# Dovetail jigs?



## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

Any of you guys use an OMNI Jig? Porter Cable dovetail machine? I don't want to spend the bucks for Leigh (?) adjustable jig, and I see the Omni's go for $150 on ebay quite often...16 inch variety. I do not want an adjustable jig, but I want one that is quick, easy, and holds both boards at the same time...I think this means it cuts tails and pins at the same time. Thoughts?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I use the Reliant jig myself. It does the tails and pins at the same time and has a cam style hold down for the boards. It was pretty cheap, $70. Took a while to set it up well but now that it is it works fine. The best thing you can do is get a dedicated router for the setup and never break it down. Saves hours in setup time.:thumbsup:


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## clampman (Oct 20, 2006)

I've used the PC one and it's a good rugged one with a fast clamp. I would recommend that one - though I've never used a reliant one. I've used old Craftsmen ones in the past and they were pretty flimsey and slower than the PC.

When you're doing narrow drawers, you'll probably want to put a block under the clamps on the empty side an eighth or sixteenth less in thickness than your drawer stock.

Like Leo said, get a cheap router and leave it set up , and wear glasses for your first setup. You may need to run the dovetail bit up so far into the bushing that it cuts some of the inside of the bushing. Course now you know about it, you could always grind the bushing down a little lower before you start. Don't worry about it in any event - that part of the bit won't be doing any of the cutting anyhow.:no:

If you're getting one off ebay - make sure it doesn't have any router bites out of the teeth.

Regards,
Jimc


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I suggest using the jig God gave you! 
I know you don't want to hear this, but the worst thing you can do is buy a jig. Most of us tell ourselves "I'll just use the jig until I learn to cut them by hand, since it will takes years to master.." HOGWASH! :yes: 

All it takes is the willingness to spend a few minutes a day for several times a week. This time of year with the nasty weather coming up you could be cutting NICE, TIGHT, ACCURATE dovetails before winter is out.
Their is a myth thta it takes years to be able to do this. That is simply a myth. Now granted, there are some of us who are just plain clumsy and mechanically incapable of training our brain to do it, but I assert this is a teeny tiny minority.

Anyone such as yourself who has worked with his hands all his life can accomplish this EXTREMELY GRATIFYING feat. Yes you will never get as fast as a jig, but man you talk about a stress reliever :thumbsup: And the satisfaction that comes when your family/friends finally believe you when you answer "Yes really! I really did cut those by hand!"

Now, if you INSIST on being half a woodworker and buy a jig, I was unaware of any jig that will allow you to clamp both boards to the jig and cut them at the same time as mentioned abouve. It wouldn't speed things up that much in my mind because you must realize that you use a straight bit to cut the pins and a tapered bit to cut the tails, so a bit change is always involved anyway. I don't know if the Reliant avoids this somehow but I can't imagine how.

Before I saw the light and learned to cut by hand I owned a Leigh, that I bought like in '92ish so I guess it was a D3? Fortunately it got stolen. 
Now I do own one jig that cuts "tapered dovetail splines" which is so cool I can't resist using it. I suppose it would be possible to learn how to cut these by hand but it would take a Zen Woodworking Monk years to master. okay maybe months of constant practice, but you can learn acceptable traditional dovetails in weeks if you practice everyday.

_"Concentrate Grasshoppa ... when you can master the tapered dovetail spline, it will be time for you to go......... Aummmmmm....... Aummmmmmm....... _


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Bois D' Arc Boy, I have the Relient jig and it indeed cuts the tails and pins at the same time, same as many jigs do. 4 passes and you have a drawer. It's great that you find the time to do the dovetails the right way, by hand. But when you need to do 23 drawers and half of them are 8" tall a little speed is required, especially with the time constraints that producing a kitchen usually entails. The reason you can't see how the jig cuts both pieces at the same time is because you are doing a through dovetail and the jig does a half blind dovetail. After the stock is milled to the correct thickness and sized it takes about 5-8 minutes to do all four sides and have the drawer ready for assy. I have never spent the time to learn how to do them by hand. Maybe when I retire and don't need to make money anymore.:thumbsup:


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I have cut them by hand...long time back, and promised myself that a jig will be how I do it this time around....kind of like digging a ditch by hand or with my ditch witch....of course, both ways have merrit!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Sorry Leo i didn't stop to consider someone here was making their living woodworking. I gguess I came across a little pompous, sorry!
I see your point. If I was making my living cutting production dovetails obviously I would want a jig, if not a CNC router!
Of course if one wants to aatempt his living at the high end/commission furniture market then you have to master handcut dovetails but for cabinetry market you can't compete without high production.

Now as for you joasis you are just being plain lazy. :icon_wink:


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## kgregc (Oct 30, 2006)

*Just a hobbiest...*

I have a PC4212, and have had good luck with it...though I'm just learning DTs. I have a lot of box and drawer projects and think it will be a good investment in my hobby.



Greg


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I really want a 24 inch jig, and the PC has a 16 inch one that looks good....so I am still thinking on it.


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## griffdecker (Oct 31, 2006)

Well, I'll buck the trend here -- I have a Leigh jig and love it. Yup, it was pricey, but on my projects I find having different sized dovetails adds to the character of the piece. Plus it works extremely well. Yes, I read the post about hand cutting your own, but the saying I have in my shop is "If I have to use hand tools, I build something else." I'm just terrible with hand tools, and readily admit it, so I find other ways to make my pieces.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2006)

I have a PC 24" jig, and it works great. However, if I were to do it again, I would get a 12" or 16" PC. The 24" takes up a lot of room and is more expensive. I will never use all of the 24 inches.


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## clampman (Oct 20, 2006)

Bois,

When you clamp or screw the jig to a bench, the front of it overhangs enough so that the sides of the drawers can be loaded and clamped into the jig vertically. The fronts and backs of the drawers load horizontally, and butt the sides. You have to insure that the end grain of the sides sticks up to be is exactly flush with the inside face of the front or back.

The front (or back) is offset from the side by half a pin width, and you rout through both at the same time, following the fingers on the jig. So you are cutting completely through the sides (vertical) but leaving a rounded edge on what will become the inside of the side. 

You are at the same time creating basically a "stopped" french dovetail with a rounded end (corresponding to the angle of the router bit) going part way through the thickness of the fronts and backs of the drawer, and stopped by the jig at exactly the point necessary so that when the sides are pounded into the fronts and backs, the outsides of all are flush.

Pbaker,

I agree with you that a PC jig bigger than 12" is a waste of money, and more of a pain than it's worth, unless you are using a Leigh to simulate hand dovetails. For the type of cabinets joasis is building, 12" is plenty.
And as far as making money goes - the only time it pays to make your own finger dovetailed drawer boxes is if you do not have time to buy them already dovetailed and prefinished, and are only doing a few. 

Joasis,
I think you will get real tired of your jig in a very short time. Dovetailing drawers makes the most obnoxious screeching tools we own - routers- schreech about twenty times worse than they do on any other job. The racket is immune to the influence of ear muffs, and having an apprentice do it is even worse unless you send him to a different county. 

Hand cutting dovetails will begin to look more and more appealing the more time you spend in front of that jig. 

By the way, I will be selling surplus Russian astronaut helmets soon that would be a bargain at half the price. Just something to keep in mind.

Have fun.

jimc


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## trim man (Nov 3, 2006)

Bois D' Arc Boy said:


> I suggest using the jig God gave you!
> I know you don't want to hear this, but the worst thing you can do is buy a jig. Most of us tell ourselves "I'll just use the jig until I learn to cut them by hand, since it will takes years to master.." HOGWASH! :yes:
> 
> All it takes is the willingness to spend a few minutes a day for several times a week. This time of year with the nasty weather coming up you could be cutting NICE, TIGHT, ACCURATE dovetails before winter is out.
> ...


Do you mind if I give my customers your phone number so you can espouse to them how wonderful it will be when I bill them for the 100 hours I spent cutting hand cut dovetails on their kitchen/entertainment unit drawers instead of ten hours for the same amount of machine cuts?:laughing:


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I am bidding on a 24 inch PC jig on E bay now...since cedar chests are what i really want to craft, I will go with the 24 since space is not a concern.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

trim man said:


> Do you mind if I give my customers your phone number so you can espouse to them how wonderful it will be when I bill them for the 100 hours I spent cutting hand cut dovetails on their kitchen/entertainment unit drawers instead of ten hours for the same amount of machine cuts?:laughing:


I don't know what point you are trying to make. Did you also read my response to Leo? 
It's almost as if some woodworkers have an axe to grind against other woodworkers who enjoy cutting them by hand. I never thought I would basically get attacked for merely extolling the virtues of hand cut dovetails. :blink: 

I will continue to cut them by hand, and i will not apologize for it. Have fun with your mass-produced, character-lacking, robotic results. I won't critisize you for it! :no: :laughing:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Now on to more important matters. Jay, FW Issue 187 )Dec 2006)tested 15 dovetail jigs. For what it is worth, the Leigh D4R got the _Author's Choice Best Overall_ and the Porter Cable 4212 got _Author's Choice Best Value_. Remember this is one mans opinion.


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## sailorcruiser (Nov 6, 2006)

I have an older Leigh and although it works well, setup can be frustrating and time consuming... I'll be looking for another make soon.


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## Kirk Allen (Nov 7, 2006)

Well here it goes. 

Kevin, I love to hand cut my dovetails but depending on the project at hand I dont hesitate to pull out the awesome D4 Leigh jig. 

I used the jig for all the drawers in the house we sold. Time was a constraint so I whipped out the drawers in one day. Once the kitchen was done we sold the place! :thumbsup: 

The new owners walked through and our realter said the fact the drawers were made the old fasion way (dovetails) they felt confident in all the other wood work we did to the place, which was floors, baseboards, rosets, crown moulding etc. Little did they know a machine cut those old fasion dovetails. :yes:


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

Like all things I do that aren't the best approach, I bought a 16 inch Omni jig (PC), and then someone listed another 24 inch with all the templates...so before this is over, i will have 2 jigs, maybe. You guys that use the Porter Cable jigs have a recommended router bit type or style?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

joasis said:


> I do not want an adjustable jig, but I want one that is quick, easy, and holds both boards at the same time...I think this means it cuts tails and pins at the same time. Thoughts?


When you come down here we are going to make something for a Christmas present for your wife, or at least get it started good while the women are away spending your money in town laughing: ). We are going to use the dovetail spline jig. I'm not saying it will replace a dovetail jig for everyone because it doesn't have the same look - but it's the only jig I use. I am also going to inspect your truck before you leave to make sure my spline jig didn't somehow "fall" into your truck :shifty: because you are going to want one. :yes:


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

My wife is chomping at the bit about the new house already, and my playing tool budget will get cut off soon too....

I want to crank out 3 cedar chests for Christmas this year, and then i will be happy. I can't think of anything to build for my son, so if budget allows, he will get a new .270 this year.


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## Burlkraft (Oct 15, 2006)

Jay.....can I get on that list too??? I've been wanting a 22-250 for a little varment hunting....:santa: :santa: :santa:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

back when cd case were the craze i built my fair share like anyone. . it has the spline joints I love so much


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## Duncan (Nov 5, 2006)

We use the Leigh.

We started out on the Trend jig but the standard sized tails & pins quickly became a pain. If I'm designing and making a custom piece of furniture I want to size the drawer in proportion to the rest of the piece, not be constrained by a set number of pins on my dovetail jig.

In an ideal world, of course, we would cut the joints by hand just like I used to in college and my clients would happily pay the higher prices we would have to charge.

The Leigh enables us to cut dovetails accurately and quickly which look just like hand cut ones. 

Everyone always seems to mention the high cost of the Leigh jig. I actually think it's quite cheap for the job it does! Every professional shop should have one. 

A pity about the plastic cam clamp handles, though. I'm on my third set and even they're f***ed. 

Duncan


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

And lucky day!...now I own the 24 inch jig, with templates...so I have 2 jigs...just wait til my wife hears about this one!.....anyone have a good story I can give her about why I needed 2 of them? Come on now!...we all have to stick together on stuff like this.


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## gedereco (Nov 20, 2006)

If you don't get a jig of ebay . I got a 24" 600mm dovetail jig from SCREWFIX DIRECT. very fast clamps both pieces. perfec dovetail every time.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I now have 2 jigs.....so I guess I will list the 16 in Ebay and try to remember I only wanted one.....LOL. I am looking forward to getting back int he shop and doing the Christmas cedar chests for gifts....


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## oscorner (Dec 10, 2006)

I have the *Rockler Dovetail Jig with Half Blind Dovetail Template with the thru dovetail template. It was on sale for, $99 when I bought it. I haven't perfected my setting on the router, yet, but within the second test cut the tails fit nicely. It has the cam clamps and an offset that makes it simple to use once it is setup. It wont give you the ability to adjust the size of your pins or tails like the Leigh, but it isn't as costly. I hope you enjoy whatever brand you get.*

.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I am going to kep the 24 inch Omnit PC jig....lots to learn, and I have to order the template for through 3/4 inch dovetails, but it looks like what i wanted, for sure....now if anyone wants the 16 inch PC, let me know.


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## billybokay (Oct 30, 2006)

Just like the movie rain man...everything costs "about a hundred dollars". wow, thats a nice boat ..Yeah 100 dollars. Nice big screen t.v... yeah 100 dollars. Nice new thickness planer..yeah


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

After watching the video, I am keeping both jigs...the set up is the hitch, so since Iwill be doing 2 styles, it only makes sense to keep both and leave them set up for the respective use. I am impressed, but less so with the accessory cost, of course.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I think with your fabrication skills Jay, you should marry them together and make a 40" jig so you can make mansize chests. :yes:


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi All

Does anyone out there have some good pics, and/or instructions for using dovetail jigs, or can you suggest a good book?

I have a 12 inch dovetail jig that I would like to try out, but I'm not too sure where to start.

Gerry

PS: To Texas Timbers; I admire your ambition, but I don't think I have the patience to hand cut dovetails. [ I'm also basically lazy]

Gerry


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## Scott Daniel (Jul 14, 2007)

*I like my Leigh*

There are probably some other good choices, I really like the Leigh. Some of my best tool purchases came after some of my worst. What's the expression? Buy cheap. Buy twice.

The jig I got before the Leigh was the Rockler. The most simple adjustments required taking the thing practically apart. If you get a cheap jig, make sure it is very basic and that someone you trust has used it.

Best,

Scott


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## hennebury (Jul 17, 2007)

Check out the Keller jigs, excellent jigs, pricise, no messing around, simple to use.


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## Peter Bosse (Aug 18, 2007)

Sorry Tex, but I can't agree with you. Knowing how to hand-cut dovetails is fine, sort of like learning how to to long hand multiplication and division. But just like moving from that to a calculator, it only makes sense to move to a dovetail jig, particularly for those of us who try to turn a profit from our work. And yes, many if not most jigs cut the pins and tails at the same time. In fact, I don't see how you could possibly cut either of them with a straight bit.

~ Peter


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## GilaJorge (Sep 14, 2007)

I use the 16inch OmniJig and really like it...although set up seemed a bit tedious....once set up...then several of the joints still needed a bit of hand detailing...but man, without the jig...no way...really do like the jig....


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## plumthicket (Aug 16, 2007)

I make keepsake boxes for wedding or new baby keepsake boxes, and these are always hand cut because every box is different. If I'm making drawers or anything else that requires multiple dovetailed boxes, I use a homemade tablesaw jig described by Jim Stack in a Popular Woodworking article. It requires a modified tablesaw blade and a blade change but really does cut tight dovetails quickly once you learn how to use it.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

I visited the Leigh site and was knocked out by the videos. If only because this jig allows infinite variations on size and position of the dovetails, then I would buy. Certainly anyone making boxes, chests etc would find that the Leigh gives that extra professional touch.

Knocked apart an old bureau yesterday. No worries over joints, They had just nailed the pieces together and then veneered over the top.

Only dovetails in the whole piece were two small drawers in the pigeon hole area. These dovetails were barely 1/8" and looked as if made using shaped punch. 
johnep


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## Dovetailer59 (Oct 10, 2007)

*Dovetail Jig PC Omnijis 24"*

_Hello all , anyone that has used the PC Omnijig 24" , I have a few questions concerning bit size & degree . Having used the Rockler jig ( and being totally dissatisfied ) with the set up and adjustments have moved on to the Omnijig . I need to know if you need a 1/2 " 14 degree bit for the half blind template . I ask due to not having a PC bit to use when I received the jig I used a ( Craftsman ) 1/2" bit with unknown degree and the first dovetails cut were loose . The instructions said to lengthen the bit 1/32" to tighten up and after doing so it was still loose . So while waiting on a PC bit to come I thought I would ask someone that has run into this . Any thoughts ?_


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## SPalm (Oct 4, 2007)

I realize that I am a bit late to the party here but,

I have spent the last two years building the most expensive routing jig yet. A home built/designed CNC, version 3. I recently added a tail vise to it to cut dovetails and such. I now can also do detail V-carving on the ends of through tenons (because I can) and make dovetails that look like most any shape you want. Here are some pictures. (Notice that the clamps are from my Leigh D4 :shifty: )

Steve


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hey SPalm

That is a very fine looking piece of gear. Are you doing production work, or just a hobbyist [like me] gone mad? It does look like you have spent a lot of time, and effort perfecting your rig.

Gerry


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## SPalm (Oct 4, 2007)

Hey Gerry, thanks. Just a very serious hobby. It still amazes me every time I run it. I finally have it in shape where I can do some serious work with it. It is very solid, mostly Baltic birch. I just extended the reach and put in the tail vise for edge routing last month. I had so much fun designing and building it, now I have to start using it. Actually it cut a lot of itself out. I really want to try cutting and mortising some chair parts.

Steve


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Spalm

It kind of sounds that you are much like me. Building the equipment is a large part of the fun. Kind of like collecting the wood, or buying the tools. Once in awhile I actually build something, but I hate to rush into it. You certainly have the capability there to do some fine work, once you decide on a project. You might consider putting together plans for other wood workers.

Best Regards:
Gerry


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## yonosey (Aug 11, 2007)

*Incra, Leigh or ...*

Keller? I have an Incra on my router table, but never use it for dovetails. I use the Leigh when I want dovetails that look hand made. When I'm doing tails in a more production mode such as for a kitchen, I use my Keller jig. It's by far the easiest to use and pretty much foolproof. Every time I use the Leigh, I have to get out the manual and learn it all over again. I'm sure if I used it all the time I'd remember how it works, but the Keller is just a matter of getting it out and going to work.


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