# shellac vs poly or both



## Jason641 (Aug 11, 2011)

I know I will probably get differing viewpoints on this subject but I need some opinions...

I just built a bed frame/headboard/footboard out of red oak. I have already stained it with one coat of minwax cherry stain and it looks great. Now I need to put some kind of finish over it and that is where I want some recommendations. 

I have read some things that say to use shellac under poly and others that say do not use shellac under poly. I really like the way the bed frame looks with only the stain on it so I do not want to change the color. 

Should I use a clear shellac then poly for protection? 

Should I just use Shellac since I probably don't need the additional protection of poly since I wont have drinks/hot stuff/cold stuff sitting on it at all.

Should I just use Poly? Satin, semi gloss, or gloss? 

Any recommendations or pictures of finished products that you can share will be appreciated. Thanks.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

The time when you HAVE to use shellac under poly is when you have a very oily wood such as cocobolo, and then you have to use dewaxed shellac, otherwise I don't think it is every required, but will never hurt.

What I would do is just use shellac if you don't mind a shiny surface, or are willing to carefully buff the final coat with a low enough grit to rough it up but not SCRATCH it up noticeably. Better if you want a less shiny coat would be poly (shellac first or not, up to you) of whatever degree of gloss you want.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Jason641 said:


> I know I will probably get differing viewpoints on this subject but I need some opinions...
> 
> I just built a bed frame/headboard/footboard out of red oak. I have already stained it with one coat of minwax cherry stain and it looks great. Now I need to put some kind of finish over it and that is where I want some recommendations.
> 
> ...











Used singularly both shellac or oil base polyurethane (or oil base interior varnish) will add an amber tone. Do a sample and see what you get. It's not necessary to use shellac. You could just thin the poly and make a wiping version. You didn't state if you have the ability to spray a finish. A waterbase polyurethane can be applied over the stain, and will stay clear. It works best when sprayed, but can be brushed on.












 







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## Jason641 (Aug 11, 2011)

I don't mind the slight change in color that will come from a clear finish. I just won't use an amber shellac or something similar that will change the color a lot. I will not be spraying it... so either a regular brush, foam brush, or wiping it on are my options. What is the best way to apply?

I have done a number of projects in the past with just stain and a few coats of poly with good results. I am just trying to get the best possible look out of this project and thought I might try something new. I have some Bulls eye clear shellac and some Minwax satin and gloss poly on hand, but will go buy something else if you all recommend something.

Thanks for the help.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Jason641 said:


> I don't mind the slight change in color that will come from a clear finish. I just won't use an amber shellac or something similar that will change the color a lot. I will not be spraying it... so either a regular brush, foam brush, or wiping it on are my options. What is the best way to apply?
> 
> I have done a number of projects in the past with just stain and a few coats of poly with good results. I am just trying to get the best possible look out of this project and thought I might try something new. I have some Bulls eye clear shellac and some Minwax satin and gloss poly on hand, but will go buy something else if you all recommend something.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


I did. I recommended clear waterbase polyurethane for a clear finish. I wouldn't use shellac. If you use oil base polyurethane, I would use satin, thinned about 50% for the first coat or two, and then 25% for the rest, wiped on with a smooth rag (like "T" shirt material), folded into a square pad.












 







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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

ps poly should not be used over shellac. states that right on the can of bulls eye. whould state that on other brands. shellac and poly is a bad combo.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

jack warner said:


> ps poly should not be used over shellac. states that right on the can of bulls eye. whould state that on other brands. shellac and poly is a bad combo.


Actually, DEWAXED shellac and poly is a good combo. I have used it on hundreds of bowls and it's great.


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## Jason641 (Aug 11, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I did. I recommended clear waterbase polyurethane for a clear finish. I wouldn't use shellac. If you use oil base polyurethane, I would use satin, thinned about 50% for the first coat or two, and then 25% for the rest, wiped on with a smooth rag (like "T" shirt material), folded into a square pad.


Thanks. That is what I was going to do to start with before I started to think about it too much.





jack warner said:


> ps poly should not be used over shellac. states that right on the can of bulls eye. whould state that on other brands. shellac and poly is a bad combo..


I did read that on the can but I have seen a number of differing viewpoints where people say they have done it for years.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

phinds said:


> Actually, DEWAXED shellac and poly is a good combo. I have used it on hundreds of bowls and it's great.


dewaxed would be ok for some. poly has a hard time sticking to itself, so using either imo not the best idea. i prefure a varnish over poly. poly depends on a mechanical bonding. instead of dw shellac your better off diluting a couple of 50-50, poly and ms, coats to bond to the wood. 
if you use a wb poly over an oil stain then i recomend a dewaxed shellac first.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

jack warner said:


> if you use a wb poly over an oil stain then i recomend a dewaxed shellac first.


Waterbase polyurethane over an oil base stain is my usual finish. I don't use shellac. Once the stain is dry, any topcoating can be applied.












 







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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> Waterbase polyurethane over an oil base stain is my usual finish. I don't use shellac. Once the stain is dry, any topcoating can be applied.
> 
> 
> 
> im just converting on some project to wb top coats. i tested about 10 dif ones, 3 that said was made for going over oil stains. in my testing all of them beaded up a bit, witch bothered me. so i tested them with a dw shellac and it eliminated the problem. still on the fence for long term durability of wb stuff. for exterior project i still use oil.


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## Jason641 (Aug 11, 2011)

Thanks for the discussion everyone, I am going to try out some shellac on some scrap wood and compare it to poly so I can see the difference. 

For my bed frame I ended up using Satin Poly and it looks great. I got 2 coats on it yesterday, I sanded with 320 between coats and the second coat is like glass. May do 1 more coat tonight.


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