# Redwood Slab Table - Progress



## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

*Redwood Slab Table - IN Progress*

Hey guys. Just wanted to start this thread as a 'journal' so to speak to track my progress. As well as a place where people can give me advice as I go along as I'm a total rookie and constantly learning more and more about wood and working with it. Again, I'm a total noob so be gentle of course, it's amature hour here but it's a project for me and I'm learning more and more as i go. Thanks for stopping in.

Guess I'll just get into it. Started off buying a nice slab of Redwood from a shop.



















From there I peeled the bark and did a rough sand with 40-80 grit. You can clearly see it's checked so I planned on making some bow-tie / dutchman joints for that (research began)

TOP









BOTTOM



























Originally since the wood was lighter I was going to look for some darker walnut for the bow ties but couldn't find any at a 'resonable' price with the thickness I needed. Did find some other lighter wood in a scrap box at a hardware store (have to go back and find out the name of it) that was super dense so I thought it'd work nicely. Sized out my shapes and then cut them out using a friends band saw. 

For Bottom Cracks









For Top Cracks


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

I then went about marking / scoring exactly where i wanted them on the slab.



















Then Since i didn't have a router and I needed to go 1 1/2" deep into these boards i figured I'd use my forstner bit set to help me out wherever possible. Started by scoring out my shapes first, then drilling out as much wood as I could....










From there I chiseled the rest away as carefully as I could - this was the first time I'd ever done this so I messed up a few things, mainly my edges but I def. learned and could do better in the future.










Tested it out.










Fits pretty snug so i might sand down the sides of my bow ties just to be safe. 



2+ down - having fun!


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

BOTTOMS DONE












Rinse and Repeat for the Top




















THENNNN I ran into a problem. I wanted to put a bow tie where this knot on the top of the table was because for one, it had a crack in it, and two, i thought it'd look nice to have another on the top simply for visuals. However when i started into it it was super dry and dense and started flaking out a bit. So I stopped. When i tried to score my edges it seemed as though I wouldn't be able to make it nice and clean. So from here I either have to decide to just leave it as it with a few hatchet marks in it, or push through very carefully. Not sure what to do. Was thinking of just filling it lightly with some epoxy but again, not sure, just spit balling. Any thoughts there would be great. If not i'll think of something.

Here's the culprit.









More SOON! I plan on getting some epoxy and saw dust from the initial sandings and mixing them together this weekend so I can install the other bow ties in the meantime...


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Well I'm glad your doing this in a build tutorial. So I can't really offer any other tips or ideas other than what I've already gave you. 
That red wood will brighten up after you finish it. 
Wipe a little mineral spirits on it and you'll see. Lighter bowties will be of choice, to compliment the top. Good luck.


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## Kevin07 (Feb 19, 2009)

thats one nice looking slab cant wait to see it with the bow ties in.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks Dominic! Yea figured I'd piece it all together as i went along in case the process could help anyone in any way (myself included). Plus it'll stop me from making tons of question threads everywhere else! :laughing:

:thumbsup:


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

That's looking sharp. I've never used those before, and I think I'd like to. The table is going to look sharp.


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## woodmeistro (Jul 9, 2010)

Nice wood. I have always wanted to make a slab table. Just waiting on a good deal on a slab. what will your base be?


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## dbales (Jun 21, 2011)

This is looking very good. I'll definitely be following this build.

Are the bowties used to strengthen up the cracked areas? 
Also, what's the purpose of the epoxy/sawdust mixture?

(I'm new to woodworking too and I hate making a bunch of threads asking the simplest questions, lol)


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

You're doing a great job on a beautiful piece of wood.!!!!

I'll address the bowtie in the knot.
Getting a good crisp edge in the grain of that knot is going to be a real challenge.
The grain will want to crumble.
Try using your utility knife to score the edges before you start chiseling.

Curious.....I see brand new tools. Did you sharpen those chisels or are you using them right off the shelf?
That could be some of the problem also. 

I would cut another bowtie a little larger, remark it so you cover the dented area, score it with your knife, get your sharpest chisel, and go just a little at a time.

Try not to use fillers. You've done too nice a job up to this point.

Thanks for posting...we'll all learn from this one.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks guys!

Yea bow-ties or dutchman joints are supposed to help strengthen cracks and prevent them from spreading more. At least that's the idea.

For legs I'm going to probably buy or have some metal legs made. My wife likes the look of the wood with a more modern base. Something along the lines of this for a base.

(my inspiration pic)










I'm hoping something like that'll be strong enough to carry the weight. 

As for the tools, the chisels are brand new, everything else i had. They are pretty dang sharp but I see what you mean for the knot, sharper would def. be better there. Still not sure what i'm going to do about that part. I'm going to put the bottom side bow ties in today and think about the knot.

For the epoxy / saw dust mixture I believe the saw dust just helps marry the foreign epoxy with the wood more....I don't think it's 100% essential but i've seen and heard a few others mention this process along the way so I figured i'd try it. Maybe someone with more knowledge on that can explain exactly why if i'm not correct there.

I was thinking about just using wood glue w/ saw dust instead of the epoxy as I heard epoxy is going to be more difficult to sand off, but i think I'll like the look of the epoxy better in the end. That's where I'm at now in my head at least.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

So i got all the bottom side bow ties set in. Some required a bit more epoxy than i was expecting so I'm wondering, how difficult is it to sand epoxy? I was planning on planning the proud surfaces and sanding them down as much as i could with 40 grit sand paper. Will the 40 grid sand paper do the trick against the epoxy as well? 

I'm also thinking about sanding down the bottom side first before moving to the top just so i can 'make mistakes' and then repeat the process on the top. Do you guys think that's over kill or is it a good idea to simply get the bottom sides bow ties / epoxy roughly sanded down before moving to the top?


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Found this video, this guy uses a grinder with a sanding disc on it to remove most of the proud surfaces and excess epoxy. Then he belt sands, and then orbital sands.

http://youtu.be/nMcXwmoOExI

Anyone else use a similar method or do people usually use planers and then a sander, or just a sander to remove the bulk of the proud surface??


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

Everyone has their own method. Using Sanders works, but be careful since they can take off a ton of material without you knowing, and very quickly. Hand planes are probably the preferred choice of pros.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

thanks! will hand planes work against the epoxy as well or is that better suited for a sander. I assume the hand planers are the desired method for simply the proud surface, and I'm sure i'll find out soon enough but if there's a more desired / efficient method for the epoxy specifically I'd love to know. Thanks again


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## Sorrowful Jones (Nov 28, 2010)

I love the look of a table that has bowties... just gives it a rustic look. I am curious though..... would it have been better to glue up the check, clamp it, keep it clamped while cutting out for the ties, then fitting the ties in? I will be following this...It's gonna be a great table


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Sorrowful Jones said:


> I love the look of a table that has bowties... just gives it a rustic look. I am curious though..... would it have been better to glue up the check, clamp it, keep it clamped while cutting out for the ties, then fitting the ties in? I will be following this...It's gonna be a great table


Glueing that check won't hold it together. Bowties not only stabilize, they look nice.


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## Sorrowful Jones (Nov 28, 2010)

I agree that gluing alone will not hold that check. My question is this: Should the top be clamped together during the time the bow ties are fitted, so the bow tie will be holding the check together? And if so, wouldn't some glue in the crack be beneficial?


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

Yea, use the hand plane on the Bowtie until it is flush. It shouldn't have a problem with the epoxy. Then sand smooth. 

I like the look of keeping the check open, if you don't like that the surface has a crack in it though for food to get stuck in, you can fill it in with clear epoxy.


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

That is one gorgeous slab of wood. I really like your bow ties too. I'll be watching this one.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

thanks guys! Yea i like the check / crack open. If it was a different shape and if i was finishing it with a thicker clear coat top i'd fill it....but since i'm most likely just going to put some top oil on it I think it'll be better open.

so much pressure! hope i don't screw it up! =)

any recommendations on hand / block planers? I don't have one or the means to sharpen it etc right now. =\


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

You don't have to use a plane, and don't have to buy one just for this project. Sanding it down works fine, it just takes longer. and you can use the disc sander on a grinder or drill, just be careful cuz it does take off material quickly


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## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Beautiful slab. As to your metal base if I may be so bold to offer my .02 

I'm in the process of doing a walnut slab table and like yourself like the mix of wood and metal. I went with 1/4" plate steel "L" shaped legs. I had a steel guy fabricate them and then got them powder coated. I'm doing a 12/4 walnut spreader between the legs, though I'm not sure it's necessary.

Here is a shot of them prepped w/o the spreader.










I had some steel 1/2" steel bow ties added to the underside.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

JB97031 said:


> Beautiful slab. As to your metal base if I may be so bold to offer my .02
> 
> I'm in the process of doing a walnut slab table and like yourself like the mix of wood and metal. I went with 1/4" plate steel "L" shaped legs. I had a steel guy fabricate them and then got them powder coated. I'm doing a 12/4 walnut spreader between the legs, though I'm not sure it's necessary.
> 
> ...


What kind of finish is on there? Looks like maybe an epoxy/resin bar top finish. I think those steel bowties are pretty nice. Just have to make sure you router the exact thickness of the bowtie.


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## Icutone2 (Nov 4, 2011)

GREAT job on the both of the tops!
Will be watching this one also.
Lee


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## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Dominick said:


> What kind of finish is on there? Looks like maybe an epoxy/resin bar top finish. I think those steel bowties are pretty nice. Just have to make sure you router the exact thickness of the bowtie.


Dominick
I used a 1:1 mix of dewaxed shellac / turpines for the first coat as per Chemmy's instructions. The next four coats are Waterlox gloss and the last coat is Waterlox original. It's too shiny for my liking, but since this was the underside of the table, I figured I would experiment. When I get to finishing the top, I'll probably make the last coat a satin or stick with the original and see how much it loses it's gloss over the first 3 months as the manufacture claims it will. If that's still not enough - then a coat or two of satin.


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## brown down (Mar 2, 2010)

outstanding can't wait to see what she looks like when done! will be following this for sure. hope i was some help getting you started. they are nervous doing for the first time! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

looks great JB! Interesting choice on the metal bow ties, haven't seen that done before. very cool. post up pics of yours as well when your all done!

I'm hoping for no rain tomorrow so i can sand down the proud bow ties and start in on the top side. 

Also realizing how super soft redwood is and i'm wondering now about my finish choice, which was going to be simply some OSMO top oil, not sure how that's going to look, i'd love to get 'less red' out of my redwood..ha! but i guess we'll see sooner than later how the finish'll look. I'm thinking to prevent dents and dings as much as possible i might need a poly based finish. Dents and dings won't bother me THAT much but considering it'll be used daily as a dinning room table maybe it's better. Just thoughts for now.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Both projects are coming along fabulously !
I do like the metal bow ties. It's a unique combo from a coloring and material visual.

Great job, guys.


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## Carvel Loafer (Dec 31, 2011)

Love the redwood! A very interesting project.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

First of all, I love that huge chunk of redwood. That will make a gorgeous table for sure. Also, thanks for including us in your journey. It is great to see someones learning curve, and to learn along with you. I realize I am joining this thread a little late, but I thought I would add my 2 cents



tcleve4911 said:


> Curious.....I see brand new tools. Did you sharpen those chisels or are you using them right off the shelf?
> That could be some of the problem also.
> 
> I would cut another bowtie a little larger, remark it so you cover the dented area, score it with your knife, get your sharpest chisel, and go just a little at a time.
> ...





barnabaas said:


> As for the tools, the chisels are brand new, everything else i had. They are pretty dang sharp but I see what you mean for the knot, sharper would def. be better there. Still not sure what i'm going to do about that part. I'm going to put the bottom side bow ties in today and think about the knot.


When I first bought my chisels, I thought they were sharp. I then proceeded to use them for a project that was very similiar to one that Norm did, and was frustrated because my chisels weren't shaving off wood the same way Norm's did. I just dismissed it as having cheap tools. I then bought the Worksharp 3000 years later, and really sharpened my chisels. What a *HUGE DIFFERENCE* that made. Now I work with my chisels, and it is almost effortless to fine tune a joint with them. 

While I know that you might not have the money to buy a sharpening system, there are alot of methods out there that just use sandpaper to achieve very sharp results. I still think the best way to sharpen anything is with stones, but I just don't have the patience to do that at this time, and the stones are a little expensive.

Keep up the good work on the table though. Loving it!

Fabian


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

thanks Fabian. Hopefully someday i'll be able to buy a nice sharpener but in the meantime i'll def. look into sharpening these. Once this projects done most likely. I agree and can see why having these things super sharp would make things that much easier. Honestly never even thought about that until using them. 

Now I'm just waiting around for this rain to stop so i can sand off these proud bow ties. Not supposed to stop raining until next week =\ I guess it's good, we needed the rain. I'm just impatient. heh. 

I guess while i'm here I could ask. When there's a slight gap with the bow-ties fit. Do you just over fill that gap with glue or epoxy? I assume you do - which is what i did in some cases but wondering now if there was a better solution. (Other than re-cutting another bow-tie closer to size which i think would be the best option)


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

im looking forward to seeing the next step. more pics !!


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## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

bob sacamano said:


> im looking forward to seeing the next step. more pics !!


 
^^^^^^
what he said


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## mackem (May 20, 2007)

MidGAOutdoor said:


> ^^^^^^
> what he said


 
What they said. :thumbsup:


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

JB97031 said:


> Dominick
> I used a 1:1 mix of dewaxed shellac / turpines for the first coat as per Chemmy's instructions. The next four coats are Waterlox gloss and the last coat is Waterlox original. It's too shiny for my liking, but since this was the underside of the table, I figured I would experiment. When I get to finishing the top, I'll probably make the last coat a satin or stick with the original and see how much it loses it's gloss over the first 3 months as the manufacture claims it will. If that's still not enough - then a coat or two of satin.


i never worked with waterlox. how easy/hard is it to use ? any drawbacks i should know about before i try it ? i was thinking of using it on a bathroom vanity top. any thoughts on that from anyone ?


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

mackem said:


> What they said. :thumbsup:


ok ok! heh. So it's still sitting in my living room waiting for the week long rain to stop so i can sand it down....but here's the bottom when i epoxy'd the bow ties in.


Wondering if i should be a bit cleaner when doing this for the top side, or if i should be messier to ensure i'm filling in any gaps? I did the bottom first so i could 'make mistakes' 

Also wondering what peoples thoughts or suggestions are for finishing this? Right now I have some OSMO top oil for it (http://www.osmona.com/interior/Top_oil.shtml) However considering it's going to be a dining room table and be used quite frequently I'm wondering if i should look into this Poly based finisher instead.....(http://www.osmona.com/interior/Original_polyx.shtml)? Thoughts or suggestions on how to finish this thing, I've never delt with redwood and am not sure how it'll look post finish? I would love to have it 'less red.' Crazy I know considering i'm using redwood but to be honest I'm secretly in love with walnut, don't tell my wife. lol. So maybe somewhere in-between a fully natural redwood color and a fairly dark walnut color.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Looks nice. I'm just curious why your choosing that side as your bottom? 
Reason I'm asking is the way the live edge is facing. I personally like what you call the bottom being the top. JMO. Don't forget to sand bowties flat. I'm sure you already new that. Either way it will look nice. As far as finish on that top, the red would look hot. 

If its ok with you, I did a cedar slab coffee table finished with poly I'll show you so you can see the color. Only with your consent. Don't want to hurt anyone's feeling. Being a lot of sensitive people here. Don't want to give you the wrong impression.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Looks nice. I'm just curious why your choosing that side as your bottom?
> Reason I'm asking is the way the live edge is facing. I personally like what you call the bottom being the top. JMO. Don't forget to sand bowties flat. I'm sure you already new that. Either way it will look nice. As far as finish on that top, the red would look hot.
> 
> If its ok with you, I did a cedar slab coffee table finished with poly I'll show you so you can see the color. Only with your consent. Don't want to hurt anyone's feeling. Being a lot of sensitive people here. Don't want to give you the wrong impression.


we choose that as the bottom simply because we didn't want to take the risk of someone putting their cup or plate down on the 'edge' portion to have it slide off or cause a mess etc. The other side would make it feel 'flatter' while maintainig some aspect of the live edges - more surface area really. That was our reasoning at least. Plus the opposing side had a cleaner look to it for us. I'm going to finish both sides the same so it's still open to change at any time for us. It's a done deal once the legs go in.

I'd love to see your solo poly finish. Is it the one in your photos section here? If so I just checked it out - looks nice - though i think we'd like something closer to your walnut top coffee table, color wise. I have no problem with stuff like that in general though. I'm just taking in as much information as possible to make my own decisions. After all it's MY table and I can screw it up however I like in the end of things right. =) Everyone will of course have their opinions on how they'd like it to look but I'm not doing this table for anyone but myself and my wife...so the only opinion that REALLY matters is the person who owns it right?? :blink: Aren't we all here to just help each other along the way?


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Hey that's cool either way. Personal preference. 
And yes that table is the one im referring to. 
Thanks for the kind words. The walnut table top also has a ploy finish on it. Two different woods so color will obviously be different. Can't wait to see what you do for legs. Got any ideas?


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Rain stopped for a few hours today so I impatiently ran out to sand down some of these proud bow ties. Excited since these are the first I've ever done, so i think they're 'ok' ...but they could be so much better i think.

[pics removed]

Again these are going to be on the bottom so i'm not SUPER concerned with how clean they were, but i'd of course like them to be perfect. Great learning experience so far for me. My main concerns is how much spill over there was with the epoxy, it made sanding them down fine....but as you can see on both of them there's spots where it seems to have still bleed out a bit from where you'd imagine the clean line would be. Was hesitant to keep sanding there because i didn't want to create and un-even groove or surface there. Also due to using 5 min. epoxy i was very rushed when putting them in so some edges weren't fully filled in. I suppose I could just fill them in now after the fact and re-sand to make them cleaner?? Would you guys suggest i do that? 

For the top to avoid the excess epoxy filling half way into the cracks I realize I should've taped around everything to help maintain some cleanliness, correct? Also I wish I had made the fitment a bit tighter so I wouldn't need AS much epoxy to fill in those gaps. Lesson learned there.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Hey those look great. I wouldn't worry about it to much. It adds character. I like to use wood glue for my bow ties. Mixing wood dust and glue for the filler works for me. Either way it's a learning thing at this point. Thumbs up.


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

Those things aren't the easiest to do. And with that being said I think they look great! I haven't done any before but i'm sure I can't do any better. Well done


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah I like.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Thx guys!


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

So I don't know what I was thinking, but i used wood glue / sanding dust on the top pieces, and it was a pain. I hadn't experimented with it or ever used it so i should've stuck with what i knew for the top especially. Guess I thought it should be very similar and since i knew i'd need a lot it'd be much easier to fill and cheaper in a way. I think the main problem was one of the bow ties on that side wasn't a very tight fit to begin with so i needed A LOT of wood glue. I'm letting it sit now and hoping for the best when i sand it down but I wish i would've stuck with the epoxy at this point. I guess if it's not flush when it's dry and sanded i could just put a thin layer of epoxy to fill in any cracks and whatnot. Or just make more wood glue / dust paste and rinse and repeat until it's flush (provided it's not already when it dries). Just throw'n my thoughts in the thread while I wait.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Lol. Sounds like your trying way to hard at this. 
You don't need to flood it with glue. Just brush a little glue in the mortice and some on the bottom of the bowtie. It's just to keep the bowtie from falling out. Fill with dust and glue, let it dry then sand. I think your thinking way to hard. My bowties don't always fit perfect. 
Remember this is hand made. Keep up the good work my friend.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

haha, yea maybe. I guess i just don't want any cracks in it, or gaps between the bow tie and the rest of the top and without flooding it i dunno how that'll happen. It's my own fault for chiseling that one out too big anyways. >.< 

heh. I'll keep at it. :yes:


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

got the top bow ties all glued in. wasn't AS bad as i was making it out to be. However you can see because my bow ties weren't super tight there's some pockets. What's the best way to fill these in? More glue mixed with sand dust? or a few precise dabs of epoxy? What would you guys recommend. I def. want to fill them because i don't want food and whatnot potentially getting stuck down there, and i'd like it to look semi 'clean' on the top side. 

Second thing I'm thinking of doing today is putting some of my top oil finish on a small section on the bottom side of the table to see what it's going to look like and decide if we're going to like the color with simply the top oil. The whole table is only sanded at 80 grit atm so i'll probably give it a once over again and then go 120, 220, etc before putting on whatever final finish we decide. Will doing that test spot cause any problems? Even if i'm going to re-sand the bottom once more? Thanks for the help / sugs guys. Getting closer!!


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Looking good. If you fill with epoxy you'll still see epoxy around the edges. Smear some wood glue with your finger in the gaps, then smear some wood dust with your ginger in there. After it drys, sand it lightly. Sanding it sometimes will pull the wood dust and glue out. Sand it lightly. What I sometimes do is just before I'm ready to put a top coat on, I'll take some more sanding dust and shove it in the gap dry, no glue. Blow of the remaining dust making sure there's dust in the gaps. Apply your finish over the top to blend it in. 
Not much more I can add. Practice, practice,practice. Lol. Can't wait to see a finish coat.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Looking good. If you fill with epoxy you'll still see epoxy around the edges. Smear some wood glue with your finger in the gaps, then smear some wood dust with your ginger in there. After it drys, sand it lightly. Sanding it sometimes will pull the wood dust and glue out. Sand it lightly. What I sometimes do is just before I'm ready to put a top coat on, I'll take some more sanding dust and shove it in the gap dry, no glue. Blow of the remaining dust making sure there's dust in the gaps. Apply your finish over the top to blend it in.
> Not much more I can add. Practice, practice,practice. Lol. Can't wait to see a finish coat.


Sounds good. I was thinking that the sand dust and glue mix would be the best bet and just mash / smear it in. Thanks for the lightly sanding tip, i'll also try and not over smear and clean off any excess before walking away. 

Thx! So far this has been a good learning exp. def. looking forward to making more bow-tie joints on future projects with all this knowledge.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

No problem. Just take your time. This is handcrafted. Nobody's going to say anything bad about it. The true beauty is in your hands.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

so your not going to kill me when i tell you my wife REALLY wants to stain it once over. :laughing::laughing::laughing: 

going to show her sample pics of redwood stained from the shop i bought the wood from before she / we.....who am i kidding....she, comes to a final decision. 

gaps filled, now i wait, and wait....for glue to dry. heh.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Oh man your going to send me to hospital. 
Who's building this you or your wife? 
Man up. Take charge. When you stain it make it the worst looking stain job you can. When she's not looking mix up a couple stains to make it look ugly. 
You could also tell her its against woodworking talk rules. (no stain ) rule. Lol.


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## Evilfrog (Aug 2, 2011)

Looks stained already to me. Anyone here could tell you've already stained it. If she has any questions about it just point her to this thread. And trust us, we're "experts".


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Evilfrog said:


> Looks stained already to me. Anyone here could tell you've already stained it. If she has any questions about it just point her to this thread. And trust us, we're "experts".


No doubt about that. Lol 
Just tell her stain won't take a liking to redwood
But then again she'll see what we've said. 
Dog gone it. Lol


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

lol oh man, i can tell i'm not gonna win somewhere. either at home, or here. :laughing:

...there's still time, maybe i can switch the sample pics and tell her which ever one she likes best is the natural color, then hope for the best when it doesn't turn out like she's expecting. Then expect no sex for a good few months. LOL.

so all kidding aside though, when i lightly sand off the 'filler' in those gaps. Should i hand sand that? Or just sand with super low RPM's on my orbital with maybe 120 grit since i've BEEN doing 80 grit?


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## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Look on the bright side: At least she isn't asking you to paint it.:laughing:

I agree with everyone else. Redwood doesn't stain well.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

barnabaas said:


> lol oh man, i can tell i'm not gonna win somewhere. either at home, or here. :laughing:
> 
> ...there's still time, maybe i can switch the sample pics and tell her which ever one she likes best is the natural color, then hope for the best when it doesn't turn out like she's expecting. Then expect no sex for a good few months. LOL.
> 
> so all kidding aside though, when i lightly sand off the 'filler' in those gaps. Should i hand sand that? Or just sand with super low RPM's on my orbital with maybe 120 grit since i've BEEN doing 80 grit?


Lol. No sex means more wood working time. Baahaahaaaa you could use ROS just don't spend to much time in one area. Your top looks pretty smooth. 120 may be a little rough. I'd go to 150. If your staining it and you sand to like 220 or 320, the stain might not penetrate evenly. When your finishing it, I can almost guarantee that piece will soak up a lot of finish. 
What's the color your looking for?


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

I love this forum! I step out for like 20 min and you guys are crack'n me up when i get back. yea i heard redwood soaks up stain too when i was looking into it after she mentioned making it darker! I told her we should've just bought a dang walnut slab if THAT was the case. haha. oh well, it was a good price, shape etc. If I do end up staining it do you think using that pre-stain stuff would alleviate potential dark spots? I'm just skeptical about putting so much 'liquid' into the wood in general though. Don't want it to potentially warp if i can help it.

Anyways, I just ran over to the shop and took some pics for her but might as well post'm up while i have you guys around. I'm guessing she wants something in between cherry and walnut. Something along the lines of the first pic based off our conversations.

The shop told me this is a slab of redwood so it's pretty similar to what i have, sanded down to 320-400. 

Guessing she'll like the bottom one....maybe the top one though?









She'll like the top one better than the natural i'm guessing...(dark mahog - not the top top)









These are not so appealing to me.









For whatever it's worth that's what's in her email at the moment to check out at while she's at work.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Yea.... I no likey I hate stain so can't really give you any tips on using it. It's pretty much fool proof.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

This table is progressing nicely. You are doing a fabulous job, and we are learning from your experiences. 

A question about the bowties..... Are you making the bowties, and then tracing them on the wood, and chiseling them out from there? If that is the case, maybe you could try to chisel inside of the line, and "sneak" up on the lines, periodically trying the bowties for fit, until you get a nice tight fit. When checking the fit, just chisel out where you see it being too snug, and leave the rest alone. Just a thought for the next time......

Keep up the great work, though... you are inspiring me to try this out on something for my shop.

Fabian


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

thegrgyle said:


> This table is progressing nicely. You are doing a fabulous job, and we are learning from your experiences.
> 
> A question about the bowties..... Are you making the bowties, and then tracing them on the wood, and chiseling them out from there? If that is the case, maybe you could try to chisel inside of the line, and "sneak" up on the lines, periodically trying the bowties for fit, until you get a nice tight fit. When checking the fit, just chisel out where you see it being too snug, and leave the rest alone. Just a thought for the next time......
> 
> ...


Thanks! Yea I was doing that exactly, or do you mean chisel WAY inside the lines and then slowly work out? I was putting the chisel just on the inside of the lines and scoring my initial outline - verifying my shape in a way, but in a few cases pushed a tad too far into it. Which is where my 'snug-ness' factor fell apart a bit. However that's def. the way I did it and I think next time I'd be a lot more careful when chiseling out towards the edges and check my fitment many more times before continuing outwards. Lesson learned for sure. You should def. give it a shot. I'm a complete noob and was intimidated at first but it's not THAT hard. I mean....i did it sooooo. heh. Thanks again for the kind words.


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## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Two questions that I failed to ask in my first marriage, but have smoothed out some of my rough spots during my second one - "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?"

Or

(Let the experts weigh in here) seal it with one coat of finish. Let dry. Apply stain. When it puddles, come running out of the shop with a furtive look and have your wife come and see the mess. Explain that you have no idea what happened. You think the only solution is to wipe it down and put more coats of finish on top.

Whatever you do - don't tell her about this forum for fear that she will discover the truth of your / our methods.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

hahah, yea, i'm going to have to sort something out here. Don't want to have my wife looking at the table all the time hating it, and I don't want to have to deal with the repercussions, however maybe there's some middle ground. We'll see I guess. She already knows about the forums, lol, so no luck there. 

meanwhile when you guys are saying 'finish' what are you thinking i should use? I've heard use a varnish or poly. However all i have now is this OSMO top oil finish, which is supposed to not have any off gassing and be pretty durable, but i'm wondering if it'll be strong enough considering redwoods very soft. It's a wax /oil mixture.

http://www.osmona.com/interior/Top_oil.shtml

Should i be fine with just that? Anyone heard of or used the stuff?


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## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

Let the real experts chime in here - Chemmy, Cabinet Man, Dominic and others. I'm kind of in the same position as you with my slab. I have used urethane on prior projects with mixed happiness. If it scratches, you have to re-coat the whole thing. I have two different side tables that need to be re-coated.

For my walnut slab - I'm going with a tung oil varnish called Waterlox. First time using it, so I can't give you my personal opinion on how hard it is or how well it will withstand daily use - other than what I've read - it's original intended use being for floors. What I can say though is that it has brought out the color and chatoyance of the slab beautifully. I'm really happy with it. One of the main reasons for using it, is that when it gets scratched, you sand out just the scratch and apply a new coat on top of it. If this is true then it beats refinishing the whole slab.

Again - let the experts weigh in, but if it were me, I wouldn't go with just oil and wax if you want to really protect it from dings and daily use.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Behlins rock hard table top varnish. Only comes in high gloss. You could rub out the finish when it fully cures.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Only comes in high gloss. You could rub out the finish when it fully cures.


yea was affraid of that since we're going for a matte type finish. >.< this top oil / wax i have is technically supposed to have the same deal where if you scuff it or scratch you can just reapply very easily without having to sand down the entire top like most finishes. Though I doubt it's going to have the 'hardened' power that a varnish would have. That's def. the best bet I imagine. TBH i'm not too worried about it being scuffed and beat up a bit from daily use. It's a table and a fun project for cry'n out loud. If it lasts me 5+ years I'll be super happy considering it's my second attempt at an actual table with close to zero real wood working skills but yea great info here from the pro's :thumbsup: Appreciate all the generous time and info given out here.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Use a oil base poly if your not to concerned about it scuffing or scratching. You'll still have protection as well as beauty.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

as for the gaps around the bowties...........

ive never done bowties but does it make sense to use epoxy BUT only use it below the surface. let the epoxy dry -- then use a slurry of finish mixed with sanding dust and use a business card or old credit card to work into the top part of the gap on top of the dried epoxy. that way itll blend in better

just a thought - like i said ive never done bowties


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## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

i must be missing something


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Bob
I think wood glue and sawdust is adequate. If you get it on the surface, it is easily sanded.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

aardvark said:


> Bob
> I think wood glue and sawdust is adequate. If you get it on the surface, it is easily sanded.


glue wont take oil. if he mixes a slurry of sanding dust and the same finish hes going to use and works it in the cracks then waits till it dries and sands it over it will blend in an not be a conspicuous gap.

glue wont work well in a gap. glue works with a tight fitting - thats where the epoxy comes in


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Bob
The intent of my comment wasn't to hold the bowtie with the wood glue, but I suspect the glue is used to hold em in place in the first place, but not for filling gaps. I get the glue won't take oil, and I stand corrected there. If you want something to take oil, then there are various wood putties/fillers. These gap sizes are quite minimal in the log furniture realm.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

aardvark said:


> Bob
> The intent of my comment wasn't to hold the bowtie with the wood glue, but I suspect the glue is used to hold em in place in the first place, but not for filling gaps. I get the glue won't take oil, and I stand corrected there. If you want something to take oil, then there are various wood putties/fillers. These gap sizes are quite minimal in the log furniture realm.


why go with wood filler or putty when the sanding dust is the exact same color as the wood it came from ? 

i doubt the glue will hold the ties if theres a gap. like i said - ive never done ties. but i know glues and alphatic resin needs a tight fit ( think clamps ). thats why id use epoxy to fill the gaps and hold the joint. then a oil/sanding dust slurry to sit on top of the epoxy near the surface as a cosmetic


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bob sacamano said:


> why go with wood filler or putty when the sanding dust is the exact same color as the wood it came from ?
> 
> i doubt the glue will hold the ties if theres a gap. like i said - ive never done ties. but i know glues and alphatic resin needs a tight fit ( think clamps ). thats why id use epoxy to fill the gaps and hold the joint. then a oil/sanding dust slurry to sit on top of the epoxy near the surface as a cosmetic


Hey bob. 
Why wont the glue hold the bowties? 
Just curious.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Hey bob.
> Why wont the glue hold the bowties?
> Just curious.


 
dominic - i dont know the actual technical reason but woodworking yellow or white glue wont hold tight across a gap. woodworkers glue needs a tight wood to wood joint . thats what the clamping is all about. epoxy on the other hand will hold tight across a gap. 


and with all that said..............im almost certain that most woodworkers overtighten their clamps. clamps shoud be really snug. not tight to the point of squeezing all the glue out. but yet time and time again i hear people say '' theres never too many clamps'' ''the tighter the better''. and thats simply not true


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Gluing in the bowtie is just to hold the bowtie from falling out, not for structure. The strength comes from the bowtie itself. Gluing the flat part of the mortice and the bottom side of the bowtie only. No reason to do the sides. Never had any problems doing it that way. And yes you make a good point about clamping pressure.not needed when doing a Dutchman.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Gluing in the bowtie is just to hold the bowtie from falling out, not for structure. The strength comes from the bowtie itself. Gluing the flat part of the mortice and the bottom side of the bowtie only. No reason to do the sides. Never had any problems doing it that way. And yes you make a good point about clamping pressure.not needed when doing a Dutchman.


i thought the bowtie went completely through - from one side to the other. are you saying the bowtie only goes 1/2 way through ? or 3/4 ? 

in one of the pics i saw a hole drilled to start the mortise and assumed it went ALL the way thru .


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bob sacamano said:


> i thought the bowtie went completely through - from one side to the other. are you saying the bowtie only goes 1/2 way through ? or 3/4 ?
> 
> in one of the pics i saw a hole drilled to start the mortise and assumed it went ALL the way thru .


No not likely. Most bowties are not all the way threw. How deep depends on how thick the piece is that your adding bowties to. I usually go half the thickness of stock.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

Dominick said:


> No not likely. Most bowties are not all the way threw. How deep depends on how thick the piece is that your adding bowties to. I usually go half the thickness of stock.


dom - tell me where im going wrong here.....

if the bowtie doesnt go all the way thru and assuming theres a gap around it , why not epoxy it in ? the epoxy will ooze up around the tie and really create a hard bond. after it dries mix the slurry of finish and sanding dust and fill gaps.

am i re-inventing the wheel ??


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

bob sacamano said:


> dom - tell me where im going wrong here.....
> 
> if the bowtie doesnt go all the way thru and assuming theres a gap around it , why not epoxy it in ? the epoxy will ooze up around the tie and really create a hard bond. after it dries mix the slurry of finish and sanding dust and fill gaps.
> 
> am i re-inventing the wheel ??


I'm going to tell you your wrong. I don't use epoxy for those. It's just a personal preference. 
Normally when inserting your bowties there is minimal to none as far as gaps. You typically want them tight. You can do whatever works for you. No right or wrong way. JMO


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Dominick said:


> No not likely. Most bowties are not all the way threw. How deep depends on how thick the piece is that your adding bowties to. I usually go half the thickness of stock.


exacty what Dom said. You CAN go all the way through but during my research I found that most people thought it was better to go 1/2 the thickness of whatever it was you were putting a dutchman joint in. So in my case they were 1 1/2" mortises. I also did some on the bottom side offset from the top for 'extra' precaution instead of just going all the way through for each one.

Got my legs today, i'll post up pics later today or tomorrow.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Dominick said:


> I'm going to tell you your wrong. I don't use epoxy for those. It's just a personal preference.
> Normally when inserting your bowties there is minimal to none as far as gaps. You typically want them tight. You can do whatever works for you. No right or wrong way. JMO


What I can say here from MY experience is that if you have a nice tight fit for your dutchman joints, wood glue / dust would be my pref as it's super easy to sand excess overflow when inserted, AND it's way cheaper and just as strong in that case. If you have a 'not so snug' fit, i'd use epoxy as it will most likely fill up those gaps a little better than glue would. That's just what i've encountered. I think either way works it just comes down to personal pref. and what you have available. Bottom line should be...make sure your fitment is tight! That's what I've taken away from the whole process. =) Practice makes perfect.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

picked up the legs yesterday, super heavy, should do fine to hold the weight i hope.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

barnabaas said:


> picked up the legs yesterday, super heavy, should do fine to hold the weight i hope.


Where did you get the base from and what is it from? How are you attaching the top to it?


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

looks like 3/16" plate steel.
What is it really?


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Yea, it's 3" plate steel. Has 6 holes in the top (barely visable) to screw in. Haven't checked it out yet to see if i'm going to need anything else help with attaching it to the slab yet or not.


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## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

I don't usually say this to a guy, but your legs look sweet.


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## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

the moment ive been waiting for, to see what type of legs were goin on it.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

OK! So just about all done. Sorry for the long wait. My wife convinced me to stain the table so i did. Lesson learned there is to just buy the 'ballpark color' wood your after in the end and go from there!! (sorry guys) Anyways, she's super happy with it so I am too. Happy wife = happy life. 

Has 1 coat of Zar 118 Mahogany stain on it, and 4 coats of Osmo Top Oil / Wax mixture on it. I think it should be poly'd for durability as you all know this redwood is super soft. We like the matte look though so for the moment we're eating on it. Suppose i can always re-finish it another way if need be. Learned a lot through all this. Cost me about $500 + tools in total, which is a lot cheaper than the table my wife was eye'n so I'd say it's a win. Thanks to everyone for all your help along the way, I can def. say that this noob has learned a lot and has room to grow as far as my woodworking 'hobby' is concerned. =)

(sorry for the iphone pics)


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## JB97031 (Feb 19, 2012)

I'd say you hit that out of the park. Great looking table. I have to say I really like the stain. Honestly didn't think I would, but seeing your pictures makes me feel otherwise. Most importantly your wife likes it and based on that I'm sure she won't mind when you want to open your wallet for the next project. Enjoy this one. You earned it.


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## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

did u make the legs? excellent work


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Nice conclusion...
Encore! 

(good work)


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## dbales (Jun 21, 2011)

Very nice! Makes me want one. Every aspect of this project came out great.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Hey you did a great job. I'm proud of you. You pulled it off. Even though you stained it. Uggg
I won't hold it against you. Lol. Like you said 
Happy wife,happy life. 
Enjoy.


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## Carvel Loafer (Dec 31, 2011)

Real real nice. Now I find myself drooling over slabs when I go to Windsor Plywood.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

MidGAOutdoor said:


> did u make the legs? excellent work


Thanks! I didn't. I had them made for me.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Hey you did a great job. I'm proud of you. You pulled it off. Even though you stained it. Uggg
> I won't hold it against you. Lol. Like you said
> Happy wife,happy life.
> Enjoy.


haha, yea I will always wonder what that table would've looked like without the stain. maybe table number 2 someday! =) Thanks for all your help Dom.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

JB97031 said:


> I'd say you hit that out of the park. Great looking table. I have to say I really like the stain. Honestly didn't think I would, but seeing your pictures makes me feel otherwise. Most importantly your wife likes it and based on that I'm sure she won't mind when you want to open your wallet for the next project. Enjoy this one. You earned it.


Thanks JB! That means a lot considering how good your walnut table looks!


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

barnabaas said:


> haha, yea I will always wonder what that table would've looked like without the stain. maybe table number 2 someday! =) Thanks for all your help Dom.


Hey no prob. Thats not the last table you'll make. 
I've done things before, per wife's request and i wasn't happy about. That's why you'll make more. Keep up the good work.


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## V-wiz (Jul 31, 2012)

amazing table, i love it.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

I removed a bunch of the pics in my filespace so figured i should at LEAST have one or two of the final product here.

Sorry about that guys.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

barnabaas said:


> I removed a bunch of the pics in my filespace so figured i should at LEAST have one or two of the final product here.
> 
> Sorry about that guys.


I've got an error in your pics. Try again. Lol


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Dominick said:


> I've got an error in your pics. Try again. Lol


=P I'm too dumb to figure out how to post up or share the entire folder with the pics i had here a while back. For whatever reason they decided not to show up after a while so I just put the finished product up there (post above). 

Need to get myself on another project here real soon! Damn work always getting in the way.


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## yellabret (Aug 20, 2012)

yeah - fix your links, me wants to see!!!! 

great thread, i am going to have to do some bowties on some slabs i have drying. a lot of reading and i may have missed it - but did you do them by hand because you wanted to? just wondering why you didnt want to just use a router template system like woodcraft sells. i can understand the neanderthal joy we get from doing as much by hand as possible, but in my opinion adding metal legs as opposed to slab legs takes some of that appeal away. just my $.02 and its overpriced at that. otherwise the early pics were cool, everything looked great and i learned a lot, just want to see the end product!


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

yellabret said:


> yeah - fix your links, me wants to see!!!!
> 
> great thread, i am going to have to do some bowties on some slabs i have drying. a lot of reading and i may have missed it - but did you do them by hand because you wanted to? just wondering why you didnt want to just use a router template system like woodcraft sells. i can understand the neanderthal joy we get from doing as much by hand as possible, but in my opinion adding metal legs as opposed to slab legs takes some of that appeal away. just my $.02 and its overpriced at that. otherwise the early pics were cool, everything looked great and i learned a lot, just want to see the end product!


final product is 3 posts up. i did them (bow-ties) by hand because i didn't have a router. I also read that they can be more difficult to get a 'flat' edge to them using templates and that by hand would be best to get a flat edge. So that's why i choose to do it by hand. Plus it was a nice learning experience. I understand the pref. for wood legs, but it's the style my wife and i wanted so while it cost a bit more to use metal vs. wood legs, she loves the look of it so it was successful.  Each to their own right. :thumbsup:


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## USMCSergeant (Aug 21, 2012)

Any more detailed pictures of the legs, or plans used? Looking for the same type of plan for a project.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

this is all i have for the legs.


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## USMCSergeant (Aug 21, 2012)

Perfect! Thanks, that will help a lot!


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Go for it Sarg....


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## yellabret (Aug 20, 2012)

good design on those legs, no worries of wobble there.


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## MagGeorge (Jul 5, 2012)

Oh, wow !!! I like the outcome. I take it as a “modern nature” approach. Minimalistic feel. It suits well with your home.


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