# "Stainable" wood filler..not so stainable



## rkl423 (Sep 7, 2018)

Hi

Newbie here who is glad to have found a place to ask for help. I acquired an old school desk (1896) recently and wanted to spruce it up. It was a mess - dirty, stickers/tape on it and worst of all names carved into the underside of the desk top. I used a certain wood filler marketed as "stainable" to fill in holes and carvings. After letting it dry thoroughly over many days and sanding down smooth, I stained it over the weekend - disaster. The areas with the filler did not stain and are a grey color. The rest of the desk is dark brown (Jacobean) and really shiny which I don't like. Now what to do? Strip the stain and try and sand the carvings down then restain? Just sand without stripping the stain? What brand stain won't leave that awful shine? Use the same stain but use a matte varnish to tone down the shine? What grade sandpaper will smooth out those carvings? I pretreated the desk with wood conditioner and followed those and the stain directions carefully. I am just worried that if I sand too much I will damage the 100-year-old plus wood. It's discouraging because I watched woodworking videos and got books from the library because I wanted to do a good job. A pic of the desk top is attached. The spots are the places the filler did not absorb the stain. I appreciate any advice. Thanks!


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Welcome to the forum! When you get a minute complete your profile with location. You can add your first name to your signature line and it will show in each post.

Someone should be along shortly to assist with your question. I've always had better luck taking something like that back down to bare wood and starting the finishing process from there.

David


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

I would not refinish it.

I would fix any loose joints. 

And I would apply some Butcher's Wax to the surface. The Butchers wax will remove any loose dirt. It will not penetrate the wood and it will be easily removed. 

This will retain the old patina and much of the charm of an older piece.

If you want a "new version" then use the old one as a model and make new one from scratch.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

rkl423 said:


> Hi
> 
> Newbie here who is glad to have found a place to ask for help. I acquired an old school desk (1896) recently and wanted to spruce it up. It was a mess - dirty, stickers/tape on it and worst of all names carved into the underside of the desk top. I used a certain wood filler marketed as "stainable" to fill in holes and carvings. After letting it dry thoroughly over many days and sanding down smooth, I stained it over the weekend - disaster. The areas with the filler did not stain and are a grey color. The rest of the desk is dark brown (Jacobean) and really shiny which I don't like. Now what to do? Strip the stain and try and sand the carvings down then restain? Just sand without stripping the stain? What brand stain won't leave that awful shine? Use the same stain but use a matte varnish to tone down the shine? What grade sandpaper will smooth out those carvings? I pretreated the desk with wood conditioner and followed those and the stain directions carefully. I am just worried that if I sand too much I will damage the 100-year-old plus wood. It's discouraging because I watched woodworking videos and got books from the library because I wanted to do a good job. A pic of the desk top is attached. The spots are the places the filler did not absorb the stain. I appreciate any advice. Thanks!


You have a few problems, not just the filler. Looking at the picture the overall top wasn't sanded enough. Then the preconditioner is a sealer, kind of like a thin varnish. This would prevent the wood filler from accepting the stain. From what I see in the picture it appears the stain wasn't wiped off. This is the most common cause of shiny spots. Anytime you use a wood stain the excess needs to be wiped off with a clean dry cloth. Any amount of stain allowed to dry on the surface can prevent the finish from bonding to the wood. The finish will bond to the stain instead of the wood and start to peal off within a month or so. 

If any of my assumptions are correct I would recommend stripping the stain off and sanding the table some more. If you are using a 1/4 sheet sander they are not near as aggressive enough for what you are doing. You need a random orbital sander. 

When you experience a wood filler not taking the stain you can use touch up markers and graining pens to supplement the color. Lets say you have a spot that is about 3/4" in diameter you filled with putty. It's too big to just stain it and have it look nice. You first stain it with the wood and if it isn't dark enough color the spot to the lighter color of the surrounding wood. Then take a graining pen and draw wood grain on it. It's kind of like a brown sharpie. The spot won't go away but if you color it in with the grain is will be a lot less noticeable.


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## rkl423 (Sep 7, 2018)

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the suggestions. I did use a 1/4 sander (first timer) and I have been trying to find someone local to help if it's needs more sanding but so far, no luck. Can I just use a courser grade sandpaper? As far as the wiping the excess stain, I did but the problem was fibers from the rag stuck to it so I didn't get very far. The stain was really sticky which only made things worse. Any recommendation where to get rags/cloths that are lint-free? I did get a touch up marker the other day, but that hasn't really helped. It's just like using a Sharpie and looks tacky.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

rkl423 said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Thank you for the suggestions. I did use a 1/4 sander (first timer) and I have been trying to find someone local to help if it's needs more sanding but so far, no luck. Can I just use a courser grade sandpaper? As far as the wiping the excess stain, I did but the problem was fibers from the rag stuck to it so I didn't get very far. The stain was really sticky which only made things worse. Any recommendation where to get rags/cloths that are lint-free? I did get a touch up marker the other day, but that hasn't really helped. It's just like using a Sharpie and looks tacky.


I'm not sure but I think the wood is pine. If you try to take it down with a 1/4 sheet sander it will remove the soft wood between the hard grain and have the texture of a washboard when you are done. This is why I never replaced the 1/4 sheet sander I had when it wore out. What the table really needs more than anything is to be sanded with a belt sander and then an orbital sander. This would take the surface below most of the damage. 

If the rags you were using was hanging on the wood then it certainly wasn't sanded smooth enough. The surface should be sanded through 180 grit before staining. As far as what kind of rags I just use painters rags I get at the paint store. 

The touch up marker whether it's shinny doesn't matter as long as the color is alright. When you put a finish over the top the sheen will all even out.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

I think that you need to re-sand and get the sealer off. Why a company would offer a sealer before stain is beyond me. 

Then I think that a gel stain, preferably oil based would solve most of your color problems. (BTW - I've used both Elmers and Minwax stainable fillers. My preference is Minwax.) Then a good oil finish. My favorite is Minwax Antique Oil Finish. It is almost impossible to screw up. Wipe on and wipe off after 5 minutes, let it dry for a day or two, then a second coat. 

Finally hand rubbed Butcher's Bowling Alley wax if available in your area. S.C. Johnson Paste Wax is an excellent substitute. Either are premier products and can also be used to protect your cast iron machines.


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## rkl423 (Sep 7, 2018)

I stripped off the stain and some of the filler last night. The next step is to look for an orbital sander, although I'm not sure what grade sanding disc to start with. I've asked at three well-known home improvement stores and a local lumber yard if someone would sand it for me properly (offering to pay of course) but considering the looks I got, you'd think I just landed from Mars.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

On Mars I prefer to start sanding with 80x discs and work my way through 180 grit if I'm going to use a film finish. For an oil finish I would sand through 400 grit.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

Steve Neul said:


> On Mars I prefer to start sanding with 80x discs and work my way through 180 grit if I'm going to use a film finish. For an oil finish I would sand through 400 grit.


I'm sure that you find an Opportunity for some help on Mars. :vs_laugh:


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## mackman (Mar 2, 2016)

Steve Neul said:


> If the rags you were using was hanging on the wood then it certainly wasn't sanded smooth enough. The surface should be sanded through 180 grit before staining. As far as what kind of rags I just use painters rags I get at the paint store.


I think the rags were sticking because the stain was very "sticky", which means he just left it on way too long. He might not be aware that most stain is basically "wipe on, wipe off"...it doesn't need to "set" or anything like that.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

mackman said:


> I think the rags were sticking because the stain was very "sticky", which means he just left it on way too long. He might not be aware that most stain is basically "wipe on, wipe off"...it doesn't need to "set" or anything like that.


Could be, I've seen instructions on stains that say let it sit 15-20 minutes before wiping it off. It's no wonder so many people are confused about finishing. Between bad info from the paint companies and Bubba's videos it's enough to screw anyone up. Onetime I used a new product I was unfamiliar with and got the manager at Sherwin Williams to tell me how to use it and it came back to bite me. The finish wasn't usable for the application I intended but I applied it as instructed. Just goes to show anyone can screw up.


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## rkl423 (Sep 7, 2018)

Well I ordered an orbital sander and multi pack of different sanding discs. Next questions - after resanding should I still use the wood preconditioner or skip it? The other side of the desk top is in a lot better shape what grade disc to use on that? The stain was Minwax and the label said to leave it on for 5 to 15 minutes before wiping. Next time I'll get better rags and wipe the stain right away.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

The shiny spots could be caused by whatever had been spilled on the desk over the past 122 years, and the stain can't penetrate it. Candle wax, maybe?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

gj13us said:


> The shiny spots could be caused by whatever had been spilled on the desk over the past 122 years, and the stain can't penetrate it. Candle wax, maybe?


That is just another reason you should chemically strip the finish off when doing refinishing. If something such as a candle was melted into the wood paint stripper would remove enough of it that it wouldn't cause problems. If you sand a finish off and there has been wax melted into the wood the sander is just going to smear it around. Refinishing wood is just a completely different animal than metal. If you were to refinish the fender on your car it would be completely acceptable to sand the paint off but wood is porous and stuff gets into the wood that can come back to haunt you.


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## rkl423 (Sep 7, 2018)

My thanks to Steve for suggesting an orbital sander. I used it last night for the first time ever with an 80 grade sanding disc and it pretty much smoothed away all the names carved into the desk top! It still needs a little more sanding but after that disaster I had with the wood filler, it was really encouraging to see the desk was not ruined. I am not sure if the pre-wood conditioner should be used again. Thoughts?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It's difficult to tell from the picture what kind of wood the desk is made out of. Some woods are prone to go blotchy if you don't use a wood conditioner. Pine, maple, poplar or alder are among some of the woods prone to blotch. The wood filler not taking a stain is a minor problem compared to the stain going blotchy. You could always use touch up markers on the filler or mix some paint to color the filler with a small brush. 

If you don't know what kind of wood it is you might post a picture of the sanded wood to give us a shot at it.


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## rkl423 (Sep 7, 2018)

Okay I'll post a photo this week. Actually there is very little wood filler left. The sanding removed most of the carvings and the filler went with it. My guess is the wood is oak. The desk was made by the Chandler Desk Company of Massachusetts in the late 1800's. Here are a few pictures of what it looked like when I got it. It was in bad shape.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

*A Stain Tip*

If you leave stain on a little too long (Emphasis LITTLE) there is a trick, just wet your wiping rag with solvent.

Solvent is water for water based stains and mineral spirits for oil based stains.

If the stain has been left on way too long, try lacquer thinner. When all else fails use MEK if you can still find it at the paint store or home center. .


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## rkl423 (Sep 7, 2018)

Here is what the wood looks like now after some sanding. Oak maybe? It still has some lines carved into it but at least the names and a big peace sign are gone.


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