# Bailey No. 7



## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Well I would not call it a score, but I picked up the plane at a flee market today for $20. I think you guys gave me the bug. I have a 3 no. 4's and a few no. 5's as well as a no.6 so I thought the no. 7 would be a good addition. Oh, none have been rebuilt.

Once I got it home I took the pictures then disassembled the plane. After it was taken apart I thought I'd go pick up some of that rust remover that everyone is talking about. I picked up a quart at HF and used one of my many 20% coupons. The part's are now soaking.

I ended up bead blasting the base and took the rest of the japanning off.

Anyway, here are a few pictures of the new acquisition. 

Paul


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Thought I'd add one more picture with the pattern dates.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I feel a No. 7 for $20 is a good deal.

My own user No. 7 is also corrugated sole. I prefer a flat sole, only because my aging eyes find it easier to sight on a flat sole than a corrugated sole.

I love the as purchased picture showing the tote with the top broken off and a break which someone attempted to fix with electrical tape.

The blade looks like it has been sharpened beyond the laminated heat treated strip. This just means it will dull faster.

This should be a good user plane after your restoration.

Evapo-Rust works very well. Removes the rust and does not harm the metal.


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## cms1983 (Apr 25, 2012)

It's getting harder to find sizes like that at a good price. It is a good deal man.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Your #7 appears to be a Type 11 by the photos, and for 20, congrats.
Very good deal to me.

Thanks for the photos also...love seeing someone else, do a restore.

Working on a #7 myself right now..so I will be following this one with special interest no doubt.

Again...did well..:thumbsup:


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks for the input. I guess the woodworkers that these planes were made for had small hands. When it was still in on piece I noticed that the tote was a little small for my hand.

I may want to make a new tote and also turn a new brass adjustment nut. The has a very sloppy fit (it wobbles), so a new one may be in order.

I looked a few pieces of the soaking parts the Evapo-rust seems to be working real good.

Paul


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Fastback said:


> I guess the woodworkers that these planes were made for had small hands. When it was still in on piece I noticed that the tote was a little small for my hand.
> 
> I may want to make a new tote and also turn a new brass adjustment nut. The has a very sloppy fit (it wobbles), so a new one may be in order.


Before you make a bigger tote, be aware you will be constrained by the distance between the top of the tote and the lateral adjustment lever. You may be able to make one a little longer, but not much. If the tote is longer you will need a deeper hole for the nut. Test for fit with the rough cut out before you spend a lot of time on the shaping.

Before you make another adjustment wheel, I would confirm if the slop is the brass wheel or the steel screw. Try this wheel on another plane and visa versa.

FYI this site has the specifications of the hardware. A Record hand plane site, but the only place I have found so far which shows the thread/size specifications. The old Record company followed the Stanley specifications.

http://www.recordhandplanes.com/parts-and-sizes.html


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks Dave, I wasn't planning on making a larger tote just a replacement. I did take note that the size needed to stay the same. 

As for the brass nut I believe the wear is in the nut being as it is the softer metal. I'll check the pitch next time I work on the plane. As you know it is a revers thread. Right now I'm guess but I think it may be around 1/4 - 28. I do have the equipment of the job if need be.

Here is a picture.

Paul


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Fastback said:


> As for the brass nut I believe the wear is in the nut being as it is the softer metal. I'll check the pitch next time I work on the plane. As you know it is a revers thread. Right now I'm guess but I think it may be around 1/4 - 28. I do have the equipment of the job if need be.
> 
> Here is a picture.


The Record site link says it is 9/32in dia and 28 tpi LH thread.

I would have SB lathe envy if I were not due to get my own 10L later in the week. :yes:

Mine is with the metal bench. Early 70's vintage. Not ready for cutting threads yet. I am in search of a thread dial.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Dave Paine said:


> The Record site link says it is 9/32in dia and 28 tpi LH thread.


Looks like 9/32-24 tpi.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

MarkE said:


> Looks like 9/32-24 tpi.


Yes, must have been a brain fart or slip due to reading Fastback comment on 28 tpi. :icon_smile:


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## cms1983 (Apr 25, 2012)

Wasn't the tote missing the top horn that would make it seem small


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## cms1983 (Apr 25, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> The Record site link says it is 9/32in dia and 28 tpi LH thread.
> 
> I would have SB lathe envy if I were not due to get my own 10L later in the week. :yes:
> 
> Mine is with the metal bench. Early 70's vintage. Not ready for cutting threads yet. I am in search of a thread dial.



Love those lathes got a 1939 9" southbend. Yours a heavy ten?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

cms83 said:


> Love those lathes got a 1939 9" southbend. Yours a heavy ten?


Yes. I am looking forward to a new learning curve. First thing will be cleaning the machine. Too much excess grease and oil in places, like on the flat belt. No surprise it slips. :icon_smile:


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Mine is a Heavy Ten built in 1942. Dave, I didn't have a thread dial when I got mine either. I was able to fit a dial gage from a 9-inch. I bought mine at toolsforcheap, Jeff is the owner. BTW, you can thread with out a dial you just need to leave the half nuts engaged until the job is done. This not too bad if you have a motor that reverses, if not, you have to crank it back by hand. 

The 10L is not my only lathe I also have a Southbend 9B and an Atlas 6-inch. The 10 is my favorite its a tool room version with a taper attachment.

Paul


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## Brian Wilson (Jan 19, 2014)

Fastback said:


> Well I would not call it a score, but I picked up the plane at a flee market today for $20. I think you guys gave me the bug. I have a 3 no. 4's and a few no. 5's as well as a no.6 so I thought the no. 7 would be a good addition. Oh, none have been rebuilt.
> 
> Once I got it home I took the pictures then disassembled the plane. After it was taken apart I thought I'd go pick up some of that rust remover that everyone is talking about. I picked up a quart at HF and used one of my many 20% coupons. The part's are now soaking.
> 
> ...


I just picked up a type 11c like that for 30.00 with no lever cap/chip breaker. I thought mine was a good deal but yours was REAL good.
mine now sports a type 13 lever and new chip breaker but i'm not concerned with period correct parts as it's never going to leave my tool box.


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## cms1983 (Apr 25, 2012)

They are nice machines. Didn't the owners of southbend use to work for stanley right?mine is 9c I think. no quick change gear box engine lathe. Mine came with a lot of stuff but it came with a headstock chuck I never herd of such a thing. U know like a tail stock chuck but with threads to go on my headstock. Haven a lathe is great I've made a few parts for my old wood working tools. Also have 30's buffalo forge DP and delta slo speed DP from the 20's round base. Sorry I know off topic but hey they are cool machines what can I say


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

CMS83, I also have the drill bit chuck for the head stock on my 9B. I'm not sure but I think they used it when they were grinding valves of on armature work. I could be wrong. I don't think I ever heard the Stanley story. I do know that there were 2 brothers that started Southbend.

I know we sidetracked a little, but these are tools used for the rebuild we all love.

Paul


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## cms1983 (Apr 25, 2012)

That makes sense that chuck is big as hell to. Check this out. Great site if you never been there. Found it interesting http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1617


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## Jim Harvey (Jan 26, 2008)

*New tote handle*

I may want to make a new tote and also turn a new brass adjustment nut. The has a very sloppy fit (it wobbles), so a new one may be in order.

Lee valley has nice patterns for plane totes you can download.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=63262

Some I made:
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/wb8nbs/6104211241/

Stanley is famous for using unusual thread pitches in their products.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

wb8nbs said:


> Stanley is famous for using unusual thread pitches in their products.


If you look at the history of the development of the Stanley planes I think you will find Stanley used one of the few standards of thread hardware which existed in the middle of the 19th century, namely the BS Whitworth standard. At that time the US did not have widely agreed upon thread standards. Not common today, but back in the middle of the 19th century it was a widely available standard and likely seen in most hardware stores.

The fact that it is no longer common does not make it "unusual", rather not the standard of today.


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## cms1983 (Apr 25, 2012)

Around the late 40's The planes with blue japanning seem to be 1/4 20 everything before that they used there own thread size. I have matched the size and got close to the pitch but not close enough.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

I thought I would show an update of my N0. 7. I don't have a lot to do in order to finish I only need to make a new tote, sharpen the blade and check the chip breaker for fit. 

As you can see in the pictures I ended out making a new adjustment nut. I had to make a small threading bar up. The hole was a bit on the small side and took a number F drill bit. The thread pitch was a reverse 24 threads per inch.

I used wb8nbs' advice and downloaded the tote plan from Lie Valley. I even went to Woodcraft and purchased a hunk (2 x 6 x 6) of Rose wood. I just de-waxed and thought I'd let it acclimate.

Enjoy,

Paul


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

That is an awesome machining job Paul!


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks Joe, the hardest part was the threading. It's such a small hole to work in. So now I'm thinking about making a tap so that I can do this more quickly and easily. Never made one before, but I do have some A-2 steel around that would most likely work especially since I'm only working with brass.


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## Jim Harvey (Jan 26, 2008)

*Left handed tap*



Fastback said:


> Thanks Joe, the hardest part was the threading. It's such a small hole to work in. So now I'm thinking about making a tap so that I can do this more quickly and easily. Never made one before, but I do have some A-2 steel around that would most likely work especially since I'm only working with brass.


Maybe you could just get the screw part from a donor plane, groove and harden it to make a tap. 

Your brass knob is beautiful. You might be able to sell them.

When I was in college, I set a left handed bolt and nut on the desk. My roommate (Mechanical Engineer no less) spent about 15 minutes fiddling with it wondering why the nut wouldn't screw on. I had to show him.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

"Maybe you could just get the screw part from a donor plane, groove and harden it to make a tap. 

Your brass knob is beautiful. You might be able to sell them.
When I was in college, I set a left handed bolt and nut on the desk. My roommate (Mechanical Engineer no less) spent about 15 minutes fiddling with it wondering why the nut wouldn't screw on. I had to show him." 

Good idea, except I don't have a donor and secondly it would depend on whether it is high carbon steel if it can be hardened or not, for me it would be just as easy to make my own.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

So today I spent some time in the shop working on the new tote. I think I mentioned that I bought a piece of Rosewood from Woodcraft. I is a 2 x 6 x 6. I cut it into 2 pieces 1 inch thick and 4 1/2 x 4 3/4. I used a pattern from Lie Nelson.

What you see in the pictures is how I did the layout and drilled the needed holes. You'll note that I cheated and used my Bridgeport to drill the holes. The BP quill has a stroke of 5 inches so I used a extra long drill. It was easy to get center with an edge finder. At this point the new tote has been roughed out. I used some draw planes and wood raps as well as a few metal files to get the form. At this point I have started some rough sanding.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Well I finally finished the planer. I may decide to make a new front handle for a color match, I may..

There are a few thing I would change like the paint. I think the engine semi-gloss would hold up better (thanks for the idea Acoyboy) I also think I will look into the tru-oil as David uses I like the shine. I also have a bunch of cherry that would work well and best of all it was a tree I cut down in the backyard. It's been air drying since 2011.

Other than that I think it came out OK. I have about 10 more No.4 through No.6 ahead of me to do. I'll probably start this week.

Paul


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Nice..!..real nice.

In the use of engine enamel..been using the gloss followed up by a little 0000 steel wool to knock off the sheen somewhat..gets real close to the original japanning look.

Cant wait to see more of your work..again look great..:thumbsup:


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

I know I'm late to this party, but $20 for a type 11 #7 is a great price.

Nice restoration


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