# Raised Panel Kitchen Doors - Stave Width



## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm getting ready to build kitchen cabinets for our home. They will be face frame cabinets with raised panel doors. Face frames and doors will be hard maple and finished with wood dye and a clear finish. In designing the actual panels that will sit in the door frames, I was trying to determine the width of the staves for the panel glue ups. I wanted to select stave widths for each door to minimize waste, however it appears a one size fits all isn't working out. As an example, if I select a stave width of 3.5", a narrow door may need 3 staves for the panel glue up, while a wider door may need 5 or 6, (with allowances for trimming to final panel size). I'm concerned that many staves in a single panel could look too busy. 

What is common practice for stave width? 
Should all panels in the kitchen have the same stave width for uniformity and consistent look across the cabinets, regardless of door width?
Should wider doors have wider staves, while narrow doors have narrow staves?
Is there a standard width that looks good overall, say 4" or 4.5"? 

Sorry for all of the questions. I just want the cabinet doors to look good when the kitchen is finished.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What do you mean by staves? Is it the frame of the door or the panels? It's not uncommon to make cabinet door panels 3 1/2" to 4 1/2" however I haven't seen anyone do it since the 1970's. It would look more modern if you would make the panels almost as wide as the door.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

Steve, I believe the OP is asking about the glue up for the panel. He will make a raised panel door, but needs to glue boards together to get the correct size for the panel. Do you make the boards the same width before doing the panel glue up? If so, is there a preferred width for the boards in the panel?


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I buy my material in 4/4 rough. The lumber is available at the lumber yard in various widths and lengths with 5 1/2 - 6 1/2 inch widths being most common. I try to maximize use of the material and never considered the width of the individual pieces. They look good to me and no complaints from SWMBO.  :thumbsup: :yes:

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Masterjer said:


> Steve, I believe the OP is asking about the glue up for the panel. He will make a raised panel door, but needs to glue boards together to get the correct size for the panel. Do you make the boards the same width before doing the panel glue up? If so, is there a preferred width for the boards in the panel?


If that is the case then the objective should be to arrange the boards to where the grain matches and it's difficult to tell it's not one big wide board. The width of the individual boards in the panel doesn't matter.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Masterjer said:


> Steve, I believe the OP is asking about the glue up for the panel. He will make a raised panel door, but needs to glue boards together to get the correct size for the panel. Do you make the boards the same width before doing the panel glue up? If so, is there a preferred width for the boards in the panel?


Yes, this is what I was asking. Thank you for summarizing.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

All - thank you for the comments and the pictures. 

Mike - I had purchased several wide 4/4 rough boards from a local supplier, but I was thinking they needed to be ripped narrower for stability (avoid cupping). Have you run into any problems with using 5" - 6" wide staves for the panel glue ups? 

Steve - Thanks for mentioning grain match. I'll pay close attention to that!

Tom


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Tom-G said:


> All - thank you for the comments and the pictures.
> 
> Mike - I had purchased several wide 4/4 rough boards from a local supplier, but I was thinking they needed to be ripped narrower for stability (avoid cupping). Have you run into any problems with using 5" - 6" wide staves for the panel glue ups?
> 
> ...


I agree on the narrower width. 3 1/2 - 4 inches should be just about right.

If it were possible to rip off some 1 1/2 inch face frame material, or even 2 inch, then the rest could be used for the panels.

I normally make the railes and stiles 2 1/4 inches wide although, on occasion, I have made them narrower. I have to remember to leave enough material for the door hinges.

Here are two doors made from walnut that are 12 inches wide. I think I used three pieces. I can't find a picture of them in the clamps. I glued up the pieces, planed then down, then cut them to rough length. Then I cut them to their final length and adjusted the width until they fit properly by making several passes on the jointer (removing a little off the edge each pass). :yes:


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Mike,

Those doors and cabinet are beautiful! 

My face frame stiles and upper rails will be 2" and bottom rails 1 1/2". Stiles and rails for the doors will be 2 1/4". Great idea to rip one rail or stile stock from each of the wider boards and use the remainder for the panel glue ups. I can see how that will minimize waste. 

Tom


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

I have been doing the panel glue ups and ran into a problem. I have one panel that will be about 18 inches wide by 44 inches tall. I planed all of the wood (hard maple) about a week ago. I was aligning the boards to do the glue up and one board is bowed. If I clamp one end down, the other end is 5/8 of an inch in above the table. 

Is it best just to mill a replacement board or if I clamp it to straighten it into the middle of the glue up will the overall panel keep it straight? The board is about 4 inches wide.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

It was too much trouble to deal with so I milled a new piece. I'll cut the bowed piece into shorter pieces as needed.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I think you did the best thing, Tom.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

That panel was too wide for my planer so I glued up two halves so that I just have the center seam to worry about. Discarding that bowed piece saved me both time, and the potential the whole panel could warp. 

Overall the panels are looking good. Here is a picture of another panel where I did the two halves first. The center seam isn't glued yet. I'm using a glue line rip blade on my table saw and the seams are tight. 

The only problem on this particular panel is some tear out. I'll be able to sand some of it out, but I'll need to fill an area where it is deeper. Any recommendation on what to fill it with? I need something that will accept water based dye.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Tom-G said:


> The only problem on this particular panel is some tear out. I'll be able to sand some of it out, but I'll need to fill an area where it is deeper. Any recommendation on what .


Hard Maple has a particular 'direction' that it wants to run through a planer in. 

If you glue up multiple strips and plan to run them through a planer later - You need to be sure all your Maple is pointed in the right direction before you glue it up... :yes:


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Yeah.... That didn't occur to me until I started having the tear out problem. The center board had the problem, so on the next pass I fed in the opposite end. The center board looked much better but the 2 side boards didn't! It's one of those experience things. To be sure, on my next glue up I'll be checking the grain direction!


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Tom-G said:


> Yeah.... That didn't occur to me until I started having the tear out problem. The center board had the problem, so on the next pass I fed in the opposite end. The center board looked much better but the 2 side boards didn't! It's one of those experience things. To be sure, on my next glue up I'll be checking the grain direction!


You cant always tell by looking or feeling.

But you can DEFINITELY tell by sending the boards through the planer before glue up and taking off just the slightest bit. Watch them when they come out and mark them with an arrow in the direction they 'need' to run in. 

This will save you a lot of time later... 

I generally start with 13/16" material when doing stuff like this. The extra 1/16th is all I need to sort out all my direction stuff. :yes:

Best of luck with your project Sir. :thumbsup:


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

That's a great tip. Thank you!


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Tom-G said:


> That's a great tip. Thank you!


Just expanding on previous post here...

Some places you will buy your wood from - It will be sanded to thickness. Other (most places) places you buy from it will come planed. Most likely - The place you buy from that uses a planer is NOT using a special spiral / carbide cutterhead that can make perfect wood no matter the direction. 

When it comes already planed to a particular thickness you can generally look at THEIR tearout patterns to get your direction stuff sorted out without a lot of trial and error. The tearout patterns are generally going to be a lot worse on the stuff you get from them because they likely have dull knives and just don't give a hoot so long as they get the 'thickness' part correct. 

That can work to your advantage and speed you up determining the proper direction by noticing the tearout patterns on what you just bought. You may have no need to actually plane the stuff yourself 'first' just from looking at THEIR work. 

Anything I get that is 'sanded' to thickness before delivery gets run through my planer before doing anything else IF it is any sort of 'directional' wood like hard Maple.

Wood bought that came done on a spiral cutterhead should be treated the same as 'sanded to thickness' material if you don't have your own special cutterhead.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

The maple is rough sawn. I did notice the tear out when first planing each board. So once I figured out the proper planing direction for each one I stacked them all oriented so that I could just grab them and feed them into the planer. 

After planing, when selecting boards for each panel, everything was mixed up. I wasn't thinking ahead and didn't keep track of or mark the boards. 

I do have a spiral head planer but even taking a very light pass ( less that 1/64") I still get some tear out. I did rotate the cutters before starting this project to new edges. They are HHS. I was going to buy carbide replacement cutters but the supplier indicated the HHS cutters were better for hardwood. He said the angle the carbide ones are sharpened is for soft wood. 

Anyway, I'm learning as I go. I do appreciate everyone's comments, tips, and guidance.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Ask the guy what the *actual angle is* and make your own choice as to if it 'fits' your needs or not. :yes:


Defect-free pieces at cutting angles of: 5° 10° 15° 20° 25° 30° 

Hard Maple -- -- 56 56 51 17 
Soft Maple 43 61 57 33 34 18

(The Forest Products Laboratory at Madison, Wisconsin conducted a series of tests on the machining of Southern Hardwoods.)


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## sancho57 (Oct 23, 2011)

I'd use either famowood or timber mate to fill the dings. Famowood comes as different species, timber mate is water base and comes in different colours


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