# Working out a new chair design



## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

To all,

I decided to work my way in to my walnut stash by starting with the lower quality pieces first. I started with this plank that was mostly sapwood and decided to practice with my hand planes and smoothed it out with an old 6 I tuned up.









I was thinking I would use the plank whole and was looking through my George Nakashima book and hit on the idea of a Conoid Chair. So I gulped and cut two feet off the end of the plank for the chair seat. I'll use the seat on the final product but I needed to work out the design and geometry using cheap wood that I'll use as a pattern, in this case some nice 2 x 4s that I picked through at HD, less the $2 each.

























Anyway, I got it all rough out and dry fitted today. The little curved back support was something that I had laying around and I'm not crazy about that. I'll probably go with a mortised in crest rail and some curved splats for a more classy look.

I am pretty happy with the results of my first prototype of this new (for me )design. It needs a lot of refinement but I can visualize the final product from here. I think it will be sweet. It's also amazingly solid even just dry fit. I was a little skeptical about the cantilever at first.

Bret


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

That's a pretty cool looking prototype. Will be watching for the finished project.
How is the seat attached to the back? Looks maybe like mated slots in the seat and in the upright. 1/2 way or more thru the upright?


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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

Looking really nice :thumbsup:



DST said:


> How is the seat attached to the back?


My thoughts too..


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## eagle49 (Mar 22, 2011)

I would make the back out the same wood as seat and curve it.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

Cool looking so far and I agree with Johnray on the back.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*probably jumping the gun here*

But since your style is based on beautiful curved lines and surfaces, I wondered if this design would evolve into that style as well?

Also wondering if the back braces at the seat level would be uncomfortable pressure points when seated? Have you tried it out to see how those affect the back of your butt?

My weak attempt at a sketch was what I had in mind:


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

The joinery is fairly simple but very strong









Thanks,

the design of the back is under review

Bret


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Bret, awesome stuff as always. Looking forward to seeing it finished. I'd like to see the seat connection too... Been toying with the idea of something similar with a sliding Dovetail connection there.

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> But since your style is based on beautiful curved lines and surfaces, I wondered if this design would evolve into that style as well?
> 
> Also wondering if the back braces at the seat level would be uncomfortable pressure points when seated? Have you tried it out to see how those affect the back of your butt?
> 
> My weak attempt at a sketch was what I had in mind:


Bill, 

I think I'm going to lose the backrest altogether and go with some splats and a crest rail for a more sculptural look. The backrest I stuck on there reminds me of school furniture.

Bret


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The chair looks good. I like the basic design. If you add splats, and you want to maintain the little curve as you have done, it appears it may be a bit high. When it hits in the small of the back it helps as support, and is actually comfortable (if it doesn't stick out too much). This is somewhat of an example.












 







.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> The chair looks good. I like the basic design. If you add splats, and you want to maintain the little curve as you have done, it appears it may be a bit high. When it hits in the small of the back it helps as support, and is actually comfortable (if it doesn't stick out too much). This is somewhat of an example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Lola Ranch said:


> cabinetman said:
> 
> 
> > The chair looks good. I like the basic design. If you add splats, and you want to maintain the little curve as you have done, it appears it may be a bit high. When it hits in the small of the back it helps as support, and is actually comfortable (if it doesn't stick out too much). This is somewhat of an example.
> ...


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Very nice.....has an animated look to it.Sometimes pics don't do certain designs justice......yours comes off with an "inviting" look in the shots.Which is heading in a very good direction......a chair that makes you want to sit in it,cool.BW


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I love your work Bret, but I have to be honest. I do not like the chair with splats. It doesn't look right to me. It's your piece, but I want to be honest and upfront. That being said, I can't wait to see what you decide and how this turns out.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I agree ACP*



ACP said:


> I love your work Bret, but I have to be honest. I do not like the chair with splats. It doesn't look right to me. It's your piece, but I want to be honest and upfront. That being said, I can't wait to see what you decide and how this turns out.



The following comments are meant to be helpful, not critical and are just my opinion, having some experience in the field of Design... some 35 years at GM Design Staff. No offense Bret! :thumbsup: 
Here's what I see as the problem....positive vs negative space. It's a design tool I learned way back in Industrial Design school. The negative space or "air" between the splats is greater, more dominant than the space occupied by the splats, for one. There needs to be at least one more splat...2 just doesn't cut it. either 3 or 5. The design of the splats doesn't work with the simplicity of the other lines. They draw too much attention because of their shape. 
There is another issue I see, heaviness vs lightness. The cantilever design makes the chair lighter looking because there are fewer elements, so in keeping with that, the structure needs to reflect that theme. Right now it looks "clunky" but I realize it's still in the developmental stage, so not having any inkling of what's to come I may be jumping the gun here. I would make it lighter by curving the line underneath the base leaving only a contact at the front and rear. I have a feeling the rest of the structure will be "scupltured" as it progresses and therefore lighter.
Also the dead flat line on the top of the back would look better with a curve, in my opinion a whopping curve... It lacks visual intersest as a straight line. So by now, I've probably PO Bret so I'm leaving now.....  bill


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm not defending anything about my design so far. 

I've been looking at Goerge Nakashima's original Conoid Chair design. I'm not sure I can improve upon it. I may just have to copy it.

I'll think about it some more.

Thanks for the input.

Bret


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

I think I got the chair design back on track. I rebuilt everything except the seat and kept it more like George Nakashima's original design, I'll add a few more spindles in the back and shape the little crest rail. 

I tweaked the angles in the legs and feet, made everything a little lighter and extended the back. The proportions are much better.

These chairs will be easy to build. In a run of six I think I can build almost one a day.

I think they will be very sturdy. It's just all dry fitted, no screws or glue yet and it sits quite solidly!

Bret


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I like that a lot! Very nicely done!

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## adamdenshaw (Oct 22, 2011)

Very nicely done  beautiful in fact. What kind of wood did you use for that? The only thing I worry about is that perhaps it is _back_ heavy? Meaning if someone leans back a little bit, they would fall backwords? Also, is the back support angled backward enough to be comfortable? I might copy this exact chair


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

adamdenshaw said:


> Very nicely done  beautiful in fact. What kind of wood did you use for that? The only thing I worry about is that perhaps it is _back_ heavy? Meaning if someone leans back a little bit, they would fall backwords? Also, is the back support angled backward enough to be comfortable? I might copy this exact chair


Adam,

This chair is no more tippy than any other chair. I'm glad you like it but I cannot take credit for the design as I am patterning it after George Nakashima's Conoid Chair. So Google that, you might as well copy the original.

This chair is just a prototype. I will re-use the seat but all the other pieces are from inexpensive 2 x 4s from HD. This is a new design for me and I don't have a pattern or plans. This chair will become the pattern for a run of chairs once I have all the design and joinery problems all worked out. I like to make my mistakes using cheap wood. The final chairs will be walnut. I'm pretty close but I have few little tweaks yet to make.

Bret


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## eagle49 (Mar 22, 2011)

*my chair*

walnut


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Johnray, 

That's a nice chair. Was there a point you were trying to make?

This thread was about a design evolving. Are you suggesting that I just build your chair instead?

Bret


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*forum "etiquette"*

It's just not appropriate to post another project in a build thread unless there is some point as far as the construction or design of the build. That's just my opinion, but I think that chair would be better off in the projects showcase division. They call it hijacking of a sort. I'm sure no offense was intended Bret, but I'll back you on this one....  bill


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## sanchez (Feb 18, 2010)

Bret, your stuff is amazing. It's cool to see how you come up with the final version. Thanks for posting!


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## mn pete (Dec 10, 2010)

Very cool design Bret!


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## CaptRandy (Jan 27, 2011)

Nice working around Nakashima idea. A set would be nice for the dining room.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

CaptRandy said:


> Nice working around Nakashima idea. A set would be nice for the dining room.


CaptRandy,

Yes. I'm pretty fascinated by the design. George engineered this chair quite well. I am truly amazed how sturdy it is without having even glued or screwed it together yet.

Bret


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> It's just not appropriate to post another project in a build thread unless there is some point as far as the construction or design of the build. That's just my opinion, but I think that chair would be better off in the projects showcase division. They call it hijacking of a sort. I'm sure no offense was intended Bret, but I'll back you on this one....  bill


Bill,

I meant no offence and none was taken. I genuinely wanted to know what point Johnray was tryng to make. He didn't say much.

I have at times posted photos of my work on other peoples threads but I'm doing so to demonstrate something pertinent to the discussion. After all a picture is worth a thousand words, although pictures with no words leaves one to wonder about the meaning.

Bret


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## CaptRandy (Jan 27, 2011)

James Mitchner Museum has a room dedicated to George, and we live about 5 miles from his (daughter's) studio. Have been there a few times. We are not too far from Stickley Museum too.


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

Bret, 
Had to go back a way to remember where you were from. It's a little far but if you are ever down south There is a place in Chico CA called Wineland Walnut. They supplied some wood for a table Nakashima built that went to some museum. Anyhow..., the Sawyer on site has a beautiful Nakashima table and chairs dining set as a thank you. 
It is worth a stop for anyone passing thru


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