# Grandfather Clock



## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

Hello and welcome to this thread,

I am Currently designing a Grandfather clock based after a Orleans Grandfather clock. This project is my school graduation exam, so its a big deal for me. 
Never having designed or seen a real grandfather clock ever I came across a lot of problems. My current problem is that I have no idea how a grandfather clock is constructed. I know that it is made up of Styles and battens but thats it. What I am trying to figure out is how I'm supposed to connect the frames together. For the side connection I chose to use a miter joint. But for the top and bottom I wouldn't know what to do. 
In the attatched files you can find a PDF with photo's.


The Clock is made up of three main parts. The Crown, The mid section and the bottom section. What I am trying to achieve is the possibility to sepparate the mid and bottom section for easy moving of the clock. 

In short, I am having problems with connecting parts and making this into a well constructed thing.

If you have any questions just ask.


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## Echo415 (Apr 3, 2018)

MB-Carpentry said:


> I am Currently designing a Grandfather clock based after a Orleans Grandfather clock. This project is my school graduation exam, so its a big deal for me.
> Never having designed or seen a real grandfather clock ever I came across a lot of problems.


I just have to ask...why would you pick such a project for a graduation exam when you have no reference or experience to follow?

As for connecting top and bottom, I'd use something like this: http://www.lamello.com/product/lamello-system-verbinder/clamex-s/


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

agreed - this is a very ambitious project.
to help us help you , please tell us where you are from.
how old you are and what kind of class you are graduating from.
do you have the option to choose a less complex project ??

you mentioned that you have to design the clock - not build it.
is that correct ?? - - you are only going to design and draw it ?
if so, it will be almost impossible to accurately draw it without ever having
seen the example in person.
the most common feedback you will receive here is to go somewhere that
has a clock so you can see it and maybe take photos and measurements of it.
without that, you are a small ship in a very large ocean with no motor.
best of luck in your project.

.

.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Did you pick this project or was it the instructor who picked? What kind of school are you attending? What woodworking experience do you have?
What tools do you have with which to work? How long do you have to complete this project?


George


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Don't sell him short on the project, this was my high school project my senior year. When I did this clock I didn't have any plans or really any knowledge of how to go about building a clock case. I kind of had to invent it as I went. 

In order to make a clock you pretty much have to start with the movement. Do you have that? Every clock movement is different and you have to build the clock case around it so you need that first for the dimensions and radiuses of the parts. 

The drawings you have on the link I think go too high up. Is it your intention to be able to see the movement itself? Usually you have enough clock case at the top to hide that.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

If it was me I would do a search and take a look at existing plans such as these:

http://www.shopsmithhandson.com/archives/sept_oct_00/index.htm

That will give you an idea of the basic design and what is involved in construction, such as a door in the front of the clock, which your drawing does not seem to include.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

have built my share of clocks, incl grandfather. and now repair mechanical movements. i agree with steve - you absolutely need the movement in hand so you can account for the movement mounting, as well as the pendulum swing length and width. the weights (if you go with that design) generally hang directly below the movement. but again you have to account for that in your design. once you have that dimensional data, the carcass is basically a box that you can design/build/adorn as you wish. i have never had to take a grandfather clock apart to move it or work on it - so knock down capability is not critical unless it is for your class.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

MB-Carpentry said:


> Hello and welcome to this thread,
> 
> I am Currently designing a Grandfather clock based after a Orleans Grandfather clock. This project is my school graduation exam, so its a big deal for me.
> Never having designed or seen a real grandfather clock ever I came across a lot of problems. My current problem is that I have no idea how a grandfather clock is constructed. I know that it is made up of Styles and battens but thats it. What I am trying to figure out is how I'm supposed to connect the frames together. For the side connection I chose to use a miter joint. But for the top and bottom I wouldn't know what to do.
> ...



Lengthen the waist portion of your drawing so the waist sides and front insert into the base section, and make a ledge that is attached to the inside base sides. The waist of the cabinet sits on the ledge and then screws inserted through the waist sides into the base sides.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What I was thinking was to separate the area of the movement from the waste of the clock case. Sometimes on the side this is done with a fretwork panel with cloth behind it so the sound of the movement can easily be heard.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I have never built a grandfather clock, but I have experience with various antique clocks. @MB-Carpentry is getting good advice above. 

I do have experience with owning various antique clocks, including some grandfather clocks. I like the idea that the grandfather clock is designed to break down into multiple pieces for moving. They are a pain to move, and I worry about the mechanisms when I have to move one.

My suggestion would be to think about the physical layout of the clock mechanism. Many mechanical clocks have very delicate mechanisms below the clock face itself. I am thinking about the parts where the pendulum hangs and swings, plus the weight cables or chains. Here are some features I would want in a separable grandfather clock:

* Design the separation so that the top part of the mechanism is protected when the top is removed for transportation. I would consider lowering the separation point so that it forms a box that supports the clock mechanism while protecting the pendulum "hang point".
* The top box should also provide a way to organize the chains or cables so that they don't tangle.
* Design storage holes in the base to hold the weights securely for transport. I might think about a block with large forstener-drilled holes, with some type of wing nut on a cap to hold them in place. 
* Design storage in the base for transporting the pendulum, too. 

Yeah, transportation doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that the suggested transportation conveniences could pay off. Those clocks need periodic cleaning and repair, and they last a long time.


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## Onefreetexan (May 3, 2018)

I will disagree with Tool agnostic, just a little bit here.... yes, transportation should be kept in mind,,, however,,, it should not be the ‘primary’ thought in designing the clock,, Over the years I have made over 100 grandfather clocks, some from scratch and some from kits..... I also learned recently that people who have bought a grandfather clock, actually pay a ‘clockmaster’ to come in once or twice a year to adjust their clock.......and they are very proud to announce this .
I built a huge Mediterranean desk once,,, a modified roll top type..... I had room for it and it was a monster,,,,,however, it would break down easily into components of less that 100 pounds each,,,When it came to sell most people would go “oh, it’s too big’ before I could even explain
The guy that bought loved that it looked huge and massive but broke down easy,,, paid $200 more than I was asking.

The point is,,,, yes you want to be able to transport it, but 99.9% of the time you want to look at it, admire it, enjoy it’s beauty and oh, too, tell the time.


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

This project is just a bit of a challenge. I do have woodworking experience, I have been doing this for two and a half years. 
Thank you for the clamex idea!


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

John Smith_inFL said:


> agreed - this is a very ambitious project.
> to help us help you , please tell us where you are from.
> how old you are and what kind of class you are graduating from.
> do you have the option to choose a less complex project ??
> ...


I'm 18 and live in the Netherlands. I have nearly three years of woodworking experience. I do have to build it, thats not the hard part. Designing it is.
For your exam there is a certian 'level' of complexity you have to reach. This 'level' varies from student to student. The teachers keep watch of what we design and dont let us continue if it is too hard or ambitious.

I will try and find someone that has a grandfather clock so I can inspect it, Thanks for the reply!


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

GeorgeC said:


> Did you pick this project or was it the instructor who picked? What kind of school are you attending? What woodworking experience do you have?
> What tools do you have with which to work? How long do you have to complete this project?
> 
> 
> George


I chose to do this myself. Teachers watch all the students and tell us when it is to complex or hard. There is a certain 'level' of complexity you have to reach for the design to pass. This 'level' varies from student to student. For example a student in my class got a GO to make a very simple desk. 
On the machining side I am good. Our school owns a lot of very good and professional tools and machines.
For this project I have 5 months

Thanks for the reply!


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

Steve Neul said:


> Don't sell him short on the project, this was my high school project my senior year. When I did this clock I didn't have any plans or really any knowledge of how to go about building a clock case. I kind of had to invent it as I went.
> 
> In order to make a clock you pretty much have to start with the movement. Do you have that? Every clock movement is different and you have to build the clock case around it so you need that first for the dimensions and radiuses of the parts.
> 
> The drawings you have on the link I think go too high up. Is it your intention to be able to see the movement itself? Usually you have enough clock case at the top to hide that.


I did look up some movements but havent taken the swing into account. I will look up a movement and buy it to continue the design.
It is indeed the intention to see the movement.

Thanks for the reply!


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

FrankC said:


> If it was me I would do a search and take a look at existing plans such as these:
> 
> http://www.shopsmithhandson.com/archives/sept_oct_00/index.htm
> 
> That will give you an idea of the basic design and what is involved in construction, such as a door in the front of the clock, which your drawing does not seem to include.


Thanks for the plans! 
The entire front window is the door on the clock. Underneath that is a drawer.


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

Steve Neul said:


> Don't sell him short on the project, this was my high school project my senior year. When I did this clock I didn't have any plans or really any knowledge of how to go about building a clock case. I kind of had to invent it as I went.
> 
> In order to make a clock you pretty much have to start with the movement. Do you have that? Every clock movement is different and you have to build the clock case around it so you need that first for the dimensions and radiuses of the parts.
> 
> The drawings you have on the link I think go too high up. Is it your intention to be able to see the movement itself? Usually you have enough clock case at the top to hide that.


Hi again,

I haven't bought a movement yet. I do have an Idea which one I want. It's the hermle and shon, if I spell that correct, with a pendulum length of 114 cm. 

Just copy this into Google to see more details on the movement "Hermle uurwerk 461-053"

I don't want to buy a movement yet. I'm just not ready/confident enough yet. But I do need the pendulum swing width for the casing.

The pending has a scripted length of 114 CM. But from its axle to its center of mass it's a 100 CM. It has a "tickrate" of 60,000

Could you help me determine the width of the pendulum? Or suggest something?

Also if anyone has ideas / suggestions about the movement just tell me!

Thanks a lot everyone!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*gimme a break!*



MB-Carpentry said:


> Hi again,
> 
> I haven't bought a movement yet. I do have an Idea which one I want. It's the hermle and shon, if I spell that correct, with a pendulum length of 114 cm.
> 
> ...



How in the world are we supposed to know anything about this movement from Belgium or where ever? You must buy the movement or get specific and detailed dimensions from the seller IF you don't want to purchase it first. It's like designing a car not knowing how big the engine is.... you can't do it. I've built a few car/trucks in may days so I know how it works. :|


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

MB-Carpentry said:


> Hi again,
> 
> I haven't bought a movement yet. I do have an Idea which one I want. It's the hermle and shon, if I spell that correct, with a pendulum length of 114 cm.
> 
> ...


The swing of the pendulum will be less than the width of the face of the clock so that is one of the least worries in building a clock case. The hard part is fitting the movement and the face where it fits the case nice. 

If it were me I wouldn't cut the first piece of wood without having the movement or a set of clock plans for that specific movement. There is a lot more to take into consideration that the width of the case.


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

*MB-Carpentry*



Steve Neul said:


> The swing of the pendulum will be less than the width of the face of the clock so that is one of the least worries in building a clock case. The hard part is fitting the movement and the face where it fits the case nice.
> 
> If it were me I wouldn't cut the first piece of wood without having the movement or a set of clock plans for that specific movement. There is a lot more to take into consideration that the width of the case.


I'm looking for parts for a clock movement. This is a hard thing here in the Netherlands since there aren't many people that sell these parts. Also I dont know everything that I would need. Could you help me with making a list of all the parts I need?

What I've got so far:

The Movement
A fitting Pendulum
Fitting wheights
Chime Rods

Could you tell me wich parts are missing? Or maybe redirect me to a website where all of this is fully explained.

Thanks again, Martijn


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## MB-Carpentry (Feb 8, 2019)

Steve Neul said:


> The swing of the pendulum will be less than the width of the face of the clock so that is one of the least worries in building a clock case. The hard part is fitting the movement and the face where it fits the case nice.
> 
> If it were me I wouldn't cut the first piece of wood without having the movement or a set of clock plans for that specific movement. There is a lot more to take into consideration that the width of the case.


Also here is the Clock movement I'm considering buying. This time I have an english site so its easier for you guys

https://www.clockworks.com/clock-movement/hermle-clock-movement-451.html

Edit: Its the 451 - 050


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

so you will have these things to account for:
- pendulum length, swing left-right, and position in the case front to back
- weight location from to back, and chain length
- chime bars location and mounting
- location of the movement with respect to the face up/down/left right/front/back
- typical movement mounting is done by supporting the front and back plates (hollow in the middle for chains) and "j" bolts catching the 2 corner bolts


would help to get to a shop and see some in action. check butterworth clocks - great guy to work with and good prices no affiliation.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

MB-Carpentry said:


> I'm looking for parts for a clock movement. This is a hard thing here in the Netherlands since there aren't many people that sell these parts. Also I dont know everything that I would need. Could you help me with making a list of all the parts I need?
> 
> What I've got so far:
> 
> ...


I believe the only thing you are missing is the face of the clock and the hands. The weights are probably of different weight. The melody chime on mine is heavier. Anyway if you contact the people you supplied the link they should be able to put together a kit for you so that everything fits the model clock you are buying. That would be the easiest way to insure you get everything you need.


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