# Wood logs and moisture content. Help!!!



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi all. 
This is my first post on your forum.
Looks to be pretty inclusive, but I didn't know where to take this question, and since you all are dealing with raw lumber, I thought this might be the right section, so bear with me.

I just acquired some logs . Mind you, these are a bit different than most in that they are totally hollow. Some are up to 42" across and have 5" sides. My intent is to use em for rustic furniture, but I have a major question first.
MOISTURE!!
In other words I don't know what will be a safe moisture content (%) to adhere to when using these for furniture, to (help) avoid splitting.

The logs are silver maple. Some are 6 ft long, some are 4 ft.
They look like they were ant eaten. I didn't see the tree before it came down to see if it was alive, but suspect not. Lip moisture check says dry (if you get that) The base of the tree was a good 6 ft across, and also hollow to within 6" left of the sides.
....
Intent is to cut lengths 2 ft to 3 ft long, strip bark (some is coming off now), clearcoat heavily and put glass tops on em.
....
So the questions arise.
1) What moisture content would you all recommend for a sense of stability?
2) Do you all have any cost effective choices (companies/models) for a
"moisture meter"?

Thanks in advance. I'm lost when it comes to this one.
Aardvark.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

aardvark said:


> Hi all.
> This is my first post on your forum.
> Looks to be pretty inclusive, but I didn't know where to take this question, and since you all are dealing with raw lumber, I thought this might be the right section, so bear with me.
> 
> ...


My guess the maple will split. As far as a moister meter a good one will get into the $$$'s . You can pick up one at lowe's for $9.95 i belive it may not be the most acc. unit but it will give you some kind of idea. I would add some number's to the reading but it will tell you something in the ball park. If you know a person that has a pro version of meter check the numbers with each and see about how much to add. Now all wood is different. and you will get different number's for different wood. I have a delmhust meter a pro version. But cost $$'s . If a one time than $9.95 isn't bad.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Welcome. Your idea sounds neat, the kind of things I like to build.
To your questions (and more to think about) Used as you are describing, just a chunk o' wood no fancy joinery I would be comfortable at 10% moisture content.
As far as a moisture meter (and some will roll their eyes at this, people with high dollar meters) you don't need a super expensive meter. My advice would be go to amazon.com and search ''wood moisture meter'', you can see reviews and price ranges. I use a couple I bought there for $50 or less and am perfectly satisfied.

Now things to think about...#1 *bugs*, a standing dead/hollow live tree is a host to all kinds of bugs. I would say carpenter ants did most of the damage you see, they are not a problem and most likely already gone. It's powder post beetles you really need to worry about. They can work on wood for years, laying eggs that later hatch and the larvae keep working. You don't want to drag them into your house (or sell them to a customer) They don't stay confined=they can/will move to other sources of food (other furniture-flooring-framing...) There are products like Tim-bor and Bora-Care that can be used to treat the wood, they are available online. Or kiln dry the wood to kill the bugs...

While on the subject of [email protected] 5'' thick I would say you will be waiting years to see 10% MC air drying, if ever depending on where you live. Even if the wood feels ''lip dry'' (new one on me) A moisture meter right now will tell you where you stand and get an idea of how long you will be waiting.

Back to bugs, stripping the bark like you said you are going to do is the first thing (like yesterday) to help in that battle.

I typed that as quickly as I could on the way out the door. Hey, pictures of what you are working with would be cool, we like pictures.


.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Thanks guys. 
It took a bit of time to figure out how to navigate the site, so sorry for the delay back.
....
del schisler, thanks for the Lowes lead on a meter. I just got back from picking one up. It is a "General" brand and the cost was $28 bucks. That's do-able. I can see a fancy unit if doing high end "Norm" type of furniture. Not my style.
Some of the maple has split already but we were pretty mean to it, rolling the logs off of the trailer. So I don't know if our abuse had a bearing on it. I'm hoping, since it is hollow, the bulk of the logs will hold together, because the inner stress is relieved...who knows?. All in all, I took about 25 ft worth of length..
....
Daren.
It was ants, from all indication. So you're saying get the bark off? I had planned on covering and bug bombing the crap out of these logs, and not stripping em until they dried some. At present, some bark is coming lose. Also the finished product is going to be heavily clear coated, possibly Varathane or even an Epoxy satin. I would think that would cut off air for bug breeding.
10% eh? Ok, I like that.
I do have access to a guy with a mobile trailer/kiln. I just don't want to push these logs into drying too fast.
Yeah, the "lip test" is one my Dad uses . He's a older woodworker, and though not accurate, if you put a log or even a wet board to your lips, it will be noticeable. Likewise if it is dry. Old guys can teach us somethings. He's 81.

Dudes, Thanks a lot.
It's good info and I was kinda shooting in the dark on this. I see some light now.

Dan O'

(oh, a side note. even if some split happens, I can cut them into 2 "C" shapes and span the glass across the 2 pieces....I'm more worried about long term movement/splitting, after finished.)


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Just checked my logs.
Moisture is sitting ~ 14-16%. Guess they've been dead some times now. I pealed some bark....yup, a few bugs.

Thanks again.
Sorry no pictures. I am not computer literate enough to get them on the forum.
Dan O'


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

Just to add to what has already been said...

I also agree with the 10% MC for the type of build you are planning. You should have no problems at that value. However, also like Daren said, the 5" thick walls of that hollow Maple won't reach 10% for years unless kiln dried.

I have one of the General moisture meters and it is always within 1% of the more expensive Lignomat that I also use. That said, I really doubt that your Maple is at 14% - 16% MC at the core. To get a more accurate number, you should cut off a section of the log at least 6" from the end. Then slice that section in two and check the newly exposed long grain for moisture content. That will tell you how wet the wood is at the core.

Yep, bugs live underneath the bark of dead trees. You can't get the bark off quickly enough IMHO. Sealing the wood with a film finish will not cause any bugs inside to die. They have plenty of air, etc. to live for years sometimes (in the case of PPB's) before chewing their way out and wrecking your furniture in the process.

FYI - Carpenter ants remove decayed/rotten wood to build nesting colonies but they don't eat the wood. It was already decayed when they arrived.

I'll be looking forward to pics of the furniture you make from the hollow logs. It sounds interesting.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

ETWW.
Thanks.

These logs are soooo cool. They are massive. I'm still trying to figure out how to get the one on site that is 6 ft across, to my home. Even if I did, I don't know how I could man handle the thing, to work on it. It has to weigh 1000+ lbs.

I retested moisture on the wood again and on the surface got 20-21% (it rained). Good info on cutting a section. I suspect the same, that the center isn't dry. I fear bringing the logs in yet, due to bugs. I saw none under the first log I stripped , yesterday. Ok, a few small things.
I'm considering tarping em over and bug bombing the crap out of the logs. Wonder if that will do? Bark off first.

Good to hear that the brand meter I bought is somewhat close. That is all I care to hear. If I was building fine high end joinery , well, that's another game. I am not that patient, however. Nor do I have a massive shop and tool assortment. (mostly a auto restoration guy...my first love..sorry guys).

If I can figure out how to do photos in the near future, I'll be posting em. I have em, and am keeping before/during/after photos of my projects. (Finished off an engine block coffee table, last week. 305ci in Chevy orange, pistons up to hold glass top)

I am a builder/architect/etc, and have worked wood for decades, but the raw stuff is new to me. Bugs/ splitting/movement are my biggest concerns, and y'all have been a VAST help in this realm.

THANKS
Dan O'


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Well.
My stuff is mostly de-barked. 
I decided to cut one of the lengths into 3, ea. 15" long rounds. Yup, they're soaked inside.
The meter hit 50% on some of the fresh cuts (max it goes). I certainly didn't expect that.
Got some drying to do.

I'm afraid kiln dry might blow em apart and crack em. I bought a cheap small under the desk ceramic heater. I'm going to set it down in the center of them and give em a fighting chance at faster than garage, open air drying.

Should be interesting.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Ok, Sorry for being annoying, but the questions keep popping in my head.
I made the cuts as stated in my last post. What can I seal the ends of the log cuts with to lessen splitting, while they are in a drying process?

Biggest concern is that in the future, the end grain is going to be a visual piece. I cannot use latex paint, since it will take on the color and I can't sand it out after soaking deep. I can't use wax, because when I sand later, it will be a gummed nightmare. 
How about a clear ? Or something clear with a finished stain color mixed in?

Suggestions?? Think of it as being a later finished surface.


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## wagnerm (Sep 5, 2011)

@aardvark:

Wood loses moisture from the faces and sides at a lower rate than its ends and, while you can't completely stop the process, you can slow it down by sealing the ends of the boards before drying them. There are many solutions, a cost-effective one is to coat the logs with a solution of equal parts of aluminium paint and spar varnish. 

Keep in mind to coat all ends at the same time, to make sure your logs dry at the same rate. Additionally, air dry your logs in stacks with stickers (1 inch spacers) between each piece, to allow the air to flow all around all boards and let your wood dry up evenly.

Hope this helps.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Wagnerm, Thanks for the drying info and sealing options.

These will be dried a bit different than standard board lumber, since they are HUGE hollow logs. Some measure 42" across and have sides of 5" or less. I will be stacking em on a pallet, and then 2x stickers inbetween the log cuts. The cuts are either 16" tall (coffee table ht.) or 27" tall (kitchen table ht.). They will be stacked quite tall since space is an issue. 
Also since I don't have 2 yrs+ for drying time, I'm placing very small ceramic space heaters down the center of the hollows, to speed the process some. I will plywood top the stacks to hold heat in.
No this isn't optimum, but kiln dry (I fear) will blow em apart, and slow drying isn't an option. I need to find a inbetween and take a chance. If I get a split or two, I can live with it, and a few cutoffs already do have some movement and splits started.

Thanks for the input. I know I'm probably off base with my drying choice, but don't have a better option I know of.

Thanks.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

aardvark said:


> Wagnerm, Thanks for the drying info and sealing options.
> 
> These will be dried a bit different than standard board lumber, since they are HUGE hollow logs. Some measure 42" across and have sides of 5" or less. I will be stacking em on a pallet, and then 2x stickers inbetween the log cuts. The cuts are either 16" tall (coffee table ht.) or 27" tall (kitchen table ht.). They will be stacked quite tall since space is an issue.
> Also since I don't have 2 yrs+ for drying time, I'm placing very small ceramic space heaters down the center of the hollows, to speed the process some. I will plywood top the stacks to hold heat in.
> ...


If you had some way to cut them to about the size you would be better off. With the drying the way you are doing is going to take a long time. With the heater's may help but i belive the wood will split any way. I would cut them to about the size and go that route. Log drying is a long time waiting. good luck on on the meter I got mine for $9.95. I can't belive they went up that much. The same meter is at harbor freight also at the 9 dollar price. Oh well i guess they need the money ???


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah.
I tested the first log cuts after bark stripping, and got ~25% moisture. Higher than I anticipated from the looks of them.
On the cost of the meter, it was $28.00 even on the internet. I had no issues with that price, since I was looking at others starting at $65 and running very high from there. One over $200. It works great, and from what I'm told it's fairly accurate. If it's a few % off, I'm good with that. Not doing any fine joinery here.

I've been cutting on em. 
On the 5 , 60ish" logs I got,,, 2 are cut to lengths, and 3 are stripped and ready for cutting this week. I think it will help take some stress off of some of em. No cut is longer than 27" and most are 16". Same will happen with the remaining logs.
Next is to de-bug em and garage em away for the winter. I see virtually no bug movement except a few stray carpenter ants. There is bug hole damage in the pulp wood, and none under the bark.

Thanks again.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

If they are hallow, really how much moisture could there be?


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Dominick
Hey, your in my neck-o-da woods. Ya Hey Der! Wauconda(ish) Illinois, here. Where you at?

Some portions hit 30+ % on the meter in a fresh chainsaw cut. Others hit 15%. This is at the time I stacked em for drying.

Update is they are drying well and fast. Some minor splitting has happened on a few of the 10 pieces, as expected. The splitting started early and hasn't continued (cross fingers now (pause)). ......Ok,,,done.
The thinner pieces are getting a surface moisture reading of ~8-12% depending on where I take the readings, so It's been two weeks of drying and I'll go another week on those pieces. These have ~ 1.5" to 2" side thicknesses and my readings are not taken on fresh sawcuts (so we know they could be higher). 

The thicker pieces have been holding some moisture better (oh well...more time) They are hitting 12-20%, w/ some spots less than 10%. again depending on where I take readings. 

I think the dry heat of these little ceramic space heaters is really doing the trick. I know, I know....not the proper way, and I was considering tenting these up and running a dehumidifier and a fan, but the money wasn't available for a good dehumidifier, and again I had concerns of drying too fast.
The setup is kinda different from normal in that since these are hollow, I can stack em like a smokestack 4 high, and I run the space heater blowing into the base. Top is plywooded over to hold the heat in. It's running about 85-90 degrees at the top of the stack and we've had some pretty cold mornings (frost and ice yesterday).

Really looking forward to playing with the first thinner three pieces. I thank you all for your help.
.....
Oh on a side note. I just pulled out some oak burl I had sitting for nearly 15 years, and had basically forgotten about them. The slabs are HUGE, but sure got bug bit and some rot. I spent time cleaning em up, cutting off the bad/rotted portions and am now trying to find interior space for these. I see some good sized slabs coming from them. One piece is 4 ft x 2.5 ft x 8"thick. Some others come near that size. About 5 pieces and a few scraps. 
Cool stuff, and some very radical graining, plus some age related added effects to them.

Dan


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Hey der you. Yea mchenry. You like to type alot.send pics of what you got there. It would be cool to see what your working with.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

I not be so computer savy in knowing how to post up dem der pictures., Ya Hey! 
Yer right up da River Road from me,, eh? 
(ok, enough Yooper. Been spending too much time in the U.P eating the pasties)

You know theres a wood supply house on Bonner Road in Wauconda that sells log cuts and barn wood? G.H. Woodworking and Sawmill. It's the old Chicago Cutlery building. He has a portable mill for on site cutting.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Yea I'm not good at the confuser either. I do this on iPhone.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Yea I've been there he want way to much


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I've got a few other places around here where I can get slabs and what not. Not sure where you shop


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

He had a 4/4 by 12"by 6' walnut slab for $250. Wrong answer.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

I generally don't shop for wood. I come across it and buy a few small pieces here or there, but don't spend big for wood.
I'm kinda new to the "wood" game. Been in the trades for years and done a lot with it, but when it comes to furniture or fine work...count me out. If I can't rough it out with a chainsaw, well, I am not set up for it and don't have the patients for fine joinery.
So I don't have much in sources around here...yet.

Wood Werks in Wauconda if you wanna go broke quick buying tools.

I'm a car guy second and own/restore/ beat up vehicles. The wood is a third love (God family first)


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

It's been 3 weeks of drying with a ceramic space heater, as described above. Out of the 10 hollowed logs , 5 are dry to a surface moisture of between 5 and 11% depending on where I test. Yeah it's a surface measurement but I can't cut these to test internal since they are cut to size already.
Of the 5 dry ones, 3 split. All 5 are very thin sides, 1" to 2" , so I expected em to act up on me. I can take the split ones when making tables and cut em into 2, ' C " shapes like " ( - ) " and glass top across that, so all is not lost with them.

The remaining 5 have some thick sides, 4" to 6", and I assume are going to take some time. I'm getting reasonable moisture numbers, but am not confident they are dry inside, and they have a ways to go. Numbers are running between 6 and 17%. 17% being on the very thick portions. The ends are checking but not cracking through.

Overall I'm quite happy. This means I can get a start on a few of them before it gets miserably cold up here in the farmlands around Chi-town. 

Y E S ! !
Thanks all, for your help. I would have been in a mess without it. 
I needed some direction, and BAD.
Dan O'


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