# Resawing large boards by hand



## thelowerechelons (Dec 18, 2013)

Hello,

I have a large piece of highly figured maple that I will use to build the back for an upright bass. The top is straight split spruce that I have split into a bookmatched set and I am looking to do the same for the back. I am looking to build this bass using all hand tools and I am looking for insight regarding the following procedures. 

-splitting/resawwing a 16" x 4" x48" quarter of highly figured maple (down the length ie turn it into two 16" x 2" x 48" halves to be joined down the length bookmatched)
-resawwing the ribs. rough cutting 3-4mm veneer that is 12" x 48"

I am very well acquainted with all of the powertools that do these jobs but I am amazed to see 300-400 year old basses that were contruscted before these modern luxuries and would like to build one this way. As it stands the majority of the work is all done by hand but I can't get my head around how they would have done these steps. Was it all mill work? If so, how did they do it? Doesn't this predate the band saw? Would they have had a huge circular blade? I have had success resawing violin and cello ribs by hande with an old disston d-8, any better ideas? How do you cut 16" by hand?

Thanks for your help!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Maybe a buck saw?*







http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/products.asp?dept=306

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=buck+saw

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=ytff1-tyc-inbox&p=two%20man%20rip%20saw&type=


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

What is it that you are making? At first I thought it was a Bass Violin, but then read that you would be using 2" think wood. That instrument would not use wood that thick would it?

It is going to be very difficult to control anyhand saw that is long enough to cut a board 48" long. Maybe there is some type of jig you could ake.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Bass fiddle or upright bass*

:blink:

"I have a large piece of highly figured maple that I will use to build the back for an upright bass."


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I don't know the answer, but if I was undertaking a project like that, I would either write to living history farms etc in my area and ask if they let people browse their library, and I might jump onto GoogleBooks and search in the 19th century. An amazing amount of old knowledge has been digitized and is free. For example, if this link works here is the result for GoogleBooks 19th century hits on the search string [Lumber] How did the old farmers, lacking milling equipment, resaw larger timbers with control? For straight rips of smaller stuff, search on "Sawyer's Bench"


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

GeorgeC said:


> What is it that you are making? At first I thought it was a Bass Violin, but then read that you would be using 2" think wood. That instrument would not use wood that thick would it? It is going to be very difficult to control anyhand saw that is long enough to cut a board 48" long. Maybe there is some type of jig you could ake. George


Wouldn't you be cutting from the 16" dimension? And isn't a frame saw the "right" tool?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> :blink:
> 
> "I have a large piece of highly figured maple that I will use to build the back for an upright bass."
> 
> The Making of Martyn Bailey Double Basses - YouTube


????????????????

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You can make a bow saw like this*

With a deeper throat and by sawing in from each end you could rip the plank down it's length:


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

I saw this a while back. Bob posts some links for where to find parts, too. It is essentially an oversized bow saw called a frame saw, like what woodnthings posted.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

*This is what I was thinking of*

Here's a link to a frame saw that I suppose would fit your needs. Keep in mind that on this post I am guilty of "posting what I read" vs. what I have real knowledge on. 


http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/frame-saw-41009/


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## Azur Jahić (May 17, 2013)

When i need to seperrate two pieces i will split it than smooth it with plane but this is just my opinion.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Here are a couple of references I used when I made my Frame Saw (Thanks for the link railaw - saved me from trying to find it  ).

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/why-you-need-a-resaw-frame-saw/

http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php

I have only used it on old white oak reclaimed from a barn. The biggest problem I have is not having an adequate vise or other way of supporting the material while sawing. It produces a LOT of vibration and stabilizing the wood is key.

There are a lot of different blogs/guides/tutorials on resawing with a frame saw, so let your fingers do some walking and read all you can if you are considering building/using one.

In short, scribe guide lines on all four sides of the piece to be resawn and start sawing so that you can see the line on two edges at once. Don't try to cut all the way through, move from corner to corner all the way around the board to keep your cut true. I usually count my strokes and try to keep them equal as I move around the board.

It will give you a good workout - take your time, don't try to muscle the cut, and take breaks as needed. And believe me you will need break(s).

I've never tried to cut veneer with my saw (or any other), so I can't offer any advise on that process or if my saw/blade is even suitable for that.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Dang it George*



thelowerechelons said:


> *I have a large piece of highly figured maple that I will use to build the back for an upright bass. *





GeorgeC said:


> What is it that you are making?
> 
> George





GeorgeC said:


> ????????????????
> 
> George


Read the first sentence of the thread. :yes:


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

I was shown a somewhat functional pit saw by Firemedic. It's a two man operation and the saw used is specialized with teeth that would present a chisel edge to the wood which is what is needed on end grain ripping. 

I like to work with hand tools as well but I would draw the line in this application. I would use my band saw. You could disconnect the motor and install some sort of crank or treadle and make a human powered saw out of it. 

Bret


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## Azur Jahić (May 17, 2013)

The problem with me i can't find that kind of blade. I can find blade from bow crosscut saw but it wil just clogg in wood if i try to rip saw it.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

In the Logan Cabinet Shoppe video I posted, in the comments, Bob talks about how to make a suitable blade out of 2 inch spring steel.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> Read the first sentence of the thread. :yes:


Read my post.

You did not understand the question I asked.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You asked what he was making earlier*



GeorgeC said:


> What is it that you are making? At first I thought it was a Bass Violin, but then read that you would be using 2" think wood. That instrument would not use wood that thick would it?
> 
> It is going to be very difficult to control anyhand saw that is long enough to cut a board 48" long. Maybe there is some type of jig you could ake.
> 
> George


He's making a back for an upright bass fiddle. That's why I posted the You Tube video. The Video show that the front and back are carved from a solid 2" thick piece, bookmatched in the center, a very laborius process by hand. Controlling a handsaw is obviously possible as other have been able to accomplish it. It's the type of saw that is at issue here, that's why I and others have posted the bow saws or frame saws. It won't be easy regardless. 

I believe I understood your question as well as the OP's original question. :yes: Any further questions? :blink:


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## Azur Jahić (May 17, 2013)

Gilgaron said:


> In the Logan Cabinet Shoppe video I posted, in the comments, Bob talks about how to make a suitable blade out of 2 inch spring steel.


At wich time i didn't hear it.He mention roubo on begining. And it's designed for two person so its harder to rippsaw alone.Sorry i find it on comments i search it in video. Let's be honest who can made this tool blade. They have special toother for this.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Azur Jahić;553328 said:


> At wich time i didn't hear it.He mention roubo on begining. And it's designed for two person so its harder to rippsaw alone.Sorry i find it on comments i search it in video. Let's be honest who can made this tool blade. They have special toother for this.


Yes it was in the comments. 

I can't say that I've made one, but since it is a rip profile you'd just need a saw sharpening file and a saw set tool.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> He's making a back for an upright bass fiddle. That's why I posted the You Tube video. The Video show that the front and back are carved from a solid 2" thick piece, bookmatched in the center, a very laborius process by hand. Controlling a handsaw is obviously possible as other have been able to accomplish it. It's the type of saw that is at issue here, that's why I and others have posted the bow saws or frame saws. It won't be easy regardless.
> 
> I believe I understood your question as well as the OP's original question. :yes: Any further questions? :blink:


Sorry, I did not watch the video. Not much of a video watcher. I just assumed that you had missed that I was questioning the use of 2" thick wood for Bass fiddel. Unless a very large amount of carving is done that is going to be a very heavy instrument.

George


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

George, you missed the boat. The whole point of Woodnthings' post was that the OP is not making a bass fiddle. He is making an UPRIGHT BASS. It stands upright on an integrated pin (basically a graceful looking metal rod) and the musician stands beside it to play it. They are about 6 1/2' tall. The back is carved from a thick piece because it must have the ability to resonate very deep, clear tones. A molded lamination would have poor tonal quality.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*terminology re basses*

There are many names for the bass fiddle, double bass, upright bass and has to do with the acoustic range of the instrument:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass

The viola is a larger violin also played under the cheek:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_family

I use the term upright bass and bass fiddle interchangeably. The term "double bass" is more used by members of an orchestra than a jazz or bluegrass band. I own a bass fiddle and "thump" on it occasionally.
It is currently in pieces and will have the neck reattached soon. :yes:


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

Before attempting to re-saw with a bow saw etc. I would re-tooth the saw to 4 PPI for that cut. I've been known to be a brute for punishment but not as much as a standard cross cut bow would deliver.:thumbdown:


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

A fiddler plays a violin. "Fiddle" refers to a style of playing the violin, which I'm sure you know. I've never heard someone "fiddle" an upright bass lol. I assumed he was referring to a viola? 
My bad


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## Zircon (Aug 1, 2009)

Bob Wills maintained that a violin was carried in a case and a fiddle was carried in a flour sack.

If I were attempting to cut the board with a hand saw I would tack two strips to the board on the front and on the back separated by the width of the saw blade to act as a guide for the saw blade.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

BZawat said:


> A fiddler plays a violin. "Fiddle" refers to a style of playing the violin, which I'm sure you know. I've never heard someone "fiddle" an upright bass lol. I assumed he was referring to a viola?
> My bad


Your definition only works in the North (or maybe even in only some places in the North.

Down South a fiddle is anything played with a bow. And even some things not played with a vow. Such as the upright bass or double bass when only plucked.

George


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

for a blade for a resaw frame saw, you can look into highland woodworking, 

here is there 9tpi blade
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/continentalframesawripjoineryblade.aspx

here is their 5 tpi blade
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/continentalframesawripblade.aspx

of course you will have to build or buy the rest of the saw. 

If you want a much better blade. that in all honesty should be wider. I would contact 

Kevin Reeves at http://nwtoolworks.com/ you will pay more. but from what I have heard from some of his customers is the quality is unmatched. 


If non of the above work for you. you may be able to contact two guys at http://www.tgiag.com/saw-handle-scans.html and see if they can make some thing custom for you. You will have to sharpen and set it yourself tho. 


good luck.


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## gomez11811 (Jul 29, 2012)

I built the bass in the pic mostly with hand tools (bandsaw for neck), but i did use my "bow"(?) saw on the back... I have some video of my self sawing it (pretty funny stuff, I did 2" a day and even had the day of the week penciled on the wood), but photobucket managed to loose that clip.... http://s883.photobucket.com/user/Gomez11811/library/Bass build


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## Azur Jahić (May 17, 2013)

I have at that principe too but i dont find good blade.My way is not mrotise and tenon joint. You can notice where I attached blade at othes side becasue of tension and wood wil split add nail. In first photo gomez1811 had to put metal to hold blade i do it different way i put blade all trough handle and put nail on other side. This is how it had done in old days in my place.


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## thelowerechelons (Dec 18, 2013)

Thanks for all the great replies.

The top and back have a 40mm (2"?) arch. They are carved by hand then it is all thinned to less than 8mm. I use some pretty bitchin power tools to resaw the ribs (which are 2mm when finished) and I have split all of my tops and used to flatten everything by hand but I now have (access to!) a 16" spiral jointer, planer etc...every Powermatic goody in the world. However, aside from flattening and sawing all of the edgework, scroll, purfling inlay, arching...is all done by hand, not sanding, just scrapers. 

I have an ulmia frame saw as well as a disston d-12.

I would like to build one in the truest classic Italian tradition (circa 1700s). Would this have been mill work? I know the violins were all split but I just can't imagine splitting the maple. (or sawing for that matter!) 

Allow me to get specific. What do we think about TPI? What about the set? What about blade length? Stiffness? 

Technique? Draw, scribe, then saw score my line on every side then take it in "facets?" (tilting at 45 degrees, then the other way...etc). It seems that a frame saw might want to "walk". 

I was thinking a stiff, long blade to give me the most power. I could see bending a saw to ruin if you got it to bind. 

What would a ship builder have done? Or a table maker? 

I'd like to stay away from jigs for this, unless you know of some historic precedent for such an operation. I want the experience.


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## Azur Jahić (May 17, 2013)

HEre is how it was done in Balkans. You have one man climb on top and two down or four and they pull saw like this


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## gomez11811 (Jul 29, 2012)

I can`t help with historical stuff ( but for some reason I didn`t use any sandpaper at all (even on the finish), I like the slightly rough "hand made look"), but the frame saw has some quirks... I drew lines on the outside edges to guide me (push from one side for awhile, then pull from the other) but the inside did not stay straight ( there was a bend of from 1/8' to 3/16"). Plenty of wax and kept the blade as tight as I dared, but my bass is a copy of an Amati (Italian) that has a flat back so I had alot of extra wood...


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