# New fangled bench build



## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

This will be my thread documenting the build of my next and hopefully last bench. I will post lots of pics, and ask questions as I go.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm looking forward to this thread! I thought about building one of these, and took some ideas from it, but ended up building something very different.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

i feel like the base is the weakest link in the whole bench, so that is the part where mine will be different. it will still look similar, but they will be much beefier and sturdy.

i am also thinking i will use 2x3s face-glued together. i will rip 1/4" off each side to remove the rounded edges and end up with a 2" thick top. that way, i have a beefier top and the support for the top is simply a 2x4.


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## Sarge240 (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm considering doing the same thing this weekend. The 2x3 idea is actually pretty common now from what I have read. 

I'm pricing ash today, if it comes out way over budget, I'll just use white pine, and border it with an ash skirt for my vice and durability. 

I'll be watching your build, good luck!!


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

I have been planning on a bench build for a while once I catch up on some other things, but I believe yellow pine is recommended over white pine. The latter is too soft, whereas the former will harden to fairly respectable hardness after a bit of time. This is from Chris Schwarz's book.

Around here yellow pine is less available but is not really more expensive than white pine, so you may want to look into that.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

i am going to be using douglas fir as much as i can


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Chris have you given any thought to using something wider than a 2x3 for the top, maybe a 2x10? That would be less waste with only two edges to remove and you could get 4 widths out of each board. It would also give you an extra 1/4" to your top thickness (minus blade thickness) which could be a plus or minus depending on your needs. I haven't priced anything, but that is one thing I am considering for my bench build.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

So the guy picked up my other bench tonight. Maybe I didn't ask enough for it, but the goal was to sell it quickly, and I didn't lose money on it, so it's all good.

TRC, I have given that some thought. If I thicken the top too much, then there won't be enough room in the well side walls for the holes for the front vises, so I'd have to go to a 4" well, and that would mean ripping a 2x10 or a couple of 2x6s. I think that is more work than it is worth. But I'll chew on it some more.

I used $18 of it for the lumber for the legs. I think it's hemlock fir, if that makes sense ... the stamp says "hem fir" on it. Here is the plan for the legs:


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

Having built one I was surprised at how sturdy it is. I haven't had any issues with the base.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

trc65 said:


> Chris have you given any thought to using something wider than a 2x3 for the top, maybe a 2x10? That would be less waste with only two edges to remove and you could get 4 widths out of each board. It would also give you an extra 1/4" to your top thickness (minus blade thickness) which could be a plus or minus depending on your needs. I haven't priced anything, but that is one thing I am considering for my bench build.


I can't get doug fir anyway in the 2x3s, so I think I will now be going with a 2x12 16 foot and a 2x8 8 foot sized framing lumber. That should give me enough that I can machine it as needed and glue up a solid DF top.

Now I have to decide if I should return this HEM-FIR I got for the legs. I have not cut anything yet, so that is still an option.

It has a fairly reddish tone to it, so it actualy looks similar to the DF.

But it would probably be better to stick with all the same wood, so I will probably return the HEM-FIR.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

If you are using construction lumber, then you may not have Doug Fir.

Look at the stamp and compare to this site.

DOUG FIR-L can be doug fir or larch.

HEM-FIR can be Western Hemlock or other firs.

So even if the boards all have the same stamp, they may be a mix of species.

http://www.nachi.org/lumber-grade-stamps.htm


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

dave, i am confident it is douglas fir.

they have the DF in 2x6 and larger, not 2x4 or 2x3.

if i get the 2x8 and rip it down the middle, i can get 2 pieces 3 1/2" wide, to make my own 2x4s for the legs.

i need 3 2x4s for each leg assembly. if i get 2 2x4s out of one 2x8, then i need 3 2x8s for the legs.

so the question is, should i or should i not return the hem-fir i bought for the legs and get 3 pieces of 2x8 douglas fir?

i think i probably should. yes or no?


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Chris, I honestly don't know if it will really make a difference between the hem-fir and doug fir, but since you are leaning towards returning the hem-fir I would do that. If you don't and something doesn't turn out right, you'll always be kicking yourself. Since this is a project you will be living with for a long time and something you'll be looking at every time you pick up a tool, just get the Douglas fir and be done with it. Then there will be no second guessing.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

worked in a mill when I went to school- big difference from doug fir to the hem fir. The fir in hem fir is white fir. Soft- coarse and not very strong. At that time it was all shipped east- because it was lighter and shipping was cheaper. If you still can I would take it back.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

i went back and got the doug fir ... one 16 foot long 2x10. i had them cut it in half for me so i could get it in the car.

it bugs me that even though it is sold as a 2x10, in reality it was 1 1/2 x 9 1/4. i was kinda counting on that extra 1/4"

time to make a new rip and cut list.


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## <*(((>< (Feb 24, 2010)

Good choice on getting the dougfir, there's a reason it's used for the top and bottom plates in residential construction...it's strength.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> i went back and got the doug fir ... one 16 foot long 2x10. i had them cut it in half for me so i could get it in the car.
> 
> it bugs me that even though it is sold as a 2x10, in reality it was 1 1/2 x 9 1/4. i was kinda counting on that extra 1/4"
> 
> time to make a new rip and cut list.


I do not know why the construction lumber industry defines the sizes the way that they do, but starting with "8in" the width is 1/4in not 1/2in. :furious:

So "8in" is actually 7 1/4in, "10in" is actually 9 1/4in etc.

Rough cut hardwoods are the dimensions as expected, since we normally pay by the board foot.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

So, the problem now is ... how the heck am I going to mill this stuff? I have what could be considered one of the cheapest, crappiest little table saws made ... a Skil 3400. I guess I'll just try to send it through and see what happens.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Buy a good circular saw and a piece of extruded aluminum as an edge guide? I gave up and sold my cheap table saw when I discovered I could make accurate cuts that way. Easier to store in the shop, too.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> So, the problem now is ... how the heck am I going to mill this stuff? I have what could be considered one of the cheapest, crappiest little table saws made ... a Skil 3400. I guess I'll just try to send it through and see what happens.


Since you only have the crappy Skil table saw, then you have to either use this or hand saw which is a LOT of elbow grease.

If you have a jig saw or circular saw and a stiff straight edge you would have other options.

If the boards are straight and have little or no internal stresses, you should get decent rips. You will likely need to use a hand plane to remove burn or saw blade marks.

To help with the short table depth, I would have some support on the outfeed so that you are only pushing the wood, not pushing and preventing it from lifting, which is a potential for kickback.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I do have a circular saw and some long pieces of L shaped extruded aluminum, but I don't know if they are 8' or not. 

That is probably my best bet. I need to look at dedicated ripping blades for my circular saw. Guess where I'm going over lunch?


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

I had an Accu Rip saw guide which doesn't appear for sale anywhere any longer, but Kreg makes something similar (better?) that you could consider. When ripping sheets I find it easier than a straightedge.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> I do have a circular saw and some long pieces of L shaped extruded aluminum, but I don't know if they are 8' or not.
> 
> That is probably my best bet. I need to look at dedicated ripping blades for my circular saw. Guess where I'm going over lunch?


If you have a sheet of plywood, the factory edge is normally good for use as a guide with a circular saw.

If one of the boards is straight, you can use this as the guide to rip the others, then finally use one of the pieces to cut the guide board.

If none are straight, you can use a hand plane to get one straight to use as a guide. A chalk line snapped along the length is good for reference to straighten with the plane.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

good ideas Dave, thanks.

i assume a 24 tooth blade would be right for ripping this stuff, right?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> good ideas Dave, thanks.
> 
> i assume a 24 tooth blade would be right for ripping this stuff, right?


That should work. This is only softwood which is fairly easy to cut. 

I have ripped 8/4 hard maple with my circular saw. The very thin kerf of circular saw blades cut easier. This was when I had my first table saw, the 1 3/4HP motor did not like cutting 8/4 maple.


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## Sarge240 (Feb 8, 2013)

Should I use Douglas fir over yellow pine? I see that is your choice, and wanted to know which was best


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

I used doug fir because it is locally available and I wanted my bench top to be softer then what I work on. I look at the top as being sacrificial but the piece I am working on as not sacrificial. that said- It is a matter of choice- If the pine is local and cheap- it would work. Some would prefer hard maple. Use what you want- avoid something really soft like white fir or popular. Just my opinion- sure does not make me right.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Sarge240 said:


> Should I use Douglas fir over yellow pine? I see that is your choice, and wanted to know which was best


No single answer, it depends on what properties are desired.

The following data is from this useful site :
http://www.wood-database.com

Let take Western White Pine as an example of a pine species
*Average Dried Weight:* 27 lbs/ft3 (435 kg/m3)​ *Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC):* .35, .43​ *Janka Hardness:* 420 lbf (1,870 N)​ *Modulus of Rupture:* 9,700 lbf/in2 (66.9 MPa)​ *Elastic Modulus:* 1,460,000 lbf/in2 (10.07 GPa)​ *Crushing Strength:* 5,040 lbf/in2 (34.8 MPa)​ *Shrinkage:* Radial: 4.1%, Tangential: 7.4%, Volumetric: 11.8%, T/R Ratio: 1.8​

Douglas Fir.
*Average Dried Weight: * 36 lbs/ft3 (570 kg/m3)​ *Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC):* .45, .57​ *Janka Hardness:* 620 lbf (2,760 N)​ *Modulus of Rupture:* 12,500 lbf/in2 (86.2 MPa)​ *Elastic Modulus: * 1,765,000 lbf/in2 (12.17 GPa)​ *Crushing Strength:* 6,950 lbf/in2 (47.9 MPa)​ *Shrinkage:* Radial: 4.5%, Tangential: 7.3%, Volumetric: 11.6%, T/R Ratio: 1.6​
If the design needs strength and weight, as in a bench, then Doug Fir would be better than pine.

If the design needed light weight, then pine would be better than Doug Fir.

Pine can have pitch pockets. Sometimes visible, sometimes only exposed once you plane or cut and find the pitch.

The grain on Doug Fir can chip when routing. I have some strips of Doug Fir around a bench top. The orientation of the grain caused me some issues in routing a 1/2in roundover. Some tearout. Even after sanding some of the grain tends to catch.

The big box stores do not have a lot of selection.

The "premium" grades of construction lumber, i.e. the ones most likely to be able to select a few straight boards, are typically HEM-FIR or DOUG FIR-L.

The lower grades are frequently S-P-F (Spruce, Pine or Fir). Which species may depend on location of the mill which sourced to the big box store.

If you are looking for S4S 1in boards, then big box choices are frequently pine, poplar, red oak and perhaps soft maple.

Personally, I hate working with pine. I was asked to make some shelves last year and the person did not want to spend the money for hard wood, so I ended up using pine from a big box store.

It felt like every time I looked at the boards a new set of dings was present. Not much fun to either fill or sand out.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Sarge240 said:


> Should I use Douglas fir over yellow pine? I see that is your choice, and wanted to know which was best


Christopher Schwartz, widely known for expertise on workbenches and a couple books on the subject, recommends Southern Yellow Pine as a low cost alternative to maple. That is if you have it available locally.


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## MeasureTwice (Jan 12, 2012)

I used Southern Yellow Pine for my bench so it has to be the best choice!:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Before:









After:


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Nice looking bench- I an not sure but I think S yellow pine is harder then W white pine. I agree working with white pine you look at it and it dents it. I did a yellow pine floor and it was comparable in hardness to doug fir but worked nicer.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Guys, I'm going with DF. That question has been answered. What I'm working on now is a way to rip the boards that is safe, accurate, and easy for one person working alone.

I believe that a solution that uses a circular saw is going to be safer and easier for someone working solo. Now I need to work out the accuracy issue. I have a few pieces of L shaped aluminum extrude that are 8 feet long. I am scheming to come up with a setup that uses those for the straight-edge guides.

I'll start a separate thread for that jig.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

We were answering Sarge's question. Sorry if we distracted your thread.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> What I'm working on now is a way to rip the boards that is safe, accurate, and easy for one person working alone.
> 
> I believe that a solution that uses a circular saw is going to be safer and easier for someone working solo. Now I need to work out the accuracy issue. I have a few pieces of L shaped aluminum extrude that are 8 feet long. I am scheming to come up with a setup that uses those for the straight-edge guides.
> 
> I'll start a separate thread for that jig.


I have used L shaped angle in the past. I used mostly for routing a face straight. This was before I got my table saw.

Works well for short lengths.

For long lengths I found my pressure to engage the router against the straight edge caused the angle to flex slightly. I did not notice during the routing, but afterwards I could see the slight curve by sighting down the board.

It is likely you will not have clamps with deep enough throat to avoid the flexing issue, I know my deepest are 7in throat.

So consider screwing the angle to pieces of plywood. Likely a 3in - 6in wide piece will provide sufficient rigidity. I think 1/4in ply should work. 3/8 or 1/2in may be easier for the screws.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I use angle iron all the time for a circular saw fence. Like Dave said, it will flex. For long lengths I have cut pieces of wood just long enough to reach from the clamping edge to fit tight against the back side of the fence. This has worked well for me and for an 8' length I think a clamp on each end and maybe two in the middle would be enough. Might need more though if your aluminum has more flex.


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## MeasureTwice (Jan 12, 2012)

Didn't intend to move the thread off track, sorry

My only advice/comment when ripping wide stock like that is to only rip as much as you can prep and glue up in one session. You may not have the same problem with DF but I went gung ho with the SYP and ripped, jointed, planned all the stock the same day, looked great!! Had to let it set for a couple of days. When I got back to it about 1/4 of it had warped to the point of not being usable. I guess a lot of internal stress was released.

Anyway, maybe that wouldn't happen with DF. But if I ever build another one, regardless of species, I'll be cautious of that. And I did let the SYP acclimate to the shop for about two weeks before ripping.

Good luck and looking forward to seeing pics:thumbsup:


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

No worries. It was a related question that was asked, and you guys responded. I was just trying to keep the thread from meandering too much further.


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## Art Smith (Oct 16, 2012)

Buy a table saw. Better end product. And you'll certainly need a table saw in the future for other projects. It's an investment


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## Sarge240 (Feb 8, 2013)

Sorry for hijacking your thread brother. I didn't realize that would happen, but thank u all for the extensive explanations and responses. /closed


Lol


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Art Smith said:


> Buy a table saw. Better end product. And you'll certainly need a table saw in the future for other projects. It's an investment


Art, I have a table saw. I don't feel comforatble using it for this because the table is very small (it is a cheap old Skil 3400) and I have no infeed or outfeed support for it, the boards are so long and wide and heavy, and I am working alone.

I suppose if I built infeed and outfeed support for it, and used a featherboard to keep it against the fence, it might be manageable.


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## Greg in Maryland (Jan 6, 2011)

Chris, If you shelp your boards up to me in Montgomery Village, we can rip, joint and plane them on my equipment. unfortunately, the longest board I can get into my basement is 10 feet, so you would have to cut it a bit.

Do keep in mind that construction lumber is rather wet and will shake and shimmy before, during and after ripping and finishing. What is flat and straight one moment is a twisted wreck another. you would be well of waiting for several weeks before you start milling.

Greg


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks Greg. I'm currently leaning towards trying it myself. 

What I have so far is a 2x10-16 piece of DF that I had cut into two 8' lengths to get in the car. This is for the legs. It has been sitting in my garage for a few days, and it may very well be another week before I get around to doing anything with it.

At 9 1/4" thick, I hope to get three 3" wide pieces out of it. I am wavering between trying it with my TS and some adjustable height horses I have for in- and out-feed support, and a circular saw with a straight-edge guide.

If I can control the wood, I'd probably get a better cleaner cut with the TS. But it is so big and heavy that it might overwhelm the little rinky-dink setup I can cobble together.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You can do this if you want .... simply*



Chris Curl said:


> Art, I have a table saw. I don't feel comforatble using it for this because the table is very small (it is a cheap old Skil 3400) and I have no infeed or outfeed support for it, the boards are so long and wide and heavy, and I am working alone.
> 
> I suppose if I built infeed and outfeed support for it, and used a featherboard to keep it against the fence, it might be manageable.


You can take a rectangle of plywood like 24" X 48", cut a hole inside the same size as your table saw using a sabre saw.
Lay the whole set up on a flat surface upside down then make wood or metal brackets that retain the saw flush with the top side. Then you turn it right side up, mount it on saw horses and make a switch that's accessible and a fence that's parallel with the blade. 

Myself I prefer ripping long boards on a table saw. If I didn't have one, then yes, I would use a straight edge guide OR the ripping guide that came with the saw. You have to securely support the work, allow for the saw kerf and press firmly into the work. I do this by standing on the opposite side of the work from the saw and pull it in towards me as I push it forward, keeping the shoe of the guide against the board. This only works with boards that are straight to start with!

A simple straight line rip sled/jig:


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Wood, I have seen those. While I'm sure that would be fine, what I like about this is that it's more like a track saw, so I'm more likely to keep it going perfectly straight.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Chis to avoid confusion...*



Chris Curl said:


> ....
> What I have so far is a 2x10-16 piece of DF that I had cut into two 8' lengths to get in the car.....
> *At 9 1/4" thick*, I hope to get three 3" wide pieces out of it.


The common nomenclature for a dimensioned piece of lumber is thickness X width X length, hence 2" X 4", 2" X 10" etc ... length.
You meant to state the width rather than the thickness as 9 1/4", I'm sure. :yes:
It's important because when giving dimensions in offering advice or in asking questions, a lot depends on the getting the info correct right out of the gate, or you will be getting advice that makes no sense. :thumbdown:


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> The common nomenclature for a dimensioned piece of lumber is thickness X width X length, hence 2" X 4", 2" X 10" etc ... length.
> You meant to state the width rather than the thickness as 9 1/4", I'm sure. :yes:
> It's important because when giving dimensions in offering advice or in asking questions, a lot depends on the getting the info correct right out of the gate, or you will be getting advice that makes no sense. :thumbdown:


you are right, i meant 9 1/4" wide


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I have a new plan. It uses the 2x10s I already bought, but the legs use 2x3s instead. This is much more manageable for me.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Playing around with Excel, I was able to plan the cut list out so that it uses exactly three 8 foot 2x3s for each of the two sides of the base. So I need six 2x3s for the base.

I bought all 6 of the 2x3s I need for the base today. I had to cut a few of the pieces at the store to get them short enough to fit in the trunk of my car. The minivan is in the shop getting a new transmission.

More updates later!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I got my legs all cut and glued up today. It's too late for pics ... maybe tomorrow.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

There is a lumberyard called TW Perry not too far from my home. I stopped there on the way to work this morning hoping to find a couple of 8' lengths of 2x4 Douglas Fir. I hit the jackpot. They have absolutely beautiful and dead straight CLEAR DF in 20' lenghts. They cut me two 8' lengths.

God willing, I will be drilling my holes for the face clamps tonight.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

A more complete build of it is here:

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/40237-new-fangled-bench-build.html


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