# Craftsman 10" Radial Arm Saw



## motor (Aug 17, 2012)

I see this saw listed on Craigslist quite often with prices generally ranging from $50 to $150. I'm intrigued by this saw first of all because it is inexpensive, and secondly I like the idea of being able to make longer board cuts than I can on my miter saw, and quicker cuts than I can on my table saw.

Does anyone own this saw and have any opinions? I'd mainly use it for smaller projects, building boxes, frames, etc.

Thanks!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

These saws have been around for a long time. You have some modele better then others. 

Most people use them for crosscutting because they tend to lose accuracy if you swing the arm and tilt the motor.

They are not very safe for ripping and a 12" sliding miter is probably got more cut capacity. They also are slightly dangerous compared to other saws because the design allows for the saw to walk forward when cutting. Can and does result in lose of thumbs some times. 

With that said I have a new one finally getting set up now. The new ones have a speed control to prevent the walking. As stated mine will be set up for cross cuts and daddo's..


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## motor (Aug 17, 2012)

Thanks for the good information and quick reply Richard. I'd be using the saw mostly for cross cuts and dados also. 
The saws I see are mostly 10" with no speed control, so if anyone has any experience with this type model I'd love the input.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I purchased a 10in Craftsman RAS in 1983. I used this for many projects.

I gave it away last year after I purchased a 12in SCMS which had almost the same cross cut capacity.

I had attempted many operations with the RAS. The design of my model allowed a degree of flexing. As RRBrown stated, if I ever moved by carriage from the 90 deg position, I had to recalibrate.

I ended up not moving the carriage, so my unit became a 90 deg cross cut saw.

There are a lot of used RAS on the market. This contributes to finding a bargain.

Many people are afraid of the RAS due to reports of accidents. Emerson had a lawsuit and as a result I got a free and much improved guard, but for many people the design is too risky for their use.

My issue was accuracy, which is why I replaced my unit with the 12in SCMS.

I purchased a wobble dado for the RAS. I hated the vibration, so this went into the drawer.

I now have a cabinet table saw and a dado set. I tend to use my router table for cutting dadoes. Faster setup.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

The Craftsman RAS (I've had 2) more than any other factor contributed to the demise of the RAS as a common shop tool, IMHO. Sears tried to make it a "do-everything" tool, and cheaply. So, they wound up with a saw that, in many cases, would not hold zero for anything, was never repeatable once the arm was moved, and worse: a lot of the fancy do-dad extra's didn't work as well as advertised. That's not to say there weren't some good ones; those made in the early 70's and older could actually be made into serviceable saws. However, my first one was an early 70's and had all the problems mentioned, so it's a _take your chance_ kind of thing. I eventually gave mine (both of them) up to the recall, and really missed having an RAS. Then I bought a Dewalt, and finally a very good, accurate, repeatable saw (I now have 3, but only one in the shop). My point and my opinion: the RAS can be an extremely useful tool in a shop, for me it replaced the miter saw and does much more. But trying to start using one with a Craftsman might make you curse the day you saw one. So going with an older dewalt (they became crap after B&D tried competing with Sears, so 60's and earlier Dewalts) or a Delta/Rockwell/Red Star turret arm will get you a much more useable saw. They are harder to find, but often sell for about the same price. If you go ahead with a Craftsman, your best chance for success would be to buy one with a solid cast iron base (the piece supporting the column), models after that came with an aluminum clam shell arrangement, and that's when things started getting worse.


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## motor (Aug 17, 2012)

Excellent informations guys! I appreciate you taking the time to help this rookie woodworker out.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I was looking at Dewalt miter saws at Home Depot today. I do not know the difference between these and RAS. I try to keep up with Dewalt but they had three different ones and I decided to search here for advice.

So the Dewalt and Craftsman brand new versions in the stores now are no good?

What brands are good in the $500 or less range?


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## motor (Aug 17, 2012)

A *Radial Arm Saw "RAS"* has a saw that moves along a roller carriage.

While a *miter saw* hinges from a single pivot point.

Then of course there is the* sliding miter saw*, which is similar to the standard miter saw with the exeption that the saw can slide on rails, giving it the abilty make wider cuts.

What you saw (pun intended) in the stores were most likely *standard miter saws* and *sliding miter saws*.

Note: I tried to submit pictures of the different types of saws with this this post but I don't have enough posts yet for me to have that ability. Just run a keyword search in google images any you will see the different types of saws.

As for which saw is the best, I'll let the more experienced woodworkers answer that. I have a DeWalt 12" miter saw that I am happy with.
Kyle


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I've always had a RAS in the shop. I had plans to make one into a radial arm router, so I would pick up another one and kept it in waiting 'til I had the time. I would wind up selling one and then the cycle would start again. Most of them were like *this one*, that was getting prepped to be given away to a friend when this picture was taken.

They are like any other tool, in that they need to be maintained. The difference is that it is the one tool that has many moving parts...more IMO than any other stationary tool. Without the ability to tune them up they can be a constant source of aggravation. But, if well maintained, can be one useful tool. 

I don't agree that the saw can "come at you". The distance between the table and the arm is fixed, and the motor can't climb on top of stock being cut. Very thin materials can allow the saw's movement to feel like that, but with experience the "feel" of the pull controls those movements. Having a good negative hook blade helps with the aggressive feel.









 







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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Fred Hargis said:


> The Craftsman RAS (I've had 2) more than any other factor contributed to the demise of the RAS as a common shop tool, IMHO. Sears tried to make it a "do-everything" tool, and cheaply. So, they wound up with a saw that, in many cases, would not hold zero for anything, was never repeatable once the arm was moved, and worse: a lot of the fancy do-dad extra's didn't work as well as advertised. That's not to say there weren't some good ones; those made in the early 70's and older could actually be made into serviceable saws. However, my first one was an early 70's and had all the problems mentioned, so it's a _take your chance_ kind of thing. I eventually gave mine (both of them) up to the recall, and really missed having an RAS. Then I bought a Dewalt, and finally a very good, accurate, repeatable saw (I now have 3, but only one in the shop). My point and my opinion: the RAS can be an extremely useful tool in a shop, for me it replaced the miter saw and does much more. But trying to start using one with a Craftsman might make you curse the day you saw one. So going with an older dewalt (they became crap after B&D tried competing with Sears, so 60's and earlier Dewalts) or a Delta/Rockwell/Red Star turret arm will get you a much more useable saw. They are harder to find, but often sell for about the same price. If you go ahead with a Craftsman, your best chance for success would be to buy one with a solid cast iron base (the piece supporting the column), models after that came with an aluminum clam shell arrangement, and that's when things started getting worse.


You mention craftsman but it's all saws in my opinion. Sure some craftsman model were better or worse then others but that is everything and every manufacturer.

When I tried to get parts and accessories for my old dewalt RAS they told me lawsuits were what stopped them and others from making the RAS saws anymore. 


As for the speed control it is a good feature but I can't speak for function yet. I had a old craftsman that we hooked a small counter weight on with a pully pulling it back to help prevent some of the walking. It helped but the best way is in the operation. Oh and keep your hands out of the way. :laughing:


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Radial arm router is an interesting idea. The first operation I did with mine was to put a chuck on the other end and use it as a drill press because I didn't have one at the time and needed to make the table (with recessed bolt holes) for the RAS itself. I suppose it could be used with router bits as well though I wouldn't use it as the shaper/moulder they tried to sell it as.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Shop Dad said:


> Radial arm router is an interesting idea.


My intent was to remove the saw motor and install a router.









 







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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

Shop Dad said:


> Radial arm router is an interesting idea. The first operation I did with mine was to put a chuck on the other end and use it as a drill press because I didn't have one at the time and needed to make the table (with recessed bolt holes) for the RAS itself. I suppose it could be used with router bits as well though I wouldn't use it as the shaper/moulder they tried to sell it as.


The Montgomery Wards version under their PowerCraft brand had a 20,000rpm universal motor, and came with collet adapters for 1/4 & 1/2 inch router bits. It also had a 3500rpm spindle with an optional adapter to run half inch shaper cutters.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*like this?*



cabinetman said:


> My intent was to remove the saw motor and install a router.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I've had a number of CM ras's. The older ones are better machines. 
Most Dewalt, and Delta ras's are better than the CM ones, but the CM ones are usable.
They are great for dados.
If you swing the arm to do a miter cut, you just need to lay a square on the table and lock her down.
I currently have a Red Star (Orig. Delta design) and it is far better than the CM.
In one of the CM saws I had, I mounted a router to it, and it worked good. Picture below. That saw and other CM ras's, have a flat bottom motor, with 2 tapped holes, just waiting to bolt a router mount to!
The ras in the picture with the router, is one of the best Cm ones. You can ID it, by the round end of the motor.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> *like this?*


Not at all. As I said, my intent was to remove the motor and install a router...not hang one off on the side.









 







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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Great ideas. The radial arm motion could lend itself to quite a few uses with a router. Wouldn't take much to create a side mount router table that could be inserted when needed.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Yes the ones I saw were miter saws and sliding miter saws. What is better when stepping up from a circ saw? It seems like the miter saw would be better in a home shop.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*something like this then?*



cabinetman said:


> Not at all. As I said, my intent was to remove the motor and install a router...not hang one off on the side.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Here is another idea for a ras.
It's a split collar, that you clamp on the column. 
I keep mine set so it stops the blade, so it's just below the table. it makes it easier to return it to it's normal cutting height.

It's great if you are making deep dados, and want to do them in a few passes. Set the collar, so the blade is at the final dado depth.
Raise the blade to make first cut, then crank it down a few turns and make a second cut. 
Then lower it until it stops at the collar and make the final cut.
It comes in real handy, if you need to make a bunch and want them all the same depth.

The one I have is aluminum, but any hard wood would work. Heck, a hose clamp might work.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Forgot the picture!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> *something like this then?*


That's similar to what I had in mind. I've seen that setup at another forum...not bad at all. The guy that did it was named something like Smallpatch, or something like that. Maybe it was on router forums.









 







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## homebuilder (Sep 20, 2011)

*RA saws are very useful*



rrbrown said:


> These saws have been around for a long time. You have some modele better then others.
> 
> Most people use them for crosscutting because they tend to lose accuracy if you swing the arm and tilt the motor.
> 
> ...


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAfl6N2Yifc


Leather straps? Big EEEEEEK!!!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Eeeeek is right


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

The nice thing about the router mount for a ras, that I posted above, is you can leave it on, and still use the ras. Being mounted on the bottom of the motor, it does reduce ras cut depth, but that deep of a cut is rarely used. @ screws, and the mount comes off.
I had planed on making the mount from a 3/8" plate, but never got around to it.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Pirate said:


> The nice thing about the router mount for a ras, that I posted above, is you can leave it on, and still use the ras. Being mounted on the bottom of the motor, it does reduce ras cut depth, but that deep of a cut is rarely used. @ screws, and the mount comes off.
> I had planed on making the mount from a 3/8" plate, but never got around to it.


Also, with just the motor in a mount, you have a much betterview of what you are routing.

As far as a ras losing accuracy when angled. I found I needed to reset the arm with a square after angling it. Not that big of a deal.
Some people use a 45 degree aux. fence on the ras, for 45 degree cuts.
Long live the ras!


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Pirate said:


> The nice thing about the router mount for a ras, that I posted above, is you can leave it on, and still use the ras. Being mounted on the bottom of the motor, it does reduce ras cut depth, but that deep of a cut is rarely used. @ screws, and the mount comes off.
> I had planed on making the mount from a 3/8" plate, but never got around to it.


Also, with just the motor in a mount, you have a much better view of what you are routing.

As far as a ras losing accuracy when angled. I found I needed to reset the arm with a square after angling it. Not that big of a deal.
Some people use a 45 degree aux. fence on the ras, for 45 degree cuts.
Long live the ras!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

rrbrown said:


> These saws have been around for a long time. You have some modele better then others.


That's a fact.:yes:



rrbrown said:


> Most people use them for crosscutting because they tend to lose accuracy if you swing the arm and tilt the motor.


IMO, no different than changing any other shop machine to that degree, and expect accuracy without rechecking/resetting.



rrbrown said:


> They are not very safe for ripping and a 12" sliding miter is probably got more cut capacity. They also are slightly dangerous compared to other saws because the design allows for the saw to walk forward when cutting. Can and does result in lose of thumbs some times.


This gets bandied around quite a bit. If the arm is intact, and there is no movement to the table, the saw may "feel" like its urging towards the operator. But in reality, it's unlikely that the motor and blade assembly can jump on top of stock being cut, and come charging at the operator.

There's too much restriction of movement between the table and the arm for that event to be a common occurrence. What will minimize that "feel" is installing a negative hook blade, and developing a feel for the controlled effort to pull the saw smoothly through the cut.:yes:









 







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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Marvin McConoughey said:


> I don't know any intrinsic reason to question the saw's safety for ripping


Disregarding this guy's technique, The basic ripping on a RAS entails the same type procedure, and handling. Does this look safe to you?
.













 







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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> This gets bandied around quite a bit. If the arm is intact, and there is no movement to the table, the saw may "feel" like its urging towards the operator. But in reality, it's unlikely that the motor and blade assembly can jump on top of stock being cut, and come charging at the operator.
> 
> There's too much restriction of movement between the table and the arm for that event to be a common occurrence. What will minimize that "feel" is installing a negative hook blade, and developing a feel for the controlled effort to pull the saw smoothly through the cut.:yes:


+1 This has been my experience. The only time my RAS jumped was when I first got it, had no experience, and did not have a negative hook angle to my blade. I put the correct blade on and learned how to control the cut. I still practice extreme caution by staying out of the line of the blade, keeping my hands well away and securing my workpiece whenever possible. It's one of my go-to tools. :thumbsup:


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> That's a fact.:yes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, I don't agree with this. I will say that it probably wont if you have the correct blade installed. Furniture factory I worked at, the radial arm would make it's own cut, all you needed to do was get it started. I'm sure it had a blade with an agressive hook though as they interchanged the blades between the table saws and the radial arms.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

jschaben said:


> Sorry, I don't agree with this. I will say that it probably wont if you have the correct blade installed. Furniture factory I worked at, the radial arm would make it's own cut, all you needed to do was get it started. I'm sure it had a blade with an agressive hook though as they interchanged the blades between the table saws and the radial arms.


You don't have to agree, but you gave an explanation that agrees.:yes:









 







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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I think a ras with 3+ "real" hp, would not try to climb cut. Sort of like a car, with a lot of hp. It will spin the tires. Without a lot of hp, it will grab the track, and drive forward.


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## RetiredLE (Jan 20, 2011)

*Craftsman Radial Arm Saw Recall*

To anyone purchasing a used Craftsman RAS. There was a recall out on a number of models some years back that is still being honored. 

There's a website that allows you to enter the serial number to ascertain if your particular unit is subject to the recall. 

They will send you an updated guard along with a brand new table top/fence free of charge - shipping included.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...&qsubts=1347122938719&q=radial+arm+saw+recall


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Pirate said:


> I think a ras with 3+ "real" hp, would not try to climb cut. Sort of like a car, with a lot of hp. It will spin the tires. Without a lot of hp, it will grab the track, and drive forward.


Well, the ones we had at the furniture factory were all three phase so I'm gonna assume at least 3HP and they would pull themselves through a cut as fast as an operator could. Some of the fools working there liked it, just push the stock to the stop and bump the carriage out some.:thumbdown:
Anyone shopping CL or similar for a RAS needs to be very careful checking it out. No telling what blade is in it.

not sure I get the car analogy. Saw blade has plenty more bite than a tire does.


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