# Cutting more than 45 on a miter saw.



## WillemJM

My miter saw goes to I think 48 degrees max angle. So to cut a 55 degree angle for instance is not possible, without a jig or some sort of set up.

Anyone do this?


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## GeorgeC

Just cut a 35 degree angle on the other side.

Edited to correct either a math or typing error.

George


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## WillemJM

GeorgeC said:


> Just cut a 45 degree angle on the other side.
> 
> George


A miter saw cuts 90 when in the middle of its turn radius.

If you swing 45 clock or anti-clock, your work piece will end up with a 45 angle. Anything smaller, in each direction, say 30/60 degrees on your scale, your work piece will end up with a 60 degree angle, provided the length of your board is against the miter saw fence.

It follows as per the original post, to cut an angle you would get by turing the blade through 55 degrees, to give an angle on the work piece of 35 degrees is not possible, unless you make a fence that runs perpendicular to the miter saw fence.


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## TomC

WillemJM said:


> My miter saw goes to I think 48 degrees max angle. So to cut a 55 degree angle for instance is not possible, without a jig or some sort of set up.
> 
> Anyone do this?


I don't understand the problem. To cut a 55 degree angle I would set the saw at 35 degrees and use the piece that does not have the 35 degree angle.
Tom


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## GeorgeC

WillemJM said:


> A miter saw cuts 90 when in the middle of its turn radius.
> 
> If you swing 45 clock or anti-clock, your work piece will end up with a 45 angle. Anything smaller, in each direction, say 30/60 degrees on your scale, your work piece will end up with a 60 degree angle, provided the length of your board is against the miter saw fence.
> 
> It follows as per the original post, to cut an angle you would get by turing the blade through 55 degrees, to give an angle on the work piece of 35 degrees is not possible, unless you make a fence that runs perpendicular to the miter saw fence.


Change that "say 30/60 degrees " to 35/55 degrees and you have shown the origina poster how to do the job.

George


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## duncsuss

GeorgeC said:


> Change that "say 30/60 degrees " to 35/55 degrees and you have shown the origina poster how to do the job.
> 
> George


I dunno ... last time I checked, a straight piece of lumber has an angle of 180 degrees.

Turn the miter saw blade 30 degrees clockwise and cut. You now have 2 pieces of wood -- neither of which has a 60 degree angle.

*edit:* bzzzt ... I meant to write "turn the blade 30 degrees off square, and you'll have 2 pieces of wood, each having a 60 degree angle and a 120 degree angle -- but not a 30 degree angle ...


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## TomC

duncsuss said:


> I dunno ... last time I checked, a straight piece of lumber has an angle of 180 degrees.
> 
> Turn the miter saw blade 30 degrees clockwise and cut. You now have 2 pieces of wood -- neither of which has a 60 degree angle.


It all depends on your point of reference!
Tom


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## cabinetman

If you want 55 degrees, why not set a 45 degree triangle against the fence and rotate the saw to 10 degrees?












 







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## duncsuss

TomC said:


> It all depends on your point of reference!
> Tom


Sorry, I garbled what I meant to write ... 

cabinetman hit it on the head -- in order to leave an angle sharper than 45 degrees on the end of the workpiece, you'd have to start with the workpiece angled away from the fence.


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## sawdustfactory

What are you trying to make that needs an angle greater than 45?


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## woodnthings

*angles on the mitersaw*

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/angles-setting-miter-saw-9644/
This is sort of confusing since the miter saw setting of zero is really 90 degrees. So, you can make a wood spacer cut with a known angle of 30 degrees to get the greater angle of 55 degrees by setting the saw at 5 degrees.
90 - 30 = 60 - 55 = 5  bill


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## TomC

duncsuss said:


> Sorry, I garbled what I meant to write ...
> 
> cabinetman hit it on the head -- in order to leave an angle sharper than 45 degrees on the end of the workpiece, you'd have to start with the workpiece angled away from the fence.


I still don't see the problem. I believe I could made the cut without any problem; depending on the width of cut. Can the poster indicate the size of the piece in question.
Tom


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## TomC

What's the difference between a 35 degree angle and a 55 degree angle. If I set the saw at 35 degrees and the piece flat on the base the angle relative to the blade at the fence is 35 and the opposite angle is 55 degrees.
Tom


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## TomC

Never mind, I think I see the problem.
Tom


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## WillemJM

LOL, I had a 7 year sabatical from woodwork, so glad to see I'm not the only one who got confused.

I had to cut 24 braces for chair seats. The front braces had angles of 50 degrees, no problem on my miter saw, tilted to 40 degrees (40+50=90) but the back braces had to be cut to 35 degree angles and I thought I could do that on the miter also. Ended up doing the latter on my table saw.

Could have used an angle against the fence, but I use stops to make sure every piece is exactly the same size, which complicates the matter a bit.


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## Jwantes

*Cutting 30 degrees with a miter saw*

The miter saw is not designed to cut a 30 degree angle. That said there is an easy way to do it but it is dangerous and if you are not paying attention you can be injured. 

Set the saw at 30 degrees. Hold the molding perpendicular to the fence making sure that the blade will begin cutting at the corner of the wood and not further in. If the wood is a 2x4 the blade is barely large enough to complete the cut. If you set the wood on its edge wear body armor because the saw may shoot the cut piece at you.


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## dognobbler

If you are cutting long lengths of wood that require angles like that would the piece to the right of your blade be of the correct angle but just upside down. This is assuming you blade tilts to the left. Then reset to straight cut to cut to length. Or just use a protractor and a circular saw.


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## DaveTTC

WillemJM said:


> My miter saw goes to I think 48 degrees max angle. So to cut a 55 degree angle for instance is not possible, without a jig or some sort of set up.
> 
> Anyone do this?


My dewalt goes to 57 in one direction I think 48 in the other. 

Sometimes I screw a sacrificial fence to the saw and after cutting a 90 deg cut I place the cut against the fence and then set my saw to get the desired angle. You need to make sure your timber is supported and maybe clamped. Only do this if you feel safe doing so.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Jory

I assume you want the cut on a long piece of wood or you wouldn't have the problem. One answer is to clamp a temporary fence to your saw that is 90 degrees (perpendicular) to the fence you would normally be using. Then cut the miter at an angle that is 90 degrees minus the angle you want. i.e. if you want a 53 degree miter set the saw to 90-53 or 37 degrees.


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## woodnthings

*It doen't need to be 90 degress...*



Jory said:


> I assume you want the cut on a long piece of wood or you wouldn't have the problem. One answer is to *clamp a temporary fence to your saw that is 90 degrees *(perpendicular) to the fence you would normally be using. Then cut the miter at an angle that is 90 degrees minus the angle you want. i.e. if you want a 53 degree miter set the saw to 90-53 or 37 degrees.


http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/angles-setting-miter-saw-9644/
It can be what ever works, is safest or most convenient. Here's a link to this issue I posted a while ago. BTW 45 degrees is the only setting where the angles on both the machine and the work are the same. The saw setting is 90 degrees minus the degree on the indicator.... 90 degrees on the work is 0 degrees on the machine. 10 degrees on the machine yields a 80 degree angle measured on the workpiece with a protractor.


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## Razaray

Cant believe it took 15 posts to barely answer wills question. It is very obvious that all he is asking is the best and safest way to cut a greater angle than the saw conventionally allows. I say the best thing to do is just make a 90deg angle jig with increments of 5 degrees. Set your saw at 45 and just set your jig at the extra angle you need, hold and cut. He obviously wasn't asking how to make small 50 degree jog. More like 100 degrees.


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## woodnthings

*it is confusing because...*



Razaray said:


> Cant believe it took 15 posts to barely answer wills question. It is very obvious that all he is asking is the best and safest way to cut a greater angle than the saw conventionally allows. I say the best thing to do is just make a 90 deg angle jig with increments of 5 degrees. Set your saw at 45 and just set your jig at the extra angle you need, hold and cut. He obviously wasn't asking how to make small 50 degree jog. More like 100 degrees.


The saw is 90 degrees to the fence at "0" on it's scale. :yes:
No need to make an adjustable fence, since the saw itself is adjustable, but you do need a fixed fence, say at 45 degrees to act as the stop off the fence. EX: You need a 35 degree angle? (90 minus 45 is 45, need 35, set saw to 10 degrees.

The thread started "how to cut an angle more than 45 degrees" For example, you need a 60 degree angle on the work piece. Set the saw to 30 degrees, no additional fence required.

The same issue on the table saw miter gauge which is also 90 degrees to the blade when the scale is at "0". To get a 60 degree angle on the workpiece, set the miter gauge to 30 degrees:


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## TomC

Razaray said:


> Cant believe it took 15 posts to barely answer wills question. It is very obvious that all he is asking is the best and safest way to cut a greater angle than the saw conventionally allows. I say the best thing to do is just make a 90deg angle jig with increments of 5 degrees. Set your saw at 45 and just set your jig at the extra angle you need, hold and cut. He obviously wasn't asking how to make small 50 degree jog. More like 100 degrees.


Great first post and first impression! But, welcome aboard.
Tom


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## Razaray

1. It wasn't confusing because he obviously wasn't asking how to do something that we all know the saw is easily capable of doing. It doesn't matter what the "scale" reads, he clearly just wanted advice on how to cut a sharper angle.

2. I mentioned an adjustable jig cause if your gonna go through the work to make any kind of holder you might as well spend 10 more minutes and make it adjustable. And if you are using it in a restricted space and you only need to angle it 10 degrees to get your cut, that would probably be best when you have 10 ft of molding or whatever. And why a solid 45 jig, why not a simple 90.

3. What do first impressions matter. I'm just trying to get people to not be narrow minded if someone asks an obvious question but a little out of context. There was only two ways to take his question. The first could be easily disregarded cause why would someone ask something so obvious. I work in tool and die with people that should understand angles and compound angles given there time in and experience. But the problem is they all don't. It a fairly essential part of their job but most of them can't trig out an angle let alone wrap their heads around it. So in that way I was surprised to see that it took 15 posts to answer an obvious question from a guy who was just trying to learn from experience.


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## cabinetman

Razaray said:


> Cant believe it took 15 posts to barely answer wills question.


 





 
We have an introduction section where you can say a few words about yourself. If you fill out your profile in your "User Control Panel", you can list any hobbies, experience or other facts. You can also list your general geographical location which would be a help in answering some questions. In doing that your location will show under your username when you post. 












 








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## shoot summ

My Bosch saw cuts up to 60 degrees on the right.

As others have stated, you are starting at 90 degrees, when you cut at 45 degrees you get two pieces with 45 degree cuts on them. Any other increment gives youtwo pieces, with angles that add up to 90 degrees. So to get to 55 degrees, you would cut at 35 degrees, one board(waste) will be 35 degrees, and the other will be 55 degrees.


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## w1pers

WillemJM said:


> LOL, I had a 7 year sabatical from woodwork, so glad to see I'm not the only one who got confused.
> 
> I had to cut 24 braces for chair seats. The front braces had angles of 50 degrees, no problem on my miter saw, tilted to 40 degrees (40+50=90) but the back braces had to be cut to 35 degree angles and I thought I could do that on the miter also. Ended up doing the latter on my table saw.
> 
> Could have used an angle against the fence, but I use stops to make sure every piece is exactly the same size, which complicates the matter a bit.


 I am by no means an expert woodworker, but using the table saw was the 1st thing that came to my mind. Although the problem itself is interesting and if you didn't have a table saw how could you accomplish it? The answers given here are a little confusing to me. I am a visual person. A jig ,of some kind, was the only other thing I could think of.


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## jigs-n-fixtures

If the image I have where you want an acute angle of 60-degrees at the tip of the cut piece: It takes a jig. There is no way to cut an angle grater than what the scale on the saw reads without a jig. 

Mine is at 45-degrees to the fence, and hooks to my DeWalt 705 using the holes for the crown molding stops. Having it at 45-degrees takes a little bit of math, but I'm good at math. The upside is that it decreases the push force towards the saw fence.


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## woodnthings

*OK, I give up*

Here's what I've been saying for the last umteen posts, he even uses the word "confusing" post no. 29 ....... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFATCVFwKF8

The jig is necessary to cut an angle *less* than 45 degrees.


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## Razaray

Even w1pers who says he is not an expert understands the question. Those of you who keep reverting to technical stuff and the fact that the blade is 90deg to the fence need to settle down and just answer the guys question. If not for him, anyone else who needs advise on the subject. If anyone is still "confused" as to what the question might be, consider reading my other replies before repeating the same, even more confusing answers. The guy obviously wants to make a cut past the 45 degree limits of the saw which means he'll have to position the piece at a know angle that is at least the desired cut angle minus 45. If you know what 1+1 equals you can figure this kind of stuff out. Just don't over think it.


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## woodnthings

*We have a 3 post woodworking wizard*



Razaray said:


> Cant believe it took 15 posts to barely answer wills question. It is very obvious that all he is asking is the best and safest way to cut a greater angle than the saw conventionally allows. I say the best thing to do is just make a 90deg angle jig with increments of 5 degrees. Set your saw at 45 and just set your jig at the extra angle you need, hold and cut. He obviously wasn't asking how to make small 50 degree jog. More like 100 degrees.





Razaray said:


> 1. It wasn't confusing because he obviously wasn't asking how to do something that we all know the saw is easily capable of doing. It doesn't matter what the "scale" reads, he clearly just wanted advice on how to cut a sharper angle.
> 
> 2. I mentioned an adjustable jig cause if your gonna go through the work to make any kind of holder you might as well spend 10 more minutes and make it adjustable. And if you are using it in a restricted space and you only need to angle it 10 degrees to get your cut, that would probably be best when you have 10 ft of molding or whatever. And why a solid 45 jig, why not a simple 90.
> 
> 3. What do first impressions matter. I'm just trying to get people to not be narrow minded if someone asks an obvious question but a little out of context. There was only two ways to take his question. The first could be easily disregarded cause why would someone ask something so obvious. I work in tool and die with people that should understand angles and compound angles given there time in and experience. But the problem is they all don't. It a fairly essential part of their job but most of them can't trig out an angle let alone wrap their heads around it. So in that way I was surprised to see that it took 15 posts to answer an obvious question from a guy who was just trying to learn from experience.





Razaray said:


> Even w1pers who says he is not an expert understands the question. Those of you who keep reverting to technical stuff and the fact that the blade is 90deg to the fence need to settle down and just answer the guys question. If not for him, anyone else who needs advise on the subject. If anyone is still "confused" as to what the question might be, consider reading my other replies before repeating the same, even more confusing answers. The guy obviously wants to make a cut past the 45 degree limits of the saw which means he'll have to position the piece at a know angle that is at least the desired cut angle minus 45. If you know what 1+1 equals you can figure this kind of stuff out. Just don't over think it.


Here comes Razaray, a 3 post wizard, no intro, no history or proof his experience or expertise complaining about a thread that was posted a while back which had been resolved by the OP by his third post, where he used a table saw .... if he had bother to read it?

Who are you to come in all fire and brimstone and flame our members with your arrogance? If some members find the scale on the miter saw and miter gauge "confusing" it's not up to you to say they aren't. The scales and the actual resulting angles do not result in the cut being identical, they are different. This difference and relationship was fully explained. There were reasonable solutions posted by members here, including photos of the issues, a You Tube video and you post nothing but bloviation suggesting we are all ignorant and you have all the answers. That is not the way we operate here. Where are the photos of your "adjustable" jig?

Come back when you have cleaned up your "act" and you may be welcome, but for as now, you can find another forum to beat your drum or pound sand whatever ... :boat:


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## Razaray

I really didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. If this many people have a hard time talking about resulting angles on mitre saws maybe the manufacturers should change the scales, or make them digital LOL. Sounds stupid right? Cause it is. I think they expect that if your attempting to use a mitre saw, hopefully you can understand that there are 360 degrees in a circle and how to add, subtract, multiply and divide. Oh and if my last post "confused" anyone, 1+1=2. There were ways to ask him just what angle he was asking about. It was not confusing.


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## woodnthings

*Really?*



Razaray said:


> I really didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
> A thinly veiled apology, if any.
> 
> If this many people have a hard time talking about resulting angles on mitre saws maybe the manufacturers should change the scales, or make them digital LOL.
> You answered your own statement
> 
> Sounds stupid right? Cause it is.
> You answered your own statement again.
> 
> I think they expect that if your attempting to use a mitre saw, hopefully you can understand that there are 360 degrees in a circle and how to add, subtract, multiply and divide.
> Some folks are new to the operation of the tool, and it's nomenclature/markings.
> Probably they are able to multiply and divide and don't deserve an an insulting and "holier than thou" explanation of how to:
> Oh and if my last post "confused" anyone, 1+1=2.
> 
> There were ways to ask him just what angle he was asking about.
> So it was confusing to some :yes:
> 
> 
> It was not confusing.
> You can't have it both ways. :no:


Anyone besides me, see a problem here?
Is the word moron capitalized or hyphenated? just askin' :whistling2:

Where your intro?
Where's your 90 degree adjustable jig photos?
I'm not goin' away. I'm retired so my time is my own.


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## cabinetman

woodnthings said:


> Anyone besides me, see a problem here?
> Is the word moron capitalized or hyphenated? just askin' :whistling2:


It would depend if it's more on or more off? :laughing:








 








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## WillemJM

Bill,

Looks like the cold weather is getting to you, lighten up.:smile:

Old thread, look at the original post date.


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## woodnthings

*it is cold as hell*



WillemJM said:


> Bill,
> 
> Looks like the cold weather is getting to you, lighten up.:smile:
> 
> Old thread, look at the original post date.


I know when the thread started, I do pay attention to those thread dates. :yes: And that's part of the problem. This issue was solved a long time ago, so bringing it up in such a hostile manner didn't sit well with me. Besides, it's so cold there's nothing left to do but bang on this keyboard... I'm not goin' away anytime soon... :boat:

However, I will honor your request and back off on your thread.


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## Al B Thayer

Oh my! Not this again. I'm running for the popcorn. My bet is on Wooden and I haven't read a single post yet.

Al


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## Al B Thayer

When I comes to math and cuts that require math. I'm looking for another way through it. I'm much more proud of playing the dumb card now that I'm older. All the smarty smart guys here with the trig up their sleeve and their obvious nose in the air answers can bang the drum. More power to you. And I mean that in a good way. But too many times we forget or fail to understand where the OP may be in their woodworking experience and take the thread to the mountain top and beyond.

Hope to have the popcorn ready next time this thread rears it's head in a few weeks or so.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## WillemJM

woodnthings said:


> I know when the thread started, I do pay attention to those thread dates. :yes: And that's part of the problem. This issue was solved a long time ago, so bringing it up in such a hostile manner didn't sit well with me. Besides, it's so cold there's nothing left to do but bang on this keyboard... I'm not goin' away anytime soon... :boat:
> 
> However, I will honor your request and back off on your thread.


Good time to go make some sawdust. The weather has me bored as well, send me a project with many weird miter angles, I will do the 3D design piece by piece, while you make sawdust and we can keep this thread going forever.:laughing:


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## woodnthings

*No weird angles ....*

Just make a 3-4-5 triangle using mitered corners.
The 90 degree will be easy at 45 degrees each. The 30 will require 15 degrees each and the 60 degree will have 30 degree miters...

Anyone else? :blink: Show step by step photos of stops, jigs or other methods using the miter saw only.....


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## Jory

*More than 45 Degrees*

Wow this is a fun subject. I am sorry that I am late getting in on it. First of all I wonder if the question was about using a hand saw wooden or a metal miter box. Assuming that this is not the case the question may relate to a chop saw or a table saw.

If the question is about using a table saw the question could well be about one of safety. Cutting severe angle using the miter gauge that comes with a saw can be spooky because the wood tends to move on the gauge. Back when I made the AngleWright tool I always included in the box pieces of sticky back 220 grit sandpaper that could be stuck on the surface to prevent the wood from sliding while being cut.

If the problem relates to a chop saw, I can see a problem with some of the suggestions in that the wood being cut could be quite long and very difficult to position at 90 degrees to the saw so the complementary angle can be cut. In addition if the angle is extreme enough the blade may not be able to make a cut as long as needed.

Anyway, I recently had a somewhat similar problem. At least similar in that I wanted to conveniently cut a support piece that would attach to two side pieces splayed at 84 degrees. I mean 6 degrees from vertical. The two angles had to be the same. Normally this would require cutting one piece and then resetting the miter gauge to the opposite angle, something that is very difficult to do when a person is trying to be accurate to a fraction of a degree. My answer was to cut one piece of scrap wood at 6 degrees, leave the miter guide at its normal 90 degree setting, and place the scrap wood with the wide end close to the blade for the first cut and then flip it over to cut the other end. This way the two angles would be identical. It did not require moving the miter gauge to the other miter slot (which in my shop would have been difficult) or adjusting the gauge to a precise angle. If the scrap was off by a little the error would be the same for both pieces which would be acceptable.

Angle cutting, especially bevel angles has always been and interesting subject. I have seen a lot of woodworkers using an adjustable bevel to set the tilt of a table saw blade without first aligning it carefully with the miter gauge to be perpendicular to the blade. This always results in the wrong angle being cut.


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## Al B Thayer

For me everything I make is square. 

If anyone is still using a miter gauge and expecting an accurate cut. They must live in a bubble. Gota build a sled or two.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## cabinetman

Al B Thayer said:


> For me everything I make is square.
> 
> If anyone is still using a miter gauge and expecting an accurate cut. They must live in a bubble. Gota build a sled or two.
> 
> Al
> 
> Nails only hold themselves.


Many do and get accurate cuts.








 








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## woodnthings

*Make a 30, 60, 90 Triangle on the Miter Saw*

I decided to take up my own challenge of making a 3-4-5 triangle which would involve miters at 45 degrees, 30 degrees and 15 degrees using only a miter saw. I almost succeeded falling just short in the length of the cut at 15 degrees which I finished up on the bandsaw. If I had used more narrow stock it may have been possible, but the principles still apply:


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## woodnthings

*continued from above*

The 15 degree miter was a bit "unsafe" hand held, so I clamped the workpiece down. I used the bandsaw to complete the cut since the travel was limited on the slider.


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## TimPa

woodnthings said:


> I decided to take up my own challenge of making a 3-4-5 triangle which would involve miters at 45 degrees, 30 degrees and 15 degrees using only a miter saw. :


Bill I applaud you on showing us your method, thanks you. your description of a 3-4-5 trinagle is interesting. 

in math, i've learned another description - that the 3-4-5 are the ratio's of the _side lengths_, that will create a *right triangle* (with a 90 degree corner). the handiness of that is that when doing layouts, we almost always have a rule to measure out 3,4 and 5 increments (inches, feet yards, etc.), to establish a right triangle. (of which the interior angles are 90, 36.9, and 53.1). i've also seen your triangle called a 30-60-90 triangle fwiw.


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## cabinetman

TimPa said:


> in math, i've learned another description - that the 3-4-5 are the ratio's of the _side lengths_, that will create a *right triangle* (with a 90 degree corner). the handiness of that is that when doing layouts, we almost always have a rule to measure out 3,4 and 5 increments (inches, feet yards, etc.), to establish a right triangle. (of which the interior angles are 90, 36.9, and 51.3). i've also seen your triangle called a 30-60-90 triangle fwiw.


The 3-4-5 is a very old method. I can remember as a kid , I was about 5 or 6, and we had a crew constructing an addition. The carpenters used that to create a perpendicular line off one side of the building. They could have used the bisect angle doo wah method, but their triangle was already fabricated.








 








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## woodnthings

*good points here*



Jory said:


> Wow this is a fun subject.
> 
> If the problem relates to a chop saw, I can see a problem with some of the suggestions in that the wood being cut could be quite long and very difficult to position at 90 degrees to the saw so the complementary angle can be cut. *In addition if the angle is extreme enough the blade may not be able to make a cut as long *as needed.
> 
> Anyway, I recently had a somewhat similar problem. At least similar in that I wanted to conveniently cut a support piece that would attach to two side pieces splayed at 84 degrees. I mean 6 degrees from vertical. The two angles had to be the same. Normally this would require cutting one piece and then resetting the miter gauge to the opposite angle, something that is very difficult to do when a person is trying to be accurate to a fraction of a degree. *My answer was to cut one piece of scrap wood at 6 degrees, leave the miter guide at its normal 90 degree setting, and place the scrap wood with the wide end close to the blade for the first cut and then flip it over to cut the other end.* This way the two angles would be identical. It did not require moving the miter gauge to the other miter slot (which in my shop would have been difficult) or adjusting the gauge to a precise angle. If the scrap was off by a little the error would be the same for both pieces which would be acceptable. .


Good tip on the miter gauge! And you are exactly correct on the length of cut on the miter saw, sometimes it ain't enough. A radial arm saw would have worked better, but it was not part of my self imposed rules. :no:



TimPa said:


> Bill I applaud you on showing us your method, thanks you. your description of a 3-4-5 trinagle is interesting.
> 
> in math, i've learned another description - that the 3-4-5 are the ratio's of the _side lengths_, that will create a *right triangle* (with a 90 degree corner). the handiness of that is that when doing layouts, we almost always have a rule to measure out 3,4 and 5 increments (inches, feet yards, etc.), to establish a right triangle. (of which the interior angles are 90,* 36.9, and 51.3*). i've also seen your triangle called a 30-60-90 triangle fwiw.


Tim I don't question the math skills which you have amply demonstrated previously! However, I wonder about the angles you posted...:blink:

Math is NOT my expertise, but I do have considerable experience with draftsman's triangles, having drawn up a few house plans in school and for my own home. From what I remember in math class....

Pythegoras Theorem states that a* + b* = c* where * is (squared)
This works for a right triangle with a 90 degree corner opposite the longest side, the hypotenuse. I suppose you could vary the angles a bit to get your values of 36.9 and 51.3 for the included angles, but for us math challenged folks and to keep things simple, I prefer the 30 and 60 degree angles.

Math is fun...?
http://www.mathsisfun.com/pythagoras.html


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## Zircon

We all know that the miter saw is a machine designed to do cross cutting. As we swing the machine up to an angle of 45 degrees, we can still think of the cut as a type of cross cut. Past 45 degrees where we put a sharp point on the work piece, it becomes more of a rip rather than a cross cut. Rather than trying to rip on a miter saw, I prefer to use the table saw with a taper jig between the fence and the workpiece to put a sharp point on the workpiece. Handle it as one would do a tapered table leg on a table saw.


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## TimPa

woodnthings said:


> Pythegoras Theorem states that a* + b* = c* where * is (squared)
> This works for a right triangle with a 90 degree corner opposite the longest side, the hypotenuse.


You're exactly right Bill, thanks for including the theory. 
3* + 4* = 5*, or 9 + 16 = 25. 
that one works so easy because we can remembr those squared values.

it uses trig to calculate the angles. (e.g 3/5 = 0.6, the cosine of .6 = 53.1 deg) 

OOOPS i see, my angle was off. i wrote 51.3 deg instead of 53.1 deg. Thanks Bill. corrected.


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## woodnthings

*If I recall that's how it was done...*

WillemJM's third post said he ultimately used the table saw. I also made a jig that sat in the miter slot for a 22.5 degree angle cut myself. That's a common angle for flag display boxes if I recall correctly. It was much safer as well as being more accurate. :yes:

The 22.5 is mentioned here: http://www.diablowoodworkers.com/flagconst.html


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## woodnthings

*Oooops!*



TimPa said:


> You're exactly right Bill, thanks for including the theory.
> 3* + 4* = 5*, or 9 + 16 = 25.
> that one works so easy because we can remembr those squared values.
> 
> it uses trig to calculate the angles. (e.g 3/5 = 0.6, the cosine of .6 = 53.1 deg)
> 
> OOOPS i see, my angle was off. i wrote 51.3 deg instead of 53.1 deg. Thanks Bill. corrected.


No, thank you for pointing out that the angles will be slightly different on a 3-4-5 triangle. :yes:
I just ass-uu-me-d that they would be the same as on a 30/60/90, not so.:no: Math challenged wins again. Sorry.

What I set out to make was the 30-60-90, but I called it a 3-4-5, my bad! Regardless, the use of the miter saw for cutting those angles less than 45 degrees has issues with procedure, knowing to cut the complement of the angle etc, and safety. JMO.


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## Al B Thayer

cabinetman said:


> Many do and get accurate cuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


No they don't .

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer

woodnthings said:


> The 15 degree miter was a bit "unsafe" hand held, so I clamped the workpiece down. I used the bandsaw to complete the cut since the travel was limited on the slider.


In picture one of this post. Why aren't we moving the miter saw the other direction away from the work?

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## cabinetman

Al B Thayer said:


> No they don't .
> 
> Nails only hold themselves.


Sorry to hear that you don't get accurate cuts. I do. It's a matter of learning to use your tools. A blanket statement that nobody does, and they live in a bubble is just nonsense.








 








.


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## woodnthings

*maybe we did?*



Al B Thayer said:


> In picture one of this post. Why aren't we moving the miter saw the other direction away from the work?
> 
> Al
> 
> Nails only hold themselves.


The video blew up?  I can't remember for sure....
Either way, I didn't want to hand hold that sucker, I wanted it clamped down. It didn't really matter since the cut wasn't gonna cut it.


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## jigs-n-fixtures

woodnthings said:


> I decided to take up my own challenge of making a 3-4-5 triangle which would involve miters at 45 degrees, 30 degrees and 15 degrees using only a miter saw. I almost succeeded falling just short in the length of the cut at 15 degrees which I finished up on the bandsaw. If I had used more narrow stock it may have been possible, but the principles still apply:


One comment to make the 15-degree cut safer: Add a sacrificial fence in front of the stock fence on your miter saw. 

This gives you two things. Firs,t a zero clearance cut to align your work piece to. Second, a better support for the piece your cutting than the gap in the stock fence.


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## Al B Thayer

cabinetman said:


> Sorry to hear that you don't get accurate cuts. I do. It's a matter of learning to use your tools. A blanket statement that nobody does, and they live in a bubble is just nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You can't cut anything but a 90 with it. Can't make a frame unless you have all day to make 50 cuts to get 4 correct. 

I haven't used it in 20 years because I do fine woodworking. Sled is where it's at. Silly to try to convince me otherwise. Silly to try to put me down too. Your such a Buzzkillington.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer

woodnthings said:


> The video blew up?  I can't remember for sure....
> Either way, I didn't want to hand hold that sucker, I wanted it clamped down. It didn't really matter since the cut wasn't gonna cut it.


Right but can't I just clamp a new fence perp to the blade and cut away? Wood to the left and saw to the right. Im not near my shop or I'd give it a try.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## woodnthings

*Ya mean like this?*



Al B Thayer said:


> *Right but can't I just clamp a new fence perp to the blade and cut away*? Wood to the left and saw to the right. Im not near my shop or I'd give it a try.
> .


Add on fence clamped perp to the saw's fence...cut away... :yes:

Nope, that's not what you said. I don't get it. Go home and make one....


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## Gilgaron

The last time I had to cut an angle like this I just scribed it, cut it freehand on the bandsaw and planed down to the line with a jack plane. The jigs would be useful if you had to do a bunch of these and didn't have time to do a rough and tune routine, but if you've only a few then you'd be done with them before you were done making the jig otherwise.


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## Al B Thayer

Hey Bill

This does seem to work for me. But it was just a thin piece of plywood. 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## TimPa

nice job al. how did you hold the workpiece in place? the hand would obviously been dangerously close to the blade, and the piece wants to be pulled back. thus, the crux of this thread. difficult to clamp, zero clearance fence would help safety some. 

i think that we all agree that a desired cut less than the miter saw is capable of is asking more than the saw was safely designed to perform. another cut method should be considered. table saw and sled is what i use.


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## cabinetman

TimPa said:


> nice job al. how did you hold the workpiece in place? the hand would obviously been dangerously close to the blade, and the piece wants to be pulled back. thus, the crux of this thread. difficult to clamp, zero clearance fence would help safety some.


+1. :yes: The Craftsman owners manual warns against unsafe operating methods.








 







.


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## FrankC

To make a 60 degree cut start by cutting board at 45 degrees, set saw to 15 degrees, lay cut edge against fence and clamp in position. Make cut.


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## woodnthings

*hey Frank...*

Which of those angles is 60 degrees? They look like 30 degrees to me.... :blink:


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## FrankC

woodnthings said:


> Which of those angles is 60 degrees? They look like 30 degrees to me.... :blink:


Comparing apples to apples it is the 60 degrees you want to cut on the saw but can't that is really 30 degrees except when it is measured off 90 degrees it becomes 60 degrees for conversation sake. :laughing:


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## woodnthings

*I've been sayin' that for years....*



FrankC said:


> Comparing apples to apples it is the 60 degrees you want to cut on the saw but can't that is really 30 degrees except when it is measured off 90 degrees it becomes 60 degrees for conversation sake. :laughing:


Great minds think alike. :blink: :boat::whistling2:


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## FrankC

*Okay Bill*

I have often wondered why the numbers are set up in this manner, checked an old Stanley box for a backsaw and it is the same. There has to be a logical reason other than to confuse us.


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## cabinetman

FrankC said:


> Comparing apples to apples it is the 60 degrees you want to cut on the saw but can't that is really 30 degrees except when it is measured off 90 degrees it becomes 60 degrees for conversation sake. :laughing:


You can go for the best two out of three. :yes:








 








.


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## woodnthings

*confused? who's confused?*



FrankC said:


> I have often wondered why the numbers are set up in this manner, checked an old Stanley box for a backsaw and it is the same. There has to be a logical reason other than to *confuse* us.


If this is all it takes to confuse 2 old timers, just imagine what a novice must think when they set the saw to any angle other than 45 degrees and it comes out the complement, or 90 degrees minus the setting on the scale. HUH? :blink:

That why I started this thread way back when: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/angles-setting-miter-saw-9644/

As to why "someone" thought it was great idea, I donno who or how it got started and came to be the standard nomenclature. Kinda reminds me about how to cut crown ...upside down and backwards, another mind bender. ... probably has more to do with physics than anything. No matter, I think we've covered it pretty well in this thread. but, who knows someone may have the answer.


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## Al B Thayer

TimPa said:


> nice job al. how did you hold the workpiece in place? the hand would obviously been dangerously close to the blade, and the piece wants to be pulled back. thus, the crux of this thread. difficult to clamp, zero clearance fence would help safety some.
> 
> i think that we all agree that a desired cut less than the miter saw is capable of is asking more than the saw was safely designed to perform. another cut method should be considered. table saw and sled is what i use.


It really was a pretty easy cut to make. I really didn't put the time into producing the cuts. Had it been for an actual project I might have put a little more into it. Been woodworking since 1964 and have never had an injury or cut from doing my work. 
I just don't let the blade scare me. No reason for the piece to move and not having to push the wood makes it safe enough for me. Maybe a zero clearance fence might help if I were doing lots of these cuts. But then I'd be on the table saw with a fixture.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer

FrankC said:


> To make a 60 degree cut start by cutting board at 45 degrees, set saw to 15 degrees, lay cut edge against fence and clamp in position. Make cut.


I'll have to try that tonight.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## WillemJM

FrankC said:


> To make a 60 degree cut start by cutting board at 45 degrees, set saw to 15 degrees, lay cut edge against fence and clamp in position. Make cut.


LOL, that means a 30 degree cut on the piece and cutting 60 degrees off.

Why not clamp it perpendicular using a square, turn the saw through 30 degrees, you end up with the same 30 degree angle on the stick, cutting off 60 degrees? Only one cut.


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## FrankC

WillemJM said:


> LOL, that means a 30 degree cut on the piece and cutting 60 degrees off.
> 
> Why not clamp it perpendicular using a square, turn the saw through 30 degrees, you end up with the same 30 degree angle on the stick, cutting off 60 degrees? Only one cut.


Here we go round 2 :laughing:


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## mdntrdr

....:smile:


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## woodnthings

*it keeps on coming back to life*


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## WillemJM




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## woodnthings

*I'm dog tired ...*

You buyin' ? :blink:


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