# 3 HP Cyclone collection blowing more chips in filter than in bin



## ahelwig (Oct 4, 2021)

I have had this vac for 15 years. Worked great at my old house but we just moved and I set it up again and now more chips are shooting into the filter than in the bin. In the last house I used 6" PVC and ran it under ground and then reduced to 4" at each tool. I did the same on the new house. Now for the difference. First I don't actually use a filter. In the old house I reduced the output to a 4" and then ran it up through the roof. It was great, never had a filter to maintain. I would check from time to time and never saw any shavings existing the exhaust. Now on the new house I ran 6" up through the roof and out. The problem is now like I stated all my chips are going through the exhaust. After doing some thickness planning I checked the bin and was surprised to see nothing. Then I looked outside and see that it all just went out the exhaust. Do you think on the old system by restricting the exhaust down to the 4" that that actually helped? I do know whatever I did this time the suction is twice as good. Not sure if I more careful when gluing joints or what. I do seem to remember when I did the old system I used cheap HomeDepot pipe that seemed to be out of round and not a great seal. So maybe my old system was inefficient enough where there wasn't enough force to suck dust out of the cyclone. It did still work well on the last one. On this one another thing I notice is with the suction being so strong it actually sucks in the sides of my 50 gallon bin. Could the problem be the lid to the bin not having a great seal because of the deformed bin? 
ANy thoughts would be great!


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

Sounds like your cyclone geometry is off. It needs that seal and it needs the right angle inlet pipe inside pointing the right direction to create the centrifugal force to drop out the chips.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

Welcome to the forum. Can you post some photos of your setup?


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Sounds like the lid isn’t sealed. If it’s distorting that much, you need a different bin.

Is this a home made system or commercial?


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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

ahelwig said:


> ..... First I don't actually use a filter. In the old house I reduced the output to a 4" and then ran it up through the roof. It was great, never had a filter to maintain. I would check from time to time and never saw any shavings existing the exhaust. Now on the new house I ran 6" up through the roof and out.
> 
> Do you think on the old system by restricting the exhaust down to the 4" that that actually helped? I do know whatever I did this time the suction is twice as good.


ASSUMING everthing else is the the same or close I think that is the problem. Basic trouble shooting says start with what changed last.

You went from 12.5 square inches to 28 square inches in your duct. So if your is fan capable you have dramatically increased your air volume. You have MUCH better air flow/velocity and that is what moves the dust in chips in the air. The volume of air flowing through.


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## ahelwig (Oct 4, 2021)

Here is a couple photos. The one 6" goes down under slab, around the shop, and reduces to 4" at each tool. The other 6" goes up through the roof. Im hoping its as easy as the garbage can letting in too much air. You cant see it here because its not running but the sides of the can suck in a bit. Im sure this deforms the rim and causes the lid to not have a good seal. Otherwise, what is my fix? restricting the exhaust?


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## WishfulThinking (May 4, 2020)

My bet is it's the seal of the bin. The stock lid of a garbage can is not sealed at all. If sealed, air does not generally travel up from the bin into the cyclone, so dust can fall from the cyclone into the bin. But if not sealed, air will get sucked in from the bin into the motor, and that upward airflow won't allow anything to fall into the bin.

Best bet is use a much sturdier bin with a sealed lid. If you can't source that, then at least build a plywood lid (2 layers, one the same ID as your bin so it stays round, top layer is the same OD as your bin, and add weatherstripping). Then reinforce your bin with another identical one and cut the handles off so they can be stack one inside the other.

Good luck!

Sent from my ELE-L04 using Tapatalk


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

What size blower you have there?

I'll offer a couple thoughts:

1. In your prior set up, the 4" outlet exaust was creating back pressure, which allowed you to get away with the plastic drum. Now with 6" you've removed that impediment and increased the blower efficiency, hence the can collapsing.
,
2. Something about the seal on the bin

I have the exact same Rubbermaid Brute for mine. I stapled a bicycle inner tube to the rim of the drum for a seal. works quite well, but my blower is 1 1/2HP w/ a Super Dust Deputy.

Those sharp bends at the inlet are not good for airflow. You want as straight a shot into the cyclone as possible.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Finally, a dust collector that creates a high volume, high pressure dust collector! I originally stated it used 3 shop vac blower motors, but I couldn't find that in any of the product descriptions. Finally, I found it:
*Powered by three high-pressure blowers working in sync, the Supercell's high suction creates an intense vacuum system that moves the dust-laden air at a relentless pace, overcoming the resistance through up to 100 feet of 4" hose and ductwork!* 
It makes 10X the suction of ordinary DCs:








Supercell High-Pressure HEPA Cyclone Dust Collector 230V | Oneida Air Systems


Universal design collects from any 1




www.oneida-air.com


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## ahelwig (Oct 4, 2021)

Thx. Im betting its the can. Just too much suction for this can. What are people using for cans with a big system that would hold up to this suction? Id hate to put a 55 gal drum in there, Id never be able to lift it to dump it


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

A fiberboard or heavy plastic bin.

You can put casters on it.


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## ahelwig (Oct 4, 2021)

Im using a heavy duty rubbermaid bruit. Id thought that would stand up to the suction but it doesnt.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

ahelwig said:


> Im using a heavy duty rubbermaid bruit. Id thought that would stand up to the suction but it doesnt.


They are tough but flexible. I think the main reason for the chips going out the exhaust is the flow rate, but probably worth doing something about the trash can too. Either replace it or brace the sides and replace the lid.

A way to replace the lid: 2 discs, 3/4" ply, one a snug fit into the top of the can, the other the outer diameter of the rim, glue them together, maybe some self stick foam weather stripping. It will both reinforce the can and the low pressure will pull it tight. The sides of that Rubbermaid will still want to cave, you'd need to do something about that.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Look up the 55 gallon drums on marketplace and see if anyone local is selling them. There are some plastic ones with sprung latch seals.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)




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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Just pointing out that a 45 gallon drum full of sawdust weighs nearly 80 pounds (36 kilos). A 55 gallon drum full of sawdust weighs just under 100 pounds (44 kilos). More if it absorbs moisture from the air.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Just pointing out that a 45 gallon drum full of sawdust weighs nearly 80 pounds (36 kilos). A 55 gallon drum full of sawdust weighs just under 100 pounds (44 kilos). More if it absorbs moisture from the air.


That's why I use 30 gal cardboard drums. Even 3/4 full they are fairly heavy. I have to carry it down 15 steps to the ground floor to empty it. My fingernails need to get under the thin metal rim, and I hang on for dear life, SO, I need to put handles on them, right?

Quoting from a different thread:
woodworkingtalk.com/threads/dust-collection-in-woodnthings-shop-part-1.20273/#post-158261
The trickiest part was an adaptor made of 2 feeding trays from Tractor Supply with almost the entire bottom removed from each one, then taped together one up, one down.
The dust barrel weighs about 45 to 50 lbs when 3/4 full. That's about all I can carry with my finger tips under the rim down 15 stairs to the ground. The dust goes into the compost pile and some compost activator will help the worms grow fatter.


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## Richard22 (Feb 5, 2018)

I had the same issue at first. The seal between the can and cyclone was leaking. So everything goes out instead in the can. I cut a dado for the 30 gal metal can to sit into the suction holds it in place. Then I wedge tapered 2x4’s under the can to hold it when its not running.

the more exhaust you have the better. I have to Wynn canister filters on mine.


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