# No 4 planes



## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi all, i was very nicely given these 2 no 4 planes today. Was just wondering if any body could shed a little light on them for me. One obviously is a stanley, the other has no obvious marks that i can see. Any tips on cleaning them up? And what is a no 4 used for? 

Chris.


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## fareastern (Sep 19, 2014)

I use wire wool and WD40 to remove rust.Once thats done,just sharpen them and you will be amazed at how versatile they are.In my view the most useful of all planes.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

A no 4 is typically used for final smoothing. It's short sole and narrow body make it very difficult to use for flattening or edge jointing, as it can more easily follow the undulations in a boards surface instead of cutting them down. 

That rusty one with no markings looks like it is an older Stanley Bailey, think like late 1800's - early 1900's. Just a guess though as the picture isn't the best for identification...


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Thanks, is this a better pic for identification?


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Or this.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Yeah I'd bet money that's a Stanley. This link will help you "type" & date the plane, using a flow chart to compare certain features that changed over time. 

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/start_flowchart.php


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Thats brilliant, thanks.


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

I'm not at all convinced that your mystery plane's a Stanley

The first "type" to feature a lateral adjust'g lever is a Type 5 (about 1885-88) and by that time the planes model number is cast into the toe of the bed on a number four.

Yet by your own description, there are no markings on that plane, correct?


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Sorry, to confirm. There only markings i can see on it are 'No 4' cast at the front of the plane. I guess that would be the toe.


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Having run through everything on the link that BZawat posted earlier, it would seem to be as you say, the type 5 made between 1885 and 1888. Which is nice if it is.


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Been reading up on rust removal and stuff. Mostly it would appear that vinegar and salt is the place to start. Anybody know if this would effect the wooden parts? Should i take these off before putting it in such a solution?


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## asevereid (Apr 15, 2012)

Whatever they prove to be, enjoy them and congrats on the good score.
Post up pics after you've got them user ready :thumbsup:


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

asevereid said:


> Whatever they prove to be, enjoy them and congrats on the good score.
> Post up pics after you've got them user ready :thumbsup:


Will do. Thanks.


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Well i have dismantled one, anybody have any ideas how to deal with the incredibly stubborn screw head thing in the blade?


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

chrishop said:


> Been reading up on rust removal and stuff. Mostly it would appear that vinegar and salt is the place to start. Anybody know if this would effect the wooden parts? Should i take these off before putting it in such a solution?


Hold the salt!

Your choices are: citric acid, vinegar, Evaporust, Naval Jelly or Electrolysis.
YES - absolutely take the wood parts off first.

The web is filled with tutorials on plane rehabbing. THIS one's as good as any, and better than most.

Rusted parts should be liberally soaked with oil. BE PATIENT!
Hurrying things results in broken parts.


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

Thankyou john. Wise counsel.


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## asevereid (Apr 15, 2012)

chrishop said:


> Well i have dismantled one, anybody have any ideas how to deal with the incredibly stubborn screw head thing in the blade?



Are you talking about the large headed flathead screw that connects the cap iron to the plane iron?

Contrary to what anyone may say here...if I'm doing a restoration on a plane I'll just use the lever cap edge to unscrew it :laughing:
Hey, it fits, right?

But if it's really stuck I'll spray it with WD-40 and let it sit a while and then use a screwdriver to properly get it loosened.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

You have one no 4. I think the other one is a copy. Here are some pictures of my no4. I took mine apart and sandblasted it.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I also have a copy of a no4. Here are some pictures of it.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Judging by the disassembled pic u posted, that's not a type 5. Type 5 would not have a disc-type lateral adjuster, but one that looks like this








You have a type 6 or 7 I think. But it's definitely a Stanley


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Check the brass depth adjustment wheel. If it has patent info incised into it, it's a type 6 or 7. If it doesn't, it's a type 8. Type 9 has a different frog style, so it's definitely earlier than that.


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## BigBadBuford (Jan 13, 2012)

If the cap iron screw is really stuck and you can't turn it with a screwdriver you can put it in a vise and use a brace with a screwdriver bit. This gives you a lot more torque than you can get with a screwdriver.. I've had to do this on some old coffin style smoothers that were rusted together pretty well.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> I also have a copy of a no4. Here are some pictures of it.
> View attachment 125353
> View attachment 125361
> View attachment 125369
> ...



That's a Sargent made #409. http://www.timetestedtools.com/typing-sargent-bench-planes.html


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

BigBadBuford said:


> If the cap iron screw is really stuck and you can't turn it with a screwdriver you can put it in a vise and use a brace with a screwdriver bit. This gives you a lot more torque than you can get with a screwdriver.. I've had to do this on some old coffin style smoothers that were rusted together pretty well.



Put the screw in the vice and turn the blade. It works much better.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

chrishop said:


> Well i have dismantled one, anybody have any ideas how to deal with the incredibly stubborn screw head thing in the blade?


This is probably a type 6, http://www.timetestedtools.com/stanley-type-6.html


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## chrishop (Jan 24, 2015)

So the clean up is going well:










Found some writing under the rust:










and some more:


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

+timetestedtools
Should point out, most type study's are just guides, Stanley and other plane makers did use up there old inventory of parts on there next design, where it was applicable.


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