# SawStop table saws 5/10/16



## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

We've got into a little discussion on the SawStop table saws through other topics. I think this deserves more discussion and this separate post. I'd like to hear more thoughts regarding the SawStop. I've already learned that several of you think this is the greatest thing since a/c current. 
Please let us know the pros and cons as you see it. 

I have said I'm a skeptic. For every example of a near miss (slight cut) on a SawStop, I could probably find 100's of near misses on standard table saws. 
I'm certainly not opposed to safety. Safe practices must be followed in all aspects of woodwork. 
Looking forward to your responses.


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## RJweb (Feb 25, 2011)

I just purchased a 3 hp, in the process of putting together and setting up, excellent instructions. Will offer more after I get it up and running. The reason I bought it, getting older needed a little extra safety, and it got great reviews.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

RJ
I think there is more attention and more advertising/ marketing on the SawStop than on all other table saws combined. 
I have no doubt that the SawStop is a high quality saw. 
I'm looking for many more responses. Pros and cons.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

You really need more discussion about that saw, seem like just about everything that could be said about it, good or bad has been posted a hundred times before.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

It's important to be specific about model numbers, as opposed to grouping all SS saws into the same pile. The last I knew they offered 4 models...a jobsite saw, a contractor saw, a professional cabinet saw (PCS), and an industrial cabinet saw (ICS). 

The PCS and ICS are outstanding saws even without their safety techology. The stock fence on the PCS is their "Premium fence", but I'm not a big fan of it....it's lighter duty construction throughout than a steel welded t-square like a Biesemeyer. Fortunately they offer the T-Glide fence as an option, which is a very good fence, and is the choice I'd make for a saw in this price range. If you have 220v, I'd definitely opt for the 3hp motor over the 1.75hp. IMO the PCS is not quite at the same level as a PM2000, but with the 3hp motor and T-Glide fence, it's pretty competitive. A fully loaded PCS gives you a lot of saw with the safety brake feature for not much more than a PM2000. The ICS is more substantial than either, and is obviously more expensive than either....definitely geared for an industrial setting. IMHO institutions and professional shops leave themselves wide open for lawsuits if they don't implement one of these, because accidents seem inevitable in these environments.

The SS contractor saw is well built for a contractor saw, but the steel wings and cheapy fence don't impress me at the $1600 price point. Adding the T-Glide is a big step in the direction, as are the cast iron wings, but you're still paying a hefty premium to get the safety feature. I also can't help but think this model should have never incorporated the outboard motor....all the other outboard motor contractor saws were being phased out when this was introduced.

The jobsite saw is the lowest cost SS saw. There's undoubtedly a large natural market for contractors and assistant's where the jobsite saw will save a lot of injuries and law suits, but it's a pretty expensive and it's still has the drawbacks of a jobsite saw.

IMO the bottom two models don't offer the most saw for their respective price ranges. The Grizzly G1023RL at ~ $1500 is pretty stout competition from a perspective of just the saw, without considering the safety brake. However, it's hard to overlook the value of the safety brake in the event of an accident, which I'm sure is a big selling point.


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## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

+1 on notskot's great summary. While I have no experience with PM's to allow comparison, the PCS with the T-Glide fence is the "sweet spot" of price/value in SawStop's product line. I assembled and have used the 1.75 hp PCS. Fit and finish are perfect, and alignments were dead-on out of the box. Assembly instructions and parts layout are a model that others should follow. For my son's needs, the 3 hp would be overkill, and I find the 1.75 has plenty of power, though your needs may vary.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

notskot said:


> IMO the bottom two models don't offer the most saw for their respective price ranges. The Grizzly G1023RL at ~ $1500 is pretty stout competition from a perspective of just the saw, without considering the safety brake. However, it's hard to overlook the value of the safety brake in the event of an accident, which I'm sure is a big selling point.


There are several very good quality table saws on the market. I've read several posters comments that they would buy the SawStop even if it didn't offer the safety brake. They think it's the best saw on the market, brake or no brake. But I agree with you, the safety feature is the primary reason to purchase the SawStop. Without the brake, the saw would be overpriced to the competition.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> There are several very good quality table saws on the market. I've read several posters comments that they would buy the SawStop even if it didn't offer the safety brake. They think it's the best saw on the market, brake or no brake. But I agree with you, the safety feature is the primary reason to purchase the SawStop. Without the brake, the saw would be overpriced to the competition.


The value varies by model IMO, and I'll reiterate the importance of differentiating by model. I think the jobsite saw and contractor saw would be overpriced on just the merits of the saw without the brake. 

A loaded PCS 3hp in the $3300 range without the safety brake is fairly competitive with a new Unisaw, PM2000, Laguna Platinum, Jet Xacta, etc....the safety brake is certainly a nice tie breaker against those saws. 

Not sure what else the ICS would compare to, as it's heavier duty than the other cabinet saws mentioned, and IMO would justify some premium over them without the brake. I'd guess it'd put you into the range of some nice commercial grade sliders.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I guess I just don't understand what there is to be skeptical about on the sawstop. I don't believe there's ever been a known case of the technology failing, and if it ever had, don't you think the detractors would have taken out a full page ad in a woodworking magazine?? If you agree that safety is important, is there any doubt that this saw technology has a proven feature that NO one else has?


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## craigwbryant (Jan 22, 2012)

Reasons to buy a saw stop
(1) Desire for additional safety
(2) By all accounts its a great saw regardless of the safety feature

Reason not to buy a saw stop
(1) Cost

For me, I'll be buying a SS when my desire for additional safety overcomes my inability to pay for the SS. This may mean that I'm purchasing a used SS at some point in the future. I honestly think its only a matter of time until all the manufacturers are including some type of brake. Bosch already has their REAXX (sp?) out there, the other manufacturers can't be far behind. Obviously the patent attorneys of the world will slow this down somewhat, but its only a matter of time before the brakes are standard issue on every saw. Its similar to various vehicle safety technologies. Things like front collision warning, lane keeping, and blind spot monitoring used to be restricted to the premium car market, they're now making their way into mainstream vehicles.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Craig
I have to agree with you that when something good is invented, it's only a matter of time before it goes mainstream. 
My first Delta miter saw had a wooden table. You actually cut through the table on each cut, so after several months use, you had to replace the wood table. 
My 2nd miter saw (Makita) had a steel table that moved with the blade and a blade brake. Big improvements. 
Using your analogy of new car technology, as we add more technical, we add more things that can go wrong and costly repairs. (Back up cameras for instance). 
We have to weigh the benefits and each decide what we are willing to pay for.


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## craigwbryant (Jan 22, 2012)

I understand the "just more stuff to break" mentality, and in my personal opinion it's a bit of a false argument. My father gave me the devil's own to no end about the "extravagant" choices I made in purchasing a pickup truck that had...GASP...power windows, power locks, and cruise control, telling me that I'd done nothing but "buy problems when they break". 10 years and 100,000 miles later truck is still running like a top with never an issue from the windows, locks, or cruise control. Many technologies were once "just more stuff to break" and now are so commonplace you nearly can't buy a vehicle without them in it (granted, the car manufacturers have had some help in that from government regulation, but I don't want to get into the politics of that) and by and large these technologies do not present maintenance issues at any higher rate than other components of the vehicle. The same concept will apply here. First, I personally know of zero instances of the Sawstop brake malfunctioning, this is a testament to their R&D in designing a quality reliable product, and as stated here with the polarizing nature of Sawstop and some of their legal actions I guarantee you that had there ever been an instance of that brake malfunctioning and injuring someone or causing someone to have to come out of pocket for equipment repairs it would have made front page news in the woodworking world. I don't want to turn this into a debate of economics, but at some point the opportunity cost of not having the brake technology (read: missing body parts and medical bills) will outweigh the financial risks of having it (potential increased maintenance and repair costs are less than the cost of missing body parts and medical bills). At this point nearly everyone I have talked to regarding the Sawstop has said their only roadblock to buying one is the cost. As other manufacturers come to market with competing technologies at lower prices points the momentum will be unstoppable and I would say that inside of a decade you will not be able to new table saws on that market that do not have some form of brake technology. 

All that said, if you personally have done your analysis of the risks and costs associated with buying one or not buying one and you've decided that its not for you or not worth it to you, that's fine. Other folks will do their own analysis and determine that it is for them, and that's just fine too.


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## Kansas Gary (Nov 13, 2014)

Here is how I see it....
Just talking about cabinet saws.
Saw Stop PCS 3-HP 52in fence system.................................3,249.00
Powermatic PM2000 50in fence system................................3,059.00
Delta Unisaw 3 HP 52in fence system.................................2,799.00


Now all 3 of these companies in my opinion are the TOP 3 in making cabinet style cabinet saws hands down. Only one of these companies offer a safety feature that will protect you in the event of a major injury...... So is the 450.00 more worth it to you???? Only you will know the answer...................Gary


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## Oakwerks (Mar 24, 2013)

Having gone to the emergency room for a glass cut on my right palm, I can't imagine what a lost finger would cost...
My bill was $1100 for 7 stitches, and I only had a couple of weeks of discomfort....A lost finger(s) will affect you forever....
My wife insisted on going the extra $300 for a 1 3/4 hp PCS over a Powermatic 1000 ....
I went with a 36 inch (a better fence), and the mobile base....
I've had it for a year, and am still impressed with the fit and finish quality, and how beautifully it runs..... 
I also bought a spare cartridge, just in case... But, so far, has only been used for show and tell ....


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## RonW (Sep 16, 2013)

Kansas Gary said:


> Here is how I see it....
> Just talking about cabinet saws.
> Saw Stop PCS 3-HP 52in fence system.................................3,249.00
> Powermatic PM2000 50in fence system................................3,059.00
> ...


I went trough this a month ago when purchasing a new saw. The PM 2000 and the Unisaw are both steps above the PCS. The ICS would be more in line with them. So price made a big deciding factor when getting my new Unisaw.


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## eastsidebuzz (May 8, 2016)

RonW said:


> I went trough this a month ago when purchasing a new saw. The PM 2000 and the Unisaw are both steps above the PCS. The ICS would be more in line with them. So price made a big deciding factor when getting my new Unisaw.


They all are close. I spent 1500 in deductibles when I filleted my finger on my current saw. It was just a moment that I took my eyes off the prize. All healed OK and a scar and little deformation not really noticeable. They kept wanting to do surgery on me and that would have been 2k more. So SS would have been a savings.

I just got done assembling my 51 inch 3hp SS. It is a dream.


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## Fredric Altman (Jun 3, 2016)

Toolman50 said:


> RJ
> I think there is more attention and more advertising/ marketing on the SawStop than on all other table saws combined.
> I have no doubt that the SawStop is a high quality saw.
> I'm looking for many more responses. Pros and cons.


Don't really have any cons. Tech support is the best I've ever talked to.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> I guess I just don't understand what there is to be skeptical about on the sawstop. I don't believe there's ever been a known case of the technology failing, and if it ever had, don't you think the detractors would have taken out a full page ad in a woodworking magazine?? If you agree that safety is important, is there any doubt that this saw technology has a proven feature that NO one else has?


Define failure. I know several guys running saw stops who, fortunately, are not the typical rabid owners. They have given candid and honest appraisals of the saw. All but one wouldn't buy again. There have been numerous reports of misfires, I witnessed one myself. As soon as the saw was turned on the cartridge failed, destroying a very expensive blade in the process. Another failure occurred overnight. They went to start the saw and it wouldn't start. They noticed the blade was down and wouldn't raise. Sometime during the night the cartridge had failed, destroying an expensive blade.

The technology comes at a price, and one area to consider is the cost of replacement cartridges and blades. May not be any big deal for a hobbyist to be down for several days waiting on replacement parts, but it will certainly affect production on a professional level.

If I were to buy another cabinet saw today, saw stop would be third on the list.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

wericha said:


> If I were to buy another cabinet saw today, saw stop would be third on the list.


What would the first two be?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't think any of us are against the concept of the saw stop but I really doubt if it costs that much more to manufacture. I think they are just lining their pockets at the expense of peoples fingers. I think a lot of people unless they are accident prone would pass on the saw because of the price. If I had to purchase another table saw I don't have a clue what I would get. Several years ago I bought a Unisaw and have never been satisfied with it. Powermatic might have been my next choice but I've heard feedback from several people that the new ones are junk. If I had time to shop more than likely I would look for a vintage cast iron saw perhaps Mattison Machine Works.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Oakwerks said:


> Having gone to the emergency room for a glass cut on my right palm, I can't imagine what a lost finger would cost...
> My bill was $1100 for 7 stitches, and I only had a couple of weeks of discomfort....A lost finger(s) will affect you forever....
> My wife insisted on going the extra $300 for a 1 3/4 hp PCS over a Powermatic 1000 ....
> I went with a 36 inch (a better fence), and the mobile base....
> ...


Tough to argue the cost of emergency surgery on a hand vs the cost of saw technology. I nicked a finger on my old ryobi saw and could have easily lost it. It's made me very cautious, but accidents are still going to happen. Although the VA picked up the tab the bill was still way more than I could afford and more than the price of the sawstop technology and that was just for the price of the bandage on my finger. 
The automotive argument still comes up and I hear people tell me how safe they felt in those old iron coffins till I point out that the cars today are designed to collapse around you and not to throw you through the windshield, but some people are never convinced mainly because they have been lucky. I doubt any of you can forget that car interiors once were full of sharp metal parts that more often than not chopped people up in minor fender benders. The automotive industry finally figured it out. It's cheaper and more profitable to replace cars than to replace human body parts and so it is with saws. I suspect that the only reason it's taken so long for saw technology to catch up is no saw manufacturer has ever had to see their products kill entire families at once the way the automotive industry has.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

d_slat said:


> What would the first two be?


Powermatic for a cabinet saw, Felder for a sliding table saw.

Despite the uninformed comments, the new Powermatics are solid machines. We run a PM2000 hard on a daily basis and it has been flawless.


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

$1100 for seven stitches? I should have gone to medical school! Mine only cost $310 for three stitches. Cut my thumb while cutting lettuce for a salad. Wife makes all our salads now.
Vigilance is the key to safety with anything whether it is a power tool or knife or whatever can cause injury. Last Friday we got caught for 90 minutes in traffic on the interstate because someone goofed. Took 5-1/2 hours to make a three hour trip.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Ron Paulk's video of what happened when his SS touched aluminum..





I gotta say that if I can ever afford it I'm going to invest in the technology. I happen to enjoy having my fingers intact. Yeah, I know..selfish of me, but my fingers are the only ones I've ever had..


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Good video, now I'm 100% sure I'll never buy a saw stop. We process a considerable amount of reclaimed wood. No matter how much time we spend with metal detectors we are always hitting nails.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

It is a great safety feature, and the inventor was well aware that FUD is one of the best tools to use in marketing, once a head is filled with it you have a convert. Interestingly there was no mention in the video of what the incident cost him, only how quickly he could get the new unit installed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the saw sells at a premium ...*



FrankC said:


> It is a great safety feature, and the inventor was well aware that FUD is one of the best tools to use in marketing, once a head is filled with it you have a convert. Interestingly there was no mention in the video of what the incident cost him, only how quickly he could get the new unit installed.


You will pay at least $500.00 to $1000.00 more for the saw itself over comparable quality saws. I have examined the saws in person and they are of high quality and good design. But, then there is the cost of a spare cartridge and extra blade.... around $200.00.: https://www.amazon.com/SawStop-TSBC-10R2-Cartridge-10-Inch-Blades/dp/B001G9MGZQ

The problem I have with the whole deal is Saw Stop should have a program where you turn in your spent cartridge and blade and they will refurbish it for a nominal fee... let's say $50 to $75. This would make it more attractive to purchase and less like a "rip off" to get the proprietary cartridge.

Their web site claims, that in the event of a "flesh sensing accident" they will replace the cartridge at no cost because there is data is stored inside the cartridge. There is no blade replacement offered:

*If You Have an **Accident*
We at SawStop hope you never have an accident with your saw, and strongly encourage you to always follow safe practices and to use all the safety equipment provided with this saw. However, if you accidentally contact the spinning blade, the safety system will detect that contact and stop the blade within milliseconds to minimize any injury. If this happens, please contact us with information regarding the accident because it is very important to our on-going research and development. The more we know about what happens during an accident, the better we are able to ensure that the safety system will react as quickly as possible in all accident situations. In addition, the brake cartridges store the electronic data measured during an accident. If you return the activated cartridge to SawStop, we can retrieve that data to learn how the electronics and software performed. Once we verify the activation was due to contact with skin, we will be happy to send you a free replacement cartridge in exchange. Thanks for your help.

They should replace them both and probably have a stockpile of used ones they could resell at a reduced rate after reconditioning.... I donno?


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

I read many of these threads only to find out if what is important to me is in line with what is important to other folks. Most times the consensus is accurate with my opinion. This time, however… 

I've been working with wood for most of my life. My grandfather first opened the shop door for me when I could barely see over the workbench. He instilled in me all of his years of wisdom, or at least all that would fit into my young brain. He patiently taught me each tool, its uses, its limitations, and its dangers. He taught me how to meticulously tune each tool, how and where to lubricate each bearing, and how to repair a machine when it broke down. He did this year after year, and with each passing year he would let me take on more and more responsibility in the shop. By the time I was 13, I built my first cabinet all by myself... under the watchful eye of my grandfather. He may have let me mis-measure a cut or two for the learning curve, but he always insured that I acted in a thoughtful and safe manner when standing over a running machine. There was no talk, no radio, and no other people. I was taught to concentrate on the business at hand. ONLY on the business at hand.

Fast forward. When my grandfather passed, he left me his shop. The 1950- 1953 power tools that I had grown up with were now mine. I moved them to my home, refurbished and restored each one, and set up my own shop. I still use all of those tools today. There are no riving knives or safety guards on any of these old cast iron behemoths. They were made to simply cut, drill, shape, turn, plane and sand wood. I have added a nicer fence to the table saw for convenience, and I’ve made a shroud for the shaper for dust collection, but otherwise everything is just as it was when I first laid eyes on it in 1964.

Fast forward again. I have, over many years and many projects, ripped and crosscut countless thousands of feet of boards. I’ve drill tens of thousands of holes. I’ve milled more trim than I care to count, and turned hundreds of three foot Madonna figurines. And I’m missing one finger. 

From a motorcycle accident. 

I will not own a saw stop, and I absolutely do not begrudge anyone who wants one or does own one. It is imperative to be comfortable when operating your power tools; to be afraid of a tool is to invite disaster. However, if my table saw were to break in half tonight, I would probably just buy another old piece of iron, remove any guards or gizmos, tune it up, and start making sawdust again. I NEVER take my eye off the prize. I think “what if” before even starting an operation. I shut down the project when I’m fatigued. I have my cocktails in the house (the stereo won’t hurt me). I treat each and every power tool with the respect it requires and deserves, and to date I would have never replaced a cartridge on my saw.

I’ll end with questions of my own: Will a Saw Stop make you less attentive? Will it entice you to take more chances? Cut smaller sections? Slip that thumb between the blade and the fence? If you won’t get hurt, will you become nonchalant? I hope all the answers are “no”.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

wericha said:


> Good video, now I'm 100% sure I'll never buy a saw stop. We process a considerable amount of reclaimed wood. No matter how much time we spend with metal detectors we are always hitting nails.


If you had paid closer attention he mentioned the bypass mode and I'm assuming it's because of that very reason. Even ripping 2x4s off the shelf from big blue, etc. you're likely to has small staples in the ends for ups labeling .. I've had quite a few I can't dig out with a pocket knife..


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Shop rat, I completely get where you're coming from, but you have to know that the vast majority of safety features of these products are not really there for people with years of experience who are very careful about their work. They're there primarily because most people are just plain stupid for lack of a better term. I worked with body shop guys with years of experience who were still not the best and brightest our nation has to offer. 
Even with the best training and greatest experience it only takes a split second of distraction to see your finger go flying..You know that, I know that and everyone except the dumbest and dullest and most arrogant knows that .. All things being equal a great, passive, well engineered safety feature is hard to argue with. I'm pretty sure if we all had to use every bit of the redundant nonsensical safety equipment we'd probably find a different way to either make a living or just pass the time of day..


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## Fredric Altman (Jun 3, 2016)

Pineknot_86 said:


> $1100 for seven stitches? I should have gone to medical school! Mine only cost $310 for three stitches.


I cut the thumbprint off one of my thumbs on a table saw and the ER visit was $1245, way more than the premium you pay for the Sawstop technology. You got a bargain, $310 for an ER visit? Cheap!


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## Fredric Altman (Jun 3, 2016)

<<I’ll end with questions of my own: >>

<<Will a Saw Stop make you less attentive? >>

No.

<<Will it entice you to take more chances? >>

No.

<<Cut smaller sections? >>

No.

<<Slip that thumb between the blade and the fence? >>

No. 

If you won’t get hurt, will you become nonchalant? No.

<<I hope all the answers are “no”>>

They are, but all of us think we are being careful and attentive until we are not careful and attentive. When you have an accident, it will change your perspective immediately.


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## Fredric Altman (Jun 3, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> They should replace them both and probably have a stockpile of used ones they could resell at a reduced rate after reconditioning.... I donno?


I was happy to have the module replaced for free and didn't for a second begrudge Sawstop not replacing the blade for my own stupidity. Replacing a $50 blade versus at least a $1000 ER visit is a no brainer, not to mention permanent damage to my hand.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

allpurpose said:


> If you had paid closer attention he mentioned the bypass mode and I'm assuming it's because of that very reason. Even ripping 2x4s off the shelf from big blue, etc. you're likely to has small staples in the ends for ups labeling .. I've had quite a few I can't dig out with a pocket knife..


And if you paid closer attention to my statement you would understand how bad that idea is. As a typical rabid supporter you would rather force everyone to adopt to your favorite technology than understand it is not the perfect solution for every situation. I would be spending way too much time making sure the system was in bypass mode 95% of the time. Stupid idea.

I have problem with anyone who feels more comfortable with the technology, and I don't think using it makes someone less vigilant when using the saw. But I have a real problem with those who would force the issue through mandate.


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

Fredric Altman said:


> <<I’ll end with questions of my own: >>
> 
> <<Will a Saw Stop make you less attentive? >>
> 
> ...


That's the spirit! Your answers are great, and expected. But your answers cannot be correct. You said it yourself- "until we are not careful and attentive". So, the best you could ever truly answer is "hope not". Problem is, it's been proven and documented time and time again that any technology that makes things easier or safer for us usually makes us dumber, lazier, or simply oblivious.

Anybody here overweight or out of shape? Blame technology. Computers, video games, cell phones, 300 channels, Netflix, etc...

Self driving cars going to make us all safer? Guy just died when his self driver slammed into a truck. Bad part is he was SUPPOSED to still be paying attention. 

Even the little things: Anyone disconnect the seat kill switch on their garden tractor? 

The list is endless. 

Same applies with blade stop technology. Beyond question it WILL save some fingers as designed; there can be no argument to that fact. But... Make no mistake it will also be bypassed a great deal of the time. Nuisance fires will aggravate a given user enough times so that A.) he/she will sell it, or B.) he/she will bypass it. Oh, and the technology will completely fail for someone, sometime. Anything and everything ever made by man will eventually break. Even rocket scientists aren't immune.

The Saw Stop just isn't for some of us. I take more risks than a blade to the finger just getting to work every day. I also ride motorcycles, both on and off road. I rappel off of cliff sides, shoot guns, jet ski behind barge wakes, fly, and participate in a whole host of other recreational pastimes. For me, focus on what I'm doing is the name of the game. 

The old guy who taught me how to fly always said "no matter what the hell is going on around you, and no matter how crazy everyone else gets, and no matter how big or what the problem is, FIRST YOU FLY THE PLANE.


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## Fredric Altman (Jun 3, 2016)

There are many woodworkers who are innately more careful and focused and go through their lives without an accident. Sadly, I'm apparently not one of them. My saw stop still scares me and I am very careful with it I guess because it will cost me $100 or more for a incident. Also I know that absolutely every mechanical/electrical device will fail given enough time. The technology is for me. Hats off to you guys who are so confident and careful.


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

Fredric, it wasn't an ER visit. I went to a local walk-in clinic about three miles from the house. If I had thought of it, I should have used Super Glue- that is what it was developed for in surgery.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Fredric Altman said:


> There are many woodworkers who are innately more careful and focused and go through their lives without an accident. Sadly, I'm apparently not one of them. My saw stop still scares me and I am very careful with it I guess because it will cost me $100 or more for a incident. Also I know that absolutely every mechanical/electrical device will fail given enough time. The technology is for me. Hats off to you guys who are so confident and careful.


If the technology helps you enjoy using your saw, then it is a good thing. 

I remember the same kind of discussion when Honda and BMW started putting ABS brakes on their motorcycles. There were rabid folks on both sides of the issue. Truth is, if you feel safer or more comfortable you are going to enjoy yourself more. I'll never own another motorcycle without ABS brakes, but saw stop technology will most likely never be in my shop due to inherent problems. Everybody gets to choose the safety features they want (as long as it doesn't become a mandate).


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm not big on mandates, but because we do live in a society with a lot of not so bright people some things are going to be mandated simply because of the overabundance of nitwits..
Seat belts are one example. I don't particularly like them, but driving cars are a bit different from table saws. You just don't have hundreds of people standing around your saw gabbing on cell phones, etc., the same way traffic is sometimes..Seat belts were mandated because enough people were killed. I have logged hundreds of thousands of miles behind the wheel with precious few wrecks ,but I can't control every nitwit driving drunk or screaming at their kids or whatever..For most of us the workshop environment is a well controlled environment, but there are still always going to be unforeseen circumstances we just can't predict and the truth of the matter there are no mandates that say anyone has to know didly squat about how to use a table saw so that means that any fool who can afford one can use a table saw with absolutely no training whatsoever. I seriously doubt that any of us hope to hear about thousands of chopped off fingers and hands, but we know that it happens with regularity. We can't really mandate that people use safety features on saws or even use push blocks for that matter. 
Bottom line is I'm glad the technology is available for those who can afford it and I wish I could, but for the time being I'm going to use my inherently unsafe old craftsman saw, try to keep my fingers out of the path of the blade with full knowledge that if I do get distracted for whatever reason I might lose a finger or so. Anyone who uses any piece of equipment has to assume the risks and conduct themselves accordingly.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*seat belts are about the physics involved*

Put a watermelon in a cardboard box in the rear of your SUV, pickup truck and take it up to 45 MPH and slam on the brakes. The watermelon will slide forward and smash into what ever it strikes breaking it into pieces. The same thing would happen to your head/face if it weren't for the seat belt and shoulder strap. Newton's Laws apply, mass, acceleration and momentum all figure into it. Air bags came about because there was still a lot of injuries when the head contacted the steering wheel or the windshield. They are mandated on all vehicles these days, not a bad thing in my opinion. When I rear ended a stopped Chevy Impala in my 67 Camaro, I was not belted and my forehead hit the windshield and cracked it. The speedometer was stuck at 20 MPH. 

Table saws won't kill you, but they can take off fingers in a split second. I think that's the difference as to why the flesh sensing technology has not been mandated ... yet. I hope it never is mandated on newer machines and on older ones they would have to be retrofitted or confiscated/surrendered. That would be way too much government intrusion for me.

The free market allows you to choose your table saw with FST or not. You can operate your saw at home with or without the safety equipment. For the millions of table saw owners who have had no injuries, there are a few thousand each year who are, a number which could be reduced with safety guards and better judgement on the part of the operators. :smile3:


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Treat a Sawstop just as you would any other saw. Only thing different is what you are cutting. Safety on/off is the only question.

This topic is a repeat of many. Years ago many fought it and now praise it. Woodworkers are a funny group..


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