# Pickled oak



## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

Am using water base pickled min wax stain and it is raising the oak grain. Any suggestions on the finishing technique? Will this sand down after poly is applied? The directions say to not sand after staining.

Thanks


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nwoodward said:


> Am using water base pickled min wax stain and it is raising the oak grain. Any suggestions on the finishing technique? Will this sand down after poly is applied? The directions say to not sand after staining.
> 
> Thanks


Any water based stain or finish will do that. All you can do is sand between the coats when you apply the finish until you get it smooth. There are any number of products you can use to achieve a pickled finish. You can just take a oil based white enamel and thin it and use that for stain. When I did a lot of that I used Promar Exterior Alkyd Flat from Sherwin Williams for the stain. An oil based product won't raise the grain near as much as a water based product.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

nwoodward said:


> Am using water base pickled min wax stain and it is raising the oak grain. Any suggestions on the finishing technique? Will this sand down after poly is applied? The directions say to not sand after staining.
> 
> Thanks


 Yes, after applying poly and sanding, you should be baby smooth. 3 coats of poly, sanding between each coat, should do it.


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## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

Guys I've I'm having great luck with testing samples of oak and popular and with a little further reading online learned that a wet rag to dampen the oak pre stain letting it dry and a rebuff sanding to knock down the raised fibers with 220 significantly decreases the waterbased minwax stain to cause further problematic pesky raised fibers . 
I'm having a huge internal struggle personally to stain oak this pickled white because it's beauty is significantly reduced compared to say a stain of English walnut. 
Steve, let my run this by you. What issues would you see if I was to pre dampen a wet rag with a water dilution + color agent like clothing dye/food coloring to tone the oak away from the red oak. (Because white over the red oak looks kinda pink and hides grain patterns) and then stain and poly.?


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

nwoodward said:


> Guys I've I'm having great luck with testing samples of oak and popular and with a little further reading online learned that a wet rag to dampen the oak pre stain letting it dry and a rebuff sanding to knock down the raised fibers with 220 significantly decreases the waterbased minwax stain to cause further problematic pesky raised fibers .
> I'm having a huge internal struggle personally to stain oak this pickled white because it's beauty is significantly reduced compared to say a stain of English walnut.
> Steve, let my run this by you. What issues would you see if I was to pre dampen a wet rag with a water dilution + color agent like clothing dye/food coloring to tone the oak away from the red oak. (Because white over the red oak looks kinda pink and hides grain patterns) and then stain and poly.?


 One thing you can do is first sand the wood with 180 grit paper. Next, take a wire brush and go back and forth with the grain of the wood. This will open up the pores and allow the pickled white more area to hand up and it will give you better definition of the grain when completed.

I do this for customers all the time. Here is my finishing schedule for pickled oak AFTER sanding and wire brushing the wood:
1. Stain wood color of choice, water or solvent based.
2. Seal with a washcoat (thinned sealer 1:1 with thinner or 1:3 with water depending on what based stain Im using.)
3. Scuff sand with 320 grit lightly. This will remove the raised grain.
4. Apply pickled stain either spray or wipe on. Then wipe in a circular motion to get the pickled stain deep into the grain, then start wiping excess off *AGAINST* the grain. Finally use either steel wool or scotch brite and remove the haze left. This will highlight the grain even further.
5. Sealer.
6. Sealer.
7. Topcoat.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nwoodward said:


> Guys I've I'm having great luck with testing samples of oak and popular and with a little further reading online learned that a wet rag to dampen the oak pre stain letting it dry and a rebuff sanding to knock down the raised fibers with 220 significantly decreases the waterbased minwax stain to cause further problematic pesky raised fibers .
> I'm having a huge internal struggle personally to stain oak this pickled white because it's beauty is significantly reduced compared to say a stain of English walnut.
> Steve, let my run this by you. What issues would you see if I was to pre dampen a wet rag with a water dilution + color agent like clothing dye/food coloring to tone the oak away from the red oak. (Because white over the red oak looks kinda pink and hides grain patterns) and then stain and poly.?


I've never tried clothing dye on wood before but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. Be sure to try it on a large sample before using it on a project. You never know, it might go on uneven. I normally use an alcohol based dye and spray it on. If the clothing dye doesn't work you might look to Transtint dye. It is at least formulated for wood. Anyway the pink in the oak can be counteracted by using a green dye. It doesn't take very much. The solution should look like very watered down lime koolaid. Any color you apply should be put on first and sealed before going over it with white. The colorant will mix with the white if you don't and make the pickle paint green. 

Poplar isn't a great candidate for a pickle finish. The wood needs a lot of texture for the pigment to stick in to really show up and poplar doesn't have it. You would have to have a project with a lot of molding or carvings for the white to stick in the crevases. 

When I pickle oak I use a finish that is more concentrated with pigment than the minwax pickled oak. It doesn't cover the grain it enhances it kind of like this picture I found on the net.


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## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

Many thanks RandyReed. What is the bristle type of brush you use? Silver or brass. I will give a few samples a try tonight.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

nwoodward said:


> Many thanks RandyReed. What is the bristle type of brush you use? Silver or brass. I will give a few samples a try tonight.


I don't really brush anything. I always spray or wipe. I only use brushes when I am dry brushing.

I don't think it matters what kind of brush you use as long as the brush is made for:
1. water if your using water based 
2. oil if your using oil based 

They also make brushes for oil and water use which is what I would choose and suggest. Steve may correct me on that if Im wrong.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

By coincidence, I had to match a pickled oak panel submitted by a customer this evening. In the picture I show how I apply the pickled glaze in a circular motion wiping it into the grain and then I wipe off cross grain. I then go back and clean off the haze left by the pickle glaze with some steel wool. Im trying to attach a picture of the panel after its been cleaned with steel wool but for some reason its not letting me upload it.


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## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

Randy I was talking about the brush you use to deepen the grain.
Steve thanks that picture is very much what I would like to achieve. I may try old masters


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

nwoodward said:


> Randy I was talking about the brush you use to deepen the grain.
> Steve thanks that picture is very much what I would like to achieve. I may try old masters


Oh, duh, I wasn't thinking.  I use the gold.

Finally, a pic of the finished panel attached. The pictures suck, but you can get the idea.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nwoodward said:


> Randy I was talking about the brush you use to deepen the grain.
> Steve thanks that picture is very much what I would like to achieve. I may try old masters


If you want to brush the grain to eat out more of the soft wood I would use a steel wire brush. 

All any of the pickle stains are is thinned down paint. Some are more thin than others is why I tend to make my own. If you buy a product and it doesn't do it for you, you can just buy a can of white paint and mix into it until you get the results you want. You just have to get water based paint to go with water based stain or oil based paint to go with oil based stain.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Most pickle glazes are nothing more than wood fillers that hang up in the grain and fill it. Some can be tinted. Ive done a lot of them for customers that I thought were ugly. One in particular was a black background with pink grain. 

I have used water based pickle glazed and even latexes before, but to me, they are a little harder to remove. 

You can also use a powder glaze which is applied either by spraying or brushing. Once dry, you simply wipe of the excess which is now in powder form and is by far the easiest to remove. The only down fall is it doesn't have the look that a pickle glaze has when a topcoat is applied to it.


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## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

This is about all I can achieve. Still not sold.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I see two problems. The first is the wood needs a light stain. Then the white wash is too watered down to show up in the grain.


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## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

I totally agree. The dye in the water is to risky. I can already envision unevenness application. I was contemplating a wipe of ebony stain and quickly wipe it off and then reapply pickle


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## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

That's not good either.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It still needs more white pigment however most of the problem you have is with that particular piece of wood. It has a very tight straight grain. Another board that has wavy grain will have more softer places. If you look at the picture I posted in post 6 you will see there is areas that didn't take the white at all. You sample is doing a similar thing.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

nwoodward said:


> That's not good either.


You can paint it black if you wanted to. The key is you have to apply a sealer or a washcoat AFTER your first stain coat is applied. Your pickle product is bitting into the wood creating a hazy look.

1. sand and wire brush.
2. apply stain. 
3. apply a sealer or washcoat to keep the pickle glaze from biting into the first stain you applied.
4. scuff sand the sealer or washcoat
5. apply pickle glaze OR your latex mixture. You don't need to cut the latex much, 2 or 3 parts latex to 1 part water is plenty.

if your using a latex, you may have to just sand it off with the grain using 240 grit paper on a sanding block to leave the hang up in the grain. If you use an oil based glaze, use steel wool to clean open the closed grain and wiping off as much pickle glaze as you can.


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