# Painting MDF for furniture



## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm going to be making a set of kids storage beds out of 3/4" MDF. We are going to paint them, one kid wants a blue and the other isn't sure yet. What are my options for primer/paint and top coat if needed? I have two gun's, a wagner HVLP conversion gun, http://www.gleempaint.com/hvcongunnew.html that I have used for spraying cabinets before. I also have a cheap HF gravity feed that I haven't used yet. Or if it would look alright I would just roll it if it will look decent. Rolling it would let me paint pieces as I get them done, I don't have a lot of room to work so to spray it all at one time would be tricky now that it is cold outside. Also let the girls do a little work on the beds also. But if spraying will give a much better finish I can spray a few pieces at a time.

As for paint if possible I would like something I can get at sherwin williams. I've used there paint for past projects and really like them. Just not sure about what to use? Primers, paint, and should I put a "clear coat" over the color for durability? Oil or latex? And anything else you can think of!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

First painting MDF you should thoroughly sand all surfaces. The resin in MDF is pressed to the surface and doesn't react very well with paint. I would use Kilz Original oil based primer to prime the furniture and topcoat with an alkyd enamel. Any edges of MDF will need a couple of extra coats of primer as it will absorb a lot of the primer. The Sherwin Williams in my area sells Southwest Builders alkyd enamel which if very good. If you just want the Sherwin Williams name they sell All Surface Enamel. Personally I like the Southwest Builders paint better. The paint you use should be the only finish. I would not clear coat it. 

If at all possible I would spray the finish. To spray it you will need to thin the paint. With the sprayers you have you will probably need to thin it a little more however with oil based paint thin it as little as possible. Its better for the paint to go on with a little texture rather than over thinning it. The paint dries slow so the texture will flow out as it dries.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> First painting MDF you should thoroughly sand all surfaces. The resin in MDF is pressed to the surface and doesn't react very well with paint. I would use Kilz Original oil based primer to prime the furniture and topcoat with an alkyd enamel. Any edges of MDF will need a couple of extra coats of primer as it will absorb a lot of the primer. The Sherwin Williams in my area sells Southwest Builders alkyd enamel which if very good. If you just want the Sherwin Williams name they sell All Surface Enamel. Personally I like the Southwest Builders paint better. The paint you use should be the only finish. I would not clear coat it.
> 
> If at all possible I would spray the finish. To spray it you will need to thin the paint. With the sprayers you have you will probably need to thin it a little more however with oil based paint thin it as little as possible. Its better for the paint to go on with a little texture rather than over thinning it. The paint dries slow so the texture will flow out as it dries.


Thanks Steve.

Can you educate me on alkyd enamel? What is it and how is it different from "normal" paint? Is it oil or latex based? Does it hold up better than what I call normal paint? What do you thin alkyd enamel with?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

An alkyd enamel is just another name for oil based enamel. Acrylic enamel is the latex version. In my opinion it is better then any latex paint. It dries harder and more durible then Acrylic. I've experienced acrylic enamels that had been dry for years get soft in humid weather to where can goods would stick to the shelves in kitchen cabinets. On the other hand an alkyd enamel will stay soft for the first couple of weeks until it cures to where you have to handle it tenderly where an acrylic would for immediate hard use be better. When the alkyd enamel is fully cured its done. It won't soften unless you put a solvent on it. 

To thin it you use mineral spirits but for spraying it, it works a little better to use napatha. Napatha is a faster drying solvent.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> An alkyd enamel is just another name for oil based enamel. Acrylic enamel is the latex version. In my opinion it is better then any latex paint. It dries harder and more durible then Acrylic. I've experienced acrylic enamels that had been dry for years get soft in humid weather to where can goods would stick to the shelves in kitchen cabinets. On the other hand an alkyd enamel will stay soft for the first couple of weeks until it cures to where you have to handle it tenderly where an acrylic would for immediate hard use be better. When the alkyd enamel is fully cured its done. It won't soften unless you put a solvent on it.
> 
> To thin it you use mineral spirits but for spraying it, it works a little better to use napatha. Napatha is a faster drying solvent.


Thanks again Steve.

So if I was to use an alkyd enamel how long after I spray can I move it into the bedroom and put the bed together and use it?

Does this plan sound good to you?

Sand really good, 
Spray an oil based primer,
SHOULD I SAND AGAIN?, and how long to wait between coats?
Spray a second coat of primer if needed,
SAND AGAIN?,
Spray an alkyd enamel,
HOW MANY COATS AND SAND BETWEEN?

Does this sound like a good start? Any other things you might add?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would suggest to use ¾" plywood instead of MDF. MDF is a good substrate for panels and such, but I wouldn't recommend it for structural use, especially for kids furniture. If you want to paint, a smooth face plywood, like Birch or Maple would work well, and provide a safer piece of furniture.

As for paint, I would use an acrylic paint, or a waterbase polyurethane. It will dry faster, emit much less odor than oil base, and easier clean up. It will be less likely to be subject to blocking (things sticking to it).








 





 
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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I would suggest to use ¾" plywood instead of MDF. MDF is a good substrate for panels and such, but I wouldn't recommend it for structural use, especially for kids furniture. If you want to paint, a smooth face plywood, like Birch or Maple would work well, and provide a safer piece of furniture.
> 
> As for paint, I would use an acrylic paint, or a waterbase polyurethane. It will dry faster, emit much less odor than oil base, and easier clean up. It will be less likely to be subject to blocking (things sticking to it).
> 
> ...


Thanks again.

As with my other post is it alright to use a "premium sanded" ply or should I go with a oak, birch, or other faced ply?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ponch37300 said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> As with my other post is it alright to use a "premium sanded" ply or should I go with a oak, birch, or other faced ply?


What are you referring to as "premium sanded". All I suggested was Birch or Maple.









 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ponch37300 said:


> Thanks again Steve.
> 
> So if I was to use an alkyd enamel how long after I spray can I move it into the bedroom and put the bed together and use it?
> 
> ...


I would sand the primer between coats. The drying time for the primer and paint would depend largely on the weather where you are at. In cold and or damp weather it takes longer. In warm dry weather you should be able to sand the primer in a couple hours. If it starts gumming up on the sandpaper then its not ready. After sanding make sure you get all the dust cleaned off. I normally wipe with a clean rag and blow it off with a air hose. You can tell if you have enough primer on it if it looks like it would be a finished job if you trying to make it a flat white finish. Usually when you start priming it starts showing defects you didn't know you had and have to putty something. I normally put two coats of enamel on letting the first coat dry 24 hours. I only do any sanding between coats of the enamel if there is any rough spots. Then I normally use 320 grit wet and dry sandpaper with water. Dry sanding would need more drying time.

If you want to change to plywood now I would go with birch. If you use oak or ash it will be more money and the grain pattern of the wood would show through the paint. Birch will paint fine. Just make sure you don't purchase Chinese plywood. It is bad to delaminate. They must use rice spit for glue over there.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> What are you referring to as "premium sanded". All I suggested was Birch or Maple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After you suggested not using MDF I was looking at plywood options at menards. The have a ACX plywood that is sanded, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...-x-8-premium-acx-plywood/p-1508796-c-5698.htm. They also have a BCX, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...-x-8-premium-acx-plywood/p-1508796-c-5698.htm. Then they have 3 different birch plywoods, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...plywood-wood-veneer-core/p-1714173-c-5698.htm, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...plywood-wood-veneer-core/p-1480808-c-5698.htm, and http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...refinished-birch-plywood/p-1696698-c-5698.htm. I'm going to need about 10 sheets to do both beds so price is a concern, but I also don't want to spend a bunch of money and then have it fall apart because I didn't spend the extra 1-200 for the right plywood. Which of the above options would you recomend?

Thanks again for your advice.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ponch37300 said:


> After you suggested not using MDF I was looking at plywood options at menards. The have a ACX plywood that is sanded, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...-x-8-premium-acx-plywood/p-1508796-c-5698.htm. They also have a BCX, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...-x-8-premium-acx-plywood/p-1508796-c-5698.htm. Then they have 3 different birch plywoods, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...plywood-wood-veneer-core/p-1714173-c-5698.htm, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...plywood-wood-veneer-core/p-1480808-c-5698.htm, and http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...refinished-birch-plywood/p-1696698-c-5698.htm. I'm going to need about 10 sheets to do both beds so price is a concern, but I also don't want to spend a bunch of money and then have it fall apart because I didn't spend the extra 1-200 for the right plywood. Which of the above options would you recomend?
> 
> Thanks again for your advice.


I would not use ACX, or BCX, as they are an exterior grade, too grainy, and too rough, too many voids. I would go to the store and visually look at the faces of their Maple and Birch plywoods. Their faces are likely very smooth...probably more so for Maple.

In using plywood, I would also use dadoes and rabbets with glue and fasteners to fabricate. No biscuits or pocket screws.








 







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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I would not use ACX, or BCX, as they are an exterior grade, too grainy, and too rough, too many voids. I would go to the store and visually look at the faces of their Maple and Birch plywoods. Their faces are likely very smooth...probably more so for Maple.
> 
> In using plywood, I would also use dadoes and rabbets with glue and fasteners to fabricate. No biscuits or pocket screws.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Cabinetman. Makes sense. They have 3 different birch plywoods to choose from in my price range. I will have to go to the store and see what the differences are. The maple is 50 dollars a sheet which is a little more than I wanted to spend. After being told MDF would work good I put together a budget based on 35 bucks a sheet and told the boss(woman) so a huge price increase isn't going to go over good! I will look at the birch options at the store.

I will use dados and glue where possible but for the bed frame I need to make it so it can come apart so I can get it into the room and also take it down when they out grow it. So I was planning on using dowels, not glued on one side and also use metal cross dowels like these, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2001045/860/cross-dowels.aspx. These will only be on the long part of the bed frame, the rest will be dado and glued. Do you think that will work alright?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ponch37300 said:


> I will use dados and glue where possible but for the bed frame I need to make it so it can come apart so I can get it into the room and also take it down when they out grow it. So I was planning on using dowels, not glued on one side and also use metal cross dowels like these, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2001045/860/cross-dowels.aspx. These will only be on the long part of the bed frame, the rest will be dado and glued. Do you think that will work alright?


If installed properly and they do what they are supposed to do, they should work OK. Have you ruled out the possible use of "T" (tee) nuts?








 







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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> If installed properly and they do what they are supposed to do, they should work OK. Have you ruled out the possible use of "T" (tee) nuts?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I haven't reuled out anything yet. But I would think a cross dowel would hold better than a T nut? A T nut is in the end grain and I would think could be pulled out pretty easy. To pull a cross dowel out you would need to pull it threw an inch or two of wood which I think would be pretty hard. I guess I don't see how a T nut would be better than a cross dowel? But I'm still new at this stuff.

Here is an example of the type of cross dowel I'm thinking about using, http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...w=228&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:96.

I would think this would be better than T nuts, No?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ponch37300 said:


> Well I haven't reuled out anything yet. But I would think a cross dowel would hold better than a T nut? A T nut is in the end grain and I would think could be pulled out pretty easy. To pull a cross dowel out you would need to pull it threw an inch or two of wood which I think would be pretty hard. I guess I don't see how a T nut would be better than a cross dowel? But I'm still new at this stuff.
> 
> Here is an example of the type of cross dowel I'm thinking about using, http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...w=228&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:96.
> 
> I would think this would be better than T nuts, No?


I know how the dowels work. I don't know the configuration of your pieces. That's why I said "possible use" of "T" nuts.









 







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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I know how the dowels work. I don't know the configuration of your pieces. That's why I said "possible use" of "T" nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is the store bed I am going to copy the design of, http://www.ashleyfurniture.com/Show...x?PageId=Showroom&SetDomTab=1&ItemNo=B233-68T. Here is a rough drawing I did for another post showing where I plan on using the cross dowels along with wood dowels. Sorry my sketchup skills aren't the best!









My plan is to make the stairs and foot board as one unit. Then the headboard as a unit. Then the cross brace to connect them. This will make an "H" to support the bed on top. Also will have the two side rails connecting the head and foot boards that will need to be able to come apart. Hopefully this makes a little sense, hard for me to explain things!

I also found this picture of the same bed in a different configuration, http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...8&start=18&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:26,s:20,i:216. That shows the bed without the center support I plan to put in. I think without this center support it would be pretty weak and if the kids got to jumping on it they could "rack" it and collaps it.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

Here is another sketchup drawing showing the bed fram support from undernieth. It shows the "H" design made out of the head and foot boards and the center support. The cutouts where the dresser drawers and shelves are going to go on each side and the "floor" for the mattress. The head and foot boards will actually be taller and have sides connecting them above this "frame".


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

I just ran to menards again to look at birch plywood. They had American made 3/4" birch for 45 bucks a sheet, http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...plywood-wood-veneer-core/p-1714173-c-5698.htm. That will add about another 100-150 bucks for the project so not to bad. 

I think the cross dowels will be best in this situation but I've never used them before so who knows. I tried my best in the drawings above to show what I'm trying to do.


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## dmike (Oct 8, 2012)

Do you have a Sutherlands nearby? I just discovered yesterday that they sell 3/4 inch birch ply (pulled a few sheets out, look just fine on the face -- no idea if there are a bunch of voids, etc) for $39.95/sheet when Home Depot and Lowes here sell for $44.95/sheet.


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