# Cross Grain Situation



## TommyTenSpeed (Sep 16, 2011)

I want to replace the interior doors in my home and would like to make some 24 and 30 inch 6 panel doors. I have my first door’s stiles and rails cut and dry fitted together. However, upon assessing the design I noticed that I will have a serious cross grain situation on the rails (the top 2 are only 4 inches wide but the middle is 6 3/4” and the bottom is 8 3/4”). I noticed that on the commercially made doors I have elsewhere in my home that they have used engineered wood to alleviate this problem and since I have neither the time nor the inclination to make engineered rails I am concerned that my rails will split when glued. I am wondering if I seal the wood well with varnish if it will help prevent the wood movement. I live in St. Louis and leave my windows open as much as possible so between the humidity in the summer (which we are famous for) and the forced air electric heat in the winter that dries everything to the bone we are stricken with quite the extremes in weather/temperature/humidity. Your comments would be greatly appreciated as this project is now on hold until I find a remedy.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Personally, I always allow for worst conditions, wood movement.

The way you do your joinery and where you glue can be adapted to allow for this.


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## Chancewoodchuck (Sep 27, 2011)

*Cross grain scratches*

As a door builder myself we encounter cross grain scratching daily... the trick is to pay very close attention in the final sanding stage... as far as the moisture and humidity issues if there is really that big of a difference seasonally for you maybe you should use a outdoor grade glue titebond makes a very good one and application is no different than regular glue. The actual name is weatherproof titebondII.


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## TommyTenSpeed (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks Chuck,
I have solved the problem with the scratches but my concern is with the rails splitting after glue up. Have you had any problems with that in your door building experience?
Tom


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

What type of wood are you using for your doors.

That makes a huge difference in whether or not you have to worry about splitting.

George


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

One of the issues with making large doors, like passage or entry doors, is finding premium stock that has straight and stable grain characteristics. Doors may warp so they don't fit the jamb properly, particularly the long stiles. You didn't say how the rails and stiles would be joined. Wood moves the most across the face. Surface finishes will help reduce absorption of moisture but it can't completely stop it, especially as time passes and the finish degrades with micro checks. The key entry point for moisture is on the end grain, top and bottom of the stiles. You need to pay extra attention to getting that area well sealed.

The wider the piece of wood, the more likely you will see movement. Assuming you have carefully chosen your lumber and it's KD FAS, the narrow rails probably won't be an issue. The wider 8" bottom rail could show movement, particularly in your humidity conditions. When gluing up, I think it helps to prime the end grain with a light wash coat of glue since end grain will absorb a lot of the glue and there won't be much left to make the connection. If you are using a typical router bit set for doors, you will have a coped joint with a stub tenon. This alone isn't dependable over time, although, the cope increases the contact surfaces. It's advisable to drill through the stiles and add either screws or pins that go into the stub tenons. If the glue line breaks due to movement, you have a mechanical fastener that should prevent the joint from coming apart. 

One technique would be to only glue about one third to one half of the wider bottom rail, pin it at the top and bottom of the glue application and allow the bottom to move. This may mean the bottom rail sticks out past the ends of the stiles in high humidity and may be shorter than the stiles in low humidity. At least it may help control the movement to that area rather than somewhere else. It's a best practice but not 100% reliable. 

Door manufacturers use veneered stave core for a couple reasons. One is that they would have to reject a lot of lumber that isn't straight and stable grain and the other is to minimize movement that you would have with solid wood. I wouldn't loose sleep over your solid wood doors. Choose your lumber with care, make sure the profiles fit well, glue and pin the rail to stile connections, allow enough room for the panels to move so they don't push on that connection, seal end grain well. You should be fine.


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## Chancewoodchuck (Sep 27, 2011)

*Wide rail issue*

As a rule we do not glue up rail or stile parts we sort lumber order specifically for the wide application although with the rail i would be less concerned than the stile as the rail is going to get some support from the glue joint between the stile and itself . What style of joint are you using? How large is the tenon? I agree with hammer use fas lumber for sure. To me it would be worth a little extra cost to insure that i recieved enough wide lumber to build without having to glue up. And the type of wood makes a difference as well.


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## TommyTenSpeed (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks for your input Hammer, Chuck and George,
I am using S3S 6/4, kiln-dried red oak with no glue ups. I am using tenons on the rails (3/8" by 1/2" wide) and a corresponding dado in the stiles. 

I am considering using dado and loose tenons (a spline really) on the second door. What do you think?


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