# Sanding After Raising Grain



## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey all,

Quick question.

I have just applied WB sanding sealer to some pine panels. As expected, it raised the grain. No big deal but I am just curious as to what grit is appropriate to use for sanding the grain back down? Before applying the sealer I sanded to 180 grit with a ROS. Should I take the grain back down now by sanding at 180 with the ROS? Should I sand by hand?

I have done this several times before but never really new what the accepted practice is after the grain has been raised.

Thanks


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## Calzone (May 15, 2012)

Invest five bucks and get a couple card scrapers online~

a great investment, and one of the few alternatives to preparing a surface for a finish.

I actually hate sandpaper on wood for a multitude of reasons, so I always end up using card scrapers, and it really does create a nice finish.


Additionally, you could blow thirty bucks on a burnishing rod (to sharpen) but a long screwdriver works.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Quick question.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say there is an accepted practice as to grits. I would use the smoothest that does the job. If you applied a stain or dye, and then a sealer, I might apply more than one coat of sealer before sanding. You don't want to sand through whatever application you have already applied, but enough to level out what was raised. See what 220x does before going any coarser.

I use mostly oil base stains or alcohol dyes, and get no grain raising.









 







.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I wouldn't say there is an accepted practice as to grits. I would use the smoothest that does the job. If you applied a stain or dye, and then a sealer, I might apply more than one coat of sealer before sanding. You don't want to sand through whatever application you have already applied, but enough to level out what was raised. See what 220x does before going any coarser.
> 
> I use mostly oil base stains or alcohol dyes, and get no grain raising.
> 
> ...


Thank you sir. No stains or dyes. This was Pro Finishers sanding sealer right on the raw wood.....

Tried 220 and not make a big difference. I'll go down a grit until it gets where I need it. To your point, I hope I don't sand through what I put on.....


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

In general, the process is to lightly wet the surface, allow it to dry and then lightly sand with 220 paper on a flat sanding block or pad. Sand by hand in the direction of the grain. Use only minimal pressure.

That said, you may want to read the following. It was published by a friend of mine who is a long time finisher. Since reading it, I have stopped "raising the grain" and saved a lot of time.

QUOTE

Let's first understand what raised grain is; raised grain is created by sanding and to a lesser extent planning or scraping. As you smooth the wood with any of these operations you cut wood fibers such that they are free to flap about (they are not continuous). When you apply ANY liquid the loosened fibers absorb the liquid, swell, and protrude upward from the surface of the wood. When the liquid evaporates the fibers remain in their upright position. It is a bit (though not exactly) like your hair behaves when you get it cut short—it doesn't lay flat, but wants to stick up.

To a certain extent this problem (if it even is a problem) can be alleviated by pre-raising the grain. This is done by sanding to your final grit and then lightly wetting the surface with water to intentionally raise the grain. When the water evaporates you can then very lightly sand to remove the raised wood fibers. The theory is that once raised (and removed) the fibers won't raise again under finish. The problem is that the theory is correct; but, it is the execution that is flawed. It is true that the fibers that rose before won't rise again. But, when you cut them away with the light sanding you expose new fibers that were previously held in place by the ones you just removed. These will rise when you apply your finish.

In short, the whole issue of pre-raising the grain, and raised grain following the application of a water-soluble dye is a big so-what. It (pre-raising the grain) is a finishing step to be executed by folks with entirely too much time on their hands. Why? Simple! Here are a couple of clues. What happens to the raised grain when you apply your first coat of finish? Some folks like to refer to this coat as the "sealer" coat because it seals the grain. Many of us, when using oil-based finishes prefer to thin the first coat more than succeeding coats so that it will better penetrate the grain. Any thoughts yet..?

The first coat locks the raised fibers in place so that when you sand prior to applying the next coat of finish you remove them and level the surface. You didn't need to go to all the effort of either preventing them or removing them. They don't cause a problem (other than to those among us that believe the wood should be baby butt smooth at the end of all finishing steps). They are no more an issue than any of the other causes of roughness in your first finish coat.

For what little it may be worth, I sand to 180g or 220g, or scrape, depending on the wood; apply my dye, and then apply the finish. I never engage in pre-raising the grain and I emphatically emphasize that the color coat, however applied, should not be sanded. The bottom line, Don't spend a lot of time agonizing over the first step in your finishing schedule. The color coat requires only a visual inspection—did you get the color you wanted and is it consistent and evenly applied. How it feels is irrelevant. Get on with your topcoat making sure that it is properly thinned and applied so as to minimize air bubbles, dust, brush or wiping marks, etc. and let the finish level itself by attending to proper technique. After applying your first coat, let it dry and then lightly sand. You will be sanding the first coat, not the stain or the wood surface.

CLOSE QUOTE


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