# Jointer: Helical Head or Straight Knife??



## mesarber (Oct 16, 2011)

Well its time to upgrade the shop, and I mean UPGRADE! I currently have a Craftsman 4" table top jointer. It works, but the bed is only about 28" long, and I want to upgrade to a longer bed and wider cutterhead. I am going back and forth on the straight-knife or helical cutterhead.

I upgraded my planer a while ago, and went with the Powermatic 209HH, which as the name suggests has a helical head. Now I love the planer, and the helical head works great on all types of wood, including birdseye maple and other figured woods.

My question revolves around a new jointer purchase. *I am looking at a couple models and was wondering if the helical head on the jointer is worth it, or should i stick with the straight knife for the jointer.

*I am looking at these models:

Laguna MJOIN8020-0130
http://www.lagunatools.com/jointer-platinum8p

Powermatic PJ-882HH 
http://www.powermatic.com/Products.aspx?Part=1610082&cat=332160

Powermatic PJ-882
http://www.powermatic.com/Products.aspx?Part=1610079&cat=332160

General International 80-225HC M1 (not too sure of this one)
http://www.general.ca/site_general/g_produits/jointer/80-225hc.html


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

if you love the planer, you'll love the (hh) jointer.


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## tito5 (Apr 5, 2011)

for the uneducated around here what is the difference between the HH cutter and the knife system? pros and cons of each?


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Personally, if I was going to replace my jointer and could afford to have anyone I wanted, it would definately be the helical head over the straight knives!


As to the differences, a straight knife jointer or planer has 2 or 3 knives that run the length of the cutter head. A helical head has multiple knives that typically run in a spiraling pattern (my planer has 26 knives or inserts) They are much more quit than a stright knife planer. The inserts are sharpened on either 2 or 4 sides depending on manufacturer so you can just turn them rather than sharpening or replacing them. They also offer the advantage of just flipping one or two if you get a knick rather than replacing an entire knive. You can cut just about any type of wood and not have to worry about excessive tear out like you would with a regular planer and IMO, they just make a much better cut. Also, it just makes little wood chips that dosnt clog up my dust collection system like the large spiral shavings a regular planer makes. When you change the inserts, they are all indexed to a specific place so there is no adjusting or special tools required to set it up. Just take out the screw, put in a new insert and put the screw back!


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

tito5 said:


> for the uneducated around here what is the difference between the HH cutter and the knife system? pros and cons of each?



Helicals are better for figured/wild grain.

Knives are better for straight grain. :smile:


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## mesarber (Oct 16, 2011)

Tito5,

The difference is only in the cutterhead, all the other pieces are the same. 
Helical: The helical cutterhead is a head with machined screw holes that wrap around the head. The holes hold small, 3/4" x 3/4" carbide inserts. The head will have a varying number of inserts, depending on the length of the head. Depending on the quality of the head, the cutters may me arranged in a shearing pattern that serves to sever the wood fiber, instead of "chop" the fibers as conventional and cheaper helical head do. 
Pros: a. better cutting on figured woods, b. MUCH EASIER set up time due to the fact you do not have to set knives, and c. less noise, to name a couple. 
Cons: Price, a Byrd head such as the one below adds about $1000 dollars to a planer and a little less to a jointer. There are probably more, but I don't know of them.

Conventional Cutterhead: This head has been tried and tested. Instead of having many inserts, there are two, three, or four straight knives that slide into a slot in the head and lock in. These knives "chop" the wood fibers and take off the material.

Pros: its been around for a while, cheaper, again there are more but I do not know them.
Cons: supposedly more tear-out, harder to set/adjust the knives, more sharpening due to the fact the knife can chip and cause a little ridge on the wood.

There is more information here: 
http://www.workshopaholic.net/articles/helical-vs-straight.html


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## mesarber (Oct 16, 2011)

Bassblaster,

Does your planer create small indents, that run parallel with the cutter head, when planing softer wood like pine or ceder? This is one of my major concerns with the jointer.


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## tito5 (Apr 5, 2011)

well that was quick and informative.....now someone get on here and answer the op questions before I thread-jacked it......


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## mesarber (Oct 16, 2011)

well that was quick and informative.....now someone get on here and answer the op questions before I thread-jacked it......


I always appreciate people responding to me, so I think I should at least do the same for others.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

mesarber said:


> Bassblaster,
> 
> Does your planer create small indents, that run parallel with the cutter head, when planing softer wood like pine or ceder? This is one of my major concerns with the jointer.


 No indents. It does leave some very light lines that look kinda like scratches except they are perfectly straight. Its nothing you can feel in the wood but you can see it. Some very light sanding removes them without problem. I dont really view it as a negative since every piece is going to be sanded anyhow and it really dosnt require any extra effert to remove them. My planer still hasnt been used much so I'm not sure if thats something that will go away with time or not. Again, for me, its not a big deal. I love my planer!!


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

mesarber said:


> Bassblaster,
> 
> Does your planer create small indents, that run parallel with the cutter head, when planing softer wood like pine or ceder? This is one of my major concerns with the jointer.



My old planer, if the infeed roller, pressure isn't set right, on light cuts, it will leave indentation marks from the serrated infeed roller. 

My .02 on spiral head for a jointer. I usually joint one surface, then procede to plane to thickness. Getting down to my desired thickness, usually takes a few passes. I flip the board for each cut, for moisture/warping reasons, and these passes after the jointer, would leave the desired finish. I think the knives that do the final cutting are the most important.

Saying that, My straight knife, jointer, and planer get me by, for what I do


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

I have heard MANY bad things about Laguna lack of Customer Service. DUNNO about their jointers but the Laguna band saw that I have used, IMHO, would better serve as a boat anchor.

As for helical head jointers... I have a Grizzly jointer / planer combination machine. It is a fine machine. If I were you, I would consider Grizzly.

General makes a good line of tools.

The 882HH has what appears to be a Byrd cutter head. Probably the best helical cutter head on the market. The cost of the 882HH is about what I paid for my 12" J/P from Grizzly.


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## mesarber (Oct 16, 2011)

Pirate said:


> My old planer, if the infeed roller, pressure isn't set right, on light cuts, it will leave indentation marks from the serrated infeed roller.


Both of those comments sound exactly like what I get on light cuts, and mostly only in soft wood. Nevertheless, your adjustment of the in-feed roller fixed the indentation problem on light cuts?

I only ask because the indentations were one of the main reasons I was considering not getting the helical head, but if the in-feed roller is the cause, then obviously a jointer will not have that problem.


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## mesarber (Oct 16, 2011)

rrich said:


> I have heard MANY bad things about Laguna lack of Customer Service. DUNNO about their jointers but the Laguna band saw that I have used, IMHO, would better serve as a boat anchor.
> 
> As for helical head jointers... I have a Grizzly jointer / planer combination machine. It is a fine machine. If I were you, I would consider Grizzly.


Your comment is GREATLY appreciated, because I was seriously considering the Laguna jointer, and looking at their bandsaws for future purposes. Their line of tools _looks_ nice, but if they don't have good customer service, and bandsaws aren't worth it I will reconsider my choice. I HATE poor customer service! :furious:

I will also look into Griz. I have never had one of their tools, and to be honest I was a little skeptical of their line of tools. But again I will look into the tools and try to get a hands on evaluation of Griz before I make my decision. I guess I only lean towards Powermatic because its what I have.


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## Rlbtn4171 (Feb 11, 2011)

I just recently purchased the Grizzly G0490X Jointer with the "spiral" head. Its there version of a helical head. Nice machine. Fit and finish are good. Works good. More recently I just got the Powermatic 15HH Planer. Whole different ball game. Not that Grizzly is bad, but the whole transaction with Powermatic was great. Was shipped in excellent package, no dings scratches , nothing. Driver backed right up to my shop and set it down, then put it in the shop for me with his pallet jack.
Fit and finish is excellent on the powermatic. They cost more, but I think it is a wise investment if you are in it for the long haul.
just my 2 cents worth.


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## mesarber (Oct 16, 2011)

Rlbtn4171 said:


> I just recently purchased the Grizzly G0490X Jointer with the "spiral" head. Its there version of a helical head. Nice machine. Fit and finish are good. Works good.


Do you ever get any of the small "scratches", that were referenced earlier, from your jointer? They are just small lines that run parallel to the cutter head and perpendicular to your feed direction.

BTW, I agree the investment is worth the money in the long run. I am relatively younger (20's) and want these tools to last a long time.


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## Rlbtn4171 (Feb 11, 2011)

I can't give you a honest answer to that yet. I haven't had it long and have not run enough wood through it to give you that answer. I did run a couple boards over it just playin when setting up. I didn't notice anything then. I have read other posts regarding this issue. I will watch for it when I get into more wood and different species. 
One thing about the hh head on the planer. I read a post where someone stated you couldn't edge plane as it would turn the board over. Or I should say it wouldn't run through without falling over. I will try this sometime. I am curious now. 
Good luck on your purchase. 
I am really happy with the fit and finish of the powermatic. It is a nice piece of equipment. I will look a lot harder at them for further purchases. I am in the market for a bandsaw. Like the looks of laguna but have heard too much negativity about ordering and getting banged up product and not so good customer service.


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