# Thoughts on table saws for kitchen cabinet build



## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

Good Morning!

I am looking to get your thoughts on a couple useds saws to be used when I build my kitchen cabinets over the winter. I have a sears portable table saw that I'm looking to upgrade. Price is a concern but I don't want a total piece of junk.

I've looked at a few new ones and was drawn towards the current Ridgid model, but the HD only brand concerns me from a replacement part standpoint. That being said it can be picked up for $450 ($500 less 10% coupon).

I've found the following:

*Craftsman for $350*
Heavy duty, belt driven 3 hp motor (Model #315.228490).
Bevel handwheel and scale.
Height adjustment handwheel.
Large 44" table with extensions.
Includes Craftsman Mobile Base #22252 (easy to move).



















It looks like the table extensions are iron and I've read about some issues with the earlier fences. This saw looks clean, but it's only $100.00 from the new Ridgid.

*TABLE SAW - DELTA 10" - $575*
This saw has a 30" Biesemeyer Fence, cast iron top, one aluminum extension and one laminate exention that houses a PC router. I know the Biesemeyer Fence is well desired, but I know nothing about the saw itsself. I have a router, but need to get a table for it.





































*Craftsman for $500*
This saw is new and has never been used. Sears.com has this listed for around $900.00 so it's the best priced saw of the bunch it seems.










Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts, comments, and opinions on this.

tombstone


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

All capable saws, all look to be in nice shape, all overpriced by a fair amount IMHO. None are current enough to have a riving knife. 

The Craftsman 22114 is a hybrid saw and has cabinet mounted trunnions that are easier to reach and align, and solid cast iron wings, but it also has a fence that's a little weak. Sears has sold it since 2004 in the $500-$679 range...sometimes less on sale, so $500 used without warranty support is pretty high ($900 retail never happened with that one). New or not, I doubt it has any warranty support... $350-$400 if it's really nice would be fair IMO. It's big brother, the 22124 comes with a Biesemeyer fence and a full enclosure, and would be worth $500 used IMO, but not the 22114. 

The Delta has a great fence, but that's a 10-15 year old traditional contractor saw with a steel wing that probably sold new for $500-$700....again, $575 with no warranty is high. $400-$450 would be about tops for me depending on how it looks and runs, and other extras included. 

The first one is a Ryobi made Craftsman contractor saw that's very similar to the Ryobi made Ridgid contractor saws. $250 is more reasonable for that saw IMO, and I've seen them go for less. It has grated cast iron wings. The 3hp claim is bogus....1.5 is realistic. 

Once you get to a certain price, I either want more saw, or would consider going with a new saw that has dealer support.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply! That's the problem I notice when buying anything used ... the current owner always values it based on what they paid for it not what its worth.

Getting the Ryobi made craftsman down $100.00 will more than likely not happen. So of three, none of them are must buys.

If I wanted to keep my budget at around $500 what would you suggest as the best bang for the buck?

I have a split shop - the table saw will be in the garage and the rest of the equipment is in the basement shop. I was originally concerned a bit about space and looking at the Bosch, but decided that a belt drive is the way to go for all the obvious reasons.

Thoughts on the new Ridgid haven't been outstanding but as far as a new saw goes it is definately affordable.

Lowes carrier the Steel CIty 35990C for right around $700.00. That's pushing the budged by $130 factoring in the 10% off coupon.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would keep my eye out for a good used contractors saw, or a hybrid with cast iron wings, and a "T" square type fence. Recent Delta's might be a good choice...parts are available.

Of course if you have the bucks, nothing beats new equipment. If you decide on used, go see it, turn it on, make sure it's what it's claimed to be.










 







.


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## bofa (Jul 17, 2010)

Agree with above - if you have the patience and are comfortable with used, scout Craigslist daily, even hourly, until you find the right deal.

But if you do go new and decide on one of the box store saws, see if your HD or Lowes will take the 20% HF coupon. I have the newer Ridgid and have been fairly happy so far.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

Have you had any issues with the stamped extensions vs. the cast iron extensions? I've read comments about that, but am not sure what effect it would have on me.

I've also read negative comments on the split rail design. Has that been an issue for you?

I just got a HF flier but there wasn't a 20% off coupon in there. A good friend of mine knows the manager at the local HD so that may help out.

Thanks!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*knotscott is right on*

Without recommending any of the saws above, although I have owned all 3 types, my favorite being the Craftsman 22124 here's what I will suggest.

When I started making cabinets 40+ years ago, I used a Skil saw to cut the 4 x 8 panels into workable sizes...I still do on occasion. It makes the rips lighter and more manageable to work with on the tablesaw. 
So, the amount of space, or width to the right of the blade is critical for ripping the 4 x 8's into useable widths. There are 2 "magic" numbers that keep coming up, 24" and 32" even 36" sometimes. For economy of materials the 24" become a saw kerf less.....no big deal. That becomes the depth of the cabinet lowers. The 32" is the height depending on the end user, in my case I made mine 35" tall for a taller user, so including the top, pretty close to 36". This is a good height for most kitchen tasks, unless you are 5' 0" tall. This is all personal, so it ain't the "gospel" of cabinet design by any means.

Back to the saw and cutting panels, I would want a cross cut sled with a 25" capacity, or a fence I could set right of the blade, to 36". The amount of support to the sides and off the front and rear when working with 4 x 8 panels is about 20 ft x 8 ft. and a ceiling height of at least 9 ft, just to make life easier.

If you break down the panels on saw horses with a Skil saw, this space requirement of 20 ft. is less of an issue. The new Saw Track guides by Dewalt, Makita and Festool are great, but you can make a super simple guide for under $10.00 using 1/4 ply or Masonite and a 1 x 3 that will do the same thing. You have to always align it accurately to your cut marks. The warning here is that you must accurately measure in at both ends of the length of your panel for the rip, and make the cut dead on. 
For me this would get very old and time consuming for each width, so I prefer the tablesaw. And one with lots of side support and an off feed table as well. 

Best of all worlds is the panel saw...JMO, like at the Home Depot and other box stores. They are not widely known for their accuracy, but they can be set up very precisely. They are Expensive! but kits are available and home built versions have saved the builders $$$. I have made my own and I love the thing! The advantage is you move the saw not the panel which saves space and is a less cumbersome operation.

So, you are no doubt confused by now, sorry. just relaying my own experience here.  bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

tombstone said:


> Have you had any issues with the stamped extensions vs. the cast iron extensions? ...


Solid cast iron is what I consider to be a "nice to have" feature, but not a must have. They add mass, create flat smooth surface, and are stronger than the stamped steel. Stamped steel hasn't been an issue for me, but they're more prone to getting dented or deformed. Cast iron wings can be added later on to most standard 27" deep saws...some will be a direct fit, others need a little modification, but cast iron drills easily.

I agree with you about going full size with a belt drive induction motor...gives you every performance advantage over a portable direct drive saw.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

If that ended up being an upgrade I wanted to do later is there an after market source for those or would I need to find a donor saw?

Have you found the fence to be accurate? I can't recall if it's a t-sqaure style or not.

Thanks again!


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

knotscott said:


> All capable saws, all look to be in nice shape, all overpriced by a fair amount IMHO. None are current enough to have a riving knife.
> 
> The Craftsman 22114 is a hybrid saw and has cabinet mounted trunnions that are easier to reach and align, and solid cast iron wings, but it also has a fence that's a little weak. Sears has sold it since 2004 in the $500-$679 range...sometimes less on sale, so $500 used without warranty support is pretty high ($900 retail never happened with that one). New or not, I doubt it has any warranty support... $350-$400 if it's really nice would be fair IMO. It's big brother, the 22124 comes with a Biesemeyer fence and a full enclosure, and would be worth $500 used IMO, but not the 22114.
> 
> ...


In his post he said the Craftsman was $350.

G


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

There were two craftsman. One was $350 and the other $500.

Thanks.


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## bofa (Jul 17, 2010)

tombstone said:


> Have you had any issues with the stamped extensions vs. the cast iron extensions? I've read comments about that, but am not sure what effect it would have on me.
> 
> I've also read negative comments on the split rail design. Has that been an issue for you?
> 
> ...


No issues with the wings so far, cutting up to 2x4 panels from 1/8 boards to 3/4 ply. If guys can get by with those bench top saws, there's not much you can't do with this. It's just a matter of dialing it in and setup. The 2 piece rail took some finesse to line up and mount but the operation has been very smooth. I will say the left side measuring tape on the rails is off a bit but I haven't tried to address that yet. I always measure from the blade anyway. I would of course prefer cast iron wings, 1 piece rails, etc but I'd also prefer a sawstop. =)

As with all products some people have different expectations and in the reviews I've read, that seems to be the difference. I got this to be an intermediate saw for hobby use. Plus I have historically bad luck with used items, so for $375 it was a steal. Also remember it comes with a good warranty and a mobile base, which might be extra on some setups.

You can usually find a printable HF coupon online. Just check the exp date.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

GeorgeC said:


> In his post he said the Craftsman was $350.
> 
> G


Yes...and I'm suggesting $250 is more reasonable (and fair) IMHO.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree with most but your running out of time for winter work. I would keep looking especially at the new Craftsman for $500 because it's clearance time at stores everything still in stock on January 20th has an inventory tax due. Stores will usually let stuff go dirt cheap instead of paying the inventory tax.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm going to look at the Ryobi made Craftsman saw in a day or two. Depending on its condition I'll offer $250. Are there any inherent issues I should be looking for? Would these be a better saw that the current Ridgid saw?


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## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

tombstone said:


> I'm going to look at the Ryobi made Craftsman saw in a day or two. Depending on its condition I'll offer $250. Are there any inherent issues I should be looking for? Would these be a better saw that the current Ridgid saw?


We can help you look if you give us your location.

Next you may notice there isn't too much enthusiasm for the newer Craftsman ala Ryobi. However the older 22124 or 22114 were made by Orion/Steelcity and are very comparable to hybrid/contractor models of well known brands like Jet, Delta, Grizzly, but would be considered a budget model yet still deliver the long lasting performance and quality.

You have to make the decision if your budget is low $500 or less are you going to buy a new low budget TS, that may get it done but will be lacking in some of the major qualities of better saws. OR, will you buy used and try to get the most bang for your buck hopefully spending $400-$500 for a real $1000-$1300 saw. One decision you are working right away, the other you will have to be patient and may take a month or two, may take extra effort to go pickup and setup as well as return the saw to top performance.

Buying used and getting a good deal requires knowing what something is really worth, WWT can help you with that, knotscott gave you excellent pricing advice and the reasons why. The 22124 I just bought a couple of months ago for $400 got about $200 of extras, and a year a half ago got the 22114 for $280, but it had a weak fence system, though I could live with it, I wanted the repeatability of a quality fence so upgrade to the 22124. Also if you buy used provided you paid the right price, in my case I wanted to upgrade I can easily sell the 22114 for $350-400 actually more than I invested (I gave it to my son). If you spend $400 for a New low end TS and decide to upgrade you lose money after a year maybe 30%.

Good luck...


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

tombstone said:


> I'm going to look at the Ryobi made Craftsman saw in a day or two. Depending on its condition I'll offer $250. Are there any inherent issues I should be looking for? Would these be a better saw that the current Ridgid saw?


Any traditional contractor saw with an outboard motor has the inherent disadvantages of having an outboard motor.... extra space, poor dust collection, longer belt, and a lifting hazard if the motor catches on anything when tilting it. 

The Ryobi-made contractor saws did have a rash of mis-cut arbors that showed up on both the Craftsman and Ridgid saws...it didn't effect all of them, and it's only a problem when running a stacked dado. 

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Woodmaster123 (Feb 26, 2011)

Any of the three are better than what I used to make my first set of kitchen cabinets twenty years ago. I even used a crude home made router table with a dado cut in plywood for the miter slot to make the raised panels and door frames. It is amazing what you can do with inadequate machines and tools. When I build new cabinets I will have some very nice equipment. Would not be surprised if the old equipment preformed as good as the new.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the info. I live in Pittsburgh, PA if anybody knows of anything for sale in my area.

Just to confirm, the Craftsman saw in the first couple of pictures is not a good saw correct?

I'm in saw overload.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

:laughing:


tombstone said:


> ...Just to confirm, the Craftsman saw in the first couple of pictures is not a good saw correct?


It *is* a decent saw, and a reasonable purchase at $250 IMHO. My thoughts are that $350 for a used one is too much, but that's just one man's opinion...as a comparison, it's possible to buy a new Ridgid R4512 for $400-$450 with a 20% HF coupon if they'll accept it. 

Some will fuss over the fact that it's wearing a Craftsman name plate, but the tool itself is fine. It's a basic full size cast iron contractor saw with grated cast iron wings, belt drive induction motor, and a reasonable fence....it's got all the necessary stuff. Beats the heck out of a smaller portable saw with a direct drive universal motor! It's actually very similar to the former Ridgid TS2424, TS3612, TS3650 (also made by TTI/Ryobi), which were very popular saws, and shares many of the parts with the former Craftsman and Ridgid contractor saws. These saws don't have the heft of a 3hp industrial cabinet saw, not quite as nice as the better hybrids, don't have the best dust collection, etc., but once setup properly and fitted with a good blade, are very capable of decent work. Many of us have successfully used saws like that one. :thumbsup:

p.s.: I just sent the seller an email telling him he's asking too much for the saw. He'll be putty by the time you look at it! :laughing:

p.s.s: It does look like used prices are on the high side in the Pittsburgh area....dunno if they're actually selling at those prices, but people are probably referencing other listings for price guidance. Did you happen to see this Craftsman 22104 for $350? It's the entry level steel wing version of the Craftsman "zipcode" saws....very similar to the 22114 and similar guts to the 22124....cabinet mounted trunnions, serpentine belt drive, etc. It usually sold new in the $550 range. $350 isn't a steel, but it's more reasonable than some I've seen in your area, and has a mobile base....it'd be great if it runs well and they'd take $275-$300. If it's still available, they might be willing to deal.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

I am planning on seeing the saw you found later in the week when the seller returns. I've already breached the price question and there is some room there. 

I agree at $350 it makes no sense due to the new Ridgid price point.

I sent an email to the owner of the saw you found to see if it is still available. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again for all the help guys!


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## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

Good Luck, the below list has many options, some not very good, some GREAT! As I said before you have to know what something is worth to get a good deal. As knotscott pointed many saws in your area are way over priced, the seller is basing the price on what he paid for it, not what the current market price is. You will have to pass on some good saws because the seller refuses to deal. Note that can change when he doesn't sell his saw for 3 weeks. When hunting for a deal, you have to check CL daily, you want to be the first to call. 

Again good luck

Dec 20 - Ridgid 10" Cast Iron Table Saw - $449 (Washington, PA) 
Nov 23 - Table saw 10 in. - $400 (Venetia pa.
Dec 16 - Craftsman table saw - $550 (Flushing,OH)
Dec 5 - Rigid table saw light commercial - $320 - (orwell)
Dec 29 - Ridgid Table Saw & Porter Cable Bicuit Joiner - $450 (Aurora, OH)
Dec 18 - Rigid Table Saw / Table Saw near new R4512 - $400 - (Huntington, WV)
Nov 23 - Grizzly 10" Table Saw - $350
***Dec 28 - Grizzly 1.5 HP Table Saw - $350 - (S. of Breezewood, PA)
***Dec 7 - NEW Craftsman 10" Prof Table Saw - $500 (I bought this same model 1.5yrs ago for $280, but was missing some of the accessories).
***Dec 30 - 10" Sears Professional Table Saw - $700 (Boonsboro Md)(I bought this same saw 2 months ago for $400 (included $200 of new unused blades and accessories, so have many others, start at $400 don't pay more than $500-$600. Let him know you can buy a brand new Grizzly for $800)
Jan 1 - Delta Contractor Series 2000 10" Table Saw - $375 - (Fairfax City va
Dec 30 - DELTA CONTRACTORS SAW - $495 - (HUGHESVILLE MD
Dec 31 - Grizzly Table Saw - $675 - (Codorus Township)


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*This one gets my vote*

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/2772874817.html :thumbsup: bill


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/2663683167.html

Any thoughts on this? It looks similiar to the Craftsman.


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## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

for less money this saw is superior 
***Dec 28 - Grizzly 1.5 HP Table Saw - $350 - (S. of Breezewood, PA)

Also
***Dec 7 - NEW Craftsman 10" Prof Table Saw - $500
This saw is NEW never been used, if you can get it for $400 or less you have very good saw essentially new. That model saw sold for $400-500 new when on sale many times. However many people also paid $600-$750 for it too. Be honest with the guy the fence is the weak spot, the 22114's big brother 22124 with the full cabinet extra 1/4hp, and best of all the *biesemeyer fence *will popup for $500 sooner or later and you want the better fence. If he goes for $400 & you buy it, save your money and upgrade the fence to the T2 and you have excellent saw you will be very happy with. You can live with the existing fence, in fact since yours is brand new, it might not have the problems I had, however I think repeatability (parallel with the saw blade) is NOT built in to that fence. Some days I had it and others I didn't. There is a cam lever inside the clamping mechanism, I think mine was warped and that caused the fence on the outfeed side to move slightly when locking down the fence.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

tombstone said:


> http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/2663683167.html
> 
> Any thoughts on this? It looks similiar to the Craftsman.


You're correct...it's very similar to the Craftsman (made in the same plant by the same company, and shares many parts), but has stamped steel wings vs grated cast iron. It is in nice shape, but it too is overpriced by ~ $100 IMO.


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## m2244 (Dec 16, 2011)

Here is a seearch tool I use for craigslist. It will search craigslist for you within a specific radius of your area so that you don't have to go to different location pages on craigslist yourself, if that makes any sense. I love it.

Good luck.

http://www.searchtempest.com/


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

http://frederick.craigslist.org/tls/2760802960.html

Thoughts on this one?


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## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

I bought that Craftsman 22114 brand new at Sears six months ago on clearence for $400, so $500 seems high.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

tombstone said:


> http://frederick.craigslist.org/tls/2760802960.html
> 
> Thoughts on this one?


Looks nice. One solid cast iron wing, extension table, extra wide rip capacity, stock blade guard. No mobile base. Looks like a fair deal on a good saw to me. Can't hurt to haggle a little...ask about the mobile base, blades, extra inserts, etc.! :thumbsup:


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

I was looking into the Craftsman 22114 but it's listed at Sears for over $1k. I've seen posts online saying that this saw sold for $600 to $700 dollars. 

Is this the same saw? What's up with the substantial price difference.

I'm leaning towards a new saw as those with used won't budge from their prices. Are there any other good new saws that won't break the bank? I was trying to keep my saw budget under $600 but I can see that may not be realistic.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

tombstone said:


> I was looking into the Craftsman 22114 but it's listed at Sears for over $1k. I've seen posts online saying that this saw sold for $600 to $700 dollars.
> 
> Is this the same saw? What's up with the substantial price difference.
> 
> I'm leaning towards a new saw as those with used won't budge from their prices. Are there any other good new saws that won't break the bank? I was trying to keep my saw budget under $600 but I can see that may not be realistic.


Any chance you're confusing the 22114 with the 22116 on the $1k price? I don't see the 22114 on their site any longer. The 22116 is currently on sale at $940. 

The Cman 21833 and nearly identical Ridgid R4512 are both full size saws < $600 that get respectable reviews....both made by Dayton. If the prices are close, Ridgid offers a Lifetime Service Agreement (LSA)....it's not a full lifetime warranty, and you need to register for it, but it beats a stick in the eye. I'm reading stories of folks getting HD to accept a Harbor Freight 20% off coupon, which knocks off a pretty good chunk, leaving budget for blades and accessories. 

Also, Lowes and HD can both order the Steel City 35990. There are 3 variations with different top/wing material. The 35990SS goes for $619 on Lowes site. There are fewer reviews on these, but they're mainly positive. 

Lowes also has the Porter PCB270TS for < $600, but it uses a plastic elevation gear that's a problem waiting to happen. That doesn't mean it won't work well for you, as there are happy owners of the saw, but it'd be my 4th choice of the new models mentioned.

Is that Delta with a Unifence for $495 gone?


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

There is a VERY good chance that I'm confusing part numbers at this point in time ...

I took a look at the Porter Cable and was less then thrilled with it.

I was looking strongly at the Ridgid R4512 - a friend of mine has one and loves it. I have a friend who knows the manager at HD so the 20% off coupon may be a reality. That would take that saw down to $427 after taxes.

The Delta with the Unifence is still available and he'd take $450 for it, but it's a 5-1/2 hour drive one way for me.


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## jjrbus (Dec 6, 2009)

I had an older Craftsman, it was so so and the fence was poor, key word here is older. The fence was useless, needed tweaking on every cut! Might as well used a board and a couple C clamps.

I watched Craigslist for some time and found a Rigid TS3660 with very little use including a Freud Dado blade for $250! The top was a bit rusted but cleaned up well. It came with a cast iorn extension on each side. Part of the guard was missing and will be $24 shipped. The seller told me the blade needed replacing, but I cleaned it and it works well. I believe this saw new was $399, I could be wrong. The Dado is about $100

The manual did not come with the saw, but I was able to download it online. I went through the saw like it was a new set up to be safe.

Happy with the saw, does everything I need to do and the fence once adjusted works very well. If I were to nitpick the groves for the miter slide are not a t, would be nice to add a washer to my sled slides for stability, not much of a complaint. 


I should add I am retired and have the luxury of time, I did chase down some junk. Sometimes you just need to step up and buy new. HTH JIm


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/2674119564.html

This saw is still available and the price is firm. Thoughts?


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## jjrbus (Dec 6, 2009)

I would be taking a close look at the blades. Are they quality blades in good condition? Could be a lot of money right there.

A decent dado can be $100, It is easy to spend $80 on one saw blade. Of course a Harbor freight adjustable dado is $20 and an abused saw blade is worthless. Many times a blade just needs to be cleaned. Heat is bad for blades look for burn marks.

Look around does it appear that the person does quality work and takes care of his things, good indication that he took care of the saw. Are there any cut boards in sight, do they have burn marks? 


Hard to tell condition from the picture,? But there may be a lot of value there.There is either a yellow extension cord hanging on the handle or he put a longer cord on it. I just put a 12' cord on mine $15 in material! Do you need a longer cord, I do. I'd love to have that fence.

Do you need the wheels? I am not sure but some new saws do not seem to include wheels, $50 option. My saw is all over the shed, sometimes I roll it outside, so I do not have a mess to clean up or more room to work.

Some of my thoughts when looking myself. HTH JIm


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Those are neat old saws, and it comes with an excellent Biesemeyer fence. Whether or not it's worth $400 is going to be a personal "executive" type decision that only you can make. 

$400 puts it within $100 (or less) of a new Ridgid R4512 or Craftsman 21833. This old Craftsman has an aftermarket fence that's quite a bit nicer than either of the two new saws IMHO....retail for the fence is in the $350 range new. It's even got some heavier duty wings and a full enclosure, but it lacks modern safety features like a riving knife, and has no warranty. It's likely built better than a new saw, but doesn't necessarily have better design. If the saw looks great and has been refurbed nicely, it could be the better buy, but it's a tough call without seeing it and without knowing what motor's on it, and without knowing the condition of the bearings, belt, under pinnings, etc. These are well regarded old saws partly due to the full enclosure. I think they were made between 1954 and 1966...the early models were made by King Seeley (103.#####), later models by Emerson (113.#####)....you might check out OWWM.org for more info. I've seen some that were beautifully restored. I think it's worth a good look, but $400 isn't exactly a screaming green light buy it price unless it's really nice (IMO). 

more discussions about that saw.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow! I had no idea it would be that old. Shows you what I know.

This gentlemen said he'd take $515 for this saw. It's missing the blade guard which I'm sure I can pick up from Sears. It has some accessories and is only about 1-1/2 hours away so it's not too unreasonable.

http://wheeling.craigslist.org/tls/2756836438.html

If the extras don't make this a good buy I'm thinking that I'll end up with the new Ridgid.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

tombstone said:


> Wow! I had no idea it would be that old. Shows you what I know.
> 
> This gentlemen said he'd take $515 for this saw. It's missing the blade guard which I'm sure I can pick up from Sears. It has some accessories and is only about 1-1/2 hours away so it's not too unreasonable.
> 
> ...


The taper jig isn't worth much, but the mobile base and Freud dado set are worth a solid $100 if in good shape, and are items you can use. Decent deal on a nice saw IMO...you gain the solid cast wings and cabinet mounted trunnions with this one that the R4512 and 21833 don't offer. Give it a good going over. I'm curious about what others think of this package deal?


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## jjrbus (Dec 6, 2009)

Blade guard? I would check the price on it, could be a deal breaker:thumbdown:. 
I need one small part for my Rigid TS3660, with shipping it is $25!


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## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

The 22114 is NOT worth $550. The seller is basing his sell on what he paid not what it is worth used. I bought a 22114 for $280, it was missing some parts but those parts had nothing to do with every day use. But I got a great deal, you might not be as lucky. The 22114 is a very fine TS, better than some other hybrids, the fence is the weak spot on that saw, while it is possible to live with, but if you really start using the saw daily it will become a nuisance. The fence on my 22114 just was not reliable for repeat parallel to the saw blade, if I moved the fence it may come back in parallel it might not, thus I had to always measure. You can develop some quick check methods to check,but when you know that with a Biesemeyer fence properly setup and calibrated you just keep on working because it is accurately parallel. So I when I found a 22124 with a Pro Biesemeyer fence, I bought it.

Ok so you know that the 22114 is good but needs a fence upgrade, the delta T2 is highly recommended low cost Biesemeyer knock off and if you shop hard can find it for around $180 or less, wait until there is a sale. Thus it is important to get a good deal on the 22114 to leave room for a future upgrade T2. I gave my 22114 to my son, and he will be ordering the T2 as soon as we can find a sale.

What about that Grizzly Dec 31 - Grizzly Table Saw - $675 - (Codorus Township)? If you have an electric dryer in your garage you already have a 208/220 outlet get a 208/220 ext cord and your good to go. I'm not saying the $675 price is the right price, it is an 8 yr old saw, and I am not sure what it sold for new, but it is real cabinet saw with a 3hp motor. If the owner is just a hobby guy then that saw most likely will not have been used even a 1/4 of what a pro shop would use it.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

*Will this saw do me any good?*

I'm on a CL roll and found this http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/2796590648.html its a 315.228490. I'm going to look at it tomorrow morning and wanted to be armed with the right info.

The price is right (or so its seems) but I was wondering what upgrades I should plan on making? I know the blade will go pretty quickly, but is the fence a suitable fence or will it need replaced as well?

Is the saw worth the asking price or do you think I'm still better off with the new Ridgid?

Thanks so much guys!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not bad*

Decent saw, and fence, cast iron extensions and the price is OK. Offer $150.00 and see...  bill


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

So if there was no wiggle room and it doesn't look beat ... its a decent deal? It has anti-kickback and a riving knife according to the paperwork I found so that's good at least.

Would I gain that much saw going with a new Ridgid? I want to get good tools but don't want to add dramatically to the cabinent expense. The wife is onboard for either, but I still need a planer so Im trying to watch the bottom line.

I picked up a Bosch router cabinet with a milwaukee router for $125 so that certainly helped things out. If I can do ok on the saw then the total tool expenses will be under $700.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

It was made between 1997 and 2004....could have been in a warehouse or on a shelf 'til 2005 or 2006. Looks like a pretty solid deal to me, and looks to be in decent shape from what I can tell in the pic. I wouldn't sweat giving $175 for it...it'd be nice to get it for $150, but I wouldn't let it go over $25. There might be a stock splitter for it, but it won't have a true riving knife unless he manufactured one for it. The fence is decent (likely a slight step up from the R4512's)...keep it and see how it goes. Definitely get a decent blade, align it, wax it up, get a good miter gauge eventually. 

A new Ridgid R4512 is pretty much in the same class, but the R4512 has the motor inside vs hanging off the back, warranty/return privileges, that "new car smell", plus it does have a true riving knife. The R4512 has stamped steel wings vs grated cast iron on the Cman. Similar fences, similar power, similar duty ratings, similar weight, similar materials of construction, even similar trunnion systems (table mounted with a one piece cast blade shroud). What are those differences worth to you?


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

He said it's six years old. I downloaded the manual which referenced the riving knife.

I would love a new saw, but only 'cause it would be new, although at this point saving some cash takes presedence especially if the deal is a good one.


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## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

tombstone, you are the smart guy buying "used". Not only do you save money, but you will have a lot of pride and satisfaction either restoring a used TS or just in the knowledge you got a fully functioning and performing TS without paying through the nose for a new one.

I bought a used item two days ago (will post about it in another thread), the guy I bought it from was hobby woodworker who started around retirement age. His told me his son got him started when his son brought him a old rusty tablesaw, that he basically got for free. The retiree completely broke down that TS and restored it, sold it for close to $200, and would buy/restore/sell 3 more TS before he ended up with his almost new Jet TS. He had a 1hp Craftsman 17" full size drill press, it looked used but not beat up. He got that DP for $25, he could easily sell it for $300, the DP looked and worked that good. He had two lathes he gave nothing for and both worked fine after he restored them. For a compressor he had a 20gal 2.5hp two cylinder head compressor, he gave $25 for that, restored it, it is tough to find an real good deal on a two cylinder head compressor. 

That guy was an inspiration to me, buying used didn't stop him from turning out very nice furniture pieces.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

tombstone said:


> He said it's six years old. I downloaded the manual which referenced the riving knife.
> 
> I would love a new saw, but only 'cause it would be new, although at this point saving some cash takes presedence especially if the deal is a good one.


It more likely referenced a traditional "splitter", not a riving knife... they essentially do the same job. A riving knife travels up and down and tilts with the blade....a splitter can tilt with the blade or be fixed in place, but does not travel up and down with the blade.


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## tombstone (Jan 2, 2012)

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/2796590648.html

OK. Stupid question time. Why does the front rail extend further past the saw than the rear rail?

Also, if making kitchen cabinets is my primary project, what is a suitable amount of ripping capacity?


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## jjrbus (Dec 6, 2009)

Glad you started this thread, lot's of good info.

The difference in front and rear rail length was a "wellll duuuh" moment for me. The front of the fence, the T, is wider than the rear of the fence, so the rear rail does not have to be as long:laughing: JIm 0311


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## TxWoodsy1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Good experience with Ridgid*

A few years back I looked into the Ridgid too, and am very happy with the purchase. I've used a number of different saws ranging from high end industrial equipment (Holz, Altendorf) to home-owner crap (Craftsmen, Ohio Forge, etc) and the Ridgid definitely performs more toward the higher end of the spectrum. You won't need to upgrade the fence on this one. My results are pretty much the same as what this guy has to say about it. I do the hobby sawmill thing, and have gone through some thick oak and pecan with the Ridgid and felt like it performed well, even with a less than optimal blade.

http://benchmark.20m.com/reviews/RidgidTS3650/RidgidTS3650Review.html




tombstone said:


> Good Morning!
> 
> I am looking to get your thoughts on a couple useds saws to be used when I build my kitchen cabinets over the winter. I have a sears portable table saw that I'm looking to upgrade. Price is a concern but I don't want a total piece of junk.
> 
> ...


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## TxWoodsy1 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Minimal outlay*

If you really want to get out cheap, just add a piece of aluminum bar stock for a straight edge and a couple C-clamps to your router, and that's really all you need to cut out your cabinet parts. 




tombstone said:


> So if there was no wiggle room and it doesn't look beat ... its a decent deal? It has anti-kickback and a riving knife according to the paperwork I found so that's good at least.
> 
> Would I gain that much saw going with a new Ridgid? I want to get good tools but don't want to add dramatically to the cabinent expense. The wife is onboard for either, but I still need a planer so Im trying to watch the bottom line.
> 
> I picked up a Bosch router cabinet with a milwaukee router for $125 so that certainly helped things out. If I can do ok on the saw then the total tool expenses will be under $700.


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