# Oneida Vs. Clearvue?



## Okietoker

Who makes a better dust collection system...the Oneida 5HP or the Clearvue 5HP? Both systems look good but which one is better?


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## dbhost

Oneida is metal, made in USA. Clearvue is heavy clear plastic and MDF made in USA, but enjoys the advantage of Bill Pentz cyclone design. In the long run, I would love a Clearvue that happens to replace the MDF with metal, but that isn't now, so it would have to be the Oneida just from a durability standpoint...


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## kinghong1970

there is also grizzly and penn state ind options as well...

i too would love to jump on a clearvue but i honestly don't like the mdf and plastic build.

not sure of exact specs but seems grizzly cyclone imitates the clearvue design whereas oneida and psi doesn't...


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## Fred Hargis

When you say better, that encompasses many different aspects. Oneida's DC's are built like a tank (at least the older ones were), but in my opinion most other attributes favor the CV. My 5 year old Oneida (which is now a 5HP, though it was born as a 2HP) separates to factory specs (99%, actually mine gets 98.4% by volume the one time I measured it) but in my criteria that's not good enough. That blowby is all the very finest of the dust particles, meaning you get to clean the filter more often. That becomes more important if you use a drum sander a lot. The CV, on the other hand, moves as much air (more than mine, it has the smaller 14" impeller) separates much better due to the internal air ramp, squared sloped inlet, and dimensional correctness per Pentz. It has what many view as a disadvantage of the polycarbonate body and the MDF on the blower. Oneida has chosen to balance the extra separation with the considerable costs of moving to a Pentz type design. I hope to move to a CV sometime...until then I just keep cleaning my filter. I should add, I regularly get bashed for peeing on the Oneida name, so I'll add that all of this is just my opinion. I realize that most Oneida owners are quite happy with their DC. BTW, Grizzly seemed to have copied most of Pentz's design with their DC's, at least on a few of the models.


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## JoeNY

I have had zero issues with my 3 hp Oneida over the past 13 years I have owned it. It is by far the best shop purchase I have made. 
Between that unit and a pair of Jet AFS-1000's in my 19'x20' shop dust is pretty much non-existant


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## kinghong1970

just out of curiosity...

if one were to T off a 2" pvc on the exhaust of a cyclone, before going off into the filters, and venting it outside, hence air from impeller will go to either 2" direct outdoor or through the filter.

Will i benefit anything? ie, longer lasting filters, better performance...

i want to upgrade to a cyclone, i think i may take advantage of their lay away plan available in Clearvue, but not sure if i should get a filtered version or non-filter to vent all outdoors...


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## rrbrown

kinghong1970 said:


> just out of curiosity...
> 
> if one were to T off a 2" pvc on the exhaust of a cyclone, before going off into the filters, and venting it outside, hence air from impeller will go to either 2" direct outdoor or through the filter.
> 
> Will i benefit anything? ie, longer lasting filters, better performance...
> 
> i want to upgrade to a cyclone, i think i may take advantage of their lay away plan available in Clearvue, but not sure if i should get a filtered version or non-filter to vent all outdoors...


Personally I think messing with a cyclone design is a mistake. Those things are effective as is and well thought out. I doubt much dust gets to the filters. You could vent the whole thing outside bypassing the filter all together but that could cause problems with negative pressure or climate control in some cases.


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## kinghong1970

thanks for the reply Richard.... i'm still not sure which way to go...

i have about 900 sq ft space in my basement where i make my things and my wife complains of dust... 
i am working with a 1 hp canister DC and still not doing the best as after i come back to my shop the next day, i see a film of dust on my tables.

i want to control/remove as much as i can... but these 5 hp models, namely the clearvue model, seems too much for my "hobby" needs...
i have a 2 acre lot... surrounded by trees... venting out may be an option...
i don't intend to use more than 1 machine at a time, as it is usually just me down there. do i really need a 5 hp model or can i get by with a 3 hp or 2.5hp models available from other vendors?

otoh, grizzly and other vendors pricing of 3hp is almost same as CV's 5hp model... tough call...

oh, and i'm still running a ceiling mount air filter as well...


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## rrbrown

kinghong1970 said:


> thanks for the reply Richard.... i'm still not sure which way to go...
> 
> i have about 900 sq ft space in my basement where i make my things and my wife complains of dust...
> i am working with a 1 hp canister DC and still not doing the best as after i come back to my shop the next day, i see a film of dust on my tables.
> 
> i want to control/remove as much as i can... but these 5 hp models, namely the clearvue model, seems too much for my "hobby" needs...
> i have a 2 acre lot... surrounded by trees... venting out may be an option...
> i don't intend to use more than 1 machine at a time, as it is usually just me down there. do i really need a 5 hp model or can i get by with a 3 hp or 2.5hp models available from other vendors?
> 
> otoh, grizzly and other vendors pricing of 3hp is almost same as CV's 5hp model... tough call...
> 
> oh, and i'm still running a ceiling mount air filter as well...


A few suggestions

Build a Thien Baffle or buy a cyclone it will help some but the 1 hp might be a little small. For the money the HF 2hp unit would be a good upgrade that you may be able to use the same canister. Pictures of that would help.

Build or buy a air filtration unit which will get rid of that film of dust on everything.


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## Fred Hargis

Since you're concerned with getting all the dust, bear in mind that to do that you need to move LOTS of air. So you will not only need the larger DC, but larger ports at the machines as well as ducting that allows the movement of all that air. I A cyclone itself is really a drag on that movement, so for the same CFM, cyclones will generally have to have a larger motor/fan to overcome that drag. This is offset somewhat by the fact that a good cyclone will have a fan made to move air, as opposed to one that also has to withstand impact like a single stage DC (from the chunks of stuff that hit it). They will have backward swept vanes, be made of balanced aluminum, and so on. So, will the 2.5/3 HP models do as well....probably, but there are so many factors involved it's hard to say. The 5 HP Leeson is actually a compressor duty motor and is likely closer to a 4 HP motor (BTW, that's the motor I put on my Oneida). One other thing, if you vent outside you will probably increase the airflow, That's a good thing, unless you overload the motor (that's why I replaced the Baldor on mine). It also solves a lot of other problems (no filter cleaning, etc.) But that's a lot of CFM to pull out of the room and if there is, say, a gas water heater in there, you may also pull in exhaust fumes, blow out the pilot, or create some other problems. So keep thinking this through.


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## kinghong1970

thank you both for your replies...

spent some time looking at Bill Pentz's site again and still can't make up my mind.
as far as the cost is concerned, well, i've saved enough to afford a CV 5hp model or grizzly 3 hp unit or a pennstate equivalent... and i just need to get an electrician to run a 220v line.

@rrbrown
i do have a air filtration unit (old delta model that still runs, updated with filters and i keep this running when i'm at work) but each time i use my miter saw or table saw and working with mdf... i go to bed worrying... 

i did try those trash can lid separators... for the most part, they work... but i think they serve better as a means to extend longevity of the shopvac filter... and will not assure me of the fine dust issues.
i actually use it very well when doing some drywall work and such.

@Fred
my basement shop has a separate room/enclosure for the water heater which also vents directly to outdoors... and my forced air hvac (uses gas in winter for heating) has 4" pvc ducting that pulls fresh air from outside and vents outside as well... 

there is a partition wall that we had to remove the sheetrock due to water damage (pool plumbing leak flooded basement) but i've put moisture barrier/pvc sheeting at the moment and keep the doors closed for the time being.

if there is the case of negative pressure due to venting out, i can arrange to have air fed into basement as well from another source. call me naive but for some reason, i don't worry too much about displacement of air from the basement.

now re-reading Bill Pentz info... his specs for ducting, cfm and hp... am i correct in thinking that his "higher" specs were needed for the cyclone to create enough centrifugal force to remove small dust particles? if venting outdoors, wouldn't a 3hp model have enough cfm to remove the bigger particles, venting rest outdoors?

so i'm down to the following 220V single phase choices...

1) CV1800 + filter @ $1595 + $250 for electrical box
2) CV1800 vent outdoor @ $1385 +250 for electrical box
5HP 1,442 CFM, 
99.99% at .5 micron

3) Grizzly G0441 3HP @ $1450
3HP 1654 CFM @ 2.0" SP, 
99.9% at 0.2-2 micron 
Maximum Static Pressure 14.2"

4) PSI 3.5HP Tempest @ $1295
3.5HP 1700 CFM, 
99.9% @ 1/2 micron
Max Static Pressure 14.5"

and then there's Oneida... who seems to be waging war on both CV specs, CV build, Grizzly specs, & Grizzly build... lol!

5) Oneida 3HP Super Dust Gorilla @ $1680
3HP 1554 CFM @ 1.8 SP w/ Filter
99.977% efficient @ 0.3 to 0.5 microns (MERV Rating: 16+)

i like Oneida's claims... and i guess looking at the images, i'm leaning more towards oneida over grizzly... 

i wish all manufacturers used the same spec ratings and standards to make it easy to compare... 

thanks in advance,

Al


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## rrich

Let me toss a bit of gasoline on this fire.

I was about to buy a Oneida system but I couldn't understand the numbers. Then after looking at the shop and plumbing issues the only practical solution was to move the suckee hose to the machine that needs the dust collection.

Oneida tries to explain their numbers but nobody else uses them so they mean nothing. Also, any "Testing" done by one manufacturer of another manufacturer's is suspect, and I just don't believe the results.

I bought a Jet. Model? I don't know but I think it is good for 1100 CFM. It has the motor that can be converted to 230 Volt operation. The suckee hose is moved as needed. Also and this is far more critical, I installed two 1 micron bags on the dust collector. (Penn State generic variety bags) Also I bought a trash can separator from Woodcraft to fit a 30 gallon galvanized can.

Typically I empty the bottom DC bag every 5-6 months. The trash can is emptied every few weeks. My shop is in a garage. I work with the garage door open, always. I don't notice a fine layer of dust over everything. Maybe because the door is open? DUNNO? 

I've said this before, the layer of dust on the inside of the bag or filter makes the DC system more effective at trapping dust, HOWEVER, the same layer of dust reduces the the volume of air flow.

I look at it this way. If the plumbing and filter bag reduces my air flow from 1100 to 550 AND the dust in the bag further reduces the air flow to 400 or 350, that is enough for any machine that I connect to the dust collector. I don't have the means to measure the specific air flow and the number doesn't matter. When I'm running the planer I see all the chips being sucked through the hose and into the trash can separator.


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## Fred Hargis

kinghong1970 said:


> thank you both for your replies...
> 
> 
> now re-reading Bill Pentz info... his specs for ducting, cfm and hp... am i correct in thinking that his "higher" specs were needed for the cyclone to create enough centrifugal force to remove small dust particles? if venting outdoors, wouldn't a 3hp model have enough cfm to remove the bigger particles, venting rest outdoors?
> 
> 
> Al


It's been a while since I read through Bills's data, and it may have changes...but the way it read years ago was that capturing the finest dust particles required the huge air movement. Separating them from the airstream prior to the filter required the details of his cyclone design, the body dimensions, air ramps, inlet design, proper neutral vane and so on. Because this design has a huge drag on the system, and the you need huge air flow despite that design, you also need big motors and impellers. The need for good separation is to avoid frequent cleaning the expensive filters. (BTW, Oneida and CV have upgraded their filters since I bought mine to a higher MERV rating.) So, if you vent outside you really don't have to worry about separation...only getting sufficient airflow to capture the fine dust. I suspect the 3 HP model with the less restrictive cyclone design would move more than enough air, plus venting outside also removes any restriction the filter might have; providing even more air flow. As I recall Pentz suggested 1000 CFM _at the tool_. That's very hard to do with many of the factory ports on tools. I wish I could vent outside, it would solve all of my current complaints with my Oneida.


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## kinghong1970

Fred Hargis said:


> So, if you vent outside you really have to worry about separation...only getting sufficient airflow to capture the fine dust. I suspect the 3 HP model with the less restrictive cyclone design would move more than enough air, plus venting outside also removes any restriction the filter might have; providing even more air flow.


this is pretty much what i'm thinking... and my reason behind venting out... 
and with this in mind, not sure if i need to go to a 5 hp model...



Fred Hargis said:


> As I recall Pentz suggested 1000 CFM _at the tool_. That's very hard to do with many of the factory ports on tools.


yikes... 



Fred Hargis said:


> I wish I could vent outside, it would solve all of my current complaints with my Oneida.


out of curiosity, what model oneida do you have?
and what are your complaints?

thanks again,

Al


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## Fred Hargis

Al, in the first paragraph of mine that you quoted, there is a typo. It should read "So, if you vent outside you really *don't* have to worry about separation". Sorry 'bout that...my brain sometimes tries to outrun my fingers.

That aside, in my earlier post I mentioned the separation I get, and that's my biggest complaint. My model started life as a 2HP SDG. Because the motor was drawing way too many amps for it's size, I upsized it it to a 5 HP Leeson (from CV). That problem solved (not trivial, it cost about $400 to change everything over...eventually Oneida reimbursed me the cost) my current complaint ifs the frequent filter cleaning I have to do. This risks damage to the filter and is not a pleasant experience. I should point out, if I haven't already, that Oneida collected a great deal of data from me to "solve" the problem. They asked for, and I supplied, a layout of my system, pics, a sample of dust, what grit I ran on the DS, and I measured my separation (98.6%) for them. After all that, I never heard another word...I was dealing directly with Bill Witter the founder. Once again, these are my experiences/opinions, and I know all the other Oneida owners are quite a bit more happy with their DC than I am.

Oh, one other thing to consider....your system will need to be checked to insure the motor doesn't draw too many amps. That happens when the blower tries to move too much air (Oneida wants you test with ALL the gates open), the impeller slows down and the motor struggles to get back to stated RPM, drawing more juice. On my system, the motor overloaded with just one gate open. All this drival is to caution you that running with out the filter may be enough to overload the motor; just another consideration.


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## kinghong1970

Fred,

lol, despite the type, i read it the way you meant it...

that is interesting to hear about your Oneida.
as for DC, i see it serving 2 purposes, firstly, removing chips/dust from tool, second is to remove fine particles from air.
my shop vac serves me well to remove the chips... even after a job... but for home, i want a more "safer" solution as i do not want to expose my family to the perils of my hobby.

currently in process of building a CNC router and i suspect it'll also create a lot of dust as well...

now if your 2HP SDG was drawing too much amps, is it because it was not powerful enough? i thought motors burn out and draw lots of amps when they freely rotate w/o any ducting or housing.

as for you frequently cleaning the filter... not much of an issue when i vent outdoors... but hmm... is it the case that oneida's cyclone not removing enough particles before hitting the filter?
will CV's cyclone have enough stats to remove the particle or is CV also relying on the filter?

otoh, i saw a person on ebay selling a 3hp SDG for $1100... this is quite tempting... about 6 months of use and seems like a newer model.
maybe i'll drive up there and take a look.


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## Fred Hargis

kinghong1970 said:


> Fred,
> 
> now if your 2HP SDG was drawing too much amps, is it because it was not powerful enough? i thought motors burn out and draw lots of amps when they freely rotate w/o any ducting or housing.
> 
> as for you frequently cleaning the filter... not much of an issue when i vent outdoors... but hmm... is it the case that oneida's cyclone not removing enough particles before hitting the filter?
> will CV's cyclone have enough stats to remove the particle or is CV also relying on the filter?
> 
> otoh, i saw a person on ebay selling a 3hp SDG for $1100... this is quite tempting... about 6 months of use and seems like a newer model.
> maybe i'll drive up there and take a look.


My motor definitely did not have enough a$$ for my system, replacing it easily solved my overload....the new motor loafs along. For separation, my Oneida drops everything except the fine dust into the catch can, and the Oneida manual seems to indicate they expect it to work this way (still better than having it in the shop). I have a friend who built his own Pentz cyclone (CV design) and then plumbed it to blow through the filter from the outside in. Maybe that wasn't necessary, but it did allow a good look at what got to the filter, and after 3 years he still did not have any dust build up on it. CV does not give a separation percentage, but it has to be very close to 100%. But like you said, venting outside; who cares? If you see a great buy on a used 3 HP Oneida I think I'd grab under those conditions.


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## kinghong1970

well, i guess i bought myself a nice b-day present...

after sleeping on it for a couple of days, i went ahead and confirmed the order for a CV1800LH.
yea, the oneida is built like a tank... but i think i rather have the assurance that a CV seems to offer.

thanks all for your help.

cheers.

Al


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## Fred Hargis

Congrats Al, there is no doubt in my mind you will be happy with your purchase. After you get it set up, I'd be interested to hear your personal impressions/opinions of the unit.


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## kinghong1970

will do...
i opted to go with the filter for the time being...
i'll work out the venting out solution later on after i'm done with most renovations in the house.

but i'll take tons of photos and logs.


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## Okietoker

I appreciate the great conversation on this thread. 

However, I am still confused on one item. Someone in the thread was mentioning that the Oneida is a dusty mess to clean. Are u saying that the clearvue is easy to clean? Doesn't it have a canister to trap dust or does that just fill with large chips and the large filter traps small dust particles? Clarify if u can. Thanks in advance


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## kinghong1970

Flyexpert,

firstly, sorry if i've hijacked your thread...

as far as Oneida vs CV, hard to compare or give you comparisons as nobody owns a Oneida and a CV... maybe someone may have moved from one to another or whatnot... but here's my thought process...

woodworking creates chips, larger dust and fine dust
removing chips and larger dust is easy, get thien or a separator kit from various vendors.
but removing the finer dust is the most important factor for me as my shop is in the basement and i don't want to expose my family to the mess.

oneida vs cv, oneida makes one convincing argument about build quality and even their comparison chart made me waver in my decision...
i wish cv had more "rigid" construction as i would not have minded paying a bit more for a CV/Pentz based system with metal construction... but that is not so.

one thing i had to admit is that reading and re-reading the wealth of information that Bill Pentz posted on his website... gave me more confidence that cv is the way to go.

as for cleaning filters... grizzly models, and some delta canister dust collector models have a brush that goes around or up and down to release dust stuck in the filters...
both Oneida and CV option is to take compressed air and blowing it against the filter... either one is pretty much the same.

now which system will remove more dust particles before it hits the filter? for some reason, i felt that CV would... and hence my choice in CV.

i did purchase the filtered system... but i will, eventually exhaust outside as soon as i have made arrangement to supply air back to the shop.
don't know what your setup will be or where it will be...
if you're filtering outdoors, i don't think you can go wrong with either, as long as you have enough air movement to remove the fine dust particle... 

hope it helps.... if any...

and good luck.

regards,

Al

oh, Oneida systems come with a removable filter cleanout tray... CV, you need to purchase a bottom cleanout attachment
but you will still need to manually blow compressed air through the filters...


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## Fred Hargis

Flyexpert said:


> I appreciate the great conversation on this thread.
> 
> However, I am still confused on one item. Someone in the thread was mentioning that the Oneida is a dusty mess to clean. Are u saying that the clearvue is easy to clean? Doesn't it have a canister to trap dust or does that just fill with large chips and the large filter traps small dust particles? Clarify if u can. Thanks in advance


You called it right....the canister just catches to larger chips that get to the filter, and maybe just a very small amount of the finest parricles. But if you blow the filter out while it's still mounted on the DC, then those particles will also fall into the canister for you to dump. For the record, my experience says that cleaning any filter (Oneida's.CV/or single stage bags) is a dusty mess if you remove it to clean (my practice). If you just blow them out, or rotate the paddles, or some other routine it's not nearly the mess, but then you don't get nearly as clean as removing it and working on it freestanding. As an example, I clean my filter when my gauge reads above 2 1/4" SP. If I blow the filter out, the guage drops very slightly, but still above 2". If I remove the filter, blow it out, then drop it gently on it's side several time, then vacuum the inside with a brush...the guage drops to a hair under 2". The gauge is a Magnehelic I mounted on the discharge side of the blower.


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## woodnthings

*cleaning the cannister filter...*

Thanks for the tip. I always have spun the paddles, let the dust settle and then "gently" removed the fiter. Then I take it outside and dump it and roll it back and forth. All this never really resulted in a clean filter. :no:

I'm thinking a* blast of air* on the outside towards the center would dislodge much more of the fine dust that accumulates right along the bottom ledge. I run the overhead air filter when doing this but it is still an unpleasant task. :yes: bill


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## drwise

Congrats Al. You made the right choice.

I'm not sure what all the hype is around MDF and the plastic in dust collection. I've had my 1800 for years and I've never had an issue. The plastic is thick and the dust and chips don't phase it one bit, not to mention it is cool to watch. :icon_smile:

Congrats again and Happy Belated Birthday!


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## woodnthings

*What can you tell us about the Magnehelic guage?*



Fred Hargis said:


> ....... As an example, I clean my filter when my gauge reads above 2 1/4" SP. If I blow the filter out, the guage drops very slightly, but still above 2". If I remove the filter, blow it out, then drop it gently on it's side several time, then vacuum the inside with a brush...the guage drops to a hair under 2". The gauge is a Magnehelic I mounted on the discharge side of the blower.


How does it work, where do you locate it and is it permanently mounted.... etc. A brief discussion would be great for those who would like to verify "improvements" in their DC systems. They are sold on EBay so I see, not too expensive: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=MAGNEHELIC Much appreciated, bill


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## Fred Hargis

Bill,
Magnehelic is a brand name, and it's just a simple pressure/vacuum guage. I bought mine off e-bay, 2 of them, for about $30 each as I recall. I have one mounted on the discharge plenum of my DC, and it's sole purpose if to help me keep track of when I need to clean the filter. Oneida sells a similar setup, but I think it's well over $100. Installing it was little more than drilling a hole into the DC and putting the NPT fitting in (flush with the inner surface). Then just connect it to the proper nipple on the gauge. Truthfully, I have no idea if I'm using the correct guideline, but I clean when the gauge exceed 2 1/4". When I clean real good, it will drop to slightly below 2". You'll notice in the pic this gauge has a scale from 0-10" (they come in different values). I tried using my other one (0-4") and had so much needle bounce I couldn't read where it was. I bought the 0-4" gauge thinking I would get a pitot tube and measure air flow, something I haven't done yet. In any case, this has worked for me since my filter needs frequent cleaning. Let me know if I didn't hit something more specific, but here's a pic of the guage and the airtap I put in. BTW, the moveable marker isn't set there for any reason, that's just the way it came.


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## jigs-n-fixtures

Just a thought: A simple manometer, made from clear tubing and filled with mineral oil, connected across the blower unit will tell you how much suction you have. 

If you record a reading with just a clean filter installed you will know how much drop the filter causes. this is the baseline to measure from. Then observe how effective the system is at picking up larger sawdust and chips. Keep an eye on how effectively the system does this as it clogs, and when it doesn't pick up the large particles it is at the limiting clogging factor. Take a manometer reading and that will tell you when you are getting close to the clogging limit in the future. 

If the system has sufficient air flow and suction to move the larger particles, it has more than enough energy available to keep the fine particles moving.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## Fred Hargis

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> Just a thought: A simple manometer, made from clear tubing and filled with mineral oil, connected across the blower unit will tell you how much suction you have.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


I did think about that, but with the cost of the gauge being as cheap as it is, this was much quicker. I would have filled the manometer with water, which would have meant some routine maintenance of some kind as well...if mineral oil works it would solve the evaporation problem I wuld have had with H20.


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## kinghong1970

well, it's been a couple of days and i will receive the electronics box today...
i guess i'll call the electrician over the weekend and have it mounted and connected and ready to go.

still trying to figure out how i'm going to run the tubes.

i found my local building supply shop has 6" sdr 20 pvc pipes @ $2.18/ft and sold in 10' lengths... not sure if i am going all out on the pvc 45's... or just try to minimize the flex duct tubing in just the connections... 

anywhoo, as soon as i get some progress, i'll create a new thread and keep you guys posted.



drwise said:


> Congrats Al. You made the right choice.
> 
> I'm not sure what all the hype is around MDF and the plastic in dust collection. I've had my 1800 for years and I've never had an issue. The plastic is thick and the dust and chips don't phase it one bit, not to mention it is cool to watch. :icon_smile:


thank you... i'm sure i'll be satisfied overall with the system... i tend to be a bit too critical (20+ years of QC'ing garment factories did this to me...)

i do work with some aluminum... hope it'll be ok.



drwise said:


> Congrats again and Happy Belated Birthday!


thank you!


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## JoeNY

kinghong1970 said:


> still trying to figure out how i'm going to run the tubes.
> 
> i found my local building supply shop has 6" sdr 20 pvc pipes @ $2.18/ft and sold in 10' lengths... not sure if i am going all out on the pvc 45's... or just try to minimize the flex duct tubing in just the connections...


In the end you will be much happier if you plumb the whole thing in 6" S&D pvc, including all turns and gates. Mine is 8" metal 45 to 45 to get it to the ceiling and then into a 8"x6"x6" metal Y that serves as the connection point to my main 6" pvc branches. I have aluminum 6" gates for most of my machines with 6" hose going to reducers as needed on the machines.


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## kinghong1970

JoeNY said:


> In the end you will be much happier if you plumb the whole thing in 6" S&D pvc, including all turns and gates. Mine is 8" metal 45 to 45 to get it to the ceiling and then into a 8"x6"x6" metal Y that serves as the connection point to my main 6" pvc branches. I have aluminum 6" gates for most of my machines with 6" hose going to reducers as needed on the machines.


yea, in my mind, it tells me that all pvc is the way to go... but my basement shop has a bit of i beam and support columns here and there... and so still trying to figure things out.

btw, you are running a 8" main on a clearvue? cv1800 or cvmax?

mind sharing some pictures for inspiration?


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## JoeNY

I have a 11 year old 3hp Oneida.


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## Beckerkumm

I'm new here but have used and upgraded my DC from a 2 hp single bagger to a 3 hp cyclone, to a 5 hp cyclone with different types of fans to finally a 7.5 hp radial blade cincinnati fan with a torit 20" cyclone. Just means I'm never right the first time. The clearvue, as others have said is the superior separator of fine dust, the oneida has the better motor. Both use a backward inclined fan which sacrifices some performance under pressure for better efficiency at low pressure and is much quieter and generally won't overamp the motor as a straight blade can do. The clearvue system will deliver 1000 cfm through 6" pipe but that pipe also limits it's capacity as opposed to a 7" main which brings out the full potential of the system. Static pressure is the enemy of BI fans so pulling air through the larger main- even when restricted at the machine port- greatly increases the velocity and cfm at the machine. Almost all machines can benefit from increased air velocity and the extra expense for the spiral main and a couple of long radius ells will justify the additional fan and motor size as compared to a 3 hp 14" impeller system. I run old cast iron machines - 16" jointer, 24" planer with pretty mediocre DC and try to pull 7000 fpm at the ports to compensate for the poor shrouding. Actually a 5 hp system can use 8" mains but the clearvue is sized better for 7" to maximise separation. Remember effective separation of any cyclone changes with the inlet velocity of the air so you can under or overpower it. Dave


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## Design

I've spent the better part of the last 3 weeks looking for a DC. Bill Pentz design my be good but i have little faith in MDF and Vivac (PETG). Ive used Torit in the past but not in the budget for this shop.

I have worked PETG for many years and when cold or hot formed it becomes brittle. MDF doesnt stand up well to water (damp wood). Honestly, i cant see spending 1400 on a DC that i have to buid out of fake Polycarb and Ikea wood.

We settled on the Oneida 5hp pro system and norfab ductwork. I have used norfab on 3 shops now and have to say: Its expensive, but worth every penny.

Works great for collecting fine polyurethane foam dust off saws and CNC. Dust from the CNC is talc like and still no visible dust in the filter.

All machines will do a good job as long as your duct design is correct. I prefer to use a USA made machines and ductwork.


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## Design

kinghong1970 said:


> well, it's been a couple of days and i will receive the electronics box today...
> i guess i'll call the electrician over the weekend and have it mounted and connected and ready to go.
> 
> still trying to figure out how i'm going to run the tubes.
> 
> i found my local building supply shop has 6" sdr 20 pvc pipes @ $2.18/ft and sold in 10' lengths... not sure if i am going all out on the pvc 45's... or just try to minimize the flex duct tubing in just the connections...
> 
> anywhoo, as soon as i get some progress, i'll create a new thread and keep you guys posted.
> 
> 
> 
> thank you... i'm sure i'll be satisfied overall with the system... i tend to be a bit too critical (20+ years of QC'ing garment factories did this to me...)
> 
> i do work with some aluminum... hope it'll be ok.
> 
> 
> 
> thank you!


BTW: I hope your joking, but if not

Do not mix aluminum with your wood dust! In fact you should NEVER EVER collect aluminum dust. It acts as a oxidizer and can explode like a bomb. Most people don't understand that aluminum is like black gun powder when in dust form.

Just unhook the pipe and sweep it up with a broom.


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## kinghong1970

Design said:


> BTW: I hope your joking, but if not
> 
> Do not mix aluminum with your wood dust! In fact you should NEVER EVER collect aluminum dust. It acts as a oxidizer and can explode like a bomb. Most people don't understand that aluminum is like black gun powder when in dust form.
> 
> Just unhook the pipe and sweep it up with a broom.


Design, thank you for your input...

i do try my best to separate and do not collect together... but tbh, i was not aware... thank you very much...

hmm... we should send e-mail to mythbuster about aluminum dust... just to see things blow up.


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## Design

sorry but my post was a little backward.

The wood dust acts as an oxidizer to the aluminum dust. 


Thermite, Fireworks, solid rocket fuel all contain aluminum dust.

Good luck, hope your DC works well for you


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