# Guitar Finish Experimentation



## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

Here's a sample I did on some black walnut. What do you think?

Started with a piece of raw walnut, sanded to 400. 









From there, I added an ebonizing solution. This is made by soaking a steel wool pad in vingar for a few days. Simply brush on and watch it turn black. Note the sapwood stripe at the bottom. It does not take the ebonizer as well. 









For some color, I added a coat of chrome yellow lacquer, then sanded, leaving color only in the pores. 

















Some clear coat and done. 

















A pretty simple contrasting grain process. Not difficult to do and it yields some striking results. 

EG


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## RDufner (Jun 23, 2011)

i have to try this! it looks awesome. I think the wife might even like this one. will this work as well with other types of wood???
that would look great as a guitar finish. can't wait to see this one. Very impressive technique. I am stealing this one for the tool bag.


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## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

Well, the ebonizing process I used here only works on a few woods. Walnut, oak and maybe cherry. 
Any wood with deep pores you could do this with black stain or paint. 

Collings does the doghair finish with a coat of black paint followed by a white grain filler. 
Epiphone had a similar finish called silver fox in the 60's. 
Both done on mahogany with lacquer. 

Collings Doghair











Epiphone silver fox











Those were kinda my inspiration. 

EG


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## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

I wonder if Collings puts down a seal coat or if they spray the black right on the wood. 
I used yellow paint because I didn't have a suitable grain filler. If I did it for real on a guitar, I'd do the yellow grain fill method and not paint. I was just experimenting with what I had on hand. 

EG


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## RDufner (Jun 23, 2011)

i thought that the paint looked pretty good. I like the yellow in the grain. do you think that rattle can paint would work the same??


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## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

I just used minwax brushing lacquer with yellow dye mixed in. Super cheap. 
You could spray any color combo you wanted. Red/blue, pink/purple, whatever. 

I have some others I did with other colors, but I liked the yellow best. 
Red might look cool. 

EG


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## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

Think of a piece of ash with a real dramatic pattern on it. It's a light colored wood, you could use any two colors you wanted. 

Or even leave the center unfilled and do a burst with it. That might be neat. 

EG


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## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

Yeah. Check this out. White filler on black ash. 










EG


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## RDufner (Jun 23, 2011)

what about a reverse burst?? just thinkin out loud


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## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

Stripes. 

EG


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

hmm... ebonizing... i think i'll google this a bit tonight...
thanks for the info!


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## RDufner (Jun 23, 2011)

what finish do they use to achieve the black ash??


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## H. A. S. (Sep 23, 2010)

Elias Graves said:


> Yeah. Check this out. White filler on black ash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Beautimous! Are you also building these 5 string basses for sale?


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## Elias Graves (Mar 14, 2011)

H. A. S. said:


> Beautimous! Are you also building these 5 string basses for sale?


No, I don't sell anything. Some pic I found with google. 
I have a tele being made for me right now that's walnut. It'll come to me in bare wood. I've been experimenting with samples from the same lumber to decide how I want to finish it. 


I'd guess they just sprayed the ash with black paint then a white filler. Couldn't say for sure, but that's what it looks like. 

EG


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

This concept has been around for along time as far back as the early 20's of last century in Europe and long before that in other countries. It is considered very artistic when done appropriately. 

For appropriate or proper use, the wood of choice [an open grained species] is first leveled absolutely flat as glass, and then wire brushed, using brass brush, "with the grain"/one direction only] till all of the residual matter in the pores are removed. 

After this, one final sand with the last grit used and then compressed air to re-clear out the pores, it's ready for the finishing steps. 

It is then treated with a saturated solution of tannic acid. This is the acid that is in most hardwoods to differing degrees but not consistent, the saturated solution will uniform the acid content all over the surfaces. This will also increase the darkness of even the sap woods when the chemical stain is applied. 

Then, if desired, the ferrous acetate can be applied as you did. or other better and blacker/darker mordanting chemicals and natural dyes can be used. That is up to individual taste. 

When the chemical treatment is complete and thoroughly dry, "then" a 1/2 to 1 lb cut of shellac or a thin coat of lacquer/acrylic/etc, is applied, this should not be applied heavily so that the edges of the wood pores do not get fat or rounded. they should stay sharp and crisp. 

The next step is the filler, since the wood is now glass smooth and "all" the pores are perfectly opened up and cleaned of debris, the filler will now take evenly and uniformly, meaning that Every pore will be accentuated evenly. there will be no blotchy areas of any kind visible, as with your sample. the proper fillers are these, plaster of Paris with 1% acetic acid added for delaying the drying and the desired coloring dry powders added to gain the color wanted. 2) Silex filler made with fresh linseed oil [boiled/metallized-cobalt and magnesium and aluminum] added and as many lbs. of silex to make a med thick paste, then the desired colors in oil to taste or specified by client. 3) acrylic paste from art store also colorized to desire and applied let dry and sanded off. 

I personally prefer the silex base and here's why. The BLO will swell as it dries and will assure full filling of the pores. The others will to if very careful but are much more and meticulous work. The silex filler will leave a slight film which also will have to be removed before proceeding further, should be dry in 72 hours depending on temp and humidity. The filler is applied just as ordinary pastewood grain filler is also.

from here on out it is a matter of applying the clear-coats, as many as wished or needed. More info if needed, just ask OK?

Sincerely,

Chemmy.


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## 3fingers (Dec 7, 2011)

I did a similar thing to lacewood about 4 years ago I used black trans tint then made a grain filler with silver leaf powder


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

the closest to what i see on here as to what the orginal finishes looked like, is the black and white grained guitar. and even then there is a slight milkyness to the black that comes from fully not removing the white film on the surface.


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## Longhair (Dec 14, 2012)

Is it safe to use a black water based dye and a white water based filler? I'm thinking that the black would bleed into the white because they are both water based.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Yes you could use water based dye for the black but I wouldn't use the white water based filler. I didn't bother reading what other said on this old post. If I were finishing a guitar like this I would use a alcohol based dye or an oil based enamel and thin it a little and after applying it wipe the excess off so it works as a stain. Then I would seal the black with a coat of a non-yellowing clear coat. Then I would apply a white glaze over the top and wipe off the excess which would leave white in the grain. When that is dry I would finish the clear coating. Its important to use a non-yellowing clearcoating because of how it would affect the white and black. Over time the white would start looking cream colored and if it was a blue based black and the clearcoat yellowed it would gradually turn green. Sherwin Williams sells a McCloskey glaze you could use for this purpose. You might use a precat lacquer for the finish or a water based polyurethane for the clear coat. Just let the oil base paint thoroughly dry before topcoating. The linseed oil in the paint can have a adverse reaction with lacquer and water based poly might not bond well if not dry.


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