# Deck Envy



## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

Yeah, I suffered deck envy like no-one's business! Then, I was inspired! 

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/...ruction/Deck/?action=view&current=BigDeck.mp4




More to come!

Mac


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## liquid6 (Feb 15, 2011)

Nice laugh.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

This is what I started with last year. Overall our deck was a small 12X10 but the usable dimensions put it closer to 9X10, not very large for a family of four with a grill and a smoker! 

Last year I had decided to move the smoker to the concrete pad outside the basement door and while on my way down the stairs one of them gave way and down I went! There was some minor injury involved but that was, for all of us, I think, the last straw! It was time to replace the deck!

What we had.









A combination of old PT pine and cedar.









Standing at the back door looking at the deck.









Like I said, it measured 12X10 to the longest but because of the bay, we lost a lot of space!









Rotting boards...









Rotting stairs!









I never favored this kind of construction unless there is galvanized steel involved, but, alas, as you can see...









More later.


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## Ted Tolstad (Feb 20, 2011)

I have always enjoyed building decks. I will enjoy following this thread....


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## liquid6 (Feb 15, 2011)

Is that A/C compressor mounted off the ground?


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

liquid6 said:


> Is that A/C compressor mounted off the ground?


It sure is! Because we live on a slope it just made sense to keep it off the ground when it rains!


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

As with anything this big we cannot proceed without having a plan and knowing what will be required of us to make the new deck a reality. So, I headed off to the folks in charge of permits and got a packet from them that had all the info I needed to pass inspections for a safe deck. 

Once I had all that info in hand I drew up a set of plans that I would work from and submitted it all and got my permit a week later!

City info...


















My plans...


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

I should note that when my plans were reviewed the inspector came out to the house and told me that because of the distance from the house I could go no further than 12 feet and no part could be supported by a cantilever (the two bay windows qualify) so I would have to add a second beam. After discussing it with him we decided I could add one about 12 inches from the bays and that would be sufficient so, that's what you'll see in the following posts.

Mac


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## ihackwood (Sep 5, 2009)

Speaking of decks my brother is one lol

Dumb bastid has the nerve to ask me why different contractors gave him different prices

He said one guy gave him a computer printout of what it will look like

I told him to pick the one with the nicest pick up

I seen pics of his deck he posted on Facebook I'm not his friend on their anymore lol so my friend showed them to me

He's using 4x4s lmao that's what he gets for not hiring a pro 

In case your wondering I now disown my older bro lol


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

With the permits in hand and displayed as required we began our demolition of the old deck. I really thought it would take a little more effort only further proving the need for it to come down!

My helper through this whole process was my youngest son, Jake, who was 14 when we started this thing. Since keeping the help happy is the key to getting the job done, I allowed him his fun when he asked for it and it wouldn't pose any (serious) risk to either of us or the property.

With that, a few well placed front kicks and the rails were history!



























A few shots with a small sledge and the balusters that didn't give way to the kicks were gone.









The next step was the steps.  Being the thrill seeker and demolisher of stuff that he is, Jake asked if he could take care of the steps. It was at this point I counted my blessings! One shot from a skinny 14 year old armed with an 8 pound sledge and the stairs fell!









I looked around the shop and realized I was missing a vital tool for the job so we went over to Sears and grabbed the special tool! What a goober!









You know, we walked on this deck and many of the boards were pretty loose but I gotta tell ya, these things didn't give up without a fight!


















More to come...


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

As we continued removing the deck boards the whole frame became more and more unstable forcing us to remove the remaining deck boards from underneath. When we had them all stripped off the whole frame started leaning left and so I got under the rim joist to hold it up and as I lifted it slightly I realized the whole thing was suspended off the ground to include the posts! I guess they were more rotten than I suspected! 

Jake made his way over to start to remove the lag bolts from the ledger board when it all came down on its own! Again, very happy we took it down when we did!

From inside the house...


















Our deck is now a pile of scrap wood!









As we were cleaning up I decided I would take a look at why it all gave way so easily and found my answers (and a wiffle ball)! This is one of the posts that supported our tiny deck. Rotted away at the concrete I guessed!









Upon closer inspection I found out that the posts weren't ever tied to the pier blocks in any way! It truly looked as though the posts were simply set into the wet concrete! 









It was never a matter of if, but when it was going to come crashing down!

Here's Jake clowning around a bit but little did he know he was standing over the rest of the problem!









More on that later!

Mac


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## Ted Tolstad (Feb 20, 2011)

Wow! You had some serious rot going on there. Glad you took it down before it took you down....


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

The next step for us, of course, had to be repairing the rim joist issue we uncovered. When the house was built it was done so without the deck so there was only the plastic vapor barrier under the siding. The deck was later added by the homeowner and was obviously done so without any inspections since the city engineer told me that attaching the deck to the cantilever would never have passed inspection. So for a little more than 20 years the water just worked at the untreated wood until it was nearly gone. 









There was also some rot to the plywood under the bay so we cut out the affected wood plus a little extra and replaced it. Thankfully the rot was limited to the rim joist and the exterior sheathing. The joists themselves were solid.









While I had it all apart I figured I'd go ahead and replace a small section of the sub-floor as well since it also appeared to have been wet though not as bad as the sheathing or the rim joist. A new 2X8 piece of PT pine, some galvanized nails and some Liquid Nails and we were ready to move to the next phase.









I added a new threshold and later we also replaced the door, frame and brick mold.









Lastly we put the lower sub-sill back in place (also replaced later with a new piece) and caulked the entire area to prevent further damage.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

With the old deck on the ground and the repairs made to the house we loaded up the pickup and headed off to Lowe's.

A proud young lad standing over his handiwork! Time for cleanup son!









At the local Lowe's we ordered all the lumber we would need to build the frame and the put on the decking and set delivery for the next day. We waited on the material for the rails until my wife could figure out how she wanted them to look.

This was us taking a break!









With our trip to the local Lowe's complete, Jake and I headed back to the house to start measuring everything out for the new posts to support the beams. Four feet from the house and fourteen feet from the house and each post was eleven feet apart.

With everything marked (all utilities had been located and marked the same day we posted our permit) and ready, Jake begged for the post hole digger so he could break ground first! By all means, Son, have at it!

Mind you, we have eight holes to gig and each one has to be a minimum ten inches in diameter and thirty inches in depth. It took about 45 minutes for Jake to get all but worn out and nowhere near where he needed to be in depth or diameter! "There has to be a better way, Dad," he gasped. I had already secured a two man auger for the day and it just wasn't yet time to pick it up! I know, I know!

Somewhere along the line I lost the pictures my wife took of us making the holes so...

Here's Jake digging a hole; he was all smiles when he started but ended up not liking it!









We then went and picked up the auger and had our holes done in no time!









Here's Jake playing with the auger (okay, not really)...









And finally, me, taking the cement to the holes, installing the bolts and watching it dry!


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

In my last post I forgot to mention that we did have a brief period of time to wait before we could fill the holes as the building inspector had to come check the holes first which he did and we were good.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

$1500 worth of PT lumber doesn't look like a lot!









Our next step was to prep the house for the new 2X12 ledger boards. I went to the garage and tried to find something that would cut the vinyl siding with some relative ease and found nothing! 









I have plenty of saws and snips and such but nothing that would leave a straight line and not look like a six year old cut it so I went to Sears and looked around until I spotted their multi-tool! Since I was still a member of their tool testing program I still had some money left over from my last test budget and picked up the muti-tool, a new cordless reciprocating saw, a cordless drill and a new circular saw since I knew my old one wouldn't last through the project.



















Here's Jake after making the first cuts on the siding with the multi-tool. Good, clean, straight cuts! I was impressed!



























Next up was getting the ledger boards cut and secured with lag screws.









Yes, we did flash under the siding and down over the rim joists and then over the new ledger to prevent water from getting between the rim joist and ledger.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

With all the ledger boards up and ready it was time for us to plant the posts and measure and cut the saddles for the beams.

We measured the posts using a borrowed laser level. I was really worried about seeing the line in the daylight what with my aging eyes and all, but when I put on the red lenses I was very happy to find the lines to make my cuts (one for the saddle and one for overall height of the posts)! With our lines marked, Jake and I set out to topping the posts and creating saddles!

Jake topping the first post.


















First saddle cut...









Next post (I remember when I could go shirtless and not scare people and little animals...).









I did have my turn with the reciprocating saw...









And Jake wanted no part of the circular saw cuts to finish the saddles (watch out folks, action shots!  )!


















I then tested what the stain would look like on the PT wood and got the okay from the better 9/10ths!

This is Olympic Redwood Naturaltone stain...



























Next up will be the beams.


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## liquid6 (Feb 15, 2011)

Looking good. Awesome that you got your son involved.

I remember that I used to hate doing stuff around my parents house, but now it is kinda nice being able to look back and see what my dad and I accomplished together...like a complete bathroom remodel last summer.

Love the progress shots! Keep it going!


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

Once all the posts were in position we moved on to the beams. Since the deck was going to be very large I figured the beams ought to be as well so, with the blessing of the city I made my beams using two 2X12 boards bolted together. To get it all going we first measured the distance between the posts and cut the boards accordingly. Yes, I measured twice!  We then placed the first board in the saddle and clamped it to the post so we could drill a 1/2 inch hole through the post and beam. We then pushed a 1/2 inch galvanized bolt in to hold each end just to hold it in place while we lifted the second board in place. We then finished drilling all the holes and secured each section as we went along. When it was all completed we then added through bolts mid-span of each section to hold it all together.









Jake practicing his close-up shots...









I was a tad off in my measurements and placement of the posts furthest from the house, but not enough to worry about!









This row was pretty good.









Starting to get an idea as to how big this thing is going to be!









Next up...wait for it...joists!


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Man, you're off to a great start! Though I was starting to wonder; you kept talking in terms of "we" but the only one we saw doing any work was your son. But then you appeared in the photo stream and proved that you are really helping!

Heh, I'm just teasing you. That sure looks like a lot of work. You're lucky to have a son who's willing to be a part of the process. You will both have something to be very proud of. A father/son project that will be used every day for many many years. 

I'm glued to this now. I can't wait to see future progress.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> Man, you're off to a great start! Though I was starting to wonder; you kept talking in terms of "we" but the only one we saw doing any work was your son. But then you appeared in the photo stream and proved that you are really helping!
> 
> Heh, I'm just teasing you. That sure looks like a lot of work. You're lucky to have a son who's willing to be a part of the process. You will both have something to be very proud of. A father/son project that will be used every day for many many years.
> 
> I'm glued to this now. I can't wait to see future progress.


No worries! My wife said the same thing when she saw all the pictures! Either way, there's no way I could have ever completed this without Jake's help! My youngest daughter also got involved and you'll see her contributions later.

Mac


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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Looking great, Mac. And BIG too. And I love the action illustrations! Now you look like you know what you're doing, so forgive if I'm telling you something you already know. When you do the railings, make sure you leave space under them so that you can sweep the deck off. It makes it so much easier than having all the crap you're sweeping running into the balusters. I'll be watching.
--Matt


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

haugerm said:


> Looking great, Mac. And BIG too. And I love the action illustrations! Now you look like you know what you're doing, so forgive if I'm telling you something you already know. When you do the railings, make sure you leave space under them so that you can sweep the deck off. It makes it so much easier than having all the crap you're sweeping running into the balusters. I'll be watching.
> --Matt


Thanks Matt! As for the railings...well, they're already up on most of the deck already!

Mac


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

Joists. Joist, joists, joists! You say it enough times and it sounds kinda dumb. Joists. 

joist -any of a number of small, parallel beams of timber, steel, reinforced concrete, etc., for supporting floors, ceilings, or the like. 

With the posts and beams set, bolted, leveled, topped, saddled and protected (sounds like hash browns from the Waffle House) it is time to start the joist hoist! Mind you, it is a little better than six feet to the top of the beams and my joists are 2X10X16 so hoist is the perfect word here! 

For us, the book said we could use a 16" on center spacing for our joists since we were using 5/4" decking so that’s what we’re going to do for spacing. Now, I could have taken my tape and marked the tops of the beams every 16" and that certainly would have ensured we had the right spacing, or, I could make a pair of spacers and then just push each one against it and the board before it and be guaranteed even spacing all the way down! So, that’s what I did! Only one problem…when I set the first two in place at 16” on center and measured the distance between and then transferred that number to my scrap wood I somehow missed an inch and ended up with my joists at about 15” on center. The good news is, I had enough joists! 

With the end board in place and secured to the ledger board with a joist hanger and the other end toe-nailed in place we began setting the boards in place and setting the distance between them with a short spacer.









There was no way on God’s green Earth that Jake was going to make his poor old dad have to get up on the ladder and fuss with nailing all those boards in place, noooo!









And, so it was for the next several hours.


















Jake was having his fun with his new best friend, "Palmer", while he worked.









We, of course, used joist hangers at the ledger...









But I tell ya, these hangers at an angle are by no means cheap and are special order from Lowe's and HD! I could have ordered them from Lowe's or HD but neither could give me a firm delivery date so I found some at the local Chic (County Home Improvement Center) for $12 a piece! Ouch!









At the other end we used hurricane ties. While they weren't required by the city I was sure glad we used them! Not long after we had all this done we had a small micro-burst hit and while the neighbors lost a part of their deck and a couple of trees and such, our deck never moved!









Lots of joists, hangers, ties and nails!



























We were both proud of his hard work!


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Awesome. You guys are whipping this out pretty swiftly. Looking great.

"Palmer" is a cute little fella'!


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

We continued until all the joists were in place! When we got to the end where the A/C compressor is we pushed the deck forward to go around it. We simply added a 2X10 and braced it and then continued as we had before. Our plan was to build this around the compressor and build a fence up around the two sides to help block some of the noise but this summer the motor went out in the air handler so we'll be replacing the whole system this fall and that happens. 




























So, now that all the joists are done we are left with an uneven bunch of boards due to the two bays. I measured out the two foot overhang and marked it with a chalk line and then transferred that line to the vertical to make my cuts. Once again, Jake wanted not part of the circular saw!

They are much straighter than this picture depicts.


















A friend of Jake's, Cameron, came by to help as did my youngest daughter, Kennedy. 









As you can see, Kennedy's first job was to pick up the nails she dropped everywhere! Thank God for magnets!









Even Grace came out to check things out!


















Now we really get a good look at how big this thing is!


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

Looks great.


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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Looking great, and (more importantly) sturdy!
--Matt


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

So we could work in relative comfort and not have to do the up/down thing all day, we brought some decking boards up to create a work area so we could start screwing down the decking!









At this point I have to say that I was concerned about my two cordless drills having the moxy to complete the task at hand. The B&D has been with me for a few years already and the Craftsman just seemed too light to go the distance. That said, we ran with them and kept the corded drill in the wings...just in case.









The other tool we needed, of course, was my trusty CL chop saw!









And...we were off! We are using 3" deck screws made for PT lumber and we used tw screws at every joist. Now you know why I was worried about my drills! As it turned out, all that worry was in vain! Both tool performed flawlessly!









Grace was checking our progress.









We spent a couple of days on the decking...


















My wife said she could show movies on my butt. That was mean of her.


















I forgot the sunscreen!









And I apparently started to go bald during this project! :blink:


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

Jake screwing ion the last deck board.









Now it is time to even it all out!


















All decked out and we're ready to relax on the new furniture my wife bought!


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## jaydawg74 (Nov 24, 2011)

Lookin good! Nice looking boxer you have there! I love seeing father/son projects!

Couple things that stand out to me.....
1. I see you nailed in your front rim joist. You should definitely think about reinforcing that. Use some L brackets screwed in where the joist meets the rim. Reason being that when you put your posts and railing up, there will be force against those nails, especially with people leaning on it etc, and they will pull out causing your entire rim joist/railing to fall to the ground!

2. Be sure to not enclose your a/c condenser. That puppy has got to have plenty of room around it for good air flow. Also, take your garden hose (with no pressure, just use a soft flow) and rinse off all of the dirt and debris from the fins and coils. My brother has an HVAC license and is always getting on me about mine lol!

3. I have 2 of those Craftsmen cordless drills. They're great aren't they! I've built a few decks with them. Batteries last quite a while on the drills, but not so much on my saws (recip and trim/circular)!


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## liquid6 (Feb 15, 2011)

Yep; definitely have deck envy. Looking good.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

jaydawg74 said:


> Lookin good! Nice looking boxer you have there! I love seeing father/son projects!


Thanks!

Couple things that stand out to me.....


jaydawg74 said:


> 1. I see you nailed in your front rim joist. You should definitely think about reinforcing that. Use some L brackets screwed in where the joist meets the rim. Reason being that when you put your posts and railing up, there will be force against those nails, especially with people leaning on it etc, and they will pull out causing your entire rim joist/railing to fall to the ground!


Already ahead of you on that one! We added screws through the outer rim joist into the main joists and added L-brackets!



jaydawg74 said:


> 2. Be sure to not enclose your a/c condenser. That puppy has got to have plenty of room around it for good air flow. Also, take your garden hose (with no pressure, just use a soft flow) and rinse off all of the dirt and debris from the fins and coils. My brother has an HVAC license and is always getting on me about mine lol!


The whole system is being replaced in the fall and the new compressor will be located to the side wall where it will be much quieter! Already in the works!



jaydawg74 said:


> 3. I have 2 of those Craftsmen cordless drills. They're great aren't they! I've built a few decks with them. Batteries last quite a while on the drills, but not so much on my saws (recip and trim/circular)!


It has been a serious workhorse!


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

The next step we took was to cut and add the posts that would eventually be a part of the rail system (you can see them in the roof pics) and then it happened! I lost my job! 

That's right, folks! Well, technically speaking, I didn't really lose my job, I know right where it is...Brno, Czech Republic. It seems as though the fine folks at AT&T were far more concerned with getting their annual bonuses that it didn't really matter who got screwed in the process and, since I was nothing but a contractor, my job was first to be cut. C'est la vie, no?

Now, now, don't cry for me, Argentina! I did find another job...in another state. Yup, I found a higher paying job in So. Illinois (Harrisburg to be exact)! The only problem is, I have to take that additional income and convert it into a place to live since my wife and kids are still up in St Peters! My kids are in a great school and pulling them out at this point just makes no sense, so...

While we're at it, let's just add some insult to injury, shall we? We had a pretty decent hail storm run through and tore up our roof and because the roof was as old as the house I had to come up with the difference to get a new one and then the A/C went out on us and we repaired it to get us through the summer and then we'll replace it in the fall. 

New roof...that much money for less than eight hours work! I'm in the wrong business!



























I still go home on the weekends and, as the budget permits, keep plugging away at it and you'll see that next.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Aw man, that sucks about the job loss. Then the hail damage on top of it. When it rains it pours. Keep your head up, buddy. It'll all work out for you. Let us know how the new job pans out.

Good luck to you.

P.S., You're giving ME deck envy!


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

While not the ideal situation (we hate being apart from each other) we're making the best of it. God is in control, not Mac!


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

That brings us pretty much to where we are today. I have most of the rails up, though not capped and we are working on it as we can between the this and the that.

Once again, with my great set of helping hands, we got back to work! It was time to put up some rails so we wouldn't fall off and hurt ourselves!
We basically cut two pieces of 2X4 to fit between the posts, found the center and then measured 4.5" on center for the plastic baluster connectors for the aluminum balusters my wife chose. 



























We then attached it with three screws at each point...









And then capped it with a 5/4 deck board.









My wife was wondering how I was going to treat the corners and when she saw what I did she was quite happy with the results. That would be Jake's foot in the picture...



























Just as a reminder, here is what it was...









And here is where we are today, mole damage to the lawn and everything!


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## GROOVY (Apr 27, 2008)

*American* Telephone and Telegraph? hrumpgh . sorry about the run of crappy luck and corporate greed, but the deck looks great. I also like that your son is spending quality time with you.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Awesome!!!


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## gstanfield (Dec 23, 2011)

Deck is looking great! 

I do have a question about that palm nailer, I've seen those in the stores, but never used one. Do they really work all that good?


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

George, if I had to try and swing my 22 ounce framing hammer on every nail we put into this thing I'd have never made it this far! Having the portable compressor with the palm nailer and impact gun made all the difference in the world. This is especially true since I have a mild case of RA in my hands. "Palmer" has paid for himself on this project and again in our basement rehab! I think I paid $25 for the kit from HF and it has a magnetic tip and can be set to countersink nails if you want.


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## gstanfield (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, maybe I'll pick one up today while I'm in town just to try out myself


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## liquid6 (Feb 15, 2011)

Mr Mac said:


> George, if I had to try and swing my 22 ounce framing hammer on every nail we put into this thing I'd have never made it this far! Having the portable compressor with the palm nailer and impact gun made all the difference in the world. This is especially true since I have a mild case of RA in my hands. "Palmer" has paid for himself on this project and again in our basement rehab! I think I paid $25 for the kit from HF and it has a magnetic tip and can be set to countersink nails if you want.


I complete feel your pain Mac. I volunteer for Habitat for Humanity down here (roofing supervisor) and I had a 18oz hammer. Once I heard about Stiletto tools, the 18oz went bye bye. I know have a 14oz Titanium 18" curved hickory handled hammer. Weighs just under a pound and hits like a 28oz hammer...it is a must get! http://www.stiletto.com/p-56-16-oz-titanium-milled-face-curved-18-framer.aspx


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