# Help identifying old Craftsman Table Saw



## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

Still looking for a decent table saw. This one just popped up on craigslist. Does anybody know what model it is (the seller doesn't know)? And is it worth $200? The description says it has a cast iron top.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

It looks like your ubiquitous Craftsman/Emerson contractor saw. The good: It's not flex drive, it has CI extensions and it's generally considered to be a good saw when set up right and with a link belt. 

The bad:The fence might leave a bit to be desired but nothing a Delta T2 purchase wouldn't fix. Make sure the guard and splitter are included.

I'd say the price is a bit high, depending on how old it is. Knotscott will probably have more information.

Bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

$200 isn't too bad for one with cast iron wings. Definitely be better if the guard was included, but if not, that could be a bargaining chip for a lower price. I'd also want to upgrade the fence, but the stock fence obviously does work until you're ready.... figure another $150 for something like the T2 Bill mentioned. Between the Emerson and Ryobi made Craftsman and Ridgid contractor saws, it shouldn't be too hard to pick up a blade guard that fits. FWIW, the motor will be more like 1.5hp, not 3hp. 

For upwards of $250-$325 you could have a reasonably tricked out contractor saw with a pretty dern nice fence (the stock fence might fetch $35-$50 if you sold it). IMO it's worth checking out. I'd compare that cash outlay to a new Ridgid R4512 with stamped steel wings, a bit less fence, Herculift, and a true riving knife for ~ $450-$550 with warranty, and make a decision about what makes the most sense to you.


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't bite the bullet on this saw, however someone posted the exact same saw on craigslist for $50 and I did just buy that one. One leg is bent and the top has a good bit of rust, but it's all there and the motor sounds good. Going to clean it up and see what I can improve on it.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Pictures! Pictures! We want before and after pictures!

Bill


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

dodgeboy77 said:


> Pictures! Pictures! We want before and after pictures!
> 
> Bill


Sure thing. The guy is delivering it in a few days, I'll post some before pictures here when I get it, and some after pictures when I'm done. I've got a feeling that's it's going to be a bit of work getting it into tip-top shape.


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## MariahHolt (Jul 21, 2010)

I see those all the time on CL here in Dallas/FW. They go for around $75-$250.


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## MariahHolt (Jul 21, 2010)

*Craftsman Table Saw question*

When you look at those Craftsman Table Saw's, the outside face says 3HP, but when you look at the motor it says 1.5HP? Any idea?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

MariahHolt said:


> When you look at those Craftsman Table Saw's, the outside face says 3HP, but when you look at the motor it says 1.5HP? Any idea?


1.5 "usable" HP....3hp rating is "max developed" HP....like when struck by lightning, or milliseconds before it goes up in smoke.


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

The guy just dropped it off. Had a heck of a time trying to figure out where it should go (notice the mess in the background). It's rusty and missing the adjustment wheel (or whatever you call it) on the fence, but on the plus side the motor really purrs. 

I took a picture of the busted leg too. What to do you guys think, should I buy a new stand or build something?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it's a project, but...*

It's doable. I have the same stand on a Radial Arm Saw.
You can take the entire stand apart and flatten the "busted" leg on a piece of steel that's flat using a heavy hammer. You can run a Random Orbital Sander on all the pieces and bring them back to prime and paint condition. It will look almost like new.

The saw is missing a throat plate for the saw blade. You have a dado insert in there now, but it's not for saw blades. They are available and you really need a zero clearance plate anyway, Sears has them hangin' on the hook in the store.

The rip fence is missing the twist handle but that's not a huge deal. It's a common thread and Rockler may have a long black handle with a threaded end... maybe 5/16" or 3/8" 
thread. This is a mediocre fence at best. I know I have had them. It will do until a better one comes along.


The saw table just needs to be sanded with 220 grit and some mineral spirits. You can use a ROS for that also.
There may be a missing crank on the front of the saw also. It's a crank handle for tilting the blade. www.searspartsdirect.comm has parts. You need the model no. for the saw. Or find one close, the knobs are similar or the same. It can be made to look good and run good, but it will take some work.  bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Those cast iron wings are worth what you paid for the whole saw. Some TLC and elbow grease will bring that around....it's a pretty satisfying task. The rust is pretty heavy, but as Bill says, take a ROS or a palm sander to it with some mineral spirits...for rust that heavy you may want to experiment with the starting grit...I'm thinking maybe 80-100 grit and see how it goes. Good catch on the dado insert too! You can usually find used handwheels and throat inserts on Ebay...in the mean time you can swap the same handwheel back and forth until you find a replacement. Keep your eyes peeled for a fence upgrade, put a decent $30 Freud Diablo D1040 on it, and you should be good to go. :thumbsup:


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

You might consider ditching the legs for a homebuilt movable tablesaw/router station like this:
http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/TblSawCab.php
http://www.woodstore.net/mosaroce.html

With your limited space you might make it smaller and in a way that it can be tucked away under a work table. Advantage is having more support for work pieces and saving space by combining the two.

That saw was a good score! A little TLC and it should serve you well. :thumbsup:


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Ask ten people about table rust removal and you may get ten different suggestions. Here are some more: Spray the table with WD40 and scrape the rust off with a razor blade scraper. Have lots of spare blades handy.

Then use a sander with a Scotchbrite type pad and continue spraying with WD40. After that, finish up with 220 grit paper.

I agree with Woodnthings about the leg repair. Take the leg off and the apron(s) adjacent to it that appear to be bent and beat them straight on an anvil or flat, heavy piece of metal. The hammering is good for release of built up stress, too!

You have a nice saw there. Good luck with it!

Bill


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*saw identity*

Your model number is on the saw base above the rear leg on a plate. I'd be surprised if there are any parts available for it other than small hardware stuff. Sometimes you have to buy a sacrificial saw to get extra parts...ask me how I know this. :laughing: bill


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## MariahHolt (Jul 21, 2010)

Here is what I did for my saw and I still love it!

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/table-saw-router-workstation-project-21848/





Shop Dad said:


> You might consider ditching the legs for a homebuilt movable tablesaw/router station like this:
> http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/TblSawCab.php
> http://www.woodstore.net/mosaroce.html
> 
> ...


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Mariah that is fantastic! It's on my to do list. Appreciate your six-month update too. Really looks great.


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

Over the last couple of days, I have spent hours scraping, sanding, and wire-brushing the heck out of my saw. Then I bought an orbital sander and went at it. Then I bought some Rust Free and went through cycles of spraying down and the scraping with a razor blade. And then finally more sanding. 

It's not looking quite like I expected, but less and less rust is coming off now, and it's smooth to the touch. The nooks and cranies I'm having trouble getting too well, I might just learn to live with that. What do you guys think, is it good enough or should I keep going with it?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*depends...*

If it works well enough you can leave it.
If it works really well and you want it to look like"new" then here's what I'd do.
Remove the wings and table from the carriage...6 bolts and some brackets.
Set out some visqueen in a frame and pour/brush Muratic acid on the whole thing and underneath as well. It will come back to an even color but then you need to immediately apply a baking soda mix to halt the acid reaction.
Another choice might be to have it "blasted" with sand or media and then you immediately have to seal it to prevent rust. I don't know about blasting cast iron myself, only steel, so you should inquire at the blaster to see what they recommend.

The guys over at Vintage Machines or someone here may have a solution to the color issue. I donno?  bill


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> If it works well enough you can leave it.
> If it works really well and ouy want it to look like"new" then here's what I'd do.
> Remove the wings and table from the carriage...6 bolts and some brackets.
> Set out some visqueen in a frame and pour/brush Muratic acid on the whole thing and underneath as well. It will come back to an even color but then you need to immediately apply a baking soda mix to halt the acid reaction.
> ...



The color doesn't bother me, I just don't want it to degrade any further. I did buy some protective bio something to coat it with when I'm done that's supposed to prevent rust. And those bolts are rusted solid. I wore myself out just trying to move the switch to the other side, so I'd rather not take them out at the moment.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

The oxidation markings on the metal after all of that work are strange. It almost looks like some kind of chemical reaction with one of the substances you have been using (and who knows what residue came on the used saw when you got it:huh. I recently bought a similar saw on Craig's List. My process was as follows:


4" brass wire wheel on drill to remove most of the surface rust.
220 grit sandpaper on random orbital sander
320 grit sandpaper on random orbital sander
Scotchbrite scouring pad with WD40
0000# steel wool
clear surface debris with air
clean surface with 1:4 Simple Green
carnuba wax:thumbsup:
I am fairly pleased with the result that I got, but I did spend a good amount of time with the wire wheel.:yes:


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Phaedrus said:


> The oxidation markings on the metal after all of that work are strange. It almost looks like some kind of chemical reaction with one of the substances you have been using. ...


The "Rust-Free" is a phosphoric acid solution...I think that's what's causing the discoloration. More sanding with WD-40 or mineral spirits would probably get rid of that.


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

Guess I'll go buy a wire wheel and work at it some more this afternoon. Maybe that will help with the rust in the nooks. 

I also ordered a guard, insert, and blade off ebay. Can't wait to have it working.


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## troyd1976 (Jul 26, 2011)

what are the penetrating quality's of that rust free product, Ive never used it myself. Ive had good luck with using liquid wrench, an orbital sander and scotch brite pads. you might try applying a liberal coating of your rust eating solution, let it soak down into the nooks and crannies, and hopefully it will sort of pull it out to where your can clean it off easier.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I think you have a start on a very usable saw.
I wouldn't spend a dime on parts to fix the fence. Poor design. If after cleaning the saw up and get it running well, if you are going to keep it, buy a Delta T2 fence for it, for $150. It's a mini Biesemeyer design, and many people who have bought them, really like them. It will improve the saw more than you can imagine.

When you get it setup with the T2 fence, I would make an extension table, as big as you need, to replace the right wing, and a short (10"?) wing to replace the orig left wing. Cover the new ext. tables with laminate.

A couple of machined pulleys and a good belt will help with vibration. Also, I have seen a lot of these saws, where the motor mount lets the motor cock and misalign the pulleys. Fix that problem, and cut some wood.

Enjoy the new saw.


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok, went over it with a selection of wire wheels and wd-40. Here is the result, hardly shiny but definitely better. Good enough, now on to other projects until my ebay parts get here.


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## Gino Pirelli (May 20, 2010)

I have a frame and base for that type of saw. Also a throat insert. I think that yours is for a dado blade. If interested, let me know. I don't have a real strong interest in parting with itbut you only go around once in life.

Gino.


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

Gino Pirelli said:


> I have a frame and base for that type of saw. Also a throat insert. I think that yours is for a dado blade. If interested, let me know. I don't have a real strong interest in parting with itbut you only go around once in life.
> 
> Gino.


Thanks for the offer. I've already purchased inserts, I do still need a stand but I can't see how it would be cost efficient to ship one.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

toasterburn said:


> Thanks for the offer. I've already purchased inserts, I do still need a stand but I can't see how it would be cost efficient to ship one.


 The bases break down fairly small and can be found on ebay as well.:thumbsup:


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## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

*Table rust*

Texas humidity coupled with tempature roller coaster makes rust an on going battle in my shop. I use mineral spirits and steel wool or scotch pads to clean and carnabu automobile wax afterwards. The problem with useing lubericants is silicon can transferr to material and effect finishing. If I used sanders and sand paper I would probably wear out the tables before motors. I use a chemical bath to restore antique tools that would be justified for those wings pictured in this thread. When I have time to geather my thoughts and write the procedure so it makes sense,I plan to post it up and see what you all think.


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

Just a follow-up: installed an insert and blade, and I've used some used ebay parts from similar craftsman models to hobble together a guard/splitter (total cost of guard = $27). Had to make a wood spacer to make it work, but it seems stable and I was able to line the splitter with the blade. 

I also fixed the fence by fashioning an adjustment wheel out of a flywheel from a vintage cassette player. Should work until I can replace the fence.


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