# Spray lacquering for jewelry box???



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

Well I am finishing my jewelry box using rattle can Deft Spray Lacquer Clear Wood Finish Semi Gloss. This is my first time finishing with lacquer and I only have minimal experience using poly. The can does not say anything about sanding between coats, but the box plans do.

Can some please explain the proper spray lacquer process using a rattle can? I seem to be getting some what of an orange peel effect and a rough feeling surface. I tried a light sanding with 400 grit paper and it was getting a whitish flat look to it. The white stuff seems to wipe off. Then sprayed another coat and more peel. I seem to see it more in the red padauk and less in the curly maple, but it all feels rough.

I am three, what I think are light, coats in. I will try and get a tighter shot.

Thanks


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

Better pix of problems. What can be done if anything?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Anytime you put any finish on wood it should be sanded between coats. Each time the finish is sanded and re-sprayed it gets better and smoother. I normally sand between coats with 220 grit paper between coats. 

As best as I can tell from the pictures it looks like you are holding the can too close to the work and not letting the finish atomize. Its either that or silicone contamination. If you used car wax or furniture polish on your machinery you might have transfered the silicone in it to the wood. If silicone is the problem you might have to put a coat of shellac over your finish as a barrier before you topcoat with lacquer. There are other fixes but it would take a paint sprayer to use. 

I would just sand it smooth and put another coat on holding the can 10" to 12" from the box and see what happens.


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks Steve. It could be too close spraying is the culprit. What grit would you use to sand down the lacquer? Should I try and go to bare wood? Are you dry sanding between coats of finish? And how do you clean off the dust between finish sandings?

Thanks


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I normally sand between coats with 220 grit stearated sandpaper. I also like Glit sanding pads available at sherwin williams. When they're worn out I usually put 220 paper on them with spray adhesive. Then I blow the dust off with compressed air. If it didn't have compressed air I would just dust it off with a soft cloth or a dry paint brush. Its not necessary to go to bare wood. All you need to do is smooth out the orange peal.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It looks pretty normal to me so far*

Lacquer is a thin build up type finish requiring many coats. Sanding lightly between coats to level out is all I do. You didn't seal the raw wood AFAICT, and that means many coats will be needed to fill the pores as in the closeup.
As Chemmy would say ...practice, practice, practice and use similar wood for the samples. As I have said finishing is the last step in the process and usually not much thought is given to it because the building part is the most fun. Finishing is the "dreaded" part, left for last, and is part science/chemistry, part art/technique, and the rest practice/experience.
Just keep on with the process you are using and if you can set the box up under bright spot lights from 2 directions, you'll be able to see how the lacquer is flowing and overlapping as you go. I lay the surface I'm working on horizontally and build up a wet coat I can see in the light. Lacquer welds to itself as you apply each additional layer which is a good thing. Keep us posted.:yes:


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Looks to me like you could have applied too much too slowly, and it loaded up. Not much got into the pores, and that's what you are seeing. 

Spraying with a can isn't easy. It may seem so, because all you have to do is press a button. It could be contamination, but I don't see any "fish eyes". Spraying lacquer is tricky. If you are too far away, or moving too fast, it dries too soon, leaving a rough surface. If you are too close, you can get a build up. Lacquer works best if the subject piece gets wet, and almost to the point of running, but doesn't. It's a matter of maintaining a wet line and continuing with overlapping for the paths.

If you have some sample wood, experiment with distance from the object, and movement speed. When each coat has dried, I would sand with 320x. If you have a compressor, and a spray gun...any gun, you can use bulk lacquer, thin if necessary with lacquer thinner, and add retarder to get a longer dry time for a better flow.

Or, experiment with a waterbase polyurethane. It dries almost as fast as lacquer without blushing or fuzzy finishes.









 







.


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

I am not sure how many coats I have on now, 5 or 6, but I got the last one looking decent and then I just sprayed another and I am not happy. I have been sanding with 400-500 grit paper and for the last coat I used a green scotch brite pad to take off the nibs and I liked it better than sandpaper, but now I am not happy with the bumpiness I am seeing, like the earlier pics. I am running out of time.


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

I think my problem is called Fisheye from silicone contamination. Not sure where there would be contamination. I did use Johnsons Paste Wax when I first got my table saw, but I did not think it had silicone in it. I have seen it recommended in the forums. I wonder if that is the case? Not sure I am going to worry about it too much at this point. It is not that bad.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A full wet coat may some irregularities*

I always, at least on the box I showed, rub out the final coat with a green Scotchbrite to level the surface and dull it down a bit. I like a satin or low gloss finish, so it doesn't detract from the wood color and grain. I want to see that, not a reflection of my face. :no:
Let it dry and then rub it out again. It should be fine. :yes: bill


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

I did notice that the scotch bite dulled the finish. I would like to keep it a little more shiny. Should I use some of the paste wax on it after the scotch brite to shine it up a little? How can I give it the final sanding and keep the satin shine it has now?


----------



## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

Paul W Gillespie said:


> I did notice that the scotch bite dulled the finish. I would like to keep it a little more shiny. Should I use some of the paste wax on it after the scotch brite to shine it up a little? How can I give it the final sanding and keep the satin shine it has now?


I spray lacqure all the time, i don't us rattle can's and don't like deft it is too soft unless they have made it better. I use only M.L.CAMPBELL lacquer a sanding sealer that a couple of coat's and i am done i never have any problum, the rattle can's in my opinion is just a lot of problum's , of course some people just have one project and that is what people are left to do, I use a HVLP sprayer and never have a problun so most will have to work thro what the rattle can's have to offer. just my 3 cent's


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

I would like to get a spray system down the line, but I needed to get this box done and didn't realize I would have so much trouble with the rattle can. I am new to this and have been putting off finishing this box for a long time due to fear of messing it up, with the finish. This experience has really turned my off Lacquer. I know it is most likely my lack of experience with the medium. I will need to get better at it, but the only other finish I have ever used was a brush on minwax poly. I wanted something better for my first piece of "fine" woodworking, built for my wife.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Paul W Gillespie said:


> I would like to get a spray system down the line, but I needed to get this box done and didn't realize I would have so much trouble with the rattle can. I am new to this and have been putting off finishing this box for a long time due to fear of messing it up, with the finish. This *experience has really turned me off Lacque*r. I know it is most likely my lack of experience with the medium. I will need to get better at it, but the only other finish I have ever used was a brush on minwax poly. I wanted something better for my first piece of "fine" woodworking, built for my wife.


The advantage to lacquer is it's fast drying. Poly will take overnite and that's when the dust bunnies nest in the finish.
Lacquer does take a few coats to build, but once you have a thick enough coating you can sand it, scotchbrite it, and buff it. I would not put any wax on the finish as it will interfere with any future repairs. Lacquer is self bonding, so if you need to refresh it with a new coat later you can. The rattle can you are using Deft, may not have a decent fan pattern making it difficult to apply. If that's the issue and you are getting a round pattern try a different nozzle from a can that has a better pattern. Actually I used Meijer Clear Satin Lacquer, if I recall correctly. The rattle can mixture is thinner than you would have with a spray system in order to get it out of the can, so it will require more coats to build the finish. As you see in my photo I really put on a full wet coat. Then I used spot lamps and a heater blowing across it to help dry the finish. Even with all that it was still a bit tacky after a few hours, but by the next day it was fine. 

You might try an automotive type polishing compound for a more glossy sheen. I'd try it by hand with a pad running with the grain. Unfortunately you have nothing to practice on at this point, but I wouldn't give up in this finish or lacquer for that matter.


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks. I did not do a final sanding yet, but it looks pretty good. I am pinched for time. I put the hinges back on it and wrapped it up. We are leaving for my in-laws after I get done work tomorrow and have no time to do anything else. I will give it to my wife on Christmas, at the in-laws, and then worry about getting it perfect, or at least better, after we come home. My wife knows about it and doesn't care if I do it this way. She just wants me to be happy. This way she gets her present on Xmas and the in-laws see I am serious about wood working and might start getting me stuff for the shop, instead of chocolate covered pretzels.

This is driving me nuts though. I really enjoy the building of the projects, but hate the finishing of them. I know it is part of the process, but I need a simple system, that works and is not rocket science. I'm just frustrated.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If all you are working on is small projects you could get a compressor, sprayer and a hose at harbor freight for about a hundred bucks. Of course the larger compressor would allow you to finish larger projects but a little compressor made for a nail gun would work for something as big as a chair. 

From your description I doubt if you have silicone contamination. Johnson Paste Wax doesn't contain silicones. Some car waxes do though. Anyway it takes a considerable amount of silicone to affect the finish. Its normally a problem refinishing antiques where the furniture has had furniture polish sprayed on it for years. For a person that has the means to spray its not the end of the world. Any automotive paint supplier has some kind of fisheye control solvent you can add to the finish. It is actually silicone you add to your finish to make it flow out. You just keep what finish is left over in a seperate container and wash the gun to keep it from contaminating something else. 

As far as the finish you have now. I think even with a rattle can you should be able to sand it smooth and spray the finish to where it didn't need to be rubbed out. I don't care for hand rubbing. To me it clouds the finish unless you go to a high gloss.


----------



## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

If you don't want to buy a compressor and spray gun then one of these or one of these will work fine for small projects. The advantage is that you can use a quality lacquer and thin it yourself so it works properly. You can even add a small amount of retarder if needed. These units don't work well with thick coatings but if thinned properly will do a decent job.


----------



## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

You can go back over it with a hand rubbed finish of pumice and then rotten stone, after a sanding with 400+ grit and get any finish you want. I do this since my spraying conditions are not the best and I always get some kind of bug or dust nibs. The cure for me is get it sprayed down as best you can, give it time to set up properly, and go after it with 400, 800, pumice in a slurry hand rubbed, rotten stone in a slurry hand rubbed. I usually stop at a semi-gloss sheen, but you can go all the way to high gloss with it, and even a paste wax at the end. Leave adequate drying time for the lacquer to set up before starting. A day or so.


----------



## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

Rick Mosher said:


> If you don't want to buy a compressor and spray gun then one of these or one of these will work fine for small projects. The advantage is that you can use a quality lacquer and thin it yourself so it works properly. You can even add a small amount of retarder if needed. These units don't work well with thick coatings but if thinned properly will do a decent job.


 
I do not want to hijack this thread but I have the second of those two products, the Prevail one which apparently Rockler sell. Unfortunately, here in Australia they are more then double the price, mainly because of the restriction on spray packs I suppose.

Regardless, possibly because of my inexperience I have found it to be not a proficient as I had hoped for. Because of the price, learning and experimenting can be highly expensive. I have a HVLP spray unit which I am happy with even though I am still in the Novice stage.

But at times the Prevail system certainly has its benefits especially for small items wher you do not really want a dozen spray cans when you can store the paint in a small container or the extra bottles that you can buy as an extra.

If their are any tips, maybe a new thread on their use would be helpful to others as well.

Pete


----------



## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

Star, you would probably have better luck starting a new thread, with the system you are talking about in the title. This way you are not limiting the answers to those who are just looking at this thread.


----------

