# Sharpening?



## Gary0855 (Aug 3, 2010)

I have a few old carving chisels from my Grandfather and I would like to use them in carving, What do I need to sharpen this? Some kind of slip stone?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I would recommend using natural stones to sharpen the chisels. Most of the places that sell the stones sell honing oil to use with them but I was taught by a old German woodcarver to never use oil on the stones. He said to use water only and to keep them stored in water. He explained that water would rust away any metal that became impacted in the pores of the stone. I have to agree with him because the stones he had me buy 35 years ago are as good today as the day I bought them. Now the image is from a old Garret Wade Woodworking catalog. The chisel you have in the pictures I would use slip stones. The terminology may vary but you would start with a coarse or soft stone, then medium, then fine and finally a hard or extra fine stone. Its like sanding wood you use finer and finer abrasive until you polish an edge on the chisel. Then I have a piece of leather stretched over a piece of 1x4 which is loaded down with a jewelers rouge that I strop the chisel on for a final polish.

When you look for stones I would try to purchase a woodcarvers mallet because a steel hammer will damage the handles. Besides when you carve something you need to look at what you are doing rather then aiming at the chisel handle. 

Actually as heavy as the chisels are I believe they may be worn out lathe chisels. The chisel is also ground backwards, the bevil should be ground on the other side of the chisel.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Is that sharpened on the concave side or the convex side, most curved chisels that I have seen are sharpened with the bevel on the convex side.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

That is an incannel gouge, not really a carving tool and not a lathe tool. Old time carpenters seldom had electricity, most would have had large chisels, gouges, hatchets and other heavier tools used for removing larger amounts of wood. Gouges were also used by pattern makers and sculptors. It can be used to scorp out waste, undercut sand cast patterns, work on shapes. Many would have used a grinding wheel to sharpen their gouges and wouldn't have been putting fine edges on them for most work. You could use it to cut a matching shape and cover that with fine sandpaper to use for sharpening. You want to be careful not to alter the shape.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Steve's reply is probably best so far. 

If you did not want to go that way you may find this video good

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Hw5eeWvubBw&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Hw5eeWvubBw

Your chisel appears to have the opposite bevel cut to most and therefore you would need to sharpen it 'upside down'

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The reason I think maybe its a lathe chisel is the thickness of the steel in the gouge. I have a lathe gouge here next to a woodcarvers gouge. The steel in the lathe gouge is more than double the thickness than the carving chisel.


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## Gary0855 (Aug 3, 2010)

A little more info, I should say they belonged to my Great Grandfather that was a Wheelwright, from the old country, and my Grandfather was a carpenter as well as a boat builder. 

The small one and the one on the right are ground opposite of the one in the middle.

I think they are short for lathe tools, but I'm not sure about the really old lathe tools.


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## Gary0855 (Aug 3, 2010)

Steve, that makes since about the rust. I have always used oil, so I'm guessing I will have to get new stones if I want to switch to water?

I really should buy a nice set of carving tools, but there is something about a 4th generation woodworker using the same tools.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Hammer is absolutely correct. It's an incannel gouge and definitely not a lathe tool. These old gouges or getting harder and harder to find, especially their paring cousins. These incannel gouges are very useful, there are simply cases when an outcannel won't do.

It's a tool most modern ww's are not familiar with because they've just never seen them.

As hammer said, it's not worth stressing over the sharpening. Just be thorough and methodical about it. You would do well to inspect the bevel prior to sharpening as you may need to fix some areas of the bevel first but it appears to be in decent shape already.

Either a dowel wrapped with wet-dry paper and lubes with MS or what i prefer is diluted green cleaner in a spray bottle. Also, you can find oval shaped diamond hones made for sharpening kitchen knives and those work very well. The solid surfaced ones are better than the honey comb looking ones. Good luck.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I am in the majority who had not heard of an incannel gouge.

I had to do some internet searches.

In one of the links was a page about sharpening in case this helps.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/jThompson/jimT/restore/incannelGouge/index.asp

While looking at the various pages, I came across another term I had not heard, may be British "Fox wedging" a blind M&T joint.

So much to learn......:blink:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gary0855 said:


> Steve, that makes since about the rust. I have always used oil, so I'm guessing I will have to get new stones if I want to switch to water?
> 
> I really should buy a nice set of carving tools, but there is something about a 4th generation woodworker using the same tools.


 I figure those guys selling stones want you to use oil so they can sell more stones. Anyway there was a discussion a week or two ago about cleaning oil from sharpening stones. I believe one person said when their wife was away they ran them through the dish washer. I believe a wax and grease remover would work. Perhaps purple power especially if it was heated some. If they were mine I would continue to use them regardless but suspend using oil on them. I just wouldn't put oil on new stones. At the time when I was buying stones the people in the stores were really pressuring me to purchase oil. That's why I brought it in the conversation. I really need to buy a few myself. A couple of mine have gotten broken and it has me running my fingers a little too close the sharp stuff. 


If at some time you want to purchase chisels, you can pm me and I will help you put together a set. So many chisels a person buys looks good but are seldom used. I can give you a list of the ones I use most. The two big gouges you have, you probably won't have much use for. The little one you will. It looks like its perhaps sweeps 11 about 12mm. Sweeps is the contour and the 12mm is the width of the chisel.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> While looking at the various pages, I came across another term I had not heard, may be British "Fox wedging" a blind M&T joint.
> 
> So much to learn......:blink:


not to hijack the thread but yeah fox wedging is pretty dang cool. I can say from experience though despite it seeming like a great idea it doesn't hold up so hot on large mallets!


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## Gary0855 (Aug 3, 2010)

Some of the things I have carved, just to show how much of a novice I am.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Nice work

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Gary nice carving I like it :thumbsup:.

The connection to your Grandfather the Boat builder and the gouges ties in well because in and out channel gouges are typical Shipwrights tools.

How to sharpen them, well how do you sharpen any tool?With a lot and a lot of practise and with gouges good slip stones.

You should use the slip stone like you would use a round rasp twisting your wrist as you work across the bevel of the gouge.

Don`t concentrate on the cutting edge but on the whole bevel as you work across it. Good luck but don`t disparage if you don`t get it right first time it takes practise.

Like Dave I keep my stones in water and don`t use oil,I use a very thin dish soap,I did suggest cleaning a blocked stone in a dish washer try it and see what you think.

Gary I hope you don`t mind if I just mention the Fox wedged M&T joint. I use it when building doors and JMHO I think its a first class joint but it has to be just just right.

Under cut the mortice just a wee bit to much and the tenon will not be tight,cut the wedges to thick and the tenon will not go all the way into the mortice and you wont get it out again.

Thats why it is also called the suicide joint. 

Billy


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Forgot to add a pic some tools just need a slip stone.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gary, I don't think you are a novice. Your work looks good to me. I would suggest you turn your attention to furniture. You could build some antique reproductions and put some ball and claw feet on them or apply some relief carving on them. You could use some chisels with a more shallow sweep to work the backgrounds. On furniture you would need to carve the background smoother then your USN plaque. It looks fine on the plaque but on furniture you want to see as little tool marks as possible.


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## Gary0855 (Aug 3, 2010)

Steve, I know what you mean with the backround, I had to work with what I had though. 
Thanks for the list of tools, I will pick up some of the most used ones first.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If there is anything else I can do let me know. 

After looking into it I think others were right about the incannel gouge. I had never heard the term before and I was just looking at the pictures. I looked up incannel and it seems the chisels were mainly used in coping molding so I can see how the reverse grind on the chisel would be useful. I can also see how you could make use the chisel in woodcarving defining a radius shape. I use a gouge for this but since mine are outcannel gouges I have to hold the chisel on a angle to make the cut. With the incannel gouge you could just hold the chisel straight up.


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