# How to bleach walnut?



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

I am refinishing an antique buffet that is primarily mahogany and crotch wood mahogany veneer as you can see from the picture. The problem is with the main drawer which is walnut veneer. This is too strong a contrast to the mahogany.

What I want to do is to bleach the walnut and keep the walnut grain but then stain it a mahogany color to blend in with the rest of the buffet.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Gary


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*will you strip off the existing finish?*

If you strip off the finish it will certainly become lighter. I would do that first and then determine what needs to be done. 

Oxalic acid is the only bleach I have heard of using and I have never used it, so there is no help from me.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/wood-bleach/


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> If you strip off the finish it will certainly become lighter. I would do that first and then determine what needs to be done.
> 
> Oxalic acid is the only bleach I have heard of using and I have never used it, so there is no help from me.
> 
> http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/wood-bleach/


The picture that I included was of the walnut drawer front that had already been stripped. But it did have mineral sprits on it to simulate what it would look like top coated. It is simply too dark as is.

I have some experience with oxalic acid and I don't think that will work here based on what I have read.

I suspect the real solution is 2 part wood bleach also based on research that I have done. The real problem is likely to be buying 2 part wood bleach in a reasonable sized quantity.

Thanks for commenting.

Gary


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Even if you bleach the walnut, it will still have a purplish tint to it. The key will be for you to find a "yellow-orange" stain that will get you closer to the finished mahogany. This may be one of those cases where you will have to mix and match different colors to get what you need, depending on how close you want the walnut to be with the mahogany. Bleaching the walnut will at least get the walnut lighter so you will be able to apply a light stain without going to dark.


----------



## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Let me first say that it looks fine to me. Whoever built it was going for that look.

Ok, with that out of the way, two part wood bleach will get things pretty light, but I don't know that it will change the color to look like mahogany. I think even if you get it white, you won't be able to stain it to match. You'll just be trading one problem for another. I'd also be a little careful bleaching veneer; it might cause it to lift. 

Here's a link to two part bleach.

http://www.kleanstrip.com/product/wood-bleach


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I read the product description*

Lots of cautions:
Part A is sodium hydroxide in solution with...?
Part B is hydrogen peroxide, or mild bleach/antiseptic.

Two or more applications will raise the grain significantly. :thumbdown: It may also lift the veneer...?

Some strippers will lighten walnut in my experience, but maybe not enough for your taste. Randy's advice on stain seems to be the best answer to your predicament.


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

RandyReed said:


> Even if you bleach the walnut, it will still have a purplish tint to it. The key will be for you to find a "yellow-orange" stain that will get you closer to the finished mahogany. This may be one of those cases where you will have to mix and match different colors to get what you need, depending on how close you want the walnut to be with the mahogany. Bleaching the walnut will at least get the walnut lighter so you will be able to apply a light stain without going to dark.


Thanks for the feedback, Randy. I am sure that finding the right color will require some trial and error. It is not necessary to be bang on with the color as long as the overall blend and effect are more subdued than how it looks now.

Still having trouble finding a retailer to buy the wood bleach from.

Gary


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Quickstep said:


> Let me first say that it looks fine to me. Whoever built it was going for that look.
> 
> Ok, with that out of the way, two part wood bleach will get things pretty light, but I don't know that it will change the color to look like mahogany. I think even if you get it white, you won't be able to stain it to match. You'll just be trading one problem for another. I'd also be a little careful bleaching veneer; it might cause it to lift.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the feedback. I am nervous about the bleaching effect on the veneer. The veneer was in fact in very bad shape and I had to do many small glue repairs to fix issues or simply to re-attach the veneer properly.

I sure hope that I am not trading one problem for another. But fair warning.

The Klean Strip bleach would work for me but buying a gallon is overkill and finding out where to buy it is still a mystery.

Gary


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Lots of cautions:
> Part A is sodium hydroxide in solution with...?
> Part B is hydrogen peroxide, or mild bleach/antiseptic.
> 
> ...


Yes there are many parts of this process that are challenging. Fortunately I am dealing with a small part of the overall buffet. I had not considered the grain raising issue so thanks for pointing that out.

Gary


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Does anyone have detailed instructions on how to make 2 part wood bleach?

Gary


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

GAF said:


> Does anyone have detailed instructions on how to make 2 part wood bleach?
> 
> Gary


The Wood-Kote brand bleach Ive used comes in two bottles. 

To use it, mix equal parts of the two liquids in a glass or plastic container. Never put either chemical into a metal vessel. (Some bleaches call for applying the two parts separately. Follow the instructions for the one you're using.) Once mixed, a chemical reaction begins, wherein the hydrogen peroxide, an oxidizer, acts to neutralize the caustic sodium hydroxide. Neutralized, the solution loses its bleaching power, so mix only what you can use immediately. Quickly apply the solution to the wood. A sponge makes a good applicator. Keep the surface uniformly wet to minimize streaking. Rinse the solution off the wood with water. To ensure that no caustic soda remains behind, rinse the wood with a mild acid-white vinegar works well-then rinse it once more with water.

Or you could simply use regular Chlorine Bleach and Hydrogen Peroxide. 

In one bottle, you apply the chlorine bleach and let it soak in for 15 minutes then you would apply hydrogen peroxide out of another bottle to neutralize the bleach. After a few minutes, 5 tops, you simply rinse the wood with plenty of running water to get rid of the chemicals.


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

RandyReed said:


> The Wood-Kote brand bleach Ive used comes in two bottles.
> 
> To use it, mix equal parts of the two liquids in a glass or plastic container. Never put either chemical into a metal vessel. (Some bleaches call for applying the two parts separately. Follow the instructions for the one you're using.) Once mixed, a chemical reaction begins, wherein the hydrogen peroxide, an oxidizer, acts to neutralize the caustic sodium hydroxide. Neutralized, the solution loses its bleaching power, so mix only what you can use immediately. Quickly apply the solution to the wood. A sponge makes a good applicator. Keep the surface uniformly wet to minimize streaking. Rinse the solution off the wood with water. To ensure that no caustic soda remains behind, rinse the wood with a mild acid-white vinegar works well-then rinse it once more with water.
> 
> ...


 Randy, this is very helpful Thank you.

I did a lot of searching and never came up with the Wood Kote brand. What I did find was sold only in gallons for about $100 Canadian.

I have a simple drawer on the buffet to bleach so I am going to try your home made approach and hopefully it will work well enough to solve my problem.

Gary


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

GAF said:


> Randy, this is very helpful Thank you.
> 
> I did a lot of searching and never came up with the Wood Kote brand. What I did find was sold only in gallons for about $100 Canadian.
> 
> ...



I had got that bleach from a customer years ago, but I havent had to bleach anything in several years.

Let us know how it turns out. :thumbsup:


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

RandyReed said:


> I had got that bleach from a customer years ago, but I havent had to bleach anything in several years.
> 
> Let us know how it turns out. :thumbsup:


 Randy I did 2 small tests today and neither of them worked. The bleach that I used was Clorox with only 1.84% sodium hypochlorite which is perhaps too weak.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Gary


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gary, you just can't expect a lot bleaching walnut. Usually all you can do is cut some artificial color that is added. Bleaching the natural color of the wood isn't that practical. Two part wood bleach would be better however if you cut very much of the natural color it gets to looking weird and very undesirable.


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Gary, you just can't expect a lot bleaching walnut. Usually all you can do is cut some artificial color that is added. Bleaching the natural color of the wood isn't that practical. Two part wood bleach would be better however if you cut very much of the natural color it gets to looking weird and very undesirable.


 Steve, thanks for the input. This whole investigation has been very up and down. I thought it was all going to come together but your feedback would suggest otherwise.

I have a real dilemma because the customer is not pleased with the mixed mahogany / walnut look of the buffet.

The product searching would lead me to believe that this is a solvable problem.

Very frustrating.

Gary


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Gary, you just can't expect a lot bleaching walnut. Usually all you can do is cut some artificial color that is added. Bleaching the natural color of the wood isn't that practical. Two part wood bleach would be better however if you cut very much of the natural color it gets to looking weird and very undesirable.


I pointed this out in post #4 above. You cant bleach walnut but so much. It will take a "yellow orange" to pull those colors in closer together. Alot of trial and error ahead to achieve this. 

The walnut was meant to give the mahogany contrast on that piece, but I would think that the mahogany should be darker in line with the walnut. i think you would be better off discussing this with the customer and advise them to darken the mahogany to be more in line with the walnut in stead of vice versa.


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

RandyReed said:


> I pointed this out in post #4 above. You cant bleach walnut but so much. It will take a "yellow orange" to pull those colors in closer together. Alot of trial and error ahead to achieve this.
> 
> The walnut was meant to give the mahogany contrast on that piece, but I would think that the mahogany should be darker in line with the walnut. i think you would be better off discussing this with the customer and advise them to darken the mahogany to be more in line with the walnut in stead of vice versa.


 I am not sure what my next step is since darkening the mahogany is not likely an option here. I may end up removing the walnut veneer completely.

Gary


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

GAF said:


> I am not sure what my next step is since darkening the mahogany is not likely an option here. I may end up removing the walnut veneer completely.
> 
> Gary


If you can spray a dye stain, you can spray a straight yellow dye over the walnut and that will knock down the purple, then go from there. If you cant, and darkening the Mahogany is not an option, then removing the walnut from the piece may be the only other way to fix the contrast problem.


----------



## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Why don't you just get some mahogany veneer and re-veneer the drawer front? It would be much easier to "antique" the new veneer than to try and match walnut to mahogany. And I agree with you, I think walnut was a poor choice for the front. Almost looks like the drawer came from an entirely different piece of furniture.


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

RandyReed said:


> If you can spray a dye stain, you can spray a straight yellow dye over the walnut and that will knock down the purple, then go from there. If you cant, and darkening the Mahogany is not an option, then removing the walnut from the piece may be the only other way to fix the contrast problem.


 
Randy, sadly I cannot spray.

I am still investigating bleaching a bit more. If I can get some of the right chemicals (sodium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide) I will do some additional testing. Using chlorine bleach did nothing to lighten the natural colour of the wood. And I have not been able to find out what concentration the chemicals need to be.

Gary


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

BZawat said:


> Why don't you just get some mahogany veneer and re-veneer the drawer front? It would be much easier to "antique" the new veneer than to try and match walnut to mahogany. And I agree with you, I think walnut was a poor choice for the front. Almost looks like the drawer came from an entirely different piece of furniture.


 That would be an interesting alternative but I think it's outside my skill set especially with all the intricate ornamental design carved into the wood. Thanks for the feedback.

Gary


----------



## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

Quickstep said:


> Let me first say that it looks fine to me. Whoever built it was going for that look.
> 
> Ok, with that out of the way, two part wood bleach will get things pretty light, but I don't know that it will change the color to look like mahogany. I think even if you get it white, you won't be able to stain it to match. You'll just be trading one problem for another. I'd also be a little careful bleaching veneer; it might cause it to lift.
> 
> ...


 Wasn't going to reply to this but thought I may throw my two cent in 
IMHO of doing years of refinishing you would be better off trying to get the mahogany to match the walnut than the other way around.
I know that's not an option but just the way it is.You could strip the finish off of the mahogany and use some toners to match the whole piece with the walnut but the other way around just isn'nt going to work well.I would suggest just making some new drawers with a mahogany face.
It would be a lot less time consuming and cheaper.


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

mako1 said:


> Wasn't going to reply to this but thought I may throw my two cent in
> IMHO of doing years of refinishing you would be better off trying to get the mahogany to match the walnut than the other way around.
> I know that's not an option but just the way it is.You could strip the finish off of the mahogany and use some toners to match the whole piece with the walnut but the other way around just isn'nt going to work well.I would suggest just making some new drawers with a mahogany face.
> It would be a lot less time consuming and cheaper.


 Wow, all the options that are coming forward seem to beyond my reach. I may have to try some limited re-veneering to save the project.

Thanks for commenting.

Gary


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GAF said:


> Randy, sadly I cannot spray.
> 
> I am still investigating bleaching a bit more. If I can get some of the right chemicals (sodium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide) I will do some additional testing. Using chlorine bleach did nothing to lighten the natural colour of the wood. And I have not been able to find out what concentration the chemicals need to be.
> 
> Gary


You might try peroxide but I wouldn't use sodium hydroxide unless you make the choice of re-veneering. Sodium hydroxide is the chemical used in dip tanks to strip the finish off. It has a nasty habit of removing the veneer. While on the subject especially don't use sodium hydroxide on oak. It makes the grain crack open. I stripped a screen door frame for someone thinking it was pine. It had many coats of paint on it and after stripping it ruined the door. The cracks in the wood was big enough you could stick the point of a pencil in.


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> You might try peroxide but I wouldn't use sodium hydroxide unless you make the choice of re-veneering. Sodium hydroxide is the chemical used in dip tanks to strip the finish off. It has a nasty habit of removing the veneer. While on the subject especially don't use sodium hydroxide on oak. It makes the grain crack open. I stripped a screen door frame for someone thinking it was pine. It had many coats of paint on it and after stripping it ruined the door. The cracks in the wood was big enough you could stick the point of a pencil in.


 Thanks Steve. I learn something every time I use this great service. Sadly more than I want to know at times because of the pitfalls involved with refinishing. 

Gary


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GAF said:


> Thanks Steve. I learn something every time I use this great service. Sadly more than I want to know at times because of the pitfalls involved with refinishing.
> 
> Gary


At one time I had my business located in a row of antique shops. One neighbor sold only pine furniture. The way he was getting most of the pine furniture he was selling was import walnut veneered furniture from Europe. He would soak the veneered furniture in a dip tank for about an hour and when he removed it the veneer would just peal off. Then he washed off the pine core wood and allow it to dry. Then the sanded the pine and waxed it with Bri-wax and it was ready to sell. I believe in his case he was heating the sodium hydroxide solution though. The tank I had I used cold but in Texas that was nearly 100 degrees in summer.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Remember Formby's Furniture refinisher?*

I just recently refinish a small box that had some serious coats of "something" on it, but I was afraid at the time I would ruin it. I tredi lacquer thinner, but that didn't work all that wel, just made it run and gummy. So I had this old can of Formby's and a green scrubby from 3 M and it worked like a charm. The scrubby gathered up the old finish, and at the same time leveled it out and evened out the stain.

After it dried long enough.... I sprayed a top coat of Min Wax Fast Dry Poly. I waited for 2 few days and it finally was dry to the touch. I waited another day and gave it 2 more coats and now it's just great. It still has the dents and dings under the finish, but it looks original in my opinion.

Formby's may be your answer here, I donno? It may draw out the darker stain in the Walnut. You don't want to lift the veneer for sure. :no: They may have a Tech Service who can answer that question? Maybe someone hare has used it on veneer and will have experience?


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> At one time I had my business located in a row of antique shops. One neighbor sold only pine furniture. The way he was getting most of the pine furniture he was selling was import walnut veneered furniture from Europe. He would soak the veneered furniture in a dip tank for about an hour and when he removed it the veneer would just peal off. Then he washed off the pine core wood and allow it to dry. Then the sanded the pine and waxed it with Bri-wax and it was ready to sell. I believe in his case he was heating the sodium hydroxide solution though. The tank I had I used cold but in Texas that was nearly 100 degrees in summer.


Steve that is an interesting story. Who would have though that was a way to get pine furniture.

I have given up on bleaching the wood and I am going to try re-veneering with mahogany but I have never done that before.

Gary


----------



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> I just recently refinish a small box that had some serious coats of "something" on it, but I was afraid at the time I would ruin it. I tredi lacquer thinner, but that didn't work all that wel, just made it run and gummy. So I had this old can of Formby's and a green scrubby from 3 M and it worked like a charm. The scrubby gathered up the old finish, and at the same time leveled it out and evened out the stain.
> 
> After it dried long enough.... I sprayed a top coat of Min Wax Fast Dry Poly. I waited for 2 few days and it finally was dry to the touch. I waited another day and gave it 2 more coats and now it's just great. It still has the dents and dings under the finish, but it looks original in my opinion.
> 
> Formby's may be your answer here, I donno? It may draw out the darker stain in the Walnut. You don't want to lift the veneer for sure. :no: They may have a Tech Service who can answer that question? Maybe someone hare has used it on veneer and will have experience?


 Thanks for the interesting approach but I am going to give a shot at harvesting some antique mahogany and then applying that to the drawer face and hope that it will blend in properly with the rest of the buffet.

Gary


----------

