# Clamp question?



## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

In your guys opinion, I found on Amazon bar clamp ends by Irwin, they sell them in 1/2 and 3/4 inch sizes. Is there a noticeable difference in either one, does the 1/2 have enough flex for a 6 foot clamp to be an issue? Does anyone have the Irwin ones and does not like them, should I get grizzly or pony? At this point I am jointing boards to make a 27" shelf. Figured I may as well go ahead and get the 6 foot pipe, trying to save money where I can. Any advice you guys have for me would be greatly appreciated.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I sometimes bend 3/4" clamps especially if galvanized pipe is used. I wouldn't want to go smaller. I've never used the grizzly or Irwin. It's the pipe that matters. The black pipe has a thicker wall than water pipe.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I only use 3/4" but ....*

You don't need to bend the pipes to get good clamping pressure, so 1/2" should work. I just started with 3/4" and stayed with it.

a discussion on WWT:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/clamps-3056-print/index2/


I knew Leo had said he used only 1/2" clamps:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/pipe-clamps-36440-print/
Leo G's clamp rack shows a lot of 1/2" Ponys unless I'm mistaken:
















This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.









The clamps Leo uses in use:


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I have 1/2" and have never had a bending problem when using 6' or 7'. They are lighter than 3/4" and therefore easier to maneuver.

The secret of not bending a clamp is to not over tighten. This not only bends clamps, it does not provide the best joint.

George


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## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

I went with 3/4. Figured I'm covered if I need to go really long. Thanks for all the advice.


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## woodchux (Jul 6, 2014)

Using mostly 1/2" black pipe for many of my projects seems to "hold" things together OK. For a variety of lengths, I have 2', 3', & 4' threaded pipe pieces to attach together with connectors giving extra long pipe lengths when needed. Be safe.


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

Only time I've bent a 1/2" pipe was when I was misusing it. I bent a 3/4" once using it as a pry bar...

I like the 1/2" clamps better(weight/size), but seem to have more 3/4". I like the handles on the 3/4" better.


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## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

I just got the clamps from jet.com. Had a 25% off coupon. Got 6 3/4" clamps for $81. Looked everywhere and could not beat that. Only chance I had to beat it would be if someone was selling theirs on Craigslist or something like that but found none. I bought the pads from pony. $1.29 each. Just need to go buy the pipe. Home Depot and lowes have 10' for just under $14. Going to buy 2 and have them cut into 3 sections each. Will do what I need for now. Great part is if I need longer just have to buy pipe. So far very happy with them. Thanks for the replies guys. All good advise, you can never have too much good advise, just have make the final decision on your own based on experience of others and personal experience.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

If your bending a 1/2" pipe while clamping you better rethink your joints.You're doing something wrong.


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## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

Got my clamps and made a rack today. Thanks for all the advise. So far I am very happy with them.


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Looks like Jorgenson 3/4" with black pipe. Good choice. Try not to be tempted by sale prices on other brands now that you have chosen. Each brand seems to have a different height and mismatches can create difficulties. I see they are also the same lengths. That can pay dividends as in the last Woodenthing's picture in post 3.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*just to be clear ...*

Those are Leo G's 1/2" pipe clamps in HIS really cool clamp storage rack. :smile3:


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## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

Old Skhool said:


> Looks like Jorgenson 3/4" with black pipe. Good choice. Try not to be tempted by sale prices on other brands now that you have chosen. Each brand seems to have a different height and mismatches can create difficulties. I see they are also the same lengths. That can pay dividends as in the last Woodenthing's picture in post 3.


not sure what you are getting at by paying dividends?:huh:
i see your point about not picking up for example irwin pipe clamps because they may line up and hold things the way i need them to because of the difference in the clamps. thats a good point and i never thought about that before. Thanks for the tip. :smile3:


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> I have 1/2" and have never had a bending problem when using 6' or 7'. They are lighter than 3/4" and therefore easier to maneuver.
> 
> The secret of not bending a clamp is to not over tighten. This not only bends clamps, it does not provide the best joint.
> 
> George


Over 8,000 posts....and you give poor clamping advise.

You can put light pressure on somethings but pipe clamps are designed for maximum pressure. If there not bending there not making the best joint possible.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

raqumup said:


> not sure what you are getting at by paying dividends?:huh:
> i see your point about not picking up for example irwin pipe clamps because they may line up and hold things the way i need them to because of the difference in the clamps. thats a good point and i never thought about that before. Thanks for the tip. :smile3:


I think the dividends he was referring to was the fact that in that glueup the clamps are being used as legs for the top. Since th e clamps are all the same length, they all hit the ground and give good support. If 3 of your clamps were 3 footers and the 4th was a 4 footer you couldn't do that



Rebelwork said:


> Over 8,000 posts....and you give poor clamping advise.
> 
> You can put light pressure on somethings but pipe clamps are designed for maximum pressure. If there not bending there not making the best joint possible.


That seems like much worse advise. If your clamps are bending during a glueup, your joints need work, and if the joints are good and you're bending clamps anyway, you're squeezing all the glue out from the joint and making the joint worse

Don't believe me? This guy put numbers to it:
https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue_methods.html


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

"if the joints are good and you're bending clamps anyway, you're squeezing all the glue out from the joint and making the joint worse"


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

There are a few differences between the 1/2" and 3/4" clamps. Obviously the pipe diameter. But the head of a 1/2" clamp has a sliding handle, the head of the 3/4" clamp has a fixed handle. This can make a big difference in close quarters.

The 1/2" clamp seems to be best suited to 3/4"-1" thick material. The 3/4" clamps best suited for 1" to 1 1/2" material.

Since most of the material I glue up is 13/16" the 1/2" works well for me. If you need to put a lot of pressure on a clamp then you can balance it with another clamp on the top of the project. With equal pressure your project stays flat.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

How about an explanation of this set up? Only 3 clamps on that large a piece doesn't make sense to me....?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Looks like what ever it is they are gluing together is only 2 sections. So the normal stiffness of the material is probably good enough for the 3 clamp system. I would have used 6


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> How about an explanation of this set up? Only 3 clamps on that large a piece doesn't make sense to me....?


There is originally 5 -7 clamps to start. After 2-3 days excessive clamps are removed but because of the thickness(5.25) the glue can still be wet in the dowel sockets and some clamps remain till it hits the planer and off to finishing...


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## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

Wow. Did not want to start a fight. It's just a clamp question. Everyone has their own opinion and that's what makes the world go around. If we all thought the same way, the world would be a boring place. As long as there was no funny stuff in the glueing and clamping tests that that guy did. I have to say I learned something. I also learned that when joining boards with biscuits, don't use one every 6 inches on a 6' board, and don't put glue on the biscuits, and have plenty of clamps. My biscuits started to swell before I finished putting them in and I only had 2 long clamps. Luckily I had drilled pocket holes in between all the biscuits so I clamped it and tightened the screws and had to work my way down the board. I made it but just barely. Best lessons are learned.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

raqumup said:


> Wow. Did not want to start a fight. it was people sharing opinions  I also learned that when joining boards with biscuits, don't use one every 6 inches on a 6' board, and don't put glue on the biscuits, and have plenty of clamps. no glue? why not? My biscuits started to swell before I finished putting them in and I only had 2 long clamps. Luckily I had drilled pocket holes in between all the biscuits so I clamped it and tightened the screws and had to work my way down the board. biscuits, pocket holes, glue, and clamps? I made it but just barely. Best lessons are learned. what were you gluing that required this technique? you may have had more jointing methods than were required, making the task more difficult.



.....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Agreed!*



raqumup said:


> Wow. Did not want to start a fight. It's just a clamp question. Everyone has their own opinion and that's what makes the world go around. If we all thought the same way, the world would be a boring place. As long as there was no funny stuff in the glueing and clamping tests that that guy did. I have to say I learned something. I also learned that when joining boards with biscuits, don't use one every 6 inches on a 6' board, and don't put glue on the biscuits, and have plenty of clamps. My biscuits started to swell before I finished putting them in and I only had 2 long clamps. Luckily I had drilled pocket holes in between all the biscuits so I clamped it and tightened the screws and had to work my way down the board. I made it but just barely. Best lessons are learned.


What you did was Total Overkill. If you want to glue 2 6 ft boards all you need is glue and several clamps across it, no bisquits, no pocket holes and screws. 

Biscuits are for alignment, not strength. They must be set in the slots evenly AND the slots must be dead on level from the same side of all the boards. A spot of glue is all you need, if any, and work from one side down the length. Then glue the other edge and assemble. The few times I've used them assembly was a bit of a "panic", so rarely use them.

I don't use pocket screws either, but if you believe the ads, thats all you need, maybe a thin bead of glue.

To keep the boards level you can use a caul, which is a straight edged or just barely curved board on both side of the boards and clamped together to keep pressure on the surfaces and align the edges. The better the boards are aligned, the less planing or sanding you'll have to do afterward.
http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Cauls.htm


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Old Skhool said:


> Looks like Jorgenson 3/4" with black pipe. Good choice. Try not to be tempted by sale prices on other brands now that you have chosen. Each brand *seems to have a different height and mismatches can create difficulties.* I see they are also the same lengths. That can pay dividends as in the last Woodenthing's picture in post 3.


With pipe clamps you WANT 'mismatches' if you can help it as this lets you *very* easily clamp in more than one direction at the same time. 

1/2" pipe will easily go under the 3/4" stuff and work fine. 


The Pony I-beam clams are even better as they can either be laid down flat on the bottom or stood up right on the top when clamping in two different directions at one time. The same exact size clamp can have either a 'low' or 'high' profile depending on how you tip it.

Example that did not come from youtube:









In that picture I am clamping in three different directions with absolutely no problems...


My clamps look really 'well used' because they are. :smile3:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

raqumup said:


> Wow. Did not want to start a fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You did not start any sort of 'fight' friend. You got good advice from Rebelwork. Someone that actually does this stuff for a living and knows what the hell he is talking about. (you can lump Leo G in that group as well)


You ARE supposed to glue the biscuits. :wink2:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> *Biscuits are for alignment, not strength*.
> 
> 
> 
> They must be set in the slots evenly AND the slots must be dead on level from the same side of all the boards. A spot of glue is all you need, if any, and work from one side down the length. Then glue the other edge and assemble. *The few times I've used them assembly was a bit of a "panic", so rarely use them.*


 
I actually 'believe' the part about you only using them a 'few times'...

:yes:



The rest of what you said (most of it anyway) has not been my experience at all. :no:


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

OnealWoodworking said:


> With pipe clamps you WANT 'mismatches' if you can help it as this lets you *very* easily clamp in more than one direction at the same time.
> 
> 1/2" pipe will easily go under the 3/4" stuff and work fine.
> 
> ...



How you doing Oneal? Yes there are always exceptions because of the large variety of the work that is done. The person that I gave advice to was building their there collection of clamps and made a nice rack for themselves. I wanted to give him "props" with an encouraging word.


The shop that I ran had a large variety of clamps including sets of different lengths of both 1/2" and 3/4" Pony pipe clamps, sets of Jorgenson HD I beam clamps (not called pony), LD Jorgenson band clamps, HD canvas band clamps, C clamps, F style clamps, hand screws ... Yes it is nice to have variety. We became quite efficient with our glue ups and streamlined our methods out of necessity. Storage of the clamped up projects was an issue, we had to adapt. Standard lengths helped here to save space as we used a standing stacking method. 


We were fortunate to have many large FLAT workbenches, glue up tables, and extension tables. Cover with butcher paper, glue, clamp, square assembly, move to temporary storage area, remove clamps, move frames, doors, etc. to regular storage, clamps back to racks, or use. You know, work flow pattern.


Fortunately was able to do most work in the shop and rarely had to work under the conditions shown in your photo. You got to do what you have to do. I do see that yours are well used and you don't buy junk. Professional stuff that has to earn its keep, not act as ornamentation.


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## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

OK, I said that people are sharing their opinions, I did use glue, I just figured out on my own that yes I did go overkill with different ways of joining the boards, I'm glad I had the pocket holes because I only had 2 clamps so the helped with my mistake. This is my first cabinet and I am learning a lot. I meant no glue directly on the biscuit because it took too long and they started to swell before I could finish, but also I used too many so there were several things I did wrong. I like using biscuits. As you say they help keep the boards aligned and less sanding. Best lessons are mistakes, and you won't learn unless you try. I realize some people hate pocket holes, I like them. Now not to say as my woodworking improves and I get more experience, that's not to say I will grow to dislike pocket holes and maybe biscuits, but that's for me to decide for myself. I do live the fact that all of you are so passionate about wood working and share experiences, mistakes, things that worked well. That's what keeps places like this forum alive and it's great. Thank you all for your thoughts


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

In a perfect world all you have to do is clamp simple flat panels. In reality you often have to clamp irregular shaped items or force a bend laminating an arch. This is where you can bend the pipes on clamps.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Questions for O'Neal*

Is this a dedicated face frame clamping setup? If so, do you have more than one for multiple door frames for quantity production? Can you set them aside and clamp others while waiting for the glue to dry or is this a one at a time operation? I see a "right angle corner to register the set up and do you have to check for square afterwards? 
Looks like you have recessed the flat clamps in the top, a cool idea!


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> Is this a dedicated face frame clamping setup? If so, do you have more than one for multiple door frames for quantity production? Can you set them aside and clamp others while waiting for the glue to dry or is this a one at a time operation? I see a "right angle corner to register the set up and do you have to check for square afterwards?
> Looks like you have recessed the flat clamps in the top, a cool idea!



It does remind me of a "Face Frame Table" except in a horizontal position w/o the pneumatic cylinders. I too like the squaring feature.


I've always used 2 Jorgies (HD bar clamp) to do what I think I am seeing. The clamps are placed on a flat surface, tightened, then check the corner to corner measurement. (Frame must be tight against the bars so as to not glue in distortion)


Very fast, easy, and storable. The corner to corner often requires no adjustment, but if it does slightly angle 1 or both clamps and while retightening watch for square. Next. Am I missing something?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

raqumup said:


> Wow. Did not want to start a fight. It's just a clamp question. Everyone has their own opinion and that's what makes the world go around. If we all thought the same way, the world would be a boring place. As long as there was no funny stuff in the glueing and clamping tests that that guy did. I have to say I learned something. I also learned that when joining boards with biscuits, don't use one every 6 inches on a 6' board, and don't put glue on the biscuits, and have plenty of clamps. My biscuits started to swell before I finished putting them in and I only had 2 long clamps. Luckily I had drilled pocket holes in between all the biscuits so I clamped it and tightened the screws and had to work my way down the board. I made it but just barely. Best lessons are learned.


Clamping can make you or break you. I never take clamping lightly. It has to be taken seriously every time you think of building a piece or furniture or cabinet.Often over looked and easily spotted in a build. Understanding which glue, time of glue up and what can be accomplished with the amount of time given with each assembly makes a project a show piece or a closet failure.....


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

And some assembly no glue at all....


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## raqumup (Dec 28, 2014)

Nice stuff rebelwork.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

I've had the set of aluminum clamps (with the threaded rods) shown for probably over 30 years. I should make another set. I have a number of different length sets of threaded rod to vary the clamp size from about 4" square up to 3 X 3 feet. Work great on not only picture frame type clamping, but also as shown. Snug the hex nuts down, then check corners with a square. Any slight out of square can be adjusted by loosening/tightening different corners. For the curious, 2nd pic is finished product. :smile3:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Old Skhool said:


> How you doing Oneal? Yes there are always exceptions because of the large variety of the work that is done. The person that I gave advice to was building their there collection of clamps and made a nice rack for themselves. I wanted to give him "props" with an encouraging word.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You just dogged the wiz out of my favorite workbench. I spent a metric crap load of time on that and you just dogged the piss out of it.

''under the work conditions shown in you photo" :surprise2:

(I am not saying that you are wrong in that assessment and I am not any sort of butthurt about it) :no:



That bench is 'simi' glue resistant, solid as a rock and square as hell and you just went pee all over it! LOL! :grin:

If you got tips on how I can improve what I got there - I got no problem with that and welcome the advice. 






Depending on what 'directions' that I 'need' to push in and the kind of material I am working on AND how 'square' it needs to be when finished - I got other clamps and tables as well.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Is this a dedicated face frame clamping setup? If so, do you have more than one for multiple door frames for quantity production? Can you set them aside and clamp others while waiting for the glue to dry or is this a one at a time operation? I see a "right angle corner to register the set up and do you have to check for square afterwards? Looks like you have recessed the flat clamps in the top, a cool idea!


 I don't see why he would need a different sized jig for every sized door. As long as the door fits on the base he should be able to glue it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Where did I mention "different sizes "...?*



woodnthings said:


> Is this a dedicated face frame clamping setup? If so, *do you have more than one for multiple door frames for quantity production*? Can you set them aside and clamp others while waiting for the glue to dry or is this a one at a time operation? I see a "right angle corner to register the set up and do you have to check for square afterwards?
> Looks like you have recessed the flat clamps in the top, a cool idea!


Different sizes? No, more than one.... they could all be the same size as long as the largest frame fits. If there was only one in a production cabinet shop that would not make much sense....time is money.




hwebb99 said:


> I don't see why he would need a different sized jig for every sized door. As long as the door fits on the base he should be able to glue it.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Different sizes? No, more than one.... they could all be the same size as long as the largest frame fits. If there was only one in a production cabinet shop that would not make much sense....time is money.


 I'm sure he had more than one jig, but it would only require one.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I asked whether there was more than one ........*










A cabinet shop of any significance would have multiple face frame jigs to save time in production.... just my opinion, but I never got an answer. 

Is this gluing setup part of the cabinet shops assembly room?









You wouldn't find this in a home shop, but it is impressive.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Most cabinet shop with multiple employees will have a face frame machine. I'm more use to Ritter but have used others..

Usually 5'x12' but take a lot of room front to back...


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## Kerrys (May 2, 2016)

Rebelwork said:


> Most cabinet shop with multiple employees will have a face frame machine. I'm more use to Ritter but have used others..
> 
> Usually 5'x12' but take a lot of room front to back...


I've spent many a hour standing in front of one of those...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Run across the 12' units all the time for a $1000. :wink2:


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

raqumup said:


> Got my clamps and made a rack today. Thanks for all the advise. So far I am very happy with them.
> View attachment 217393


I have a couple of those long ass HF clamps too..They make nice wall decorations.. I've only needed to use them twice in the past few years. Better to have and need than to need and not have..
Another place to get those Irwin clamps cheap is through cripedistributing.com.. Something like $6 per pair and they do sell the type that don't require threaded pipe..another plus in my book.


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