# Does your local schools still have wood shop class?



## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Our local schools did away with wood shop several years ago. This, in my opinion, is one of the biggest mistakes they have made. I learned all my shop safety and was introduced to the different tools in wood shop. It was available for me to take two years.

Did other school districts take it away or does your district still have wood shop in school?

Mark


----------



## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Just thank the lawyers. It's now too cost prohibitive to buy the insurance to run a wood shop program.

The community college system is dealing with adults and have the ability to force students into signing documents that they understand the dangers.

(BTW - I have seen a student thrown out of a WW class for her own safety.)


----------



## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Our school has an excellent woodshop. Cad drawing tools and great teachers. They also have a plasma cutter & paint booth. As a School Board member I strongly support all aspects of education. Shop class crosses lines into math & english as well. 
jim


----------



## Covenant Creations (Mar 28, 2010)

Ours does as well. It is pretty nice, they just bought a saw stop a few years ago and usually about once a year someone sets it off.


----------



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Our local school does. But most of the tools are "unsafe" to use and locked down for insurance reasons. (I would not mind having most of that old iron) They still teach drafting and design, but not many big projects are built simply for the lack of tools to use. And the teacher is/never was a woodworker :huh:


----------



## Rick C. (Dec 17, 2008)

Daren;132551 And the teacher is/never was a woodworker :huh:[/quote said:


> This sounds like the blind leading the blind.
> Our school has a good shop and teacher, at least my kids and their friends think so.


----------



## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Ours does not and hasn't for years. I remember when I went to H.S. (1969-1973), we had Auto Shop, Print Shop, Drafting, Metal Shop, Woodshop and a class called Aircraft Construction which I took. We built and flew a plywood and fabric mono wing, open cockpit contraption called a Volksplane. The engine was a VW engine modified by our Auto Shop. Today there's none of that. Jim, I salute you for keeping industrial arts alive in your school system.


----------



## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

I had Wood Shop in Jr. High School back in '98 and '99. When I went to highschool, the shop teacher started teaching highschool gymnastics. You could tell he didn't know anything about PE. He let the other gym teacher do most of everything. Needless to say, the shop program got scrapped. 


Our shop program wasn't all that great. 9 week course. We mostly watched videos, spent two weeks drawing a slanting book shelf. Another two weeks laying it out on the wood. 1 day out of the whole semester did we actually use tools. The rest of the time we watched videos and sanded the slanting book shelf.


----------



## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Colt W. Knight said:


> I had Wood Shop in Jr. High School back in '98 and '99. When I went to highschool, the shop teacher started teaching highschool gymnastics. You could tell he didn't know anything about PE. He let the other gym teacher do most of everything. Needless to say, the shop program got scrapped.
> 
> 
> Our shop program wasn't all that great. 9 week course. We mostly watched videos, spent two weeks drawing a slanting book shelf. Another two weeks laying it out on the wood. 1 day out of the whole semester did we actually use tools. The rest of the time we watched videos and sanded the slanting book shelf.


If you went to school in Kanawha County, then we went to the same county school system. I had two full years of shop in the mid to late 80's. That means that it dropped to just 9 weeks by the end of the 90's and then was totally scrapped.

Mark


----------



## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Like John above, when I went to school (grad '74), we had printing, drafting, metals, machine, woodworking, auto mechanics, auto body, and probably one I am forgetting. We actually had some shops in junior high in 7-9th grades. In 10th grade, you got to spend 6 weeks in each shop. In my junior and senior years I was able to take a year of machine shop, metal shop, two years of printing, and still have time for all the regular classes. In our senior year of printing, we did all the production work for whatever the school and teachers needed. I still have my brass hammer with a stainless steel handle I made in machine shop. Shortly after I graduated, most of the schools in northeast Ohio got rid of the shops. Now the kids have to go to regional vocation schools for anything shop related. 
Mike Hawkins


----------



## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

most of the HS in my area still have wood shops. the particular HS i went to (Kewaskum) had enough different classes that you could take a new one each semester for the duration of your HS years. The teacher i had died a year or two after i graduated and was replaced by one of his former students. The school did drop all of it's auto programs but kept all of the wood and metal class'. The interest in those two subjects has remained strong in all the school districts in our area. The only problem is that shop class' are the most expensive electives a student can take. They make you pay a $20-30 fee for shop maintenance and then you have to buy your own supplies.


----------



## nblumert (Oct 15, 2008)

I took cabinetmaking for all 4 years in High school. I graduated in 2003, and the teacher stayed until 2004 before retiring. They brought another teacher in, and basically stopped the cabinetmaking program beacuse he didn't know what was going on. The teacher I had was actually a wood worker. I still keep in touch with him, and love to see the things that come out of his shop. 
It is a real shame that the schools do away with the program. I always said that I learned more in that class than any other class. I can actually use the things I learned in that class to do something usefull. 
Nick


----------



## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

mwhals said:


> If you went to school in Kanawha County, then we went to the same county school system. I had two full years of shop in the mid to late 80's. That means that it dropped to just 9 weeks by the end of the 90's and then was totally scrapped.
> 
> Mark


 
South Charleston Jr. High School, and South Charleston High School. 

My highschool didn't offer shop class. I did take photography/pottery though. 


I was exposed to woodworking because my grandpa was an avid wood worker and my dad use to be. However, just about everything I learned was the hard way by screwing up lumber till I got it right. I would have loved to have had a real wood shop program at school.


----------



## Av8rTx (Mar 10, 2009)

I took drafting, metal and woodworking and "power mechanics" (means rebuilding a B&S lawnmower engine). My old school system dropped all these in addition to automechanics and paint and body work. The theory was everyone would be college bound and business oriented. Now I work with allot of students in the alternative school and drop outs who would thrive in these environments if they had a chance-sad really.


----------



## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

A local HS just auctioned off its' wood shop, and I never heard about it until I saw it in the local CL ads. They don't test shop in a standardized test, and when your school is rated by the state on those results those classes just get the axe for more that are on the test.


----------



## Chad (May 10, 2009)

We had Industrial arts, The last half of the year we could do some bigger projects such as a gun rack or a book shelf. That was in 95 when I graduated. My oldests (15) school has woodshop and beginning carprentry, drafting and design, then he has to go to the vocational school for anything further. My shop teacher was tuff on safety, he would say see what happens when you get careless and show us the eight fingers he still had.


----------



## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Colt W. Knight said:


> South Charleston Jr. High School, and South Charleston High School.
> 
> My highschool didn't offer shop class. I did take photography/pottery though.
> 
> ...


I went to Dunbar Junior high where we had shop class and Dunbar High School where I had a shop class. You might be too young to remember Dunbar High School, LOL. It was closed and consolidated with South Charleston High School. Mr. Robinson was my shop teacher in case you ended up having him sometime after Dunbar High School closed.

Mark


----------



## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Av8rTx said:


> The theory was everyone would be college bound and business oriented.


That is the downfall of education in this country in my opinion. Not everyone is geared toward college. There are many people that are great with their hands, but not college material. Those type of people are the ones we need as plant operators, auto mechanics, carpenters, etc.

We are basically leaving the non college material kids out to hang. So much for "No Child Left Behind."

Mark


----------



## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

mwhals said:


> That is the downfall of education in this country in my opinion. Not everyone is geared toward college. There are many people that are great with their hands, but not college material. Those type of people are the ones we need as plant operators, auto mechanics, carpenters, etc.
> 
> We are basically leaving the non college material kids out to hang. So much for "No Child Left Behind."
> 
> Mark


You are 101% correct!! And that's why we don't make sh!t in this country anymore. We have become a bunch of service oriented geeks after giving away our manufacturing capabilities to foreign countries.


----------



## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

I was hesitant to respond to this one because I lived this topic for so long. I taught Technology Education/Industrial Arts/Shop for 36 years. In the last part of my career I was the curriculum coordinator for my district; a large suburban PA school system with 13 schools and about 10,000 students.

When I started teaching high school in 1972, we had a huge Industrial Arts (IA) program. At that time the high school housed over 3000 students and had a metal shop, two wood shops, two drafting rooms, two power mechanics (engines) shops, an electric shop and a print shop. As the years went by the student population went down but the enrollment of IA dropped even more. Parents and students were pursuing more academic electives with college in mind.

In the 80's and 90's Industrial Arts made the national transition to Technology Education. Some districts were in the forefront of this and many lagged behind. More technology and computers were injected into the curriculum. Wood and metal was combined into Manufacturing and Construction technology, print shop and drafting was changed to Communication Technology and electronics and power/energy/engines morphed into Power Technology.

Many districts had slight variations on these themes and many just did their own thing. That is the direction things have taken, though, and without the change to technology, I really don't think traditional wood, metal, print and electric shops would have survived, at least not in my area. School boards and administrators tired of traditional 'shop'.

On top of this turmoil, school boards are always looking for ways to cut costs and many board members are not as enlightened as our friend Jim Douglas. In my district there were/are several members who were ruthless about destroying the program. In some surrounding districts they succeeded by crippling the programs down to the point where they would just barely meet state standards.

The 'Why" was simply costs. When a district sets up a standard classroom, it is nowhere nearly as expensive as setting up a 'shop' or what we would currently call a Tech Ed Lab. They dont have to pay for a Powermatic planer, remote power shut-offs all around the room, a dust collection system, an expensive table saw, etc. Nor does the district have to pay for the considerable annual cost of shop supplies.

When I was first put in charge of the program the high school was down to six teachers and five labs - wood, drafting, electronics, graphic arts and power tech. They had just lowered the yearly supply/equipment budget to about $15,000 total and shortly afterward arbitrarily cut that to $13k. To replace broken/worn equipment, buy wood, project parts, software (we had a full CAD lab, graphics lab and other computers) etc., was really tough with that amount of money.

Compounding the problem was that we have a regional vocational school. Some school board members could not be convinced that the Tech Ed program was not being duplicated by the vocational school, no matter how often we would explain the differences in purposes, facilities and curriculum. Basically, the vocational school was for job training and we were building skills for students in general education to give them a chance to learn about processes, tools, etc.

The middle school program was a different story. In PA, a middle school Tech Ed program is mandatory. What the state doesn't spell out is how extensive it should be. At our district, all the kids in grades 6-8 get Tech Ed for every other day for half the year. This is more than the kids get in many districts. From grades 9 and up, Tech Ed is an elective course. That parents want to steer their kids toward academic subjects, whether they are college material or not, really hurt enrollment. 

Also, No Child Left Behind (NCLB) with it's stress on math and writing/reading skills above all else, has lead schools to cut their focus on other areas, really hurting Tech Ed/ shop classes (along with art, home economics, etc.). Ironically, The Tech Ed classes include a lot of math, critical thinking skills and problem solving - all of which help students with the standardized tests.

I'm going on and on. For those interested, here's a link to the ITEEA's (International Technology and Engineering Educator's Association) program guide: http://www.iteea.org/TAA/PDFs/Execsum.pdf You can see for yourself the direction 'shop' is heading in. As you can tell by the name of the organization, engineering is being injected into the curriculum. It was until recently known as ITEA (International Technology Education Association) and once was the Industrial Arts Association.

I agree that it is a gross injustice not to give school students an experience using tools and learning to use them safely. Some kids get out of some schools not knowing what a screwdriver is, while having calculus knowledge they may never use. 

Oddly, one thing I never heard administrators or school board members complain about was the cost of insurance. I suppose the 'shops' weren't itemized but were part of a blanket district insurance policy. Also, we had a pretty good student safety record.

As advice: Please don't hesitate to let your local school board members know that you support your school's Tech Ed program (or whatever your district might call it - there are variations). They constantly get hammered on cutting taxes and the 'shops' are a tempting target to cut. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Bill


----------



## gibby89 (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm actually a freshman in HS we have wood, metal, auto and Agriculture mechanics. Ag mech is wood, metal and others combined into one class it is also a Compition team open to FFA members. Our Ag department including Ag mech sends lots of kids to Cal Poly (ag collage) trade school it UC's this is in California our school has no intention of stopping the shop classes


----------



## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

I really am unaware of what our local HS has, since my son has long since graduated.

I did want to comment about this though.
There is a percentage (and a high one) of kids that really are not college material. Not due to grades but their individual aptitudes and attitudes. Many are just plain hands on and no good at books.
These kids are left coming out of HS scrambling to find work, and then think college is their ticket. College is totally a false sense of security for many.
There needs to be skills available for them to learn that they can drag into the real world and into employment. There are openings for jobs for hands on folks that are not able to be taken since no one is trained for them. 
Not only that, but many are very good paying positions and it would make little sense to go to college and financially drain themselves when in reality a good set of hands on skills will actually pay better over their lifetimes.
College costs have skyrocketed to to point of insanity and it takes many a solid decade of working to pay the costs down, not including the 4 to 8 years spent without work (or minimal work) while attending college.
So when it all is added together, the line of lifelong pay between skilled and college educated individuals is now starting to lean towards the skilled worker.
I'm an architect and a skilled carpenter makes better money than I ever could and I own my own architectural co. (I also was a building contractor for many years.)
Also, many are able to start their own businesses and run solo. College for them, overall is useless except a few side courses in things like basic accounting or small business accounting (which also should be taught in HS but is slack).

Some adults can't even change a car tire these days...even the guys. Others are all over a car, hopping their ride up to 2X the hp and doing fantastic body and paint. Same with wood projects.

I was part of a group of contractors who took kids from the HS and hired them, graded them for the school and yes they were paid a wage as well. A fabulous opportunity to get a skill and walk out of HS with hands on and job experiences, plus a reference from the contractor as they move on.
The one kid I did that with, is now a college grad, and was my best employee. He still to this day (10 years later) calls me, and thanks me for the experience and has restored his own home.

It would be a big plus if other HS's took on this kind of program. Liability is like anything else. Workmans Comp and liability insurances.


----------



## UKfan (Nov 16, 2010)

I have bought my 70s model Delta Lathe and Powermatic drill press from an auction where the local Highschool was shutting down its industrial arts program. With that said, the instructor who was responsible for selling all the tools and machines was incredibly sad to see it all go. He and I spoke at length about how things have changed in the past two decades and his comments reflected alot of what I have read here.

On a different note my father taught industrial arts at a rural highschool in eastern Kentucky in the late 70s and would frequently tell me stories about how hard it was to keep the program running. He taught himself how to fix and repair the machines, he made furniture on weekends to trade for materials and supplies since the school system didn't have the money, and he would cut lumber and cure and store it for the kids that couldn't afford even a few board feet for class projects. Shortly after he left that school the program went under and never recovered. 

He told me he had one promising student that was very talented that would bring in what looked like old barn wood for his projects. Dad would help him plane/joint the wood to get it ready outside of class, and this went on for a bit until the kids dad showed up and was angry that his son had been taking apart the back side of his barn for the lumber. Dad went and help fix the barn and used some of his personal lumber collection.


----------



## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm a retired vocational instructor. Many of the local schools closed or altered the Industrial arts programs which many former students would have called, "shop" classes. In order to become an Industrial Arts teacher in my state, you go to college and get a teaching degree, then start teaching. To become a vocational instructor, you have to come from the trade you are going to teach. There are minimum requirements which usually mean 5 years continuous work as a journeyman. Many also have college degrees but to maintain your teaching certificate you have to take specific college courses amounting to a specified number of credit hours. These courses relate to the teaching profession, such ones as curriculum development, teaching students with special needs, responsibilities for student safety and so on. Many academic teachers don't have this training.

In many states, but not all, there are technical high schools. They may be all inclusive schools where a student gets both standard academic classes along with the technical classes in one location. Others, like my state, have regional voc centers. Students bus to the tech school for those classes but take their academic classes at their local school. At one time, the technical classes took a lot of time out of a students schedule which could prevent them from taking all the necessary college prep classes they would need to go to college. Most schools have altered their time and added academic classes in the tech schools so this is no longer a problem. Back in the day, a student would have to choose, tech school with no college or no tech and college prep. This was very limiting to students and their further education possibilities. This has been changed so any student can take technical courses. In fact, most schools have changed their names from "vocational" to "arts and technology" or something similar to break the old prejudice about technical education.

I taught carpentry and cabinetmaking to high school students during the day and cabinet/furniture making to adults in the evening. In my day classes, my school had it's own new house development. We went out on the job site everyday working on a substantial house from foundation to finish. Most technical schools are set up to give students real life, actual on the job workplace experiences. Our culinary arts students ran a restaurant, the childhood development classes ran a day care center. Drafting, electrical, plumbing and masonry students worked on our house project as well as other community projects. Larger tech schools such as some in Massachusetts may run several restaurants and other businesses right at the school, open to the public, run by students.

The vast majority of people have no idea what is available for educational choices or what goes on in modern schools. Things have changed dramatically. In small town Maine which used to be a mono culture now faces a student population that speaks over 100 different languages. We constantly hear statements like the ones that have been expressed in this thread. Who would you want teaching your kid, a professional with extensive training, special classes, OSHA compliant, teaching real world tools and techniques or somebody that has no specialized training or actual job experience. It's not just about liability issues, it's about the competence of the instructors and compliance issues with the shops and student training.

Teaching is a lot different than what most people might think. Although I'm a longtime working tradesman, I don't just teach what I think should be taught. My state has documents called "dacums". These are drawn up by industry professionals, working carpenters, employers, not suits in an office. The dacums list the various tools and techniques someone working in the trade would need to be competent with. This is the same way OSHA standards are written and many of your states department of labor regulations. The word, "competency" is a very important distinction. My students didn't use a miter saw a few times to build a bird house. They have been thoroughly trained with everything about the saw and they have used it everyday out on a job site doing every phase of constructing a house. Students graduating from my class have built a minimum of two complete houses as well as having done dozens of other carpentry projects around the schools and community. They don't have minor experience with the tools, they are competent with them.

In addition to the state dacum that lists all the skills a student needs to gain employment in the trade, I'm was required to have an advisory committee. This also consisted of industry professionals, suppliers, working carpenters, code enforcement officers, as well as students and parents that kept me advised of new materials, techniques and any other concerns that could be important in a students training or other needs. 

Next week technical students from across America are gathering in Kansas City for the Skills USA conference. There will be some 15,000 students competing head to head, the top students from their respective states. Over 300,000 educators, students, parents and industry pros will be involved. If you want to see what's going on in education check this program out. The Kansas City convention center is roughly 6 football fields. There will be students competing in over 100 trade areas. There will be backhoes in the building and jet engines that student mechanics will trouble shoot and repair, there will be 40 or 50 carpenters, the same with bakers, EMTs, electricians and all the necessary equipment and tools to perform their tasks. The actual trade competitions are only one part of this conference. These students will also be active in their schools student organizations, government and public service. This is where your "shop" classes have gone.
http://www.skillsusa.org/educators/skillsusaweek.shtml


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*man, that's a great explanation, thanks*

I have a friend who teaches Graphic Design who will be at the skills competition. It's a fantastic way to compare the student's abilities in a real world situation...not some guy in a suit. :thumbdown: :laughing:

Sounds like you also do a great job in your field. :thumbsup: Your posts are always well though out and informative. I also "taught" but not trained, students at the sophomore college level in Design. It was fun, but challenging with some young men and ladies some of who had never even turned on a machine.


----------



## Bait (Dec 20, 2012)

My local HS still runs a wood shop class, metal shop and a CAD class in our South wing of the school. Last year they stepped up to a Saw Stop table saw and some other new equipment. Had one kid this year trip the Saw Stop, so I guess it has already paid for itself in my opinion. He can still do this with his thumb :thumbsup:

I coach the High Schools FTC Robotics Team as a non school employee, unless you want to count my coach's stipen as an employee. The robotics team get to use the wood shop for our practices building the robot. Lots of cutting and fabbing of parts building the robot, along with the code writing to make the bot function. We needed a custom sized pulley this week, a piece of maple and a wood lathe solved the issue in short order. 

It isnt the biggest wood shop, 7 lathes (3 full size, 4 Jet minis), 2 planers, 2 table saws, 3 drill presses, chop saw, 2 band saws, an oribital spindle sander, and belt sander. A handful of misc hand tools. 3 typical shop tables with vices built in.

With only about 25% of the kids aquiring college education, the area being mostly a small farming community in the Willamette Valley. The skills these kids get out of the vocational classes serve them well right out of school when they go to work. More kids will use the shop class skills they learned in life, than some of the other required stuff they have to learn. :blink: 

I am on the school district budget committee I have never heard plans to cut the shop classes and I dont think they will ever convince me it is a good idea should it come up. I vote for sawdust, and lots of it. :yes:


----------

