# Stain (or is it sane?) advice needed please....



## JW_in_Indy (Mar 20, 2009)

Hello all.... I did a search, but didn't see anything about my help request so here goes.

I am in the process of completely re-doing our bathroom. I am putting up an unfinished oak wainscoat, all new oak base, window and door casing and various other trims. I'm also installing an unfinished oak vanity.

All along I had planned on using Minwax #211 provincial oil stain. I've done several oak pieces in this particular color and I really like the look. I made the mistake of asking the Mrs to pick me up a quart of the #211 while she was out this afternoon and she came home with this Minwax water based stain in the _"charcoal gray"_ color:

http://www.minwax.com/products/wood_stains/water_based_wood_stain.html#Colors

:blink:

She decided all by herself that she wanted the wood to look like "old gray barn siding." So, I run over to Lowes and pick up a piece of 1/4" craft wood oak to play around with/test this product (which I've never used before). Well, try as I might.... it looked like crapola. Oh, it was gray alright, but it was so opaque it completely hid the veins of the oak graining. Wiping off any "excess" caused it to wash off and leave virtually nothing behind. IOW, it didn't penetrate like a normal oil based stain would on oak.... going really dark in the heavily figured more porous grain and lighter in the less porous non grained portion. In no way did it look like the light/dark gray in the teeny-tiny little picture in the link no matter what I did. It was either almost like a paint or there was nothing there.... It looks horrible. :thumbdown:

So, would a transparent exterior transparent stain do the trick or do you guys recommend a better interior oil based product that will give me a more traditional LIGHT/DARK look when staining oak?

All help would be greatly appreciated for this :wheelchair: geezer.

TIA.

*EDIT: *I'm pretty comfortable working with Shellacs, I wonder if possibly using a dye like the black with possibly a touch of the blue added to shellac would give me the desired result? Once the shellac dries, I could then top coat with laquer or probably even better some poly since it's in a bathroom. Thoughts???

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11448&TabSelect=Details


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## Julian the woodnut (Nov 5, 2008)

My advise is to NOT buy minwax water based stain! Your best bet is to go to a sherwin williams dealer and buy their line of stain. This is what the pros use. It is far superior to minwax stains and you will end up with far less blotching and unevenness in final color.


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## JW_in_Indy (Mar 20, 2009)

Julian the woodnut said:


> My advise is to NOT buy minwax water based stain! Your best bet is to go to a sherwin williams dealer and buy their line of stain. This is what the pros use. It is far superior to minwax stains and you will end up with far less blotching and unevenness in final color.


Yeah.... I agree. It took me all of thirty seconds to realize that water based stuff is crapola with a capitol C. 

Dang, I didn't even think of Sherwin Williams. I know it should have an oil based stain to get that deep penetration and light/dark color that makes oak so lovely. But, in perusing oil stains I wasn't seeing anything in the gray color family. Should've thought of SW. 

:wallbash:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The first time I had to come up with the "old barnside look", I marched into my Sherwin-Williams dealer and paid big time for a special mix, which turns out to be a simple pickling stain.

So, I experimented and came up with a very controllable method for getting the right amount of color without killing the grain differentiation. This may sound too simple and in reality it is, but takes some time mixing stuff until you get the right amount of pigment and color for the specie you're working with.

It's basically using oil base paints, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. For that grayish color, start by having some bare wood samples. Don't use any conditioner. You might start with using cooking mixing spoons so you can keep track of the ratios.

What you want to achieve is a penetrating stain that is pigmented. Start with white oil base paint, and use drops carefully with black oil base paint until you get the gray tone you like. *Don't add the white to the black*. You could also try a little blue in some of the mixes. Then rub a little of that right on a piece of wood to see how the color comes up. If it's right, use that solution and add a solution of mineral spirits and add a bit of BLO. The BLO will keep the color mix in suspension in the mineral spirits. 

That is basically the method. You'll experiment with the mix quantities to get a final solution that is easy to apply, stays in solution for a while, and doesn't dry too fast. Allow your samples to completely dry and if you add a topcoat of a clear film finish, let that dry too, because it may change the color.

Roughly speaking, the ratios are going to be heavy on the mineral spirits, and light on the BLO, and just enough paint mix to create some color. It will be a very thin and fluid mix. When using your final mix, stirring regularly helps maintain consistency. If you have a problem in any step, post your problem and we'll try to address it specifically.


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## JW_in_Indy (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Cabinetman.... I've got some artist oils laying around and some oderless, colorless mineral spirits. I'll pick up some Linseed oil and start playing around with it. Heck, I might even have some pipettes laying around somewhere left over from an experiment one of my kids did (the Mrs works in a lab and can get those things by the bucket-fulls), which will make counting drops of paint quite easy.


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## b00kemdano (Feb 10, 2009)

An interesting (or disturbing) aside here is that Sherwin Williams owns Minwax. I suppose you could now consider Minwax stains to be the "off brand" of Sherwin Williams stains. The SW guy told me about this when I went in there looking for stain. o.0


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

b00kemdano said:


> An interesting (or disturbing) aside here is that Sherwin Williams owns Minwax. I suppose you could now consider Minwax stains to be the "off brand" of Sherwin Williams stains. The SW guy told me about this when I went in there looking for stain. o.0



You're right about that. 

Sherwin-Williams is the parent company of: 

Minwax
Duron, 
M.A.B. Paints 
Krylon 
Purdy 
Bestt Liebco 
Thompson's 
H&C 
Cuprinol
Pratt & Lambert 
Martin-Senour 
Dutch Boy 
Columbia Paint & Coatings.


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