# Strop is Actually Dulling My Chisel?



## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

So I am taking a 3/4 flat chisel to some white oak, and you can guess that my priority is keeping it incredibly sharp. To do this, I take the chisel back to the strop every so often to renew the edge. Lately, it seems like it's still returing a razor sharp edge, but not exactly the obnoxiously sharp edge I worked so hard for to begin with. 

I have noticed that the previously flat and true reflection from the bevel and back of the chisel is now beginning to warp near the edge, as though the strop (leather charged with "white" buffing compound, the finest of three types but unsure of the exact material) is rounding it and increasing the bevel angle at the edge. 

Is this expected after about a dozen sharpenings with the strop alone, or is it probable that my compound is too aggressive? If the latter, would uncharged cardboard or leather work better for edge maintenance in between sharpening?


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

Once a chisel is lapped and properly sharpened, you can use the strop to crisp up the edge for a while, but eventually, the strop will actually end up burnishing the sharp point of the chisel, causing a "hook" to be formed. That sharp little edge doesn't last forever and it is at this point, that you will need to resharpen the chisel.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

1. The white honing compound is probably aluminium oxide, one of the finer materials with a nominal particle size of 0.2 microns.
2. Working with a leather strop, it is important not to apply too much pressure with each stroke,
That compresses the leather which rebounds at the new bevel edge and rounds it off to some stupid angle like 40 degrees.
3. Hindsight tells me that a leather strop is a piece of history. Never was any more or less than a carrier for the honing compound. I use various cardboards from cereal boxes on any hard surface I can find.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Strops are great for the occasional touch-up on an edge, but sometime you just gotta break out your sharpening system of choice. In my experience if you still have an edge after working with hardwoods and stropping it a dozen times, call the manufacture and praise the quality of the steel


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> Strops are great for the occasional touch-up on an edge, but sometime you just gotta break out your sharpening system of choice. In my experience if you still have an edge after working with hardwoods and stropping it a dozen times, call the manufacture and praise the quality of the steel


I agree.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

epicfail48 said:


> Strops are great for the occasional touch-up on an edge, but sometime you just gotta break out your sharpening system of choice. In my experience if you still have an edge after working with hardwoods and stropping it a dozen times, call the manufacture and praise the quality of the steel


Well I did buy a relatively expensive, individual chisel. None of that chinese 5-pack junk. It sharpens slow, especially since I flattened the back and bevel (came hollow ground), but I can shave with it after hours of working white oak and a quick strop.

I actually mix sharpening techniques. I use sand paper over my arkansas stone to flatten it, because 400 grit goes a lot faster than the stone. Then I use the stone as the next step, which doubles as a check to see if it's flat (the paper warps and bends enough to sand the whole surface, even if it's not totally flat). Then I return to 1500 grit paper over the stone before stropping to mirror finish. After all that, I have to fight the urge to replace my electric razor with my chisel for my morning shave. 

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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Robson Valley said:


> 1. The white honing compound is probably aluminium oxide, one of the finer materials with a nominal particle size of 0.2 microns.
> 2. Working with a leather strop, it is important not to apply too much pressure with each stroke,
> That compresses the leather which rebounds at the new bevel edge and rounds it off to some stupid angle like 40 degrees.
> 3. Hindsight tells me that a leather strop is a piece of history. Never was any more or less than a carrier for the honing compound. I use various cardboards from cereal boxes on any hard surface I can find.


I was having good luck with plain cereal box cardboard before I realized I had the compound. I bought half a cow worth if thick, full grain tooling leather for another project. It takes the compound well, and is very firm, so it's very convenient. On top of that, the surface can be cleaned by simply paring it away. 

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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

+1 for cereal box cardboard. Chocolate Cheerios rules!

I use the corner/edge of a 6" mill file as a gentle rake to clean my leather strop.
What happened?
My chrome green honing compound is laced with the slightly finer aluminum oxide.
Mixed together, they are suspended in some sort of very hard wax = the faster I streak it,
friction heating makes more come off.
Over the years, I'm guessing that I got enough wax into the leather of the strop to soften it.
Any amount of pressure at all and I can see the leather rebounding after compression under the gouge bevel.
So, I've pretty much put it away in favor of a strip of some sort of package cardboard.
Since then, honing seems more effective. Plus, can't beat the economics of a new strop
as soon as the old one is good and black with metal!


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## vinnypatternmaker (Mar 27, 2011)

*Cardboard Strop*

Hi!
Cardboard strop?...hmmmm....can't say that we've ever used one :huh:!
But it is worth a try :thumbsup: Thanx to All!
Will let you guys know!
Best,
Marena and Vinny


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

vinnypatternmaker said:


> Hi!
> Cardboard strop?...hmmmm....can't say that we've ever used one :huh:!
> But it is worth a try :thumbsup: Thanx to All!
> Will let you guys know!
> ...


Paper products, especially cheap ones (paper towels, cardboard, etc.) are mildly abrasive. If I recall correctly, cheap paper towels equate to something like 6000 grit paper, but it could have been a different number, it was a while ago. 

I learned about this when researching plexiglass for a previous project, and learned that paper towels scuff the surface. 

I tried to shine up some lacquer with paper towels in a pinch once, but found that such a fine and soft material won't do any good unless you're buffing something very hard like metal or acrylic plexiglass. Softer materials seem to just wear away by friction rather than a cutting action.

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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Wood carver's trick: burnish the carving with brown paper bag.

Aside from any possible sharpening stones that you can buy in the world.
Some years back, a sharpening system was popularized as the "Scary Sharp Method."
In this, you use a series of fine automotive finishing sandpapers, 3M makes some very fine grades.
In the original, you are expected to glue the papers down to some impossibly flat surface,
yadda, yadda, yadda. A 2" piece of masking tape at one end is enough.

I'm carving with a dozen crooked knives with various sweeps/curves to the blades, many are double edged as well. Stones are silly unless you find real polished river stones (I have a few.)
Instead, I have 3/4" aluminum tubing pieces with 800 and 1500 and a 4x6 white file card (aka strop)
wrapped around them, ends tacked down with masking tape. Entirely adequate for years, replacable in a minute and the entire set up maybe cost me $4.00.

Cereal box cardboard is too stiff to roll around the tubing, it creases. But, dang fine on a flat surface.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

For a hone you can use fiber board and rub some polishing compound on it. The board won't round the edge of your chisel. I use tooth paste as my final compound as it is about 8,000 grit. You will need to let the tooth paste dry well before using it.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Sirnanigans said:


> So I am taking a 3/4 flat chisel to some white oak, and you can guess that my priority is keeping it incredibly sharp. To do this, I take the chisel back to the strop every so often to renew the edge. Lately, it seems like it's still returing a razor sharp edge, but not exactly the obnoxiously sharp edge I worked so hard for to begin with.
> 
> I have noticed that the previously flat and true reflection from the bevel and back of the chisel is now beginning to warp near the edge, as though the strop (leather charged with "white" buffing compound, the finest of three types but unsure of the exact material) is rounding it and increasing the bevel angle at the edge.
> 
> Is this expected after about a dozen sharpenings with the strop alone, or is it probable that my compound is too aggressive? If the latter, would uncharged cardboard or leather work better for edge maintenance in between sharpening?


What Kenbo said: if it worked originally and doesn't now, than your edge has just rounded too much from the work and needs to be honed again on a stone, or whatever method you use. A strop is a great final polishing method, but it's not a replacement for a sharpening stone, it's an add-on.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

If the edge is rounded off to the point that honing can't bring it back, you should be able to see light reflected from that edge in a bright light.
I suggest 800 then 1500 then look for the reflected light after each step.

In any case, wipe some black felt marker on the bevel = great indicator of where the metal is really coming off.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Robson Valley said:


> If the edge is rounded off to the point that honing can't bring it back, you should be able to see light reflected from that edge in a bright light.
> I suggest 800 then 1500 then look for the reflected light after each step.
> 
> In any case, wipe some black felt marker on the bevel = great indicator of where the metal is really coming off.


That's not the case, the edge is still sharp enough to shave hairs and there's no way I can see any light from the edge. Unfortunately, this project involves carving into dense white oak and demands some ridiculous level of perfection in my tools, especially since I am paring across the grain. I am sure that my chisel, when it begins to seem dull, would still slice through softer woods like butter.

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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Well, that clears that off as a possibility!
Endgrain carving is a punishment in any sort of wood.
Cedar thanks you by not cutting at all, it just crushes and shatters internally.

The people who might be helpful are those who do wood-cut printing = they carve into endgrain.
I might have the terms bass-akwards: the other gang do wood block prints, carving into face grain.


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## Sirnanigans (Apr 3, 2014)

Robson Valley said:


> Well, that clears that off as a possibility!
> Endgrain carving is a punishment in any sort of wood.
> Cedar thanks you by not cutting at all, it just crushes and shatters internally.
> 
> ...


I am not sure if the correct term for it, but I guess across the grain was wrong. I do a little end grain carving, but most of it is with the edge parallel to the grain lines, carving across the edge of the board. Imagine dove tail carving, but I am carving the edge that's not end grain. 

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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

OK, here's another possibility:
Woodworking skews are commonly 25 degrees and planes and chisels are about 30 degree total included bevels. I can believe that the pressures are enormous, pushing a plane along hardwood.

Wood carving tool bevels are usually 20 degrees. So, I'm not pushing the wood open to the same angle that others are. I bought a pair of Narex skews from LV @ 25 degrees, what a Hello of an effort to push them through even western red cedar. Scrubbed those puppies back to 20 degrees and they are my go-to pair for formline carving (centerline drag cut with a 12 degree knife then carve back to the lines in a V-groove with skews.)

What if your total included bevel angle on the tool was just 20 degrees and 1/2 the width so less effort altogether?


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

As far as stropping an edge goes, i stumbled across a bit of a method last night. I use the "Scary Sharp" method for doing all my stuff, and when i got the blades all up to 2000 grit and decided to polish, i decided to improvise. I took a piece of cardstock, glue it to a tile and rubbed some green compound all over it. Worked a charm


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What I use for a strop is a piece of leather stretched over a 1x4 and loaded down with a jewelers rouge. I use it wet and it works great.


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