# Random orbital sander advice



## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2020)

Hi all, I have a Skil ROS with a pressure sensor that I really like. The problem is that the velcro backing pad lasts all of 5 minutes so the sanding discs do not remain attached. I use dust extraction, do not apply excessive pressure, keep the sander flat, etc. (all behavioral things to keep the sander cool and not melt down the velcro backing), but they still wear down after a couple of weeks of light - medium sanding. I have bought OEM and generic replacements of all kinds to deal with this. They all seem to be terrible. So I'm thinking of moving to heavy duty industrial velcro that I can cut and adhere to a ground down backing pad. Has anyone used this technique with any success? If so, what do you use for glue / bonding between the velcro and pad? Thank you!


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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

I don't see how but maybe it is the sandpaper? I have worn them out but never anywhere near that fast.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Is the glue holding the velcro to the sander breaking down, or is the velcro itself melting?

If the glue is failing, I would bet the issue is how you attached the velcro pad. With how cheap most ROS's are, I might just buy a new one. 

If the velcro is melting, then you are generating too much heat with excess pressure, speed or dull paper.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2020)

Thank you, yes, it is the velcro that is melting, which means too much heat. However, I'm doing everything I can to reduce heat (not running the sander for too long, changing out the sanding discs after about 15 - 20 minutes, not tipping the sander, using minimal pressure, using vacuum, etc., etc.) and still the velcro is lasting only 2 or 3 uses until it is entirely useless. I just ordered a brand new OEM pad that showed up today, and it is almost smooth, not at all like the one that came with the original sander. This is why I was thinking to order extra strength velcro, cut it to the size of the sander, and use that instead. I have seen this done on Youtube, but I was wondering what adhesive people use for this.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

You might look at a better quality sander. 😊


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Thank you, yes, it is the velcro that is melting, which means too much heat. However, I'm doing everything I can to reduce heat (not running the sander for too long, changing out the sanding discs after about 15 - 20 minutes, not tipping the sander, using minimal pressure, using vacuum, etc., etc.) and still the velcro is lasting only 2 or 3 uses until it is entirely useless. I just ordered a brand new OEM pad that showed up today, and it is almost smooth, not at all like the one that came with the original sander. This is why I was thinking to order extra strength velcro, cut it to the size of the sander, and use that instead. I have seen this done on Youtube, but I was wondering what adhesive people use for this.


What sandpaper you using?


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2020)

This last use was a combination of gator and powertec papers for some windowsills that didn't require a lot of sanding 120, 180, 240, 320.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

What state are you located.?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

step up to a better quality of sandpaper disc.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Hi all, I have a Skil ROS with a pressure sensor that I really like. The problem is that the velcro backing pad lasts all of 5 minutes so the sanding discs do not remain attached. I use dust extraction, do not apply excessive pressure, keep the sander flat, etc. (all behavioral things to keep the sander cool and not melt down the velcro backing), but they still wear down after a couple of weeks of light - medium sanding. I have bought OEM and generic replacements of all kinds to deal with this. They all seem to be terrible. So I'm thinking of moving to heavy duty industrial velcro that I can cut and adhere to a ground down backing pad. Has anyone used this technique with any success? If so, what do you use for glue / bonding between the velcro and pad? Thank you!


The next time the Velcro backing comes off try putting it back on with contact cement. You could also use spray adhesive but contact cement would probably stay longer.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Probably just bad /cheap discs..


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Hi all, I have a Skil ROS with a pressure sensor that I really like. The problem is that the velcro backing pad lasts all of 5 minutes so the sanding discs do not remain attached. I use dust extraction, do not apply excessive pressure, keep the sander flat, etc. (all behavioral things to keep the sander cool and not melt down the velcro backing), but they still wear down after a couple of weeks of light - medium sanding. I have bought OEM and generic replacements of all kinds to deal with this. They all seem to be terrible. So I'm thinking of moving to heavy duty industrial velcro that I can cut and adhere to a ground down backing pad. Has anyone used this technique with any success? If so, what do you use for glue / bonding between the velcro and pad? Thank you!


My question is what are you sanding that you sand so much? I hear this often about sanding and I do very little of it. My sanding usually consists of a few light passes with 120 to remove any small machine marks followed by a few passes with 220. My final is 220 on a rubber block or by hand lightly in the direction of the grain. If you are sanding so much you are wearing out your velcro, you might want to evaluate what you are doing prior to sanding that is causing you to require so much sanding.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I've sanded pretty heavy with an electric ROS or pneumatic. Reason I'm was curious about paper.


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## laldog3 (Mar 20, 2011)

Didn't watch the whole thing, but this gentleman seems to be singing your song:






Also, you could try an_* interface pad.*_ Cheaper than replacing the whole sander


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

Rebelwork said:


> Probably just bad /cheap discs..


I stopped using sandpaper for random orbit sanding years ago, switching to Abranet. No finishing issues, consistent, and although they cost more, they last forever.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

B Coll said:


> I stopped using sandpaper for random orbit sanding years ago, switching to Abranet. No finishing issues, consistent, and although they cost more, they last forever.


We stopped using it because we needed as many bandaids as sanding discs

Surfprep,VSM,Klingspor, Mirka all good brands, just depend on how much you want spend. 

Personally I'm a VSM guy...


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## laldog3 (Mar 20, 2011)

Rebelwork said:


> We stopped using it because we needed as many bandaids as sanding discs
> 
> Surfprep,VSM,Klingspor, Mirka all good brands, just depend on how much you want spend.
> 
> Personally I'm a VSM guy...


I'm curious by what you mean about bandaids.
Between woodworking and auto body work, I do _*a lot*_ of sanding, so I've been thinking about switching to Abranet.
Is there a connection between bandaids and Abranet?

While we're on the subject, why VSM and do the sell wet/dry paper?

Thanks in advance


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Vsm only sells to account holders. You can apply. VSM does not sell to the public.

We/I found Abranet while sanding excellent was very sharp and cuts fingers, shirts, pants, etc and anything its edges make contact with.

Surfprep was an excellent long lasting brsnd. Discs were good, but the sanding belts were excellent..really liked the belts..

You can find some Surfprep discs on Ebay . Not too bad priced..


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Tip of the Day!
Use a rough enough grit to start with!
You will build up excess heat by trying to sand away paint or deep gouges with too fine a grit.
Start with 60 grit or 50 if you need to. Paint on window sills will be ages old, tough and deeply imbedded, so deal with it correctly out of the gate.
I have a bunch of 36 grit discs for really tough jobs, then all the progressively finer grits to 320.

OK, I have a slight confession to make.
I probably own around 10 ROS from Dewalts, Porter Cables, a Black and Decker, a Skil, and most recently Hyper Tuff from Walmart where they were on sale for about $16.00 each so I bought 6 of them. I actually got 3 of the wrong model accidently and instead of returning them, I just picked up 3 of the correct ones, the dusts collection ports were the wrong shape. I put 3 different grits on 3 of them, coarse, medium and fine, so that I don't need to keep changing the discs in the middle of a project! At $16.00 per sander it's still cheaper than buying a single brand name sander. I mentioned dust ports because they are critical! If your lightest shop vac hose will not easily attach toyour TOS thenthere will be a huge dust issue. A round hose didn't attach to a square port, in my case.
However, they are no longer on sale at Walmart, but still fairly cheap:


https://www.walmart.com/ip/HyperTough-2-5-Amp-Orbital-Sander-5-Inch-Corded-AQ20036G/787255254





hyper tough 2.4amp random orbit sander - Google Search


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## laldog3 (Mar 20, 2011)

Rebelwork said:


> Vsm only sells to account holders. You can apply. VSM does not sell to the public.
> 
> We/I found Abranet while sanding excellent was very sharp and cuts fingers, shirts, pants, etc and anything its edges make contact with.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this.


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## Kenh3497 (Jun 5, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> Tip of the Day!
> Use a rough enough grit to start with!
> You will build up excess heat by trying to sand away paint or deep gouges with too fine a grit.
> Start with 60 grit or 50 if you need to. Paint on window sills will be ages old, tough and deeply imbedded, so deal with it correctly out of the gate.
> ...


Sooooo, any report on the durability of the Walmart brand? Or at least a first impression. I've been considering a RO sander. Thanks! 

Ken


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

laldog3 said:


> Thanks for this.


Likely depends on the grit you are using. I have nothing heavier than 120. Ben using Abranet for probably 20 years and never have come close to getting a cut. COuld be different for what they are using, or the positions they are getting into, in the auto body industry. I find the disks to be very consistent. I have even used them wet sanding wood finishes, as well as to clean my machine tops if they get real bad.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Kenh3497 said:


> Sooooo, any report on the durability of the Walmart brand? Or at least a first impression. I've been considering a RO sander. Thanks!
> 
> Ken


So far so good. But by alternating among 3 different sanders, each one only get's 1/3 of the use. 
My amount sanding as gone down since I got all those and because of the cold weather. I have some projects in mind for spring, so we'll see then.
I still think even at $25.00 each it's a good deal, not only for saving time but for longevity.
I'm more likely to wear out a pad than burn up a motor.
Having good dust collection will also help in keeping the motor working longer.


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## Tfeni52355 (Aug 7, 2020)

I use Diablo SandNet discs. Love them. I have a 10 year old DeWalt ROS and have had to replace the OEM pad one time in ten years. The Diablo discs come with an intermediate pad between the OEM pad and the SandNet disc. I won't use anything else.

As one gentlemen said I do try and limit the amount of sanding that I do by taking advantage of well maintained blades in my saws, planer and jointer. I usually end up using some 120 or 180 for first pass and a little 220 for the final. Keeping the sanding to a minimum if possible


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2020)

Steve Neul said:


> The next time the Velcro backing comes off try putting it back on with contact cement. You could also use spray adhesive but contact cement would probably stay longer.


Thank you, I will give contact cement a try!


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Amazing how many "buy a better sander" comments there are here. I used a Skill ROS for 15 years before I murdered the poor thing sanding drywall with no dust extraction.

Mind you, the only brand ROSs I have had issues with are Makita and Black and Decker, and I have run the gamut. My favorite and haters can stuff their opinions, is my current Ryobi green ROS. Nice and smooth.

But I digress.

Is the adhesive that bonds the velcro on to the pad melting off or is it the little hook thingies on the velcro that is melting?

As others have said, you seem to have a heat problem. Changing pads out every 15 minutes seems excessive but I use those rubber sanding media cleaners frequently...

I would tend to think something is off on your method. But what?

I only apply light pressure when sanding. If you are slowing the sander down at all, you are pushing too hard, and generating too much heat. Basically just have enough pressure to keep the sander from running away from you.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Tfeni52355 said:


> As one gentlemen said I do try and limit the amount of sanding that I do by taking advantage of well maintained blades in my saws, planer and jointer. I usually end up using some 120 or 180 for first pass and a little 220 for the final. Keeping the sanding to a minimum if possible


I don't use expensive discs, or intermediate pads, although I do really like Diablo discs for sure. 

You mention something here very important though. For an ROS you should not be using it for shaping, but rather for finishing. Sharp bits, and blades, followed up with a quality scraper, to get everything as clean as possible, and THEN use an ROS.

I think my perspective comees from the fact what when I grew up a Random Orbit Sander was referred to as a "finish sander", and while I do run coarse grits for drywall work, but woodworking I don't use any grits below 120.

If you are going for material removal, use a belt and / or spindle sander.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2020)

dbhost said:


> Amazing how many "buy a better sander" comments there are here. I used a Skill ROS for 15 years before I murdered the poor thing sanding drywall with no dust extraction.
> 
> Mind you, the only brand ROSs I have had issues with are Makita and Black and Decker, and I have run the gamut. My favorite and haters can stuff their opinions, is my current Ryobi green ROS. Nice and smooth.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your comments. Yes, I'm not quite sure what components of a "better sander" would make melting of the little plastic velcro thingies any better?? If someone can explain what makes a certain sander "better" in this regard, then I'm all ears. And to your question, yes, it is the plastic hooks on the velcro that are melting and not the velcro backing glue.
I agree that all the feedback has been regarding technique and minimizing heat build up; however, I am changing out pads very frequently, not tipping the sander, keeping it moving, using vacuum dust extraction, and not pressing hard. The Skil sander I have has a pressure sensor on it, and I make sure that I'm using the lowest pressure point. The only thing I can think of is if there is a type of cushioning pad that can be added to create more space between the sander body and the backing pad so that air can flow more between these pieces in order to keep the velcro pad a bit cooler?? Or is there such a thing as industrial, non-plastic velcro??


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

dbhost said:


> Amazing how many "buy a better sander" comments there are here. I used a Skill ROS for 15 years before I murdered the poor thing sanding drywall with no dust extraction.
> 
> Mind you, the only brand ROSs I have had issues with are Makita and Black and Decker, and I have run the gamut. My favorite and haters can stuff their opinions, is my current Ryobi green ROS. Nice and smooth.
> 
> ...


Porter cable was the sanding ROS for about 20 years. Now many are using Dewalt because they can buy them anymore..
Discs and sander combinations are a must for quality sanding.

I still have PC332-333 sanders..

I wax trying to buy some on Ebay, but there becoming as much used as they sold for new. I've seen a Dewalt 5" ROS at the pawn shop, but my lack of knowledge with the Dewalt makes me pause with the purchase...

I called the pawn shop on the dewalt. $20. I'll pick it up later later and give it a try...


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Even cheap Sanders don't wear out after 10minutes. You don't need a better brand you need one that doesn't have the problem your sander does.

If this isn't user error, then I would chuck the sander and buy a replacement instead of trying to repair a $20-40 tool.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Multipe answers to give. Trying to delete this post so I can do a multi quote. Sorry...


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

BigCountry79 said:


> Even cheap Sanders don't wear out after 10minutes. You don't need a better brand you need one that doesn't have the problem your sander does.
> 
> If this isn't user error, then I would chuck the sander and buy a replacement instead of trying to repair a $20-40 tool.


It seems like we have run down the gamut of technique issues. However I would think if something internal to the sander was getting hot enough to melt the hooks on the hook and loop fastener, the user should feel it in their hands. But then again, maybe not. However that is the direction I am thinking... Just chuck it and start over with a different sander.



Rebelwork said:


> Porter cable was the sanding ROS for about 20 years. Now many are using Dewalt because they can buy them anymore..
> Discs and sander combinations are a must for quality sanding.
> 
> I still have PC332-333 sanders..
> ...


The last Porter Cables I saw regularly on a shelf were at a local Ace Hardware store 20 years or so ago... I thought they went out of business. I guess they just changed up their marketing channels. I guess since New Yankee Workshop isn't braggintg them as a sponsor these days they had to switch it up.

I see Rockler carries PC random orbit sanders and for not a lot more than my Ryobi went for. Might be worth a trip if you have a Rockler somewhere close by...

Back to the issue at hand. To melt the hooks, you are getting excessive heat to the hooks from somewhere. The loop side of velcro is actually more prone to melting / damage than the hook as it is basically just fuzz and on the sanding disk itself, So and I may be off my noodle for thinking this here, but if the heat were being generated by technique and being built up on the disk / passed through, I would expect to see damage to the disk itself first. Are you seeing that?

If not, potentially bearings for example that are not done right, can and will generate excessive heat, and if it is close to the pad assembly via condution the heat would pass through the pad to the hooks and melt them as they are in contact first, 

I would think that air coming out of the sanders vents, if that were the case, would be hot. 

Anyway, I am probably blowing some of my own hot air right now. But double check that stuff, and maybe consider a different sander. Because I for one at least, have never had anything like that happen, and I have been through a few sanders.

I'm not trashing the Skil sander, I have had them and they died due to some serious abuse. Honestly the only brand I have a bias against due to poor quality is Black and Decker. There are others out there, minor no name import junk, but generally speaking well known brand names at least try to put out a reasonable product. But every now and again a dud goes out the door.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I can't speak for the newer PC sanders, only the 332 or 333. I'm a sticky back kinda guy on a ROS and used 3 sanders. Now that I'm not building cabinets , I only need H&L....


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2020)

dbhost said:


> if the heat were being generated by technique and being built up on the disk / passed through, I would expect to see damage to the disk itself first. Are you seeing that?
> 
> If not, potentially bearings for example that are not done right, can and will generate excessive heat, and if it is close to the pad assembly via condution the heat would pass through the pad to the hooks and melt them as they are in contact first,
> 
> I would think that air coming out of the sanders vents, if that were the case, would be hot.


The loop side of the sanding disk is not damaged at all (in fact, they are almost pristine as I'm changing them out so frequently). The air coming out of the sander vents is quite warm so you may be onto something here with the bearings. Sadly, maybe it is time for a new sander


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> The loop side of the sanding disk is not damaged at all (in fact, they are almost pristine as I'm changing them out so frequently). The air coming out of the sander vents is quite warm so you may be onto something here with the bearings. Sadly, maybe it is time for a new sander


It happens on rare occasion, but sometimes I get lucky and get it right...

Seriously though. I'm not sure about the Porter Cables, I know the old ones were quite good, but I honestly thought they went out of business. The Porter Cable 382 runs for $52.99 at my local Rockler, and I like that it at least appears to have a 2.5" shop vac dust collection connection built in, just slide the hose on instead of the bag at least that is what it looks like from the pics...That actually puts the Porter Cable at $7.00 cheaper than my model Ryobi is selling for at Home Depot. 

Might be worth a shot....


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Like I said, I don't know the newer PC sanders. When I went into comercial around 2003 and the furniture company right after we didn't use them in commercial and at the furniture company we used Pneumatic, so I lost touch with current sanders.

But I will say this. If I walk into a so called pro shop looking for work and I see SKIL, Craftsman or Ryobi tools,I turn right around and walk back out or ill slowly kick it in the path of a forkllift.😈😈😈😈..


You want them in your hobby shop that's just fine with me...


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## Rev. A (Jan 29, 2021)

If you're sanding that much you're doing it the hard way. I use a thickness planer often. Don't sand to remove large amounts of paint, us stripper and plastic putty knife. 
If you can afford good hand planes, sadly i can't. they also work great - watch Bob Crossman's videos on You Tube.


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