# Gunstock Blanks from Walnut Crotches



## HomeBody

With all the beautiful walnut crotches I see on this forum, I thought it would be nice to have a thread showing how to turn them into gunstock blanks.

I've stocked guns for 25 yrs. as a hobby and have averaged about one a year. I've cut 5 walnut trees with crotches and dug 2 walnut stumps, turning them all into gunstock blanks. I don't mill wood myself but paid others to cut the slabs for me. I've learned a lot from trial and error and will share what I know.

It took me a while to figure out there are two main types of crotches. The first type is wide and one upper branch comes out at a low angle. These are the best for stocks. The other type is the narrow V which is more common. The wide crotch results from a primary sprout getting pruned when the tree is young. The secondary sprout grows below the pruned sprout at a lower and better angle for gunstocks. Below is a scan from a pruning book that shows the way the sprouts grow.


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## HomeBody

Below is a drawing and some pics of the wide crotch. Drawing 1A is the wide crotch. The red lines indicate where the stock blank will come from.

Pic 1B is a walnut tree with the wide crotch.

Pic 1C is a gun stocked with wood from a wide crotch. I got this pic off the internet and didn't do this one myself. You can see that the feather covers the butt and the grain of the wood flows upward throught the grip and meets the edge of the receiver at a near right angle. You can't get much better than this one. While the beautiful feather gives beauty, it's the grain through the grip that gives the stock its strength. 
The idea is to get the feather design in the butt while at the same time having relatively straight grain in the grip.
The red arrow points to the only flaw on this stock. The grain hits the lower pistol grip at an angle instead of straight making for a weak corner. The metal grip cap has solved that problem, though.


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## HomeBody

The drawing 2A shows the V type crotch, which is by far the most common I've seen and cut up. While not quite as good as the wide crotch, you can still get good blanks out of them. The red line shows where the blank will come from. "Top" means that will be the top edge of the stock when it is on the gun. 

2B shows the typical V type crotch. (For Daren...location Todd's Point Cemetary)

2C is a blank I cut that came from a V crotch. It has great layout and the grain curves the correct way up through the grip. The left edge of the blank in the pic will be the top.


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## HomeBody

Dealing with the pith and cutting slabs...

Walnut has a 1/4" pith that runs right down the center where the feather is. Since I didn't slab my own wood, I didn't really have much control dealing with avoiding the pith. It's a wood waster, I know that. 

Having pith in a gunstock blank is a deal killer. Especially a fancy feather crotch blank. It's just not done. I've never seen a stock from any of the old gunstock companies like Fajen or Bishops send out a stock with pith. You have to avoid it like the plague if you want a stock blank worth good money.

Daren came up with an idea to avoid the pith. You shim up the crotch in your saw so all 3 piths are in the same plane. Then measure from the pith up and mark the wood for your cuts. As you cut slabs and get to the pith line, you would theoretically cut through it and eliminate it.

I think this might work even better if you cut a 1" thick slab right at the pith level. I made a drawing of what Daren explained.

Also attached are two blanks with pith. They're junk. I layed them out and cut them 25 yrs. ago in the first batch I did. Didn't know better. In the second one, you can see that the pith is just below the surface. Both of these will make someone some fine ink pens or bowls.:blink:

Thickness...I've thought a lot about this. Everyone always tell you to cut gunstock blanks 2 1/2". I don't think that's enough. 2 1/2" should be the absolute bare minimum after the blank is sanded to 100 grit. You have to sand all the saw marks out of it to sell it anyway, so having a sanded 2 1/2" blank would be nice. I think to get 2 1/2" sanded thickness, you'd need to adjust your saw to some odd fraction. So, why not cut the slabs 3" and be done with it. If you're processing a crotch to get feather crotch blanks, the top of the line in American grown gun wood, sanded and properly dried, why not make a premium blank a premium size. 

A 3" slab would cover everything. Rifles with cheekpieces that take a bit more wood. Automatic shotguns that have large forends. And probably most important, the guy that runs the duplicator machine won't ruin your wood. Most blanks are sent to someone who chucks it up in a duplicator and copies off an original stock. If the blank it a bit too small or the operator puts it in a bit off, you end up with a flat spot in your blank. Pic of duplicator below.


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## HomeBody

Templates...You have to have a couple of these. I made mine from 3/16" or 1/4" plexiglas. My shotgun (2-piece) template is 18" long by 7" by 3 1/2". I couldn't find my rifle template the last time I went to use it so made one out cardboard. I made it 35" by 8" X 4" and cut out the center in the outline of my Ruger factory stock. It worked for what I needed. For a shotgun forend, I make them 12" long and square, whatever the thickness of your slab is.


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## HomeBody

Forends are easy to cut out of crotch slabs. I learned to lay these out looking at some of Fajens forends. They are invariably done the same. In my drawing, Forend 1, you could get two forend blanks. I'll call them left and right. The idea is to get the feather into about 1/2 the blank, maybe a little more toward the butt end, so say 2/3. Leaving a little straight grain helps with contrast and matches the forend with the buttstock, which will also have some straight grain in it. The straight grain will be toward the front of the forend and towards the top.

The pic Forend 8 would be the same as the left drawing in Forend 1. Both the blank I cut and the finished forend from Fajens are laid out exactly like the drawing. 

The pic Forend 7 are the same ones flipped over and would correspond to the drawing Forend 1 right.

When you lay them out this way, the bottom of the forend, which is what you see when the gun is in a nice gun cabinet, turns out really nice. Pic Forend 6. What you are seeing is the feather turned 90°.

The drawing in the lower right corner would be a forend that is totally feather. I think you could probably get away with doing this but I'm not sure. I always leave a bit of straight grain. You for sure don't want to do this on a buttstock blank.


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## HomeBody

The last pic I have is from a gunstock blank off the internet. Like so many things on the internet, this is just wrong!
They laid this feather crotch blank out with the entire stock covered in feather. It sure looks nice!:no: First, if this wood were stocked on a gun that had heavy recoil there is a good chance the wood would split. And worse, I would not want to be the guy that tried to checker this thing. 

Good luck making some beautiful stock blanks! Gary


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## Daren

*Great write up, thanks a bunch for taking the time. I'm sure it will help many people who read it* :thumbsup:



HomeBody said:


> 2B shows the typical V type crotch. (For Daren...location Todd's Point Cemetary)


Yep, I know right where you're at. I even mentioned the same place in another thread about some catalpa logs, just did not give the name...


Daren said:


> Come to find out these trees came from a very old country cemetery where my great great grandma is and several other family members from 50-75 years ago. So I "know" these trees, I have seen them standing my whole life.



.


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## TexasTimbers

Fantastic tutorial. I don't cut many gunstocks but I do occasionally. This has helped me a ton. Thank you! 





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## ACP

I don't saw but I enjoyed the read and appreciate the effort you put into it. The pics are real purdy too!


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## snav

I love your work on the stocks - and your connection between the tree and wood cut is awesome!


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## Jim_Rogers

Very nice pictures and write up thank

Jim Rogers
Jim Rogers Sawmill


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## Evilfrog

Great thread. Thanks for putting the time into this.


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## Jfore

Awesome posting! Thanks for taking the time to do this.


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## Tennessee Tim

Homebody,
Been out of town or would've wrote earlier. That's a great tutorial.
Looks like your using those talents the Lord's Blessed you with. 
Thanks for the tutorial and have a Blessed evening in Jesus's Love,
Tim


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## jaxonquad

*goodonya*

Great stuff! Thanks for passing on!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## HomeBody

Tennessee Tim said:


> Homebody,
> Been out of town or would've wrote earlier. That's a great tutorial.
> Looks like your using those talents the Lord's Blessed you with.
> Thanks for the tutorial and have a Blessed evening in Jesus's Love,
> Tim


Thanks everyone. Tim, it was your beautiful walnut crotches that motivated me to post the pics. Keep up the good work. Gary


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## tom427cid

Great post, It opened my eyes to a possible source for material for the waist door on a tall clock.
I am still looking for another piece of Walnut similar to the attached pic.







If anyone can help me find a similar piece----well,ya can't have my first born but pretty close.
tom


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## wbevisjr

*Great work!*

Great work! I am just getting started. Any advice you can give on getting started is greatly appreciated.



HomeBody said:


> With all the beautiful walnut crotches I see on this forum, I thought it would be nice to have a thread showing how to turn them into gunstock blanks.
> 
> I've stocked guns for 25 yrs. as a hobby and have averaged about one a year. I've cut 5 walnut trees with crotches and dug 2 walnut stumps, turning them all into gunstock blanks. I don't mill wood myself but paid others to cut the slabs for me. I've learned a lot from trial and error and will share what I know.
> 
> It took me a while to figure out there are two main types of crotches. The first type is wide and one upper branch comes out at a low angle. These are the best for stocks. The other type is the narrow V which is more common. The wide crotch results from a primary sprout getting pruned when the tree is young. The secondary sprout grows below the pruned sprout at a lower and better angle for gunstocks. Below is a scan from a pruning book that shows the way the sprouts grow.


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## amccaul

Beautiful stocks...I have several walnuts blown over in recent storm I need to look at and see if they have any of these in them...beats putting them in firewood!


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## Joe Rebuild

very nice and informative. i am relatively new to sawing your diagrams and detail are very helpful. 

thanks :thumbsup:


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## kmonares

how did you finish the forends and buttstocks in your pictures?


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## scsmith42

Fantastic post! Thanks much for sharing.

Scott


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## Horatio

Joe Rebuild said:


> very nice and informative. i am relatively new to sawing your diagrams and detail are very helpful.
> 
> thanks :thumbsup:


Yeah and more informative than just regarding gun stocks. My uncle always told me he wanted a new stock on his rifle but passed away last year, leaving the gun to me. I don't mind the current set up but perhaps some day he'd appreciate it.


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## HomeBody

kmonares said:


> how did you finish the forends and buttstocks in your pictures?


I used Tru-Oil, applied with your finger. It is easily obtained on ebay. Gary


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## rayking49

What a great post. My uncle has asked me to restock a gun of his, so this has been exceptionally helpful.


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## Dave Paine

HomeBody said:


> I used Tru-Oil, applied with your finger. It is easily obtained on ebay. Gary


+1 on using Tru-Oil. This is a great product for many uses.

This is the sales information from Woodcraft.

"Tru-Oil Gun Stock Finish has been the professional’s choice for gunstock finishing for more than 30 years. It’s also an excellent finish for furniture, turnings and wooden tool handles. Tru-Oil contains a unique blend of linseed and natural oils. The finish dries fast and will not cloud, yellow, or crack with age. It also resists water damage. Tru-Oil Gun Stock Finish penetrates deeply and forms a tough, clear, hard finish that protects and enhances the beauty of fine woods. "

As the other reply stated, apply with fingers, let it soak in then wipe off. Does not get much easier.


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## kpantherpro

wow very cool, might inspire me to try something similar, thanks for all your effort it is appreciated


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## whitedogone

Very nice info. I've always wondered how to get some of those blanks. What kind of saw is used? It seems like it would have to be a big one.


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## Jim_Rogers

Gary:
A tree service guy just brought me some pine logs he wants me to saw up for him.
While he was on his way over here, he decided to bring along a walnut log as well.
I was thinking I'd try and saw up some 3" thick gun stock blanks like you have shown as there are several large branch crotches coming off this log.
What length should these 3" pieces be? What width would you recommend?
Also, if you could, what dimensions on the forend pieces? width and lengths. 
I don't have anyone who wants any stock wood right now, but I thought I'd try and make up some and see if I could sell them.

What price should I get for a 3" thick piece of gun stock blank?

I know that's hard to say, but any advice would be helpful.

Jim Rogers


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## TMH

Would also very much like to know the recommended dimensions. I have a few shotguns I'd like to make some for in the next few years


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## Brian T.

Homebody: Thank you from the other side of the work bench. I peaked out at 12 shotguns. Sadly, I've never been able to afford the guns with the fine woods. I have seen my share of them. Nice to finally learn how and where that magnificent grain comes from.


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## HomeBody

Jim_Rogers said:


> Gary:
> A tree service guy just brought me some pine logs he wants me to saw up for him.
> While he was on his way over here, he decided to bring along a walnut log as well.
> I was thinking I'd try and saw up some 3" thick gun stock blanks like you have shown as there are several large branch crotches coming off this log.
> What length should these 3" pieces be? What width would you recommend?
> Also, if you could, what dimensions on the forend pieces? width and lengths.
> I don't have anyone who wants any stock wood right now, but I thought I'd try and make up some and see if I could sell them.
> 
> What price should I get for a 3" thick piece of gun stock blank?
> 
> I know that's hard to say, but any advice would be helpful.
> 
> Jim Rogers


 
When you cut the crotch out of the log leave the "arms" as long as possible. Leave them as wide as you can fit into the bandsaw or CSM. When you layout the blank on the slab you want to have extra wood above and below the feather, that way you have more of a choice on the better layout.

As to dimensions, a shotgun butt should be 18" long and 7" or 8" wide. You can cut the bottom edge at an angle so the narrower end is 3 1/2". The forend should be 12". A few guns take a longer one, but not many. 

I send my blanks to Macon Gunstocks in MO to get turned into a semi-finished blank. They like to have 2 1/2" thickness on both the butt and forends after they have been planed or rough sanded to 100 grit. Your 3" thick blanks are no problem at all.

Rifle blanks need to be 35" long. If you plan on a cheekpiece you will need all of that 3" thick blank if it's going on a duplicator machine.

If you are making the stock by hand the old fashioned way you can probably get by with a 2" thick butt blank. The extra thickness is needed on the duplicator machines. The forend, on the other hand, has to have the 2 1/2" thickness for guns like pump shotguns that have thick forends, whether you are doing it by duplicator or by hand. 

Prices? I'll sell you a plain straight grain walnut buttstock blank for $10. I also have a blank I wouldn't take $300 for. It just depends on how much figure is in the wood and how much color it has. Plus the all important layout of the grain. Lots of variables.
Gary


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## Jim_Rogers

Thanks for your advice and dimensions.

I have one log that I'm going to try and see if I can get some blanks out of.

It is 15' or so long and has many branches off of it. Some have healed over.
I don't know what I'll get. Or how many I will get.

I'm going to cut the bottom 8' off to cut up for another customer to some 6/4 thick pieces.

We did see a piece of metal in the bottom piece, already. Hopefully there won't be much more.

I'm going to cut the leftover 7' 6" piece into 3" thick planks and see what I get, with a thin one through the center to hopefully capture all the pith/heart of the tree. So that, as you have mentioned, no heart/pith in the gun stock blanks.

I'll also save any "round edge" pieces for large table top blanks.

I recently saw this one:











And thought it I may try and make something like this top to be available for sale.

I will photograph my progress and will post some snapshots as I go along.

Jim Rogers


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## Jim_Rogers

*Which way to cut?*

Ok, so I have this walnut log:










And as you can see it has some healed over nubs and some branches coming off of it. And from this view, it looks like a seam on the right side near the upper branch.

Here is one of the top views, that is looking down from the top of the log:










Here it is from the other side:










As you can see from this side of the top end it has some holes in it and it maybe rotten down the middle.

The butt does show some rot/holes as well.

Also, along one side:










There is a hook or large nail showing. My red lumber crayon is pointing to it.

I have a customer who may buy some of the butt end. I want to cut it off at 8' 6" long so that I can mill up some 4/4 and 6/4 pieces for this customer. And save the top section some 7 or 7' 6" long for milling up some 3" thick planks for table tops and gun stock blanks.

If I cut it at 8' 6" long the cut will be here:










At the red lines, and lumber crayon again.

This will mean that not much log will be left near the lower "healed" over branch nub. I would think that this healed over nub would be somewhat rotten as well. But I can't say for sure.

That leaves me with two choices of which way to saw the top portion of the log:










So do I saw it flat as the red line shows to get the most I can out of the top crotch?

Or do I turn it 90° and cut it on the blue line to try and get some from the top side branch and the healed over branch?

I don't know what I should do.

Any suggestions?

I think I will be able to tell more about the large healed over branch nub once I cut the log to 8' 6" but I can't be sure.

What do you all think I should do?

Thanks for your comments in advance.

Jim Rogers


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## HomeBody

That log sure is busy. I've never milled any with that many crotches/side branches going everywhere so can't give any advice. I'll bet there is some pretty wood in there somewhere though. Gary


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## Tom the Sawyer

*Which way to cut?*

Jim,

Do you know someone who turns? That looks more like a turner's gold mine rather than a saw log. :yes: 
I would normally turn it to orient the best looking crotch but that one on the end is likely have a lot of decay. You might get some interesting patterns as you get close to the pith, or you might evict the bugs. :icon_cry:
Consider bucking it into shorter lengths (4'), whatever your mill can handle, and align each one for the best figure. :thumbsup:


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## Jim_Rogers

Thanks for your time to view it, and reply.
I'll consider anything, to sell it.

Jim Rogers


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## HomeBody

Here's my latest walnut crotch milling attempt. Bugs got there before I did! They were still in there too. Cream colored worms about an inch long. Oh well...good supply of pen blanks and toothpicks with this crotch.:laughing: Gary


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## scsmith42

It looks like they got there before the tree was felled. Bummer...


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