# Questions on constructing Cyclonic Separator setup.



## NLAlston (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello everyone,

I am very interested in putting together a Cyclone Separator in my little shop. I have a 1-1/2hp Jet (DC1100) which has been dedicated to my Carvewright, in another part of my basement, and a newly purchased 1hp Mini DC from Harbor Freight in my workshop. The Jet kept tripping the breaker whenever I used it in conjunction with any of my planer, or jointer - which is one of the reasons why I sprung for the lower power drawing DC. 

Now, I am of the assumption that marrying the HF mini DC to cyclonic unit would decrease its suctioning power - which leads me to my first question: Would such a decease translate into not quite enough suctioning for the proper functioning of a separator?

If the answer to the above turns out to be favorable, then what would the smallest diameter hose be recommended?

I am on fixed income, which is to say that I really don't have the finances to do much better than I already have, and my only two options are either the Dust Deputy or the trash can separator lid (seen at WoodCraft) - affixed to galvanized trash cans. 

It would wonderful if I could make something like that work for me. Other than that, it would be a matter of returning the mini DC, and running another circuit tommy shop. Then, I could just wheel my Jet DC back and forth between working locations. The only issue with that would be the fact that I would be limited to working (more safely) in BOTH areas at the same time. 

The mini DC seems to be a nice little unit, and I really hope that someone will have some really good news for me :smile:.

Advanced thanks,
Nathan


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Nathan....,I think we have the 1 HP HF DC?

Ours is completely custom from the ground up.It's based on a hand truck.Custom cyclone slides up and down on the hand truck rails to get the bin removed.It uses gravity to make the sealing connection between cyclone and the bin utilizing a tapered sleeve that is the chit.

Anyway,the cyclone is or would be way better suited for the larger HF motor and impellor but,like you wanted the lower cost of runnin the 1 HP.........

I have a 4" gage metal inlet coming in at exactly the right dwnwrd angle,facilitating the swirl.We run a nice 4-3 reducer right at the inlet.I use this machine for our vertical panel saw and the hose from that unit is up around 7-8 feet high......so it really is turbocharging the cyclone,making up for lack of HP.

It also gets wheeled over to a cpl of sanding machines.Heres the problem with this setup;It ain't a lack of suction,that's for dang sure....it works the treat.The problem is electrical.This setup gets switched on/off about once ever 2-3 minutes.Any larger of a system and I don't feel you can switch'm on/off like that?We have other,bigger systems.....but as it applies to your question,we run a 3" duct to it and it works better than anything else we've tried for our application?

Good luck,BW


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

I have the 1Hp green DC from HF and use a Thien style separator built with a 30 gal plastic barrel and 4" line and it works great. In fact I actually have 2 of this setup and love them. I prefer the green HF unit over the red one because it has a induction motor and doesn't make near as much noise and the induction motor should outlast the red one with a universal motor. :thumbsup:


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## NLAlston (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks for responding, BW, and for the info.


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## NLAlston (Jan 11, 2008)

tvman44 said:


> I have the 1Hp green DC from HF and use a Thien style separator built with a 30 gal plastic barrel and 4" line and it works great. In fact I actually have 2 of this setup and love them. I prefer the green HF unit over the red one because it has a induction motor and doesn't make near as much noise and the induction motor should outlast the red one with a universal motor. :thumbsup:


TVman44, I appreciate your info, also.

Like your unit, mine is also the green one - and I would really like to keep it. 

After writing my initial post, I did begin to search more into the Thien Separator, and did find myself being a bit drawn to it. Just trying to find info on which style unit (Thien or Cyclonic) would be best for my 1hp DC. One thing I seemed to notice was that the Thien couldn't be found as a manufactured device. Is it a matter of someone (very thoughtfully) sharing a design that he/she came up with? If so, I wish that I could find a good instructable as to how to go about making one. I would mainly be concerned about any cutout tolerances of the arc'd flow-through area.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*do a search on wood shop dust separators*

These are the variations of separators:
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...fr=ytff1-gl-gen1&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-006




















I like this one since it can also be used as a machine stand for a small planer or other tool:


















They can take many configurations from barrels to boxes to cyclones, with low cost inlet and outlet fittings from Roclker or others or commercial made cyclones Dust Deputy etc. at more expense.


Keep in mind that any length of dust hose ribbed hose or sharp bends will restrict your CFM and reduce the effectiveness of the overall system, and your DC is not all that powerful to start with.

I use a Rigid 6.5 16 GAL shop vac to collect dust on my router tables, bandsaws, radial arm saws and the over the blade collector on my table saw. It is not a DC, it's a shop vac. The difference is the amount of air CFM and the velocity. Shop vac move smaller amounts of air but at much higher velocities. DC's move larger amounts of air at slower velocities.... it's simple and complex, at the same time.

Go to this site and read until your eyes hurt and you will be much more knowledgeable after:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

Check out his web site all you need to know.
http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?board=1.0

Inexpensive and very efficient. Very satisfied with mine. :thumbsup:


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Dust collector*

WoodNThings
Thanks for the info on dust collection. 
Very good. 
Jim


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## NLAlston (Jan 11, 2008)

tvman44 said:


> Check out his web site all you need to know.
> http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?board=1.0
> 
> Inexpensive and very efficient. Very satisfied with mine. :thumbsup:


Bob, the link you included provided very valuable information. It is something that every dust generating craftsperson should be armed with. I had always taken steps (the best that I knew, anyway) toward efforts at combating generated dust, but I had NO idea that it was anywhere near as dangerous as what I read. I have a Delta Air Filtration system, a shop vac and (now) two DC's. However (and according to what I just recently gathered, from the reading that I did), what I have may very well fall short of what is acceptable/recommended for the sake of effectively dealing with dust. 

My little shop is directly under a first floor bedroom, and I now worry about that lighter-than-air dust which could work its way to the above floor. I surely don't have the money to spring for a much beefier (3-6hp) DC, which can TRULY boast of a much greater CFM draw, and I am a bit concerned about getting back into my shop.

I'll see, though.

Many, many thanks for sharing that link. It was an eye opener, indeed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the dangers of fine dust*

This site I posted goes into the hazards of shop dust by someone who knows first hand:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

I don't think this is the one you meant and you may have confused the two?
http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?board=1.0

:blink:


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## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

I don't think you need to worry about dust getting into the bedroom above your shop unless: a) there's a gaping hole in the bedroom floor/shop ceiling or b) there's a HVAC return line in your shop, in which case your entire house is at risk. Having the Delta air cleaner helps a lot- I run mine on a timer 30 min after finishing my last dust-producing episode of the day.

I think the most effective (and cheapest) protector of your health is a respirator mask. I use the 3M 6300 series, which is very comfortable, easy to put on/take off, and doesn't fog up my glasses. A while ago woodwhisperer did a review of masks- check it out.


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## NLAlston (Jan 11, 2008)

jdonhowe said:


> I don't think you need to worry about dust getting into the bedroom above your shop unless: a) there's a gaping hole in the bedroom floor/shop ceiling or b) there's a HVAC return line in your shop, in which case your entire house is at risk. Having the Delta air cleaner helps a lot- I run mine on a timer 30 min after finishing my last dust-producing episode of the day.
> 
> I think the most effective (and cheapest) protector of your health is a respirator mask. I use the 3M 6300 series, which is very comfortable, easy to put on/take off, and doesn't fog up my glasses. A while ago woodwhisperer did a review of masks- check it out.


Jdon - thanks a heap.

For one, there is no gaping hole betwixt the two levels, and I am not certain about any hivac opening there. I don't recall seeing any vent-like device anywhere in that vicinity. But I will certainly go over the area with a fine-tipped comb. But here's (following) is what I have decided to do:

Though I do like the HP mini DC, I am going to return it. I had moved my larger, Jet DC1100 and my Carvewright out of the shop- and purchased the mini FOR my shop - owing to real estate concerns. But there are some infrequently used items in my shop which could be moved to another area our basement, with the Jet DC, and Carvewright, being returned to my shop. Also, taking the mini back will afford me the money needed to extend the two dedicated power lines that I had recently added to the circuit panel box (if it weren't for the money needs I would actually keep the mini). Additionally, I would have a few dollars left over by which to avail myself of a good respirator. 

The absolute FIRST thing I would involve myself in would be the building of cyclonic unit: either the Thien design, or with the Dust Deputy cone. 

I had hoped to be able to exhaust outside, but the only opening is within a vented, block glass window. I am reasonably sure that, with a little bit of work, something could be adapted to output through that vented opening. 

Either way, I am beginning to see things not looking so hopeless for me :smile:.

I truly LOVE being in my little shop.

Thanks again - and VERY MUCH SO.


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## NLAlston (Jan 11, 2008)

jdonhowe said:


> I think the most effective (and cheapest) protector of your health is a respirator mask. I use the 3M 6300 series, which is very comfortable, easy to put on/take off, and doesn't fog up my glasses. A while ago woodwhisperer did a review of masks- check it out.


JD, I just returned home from Home Depot with a respirator. They didn't have your exact model, but I got the 3M-6500 (P/100) respirator. It IS. A half mask, so it should offer the same comfortability as yours.

You know (and up until now), I had always kept myself stocked with those disposable dust masks, and they are better than nothing at all. But, I will NOW feel much better about the upgraded level of protection that this respirator should afford me. 

Thank you for pulling me back into a heightened level of sensibility, regarding dust protection concerns. 

My family will applaud you, too :smile:.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

A regular dust deputy is way too small for a dust collector. A super dust deputy would work nicely, but probably out of your budget. A cyclone lid would help, but you could build something better for the same money.


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## NLAlston (Jan 11, 2008)

hwebb99 said:


> A regular dust deputy is way too small for a dust collector. A super dust deputy would work nicely, but probably out of your budget. A cyclone lid would help, but you could build something better for the same money.


You know something? The past few nights I have viewed just about everything that was available, on YouTube, regarding the build of the various separator units. None of them gave the actual dimensioning (understandable, as some builders will use different sized containers), and I have been trying to determine which would be the best to construct, for my efforts. 

There was one guy who built one (claiming his own design) out of a large, cardboard container - and who also stated his belief that the makers of the Dust Deputy stole his idea. I kinda liked his unit, but don't recall it having a baffle (I saw so many videos, and will have to look back at his). From what I have read, elsewhere, the baffle is a very important integration of such a device, and I feel that I would want one incorporated. Even if his didn't have one, I am sure that it wouldn't be too pressing of a matter to build one in. 

At any rate, I am going to jump on something REAL SOON. there are so many ideas floating around in my head (woodworking projects), and I can't WAIT to get busy in my shop, again. 

Research is good, as it offers a great deal of information. However, you may happen to find that some of it is conflicting. I have read that the conical design (such as the Dust Deputy) offered the least in flow reduction. Then, I have also read that the Thien design showed the least, in the regards of decreased DC flow.

Hence my confusion :smile:.


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