# Blotchy staining results, what did I do wrong?



## nowwhatnapster (Nov 10, 2008)

I recently bought a house and I am refinishing all the pine windows and moulding. I have completed a few rooms and the windows/moulding look 300% better. I am quite pleased with the result. I am tackling the spare bedroom right now which has the most abused wood. Around the door frames the moulding could not be sanded back to life. My only option was to replace it.

I went to my local HD to see if I could find moulding that matched. I found "stain" grade pine in the correct style, however it was about 1/16” thinner than the 1950's moulding. I decided to replace all the moulding around two door frames because of the thickness difference.

I installed the moulding on one door frame and prepared to stain it to match. I vacuumed and tack clothed the new moulding. Mixed some stain and tested on some scrap until I found a good combination. (I mixed brands, zar and minwax). I started staining the moulding. Initially I thought the color was a good match, but as I progressed around the door frame it started to absorb darker and lighter with very sharp transitions. As you will see in the pictures below the trim on the right is very blotchy looking. I am very dissatisfied with the result and I am not sure why it happened. 

I am ok with removing this trim and starting over if need be. I did not experience these problems with the 1950’s wood I was refinishing. I used the exact same process, except the 1950’s wood was varnished, neglected for 62 years and then sanded to a final grit of 120 before staining.

Should I have sanded the new moulding before staining?
Should I have used a pre-stain product?
Did HD sell me an inferior product? 
Thoughts?


Note the blotchy-ness of the moulding on the right hand side. Even the left side exhibits some of this near the top, but I attributed it to the grain. 









Close up of the right side moulding blotchy-ness








Bottom section of right side moulding. Very blotchy








Left side moulding, mostly even toned. I thought it was acceptable.








This is a window which is stained, but not polyurethaned yet. It was fully sanded due to excessive dents, scratches and mildew. Note it is fairly even toned, given the neglect its seen I am pleased with the result. It is on par with other windows I've done in the house.








Close-up of same window.


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## piece of ash (Oct 7, 2012)

Pine is known for this... I think you're seeing the difference between old and new pine... the old pine is drier and straighter.

Looks like wood... just put the clear on.l


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## nowwhatnapster (Nov 10, 2008)

Apparently, pine does that.... Or at least non-oldgrowth pine does that. Thanks for cluing me in.

Unfortunately, I am not satisfied with the result and I intend to do better. I think I will buy some minwax pre-stain conditioner tomorrow. I have more trim to stain. I might even sand them lightly for good luck.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The step you missed was using a wood conditioner. The density of pine will vary from spot to spot and the wood conditioner will even up the density a bit so the stain will go on more uniform. Its basically a thin finish which the soft parts of the wood will soak up more of the conditioner like your stain did. Once dried there is not so much difference in density so you don't have this problem. With the amount of work involved in getting rid of the blotchy spots I believe I would replace the trim. It can be done but takes a lot of sanding.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Sanding them to remove machine marks couldn't hurt. Also I've come to accept that just about anything you purchase from a big box retailer in the way of lumber is going to be crap. Plantation pine is very soft, so stain penetrates very easily. When you encounter a hard spot in the grain, your penetration and color varies. Try a pre stain conditioner. Be sue to let it dry completely before applying stain, as its purpose is to partially fill the softer spots, making for a more even finish color. I have tried both water and oil based stains, and achieved much better results with oil. Whichever product you're working with, be sure to use a conditioner with the same base.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Haha Steve posted as I was typing, apparently. Otherwise I'd have spared you the redundancy.


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## nowwhatnapster (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks for the input. I bought the preconditioner and tried it on some scrap. Unfortunately the stain combination I made yesterday does not absorb hardly at all. It is many shades lighter. Do I need darker stains to start with or multiple applications of stain? I dont have a photo at the moment.

Also, being foolish, I went and put the pre conditioner on the wood I intended to stain today. Now I am not sure I will be able to figure out the correct stain combination in the two hour window that the preconditioner says I have to stain. If I let the conditioner sit on the wood past the two hour window, will the wood be usable after? would I reapply the conditoner?


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

I wouldn't reapply the conditioner. How did you apply it? Did you leave it on or wipe it off? If the conditioner was applied too heavy, it's possible that it may have sealed the grain too completely. Sand it with a 180x paper and try again, see if there's any change.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Now you know the reason to make a sample before you start. :yes:

When you make a sample on a scrap piece of the same wood you can figure out how thin to make the conditioner and how dark the stain has to be and if you like how it looks so you don't have to sand it all down again.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Some conditioners are very specific as to how to apply, how long to wait, and what tpe of stains that can be used. At this stage, you might try a gel stain, as they don't really care what's underneath. You may find a color that will be acceptable and make it all look even colored. You can use right on top of what you have. Follow the directions on the product.









 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You can't really put multiple coats of oil stain to make it darker. If you manage to layer it on the surface the stain will interfere with the adhesion of the finish. A darker stain would be a better choice or you could add to the color with toners or an aniline dye. The dye however is better sprayed on so you would have to mask the immediate area to keep the dye off the wall. You might also be able to adjust the color with a jell stain but I personally prefer a more transparent finish. It sounds like the conditioner was too concentrated for the wood you have and needs to be thinned. You may be able to wash some of it off with lacquer thinner however you will have to work out a new finish procedure. Like Rick said, you need to work out the finish procedure on scraps before you jump into it.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> You might also be able to adjust the color with a jell stain but I personally prefer a more transparent finish.


A gel stain's finish is dependent on how much is applied and how much is wiped off. How transparent it can be is in how it's used.









 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> A gel stain's finish is dependent on how much is applied and how much is wiped off. How transparent it can be is in how it's used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 A gel stain is essentually a thinned down enamel. It could never be as transparent as an oil stain or ink dye.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

nowwhatnapster said:


> I recently bought a house and I am refinishing all the pine windows and moulding. I have completed a few rooms and the windows/moulding look 300% better. I am quite pleased with the result. I am tackling the spare bedroom right now which has the most abused wood. Around the door frames the moulding could not be sanded back to life. My only option was to replace it.
> 
> I went to my local HD to see if I could find moulding that matched. I found "stain" grade pine in the correct style, however it was about 1/16” thinner than the 1950's moulding. I decided to replace all the moulding around two door frames because of the thickness difference.
> 
> ...


what this video on blotching. I use this product on all my wood item's and don't get blotching. what blotching is soft wood and hard wood on the same piece. This blotch control does is seal the soft wood and than it will stain even. some say to use shellac but i only use charles neil stuff now for a couple yrs. works fine good luck


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Interesting. I hope it helps.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Pine is deeply aggravating to stain. I've been using the Minwax oil base stains for time now.

Using their wood conditioner does help with blotchiness. But it makes whatever finish you are putting on quite a bit lighter. Basically, the stain seems to "float" on top of the wood conditioner and so the color doesn't penetrate as deeply. But it does help with blotchiness.

One thing you can try is to keep applying coats of stain. Each coat will darken the wood a little more. I notice when I use the wood conditioner I always have to do 2 coats to get the desired color.


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## Calzone (May 15, 2012)

A conditioner is nothing more than a varnish or a shellac dilluted to around 6% solids content. When you buy a container of Let's saaay Polyurethane, it is at 30% solids content. If you add one part polyurethane and five parts mineral spirits, you can essentially make your own conditioner! Add six parts instead of five parts mineral spirits, and it becomes slightly more viscous, and less prone to the problems you're having where it doesn't penetrate enough. 

If you were really anal about everything being just right, you wouldn't use pine unless everything else was pine, and if you were doing that, i'd say ammonia fumigation. 

And y'know, read the cans to get a general idea of how long you should leave the stain on the surface. If the stain isn't working or darkening enough, buy a slightly darker stain. Or hell, make your own!
All a stain is is color small enough to fit into the pores of wood diluted in an evaporative vehicle.


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