# Face Frame Screws



## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey all,

Finally going to install the upper cabinets at the cabin next weekend. What is the best screw for joining cabinet face frames? The wood is 3/4 pine. The stiles are 2 inches wide each. I am guessing number 8 screws but I am wondering about length and whether or not one particular type of screw migt be better than another. Can I use self countersinking screws or is it best to pre-drill and make my own contersink?

Thanks


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## Master Tinker (Dec 29, 2010)

Are you assembling the face frames or attatching the assembled face frames to the boxes?


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Sorry I should have been more clear. The face frames are already attached to the boxes. I am actually going to be installing the finished cabinets next weekend. So I am wondering what screws are best to use to attach one box to another through the stiles of the face frames


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

See if this thread is any help.












 









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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> See if this thread is any help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I get it. I could probabaly write a novel here with my questions but I will try not to.

So do you do the first part and then take them all back apart first before installing them? I wasn't exactly getting the transition between your 2nd and 3rd paragraph. It seems as thought the cabinets are separated (initial shorter screw removed), then put on the wall and the longer screw is installed. 

My slight challenge is that it will be me and my wife. Is there any install process whereby I can install cab A on the wall snug but not tight, and then work my way down the run joining cabinets as i go? I have an over the stove cabinet in the middle of two others on each end and if I attach them all on the ground and try to raise them together, I am concerned we may not be able to manage the weight. I am using a ledger board but not sure if we can lift all 3 cabinets up to rest it on the ledger board. 

I am guessing very little of what i just wrote made any sense. 

Do you use any speacial type of screw to join the face frames? just a plain old wood screw?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> So do you do the first part and then take them all back apart first before installing them? I wasn't exactly getting the transition between your 2nd and 3rd paragraph. It seems as thought the cabinets are separated (initial shorter screw removed), then put on the wall and the longer screw is installed.
> 
> My slight challenge is that it will be me and my wife. Is there any install process whereby I can install cab A on the wall snug but not tight, and then work my way down the run joining cabinets as i go? I have an over the stove cabinet in the middle of two others on each end and if I attach them all on the ground and try to raise them together, I am concerned we may not be able to manage the weight. I am using a ledger board but not sure if we can lift all 3 cabinets up to rest it on the ledger board.
> 
> ...


That method does a few things. First when they are screwed together with the shorter screws, the faces of the FF are matched sanded to eachother. Second there will be alignment holes in the edges of the FF once you start to install. Yes, you do separate them to install.

I usually install by myself, and this makes it easy. So, when you re-read the method I outlined think of one cabinet at a time on the wall, then adding to it. For screws, I use coarse thread screws (flat head phillips or square drive) 7's or 8's. I like them threaded all the way to the head. I don't use the cheapo drywall screws, but what keeps screws from snapping off is to drive them slow, and having a pilot hole. I use a cordless on slow speed. It has more torque than a corded drill. When close to tight I just bump the trigger.












 









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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

YES #1 clamp faces together, #2 PREDRILL not as bad in pine but oak a must, #3 use 2 3/4" from face to face ( I prefer the self cutters like "gregg's"?? kreggs... whatever that faceframe jig is:laughing:.
#4 ***WARNING ***legal wiring in wall is to be min. 1 1/4"+ from edge of stud face...which means the length of the wall screw DOES NOT need to be longer than ....thickness of cabinet back(ing) plus wall covering (paneling, drywall etc) plus 1 1/4" or chance of hitting wiring or causing electrical short or fire. I usually use a upholstery washer also with the wall screws.

I use a laser level to get my starter marks and a new "dustless" chalk thats wipeable to remove. As cabinetman mention I install most of the time "one at a time" but use min. wall screws until all faces aligned (wavy walls sometimes).:blink:

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> That method does a few things. First when they are screwed together with the shorter screws, the faces of the FF are matched sanded to eachother. Second there will be alignment holes in the edges of the FF once you start to install. Yes, you do separate them to install.
> 
> I usually install by myself, and this makes it easy. So, when you re-read the method I outlined think of one cabinet at a time on the wall, then adding to it. For screws, I use coarse thread screws (flat head phillips or square drive) 7's or 8's. I like them threaded all the way to the head. I don't use the cheapo drywall screws, but what keeps screws from snapping off is to drive them slow, and having a pilot hole. I use a cordless on slow speed. It has more torque than a corded drill. When close to tight I just bump the trigger.
> 
> ...


Okay. I think I got it. I have already finished the face frames however. Sanding and scraping them flush would of course mean that I would need to refinish them once installed. 

How long of a screw would be appropriate for 2 inch stiles? Would a 3 inch screw be about right? That would mean I would have roughly one inch of penetration into the adjoining stile

Thanks


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

It took me a couple of rereading to understand cabinetman. He was talking in the building/unfinished stage to match faces and sand/scrape. I assume your are in the finished stage of cabinetry with finish. I've not used cabinetmans way of aligning and finishing during building but sounds best to build by:thumbsup:. 

Over the years, my jobs required installing an existing product/prefinished cabinetry and we would align/flush a finished cabinet section to our specs, clamp, predrill and attatch each section. I found out the hard way CLAMP THE FACES or the screw will walk face out of flush!!!!!!

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

Here's the clamps I always use. Nice because once you have them set for the first cabinets, you are good to go with only minor adjustments for the rest of the job. Not the case with c clamps and those Irwin ratcheting bar clamps don't have near the amount of torque

The good part of installing bases before uppers is you just have to cut a couple sticks that you can use to rest the upper on until you get it screwed to the wall. Either that or use a 



 Those are nice because as has been mentioned, your wall is probably out at least in a few spots so the third hand allows you to make minor adjustments to get the face frames just right. Either way, you just have to reference the bases to know if you're level so not a lot of layout necessary. 

For screwing 2" face frames, I would use at least 3" screws, a little longer won't hurt. I like star drives and I would always use the exterior ones for face frames since they are hardened. When predrilling, It's a good idea to use a tapered bit, especially in pine. That way the last inch or so of the screw grabs better. This link is a different brand than I use but looks to be a good product. I use cully which are more expensive, and I hope higher quality, but I couldn't find a link.

I like washer head screws for screwing to the wall, just make sure they won't interfere with your shelves since you can't drive them flush. That extra surface area gives me piece of mind although it probably isn't necessary. I did at least 40 installs before I started using washer heads real regularly.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank you guys. This has been extremely helpful. I do the uppers next weekend. I'll try to take some pics of the results.


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## gwiener (Feb 7, 2011)

Quickscrews stocks the exact item for this application: Bulk Part# 11544...See it at: Quickscrews.com


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