# Using an oil based pre-conditioner with water based stain



## raff98 (Nov 10, 2011)

I have hard maple cabinets, replacing with new doors and staining, trying to get a dark, deep cherry/mahagony look. I have had a heck of a time getting even staining on hard maple. Per the company I had manufacture the doors, they said the use a pre-conditioner, followed by gel stain. The regular liquid stain turned all the ends black, very uneven finish, even with hand sand and pre-conditioner. We had started refinishing with the minwax oil based pre-conditioner, and minwax gel stain. Better, but still not close to even stain absorbtion. The doors are raised frame arch, and the rails, stiles and top of panel would be close, but the inside taper from the raised panel was still different, much lighter, and second coats looked basically like we were painting it on. So, I thought since the oil had been going deeper, I would stain rails, stiles and center of raised panel with gel, inside taper stain with liquid. I went to many stores, they did not have the exact color in liquid stain as gel (gel was Mahagony) I stumpled across this tube of stain that looked exactly like what we wanted. (minwax Express Color wiping stain and finish. Prepped the doors as before, hand sand, prep with minwax oil based pre-conditioner, then the express color wiping stain, two coats - turned out GREAT, exactly what color we wanted, did a coat of poly, nece even finish, great deep color we wanted, multiple doors were uniform. Then I noticed that the "Express Wiping Stain" was water based, I had put water based stain over the oil based pre-conditioner. Now, I know not to mix oil based prep with water based stain - but these were perfect and uniform. Now I know every expert will say not to do it - but my question is this - since it was a pre-conditioner, the stain is going evenly in the wood, will something start to change or react weeks or months from now. Water based pre-conditioner does not give us the same look. Has anyone ever done this, and what could go wrong? (wife is in love with color):sweatdrop:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I haven't done that, but if you like the results, go with it. If whatever applications you add, do it to a dry surface. IOW, make sure that your conditioner is dry before adding the stain. Whether it will react, I really don't know, but you will get some indication after you add the stain and it drys, or the same would apply to the topcoat.













 







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## RefinedHack (Mar 4, 2021)

cabinetman said:


> I haven't done that, but if you like the results, go with it. If whatever applications you add, do it to a dry surface. IOW, make sure that your conditioner is dry before adding the stain. Whether it will react, I really don't know, but you will get some indication after you add the stain and it drys, or the same would apply to the topcoat.
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I have used water-based stain over oil based pre-stain with no problems. Always wipe the oil pre-stain down so none lays on the surface, and, as Cabinetman says, make sure the surface has completely dried. - 2 hrs in 65 deg should do it. And a light sand helps break the pores open some.
What I don't like about water-based pre-stain is how much it raises the grain of my oak. And it can take longer to dry.. at least it did for me.
Once dry, water-based stain should be compatible with oil-based stains. I do not see why not, but I have not tried. 
As a former full time painter we used to use oil-based Kilz primer to seal out smoke odors, and get by with one heavy coat of white eggshel latex -and be done quick. Now they out primer and paint together...they are two processes.Never liked the stuff - especially in a rattle can...always plugs up before the can is empty, and often sputters. But that's for a different forum...


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