# Interested in the Tapered Bit Countersink Set



## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I bought a large set of Craftsman Flat Countersinks in 1971 I think and I loved it. They were easy to sharpen, and tapered with shoulder for wood screws. 










I ended up losing them and buying a different set that just had the counter sink and a straight drill bit. It was ok, but I did not like not having the shoulder and I would use a little larger drill for the shoulder which took more time.

Now I have a 13-Piece Makita 784832-A Quad-Driver Countersink Set and I hate it. I cannot recommend it to anybody and I would rather have my old Craftsman flat blade set.









Anyway I saw a set at Wood craft with tapered drill bits that might help with the shoulders, but looks very difficult to sharpen. Anyone have any comments on these before I buy it?


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## mavawreck (Nov 26, 2011)

I have a set of older fuller tapered bits with the shoulder and I love them.


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## mrcanterbury (May 7, 2012)

Have you looked at the jack rabbit kit? I love it. 
http://www.jackrabbittool.com


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

mrcanterbury said:


> Have you looked at the jack rabbit kit? I love it.
> http://www.jackrabbittool.com


No I haven't seen that. Looks interesting.

My biggest problem is that I have boxes of wood screws with the shoulder and I have to have a second drill ready to go to open it up for the shoulder. When I'm in a hurry I'll just use sheet rock or deck screws with the threads all the way up, but I really like the old fashion wood screws with the shoulder because I think they are stronger.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Hey I just found a set that looks perfect for me by accident and its cheaper. I think I'm going to order it because it has the shoulder. Milescraft 5341 Counter Bit Set, 4-Piece 










OOPS I guess its no longer available.:wallbash:


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

*Ok Change in plans*

I realy like the looks of the Milescraft ,but I can't find but one set for $50, However I did find that Vermont American makes the #16515 Hex Shank Pilot Drill Set so I guess that's what I'm going to buy.

After looking at screws and counter sinks it appears that they must not make the old kind of screws with shoulders anymore so I guess its not necessary to have the shoulder part. I do not know this for sure and I'm only guessing.


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## CedarSlayer (Oct 5, 2013)

*Hands Down, the best ever.*

No joke here this is the best. This clumsily made but effective Birdcage Screw Starter was made to match a screw size that I use a lot of.










It is a lot sturdier than your normal screw starter, does not clog with sawdust and works just as fast in a power tool as the expensive and fragile bits you normally use for the job. This also works by hand, so there is no downside to this. It does not get stuck, it holds up, and is really cheap. For the price of a long bit that no longer grips, and the time to grind a square or diamond shape on and old bit, you have a superior bit for the job than any made.

Bob


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks Bob, so I take it that it has a cutting surface to drill into the wood. It would defeat my purpose to hammer it in. :smile:

When I first bought my Craftsman flat set in the early ‘70s I didn’t fully understand about the shoulder thing. I started have troubles after I bought my second set. It wasn’t until my third set that I realized what the problem was. Softwood would just absorb the excess metal, but not hard woods and dug fur which I used a lot of. It was frustrating when the piece would split as soon as that shoulder went in. 

I have to say I really learned a lot in the last day or two and I wish I would have known about the different screw kits 20 years ago. I really like that Milescraft 5341 Counter Bit Set and I did find one on eBay, but there is no way in hell I’m paying $50


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## CedarSlayer (Oct 5, 2013)

A birdcage awl has a tip that is usually shaped like the Washington Monument. They used to be used by hand to drill the holes for making small cages.

My advice is, waste a moment with an old bit and a grinder. make one and test it.

For starting drill holes and even boring small holes, it is better than a gimlet. A rough one will beat anything you have ever used. Perfectly square is not an issue here. In fact a diamond shape is more aggressive. Try it and you will wonder why you ever used anything else for the job. Putting a screw shape profile on a birdcage awl is my own invention, but it works like a charm.

Bob


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I like using a drill/countersink without the collar stop. It can leave a mark. Using the bit without the stop is just a matter of feel. Countersink doesn't have to be very deep.

The bits I buy have the removable drill bit/replacement. With the allen screw adjustment, it gives a good range of drilling depth, unlike the bits with a hex shank.


























.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I have a couple of screw starters that I used to use every day to fasten electrical boxes of a wall. It was great where it didn’t matter about any splitting the wood because the electric box covered it. Then when they came out with cordless drills with magnetic bits to hold the screws my old screw starters went into hibernation and I haven’t even looked at them since.

I actually liked the adjustable collar stop that was on the old Craftsman Flat set because it had a spring set hold it in place at 3 predetermined stops. Almost flush, medium and deep for plugs. I always filled in the holes and sanded them any so I didn’t care about marking, but then I stopped as soon as it touched bottom. 

Cabinetman that set you show there there is OK for the new screws sold these days without shoulders, but its not so good for shoulders and can be a pain in the Butt. I stopped using nails 30 years ago and have been using screws ever since and I use a lot of them. Plus I still have a large supply of the old screws so there’s no sense for me to start now, although I do use them a lot.

Sometimes I like to be able to take things apart and recycle parts into something else and I got to say those old screws with the solid shoulders are probably 20x as strong as deck screws. If I would have saved all the deck screws that have broken over the years, I would have filled a couple of buckets by now. the only thing that would ever happen to the old screw was the slot might get damaged from the screw driver and I can't get it out. I pre-drill every screw hole either with a countersink drill bit like above or just a regular drill bit without the countersink.

The more I think about it the more I like my old Craftsman set and I may go on a quest to find my old set this week end. I just can’t believe that I haven’t come across them, but I haven’t been looking for them since I started using the Makita Countersink Set with the magnetic screw holder. If Sears still sold the flat set, I’d buy a new set right now.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Well I just bought this set on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-SCREW-PIL...924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2d2719fc

It will do what I want it to do and the price is not too extravagant.
The photo below is of the pieces broken out except for the allen wrench, but you can see the extra cut for the shoulder.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sleeper said:


> The photo below is of the pieces broken out except for the allen wrench, but you can see the extra cut for the shoulder.


That looks a bit deep for a shoulder.


















.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Not really, its perfect. :thumbsup:

As it turned out I discovered that I already had a set so I took a photo of a #12 wood screw & Countersink. Oh well now I have an extra set. :huh:


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