# Dust collector find -- tempest 5hp -- any good?



## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I have been in the market for a dust collector. I found one about 45 minutes from here. The guy has it in storage and could not tell me the model. He said it was a tempest 5hp with the 'filter and everything'. He wants $500 for it. 

Any clue as to the model so I can look up specs? Is it worth it? I have a small 19x20 shop with 8ft ceilings but looking to build a bigger shop in a few years. I will be installing duct work in my current shop. Any tips as to checking the condition of it? I am not sure he will be able to plug it in and start it up since it's in storage. Common sense is telling me to require it started up before I buy. Thoughts? 

Thanks!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that would be this one*

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TEMP1550S.html

For $500.00 it's a steal of a deal...if it works, and really there no reason it shouldn't from just sitting in storage.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks! I knew it would be 240V but I see it's also 3 phase, which I don't have available. I'd have to buy an inverter or other such device, not sure if it's worth it. Thoughts?


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I think at one time the 5 HP models were available in single phase, so it may pay to look. A motor that large might need an RPC, making that a lot less appealing. You might be able to switch the motor for a lot less; it's well worth consideration.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

In the Q&A section on the product page they state all their 5HP models are three phase, but I will contact them and see if they have a 5HP single phase motor I could swap out.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

Even if they didn't have one, you can get one (probably cheaper) from a number of motor vendors. It will probably take a C-face and you'll need the shaft size.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm new to the world of specing motors. I'm going to call him up in a bit and verify it's 3ph and ask for him to find the model. I'd hate to do the work of finding a replacement motor and it's the wrong system, although just briefly looking at prices at Grainger and Global Industrial quickly closes the gap between "great deal" and "okay deal."

I read about replacing motors in 3 vs 1 phase scenarios, and one concern that was brought up is if the motor shaft or mount is custom or otherwise has some unique features.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I replaced the motor on my Oneida, and the hardest part was getting the impeller off the motor shaft. This was not a phase conversion (which means you might also have to replace the switch, no big deal) but the 5 HP Leeson I put on it I got from Clearview Cyclones for (at the time $300. Anyway, the first time I pulled the motor I had to pay a motor shop to remove the impeller. The second time (yes, my life is just full of fun :furious I was able to do it myself. but it's not a very complicated job, one other thing you need to know is the key size, though they are easy to find and fairly standard.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Sounds like fun!

Well, a new development: I gave him a call and he claims it is not 3 phase "because he ran it on 220." I said the website listed it as 5hp 3ph 220V. He's going to go by later today to get the model off it and hopefully I can get a better idea. Maybe we have the wrong DC all together or maybe it was offered as a single phase in an earlier time like you mentioned... or maybe he has the HP wrong. I'd take their 2.5hp or 3.5hp models.

He actually has three. He says they used to have a large shop and ran them for less than a year. Then they moved to a smaller shop and don't need them anymore.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

Sounds like you're on track for a possible deal! Good luck......


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I sure hope so! I am way tired of sweeping up. I know I'll still have to, but not piles and piles of chips... Not to mention the new (to me) 16" planer and 8" jointer I picked up last weekend almost require the use of a dust collector according to their manuals. I'm no stranger to buying things I can't use immediately... I don't even have 240V wired in my shop yet, which the planer & jointer require. Hoping to get started on that next weekend after I finish my current project this weekend.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. It's the 3.5HP model and I'll take it, even at the same price, but I'm sure I might be able to get him down some if he was willing to part with a 5HP model at $500. Either way, it's current $1200 new and that's not including shipping. 

His shop is right down from the storage place and he said he'll bring it over and plug it in so it can be tested. Hoping to go tomorrow, it looks like it's going to rain today.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

That's awesome.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

Sounds good......:thumbsup:


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I picked it up last night! I kept looking at the weather and it cleared up during that 2.5 hour window it'd take to get there, load it up and get back. Of course weather reports are never accurate, and while it was beautiful most of the drive there, it opened up the last 10 minutes to his shop. I brought a tarp just in case so I wasn't overly worried, but I knew how finicky tarps can be if not secured 100% correctly. Thankfully the rain stopped as we were loading it up after I tested it. I secured the tarp and drove home, taking a different route. No rain among the bulk of it, but looking over towards the highway I came in on it was pitch black, so I'm glad I went a different way home. It sprinkled a tiny bit for about 2 minutes near the end of the drive, not enough to matter and the tarp was still magically secured at all ends.

They used a fork lift to get it on the truck. I don't have one of those luxury tools so I unloaded everything I could and was left with the cyclone body, blower and motor assembly. I thought I'd man handle it down from the tailgate to a furniture mover... so that I easily could roll it around until I install it. Got the wheels locked in place and managed to safely move the cyclone from the tailgate to the dolly without damaging my back and more impressively doing it without using the motor for support. Only it did not want to sit on the dolly and not roll around, so I ended up carefully lowering it from there to the ground on some scrap pine.

I did not notice at the time (I need to be more observant!) but the body is actually missing four corner brackets used to mount to the wall. I guess they unbolted the cyclone from the brackets when uninstalling it and forgot to re-attach the brackets. I'm going to give them a call today and see if they can find it... and if not, I'll contact PSI and see if they can't sell me just those parts. I want to buy a remote switch and possibly a muffler from them anyway. I will be likely installing some sort of insulated enclosure around it to help reduce noise.

They have a 7" to 4" reducer on it. Obviously it's better to run 6" mains with 4" drops to the tools right?

Here's a pic. You can make out the filter to the left near the tool boxes.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

If that had the inlet choked to 4", they wasted a lot of money buying that machine. The cyclonic action to spin the dust/chips out needs the air volume to do so. In any case, I would suggest you run at least 6" lines, but all the way to the tools. This would mean changing whatever ports that are 4" to the 6" size. Collecting the finest dust requires maximum air movement, in turn that requires ductwork that will support it. The chips are easier, if you're only out to get them the 4" will be fine. Congrats on the purchase, I'm sure it will serve you well. BTW, you may want to make the first 4-5 feet or so of duct 7", to match the inlet. At least that was what Oneida stressed to me, mine also has a 7" inlet. So I ran about 6' of 7" HVAC snaplock, and then transitioned it to 6" PVC for the balance of the system.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I thought it was odd that they had it reduced to 4" too. That was something I actually asked about (yes, I asked about the reducer and not the important mounting brackets) and he said they just ran 4" duct. They had three of these guys.

I never considered 6" to the tool. There's no "changing" the ports on my bandsaw -- they're built into the enclosure. The shroud on my planer and jointer have 4" ports, but they're removable and Jet/Grizzly might sell ones with a 6". If not, and with my bandsaw, I'd be stuck using a 6" to 4" reducer at the tool, which seems like it won't add much performance vs. running 4" from the tool up 4-6ft to the 6" main? My router cabinet has a 4" hole in the body with the router, but could be enlarged to 6" I suppose as I haven't built the insides yet.

The miter and table saws do not have dust collection built in (except for the standard small 2" port on the miter saw that only catches 30% of the dust), so I will be doing something custom with them and could run 6" all the way.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

The bandsaw isn't huge producer of dust, it's one tool where I have a 4" connection (mine started with a 2.5" port), but for the jointer, you could get a 6" HVAC "starter collar", screw it to a peice of 1/4" ply and fasten it to the jointer body (that's what I did on my Jet 8") Same with the planer, you might get an HVAC 6" boot of some kind that can be used. My RT has a 6" line to the body, with a 4" line to the fence. Same with the TS, 6" to the cabinet and 4" overblade pick up. I don't have the miter saw in my shop anymore, but when I did I couldn't come up with anything that worked to my satisfaction. MY drum sander hood couldn't be modified (A Delta 18/36) so I took it off and completely replaced it with a shop built one that has a 6" HVAC collar on it.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Not bad ideas. I'm starting to price out ducting. I was originally planning on using metal snap lock, but think I can get 6" PVC pipe & fittings from a local plumbing supply cheaper. I will definitely look into running 7" out the inlet and reducing from there, depending on where I put it it would be a simple addition. 

I've read that the 6" plastic blast gates from Clear Vue are great because they sit on the outside of the pipe and don't restrict air flow. Any thoughts on that? Where did you get your flex hose?

I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road... for now I am focusing on finishing my current project and then running electrical throughout my shop. At that point I can look at mounting the DC and running the duct work. I hope to be at that point late October... the long 4 day weekend away on the 25th doesn't seem as enticing now! :laughing:

BTW, the guy found the mounting brackets and I'll be getting them from him today. I'll also ask about the missing blast gate at the bottom of the filter stack. Although I'm not as worried about that as I'm sure I can fabricate something.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I've not seen the CV gates first hand, but have read the same thing. I built mine (similar to this, my slide gates are plywood) and I have one of the black plastic ones on my system, but I don't care for those at all. I've bought 6" flex at a couple of places, but the last piece came from Woodworker's supply (clear, wire wound). But you can get it from Penn State, Griz, and other places.When you price out your ducting, you might find the biggest cost is the fittings, price them along with the straight stuff.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I don't have experience with any blast gates aside from opening one for the guy I bought the planer & jointer from so I'll do some more research and consider making my own.

I most likely will end up building an enclosure for the unit to help with the sound. Initially I thought I would need to have the filter stack on the outside of the unit so that the return air would make it back into the shop. However, after seeing a bunch of photos of closets it doesn't look like people do this. I am actually tempted to mount this on my exterior wall, build an enclosure, punch through the ceiling drywall, and cut in a hole in the soffit on the other side of the wall and pipe the output of the blower to the outside. That would be way easier to patch up than a 6" hole in block. I'm in Florida and don't plan on heating or cooling my current shop. But if I didn't pipe it outside, could I enclose the entire unit including the filter stack within an insulated closet? I'm guessing I would need some sort of way for the air to travel back into the shop otherwise the pressure in the closet would just continue to rise. If I framed in a solid core door, would the crack at the bottom between it and the floor be sufficient?


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

If you enclose it you will need a lot more area than the crack at the bottom of the door. You won't damage any thing like that, but you might hinder air flow through the cyclone (backpressure), so arrange enough area (put a furnace filter in an opening if you want) to allow the air back in. Piping it outside might be the best choice for you. I would do that if I didn't heat in the winter...and it may improve the performance of the unit (or mount the whole thing outside, if you have a way to shelter it). A lot of guys enclose these to help with noise, but to me the DC is running when other tools are also running, so I have to wear hearing protection anyway. So I haven't quite moved to the enclosure thinking yet. Remember when you enclose it, design it so you can get to the dust can and filters for some routine upkeep. You may also blow a motor capacitor someday, so you want access to that (the bumps on the motor) to change them out.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks. I am leaning towards exhausting outside, but will keep the filters in storage in case I need to stop exhausting outside and revert back to the filters at some point. I'll install some sort of vent on the soffit to keep critters out, which will restrict the airflow some but I imagine not nearly as much as the filters. My only concern with exhausting outside is the potential dust covering the nearby grass and plants, but I'd guess minimal dust makes it that far if the cyclone is doing its job? Everyone here lives on 1+ acre, but unfortunately both my and my neighbor's house favor the same side of the property and his house is maybe 75ft away from where I'd be venting it.

I was going to even put this part of the planning process off until after I finished the electrical work I want to do, but if I'm enclosing it I want to make sure I get a circuit in where the enclosure will be. In decided that, I have to find out where to put the cyclone of course. The instructions state that the orientation of the intake and outtake can be changed by mounting the blower housing to the cyclone body in the direction you want to best fit your ductwork. If I want to change it now, which it looks like I might need to, I'll have to dismantle it and break an "adhesive foam" seal between the cylinder and the cone. Do you think I'll still get an airtight seal if I clean off the old seal and use something like this adhesive foam tape?
Amazon.com: M-D Building Products 2113 Low Density Foam Tape, 1/2-by-3/4-Inch by 17 Feet, Gray: Home Improvement


The seal is shown on page 4, labeled "G":
http://www.pennstateind.com/library/TEMPEST-Sv4.pdf

I did stop by and pick up the brackets. He had them mounted to a solid 2x4 frame which he gave to me. That might come useful in mounting it here.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

The assembly on the body of that DC is almost exactly like my Oneida. I've had it apart several times (including once to move to another house) and the factory foam tends to get damaged when you take it apart, but you may luck out and find it intact. In any case, the seal on mine is EDPM....kinda tough to find. I don't think the foam you linked would be good because it's open cell, but if you can find some that's "closed cell" it should work. But so will silicone, which is what I have on mine now. You might be able to get the replacement gasket from PSI as well. But wait and see if the old one is still good after you separate the blower.. I don't think you'll have a problem with dust settling anywhere outside, unless you run it as much as a commercial shop would. Only the very finest dust, and not all of it, will get through the discharge and be picked up by any light breeze that happens to be blowing. One exception to this would be if you happen to let the dust bin get full, then it will look like it's snowing outside....that would probably be noticed in Florida :laughing:.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks. I'm pretty sold on venting it outside at this point. I will be planning its location and duct work hopefully between this weekend and next week as I need it to know where to run the electrical. I'm sure I'll post the plan for feedback and suggestions. Unfortunately I have two new to me tools that I have not had a chance to use -- the planer and jointer I mentioned earlier. I hope I choose a decent place for them as I'd hate to have to reconfigure my duct work so early. I realize shop organization (and therefore duct work) is an ongoing evolution but I'd like to at least get a project or two out of it before moving things around :laughing:

One thing I am wondering about. I work in a two car garage that thankfully I have dedicated use of. With the garage door opened it blocks about 1/3 - 2/5ths of the ceiling. Any ideas on running ducting to tools underneath the garage door when it's opened? There's enough room to run ducting on either side of the door to get to the tools along the side of the garage, but I'm not sure how I could get ducting out to the middle of that area and still support it outside of some sort of post anchored to the floor.

As of right now it's not much of a concern because that area doesn't have any tools in it, but I might move some there or buy a new toy that needs to fit there. I kind of like that open area for assembly and finishing, but could see myself building a proper workbench/assembly table combination to fit there and would want to run a DC line to it for hand sanders.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I don't have any ideas for getting to the area under the door. As much as you want to avoid using flex hose, there are times when you have no choice. So you lay have to do as you said, and come down the side of the door, at that point connect flex and run it to the center of the area. You may find the DC is the wrong tool for a hadn held sander, t goes back to choking down the pipe and the restricted air flow that results. Try it and see if your satisfied, but I use shop vac on all the hand held stuff, they are the exact opposite of a DC. A dc moves huge volumes of air at low static pressures (resistance to air flow). A vac moves low volumes of air, but at much higher static pressures.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Okay, so I have what I believe is a good layout for both my tools and my duct work. I will try to post a diagram tomorrow, but I can't tonight.

I started to price it out. I'm looking at several avenues including Oneida, PSI and a local plumbing supply. The first two I'm looking at simple 26ga snap lock, S&D PVC at my plumbing supply. I checked out Lowes & HD, but they only have the thin 28ga stuff and don't carry 6" S&D. I've read 28ga stuff could possibly collapse on itself when the DC is on because it is too thin. Thoughts?

Rough estimate based off my layout is between $600-$750 without blast gates and shipping. Jeebus. Any ideas on where I might find this stuff cheaper? I'm going to see if I can't find any cheaper local HVAC supply places.

Unfortunately I have a number of obstacles in my garage that make it so there are only a few places I could run ducting. Four large light fixtures, attic opening, garage opener, and garage door. This makes the runs longer with more fittings than if I could make straight shots.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

6" thinwall PVC can be extremely hard to find, some of the regional lumber yards around me (one called Carter's) and firms specializing in drain piping. Menard's carries 3034 (useable, but not as light or cheap) but they are regional as well. If there is a Hughes Supply nearby they might have it. Kencraft sells galvenized fittings that are a little cheaper, so you can compare their prices. If you wind up with some 6" PVC straight, check McMaster Carr pricing on the fittings. They even have the long sweep els, and tier shipping (seems to me) to be the actual cost, not some trumped up amount.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I'll check out Kencraft and I do happen to have a Hughes right here so I'll give them a call.

Here is the the diagram I came up with. The drill press, router table, and band saw will have mobile bases and can be pulled out a bit to clear the rest of the tools in case I need to run longer boards on them. The SCMS counter will be built to be the same height as the band saw table, which is higher than the router table, so it's unlikely I'd need to move those out of the way for longer pieces of board. It will also be built to where the fence is a little past the opening for the garage door so I have infinite length for boards there.

Either the drop for the DP or the drop for the band saw will have to split for the router table. Most likely the drop for the DP because I will only have a simple hose for the DP that I clamp to the table when I'm batching out a lot of holes or something. The band saw will already have to split into two, same for the router table, so best to put it on the DP side I think.

Comments and thoughts on tool and duct layout are welcome. There really is only a few combinations that the duct work can be run because of the lights, garage door, and attic opening.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I think that looks fine. When you plan out your fittings, the one 90º turn you have would be a little more gentle with either a long sweep 90, or at least 2 -45's with a short length of straight between them. I'm not sure it's significant, but it won't hurt, and probably will not cost more to do it that way. Anyway, good luck with your search. One other thing, the PVC has several nicknames, so to avoid confusion what you really want (if you go PVC) is the ASTM D2729, that's the lightest and cheapest. 3034 will work, but it's a pita to try and hang from the ceiling (weight, it's quite a bit thicker).


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks Fred. I have what I need to get started on the electrical project now that I know where the DC is going. They recommend a dedicated 30A circuit for it. Hoping to get some supplies and start working on that today!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*get rid of the 90 fegree in the center*

You should use 2 - 45 degree turns to make the corner. Each 90 degree elbow reduces flow by XX%, I'm not certain what the number is, but it is substantial. 

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/ducting.cfm


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

What about all of the 90 degree drops to the tools? I was planning on doing a 45 degree wye for the planer & jointer drop, small section of pipe, and then a 45 to get it down. All of my other drops are end of line.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I would do any 90 you have by using 2 45's with the short straight between. I only had one place on my system where space constraints wouldn't let me do that, everything else has the mix of 45 els. The idea is to smooth out the airflow as much as possible, the more gentle curves help with that.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Makes sense. Will keep you guys updated. As I mentioned I'm running electrical throughout my shop and out of town next weekend so it might not be until Early November before I really get going on running the duct.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Well, finished my electrical project, including a new dedicated 30A run to where I will mount this cyclone. It is nice to be able to power on the tools I bought a few weeks ago. I still need to get them cleaned and tuned up though.

I'm going to continue pricing out fittings and piping/duct to see where the best price is. Got a few unexpected bills and with the holidays coming around I really don't want to over stretch us, so I might wait a bit before I pull that trigger. In the meantime I'm going to play around with the shrouds and see if I can't make one for my planer, jointer, and table saw to fit the 6" tube. I can also go ahead and mount the cyclone and possibly run the duct for the exhaust to the outside. Should that be rigid pipe as well, or can it be flex?

I still need to disassemble the cyclone body and get it cleaned out, reoriented, and sealed up again.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I would want it to as smooth walled as possible. Flex (and anything with corrugations) has about 3X the drag on air flow of anything that's smooth. That smoothness is just as important on the discharge as it is on the ducting to the tools. That said, you can get into some situations where the only choice is flex, in that case you do what you have to do. Besides, if the run ois very short, it won't matter as much. Glad you gt the wiring set up, there's light at the end of the tunnel:thumbsup:.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Slowly but surely. 

Last week I cleaned up the dust collector good. Took it apart, blew the inside and outside of the body and motor, wiped it all down, and reassembled in the orientation I needed for my setup. I also went up in the attic to make sure my install location would be fine in terms of piping the exhaust up into the attic and out the soffit. Unfortunately this is where those particular plans fell apart: my roof rafters rest directly on the block wall, so I only have about 3.5" of clearance to pipe my 7" exhaust. I thought about fabricating a sort of rectangular "hood" with a 7" inlet and the same cross sectional area to fit between the rafters but decided it wasn't worth the effort and to just use the good filters that came with it.

I purchased the hardware I needed and used the same 2x4 frame the previous owner used to get it mounted tonight with the help of my dad and brother in law. I used four 2x4 horizontal pieces with eight 4" lag bolts into the studs and then used 8' vertical pieces to mount the brackets to and then into the horizontal 2x4s. This offset from the wall helped in a few areas including clearing the conduit and trim piece on the bottom.

One thing that came apparent after mounting it that I hadn't realized, is that my wife and I being 6' and 6'1", will just barely hit the duct coming out of the cyclone right in front of the side door (to the right in the picture.) Even now though, I'm not sure I would change much, as I mentioned earlier, there are only so many ways to orient the duct work with the obstacles, and only so many ways to arrange the tools. I know it is a 'sin' to have a fitting immediately off the cyclone as well, but I might put a 45 immediately off the cyclone to get it to the ceiling as quick as possible, which would alleviate the headroom issue all together. Thoughts?

One other question: can I cut the flex going into the bin? Right now it's pretty hard to get the bin out and back under it, and I was thinking about building a low profile platform with wheels on it which would make it even harder (probably near impossible as it is). I would think there wouldn't be a problem, but the specifications require 9' of room to install and it's at 9' with that much flex going between the body and bin. Not sure if there's some sort of science behind the length.

I plan on buying the remote switch this weekend and getting it wired up, filter cleaned and attached. Still not sure when I'll pull the trigger on the duct work.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

You can cut the flex with no problems, but be sure to leave a little (I had it down to about 6" in my last shop). I may have mentioned this earlier, but for a real industrial grade (and cheaper) remote, consider getting a 240V contactor that has a 120V coil. Then use one of those cheap light switches for the remote to power the coil. You can install the contactor in one of those gray PVC weather proof boxes. The contactor is a once in a lifetime purchase, and if the remote goes bad it's $10 to replace it. The contactors are in the area of $20 or so, and can be had from most industrial supplies and electric houses, as well as Clearview. So for about $40 (counting the box) you get a solid setup. An observation, if I may. The end bell of that motor looks awfully close to the ceiling, it needs some minimum clearance to pull air.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks for the info.

Any observations are welcome. While I cringe at the idea of moving the unit I don't want to have a sub-par install. I will verify when I'm out there next, but I believe there's almost two inches of room between the top of the motor and the ceiling. My ceiling is 9' 1", the 2x4 verticals are 9' long, and I mounted it to where the top of the motor was about an inch below the end of the 2x4s.

If you noticed that, you also probably noticed the odd orientation of the intake and exhaust. I originally planned to have it mounted to the left a bit and have the filter between it and the water heater. But of course my minefield of obstacles on the ceiling would've put the intake directly in line with the attic opening and a light fixture.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

2" is probably adequate. I did notice that orientation, but didn't give it a second thought. It's actually not that different than what I had to do for the same reasons (nice water heater, BTW).


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## middleriggle (Apr 17, 2013)

I know I don't post much, but I'm just throwing in my $0.02. I would not have a dust collector any where near a source of heat, especially if that water heater has an open flame of any kind (pilot included). I know the idea is to capture as much as possible, but those are 2 legs of a triangle that I never want to be that close in my shop (fuel and ignition, you already have O2 in the air). Otherwise, looks like a good find.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Hi middleriggle,

Thanks for your input. The water heater is electric, no gas, so no flame. No part of it gets hot to the touch. The tank itself is plastic and wrapped in insulation with another plastic casing. I'm thinking with the addition of this dust collector, the heater will have even less dust near and on it.


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## ibpdew (Nov 18, 2012)

Is your shop going to be heated? If it is you will be waisting heated area to the outside, plus this exhausted air will need to come from somewhere, ie around door seals, windows, etc. I think you have a good plan but consider discharging back into the room. I have an Oneida and I vent back into my work shop for the above reason as I live in IOWA. Good luck.


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## ibpdew (Nov 18, 2012)

PS- now thinking about it I bought all my pipe (smooth), fittings and blast gates from Oneida. The price was pretty good and they helped me design sizes/fittings, etc. ( I believe it was something like $100) and they deducted that off my order. Its definetly not a cheap project anyway you look at it. :no: Also while I was researching my installation I consider PVC as well. To "safely" use PVC I believe it was recommended running a bare copper wire thru out to ground the system so no static electric, that could cause "problems", could be generated.


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## ibpdew (Nov 18, 2012)

After rereading your post, disregard my thoughts on discharging to the outside as I see you live in Florida.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I haven't settled on metal vs. plastic -- I don't really have a preference. I have not found a good and decently priced local supplier of either. I really did not want to order this stuff online as I'm sure the shipping on it won't be friendly on the wallet and I'd really hate to not order everything I need or order too much, but I most likely will.


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## ibpdew (Nov 18, 2012)

If I remember today I will look up quote as I thought they included shipping? And yes, I ended up with some left over misc. items too.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Pulled the trigger -- Kencraft it is. Due to the holidays they are hoping to have it all packaged up and shipped Thursday or Friday next week. Excited 

I purchased the materials I need for the drops to my table saw, router table, and SCMS, but I need to build DC into those three tools to use it. I will be able to collect from the planer, jointer, bandsaw and DP right off the bat though.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

You are going to have one kick-ass system. I'll be interested to hear your results.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I am excited. I rearranged the shop today as to how it will be with the DC and did a lot of reorganization. 

My order shipped out today. I have to give it to Kencraft so far, the lady I spoke to on the phone was very nice but she told me straight up that my order would likely not ship until Thursday or Friday this week. They were out a few days for Christmas and have tomorrow and Wednesday off and she told me they already had a couple orders to fulfill before mine. Looks like they managed to get it out anyway 

Expected delivery is Jan 6th. I'm hoping an early delivery so I can work on it this weekend before I go back to work but I can't get too greedy!


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Last week I cleaned the filter (air compressor set to 40psi as per instructions), and got it hooked up. Also wired up the remote switch and was able to turn it on for the first time since I bought it. I will need to build a makeshift blast gate for the filter stack bottom clean out. It comes with one but the guy I bought it from didn't have it. I'm thinking something simple like a piece of sheet metal with some weather stripping and a couple hose clamps. It definitely needs something though, it's like a tornado coming out of the bottom when it's on.

I received the order last night around 6PM. Immediately unpacked everything and compared to the order I sent Kencraft. I had everything except the 6" flex hose I bought from them. People make mistakes I thought, and was sure a call today would sort it out. I grabbed the sales receipt they had taped to the side of the box so I could have it handy on the call. At the bottom was a note saying my 6" flex would ship out on Jan 3rd or 6th. Hopefully it's on its way 

First impressions: packaging was good. They used a lot of wood pellet bags to eat up the space. I guess they're using them in a shop stove up there in Ohio to stay warm. The fittings themselves seem well constructed and of heavy gauge material. I purchased 26 gauge snap lock and the fittings are much thicker. Surprisingly heavy.

I got to work with a little time left in the day and managed to get out of the neutral vane, up to the ceiling, to the first wye, and off the wye over to the first drop for my table saw. I did go ahead and commit a DC sin by placing a fitting immediately off the collector. Due to its location I really needed it to get up high as soon as possible. Because of the reducer raising the height of the pipe, my wife can actually barely walk under it without hitting it. We'll see how it performs and if I'm unhappy that will be a place I'll look. They are long radius 45s.

I've only used one 5' section of pipe. I think I bought too much. These fittings are bigger than I thought. I will need to pick up a pair of left or right offset snips as the straight tin snips aren't working well. I pretty much murdered the one cut I've done and caused the remaining section of the pipe to be so out of whack I had to use hose clamps to get it into position to snap it in lock.

The goal for tonight after work is to finish the table saw drop (just a section of pipe and a blast gate), and hopefully come out that wye, 90 towards the center of the room, and wye down towards my planer and jointer. If I don't run into any problems I might be able to get that drop completed as well.

One tip I have for those thinking about doing this by themselves. It is doable, but if your fittings are heavy like mine you will need to be creative. The most awkward piece so far was the ~4' section of pipe and the 90 (assembled on the ground as one piece.) It was so lopsided it was hard to get balanced while pushing it into the wye while simultaneously applying equal pressure on the other side to prevent the whole system from getting pushed. What I did was attach a long piece of hanger strap near the wall (actually, near where it's at now in the picture below) so that I could 'loop' the 90 through it and have it rest in it if needed. I've seen others use notched 2x4s and PVC pipe to help hold them up.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

Sometimes you just have to do things with the ductwork that you wouldn't do in a perfect world.....I think you'll be just fine with that elbow there. Looking good so far!


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks. I'm anxious to get to the opposite wall. I am afraid my original plan won't work for my miter saw. Not sure I have enough room between where I can put the wye in order to the clear the garage door track and still have enough room to attach the large 90 before the wall (to go down it for my band saw.) We will see though, something will work!

I am probably going to end up building a box out of 1/4 ply for the shavings and get rid of that plaster drum. It is an outright pain to get the lid on as it's warped. I'm leaving it on right now as long as possible to hopefully 'true' it up.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

Just be absolutely sure that whatever you do for a dust bin is absolutely air tight. The smallest leak there will allow all the chips and dust to go straight to the filter.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Got it, thanks Fred.

More progress. Completed the table saw drop, although I might further extend it down with hard pipe when I actually enclose the base and hook it up. I also might rotate the gate 90 degrees so that it opens parallel with the wall. As it is now the gate may interfere above the saw when it is open.

Made the turn to the planer & jointer drop and completed it as well. Managed to get one more section of pipe in towards the wall before calling it a night. Hope to get the drill press + router table drop done tonight, but might not have the time.

I have another tip for anyone doing this. I'd never assembled snap lock pipe before so I watched a couple videos on YouTube. They made it look so easy. But I struggled quite a bit (20+ min) to do my first full section of pipe. The pipe in the videos appeared to be a significantly lighter gauge and perhaps already assembled before (screw holes & cobwebs inside.) While these factors can help explain why I had more difficulty with mine, I'm sure inexperience played a role too. Either way, I ended up sliding on a few hose clamps throughout the length of the pipe and tightening them to pull the pipe close along the entire length. Then I went about what they did in the videos and started from one end, pushing it in along the center, and tightening the clamps if needed. Went from 20 minutes of cursing, struggling, and hoping I don't slice my finger to the bone to getting it done in less than 2 minutes with no struggle.

On that note, I bought WAY too much snap lock. At least 10 extra 5' lengths will be my bet.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

That height problem at the door is really obvious in that photo! Still looks like it's coming together really good. that foil tape for sealing the seams is the best way to go, does a nice job. Did the snaplock come from Kencraft? If it was a local purchase maybe you can return it.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

The height problem is probably exaggerated a bit at that angle. I'm 6' 1" and my wife is 5' 10-11". The neutral vane stops before the door and she can walk under everything else. I can walk under it past the 45 elbow, and there's quite a bit of room between it and the outfeed table to do that comfortably. Saying that, I have clobbered the back of my head against the 45 elbow once already. I imagine it will only take a couple more times before I learn to walk closer to the outfeed table 

I bought it all from KenCraft to keep it simple. I also like that they're a small family business. I'll see how much is left, and either put it up on Criagslist or store it somewhere. I do have the standard dream of a larger detached shop on the property, at which point I'm sure the distance between tools would increase.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Not much progress... finished the drop for the drill press and router table.

Only the band saw and miter drop. I actually have all the materials to entirely complete the band saw drop since I received the 4" flex hose (the 6" is what they had to wait on.) I won't be modifying the two built-in 4" dust ports on the saw cabinet initially. Instead I bought a 6x4x4 cross lateral to reduce down to the two 4" lines needed. We'll see how the performance is.

The 8" flex shipped out yesterday to arrive on Monday. 

I'm not sure how much time I will have out there for a bit. My wife left last night to handle a family emergency/crisis and I have to pick up some of the things she was working on (and handle the kid.)


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That systems "sucks", but it looks great!*

You better not move in the next 10 years after all that work AND hopefully you'll be making a lot of dust building cool stuff. :yes:


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

No plans to move! Hopefully I will be able to build a shop on the property but that's not for a couple years if at all. I enjoy the work itself and probably only have 6-8 hours into hanging the duct work. Hours well spent in my book. I work as a programmer during the day so I welcome the chance to use my hands in my evenings and weekends. I'm more concerned with the money aspect -- this stuff ain't cheap. I calculated the cost of a couple of the drops I've done in just the fittings for fun/torture.

I adjusted the plan slightly. Originally I had planned for 3 drops on this wall I'm at now. One for the miter, one for the bandsaw + router table, and one for the DP. I accidentally purchased a wye instead of a 6x6x6 cross lateral like I have on my planer/jointer drop. I altered the layout slightly because of this, but I think it actually is a better method and also addresses the garage track issue I mentioned in a previous post.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

:laughing::laughing::laughing: it almost sounds like you're loving this too much!


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Got the rest of the duct work finished last night. Here's a picture of the band saw and miter station drops. I've got the miter set pretty high as I'm not sure what I'm going to do there quite yet.

I used up every last fitting and blast gate, but have 9 pieces of 5' round pipe left. Some $125 + shipping mistake.

I've been around two other dust collectors so I don't have much to base this on, but damn does this thing have some power. I was nervous to fully close the last blast gate.

I can tell I will not like the blast gates I bought from Kencraft. I didn't really like them much as soon as I got them out and operated them. There's too much play and they rattle if you don't have them in and tightened down just right. They will more than do for now, but I will likely replace them with homemade ones. The fittings were great, but they took some tweaking. The straight portions on the 45s and 90s were not spot welded, so the seam would be separated for as long as 4-6" on some of them. I addressed this by ensuring a screw connecting it to the existing portion of the duct work went through this seam and then taped the seam. This means I had to put a screw on the bottom for some of these fittings, something I wanted to avoid.

I will report back on the actual dust collection ability of this system when I can. I just received the 8" flex last night and haven't got my shop put back together yet. I also need to go to the store tonight to get some materials I need to make a ghetto cover for the bottom filter stack clean out. I am anxious to get some small projects done, so I likely won't make anything to get the table saw or miter saw hooked up quite yet. I will likely make something for the jointer now though, unless I reduce down to 4" at the port like I am for my planer for now.

Thanks all for your help so far, especially Fred.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Alright, first phase complete! I've attached a couple final pictures below. I'm extremely happy with the performance so far. Just for fun I hooked up a long stretch of 8" flex and dumped a lot of shavings from my table saw box on the ground and had my daughter suck it up. Then she cleaned out the entire box :laughing:

The first time I turned it on for my band saw it took about 10s to clean it out like a whistle. There was a ton of fine white oak dust in there from when I re-sawed a bunch for my last project.

The drill press DC works surprisingly well. It even sucked a decent size piece (3/4" thick by 4" wide by about 18" long) up against the hose, which is kind of scary. I will have to be careful there.

The jury-rigged cover for the filter clean out hole works well. The block of wood is there because I could not make a combination of hose clamps that would work with what I had on hand. 

Once I bang out a few projects to get my fix and stop the jitters I will revisit the system. I want to enclose my table saw, build a miter station, and replace the hoods on my planer and jointer to accept the 6" without reducing down to 4". 

I think I am going to regret not putting in a place where I can sweep floor shavings to.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I knew you'd like it! The floor sweep is useful, maybe it's not to late to plan one in? You mentioned something about enclosing your table saw; just remember the saw cabinet needs make up air for all that's being sucked out....so if by enclosing you were going to close off some spots give it a little more though. It might be detrimental. BTW, your installation really looks good!


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks. Definitely not too late to add a floor sweep in. I can easily extend from either the miter or the DP/router drops by replacing the 90 with a wye and 45 (and then using the 90 for the floor sweep hookup.) I could also expand on the other side from the table saw, but that would be a bit trickier. It would need a wye and two 45 fittings.

Good thought on the table saw cabinet. I don't think I will be able to get that guy air tight anyway -- it's a contractor saw. I can likely leave the back open quite a bit and still have enough suction to get the shavings that drop from the blade. Hell, if it's sucking the DP shavings from 6-8" away in open air I don't think it will have an issue getting the table saw dust even with the back entirely open. I will want to add overhead dust collection too -- it sucks getting dust thrown in your face.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

*Thank you very much*

Brandon: 

Thanks for all your work with the photographs and descriptions of your process. I found it very helpful. 

Your installation looks really great and your acquiring of the Tempest was a great deal.

Hopefully, it is now time to make some sawdust!

Eric


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm glad you found it helpful. 

I am definitely making a few projects now. I was getting antsy because I have a very one-track mind and didn't want to do anything past small projects while I was getting everything sorted with the dust collection. I'm currently working on a long awaited "boxy like" shelf for my daughter using a pretty cool wood she picked out -- ambrosia maple. It was interesting to learn how the ambrosia beetle causes the streaking and holes in the wood. It's for a beach themed room so it fits well.

On that note, I've since used each machine that's currently hooked up to the DC and couldn't be happier. I can't wait to get the miter and table saw hooked up. I did pick up a decent Rigid shop vac with a good fine dust filter for use with my hand sander and I even hooked it up to my miter with somewhat good results with the larger particles.

I'm pleased with how everything has turned out. This little 'shop improvement' phase included a lot of work outside of DC, like running outlets, acquiring a few new tools, and of course a new layout. I couldn't believe how fast I was able to work the wood from rough and actually enjoy the process rather than having to repeatedly move extension cords, cleanup messes, etc.


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