# Table Saw Questions



## rsriverrat (Dec 30, 2008)

i have done alot of reading and research in looking to upgrade from a bench top delta 36-560(crappy fence, non standard miter slots, etc), and am considering a few different model table saws, however most of the things i see people talk about are the miter guage slots and fence systems, which basically can make or break a saw, but what i *NEVER* see anyone contemplate is the insert for making zci's. maybe its just me (because i am cheap/frugal) but i consider that as just an important decision as the fence or miter slots as i am not gonna go and buy a plastic zci blank for 20 bucks when i can make one from offcuts.

i have looked at owners manuals for pics of the inserts, and it seems to me that the most popular hybrid/contractor saws use proprietary inserts, with the exception being the delta 36-979 that lowes sells which has a deep 1/2 or 5/8 semi standard insert..

i am leaning towards a hybrid rather then a contractor saw so i dont have to buy again in a yr when i outgrow it. the saws i am considering are the contractors from lowes delta 36-979 plus t2 30" fence, which i think is a good deal at 550 after a 10% off coupon i have, or a local industrial tool supplier has a hybrid shopfox w1748 but it has what appears to be a 1/4 insert that doesnt look like u can readily make a zci and the only blank insert i can find online is like 35 bucks. i dont really have an other options other then a sears 22124 which i cant go look at in person because none of my stores have them in stock, ditto for the ridgid 3650 along with its non standard appearing insert...

so..... whats ya'lls take on the zci front and the saws i have to choose from?

thanks alot


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## WRDinAZ (Jan 4, 2009)

What is a 'zci'?


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## tl_foster (Dec 12, 2008)

*zci =*



WRDinAZ said:


> What is a 'zci'?


zci = zero clearance insert

It is used around the blade.:yes:


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I suppose the reason you don't read much about the inserts is that it's largely a non-issue to most people. Some saws have more standard type inserts than others and are easier to make than some, but it seems kind of bass ackwards to avoid certain models because you'd need to spend $20 for an insert on a $500-$1000 saw. It's important to have a flat stable insert, but I don't view it as being a critical purchase decision like the fence and overall features and feel of the saw. It's possible to buy or make a ZCI for just about any saw on the market.

AFAIK, the 22124 takes a standard Delta insert. If you like the Shop Fox hybrid, the Grizzly G0478 is the same saw. There's a new Ridgid R4511 hybrid coming out very soon for $599....I know nothing about the insert for the R4511, but Steel City is heavily involved with it's design and manufacture, and it's very similar to the newer Steel City hybrids so maybe the folks from SC could give you more info about that.


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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

I don't understand why you can't make a throat plate for any saw?? Just make it from plywood or solid wood. There isn't any shape you can't cut out. 

I have an old Unisaw and I just cut out them out of solid wood. Shape them with the sander and then plane them to the right thickness. No biggie. The only issue I can see is if there is a pin or something that holds the plate in place that would be hard to duplicate. But I just make make might snug so I have to take my fist and knock it in place.

OH YEA! Put a finger hole in there so you can get it out. :blink: Learned that one the hard way.


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## rag (Dec 23, 2008)

Kudzu said:


> I don't understand why you can't make a throat plate for any saw?? Just make it from plywood or solid wood. There isn't any shape you can't cut out.
> 
> I have an old Unisaw and I just cut out them out of solid wood. Shape them with the sander and then plane them to the right thickness. No biggie. The only issue I can see is if there is a pin or something that holds the plate in place that would be hard to duplicate. But I just make make might snug so I have to take my fist and knock it in place.
> 
> OH YEA! Put a finger hole in there so you can get it out. :blink: Learned that one the hard way.


 

For the pin, I drill a small hole in the end of the plate and insert (snug fit) a cut-off nail. Holes can be drilled at the support points, and set screws installed for leveling. Sounds like a lot of work, but only takes minutes.


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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

rag said:


> For the pin, I drill a small hole in the end of the plate and insert (snug fit) a cut-off nail. Holes can be drilled at the support points, and set screws installed for leveling. Sounds like a lot of work, but only takes minutes.


Problem solved! :laughing:


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## johnv51 (Oct 27, 2008)

I usually make a half dozen inserts or so at a time and keep em on a shelf till needed. I use MDF. I double stick tape it to the original insert and trim it up with a pattern bit. I drill some starter holes and put in 3/8" flat head screws on the underside to level the insert. To cut the blade slot I use double stick tape to hold the new insert on top of the original. Put the original in the opening and raise the bit through the new insert. Most saws don't let the blade lower enough to cut the slot without doing this.


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## [email protected] (Jan 10, 2009)

I think what you're conerned with is the thikness of the insert,am I right. That can be a problem on real thin ones cause they don't sit in the opening well. Anyway guess I would be more concerned about the fence system then anything else as an aftermarket can be very pricey


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

What are you planning on using the saw for? There are some other options as well.


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

I got confused along the lines of this thread so I'll just tell you how I make the zero clearance insert. I use mdf, planed down to the proper thickness and like johnv51 said, I attach the mdf to my original and use a flush cut router bit with a bearing guide to duplicate the original. A quick countersink hole where the hold down screw is on the original and you are done. I raise the blade up while the saw is running so that I get the proper slot. I make them for dado blades etc. Not rocket science once you try it.
Ken


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## rsriverrat (Dec 30, 2008)

let me see if i can clarify things without sounding like a butthead.

i understand completely *HOW* to make a zero clearance insert, but for example, my delta 36-560 bench table saw's plate is a simple piece of 1/16" metal, with no way of making a insert. i know how to make a cross cut sled to kinda solve the zero clearance problem when making crosscuts as i had to make one for the aforementioned saw because it has non standard miter slots and the factory miter guage sucks.... i know the hows and whys....

i reckon a simpler ? is, i am looking for a replacement saw that it would be possible to make an insert for instead of having to buy them for 20 bucks a pop. the saws i have available to purchase locally are ridgid 3650, craftsman 22124, shopfox w1748, and the lowes delta 36-979 and T2 30" fence. but i only have the ability to do a hands on review before purchase with the shopfox and the delta.. 

i know the old addage if u can afford a 100k dollar car u can afford the price tag that comes along with repair/maintance, however i dont have to purchase a new saw as i can make do with my old delta, i have learned how to use it well over the last 4 or 5 yrs, i want to buy a new one, and to me the insert is just as much a factor as the fence is.. sorry but thats just me

*EVERYTHING* i have read i never see anything related to the table inserts which is the reason i made the post in the first place..

knotscott, thanks for the info on the shopfox and grizzly being the same..

Ratt


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Ratt - It's still possible to make an insert for a saw that simply uses a 1/8" steel plate. You just need to use a stronger piece of material and rout out the a 1/8" lip. 

If you're willing to pony up ~ $80 once, the Betterly system has a replaceable section near the blade.


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## johnv51 (Oct 27, 2008)

I detect a dose of "new saw fever". Take a look at Grizzly. I don't know what your budget is but they have one that will match most any budget. I got the 3hp cabinet saw last year and I'm very happy with it.


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## rsriverrat (Dec 30, 2008)

knotscott said:


> Ratt - It's still possible to make an insert for a saw that simply uses a 1/8" steel plate. You just need to use a stronger piece of material and rout out the a 1/8" lip.
> 
> If you're willing to pony up ~ $80 once, the Betterly system has a replaceable section near the blade.


scott,

ya know i never thought about that, duh me.. lol sometimes its the most obvious that gets us.. not sure i like that insert to much but it is a cool idea for sure.. thanks




johnv51 said:


> I detect a dose of "new saw fever". Take a look at Grizzly. I don't know what your budget is but they have one that will match most any budget. I got the 3hp cabinet saw last year and I'm very happy with it.


yeah kinda, u see i have a dilemna, my "shop" as i call it is a 8x12 gambrel shed, i am in the process of re-organizing to see if i can store a new saw in there till i get my real shop built. the problem is the weight factor as i have to take the saw out of the shed to do anything, and while thats ok for my 50# benchtop table saw, it will suck with a 300#+ monster. having a welder and the ability to make a cross country mobile base with 8" pnuematic wheels will help lots i am sure, it'll still be a pain to get in and out of the shed as the ramp incline to the shed is a 3-1 slope. hence the reason i am looking towards a contractor so i could remove the motor when moving it to make it a little lighter. grizzly has good prices it looks like, however the delta at lowes is 550 with fence using my 10% off coupon so i may just go that route..

Ratt


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## BobbyfromHouston (Jul 4, 2008)

Scott- Do you own one of those plates? If so, what is your opinion of them?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

BobbyfromHouston said:


> Scott- Do you own one of those plates? If so, what is your opinion of them?


No...but a friend has one and like it a lot.


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## BobbyfromHouston (Jul 4, 2008)

Thank you sir. I think I am going to purchase one.


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