# Band saw blade "walks" away from center.



## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

I need some advice here please.

I can not seem to keep the blade on my bandsaw from walking off the center of the tire to the front of the tire no matter what I try. I've checked everything including the alignment of the top and bottom wheels. I have the angle adjuster cranked all the way in so that the top wheel is leaning to the back which should cause the blade to walk to the rear but it always goes to the front.

It doesn't not come off, but it does end up scraping the blade guard.

Someone has suggested that I need to change the tires. Before I spend the money for new tires, does changing the tires sound feasible as a solution?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*how old is it?*

Is this a "new" issue, or has it always done this? Is it a new blade that does it or will any blade walk off? 

Have you cleaned the tires with a stiff brush while it's turned on...Yeah I know it's dangerous. You can remove the blade and just do the bottom wheel under power. Are the tires "crowned" or dead flat. They should have a slight crown.

When you back out all the guides away from the blade that's centered on the tires, what happens when it's running? 

Remove the table and check the rims of the wheels with a long straight edge to see what's going on. Is one of the wheels loose in it's bearings? 

Is the tension spring too compressed/blade too tight? OR is it not compressed and the blade is too loose?

How's that for a list of questions? :laughing: bill


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## MartinTaylor (Sep 26, 2013)

Before you do anything too drastic, what is it you are attempting to do? If you are trying to resaw (thin down a wide piece of timber) then you need to use the correct blade. It should be no more than 3tpi (teeth per inch) and preferably about 1inch deep. Once I changed over to the correct blade on my bandsaw, no more wandering blades.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Check the side guides, as they should be proximate to the blade. The blade should be running on the rear guide bearing. When set up for cutting adjust the upper guide as close to the stock as possible. When cutting you may be exerting side forces which could derail the blade.


















.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Sometimes, the top wheel tilt gets jammed. Have you tried loosening everything and removing the blade? Then see if the top wheel tilts freely and no debris is restricting it. Also, back off the blade tension devise and make sure it travels up and down smoothly. Might help if you said what bandsaw and blade you are using.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> Is this a "new" issue, or has it always done this? Is it a new blade that does it or will any blade walk off?
> 
> Have you cleaned the tires with a stiff brush while it's turned on...Yeah I know it's dangerous. You can remove the blade and just do the bottom wheel under power. Are the tires "crowned" or dead flat. They should have a slight crown.
> 
> ...


Let me see if I can answer all of these....

Is this a "new" issue, or has it always done this?

Because of the weather here, the saw sits for most of the year with the tension off the blade. Its just too darn hot to be out in the direct sun in a super hot shed most of the time. I bought the saw last November and it worked fine all winter. When I tried to use it this year for some resawing, the 1/2" resaw blade came completely off the tires and nothing I did would keep it on. Blade was a 1/2" Wood Slicer resaw blade.

Have you cleaned the tires with a stiff brush while it's turned on

Ah, not while its running, no. However there is a stiff brush that is in constant contact with the lower tire. I'll try brushing the upper tire and see if that helps.

Are the tires "crowned"? Yes.

When you back out all the guides away from the blade that's centered on the tires, what happens when it's running? 

Haven't tried that except to turn the wheels by hand. Hand turning of the wheels shows no travel. I'll try it with the motor running and see what happens.

Remove the table and check the rims of the wheels with a long straight edge to see what's going on. Is one of the wheels loose in it's bearings? 

Wheels appear to be tight on the axles with no bearing lash. Also appear to be properly aligned. Again, I'll recheck.

Is the tension spring too compressed/blade too tight? OR is it not compressed and the blade is too loose?

Compression spring seems to be working properly. I use the "pluck" test when tensioning the blade and do not rely on the indicator. (I paid close attention to the demonstration given by the guy from Carter at the wood show and watched his video several times.)

How's that for a list of questions? 

Sheesh.. I thought this was a woodworking forum, not a police interrogation.... :laughing:


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

MartinTaylor said:


> Before you do anything too drastic, what is it you are attempting to do? If you are trying to resaw (thin down a wide piece of timber) then you need to use the correct blade. It should be no more than 3tpi (teeth per inch) and preferably about 1inch deep. Once I changed over to the correct blade on my bandsaw, no more wandering blades.


It happened earlier in the year with a 1/2" Wood Slicer resaw blade (designed for resawing) and now its doing it with a 1/4" Timber wolf, just not as badly as it did before. The blade stays on the wheels whereas the resaw blade came completely off the tires.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> Check the side guides, as they should be proximate to the blade. The blade should be running on the rear guide bearing. When set up for cutting adjust the upper guide as close to the stock as possible. When cutting you may be exerting side forces which could derail the blade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Should it be running on the rear guide before entering the wood? I keep the bearings as close as practical to the sides of the blade. Any closer and the saw gets locked up on starting.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Hammer1 said:


> Sometimes, the top wheel tilt gets jammed. Have you tried loosening everything and removing the blade? Then see if the top wheel tilts freely and no debris is restricting it. Also, back off the blade tension devise and make sure it travels up and down smoothly. Might help if you said what bandsaw and blade you are using.


Everything moves free.

My saw is a Grizzly G0555P 14" with riser. I use 1/2" Wood Slicer blades for resawing and 1/4" or 1/8" Timber Wolf blades for most other things.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

johnnie52 said:


> Let me see if I can answer all of these....
> 
> Is this a "new" issue, or has it always done this?
> 
> ...


Wheels appear to be tight on the axles with no bearing lash. Also appear to be properly aligned. you don't want them co-planer you want the top wheel to tilt back to the frame of the saw so that the blade's teeth run's in the middle or crown of the tire, their is no way if set up like that , the blade come's off , i guess set the wheel's co-planer , so that the bar or what ever you are using set's flat against both wheel's than tilt the top wheel so that the top moves in to the frame so the teeth are running in the middle of the tire , have the top and bottom beiring's so that they don't touch the blade now it should be running fine , now adjust the top and bottom beiring 's and blade guides . watch the video also


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## Zircon (Aug 1, 2009)

With the blade tensioned, open the top cover and turn the upper wheel with your left hand. With your right hand back off the wing nut that locks the tracking knob in position. As the wheel is turning, turn the tracking knob in and out until the blade is where you want it. Then tighten the wing nut and you should be good to go.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

I have done all of the things recommended by youse guys and the blade still walks to the front of the tire.

I have ordered new blades and should have them in hand in a couple of days. I'll instal one, while taking pictures and post the results. Maybe you guys can see where I'm going wrong....


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## wood shavings (Mar 20, 2009)

Johnnie Might want and it don't cost nothing take the wheels ( rubber part only ) start with the top first and remove, take and rotate 180 degree so that the front is the back and replace this might give you some more wear the crown is somewhat uneven and is pulling the blade off the rim. if it still happens take the bottom off rotate and then pull the top and put it on the bottom. Then put the bottom one that you have already turned 180 and put on the top and give it a try. and like I mentioned it don't cost anything but your time. Best of luck Jerry


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*sounds like... wheel alignment*

It may be an upper wheel adjustment issue.
Make certain the tilt and travel adjustments are working first.
Remove the blade then, see if the wheel itself, which is on a hinge will pivot in and out at the bottom. Grab the rim at the bottom and pull it toward to you while at the same time lifting up. It should "rock" about 3/4" or so.
Next see if the carriage that the wheel is attached to will slide up and down easily when the tension knob is backed off. It slides in a channel or "V" grooves and should move freely.

Here are some good articles:
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=ytff1-tyc-inbox&p=bandsaw%20wheel%20alignment&type=

This one addresses wheel alignment:
http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/techniques/archive/2008/09/12/Q-A.aspx

With the table removed see what a straight edge shows when placed on the 4 edges of the wheel rims. The bottom wheel is not adjustable for tilt, and is your reference point, so everything must happen at the top. However, look to see if the bottom wheel has walked out on it's drive shaft. Look for a clean spot on the inside. How is it held on? Is there a keyway and set screw? It may be adjustable in or out using washers behind it?
There are 2 conditions to look for. Either the rims touch in 3 places, or there is such an off set, only the bottom wheel rims touch.

http://vintagemachinery.org/files/PDF/FAQ/110124076.pdf









Let us know what you find out after checking it... :yes:


EDIT> Snodgrass says look to see that the rubber bands are glued to the wheels.
If they are not, they will throw the blade off. !!!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

johnnie52 said:


> Should it be running on the rear guide before entering the wood? I keep the bearings as close as practical to the sides of the blade. Any closer and the saw gets locked up on starting.


I run the blade against the rear bearing. The side guides should be just skimming the blade, and adjusted back to the gullets. IOW the teeth don't pass through.

Does the blade travel when just running, or when cutting?


















.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I bought a Delta 14 bs from a guy who said it needed new tires. The upper tire had a lot of small cracks in it. When running the blade would come off the rear of the wheel, and the tire would move that way also. 

I removed the tire and cleaned up all the hardened glue from the tire and wheel. I then glued the tire back on the wheel, upside down. There is no crown on the tires (the wheels are crowned) The new tire surface looked new, and the blade tracked just fine.


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## gus1962 (Jan 9, 2013)

Blade tracking issue. Hope everything will be okay soon. Here is a simple instruction I saw to fix the problem "When your saw is tracking correctly, the blade runs on the middle of the wheels. Adjust the tracking by tilting the top wheel in relation to the bottom wheels. A knob behind the upper wheel housing controls this adjustment. Spin the saw by hand and adjust the tracking control until the blade is running in the middle of the wheel. Lock the control in this position. Replace the cover and plug in the saw. Check the tracking by bumping the switch on an off to check the tracking. The blade should maintain its position. Repeat this several times before running the saw at full speed. " or check this blog


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I don't think it would be the blade causing the problem.
I wouldn't try a new blade. Why chance trashing it, before you even get to use it!

How do the tires look? 
Are they glued to the wheels?
Do they seem to have moved after the blade comes off?

I think it's a tire problem.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> I run the blade against the rear bearing. The side guides should be just skimming the blade, and adjusted back to the gullets. IOW the teeth don't pass through.
> 
> Does the blade travel when just running, or when cutting?
> 
> ...


I've been running with the blade about a business card thickness away from the blade. When I make a cut the blade moves back into the bearing. I also run the side bearings like yours. I'll try readjusting the rear bearings and see if the helps.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Pirate said:


> I bought a Delta 14 bs from a guy who said it needed new tires. The upper tire had a lot of small cracks in it. When running the blade would come off the rear of the wheel, and the tire would move that way also.
> 
> I removed the tire and cleaned up all the hardened glue from the tire and wheel. I then glued the tire back on the wheel, upside down. There is no crown on the tires (the wheels are crowned) The new tire surface looked new, and the blade tracked just fine.



I think I may have the same problem. My new blades arrived yesterday and during the changing process I noticed that the top wheel on mine has small cracks all over the surface.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

gus1962 said:


> Blade tracking issue. Hope everything will be okay soon. Here is a simple instruction I saw to fix the problem "When your saw is tracking correctly, the blade runs on the middle of the wheels. Adjust the tracking by tilting the top wheel in relation to the bottom wheels. A knob behind the upper wheel housing controls this adjustment. Spin the saw by hand and adjust the tracking control until the blade is running in the middle of the wheel. Lock the control in this position. Replace the cover and plug in the saw. Check the tracking by bumping the switch on an off to check the tracking. The blade should maintain its position. Repeat this several times before running the saw at full speed. " or check this blog


Been there, done that. Problem is my saw doesn't seem to allow the wheel to tilt far enough back.... I've taken some photos and I'll post them after I answer these other posts.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the comments guys. Always helps to listen to what others say especially those who have had their machines longer than I have, or use them daily rather than monthly....

Anyway, I ordered new blades and they arrived yesterday. I bought 2 Timber Wolf 1/4" x 105" 6 TPI blades. I use these exclusively for all cuts other than resawing. I use 1/2" Wood Slicer blades for that. I ordered new blades because the old one was destroyed from hitting the guard.










A picture is worth a thousand words, so I have taken a few photos of the saw and the tracking issues that I'll share with you all now.

First up, this is the saw I have...










Here are two photos of the tilt travel. (The top wheel moves freely with the blade removed both up and down and tilting in and out)

No blade, top of wheel tilt all the way out.










No blade, top of wheel tilt all the way in










As you can see, the wheel does not move enough to cause any noticeable back tilt at the top. It moves enough to level out, but not to actually tilt in. This is with the wing nut locking nut screwed into the knob allowing as much travel of the adjuster as possible.

This next one shows that I DO remove the table when making blade changes. :yes:










Brushing the tires was mentioned. My lower wheel is always being brushed because I have installed a permanent brush.










So, after installing the blade and turning the wheels by hand several times, the blade has already moved away from center.










After turning the machine on and running it for several seconds the blade has moved farther away from center.










It will stay in this position for awhile, but eventually it will move out to the edge of the tire as is shown in this photo of the old blade before I made the change.










The cracks in the upper tire do not show up well in this last photo but they are very evident to me looking directly at it.










The tires are both glued down tightly and appear to the naked eye to be running true. (not out of round)

So I now have two brand new questions.

1. Do you think I should replace the wing nut lock on the tilting knob with a standard nut to allow more travel to the tilt?

2. If your machine had a tire that was showing cracks would you repair/replace the tires?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's got to tip back more at the top*

However you can get to it do that, I think that's the main issue. Level or "plumb" is not enough. The knob/bolt is part no. 29 in this PDF. a 1.5 mm . See if you can get more travel or tilt, by removing the wing nut altogether. Then if it means using just a longer metric bolt and nut and use a wrench rather than a knob/bolt do that so you can lock it in place.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g0555p_pl.pdf

Re cracks in the tires, I wouldn't worry about them. Loose tires that aren't cemented in place, yes, cracks, no. 

:smile:


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## gus1962 (Jan 9, 2013)

In the band saw book I've read, other reasons why blade doesn't stay centered on wheels are- tires are grooved, hardened,
or won, wheels are misligned, wheel bearing failure or tracking mechnanism is slipping or bent.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> However you can get to it do that, I think that's the main issue. Level or "plumb" is not enough. The knob/bolt is part no. 29 in this PDF. a 1.5 mm . See if you can get more travel or tilt, by removing the wing nut altogether. Then if it means using just a longer metric bolt and nut and use a wrench rather than a knob/bolt do that so you can lock it in place.
> 
> http://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g0555p_pl.pdf
> 
> ...



DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner folks!

I took the wing nut completely off and just a turn or two brought the blade back to the center where it stayed through several cuts. Looks like I'll be going to Lowes tomorrow for a 1.5mm nut.

I also ran the bearings out against the blade as Cabinetman suggested. That also helped prevent the blade from flexing as much.

Thanks for the help guys. You all are great. :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*now just tension the blade*

Snograss recommends "tapping" it with one finger and it should move laterally about 1/8" each way.

I would not run the back thrust guide directly against the blade. It should only touch when cutting pressure is applied, again Snodgrass's recommendation. Proper tension will keep the blade stiff enough to prevent it from fluttering. When you pull on a rope it stays taut. When you cut against the blade and it resists, the upper portion of the blade can flutter above the workpiece IF the blade is not under enough tension. Proper tension also stiffens the blade against twisting. 

Side guides just "kiss" the blade and unless you are making sharper turns the the blade width will allow, they don't come into play much in my experience. I'm no bandsaw expert, but at present count I have 8 of them, 6 woodcutting and 2 metal cutting. I really like the bandsaw as a woodworking machine, and there is nothing like a well tuned machine with a sharp blade. :thumbsup:


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