# Piano Hinges



## Cat375 (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm building a mobile cabinet with flip-up wings for my miter saw. The wings are connected to the cabinet body with piano hinges. Based on my limited experience with piano hinges and the fact that no matter how much effort and time I put into connecting the hinges, I'm worried the top of the wing and the top of the cabinet won't line up. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but piano hinge alignment hasn't been an easy task (nor has connection, the screws provided with the hinges suck). Any suggestions? Is there a jig or fixture that makes the piano hinge installation foolproof (for fools like me)?
Thanks Guys


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

If you fully seat the hinge against the body and the lid there should be no problem. There is not much way for it to get out of alignment.

G


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Cat375 said:


> I'm building a mobile cabinet with flip-up wings for my miter saw. The wings are connected to the cabinet body with piano hinges. Based on my limited experience with piano hinges and the fact that no matter how much effort and time I put into connecting the hinges, I'm worried the top of the wing and the top of the cabinet won't line up. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but piano hinge alignment hasn't been an easy task (nor has connection, the screws provided with the hinges suck). Any suggestions? Is there a jig or fixture that makes the piano hinge installation foolproof (for fools like me)?
> Thanks Guys



I agree with you the screws that come with most of the packaged hinges are junk. I use a #4 or #5 FH phillips x 1/2" screws I buy in bulk. The difference in size depends on the size of the hinge and the countersink provided.

If you can lay out both members receiving the hinge at the same time, to get the hinge leaves aligned properly, that will set where the knuckle (barrel) will be. I use a fine point pencil and mark out the holes and use an awl to pinpoint the screw point. Piloting the hole is necessary. After piloting, I use a countersink to slightly chamfer the hole. This makes for easy and clean seating of the screw through the hinge.

I don't use a combo countersink/drill, as they aren't precise enough. Using an awl to center punch the marked hole works better than the spring loaded punches or Vix bits.

When installing the hinge, I usually only put in a screw near the ends and in the middle to just check alignment, fit, and movement. If all is well, I'll mark, punch, and drill the rest of the holes. It's necessary to pilot a straight hole, as any cant to the screw when installing may allow the edge of the head to hit the opposing hinge leaf.
.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Vix bits help a TON when drilling the holes also...


http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2002022/2002022.aspx


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

Rick; Damn you stole my post :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Vix bits and the spring loaded punches require an absolute perpendicular application to be anywhere near accurate. Them slightest angle will create an offset screw placement. 

If the pilot hole is off center due to improper handling and placement of a spring loaded punch, or holding a drill at a slight angle for a Vix bit, screw alignment will be problematic. 

If done with hinges, such as butt (leaf) hinges, euro hinge/plates, and even passage doors, an offset screw will move the hinge. This makes a fitted hinge in a mortise out of alignment and the screw head will not seat. Most leaf type hinges will not work properly if the screws aren't seated as the screws oppose each other. 

The advantage of speed and convenience of Vix bits and spring loaded punches can only be appreciated if used accurately.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Vix bits are a poor choice for piano hinges or any hinges for that matter. The perpendicular aspect of using the Vix bit is the huge issue.

I usually clamp the hinges in place and mark the edge of the screw hole closest and furthest from the edge of the wood at both ends of the hinge. Then I split the distance between the marks and draw a line. Then I offset the hinge parallel to edge and re-clamp the hinge. The offset is half the diameter of one of the screw holes. Then I mark the edge of the screw hole where it crosses the line that I drew previously. The result is a point where an awl can be used for the drill starting point.

BTW - I have never seen good screws come with hinges. I have been able to snap the provided screws by rolling the screwdriver between my thumb and two fingers. I always purchase screws for the hinges.


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## daxinarian (Sep 8, 2008)

for alignment, if you are very concerned about it, instead of attaching the hinge to your surfaces, first attach them to a pieces of wood roughly the same size as the hinges. Then you can plane or sand these pieces to be co-planer and uniform in thickness. Finally cut identical rabbits in your wings and the top of your cabinet and glue the hinge assembly into the rabbits.
here is a quick sketch...


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## pabloj13 (Dec 10, 2009)

I am mounting similar piano hinge and lid supports into 3/4" birch ply. I had read somewhere that they recommended putting a little wood glue into the pilot holes. would you guys recommend that?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

pabloj13 said:


> I am mounting similar piano hinge and lid supports into 3/4" birch ply. I had read somewhere that they recommended putting a little wood glue into the pilot holes. would you guys recommend that?



Where did you read that, and who recommended it? I wouldn't recommend it. Lets examine the idea. 

Would putting glue in the hole stick to the screw and perform any holding power other than the screw into wood? I vote no.

Would the glue cause any expanding or solidifying function on the wood surrounding the screw that would in some way make it more secure? Maybe, and if by chance it did, that would be the only redeeming value.

Would putting glue into the hole possibly create one big darn mess? I vote more than likely.

A properly seated screw into wood is more than sufficient as a fastening device.

Of course these are just my opinions as I've done a lot of screwing.:yes:


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## pabloj13 (Dec 10, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> Where did you read that, and who recommended it? I wouldn't recommend it. Lets examine the idea.
> 
> Would putting glue in the hole stick to the screw and perform any holding power other than the screw into wood? I vote no.
> 
> ...


:laughing: I read it on some other board. Thanks for the advice. What size pilot hole would you drill for a #4 1/2" screw. I kinda thought that sounded like a big mess, but I think the swelling wood idea was the rationale behind it.


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## RLHERRON (May 15, 2008)

The very first thing I do when I buy ANY item that has screws with it, I throw the screws in the trash. I only use square drive screws that I purchase from McFeely in bulk. To me Phillips and Slotted screws are a PIA to mess with. 

Having said that I know someone out there wants those screws I'm throwing away. I will now save them and next Christmas I will be glad to send them to you. :yes:

Merry Christmas to all.

RLH


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## Ogee Fillet (Aug 20, 2009)

*Pablo*

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infwoodscrewpilot.html


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Ogee Fillet said:


> http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infwoodscrewpilot.html



That's a pretty good general chart for "wood screws", which are likely meant to be "tapered" screws. For screws with straight shanks, like machine screws or "drywall type" screws, there is an easy method. The drill bit (straight) used should be the diameter of the actual screw shank. 

That is the width from bottom of the gullet on one side to the bottom of the gullet on the other. The screw can be laid on the drill bit and just sighted, for lack of a better method, or not knowing the actual sizes of either the screw or drill bit.


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## pabloj13 (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks guys. That chart (and info) is very helpful.


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## Carson (Apr 1, 2018)

Hello... I am new to this forum and just when you think you "know it all" you find out once again that "ya don't"...These are ALL good ideas but, my problem is figuring out which 1 to base my hinge attachment to. I am making a round table that is 40" diameter, that I have to cut in half. My first thought was a piano hinge, but, her is the issue. The top of this table is going to be carved and " wood burning" art. It is for a Native American "prayer table". They want the table to be able to be "folded inward" to protect when being stored. I personally see no way to provide that and suggested they simply cover it when stored. So far they ARE sold on that idea after explaining how it needs to be hinged. I have little experience with piano hinges but have used them in short spans. Is there any suggestions on a "simple way" to attach this with as little "falderall" aka: BS, and be content with the end result. I guess I am looking for the "K.I.S.S." solution here. Thank you.


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## bargoon (Apr 20, 2016)

What about something like this - found it on Lee Valley's site but sure they are sold elsewhere.


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## GuitarPhotographer (Jun 26, 2015)

Guys, did neither of you notice that this is a zombie thread? The last post before Carson's was in 2009.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That don't matter in this case*



GuitarPhotographer said:


> Guys, did neither of you notice that this is a zombie thread? The last post before Carson's was in 2009.


Attaching a piano hinge is rather timeless. The most recent question is still relevant, but there are other options as was suggested. The piano hinge will create a gap and a bump where the hinge is, maybe not good for this project. The swing is 180 degrees and should close up flush for this application. I don't have an answer off hand.... :sad2:


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## bargoon (Apr 20, 2016)

GuitarPhotographer said:


> Guys, did neither of you notice that this is a zombie thread? The last post before Carson's was in 2009.


Yes I did but thought Carson searched the site and had a similar question.


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## aaronhl (Jun 2, 2011)

Slightly slot some of the holes on each face of the hinge so you can start with them to get the hinge aligned, and then screw in the rest of the holes once aligned. Also helps to have the self centering drill bits


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