# Garage Workbenches & Shelving, and a Table Saw Rennovation



## cipher (6 mo ago)

I'm brand new here, as I just joined and this is my first post. I'm still getting my tools together to start this project, but I thought I'd share it get some feedback and advice. This post is about both my project and the table saw I purchased for it.

So... hello all! 

Some Background
I'm a DIY guy and so was my father. I've learned quite a bit from him over the years. He passed away in 2015, so I inherited all of his tools, which includes quite a bit of word-working tools. Table saw, circular saw, chop saw, grinder, nail gun, 33 gallon air compressor, levels and squares, assorted power tools, and a ton of hand tons. I never bothered doing anything with all of these tools until my mother needed to move into a personal care home in 2019. I needed to rent out the home, so from 2019 to March of this year I spent a lot of time preparing for that by dismantling everything in their garage, including old hand-built cabinets, workbenches, and tons of pegboard. I dumped all of his tools into storage bins that line my own deep, 2-car garage and a separate rented storage unit. Now I'm designing and planning to build wrap around work benches and storage shelving to accommodate this influx of tools.

The state of my garage right now is quite messy, but at least somewhat organized. The wife wants to dump all of our seasonal decorations in here, so some storage bins of decorations are mixed in with the bins and bins of tools and supplies from my Dad. This was after spending a weekend cleaning to prepare for this project:










I've done minor woodworking before, but never for the enjoyment of it. I've cut plenty of boards, assembled many projects, and sanded, stained, and finished more times than I can remember. From recent hand rails to meet code to custom mobile carts to simple cabinets and furniture. I've always done woodworking as a necessity to serve a purpose, and as such I merged my rather amateurish skill with attention to detail to make things that served their purpose and were fairly decent. So I've only really done butt joints for projects, and my level of fancy is 45 degree cuts to make the joints flush with some decent sanding and finishing. If you spent the time reading this, at least you know where I'm coming from in my approach to this project.

If you have any advice to offer for both this project and my pursuits mentioned within this post, I'm all ears (or in this case on a forum, all eyes). I welcome it, especially constructive criticism. I'm no woodworking pro, so I'm trying to be sponge to soak up all the helpful feedback and tips I can. However, feel free to use woodworking jargon and technical names, as I am familiar with most of it and can easily search for the rest.

Project
I'm an IT guy and much more handy with computers and software than I am with woodworking tools, so of course I used CAD software to layout my project. I'm trying to keep the workbenches simple, all butt joints, with a good helping of overbuilding to make up for my limited skills. I want to make these workbenches and storage shelving a permanent addition to my garage, but not to the level of using wood glue or removing drywall.

On that note, my garage is finished with drywall and baseboards, and all of that is painted. It's an attached garage with an insulated garage door, so temperature and humidity swings aren't that bad. I will most likely be cutting the baseboards down to make my project completely flush with the drywall, as I plan to use 8' 2x4s along it for stability and mounting pegboards, as shown in my rendering:










This isn't my latest version, so I did make some changes since I saved this image. In a follow up post I'll update with new images of the design. Notes:

The 45 degree support wedges are really supposed to be 2x4s cut with 45 degree ends for support of the shelves. My CAD program doesn't support 45 degree cut studs as a 3D object, but it did support triangles to represent that
A 2x4 running along the ceiling, parallel to the middle shelf. I discovered my ceiling's studs run perpendicular to that shelf, so attaching that support to multiple studs would be ideal.
The front portions of the front legs of workbenches will be cut down to 2x2s to take up less space. The sides of these legs will still be 2x4s.
The right side bench below the open shelves is 30" deep, but in my new design it's 40" deep and slightly taller so that I can roll my new table saw under it for storage.
There's about 21 of the vertical 8' 2x4s that run along the walls. You can see them on the right side, but they're mostly covered by peg board everywhere else.
If I get a bit more serious with woodworking in the future, I can always build a workbench to place in the middle of that area complete with dog/holdfast holes. For now, I'll do all of my woodworking from these static workbenches or a pre-made portable work bench. I may decide to add a 2x4 along the outside edge of one of the workbenches and mount a vice when I'm done.
Table Saw
I sold my Dad's portable Hitachi table saw a couple years ago to help get rid of things. I could have kept it, but I knew that if I wanted to use a table saw again, I wanted a contractor saw instead. And that's what I did last weekend: found a used table saw that was exactly what I wanted. The ubiquitous Craftsman 10" table saw. An 86 year-old gentlemen was selling it since he could no longer use it. He claims to have only used it a few times and always stored it in his garage. From its condition I believe him. He was asking $225 but I talked him down to $175 after some haggling.

So I found this Emerson-built 113 with a full cast iron top and skeletal cast-iron wings in my local area. It's a 113.298762 model from 1993 in amazing condition with only surface rust on the cast iron and iron nuts & bolts. He even had some spare (though used) 30T and 40T ripping blades included, along with the original manual. This was back when manuals were essential, lol! I also found it online in PDF format, but it was still so nice to have a physical copy around. No scratches on the top either! Heck, even the red-painted metal throat plate is almost like new. The owner had made and installed these big wooden wheels on it, which I quickly removed and let him keep... I did tease him a bit about these Trojan Horse wheels.

Original ad photos from seller:


























I'm not going to upgrade anything major on it yet. In the future I might add a fixed splitter (no room for a riving knife) and a new fence. I'm completely tearing down the table saw to clean everything and replace a couple parts before reassembling it. The motor is in great condition and it runs, although not as smooth as I'd like. I bought new bearings for the arbor, new cast iron pulleys/sheaves (which term should I use?) instead of the OEM cast aluminum ones, a new link-style V belt, and of course a brand new saw blade. I got l lowering casters and plan to build a simple wheeled base for it that I can raise up on the wheels to move around. I also bought a GrabberPro push block to use with it when I'm all done.

I soaked all of the metal hardware in Apple Cider Vinegar for at least 24 hours, with some of it soaking for 3 days. Seems to have removed all of the surface rust on the iron parts so far. I only needed to wipe them clean with a paper towel... no scrubbing required. I still have another batch I just starting soaking yesterday. Then I store them in plastic containers where I soak them in WD-40.



















Taking everything apart:










I also used WD-40 to clean the table top. A few 3M finishing pads (almost the same as a Scotch-Brite pad) and a lot of elbow grease removed all of the surface rust and most of the stains. The top is looking great! I let WD-40 soak into the top over night after the initial scrubbing, then cleaned it all off. Now my finger just glides along it. That work was very satisfying.

Before, with a single pass of cleaning on the right side of the top (left side in photo):









I might spend a little more time cleaning the corners of the miter channels, but here's the result so far:









Question: the motor mount has an adjustable rail on the right side of it, near the belt. However, when I got it the motor was slanted a bit, ie: not parallel with the table. Is this normal, or is this adjustable when I reassemble it? Perhaps I might be able to adjust this with the motor mount that has two shafts connecting it to the saw cradle? I guess I can also add another bracket on the left side of the motor if adjustments don't help.

Future Projects
Eventually my next big projects are for the backyard. A new, bigger shed to replace my existing plastic shed, and also a renovation of our existing 30'x11' raised garden. The wife and I skipped gardening this year due to other life events, so this will in my mental queue in the next year or two.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Looks like I accidentally posted this to Design & Plans instead of Project Showcase. Can an admin or mod move this post to that sub forum? Thanks!


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

cipher said:


> Can an admin or mod move this post to that sub forum?


Moved. Good shop and work on those tools!


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

I've updated my design to include storing the table saw on the right side and provide limited woodworking functionality on the left side until I decide to do a full workbench later. Height at top of each table: woodworking bench is 36 3/4" high, middle table is 27 3/4" high, and right side tables are 40 3/4" high.











Table saw storage under desk with shelving above to store stains, paint, cleaners, adhesives, and other liquids:




















Woodworking area with a 24" level added to show scale. The dog/holdfast holes are just an example, as I may drill those holes differently one I get a feeling for that work area.










I'm going to use flat 2x4s underneath a 3/4" plywood top. I plan on being able to easily and cheaply replace the top instead of resurfacing it, which is why I'm using plywood. This isn't a serious woodworking bench, just a casual one to add into my wrap-around work tables. If I made a serious woodworking bench in the future, I would have it free-standing with 2x4s mounted sideways for the top to resurface as needed.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

cipher said:


> free-standing


I would find it difficult to work with a bench up against the wall for most projects I do. I have one but it serves specific purposes, most of my work is accomplished on a bench where I can get around all sides.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

difalkner said:


> I would find it difficult to work with a bench up against the wall for most projects I do. I have one but it serves specific purposes, most of my work is accomplished on a bench where I can get around all sides.


Yeah, I have the same reservations. I have one of those old portable Black & Decker work benches with the wedge dogs I can use, but eventually it would be nice to build a free-standing woodworking bench after this project. I need to organize the garage first and incorporate all of my father's old tools, so this takes priority and should get me by for now. Once I build a separate woodworking bench, I can then switch out the plywood top of this one and use it for scraps.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

For a free standing bench in a garage that you still want to park in, consider putting wheels on the bench, then have storage shelves that have space under them for the bench. Even locking caster wheels aren't as steady as I'd like for a work bench. So I use non locking swivel casters and then put leveler feet on too. There are a zillion sellers of these feet, they don't look impressive but with 4 of them working together they have been plenty steady and strong enough for me.








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I use a cordless drill to raise and lower the feet. You can just get the bench steady, or you can level it, great for garage floors that have a bit of a slope to a drain.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Bob Bengal said:


> For a free standing bench in a garage that you still want to park in, consider putting wheels on the bench, then have storage shelves that have space under them for the bench. Even locking caster wheels aren't as steady as I'd like for a work bench. So I use non locking swivel casters and then put leveler feet on too. There are a zillion sellers of these feet, they don't look impressive but with 4 of them working together they have been plenty steady and strong enough for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a good idea, thanks!

For the wheeled bottom I'm making for my table saw I'm using these cheap Made in China retractable wheels that seem to work well when testing them: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CKZN5ZQ

But I saw online some swivel wheels that have brakes which also lock the swivel. Still not perfect, so those levels you linked is a good idea.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher 

these were the ones that had been made for the craftsman tools










link ebay Sears Craftsman Table Saw Swiveling Step-Up Caster 

can be found on ebay. need four 

down side the are old and the wheels are a hard plastic and break. i put new wheels on mine.









drilled out the pin and used a long shoulder 3/16 bolt for the new wheel axial, with a self locking nut.
old black, new red










you will need four leg levelers ebay link Craftsman Table Saw, Adjustable Leveling Feet










there is a number of them out there


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## Kenh3497 (Jun 5, 2021)

MY opinion but beingings you have the saw that far disembled I would purchase a new set of bearings on the spindle. Option for a rubber sealed bearing instead of the steel shields. The shields do not keep dust and particles out of them. Cost difference is minimal.

I think you have a great plan there. Do know if you built it 100 times it would be different EVERY time 😁 😁 . Start small on your projuect and work your way up, If you don't have a tool for a specific job purchase it. Do consider how often you will need that tool (best guess) and spend money accordingly. Everyday use means a higher quality tool should be bought. 

Keep us in the loop. Oh! And welcome to the madness... er, I mean forum! haha

Ken


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @cipher
> these were the ones that had been made for the craftsman tools
> 
> link ebay Sears Craftsman Table Saw Swiveling Step-Up Caster
> ...


Thanks! Yours looks awesome, I love it. You kept it to the original design.

I found those online as well when I was looking to see what sort of base/wheels I was going to add, The hardware looked quite rusty and it was $12 each in bulk, which means for $48 plus $13 shipping which adds up to way more than the casters I ordered. And worse, I'd have to soak all of that hardware in acid/vinegar to clean off the rust, and then I'm still left with possibly brittle plastic I'd need to replace. Just too much time and money to get original casters. 

I'm making an attached base of wood and will add leveling bolts to them as well. Going for an "H" design with the long sections parallel to the saw blade and the braces in the middle perpendicular. That way I'll still have plenty of room to step closer to the table saw. And the casters will be mounted to the side which gives even more support for the extra weight of the cast-iron wings.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Kenh3497 said:


> MY opinion but beingings you have the saw that far disembled I would purchase a new set of bearings on the spindle. Option for a rubber sealed bearing instead of the steel shields. The shields do not keep dust and particles out of them. Cost difference is minimal.


Yup, I mentioned I'm replacing the bearings. I bought both these and these and may return the one I don't like or just keep them as spares. I'm also replacing the pulleys with these cast iron ones.



Kenh3497 said:


> I think you have a great plan there. Do know if you built it 100 times it would be different EVERY time 😁 😁 . Start small on your projuect and work your way up, If you don't have a tool for a specific job purchase it. Do consider how often you will need that tool (best guess) and spend money accordingly. Everyday use means a higher quality tool should be bought.
> 
> Keep us in the loop. Oh! And welcome to the madness... er, I mean forum! haha
> 
> Ken


Thanks! 

My plan is to build it in sections, so I might start with the right corner, then continue with the left corner, and finally the middle work bench. Still not sure if I'll take a vacation to do it across a week, or just tackle bit by bit on the weekends.

I'm still not sure how I'll handle the logistics of assembling it. For example, I might assemble a work bench on its side with the 8' studs, then turn it right-side up and attach to wall, and then assemble the shelving separately and attach to the studs. But once I'm actually starting it, who knows, might be easier to tackle it differently. Any suggestions?


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

I used wire brushes on my drill and RotoZip to clean off the surface rust on the larger cast-iron parts including the cradle, arbor housing, and underside of the table. For the cradle and arbor housing it then coated them with mineral oil. They eventually oxidized to that nice black, cast iron color. For the table I then sprayed it with rust inhibitor and got it to turn completely black.

What do you think, should I paint the underside of the table or just stop at the rust inhibitor?






































Also I was finally able to remove the two bearings from the arbor. Those bearings scratched up the nice shiny surface when removing them (the bearings themselves, not me), so I'll be polishing that up a bit just so I feel better about it. I know it won't make any difference.  Any ways, I did have to grind down a bit of the end near the pulley side that seems to be either a defect or damaged at some point. It made it impossible to remove the bearing. The pulley should still rest flat on the rest of it.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

You will know that machine inside and out before you are done! 

I will warn you that it is easy to spend all your time building a shop instead of building projects. Based on your level of detail in this post, that seems likely that's not a bad thing if you enjoy it, just be aware


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

There seems to be an excessive amount of arbor extending beyond the face of the backing flange. Is the flange in the factory location, or has it moved?


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

cipher said:


> What do you think, should I paint the underside of the table or just stop at the rust inhibitor?


On mine I painted the entire underside and inside of the cabinet white so it would be reflective and easier to clean out the sawdust - Restoration - Powermatic 66 Table saw


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## Kenh3497 (Jun 5, 2021)

cipher said:


> Yup, I mentioned I'm replacing the bearings. I bought both these and these and may return the one I don't like or just keep them as spares. I'm also replacing the pulleys with these cast iron ones.


Personally, I would return both sets of bearings and purchase a set of rubber sealed bearings. Will still be the same bearing number as on the shield (6202) but look for a suffix like "2RS or VV". https://www.astbearings.com/bearing-closures.html

Good choice on using cast iron sheaves (pulleys). I painted the trunion on my saw but did nothing to the underside of the table. Looking very nice. I don't remember if my arbor stuck out that far or not. I know the flange is pressed on very tight. I would hazard a guess it is OK as when you mount a dado blade, the dado will have a lot of extra width that must be accommodated.

Ken


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> There seems to be an excessive amount of arbor extending beyond the face of the backing washer. It the washer in the factory location, or has it moved?


I agree with @woodnthings, that doesn't look right. I think the arbor flange is usually close to the end of the arbor threads. The way this one looks, I think the nut would bottom out on the threads before it got tight on a regular blade, even with the removeable flange/washer on the nut side. I think the length of the threads allows enough room to mount a molding head or dado set.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

difalkner said:


> On mine I painted the entire underside and inside of the cabinet white so it would be reflective and easier to clean out the sawdust - Restoration - Powermatic 66 Table saw


Good thought on painting it white. I was wondering why I've seen other woodworkers do this.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Kenh3497 said:


> Personally, I would return both sets of bearings and purchase a set of rubber sealed bearings. Will still be the same bearing number as on the shield (6202) but look for a suffix like "2RS or VV". https://www.astbearings.com/bearing-closures.html


I think I'll just roll (pun intended) with one of the current bearings. I will most likely dissasemble it and replace them in the future years from now anyways. But if I do replace them again in the future, I'll go the route you recommend. And thanks for the bearing type info... that was very helpful!



Kenh3497 said:


> I don't remember if my arbor stuck out that far or not.





Woodworking Wolf said:


> I agree with @woodnthings, that doesn't look right. I think the arbor flange is usually close to the end of the arbor threads. The way this one looks, I think the nut would bottom out on the threads before it got tight on a regular blade, even with the removeable flange/washer on the nut side. I think the length of the threads allows enough room to mount a molding head or dado set.


Yeah, it looks long in the photo, but that flange doesn't move at all, lol. I know it didn't bottom out. When I reassemble it, I'll double check it.

If I need to, how do I move that flange? It's so tight!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Here's one right off Ebay:
See how close to the threads the flange is. There should only be 1/8" of bare shaft exposed.









Craftsman 113 8" Table Saw Arbor Shaft Assembly, Bearings, 5/8, 113.27580 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Craftsman 113 8" Table Saw Arbor Shaft Assembly, Bearings, 5/8, 113.27580 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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another one. Cheap enough if you want to replace your or as a spare:








Vintage Craftsman Table Saw Arbor Shaft from 113-27700 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vintage Craftsman Table Saw Arbor Shaft from 113-27700 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> Here's one right off Ebay:
> See how close to the threads the washer is. There should only be 1/8" of bare shaft exposed.


That photo is a different design, look how the diameter changes etc. Different flange too I think.


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

Bob Bengal said:


> That photo is a different design, look how the diameter changes etc. Different flange too I think.


I agree, different design. I'm pretty sure some of the Craftsman saws had an arbor where the flange was a part of the shaft (it was machined from a single piece of steel). That would be the older saws and I think what @woodnthings showed. The newer saws (talking 1950s as old, 1990s like yours new) had a pressed on flange.

A couple of questions:
1) was there a blade on it when you bought it and was it tight?
2) how did you get the bearings off of it? Did you have to use a puller or press to get them off? Is it possible you moved the flange while getting the bearings off?

Here is a picture from another thread on this forum. I think this is similar to your saw. You can see how close to the flange is to the threads. 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem It's from post #11 on this thread: 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem You can see a line around your arbor in about the place where the flange is in this picture and what looks like scratches or grooves going from that point to where your flange is.

I'm sure you could move the flange using a press or several other methods. My fear is that doing so makes it loose on the shaft. The flange might then spin on the shaft and your blade won't turn, especially when a lot of pressure is on the blade. Also, you need to keep the flange 90 degrees to the shaft or you will have runout and your blade will wobble. I don't have an idea for moving the flange that I am comfortable recommending.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Woodworking Wolf said:


> Here's one right off Ebay:
> See how close to the threads the washer is. There should only be 1/8" of bare shaft exposed.





Bob Bengal said:


> That photo is a different design, look how the diameter changes etc. Different flange too I think.





Woodworking Wolf said:


> I agree, different design. I'm pretty sure some of the Craftsman saws had an arbor where the flange was a part of the shaft (it was machined from a single piece of steel). That would be the older saws and I think what @woodnthings showed. The newer saws (talking 1950s as old, 1990s like yours new) had a pressed on flange.


Yup, mine doesn't have two keys at the end; only one key for the pulley. The arbor shown is for an 8" table saw. And it looks like my flange is not machined from the same piece of steel.



Woodworking Wolf said:


> A couple of questions:
> 1) was there a blade on it when you bought it and was it tight?
> 2) how did you get the bearings off of it? Did you have to use a puller or press to get them off? Is it possible you moved the flange while getting the bearings off?


1. Yup, the blade was mounted, and it had a lot of thread sticking out from the end past the nut, as the nut was almost all the way down. It was tight though, as I had to really jam a piece of scrap wood into the blade to hold it and break the nut loose.
2. I did not use a gear puller, though that's one option. I used PB Blaster and a method of removal using a large wrench to hold it in place by the bearing, then tap the shaft down gently. For the one bearing that was right up against the flange, I used the thing wrench included with the table saw, then switched to a regular wrench later.



Woodworking Wolf said:


> Here is a picture from another thread on this forum. I think this is similar to your saw. You can see how close to the flange is to the threads. 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem It's from post #11 on this thread: 10” Craftsman Table Saw arbor shaft problem You can see a line around your arbor in about the place where the flange is in this picture and what looks like scratches or grooves going from that point to where your flange is.
> 
> I'm sure you could move the flange using a press or several other methods. My fear is that doing so makes it loose on the shaft. The flange might then spin on the shaft and your blade won't turn, especially when a lot of pressure is on the blade. Also, you need to keep the flange 90 degrees to the shaft or you will have runout and your blade will wobble. I don't have an idea for moving the flange that I am comfortable recommending.


The flange was in this position before I removed everything, and blade was tight, so it should be fine. It does look long in the photo, so I'll add the blade, collar, and nut and double check while I still have it removed from the housing. I'll post a photo of it too. I noticed that it does show the flange closer to the threads on the arbor in my manual.

Thanks for all of the advice and bringing up possible concerns. Much appreciated, as it helps me think through things as well.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Bob Bengal said:


> That photo is a different design, look how the diameter changes etc. Different flange too I think.


Yes, a different design for a different saw, BUT the conditions of mounting a thin saw blade on 1" of unthreaded shaft is what I was pointing out. That ain't right!


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> the conditions of mounting a thin saw blade on 1" of unthreaded shaft is what I was pointing out. That ain't right!


Well, @cipher said the flange was in the position we see and a blade was tight on it when he got it. Seems strange to me, but without the saw in front of me, I could certainly be missing something. I'm sure he'll post some pictures and let us know how it goes when he puts everything back together. If the flange is moved over as much as it appears to me, the arbor might not be long enough on the other end to go through the bearing and mount the pulley (or is it a sheave? ).


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

woodnthings said:


> ... on 1" of unthreaded shaft is what I was pointing out. That ain't right!





Woodworking Wolf said:


> Well, @cipher said the flange was in the position we see and a blade was tight on it when he got it. Seems strange to me, but without the saw in front of me, I could certainly be missing something. I'm sure he'll post some pictures and let us know how it goes when he puts everything back together. If the flange is moved over as much as it appears to me, the arbor might not be long enough on the other end to go through the bearing and mount the pulley (or is it a sheave? ).


I just checked and the flange is over way too much from where it should be. It's on the other side of where the groves are for the retaining ring to keep one of the bearings in place. I'm not sure how that happened during my work. I tried tapping the shaft further through the flange in the correct direction (padding everything to be safe), but that flange isn't moving even a millimeter. Perhaps the vibrations from the process of grinding off the bulging side of the shaft where the pully goes caused the flange to move further down the shaft?

Either way I'll need to move that flange back over. Would a gear puller help with this?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

You can pound it over or press it over. 
To press it over, you'll need a vertical 10 Ton press with a hole plate for the shaft to slide through.
OR a large bench vise with a pipe long enough to allow the shaft to press through to the final dimension.
Not many shop bench vises have that capacity, but a woodworker's side vise may work.
To pound in in, select a bench dog hole and a scrap of wood with a shaft size hole Then use a brass or copper hammer to pound with. 
OR cover the end with a copper pipe cap and use an ball peen or stone mason's hammer.
Locate the lock ring groove and bump the flange over to a seated lock ring.
There needs to be something to keep it in the proper location..... see the manual for parts.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

woodnthings said:


> You can pound it over or press it over.
> To press it over, you'll need a vertical 10 Ton press with a hole plate for the shaft to slide through.
> OR a large bench vise with a pipe long enough to allow the shaft to press through to the final dimension.
> Not many shop bench vises have that capacity, but a woodworker's side vise may work.
> ...


Thanks for all of the advice.

As for something to keep it in place, nothing does except for the bearing on that side. It's right up against the bearing (#43 in the manual).










I might try the gear puller method first since that's easier and safer than pounding. If that doesn't work, I'd have to opt for pounding it since I don't own a press. I can always take it to a machinist too (and they can true it to thee shaft), but I'd rather true the flange on my own when it's mounted and spinning under its own power. Example:


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

cipher said:


> As for something to keep it in place, nothing does except for the bearing on that side. It's right up against the bearing (#43 in the manual).


What is #44? Does it hold the bearing in place and that holds the flange? Or maybe snap ring #48 keeps the whole series of parts in place?

In your photo of where the flange is now there is a shallow groove between the flange and threads, looks placed to hold #44.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Bob Bengal said:


> What is #44? Does it hold the bearing in place and that holds the flange? Or maybe snap ring #48 keeps the whole series of parts in place?
> 
> In your photo of where the flange is now there is a shallow groove between the flange and threads, looks placed to hold #44.


#44 is the retaining ring for the bearing. Yup, that shallow groove looks like it should be where the retaining ring for the bearing should reside.


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

EDIT - posted before seeing the last few posts.



cipher said:


> Would a gear puller help with this?


Not sure what the back side (the side opposite of where the blade sits) looks like (tapered, etc.). If you can grab it with the jaws of a gear puller and not have them slide off, I think it would work. I'd use a 3-jaw puller (not a 2) to spread the force. Remember, you need to keep the flange perpendicular to the shaft so you don't get runout. You don't want to bend it or cock it on the shaft. Search for some threads - here or on a tool forum - that show how to check for runout if you aren't sure. Even though it doesn't want to move with what you have tried, I don't think it is going to take that much force. You seem to think you moved it, and you haven't done anything too forceful, right? Just take your time.

One last thought. If you think it might be a little loose after you get it in it's final, your are sure correct spot, some Loctite thread locker might be worth considering. While it is normally applied before fasteners are assembled, they have one that can be used after assembly. While is it made to keep bolts and nuts from coming loose, it can be used for other things. You need to be careful with this stuff though. If you think it's hard to move the flange now, you can probably forget about it after you use it. I'd call the company and talk to them first. Products


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher 

I have worked on several of these Craftsman 10 inch table saws for others and had done the same thing over tightening the blade and breaking loose or breaking clip ring completely.

I use the gear puller to pull it back just passed where belong. then cut the grove just a little bit so to Square the shoulder on the left side.

I used an old large bolt but just slid over the shaft little larger one than that one and then pulled on it.

do not pull all the actual flange as it will break.

this was the method I used because I did not have a proper press.

retighten with washers space it out till I came back in contact with retaining clip.

there is quite a few articles online describe over-tightening it and breaking this clip loose.










since you taken the whole thing apart. as others have said paint the underside of the cast iron table a light color like white or light primer Gray.

The areas where other metal pieces like for the trunnion need the absolutely smooth. tape them and paint. after I would use the Johnson paste wax or boshield to prevent rust.

do the same with all the other metal parts that are bear now and need to be painted to last a long time. protect all the gliding surfaces and all the other places.


check the motor and to see what kind of bearings it has it may say sleeve or roller bearing. If it is sleeve bearings it should have two yellow caps at one each the end of the motor. 

it is recommended to use 20 weight non detergent oil like three in one oil meant for Motors.
this is covered in the owner's manual.

this would be good time to clean the motor out without total dismantling it.

sawdust fills up inside these motors. it will starter problems. it uses a centrifugal switch to engage the start windings.

good luck.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> I have worked on several of these Craftsman 10 inch table saws for others and had done the same thing over tightening the blade and breaking loose or breaking clip ring completely.
> 
> I use the gear puller to pull it back just passed where belong.


Sounds good, as I'll give the gear puller a shot.



Biotec said:


> then cut the grove just a little bit so to Square the shoulder on the left side. I used an old large bolt but just slid over the shaft little larger one than that one and then pulled on it.


I don't quite follow what you mean? And is the shoulder a reference to the side of the flange that presses against the blade?



Biotec said:


> do not pull all the actual flange as it will break.


EDIT: What do you mean by that? I checked and the flange only hold the gear puller at the largest part of the flange. Should I use a giant washer or piece of metal that rests up against the bottom, smaller radius of the flange to try to pull it up?



Biotec said:


> retighten with washers space it out till I came back in contact with retaining clip.
> 
> there is quite a few articles online describe over-tightening it and breaking this clip loose.


Your advice is really valuable to me, especially since you've had experience with this already. I appreciate it! I assume you're talking about the clip on the other side of the bearing in which the flange rests? There is no retaining clip between the flange and the bearing.



Biotec said:


> since you taken the whole thing apart. as others have said paint the underside of the cast iron table a light color like white or light primer Gray.
> 
> The areas where other metal pieces like for the trunnion need the absolutely smooth. tape them and paint. after I would use the Johnson paste wax or boshield to prevent rust.
> 
> do the same with all the other metal parts that are bear now and need to be painted to last a long time. protect all the gliding surfaces and all the other places.


Sounds like a good plan for the table. As for the other parts, I've already applied mineral oil. Do you recommend removing that oil and painting them (except for the smooth contact surfaces)? Also, should I avoid painting the rack gear teeth for raise/lower and tilt?



Biotec said:


> check the motor and to see what kind of bearings it has it may say sleeve or roller bearing. If it is sleeve bearings it should have two yellow caps at one each the end of the motor.
> 
> it is recommended to use 20 weight non detergent oil like three in one oil meant for Motors.
> this is covered in the owner's manual.


Yup, I noticed one yellow oil plug on the motor, but not two? I'll have to check again. However I couldn't find anywhere in the manual where it talked about adding oil to the motor. In the troubleshooting steps it hinted at it and reference the maintenance and lubrication sections, but those sections don't mention adding oil to the motor at all. I have 3-in-1 set aside for that purpose. Question: how many drops should I give it? Can you overfill it?



Biotec said:


> this would be good time to clean the motor out without total dismantling it.
> 
> sawdust fills up inside these motors. it will starter problems. it uses a centrifugal switch to engage the start windings.


I already blew it out with my air compressor (I hope 120PSI didn't hurt it, since that's what I used). Plenty of sawdust blew out, so I doubt the previous owner ever cleaned it. But that owner did mentioned he only used it a few times.



Biotec said:


> good luck.


Thanks! I'll tag you here if there's something I can't figure out in the future.


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

Good that you are hearing from someone who experienced your problem and how he fixed it. So I'd wait for a response from @Biotec, but here is what I got from his comments.


cipher said:


> I don't quite follow what you mean? And is the shoulder a reference to the side of the flange that presses against the blade?
> EDIT: What do you mean by that? I checked and the flange only hold the gear puller at the largest part of the flange. Should I use a giant washer or piece of metal that rests up against the bottom, smaller radius of the flange to try to pull it up?


I think he's saying don't pull on the outer diameter of the flange, you want to pull close to the shaft. I think he meant he slid a nut over the shaft (but said bolt) and pulled on that. It's what you are saying about using a washer.



cipher said:


> I use the gear puller to pull it back just passed where belong. then cut the grove just a little bit so to Square the shoulder on the left side.
> 
> Your advice is really valuable to me, especially since you've had experience with this already. I appreciate it! I assume you're talking about the clip on the other side of the bearing in which the flange rests? There is no retaining clip between the flange and the bearing.


I'm not following him here either. It sounds like the one he worked on had the clip at the backside of the flange, where as yours is at the backside of the bearing. I'm interested in his explanation of this. I will be redoing a saw like yours, but from the mid 70s I think, later this year. I'm gathering ideas to improve it and make if more accurate and durable.



Biotec said:


> @cipher
> there is quite a few articles online describe over-tightening it and breaking this clip loose.


I think it might be worth searching out these articles and maybe look for YouTube videos. Good to have as much info as possible to avoid messing up.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

This is an example of a Craftsman table saw arbor showing the location of the flange on the threaded side of the arbor. It may not be the same as the saw in question?








Craftsman 508511 Table Saw Arbor and Bearing Assembly, Nails, Screws & Fasteners - Amazon Canada


Craftsman 508511 Table Saw Arbor and Bearing Assembly in Nails, Screws & Fasteners.



www.amazon.ca





It would make sense to have a snap ring behind the flange to keep it from moving if you tighten the arbor nut too far.
Then I would expect to find the outer bearing that sits in the trunnion.



cipher said:


> I just checked and the flange is over way too much from where it should be. It's on the other side of where the groves are for the retaining ring to keep one of the bearings in place. I'm not sure how that happened during my work. I tried tapping the shaft further through the flange in the correct direction (padding everything to be safe), but that flange isn't moving even a millimeter. Perhaps the vibrations from the process of grinding off the bulging side of the shaft where the pully goes caused the flange to move further down the shaft?
> 
> Either way I'll need to move that flange back over. Would a gear puller help with this?


How do you think the flange got moved in the first place?
There are several ways to get it back in place as I said above., the simplest being a hole in a bench top and a dead blow hammer or a copper pipe cap on the end of the arbor.
A bench vise with the jaws opened enough to allow the shaft to slide through vertically when pounded down will also work.
Bearing pullers require 3 or 4 hands to get the jaws all oriented and a 2 jaw would work in this case and should require "gobs" of torque on the nut end.
A larger back up washer or a block of wood was suggested, a good idea.
E replacement parts parts diagram sows a e-ring. a bearing and a snap ring.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

woodnthings said:


> How do you think the flange got moved in the first place?


As I mentioned earlier, I think it might have moved on its own due to vibrations of grinding down a bulge at the end of the shaft near the key insert for the pulley. In the photo you provided from the Amazon item, that shaft looks good with it completely straight all the way to the end. I have a feeling someone pounded the pulley onto the shaft at some point (possibly when manufactured?) and bulged the metal end just enough to make removing the bearings a royal PITA.



woodnthings said:


> There are several ways to get it back in place as I said above., the simplest being a hole in a bench top and a dead blow hammer or a pipe cat on the end of the arbor.
> A bench vise with the jaws opened enough to allow the shaft to slide through vertically when pounded down will also work.
> Bearing pullers require 3 or 4 hands to get the jaws all oriented and a 2 jaw would work in this case and should require "gobs" of torque on the nut end.
> A larger back up washer or a block of wood was suggested, a good idea.
> ...


All good suggestions. I'm going to try the gear puller method to bring the flange back into its correct position. I'll use a scrap piece of metal, or big washer or nut to allow the puller to clamp on to something that's putting pressure on the smaller end of the flange.

Note that the retaining clips completely surround the bearing on the right side in that photo, but there's only one retaining clip for the left side bearing, which is to the right of that bearing. The design seems to rely upon the flange to hold the shaft and left-side bearing in place.


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

cipher said:


> The design seems to rely upon the flange to hold the shaft and left-side bearing in place.


Sure, when the blade is tightened, it sandwiches it all together.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher 

Good afternoon all.

I humbly apologize for confusion I caused.

Of the shafts that I have worked on the flange is lightly pressed on.

the flange that start slipping when nut is tight on the shaft but the blade is still slightly loose. the clip has broken loose. this will cause galling of the flange to the shaft. do not attempt to fix that problem. use it to your advantage so it doesn't slip so easily in the future.

remember it is left hand thread and it's always trying to tighten itself. so when the blade is dull or being overworked it will turn the nut very tiny amount Each time.

When working with a shaft the key is left and thread site is right.

whether you using a puller or a press you're going to move the flange toward the threaded end past the slot about 1/8 of an inch.

if you have a lathe or access to one the next step is easier. does not matter whether it's a wood turning lathe metal lathe as long as it's got three jaw Chuck to hold the shaft. turn slowly you're going to want to square up the left edge of the slot. a fine metal saw cutting blade can be used or with patience a Dremel tool be used or a rat tail file. for any tool that can give you a nice Square Edge. if you have never done this before get old used bolt 5/8 in diameter to practice on. cutting the slot into the shoulder of the bolt.

Please try not to widen the slot width much.

retaining clip needs a square Edge to lock against. leftside key.

once you have the retaining clip back in place then walk flange it back till just snug. it is okay if the clip moves a tiny amount. turns not loose left to right. after the first couple uses of tightening the blade and loading it will Snug up tighter to the retaining clip.

note

the shaft is made of a semi soft metal and if you try hammer the flange into place it will either ruin threads at one end or the other end you'll never get to pulley on.

the bearings should be somewhat tight on the shaft.





good luck


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @cipher
> Good afternoon all.
> 
> I humbly apologize for confusion I caused.


No problem, it all gets worked out eventually. 



Biotec said:


> Of the shafts that I have worked on the flange is lightly pressed on.
> 
> the flange that start slipping when nut is tight on the shaft but the blade is still slightly loose. the clip has broken loose. this will cause galling of the flange to the shaft. do not attempt to fix that problem. use it to your advantage so it doesn't slip so easily in the future.
> 
> ...


Good to know, thanks!



Biotec said:


> whether you using a puller or a press you're going to move the flange toward the threaded end past the slot about 1/8 of an inch.
> 
> if you have a lathe or access to one the next step is easier. does not matter whether it's a wood turning lathe metal lathe as long as it's got three jaw Chuck to hold the shaft. turn slowly you're going to want to square up the left edge of the slot. a fine metal saw cutting blade can be used or with patience a Dremel tool be used or a rat tail file. for any tool that can give you a nice Square Edge. if you have never done this before get old used bolt 5/8 in diameter to practice on. cutting the slot into the shoulder of the bolt.
> 
> ...


I don't have a working lathe right now, but I have a friend & neighbor who's getting one. However, It does have a groove already for the retaining clip. Are you saying that moving the flange will ruin that groove?



Biotec said:


> note
> 
> the shaft is made of a semi soft metal and if you try hammer the flange into place it will either ruin threads at one end or the other end you'll never get to pulley on.
> 
> the bearings should be somewhat tight on the shaft.


Yup, the bearings are very tight. Noted on the softer metal shaft. I think that's why mine was bulging at the pulley side as someone might have pounded it. It was bulging a little before I ever tried to get the bearings off, so I had to shave it down just a little. At least the pulley still has plenty of smooth contact with the rest of the shaft to be very snug with no wobble or anything.



Biotec said:


> good luck


Thanks, I'll need it!


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

cipher said:


> I don't have a working lathe right now, but I have a friend & neighbor who's getting one. However, It does have a groove already for the retaining clip. Are you saying that moving the flange will ruin that groove?


I don't want to answer for @Biotec but here's what I think he is saying. I'm looking forward to his answer based on his experience.

I think he is saying that the groove the retaining clip goes into could have been damaged. That could cause the clip to not stay in, and pop out. When you put pressure on the clip in the direction of the curved edge, the clip wants to pop off. I've seen this fixed by the groove being machined to accept a thicker clip or to use two clips (each method assumes there is enough room to do this).


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Woodworking Wolf said:


> I don't want to answer for @Biotec but here's what I think he is saying. I'm looking forward to his answer based on his experience.
> 
> I think he is saying that the groove the retaining clip goes into could have been damaged. That could cause the clip to not stay in, and pop out. When you put pressure on the clip in the direction of the curved edge, the clip wants to pop off. I've seen this fixed by the groove being machined to accept a thicker clip or to use two clips (each method assumes there is enough room to do this).
> 
> View attachment 440870


Thank you, makes sense. I will double check with a scope after I move the flange. If it's rounded on the sides, I can get my friend's help to make it square again and add a retaining clip to match the new size.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

SUCCESS!

I started the weekend a little early this evening with my work on this. I was able to move the flange back into place with a 6" gear puller. The 3 arms gripped the smaller portion of the flange just fine, so no need for a separate giant nut or washer.












Stupid me however didn't think to put anything between the gear puller point and the shaft, so now I have a little dimple in it. Oh well, it's not a big deal since I had it centered:











I now have all of the parts of the arbor ready to reassemble, including the cast iron pulleys and new bearings. Only question is which retaining ring goes on which side? There's two different sizes, and I can't remember where each goes. The manual doesn't distinguish where the smaller or larger one goes. The E-clip goes in the middle, where there's a deeper groove, and then both retaining rings go to the left of the bearings in this photo:










Any ways, at least the one retaining ring groove in which I had to move the flange over is still good. It has sharp edges to hold the clip, so no need to re-tool that.

I completed soaking the rest of the hardware with vinegar to remove rust and corrosion. I had to leave it there for a few days. I took out the last batch, wiped everything down, and have the smaller parts soaking in WD40 now:










Question: what's the easiest way to clean the old grease off of the threads on these height and tilt adjustment bolts? Then what's the easiest way to clean off any rust from those same threads?

Almost everything in these old table saws is metal. That's awesome. The only plastic/rubber parts for the table saw (aside from what's required for the motor, switch and wiring) are the adjustment wheels, table "EXACT-I-CUT" insert, a nylon washer, and two rubber seals:












So I'll be painting the arbor housing, saw cradle, and bottom of table this weekend. In the mean time, the other supplies I purchase for this table saw...

Push Block and Raise/Lower Casters for the base I'll make:












New link-style V-belt and new combination blade:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

NICE WORK! I use the same 50 tooth Diablo on my saw. You'll like it.
You might try a diamond finger nail file from a drug store to clean up the grooves for the E clips.
Nothing else I know will be thin enough other then a Dremel disc.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

woodnthings said:


> NICE WORK! I use the same 50 tooth Diablo on my saw. You'll like it.
> You might try a diamond finger nail file from a drug store to clean up the grooves for the E clips.
> Nothing else I know will be thin enough other then a Dremel disc.


Thanks! And good advice, I might try my Dremel or Rotozip with a polishing disk to clean up the retaining clip grooves.

Also, my vinegar bath did a great job at removing rust and corrosion. But it also did a great job at dulling the steel, lol. So I polished the two big adjustment shafts. Here's one as an example:











Original, post vinegar bath, and polished below. I could polish it all the way to the original stainless steel look, but that's just too much work for a part I'll probably never see again.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

This is the most in depth restoration I've ever followed btw


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## Kenh3497 (Jun 5, 2021)

I used a wire wheel on my bench grinder to clean up the threads on the tilt and depth screws. 

Ken


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

BigCountry79 said:


> This is the most in depth restoration I've ever followed btw


Thanks!  It motivates me to take my time and do it well. I'll keep sharing my progress.



Kenh3497 said:


> I used a wire wheel on my bench grinder to clean up the threads on the tilt and depth screws.


Good advice, thanks! I have an old bench grinder (one of my father's tools, I think it's a Delta, not sure), but it's in one of my storage bins. I might dig it out and then buy a wire brush wheel for it.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

I completed most of the prepping, masking, priming, and painting today. In the future I still have the wings to paint, but sometime this coming week I need to turn the cradle and arbor housing over to paint the bottom. The paint I used takes 2-4 hours to tack, 5-9 hours to handle it, and 24 hours to cure. It's so long, lol! My self-etching primer only took 30 minutes until I could handle it and paint my color coats.

Before I painted them, I had to prep the cradle and arbor housing since I used mineral oil on them to protect after my wire brushing. So this means I had to strip the oil and clean the surface before I painted. I used Klean Strip Concrete & Metal Prep, which can also remove rust. For rust the recommend full strength and spray or brush on and soak overnight, and for paint prepping they recommend 3:1 water to solution ratio and waiting 15 minutes. I used 1:1 and waited about 20 minutes before washing it off with a hose.












It worked great. I created the chalky white residue that easily was srcubbed and wire-brushed off to prep the surface. After wire-brushing again:










I only used two different wire brushes out of my pack of 7 or so different sizes. They certainly got abused during this process...












Time to mask off all of the flat & polished portions of each part that are used to make contact with another part. For the places that were hard to stick to, such as the arbor housing for the bearings, I used duct tape to mask it.












I also used duct tape around most of the edges of my table top to make sure it sticks (thought you can't really see it well in the photo). I then cut down two drywall anchors and placed them to mask off the two screws for the 0 and 45 degree stops.












The self-etching primer I have on hand. I'll be using the Dupli-color cans since one of them is about 1/3 full. I prefer Dupli-Color over Rust-Oleum, but Rust-Oleum is still better than that Krylon crap (sorry to any Krylon fans). Dupli-Color is always my go-to brand for paint when I'm not in a rush to get it, as Home Depot and Lowes don't carry that brand. It's more of an automotive brand.












My table top has a treatment of rust converter on it, which bonded to the metal, so I didn't need to do any more to prep the surface except to blow it off with my air compressor. The green self-etching primer coats:





















Unfortunately I had no light gray paint on hand, so I had to run to the store to grab some. It's Rust-Oleum Smoke Gray, so a very light gray color:












The table top is all done, so I removed the masking and duct tape. It looks great. I have just a little over-spray towards the back, in the middle that looks like a rough area in the photo. I'll clean that up after this paint cures (24 hours).


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks like a good and thorough job on all these parts.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

cipher said:


> Thanks!  It motivates me to take my time and do it well. I'll keep sharing my progress.


The only warning I have is it's really easy to accumulate projects like this, and if you have the space and patience then it's zero issue if you have several lined up. 

With my personality, I really value completing furniture or creative projects over restoring tools, and the backlog of tools I needed to locate and restore made the process less enjoyable for me. I was stressed out thinking all the things I "needed to do"

I now just buy most of my tools at whatever price point is within my budget, and I spend more time working things I enjoy and less time cruising flies markets. You may be different, but this was me.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher

I've had three good results using evapo-rust on Cast Iron and Steel parts.

I buy by the gallon and all on use 3-gallons so far in last 4 years. and still have gallon used left.

Naval gel product and others like above do leave whitescale that needs to be cleaned off

after use. they are an acid-base products and must be handled with care.

evapo-rust is environmentally friendly you can get it on your with no side effects.

also does not pit or take good metal away

on cast iron depending on the amount of carbon content in may turn a little bit black.

most of it will rinse off with water and use of a green scrubby we'll get the rest of it off.


gel 8oz . ...........................1 gal reg
amazon $11.00..................$23.00 same price @ homedept
amazon free ship generally next day


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher 

I personally enjoy rebuilding antique, old equipment. was doing so fairly regularly for others as a side Hobby work up till 2020. in about April brought home my father's radial arm saw (RAS) and the 6 inch jointer planer and 12 inch swing lathe all early 1980 all Craftsman tools.

all have been restored and are running well. later that year I was at an estate sale for some small hand tools and found Craftsman 12in band saw 6 inch large free standing sander, small 3-inch sander, lathe parts that replaced the missing parts for my father's lathe. also a 6 in benchtop grinder.

most of those tools also were from the early 1980s. Replaced all the bearings in all the tools.

after taking the time build all these tools I would not recommend doing this unless, they, the new owner are mechanically inclined and good at doing it. also having a good electrical understanding for some of the power tools is helpful some cases flat-out necessary.

there are some of us who enjoy restoring old tools and using them. there has to be balanced and what you're doing. as another poster had commented he rather do woodworking than buy a tool have to repaired / restore it and then get to use it. I believe another poster had on another thread said he like buying used tools don't care how ratty they look as long as they work well.


I like the appearance to look good and run well.

I believe the original poster ( @cipher ) has gotten past the easy part. the cleanup painting. to prepare to reassemble. 
I believe celebration and realignment it will take nearly as long as the teardown and clean up.



sorry about the long trivia.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

difalkner said:


> Looks like a good and thorough job on all these parts.


Thanks! 



BigCountry79 said:


> The only warning I have is it's really easy to accumulate projects like this, and if you have the space and patience then it's zero issue if you have several lined up.
> 
> With my personality, I really value completing furniture or creative projects over restoring tools, and the backlog of tools I needed to locate and restore made the process less enjoyable for me. I was stressed out thinking all the things I "needed to do"
> 
> I now just buy most of my tools at whatever price point is within my budget, and I spend more time working things I enjoy and less time cruising flies markets. You may be different, but this was me.


I have a ton of patience... I'm a married guy. 

Any ways, I'm more of a hobbyist and DIY person than a woodworking guy, since woodworking is just one of my interests. Still, I'm more handy with wood than I am an engine. So all of my projects bring me some joy, especially when I complete them. From replacing the drain pump in our washing machine to making a nightstand, I enjoy it all.

The wife thinks I'll never finish the table saw, but that's an important component for renovating my garage, so I'm motivated. I'll be holding off on any other projects until the table saw and garage workbenches/shelving is complete.



Biotec said:


> I've had three good results using evapo-rust on Cast Iron and Steel parts ... evapo-rust is environmentally friendly you can get it on your with no side effects ... also does not pit or take good metal away


Good to know. When I used up my current stuff, I'll keep it in mind.



Biotec said:


> I personally enjoy rebuilding antique, old equipment. was doing so fairly regularly for others as a side Hobby work up till 2020. in about April brought home my father's radial arm saw (RAS) and the 6 inch jointer planer and 12 inch swing lathe all early 1980 all Craftsman tools.
> 
> all have been restored and are running well. later that year I was at an estate sale for some small hand tools and found Craftsman 12in band saw 6 inch large free standing sander, small 3-inch sander, lathe parts that replaced the missing parts for my father's lathe. also a 6 in benchtop grinder.
> 
> ...


I inherited a lot of tools from my Dad after his passing in 2015. I didn't do anything with them for a long time, as I kept them in storage. But now I'm using some of them and will be organizing them and determining what I want to keep or sell.

The most valuable to me was his air compressor, miter saw, circular saw, and grinder. I also received a ton of hand tools, small power tools, and plenty of extra hardware and supplies. The only issue is that he kept them in a garage where my mother smoked for decades. Stuff that was kept in containers/cases was fine, but stuff out in the open got the worst accumulation of smoke.

I cleaned up all his air compressor (2009 model), even the oil-less electric engine, and it's working well. Drained it, treated it, and it holds its max rated pressure just fine. But I need to install a new pressure regulator since it slowly leaks:












I haven't bothered cleaning up his miter saw yet. but it doesn't need much cleaning still it was stored away in a cabinet. I've used it many times so far. Not sure the age, but my guess is late 90s? And don't worry, I don't store it with the cord touching the blade like it's doing in this photo, as it got jostled when moving it for the photo:












To give you an idea of the smoke damage in the garage where these tools were kept, this was the wall from where she smoked. There was even a hood near it to exhaust the smoke. The first photo is AFTER I cleaned what I could and then patching holes, and the second is when the painting was done. It was a mess, but so much better now, and had to be done to get the place ready to rent out earlier this year:














Biotec said:


> I like the appearance to look good and run well. I believe the original poster ( @cipher ) has gotten past the easy part. the cleanup painting. to prepare to reassemble. I believe celebration and realignment it will take nearly as long as the teardown and clean up.


Thanks. Yeah, calibrating the saw will take a little bit of work, but shouldn't be too tough. Setting the 0 and 45 degree stops is easy, aligning the wings is easy, and aligning the splitter is easy. Aligning the motor mount can be a little more challenging, especially if I need to get creative since this table saw only has a fastener on one side. And grinding to make the flange true will be a challenge for me.



Biotec said:


> sorry about the long trivia.


No worries, it's good stuff!  I enjoy reading about that kind of stuff and other people's experiences.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher

Good day:

you are correct when you say setting angle stops is easy that is not the part I was referring to.

before you put the cabinet back on put the trunnion assembly back in place lightly tighten the 4 bolts.

now the fun and hard part. I find it easier to suspend the top between two table tops so I can get you the four bolts easily. the blade must be parallel and dead on to your miter slots.

now put on a known good blade back on. it must not wobble any amount.
or buy a new one and still check it.

my guess you probably do not have a dial indicator.

rotate blade and make sure it does not drag just barely touches as you rotate all the way around.

there many good videos on how to do this. watch the videos then read and try the next part.

I took a piece of three-quarter inch would that would just fit in the miter saw about 8 inches long by about 3" high. use a 2 x 4 x 8" or 2 x 6 x 8" drill a quarter inch or 5/16 hole through it where you can run a pencil not sharpen. drill a hole in top outboard over your through Hole let's tread a machine screw into the hole this will allow you to bind the pencell where it won't move back and forth easily.
I found some videos showing how to do this.


saw alignment 1

saw alignment 2

saw alignment 3

good luck


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @cipher
> 
> Good day:
> 
> ...


Thanks! Video 2 looks a bit more useful than the first since I wouldn't rely on wood for measurements.

That's not too bad. Should be easy to adjust the trunnions provided the 0 and 45 degree angles are off by similar amounts. It only gets tricky if I'd need to add shims to correct the 45 degree blade placememt.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher
remember to mark the saw tooth you going to use. there are left and right teeth on the blade


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

I've mocked up the cart I'll make for this saw in my CAD software. I tried to keep it simple. It's all 2x4s and one piece of 1/2" plywood. Simple butt joints with heavy screws, and four bolts to join the table to the cart.

The casters and levelers are just representative and not accurate. For the actual flip up/down casters I'll be using, scroll up to one of my previous posts.










This cart can catch some saw dust, but it's really to serve as a temporary place to throw cut off scraps.

I plan to add long wood screws from the bottom, and recess them slightly to attach all of the 2x4s, and shorter ones to attach the plywood. Then I'll use two long wood screws at each corner to attach the sides to the cross beams. The cross beams are also screwed to the 2x4 under it. The table legs are right around 2x2 inches, so I think this design will work well. And I could use an extra 1 1/2" of height (plus a little when leveling) on the saw since I'm 6' tall.

Screws from bottom and then from sides:










The force exerted from the levelers and wheels should press inward, towards each other in this orientation. Since I don't have my table saw back together yet, I'll just be using my miter saw for the 2x4s and circular saw with a fence to cut the plywood. I have plenty of spare 2x4s, plywood, and wood screws in my garage.

Questions...

Do you think this is a good design?

Should I paint it the same light gray color as my arbor housing and cradle, or should I stain and finish it?


As for the other parts, they turned out pretty good. I'll be sanding and polishing all of the smooth surfaces and shaft holes before putting it back together. I'll probably keep the motor mount holes painted, since you position the motor mount once and let it in place (one less area to rust over time).

I forgot to remove the tape on one smooth section in the foreground for the cradle photo...







































The stand itself is in really good condition. I'm not sure if I want to paint it or not. After cleaning it, I did use rust inhibitor to treat any exposed metal near the bottom where the previous owner drilled holes for wheels, and where things rubbed against it. I also treated the bolts. Thoughts on painting it or not?


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

cipher said:


> The casters and levelers are just representative and not accurate. For the actual flip up/down casters I'll be using, scroll up to one of my previous posts.


Those lifting casters stick out a lot, but you have them going out under the wings, so they are out of the way of your feet, good.

Most of the lateral loads in use are fore/aft, maybe increase the base of the leveler feet in that direction? Moving the rear feet to the rear instead of the rear of the sides shouldn't be a problem, bring the front ones all the way to the front if they won't be toe catchers.

Are those legs 2x4s ripped in half? I'd leave them full 2x4, to be sure. The legs will have some anti racking strength from the tops and bottoms, but I'd still use bracing. You could use plywood triangles, I'd probably use rectangles, at least one full side and the full rear.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Bob, thanks for the good feedback...



Bob Bengal said:


> Those lifting casters stick out a lot, but you have them going out under the wings, so they are out of the way of your feet, good.


Yup, they do stick out quite a bit due to their design, so I intentionally oriented them to the sides.



Bob Bengal said:


> Most of the lateral loads in use are fore/aft, maybe increase the base of the leveler feet in that direction? Moving the rear feet to the rear instead of the rear of the sides shouldn't be a problem, bring the front ones all the way to the front if they won't be toe catchers.


I thought about that, but then having them mounted to the front and back of this cart would have them screwed into the wood parallel to the grain. I thought that might be a weak point, so I oriented them to the sides, but as far to the edges as possible. I could also make the cart deeper, but then as you mentioned above, it would get in the way of where I place my feet when using the table saw.



Bob Bengal said:


> Are those legs 2x4s ripped in half? I'd leave them full 2x4, to be sure. The legs will have some anti racking strength from the tops and bottoms, but I'd still use bracing. You could use plywood triangles, I'd probably use rectangles, at least one full side and the full rear.


Everything is a full 2x4 except for the plywood tray that rests on top. The sides are two 2x4s joined lengthwise. I thought about adding metal brackets to reinforce, but I think this design should be sturdy enough to last a long, long time. If I'm not happy with its strength, I can always add metal brackets later. Most of the weight will be distributed along the 2x4 box structure along its greater dimension of 3.5 inches.

I'll certainly post photos when it's assembled and will update here if I run into any issues or concerns.

Thanks!


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

I completed most of the cart on Saturday. It turned out pretty well. And although I drilled ahead of all of my screws, I had one small split when screwing parallel to the grain. That was due to a weak spot in the wood next to a knot, so I resolved it by drilling and putting a screw perpendicular to the split.

I cut down two of my spare 8 foot 2x4s leftover from when I made sliders to help move large containers up/down stairs. These had a few steel plate claw marks and nail/screw holes, but generally in decent shape...












My spare 6' piece of plywood was next, leftover from extra garage shelving that I took apart years ago. My fence was too high for the circular saw, so I just used a long straight edge...












Cuts were acceptable for that miter saw with an old blade and circular saw with an old blade that had low tooth count. Very mild burning at the grain, but not too much. I'll be sanding the edges of everything any ways...












For the screws to attach each 2x4, I used up various random types/sizes from my spare and recycled parts. It's quite a hodgepodge of different threads, alloys, etc...












When I mounted the plywood, I had to dig into one my assortments of new screws. Cheaper zinc plated was fine for this...












I over-countersunk all of the screws that were entered from the bottom, as I'll be filling those holes with wood filler. I don't want any exposed metal of various, unknown alloys exposed. The cart will be a permanent structure, and the plywood shelf is the only easily replaced component.

All assembled, aside from the casters and levelers, and with the legs positioned...












The casters came we really cheap screws that I wouldn't trust to hold up over time. I stripped the heads of two out of three with my driver, and that was after pre-drilling screw holes in soft wood. It was so bad that I had to back out the screws with a pair of vice grip pliers. So I'll need to go buy some quality stainless steel screws to replace them. But here's what they'll look like at each corner (and yes the caster clears the leveler when spun around 360 degrees):












I'll be cutting down the edges of the outside 2x4s to match the leg angle, probably with a jig saw. Then I'll hand plane and sand the rest of it.

Once that's all done, do you think I should stain/seal or paint it?


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

Looks nice!

I don't think I've read all the posts in this thread, so hopefully I'm not repeating something.

Those Craftsman legs/stands really twisted and bounced around when they were raised up with the casters Sears sold. It made it tough to move the tool around even on a fairly smooth floor (the same basic stands were sold for RASs, jointers, etc.). The good side was the rubber feet that touched the floor when the wheels were retracted held the legs pretty steady when you were working. We tied all of the legs together with 1x3s about 8" up from the bottom which made moving the tools much easier. I think it also improved the strength of the legs when they were down on the rubber feet. I don't think you will have a problem with your design, but you might want to think about removing the rubber feet/bolt if you haven't already (I can't tell from the pictures) and bolt the bottom of the legs to your cart.

You probably thought of this: your cart is going to fill up with saw dust. When we first added the supports to ours, we also had a plywood bottom. We thought it would be a good place to store things (miter gauge, wrenches, etc.). We never though of the saw dust coming down from the saw. Eventually we removed it and just left the 1x3s between the legs. I guess it was a matter of whether or not we wanted the saw dust on the floor or the "shelf" and we picked the floor.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Woodworking Wolf said:


> Looks nice!


Thanks. 



Woodworking Wolf said:


> I don't think I've read all the posts in this thread, so hopefully I'm not repeating something.
> 
> Those Craftsman legs/stands really twisted and bounced around when they were raised up with the casters Sears sold. It made it tough to move the tool around even on a fairly smooth floor (the same basic stands were sold for RASs, jointers, etc.). The good side was the rubber feet that touched the floor when the wheels were retracted held the legs pretty steady when you were working. We tied all of the legs together with 1x3s about 8" up from the bottom which made moving the tools much easier. I think it also improved the strength of the legs when they were down on the rubber feet. I don't think you will have a problem with your design, but you might want to think about removing the rubber feet/bolt if you haven't already (I can't tell from the pictures) and bolt the bottom of the legs to your cart.


Yup, they're gone. The seller only had three of them anyways, and I wasn't interested in trying to track down a set of them online since I wanted it mounted on a cart. Also, I have to use those holes to mount the legs to the stand with one bolt in each leg/corner.



Woodworking Wolf said:


> You probably thought of this: your cart is going to fill up with saw dust. When we first added the supports to ours, we also had a plywood bottom. We thought it would be a good place to store things (miter gauge, wrenches, etc.). We never though of the saw dust coming down from the saw. Eventually we removed it and just left the 1x3s between the legs. I guess it was a matter of whether or not we wanted the saw dust on the floor or the "shelf" and we picked the floor.


Indeed, that's part of the plan. I expect to use that cart as both sawdust collection and a place to throw cut off scraps. 

I originally explored the idea of sawdust collection, but sadly for this model the only feasible way would be to seal off the cabinet and add a port to attach to a shop vacuum. And that leaves the parts inside susceptible to saw dust build up over time. So I decided to leave it in its original, open configuration, and just use an air compressor to clean it out once in a while.


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## Woodworking Wolf (Sep 17, 2021)

cipher said:


> So I decided to leave it in its original, open configuration, and just use an air compressor to clean it out once in a while.


Pretty much what I do. I saw a picture years ago where the person put plywood partly up the legs to make it like a bin to catch as much sawdust as possible. He had a door he would open to suck out the sawdust with a shop vac.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

cipher said:


> Once that's all done, do you think I should stain/seal or paint it?


I leave my shop projects bare wood, hasn't been a problem in my garage-shop that is big temp and humidity changes.

And [email protected], when I looked at your CAD plans I thought you were replacing the saw's legs, that's why I asked if you were using 2x2s for them.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Bob Bengal said:


> I leave my shop projects bare wood, hasn't been a problem in my garage-shop that is big temp and humidity changes.


Thanks. Yeah, my current workbench and shelving is just bare wood in the garage. It was built by the previous owner of my house, so I'd guess that it's about a decade old and still fine. I did modify it quite a bit over the years. It makes a big difference having a finished, attached garage. Even if it's not temperature/humidity controlled, it still gets protected from big temperature swings since it's attached.

I'm leaning to just stain and finish since that will give it a bit of protection. And I'm a little reluctant to paint soft wood since any ding or chip will look bad. Yet I'm still open to suggestions.



Bob Bengal said:


> And [email protected], when I looked at your CAD plans I thought you were replacing the saw's legs, that's why I asked if you were using 2x2s for them.


Haha! No worries, I was wondering why you mentioned that. Now it makes sense.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

I'm was able to get back to these projects a little last weekend. They have been put on delay for a while thanks to other weekend work.

In getting some of my dad's old tools out of storage bins to do the power sanding, I have two orbital sanders (not sure why he had two?) and one detail sander for corners...












I hand planed the top a bit to line up joins, then sanded everything. It looks like the miter saw did not burn the wood, as sanding did not remove it. It's just the grain in this wood is very dark...












I opted to stain instead of paint it. I used some leftover Minwax oil-based Provincial stain to apply a few coats for its darkest effect. I wanted it dark so that I can easily see sawdust...


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## Kenh3497 (Jun 5, 2021)

Probably had each sander set up with a different grit for course and find sanding.

Ken


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Over the past couple of weekends I had a little time here and there to work on the table saw. One of the last steps before reassembling it was to clean and polish most of the little hardware parts, including the bolts, washers, spacers, and lift & tilt screws. And do that quickly, I needed to get my Dad's old Delta 8" bench-top grinder cleaned up and working well. I also bought a few wire brush and polishing wheels.

Condition of the grinder right out of storage with many years of dust, dirt, and cigarette smoke (my Mother smoked in the garage)...










It seems to be a ~2001 or later model...












I might add a dimmer knob to it later so that I can control the speed. The grinder states 120 volts at 3.0 amps, so it should draw 360 watts (120V x 3A). I can get a simple light dimmer that's rated for 600W which should be good even for spike wattage right when you power it on. If I move the power switch and make my own plate for the controls, I should have enough room inside the base for both. But that's a future project.

In the process of cleaning this grinder, I had to take off the safety covers. And to do that I needed to remove both flanges, but the problem is that the inside flanges have a groove where they rest and can't easily be pulled off the auger. I'm not sure if those groves are from wear and tear or by design. Either way, I had to use one of my gear pullers to remove it. I wasn't worried about bending it since it only needed a little bit of force...












Removing the base revealed what looks like a repair job done on it in the past. Note the orange wire nut which isn't standard. And the wires have been vibrating again the base plate, making wear marks...












The rubber feet aren't too bad, but still I soaked the feet in ArmorAll to keep them from cracking or drying out more...












Base of the grinder all cleaned up, so now on to the lamp...












I noticed that the plastic wire loom on the lamp is nasty, even after cleaning. It was caked with cigarette smoke, so I'm replacing it with a nice silver-gray braid that should fit...












It's a tight fit, but I did get it installed, and will melt the ends to keep it from fraying...












Bulb socket for the lamp is rated for 40W, but that's 40W of electricity and heat from an incandescent bulb. I'm putting in a 6W or 12W LED bulb later...













Putting the lamp back together, and redoing the wiring connections...











(continued...)


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Since this grinder can generate a lot of vibrations, I'm wrapping the connections in weather stripping. That should also help keep the wires from resting on the base directly. I placed a piece of flat sticky foam on the bottom plate as well, from 9x6" sheets I cut to size (not shown)...












Grinder is running and lamp is working well with a 6 watt LED bulb...












I think the silver-gray braid looks better than the original black plastic loom...












Grinder is now thoroughly cleaned and reassembled with a wire brush and polishing wheel. I would normally use a polish wheel spindle, but that Amazon order hasn't arrived yet. Fortunately if I keep the flanges tight enough and don't apply too much pressure while polishing, the wheel doesn't slip.












-----------------> Back to the table saw restoration! 

Wire brush work on the tilt screw to take off the metal on the surface that oxidized from its vinegar bath...












I then polished all of the larger hardware parts, including all of the bolts. I used a fairly course polish compound stick (it's a reddish-brown color), as I'm doing this for functionality more than anything else. It was messy, so I performed this at the edge of my garage for easy cleanup. The wheel and grinder after a lot of polishing work...













These polished parts came out pretty good and should be a little more resistant to rust and corrosion now. The long, skinny motor mount bolt on the left will need to go back to wire-brushing again since it has some pitting, but others fared well. I didn't take a photo of all of the hardware, just a sampling to show the difference...












Final comparison of the lift screw through the stages of restoration...


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Excellent results, good job on this!


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

Wow - I don't think I've ever seen anyone go that far in restoring or cleaning up a bench motor like that.
Well done young feller, well done indeed. All of your projects are coming alone quite nicely.


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

It's been a couple months since I've been able to work on these projects, let alone update here. Life's priorities have a way of trumping our hobbies.  Sorry it took so long to update this thread.

A month ago I completed the cart's assembly of the retractable casters and leveling feet. And then last weekend I disassembled the table saw's steel legs/base in preparation to clean and paint. I'll include more photos of the cart later, but for now I'll share my painting of the legs/base.

I matched the paint color with the help of a Napa store in the next town, as my local Napa didn't paint match. They matched the paint very well and filled up two spray cans for me, along with some extra in small cans to touchup any scratches with a brush in the future. It turned out pretty well for a rattle can paint job!

The original model and serial number tag was mounted rather haphazardly. Since I was repainting, I decided now's the time to remove it and then mount it properly after it's painted...












I expected it to be more difficult to remove, but it came off fairly well with no creases or damage to the foil label:












Model/serial label area prepped:






















Only the table legs had some areas of rust, which I treated with scouring/finishing pads and WD40. But the rest of the surface that was rust free I deep cleaned with scouring/finishing pads and window cleaner, which only took up a little bit of gray from the painted surfaces. That prepped it really well. Suds from scouring the surface:























I left the large Sears/Craftsman metal label in place and just taped it up before painting. I also removed the angle guide:












My paint-matched supplies...


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Parts ready for painting...





















The painting is done!...












Time to remove the painter's masking tape...












The base pieces and legs turned out really well too!





















Now I can start reassembling my refurbished table saw. I should have a lot of free time during my two weeks off from work around Christmas.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Very nicely done!


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher 
based on the tag it is 1990s machine. printing is dots. it is not the blue gray of the old years. late 60s to mid 90s
from my own travels. from the tag it is 93 for a while the next 3 number was the day number.









still it makes a good looking saw

good luck


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @cipher
> based on the tag it is 1990s machine. printing is dots. it is not the blue gray of the old years. late 60s to mid 90s
> from my own travels. from the tag it is 93 for a while the next 3 number was the day number.
> View attachment 445191
> ...


@Biotec, thanks for confirming that. From the looks of the saw, I did think it was a 93, but wasn't 100% positive. Now you've confirmed that for me. Looks like it was built on January 20th of 1993 if those are indeed days into the year?


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher 
january is the only month that the first 30 days work. like day 040 is February 09.
365 day calendar or weeks numbers 
some companies' use week numbers


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

@Biotec, thanks. You explained it well before, as that's what I was thinking (1-365 with 364 for leap year).


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

also the older blue gray was from Krylon Industrial Tough Coat 03290 Machinery Blue Gray Gloss Acrylic Enamel Paint - 16 oz Aerosol Can - 12 oz Net Weight - 90329 can NOT be found.
the color was dead on. at least to my old eyes.

can you share the paint number that Nappa used


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## cipher (6 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> also the older blue gray was from Krylon Industrial Tough Coat 03290 Machinery Blue Gray Gloss Acrylic Enamel Paint - 16 oz Aerosol Can - 12 oz Net Weight - 90329 can NOT be found.
> the color was dead on. at least to my old eyes.
> 
> can you share the paint number that Nappa used


Unfortunately this was a custom match, so there was no code or percentages recorded by Napa. They scan it with a device, then they adjust by eye with manual paint tests. I just called over there and they did not have any percentages they track since they adjusted it by hand. They used the Spray Max system to do it with the Spray Max 1k FillClean 3682017 high viscosity product.

By the way, I opted for a more satin finish instead of the glossy look.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@cipher 
thanks at least it is place to try to the the close color.
have a grand weekend.


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