# Sliding Miter Saw vs Table Saw



## Derstig (Jan 2, 2016)

Hello,

I am a very much beginner and do this as a hobby. I currently have basic hand tools and find doing any project very difficult with using circular saw and hand saw. I do a lot of mortise and tenon joins on large lumber 2x4 and 4x4.

I am looking into buying another saw but have around 600-700 bucks to spend. I was thinking of getting a dws780 and because it has depth guide, I could do my joins that way. Or I could get a non sliding miter and a basic $400 dewalt table saw. I just dont see the point of the table saw if I have a good sliding miter saw for the type of work I do. This is probably because I am new and dont understand these tools which is why I am here. I was thinking the miter saw can easily work for precise mortise/tenon join work and can also be used with dado blades.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*without writing a book ....*

Table saws RIP best and have a rip fence. Ripping is cutting down the length of a board.

Miter and chop saws CROSSCUT best and that's cutting across the width of the board..

A dado is best cut on the table saw using a dado blade. You can make multiple cut using a mitersaw, but it will take forever. 

The tablesaw cuts from the bottom up, the mitersaws cut from the top down. Table saws handle larger pieces of plywood best. Mitersaws can only cut up to about 13" or so depending on the travel and blade diameter. To cut small pieces on a mitersaw you better clamp them down or you may loose a finger. Very small pieces can be safely cut ion a tablesaw using a sled or the miter gauge with an extended or sacrificial fence.

You can make tenons on the tablesaw using a tenoning jig. Making a tenon on a miter saw will take multiple cuts and some hand work. Tenons are really best cut on a bandsaw ... just my opinion and that of some pretty good woodworkers.

You can't make a mortise on either type of saw.

Mortises are best made, and I mean fastest using a plunge router and a centering guide..... just my opinion and that of some pretty good woodworkers. You can also hand chisel them, use a hollow chisel mortiser or a drill press with a tenoning attachment.

There is a reason woodworkers have those different types of machines.... one machine can't do it all. There is a machine that comes close, but it is frowned upon by some who have safety concerns, it's the Radial Arm Saw or RAS. It can do a whole lot of different cuts like ripping, crosscutting, making dados, make moldings using a molding head, etc. ....BUT there is a learning curve to use it safely. I love them and have several, but I also have several table saws and several bandsaws. :blink: Each saw is set up with a particular blade best for a special operation ... ripping or resawing on the bandsaw, crosscutting on the RAS and tablesaw,or cutting curves on the bandsaw, and on the RAS and table saw making dados. I hate changing out blades so using multiple machines saves my gobs of time and frustration.

I hope this clears things up a bit. :smile:


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## Derstig (Jan 2, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> Table saws RIP best and have a rip fence. Ripping is cutting down the length of a board.
> 
> Miter and chop saws CROSSCUT best and that's cutting across the width of the board..
> 
> ...


Yes that does clear things up a lot I appreciate it.

I understand that there is no one machine that does it all, however, I am not a professional and have limited funds for this. At the moment, I cut my tenons using nothing but a backsaw and use spade bits followed by a chisel for the mortises. I do this even on massive 4x4 lumber where my mortises are over 2.5 inches tall So yes when you say with miter saw it will take "forever" while that is true, with respect to where I am now, I think it will be significantly quicker, and mpre importantly accurate. 

My number one reason for doing this upgrade is accuracy, speed comes next. I spend so much time with so many different rulers and triangles to mark and make a proper cross cut using circular saw, but no matter what I do, two pieces of wood I cut always have differences somewhere and makes it extremely difficult to build something proper. I m sure you understand.

My only issue with a table saw is, it still presents me the same problem I have. When it comes to cross cutting, there is a vertical range of motion. Instead of circular saw moving towards the lumber, now lumber is moving towards the table saw. I dont think I will be able to make precise and even cuts without investing into bunch of other additional equipment to make a table saw more precise. With a miter, I can buy one, set it up, and cut them with precision in a matter of minutes.

When we are comparing the two, please consider that my budget is $600. So my best bet is either getting a high end miter saw that slides or getting a cheap table saw. I am not going to he able to get a constructors table saw with all bells and whistles for $2000.

Also, since the miter saw is sliding, isnt it going to take significantly less time to do tenons compared to a regular miter saw? You make 2 cuts, turn the piece perpendicular, one cut, flip, another cut, and finish it with a hand saw/chisel if necessary. Right now it takes me around 30-45 minutes to do 1 single tenon on a 4x4 lumber just to give you an idea


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I have to agree with you about your understanding of tools and what they do. A miter saw is not the proper tool for tenons. That's not to say that you can't but the process and tool will present numerous problems for you. You cannot use dado blades on a miter saw.


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## Minnesota Marty (Feb 27, 2015)

Derstig, 
My fellow contributor here Woodnthings has probably forgot more about woodworking than I know. His knowledge is amazing. 
I am a design/build contractor. So, for my needs I need portability and accuracy. One of the considerations that I think you need to make is that if you are stationary or mobile? 
If stationary, the tools tend to cost more but are more accurate. Now, by accurate I mean within a 1/64 of an inch. 
If mobile, the tools tend to be more lightweight and somewhat less accurate. 

Have said that, I agree with Woodnthings on the tools selection for being stationary. If mobile, instead of a table saw look at a track saw with some adaptions for ripping smaller stock. For a Miter saw look at the Bosch axial glide saw or the Hitachi compound slide miter saw that can set close to the wall. 
Just my opinion 

Marty


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*For large timbers ....*

Since you can't make mortises on either type of saw, then I would look into a bandsaw.

While it's easier to move the saw than move a large timber accurately, I would opt for a decent size bandsaw. 
I can make tenons on a bandsaw accurately and very quickly, but an end support makes things much easier.

Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLIHu_49tmc


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

Woodnthings is spot on about the band saw but if you want a larger (say 14 + inches), you're going to pay more then your allowance. 

Don't give up on the accuracy of a table saw. A trick to achieving accurate repetitive cuts with a ts is to use a strong magnet on the table. Understand the magnet needs to be placed in advance of the spinning blade to avoid a nasty situation called kick back. Once the magnet is properly placed, all you need do is to butt your stock against it and cut (don't butt so hard as to move the magnet). 

Before you proceed with your purchase, think beyond the present projects you are building. You may get bitten by the woodworking bug and want to expand your skills in the near future. I've been hacking for 40 years and seriously refining my skills in the past 10. I now build fine furniture and I have never owned a miter saw. 

One more very important point - do go to your library and check out at least one book for each of the tools you are considering. Without reading from cover to cover - familiarize your self with them and learn about the safety issues of each... Be safe and welcome to the site!


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

A miter saw crosscuts, a table saw does pretty much everything. Crosscuts, ripping, dados, cutting joinery, you name it and a table saw can probably do it, and likely with higher accuracy than all but the priciest scms to boot.

If you're worried about price on a table saw, well, dont. $600 is enough to get a pretty nice saw. Check out the Delta 36-725. It's an extremely awesome tool that will easily handle your requirements (make accurate crosscuts, rip lumber, cut joinery, fit a dado blade), and runs $600, but can be found on sale occasionally. I'm not saying a SCMS is a bad tool, just that a table saw should definitely be first on the list


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## Derstig (Jan 2, 2016)

Interesting, you guys are certainly very helpful and I think all this time I was misinformed. I always thought that a miter saw was like the screwdriver of the saws, something every household should have. But I guess I was wrong, which is fine.

One issue I have right now with my circular saw which I was hoping the sliding miter saw would address is the fact that I have to flip a 4x4 twice before doing a cross cut. The blade is just not deep enough. Would a table saw (in my price range) be able to cut through a 4x4? If not, how do you deal with uneven cuts?

Also, what do you guys think about the dewalt table saw that sells for $399?


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

epicfail48 said:


> A miter saw crosscuts, *a table saw does pretty much everything. Crosscuts, ripping, dados, cutting joinery, you name it and a table saw can probably do it, and likely with higher accuracy than all but the priciest scms to boot.*
> 
> *If you're worried about price on a table saw, well, dont.* *$600 is enough to get a pretty nice saw.* Check out the Delta 36-725. It's an extremely awesome tool that will easily handle your requirements (make accurate crosscuts, rip lumber, cut joinery, fit a dado blade), and runs $600, but can be found on sale occasionally. I'm not saying a SCMS is a bad tool, *just that a table saw should definitely be first on the list*


Absolutely, Completely agree... :thumbsup:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Derstig said:


> Also, what do you guys think about the dewalt table saw that sells for $399?


 
Too small in my opinion. I wouldn't have one. (guessing you are talking about one of those portable jobsite table saws)

Buy a used table saw and spend a little bit more (than 400) for a much larger and more powerful machine with a LOT more usefulness in the long run. :yes:


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

It is very difficult to push long 4X4's across a small table saw to make tenons. 
It is much easier using a dado blade on a radial arm saw. 
A sliding miter saw will do the job, but will a SMS accept a dado head?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Exactly!*



Toolman50 said:


> It is very difficult to push long 4X4's across a small table saw to make tenons.
> It is much easier using a dado blade on a radial arm saw.
> 
> :thumbsup:
> ...


The RAS is a great way to cut large tenons with a dado head. IT is exactly correct about moving the saw carriage being easier than moving a large timber on a table saw.You can turn the saw carriage at 90 degrees to the fence and push the timber along the fence at what ever position that will make your tenon dimensions. Then you flip it over and make the cut in the same position and you will have a tenon cut all but the remaining radius from the blade. Easy to hand saw that much out. 

For the shoulders,just raise the saw up and rotate the timber 4 times, cutting the shoulder at what ever distance you've preset the stop. They will all be exactly the same from the end.

Miter saws and chop saw don't accept dado sets. You may be able to use a wobble dado, but it may not clear the blade guard....?


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## tom d (Oct 23, 2013)

How about some good chisels and Adz for timber framing? Sounds like what you are really doing. Amazing how fast these work in the right hands.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I know a lot of folks don't like the RAS but back in the 80's, that's all I had. I guess I was lucky because I still have all of my fingers.


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## mikeber (Jan 3, 2016)

I too am new to the forum and to woodworking in general and am facing similar dilemmas. 
People like us (non seasoned users) don't have enough experience to answer all questions, but on the other hand, we are asking good questions. Most of us come from different backgrounds, like metalworking, high tech or composite materials. One thing I discovered is that the woodworking industry evolved at a different pace. People in the industry are conservative. As a result, unlike in other files, few inventions were introduced to woodworking in the last 20 years. Pros in the field use mostly tools based on decades (centuries?) old technologies. Perhaps the only new introduction is CNC routing. Other than that, machines come with limited purposes, like saws: miter saw, table saw, band saw, radial arm saw...
Yes, each is capable of performing other tasks, but with significant compromise. 

Also don't forget, even with these tools at hand, there is a lenghty setup process often requiring the use jigs and templates. 
They are useful if you repeat the same cut 190 times. To cut 2 tenons, doing it by hand is probably quicker. Therefore the question is how large your project is and what is the scope. What do you anticipate for future projects? That is the key question that only you can answer. If you plan larger volume projects, I'm afraid you'll need all the above, perhaps even more. 
I on the other hand, decided to limit myself to few pieces and take my time. Lots of patience is needed with or without a top table saw. If in the future I'll expand the scope, I may purchase a bandsaw first. 
Good Luck.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Just a note. Table saws come in a lot of different sizes.
Here are mine.
Grizzly 1023RLW
DeWalt DWE7480


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*table saw(s)*

The more saws you have, the more you want 
Three 12" Craftsman saws bolted together with tables between and a router extension thrown on for space saving:


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> I know a lot of folks don't like the RAS but back in the 80's, that's all I had. I guess I was lucky because I still have all of my fingers.



My first major tool purchase after marriage was a Sears radial arm saw. 
This saw is now over 40 years old and still works well.


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## Derstig (Jan 2, 2016)

Thanks to everyone here, I am now set on buying a table saw instead of a miter saw. 

I have been doing a lot of reading since I posted here a few days ago and narrowed it down to Grizzly table saws. It seems like ridgid is no longer what it used to be, dewalt saws are too small, delta went bankrupt and whatever purchased it does not deliver the same customer service and other brands are too expensive. One thing that I dont like about Grizzly is it only has one year warranty whereas a lot of other saws like ridgid, crafstman have 3,5 years. Anyways....


In terms of the model selection, I do need some advice:

- G0771 : Does not have a good miter gauge and fence rail that is two pieces and a fence that is no so great? If I upgraded these pieces, they would cost around $300-400 defeating the purpose of this saw and its price point. That being said, cabinet mounts is a big plus because the next thing Grizzly sells that has that is almost twice the price.

- G0715P : Has alignment issues and with my inadequate experience, not something I can deal with at a level you guys can.

- G0690/G1023 : They are great but way too expensive for me. Not because I cannot afford them but because I feel like as a hobbyist, I'd look like a guy who drives a Ferrari to work for an occassional wood work.

You see? Now you guys did solve one problem for me and helped me deciding on table saw over miter, but there is another, possibly more challenging problem presented itself. So what do I do? Do I spend $800 on the basic model and use it as is? Or spend 50%-60% more and get something much better and also deal with a new 220V setup.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Don't believe everything you read. I've got the delta 36-725, their contractor saw, and it is a fantastically wonderful tool


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*they fixed that problem*



Derstig said:


> Thanks to everyone here, I am now set on buying a table saw instead of a miter saw.
> 
> 
> In terms of the model selection, I do need some advice:
> ...


I think you would be very happy with that saw. I have a similar Craftsman 22124, now discontined. It's a hybrid... looks like a cabinet saw, but only 1 3/4 HP and it has a large table and a great fence. I cant speak for the G0715P t, but there are several earlier threads on it here. I think you will find that the alignment issue was solved a few years back, but I'm not certain. A call to Grizzly tech service will resolve that for you. That saw is rated at 2 HP .... BTW. Read the reviews they seem pretty good. 

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series/G0715P

A closer look at the saw:
http://jayscustomcreations.com/2014/03/grizzly-g0715p-hybrid-table-saw/


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## Minnesota Marty (Feb 27, 2015)

*My opinion*

Derstig, 
I have had Grizzly table saws for 20+ years up until about 3 years ago. I am a contractor and they were my shop saws. My business has changed in the last 5 years and I no longer have that large of a shop where I can/ need that large of a saw. I will say I have not had any major issues with Grizzly saws at all. I just didn't use the saw everyday for 8 hours a day. We used the saw probably about 12-20 hrs per week. I had more trouble with a Makita Compound Slide Miter saw that I never moved than with a Grizzly saw. I think the G0715 is a good saw for someone that doesn't use the saw everyday. Any tool you buy takes a certain amount of maintenance and care. ANY TOOL! I have a customer that has a Steel City Hybrid saw. He is a very very good woodworker and he has upgraded his Hybrid saw with after market fence, miter gauge and sled. He says his saw can do everything that a cabinet saw can do because he doesn't move the saw. Once it is set up, it is set up. 

Having said the above I missed my large table saw so much that I purchased at an auction a Delta Unisaw that needs some work and is about 35 years old. I plan on refurbishing and making it my garage saw at home. A good table saw is like a good foundation, everything flows from there. 

So, if you think you are going to keep going with this woodworking thing, bite the bullet for the Grizzly 1023 you will not be disappointed. Or you can watch Craigslist and you can find a good Unisaw for about $1000. Unisaws that are 10 -12 years old are fantastic saws. 

Good Luck, 

Marty


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

Minnesota Marty said:


> Derstig,
> 
> ....Or you can watch Craigslist and you can find a good Unisaw for about $1000. Unisaws that are 10 -12 years old are fantastic saws.
> 
> Marty


This is one of the best pieces of advice for just about anyone for just about anything, much less someone just starting out. Gently used equipment can be found in many ways; estate sales, Craigslist, local paper, etc... and can net you a heckufalot more machine for a heckufalot fewer dollars. 

Be smart, patient and diligent. You're either going to love your decision for a long time or you're going to regret your decision for just as long. Taking a little extra time to see what can be had secondhand COULD put you in pro gear for amateur money. 

Just an old guys practiced opinion with 50 years of woodworking behind him. Probably worth a whopping $000,000,000.02 

Cheers


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## Derstig (Jan 2, 2016)

Yeah the craigslist is a good idea, unfortunately the problem is how in the world will I transport that thing. Yea I can rent a uhaul truck no problem, but how do you load 400-500 lbs of iron without the help of a forklift onto a truck. I just dont know if thats something I can do on my own.

I will call up Grizzly and inquire about the G0715. I think it shares the fence and the miter with the much more expensive models with the exception of mount location.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*reminds me of when ....*

I bought my saw on an Easter Sunday morning about 5 years ago. It was a floor model and was all assembled, side extensions and fence rail for a Biesemeyer. About 5 Sears employees, my 16 year old son and I stood at the loading door and had puzzled looks on how we were going to get in the back of my short box pickup with a cap....

I finally asked for some cardboard and 2 of us tipped the saw over on it's back, then turned it side ways so it rested partially on the tailgate, but upside down. The cardboard provided a slick surface to just slide the whole thing in on it's tables. Worked like a charm with the low center of gravity, tables weighing the most and no straps required.

I would always truck a tablesaw upside down if at all possible. You may have to strap the motor down if it's loose or remove it if it's easy to do.


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

If I could find a well kept unisaw for half price, I'd tie it to the bumper of my car with a rope and drag it home! 

OK, maybe I'm kidding (...maybe). There are many ways to accomplish the task. First, I doubt if you are alone. A few beers tend to make friends quickly. After the move! And one of those guys has a brother in law who knows a guy who is buds with a dude who has an old pickup truck. So it might take a few extra beers, but you get the idea.

Some moving companies will move things like tools short distances for anywhere from a C note on up (I have done this before)

I just suggest you not close the door to used only because it might be tough to get it home. Where there's a will...

Cheers,
Mark


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## Minnesota Marty (Feb 27, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> I bought my saw on an Easter Sunday morning about 5 years ago. It was a floor model and was all assembled, side extensions and fence rail for a Biesemeyer. About 5 Sears employees, my 16 year old son and I stood at the loading door and had puzzled looks on how we were going to get in the back of my short box pickup with a cap....
> 
> I finally asked for some cardboard and 2 of use tipped the saw over on it's back, then turned it side way so it rested partially on the tailgate, but upside down. The cardboard provided a slick surface to just slide the whole thing in on it's tables. Worked like a charm with the low center of gravity, tables weighing the most and no straps requires.
> 
> I would always truck a tablesaw upside down if at all possible. You may have to strap the motor down if it's loose or remove it if it's easy to do.


That is exactly how I moved the Unisaw from the auction in my Dodge Dakota Pickup. When we go home my son and one neighbor pulled it out and tipped it down then upright on some steel pipe and rolled it in the garage, where it sets until I get to it.


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## Minnesota Marty (Feb 27, 2015)

*Just thought I would look*

Ok so I just search table saws on Minneapolis Craigslist just now. 
Look what you can get for $750 

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/tls/5384299503.html

It is about 20 miles from my house. A nice deal I think. 

Marty


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*so, Marty whats you gonna do now?*

Nice lookin' saw, but I think it's right tilt...?


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> Nice lookin' saw, but I think it's right tilt...?


All the more reason to get it!


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Derstig said:


> Yeah the craigslist is a good idea, unfortunately the problem is how in the world will I transport that thing. Yea I can rent a uhaul truck no problem, but how do you load 400-500 lbs of iron without the help of a forklift onto a truck. I just dont know if thats something I can do on my own.
> 
> I will call up Grizzly and inquire about the G0715. I think it shares the fence and the miter with the much more expensive models with the exception of mount location.


Where theres a will theres a way. I got my saw, admittedly smaller than a cabinet saw, loaded into an suv, out and down my basement stairs solo. Sure, it took a lot of grunting, swearing, brute force and clever use of 2x4s, but its doable


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## Parabola (Feb 12, 2015)

Derstig said:


> Yeah the craigslist is a good idea, unfortunately the problem is how in the world will I transport that thing. Yea I can rent a uhaul truck no problem, but how do you load 400-500 lbs of iron without the help of a forklift onto a truck. I just dont know if thats something I can do on my own.
> 
> I will call up Grizzly and inquire about the G0715. I think it shares the fence and the miter with the much more expensive models with the exception of mount location.


I recently acquired a g1023zx (older g1023 5hp with no riving knife, right tilt) table saw off of craigslist for $500. It had a huge extension and very long trails. I took the rails and cast iron top off. Kept the motor on. The cabinet and motor together were easily lifted by myself and seller into back of SUV onto it's side. With the proper blocking off motor mounts, I felt very confident transporting it. Putting it back together is good to understand and get familiar with aligning your brand new saw as well


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

epicfail48 said:


> All the more reason to get it!


??????????

Why?

George


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

GeorgeC said:


> ??????????
> 
> Why?
> 
> George


Because I like right tilt saws but they're impossible to find


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

GeorgeC said:


> ??????????
> 
> Why?
> 
> George


Same reason that they make left hand circular saws.

There WILL be times when you wish your saw beveled in the other direction sooner or later... 



(cutting backwards sucks if it can be avoided)


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

OnealWoodworking said:


> GeorgeC said:
> 
> 
> > ??????????
> ...


 Doesn't the saw in question only tilt left? If you cut backwards do you install the blade backwards?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

hwebb99 said:


> Doesn't the saw in question only tilt left? If you cut backwards do you install the blade backwards?












This is a right tilt saw. See how the angle setting indicator moves to the left from center. This means the blade is moving toward the right.

As far a cutting backwards, this is done only with a circular saw and it will "climb cut, so you'd better be holding on to it.  Blade goes in normally.


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

epicfail48 said:


> Because I like right tilt saws but they're impossible to find


Are you left handed? Lefties might like the fence on the left, but it is usually somewhat awkward for righties. Fence on the left side is just not natural for us righties.

Yes the fence CAN be put on the right side. But anyone had better have a great understanding of what can happen if a board pinches between a right hand fence and a right tilted blade (especially if the fence is a hair out of parallel). 

I just about got gutted many years ago by a kickback on a right tilt machine. Happened so fast I'm still not sure what I did or didn't do, or if the fence was whacked out. Still have the scar and hospital memory to prove it. And I haven't used a right tilt blade machine since!


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Shop_Rat said:


> Are you left handed? Lefties might like the fence on the left, but it is usually somewhat awkward for righties. Fence on the left side is just not natural for us righties.
> 
> Yes the fence CAN be put on the right side. But anyone had better have a great understanding of what can happen if a board pinches between a right hand fence and a right tilted blade (especially if the fence is a hair out of parallel).
> 
> I just about got gutted many years ago by a kickback on a right tilt machine. Happened so fast I'm still not sure what I did or didn't do, or if the fence was whacked out. Still have the scar and hospital memory to prove it. And I haven't used a right tilt blade machine since!


Nope, there's just a few advantages of right tilt I'd like to have. For one, the arbor nut being on the left side means that the distance from blade to fence is unchanged if you were to switch from aregular blade to a dado blade. For two, I'd like to be able to cut board at an angle to a particular width just by setting the fence to the width I need on the long side. I know, having the workpiece trapped like that isn't safe, but I'd still like that option


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## Derstig (Jan 2, 2016)

So I have been to Lowes the other day and have seen Delta up close and I am not happy with what I have seen. 

- The table extensions on the outer sides of the table is made of very cheap sheet metal that a) is very hard to keep straight at the same level as the cast iron middle part of the table and b) keep moving around.

- Miter gauge is very cheaply made, I dont see how it can be used for anything precise.

- The fence and the rail construction are both flimsy. Fence is not smooth at all and the rail itself is very wobbly.

I understand this was the display model and yes if I assembled it I could probably do a better job, but there are inherent problems with the saw, the cheap sheet metal used, screws instead of thick bolts to connect panels, and the rails have too much give. The entire point of a table saw is precision. I dont see how this will do that, at least in the long run at a level like a G1023 or G0690 will. Am I missing anything?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not in the same league ...*

The Grizzlys are a heavy cast iron saw, well built for years of service. You only need buy one table saw in your life time and it's better to spend the money now and be happy than spend less money and be frustrated. Table saws last a lifetime. I used a 45 year old 10" Craftsman for the same number of years and I killed it and parted it out. Otherwise it would still be running.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Derstig said:


> So I have been to Lowes the other day and have seen Delta up close and I am not happy with what I have seen.
> 
> - The table extensions on the outer sides of the table is made of very cheap sheet metal that a) is very hard to keep straight at the same level as the cast iron middle part of the table and b) keep moving around.
> 
> ...


Missing anything? Yeah, experience with the saw beyond knocking it for using sheet metal. If the extensions at the store were out of flat and moving around, that's because someone at the store assembled it wrong. In real life, assembled by someone competent, those "flimsy sheet metal" wings are rock solid, and held on with some nice, beefy m6 bolts that keep everything straight and level. 

The fency is also rock solid. Again, if it was flimsy at the store, that because the guy assembling it had no idea what he was doing. The rail metal is either 3/16 or 1/4 thick (forget which and my saw isn't next to me to measure it), held together throughout through more m6 bolts securing it to the saw. The fence itself is extruded aluminium, like most fences, and once it's locked to the rail its not moving. 

You're comparing apples to oranges comparing a contractor saw to a dedicated cabinet saw, though for what it's worth I'd put the build quality of the delta as being equal to the grizzly. The fence system in particular is nearly identical, with the difference being the grizzly uses a 2x3 fence rail and the delta using a 2x2. All the problems you listed are explained by the stock boy not knowing what he was doing or not caring how to assemble everything correctly, as well as what appears to be an irrational hatred for sheet metal. Seriously, I can stand on one of those extension wings and it'll hold my weight fine. 

Not gonna argue though, the miter gauge is crap, but then again, show me one miter gauge included with a saw that isnt


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## Kansas Gary (Nov 13, 2014)

"Not gonna argue though, the miter gauge is crap, but then again, show me one miter gauge included with a saw that isn't ".

The miter gauge that came with my G0690 is actually really nice. It has 2 set screws to adjust the gauge to the miter slot perfectly.


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## Derstig (Jan 2, 2016)

epicfail48 said:


> Missing anything? Yeah, experience with the saw beyond knocking it for using sheet metal. If the extensions at the store were out of flat and moving around, that's because someone at the store assembled it wrong. In real life, assembled by someone competent, those "flimsy sheet metal" wings are rock solid, and held on with some nice, beefy m6 bolts that keep everything straight and level.
> 
> The fency is also rock solid. Again, if it was flimsy at the store, that because the guy assembling it had no idea what he was doing. The rail metal is either 3/16 or 1/4 thick (forget which and my saw isn't next to me to measure it), held together throughout through more m6 bolts securing it to the saw. The fence itself is extruded aluminium, like most fences, and once it's locked to the rail its not moving.
> 
> ...


Fair points, but isnt a miter gauage at least $100-150? That means delta is really $750 not $600. And if i upgrade the fence, another $100 at least. Change the blade, another $50 (to the same quality used on grizzly cabinet), so now you are at $1000 with tax (grizzly is tax free) and i still have to pay $50 delivery (wont fit in my car). I'd rather pay $300-400 more and get something where I am not cutting corners. $600 is not cheap at all.

Regarding bolts, grizzly's use much bigger bolts and nuts. I dont know the sizes, but its like comparing a chevy volt to corvette z06. There is no way a 550 lb and 200 lb saw will be same not to mention one is 1.5 hp while other is 3.0hp. Thats very substantial.

I guess the take away is, delta is not $600 when all said and done. Its really, at a minimum, $600 + $125 (miter gauge) + $50 (delivery) + $50 blade + $60 (tax) = $900.


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## Kansas Gary (Nov 13, 2014)

"I guess the take away is, delta is not $600 when all said and done. Its really, at a minimum, $600 + $125 (miter gauge) + $50 (delivery) + $50 blade + $60 (tax) = $900. "

But a grizzly G0690 isn't even in the same class as your delta your referring to in my opinion....
G0690--------1,525.00
shipping------ 150.00
Mobile base-- 95.00
New blade---- 125.00 The saw blade that comes with it is really just a run of the mill that every saw comes with in my opinion..... Granted I still use it but my go to blade for ripping is the Forrest Woodworker II and it is not cheap. Then when you add it all up your talking really close to 2,000.00 for a once in a lifetime investment in your saw.....


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Derstig said:


> Fair points, but isnt a miter gauage at least $100-150? That means delta is really $750 not $600. And if i upgrade the fence, another $100 at least. Change the blade, another $50 (to the same quality used on grizzly cabinet), so now you are at $1000 with tax (grizzly is tax free) and i still have to pay $50 delivery (wont fit in my car). I'd rather pay $300-400 more and get something where I am not cutting corners. $600 is not cheap at all.
> 
> Regarding bolts, grizzly's use much bigger bolts and nuts. I dont know the sizes, but its like comparing a chevy volt to corvette z06. There is no way a 550 lb and 200 lb saw will be same not to mention one is 1.5 hp while other is 3.0hp. Thats very substantial.
> 
> I guess the take away is, delta is not $600 when all said and done. Its really, at a minimum, $600 + $125 (miter gauge) + $50 (delivery) + $50 blade + $60 (tax) = $900.


I'm very curious as to why youd need to spend 125 on a miter gauge when a good gauge only runs 60 and the one that comes with the saw is as good as any gauge that comes with a saw, why youd need to replace a perfectly functional fence, why you wouldn't need to replace the blade that comes with the grizzly but would with the delta, or just how it is that a bigger bolt has anything to do with the functionality of the saw, being that if a bolt is sized to work then a bigger bolt won't do anything more. 

I'm not arguing you that the delta is the unquestionably better saw, as that's subjective. The delta is the best for me, but a professional furniture maker would likely need something a little more substantial. No, what im arguing against is the notion that the delta is a bad tool


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

"The delta is the best for me, but a professional furniture maker would likely need something a little more substantial."

You talking about the miter guage or saw?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have about 8 miter gauges ...*

They range from a 45 year old Craftsman, to some HD Grizzlys to a newer Craftsamn with a hold down, AND 2 Incras. This one was on sale when I bought it for around $130.00 or so. I rarely use it ......:blink:

http://www.amazon.com/Incra-MITER10...2352706&sr=8-4&keywords=table+saw+miter+gauge

I have this one and use it quite a bit, but the track is too short for wider boards. I have a 3" tall fence extension that's 20" or so bolted on and I cut through it when making cross cuts. I can see by the previous kerf exactly where the cut will be:









Around $70.00 ,or so:
http://www.amazon.com/Incra-MITERV2...2352706&sr=8-3&keywords=table+saw+miter+gauge

The Incras have a vernier angle setting with a very positive degree stop. You aren't guessing where on the line the angle is. You should really use a digital protractor regardless.

Here's the thread I started:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/miter-gauges-one-13121/

When you buy/own more that a few table saws, you eventually acquire more that a few miter gauges and then you also buy a few..... just sayin'


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

Kansas Gary said:


> "Not gonna argue though, the miter gauge is crap, but then again, show me one miter gauge included with a saw that isn't ".
> 
> The miter gauge that came with my G0690 is actually really nice. It has 2 set screws to adjust the gauge to the miter slot perfectly.


This picture doesn't do it justice. 








The miter gauge that came with my Powermatic PM2000 is ridiculous. You should have seen me unbox it. I must have looked like the dad from Christmas Story pulling the leg lamp out of the box,


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

And why are you guys comparing a $1700 3HP cabinet saw to a $700 1 1/2HP contractor saw? Am I missing something?


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

You won't understand "cheap" until you drop $100 on a 10" Ryobi TS. Dreadful but entirely adequate for the rough cutting that I do. I have to hold the fence with one hand and start it with the other as the saw bucks so much that it unseats the fence clamp!


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