# Tale of two chisels...



## JQMack (Sep 24, 2011)

So I've been working more with chisels as of late, including sharpening via the scary sharp method. So using two chisels last night for the same work and observed something surprising, at least to me.

Sharpened both just before using. Used them both on the same mortise, used for about the same time. 1 is 1", the other is 1/2". After use the 1" looked like I had been hitting the blade with the hammer, chipped like I couldn't believe. The 1/2" still looked perfect.

Both are in the same price range (<$10) but the 1" is from the box store while the 1/2" is from the LV catalog.

Is this a difference in quality? Did I sharpen something incorrectly? Something else?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The difference is likely in the steel used, and the tempering.










 







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## Larry Sockwell (Mar 18, 2011)

I gave up on new chisels, that I could afford, and made new handles for my old Stanley chisels. I would suggest purchasing a few dedicated mortising chisels, I prefer Sorby. You won't regret buying them after you use them.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

It's likely the steel quality or hardness as C-man said but it could just as easily be the primary bevel & micro bevel. The lower the primary bevel grind the higher in relation the micro bevel needs to be on a mortice chisel to keep the edge from cracking. 

What are the brands?
Are they "mortice" chisels?

~tom "Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence - it's a lack of know-how"


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## JQMack (Sep 24, 2011)

They are just bench chisels, not mortise chisels. The problem one is a new, cheap Stanley from Lowes. The other is a Narex.

Not sure if it's an issue with the bevels since the chips in the 1" chisel are big enough that they are taking pieces of the primary bevel.


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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

If you multi-bevel sharpening and are chipping it back into the primary bevel - then you need to look real hard at what you are hammering away on.... Are you hitting nails or something real hard or abrasive? What angles are you using for sharpening? I would move up to a steeper angle on the bevels for your sharpening - say 30 primary and 35 secondary...

There are lots of different steels and heat treat methods... You will find that different types of chisels have different types of heat treat... Paring type chisels tend to be much harder and more brittle... Mortise chisels tend to be softer, but take will take one heck of a beating before they chip... Bench chisels can be anywhere in the middle....

One last thing.. China Box store chisels can have variable heat treating... One can be soft and mushy and the next glass hard.... Sometimes, they come in with a super hard face on top of a more standard hardness core.. and when you sharpen them 1/16" back - all is well....

You could always get out the torch and re-temper the tip of your chisel if you are worried about it being too hard....

Thanks


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Let's also take this opportunity to talk technique. Are drilling the waste first?

Are you trying to lever out large deep chunks with the edge of the chisel?

A chisels can't just be driven down in to wood obviously. If you make short angled cuts (like axe felling a tree) from either direction you will quickly remover material. Try not to be over anxious and try to remove too much material in one stroke, it will actually take longer this way.

I like the Narrex chisels but have broken the edge on one of their mortise chisels. What happened was I nicked the edge in some brutal white oak on a deep 1/2" mortice... After the edge broke off the piece remaining in the morticed destroyed the remainder of the bevel when struck against it with a mallet. This could also have happened to you... One little chip leads to bigger and bigger ones. I included pictures of that too. 

I spend more time flattening, polishing, easing and on micro bevels these days and that seems to yield longer lasting heavy abuse tools.

~tom "Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence - it's a lack of know-how"


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## JQMack (Sep 24, 2011)

Definitely developing the technique so that may be part of the issue, but using the chisels in the same way so the results are surprising.

Drilling out waste when possible, hand saw to cut remove material where possible. Removing small slices/pieces slowly, not driving the chisel in like a wedge. And trying to remember not to use it as a lever.

Any other advice for the proper use of chisels? Any good resources?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

*videos... eh???*



JQMack said:


> Any other advice for the proper use of chisels? Any good resources?


I'm not an authority on this. A little time on Youtube reminded me how many morons post videos with improper direction and bad technique. Those who can, do... and well the rest make videos I guess.:blink:

I watched the first 6 that came up and didn't make it past half way. Maybe I'm persnickety or just plain do it wrong but if you have patience I'll make you a vid on what I do. REALLY solid with work right now though. You want drill first or no drill?... then again I guess I could do both.

I hope I don't regret promising this, lol It will be a few weeks and I'll probably need to be reminded.:yes:


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## JQMack (Sep 24, 2011)

That would be great, and I'm sure you have time. I bet having that little one around doesn't take up any time at all.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

JQ, Lie Nielson has some good videos on YouTube. Primarily promoting their tools but also demo proper chisel technique.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

sawdustfactory said:


> JQ, Lie Nielson has some good videos on YouTube. Primarily promoting their tools but also demo proper chisel technique.


Sweet! :yes: hope those are good :yes:

~tom "Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence - it's a lack of know-how"


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

firemedic said:


> Sweet! :yes: hope those are good :yes:
> 
> ~tom "Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence - it's a lack of know-how"


They are pretty good, I've watched almost all of them. They are also strangely calming. I don't think anyone yells at Lie Nielsen. You'll know what I mean when you see them. 

I agree with what everyone said. You may have gotten a bad chisel in general, but chopping mortises with bench chisels is tough on em. The micro fractures become fractures become small cracks become chips.... hone often if you are abusing them chopping mortises.


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