# Creating a design



## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm a firm believer in creating my own designs. Once you do it, you will see how easy it is and the results will be much better than copying. You can copy construction techniques to get started. You can use the proportions of things you like to establish an outline for your project. Start small, do trials of joint details, look closely at things you admire. I personally like the work of Greene & Greene, but would never copy their work. Use it as an inspiration to work out my own designs, yup. They were inspired by Japanese work but didn't copy it.
Larry


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## ronbergley (May 19, 2014)

That is a beautiful approach for a woodworker that is artistic and I applaud you. But some people are wood craftsmen and not artists. They can do beautiful copying with awesome results. We are all different and that is a great thing.

Ron
www.qualitycustominteriors.com


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

"But some people are wood craftsmen and not artists." by saying that you are holding them back. Artistry is a learned skill. We all start out with the chimney sitting crooked. Few will become masters of any skill but good enough to enjoy their own results. Copy, modify, refine, push the limits! Define what makes a great design from the start. Warning, a lot of poor design has been put forth by good PR. "Z" chair is a prime example. My personal thought is that form should follow function. It is not a limitation but rather it gives direction. Get off your deceased burro and do some designing. Larry


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*art vs craft*

Larry this is my point of view as a MFA Industrial Designer with 30 years at the largest Design Studio in the world. Not everyone has artistic or creative ability, but they can be superb craftsman. As a student and as a teacher there are some who "just can't cut it" and can't even visualize a dead racoon on a highway. Thinking "out of the box" is just not possible for some.

Allow me to illustrate with this Interstate highway sign example:
EAST I-40
WEST I-40

NORTH I-75
SOUTH I-75

The first set has 3 letters in common, ES and T.
The second set also has 3 letters in common OT and H.

Why is this an issue? At 55 MPH or higher there is very little to differentiate the direction EAST from WEST and NORTH from SOUTH. A simple fix would make the signs more effective. A larger letter E,W,N or S would communicate much better at speeds and at a greater distance. Will this ever come about? I doubt it because it's thinking outside the box and the structure doesn't allow that. 

Some folks need a "measured drawing" from which to build a project, others need a sketch with some dimensions, and others can just "wing it". I've done it all 3 ways but have become better at winging it over the years as I became more experienced.
A sculptor can see the finished product in the wood or clay or metal before become it becomes a reality. I especially admire the ice sculptors and chainsaw carvers. We worked from sketches all the time when making clay models at GM Design. The sketches were just "lies" on paper, in 2 dimensioons, not 3 dimensions like the clay models. The sculptor has to interpret the sketch made by the designer and it is a 2 way process... back and forth between the 2 disciplines. Both were highly creative artists in their own right however. It was a fun place to work, for sure. :yes:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Well Wooden your point is flawed because everybody knows highways running east and west are always even numbers and odd numbers running north and south. Gees!






Okay, I'm kidding. Just a joke. 

Al


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Dang you*



Al B Thayer said:


> Well Wooden your point is flawed because everybody knows highways running east and west are always even numbers and odd numbers running north and south. Gees!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll fix it...... :yes:


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

I suck at visualizing designs.

I have to search image galleries for inspiration. I do pick and choose features that I like and combine them. Then I render it in sketchup.

I cant even draw a stick figure.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Learning to draw your own designs is a great skill to have, but for a lot of people its just easier to duplicate something. Me, for example, i have no creative side. If i design something, be it furniture or a work bench or a jewelry box, im never starting the design myself from the ground up. What ill do is find a bunch of examples and steal the things i like. I do agree that knowing how to design is extremely important. Be it old-school drafting or 3d modeling, taking the time to plan out all the odds and ends of a project saves time and materials vs just building


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Yes, there is a very significant difference between the "artist" and the craftsman and the twain can meet, but not all of the time.

I am an engineer. I can design a project and make a drawing sufficient that it can be build. I do not have the imagination to add those little touches that make it look really great to a third party.

An example of this is an entertainment center that a friend of mine build many years ago, before I got into wood working. I drew out the basic center with all of the details needed for it to accomplish its purpose. My friend added the subtle little pieces of trim that gave the center its final good looks.

This friend is one of those rare individuals that that create and build an artistic piece of furniture. He still does this today, but with much less equipment. He now only has a folding Craftsman table saw, a bench top jointer, and a router. 

George


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

Bauerbck - You are engaging in design, @ a basic level. If you render in Sketchup you have the ability to go further in design.
epicfail48 - You are your own worst enemy when it comes to design. Move into it slowly. Use the proportions of something you like, put in details you've seen. Do the designing of combining. Very few things created are 100% original design. Virtually all have something in the past as a base. Not having the power tools to do something may only be a limitation of speed, not design. 
As for formal education being a requirement or even an advantage, maybe a little. But it certainly isn't a requirement.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

This is an interesting discussion. My problem is that I am more of an designer than a craftsman. I am working my way up in the craftsman realm. I love to do what-if designs and sketchup is a good tool for that exercise. I probably have 50 SU models that I want to build but really do need to rework them.

My biggest challenge is knowing practical things - like how close to the end of a leg can you put a mortise and have it not fail under normal stress or how best to create a sliding cabinet door that will work for years to come (without using that crap plastic hw). So, I dissect other's designs and plans to gain a little insight. (That has given me a new appreciation of the Arts and Crafts movement back to simplicity in design.) I love watching videos of master craftsmen at work. Probably wouldn't hurt to take a course or two from one of those guys. 

One thing that is important to me is designing for my skill level or maybe a bit beyond so I can learn at little more. In a previous career, I had a lot of focus on "manufacturability". Designing things that could be build quickly with a good level of quality. So I try to do that while still maintaining the core design principles. One saw setting for cutting all the tenons, for example. Or minimizing the different widths of wood. I look at other's designs through that lens as well.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*creativity in design*



Larry42 said:


> ....
> As for formal education being a requirement or even an advantage, maybe a little. But it certainly isn't a requirement.


A formal education does at least 2 things. It exposes you to design in a methodical way, most by studying good design by good/famous designers..... Buckmister Fuller, Charles and Raymond Eames, Eero Sarrinen, Raymod Lowey, Frank Lloyd Wright... et al. We also studied the Old Masters, Rembrandt, Piccasso, Reuben ...et al. and history of Art. And then there are the various "styles" from Arts and Crafts, to Modernism.

There is just not a real good way to do this on your own unless you are extremely well motivated.

The second thing is does is give you a feel where you stand among your peers. As someone who received many more "grades" than I ever handed out as an instructor, it is good to have a rank among your "competition". I worked along side some sculptors who didn't have a clue, but somehow got hired, and faked their way along for enough time to earn some money and learn something in the process. If I had had the authority, some would have been let go early on, as they mostly took up space and oxygen and slowed down the creative process. In industry, time is of the essence, and you are getting paid rather handsomely to perform.

That's not to say creativity can't be learned by formal education or can not be improved by it. Passion is the real motivator in my opinion. If you are passionate about your "craft" what it is, art, design, music, woodworking, even teaching, you will be successful.

I come to this discussion from a different point of view than most woodworkers who earned a living making things like furniture or cabinets from wood. I earned my living by being a creative sculptor in an industrial setting working in a non-hardening type clay, a medium where making a mistake is easily corrected...just add more clay, unlike wood which is not so forgiving. We worked to with a millimeter and less in industrial modeling clay and I'm happy now to keep my work under 1/32". The instruments you see here are capable of measuring in the thousandths or fractions of millimeters:


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

"That's not to say creativity can't be learned by formal education or can not be improved by it. Passion is the real motivator in my opinion. If you are passionate about your "craft" what it is, art, design, music, woodworking, even teaching, you will be successful."
So true. But as the owner of a small shop with 16 employees I can tell you very few are "passionate." The same can be said about many small shop owners. 
I do think one can be too passionate. Limiting their life too narrowly. You don't have to go to "Beer:30" every night, but joining the guys once in awhile can be enlightening.
For some, formal education helps a lot, for others the same issue of passion makes it either good or a waste. And some people simply weren't created with the tools to be the best. 
I was an engineering officer in the Navy. I had access to all of the enlisted men's records, including what was essentially the IQ test given when they enlisted. I saw people with slightly below average results do extremely well and others with higher scores just be a drag on the system. I volunteered to teach the math courses that allowed the men to get their GED. That was a learning experience for me! They needed the most basic level of algebra to pass. Some never got there. They still managed to do their bit to keep an amazing pile of technology afloat. 5600 men in a steel box city with an airport on the roof.


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## Buckbuster31 (Oct 28, 2014)

I hand sketched my first design today...can't wait to make. Glad my engineering back ground helped me with all angles and lengths without too much trouble


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

Hand sketching really should be the first step in any design. Extremely fast, easily changed. But best simply redrawn since it takes less time and preserves the development of the final solution. Work in broad strokes not tight details. I only had one art class in college, basic drawing. It was taught by a grad student (no use wasting a prof time on freshmen!) That beginning class helped me develop my drawing skills far more than I expected. The first exercises were done with vine charcoal. Blunt, soft, messy but they forced the basic idea of beginning with broad stokes. Turns out to be a very effective method. I've always admired simplicity in design and vine charcoal showed how you could create nice work with out the need for tight cramped detail. Big sheets of cheap newsprint so you could work fast and make lots of drawings in a short time. Each exercise had a time limit. A complete drawing in 2 minutes was common. Developing proportions was stressed. The first few classes had piles of junk for the subject. Later classes had female models, helpful in learning to draw flowing lines with shaded contours. If you have access to a university level art drawing class it may be well worth it in accelerating the development of your skills. If not lots of practice on your own. There aren't many good books on the subject, many are outright poor. If you find a good one pass it on. Larry My shop web page: lks-inc.com


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*freehand sketching ......*

If you can draw a straight line, you can freehand sketch....wait  very few people can draw a perfectly straight line. There are 2 dimension sketches and there are 3 dimension sketches. The simple 2 D ones, length and height or width and length are fairly easy. The 3 D ones, not so much. You will need to know about perspective drawing and from what angle you are viewing the object... a whole separate course in Art School. Now throw in a curved object with wheels for instance, like a car. That takes a lot of practice and skill. 

What is a sketch? It's a 2D "lie" about an object, a form of communicating an idea or concept. It ain't the real deal. I could sketch OK, but I was competing with the best illustrators and designers in the World at General Motors. That's when I decided I could make models far better than I could sketch and got very good at it.

Woodworkers won't have to go to that extreme, curves and ellipses in perspective, usually. So a sketch if done well can help you visualize your idea, and when you add dimensions you can build from it. If you can sketch in 3D then all the better. It takes a fair amount of hand/eye coodination to make a sketch from an image in your mind. Some folks can do it, others just can't.
Get out the straight edge, triangles and a sharp pencil for those folks.

Here an example of some curves and straight lines, and thankfully I didn't have to make a sketch of it to build from, it was a build and fit as you go project. The challenge was getting "perfect" rectangles inside an ellipse:


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

Larry42 said:


> The first exercises were done with vine charcoal. Blunt, soft, messy but they forced the basic idea of beginning with broad stokes. Turns out to be a very effective method. I've always admired simplicity in design and vine charcoal showed how you could create nice work with out the need for tight cramped detail. Big sheets of cheap newsprint so you could work fast and make lots of drawings in a short time. Each exercise had a time limit. A complete drawing in 2 minutes was common. Developing proportions was stressed. The first few classes had piles of junk for the subject.


I took a free-hand drawing course in community college when I was 18. I had always been able to draw, but I could only copy. I could never envision anything in my head and draw it, I had to see something with my eyes to draw it. This excercise that you are describing, Larry, changed my life. We were required to do a number of 2 minute sketches every day, some were just getting the lines of movement/angle in correct proportion to each other, some involved getting the suggestions of details in place, but all were 2 minutes. Many were done in vine charcoal, some in pencil. Not only did I get better at drawing , but I learned to see more clearly just what it was I was drawing, the angles of motion, the proportions; it also opened up my mind to be able to envision things in my head. I never expected that to happen, but it did. So, there is a lot to what Larry is saying about creativity being learned. If you really WANT to learn it, you can. There are methods to improving your ability to do so. 

I have made 2 or 3 things from a "plan" in my life, and I have been doing woodworking professionally for 20 years now. But I will say that working from a plan can help a beginner who is trying to learn the use of tools and the methods of construction. However, really looking at furniture pieces and studying how they are put together (that was how I learned a lot in my teens) can also help you to understand joinery. Then you look at the available tools and determine how to get from point A to point B. Does that make sense?


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## dustsnifer (Aug 14, 2013)

*creating a design*

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and was fascinated by the topic and more fascinated by the many viewpoints.

My viewpoint is a different perspective that does not diminish what anyone has stated.

In a previous life, I was a physiological psychologist so when it comes to the brain, vision, etc, I was very passionate about it but also knew however much I thought I knew, there were alwayssssssssss others who made my knowledge resemble a first grade reader.

Some people are what is known as "right hemisphere" and have an natural inherited(hard to prove at times) ability for their particular form of artistry. I have seen in in music , woodworking, literature,guitar, baking, Bonsai and the list continues. All we have to do is look at Mozart or for that matter Michelangelo. His famous "David' was a used piece of marble with an imperfection and look what he created!
Now this does not even consider women since the female brain works quite differently than a man's,

I think exposure to all aspects of artistry and all forms of education does not hurt--it helps!

I have worked from plans and also just looked around at many aspects of my environment to get ideas. I took my first woodworking classes over 25 or 30 years ago and some students were just damn gifted!

What is my bottom line here?

Because no one appears to have mentioned it, I believe I had to reinforce an important physiological fact----The Brain!

sawdust sniffer


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

"Now this does not even consider women since the female brain works quite differently than a man's."
Boy is that true. 
Glad to see someone agrees and has actually had the experience. Thanks MMWood 1. Not everyone can be a Michelangelo (and David, in person, is a lot more impressive than in photos!) But almost everyone can learn to be a better designer. Start with existing works that you admire, to measured drawings of them. Make a copy. Then using the knowledge gained modify the item, keep the proportions. Many great designs retain some level of simplicity, so don't add things that don't help the character you are striving for. Enjoy the learning and progress. Keep good photo records and you can track your advancements.


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