# Pin Oak



## Oscar

Was given (Ha) a humongous Pin Oak 90" at base X 68' tall by a freind who had it blow a BIG limb out last week due one of our too many stroms of late! It was in the front yard of his house (within 30') and no more than 50' to the busy street and power line. Thankgoodness the power company topped it to 55' removing and dropping all the branches and we were able to drop the trunk with help from the winch in a safe area and loaded it in three peices. Anywho my rambling isn't about the harvesting of this magnificant tree it's about something I just read (after all the damn work) in the book "Harvesting Urban Timber" which my lovely wife picked-up at the Woodsmith store Monday. This guy (Sam Sherrill) says that the Pin Oak does not produce desirable wood and [is of limited value and use.] What say ye?? 

Is it worth milling into ?? or should it heat my house winter of 09??


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## Daren

[email protected] said:


> Was given a Pin Oak
> 
> in the book "Harvesting Urban Timber" Sam Sherrill says that the Pin Oak does not produce desirable wood and [is of limited value and use.]
> 
> Is it worth milling into ?? or should it heat my house winter of 09??
> 
> What say ye??


Well, you were given a tree. Sam Sherill is an "expert"...but what may not be desirable to him (he is talking big time commercial value for loggers, not niche market, just dump it on the pallet market :no may just be worth sawing into. It is knotty, but so is white pine, ever seen that ? Sells for a premium around here. I have bad experiences with the "best" species of oak and good with the "worst", crap shoot. My vote is have some milled, if it blows apart then that saves you some labor for the upcoming heating season , just chuck it in the fire:laughing:

And good on you for looking for logs and doing your research :thumbsup:


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## TS3660

I didn't realize pin oaks got that big. All the ones I have ever seen were not over 12" or so at the base and prolly not taller than 30'.


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## Daren

TS3660 said:


> I didn't realize pin oaks got that big. .


Another reason I said have some milled (may not even be a _pin_ oak :whistling2


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## dirtclod

Pin oaks get pretty big around here. They grow tall - even in the open, and their mature DBH generally runs ~30-40" but some are larger. I admit I haven't noticed one 90". They are limby - kind of reminds me of pine. I usually associate it with wet areas.

Pin oak tends to have wide growth rings. Some find that undesirable.

Shake is very common in pin oak. Watch out for ring seperation. This can render the lumber useless. If you don't know what to look for, and don't feel comfortable judging if ring shake is present, then you better get someone that can id it, because it can be a real deal killer.

Almost all the pin oak around here smells like piss and worse. It makes some people gag. The smell goes away after about 3 months of air drying. It does make good firewood. But stack it downwind until the smell goes away.

All that being said I don't want to scare you away from milling it. Though you didn't give us the log measurements I'm guessing you could get a huge pile of lumber out of it. You must have some big equipment to move logs that big. Do you have a mill? It sounds like a big CSM and a lot of heavy work breaking it down so it will fit on a band mill. Or you'll need a properly optioned swing mill to tackle it.


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## TexasTimbers

I cut Pin Oak when I get good solid logs. They are plentiful here. Water oak and Pin oak here in the South are often wrongly referred to as willow oak and laurel oak.They are not pin oak. Pin oak is a distinct species known as _Quercus Palustris._ It has deeply cut lobed leaves. One way to know if it is Pin Oak . . . smell a Cottonmouth Mocassin (they stink to high Heaven), then sniff the Pin Oak. If the Cottonmouth smells better you got Pin Oak. 

Cut it up anyway. It can be as pretty as any other wood to me.


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## Oscar

I just added photos of the tree: 96"x10', 12"x12"x16' & 42"x22' respectively with a really nice chunk of Black Walnut in back. In answer to one of the ?'s I have an OLD Ford Backhoe that grunts the logs off the trailer & onto the mill. Also, this tree doesn't smell like some have suggested? I'm calling it a Pin Oak based on the leaves it had and fact it has millions of tiny holes around the outer grains (rings). I'm certainly open to suggestion from others as I'm relatively new to this!!


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## TexasTimbers

Oscar welcome to the family, milling and woodworkingtalk.  Thanks for uploading your pictures to the site and not linking them to an offsite facility. I added them to your thread for you until you get a chance to read the tutorial in the Intro section. 

I can't tell for sure if that is pin oak from those images. They are good quality pictures but I need a leaf to be sure. The bark looks a little too smooth. More like water oak bark. But if you had a leaf I could tell you for sure.


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## Daren

I can't ID it. What exactly did the leaves look like (of course a picture would be best) Poke around this link and see if you see anything familiar. http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/data_results_with_common.cfm
Type in "oak" in the common name box and hit "display matching species"...then you will have about a million to chose from :laughing:. There are too many oaks for me to keep track of.

Edit: I see TT was posting at the same time, yea a leaf would help.


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## TexasTimbers

And as often happens Daren and Kevin, both great minds, thinking alike at a similiar time. :laughing:

Okay one great mind. I was just joking about me having one. :blink:


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## Daren

TexasTimbers said:


> And as often happens Daren and Kevin, both great minds, thinking alike at a similiar time.


Yea, and if we put those minds together...we still only can come up with 1/2 brained ideas :laughing:.


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## TexasTimbers

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:​


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## dirtclod

Pin oak around here can have pretty smooth bark (or not) in the upper log/branches. Got one in the yard that the upper log looks as smooth as young white pine. But I can't see the bark well enough in the trunk to tell for sure. 

Oak comparisons: http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/frame.htm


You can narrow your search down on that VT Dendrology site Texas Timbers posted by including Iowa in the search and eliminate the oaks that don't grow in your area.

Can you post a shot for the end grain at the butt?


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## frankp

Thanks for the links. I've found one that is occasionally helpful for me as well, though so far I still haven't nailed down exactly what I have in my yard...

http://forestry.about.com/library/treekey/bltree_key_id_start.htm


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## TexasTimbers

dirtclod said:


> . . . You can narrow your search down on that VT Dendrology site Texas Timbers posted . . .


Thanks, but 10 to 1 Daren will take the credit just because the link is in his post.


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## dirtclod

TexasTimbers said:


> Thanks, but 10 to 1 Daren will take the credit just because the link is in his post.


*Diss*lexyia?:yes:


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## dirtclod

I just noticed that link I posted earlier doesn't work worth... I had linked to the oak comparison page. If you want to see them then start at the link below. then choose the links in this order: Northeastern N. Am. trees, by scientific name, scroll down to _Quercus palustris_. Look on the right side of the page and choose Compare to other oaks.


Start here: http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages

It's an awkward site but it has more and better images than any site i've seen.


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## dirtclod

We milled a pin oak butt log yesterday. This was the first one I've done that didn't stink. It was a yard tree. It must have gotten some good fertilize as some of the growth rings were 1/2" wide. I cut it into 14-2x6's and 2-1x8's. I sliced the cant in two near the pith. Much to my supprise the 2x6s didn't crook, bow or twist.


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## TexasTimbers

dirtclod said:


> . . . Much to my supprise the 2x6s didn't crook, bow or twist.


Not yet anyway. :icon_smile:

Sometimes though, wood you would swear will not move will look like a boat keel the next day and wood you thought was going to fly away on it's own will be steady as she goes. If wood is anything it is _ not totally predictable _. I've never cut into a Pin that didn't stink. So maybe the tension wood in a non-scented Pin Oak doesn't move. :laughing:


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## Oscar

*warped out*

Most all the board I cut from this first log have warped,cupped & cracked! Some is my fault as I didn't properly & promptly stack & remove from direct Sun. I'm in the beginning process of building a Solar Kiln & have not been too concerned with tending my boards as I know should. I've cut & left several beams and cants for later work. I hope this isn't sacreligious or something?? I was reading that the Pin Oak is frequently sold as Red Oak. There are some definite similarities. Any how I think all the Pin Oak I've got will Beamed if big enough and if not I'll make benches etc out of the rest! It's still got many if not most of the characterstics of Oak & the price is certainly right.


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## dirtclod

We milled the top log today. It was very knotty. But it also layed flat while I through-and-through sawed the cant into 4/4 x 9.5" x 12'. The smell was borderline sickly sweet, allmost pleasent at times/close to a little smelly at others. It had wide nearly white sapwood with a well centered gray/black/reddish heart which made for a striking _silhouette_ of an old tree trunk enbedded in each board*.* This was unlike other pin oak I've milled which looked like regular red oak only with wider growth rings and a smell that would make a skunk blush.


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## jeffreythree

Did it look a little like this pin oak. At least that is what I think it is based on twig id and the tree owner's memory.


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## dirtclod

The colors were different but I see simularities. The one on the left would be the cloest match. A closeup of the near end of it would help to confirm it. But yours looks like pin oak to me. Ours had a whiter/wider sapwood (probably due to its comparative youth/good growing conditions) and the heartwood was gray-green with some blacks, browns and reds mixed in. Ours had been laying on the ground in full sun since maybe December which may have affected the colors some.


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## TexasTimbers

If you want to see widely disparate colors in a single specie start cutting Pecan. You can cut 3 trees that look the same, then you can cut 3 more from the same area and they all three look different. And that's even making sure what you are cutting _is_ Pecan. I have read where many millers get Pecan and Hickory confused. Once you knock the slabs off even the trained eye (me included) cannot tell the difference between hickory lumber and Pecan. You make the proper ID before you mill them. 

Remember, Hickory nuts don't grow on Pecan trees, and Pecans don't grow on Hickory trees. Still, when a woodworker buys Pecan he is getting Hickory in most cases. Both genus's can have wide swings in color especially Pecan which is in the Hickory family. Also note, it is common and accepted practice for a hardwood supplier to sell Hickory as Pecan. I don't cotton to that but it has been done forever.

If you ever run across a Blackheart Pecan I want it. I haven't found one yet but I have a permanent open order for them. If you find one contact me. KaChing!


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## dirtclod

Oh you can't seem to get it on sticks fast enough in the heat.



TexasTimbers said:


> Sometimes though, wood you would swear will not move will look like a boat keel the next day and wood you thought was going to fly away on it's own will be steady as she goes. If wood is anything it is _not totally predictable _. I've never cut into a Pin that didn't stink. So maybe the tension wood in a non-scented Pin Oak doesn't move. :laughing:


Yeah Texas, just after we finished the pin oak we milled a small 16' hickory into 3- 3x8s. The pith-centered one behaved itself , the other two bowed about 3" per end. Good thing they are going to be used to support a loft. Some midspan manipulation should tame them. 

I don't see pecans often but I'll keep my eye open for some black heart. Got some pictures?


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