# milling for 4x4 posts



## reprosser (May 19, 2010)

Is it a general rule to mill lumber to be used as 4x4 post - from the center of the log (pith in the middle)? 

Any special air drying or kiln techniques for these?


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

The preferred sawing method for any beam or post is quarter sawn (4 sided edge grain) FOHC. It's hard to get trees big enough for to get FOHC timbers but getting 4 x 4 posts is not a problem. 

Boxed hearts are stable also but will check toward the pith (center). FOHC beams and posts with 2 faces of flat grain and two faces of end grain will cup. 

So the first choice is if you have logs wide enough to get qtr. sawn FOHC posts then get as many of those as you can, and then box the heart for one more. But don't ever cut a WSXJYT pattern for a beam or post. 

If you need dimension lumber also mill that from what would be the FOHC with two flat and two end grain faces. If you're like me and need a picture I'll draw one for you. 

FOHC = free of heart center. Boxed heart just means the pith is centered in the beam or post. WSXJYT doesn't mean anything I just made that up. :huh:





.


----------



## Mizer (Mar 11, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> FOHC = free of heart center. Boxed heart just means the pith is centered in the beam or post. WSXJYT doesn't mean anything I just made that up. :huh.


That confirms it, YAAN


----------



## wmodavis (Dec 26, 2010)

This is only an "I Think" kind of response to take it with a grain of saw dust. 

I think it allows them to harvest smaller diameter trees. 

They only have to square it up but it does leave the pith in the middle. 

Also in larger trees, since the pith can be problematic in many wood projects and it may be less so in posts, maybe they turn the center into a post and the rest into other use lumber.

So much for what I think.


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Mizer said:


> That confirms it, YAAN


I am indeed a nut, but it was confirmed long before that post. :1eye:










.


----------



## reprosser (May 19, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> FOHC = free of heart center. Boxed heart just means the pith is centered in the beam or post. WSXJYT doesn't mean anything I just made that up. :huh:


Man, you are messing with my mind:blink: - and there is precious little of it :laughing::laughing:

Since I am dealing with smaller diameter trees, I think it will be Boxed Heart.


----------



## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

I know a guy who would make 4x4s from the pith center of walnut logs after sawing the grade lumber from the log. Yes they probably moved a lot, but they were destined for runners on hog houses. I cut some over sized lumber from small 8" - 12" walnut trees that were being removed from a pond job. I let them dry a couple of years and then flattened a side and squared them up. I plan on using them for outdoor trellises. A few cracks (pith) are there, but they'll be on the back side. The point is it might depend on the log and the uses of the lumber. If the log isn't that big or clear and you need some 4x4s for blocking, then center cut might not be so bad. But if your talking about posts for timber framing, then I'd say follow TT.


----------



## slabmaster (Mar 30, 2008)

*Boxed center*

BHC would be my choice for anything that you want to stay straight.FOHC would tend to bow more which is not good for timber frameing.BHC is used for log homes with good results.:yes: WSXJYT is only good for the woodstove in the summer.:laughing::laughing:


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

slabmaster said:


> BHC would be my choice for anything that you want to stay straight.FOHC would tend to bow more which is not good for timber frameing.


Qtr. sawn FOHC is by far the most stable cut from a log. They are taken from the 45º, 135º, 225º, and 315º position in a log. That's a textbook example of course. The bigger the log the more you can get by adjusting your milling strategy & depending on what size/s you need.

The FOHC from the 0º, 90º, 180º, and 270º positions will have two opposing sides of qtr. sawn and two opposing sides of flat sawn grain and they will almost always cup to some degree, and some will bow or crook or twist or any combo thereof, depending on how the grain pattern has created various stresses throughout the log. But using a perfect straight grain log as a starting point (there has to be some kind of starting point), you can know that they will at least almost always cup. If you see twisting grain you can bet the log will twist as it dries. If you see run-out it's going to bow as it dries until the stress is gone. If you see sweeping grain on the flat it'll crook etc. If you see twisting, sweeping run-out cut it up for firewood. 

Boxed heart is perfectly fine for most uses and with the smaller average diameter trees we harvest these days it is by far the most common use for the center of the tree when cutting posts & beams. When milling dimension lumber the pith is avoided altogether in most cases, and milled for bolsters/cribbing/etc. It makes crappy stickers though because there's not enough sound wood around it to contain the stress and often porous center so I don't take stickers from the pith. Most all of the posts I mill are boxed heart simply because I don't usually get the diameter of tree I need for 4 or more qtr. sawn FOHC posts or beams. 

A picture is worth a 1000 words though so I will scribble a milling diagram and you'll see instantly why the qtr. sawn FOHC timbers were used exclusively during the timber framing heydays harvesting and milling the virgin forests of N.A. 







.


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

The purple boards are quarter sawn. The green timber/post is a quarter sawn FOHC square (can also be a near-square rectangle for a beam etc.) with some rift on the outer face and some on the inside portion of the lower face, but no flat sawn. 

The burgandy FOHC on the left clearly has an outer flat sawn face and the inside face contains rift on the outer edges and flat or near-flat in the center. The point is this timber will not be as stable as it dries because the flat grain will not allow moisture evaporation nearly as quickly as the rift and quarter sawn faces and so it is forced to relieve stress at a much different rate even if there's no grain problems such as twist, run-out etc. 

The boxed heart timber is more prone to stress relief due to grain patterns and the condition of the pith, because the faces are all similar and will release moisture more evenly. The purple boards are most stable when sawed from perfect quartered grain. 

In the real world logs aren't perfect but this is your starting point. With near perfect logs you can get near-perfect whatevers. With horrible logs you can still often get near-perfect whatevers, depending on what you need, you just won't get nearly as many nor as long. 









I hope this helps at least someone it took 30 minutes to make. This is not a tutorial on how to quarter saw lumber by any means. There's many many ways to take a log apart for that, I was just wanting to show mainly where a quarter sawn FOHC timber is taken in the log.






.


----------



## reprosser (May 19, 2010)

Thanks TT,

I thought I understood, but the picture confirmed it with no question.


----------



## b00kemdano (Feb 10, 2009)

TexasTimbers said:


> I hope this helps at least someone it took 30 minutes to make.
> .


 
Your diagram helped me, too, TT! :thumbsup:

I was searching the forums looking for how to mill a log to get some 2x2 stock for some stool legs. I've just got a Grizzly 14" bandsaw and some walnut from the neighbor's yard. I still need to build a resaw sled, but hopefully I can mill something usable from that walnut. 

Thanks!


----------

