# SawStop Owners advice needed



## SDVike (May 16, 2018)

Good afternoon. I am new to the forum and I was wondering if some SawStop Professional owners could provide me some advice. Here's my situation. I currently own a 1952 Craftsman Contractor saw. It has an upgraded fence. It is a very nice saw for the $100 I paid for it. Unfortunately, it is also major pain to move. I've always had the plan to build a table saw station out of it. I've just never had the opportunity to do that. 

We are nearing finish of our basement. All I have left is trim work and some floating shelfs. I also want to build a rustic TV stand and a giant Barn door. As many of you have experienced, if I don't build something in the next 3-4 months, my wife will buy one. I'm sick of buying something because i dont have the proper shop/tool space. 

I can finally afford to buy a nice cabinet saw. After shopping around, I've decided to get a SawStop Cabinet saw with 36" rip fence. I plan on getting the industrial mobile base with it. As much as I like my Craftsman, I really would like a riving knife, blade protection, zero clearance blade inserts. I have 9 and 11 year old boys that I want to teach wood working to. The safety blade is a huge plus to that endeavor. I also feel a proper base will make my saw more practical to my shop space.

So here is my dilemma. I'm torn between the 1.75 hp and the 3 hp. It sucks that the Saw Stop motors cannot be rewired. My current shop (3rd stall of a 3 car garage) has a dedicated 20amp ckt, but there is no 220 to the garage. Its not real practical to run 220 either. If I knew this space was destined to stay my shop, I pay someone to run the 220. Its not. In the next 3 years, I plan on building a 28x60 building that will be home to my shop. So here is my dilema, do I...

A. Get the 3 hp and run 220 to the existing garage. This adds about $700 to the purchase cost due to the need to run the 220. Plus that 220 plug will never get used once the new shop is built.
or
B. Get the 1.75 hp and be able to use it right away. I'm wondering if the 3 hp motor can be swapped for the 1.75 hp one in a couple of years. I looked at SawStops part list and its listing as $400. 

Are there any 1.75 hp owners out there that regret not getting the 3hp? Anyone swap out the motors?
Thanks for the input.

Bonus question....Is the SawStop router lift worth the cost? It appears there are better priced lifts out there. What have other people installed in their saw?


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Years ago, I bought a 12" radial arm saw. In deciding which to choose 110v vs 220v it was a no brainer. I found that 220v required a 12 gauge wire and the cost of the wire alone was 1/2 the cost of running a 110v circuit which required a much larger wire. In my case the wire was about 80 feet thru the floor joists in my basement. You may be able to run your wire, then use an electrician to do the final hookup to save a big chunk of money.


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

If you know where your new shop will be buy enough underground cable to run from your house to your shop. Just run that cable to the shop you have now and coil up the excess. :wink:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A different approach ...*

You said:
So here is my dilemma. I'm torn between the 1.75 hp and the 3 hp. It sucks that the Saw Stop motors cannot be rewired. My current shop (3rd stall of a 3 car garage) has a dedicated 20amp ckt, but there is no 220 to the garage .....

A dedicated 20 AMP circuit will have 12 GA wire run to it.... typically.:smile2:
A 3 HP motor will run on 12 GA wire so ..... there is no need to run separate or additional wires. A qualified electrician can change the breaker in the panel and allow you to run your 3 HP on the existing 12 GA wire, based on the current draw on the motor name plate or electrical specs from Saw Stop. Starting current is always somewhat greater than running current and drops almost immediately after the motor is running....less than a second.

I have about 5 - 3 HP motors running on 12 GA wire and 20 AMP double pole breakers all over the shop. They work just fine. My 5 HP table saw has a 30 AMP circuit.


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

I can’t address the 1 1/2 hp SS, but I bought the 3 hp PCS & never regretted it. I work with a fair amount of 8/4 hardwoods & the saw breezes through it with a full kerf Forrest blade with an ease I never found with lower hp saws. 

I bought my saw with the Professional Integrated Mobile Base, not the Industrial Base. I like it. It’s a retractable tricycle base, making it both stable & maneuverable with the added convenience of its smaller footprint. 

I also sprung for the overarm dust collection. It’s a nice feature. 

I really like the ease with which everything can be switched out. 
Blade guard, riving knife, blade brake, dado brake are all removed/replaced in seconds without the need of tools. It is a convenient tool to use. 

I don’t know if a 3 hp motor can replace a smaller, but I suspect that a call to SS’s Customer Service could get you an answer. 

Either way you go, you’ll enjoy your saw. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nxtgeneration (Feb 22, 2016)

I have the 1.75 hp w/ 52" fence. I purchase the 1.75 because I found a ridiculous deal on it lightly used and found that you are able to swap motors down the road. So far the saw has provided me with plenty of power, but I rarely cut anything larger than 6/4. I have the integrated mobile base but with the large fence I do not move it. It was a huge help it getting the saw positioned when I purchased it. I also have a woodpecker lift and fence along with a 3.25 hp porter cable router. I really like the lift and fence but I have never used the sawstop version so I cannot speak to that.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Free advice. ...I already paid the price, so it is free to you:

1. Let your wife buy the barn door right away. There may be untold benefits to this choice that you both may enjoy immediately, and that also may not be recognized or realized until years from now. Not only will you deftly avoid denying or delaying your wife's desires... you will then have more tangible evidence of the justification for you and the boys to build things yourselves, because besides the expense of the barn door, you will be able to point out how shoddily it is built. And you will have all the hardware for rebuilding it later, when you do get your shop. And, if you didn't deny her wishes, she will have a more difficult time denying yours, and you will have a lot of wishes, once your shop gets underway.

2. Run 220 into the garage. Permanently. Get it permitted. Size the wire for a _minimum_ of 30 amps. Consider 50 amps. Your boys will be driving electric cars, and will need to charge them. Seriously. GM's CEO Mary Barra recently announced that GM will have 20 different models of electrified vehicles by the time your boys are old enough to get their licenses in 2026. Multiply that times every other competing car company, and factor in the increasing taxes on fossil fuels, to get a sense of the metastasization of plug in vehicles on the immediate horizon.

3. Build the shop first before buying the big tools. The shop will appreciate, while the tools depreciate, and newer tools with improved features are always around the corner anyway. Get by with what you have. Put the money you save not buying tools now into accelerating the schedule for your shop build. The SawStop you are talking about will consume more room than your current saw, and you may become clutter locked in your confined single car space, especially when you might need a covered and secure place to receive, store, and stage materials out of the weather and away from thieves, if those materials arrive out of sequence as your shop is being built. Pick up a rolling base for the '52 Craftsman that already has the nice fence. $80 new, $40 used on craigs. Zero clearance inserts are $16 to $30 each. For less than $200, you can completely transform and upgrade the utility, usability, and mobility of your current table saw. Contrast that to the $4,000 for a SawStop, just to make a TV stand real quick before the wife finds one. 

4. When you do get the SawStop, get the 3HP one. If you have to sell it later, that will be the one that people serious enough to buy the saw will want. And you will enjoy knowing you have the power to rip through whatever you throw at it when you have your shop running full tilt, making all the things that you never had the space to do before. The space is key though. Space before stuff.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Thanks to @Mad for pointing out the car charging aspect when considering 220 volt power for the garage. I am getting serious about installing a subpanel in my garage to include 220 volt power for tools. Now I will make sure that it can also handle car charging. We'll see if we need a new main panel for that many amps, though.


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

Mad hit it, very unlikely that 220 in the garage will go unused....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*doncha love it ...*



Tool Agnostic said:


> Thanks to @*Mad* for pointing out the car charging aspect when considering 220 volt power for the garage. I am getting serious about installing a subpanel in my garage to include 220 volt power for tools. Now I will make sure that it can also handle car charging. We'll see if we need a new main panel for that many amps, though.


The driverless cars that all the teenagers want will need mega AMPS of charging power from your electric meter saving the environment "in theory" from carbon dioxide pollution from internal combustion engines.
Those mega AMPs of power will have to be solar generated to stay green and not harm the environment except visually. Wind farms are great to look at also, dead birds piled up at the bottoms of the towers. I personally am waiting for the monorail to come down my 2.5 miles of gravel roads so I jump on and run into town for fresh vegetables. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256
I heard that Ford is no longer going to produce cars...... can that be possible? Good thing I'm a Chevy guy, I'll still need parts for my '04 pickup. I'm increasing the air pressure in my mountain bike tires per Al Gore's suggestion to get better mileage. We are going back to horses I hope. I love the smell of a horse barn.


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## SDVike (May 16, 2018)

Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I feel that the general consensus is to get the 3 hp. Mad makes a great point about the 220 plug not going to waste due to the rise of electric cars. In fact, that point makes me rethink my entire garage wiring approach. 

The builder wired the garage for a single 15amp ckt (WHY OH WHY MUST THEY DO THAT). My plan was to add one 20 amp ckt to the 3rd stall of the garage so I can run all the tools off of it. That ckt was to build back to my house panel in the basement. I have all the plugs installed but I don't have the run from the basement done. Planning for the future with electric cars, I think I will run a sub panel to the garage instead. I'll have them size it so we can plug in 3 cars at once. Once I have the sub panel, wiring costs and time delays are minimal.

MAD, I have been following your advice for 10 years. It is why I'm in the position to buy a $3000 saw. Now I am ready to move on. Unfortunately, the new shop will cost anywhere between 60 and 80K. A 3K saw will not significantly delay its install.

My table saw has gotten me through a ton of projects but its isn't any smaller then the Saw Stop. With the motor hanging off the back, its actually deeper. It only has a 30" rip capacity which makes it slightly narrower. The biggest issue is its portability. I built a base for it years ago that was poorly thought out when it came to moving it. To move it, I had to lift it up onto the drop down castors. Since the whole thing weighs about 500 lbs, l really struggled lifting it up. Finally, I just left in the lifted position. That leaves the saw surface sitting at an angle. The saw will roll if enough pressure is pushed in the right direction. Not fun while cutting. 

Yes, I can put more money and time into an old saw but I would rather spend that on the future. Basically, every purchase between now and when the new building gets built will be done with the idea it will be used there. I also think that is why I need to get the 3hp. Its the future. 

Thanks Everyone.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Electric cars are coming no doubt, but for the foreseeable future they'll have to keep competing with internal combustion engines and the oil industry. As far as driverless cars, that can't happen soon enough, but they too will have to compete with the millions upon millions of people who think they and they alone are the greatest drivers to ever sit upon anything with 4 wheels. You'll hear those terms "freedom and choice"thrown about along with big gubnit takeover for a long time. Never will you hear about silly arrogance and the betterment of society as a whole.. 

Oh yeah, saws? I forgot.. I'm at the age that I know that at some point in the not so distant future I'll have to give up the shop. I'll be 60 soon which means 80 ain't that much further and I don't want to be cutting off fingers at 80. I do want to go with Sawstop, but I'm probably not going to need an abundance of power for the stuff I'll actually be cutting.


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## PA WOODCHUCK (Feb 11, 2018)

I have a Jet Proshop w/1.75hp and pleased with the power it has. Do U really need 3hp? Also being handy I added my 220v outlet along with making a 12gauge 20ft cord.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

Mad has some good points. As for the SawStop, I've got the industrial version with 5hp. It's because employees use it and push it to its limits when ever possible. Good saw. For personal use I'd go with the 3hp version. For a short time I had a Delta contractors saw. A total dog @ 1.5hp. Like has been said, a 20 amp 120V circuit can be converted to 220V with a simple change out on each end. Same wiring. But if there will be a 120V item on that same machine you will need a neutral which you won't have on a 3 wire conversion. Ground should never be used for neutral. A new sub panel in the garage might be an option. It could be fed from the house panel. Locally I think the code will allow up to 100A main panel sub-breaker (not the size of the main breaker) to feed a sub.


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## P89DC (Sep 25, 2017)

Mad said:


> ... Run 220 into the garage. Permanently. Get it permitted. Size the wire for a _minimum_ of 30 amps. Consider 50 amps. Your boys will be driving electric cars, and will need to charge them....


This is what I was thinking too. Never regret have lots of power in a garage. And don't forget a welder.....


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> The driverless cars that all the teenagers want will need mega AMPS of charging power from your electric meter saving the environment "in theory" from carbon dioxide pollution from internal combustion engines.
> Those mega AMPs of power will have to be solar generated to stay green and not harm the environment except visually. Wind farms are great to look at also, dead birds piled up at the bottoms of the towers. I personally am waiting for the monorail to come down my 2.5 miles of gravel roads so I jump on and run into town for fresh vegetables.
> https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256
> I heard that Ford is no longer going to produce cars...... can that be possible? Good thing I'm a Chevy guy, I'll still need parts for my '04 pickup. I'm increasing the air pressure in my mountain bike tires per Al Gore's suggestion to get better mileage. We are going back to horses I hope. I love the smell of a horse barn.


 I get the zero sum game you illustrate... we abandoned horses in order to get to where we are going faster, and end up killing our environment and ourselves sooner as a result. In the very big picture, what have we gained?

However, I did want to point out that I was referring to plug in electric and plug in electric hybrid cars, _*not*_ self driving cars. Electric cars that make economic sense are already here now. I have a house in one neighborhood were the majority of all new cars purchased are either hybrid, electric, or fuel cell. I once took a photo where every car parked on my street... EVERY car... was a hybrid electric. And that was 3 years ago. Today, I have neighbors who have two electric cars in their garage, and next door to them is a fuel cell car owner, followed by another plug in electric... etc. Talk about keeping up with the Joneses! 

One neighbor wrecked his Prius, and wanted to get a plug in Tesla, but couldn't, due to not having 220 in his garage. At 80 years old, he figured it wasn't worth the stress and hassle dealing with the home owner's association, as well as the city, to get all the permits needed to modify and extend the electrical circuit, given the number of driving years he felt he had left. But all that is really needed is a 30 amp dryer circuit. It doesn't take a big 100 amp subpanel. 

The only reason I suggested consider 50 amps is because the galactic distribution of round tuits is not always evenly spread, and if the OP, for whatever reason, never got around to building the shop, then a 50 amp circuit would enable the use of a good welder, and/or a good stationary air compressor, if the garage has to put in more years of duty as a makeshift shop. If it were me, I'd run cable for the 50 amp capacity, because the work to do the installation is more costly to me (especially if I am doing the work) than the difference in the price of the wire. But for charging cars, 30 amps is adequate.

The point is, some communities are adopting electric cars wholesale. The local Starbucks has a free charging station. The pizza parlor has a charging station that charges. (in both ways, ha ha). And yet, some communities can't afford to yet. I have a house in different neighborhood a few dozen miles away where there is a pickup truck in every driveway, and most vehicles are at least a decade old. But even amidst this bluer socioeconomic strata, there are quite a few older Prius hybrids running right along side the 1970 two tone Ford Maverick with the original paint and hubcaps that I've seen shuffling around the neighborhood for well over 30 years, driven by a chain smoking lady with her elbow poking out of her fully rolled down window and always a lit cigarette dangling from her fingers. She will not likely get an electric. She may not even get lung cancer. She has made do with same polluting, pre-emissions car for nearly 50 years. I wonder if it's the same cigarette too? _"You've come a long way baby." (common back cover magazine ad from the 1970's for Virginia Slims)_

Contrast that to the guy in my high tech neighborhood who bought two Chevy Bolts in one month... his and hers. They did the math in gas savings and utility bills, and showed me the numbers. It definitely made sense, and the Bolt is like a rocket ship, both in deed and speed. I was so impressed with this latest offering from Chevy that I almost bought one. But frugality prevailed. My 13 year old Prius will have to do, right along side my 18 year old truck.

On the other hand, a universal adoption of *driver less* cars is much further off on the horizon. People often lump electric cars and driverless cars in the same category, because driverless cars are usually always electric... but there are many electric cars being made right now that are not driverless, and within the next 5 years, an entire sea change of electric car options will engulf the market. Driverless technologies will dribble in like a slow but continuous leak by comparison. We see this leak in gasoline powered cars now, like the active collision avoidance systems and driver alert technologies, as can be seen in the Subaru Outback with lane change alerts, vibrating steering wheels, 360 degree cameras mounted all over the vehicle, including one pointed at the driver. These aspects of driverless technologies will dribble into all vehicles (where the growing arm of Big Brother will one day be able to safely reach in and remotely locate and take control of the future Amber Alerts).

But that has little to do with provisioning our garages with a 220v 30 amp circuit to increase the home's resale value because it will then meet the needs of tomorrows drivers who will have an overwhelming number of options in electric cars that ultimately will make more economical sense for them to operate in their commutes as individuals (due to free charging at work, for example), irrespective of the impact on the environment in a zero sum game.

So what does any of this have to do with SawStop? Driverless car technology is so impressive, it represses operator alertness. Contrast the level of alertness required of a motorcycle operator, versus the operator of a driver less car. On a motorcycle, one is always on point. A door to a parked car can fling open any moment. Someone can change lanes without signalling. The sheer sensory involvement.... from checking for eyeballs in rear view mirrors of every car in front, to looking at the sheen on the road surface for slipperiness, to listening for changes in engine sounds in surrounding cars... awareness of everything. Compare this vigilant alertness to the "driver" we saw in the widely circulated inward facing dash cam video who was so comfortable with, and so trusting of, the driverless technology in the vehicle she was in charge of, she was looking down at her cell phone in the moments before looking up and being horrified to find that in that brief second of inattentiveness, her car was in the midst of killing a jay walking pedestrian.

Will operators put too much faith into SawStop, and become less attentive and less careful around the blade as a result? I'm not sure that 1.5 HP will cut a finger off any slower than 3 HP, but I do wonder what kind of habits might evolve from so confidently working near the cutting edge of one machine that has the technology, and then moving on to the next machine that doesn't. Might a mishap be more likely occur from having lost that "motorcycle level" of keen awareness due to the complacency that slowly crept in from using the SawStop? Another zero sum gain?




.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

"Will operators put too much faith into SawStop, and become less attentive and less careful around the blade?"
I've seen that argument used against the SawStop often. I don't buy it. 
Not so sure I buy the idea that an electric car is greener than a gas burner. It just moves the fuel burning to someone else's back yard. Very little of our electricity comes from wind/solar. If government had any balls they would be developing Thorium reactors.


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

Build the shop and then determine what wiring you will need pending what power tools you will have. Can't remember the type but there is electric cable that can be run underground with conduit. Check with an electrician on this.

Electric cars? Tesla is being sued by batteries exploding in a crash and burning up the passengers.
Wind farms are causing more ecological damage by killing birds, especially birds as eagles.
Driverless cars? Computer operated? Ever have a computer crash? Ever been hacked?
Ford will be discontinuing their line of sedans as people are buying vans, SUVs, pickup trucks.
What is the towing capacity of an electric car? Just got back from VA and saw a lot of cars and trucks pulling RVs (campers). None were electric.


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## P89DC (Sep 25, 2017)

I don't care if someone wants an electric car. What chaps my hide is the purchasers get a tax breaks. I don't think I should be subsidizing impractical cars for those with enough spare cash to do a little virtue signaling. I have one vehicle, one insurance/tax expense. Bought it with 100K miles, taking it to 300K if I can. Always get a kick out of the co-worker that brags about how great their carbon footprint is with a shiny new tax-subsidized hybrid/plug-in they park at their 3k square ft home then asks me to haul something in my pickup truck. And I'm the guy riding my bike to work....


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Guys... I'm not making the suggestion out of political correctness. This is just pure reality. The entire portfolio of Volvo cars will be electrified by 2020. That's only 1 year away. Same with Jaguar. I can't afford either of those name plates, but just the thought of these companies betting their farms on electric vehicles is instructive to a layman building a house. Bury head in sand, argue against the tree hugging, holier than thou, liberal leftists all you want, but the fact remains, there is a demand for the electrical capacity to charge vehicles in garages. The comparison numbers are $300 to $500 more per year in utility bills, versus $4,000 to $7,000 per year in gasoline. Even if those numbers are off or exaggerated by 50%, the choice is clear, especially when that is all the manufacturers are offering. 

PineKnot brought up Ford discontinuing sedans, due to selling more trucks and SUVs. That's only half the story that the media likes to play up to generate views, conflict, and debate. The other half of the story is that Ford is investing $4.5 Billion dollars into electric vehicles by the next year, and that Ford is keeping the Focus, but moving all production of that car to China. Ford wisely assumed that US truck buyers prefer trucks made in the US, so Ford will move build their trucks domestically, including their new revival of the Ranger and Bronco for 2020, while the electrified cars are built in China. But Ford intends to have 13 models of electrified vehicles available within the next 4 years. There is no doubt the tidal wave of vehicle electrification is heading quickly toward the shores of our immediate future, whether we realize it or not.

So the advice of wiring up a garage with 220 is practical, not political. It is from the point of view of eventual inevitability, not environmental fragility. It simply doesn't matter how big or how little the carbon footprint of a new electrified car is... what matters is like it or not, the vehicles in our future WILL be electrified, either partially or fully, and it would behoove anyone considering an electrical wiring change in their garage to consider the inevitability of this certain future, and justify the expense for it accordingly. That's all there is to it. None of the perceived hypocrisy matters, because plug ins are coming, in droves, like it or not.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> A dedicated 20 AMP circuit will have 12 GA wire run to it.... typically.:smile2:
> A 3 HP motor will run on 12 GA wire so ..... there is no need to run separate or additional wires. A qualified electrician can change the breaker in the panel and allow you to run your 3 HP on the existing 12 GA wire, based on the current draw on the motor name plate or electrical specs from Saw Stop. Starting current is always somewhat greater than running current and drops almost immediately after the motor is running....less than a second.
> 
> I have about 5 - 3 HP motors running on 12 GA wire and 20 AMP double pole breakers all over the shop. They work just fine. My 5 HP table saw has a 30 AMP circuit.


Woodnthings:

You always amaze me with your answers. That is a fantastic answer! Even though I have training and experience in wiring houses, shops etc. that answer would have escaped me for days. How you come up with such great answers is just amazing to me.....

Thank you for your contributions on this forum! Please keep them coming....:smile2:

Eric


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## P89DC (Sep 25, 2017)

Mad said:


> Guys... I'm not making the suggestion out of political correctness. This is just pure reality.....


"Pure reality" based on fake science driven by watermelons. Green on the outside, red on the inside. Manipulated the data to make the models "work", then used EOs to force the market into electric cars no matter how stupid and wasteful that is. Let's hope Trump can shut this foolishness down.


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