# Church door solid or laminated?



## barrywalsh68 (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm making a pair of entry doors for a church to replace weathered and cracking existing (pic attached). 92" x 36" x 2 1/4" each. Frame and panel. Planning to use QSWO. I'm thinking I should laminate as opposed to looking for 10/4 QSWO because of availability. Would use an epoxy like Smiths Teak and Oak glue. Will use Smiths CPES for preservation of wood. My two options were going to be: 1) a three ply lamination of 3/4" thick boards, for both stiles and rails, using the middle ply as the integral tenon on the latter. Tenon is going to be 3/4" Pros: stability of wood, reducing movement; tenon would be one continuous piece; Cons: two glue surfaces instead of one; hard to get finished board down to exact size while keeping the middle ply centered; when mortices are being cut, will glue remaining from lamination reduce adhesion on tenons (I plan on pinning the tenons) 2) a two ply lamination of 6/4 boards jointed and planed down to the 2 1/4" thickness. Pros: one glue surface; keeping glue line exactly centered for tenon is less critical; Mortice will not have glue surface exposed on walls Cons: tenon will be a glued up piece little bit less wood stability advice and input very welcome


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think if you are going to laminate it the fewer layers the better. Given the availability of wood you have you might use two layers instead of three. I realize you are trying to recreate through mortising but laminating the wood in this manor will be very different. Instead of the through mortise helping the joint the laminated wood will be working against each other. 

Then rather than epoxy I would use an exterior glue such as titebond III. Epoxy is better suited for non-porous things. The titebond III is made for wood.

I don't know about the Smiths CPES finish. I've never used it but from what I can read about it it's made for old work which has wood borderline rotten. I don't know how well it would do on new wood. New wood is going to expand and contract more. You might be better off with Epifanes varnish.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Doors pictured look to be in good shape. Why not just do some restoration?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I like the 3 piece lamination*

I used the same approach on a Mission Style headboard:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/mission-headboard-build-37911/










You get the tenon for "free" and you can leave a space for them when you glue the styles up. 

My friend is a commercial custom door builder, http://troycornersdoor.com/pricing.html,
and he uses a epoxy glued lamination of multiple sections of 2 1/4" Maple for all the rails and styles , them covers them with a 1/4" skin of the desired wood, Oak, Maple, Cherry etc. The are very stable as opposed to a solid wood construction. Your 3 piece lamination will be more stable than a solid wood construction. Use Titebond 3 for the glue or epoxy.

His laminated door construction:
http://troycornersdoor.com/construction.html


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## barrywalsh68 (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks, Steve. Meant to say I'd be using the Epifanes varnish as final coat. CPES/Epifanes has become my standard... read about it in a Fine Woodworking article some years ago. As for the CPES, I've used it on several outdoor furniture projects with great success. It made its name as a restorer for rotting teak in boats, but can also be used as a sealer on new wood.....resists moisture absorption, especially on end grain. It's a VOC so good ventilation is essential.


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## barrywalsh68 (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks, Toolman50. The doors are 40+ year old red oak and have some serious issues. Someone used varnish to refinish them a few years ago and it looks like the panels got 'glued' into their grooves by that and then split in two cases and shrank in three other cases such that there are visible cracks between panel and stiles. They want new doors. Also, five of the eight the panels have visible cracks at the glue-lines. I don't know what glue the original woodworker used but 40 years ago, I don't think he had access to TitebondIII. Does anyone have an idea what he might have used back then for an outer door? By the way, the doors were very well made by a real craftsman and the only question I might have asked him was why the stiles have through mortices which has left the tenons exposed at edges. Since the stiles are 5 1/2" wide, it could be that he had to come at the mortices from both sides or maybe he did not want any 'piston' effect when inserting tenons into the mortices?


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

walsh said:


> Thanks, Toolman50. The doors are 40+ year old red oak and have some serious issues. Someone used varnish to refinish them a few years ago and it looks like the panels got 'glued' into their grooves by that and then split in two cases and shrank in three other cases such that there are visible cracks between panel and stiles. They want new doors. Also, five of the eight the panels have visible cracks at the glue-lines. I don't know what glue the original woodworker used but 40 years ago, I don't think he had access to TitebondIII. Does anyone have an idea what he might have used back then for an outer door? By the way, the doors were very well made by a real craftsman and the only question I might have asked him was why the stiles have through mortices which has left the tenons exposed at edges. Since the stiles are 5 1/2" wide, it could be that he had to come at the mortices from both sides or maybe he did not want any 'piston' effect when inserting tenons into the mortices?



I understand . Bottom line is "they want new doors". 
Big project for anyone working alone. I struggle to lift a big heavy Red Oak door like that by myself. 
Even a restoration would be a hard job. I'm sure when you're finished the new doors will be around for more than another 40 years. We are all promised better glues and better finishes than 40 years ago. :thumbsup:


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