# How much do you use expensive baltic birch plywood?



## sprior (Aug 31, 2008)

It seems when I see magazine and web woodworking projects for jigs, fixtures, and cabinets, very often baltic birch plywood is used. I don't know about the rest of you, but here in CT baltic birch plywood is freaking expensive (>$100/sheet) and not easy to find at places which are open on Saturdays.

Am I just finding some super premium stuff and there are grades of baltic birch which are cheaper and just fine, or am I shopping at the wrong places, is actually building stuff more expensive than just buying tools, or am I falling for a joke on newbies that baltic birch plywood is used for everything?

Steve


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

* 3/4" 4X8 CABINET GRADE BIRCH*
*$39.94

*Just checked Lowes. Not too bad for CG ply. Nice thing about birch,
with the right stain it can match almost any other wood.

Just looked, your store doesn't carry it. I would just move!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


:boat::boat::boat:


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## sprior (Aug 31, 2008)

I bought a quarter sheet of birch plywood at Home Depot and noticed it had some voids in the layers. What grade do you have to look for that won't have that?


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## sprior (Aug 31, 2008)

So what's the difference you'd expect between the $40/sheet cabinet grade birch at Lowes and the $100/sheet "europly"?


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

The Baltic Birch plywood I buy comes in 5' X 5' sheets. One half inch baltic birch I believe has 9 plys. I have used in in drawer construction. I don't use it to build cabinets. I might use scrap pieces to build jigs. However, most jigs I build are out of MDF or scrap pieces of non baltic birch plywood. Yes, it is very expensive and I have to drive 40 miles to purchase it.
Tom


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## Julian the woodnut (Nov 5, 2008)

I use baltic birch for my jigs. I don't like particle board for use in my jigs because it swells over time in my shop. The jigs made from baltic birch stay true and flat through the seasonal changes.


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## jimc48 (Sep 12, 2007)

Baltic Birch has very few voids, unlike the birch plywood you find at Big Orange/Blue. My experience with their plywood (especially that made in China) is that as soon as you cut it, it warps and becomes unusable. Yes, Baltic Birch is expensive, but it shouldn't be as much as you quoted in your original post. I have to special order it at my local lumber/hardware store but I recently got a sheet of 1/2", 5' x 5' for right about $50. I think the 3/4" runs about $70-$75 and has 15 plys. I use it for jigs, drawers, and cabinets. I'm sure it does warp but I've never had it do so to me. Is it worth the extra cost - only you can make this judgment. If I can find decent hardwood plywood (good surface, very few voids) at a reasonable price, I will likely use it for cabinets but I seldom find good quality at a good price.

Jim


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

sprior said:


> It seems when I see magazine and web woodworking projects for jigs, fixtures, and cabinets, very often baltic birch plywood is used. I don't know about the rest of you, but here in CT baltic birch plywood is freaking expensive (>$100/sheet) and not easy to find at places which are open on Saturdays.
> *That is a bit high. Usually around $50 a 5'X5' piece of 1/2" BB and $75 for the 3/4"*
> Am I just finding some super premium stuff *( No, just over paying)*.... or am I shopping at the wrong places,* (yes)* is actually building stuff more expensive than just buying tools*,(Yes)* or am I falling for a joke on newbies that baltic birch plywood is used for everything? *Baltic Birch is used quite extensively for jigs that will be used often and for a very long time. *Steve


*Jigs are like any other tool in that the end result of your project depends largely on the accuracy of your tools. Baltic Birch is very stable and very durable. * 

I bought a quarter sheet of birch plywood at Home Depot and noticed it had some voids in the layers. What grade do you have to look for that won't have that? *You will never find anything worthwhile in Home Depot. If there was an equivelant of K-Mart in woodworking, Home Depot would not even meet their standards. If you want to avoid voids in your cabinet grade lumber, DONT go to Home Depot. I suggest you go to local cabinet shops and ask where they get their hardwood plywood. *
*Also, don't confuse Birch cabinet grade plywood with Baltic Birch plywood. Two different animals except for the face.*

So what's the difference you'd expect between the $40/sheet cabinet grade birch at Lowes and the $100/sheet "europly"? 
*Baltic Birch also has a made in America equivelant - Apple Ply , which is made in 4' X 8' sheets and is every bit as good. BB and ApplyPly have many more layers and are void free. Usually cabinet makers dont use BB for the actual construction of the cabinets. It is commonly used for drawer sides (1/2" thick) and serves that purpose well. Also note that if you find a supplier of good cabinet grade plywood, it too should be pretty much void free. *
*If I sound opinionated as anti-Home Depot, it's only because I really am. I am fortunate enough to have high quality lumber/plywood suppliers within an hours drive away and they are actually less expensive than the big box stores. *


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

People on here keep "bad mouthing" Home Depot/Lowes or other similar. Not everyone is so lucky to have this great hardwood dealer located within a mile of them.

Please remember that many people really have nothing else to use. They are pretty much limited to what they can mail order or purchase at these stores.

G


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

If you have a Rocklers or Woodcraft Store near you, they normally carry the baltic birch and occasionally run it on sale.
Mike Hawkins


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

GeorgeC said:


> People on here keep "bad mouthing" Home Depot/Lowes or other similar. Not everyone is so lucky to have this great hardwood dealer located within a mile of them.
> 
> Please remember that many people really have nothing else to use. They are pretty much limited to what they can mail order or purchase at these stores. G


The places I go to are not a mile, more like 40 or so miles through downtown Houston traffic. With no traffic jams, it could still take an hour and 15 minutes each way. Thats a lot of time to lose when you do this for a living but no crying from me about how far.
Not to be arguementative, but if I did *not* bad mouth Home Depot, would that mean the product is now better? Obviously, these problems existed way before I bad mouthed Home Depot. Maybe I should blame the skill of the craftsman instead? 
Anyway, I offered what I felt was a great alternative "*I suggest you go to local cabinet shops and ask where they get their hardwood plywood."* If more people would check local cabinet shops they might be surprised at what is available locally that they didn't even know existed. The local cabinet shops are getting their premium lumber from somewhere. 
If a local resident asked me if I can call him prior to a delivery so he can buy a few pieces of lumber, I certainly would. I already do that for a few locals with lacquer and other finishing products. If I have the stuff delivered, I dont charge them the delivery charge because I would have paid for that anyway.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

> People on here keep "bad mouthing" Home Depot/Lowes or other similar. Not everyone is so lucky to have this great hardwood dealer located within a mile of them.
> 
> Please remember that many people really have nothing else to use. They are pretty much limited to what they can mail order or purchase at these stores.
> 
> G


If you have a big box near you, then you also likely have a quality lumber yard close by. It just takes a little research. I do some renovation work for a couple of customers in your area, and there are some great lumber yards around. Gatlin and Hodges in Ft. Walton both carry great product, and are easy to deal with.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

GeorgeC said:


> ..... Not everyone is so lucky to have this great hardwood dealer located within a mile of them. G


When I lived in Gulfport, Ms. I had Acadian Hardwoods deliver plywood and exotic hardwoods to me from Ponchatoula, La. free with a minimum order and their trucks delivered pretty dep into Florida. Now they have another location in Chipley, Fl. and their delivery area covers the entire Fl. panhandle. How did I find out about Acadian Hardwoods? I asked cabinet shop owners. Same way I found the exotic lumber dealers and quality plywood dealers in the Houston area.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

mwhafner said:


> If you have a big box near you, then you also likely have a quality lumber yard close by. It just takes a little research. I do some renovation work for a couple of customers in your area, and there are some great lumber yards around. Gatlin and Hodges in Ft. Walton both carry great product, and are easy to deal with.


Hodges primarily carries treat lumber. They have nothing to do with woodworking type of materials.

Galtin carries s2s hardwoods of a limited variety. Except for mail order they have been my only source of hardwoods for 32 years. Gatlin can order some plywoods if given enough lead time.

However, my comments were not about myself. I know how to go about finding what I need. 

There many people who have even more limited resources than I have. Tony's traveling 40 miles seems like a small trip to me. When I lived in Houston (Clear Lake City for 9 years) I often traveled that far and farther for many different things. I would consider that local.

My problem is some on here always saying how bad the big box stores are. You might not like their materials (and yes they are not up to the quality on many of their woods that we would like) but that is the only local resource of many people. It would be most helpful if you would suggest how these people could make use of the big box woods instead of just telling how bad these woods are.

This is especially true for plywoods. These are very expensive to ship. 

Just my rant.

George


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

*George C*

I don't know what Acadian Hardwoods is like in Florida. It seems like their La. location had a better selection of imported hardwoods than their Tx. location. I believe that in La. you can still get their cypress in random lengths and widths but in Tx. it is all pre-planed and cut similar in sizes to standard pine lumber. You might enjoy a walk-through their facility if it is close by.


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## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

The closest supplier of BB and hardwood is over 100 mi. from me. Coincidentally, so is the closest large shopping mall. I plan my BB purchases to when the LOML wants to go mall crawling.:yes::yes:
Some local cabinet shops order from the same place where I get the BB. If I need a few sheets, the supplier will throw it on one of their regular loads to the cab. shops. Same with hardwoods. You might check to see if a shop gets deliveries and work out an arrangement with them.


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## jaros bros. (Feb 18, 2009)

Tony B,

I have been buying from Clark's. They are pricey but I've found the material to be top notch. Been to Mason's. Any places you frequent that you like?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

jaros bros. said:


> Tony B,
> 
> I have been buying from Clark's. They are pricey but I've found the material to be top notch. Been to Mason's. Any places you frequent that you like?


My wife is not into woodworking but she wont let me go to Houston Hardwoods alone. She just starts stacking up the exotics and says "have fun". Brazos is also great. Brazos dont separate their maple. If you look through the stacks, you will find curly and birdseye and it's the same price as the cheap maple. I have not been to BC yet but I understand they have a great selection of slabs.

*www.bcwoodwork*.com www.*houstonhardwoods*.com www.*brazos*fp.com 

*After you visit these places let me know what you think about the quality, selection and prices*.

*Brazos also sells a waterproof MDF called Extira without formaldehyde.*


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Tony B said:


> I don't know what Acadian Hardwoods is like in Florida. It seems like their La. location had a better selection of imported hardwoods than their Tx. location. I believe that in La. you can still get their cypress in random lengths and widths but in Tx. it is all pre-planed and cut similar in sizes to standard pine lumber. You might enjoy a walk-through their facility if it is close by.


Their only Florida store iis in Panama City, 70 miles from me. I have not been there more than 6 times in the 32 years I have lived here. And at least 4 of those times I was looking for a boat to purchase. Just not much in my interest over there.

I can get all of the cypress I want from a mill I first used 31 years ago. At that i\time all they milled was cypress. I hauled back $150 worth in my Suburban. It was really loaded. All rough cut and up to 16 feet long. 1x12 and 2x10. That truckwas loaded. I still have some of that wood. I was building my screen enclosed and roofed patio.

I is hard typing on thisd llaptop

George


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## NKYDarrell (Sep 14, 2009)

since i'm fairly new to woodworking, the voids in the CG birch plywood at the big box stores don't really seem that big, do they cause any problems other than aesthetics? I would think that If you were using ply for a piece of furniture that you wouldn't be leaving the edges exposed anyway. Do those voids cause any issues with joinery or something else that I may be missing?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

NKYDarrell said:


> .....the voids in the CG birch plywood at the big box stores don't really seem that big, do they cause any problems other than aesthetics? I would think that If you were using ply for a piece of furniture that you wouldn't be leaving the edges exposed anyway. Do those voids cause any issues with joinery or something else that I may be missing?


Aesthetics are important. Say for instance you have your board that will be a top of a coffee table, You cut to width, square up on end and aare making your last and final cut to length and whammo - the edge face shatters because there was a ply missing underneath it. Or during assembly you press down on one spot and it breaks through. Depending on design part of the edge of the ply might be exposed. And joinery could be affected by missing veneers.
Aesthetics aside, the face veneers are inferior, the boards are rough handled and the face veneers are fairly thin compared to other lumber companies which means you can accidentally sand through them easier.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

> .....the voids in the CG birch plywood at the big box stores don't really seem that big, do they cause any problems other than aesthetics? I would think that If you were using ply for a piece of furniture that you wouldn't be leaving the edges exposed anyway. Do those voids cause any issues with joinery or something else that I may be missing?


There are applications where voids can be a serious issue, like building speaker cabinets. 

Along the line of Tony Bs comments, the veneer thickness and rough handling are two of the biggest issues I have with the big box stores. Also, make sure you check the edges for square. The last sheet I bought at Lowes was about 1/2" out in 4'.

At least here, HD has started carrying a little better product. It is only 5 ply, but the veneer is considerably thicker.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

My local Rockler carries BB cut outs (about 22"x22") for $5 or 3 for $12.

Long Beach Plywood (expensive) sells BB 3/4" sheets for around $45. (5'x5')

Reel Lumber has BB for slightly less but is a longer drive.

Austin Hardwoods has BB but I can't remember the prices. 

The point being is that there are a lot of sources out here in an area that is not exactly woodworking central. In your area, there are probably several more suppliers. I can't believe that your supplier will stay in business at $100 per sheet. That is about $4 a sq. foot!

Talk to a few cabinet shops. Explain that you're a home woodworker and looking for a supplier. Most will offer the names of a few suppliers. Some, if you're lucky, will offer to add a sheet or two to their normal order for you. (If this is the case, be sure to pay in cash. The owner will really appreciate it.)


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