# Tenon Tightness... Too Tight or Too Loose?



## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

Yesterday I was dry-fitting a couple of pieces that will make up a miter-saw cart.

The joinery is via mortise and tenon with glue.
My problem is that I still don't have the knowledge of how tight/loose that fit should be.

Yesterday I thought I had a "just right" fit... yet on the dry fit I cracked the mortise piece.

Any pointers?

Thank you


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

My criteria is "slightly snug." That is the tenon will not freely slide into the mortise without some assistance. However, it should not be so tight that I have to force it in. It is a feel thing. You want it just touching.

george


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

These words describe how I make them:
friction fit, slip fit with light force, snug with light forcing pressure, friction hold when inverted.
Glue will expand the wood, so a "snug" fit may become a "tight fit.
Any variation from perpendicular on either the tenon or inside the mortise will cause a tight spot where extra force is need to seat the tenon. It's best to use a guide block on your chisel to maintain a perpendicular wall.
Some good videos on the hand chiseled mortise techniques:


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mortise+and+tenon+by+hand




https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=paul+sellers+mortise


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

i go for about .005" gap.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> My criteria is "slightly snug." That is the tenon will not freely slide into the mortise without some assistance. However, it should not be so tight that I have to force it in. It is a feel thing. You want it just touching.
> 
> george


+1.........


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with the slightly snug group.
If you dry fit it, it should not fall apart when held up without support and not so tight that you have to fight to get it in or out


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## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone.
I re-worked the tenons a while ago.
They went in snugly... except my first one which was way too loose.

Glued everything up and clamped down the frames.
Tomorrow we shall see how they came out!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

If you have any veneer, you can glue it to a tenon to 'thicken it up. Then re-cut to size.


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## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

Tony B said:


> If you have any veneer, you can glue it to a tenon to 'thicken it up. Then re-cut to size.


Good idea! I'll keep it noted in my notebook for future reference.
Thank you!


=====
So checking the frames this morning... they're solid.
Awesome news!

Yet immediately it was evident they were too tall for the miter saw. If shooting to have the miter saw bed at 34-1/2 height... these frames would place the saw at about 42 tall.

Going back to the notebook and re-checking the measurements, they were solid. Yet the math I did to substract the casters' height was wrong. So with much love and affection, I'll re-mill some 2x4 today and start over.

This will give me a chance to use the jointer and planer properly.
Will update later!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

@AJ. 
Quote: ....Yet immediately it was evident they were too tall for the miter saw. If shooting to have the miter saw bed at 34-1/2 height... these frames would place the saw at about 42 tall. 

Sorry, but there are no awards for being the first. There are literally thousands of us on here that beat you to it.


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## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

Tony B said:


> Sorry, but there are no awards for being the first. There are literally thousands of us on here that beat you to it.


hahaha

Something I really like about woodworking is the tranquility it gives me.
Earlier in life I would have gotten mad. Not escalated to rage... not that much.
Yet I would have gotten mad.

Presently, I get frustrated, yet quickly realize I can learn from this.
Then I get all eager to make a second pass better than the first.

There was a saying my grandmother used a lot: 


> Juventud, divino tesoro.


translated to english


> Youth, divine treasure.


As the years wash over me, I see the wisdom of the saying.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I am going to be 74 I have not done any woodworking in about 8 years when I sold my last shop.
I can not believe how much I forgot. Relearning is normally a very quick process - not so when you factor in age.
I remember how fast I could work and get thinks pretty perfect Now it takes me forever to get anything done. I recently started putting together a shop and that is my sanctuary. My hallowed grounds. 
Anyway, I am accumulated tools and spend a lot of time making jigs and work tables. Surprisingly, when I screw something up, i dont get upset or aggrievated, I just re-do it as a matter of course. I also dont have all the tools and machines I used to have. I just enjoy being there. I guess working with wood is very primal. 
My grandmother used to have an old expression, too bad I cant say it on here. 
Anyway, glad to have you on here.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Im the same way. Too many years Making things for everyone else, now Im too lazy to make things for myself.

Ive got several projects started, maybe they will get done, maybe not.....


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

My problem is not whether they will get done, but rather, how many times will they get re-done. 
Although this forum sure stimulates a lot of memory cells.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I think the treatments I take zap a lot of energy from me. I thought yesturday I should take all the lumber I have and just make craft shelf, etc out of it. No stress projects.

Everybody loves a yard sale...

But at 55 I think you'll get more done than I ....


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm going to be 74 in less than 4 weeks. 
I'm trying to blame the 'slowness'of a project to being out of practice. There was a time, from repetition, I could build a whole table, like a console table or writing table in a half day including glue-up of the top. The next day only took a few hours to flatten the top and put on 3 coats of pre-cat lacquer and be done with it. 
Now the process takes a lot of thought planning and 4 times as much scrap paper, 
My simple little router table will be done tomorrow. Looking forward to taking some stuff off the wall shelf unit and putting them in the drawers of the router table. 
Looking forward to a trip to my favorite and only hardwood supplier. then play around again with both form and steam bending.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I was watching somebody making fishing rods on utube the other day online. The only thing I watch on utube is repairs home, auto or boat building...I stumbled across a fishing rod making video. That seems more interesting than woodworking right now plus I could probably do in the spare bedroom...

I did pick up,an old lathe which might be fun to learn. Maybe next fall...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Rebelwork said:


> I think the treatments I take zap a lot of energy from me. I thought yesturday I should take all the lumber I have and just make craft shelf, etc out of it. No stress projects.
> 
> Everybody loves a yard sale...
> 
> But at 55 I think you'll get more done than I ....





Rebelwork said:


> I was watching somebody making fishing rods on utube the other day online. The only thing I watch on utube is repairs home, auto or boat building...I stumbled across a fishing rod making video. That seems more interesting than woodworking right now plus I could probably do in the spare bedroom...
> 
> I did pick up,an old lathe which might be fun to learn. Maybe next fall...


Maybe so, but are your tenons tight or loose?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I'll ask Tony B...

Tony B are my tenons tight or loose?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

We ain't that close.
But OK, Turn your head and cough


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## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

lololol

fun thread

Actually makes me enjoy growing up.

I did remake the frames this afternoon.
Came out quite nice.
Photos will get uploaded tomorrow.

A short while ago I glued them up.
Looking forward to the miter saw cart.

As to my loose tenons....


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Go to a Dr. and get that checked out.


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## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

So continuing work today!


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## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

Progress!!
Glued up everything... tomorrow we attach casters and a plywood top!


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