# pocket hole machine ???????



## Moltomichael (Mar 7, 2015)

Kreg new benchtop $399 or Shopfox $699 ? I'm on the fence , THX


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Neither. Pocket holes are poor joints.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

kreg


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

pocket holes are not a joint, they are a fastener, and they are very strong.

with that said, unless you are doing ALOT of them, Id go with the K5 Jig, much cheaper and takes less space. Maybe even a bit more versatile since you can bring it to the work, in any orientation.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Moltomichael said:


> Kreg new benchtop $399 or Shopfox $699 ? I'm on the fence , THX


There both designed like the RITTER. I never did like the drill tub constantly breaking bits. That being said I'm not sure if the Porter Cable is still being made with a price in your budget.

Then you could make one?


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

It takes me longer to find my Kreg jig than to do dowel or MT joint. Anyhoo, I agree with the previous poster who suggested the K5 if not doing huge volumes. And to be honest, I have not used either machine but a friend has the Kreg and likes it. But he still uses the K5 more often


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I have the original Kreg Foreman in the pneumatic flavor. Great little machine. The air switch tends to go bad though. It's just the internal spring that loses tension.

But the machine works well and quick. You can index it with a few stops that are included.

The newer version is mostly plastic, but at half the price it's probably worth it. Plastics can be very strong these days. I wish they'd make everything plastic out of the plastic they make credit cards from. LOL


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Guys....he clearly wants to buy a pocket hole machine. "Neither" isn't constructive. The question wasn't is pocket hole joinery a valid method, it was should I buy a or b. 

Have you looked at both and compared features? What do you plan on making with them and what kind of volume do you intend to use it for.


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Leo G said:


> I have the original Kreg Foreman in the pneumatic flavor. Great little machine. The air switch tends to go bad though. It's just the internal spring that loses tension.
> 
> But the machine works well and quick. You can index it with a few stops that are included.
> 
> The newer version is mostly plastic, but at half the price it's probably worth it. Plastics can be very strong these days. I wish they'd make everything plastic out of the plastic they make credit cards from. LOL


At this years Woodworking Show in KC, the Kreg guy was there and I listened to him explain about the new machine. He did say about the only difference in the new machine was the plastic, which was very strong. He said that allowed them to lower the price for the hobby market.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

After looking at them both online for a bit....I think i'd pick based on planned usage. If this is hobby use only, i'd pick the Kreg. If you're using it for light production i'd probably pick the Shop fox. The shop fox appears to be more metal and a bit heavier duty. That said, my K5 jig is all plastic and it's held up just fine.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

You guys don't know what you are missing! 

It'll crack pecans too! :thumbsup:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Very Cool Man!!


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

My pecan cracker! :thumbsup:
http://s226.photobucket.com/user/mt...ications/2013-12-11214259.mp4.html?sort=3&o=4

Pocket hole jig in action.
http://s226.photobucket.com/user/mt...s/MyKregPocketHoleJigDemo.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I actually was able to buy the small Castle pocket hole machine off of CL for $250.00 a couple months ago. I love it and want to add the air clamp to it just haven't taken the time to hunt all the parts and pieces.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I have the Kreg K4 Master system. I am very pleased with it. You would save $260, which could get you more stuff. K4 system $139.00. If you were Military, get additional discount @ Lowes.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Big Dave said:


> I actually was able to buy the small Castle pocket hole machine off of CL for $250.00 a couple months ago. I love it and want to add the air clamp to it just haven't taken the time to hunt all the parts and pieces.


That was a good find. The price was really good too. We have a couple of the larger pneumatic versions. Do you need additional pictures for your pneumatic completion?


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Rebelwork said:


> That was a good find. The price was really good too. We have a couple of the larger pneumatic versions. Do you need additional pictures for your pneumatic completion?


 Thanks for the offer but I think I'm good. I'll have to make some brackets for the piston. 

Honestly unless I start doing a whole lot more cabinets I'll probably leave it the way it is.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Big Dave said:


> Thanks for the offer but I think I'm good. I'll have to make some brackets for the piston.
> 
> Honestly unless I start doing a whole lot more cabinets I'll probably leave it the way it is.


You may find the brackets you need from these guys.
http://www.frightprops.com/

That is where I bought the mounts for the air cylinder.
Mike


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

MT Stringer said:


> You may find the brackets you need from these guys.
> http://www.frightprops.com/
> 
> That is where I bought the mounts for the air cylinder.
> Mike


Thanks


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## Moltomichael (Mar 7, 2015)

Thank you all for your response's. I 'm going with the small Kreg machine, It's compact and not allot of $$$.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

hwebb99 said:


> Neither. Pocket holes are poor joints.


I would not say they are poor joints. I have just never found a use for them.

George


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> I would not say they are poor joints. I have just never found a use for them.
> 
> George


Why not? Besides a butt joint they are the weakest of any joint.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Do you have proof of that, or is it just your feeling?? I don't know of any subjective test that has been published proving that one way or another.


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Since we have gone off topic..............I have seen folks that have tested joints and pocket hole joints are not the strongest nor the weakest. I am going to do a joint that is meant for the job. Pocket hole joints are fine for many applications escpecially if you use glue as well. It is also dependent on if it is a hard wood or soft wood on the strength of a joint useing screws and if you use the correct screws.

I do nor use pocket hole joinery often, not because it is inferior, but because I like to se traditional joinery.

As far as the topic, my buddy who does cabinets and furniture for a living swears by pocket hole joinery (uses the Kreg sytem) if used for the proper job.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

Ill put a pocket joint against any other joint... 

though we have not identified if this is an butt or corner joint, and how many screws will you use? Glue as well? 

In any case, you put a screw every inch and you let me know how strong that joint is. its going to be as strong as the wood. you run it over with a semi truck and you'll pull out intact screws.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Do you have proof of that, or is it just your feeling?? I don't know of any subjective test that has been published proving that one way or another.



Matthias wandel did a test for his website woodgears.ca . Here is his result. Long before the pocket holes failed they opened at the bottom.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Here is another test. He didn't test pocket holes, but do you really think they would be even close? He had his jack on a lever, so the actual force was 3 times what the table shows.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I mainly use the pocket hole joinery to assemble face frames and attach them to the carcase if the holes won't be visible. That includes from the top into the frame and from underneath the bottom into the frame.

Note of interest: When I was building my kitchen cabinets, I installed a mid rail on a base cabinet (all drawers) in the wrong spot. When I discovered the error, it was a simple matter of removing the screws and relocating the rail to the correct position. Whew!


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