# Harbor Freight Saw blades?



## Star1pup (Aug 19, 2011)

I think I need a new blade for my 10" table saw. Are Harbor Freight blades any good? If not what do you recommend?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

They're kind of loud but they cut fine.


----------



## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

I use Freud.


----------



## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

UnisawGuy said:


> I use Freud.


Yes on the Freud. Good quality carbide and can be sharpened many times. I buy some things at HF but a table saw blade would not be one of them.


----------



## Allman27 (Feb 10, 2013)

I would use Harbor Freight blades when you want more noise and a non finish cut.


----------



## Lynn1953 (Jul 4, 2012)

+1 on freud. I used cheaper blades a long time. Put a freud rip blade from Home Depot and I am happy. The difference is amazing and it improved my saw's performance and quality of cut. Harbor Freight is ok for many things but I think not for blades or sheet sand paper.


----------



## Star1pup (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll head to Home Depot for a Freud.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Star1pup said:


> Thanks for the info. I guess I'll head to Home Depot for a Freud.


Good choice. Although I must say, I left the OEM blade on my Harbor Freight 12" slider and was pleasantly surprised by how good of a cut it does make. I use that saw mostly for construction purposed and not anything particularly detailed so cut quality isn't high on my priority list with it. If/when it does need a new blade, I will likely go with a Freud though as Home Depot does carry one with a TCG grind which I really should have for what I use it for. :smile:


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

I dont think id trust a table saw blade from harbor freight. Seems like to big a risk for me, a piece of carbide flying off at 178 miles an hour is rather worrisome. If youre looking for budget blades, ive used and likes some of the crosscut and rip blades from craftsman and irwin. $20 range and the cuts are pretty good. Maybe not finish quality, but hey, $20 a blade. Theres also some delta combination blade ive heard fantastic things about, but i cant remember the model for the life of me. Do me a favor though: Sears has a combination blade, item number 00917029000P, runs 44.99. Buy it, use it, revew it and report back, i want to know if its any good


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

epicfail48 said:


> I dont think id trust a table saw blade from harbor freight. Seems like to big a risk for me, a piece of carbide flying off at 178 miles an hour is rather worrisome. If youre looking for budget blades, ive used and likes some of the crosscut and rip blades from craftsman and irwin. $20 range and the cuts are pretty good. Maybe not finish quality, but hey, $20 a blade. Theres also some delta combination blade ive heard fantastic things about, but i cant remember the model for the life of me. Do me a favor though: Sears has a combination blade, item number 00917029000P, runs 44.99. Buy it, use it, revew it and report back, i want to know if its any good


 If you're looking for a good combination blade, this one is pretty good at about $10 less:
http://www.amazon.com/D1050X-Diablo-50-tooth-Combination-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ2Z#productDetails
Not as good as the Freud Fusion (P410) but about half the money. 
Considering that Sears doesn't actually make anything, it wouldn't surprise me if the Diablo isn't the same as the Sears except for the black paint. Good luck finding specs like plate thickness and hook angle on the Craftsman blade.:smile:


----------



## minuteman62-64 (Mar 15, 2012)

I've got a HF 8" dado set that I'm very happy with. On the other hand, I have one of their metal cutting bandsaws and found their metal cutting bandsaw blades are crap.


----------



## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

A 10" blade at 4000rpm has a rim speed of about 120 mph.



epicfail48 said:


> Seems like to big a risk for me, a piece of carbide flying off at 178 miles an hour is rather worrisome.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

In more than 40 years of woodworking I've used about as many cheap blades as expensive blades and I think I could probably count the number of carbide teeth that have come off on one hand. I don't believe I've ever seen one that just came off. They were a result of hitting something metal embedded into the wood.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> In more than 40 years of woodworking I've used about as many cheap blades as expensive blades and I think I could probably count the number of carbide teeth that have come off on one hand. I don't believe I've ever seen one that just came off. They were a result of hitting something metal embedded into the wood.


I agree Steve... seen a lot of broken teeth caused by what you described. Installing a carbide tooth blade on backwards, as some advocate for cutting non-ferrous, would/could knock the tooth off if the soldering is marginal though.:smile:


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I tried one of the cheap blades, not from HF but from somewhere else. The teeth didn't fly off but the first cut made they crumbled to pieces.


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

UnisawGuy said:


> A 10" blade at 4000rpm has a rim speed of about 120 mph.


Nope. 178 at 3000 rpm, so 4000rpm would be 237mph.

http://www.endmemo.com/physics/rpmlinear.php

Check if you don't believe me


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I didn't believe you*



epicfail48 said:


> Nope. 178 at 3000 rpm, so 4000rpm would be 237mph.
> 
> http://www.endmemo.com/physics/rpmlinear.php
> 
> Check if you don't believe me


Entered 5" radius
4000 RPM
Calulate for Miles per Hour =118.99 MPH 

Quoting unisaw guy:
A 10" blade at 4000rpm has a rim speed of about 120 mph.

Check again if you don't believe me.


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> Entered 5" radius
> 4000 RPM
> Calulate for Miles per Hour =118.99 MPH
> 
> ...


At the same rpm a the rim of a circle will be moving faster than an interior point, and the rim of a smaller circle will move slower than the rim of a larger circle.the fact that you put the wrong numbers into a calculator to get the answer you believe is correct doesn't make you correct, and neither does an incorrect source. Unisaw guy was wrong, the math proves that


----------



## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

For the last year and 1/2, I have had a Marples 50T blade on my table saw. It has worked well for me.


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

And nows the time when I apologize. It took be a bit to realize that in the 2 different calculations I used, one needed radius and one needed diameter, and I used diameter for both. My bad woodenthings


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

How are you guys figuring the mph of the blades. I come up with a different figure. The circumfrence of a 5" blade would be 15.708" and at 4000 rpm it would travel 5236' per min, which I get 59.5 miles per hour. I get 119 mph on a 10" blade.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You entered the wrong info*



epicfail48 said:


> At the same rpm a the rim of a circle will be moving faster than an interior point, and the rim of a smaller circle will move slower than the rim of a larger circle.the fact that you put the wrong numbers into a calculator to get the answer you believe is correct doesn't make you correct, and neither does an incorrect source. Unisaw guy was wrong, the math proves that


The program posted calls for the radius, not the diameter, A 10" blade has a 5" radius...unless I'm an idiot.

http://www.endmemo.com/physics/rpmlinear.php

Originally Posted by *woodnthings*  
_Entered 5" radius
4000 RPM
Calulate for Miles per Hour =118.99 MPH 

Quoting unisaw guy:
A 10" blade at 4000rpm has a rim speed of about 120 mph.

Check again if you don't believe me._


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> The program posted calls for the radius, not the diameter, A 10" blade has a 5" radius...unless I'm an idiot.
> 
> http://www.endmemo.com/physics/rpmlinear.php
> 
> ...


Double checked my math mate, apologized a few posts back. Like i said, sorry bout that, ill go back to eating my good sized plate of crow


----------



## PhilipCollier (Jan 2, 2012)

I have had the 10" blade from HF that didnt lose teeth but it flexed badly causing rounded miters. Switch the blade to a cheap Irwin and it cuts fine. I also had a 4.5 inch blade for a cordless circ saw from HF. Lost 9 of its teeth by the third use. A dewalt blade had replaced it and it is still sharp after months of pallet cutting. There is the possibility I whacked a nail with the first blade and didnt notice. I tend to use very little force cutting pallets up.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jschaben said:


> If you're looking for a good combination blade, this one is pretty good at about $10 less:
> http://www.amazon.com/D1050X-Diablo-50-tooth-Combination-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ2Z#productDetails
> Not as good as the Freud Fusion (P410) but about half the money.
> Considering that Sears doesn't actually make anything, it wouldn't surprise me if the Diablo isn't the same as the Sears except for the black paint. Good luck finding specs like plate thickness and hook angle on the Craftsman blade.:smile:


I got this from a Sears higher up kind of guy.

Sears has to set their own market price. They go to the manufacturer and work out products per what they feel their market will bare. They make compromises in the product to make it fit their market. That may require one less row of stitches in a shirt and one less hardness in a carbide tip. To the comsumer the tool or shirt may look exactly the same. But sadly they are not. 

Al


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Steve Neul said:


> In more than 40 years of woodworking I've used about as many cheap blades as expensive blades and I think I could probably count the number of carbide teeth that have come off on one hand. I don't believe I've ever seen one that just came off. They were a result of hitting something metal embedded into the wood.


I did. I've had tips fly off. Oh wait a minute. I did hit something. Never mind.

Al


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

epicfail48 said:


> I dont think id trust a table saw blade from harbor freight. Seems like to big a risk for me, a piece of carbide flying off at 178 miles an hour is rather worrisome. If youre looking for budget blades, ive used and likes some of the crosscut and rip blades from craftsman and irwin. $20 range and the cuts are pretty good. Maybe not finish quality, but hey, $20 a blade. Theres also some delta combination blade ive heard fantastic things about, but i cant remember the model for the life of me. Do me a favor though: Sears has a combination blade, item number 00917029000P, runs 44.99. Buy it, use it, revew it and report back, i want to know if its any good


My guess is that how they apply the tip to the blade is prolly not where they scrimp to save money to make the lade cheaper.

Al


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Star1pup said:


> Thanks for the info. I guess I'll head to Home Depot for a Freud.


I do the same. At that price you can use them and pitch them rather than try to get half the cut with them after they have been sharpened.

Al


----------



## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

a tiny peice of metal going 100mph does not really scare me... maybe it should? with eye protection, the lack of mass would preclude it from doing any damage, MIGHT break the skin... but only a knick before it bounced away. I can safely say my shins have taken a worse beating from rocks escaping my lawn mower.

And what are those chances? Id think the likely place for it to separate would be during the "cut" but it cuts rotating down and it would sepeerate harmlessly into the shroud. so for it to hang on by a thread and make the full rotation and then release only at the very top of the movement and hit your exposed skin area... One in a million shot doc.

Id be more concerned with the cut itself, and its durability (if I have to replace it more often, I might not save anything).


----------



## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Safety issues aside, how well and how long a blade cuts will depend on the grade of carbide used, so you get what you pay for and sometimes you are just lucky you got the best of the worst.


----------



## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Sorry, but for the life of me I cannot understand why someone would go to harbor freight for table saw blades.


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

bauerbach said:


> a tiny peice of metal going 100mph does not really scare me... maybe it should? with eye protection, the lack of mass would preclude it from doing any damage, MIGHT break the skin... but only a knick before it bounced away. I can safely say my shins have taken a worse beating from rocks escaping my lawn mower.
> 
> And what are those chances? Id think the likely place for it to separate would be during the "cut" but it cuts rotating down and it would sepeerate harmlessly into the shroud. so for it to hang on by a thread and make the full rotation and then release only at the very top of the movement and hit your exposed skin area... One in a million shot doc.
> 
> Id be more concerned with the cut itself, and its durability (if I have to replace it more often, I might not save anything).


A bullet is also a tiny piece of metal, and it doesn't have the advantage of being nearly as hard as diamond with a razor sharp edge. Sure, its a one in a million shot, but I can't say I'd want to be that one


----------



## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

wericha said:


> Sorry, but for the life of me I cannot understand why someone would go to harbor freight for table saw blades.


That may be exactly what they want you to think... When possible, judge the product on its merit, not how much markup they have into marketing.

Though looking at their 10" combo blade, $20 bucks and a stamped tension slot? Doesnt seem like much of a value there... I paid 20 bucks for a delta blade with laser slot. Maybe if the HF blade were 10 bucks I could see some temptation.


----------



## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> A bullet is also a tiny piece of metal, and it doesn't have the advantage of being nearly as hard as diamond with a razor sharp edge. Sure, its a one in a million shot, but I can't say I'd want to be that one


a bullet weighs alot more and travels a hell of alot faster.

to put it into context, an average BB travels somewhere north of 250mph, and I would venture to say that it is perhaps slightly larger than the average saw tip.

Im not volunteering to get shot in the face by a BB gun, but its near the bottom of workshop risks that Im worried about. Best protection would be to wear a face visor, or stand out of the plane of the saw blade where possible.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

FrankC said:


> Safety issues aside, how well and how long a blade cuts will depend on the grade of carbide used, so you get what you pay for and sometimes you are just lucky you got the best of the worst.


I don't know why I never get a good cut with a cheap blade. So many here seem too.

Al


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

wericha said:


> Sorry, but for the life of me I cannot understand why someone would go to harbor freight for table saw blades.


Price is more important don't you know.

Al


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> That may be exactly what they want you to think... When possible, judge the product on its merit, not how much markup they have into marketing.
> 
> Though looking at their 10" combo blade, $20 bucks and a stamped tension slot? Doesnt seem like much of a value there... I paid 20 bucks for a delta blade with laser slot. Maybe if the HF blade were 10 bucks I could see some temptation.


Is that what you think drives the price up?

Al


----------



## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

I like this guy's videos - he makes sense. This one on saw blades was pretty good, and he has a few others, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ1_gweqxrM&list=UUMd9JgqSESwyuOs0yuSTlEw

Personally, I will buy cheap(er) tools, but I won't buy cheap blades/bits/etc. The blades and bits are really the only thing to contact your workpiece, so I don't scrimp. And, a nice Freud blade at HD is about $20 more than the Harbor Freight blades, so the discount isn't worth it to me.


----------



## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> That may be exactly what they want you to think... When possible, judge the product on its merit, not how much markup they have into marketing.
> 
> Though looking at their 10" combo blade, $20 bucks and a stamped tension slot? Doesnt seem like much of a value there... I paid 20 bucks for a delta blade with laser slot. Maybe if the HF blade were 10 bucks I could see some temptation.


Seriously? Do you honestly think *ANY* $20 10" table saw blade has any real value at all?

Ok, disclaimer here: I do this for a living. I do not scrimp on tools. The cheapest table saw blade I own (12 blades at last count) was around $95. I will freely admit I am a tool snob, but I learned a long time ago that there is no savings in buying cheap crappy tools. That being said, expecting to get a 10" blade that gives reasonably consistent cuts for $20 is foolishness, especially when it comes from harbor freight. Freud blades are not that much more expensive but will give you considerably better performance. Better quality control, better steel plates, and carbide thicker than warm Jello are not marketing markups, they are reasons to buy something that will last more than 30 seconds like a harbor freight blade.

I'll now step off my soap box.............


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Hold on I'm going for popcorn.

Al


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

wericha said:


> Sorry, but for the life of me I cannot understand why someone would go to harbor freight for table saw blades.


I have one on my table saw right now. I don't have a saw sharpen shop near me so I buy cheap blades and throw them in a box when they get dull and buy a new blade. The blades work fine as long as you wear hearing protection when running the saw.


----------



## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

wericha said:


> Seriously? Do you honestly think *ANY* $20 10" table saw blade has any real value at all?
> 
> Ok, disclaimer here: I do this for a living. I do not scrimp on tools. The cheapest table saw blade I own (12 blades at last count) was around $95. I will freely admit I am a tool snob, but I learned a long time ago that there is no savings in buying cheap crappy tools. That being said, expecting to get a 10" blade that gives reasonably consistent cuts for $20 is foolishness, especially when it comes from harbor freight. Freud blades are not that much more expensive but will give you considerably better performance. Better quality control, better steel plates, and carbide thicker than warm Jello are not marketing markups, they are reasons to buy something that will last more than 30 seconds like a harbor freight blade.
> 
> I'll now step off my soap box.............


well, I work in corporate finance, and occasionally I stay at a holiday inn and slum it in marketing.

I agree completely that there is no savings in buying crappy tools. 

but I also know that me and my kind LOVE when customers think cheap = crappy. 

many times it does... but sometimes it doesnt.

How many tools do we know about that are carbon copies of each other and get sold by multiple brands at multiple prices? Happens ALL the time in every category.

price is dictated by how much you can sell it for, not how much it costs to make or how good it is. I dont have to have a superior product, I just have to convince you that I do. Id suggest you not make my job any easier than it already is, keep an open mind about the occasional hidden gems.

*not saying HF saw blades are hidden gems, but they could be...*


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I have a close friend who was a Kmart big wig. They know their market and pursue product manufactures by telling them what "their" market will bare. Such as, a white dress shirt can be sold for $14 dollars. They are willing to pay the vender less than half of that. If the vender wants the business. They in turn figure out how to make a white dress shirt and also make money doing it. 

So the fabric buyer uses a lighter weight fabric.

Down in stitching the shirt goes from double needle to single. Also lighter thread.

Less tayloring, cheaper buttons. Less quality in sewing them on. Fits and feels like a uniform type shirt. 

But hey what a deal for $14.

When I have lunch with the HF guys. I bet I will here the same story only in nuts bolts and plastic.

Al


----------



## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

Al B Thayer said:


> Hold on I'm going for popcorn. Al


Get me some Good and Plenty while you're there


----------



## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

Al B Thayer said:


> I have a close friend who was a Kmart big wig. They know their market and pursue product manufactures by telling them what "their" market will bare. Such as, a white dress shirt can be sold for $14 dollars. They are willing to pay the vender less than half of that. If the vender wants the business. They in turn figure out how to make a white dress shirt and also make money doing it. So the fabric buyer uses a lighter weight fabric. Down in stitching the shirt goes from double needle to single. Also lighter thread. Less tayloring, cheaper buttons. Less quality in sewing them on. Fits and feels like a uniform type shirt. But hey what a deal for $14. When I have lunch with the HF guys. I bet I will here the same story only in nuts bolts and plastic. Al


When you have lunch with the HF guys, have it super sized. Remember there's Good and Plenty for dessert.


----------



## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

I often buy "house" brands at the grocery store as they can be just as good as the big names. Price does not always dictate quality. I'm not a brand whore, but I do find specific brands will tend to have the quality and customer service I require. That's why most of the equipment in my shop is Powermatic, Jet, Delta, and Crescent. 

There is a huge difference between less expensive and cheap. Harbor freight is simply cheap. I have too much pride in the work I produce to use cheap crap from harbor freight.


----------



## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

I pretty much agree with the "avoid cheap tools" sentiment. However, price and quality don't always correlate. If you look at product reviews in the various mags you will often see an expensive tool that performs like a cheap one. Marketing is not a substitute for quality.

The way I select products to purchase (be they tools or electronics or what ever) is to read reviews and ask questions in places like this. The experiences of you guys is 10X more valuable than some slick brochure or a sales guy's pitch. Of course there is no substitute for thinking it through.


----------



## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I have a close friend who was a Kmart big wig. They know their market and pursue product manufactures by telling them what "their" market will bare. Such as, a white dress shirt can be sold for $14 dollars. They are willing to pay the vender less than half of that. If the vender wants the business. They in turn figure out how to make a white dress shirt and also make money doing it.
> 
> So the fabric buyer uses a lighter weight fabric.
> 
> ...


sometimes your right. and sometimes... they can hand them the exact same shirt that they sold to Ralph Lauren with a different tag because Ralph lauren put a 95% markup on their polo shirt.

This is more common when the product is already outsourced. I believe freud owns their own factories, so your not likely to find a rebranded frued blade. Whoever does make HF blades probably makes blades for many brands though. If we knew their client list, it is possible that some might be surprising.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

PhilBa said:


> I pretty much agree with the "avoid cheap tools" sentiment. However, price and quality don't always correlate. If you look at product reviews in the various mags you will often see an expensive tool that performs like a cheap one. Marketing is not a substitute for quality.
> 
> The way I select products to purchase (be they tools or electronics or what ever) is to read reviews and ask questions in places like this. The experiences of you guys is 10X more valuable than some slick brochure or a sales guy's pitch. Of course there is no substitute for thinking it through.


I don't know Phil. Lots of cheap crappy tools praised here. 

Al


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> sometimes your right. and sometimes... they can hand them the exact same shirt that they sold to Ralph Lauren with a different tag because Ralph lauren put a 95% markup on their polo shirt.
> 
> This is more common when the product is already outsourced. I believe freud owns their own factories, so your not likely to find a rebranded frued blade. Whoever does make HF blades probably makes blades for many brands though. If we knew their client list, it is possible that some might be surprising.


You are never going to find a Polo shirt with a different tag on it for less. There is no truth to that or any reason such could occur. 

I have never seen a clone tool that had the same quality as the real deal. 

Al


----------

