# can i convert a plane into a scrub plane



## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm wondering if I can change one of my 5 into a scrub plane


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

MasterSplinter said:


> I'm wondering if I can change one of my 5 into a scrub plane


Should be possible. Likely want a thicker blade, no chip breaker, grind a curve on this, open the mouth of the plane to accomodate.

I have only read this, not yet attempted. I think other replies may provide more details.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Should be possible. Likely want a thicker blade, no chip breaker, grind a curve on this, open the mouth of the plane to accomodate.
> 
> I have only read this, not yet attempted. I think other replies may provide more details.


+1 I've been planning to do that for a while, but I don't have a spare plane yet. No other details other than I think it is about an 8" radius for the blade.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

What you would have is a fore plane. You need not lose the chip breaker. 

Grind a heavy camber on the blade, slide the frog back for an open mouth and go after it. I have done this and do use a jack plane in the manner quite frequently. It doesn't need to be anything special of an iron, in fact I dropped a "buck brothers" iron is with good results as long as it has a decent camber.

And for more on the fore plane read the Moxon Article here -
www.creoleproject.blogspot.com


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

Great. Should i use a smaller plane or will a 5 be fine


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I wouldn't go any smaller than a 5 - a 6 works too but a bit too much to wield for the vigorous work of a fore plane.

If you have a jack sized transition or wooden plane that's even better because the light weight is less tiring.


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

Great. I do have a wood plane i could use.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

MasterSplinter said:


> Great. I do have a wood plane i could use.


Good deal, be prepared to open the mouth up with a chisel or float.


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

firemedic said:


> Good deal, be prepared to open the mouth up with a chisel or float.


 
How much will i have to open it?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

MasterSplinter said:


> How much will i have to open it?


Depends on what you start with. Try it as is then open it up until you can take curls tue thickness of a nickel without the mouth clogging... And be sure it the mouth clogging not the throat :smile: before you continue to open it up.

As for grinding the camber a belt sander works great.

Good luck


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

heres a youtube video of a guy making a scrub plane from a cheap hf plane


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm not going to comment on the video.

Just to reduce confusion-
A scrub plane is a specific plane. It's designed with one purpose and for this reason it's is designed differently.

A modern fore plane differs from a bench plane only in the grind of the iron.

So despite being similar in use, a fore plane is not a scrub plane and a scrub plane is not a Fore plane. Traditionaly the French and English cultures employed Fore planes where as the Germanic and Dutch cultures utilized Scrub planes.


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## texasfl0od (Nov 28, 2012)

good evening to you all ! i have a veritas scrub plane that i really love - it is a workhorse for removing wood but after watching an episode of the woodwright shop i took a dunlap #5 jack plane and put an 8" radius on the blade and it works perfectly it is about 1/2" wider than the veritas scrub plane so i have uses for both of them. i highly recomend turning a #5 jack plane into a scrub plane if you have an extra ( and it is quite a bit cheaper than the veritas)!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

What is the plane iron angle for a for plane? I currently have all my irons at 29 degrees.

I have a transitional plane that is just the right length for a for plane. I also have a Stanley #5 that would probably be a good candidate.

I know that the iron should be curved, with a radius of about 8" or so.

But I can't fine the iron's bevel angle for sure ... as far as I can tell, it should be in the 45-50 degree range?

Also, is it bevel up or bevel down?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> What is the plane iron angle for a for plane? I currently have all my irons at 29 degrees.
> 
> I have a transitional plane that is just the right length for a for plane. I also have a Stanley #5 that would probably be a good candidate.
> 
> ...


I like to use Lee Valley's site for such information. Their scrub plane looks very similar to the original Stanley No 40.

This is what Lee Valley says about sharpening their blade. Go to this link then click on the "Instr" 

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=51871&cat=1,41182,48944

35 deg angle, bevel down and 3in radius.


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## texasfl0od (Nov 28, 2012)

good afternoon to you all . according to chris schwarz, who has written many books on hand planes and hand tools in general along with putting on seminars through lie nielson , 25 degrees is a general purpose angle for hand planes as well as all hand tools , some require more angle but to start with, try 25 degrees and see if that feels right to you . much about hand planes is feel . i would think that a transitional jack plane or a metal jack plane would work well for a scrub plane . the dunlap #5 that i turned into a scrub plane did not require any opening of the mouth - it removes quite a bit of wood and does not "foul" the mouth . the old saying "foul mouth" supposedly came from hand planes becoming bogged down or stopped up with shavings . there is a very good episode of the woodwright shop with roy underhill and guest chris schwarz about the jack plane and about turning a jack plane into a scrub plane as well as the techniques for using a scrub plane !


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> But I can't fine the iron's bevel angle for sure ... as far as I can tell, it should be in the 45-50 degree range?
> 
> Also, is it bevel up or bevel down?


You are confusing bedding angle with bevel angle. The bedding angle on most Stanley bench planes is 45 deg. 

Bevel up planes are always low angle planes. Until you hit approx 30 deg it just won't work well because the combined shearing angle is too high.

an for the more recent comments, I'll say it again -



firemedic said:


> [...]So despite being similar in use, a fore plane is not a scrub plane and a scrub plane is not a Fore plane. Traditionaly the French and English cultures employed Fore planes where as the Germanic and Dutch cultures utilized Scrub planes.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

OK, so to turn a transitional plane into a fore plane, the only changes are that the mouth might need to be opened up (it might already be large enough), and the iron is still bevel down with bevel around 30, and the blade is curve with a radius somewhere between 3" and 10".

Jean, approximately what radius do you use? Intuitively a 3" radius seems like there would be an awfully steep curve, so something more in the 6-8" range?


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> OK, so to turn a transitional plane into a fore plane, the only changes are that the mouth might need to be opened up (it might already be large enough), and the iron is still bevel down with bevel around 30, and the blade is curve with a radius somewhere between 3" and 10".
> 
> Jean, approximately what radius do you use? Intuitively a 3" radius seems like there would be an awfully steep curve, so something more in the 6-8" range?


Chris,

My fore plane is a Columbus Tool transitional plane of "Jack Plane" size. I ground the blade to a 3" radius and find that it takes a nice aggressive cut. I can remove up to an eighth of an inch of white oak at a pass. It's great for thickness reduction. I suspect that the greater radius, the less aggressive. Since this plane is used before others, the "scooped" surface is removed very quickly.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wrangler said:


> Chris,
> 
> My fore plane is a Columbus Tool transitional plane of "Jack Plane" size. I ground the blade to a 3" radius and find that it takes a nice aggressive cut. I can remove up to an eighth of an inch of white oak at a pass. It's great for thickness reduction. I suspect that the greater radius, the less aggressive. Since this plane is used before others, the "scooped" surface is removed very quickly.


+1

Just like the V hull of a boat cuts through the water with less drag than a flat bottom the point of the heavy camber is to reduce drag and remove much heavier curls across the grain. 3" is appropriate for a fore plane while 8"-9" is more appropriate for a standard duty jack plane. 

Set a compass to 4"-4-1/2" and scribe an arch on a piece of paper then lay your iron next to it. It's not much across a 2" wide iron. I prefer a very light camber on smoothers and only just knock the corners of jointer irons. The only reason for the camber on a smoother is to prevent tracks from the corner of the iron. Similarly the jointer needs a straight bevel and a slight ease on the corners keeps the jointer from leaving more work for the smoother.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Works for me ... thanks Wrangler (sorry, I don't know your real name) and Jean.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I have stopped breaking the corners on my smoother, because any tracks left by the plane are so shallow that they are easily removed with a scraper.

What I forgot to say when talking about my fore plane, is that the 3" radius got into the chip breaker. I also had to clip the corners of it to properly set the iron depth. The iron on that plane is laminated and about 1/4" thick. There is no chatter no matter how deep a cut that I wish to make.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wrangler said:


> What I forgot to say when talking about my fore plane, is that the 3" radius got into the chip breaker. I also had to clip the corners of it to properly set the iron depth. The iron on that plane is laminated and about 1/4" thick. There is no chatter no matter how deep a cut that I wish to make.


Ouch! I just retract the chip breaker enough to clear. Never had any problems resulting from that. A thicker / better supported iron really is better though so it's an interesting thought.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Ouch! I just retract the chip breaker enough to clear. Never had any problems resulting from that. A thicker / better supported iron really is better though so it's an interesting thought.


When I retracted the chip breaker, I couldn't retract the blade enough. It works great the way I have it set up, so no worries.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

since this is all so new to me, and since i am the type of guy who learns best by doing and seeing, and since my new bench is not flat where i edge-glued the 2x4s, i thought, what the heck?

so i decided to try using the transitional plane with the non-rounded blade, going across the grain at about 45* or so, just to see what happens.

i see the edge lines you all are referring to, and what the smoothing plane would be good for. this bench will be flat when i'm done with it! then I will put some lindseed or danish oil on it to seal it.


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

I decided to go with the stubby nubs idea of using a HF plane. Grounded the blade to a camber and honed it up. WOW! Worked great. Effortless. I continued to a 5 i quickly honed it up. The 7. Did not hone it. worked fine. Then 3. Im very happy with how the top of my bench turend out. I did half. My bench is 2 piece top. For my first time using them. It was alot of fun. I will properly hone them to finish the top.

Thank you for everyones help


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

MasterSplinter said:


> I decided to go with the stubby nubs idea of using a HF plane. Grounded the blade to a camber and honed it up. WOW! Worked great. Effortless. I continued to a 5 i quickly honed it up. The 7. Did not hone it. worked fine. Then 3. Im very happy with how the top of my bench turend out. I did half. My bench is 2 piece top. For my first time using them. It was alot of fun. I will properly hone them to finish the top.
> 
> Thank you for everyones help


looks great!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Splinter, which HF plane did you use? According to their web site, they only have 2 planes, in approximately the #3 and the #4 sizes. Did you use one of those, or did they have a larger one that is not on their web site?


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

Chris Curl said:


> Splinter, which HF plane did you use? According to their web site, they only have 2 planes, in approximately the #3 and the #4 sizes. Did you use one of those, or did they have a larger one that is not on their web site?


The exact one in the video. #4 size.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

you will find that if you get into sizing lumber a lot with hand planes, and for the price of good used #5s, and wooden scrubs you'll want a few with different cambers. You'll figure out what to use as you use them.

Here is one of my go to jacks (not really a jack at all) https://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2012/05/04/a-new-604-jack/


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

Don could we see the bottom and blade. Also which Stanley is that?


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

> Don could we see the bottom and blade. Also which Stanley is that?


Follow the link, it shows the blade. The bottom is not corrugated, its a Bedrock 604.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Nice going, Don


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