# HF dust collector



## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I have the larger HF dust collector that I have had for a few years. I am now in the process of separating the planer from the table saw and miter saw. I just bought a new dust collector for the planer and now I want to use the old one for the table saw and miter saw. I need to run one tube (4" pvc) up a wall from the ground to about 7 ft high. I am wondering if this machine will pull dust up that tube and out. I will have about a 10 ft run from there to the outside.

I may run this machine for nothing but the table saw and another machine for nothing but the miter saw. Not sure yet. I guess it depends on if this machine will pull the dust up that tube. If the table saw is the only machine it's pulling from it seems like it will but I wondered if any of you may know for sure. Thanks


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the effect of gravity?*

I've always wondered what the difference would be in a horizontal run of 7 ft vs a vertical run of 7 ft assuming the DC was at the end of the pipe/hose. The only difference is the effect of gravity on the small chips whose weight would seem not to be a great factor. That's just my theory and have not tested it. 

All my table saw duct work runs right along the floor and into the DC unit with no more than a 12" rise. The dual drum sander and the planers have the the dust ports about 4 ft off the floor then the hose drops down into the DC impeller. Both systems seem to work fine, using the Jet 1100 CFM collectors rated at 1 1/2 HP. I found it cheaper/easier to buy 2 DC units than to run ductwork all over the shop with ceiling runs and drops. The Jets are both on casters so I can locate them wherever I need them. 

I do know that most table saws are not effective dust collectors when the DC port is on the bottom, just off the floor. Basically gravity and a slanted panel feed the dust into the port, since there is not any real significant amount of suction within the cabinet itself.

:smile3:


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Ok, I see what you mean. It would seem that the dust off the table saw weighs very little. So I guess I will connect some pieces tomorrow and see what it does. Anyone else have an opinion on how well this will work?

Currently with the DC right behind the table saw it pulls all the dust out pretty well. The saw is a Grizzly 10"cabinet saw. I can always T it off and see if it has enough suction for both machines. If not I am running more pipes. 

I have found that 4" sewer PVC works well. It's thin so the inside diameter is large and it is teflon lined so nothing should stick inside. I also bought large sweeping 90s instead of the short tight turn regular PVC ones. They work great on the planer. It puts out large pieces that clump quite a bit. It used to stop up at the fittings but not since I went with larger line.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

I have the same HF DC and run 4" sewer PVC from the floor to the 8' ceiling and across a 20' shop with several drops for different tools and it works.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

tvman44 said:


> I have the same HF DC and run 4" sewer PVC from the floor to the 8' ceiling and across a 20' shop with several drops for different tools and it works.


Great, that's what I'm using. With the planer using regular 4" pvc I was getting it stopping up at the joint were it goes in and that cross in the inlet of the turbine housing. I cut out the cross and stopped that from happening but it still did it at the other end just above the planer. So I swapped it out for sewer pvc with the teflon lining. Not sure that helps but it has a much larger internal diameter. now the only choke point is the metal chute on the planer. I bought a metal stove up pipe piece that is larger to replace that with. Another issue there is the metal piece in the chute extends in and the edges catch shavings and eventually makes a clog. But the rest of the system flows well. The only thing I want to change in that whole thing is the Y at the turbine housing. I want to swap that for a reducer as I only need one inlet there. 

On a side note... My other thought on that machine is I hate the clamps that hold the bag. This one didn't even come with a new bag. I use the 3 mil 55 gallon black bags from Home Depot. I may glue on some clothes pins to help swapping the bag. We generate one bag a day at least and sometimes 1&1/2 to 2 bags a day. I have seen all kinds of changes to the bag setup but none that look like they make it easier to change the bag. 


Back to the one I am working on now. I have an old one that is inside the shop connected to the table saw. It was pulling from table saw and planer but it gets shavings inside the shop and it's a tight squeeze so changing the bag and getting the full one out is a pain. So now that I have the planer on it's own machine I am today finally moving the other machine out back to handle dust from the table saw. So I guess I will soft connect all these pieces and see what it will pull. There is a pile built up in the table saw cabinet so I can push those through and see how well it sucks them up. If all goes well I can glue the pieces together. Then the next step is another machine for the miter saw. I am thinking the smaller HF collector for that use.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

One thing I did where ever I needed to make a 90° turn instead of using a 90° elbow I used 2 45° together to get my 90°. Makes for a more gentle turn and less loss.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> I've always wondered what the difference would be in a horizontal run of 7 ft vs a vertical run of 7 ft assuming the DC was at the end of the pipe/hose. The only difference is the effect of gravity on the small chips whose weight would seem not to be a great factor. That's just my theory and have not tested it.
> 
> All my table saw duct work runs right along the floor and into the DC unit with no more than a 12" rise. The dual drum sander and the planers have the the dust ports about 4 ft off the floor then the hose drops down into the DC impeller. Both systems seem to work fine, using the Jet 1100 CFM collectors rated at 1 1/2 HP. I found it cheaper/easier to buy 2 DC units than to run ductwork all over the shop with ceiling runs and drops. The Jets are both on casters so I can locate them wherever I need them.
> 
> ...


Id wager there wouldnt be much of a measurable effect on sawdust, but something like chips from a planer or jointer i can see there being an effect on. Pity i cant remember anything from high school physics, otherwise id remember how to calculate the difference... Any math teachers out there? Now i wanna know the numbers


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## ducbsa (Jul 6, 2014)

This page gives velocities for various materials. Using that to size your ducts will take care of vertical lift of the particles.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Air speed, FPM vs air volume, CFM*



epicfail48 said:


> Id wager there wouldn't be much of a measurable effect on sawdust, but something like chips from a planer or jointer i can see there being an effect on. Pity i cant remember anything from high school physics, otherwise id remember how to calculate the difference... Any math teachers out there? Now i wanna know the numbers


Chips and dust from different machines require a different air volume. Bill Pentz recommends an air speed of 4000 FPM. This chart show which air volume, or CFM is needed:









Calculating or measuring air volumes requires some special electronic equipment and meters. Much information is on the Bill Pentz site, including fan blower size, duct sizes and HP requirements:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/cyclone_plan.cfm#air_volume


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

tvman44 said:


> One thing I did where ever I needed to make a 90° turn instead of using a 90° elbow I used 2 45° together to get my 90°. Makes for a more gentle turn and less loss.


They have this sewer line that is 4" OD and very thin and teflon lined. It comes with special long sweeping 90s like a big curve. I got those.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I hooked up the lines for the table saw last night. Actually worked much better than I thought. So now the planer setup is done, table saw setup is done. But I will have to make a box on the back of the miter saw and pipe it out as well. Not sure yet if I want to T off the table saw or do another machine outside. 

One thing I saw at HD was a reducer from 5" to 4" that is rubber. I got some of those for the inlet of each DC so I could get rid of the Y they come with. That helped as well. I also put one on the outfeed side of the machine outside with a tube on it to get it away from the building. Today I will be running wiring and switches.


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## ducbsa (Jul 6, 2014)

I used one of these for my miter saw:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/12-in-x-4-in-to-6-in-End-Register-Box-ERB12X4X6/100121346


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

That's pretty cool. Gotta do something similar. My miter saw is the Dewalt SCMS and it has this little chute under the slider that shoots the dust out the back. Well most of it. It's right against the wall and the dust piles up behind the bench that it sits on. So I figure I can make a box and catch most of it. Just no sure if I can plumb it onto the system I have now or if I need another one. The suction on the system for the table saw seems to be pretty good. Might be able to do it there and add a gate if I need to. 

I used the table saw yesterday and it worked great. Today is the first day of actual production work where I will use it quite a bit. I also still have to run wiring and switches. For now I will have to go outside and turn it on. The main thing for me was separating the table saw from the planer. The planer making such big chips needs it's own system and dedicated suction just for it.I have used it as a stand alone for two weeks. It's only clogged a few times. As I said above somewhere it was clogging at the inlet of the impeller housing at that cross. I cut that metal out and stopped that. Now it only clogs at the planer out feed chute. I will probably mod the chute this week. 

I'll get some pics today. I appreciate all the help.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

VIFmike said:


> Not sure yet if I want to T off the table saw or do another machine outside.


I've not yet started on any dust collection system, but I am following these threads to get ideas. On this point of multiple drops off one outlet line ... is it possible/desirable/worth it to put valves in the drops? To allow for only one vacuum draw at a time? 
Seems to me, this would allow several drops, but only require vacuum capability for one or two.

After all, I can only use one tool at a time, why provide vacuum to all the tools I am NOT using?


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

mikechell said:


> I've not yet started on any dust collection system, but I am following these threads to get ideas. On this point of multiple drops off one outlet line ... is it possible/desirable/worth it to put valves in the drops? To allow for only one vacuum draw at a time?
> Seems to me, this would allow several drops, but only require vacuum capability for one or two.
> 
> After all, I can only use one tool at a time, why provide vacuum to all the tools I am NOT using?


I had mine set up that way before but the valves kept getting clogged and would not close. Not sure if that was because they were cheap HF valves or what.


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## ducbsa (Jul 6, 2014)

VIFmike said:


> I had mine set up that way before but the valves kept getting clogged and would not close. Not sure if that was because they were cheap HF valves or what.


Rockler gates don't look very different from HF items as far as function goes.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I was pushing dust around in the cabinet of the table saw this morning. Man this thing has some powerful suction. I think I can add the miter saw to this and still have enough. More to come this weekend.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Dust collection is still very much on my to do list and I'm pretty much stuck with a very low budget option using an absolute minimum of floor space. Hopefully this happens sometime before future archeologists find my mummified corpse buried under layers of sawdust as if a sawdust volcano happened.. 
I noticed HF has two different types, 13 gallon and the 70 gallon..I don't really have space to run different hoses and pipes all over the place and very seldom will I ever run more than one piece of equipment at a time so I'm thinking that the smaller unit might work out..mostly it's the table saw and the planer that makes the vast majority of the mess here.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

So after a couple weeks of this new setup I see that it works great. My shop is a productions shop so we use the planer and saws all day. The new setup on the planer being by itself and larger tube works great. The new setup on the table saw also works great. The table saw setup has so much suction that I think I can run the miter saw to it also and not have any issues. 

I think I am going to build a new miter saw table and a box on the back of it to catch the dust. More to come on this.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

Did you consider a Thein style separator ahead of the DC inlet? I have one and it catches all of the chips, dust, ect. before it gets to the blower and I don't use a bag at all, I vent the blower to the outside. The barrel of my separator is easy to empty.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

tvman44 said:


> Did you consider a Thein style separator ahead of the DC inlet? I have one and it catches all of the chips, dust, ect. before it gets to the blower and I don't use a bag at all, I vent the blower to the outside. The barrel of my separator is easy to empty.


I did but it won't work for me. I use the big huge black 42 gallon bags on the collector for the planer. We make one to one and a half bags a day and sometimes up to two bags. Way too much to just let pile up out back. I do donate the shavings to people that have animals.

My other one hooked to the table saw and soon to the miter saw does blow straight out the back via short pipe.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

I use the 4" s&d pipe with branches and gates and it works good for me. I just recently upgraded my jointer and rearranged a few tools and some of the dust collection and so far it's great. I use the metal woodstock gates. They're kinda pricy but after reading so many bad reviews on the plastic gates I choose not to waste money on them.


















love my floor sweep too. Use it all the time.






I have one branch coming off the D.C. To my bandsaw, jointer, floor sweep and planer. The other branch goes to my table saw, miter saw and will go to my RAS. I've been watching some YouTube videos about dust collection on RAS and have seen some good ideas....I want to rework my ms dust collection too. Right now I have it in a box with the D.C. split to 2", one goes to a hose on the ms and another goes to the bottom of the box with an old shop vac sweep. I wanna take all of that out, open the bottom of the box and put in a big gulp or some hvac venting like the pic above (great idea!) which stays 4"


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Very nice setup you have there. Mine is much more primative. Now that I have the table saw on it's own machine I have been blowing the dust straight out the back wall into the yard. I am out in the country on 2.25 acres and most of that is out back. So it has not piled up at all. In fact it's blowing away when it's not wet. Right now it is wet and it's supposed to be tomorrow also. So we shall see how much it sticks. But other than that it's fine. Now the next project is running proper wiring to it and it's twin. 

The other one doing nothing but shavings is doing well also. More suction for both of them now with the larger sewer pipe. But I moved the main unit originally to get the spilled shavings out of the shop. But now those are piling up in the other room by the back door where I moved it. So I plan to move the unit outside right under and to the side of the other unit. I am also going to make some modifications at the same time. More to come on that with pics. 

I was going to make the new miter saw table this weekend but I am not finished with another project. I took out a 3 panel sliding glass door, framed it in with a single swing door and used one of the pieces of glass to make a bay window. Still have some sheetrock work, paint work and outside siding work to do on that. But rain has forced me off that job. 

So now I am going to change projects today and tomorrow and just see what all I can get done. Anything I do has to be completed before Monday morning as we work out of this shop. More to come.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm about to upgrade my miter saw table and with that also make the box on the back to catch the dust better than what I have now and also hook that up to the DC system I have now. So after using the other system for weeks I realize that I would really rather have the main one outside. But I won't be able to enclose it until the weather gets better. The one outside for the table saw dust works great. The wind blows away what little dust there is. I planned to move the other DC, the one that gets the shavings off the planer also outside. The problem is it can't get wet. Even though it's under an awning I would need to enclose it. So I'll keep it inside for a little while till I get some better weather. 

But the other issue I have run into was power to the DCs as they do take quite a bit of amps. I don't have enough breaker box for everything to start with. So now I am upgrading to a larger box. I was going to do that today but it's 18 degrees here in Texas. So I think I've decided against cutting the power for a couple hours. Heck I don't think my shop heaters will get the temp above 40 today. Might just need to take the day off. I guess I can go get all the extra stuff I need for the swap.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I don't see a tag anywhere on the HF dust collectors. I am looking for how many amps they draw when running. Does anyone know off hand?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Check the web site*



VIFmike said:


> I don't see a tag anywhere on the HF dust collectors. I am looking for how many amps they draw when running. Does anyone know off hand?


The specs call out a 20 AMP draw for the 2 HP model:
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> The specs call out a 20 AMP draw for the 2 HP model:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html


Dangit! I should have know to look there first. I'm buying breakers for the new electric panel I am installing. Thanks


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