# How flat does a bandsaw table need to be?



## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

For some reason I never even thought to check the table flatness on my new bandsaw however today I just happened to set a piece of wood on edge across the table and noticed a pretty good size gap. At first I thought it was the workpiece so I checked with a straight edge but it was flat so I took a measurement and sure enough there was a full 1/16" gap just left of center from the front of the table all the way up to the blade! I mainly use the bandsaw for making templates and rough cutting blanks for template routing so I haven't noticed any issues. Any thoughts on what kind of problems this may cause with other types of cuts I'll probably end up doing at some time?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Does it tilt right?*

If so, that's the issue.:laughing: Don't stand for this on a "new" saw. You deserve a flat table. Looks like a Delta? Maybe Jet? They should replace for you.... you have a lot of friends here.....:yes: bill
As far as how flat, I'd say, "flattrnthnat!"
There may be a "fix" by shimming the trunion attachments underneath, but it just doesn't seem right to me.
There is straight and there is flat. A hyperbolic paraboloid has straight elements but is far from flat. My advice, is to remove the bandsaw table and place it on the table saw table and see if it rocks. Any portion of it may be straight but the entire surface may not be flat or in one geometric plane. The tapered pin is supposed to align the table surfaces because of the slot. It may have been improperly machined and the surfaces are now out of plane. Remove the pin while it's on the saw table and see if that makes it better or worse. Let us know when you get your new table......heh..heh...bill


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

"so I checked with a straight edge but it was flat "

Is the table flat or not? 

Is the issue flatness or is the issue that there is a joint in the table that is "a full 1/16" gap just left of center?"

G


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## John in Tennessee (Jun 11, 2008)

*I built a stand for my miter saw and*

could not get it to sit level. Trimed it twice and found out my floor wasn't on the level.


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## mickit (Oct 5, 2009)

The chaiwan deltas are bed for this...the CI is not allowed to "rest" before grinding, The grinds are done nearly dry...warp up like "nanners" Jets and Grizzlys are made the same. 
Best bet is to have it replaced on warranty...next best, take it to a "real" machine shop and have it Blanchard ground. Kinda spendy though. Third option is really iffy but I've heard it works. Never tried it, and never seen it done...but the principle seems to be the same as curing a CI skillet. low heat on a known true surface (face down of course) and lots of weight on top). make sure that the alignment pin is in pretty stout.What I read is two to three days in a pit with coals covered with dirt.
Don't know if it works, never tried it...probably never will., but the guy seemed to know what he was talking about. Claimed to have straightened old swords and knives usint this process.


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> *Does it tilt right? *If so, that's the issue.:laughing: Don't stand for this on a "new" saw. You deserve a flat table. Looks like a Delta? Maybe Jet? They should replace for you.... you have a lot of friends here.....:yes: bill
> As far as how flat, I'd say, "flattrnthnat!"
> There may be a "fix" by shimming the trunion attachments underneath, but it just doesn't seem right to me.
> There is straight and there is flat. A hyperbolic paraboloid has straight elements but is far from flat. My advice, is to remove the bandsaw table and place it on the table saw table and see if it rocks. Any portion of it may be straight but the entire surface may not be flat or in one geometric plane. The tapered pin is supposed to align the table surfaces because of the slot. It may have been improperly machined and the surfaces are now out of plane. Remove the pin while it's on the saw table and see if that makes it better or worse. Let us know when you get your new table......heh..heh...bill


I knew I should have bought a left tilting bandsaw!  I put a pair of winding sticks on it and it also appears to be twisted so I'm going to see about having it replaced.



GeorgeC said:


> "so I checked with a straight edge but it was flat "
> 
> Is the table flat or not?
> 
> ...


I first checked _the_ _piece of wood_ with a straight edge thinking it had a bow but after finding it was flat I realized it must be the table so I checked that (I used the piece of wood in the picture because the straight edge would not stand on it's edge :smile. What I meant concerning where I measured is that just left of center is where the deepest dip is at 1/16".

BTW, it is a Delta and this is not the only issue I am having. It also vibrates WAY more than my old one and the Delta rep came by but could not figure out exactly why. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking about just taking the whole doggone thing back and getting something else. I haven't purchased any large tools in quite a while and 3 of the 4 Delta tools I have purchased recently have had problems (my _right tilting_ Unisaw is the only one that works as it should!)


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

According to Delta it is most likely the trunnions that got bent in shipping and there is no service center near me to diagnose the vibration problem (I'm not going to spend my time doing it) so I'm just going to take it back. The Rikon clone at Sears is at the top of my list for replacement right now since it gets great reviews however if anyone has suggestions on another 14" bandsaw I'm all ears.


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## John in Tennessee (Jun 11, 2008)

*I have a Rigid*

That does a pretty good job.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Marv woodcraft has a sale*

Probably only locally I don't know. 14" Deluxe Rikon 1 1/2 HP reg $799.99 sale $699.99 plus $75 gift card 
Sterling Hts, MI (586) 268 1919 Oct 23 and 24th. FYI :thumbsup: bill
Sometimes other stores will match or beat a price for you locally
www.woodcraft.com free ground shipping before Oct 24!
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020041/18855/Rikon-14-Deluxe-Bandsaw.aspx
This saw has 13" resaw capacity!!!!!!


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## mattclara (Oct 19, 2009)

Marv said:


> According to Delta it is most likely the trunnions that got bent in shipping and there is no service center near me to diagnose the vibration problem (I'm not going to spend my time doing it) so I'm just going to take it back. The Rikon clone at Sears is at the top of my list for replacement right now since it gets great reviews however if anyone has suggestions on another 14" bandsaw I'm all ears.


I hope you're not going by the reviews on the sears site. Those are moderated by sears. I'm still waiting for my negative review of their 12 inch craftsman band saw to show up. That saw had over 45 reviews, only a couple negative. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be a cut rate saw that lacked precision all the way around.


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## mickit (Oct 5, 2009)

Marv said:


> According to Delta it is most likely the trunnions that got bent in shipping and there is no service center near me to diagnose the vibration problem (I'm not going to spend my time doing it) so I'm just going to take it back. The Rikon clone at Sears is at the top of my list for replacement right now since it gets great reviews however if anyone has suggestions on another 14" bandsaw I'm all ears.


The trunnions on the delta 14's are made of a very light mystery metal. I rarely saw a bent one, but I saw a lot of broken ones.
Could be wrong but I think that the force required to warp a piece of cast iron would simply shatter the trunnions. More likely would be the trunnion support which is bolted to the lower frame, but my money's on the table.


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

mattclara said:


> I hope you're not going by the reviews on the sears site. Those are moderated by sears. I'm still waiting for my negative review of their 12 inch craftsman band saw to show up. That saw had over 45 reviews, only a couple negative. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be a cut rate saw that lacked precision all the way around.


I have read the Sears reviews and it appears they post the negative ones as well as have a column for "most helpful negative review". In any case I prefer reviews on forums like this (very positive for the most part) and this time I'm going to actually go check one out myself. 



mickit said:


> The trunnions on the delta 14's are made of a very light mystery metal. I rarely saw a bent one, but I saw a lot of broken ones.
> Could be wrong but I think that the force required to warp a piece of cast iron would simply shatter the trunnions. More likely would be the trunnion support which is bolted to the lower frame, but my money's on the table.


Actually I think he did say trunnion "support" however by that time in the conversation I had already decided I was just going to return it so I wasn't really listening too well. :smile:.


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## Kender (Apr 20, 2009)

Grizzly G0555


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

Took the Delta 14" back and came across this Delta 28-682 18" that happens to be near me. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170403239327&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT 

I don't really _need_ this much bandsaw however it seems to be a good price and the best thing is I can try it before buying this time. I'm finding mixed reviews so I was wondering if anybody here had one/has tried one and can comment on it?


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## Michael Paul (Nov 6, 2009)

*I would say as flat as you can get it.*

I would say after looking at your pics you may run into some issues if you continue to use the ban saw that way. 

I would check any adjustments and see if I can get the saw to adjust to be more flat. If you check everything and there is nothing else you can do I would take it back and return it.

One thing I usually do and you can do as well is take a straight edge with you when you go to purchase your next one and check it in the store before you purchase it.

More than likely it's a manufacturing defect...


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

Michael Paul said:


> I would say after looking at your pics you may run into some issues if you continue to use the ban saw that way.
> 
> I would check any adjustments and see if I can get the saw to adjust to be more flat. If you check everything and there is nothing else you can do I would take it back and return it.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing you didn't read my post right above yours.


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## Michael Paul (Nov 6, 2009)

Marv said:


> I'm guessing you didn't read my post right above yours.



Nope I didn't See It.:no:


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Check out the bandsaws from Laguna. They are more expensive, but cut extremely well. There is a video showing the resaw capabilities that is amazing. A friend of mine has had one for 5+ years after going through several others. If you can afford the saw, it will last you a lifetime. (or about the time you get it paid off) It will also rip boards with 98% precision of what a good table saw will do, at least in their H.D. line. Here's a link to their 14' saw that was rated #1 by Fine Woodworking. http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws...9ea7e2459b84ecfb.e3eSc38TaNqNe34Pa38Ta3aLch90 Also check their used/ demo machinery for lower prices. My friend was able to bargain a little on his. (I don't know if he bought a demo or new model)


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

After researching a bit more this time and checking out several bandsaws I had pretty much decided to go with the Craftsman 14". It was on sale recently and before heading over to Sears I decided to take a quick look on craigslist just in case. To my surprise a contractor had just listed a 14" Delta X5 with a 1.5hp motor that had only been used on one job to make some corbels for a custom house. After researching this one (nice to see it was made in the USA :smile I went to check it out and sure enough it had barely been used, the table was perfectly flat and there was very little vibration (unlike the one I started this thread about!). I next checked all of the guides/adjustments etc and found everything was tight/worked smoothly (again unlike the first one). He was asking $650.00 based on internet pricing of around $900.00 and after a very short negotiation (while holding the cash in my hand :smile he settled for $450.00 delivered!

After getting it here I cleaned the coating they had applied to the table when it was put in storage and noticed right away that the top was finished much finer than the first one. Also, the table tilted with ease (unlike the first one however that may have been due to the possibly damaged trunnion support) and after just letting it run for a while to "loosen up" the little vibration it had was just about non existent. The saw works flawlessly and I found that the integrated dust chute in the stand with a shroud over the lower guide captured nearly all of the dust from the MDF test pieces I cut. I'd like to think that this one being made in the USA :smile: has something to do with the obvious better quality (I'm not knocking imports by any means!) and all in all I think my patience paid off this time. Thanks to Bill/skeaterbait and others who offered their opinions recently and I'm off to give it a good workout! :smile:

BTW, recently I was at the local tool shop where I returned the other bandsaw and I couldn't believe they actually put it back up for sale on the display floor with the twisted table still on it (my bet is the vibration is still there as well).


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

While surfing around craigslist recently I came across a posting for an "as new" Delta 28-276 like the first one I took back. The price seemed "too good to be true" (which led me to believe it may have had the same/similar problems my first one had) however it was close by so I decided to go check it out "just in case" as I could use it for scroll work as long as it worked OK. To my surprise it had a flat table with a much finer finish, better finished castings, no vibration and much better overall fit/finish (turns out the reason for the super low price was the guy needed it gone right away since he was in the middle of moving and found he couldn't take it). I guess the quality on some of these imports is "hit or miss" since this one appears to be on a totally different level than the other one (not quite on the level of the American built X5 :smile or maybe they use more than one factory. :confused1:


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