# Old Craftsman 10" table saw



## BForse

Hello all. I've been in the market for a table saw and came across a 20 year old Craftsman in good shape. Looks like a contractors saw (motor exposed in the back). I've read some questionable reviews about the new ones, but what about the old ones?

I'm new to the hobby, and this will be my first table saw. I plan to use it for small home projects, like a work bench, aquariums stands / canopies, toys etc. Any input will be appreciated!


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## dodgeboy77

If you search around this site you'll find a lot of information about the older Sears saws. Most were built by Emerson and are comparable to the newer Ridgid table saws. The cast iron top, belt drive models are good basic units and generally considered to be a good value in a used saw. The flex-drive units are probably to be avoided but if you found a belt drive, then that's a good saw. You can often find them in the $100 range.

The weak point would be the fence. They are usable but not as easy to use or accurate as newer units so there is an area that you could upgrade. Another upgrade would be to swap the V-belt for a link type belt to cut down on vibration. Beyond that, they are good contractor saws.

Good luck! If you get it, post pictures and let us know how things go.

Bill


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## woodnthings

*They are a good buy if*

priced around $100 to $150 or so. The fence is usually the weak point. 
Tweaking will help or an aftermarket one. I hated my original Craftsman
fence, but used it for years. I finally parted it out after 50 years of service. The motor out the back and the belt if in good condition will work fine, but dust collection will be a problem sealing off the holes around the back. A new linked belt will reduce vibration...HF and others have them. Tighten the pulleys on the arbor and motor after aligning them.
Then last but not least a new blade. Best bang for the buck is a Freud 40 tooth 10" dia. at Home Depot for $30.00, I have 3 of them on different saws and they are great for the price. A good miter gauge like an Incra will also add accuracy.
Now after you've done all this upgrading you must ask, should I have bought a new saw for a little mre....I donno? That's up to you.
Grizzly has some awesome deals now on table saws.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/mach-specs.aspx?key=530000|530002|530020
:blink: bill


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## knotscott

You've gotten good input from the other guys....that can be a very viable saw. I've had 5 or 6 of those here. The parts alone tend to be worth $100-$150, so there's little downside if it's in that range. Clean it up, align it, get a decent blade for it, and maybe a fence and/or miter gauge upgrade, and it'll serve you well.


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## BForse

Thanks for the info guys.

I get the picture... $150 for the old saw, $40 for a new blade, $200 for a decent fence, another $100 for a good mitre guage = $490 vs a brand new Grizzly including shipping - around $500

I think I know what I'll go with.


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## knotscott

BForse said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> 
> I get the picture... $150 for the old saw, $40 for a new blade, $200 for a decent fence, another $100 for a good mitre guage = $490 vs a brand new Grizzly including shipping - around $500
> 
> I think I know what I'll go with.


Excellent logic! :thumbsup: ...but you'll still need a good blade! How does $20 from Rockler sound (free shipping with code V9294)?


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## BForse

To be honest, I can't tell a quality blade from a poor one yet. I suppose $20 doesn't sound bad though. Do Grizzlys ship without a blade? If it does, is it not a good one? I know I'll have to buy different blades for different jobs, but is the stock one not that great?


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## woodnthings

*This thread will get you started*

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/saw-blade-router-bit-help-please-15035/#post117249
Resident blade guru knottscott has a bunch of threads here. No sense in repeating all that here, now, again.......
Generally speaking, a $20.00 blade is not a good deal, except in this case. Freud Avanti 40 T. or a Freud Diablo $30.00 at Home Depot. :thumbsup: bill


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## dodgeboy77

BForce,

I guess it depend on your $$$ situation. If you can afford a new Grizzly, by all means go order one.

However, though the suggestions about upgrading the fence, belt & blade are all valid, there may be nothing to keep you from bringing home the Craftsman, cleaning, waxing and checking the adjustments, firing it up and using it for several years. Is the fence as nice as a new Beisemeyer? Heck no. Will it work? Yep, though you may have to fuss with it a bit. Same with the belt. It won't be as smooth as a link belt but saws have been made for years without link belts. And maybe someone put a nice carbide blade on the Craftsman at some point.

Getting the inexpensive saw might give you the opportunity to find out how much you'll use one. Then someday down the road you can sell it and upgrade if you feel the need. Or not!

Just some thoughts.

Bill


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## GeorgeC

BForse said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> 
> I get the picture... $150 for the old saw, $40 for a new blade, $200 for a decent fence, another $100 for a good mitre guage = $490 vs a brand new Grizzly including shipping - around $500
> 
> I think I know what I'll go with.


Not going to cost you $250 for fence and miter gauge.

G


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## Geoguy

knotscott said:


> Excellent logic! :thumbsup: ...but you'll still need a good blade! How does $20 from Rockler sound (free shipping with code V9294)?


I don't mean to hiajck this table saw thread but I have a comment about the Avanti saw blade (sorry, I saw the photo and it reminded me of personal experience). I know Knotscott and Woodnthings will not steer you wrong - for $20 it's a good blade. But I have one of these hanging on the wall at my shop where it will continue to hang until all the others are dull, broken, and I have nothing else that will fit on the saw. Somehow, the Avanti didn't work so well for me - it cut great but left HUGE saw marks. I checked my fence allignment and everything I could think of with no luck and then put an old blade back on. I love the Freud blades - I've used a Diablo for years, and in fact, I replaced the Avanti with a Freud glue line ripping blade that is fantastic. I just got the Diablo back from the sharpening shop for the second time and will continue to use it for years to come.

Again, sorry to bend your ear about my saw marks - just my two cents worth (actully, not worth two cents).


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## BForse

Thanks for all your input. I've decided to order a new Grizzly - for reasons I mentioned before and for the safety features I'll be getting with it.

I can buy old stuff when I need something else, but the table saw seemed like something I shouldn't go cheap on. Even if I eventually lose interest in the hobby, I still have a honey-do list a mile long. A table saw will get me a long way through that list. Comes in handy when a hurricane is on the way too. Money well spent imo.

Knottscott - I read your article about blades. It was very helpful to say the least. Thank you Woodnthings for posting the link!


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## dbhost

BForse said:


> Hello all. I've been in the market for a table saw and came across a 20 year old Craftsman in good shape. Looks like a contractors saw (motor exposed in the back). I've read some questionable reviews about the new ones, but what about the old ones?


Sears sells a LARGE variety of tools from a large variety of manufacturers under the Craftsman label. New or old, some of them are really nice tools, and some are real trash, you will need to find out the model number and do a little research to be sure which you are looking at...

Generally speaking the older, say 1960s and earlier saws, were all excellent machines, but there were a good number of now obsolete sizes, like 8" blade saws etc... that just don't play nice anymore. But you said 20 years old, which means late 80's early 90's. I believe the Contractor saws of that era were made by Emmerson, which produced some fantastic contractor saws for both Sears and Ridgid. Probably some others as well... 

The current models that I am familiar with the 21829 (Ryobi BT3x00 clone) and the Zip Code saws (The big cabinet saws) are well regarded, steer clear of the benchtop lightweight cheap saws, they are not that sturdy, and can actually be dangerous to use...

BTW, Welcome from another Clear Lake area member!


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## knotscott

Geoguy said:


> I don't mean to hiajck this table saw thread but I have a comment about the Avanti saw blade (sorry, I saw the photo and it reminded me of personal experience). I know Knotscott and Woodnthings will not steer you wrong - for $20 it's a good blade. But I have one of these hanging on the wall at my shop where it will continue to hang until all the others are dull, broken, and I have nothing else that will fit on the saw. Somehow, the Avanti didn't work so well for me - it cut great but left HUGE saw marks. I checked my fence allignment and everything I could think of with no luck and then put an old blade back on. I love the Freud blades - I've used a Diablo for years, and in fact, I replaced the Avanti with a Freud glue line ripping blade that is fantastic. I just got the Diablo back from the sharpening shop for the second time and will continue to use it for years to come.
> 
> Again, sorry to bend your ear about my saw marks - just my two cents worth (actully, not worth two cents).


The Freud Avanti TK306, Freud Diablo D1040, and Freud LU86R010 are nearly the same blade...very similar, but the LU86 has thicker carbide. It never was quite at the level of the Forrest WWII but should be a solid performer. It sounds like you either got one that's not right, or possibly bought the Chinese "Avanti" knockoff blade from HD, which is not made by Freud, and is not marketed by Freud....Freud discontinued the TK/Avanti line in June 2009. Not only are the "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" knockoffs not suitable for fine woodworking IMO, but I think the attempt to confuse should be boycotted. :thumbdown: 

This TK306 was made by Freud to precision standards in Italy. So are the Diablo and Freud Industrial blades:









This "Avanti" imposter blade was made in China from stamped steel and low grade carbide. It resembles the Oldham contractor series. Note that it does NOT say "Freud" anywhere:








This "Avanti Pro" was also not made by Freud, and closely resembles the DeWalt construction blades, which I also don't recommend for woodworking.


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## Texas Sawduster

*Craftsman saw*

I would not pass to quickly on the vintage Craftsman contractors saw. I have had great success with mine. Except for the crappy fence the rest of the saw is great.
New bearings on the arbour and a very good combo blade will make that table sing. :laughing:

I am considering an additional saw to mate with my current one. Adding more table surface and keep two blades set up instead of changing blades.


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## woodnthings

*LIke this?*

You can't have too much table on a table saw....:no: bill


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## Texas Sawduster

*Yep*

*LIke this?*
You can't have too much table on a table saw....:no: bill 


Yep just like that :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## BForse

T21853 SHOP FOX® 1-1/2 HP 10" Left Tilt Contractor Table Saw 

This is what I bought last night. I was originally after the G0444, but they sold out before I could get one. I wasn't after a left hand tilt saw, but I suppose a safer miter cut is a safer miter cut.


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## knotscott

Congrats on the new saw. The Shop Fox version gives you an extra year warranty too. :thumbsup:


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## jdixon

congrats on the new saw. It should serve you well. Let us know your impressions of it once you have cut a few things.

John


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## BoschPowerTools

Check out the new GTS1031 portable table saw from Bosch!






Now available in-store and online.


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## Handy

Look like a great new tool, I am curious how it will stand up, so let us know.


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## GeorgeC

dodgeboy77 said:


> If you search around this site you'll find a lot of information about the older Sears saws. Most were built by Emerson and are comparable to the newer Ridgid table saws. The cast iron top, belt drive models are good basic units and generally considered to be a good value in a used saw. The flex-drive units are probably to be avoided but if you found a belt drive, then that's a good saw. You can often find them in the $100 range.
> 
> The weak point would be the fence. They are usable but not as easy to use or accurate as newer units so there is an area that you could upgrade. Another upgrade would be to swap the V-belt for a link type belt to cut down on vibration. Beyond that, they are good contractor saws.
> 
> Good luck! If you get it, post pictures and let us know how things go.
> 
> Bill


I agree. My Craftsman table saw is a little older than that but still a very good saw. I updated the fence many years ago. The new fence does make a big difference is the ease and accuracy of cutting.

The only thing I have to watch on my saw are the drive pulleys. Keep the set screws tight.

George


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## Point37

Hi everyone. What do you think I could get for this Craftsman 100 table saw? See photobucket link for additional pictures and video of it running. It's my grandfather's saw that he wants to sell. He was a machinist so he knows how to keep tools in good working order. He put newspaper soaked in oil on the deck to keep it from rusting, the motor was covered and the belt was detached and wasn't cracked at all. It started right up and sounded good as you can see from the video. I was thinking $200. Thank you.
Ryan

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/rgreeny37/craigslist%20for%20sale/?start=all
If you scroll down far enough in the photobucket album you'll see a nice old atlas workshop band saw model 9360 as well


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## sbjforumman

I found this site in trying to find the best table saw available in today's market. Originally I was planning to get a brand new table saw but reading through these reviews has me thinking down another train of thought. I know the original poster bought a brand new one too, still aren't the older ones built in a more sturdy fashion so that once you buy everything to get it up to speed, then you should have a much more reliable blade I wold think? I did read the Bosch 4100-09 reviews, saying that it lasts for a good many years so perhaps longevity isn't really an issue. More thoughts please.


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## Pirate

Good luck with the new saw. If it has steel wings, I would replace the right one with a mica covered shop made one, with a router plate in it.
Other than steel wings, it looks like a good saw.
Again good luck, and report back after making some saw dust.


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## knotscott

sbjforumman said:


> I found this site in trying to find the best table saw available in today's market. Originally I was planning to get a brand new table saw but reading through these reviews has me thinking down another train of thought. I know the original poster bought a brand new one too, still aren't the older ones built in a more sturdy fashion so that once you buy everything to get it up to speed, then you should have a much more reliable blade I wold think? I did read the Bosch 4100-09 reviews, saying that it lasts for a good many years so perhaps longevity isn't really an issue. More thoughts please.


I think you'd be doing yourself a favor by starting a brand new thread, and telling us more about your budget, what you build, whether or not you need a portable or whether a stationary saw will work for you. You'll likely get more interest and more specific suggestions.


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## highfigh

BForse said:


> To be honest, I can't tell a quality blade from a poor one yet. I suppose $20 doesn't sound bad though. Do Grizzlys ship without a blade? If it does, is it not a good one? I know I'll have to buy different blades for different jobs, but is the stock one not that great?


A saw that comes with a blade is more a case of them saying "You need a blade. Here's a blade" than giving you a good blade and this is one area where a saw can seem like a total POS, but the only problem is in the blade. 

As far as blade knowledge, one evening of reading online should get you where you need to be in terms of gaining a basic to moderate level. The main thing- don't use the wrong blade for your application- use a rip blade for ripping or, for wood that's not stringy and wet, a combination blade. Use a crosscut for that, not ripping and if you're cutting wood, a blade for plastic/melamine/solid surface is exactly what you DON'T want. 

Here's a link with some basic info- if you google search 'Table saw blade', you'll find a lot more.

http://www.thesharpcut.com/saw-blade-essentials/

Above all, let the blade do its job- don't force it. 

I like having a line on the top of the saw table to tell me where the blade is when I work with sheet goods.


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## holtzdreher

Gosh. Round here, woodworking is getting to be an obsolete hobby. All the older generation (those who were born in the 1920's and 1930's had home workshops in the 1950's and 1960's. As they die off their kids are selling their stuff for whatever they can get. I paid $12 for a Craftsman 10 inch table saw. No one wanted it because it was wired for 220. I rewired it, blew out the cobwebs, oiled it and installed a new blade. It came with the extended table to the sides and two miter gauges and two fences. Good to go and under $60.00. It is more than adequate for my purposes. I figure the saw is from about 1970. Bought a mid 1970's 10 inch radial arm saw for $25,00 last summer. Same deal, kids having an estate sale to unload "Dad's junk" I asked about other blades for it and they threw in 3 brand new blades. My 8 inch drill press is from the 1930's, a Companion. It sat so long the grease in the head dried out and the chuck would not turn. I cleaned it out, replaced the motor. It was free. I have it stripped down for painting right now. 

For some reason automotive tools, and "cross over tools" like drill presses and bench grinders, still bring a lot. 

Some tools have advanced so much, that it is more difficult to use the older ones. Wood lathes for instance. Everybody wants the new variable speed models. No one wants to stop and change belts onto different pullies. Saw a floor model Delta 12 x 40 sell for less than $50.00 It came out of a school shop class program years ago, probably weighed 500 to 700 pounds. Worth the price for scrap metal . 

Having the brand new shiny is nice and where technology has changed, is worth it. My shop gets dirty and dusty. If I had a new machine, I would spend more time cleaning the shop than working in it. As it is now, my tiny shop gets cleaned out once a month. Machines get well cleaned out and oiled twice a year.


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## Randy123

*Craftsman fence*

Hello, 
Been searching this forum and others for fence information for several hours. Seems everyone has fence problems with old Craftsman table saws  I did not find a specific answer to my question so I will ask . . . 
I purchased and old (manual printed April, 1996) 220 volt, 10", cast iron Craftsman table saw at a garage sale. It runs and cuts great but the fence is a piece of crap.
The table is 30" wide and the model number is 113.298844.
The saw cost $150. I would like to keep the fence cost at or below that if possible. In looking at sites carrying them I could easily spend my inheritance here (
My problem is I have no idea what to order. They don't seem to be listed in widths or "this unit fits this brand / size" etc. I am beginning to see that many after market fences need to be custom fit to the saw frame which could easily overpower my mechanical skills. I don't need a top-of-the-line fence as my work is not that quality specific. I just need a big improvement over what came with the saw.
Anything you gentlemen can tell me is probably more than I know at this moment. I will await your enlightening information, constructive criticism.
Thank you for your time,
Randy


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## highfigh

holtzdreher said:


> Gosh. Round here, woodworking is getting to be an obsolete hobby. All the older generation (those who were born in the 1920's and 1930's had home workshops in the 1950's and 1960's. As they die off their kids are selling their stuff for whatever they can get.


At the risk of side-tracking this thread, the loss of new woodworkers is due to schools ending their shop classes and parents who were never involved in shop classes. The High School where I went sold off the equipment around 25-30 years ago and we had a great program, as well as a complete Delta shop from the '50s, including larger machines, not small hobby types.


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## Steve Neul

Randy123 said:


> Hello,
> Been searching this forum and others for fence information for several hours. Seems everyone has fence problems with old Craftsman table saws  I did not find a specific answer to my question so I will ask . . .
> I purchased and old (manual printed April, 1996) 220 volt, 10", cast iron Craftsman table saw at a garage sale. It runs and cuts great but the fence is a piece of crap.
> The table is 30" wide and the model number is 113.298844.
> The saw cost $150. I would like to keep the fence cost at or below that if possible. In looking at sites carrying them I could easily spend my inheritance here (
> My problem is I have no idea what to order. They don't seem to be listed in widths or "this unit fits this brand / size" etc. I am beginning to see that many after market fences need to be custom fit to the saw frame which could easily overpower my mechanical skills. I don't need a top-of-the-line fence as my work is not that quality specific. I just need a big improvement over what came with the saw.
> Anything you gentlemen can tell me is probably more than I know at this moment. I will await your enlightening information, constructive criticism.
> Thank you for your time,
> Randy


What is the fence doing? It seems like that model has a better fence than some of the Craftsman saw. I have one you have to screw the knob to tighten it. At least yours is a lever action. I had another model Craftsman that had a lever action fence and it worked really well. 

The real problem with a fence upgrade is you would be putting more money in the saw than it's worth. You might look around and see if you can find a used Biesemeyer fence and fit it to your saw.


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## mangorockfish

Randy123 said:


> Hello,
> Been searching this forum and others for fence information for several hours. Seems everyone has fence problems with old Craftsman table saws  I did not find a specific answer to my question so I will ask . . .
> I purchased and old (manual printed April, 1996) 220 volt, 10", cast iron Craftsman table saw at a garage sale. It runs and cuts great but the fence is a piece of crap.
> The table is 30" wide and the model number is 113.298844.
> The saw cost $150. I would like to keep the fence cost at or below that if possible. In looking at sites carrying them I could easily spend my inheritance here (
> My problem is I have no idea what to order. They don't seem to be listed in widths or "this unit fits this brand / size" etc. I am beginning to see that many after market fences need to be custom fit to the saw frame which could easily overpower my mechanical skills. I don't need a top-of-the-line fence as my work is not that quality specific. I just need a big improvement over what came with the saw.
> Anything you gentlemen can tell me is probably more than I know at this moment. I will await your enlightening information, constructive criticism.
> Thank you for your time,
> Randy


Sears sells a 30/24 Align-A-Rip fence system that is great. $140+/- shipped. I just put one on my 113 saw and someone else on here took my advice and got one also. You'll love it. I'll post the number when I have time to look it up, but I think it is the only one Sears sells now.


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## mangorockfish

It is the 9-29910 Align-A-Rip XRC fence system. Bolts right up.


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## highfigh

A Sears 113.27700 8" saw followed me home about 1-1/2 weeks ago- I saw a post in Next Door and the photo showed it sitting at the curb, in the rain. No fence and no motor, but I have motors. The table is 20" from front to back, so the fence kit won't work but I'm looking into building one and copying the Biesemeyer-style version on my Grizzly 1023. I watched some videos on YouTube and will probably use extruded Aluminum with slots, so I can attach things on the top and both faces.


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## allpurpose

knotscott said:


> The Freud Avanti TK306, Freud Diablo D1040, and Freud LU86R010 are nearly the same blade...very similar, but the LU86 has thicker carbide. It never was quite at the level of the Forrest WWII but should be a solid performer. It sounds like you either got one that's not right, or possibly bought the Chinese "Avanti" knockoff blade from HD, which is not made by Freud, and is not marketed by Freud....Freud discontinued the TK/Avanti line in June 2009. Not only are the "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" knockoffs not suitable for fine woodworking IMO, but I think the attempt to confuse should be boycotted. :thumbdown:
> 
> This TK306 was made by Freud to precision standards in Italy. So are the Diablo and Freud Industrial blades:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This "Avanti" imposter blade was made in China from stamped steel and low grade carbide. It resembles the Oldham contractor series. Note that it does NOT say "Freud" anywhere:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This "Avanti Pro" was also not made by Freud, and closely resembles the DeWalt construction blades, which I also don't recommend for woodworking.


I'm only a mere 8 years late here, but I was wondering how anyone could say Avante blades were decent and now I know..I have a few of those 2 for a buck HD Avante blades laying around on the shelf waiting to fall off the shelf and cut my foot off.. Those things are ok maybe for cutting cheese and possibly warm butter, but not much more..


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## allpurpose

mangorockfish said:


> It is the 9-29910 Align-A-Rip XRC fence system. Bolts right up.


Not sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the Align-a-rip system is one of the last decent piece of equipment sold by Sears.. Just wait till they start stamping the Crapman name on them and the extruded aluminum will mysteriously become stamped aluminum foil.. It's not that I think bad things about the Craftsman name or anything..but...locally here in town there's a Sears outlet store located directly beside a HF store and to date I haven't seen anyone leave HF in favor of Sears tools. And I'm DEFINITELY NOT singing the praises of HF tools for too many items they sell.. I just think it's kind of funny the two would be located right beside each other. Of course Sears does sell home appliances, lawn and garden equipment and such. Their tool section doesn't seem to ever turn over any of their stock. Well that's a mystery, eh?


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## Steve Neul

allpurpose said:


> I'm only a mere 8 years late here, but I was wondering how anyone could say Avante blades were decent and now I know..I have a few of those 2 for a buck HD Avante blades laying around on the shelf waiting to fall off the shelf and cut my foot off.. Those things are ok maybe for cutting cheese and possibly warm butter, but not much more..


I don't know where you can get an inexpensive good blade anymore. I tried the Avante blades and didn't care for them. They weren't very sharp when new and didn't take very long before they were too dull to use. Not long ago I bought a I bought a Diablo blade and it wasn't much better. Before that I had been using a Tin blade from HF and it seemed comparable to the Diablo blade. 

It's a wonder the thread is still around. It started off as spam and should have been deleted.


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## allpurpose

"I don't know where you can get an inexpensive good blade anymore"

Yard sales..I bought some good old blades awhile back from an old fella who was selling off his very extensive (and expensive) shop .. I got there a bit late and most of the good deals were already gone, but snatched some decent bandsaw blades..


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## Steve Neul

allpurpose said:


> "I don't know where you can get an inexpensive good blade anymore"
> 
> Yard sales..I bought some good old blades awhile back from an old fella who was selling off his very extensive (and expensive) shop .. I got there a bit late and most of the good deals were already gone, but snatched some decent bandsaw blades..


In my case it's most of a day job to take blades to a sharpening shop and then most of another day to pick them up. I don't like the idea of mail order sharpening so I'm only using new blades. When they get dull the blade goes in a drawer.


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