# Picture frame measurements.



## ASB1583 (Mar 1, 2014)

Not sure if picture framing is considered joinery and if it's not I'll delete and repost where appropriate. If this is the correct sub forum well here it is. I have been googling my fingers and eyes out with no luck. How can you precisely measure your miter cuts for a specific picture size with compensation for the rabbit where he picture goes? I may be overthinking this but I am assuming there are different measurement based on lumber size but I'm wondering if there is any easy formula to follow to make it less measurement tedious. 

Anyone have any advise?

Adam

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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*simple math?*

If your rabbet is 3/8" deep, your picture is 10 long, the molding is 2" wide, then ... subtracting .... 2" - 3/8" = 1 5/8" on each side.
so you must add 2 ( 1 5/8") to your picture length to get your total frame outside dimension.
That would be 10" + 3 1/4" or 13 1/4" OAL
Unless I messed up somewhere? :blink: :boat:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

The back edge of the rabbet will be the length you need to fit the photo, glass, etc.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

FrankC said:


> The back edge of the rabbet will be the length you need to fit the photo, glass, etc.


Very nice clear explanation/picture.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*yes, but of course*



FrankC said:


> The back edge of the rabbet will be the length you need to fit the photo, glass, etc.





GeorgeC said:


> Very nice clear explanation/picture.
> 
> George


How do you know what the overall length is? The length of the photo is a given, but the length of the frame is the unknown, and is what the OP is seeking to "calculate" JMO.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I measure them more like Frank does. If the canvas is 20" long I want the opening 20 1/8" for a little wiggle room which would be Frank's required length. Then if the rabbet is 3/8" wide the inside corner of the molding would be 19 3/8" which would be 3/4" less than the required length.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The way I do it is to use the outside dimension of the item that fits into the rabbet, and allow a small amount of overage to allow for placement/removal, in consideration for expansion and contraction. 

In both directions (L and W) add the size of the inserted item (+/- 1/16") that fits against the rabbet, and the width of the rest of the frame (times 2), for the overall length and width. Opposite sides should be cut (mitered) for the exact same length. If the miters aren't 45°, or one of the sides are different than the other, the miters will not close up.

If you have doubts about the overall dimension, draw it out on brown/white wrapping paper (available on a roll) in full size. When your parts are cut, they should fit right on the drawing.








 








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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

ASB1583 said:


> I'm wondering if there is any easy formula to follow to make it less measurement tedious.
> 
> Anyone have any advise?
> 
> Adam


Hi Adam - for an easy formula it boils down to stock width minus rabbet width times 2. Add that to each dimension of the picture, L and W. As noted, it doesn't hurt to add a little wiggle room.:smile:


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

I made a picture frame tutorial thread a while back. You can find it here.

On page 4 of the tutorial, is a 4 part video series from my youtube channel showing how to make picture frames and gives a pretty good method of how to measure for your mitres taking the rabbets into consideration.
The other guys explanations were spot on as well, but if you are a visual guy, the videos and thread might help you out.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> How do you know what the overall length is? The length of the photo is a given, but the length of the frame is the unknown, and is what the OP is seeking to "calculate" JMO.


The length of the frame, either width or length, is whatever the poster wants it to be. It is all dependent upon the width of the frame pieces and what makes for a correlated appearance.

The only thing that has to be calculated is the rabbit. That is what was present be Frank. The poster must decide the overall size the frame must be to look like he/she wants and then decide what the finished rabbit measurements will be. He/she must account for any matting besides the actual item to be framed.

George


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GeorgeC said:


> The length of the frame, either width or length, is whatever the poster wants it to be. It is all dependent upon the width of the frame pieces and what makes for a correlated appearance.
> 
> The only thing that has to be calculated is the rabbit. That is what was present be Frank. The poster must decide the overall size the frame must be to look like he/she wants and then decide what the finished rabbit measurements will be. He/she must account for any matting besides the actual item to be framed.
> 
> George


All woodenthings is doing is measuring from the edge of the rabbet to the outside edge of the frame and adding it to the picture size. The way he is doing it, it wouldn't matter what size the rabbet is. I just got in the habit of measuring the inside because the picture frame molding I was using came from different lots and the size varied a little.


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## ASB1583 (Mar 1, 2014)

Kenbo said:


> I made a picture frame tutorial thread a while back. You can find it here. On page 4 of the tutorial, is a 4 part video series from my youtube channel showing how to make picture frames and gives a pretty good method of how to measure for your mitres taking the rabbets into consideration. The other guys explanations were spot on as well, but if you are a visual guy, the videos and thread might help you out.


Thank you Kenbo. That is exactly what I am looking for. Not exactly a quick formula but after I read/watch this a couple times I will have it down to a science. 

Adam

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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

Glad I could help. 


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it ain't quite this simple...*



GeorgeC said:


> The length of the frame, either width or length, is whatever the poster wants it to be. It is all dependent upon the width of the frame pieces and what makes for a correlated appearance.
> 
> *The only thing that has to be calculated is the rabbit*. That is what was present be Frank. The poster must decide the overall size the frame must be to look like he/she wants and then decide what the finished rabbit measurements will be. He/she must account for any matting besides the actual item to be framed.
> 
> George


Different types of media have different relationships of image to frame. For example, photos can have a mat border or just the white border on the photo. Watercolors usually have a mat border. Posters may or may not be matted. Prints may or may not be matted. Oil paintings have a stretcher frame behind the canvas. Etc, Etc.

The rabbet will be a different width/depth depending on the subject to be framed and how much mat or image exposure is desirable. This is not an arbitrary dimension, rather a matter of what is functionally appropriate. The frame stock width is the variable in the equation in my opinion. Frames come in all manner of widths and materials, so the relief from the rabbet will vary within a range, but it will not be arbitrarily 2" or some other amount.

The overall size of the frame will depend on the subject matter, whether there is a mat border, the amount of relief in the rabbet, and the width of the framing material.


To clarify my earlier formula: 
2 X (molding width (-) rabbet) + photo length = OAL


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The overall dimensions of the frame depends on the panel used, and how much frame is beyond the edge of the rabbet. What is being framed can be set up for a rabbet by how it's done. If the visual edge of the poster, or picture is finished all the way to the edge, or has a frame of it's own, it might be able to be mounted from the front into a rabbet. If the edge needs to be obscured the rabbet can be cut into the back of the frame as deep and wide as needed.








 








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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

There is an old formula nearly as old as Methuselah and it's probably been said here in nearly every reply in some way or every way possible. It was taught to me when rote memory was an OK thing and I suppose I'll take it to my grave.

I goes something like this.

The length of the molding is the dimension of the picture +2 x the molding width minus 2 x the rabbit width. This does not include any free play so add that 1/8" +/- if you want clearance.


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