# Buying a mitre box



## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

Greetings,

I am interested in purchasing a dead-on miter box. I will use it for cutting standard 2x stock so it needs to be big enough to handle 2x8s and possibly bigger. 

Background..... The only power tool I own is a bandsaw which I am very happy with. I need something to make the crosscuts that this won't accommodate because of their length. I do not want a chop saw - I want to stick with hand tools. And I have a shooting board to true up my messy free hand cuts but want something faster.

I want something that will give me 90 degrees, dead on. I am willing to pay for the quality. I do need something that is fully restored as I am not mechanically inclined and lack the ability to restore it myself. Just want to pay for something that is ready to go, saw included.

I have investigated Nobex but am not interested. I have tried Brass City but unfortunately they aren't selling tools right now. I've read great things about the Millers Fall Langdon and some of the old Stanley's, but I don't want to buy one from ebay as I am not smart enough to know what's good!

If anyone can recommend a place to get one, a specific model you like, a fair ebay listing, etc. - I'd be most appreciative. I am located in NJ if that matters.

Thanks!

Eric


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

Hi,

I found a Stanley 358 for $400. It is reported as being in great shape, extra fine. Ready to use with a sharp Simonds saw. Is that a fair price for a good unit?

Any idea on the pricing of a Millers Fall Langdon in great shape?

Thanks!

Eric


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Better try one before shelling out any money. They aren't what you think they are.


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

Thanks Hammer1. Could you tell me more about what you mean? I have not used one but am going on what I've read in articles. Both Schwarz and Ron Herman say they are great assets to have and are able to cut with great accuracy. Any details you can provide would be most appreciated.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

How much cutting are you going to do?

You state "great accuracy." Please put a number with this so we know what you mean.

* Empire Level 36191N Precision Miter Box by Empire Level *



 $60.54 $50.46  
Only 8 left in stock - order soon.
 

   (15)
 FREE Shipping
Product Description
... Empire Level 36191N Precision _Miter Box_ helps you complete a variety ...
 Tools & Home Improvement:  See all 443 items
 I do not see you needing to spend anything near $400 for a miter box.

George


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

Hi George,

I am looking to cut at 90 degrees - dead on. 

I will check out the empire. My experience with some of their other tools has warned me away from this product but I will reconsider. 

Thanks!


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Before you buy one check if it will be large enough to work with 7 1/2" wide material, I don't have one anymore to check but don't remember them with that big of a capacity.

As for accuracy when I used one many years ago I would take the box to the sharpener along with the saw and he would tune the saw to cut dead on.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Even if you were able to find a miter box large enough to cut a 2x8 on, I'd certainly bet that it wouldn't be quite as fast & easy as you think it will. I think I'd prefer a sharp, well tuned 8 or 9 point crosscut saw and a shooting board to clean it up. If your saw is tuned well and you develop a little technique, you can make a pretty accurate cut that would require only minor tweaking with the shooting board. JMO


Sent from my iPhone using woodworkingtalk.com


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I spent a few years making my living with hand miter boxes, mostly Stanley and Millers Falls. The filing of the saw makes the biggest difference. If the saw teeth aren't correctly done, the saw won't cut well, follow its track, may cut slow, jam, wander and will often run, meaning it will force itself to cut off square. 

The guides that the saw fits in are adjusted so the saw can't cut too deep and hit the metal track under the plate. However, if the saw is tipped up or down too much, the guides may not keep the blade from contacting that metal track on the ends. Touching the teeth to metal will immediately dull and ding the teeth, as with any sharp edge.

The guides have a mechanism at the top to hold the saw up while you place the work under. Making fine movements of the stock means lifting the saw, re positioning the work, dropping the saw again, three hands would be helpful, especially if the clips don't release easily or require a lever to be depressed. You don't want the saw dropping like a guillotine, treat it like a power saw and don't put anything under the blade you don't want cut. 

The saw runs in the guides by the spine on the top of the saw. Look at both the guide wear area and the underneath edges of the spine. The saw isn't held firmly, they are just guides. Once the cut starts, the kerf keeps the blade aligned. This is why sharpening correctly is so important.

Handsaws leave some fuzz on the under side and at the back. To eliminate this with a hand miter box, you need to have back up pieces that the work fits tightly to. This will limit the capacity of the saw. The capacity can also be limited by repeated sharpenings which can reduce the width of the saw body significantly. At 45 degrees, the capacity is small. You are also limited with the length of the stroke depending on the length of the saw. Replacement blades might be too short. Some boxes have a wood plate and most are too cut up to be of any use. If you want a better quality cut, these have to be replaced frequently. 

With most older boxes they don't swing past 45. The box and the work need to be clamped to something sturdy. You'll find the limit of the saw stroke, correct length or not, will be rather short and if the work moves the saw will bind. It will be a workout cutting 2x10 and larger hardwoods, if they fit, and you have to be patient and not rush it. Older boxes don't bevel unless you can stand the work on edge.

There isn't any such thing as cutting perfect cuts with a hand saw, compared to a modern SCMS. That's not to say you can't cut nice looking and fitting cuts. Hand miter boxes work best with thinner softwoods, 1/2", 3/4". They were fine trimming out houses with 2 1/2" casings and 3 1/2" baseboards, faceframes for kitchen cabinets, shelf cleats, that type of work. Excellent for very small pieces that would disappear with a power saw. When it came to cutting shelves or anything else with some width and/or thickness, ordinary crosscut handsaws were chosen.

Many of these old boxes have endured rough treatment just because of the way they operate. They can be frustrating. The operator needs to push and pull the saw straight to assist the guides. If too hard a finishing stroke is made or the saw slips out of the kerf, the saw tote jams into the front guide, both front and rear if they have a connector on top. These can be bent or the attachment compromised. The blade often jams in the cut for the above mentioned reasons. When being moved, the saw is taken out and that's when the teeth get nicked. If you use the box regularly, you will find a sharpening doesn't last that long in the best conditions. 

A hand miter box isn't going to match your stated expectations. They are fine for certain things but they need a fair amount of operator input, maybe a little additional work to some cuts as well as care and maintenance of the blade. Used ones may have issues and the parts to worry about aren't up front and visible, saws may not be correct. In perfect shape and all original, they still are a bit clunky, you learn to work with their quirks and temper expectations.


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