# Have a few bookcase questions. Would love some advice.



## DanMar (Feb 15, 2013)

Well...my very long post was lost just now, so here goes a second attempt :wallbash:. 


I have a few lingering decisions to make in regard to some VERY simple bookcases I'd like to build. I hope to get some feedback from the experienced members here. Thanks for your time.




Some background information.

I'm planning to copy the the very basic Ikea Billy Bookcase design (link). I prefer the style and it's less work for me as an inexperienced (ie. I have no experience at all) woodworker. I plan to use my own dimensions, but they're not 100% set in concrete yet. The following dimensions will be within +/- 2" of my final design. H 78" x W 20" x D 11 1/4". It will be built out of Poplar board that can be found at my local Home Depot and held together with Elmer's Wood Glue and 16 gauge finishing/brad(??) nails. I plan on having the center shelf as a permanent shelf for extra support, while the rest are adjustable. This matches the design of the Billy bookcase I linked to above.

Now for my questions below.




Question 1: Does this design need a permanent shelf for support?

Since I am matching the design of the Billy bookcase, the center shelf will be fixed in place. I'm assuming this design choice has A LOT to do with the material used(particle board), which will have a tendency to sag or round out in the center under max load. Should I leave the fixed shelf in the plans or will Poplar board allow for all shelves to be adjustable?



Question 2: I plan to use either the L-Shaped (example) or the Spoon shaped(?) (example) 5mm shelf pins. Will either of these be sufficient under max load?

Based on my calculations, max load will be 60lbs maximum per shelf.
I feel the design of the L-shaped pins allow for better distribution of weight and puts less pressure on the pin holes. Am I correct in assuming this? At the weight listed above, will it even matter which style of shelf pin I choose?



Question 3: Would an L-shaped shelf pin cause any issues in regard to the fitting in of an adjustable shelf?

If, for example, I have a shelf sized to 20" exactly, will thickness of the L-shaped pins cause a snug or too tight of a fit? Or are we talking millimeters here and it doesn't matter at all? Sorry for the poor wording.



Question 4: Can I raise the sides and use the top as another shelf?

Example of what I mean below. Notice how this person uses the top as another shelf. I'd like to do the same to the design I linked to above. This would add a seventh, open-top shelf. Could I keep the design exactly the same--put together in the same manner detailed above--without compromising the sturdiness of the shelf? Would the fixed center shelf be needed at this point or could I do without it?












Question 5: Is Poplar a good wood to use in regard to tannic acid levels?

I've recently stumbled upon the issue of tannic acid and the negative effects it can have on books over their lifetime. I don't want to worry about it too much. I figure I will just choose a less acidic species and prime, paint and seal like I originally planned. That's why I decided on Poplar board. I've read a few recommendations for it's use over Oak or Pine; Not that Oak is even in my budget. 




Again..sorry for my poor wording. If any clarification or elaboration is needed, please let me know. Thanks for your time.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Bookcase*

Now for my answers to your questions below.

Question 1: Does this design need a permanent shelf for support?

Ans: Yes. Locate one fixed shelf near the center of the case. 

Question 2:
L-Shaped 5-mm-20-lb-Nickel-Plated-Steel-Shelf-Support-Pegs
Spoon shaped(?) Prime-Line-25-lb-5-mm-Nickel-Plated-Steel-Shelf-Pegs Will either of these be sufficient under max load?

Ans: Yes. Either will work for you. Your choice. 

Based on my calculations, max load will be 60lbs maximum per shelf.
At the weight listed above, will it even matter which style of shelf pin I choose?

Ans: No. 

Question 3: Would an L-shaped shelf pin cause any issues in regard to the fitting in of an adjustable shelf?

If a shelf sized to 20" exactly, will thickness of the L-shaped pins cause a snug or too tight of a fit? 

Ans: You will cut the shelves up to 1/4" shorter to allow room for the pins. 
The shelves will be cut a little shorted even with the straight pin to allow adjusting up or down. 

Question 4: Can I raise the sides and use the top as another shelf?

Ans: You can raise the sides, but either way, ( see #1 Question) you will need a center support. 

Question 5: Is Poplar a good wood to use in regard to tannic acid levels?

Ans: Thousands of bookcases have been made out of poplar. 
The finish or paint will seal the wood. 
But, the Paper in the books has tannic acid in it. 
All paper will eventually turn yellow and get brittle unless kept sealed. 

This is an easy project and you will enjoy building it.


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## DanMar (Feb 15, 2013)

Toolman50 said:


> Now for my answers to your questions below.


Toolman50, thanks for the great response. Exactly what I was hoping for. I feel comfortable moving forward with this project now. :notworthy:


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

DanMar said:


> Question 1: Does this design need a permanent shelf for support?


The alternative is that the side panels will bow out and the shelves will collapse.
The middle shelf should be fixed and maybe you should also bisect these spaces and add two more fixed shelves because your bookcase is tall and because estimates are not time-proof. 
Because of the dimensions you want, I would advise using thick wood, like 1 inch or 1 1/4 thick. In Europe we would use something 24-30mm thick.

Mass produced melamine bookcases (like IKEA) are usually held together by screws and/or more "exotic" things that make assembly easy requiring only a screwdriver and a rubber hammer and they are usually sturdy unless they gone too cheap on wood.

Better quality melamine bookcases are made with staples, dowels and brad nails so that everything is hidden.



DanMar said:


> Question 2: I plan to use either the L-Shaped (example) or the Spoon shaped(?) (example) 5mm shelf pins. Will either of these be sufficient under max load?


I do not like either of the pins you posted. Not that they are bad, I just don't like them.
See here: http://img.weiku.com/a/003/615/Meta...nish_in_nickel_zinc_gold_and_brass_5193_3.JPG
I use the ones on the top right corner. They are excellent. It is easier to make calculations for those, they do not require work on the shelves, they are sturdy and they can take overload. Really easy to use.

But all pins will work, even the cheapest plastic ones. I have a very cheap bookcase that uses the middle left type of pin and I have it overloaded for years now. No problems, only the edge banding falls off but this is not because of the weight. :laughing:



DanMar said:


> Question 3: Would an L-shaped shelf pin cause any issues in regard to the fitting in of an adjustable shelf?


For the L-pins you posted do what Toolman50 said.

If the holes are the same diameter as the pins, they are perpendicular to the board and all four of them are properly aligned, there will be no issue with adjusting the shelves, no matter what pis you chosen. BUT, you should not use mixed types of pins or change the pins you use, especially if you had the shelves made for a specific type of pins.

Make sure that you use a Metric drill bit for Metric pins and an Imperial drill bit for Imperial pins. 
NEVER trust rounded conversion tables. They give a very basic idea but for calculation they are just a steaming pile of poop.
For example, 5mm is NOT 3/16. 3/16 is 4,76250mm. A 5mm pin will not fit inside a 3/16 hole. At least not as it is supposed to fit.
Pins should fit tight but not too tight. Loose pins will cause nothing but trouble. The "right" fit is when you can pull them out fit your hand without putting but relatively absolutely minimal effort.



DanMar said:


> Question 4: Can I raise the sides and use the top as another shelf?


 Sure you can, but the weight of the books will act as a lever and reinforcing it with wood screws will make it look bad. Furthermore, your bookcase is already too tall and you might have to screw it into the wall.



DanMar said:


> Question 5: Is Poplar a good wood to use in regard to tannic acid levels?


No idea. I am in Europe. We use melamine (cheap) or MDF (expensive). Some very few use Plywood (somewhere between). All three types of man made wood work nicely IF you use good quality wood of appropriate thickness.


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## DanMar (Feb 15, 2013)

Scinzon, I really like those pins you linked to. I'm going to search online to see if I can find something similar that's sold in the US. I agree with you on your other points. I might just reduce the height a bit or consider extra reinforcement. Thanks for the feedback.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*in general ...*

A bookcase with a back that is glued and screwed or nailed into the edges, top, center and bottom shelves is the best design. The shelves in between can be adjustable, no problem. Here's why. 

The back holds the long edges of the side from moving apart at the rear. The center, top and bottom fixed shelves holds the sides from moving outward. If the adjustable boards are "too short", they should almost be a press fit, they will sag, and fall through because the sagging reduces their "effective" length and they will slide off the pegs.

It's also best if you can attach the back of the bookcase to the wall studs. Children like to climb and hang on things, and a heavy load of books will injure a child if they were to fall.


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## Scinzon (Apr 29, 2015)

No problem. 

Just one more thing. Because you are in the US, you will probably have to find stubs to screw the bookcase to the wall, so this can change everything.

In Europe we use clay bricks and plaster so we can drill anywhere on the wall. This why I forgot about that. 


Alternately, you can just use a regular shelf over the bookcase and support it with good old brackets. You can make it in a "Pi" shape so that it will look just like the tops of the bookcases you posted. Like so ---> |________|

So you will have the top of the bookcase and the shelf to use as for storing stuff.. I hope you are tall enough. I have shelves that are 68 and 88 inches high and I need to go get a stool often. :laughing: Mostly for the 88 inch one.


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## DanMar (Feb 15, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> A bookcase with a back that is glued and screwed or nailed into the edges, top, center and bottom shelves is the best design. The shelves in between can be adjustable, no problem. Here's why.
> 
> The back holds the long edges of the side from moving apart at the rear. The center, top and bottom fixed shelves holds the sides from moving outward. If the adjustable boards are "too short", they should almost be a press fit, they will sag, and fall through because the sagging reduces their "effective" length and they will slide off the pegs.
> 
> It's also best if you can attach the back of the bookcase to the wall studs. Children like to climb and hang on things, and a heavy load of books will injure a child if they were to fall.


Thanks woodnthings. I figured the design as is would be secure enough. It's simple, but sturdy. I would reconsider if I chose it to be wider, but I'd rather invest in more narrow shelves and keep it simple for me.

Luckily, there are never any children in the house and I'm not in an earthquake prone area. I'll still secure everything to the wall for precaution sake. Better safe than sorry.




Scinzon said:


> No problem.
> 
> Just one more thing. Because you are in the US, you will probably have to find stubs to screw the bookcase to the wall, so this can change everything.
> 
> ...


No worries on height issues. I can reach 84 inches comfortably and still have a bit of stretch if I need it. :thumbsup: 

I shouldn't have a problem with the studs. I can go with simple sturdy brackets if need be. I'm planning on lining a few up so I might even attach a long 1/2" plywood, cut to size along the back and secured to the studs. That should give me the support I need while giving me complete freedom in how to attach the shelves to the wall and it should be mostly hidden from sight.

Does something like this sound feasible and safe? Maybe solid wood would be better than plywood in this instance?


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

DanMar said:


> Thanks woodnthings. I figured the design as is would be secure enough. It's simple, but sturdy. I would reconsider if I chose it to be wider, but I'd rather invest in more narrow shelves and keep it simple for me.
> 
> Does something like this sound feasible and safe? Maybe solid wood would be better than plywood in this instance?


I suggest you stay with plywood. Your shelving will be strong enough and it will simplify your project. 
Most bookcases we buy from furniture stores today are not made of solid wood. They are a combination of pressed board composites, MDF, plywood and trimmed with real wood, plastic or more composites.


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