# Drawer with books, bottom plywood thickness?



## gt7599a (Nov 2, 2019)

I'm designing a 3 piece couch bed. Well, more accurately, I'm fleshing out my _wife's _design (she's the Interior Design Major, I'm the Engineer).

We've moved into a small apartment ~870 ft^2 and are trying to create a dual use bed / couch (IKEA doesn't open in Manila till late 2020). 

The key question I have is, how thick should the drawer bottoms be for a drawer that is 24" wide, 26" deep, 10" tall (10-11" vertical storage space, sides a 1x8) and could hold books? This are going to hold the boys home school books. 

Thanks for your input.

Here's the draft design doc  if you want more detail.

Ed


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

If you fill that with books... it will weigh well over 100 pounds.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/aw-extra-3614-stronger-shelves/

But your plans look like drawers. Agreed with gmercer that it would be overweight and likely cause both usage and structural issues with books. As sheets/blanket storage, not so much.

If you insist on using it for books, I think I'd go with 3/4" ply. You could probably get away with 1/2" ply if you build in a support rail underneath.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Cut the drawers width to 18" or so.....*

The more narrow your drawers, the better it will be for sliding and less holding weight. A 1/2" thick plywood bottom, set in a dado will be well supported and hold the weight. A rabbet, with a bottom glued and nailed would be a touch less strong, but would probably work.


Get your bathroom scale and start setting some books on top when it looks like a full drawer, see what it weighs. The weight won't necessarily help determine the plywood thickness, but it will be a relative measure. Ironically, I was sorting books today, and a medium 24 X 18 X 18 Tupperware tub was more than I could lift. I could manage about 1/2 of a tub full, but that was still pretty heavy.


:|


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

For large drawers, 22" deep x 30" wide, which will be holding cast iron pots and such, I use 1/2" baltic birch bottoms. No problems. Your drawers are smaller than that, 1/2" will EASILY accommodate a drawer full of books. Not sure? lay a piece of 1/2" down across a couple of blocks at 24" apart. Stand on it and see if it feels stressed. Then jump on it and see if it has any issues. I can pretty much guarantee that it won't.


When you make your groove in the 4 sides to fit the bottom into, make sure you have a 3/8" reveal beneath the groove so the sides will have a good hold on the bottoms.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Agree that the 1/2" drawer bottom is probably best. With the good weight distribution that you are going to have with books, 3/8" may well be OK. But be safe and use 1/2"


The major problem is your design has the drawer resting on the cabinet frame and no drawer slides. That is going to be a difficult act to pull out the drawer when you want to open it. I would use heavy duty full extension drawer slides. They are expensive, but worth it.


George


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

"The major problem is your design has the drawer resting on the cabinet frame and no drawer slides. That is going to be a difficult act to pull out the drawer when you want to open it. I would use heavy duty full extension drawer slides. They are expensive, but worth it."


George is right about that. I hadn't looked at the design docs until he'd mentioned it. Drawers made to slide on wood are okay for smaller, lightweight drawers, but with these, you will be wrestling with them after awhile. Not too expensive for 150# rated slides.
https://www.wwhardware.com/kv-8600-...MI5pDoyqDP5QIVbR6tBh1KDAMQEAQYAiABEgJVIPD_BwE


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

3/4"


150 pound rated slides.


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## gt7599a (Nov 2, 2019)

Thanks guys for pointing that out and for the link to 150lb slides. 
The 3D design has drawer slides. I'd already bought them so I forgot to put them in the design doc, an important omission that I've now corrected. 
I bought my 75lb slides from Rockler and brought them back during a recent trip to the US so I'm going to just have to go with them for right now and make sure to not over load the large drawers. If we really need to store books in the large drawers I'll arrange to get heavy duty slides.

As for baltic birch... well, I'm in the Philippines which will limit my options, imported things are expensive due to tariffs and you don't want to ship stuff 'cause getting it through customs can be problematic, expensive or both. 3/4" marine grade is readily available. Marine grade is often used here in cabinets due to the constant high humidity.

*Drawer Slider placement question.*
Does it matter where the drawer slider is mounted vertically on the sides of the drawer? What I mean is, is there an advantage or disadvantage to having the slider near the bottom of the drawer or somewhere else?

*Router instead of a Dado*
I don't have a table saw let alone a dado blade. (And dad's work shop with both is literally on the other side of the planet) Is there any reason I couldn't just use a router to achieve the same thing? More work but still doable, right?

Ed


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

You can make the same Dado with a router
Marine plywood is about the best you van buy - no voids and highly water resistant.


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

Sounds like you've got it covered just fine.


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## gt7599a (Nov 2, 2019)

<sigh>
That moment you discover that 1x8's in the Philippines aren't 3/4" thick. Closer to 9/16"
Followed by, "wait, these 2x4's aren't 1.5" x 3.5" actual." 
and "wait, there not even the same dimensions _between _boards."

Makes me _really _appreciate my dad's workshop, which is about the same size as my current apartment and has chop saw, table saw and joiner as well as planer & routing tables with digital readouts. 
Alas, its also 8,300 miles away...

"Honey, can I buy a planer?"
Ed


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## GuitarPhotographer (Jun 26, 2015)

gt7599a said:


> <sigh>
> That moment you discover that 1x8's in the Philippines aren't 3/4" thick. Closer to 9/16"
> Followed by, "wait, these 2x4's aren't 1.5" x 3.5" actual."
> and "wait, there not even the same dimensions _between _boards."
> ...



Just re-jigger your design to accommodate those missing 1/8s of an inch. So instead of 1-1/2, you have 1-3/8, etc. Easier than remachining wood to your desired dimension.


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## gt7599a (Nov 2, 2019)

Wife discovered a design flaw, not enough overlap on the drawer face and the drawer.

I plan to build the draw face from 1x3 using pocket screws. 

My plan has been to route the part of the drawer face closest to the draw with a dome to create a place for your fingers to pull.
Do I need to screw & glue from the inside to avoid breaking the top of the draw face?
Are there better options? I know I can raise the drawer relative to the drawer face, but that will cut down on storage space.

Ed


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

By looking at your last sketch, it appears that the drawer bottom is just nailed/screwed and glued to the bottom. This is much less than ideal unless the bottom will be sliding on some form of the frame. The bottom should be dado'ed into the sides and front and rear. 

Generally, an inch or two from the top of a drawer is not that bad. We lived in our boat full time for about 25 years and now the last 2 years in an rv. We are no strangers to the 'not enough room' syndrome. You will learn to deal with whatever space you have.


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## gt7599a (Nov 2, 2019)

The bottom won't be sliding on the frame, the white horizontal bars in the 1st & 3rd sketchup images above are the drawer sliders.
Here's the smallest couch/bed section as it is now, with drawers in place but no plywood siding, face frame or drawer faces.

Ed


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## gt7599a (Nov 2, 2019)

*Couch Bed Project Finished w/ Pictures*

Thought I should come back and report on the final product. 


This is a queen sized bed / couch project

The middle draw on the long side is narrow so you can use it regardless of which way your L opens. If the 3 drawers had been the same width, you wouldn't be able to open the middle draw without moving the middle sized couch/bed segment. The smallest square segment (coffee table / foot rest) drawers open on both sides so it won't fall when you open one drawer.



Things we'd change in the design


 Change the top piece of the face frame from 1 x 2 to 1 x 3, the draw face from doesn't overlap the top of the draw face enough.
Things we'd change in the implementation


Actually get around to staining it
Use dad's workshop to make building it easier
Use straight wood (the draw sides arc like the sides of a barrel.
Even so, we're pretty happy with it.
Ed


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