# Shop Fox / Grizzly ? VS Powermatic 2000



## SNash22 (Feb 16, 2015)

I had been sold on the PM 2000 but some recent discussions and research has me rethinking. Have read a lot of good things on grizzly. I think shop fox is also a grizzly but with white paint and maybe bigger wheels? I like the shop fox 1820, 3hp, 10", 50" rip. I can get it for about the same price as the smaller 1 3/4 hp powermatic. Thoughts on powermatic, grizzly and shop fox? I'm going to buy in the next couple days.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

I have a PM 66 that I bought new in the 80's.Never a bit of trouble with it.Still runs like new and was used all day every day for 12 years.I see the newer PM2000's with a 3hp motor and a 5hp motor for the same price.Don't see one with a 1 3//4 motor.It passed the nickel test then and still will today.
Mine was made in TN.Don't know about today.Lots of years have passed.


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## SNash22 (Feb 16, 2015)

Pm 1000 is the 1 3/4 hp saw. The 66 is probably one of the best ever, in my opinion. I have heard several talk about Powermatic living on its name and the older saws. Several have caught up and several can pass the nickel test.


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

Although I haven't used any of these saws, I have seen all three in person, for what that's worth. I thought Grizzly/Shop Fox would be like a Craftsman/Ryobi/Kobalt as far as build quality and what not, but I was shocked at how sturdy and well put together they seemed to be. I had almost taken Grizzly off my list but after visiting their Bellingham showroom, I'm certainly giving them a second look. Same with Shop Fox. 

I'm extremely impressed with Powermatic also (their drill press can be easily configured for a lefty like me, for example), but I don't see where the extra money goes. 

As I said, I haven't used these saws, but my first impressions were good. If only Grizzly would start painting tier stuff something other than that God-awful green...


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

The PM2000 is a top tier industrial cabinet saw, and sells at a premium price. The Grizzly G0690 and G1023RL are what I'd consider the best values in that class of saw. The Shop Fox equivalent is pretty similar, but has a slightly different cabinet design and a longer warranty. For the difference in price with the PM2000, you get a 30" deep table vs 27", plus built in wheels...the fit and finish on the PM "might" be better (its subjective). The fences are functionally equivalent, but the handle and paint on the PM fence might be a tad smoother, the bearings, switch, motor, and some other subtle things might be a little "nicer". PM has historically used a process in the cast iron known as Meehanite that improves the strength and density of cast iron....I don't know if they still use that process now that it's made in Asia. 

Note that the PM1000 looks to be a nice saw, and looks similar to a PM2000, but it's not just a smaller version of the same design. The underpinnings are much more robust on the PM2000 and other true industrial style cabinet saws. The guts of the PM1000 are more similar to the better hybrid saws. It may have some of the same fit and finish advantages of a PM2000, but is a step down in class from the G0690, G1023RL, and SF W1820. 

I can't argue with your sentiments of the PM2000. I felt the same way about a General 650 for years. I can offer my opinion that if you're going to spend close to $3K for a saw, I think it'd be sort of silly to pass up the safety feature on a Saw Stop PCS 3hp....it's also a very nice Asian made cabinet saw with a great fence option, but has an undeniable advantage over other saws near it's price range....it won't amputate you in the event of an accident. 

If the $3K budget makes you wince, but you still want the benefits of a solid 3hp industrial cabinet saw, it's hard to argue with what you get from Grizzly for close to half the price...you just have to be willing to be your own middleman, and have to be comfortable with a 1 year warranty. 

*PM2000:*

















*G0691/W1820:*









*G1023RL:*

















*PM1000:*









As a comparison to the PM1000, below are diagrams/pics of the Jet Proshop, Laguna Fusion, and Baleigh hybrids...all pretty similar to the PM1000:


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## SNash22 (Feb 16, 2015)

Thank you, very informative. What is the relationship between shop fox and grizzly? The saw stop is great, no argument here. I have a friend, cabinet maker, that has one. The only reservation is I cut a lot of barn wood and reclaimed lumber. My friends has had his saw stop for about a year and has had to buy four replacent parts due to saw stop activating on something other than his finger. Have been told that I would need to deactivate it anytime I'm cutting this old lumber, which is most of the time.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

Grizzly and Shop Fox are both owned by the same guy...Shiraz Balolia, who also owns Woodstock International, Steelex, and a few other minor brands.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

shop fox is also the part of the Balolia world that sells through a dealer network and offers a longer warranty. same products under the surface as grizzly.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I bought the Grizzly 1023RLW Christmas 2012. No problems encountered. Turn it on, use it. Turn it off. It will probably outlive me, and someone else.

Four day delivery and the driver put it in my garage. Note: I paid the tailgate fee. He used his pallet jack; he pulled, I pushed and up the gradual driveway incline we went. He didn't stop until it was inside the garage. Yeah, I gave him a tip. Shipping weight - 452#. 

As you can see in the pictures, I don't have room for the wide fence capacity. However, I did relocate the existing fence ten inches to the right to give me a rip capacity of 37 inches. :thumbsup:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

From what I can see in some of the pictures the flat drive belts would be a deal killer for me. I wouldn't have em. As dusty as the environment inside the saw is it wouldn't be long before it would be slipping. Then it seems like in recent years it's getting all too common for tool manufacturers to quit selling parts for the products they make and you couldn't get a belt at your local auto parts store. I would hate for the saw to be down for weeks while tracking down a drive belt.


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## SNash22 (Feb 16, 2015)

Great point Steve. I wonder if anyone has had that problem?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

My saw has a flat drive belt and hasn't had a problem in the 3 years I've had it. Mine doesn't have a shroud around the blade either so it's far dustier in mine than that would be.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

SNash22 said:


> I had been sold on the PM 2000 but some recent discussions and research has me rethinking. Have read a lot of good things on grizzly. I think shop fox is also a grizzly but with white paint and maybe bigger wheels? I like the shop fox 1820, 3hp, 10", 50" rip. I can get it for about the same price as the smaller 1 3/4 hp powermatic. Thoughts on powermatic, grizzly and shop fox? I'm going to buy in the next couple days.


They all work the same. It's only how much you want to spend.


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

I think you can buy those belts at the local auto parts store. I know you can for my old Craftsman.

HJ

Keeps xtra belts -- that way I won't need em


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## landruma (Jul 28, 2016)

Steve Neul said:


> From what I can see in some of the pictures the flat drive belts would be a deal killer for me. I wouldn't have em. As dusty as the environment inside the saw is it wouldn't be long before it would be slipping. Then it seems like in recent years it's getting all too common for tool manufacturers to quit selling parts for the products they make and you couldn't get a belt at your local auto parts store. I would hate for the saw to be down for weeks while tracking down a drive belt.


Buy an extra to keep available. Kind of a simple solution.


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