# shallow M&T strength



## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I have been working on building a queen bed frame for longer than I'd like to admit. 









I of course will have to be able to take it apart so the outside rails (right word?) will be joined to the headboard and footboard with M&T held together with bed bolts instead of glue. Similar to this.









The issue I'm working through at the moment is the comparatively slim headboard (~1 1/2" thick) compared to the heavy rails (3"x6"). This just brings to mind the beefy rails with a 3/4" long tenon and makes me wonder if that will offer the support I need to keep this from being a wobbly squeaky mess. I have thought about adding additional support to the underside of the rails but don't know if that will help or is even needed. Will short tenons offer problems?


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

I think loose dowels are common here. Your M&T is substantially stronger than a couple of dowels. I wouldn't sweat it, not even a a little. Maybe even just use the dowels to simplify.


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

Very good to hear. Although I think I'm going to stick to M&T. I'm excited to break out my new Veritas router plane anyway. Plus all but the foot board are already put together. 

















just one of the two rails^


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Have you considered buying bed hardware from Lee Valley? Takes all the fiddle-diddle out of the corners of the frame. Lee Valley>Hardware>Bed Hardware. The furniture shop down my street uses some of it, exactly what I don't know.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Giser
The short tenon will be fine if you use the bed bolts. 
The tenon will hold the rail and keep it from rotating, but the real strength comes from the long heavy bolt. The bolt allows easy assembly/disassembly of the bed frame.


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## asevereid (Apr 15, 2012)

What about a shallow m&t with Titebond iii and some 5-1/2" GRK screws? 
I considered this for a project that, unfortunately, got canceled at the last minute.


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## asevereid (Apr 15, 2012)

Oops... Got this thread mixed up with the fencing thread regarding m&t. 
My bad. 
But this beer is deeeelicious.


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

Robson Valley said:


> Have you considered buying bed hardware from Lee Valley? Takes all the fiddle-diddle out of the corners of the frame. Lee Valley>Hardware>Bed Hardware. The furniture shop down my street uses some of it, exactly what I don't know.


I had considered bed hardware but I decided against it. I wanted to be sure there is absolutely no movement what so ever seeing as how the movement in these joints usually transfer to squeaking and kreeking during more... uh... intimate... times. :yes:


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## EdS (Mar 21, 2013)

I built a king size bed for my son a while back and used hardware to attach the rails. Here is the link.http://www.woodcraft.com/product/127456/bed-rail-fastener.aspx
It's really easy to install, just a shallow mortise in each rail end and also in the headboard/footboard. The fit is really tight on the hardware and just the weight of the mattress and box spring is all that is needed to prevent any squeaking or movement.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

GISer3546 said:


> I had considered bed hardware but I decided against it. I wanted to be sure there is absolutely no movement what so ever seeing as how the movement in these joints usually transfer to squeaking and kreeking during more... uh... intimate... times. :yes:


Bed hardware is designed to hold beds together for exactly the reason you mention, why reinvent the wheel?


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## mtnwalton (Oct 12, 2013)

EdS said:


> I built a king size bed for my son a while back and used hardware to attach the rails. Here is the link.http://www.woodcraft.com/product/127456/bed-rail-fastener.aspx
> It's really easy to install, just a shallow mortise in each rail end and also in the headboard/footboard. The fit is really tight on the hardware and just the weight of the mattress and box spring is all that is needed to prevent any squeaking or movement.


+1; Unless you're too far along I'd highly recommend the hardware n this link. Extremely strong and foolproof


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