# Wood pens split when assembling



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

Hello, after making a few pens without incident, my recent batch have been splitting when I assemble them. For example, my last 3 padauk pens have all split (I enclose a picture where you can see the crack if you look carefully). My 3 first pens, made of bocote did not. Here is what I do:

1) Cut wood blanks to appropriate lengths.
2) Drill 7mm holes.
3) Carefully epoxy brass cylinder into holes.
4) Use barrel trimmer
5) Shape them on the lathe
6) Coat them with CA
7) Assemble

Everything goes great until I assemble. This evening I even filed down the metal inserts a bit so there would be less pressure on the brass cylinders and it still split. I even epoxied the ends (after step 4) of the wood to help prevent splits. And I even roughed up the brass cylinders so that the epoxy would bond even better.

I'm baffled. Any hints? 

I live at 7200 feet where it is quite dry. I get my pen blanks from PSI. Is this just a problem with padauk? It is a lovely wood. My first pens were made without the barrel trimmer. Could this be opening up cracks at the ends?

Yes, I'm a novice. A frustrated one right now. Thanks in advance. Bill


----------



## RusDemka (Jun 9, 2012)

Make sure there is no glue residue inside the tubes


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

RusDemka said:


> Make sure there is no glue residue inside the tubes


Yes, thanks. The barrel trimmer does a good job with that and I've looked pretty carefully and didn't see any. I suppose I could try to get a Dremel bit that could clean the inside even better.


----------



## jdaschel (Jan 10, 2013)

When it cracks when you assemble it that means it is expanding your tubes.
I take a box knife and take off the burr or edge from the brass tubes. Make sure your tubes are clean or they will crack when you assemble. Also, some cheap kits are poorly made and will do it anyway. I like the berea slim kits because they are high quality. A little more spendy than psi but well worth it. I havent had one break yet.


----------



## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

What are you using to assemble the pens?

If the parts are not presented square to the tube when you start pressing, that can cause the wood to split.


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

jdaschel said:


> When it cracks when you assemble it that means it is expanding your tubes.
> I take a box knife and take off the burr or edge from the brass tubes. Make sure your tubes are clean or they will crack when you assemble. Also, some cheap kits are poorly made and will do it anyway. I like the berea slim kits because they are high quality. A little more spendy than psi but well worth it. I havent had one break yet.


OK, that is what I was assuming (expansion). Which is why I actually ground down the inner parts a little. But your point about quality feels right - the PSI kits seem just too tight - it requires a lot of force, which means things are too snug in my opinion.

Thanks for the hint on "berea" - I've Googled them and have bookmarked their site. Much appreciated.


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

My first guess would be the change on humidity. Before I finished reading it all I was going to ask of you were using green wood. The change in atmospheric conditions could have a similar effect. Try letting your blanks dry a little more. Pre-drilling them and letting them dry will likely accelerate the drying process if that is the issue. 

I did read another thread only this morning that looked at the possible but issue and how it arises. I think it was due to a worn barrel trimmer that was not trimming the brass.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

duncsuss said:


> What are you using to assemble the pens?
> 
> If the parts are not presented square to the tube when you start pressing, that can cause the wood to split.


This has been an ongoing experiment for me. At first I was using an Irwin bar clamp (with oak pieces stuck on both ends). I had trouble getting things square, and the force required was taking the maximum strength of both hands. This seems a bit excessive, and perhaps relates to the comment about the Berea kits being better.

Then I tried using a 6" vise. I felt like pressure was being applied more properly (square) but this also split all four sections of 2 padauk pens.

I've seen other people refer to using their lathe - tightening the tail stock to press things together, but frankly this $109 HF lathe tail stock isn't robust enough in my opinion to do this right.

So, any advice on the best way to assemble the pens? Thanks, Bill


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> My first guess would be the change on humidity. Before I finished reading it all I was going to ask of you were using green wood. The change in atmospheric conditions could have a similar effect. Try letting your blanks dry a little more. Pre-drilling them and letting them dry will likely accelerate the drying process if that is the issue.
> 
> I did read another thread only this morning that looked at the possible but issue and how it arises. I think it was due to a worn barrel trimmer that was not trimming the brass.
> 
> Dave The Turning Cowboy


The blanks are from PSI, and I assumed they were well dried. They have also been sitting here for about a month on my enclosed deck, which is somewhat cold and dry.

I like the idea of pre-drilling and then letting them sit around more.

I have been wondering if the barrel trimmer was dull from the start - it does "grab" at times. I'm still trying to figure out which edge to sharpen on the 4 blades. People have differing opinions. It is a standard high temperature steel one - not carbide. Thanks, Bill


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

WyomingWill said:


> This has been an ongoing experiment for me. At first I was using an Irwin bar clamp (with oak pieces stuck on both ends). I had trouble getting things square, and the force required was taking the maximum strength of both hands. This seems a bit excessive, and perhaps relates to the comment about the Berea kits being better.
> 
> Then I tried using a 6" vise. I felt like pressure was being applied more properly (square) but this also split all four sections of 2 padauk pens.
> 
> ...


Get the tool for it, it is the best thing, I think it is about $80 au but well worth it if your making more than a few. I have used an old drill press, the type that clamps onto a normal electric drill, it does work but the press was the best investment I made.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> Get the tool for it, it is the best thing, I think it is about $80 au but well worth it if your making more than a few. I have used an old drill press, the type that clamps onto a normal electric drill, it does work but the press was the best investment I made.
> 
> Dave The Turning Cowboy


OK! Looks like $40 here so not bad at all. Thanks, Bill


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

WyomingWill said:


> OK! Looks like $40 here so not bad at all. Thanks, Bill


A little tip, if you use a press make yourself a little 4" spacer, I think that is the ideal length from nib to mechanism for a slimline. You can use that so you don't push the twist mechanism in too far. Adjust the length of spacer as needed but that is about right from what I remember.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> A little tip, if you use a press make yourself a little 4" spacer, I think that is the ideal length from nib to mechanism for a slimline. You can use that so you don't push the twist mechanism in too far. Adjust the length of spacer as needed but that is about right from what I remember.
> 
> Dave The Turning Cowboy


Yes that makes good sense to me. Thank you!


----------



## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

what little experience i have it sounded to me like an assembly problem
i actually use my drill press and it is quite tricky but it has worked well for me so far


----------



## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

I only use PSI kits and never experienced a similar problem, use Padauk often.

Make sure you are using the right size drill bit, the tubes should not fit tight in the blanks. Also look at the type of epoxy used, or try and press together sooner after glued.


----------



## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

WyomingWill said:


> This has been an ongoing experiment for me ...
> 
> Then I tried using a 6" vise. I felt like pressure was being applied more properly (square) but this also split all four sections of 2 padauk pens.


I'm not going to say anything bad about Berea kits (I've made a few) but there is absolutely no reason why the kits from any other supplier should cause this problem.

I use PennState kits a lot and it hasn't happened to me _except the times I've had parts skewed when I press them together.

_I stopped using Irwin grip clamps and I stopped using my vise -- quite simply, they have too much freedom to move side to side as they are clamping.

Now I use my drill press -- with a stubby Philips screwdriver held in the chuck so it's the end of the plastic handle that applies the force to the pen parts.

It is far more controllable than anything else I've tried -- IMO even better than the "pen press" tools that run from $40 to $80.


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

WillemJM said:


> I only use PSI kits and never experienced a similar problem, use Padauk often.
> 
> Make sure you are using the right size drill bit, the tubes should not fit tight in the blanks. Also look at the type of epoxy used, or try and press together sooner after glued.


Everything is from PSI, including the 7mm drill bit. The brass tubes fit fine into the wood. The problem occurs when I press all the other bits (tip, cap, etc) into the brass tubes.


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

robert421960 said:


> what little experience i have it sounded to me like an assembly problem
> i actually use my drill press and it is quite tricky but it has worked well for me so far


OK. The consensus seems to be that I'm not assembling it right (frankly I totally agree) so I ordered a pen assembler. I really hope that solves the problem. Thanks, Bill


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

duncsuss said:


> I'm not going to say anything bad about Berea kits (I've made a few) but there is absolutely no reason why the kits from any other supplier should cause this problem.
> 
> I use PennState kits a lot and it hasn't happened to me _except the times I've had parts skewed when I press them together.
> 
> ...


OK this does seem to be the consensus. I ordered the PSI pen assembler last night, before I saw your message. Let's see how that goes. 

I have a short Philips like that, but how do you align the parts well using the drill press (w/o scratching up the wood also)??? How do you handle the side-to-side issue (I agree, I think this is definitely a part of my problem, if not all of it). Thanks, Bill


----------



## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

You shouldnt have any side to side play with a drill press. Have a look at the other pen assembly thread, I posted a pic of the way I do it with a drill press. The screwdriver in the press would work the same way.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/pen-assembly-woodscrew-47021/

I own an actual pen press or pen assembly tool but the drill press works a whole lot better. You might be wise to save yourself 40 bucks and cancel that order if you have a drill press.


----------



## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

WyomingWill said:


> I have a short Philips like that, but how do you align the parts well using the drill press (w/o scratching up the wood also)??? How do you handle the side-to-side issue (I agree, I think this is definitely a part of my problem, if not all of it). Thanks, Bill


I put a piece of thick wood down on the drill press table as a non-marring base. (I happen to have a piece of 2" thick red oak, but anything will work so long as it isn't very soft.)

To insert the nib: I hold the barrel upright, with the part that's going to be the pointy end upwards, dead center under the screwdriver handle. (The laser cross-hairs help, but it's not that difficult to locate the center.)

I hold it close to the top -- close enough that I can also grip the nib with the same finger and thumb that hold the barrel.

Now I gently lower the quill until the screwdriver handle is just pressing on the tip of the nib -- double check that the nib is still aligned and vertical, and then gently apply downwards pressure until the nib begins to seat in the brass tube.

If it's going crooked, stop!

Straighten it up, bring the quill down again ...

And so on :smile:

(I thought about drilling a hole in a block of wood to act as a stabilizer for the barrel, so I can focus on holding the pen components instead of having to hold two items.)


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

BassBlaster said:


> You shouldnt have any side to side play with a drill press. Have a look at the other pen assembly thread, I posted a pic of the way I do it with a drill press. The screwdriver in the press would work the same way.
> 
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/pen-assembly-woodscrew-47021/
> 
> I own an actual pen press or pen assembly tool but the drill press works a whole lot better. You might be wise to save yourself 40 bucks and cancel that order if you have a drill press.


Thanks - am looking and will download your pics.


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

duncsuss said:


> I put a piece of thick wood down on the drill press table as a non-marring base. (I happen to have a piece of 2" thick red oak, but anything will work so long as it isn't very soft.)
> 
> To insert the nib: I hold the barrel upright, with the part that's going to be the pointy end upwards, dead center under the screwdriver handle. (The laser cross-hairs help, but it's not that difficult to locate the center.)
> 
> ...


That all makes sense to me. Which is that the side-to-side needs to be carefully monitored by eye and adjusted by hand. But that is what I was doing with the vise also. So I'm unclear as to why the drill press would work better - am I just being stupid? 

Not trying to be argumentative. Just confused.


----------



## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

WyomingWill said:


> That all makes sense to me. Which is that the side-to-side needs to be carefully monitored by eye and adjusted by hand. But that is what I was doing with the vise also. So I'm unclear as to why the drill press would work better - am I just being stupid?
> 
> Not trying to be argumentative. Just confused.


Understood.

I think the very action of tightening a vise is going to result in some side-to-side movement, which will encourage the components to twist.

But maybe you'll have the same problem with a drill press :huh:


----------



## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

WyomingWill said:


> That all makes sense to me. Which is that the side-to-side needs to be carefully monitored by eye and adjusted by hand. But that is what I was doing with the vise also. So I'm unclear as to why the drill press would work better - am I just being stupid?
> 
> Not trying to be argumentative. Just confused.


i use my drill press and would think it would be easier to hold the parts inline with it vertical rather than horizontal
try it and see what you like better :yes::yes:


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

duncsuss said:


> Understood.
> 
> I think the very action of tightening a vise is going to result in some side-to-side movement, which will encourage the components to twist.
> 
> But maybe you'll have the same problem with a drill press :huh:


OK, that might be the case. I tend to think of the vise as being very linear, but you are right - it won't be as linear as a drill press.

I've queried PSI about this and have gotten a whole lot of answers, including one guy who agrees their kits are too snug, especially at the tip (which is where it almost always splits for me). So, it might not all just be my own incompetence.


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

robert421960 said:


> i use my drill press and would think it would be easier to hold the parts inline with it vertical rather than horizontal
> try it and see what you like better :yes::yes:


Frankly I'm just going to try both. I ordered the pen assembler and will compare to the drill press technique. I just want *something* that will work - I'm tired of splitting pens! 

Thanks to everyone for replying - this is a great forum. :blink:


----------



## tymann09 (Mar 4, 2011)

I am probably chiming in a little late here but i recently encountered a similar experience. I've made 70+ pens and last week made my first paduak pen. when i assembled it, it split at the end, much like yours. This was the first pen I've ever had split on me, I always use a bench vise to assemble (never had any problems with that). It could be pure coincidence but I feel like it's got something to do with the wood. perhaps it is extremely sensitive to pressure changes. who knows.


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

tymann09 said:


> I am probably chiming in a little late here but i recently encountered a similar experience. I've made 70+ pens and last week made my first paduak pen. when i assembled it, it split at the end, much like yours. This was the first pen I've ever had split on me, I always use a bench vise to assemble (never had any problems with that). It could be pure coincidence but I feel like it's got something to do with the wood. perhaps it is extremely sensitive to pressure changes. who knows.


Not too late as far as I'm concerned! I've only made 10 pens so far. I've had no problems with bocote. Purple heart has some small splits. But 3 padauks in a row all big splits in 5 of the 6 wood sections! 

I have 6 pieces of padauk left and think the wood is really beautiful and really want to get some pens out of them!


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

*Using something other than epoxy?*

I know this is probably nuts, but if I glue the brass tubes into the wood with epoxy, I have wood, glue and epoxy. The wood is the weakest element. So if the brass tube expands a bit, that is transmitted right to the wood.

Has anyone tried anything other than superglue or epoxy?

Like rubber cement or silicon caulk? Something with a bit of give?

Thanks, Bill


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

WyomingWill said:


> Not too late as far as I'm concerned! I've only made 10 pens so far. I've had no problems with bocote. Purple heart has some small splits. But 3 padauks in a row all big splits in 5 of the 6 wood sections!
> 
> I have 6 pieces of padauk left and think the wood is really beautiful and really want to get some pens out of them!


If you are both having issues with this type of blank it does seem to be the timber. When doing Red Gum I have to thread very carefully when turning 'thin' pens. 

It might be an idea to turn a more chunky pen from this material and see if you have the same issue. Just cause that are slim lines and every one turns them so slim does not mean they have to be that way.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

WyomingWill said:


> I know this is probably nuts, but if I glue the brass tubes into the wood with epoxy, I have wood, glue and epoxy. The wood is the weakest element. So if the brass tube expands a bit, that is transmitted right to the wood.
> 
> Has anyone tried anything other than superglue or epoxy?
> 
> ...


I use an expanding glue which probably does have some give in it. It has fallen down behind some stuff so I can't source it for a name right now.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> I use an expanding glue which probably does have some give in it. It has fallen down behind some stuff so I can't source it for a name right now.
> 
> Dave The Turning Cowboy


This might be important! PSI instructions say:

Step 3 - Glue The Tubes Into The Blanks
Use epoxy or a gap filling cyanoacrylate. Spread the
glue on the tube. Insert into the blank with a twisting
motion to spread the glue evenly inside. Center each
tube lengthwise in the blank. Allow it to dry.

But what if this is the source of my problems? If you find out what you use, I'd really like to know. Thanks!


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

This is the glue I use. I imagine this could be an Australian brand but not sure. Over here it costs about $16 a bottle. 









Below is a pic of how it looks dry in a blank, this is a full length blank. I glue from each end and then cut it in 1/2. 









Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> This is the glue I use. I imagine this could be an Australian brand but not sure. Over here it costs about $16 a bottle.
> 
> Below is a pic of how it looks dry in a blank, this is a full length blank. I glue from each end and then cut it in 1/2.
> 
> Dave The Turning Cowboy


I think that is similar to gorilla glue here and I was just reading that people have had good luck with this. Do you need to add a bit of water and does it foam up and expand?


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

WyomingWill said:


> I think that is similar to gorilla glue here and I was just reading that people have had good luck with this. Do you need to add a bit of water and does it foam up and expand?


Yes it foams up and expands and I do recall on occasion running water through the blanks on particularly dry ones.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## WyomingWill (Oct 16, 2012)

*Well, maybe PSI has control issues*

FYI, here is something I just sent to PSI. If anyone wants to hear the resolution I will let you know:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note to Penn State Industries (I hope someone will read this!) I don't have a micrometer but I used a standard crescent wrench to compare an end cap from one of your PKSP105A starter kits (which I had no troubles with), and the end cap from a package of 10 trimline PKXM24 kits (where I'm having a lot of troubles).

I adjusted the wrench so that the starter kit end cap barely fit. The PKXM24 cap does not. It is too large. This matches my observations precisely. They are too snug. I took 2 pictures, but I do not see any way to attach them.
I think there are similar problems with the other interior components. I think D F above is correct.

This is a big problem. There is too much variance in your batches. This batch is ruining my pen blanks. Please advise. Thank you.


----------

