# Sanding sealer



## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I am wondering if I need to look into this stuff. What the heck does it do anyway? 

I am familiar with automotive sealers and I assume this does the same thing but I'd like more insight into what it does, when to put it on etc. Thanks


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Sanding sealer basically is a clear primer. It’s made to be easy to sand and builds thickness quicker. Automotive sealer is a little different. It is a barrier coat which lets you make a transition between two different finishes that are not completely compatible. For example if you had a lacquer primer on a car and you wanted to put a urethane over it the urethane wouldn't adhere properly. If the lacquer primer had a coat of sealer on it the urethane would adhere.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Sanding sealer is basically the same as your finish with stearates added to make it powder up nicely when you sand it. You can just as easily seal with a thin coat of whatever finish you are using.


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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

Sanding sealer makes sanding easier, gives a protection to whats beneath it and it seals! I use it to seal the wood grain, I apply 3 coats and sand it until i don't feel the wood grain by my finger tips. 
There are 2 types of sanding sealer that i know NC sanding sealer and urethane sanding sealer, NC sanding sealer is cheaper, very fast drying and should be mixed with NC or lacquer thinner, indoor usage only and it will slightly change your finish stain color because its transparent yellowish. On the other hand urethane sealers are more expensive, its a system so you will need a urethane thinner and a hardener to mix with. And its better to apply it with a spray gun, it can be use for indoor and outdoor, and it wont change your finish color because its transparent.
Both sealers NC and urethane will end up in a flat finish so you will need to lay a clear coat of your choice as a final.
Really good stuff, i love it.


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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

Ooh forgot about the process,

You stain first, seal and sand after it drys and clear coat as final.


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

This is timely so I will ask now we know what Sanding Sealer is. What is a " Wood Conditioner : and is it different to a Sanding Sealer.

I have used Sanding Sealer but was advised to use a Wood Conditioner on a project coming up. Is it the same or different.

Pete


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Wood conditioner is different then sanding sealer. There are many different products that serve the purpose of wood conditioner. You can even thin linseed oil for this. There are many different kinds of wood that have very hard spots and very soft spots. When you stain these woods the soft part of the board soaks up the stain like a sponge where the hard parts don't. This is what is referred to as blotchy. A wood conditioner is a very thin sealer that the soft parts of the board soak up more of it then the hard parts. When dry the board is much more uniform in density so when you stain it, it stains more uniform because the soft wood is sealed. A sanding sealer is the same as the topcoat with the exception it has had stearates added to it to make it soft and easy to sand. It seals the wood and at the same time builds the emulation which is sanded between coats to level the finish. Once leveled then the harder topcoat is applied.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> A sanding sealer is the same as the topcoat with the exception it has had *separates* added to it to make it soft and easy to sand.


Maybe you read Rick's post incorrectly. What is added is stearates.









 





 
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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

Sealers and conditioners a totally different products as Steve described. I think what got Star confused that some people use sealers as a conditioner, they seal the wood first and sand it, after that they use NC wood stain applied by a spray gun, and finally a clear coat. So by sealing first, the stain will lay uniformly, it wont blotch because it wont contact the wood at all. But i don't recommend doing this because it wont last long, sooner or later the stain will peal of the sealer. Any way if you are going to do that, only NC wood stain will work with it, oil and water stains will not adhere to sealers.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Maybe you read Rick's post incorrectly. What is added is stearates.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I often use word to spell check and I guess I let it change the word altogether. I did mean stearates.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Rashed said:


> Sealers and conditioners a totally different products as Steve described. I think what got Star confused that some people use sealers as a conditioner, they seal the wood first and sand it, after that they use NC wood stain applied by a spray gun, and finally a clear coat. So by sealing first, the stain will lay uniformly, it wont blotch because it wont contact the wood at all. But i don't recommend doing this because it wont last long, sooner or later the stain will peal of the sealer. Any way if you are going to do that, only NC wood stain will work with it, oil and water stains will not adhere to sealers.


Here is an example of what you are describing. I have it in my shop to be touched up. The chair was totally sealed to a natural color. Then it has either a lacquer or gel stain applied over it and clear coated. In 10 years of normal use the customer has rubbed the color off the arms of the chair.


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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

Its good that it did hold for 10 years. This is a picture of a door in my house, 5 years only and you can scratch it by fingers. This is cheating a finish.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Rashed said:


> Its good that it did hold for 10 years. This is a picture of a door in my house, 5 years only and you can scratch it by fingers. This is cheating a finish.


 In your case the finish is failing. It could be touched up however it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble since the rest of the finish is soon to come off. 
For whatever reason the stain didn't bond very good to the sealer and its just taking the topcoat off with it. Is it a cabinet door or your entry door. A finish will fail quicker in the direct sun.


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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

Its a room door, I think the stain that the carpenter used was so cheap, that why it didn't last long on the sealer.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If it were me I would just strip the door and refinish it with a conventional stain. This could be done over a weekend and you could be done with it for many years.


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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

I am thinking about refinishing my main door first, and i'll do the rest later!


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

You can use sanding sealer as a wood conditioner, the trick though is to thin it way down so that the stain still penetrates the wood (or you get adhesion problems like in the pictures above). All you want to do is restrict the absorbtion of the softer wood which is what causes it to blotch in the first place. How much do I thin it you ask? You do samples to find out. The answer is never the same. It depends on the color and whether there is a glaze or toner being done on top also. When learning, I have people do a 4' strip of wood and every 6" put a 2" strip of tape. Starting with 2 parts thinner to 1 part sanding sealer go all the way to 20 parts thinner to 1 part sanding sealer. Take off the tape then wipe stain on the entire board. You will see exactly what happens when you use different dilutions of thinner to sealer.


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## imdskydiver (Apr 26, 2012)

Rashed said:


> Its a room door, I think the stain that the carpenter used was so cheap, that why it didn't last long on the sealer.


Maybe it was because the stain and sealer were incompatible products ,


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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

Sorry i wasn't around guy's, i was in a vacation.

yes sky driver maybe it is.

Any way, I want to refinish my main door but it has a real thick layer of sanding sealer, what is the best way to strip it down? With out damaging the door. Its a solid oak door with a couple of MDF veneered panels.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

...and sanding sealer is different still from grain filler? Sounds like it might perform a similar function.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ChiknNutz said:


> ...and sanding sealer is different still from grain filler? Sounds like it might perform a similar function.


If you would look at woods like oak, walnut and mahogany microscopically they have voids and crevasses in the grain. Grain filler works kind of like drywall mud that spackles the voids in the grain. Sanding sealer is just a clear coating which is formulated to be easy to sand like primers. You can fill the grain voids with sanding sealer, sanding between coats but it might take a half dozen or more coats to do the job. It would just take a lot more expense and labor to fill the grain with sealers and sealers are made soft so you don't really want to build a thickness of sealer under your topcoat. Since you are familiar with painting cars, it would be like accumulating six coats of primer on a car and then topcoating it. The finish just wouldn't wear as well.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*NC sanding sealer description PDF*

http://www.maspaints.com/technical_datas/nitrocellulose/nc_sealer_018.pdf

High Build Primer
http://pacificsouthwest.net/assets/docs/TDS_DTM_1300SeriesHighBuildPrimer.pdf

http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/sherwin-williams-high-build-primer-questions-101144/


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

I used some grain filler on the oak kitchen island I am building. Not having used either before, it almost sounded like they might overlap a bit in use.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

While they may be helpful, I could post some links for you, but that you could do for yourself. It wouldn't give you the perspective of the differences. It would be like saying, a Porsche Turbo and a Volkswagon Golf are both German cars and have motors and four wheels, they are similar. Reading the specifications of both, you would have to be familiar with the technical data to understand how the two cars are different. 

You would have to sift through their engine, drivetrain, and suspension details, along with test results of driving dynamics, and performance, along with their ergonomics. Explaining the differences can be more graphic and understood by someone that has had or driven both vehicles.

The differences between a sealer and a grain filler is indicative of their names. A sealer is intended to do just that. A grain filler can do that to an extent, but is more appropriate for filling up the holes of the pores, and leveling out the variations and deviations in the grain.

A sealer can be a media like a film finish topcoat, with or without additives, thinned or not, applied to the wood. It's intended to limit or control the absorption properties of the wood.

A grain filler (AKA paste wood filler), is usually a much thicker viscosity...used with the consistency of mayonnaise (more or less). It's a fill/leveler. Using it can limit how much sealer and topcoat may be needed. It can produce a different feel to the wood surface, as would a sealer, but a sealer would require many applications. 









 







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## Rashed (Oct 15, 2012)

Guys please,no body did answer me yet, whats the best way to strip the sealer off? Sanding it or paint stripper?


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