# White scratch marks on cabinets



## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

Hey all. New here, but I've read posts before. I did some searching on Google and here (as well as some other forums), but I can't seem to find a solution to this issue...or another issue like it.

My cabinets are knotty alder that has been stained fairly dark. Chocolate color or thereabouts. I'm not sure what type of stain was used or the top coat type. I had the house built about 2.5 years ago.

So, here's the issue. I'm getting white scratch marks very easily all over my cabinets. Finger nails, small bumps, and utensils can scratch the cabinets and leave a white mark. These are not wiping off with water and don't sand off, either. I'm not a finish expert, and truth be told, I'm not even an amateur.

Below is a picture of what I'm talking about. I did that scratch with my fingernail and it didn't take much pressure. Like I said, it won't sand off, either. It's almost like it goes through the top coat, but I'm not sure.

I'd really appreciate some help here...not only recommendations or ideas on getting rid of them, but ways I can prevent it from happening. If that means applying a new top coat to all the cabinets in my house (there sure are a lot of them), then I'm fine with that. Obviously the cheap stuff at Lowe's and Home Depot don't cut it and I know that. But I don't have many specialty stores around here. The nearest Woodcraft, for example, is 2 hours away. I don't mind driving there if I know what I'm looking for.

Anyway, hope you guys can help. Let me know if you need any more pictures.


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## lacman (Mar 13, 2012)

It seems that you might have a failed finish. It is very soft and scratches very easily. I would find out what the painter or wood finisher used. I don't feel that another coat is going to solve the underlying problem. I think it is imperative that you find out what the finish schedule was for your cabinets.


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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

I could ask my builder, but I doubt he'll know. I can say that the company that came in and did the cabinet staining/finishing is no longer in business. So, unfortunately, it'll be pretty hard to find out what the top coat is.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What I expect is that the finish is a nitrocellulose lacquer finish. It is inherently soft and easy to scratch. The first thing I would do is try to determine if it is a lacquer finish. I would find an inconspicuous place like the back side of a drawer front and wet it with lacquer thinner and see if the finish dissolves. If it does, the cabinets can be cleaned off and coated over with catalyzed lacquer. This would be a harder and more durable finish. The scratch marks should dissolve when coated over. It could first be wiped with lacquer thinner to be sure. Just don't rub the spot or you will take the finish off. The idea is just to wet the scratches. Another product which would be more durable is a conversion varnish. If the existing finish does anything other than dissolve than no lacquer product should be used. If it has a varnish type finish the finish will wrinkle up and lift as if you put paint and varnish remover on it. To topcoat over that you could use polyurethane. Some of these products are available in water based. I wouldn’t recommend water based products for a recoat.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

My guess it isn't lacquer, and possibly not a film finish. I'm thinking that a film finish wouldn't be subjective to a fingernail as you described. Could you show a picture with more of a perspective. IOW not as much of a close up. I would like to see more of the cabinetwork, and where the scratches appear.













 







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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

Alright, I'll snap some picture pictures tomorrow and post.


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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

Here are the pictures. I really appreciate the feedback.

The flash does make these look a little worse than I thought they looked...and they could use a cleaning. But it is what it is.










Close up of the previous picture where the worst is above the drawer here.









Here's one of the bad scratches.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Myriad_Rocker said:


> Here are the pictures. I really appreciate the feedback.
> 
> The flash does make these look a little worse than I thought they looked...and they could use a cleaning. But it is what it is.
> 
> ...


It still looks like a film finish to me. If you don't want to get involved in recoating the cabinets you can help the marks with touch up markers and old english scratch cover for dark wood. The scratches would still be there, just darkened.


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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> It still looks like a film finish to me. If you don't want to get involved in recoating the cabinets you can help the marks with touch up markers and old english scratch cover for dark wood. The scratches would still be there, just darkened.


I don't mind recoating the cabinets at all. However, I want that new top coat to be HARD as a rock.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm not sure about the finish but that is a great example of stain blotchiness. :blink:

I am not sure what your budget is but I think I would replace the doors and drawer fronts with new ones and strip and refinish the face frames and finished ends. There are many companies where you can buy replacement doors and drawer fronts if you can't make them yourself. As far as a "rock hard" finish, anything you put over a soft finish will only ever be as good as the original finish.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Myriad_Rocker said:


> I don't mind recoating the cabinets at all. However, I want that new top coat to be HARD as a rock.


If the scratches are the only problem and not the blotchiness that Rick pointed out then I would find out if the finish is compatible with lacquer thinner. The next step would be to thoroughly clean the cabinets. Over time the cabinets either have been cleaned with furniture polish or have cooking oils on the surface or both. I use a product called Krud Kutter Gloss Off. It's available at Sherwin Williams and I believe Walmart. Thoroughly wash the cabinets down with that frequently changing rags. If the cabinets are perceived to be extra oily you might go over it twice. Then where the scratches are, wet the scratches with lacquer thinner. The finish at the scratch is frayed and wetting it will melt it back together. Care must be taken not to rub the spot as the thinner can strip the finish and make a light spot. Often I put lacquer thinner in a sprayer and apply it with that so I don't even touch the finish. After you do this the white scratches should pretty much go away. If not it may be necessary to go over it with a dye to color it in before proceeding. The finish on the cabinets will then need a scuff sanding with 220 grit sandpaper or I sometimes use a extra fine Glit sanding pad. Then with a clean dry cloth wipe off the sanding dust and blow the rest off with compressed air. Now the cabinets are ready to mask off and recoat. A better lacquer than what you had would be a catalyzed lacquer. If you're looking for a hard as a rock finish then I would recommend a conversion varnish. Each can be obtained at Sherwin Williams in most states. Sometimes you have to special order it as most stores only stock house paint. A lot depends on if contractors in your area routinely use the product. 

A word of caution, these products are flamable and you need to take extra care working in the house with them. Don't turn the lights on and off. If the lights are on, leave them on. The spark in the switch can ignite it. You could put window fans in the other side of the house blowing in so the fumes exit out of the kitchen outside. I use a fan to exhaust the fumes but it is a spray booth fan with an exposion proof motor. I would not recommend using a box fan to exhaust paint fumes. You might just have to work smaller areas at a time so not to build up too much fumes.


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## 4reel (Mar 3, 2013)

*Wax*

What ever you end up doing be sure to give it a good coat of Finishing wax. Only after it is totally cured. The contractor should have treated the wood so tha the rails an styles wood have matched. If these are fairly new I would press him to restore them.


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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

Rick Mosher said:


> I'm not sure about the finish but that is a great example of stain blotchiness. :blink:
> 
> I am not sure what your budget is but I think I would replace the doors and drawer fronts with new ones and strip and refinish the face frames and finished ends. There are many companies where you can buy replacement doors and drawer fronts if you can't make them yourself. As far as a "rock hard" finish, anything you put over a soft finish will only ever be as good as the original finish.


Well...okay. Thanks, I guess. Not really an option for me. I guess I know what you mean by 'blotchiness', but I'm not sure if that comment was really warranted. I kind of like the inconsistency of the color, personally.


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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

4reel said:


> What ever you end up doing be sure to give it a good coat of Finishing wax. Only after it is totally cured. The contractor should have treated the wood so tha the rails an styles wood have matched. If these are fairly new I would press him to restore them.


They're almost 3 years old and there's no way he would restore them at this point.


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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

Well, I can't find lacquer retarder anywhere. I have two places left to looking...one is a builder supply house (like Lowe's except more for contractors) and another is a specialty paint shop. We'll see.

I bought some things at Lowe's today...Old English scratch cover, mineral spirits, and steel wool 0000. I just tried the Old English on the scratches in my original picture. It lessened them, but it didn't cover them up at all. Once that dries, I may try it again to see if I get any more cover on it. After that, I'm going to try the mineral spirits and steel wool.

Last resort (and probably the long term solution) is to hire out someone to strip the top coat off of the cabinets, touch up the stain and then put a new HARD top coat on. I'm really afraid of how much that's going to cost. Likely north of $3k...ugh. I'd like to kick my builder in the arse...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Myriad_Rocker said:


> Well, I can't find lacquer retarder anywhere. I have two places left to looking...one is a builder supply house (like Lowe's except more for contractors) and another is a specialty paint shop. We'll see.
> 
> I bought some things at Lowe's today...Old English scratch cover, mineral spirits, and steel wool 0000. I just tried the Old English on the scratches in my original picture. It lessened them, but it didn't cover them up at all. Once that dries, I may try it again to see if I get any more cover on it. After that, I'm going to try the mineral spirits and steel wool.
> 
> Last resort (and probably the long term solution) is to hire out someone to strip the top coat off of the cabinets, touch up the stain and then put a new HARD top coat on. I'm really afraid of how much that's going to cost. Likely north of $3k...ugh. I'd like to kick my builder in the arse...


 You might try Sherwin Williams for the retarder thinner. If they don't stock it I bet they can special order some if it's legal in your state.

I still think you could wet the scratch with lacquer thinner and it would melt it away. Just find some out of the way place to test it first. 

As far as touching up the finish, as dark as the woodwork is you could use a sharpie on the stubborn spots. Sometimes you have to rub it with your finger to blend it as you mark it. 

Refinishing work runs different prices in different parts of the country but it shouldn't cost anywhere near $3k to fix. I think the most I've ever charged to completely refinish a kitchen is about $1800.00. With a helper it only takes two days. It can be stripped, sanded and stained in one day and masked off and finished the next day.


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## Myriad_Rocker (Feb 28, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> You might try Sherwin Williams for the retarder thinner. If they don't stock it I bet they can special order some if it's legal in your state.
> 
> I still think you could wet the scratch with lacquer thinner and it would melt it away. Just find some out of the way place to test it first.
> 
> ...


$1800? You're hired!! If you're near me, I'm quite serious. I have a lot of cabinets...

I'll try Sherwin Williams for the retarder. I didn't see any when I was in there, but I'll ask. I did see some lacquer thinner in Lowe's when I was in there getting the mineral spirits today.  I'll try that next.

Oddly, this scratch below pretty much dissappeared when I used the Old English on it. I can still see it when the light hits it at just the right angle, but 99% of the angles I looked at it at...gone.












Guess I'll just keep trying different things until I hit on something. At least until I can find someone I trust to know what they're doing refinish my cabinets.



UPDATE: This Old English scratch cover stuff seems to be taking care of a lot of the issues. Granted, the scratches are still there...you just can't see them. I may be able to live with this and just using the Old English to touch up. For the more stubborn stuff, I can use a bit of the lacquer thinner that Steve suggested.

We'll see if I'm as optimistic after I clean and go over all of the cabinets with this stuff.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Mohawk makes repair products that will fill the scratches and aerosol touch up sprays that will make the repairs disappear. You may be able to hire a touch up man in your area to do the repairs if you aren't comfortable doing them yourself.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)




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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)




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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm in the Dallas area so it would probably be more than a couple days driving time. 

I would contact a furniture refinisher in your area to find out if they would come out and touch up the cabinets. They will often come to a persons house and touch up their furniture. I think all your cabinets need is to be touched up and perhaps recoated with a conversion varnish. The furniture refinisher may not wish to get involved with the recoat but if they could touch it up and recoat the spots you might be able to get a painter to apply the conversion varnish. I would clean the cabinets myself to make sure the painter didn't take any shortcuts. I use Krud Kutter Gloss Off to clean cabinets with frequently changing rags. If someone has frequently used furniture polish on the cabinets you might use a wax and grease remover such as Dupont Prepsol Solvent too, frequently changing rags. Furniture polish contains silicone which makes the new finish fisheye. Fisheye is where the finish doesn't flow out. It kind of beads up making circular indentations in the finish.


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## mbrucedogs (Mar 3, 2015)

So I am having the same issues with my cabinets, what was your final resolution?


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

mbrucedogs said:


> So I am having the same issues with my cabinets, what was your final resolution?


If you check his profile you will see he hasn't posted in two years.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

mbrucedogs said:


> So I am having the same issues with my cabinets, what was your final resolution?


Can you post a picture of the spots on your cabinets? You may have a different situation.


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## mbrucedogs (Mar 3, 2015)

*Cabinet Images*

I have been told by my builder's (Drees Homes) warranty department that Knotty Alder cabinets have this issue. They said these are easy to scratch and nick, which really show up with cabinets that are stained dark, so there is nothing that can be done. Our house is only 1 year old and this isn't horrible, but I can see it getting worse over time. If I ever sell this house I would think this would be a issue that would be noticed by potential buyers.

I am shocked by this response and that a builder would up charge us for these cabinets and not warn us of this situation. I find it hard to believe that I am the only person that has ever had these cabinets stained dark.

Every wood cabinet in our house is of this type/color. We do have handles/knobs on all but there are still situations where touching a cabinet has occurred. 

Images on Dropbox Public Site: 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k4ltdb63sw67y31/AACTk9ZcWEwUWU-I2VQDy1f3a?dl=0


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm sorry but I have to agree with the builder. The scratches are normal wear and tear and just show up more on dark wood. There are a couple of different things you can do. You might get a dark walnut touch up marker and color in the streaks. The scratch will still be there but won't show up very much. Another option would be to actually fix the finish. Find a scratch in a inconspicuous place perhaps the toekick and quickly dab some lacquer thinner on it and see what happens. If it dissolves away the mark and the finish doesn't wrinkle up then the finish is most likely lacquer and you can work with it. The first thing to do is go over everywhere you are going to touch up with Krud Kutter Gloss Off to clean it. Then dab some lacquer thinner on the spots melting them away. By then they get very hard to see so I usually stick some masking tape next to the spot so you don't loose them. Then the next step is to lightly sand the spots with 220 grit paper and spray the spots with some rattle can lacquer. Don't do too many at first to you see how the sheen will do. It may be too glossy or not glossy enough and you might need a different can of lacquer. If you get it too dull it's more difficult to fix. If it's too glossy you can also buff it a little with 0000 steel wool to flatten it. If there is an indention still showing in the scratch you can put multiple coats on sanding it between coats until you level it. If it's a dent or a deep scratch you might need to get a professional that does furniture touch up to burn it in. It's a stick of shellac that is melted into the dent with a soldering iron and buff it out. 

If the finish did wrinkle up then it's a varnish or polyurethane and the scratches would need to be colored first with a marker and then the finish touched up with a small soft brush and an oil based polyurethane. 

The deal with alder is it's a hardwood but a soft hardwood. The surface of it isn't that much different than pine. When I got into the business ash was the wood to use for cabinets. Even some of it was every bit as soft as alder so alder isn't unreasonably soft. I think if it has been stained light you wouldn't have had a problem.


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