# Almost...



## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

I had seen a video from the Naked Turner on YouTube and decided I wanted to try the Celtic knot setup for a coffee mug. Sadly, I learned after the fact that my equipment was not as accurate as I had thought (NOTHING LINED UP!)and, adding insult to injury, the piece decided to split as I was testing the fit of the stainless steel insert for the coffee mug. Anyway, let's all have a laugh at the pathetic attempt and hope for a better one next time around! :laughing:

Blank is red cedar with maple inserts.


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

Alignment can be kept by not cutting the blank all the way through..


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## bond3737 (Nov 13, 2009)

Theres nothin like a pathetic attempt! I make em all the time but just makes those ones that work out the way ya planned that much sweeter just remember the phrase- thats not a flaw its a feature!... gotta learn to tell the turnin story kinda like a fisherman. Well see this is a tree that was struck by lightning I tried super hard to integrate the split wood into the finished product etc etc looks like a fun project happy turnin, 
Bond


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Yup! Exactly. I knew my setup was not prime but tried anyway. Had not done anything like this before and had a good time doing it. I will hunker down and rethink where I may have gone wrong before I give it another go. My wife thought it looked awesome despite things not lining up perfectly before the split.

It really has been a long time since I did anything beyond a pen order and thought it might be a good way to get beyond pens now that I have my Grizzly. Guess the wood had other ideas after butchering it like I did last night. Still, it gave me a good idea what eastern red cedar will tolerate and I will give another go on Sunday. Would do it tomorrow but got familial obligations which take me away from my shop. Oh well...guess keeping the family happy and the parents who brought me into this world happy will buy some karma points.
@Gary: I think that that was exactly where I failed at this. I should have followed the youtube videop I saw and done the same thing. I guess that is what I get for thinkin' on my own, huh?
@bond3737: nice to know I am in good company! I really do not think it was a pathetic attempt, though. While I LOVE a great story, I love a learning experience even more. I have done nothing more than pens for the last several years due to my setup at the time, but I am branching out now thanks to having decent tools and a lathe behind me. While this was a frustrating experience, I am not letting the knowledge and experience escape me. I have had several people tell me that, once I perfect this particular project, they want to buy one from me. So, for this particular project, I will let the $$$ be my carrot and keep on turning!

Still, it is very comforting and reassuring to know that I am not the only one who has come up against this sort of frustrating issue.

I will make another attempt Sunday and report back. Thanks for the backing. Feels rather lonely here in Hemet without anyone for a mentor all these years.


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## saculnhoj (May 18, 2015)

Put chalk on the stainless steel. Insert it gently and twist it. It will leave chalk on the inside where it's high. Do this about a zillion times and you get a perfect fit. OK maybe a dozen times. After I get a snug fit I take a hair more off just in case there's any wood movement.


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## Jerry Maske (Dec 29, 2013)

I admire you for taking it on. I've seen the video and believe it's a wonderful project. Too many things going on just now to take a shot at it, but it's high up on my want to do list. You've gotten good advice, particularly about not cutting all the way through, as well as the "Feature" comment; that's wonderful

I do a lot of decorative knotting and wood burning Celtic knotting on rims of my bowls, so this is right up my alley.

Having said that, I noticed a mistake in the knot itself, which isn't your fault, in the second picture. ALL the lines should appear in a strict "Over, under, over" pattern. They don't and I can't figure out why. I know the process well enough that it should have come out. Maybe it's the split. Anyway, keep at it. This isn't rocket science but you do need to keep things lined up pretty tight.

When you take your next shot at it, make sure you photograph it and send it to us. We really can learn from your progress. Thanks for sharing.

Jerry


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Will do.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Well, second attempt is going much better. I didn't have any more of the maple I had re-sawed for the knot pieces, so I left that feature out this time around. Still working on the finish before parting off and finishing the bottom, but I am happier this time around with it. I did manage to keep the blank walls at the neck thicker than the last attempt which helped. With all of the misalignment of the first attempt, the thinnest part just below the steel insert lip was barely thicker than some of the balsa sheeting on my R/C airplanes.


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## bond3737 (Nov 13, 2009)

looks great brother! where did you get the insert? may have to make my gal one of those, shes a coffee nut


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

bond3737 said:


> looks great brother! where did you get the insert? may have to make my gal one of those, shes a coffee nut


Oddly enough, I followed the gent's advice on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1jUWdTUkg

You can get them from Rockler or Woodcraft and a bunch of other places for between $10 and $15. I just went to Marshals and bought one of their $3.99 insulated coffee mugs with the stainless steel insert. Once screw under the fuzzy bottom and out comes the insert.:thumbsup:

Having a bit of trouble wish finishes on this one, though. Since it is intended to be used as a coffee mug and not just admired, finding a finish that looks good and won't wash away is proving difficult. Tried shellac but did not sand well. Tried tung oil with Poly on top. Waste of time. Lacquer seems to be building nicely and I will let things sit over night before buffing it as I want a bit more shine than a satin finish. I saw some food safe epoxy finishes in a few videos, but will have to wait on those. Will post the final once it is finished.

I probably should have waited to glue in the insert to make finishing easier but I only sanded the wood before gluing it in since I was so afraid of the wood shrinking as it had already started doing and cracking on me again. On the inside of the rim, I did stabilize it with some thin CA which did not soak through to the front so, hopefully, the wood will stay put--and together. Roughly 1/8" thick at the rim.


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

This is a small enough piece you could do a CA finish using the slower setting wood finish CA thats been on the market a while. CA wont be affected by moisture after it cures.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Gary Beasley said:


> This is a small enough piece you could do a CA finish using the slower setting wood finish CA thats been on the market a while. CA wont be affected by moisture after it cures.


I thought about that since I use the thick CA for my pens, but was not too sure about it being food safe or not. I know it is hard acrylic afterwards, but figured I would be safe. I will give it a try next time. I tried to follow Capt. Eddie's tutorial, which used thin CA on the first attempt and was not pleased with the result or the fumes. Don't get the fumes when I use the thick on my pens. I use the thick for R/C Airplanes with very nice and durable results. My main pen (available in my site gallery section for pens. The blue acrylic and burl Magnetic Graduate) has been in heavy use since 2012 and barely shows a scratch despite riding in my back pocket since then.

Thanks for the suggestion.


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## bond3737 (Nov 13, 2009)

good lookin pens! I apologize if you know all of this Im sure youve worked with more ca than I but larger objects behave a bit different. I tried cappn eddies tutorial on a bowl once and learned a few things through gross error, first CA glue though chemically different is the closest ive ever come to sulfuric acid that stuff burns through everything. Second the amount you put on the paper towel really matters thin coats are your friend. Third speed can be a bear to deal with. I wish I had a variable speed lathe to take the speed even lower but such is life.214 rp combined with the slightest excess in ca can lead to slinging that crap all over the place. An lastly you gotta know when to stop. too many coats can leave a super plasticy look and kinda ruin the piece. Would'nt worry too much about food safe or not I've been told that anything cured is ok but then again lead paint cures and I wouldnt eat out of a bowl with a lead paint finish so heck if I know. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about finishes (bill im lookin at you) could give us the skinny on food safe or not You wont be licking the side of your mug Im guessin though so I'd imagine you're in the clear on that one happy turnin,
Bond


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

thenodemaster said:


> I thought about that since I use the thick CA for my pens, but was not too sure about it being food safe or not. I know it is hard acrylic afterwards, but figured I would be safe. I will give it a try next time. I tried to follow Capt. Eddie's tutorial, which used thin CA on the first attempt and was not pleased with the result or the fumes. Don't get the fumes when I use the thick on my pens. I use the thick for R/C Airplanes with very nice and durable results. My main pen (available in my site gallery section for pens. The blue acrylic and burl Magnetic Graduate) has been in heavy use since 2012 and barely shows a scratch despite riding in my back pocket since then.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.


I do use a dust collector on my lathe to keep the CA fumes out of my face.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

bond3737 said:


> good lookin pens! I apologize if you know all of this Im sure youve worked with more ca than I but larger objects behave a bit different. I tried cappn eddies tutorial on a bowl once and learned a few things through gross error, first CA glue though chemically different is the closest ive ever come to sulfuric acid that stuff burns through everything. Second the amount you put on the paper towel really matters thin coats are your friend. Third speed can be a bear to deal with.
> Bond


Yeah, I have had some bad experiences with CA on larger projects with regards to the fumes. I wear a respirator with chemical filters now since I gave myself a hell of a case of bronchitis when I almost glued them shut while assembling pieces for some segmented turning when I first started back in 2011. I can get my lathe down to around 75RPM with the belt in the middle--more if I lower the belt combo. GLad to hear that I was not the only one who had issues with trying Cap'n Eddie's approach. I found with the pens that the thick R/C airplane CA works very well and is easy to spread nicely. You can use some accelerator with no clouding if you are careful. Since my pens are made to handle everyday use (the pics in the previous post were taken over 3 years AFTER that pen was maid and CA'd with no need for rejuvenation. I figure it can still look that good after all my abuse, I know the CA finishes I send out on my pens will last almost as long as the Titanium Nitride finish on some of them.

Got the mug lacquered with approximately 9 coats of and wet polished before parting off and now have the bottom drying with some lacquer. I used my micromesh buffing pads on the lacquer that I use on my CA pens and it came out very nice. I think I will touch it up a bit with some carnuba on my lathe buffing wheel tomorrow after the last coats have had 24 hours to harden.

Tomorrow comes the live fire test--and a cup of Joe! :yes:


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

*Didn't need the waxing*

Well, I got a bit impatient--luckily, things are so warm here in SOCAL that the couple of coats of rattle can lacquer had dried enough that I was able to remove all the masking tape and get a good look at things. I have to say that I am quite pleased with my first mug. Most of my frustration--AFTER the first gaffe with the cracking--was finding a finish that worked for me. I think I need a fresh can next time if I don't like doing the thick viscosity CA finish. I will have to swing by Marshals again here in town and see if they got any more of those $3.99 mugs next time I do this. Pics attached. I wish I could get the chatoyance that really shines like a 3D hologram in the elongated branch knot on the one side, but you can see the glossy finish. It took about 9 coats over 2 days from a 3 year old rattle can of lacquer from Lowes.

Last Pic attached just for the laughs. The guys at EWT had a good laugh at seeing junior hockin' their wares!


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

bond3737 said:


> .... Second the amount you put on the paper towel really matters thin coats are your friend. T.... An lastly you gotta know when to stop. too many coats can leave a super plasticy look and kinda ruin the piece. Would'nt worry too much about food safe or not I've been told that anything cured is ok but then again lead paint cures and I wouldnt eat out of a bowl with a lead paint finish so heck if I know. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about finishes (bill im lookin at you) could give us the skinny on food safe or not ....


I'm not sure which Bill you mean, but my ears were burning. Food safe? Maybe, as long as it doesn't come in contact with hot food. The main thing is that it or most any other film finish isn't going to hold up to constant contact with food especially if it is really hot. The outside of a mug should be OK. What you say about handling CA is spot on.

When using CA as a fiinish do the following:


Go outdoors
Get a roll of Bounty paper towels and use a half sheet for each "wipe"
Get some nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight
Use only the super thin CA. I prefer StarBond from CPH International. I buy it by the pint and keep it refrigerated.
Use the StarBond accelerator in the pump sprayer ... do not use the aerosol can accelerator because it will fume the CA
Fold the paper towel so that you have a triangular corner and saturate it with super thin CA ... not too much or it will go high order or drip or glue your finger to the paper towel.
Now very quickly take one quick wipe (about half way around the mug, in this case) and then quickly drop the paper towel on the ground. DO NOT continue top wipe with the paper towel until it gets hard. Just one quick wipe ... no more. If you get cheap and ignore this rule, you will find out the hard way ....
Apply one quick spritz of accelerator from at least a foot away from the surface. In the summer this step may not be necessary if the CA has already set before you can use the accelerator. Remember .... aerosol accelerator is NOT ALLOWED because it will fume the CA.
Go back to step 4 and repeat as much as necessary. Using this method, you should not have a lumpy finish.
Finally sand starting with about 320 and then 400 and then Micromesh up through 12,000 used wet.
I didn't say to put on the nitrile gloves, but I hope that you figured that part out without me needing to say it. This whole process takes a lot of paper towels and a lot of CA, but the results are worth it. All of this is done OFF THE LATHE and outdoors. I don't care how slow your lathe runs ... doing it on the lathe and especially with with medium and thick CA is a guaranteed recipe for streaky results.
I'm with you on being skeptical of the myth about everything that dries being food safe. Tell that to the bugs that check into the Roach Motel.



thenodemaster said:


> Yeah, I have had some bad experiences with CA on larger projects with regards to the fumes. I wear a respirator with chemical filters now since I gave myself a hell of a case of bronchitis when I almost glued them shut while assembling pieces for some segmented turning when I first started back in 2011.......



I have a love/hate relationship with CA. I always manage to glue myself to something. And I have also had some bad experiences with a lot of fumes when using large amounts of CA leading to it going high order. The super thin StarBond and their pump spray accelerator has cause me to go back to using CA, but you do need to still exercise caution. I love lacquer finishes and Micromesh. They are a lot of work and I am not sure if it will hold up well on a coffee mug. I would let it cure for a week before using it.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

I have had better luck with the thick CA on my pens. Anything bigger than that and I have nothing but problems with it. I figured a way to do things on the lathe running about 300 on an old mandrel wrapped in blue painter's tape wrapped thick enough for the tube to be lightly gripped by the friction so there is no gluing things you don't want glued. When I use the accelerator, it is a single, quick spritz and wait a minute. Do this three or four times and then begin sanding and polishing. I get the finish like the one shown in the pen pic I posted earlier. I barely get any fuming from the thick CA when I use this method. I do occasionally use thin CA when I need to stabilize a blank such as buckeye or box elder, but that is all I use the thin for.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

The technique that I use is what I learned from Alan Trout. If you are an AAW member, see the August 2013 issue. He is the featured artist on the inside cover and page 1. He turns hollow forms using wood and cast resins and finishes with CA. I have done several medium size vases with a CA finish. The first one before learning Alan Trout's method was done with medium and thick CA and was a mess trying to level the finish. A pen, by comparison is not a problem if thew finish is lumpy. When finishing pens with CA I use the linseed oil method that I learned from Jeff Carrell and apply it with the lathe running at high speed.


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## Jerry Maske (Dec 29, 2013)

You guys are pretty brave with that CA glue. I know two rules concerning it's usage. 1) Never squeeze the bottle. And 2) Never hold the bottle over something you don't want glue on (number one applies here). It wasn't pretty.

Standing with a knot I needed to glue the end to the underside of; a move I've made a million times. Someone walked into the room behind me I didn't hear. When she put her hand on my shoulder, I jumped, squeezed the bottle and knew I'd made a major mistake. A LOT of CA was now running over my hand and onto the cotton line, which began to smolder. It dripped down onto my cotton shorts, which also began to smolder. Then it dripped down onto my flip flops, my feet and onto the floor. 

So, there I stood with a large Turks Head knot glued to my hand, on fire, my shorts on fire and my feet glued to the floor. I can laugh about it now, but then . . .

Guess we all learn. Anyway, good luck with the finish and getting it cured. Oh, I read in a wood working magazine that NO finish is safe if you drink it out of the can. Probably applies to CA as well. Wouldn't that be a mess?

Jerry


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Last night I was using some thin CA to fill some very fine cracks in a piece of wood, but I didn't notice that the very thin crack ran through to the other side ... where my hand happened to be holding the piece of wood ... and my hand happened to be resting on my knee. The toe of my Brooks Adrenaline running shoes was directly plumb line vertical beneath my knee. The debonder was on the other sided of the garage.

Need I say anything else? Oh yeah, I like these shoes because of the open weave that keeps my feet cool.

Pictures? No, I'm afraid not. I wouldn't want to glue the camera to my hand. It's bad enough carrying around this four pound chunk of wood.

And .... why did I sleep with my running shoes on last night? Well, maybe it's because I like to hit the ground running when I get up ... or maybe it's something else.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Bill Boehme said:


> Last night I was using some thin CA to fill some very fine cracks in a piece of wood, but I didn't notice that the very thin crack ran through to the other side ... where my hand happened to be holding the piece of wood ... and my hand happened to be resting on my knee. The toe of my Brooks Adrenaline running shoes was directly plumb line vertical beneath my knee. The debonder was on the other sided of the garage.
> 
> Need I say anything else? Oh yeah, I like these shoes because of the open weave that keeps my feet cool.
> 
> ...


LOL. Did that one a few times--thankfully I was wearing latex gloves when it happened. When I use CA on my pens, I use one of the small bags that held a piece of the kit as a finger condom. Lately, I have taken to Cap'n Eddies paper towel one wipe per piece as it seems to give a better finish. I use the blue shop towels I get in a box at autozone and get good results. I stick with thick after the initial coat of medium as this gives me better results, but, whatever works you should use.

Oh, the wife knows NEVER to come up behind me when I am at ANY tool. She has had to duck a few times. :blink:


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

I usually use thin ca for my projects. Thick for filling a crack or hole. On thing I do is put some wide masking tape on the back side of the paper towel. The ca won't go through the tape and 
it won't stick to my hand.

Another thing I use are pieces of cloth. Only polyester, as the ca won't set up fast as on cotton, and you don't get the little fuzzies. I go to Good Will or garage sales where people are getting rid of their old leisure suits from the 80's which are almost free. I put a big area of tape on a flat area of cloth, and then using a straight edge and razor knife, cut it into little squares. Works great and don't stick to your fingers. Sure I have a little money into tape but I like this better than paper towel with tape. Some areas of cloth is thicker than one layer and it holds more glue for doing bigger projects. Just my preference.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

I am a pro furniture and cabinetmaker and have been doing it for many years.I'm always running into something in a magazine or online that is out of my scope of work that I want to try. Never for profit but just want to try it.Does not always turn out well the first time but is always enjoyable and a good learning experience.Keep at it and enjoy.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Very true.


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## Jerry Maske (Dec 29, 2013)

I make Native American Style Flutes and needed a finish that was non toxic; Hate it when a customer dies playing one of my flutes. Ran into some research about finish toxicity and some other stuff and decided it was good advice. Basically, most finishes ARE food safe when used in accordance with instructions. In other words, apply them properly, let them cure and you are home free. Don't drink it out of the can or lick your fingers while you're applying the stuff.

I like Min Wax Poly Wipe On, as did the author of the article. Mild color change, totally food safe after curing, readily available even at Home Depot and inexpensive. To be sure, others will disagree with this and I look forward to being educated. But it's so easy to use and works so well that I can't see any reason to change. 

Now, about the burning CA Glue . . .


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