# Make this into a platter or a board



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I started a project I intended to be a platter, but as I look at the latest stage, I am wondering if this is better as a board rather than a platter. 

Looking for your comments on board vs platter.

I started with this slab. Two pieces of hickory, nominally 12 in x 12in joined heartwood to heartwood. Consecutive pieces from a board.










I then drew a pattern, cut out on the bandsaw, and use the cut outs as templates to cut scrap pieces to the same shape.









Then a lot of epoxy. Two stages, first stage epoxy with red colour. Second stage epoxy with green colour. Trying to get an appearance of the pieces twisting in the board. The colours are not showing well in the pictures.

I was considering this to be the top surface. After cleanup of the epoxy. Sanded and buffed but no finish.









The bottom surface, after cleanup of the epoxy. Sanded and buffed but no finish.









What say you, leave this as a board, or continue with a platter, which will be about 12in dia.

Also which surface do you think should be "up", the one I noted as top or the one I noted as bottom.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I'd be more inclined to keep it a board. Would you just cut it on the band saw or turn it round? I'd be leary of turning it for fear of a catch breaking it apart. As for top or bottom, can't say. Really cool idea!


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

How thick is it Dave?
either way I would love to see a platter myself:yes:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

sawdustfactory said:


> I'd be more inclined to keep it a board. Would you just cut it on the band saw or turn it round? I'd be leary of turning it for fear of a catch breaking it apart. As for top or bottom, can't say. Really cool idea!


Thanks. If I made this into a platter I had intended to cut this round on the bandsaw to avoid the catches. Also the diagonal measurement is bigger than my swing, so I have to cut some off in any case.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

robert421960 said:


> How thick is it Dave?
> either way I would love to see a platter myself:yes:


Thanks, presently about 1 3/16in thick. Plenty of thickness for board or platter.

If I go the platter route, I would add a temporary glue block for the turning.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

I'll chuck my 2c worth in.

I'm gonna go platter but say square. Those corners swinging by are not fun but it looks good. Sorta feeling go for maximum realestate


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> I'll chuck my 2c worth in.
> 
> I'm gonna go platter but stay square. Those corners swinging by are not fun but it looks good. Sorta feeling go for maximum realestate


If I make a square platter, I would have to cut the blank down a bit since the present diagonal length is greater than my swing.

I would need to cut down to about 11 1/4in square (28.6 cm) to be able to turn a square platter.

I have only turned a small square bowl. You are right that the corners swinging by are not fun. Not sure I want to tackle the "fun" of this size piece though.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> If I make a square platter, I would have to cut the blank down a bit since the present diagonal length is greater than my swing. I would need to cut down to about 11 1/4in square (28.6 cm) to be able to turn a square platter. I have only turned a small square bowl. You are right that the corners swinging by are not fun. Not sure I want to tackle the "fun" of this size piece though.


Bigger than I thought. Bigger the square bigger the hurts.

You could swing the head on your lathe 

the DVR has a pivoting head like the NOVA 3000 doesn't it?

I dont even know if I would be game to try that at this stage lol

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

I would vote for round.
IF you have a chuck and fairly large jaws (4" or so) I would mount the top with your worm screw. Turn the bottom complete with a recess for your chuck jaws, then turn the top.


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## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

Great looking design! I vote round. Of course that's the only shape I know. I like the glue block idea for reinforcing the glue joint between the two boards while turning. Can't wait to see this one finished.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

I think if not square then round though it seem a shame to lose any of the wood. For a flat work I think a rectangle and the pattern a little longer over the board. That's just me. I think whoever ends up with this piece will be suitably impressed.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Make it a board , and the top photo of the two .

It has great figure , the heartwood stands out better ,
an oil based finish will have it leap out


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for the responses.

I decided to go with a turned solution. Kind of round. Trying to keep most of the "real estate".

A progress picture. Turning is not completed.

I do love the grain on the hickory, but it is not liking to be turned. A lot of tearout no matter what tool I use. Some worse than others. A lot of sanding to clean up the surface for this progress picture.









With the "experience" of the turning, it would have been a lot easier to leave this as a board. :icon_smile:


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

Looking good Dave
Good choice in turning it:thumbsup:


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Loving it Dave ... think you surprised us all with that one

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Another example of your skills.

Looks great...and I know you hate to sand..:thumbsup:


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Nice idea :thumbsup:

Do you have one of the Hunter carbide tools? (Or the Rockler one, it's the same type with the carbide bits that can be used in bevel-rubbing mode as opposed to the EWT scraping variety.)

I've found it easier to get a very fine shear-angled cut (push or pull) with one of these than with a traditional gouge.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

It's looking REALLY nice! I think it's funny that the machine manufacturers have to include all kinds of safety guards, shields, and warning labels to keep us from hurting ourselves....and then we put square pieces of wood on the machine and rev it up to hundreds of RPMs and stick our hands and fingers in with it. :laughing:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

duncsuss said:


> Nice idea :thumbsup:
> 
> Do you have one of the Hunter carbide tools? (Or the Rockler one, it's the same type with the carbide bits that can be used in bevel-rubbing mode as opposed to the EWT scraping variety.)
> 
> I've found it easier to get a very fine shear-angled cut (push or pull) with one of these than with a traditional gouge.


Thanks, I do have the Hunter Hercules and even tried a brand new cutter. Still tears.

I have tried the bevel rubbing. It worked but the more recent time I tried I did something wrong and had an awful catch. Now gun shy about trying this with the rectangular shaft rotated.

I honed my bowl gouges and on the bottom tried a shear scrape cut. Still tears.

Even my scrapers with fresh burr had tearout. I feel it is the hickory grain. This picture is as good as I could cleanup with the scrapers.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Progress pictures from today. Not a lot of turning, but a lot of sanding. :thumbdown:

I decided to add a curve along the sides. Used a french curve to mark the lines and my oscillating spindle sander to sand to the line.

I also sanded the outside edges of the wings. No more attempts to turn on the wings, tearout like everywhere else.

The pencil circle is the outline of my vacuum chuck for re-mounting if needed.









The side profile. I turned some off the bottom so the platter will rest on the wings.









The bottom, after all the tear out was removed by sanding. I can see I need to do some more sanding on the inside of the wings.









Thanks for looking.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Seems you're working through the challenges as they arise.

Just had another thought -- do you have a card scraper? Maybe treating it as flatwork would be a way to get rid of the tearout. (My knowledge is zero in this area, but I believe a scraper has an advantage over sanding in that it doesn't conform to the grain so you don't get ridges.)


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

duncsuss said:


> Just had another thought -- do you have a card scraper? Maybe treating it as flatwork would be a way to get rid of the tearout. (My knowledge is zero in this area, but I believe a scraper has an advantage over sanding in that it doesn't conform to the grain so you don't get ridges.)


Yes, I have a number of card scrapers of various shapes. I actually used a flat card scraper on the curved outside edges. Works well. A lot of control and much less dust than sanding. 

I have used a card scraper on the outside of bowls. Works well. It can reduce sanding, but not eliminate. 

I actually thought about the card scrapers, but then decided the wings would get in the way.

I used my convex scraper on the inside of the wings but with the wood off the lathe.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

JohnInTexas said:


> It's looking REALLY nice! I think it's funny that the machine manufacturers have to include all kinds of safety guards, shields, and warning labels to keep us from hurting ourselves....and then we put square pieces of wood on the machine and rev it up to hundreds of RPMs and stick our hands and fingers in with it. :laughing:


Thanks. Lathes can be fun and dangerous at the same time. 

This is the largest diameter I can turn over the bed. May not be big for some folks, but feels big to me.

I have not tried to turn up the speed over 500 rpm. The wood is balanced so I would not expect vibration, but the tip speed on the outside is fast.

I had a good amount of light focused on the wings as I turned the bottom. Too easy to forget they are out there without the light to remind me.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Thanks. Lathes can be fun and dangerous at the same time. This is the largest diameter I can turn over the bed. May not be big for some folks, but feels big to me. I have not tried to turn up the speed over 500 rpm. The wood is balanced so I would not expect vibration, but the tip speed on the outside is fast. I had a good amount of light focused on the wings as I turned the bottom. Too easy to forget they are out there without the light to remind me.


You know me ... I'm a speed demon.

I think the faster you go the better the cut the better the finish. I dont know enough about epoxy and holding strengths to suggest what maximum speed you should go. Just thinking about the size I reckon I would be heading for something close to 1000 rpm. If it was a solid piece and I was confident in it I think I would crank it up a bit more.

There is a formula somewhere for recommended speeds. My formula is a 2 - 3 formula. If it comes off twice I slow down, if it comes off a third time it is generally ready to bin or repurpose lol

Not helpful I know 

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Formula for speed I learned is diameter x rpm = 6000-9000. Ex- 6" x 1000-1500 rpm = safe speed.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

With something that size and shape I 'plane' the face out to the edge of the ghost circle on both sides , and then while the centre is still solid , I concentrate of the wing tips , both sides , thru to sanding .
And I sand in forward and reverse equally to prevent out of balance 'bullnosing' .

Pivoting the headstock 45* helps too , it keeps my left elbow out of the propeller


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

ROFL! I guess wood turning weeds out most who have no sense of humor.

Dave, I do believe you are getting the twisted wood look you wanted. I couldn't help but be reminded of a genetics class and DNA strands. In your case though, I think DNA stands for Do Not Attempt [if you are faint at heart].


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## lebowtools (Apr 16, 2014)

Thats simply amazing!  just curious to do better than this, I am going to post something like this sooner :smile:


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

lebowtools said:


> Thats simply amazing!  just curious to do better than this, I am going to post something like this sooner :smile:


That's the spirit. That is what this is all about help, advise and inspire. Push our envelopes and hopefully get more posts and threads on here 

I'll be trying one of these too. Couple of other projects first. DNA is one

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

Looking great Dave


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

My progress so far.

I wanted to enhance the lip of the platter. At this point I am not liking the tearout using turning tools.

I have wanted to be able to use my DeWalt 611 router to embellish turning projects on the lathe for some time. I decided it was time to enable this capability.

I recently purchased a compound table, also called an "X-Y" table for use on the drill press. I am finding the ability to control position via the two directions very fast and useful. I like this so much, I decided I wanted this capability when I use the router on the lathe.

I am able to get 7 in of "Y" travel. I can drill a new mounting hole in the base if I need to increase this to my maximum of 8in over the bed.









I cut out the diameter of the router body on a couple of pieces of scrap plywood. I am using copper hanger strap for the hold down. This is very rigid.









The router lined up ready to begin. Many of you may use a platform and move the router by hand. I wanted the router to have a rigid mounting and to be moved by the X or Y direction screws. I am rotating the wood by hand. I like the control.









This gave me zero tearout issues, which was my goal. I was going to route to the outside and transition to the wing.

As I looked at this, I have decided to leave this shallow groove as an embellishment. It also outlines the lip of the platter, which was my original intent.









A side view. The more I look at this, the more I like it - unless I change my mind. :laughing:









Thanks for looking.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Cool setup. Platter looks really nice.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

I'm liking it Dave. Looking real good

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Dave Paine said:


> .... Looking for your comments on board vs platter.....


I don't know about the others, but I have enjoyed following the progress and sort of feel like I am a silent participant. Anyway the project is going beautifully and you have shown great creativity in what you have accomplished.

I also like your router fixture. I have the same router that I just recently bought for the same purpose and I also have an X-Y vise for my DP so I might just "steal" your invention and make one of these fixtures for myself.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Bill Boehme said:


> I don't know about the others, but I have enjoyed following the progress and sort of feel like I am a silent participant. Anyway the project is going beautifully and you have shown great creativity in what you have accomplished.
> 
> I also like your router fixture. I have the same router that I just recently bought for the same purpose and I also have an X-Y vise for my DP so I might just "steal" your invention and make one of these fixtures for myself.


Thanks. I did not start this as a build thread. I was just trying to decide board vs platter.

If I had made a board, I would by now be on the second or third coat of finish. So much easier to cut to dimensions, rout and edge then start to apply finish.

Since I went the platter option, it has been slower progress. Some issues, some evolution of the design. I feel it will be worthwhile once the project is completed.

I am happy if the thread or the router jig inspire someone to try this for themselves. Always good if a thread is able to inspire or just help others. :thumbsup:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

For anyone reading the thread who does want to make a board, a few pictures so you know what you are getting into.

This was the top surface after all the epoxy. I removed the hot glue "dams" and excess epoxy on the surface with a hand chisel.

Some of the pieces were higher than the hickory so needed to be taken down to make a smooth surface.









I knew the epoxy would melt if most power tools so I started with my vintage Stanley No. 4.

Despite having a Lee Valley replacement cap iron, the epoxy and shavings gummed up the blade, and no surprise the sole of the plane.









Plan "B", try a bevel up plane with no cap iron, my Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother. A little better, but the mouth still wanted to block up and the sole gummed up as fast, as in a few strokes.









At this point I wanted to keep my options open since I had not decided whether to proceed with a board or platter, so I needed a way to clean up the surface.

I happen to own a FlatMaster which is a drum sander with the drum mounted underneath the table. This does not produce heat. I changed to a 60 grit abrasive and it was fast to clean up the surface.

If you are wanting to make a flatwork project with epoxied pieces, give some consideration to how you will clean up the surface. Not as easy as I thought.

The hand planes were easy to clean up. Have some acetone available. It is the best solvent for the epoxy.

I do not recommend power planers or jointers. They will get messed up very fast.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Todays progress, I have completed the shaping. Ready for the finish.

I knew the bottom surface was uneven since I had to do a LOT of sanding to clean up the tear out. Now that I have the router setup, I decided to remount on the inside face and true up the bottom. Taking off about 1/16in.

I had the lathe on the slowest speed, 100 rpm. I started in the middle and slowly advanced the "Y" screw to the outside so that the router was spinning in the correct direction with respect to the direction of rotation.

As I advanced more to the outside the sound changed. Once I had completed the cutting I stopped the lathe and noticed a wave pattern. I was advancing VERY slowly. 

I think some harmonic must occur. I have experienced worse ridges/waves with hand tools.









I then did a light cut starting from the outside. I rotated the lathe in reverse by hand, this made a clean cut. You can see this in the first perhaps 3/8in closest to the edge.

It was tiring so I then moved to the centre, reset the "X" axis and again travelled from centre to the outside with the lathe at 100 rpm. I was taking perhaps 1/64in off.

As I approached the outside I slowed down the travel even more.

I still have ridges/waves. The sound was not as pronounced as before.

The learning for me is that hand rotation of the lathe is perhaps the best cut.









The ridges/waves were not deep and easily cleaned up with my random orbit sander starting at 60 grit and working up to 320.

I re-mounted on the lathe and cut a couple of circles just because I felt the bottom needed some embellishment. The inner circle happens to be the circumference of my vacuum chuck head, if I decide I need to re-mount for any tweaking.

The following pictures are after final hand sanding, then buffing on the Beall Tripoli wheel.









The top view.









A side view to show the profile.









A lot more work than making a board, but I am happy with the result.

Next step is to apply a finish. In keeping with pushing my own envelope I am considering using walnut oil. I have a gallon someone gave to me last July. It may be time to start using this.

Thanks for looking.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks for the show and tell on your outside-the-box project! Sure looks nice and some of your problem solving techniques should help the rest of us as we encounter issues later.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Good skills Dave , the router put paid to that tearout in no short order :thumbsup:
It will be interesting to see what you do with it in the future


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

Dave that turned out beautiful!!!!
Im glad you listened to me and turned it:laughing::laughing:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for all the comments fellows. I did get a chuckle from JohnInTexas comment on the DNA.

I am happy if the tips help or inspire others.

Closing my thread. I took the platter to my local woodturning club meeting this week for the "Show and Tell" table. It was well received. A number of people stopped me at the end of meeting to say they really liked the platter.

The one tip I forgot to include before was from a member of the woodturning club. Sometimes it is easier to put the small sander pad with e.g., scalloped discs in a chuck on the lathe and hand hold the wood.

I was having a difficult time with sanding the underside of the wings. Rather rough from the turning. I remembered the tip, put the small disc sander in the chuck. It was a lot easier to sand the underside of the wings.

The final pictures after applying walnut oil.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Looks great Dave ... cant wait to see what you turn up next.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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