# Help - inside miters not ligning up



## schoolio (May 9, 2010)

Hey everyone. This is a very silly question I am sure but I am getting very frustrated so I need help.

I am trying to install baseboard trim around my newly finished basement. I have a simple miter saw (no compound) and I can not get the corners to line up. I stand the trim against the fence and set the saw to 45 degrees. When I go to install the pieces the top fits well but there is a gap at the bottom. If I flip the trim over, opposite problem. Please help, what am I doing wrong??


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

schoolio said:


> Hey everyone. This is a very silly question I am sure but I am getting very frustrated so I need help.
> 
> I am trying to install baseboard trim around my newly finished basement. I have a simple miter saw (no compound) and I can not get the corners to line up. I stand the trim against the fence and set the saw to 45 degrees. When I go to install the pieces the top fits well but there is a gap at the bottom. If I flip the trim over, opposite problem. Please help, what am I doing wrong??



*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*

Inside corners should be coped for a good fit. Here is a good video showing how simple it is to do. For a description in text, click here.


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

First make sure your saw blade is square with your fence. Most corners in a house are not square. You would have to measure the angle in the corner & set your miter to half the angle for each cut to complete the corner. A trick I use for misalignment such as you describe is to use a drywall screw behind the corner as a stop to hold the corner piece square. Once lined up you can use a finish nails to attach. Easier if using a finish gun instead of hand nailing.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

Welcome.

Your technique sounds completely correct so there must be an adjustment needed somewhere, BUT cabinetman has given you a MUCH better answer.

Paul


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

many drywallers love to install the panel sideways, leaving the tapered edge toward the bottom. this leaves a very difficult void to build up to the wall plane with mud, rarely done right. leaving the lower section "deeper" then the wall. you can check this with a straight edge. this may be your problem. regardless, i often use cardboard as a backer to fill in when this happens. i don't nail either side until i get it vertical, and coping is a must.


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

TimPa said:


> many drywallers love to install the panel sideways, leaving the tapered edge toward the bottom. this leaves a very difficult void to build up to the wall plane with mud, rarely done right. leaving the lower section "deeper" then the wall. you can check this with a straight edge. this may be your problem. regardless, i often use cardboard as a backer to fill in when this happens. i don't nail either side until i get it vertical, and coping is a must.


I agree with most of what is said here except that "coping is a must". While coping a joint is preferred by many, it is not the only way it can be done successfully. For myself I will cope most of the time, but there are times when I have used miters also.

In my own experience I have done it both ways cope or miter & have seen many examples of a mitered corner after many years not even hint at opening up. For some homeowners learning the skill of coping a piece of trim is hard to grasp. For them I would suggest a mitered joint.


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## chubbyhubby (Mar 7, 2010)

Corners are rarely framed truly square (no offense to the framers out there). Even if it is framed square, the drywall mud will usually throw it off. Coping is a skill that can easily come, with time, patience and practice. When I tried doing base my first time, I tried mitering also. You didn't mention if you're going to paint or stain the base. Painted base is a little more forgiving, you can generally use a small amount of latex caulk to cover small imperfections. But if you are using hardwood base that will be stained, the fit has to be there. CH


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

"coping is a must" was probably strong for diy'ers or hobbyists. i am a contractor and installing mitered inside corners will spread (upon installation) more often then not. reason is you measure to the hard surface for the trim length, cut and install. when nailing, the pressure applied will push the trim/drywall/air space back, opening up the miter. i know it sounds smallish, but double it from both walls, now you have something that can be seen.


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## Willie T (Feb 1, 2009)

Cope, COPE...... COPE !

And 



 is the easiest way. (This is BASSWOOD showing us the way.)

Don't beat yourself to death with trying to make miters fit and stay together.

And you DO NOT need a compound saw for any of this.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

C
O
P
E
NO UDDER WAY
:laughing::laughing::yes::yes:


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## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

Another trick is to plant a drywall screw down low on the corner behind the coped/mitred joint.
Use a screwdriver to tweak the vertical plane of the screw head and the upper level of the wall so the joint closes better.
Drywall screws are cheap and if the hollow of the drywall bevel edge is the issue, this will remove it.
Be sure to screw into the bottom plate so it holds its position.


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## ash123 (Mar 14, 2010)

+1 -------> Cope inside

I hollow out the insides of the outsides


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## Jordy3738 (Jan 12, 2009)

By popular demand, I agree that coping is the answer to your troubles on this one. It's by far the better method of making your joints tight.


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## Cincinnati (May 5, 2010)

*Cope and Butt*

Schoolio,

Cope the joint. Even if your miter is dead on today, things move with time and many joints open and show gaps later.


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## CCC (May 28, 2010)

*Cope!!!!*

i totally agree with coping... and oooohhhhh by the way coping with a grinder is alot harder than that cheater makes it look... funny how that weird lookin lil saw is called a "coping" saw??? coincidence? just my 2 cents....


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## Cincinnati (May 5, 2010)

CCC. 

YEP. What other tool can you buy for under $10 that actually works? I saw some fancy coping jigs for jig saws and one for a router. Seemed "gadgety" and expensive, so I never bought one. 

Anybody tried one of these? I remember wanting the router version. Seem to recall you had to make a template first from your base or crown profile.


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## Willie T (Feb 1, 2009)

CCC said:


> i totally agree with coping... and oooohhhhh by the way coping with a grinder is alot harder than that cheater makes it look... funny how that weird lookin lil saw is called a "coping" saw??? coincidence? just my 2 cents....


And worth about the same?

Before you further stick your foot in your mouth :no: , do just a little searching for "Basswood" (the 'cheater' in the video) and simply dream that your work was as good.

BTW you will find him on most any wood forum that you might want to mention. Few, if any have attained his level of expertise.


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

I use a Collins Coping Foot on my Bosch jig saw. It works very well.


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## CCC (May 28, 2010)

Willie T said:


> And worth about the same?
> 
> Before you further stick your foot in your mouth :no: , do just a little searching for "Basswood" (the 'cheater' in the video) and simply dream that your work was as good.
> 
> BTW you will find him on most any wood forum that you might want to mention. Few, if any have attained his level of expertise.



ohh... i dont doubt that it takes skills that he obviously displays... slight sarcasm was used there...


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## Willie T (Feb 1, 2009)

CCC said:


> ohh... i dont doubt that it takes skills that he obviously displays... slight sarcasm was used there...


My apologies. I consider him one of the best woodworkers I know, and I guess I took the 'cheater' part a little too sensitively.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

Schoolio,
You don't mention the type and size of the BB you're installing or the brand and model of MB.
So, even though as most of the members here have said Coping "IS" corners provides a superior product long term it does take practice to get good at and when you are adept you'll rarely ever do it different.

Couple stupid questions 
1. How high is your MB fence?
2. How high is the BB you're trying to install?
3. Assuming the BB is store bought, is the back side relieved, (material removed to assist in flex roll and uneven wall surfaces)?

If the BB is higher than the MB fence and the back of the BB is relieved it may likely be the relief is in contact with the fence in stead of the nailing plane tilting the BB stock back and over the top of the fence. This would explain the reversal of the error when you flip it.

Rarely is a concrete or wood wall close to perfect, add drywall, plaster/joint compound etc and you have a finish mans horror show. Lastly trim stock right from the lumber yd has too high a moisture content and shrink enough within 6 to 12 months to make one cringe. Coping considerably hides the shrinkage from the average eye. If the finish man is worth his/her salt he knows which side of the joint to cope to hide shrinkage from the eye.


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## Paul DIY (Jun 1, 2010)

I used this coping system with very good results. Takes a bit of patience to set up the template, etc.

http://www.thecoper.com/


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

*against the current*

All,

I miter most all my inside corners but I have a trick that makes it fast and fits tight. 

Make your 45 degree plumb cut with the back of the base molding against the saw fence then, without moving you saw setting, flip the molding over and hold the face against the fence. The molding is now upside downs and backwards. Now cut a 45 degree cut from the backside aligned with the from cut but don't cut all the way through, leave about 1/4" to 1/2" and lift the blade out of the cut. Break off the little waste piece that is now dangling off the end. Now you have a little point at the top of your base mold with a relief cut on the back to help get it tight into the corner. You can now push the molding into the corner an actually puncture the drywall tape with the little point and get it to fit really tight. Do the same with the other side and the result should be a perfect fit and faster than coping. This also will work if you cut wider molding flat on your sliding compound saw. If the base doe not have a flat face then you'll have to use some sort of shim to keep it flat to make your back cut.

Not that coping is a bad thing. My method makes removing the base more difficult.


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## G Fresh (Mar 22, 2009)

TimPa said:


> ... i often use cardboard as a backer to fill in when this happens. i don't nail either side until i get it vertical, and coping is a must.



Just my personal opinion, but this is the quickest and most efficient. I also use this technique with great success.


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## Thomas Gioscia (Jan 8, 2009)

schoolio said:


> Hey everyone. This is a very silly question I am sure but I am getting very frustrated so I need help.
> 
> I am trying to install baseboard trim around my newly finished basement. I have a simple miter saw (no compound) and I can not get the corners to line up. I stand the trim against the fence and set the saw to 45 degrees. When I go to install the pieces the top fits well but there is a gap at the bottom. If I flip the trim over, opposite problem. Please help, what am I doing wrong??


The problem is simple. The corner into which you are installing the base board is not plumb. The drywall mud or surface requires shims at the bottom to clean up the corner. Try folding a small piece of paper, tape or cardboard and setting it on the floor behind each piece of base before you set them. Adjust the thickness of these shims so that the bottom of the base board closes up. This will solve the problem. Try not to set low nails in the corner. That will open the joint up again. Good Luck


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## ash123 (Mar 14, 2010)

Cope the inside and backcut the outside.


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