# Going hourly rate for custom woodwork?



## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I've been woodworking for a few years but so far have just been doing the work for myself. Today I was asked by my sister to put together some signs for the graphic design firm she works for. I said I would, then she told me to let her know what my hour rate was. I'm stumped on that front... whats the going rate for general woodshop work?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Most wouldn't like mine if I told them, so I always give a lump sum, turn key price.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

In my area shop rates vary from $50 to $100 per hour. I'm in that range.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

As much as I can get and not have a guilty conscience.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

I always bid the job for price.That way there are no issues at the end when it's time to get paid.If you bid it to low then you loose but the customer know's what the final cost is.If you bit it right then you make money and the customer is still happy.It was an agreed upon price for a certain product.
You need to take the 
material cost +labor costs+ overhead+ profit.
Don't forgrt to include incidentals in the material cost.(glue,screws,sandpaper,gas) Also don't forget to include in the labor costs,time to pick up materials and deliver,time to draw up plans and things like that.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GISer3546 said:


> I've been woodworking for a few years but so far have just been doing the work for myself. Today I was asked by my sister to put together some signs for the graphic design firm she works for. I said I would, then she told me to let her know what my hour rate was. I'm stumped on that front... whats the going rate for general woodshop work?


The rate would vary all over the country and a fully equipped shop would have a lot more overhead to figure in on the price so you can't really charge their rates. I'm sure you have some idea how much you want for yourself per hour. Just add to that for wear and tear on your tools and the utilities used.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Don't confuse shop rate with hourly wage rates. Shop rates have to include all forms of overhead, including wages, other than specific job costs. Specific job costs, such as materials, finishes, outsourced services, and expendables are in addition to the shop rate.

Shop rate is the amount of money you need per hour to perform all the processes involved in the project. That includes equipment, shop rent, utilities, vehicle expenses, taxes, insurance, advertising, outside professional services (legal, accounting, etc), wages, and most importantly profit. When we develop a bid, a complete listing of all the materials needed for the project is detailed, a breakdown of the time needed to complete each step of the project is documented, and then "cushions" are added to both for mistakes/miscalculations. The total time projected is multiplied by the shop rate and the material costs are then added. The total is the bid amount.

Simply charging your hourly wage plus "wear and tear" is a sure way to never make your business successful.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

That depends, how much do you value your time?


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Rates vary a lot from place to place. Around here SMALL custom WW shops get $80-100/hr, basically auto mechanic rates. A top notch general carpenter in construction will get $20-30/hr.

Look at what your doing and which of those two examples its closer to. Then, think about your skill and what you really think youre worth.


Its a tough thing to figure if you have no experience. Most of us professional/semi-professional folks on here would do a lump estimate for a job. In other words, we have enough experience to generally get a pretty guess on the time it would take to do the project, and most add in some 'independent variable' time on top of that. 

If you are wanting this to be more than a one time thing then you need to do some skill and time management evaluation on yourself. Knowing what you can and cant do, and the time it takes you to do it are essential.


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## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

On the rare occasion I take custom works this is way I charge.



WarnerConstInc. said:


> Most wouldn't like mine if I told them, so I always give a lump sum, turn key price.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

seems like the hourly rate would depend on how fast you work... the concept of a rate seems like an incentive to work as slow as possible... If I was looking for a contractor I think I would want to know the lump sum price... 

Otherwise pick the cheaper hourly rate than have them take twice as many hours.

FWIW, if I do it as a hobby, and its my sister... I dont think I could charge, even if she offered.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

The only time we quote a shop rate to the customer is if we are asked to do piece work, which is rare. We are not a production shop and seldom take on production projects.

If you take the time to develop a good and true shop rate for your business it helps maintain consistent pricing for your customers. It also helps you identify where you are spending your time and money. We found a couple of ways to reduce costs in supplies, which simply means more profit.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Hourly shop rates really have little bearing on the end price and are really for your own reference in pricing the job. 
For example if one shop has a huge shaper and can do a job in one pass they might charge $90 an hour whereas the small shop with a router in a table takes three passes they would charge $30 an hour.
The first shop charges the customer for one hour, the second for three, so it is a $90 job in both cases all else being equal.


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## BioNerd (Dec 7, 2014)

How much money you need monthly to pay all your bills? 6k for example?
Then you want to make 8-9k a month to have enogh for taxes. 
If its 8k, means 2k a week which is 50/hr. That is bare minimum. 

Can the network you are trying to reach pay that?


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

how much you need is an... interesting way to determine pricing lol.

Usually you determine how much you can charge, then work backwards to see if theres a margin worth pursuing.

As for how much you can charge, getting a few quotes from other shops would be the easiest way to find the going rate for that work in your area. (and in all honesty, if you charge more than that, your not doing your sister ANY favors)

Of course, you'll probably find that as a hobbyist, the knowledge and tooling allow the big boys to work much more efficiently and your $/hour will be peanuts.


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## BioNerd (Dec 7, 2014)

bauerbach said:


> how much you need is an... interesting way to determine pricing lol..


 Oh I misread the first post


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

Appreciate the input guys. Its a bare simple project and is also getting my name out there. $50/hour seems to do that while still showing my time is worth something.


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## BaldEagle2012 (Jan 25, 2012)

(FWIW, if I do it as a hobby, and its my sister... I dont think I could charge, even if she offered.)

{Today I was asked by my sister to put together some signs for the graphic design firm she works for.}

He stated it was for the firm his sister works for. Therefore he should charge the firm for the work being done. 
I don't charge family either. But in this case, it is not for the sister.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

*it varies*

My sign on the shop wall says "Hourly Rate $50.00". But the numbers hang from little hooks on the bottom of the sign and I can change them to whatever I want depending on who is comming by.

I am mostly retired now and much of the time I work for free anymore. 

Bret


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## Anguspapa (May 4, 2013)

GISer3546 said:


> Appreciate the input guys. Its a bare simple project and is also getting my name out there. $50/hour seems to do that while still showing my time is worth something.


I think you have the right idea and so does everyone else. As time moves on try to bid the job and if your bed is higher than what it costs reduce it. That makes the customer happy. As time moves on you'll catcher self doing the work faster and faster and more profit when you bid it. If it's an hourly you lose it. I've learned this because I work construction. Good luck.

Eric


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## walnutavenue (Nov 9, 2011)

Many, many times I've heard the rule of thumb "materials multiplied by 4." As an engineer, I just can't live with guessing like that. I estimate... I don't guess.

After a few years of carefully tracking time and costs to determine shop rates I have a good grasp on how to bid projects, and it amazes me how often the "materials x4" rule is quite reasonable. People will give you a thousand reasons and thousand examples of how that's a bad way to estimate, and they're right. But if you have nothing else to go on it's a good way to start.


I can't speak for what your time (or mine) is worth, but I can advise you on what your time _costs._ I encourage you to start tracking your time and your expenses. The sooner you do, the sooner you know what your time and your shop costs you.

You could study for a long time on the finer parts of overhead costs, but for your purposes a very simple (All Indirect Costs)/(All your time). Direct costs are the ones that are easily measured and attributed to a particular project. Lumber, hinges, drawer pulls, etc. are direct costs. Indirect costs are the things that go into that project but you don't want to take the trouble to measure, like stain, polyurethane, glue, dowel pins, screws. You could count the screws and charge the customer for each one... but you have to draw the line somewhere.

If you spent $9000 last year in shop expenses and you spent 400 hours in the shop, then your shop cost $22.50 per hour. That's how much you need to charge to cover all your expenses. It's up to you to choose your personal labor rate and your profit. 

Personally, I really enjoy tracking those numbers and knowing exactly where that over/under rate is. When I write an invoice I know exactly how much of that will pay the bills, how much goes to improving the shop, and how much goes into my pocket.

If you want to know more about how I figure my rates, feel very welcome to send me a PM.

Note: I'm not an accountant.


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## Tom King (Nov 22, 2013)

Start at fifty, and see how it goes on this job. I built spec houses for 33 years, but the last one in 2007. Since then, I've been working on old houses for other people. Woodworking is one part of the job, including some cabinetmaking, and a lot of trim carpentry.

There are claims that a fixed price is better all the way around, but my argument about that is that it's the cause for most shoddy work. It too often becomes a game of git 'er done, with deadlines and cheap being the most important factors.

A reputation is the most important thing, regardless of which way you price things. Your reputation can get to the point that what you charge is not the clients top priority. Always answer the question with, "I get......", and keep going up as you do work for different people. If they aren't hollering a little bit, you aren't charging enough. When you get turned down for a couple of jobs in a row, and don't have another one lined up, you are charging too much.

I tell them to start with, that I don't do deadlines, and I don't do estimates. I get......., and only will do the best work I can. If you want fast and cheap, we are wasting each other's time.


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