# woodworking without measuring ....



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Let's say you want to return to a given fence setting or dimension for ripping a series of workpieces or similar cuts, some now, maybe some later.....

Here's a tip on how to reset the fence in exactly the same location every time:

You need a specific dimension between the blade and fence for a rip. Set up the fence to get close, plus an little extra. Make a 12" to 16" test piece and continue making rips, shaving off small amounts until it's exactly the width you want. Now that's your "gauge block" and you can make any other cuts and always come back to that width without measuring. Just place the block on the saw, and slide the block and fence over until it just barely touches the teeth.... no measuring required.  Dont forget to label it and it's orientation on the table...green side up sorta thing.:laughing:


----------



## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I have several of those blocks ranging from 1 1/2" to 3 1/2". Wroks for me also.


----------



## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I have a digital fence. +/- .005"

The old school way works nice too.


----------



## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

I got lucky...

and found a tape measure that reads the same every time. :sailor:


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

mdntrdr said:


> I got lucky...
> 
> and found a tape measure that reads the same every time. :sailor:


+1. :yes: If I need to make a spacer for a repetitive cut that has been made, I just use a scrap that has been cut and mark it. I don't make a dedicated spacer from scratch. I trust my tape measures and the saw fence rail measure for measured cuts. IMO, using a loose block as a spacer could produce a different fence setting depending on how much the blade scuffs the edge to set the fence. 


















.


----------



## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Whether you use a spacer or a tape it is a matter of getting a "feel" for the saw and the fence. Spacers are very common in many industries besides woodworking , and very accurate if one takes the time to learn how to use them.
The main advantage is that they are a constant dimension, unlike many rulers and tape measures.
Any method should be checked for accuracy with a test cut before making the final cut.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*no fair ...*



mdntrdr said:


> I got lucky...
> 
> and found a* tape measure* that reads the same every time. :sailor:



That's *measuring.*..unless I'm missin' somethin'.:blink:

You can use the same technique for dados, Raise the blades and just roll the block onto the blades and lower until you feel no resistance.


----------



## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

mdntrdr said:


> I got lucky...
> 
> and found a tape measure that reads the same every time. :sailor:


Most tapes and rulers read the same every time, it is often a matter of if they read the same as other ones.


----------



## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Finding one that reads the same when doing inside and outside dimensions is what they are referring to I believe.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*a drill bit makes a gauge*

You can use a fractional size drill bit to set the fence for specif dimensions without using measuring tape.....

You can use the brass height gauges for setting your router bit on the plunge base which also work for setting the fence on the tablesaw.

Obviously, if you have a scrap of the correct size material which you can save and use as a gauge block that's great. You may not want too many scraps, but for a project that's "in the works" it won't hurt to hang onto it until completion. If you know you are going to make another complete project like a quilt rack where the mortises are all different lengths and heights from the bottom a sample/extra would make sense to make and save for later. 

These tips are about making accurate repetitive cuts where you want to make another of the same piece or duplicate one. 

I also trust my tablesaws's measuring tape for accuracy. I set the hairline indicator to the correct dimension after measuring a cut piece as accurately as possible with a steel rule. The is no substitute for measuring, but there are short cuts you can use also. :yes:


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Leo G said:


> Finding one that reads the same when doing inside and outside dimensions is what they are referring to I believe.


It's best to check the tape for its accuracy and the hook end is functional and operating correctly. You can check your tapes against each other, but try to use the same tape throughout the project.


















.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it ain't about tape measures*



cabinetman said:


> It's best to check the tape for its accuracy and the hook end is functional and operating correctly. You can check your tapes against each other, but try to use the same tape throughout the project.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Read the title of the thread...no measuring. :no:


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Read the title of the thread...no measuring. :no:


I did read the title, and I'm guessing others did too...others brought it up if you didn't notice...



mdntrdr said:


> I got lucky...
> 
> and found a tape measure that reads the same every time. :sailor:


Believe or not, some believe in tape measures. You didn't discuss what your 'gauge block' was, and if it's wood, and the area is humid/dry/humid, like it is here in Florida, that gauge block will not be the same size all the time, and make for a very poor measuring shortcut. It's size could vary daily. I haven't had a tape measure yet that was affected by temperature or humidity.


















.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It ain't about tape measures ...again*

Don't hijack my threads with irrelevant comments, regardless of what others may have done.... I called him out also. Offer some useful tips without measuring or get off my thread.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Don't hijack my threads with irrelevant comments, regardless of what others may have done.... I called him out also. Offer some useful tips without measuring or get off my thread.


I did offer a useful tip about how unstable a wood block can be.:yes:


















.


----------



## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> I did read the title, and I'm guessing others did too...others brought it up if you didn't notice...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So if that measuring gauge block and the material to be cut are both in the same climatic conditions the material will be cut to the required size, if you measure the distance the width of the material being cut will vary according to the weather it seems.

It is really a shame that when someone offers a tip people here can't just say thanks and move on without all this nonsense.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*yeah right, unstable*



cabinetman said:


> I did offer a useful tip about how unstable a wood block can be.:yes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Let's just not use wood because it's unstable. :blink: That was useful, NOT.:no:


----------



## guglipm63 (Feb 27, 2013)

FrankC said:


> So if that measuring gauge block and the material to be cut are both in the same climatic conditions the material will be cut to the required size, if you measure the distance the width of the material being cut will vary according to the weather it seems. It is really a shame that when someone offers a tip people here can't just say thanks and move on without all this nonsense.


I have to agree. Put the egos away. A lot of opinions here both ways valid. I have a tape on my table saw and use it most of the time. Some don't have a fixed tape to their saws and for them this may be a good quick way to accomplish the task of duplicating a piece. I have used this method in the past too. Let's work together, and help each other make things better


----------



## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*I Don't Have a LARGE ego...*

....


----------



## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I made my blocks from some left over 3/4" melamine board. I think it won't matter to me if the block changes it's size or not. My stuff isn't that critical.


----------



## Toolman2 (Jun 15, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> Let's say you want to return to a given fence setting or dimension for ripping a series of workpieces or similar cuts, some now, maybe some later.....
> 
> Here's a tip on how to reset the fence in exactly the same location every time:
> 
> You need a specific dimension between the blade and fence for a rip. Set up the fence to get close, plus an little extra. Make a 12" to 16" test piece and continue making rips, shaving off small amounts until it's exactly the width you want. Now that's your "gauge block" and you can make any other cuts and always come back to that width without measuring. Just place the block on the saw, and slide the block and fence over until it just barely touches the teeth.... no measuring required.  Dont forget to label it and it's orientation on the table...green side up sorta thing.:laughing:


That's what I do most of the time because it's easiest for me and I don't want to trust having to measure every time. I usually make guage blocks for each project and then discard them or use them for another project.:thumbsup:


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*equal shelf spacing, no measuring ...almost*

A while back I posted this method of making dados in shelf supports by using a dado in the RAS fence and sliding to down to the desired dimension, inserting a small block and making repetitive passes with "no measuring". :no: Well almost, you do have to determine the initial shelf spacing with just a single measurement. From then on they will all be the same in each and every board.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/shelf-spacing-made-simple-using-ras-47095/

How about some tips for the rest of you woodworkers who would rather not measure to get good, accurate results? :blink:


----------



## shopman (Feb 14, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> I made my blocks from some left over 3/4" melamine board. I think it won't matter to me if the block changes it's size or not. My stuff isn't that critical.




I agree. I dont want to say that my numbers are not critical but if we are worried about the climactic change in a 2" piece of wood then the project your doing would require a more precise tool such as a tape or micrometer. I believe the thread was started to show a useful shortcut for projects where the relative humidity growth or shrinkage in wood is not a major factor and I accept it as a useful suggestion.


----------



## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> A while back I posted this method of making dados in shelf supports by using a dado in the RAS fence and sliding to down to the desired dimension, inserting a small block and making repetitive passes with "no measuring". :no: Well almost, you do have to determine the initial shelf spacing with just a single measurement. From then on they will all be the same in each and every board.
> 
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/shelf-spacing-made-simple-using-ras-47095/
> 
> How about some tips for the rest of you woodworkers who would rather not measure to get good, accurate results? :blink:


I use a two stick method to measure the width of a cabinet that has face frames that are in the way to use a tape or ruler.

I butt a 1X2 up against one side and another against the other side and mark where the second one ends on the first. Remove the sticks and line them up again to the mark to get the inside width.


----------



## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

dumb question, why would you want to work without "measuring"?

Not sure I understand the distinction of measuring with a meter stick vs measuring with a cut to length board... 

less chance of eyeball error in reading the measurement? faster? just a personal challenge?

Ive done it both ways... mostly without measuring just by accident that I need another board of a length I recently cut. But ive never though about storing a bunch of boards of incremental lengths purely for that purpose. Im just curious.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*no, that's not the idea.*

It's just a way to get a desired dimension using a gauge block or stop block without measuring each piece, each time. It was inspired by a post where the OP who ended up pulling the work through the blade leaving the fence at a previous setting without moving the fence and then being able to return to exactly the same setting. So I just thought for an easy method to return to a specific setting while the job was in progress without having to measure or remember a measurement..... use a gauge block. That's it, that's all. No need to save a bunch of specific blocks.... :no:


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Great discussion (mostly) 

Here's a great video that illustrates much of the conversation.

Thanks once again Ken


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)




----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Xzakly what I was gettin' at!*

Great work finding those videos jeff. I also use a transfer method, sometimes paper, or a block of wood with marks like a "story stick".
Here's my transfer bar, kinda like Frank C's idea on steroids? 

One time I needed to make a number of different length studs to a fit a wall. I realized that a tape measure was too difficult to hold on both ends, so a made I sliding, slotted transfer bar that I inserted in the proper location and tightened the thumb screw to maintain it's length. I then transferred that length to the new lumber, made my cutline and I was ready to cut it using my circ saw and a Speed Square. I'll dig it out an post a photo.

The 6 x 6 blocks, photo props, are used to show 2 fixed points and the transfer bar is slid open between them, locked and is then ready to carry to the workpiece for marking and cutting:


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

That's a great idea Bill. I like to use relative dimensioning too.

For some applications it can be just the ticket.


----------



## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

For inside measurements, as in a cabinet, I use my Lufkin folding rule, with the sliding rule. A great tool. Can't imagine buying one of the ones, without the sliding rule.

Before I bought a real planer, that doesn't snipe, I would rip to width, then cut the snipped ends off, (what a waste of wood and time!) and save the cutoff for a gauge block, if a new piece was needed.

Here is a picture of a tool I made for setting the fence.
Haven't used it much, but sure liked the $100 some wood rag paid me for the idea!


----------



## jacko9 (Dec 29, 2012)

I use a story stick made out of stable Honduras Mahogany and make my marks with a razor knife. I use a single stick for one cabinet or dresser being careful to mark what each line is for and what direction to mark from. This kind of beats marking down each measurement and keeping that list where it's handy when you need it.

Jack


----------



## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

I guess this technically is not a non-measuring method to reproduce the same results all the time (or at least a time saver). I have been making a lot of things with box joints latley.. I made a box joint jig that does 1/4 and 1/2 inch box joints. I made another for 3/4. I use a dado set to make the cuts. And as you know..you have to sometime put in shims to make sure it is exact. I simply wrote the dado configuration onto the jig with a sharpie. for example: the 3/4 is 3 chippers, 2 blades, 2 spacers, a .02 and .01 shim.

I do one test cut and it has been foolproof everytime.


----------

