# Crown 8" Gent's Saw Conversion to Rip



## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Well, I am new to woodworking and I bought this "dovetail" saw about a month ago for $28 from Woodcraft. Turns out it really isn't a dovetail saw since the teeth on the blade, from the factory, do not have a rip pattern (such as the one from Veritas or Lie Nielsen).

[EDIT: Maybe it did have a rip pattern but it was a stamped/rollled heavily set mess that didn't cut well. If I recall correctly it did seem the filing was angled in alternating pattern instead of at 90 degrees. But I can't look at it now as I've filed it all away!]

After watching a couple Lie Nielsen videos on Youtube on how to sharpen a dovetail saw and after looking at some closeup shots of the teeth on the Veritas dovetail saw: I converted the Crown saw to a proper dovetail saw.

It's very sharp and cuts fast and by itself.

Gotta love the Internet--youtube, wikipedia, forums, google, etc; it makes it so easy to learn new things.

So in the past month I've learned how to sharpen plane irons & chisels very well, and now it looks like I'm getting there with the saws 

I feel like going to walmart and buying a Stanley Fatmax and convert it to a panel rip saw and see how it fairs.. perhaps i'll make it more TPI than what it comes with. I'll see. I hope the steel on the Stanley Fatmax is good enough though.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The steel may be hardened?*

If so that throws a wrench in hand filing ...I donno? I have some old ones, I'll check.  bill


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Here is a photo of it mid conversion. Notice the edge of the blade is planed down flat (with a huge flat file laying on my workbench that i rubbed the saw on)--I left enough of a groove to use as the spacer marker. I just laid my file down in the mini groove and started filing down with the same file used in those Lie Nielsen youtube videos--I had one laying around. I filed it perpendicular to the blade with the file tilted toward the tip of the saw blade to give it some bite. You can vary this angle to make it more aggressive or less aggressive. I just looked at a closeup of the Veritas dovetail saw and tried to approximately replicate their angle.










Btw, I just free handed it. No vise, no jigs. This is just an experiment. I can use a vise and make jigs and what not later to make it more accurate. But it does cut well for what it is.. a lot better than the brand new stock blade for dovetails, lol. Also, I need to start using the black magic marker like in the youtube video--that'll help a lot.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

The teeth on the FatMax saw I have are hardened -- no sharpening possible. I've got no idea if that's still true (mine is four or five years old), but I'd recommend checking before you buy one...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Nice job man! I don't see the picture though 

As for the fatmax and similar saws the teeth are likely impulse hardened meaning that wouldn't work out so well. I suppose you could grind them off and grind new ones... Don't know if you need to consider tempering of the blade though.

...build n burn - live n learn...

EDIT: now I see the picture... Cool!
Did you set the teeth?


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Nice job man! I don't see the picture though
> 
> As for the fatmax and similar saws the teeth are likely impulse hardened meaning that wouldn't work out so well. I suppose you could grind them off and grind new ones... Don't know if you need to consider tempering of the blade though.
> 
> ...


I just filed that's it. No setting of teeth. Don't you set teeth when they are out of alignment?--Much like honing a chef's knife? I just filed down past all the crosscut teeth mess so they are pretty much flush with the blade.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodgeekess said:


> I just filed that's it. No setting of teeth. Don't you set teeth when they are out of alignment?--Much like honing a chef's knife? I just filed down past all the crosscut teeth mess so they are pretty much flush with the blade.


I'm new to all this saw restoring and sharpening but you want a little bit of set to keep the blade from binding and to reduce friction... Just like a circular saw blades teeth are a bit wider than the body of the blade.

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

It must have a little bit of set remaining .. a small amount.. running my finger along the side I feel a little.

I guess I need a good tool to set the teeth and I need to learn how to do that


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodgeekess said:


> It must have a little bit of set remaining .. a small amount.. running my finger along the side I feel a little.
> 
> I guess I need a good tool to set the teeth and I need to learn how to do that


I found mine at a garage tool sale of sorts for $5... 15tpi is bout the smallest it will work on though...

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Be careful with the saw set. I don't believe you need more than a couple of thousanth per side when you are using the saw for dry hardwoods; less if it is hollow ground like the old Distons. For softwoods or geen wood you need a bit more. 

All of the old saws that I have purchased have had too much set. Too much set makes the saw too hard to control. If the set is right and you are "in the groove" the saw will cut a straight line. You don't even have to watch what you are doing.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I bought a FatMax a couple of months ago for rough work and it is indeed hardened. You will not be able to change/sharpen those. I'm not positive, but I think all the FatMax series saws have hardened teeth.


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Here is the web page that had a picture of the closeup of the Veritas Dovetail saw teeth:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/veritas_dovetail_saw


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

I just read a review of the crown gent's saw by someone that said they used a vise to remove the set on the teeth and it cuts much better. I wasn't smart enough to do this and started butchering my saw with a file, lol. Oh well it was still fun and I can only get experience from messing with the metalwork.. although I really don't know what I'm doing right now!


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Maybe the Crown gent's saw did have a rip pattern but it was a stamped/rollled heavily set mess that didn't cut well. If I recall correctly it did seem the filing was angled in alternating pattern instead of at 90 degrees. But I can't look at it now as I've filed it all away!


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

The more I use this saw I love it. It cuts through stock so easily with no wandering. Nice slim kerf and haven't had problems with binding yet--I pretty much have filed away enough to where there isn't any set.

I can't wait to get a smaller file, one that is well made and sharp. (EDIT: Just ordered the 4" triangular file w/ handle from Lie Nielsen for $7 plus $3 shipping--this is the file they recommend for their 15 tpi thin blade dovetail saw, mine being around 17TPI I believe.) (EDIT #2: Nevermind, they just emailed me and said they were out of stock and wouldn't have it until May, sigh.)


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodgeekess said:


> The more I use this saw I love it. It cuts through stock so easily with no wandering. Nice slim kerf and haven't had problems with binding yet--I pretty much have filed away enough to where there isn't any set.
> 
> I can't wait to get a smaller file, one that is well made and sharp. (EDIT: Just ordered the 4" triangular file w/ handle from Lie Nielsen for $7 plus $3 shipping--this is the file they recommend for their 15 tpi thin blade dovetail saw, mine being around 17TPI I believe.) (EDIT #2: Nevermind, they just emailed me and said they were out of stock and wouldn't have it until May, sigh.)


Try Lee Valley.

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

woodgeekess said:


> I just read a review of the crown gent's saw by someone that said they used a vise to remove the set on the teeth and it cuts much better. I wasn't smart enough to do this and started butchering my saw with a file, lol. Oh well it was still fun and I can only get experience from messing with the metalwork.. although I really don't know what I'm doing right now!


I just finished tuning a Disston D8 5 1/2 pt. This saw had WAY too much set and more set on one side than the other. I started by stoning the teeth on each side; but realized that I would be reducing the thickness of the teeth. I learned that you can adjust your saw set at slightly less than the set you require. The set will accurately reduce the saw's set. 

The saw now cuts 2" oak fast and straight.


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

I have almost zero set on this crown dovetail saw now and i have no problems with binding yet. I am getting clean (small kerf) straight cuts and I control the saw very well. I am so happy now. 

It's interesting, it's a rip pattern now but it is cutting cross grain very well too right now -- doing some of my first m&t's right now (open mortise & tenon to be exact for some framing).

Using a rip saw for crosscutting, what is the disadvantages? Cause I am having no problems with this -- with pine that is.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

woodgeekess said:


> I have almost zero set on this crown dovetail saw now and i have no problems with binding yet. I am getting clean (small kerf) straight cuts and I control the saw very well. I am so happy now.
> 
> It's interesting, it's a rip pattern now but it is cutting cross grain very well too right now -- doing some of my first m&t's right now (open mortise & tenon to be exact for some framing).
> 
> Using a rip saw for crosscutting, what is the disadvantages? Cause I am having no problems with this -- with pine that is.


I have no problems crosscutting oak with a rip saw. I've never tried cutting pine. I would have guessed that if you were going to have a problem, it would be ragged on the bottom side of the cut on pine.


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

So this is my first Mortise & Tenon Joint I've ever done--first try, no resaws. It happens to be an open tenon and I just used the crown gent's saw and a 1/4" chisel to clean out the mortise. (I really need a good tenon saw lol). Cuts were 1 1/2" depth.










I made the tenon a tad too thin and so I have to plane down the side to make it level, but fortunately this is just a side of an LP viny record shelving cube. I guess I am just gonna cut on the outside of the line for the tenon next time. I got nice straight cuts just in the wrong place!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodgeekess said:


> So this is my first Mortise & Tenon Joint I've ever done--first try, no resaws. It happens to be an open tenon and I just used the crown gent's saw and a 1/4" chisel to clean out the mortise. (I really need a good tenon saw lol). Cuts were 1 1/2" depth.
> 
> I made the tenon a tad too thin and so I have to plane down the side to make it level, but fortunately this is just a side of an LP viny record shelving cube. I guess I am just gonna cut on the outside of the line for the tenon next time. I got nice straight cuts just in the wrong place!


Congrats, looks pretty good. Sounds like you already know how to improve on the next one :thumbup:

...build n burn - live n learn...


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