# What I'm I missing on Sargent #49 Rabbet Plane



## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

*What I'm I missing on Sargent #79 Rabbet Plane*

Just received this from eBay and I think I'm missing a depth gauge, but I'm not sure because of a wheel attached on the side.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

The wheel is used to score or nick the wood ahead of the blade. And yes you appear to be missing the depth stop which would attach above the wheel. If the picture shows everything you got, you are also missing a fence which attaches on either the left or right. 

The design is similar (if not the same) to the Stanley #78. _If the thread sizes are the same between the two_, you could probably get parts from a Stanley. 

Someone will probably chime in and tell if the threads are the same between the Stanley and your Sargent.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I also wonder if the "wheel" is a user add-on for a lost spur? I've seen pictures of other Sargent rabbet/dado planes and they used the three pronged spur similar to that used by Stanley.

Anyone know for sure?


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

trc65 said:


> I also wonder if the "wheel" is a user add-on for a lost spur? I've seen pictures of other Sargent rabbet/dado planes and they used the three pronged spur similar to that used by Stanley.
> 
> Anyone know for sure?


I don't see how you could attach a depth stop with that wheel, I'd bet it has a spur shaped inset underneath.

But yes, I agree that you also appear to be missing the fence. You may need to use a batten to use the plane for rabbets.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Here is where it goes on your plane.
Missing a depth gauge and screw.
Missing a Fence rod and fence.
Some Stanley parts are inter changeable, especially after the buy out.
Niceplane..:thumbsup:


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Ok sorry I had to go out for awhile and couldn’t respond. 

Anyway thanks everybody for all the info. I’m still trying to figure out why you would need to score or nick the wood. Is that to keep the edge from splitting or splintering?

I also don’t understand how the fence attaches because the hole does not go all the way through and there is no screw or anything to keep it from falling out. The Stanley 78 has a wing screw to hold and I suppose also adjust the fence. 

I can see how a depth gauge would slide in that V grove if the wheel wasn’t there.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

The fence rod is smooth with threads on the end that go where acowboy notes and then the wing screw grips the fence onto the rod at the distance of your choosing.

The knicker is for when you're making a rabbet cross grain to prevent tearout. With the grain you don't need it. You could get by with making a strong line with a marking knife or chisel instead.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I just found this Photo of one at "Tool Exchange" and it shows the fence and the Depth Gauge, but no wheel.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I just ordered the fence and depth gauge, but the screw was $15 and that's way more than I will Pay so I'll keep looking.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Caution when using a Rebate plane...
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/furniture/UsingRebatePlanes.html
:yes:
They do have a habit to get you.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

acowboy said:


> Caution when using a Rebate plane...
> http://www.inthewoodshop.com/furniture/UsingRebatePlanes.html
> :yes:
> They do have a habit to get you.


 Oh wow thanks for the warning. 
I have never used one of these types of planes and I was looking forward to seeing how it works. The more I look at it, the more difficult it looks especially for narrow rabbits and I was just wondering if I may have to build some sort of jig to keep it from tilting over the edge.

Anyway I’m a little disappointed with my purchase after finding out how much the rest of the parts cost me. It reminds me of buying a car without an engine, tires or battery. The extras cost more than the car itself.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Np,
Here is where the cycle starts, either you buy the part, and yes it is expensive sometimes. But you have the part or parts for make your plane complete. Or you can search the web or garage sale and buy a plane for the parts..lol. Unless its broken somewhere, you will end up with another plane that either sits in a box or in "plane" view saying 
"fix me too".:yes:


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Sleeper said:


> Oh wow thanks for the warning.
> I have never used one of these types of planes and I was looking forward to seeing how it works. The more I look at it, the more difficult it looks especially for narrow rabbits and I was just wondering if I may have to build some sort of jig to keep it from tilting over the edge.
> 
> Anyway I&#146;m a little disappointed with my purchase after finding out how much the rest of the parts cost me. It reminds me of buying a car without an engine, tires or battery. The extras cost more than the car itself.


It happens. I got burned on a few eBay plane purchases before I became familiar with planes & learned exactly what I was looking at. 

I spent 30 bucks on a Stanley 78 thinking I got a good deal, and ended up spending another 30 on the parts I was missing lol


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

If you read up on the planes you're looking for here he details what parts are often missing. When I bought a 78 I waited until I saw a complete one at a good price, which meant skipping quite a few. Mine ended up going for not much as the seller had the bidder history hidden which I think scared people off. Some people even _think_ something is missing when it is not. The plane I was going to bid on had I lost the one I got was listed as incomplete because the seller thought it was missing a second blade and cap to go on the bullnose position.

But yes, parts are expensive, which is why you see so many lots of plane bodies for sale that have been stripped.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Gilgaron said:


> But yes, parts are expensive, which is why you see so many lots of plane bodies for sale that have been stripped.


This is just so wrong! :furious: I would never do something like this.

While I was searching for parts I saw another 79 with all the parts and I wished I hadn’t already bought this one. It is just starting to bid and I’m just going to watch it to see how much it goes for. I don't want a bunch of skeletons laying around. 

I was watching another item on eBay that I really wanted, but expected it to go for well over a $150 so I didn’t bother to bid, and then when It sold for $79, I was kicking myself in the butt for not trying.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

That's not an original nicker. The correct one sits in beyond flush to the plane side and doesn't protrude over the groove for the depth stop. That copper pin looks like it was added, too. Stanley 78s have a depth adjuster for the blade. Plenty of those available and not too expensive since they aren't the best for rabbet work. All rabbet planes have the blade projecting flush with the plane side. Very easy to cut your fingers if you put them in the wrong place.

When you buy on line from pictures, you have to know what to look for. Even then, it can be difficult. You couldn't tell if the blade has been altered on the width and won't come flush with the side, for example. The nicker on that one was a glaring irregularity. Many of the sellers on Ebay simply don't know what they have. Some may be scammers but most just found something and are trying to make a buck. If there aren't several bidders, people are seeing things you don't or the item isn't desirable.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Hammer1 said:


> That's not an original nicker. The correct one sits in beyond flush to the plane side and doesn't protrude over the groove for the depth stop. That copper pin looks like it was added, too. Stanley 78s have a depth adjuster for the blade. Plenty of those available and not too expensive since they aren't the best for rabbet work. All rabbet planes have the blade projecting flush with the plane side. Very easy to cut your fingers if you put them in the wrong place.


I wish I would have seen this before buying the $30 of extra parts otherwise I would have just marked it up as a loss. Now I'm thinking I may just have to mark it up as an even bigger loss and buy a Stanley. :wallbash:


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Loss..?
No loss at all...you still have a very nice plane still, you just paid for a lesson.
Now all you have to do is correct what is wrong or missing.
And then start making some shavings with it.
And don't be afraid of getting bit, everyone has...another lesson...


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## tailwagger (Nov 21, 2013)

Hammer1 said:


> That's not an original nicker.


That cutting wheel nicker is crazy. I wonder how well it works? At the very least, very creative of the user.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

tailwagger said:


> That cutting wheel nicker is crazy. I wonder how well it works? At the very least, very creative of the user.


Bet if he pulls it off it has a star recess and screw hole there, previous user probably did not want to buy another nicker or did not have internet yet...


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## tailwagger (Nov 21, 2013)

acowboy said:


> Bet if he pulls it off it has a star recess and screw hole there, previous user probably did not want to buy another nicker or did not have internet yet...


Yeah, I'd get that thing off, lol


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

*Closeups of wheel*

Here are some closer photos of this wheel.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I was wrong about the nicker, the close up shows it's correct. Different than Stanley's. The Sargent depth stop must have a stop in the spine that fits in the groove to step over the nicker.


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## tailwagger (Nov 21, 2013)

Cool. Obviously designed and original. Actually looks flush or near flush with the plane body, too. Nothing wrong with that nicker.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

So now I discover that the post or fence support has 1/4”-24 threads and I may have to make my own if I can find a tap and die. 

I saw a thread about this plane at another site and they were taking about 1 / 4”-28, but when I tried that size it would not fit. Then I found some very old harden shoulder bolts that were 1/4”-24 threads that fit perfectly. None of my tap & die sets have that size so I’m looking for a long bolt or a die that size.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

*Fence support for Sargent 79 Plane*

I found a 2"x1/4”- 24 bolt that just might work for my fence support if I cut off the head. I wish it were a little longer, but I can’t imagine making a rabbit any wider than this. :shifty:


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

You'll want the fence, but you don't really need the depth gauge; it just makes life easier. If you mark the depth of the rabbet carefully, you can learn to control how deep the cut goes.

I worked with a plane set up that way for quite a while until I acquired a Stanley 78 with all its parts. I would be willing to use a rabbet plane without a nicker or a depth gauge, but not the fence: that's the critical part (well, other than the blade) on these things.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

amckenzie4 said:


> You'll want the fence, but you don't really need the depth gauge; it just makes life easier. If you mark the depth of the rabbet carefully, you can learn to control how deep the cut goes.
> 
> I worked with a plane set up that way for quite a while until I acquired a Stanley 78 with all its parts. I would be willing to use a rabbet plane without a nicker or a depth gauge, but not the fence: that's the critical part (well, other than the blade) on these things.


Thanks Andy,
When I bid on this Sargent I thought I was bidding on a Stanley 78 but clicked on the wrong item without my reading glasses and didn’t notice it until it was too late. This past weekend I bid on a Stanley 378 with all the parts just in case I got lucky, but was outbid. Now I wish I would have tried harder.:smile:


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Sleeper you can use this plane without the fence and depth gauge,a lot of the old wooden rabbet planes didn't have either but they where used long enough before the steel planes came on the seen.Its easy really could walk you through it if you want.
Having said that it sure wouldn't hurt to have the fence and depth gauge.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Billy De said:


> Sleeper you can use this plane without the fence and depth gauge,a lot of the old wooden rabbet planes didn't have either but they where used long enough before the steel planes came on the seen.Its easy really could walk you through it if you want.
> Having said that it sure wouldn't hurt to have the fence and depth gauge.


 Thanks Billy,
I did buy a fence and the depth gauge, but not the thumb screw which was outrageous in price. The fence and depth gauge was supposed to be delivered on Saturday so it might be here today. It takes a 10-24 thumbscrew with a shoulder and I think Home Depot sells them. I have to go there today to pick up some ¾ Plywood and I’ll check when I’m there. 
I think this 1/4-24 cap bolt is going to work and my only concern right now is if it will fit the hole in the fence.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Fair enough,Most plane makers where infamous for using odd sizes for the threads.Maybe it was to stop parts being interchangeable.
Something else that struck me when looking at the pics of your plane was there is no adjusting lever for the depth of the iron,but then again that could be nothing if you get use to setting the iron, good luck with everything.:thumbsup: Billy


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Billy De said:


> Something else that struck me when looking at the pics of your plane was there is no adjusting lever for the depth of the iron,but then again that could be nothing if you get use to setting the iron, good luck with everything.:thumbsup: Billy


 Wow you had me worried for a moment until I looked at Photo from "Tool Exchange" in post #8 and saw that it doesn’t have a leaver. :smile:


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

My parts arrived and I'm a little disappointed. The new Fence is a little lose on the bolt and it’s a little short, but as long as my rabbets aren’t wider than 1” it will be OK.

Home depot did not have the thumbscrew so I'll have search for on on the internet


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