# Hand plane "lot" purchase



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I saw a post on the local Craigs list for a "lot" of "Bailey Wood planes", advertised as [email protected]#4, [email protected]#5, [email protected]#6, [email protected]#7, total 7 planes for $100.

The seller said superficial rust, no broken handles and blades in reasonable condition, so I splurged, mostly because I had been looking for a #6.

The seller said these were passed down from grandfather/father and had been in his family as long as he knew.

Showing the planes as purchased, picture taken after I unloaded from the car.

These are [email protected] #5, [email protected]#6 and [email protected]#7. All say Bailey on the casting and have the number at the other end of the casting.

I have no idea why the #6 cap iron does not say Stanley.









The leftmost is a Stanley Familyman. It states Bailey on the casting, but no number, which I think I read in another post is normal.
The middle one is a Bailey #3, and has this on the casting. I see this is slightly narrower than the leftmost one.

The rightmost plane is a mystery. It is the length and width of a #5, says "Made in USA", but no manufacturer name.









This is more detail. Note the short single blade.

Update, this is not the blade, it is the cap iron. The plane is missing the blade. The cap iron is a lot shorter than the #3, so I would expect it to be difficult to find a blade. This puppy may be fated for recycle.









I will post more pictures as I clean these up. Does anyone have any idea on the mystery plane?

I am interested in tips on how to determine the ages of these planes. I think they may be early - mid 1900's, but would like to confirm, mostly for my own curiosity.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Very nice haul. :thumbsup: They all look to be in good usable condition after a little cleanup. 

I'm sure you meant to type "Handyman" instead of "Familyman", you were probably so excited showing all of them you mistyped that.:smile:

Sorry, but I can't help you with the mystery plane. It looks like it has no chip breaker and no lateral adjuster. Does the frog look like it is intact, or does it look like the top half with the lateral adjuster is broken off?

Here is a link to a site with info and flowcharts on typing and dating Stanley planes:

http://hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/index.php

Edit: After looking closer at the unknown, does it even have a removable frog or is it just cast into the frame?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for the link on how to determine the age of Stanley planes. I may have seen this some time ago, but did not recall.

I will investigate.

This is detail on the frog of the mystery plane. Fixed. This is likely some inexpensive knock off of the Bailey design.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

That's an excellent buy. Enjoy !


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Here's an idea for you - grind a radius on that blade a make it into a scrub plane!


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

Dave, post a better pic. That looks like a 62.


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## joe bailey (Dec 15, 2011)

I think your mystery plane is an unmarked Stanley Defiance.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

they're not from the 1900's. looks like they all have a raise lip around the tote. that was added in the 1920's-30's to help prevent the knob from cracking. 

looks to me like 1940's - 50's. Maybe some from the 30's but I kind of doubt it. 

Check this site out, maybe it'll help you http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/type_study.php

Great buy tho! you'll have a good little fleet going soon. what do you intend to do with the ones you don't want?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

The #6 feels like it is a Type 11 1910 - 1918. It has three patent dates in the casting and a 1 1/4in dia knob on the frog.

The #7 is later. No patent dates on the casting.
This may be Type 12 or 13.

I think the #6 may have a replacement cap iron.

I am looking for these to be users, so the age is more for information.

I was hoping to get an early 1900's and I think I managed to get "older" iron.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

joe bailey said:


> I think your mystery plane is an unmarked Stanley Defiance.


Joe I'm thinking along the same lines... Possibly a house brand model?

Great gaggle of planes ya found Dave. Nice haul!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Keith Mathewson said:


> Dave, post a better pic. That looks like a 62.


No it's not a 62. The 62 has an adjustable mouth and the blade is seated at 12 degrees. It would also have "Stanley" in raised letters in front of the knob.

Edit: Go here for a couple of good pictures of the #62: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm


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## joe bailey (Dec 15, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Joe I'm thinking along the same lines... Possibly a house brand model?


Exactly Tom - Here's another example - no markings anywhere (other than "MADE IN USA"), but even the box shows a Defiance part number.
Note similarities to OP's plane -- maroon handles, short lever cap with border around textured face, and round-cornered shape of iron. Also instead of a cast frog, there is only a vestigial pedestal arrangement with a highly-angled adjuster wheel axis.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Nice Picts Joe. That certainly covers that.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for solving the mystery plane puzzle.

So this is from the Stanley Defiance line. Nice pictures of that other one. Great condition.

I have no intention of trying to find a blade.

If anyone has interest in this to either refurb or use for parts in other Stanley Defiance, send me a PM and address and I will send off to you.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I think it may have been suggested already but you could make a scrub plane out of it.

Get a 3/16" piece of tool steel for an iron. Widen the mouth and lose the chip breaker. 

Just a thought.

Or you could send it to me being I already have tool steel stock in that thickness :laughing:


Edit:
Just to be clear I'm joking about sending it to me... It would be yrs before I messed with it.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I think it may have been suggested already but you could make a scrub plane out of it.
> 
> Get a 3/16" piece of tool steel for an iron. Widen the mouth and lose the chip breaker.
> 
> ...


I did see the earlier reply suggesting converting this to a scrub plane. Feels like more work on this puppy than I care to spend.

I am enjoying reading about the other planes, and now I know why the #6 does not say "STANLEY". Its vintage is earlier than when the brand name was put on the lever cap.

I am happy to send this on for you to convert to a scrub plane.

Send me a PM with your address and I will post it to you.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I didn't edit the other post quick enough... I appreciate it but I don't have the time to put into it either.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

*The first #5 is cleaned up*

Today I finished cleaning up the "younger" #5. This was not intended to be a restoration back to almost new, rather to be usable.

I took the plane apart, cleaned up all the components, lapped the sole and sharpened the blade.

I did not take a picture of the blade, it was not dinged, but it was butchered by the last person to sharpen. I botch sharpening if ever I saw one. I would say < 15 deg bevel, inconsistent from side to side and about 1/8in lower on the one side. Clearly a "hand job" on a wheel.

I wanted to rescue the blade to keep the components original. I was able to get the blade square but still shows the marks from the botch job. It will take a few sharpenings for the scars to disappear.

This is the "before" picture. This looked to have some of the worst rust, but it was still superficial.









This is the "after picture. Elbow grease and wet/dry paper did the trick. Tested on a 3/4in pine board. Nice fluffy shavings.









I think this is a Type 16. This is the detail from the site in an earlier reply. The photo does not show, but the blade does have "STANLEY" and "MADE IN THE USE" on the front.
The plane also has the raised rib on the toe and heel which also does not show well in the photo.

 Type 16. Planes made by Stanley 1933-1941.  

All of the features of the previous, except: 
"STANLEY", inside the notched rectangle, with "MADE IN U.S.A." is now the new logo stamped on the cutter. This is identical to the previous logo, except the heart and "S.W." have been removed. 
A kindney-shaped hole in the lever cap replaced the old symmetrical keyhole-shaped hole. This was touted as making the cutter less likely to loosen when the depth was adjusted; the lever cap wouldn't be apt to move (along its length) as much. 
The toe now has a raised, broad, flat rib cast into it. A similar rib is found at the heel. 
The frog now has an ogee-shape (s-shape) to the back, on either side of the lateral adjustment lever.
 I really appreciate the link to the site to date these puppies.

This cleaning/restoration work is almost addictive. If I am becoming addicted to something, someone else has to be blamed. Who can that be? 

Perhaps Firemedic. He posted the picture with the most planes.  :laughing:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

That cleaned up real nice, it'll be a good plane for you (and there's lots of blade left as you remove the previous damage). 

I feel your pain with the addiction of restoring them, I vote we blame firemedic as well:laughing:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Looking good, Dave! 

If the plane doesn't seem to hold an edge you may need to carefully grind it further back. I've seen quite a few planes that had no temper near the bevel due to over heating from hack grinder jobs. Keep in mind though that there is a limited amount of hardened steel at the end. It ends about a 1/4"-1/2" before the large hole in the slot.

Don't blame me! There are guys here with far more planes than me. Besides it's your own fault for falling down the rabbit hole... I warned ya! :laughing:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

*2nd #5 and #6 cleanup*

I have just completed the cleanup of a couple more from this haul.

Cleanup was using wet-dry paper, Fast Orange Hand Cleaner.

I did run out of wet-dry and then found my "dry" papers could actually be used wet. Handy to know.

The Fast Orange contains pumice, and when used with the sand paper removes grease/grime and the superficial rust very well.

I then lapped the sole/side with paper on my granite slab.

All screws were removed and cleaned then lubricated before re-assembly.

The 2nd #5 and the #6 before the cleanup









The 2nd #5 after cleanup, side view. The blade had a bad sharpening, but I was able to re-sharpen. There is the remnant of an original label on the handle.









The 2nd #5 after cleanup, bottom view. Yes, you are seeing a hole someone drilled into the sole to allow hanging on a hook.









The #6 after cleanup, side view. This blade had no dings and either original edge, or sharpened correctly a long time ago.
The lack of "STANLEY" on the lever cap is original, it seems this did not start until the likes of 1920.
This is the oldest of the planes in this haul.









The #6 after cleanup, bottom view. No hole in this one.









Happy to report both planes are now making nice fluffy shavings. I now have 2 good examples of "old iron".

Lifting up the #6 and #7 gives me a new respect for the old time craftsman who had to muscle these planes day after day.

Next for cleanup is the #3 following by the #7.

I also have the Stanley Handyman, same length as #3 but no model number. Anyone want to take the Stanley Handyman for cleanup as a user?

This has been a nice project and a useful learning for me.

I was originally looking to buy a Record #6. The seller said "vintage Record". It was 1960's. Very nice condition, but I felt too much money.

When this post came up on the same Craig's list 7 planes for $100, which included a desired #6, it seemed like a much better deal.

I believe my #6 is a Type 11 which puts this as made anywhere in 1910 - 1918. I feel this is more of a vintage than the Record.


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## danj (Jul 4, 2012)

This is great. Good work. The Dunlap I restored from sad shape woks well now; i'm sure these will be great for you. 

Also, thanks for sending me that other to clean and use as a scrub plane. I'll put it to good use.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

nice find. If the #6 has a large iron adjuster knob its probably a type 12, if its a small adjuster knob its probably a type 11.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

timetestedtools said:


> nice find. If the #6 has a large iron adjuster knob its probably a type 12, if its a small adjuster knob its probably a type 11.


Thanks the #6 has the larger adjustment knob so it looks like it is a Type 12, still decent age, 1919 - 1924.


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## Barb Dwyre (Oct 17, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Looking good, Dave!
> 
> If the plane doesn't seem to hold an edge you may need to carefully grind it further back. I've seen quite a few planes that had no temper near the bevel due to over heating from hack grinder jobs. Keep in mind though that there is a limited amount of hardened steel at the end. It ends about a 1/4"-1/2" before the large hole in the slot.
> 
> Don't blame me! There are guys here with far more planes than me. Besides it's your own fault for falling down the rabbit hole... I warned ya! :laughing:


Can't a irons edge be retempered by heating it up and then dropping into a bucket of oil?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Barb Dwyre said:


> Can't a irons edge be retempered by heating it up and then dropping into a bucket of oil?


Yes steel can be retempered.

Not so easy. There are many sites with step by step instructions.

One example.
https://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/heat_treating/heat_treating.htm

In general heating until yellow hot which is very high temperature, then fast queching in e.g., oil to make the steel hard. At this stage it will be hard but brittle.

This requires some kind of forge or special high temperature oven. The temperatures required at higher than you may expect.

So to temper the steel to remove the brittle aspect, it then needs to be heated in e.g., an oven to something like 400 deg F for a period of time and then allowed to cool slowly in air.


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## Woodwart (Dec 11, 2012)

That plane wi;thout a logo on the lever cap may predate 1925, when the logo was added. Those lever caps will also have a keyhole shaped slot in the lever cap, rather than the kidney shaped one.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Woodwart said:


> That plane wi;thout a logo on the lever cap may predate 1925, when the logo was added. Those lever caps will also have a keyhole shaped slot in the lever cap, rather than the kidney shaped one.


Yes, I think the lever cap is original. This was the first time I saw a Stanley plane without STANLEY on the lever cap.

I then read the Type studies and found out that Types before Type 13 did not anything on the lever cap.

I think this No. 6 is a Type 12. It was my oldest vintage Stanley, until last week when I purchased a No. 5 thinking I would use it as a parts plane, then found it is around Type 8 or 9. I am pondering whether to restore this one. The blade is rather short.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

Hey Dave, you can blame me, and when your ready to quit, you know where to send the goods. 

I've got a #3 size just like that defiant if your looking to start a set!


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

timetestedtools said:


> Hey Dave, you can blame me, and when your ready to quit, you know where to send the goods.


Don, good to know you have such a big heart. :laughing:



timetestedtools said:


> I've got a #3 size just like that defiant if your looking to start a set!


I passed the Defiant onto someone shortly after I finished the thread.

There is a Defiant at my local flea market. I did not look at the size.


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