# table saw and 8/4 wood



## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

I have an older Jet contractor saw. The saw works great for the most part, but I have a horrible time cutting 8/4 wood, especially when ripping it. The problem is that once the wood passes the blade it has a tendency to close back up on the blade and I end up tripping the breaker on the motor. This make cutting the wood every difficult, time consuming, and I'm sure not very safe or good for the motor.... 

What are some good solutions?


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## NYwoodworks (Sep 19, 2010)

First let me ask what kind of blade are you using and what kind of wood are you cutting?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*No splitter?*

That condition, closing back up after the cut, is what a splitter is meant to prevent. I'm sure you know what one is ..plenty of discussion here yesterday. I'lI find a photo. :thumbsup: bill
If you can't "find" yours have a helper insert a thin wedge in the kerf as you rip the board to keep the kerf from closing up.









The black metal blade behind the saw blade is my splitter, and it has anti-kickback pawls like the photo above. Sometimes I wedge these up out of the way if I know I might want to back the work out like when making a slot. Splitters are just a tad thinner than the saw kerf otherwise they would bind in the kerf.



Just some more info on ripping, wood from trees pine oak, maple etc is sometimes under internal stress and when you cut into it it may want to open or close after the cut. Man made wood like particle board, plywood etc has no internal stresses like that, so you can cut them without a splitter. 
However, the splitter will prevent a panel from twisting and a kickback as it ride up on the rotating blade. USE ONE when possible, except for slots and dadoes. JMO  bill


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## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

NYwoodworks said:


> First let me ask what kind of blade are you using and what kind of wood are you cutting?


I'm using a combination blade from Freud... don't remember which one, but it was expensive. Most recently i've cut Maple and Jatoba.


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## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> That condition, closing back up after the cut, is what a splitter is meant to prevent. I'm sure you know what one is ..plenty of discussion here yesterday. I'lI find a photo. :thumbsup: bill



I was looking at those. Are they hard to take off for dadoing and such?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Dvoigt said:


> I'm using a combination blade from Freud... don't remember which one, but it was expensive. Most recently i've cut Maple and Jatoba.



No combination blade is meant for that thick of wood. especially ripping. I second the splitter.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Taking them off... easy*

Right on richard, too many teeth, not enough gullet, heats up can't clear out the dust ...etc.:thumbsup:

Usually loosen 2 bolts. Realigning them parallel with the blade PITA depending on the saw. Newer saws have quick remove splitters and guards. I just lay a parallel metal strip down between the blade and fence then tighten it up. Mine is accessible from the back of the saw, but all saws are different. This 12" Powermatic has one bolt under the throat plate and one at the rear. I just leave this one on ....usually. BTW it's a homemade version from aluminum plate.


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## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

rrbrown said:


> No combination blade is meant for that thick of wood. especially ripping. I second the splitter.


Well that may be, but changing the blade isn't going to solve the stalling problem right? I think I have some cheaper ripping blades that I can use.


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## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

I would not rip a piece of 8/4 white oak on a contractor's saw. I had a near miss doing that on a ridgid contractor's saw several years ago. The saw began to bog down and board started to rise on me as I tried to hold it down and reach for the OFF switch. Luckily, I got the saw off before kickback. Like an idiot, I didn't have my blade guard and splitter on. The guard and splitter didn't work well on my thin-kerf blade. Had to be very careful in aligning. I'm convinced that piece would have kicked back if I had tried to continue the cut.

Since then I've gotten a hybrid saw with slightly more power (1 3/4 hp) and better guard/splitter, but I will never, ever rip or cross-cut a board again without the splitter and guard. I will rip boards 5/4 or less on my saw. I might go with 6/4 but haven't. I have a 14" band saw that I rip thicker stock with, then clean it up on my power jointer or with a jointer plane. 

I'm sure others probably would (and have) rip this on a contractor's saw, but I would not. If you do, I would definitely use the guard/splitter, get a rip blade, pay attention, and know where the off switch is.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> Right on richard, too many teeth, not enough gullet, heats up can't clear out the dust ...etc.:thumbsup:
> 
> Usually loosen 2 bolts. Realigning them parallel with the blade PITA depending on the saw. Newer saws have quick remove splitters and guards. I just lay a parallel metal strip down between the blade and fence then tighten it up. Mine is accessible from the back of the saw, but all saws are different. This 12" Powermatic has one bolt under the throat plate and one at the rear. I just leave this one on ....usually. BTW it's a homemade version from aluminum plate.


My stars, how many saws do you have.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*HEH...Heh..*



jiju1943 said:


> My stars, how many saws do you have.


Someone's paying attention... Ole Jim? :yes: 
Table saws, RAS's, Circ Saws, Saber saw, Bandsaws? too many!
I'm addicted to tools I'm afraid. I've only parted out 1 table saw after 50 yrs of use. The table was a donor to the 84" twin.
So that's my story, stickin' to it.  bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Someone's paying attention... Ole Jim? :yes:
> Table saws, RAS's, Circ Saws, Saber saw, Bandsaws? too many!
> I'm addicted to tools I'm afraid. I've only parted out 1 table saw after 50 yrs of use. The table was a donor to the 84" twin.
> So that's my story, stickin' to it.  bill



I've been thinkin' about your twin. If your left saw is the primary one with the rail tape measure, what do you use the right one for? 











 





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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Dvoigt said:


> Well that may be, but changing the blade isn't going to solve the stalling problem right? I think I have some cheaper ripping blades that I can use.



Cheaper blades are not all that good most times. I have a Freud Premier Fusion that cost $100 (That might be the one you have). Great blade sharp as hell matter a fact it will cut your finger off before you know it happened , but ripping that thick of wood is beyond what it is meant for. So I bought the Freud Industrial heavy duty Rip blade ($35 on amazon) and I cut Lyptus (very Hard wood) 2 3/4 " thick like butter with that blade. However I do have a 3 hp cabinet saw, a good rip blade probably a thin kerf will cut better on your contractor saw.


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

Dvoigt,
Have you tried adusting the fence a few hairs (and I mean hairs) wide at the back of the blade?
Sometimes perfect is too perfect (every outstanding woodworker I know does this). 
If you do this, have a good blade, and proper amperage... you shouldn't have problems, with or without a splitter. If you do, there might be something else wrong with the saw.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I've been thinkin' about your twin. If your left saw is the primary one with the rail tape measure, what do you use the right one for?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was my next question also. I have never seen two saws set up like that, I wish I had thought of it.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

clarionflyer said:


> Dvoigt,
> *Have you tried adusting the fence a few hairs (and I mean hairs) wide at the back of the blade?
> Sometimes perfect is too perfect (every outstanding woodworker I know does this).
> If you do this, have a good blade, and proper amperage.*.. you shouldn't have problems, *with or without a splitter*. If you do, there might be something else wrong with the saw.


*I agree on adjusting the fence, proper blade, and maybe even the amperage even though the right blade and adjustments can make up for a smaller motor in some cases.*

*I'd have to disagree if the wood is pinching behind the blade. That is definitely the reason for a splitter or better yet a riving knife. If not your flirting with a kick back for sure and maybe worse.*


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> I've been thinkin' about your twin. If your left saw is the primary one with the rail tape measure, what do you use the right one for?


That was my next question also. I have never seen two saws set up like that, I wish I had thought of it. 

I've got a dado head in and a sacrificial fence for rabbets mostly. I'm wanting to build a sliding head panel saw for rabbeting wide panels for shelves...someday. Maybe this winter. 
The other thought is if one saw craps out, I have a back up.
Kinda like two guns are better than one empty one.  
The main advantage of course is for wider panels. I just got this idea about 30 years ago when Sears had a sale on 12" motorized saws, I think $499.99. They had terrible fences.
Other folks here have done the same thing. Usually a dedicated dado setup on one.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I'd definitely switch to a 24T FTG thin kerf blade for 8/4" on that saw. Something like the Freud LU87, Infinity 010-124, CMT 202.024.10, are good affordable choices that won't bog your motor as much. 

Also make sure the blade and splitter are well aligned with the miter slot, and that the fence is aligned with the miter slot. 

Your saw will have an easier time if the wood is flattened and straightened prior to ripping.

I've had pretty good success with thick materials on similar saws.


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## enggass (Sep 24, 2010)

woodnthings: What are those 'hold down thingys' I see you using in 2nd pic - post #3? What are they called and where can I find them? Sorry for the newbie terminology...
Steev


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That company is defunct now*



enggass said:


> woodnthings: What are those 'hold down thingys' I see you using in 2nd pic - post #3? What are they called and where can I find them? Sorry for the newbie terminology...Steev


They are kinda clever tho, spring loaded and canted in towards the fence and anti-kickback pawls so they don't rotate backwards. The new magnetic feather boards will accomplish much the same thing.
This is why I encourage folks who own aluminum top table saws to upgrade if at all possible exceptions being Job Site saws.
Grip Tite from www.Rockler.com
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2356&filter=griptite


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

*Gasoline on the fire*

Ripping 8/4 stock should not be difficult on a contractor saw. I did it many times on my old Jet Contractor model. Here is what you need.

1 - A 20 ampere circuit dedicated to the saw and wired with at leaset 12 gauge copper wire. This is not to say that you can't use the circuit for anything else just not while the saw is in use. If the circuit is 15 ampere, you ain't going to be happy.

2 - A good combination blade. Rather than mention brands, I'll talk tooth combinations. A 40 tooth blade arranged as 8 groups of 4 ATB teeth followed by a raker tooth. There should be a large gullet in front of the raker tooth. Forget about the general purpose blades that claim to be combination as they do not have large gullets and any raker teeth. 

3 - A splitter that MATCHES or is thinner than the kerf of the blade that you are using. (Most splitters are 1/8". A narrow kerf blade will cause the wood to bind on a 1/8" splitter.)

4 - Correct saw alignment. The saw MUST be in good alignment. If anything, the fence could be set 1 to 3 thousandenths wide at the rear.

5 - Patience! You can't fight the saw.

There are many brands of saw blades that do not have raker teeth in their blades that are sold as combination blades. Yes they will do the functions of cross cut and rip. Maybe they are a combination of functionality but a better name would be general purpose. A true combination blade has the ATB teeth cut the shoulders of the cut and then the raker tooth cleans out between the shoulders. 

As you are feeding wood through a combination vs. a general purpose blade, you can feel the difference. Well you saw can feel the difference too.

While having a blade sharpened I also bought a new combination blade. The shop manager asked; "40 or 50 teeth" and "Good or better". When he brought the blade out of stock, it was a rather pleasant surprise. Four ATB and a raker in 8 groups. I have been to many woodworking shows where manufacturers will try to pass off a general purpose blade as a combination blade.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Cutting 8/4 stock on a contractor saw is very common. I use a full kerf carbide tipped blade either a 24T or a 32T, not a combination blade. If the stock is long arrange an infeed and outfeed support. 

I don't toe out the fence, as IMO, that's starting off with a problem. As for any measurements in the "thousandths", my opinion is that this is woodworking not tool and die making. I have gauges that can check dimensions in the thousandths, but don't use them. Granted, it may make some difference in some very intricate work. 

Splitters and riving knives can be a help. When wood is cut, it can "move", or "walk" in any direction. Don't think just because you have a splitter or riving knife that you can't have a problem. Wood can bind on them. The trick to safe and effective tablesaw use is to be aware of the possibilities that exist that could be problematic. 

Being aware entails many sensory perceptions, such as an inordinate change in the feed rate, sounds of the cut, and including what the saw sounds like. A calm and definitive reaction to any problem will most likely render a safe resolution to a problem. Many kickback, or finger/hand injuries are caused by operator reaction to a situation, or lack of it.












 





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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

" 2 - A good combination blade. Rather than mention brands, I'll talk tooth combinations. A 40 tooth blade arranged as 8 groups of 4 ATB teeth followed by a raker tooth. There should be a large gullet in front of the raker tooth. Forget about the general purpose blades that claim to be combination as they do not have large gullets and any raker teeth."

This is the blade I used and it was one of my favorite blades, I was ripping on a cabinet saw not a contractor saw but I know this blade would do the trick on the contractor saw also. Thanks Rich.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I agree, I do it all the time on my Ridgid TS3660. I use a 24T Ripping blade. I have a Freud Avanti that I use and it works great in 8/4 red or white oak. I always use the splitter when ripping.


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## AlWood (Apr 18, 2010)

Dvoigt said:


> I have an older Jet contractor saw. The saw works great for the most part, but I have a horrible time cutting 8/4 wood, especially when ripping it. The problem is that once the wood passes the blade it has a tendency to close back up on the blade and I end up tripping the breaker on the motor. This make cutting the wood every difficult, time consuming, and I'm sure not very safe or good for the motor....
> 
> What are some good solutions?


A splitter or guard is a must, all the folks are right on that. However, if (1) the board is thick like yours, (2) the wood is tough (like white oak) or tricky and treacherous (like maple!!!), (3) I cannot locate that damn guard or splitter, and (4) the saw is a bit underpowered,

but I need a quick and safe solution, this what I do:

rise the blade (no more than 30 teets!) to slightly more than the half board thickness and make a blind cut (or even a quater thicknes and then half thickness). When finished, flip the board and make another blind cut from another side. The result may be not precise matching, but not to worry: once I make the full cut, I can rise now the blade to a full board thickness plus the depdts of gulley, and shave off about 1/16" or even 1/32" of the board. That's it.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

jiju1943 said:


> " 2 - A good combination blade. Rather than mention brands, I'll talk tooth combinations. A 40 tooth blade arranged as 8 groups of 4 ATB teeth followed by a raker tooth. There should be a large gullet in front of the raker tooth. Forget about the general purpose blades that claim to be combination as they do not have large gullets and any raker teeth."
> 
> This is the blade I used and it was one of my favorite blades, I was ripping on a cabinet saw not a contractor saw but I know this blade would do the trick on the contractor saw also. Thanks Rich.


Some 50T ATB/R blades rip more efficiently in certain circumstances and certain types of material, but sometimes a 40T ATB blade works better. I haven't noticed one clearly having a ripping advantage over the other. It really depends on more than the blade type. Ripping speed of an individual blade is dependent on several factors that includes gullet size, kerf width, hook angle, side clearance, shoulder size, tangential clearance angle, tooth grind, tooth geometry, etc, and those vary with each blade. Blade height is a factor too. Average gullet size is dependent on the available area of the circumference of the blade minus the space taken by the shoulders of the teeth. Larger gullet space is an advantage for efficient ripping, but adding more space on every 5th raker tooth of a 50T ATB/R inherently takes gullet size away from area between the 5 tooth clusters, so it's not an absolute advantage in every circumstance. Though both types are capable of ripping 8/4" stock in some situations, both are generally not ideal for that task due to the added heat and drag compared to a bulk ripping blade. 

A blade designed for ripping with fewer teeth, an efficient tooth grind, large side clearance, and steep hook angle will tend to rip more efficiently, but with a rougher cut. A contractor saw will definitely struggle more with a higher tooth blade in thick material.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

A newbie weighs in... since I have an old aluminum topped saw and not a lot of cash to upgrade and buy gizmos, I'm using a shopmade feather board clamped to my tall auxillary fence as a holddown and another clamped to the table for almost every rip. It slows me down, and that's just fine with me working with the finger eating tablesaw.


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