# Table saw saftey/pushstick



## jjboozel (Mar 11, 2013)

Hi guys, yesterday I bought a table saw that came right from hell. No blade guard 1 1/2 HP motor spinning a carbide tipped blade using a belt. It's from 1950 no joke. What I want though is to maw this thing as safe as possible, first off is there anyway I can rig a kickback jig on it. When I finish my cut the cutoff peice always feels like it wants to come back at me. So I have to push it the whole way through which I don't like. Will I be ok if I just leave that peice there? Can I rig up a kickback system? Second what's your favorite push stick? I was looking at a set from woodcraft has 2 push blocks one 16" push block and one push stick. Anybody know anything better? Also will a feather board do any good for me? I've never used one but have always cut on a SAWSTOP never one from hell. Any and all help will be appreciated thank you!!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*all of your questions have been answered here*

You have to do "some" searching on your own here and on You Tube. But briefly you should ALWAYS push the workpiece all the way through with a push block, NEVER your hands unless it's very wide...12" or more.
The push BLOCK.... rather than a push STICK will allow you to press DOWNWARD, IN towards the fence and FORWARD all at the same time! :thumbsup::thumbsup: A splitter is the best guarantee the work can NOT rotate away from the fence and come back at you.

Search some more and come back with your unanswered questions. :yes:


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## jjboozel (Mar 11, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> You have to do "some" searching on your own here and on You Tube. But briefly you should ALWAYS push the workpiece all the way through with a push block, NEVER your hands unless it's very wide...12" or more.
> The push BLOCK.... rather than a push STICK will allow you to press DOWNWARD, IN towards the fence and FORWARD all at the same time! :thumbsup::thumbsup: A splitter is the best guarantee the work can rotate off the fence and come back at you.
> Search some more and come back with your unanswered questions. :yes:


Thanks so much! I am in the process of it. Just figured I'd get this posted. I'm so used to the $5000 SAWSTOP. And no I don't think it gives me a false sense of security but I also know that this saw will cut whatever you put into it. I don't think I can get a splitter in it. There is no place for one.


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

You can make your own feather boards. The hardware was 5 bucks I think from Rockler:








I use a feather board whenever possible


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

jjboozel said:


> I don't think I can get a splitter in it. There is no place for one.


How about a micro splitter in the insert? The insert may be metal, but should be easy for you to make a zero clearance replacement and add a micro splitter. Much better than no splitter.

http://www.woodcraft.com/category/2005067/micro-jig-mj-splitter.aspx

I like to use this push stick. Tall, keeps my hand well above the table/blade and allows me to push down and forward.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=30067&cat=1,42207,49759&ap=1

+1 with Mengtian, I also use a featherboard where possible.


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## jjboozel (Mar 11, 2013)

mengtian said:


> You can make your own feather boards. The hardware was 5 bucks I think from Rockler:
> 
> I use a feather board whenever possible


Can u send me a cutlist for that?


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## jjboozel (Mar 11, 2013)

Dave Paine said:


> How about a micro splitter in the insert? The insert may be metal, but should be easy for you to make a zero clearance replacement and add a micro splitter. Much better than no splitter.
> 
> http://www.woodcraft.com/category/2005067/micro-jig-mj-splitter.aspx
> 
> ...


Will the splitter to right into the insert? Also that pushstick looks like a pain. Would make me feel like it's gunna slip. Will it?


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Try this site or find one that is similair:
http://woodworking.about.com/od/woodworkingjigs/ss/Featherboard.htm

I based it off of that and fit to my TS. For the slots I drilled two holes (and used a scroll saw to get rid of the waste.

Here is a link for the miter slot hardware:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16423&filter=26993


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

jjboozel said:


> Will the splitter to right into the insert? Also that pushstick looks like a pain. Would make me feel like it's gunna slip. Will it?


Yes the splitter installs in the insert just behind the blade.

The push stick has a spring loaded rear toe, not seen in the LV picture. If the piece is > about 1/2in thick I use the toe. If less, I press down and use the friction of the rubber insert. I have not had this slip on me so far.


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## jjboozel (Mar 11, 2013)

Dave Paine said:


> Yes the splitter installs in the insert just behind the blade.
> 
> The push stick has a spring loaded rear toe, not seen in the LV picture. If the piece is > about 1/2in thick I use the toe. If less, I press down and use the friction of the rubber insert. I have not had this slip on me so far.


Excellent! Thanks! I will defiantly look into both. The saw is fine it's just like a lower end table saw you would buy from lowes it's just older. I want to make it as safe as possible.


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## GoIrish (Jan 29, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> How about a micro splitter in the insert? The insert may be metal, but should be easy for you to make a zero clearance replacement and add a micro splitter. Much better than no splitter.
> 
> http://www.woodcraft.com/category/2005067/micro-jig-mj-splitter.aspx
> 
> ...


I used this on my old saw. Works well.


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## jjboozel (Mar 11, 2013)

GoIrish said:


> I used this on my old saw. Works well.


Cool. Thank you! Does It make you feel more safe? Cause I can't put a guard on it. But hopefully
The splitter will help


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## Itchytoe (Dec 17, 2011)

Just remember, a kickback can happen with or without a splitter. Don't let the featherboards, splitters, guards, and push sticks/shoes make you lose sight of how dangerous that blade still is.

I use push sticks that I made from scraps. I have a bunch so if I have to make a really tight cut and cut off a slice of my push stick, I don't care. They were scraps from the start and kept my fingers where they belong. That's a win in my book.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

jjboozel said:


> Cool. Thank you! Does It make you feel more safe? Cause I can't put a guard on it. But hopefully
> The splitter will help


I used the micro splitter on my first table saw which did not have a riving knife. There were some pieces of wood which had internal stress and wanted to close up after the blade. The splitter prevented the wood from closing up, and I feel prevented kick-backs which is the intent of the design.


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## GoIrish (Jan 29, 2012)

I had the same experience as Dave. Occasionally had a board close on the jig and was able to turn the saw off or sometimes keep going. I am sure it save a kick back or two. 

Before it I had it I had a scary incident with 1/4 plywood. Back end started flopping and it caught the blade and shot 20' across the garage. It would not have been able to get into the blade if I had the guard on or the micro jig in place. Feather boards and a variety of push sticks help too.


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## Paarker (Mar 20, 2013)

What brand of saw is it maybe someone has some spare parts laying around for that model. If it has a zero clearance insert may a mj splitter will work for you. I am sure there is some kind of aftermarket guard that will work for you also.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*there are 2 types of kickback*



Itchytoe said:


> Just remember, a kickback can happen with or without a splitter. .....


The splitter or riving knife does 2 things:
1. it will prevent the kerf from closing on the back of the rotating blade which would otherwise climb up and over and come back at you. A properly setup fence will allow you to release the workpiece at any point .....it MAY tend to gradually creep back toward you slowly. If it fires back at you, the fence is set too close at the rear. I set my fence parallel to the miter slots as is the blade.
If the workpiece opens on the back of the blade, pushing it any further will become difficult if not impossible. Shut the saw off and start from the other direction and meet in the middle.

2. It will prevent a panel or workpiece from moving away from the fence at the rear, especially a thin piece, and rotate up and over the blade, and coming back at you.

I have not had a kickback when using the splitters on my saws, AND I feel "less safe" when I don't have it mounted up. There are certain operations where using a splitter is just not possible but where a riving knife would allow it, since it's always just below the blade height.

The thin kerf blades are more sensitive to kickback since there is less kerf. A full kerf blade has more space for the plate of the blade to fit, but they remove more material and require more power.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Keep in mind any of the safety items minimize the possibility of kickback, but don't prevent it. As for safety, the blade guard will be your best bet of the devices that come with the saw. With either a splitter or a riving knife, stock can force itself away from the fence and bind on either of those devices. Be aware of a change in the feed rate, and likely cutting sounds that may all of a sudden are different.



















.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

cabinetman said:


> Keep in mind any of the safety items minimize the possibility of kickback, but don't prevent it. As for safety, the blade guard will be your best bet of the devices that come with the saw. With either a splitter or a riving knife, stock can force itself away from the fence and bind on either of those devices. Be aware of a change in the feed rate, *and likely cutting sounds that may all of a sudden are different.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

It is always a distictive sound when an accident is happening to someone not skilled on a tablesaw... :yes:



All of the tablesaws I have used for the past boatload of years have been similar to Glocks... 

"Safety" is in knowing where to NOT put your fingers...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

OnealWoodworking said:


> It is always a distictive sound when an accident is happening to someone not skilled on a tablesaw...


So, are you saying it's not a distinctive sound to a skilled operator?



















.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

cabinetman said:


> So, are you saying it's not a distinctive sound to a skilled operator?


 
Not what I said at all...


A 'skilled' operator can tell by the SOUND when some 'rookie' that does know what the heck he is doing is in the process of 'causing' an accident...

It used to really be funny back when I was a LOT younger and the shop I worked in at that time would hire a 'new guy' that was a LOT older than me but that had NO experience running a tablesaw at all...

EVEN THOUGH I 'KNEW' my **** - These 'older' guys were simply NOT about to take 'advice' from some young 'whipper snapper' like me 'just because'... :no:

I could CLEARLY hear from the other side of the shop when these idiots were straining the hell out of the blade and ABOUT to mess up and potentially hurt themselves... :smile:

You try to give them some advice and they *shoo you away* telling you crap like, "I got it under control"... or "I know how to DO this"... 

Back then - I would 'try' to 'advise' them once or twice and after being 'shooed away' a few times - I would leave them to it and tell them NOT to come crying for ME when their ass got tore up because I don't tolerate fools 'bleeding' in my vehicle... I don't get paid for THAT sort of garbage... :no:

The sound of a good kickback is very distictive... (LOL!) :smile:


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