# making a grinding wheel? this is in the idea stage



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

Has anyone ever made their own grinding wheel pouring some sort of cement mixture into a mold?

It would be neat if i could make a treadle and attach it to a wheel.

Seems like a simple project, but you would need to get the mixture just right. 

i've done minimal googling, but didn't see or hear about the result of such endeavors.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I think that you could make a mold and wax the hello out of the inside.
Next, you need to score some very fine sand. I don't know if the sand sold for brick mortar is really fine enough. I'm guessing that it needs to be 60-80 grit or finer. I'm trying to recall the belt sander when I was reshaping a Narex 1/2" skew into a carver's stop chisel (sort of a 1/12). At least 60, maybe 80. Lots of oil stone, water stone and honing but I got exactly what I wished for.

I dig my sand out of a pit that I know of, 'way up the Castle River, half hour from here in the summer but maybe 10' of snow in there right now. It "feels" like maybe 80 grit. I use it with water for lapping stone slabs to use for bases for wood carvings. BUT, I have 6 x 40lbs stashed outside my basement door in the snow. Happy to mail it C.O.D.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I know nothing about making grind stones; however, keep in mind that there is a tremendous amount of centrifugal force when that thing is spinning at 1800 or 3600 rpm. It wouldn't be pretty if it exploded.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I have to say it's crossed my mind but that's all.

I think you would be better finding a chunk of soap stone and some stone carving chisels and going at it... Or Arkansas black stone!... Boy that would be a nice grinding wheel!

Good luck


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

If you haven't researched " vitrified bond " to this point you may want to do so to help determine if you want to proceed.

If I were peddling the glue wouldn't need to be very good. :laughing:


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I missed the fact that the OP was using treadle power. It probably won't turn at near 1800; so the concern isn't quite as great.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*stones have different hardness like jewels*

To be effective the stone has to be harder than the metal you are grinding. Then the binder must be strong enough to hold the grit together under force and heat generated. This ain't rocket science, but it is abrasive science, a few things are involved. I live in Michigan where a lot of stone was used for grist mills and you see them as yard decorations driving around. They are large about 2 - 3 ft in diameter. My grandpa hand a pedal powered grinder in the farm yard and I also remember a hand cranked stone on the workbench ... 60 years ago. 
I you just want to sharpen rather than remove metal then a stropping wheel made of leather and loaded with jewelers rouge or buffing compound would be a good place to start. The other thing you might try is a wooden wheel with emery cloth of various grits glued or attached in some way. :yes:


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

woodnthings: how fast do you think that the kid can pedal this contraption? 100rpm?
I think it's a hoot of an idea, to resurrect an old time piece of gear.
However, the steel in the market place was soft. It had to be, with no power tools.
A lot of sand stone is quartz-based, that ought to be hard enough, at speed, to do some basic bevel shaping. I can't bring myself to say the "S" word = sharpening!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

is this just to see if you could do it? i mean, i'm a cheap bastard, and grinding stones are cheap enough even for me to not think twice about buying one.
so, what are your intentions for it?
i know about the treadle idea, but surely you could rig up something to attach it to a treadle.


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## Tilaran (Dec 22, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> is this just to see if you could do it? i mean, i'm a cheap bastard, and grinding stones are cheap enough even for me to not think twice about buying one.
> so, what are your intentions for it?
> i know about the treadle idea, but surely you could rig up something to attach it to a treadle.


OK where do I get one of these wheels ?


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Tilaran said:


> OK where do I get one of these wheels ?


Wherever the photo was taken 

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Well, it has to be big enough to take advantage of the momentum, once you get it going. Then, it has to be wide enough to be useful in a practical sense. I think that 3" x 18" would work. . . . . . but it sure won't be easily portable!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Tilaran said:


> OK where do I get one of these wheels ?


wow, so you are talking about a big one. i was thinking of the littler ones they stock at hardware stores.

never mind


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Most motorized shop "grinders" run at a motor speed of 3750rpm, seems that's how the motor was designed. Dedicated grinders for sharpening rarely run faster than 1750rpm. In either case, you can cook the temper out of a tool edge in the blink of an eye. Sheets of flying sparks will be small comfort.
But, if you go slow and are careful, it is possible to rough out the shape of a tool.
I am a sucker for pairs of skew chisels in wood carving. My first pair of NAREX (Lee Valley) 1/2" skews come from the CZ factory at 25 degrees. By hand, I scrubbed them back to 20 and made them carving sharp. They are so good, I bought pair #2 within 10 days!

I decided that I needed another carver's stop chisel. This is double beveled, 10 degrees each side, for a total of 20. So, I used the high-speed grinder to take off the entire end of a Narex skew = squared it off. Then I established the 10 degree bevel on each face. Then, by hand, I went from oil stones to water stones to my strop. I got a 1/12 stop chisel which is the answer to my wishes. Very good steel.

I don't know how fast you can pedal this thing, especially a small stone with a low rim-speed. Going to take a very long time to get anything done. If it was a really big/old-fashioned wheel that you had in mind, for light work it would be a thrill to use. Then you could apply to the Grim Reaper and get a part time job sharpening his scythe!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*this give any ideas?*


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I think the first one is a winner.:thumbsup: Simple mechanism, not a lot of moving parts, easily portable (could ride it to where it's needed):laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Tilaran said:


> OK where do I get one of these wheels ?


I almost bought one at a flea market last summer... it was only about $25. So if you've got any good flea markets nearby, you might have luck.


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## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

Wrangler said:


> I missed the fact that the OP was using treadle power. It probably won't turn at near 1800; so the concern isn't quite as great.


i don't think i can treadle that fast.:blink:

this would be for chisels and axes and such. just a rough thing to do heavy shaping. 

i have a few stones and a diamond stone for the fine stuff.

i think about romantic ideas of a wireless shop (not talking about internet here) and this would be just a thing to consider. 

i have too many projects on my table at the moment. mallets, little gift things, wedding planning, dining table. 

this is just so i can keep dreaming.

i'm thinking some kind of sand, concrete, and some additive would do the trick. make a mold and maybe put some kind of thick metal ring in the middle so it will be embedded to put an axle through.


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## JLinWV (Dec 27, 2012)

This is the one I'm working on now, the stone was off-center and egg-shaped. Almost have it perfectly round now (not in this pic though) and am trying to figure a way of pedaling to turn it.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Put a treadle under the frame, turning a large wheel mounted on the right side. Run a belt around the wheel and the bar the handle is attached to, and it should spin pretty fast.

At least, that's how I'd try it first...


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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

In old times knife-grinders were travelling around in Sweden and sharpened all kinds of tools. 
They were travelling by bicycle and the grinding wheel was attached to the bicycle 
and treaded with the pedals.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*sharp!*

I can now have an after retirement career. :blink: Where can I get the grinding attachment and will it fit on a Harley? I may have to use a Briggs auxillary engine. I remember the shapener guy with a horse drawn wagon on the streets of Chicago, then they went to a small truck. I don't recall any bicycle mounted sharpeners.
http://thepleasanthouse.com/2008/10...l-it-may-be-the-neighborhood-knife-sharpener/

http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_34.html


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

So, what the Hello happened? Did those guys sharpen everything and we have never had to need their services again?
I recognize that steel qualities have improved, kitchen knives do hold their edges for longer.
BUT, in my kitchen, I need 4 of everything. A dull edge drives me nuts. I can and do fix those.
MY GF likes white ceramic blades for kitchen prep. I think they're brittle and they chip easily.
Mind you, they stay sharp 10X longer than steel and I don't care what you think of your steel.

Where are the sharpening people? I have a standing opportunity to teach(?) sharpening to people in my little village. Should I become one of those faceless dudes, pumping a bicycle grinder?


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> I can now have an after retirement career. :blink: Where can I get the grinding attachment and will it fit on a Harley? I may have to use a Briggs auxillary engine. I remember the shapener guy with a horse drawn wagon on the streets of Chicago, then they went to a small truck. I don't recall any bicycle mounted sharpeners.
> http://thepleasanthouse.com/2008/10...l-it-may-be-the-neighborhood-knife-sharpener/
> 
> http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_34.html


Some poor soul got kicked out and left on the road for this set up.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Fairly poor effort. I need 4x4 and snow chains.
Fortunately, my 4WD GMC Suburban 3/4T with the 454/7.6l engine
can grind through it all.

But, we have a monthly "show and tell" visit thing going in the village.
Maybe I should take a bunch of kitchen things and do them up.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Robson Valley said:


> So, what the Hello happened? Did those guys sharpen everything and we have never had to need their services again?
> I recognize that steel qualities have improved, kitchen knives do hold their edges for longer.
> BUT, in my kitchen, I need 4 of everything. A dull edge drives me nuts. I can and do fix those.
> MY GF likes white ceramic blades for kitchen prep. I think they're brittle and they chip easily.
> ...


Disposability happened. Also, a lack of skills.

I know a lot of people who have no idea that their kitchen knives are dull;  they came that way from the factory, and they've never used a decent knife. I can go to Home Depot and buy a decent handsaw that will cut OK for a year or so for fifteen bucks: most people would, therefore, choke on spending $100 to buy it and $20 every year or so to sharpen it. Same goes for things like table saw blades... it costs more to sharpen a really good one than it does to buy an OK one. And if you've never USED a good one, you have no idea that there's any difference.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*OK, I'm gonna get flamed for this*

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-diamond-hone-block-92867.html











I must have 5 of these stones all around the house and shops.
I dress my kitchen knives when I can't cut into an orange, apple or tomato without resistance. I resharpen a Stanley knife blade when it won't drag on my fingernail. I dress my lockblade folding knife about 3 times per week, more when I use it for digging dandelions in the yard or scraping a bit of rust off a piece of metal..... it's a cheapie....and I'm a cheap skate.


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## bigbo1234 (Feb 13, 2013)

Fine sandblasting sand and Portland cement would probly do the job. I will be making one I. The spring, trial and error type thing here. The materials are so cheap you could make many until the right mix is found.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-diamond-hone-block-92867.html
> 
> I must have 5 of these stones all around the house and shops.
> I dress my kitchen knives when I can't cut into an orange, apple or tomato without resistance. I resharpen a Stanley knife blade when it won't drag on my fingernail. I dress my lockblade folding knife about 3 times per week, more when I use it for digging dandelions in the yard or scraping a bit of rust off a piece of metal..... it's a cheapie....and I'm a cheap skate.


That looks pretty cool. Are they any good for chisels? I'm guessing they have for different grits.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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