# thoughts on this design?



## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

So I drew myself into a bit of a problem. I did this design for a customer based on her wants, and I realized I suddenly don't know how I'm going to secure the free form shelves on the sides. It's hard to tell in the drawing, but everything above the base unit will not be as wide as the wall space. Meaning nothing to attach the ends of the shelves to. The upper most one is obviously not the issue. It's the ones in the middle.

The only thing I keep coming up with is something like how I've fastened floating mantles onto a stone fireplace. But with those prior to the masonary work I would have already sunk giant lag bolts into the sub-structure or framing, drill out the back edge of the beam with deep holes and push the mantle onto the pins.

This has me puzzled...am I even making any sense here?...:no:
I still haven't decided if I'm going to use 1.5" solid stock for the shelves, or go with plywood panels with hardwood front edges or I guess you could say hollow shelves.

My main concern is the weight issue, whatever it is, it has to be able to hold firm without any "sponginess" to it.


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## JMendez035 (May 14, 2008)

the only thing i can think of is this... keep in mind these dimensions dont resemble yours:

from what i gathered from your drawing:










my suggestion is move it over some to kinda balance out one another maybe thicken up the pieces going up and down and do some solid notches both on the vertical pieces adn shelves hope this makes sense


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

thanks J...I was thinking along those lines too. I'll have to mock something up first.


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

If those shelves go all the way to the back wall, you can at least secure the back edge by going into the studs with a 3/8" metal dowel, and then into the shelves with the dowel. You would then install by pushing the unit inwards, onto the dowels. This will act as a hidden "cleat" of sorts. I've used this technique on shelves before, but they were only 6" deep. It doesn't do anything for your front edges, though. Perhaps a magic incantation? But if you do what JMendez suggested, in combination with the dowels into the studs at the back, you ought to get reasonably good strength out of it.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Be honest with your customer. Tell them you designed something that can't be built. Architects do it all the time. Give them some sort of small support along the ends to help hold them up and spaced properly. A piece of thin decorative metal like stainless or copper. I think it could be built along the lines that everyone is thinking but the problem I forsee is getting them to all be perfectly perpendicular and spaced the same on the end that is in mid air. You start putting more weight on one shelf over the others and it's going to sag and any sag will be very visible.


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## tator (Feb 23, 2008)

I like Big Dave idea could incorp in the frount of the shelvs and uprights


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## Check twice! (Mar 31, 2008)

I personally believe the customer should be told the truth. You are the man that can tell them if something can work with long term success. 

I have found, sometimes the customer has to be educated, and we have to be the teachers. I like the idea and looks good, with a little support it would would be great.

John


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks guys. I based the design on a picture from a magazine she gave me of a production piece, but with that one the shelves canter levered farther into the center of the unit allowing for the "floating appearance" but the shelf was more balanced for stability.

I will most likely fasten the ends to the walls. Maybe by leaving out the traditional case where shelves are set into a box. I can still make her happy. My gut is telling me no matter what I do short of heavy steel bars hidden in the shelves and anchored to the two centered uprights, nothing will make it stable enough. You're right big Dave, the slightest sag will be a visual and functional failure and I hate spending a lot of time on a commisioned job only to have to eat crow and start over.

I tore out the existing natural cherry built-in that was there today. After eight miles of audio video cable extraction and my van practically bottoming out from the weight of the entire old unit being broken down and heading for the dump tomorrow morning...I'm ready to start cutting some wood.

Yes there are a few large salvageable cherry panels from the tear out that will find a temporary home in the corner of my basement next to all the other misfits.


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## snowi (Mar 2, 2008)

mmwood1 has a good idea.. on the back wall use hiden dowels, that are into solid structure. On the ends of the shelves cut a blind dado in the end grain and use the same hidden dowels. If you can on the shelf above the tv, secure a sold back and anchor it to the wall after the shelving is secured on the dowels. I may not have explaind it right. let me know if you get my jist. 

Ralph


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## LaurelLaneWoodWorks (May 12, 2008)

I would agree with John. I went through the same exercise with a customer a couple of weeks ago. They wanted something that could not be built the way they wanted it to be built, for the money they wanted to spend. After much discussion we agreed on how to build it out and the cost. A win-win for everyone. BTW - I really like your design and I think some of the suggestions posted are good ones.

Mike


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I agree with Big Dave. Some ideas will work in one dimension (on paper), but not in actual use. The client will appreciate your honesty and realizing the drawbacks. 

An option would be to use a full piece of clear acrylic, maybe 3/8" thick or thicker as a back support that the shelves could be connected to. In any case, IMO, the structural integrity isn't provided in this design to afford limitless usage.


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

:laughing:...so much for modern simplicity. I dodged a bullet after she called me and said "_You didn't start my project yet did you? I don't know what I was thinking with four kids and all the stuff I'm always needing to stow away_"

So here's the basic final concept, after four drawings and two days later. No longer mocha mahogany. Satin black and lots of storage. I was happy with the decision.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

That looks a lot easier to do.

Gerry


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

Holy Cow. That's quite different than the first design.


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## Daveb (May 3, 2007)

Although you changed the design, for discussion purposes I have a comment. In your first design, maybe you could have hung four thin cables (or rods) from the ceiling. Two on each end. One near the front and one near the back. Each set of two cables would pass through and support the ends of the three cantilevered shelves. This would preserve the modern feel to the design. They could be painted black. Just an alternative idea.


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