# Varnishing a bar top/ filling the cracks



## wrc.six.eight (Apr 29, 2009)

I recently built a bar under a tiki hut. It will see about 2.5 hours of direct sun in the morning. I used 3/4 inch red oak veneer plywood and covered the plywood end grain with some solid red oak 1 x 3 "s4s" stock that was far out of true. As I had no helping hands I felt I could not use glue in addition to screws to hold the 1x3 Red oak tight to the plywood while I had to walk the 1x3 down the length of the bar.

The result is that some small cracks (1/16 or less) appeared between the edge of the plywood and the red oak in a few places after a few moisture/ temp cycles. I did not want to add more screws and figured the Varnish would fill the cracks. After 8 coats of varnish, some of the cracks keep reappearing.

I'm not really interested at this point in hearing the 'should have dones' to prevent the cracks, but at a good way of of filling them within the next 2 coats which is all that is left of the of 52 dollar a quart varnish.

I am using Epifanes Clear gloss spar Varnish as it is the highest rated in the boaters world for it's duration to UV Light. The stuff is so incredibly glossy, ones eyes are drawn to the cracks. The slight imperfections that are slowly driving me mad.

I tried dribbling it on thick only in the cracks, but what didnt fall inside and dissappear, basically does not harden if it is too thick and needs to be sanded and rubbed off.

I tried letting it thicken it up in a cup for a few hours than using a razor blade to squeeze it into the crack, but it gots cloudy and did not dry right and needed to be dug out.

This Varnish needs 24 hours between coats so this has been a time consuming finish job that I'm am no longer earning money on.

Am I stuck with putting just 1 layer a day over only the cracks for the next week, or does someone know of a good way to get the cracks to fill in over the 8 layers and 100$ worth of varnish already over the whole bar top?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Try a two part clear epoxy. One application may do it.


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## Jordy3738 (Jan 12, 2009)

How frustrating this must be...

Just curious, once you do find something how will you prevent it from happeming again or do you think you will have to continually maintain it this way?


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## wrc.six.eight (Apr 29, 2009)

The problem with epoxy is it breaks down quickly in UV light. It also forms an amine blush on the surface that must be scraped or sanded off before any secondary bonding can occur. It is also succeptible to softening in heat. And since the owner wanted it stained as dark as possible, and it will be seeing a couple hours of sunlight each day, epoxy is out.

Since the cracks are slowly disappearing with each coat, I think I'm just gonna tape of a thin area around the cracks and put another layer on daily, to preserve what is left of the expensive varnish rather than keep layering the whole bartop.

The cracks were not breaking the varnish with expansion and contraction, the varnish was just falling into the cracks. So hopefully with enough layers, and the fact that the red oak should be nearly completely sealed with the varnish, They should not reopen.


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## scribbles (Mar 2, 2009)

How big are the cracks now? Can you wet-sand the bar top, to bring the top layer down close to the base? Or just build and build over the crack, kind of like an intentional run, the wet sand all that down so you are flat, then put one final layer over the complete bar top, for a nice consistent final coat?

I am just brainstorming, so if I am missing something big, I don't mind hearing I am an idiot, Finishing is my weak point.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

This stuff will do the job easily. Since you have finish on there already just tape around the void and pour the kwik poly in. 

http://kwikpolyllc.com/


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

wrc.six.eight said:


> .
> 
> The result is that some small cracks (1/16 or less) appeared between the edge of the plywood and the red oak in a few places after a few moisture/ temp cycles. .... After 8 coats of varnish, some of the cracks keep reappearing. *And probably will continue to reappear. More coats of varnish are not the answer.*
> 
> ...


_

*Sorry you had to go through this. Normally, 6 coats of Epifanes is good for 2 years in direct sunlight all day long in the hot Texas coast sun. 

Take a deep breath, relax and 'just do it'
*_


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## wrc.six.eight (Apr 29, 2009)

Rick Mosher said:


> This stuff will do the job easily. Since you have finish on there already just tape around the void and pour the kwik poly in.
> 
> http://kwikpolyllc.com/


Having read most of the website I see nothing about UV resistance or color, which is the whole reason I'm using the highest rated very expensive varnish that I can. If this bartop were not ever going to see any sun I would have used an epoxy for it's scratch resistance and clarity. Or just poly/u for it's ease of application.

The above product also claims to be very water like in terms of viscosity and without a thixotropic agent would most likely depress into the voids just like the varnish is doing now. Granted it would cure throughout the depth unlike the varnish. Added to that is the fact that it is unknown whether it would like to stick to the varnish or the varnish to it. Too many unknowns to be experimenting with product compatibility at the near end of this project.

Scribbles, the problem with sanding through a layer of varnish is that under certain light it becomes obvious where the different layers meet. And the more layers applied, the more UV resistance there is to the wood underneath and the varnish itself. So I do not want to be removing any of it if possible.

The owner of the bar is already more than satisfied with the outcome, and is not even concerned with the cracks. He just wants to crack a beer and lean over it. The Ideal Perfectly flat mirror like finish is not possible with this Varnish in an outdoor UV environment, or if it is I am unaware and unwilling to go through the effort. At this point I'll be happy when no standing water can get past the varnish in the cracks, and I am almost there.

I taped off an 1 inch area today around the cracks and lightly sanded within and applied another coat of varnish. Should be done in another 2 or 3 layers

Thanks for the replies.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

wrc.six.eight said:


> The problem with epoxy is it breaks down quickly in UV light. It also forms an amine blush on the surface that must be scraped or sanded off before any secondary bonding can occur. It is also succeptible to softening in heat. And since the owner wanted it stained as dark as possible, and it will be seeing a couple hours of sunlight each day, epoxy is out.............


Epoxy is used quite a bit on boats and by itself, you are correct in that it will rapidly break down. However, the normal marine use of epoxy is then covered with varnish for the UV protection. This is a standard procedure. As for the amine blush, usually all that is needed to get rid of it is a fresh water rinse. It comes right off. 
After you thoroughly mix the 2 components of epoxy, a small amount of stain could be added. A _*very*_ small amount is all you will need to color it. As an alternative to stain, you can mix your own sawdust into the epoxy and it will darken by itself. An alcohol stain/ dye would be better than an oil stain, if you happen to have some.


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## wrc.six.eight (Apr 29, 2009)

Tony B said:


> Epoxy is used quite a bit on boats and by itself, you are correct in that it will rapidly break down. However, the normal marine use of epoxy is then covered with varnish for the UV protection. This is a standard procedure. As for the amine blush, usually all that is needed to get rid of it is a fresh water rinse. It comes right off.
> After you thoroughly mix the 2 components of epoxy, a small amount of stain could be added. A _*very*_ small amount is all you will need to color it. As an alternative to stain, you can mix your own sawdust into the epoxy and it will darken by itself. An alcohol stain/ dye would be better than an oil stain, if you happen to have some.


Had I known the varnish would not fill in the few 1/16 inch cracks I would probable have filled them in with oak colored wood putty then stained it. In fact I could not even see any cracks before or after the ebony stain was applied. Only after I put the first coat of varnish on it were the cracks visible. The varnish is not cracking, it is just failing to fill the cracks as easily as I envisioned originally.

I have worked a lot with epoxy. My login name represents the first Western Red Cedar hollow surfboard I built and have ridden for 7 years now. It is covered with 4 oz fiberglass cloth saturated with System 3 sb112 uv resistant blush free epoxy. I am aware of how finicky it is to improper mixing ratios, and never considered mixing another chemical in with it. I have used some leftover epoxy as outside experiments coated and uncoated with varnish and polyurethanes, and the varnishes do help the epoxy last longer but after 3 years thay all looked the nearly same: bad. Granted it was only one coat of varnish. I did put some epoxy on a piece of dark walnut and in the sun it got so hot I was able to bury my thumbnail into it. 
I have also had secondary bonding issues with other brands of epoxy when I did not scrub and sand off the amine blush from the previous layer and apply the next coat immediatly after that. I would not trust a water rinse to get rid of it.

Again thanks for the replies.


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## Jordy3738 (Jan 12, 2009)

Have you ever posted any pictures of this project? It would be nice to see one. They are worth a thousands ...more sometimes:smile:


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## wrc.six.eight (Apr 29, 2009)

Jordy3738 said:


> Have you ever posted any pictures of this project? It would be nice to see one. They are worth a thousands ...more sometimes:smile:


Which project, the surfboard or the bar?

At one point I thought I could sell the surfboards because of the response I got/ get every time I surf, but unless my labor is worth only 5 $ an hour it is not worth it. I made all the boards to be strong enough and accurate enough to surf well. If they are were intended to be wall hangers only I could cut the labor time in half, but I never wanted to do that.

And very few surfers want one to surf regularly because they aren't the super light disposable potato chips the pros ride.

If you PM me with an e-mail address I'll send you a SB pic though.


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## Webster (Mar 6, 2009)

You could run a 1/4', 1/2" or whatever router bit around the edge, 1/4" deep, and just enough to cover the gap. Drop in a different wood. Add another coat of varnish and it'll look like it was meant to be.
Rick


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

With the kwik poly you can add just about anything as a filler if needed which would give you your UV protection if it is that critical in a 1/16" crack. You can add sawdust from the wood you are using to get a good match. (The wood you used to build with isn't that UV resistant also) The kwik poly is thin like water when you first mix it but if you wait until it starts to warm up it gets thick REALLY fast. I have had it cure while pouring into a check and the cup was frozen in the air over where I was pouring. Looked pretty cool actually.


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## rightendup (May 8, 2009)

Clear shellack stick.
You'll need to buy the plug in burner (cheap)


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