# Hemlock floors - to sand or not to sand?



## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

Hey folks, I have hemlock floors in the home I recently purchased. There is no Polyurethane on them but apparently it was coated with oil a few years back. This seems to be a pretty delicate wood as we've noticed worn grooves and some chips and wear and tear... Don't know if it's b/c of the lack of poly or just the wood being soft. 

I want to at least fix the issue you see in the pics. The area is at the front entrance. Should I lightly sand the area? If so, should I start with something like an 80 grit them go finer, up to say 120? Then add the oil? 

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

hemlock is very soft. what is the white? paint? or just a discoloration?

I would start sanding with a finer grit, say 180 with a ros. i would go coarser only if it is not taking the white off. lightly sand the entire floor then. i would not oil. it needs a very strong finish in my opinion. check with your local paint store or Sherwin William for that.


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

Thanks for the response. I am a big-time novice so i am not familiar with a "ros" 

Not sure if it is discolouration... seems to be bare wood exposed. definitely not paint


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

Nevermind! Random Orbital Sander!

I have an electric square head sander. Will that work?


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

So what kind of a finish? Poly?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

a square sander will work but take longer. and you have to keep it running with the grain. i think most floor coatings today have some amount of poly


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

I can't see myself using even a belt sander on my hands and knee's doing all that floor. I would rent a floor sander that you can use standing up. It will make the job a lot easier/faster.

And by the way, your "square headed" sander is most likely a "finishing orbital" sander. It's slower removing material than a ROS, neither of which you need to go with the grain when using.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I can't see doing that with a hand sander either. If you're not experienced with floor sanders, exercise extreme caution. A drum type floor sander sands very agressivley by design can do a great deal of damage in the wrong hands. (Don't ask me how I know). There is a random orbit floor sander that is probably safer, but will be much slower than the more aggressive drum sander. http://www6.homedepot.com/tool-truck-rental/Random_Orbit_Floor_Sander/07163A/index.html


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

Thanks guys.. Keep in mind that I am only going to sand an area that is about 8 feet by 4 feet. Would your comments still stand? 

And should I go from courser to finer grit (80 to 120 for example?)?


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Siwash said:


> Thanks guys.. Keep in mind that I am only going to sand an area that is about 8 feet by 4 feet. Would your comments still stand?
> 
> And should I go from courser to finer grit (80 to 120 for example?)?




That's entirely up to you. You can spend a few hours on your hands and knees or do it in probably 20min or less standing up.

Our flooring sub at work says they only sand to 120 for new flooring. I don't see why you'd need to go any higher for refinishing, although you may have to start a little lower depending on the existing floor.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Hemlock is a softwood but a relatively hard one. It's typically locally grown and harvested, making it economical and environmentally friendly. Summer growth is softer and will wear away faster than the winter growth, as you can see and feel. In order for sanding to get to all the surface, you need to remove a lot of material. Some wood floors are intended to be a bit rustic rather than polished, fits in better with an active household and old distressed floors are cherished by their owners for the character they develop.

There is no need to do any sanding. If you do, you are looking at a significant amount of work, moving all the furniture, several coats of a finish, special equipment and you will lose the "character" of your floor. You should be looking at maintaining your existing floor, not refinishing. All you need to do is apply floor oil as per instructions. These products are well known around the world by aficionados of old floors. http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/instructions/botanical/Floor-Maintenance-Botanical.pdf


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

Hammer1 said:


> Hemlock is a softwood but a relatively hard one. It's typically locally grown and harvested, making it economical and environmentally friendly. Summer growth is softer and will wear away faster than the winter growth, as you can see and feel. In order for sanding to get to all the surface, you need to remove a lot of material. Some wood floors are intended to be a bit rustic rather than polished, fits in better with an active household and old distressed floors are cherished by their owners for the character they develop.
> 
> There is no need to do any sanding. If you do, you are looking at a significant amount of work, moving all the furniture, several coats of a finish, special equipment and you will lose the "character" of your floor. You should be looking at maintaining your existing floor, not refinishing. All you need to do is apply floor oil as per instructions. These products are well known around the world by aficionados of old floors. http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/instructions/botanical/Floor-Maintenance-Botanical.pdf


Thank you. Just read the info from the link. Says to use 400 to 600 grit lightly applied. I am assuming just a hand application? I just bought some oil from Lowes. I forget the brand but it's one of the big ones. Is it advisable to stick to something like Sutherland Welles?

thanks


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

The instructions are for new floors, read the ones for re-oiling. Find a hidden spot, one board, in a closet or one that will be under a piece of furniture. Do the entire board stopping precisely on the end joints. If anything doesn't go right, it's better to have one individual board, rather than a patch be out of sync with the rest of the floor. This is your practice piece to test adherence of the oil and check the color and appearance. 

Follow the directions. Wash the floor with a solution of water, TSP and Dirtex, don't soak it wet, just damp sponge to clean. You should see quite a difference and the surface will be a bit dull. Allow to completely dry. Apply the oil. Do not leave a wet layer on the surface, follow the directions. Allow to dry, Lightly sand with fine paper to remove any dust nibs. By lightly, I mean 320 grit, one to three passes, no power tools, just by hand. There won't be a built up film like with varnishes and four strokes will probably sand right through. Apply a second coat, the end.

You didn't provide a link to the product you found at Lowes. We don't know what it is. That can be an issue since you need the product to penetrate and cure on your existing floor. This is why you do a practice board. The Sutherland Wells product is a tung oil. That's not the same as linseed oil which you do not want to use. The word "oil" means nothing in woodworking since there are many and they cannot be used for the same applications. "Tung oil" is another confusing term since many, so called, tung oil products have no tung oil. It's all marketing. 

Sutherland Wells floor oil is as I said, well known for old, oil finish type floors. They are not the same as varnished floors. It's a different look, different appearance, not as resistent to stains, scratches and wear. That's the beauty of an oiled floor. It's easy to wash and reapply the oil when you want. You can't do that with varnish, polyurethane, and other film forming finishes. They need a complete sanding and they will need it sometime. Some oils can have a long lingering odor, especially ones with a petroleum solvent. The SW is citrus solvent. I'd rather have that in a house that will still be occupied.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The white spots is water damage where the finish is gone. If you are going down the road of sanding I would thoroughly sand it with a floor sander removing everything. A light sanding will probably result in the color being blotchy all over. The wood darkens some from sunlight so a partial sanding would expose some new wood. The only easy way out would be to re-oil the floor just like it is. Personally I think the floor would look great and worth the trouble to refinish and use a polyurethane floor finish this time.


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## mikeswoods (May 18, 2009)

Heaven only knows what finishes were used on that---might be a wax--then someone tried a hard finish --which did not bond--

Steve is offering good advice---sand it clean and apply a new finish.

You may be pleasantly surprised at the cost of having a pro do the work--around here, about $2.00 a square foot==sanded and finished.


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## skipper2 (Apr 20, 2011)

*Hemlock floors*

Before you do anything else, find out how thick the hemlock is. Then you can make an informed decision. Refinishing should be done by a skilled professional with experience in this wood. Good Lu:icon_smile:ck!


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## mikeswoods (May 18, 2009)

I finished one set of floors--my own (many years ago)---and learned the hard way that there is a huge learning curve involved with those floor sanders----


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

Wow! Not sure I want to touch the floors now! A little intimidating... 

As I said originally, the problem area is about 8 feet by 4 feet.. beyond that, I an not touching these floors... I have no idea how water damage could have occurred... the story I got from the agent is that they had a dog and it scratched the crap out of the area..

Maybe I should take some more pics.

Anyhow, I still don't know if I should sand or not... differing opinions here


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## MEP1 (Aug 14, 2015)

There are some light scratches that could have been done by a dog's claws, but the vast majority of that is not scratches.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

If you "were" going to sand, you really need to do the whole room of the affected area. Very hard matching up an existing look to a small area refinished.

You could always throw a nice rug over the area.


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## AJH (Apr 11, 2013)

Before you open up that can of stuff you bought at lowes you might have to make arrangements to stay somewhere.Nasty stuff that's in some polyurethanes.Even the water based stuff.
I have red oak floors in my house we used Rubio Mono coat.Zero Voc. It was expensive but I thought I was worth it.I didn't want to Poisen my family.


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

Chamfer said:


> If you "were" going to sand, you really need to do the whole room of the affected area. Very hard matching up an existing look to a small area refinished.
> 
> You could always throw a nice rug over the area.


Not going to sand the entire room right now... will either just ry local oil treatment or go with your rug suggestion! 

What could have caused that? Just general wear and tear b/c it is at the from entrance?

I will post a pic of the Lowes product this morning...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Siwash said:


> Not going to sand the entire room right now... will either just ry local oil treatment or go with your rug suggestion!
> 
> What could have caused that? Just general wear and tear b/c it is at the from entrance?
> 
> I will post a pic of the Lowes product this morning...


Where water gets through the finish it causes the finish to lift off, even an oil finish. The white spots are just raw wood now. If it has a oil finish it takes a lot more maintenance to keep it up. A couple times a year you have to remove the furniture from the room and apply another coat of the oil. This is what makes the polyurethane finish more appealing. Still, annually to maintain it you remove the furniture from the room and use a floor wax. It moisturizes the finish so it doesn't get too hard and crack to where it allows water to get to the wood.


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## MEP1 (Aug 14, 2015)

Notice how the finish is missing from the softer areas of the wood? That tells me the problem is just about anything except wear. It could have been poor prep, or the finish couldn't adhere there, or if it was oiled it soaked in more and didn't protect in those areas, or too aggressive cleaning agents, or if it gets sunlight on it the wood might have deteriorated right under the finish.


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

This is the product ... hope you can see it. 

http://varathane.ca/oil-based/natural-oil-finish/Y6631


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## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

MEP1 said:


> Notice how the finish is missing from the softer areas of the wood? That tells me the problem is just about anything except wear. It could have been poor prep, or the finish couldn't adhere there, or if it was oiled it soaked in more and didn't protect in those areas, or too aggressive cleaning agents, or if it gets sunlight on it the wood might have deteriorated right under the finish.


So what would you do then? Thanks


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## MEP1 (Aug 14, 2015)

I'd try oiling one section as someone suggested.


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