# Opinions on these two Dust Collectors.



## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

My next purchase is a dust collector to go with my Unisaw and other future floor tools. I am looking at the following two models:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...0V-2Micron-Canister-Kit-Model-PM1300TXCK.aspx

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...V-2Micron-Canister-Kit-Model-DC1200VXCK1.aspx

I was leaning towards the Jet due to the higher horsepower. Remarkably, these are both new products and look very much like the same machine. Now after seeing the Powermatic, it has a snap ring instead of a plastic band for the bag. It also has almost twice the cubic feet capacity on the bag.

Any opinions?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*These are related*

The Powermatic and Jet use the "vortex cone" what ever that is...
I would ask to see inside either one and see if a Thien baffle like I suspect.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/jet-dust-collection-vortex-cone-25062/
I wouldn't spend the money unless I knew for sure as it's cheaper to buy a HF and add your own Thien baffle.
This thread shows how to make them: 
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/yes-works-25110/

As far as 2x the bag capacity...it will be very heavy if you fill it...not a big issue to me.......DAMHIK


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

I am looking at them, because I need to minimize all space possible in my work area. Adding a second separator would almost double the footprint. We use vortex cones in the chemical industry and they do work extremely well on an industrial scale.


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## xphnmn (Dec 7, 2009)

Jet and powermatic are both products of WMH tool group. I agree with woodnthings, the Harbor Freight 2 hp dust collector is much less expensive than either of these and with inexpensive upgrades does a really good job. Bag capacity shouldn't really be an issue. I have only had to change mine once so far. Granted, I don't use the shop every day but when I do it's usually for many days in a row.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> The Powermatic and Jet use the "vortex cone" what ever that is...
> I would ask to see inside either one and see if a Thien baffle like I suspect.
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/jet-dust-collection-vortex-cone-25062/
> I wouldn't spend the money unless I knew for sure as it's cheaper to by a HF and add your own Thien baffle.
> ...


I bought the HF DC fri and got it plumbed up today... Love it!!! Excited to see what some upgrades do for it...

~tom


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Those are both on the expensive side, but you get a nice big impeller, good fit/finish, good build quality, good CFM (realistic ratings), etc., so either should have good bones for whatever you might do with it in the future. Of those two, I'd definitely spend the $30 to get the metal exit chute on the PM. I understand that the HF unit works fairly well for the money, but your budget affords you a bit more oomph and performance if that's one of your objectives.

Here's some food for thought from Grizzly. Compact cyclone with a 13-1/2" impeller, remote control, and has a similar footprint to a standard DC unit. 

Grizzly also has the G0548Z that's more comparable to the Jet & PM for $450 to your door. Well made, steel exit chute, 12-3/4" impeller, realistic CFM, etc.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback! I looked at the HF model and didn't like that it is 5 microns. Since this will be in an attached garage, I want the best possible dust collection and filtration. I want it large enough for a full shop since I won't stay in the garage for more than 5 years.


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## xphnmn (Dec 7, 2009)

mwhals said:


> Thanks for all the feedback! I looked at the HF model and didn't like that it is 5 microns. Since this will be in an attached garage, I want the best possible dust collection and filtration. I want it large enough for a full shop since I won't stay in the garage for more than 5 years.


 
Yes, the HF dc is only 5 microns but there are 1 micron bags available to fit it and cannister filters that filter down to .5 microns. You can upgrade to a 1 micron cannister for about $100 (a one micron bag is even less) or a .5 micron cannister for $165 dollars and get better filtration than with either the Jet or the Powermatic for about the same or less money.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Looking at the HF model specs you may be better off with grizzly or Shop Fox because they both have larger intake and exhaust ports like the Jet and PM they would still be cheaper and you could easily add the Thien baffle and a canister filter to .5 micron cheaper then both of those. However if you want off the shelf unit and have no 220v then the Jet is out. The PM specs look as good or better then the Jet so either would work good but the PM is a 110v motor.

Sorry to all the HF fans I still think it's a good deal but with a 2HP motor and a 4" inlet and 4" exhaust port It is lacking big time in that category.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

rrbrown said:


> Looking at the HF model specs you may be better off with grizzly or Shop Fox because they both have larger intake and exhaust ports like the Jet and PM they would still be cheaper and you could easily add the Thien baffle and a canister filter to .5 micron cheaper then both of those. However if you want off the shelf unit and have no 220v then the Jet is out. The PM specs look as good or better then the Jet so either would work good but the PM is a 110v motor.
> 
> Sorry to all the HF fans I still think it's a good deal but with a 2HP motor and a 4" inlet and 4" exhaust port It is lacking big time in that category.


220 is no problem as I am putting at least two in the garage to allow for a dust collector and table saw running on different 220 circuits.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

rrbrown said:


> Looking at the HF model specs you may be better off with grizzly or Shop Fox because they both have larger intake and exhaust ports like the Jet and PM they would still be cheaper and you could easily add the Thien baffle and a canister filter to .5 micron cheaper then both of those. However if you want off the shelf unit and have no 220v then the Jet is out. The PM specs look as good or better then the Jet so either would work good but the PM is a 110v motor.
> 
> Sorry to all the HF fans I still think it's a good deal but with a 2HP motor and a 4" inlet and 4" exhaust port It is lacking big time in that category.


Rich, I'll have to double check the actual size, but when I was plumbing in the DC from HF yesterday I noticed the inlet and outlet are not 4"... Probably 5" or there bouts... The inlet does have an adapter that goes down to 2 4" intakes... But the hose from fan to bag is deff larger than the 4" I bought... It looks like 6"...

Just throwing that out there... I

~tom


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh, and HF does have a 2 bag 3hp model... Only available on-lind though...

~tom


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

firemedic said:


> Rich, I'll have to double check the actual size, but when I was plumbing in the DC from HF yesterday I noticed the inlet and outlet are not 4"... Probably 5" or there bouts... The inlet does have an adapter that goes down to 2 4" intakes... But the hose from fan to bag is deff larger than the 4" I bought... It looks like 6"...
> 
> Just throwing that out there... I
> 
> ~tom


I was going off the HF website and it says

Description of Central Machinery 97869 
Large-capacity dust collection system with 70 gallon, 5 micron top bag captures the finest dust for a cleaner work environment in your shop or garage. That includes sanding dust, workshop dust and dirt, sawdust.


Clear bottom bag, so you’ll know when it’s full
Four locking swivel casters for easy transport
Lockable toggle switch
4" diameter intake and 4" diameter exhaust
Includes two collection bags, casters, hex wrenches
Overweight Item subject to 14.95 additional Freight Charge.
 2 HP, 120 volt, 60 Hz, 20 amp peak, single-phase motor 3450 RPM 1550 CFM air suction capacity Overall dimensions: 33" L x 22" W x 75-1/2" H Weight: 103 lbs. Shipping Weight: 103.58 lbs.

My Shop Fox has a 6" inlet and 5" exhaust with a 12" impeller and a 1.5 hp motor


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Fyi*

The words don't match the picture. Looks like a 5" or 6" reduced down to a pair of 4" inlets.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> The words don't match the picture. Looks like a 5" or 6" reduced down to a pair of 4" inlets.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/media/...ab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_3978.jpg


Yeah, like I said... I don't think it's 4", I'll measure it tomr...

~tom


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## xphnmn (Dec 7, 2009)

firemedic said:


> Yeah, like I said... I don't think it's 4", I'll measure it tomr...
> 
> ~tom


I measured my HF 2hp inlet port and it's 5" with an added on wye that splits it to two 4". As I recall, the impeller is 12" and the output to the collector ring is also 5".


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

FWIW, BOTH of those listed dust collectors would need to be upgraded before I bothered even turning them on. 2 micron filtration is just not fine enough! Both Jet and Powermatic ought to be ashamed that they even offer that...


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

mwhals said:


> I am looking at them, because I need to minimize all space possible in my work area. Adding a second separator would almost double the footprint. We use vortex cones in the chemical industry and they do work extremely well on an industrial scale.


You can, and many people do install Thien baffles in the inlet / separator ring of single stage dust collectors. It is a very easy build. 30 minutes or so once you understand how to do it... The main reason for having a pre separator barrel is to avoid having debris hit the impeller, not to mention they are far easier to empty than the lower bags on most dust collectors...


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

rrbrown said:


> Looking at the HF model specs you may be better off with grizzly or Shop Fox because they both have larger intake and exhaust ports like the Jet and PM they would still be cheaper and you could easily add the Thien baffle and a canister filter to .5 micron cheaper then both of those. However if you want off the shelf unit and have no 220v then the Jet is out. The PM specs look as good or better then the Jet so either would work good but the PM is a 110v motor.
> 
> Sorry to all the HF fans I still think it's a good deal but with a 2HP motor and a 4" inlet and 4" exhaust port It is lacking big time in that category.


The HF 2HP DC has 5" in and out, the 5" in splits to 2 4" using a wye... it works but could be better sure... But I have found that running both 4" lines, one upper, and one lower, gives me great results...

The HF site is certainly incorrect if you grabbed from there. The exhaust is 5", which is still not great, but certainly better than 4"...

A few folks are modding them with a 6" inlet to the separator ring, that is honestly beyond what I want to do...


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

xphnmn said:


> I measured my HF 2hp inlet port and it's 5" with an added on wye that splits it to two 4". As I recall, the impeller is 12" and the output to the collector ring is also 5".


I think the impeller on the HF is 10-3/4", unless they've changed it recently.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> The words don't match the picture. Looks like a 5" or 6" reduced down to a pair of 4" inlets.





firemedic said:


> Yeah, like I said... I don't think it's 4", I'll measure it tomr...
> 
> ~tom





dbhost said:


> The HF 2HP DC has 5" in and out, the 5" in splits to 2 4" using a wye... it works but could be better sure... But I have found that running both 4" lines, one upper, and one lower, gives me great results...
> 
> The HF site is certainly incorrect if you grabbed from there. The exhaust is 5", which is still not great, but certainly better than 4"...
> 
> A few folks are modding them with a 6" inlet to the separator ring, that is honestly beyond what I want to do...


Well I guess I was wrong because of bad info. Yes it cam from the HF site which evidently is wrong. As you said 5" is better then 4" and not as good as 6"

I would have to agree with the fact that PM and Jet should be ashamed of themselves for putting 2 micron filters on them. 

Even with the new info if you want to run a 6" main line for better performance I would not go with the Jet or PM because of the 2 micron filters. I would go with a Grizzley or Shop Fox and you would still need to get a Wynn filter. However it probably still be a better deal than the Jet and PM.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

The HF is workable, but in all honesty, If I had the $$ to redo my dust collection and run the power for it, I would grab a Grizzly G0441 and run an 8" main with 6" and 4" lines to the machines... Still gotta do top and bottom pickup though!

If you are going for bang for the buck, it is painfully hard to beat the HF 2HP DC / Wynn combo. It can be done IF you get lucky on Craigslist, but don't count on it...


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## xphnmn (Dec 7, 2009)

knotscott said:


> I think the impeller on the HF is 10-3/4", unless they've changed it recently.


 
I think you're right about the impeller size. Thanks!


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

A lot to think about! Thanks for the discussion.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

mwhals said:


> Thanks for all the feedback! I looked at the HF model and didn't like that it is 5 microns. Since this will be in an attached garage, I want the best possible dust collection and filtration. I want it large enough for a full shop since I won't stay in the garage for more than 5 years.


This is true on the 5 micron, and just like those 2 micron collectors in the first post, it needs to be upgraded to a 1 micron or better filter. Wynn Environmental and Grizzly both have canister filters that fit the bill. The Wynn is the most common upgrade. At the cost of a HF 2HP DC AND a Wynn canister filter, you are still money ahead of a comparable major brand bag filter fitted DC with the same 5" in / out ports... Which is a huge reason why the HF DC is so popular. Not too many folks leave the 5 micron bag on them. Those that do, take their health into their own hands...


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Since this will be in my garage, I am going to put it closer to the door. This way I can move it outside in the driveway when running it if the weather is good.

I still have to give it some thought. I love the Grizzley models with like the GO440 or GO441, but they are just too big. I do plan on putting an air filtration unit on the ceiling to help clean up the air. If I do that will a 2 micro filter do on the dust collector given that it still removes a large percentage of 1 micron particles?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

xphnmn said:


> I measured my HF 2hp inlet port and it's 5" with an added on wye that splits it to two 4". As I recall, the impeller is 12" and the output to the collector ring is also 5".


~tom


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

xphnmn said:


> I measured my HF 2hp inlet port and it's 5" with an added on wye that splits it to two 4". As I recall, the impeller is 12" and the output to the collector ring is also 5".


Deff 6" outlet...

~tom


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

firemedic said:


> Deff 6" outlet...
> 
> ~tom



I just went out to the shop grabbed a caliper and checked. It measures just a shave over 5" over the hose...


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

mwhals said:


> Since this will be in my garage, I am going to put it closer to the door. This way I can move it outside in the driveway when running it if the weather is good.
> 
> I still have to give it some thought. I love the Grizzley models with like the GO440 or GO441, but they are just too big. I do plan on putting an air filtration unit on the ceiling to help clean up the air. If I do that will a 2 micro filter do on the dust collector given that it still removes a large percentage of 1 micron particles?


It is better to catch more than less. I guess the question is how much exposure can you tolerate? I tend to have a LOT of allergy problems, so less is best for me... 

Don't get me wrong, but before I spend my hard earned coin on either the Jet or Powermatic DC, I would go for a Grizzly G1029Z2 and add either a Wynn 35A filter, or a Grizzly H7583 (The 35A actually is more likely to fit better!)....


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

dbhost said:


> I just went out to the shop grabbed a caliper and checked. It measures just a shave over 5" over the hose...


Well then I stand corrected... I never put a measure to it but was judging off the 4"...

~tom


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

firemedic said:


> Well then I stand corrected... I never put a measure to it but was judging off the 4"...
> 
> ~tom


You got me curious is all...


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

How about sound level since this will be in an attached garage? The Powermatic one is as low as 75 decibels and I am going to install an air cleaner too.

The Powermatic removes 98% of 2 micron and 86% of 1 micron particles, which I assume is similar to other 2 micron filtered units. An air cleaner will clean up to 85% of the 1 micron particles. 0.14 x 0.15 = 2.1% of 1 micron particles remaining in the air.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

The Jet 2 HP 1200 CFM model was on sale for nearly $100 off locally, so I bought it. I also bought the Jet 1000 CFM air filtration unit to hang in the garage. I will pick them up together with the Unisaw when I get a pretty Saturday and my wrist tendonitis is better and when our driveway is completed (currently concreting the last 50 to 70 feet). Once all the "ands" are taken care of I will have a great start to my garage workshop that is discussed in a thread in the main discussion forum.

It really came down to the fact that I had a hard time believing the HF 2 HP dust collector was really 2 HP since it was only 120V. I do realize it was pulling 20 amps, which is about twice what the Jet is pulling at 240V making it plausible. The Jet was also advantageous, because I can pick it up myself. Anyone else (Grizzly, HF) will require paying for shipping.

This thread was a great discussion that I find will help many others in the future. Thanks for all the great comments! :yes: I am sure I am not the only one here with (or soon to have) a Jet dust collector.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I'd be curious to see what the particle counts would be like with that rig compared to a 1 micron or better filter fitted rig. 

I do agree, as most do, the HF 2HP DC is more like 1.5 HP, which is fine for what it does... If you don't have a Harbor Freight close by, I would steer clear. The advantage of HF is being able to return something if you get a dud... Shipping costs can quickly eat up any savings you may have had if you have to return a bad machine...


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## Hammered Toes (Mar 16, 2011)

I tried my HF 2HP collector yesterday for the first time and, for the money, am well pleased. I don't do woodworking as a profession so the HF machine is all I expected and more. There is no doubt in my mind that both wyes will not do the job at the same time, On a single line yesterday, with about 15-18 feet of hose, I didn't see a wrench lying in some sawdust and when I laid the hose down to get another machine ready for hookup, it picked the wrench up and put it into the collector bag. I should have shut the machine off before I laid the hose down but I have trouble walking so thought I would make the change with it running. I didn't see how I could get hurt with a 4" hose sucking air, but the noise just about made me crap my pants. So far it doesn't look like I hurt the machine. But if it had, I still could not blame HF for shoddy workmanship.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

dbhost said:


> I'd be curious to see what the particle counts would be like with that rig compared to a 1 micron or better filter fitted rig...


I calculated that the dust collector and air filtration unit combined would collect 97.9% of the 1 micron dust. I would also have the 16 foot garage door open during dry weather when working on a project.


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## dwendt1978 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hammered Toes said:


> I didn't see a wrench lying in some sawdust and when I laid the hose down to get another machine ready for hookup, it picked the wrench up and put it into the collector bag. .


 
I bet that was loud!!


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## Hammered Toes (Mar 16, 2011)

dwendt1978 said:


> I bet that was loud!!


It most certainly was LOUD! But I tried it on my miter saw today and it worked perfectly, so I must not have hurt it. My saw has a small zippered sack that catches sawdust but doesn't catch nearly all of it. I just laid the 4" nozzle beside the saw and it picked up most of the dust from a distance of about 4". Like I said before, I am not a production shop and I believe this collector will do me well.


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