# Thinning BM Advance for HVLP



## thewoodseed (Apr 7, 2014)

I just bought a FUJI minimite 4 stage turbine and i am having trouble with spraying BM Advance. I have tried thinning up to 20% but i still have large particle splattering overspray. I have tried nozzle sizes from 1.3mm to 2.0mm. the viscosity is really high. passing through the #4 (@20% thinning) is just over 1 minute. tried thinning to about 35-40% and sprays perfectly...QUESTION is...is it ok to thin this much? Any other paths to try?


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## Trav (May 30, 2011)

Learn to use the viscosity cup that came with the gun. I have the same hvlp gun and had similar issues until I understood how to use it correctly.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm not accustom to using that type of sprayer. It sounds like it really struggles to spray paint and needs the paint thinned more. If the paint covers and drys alright with the correct sheen then it would be alright to thin it that much. Generally a waterborne paint needs to be sprayed with an airless sprayer or a pressure pot sprayer. It's possible the minimite sprayer isn't suited for the paint you are using.


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm no expert but you should be able to spray WB paint with a 4 stage turbine system. I haven't had any problems with my Earlex 6900 and it's only a 3 stage. I haven't tried any of the very thick paints, as I think the cheaper thinner paints work better anyway. I use the 2.0 needle in mine and I use a tip from an old painter friend for thinning that sounds crazy but works, at least for me it's been great. I cut my WB paint with winter windshield washer fluid, instead of just water, or the more expensive ones like Floetrol. It makes the paint flow very well and I thin it out to the desired viscosity for my cup. The blue color, of the fluid, doesn't seem to make any difference or affect the final paint color in any way.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I've read that BM advance is a difficult paint to spray, though I haven't tried it. I just sprayed some Olympic Icon (water borne exterior/interior) yesterday with my Fuji Super 4 Gold/XPC gravity cup yesterday, it worked well with about 15% thinning. Would you want to consider a different brand? As for the 35-40% thinning, I agree with Steve...if it works it's probably OK, but generally with waterborne finishes thinning too much can cause problems. One question: you did try adjusting to a smaller pattern (for higher effective air flow)?


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

I guess the million dollar question is, what are you spraying this product on? Will the WB hold up in your application or should you switch to a better quality finish. If I had to spray any latex product I would just rent an airless, if I didn't have one already, and spray it with that.


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## thewoodseed (Apr 7, 2014)

*thinning BM advance for HVLP*

OK...great comments thanks for the help.

clarifications:
-viscosity cup -- I used a Ford #4 viscosity cup (one that came with the FUJI unit. I realize it was probably confusing that i said #4.

-item being sprayed -- i am spraying on baltic birch plywood that has been primed with !Advance Primer!...actually, the primer sprayed perfectly at under 20% thinning which is why this is so troubling.

-finish--once the finish dries it does not look great. some orange peel and tons of overspray on surfaces that i didn't intend to cover the first time.

additional question:
Fred Hargis said "generally with waterborne finishes thinning too much can cause problems". does anyone know what kinds of problems we are talking about here? Does it change the chemistry of the finish or just make it so that i have to apply more coats?

Thanks again for all of your help.


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## thewoodseed (Apr 7, 2014)

*thinning BM advance for HVLP*

OK. so, i just got off the phone with the BM technical "help" team which was not so helpful. He said that it would end up changing the properties of the paint if I tried to thin by more than 10%. I asked if they have any other paints that would work and he said no. So I guess it is back to the drawing board with the type of paint to use. I am looking for suggestions from anyone regarding their experiences with the following:

General Finishes Milk Paint 
Old Fashioned Milk Paint

I am making childrens furniture and toys with it so the Old Fashioned Milk Paint would be great if it works. I know GF is not actually Milk Paint but I thought I would give it a try anyway.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks...Kevin


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

thewoodseed said:


> OK...great comments thanks for the help.
> 
> clarifications:
> -viscosity cup -- I used a Ford #4 viscosity cup (one that came with the FUJI unit. I realize it was probably confusing that i said #4.
> ...


I have to ask, when you sprayed the primer did you remove the primer from the gun immediately and thoroughly clean the gun? Primers can plug a sprayer worse than anything because they have so much solids. It doesn't take very much to make a good gun go bad. 

Some of the problems you are describing could easily have been caused by over thinning. Paint is like you took a clear varnish and add color to it. The clear is called a binder which needs to suspend the pigment in it. When you overthin it the binder tends to soak into the wood and leave the solids behind. Then since there is very little to hold the pigment together it can just crack or rub off or alter the sheen to completely flat.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

thewoodseed said:


> OK. so, i just got off the phone with the BM technical "help" team which was not so helpful. He said that it would end up changing the properties of the paint if I tried to thin by more than 10%. I asked if they have any other paints that would work and he said no. So I guess it is back to the drawing board with the type of paint to use. I am looking for suggestions from anyone regarding their experiences with the following:
> 
> General Finishes Milk Paint
> Old Fashioned Milk Paint
> ...


I haven't used very much milk paint. What I did use tended to get soft in humid weather so I quit trying. 

Any modern paint would be safe to use on childrens furniture and toys. Some of it like oil base enamels would take a lot longer to cure but would be safe.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

The comment on thinning too much was based on what I've read in Flexner's and Jewitt's books...it does actually change the chemistry and is unique to water borne finishes. It would seem that BM confirmed that...though the reply you got was less than helpful. You don't want to change to a different brand of acrylic paint?


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## thewoodseed (Apr 7, 2014)

*thinning BM Advance paint for HVLP*

Fred: do you have any thoughts on a different brand of acrylic WB paint for use in an HVLP sprayer? I know the GF Milk Paint does have acrylic in it so that is one avenue I am trying but I have read that it is pretty darn thick so I am not sure if I will have any luck. 

Steve: I did clean the gun as good as I possibly could. I am not sure if that is the issue. I guess one way to tell would be to spray the primer again. Also, I did try 5%, 10% , 20% , 30%, and 40% thinning. and yes, I wasted a lot of paint in the process. I think I covered my bases on thinning anyway.

Thanks again for your help guys. I really appreciate it.


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## Seubs070 (Oct 7, 2013)

General finishes has a pigmented waterborne laquer that is ment to be sprayed. Maybe try that.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I don't have a lot of expeience spraying water borne paint, but I have used the Olympic Icon I mentioned earlier (an acrylic) and it's predecessor (which I think was called Olympic Premium High Gloss Enamel), also an acrylic. I was able to spray both of them with a little thinning and my largest cap set (1.4MM). I'm sure there are others, maybe from SW. But the Olympic is a good product, and it's available at Lowes so it's not real expensive if you want to try it.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

>>>> He said that it would end up changing the properties of the paint if I tried to thin by more than 10%.

That is absolutely true. Thinning more than 10% is very high risk with waterborne finishes. Water is not really a thinner. It's function in the mixture is to keep other chemicals apart until the water evaporates. Adding water can cause the other chemicals to become so far apart in the mixture that the finish will never coalesce and form a proper film.

A lot of the newer waterborne finishes are quite thick and are designed to be applied by brush or by airless sprayers.

When the tech department gave you the info he did, it's not that he wasn't being helpful, it was that he was being truthful.

I don't know of any paint or finish tech department that I have spoken with that allowed more than 10% water to be added. Some have strongly said that they will recommend that no water be added. If water is added, they will not warrant the product.


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## thewoodseed (Apr 7, 2014)

*thinning BM advance for HVLP*

OK. So I went ahead and got some GF Milk Paint. It is awesome. I added about 10% distilled water and it sprayed perfectly. The instructions actually say you can add up to 10-20% water but many of you have warned against adding too much water so I left it at 10%. Anyway, I am sold. This stuff works great. It seems a little thick but not sticky like the BM Advance. the consistency just seems better. I tried sanding some dust nibs a bit this morning and I was happy to see that it sanded more chalky than sticky. The sheen is a little dull (it says satin which is probably right) but it looks great. i think it will hide things (mistakes :icon_smile well. Very Excited.


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