# Brush on Poly vs. Arm-R-Seal wipe on



## bassett72 (Jan 29, 2018)

I'm wondering the following between the 2:
Which is easier to apply?
Which produces better looking results?
Which is provides a harder, more durable surface?

I previously did mantle and had many issues with bubble in the poly and didn't know what to do with the final coat to get the bubbles out. I didn't want to sand it as I didn't want it to look cloudy like the previous coats.

Then, I saw a few videos on using ARM-R-Seal wipe on, oil based. Seemed to be easier to work with, but wanted to check with the experts here to see what the answers are to the above questions and any other pros and cons are before I start my next project.

Thanks...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The mantle, I just think there was something wrong with the finish or you applied it too thick. Chances are if you started over you wouldn't have any of the problems again. 

The Arm-R-Seal is probably longer lasting. It isn't as hard of a finish as polyurethane so would be better suited to deal with normal wood movement. The Arm-R-Seal is also probably more likely to show damage from abuse. If your family is particularly hard on furniture you are probably better off with poly.


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## bassett72 (Jan 29, 2018)

So how do I get the bubbles out of the final coat? Also, I used a poly a local paint store makes. Maybe that is the issue? What brand would you recommend? I can't say my family is hard on things, so that isn't an issue. But, I do hate getting scuffs in furniture


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## Sawdustguy (Dec 30, 2008)

Arm-R-Seal is a urethane finish and is as hard and any brush on urethane. It does require more coats because it is thinner than a brush on urethane.

Check the generalfinishes.com website.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bassett72 said:


> So how do I get the bubbles out of the final coat? Also, I used a poly a local paint store makes. Maybe that is the issue? What brand would you recommend? I can't say my family is hard on things, so that isn't an issue. But, I do hate getting scuffs in furniture


Bubbles are close to the surface. When you sand the finish you end up taking the top of the bubble off creating holes. Then depending on how big and deep the holes are more coats of finish will fill the holes and the sanding between coats levels the surface. Sometimes you have to get very aggressive with the sanding just almost sanding the finish off. 

Before doing this though you need to work out the problem with the finish creating bubbles so you don't make more bubbles trying to fix it. You probably needed to thin the poly more.


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

As Steve implied, your problem may be due to application technique. Are you applying the finish with a brush? Is it a natural bristle brush? It should be. Are you dragging the brush on the edge of the can to get the excess off before you brush it on? Don't, that can introduce air into the brush and make bubbles more prominent. Touch the tips of the brush to the inside of the can to drain off the excess finish. Are you "tipping off" the application after covering the surface? This involves lightly dragging the empty tips of the brush through the application to pop any bubbles that were left there by the application. I find that the thinner the finish is, the less chance of getting bubbles in there in the first place.


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## bassett72 (Jan 29, 2018)

I don't drag the brush, I do have a medium quality natural bristle brush and I do tip off one full length of the project.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bassett72 said:


> I don't drag the brush, I do have a medium quality natural bristle brush and I do tip off one full length of the project.


It's difficult to describe brushing a finish. It's something best to be there and see. I prefer to use a bristle brush rather than a foam brush. I apply a varnish as thin as I can with as few strokes as possible. The more you brush a finish causes it to get more air in the finish and that makes it set up prematurely. Normally this just makes the brush marks show more but if the finish isn't thinned enough I can see it causing bubbles. There is also the possibility the can of finish has set on the store shelf so long that it's just old. I've had to take an old finish before and add thinner to it and then strain it because it was a bit curdled.


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

I work from left to right as it's natural as I'm right handed and brush in one direction only. I also don't brush by bending the bristles much as that can introduče air into the brush and then into the fiinish. In other words, don't overwork the application. As Steve stated, try thinning the poly a bit môre. I usually thin it 10% to 20% out of the can.


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## bassett72 (Jan 29, 2018)

OK, a few questions. Starting with my main 3 in the OP. Then, if Poly is the way to go (from what I'm understanding), then what products do you recommend, what is the ratio to thin it, and are there reasonably priced brushes you would recommend that I can either get at a local store or online? I figure I might as well start over and get ride of the brush. Also, because I'll probably be spending more on a brush, what is your process for cleaning and care from a brush?

THanks...

I'm currently using a Wooster brush that was recommended by my local paint store.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bassett72 said:


> OK, a few questions. Starting with my main 3 in the OP. Then, if Poly is the way to go (from what I'm understanding), then what products do you recommend, what is the ratio to thin it, and are there reasonably priced brushes you would recommend that I can either get at a local store or online? I figure I might as well start over and get ride of the brush. Also, because I'll probably be spending more on a brush, what is your process for cleaning and care from a brush?
> 
> THanks...
> 
> I'm currently using a Wooster brush that was recommended by my local paint store.


I don't buy expensive brushes, largely because I have the habit of leaving the finish on the brush for a couple weeks before I can find the time to clean them. Then I have to get so aggressive with solvents they end up pretty fuzzy by the time they are usable again. They are getting better at making better cheap brushes anyway. 

I think the Wooster brush you are using would be fine. 

It's really easier to over thin varnish than to use it too thick. Each brand is different so I can't give you a formula. When you brush it and it feels like you are spreading glue where it's pulling on the brush then it's too thick. A varnish should be more the consistency of motor oil. It's thick enough to hang on the brush but not so thick that is drags when you apply it. When varnish is too thin it makes it take a lot longer to dry and it tends to screw up the sheen making the sheen blotchy on the last coat. Then on vertical surfaces you practically can't keep it from running. 

As far as the bubbles that is usually caused by overzealous stirring or the finish was too thick.


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