# Walnut Slab - Am I Doing It Right?



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm a newbie to wood working. I've done a couple refinishing projects using walnut that look okay. For the past two years I've been on again / off again looking for large slab of black walnut to use as a dining room table. Recently I found a gorgeous slab that I couldn't refuse to buy. As you can see by the photo taken when I bought it, it is highly figured and has a lot of curl. In my estimation - it's stunning and I'm starting to get nervous that I won't do it justice.









This is where I need help. I've been doing a lot of reading and want to run my ideas by you experts so that I don't screw this up. I want to bring all the beauty out of the wood, keep it's color and have a grainless and easy to maintain finish.

I've started on the bottom side and am working with some walnut scraps to try out different finishes and techniques.

1. The bottom had heavy saw checking and hadn't been planed like the top. I sanded out the checking with my belt sander. 
2. After belt sanding, I used a Bosch 1/2 sheet sander starting with 60 grit, 80, 100, 150, 180, and 220. I hand sanded again with 220 and 320.
3. I'm about to use Waterlox Original formula as wash coat.
4. A layer(s) of Crystalac Grain Filler 
5. Three or more coats of Waterlox.
6. Flip it over and start to work refinishing the presentation (top) side.

When it comes to working on the top I plan on filling the voids with epoxy and sanding them flat. The top has some planer checking that needs to be taken out and some areas that need to be flattened.

Should I hand scrape versus sand? Is this something a newbie should even try doing or will I run the risk of ruining the wood? Should I get and use a Veritas Scraping Planer instead?

All advice appreciated.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

What's saw and planer checking. 
And post pic again. I got no pic. Hurry.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

For some reason the link for the photo in my gallery is not working. Not sure how to fix it.

Saw and planer checking is where each leaves marks in the wood. The saw checking on the bottom side was pretty heavy. The marks from the planer aren't too bad.


----------



## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Hitch a ride with the other guy to the Planer. Oh yeah it's to far

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

MastersHand said:


> Hitch a ride with the other guy to the Planer. Oh yeah it's to far
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


Lol bahaaaa hahahahaha heeheeheeeheehee Ohhohohohohoho


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> For some reason the link for the photo in my gallery is not working. Not sure how to fix it.
> 
> Saw and planer checking is where each leaves marks in the wood. The saw checking on the bottom side was pretty heavy. The marks from the planer aren't too bad.


I think your referring planer checks, as snipe and saw check from the saw kerf. Get pics fast.zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Dominick said:


> I think your referring planer checks, as snipe and saw check from the saw kerf. Get pics fast.zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Thanks. As I said - I'm a newb to all of this.


----------



## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

I certainly am no self appointed expert so I'm speaking only in terms of what I think will give good results.
Stay with a "system" start to finish on all projects. System means useing only products made by and/or reccomended by a single manufacture. You are asking for trouble useing the Crystalac. I have good results after going through grits as you are doing then appling the waterlox with wet/dry 400 1st coat then 600 2nd coat and continueing grits and coats as long as I gain "pop" in the wood grain. That fills the grain and is almost as fool proof as it gets. You might also give thought to filling knot holes with glue and saw dust,epoxey is veereey hard to sand out.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bentwood said:


> I certainly am no self appointed expert so I'm speaking only in terms of what I think will give good results.
> Stay with a "system" start to finish on all projects. System means useing only products made by and/or reccomended by a single manufacture. You are asking for trouble useing the Crystalac. I have good results after going through grits as you are doing then appling the waterlox with wet/dry 400 1st coat then 600 2nd coat and continueing grits and coats as long as I gain "pop" in the wood grain. That fills the grain and is almost as fool proof as it gets. You might also give thought to filling knot holes with glue and saw dust,epoxey is veereey hard to sand out.


Did you forget that he's a newbie?


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Bentwood - I know it's subjective, but any idea how many coats I might be looking at doing with the Waterlox?

I've filled holes with clear epoxy in two other thinner pieces of walnut with good results. I would prefer these holes and inclusions to go black rather than to try to blend them in. Some of the holes go all the way through the wood, so I'm planning on doing the epoxy in stages and allow each stage to cure for at least 24 hours.


----------



## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

bentwood said:


> I certainly am no self appointed expert so I'm speaking only in terms of what I think will give good results.
> Stay with a "system" start to finish on all projects. System means useing only products made by and/or reccomended by a single manufacture. You are asking for trouble useing the Crystalac. I have good results after going through grits as you are doing then appling the waterlox with wet/dry 400 1st coat then 600 2nd coat and continueing grits and coats as long as I gain "pop" in the wood grain. That fills the grain and is almost as fool proof as it gets. You might also give thought to filling knot holes with glue and saw dust,epoxey is veereey hard to sand out.


You might also give thought to filling knot holes with glue and saw dust,epoxey is veereey hard to sand out.

Don't Worry he has a System

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


----------



## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Did you forget that he's a newbie?


Not at all. I can't emagine a simplir method that comes close to what I suggested but I'm open to hear your method and what step you think he can't handle and why.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I agree with MH


----------



## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

bentwood said:


> Not at all. I can't emagine a simplir method that comes close to what I suggested but I'm open to hear your method and what step you think he can't handle and why.


You told the guy it was system not a method Now he is all Confused what is wrong with you he's new

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bentwood said:


> Not at all. I can't emagine a simplir method that comes close to what I suggested but I'm open to hear your method and what step you think he can't handle and why.


I need to see a pic. I like rustic stuff so for me I like all the defects that he's describing. It also depends on the abuse the table will get. A lot of entertaining, hot plates, spills,sunlight, bla,bla bla.


----------



## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

JB97031 said:


> Bentwood - I know it's subjective, but any idea how many coats I might be looking at doing with the Waterlox?
> 
> I've filled holes with clear epoxy in two other thinner pieces of walnut with good results. I would prefer these holes and inclusions to go black rather than to try to blend them in. Some of the holes go all the way through the wood, so I'm planning on doing the epoxy in stages and allow each stage to cure for at least 24 hours.


3 coats will atain 90% of what can be acomplished. Each coat shows much less change than the previous. The wood will also reach a saturation point. That's why it was left ambigous as to how long I would stay with it. A great feature of the oil you have choosen is that a coat can be put on in one month or ten years later without any pre-prep outside of wiping dirt off first.
It sounds like you are comfortable with the epoxy,in that case,that is the best filler to use.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Don't fill it.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Dominick said:


> I need to see a pic. I like rustic stuff so for me I like all the defects that he's describing. It also depends on the abuse the table will get. A lot of entertaining, hot plates, spills,sunlight, bla,bla bla.


You should be able to see the photo now in my first post. This table is going to be used daily as a place for dinner and home work with the kids. Our decor / style is rocky mountain themed so the rustic aspect is desirable. The live edges will be kept and the crack in the center will be left alone. The thing that I really want to show off is the marbling and curl in the wood.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Still no pic.


----------



## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Dominick said:


> Don't fill it.


Yeah Fill it up its a long Ride to the Planer

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Use behlins rock hard tabletop finish varnish.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

bentwood said:


> 3 coats will atain 90% of what can be acomplished. Each coat shows much less change than the previous. The wood will also reach a saturation point. That's why it was left ambigous as to how long I would stay with it.


I've done four coats with the Waterlox on a test piece that was sanded like the slab. I can still see the grain emerging through the fourth coat rather distinctly. I'm trying to get a smooth finish so that it doesn't take the eye away from what's going on with the wood. 

Am I being overly critical here?


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Use behlins rock hard tabletop finish varnish.


When I get scratches in the finish, can this be fixed easily? My office desks that are three years old and were done in poly - look terrible and have to be stripped and redone. Kind of want something I can just touch up for this table.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> I've done four coats with the Waterlox on a test piece that was sanded like the slab. I can still see the grain emerging through the fourth coat rather distinctly. I'm trying to get a smooth finish so that it doesn't take the eye away from what's going on with the wood.
> 
> Am I being overly critical here?


Waterlox isn't as durable as behlins rockhard table top varnish. You could rub a coat or two of Danish oil then do the top coat. 

View attachment 38717


7 coats of varnish.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> When I get scratches in the finish, can this be fixed easily? My office desks that are three years old and were done in poly - look terrible and have to be stripped and redone. Kind of want something I can just touch up for this table.


Then you need glass.


----------



## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm unsure what you are seeing that is objectable. If you sanded through 320 as you stated,it should be smooth at this point
You are using Waterlox without added color in it?
BTW,Don't waste time trying to repost the picture. It has be there all along. It looks like a slab from the root to trunk area,or where the trunk splits into two trunks.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bentwood said:


> I'm unsure what you are seeing that is objectable. If you sanded through 320 as you stated,it should be smooth at this point
> You are using Waterlox without added color in it?
> BTW,Don't waste time trying to repost the picture. It has be there all along. It looks like a slab from the root to trunk area,or where the trunk splits into two trunks.


I'm not seeing the pics. This is not fair.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I'm seeing your pic now. That's beautiful. 
Whatever finish you do it's up to you. 
I would put bow ties in that check on the top for sure. Nice slab. Send to me and I'll do the bow tie inlays for you.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

bentwood said:


> I'm unsure what you are seeing that is objectable. If you sanded through 320 as you stated,it should be smooth at this point
> You are using Waterlox without added color in it?
> BTW,Don't waste time trying to repost the picture. It has be there all along. It looks like a slab from the root to trunk area,or where the trunk splits into two trunks.


Just using the original formula which I like what it's doing on the test pieces - color wise. I'll take a shot and post it on monday of what it looks like with coat #5. I did a light sand on the fourth coat with 400 so I'll need to re-coat it. 

Dominick - I can get the Behlins easily, so I'll do a test with it tomorrow. Thanks


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> Just using the original formula which I like what it's doing on the test pieces - color wise. I'll take a shot and post it on monday of what it looks like with coat #5. I did a light sand on the fourth coat with 400 so I'll need to re-coat it.
> 
> Dominick - I can get the Behlins easily, so I'll do a test with it tomorrow. Thanks


It's expensive. Make sure you get the reducer. The varnish is thick like syrup. Post pics.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Good luck.


----------



## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

JB97031 said:


> I've done four coats with the Waterlox on a test piece that was sanded like the slab. I can still see the grain emerging through the fourth coat rather distinctly. I'm trying to get a smooth finish so that it doesn't take the eye away from what's going on with the wood.
> 
> Am I being overly critical here?


I think somthing was lost in the shuffle. 
It will look much different with 4 coats applied while sanding.
Unlike poly where you sand between coats,you apply oil while wet sanding and no sanding between coats.
After dry sanding through 320 , pour oil on wood then spread and rub it into the wood with 400 wet/dry paper. Keep surface wet while sanding so a slury forms. The slury fills grain. After oil has dried some,wipe the slury away and alow to fully dry before repeating with 600 and more oil. And so forth.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

bentwood said:


> I think somthing was lost in the shuffle.
> It will look much different with 4 coats applied while sanding.
> Unlike poly where you sand between coats,you apply oil while wet sanding and no sanding between coats.
> After dry sanding through 320 , pour oil on wood then spread and rub it into the wood with 400 wet/dry paper.  Keep surface wet while sanding so a slury forms. The slury fills grain. After oil has dried some,wipe the slury away and alow to fully dry before repeating with 600 and more oil. And so forth.


This is new to me. Thanks. So I do this as a seal coat with the Waterlox or tung oil? Then apply my coats of Waterlox without sanding?


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Though i'm extremly fond of behlen's RH varnish, and of differeng oils also, if this were mine i would use neither. It sounds like it will get lots of use and maybe even some unintentional abuse [children] over time. You also state dinners [meals] and homework, etc., since ther is no kid-proof finish, i would reccomend one that is easily reversable, either bar top lacquer [nitrocellulose], or a lab grade vinyl acrylic system, for the holes i would reccomend a pour type acrylic also instead of a yellowing epoxy which in time will detract from the appearence. :yes:


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

this pour ACRYLIC IS 3/4" thick, done in 1982, still looks as good today as the day it was completed:yes:


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Picture is hard to see chemmy. Im very happy with behlins RH table top varnish. It holds up well with alcohol, spills, hot plates, and sunlight. I did mine (walnut) about 3 years ago and it held up well. With this varnish it yellows over time, which in My opinion turns walnut a rich redish hue. 
I would also like to see bowties in that top.


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Picture is hard to see chemmy. Im very happy with behlins RH table top varnish. It holds up well with alcohol, spills, hot plates, and sunlight. I did mine (walnut) about 3 years ago and it held up well. With this varnish it yellows over time, which in My opinion turns walnut a rich redish hue.
> I would also like to see bowties in that top.


I agree D, i guess you mean the pics don't show the real thickness of pour correct? sorry it's all i have. As i say i have nothing against Rh, i used it myself for decades, and i also liked its mellow yellowing but a good amber bar top lacquer does the same thing and the acrylic if amber dye is added will do it immediately. Unless your using a coating that has Uv inhibitors and HALS, walnut will age out yellowish orange all on it's own, it needs little help to do so. 

I only reccomended bar-top for ease of repair and re-doing as time passes, RH as you know is not as easy to repair as nitro lacquers are correct?


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I can't disagree with you on that one.
It sure is a beautiful slab.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the help here.

Another question to both of you: If I want to increase the "sparkly" effect (Chemmy's term from another thread for Chatoyancy) should I consider hand scraping? I read that cutting the wood offers greater visual depth and sparkly effect. :smile:


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> Thanks guys. I really appreciate the help here.
> 
> Another question to both of you: If I want to increase the "sparkly" effect (Chemmy's term from another thread for Chatoyancy) should I consider hand scraping? I read that cutting the wood offers greater visual depth and sparkly effect. :smile:


LOL :laughing:, if that's what came across, i apologize. there are only 2 ways to get "sparkly" other than having it in the wood naturally, [think fine sand or crystallized resin in certain wood species pores], in dry woods [unfinished, you also can have sparkly but it disappears once clear coats are added, [think bees-wing satinwood] 

The 2 synthesized methods are using what is called white pearl or pearl-essence, this can be put into mineral spirits or other and wiped on the wood and then with another clean rag the excess removed, i usually try to leave in just in the pores, you may also use it with a very thin retarded clear coat and let dry and then sand the surface to insure it is mainly in the pores, what you don't want is hardly any on the surface, looks fake when done that way [unnatural] experiment have fun!!

The other? if you've ever seen certain marble or stone kitchen counters usually dark green or blackish grey, you may have noticed fairly large flakes of chatoyant material the is very reflective at some angles as you walk past or around it, this is flakes of "mica" if you purchase mice and smash it up into very tiny pieces and add that to where your openings/cracks/ etc. are using your clear-coat as the adhesive with the flakes added in, it will give you somewhat the same affect in miniature, again experiment and have fun ok?:yes:


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Chemmy - thanks. This process sounds best left to an expert like yourself. Remember - I'm a complete newb and if I try something like this, my results will make me want to turn this slab into firewood.

Can I get more depth out of scraping than I can with sanding? Again please keep in mind that Me+sharp objects+beautiful slab = catastrophe. 

I have read Bob Flexner's "Finishing" book and he and place I got the slab from like dewaxed shellac as the first and second coats. They say this offers the tonal depth that I'm looking for. Thoughts?


----------



## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

JB97031 said:


> Chemmy - thanks. This process sounds best left to an expert like yourself. Remember - I'm a complete newb and if I try something like this, my results will make me want to turn this slab into firewood.
> 
> Can I get more depth out of scraping than I can with sanding? Again please keep in mind that Me+sharp objects+beautiful slab = catastrophe.
> 
> I have read Bob Flexner's "Finishing" book and he and place I got the slab from like dewaxed shellac as the first and second coats. They say this offers the tonal depth that I'm looking for. Thoughts?


 JB you need to walk away and take some deep breaths. You are way over thinking this if you read Flexner's and still looking for somthing better. Get a worthless bowed piece of material from the scrap bin and start experimenting. Tell us you are just jerking our chain with this talk of appling "sparkles"on the material in your picture. Have you ever heared the term "putting a silver saddle on a jackass"?


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bentwood said:


> JB you need to walk away and take some deep breaths. You are way over thinking this if you read Flexner's and still looking for somthing better. Get a worthless bowed piece of material from the scrap bin and start experimenting. Tell us you are just jerking our chain with this talk of appling "sparkles"on the material in your picture. Have you ever heared the term "putting a silver saddle on a jackass"?


Lol hahahahaha


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

bentwood said:


> JB you need to walk away and take some deep breaths. You are way over thinking this if you read Flexner's and still looking for somthing better. Get a worthless bowed piece of material from the scrap bin and start experimenting. Tell us you are just jerking our chain with this talk of appling "sparkles"on the material in your picture. Have you ever heared the term "putting a silver saddle on a jackass"?


LOL - now that's funny and well deserved. You are right I am way over thinking this and the more I read, the more confused I've become. Some things are best left up to the pros. 

I just want to do the best I can on this slab. Thanks to everyone for all the advice.

FWIW - the scrap with the Crystalac didn't turn out that great. Not that great a color - though the finish is smooth with one coat of Waterlox. Perhaps another couple of coats and I'll get the color I'm looking for.


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> Chemmy - thanks. This process sounds best left to an expert like yourself. Remember - I'm a complete newb and if I try something like this, my results will make me want to turn this slab into firewood.
> 
> Can I get more depth out of scraping than I can with sanding? Again please keep in mind that Me+sharp objects+beautiful slab = catastrophe.
> 
> I have read Bob Flexner's "Finishing" book and he and place I got the slab from like dewaxed shellac as the first and second coats. They say this offers the tonal depth that I'm looking for. Thoughts?


"Depth" is not a matter of being smoothly scraped or sanded or planed, etc.. Refraction gives the apperence of depth, if the refractive index [RI] is perfectly in tune with the refractive index of the wood then you will have the most what is called depth you can get no matter what coating you use. 

The "best" thing to use to do this is turpines [pure gum turpentine or canadian or other fir balsams] as a first coat application. saturate your top with this and let set 20 min. or so and then wipe any puddles off and dry. this will saturate the wood and make the visible level look very deep. next, after thurough drying, apply a very thin coat of 5% bartop lacquer to 95% lacquer thinner and apply wet [very wet but not running] allow that to sink in once again, use "gloss only!! you donot want to build layers of flatting agent up during the process, that holds true no matter what film former you choose!!

After this , film building can be done as normal till the point of build you desire is reached ok? sand every fifth coat if building many more coats than this. full cure on nitro bartop is as most others 30 days till rock hard, only then if you want it shinier use auto compounds to do so ok?

When the RI between the wood surface and first liquid is at it's best even the thinist film on a glass smooth surface or other will look as deep as it can be. Typically a french polished finish, if done correctly, is less than a quarter to half mill thick [.0025 - .0050"] but if done this way looks miles deep. 

I have nothing against shellac, it is personally my 2nd favorite fininsh and number one if no spray equipment is readily available, that said, it's RI is not as close as lacquers is or some other coatings, if that seems to go against what i say above it's only that i prefer [when possible] to use those coatings that match up better in this area, it's not a must, just a prefference ok? 

If you do use shellac make sure it is waxless zinnser sealcoat, and only use [1] coat no more and even then thin it 1 to 1 ok? let it also soak into the wood AMAP. As to "tonal depth" i have not heard that terminology before? is that their words or yours?

If theirs get back to me with their explanation of what their meaning ok?

As to sparkles, unless you've seen it done correctly, i can understand why others would frown upon it being done, i will in the future keep that knowledge to myself lol. :yes:


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Great post! This helps a lot.

Not spraying - so will cut the waxless shellac as you stated.

I just prepped a new scrap to start on tonight.

Tonal depth is a term that I use as a photographer. It's along the lines of what you wrote about in the other thread where you spoke of the peaks and valleys to describe the light and dark differences of the wood. Tonal depth is similar to that when describing a photo and the degrees of contrast between highlights and shadows. I can see I need to keep this term on my photo blog and out of the wood working forum. :laughing:

Oh - and to be clear - I never said I was going to try the sparkles. I believe that I said it was best left up to an expert like yourself.


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> Great post! This helps a lot.
> 
> Not spraying - so will cut the waxless shellac as you stated.
> 
> ...


Have fun, enjoy yourself. :thumbsup:


----------



## pwoller (Dec 12, 2010)

This is a slab I milled with my chainsaw mill. I dropped it off at a cabinet shop asked him to sand all the saw marks out, they used a door sander.? It was ther best 20 bucks I've spent in a long time. Then I went at it with my orbital sander and finished it with minwax antique oil finish. I was very happy with the finish and its very easy to use. The cracks got bowties and sawdust/glue in them, probably noteveryones cup of tea but I like the look.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

That's my cup of tea. I love this stuff. 
Did you hand cut the bow ties or do them with a router template?


----------



## pwoller (Dec 12, 2010)

Dominick said:


> That's my cup of tea. I love this stuff.
> Did you hand cut the bow ties or do them with a router template?


I cut the bowtie on a jigsaw then traced and cut them out on the walnut table with a chisel.


----------



## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

sorry i just have to stick my nose in to the op.

dont worry about making this wood fire wood. it is a beautiful slab and its thick. there is plenty of wood there if you make a mistake and need to sand it off.
relax. in hale in the calm. exhale out the fear. breath in .... breath out. now repeat after me "it's just wood... if i mess up i can start over. this is just a series of steps with practice on scraps, i can follow these guys directions and achieve my goal. there is no magic involved just patience... practice.. and pay attention to the details."
now this will turn out good. if you get antsy or any thing just breath in and out and repeat whats in the quotes.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

pwoller said:


> I cut the bowtie on a jigsaw then traced and cut them out on the walnut table with a chisel.


That's exactly how I do mine. But I router out the bulk of the bowtie. Then clean it up with a chisel. Thumbs up.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Pwoller and Dominick - you make the bowties sound easy enough to do. I'll give this a try on some scrap.

Carpenter - spot on. The wife says that we don't need this completed until mid June when we have a formal event. This gives me plenty of time to walk away when frustrated. Advice well taken.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

They are easy. The more you do the better it is. Something like those are easy, but don't be fooled by what I say. Doing custom inlays can and are tricky. Inlays that big couger does are very intricate and time consuming. That's beyond my capabilities. Good luck.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Dominick said:


> They are easy. The more you do the better it is. Something like those are easy, but don't be fooled by what I say. Doing custom inlays can and are tricky. Inlays that big couger does are very intricate and time consuming. That's beyond my capabilities. Good luck.


Question: How thick would you make the bowties considering this slab is 3" thick?

Again many thanks for all the help that you and everyone else has offered.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> Question: How thick would you make the bowties considering this slab is 3" thick?
> 
> Again many thanks for all the help that you and everyone else has offered.


Does the check go all the way threw the top? 1" to 1"1/2.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

The "check"? If you mean the crack, then yes it goes the whole way through the slab.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> The "check"? If you mean the crack, then yes it goes the whole way through the slab.


Then I would make it at least half the thickness. It's considered to be called a check. But I get it.


----------



## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

Pay careful attention to the grain orientation of the bowtie or it won't do any good.

Make the bowtie grain go opposite of the slab grain.
I apologize if you already know this one.....


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

tcleve4911 said:


> Pay careful attention to the grain orientation of the bowtie or it won't do any good.
> 
> Make the bowtie grain go opposite of the slab grain.
> I apologize if you already know this one.....


Good point, tcleve. Making sure grain goes the length of bow tie.


----------



## MNsawyergp (Jan 31, 2012)

I would be concerned about finishing the bottom and then having the top unfinished for an extended period. This will cause the top to take on humidity and could cause cupping or more splitting. I would leave the bottom raw and not apply any finish until the whole thing is done and completely ready to seal up. Epoxy works great for filling holes. I use it a lot. You can color it with universal paint tints from a paint store by stirring in a tiny amount as you mix the A and B parts. The epoxy can be sanded smooth and the finish will make the epoxy transparant. Just for your learning, do a search for polyethelene glycol for woodworking on Google. tree slabs and trunk sections can be soaked in this stuff to prevent checking and splitting.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

MNsawyergp said:


> I would be concerned about finishing the bottom and then having the top unfinished for an extended period. This will cause the top to take on humidity and could cause cupping or more splitting. I would leave the bottom raw and not apply any finish until the whole thing is done and completely ready to seal up.


Would 2-3 weeks make a big difference? My thought is that once I get the bottom finished, let it cure for a few days, then I'll flip the slab. Spend 1-2 days sanding, then a week for the finish coats. I'm getting a large heater for the garage to keep things at around 68F. I live on the east (drier) side of the Cascades in Oregon, but it is winter - rainy, snowy so humidity is a factor.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

MNsawyergp said:


> I would be concerned about finishing the bottom and then having the top unfinished for an extended period. This will cause the top to take on humidity and could cause cupping or more splitting. I would leave the bottom raw and not apply any finish until the whole thing is done and completely ready to seal up. Epoxy works great for filling holes. I use it a lot. You can color it with universal paint tints from a paint store by stirring in a tiny amount as you mix the A and B parts. The epoxy can be sanded smooth and the finish will make the epoxy transparant. Just for your learning, do a search for polyethelene glycol for woodworking on Google. tree slabs and trunk sections can be soaked in this stuff to prevent checking and splitting.


I disagree with both sides being finished. It's a myth. Just like alternating end grain on a table top. Moisture and humidity changes will affect a finish regardless if finished on both sides.or not.
JMO.


----------



## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Then I would make it at least half the thickness. It's considered to be called a check. But I get it.





Dominick said:


> Did you forget that he's a newbie?


:confused1::brows: Now bow ties? Refractive Index? Quarter mil thick french polishing? :blink: I guess all that makes me the newbie here because I have only heared of some of these,much less tried doing them.
:laughing: Can't wait to hear your latest pearl of wisdom.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bentwood said:


> :confused1::brows: Now bow ties? Refractive Index? Quarter mil thick french polishing? :blink: I guess all that makes me the newbie here because I have only heared of some of these,much less tried doing them.
> :laughing: Can't wait to hear your latest pearl of wisdom.


You might want to rephrase this before we get more confused with what your trying to say. So there's no arguments. Lol


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> I disagree with both sides being finished. It's a myth. Just like alternating end grain on a table top. Moisture and humidity changes will affect a finish regardless if finished on both sides.or not.
> JMO.


Then you have a "myth"understanding, lol:smile:

A chapter heading in my book, pointing to mis-information, its copyrighted don't use it!!!!

*“MYTH”UNDERSTANDINGS”*​​*Other areas of misunderstandings of wood surface preparation are these. As mentioned before, usually a company will make decisions on what grits of paper to use depending on the type of color dye/stain is being applied as well as finishes, so that the uniformity will be very consistent *


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

chemmy said:


> Then you have a "myth"understanding, lol:smile:
> 
> A chapter heading in my book, pointing to mis-information, its copyrighted don't use it!!!!
> 
> ...


Baahaahaaaa


----------



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

I love what I'm seeing in the first pic, but there isn't much to go on of the entire piece or project from an intent aspect, so I've sorta laid back and just read the posts. More pictures would be helpful.
Dominic has experience with these types of issues. I would heed his background in these rustic wood matters. He has a propensity of going for the rustic and displaying grain, in his log/wood designs. 
This is not your conventional table with fine joinery and perfectly finished surfaces. That said, it does matter to get a proper finish on it if the table is to see abuse. The point of a glass top is a good one, and it displays what is below while protecting it. Then all that matters is displaying the graining without over concerns for toughness. I use temp glass in my projects of rough wood tables.

Bowties are cool looking in these scenario's but again, not enough pictures to make a judgment call.

(Dom. Adams Steel is welding up a frame for my oak hollow....wish me luck...I know it's not the right method, but it's faster. This succa may need Metal Bow Ties..Ha!)


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Thanks Dan. I guess we will have to see. It's going to look cool regardless what you do to it. 
Can't wait for it.


----------



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Dom

Thinking of using 2 half round maple hollows as a base.
Good contrast with maple and oak?

(sorry, I'm off topic)


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

aardvark said:


> I love what I'm seeing in the first pic, but there isn't much to go on of the entire piece or project from an intent aspect, so I've sorta laid back and just read the posts. More pictures would be helpful.
> Dominic has experience with these types of issues. I would heed his background in these rustic wood matters. He has a propensity of going for the rustic and displaying grain, in his log/wood designs.
> This is not your conventional table with fine joinery and perfectly finished surfaces. That said, it does matter to get a proper finish on it if the table is to see abuse. The point of a glass top is a good one, and it displays what is below while protecting it. Then all that matters is displaying the graining without over concerns for toughness. I use temp glass in my projects of rough wood tables.
> 
> ...


Style wise our home has modern bones but the interior is more rocky mountain - Jackson Hole in concept. Chairs are high backed and will be upholstered with a SW fabric and distressed leather seats. Glass on top would certainly protect the finish but aesthetically be inappropriate with everything else we have done. If we were to go that route then self leveling epoxy would have been an option. My ultimate visual preference would be a tung oil or BLO finish. If the table weren't being used daily and we didn't have young teenagers and thus a high use factor - then we wouldn't need the added protection of a varnish. 

Interesting you mention metal bow ties. When my metal fabricator dropped off the table base yesterday, we spoke of doing this for the underside. FWIW - I've hired one of the guys who did much of the finish work when we built the house to do the table base install. This is requiring some routing and would be best done by a pro. If it were on a lesser quality piece of wood, I would take a shot it. 

I'll post photos as the project visually progresses.


----------



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Ha.
Actually a few brushed aluminum bowties on top might be interesting, and stand out some. I might consider them on my 5 ft round oak top (it has about 2 ft square center rot..thus a 70ish" glass top to accentuate it and make it usable so you don't lose your drink down the center...not good)

Now that picture I am supposing is going to be the top surface and is quite outstanding in grain. What is the length/width dimension?
Love walnut and it will likely need something to tie that split, but it adds character. 
One thing Dominick and I both appreciate is natural gnarly grain patterns and semi rustic appearance. It's what we do.
He one up's me in build quality though.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

What you are looking at in the last photo is the top. It was sitting on the trailer before being lifted / flipped and placed on saw horses. It also was wet with mineral spirits. Not a great photo I'll admit. 
Size is 62"x105"x 3.25"
I'm keeping the live edge and as much of the character of the wood that I can.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

aardvark said:


> Ha.
> Actually a few brushed aluminum bowties on top might be interesting, and stand out some. I might consider them on my 5 ft round oak top (it has about 2 ft square center rot..thus a 70ish" glass top to accentuate it and make it usable so you don't lose your drink down the center...not good)


Instead of glass, would it be worth considering blocking the underside with steel plate, placing stones in the hole and filling with epoxy? Then you can finish the top to your liking.


----------



## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> Instead of glass, would it be worth considering blocking the underside with steel plate, placing stones in the hole and filling with epoxy? Then you can finish the top to your liking.


Actually i had a freind who did just that back in the early 70's he used turquoise, very exotic look, and true to the western indian tradition plus good complimentery color combo. :yes:


----------



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Wow. I didn't realize it was that big.
That succa is HUGE ! The photos sure didn't give it scale. 
I'm not big on the stones thing in epoxy. I'm actually not big on filling that split with epoxy. Instead if it was me, I'd be bowtie 'ing the thing and leaving it as is, or do some unseen thing underside to stabilize the split.

Have you run a moisture check on that piece? It's impossible without cutting it or using a deep probe on it from underside to see what the interior moisture is. If it's not down to an acceptable level, that split could continue when drying. 10% is acceptable. Most interior wood in a standard home is around ~6 to 8%. Some fine fuurniture is at even less, but 10% is acceptable for something like this that isn't fine joinery.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

I wasn't suggesting the stones for me. Thinking about it for your table. I'm with you on the stone. I want to leave mine natural too. The plan is to do a couple of powder coated steel bow ties on the bottom along with the 6" wide steel mounting plate for the legs. I'll bolt that on both sides of the crack to add more stabilizing. Essentially it will act as a large bow tie.

Not sure about the moisture content. It was cut and then stored in a barn for 7 years.


----------



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

It's likely good then on moisture, unless damp conditions.
You can buy a moisture meter from Lowes for about $40.oo to be sure. They sell one called a "General" brand. It's not the best but fine for these purposes.

Gotcha on the steel mounting. Sounds like a go.

Also gotcha on the stone. No, not for me.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I guess it all depends on the base construction. 
Steel or wood. Adding stone or other natural matter, Does look nice. Like above post, it gives it that western rustic flair. 
I haven't done anything with stone. But it would be interesting to do.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

*Detail Photos*

Here are some shots from tonight after cleaning the bottom with turpines. I'm not really happy with how the photos turned out. These were shot with my phone instead of a DSLR.


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

A few more detail shots.


----------



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Nor bad for phone shot.


----------



## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

aardvark said:


> Nor bad for phone shot.


I agree. Lol


----------



## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Here is my friend Joel routing the underside to fit one of the table legs.


----------



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

And again. That is one huge chunk of walnut.

And that is a big split. Secure that puppy well.


----------

