# Black walnut tree to offer



## proofer7

We've been considering getting a black walnut tree in the backyard cut down. The walnuts are a nuisance to us ---falling over the backyard, the patio, and partly in the parking area. But we know the cost would be great as it's a big tree (about 70 feet high). I've heard that walnut trees are prized for the wood, and that someone might chop it down for us so that they can have all the wood for free. I've called the mills and they have no interest. I've posted on freecycle.com and Craigs List, and although I have had interest there, I'm insisting that the person have a professional (bonded and insured) tree service take this down since part of the tree hangs over the house, so then that interest falls through. The previous property owner had the 2 main limbs attached by a cable (I guess if one limb goes, the other is sure to follow?), so the cable is attached to the 2 limbs somehow, but it's too far up to see. So here's my question: Any other ideas whom I can contact? We're in Cincinnati, Ohio.


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## TexasTimbers

A tree service that is licensed and bonded is your best bet, as you say. They are going to top it down so when they have nothing left standing but the main trunk, have them fall it intact. If it is solid, does not have tell-tale signs of metal, and is a good sawlog or two or three, you might get a local sawyer to take a chance on it. You might get a few dollars for it. i do not pay for yard trees and usually do not even cut them, but if it is an exceptional log I will. A bandsaw blade or two is not a big deal if the reward potential is high. 

But you should get the $$$ out of your eyes, even though it is a walnut, there is alot of liability there which you have to trade $$$ to someone to take responsibility of the liability if you cannot do it yourself.


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## Daren

proofer7 said:


> I'm insisting that the person have a professional (bonded and insured) tree service take this down since part of the tree hangs over the house, so then that interest falls through.


Yep, what TexasTimbers said and I will add some too. It's a simple equation guys like TT and myself _if_ we have to pay for a log, many times we simple do not we get them free, there is a market value of said logs. On the other end there is a market value for the lumber we produce like you mentioned. Yes walnut can be a valuable lumber...from the right tree. Others can be hollow and full of metal (sounds like yours has potential for that)...those can cost us money to mill in labor and damage to our sawmills if we cannot get enough marketable lumber even on a free log.

Let me back up a second and say I am an urban logger. I have built my business since 2004 on sawing yard trees. I hate to see potentially valuable trees go to waste, and they do all the time. I encourage anyone to try to salvage these tress if they can. On the same token I see logs that would make perfectly good firewood show up and someone thinks they have a goldmine because they saw what sawn/dried/graded hardwood selling for at the store. Their firewood log unfortunately just doesn't have any of that wood in it. People also have to educate themselves or at the very least trust ones opinion that does have the knowledge in these matters (not the guy at the coffee shop who sells shoes for a living...a guy who makes a living sawing logs)

I quoted part of your post for a reason. The simple equation part. Back to me buying logs. I will flip a guy a few bucks for a delivered log/logs, it's only fair he has labor involved. I will turn the same guy around if he has a load of firewood logs, I run a sawmill not make firewood. If what is on the trailer is nice I am not afraid to pay a little if I know I can saw/dry/grade/store/market that log and make some money on it. A tree service that is experienced/insured _has_ to charge X amount to even stay in business, they have alot of liability and let's face it the work is dangerous and hard. This service is more costly than the log is worth, always. I can buy a walnut logs all day long for $100 or less from tree services delivered (or many times just go pick the logs up for free so they don't have to move them)...I cannot afford to pay a tree service $1000 to remove an at best iffy yard tree for the same log. They are selling me their logs for a little icing on the cake after their service is performed.

If you want your tree removed, hire a professional to do it. It is going to cost you plenty. No way (unless you are the luckiest man on the planet) are you going to recoup all that cost selling the logs. But if you tell the tree service to leave the good logs it should cost you less since they have less to "dispose of". Then you can run ads in the same places offering to sell the downed logs. Make sure you get it up off the ground and seal the ends. Be realistic when it comes to what you have there and price it accordingly. There is a page on my site that explains this more if you are interested with a sample price for a walnut log http://nelsonwoodworks.biz/pb/wp_9ed660e8/wp_9ed660e8.html


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## proofer7

Thanks, guys, for your advice. I was just making sure that after calling mills and posting on freebie sites, that I was exhausting all avenues. From reading your 2 posts, it looks like I have, considering all the expert information you've just shared.


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## Daren

One last thing, just because I am going to link this thread the next time (and there is always a next time) this subject is brought up to save typing the same thing over and over.

Having a sawmill I get approached by all kinds. People who love knowing the fact their tree is going to be put to good use and gladly give it to me for one. The other end of that is the calls from the homeowner with, lets say since we are talking walnut, a small fortune (so said the guy who sells shoes in a conversation at the coffee shop) that just went down in their yard.

I get out of the truck and make my offer. Be it to remove the log for free if it is marginal (some I won't even haul off for free) If it is *really* good I will offer a couple bucks, literally, not 100's like they thought just a small roll of $20's...They are outraged :furious:. How could I insult them like that when they know those logs are worth "big bucks" This is when I make my second offer (after sticking my money back in my pocket to stay)

My second offer is always "A small fortune in lumber eh ?, sounds like you need to get into the lumber business. I can help!" I explain I will mill and kiln dry their log for them and they can sell it and make all the money they think I am trying to rip them off for. First the log has to be delivered to my mill "Do you have equipment to do this ?" if they do not I offer to do that for $40 hour, or help them find someone else. I explain I charge $.35 bft to mill and $.35 bft to kiln dry. If I am looking at a couple logs say 24" x 10' and another 22" x 8' my services after the log is delivered would only be about $150. I also charge $20 per ruined band blade due to metal, so think on that when you swore this tree had no metal. After I am done milling and drying the owner has to come pick up and store/market the lumber, simple as that. 

Some may think that makes me sound like a jerk, but I say it in a sincere and friendly way. It is a legitimate offer on my end. I would rather have the easy $150 than more wood to market most times. To this day not a single person has taken my offer (made it dozens of times) wonder why ? Maybe they don't want to invest just a little for such huge gains like the guy at the coffee rambled on about ? Or maybe being in the lumber business like me is just not their cup of tea and they don't have the room to store the lumber or the ability to market it ? Whatever the reason we most often come to a better understanding. But not always, I still drive by a few logs laying in yards that I got calls about 2-3 years ago...amazing a "fortune" like that and no one jumped all over it ? They just lay there and rot.


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## Terry Beeson

Daren said:


> ...Some may think that makes me sound like a jerk...


We would NEVER think that, Daren... :whistling2:

Those are the same people who if you asked them to do their job for "free" would laugh in your face and tell you something like "in your dreams" only more 

I like to barter (cuz I'm a broke cheap-a$$) but I want both parties to get something out of it... Even if it's just to get that tree out of my yard.

Curious... Do any of you mill owners ever do any bartering for trees?


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## bugman1954

Hey Terry, Would you like some sycamore to harvest? Theres a big tree down in Ozark that is free for the taking. I'll help you get hooked up in this millling adventure. Gosh I love wood. It smells so good. Hey, I'm broke too. But I have a big bandsaw.


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## Daren

Terry Beeson said:


> Curious... Do any of you mill owners ever do any bartering for trees?


All the time. I "share cut" meaning I saw for free for my share of the lumber or fair number of logs for myself on a larger scale. I just came in from the sharpening shop where I finished sharpening mower blades for the county road commissioner (his personal mower). He asked for a bill I said "Don't worry about it"...little things like that guarantee free logs from him when they are doing drainage work/storm clean up. I have one couple I restore antiques for the wife "free" in my spare time on barter, the husband brings me hay wagons of killer logs (to the tune of $1000's) in exchange. I swap mill slab firewood for decent sawlogs to firewood cutter. I weld for the city road crew on their equipment and rarely send a bill, I get any tree in this town I want delivered by them...I could go on,(and on) but yes barter is a big part of how I acquire logs :yes:


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## Daren

Terry Beeson said:


> Curious... Do any of you mill owners ever do any bartering for trees?


And I forgot 'till I was cleaning out the camera memory this morning (loaded with pics I don't need anymore) I also "gift" back gift log droppers. I had a farmer dump a couple nice osage orange and walnut he had to clear, he thought of me instead of just push them in the wash. Which would have been _way_ easier considering where they were, already in the wash practically.

He has been to my shop often and comments on my handmade tools/ gadgets (planes and stuff I made and use). I had to make myself another mallet. While I was doing it I just made 2 and gave him one the next time he came around from some of the wood he dropped off. He was tickled pink and said it was going in his den :laughing: (kinda thought he would use it ?)He even dragged the mallet to the coffee shop and was showing other farmers:huh: He came back later in the week and said when it dries up some he has more logs for me .


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## TexasTimbers

Those are sharp Daren!


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## Terry Beeson

Wow... think that would go in MY den as well...

Hey Bugman... I have several walnut logs in my back yard that need to be milled. A couple of nice looking crotches in the bunch, too...


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## ARECHER

Daren said:


> Yep, what TexasTimbers said and I will add some too. It's a simple equation guys like TT and myself _if_ we have to pay for a log, many times we simple do not we get them free, there is a market value of said logs. On the other end there is a market value for the lumber we produce like you mentioned. Yes walnut can be a valuable lumber...from the right tree. Others can be hollow and full of metal (sounds like yours has potential for that)...those can cost us money to mill in labor and damage to our sawmills if we cannot get enough marketable lumber even on a free log.
> 
> Let me back up a second and say I am an urban logger. I have built my business since 2004 on sawing yard trees. I hate to see potentially valuable trees go to waste, and they do all the time. I encourage anyone to try to salvage these tress if they can. On the same token I see logs that would make perfectly good firewood show up and someone thinks they have a goldmine because they saw what sawn/dried/graded hardwood selling for at the store. Their firewood log unfortunately just doesn't have any of that wood in it. People also have to educate themselves or at the very least trust ones opinion that does have the knowledge in these matters (not the guy at the coffee shop who sells shoes for a living...a guy who makes a living sawing logs)
> 
> I quoted part of your post for a reason. The simple equation part. Back to me buying logs. I will flip a guy a few bucks for a delivered log/logs, it's only fair he has labor involved. I will turn the same guy around if he has a load of firewood logs, I run a sawmill not make firewood. If what is on the trailer is nice I am not afraid to pay a little if I know I can saw/dry/grade/store/market that log and make some money on it. A tree service that is experienced/insured _has_ to charge X amount to even stay in business, they have alot of liability and let's face it the work is dangerous and hard. This service is more costly than the log is worth, always. I can buy a walnut logs all day long for $100 or less from tree services delivered (or many times just go pick the logs up for free so they don't have to move them)...I cannot afford to pay a tree service $1000 to remove an at best iffy yard tree for the same log. They are selling me their logs for a little icing on the cake after their service is performed.
> 
> If you want your tree removed, hire a professional to do it. It is going to cost you plenty. No way (unless you are the luckiest man on the planet) are you going to recoup all that cost selling the logs. But if you tell the tree service to leave the good logs it should cost you less since they have less to "dispose of". Then you can run ads in the same places offering to sell the downed logs. Make sure you get it up off the ground and seal the ends. Be realistic when it comes to what you have there and price it accordingly. There is a page on my site that explains this more if you are interested with a sample price for a walnut log http://nelsonwoodworks.biz/pb/wp_9ed660e8/wp_9ed660e8.html


This is straight up good advise. I just went through this process this spring. I decided to go a different route and pick up some equipment to mill the boards myself. This was not necessarily a financially wise decision on my part, at least for these 4 trees worth of logs. I can however see myself using this equipment in the future when other opportunities arise. It also gives me the opportunity to mill species of wood that are locally available as logs but aren't available at the home center as lumber. I also like the idea that I might be able to build a cabin or post and beam structure with the Chainsaw mill and the "RipSaw".

Daren's right, it's going to cost you. I had this 36" diameter walnut removed with 3 other trees (the one the walnut crotch and short cherry pieces are leaning against in the pic) and it was pricey, even though the neighbor split the cost for the two biggest trees as they were on the property line. For me it's pretty cool to have furniture and lumber that I made from trees on my own property, that I milled myself. But then I guess I have an independent streak...

Someone on craigslist in my hometown last week was offering a 16" diameter x 12' walnut log that was nice and straight. They wanted $50.00 for it. I offered to take it for free or for a little less than that mostly because I hate the idea of nice wood being burned. I don't know why but I never heard back. Maybe it's for the best, I haven't cut up all of what I have in my own yard yet...

Best of luck whatever you decide.


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## Daren

That butt log looks like a killer to me :blink:. End seal it an get it to a guy with a bandmill. Yard tree or not that is a *beauty *! Sell/use the lumber and keep your play mills for the little ones.


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## ARECHER

Daren said:


> That butt log looks like a killer to me :blink:. End seal it an get it to a guy with a bandmill. Yard tree or not that is a *beauty *! Sell/use the lumber and keep your play mills for the little ones.


Heh heh, the ends of it were beautiful before I painted them 3 coats of green.

Oh yeah, did I mention that I have an independent streak?:thumbsup:

It'll be a chore, but I think I can do it. I might send you an email if I change my mind. I've milled all of the short pieces and the cherry logs from the cherry tree. I have one short log of cherry yet to mill and its from the very base. It's about 20" dia. x 4' long but is crooked as heck (see pic). I'm thinking I may block it up kind of thick for turning stock. Does that sound reasonable? I would think cutting boards from a piece like that they might end up pretzel shaped...(tension/reaction wood)?

Any thoughts?

Andy


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## Daren

ARECHER said:


> It's about 20" dia. x 4' long but is crooked as heck (see pic).


You could block it up. Or you could do something like this. This picture is TexasTimbers from another discussion. I have some walnut milled that I did not take pictures of and it is on the bottom of a drying pile that looks about the same. Sweeping boards like this with a live edge have alot of potential. They can be joined and make a big table (infill the center with contrasting wood) or used individually. I know the crooked walnut I have milled at least one piece I am going to make a unique sweeping bench.


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## TexasTimbers

ARECHER said:


> . . . . . I can however see myself using this equipment in the future when other opportunities arise. . . .



Ya think? :laughing:

I'm glad to see others do not base their decisions solely on, _ if it makes sense to my pocketbook I'll do it. _ I realize this usually has to be the determining factor but there are times like this when, the short term gain is minimal to nil, but the long term potential is really enhanced by virtue of a better quality of life if nothig else, and that is as the commercial says, "...priceless". 

You invested in equipment that will keep you off that couch, provide a way to salvage valuable resources destined for the burn pile, create something useful and beautiful (that's the goal anyway hehe), and also gives you something you can use as a way to spend time with your spouse (if you are lucky enough to have one interested) kids, grandkids, or some neighborhood teen without a dad who is on the fence as to which path he is going to take. Put him to work and be a role model showing him that sitting around with idle hands is a choice.

Alright I'll get off my soapbox. I'm venting because of something that happened locally recently that I should not get started on. Point I am trying to make, the equipment you invested in is something you will use locally in your community and it has alot more potential for good than you might realize so I congratulate you and encourage you to make the most of it. And who knows, maybe you will even break even with the coin somewhere down the line. :no: :laughing:


Daren sometimes you scare me. I just moved the stack of slabs that future bois d' arc table you posted above is buried in and as I was moving it my wheels were turning again about what I wanted to do with the center . . . fill it in as you mention or something else. Oh well. Way down the priority list for now.


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