# Powermatic 64B



## Jafo28 (Sep 9, 2014)

Anyone have any info or opinions on this saw? I'll be moving into a new home in the next month or so, and will be setting up shop in the garage. I'm a fairly novice woodworker, and this will be my first table saw. I would love to just get a cabinet saw, but a certain amount of mobility will be required, meaning I still need to get cars into the garage. I like the idea of the five year warranty with this saw, but is that worth the money over something like a Grizzly or Jet? 
Any thoughts?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

For the price you could get a whole lot more saw with a used saw. At 1.75hp you could do as well with a old craftsman saw as long as it was upgraded with a better fence.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

For that price you could get a pretty good cabinet saw. You could also get several pretty good contractor saws as well. Im with steve, take a look at the older craftsman saws. I see em on CL around me every so often in the 50-200 range, so even at the high end of that range and, say, an incra ts-ls system, youre still getting what id consider to be an equivalent if not better saw for 1k under budget. Im sure the powermatic is a fantastic saw from a fantastic brand, but holy crap thats an expensive contractor saw. I think the only other contractor saw ive seen in that price range is the sawstop contractor, and at least that has the fancy blade stop. I wonder what makes the powermatic priced that high...

Almost forgot to add, mobile bases for table saws are a thing, and you could get a cabinet saw on one pretty easy, so i wouldnt count a cabinet saw out if you can afford it


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## woodchux (Jul 6, 2014)

You should consider what your wood working needs are now and into the future before you buy! Every TS has good features, and some not so good - regardless of the style, brand, price, or age. Consider researching (& seeing) some of the reviews related to TS's, which may give you more info in making your choice. IMO I wonder why so many more Craftsman saws are always for sale, than say Jet or Powermatic. Maybe the Craftsman does not last as long, or it is just a stepping stone to getting a better made saw. Be safe.


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## Jafo28 (Sep 9, 2014)

Thanks for the replies guys. I have seen a few older Craftsman saws on craigslist, but most are 220V. I think I forgot to put that in my original post, that i'm limited to 110V for now. 

Side note to all this. I showed the sawstop hot dog video to my wife, which was probably a mistake. Now she kind of wants me to look into one of them. Any reason I shouldn't? They are pricey, I know.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

I'd get a cabinet saw before a contractor style though your voltage limitation is going to be an issue for getting "serious" tools. Have you talked to an electrician? If you can get 220, for the price of the PM64B, you could get some flavor of the Griz 1023 cabinet saw, the shopfox mobile base and delivery. I have the 1023RLW and have nothing but good things to say after 3 weeks of use. It's on the shop fox base and it rolls beautifully. I'd definitely do it again if my saw vanished tomorrow.

If you are truly stuck on 110, then I agree with the others that say go for an older used saw. I've never seen 220V craftsman saws (not saying you're wrong, just a little surprised by your experience). You might need to build a new support base because the legs on a lot of the CMan saws are just plain flimsy. 

If you want new, you should check out the griz G0715 which can run on 110V and has a 2 HP motor. That's probably the most powerful you will get without 220V. If you are doing any kind of hardwoods, power is the name of the game. Oh yeah, the 715 is under a grand with the shopfox base and delivery. 

Sawstop. I dunno, at least double your cost at some small percentage of increased safety. Personally, I think it's more about perception than reality. I know I can slice a finger off so I am uber careful. Take lots of precautions and use things like feather boards, push sticks, grrippers, board buddies to increase my margin of safety. The real safety equipment is you and your technique.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

As far as the sawstops go, I'm very mixed. I've heard that they're good table saw, and the safety features seem to work incredibly well, but bloody hell the inventor is a tool. The other issue I have is that given the sensors issues working with things like dado stacks and green woods, most of the time I'd have the stop feature turned off anyway, so what's the point? The best safety feature is the one that's used after all.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Another thing id like to weigh in on, I think the reason there's more used craftsman saw on the market isn't because they're bad saws or inferior quality, mostly. I think its because they're cheaper new, so more people buy them first. Reason you don't see many jets or powermatics selling used is onxe you spend two grand on it, you don't ever want to get rid of it, nor do you really need to upgrade


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Jafo28 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I have seen a few older Craftsman saws on craigslist, but most are 220V. I think I forgot to put that in my original post, that i'm limited to 110V for now.
> 
> Side note to all this. I showed the sawstop hot dog video to my wife, which was probably a mistake. Now she kind of wants me to look into one of them. Any reason I shouldn't? They are pricey, I know.


Google the Sawstop accident pictures. Lots of mangled fingers. None cut off but most end up with some pretty ugly cuts. 

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

epicfail48 said:


> As far as the sawstops go, I'm very mixed. I've heard that they're good table saw, and the safety features seem to work incredibly well, but bloody hell the inventor is a tool. The other issue I have is that given the sensors issues working with things like dado stacks and green woods, most of the time I'd have the stop feature turned off anyway, so what's the point? The best safety feature is the one that's used after all.


He is in deed a tool.

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

epicfail48 said:


> Another thing id like to weigh in on, I think the reason there's more used craftsman saw on the market isn't because they're bad saws or inferior quality, mostly. I think its because they're cheaper new, so more people buy them first. Reason you don't see many jets or powermatics selling used is onxe you spend two grand on it, you don't ever want to get rid of it, nor do you really need to upgrade


After 8 months working with a Crapsman. I know why I sold it and bought a Unisaw.

Al


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

A few things I'd note...

1. I've never come across anyone that had used a sawstop that had any complaints about the saws. They're top notch quality. There are a few anti government guys on here that refuse to support sawstop because the inventor tried to get the technology mandated on all new saws. The saw isn't their complaint, it's philosophical. 

2. The old cast iron toped craftsman saws are very good. You see so many of them because they were built during the years that everyone had a tablesaw. Now sadly not near as many people build their own stuff. The newer aluminum craftsman saws should be passed on as they are junk. If you find a newer craftsman with a cast iron topped saw ( or ridgid ) they're worth a look.


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## Jafo28 (Sep 9, 2014)

Great info guys, thanks. I'll update when I make a decision.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> I've never seen 220V craftsman saws (not saying you're wrong, just a little surprised by your experience). You might need to build a new support base because the legs on a lot of the CMan saws are just plain flimsy.


 Completely disagree......................

The craftsman table saws from the late 80's and 90's were well built machines and very durable. Their worst failing was the fence system, a relatively easy fix. The motors could be wired for either 110 or 220. If you find one currently configured for 220 it is a simple wiring change to bring it back to 110.

I made a lot of money off a 1996 model Craftsman saw. My only complaint was the fence, and once I put a Vega fence on it that complaint went away. In many ways I wish I still had that saw. I upgraded to a PM2000 because the type of work I'm doing now dictated a beefier saw.

The 64B is pricey for a contractor's saw, but far better than anything grizzly makes. I would avoid grizzly like the plague. Look for a used left tilt Craftsman, or go for something in the Jet, Powermatic, or Saw Stop range.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> A few things I'd note...
> 
> 1. I've never come across anyone that had used a sawstop that had any complaints about the saws. They're top notch quality. There are a few anti government guys on here that refuse to support sawstop because the inventor tried to get the technology mandated on all new saws. The saw isn't their complaint, it's philosophical.
> 
> 2. The old cast iron toped craftsman saws are very good. You see so many of them because they were built during the years that everyone had a tablesaw. Now sadly not near as many people build their own stuff. The newer aluminum craftsman saws should be passed on as they are junk. If you find a newer craftsman with a cast iron topped saw ( or ridgid ) they're worth a look.



I just took a look at a Sawstop in the showroom. Not the least bit impressed. Good saw and will probably do well but only because of the stop thingy. You can't use a 10" dado head on them either or without buying their stop thingy for the dado head. I've never in 45 years touched the blade or had a close call. I also take offense to the anti- government crack. So put me down as the anti- nanny state guy.

I can't find any company building saws that match up to the Delta Unisaw and Powermatic that were made in the America back in the seventies. Seems the manufactures have answered the call to build it with price being paramount. Which is directly related to all the cheap tool buyers touting and pontificating about the merits of buying and owning Crapsman and HF tools. You just don't read any threads about how wonderful these tools are but there are a plethora of threads on fixing and tuning them. I understand why some need to buy them but it wanes thin when the recommendations start flying. 

I had a cast iron Crapsman that had legs that wouldn't hold it still and manhole covers for wings and a fence that may as well have stayed in the box. It was underpowered and tilting to 45 was more like 43 or 44 until you gave it an extra beatin. The top was warped until I replaced the fence with a Biesy and pulled it flat. The grates made good stepping stones so my wife didn't have to step in the mud coming to the shop. But I did like the yellow dot to mark the cut line on.

As far as the Sawstop inventor goes. EVERYONE should be up in arms mad as hell at what he tried to do. God love the men and women that see fit to retain the few liberties we still have.

Al B Thayer


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Al B Thayer said:


> After 8 months working with a Crapsman. I know why I sold it and bought a Unisaw.
> 
> Al


Sounds like you got the bad apple there mate. I've got what u assume is a mid 80's model, and its always worked great for me. The fence sucks, I won't argue against that in the least, but the saw itself is solid. Maybe its a difference in age, if yours was a mid 90's I could see it being markedly worse. Seems like quality control went to hell that decade


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I agree with the guy on getting used tools. You probably get a table saw, miter saw, radial arm saw, drill press and then some made by craftsman for the price of just the one saw you are looking at. The older Craftsman were built to last compared to the new stuff. If you are handy with the tools, then you could fix them up to your likings and have an awsome shop. I am waiting on a guy to get back home who is selling a Craftsman Radial Arm Saw that was either Late 50's through late 60's for $20. I just like how the older tools look.


Jafo28 said:


> Anyone have any info or opinions on this saw? I'll be moving into a new home in the next month or so, and will be setting up shop in the garage. I'm a fairly novice woodworker, and this will be my first table saw. I would love to just get a cabinet saw, but a certain amount of mobility will be required, meaning I still need to get cars into the garage. I like the idea of the five year warranty with this saw, but is that worth the money over something like a Grizzly or Jet?
> Any thoughts?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I just took a look at a Sawstop in the showroom. Not the least bit impressed. Good saw and will probably do well but only because of the stop thingy. You can't use a 10" dado head on them either or without buying their stop thingy for the dado head. I've never in 45 years touched the blade or had a close call. I also take offense to the anti- government crack. So put me down as the anti- nanny state guy.
> 
> I can't find any company building saws that match up to the Delta Unisaw and Powermatic that were made in the America back in the seventies. Seems the manufactures have answered the call to build it with price being paramount. Which is directly related to all the cheap tool buyers touting and pontificating about the merits of buying and owning Crapsman and HF tools. You just don't read any threads about how wonderful these tools are but there are a plethora of threads on fixing and tuning them. I understand why some need to buy them but it wanes thin when the recommendations start flying.
> 
> ...



First off....I wasn't calling you out at all.....there are a few other guys that don't like them either because of the "owner's actions"

In regards to the quality.....why would you want to use a dado blade without the cartridge if you spent a bunch to get a saw that has the safety feature? Did you look under the top, the sawstops are built like a tank! What specifically did you think was underbuilt and which model did you look at? 

In regards to the craftsman cast iron saws....why aren't there a whole bunch of other guys who think they were terrible? Instead, there's a bunch of guys that love those saws.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

If I had to spend money on new Craftsman. I would think twice. I have a Craftsman miter saw with laser track that is almost 8 yrs old. the Arm that controls the angles broke off a year ago. I had less than 100 uses on it. The saw still looked brand new. I have heard good things on the older craftsman, because of the quality of them being built. So myself will go with the Vintage Craftsman. I can get a lot for $1500 saw the guy was asking about.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

CherryWoodWorker said:


> If I had to spend money on new Craftsman. I would think twice. I have a Craftsman miter saw with laser track that is almost 8 yrs old. the Arm that controls the angles broke off a year ago. I had less than 100 uses on it. The saw still looked brand new. I have heard good things on the older craftsman, because of the quality of them being built. So myself will go with the Vintage Craftsman. I can get a lot for $1500 saw the guy was asking about.


Yeah, the newer stuff isn't nearly as good as the older gear, but I think that's true of any brabd nowadays


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I am waiting on a guy to get back home who is selling a Craftsman Raidial Arm Saw from 1958 to 1968 time frame. I will be picking it up for $20. I have an eye on a 1950's Craftsman Bench Saw with has the cabinet that it original for you to purchase back then. Original guide and the other tool to push the lumber. The wrench and I think 6 blades. All for $50. I know I will have to clean it up.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I might pass on the table saw. Where do you live, we might be able to find you some better options for table saws.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I live in Colorado Springs, Colorado. I don't know why, I just love Craftsman Tools. The saw is running, just needs a little tlc.plus it fits my budget. :yes:


ryan50hrl said:


> I might pass on the table saw. Where do you live, we might be able to find you some better options for table saws.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

These are the models of craftsman saws that are pretty highly regarded. I will say saws are going for a lot of money in your area

Might want to get more pictures. Could be a steal for 75 bucks 

http://boulder.craigslist.org/tls/4732397404.html

Good buy if it's in good shape. 

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/4731749390.html


Nice saw with a decent fence. 

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/tls/4731031156.html


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I just took a look at a Sawstop in the showroom. Not the least bit impressed.
> 
> Al B Thayer



Al, not trying to start a pissing match but still interested in knowing what you thought was lacking in build quality. I'm considering upgrading at some point and I'd be interested in your thoughts


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## Ryan McMurray (Jul 1, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I just took a look at a Sawstop in the showroom. Not the least bit impressed. Good saw and will probably do well but only because of the stop thingy. You can't use a 10" dado head on them either or without buying their stop thingy for the dado head. I've never in 45 years touched the blade or had a close call. I also take offense to the anti- government crack. So put me down as the anti- nanny state guy. I can't find any company building saws that match up to the Delta Unisaw and Powermatic that were made in the America back in the seventies. Seems the manufactures have answered the call to build it with price being paramount. Which is directly related to all the cheap tool buyers touting and pontificating about the merits of buying and owning Crapsman and HF tools. You just don't read any threads about how wonderful these tools are but there are a plethora of threads on fixing and tuning them. I understand why some need to buy them but it wanes thin when the recommendations start flying. I had a cast iron Crapsman that had legs that wouldn't hold it still and manhole covers for wings and a fence that may as well have stayed in the box. It was underpowered and tilting to 45 was more like 43 or 44 until you gave it an extra beatin. The top was warped until I replaced the fence with a Biesy and pulled it flat. The grates made good stepping stones so my wife didn't have to step in the mud coming to the shop. But I did like the yellow dot to mark the cut line on. As far as the Sawstop inventor goes. EVERYONE should be up in arms mad as hell at what he tried to do. God love the men and women that see fit to retain the few liberties we still have. Al B Thayer


I've used a delta for years and worked with a pm 2000 for longer. I bought the sawstop because of the brake "thingy". I have seen waaaaaaayy too many very experienced older carpenters hurt themselves on tablesaws. It takes 1 check in board you don't see to have things go terribly wrong. For that, it was well worth the extra price. The saw stop is an extremely well built saw and I have been beyond satisfied with the saw and their customer service( much much better than Delta and Powermatic). A board kicked back on me (with the riving knife in) and fed my hand through. I would have chopped off my entire thumb and probably my index and middle finger tip. All I had was a minor minor knick. Didn't even draw blood. Paid for itself right then. It doesn't matter how much safety one takes, it's the stuff you don't expect that end up being the worst. If you can afford it, buy it. It doesn't matter how much of a "tool" the owner is (just look at congress, it's full of them) he has an awesome product that actually works and works well (unlike congress). At the end of the day a saw is a saw and I've seen amazing work done with the worst ones out there. If safety is a big concern buy a sawstop, if price is buy a used better quality craigslister, for me the safety was worth waaaay more than what the charge.


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## pv74 (Oct 30, 2014)

Started out with the Craftsman, then a Hitachi..and finally got tired of it. After having a Unisaw for the past few years, I would not trade it for anything but a Powermatic 66 (slightly heavier saw). There is no comparison. A cabinet saw takes the same footprint as a contractors saw...it's just heavier and generally requires 220V (which is easier than you'd think to wire an outlet for). When I first got my Unisaw I lived in a rental unit. I rigged an extension cord out of 10 gauge cable and plugged it into the dryer outlet (wife wasn't happy). 

A cabinet saw can easily be put on a mobile base...even one with a 52" fence...I built a router table into my extension table and put drawers under it for more storage space. I built the mobile base out of 2x4s, some angle iron and heavy duty casters from Lowes.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

home saw - delta unisaw. work saws - sawstop cabinet, grizzly cabinet, delta unisaw, delta contractor (about to be replaced by a sawstop contrator). 

best saw out of this group - sawstop cabinet, worst saw grizzly. i give the nod to sawstop as best because of the stop feature. 

fwiw - i can't imagine not being able to use a 10" dad set as a problem, as most are 8". also, only having 120 v will get you most home size tools, incl a nice 1.5 hp ts.


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## Jafo28 (Sep 9, 2014)

Made my decision, and picked up my new Sawstop PCS yesterday. Just moved into the new house, and haven't had a chance to put it together yet.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm jealous...I drool over the pcs sawstop everytime I go to the local woodcraft.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Have nothing against the Saw Stop table saw. My contention is anything manmade can and will fail. I would be concerned that people might take chances that they would never take with a standard saw. To me it comes under false security. I guess I'll stick with my 30 year old Unisaw Anyway, good luck with the new saw.

Paul


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## Ryan McMurray (Jul 1, 2012)

Jafo28 said:


> Made my decision, and picked up my new Sawstop PCS yesterday. Just moved into the new house, and haven't had a chance to put it together yet.


Awesome!! You're gonna love it and it is well worth every penny! It would be eating me up alive to have that thing just sitting in my house though. I'd have to get it up and running immediately! Congrats!


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