# Help with refinishing cherry entry door



## Modela (May 27, 2012)

I have been refinishing this front cherry door. 









It is fairly well protected with a long overhang and we took the hard route of sanding given the fact that I have had mixed results using paint remover.

Sanded down the contrast between the present and protected looks like this:








The sanded side darkens a bit with a thinner applied but not a lot.

I wanted to restore the finish as much as possible and thought about using a polyurethane like minwax exterior over a stain. In reading about stains I found that they are fraught with problems, the stain type fading quickly and the pigmented stains having their own problems but better.

I would like to hear some suggestions from more knowledgeable readers. I plan to spray the door with either a conventional gun or a HVLP gun. I am leaning more towards the conventional due to the thickness of the polyurethane.

Thanks in advance,

Jim


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

That is really a beautiful door! I'd ask you to read this article about paint without pigment. I've used it (a lot) and really like it. Regardless of what you do, I'd also suggest you pass on any finish with urethane resins.....the fellow that wrote the article I linked is Jim Kull, quite a good finishing guru, though now retired.


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## Modela (May 27, 2012)

Fred Hargis said:


> That is really a beautiful door! I'd ask you to read this article about paint without pigment. I've used it (a lot) and really like it. Regardless of what you do, I'd also suggest you pass on any finish with urethane resins.....the fellow that wrote the article I linked is Jim Kull, quite a good finishing guru, though now retired.


If I get his point it was that none of the finishes hold up over time. I used to say that all exterior clear doors end up being painted and that surely is the option in this case. It is just hard to think of painting over cherry.

I do have one case that tends to disprove it. Many years ago I remodeled the house we were living in including a new raised panel fir door. It was exposed to the exterior so I carefully applied six coats of Polyurethane enamel, sanding in between coats as you would an automotive finish.

At the same time I coated the underside of the adjacent tongue and groove decking ceiling of the carport with marine varnish. It was much more protected area. 

Sixteen years later when we moved the door was still in good shape even though it had much less protection than the marine varnished overhead carport roof. Both were spray painted with a conventional gun although the carport didn't get as many coats. 

Reality is that we may end up painting the door. Should I decide to paint it I would probably opt for a two part urethane paint, even with an automotive clear coat. Another possibility would be epoxy although it is harder to come by in our area. 

Jim


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## Modela (May 27, 2012)

*Is it a clear paint???*

In looking at the web site I believe it is a clear paint?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Modela said:


> I have been refinishing this front cherry door.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What problems are you having stripping the old finish off? I refinish 2 or 3 entry doors a year and sometimes I just use the Kleen Strip remover because it is available everywhere. Regardless of what type of stripper you use, you have to be patient and let the chemical work. It's real important you get all the old finish off because when you come back with the new stain it won't take where the old finish is. With this weaker stripper it normally takes me all day to get the finish off, sand it and stain it.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Is this the same thread as this one?









 







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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

Modela said:


> In looking at the web site I believe it is a clear paint?


If you are referring to the link I posted, it's only clear paint much like varnish would be clear. Without the pigment the higher number oil bases look a little cloudy in the can, but dry to look much like a linseed oil based varnish. In my last house I replaced all the woodwork, installing white oak...including window sills I made. I used the untinted paint on them because of the sun exposure and occasional (accidental) rain exposure they got. It matched the other finish I used (a linseed oil non-poly varnish) almost exactly. It has the amber tone that these varnishes tend to have.


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## Modela (May 27, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> Is this the same thread as this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it is. The earlier thread was before I started sanding the door. The information I gained from this has been very useful. Painting has been one of the most confusing things I have done. As you well know it is as much art as anything. 

I must admit that I have fretted probably too much over this but it is an important part of the house and I probably feel a bit guilty for letting it go this far. 

I have appreciated all the input and believe I am much better informed. Like someone said, most paint places know little about paint.

Jim


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## Modela (May 27, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> What problems are you having stripping the old finish off? I refinish 2 or 3 entry doors a year and sometimes I just use the Kleen Strip remover because it is available everywhere. Regardless of what type of stripper you use, you have to be patient and let the chemical work. It's real important you get all the old finish off because when you come back with the new stain it won't take where the old finish is. With this weaker stripper it normally takes me all day to get the finish off, sand it and stain it.


I have never had much luck with strippers. They seem to leave the wood pretty much lifeless, taking out natural color and leaving it looking like it has been washed and hung out to dry. 

If I could I would get back the original cherry look like it looks on the inside. On the inside we used a Sherwin Williams catalized laquer which was supposed to be almost as tough as a polyurethane. It went on nicely has stood up well.

Jim

Jim


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Modela said:


> I have never had much luck with strippers. They seem to leave the wood pretty much lifeless, taking out natural color and leaving it looking like it has been washed and hung out to dry.
> 
> If I could I would get back the original cherry look like it looks on the inside. On the inside we used a Sherwin Williams catalized laquer which was supposed to be almost as tough as a polyurethane. It went on nicely has stood up well.
> 
> ...


OK the Catalyzed Lacquer is the problem you are having trying to strip the finish off your door. It will take a lot more soaking and will be almost impossible to tell when it's ready. It would be trial and error timing it to tell how long to soak it. What the remover will do is liquefy the old finish and if you don't get it washed off, it will just dry back on there. It would be necessary to work with smaller areas at a time and rinse it more. The lacquer thinner rinse will work as a stripper also. 

Paint removers do strip the color as well as the finish. Most are formulated to do this because it gives you the option of refinishing lighter than it was. The bleaching is usually only very superficial and is removed with sanding. At one time I was using Kwick Kleen #125 remover in my shop and I had other furniture refinishers bringing me furniture to strip for them because it stripped the color better. I was set up much better for refinishing then. I had what was called a flow over system. It is a 4x8 tank with a drain in one corner that the stripper would drain in a bucket. Then I had a pump with it that would pump the stripper through a hose and the remover would come out the center of a scrub brush. This remover isn't suitable for something like a door on a house. It is too thin. They do make a semi-paste remover however I can't remember the product number. 

I think if you didn't have such of a overhang on your house the catalyzed lacquer would not have held up for you. Lacquer is just not as good for exterior work. In fact only pretty much the old timers are using the only ones lacquer paints on cars anymore. I've even suspended using lacquer for interior work. I believe if you would use an exterior stain followed by the sun block and finish with Kwick Kleen's exterior fast dry polyurethane you wouldn't have anymore problem with the door. You could use a marine grade spar varnish however there is a certain amount of yellowing with spars that might not go well with the cherry look you are wanting.


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## Modela (May 27, 2012)

Today I am going to make a temporary door from plywood and take it over to my shop where I have a spray booth. I think I will try stripping it since it is almost impossible to remove all the finish in the raised panels. I wish I had an equivalent scrap I could play with. I figure the worst that could happen is it ended up being painted.

Steve, Fred, and Cabinetman, could you recommend some stains, sealers, and finishes?

Jim


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Modela said:


> Today I am going to make a temporary door from plywood and take it over to my shop where I have a spray booth. I think I will try stripping it since it is almost impossible to remove all the finish in the raised panels. I wish I had an equivalent scrap I could play with. I figure the worst that could happen is it ended up being painted.
> 
> Steve, Fred, and Cabinetman, could you recommend some stains, sealers, and finishes?
> 
> Jim


 Taking the door down should make it a lot easier to strip. Laying it horizontal on some saw horses it would be easier to soak however there's a chance the stripper can seep around the panels to the other side damaging the finish on the inside side. 

I am currently using Deckscapes Oil Semi-Transparent Stain from Sherwin Williams. It's a fence and deck stain however it is an exterior stain and it will wipe off so it doesn't obscure the wood like it would if you sprayed it on a fence and left it. After it is dry I coat the doors with Sun Block from Kwick Kleen. In the past I have been topcoating doors with Minwax Spar Varnish however the next door I do I plan to use Kwick Kleen's Exterior Fast Dry Polyurethane.


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## Modela (May 27, 2012)

Thanks for the tip on the stripper seeping through. That is a distinct possibility. I will strip it vertically, even sloping downward a bit.

Jim


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Modela said:


> could you recommend some stains, sealers, and finishes?
> 
> Jim


As for stains, I may not stain Cherry. Pigmented oil base stains are easy to use, you can just wipe them on. As for brands, there's not an appreciable difference in them. Usually we get hooked on a brand. Could be on how it works, or maybe it's just convenient to get.

I would strip the door instead of doing all that sanding. I like using an MC based stripper (methylene chloride) for very difficult projects. One good one is called "Aircraft Stripper", in the blue can. It's heavy bodied. I would strip with the door flat. It allows the stripper to stay put better. It's viscous enough not to run into the door and drip out the other side. In using any stripper, just a thin coating is what should work. Maybe a second application. For interior use you can try Citra Strip...a water base formula, not as toxic as MC based. For any stripper follow the directions on the label carefully.

For a finish, I prefer not to use spar varnishes or spar urethanes. They all will fail in time, and need sanding to recover. For that matter any film finish will fail when used exposed to the elements. I would use Penofin red label. It's an easy maintenance finish, and comes in clear and colors.









 







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## Modela (May 27, 2012)

*Update*

We decided to sand the finish off because we were concerned about applying strippers and a concern it might run through the raised panels.
Below is a picture of our progress to date. 









After sanding we used Smith & Company Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer, brushing on the first coat, letting it dry for two days, sanding lightly. We waited one day and applied Epifanes' Poly-urethan 2-component Satin Yacht Finish. It is difficult to see the results given the lighting but the picture below of the door shows better.
The next step is to add additional coats of the Epifanes finish.


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## slevapaul (Aug 25, 2012)

The wooden doors should be properly finished with sand and oil based finishing. Doors are the main part of the home which are placed in front of the house. So they should be neatly maintained.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

slevapaul said:


> The wooden doors should be properly finished with sand and oil based finishing. Doors are the main part of the home which are placed in front of the house. So they should be neatly maintained.


 Your wording and punctuation are a little off today. You should have said "The wooden door should be sanded and finished with an oil based finish. A front door is the main part of the home, so they should be neatly maintained."


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

>>>> I have never had much luck with strippers.

Let me make one point. If you plan to stain the door, sanding is not a suffient way to remove the old existing finish. Sanding does not remove the finish that has been embedded or absorbed into the wood. Any new stain added will not be absorbed evenly leading to a very uneven coloring. Only a chemical stripper will remove all the existing finish. Chose one that contains methylene chloride for the fastest, most complete job.

A hint, remove the door to work on it.


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