# Best Equipment for a Small Shop



## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm still very new to woodworking and I'm excited to learn. I'm wanting to put together a compact shop and I need some advice.

So far I have a few nail guns, a compressor (small pancake style), a 12" DeWalt compound miter saw, a few hand sanders, and various hand tools.

What would you guys recommend me buying. I need small but good quality stuff (without breaking the bank). I'm working with a 17' x 11' area so I'm going to need to get creative with storage.

I obviously need a table saw and routers... 

Thanks for the help :thumbsup:


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## Plowboy (Dec 31, 2006)

Nathan said:


> I'm still very new to woodworking and I'm excited to learn. I'm wanting to put together a compact shop and I need some advice.
> 
> So far I have a few nail guns, a compressor (small pancake style), a 12" DeWalt compound miter saw, a few hand sanders, and various hand tools.
> 
> ...


What are you wanting to do with it?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

If you want to make small boxes and simple items/gifts like i.e. jewelry boxes, blanket chests, cutting boards, stuff like that, that where alot of woodworkers start. But you will soon graduate to that entertainment center. So you might as well goahead and realize that buying on a budget is one thing, but quickly realizing that you spent too little can be expensive in the longrun too. 

What i am talking about is the table saw. You have heard it said a million times that it's the heart of the shop, because it is true. So many guys put together a woodshop and spend $1000 - $1500 on a router, bits, and a good quality compound miter saw.

This is a mistake in my opinion. If you have to wait a little longer to get your shop together in order to get the table saw you need, then wait.

But lets determine what table saw you need? Do you need more than a good bench top table saw? I say yes. While there are several models that deliver power enough for most jobs you'll encounter, they struggle, are not stable, and will not cut that 2" - 3" hardwood you will stuff through it one day for whatever reason.

Instead of spending several thousand dollars on peripheral equipment, get your table saw first. You need more than a bench top table saw. Its purpose is for taking to the jobsite and ripping trim and that is what it excels at. It can crosscut too but my point is don't make the mistake of assuming because the manufacturer touts it as an acceptable "small shop" table saw "for the hobbyist" that it is.
You don't have to have a cabinte saw (although that is preferrable) but you should at leat get a nice contractor saw. 

My first serious table saw I bought in the early 90s was a Grizzly 1023S sliding table saw. It was a dream compared the Ryobi BT6000 or whatever that nightmare was. 

My current saw is a Oliver 270D which ws manufactured in 1947. It's in my avatar with my wife. The writing which you can't read says "Still Purrs like a Kitten". I am referring to both the saw and the wife but we are talkning abou the saw now.:cowboy: 

That saw was manufactured up until the mid 1990s when Chinese pressure fianlly forced them to close there doors, but the saw had a waitng list and cost $15,000 to purchase.

I got mine for $650. Now while that probably was once in a lifetime deals, my point is that for over $500, you can purchase the best bench top table saw on the market IMO which is the Bosch. but you will not have the "Heart of The Sh0p" type of saw. you might not run into a deal likemine, but don't get in a hurry. Shop around and wait for a good deal to come along on a serious saw. 

At least buy a nice contractor saw with a good fence. I don't normally suggest this unless the budget warrants but you may even consider Grizzly. They have some excellent deals on cabinet saws. you can get a 2HP - 3HP cabinet saw from the for under $1000 i believe.

My point, which I have tried to emphasize (lost the entire tex twice and had to start over because I am NOT used to typing on this little bitty laptop! :cursing: ) is that I cannot emphasize enough the importnce of getting as much table saw as you can possibly afford before you say something like "Okay I have $2000 to spend right now . . . . that means $750 for the table saw . . . . $500 for a router and a set of bits . . . $400 for a sliding compound miter saw . . ." I say no don't do it that way. Take the whole $2K and buy a table saw, a dust collector, and a couple of excellent blades for it. Then buy the other stuff as you can.

That's my 2 coppers I will let the experts list the other stuff you need. just don't buy any of it until you have that serious table saw wired and piped and singing like a jaybird.


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

Plowboy said:


> What are you wanting to do with it?


Well, what I do now is trim carpentry and that is basically what I have equipment for. I'd like to get into doing more detailed wainscoting which would require a table saw and router. 

But I also want the ability to tinker if you know what I mean. 

Someone needs to make a universal gym type woodworking rack that you can spin and get all the different tools :laughing:


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

I agree that a good table saw would make sense for me as a first purchase. I'm thinking of going to woodcraft this weekend to look at some models. I don't have the money just yet but I want to know what I'm looking forward to.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

On table saws, you can alot more for the money if you shop used. What's the biggest city near you or do you live in one?


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

Austin.

I'm not sure I'm buying it there... just want to look for now.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Austin Texas? Wow. Had no idea.


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

Cedar Park is where I live. NW Austin


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

Note the time in the above post...someone needs to know what bed time is...:laughing: You cannot make good decisions at 2 am.


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## Burlkraft (Oct 15, 2006)

Must have been a lot of guys unable to sleep last night. Jill passed the flu to me and I've been up all night....:furious: :furious: :furious:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

When I do paperwork it involves the computer. When I do computer work it involves checking forums. When I do checking foums it wipes out my paperwork. :laughing: 

I gave up on the paperwork and started out reading chainsaw stuff and ended up reading the site of The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. :blink:


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

Yea, I usually don't get to sleep very early. I'm not exactly a morning person.


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## Plowboy (Dec 31, 2006)

I agree that a Table Saw is a great place to start. My journey started with a miter saw out of necessity of a home improvement project. Then to the tablesaw, dust collector, air cleaner, jointer, planer, drum sander (I was doing a LOT of chess boards), and band saw. Mortise machine, 12" disc sander, oscilating drum sander, and radial arm saw came later. The second set of power tools mentioned are nice to have, but you certainly don't need to start there.

I'm now getting more into hand planes. I wish I had appreciated the need for good hand tools before getting all of the power tools. What I mean is that I should have been investing in some good hand planes before some of the more "specialty" power tools.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Exactly plowboy. Don't overlook hand tools like quality chisels and planes. Every shop needs a good quality block plane at least with a nice sharp blade. I'll make a post about _Scary Sharp System_ in the General Woodworking forum when I have time unless someone else would like to??? Again, don't buy junk here.


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## Plowboy (Dec 31, 2006)

For me, dust collection and air cleaner was a high priority. I'd spend 2 hours in the shop and would weeze for a couple of days. The dust would kill my lungs. 

I just picked up a .5 micron filter bag for my JET 1100 dust collector.

Recently read an article where a test was done on air cleaners. A box fan with a disposable filter performed as well as any of the high dollar systems that you can buy. The other conclusion was that the static washable filters don't do as good a job as the paper disposable ones. I was disappointed in that because I bought a washable filter about three years ago. I was tired of spending the money on the disposable ones. They don't seem to last very long.


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

OK, so let's talk specifics. What table saw would be best for a hobbyist who wants something that is good quality but isn't too big or outrageously expensive?


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## Plowboy (Dec 31, 2006)

Nathan said:


> OK, so let's talk specifics. What table saw would be best for a hobbyist who wants something that is good quality but isn't too big or outrageously expensive?


I'm sure the advice could be across the board here, but I'll give you my 2 pennies.


Spend more than $99 or you'll spend $99 again and again. A hobbiest shouldn't spend more than $500 in my opinion.
Go will a belt driven saw and not direct drive. They will run smoother and last longer.
A "contractor" style saw is a good choice. No need for a cabinet saw.
Brand: staying above $99 will mean you'll likely run into some quality brands. Opinions where are going to vary, so I'll just advise, again, not to go TOO cheap.
Make sure that it either has dust collection ports or that they can be added. Dust collection is a must, IMHO, at some point for any shop. Dust collection ability is a must in almost every tool I buy. I hate sweeping floors and weazing.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I know space may kill you, but the Grizzly contractors saw is a top pick by me, simply due to it's ridgid construction, and it has a super fence...and the price is dirt cheap, IMO. Catch it at the right time, and freight is free too, or you can drive to Springfield and pick it up in person.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Wow... Nathan, I would have never guessed you were into woodworking. Good for you, as a hobby it can be very relaxing and satisfying. The trim guns and sanding equipment is a good start for the installation side of it, and helpful in the building side. Most of the things I build have joinery and not very many nails. I use nails mostly for applying moldings. As for the equipment side of it, it really depends on what you plan on building. You had mentioned the trimming side of things and wainscoting. Making wainscotting could be as simple as having a jointer and a tablesaw. A chopsaw would be a plus. You can buy the moldings you need for now from a lumberyard. Most of the equipment you can buy for a shop can be put on casters and stuffed into a corner until needed. If you are serious and not just a weekend or once a month warrior, you should invest in a contractors style saw, something in the 2-3 HP range. You can start out with the fence that comes with the saw but when you start to use full sheets of plywood you are going to wish you had a nicer fence system (Biesemeyer or UniSaw fence). I think you will also need a jointer, you can start out with a bench top 4", but I would suggest with going to a 6" to start. Dust collection is a must, and a 2" hose shop vac is a starting point. Not having a planer in a shop would be hard for me. You can get a 12" portable that will treat you well for a few years. Now of course all this costs money, and you've got to start somewhere. Start with the tablesaw and shop vac, then the jointer, a router with a selection of bits and a router table if you plan on making doors and panels. Good luck with your endeavor and do show us some of your work.


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

Thanks for the advice Leo. One of the reasons I started this site is because I have such an interest in the subject although I don't know much. Getting input from you guys is awesome!

I'm wanting to get into it because I've found myself being tied to a computer too often. I'm either using one at work or using one in the off hours to run websites. I need to do something with my hands and stop starring at a PC so much of the time.

I think a table saw is what I am going to buy first but I just have to watch the money a bit. Do you guys think $500-$600 would buy me something good or is that too low? Trying to figure out how to break this to my wife . She knows I'm talking about getting tools but I don't think she understands how much it costs.

BTW, I have my first project in mind. I need a low (2 self) but deep bookcase for my office. Something that is about 3' tall and 24" deep and 48" wide. It will hold some books and also be a table for my printer and fax machine. The furniture in the office right now is painted black so I figure I can really screw it up but still make it look good with putty and paint :laughing:.


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## Plowboy (Dec 31, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Thanks for the advice Leo. One of the reasons I started this site is because I have such an interest in the subject although I don't know much. Getting input from you guys is awesome!
> 
> I'm wanting to get into it because I've found myself being tied to a computer too often. I'm either using one at work or using one in the off hours to run websites. I need to do something with my hands and stop starring at a PC so much of the time.
> 
> ...


I think you can get a good contractor saw with a good fence for 5-6 bills. Good price range! Check out the Grizzly that was suggested. I've been very impressed with the Grizzly quality for the price. Basically, you aren't paying for the Dewalt, Delta, or whatever name.

I'll post some pics of a bookcase I did for my home office.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Here is the grizzly site, take a gander. Get a left tilt saw in my opinion.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/mach-specs.aspx?key=530


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

So, something like this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0444Z










With a base like this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G7314










That would be $700 total before shipping and tax. Hmmmm.... I'm going to have to talk my wife into this I can see.


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## Plowboy (Dec 31, 2006)

After further consideration. How about I sell you my Delta Contractor saw and I go buy the Grizzly? 

Seriously, that is a sweet setup! I started drooling over that pic. That's the kind of saw you want, IMHO. You'll love that fense, too.


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## Plowboy (Dec 31, 2006)

I didn't think the Grizzly would be that much. My Delta was $500, but that was a few years ago without the good fence and without the mobile base.


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

Plowboy said:


> I didn't think the Grizzly would be that much. My Delta was $500, but that was a few years ago without the good fence and without the mobile base.


Yea, it's $625 base price for the 2hp. I may have to find something cheaper. Also, the freight alone is almost $100 on top of the price


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## Nathan (Aug 17, 2006)

You know, in VA there was a local woodworking store that had a shop in it and you could join their club and use the equipment. I think it cost around $60/month. Long term I want my own tools but it is tempting to get your feet wet before investing a ton of money.

Haven't found anything like that around here though.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

That Grizzly saw is the exact model I own,a nd yes, it beats our Delta cantractors saw all over in quality...the fence alone IMO is superior...and keep this in mind: You buy a $200 Craftsman (or similar) cheap POS saw, and you will not only regret it later, you will not be satisfied by the inacuracy of a cheaper saw/fence. A table saw should be one tool you won't skimp on for quality, because it will be used for nearly every project in your shop. 

When I uncrated the Grizzly, it took me an hour to assmeble it, but the Shop Fox fence system is worth it....I was particular in how I set the veneer scale, and it is accurate enough I don't have to double check with a ruler every time I set it...that is worth a lot, IMO, to also know when I lock the fence, it doesn't not "fudge" over, and it is perfectly straight...if you set my Delta (older model, job site saw) up without care, the results are less then acceptable. 

I do have an antique Delta table saw that I willpart with....it is so old, the table travels up and down to change blade height, and tilts to set angles......the blade mandrel is "fixed"...now if you use a dinosaur like that, it works, but you won't enjoy what you are doing.


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## billybokay (Oct 30, 2006)

For a small shop, get the festool circular saw , guide rail and multifunction table, and a portable tabelsaw and you will be amazed at how easy it is. I used to have 2 tablesaws and now I use the multifunction table and got rid of one of the table saws. 
Watch the video on www.festoolusa.com . When working alone in a small space nothing beats it.


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## gedereco (Nov 20, 2006)

your right thats a great set up. why can't you get table saws like that in the uk. everyone i,ve seen have rubbish fenses ..:blink:


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## GilaJorge (Sep 14, 2007)

Exactly as the other Texan mentioned...do not forget scary sharp...the chisels you have even when new are not scary sharp...and you will appreciate the difference....as to heavy iron...table saw, joiner, band saw, are critical...larger air compressor about 5hp 60gal better...

I got a planer and have yet to use it...it just collects dust...for two years...so guess don't really need....

next is a hollow chisel mortiser...then a dovetail jig...and like Normie, I tend to change routers not bits...never have too many routers...oh, and I like trim saws for handy quick cuts on carcases...

Also I stock up and prime and rust-oleum paint 1.5inch angle stock in various lengths to use for clamping purposes and also to use for straight edges to ensure cuts are square...that way saws never wander...and glue does not stick to them if properly prepped...

I also have a wire feed mig welder for combining wood and metal work together...chop saw which is like the compound mitre saw of woodworking....sanders and grinders....run by compressed air....

Cant overemphasize eye and ear protection...voice of experience here...


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## The General (Aug 12, 2008)

If you are looking to get a tenon mortise or dovetail machine try richline machines they are the best i have found any where. Thanks Good Luck


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## John in Tennessee (Jun 11, 2008)

craigslist.. If you try to buy new it'll kill you. Just take a buddy with you to look ans take cash and don't be afraid to dicker...


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

I'd agree with TTimbers, a table saw is the center of a decent shop. But it does depend on what you are hoping to do with it. If you are doing modest remodeling, then you have started out well. Yes, some chisels, a decent block plane, etc, (and you don't need great ones, you need to learn how to use them first, and how to sharpen them) and get a few drill's, drivers, sawsall, etc. BUT if you ARE going to make fancier things, like cabinets, and intend to use hardwoods where the wood all shows, then a table saw is the critical thing. I would also second what TT said, and seems to be sort of glossed over. I can't understand why folks talk about Griz, Steel city, rigid, etc, and NOT consider used. There are LOTS of great saws out there begging to be bought. An Oliver 270 D you might not find, nor want. But there are lots of unisaws, or Powermatics, and other great saws out there that have real iron in them, and fitted with a good modern fence, would be something that can not be duplicated today for anything less than $2000. Look on Craigslist or ebay or any of hundreds of other spots. I see such saws weekly that are less than $1000, and those are the ones that are in perfect condition, with very good fences etc. I see at least one a month where you can buy a great saw for $500 or less. If you are willing to look and wait, you can have one. (I have 3, so don't need too many more)
good luck


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## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

You can get a Delta 36-979 Contractors saw for $499 and a Delta T2 fence for $150, both at Lowes, $650 total. Or you can look for a used Contractors saw IF you know what to look for. I just bought another Contractors saw last week, it's a old 34-600 Delta / Rockwell 9 inch saw with the factory stand, cast wings, and 1hp motor.







I didn't realize how small these saws are, it doesn't take up hardly anymore room than the Skil benchtop on a stand that I had. I think it's a great little Contractors saw, especially for someone thats cramped on space, it runs smooth, and suprisingly it's heavy too, so I bought a mobile base for it. I don't have alot of money into this saw, but I do have some time into it cleaning it up, adding dust collection, makeing a switch mount and relocating the power switch, plus I would like to find another handwheel or a matching set. I may have to live with the fence, I will see how it works after I've used the saw a bit. A aftermarket fence would be too large for the saw, or I could practice some welding and see if I can comeup with a miniature clone fence, hopefully the factory fence won't be that bad. Overall though, I'm very happy with what I bought.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi Nathan

If you are looking to outfit a small shop perhaps you should look at a Shopsmith Mark 5. I know this is not everybody's first choice, due to setup and change over time, as well as some members consider them to be under powered, but for a vesatile machine that will fit into a small space, I think this is worth considering. Also, I have seen some used units that are selling for a fraction of the new cost.

Gerry


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I think Nathan retired from his woodworking hobby before it ever got off the ground good.


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## Hacksaw (Jul 13, 2008)

Another vote for scoping out used table saws in your area. Based on your price range, a used $600 table saw will be better than a new $600 table saw almost every time.

For example, when I was in the market, I almost pulled the trigger on a Ridgid TS3660 contractor saw ($549) on several occassions and changed my mind at the last minute. I ended up finding a good deal on a reconditioned Delta 36-715B hybrid saw with a T2 fence and mobile base included for $599. The Ridgid is a respectable contractor saw, but for only $50 more, I feel like I have a much better saw. The Delta would have run me around $900 new with nearly another $100 for the mobile base.


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

Hey TexasTimbers... 
Teach me scary sharp! I've read all the stuff- I currently lay 800 grit on my table saw top (BIG NOTE to Nathan, table saw's are great for other things too!) and I use a guide to "polish" an edge on my planer blade but I don't think it's sharp enough.

Anyways: *Nathan*, you're lucky enough to have a plethora of saws to choose from (Texas is completely right, you need a great tablesaw). And you're lucky enough to have a ton of well informed folks at your finger tips. My two favorites (for new shops) are the Grizzly series and - if you want to spend a little more - the Craftsman 22114 (or 22124) is what I bought. Unless you're cutting professionally I can't imagine needing much more.
I've found that, with experience, I make about 80-90% of my cuts with my table saw.


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