# Harbor Freight DC



## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Hello all, 
I am close to getting my shop completed. With your help I've made some great purchases of tools.
I just purchased the Harbor Freight 2hp Dust Collector and put it together this morning. 
However, after buying the DC, I stopped at Rockler for a few things, one of them being a hose for the DC.
Being a newbie, I asked the sales clerk for help. I explained my plan to him, which I am going to explain to you now. I want to put the DC above my garage(shop), and run a pipe down thru the ceiling, and attach a wye at the bottom of the pipe, and run 2 hoses out of the wye. The pipe will be coming down the wall on the left side of the window and 220v receptacle. (see pics)
One hose will be for the table saw and planer. I plan on building a flip-top stand to hold my planer and Rigid sander. It will also be used as an outfeed table for TS. I don't have a DC port on my Unisaw yet.
The other half of the wye will go to the jointer and bandsaw (which I haven't bought yet), but I think I will be putting it in front of the window between the jointer and bench.
The clerk at Rocker told me it would be a bad idea to put my DC above the garage, being that it would have to pull the dust and chips up, which would cut its efficiency. He said that he owns the same DC and just wheels it to whichever machine he is using. 
Now I don't know what to do. He sold me a 21' hose, so I could do it his way, but I might take it back and get a shorter hose if I put the DC above the garage and run the pipe down the wall.
I wouldn't need 21' of hose even if I did it his way and rolled the DC to each machine.
As you will see from the pictures, I am trying to keep my machines as close together as I can, to eliminate the need for a lot of hose. 
If I ever figure out a way to put DC port on my Unisaw, I will still have the issue of the hose running across the floor, which I don't like. I was thinking of putting the wye at the ceiling, and continue running pipe down the wall to jointer/bandsaw, and then running pipe across the ceiling, connecting a 90, and at the 90, connecting the hose down for the TS/planer. Only problem with that is, I installed a ceiling fan when I built the garage, and it is in the way of where the hose would come down for the TS/planer.
I probably didn't explain my situation well enough for you guys to help, but I thought I'd give it a try.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I've seen this question come up from time to time, and the opinions seem to be evenly divided on both sides of the answer. I don't know technically if it's true, but it's my opinion that for all practical purposes you won't see a difference putting the DC 1 floor above the shop. Now, if you were going to put on top of a 40' tower it would be a different story. But the 6-8' you might add will make no difference (again, IMHO).


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sorry, I didn't read the preceding post on dust collector noise before I posted. There was good info in that thread.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

I also forgot to mention that the ceiling is 10ft high.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*2 things will improve your DC*

Replace the stock cloth filter bag with a cannister type pleated filter and don't use ribbed hose for anything except for coupling machines to the main run. Run a large 6" PVC sewer and drain or metal ducting for as much main line as you can. Smooth is good, ribbed not so much. 
Other modifications are on line under "Hot Rodding a Harbor Freight DC" like this: http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.0

Aftermarket cyclones are available online also E Bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Sep...H_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ef67a7a8b&afsrc=1

Another radical mod here: http://www.tablesaw.com/table-saws/hot-rodding-a-harbor-freight-dc-3-cory-to-the-rescue/


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

Nice shop !


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. I definitely going to look into the modifications that you suggested Bill. The canister filter is first on my list. I'm wondering if I might gain a little height clearance with the canister filter. Unless I remove the casters, I'm not going to have clearance the way it sits now. 

Thank Scott, it has taken me 40 years to scrimp and save enough to build my garage, and supply it with tools. I am looking forward to enjoying a great hobby once I get going.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Whether the duct goes up the wall and back down to the machines, or down through the ceiling and down to the machines, well I would think going up and down would mean more bends, meaning more restriction to airflow... However...

#1. As was mentioned already, keep your flex line runs as short as physically possible. Every bump slows the air down.
#2. Run as large of a duct as your system can support. The HF 2HP DC will support a 6" duct, it's not ideal, but a LOT of guys do it... I personally have mine ducted 5", to a wye, and I run 2 4" runs to my tools. 
#3. Keep your runs as straight as physically possible. Every single turn slows the air down.
#4. IF you have to make a turn, make it as wide as possible, use either LONG radius 90s, or a pair of 45s and a short jumper of line between. Long turns slow the air down far less than tight turns.
#5. Lose the stock 5 micron bag and replace it with a 1 micron or better canister filter. It allows the DC to breathe better and move more air, it also lets it filter better.

Dust collection has a couple of critical factors that are related, static pressure, CFM, and filtration. CFM is basically air speed, the faster the air moves through the system, the more efficiently it will work at keeping material suspended until you want it dropped. Anything in the system that will slow the air down is a bad thing.

Likewise, filtration gets clogged very quickly without some sort of separation. The link above to Hot Rodding a Harbor Freight DC shows a very effective and easy to build separator that requires no extra space... Well worth the time and effort... A separator keeps your filter cleaner, longer, and thus keeps the air flowing longer...

As far as the height thing. I didn't measure it, but yes, your DC does end up quite a bit shorter with a canister filter installed than with the bag...


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

I know the feeling JG, I had been been without a decent shop for almost the same amount of time until last year.
Last spring I started construction on mine (30x50x12).
Like you I am in the final stages of getting mine together. The DC system is the last major component but little things will be ongoing forever. 
I had used the HF 2 HP dust collector for many years with a cyclone separator and had no problems. I did upgrade to the grizzly 3 HP because the new Unisaw just needed more cfm's. I ran 6" duct throughout the shop and reduced it at each piece of equipment the only flex I'm using so far is at the planer and router station, everything else is hard piped in.
My system is almost complete but still evolving, I already have a few changes I will be making.

I got my cyclone on ebay for 200.00 (same guy is still selling them there). Once I finish the mods I have planned the entire system will have a foot print of a little less than 2 square feet.


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

I've finally gotten a few more Pics uploaded.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks db, could you tell me what type and where to purchase 5" pipe? I think I want to use 5" throughout the whole system?

Scott, great shop and huge too. That is exactly what I want my DC system to look like, however, I will have to modify where I place my machines. I have my drill press in the old garage (10' x 22') and the doorway into the house is smack in the middle of the garage, which makes placing machines in there very tricky. Plus the fact that I only have 2 electric outlets, one on each end of the garage. 

I built a miter station stand which houses a Rigid shop vac inside the cabinet, so that will be out of the mix. I was going to use a shop vac for router and drill press , but after seeing all your down pipes, i may just go that route and use the DC for them as well as a floor sweep.

I'm still confused a little about separators, Thien baffle, Thien Top Hat, cyclone, vortex, dust deputy, plus the Thien builds look complicated to me. Maybe because of the overload of information and videos. 

I think that if I had just a regular plan with dimensions, I would be able to build it, but looking at pictures and videos actually confuses me a little. I haven't been able to find just a plan.


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

JG, I have not tried any of the other type separators. The cyclone I have works great and I will be reducing the footprint of it even more.

Eventually I will disassembling the DC and mounting the blower directly on top of the cyclone. I will be making a duct box for the filters to mount on and that assembly will connect directly to the blower discharge. That will will put the filters a little over 7' off the floor freeing up more floor space.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Scot, what did you use to attach the pipe to the ceiling and the wall. And it looks like you used both metal and black plastic pipe?
Thanks


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

I made my own brackets out of 1/4" plywood and 1-1/4"x 1-1/4" pine.
All of my ducting is steel. I used black stove pipe for the drop down to the table saw because it is a much heavier gauge and it is in a location where it could get bumped more. I did do one of the work station drops (where the planer is) with stove pipe also just because I had that extra piece.
All of the rest is snap lock ducting from Lowe's and Home Depot.

Here is a pic of one of the brackets, and JB the shop dog.


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

oops


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 4, 2012)

Beautiful shop. I'm afraid you are trying to do too much with too little and will find the DC to be too small for your application. Pipe is better than flex and short runs will be necessary. Get a Dylos air monitor and also see how much dust accumulates on stuff. watch for a used 3hp-14" cyclone as that is the long term solution. I started as you did with a 2hp bagger and now run a 7.5hp cyclone. You won't need that but old machines in particular need lots of cfm to compensate for poor internal dust channeling. Dave


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Scot, JB is a cool shop dog. I am going to mount my ductwork using your method, thanks.

Thanks Dave, a larger DC is in my future, as well as an air moniter. For now, I need to find the time and the funds to get this Harbor Freight DC up and running. I got it put together, then had to take the bags and bag supports off to get it up above the garage. I have folding stairs for access and a 2' x 4' trap door type opening to get large items up there. I haven't even had time to plug the thing in yet to see if it runs. I average 60 hrs a week at work so finding shop time is tuff. The honey-do list is always getting longer too.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Scot H said:


> I've finally gotten a few more Pics uploaded.


If you turned that dual bagger around, you could eliminate at least 2 of those 90 degree bends... Nice use of the metal duct, I am just a bit leery of the short radius bends you used... Air speed robbers..


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

jg2259 said:


> Thanks db, could you tell me what type and where to purchase 5" pipe? I think I want to use 5" throughout the whole system?
> 
> Scott, great shop and huge too. That is exactly what I want my DC system to look like, however, I will have to modify where I place my machines. I have my drill press in the old garage (10' x 22') and the doorway into the house is smack in the middle of the garage, which makes placing machines in there very tricky. Plus the fact that I only have 2 electric outlets, one on each end of the garage.
> 
> ...



I used the 5" duct from Home Depot for the short piece that goes to my wye, and then I branch off to 2 4" runs using S&D PVC.

IF I had the $$, which that issue is improving although slowly, I would go with the 5" duct, and fittings from Kencraft (not sure if it was one or two n's in the name). So far what I have hooked up gets cleaned up nicely. Mind you, my shop is small, 18x20' with a 9' ceiling at the low part of my sloped floor. 8'6" at the short end. 

As far as separators go, a Thien is pretty simple. It's just a disk, with an outside diameter that is larger for 120 degrees than the rest of the disk. The larger diameter is meant to be sized such that if it were a full disk that size, it would barely clear the inside of whatever vessel it is in. The simplest way to implement a Thien baffle is to install it in the inlet ring of your DC. The Jet Vortex works on a similar principle, but from reports, not quite as efficiently, it is basically a wok turned upside down and attached to the inlet ring.

From there the Thien designs get complex because people make them so. The trash can separator first, just a disk sized up to seal the top of a trash can, with an inlet in either one side of the disk, or the side of the vessel itself, and an outlet in the exact center of the disk, the baffle hung below it, and oriented to have the incoming air first be over the solid part of the baffle... 

From there the builds get rather complex with top hat separators which basically put all the functional parts of the separator outside of the catch vessel. I am personally not a fan of the top hat, not because they are not usually nice builds, but rather they are a LOT more effort than I would think neccesary to get the job done..

The advantage to having a baffle in the inlet ring is that you have no need for an external vessel. The build is very easy, and there is no restriction introduced by the addition of a vessel or the plumbing required to get the air stream in to and out of the separator vessel. The disadvantages are that you still have to empty that (expletive deleted) bag on the bottom of your dust collector, and if you pick anything up heavier than planer shavings, say a small loose knot from a workpiece gets sucked up, it can be noisy when it hits the impeller. 

The Dust Deputy is a pre built cyclone add on, which works similarly to a Thien, however I believe it is only sized for a 4" port. And they are kind of big.

The Rockler Dust Right Vortex, along with other commercial dust separator lids lack a baffle, which means that once the vessel starts to fill more than about 1/3 of the way, they start pulling material from the vessel and pass it on to the filter, which is exactly why Phil Thien designed his baffle. Simply put, most commercial trash can separators aren't worth it as far as separation is concerned. I believe Lee Valley has one with a center output that might be okay to put a Thien baffle onto, but then again, you COULD use a trash can lid cut up with the pieces mounted as well...

I could be wrong in my accounting here, but by my way of thinking effectiveness wise I would rate the various options thusly... Mind you this is MY opinion, but it is based on a LOT of reading and research on the subject of dust collection / separation, particularly the writings of Bill Pentz, and Phil Thien...

#1. True full blown 2+ HP cyclone system with 6" or better ductwork.
#2. 1.5 to 2 HP single stage DC with Thien baffle.
#3. 1.5 to 2 HP single stage DC with Thien separator / external vessel.
#4. 1.5 to 2 HP single stage DC with Dust Deputy / external vessel (ranked at #4 due to 4" duct size limit, and excess size, both important in a shop, especially a small one).
#5. 1.5 to 2 HP single stage DC with commercial trash can lid separator.
#6. 1.5 to 2 HP single stage DC with no separator at all.
#7. 1 HP single stage DC of any sort.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

DB,
Clearly you have given this a lot of study and thought. I want to be sure I understand as I'm still thinking about my 2HP DC set up. Are you saying that having a Thien baffle in the inlet ring after the impeller is more efficient than having a Thien separator/baffle going through a drum before getting to the impeller? I thought I was starting to understand this but now I'm getting confused. I have been thinking about building something like this: http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=429.0

Should something like this be considered?


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I have no clue how that would work... 

I would think due to the lack of bends etc... that an in the inlet ring Thien would be a good solution if you can tolerate the noise of debris smashing into your impeller...

An implementation more like this...












Shop Dad said:


> DB,
> Clearly you have given this a lot of study and thought. I want to be sure I understand as I'm still thinking about my 2HP DC set up. Are you saying that having a Thien baffle in the inlet ring after the impeller is more efficient than having a Thien separator/baffle going through a drum before getting to the impeller? I thought I was starting to understand this but now I'm getting confused. I have been thinking about building something like this: http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=429.0
> 
> Should something like this be considered?


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thank you, thank you, thank you db,
That is the exact information that I was looking for. Explained so well that even I could understand. The wealth of knowledge and willingness to share that knowledge amazes me.
Db, I am going to go with your recommendation (opinion) of number 2. My Harbor Freight 2hp DC and the Thien Baffle on a metal trash can using 5" ductwork. 
Now that I have had some time to think about it, I'm leaning toward running all my ductwork in the storage space above the shop and just having 5" drops thru the ceiling for each tool. I can run the ductwork along the eaves of that space, as there is not much storage capacity at the low end of the peaked roof. 
Thanks again to everyone for your help.

Jim


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

If you were close by, I could save you some labor... I am about ready to get rid of my 55 gallon Thien separator and go with an internall baffle myself. The reason is that I want the space the drum is in for a larger air compressor. My current 8 gallon compressor stows underneath the shelf the DC is stood up on. I haven't seen any decent, affordable 35-30 gallon horizontal tank compressors out there, but the places I know to look are fairly limited. The best one I have seen in my price range is the Craftsman Professional #00916475000 25 gallon. And the reviews on it are pretty hit or miss... The next option is an Ingersoll Rand for nearly a grand which I am NOT going to do...


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

No db, $1000, i think is too much. Id go with the craftsman for a compressor


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*other sources*

http://www.grizzly.com/products/3-2-HP-60-Gallon-Cast-Iron-Compressor/G5396

http://www.wttool.com/index/page/pr...e/Garage+Mate+Portable+Electrical+Compressors


Amazon.com: Industrial Air ILA3606056 60-Gallon Belt Driven Vertical Air Compressor with Twin Cylinder: Home Improvement


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

dbhost said:


> I have no clue how that would work...
> 
> I would think due to the lack of bends etc... that an in the inlet ring Thien would be a good solution if you can tolerate the noise of debris smashing into your impeller...
> 
> An implementation more like this...



I thought you had done that years ago db...NO?

From: Other modifications are on line under "Hot Rodding a Harbor Freight DC" like this: http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.0


* dbhost *

Re: Adding a Thien Baffle to a Harbor Freight DC

« *Reply #1 on:* March 30, 2009, 04:06:18 PM »

"For what it's worth, I am considering this modification myself. I have nearly finished a trash can separator, but floor space in my shop is screaming at me since I have BOTH a DC and a shop vac with a Thien trash can cyclone... "


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> I thought you had done that years ago db...NO?
> 
> From: Other modifications are on line under "Hot Rodding a Harbor Freight DC" like this: http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.0
> 
> ...


Yes, I did initially have a baffle in my inlet ring. I took it out after the first hunk of walnut made its way past my Shark Guard along the ducting and into the impeller. It just about scared the shorts off of me! Talk about LOUD... 

If I were more ambitous, I would build a frame to side spin the impeller housing so that the impeller shoots straight into the separator ring, and build a 30 gallon Thien separator / side inlet immediately below that... 

I solved the space issue for the new compressor, so I probably won't be losing my 55 gallon drum separator any time soon. And to top it off I have an opportunity to build a proper miter saw / mortiser bench that will give me plenty of room for the big 12" slider, my cheapie HF mortiser, and still provide ample storage for my compressor. And to paraphrase Martha Stewart... It's a good thing... I have to empty the 55 gallon a bit much. Taking 25 gallons of capacity away would be a real pain in the tail...

The post you quoted was right before I found a 55 gallon drum. I was working with a 30 gallon galvanized trash can. I went with the internal baffle after I discovered my trash can had only spot welded seams, so even with silicone sealant, it would suck in enough to leak REALLY badly.

The inlet ring separator works great, but again, things tend to bash into the impeller and are prone to causing cardiac issues... Not to mention long stringy planer shavings tend to get caught up unless you use a pre separator... 

I have a friend that likes metal working. I might talk him into welding up a frame of sorts such that I can support my HF DC, side spin the impeller housing, and use the 55 gallon drum directly underneath the impeller... I know that would improve my air flow, and maximize my floor space...


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> http://www.wttool.com/index/page/pr...e/Garage+Mate+Portable+Electrical+Compressors


Lowes has that IR GarageMate compressor for $499


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

wericha said:


> Lowes has that IR GarageMate compressor for $499


Not near me...

I ended up with the Central Pneumaitc 29 gallon. And I know there are HF haters out there, but I have what, a month on this compressor now. Not any way to tell long term durability, but it REALLY is working well now. Plenty of air, no funny noises, fit and finish is first rate... This is in an entirely different category from the little 8 gallon CP I have. Not quite an Ingersoll Rand, but a MUCH better compressor compared to the Craftsman or Husky I looked at...

It's going to get a good workout tonight with my spray gun and the living room ceiling.... LOML might want to take the cat into the bedroom for a while unless she wants a Glidden Ceiling White cat...


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