# Cap iron screw



## Chipbrkr (Aug 2, 2021)

How thick of a screwdriver do most use to loosen and tight the screw on chip breaker trying find one or make one that won't tear up the slot . Thanks in advance for any advice


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Chip breaker on 'what' plane (I assume plane)? I can imagine there are many different sizes and types. Photos will help, btw.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

On any slotted screw head the right sized blade, one that fits the slot, should be used. Using the wrong screwdriver or one worn out on slotted head screws has contributed greatly to their bad reputation.


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## johnedp34 (Jun 30, 2016)

You should be able to hold the screw with the screwdriver horizontal.
johnep


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

A large screw driver, but non will fit the slot completely without grinding it down.

90% of the time I use the edge of the cap iron. Yeah, I know................


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## Bullseyeguy (Apr 28, 2017)

If you are serious about not damaging the slot, buy a hollow ground screwdriver bit (or a whole set). Most screwdriver blades are tapered. When you twist them the taper want to lift out of the slot. The hollow ground bits are not tapered at the end of the blade, and are used for gunsmithing specifically so that they do not damage the slots. 

This one isn't my first choice, but it would probably work fine for what you are trying to accomplish...




__





BROWNELLS BROWNING AUTO-5 SCREWDRIVER SET | Brownells


On the bench or in the field, you'll have the right screwdrivers for your gun in one compact, go-anywhere package. We precisely matched ...



www.brownells.com





This is a better set, but may be much more than you want...








72 Piece Professional Gunsmithing Screwdriver Set | Wheeler


72 Piece Professional Gunsmithing Screwdriver Set




www.wheelertools.com





Cheers!

Brad


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## Bullseyeguy (Apr 28, 2017)

Oh yeah.... and the bits come in many different widths, as well as different blade thicknesses. Match the correct width and thickness to the slot.

B


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## Chipbrkr (Aug 2, 2021)

Chipbrkr said:


> How thick of a screwdriver do most use to loosen and tight the screw on chip breaker trying find one or make one that won't tear up the slot . Thanks in advance for any advice


This is for Stanley No.3 No.4 No.5 . Problem solved , saw that Lie Nielson has screwdriver just for this , looked it up and made my own version , works good


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

I must be a heathen because I just use a normal screwdriver 🙃


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

BigCountry79 said:


> I must be a heathen because I just use a normal screwdriver 🙃


Agree. The cap iron doesn’t need to be cranked down that tight, just enough to resist the depth adjuster and hold in place. Half the time I use the lever cap itself. That said, I’m using planes with thicker irons and much more rigid cap irons than Stanley’s.

It does help ti use a “plane screwdriver” for the frog adjustment screws. I simply ground the bulges out of a big screwdriver. 

I think because the Stanley blades and cap irons are thin, the tendency is to over tighten and over clamp or else you can get chatter. At least this was my experience. Really it’s just enough lever clamp pressure to hold firmly against frog, & pay 4 times as much attention to frog position and honing the iron 

For those using the old Stanley’s I suggest you give a thicker blade/cap iron a try. You’ll have a different experience. Veritas makes a replacement specific to Stanley.


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## terryh (Nov 11, 2013)

Back in the 1950s when I was enrolled in the shop class that all boys took, we were taught to use the cap iron to adjust both the cap iron screw and the screw joining the chip breaker and iron. I’ve been doing it that way ever since. No need for a screw driver.


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## Chipbrkr (Aug 2, 2021)

To each his own ...just saying


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## terryh (Nov 11, 2013)

Chipbrkr said:


> To each his own ...just saying


Give it a try. I guarantee it won’t damage the screw slot which I believe was the original issue… just saying. The simplest solution is often the best.


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

Chipbrkr said:


> How thick of a screwdriver do most use to loosen and tight the screw on chip breaker trying find one or make one that won't tear up the slot . Thanks in advance for any advice


I haven't had this problem as almost any flat blade screwdriver works for me , See if a coin fits the slot, then insert the coin and turn , use a pair of pliers if needed. I would think you could grind a tool to fit the slot . Slice off an old screwdriver with a dremel tool.Then grind to fit. The Dremel makes short work and also prevents undo heat from prolong grinding.
mike


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## YME (Feb 22, 2018)

If you are putting enough torque on the screw that it could damage it then you are using way too much torque. Mine can normally be adjusted with fingers alone with the lever cap loosened. I have seen some lever caps chipped by using them on tightened screws and don't recommend using that method except when the screws are fairly loose anyway. My biggest problem has been when loosening heavily rusted tools. I soak those in solutions specifically for rusted connectors, tap them gently to help loosen them, and then use a well fitting screw driver. If they still resist I let them soak some more and tap them again with a soft hammer. Heat can help to loosen them also. Repeat as necessary until they turn with little effort.


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## YME (Feb 22, 2018)

Sorry, I jumped to the wrong issue. I have never had an issue with damaging the cap iron screw just using a screwdriver but have had to place the blade and cap assembly into a vise in order to use both hands to control the process and recommend doing that in order to prevent issues with slipping screwdrivers and the hand holding the assembly. Again, I have seen cap irons chipped out from using them to tighten screws.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

DrRobert said:


> A large screw driver, but non will fit the slot completely without grinding it down.
> 
> 90% of the time I use the edge of the cap iron. Yeah, I know................


That’s how/why there are so many broken cap irons. This is a stupid dilemma, because I have yet to see a correct screwdriver for this task — the slot is way too thick. I have had luck using a stamped sheet steel wrench for an old Porter Cable trim router.

thankfully, my Lee Valley replacement blade +chip breaker came with a modern screw that actually fits a normal screwdriver.


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

Chipbrkr said:


> How thick of a screwdriver do most use to loosen and tight the screw on chip breaker trying find one or make one that won't tear up the slot . Thanks in advance for any advice


I replaced a lost cap screw with a socket head cap screw. Allen wrench is better than a slot. Actually I do not need to use the allen wrench, finger tight is all.
mike


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## RioVistaAndy (Feb 22, 2021)

Chipbrkr said:


> How thick of a screwdriver do most use to loosen and tight the screw on chip breaker trying find one or make one that won't tear up the slot . Thanks in advance for any advice


If you go to Paul Sellers YouTube site or his web site he has a great tutorial on this subject. He shows how to make one that will fit properly and not skip out. I used his idea and instead of using an old plastic door knob I used a cut off piece from a turning I had made. It's not hard. Only non woodworking tool you'll need is a hacksaw and a propane/map gas torch.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

kwoodhands said:


> I replaced a lost cap screw with a socket head cap screw. Allen wrench is better than a slot. Actually I do not need to use the allen wrench, finger tight is all.
> mike


And it clears the cap iron? I like this suggestion.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd need to check this out, but wouldn't a US Quarter or Half Dollar coin fit in the slot? Back when guys carried change in their pockets that would be handy enough!


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## Dave McCann (Jun 21, 2020)

kwoodhands said:


> I replaced a lost cap screw with a socket head cap screw. Allen wrench is better than a slot. Actually I do not need to use the allen wrench, finger tight is all.
> mike





Scurvy said:


> And it clears the cap iron? I like this suggestion.


Most likely need what is referred to as a "low head" Allen cap screw.


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## RioVistaAndy (Feb 22, 2021)

Dave McCann said:


> Most likely need what is referred to as a "low head" Allen cap screw.
> View attachment 429741


You'll need to check for clearence with the top of the frog. May need to cut it down. Stanley's are only a couple of threads long.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Scurvy said:


> That’s how/why there are so many broken cap irons.


I ground the blade back to a thicker part. A stubby screwdriver works well.

Re: using the lever cap as a screwdriver, I should have said I am not talking about Stanley planes. I understand not wanting to damage a vintage plane. Both the lever cap as well as the blade/cap iron are much thicker on my planes.

To be clear, I’m not advocating using the lever cap as a screwdriver, but to point out how tight both the cap iron and lever screws should be. 

Having once used them, I do think there is a tendency to overtighten the screw on the thin, flexible cap iron on Stanley’s, due to their tendency to chatter, again, related to the thin blades and cap iron, the lever screw also tends to be more tight.

Applying a little Camella or Jotoba oil to the frog face is s good idea, too.


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## RioVistaAndy (Feb 22, 2021)

DrRobert said:


> I ground the blade back to a thicker part. A stubby screwdriver works well.
> 
> Re: using the lever cap as a screwdriver, I should have said I am not talking about Stanley planes. I understand not wanting to damage a vintage plane. Both the lever cap as well as the blade/cap iron are much thicker on my planes.
> 
> ...


A well set up quality Stanley, even those from the turn of the century will not chatter. It is Operator Error. 
The big reason not to use the cap iron, especially if it is cast iron is that this can cause breakage of the edge and no amount of grinding can bring it back to working order. I have a few in my collection that I cannot use because of this. I would sell them but they were my grandfather's and great grandfather's.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

RioVistaAndy said:


> A well set up quality Stanley, even those from the turn of the century will not chatter. It is Operator Error.
> The big reason not to use the cap iron, especially if it is cast iron is that this can cause breakage of the edge and no amount of grinding can bring it back to working order. I have a few in my collection that I cannot use because of this. I would sell them but they were my grandfather's and great grandfather's.


I think the terminology is getting messed up, and I apologize. The cap iron is also called the chip breaker. The lever cap is what we're talking about. 

It doesn't seem the lever cap would be cast iron, but I could be wrong about that, its be a while since I had any Stanley planes.

But I totally agree with you re: chatter. IMO its mostly due to a dull plane iron. That said, it was always my impression the thinner Stanley chip breaker/irons units need to be clamped down tighter than thick irons and chip breakers. I do know when I upgraded them to the Veritas replacement iron/chip breakers, I could see a definite difference in the performance!

I think you can easily find replacement lever caps. If those planes you have are pre-WWII, they are valuable and worth restoring. There are a couple sites with tons of information on dating, etc. if you want to check: Supertool.com and hyperkitty.com. 

There is also a fellow who sells planes and parts who is extremely knowledgeable. Timetestedtools.com


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## RioVistaAndy (Feb 22, 2021)

DrRobert said:


> I think the terminology is getting messed up, and I apologize. The cap iron is also called the chip breaker. The lever cap is what we're talking about.
> 
> It doesn't seem the lever cap would be cast iron, but I could be wrong about that, its be a while since I had any Stanley planes.
> 
> ...


My Stanley planes are from 1888 to 1946. They all have original factory irons. I am going to try a Hock blade in my #7. I use this primarily on end grain W/shooting board. The original blades have the same thickness as new ones as well as their compatriots. 
The use of cast iron for lever caps (my fault before) is universal to all plane manufacturers until at least WW2. I know LV and Veritus use brass to build them as of late.
The brass ones are even more susceptible to damage when trying to use them as a screwdriver. After gouging my hands enough times I built a specific screwdriver. You can get them on the web or make your own as I explained earlier. If you buy one make sure it fits your plane because it is my impression that the one by Veritus does not fit other planes as the blade is to thick.
Good luck and Happy Planing To You.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Very nice!

I promise I will start using my screw driver again!

My 4, 6 and 7 are WoodRiver and my 4 1/2 is Lie Nielsen. WR makes a screwdriver to fit their planes 19 bucks. 

Stocking stuffer!


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## RioVistaAndy (Feb 22, 2021)

DrRobert said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I promise I will start using my screw driver again!
> 
> ...


Oh, There is promise in you, Grasshopper.


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