# Refinishing old table - stain absorption/sanding question



## mj1722v (Nov 20, 2012)

Hi,
I am currently trying to refinish an old table. The piece of furniture is a corner shaped coffee table designed to be used with an 'L' shaped couch. I am not sure what type of wood it is, but it had a very light finish and I wanted to make it darker. I used a stripping agent and then sanded the wood down with 60, 100, 150, 180, & 220 grit paper. I used a pre-stain wood conditioner and began staining using Rustoleum wood stain (color is called Kona). The finish came out beautifully on the legs, feet, middle, and bottom sections. However, the actual table top came out very blotchy in some areas. I was very disappointed with this outcome and decided to redo the top yet again. I allowed the stain on the table top to dry then removed it using the same method described earlier. I am wondering if I sanded the top too finely, as there are areas that appear "glassy" (it looks as if the grain has actually been sanded off the surface) and there are other spots where the wood grain is clearly visible. The spots that appeared 'glassy' did not seem to absorb the stain on my first attempt. I am very hesitant to try to restain it again without feedback, as I fear similar blotchy results. Any ideas as to how I can solve this issue or fix the top so that the wood absorbs the stain evenly? And if I did sand it too fine what are the options? Thanks in advance, I appreciate any help/advice you can offer me.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The blotchiness is normally caused by the lack of wood conditioner. Since you used a wood conditioner, did you let it dry according to the directions. Also if it was applied in colder weather than the directions called for it may take a great deal longer to dry than listed. Sometimes it is also necessary to use a second coat of wood conditioner. The wood conditioner seals the soft part of the wood so the density of the surface is more uniform and stains evenly. 

When you say there are some glassy spots I'm wondering if you wiped the excess stain off after applying it. If not you need to wash the table down with lacquer thinner otherwise the stain can interfere with the adhesion of the topcoat. I'm also wondering if perhaps the table top is veneered and you sanded through it. Without pictures I'm just guessing. 

Sanding the wood to 220 or finer is good however the finer you sand wood the harder it is to stain dark with just oil stain. What you can do prior to staining with oil is stain the table with a aniline dye or transtint dye to get the majority of the color. Then stain it with the oil stain to give it some warmth. You can also use a dye stain over wood that has had oil stain applied or use it for shading.


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## mj1722v (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks for the reply Steve. The wood conditioner was applied indoors at room temperature and according to the directions on the label. The excess stain was also wiped away after application. As far as it being veneered, that I'm not sure about. I uploaded a picture to the "my photos" link under my user name, if you could take a look at it I'd appreciate it. As you'll notice, on the right the wood grain is visible and to the left it fades or it isn't noticable. The area on the left has a very smooth, glass like texture. Any thoughts? Thanks again for your help/input


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Wood condition is similar to a finish. In fact some people just take the finish they normally use and just water it down. Another guy I know just uses the stain itself and waters it down. The conditioner just seals the soft parts of the wood so the stain doesn't soak too much of it up making dark spots. You though have the opposite problem. You have a spot that may has too much conditioner and is sealed so much the stain won't take. I think this is what you are seeing as the glass like look. It is an emulsion of the wood conditioner. I really think if you did the top over the chances you would have the same problem are small. How did you apply the conditioner? It kind of needs to be applied quickly so one area doesn't get more than another. I normally wear exam gloves and mop it on with a rag. After you applied the wood conditioner and let it dry, did you scuff sand it before you applied the stain? With most wood conditioners this is recommended. This breaks up the surface coating so the stain can get in. 

I really doubt if it is veneered, white pine veneer is more expensive than walnut.


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## mj1722v (Nov 20, 2012)

I applied the conditioner pretty quickly using a rag then let it sit about 10-15 minutes, then wiped away any excess conditioner, as the can directed. The directions stated to stain the wood within 2 hours of applying the conditioner. I applied the stain about 1.5 hours after putting the conditioner on. I did not scuff sand it prior to staining however. What would be a good grit paper to do this with? And since the stain doesn't seem to be taking to these "glassy" spots on the wood, what steps would you reccommend I take to correct this? Also prior to attempting to restain the piece, should I use the conditioner again or is there a way to remove the glassy areas and return to a state where the grain is visible throughout the piece?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I would use 220 paper to sand the wood conditioner. As far as the glassy spots it may be just enough to sand the top again with 180 grit paper with a orbital sander and then 220 paper again. I believe I would try staining the table again without additional wood conditioner. The color you are using is light enough blotching shouldn't be too much of an issue. You might be prepared to wash the table down with lacquer thinner if it gets too dark with the second staining.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

There still is the possibility that you sanded through a veneer. Starting off with 60x and 100x are too coarse, and can quickly perforate veneer if that's what it is. Your description sounds like it. If you can try to determine if it is. If there is an edge to the top see if it looks like a thin wood layer. If there is a leaf, look at the inside edge. Look under the table to see if the grain looks like the top, or see if it looks like MDF or particleboard.


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## mj1722v (Nov 20, 2012)

The wood grain on the top does not seem to match what is underneath it, and the under side does seem to look like some other wood type (maybe MDF or particle board). The top has several knots, none of which are visible underneath (the top is about 1" thick). Also while it isn't as noticable on the top 'shelf' piece, the bottom does seem to have a thin layer of wood sitting over it (maybe 1/16" thick or so). I will also say that the more I sanded, the more of those "glassy" smooth looking areas seemed to appear. If it was a veneer that was sanded through then what are the options at this point? The rest of the project has turned out great, and I'd hate to have to give up on it now.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

mj1722v said:


> The wood grain on the top does not seem to match what is underneath it, and the under side does seem to look like some other wood type (maybe MDF or particle board). The top has several knots, none of which are visible underneath (the top is about 1" thick). Also while it isn't as noticable on the top 'shelf' piece, the bottom does seem to have a thin layer of wood sitting over it (maybe 1/16" thick or so). I will also say that the more I sanded, the more of those "glassy" smooth looking areas seemed to appear. If it was a veneer that was sanded through then what are the options at this point? The rest of the project has turned out great, and I'd hate to have to give up on it now.


Since the knot doesn't show through to the bottom it sounds like it's veneered. I saved your picture to my computer and enlarged it. I can't see any indication that you sanded through a veneer layer. If it had a MDF core under it would show a brown spot. All I can see in the picture is that the stain didn't take in the glassy spot. 

At this point you might consider taking the table to a professional refinisher. Without being there I can only see so much with a picture. In the event you really do sand through the veneer it would involve either making a new top or re-veneering the top you have. There is always the posibility the light spot is caused by the glue that is holding the veneer on and you are about to go through it. If you choose to continue I think you have two options, you could carefully sand the top of the table and stain it again hoping it is the conditioner and you cut enough of it that it stains correctly. The other is using a aniline dye and airbrushing the light spot. This is very difficult to do on something like a table top which is so visible. 

If you decide to try the aniline dye you might go to this website and pick out the color that is closest to the tone of the table. The colors can be mixed with each other and thinned lighter than what is shown. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=130 From what I can see in the picture if it is a accurate representation I would probably pick Stian Canary Yellow. The dyes are in powder form and can be mixed with alcohol.


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