# Ponderings about dust collection, duct size, and machines...



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

With the current ongoing discussion RE: upsizing ducting from a Harbor Freight 2HP Dust collector to 5 or 6 inch mains, I am left with some random thoughts that I figured I would share with everyone. Not that anyone in particular is interested, but just to satisfy the itch in my brain...

I can't recommend modding the HF 2HP DC enough. I know owners of the gray one are saying they are having trouble / breaking impeller hubs when using the pullers on them to swap the impeller. My advice? Stick with it. That impeller upgrade realy puts this dust collector into a whole different category of machine. To be blunt, Harbor Freight massively cheaped out on the tiny impeller and should have gone with a full size to begin with.

The filter bag. If I didn't have to heat or air condition my shop, I would gladly dump my dust out the side of the shop and call it good. But I live and work in coastal Texas, and that air the dust is taking with it, has to be made up from somewhere, outside. where it is HOT and HUMID for 80% of the time. Hard pass. So instead I am using a pleated cartridge ffilter, a Wynn 35A. Popular mod that cost more than the DC did when it was new., but I got mine a long time ago now, one of the old green ones, that would go on sale for something like $160.00, and then they would honor the old 20% off coupons on top of that so I got it for under $130.00 probably 12 years ago or so now...

I ran a Thien 55gallon side inlet separator for a LONG time, and never realized until I got an anemometer how much air flow that thing was killing. So I took it out, and went with a neutral vane. FULLY understanding that blowing down my filter to keep it clean after every 2nd or 3rd use was a MUST do activity, and I would end up having to buy collector bags. Big whoop....

This leaves me with the question everyone else seems to be having. Will this dust collector, with the pleated filter, and upsized impeller support 6" ducting?

With those being the only mods, no. As you may know, the intake port on the DC itself is nominally 5", probably something more like 4-3/4" but whatever the specifics are, it's smaller than 6". You will either have to make your own impeller housing cover with a 6" port, cut up your OE cover to add a 6" port, or IF you can find one, get a Hydrofarm AC6F Active Air Flange, Copy the screw hole locations over and drill to match, and use that. I am reaching out to Hydrofarm right now as the AC6F seems to be out of stock for everybody for the last month...

Ducting however is only one issue. And that issue can be problematic...

Mind you, my current ducting is a single 5" out of the DC, and over to the wall using adjustable elbows at shallow angles and snap lock 5" pipe, then using the OE 5x4x4 wye from the DC, I split into 2 4" mains. One overhead, one at the ground. 
Your tools can be a huge issue.

My tools are as follows.


Ryobi BT3100 table saw with belly pan, and Shark Guard. So a 4" belly pan port, a 2.5" blade shroud port, and a 2.5" blade guard port. Dust collection from this is good.
Central Machinery 14" bandsaw. It came with a 1.75" port. Since upgraded to a Jet 2.5" port, and an add on 2.5" port on the lower wheel guard. Dust collection from this is good. Not perfect, but good. I only get sawdust when I forget to turn on the DC.
Chicago Electric 12" sldiing compound miter saw. A single 1.5" port upsized to a 1.75 hose, pulled to a 4" port in a custom dust shroud. Dust collection on this as is to be expected, abysmal. Going over designs for dust collection ports for sliders. ALL ideas seem to have serious drawbacks.
Central Machinery 12x36 lathe. No OE dust port. A 4x12 register box with rare earth magnets used as a dust port and moved where needed. I really need a more proper, smooth bellmouth hood, but it works reasonably well.
Northern Industrial 13" 16 speed floor model drill press. No dust port. Another bellmouth needed here, with some manner of hold down, and maybe formable hose that I can reduce the amount of bumpiness on. When I rig the lathe collection to it it seems to work well.
Ryobi 8" bench grinder. No dust port. non esistent.
Dremel 16" scroll saw. 1.75" dust port that is honestly useless. This honestly needs a custom 3D printed at least a 2.5" port to have any appreciable effect.
Rigid oscillating edge belt / spindle sander. 2.5" port. I use one of those 4x2.25" funnel reducers to make the connection to my overhead on my bench, and it works well drawing every bit of dust at least that I can see in, you can actually watch sawdust coming off the belt and being drawn in a fast stream into the collection vents. Would 4" be better? Sure. Do I want to carve up my sander to make this work? Probably not.
Ryobi AP1301 13" Lunchbox planer. 2.5" port. Same funnel as the sander. it works reasonably well, but I still get some chips thrown by onto the table. Not enough to be THAT worried about. HOWEVER, if someone made an affordable 4" dust port replacement, I would snag one in a hot second... 
Sunhill SM-150B 6-1/8 benchtop jointer. 2.5" port. Good thing about planers and jointers, they don't produce much in the way of dust, but LOTS of shavings / chips. Collection of this is fair to good, never backs up etc... 
Handheld routers. These produce obnoxious amounts of chips, not a lot in the way of fine dust, but there are no ports of any sort. I believe Rockler or someone had an add on dust port for universal hand held router applilcation. I would like to add that. Especially when routing dovetails.
Handheld sanders. Here is where the trouble is. They almost all of them, have teeny tiny massively undersized ports, 1.75" IF I am lucky, usually closer to 1" and they require special adapters just to fit a shop vac hose. For these, I attach to my shop vac / Thien separator, AND I run the ambient air cleaner, AND if I am working with a reactive species of wood, I wear a respirator with at least N95 cartridges, which have been a LOT tougher to come by as of late for some reason....
So go over that again boiled down to soup and nuts. My big machines are for the most part fine, or they just don't have factory dust collection and need to be fixed. The lathe, and drill press are manageable but could be better, and I seriously doublt adding more diameter to the mains will help without massive improvements in ports. 

The sliding miter saw is the other large machine problem, and again, bigger ducts will offer no real relief, it is an issue of being able to capture at the source before it spews everywhere, the nature of the rear sliding rails make that VERY difficult. Compact sliders with front rails or non sliding miter saws would be a LOT easier to collect dust from.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Sorry I'm not reading all that....lol

5 or 6 mains off a HF?


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Rebelwork said:


> Sorry I'm not reading all that....lol
> 
> 5 or 6 mains off a HF?


TLR.
HF DC needs upgraded impeller and filter.

Single 5" main split to dual 4" mains.

Upsizing ductwork without MASSIVELY improving tool ports is pointless IMHO.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I don't see the value off a HF. Why not just buy a better dust collector?


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## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

dbhost said:


> ...To be blunt, Harbor Freight massively cheaped out on the tiny impeller...


Not exactly. Yes they "cheaped our" but it wasn't on the impeller. It's the _motor_ that's the biggest cost item on that DC. In order to cheap out on the motor it was necessary to use a smaller impeller to reduce the load.

With the 10" impeller you can run the fan with no restriction at all, take off everything and just use the bare shroud. The motor will still keep chugging along.

Change that to a 12" impeller and you have to keep a decent restriction on it to avoid overheating and shortening it's life.

Of course if you're not making any more mods to increase the flow you'll probably be fine. Just keep in mind that with the 12" fan it's a 2HP DC with a 1.5HP motor.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

dbhost said:


> With the current ongoing discussion RE: upsizing ducting from a Harbor Freight 2HP Dust collector to 5 or 6 inch mains, I am left with some random thoughts that I figured I would share with everyone. Not that anyone in particular is interested, but just to satisfy the itch in my brain...
> 
> I can't recommend modding the HF 2HP DC enough. I know owners of the gray one are saying they are having trouble / breaking impeller hubs when using the pullers on them to swap the impeller. My advice? Stick with it. That impeller upgrade realy puts this dust collector into a whole different category of machine. To be blunt, Harbor Freight massively cheaped out on the tiny impeller and should have gone with a full size to begin with.
> 
> ...


I would not try to run the smaller machines of the dust collector.

Routers And Sanders work better off a shop vac. Rockler and CenTec both make great hose fitting solutions that work pretty well. I have the centec with a cheap-ish and old ridgid shop vac and it works almost 100% with my ROS, router, router table and even my lunchbox planer. (Nothing works well with my miter saw)









There is 2" pvc under the cabinets that goes from the miter saw to the router table. It's a very simple run but makes things a lot easier.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

HoytC said:


> Not exactly. Yes they "cheaped our" but it wasn't on the impeller. It's the _motor_ that's the biggest cost item on that DC. In order to cheap out on the motor it was necessary to use a smaller impeller to reduce the load.
> 
> With the 10" impeller you can run the fan with no restriction at all, take off everything and just use the bare shroud. The motor will still keep chugging along.
> 
> ...


I'm no expert in electric motors by any means, but I know 12" impeller upgrades have been around for at least a decade, and I have yet to come across anyone saying their motor burned out prematurely after doing the upgrade...


BigCountry79 said:


> I would not try to run the smaller machines of the dust collector.
> 
> Routers And Sanders work better off a shop vac. Rockler and CenTec both make great hose fitting solutions that work pretty well. I have the centec with a cheap-ish and old ridgid shop vac and it works almost 100% with my ROS, router, router table and even my lunchbox planer. (Nothing works well with my miter saw)
> 
> ...


The jointer, and planer produce so much as to be unreasonable to run off of the shop vac. WIth a Thien cyclone my trash can separator has maybe 15 gallons capacity. Planing produces a LOT of shavings. 

Sanders in particular however, are very much better managed by a shop vac than by a dust collector... Yeah totally aggree...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I think the only one I have left of real importance is the bandsaw. The belt sander and miter I don't use often enough to worry about it , but have considered it for the slider. I've got an overhead Delta dust collector but a real down draft is the only real solution..


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Rebelwork said:


> I don't see the value off a HF. Why not just buy a better dust collector?


Purchase price of my HF 2HP DC new was $128.00
Purchase price of my Wen impeller was $35.00
Purchase price of my Wynn 35A $175.49

Total cost. $338.49

Next closest dust collector in cost / performance. 
Wen 3403 $386.45 PLUS you need add a cartridge filter. And honestly the Wynn filters have shot up price wise since I bought mine, The current model is the 35C222NANO and retails for $225.00 plus $29.89 shipping. 

Total cost for next closests DC. $641.34

Closest factory fitted dust collector with a cartidge filter is fitted with a 1 micron, not a .5 micron cartridge filter, and it retails at, including shipping, just under $900.00

Will running the HF DC with a larger impeller reduce motor life? Without a doubt. By what margin? Well the Rikon impeller update has been around at least a decade that I know of, and I have yet to hear of anyone actually prematurely wearing out the motor. 

Would I use a HF DC for a large pro shop? Absolutely not, it is not meant for that. Would I use a (modded) HF DC for a one or two person SMALL craft shop? WIthout any hesitation. 

Do you get bragging rights for having a high end name tag on your equipment? Nope. But your projects, and your customers don't care.

And woodworking is a DIY pursuit. Why not try to DIY? You know.... built not bought.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Rebelwork said:


> I think the only one I have left of real importance is the bandsaw. The belt sander and miter I don't use often enough to worry about it , but have considered it for the slider. I've got an overhead Delta dust collector but a real down draft is the only real solution..


Yeah, that is going to require an awful lot of redesign of most miter saw benches / tables, but you are right, particularly with sliders, downdraft is about the only solution.

Honestly the Rigid belt sander via the DC is fine, no real problems, and no need for the extra noise of the shop vac. I don't see any advantage using the shop vac there. Would a 4" port work better? Maybe. It seems like Rigid did do a pretty good job setting up collection on this particular tool...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I haven't bothed with running a line to the mite saw. It would have to run across the ceiling and it would get in the way. As you mention a shop vacs at this spot would be easier, but it would have to be dedicated and on a wall switch next to the saw..


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Rebelwork said:


> I haven't bothed with running a line to the mite saw. It would have to run across the ceiling and it would get in the way. As you mention a shop vacs at this spot would be easier, but it would have to be dedicated and on a wall switch next to the saw..


I believe I mentioned 2 4" runs, one across the floor with a branch that gets the table saw, and router table box / downdraft, and then the upper that goes accross the ceiling. This gets to the miter saw bench, workbench, router table fence, and blade guard on the table saw. Yes there is a 5' rise to get the miter saw. I am not saying the DC hood doesn't get MOST of the dust, but less than I would like...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

All my shop vacs hooked to the belt sander and bandsaws have a remote ON/OFF switch like this:








Amazon.com: HBN Outdoor Indoor Wireless Remote Control 3-Prong Outlet Weatherproof Heavy Duty 15 A Compact 1 Remote 1 Outlet with Remote 6-inch Cord 100ft Range ETL Listed (Battery Included) : Tools & Home Improvement


Amazon.com: HBN Outdoor Indoor Wireless Remote Control 3-Prong Outlet Weatherproof Heavy Duty 15 A Compact 1 Remote 1 Outlet with Remote 6-inch Cord 100ft Range ETL Listed (Battery Included) : Tools & Home Improvement



www.amazon.com





Really cheap and it really works great!


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

dbhost said:


> The jointer, and planer produce so much as to be unreasonable to run off of the shop vac. WIth a Thien cyclone my trash can separator has maybe 15 gallons capacity. Planing produces a LOT of shavings.
> 
> Sanders in particular however, are very much better managed by a shop vac than by a dust collector... Yeah totally aggree...


In fairness, I did say the shop vac is good for SMALLER tools. Before I got my DC though, I did run the planer off my shop vac and it worked fine except the capacity for chips. I couldn't deal with larger projects in 5 gallon buckets though...


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

That looks about right. Yeah, I have no clue why any jointer or planer, benchtop or not, would be factory fitted with a 2.5" dust port. They SHOULD be fitted with a 4" with an option to reduce to 2.5 for those using shop vacs...

Honestly, after the space the Thien takes up in the trash can separator, I max out at about 20 gallons of dust / shavings with it. I have done a good number of plane this construction lumber down to make it usable projects, mostly "country" inspired pine projects, and I can literally fill, dump, fill, dump, fill, dump that can at LEAST 3 times on one big project. Kind of a pain. Honestly, it is easier to dump the steel shop vac Thien separator than it was to dump the 55 gallon poly drum separator. The drum itself is unweildy, and the side inlet made it cumbersome to deal with.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Thay all seem to have different sizes. The PM bandsaw has the smallest at 3”


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

dbhost said:


> That looks about right. Yeah, I have no clue why any jointer or planer, benchtop or not, would be factory fitted with a 2.5" dust port. They SHOULD be fitted with a 4" with an option to reduce to 2.5 for those using shop vacs...
> 
> Honestly, after the space the Thien takes up in the trash can separator, I max out at about 20 gallons of dust / shavings with it. I have done a good number of plane this construction lumber down to make it usable projects, mostly "country" inspired pine projects, and I can literally fill, dump, fill, dump, fill, dump that can at LEAST 3 times on one big project. Kind of a pain. Honestly, it is easier to dump the steel shop vac Thien separator than it was to dump the 55 gallon poly drum separator. The drum itself is unweildy, and the side inlet made it cumbersome to deal with.


I picked up some 15gallon drums on the hypothesis that they will be easier to swap out and dump so I'll do it regularly...
We will see...


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

All of my dust collection regrets revolve around shop vacs.

Regret #1. I bought a Shop Vac branded wall mount vac thinking gee this will make a great sawdust collection system. WIth its puny 1.75" hose and tiny 8 gallon tank. I know better now.

Regret #2. I bought a Shop Vac branded 2.5" ducting system. Except the tubes were 2", not 2.5" and the blast gates were quite restrictive. I have recently seen a version from another vendor that claims the ID of the tubes to be 2.5", and the blast gates have the same ID as the tubes. Not gonna do that, but intrigued to say the least.

Regret #3. Bought my Rigid 12 gallon shop vac, without realizing you need the ones with the inlet in the tank in order to be able to use a pre filter bag. Mine has the intake on the powerhead and can not use pre filter bags. I would LOVE to sell this shop vac and buy one with the proper inlet, but I cannot see buying another shop vac while I still have this one.

Regret #4. I tried using one of those simple in / out bucket separators in a 5 gallon bucket before the Thien. Capacity is laughably low for woodworking purposes, and without a baffle, it bypasses too much anyway.


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