# Mitre Saw help?



## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Hello fellow woodworkers!

I have a Sliding Mitre Saw here siting with me. He has issues with cutting straight lines. Probably he is not very confident of himself or he needs a new blade?

This is the saw: http://www.lidl.de/de/parkside-zug-kapp-und-gehrungssaege-pzks-1500-a1/p172459

For those not familiar, Lidl is a German Super-Market corporation that has stores all over Europe (yes I am in Europe). In US terms, their tools are like Harbor-Freight or Wal-Mart quality or a little better.

I need to emphasize that I am completely newbie with Circular Saws and that I only know what I learned from the "Internet University"... :icon_rolleyes:

The saw is about 1/4 to 1 whole degree off. The increments are just holes on a metallic bracket under the saw and are about 1 degree off according to the scale on the saw itself. The blade seems to vibrate quite a lot. When the cut edge is placed on a straight surface the piece wombles (correct word?) a little (there are "mountains" and "valleys" of about 0.5mm | 1/64).

I need a Sliding Mitre Saw to make picture frames, mirrors, boxes and small furniture.

Yes, I know about table saws but I have no room for one! (or the money...)

The problem is that I have no blades other than the *stamped* 24-tooth blade that came with the saw to make tests and I only have a window of 15 days to return the saw back and get my money back.

So, is this normal for Mitre Saws? Is it worth to try and calibrate it? Any blade suggestions (210mm | 8 1/4 inch)?

P.S.

I can take and upload pictures. I have a blog actually but I am way of schedule because my computer's motherboard committed suicide and I had to wait one month for a replacement to arrive from the US, so this why I do not have a proper review-in-progress for this saw yet to show you.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Sounds like a cheap saw. You could try a better blade but Im guessing youll still have the same problems.

From the link you provided and what you described it sounds and looks pretty bad. Id make sure 15 days dont run out and get it back to where you bought it.


I dont know what you can get over there but any of the middle to high end box store brands over here would be fine. I personally am a fan of the DeWalt miter saws.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

sounds like you may have 2 or more issues.

1st issue, the teeth on the blade may not be "lined up". If you UNPLUG the saw, and look down the blade as you rotate it by hand, you will probably find 1 or more teeth that is not in line with the rest. those teeth will chew up the profile of the wood. 

A new blade would fix this issue if you can find the problem to be sure it exists. I wouldnt run out for a new blade if the one you have is visually ok...

With that said, the saw should not vibrate... maybe the blade is unbalanced, or maybe the arbor or motor or something else is unbalanced... you wont know without getting a new blade.


BUT the real issue, if the preset stop points for miter angles are off, blade doesnt matter. 

Sometimes these things are adjustable, the plate might be screwed in that you can loosen/adjust, or the pin that falls into the slots might be adjustable... I dont know the saw, so I can only suggest you inspect for such a mechanism. If there is no mechanism, or you cannot adjust them individually (where setting the 90 correct makes the 45 be off) welll... thats a problem.

You can ignore the presets entirely, set it to 0 and clamp it down if possible. (sometimes the saw wants to "fall into" the preset when your close, which makes it hard to clamp down right beside it)

you could bore out the notch to encompass the right position (and be careful with that wiggle room that you now have in the setup.)

Or return it.

My inclination is to return it, a miter saw that doesn't cut straight fails at its only purpose. You could try another to see if yours was just a bad apple. If they are all off, you have to decide with your wallet if its worth spending more or if the price justifies making some sacrifices.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Scinzon said:


> This is the saw: http://www.lidl.de/de/parkside-zug-kapp-und-gehrungssaege-pzks-1500-a1/p172459
> 
> The saw is about 1/4 to 1 whole degree off. The increments are just holes on a metallic bracket under the saw and are about 1 degree off according to the scale on the saw itself. The blade seems to vibrate quite a lot. When the cut edge is placed on a straight surface the piece wombles (correct word?) a little (there are "mountains" and "valleys" of about 0.5mm | 1/64).
> 
> ...


Stinson
If your unhappy with the new saw now, it will only get worse. 
Buy a saw that will last you a long time that you can be proud of. 
The quality of your woodwork depends on it. 
Picture frames require a very accurate cut. I recommend a 60 tooth blade for fine work. 
A 12" compound miter saw will cost more, but is very versatile and capable of cutting all sizes of picture frames. 
Welcome to our forum.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Thanks for the advise.

There are DeWalt mitre saws here but they are too expensive for me. May I ask your opinions about Bosch, Black & Decker, Makita and Metabo? Maybe even Ryobi. 
Excluding DeWalt, American brands are rare here and finding parts is tricky...

Yes, I found a tooth that is off and the blade has some teeth angled left and some angled right. I do not own a 2-inch square so I cannot be 100% sure, and the ruler thingy is slopped about 1/64 from the table...

The saw I have here has some screws. Here is a picture of the mechanism:









I played with it a bit and now the 0 degree mark is about correct: 









The 45 degrees mark on the left however it is not:









And this is what I originally got:









I cannot test this today because it is night time, but tomorrow I will be able to make more tests.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> Stinson
> If your unhappy with the new saw now, it will only get worse.
> Buy a saw that will last you a long time that you can be proud of.
> The quality of your woodwork depends on it.
> ...


Thanks, nice to be here. 

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking right now. 

The problem for me with 12'' saws would be finding good blades. I saw people from the US suggesting blades in videos and I either cannot find anything or they are far too over-priced. I can order from internet but I need a shop from within the E.U that does not over-charge for shipping, otherwise Customs people will seize the blade and ask for money.


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## woodchux (Jul 6, 2014)

Great advice from all previous posts! If you are not happy NOW with the results of that saw's performance, think about what the performance will be after a few hours of use. Please do yourself a favor and return that saw NOW, for either a better one like Bosch, Black & Decker, or Makita - which are all better choices with better blades, or your full $ returned! Just wondering - what type of saw did you use before you bought the Parkside? Be safe.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Scinzon said:


> Thanks, nice to be here.
> 
> Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking right now.
> 
> The problem for me with 12'' saws would be finding good blades. I saw people from the US suggesting blades in videos and I either cannot find anything or they are far too over-priced. I can order from internet but I need a shop from within the E.U that does not over-charge for shipping, otherwise Customs people will seize the blade and ask for money.


There is most likely fine adjustments that can be made on your new saw to square the blade to the fence of the saw and reset the angle gauge to be dead-on. 
The first cut to test is the 90* straight cut. If the saw is not locked on at 90*, it will be off at all angles. Test with a good square. 
It is normal for the teeth on the saw blade to alternate pointing left, center or right. But if one of the teeth on the blade sticks out further than the others, this is not acceptable. You can test for this by using a straight edge and slowly rolling the blade against it to see if one tooth is out of alignment.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

woodchux said:


> Great advice from all previous posts! If you are not happy NOW with the results of that saw's performance, think about what the performance will be after a few hours of use. Please do yourself a favor and return that saw NOW, for either a better one like Bosch, Black & Decker, or Makita - which are all better choices with better blades, or your full $ returned! Just wondering - what type of saw did you use before you bought the Parkside? Be safe.


I was not using a mitre saw or a chop saw. I was using a plastic tactix brand mitre box with a Lidl Jap-Saw, then a Tacticx saw for mitre cuts untill I bough a Top-Man melamine saw following the suggestion of a local woodworker, which worked pretty well actually but eyeballing straight cuts is not my thing.

I am going to give this saw a second chance tomorrow. This means calibrating everything. :laughing:

This is the blade that came with the saw: 









It is made by Zhejing Changheng Tools Co. Ltd. Never hear of them.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Alright, quick update.

First and foremost, I would like to thank you all for your advise and help.

There is no need to waste any more of your time on this matter because the saw is going back to the store tomorrow and let's hope that they will accept it.

This is what happened:








This is the bold that holds the saw blade on the motor. As you can see the lower end of the thread is flattened. 
I do not like speaking of myself, but I am not a weak person. I am actually average and for a city dweller I am strongish (at least i think so). I had to use brute force to unscrew this bolt. Whoever screw this bolt back at the factory messed it up really good (Actually most bolts were screwed down REALLY tight). 
This bolt cannot get screwed back in. I was trying for like half an hour and the bolt was just spinning around its own axis like a ballerina. So back to the store it goes!

Now, where do I find a good affordable sliding mitre saw...? :confused1:


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

Just what country are you in?

HJ


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

I know you are returning the saw, but I'm curious anyway. Is (was) there anyway to loosen the fence? The normal procedure for fixing problems with miter saws is to align the Fence ninety degrees to the blade, rather then looking for some way to make the blade ninety degrees to the fence.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Well if DeWalt is too expensive than your pretty stuck with Craftsman, Kobalt and Ryobi. I have no idea if you can get any of those over there.

One of the reasons I like the DeWalt is because of ease of adjustment. It also has the very nice miter detent override feature. IMHO I would save up a little more and get something more substantial, whether DeWalt or otherwise. 

Bosch, Milwaulkee, Makita, Rigid and DeWalt all make nice miter saws.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

There was a way to adjust the fence, kind of. The screws where too tight at first and I needed brute force to unscrew them. I have like half a dozen scratches of my hands from doing so and I needed BOTH hands on the Allen wrench...
When I was trying to screw one screw half or quarter of a revolution, the fence would move where he wanted so I pushed the whole thing as back as possible and screw it there.

I did some fence adjustments and then I adjusted the head and the table. The table "locks" by means of thumbscrew on the table itself, just right under the motor and is hard not to "fall" in the preset increments. 
The I removed the blade. You are supposed to be able to change the blade according to the manufacturer. They even pair this saw with a 3-blade set sometimes. Then the screw refused to get back in and examination revealed that the lower threads are flattened. Really no point in seeking a replacement screw, so I am not going to test it tomorrow.

For 100€ I prefer to spent 200€ when I can gather it and buy a better saw.


I cannot get Craftsman or Kobalt but I can get Ryobi. 

DeWalts are just too expensive for my budget. for example, the cheapest DeWalt DW718XPS sells for 675€. Euros, not Dollars.

Rigid is a brand I hear for the first time. Milwaulkee was not rare here untill 20 years ago, now they are rare. Bosh is common and Makita is not uncommon. I can get these

I would like to avoid country-specific recommendations, it would only cause unnecessary confusion, you have to trust me on that. Anything withing the E.U works for me because there are no customs and stores might offer free shipping.

I am thinking about a 10" saw because the reduced vibration and noise blades sound appealing. Anyone has any experience with them?


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

woodchux said:


> Great advice from all previous posts! If you are not happy NOW with the results of that saw's performance, think about what the performance will be after a few hours of use. Please do yourself a favor and return that saw NOW, for either a better one like Bosch, Black & Decker, or Makita - which are all better choices with better blades, or your full $ returned! Just wondering - what type of saw did you use before you bought the Parkside? Be safe.


I personally would choose the Bosch or Makita over the Black & Decker. 
Porter Cable and DeWalt are both owned by the same parent company. 
Black & Decker, Skil and Bosch are all under the same umbrella.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Scinzon said:


> Rigid is a brand I hear for the first time. Milwaulkee was not rare here untill 20 years ago, now they are rare. Bosh is common and Makita is not uncommon. I can get these
> 
> I am thinking about a 10" saw because the reduced vibration and noise blades sound appealing. Anyone has any experience with them?





A 10" slider will do everything youre trying to do, nothing wrong with that. 

You can expect to pay $300-500+ for any of the brands you mentioned in a 10" slider style.

If you're trying to stay under 200 pounds you're not going to have much better than what you do now.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

If you are trying to keep the cost down, why not start with a non-powered miter saw. Try the Nobex Proman Miter Saw. I believe that it is made in Sweden, so you probably can get it in Europe without too much hassle. Non-powered miter saws are quiet, take up less space than a powered one, and the top of line models cost about the same as a junk powered miter saw.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Scinzon said:


> Alright, quick update.
> 
> This is the bold that holds the saw blade on the motor. As you can see the *lower end of the thread is flattened. *
> I do not like speaking of myself, but I am not a weak person. I am actually average and for a city dweller I am strongish (at least i think so). *I had to use brute force to unscrew this bolt. Whoever screw this bolt back at the factory messed it up really good (Actually most bolts were screwed down REALLY tight). *
> ...


That bolt is a left hand thread, that is, it will not screw IN turning it normally.... Clockwise. It will not start unless you turn it CCW. Notice which way the threads ramp uphill or downhill compared to a normal bolt. 
If the threads are "flattened" something caused that....
operator error?

Finally, never trust the scales or indicators on a miter saw. Make a cut and measure it with a square or angle gauge. The if you want to set your indicator use the angle you have measure for an approximation, but not actual reading. They are notoriously inaccurate.

I would do all things possible before returning the saw. 
Unless you move up considerably in price, you MAY have similar issues with a different saw.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

thats what I was thinking... Ive spent more time than I will admit turning the arbor screws the wrong way by habit before realizing it. This is with me being fully aware of what way it should turn


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Hand Powered Mitre saw like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkl_422N6Dc

I might be able to fabricate something with my Drill Press/Pillar Drills and steel rods from printers. These rods are just great for precision applications because they have consistent diameter and also resist bending and rust. 
(If this works, it will be a great idea for a video actually. :smile: )

The powered saw stayed here after all and tomorrow is May 1 and everything is closed, so I might give it a try and return it in Saturday.

I do not mess up screws unless they are really low quality and/or damaged or something like that. I have 15 years of experience with hand tools and especially screwdrivers and taking things apart.

I cannot remember which way the screw came out. What I remember is hand pain from holding back the blade guard and pushing in the motor lock leaver with my left hand. The manual says to remove the whole thing but tiny nuts started to pop out when I removed the moving mechanism of the blade guard and I did not removed the blade guard after all because I cannot return it back a few parts lighter... It did worked however and the blade was successfully removed.

The manual is really bad written though. The English translation is like translating German text in GoogleTranslate. The translation in my native is even worst. 
Since Parkside started translating the original manuals I just throw them away and find my self around the tools. They also removed most of the pictures and names of parts are just direct translations from German! _Mein Gott!!!_

The problem with the increments of the Parkside saw is that there is a bullet catch under the saw that really wants to fall into the predefined slots and that the whole table is locked into place by means of a thumbscrew that presses the smooth side of the aluminum table and is hard to actually stay in place. There is only one such screw at the right hand side of the saw.
A solution might be to fabricate a whole new increment bracket thingy but I do not want to go there.


I checked some on-line shops and I like the following so far:

Bosch PCM10

Bosh PCM 8S (but I don't see any notches for the increments)

Black & Decker SMS500


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*blade removal*

To remove the retaining nut, secure the arbor from rotating using the arbor lock pin or other means, and turn the nut in the same direction the teeth face. 
It doesn't matter which side of the blade the motor is on since the machine is designed to "self tighten" the blade under use. Motorized table saws have the motor on the left to permit the blade to tilt without bumping the work, belt driven table saws may have the motor on the right side, miter saws may also have the motor on the right.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/replace-blade-ryobi-10-inch-power-miter-saw-model-ts254-75950.html


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

that slot bracket thing needs to be right... (be aware, you need to align 0 to be square to the fence, even if that doesnt show 0 on the markings).

However, its 1 plate, and the various slots need to be correctly referenced to each other. more expensive saws will have a plate for each setting to adjust individually. but we are comparing saws that might be 5 or 10x more.

this is all far too much work to make a saw work though. bosch makes a great miter saw.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

I am wondering if I can ignore the markings completely and just make templates using wood to get right the degrees that I need so that when I need to adjust, I will grab the template, put it on the saw, align everything and then cut the actual piece.

(but then I will need a precision machinist tool to get the angles right... Any suggestions? Specially the head tilting on the Parkside is rubish.)

bauerbach, Bosch makes many mitre saw, which one you speak about?


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

I'd suggest you work through this article. It will tell you how to get your saw set-up properly, and is the best article I've seen on the topic.

http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/07/23/miter-saw-tune-up/

That arbor bolt in your photo is a left-handed thread, as woodnthings indicated. The slight flattening of the threads at the end won't make any difference. You just need to turn it CCW to tighten.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

Scinzon said:


> I am wondering if I can ignore the markings completely and just make templates using wood to get right the degrees that I need so that when I need to adjust, I will grab the template, put it on the saw, align everything and then cut the actual piece.
> 
> (but then I will need a precision machinist tool to get the angles right... Any suggestions? Specially the head tilting on the Parkside is rubish.)
> 
> bauerbach, Bosch makes many mitre saw, which one you speak about?


you could do that... do you WANT to do that? I wouldnt... tools should save you time, not waste time.

some cheap tools have forgivable flaws. you have to replace the blade and align everything? no biggie.

The design is inherently flawed where it is impossible to square it? thats broken.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

pweller said:


> I'd suggest you work through this article. It will tell you how to get your saw set-up properly, and is the best article I've seen on the topic.
> 
> http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/07/23/miter-saw-tune-up/
> 
> That arbor bolt in your photo is a left-handed thread, as woodnthings indicated. The slight flattening of the threads at the end won't make any difference. You just need to turn it CCW to tighten.


Following the advise from this article, I found out that the parts at the right and left of the rotating mitre gauge are about 0.25mm lower than the gauge.

This article also made me desperate... Now I feel like am never going to make a "perfect" picture frame...:sad:


The blade is back in. It should be in the manual with big bold letters but no. The manual is safety, safety, safety, more safety, some instruction on how to select angles, then even more safety.

The screws on this thing are the cheap soft variety. Half a dozen blade changes and I am going to need replacement screws because the screwdrivers will "eat" the slots on the heads. I suspect that they also used Imperial screwdriver slots so metric screwdrivers are either too big or too small. Something not uncommon for cheap products.
The screws are some kind of special Allen screws, not sure how easy it will be to find replacements.


What are your opinions? Mitre Saw or (smallish contractor )Table Saw with DIY Mitre Sled?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Not a "smallish" table saw but.....*

A reasonable size table saw will make you much happier.
Tables that are too small require outrigger sup[ports and you end up with the same size as if you had started larger.

I have a Bosch 4100 series job site table saw and it is lightweight, compact, powerful and very accurate. It has built in rear and side supports that slide back inside the table. 

A DIY miter sled will be adjustable because you will make it that way. You can make a dedicated 45 degree right and left sled or an adjustable angle one. I have both. Do NOT get a table saw with tabs in the miter slots...el cheapo version. Get one with the 3/4" X 3/8" standard miter slots.

:smile: here's mine:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/table-saw-sled-build-49218/


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

most arbor bolts are hex head so they can be tightened with a wrench.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Scinzon said:


> What are your opinions? Mitre Saw or (smallish contractor )Table Saw with DIY Mitre Sled?


Pros & Cons:
The Table Saw is more versatile
The miter saw is more compact
For picture frames a good miter saw can be ideal
The table saw takes up more space when stored 
Plywood and sheet material cannot be cut on a miter saw. 
Unless you use a sled on the TS, the set-up is faster on the miter saw. 
Good luck with your decision.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

bauerbach said:


> most arbor bolts are hex head so they can be tightened with a wrench.


Same is true for my saw, but the screws for the safety cover rising mechanism are Philips head.



woodnthings said:


> A reasonable size table saw will make you much happier.
> Tables that are too small require outrigger sup[ports and you end up with the same size as if you had started larger.
> 
> I have a Bosch 4100 series job site table saw and it is lightweight, compact, powerful and very accurate. It has built in rear and side supports that slide back inside the table.
> ...


Now that's what I am talking about! Excellent brilliant build!!! :thumbsup:

I need to get a digital protractor.


Thanks for the advise Toolman50!


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

bauerbach said:


> you could do that... do you WANT to do that? I wouldnt... tools should save you time, not waste time.
> 
> some cheap tools have forgivable flaws. you have to replace the blade and align everything? no biggie.
> 
> The design is inherently flawed where it is impossible to square it? thats broken.


This has buggered my mind for the last days and still does.

Realistically, I do not need a Mitre Saw every day because I do not work everyday.
The idea is to produce things like candle holders or picture frames in limited runs by using primarily redeemed wood and then sell them to make some money. 
Having to zero the saw before cutting is not that terrible as long as the saw keeps its zero.

I tried to make a picture frame today. Here are the results:











Alright, no cheating.









As you can see, cuts are straight now, but I am about 0,50-0,75 degrees off from "perfect" 45 degrees. The problem is that my instruments seems to be inaccurate so I cannot tell if the saw is inaccurate or if I zero it properly...

The logical choice would be to just return the saw and get a refund and next time buy a saw *AFTER* I have gathered all precision instruments to zero it and test it properly. :laughing:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*an easy and cheap test*

Take a straight piece of 1" X 3" stock, not a molding.
Make a 45 degree miter cut as best you can. Now flip one piece over and mate them together. IF your angles are "perfect" you will have a straight edge on both sides. If the angles are NOT you will have one edge with a slight uphill climb. 

In your example your angles are less than 45 degrees slightly since the summation of the parts does not close and complete a 360 degree circle. You may be at 44.9 or 44.7 degrees ....I donno?

Finally, the opposing pieces must be the same lengths or you won't close the frame and there will be a gap.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Well, this is the idea but I have no Instruments to measure things like 0,25 degrees... I should really e-bay a digital protractor.
According to the square I use now, I am "correct". :furious:

The opposing pieces are the "same" length. Maybe 0,10-0,20 of a millimeter off. In the first picture I just cheated and aligned everything so that it look like a "perfect" frame. No further processing was done on the pieces between the two pictures. :no:


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

I think you should buy a very good Combination Square. 
This be invaluable to you as a woodworker.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you don't need a digital protractor...*

That was the point of my cheap and easy test. You want to know which way to move the handle right? If the miters are less than 45 degrees on the stop pin, move the handle a bit towards 46 degrees. You may have to "bypass" the detents if they are not accurate. 

The test I suggested will tell you which way to cheat the machine's indicator to make it work. You can always check it afterward with digital angle gauge, but it's not necessary to make an accurate miter.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

I understand, but I am a little too perfectionist... I want to have 45 degrees on the one side, 135 degrees on the other, cut everything and assemble. Because I am new to powered saws, I expected them to be far more accurate out of the box than me cutting with a mire box.

And it was late night when I posted, so I have to test it tomorrow.

(And I am really low on wood. This was actually a beam from my bed. :laughing: Also the endgrain is router half-circle.)

A good Combination Square is in my "to buy" list, but it will cost me around 150$, no?
Never seen those in the small local shops.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

Scinzon said:


> A good Combination Square is in my "to buy" list, but it will cost me around 150$, no?


Wow! Really $150?? for a combination square??? Maybe if you are purchasing Starrett tools. I can find a good combination square on Amazon for under $20! You can make your own combination square with some ingenuity. You can make it as simple or fancy as you want.

Here is a great link for squaring a combination square: (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-square-a-combination-square/)

Here is another great link for using hand tools: (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog)


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

Scizon, there are two possibilities why your frame didn't come out. One reason is the angle is off, the second reason it may not have come out is because the boards may not be EXACTLY the same length. You will either have to cut pairs at a time (top-bottom and left-right), or use a stop block set up. Drawing a line on you stock and trying to cut to the line doesn't cut it (accurately).


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

ORBlackFZ1 said:


> Wow! Really $150?? for a combination square??? Maybe if you are purchasing Starrett tools. I can find a good combination square on Amazon for under $20! You can make your own combination square with some ingenuity. You can make it as simple or fancy as you want.
> 
> Here is a great link for squaring a combination square: (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-square-a-combination-square/)
> 
> Here is another great link for using hand tools: (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog)


Maybe I confused it with another tool or the ones that I found on-line where the expensive ones. 
I remember this brand though: http://www.woodpeck.com/2616squarewp.html 
Anyway, I have to try and find this locally or e-bay it from Hong Kong and risk shipping damage. I never had experience with Amazon. :huh:



TerryQ said:


> Scizon, there are two possibilities why your frame didn't come out. One reason is the angle is off, the second reason it may not have come out is because the boards may not be EXACTLY the same length. You will either have to cut pairs at a time (top-bottom and left-right), or use a stop block set up. Drawing a line on you stock and trying to cut to the line doesn't cut it (accurately).


Thanks, I will try to stack cut them after I do what woodnthings suggested and see how it works out.

( Any one has some pine they want to get rid off??? :laughing: )


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

You don't need an expensive square, you need an accurate square, it just takes a bit longer to find a cheap accurate one.

Picture frames are hard to get right, are you clamping the pieces when you cut them?

Regardless of how accurate your square is you have to acquire the technique to make the cuts on the saw.

Tune the saw for accurate settings.
(Using Woodn'things method no measuring instruments necessary)
Use your hold down clamps.
Use a stop block to get equal lengths.
Use a sharp blade.
Practice, Practice and then some!

A good disk sander can be your best friend when you need to just trim that smidgen for a perfect fit.

Good luck, soon it will be second nature.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

FrankC said:


> You don't need an expensive square, you need an accurate square, it just takes a bit longer to find a cheap accurate one.
> 
> Picture frames are hard to get right, are you clamping the pieces when you cut them?
> 
> ...


DITTO!

A shooting board and a sharp plane can be a great help, also. Google search on "shooting board" and you will get all kinds of good references.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Is any of the DeWalt 8 1/4 inch 40T blades good for cutting hard woods, plywood MDF and melamine on a Sliding Mitre Saw?
http://www.dewalt.com/tool-part-categories/Circular-Construction-Saw-Blades.aspx

The shops around here mostly sell DeWalt and other cheap brands like Einhell and I cannot find any blades like Freud anywhere but in on-line shops that I try to avoid.

P.S
I think about keeping the saw because I do not need it for everyday use and because I need something not expensive to find out if I can actually make some money from woodworking.
TerryQ influenced greatly this decision back when I wanted to return it, so I am thinking about naming the saw after him.


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## Prologus (Oct 30, 2014)

*Alternative?*

Hi Scinzon,

A long and sad tale, and the guys from the US have been very helpful.

I live in Scotland and I have several Parkside tools. I find them very decent, but I have no experience of your saw.

On the assumption that you are in Germany and therefore in the EU, you might try Axminster (www.axminster.co.uk). They will deliver within the EU.

I have this saw 
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-hobby-series-awsms102-254mm-slide-mitre-saw

It has a 3 year warranty and I am very pleased with the saw. And it comes with a good 80tp negative rake blade which gives a very nice cut. If it is within your budget, you will not be disappointed. I am a hobbyist but I use it a lot and it eats the work. 

My only concern is your electrical supply. Ours ours 220-240v 50hz. Axminster is a very reputable business and you can buy with confidence. They will advise you about the power issue.

Bosch is also worth looking at but is more costly.

Good luck!


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Hello Prologus, thank you for the suggestion.

Yes, a bit sad, but such things happen so I have to adapt and overcome. 
(_But they could had omitted the laser and make the saw a little better..._)

No, I am not in Germany but we have 220-240v at 50hz here. Only our plugs are different. Electrical devices from the UK will work in most EU countries with the right socket adapters which can be found easily.

The Axminster seems to be a good saw. Very nice of them to sell it with a good blade. Hope it serves you well. :thumbsup:

For the time being, I am 99% into getting a better blade and a Scroll Saw to start my tiny little workshop.
And I mean tiny. My "workshop" is like 2 m³. :laughing:


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

*Update*

The DeWalt blades? Forget about them. The distributor does not import them.

The gentleman in the store suggested an Irwin 40T 8 1/4 inch blade which he swears that it is a great blade (if it is good as it is expensive it must be really amazing - 45€ Inc. VAT).


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Got a 40T Irwin 10506811 for the saw.

Cuts are not as smooth as with the cheap 24T blade in terms of resistance, which was to be expected I think, but I still get "mountains and valleys" on the cut surface.


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## DenaliWoodworker13 (May 10, 2015)

Bosch is a decent brand. One thing about miter saws no matter which brand you buy, the left and right fences are always off even 32s of an inch. They're never perfect. The only way you're going to get perfection is probably with Milwaukee's or Festool. But also, a saw's performance is only as good as its blade. Honestly, I would return that saw and save your money until you can afford something decent, like a Bosch. It pays in the long run to buy the better tool. You'll get better results, and more life out of the tool. I waited a year before buying a table saw because I didn't want to buy one and not have the capabilities or quality of the one I've purchased.


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

Scinzon said:


> Got a 40T Irwin 10506811 for the saw. Cuts are not as smooth as with the cheap 24T blade in terms of resistance, which was to be expected I think, but I still get "mountains and valleys" on the cut surface.


You won't be able to get a clean cut from a miter saw with blades designed for a table saw. Miter saws, ESPECIALLY sliding miter saws, require a different tooth profile and more teeth to safely and cleanly cut. Go to a web site of a blade manufacturer and look for a blade made for miter saws, they will explain better than I can.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

Table Saw blade... I imagined that much... Problem is that it does not say thus on the box and in my country you cannot find good blades with a trip to the local store. :furious:
Most guys are like "it is a blade, it cuts wood".

The only websites that I found information about the blade were Russian and that was after I had the blade. I can read Russian but I do not know Russian! :laughing:

The blade that came with the saw was also not a negative angle blade. 

Cuts are not messy to the touch, just to the eye, but I do not know how a cut is supposed to be!

To be honest with you guys, I do not have much money, I do not like to whine so I might give a wrong impression about how fat my wallet is but it is actually malnourished.
I also need a Scroll Saw and because the DW788 does not come in an EU version I need to go for Excalibur and this is already a *HUGE* expense but there is a possibility that it will pay off unlike a Mitre Saw.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Ive cut trim at work with a NEW 36 tooth fast cut blade on my 12" MS with no problems. Generally for repetitive fine wood working cuts a 60-80 tooth blade is ideal. 

If you have a slider you want a negative hook blade.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

12" <3
Cannot afford it at that time... :no:

Mine is 8 1/4 or 210mm and finding blades is hard. I thought that smaller blades will be easier to find but they are not; very limited selection actually.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Miter saw blades*

I've used both 60 tooth and 80 tooth blades on my saws and I prefer the 60 tooth for my work.


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