# Chucks and rust



## Miller Woodworks (Dec 11, 2013)

I do a lot of traveling for work and have had times where I spend months at a time away from home. Unfortunately, that's less than ideal for tools and I've noticed that my chucks and tools tend to rust a bit despite spraying them down with a lubricating oil before leaving.

Is there a good way to keep things from rusting during my longer assignments?


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Probably only if you keep them in an air conditioned place or move to a desert.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

White lithium grease, silicone grease and a heavy coat of wax come to mind. Something that builds up a thick film on the surface. Might try some of that marine motor fogging spray, it could work. Maybe


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Silicone grease and woodworking don't go together. You're not going to want to handle a tool coated with white lithium grease. 

Have you considered Boeshield T-9 or Glidecote? They're both surface sealants that use paraffin wax. I use the Glidecote on my table saw, but I can't say it lasts all that long. The Boeshield is reputedly less slick, but on tools that don't need low-friction surfaces, that might not be a problem. The higher friction may mean there's more wax on the surface. Both of these products suggest use with hand tools.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

How are you storing the chucks when not in use ?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I guarantee that if you totally submerge the chuck in 10w-30 motor oil, it will not rust while submerged...ever.








 








.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I second the Boeshield T9 I use WD-40 most of the time on the lathe to keep things from rusting when using woods with a lot of Tannin. However I don't want that stuff on my flat wood tools like the table saw, jointer, etc. I use the Boeshield.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

I keep a dehumidifier in my garage. Sometimes rust is caused when you get cold weather and then some warm muggy air comes in and makes water condense on all the cold tools. That's an extreme case but the dehumidifier sure helps me here on the Gulf Coast.


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

You may also want to try a rust converter, I use it after they have a light rust. It comes in spray or liquid and chemicaly converts iron oxide to iron phosphate (not rust).
If you don't clean it off it should also prevent rust as it leaves a very thin coating but I haven't tried that. Avilable at any auto store (AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc) and some of the boxes like Home Depot.


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## Jetmugg (Apr 28, 2014)

You might want to try some VpCI (Vapor Phase Corrosion Inhibiting) bags. These are blue plastic bags that are commonly used in industry and some military applications to protect metals from rusting over long periods of time.

A company called Cortec makes these bags, which come in a variety of sizes. They actually "emit" a protective vapor. As long as the parts stay in the bags, they can remain rust free for years.

Steve.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Jetmugg said:


> You might want to try some VpCI (Vapor Phase Corrosion Inhibiting) bags. These are blue plastic bags that are commonly used in industry and some military applications to protect metals from rusting over long periods of time.


Good to know. I love learning about new things. :thumbsup:

I then did an internet search and found a company The Rust Store specialising in rust prevention and removal. Interesting.

http://www.theruststore.com/Cortec-VpCI-126-Gussetted-Bags-P73C28.aspx


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## jgilfor (Jan 25, 2013)

Rust, on the surface of an item, while not pretty, is actually a protective oxide layer. Once formed, rust will not rust.

Although you definitely do not want the moving parts of your chuck to rust, and also do not want the grabbing (parts that mate and/or contact the wood) parts to rust, allowing some rust to form on the outside will not affect the chucks use at all, and may will prevent further rust from forming.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time or effort keeping the entire chuck pristine. The parts that "count" should however be coated with packing grease for long term storage. Some of the other methods mentioned will work well too.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

jgilfor said:


> Rust, on the surface of an item, while not pretty, is actually a protective oxide layer. Once formed, rust will not rust.


I think ferrous metal oxides (rust) layer does not protect. If I recall the density of the oxides is less than the metal so the expansion causes the oxide to flake away over time allowing more metal to rust.

I have done a lot of bench plane restorations and seen my share of pitting and rust blisters.

Some non-ferrous oxides are protective, such as aluminium.


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## Jetmugg (Apr 28, 2014)

Those blue bags really work. At my "day job", we use them to ship bandsaw blades (mostly for food cutting) all over the globe. The blades are made from polished high-carbon steel. Before using these protective bags, we would get occasional claims of rusty blades. Since starting to use the VpCL bags, rusty blades are not a concern.

Dave Paine is correct, red rust (Fe2O3) is not a passive, protective layer like you might encounter with aluminum or stainless steels. Black rust (actually Magnetite - Fe3O4) is stable, but not red rust. 

Red rust will continue to grow in damp or salty conditions, and a pitted surface will eventually be the result.

Steve


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

There is one particular type of structural steel where the initial layer of rust acts somewhat as a barrier to future rusting and slows it down. I don't see it used any longer. Rust on steel in general never stops which should be obvious. I live in a moderately humid area and have never seen rust on things stored in my garage or shop. Anything left outdoors will rust very quickly.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

I have most of my tools , carpentry , turning , and general , in old wooden chests of drawers and cupboards . 
None of them rusted in the three years that they lay idle after the quakes . The bare surfaces of the lathe did , but no tools . The sharp ones were still good to go when I got set up again earlier this year .
I figure it to be the nature of the wood that protects them .


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

I highly recommend an aerosol product called Tool Guard. Goes on wet, dries in seconds leaving a slight haze. Wipe it off and you're good to go. Leaves the surfaces slick without attracting dirt. I put that sh#@ on everything.
Mike Hawkins


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

In all fairness, when i recommended silicone or lithium i was thinking the tools would be cleaned before use


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

'struth , who has time to do that ?

A scroll chuck would have to be stripped down and all parts individually cleaned , same with a lathe. That would take forever , and still not get rid of all of the infection .


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## Miller Woodworks (Dec 11, 2013)

I'm not sure who's tip to try first. Maybe I'll try them all since I have a few chucks and should be back home for a couple of days this weekend.


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## Jetmugg (Apr 28, 2014)

Rust is cancer for plain carbon and many alloyed steels. Your geographic location and the climate where your tools are stored will have a lot to do with how quickly the cancer spreads.

The good news is that we are living in an era where there are a lot of ways to protect against rust, and even convert rust to a passive material if needed. 

I am a Metallurgical Engineer by profession, which is not any attempt to impress anyone, but to be clear that I work with and try to understand the behavior of metals on a daily basis.

There are a lot of good rust-proofing techniques available, some simple, and some sophisticated. Something as common as plain old WD-40 is hard to beat from a cost-to-performance basis.

Steve.


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## michigancritter (Mar 7, 2012)

I keep my chucks and other tools in cardboard boxes in a drawer. I like to wrap them in VCI paper that we use at work as we manufacture steel components for cnc machines. It's always worked for the company to prevent rust, good enough for my tools at home. And I don't have to wipe off anything!


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Manuka Jock said:


> 'struth , who has time to do that ?
> 
> A scroll chuck would have to be stripped down and all parts individually cleaned , same with a lathe. That would take forever , and still not get rid of all of the infection .


Well, only one part of a scroll saw touches the wood, same with a lathe. Clean those parts and youre golden, though like i said, my proposed options are more in the mindset of extended storage, periods of months with out use or so. Personally, id gladly take and hour every couple of months to strip and clean my tools if it meant to parts made of solid rust. That being said, if this is a long weekend storage scenario my ideas were idiotic


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I use this*

It's the greatest! 
http://michigancenteroutdoors.com/gibbs.html


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

epicfail48 said:


> Well, only one part of a scroll saw touches the wood, same with a lathe. Clean those parts and youre golden,


 The hands that touch the chuck , any part of the chuck , touch the wood , and that silicone transfers like a virus .


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Manuka Jock said:


> The hands that touch the chuck , any part of the chuck , touch the wood , and that silicone transfers like a virus .


Fair point, I forget that most people aren't as compulsive as me


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## MGP Roofing (Jul 10, 2010)

I swear by CRC Lanocote spray, sold for marine use, but is ideal on any bare steel surface to protect from rust while in storage, or while in use in less than ideal conditions.. first heard about it at a medieval reenactment event...when someone in full plate armour got caught in a shower of rain, having previously treated their armour with it--dried off the bulk of the water and that was it, no rust issues.


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## ronjboucher (Jun 28, 2010)

*rust removing*



Miller Woodworks said:


> I do a lot of traveling for work and have had times where I spend months at a time away from home. Unfortunately, that's less than ideal for tools and I've noticed that my chucks and tools tend to rust a bit despite spraying them down with a lubricating oil before leaving.
> 
> Is there a good way to keep things from rusting during my longer assignments?


I just watched a video from woodcraft, the product he was showing was called (Bora restore/rust remover) he claims his product is environmently friendly and only reacts to steel and once applied works for years. Might be just what your looking for.


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## Turn it up (Jun 13, 2014)

I put my chucks in a ziplock bag with a large Desiccant silica gel pack. No moisture no rust.


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## Bart Leetch (Jan 28, 2012)

Turn it up said:


> I put my chucks in a ziplock bag with a large Desiccant silica gel pack. No moisture no rust.


I was going to recommend a cabinet with a thermostat & light socket & bulb to keep a small amount of heat to keep moisture at bay. You could also keep finishes & glues etc in there.


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## Boxedin (Apr 8, 2014)

The manufacturers' recommendations for machined cast iron is to coat the surfaces with wax. I use Carnuba wax, as in car paste wax, and find that it does an excellent job.

As for chucks...Axminster makes a stainless steel line. Lee Valley carries them.


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