# First project, no pocket hole jig... how do I join this?



## kaitlyn2004 (Nov 4, 2020)

Very new, about to start my first project... I don’t have a pocket hole jig, but am looking to build some garage shelving mounted to the wall. A ton of the videos I come across are like this: 




When it gets towards putting the crossbars against the wall-mounted backing, how can I attach it to them? Most of what I’m seeing is pocket holes…

It seems putting the boards on the wall first let you easily build an equal opposite side, plus not needed explicit vertical legs for the back (AND that it actually attaches to the wall...) but then how on earth do I attach the wood?


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Cheapest Kreg only about $10. Get it tomorrow from Amazon.
johnep


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Sorry, gone up now about $25.
johnep


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

You do not need anything other than nails or (as I prefer) screws. The shelf boards lie on top of the piece that is fastened to the wall. I then use screws to faster the shelf to the support board to keep it from slipping around.

Same thing for the front support. I cannot imagine anyone using Kreg for this job.

George


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

imho, i would skip using cleats on the wall to rest the shelf on, and just attach the shelf to the wall through the back 2x4. for extra strength, make sure you hit the studs, like 3 1/2" screws minimum you can also insert a short piece of 2x4 vertically between each shelf to support the shelf above, starting at the floor. will hold a ton...


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

I have tons of shelving like that.
put the 2x4's on the wall, level, 3" dry wall screw into stud at vertical spacing
cut the shelves to width, (I glue then) screw the 2x4 to the front edge.
screw bottom shelf to wall 2x4, angled in, no pocket nothing needed, with 1-3/4 dry wall screws

depending on accessibility...
(1) prop up bottom shelf temporarily
(2) stack all shelves on bottom shelf

or, if you can slide shelves in from the end....
level the shelf and screw the upright 2x4's to the bottom rail
I prefer to have the front up just slightly, but that's just me....

lift or insert next shelf, angle screw to wall 2x4
level shelf, screw upright to front 2x4

rinse and repeat.


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

kaitlyn2004 said:


> Very new, about to start my first project... I don’t have a pocket hole jig, but am looking to build some garage shelving mounted to the wall. A ton of the videos I come across are like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't need pocket holes for the "cleats".

The idea is used in framing with nails all the time, it is called "toe nailing" where you nail one piece perpendicular to another by driving nails in at an angle(much like the Kreg holes). You can do the same thing with screws, hold the piece in place, drive the screws into the piece mounted onto the wall. No pretty hole and guide from the Kreg, but works just as well.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

no need for a kreg jig. sort of silly the way they used the kreg jig for that purpose
no real need for the intermediate cross cleats either unless you plan to stack these shelves full of bricks
i have a similar shelf in my basement, the front and rear 2x4 and legs is all i used
i sort of like the way the temp attached the front shelf supports to the rear for screwing in the legs

when you cut your plywood, 16" will get you 3 shelves from one sheet of plywood or osb


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## Bullseyeguy (Apr 28, 2017)

If you still want the crossbars after reading the other responses, there IS an easy way. Cut a short section of 2X4 to make a cleat and fasten it on the support (parallel with the support) where you want the crossbar to go. Then you can fasten the crossbar butting to the end of the cleat. Frankly, you could still angle a pilot hole in the crossbar and just use that as described for the "toe nailing" like someone wrote earlier. If you want to keep your crossbar in place while you screw it, install one of those cleats like I mentioned temporarily in place while you install the crossbar, then remove it. Angled screws from both sides would be really strong, but I would pre-drill and install 2 from one side first with the temporary cleat in place, then remove the cleat and install one more in the center from the other side to finish it off.

To pre-drill, start the hole going in perpendicular, and after the bit just starts to make a hole, carefully change the orientation to angle it in the direction you want it to go while the drill is still turning. Practice this a couple of times and you will get the hang of it. Remember, this is carpentry, not furniture making. 

FYI, Nails probably would be sufficient, but screws would be MUCH better...IMHO. Try and find Torx or square drive though. It will save a lot of frustration.

Cheers!

Brad


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

You can use these braces to fasten the cross supports to the long pieces:





Simpson Strong-Tie 2 in. W X 4 in. L Galvanized Steel Medium L-Angle - Ace Hardware


Not only do angles make joints stronger, they also provide more consistent, straight corners. Simpson Strong-Tie offers a wide variety of angles in various sizes and thicknesses to handle light-duty jobs or projects where a structural connection is needed. Some can be bent (skewed) to match the...




www.acehardware.com


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)




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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Wouldn't that be called "toe screwing" ... since there ain't any nails involved.... just sayin'


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> Wouldn't that be called "toe screwing" ... since there ain't any nails involved.... just sayin'


*Toenailing* or skew-nailing is a popular technique that carpenters use regularly to fix two timbers together by slanted application. The fasteners (nails or screws), used in pairs, are driven in on opposing angles. 






Toenailing - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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