# Getting Ready to Spray Lacquer and Need Advice



## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Alright, so you may notice that the following questions are all easy researched, and indeed I have researched them. However, when I put the whole process together, I am still concerned that there may be some pitfalls that I am missing because I simply don't know enough about any of this. So I am requesting advice on my specific situation to help with my peace of mind.

I have carved, assembled, and iron buffed (consider it a dye) my white oak framed and red oak plywood backed shadow-box-like project. So far, the project has been a 'par 2'. One miter has a small gap, some wood split away after the first soaking in tea (part of iron buff process), and it's off square by about 1/16" over 12". I really need the finish to shine.

I want a glass smooth lacquer finish. The grain has raised and I want to knock it down, but am worried about going through the finish; iron buff is carried in water so reapplying will raise the grain again. *What's the safest way to do this without going through a stain?*

I have used steel wool with success to knock grain down in the past, but the particles are difficult to remove from the plywood. Towel lint is also sticking in the plywood grain.* Is there an easy way to remove steel wool particles, or a better way to knock down grain without creating such a mess?*

Finally, I have no grain filler, so I am wondering if I can spray it with lacquer, sand it down, and repeat until the pours are sealed. *Will this work, and is there a safe way to do it without sanding through the iron buff?*

Finally, and this one is a bit more obscure... *will gloss lacquer interfere with a spray adhesive, and will silicone sealant adhere to lacquer (gloss or not)?*

I'll buy shellac SealCoat if it's necessary to fill the grain. Otherwise, the project is small enough to choose the slow and steady options if they promise a better and/or safer result. My experience is nil, but I learn quick and my patience is long, so I look to avoid advanced techniques in favor of slower, more easily picked up methods.

Thanks for reading, more thanks for responding!

Edit: I should add that the iron buff results are a bit 'dull', and I bet the lacquer would not do the slightest thing to darken the black color of the wood. Any ideas for a quick way to give the wood a permanent wet look before the lacquer? Perhaps this can be part of the grain filling process? Thanks again.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You have too many different things going on out of sequence. I would start over with the finish and deal with the problems as they come. 

First I would putty and sand the miter that has the gap and any other defects you might see. 

Second I would fill the grain with a pastewood grain filler. They can be ordered by mail or Sherwin Williams sells a good one. It only comes in a natural color but they can tint it to what ever color you need. Once the filler dries overnight lightly sand the project to get the excess of the filler that might be on the surface. If you need to order it Mohawk Finishing Products is the brand I use. 

Third, do your iron buff again and check for color. You might need to touch up the color with a dye all over or in spots. 

I would put the steel wool away and use only 220 or finer grit sandpaper. Steel wood is too dirty to use between the coats of finishing. This the problem you are experiencing needing a way to clean the wool particles. It goes beyond particles, there is steel dust mixed in with it. I don't know where the spray adhesive is but if you flood a wet coat of lacquer around it some will run under the parts and loosen spray adhesive. Silicone caulk can cause you a lot of problems. I wouldn't use it until you are completely done. If the project is in a wet location is why you want to use silicone caulk then lacquer may not be the finish you want. A nitrocellulose lacquer isn't water resistant at all. A pre-catalyzed lacquer is better but isn't suited for constant water exposure. 

Fourth, if you are using a nitrocellulose lacquer then the next step would be to use a lacquer sanding sealer. You can use several coats sanding between coats until you get the finish level to your liking. Then topcoat with two coats of the sheen lacquer you desire. 
If you are using a pre-catalyzed lacquer seal the wood with one coat of a vinyl sanding sealer. Then topcoat sanding between coats with as many coats as it takes to get the appearance you desire. Either lacquer if you intend to put a lot of coats of satin lacquer on you would be better off using gloss first and do the last coat with the satin. Multiple coats of satin can look cloudy. 

The lacquer should give it a wet look. Try it on some scraps and see what happens.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Filler for the miter was a given. Because iron buff doesn't actually add material to the wood, I am under the impression that I may as well buff first before filling with ebony filler.

Other defects are of questionable importance due to the intended use of the project as a gaming grid, which will earn more defects over time anyway. 

Grain filler frightens me. Not only is it a one time use, effectively trashing the left overs, but the idea of putty knifing everything with such little experience sounds risky. However, if it's the only thing that will get the job done, then that's what I've got, I guess. 

The silicone caulk is a gasket which protects the velvet interior from unfortunate spills that take place on the glass surface. It doesn't need to stick perfectly, only well enough to not come off when the plexiglass is lifted and replaced. All water exposure is accidental and momentary, but catastrophic if it seeps into the velvet interior. 

I just bought some clearance Deft Gloss Lacquer, and the last can of Deft Sanding Sealer (lacquer) was bought from under my nose before I decided I wanted it. A shame, really... will shellac sealer not work? 

That's good to know about the wet look. Iron buffed white oak can look either dry, dull, and blueish; or wet, rich, and pitch black. I want the latter. 

Thanks for the tips. I will look into the grain filler and sanding sealer. Just trying to minimize investment. No leftovers are expected to see future use. 

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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Grain filler is like a thin wood putty. Let me explain how it works. It's like a really thick paint. You brush it on and let it sit until it thickens and squeege it off with a rubber squeege like you clean the windshield of your car with. On moldings you just rub it off with a rag. The only thing scary about it is doing too much of it at a time. Then it dries before you can get it rubbed off. Just work small areas until you get used to how much to do at once. As far as not being able to use the left overs. I take it it is because of the color. You could have the paint store put some black tinting color in a seperate container and mix smaller batches. It should be measured though to maintain the color. The wood filler will last for years.

A momentary water spill isn't going to hurt either lacquer and the deft lacquer is a nitrocellulose lacquer. You can use it without the sanding sealer but it would be a lot more work. Sealcoat oe standard shellac is compatable with lacquer however for what you are doing using multiple coats to make the glass like finish I wouldn't use sealcoat. You might ask the store when they might get some more lacquer sanding sealer.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

My understanding is that lacquer sanding sealer is essentially thinned down lacquer. 

When I spray lacquer, I'll start with 2 coats of lacquer thinned 50%, then several coats thinned at about 20%. I'll only sand the next to last coat with 400 grit paper then spray a final coat thinned to 50%. The results are a very smooth finish. I don't buff to a polished shine but I'm sure I could.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> Grain filler is like a thin wood putty. Let me explain how it works. It's like a really thick paint. You brush it on and let it sit until it thickens and squeege it off with a rubber squeege like you clean the windshield of your car with. On moldings you just rub it off with a rag. The only thing scary about it is doing too much of it at a time. Then it dries before you can get it rubbed off. Just work small areas until you get used to how much to do at once. As far as not being able to use the left overs. I take it it is because of the color. You could have the paint store put some black tinting color in a seperate container and mix smaller batches. It should be measured though to maintain the color. The wood filler will last for years.
> 
> A momentary water spill isn't going to hurt either lacquer and the deft lacquer is a nitrocellulose lacquer. You can use it without the sanding sealer but it would be a lot more work. Sealcoat oe standard shellac is compatable with lacquer however for what you are doing using multiple coats to make the glass like finish I wouldn't use sealcoat. You might ask the store when they might get some more lacquer sanding sealer.


I use a wide, sharp steel putty knife to remove excess filler. That way even if I have waited too long the over dried excess is removed with ease. On smaller jobs I have even been known to use a chisel.

George


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sirnanigans said:


> I want a glass smooth lacquer finish. The grain has raised and I want to knock it down, but am worried about going through the finish; iron buff is carried in water so reapplying will raise the grain again. *What's the safest way to do this without going through a stain?*
> 
> I have used steel wool with success to knock grain down in the past, but the particles are difficult to remove from the plywood. Towel lint is also sticking in the plywood grain.* Is there an easy way to remove steel wool particles, or a better way to knock down grain without creating such a mess?*


Instead of steel wool or sandpaper, a cleaner way would be to use Scotch Brite pads, or any 'wools', such as mineral wools, or bronze wool. It would be better to not abrade the stained application, as that could change it. 



Sirnanigans said:


> Finally, I have no grain filler, so I am wondering if I can spray it with lacquer, sand it down, and repeat until the pours are sealed. *Will this work, and is there a safe way to do it without sanding through the iron buff?*


A solvent base paste wood filler would be the way to go. It wouldn't raise the grain. Some grain fillers come in a variety of colors. I use this one. It's been mentioned that you can thin the lacquer and use it as a sealer. That does work and it makes for a good finishing base for the lacquer topcoat. Sanding sealers have stearates added to make the sanding easier. 



Sirnanigans said:


> Finally, and this one is a bit more obscure... *will gloss lacquer interfere with a spray adhesive, and will silicone sealant adhere to lacquer (gloss or not)?*


If you are referring to whether a silicone sealer be added as a final sealant over lacquer, yes it will adhere regardless of the sheen.



Sirnanigans said:


> 'll buy shellac SealCoat if it's necessary to fill the grain. Otherwise, the project is small enough to choose the slow and steady options if they promise a better and/or safer result. My experience is nil, but I learn quick and my patience is long, so I look to avoid advanced techniques in favor of slower, more easily picked up methods.


Sealcoat would fill the grain, but I would rather just stick with the lacquer. Your best finish though would be to use a paste wood filler first if at all possible.



Sirnanigans said:


> Edit: I should add that the iron buff results are a bit 'dull', and I bet the lacquer would not do the slightest thing to darken the black color of the wood. Any ideas for a quick way to give the wood a permanent wet look before the lacquer? Perhaps this can be part of the grain filling process? Thanks again.


Using a gloss lacquer will give either a flat black or gloss black a 'wet' look gloss finish. When you refer to 'cans', do you mean spray cans, or cans like quart/gallon cans?


















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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Masterjer said:


> My understanding is that lacquer sanding sealer is essentially thinned down lacquer.
> 
> When I spray lacquer, I'll start with 2 coats of lacquer thinned 50%, then several coats thinned at about 20%. I'll only sand the next to last coat with 400 grit paper then spray a final coat thinned to 50%. The results are a very smooth finish. I don't buff to a polished shine but I'm sure I could.


Sanding sealer is lacquer which contains zinc sterates. This makes if build faster and easier to sand.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> ...As far as not being able to use the left overs. I take it it is because of the color...
> 
> ...You might ask the store when they might get some more lacquer sanding sealer.


The reason I won't use the excess is because I am a hobbiest, not a hobby woodworker. This project is woodworking, but I can't say any others will be. I like to do things right and really earn the experience, hence the research and such.

I work in the department that sells the lacquer sealer, and corporate has no idea what it's doing. Just like we got rid of our only brush on metallic paint, we likely will just not have a sanding sealer (besides shellac).

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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

I forgot to mention that, as a general hobbiest who isn't always doing wood work, I have no means of spraying lacquer besides aerosol cans. This is what I am using, so no chance of thinning. 

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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Sirnanigans said:


> The reason I won't use the excess is because I am a hobbiest, not a hobby woodworker. This project is woodworking, but I can't say any others will be. I like to do things right and really earn the experience, hence the research and such.
> 
> I work in the department that sells the lacquer sealer, and corporate has no idea what it's doing. Just like we got rid of our only brush on metallic paint, we likely will just not have a sanding sealer (besides shellac).
> 
> Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


Ok, you can improvise a grain filler with a vinyl spackle. You can buy as small of a can as your project and color it with a universal tinting color. Tinting color is the colorant a paint store has in their machines to color paint. My Sherwin Williams will sell the color put in small container you can take in. I even went to a Sherwin Williams near a job site where I didn't have a container and they put some in a styrofoam coffee cup. 

Spackle is thick and sets up quick so you would have to apply it and almost immediately squeegee it off. Anyway what is left would sand far easier than actual grain filler.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sirnanigans said:


> I forgot to mention that, as a general hobbiest who isn't always doing wood work, I have no means of spraying lacquer besides aerosol cans. This is what I am using, so no chance of thinning.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


You can pick up a Preval spray which is basically a self powered spray unit that you use your own material. You can add what you want, mix in what you want, and for some projects makes spraying much easier than using rattle cans. It's very easy to use and convenient. I use them for some on site spraying when I don't bring a spray gun and my portable compressor.
*http://store.preval.com/*


















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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Ok, you can improvise a grain filler with a vinyl spackle. You can buy as small of a can as your project and color it with a universal tinting color. Tinting color is the colorant a paint store has in their machines to color paint. My Sherwin Williams will sell the color put in small container you can take in. I even went to a Sherwin Williams near a job site where I didn't have a container and they put some in a styrofoam coffee cup.
> 
> Spackle is thick and sets up quick so you would have to apply it and almost immediately squeegee it off. Anyway what is left would sand far easier than actual grain filler.


I work at a hardware store paint department; I can just dispense it myself. I will look into this, maybe try it out at work before I buy. I can probably find a busted container or some we use around the store. 

Easy to sand sounds good. It sounds like I can skim off the filler well before I cut into the hard oak, making it less likely that I need to repair the stain. 

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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

cabinetman said:


> You can pick up a Preval spray which is basically a self powered spray unit that you use your own material. You can add what you want, mix in what you want, and for some projects makes spraying much easier than using rattle cans. It's very easy to use and convenient. I use them for some on site spraying when I don't bring a spray gun and my portable compressor.
> *http://store.preval.com/*
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have these where I work. I'll look into it, but then I need lacquer in a quart can, which I don't know if we have, so no awesome discount... 

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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Have you considered using waterbase polyurethane instead of lacquer?








 







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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

cabinetman said:


> Have you considered using waterbase polyurethane instead of lacquer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have used poly in the past. I used it on a red oak long bow for its flexibility, and overall I didn't like the finish. It works, and it only took two coats, but it seemed to have a surface tension about it when it went on. With square edges and no good brushes, I am not enthusiastic about using it. Mayyybe wipe on poly...maybe. 

Most importantly, my experience with finishing is negligible, so redo and repair potential is a prized asset of lacquer and shellac. 

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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

What about putting a thicker coat of lacquer on, and brushing mineral spirits onto it until it's dissolved into the wood? 

Can this seal the grain in place of a spray lacquer sealer?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sirnanigans said:


> What about putting a thicker coat of lacquer on, and brushing mineral spirits onto it until it's dissolved into the wood?
> 
> Can this seal the grain in place of a spray lacquer sealer?


Mineral spirits is not a solvent for lacquer...lacquer thinner is. Doing that with lacquer thinner will likely create brush strokes, and a mess. There's no real short fast cut that is better than dong it the correct way in the beginning.








 







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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

cabinetman said:


> Mineral spirits is not a solvent for lacquer...lacquer thinner is. Doing that with lacquer thinner will likely create brush strokes, and a mess. There's no real short fast cut that is better than dong it the correct way in the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds about right. Was worth asking, though. I am currently using the vinyl spackling approach, after my local paint store failed to provide a proper grain filler/sealer. It's working well, but it's hot and dry out here and I am stuck doing 4" x 4" at a time. 

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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Sirnanigans said:


> What about putting a thicker coat of lacquer on, and brushing mineral spirits onto it until it's dissolved into the wood?
> 
> Can this seal the grain in place of a spray lacquer sealer?


With lacquer you shouldn't go more than 3 mils thick with the finish. 3 mils is about the thickness of a lawn and leaf trash bag. If you get too thick with lacquer if the brand lacquer you are using is soft it will gouge and scratch easily. If the brand is hard it is likely to crack with wood movement. I normally use one or two coats of sanding sealer and two coats of lacquer. 

I guess you are wanting to thin the lacquer to get a better adhesion but it's not necessary. Normal thinning will bond the lacquer as good as it will.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> With lacquer you shouldn't go more than 3 mils thick with the finish. 3 mils is about the thickness of a lawn and leaf trash bag. If you get too thick with lacquer if the brand lacquer you are using is soft it will gouge and scratch easily. If the brand is hard it is likely to crack with wood movement. I normally use one or two coats of sanding sealer and two coats of lacquer.
> 
> I guess you are wanting to thin the lacquer to get a better adhesion but it's not necessary. Normal thinning will bond the lacquer as good as it will.


Alright, I will try to keep it thin. I read that gloss requires rubbing, so I will shoot for a fraction thicker to start and work it down to 3mil as I rub it out. 

First coat is down now. The grain still has some texture. I wonder if that's normal, or if my filling was a bit too novice. 

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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gloss isn't a problem. If you prepare the wood right and get a good coat of sealer on it you should be able to spray it with gloss lacquer and be done. No rubbing is needed. The only time I rub out a finish is on high end table tops. Then I wet sand it with 1200 or finer grit paper and buff it with an auto polisher.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Gloss isn't a problem. If you prepare the wood right and get a good coat of sealer on it you should be able to spray it with gloss lacquer and be done. No rubbing is needed. The only time I rub out a finish is on high end table tops. Then I wet sand it with 1200 or finer grit paper and buff it with an auto polisher.


After about 4 coats all around, there's still an obvious grain pattern in the finish. Apparently my impatience with the vinyl spackling filler method, or the quality of the method in general, has left me with a somewhat open grain still. 

I burnished the wood with a folded piece of thick, tough leather. That probably helped, but not enough.

The surface of the red oak ply wood is actually very attractive despite the grain showing, though, and rubbing the finish is only still on the agenda to remove some imperfections. But perhaps it will only create new problems (I already have one area in mind that isn't nearly flat).

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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

In order to level the finish but still match the sheen with some chips and low spots that can't be rubbed out, could I apply many extra coats, sand them down to level, and then just respray a final coat?

This ought to take the grain pattern out of the finish, along with the few dust specs and that stupid eyelash if it works. 

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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

I don't think there's any need to wait to level the surface. I will typically level with 400 grit paper before spraying the final coat or two. If the surface is really uneven, you could be more aggressive with the leveling. No worries about scratches in the lacquer since the subsequent coat will melt into the previous.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Sirnanigans said:


> After about 4 coats all around, there's still an obvious grain pattern in the finish. Apparently my impatience with the vinyl spackling filler method, or the quality of the method in general, has left me with a somewhat open grain still.
> 
> I burnished the wood with a folded piece of thick, tough leather. That probably helped, but not enough.
> 
> ...


Assuming you are using a nitrocellulose lacquer you have to level the surface with sanding sealer first if grain is still showing. You have to lay a lot of sealer on sanding most of it off so the sealer is filling the grain the spackle didn't. Now having said that you have to be careful with drying time. You can make the grain return if you get impatient and put too many coats on too fast sanding along the way. What can happen is when you spray a coat on the solvents in the lacquer can make the spackle swell up making a lump where the grain is. Then you sand it flat and put another coat making the spackle swell up even more. Then sand it down flat again and another coat. Then after you let it set the spackle dries completely and shrinks causing a groove showing the grain again. This occurs even with grain filler. I normally spray as many coats of finish as I need to during the day not sanding it between coats and let dry overnight before sanding. Then if it is still grainy I sand it and spray more sealer not sanding until the next morning. If the surface is level I sand it and start with the lacquer topcoat.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sirnanigans said:


> In order to level the finish but still match the sheen with some chips and low spots that can't be rubbed out, could I apply many extra coats, sand them down to level, and then just respray a final coat?
> 
> This ought to take the grain pattern out of the finish, along with the few dust specs and that stupid eyelash if it works.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


You could be getting to the point where you have applied too much of questionable material. Some spackles work well with lacquer, while others don't. I've never had a problem using compatible materials. I've never had a swelling/shrinking problem even with grain fillers. You don't want to load up and lay on heavy coats of lacquer. For a filler, talc (talcum powder) works better IMO. You have to experiment with the mix ratio.

No matter how you apply the lacquer cannot match the type of finish you get with spraying. If you can find the lacquer in bulk (cans), get a Preval sprayer, and you'll get nice results. You would really benefit from picking up a small compressor and an inexpensive siphon spray gun. You could try some waterbase polyurethane instead of lacquer, as it's easy to get. You can add a small percentage of lacquer thinner to the mix and you'll have similar 'burn in' that the use of lacquer provides.


















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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

cabinetman said:


> You could be getting to the point where you have applied too much of questionable material. Some spackles work well with lacquer, while others don't. I've never had a problem using compatible materials. I've never had a swelling/shrinking problem even with grain fillers. You don't want to load up and lay on heavy coats of lacquer. For a filler, talc (talcum powder) works better IMO. You have to experiment with the mix ratio.
> 
> No matter how you apply the lacquer cannot match the type of finish you get with spraying. If you can find the lacquer in bulk (cans), get a Preval sprayer, and you'll get nice results. You would really benefit from picking up a small compressor and an inexpensive siphon spray gun. You could try some waterbase polyurethane instead of lacquer, as it's easy to get. You can add a small percentage of lacquer thinner to the mix and you'll have similar 'burn in' that the use of lacquer provides.


I don't believe any swelling occurred with the spackling. The only problem of that sort might have been my impatience with it and it shrank into the pores a little when it fully dried. I sanded the spackle immediately when it was dry, and I had the piece in the sun on a hot day to dry things up quick. There are two sides to the ply wood, and one was not filled because it will be covered with velvet anyway. The side that was filled looks substantially better, so the filler worked, but there's still a slight grain texture in the lacquer, so I bet shrinking of the spackling is the problem. Well, impatience is the problem.

The lacquer is already down (at this point, the title of this thread has become outdated) and I am wondering if the low points of the grain texture are built up enough to level it without sanding down to the wood again. I have narrow sides with square edges, and I know for a fact that I will sand through the stain if I bring anything down to bare wood. I did spray (with an aerosol can), and only want to remove the grain texture -- I don't mind the spray finish without rubbing.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Assuming you are using a nitrocellulose lacquer you have to level the surface with sanding sealer first if grain is still showing. You have to lay a lot of sealer on sanding most of it off so the sealer is filling the grain the spackle didn't. Now having said that you have to be careful with drying time. You can make the grain return if you get impatient and put too many coats on too fast sanding along the way. What can happen is when you spray a coat on the solvents in the lacquer can make the spackle swell up making a lump where the grain is. Then you sand it flat and put another coat making the spackle swell up even more. Then sand it down flat again and another coat. Then after you let it set the spackle dries completely and shrinks causing a groove showing the grain again. This occurs even with grain filler. I normally spray as many coats of finish as I need to during the day not sanding it between coats and let dry overnight before sanding. Then if it is still grainy I sand it and spray more sealer not sanding until the next morning. If the surface is level I sand it and start with the lacquer topcoat.


The sanding sealer was missed thanks to my store's inability to understand its demographic. We cleared out all the sanding sealer now, both Deft lacquer sealer and Zinsser SealCoat shellac sealer. So I went with clearance lacquer finish to start. My understanding is that the straight finish is more difficult to sand, but otherwise will achieve the same results (assuming no errors were made for the added difficulty).

The grain texture is extremely muted, with a significant difference from the side that I didn't fill. I am hoping that the texture isn't so deep that I can't level it until I expend 3 cans of lacquer on the project to get the coats that I need.

I am no expert on fluid physics, like capillary action and surface tension, but I am wondering if a deeper grain texture actually coaxes the lacquer out of the low points when I spray it, building more where I don't need it. If this is the case, then I can use less lacquer by sanding after every 2 coats or so, reducing the grain texture as I go rather than spraying and spraying until the lowest point is high enough to level all at once.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Ok, you can improvise a grain filler with a vinyl spackle. You can buy as small of a can as your project and color it with a universal tinting color. Tinting color is the colorant a paint store has in their machines to color paint. My Sherwin Williams will sell the color put in small container you can take in. I even went to a Sherwin Williams near a job site where I didn't have a container and they put some in a styrofoam coffee cup.
> 
> Spackle is thick and sets up quick so you would have to apply it and almost immediately squeegee it off. Anyway what is left would sand far easier than actual grain filler.


Just want to share my impressions with the vinyl spackle idea. I did use this, and I am happy with the results.

I mixed one ounce of lamp black colorant into a half-pint container of DAP Vinyl Spackle. It took a good bit of time to mix, and thinned it considerably. The colorant I used was water based, and I know for a fact that it dries noticeably faster that the typical universal colorants. I feel like the added colorant made it easy to work in, but reduced the open time substantially, as it would be drying to my knife in a matter of seconds (maybe 15 - 20 seconds of open time, then it was back to the tub). This was misleading, though; The spackle continued to shrink still, and I sanded it too soon because it seemed completely dry.

The color seemed light, and it was made worse by the sanding dust which seemed to adhere to the whole project, making it look charcoal gray. After is was washed away, though, and especially after the lacquer was applied, it came out pitch black as intended (I will have photos at some point of this whole project). Cleaning the sanding dust took a good vacuuming and many passes with a damp cloth (I dampened it with tea to prime for a touch-up coat of iron buff). In total, I probably wiped the project down 6 times over with a well dampened cloth, brushed it down twice with a chip brush and the iron buff solution (basically water as far as its cleaning potential is concerned), and then wiped it down 4 more times with a damp cloth. At that point, the surface still appeared to have dust on it; the cloth came up blackened with more passes but the buff solution may have been responsible (reacts with the tea), and it ended up coming out perfect.

Over all, I am happy. It cost little, is reusable for more than woodworking, and filled the grain fairly well. I would compare the results to commercially finished cabinet doors. There is a grain texture, but it's not 'open' and it's shallow enough to be cleanable with relative ease. I missed a small spot (didn't notice until after the lacquer...) and it almost looks like a gouge because the grain is so open (hurray, red oak...), so I know that the spackle did a darned good job for what it's worth.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've used spackle in a pinch when I couldn't get actual grain filler. It's just a pain because it dries so fast it doesn't really give you time to work it. If actual grain filler did that it would be a nightmare as it doesn't sand near as easy as spackle.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> I've used spackle in a pinch when I couldn't get actual grain filler. It's just a pain because it dries so fast it doesn't really give you time to work it. If actual grain filler did that it would be a nightmare as it doesn't sand near as easy as spackle.


True that. Ease of sanding really saved me. It clogged anything finer than 220, but the 220 paper needed so little pressure that I didn't risk going through the hard oak much at all. 

On the narrow sides I definitely went through the finish in many places. However, my iron buff has a maximum staining power that's quickly reached, so applying more easily resulted in an even stain again. 

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