# Joinery options for outdoor cedar table



## ol104 (Dec 7, 2012)

Hello all - a couple weeks ago, we had a decent wind storm that decided to lift up our patio table and deposit it onto the other side of our backyard.

Honestly i was not saddened by this since the wife bought it at a yard sale for $20 probably 7 years ago. Money well spent but definitely time to upgrade.

I am making the new table out of air dried cedar purchased from my local wood supplier (i.e. guy with a portable sawmill and a huge yard to air dry the lumber in).

Basic plan is to go with thick legs (3.5" x 3.5") and then true 1" x 4" stretchers at the top. I would prefer to not have any type of stretchers or bracing at the bottom of table for aethetics and so it is easy to get chairs in and out of...wanting a clean, modern look with no joinery showing.

I believe M&T joints will be the strongest, but i am pretty inexperienced at them and would hate to ruin the lumber on sloppy work $$. Do you guys think titebondIII and bluekote Kreg pockets screws will be sufficient? The wife gave a subtle hint that she wants the table done by our 4th of July cookout...

any suggestions are appreciated...


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## AJH (Apr 11, 2013)

I think you will need more than pocket screws for a long last table that doesn't wobble.It may be okay for the first year.How about those corner brackets that attach the stretchers to the legs under the corners and pocket screws?
You could always add a center stretcher later if you just use the mechanical fasteners.C
I make a fair amount of outdoor stuff from cypress what did you get white of red?


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

I'd use mortise and tenons, especially outdoors man. Pocket screws are not gonna hold up in that application. Pick up some cheap framing lumber and practice a couple M&T's. it's really not that hard once you get the hang of it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't think I agree that pocket screws won't hold up.....properly placed, with enough of them they would likely be ok, however I agree there are better options. M&T would be my preference, but dowelled joints would be another option. Or just get a festool domino. Lol


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## ol104 (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I have some pretty decent size leg cutoffs that I will practice my M&T technique. I have also thought about trying to borrow a Domino from someone at my local woodworker club but don't know him that well and not sure I would let a stranger borrow a $900 piece of equipment.

There is actually going to be a decent amount of cross bracing going on between the stretchers. I have attached (hopefully) a picture of what I want the top design to look like. The only way I can determine to get that design is to have a number of cross braces underneath the table to attached the top pieces to.

I am thinking that with the amount of cross bracing, the pocket screws and glue may be okay but I am going to get some M&T mockups practiced before making the final decision...

anyone have thoughts on how to get this table top design while keeping all fasteners underneath??


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

Sketch of method taught to me.
Brace is screwed and glued, 45 kerf in center of bracket done with dado tilted over.
Brace is same width as apron, kerf drawn too deep in sketch but you get the idea.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

The way those boards are spaced, it would appear to me that they are attached to some type of substrate. Not how I would do it, but that's what the pic looks like to me. I would use regular old glue lam joints on the 4 sections of parallel boards, and make the butt joints with a full hardwood spline & glue. Then seal the crap out of it and pray it doesn't move lol


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

ol104 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys. I have some pretty decent size leg cutoffs that I will practice my M&T technique. I have also thought about trying to borrow a Domino from someone at my local woodworker club but don't know him that well and not sure I would let a stranger borrow a $900 piece of equipment.
> 
> There is actually going to be a decent amount of cross bracing going on between the stretchers. I have attached (hopefully) a picture of what I want the top design to look like. The only way I can determine to get that design is to have a number of cross braces underneath the table to attached the top pieces to.
> 
> ...


personally, here is where I would think the pocket screws would be beneficial. I would think that several stringers under the top in a grid work would be an option. I would think If you can get 3 screws per top board you would be ok, Since it is an out door table it will be exposed to the elements and you will have movement. the spacing and the screws would allow for this.

for the aprons and legs. I would think M&T with honched (sp) tenons would be a good paring.


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