# accounting for kerf in cutting sheets



## hwkremer (Jul 26, 2010)

Hello, I'm new to the forum and relatively new to woodworking. I am going to start on a kitchen cabinet job in my home in the fall, starting with a single wall and working my way around.

My question is about accounting for kerf in cutting the cases from 4x8 sheets of birch. When I lay out a cut list on on the sheet I can fit three 24"x36" pieces (sides and back) and one 24"x24" piece (bottom) on one sheet, more than enough for a single 24x36 base cabinet. 

However, with a 1/8" kerf, all of these pieces are going to be slightly less than 24x36. If I leave room for the kerf on the diagram, I can't even get a single cabinet on a sheet. (see attached)

Should I just assume that the cabinets will be slightly less than 24x36?

Thanks,
Hugh


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*

I do allow for the kerf. I make loose toe kicks, so my ends are 31⅞" x 23⅞". I can get six of those out of one sheet. When doing layouts, upper cabinet stock is cut at 11⅞", and widths of cabinets don't usually exceed 32".

When I do layouts, I figure the entire project on layout sheets like you did. I lay out the largest sizes first, and try to account for all the space on each sheet. That's why it's important to do all the parts on layout sheets, not just the cabinet you are working on.

As a note, I mark each piece on the layout sheet for what it is and where it goes. That way the parts don't get mixed up. 











 





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## hwkremer (Jul 26, 2010)

*Thanks!*

Cabinetman, thanks for the good advice


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

hwkremer said:


> Hello, I'm new to the forum and relatively new to woodworking. I am going to start on a kitchen cabinet job in my home in the fall, starting with a single wall and working my way around.
> 
> My question is about accounting for kerf in cutting the cases from 4x8 sheets of birch. When I lay out a cut list on on the sheet I can fit three 24"x36" pieces (sides and back) and one 24"x24" piece (bottom) on one sheet, more than enough for a single 24x36 base cabinet.
> 
> ...


A base cabinet side isn't 24 inches wide as there is a face frame and 1/4 inch back. Even if it is euro style the side will be 1/4 inch less allowing for the back. 

The only time I can think of when the base cabinet side would be exactly 24 inches wide would be if there is no face frames and the back is let in. If you bust the sheet of plywood right down the center, you will have two sheets 23 15/16 as the the curf is around 1/8 inch. 

If anyone can see that 1/16 inch less on a cabinet side they need to be building cabinets. I don't know of anyone, even a vet cabinet man who could spot a 1/16 inch narrow cabinet side. I forgot, the euro cabinet will have an edge band so that will take up a little. I'm not trying to be a smart aleck just brain storming.

Just another thought, if you can use a separate toe kick you can get three cuts for three base cabinet sides out of one half sheet of plywood. The base cabinet side isn't 36 inches tall as you have to allow for the counter top and if you take the toe kick off the cabinet side you can get three cuts length wise for your sides. The only place I will cut a full length base cabinet side is if it is an end cabinet and there is no base molding to hide the side of the kick.

Just a couple more things and I will shut up, if you do leave the kick off be sure to recess cabinet bottom back up 3/4 inch so the bottom rail of the face frame will work out right. 

So for a base cabinet with face frames and a back, not let in, and a 3/4 inch counter top and separate toe kick, (allowing 4 inches for a kick) the side would be 23 inches wide X 36 inches full height of cabinet minus 3/4 inch for top, minus 4 inches for separate kick will = 31 1/4 inches tall so measurement of base cabinet side will be 23 X 31 1/4. 

Another note, on the separate toe kick, where the sides of the cabinet sits on the kick, the kick will be 4 inches tall but where the kick touches the bottom of the base cabinet it will be 4 3/4 inches. (remember, you had to recess the cabinet bottom back up 3/4 inch so the face frame would work out right.)


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## hwkremer (Jul 26, 2010)

*Good point*

Yes, thank you - good point. They will indeed be Euro style, but as you said, there will be a 1/4" back. That more than makes up for the kerf down the middle. 

And come to think of it, they won't even be 36" tall as there will be legs or base (I haven't decided which way to go on that yet). 

So, I guess never mind on the question


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Cabinetman posted while I was typing so scratch mine, he and I are on the same page though.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

jiju1943 said:


> Cabinetman posted while I was typing so scratch mine, he and I are on the same page though.



Just a comment on arriving at the 23⅞". I will check the width of the stock sheet first to see if it is 48" wide. If I have a good factory edge to split the sheet to two pieces of 23 15/16", then I'll do that. I'll run a block sander down the factory edge for a quick swipe just to get a feel for how good the edge is. With the good edge just cut, I'll turn it around and take off that outside edge (1/16") and wind up with 23⅞", and will have two good edges. All the pieces that get sized to 23⅞" get cut with the same fence setting.

What throws off the split, is if the sheet isn't 48", or if it's out of square. If you do plan on that center split with the same fence setting, check the sheets first to see if they are all the same.












 





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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> Just a comment on arriving at the 23⅞". I will check the width of the stock sheet first to see if it is 48" wide. If I have a good factory edge to split the sheet to two pieces of 23 15/16", then I'll do that. I'll run a block sander down the factory edge for a quick swipe just to get a feel for how good the edge is. With the good edge just cut, I'll turn it around and take off that outside edge (1/16") and wind up with 23⅞", and will have two good edges. All the pieces that get sized to 23⅞" get cut with the same fence setting.
> 
> What throws off the split, is if the sheet isn't 48", or if it's out of square. If you do plan on that center split with the same fence setting, check the sheets first to see if they are all the same.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%, you are dead on.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

hwkremer said:


> Yes, thank you - good point. They will indeed be Euro style, but as you said, there will be a 1/4" back. That more than makes up for the kerf down the middle.
> 
> And come to think of it, they won't even be 36" tall as there will be legs or base (I haven't decided which way to go on that yet).
> 
> So, I guess never mind on the question


I agree with the exception that the 1/4" back always sits inside a rabbit cut on the side panel so the back does not show from the side.

I usually make my base cabinets 35" tall.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

cabinetman said:


> I do allow for the kerf. I make loose toe kicks, so my ends are 31⅞" x 23⅞".



Actually, with a 4" toe kick, and an 1½" top, the ends will be 30½".












 





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## Webster (Mar 6, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> I do allow for the kerf. I make loose toe kicks,
> 
> .
> .


 
What are 'loose toe kicks'?
I'm thinking......more or less ......a box attached to a seperate base? 
If I'm on the right track , do you use a full lengh base (or as much as possible) and what would you do to finish off the exposed end cabinet?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Webster said:


> What are 'loose toe kicks'?
> I'm thinking......more or less ......a box attached to a seperate base?
> If I'm on the right track , do you use a full lengh base (or as much as possible) and what would you do to finish off the exposed end cabinet?



I make as long a base as a toe kick as possible. It's basically an outer shell with cross members, and gusset cleats at the corners and where the cross members intersect with the outer shell.

It's much easier to level one toe kick to level cabinets, than to level each cabinet individually. A loose toe kick also provides the ability to be shimmed underneath, or between it and the cabinet if necessary.

For finished ends, they could be recessed 3" like the front, or just a smidgen, like an ⅛" or ¼".













 





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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> Actually, with a 4" toe kick, and an 1½" top, the ends will be 30½".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see the difference between your sides and the way I build mine. I usually built my own counter tops and used 3/4 inch plywood with 1 1/2 inch edging.


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## Webster (Mar 6, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> I make as long a base as a toe kick as possible. It's basically an outer shell with cross members, and gusset cleats at the corners and where the cross members intersect with the outer shell.
> 
> It's much easier to level one toe kick to level cabinets, than to level each cabinet individually. A loose toe kick also provides the ability to be shimmed underneath, or between it and the cabinet if necessary.
> 
> ...


I see.......thank you!

Now, would you use the same material on the front/sides of the base, as the face of the cabinets? and let a quarter round cover the shims....or do you cover the recessed, level base with the same wood (veneer/laminate) when all is finished?

I've been planning to do my kitchen cabinets also, but still working on a lot of ideas.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Webster said:


> Now, would you use the same material on the front/sides of the base, as the face of the cabinets? and let a quarter round cover the shims....or do you cover the recessed, level base with the same wood (veneer/laminate) when all is finished?
> 
> I've been planning to do my kitchen cabinets also, but still working on a lot of ideas.



If you have determined in your analysis of the flooring that there are great variations of out of level, and a base shoe would look appropriate, that would be the way to go. It would be a more of a traditional method for covering any gaps. 

Some finished styles are of the contemporary look that a fitted toe kick fascia the same as the cabinet/doors, would look better than having an interrupted look with a base shoe. In that case the add on fascia should be made over sized so scribing could be done.












 





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## jraksdhs (Oct 19, 2008)

*over sized plywood*

In reference to the saw kerf...my plywood comes 48 1/2" x 96 1/2". Problem solved! 

jraks


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## scribbles (Mar 2, 2009)

jraksdhs said:


> In reference to the saw kerf...my plywood comes 48 1/2" x 96 1/2". Problem solved!
> 
> jraks


so does mine


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## claymation (Aug 24, 2010)

Google SketchUp with the CutList plugin.


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## huggie (Sep 26, 2010)

I dimension my base cabinet sides 23 ¼” X 31 ¼” and dado top ¾”/bottom ¾”/back1/2”. For mounting I attach a board to the wall at 4” (find the high spot on the floor) and ensure the board is level – that mounts the back of the base cabinet at the right height and is level. 

I install adjustable legs (I’m a LV junkie) on the front of the base cabinet and adjust them accordingly. With an uneven floor this is the fastest way to level the cabinets. The adjustable legs come with clips you attach to the kick plate and they work just fine.

After building/installing the countertop and the face frame the cabinets are 24” X 36”.


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