# Pricing suggestions



## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

I have to bid on casing some windows. the windows are installed but the rough opening was never covered around the inside. its in a foreclosed Jim Walter home. I plan on doing a little window ledge at the bottom and just trim the sides and top then use case molding on the wall to hide the edge of the boards. I'm thinking $30 per window plus materials. There are 8 windows.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you are installing the trim and not filling the nail holes or other prep work for finishing I believe I would charge closer to $50.00 per window. You have quite a bit of work prepping the materials before you get to the jobsite.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would do 8 windows for $30 dollars each, but I wouldn't go do 1 window for $30. You can probably do one window an hour. I doubt you make that at your other job.


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## asevereid (Apr 15, 2012)

What size are the windows? 
Do you have to install the jamb extensions? 
Drywall returns already in place? (if applicable) 
There may be more to it than just installing casing.


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## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

there is more to it than just case molding. they installed the windows from outside, that's it. I have to do the jambs I guess they're called and then do the casing. I assume the "jamb" is the 2x4 opening where the window is? I am well capable of this work but I don't know the proper terms for it.

hwebb99 I agree I wouldn't do one window for $30. I don't have a "other job" this is it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If it were me I would charge $50 for the jambs alone making the project $100 per window.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

MidGAOutdoor said:


> there is more to it than just case molding. they installed the windows from outside, that's it. I have to do the jambs I guess they're called and then do the casing. I assume the "jamb" is the 2x4 opening where the window is? I am well capable of this work but I don't know the proper terms for it.
> 
> hwebb99 I agree I wouldn't do one window for $30. I don't have a "other job" this is it.


 
I know "we all have to start somewhere " but I would say you are in over your head is you don't even know what a window jamb is.You say you just don't know the terminology? The 2 x 4's are the rough opening .Not the jamb.
Another poster stated at $30 a window and one an hour you would be making $30 per hour. This is also false.What about overhead,fuel,tools,truck.Consumables such as fasteners,sandpaper and filler?Do you have general liability insurance?Trips to the lumberyard?


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

mako1 said:


> I know "we all have to start somewhere " but I would say you are in over your head is you don't even know what a window jamb is.You say you just don't know the terminology? The 2 x 4's are the rough opening .Not the jamb. Another poster stated at $30 a window and one an hour you would be making $30 per hour. This is also false.What about overhead,fuel,tools,truck.Consumables such as fasteners,sandpaper and filler?Do you have general liability insurance?Trips to the lumberyard?


 Don't you have to drive to work anywhere? He said the customer was paying for materials. Can he not charge for consumables? I'm assuming he already has tools, so you can't exactly factor in tools.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

MidGAOutdoor said:


> I have to bid on casing some windows. the windows are installed but the rough opening was never covered around the inside. its in a foreclosed Jim Walter home. I plan on doing a little window ledge at the bottom and just trim the sides and top then use case molding on the wall to hide the edge of the boards. I'm thinking $30 per window plus materials. There are 8 windows.


My math says 8 pieces are required for each window. A ledge or sill on the bottom, 3 pieces of interior on the sides and top from 1 X 's and then 4 pieces of trim all around. IF the 1 X's have to be ripped to be flush with the wall, that will mean cutting them to width. They may all be slightly different and some may be hand planed at an angle. There is the biggest portion of your time.

I would agree with Steve at $50.00 per window, depending on how good you are... meaning fast ? You will need a chop or miter saw and a table saw and hand plane for tools. An air compressor with finishing gun and some spackle for a painted surface and nail set. All this takes time. Time is money. So, the final decision is yours.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

hwebb99 said:


> Don't you have to drive to work anywhere? He said the customer was paying for materials. Can he not charge for consumables? I'm assuming he already has tools, so you can't exactly factor in tools.


And this my friend is why I am assuming you have never ran a successful business or been self employed? When operating a business who pays for all of the overhead? Tools are part of the overhead as are utilities ,insurance,rent and many other things.The failure of many small businesses is due to the lack of the owner seeing these things.
If you want to grow any business you can not work for wages but have to make a profit to grow the business.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

The guys just doing a few jobs can't factor in over head. If you do I have about $1500 in this cutting board I sell for $45.






If you go to work somewhere and they say they will pay you $30 dollars an hour, you still aren't making $30 an hour. You have to pay taxes and pay for gas to get to work. I'm sure he isn't paying taxes on this job, and if it is local gas money is pretty minor. I doubt he is paying insurance. I doubt he has a business license. He doesn't need a building for this job, so no rent or utilities. A woodworker doing a side job doesn't have to and can't charge the same rate as a professional. He obviously hasn't hasn't ever done this before or only a few time if he has. Nobody in there right mind is going to hire a this guy charging full professional rates.


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

I've trimmed out many windows. Even with custom fitting jambs, it shouldn't take 8 hours for 8 windows. I can pull an old window, install the new one, trim and prep to paint-ready in about 75-90 minutes. I'm just a DIY guy. Pros can probably do that in an hour or less.

I don't really understand what prep work needs to be done ahead of time. I've always just used off-the-shelf S4S for jambs - ripped, cut and rounded over right at the job site. I guess maybe if you're doing something fancy with the stool it would make sense to prep them at the shop. I don't think I'd show up with pre-ripped jambs since they often need a taper cut due to installation issues with the window. 

That said, I agree $30/window is light for full dressing. I'd shoot for $50 each. If $400 is out of budget, maybe meet at $300-$350. Including loading up your tools, clean up, etc, you'll still probably have less than 8 hours into it.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

That's why I don't make cutting boards.If you want to that's great. 

"If you go to work somewhere and they say they will pay you $30 dollars an hour, you still aren't making $30 an hour" 
You are correct.After taxes your no actually making $30 an hour.You don't see it after you pay income tax on your wages.It's more like $40 or so an hour after the company pays for paid holidays,insurance,workmans comp and all of the benefits they pay for.
Once you start selling a product no matter how big or small or how many times you do it a year it is a business and needs to be treated as such. Most don't and don't intend on turning it into a real business.Just picking up some extra bucks but for the ones trying to make a living from it all things have to be considered.
What if he screws up the job?Your playing around with peoples houses here.The largest investment they will ever make.So he has to go back and redo it.How much money has he made.Say they no longer trust him to do it right and hire a pro to come fix it.Sue him for the cost.He has no insurance.
He's not making nick nacks to sell at craft shows he's dealing with peoples houses and in over his head.


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

mako1 said:


> That's why I don't make cutting boards.If you want to that's great.
> 
> "If you go to work somewhere and they say they will pay you $30 dollars an hour, you still aren't making $30 an hour"
> You are correct.After taxes your no actually making $30 an hour.You don't see it after you pay income tax on your wages.It's more like $40 or so an hour after the company pays for paid holidays,insurance,workmans comp and all of the benefits they pay for.
> ...


Mako, I think you make some good points, I think some of us struggle with your 12GA shotgun delivery though. 

To follow your comment, I see this all of the time, good trades people don't necessarily make good business people. There is a lot of cost burden to running a business that the average guy doesn't consider. That's why so many come and go, and the ones that people say are "expensive" continue to be around and grow.

Back to the original topic, $30 a window seems low, I'm with the others that $50 is closer to the right number, but you need to figure your costs, and time to see what is right.

It's not uncommon to bid a little lower if this has the potential to be a repeat Customer with a larger volume of business. But then again it's not uncommon to bid higher for a Customer that shows to be a PITA.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

My wife's cousin built one of those homes about 20 years ago...maybe longer. They are not fancy homes, but functional.

It seems to me, it would take some time to procure the material, drive to the site, set up the tools and prep the workpieces. Probably the only consistent stock would be the width of the window sills. Still, I think it will be a lot of custom cut and fit. That might mean numerous trips to the miter saw or table saw to get the fit right.

Good luck on your bid. Think it through and add extra for the hidden costs.

Who knows, maybe the guy will need some cabinet work! :thumbsup:


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

A lot of unknowns from the OP in order to give an accurate guess on price. And I agree that from his lack of terminology he sounds in over his head.

As a general carpenter for living I can tell you there are several parts to trimming a newly installed window. It starts with a stool that generally has to be cut to fit. Followed by casing and generally an apron as well as scotia in a lot of cases. Then there's possible jam extensions or custom fitting issues that could be a possibility. Trimming a window can be minimalist or fancy, something else we also do not know.


For most of the work I do at work it's all the trimmings with a lot of fitting. If I took a side job as such it would be no less than $50 per window but I'd probably shoot more for $75. I can generally knock one out every 45min to an hour if it's full on fancy like at work. IMHO fitting the stool right and getting it to look good is the most time consuming part.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the "stool" ?*

The only stools I'm familar with are in the bar and in the rest room. Never hear of a window sill being called a "stool". It that a locality thing? :blink:


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> The only stools I'm familar with are in the bar and in the rest room. Never hear of a window sill being called a "stool". It that a locality thing? :blink:





Sills are exterior stools are interior.

Same basic thing but that's the terminology around here.

I wouldn't be surprised if it varies around the country.


Google 'window stools' if you're still not sold.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Ok, that makes sense....*

So, I'm curious why you mentioned the stool in this case because the windows were already installed. Would they not have the stool built in as part of the prehung? 

I suppose it depends on the flashing type as well. Previously, Pellas had the flashing flange all around and there was no need for a stool, if I understand your description. But I digress .... back to your regular programming. :smile:


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> So, I'm curious why you mentioned the stool in this case because the windows were already installed. Would they not have the stool built in as part of the prehung?
> 
> I suppose it depends on the flashing type as well. Previously, Pellas had the flashing flange all around and there was no need for a stool, if I understand your description. But I digress .... back to your regular programming. :smile:





I assumed the OP was talking about trimming out the interior of a window.

On most new windows nowadays there is no exterior sill separate from the window, but there would still be a need for a stool on the inside. Generally wooden sills (exterior) are on older houses.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> So, I'm curious why you mentioned the stool in this case because the windows were already installed. Would they not have the stool built in as part of the prehung? I suppose it depends on the flashing type as well. Previously, Pellas had the flashing flange all around and there was no need for a stool, if I understand your description. But I digress .... back to your regular programming. :smile:


I ordered and installed some new windows this year. The interior stools were a separately order-able option. They are not factory installed on the prehung unit as they extend onto the interior wall surface on each side of the window. The bottom edge of the casing on the window sides then rests on top of the stool. The stool extends just past the outer edge of the casing. The factory needed to know the width of the casing so that the correct stool length was provided. The rear edge of the stool had a tongue that fit into a groove on the window unit making it self aligning. I just had the trim the tongue off a few inches on each end where the stool was against the wall. It literally took a few minutes to install the stools. It would have taken much longer If I had to mill them from scratch to fit the window units.


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## mikeswoods (May 18, 2009)

Very interesting discussion------------

I start my jobs with 'protecting the house'----if the house is lived in and has finished floor or carpeting--and furniture----you will be needing tarps and perhaps carpet ptotector--

Time depends on where the cutting station is----new construction--you can set up right in the house near the windows----saves lots of time--

These are all things Mako and other pros think of as we look over the job---and raise or lower the quote to cover them.

As a novice, you will want to analyze the job--time and expenses when you are finished--so the next one will reflect your experience.


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