# Got my first plane



## ftk (May 9, 2012)

Hey all, been reading this forum for a while, finally posting for the first time. I've been wanting to get a plane for a while and today we went to the flea market on a whim. I picked up a Stanley #4 for $15. (Or is this one called Bailey? Excuse the newbie questions!) Couple of pictures below. Right now it is pulled apart and soaking in Evaporust (that stuff works miracles) and I can post some better pics once its cleaned up later tonight.

Couple of questions -- $15 -- did I get ripped off? Do you think this is a keeper? Oh and are there specific parts I should post a picture of to answer the above two questions? 

Thanks all!


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

For $15 you have not a lot invested if this turns out to not be useful.

Whether it is a keeper depends on what you want a hand plane to do.

Items to look for 
a) If the area around the throat sound with no cracks. Some units cracked either from use or bad casting.
b) Is the sole (bottom) flat? Can be sanded to be flat, but you need good flat surface like a granite block or plate glass as reference.
c) Are the sides orthogonal to the base (90 deg). This only matters if you were attaching a fence to aid in jointing a board or for use on its side in what is called a shooting board for trimming mitres.
d) The blade is likely needing to be sharpened. If you decide to keep this consider upgrading to a Ron Hock or Pinnacle or Lee Valley blade. Any of these are much better steel, thicker and will improve performance.
e) How is the tote (handle). Many are close to falling off. Can easily purchase a replacement.
f) After cleaning and removing the rust does the blade adjust easily (depth as well as side-to-side) 

Once you start using hand planes, you will find why there are so many different designs. Each one is aimed at specific tasks.

This #4 is a good plane for a number of tasks, but too short to flatten a long board, or edge a long board, too wide to clean up a dado, etc.

I have a Stanley #3 I bought in a garage sale. I bought a bundle of items for $80 so no specific single value. This was heavily used by the father of the person for decades. The sole needed to be flattened, blade sharpened, but it now works. I purchased other hand planes which effectively replaced it, so it is now just gathering dust.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, I am just now jumping into the hand planes also. I can't seem to read enough or watch enough videos about planes. I can tell you one thing, the fellows here know what they are talking about on planes, you came to the right place.


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## ftk (May 9, 2012)

Thanks for the info so far!

Throat looks good, no cracks or anything. Doesn't look like it has been repaired anywhere either. Sole is definitely not flat...I have been sanding for the past 2 hours (2:15 to be exact) and it still not perfect -- it's almost perfect but not quite. Will probably need another good 30 mins or so, but the wife is telling me its bed time :thumbdown:

Guess I'll have to finish tomorrow.

Tried to sharpen the blade a bit as well, working ok. Have a cheap stanley sharpening jig to get the angle right, it came with oil stones but they don't work so well. Finest sand paper I have is 600 grit, but it just doesnt seem to be getting the blade very sharp at all...I think I will have to mail order some finer grade.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I like the scary sharp method using fine sandpaper on glass but stones work well for some also. Do an online search for "scary sharp method", it is also the cheapest way to sharpen as you can get water sandpaper at any auto parts store.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I use the "scary sharp" method and normally do not go beyond 600 grit.

You need to start with coarser grit. How coarse depends on whether removing dings (100 grit) or just dull (maybe 120 - 150 grit).

I use wet-dry paper with a granite block instead of the plate glass mentioned in the scary sharp link. I bought my block from Grizzly, but Woodcraft now sell small ones.

With the wet-dry you will get a feel for when a given grit has done its job and time to go to the next higher grit.

You can get very fine grits in wet-dry 1500+. At some point the discussion becomes whether sharpening or polishing. In the hand plane world, this is almost a question to start a bar fight.


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## ftk (May 9, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> I use the "scary sharp" method and normally do not go beyond 600 grit.
> 
> You need to start with coarser grit. How coarse depends on whether removing dings (100 grit) or just dull (maybe 120 - 150 grit).
> 
> ...


Do you use water with the wet-dry paper or do you leave it dry?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I find wet-dry paper works best with a fluid. I use water when sharpening since I know I will dry this before use.

The fluid helps to build up a slurry and this is what you will feel to determine when to move to the higher grit.

Now and again I get rust spots on my iron surfaces. I sometimes use Autosol to remove, sometimes 600 grit wet-dry with oil. This way I know I am not leaving any moisture behind. Few seconds and the rust spot is removed.


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## ftk (May 9, 2012)

So it's been another busy night. I got the sole as flat as I am going to get it for today (will give it another pass this weekend), honed the crap out of the blade, and managed to get everything back together without any pieces left over 

You can see that the evaporust really worked wonders.

I have a couple more questions, for example what is a good distance for the tip of the lever cap to be from the edge of the blade? I went with 3/32" because it felt right...

Couple of pictures:
The handle was broken in half, but some titebond II over night and it is rock solid today.









The throat looks to be in pretty good shape.









The sole before









Sole after a bit on 120 grit paper. Got a ways to go still...









The sole after giving up last night after over 2 hours of flattening:


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## ftk (May 9, 2012)

Here is the sole after tonight. The 80 grit paper really helped make progress at first, ended up going through four sheets of it, too...










Gave the blade my attempt at the scary sharp method. First I flattened the back, then I learned to never take shortcuts: used an uneven surface "just real quick" to hold some paper half way through getting the edge square and rounded a corner.  Anyway, that gave me something to think about while taking off another 1/8" of steel. Started out with 80 grit, and went over the 2, 3 and 4 hundreds, then 600, 800, 1000, and ended on 1500. 600+ were wet-dry and I used some WD-40 to get a slurry going. The blade is really scary sharp -- can't wait to use this method on my chisels! The wife didn't believe how sharp it was so I shaved a bit of my arm :icon_cool:









Got a nice mirror effect to it










Now I put the lever cap about 3/32" from the edge of the blade. Is that about right? Seemed like a good distance to me.


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## ftk (May 9, 2012)

Here is a shot of everything assembled:










And here is the blade in the throat. Is there enough clearance?










Here is the frog at the throat. Is that in the right position or does it need to be moved forward or back further?










My first shavings ever :thumbsup:. After a little bit of skipping I got the hang of it pretty well and it went real smooth:









Now I need to get a book on planes! Any advice on good ones?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> I use the "scary sharp" method and normally do not go beyond 600 grit.


 600x? I wouldn't consider irons sharp at 600x. I'm sure it 'feels' sharp and could cut your skin but that's simply not "scary sharp".




Dave Paine said:


> With the wet-dry you will get a feel for when a given grit has done its job and time to go to the next higher grit.


 True!



Dave Paine said:


> You can get very fine grits in wet-dry 1500+. At some point the discussion becomes whether sharpening or polishing. In the hand plane world, this is almost a question to start a bar fight.


Polishing is sharpening. That's why we use "polishing" compounds to strop. The finer the termination into nothingness the edge is, is not the only factor of sharpness. BURS have a large role in how well a plane iron cuts as well.

Higher grit (2500-4000x) means a thinner edge, less burs = "polished" = SCARY sharp. By stropping we can also remove a goodly amount of those burs (or wire edge) and polish it the edge further.

After a good sharpening routine the iron is easier to maintain. It can be stropped a few times before it has to be sharpened again and the micro bevel can be started at around 1000x when it does need honing. 

You will also find some improvement with the iron producing a micro-bevel on the iron. All this is is a steeper honing angle at the edge of the iron. Make for a bit more durable edge as well.

Good luck.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

A book which was recommended on another site is "Planecraft" by G.W. Hampton and E.Clifford. Sub title "Hand planing by modern methods".

I bought mine from Woodcraft. I read that it is out of print. It was reprinted by Woodcraft.

The authors used to work for the old Record company. First published in 1934.

This is a well written book. Lots of useful information.

The section on plane adjustment has the following recommendations for the distance of the cap iron from the edge of the blade.

For rough work, cap iron 1/32in to 1/16in from edge of blade.

For finishing work, cap iron 1/64in from edge of blade.

For hard woods with irregular grain - as close as you can get it to the cutting edge.

In another site's Hand Tools forum there was a thread on some recent research in Japan where they measured the distance of the cap iron from the edge and also the angle of the cap iron. The research showed both of these details can affect the efficiency of the cut.

I think you should continue using you plane and will get your own feeling for what works.

You asked about the frog position. This is used to alter the position of the blade in the throat. You can only go back until the blade touches. Normally you go forward to adjust the blade position to determine the thickness of the shaving.

I normally set the blade forward to minimize the shaving thickness. 

It looks like your first test was pine. With pine, it is easy to cut thick shavings. With hard woods, not so easy. So to save elbow grease it can be easier to set for thin shavings.

I forgot to say, good job with the cleaning and restoration. I hope the glue repair on the tote holds up. Be prepared that if it broke once, it could break again. It is not difficult to find replacements.


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## ftk (May 9, 2012)

Thanks for the tips Dave -- I will play around with different settings tonight. I have some hardwood scraps I'll give a try.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Here is a repair I made to the tote of one of my planes. I didn't have rosewood, so I used a scrap of walnut.


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## Tools (May 30, 2012)

FTK- you're on the right track with that plane.

As far as sole lapping, there does come a point where it gets totally academic, obsessive, theoretical with no practical effect. I mean, as much as it's killing a sacred cow to say this, some of the finest planework ever done was accomplished with planes that weren't within a million miles of being lapped perfectly flat. 

That said, it's something most do just because we can, myself included.

Bravo in undertaking what appears to be a well done rehabilitation. At this point, you can now decide if you want to move onto a 'restoration' or not. Personally speaking, as someone who's 100% tool user 0% tool collector (and a staunchly practically minded sort of dude in general) polishing all the bare metal surfaces to a mirror sheen seems absurd, but some people are just that way and they do it for their own enjoyment. They also polish hatchets, hammers, screwdrivers, etc... :laughing:


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## ftk (May 9, 2012)

Tools - I agree on the sole lapping, it appears to be in pretty good working order at this point. Not sure about full-blown restoration, at this point I am just really happy to use it. Though I think I will sand and refinish the handles eventually (rainy day project).

After only one night going back to the regular shelving project I am working on I have no idea how I ever managed to get by without a plane. I had cross cut some panels on the miter saw, had to flip them half way through to get the whole width cut. Cuts were within a 32nd of an inch, not quite perfect. Wasn't really looking forward to sanding the ends flat. The plane made really short work of this and I am stoked. Can think of a million more uses. What an awesome tool.


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