# Optimum thickness of bench top



## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I have recently acquired a collection of nice brass 3/4" benchdogs and cast holdfasts. Problem is they don't seem to work all that well. Since both of these things have been uses for over 100 years now I'm sure its all my fault. In my mind at least I imagined the thicker the top the stronger the hold for my dogs. That in mind I screwed 3 inches of pine stock (because thats what I had) to the underside of my plywood bench. The dogs don't seem to mind but my quick release vise doesn't like the separation from my bench top and contorts into odd angles when tightened, and sometimes it releases involuntarily. The holdfasts are giving me trouble as well. To get any holding strength I have to pound them quite hard with a metal hammer... heavy wooden mallet does nothing. Even when they do hold it seems to do nothing for side to side motion. I imagine this could be because of the softwood, or I could be using them for the wrong application but I am not at all sure. Any suggestions?


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

How thick is the total top? Holdfasts won't work well if the top is too thick.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

To elaborate a little further, when I got my Gramercy holdfasts they worked better after I roughed the shaft (sandpaper in concentric circled and some nail set pings; may not be an issue with cast iron), glued leather to the pads, and got a feel for _where_ to hit them with the mallet. I can get them to hold decently with a well placed blow with the heel of my hand now, whereas before I got better with the technique I had to hit them pretty hard to acheive any hold.

You'll have to experiment, but I hit mine where the arm starts to slop down rather than straight down on top of the shaft. Remember that you're basically wedging the rod into the hole crooked to get it to grab.


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

My bench is close to 3 3/4" thick in parts where I have bench dogs. This was my uninformed decision based on nothing more than that bench dogs being about that long. Since then I have seen that most prefab bench tops are about 1 1/2" thick. I'm wondering how thick mine should be.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Two things -

The holdfast can be made to grip much better by texturing the shaft with a triangle file or hack saw - nothing sever just give it some lines to help it grab.

The other thing is that cast holdfast or very susceptible to cracking and can result in an eye injury. Probably not a problem for you working by yourself but I had the pad of one shoot off and wirl right past a young kid's face during a demonstration. That said the harder you are hitting these to make them hold the shorter the life will be - to not have to hit them as hard see first comment above.


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

A holdfast needs to be sized, to some degree, to the bench in which it will be used. The longer the holdfast the thicker the top needs to be. Back when holdfasts were more popular than end-vices bench-tops were 5" to 6" thick and holdfasts were 16' to 18" long. 

Cast iron holdfasts do not work as well as wrought iron ones. Wrought iron is softer and the pad has some spring to it so when driven which causes it to hold better.


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I looked it up and have ductle iron holdfasts with a 3-1/2" throat, an overall length of 8-1/4". I had just assumed cast.


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

8" is pretty small, are you sure it is 100 years old?


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

Not sure, regardless what thickness bench top would they work best with?


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

My workbench has a top made of 2x4’s on edge so it is 3 1/2" thick. The cast holdfasts that I use work fairly well, without an extreme hit to lock them down. I am, however, looking to find or make some wrought iron ones to replace them.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Wrangler said:


> I am, however, looking to find or make some wrought iron ones to replace them.


FYI in case you have not seen these. Made from steel rather than wrought iron, but look to be robust.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-HOLDFAST.XX/Holdfasts_by_Gramercy_Tools


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Dave Paine said:


> FYI in case you have not seen these. Made from steel rather than wrought iron, but look to be robust. http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-HOLDFAST.XX/Holdfasts_by_Gramercy_Tools


I have been looking at those, and If I don't make my own, I think I might buy a couple pairs. I do; however, like making my own tools.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> FYI in case you have not seen these. Made from steel rather than wrought iron, but look to be robust.
> 
> http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-HOLDFAST.XX/Holdfasts_by_Gramercy_Tools



I now have two of those, and they're fantastic. Heavy, solid, and reliable. And the price is better than almost anyone else can offer.


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## JQMack (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm a fan of the gramercy's as well.


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I do appreciate the help but... still wondering how thick my bench top should be


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

GISer3546 said:


> I do appreciate the help but... still wondering how thick my bench top should be


I built my bench with the idea of using hold fasts. I read that 3 to 4" was appropriate, thus, I made mine 3 1/2".


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

For an 8" holdfast- 2" or less.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Maybe you should take a 2x4 and bore some 3/4" holes in it and relieve them to different depths so you can see what your holdfasts like.


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

Good idea... I`ll try a few and see what to do.


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