# How do you make plans?



## ExcessLockup (Oct 7, 2018)

Do you use a pencil and paper, software, or a mix of both?

For the small things I've made a pen and paper was enough, however for larger/more complex projects I'd probably use some CAD software. I'm interested in hearing other peoples design methods.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm old so I don't think of a computer for that purpose. When I make plans I draw it with pencil and paper.


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## ExcessLockup (Oct 7, 2018)

I'm currently studying mechanical engineering so have done a lot of CAD work. My pencil and paper plans don't amount to much more than rough sketches, I wouldn't know where to start drawing something complex.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I don't use "plans' ...*

I make dimensional drawings with overall measurements, Length,Width and Height. Joinery is basically rabbets, half-laps or mortise and tenon, so no mystery there. If there is a specific curve I make a full size drawing then a template I can trace it on the workpiece or use a router to duplicate it. 

I have an Architectural drafting background starting in high school and carried through college. Being able to visualize in 3 dimensions is very helpful and if that's a skill you have, plans will come easier. I have NO computer software skills, but if you can use Sketch Up GREAT! It does remarkable things. :smile2:


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## ExcessLockup (Oct 7, 2018)

That seems like a good way to do it. I can visualize things in 3D, I agree it's a useful skill, I'm just not as good at translating that into a drawing.
Using CAD software so much means I'm used to being able to change dimensions/locations and get an automatically updated drawing which has made my ability to think about dimensions before I start drawing worse.


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## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Pencil and paper works just fine. I tried to learn CAD at one point but never got the hang of it. I'm good friends with a drafting teacher so I probably should at some point. 



-T


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

I draw everything out in my mind and never write or sketch anything down other than occasionally some measurements. Most of the time not even that. I actually feel like I get worse results if I try to follow a plan. If I figure it out step by step on my own the project just starts to flow. If I can't see it in my head, including the math/measurements and methods I'm going to use, it just won't happen.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I envy those who are fast and skilled with computer drawing programs. I use pencil and paper to make a rough sketch and to write down dimensions. 

I have good computer and math skills, but no artistic talent or ability. I can't draw beyond stick figures. I know the basics of how to use drawing tools (basic shapes, alignment, etc.), but have no real skills there, either. I struggle with 2D, and have never tried 3D. 

Yes, I know that if I put in time, effort, and practice, I could do better with computer-aided drawing, but motivation and time are limiting factors.


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## ExcessLockup (Oct 7, 2018)

Tool Agnostic said:


> I envy those who are fast and skilled with computer drawing programs. I use pencil and paper to make a rough sketch and to write down dimensions.


I prefer using a computer because it's what I'm most comfortable and experienced with, but I don't think anything can beat the speed of a quick sketch and jotting down some critical dimensions.


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## GuitarPhotographer (Jun 26, 2015)

I have learned and used CAD software in the past, when I had need and use for it, but these days, I just make sketches with pencil and paper. I've tried learning SketchUp and it "plumb evades me," so I continue with "Charlie CAD."


But these days, I find I make fewer drawings, and more often I just work from a list of dimensions written on a scrap of paper, or more often wood, with the "drawing" in my head.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

ExcessLockup said:


> I prefer using a computer because it's what I'm most comfortable and experienced with, but I don't think anything can beat the speed of a quick sketch and jotting down some critical dimensions.


same here. i think in 2D from my years of looking at blueprints. nice thing about cad, i use autocad, is you draw full scale all the time. this makes it easy to dimension pieces. you can draw your shop and place tools. draw a house and move walls without much effort. draw a stereo cabinet with all the components. maybe it's just the enginerd in me
though nothing beats a quick sketch for simple projects


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Sketch pad, graph paper, various pencils including color pencils, etc. On more involved projects, I then enter each part into a spreadsheet with both rough and finished dimensions, and any notes. That helps me figure material needs, and is basically a cut list. I don’t have the patience to learn Sketch Up (I tried) as it feels like I’m in slow motion.


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

Pencil and paper. Never had a problem with the pencil crashing or having to update. Just sharpen it and keep going. My drafting experience goes back to the mid 60s. Does that tell you anything?


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## sassyhacksaws (Mar 2, 2018)

I like to do a rough sketch on paper so I know the general design of what I want. Then I take it to Sketchup for modeling, so I can get some more precise measurements. Granted, those measurements are likely to change during the build, but it helps knowing what I need to do with numbers I can read a week later.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

My wife makes the plans in our house, I just shower and get dressed when she tells me.

I have never been big on plans when I am working on something by myself, a few basic sketches are usually sufficient. When I had the shop and helpers it was more important to have more detailed plans. Fortunately we were supplied by the customer with plans for what we had to build.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

Pencil and paper works very well for me on simple, small projects. I have an engineering background, so I learned in the 70's how to properly create engineering drawings for construction and manufacturing. I have created, reviewed and approved many drawings during my professional engineering career. Being able to visualize how a 2D drawing will look in 3D is a definite benefit in woodworking. I still envy those that can build without drawings...that is certainly a great gift!

TurboCAD is very useful for dimensioning and printing drawings. TurboCAD takes a technical person to learn and use it. I have been using it since 2000 or so. I have completed many projects with plans from TurboCAD including some complex flooring with multiple types of wood. When I need detailed construction drawings I use TurboCAD.

I started using Sketchup around 2010 for designing my woodshop. In order to get the woodshop material flow correct, I used Sketchup. The design also included the construction details: flooring joists, studs, ceiling beams, a 40' ramp (with footers, joists, flooring etc.), staircase, the existing structure, electrical outlets, gas lines, etc. The material flow part of the design included: cabinets, work surfaces, wood working tools (i.e. table saw, jointer, surface planer, etc.). Multiple layers were created in Sketchup to group the electrical, gas lines, walls, floors, material flow, etc. I really wanted to see what Sketchup could do. It did very well except for the dimensioning and printing construction drawings. I had the construction drawings done in TurboCAD based on the Sketchup design.

Sketchup is my software of choice most days for woodworking projects. It is great for creating quick detailed designs. It works really well when I have an idea in my head, but I need to work out the actual artistic part of the project. I have actually created some pieces of furniture in Sketchup, finalized the drawings in Sketchup and then re-created the project in TurboCAD to get all the dimensions correct and print construction drawings. Sketchup really does a terrible job at dimensions. Sketchup also is very poor for printing any construction drawings.

As a new woodworker, pencil and paper works great, but you probably want to add some CAD tool to your design kit. Also, don't forget that you can learn a lot from pre-existing plans that are published in many magazines and books. Lately, I have been purchasing magazine compilations on USB drives. They are a great way to get many years of publications for a great price.

Eric


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Late to the party, but im a big fan of using something like Sketchup to draw out ever part of a project. I like this for two reason, the first is that it gives me a perfect dimension sheet to work of of, and the second is it allows me to make sure that every piece works without having to waste a single piece of wood. It also helps me cut down on mistakes, as im modeling everything im mentally putting the project together, so i can plan out everything for when it comes to making


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

I use other peoples plans. :smile2:


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

ORBlackFZ1 said:


> [...] As a new woodworker, pencil and paper works great, but you probably want to add some CAD tool to your design kit. Also, don't forget that you can learn a lot from pre-existing plans that are published in many magazines and books. Lately, I have been purchasing magazine compilations on USB drives. They are a great way to get many years of publications for a great price. Eric


I like those USB drives as well. What I like most about them is that they are searchable. If you are looking for plans or design ideas for a specific item, a quick search on the computer may yield several articles from several decades. In woodworking, older plans are just as good as recent ones. 

Note: I don't actually use the USB drives. I copy them onto my laptop, so they are always ready. 

Other sources of plans include our local woodworking club. They have a library of CDs and DVDs that you can borrow. Our public library system has many books with plans. Some books are just a compilation of plans. 

Even if you find a plan that you like, you must still use your head. Examine at it carefully. Plans often have errors; the truly bad ones are unbuildable. 

Avoid "Ted's Plans" or anything that tries to sell you "thousands of plans". They are all a scam. They stole free plans from the internet without attribution, and are now selling them for way too much money. People report that the best plans are bad, and the worst plans are completely unbuildable. You have been warned.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

I feel that people should build their own designs, not use the funky ones in the magazines. If the project isn't very complex a nice sketch works fine. The next step would be to use a drawing board, T square, etc. Sketchup (free!) is a great design software. Yes, it has some limitations but is fairly simple to use. There are many tutorials available on line. 

At work we use Top Solid. A great design software, expensive. It integrates with CadCode for the CAM portion, also expensive. Both programs are like all of the professional ones, steep learning curve. Working in parametrics makes for easily modified, very fast output.


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## PPBART (Oct 7, 2011)

Old school. pencil and paper.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Started out with mechanical drawing classes way back when. During my working years, used CADAM, then CATIA, then down scale to DesignCad, then the low end version of Autodesk. Now that I'm retired, its pencil and paper to make sketches and notes, dimensions, etc. Only thing I save is cardboard templates that I make for various projects. Throw them in a file cabinet and forget about them until a similar project comes along. FWIW, Sketchup seems totally unintuitive. Tried it once, struggled with it, gave up.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

A good plan will save you time and allow you to make the best use of your lumber. 
Start with a good plan.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Most of my carving wood arrives as 24" tall shake blocks so most pencil drawings are done on 11" x 17" paper.
Edits are done in different colors so I can compare them all to eachother.


From there, I might make a full scale drawing of a story pole ( 64" - 96") on "banquet paper."
This is the paper table cover stuff, the roll is 36" wide by 100' long.
36" wide is good to enlarge drawings like turtles with a pantograph.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Plans to a new woodworker are all part of the learning process, it is better to follow along and learn, eventually we all strike off on our own. I really envy those that have mastered Sketchup, guess I am just too set in my ways to learn something new, that and the fact that Google had a hand in it at the beginning put me off.

Some of us as we gain experience see where we are going, at this point detailed plans are not so important, once you have built a chest of drawers the second one from what we learned from the first one makes the second one much less complicated.


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## Rich Sheridan (May 24, 2018)

I'm very new to woodworking but I just found this really cool app. Cut list optimizer. I had found plans for something I wanted to make in a magazine but no cut list. After searching and you tubing a bunch of very complicated things I came across this. Just plug in the dimensions you need and what materials you have and it draws out a cut list. Awesome.


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## GANGGREEN (Sep 3, 2018)

I feel completely humbled and saddened by this thread. I'm a fairly new woodworker, I've been monkeying around with some projects for a few years, but it's only been the last few months that I've taken on any furniture building or more complicated shop projects. I used to be quite analytical and was able to visualize things quite easily in any dimension. Sadly, I've been through two bouts of Lyme disease and the most troubling aspect of it for me has been that I've lost a lot of cognitive abilities. I can no longer visualize most things and even reading other peoples' plans is difficult for me unless they're really well laid out and in very simple steps. Even then, I have to really go slow and take one step at a time before even thinking about moving on. 

I have several projects floating around in my head (or in my wife's head or my younger son's head) that I'd like to build at some point soon so I tried to go online and learn to do Sketch-up. While I can tell that it would have been easy for me to figure out and use a few years ago, it leaves my head hurting and leaves me a bit frustrated and even emotional about my inability to handle that sort of stuff now. 

So, for the time being, I'm stuck using very simple plans that I can find online, in books or elsewhere.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

I don’t work from other people’s plans since they may do something like use butt joints for drawers, or biscuits, or dowels or something that they are comfortable working with. I’d rather use dovetails for all my drawers, and mortise and tenon where possible rather then doing it somebody else’s way.

My plans start from a need. A place in a room that needs a certain type of furniture. I start with dimensions of the space I have to work with, then research different types of options for making the piece and look for inspiration. Most pieces start with a look in this book.










First part of the book shows joinery, second part of the book shows subassemblies, such as drawer construction, bases, legs and feet, and discusses dealing with wood movement. The rest of the book shows how woodworkers have been building different types of furniture for centuries. The following is a typical page. It shows typical sizing, design features, special notes and building info, and the rest is up to you. No cut lists, no instructions, just good solid information for woodworkers who know how to build things.










There are dozens of desks, tables, beds, dressers, just about any furniture you’d want to build except chairs. Need a corner table? I’m sure there are some to choose from. Dresser? Dozens of choices.



In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

Terry Q said:


> I don’t work from other people’s plans since they may do something like use butt joints for drawers, or biscuits, or dowels or something that they are comfortable working with. I’d rather use dovetails for all my drawers, and mortise and tenon where possible rather then doing it somebody else’s way.
> 
> My plans start from a need. A place in a room that needs a certain type of furniture. I start with dimensions of the space I have to work with, then research different types of options for making the piece and look for inspiration. Most pieces start with a look in this book.
> 
> ...





Thanks for posting. It is an excellent book! I have used it for years! It gives me great ideas for each furniture project I design and build.



Eric


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

GANGGREEN said:


> I have several projects floating around in my head (or in my wife's head or my younger son's head) that I'd like to build at some point soon so I tried to go online and learn to do Sketch-up. While I can tell that it would have been easy for me to figure out and use a few years ago, it leaves my head hurting and leaves me a bit frustrated and even emotional about my inability to handle that sort of stuff now.
> 
> So, for the time being, I'm stuck using very simple plans that I can find online, in books or elsewhere.



Sorry to hear about your condition. Any chance that you could use this as an opportunity for quality family time in the shop? Maybe your son would like to learn his father's woodworking skills? The younger generation can be better with technology than the previous generation....



Eric


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## GANGGREEN (Sep 3, 2018)

ORBlackFZ1 said:


> Sorry to hear about your condition. Any chance that you could use this as an opportunity for quality family time in the shop? Maybe your son would like to learn his father's woodworking skills? The younger generation can be better with technology than the previous generation....
> 
> 
> 
> Eric


I'd love for that to happen and I'm quite sure he'd handle the technology and even teach me a bit about how Sketch-up or other programs worked. It's one of the few activities that at least one of my two sons really enjoys doing with me and I'll work in the shop with him as often as he's able. The problem with that is that he's in college now, so I rarely see him. He did an internship in NC last summer (we live in northern PA) and he'll do another internship this coming summer before graduating a semester early in December of 2019. I want him to be happy and productive obviously, so he'll likely move away upon graduation (there's simply nothing for him here in his field of interest) and I'll see him only rarely and shop projects will be things that we talk about but rarely get to share. It's all good, I get by in the shop and I'm making things that please me and I'm happy for the success that both of my sons are likely to experience.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

This is a repeat of what I’ve posted before. When planning a furniture project there are standards you need to stay close to. For instance the height of a standard chair seat is the same. Same for coffee tables, end tables, dining tables, mattress heights and so on. The deviations are very minor. The only reason to deviate from the standards would be because you are your wife are not standard. For instance the standard counter height in the kitchen might be too high if your wife is only 4’-10”. Or the counter at your lavatory might be too low if you’re 6’-6”. 
As you plan your work, start with the basic standards.


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## sassyhacksaws (Mar 2, 2018)

It's great to hear all of the variety of responses. I guess what works for one person doesn't work for everyone (same goes for the standard sizes of things)!


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

> The only reason to deviate from the standards would be because you are your wife are not standard.


my whole family is a deviation. 

one size fits all never fits any of us, at 6'4'' i'm the shortest guy in my extended family, 9 guys up to 6'8''
funny thing is i married the tallest wife, makes for great wedding pics when the other side is vertically challenged 
vanity 36", shower heads at 86", kitchen cabinets 38", ada toilets and some of my chairs normal peoples legs dangle off the edge


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## Im_no_expert (Nov 8, 2018)

I use a software program called Sketchlist 3D. It's really geared towards cabinets and professionals, but after you start to understand it you can pretty much make any drawing or design you want. Plus the owner/developer has all the how to use it videos on youtube and on his site.

It allows me to put what I have in my head onto the computer and I can make any small adjustments I need to. The main issue I have is makings some small adjustments when actually doing the project, being a beginner I'm sure I will be able to improve on this in my design phase as I move forward, but for now it still works great.


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## bholland (Sep 10, 2018)

Honestly, I go to ikea with a tape measure. I find something that we think would look about right. I then size up dimensions. With my dimensions in hand, pen and paper. Once I have everything mostly to size, I think about wood thickness, how each piece fits together, and joints. From there, it is simple. Each piece gets their own little diagram.

My problem with starting this off has mostly been dealing with problems with wood, like warped or twisted boards, how to deal with rough lumber, and basically getting stuff flat with 90-degree angles. The reason for the size is that I find actually seeing how big something is very helpful so I don't make it too big or too small.


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