# Which Table Saw to buy???



## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

I tried to search for related threads, but didn't find any. I want a new table saw in the 3-5 hp range with probably a 50" fence but what brands do you folks recommend? Delta, Jet, Craftsman, etc. etc. I'll probably want to buy an outfeed and portable kit for it but I want a nice cabinet, single phase saw, 10", and will use a dado head on it alot. 

Any comments would be greatly appreciated, pro's or con's.

Thanks, JWB


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Delta has just recently announced a newly redesigned Unisaw. The Delta Unisaw has been the industry benchmark for a number of years but there are certainly viable choices for less money. Jet is a good example. 

Grizzly's 1023 series is very popular and more affordable than many....though they're available only through mail order or one of their 3 showrooms. Shop Fox is an associated company with Grizzly but is available through selected dealers and offers a longer warranty. 

Steel City was founded by former Delta and Powermatic executives...their saws are getting good feedback from owners and reviewers too. Speaking of Powermatic, they make two excellent cabinet saws...the PM66 and PM2000. Both tend to be a bit pricey. If you're looking in that price range I'd take a serious look at the Canadian made General 350 or 650 too, or for less money their General International import line. 

Saw Stop offers a terrific, though expensive cabinet saw with skin sensing blade brake technology and will stop and drop in 5 milliseconds after sensing skin, which prevents loss of digits....~ $4k all told.

Sears has a very nice 110v hybrid saw, but I'm not very familiar with their 3-5hp cabinet saws, and really don't see much advantage over the other great choices.

Pick one you like and be happy! :thumbsup:


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

Great question, I have a left tilt 3hp Jet Cabinet saw with sliding table. Its a great saw. 

I will say this though, I have had the misfortune of running my hand through it, THIS IS *NOT* A FUN EXPERIENCE!

Note the all caps there, not only has it been expensive as far as re-conctructive surgery but has been very painful. Why do I say this, because I wish I had known I was going to go through this, I would have bought a Sawstop. Don't know if it is a better saw then any of them, I do know that the safety feature may have prevented my accident, but I would have liked to give it a whirl. I do know that if I hadn't had insurance I could have bought 4 fully loaded Sawstops for the cost of this one injury.

Needless to say I am saving for the Sawstop..............


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks for the input ya'll. Man, Nate, I'm sorry you went through that. Being a guitar picker, that would severely cramp my lifestyle! I just want to buy the best saw for the money with a few accessories. I've always liked the Delta, I have an older 10' contractor now but the fence absolutely sucks. I have to check square every time I move it! I'm looking for speed of blade changes and accuracy and longevity for the most part. I want something that will last my lifetime....which should be another 30 years at least. :thumbsup: I like the powermatic but they are a little pricy. I'd definetly buy the stopsaw but not for $4K!!!! I can buy a used pickup for $4K for cryin' out loud. I think I'd spend about $1500-$2000 on a good one. 

Thanks again and keep the comments comin'! :yes:


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## John in Tennessee (Jun 11, 2008)

4X where are you located?


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

If budget is no problem, I personally would go the SawStop route. I have seen lots of reviews on those saws, and they are a great saw even without the blade brake technology. Every bit as good as Powermatic, Laguna, Grizzly etc... 

If budget is a concern, and with most guys it is... while I am not familiar with the specific models, I can say is I haven't seen anything bad said about Grizzly, aside from shipping costs...


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

I work in Stillwater, OK, but live 20 minutes west. Budget is a concern to me, but not as much as accuracy. Every single time I move this old Delta contractor, I have to double check everything. My main concern is a large table top with a fence that is fast and accurate. Heck, my main concerns keep changing don't they? :help:I am a very precision oriented person, nothing is ever good enough most of the time so my motto is expect excellence and settle for mediocrity. :yes:


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

Welp hind site being what it is I know which way I would go, that said my Jet is accurate and stays that way. It is powerful and handles my needs. Dust collection could be better but I think all the 4" port machines are going to be lacking. Fence is quick and stays in alignment. No matter what saw you invest in you will need to set it up, meaning assure and adjust the alignment of the blade to the fence and the miter slot. You can buy a 24K gold Powermatic but if its off you won't be happy. I bought my saw off of Craigslist including the sliding table for $1200, so there are deals to be had out there on the used market. Here is a pick of mine.


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

Wow, that's impressive for sure! So you can cut 50 inches to the right and how much to the left? I've never seen that much table to the left of blade....but I'm not a professional saw man either.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

4x4dually said:


> Wow, that's impressive for sure! So you can cut 50 inches to the right and how much to the left? I've never seen that much table to the left of blade....but I'm not a professional saw man either.




I'm not either. The table on the left actually slides back and forth, it has outriggers that are pushed "in" in that picture that add another two feet to its length. I can put a whole sheet of plywood on the left side and push it back and forth with one hand fairly easily. Its a nice accessory to have but certainly not necessary, I just lucked out and found it with the saw. It definitely makes cutting sheet goods easy and systematic. Outfeed table is a must no matter what you get, there is nothing like a good outfeed table as well........


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

Nate1778 said:


> there is nothing like a good outfeed table as well........


X2! I completely agree with that!!! My biggest PITA with mine is when I cut a full sheet I can only rip 24 wide and then I set up three craftsman rollers downstream. The always move, one usually falls over, and it is dangerous for sure even with the spousal unit helping me. I'm not a fan.

We built our house, me an her, with the help of a few friends. I still have to finish the kitchen cabinet doors and the pantry and I really hate ripping a nice sheet of birch ply with the circular saw and a guide rail. It isn't straight no matter how hard I try. :thumbdown: And now that I'm to the point of finishing the top cabinets...copper is sky hight!


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

If you want a slider you can buy the Jet model on Amazon here and they go on sale quite frequently if I am not mistaken. You can also Google the serial number on it and see what the best deal is. They adapt to any cabinet saw even though it is made by Jet. It does require you to drill holes in your saw for the installation. Incra I beleive makes a sliding table and I think it was Fine Woodworking just had an article for making a large sled with saw horse kinda deal that made for an interesting sliding table setup. They're great for doing sheet work, worthless for going smaller work. Keep an eye on your local Craigslist including cities you would be willing to drive to to pick up. I drove to Nashville (2 hrs away) for my saw but the deal made it worth it. 



By the way that is some nice copper work..................I like the cabinets as well.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

I would go the c-list route. The kinds of saws you are tossing around can be had for good deals. Just a quick look and I came up with this in OKC: http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/tls/812130361.html They just may not be close enough.


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks. I'm just a rookie that had shop class in high school and had a father that taught me how to build stuff. Those are the first cabinets I've ever made so they came together pretty well. It also helps that I model everything I build in 3D on my computer to make sure everything works first. Then I just cut the pieces out and put them together.


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks jeffery! That in only 50 minutes away. The wife is looking for something for me for Christmas though so I have a while to research!


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

Here is another option that I just got an e-mail about, FWW just released an article on a new SAWSTOP cabinet saw that is designed to compete with the Uni/Powermatic crowd. Still expensive but looks cheaper than there industrial model. The only drawback, doesn't release till Spring '09.

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/SawStop+Unveils+A+Less+Expensive+Cabinet+Saw.aspx


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

That's great news! Thanks for sharing! That aught to make the saw market interesting!


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

Dually:

My money went to Grizzly for the G0651. 10" 3hp 240VAC single phase. Right side table extension and outfeed table. About 1600 clams. Haven't cut a thing with it yet, but it sounds cool when it starts up:yes:!!

smitty


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

I read in one of my magazines that Saw Stop is coming out with a contractor saw. I'm not sure when it's going to be out or what the cost will be but it might be something to look into.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

firefighteremt153 said:


> I read in one of my magazines that Saw Stop is coming out with a contractor saw. I'm not sure when it's going to be out or what the cost will be but it might be something to look into.


The contractor saw version is out now AFAIK. IIRC, it's about $1800 delivered with a riving knife and an unimpressive fence.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Wow, that's pricey for a contractor saw. You could buy alot more saw for the money.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

knotscott said:


> The contractor saw version is out now AFAIK. IIRC, it's about $1800 delivered with a riving knife and an unimpressive fence.




My local Woodcraft has this setup on display, its a nice looking setup, definitely a top of the line contractor saw. I disagree about the fence, the one I saw looked really nice, maybe it was an upgrade. What they have been lacking is a "normal" cabinet saw version. Looks like they are about to corner the market. I mean if you can buy a saw that is comparable in price and performance to even the Powermatic, and it won't cut your fingers off when you have a dumb moment in life, they're going to really start putting a hurt on other saw manufacturers.

The new Sawstop ""Professional Series" will be on my to-do list in '09


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Nate1778 said:


> My local Woodcraft has this setup on display, its a nice looking setup, definitely a top of the line contractor saw. I disagree about the fence, the one I saw looked really nice, maybe it was an upgrade. What they have been lacking is a "normal" cabinet saw version. Looks like they are about to corner the market. I mean if you can buy a saw that is comparable in price and performance to even the Powermatic, and it won't cut your fingers off when you have a dumb moment in life, they're going to really start putting a hurt on other saw manufacturers.
> 
> The new Sawstop ""Professional Series" will be on my to-do list in '09


Is the Pro series their new cabinet saw that's a bit more basic and less expensive? The contractor saw I've seen had this fence (and steel wings)...very different from the Biese type on the cab saw, but perhaps that fence is an option.


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## 4x4dually (Aug 25, 2008)

smitty1967 said:


> Dually:
> 
> My money went to Grizzly for the G0651. 10" 3hp 240VAC single phase. Right side table extension and outfeed table. About 1600 clams. Haven't cut a thing with it yet, but it sounds cool when it starts up:yes:!!
> 
> smitty


Wow, that entire rig was only $1600? That is more affordable than any I've looked at. The big Grizzly showroom in Springfield, MO is about 6 hours from here. The wife and I talked about making a trip over for a night to see it and check them out.

I have yet to find an impressive website for any brand of saw. I was looking for webpages that showed each saw and what options are available for each saw and how much everything was so I could pick and choose. The router table extension is a BONUS for me! I'm still using the laminated piece I cut out when I installed my kitchen sink C-Clamped to the table! :no: Dang cheaters. :laughing:

Thanks to all for the posts, keep the suggestions comin'! :thumbsup:


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

knotscott said:


> Is the Pro series their new cabinet saw that's a bit more basic and less expensive? The contractor saw I've seen had this fence (and steel wings)...very different from the Biese type on the cab saw, but perhaps that fence is an option.




Yeah the Pro series is this one. Seams to be Sawstops newest saw that is the go between from the contractor saw and the industry cabinet. 

Wow your right that does looks cheap. The one at my local Woodcraft has a cast iron wings and a beisemeyor type fence system like the one below. Matter of fact when looking down at it, it was tough to tell it wasn't the cabinet version.


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## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

Actually 4X4 all you probably really need is a good fence on your existing saw, such as a Biesemeyer, Unifence, Vega, Delta T2, etc. then tune the saw up a bit and make sure you've got enough juice going to the motor. I've been a woodworker for about 28 years and I seen no reason in buying a cabinet saw other than bragging rights. Just the other day I was ripping 2 - 4ft rough cut oak 3 x 4's with a 24 tooth Systematic blade and my 13 year old AMERICAN MADE Delta 34-445X Contractors saw with a Unifence and it made it through it just fine. Unless your running a fulltime shop 5 days a week and 8 hours a day a cabinet saw really isn't a neccessity, spend your extra money on a dust collector, air fitration machine, and save your lungs, or buy some other piece of equipment, like a good drill press, mitersaw, thickness planer, etc. A guy can never have enough tools.


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

4x4dually said:


> I have yet to find an impressive website for any brand of saw.


http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/

Grizzly has complete tool catalog in an interactive, online format. They also include a quick spec sheet and the instruction/owner's manual _online_, in *.pdf format. You can read the entire thing if you want, or go to the electrical requirements, the measured drawing of the complete machine, etc. 

And, if you go to Springfield, the Bass Pro Shops mega-store is only about 24 blocks from the Grizzly showroom....just in case you're interested....

regards,
smitty


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## Ed'sGarage (Aug 16, 2007)

*what saw?*

FWIW, I just ordered and received a 1023 SWL from Griz. It's not a Sawstop, but from what I had, it's like going from a tricycle to a "Bentley". I did a lot of research and picked the Griz because I thought it was built more heavy duty than other saws in the same price range(as in trunion). Customer service feedback on the forums, both this and others has been equivalent, in most cases, to other manufacturers. I have other Griz stuff that has worked well for me. Once you step up to saws like Powermatic, Delat unisaw, and others, you really start running the price up dramatically. I didn't feel the differences in extras warranted the price difference and I didn't see enough difference in quality either to make the jump. The only one, at a higher price, that did peak my interest, naturally, was the Sawstop. I might be speaking heresy here, but unless I lose my stance and slip, I do not put my hands w/i the area of the throat plate. Doesn't mean something can't happen, but there are other tools in my shop, my 3 routers come to mind, that can do me just as much, if not more damage than my table saw. Anyway, I purchased the Griz - it's together...I'm building a cross sled first and a fence addition for the router table attachment. Then I can start making sawdust in a serious manner. After putting it together, so far, I can say that I have been pleased with everything leading up to this point with Griz. No complaints. I could have spent more money in a variety of ways, but I think I made a good decision; at least I like what I see in my workshop, when I open the door.
Ed


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

Hey Ed: How was your saw delivered? LTL carrier, I bet? Did you have to unload it, did the trailer have a lift gate, or what? I'm just curious because I skipped all the shipping charges and headaches and drove 6 hours, loaded my pallets and cartons on a trailer, and drove them to my driveway myself, where I could unload them with care and patience.

I hope you didn't have to deal with a grouchy, two-hours behind schedule truck driver....

regards,
smitty


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

I absolutely agree, I think any of the aforementioned cabinet saws will put an ear to ear on your face. Wasn't a slip that got my fingers, it was a one in a hundred thing. The problem here is I see myself as being a fairly sharp guy and capable of using tools in a responsible manor. All it took was a brain fart, some kick back and this is what you get. That took about half a second to do. You see I was that guy that didn't put his hand near the blade as well. I am not saying everyone should buy a Sawstop cause quite honestly I don't have one yet, but I don't wish that pain on anyone, I also don't want to go through that again. I agree while I have a lot of other dangerous tools in the shop, non are as violent as my TS. I still have a hard time working with it. 


Sorry if it sounds like a broken record, but it was an eye opener.......


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Nate1778 said:


> Yeah the Pro series is this one. Seams to be Sawstops newest saw that is the go between from the contractor saw and the industry cabinet.
> 
> Wow your right that does looks cheap. The one at my local Woodcraft has a cast iron wings and a beisemeyortype fence system like the one below. Matter of fact when looking down at it, it was tough to tell it wasn't the cabinet version.


That's the one I keep seeing folks talk about. I know they have a stamped steel wing version with a cheaper fence, kind of comparable to a basic Delta Contractors saw but with the blade brake. $1600.00 for a basic contractors saw is WAY too high. I sure wish they would bring their prices down to weekend warrior levels... But they gotta make a few bucks too I guess...

For what it's worth, with all that extra table, and the Biesemeyer type fence, the buyer might as well go with a full blown cabinet saw...


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## mmtools (Aug 21, 2008)

*Saws*

I would recommend the Delta Unisaw 10" left tilt or right tilt, a Biesemeyer 50" fence, 3 HP for a small shop or 5 HP for a commercial shop. This saw runs around $1,800.00 with everything.
The Saw Stop is another option for a higher end saw. About a $3,400.00 cabinet saw. The outfeed tables are about $500.00 and can be bought from any manufacturer. 
Powermatic Model 66 is another great saw. It is a10" left tilt with a 3 or 5 HP. The price is about $2,800.00. The PM2000 Powermatic has a cast iron base, plus casters built in, beautiful saw, and costs around $2,200.00. Again the outfeed tables are about $500.00.
Any of these saws would make you very happy.
We have 1 Saw Stop left in our store (brand new) that we are selling for $2,600.00 with a 5HP single or three phase. It is a super buy right now. We are located in Utah if you are interested. 
Steve- www.toolsandmachinery.com
[email protected]


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

What exactly is a riving knife? Maybe I know it as some different. I'm waiting to complete a house renovation and then I'm buying the Steel City 3 hp cabinet saw with a granite top. It's gorgeous and functional!


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

TheRecklessOne said:


> What exactly is a riving knife? Maybe I know it as some different. I'm waiting to complete a house renovation and then I'm buying the Steel City 3 hp cabinet saw with a granite top. It's gorgeous and functional!


A riving knife is essentially a splitter that rises and falls with the blade. A standard splitter is fixed.


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