# Jet Vortex



## rattletrap (Dec 17, 2012)

Anyone have any thoughts/experience with the Jet Vortex collectors? Anyone satisfied?


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

it's a great way to waste a really nice amount of money on a 1.5hp DC. at $700 (amazon with a 2 micron canister filter), it, like all tools from walter meier, isn't worth what it cost. i added a "cone' to my delta 50-850 using a discarded frying pan as the "vortex cone", and the improvement in the collector's performance was dramatic:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40189

i'd CL my search and then add the cone yourself or create a thien baffle in place of the vortex. costs less and works better.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

rattletrap said:


> Anyone have any thoughts/experience with the Jet Vortex collectors? Anyone satisfied?


I have a 1 1/2HP Jet cannister dust collector and hated cleaning the cannister.

I saw the Vortex articles and decided to make a cone.

I ended up with a Thien baffle, which I feel is working very well. Only a few weeks since the install.

I posted a thread. In the end I was surprised how easy the baffle was to make and install.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/making-dust-collector-cone-separator-44695/


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## rattletrap (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks for your input Toolguy. I haven't even bought a dust collector of any sort yet, still thinking about what kind I want that suits my needs and budget. I love Phil for creating his baffle, helps a lot of woodworkers. My question is If i build a preseperator using a Thein baffle and a trash can and then discharge into a DC such as yours, then the bottom collector bag and top canister filter basically work in tandum. Meaning what ever "heavies" escape the preseperator and enters to DC, will there be a secondary seperation in the DC. I assume not. I assume the DC's top and bottom just act as one and there is no more separation. If this is the case then there is wasted space in your shop and installing the baffle in the DC itself works to your advantage. I think there is a question in there somewhere.

Mr. Paine, I am impressed with your Thein baffle installation in the DC unit. Just how difficult is it to remove the bottom bag due to retaining ring issue. Since I don't have a DC yet I am not sure how the retaining ring fits and how the baffle will interfere with it.

Jim


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

rattletrap said:


> Thanks for your input Toolguy. I haven't even bought a dust collector of any sort yet, still thinking about what kind I want that suits my needs and budget. I love Phil for creating his baffle, helps a lot of woodworkers. My question is If i build a preseperator using a Thein baffle and a trash can and then discharge into a DC such as yours, then the bottom collector bag and top canister filter basically work in tandum. Meaning what ever "heavies" escape the preseperator and enters to DC, will there be a secondary seperation in the DC. I assume not. I assume the DC's top and bottom just act as one and there is no more separation. If this is the case then there is wasted space in your shop and installing the baffle in the DC itself works to your advantage. I think there is a question in there somewhere.
> 
> Mr. Paine, I am impressed with your Thein baffle installation in the DC unit. Just how difficult is it to remove the bottom bag due to retaining ring issue. Since I don't have a DC yet I am not sure how the retaining ring fits and how the baffle will interfere with it.
> 
> Jim


On my Jet model, the lower bag is held by a special large flexible band which fits inside the steel collar in the groove. In my thread someone noticed I installed the baffle to be just above the groove so I did not get interference with the band holding the bag.

You can see the groove in my post #11 in my thread. Post #13 discusses the groove.

The benefit of the Thien baffle over the Jet Vortex seems to be the lack of air movement in the lower bag. Before I installed the baffle, the contents of the lower bag would swirl around and a lot would end up in the upper cannister.

Using a pre-separator with a Thien baffle will work to remove most of the debris, but then whatever fines are left will collect in the cannister as well as the bag. There will be fewer fines. I just do not know what this will mean to frequency of cleaning the cannister.

Pre-separators are popular, but they do have a pressure drop, so there will be some impact on overall airflow/suction.

With my baffle being on the discharge (positive pressure) side of the blower, I feel any such impact is minimized if any impact.

Edit forgot to answer about bag removal.

Removing the lower plastic bag is the same with the baffle. I have to get hold of the plastic and slide my nails of some thin piece of metal under the flexible bag to force the band away from the collar. Once this is done the band and bag are easily removed.

Since this is done from the bottom of the collar, the Thien baffle does not interfere.


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## 65BAJA (May 27, 2012)

Dave, I'm trying to visualize your set up. Could your post a pic or a link to one?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

65BAJA said:


> Dave, I'm trying to visualize your set up. Could your post a pic or a link to one?


My thread was linked in an earlier post.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/m...parator-44695/

This is perhaps the best picture to illustrate the installation.

The baffle, 1/4in plywood, so I glued 3 pieces of 1/2in plywood scraps on top for the screws.









A view from the bottom of the collar showing the underside of the baffle and the groove for the flexible band which holds the bag.
The plywood blocks for the screws are just above the groove. The 120 deg segment at the inlet sits in the groove. Since only 1/4in ply it is not interfering with the flexible band.


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## rattletrap (Dec 17, 2012)

Wow. I am getting information overload on dust collection. Been researching this issue for the past 3 weeks and am getting burnt out. I just built a new shop (30 x 20 Metal Bldg) and want to make woodworking my hobby when i retire in 4.5 years. I love it. The bldg is insulated and has a airconditioner. But i am just starting out. Have a Table saw, router and table, bandsaw and various hand power tools. I am about to bite the bullet and purchase a Grizzly 2hp cyclone DC. I like the way they look and I like Grizzly products, the price seems reasonable, for this kind of unit. I know this would be the beginning, duct work would have to be designed, but that can come a little later after I research that more and budget allows. I am in no hurry. Fred and Dave do you think I am going overboard with this DC? I know that is a hard question to answer since it is not a black and white issue. You both seem to be very knowledgable and i get the impression you have been in woodworking for quite sometime. I do plan to spend a lot of time when the retirement day arrives and even before then, but work right now gets in the way. I would appreciate your response to this.

Merry Christmas

jim


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Merry Christmas Jim*

Dust collection falls into 3 types. Suction of chips and dust from the 4" port of the tool, suction off the blade or cutterhead, and overhead filtering and cleansing of the air to remove anything the DC system missed and it usually does miss the very smallest particles.
You really need all 3 types for the best efficiency and the cleanest air. :yes:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

rattletrap said:


> Have a Table saw, router and table, bandsaw and various hand power tools. I am about to bite the bullet and purchase a Grizzly 2hp cyclone DC. I like the way they look and I like Grizzly products, the price seems reasonable, for this kind of unit. I know this would be the beginning, duct work would have to be designed, but that can come a little later after I research that more and budget allows.


I know what you mean, it is so easy to get information overload on many topics.

Cyclones are more expensive than the non-cyclone models. If you can afford this, go for it.

If you are looking at the G0440 this looks to have decent specifications. I have a Grizzly bandsaw. If you are within driving distance of a Grizzly showroom, I would pick up the unit. A lot of problems with heavy tools can happen in the shipment from manufacturer to user with common carriers. I am lucky, I live only a few hours drive from the PA showroom. I visit perhaps once a year.

In my shop height is a problem. I have the typical 8ft walls, which means only just over 7ft under the joists.

I was considering replacing my Jet DC with a smaller cyclone which would fit within my height constraint. If my Thien baffle works to avoid having to clean the cannister a few times a year, it will allow me to put off my own replacement decision.

The duct decision is worthy of its own thread. I would love to be able to spend the money on a steel system with wide radius fittings, but not in the cards at this time.

With your 2Hp cyclone, if you can afford it, consider 5in steel duct for the main run and 4in drops for the tools.  Minimize any flex duct runs since this has much higher pressure drop than rigid duct.

As Woodnthings mentioned, also consider an air filter to clean the air for breathing. There is always some dust in the air since even the best dust collection system will not catch everything, and then it will push out some very fine particles.


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## rattletrap (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes I wish i lived near a Grizzly showroom, but I live in South Louisiana. I believe the closest is Missouri. I will have to rely on shipping. My ceiling heights are no problem, actually there is no ceiling. This area consists of the joist and trusses, with blown in foam insulation. I was thinking PVC ducting, with a 6 inch main line reduced to 4 inch lines to each tool. I know metal is better but PVC is cheaper and i have heard of no problems from any of the woodworkers on this forum using it. I have already purchased a JDS air filtration unit, it is on backorder. I think I am leaning towards a cyclone, probably Grizzly. To tell you the truth I am burnt out on this subject and just want to get started.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

rattletrap said:


> I was thinking PVC ducting, with a 6 inch main line reduced to 4 inch lines to each tool. I know metal is better but PVC is cheaper and i have heard of no problems from any of the woodworkers on this forum using it.


I have the common 4in PVC duct aka sewer pipe. The worse part is the sharp inside angle on the 90 deg fittings. I have relatively short runs, but I really should go up to 5in for the main line. The old time and money.

6in PVC will work. You want the smooth wall not corrugated. If the fittings are like mine, a bit more pressure drop than the wide radius of metal. I appreciate the metal is several times more expensive. That is why I do not yet have metal.

There is a lot of debate about whether PVC needs to be grounded to prevent the potential of static build up leading to sparks. There have been a number of threads on this topic. If you are concerned, you would need to run a bare copper wire inside the duct. Do a search on the forum if you want to see the earlier threads.

I have not experienced any static issues - so far.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I'm no expert but from my research and modest experience that cyclone and 6" ducting will work well for that space. Sounds like it's going to be a very nice shop! Glad you have the air filter coming too. I just added one and it's been very helpful keeping the fine dust out of my lungs and off my tools. Would love to see some pix of your shop!


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## GoIrish (Jan 29, 2012)

Try using 45s and wyes instead of 90s. It will help the pressure drop a fair bit.


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## rattletrap (Dec 17, 2012)

Well I am at another crossroad, about 50 in the last 3 weeks. I do want the Grizzley but can not justify this big machine for three tools. I only have a table saw and bandsaw and router. I don't even have a wall workbench cabinet built and don't really know at this point where I will be placing additional power tools in the future, thus making ducting design very difficult at this point. I think I will take it a little slower right now and get my shop fixed up with wallworkbench and dust proofing my contractor table saw. This is going to be a hobby and not a livelyhood. I will where my 3M half mask respirator and use the shop vac in the mean time. I am not even sure to what degree I am going to get into woodworking. I don't think I will become a cabinet maker. So many unknowns at this point. Purchasing a 2hp Grizzly cyclone now is like putting the cart before the horse.

Merry Christmas to all

Jim


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I can understand the apprehension. If you are going to use the shop vac in the meantime, it would be worth your while to make a pre-filter to save having the empty the shop vac as often.

This is a good thread on the topic. Inexpensive and works well.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/forget-dust-deputy-27235/


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*consider one of these then*



rattletrap said:


> Well I am at another crossroad, about 50 in the last 3 weeks. I do want the Grizzley but can not justify this big machine for three tools. I only have a table saw and bandsaw and router. I don't even have a wall workbench cabinet built and don't really know at this point where I will be placing additional power tools in the future, thus making ducting design very difficult at this point. I think I will take it a little slower right now and get my shop fixed up with wallworkbench and dust proofing my contractor table saw. This is going to be a hobby and not a livelyhood. I will where my 3M half mask respirator and use the shop vac in the mean time. I am not even sure to what degree I am going to get into woodworking. I don't think I will become a cabinet maker. So many unknowns at this point. Purchasing a 2hp Grizzly cyclone now is like putting the cart before the horse.
> 
> Merry Christmas to all Jim


You can make one like this for very little $$:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/forget-dust-deputy-27235/


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