# Building a wood body hand plane



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I have been looking for a plane mechanism to purchase with the intent of building my own plane. I'd like to find hardware in a kit and supply my own wood. Found a Veritas I liked but was looking for other options. 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Have you looked at the Bay for a part plane..?


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Hock has one: http://www.hocktools.com/Kits.htm 

As far as 'mechanism' goes, though, I don't think I've seen one apart from the Veritas. The others are all wedge that I've seen.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

acowboy said:


> Have you looked at the Bay for a part plane..?


I'd like to end up with one similar to an ECE. don't want to have to pound on the blade to adjust it.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Look for a Norris style blade adjuster with a Norris or Mathison(sp) blade. they will be a bit on the pricey side. upwards of $60 for the adjuster alone, blade with a cap iron in the range of $50 or so. But you will be able to make what ever you want from these two pieces.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Gilgaron said:


> Hock has one: http://www.hocktools.com/Kits.htm
> 
> As far as 'mechanism' goes, though, I don't think I've seen one apart from the Veritas. The others are all wedge that I've seen.


I was afraid of that. The Veritas is around $40 bucks. It does look like a good product. I know the Hock products are very high quality but I don't want to put that much into one plane. I'm not a full fledged hand tool guy but do use them.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Wema826 said:


> Look for a Norris style blade adjuster with a Norris or Mathison(sp) blade. they will be a bit on the pricey side. upwards of $60 for the adjuster alone, blade with a cap iron in the range of $50 or so. But you will be able to make what ever you want from these two pieces.


Al mentioned the Lee Valley kit which includes blade and Norris style adjuster for $45. I think it is a decent price.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71379&cat=1,230,41182,46334


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I was afraid of that. The Veritas is around $40 bucks. It does look like a good product. I know the Hock products are very high quality but I don't want to put that much into one plane. I'm not a full fledged hand tool guy but do use them.
> 
> Al
> 
> Nails only hold themselves.


I doubt anyone else would have such a mechanism for less... economics of scale would make me think a bigger outfit like Lee Valley would be cheapest.

If you have taps and dies and so forth you could try to make one but I doubt you'd save money by the time you gathered or made the necessary parts, so scavenging from a broken eBay plane may be the only other way to go.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Al mentioned the Lee Valley kit which includes blade and Norris style adjuster for $45. I think it is a decent price.
> 
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71379&cat=1,230,41182,46334


Yes. It is a decent price.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Gilgaron said:


> I doubt anyone else would have such a mechanism for less... economics of scale would make me think a bigger outfit like Lee Valley would be cheapest.
> 
> If you have taps and dies and so forth you could try to make one but I doubt you'd save money by the time you gathered or made the necessary parts, so scavenging from a broken eBay plane may be the only other way to go.


After doing some research on Norris. Which is part of my build process. I like the Norris style. I'm gaining info about the guy and the adjuster. Seems the way to go for this time.

I do have taps and dies and was thinking about making it. If I'm correct the lower screw is reverse thread. That's the only ones I'd need to purchase. But I may purchase the Veritas unit first go around. I bought a Biesemyer fence once and then made two clones for other saws. 

Thanks

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Wema826 said:


> Yes. It is a decent price.


Your right. I found another for $75.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Are you planning on making it a York pitch smoother or keep it at 45 degrees?


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Are you planning on making it a York pitch smoother or keep it at 45 degrees?


I believe it's a bevel down 45 smooth plane. What can you tell me about this type?

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

The Lee Valley instructions are for a 45 degree bedding angle which is the same as most bench planes. A lot of the English infill smoothing planes (Norris and others) were made with a bedding angle of 50 degrees (York pitch) or 55 degrees (Middle pitch). The higher angles allow smoothing difficult grain with less tear out. 

Essentially, you are moving the cutting angle towards what you would have with a scraper while still taking a shaving. 

The higher bed angle also makes it harder to push/cut, so there is a trade off to working difficult grain with these planes. Because they require more force to cut, the heavy infill planes were developed to help lessen the chatter you can get with difficult cutting.

Is it feasible to make a lower weight wood plane with a York pitch? Would it be too light and have lots of chatter??? Don't really know.....

Nevertheless, I think when I get to the point of making mine, I'm probably going to make it York pitch and see what happens. I've already got a good metal smoother at 45 degrees, so it will be more of an experiment than anything. I'm also thinking about using the tapered blade from Lee Valley which is 3/16" thick at the bevel and should help reduce chatter. Of course, that is a wedged blade and won't work with the adjustment mechanism they sell.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> The Lee Valley instructions are for a 45 degree bedding angle which is the same as most bench planes. A lot of the English infill smoothing planes (Norris and others) were made with a bedding angle of 50 degrees (York pitch) or 55 degrees (Middle pitch). The higher angles allow smoothing difficult grain with less tear out.
> 
> Essentially, you are moving the cutting angle towards what you would have with a scraper while still taking a shaving.
> 
> ...


Do you have experience with any Norris style adjusters? 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Yeah, in fact I've got one on my Veritas low angle smooth plane - I love it, the plane and the adjuster. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=45864&cat=1,41182,52515

I don't know if it's the exact size that the block plane kit uses, but I'd be happy to measure it and shoot some closeup pictures if that's what you are looking for.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

be sure to do a WIP and post it a link here so I can find it. Im interested in what you come up with.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Yeah, in fact I've got one on my Veritas low angle smooth plane - I love it, the plane and the adjuster. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=45864&cat=1,41182,52515
> 
> I don't know if it's the exact size that the block plane kit uses, but I'd be happy to measure it and shoot some closeup pictures if that's what you are looking for.


The link you sent is a bevel up low angle. Quite a bit different. Do you use it for smoothing? Should I forgo the bevel down 45? Nothing really special about it. Might not be worth the trouble. 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I do use it for smoothing, and it is great for that. In fact I rarely use my restored Stanley #4 now that I have that Veritas plane.


The reason I included the link is that it uses the same Norris type adjuster as the block plane kit. 

If you were thinking about making your own adjuster for a wooden smooth plane I'd shoot some pictures and take some measurements to help you along the way.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:



> I do use it for smoothing, and it is great for that. In fact I rarely use my restored Stanley #4 now that I have that Veritas plane.
> 
> The reason I included the link is that it uses the same Norris type adjuster as the block plane kit.
> 
> If you were thinking about making your own adjuster for a wooden smooth plane I'd shoot some pictures and take some measurements to help you along the way.


I haven't decided yet. I would like to find a low angle kit but I'm not finding anything without the wood included. 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

FYI, Here are a few pictures of my low angle smoother and some closeups of the Norris adjuster:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

What can the group here tell me about the blade angle of a smoother? Blade up or down? Low angle is better and preferred?

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'll jump in a give it a go, I'm sure others will follow along with their comments as well.

For sake of discussion, I'll compare the Stanley Bailey (SB) #4 smooth plane with others that are offered by other manufacturers. For the sake of discussion I'll also talk about the Veritas (V) and Lie Nielson (LN) planes.

A commonly used smooth plane is the SB #4 which has a 2" wide blade and is 9" long. The blade is bedded at 45 degrees and the blade is held bevel down and utilizes a chip breaker. Since the flat side of the blade is up, essentially the angle you are cutting at is 45 degrees.

Both Veritas and Lie Nielsen offer similar planes with the same width blades held bevel down and even use the same numbering as the SB planes. The V and LN planes both use a bed angle of 45 like the SB.

In the past few years both V and LN have developed a line of low angle bench planes including a low angle smoothing plane. In these low angle planes, the blade is bevel up and is held at a bedding angle of 12 degrees. Since the bevel is up on these planes, the cutting angle is the bedding angle plus the bevel angle.

So, if the bedding angle is 12 degrees and the bevel is ground at 25 degrees, the cutting angle is 37 degrees, several degrees lower than the old SB planes. 

There are several advantages of the low angle smooth planes. First, you don't have a chip breaker, so fewer things to adjust. You don't have a separate frog, so the attachment of the blade to the plane is stronger. Also the new low angle planes have adjustable mouths (which the older SB don't) which helps when taking fine cuts. The lower angle also makes for easier cutting on end grain. In addition, the new low angle planes are machined very well and excel as shooting planes.

The bevel up planes have another advantage in that by honing a steeper micro bevel on them, you are changing the cutting angle which can help when working difficult grain. For example, if you hone a 38 degree micro bevel, you have changed the cutting angle to 50 degrees which is the angle that the English style infill smooth planes use. Of course if you do this with your blade it will not function as well when working end grain.

To add to the choices available, with the Lie Nielsen "traditional" bevel down planes, you can purchase high angle frogs which change the bedding angle from 45 degrees to either 50 or 55 degrees. Thus changing the cutting angle to those attainable with the low angle planes and a steep micro bevel.

With all these options, the choice really depends on how you want to use the plane, what types of wood you deal with and of course, how much you want to spend. 

I have a lot of reclaimed oak that has many knots and difficult grain, so I love the Veritas low angle smoother I bought about 5 months ago. It is now the only plane I use with my shooting board. 

I plan sometime in the near future to make a wooden smooth plane and I will probably make it with a bedding angle of 50 degrees. I want to see what the higher cutting angle will do for me in working on difficult grain. I could always just hone a steeper micro bevel on the low angle plane I have, but I use it a lot for shooting end grain and want to keep the lower angle for that. I suppose I could buy another blade for the low angle plane, but if I'm going to buy a blade, I might as well go ahead and make a plane body to use it in.

For everyone's convenience here are some links:

The first is a link to Veritas low angle planes:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=52515&cat=1,41182

Next is Lie Nielsen low angle planes:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/low-angle-bench-planes/

And finally a link to Lie Nielsen high angle frogs:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/high-angle-frogs/

I hope this clarifies things instead of muddying the waters.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> I'll jump in a give it a go, I'm sure others will follow along with their comments as well.
> 
> For sake of discussion, I'll compare the Stanley Bailey (SB) #4 smooth plane with others that are offered by other manufacturers. For the sake of discussion I'll also talk about the Veritas (V) and Lie Nielson (LN) planes.
> 
> ...


The purpose of this thread for me is to narrow down an adjustment mechanism for a plane I'm going to build. I'm going to go with the Norris style adjuster from Veritas. It also comes with a plan. The adjuster comes with a bevel down blade seated on a 45. If this is common for a smooth plane. That's what I'll build. If the blade and adjuster can be configured in a bevel up low angle plane then I'd like to know if I should build a low angle plane.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I don't think a wood body low angle plane would work well. The stress would be very high on a relatively thin sole and I think it would have too much flex. In addition, to be able to use the Norris adjuster, the sides of the plane would need to be open around the rear of the adjuster which would cause a lot of stress on the sides.

I think you'll be very happy with the Norris adjuster and plans from Veritas . Using the blade bevel down, bedded at 45 degrees has been the most common configuration for a very long time and obviously works well.

Looking forward to seeing some pictures when you get to the build.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> I don't think a wood body low angle plane would work well. The stress would be very high on a relatively thin sole and I think it would have too much flex. In addition, to be able to use the Norris adjuster, the sides of the plane would need to be open around the rear of the adjuster which would cause a lot of stress on the sides.
> 
> I think you'll be very happy with the Norris adjuster and plans from Veritas . Using the blade bevel down, bedded at 45 degrees has been the most common configuration for a very long time and obviously works well.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing some pictures when you get to the build.


Thanks

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Derek Cohen (Aug 14, 2007)

trc65 said:


> I don't think a wood body low angle plane would work well. The stress would be very high on a relatively thin sole and I think it would have too much flex. In addition, to be able to use the Norris adjuster, the sides of the plane would need to be open around the rear of the adjuster which would cause a lot of stress on the sides.
> 
> I think you'll be very happy with the Norris adjuster and plans from Veritas . Using the blade bevel down, bedded at 45 degrees has been the most common configuration for a very long time and obviously works well.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing some pictures when you get to the build.


Tim, the LN and LV planes are made of ductile iron, which is different to the grey iron of yesteryear. Ductile iron can withstand a great deal of abuse, even being dropped from a great height. The grey iron of the vintage Stanley plane is fragile, and dropping it off your bench will result in a crack.

The early bevel up (or low angle) planes made by Stanley, notable the #164 and the #62, were vulnerable to cracking at the mouth owing to the grey iron not withstanding the stresses there. Today the LN and LV versions are extremely durable. They will not suffer any similar damage.

You will find a number of reviews of BU planes on my website, here:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/index.html

There is a comparison of BU and BD planes here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BUvsBD.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Derek, I think you misunderstood me, and/or I wasn't very clear in my post. I was trying to say that building a _wooden bodied low angle plane_ isn't feasible because of the stresses.

I own a Veritas low angle (BU) smoother and love it!

Thanks for the links to your website, you've got a lot of fantastic information/resources.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Derek Cohen said:


> Tim, the LN and LV planes are made of ductile iron, which is different to the grey iron of yesteryear. Ductile iron can withstand a great deal of abuse, even being dropped from a great height. The grey iron of the vintage Stanley plane is fragile, and dropping it off your bench will result in a crack.
> 
> The early bevel up (or low angle) planes made by Stanley, notable the #164 and the #62, were vulnerable to cracking at the mouth owing to the grey iron not withstanding the stresses there. Today the LN and LV versions are extremely durable. They will not suffer any similar damage.
> 
> ...


I'm the OP here and want to know if you think I can build a wooden low angle BU smoothing plane?

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Derek Cohen (Aug 14, 2007)

I have built a BU woodie with a bed angle of 15 degrees, however this was a specialised one for chamfering, and the sole is thick and the wood is hard and tough Jarrah ...










However, I would not build a BU wood bench plane. It would be too fragile around the mouth. 

Now if you are simply after a low angle woodie, that is one that planes at the same low 38 degrees that a BU metal plane (such as a LV LA Jack) can do, then that is very doable. I have built both long LA wooden planes for a shooting board (called a Strike Block Plane), as well as small block planes, which are for one-handed use (same as a metal block plane). The technique is to build a plane with a bed that is 38 degrees and use it bevel down. Use a blade with a 25 degree single bevel (I hollow grind mind at this angle).

This is a solid body Strike Block Plane ...










There is a build pictorial here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaStrikeBlockPlane.html

This is a low angle block plane (foreground) alongside a high angle smoother (background), both built in the Krenov style ...










There is a build pictorial here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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