# purchasing 1st spray gun



## xmas (Nov 24, 2013)

Hey all, made some money with my last project & finally getting an air compressor. 2hp 8.4CFM Napa Air Boss for $500.00 & looking to get a spray gun for speeding up/upgrading my finishing on future projects. I've done a lot of research in the spray gun world & bang for the buck, these Astro guns seem to have great reviews & feedback. My question, bringing my findings back to the world of wood working, is If i'm primarily going to be spraying stain (see attached image) & probably polyurethane or shellac. I've found a site that sells a gun that looks like it will work well with my compressor's specs & they sell it with an option to come with two tips of a selection including 1.3, 1.5, 1.7 & 1.9 mm. What size tips do you think would be the best two to start with given my desired uses? Here's a link to the site selling guns, both for help in directing me as well as if maybe you're looking for a gun yourself. :smile3: thank you for any advice, hoping this will be a good move for my work.http://spraygunworld.com/products/Astro/Euro%20HVLP-HTEWoodworking.html


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

xmas said:


> Hey all, made some money with my last project & finally getting an air compressor. 2hp 8.4CFM Napa Air Boss for $500.00 & looking to get a spray gun for speeding up/upgrading my finishing on future projects. I've done a lot of research in the spray gun world & bang for the buck, these Astro guns seem to have great reviews & feedback. My question, bringing my findings back to the world of wood working, is If i'm primarily going to be spraying stain (see attached image) & probably polyurethane or shellac. I've found a site that sells a gun that looks like it will work well with my compressor's specs & they sell it with an option to come with two tips of a selection including 1.3, 1.5, 1.7 & 1.9 mm. What size tips do you think would be the best two to start with given my desired uses? Here's a link to the site selling guns, both for help in directing me as well as if maybe you're looking for a gun yourself. :smile3: thank you for any advice, hoping this will be a good move for my work.http://spraygunworld.com/products/Astro/Euro%20HVLP-HTEWoodworking.html


I would get the 1.3 and the 1.9. You should be able to spray also every coating with those tips sizes.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

That is a very expensive way to get the same results as a harbor freight gun that runs $20


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## xmas (Nov 24, 2013)

Thank you Randy, really don't know much about this stuff at all yet. I'm guessing the 1.9 would be best for the poly & the 1.3mm tip for the stain? Appreciate you taking the time to help me, don't want to waste $ on buying something i won't be able to learn with.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

xmas said:


> Thank you Randy, really don't know much about this stuff at all yet. I'm guessing the 1.9 would be best for the poly & the 1.3mm tip for the stain? Appreciate you taking the time to help me, don't want to waste $ on buying something i won't be able to learn with.


That is correct, the higher the viscosity of the material you will be spraying, the higher the number tip size you would use. Binks has a gun that you actually change the AIR CAPS instead of the needle itself, which saves time when using only 1 gun and having to change different viscosity materials often. You just simply screw on whatever size air cap you need and thats it.

HF is a good gun to obtain and learn spraying techniques with. A good sprayer can use any spray gun and get a good result. 

I know alot of people on here use HF guns, however, I never see automotive sprayers and your major top of the line finishing companies using a HF gun in their shops or factories, and theres a reason for that. HF is a nice gun to use, until you put a top end gun in your hand. I am currently using DevilBiss guns now and wouldnt trade them for anything.......and Ive tried just about all of them out there.


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## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

I use a DeVilbis Compact Mini.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Waste of money unless you are going to paint cars. With wood finishes any cheap sprayer would do fine. I use harbor freight sprayers I get for around 20 bucks.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Waste of money unless you are going to paint cars. With wood finishes any cheap sprayer would do fine. I use harbor freight sprayers I get for around 20 bucks.


That was my point.....If Im gonna buy a gun, I want a gun I can spray anything with it. I mean, why not? You never know what the future can bring when you get good with a spray gun. 

To the OP, I would also make sure the gun I buy has fluid passages that are stainless steel so that it can handle corrosive type materials, like waterbornes, and finishes containing halogenated hydrocarbon solvents. Spraying waterborne finishes can break a gun down quickly if used often on a non stainless gun. Most guns will say "stainless needle and nozzle", but that doesnt do any good if the fluid passages themselves are metal. It doesnt matter how well you clean the gun after use, water still damages the metal when used frequently and over time the gun will start to fail.

If you want a great gun that will last you forever as long as you keep it clean, look for one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeVILBISS-J...:g:-LsAAOSwXshWrRho&item=262313534142&vxp=mtr

A conventional JGA-510 with the "30" air cap is hard to beat. You can sometimes find them on ebay for under $100. The siphon gun will hook right up to a pressure pot setup if/when you upgrade or just want to start spraying from a pot on bigger projects.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

epicfail48 said:


> That is a very expensive way to get the same results as a harbor freight gun that runs $20


Have you ever used BOTH kinds and compared for yourself the finish AND the overspray?

I will be sticking with my Iwatas and passing on the HF junk. (unless I need something 'throwaway' to spray contact adhesive with or something similar)


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

OnealWoodworking said:


> Have you ever used BOTH kinds and compared for yourself the finish AND the overspray?
> 
> I will be sticking with my Iwatas and passing on the HF junk. (unless I need something 'throwaway' to spray contact adhesive with or something similar)


I don't know if he has or not but I have. When I started my business I was using Binks and Develvis sprayers and I kept having employees drop them and break them. One day I got fed up with it and bought a cheap sprayer similar to the harbor freight sprayers and was shocked to find out I was getting the same results. Ever since then I've only used cheap sprayers. The only problem I've had is spraying the metalic base coat on a couple cars I have. I really have to choke down the material to keep from putting it on too wet but I can make it work.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

OnealWoodworking said:


> Have you ever used BOTH kinds and compared for yourself the finish AND the overspray?
> 
> I will be sticking with my Iwatas and passing on the HF junk. (unless I need something 'throwaway' to spray contact adhesive with or something similar)


Putting "good" next to "great" doesn't make the "good" any less good. I don't need to use an Iwata or devilbiss to know that my harbor freight spray lays down a good coat of shellac or lacquer with minimal over spray. 

I've never driven a Ferrari, but I don't need to in order to know that my ram pickup can get me to Walmart just as well


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> I don't know if he has or not but I have. When I started my business I was using Binks and Develvis sprayers and *I kept having employees drop them and break them. One day I got fed up with it* and bought a cheap sprayer similar to the harbor freight sprayers and was shocked to find out I was getting the same results. Ever since then I've only used cheap sprayers. The only problem I've had is spraying the metalic base coat on a couple cars I have. I really have to choke down the material to keep from putting it on too wet but I can make it work.


When it is nice (temp wise) I go to the paint room, turn on the booth and the overspray gets sucked out as fast as I can make it. 










When it is cold (and I HATE the cold) I avoid blowing any of the air that I just paid my money to heat outside if I can help it. 

Compared to the china guns I have used - The Iwatas put more material on the work and less in the air. I can spray more 'small' pieces in the same place with little air movement before getting a cloud hanging in the air.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

epicfail48 said:


> Putting "good" next to "great" doesn't make the "good" any less good. I don't need to use an Iwata or devilbiss to know that my harbor freight spray lays down a good coat of shellac or lacquer with minimal over spray.
> 
> I've never driven a Ferrari, but I don't need to in order to know that my ram pickup can get me to Walmart just as well


Overspray comparison is why I was asking.

Outdoors this does not matter so much. Indoors it does.


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## GoIrish (Jan 29, 2012)

I have a Porter Cable gravity feed gun and an Apollo pressure feed. Both labeled HVLP. Both gave a good finish. 

However, I ended up with finish all over me and the gun with the PC. Needed to clean the gun after use. With the Apollo I only had to wipe the tip with a little solvent on a rag at the end of the job. Shot all the woodwork in a house over a couple of weekends and did nothing more than wipe the tip when I stopped spraying. Overspray is minimal with the Apollo.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's about cost*

For a DIY or home woodworking shop vs a production or cabinet shop "cost" is important. The Iwata, made in Japan, spray guns are around $500.00 at my local automotive Sherman Williams supply store. Like this:
http://spraygunworld.com/products/Iwata/LP400-LV-PPS.html

If you have that kind of money for your first spray gun, great. If you want to get started and spray some woodworking projects then you can get one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-with-regulator-62381.html

So, $30.00 vs $500.00, entry level vs production. Take your choice. I have several of the HF guns, bought on sale for $20.00 and when my first one stopped performing well, I took it completely apart and found there was crude in the passages from the last time I had not cleaned it correctly, after using a 2 part auto finish. It was too far gone, so I saved it for a parts gun. I had used it for about 3 years and really got my money's worth. A new gun was in the drawer and I went right back to work. 

If I were to purchase a new gun, I would consider something like this at around $250.00:
http://www.spraygunworld.com/products/DeVilbiss/Finishline4/Finishline4MasterCase.html

Or this for about $130.00:
http://www.spraygunworld.com/products/Astro/Euro HTE Blue.html

A word to the wise, IF you use a 2 part finish it will harden up if left anywhere inside the gun, and running solvent through it will not get it out. A straight lacquer finish won't get that hard and it will clean out more easily with thinner. 

A DIY or home based woodworking shop will probably NOT have a spray booth to evacuate the overspray and fumes, so again it's a matter of cost. Spray booths are quite expensive and beyond the range of non-production shops. So you really can't compare the 2 working situations and make recommendations that are beyond the financial possibility for limited use. I spray outside when weather permits and very little in the shop in cold weather. In spite of overhead exhaust fans, open windows it still gets pretty nasty, so I avoid it when possible. 

I have also got pretty good with a rattle can and Deft or clear lacquers on a horizontal surfaces. Spray can finishes are thinner out of the can so you have to watch real close to avoid runs. It will also take more applications to build a good finish, but starting out on a budget, it is an alternative. I sure wouldn't do a set of cabinets that way, but a jewelry box, sure. :smile3:


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

I knew this would be a touchy subject.....

Here is info on woodworking spray setup comparisons thats for any finishing scernario:
http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/Woodworking3.htm

I know some people say the cheaper guns are just as good as some higher end guns, but thats just not the case. Higher end guns atomize the material 4 times better than the cheap guns. 

Its true, I can use a cheaper gun and come out smelling like a rose, but I do have to do more work in between coats to achieve the slick finish than I have to do with a higher end gun to get that same slick finish. I have finished pieces where after the first scuff sand, I have applied 3 coats of lacquer and never sanded in between coats and got a slick finish......and thats especially important when talking about automotive finishes because you have to do way less sanding. 

I agree that a DIY'er should obtain a cheaper gun, $20 is the way to go. If you plan on doing this as a part time job, I would go somewhere in the $150-$250 range gun. If its in your blood, shell out for a $300-$500 one if need be. 

I have the pleasure of trying out all new guns here at work, and believe me, I have tried them all. If I brought a HF gun in here, the guys would throw it out the door. Iwata is a good gun, but pricey. CP, Warwick, and Kremlin I never liked. Binks is ok, but the ergonomics has went downhill. 

In my opinion, A Devilbiss compact gun is light weight, has a small body design, and fits in your hand just right, and I could spray with one of those guns virtually 16 hours a day with no problem.

Devilbiss Finishline FLG-671 (waterbourne gun but you can spray anything with it) and Satajet 4000 (Very Expensive!) is my choice for auto finishes.


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## xmas (Nov 24, 2013)

Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a brand/ price war, or certainly any bad blood between members. My main concern was tip sizes for things we spray. That being said, there are things that have come up in varying replies that I'm finding useful. I am hobby/part timer who will be spraying out doors for the occasional corporate client & for sale on Etsy. Overspray is a concern if for no other reason than my dogs & neighbors. So price point wise I'm ok with something mid range like Astro, the last check is paying for my equipment. Gun type, maybe LVLP is best & that's something I'm considering now more after reading through your replies, thank you all for taking the time to share your experience. Most of what I'm creating is jewelry box size & anything larger isn't on a client time frame but more on the 'for the wife or friend' time frame.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

xmas said:


> Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a brand/ price war, or certainly any bad blood between members. My main concern was tip sizes for things we spray. That being said, there are things that have come up in varying replies that I'm finding useful. I am hobby/part timer who will be spraying out doors for the occasional corporate client & for sale on Etsy. Overspray is a concern if for no other reason than my dogs & neighbors. So price point wise I'm ok with something mid range like Astro, the last check is paying for my equipment. Gun type, maybe LVLP is best & that's something I'm considering now more after reading through your replies, thank you all for taking the time to share your experience. Most of what I'm creating is jewelry box size & anything larger isn't on a client time frame but more on the 'for the wife or friend' time frame.


No hard feelings from me towards anyone on this board. To each his own.

LVLP is an option, but those guns spray very slow, and if and when you do large, or alot of pieces, thats the last thing I would want to spray with.


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## jorma (Feb 24, 2016)

FWIW.....I am with Randy et al on this one.
I painted for 30 years...never used a "cheap" gun that Lasted/Sprayed as well as a quality gun did.
If you have 200-300 bux, spend it on a good gun. Those cheap, Harbor Frieght, type guns are all over the map where quality is concerned. I have owned a few and worked on a few that were purchased by Friends/Neighbors. Every one that I have dealt with had some kind of problem.....usually it leaked air, or had pretty bad machining issues in the air horns (bad atomizing pattern), fluid needle (roll it on a table top...a pretzel is straighter) and/or fluid nozzle machining concerns.
I have Two of the Harbor Freight guns...both have "issues".....I typically use them like a throw-away paint brush. They are Great for certain applications, but I would never count on them to be my daily spray tool. They are, indeed, a cheap throw-away item.

Maybe I missed it, but I did not see any specs on the gun you are considering. You say the pump is 2 Horse and 8.5 CFM.....but at what pressure does it supply 8.5 CFM.?
Eastwood makes a very nice Gravity HVLP for 200 bux.....comes with 2 cups and 2 different Needle/Nozzle combos. It only requires 4 CFM at 30 pounds.
Honestly.....Considering the money you have available spend on a gun, you could ALSO buy the Harbor Freight gun and see for yourself what the deal is.
good luck


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

jorma said:


> Maybe I missed it, but I did not see any specs on the gun you are considering. You say the pump is 2 Horse and 8.5 CFM.....but at what pressure does it supply 8.5 CFM.?


Yeah, I cant find those specs for that gun either......

It says the Astro gun is "compatible with waterbourne and solvent coatings", but the spec sheet says *"Internal coated passages"*....that would turn me away from that gun. Those internal coatings eventually wear off. I have sprayed some Astro guns, but I cant remember which ones it was. I would rank Astro right there with Warwick on my list, which I didnt like too much.

Nothing against what the OP wants, but for the price of the Astro gun, I would just get a Devilbiss JGA 510 like I listed from Ebay above and not look back, even if its a good, clean used one. :thumbsup:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

All my guns have internal coated passages. I wish I had time to clean them better. :smile3:


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> All my guns have internal coated passages. I wish I had time to clean them better. :smile3:


Stainless is easy to clean. Teflon cups are even easier to clean. :grin:

When I clean my gun after shooting latex for example I simply run water through it for 5 seconds, then I run Acetone through it for 5 seconds, wipe the air cap off and hang it up. Done.

I got to where now I have a pickup tube installed on my siphon gun so that when I do step panels I shoot my material straight out of a 8oz paper coffee cup, then I just stick it over in a 1 gallon can of thinner and pull it through till its clear and thats it. Saves me from having to clean gravity or siphon cups.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

That reminds me, I painted some cabinets week before last with a pressure pot and the latex paint is still in the gun.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> That reminds me, I painted some cabinets week before last with a pressure pot and the latex paint is still in the gun.


Wait, Latex on cabinets? I hope you put a finish over the latex, especially if its kitchen cabinets.

I cant say much, I stripped and refinished a table 2 months ago and the precat is still in my pot. Not too worried since it has a pot life of 4-6 months, but I might better get that cleaned out asap! LOL


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It wasn't kitchen cabinets. It was just bookcases. The paint was Proclassic.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> It wasn't kitchen cabinets. It was just bookcases. The paint was Proclassic.


Proclassic :thumbsup:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

xmas said:


> Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a brand/ price war, or .


 

This is my 2.0 Iwata. It is an 'under $200.00' Italian gun. 


The factory 'out of the box' finish that comes on these guns is sooooooo smooth that paints that would instantly ruin any of the Chinese guns just beads up and rolls off like water droplets.


Cleaning usually involves no more than shaking the gun a few times...


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

OnealWoodworking said:


> This is my 2.0 Iwata. It is an 'under $200.00' Italian gun.
> 
> 
> The factory 'out of the box' finish that comes on these guns is sooooooo smooth that paints that would instantly ruin any of the Chinese guns just beads up and rolls off like water droplets.
> ...


Cant read the gun.....is it a HTE 2?

I found the iwata gun I tested about 7 months ago. It was nice and came with a teflon cup instead of aluminum, but it was too high. I could get it for $700:
http://www.amazon.com/Iwata-LPH400-144LVB-Gravity-1000ml-Aluminum/dp/B009RRIU4K


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## jorma (Feb 24, 2016)

Yeah.....the SS passageways is always a good thing.
If you do not have one already, you can get a pretty damn good kit for not too much money. I have burned through several of these types over the years. 
I would go to bed dirty myself before I would stage a dirty gun.:smile3:
Anyway.....you will be pleased to spend a few bux on something like this to keep your gun functioning properly.
Good Luck with whatever you get. :thumbsup:

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Airbru..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=1Z1SRTFZC89FSD28D9HK


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

jorma said:


> I would go to bed dirty myself before I would stage a dirty gun.:smile3:


LOL.

Ive got a couple that I kinda abuse more than I should. 
Ive also got a few that I keep looking brand new.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

RandyReed said:


> Cant read the gun.....is it a HTE 2?
> 
> I found the iwata gun I tested about 7 months ago. It was nice and came with a teflon cup instead of aluminum, but it was too high. I could get it for $700:
> http://www.amazon.com/Iwata-LPH400-144LVB-Gravity-1000ml-Aluminum/dp/B009RRIU4K


Yes Sir. You would be absolutely correct. HTE 2. 

This is NOT one of the higher end Iwata guns that cost a lot more. I think I paid somewhere just shy of $150 per gun for these and then got poked an extra $25 bucks per gun for the Air Flow Control Valve parts. (the little thingie that adjusts your input air pressure for folks that may not know) 



These come stock with a plug where that part is 'supposed' to be at so you are screwed into either buying the part or buying some sort of other regulator crap that hangs off the back of the connector and loves to get in the way (for me at least). 

Their nicer models generally have this part from the get go and a guy is going to pay for that but...

I was trying pretty hard to make the point that having something like an Iwata does NOT have to be super expensive. If a guy wants the special 'Tulip Pattern' stuff then yes, he is going to have to shell out some coin but they also have lower priced stuff that does very, very good work as well.

These work very well with the 3M PPS cups and shooting at weird angles (upside down if I want to) is absolutely no issue at all. 

These guns are very good at putting the material exactly where you aim it and NOT making an overly huge fog in the process as I said previously. I have no issues doing small items in the main shop and NOT using the booth with these type guns. I can get 2 to 3 cups worth of lacquer shot as fast as I can go with this and the 'fog' is barely noticeable. Shooting the same volume of fluid out of a HF gun under the same condition and in the same size space would create a cloud to the point that a guy would have to go take his dogs for a very long walk afterwards while the crap settled... On all their stuff. :thumbdown:


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

OnealWoodworking said:


> I think I paid somewhere just shy of $150 per gun for these and then got poked an extra $25 bucks per gun for the Air Flow Control Valve parts. (the little thingie that adjusts your input air pressure for folks that may not know)


I have an air control valve on all my guns with the air gauge on the control valve. I always felt that having the air gauge on the air control valve is a good idea to make sure your air settings are correct when you need to know. 

For anyone who wants one, the part number for the one I have is HAV-501-B. 

http://www.devilbisseu.com/en-gb/product/hav-501-b


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

If you can't control the airflow in a spray gun you might as well just stand back and just heave a bucket of paint at whatever you're painting.. <br />
Thinking about wasting material I worked for a company a few years back who insisted on using an airless piece of junk to paint cargo containers. It took me a month just to get the pattern down so everything didn't run. I'm guessing that I could have painted wrist watches from 300 yards away with no over spray.... Well maybe not that extreme, but there was little if any airflow control to it. I finally talked them into some better aircaps and pressure controls. You would have thought that the few bucks they sprung for would put them out of business. It was lying to federal inspectors that did that..
I've always cleaned every gun immediately after using. I learned the hard way by not cleaning out a $300 gun after shooting expoxy... That's never a good idea.


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## jorma (Feb 24, 2016)

Hmmmmm...I would think an airless with a 511-513 tip would be the perfect tool for painting something as Big and Flat as cargo containers.......


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## mat 60 (Jul 9, 2012)

I have a airless sprayer I been using for 10 years..You no the kind that you stick a 5 gal bucket under and paint houses...I spray precat lacquer with it and can spray a 6ft book case and one side of the shelfs in 5 min...No runs at all..I can spray a chair with it..I hardly ever clean it and I do this for work Its ready to go right now.All I need to do is reinstall the tip and stir the laquer...I use junk guns to spray stains and toners but Im Im looking for a nice hvlp in time...


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## sanchez (Feb 18, 2010)

RandyReed said:


> Steve Neul said:
> 
> 
> > It wasn't kitchen cabinets. It was just bookcases. The paint was Proclassic.
> ...


Randy, Steve,

I want to spray some cabinets with Proclassic. I have the compressor in the link below. Can I use that with the HF guns? It says 4 cfm @ 90 psi.

I did take a look at some of the Euro pro minis on spraygunworld, but they're a $100 more. And I'm a hobbyist.

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-Gal-Portable-Electric-Air-Compressor-TA-2530B/202564847


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