# stickers



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Is it best to use hardwood to make stickers for stacking fresh cut wood? A guy told me using pine can leave streaks. I did my first batch in my kiln with stickers made from old 2X4 etc. whatever I had laying around, and I didn't have any streaks. That batch was already half dry.
Chris


----------



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Here is some discussion about it http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4935 . I have used clear kiln dried pine like you mentioned and did not have problems. Part of it is species you are stickering. Some are just more prone to sticker stain (maple for sure). One wood I would avoid like was mentioned in that thread I linked is red oak for stickers, did not work well for me :thumbdown:. I am using cottonwood/soft maple/ash and some pine right now (because they are all cheap and I use a BUNCH of stickers) without problems.


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I don't know if you have ERC up there but they have worked well for me. I still have not used cottonwood for stickers but have been cutting it lately. I love the wood, and just based on having cut it more frequently and become more familiar with it, I think I would prefer cottonwood over ERC for stickers. Cottonwood has less knots, and the biggest downfall for ERC as stickers is that a fairly high percentage of them - maybe 10% or more - will bend and jag all over the place during their first kiln experience, and it happens at the knots. Often they only bend along one axis and can still be used on one of their two flat sides, but I bet cottonwood would not have as high a percentage of loss. 

How has that worked for you Daren on the number of stickers that move, anything close to 10% roughly?


----------



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> How has that worked for you Daren on the number of stickers that move, anything close to 10% roughly?


Not even close to 10%. I guess I have not put a number on it, but I can just say very few. I air dry the stickers first and do weed out anything that moves .I cut them 6'-10' long off the log, let that dry then cut to length what stayed straight/flat for the size pile I am making as I mill. I have a chopsaw set up in the mill shed that is the "sticker chopper".


----------



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

That's interesting stuff. I can get 2X4, 6, 8,&10 cut offs from the scrap cart at HD for $0.50 a board. Some of them are twisted, that's why they are there. But there is usually plenty of strait stuff I can use to cut up. It's good to know I can keep using that.


----------



## Oscar (Jun 7, 2008)

*Cottonwood*

TT:
What do you usually do with your Cottonwood, do you make particular things with it?? I ask because it is considered a real pain in the butt around here, as for finding uses for it. I'm always interested in finding ways to use wood in my everyday life and I frequently run accross th oportunity to get the stuff.


----------



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Is this one big block, or boards stacked? They look 2"X2" in this picture, but 1"X1" in the pile. What's up with that?


----------



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

bigredc said:


> Is this one big block, or boards stacked? They look 2"X2" in this picture, but 1"X1" in the pile. What's up with that?


That was an 18"x18" (?) square 10' long I just ripped with the mill, flipped and ripped again. The cuts are 1" thick. I could only make 6-8 cuts before the blade started binding when I pulled the saw back. I used a chainsaw to cut off the "stickers" and kept flipping the cant. The block of solid wood on the ends was left to keep the thing level I set a stop (vice grip) on the track to stop my cuts. 
Cut 1" one way, flip 1/4 and cut 1" stickers. I know some guys cut all the way through, flip and go again but on my manual mill I don't have the side clamping to keep that pile together so I I have to leave the end solid.


----------



## dirtclod (May 7, 2008)

I've never seen that method for making stickers. My experience with backing a blade out is that it is a tedious and tricky operation that is reserved for those times when a blade fails and has to be replaced mid-cut. It usually involves a blade that starts rising or dipping, or that all the sudden just goes dull and gives up, or that just hit a foreign object. It's then time to wedge the cut open so the blade won't pack the sawdust as it's pulled back.

The mill I use has bunk stops. They are welded on each bunk and stick up ~3/4". They line up with the posts on the off side. I cut the entire cant into 1" boards then flip the stack 1/4 turn and dog it low against the mill stops. If the boards are wider than ~8", I will place a 4x4 against the mill stops, then place the 1Xs against it, then dog it all down. At ~4-3/8" I removed the 4x4 and redog against the stops. The only problems I have with the mill stops is that they limit the bottom board thickness to ~1" and over, and sometimes they will gouge a cant when it's being turned. 

I hate making stickers.


----------



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

dirtclod said:


> I hate making stickers.


I don't know anyone who doesn't hate it.

Backing the blade out is not that hard on a straight cut. But like I said I can only go 6-8 before the weight of the wood starts to bind the blade (even with a wedge).


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> TT:
> What do you usually do with your Cottonwood


I haven't cut near as much as some other species yet but I have some stickered for indoor wall treatments, and I have a stack of 2 x 4s and 2 x 6s stickered for framing. It's a very pretty wood for a wall paneling choice, at least to our tatse for the one room we have it planned for. 

My dad got me on using for framing. He said as long as you keep it dry it's his favortite wood to frame with once it's dry because it's plenty strong and very light compared to pine. Says it won't ever rot on you as long as you keep it dry. Him and his brothers built alot of barns with it when he was a yewt, and he has taken me to a couple of them that are still standing. 

I think you can use cottonwood for just about anything you want provided you don't ask it to do something it isn't designed for. For exampe you wouldn't want to use it for bridge timbers, outdoor siding, or a butcher block. :stuart:


----------



## Oscar (Jun 7, 2008)

*Why so narrow?*

:stupidoes anyone know why they recomend a 3/4-1" wide sticker vs. 2" or more?? I'm trying to wrap my head around why having such narrow support is better than a wider style! I grew up seeeing various styles and methods around the woodlot but i've always wondered it?? Sorry if it's seems to be a dumb question, Im too old and thick headed to be embaressed if it is


----------



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Wide stickers would cause problems in a few ways. The wood does not dry as fast where the sticker is in contact with it (makes sense, air can't get to it) This can cause sticker stain/mold. Since the stickers are stacked vertically aligned and would be in contact with both sides of the board in theory a board could dry between the stickers and still be wetter at the stickers causing more internal stress. Support is not really an issue in some species, they just dry flat. Other species, sweet gum and persimmon come to mind, are very prone to movement a wider sticker is not going to tame it just more weight. 2" stickers are 2X the wood "wasted" making them. Some companies sell fluted stickers that allow more air flow ever at the sticker itself, uneven drying down the length of the board is not good and the stickers are the culprit most times.

That is all I could think of off the top of my head. But mainly I see a wide sticker just ruining wood by uneven drying, stain and mold.


----------



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

As a total novice, when I was making mine, I didn't want them to thick for the simple fact that it takes up more space, and uses up more wood.


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

These are really old pictures like 3 years or more, but this is how i still do it. I knock the slabs off then cut through the cant 3/4 or 4/4 whatever thickness I want. Then flip it upright and with the chainsaw I cut the various lengths of stickers i need. I stop short of going all the way through on my crosscut, leaving enough to support the log, or in the case of smaller logs I throw a board on the bunks to prevent any sagging of the cant and that allows you to crosscut deeper than what is shown.

You don't want to crosscut all the way through of course, you don't have enough log dogs to hold each section together. :no:

Then just run your saw through and through and presto - stickers. This is the fastest and most accurate way i have found. The few left at the bottom are easily crosscut once you are done. The big time-saver here is in the crosscutting. You can crosscut the pre-sliced cant in seconds becompared to fumbling with them after making them. Your blade will never bind either because you are removing the stickers as you go. Or the wife is..... :shifty:


----------



## freedhardwoods (Sep 7, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> :stupidoes anyone know why they recomend a 3/4-1" wide sticker vs. 2" or more?? I'm trying to wrap my head around why having such narrow support is better than a wider style! I grew up seeing various styles and methods around the woodlot but i've always wondered it?? Sorry if it's seems to be a dumb question, Im too old and thick headed to be embarrassed if it is


I agree with eveything Daren said in response to your question. I had knives made for my moulder to make the fluted sticks he mentioned. With the fluted stickers there is extremely little contact with the lumber being dried.

I have stickers made of a very wide variety of species; from poplar to ipe. I haven't noticed one species causing any more problems than another, though I won't say it doesn't happen.

Here is a diagram of what my shop made stickers look like.


----------



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I feel stupid but I need to ask. What is ipe?


----------



## freedhardwoods (Sep 7, 2008)

Sorry for the slow reply. Ipe is also called ironwood, and is from South America. As a comparison, white oak is 1360 on the Janka hardness scale. Ipe is 3680. I didn't make the ipe stickers that I have. I use 4' stickers. I found a large commercial mill that was throwing away broken 8' fluted stickers and got them for free. I cut the good ones to 4'. Many of them were ipe.


----------



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Is it that the stuff they used to make bearings out of, for ships? It so dense it doesn't float?


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Ipe might have been used for those kinds of purposes i don't know , but I think Lignum Vitae is the wood you are thinking of. It is the hardest and most dense wood known I believe. And it has a specific gravity well over 1.0 so it will sink like a rock. I don't know what the SG of Ipe is but it is up there too, just don't know if it's over 1.0.


----------



## freedhardwoods (Sep 7, 2008)

Here is a little more info about both. According to these websites lignum vitae, not ipe, is called ironwood. I was looking at another site earlier that said it the other way.

Lignum Vitae - http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/lignumvitae.php
Ipe - http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/ipe.php


----------



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

David, Ironwood is a slang term used to describe a regions hardest specie. There really is no single specie recognized by any legitimate scientific or academic reference as the offical "ironwood" of the entire world, regardless that you can find a website here and there which erroneously credits some species as "the" Ironwood. For sure don't quote Wikipedia as any final word on anything since virtually all the articles contain errors of some kind. 

Woodfinder is a cool site but also written by a person or persons who do not cite their references (because they most likely just copied info from whatever cam up first when they Googled for info). At least Wikipedia contributors are asked to do that. 

When you research a specie you want to go to University sites especially ones that have cite their sources. Use books and references written by authors acknowledged as trustworthy sources. Bruce Hoadley is one example of an author who is known to include only factual, well-researched information in his books. No one is perfect but most commercial websites do not parse their info very well and that's why you'll see the kind of conflicting info you mentioned.


----------



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Well I used scrap 2X4s and 2X6s cut up for stickers. My first load in the kiln came out fine. It wasn't very wet to start. This second load I got a lot of staining. and some of the stickers got all twisted.


----------

