# Utterly confused about dust collection



## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

I just recently moved to a new place that has a dedicated shop area (24x24 garage separate from a 2 car garage used to park my cars) - so I was thrilled and excited to get back into woodworking in a whole new way (before I had a small portion of a 1 car garage)... I've ordered some newer, better power tools as upgrades from my entry-level stuff that I've used on some small furniture projects.

I've never had a dust collector (outside of a small shop vac) but I definitely want to 'do it right' now in my new shop. I started on this forum looking around in the dust collection area, and saw many references to the Bill Pentz website, which seemed to be a great starting place. Unfortunately, a couple hours into that site I am thoroughly scared, confused, and a little dejected. (Nothing against Bill or his great site)

Not sure if he meant for it, but I came away from his site:
1. Scared that the hobby I'm so excited to get into comes with great health risks from dust
2. For starters, I need a Cyclone system like he has (which sells for around $1500 at his referred, clearvuecyclones)
3. Even if I buy the $1500 system, I still need hoses, filters, blower/motor, and more?

What I'm asking, can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, what I should look into (specific models would be great), I really don't want to build a cyclone or anything myself, would rather buy something, set it up, and be done. I get confused, I see a link, etc to a Harbor Freight system, but even if I buy that, what else do I need, etc. 

For what its worth, I only run one tool at a time. I have a table saw, planer, router etc.

Thanks much for helping clear up my confusion!


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## doug1980 (Mar 28, 2011)

While I'm sure there may be some health risks, I have worked in a sawmill for 10 years with no ill affects. An air filtration unit would be more beneficial for collecting the fine dust that gets breathed in. I suggest you get one of those and a bag style dust collector versus the expensive cyclone version.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Lots of good info here.

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm :smile:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Clive Driscoll said:


> I just recently moved to a new place that has a dedicated shop area (24x24 garage separate from a 2 car garage used to park my cars) - so I was thrilled and excited to get back into woodworking in a whole new way (before I had a small portion of a 1 car garage)... I've ordered some newer, better power tools as upgrades from my entry-level stuff that I've used on some small furniture projects.
> 
> I've never had a dust collector (outside of a small shop vac) but I definitely want to 'do it right' now in my new shop. I started on this forum looking around in the dust collection area, and saw many references to the Bill Pentz website, which seemed to be a great starting place. Unfortunately, a couple hours into that site I am thoroughly scared, confused, and a little dejected. (Nothing against Bill or his great site)
> 
> ...


While Bill's site has a lot of info it does seem to make it sound like you need a monster 5 hp dust collector/cyclone system. 

I have a 1 1/2 dust collector but there are a lot of members using and liking the HF dust collector, 2 hp and cheap price. You can look here for info on what members think.

A cyclone is nice but again you can get by with out. Make a Thien separator which is better than just a DC and not as good or expensive as a large cyclone.

You can get by with a respirator not a mask but dust collection is much better.

Spend the extra for a canister filter they filter better and improve suction


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## dwendt1978 (Mar 13, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> Lots of good info here.
> 
> http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm :smile:


I got a laugh out of this mdntrdr! Not sure if you read his whole post but that is the website that scared him!!

Grab an issue of WOOD magazine. Inside is a coupon for the HF DC. You can get it for 149.99. Add a Wynn Environmental cannister filter that is .5 micron believe they are around 140.00 shipped.

You can also add a ceiling mount air filtration unit as well. These run around 300-400 for a nice one. 

When sanding, wear a dust mask and build yourself a downdraft table hooked to your DC.

You'll be fine. :thumbsup:


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

dwendt1978 said:


> I got a laugh out of this mdntrdr! Not sure if you read his whole post but that is the website that scared him!!


 
Don't be scared... education is the key to quality systems. :smile:


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I don't know of a lot of hobby's that don't have dangers. All the fun ones do at least. Get a good respirator if you want clean air. I disagree with getting an air cleaner before a dust collector. By the time the air is circulated you'll have breathed enough that the damage is done. Collect it at it's source. Unless you have a lot of money you'll be like most of us. Get a good respirator, add a DC as soon as you can, then add the cleaner last. Between the three you'll be safe. Try on different respirators and masks though, find one that is comfortable and one that fits your face and glasses. If it isn't comfy, you won't wear it.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I love Bill Pentz' info, however his assertions are in SLIGHT disagreement with other engineers I know. Mind you, engineers tend to, well over engineer everything. But sometimes that is for the best... He takes the really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really safe approach to dust colletion.

YES sawdust can contain things that can make you sick. So can your house, your office, your car etc... 

Typically I have seen the most effective systems have the following traits...

#1. An ambient air filter system. Either a commercially produced one, OR a home brewed job. Just something to suck air through some fine filtration filters is all you need. It can be as simple as a $20.00 box fan with a 20x20 Filtrete Ultimate Allergen filter duct taped to it...
#2. A minimum 1.5HP dust collector. The HF 2HP DC is common, and cheap. Just make sure that whatever DC you get either already has a 1 micron filter, OR upgrade it to a 1 micron filter. Pleated filters offer better air flow and longer run time to clogging due to greater surface area.
#3. A separator of some sort, either a trash can pre separator before the DC, a baffle in the inlet ring of the DC, or at the very least, a neutral vane. The Thien baffle / separator is a great setup. If you go with a trash can / drum separator, try to get or build one with an inlet and outlet to match the inlet size of your DC.
#4. Make NO sharp bends in your ducting or hose. If you must make a 90 degree turn make it gradually with sweep elbows, or 2 45 degree elbows and a section of pipe... 
#5. Keep flex hose to the absolute minimum.
#6. Think of ducting like a road, and air like a car. Sharp turns means you have to slow down, lots of bumps and ridges mean you have to slow down. Same is true with air flow...
#7. Ports on machines are just as important. Many machines allow you to pick up dust on the bottom, not many allow you to pick up on the top. There are upgrades, many of which can be cheaply, and easily shop built... Remember both ends!

To build an effective bottom dollar DC system figure the following costs...

HF 2HP Industrial Dust Collector model #97869 Coupon price from Jan Wood Magazine good until May this year, $139.00
Highland Woodworking 1 micron 20x32 Shaker Felt dust filter bag $29.99 to replace the OEM 5 micron bag.
HF Dust Collector accessory kit, mostly for the hoses, and machine hoods, $44.99 use the 20% off coupon to save on that and get it down to $36.00 even.
Scrap lumber Thien baffle $0.00
Scrap lumber and S&D 4" PVC dust hoods. The cost of a 10' joint of S&D PVC, around here it's $6.00

That gets you in the door at $210.99. You will have to move hoses from machine to machine, but that shouldn't be a big deal, LOTS of guys do that...

Next is the air filter. Like I said, catch a box fan on sale for $20.00, and get at least a MERV12 filter, the higher the number the better. I think the Ultimate allergen Filtrete is MERV 15, and runs about $16.00, so you are out $36.00 and some duct tape for that...

Everything after that is elaborating the art, going from good and workable to fantastic...

Unless you are made of nothing but money, chances are you can't afford a system that will get every single bit of dust, and some operations just don't lend themselves well to dust collection. For those circumstances, I use a respirator. Hand sanding is one of those times...


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## xphnmn (Dec 7, 2009)

*Just my 2 cents worth.*

Get the Harbor Freight dust collector. It's well worth the money whether you get it on sale or with a coupon. You can upgrade it to a 1 micron cannister for another $100. It will filter smaller particles and flow much better. S&D (marked on the side D 2729) pipe is carried by many local hardware stores and also by Lowes. I paid 6.99 for a ten foot section at my local True Value. Lowes was higher. In my experience, Lowes has a better selection of fittings for it tho and oddly are a little cheaper on the fittings. Some places call it thinwall sewer pipe or drainage pipe. One place I checked out called the fittings schedule 30. Not real sure about the correctness of that though.Rockler has adapters for flex hose to use with it and their blast gates and adapters fit inside it perfectly. Schedule 40 DWV pipe can also be used but is more expensive and heavier. Also the flex hose doesnt work with it as well and neither do the adapters. Lastly, don't glue the pipe. Use caulking and/or aluminum tape. You may want to reconfigure, move tools or add a new tool later.


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## dwendt1978 (Mar 13, 2010)

xphnmn said:


> Schedule 40 DWV pipe can also be used but is more expensive and heavier. Also the flex hose doesnt work with it as well and neither do the adapters.


The Sch40 pipe fits the blast gates perfect. Very snug. For sch40 you pay more for the fittings but you don't need adapters for the blast gates like you will the thin wall. Flex hose just slides over blast gate for a great fit as well.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

ACP said:


> I don't know of a lot of hobby's that don't have dangers. All the fun ones do at least. Get a good respirator if you want clean air. I disagree with getting an air cleaner before a dust collector. By the time the air is circulated you'll have breathed enough that the damage is done. Collect it at it's source. Unless you have a lot of money you'll be like most of us. Get a good respirator, add a DC as soon as you can, then add the cleaner last. Between the three you'll be safe. Try on different respirators and masks though, find one that is comfortable and one that fits your face and glasses. If it isn't comfy, you won't wear it.


 
I agree with ACP here... buy the dust collector as soon as possible and collect the dust at its source... Add a thien separator shortly afterward (relatively cheap to make if your are resourceful), then the cartridge filter. 

You can make a very thrifty air cleaner with a simple box fan and a couple of good air filters that will filter the air. While it doesn't do as good a job as the $300-$400 ones, for its price, it does a heck of a job. you can see a pick of it in this following thread:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/how-many-add-air-filter-along-dust-collector-16856/

Woodnthings posted a pic of it in post #6.

At least this is how I went about it, and I don't regret it.

Fabian


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## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice!! I ended up ordering the HF 2 HP Dust collector and the Wynn 35A Package - should have both in a couple weeks. I also want to either make or purchase a ceiling mount air filter.

I'm still a bit confused on what a Thien baffle is, how to add one, if there is a way to buy one or I have to make it myself, etc? I know there are several references, is there a way I can buy one that will work with my HF dc?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*This will show you*

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/jet-hf-dust-collector-thien-mods-25178/


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