# Any shaving horse owners out there?



## BuckeyeHughes

I have been trying to get my work into the more "traditional" style for the past year or so. I have a new itch to build a shaving horse and was wondering if any of you had one or had some practical ideas on them. I would like to build my own so that I can customize it to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Pictures of yours would def be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jason


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## Capt Crutch

I've also thought it would be cool to have one, though I don't yet. There's a plan for one in a Taunton book I have on bending wood...


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## Daren

I will post a picture of my new one, when I make it. I sold my old one as "decoration", no kidding, it is setting in someones foyer (or someplace). I refinished a piece of furniture for a customer and they saw my shaving horse and asked "How much for that ?":huh:. It was ugly and used, but it was made of walnut and through tenoned. I guess it was worth more to them as rustic decor as it was to me as a tool at the time.
I would suggest getting all of Roy Underhill's books for a start, if you don't already have them, great reading IMO. http://www.amazon.com/Woodwrights-Shop-Practical-Traditional-Woodcraft/dp/0807840823


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## Capt Crutch

Daren said:


> I would suggest getting all of Roy Underhill's books


I love watching that guy work. He makes it look so EASY and he gets results so fast. Heck, I'd be happy to get a few tips from him on _sharpening_. His tools are always scary sharp.


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## Daren

Capt Crutch said:


> I love watching that guy work. Heck, I'd be happy to get a few tips from him on _sharpening_.


Yea, sharp enough to cut himself *every* time he makes something :laughing:. Not to turn this thread into Roy Underhill talk, but in one of his books (I don't remember, I have read them all) he tells a funny "logging" story. 

I will try to get the details right. There is a fallen oak tree by the river, a flood undercut the bank and it fell over to die. It did not fall in the river, it fell the other way onto the bank. Roy and his brother take their lunch and some tools and are going to log the thing and bring back what wood they can.

They lay there axes and whatever else and their food on the trunk of the tree out of the mud and take a big crosscut saw to remove the top...well when they cut the top off the heavy rootball stood the tree right back up. Launching their tools and lunch like a catapult into the river :laughing:


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## stuart

that is quite a flip there... hahahah


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## BuckeyeHughes

Daren I would appreciate some pics of yours when you complete it. I'm sure others would as well. One of the main things I was wondering about was how to dimension the thing based on your height. Any thoughts you have on yours would be useful.

Jason


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## fanback

I have one ...use one . I'll try to get a pic up in a bit. Michael


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## BuckeyeHughes

fanback, did you make your own or purchase one? I am wondering how to size the dimensions for my height to make it most comfortable.


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## fanback

*shave horse*

Jason; Sorry for the delay......I'm posting a photo, and a link to the one I use. I did not make mine. Certainly could have....but at the time I was in a rush to demonstrate at a show....and decided to just buy this one. When I demonstrate at a show...the booth fee is free, so that paid for the horse. It's adjustable in the ways that it needs to be. If you need more specifics, maybe I can answer those questions.


Link:http://www.countryworkshops.org/shavingmule.html


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## BuckeyeHughes

Thanks fanback. That looks pretty close to what I have been thinking about. I was wondering about the dimensions. Would you prefer the leg height to be different based on your height? I guess what I am mostly looking for is ideas on how to make it the most comfortable I can. No rush on building it, its one of those things I have been thinking about for a while.


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## firefighteremt153

This may be a dumb question, but what do you use a shave horse for?


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## Gerry KIERNAN

http://trod.org/projects/woodworking/shaving_horse.html

If I have entered this right it should take you right to one.

Gerry


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## fanback

In the photo....that padded seat slides forward and back. Make the legs a bit long , and take a little off till you get the height perfect to taste.

Primary use for me is making chair splindles, using a spokeshave.
It's basically a foot operated vise...leaving your hands free to work.

Michael


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## talkingamoeba

Hello, I have all of Roy's books and built a shaving horse based on his book instruction, from red oak. I screwed up on the dumb head though and am currently re-doing that part. So what I have now is a 6 foot red oak bench with a hole in it.


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## trugger

*Shave Horse*

I am a Traditional Sussex trugmaker. Trugs are handmade baskets that go back 200 years. Originating from East Sussex, England. I use a shaving horse. My horse is very basic and easy to make. If you would like me to send some photos please let me know.


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## goingenoan

Don't know if you are still looking for ideas but Lee Valley has a set of plans for a shaving horse that you can buy for $14. Here's the link:


http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51100&cat=1,46158,42665&ap=1

I too am interested in building one and hope to find the time soon to work on this project.:blink: Good luck with your endeavor.

__________________________________________________

Work to live, not live to work!!!


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## bmaddox

I too, have one based off of Roy Underhill's plans. It's made of white oak and has preformed quite well for the last six years. Mizer and I built it before I moved to the far side of Nashville. But it's still enough weight to be able to handle without much strain. I use it for every thing from wooden rake making to roughing out wood for my spring pole lathe. The Dumb head was a twist of luck, I made it from poplar(Tulip poplar) and holds like a pitt bull, the pivot pin is an old piece of a vice handle and the riser is up six and a half inches off of the seat, the legs are splayed and about twenty four inches long. A few folks have wanted to borrow it for basket making demo's and just plain stick butchering with a draw knife. But I guess over all ....I just love it!.


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## Jackfre

*Brian Boggs horse*

Had a write up, with plans, in the 12/99, #139 issue of Fine Woodworking. Lie-Nielsen sells that design now if you want to take a look at it.


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## Chris Adkins

I have always wanted a shaving horse but have never got around to building one....for one think I just don't have room in my shop for one. I definitely think that it would be handy to have around though.


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## MuseumWood

I have one that I made in the early 90's (1990's, guys:no. I used the basic design from Roy Underhill's book. Started with a tulip poplar log about 5 or 6 feet long and a foot in diameter. Look for straight grain!:icon_smile: Split the planks and had most of the prep work done in one afternoon.:laughing: I used a poplar sapling for the legs to save some time and work.:icon_cool:

Made mine with 3 legs for stability on uneven ground. Even have a holdfast on the back to hold pieces for boring and such.:thumbsup:

Got to be my favorite tool. Disassembles easily since it's held together with red oak pegs and the legs just go into tapered holes. I take it to elementary schools for demonstrations.


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## Stick

firefighteremt153 said:


> This may be a dumb question, but what do you use a shave horse for?


 I'm with you... I still don't know....


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## MuseumWood

A shaving horse (or schnitzelbank - shaving bench) is a foot operated vise to hold wood while you work with a draw knife or spoke shave. You can do a lot with one and I keep finding new uses. There are two basic designs - English and German. The English style has two arms holding the head while the German has the dumbkopf :laughingn a single arm through the center.

Which you choose is a matter of taste - of which there is no disputing!:thumbsup: The English has a limit on the width of the work you can hold _ the separation of the arms, while the German has the arm in the middle and you have to work around it.

Each woodworker has to make theirs to fit (Ergonomics with a vengeance!). The critical dimensions are taken when seated: Sole of the foot to the knee; Knee to the hip; bottom to the elbow and elbow to the hands. It makes sense when you see someone working on one.:huh:

Mine can have the legs pulled and the thing leaned against the wall, so it only takes up floor space when it is in use. If you are doing traditional woodworking you can't do without one. Coopers, wheelwrights, woodwrights and even turners :laughing:use them to round off billets before putting them on the lathe.


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## AUBrian

I built one several years ago, when I was trying to get into traditional archery and bow making. But mine is just simple pine, 4 legs, and I find myself using it more and more for varied projects. It's nice not to have to loosen clamps to turn a project 1/4 turn, and it actually only has a loose pivot point that keeps the dumb head from falling all the way down, and instead uses the bottom edge of the slot for where the pressure is primarily focused.

My supply list:
1 - 2"x10", 8 foot length (This is the seat and the ramp)
2 - 2x4, 8 foot length (the dumb head, post, and foot ramp)
1 - 3/4" dowel, 1 foot length (You really only need about 6" of it, if your slot is tight around the dead head post)
1 - 2" Round Pine Handrail, 8 foot length (These were the legs, and worked great)

Most of the build was simply eyeballed, or carved from a comfort standpoint. If I had it to do again, the only thing I would change is to make it right handed instead of ambidextrous. I very very rarely use the left side of mine, and I should have made the right leg notch a little deeper and the foot pedal more for the right leg. Ah well, I'll use that if I build another


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## peerawit

Thank mr.Fanback The sawhorse is what I'm looking for


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## MuseumWood

BuckeyeHughes, Did you suspect there were this many responsive shaving horse riders out here? There are two basic styles. The English bodger with two shafts holding the head and the German style with a single shaft in the center. Each has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Depends on what you are doing and are used to!:icon_smile:

Check out the Roy Underhill books. You'll get all you'll need to make a shaving horse, plus a lot more.

The horse must:thumbsup: fit the worker, not the other way around. Fit the leg length, knee to pedal, riser height and ramp angle to suit your body and style. If nobody else is comfortable, so what!:laughing:

Put the legs in tapered holes so they can be pulled. Makes storage better and easier transportation!

My horse has three legs. Makes it more stable on uneven ground! Didn't plan it that way, the main plank twisted a bit, so I encountered, adapted and overcame!

Made mine to the German style, from a tulip poplar log about 1-foot in diameter and about 5 - 6 feet long. The planks were riven with wedges and gluts (wooden wedges). Far easier than sawing! Just requires a straight-grained log which tulip poplar tends to be. Split off two planks about 3 to 4 inches thick.- one is the main and the other becomes the riser and ramp. The remainder is das dumkopf (Yes, dumb head!:blink: It, not you!:no and legs. Decide how big the head is to be, saw in from each side to where the shaft is to be, take a deep breath and split the waste off! Shave the legs to suite and fit them to the tapered holes. Get some red or white oak and rive pegs to hold the ramp and riser and for a pivot for the dumkopf. All this is much easier if you have a shaving horse, of course!:shifty:

Then get to shaving!:icon_smile:


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## bmaddox

Way too go folks! I use mine for many things from extra seat in the shop to bowl and spoon carving ,wooden rake and hay fork making,roughing in wood for the spring pole lathe to just plane ole stick butchering! ( LOL !). My bench area of the horse ,well I didn't make it large enough to allow for the use of Doweling plates or Hold fast's, but they have their own bench for that. My Grandson really enjoy's flailing away with his little wooden mallet helping out his Pap-paw with the making of pegs.
Out towards the end of the "Riser"(?) I've installed two pegs to help keep the stahl's or rake handle's from swinging out at times and keep from "whacking" some one close by in the Knee caps!. Even though I'm keeping constant pressure on the treadle board I felt as though this was a nessessary safety addition for the viewing public.


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## MuseumWood

A very neat solution. Proper Job!:thumbsup: OK to file off the serial numbers and use the idea?


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## bmaddox

"Yes Sir!":thumbsup: Help Yourself,:icon_smile: It's not all that intrusive(?) and easily removable but it sure helps save the day when the public is in close watching.


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## Oak Tree Woodworks

I am a bit embarrassed to say I purchased mine as well... got a deal at 3 Rivers Archery... it was a "demo" model. I purchased it back in '04. Made me many a nice bow, back when Yew was $100 a stave.


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## cajunotexas

*cajunotexas*

If a feller always wanted a shaving horse, why doesn't he build one? I have thought about it for a few years, just ordered plans for one pictured on 1st page of postings, and will build it slowly. I plan on slight modification on the adjustable platform. The notches could break as shown. I'm going to use three thicknesses of materials - center verticle grain and two ourside - glued on - horizonal grain. This will significantly strengthen the notches and almost guarantee that none will break.

Later


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## cajunotexas

*cajunotexas*

I am going to purchase a draw knife to use with the shaving horse I plan to build. Debarking cedar and oak limbs for making primitive chairs with be the use of the draw knife. What size draw knife should I purchase for the intended purpose?

Later:no:


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## glh17

It seems a good shave horse ought to at least have a mirror on it and the real ones won't hardly hold still long enough for a decent shave.


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## H. A. S.

It's been years since using a shaving horse, still have the drawknives, though. The horse is so much better than a bench vise.:thumbsup:


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## H. A. S.

glh17 said:


> It seems a good shave horse ought to at least have a mirror on it and the real ones won't hardly hold still long enough for a decent shave.



:laughing::laughing:


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## kones

*reclaimed shave horse*

im new here & came here because im building a shaving horse.mine will be made from reclaimed lumber.the bench is a verry old piece of oak i found 5'x3.5''x14''.the legs will be 4x4 pine.many designs on the web feature old english style & german styles,the old american colonial style is what im after,just looks more heavy duty.


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## cajunotexas

*Shaving Horse and New wood table vice*

Hi All,

It has been a while since I have communicated on this site. I have now a neat Shaving Mule, similar to the one which was pictured. I did not want to chance building one from the picture - which I usually do. I ordered the plans and made some minor improvements. I build mine out of 1" oak instead of 2" pine. I glued the front portion of the stretcher on to a 1x4 oak. I made a convex curve instead of a concave one. The knotched riser I made of mesquite for contrast. I used an old tractor seat which is adjustable instead of the foam one.

Also I have upgraded my shop table with the latest in vice technology. Len Hovarter has invented a vice which differs significantly from the vices of the last 600 years. All prior vices have had screws for the take-up. Len's vice has two 1" rods (round stock) which do not require oiling. Watch his video it will blow your mind. Also Len and I have been communicating about slight improvements. If you phone him he will share the improvements with you. Mention Shelby the Texas Man.

If anyone is interested in his vice you can see them on www.hovartercustomvice.com . His invention is awesome!!!


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## Mizer

What are you going to do with your shaving horse? I could not get that link to work.


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## autre

http://www.hovartercustomvise.com/


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## Neondog

Newbie here. Almost no woodworking experience but I love wood and working with my hands.

I was given a good sized eastern red cedar today, about thirty foot tall and fifteen inches in diameter. It was killed by a wildfire last summer but is still upright. The bark burned away and the remaining wood is spotted with charred areas less than one eighth inch deep.

I'm planning to use about five foot of the trunk for the big pieces of two shaving horses (one for myself and one for the friend that is giving me the tree) and most of the limbs/branches for walking staffs and atlatls as well as the smaller pieces of the shaving horses.

Any chance I could get a decent split with wedges or should I look for a way to get it sawed into planks?


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## Mizer

Neondog said:


> Newbie here. Almost no woodworking experience but I love wood and working with my hands.
> 
> I was given a good sized eastern red cedar today, about thirty foot tall and fifteen inches in diameter. It was killed by a wildfire last summer but is still upright. The bark burned away and the remaining wood is spotted with charred areas less than one eighth inch deep.
> 
> I'm planning to use about five foot of the trunk for the big pieces of two shaving horses (one for myself and one for the friend that is giving me the tree) and most of the limbs/branches for walking staffs and atlatls as well as the smaller pieces of the shaving horses.
> 
> Any chance I could get a decent split with wedges or should I look for a way to get it sawed into planks?


ERC would make a beautiful horse but it would almost undoubtably squeak something terrible.


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## MuseumWood

NeonDog,
I am going to sound pretty negative here.
Eastern red cedar can be spectacular, but the grain can be ropey and convoluted with lots of knots. What you see on the outside reflects the interior. Riving is generally not going to result in straight planks.
If you have a rare straight-grained log - Congratulations!:thumbsup:
I am not too sure about the strength of the wood. You may have some areas that will break too easily. The bore holes for the legs are near the edges of the seat plank and the ramp, where it joins the main plank, is generally thin.
I made mine from tulip poplar in the early 90's and it is holding up well with red oak pegs holding it together.
Also, some people react adversely to the extractives in woods like cedar. Since you may spend a lot of time on a shaving horse, you will have considerable contact, even through clothes.


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## Neondog

@ Mizer, squeaks shouldn't be a problem, I am extremely hard of hearing. Hard to communicate without an aid in my hear-hole.

@ MuseumWood, Thanks for the warnings. The tree looks pretty straight on the outside. I guess I could start with two five foot section trying to split the lesser and if that fails take the better one to a mill.

As far as strength is concerned, I plan to go thick on the bench, maybe three inches and stagger the hind legs putting one about six inches ahead of the other with their insertion points just a few inches off center and angled out at ten or fifteen degrees.

As for the reactive juices, I could add a removable seating pad if needed. Thanks again. I'll update when I get one split. Might be a few weeks.


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## woodbutcher360

That looks like a bench my Grandfather had. I was about 5 the last time I saw it in Pa.
He made a bench when he came to Md that he used to sharpen his saws on. It also held his cobbler's lasts.


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## MuseumWood

Neondog,
Go gettem!:thumbsup: You can always use some beeswax or tallow to eliminate the squeeks. Just don't get it where the dumbhead and ramp have to provide friction!:laughing:


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## Mizer

Neondog said:


> @ Mizer, squeaks shouldn't be a problem, I am extremely hard of hearing. Hard to communicate without an aid in my hear-hole.
> 
> @ MuseumWood, Thanks for the warnings. The tree looks pretty straight on the outside. I guess I could start with two five foot section trying to split the lesser and if that fails take the better one to a mill.
> 
> As far as strength is concerned, I plan to go thick on the bench, maybe three inches and stagger the hind legs putting one about six inches ahead of the other with their insertion points just a few inches off center and angled out at ten or fifteen degrees.
> 
> As for the reactive juices, I could add a removable seating pad if needed. Thanks again. I'll update when I get one split. Might be a few weeks.


I also do not want to seem negative but I have built several shaving horses and ERC would be the very last wood that I would use to build one. Not knocking cedar, in fact I have a whole room in my house built with it. There are many great uses for cedar but IMHO a shaving horse is not one of them. Among the reasons that you have been given by myself and Museum (which you did acknowledge that you have little experience with wood and seemed to be looking for advice) ERC will be softer than most any wood that you will use with the horse and it will also tend to get very slick, especially at the points where you are trying to hold stuff, making it not very fun to use. My advice would be save the cedar for a furniture project and hunt down a red oak log. Most any sawmill would sell you one if you told them what you are doing. Of course you can do what you want (and we will still be friends) If you decide to go ahead with it I would have it sawn instead of trying to split unless it is very straight grain. Knotty cedar does not cleave very well.


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## Neondog

Okay, I dropped the tree Saturday and cut two six foot sections from the bottom of the trunk. All (thirty?) of the good sized branches were cut down to about seven feet and tossed in the bed of my truck along with the trunk pieces. The wood does seem soft (easy cutting) and fairly weak. I'm now thinking that IF it will split decently, I'll use the entire best side, bore some leg holes into it and use walnut or hickory (from same source) for the legs, dumnhead etc.

It'll be heavy I know but I don't plan to move it around much if any.


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## Mizer

I hope it goes well for you. Take some pics along the way.


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## firemedic

I just started one today myself. Pulled a 3" thick pine blank out of the junk pile and got to swinging the axe and adze a but to blow off some steam...

So I'll be watching as ya go for when ever I get back to mine :smile:


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## Neondog

*Splitting Cedar*

I got the lesser of the two sections split down the center. It is a little wavy and there is about eighteen degrees of twist end to end but I still think it will be something to play with. Just can't stand seeing so much wood pushed into big piles and burned.

The larger section (lower six foot of trunk) had more limbs coming out of it and may not split as well. Took a few pics but not sure of the preferred way to post them. Is it best to attach in the thread or is linking to an album better? I'm more accustomed to using Photobucket.


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## Mizer

I think the preferred way to post an image is through the site itself. Just use the paper clip icon button in the tool bar and then find your pic on your computer (if you need to create a file on your computer, put your pic in it, then you can select from that file) Then you will need to select "upload" in the lower right hand corner. Give it a few seconds, then go back to paper clip icon and select the attachment(s) and it will then appear in your post as an attachment. If you need more help let me know.


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## Neondog

First glimpse inside the trunk. I picked up the wedge at an antique store last week. Needs to be cleaned up a bit.


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## Mizer

Looks like you did a good job on splitting!


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## hoppscat

*looking for expertise*

Hello! I have been looking online for information on a shave horse I found in the barn but haven't found too much. Most people talk about Roy Underhill's design and i can't find one that looks like mine. 
Despite how it looks it seems solid so I plan to fix it up to be able to use it for holding onto odd shaped carving tasks but don't want to do anything to it that would ruin it. Specifically, I have two questions:
First, does the design look familiar to anyone? I know I have to make a replacement foot treadle and would like to make it appropriate to type. I would also like to know if there are other components missing? 

Second, there are wooden pins protruding from different locations. Any idea what they were for? My plan is to clean it up and finish it with some preservative so I don't know if I should glue the pins in prior to sanding or just remove them and leave the holes empty.

Thanks in advance for your help with my questions.


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