# Separators



## Bleedinblue (Mar 4, 2014)

I've had my Rockler brand separator for a few months now and I've found it is somewhat disappointing, but OK for general/light use. I edge and face jointed about a hundred BF of walnut last week and it separated I'd say about 60-70%...a bit disappointing in it's first big task, but liveable. Today though, planing that same walnut and getting only about half way done, I checked and found this:



















That's maybe what, 50%? I'm surprised the shop vac had ANY suction. I'm VERY disappointed now. :thumbdown:

Is a Dust Deputy or any other brand any better? I know I could build my own, but I hate piecing together hardware and vacuum connections.

For what it's worth, I have no dust collector and no intentions of getting one soon. The shop vac is usually adequate for now...but maybe the air velocity is too much for the separator?


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

Put in a Thein baffle. The link shows a big one but you can scale it down to fit. What the baffle does is allow the chips and dust to settle out and drop below the baffle. What's happening in your separator is the air flow is scrubbing the top of the chip pile. The baffle stops that. It's cheap, give it a try and if that doesn't work go get a DD.

By the way, you do have to empty the separator occasionally as it doesn't make the chips and dust just disappear. :smile:


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

If you let the separator fill up past the point the chips fall down, they'll just continue with the air flow and end up in the collector. 

The chip separator works because there is a low pressure space that the chips will fall into, once that space fills up, they can't fall. 

Empty it more often and this problem will go away


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Its very possible you stalled the circulation in the separator. If you try to put too much through at once, the air isnt moving fast enough to keep the cyclone going to separate the chips, so everything goes straight to the vacuum. The amount of chips thrown off by a jointer, I'd wager that's what happened. Ive also heard that a cyclone style seperator needs some empty space in the collection bucket to work well, but I can't really verify that.

Personally, I'd go one of two ways. You could either build a thien baffle seperator or upgrade to a bigger dust collector/cyclone combination. The thien baffle seperator I believe requires less air flow to be effective. I say that because ive never managed to stall the air flow in mine, despite occasionally jamming the hose in a giant pile of shavings. A bigfere cyclone would let more air through, meaning it would take more to stall the air flow, but you'd have to upgrade to a bigger suction device to keep up the air flow


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## Bleedinblue (Mar 4, 2014)

PhilBa said:


> Put in a Thein baffle. The link shows a big one but you can scale it down to fit. What the baffle does is allow the chips and dust to settle out and drop below the baffle. What's happening in your separator is the air flow is scrubbing the top of the chip pile. The baffle stops that. It's cheap, give it a try and if that doesn't work go get a DD.
> 
> By the way, you do have to empty the separator occasionally as it doesn't make the chips and dust just disappear. :smile:


Before I read this I was thinking about how to rig a baffle to fit inside the Dust Right. :thumbsup:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I think the problem is you needed to empty it more often.


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## Bleedinblue (Mar 4, 2014)

I did as I finished the rest of the planing and it did help some.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

Build a Thien style separator and you will be amazed at the efficiency, and will cost you a lot less than what you now have even if you have to buy all the materials. :thumbsup:


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## Paul_R (Nov 26, 2014)

My Dust deputy probably dumps close to 99% of everything into the bucket until the bucket gets about 3"-4" from the top then it starts blowing by. I've been pretty impressed. I just bought a square 28 gallon bin because I get tired of having to dump the bucket so often.


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm not gong to speculate your cause, but I will explain my similar situation. I have the 6.5 Ridgid shop vac, which looks similar to yours. I purchased the dust deputy and placed it on top of a 50 gallon barrel. I found my shop vac was still sucking up lots of waste that I thought should drop out. I found out the pr oboes was that my shop vac was so strong that it was sucking up the waste as it was trying to drop out. You could try a "wimpish" shop vac. Also, I suggest putting in a sight window on your collection container and emptying it around 50%.

Mark


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I have a DD and it catches almost all of the dust. If you fill the barrel too full any separator doesn't work. You need to empty more often or get a bigger barrel.


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## Bleedinblue (Mar 4, 2014)

Burb said:


> I'm not gong to speculate your cause, but I will explain my similar situation. I have the 6.5 Ridgid shop vac, which looks similar to yours. I purchased the dust deputy and placed it on top of a 50 gallon barrel. I found my shop vac was still sucking up lots of waste that I thought should drop out. I found out the pr oboes was that my shop vac was so strong that it was sucking up the waste as it was trying to drop out. You could try a "wimpish" shop vac. Also, I suggest putting in a sight window on your collection container and emptying it around 50%.
> 
> Mark


That's my vac, and I don't want a weaker one :laughing: When the filter isn't clogged, I LOVE this shop vac.



hwebb99 said:


> I have a DD and it catches almost all of the dust. If you fill the barrel too full any separator doesn't work. You need to empty more often or get a bigger barrel.


I think it's a combination of the strong vac and the DR barrel filling up quickly. Even when dumping the DR about half way the vac still accumulates a lot of dust/chips. 

I think a Thien is definitely in my future...probably on a 55 gallon trash can. I understand the concept of the Thien and it looks simple enough, I just don't get how I can make the lid air tight to sit on top of the trash can.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

You could buy another separator, and put a Y at both ends. That way each separator only handles half the suction, and you get double the chip capacity.


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## Paul_R (Nov 26, 2014)

The more flow the better those dust deputies or any other cyclone work. Velocity=spin and separation.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

Bleedinblue said:


> I think it's a combination of the strong vac and the DR barrel filling up quickly. Even when dumping the DR about half way the vac still accumulates a lot of dust/chips.


Yes, your "strong vac" is based on high velocity, low volume air flow. In order for a pre-separator to work at it's optimum the air flow has to decrease inside the pre-separator to let the particles drop into your collection barrel.

As has been mentioned, your cheapest improvement is to get a taller barrel with more volume and then empty it before the saw dust gets within a distance from the top determined by you with experimentation. 10 to 12" is a good place to start.




Bleedinblue said:


> I think a Thien is definitely in my future...probably on a 55 gallon trash can.


A Thien pre-separator will be a very good improvement, but you are going to have to size it for your shop vac air flow. You might want to shop for a good used dust collector or a new Harbor Freight Sales dust collector (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html) and build the pre-separator to work with it. (It looks like there is a 25% off coupon for 4/5/2015. That brings the price of the unit to $157.49. There are a lot of members on this forum that have a lot of praise for this unit.)



Bleedinblue said:


> I understand the concept of the Thien and it looks simple enough, I just don't get how I can make the lid air tight to sit on top of the trash can.


It starts with routing out a circular groove on the bottom of the pre-separator, that the top of the trash can fits into. Then add weather stripping, clamps and vacuum pressure from your dust collector.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Bleedinblue said:


> I understand the concept of the Thien and it looks simple enough, I just don't get how I can make the lid air tight to sit on top of the trash can.


Caulking and weather striping


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## Paul_R (Nov 26, 2014)

.....


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

For the lid on my metal garbage can separator for my DC, I made 2 disks from 1/2" plywood: one slightly bigger than the can top and one a little smaller that just fits inside it. I chamfered the smaller one b y about 1/4". I screwed them together and then lined the "rabbet" with some door weather stripping so that when I seated the lid, it sealed up tight. Cut inlet, outlet and suspended the baffle from it via threaded rods. When I turn on the DC, it tightens up and stays in. Works really well but requires a fair amount of tugging to get it off. No leaks that I can find. I do have several small leaks by the handles but the system works so well I haven't bothered.


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