# Laundry Detergent???



## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

So, I was watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4rppsnoo3E

At around 14:20, he gets a bucket and puts a mixture of 1 part laundry detergent and 4 parts water to soak his rough turned ash bowl for 4 days.  I have heard of alcohol drying, but I have never heard of the laundry detergent. Sadly the low sound when he is speaking and his accent make it next to impossible to understand what he is saying about it. Perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge of such things could chime in?

Oh, the second half can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZzTbXsVmUI

The second video has much better audio.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Well, all those laundry commercials claim that their product will make clothes look brighter than new. Maybe he thought that it would help that ugly looking thing.

My suggestion is that he bury it in the back yard and hope that it doesn't claw its way to the surface.

BTW, he is using dish detergent and not laundry detergent. Still a waste of time.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Well, the audio quality and the accent made it nearly impossible to understand him but it was interesting enough to catch my attention. Thanks for the thoughts.


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## Improv (Aug 13, 2008)

If the wood is 'oily' then he may be soaking it to remove those oils so the finish will take better. Nothing about laundry or dish soap strike me as doing anything to the wood itself. Lye, yes, as there was always residual caustic from its preperation, but not modern soaps.

Regards,
Steve


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

My guess is that he's not trying to hasten the drying of the rough turned bowl, but rather to slow the release of moisture after turning the green wood to avoid cracks or distortion. Dishwashing detergents contain surfactants which might help the water get in to the pores and glycols which might remain in the pores to stabilize it (maybe).


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

About a decade ago there was a brief fad to soak freshly cut green wood turnings in polyethylene glycol 1000 for a week or so to stabilize the wood. It did stabilize the wood, but it also made the grain look murky, darkened the wood, made it feel sticky or greasy, prevented the wood from taking a finish, and was expensive. Other than that, it was great stuff.

Because dishwashing detergent seems to have some similar characteristics at lower cost, a few amongst us who are perpetually searching for the Holy Grail of stabilizing green wood latched onto a mixture of detergent and water. They generally soak the wood for a week or two and then let it slowly dry out. It does not speed up drying. If anything, it retards drying. However, it probably does stabilize the wood a bit along with creating a host of undesirable consequences.

I'm thinking that charcoal lighter and a match would be a good way to speed up drying for that turning.


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## Ron Rutter (Jan 18, 2011)

Aw Bill. It is just a canoe for little people!


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Ron Rutter said:


> Aw Bill. It is just a canoe for little people!


Silly me for not seeing that. :laughing:


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

I missed the canoe shape, too! LOL.


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## Chuku (Jan 31, 2016)

Quickstep said:


> My guess is that he's not trying to hasten the drying of the rough turned bowl, but rather to slow the release of moisture after turning the green wood to avoid cracks or distortion. Dishwashing detergents contain surfactants which might help the water get in to the pores and glycols which might remain in the pores to stabilize it (maybe).



This is from ron kents website. Its a quote from techniques. Bottom line is deterrgent stops tyhe cracking .
:-
went to Costco and purchased four half gallon containers of the magic elixir along with a sturdy plastic storage bin of sufficient size to hold the mixture and some bowl blanks. Upon arrival at home, I emptied the detergent into the container and added an equal amount of water. From then on, I would take primarily green wood and rough turn in one day, soak overnight, and finish the next day. Sometimes I didn't finish it on the second day and left it mounted on the lathe overnight and sometimes for a several days. Surprise! They didn't crack! I have since taken green wood, rough turned it, soaked it about four hours and then finish turned it and finished it in one day. In the six to eight months I have been using this technique, I haven't had one bowl crack. A few had a bit of movement, but it was very slight. I have used the following woods: black walnut, vine maple, maple, oak (kiln dried), yew, honey locust, fruiting cherry, birch, plum, apple. I have not tried madrona as I refuse to cut down the only one I have growing on my property.
Needless to say, I was ecstatic and proceeded to share my "discovery" with any and all turners I knew (two) and also spread the word on rec.crafts.woodturning (a regular not-so-little Johnny Appleseed I was!). A few turners were lured into trying it. Unfortunately, some people can't follow directions and tried variations on the simple recipe which resulted in cracking. A few did it correctly and were rewarded with success.
There has been some speculation as to the mechanism behind the process, but no real scientific investigation has been done. Lyn Mangiameli, John Nicklin and I have come up with the following theory which John set to words
'The soap solution sets up an osmotic gradient. Pure water in the wood is in more abundance than water in the soap solution, so it (the water) tries to migrate to balance the osmotic pressure. This would cause the specific gravity of the soap solution to decrease (although possibly not noticeably.) On the other hand, the concentration of soapy stuff is higher outside the wood than in, so it tries to migrate into the wood. If it is successful in
migrating into the cells, the soapy solids will get trapped as the wood dries, preventing the cells from collapsing as they do when wood dries naturally (or unnaturally for that matter.)
As you point out, the soap solution is slicker than a Teflon banana peel This may help the migration of soapy solids into the cells."
An attempt was made by Lyn to conduct a survey to gather details for a study on the detergent/soap technique. Unfortunately, he received only 11 responses from turners, so feels that no meaningful statement can be made as to the efficacy of the process.
The only slight drawback to the detergent solution is that the wood should be drained for a few minutes or longer and wiped with a towel while mounting it to the headstock. A plastic sheet should be placed over the ways and eye protection should be worn. Try it! Your hands will be smoother, cleaner and less subject to cracking as well as your turnings.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Soap is a suffricant, it breaks the surface tension of water. Surface tension is what makes water bead up, or not. Anyway, it effect, it makes water wetter so it can soak in better.

We used it in conjunction with High Voltage Holiday Testing of Protective Coatings (Paint) on a steel substrate, may it be plate, pipe or whatever. 
We would put a lot of soapy water on the painted surface. Then ground one of the test leads and put the other on the soapy painted surface. If there were any mineature cracks or minute pin holes in the paint, the tester would beep. The soapy water would seep into places that pure water would not. This made contact with the steel under the paint electrically conductive and thus the beep. We called it a jeep.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Tony B said:


> Soap is a suffricant, it breaks the surface tension of water. Surface tension is what makes water bead up, or not. Anyway, it effect, it makes water wetter so it can soak in better.
> 
> We used it in conjunction with High Voltage Holiday Testing of Protective Coatings (Paint) on a steel substrate, may it be plate, pipe or whatever.
> We would put a lot of soapy water on the painted surface. Then ground one of the test leads and put the other on the soapy painted surface. If there were any mineature cracks or minute pin holes in the paint, the tester would beep. The soapy water would seep into places that pure water would not. This made contact with the steel under the paint electrically conductive and thus the beep. We called it a jeep.


So, to summarize, you washed your jeep? :icon_smile:


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Bill Boehme said:


> So, to summarize, you washed your jeep? :icon_smile:


And with my Spanish accent, jes!


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## saculnhoj (May 18, 2015)

I've read all those claims. Just too messy and too much hassle. Just put the bowl up and let it dry and get on turning more bowls. If you do that on a regular basis you will always have a dry bowl sitting on the shelf. Turn a green one, put it up, pull a dry one down off the shelf and turn it. No mess no fuss, no nasty chemicals to store.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I always loved turning green. Way bak when I stsrted turning around 1985, I tried everything from microwaving to puutting the bowl in a baggie with the wet shavings. 
The best thing, at least for me was to just turn the bowl from start to finish. The thinner the walls, the less chance of cracking. As for the base, if the bowl is properly oriented from the beginning. it shouldn't crack. It might become somewhat oval and uneven on the bottom, but not crack. Then when dry, sand the bottom flat (actually with a slight indentation) again.


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