# Tablesaw Inserts



## scott lindsay (Jun 22, 2010)

I have finally gotten brave enough to make inserts for my table saw. My first one is made of hardboard 1/4" thick. It fits nice for being my first one but it sticks up maybe a 1/16". I tried to sand the hardboard but it does not sand easy. Any suggestions on reducing the hardboard? Should I just keep sanding it? My tablesaw is an outdated cast iron saw, in very good shape, and I am using a Craftsman Bench Top Sander.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Photos? Can you just thin the edge on the underside where it sets on the lip and not try to thin the entire insert?

David


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## scott lindsay (Jun 22, 2010)

difalkner said:


> Photos? Can you just thin the edge on the underside where it sets on the lip and not try to thin the entire insert?
> 
> David


David, I probably could do that. The Sears model has 6 resting points. Can I use a chisel on hardboard? Wait, I am thinking maybe a Dremel with a grinding stone or something close might work. I will try that or maybe find some 1/4" plywood and that should sand easier. I am new to woodworking so I have very limited tools.

-Scott


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You can use the table saw....?*



scott67 said:


> I have finally gotten brave enough to make inserts for my table saw. My first one is made of hardboard 1/4" thick. It fits nice for being my first one but it sticks up maybe a 1/16". I tried to sand the hardboard but it does not sand easy. Any suggestions on reducing the hardboard? Should I just keep sanding it? My tablesaw is an outdated cast iron saw, in very good shape, and I am using a Craftsman Bench Top Sander.



OK, make your rough blank the shape of the insert on the bandsaw or using a jig saw. Make several! Now, raise the blade of the saw up so it removes the desired amount of material off the bottom. Now set the fence over to 3/8" from the blade or the amount of the shelf you want and then make a series of cuts all the way around the shape. Now, decrease the distance to the blade and make more cuts, being careful to not cut into the fence. If you are concerned about that, use a long 3/4" X 3" piece of wood taped to the fence so you won't damage it, also called a "sacrifical fence". This will create a nice lip all the way around so your plate will sit flush with the top surface.
Some hand work may be necessary to get it smooth. The issue will be threading something that thin won't work. You would be better off to drill and thread the bosses in the table for the leveling set screws.
OR to use dabs of Bondo on the back of the plate which is pressed down flush until it sets up.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

scott67 said:


> David, I probably could do that. The Sears model has 6 resting points. Can I use a chisel on hardboard? Wait, I am thinking maybe a Dremel with a grinding stone or something close might work. I will try that or maybe find some 1/4" plywood and that should sand easier. I am new to woodworking so I have very limited tools.
> 
> -Scott


Yes, you can use a _sharp _chisel on hardboard. You can also recess where the resting points are by using a Forstner bit. A Dremel would work, as well.

David


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Insert plates for my Bosch REAXX table saw are very expensive. They cost over $50 each. I decided to make my own. My zero clearance insert plates are slightly thinner than the insert space itself. Just like the Bosch-made original insert plates, I used set screws to adjust the height of the plate around the edges to match perfectly with the table saw's table. See steps 7 and 8 in this procedure here:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/bosch-reaxx-table-saw-make-your-own-zero-clearance-insert-196969/

Would set screws work for you? If set screws will do the job, then I would ask if you have a dado blade? If so, use it in several passes to thin your insert plate just enough that it is barely below the level of the table saw table itself. Drill holes for the set screws over the insert supports, use the Allen wrench to screw in the set screws until they just touch their supports, and then adjust each set screw until the plate is level with the table saw table. Some people adjust their inserts so that it is _very_ slightly below the table in the front, and very slightly above in the rear, so that boards won't bind up as they pass, but I try to make mine perfectly level.


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## bargoon (Apr 20, 2016)

It might be easier to start over with thinner stock.

Here's how I make inserts for my Delta saw - the basics should work for other brands.

- use stock slightly thinner than original insert. use original insert to rout new blank, test fit.
- drill & counter sink for leveling screws in same spots as original, grind off tip of flat head wood screws and will be used to level 
insert
- cut the pointy end off a large nail and insert into end of blank at same spot as original, leave appropriate amount sticking out - 
this is to prevent the insert from lifting out of the saw.
- put a blade in the saw, move fence over to edge of blank (make sure the blade will clear the fence), SLOWLY raise the spinning 
blade to max height to cut slot in blank. If using full size blade you may have to make a preliminary groove on the underside 
with a router or dado set 

I've made inserts for thin kerf ripping blades, various widths of dado sets, and a molding head.

Cheers


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

I made mine for my old craftsman motorized version, but one of the crappy design features was they had to be 1/8th inch thick or less which doesn't really support anything heavier than a q-tip so they were always bowing inward just ever so slightly.. So...I bought a few phenolic inserts (hard plastic actually) from ptreeusa.com for 17 bucks and the problem solved, but one of these days I'm gonna get a better mousetrap model saw..
I had a one of a kind little screw to hold it down, but lost it. Probably some alien thread count that came to earth from a meteor and landed somehow in my box of screws, but oh well..


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## scott lindsay (Jun 22, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> OK, make your rough blank the shape of the insert on the bandsaw or using a jig saw. Make several! Now, raise the blade of the saw up so it removes the desired amount of material off the bottom. Now set the fence over to 3/8" from the blade or the amount of the shelf you want and then make a series of cuts all the way around the shape. Now, decrease the distance to the blade and make more cuts, being careful to not cut into the fence. If you are concerned about that, use a long 3/4" X 3" piece of wood taped to the fence so you won't damage it, also called a "sacrifical fence". This will create a nice lip all the way around so your plate will sit flush with the top surface.
> Some hand work may be necessary to get it smooth. The issue will be threading something that thin won't work. You would be better off to drill and thread the bosses in the table for the leveling set screws.
> OR to use dabs of Bondo on the back of the plate which is pressed down flush until it sets up.


I will definitely try that. 

Before reading I got some 1/4" plywood which either the hardboard is more than 1/4" or the plywood is less than 1/4" because the 1/4" plywood works better. Instead of being 1/16" above the surface it is 1/16" or less below the surface. I am wondering if masking tape will increase it so it is level or may be hot glue.


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

scott67 said:


> I will definitely try that.
> 
> Before reading I got some 1/4" plywood which either the hardboard is more than 1/4" or the plywood is less than 1/4" because the 1/4" plywood works better. Instead of being 1/16" above the surface it is 1/16" or less below the surface. I am wondering if masking tape will increase it so it is level or may be hot glue.


Here is a thread for step by step instructions on making Zero Clearance Inserts.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/making-zero-clearance-insert-table-saw-90026/

Eric


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

Hey Bobby, you can go to the hardware store and get 6 small set screws and drill small holes in your plate. You then screw the set screws into the plate and raise the plate up to the level of your table. Your plate needs to be thinner than you need so you can raise it up instead of sanding it thinner.


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## OldDon (Feb 19, 2018)

Looks like your TS is about the same as my old Craftsman. While you can buy ($$) ready made zero clearance blanks from Leecraft, using 1/4" plywood works just fine too. Most plywood these days is really metric and so under size which is why it is 1/16" under. To make up the thickness you can glue shims to the underside or try setscrews. I found that setscrews were a PITA to get right. But that's just me.


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## scott lindsay (Jun 22, 2010)

OldDon said:


> Looks like your TS is about the same as my old Craftsman. While you can buy ($$) ready made zero clearance blanks from Leecraft, using 1/4" plywood works just fine too. Most plywood these days is really metric and so under size which is why it is 1/16" under. To make up the thickness you can glue shims to the underside or try setscrews. I found that setscrews were a PITA to get right. But that's just me.


I think I am going to try the shim idea first. Not sure how set screws would work in wood without having some type of metal sleeve. I would think after a couple of adjustments the threads would eventually strip.


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## bargoon (Apr 20, 2016)

I use four no.8 in counter-sunk holes to level my inserts. Just grind off the excess and make the tip flat. Also us a cut off nail in the back to prevent the insert from flipping out of the table saw.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

scott67 said:


> I think I am going to try the shim idea first. Not sure how set screws would work in wood without having some type of metal sleeve. I would think after a couple of adjustments the threads would eventually strip.


It does not happen for me. Frankly, once the set screws are adjusted, it is hard to imagine needing to readjust them, but I suppose it is possible with wood expansion/contraction. Even with frequent tweaks, I doubt that the set screws will strip out. How much downward or upward force are you expecting on those set screws? It should be low. 

My own procedure uses set screws, and they work well for me:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/bosch-reaxx-table-saw-make-your-own-zero-clearance-insert-196969/


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Insert plates for my Bosch REAXX table saw are very expensive. They cost over $50 each..



I would happily pay $50 to have a pre made machine fabricated throat plate for my table saw. But I can't find them anywhere.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*sent you a PM*



Mad said:


> I would happily pay $50 to have a pre made machine fabricated throat plate for my table saw. But I can't find them anywhere.



I checked my stash of zero clearance plates and found part no. 953 from:
https://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_zero_clearance.html
The 954 is the longer version for older saws, pre 1988 at 14 3/8". Don't expect the CS at ptree to know which one fits your saw, there's just too many of them. Even the 12" saw plates are not all the same! I have two 10" tables bolted into the Sawzilla and they aren't the same either. :surprise2: 

Best short term solution:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/make-zero-clearance-throat-plate-insert-10147/

I had also made my own from the OEM metal plate by adding a narrow rounded end insert into the metal plate... about 1/2" X 12" or so X 3/16" thick. Then I had hot glued a 1/2" thick X 1 1/2" backer to that. No need to get a new zero clearance plate.:vs_cool:


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## andr0id (Jan 11, 2018)

I use hot glue now like in this video. It works great.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

I should have been more clear. I need new throat plates period, not just ZCI. I installed blade washers that shifted the blade over to where the original throat plate slot no longer aligns with the new blade track.


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## OldDon (Feb 19, 2018)

Here's a link to a page that has the Leecraft zero inserts pictured. Don't know if any match anybody's needs, but as they say a picture is worth a 1000 something or others. Clicking on a brand give details of the available inserts.



http://leecraftzeroclearance.com/


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have a bunch of throat plates!*



woodnthings said:


> I checked my stash of zero clearance plates and found part no. 953 from:
> https://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_zero_clearance.html
> The 954 is the longer version for older saws, pre 1988 at 14 3/8". Don't expect the CS at ptree to know which one fits your saw, there's just too many of them. Even the 12" saw plates are not all the same! I have two 10" tables bolted into the Sawzilla and they aren't the same either. :surprise2:
> 
> ...



Turns out I have to label them to keep them all sorted out. Some 12" plates fit the 10" saws because all they did was put a 220 V motor under the same table :surprise2: @*Mad*:
I did acquire an older 12" saw that has the same casting bosses as the ones in your PM. I thought I would share the photos I took so all could see them on the forum.

The ZCI's I got from www.ptreeusa came in two sizes and thickness. The older Craftsman ones are thinner around the perimeter, about 3/16". The other version is for a 10" Hybrid Craftsman and it is almost 1/2" Thick. The length and width dimensions are in the photo and are smaller than the older Craftsman ones. Your bad experience with the phenolic dust may have you using the UHM ones which are totally clean to rout on.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Is the last photo of Peach Tree inserts still in their packaging exactly what you would use in the Sawzilla "extra table" in the 3rd and 4th photo that matches mine?


If yes, then can you please type out the part number? Is it 953? Or 4131? 


I can't make anything out on the label in the 5th photo. It is too fuzzy... like a peach! Guess that's why they call it Peach tree?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That number won't matter*



Mad said:


> Is the last photo of Peach Tree inserts still in their packaging exactly what you would use in the Sawzilla "extra table" in the 3rd and 4th photo that matches mine?
> 
> 
> If yes, then can you please type out the part number? Is it 953? Or 4131?
> ...



It won't work anyway, too short. You will have to look through all these based on length and width, then thickness.
https://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_zero_clearance.html
I wrote those dimensions on the table in the photo. You need one that need not necessarily be that thick IF it can be supported by the inner most level in the casting near the top surface. Below that don't matter... No need to accommodate for all that goofyness... as long as the set screws will rest on something flat and solid.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*So, here's what I found ....*

I had some 953 inserts from Fulton/peachtree and tried them in the extra saw table with the goofy casting bosses. It will fit exactly length and width and depth, but not all the way down on the goofy bosses.. Who Cares? Mine are a few years old and have a very slight convex surface up. I could see if I can get the warp out for my own peace of mind. If you wanted a "no rout" fit this is what I recommend you get.
 


 
You will have to secure them down when raising the blade under power of course . The fence or weights on the left side about 1 1/2" from the left edge should work. Use a heavy wooden plank, nothing metal near the blade. One of the red painted inserts also fit that goofy table, but I'm keepin' that one. The other painted red ones will work on Sawzilla, if needed. Hope this helps you out. :vs_cool:


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## tangolima (May 9, 2018)

I make zero clearance insert out of hardwood. Use the existing insert as a template, and mill it out with flush trimming router bit. It works just fine.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Bill, how did you do the relief cut that fits into the pocket of this dado throat plate? 


Can you show the back side of it (to reveal how much wood meat is beneath the metal), and talk about how you made the 1/8" - 3/16" thick rectangle that protrudes through the original metal dado opening and is flush with the top of the metal plate?


And thanks for your ideas in PM too!


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

tangolima said:


> I make zero clearance insert out of hardwood. Use the existing insert as a template, and mill it out with flush trimming router bit. It works just fine.


 


I had a very hard time using a router to mill the underside of a phenolic throat plate blank. It wasn't the perimeter radius, length, or width that needed milling in my case. It was the undulations below the plate's seating deck, since the blank that I obtained was deep enough to collide with the below deck interferences in the casting that Bill illustrates in his photos above that say "This is yours!", where "yours" refers to the challenges I had in replicating a 3D pattern without the ability to ride a roller bearing on any edge for guidance.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

I started to edit the previous post, but too much time passed, so now am adding fresh addendum to post the photos I sent to Bill. 


I sent them to Bill because I knew he had a saw like mine, and wanted the benefit of how he solved the issue. Turns out, he solved it by switching tables. But he had lots of great suggestions, as he always does for any and everyone on this forum, about how to make a template.


First, I already have a negative template... or an inverse template... which is the table itself. This is the shape I needed to conform locally sourced ZCI blanks to. (Local source = Rockler store nearby)
























I don't know how to use a trim router bit to transfer the interior pattern that is BELOW the perimeter seat for the throat plate. While I realize that the perimeter seat is adequate to support a ZCI, since it is all that supports the original flat metal plate, I still had to clearance the Rockler ZCI blank to fit within the protrusions below the perimeter seat due to the thickness of the Rockler blank.


Ideally, I wanted an interference fit within the protrusions below deck, since the phenolic plastic ZCI weighs a lot less than the steel plate that it replaces, and the lighter the throat plate, the more likely the throat plate can be unseated. Since the phenolic ZCI was much thicker, I wanted to take advantage of that thickness and* shape the bottom side so that it would lock in edge to edge with the below deck formation*, which would contribute to the throat plate staying put, since there are no retention screws or clips that would otherwise hold it in place, unlike the original metal plate that is retained by two spring clips, as well as it's heavier metal mass.


But alas, my inexperience with milling and replicating 3d patterns such as this has been a hurdle that I have not yet been able to overcome, so I welcome any advice about how to replicate that shape.


One idea Bill mentioned was to make a positive template out of bondo, by first masking off the surrounding area, and then applying a release agent to all the undulations that I want to replicate, and a temporary bottom to hold whatever epoxy I make the positive pattern out of in place until it cures. Then, hopefully the release agent (silicone, saran wrap, something) will permit a clean removal of the "false" positive when cured, which I would then do what with?


Place upside down on a work surface, clamp in place... then? I just don't know how I would transfer that pattern to a piece of hardwood or another piece of phenolic. It seems like sandwiching them together for the trim router to do it's job with the bearing riding on the pattern and the cutter riding on the material to be cut wouldn't work, because the edge is layered and complex, and the rise of each rabbit layer is as important as the run. So I can't get my mind around how to make it happen... but again, I welcome any and all instruction.


Left to my own devices, the only way I could come up with was free handing with an end cutter (for making dados) on my only router, which has a base way too big for this kind of work. The base didn't have much to ride on when working the edges at only a limited depth, and half the base of the router was unsupported, leading to my fighting to keep the larger router level, while still free handing the cut. The results were not pretty.






















I would have liked to have done better. Much better. The insert now fits OK, without riding high on the below deck protrusions before making full contact with the perimeter seat, but I did not achieve the below deck interference fit with those protrusions that I originally wanted. My router was too big (1613EVS) for my inexperienced hands to control entirely freehand with no pilot bearing (because there was no edge that the pilot bearing could act on, as the cuts were only partial depth.


As it sits now: 














Since I need to make two more of these (one to clear all bevels up to 45 degrees, and another for dado work), it would be a relief if I could find an easier solution or make better renditions the second and third time around.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*What I am suggesting is ....*



woodnthings said:


> *You need one that need not necessarily be that thick IF it can be supported by the inner most level in the casting near the top surface. Below that don't matter... No need to accommodate for all that goofyness... as long as the set screws will rest on something flat and solid.*





woodnthings said:


> *I had some 953 inserts from Fulton/peachtree and tried them in the extra saw table with the goofy casting bosses. It will fit exactly length and width and depth, but not all the way down on the goofy bosses.. Who Cares*? Mine are a few years old and have a very slight convex surface up. I could see if I can get the warp out for my own peace of mind.* If you wanted a "no rout" fit this is what I recommend you get.
> *
> . :vs_cool:


*The 953 inserts are thinner than your phenolic ones from Rockler.* They don't need to fit into the next level of casting bosses and because they are thinner, they won't. Sounds like it's too simple to work, but I believe it will. :surprise2:

As far as routing your inserts to accurately fit the "goofy bosses" down at the second level, I suggest making an exact male positive using Bondo *so you can see what needs to be removed*. I don't know how I would use a flush trim bit to do that, so eyeball to a measured line is what I would do. I suggested making a router support surround from a large piece of thick plywood with a hole sized to drop the phenolic insert into. This will eliminate trying to support the weight of a heavy router resting only on a thin edge.... not possible for accurate work. The plywood thickness needs to be the same as the phenolic insert.


OK, I just thought of a way without the CNC. The male positive is inserted into the plywood support so the surfaces are flush. You then trace around the plug using your router base and a pencil to mark the outside profile on a piece of paper taped to the plywood. That becomes the shape of your next level of plywood as a template resting on the top of your support. It may not be perfect, but may be better than "eyeball to a line" ....? 


Of course, if you have the male positive plug you could take it to a *CNC router and have them make your phenolic inserts to fit*. Once they have the program setup, it will be easy and cheap to make any new ones. There are folks here that can do this.... any volunteers? :vs_OMG:

Another approach! Using the same idea as above, a piece of paper taped to your saw table, extend the bit or use a same diameter wood dowel, so it will trace the "goofy bosses" in the casting onto the paper. You now have a paper template from which you can cut out the female shape in some thin plywood and use your router with a guide bushing or flush trim bit to duplicate the second level of casting bosses. 

Ok, I'm done now.... zzzzzzzzzzz:bangin::yes::sleep1:


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

*Phenomenal* creativity! Your mind is like the fountain of youth... full of vim and vigor, brimming with ideas and hope. Thank you for all of the suggestions.


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