# Ordered the Baileigh 10" Hybrid TS.



## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

This model has a digital fence readout, and the 36" right of blade capacity stood out among many other hybrid saws I looked at. *I don't have a ship notice yet*, but will keep this thread updated. This is the one I ordered:
http://wood.baileighindustrial.com/hybrid-table-saw-ts-1044h

4D


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

The saw looks nice, but be aware of the digital rule.

I bought the Wixey digital fence for my table saw. It is accurate - only if you work in decimal inches or metric.

If you want to work in imperial fractions, it will not be as accurate since a "range" of decimal measurements equates to the same fraction. It is not the tool, just the nature of converting decimal to fractions.

I could move my fence to either side of a line on my the fence tape measure and it was the same readout on the Wixey. I expect the digital rule on this saw will act the same.

My Wixey is still installed on the saw, but it gathers dust.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Looks like a nice saw....I've gotten used to working in decimals...so I love the digital readout I have on my planer. But I could see the problem Dave is talking about if you work in fractions.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Since we added both a big (Multicam) and small (CNC Shark) to our furniture design shops where I teach my brain has been working in decimal fractions. We also have a Wixey angle gauge and depth gauge that get used every (school) day, so the students are familiar with the pros and cons of the tech. Thanks for mentioning your concerns. I'll post what I find out about it here.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I don't know of anyone else who has this saw, so definitely keep us posted on it's performance, and the whole experience with Baleigh.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

knotscott said:


> I don't know of anyone else who has this saw, ...


The lack of reviews was one of my concerns, but with the SawStop models out of my price range, and no saws I was interested in sold locally, I simply am taking a chance that this saw will meet up to my expectations. I've been using a 40 year old inherited 8" Craftsman saw that still runs fine, but is limited in capability. Any 10" saw will be an upgrade. No 220 in my shop nor any easy way to add it, so the 110v hybrids out there caught my attention, and this saw looks as good as any from the posted specs.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The key to good performance from any of them is setup and good blade selection. Good luck.


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

Post pics when you get it set up as it sure looks nice. What made you select it over other hybrids like the Grizzly, etc.?


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

rbk123 said:


> Post pics when you get it set up as it sure looks nice. What made you select it over other hybrids like the Grizzly, etc.?


I didn't mind Grizzly's Hybrid, but as far as I could find they only sold it prewired for 220v. SawStop's hybrid caught my attention, but was out of my price range. SteelCity had one with a granite top I liked in theory but after seeing a Craftsman (made by SteelCity) with an unmatched granite sections top at my local Sears (with only 30" right of the blade) and their unwillingness to sell me a 36" version I went back to Baileigh. I like the idea of the digital gauge. Only time will tell if I like the reality of it. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

So far I'm getting a little impatient with Baileigh. The day I ordered the saw I received two emails. One to confirm my purchase, and the other a cryptic but encouraging "has been processing" notice. Frankly I expected a ship notice yesterday but heard nothing from Baileigh. The web page mentioned the saw was made in Taiwan, but I assumed they would have a few in the states to fill orders with. An email inquiry to them has not yet been answered. 

4D


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> Looks like a nice saw....I've gotten used to working in decimals...so I love the digital readout I have on my planer. But I could see the problem Dave is talking about if you work in fractions.


Do you/other people really use those digital readouts or analog tapes on saws to set your fence?

I do not think I would ever trust one. I measure each new setting of the fence at the front and back of the blade.

George


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I use my planer readout every time.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

GeorgeC said:


> Do you/other people really use those digital readouts or analog tapes on saws to set your fence?
> George


I never trust a tape until it has proven itself. I'll set the saw with the tape, but check it at the blade after locking the fence. If those measurements disagree I'll then go about trying to calibrate the fence tape. If it is my saw, and no one else is using it, I'll test the setting once first thing, but if it remained accurate I'll trust it the rest of the day.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Here's what I do*

I make a rip on a piece of plywood, it doesn't matter what width. I then measure that width. I set my cursor on my tape to that dimension. Then it's accurate to that particular blade. My fences are self squaring, a Biesemeyer and a Unifence. I would not have any other type. I occasionally check them to the miter slot, but they are always "on".
I would not enjoy woodworking IF I had to double measure for every cut... Royal PITA. :arabia: :thumbdown:


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## Baileigh Inc (Nov 1, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> So far I'm getting a little impatient with Baileigh. The day I ordered the saw I received two emails. One to confirm my purchase, and the other a cryptic but encouraging "has been processing" notice. Frankly I expected a ship notice yesterday but heard nothing from Baileigh. The web page mentioned the saw was made in Taiwan, but I assumed they would have a few in the states to fill orders with. An email inquiry to them has not yet been answered.
> 
> 4D


 
Just came across this thread. PM sent


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Shane,

Got this message when I tried to reply to your PM: "Baileigh Inc has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

I was called by Aaron, and he has me feeling better about my purchase. 

4D


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## Baileigh Inc (Nov 1, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> Shane,
> 
> Got this message when I tried to reply to your PM: "Baileigh Inc has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."
> 
> ...


 
Sorry about that. I cleared out my messages. Has a few too many


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Another day of waiting impatiently. I still expect them to ship my saw out today, but with noon approaching and my shop in limbo until the new saw is here my stress level climbs with each new hour unknowing. When I'd finally decided to get a new saw there was only one big tool outlet in my state, and they are a 2 hour drive away. I couldn't get them to answer an email about what they might have in stock, so didn't want to make that drive if I was going to end up not finding a saw I wanted. 

As it is now, I'm about ready to make that drive. I could be back here in a little over 4 hours with a new saw in my truck and simply refuse FedEx when the baileigh shows up next week, assuming it does. 

Me just ranting.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

To be fair...it's been 3 days. I don't know that any large item I've ever purchased had the same level of item traceability as I'd like. The couch I ordered...they told me somewhere between 2-8 weeks. The 50k truck, 8-10 weeks....heck, even my planer....I was told it would arrive in 6-14 days.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Your point is valid, Ryan. When I know a product will take 3 weeks to get to me I wait patiently. Yesterday a rep told me he would check on my order and try to make sure it went out then. Their order page has no indication of when things will ship, and when I see that I expect shipment within a day or two. The rep mentioned that 72 hours is their company stated (elsewhere on their site) goal for shipments, and that my complaint will lead to them adding that info on the order pages somewhere. A message to Shane here about "did it ship?" has not been answered, so I'm concluding it didn't go out yesterday. 

They might still put it on a truck this afternoon. If they can't get one out the door until next week then at least they should let me know that.


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

It's a bummer something so straightforward and basic, is so difficult to manage. Retail 101.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*sorry to hear your frustration...*

It would seem after all the Hoopla and promotions, and contests etc. that Baileigh would not want to tarnish that good will with a non-responsive or a lackadaisical shipping policy. I'm glad someone has made the first order from them to find out how they treat the folks at WWT. All the quality in the world in the product won't matter if the product can't be delivered in a reasonabvle time frame ... and that time frame needs to be specified at the time of the order.... by a live person with a name for reference. It may just be the shipping dept, it may be a deeper issue...I donno? Good Luck in any case. 

As a teacher or instructor you may have some influence in making purchases for the school, again I donno, but I would certainly want to create a favorable relationship with you as a potential new customer with that in mind. Just sayin' ... :yes:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> As a teacher or instructor you may have some influence in making purchases for the school, again I donno, but I would certainly want to create a favorable relationship with you as a potential new customer with that in mind. Just sayin' ... :yes:


The University I teach at has already purchased tools from Baileigh. I am not involved beyond telling the higher ups what I'd like to have or we "need" in the shops. Then if funds are available things go out to bid. Baileigh obviously competes well on prices as we now have a few metal working tools from them. Their electromagnetic brake is a favorite of mine. 

I have been able to convince a few companies that the tools students have access to (and that work well) will be the tools they buy or recommend to buy later in their professions. A few graciously donate product (veneer, plastic laminate, hardware) or tools. As the economy ebbs and flows the degree of generosity follows. 

This saw is for my personal shop, but what I personally use is often what I recommend for the college shops.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

For what it is worth, 72 hours since they confirmed my order passed shortly before 11:00am this morning. Still no shipped confirmation via email or any rep that visits this forum. 

4D


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*call them*

I've talked to both Shane and Aaron, very nice guys:



Shane Henderson
Baileigh Industrial
[email protected]
http://wood.baileighindustrial.com 
920-482-3220


AARON CERKAS
Baileigh Industrial
[email protected] 
http://wood.baileighindustrial.com 
920-482-3238


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Holy cow....they have a location 45 minutes from my house....anyone know I they have a showroom in Manitowoc?


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I guess what I didn't know, Ryan, was that YOU were just 45 minute from their showroom.  Would you mind driving down there to see what the backlog is? 

Aarron called me yesterday, and as nice as he was to promise a partial refund on the outrageous (and apparently erroneous) shipping charge he mentioned there were already dozens of crates/tools (he said "hundred") on the dock waiting to be shipped out. Business is good, and his offer to check into my order was not a promise to move it to the head of the line. This could simply be that there weren't enough trucks, or that they don't actually have my model in stock, or that Aaron and Shane feel so sorry for me they are right now on the road with my saw on a trailer to deliver it to me personally first thing in the morning. For all I don't know, each is just as likely as the others. 

And now it is after business hours on a Friday.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

It wasn't a saw, but the mailman delivered a box with two Baileigh catalogues and a Baileigh ball cap in it today. Ironically I had downloaded the woodworking catalogue earlier today. 

Thanks, Baileigh. I suggest a shop apron or safety glasses with the Baileigh brand for future customers. Still, the ball cap will look fine up on the closet shelf with all the other branded caps I've collected over the years.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I just said goodbye to my old table saw. Twas an 8" Craftsman I inherited from an Uncle who had taught woodshop all his professional career. I had the original documents in good shape, the saw ran well, and it should have another good home. Gave it to my Brother-in-Law. Should be a good start to his woodworking hobby.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Where do you stand on delivery of your new saw?


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

knotscott said:


> Where do you stand on delivery of your new saw?


No word from Baileigh so far. 72 hours passed Friday morning. They aren't open on weekends as far as I can tell. 

I still want their hybrid. It particularly meets my needs and no other hybrid in the same price range comes as close. 110v, 36" right of blade, 2.5" dust port which should work with my shop vac. I'm hoping the digital fence readout isn't cheaply built. I have quite a few uses in mind for it.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

My shop looks a bit empty with no table saw. Sure hoping Baileigh can put my order on a truck today. Can't help refreshing my email every 15 minutes or so hoping to see a shipped/tracking notice, but so far only the daily email spam.


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## Woodworkingkid (Jan 8, 2011)

This is way to long to wait for the saw to ship. With grizzly if u order on monday its there by friday. This gives me serioues second thoughts from ordering anything from them


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Woodworkingkid said:


> This is way to long to wait for the saw to ship.


Of course I agree. Nothing I've ordered over the internet in the last 5 years has taken more than one or two days to at least leave the warehouse on the way to my house. I'm feeling like I pre-ordered a product that hadn't even been manufactured yet. If they had warned me in any way it would take this long before I finalized my purchase I would have cancelled it and kept looking at alternatives. 

Even talking to Aaron last week there was no hint it wouldn't ship before now. 

At this point I can't recommend purchasing from them. Their products may be great but every day my saw doesn't show up lowers any good feelings I may have had going into this.


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## Oakwerks (Mar 24, 2013)

4DThinker said:


> Of course I agree. Nothing I've ordered over the internet in the last 5 years has taken more than one or two days to at least leave the warehouse on the way to my house. I'm feeling like I pre-ordered a product that hadn't even been manufactured yet. If they had warned me in any way it would take this long before I finalized my purchase I would have cancelled it and kept looking at alternatives.
> 
> Even talking to Aaron last week there was no hint it wouldn't ship before now.
> 
> At this point I can't recommend purchasing from them. Their products may be great but every day my saw doesn't show up lowers any good feelings I may have had going into this.


I've been watching this thread since it started.... I'm interested in the same saw, but now I'm not sure if these guys are "ready for prime time" yet....
Back to looking at Grizzly.....

Sent to y'all offen' a iPad thing......


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> Of course I agree. Nothing I've ordered over the internet in the last 5 years has taken more than one or two days to at least leave the warehouse on the way to my house. I'm feeling like I pre-ordered a product that hadn't even been manufactured yet. If they had warned me in any way it would take this long before I finalized my purchase I would have cancelled it and kept looking at alternatives.
> 
> Even talking to Aaron last week there was no hint it wouldn't ship before now.
> 
> At this point I can't recommend purchasing from them. Their products may be great but every day my saw doesn't show up lowers any good feelings I may have had going into this.




2 questions....

How many items have you purchased online that shipped FREIGHT in the past few years? 

You can't recommend them after not receiving a 1200 dollar item in 7 days? I feel for you as I know how it is to order something and have to wait...but It seems a little premature to not recommend someone based on this short of a time. My follow up question...before you ordered it, did you ask what day it would ship?


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## Oakwerks (Mar 24, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> 2 questions....
> 
> How many items have you purchased online that shipped FREIGHT in the past few years?
> 
> You can't recommend them after not receiving a 1200 dollar item in 7 days? I feel for you as I know how it is to order something and have to wait...but It seems a little premature to not recommend someone based on this short of a time. My follow up question...before you ordered it, did you ask what day it would ship?


I assume they ship "freight" every day..... The problem, as I see it, is not keeping him informed.... It's a customer service issue....

Sent to y'all offen' a iPad thing......


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

One other question....have you tried calling them today? Any response?


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

I agree its a customer service issue. That really bites too because ive been looking real hard at one of thier full size lathes. I dont deal with companies with shoddy CS regardless of how good thier product is.

As for slow shipping due to freight. Why would it take longer to put a crate on a truck rather than a box? Your talking about a company that ships tools every day. They have trucks or should have trucks at the ready to be loaded. I know they use LTL carriers so they may not have trucks on standby ay all times but I worked in the LTL business for several years and all of them will get a truck to you for a pick up the same day you call them.

Ive purchased 2 saws from Grizzly the last couple years. I knew when both were going to ship before I clicked confirm payment.

To the OP, I know you said you passed on the Grizzly hybrid because it comes prewired for 220. Unless something has changed, mine came prewired for 110. I switched it to 220 when it arrived. That took all of about 5 minutes following the instructions provided in the manual.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Oakwerks said:


> I assume they ship "freight" every day..... The problem, as I see it, is not keeping him informed.... It's a customer service issue....
> 
> Sent to y'all offen' a iPad thing......


I don't doubt they ship freight every day, and could the communication be better, probably. But the problem I see is the lack of clarity before the order was placed. 

Questions to always ask before paying...

How much
When
What 
Where 
Who


In this case.....price
When arriving (when shipped is irrelevant)
What's the product arriving
Where is delivery occurring 
Who's delivering it


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

On baleighs website...bottom of the page....shipping takes 3-5 days to leave the facility...and 3-5 days to arrive. I don't think it's realistic to get mad about shipping until this Friday which would be 10 days if you count weekends.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

I think it's easy to get spoiled in a world where Amazon brings me my items with 2-day shipping on most things(I have Prime) and sends me text shipping updates on my phone. I get pissy when I have to wait 3-5 days, now. A week would kill me, too. But, it's a saw weighing several hundred pounds. It's even a possibility that the main focus of the company is toward professionals. Don't get me wrong, I think it's certainly a little odd they haven't sent anything, but like some others I wouldn't write them off completely, yet.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

BassBlaster said:


> To the OP, I know you said you passed on the Grizzly hybrid because it comes prewired for 220. Unless something has changed, mine came prewired for 110. I switched it to 220 when it arrived. That took all of about 5 minutes following the instructions provided in the manual.


From Grizzly's web page the Hybrids all list "Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V*, single-phase, *prewired to 220V*". They also have a 4" dust port, and come with 30" or 52" fences. Trust me I've looked at all the hybrid saws that anyone makes. When I got to Baileigh's it stood out as closer to exactly what I wanted than any of the others: 36" fence, 2.5" dust port, 110v (for sure), and then they appealed to the tech gene I have with the digital fence readout.

I don't doubt you got a saw wired for 110. If Grizzly wanted to keep my attention longer they should have made it clear on their web page that it comes that way. What scared me off was the *: "NOTICE: *110V operation requires part #T23999 circuit breaker and wiring procedures that must be completed by an electrician or other qualified service personnel."

4D


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

One more reason to cross Bailiegh off the list of potential suppliers. I'm assuming that they have already received the money for the saw from you since you ordered it on line and you still don't have a ship date? Once I see that money gone from my bank, I'd better have a firm ship date in under 24 hours or else! I've bought several things from the internet from DVD's of favorite TV shows to equipment for my mobility devices. I have never had to wait more than 24 hours for a ship date to be sent to me and many times I have the item in my hands before the estimated delivery date.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> 2 questions....
> 
> How many items have you purchased online that shipped FREIGHT in the past few years?


Let me see... gazebo, porch swing, assorted furniture, my CNC, and probably a few things I've forgotten. In no case do I remember being frustrated with how long they took just to ship. Baileigh's CEO brags about their shipping goal of 72 hours. My saw isn't yet in transit as far as I know, and 72 hours elapsed last week.


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## Woodworkingkid (Jan 8, 2011)

4DThinker said:


> From Grizzly's web page the Hybrids all list "Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V*, single-phase, prewired to 220V". They also have a 4" dust port, and come with 30" or 52" fences. Trust me I've looked at all the hybrid saws that anyone makes. When I got to Baileigh's it stood out as closer to exactly what I wanted than any of the others: 36" fence, 2.5" dust port, 110v (for sure), and then they appealed to the tech gene I have with the digital fence readout.
> 
> I don't doubt you got a saw wired for 110. If Grizzly wanted to keep my attention longer they should have made it clear on their web page that it comes that way. What scared me off was the *: "NOTICE: *110V operation requires part #T23999 circuit breaker and wiring procedures that must be completed by an electrician or other qualified service personnel."
> 
> 4D


Trust me wiring a motor for 120 is not hard. There should be a diagram by the motor that explains it. They just have to say it takes a electrician to do it so if someone is a dumbass and gets hurt they cant sue grizzly


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Woodworkingkid said:


> Trust me wiring a motor for 120 is not hard.


Not arguing with you. A saw that comes wired the way I want it is simply more desirable than any that I have to spend time changing. There is more about the Grizzly I don't care for as well. I'm sure it's a fine saw, but as I had my last saw for 30 years, and don't plan on buying another one after this one, I want one that starts out with no compromises.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

ryan50hrl said:


> On baleighs website...bottom of the page....shipping takes 3-5 days to leave the facility...and 3-5 days to arrive. I don't think it's realistic to get mad about shipping until this Friday which would be 10 days if you count weekends.


If they're gonna compete with Grizzly, they're gonna need to do better than that with the shipping times. FWIW, I ordered a water pump online for one of our cars on Saturday morning, and it arrived today (blew my mind)!

4DThinker - I'm not a fan of Laguna Tools, but their Fusion saw looks like it came from the same factory as the Laguna....also 36" rip, also wired for 110v....no digitial readout, but you can add a Wixey to any of them, and it has a 4" DC connection, but a $6 adapter could fix that. I'm sure you've seen it already, but thought I'd bring it up as food for thought if Baleigh doesn't get your saw to you soon.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

knotscott said:


> ... but their Fusion saw looks like it came from the same factory as the Laguna....also 36" rip, also wired for 110v....no digitial readout, but you can add a Wixey to any of them, and it has a 4" DC connection, but a $6 adapter could fix that. I'm sure you've seen it already, but thought I'd bring it up as food for thought if Baleigh doesn't get your saw to you soon.


Yep, been there. I scratched it off my list for being more expensive (at the moment), that 4" dust port, and no digital readout. It does look like it could have come from the same plant as Baileigh's, but at this point I'm not in the mood to start over.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

knotscott said:


> If they're gonna compete with Grizzly, they're gonna need to do better than that with the shipping times. FWIW, I ordered a water pump online for one of our cars on Saturday morning, and it arrived today (blew my mind)!.



Not debating there's room for improvement, but no one is aware that any commitments were broken yet...the time is still within the window of shipping....and a water pump is hardly a table saw. I can order most things on amazon and have them tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest....is that a reasonable expectation for a 400 lb saw? I don't think so....maybe others do. 

I think we are more and more living in a world where instant gratification expectations sour feelings too often. If the saw arrives on day 12, and meets every other expectation the purchaser has, should it still be a reason to never do business again? Seems to me the final products performance and a reasonable customer service expectation would be combined to mean more.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

OK, so I just got off the phone with Aaron at Baileigh. My Saw left them on a FedEx Freight truck today and could be at my house Wednesday or Thursday. I have a tracking number, but it isn't active or I could be more specific.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> OK, so I just got off the phone with Aaron at Baileigh. My Saw left them on a FedEx Freight truck today and could be at my house Wednesday or Thursday. I have a tracking number, but it isn't active or I could be more specific.


Well that's good news.


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## Woodworkingkid (Jan 8, 2011)

4DThinker said:


> OK, so I just got off the phone with Aaron at Baileigh. My Saw left them on a FedEx Freight truck today and could be at my house Wednesday or Thursday. I have a tracking number, but it isn't active or I could be more specific.


Thats good that if it left. Just wonder why the # isnt active. Makes me think that they saw this thread and are doing damage control


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Woodworkingkid said:


> Thats good that if it left. Just wonder why the # isnt active. Makes me think that they saw this thread and are doing damage control


Usually the tracking number won't work until overnight. The driver downloads his board when he arrives at the center and from there it will upload to the web. I suspect of you were to call FedEx directly they could manually trace the number now and show it was picked up.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

4DThinker said:


> OK, so I just got off the phone with Aaron at Baileigh. My Saw left them on a FedEx Freight truck today and could be at my house Wednesday or Thursday. I have a tracking number, but it isn't active or I could be more specific.


 You shouldnt have had to call them and keep hounding them to get that information. Im like you, I want to know whats going on all the time.

Another thing that ticks me off is when I order something and the company prints a label right away. As soon as they print that label, USPS sends an email saying it has shipped but if you watch the tracking, it may not actually ship for several more days. I figured this out whn I placed an order on a Sun evening and got an email a half hour later saying it had shipped. I questioned how something shipped late on a Sun so I kept an eye on the tracking. It didnt actualy get to the PO till Tues.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

ryan50hrl said:


> Usually the tracking number won't work until overnight. The driver downloads his board when he arrives at the center and from there it will upload to the web. I suspect of you were to call FedEx directly they could manually trace the number now and show it was picked up.


 Yeah Ive noticed tracking numbers rarely work right away and some of them, specifically with the USPS wont show any movement untill the day it actual is delivered.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

4DThinker said:


> From Grizzly's web page the Hybrids all list "Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V*, single-phase, *prewired to 220V*". They also have a 4" dust port, and come with 30" or 52" fences. Trust me I've looked at all the hybrid saws that anyone makes. When I got to Baileigh's it stood out as closer to exactly what I wanted than any of the others: 36" fence, 2.5" dust port, 110v (for sure), and then they appealed to the tech gene I have with the digital fence readout.
> 
> I don't doubt you got a saw wired for 110. If Grizzly wanted to keep my attention longer they should have made it clear on their web page that it comes that way. What scared me off was the *: "NOTICE: *110V operation requires part #T23999 circuit breaker and wiring procedures that must be completed by an electrician or other qualified service personnel."
> 
> 4D


 Actually the more I think about it, I think it did come prewired for 220. I think it was my bandsaw that came wired 110 and I switched it to 220. I duuno. I cant remember what I did yesterday so...


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Back in the day, 100 years or so ago, machine orders would take one to two years from when you ordered to when it was ready/delivered. 

If that saw shows up in the 10 day window they state on their website, you have nothing to complain about.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

BassBlaster said:


> . I duuno. I cant remember what I did yesterday so...


Not to worry. I remember yesterday, but not all the details of when I got my first table saw.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> If that saw shows up in the 10 day window they state on their website, you have nothing to complain about.


What irked me the most was that going through their shopping process I had no idea it would take so long to ship. I'll blame it on them being new to web ordering. Their info pages claim you have to call them to place an order. Clearly I didn't have to, and if I'd know of the choice still would have ordered it on the web. Phone calls to sales people are not my idea of fun. 

I went to their home page a few days later to find the 72 hour shipping goal. I had to initiate today's info by calling Aaron, and it was a couple hours later when he called back. I still don't have anything that resembles a shipping notice email. When the tracking number activates I'll know for sure when it left today assuming it did.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Tracking info:

Pickup Date: 08/05/2013
ETA Date: 08/07/2013
Act. Delivery: NOT DELIVERED
Weight: 425
Pieces: 3

I'm guessing the main body, the side tables, and the fence. Time will tell.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> What irked me the most was that going through their shopping process I had no idea it would take so long to ship.



Right from the shipping/Handling part on their website.....

*Freight Shipments*
Once processed, all freight shipments are fully inspected, tested, and packaged to Baileigh Industrial’s strict standards. Depending on the size of the shipment and the trucking schedules of the carriers selected, this may take anywhere from 3 to 5 business days to complete. Once shipped, orders take approximately three to five business days to arrive.



http://wood.baileighindustrial.com/customer-service/shipping-handling/


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Yep, except their shopping pages aren't linked to their shipping pages, and I've never had to hunt for shipping info on any other purchase. My advice to them if they are listening: Make the shipping info a step in the ordering process.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Its linked on their main page.......right at the bottom.



Nevermind.......I hope the saw shows up and is everything you were hoping for. Enjoy the saw....


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

There is a lot of drama in this thread.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

ryan50hrl said:


> Right from the shipping/Handling part on their website.....
> 
> *Freight Shipments*
> Once processed, all freight shipments are fully inspected, tested, and packaged to Baileigh Industrial’s strict standards. Depending on the size of the shipment and the trucking schedules of the carriers selected, this may take anywhere from 3 to 5 business days to complete. Once shipped, orders take approximately three to five business days to arrive.
> ...


Thats a bogus policy. They are blaming the trucking companies for it taking 3 to 5 days to ship. Like I said, I worked in the LTL business for awhile. All the big boys like Fed Ex, UPS, Con Way, Old Dominion and a whole host of others will get a truck to your door for a pick up the day you call. They know theres a hundred other carriers out there that wanna haul your freight. If you call for a pick up, they come now. None of it matters now anyhow, sounds like his saw is in route!


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

In route, and to be delivered on a truck with a drop gate. Just pointing out that since this is for my home shop and I have no way to forklift a 400+ box off a truck, the folks at Baileigh made sure the driver could off-truck it. According to tracking it has gone from Manitowoc to Sheboygan to Mauston and left St. Paul this morning. It is heading for Manhattan KS..


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Good to hear..let us know what you think of the saw when you get it as I've been looking at a few of their other items.


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## Oakwerks (Mar 24, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Good to hear..let us know what you think of the saw when you get it as I've been looking at a few of their other items.


***x


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## Oakwerks (Mar 24, 2013)

Oakwerks said:


> Yes.... Looking for a complete report on quality ..... Also, after it was unloaded, are the individual pieces light enough for one man to handle, and assemble.....
> Looking forward to your report.....
> 
> Sent to y'all offen' a iPad thing......


Sent to y'all offen' a iPad thing......


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Oakweks,

The saw alone, according to their website weighs 260 lbs. The three boxes being shipped weigh 425 lbs. I have no idea what percentage of that is just the crates and packing materials, but if the driver leaves it all within 15ft of my garage/shop door I'll push/pull/drag/swear/rock/waggle/whatever until it's inside and then take my time uncrating and assembling. The saw has casters, so once out of the box shouldn't be hard to move to where I want it to live.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

4DThinker said:


> In route, and to be delivered on a truck with a drop gate. Just pointing out that since this is for my home shop and I have no way to forklift a 400+ box off a truck, the folks at Baileigh made sure the driver could off-truck it. According to tracking it has gone from Manitowoc to Sheboygan to Mauston and left St. Paul this morning. It is heading for Manhattan KS..


 Just an FYI, Id go ahead and put a call in to Fed Ex Freight and remind them in needs to be a lift gate truck. UPS showed up with my saw on a regular truck and then said well no one told us it was a residential delivery. Residential or not, it clearly stated on the BOL that I paid for lift gate service. When I had an issue and had to send the saw back, I called myself to set up the pick up and requested a lift gate truck. A driver showed up less than a half hour later with a regular truck.

Also, the driver dosnt have to do anything but drop it at your curb. Most of the times the drivers are fairly courtious and will pallet jack it into a garage or something for you but they dont have to so just be prepared to have to move your crate yourself if the driver is having a bad day.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Not bad advice, BassBlaster. Thanks for posting it. I too have been surprised a few times by freight deliveries, including one chap who insisted he had to be paid (cash) before unloading my crate. I've also had a delivery where they sent two men, and they happily delivered the huge box my Gazebo kit came in to my backyard deck. I have a few tricks for moving heavy stuff, and for the purposes of this thread am just going to see what the FedEx driver does once he gets here. I've got a 4-wheel cart that should manage the smaller two of the three boxes. I moved my old saw (half the weight of this one) out with a 2-wheeled dolly. I have to imagine the truck will have way to move the crate on and off the lift gate. I'll give a full report with photos tomorrow. It'll be a mini adventure.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

425 pounds aint nothing


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 425 pounds aint nothing


So true. If it were nothing I'd have to bolt the saw to the shop floor to keep the breeze from blowing it away. 

Since I'm bored, 425 lbs is a little less than two of me. It's 4 of my first wife when we first met. It is half the weight of my 650 scooter. It is 3000lbs less than what my 2012 Transit van weighs. At current rates, 425 pounds is 650.25 dollars.

Come to think of it, I could leg press 425 when I was 18. Goes far to explain why my knees are shot 38 years later. :blink:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> Come to think of it, I could leg press 425 when I was 18. Goes far to explain why my knees are shot 38 years later. :blink:



Ain't that the truth.....when I was 18 and wrestling in high school I was so proud that I could leg press 750....now....I wish that weight machine never existed. Sure I still have great leg muscle tone.....but I'm pretty sure there's a fair amount of meniscus gone.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I am sorry, it is not much. 265 is nothing. 

That is nothing to move. 

I have loaded unloaded 2500 pound machines solo. 

Dont hurt yourself.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I agree....use physics....levers, wheels, and inclined planes are your friend. Keep in mind there's never a need to lift the 265 lbs, just manipulate it to where you want to go.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Pretty clever folks here. Most figure the giant blocks used to build ancient works (like pyramids and such) were moved by aliens. I'm convinced it was the woodworkers who moved them, and it only took one man per stone monolith.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Ok, so Fedex called me to tell me they had a delivery for me, but apparently the only truck they had with a lift gate is broken. Delivery was supposed to be today, but has been moved to tomorrow and between the truck driver and I we'll have to unload it without a lift gate. He will have an appliance dolly. She did say the liftgate charge would be credited back to whoever paid. 

So one more day.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

That sucks....I unloaded mine by having 2 2x8's to rest against the back of the truck, and then slid the crate down them. Worked like a charm.


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## Baileigh Inc (Nov 1, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> Ok, so Fedex called me to tell me they had a delivery for me, but apparently the only truck they had with a lift gate is broken. Delivery was supposed to be today, but has been moved to tomorrow and between the truck driver and I we'll have to unload it without a lift gate. He will have an appliance dolly. She did say the liftgate charge would be credited back to whoever paid.
> 
> So one more day.


Geez, what an experience you have had. I would like to apologize for all of it.

Just to clear the air here a little, the web ordering process is fairly new to Baileigh and we are still working out some kinks. For the last 15 years all of our orders have been done direct or over the phone, so getting the website and the shipping set up has been a bit of a challenge.

Some of the rates might seem a bit high right now until we get it worked out, so if anyone is getting a high rate, just call me (Shane) or Aaron and we will get you taken care of.

Don't forget to mention you are from the forum.

...again sorry for all you have been through on this.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> That sucks....I unloaded mine by having 2 2x8's to rest against the back of the truck, and then slid the crate down them. Worked like a charm.


A good idea, Ryan. I've got an 8' long 2x12 motorcyle ramp that might do the ticket if we balance the big box carefully while sliding down. I'll have to see how beefy the truck driver is before offering it up.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Shane, 

I appreciate your apology, especially since I know this isn't your personal fault. Baileigh isn't only new to web ordering, but late to it. I wouldn't have been this frustrated if the year was 2008. In 2013 I'm used to next day shipping or even delivery, or the web order page displaying expected ship dates if it can't be shipped right away. I don't know if your shopping pages are managed in-house or not, but they should focus on having specific info about shipping and delivery INSIDE the order sequence rather than just a link to general policies if one happens to scroll all the way down.


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## Baileigh Inc (Nov 1, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> Shane,
> 
> I appreciate your apology, especially since I know this isn't your personal fault. Baileigh isn't only new to web ordering, but late to it. I wouldn't have been this frustrated if the year was 2008. In 2013 I'm used to next day shipping or even delivery, or the web order page displaying expected ship dates if it can't be shipped right away. I don't know if your shopping pages are managed in-house or not, but they should focus on having specific info about shipping and delivery INSIDE the order sequence rather than just a link to general policies if one happens to scroll all the way down.


Thank you. This little incident will change things moving forward.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

You ain't gonna get next day delivery with freight shipping. 

People are way too impatient these days, everyone wants instant gratification. 

Unload parts individually. Only take a few minutes and each part will be manageable. 

I have saw tops that weigh more.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

In most cases you are right, WarnerConstInc. I'm an Amazon prime customer, and even before you click on anything their item pages display "Want it Tuesday, Aug. 13? Order within 20 hrs 29 mins and choose Standard Delivery: Carrier will contact you for scheduling an appointment at checkout. Details...". It is not about next day deliver so much as it is being INFORMED from the very beginning when I can expect my order. If Amazon can get me something in one day (or 13 days) they let me know that on the item page.


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## info (Oct 3, 2011)

4DThinker said:


> In most cases you are right, WarnerConstInc. I'm an Amazon prime customer, and even before you click on anything their item pages display "Want it Tuesday, Aug. 13? Order within 20 hrs 29 mins and choose Standard Delivery: Carrier will contact you for scheduling an appointment at checkout. Details...". It is not about next day deliver so much as it is being INFORMED from the very beginning when I can expect my order. If Amazon can get me something in one day (or 13 days) they let me know that on the item page.


I agree .Its not about the next day or two shipping . It letting the new owner know when or est on shipping . 
Even amazon post products not in stock before buying the item .
They could have posted table saw not in stock and est when item will be in stock or ready for shipping . 
It looks like a great table saw . I like to read the review from you .


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Review is planned. The saw should be here by 4:00 this afternoon.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

OK, well the saw showed up a little before 11:00. The truck DID have a lift gate, and the driver along with the pallet jack he had left the Saw/pallet right inside my garage/shop door. All three boxes were wrapped together on a pallet. I asked why I was told the only truck with a liftgate was broken while this truck looked and worked perfectly fine. He had no idea. One Fedex excuse for being a day later than originally promised I guess. 

I unwrapped the main bundle to separate out the two smaller boxes. They both had fence parts, with the long slender one being just the fence bar. 

The saw and it's accessories were in a plywood crate all it's own. I unscrewed the obvious row of screws around the bottom edge, but couldn't lift/separate the box from the saw. Looked like it should simply lift off but I couldn't manage it by myself. I ended up using a hammer and pry bar to take the box apart face by face. Took 10 minutes or so, and inside was the saw along with 2 top sections and a box with everything else. Miter gauge, blade guard, push stick, assorted brackets, and a few other things I haven't opened up yet. 

I got the top sections unboxed, cleaned off, and mounted to the main saw body. All required bolts/washers were already screwed into the saw top. 

1:00 and I'm taking a break for lunch.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

There's no saw unless we see pictures.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

*Flaws*

OK, so I've bumped into a few errors and flaws. 

1. The info at Baileigh states this saw comes with a 2.5" dust port. Mine has a 4" port. One of the key reasons I chose this saw over other Hybrids. Dang it!

2. Installing the back rail for the fence, the holes in the wings don't align with the outer holes in the rail sections. I was able to force the right one, although I may have bent the bolt and the rail isn't tight to the wing at that point. The left end is off 1/8" or more, and there is nothing I can do to get a bolt through there. The other 4 bolts were very hard to install, as the back edge of the top there is very close to the lower case. No finger room. It took tape to hold the nut in a box wrench, some swearing, and far longer than it should but I eventually got them installed and tight. Not sure what to do about the mis-aligned bolt holes. I don't want to take a drill to the rail, and am not sure I could just widen those outer holes anyway. This suggests to me that no one at Baileigh has bothered to assemble one of these. Either that or I've been sent a mis-manufactured rear rail. 

4D


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

That sucks....the dust port issue is a pretty easy fix. The rail not as much so....ironically, my completely different brand saw the rail holes didn't line up either.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

*Photos*

Fedex,
Delivered,
Unwrapped,
Mostly together.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

*The Flaws*

4" dust port that should have been 2.5".
Misaligned hole.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Looks like a nice saw other than your issues a d the switch location....I'd be relocating that right away. I regularly shut my saw off with my thigh....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you will need a rat tail file.*

This is not uncommon with certain machines and setup. However 1/8" is a bit much. Usually the holes are elongated or oversize on the rails and the side extensions are just 1 size larger in my experience.
It is a 2 rail system or a 1 rail like a Biesemeyer? Keep us informed on this ordeal.... :yes:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> It is a 2 rail system or a 1 rail like a Biesemeyer? Keep us informed on this ordeal.... :yes:


The back rail is just to help keep the fence slightly off the table. Otherwise it's another t-square fence just like the Biesemeyer. Extruded aluminum faces on the fence other than high density plastic or a plywood board with formica on it.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Looks like a nice saw other than your issues a d the switch location....I'd be relocating that right away. I regularly shut my saw off with my thigh....


I agree Ryan. I'll be looking into moving it quickly. This one I can't hit with my knee.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> 4" dust port that should have been 2.5".
> Misaligned hole.


in the future, you'll be thankful that port is 4" and not 2.5". it's easy to make smaller:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19551&site=ROCKLER

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30301&site=ROCKLER

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2000899/2160/4-to-212-reducer-dust-extraction-fitting.aspx

it's a whole lot harder making a smaller fitting larger and still move the necessary volume of air.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I solved half of the fence problems by sliding the fence bar left 15.4mm. Fortunately that was easy to do. Instructions wanted it flush with the edge of the table though. Whoever put the tape on the bar confused their centimeters and inches, and only sliding like I did can I set the scale accurately to represent true fence to blade distance. Now I need to figure out how to aim the digital readout higher. 

I also was able to get one end of the back rail to bolt tight. I rat tail filed some, then drilled it out with a 5/16" drill bit until the bolt would go straight through. The 1/8"+ error on the other end is too far off for those tricks to work. I can't get my file even started in the small hole remaining.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the 4" dust port is best*

You won't get the proper volume of flow with a shop vac anyway.
The 4" needs a full size Dust Collector with about 400 CFM of volume.

Any dust the gets picked up at the very bottom got there by way of gravity, not because the dust collection was efficient. :no:

To solve the dust problem on my 12" Powermatic I made a sheet metal shroud that circled the blade allowing the dust to be picked up at the point of origin. I also use a shop vac and an overhead dust pick up arm... it pretty much solves both issues ...dust falling down to the bottom and dust spitting off the top of the blade. New saws have the entire blade surrounded and a shop vac pick up on the rear like my Bosch 4000.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

On the few cuts I've made so far there has been a nice flow of chips out the open 4" chute. I haven't peeked inside the case yet, but it looks like they might have it well funneled to that port. 
I have a 10" radial arm saw that I rigged up a dust collector behind. I have a small shop vac connect there, and if on it'll keep all the chips from bouncing back at me. Turn it off and I get a face full. Of course a RAS isn't making cuts as long as most cuts a table saw makes, but no matter what I cut that little shop vac keeps up. 

Now I'm considering how to alter the digital fence readout so it can be quickly removed and replaced. Why? Sticking up like it does prevents making any cuts with the fence left of the blade.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I'm almost sure the fence I got was once set up on someone else's saw then returned. As stated before the instructions wanted me to do a few things that had already been done, and besides the tape being applied wrong the plastic magnifying lens has a gash/scratch in it. That lens was also center/focused on the metric half of the tape, making it very hard to see the imperial (inches) side. The box looked like it had been opened before, then retaped. The staples under the tape had already been pulled through the cardboard. 

I resolved both these issues, but can see someone returning the fence kit after screwing up the tape application. Besides moving the fence bar over I also modified the plastic tape lens so I could move it back 1/8" or so to better display the inch half.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Being a noob, I have to ask: what makes this a hybrid?


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

NetDoc said:


> Being a noob, I have to ask: what makes this a hybrid?


Saws with direct drive motors are typically full cabinet design. Belt drive saws are usually open/on stands. This is a belt drive saw that is in a full cabinet, bringing along better dust collection and other features of professional saws but at a lower price.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

I really like the look and the fact that it has miter slots on either side of the saw. What else brought you to decide on this particular saw?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

NetDoc said:


> Being a noob, I have to ask: what makes this a hybrid?


Read the well written 3 sticky threads at the top of this forum on table saw classification. This is the first.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/...ns-making-sense-all-choices-part-1-3-a-43321/

Hybrid saws are described in part 2.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/...ns-making-sense-all-choices-part-2-3-a-43320/


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

NetDoc said:


> I really like the look and the fact that it has miter slots on either side of the saw. What else brought you to decide on this particular saw?


Sale Price (mostly negated by the high shipping charges), 2.5" dust port (a mistaken spec, turned out to be the ordinary 4"), digital fence readout (angled too low, and fence scale pre-installed wrong too the thrill out of this feature), and 36" right of blade cutting width (which I lost 15.4mm of to fix the tape flaw).

It'll be a fine saw in the end, but only after I spend my time and more money fixing the flaws/mistakes it came with. Several other companies sell hybrids with similar specs. My guess is that any one of them would have been at least as good, and the more experienced companies (Grizzly perhaps) would do better on these details.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

4DThinker said:


> Saws with direct drive motors are typically full cabinet design. Belt drive saws are usually open/on stands. This is a belt drive saw that is in a full cabinet, bringing along better dust collection and other features of professional saws but at a lower price.



The two most popular saws ever made, unisaw and pm66 are belt drives. I have 3 saws that average 2300 pounds each that are belt drive. Direct drive saws are and were fairly rare, although most company's had one. Now, direct drive screamer portable table saws really don't count as a direct drive saw.

I believe the main thing is the motor and stuff are bolted to the table, where as cabinet type saws have the motor and trunnions mounted in the cabinet.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not so much*



4DThinker said:


> *Saws with direct drive motors are typically full cabinet design.* Belt drive saws are usually open/on stands. This is a belt drive saw that is in a full cabinet, bringing along better dust collection and other features of professional saws but at a lower price.


The little screamer portables are direct drive. :thumbdown:
I have some older '80's Craftsman 12" direct drive saws where the motors are the same configuration as those on their 10" and 12" Radial Arm Saws.

Contractor type saws, with the open stand and the motor hanging out the back do use a single V belt. But the heavy duty cabinet saws are the "industry standard" and use a 3 belt design. My 12" Powermatic has 3 belts as do the Unisaws and many others. Hybrid use a multi V groove belt these days, like my Craftsman 22124.
My Bosch 4000 Job site saws is direct drive, but it doesn't scream too bad... :no:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Good to know more about the history of belts and such. My old Craftsman 8" TS was the motor hanging off the back and a single V-belt. Was OK for nice 90 degree cuts, but the belt did NOT like twisting to make an angle cut despite the blade being able to tip to 45 degrees. 

Back to the Baileigh Hybrid, I've been considering how to build and hang another table wing section to the right, but neither the existing wing or the back fence bar have any holes to bolt through in that open space. The front bar of the fence slides a t-slot over square headed bolts screwed into the front of the table, and I can use that t-slot to hook my section into. Looks like I'll have to drill into at least the back fence bar.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

knotscott said:


> 4DThinker - I'm not a fan of Laguna Tools, but their Fusion saw looks like it came from the same factory as the Laguna....also 36" rip, also wired for 110v... I'm sure you've seen it already, but thought I'd bring it up as food for thought if Baleigh doesn't get your saw to you soon.


Turns out the Baileigh Hybrid is exactly the same saw as the Laguna, except for a few small packaging/painting details. I went looking for a dado throat plate for my Baileigh, and as far as I can tell there are none listed on Baileigh's site. On a hunch I went to Laguna's site and found a zero-clearance throat plate exactly like the one on my saw, as well as a dado plate option to buy. The fence used is exactly the same as mine less the digital readout. Their power switch is better located IMO. 

I own a small CNC and have drawn up a pattern to cut my own plates to fit. Looking for replacement throat plates on the web doesn't find any standard ones that would fit this saw, so I'm glad Laguna sells them. In fact, anyone looking for a hybrid TS with these specs SHOULD consider Laguna before Baileigh based on my experience with Baileigh's offering.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Phenolic is really easy to shape, so you can trim down nearly any phenolic insert that's at least as large as your opening. You can always roll your own from blank phenolic or other suitable material.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

knotscott said:


> Phenolic is really easy to shape, so you can trim down nearly any phenolic insert that's at least as large as your opening. You can always roll your own from blank phenolic or other suitable material.


The throat plate on Baileigh's and Laguna's hybrids is wider than almost any blank I've found. About 4+3/16 x 14. I've got some high density plastic 3/8" thick that should work as well which I can cut the plate out using my small CNC. I notice the standard plate has sheet metal insets on the rear to protect from the spring loaded anti-kickback pawls on the blade guard. They won't be needed on a dado insert, but I thought that was an interesting result of the guard design.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

After seeing this detail photo on Laguna's site I opened up the case on my baileigh to see if it was the same. Mine does indeed have a 2.5" hose connected to the blade surround, leading down to a plate recessed inside the 4" port on the side. Laguna Interior

Unfortunately the 2.25" pipe's inside dimension isn't large enough for me to plug my standard shop vac 2.25" hose end into or I'd be a happy camper. If that plate wasn't welded in the way I could tap right into the down hose from the blade surround.


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## Ostie (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm ready to see a review on how well it works. If it is the same as a Laguna, that makes this Baleigh a little more desireable, to me.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

4DThinker said:


> The throat plate on Baileigh's and Laguna's hybrids is wider than almost any blank I've found. About 4+3/16 x 14. I've got some high density plastic 3/8" thick that should work as well which I can cut the plate out using my small CNC. I notice the standard plate has sheet metal insets on the rear to protect from the spring loaded anti-kickback pawls on the blade guard. They won't be needed on a dado insert, but I thought that was an interesting result of the guard design.


Should be nice and wide to get your hands in, but I'd add some support under 3/8" plastic that's that wide. An insert that flexes contributes to saw that cuts poorly....should be very rigid.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I ordered a 12"x24" sheet of phenolic from McMaster.com. 3/8" thick. Just in case the high density plastic isn't stiff enough. The one I make will be just for the dado blade set I order, so other than the rectangular hole for the blade stack the perimeter "should" be stiff enough. The tabs under the plate are 1/2" down from the top, so I plan on drilling and tapping for set screws at each point to adjust it flat with the table top. 

Knowing now that it's a 2.25" down hose from the saw surround I went ahead and drew up then cut my own adapter plate to go over the 4" port. One advantage of having a small CNC in my shop is that I could cut the center hole for my shop vac hose with a taper to fit very snuggly. The outer slot for the 4" port tube was a little loose, but one wrap of painter's tape solved that. With this adapter and my shop vac running no chips blew out the top when cutting, and of course nothing blew out the port. A store bought conical adapter might do a better job, but this appears to work fine so far. 

I made several cuts through some 3/4 lumber core plywood and other than the rear pawls of the blade guard surprising me (strong spring tension holding them down) the cuts were easy and true.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I figured out how to hang an extension wing off the right of the Baileigh top without drilling any holes. Built a frame and cut a top, then after staring at it awhile realized if I put in a bottom and hinged the top it would be a great place to store the saw accessories. I had a look at Rockler's lid support torsion hinges but for $50 a pair am considering some other strategy. If nothing else a simple prop stick to hold it open while accessing. It'll hinge from the outside edge. 

I used the t-track slot on the front with two 5/16" hex bolts, and rigged up little clamps to grip the bottom flange of the rear angle. VERY careful measuring and when the top is on it is perfectly flush to the saw top.

The top is wrapped MDF from an old Sauder desk or some such. 5/8" thick. It may sag over time, and if it does I'll replace it with 1/2" BB ply plastic laminate on both sides.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*nice idea*

Just don't store your saw blades in there because if your rip fence is over the top and you have to get one out and move the fence from it's previous setting.... but only flat, thin things can go in there anyway. maybe a whole set of various router bits? project drawings maybe? :blink:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I've got 1.75" of height in there. I put the 1/4" bottom flush to the bottom of the 2" tall frame. The digital readout makes putting the fence back exactly where it was only as hard as remembering what it read. I can't imagine changing the blade and not moving the fence to set up the next cut anyway, but as this is the first big/capable saw I've owned it could happen. 

It's about 15.5" x 25.5" in there. I was thinking the literature that came with the saw, a couple of push sticks, the dado blade set I ordered, and any spare throat inserts I buy or make could go in there. Who knows? I could store my laptop or any tablet in there. Making it a place I have to open occasionally should keep me from using that area for cut off scraps as tends to happen on the saws at the university.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

OK, so I've notice a little snipe from the blade when exiting a cut. I bought a digital dial micrometer and have checked the distance from the miter slots to the blade. No matter which way I check it, the rear of the blade is .006ish closer to the slot/fence than the front of the blade. 

I've been through all the literature that came with this saw. There is no mention of any way to adjust the blade relative to the miter slots. In setting up, the FENCE was checked against and if need be was adjusted parallel to the miter slots. 

I can adjust the fence parallel to the blade. My gut tells me this will screw up the accuracy of the miter gauge when used. 

Anyone here know how to adjust the blade? There are videos specifically on doing this for Grizzly's saws. Seems like a critical step I want to take.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*depends*

On a table saw with the carriage/trunnions mounted to the cabinet you loosen the table and adjust it parallel to the blade. 

On a table saw with the carriage/trunions mounted on the table, you loosen the bolts that secure them and adjust the carriage to be parallel to the blade. That's a hybrid, so it may have the carriage mounted to the cabinet...I donno?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

It boggles my mind that manufacturers will sell a $1200 saw with no instructions for adjusting the blade parallel to the miter slots.....it's a critical adjustment, so it's worth a call to their tech staff, and its worth suggesting that they add the instructions to the manual. Honestly, these are basics that should have been taken care of long before they start running promotions anad having give-aways on woodworking forums. Sorry if I seem critical of Baleigh, but 4DThinker's experience is the only information I have to go on so far, and I think they'd have to admit, it hasn't gone particularly well so far. I truly hope it's an exception, and not the norm. I also hope that the emphasis on promotions instead of the basic tool ownership isn't indicative of their business philosophy....otherwise what's the point in paying a premium and getting a less than satisfactory experience in return? If price isn't their strong suit, the buying experience and tool quality should be. The relationship has to be mutually beneficial for Baleigh to survive....plus, they're the new guy to this scene, so they have offer something the competition doesn't. 

As far as I can tell, your saw does have cabinet mounted trunnions....they actually look a lot like table mounted trunnions, but I think they mount to the front and rear struts of the cabinet, as opposed to the corners. If I'm right, you should be able to loosen the bolts that hold the table top secure, and adjust the table until the blade is in perfect alignment with the miter slots. Check the exploded pictorial diagram in the manual to help find their location.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

The exploded views in the manual are pretty worthless. Printed so small and grainy that I need a magnifying glass just to make sense of the numbers assigned to each part. 

In examining my saw it appears there are just three bolts holding the top to the cabinet. One near each front corner but accessed from the sides, and one center back. I can't get a good enough view inside the cabinet to tell what the trunnions are mounted to. The adjustment for 90 and 45 degree stop limits is done though set screws embedded in the top. It makes me think the trunnion is hung from the top. The exploded views don't show the cabinet on the same page as the trunnion assembly and I don't see anything that looks like an attachment point for the trunnion in the cabinet drawing. 

I will be calling tech support in the morning. This is a saw they import rather than make themselves. It is exactly like the Laguna Hybrid, so I'm going to check their web site to see if there is better downloadable documentation.

Update: The manual Laguna has is exactly the same as what I got from Baileigh, less company logos. No mention of blade-to-table adjustment. I'm guessing they assume that will be set at the factory being a difficult adjustment for the home shop hobbyist which this saw is aimed at. Too bad, as with my saw that setting is clearly off.


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## info (Oct 3, 2011)

Why are you having so many problems. A great saw , I only hear that his a problem child . Why not send it back ?


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

info said:


> Why are you having so many problems. A great saw , I only hear that his a problem child . Why not send it back ?


Good questions, Info.

The problems are with the saw not with me. They are only identifiable by uncrating and assembling this 400lb beast, and the crate pretty much had to be destroyed to get it out. No easy "sending it back". I'm publicly suffering through the process of tuning this saw and solving it's problems so that anyone else considering it can learn from my experience. 

So far? Don't buy this saw if you want a set-up-and-go experience. It is not a polished package.


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

4DThinker said:


> The top is wrapped MDF from an old Sauder desk or some such.


Nice work on the extension, it looks nice. If you have any of that desk top material left, you can make some ZCI's out of it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

So some of you may disagree with me...and that's fine. This is just my opinion....

No offense, but I think there are some expectations that aren't realistic either.

That the blade is .006 out of parallel with the miter slot, the saw made its way around the world, keeping it that accurate is impressive enough. Now could the manual explain it better, probably, but to be fair most people that have the ability, knowledge and skill to measure something to .006 probably aren't going to read the manual to set it. 

The problem comes back to the question how close is close enough? If .006 isn't close enough, is .0006? The more precise you make a piece, the more expensive it becomes. 

The shipping issues, I still maintain that was a lot about nothing. 

The fence rails ill give you were wrong, if it were me and I didn't want to grind the hole out ( my saw of a different brand had the same problem and I just ground the holes), I'd have called the supplier and requested new rails....


How many can honestly say they've bought a piece of equipment, a car, a tractor, a computer, ect that didn't need some minor tweaking to make it perfect. I can't think of many. A number of people have said that maybe baileigh isn't ready for the big times....well look at the dw735 dewalt planer, a number of people have issues with snipe on theirs that's been unresolved for years, yet this model is considered to be one of the best...


If we were talking about a 5000 dollar powermatic saw, id expect closer to perfection, however I think to expect perfection out of a 1200 dollar saw Is a problem with expectations....not the saw.


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## info (Oct 3, 2011)

I bet after you get it all set . That's going be a very nice saw . 
I like everything about it .


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

rbk123 said:


> Nice work on the extension, it looks nice. If you have any of that desk top material left, you can make some ZCI's out of it.


Thanks. I made a similar rear extension (no bottom though) for the ancient 8" craftsman saw I had about 30 years ago and it was still in great shape when I gave that saw to my Brother-in-law. 

I'll guess Zero Clearance Inserts is what ZCI stands for, and that wrapped MDF at 5/8" is 1/8" too thick for the insert recess. I'm clever enough to rabbit the underside to make it work though and may eventually make one to test.


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

4DThinker said:


> I'll guess Zero Clearance Inserts is what ZCI stands for, and that wrapped MDF at 5/8" is 1/8" too thick for the insert recess. I'm clever enough to rabbit the underside to make it work though and may eventually make one to test.


Good guess. :smile:

It's not uncommon to have to rabbit the underside - I have to do that for my ZCI's. When you set down, crank out 3-4 of them so you can have multiple for angle cuts/whatever reasons. Saves setup time and the later ones will go much faster than the first one.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> This is just my opinion....
> 
> If we were talking about a 5000 dollar powermatic saw, id expect closer to perfection, however I think to expect perfection out of a 1200 dollar saw Is a problem with expectations....not the saw.


I don't mind your opinions, Ryan. Keep them coming. 

I didn't expect the saw to be perfect when I got it. I did expect to be able to adjust it so that it would be perfect for me though. I wouldn't have thought .006" was enough to matter, but I found the back of the saw blade nipping the board as it left before bothering to measure it's alignment. It is enough to matter. They provided good instructions for putting the saw together, mounting the fence, adjusting the fence, etc. I couldn't follow them completely since two holes didn't align, but at least that attempt was fine. They didn't provide any indication in text or images how to align the saw blade to the miter slots. My 40 year old Craftsman saw had far better instructions which included fine tuning all alignments.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

toolguy1000 said:


> in the future, you'll be thankful that port is 4" and not 2.5". it's easy to make smaller:
> 
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19551&site=ROCKLER
> 
> ...


IMHO, 2 1/2 inches will not work. If he does not have a 4 inch hose drop and connection, with at least 500CFM plus, good luck on removing all the saw dust out of the base and prevent some thrown up by the blade. With a dado, 500CFM may not be enough.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*fine dust need lots of volume*



woodnthings said:


> You won't get the proper volume of flow with a shop vac anyway.
> The 4" needs a full size Dust Collector with about 400 CFM of volume.
> 
> Any dust the gets picked up at the very bottom got there by way of gravity, not because the dust collection was efficient. :no:


The smaller the hose the greater the velocity, the larger the hose the greater the volume. Velocity and volume are kinda "opposites". In order to get a large volume at a high velocity, you need a real high speed blower moving lots of air.
Bill Pentz's site has the volume requirements for various tools:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/dc_basics.cfm#CFMRequirementsTable


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> The smaller the hose the greater the velocity.


Very true in all cases.
:smile::laughing:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I sent tech support an email this morning about the blade to table adjustment. They responded quickly with a word document containing photos and this text:

_*To adjust the alignment between blade and miter slot, loosen these 3 bolts that hold the table down . Two bolts in the corners and one in the center of the backside. Bump the table in the desired direction, tighten the bolts, and measure the alignment. This may take several tries. Please note that minute variances may be caused by a less than “true” blade. Perform the procedure with a new blade.*_

So if we move the table relative to the blade, the blade/trunnion must be attached to the cabinet. These three bolts are easy to get to, so I'm delighted. I have a Forrest blade coming tomorrow and I'll make the adjustment after installing it.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

My Forrest blade showed up today, so I installed it and went about aligning it with the miter slots. The three bolts holding the top to the cabinet were relatively easy to get to and loosen a quarter turn. With my iron mallet and a block of wood I rapped on the corners of the table until finally (checking/rapping/checking again/etc..) I've got it within .0005 front to back. Seems like a sneeze would move it from +.0005 to -.0005 so I'm happy with that. 

I had to reset the tape marker and digital readout, but that was easy. After the top was retightened they were off about 1/16". A quick cut through some 3/4" baltic birch ply left a nearly perfect edge with no splitting/peeling of the 90 degree face veneer. So far I like the Forrest blade. I didn't sense the previous blade snipe on exit, so I think I've got that problem solved.

... Now to decide how to get a bolt through the holes that are 3/16" offset on the rear fence support rail. That hole is left of the blade where I'm not likely to be using the fence. Not a critical problem, but the last nagging thing that was wrong with this saw. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

About dust collection...

I've got my 2.25" shop vac hose attached through an adapter plate on the 4" port. I run the vac whenever I make a cut. With the blade guard in place very little dust will end up above the table. The vac gets what comes down the 2.25" internal tube. Some dust makes it's way out of the cabinet and mostly on the floor along the back edge. When changing the blade and looking into aligning it I had the cabinet open. A small amount of dust was coating any interior parts that had been oil/grease covered, and a small amount had collected on the floor of the cabinet. The blade surround isn't complete, so obviously some dust makes it's way out any holes to the cabinet interior. I'm impressed with the difference the vac makes when used with the blade guard. Looking down around the blade very little dust stays in that surround. What gets into the cabinet should be easy to clean out through the side access panels. 

4D


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> About dust collection...I run the vac whenever I make a cut......


i'd humbly suggest investigating the ivac switch line of products for automatic slave tool (i.e., shop vac , dust collector, lamp, etc) activation. removes the operation of "turning on " the accessory tool and makes collector activation/deactivation easier:

http://www.ivacswitch.com/index.action

i use two ivac switches, daisy chained together, which automatically activate a shop vac and DC whenever a power tool is activated.

for the ultimate in dust collection, checkout allan schaffter's video. he frequently posts on woodnet (alan in little washington) and saw mill creek(alan schaffter).

http://www.americanwoodworker.tv/videos/5057_automatic-dust-collection/


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

We've been using a similar auto switch on the tools where I work. Not sure if they are ivac or not as I didn't specify or install them. I've already been looking into a way to have my vac come on automatically when the saw is turned on but just haven't gotten around to that yet. I need one on my radial arm saw too. I was able to rig my CNC up so when the controller turn on the router it also turns on the dust collector and enjoy that capability there. I've been thinking about rigging a camera up to start recording whenever my saw comes on as well. Not as easy a trick.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

To date I've hinged the wing table lid. Still need to put a chain or prop stick in there to hold it open, and I've got a flush pull coming for a handle. It is surprising how useful this hidden storage is. My Wixey angle cube, depth gauge, digital caliper, tape measures, push sticks, safety glasses, and Table saw wrench/accessories all fit in there with room to spare. 

I bought the PSI Woodworking LR110-3 110-Volt Long Ranger Dust Collector Switch. I can keep the remote on my belt and start whatever it plugged into this with a quick button press. At the moment it has my table saw's shop vac plugged into it and the switch works great. When I leave the shop I put the remote in that wing storage box. 

I'm using a 4' x 6' formica-topped table behind my saw to catch off cuts. It happened to be a perfect 1/16" shorter than the saw table. I noticed yesterday that I'll need to router short miter slot extension slots in it, but that is an easy layout and simple job. 

4D


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

4DThinker said:


> I'm using a 4' x 6' formica-topped table behind my saw to catch off cuts. It happened to be a perfect 1/16" shorter than the saw table. I noticed yesterday that I'll need to router short miter slot extension slots in it, but that is an easy layout and simple job.
> 
> 4D


Rather than rout grooves into my outfeed table, I made a short "bridge" to span in between them with the grooves in that, rather than the table. I secured it both to the saw rail and the table with blocks to support it. Just a thought if you want to use the table for other things and the grooves would get in the way.....

You can see it here behind the quilt rack between the saw table and the outfeed table:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Clever idea, Woodnthings. Right now I don't have an extra 8ish inches to pull my saw back or push the table forward to drop in a slotted spacer. Looks like your spacer has become additional table space, which I don't need either. I was planning on making simple slot filler strips to flush the table surface when the slots would otherwise be a problem. Might hold them in with some embedded rare earth magnets to the head of a screw. 

Getting my shop back in shape, inspired by this new saw, is a pleasant experience. More so than I expected it to be. It's not a production shop and I don't have to hurry, so each of these little decisions can be quick, or slowly contemplated. I've also been toying with an idea for simply dropping the table top 3/8" when using the miter gauge, then "popping" it back up when done. So far slots with fillers is the idea that stays risen to the top.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I had a great idea for making my outfeed table drop 3/8" when needed and then pop back up when not. Drew it all up and realized it was far too complicated for the problem that needed a solution. Cut out a quick pattern so I could use my router with a guide bushing to cut slots and the job was done in few minutes. 

I cut a pattern for the flush pull on the extension wing table lid as well, and got it cut then installed. 

I have a few things that won't fit in the extension table bin, and now wish I'd added a drawer below the extension table just a little deeper for those things. I've been using the outfeed table as work space, and the table wing is 90 degrees to the left. Having a drawer or even two there that pull out toward the work space would be extremely handy. There is plenty of room above the shop vac I've been keeping there. I may be remaking the wing extension to include a drawer or two.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*another idea*

Make an auxillary top for the outfeed table with the grooves. I made mine, the bridge in the photo above, by making separate rectangles of 1/2 " MDF spaced just slightly more than the miter bars and screwing them in place...no routing required. Make the new aux top reversible, one side for working on the other side for outfeed with miter bar grooves. That would require lowering the legs on the table you have by the additional thickness, maybe not in your plans ....I donno?

OR since the miter grooves need not go all the way across the outfeed table just make a reversible section of the width required for the grooves.

A combination outfeed/work table has it's issues with either work in the way or cutoffs in the way of a work project. However it IS the best use of floor space, in my opinion.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Not bad ideas, Woodnthings. The outfeed table I'm using is half of a donated former veterinarians (home made it appears) exam table with a formica top over what appears to be exterior grade plywood. Nothing on the bottom beside the frame/legs. It used to have aluminum edge trim that rode over the top edge by about 1/4". That interfered with outfeed waste so I replaced it with vinyl t-slot trim that is flush to the top. No easy flipping the top or anything purty on the underside worth seeing. I could make a new outfeed table from scratch, and it'd be perfect in every way. This table seems to be working out fine though so for now it is as it is. The slots are already routed out, and I'll make filler strips for them any minute now. 

Using the outfeed table as workspace is indeed a solution to limited floor space. Most often what I'm cutting on the table saw won't need more than half the outfeed table's width, so I just make sure my mess is out of the way. When I want to cut a piece of plywood that will cover the whole width of the table I'll clean it all off before starting. Never much of a burden. It's always just my mess so I can't complain to anyone. I have one more work table a few feet away, and if I'm going to be needing the table saw often during a project I'll set up there and leave the outfeed table clean. The light over the saw is better though.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

One reason I picked Baileigh over Laguna (both their hybrids saws are the same less paint) was the digital fence readout you can see at the bottom of the photo above. In concept it's a great idea. The execution of this particular design leaves much to be desired though. 

My major complaint is the viewing angle. The LCD tech used is to conserve battery life, and they claim it'll work for 6 months or so before needing to replace them. Notice you can't see anything on the display in the photo although it is always on. I pretty much have to squat down to line up perpendicular to the face to read what it says. Not something I've ever needed or wanted to do as part of using a table saw. Bad viewing angle.

It displays decimal inches or millimeters. No fractional readout. I like the potential of being accurate to 1/1000" but there is no practical way to calibrate it that finely. To set it to the blade you slide the fence up against the blade and hit the Zero button. With the standard blade guard in place you can't get the fence next to the blade. There is no micro adjusting of the fence, and any tap I give it moves it .005 or .004 or .007 but nothing consistent. I wanted to cut a strip of wood 1" plus another 1/64th (0.015625). Limited to thousandths I shot for 1.016. After 5 minutes of a left tap then a right tap etc.. I gave up. No whack I gave it would leave it right on 1.016. I finally just used the tape and slid the fence until the marker was "right between" the 1" mark and the 1/32" mark next to it. The part fit "perfect". 

It keeps track of where it is by reading how much it moves across a magnetic strip under the tape. It looses track though. I haven't used this saw much yet, but it seems like every time I do I've found the digital display is off track and needs to be re-zeroed. Not too hard if my blade guard is off. A pain in the arse if it is on though. 

The display rides the fence and stands higher than the saw table top. It blocks any potential use of the fence left of the blade. Not a serious loss, but I know I've had good reason to move the fence left of the blade in the past. It won't happen with this saw/display combo. 

I've looked into bending the bracket so the display is legible from my normal standing position. That would block the mounting screws and battery door though. The whole mount should be re-designed. 

My conclusion? Don't choose this saw for the digital readout. The frustration it'll induce far outweighs any advantage you'll get from using it. A technology not ready for prime time. JMHO.

4D


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*got another 100 bucks?*

This digital fence gauge seems to have a lower profile and better readout....
http://www.wixey.com/fence/index.html

Maybe someone here has one?









cheaper version by I Gaging:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

*Warning!*

If the saw hadn't come with it's own digital readout I'd be trying out the Wixey. The display is just one of my complaints with the general technology though, and from reading the Wixey manual it doesn't sound like they are any better when there is no micro-adjust built into the fence.

WARNING!
I found another flaw in the saw's design that should be re-engineered. The throat insert is split for the riving knife back from the blade slot making the left and right halves only attached for a small area at the front. I found the back edge flexing down as I pushed wood over it, making narrow strips of wood catch on the lip of the table cutout. _The support point is forward and to the side, and doesn't keep the insert from twisting at the back. _

Having the insert split this way makes it easy to install and remove from under the blade guard. That advantage gets dangerous when ripping narrow pieces that get stuck before getting past the blade. I don't think an insert without a split through the back CAN be installed or removed if the anti-kickback pawls are in place. Yet the plate must be removed to install or remove the pawls. Catch 22.

Laguna's hybrid will have the same problem as it uses the same throat plate.

I see a law suit on the horizon when a Baileigh/Laguna owner gets injured trying to reach over the spinning blade to lift up the part being cut. Are you reading this Baileigh?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

My saws the same way, If never reach over a spinning blade to lift a piece out.....if I can't push it through, ill shut the saw off and remove once its spun down.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> My saws the same way, If never reach over a spinning blade to lift a piece out.....if I can't push it through, ill shut the saw off and remove once its spun down.


On the Laguna the off switch is mounted on the fence rail. My Baileigh switch can't be turned off while still hanging on to wood in a spinning saw. Another design flaw, Baileigh!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm pretty sure your never going to be happy with that saw....you should see if they'll take it back.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*get one of these*



4DThinker said:


> On the Laguna the off switch is mounted on the fence rail. My Baileigh switch can't be turned off while still hanging on to wood in a spinning saw. Another design flaw, Baileigh!


http://www.grizzly.com/products/110V-Paddle-On-Off-Switch/H8241
If your saw doesn't have a Safety On/Off switch like this, you should get one. Mount it below the fence so your left knee or hip can bump it off. I have several and wouldn't be without them.








The ergonomics of tool design is just coming around. Trained observers... called product or industrial designers are having some influence in woodworking tool design now days. Engineers know how to make things that can be manufactured, but they don't always include the "human factor" in the process. At GM Design, where I worked as an ID we had a Human Factors Studio where we could influence the design by making controls easy to reach, read and operate. Observation at the point of use is a great tool to see what needs to be where in the operation of the machine. 

I just toured a metal fabrication factory yesterday and observed some of the press brake operators were able to operate the down stoke with a foot pedal. This allowed them to use one or both hands to locate the piece for the next bend. When I commented that doesn't keep their hands out of the way by a "safety lock out" the tour guide just pointed to the top of his head...that's why we hire only the brightest folks here.... it's one of the most dangerous machines we have. But I digress. The machine "should have" the switches were they can be best operated, especially in an emergency, not by reaching around or looking underneath to find it.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

You are exactly right, Woodnthings. My saw has that type of switch, but it is under the table top down by the blade height crank. Probably save the manufacturer a dollar or two on the cable it would have taken to extend it up to the fence bar. 

The break operators you mention should quit. I watched some "how they do it" show about a manufacturing factory that had either a sensor or physical cables linked to the worker's hands that kept the break from working until their hands were safely away.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> I'm pretty sure your never going to be happy with that saw....you should see if they'll take it back.


If this was a kitchen appliance or hand tool I'd have sent it back after discovering the first flaw.

I'm a problem solver by nature (and education) and don't mind figuring out how to solve each of these problems so long as a solution is out there to find. The saw cuts fine now that I have it aligned properly with an upgraded blade in it. The twisty throat plate is only a problem cutting narrow strips when I've removed the blade guard anyway, so this morning I spent making an "improved" throat plate that doesn't have the original problem from some 3/8" phenolic I bought just for this reason. It is intact behind the riving knife and can't flex like the original. I'll put the original back on for wider cuts with the blade guard in place. 

The digital readout isn't the only way to set the blade where I want it, and I can ignore it or take it off and forget it. I've already started ideating about how to redesign the mounting bracket to make the display angle adjustable though.

I can't move the safety switch easily, but might buy a second one to mount on the fence rail and simply plug the saw into it. 

Baileigh should market this saw as a "Do it yourself" kit. It certainly didn't come ready to assemble and use (safely). 

4D


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Ill agree the rails were a problem...but the rest I see as Rolls Royce taste on a Chevy budget. If you were looking for a flawless product, they exist, but they're 3k for a saw....

Glad your getting it to work how you'd like.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Ill agree the rails were a problem...but the rest I see as Rolls Royce taste on a Chevy budget. If you were looking for a flawless product, they exist, but they're 3k for a saw....


Even Chevys come ready to drive and usually have passed most safety standards. If I bought any new car no matter the price and it had as many flawed/poorly engineered/unsafe/etc. aspects the lemon laws would have kicked in and that company would be going out of business. This isn't the 60's or 70's any more. Any woodworker that is OK with such crap because he got a good price on it is contributing to a flawed ecosystem. 

I'm fortunate in that I can re-engineer most of the flawed aspects of Baileigh's Hybrid. No one should _*need*_ to be an engineer just because they paid $1400 for what they needed instead of $3000 for more tool than they needed. My recourse is to speak out about it. 

4D


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Your saw meets all LEGAL requirements, there are no safety standards that it doesn't meet (unless you can prove otherwise, in which case the FTC (I think thats the right place) would like to know). Now would the switch be better and safer elsewhere, sure, but 1. you saw where it was before ordering, and 2. its much like comparing a volvo and a chevy for safety. Both meet the legal requirements, but one is more expensive, and one will keep you alive in a crash much better. You can't buy a chevy and say.....well it should have been as safe as a volvo......you didn't pay for one. The LCD not being super visable.......they had to cut costs to meet a price point......so its a cheap lcd......virtually all of the issues you've had were issues that saved money.....to hit a price point. There's a reason that an open stand powermatic is 400 bucks more than yours....with less features. It is probably a far more refined saw, with less features and a higher price. 

I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for.....which may seem counter-intuitive if you looked at some of the stuff in my shop......but i'm also a believer that to make great pieces you don't need the top of the line stuff........


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I'm glad you are OK with spending $1400 for something you would have to fix and repair to work as advertised and meet a standard level of commonly expected performance. I'm not. What this tells me about Baileigh is that you can expect the same manufacturing errors, specification mistakes, missing (critical) info in the manual, improper pre-assembly, etc. in anything they sell no matter how much more they charge for it. 

Misaligned holes didn't save them any money. Putting the measurement tape on wrong didn't save them any money. Advertising a 2.5" dust port when it has a 4" dust port didn't save them any money. The digital display may be the cheapest one out there, but they included it nonetheless while Laguna charges the same for their (iidentical) saw without a digital readout. I propose that had my saw not suffered any of the mistakes I'm reporting here they would sell many more of them for far more money. They KNEW I'd be writing about it here and still sent me a pallet of flawed parts.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> . They KNEW I'd be writing about it here and still sent me a pallet of flawed parts.


Lol. I'm guessing they're regretting that business now.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> I'm glad you are OK with spending $1400 for something you would have to fix and repair to work as advertised and meet a standard level of commonly expected performance. I'm not. What this tells me about Baileigh is that you can expect the same manufacturing errors, specification mistakes, missing (critical) info in the manual, improper pre-assembly, etc. in anything they sell no matter how much more they charge for it.
> 
> Misaligned holes didn't save them any money. Putting the measurement tape on wrong didn't save them any money. Advertising a 2.5" dust port when it has a 4" dust port didn't save them any money. The digital display may be the cheapest one out there, but they included it nonetheless while Laguna charges the same for their (iidentical) saw without a digital readout. I propose that had my saw not suffered any of the mistakes I'm reporting here they would sell many more of them for far more money. They KNEW I'd be writing about it here and still sent me a pallet of flawed parts.


you are entirely within your right to voice your opinion about a product you purchased. stand up, customer centric companies are focused on their customers. 

but , hey, it could have been worse. you could have paid laguna more for the same saw with possibly the same defects and felt even worse with the higher price.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

4DThinker said:


> ... I propose that had my saw not suffered any of the mistakes I'm reporting here they would sell many more of them for far more money. They KNEW I'd be writing about it here and still sent me a pallet of flawed parts.


Agreed. That should help cut back sales to a more manageable number... :icon_rolleyes: :boat:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

A check of Baileigh's web site shows they at least have corrected the 2.5" dust port spec to read "4" dust collection port". Still no testimonials. I'm curious if a critical one would remain visible on their site.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the silence from Baileigh is deafening*

There could at least be a statement..."We are looking into the issues you have raised and will follow up with .... a correction or another statement." 
Baileigh needs to set up their own products just as a customer would who purchased one, and find out the flaws before they make them available for sale. Misaligned holes, awkward to reach switches, flimsy throat plates etc. should not be "permitted" if the quality control inspector is on the ball. 
Once this review is "out there" on the internet it's difficult to walk it back and I would have expected some "special treatment" to a member of this site after all the hoopla.... :yes:

Nary a word from Big Ben the contest winner either...


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

*digital precision musings.*

While the display angle on my fence gauge is horrible, I've been playing with it nonetheless. Any of the available digital fence readouts should have the same potential. 

I know my blade cuts a .1" kerf, and have a digital caliper to measure any piece of wood I might want to make a dado for. I've found I can "roll" my finger against the fence T to move it very small amounts, and within a few tries get it to a specific 1/1000ths settings. Some 1/4" baltic birch plywood I have measures .235" thick. I made one pass with the saw blade. Zeroed, then moved the fence .135 to the right, then cut the other side of the dado I wanted. Made one cleanout pass down the middle and had a perfect slip-fit dado for that plywood. Went through the same sequence with some 1/8" bb ply that measured .116": Cut first pass. Zero gauge. Move fence .016" for second pass. Perfect fit. 

The key is having a way to micro-move the fence. I'm working on a simple cam lever I can quick-clamp onto the fence rail next to the fence T. Rotate the cam lever around to push the fence slowly in one direction.

I can see great potential in "relative" positioning of the fence. A run of fingers or dovetail cuts that need to be a precise distance apart should be easy. I'll add more perspective after making a few more complicated joints. 

4D


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

4DThinker said:


> The key is having a way to micro-move the fence. I'm working on a simple cam lever I can quick-clamp onto the fence rail next to the fence T. Rotate the cam lever around to push the fence slowly in one direction.
> 
> I can see great potential in "relative" positioning of the fence. A run of fingers or dovetail cuts that need to be a precise distance apart should be easy. I'll add more perspective after making a few more complicated joints.
> 
> 4D


They have solved that issue with this:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16755&site=ROCKLER

I think it must be used on the right side of the fence, it may be in the path of the material on the left side.
But it will push the unlocked fence toward the left and toward the blade. I got one a while back, somehow or other it broke, I may have dropped it...I donno. I saved the powerful magnet to use as a stop for repeatable rips. 
You can make your own.... A 3/8" X 16 thread per inch bolt or rod will give you 1/16" movement per one revolution. For hundreds... a 1/4" X 20 thread will give .050" , 3/4" X 10 will give .10 per rev. :blink:

Incra has a fence positioner:
http://www.incrementaltools.com/LS_Positioner_Upgrades_s/56.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VOnIVCGRXXA


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I've been aware of Incra since they started. Way too much money for an over engineered design that steals some of your saw's cutting width in use. JMHO. Rocker's product is simple enough and would work for me if only my bar was steel/magnetic. It is extruded aluminum though. Neither bother with digital displays which is where I personally hope the industry ends up. I can see a 4" color touch screen display, a little power assist, and simply tapping in "+.135 Enter" to see the fence move that amount on it's own in the not-to-distant future. The tool industry just needs to catch up with the phone industry. I have an unused t-slot in the bottom of my front fence bar and might play with attaching my fine adjuster there. Slide it, lock it, swing it up to lever against some part of the fence. 

For what it is worth, I've been enjoying a drill press milling bed I made 20+ years ago using 3/8-16 all thread on two axis to give me easy 1/64th" for 1/4 turn accuracy. 128th" for 1/8 turn of either handle.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Craftsman had a digital table saw in the 90's that you could set depths and angles of the blade on......never caught on. I've seen them on craigslist from time to time.......


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Yep, Craftsman has tried mating electronics with tools for a long time now. I respect them for that, although the first electronic router we got from them was also the quickest to fail in our student furniture design shop. Seems like that was a couple of decades ago. Now many routers come with electronic speed and feedback control. We now have a drill press and a couple lathes that readout their rpms. Not very useful IMHO, and one more thing to shut down a lathe when it fails.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Found my digital readout looks great when a horizontal light is aimed at it. Now if only horizontal lights were common in a home shop. Looking into a battery powered book light to clip on it. It shoulda coulda had it's own back light.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Well, I've been enjoying digital accuracy so much I recommended my college shop add the Wixey digital tables saw readout to the SawStop we have. I made a little sample block, roughly 5" square from some cherry I had. Cut a row of dados for 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", and 3/4" baltic birch we use a lot of in the shop. Took all of five minutes, most of which was measuring the true thickness of each piece. Cut progressive samples of each to demonstrate the advantage of the digital accuracy.

The Forrest blade used to trim the cherry piece left jointer-smooth edges both with and across the grain. The plywood scraps were cut to length on my radial arm saw and you can see the blade marks easily on the 3/4" piece. I picked up a Freud blade with a flat tooth every 6th tooth to make flat bottom dados. It had .091" kerf width printed on it, but every way I measured it I got .096". It looks like it'll be nearly as good as the Forrest, and if so I'll prefer it for the flat bottom kerf it leaves.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Sounds like you picked up a Freud ATB/R combo blade. Just for clarification, in order for an ATB/R grind to be effective, the ATB teeth have to protrude slightly above the flat raker teeth, which leaves a slight groove along the edges....take a close look. It's not huge, and it's "flatter" than a straight ATB grind, but it's not truly flat. The only grind that will leave a true flat bottom is a flat top grind (FTG).


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*dados with a multiple kerfs?*

How did you make those? I assume, by making multiple kerfs in the block? :blink:


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I picked up the Freud LU83R010: http://www.freudtools.com/p-45-thin-kerf-combinationbr-nbsp.aspx

Their diagram shows no indication that the flat tooth is lower than the tips of the bevel teeth. The one little kerf cut I've made looks flat, although that is from a quick glance and not using a magnifying glass.

It also is quieter than the Forrest blade I was using, and didn't seem to resist as much when pushing cherry through it.


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

Is the Forrest a regular Kerf? If so, that would explain it.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> How did you make those? I assume, by making multiple kerfs in the block? :blink:


One cut, 
zero out the gauge, 
move the fence the plywood width-blade kerf width, 
make second pass. 

If the dado is wider than two x the blade kerf I simply clean out the center by moving the fence roughly 1/2 the blade width in steps until clean.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

rbk123 said:


> Is the Forrest a regular Kerf? If so, that would explain it.


The Forrest blade was used to make the dado sample above, and it has a regular (for Forrest) every-other-tooth angled opposite directions.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

4DThinker said:


> I picked up the Freud LU83R010: http://www.freudtools.com/p-45-thin-kerf-combinationbr-nbsp.aspx
> 
> ...It also is quieter than the Forrest blade I was using, and didn't seem to resist as much when pushing cherry through it.





rbk123 said:


> Is the Forrest a regular Kerf? If so, that would explain it.


I suspect what rbk123 is getting at is that if the Forrest is a 1/8" full kerf blade vs a 3/32" thin kerf blade, the width difference could likely explain both the additional wind noise and any additional resistance. It's only a difference of 1/32" of inch, but a 1/8" full kerf blade is 33% wider than a 3/32" TK blade....if all else is equal, more width = more wind noise and more resistance....more saw dust too!


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

4DThinker said:


> The Forrest blade was used to make the dado sample above, and it has a regular (for Forrest) every-other-tooth angled opposite directions.


I was referring to the Freud being quieter and easier to push through vs. the Forrest. Freud being a thin-kerf would explain both (if the Forrest is a regular kerf).

Edit: I see Scott beat me to it.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

My Forrest blade cut a .1" kerf. The Freud blade cut a .096" kerf. Only .004 difference between them. I haven't done but one cut using the Freud (to measure the kerf) and my instant take was that it was slightly easier to push the block through it than it was to push that same block through the Forrest. Nothing scientific here, and the difference might have been simply the time of day I made each cut.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

4DThinker said:


> My Forrest blade cut a .1" kerf. The Freud blade cut a .096" kerf. Only .004 difference between them. I haven't done but one cut using the Freud (to measure the kerf) and my instant take was that it was slightly easier to push the block through it than it was to push that same block through the Forrest. Nothing scientific here, and the difference might have been simply the time of day I made each cut.


Sounds like your Forrest blade is also a 3/32" thin kerf. Are both new?


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

My Freud arrived tuesday. I've had the Forrest since August 14. Both are thin kerf as was the original blade that came with the saw. The Forrest doesn't have what it is supposed to be on the blade or box it came in, but I ordered it as a thin kerf to be within the range that the riving knife specifies on it's side.


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## Lumbermeister (Jan 1, 2013)

Fascinating post to read - This is more like a live-blog for a new acquaintance with a saw and company that few have experienced personally. Many thanks, 4DThinker.

Thinking of future purchases, it might be wise to not purchase any equipment whose owners' manual is not either posted on the web or otherwise readily obtainable. So much can be ascertained by a reading of this in advance of purchase; from ease of assembly to, well, likely a picture showing the size and description of the dust port.

Very impressive, 4D,the extension and outfeed tables that you crafted for your new saw. With your obvious mechanical ability, it is perplexing that you chose this unit based on the size of the dust port (you have already shown your ability to craft an adapter) and the prewire of 110V (check the grizzly hybrid manual for instructions re converting its prewired 220V to 110V - it is a piece of cake). You seem like a guy who can make any reasonably good product work, and who can safely base his purchase on the outstanding features, rather than those mundane items that might save you a little up-front work

In the end, no doubt, you will end up with a fine product. My Ridgid 4512 (I am happy with it - though I cannot not compare it to your class of saw) and I wish you many happy blade revolutions on your new unit. Please continue to keep us informed.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks, Lumbermeister. I've been teaching furniture design for 30+years now, and given how varied the ideas from creative design students can be have practiced problem solving over and over and over again. I'll peg my aptitude at 50% engineering and 50% architecture. I'll throw in that most of what I intuitively "know" now was learned from a mistake I made some time in the last 30 years. 

I am pleased with the saw now that I've solved 95% of the problems it came with. I am known as "the router guy" among the furniture design professors I work with, and my old saw (Craftsman 8" ) never encouraged me to consider it as a similarly useful tool. The web and growing array of shows about woodworking have gotten very creative with applications/jigs for the table saw though, so updating my saw was in part to start exploring the more creative things that one can be used for beyond simple ripping. The accuracy provided by the digital readout appeals to the engineering side of my brain. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Working on a box joint jig. Very impressed with the Freud blade cutting 3/4" baltic birch plywood. No chip-out of the top veneer on cuts across or with the face grain. Smooth faces left both directions. I'll attribute some of this to the zero clearance insert. Never had such nice results with my old 8" Craftsman and a zci. 

I believe I've figured out how to make a jig that'll cut fingers wider than the blade width. Front face with alignment pin will slide relative to the face behind it. Lever to slide it left or right. Make the first cut finger gap from the pin. Lever over to the other side for the other face. Then move the lever in steps back to the other side as the blade cleans out the middle. Stops on the lever to make sure it puts the blade exactly where it needs to be at both limits. I'll post photos when I have it done and tested.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*outside the box*

Why not just get another similar Freud blade... as a spare and to double up side by side with or without a spacer if needed, for making narrow dados, instead of one pass at a time. My Freud box joint set has right and left side blades, 8" diameter and will make 1/4" or a 3/8" finger.

I think makes multiple passes to get one space will get real old after about 10 spaces...I donno?


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Not a bad suggestion, Woodnthings. I have two shops I design for, and this jig will end up at the university. I'll prove the concept at home first though. Using my digital gauge I can dial it in for a slip fit with just enough room for glue. 

At the university shop I teach in, we never change out the blade for a dado setup. With three sections of each class, and so many students using the saw the time to set up for dados and then put the regular blade back on ties up the saw for too long. With the jig I'm making 1/4" fingers shouldn't take more than a few seconds each. Last Friday in class I had at least one student waiting on the saw while another used it for most of the 3 hour class. The only table saw we let them use on their own is the single SawStop we have. A 7hp Powermatic is the only other table saw, and only the professors use it. After another professor had a powermatic kickback break his wrist over the summer, students don't complain that they can't use that saw. 

I bought a dado set for my Baileigh, and have the time to change to it when I need to. The challenge of the jig is so we can show students more than one way to make box joints without having to change to a dado set. Right now a line will form at the router table when we are using a shop-made jig to cut fingers there. The two other router tables are usually busy all period as well.

In addition, anyone that doesn't want to spend for a dado set or has a saw that doesn't have room for one, should be able to copy my jig to make box joints with just the regular blade.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

After reading all this crap about this saw, I want to go out to my shop and hug my 60+ year old Unisaw. Not as described, parts that don't fit, parts that seem to be used parts, crappy instructions, etc. 
I guess you can't just start a company, and order a bunch of machines, with your name on them, from chiwan, and expect to just ship them and not have problems.
I expect a machine to be as described, and have the parts fit, without modifications. Guess I'm showing my age here.
I would have got the nail gun out and recrated it and have them pick it up.
Wonder how much they saved by having 3 instead of 4 bolts holding the top on!

I wish you the best luck with it, and hope you enjoy using it.
I like having a machine, that when I use it, I think, wow, this is a great machine!
Nothing worse than spending a bunch of money on something, then realizing, it's a pos.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Pirate said:


> ... I expect a machine to be as described, and have the parts fit, without modifications. Guess I'm showing my age here.
> I would have got the nail gun out and recrated it and have them pick it up.
> Wonder how much they saved by having 3 instead of 4 bolts holding the top on!
> 
> ...


I may be the same age as you, Pirate. If I hadn't had to destroy the crate to get to the saw I may well have sent it back too. Now that I've worked out most of the flaws though the saw is a delight compared to what I had before. That 40+ year old 8" Craftsman previously belonged to an uncle that had taught woodworking most of his working years. It came with a great user manual though (which I still had) but needed a new belt, blade, and serious alignment/tune-up when I got it. Of course it was at most $100 for the saw and several other hand tools and I expected it to need some work.

As for the 3 bolts holding the top onto the cabinet I'm guessing they saved 25% on bolts. The top stays on though, so maybe every saw that uses 4 or more is overbuilt.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

As far as the slots in the outfeed table, I never have felt the need to be able to fill them in. What say others?

A paddle switch, that is positioned so you can turn it off, with your thigh, is a great safety, and convenience feature. I have a shop made one on my Unisaw, and I find myself turning the saw off after the cut, with out thinking about. It's like automatic. As I reach for the piece that has passed the blade, to pick it up, my leg shuts the saw off. It's also a slight time saver.
It's nice making a stopped cut, and you want to keep the work from moving, until the blade stops. You can keep both hands on the work, and still turn off the saw.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Moving the switch is the last thing on my list of things to fix. Right before that is the mis-aligned hole on the rear fence support. 

There is an unused t-slot on the bottom of the fence bar I should be able to use to hang the switch from. 
For the bolt, I've decided I can drill a new hole through both the support and the cast wing easier than trying to egg open the hole in the support to get a bolt through it and the wing. 

I spent some time this morning testing my box joint jig with the saw. The Freud blade does a nice job, and does cut a flat bottom in the finger slots.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

As for filling the outfeed slot extensions, the best reason is simply to keep debris from filling them. Didn't take much effort, and as I use the outfeed table as workspace having no interruptions in the surface leaves it easier to sweep off.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I've convinced my department to invest in the Wixey table saw fence gauge. It should be interesting to see how it enhances/increases what we cut on the SawStop it'll be installed on. Over my teaching career I've had to manually bump/guess/test/bump fences several thousand times to get to a "good enough" fit on this tenon or that dado. Since having the digital readout on my Baileigh that process has been simple and nearly fun. My old eyes aren't as confident as they used to be, and letting the students tell me when they think the blade is aligned only works some of the time. 

4D


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

A while ago, I mounted my dial indicator, on a piece of wood, to be clamped on the fence rail, for positioning the fence. Played with, then never used it again. Just, Bump, bump, works fine for my work.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

If all I had to worry about was my own work then bump, bump would be fine as well. I've been surprising my students for a few decades with my accuracy, and that was long before anything digital showed up in the shop. In a typical class I might have 10 students each planing their rough boards to 5/8", and then needing to cut dados for 10 unique board thicknesses. One or two cranks difference at the planer makes enough difference to ruin the value of any "standard" dado setup. Being able to quickly move to whatever each mics their board at should help there. With a couple of CNC's now available to the students they are getting used to very accurate fits, but will still need saw cut parts/steps in the mix. We may be on the way to obsoleting the analogue tape measure. Of five I have in my home shop only one agrees with my digital gauge anyway. Getting rid of them could be a good thing.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I just ordered this one ...on sale!*

http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v424-0160/new_products

The 35" for table saws, at $49.95 + shipping. :thumbsup: 
I'll see how it works an let you all know.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v424-0160/new_products
> 
> The 35" for table saws, at $49.95 + shipping. :thumbsup:
> I'll see how it works and let you all know.


Looks like a good deal, Woodnthings. I may pick up their short one for my personal router table. Just need to figure out how it mounts.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

How's that saw doing by the way??


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> How's that saw doing by the way??


After solving all the original flaws, getting it tuned and a new blade on it, and adding the Kreg Precision miter Gauge to it I am truly enjoying it. Used it to build a scrap cart I designed out of scraps I had laying around. My main job is teaching furniture design at college level and those courses are very active right now. That drains me pretty well so I haven't had been playing in my own shop much. T-day and Christmas breaks are coming up so I'll have some free time to play. 

Thanks for asking.
4D


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Yesterday the temp got down below -10 degree, A little warmer today (barely) in my unheated garage shop so I went to use my Baileigh hybrid saw. The power switch refused to stay on. If I held it in the saw would run, but the ON button wouldn't stick. When I released it I could hear a hum as if a relay/magnet was trying but couldn't engage. Left it unplugged and am waiting for warmer weather. Nothing else in my shop refuses to start in this cold. 

Anyone else had problems with extreme cold affecting a power switch? Do I have a failed switch that isn't likely to work even when the temps get back into the 50+ degrees range?

4D


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Put a 60 watt light bulb near the switch*

The heat from a light bulb will warm up the switch sufficiently to make it work .... not not? Worth a try while you are waiting for Spring... just sayin'


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Alas, I've swapped out every hot bulb in my house/shop with cold LED versions. I do have a small electric heater I can run for awhile though. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Warmer weather did no good. Switch went bad. I ordered a replacement from Amazon which should be here today. Hoping it is a plug and play replacement.

4D


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

New switch did the trick. Less than $10 including Amazon Prime 2-day shipping.

Thinking back, I believe the old switch had been failing gradually, as within the last few month the saw would (occasionally) take two or three presses of the switch before it would "stick" on. 

4D


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

4DThinker said:


> Your point is valid, Ryan. When I know a product will take 3 weeks to get to me I wait patiently. Yesterday a rep told me he would check on my order and try to make sure it went out then. Their order page has no indication of when things will ship, and when I see that I expect shipment within a day or two. The rep mentioned that 72 hours is their company stated (elsewhere on their site) goal for shipments, and that my complaint will lead to them adding that info on the order pages somewhere. A message to Shane here about "did it ship?" has not been answered, so I'm concluding it didn't go out yesterday.
> 
> They might still put it on a truck this afternoon. If they can't get one out the door until next week then at least they should let me know that.



You sound like me, I will study my buying options carefully, but when I decide to trip the trigger on one, I want it now LOL

I have some Baliegh sheet metal equipment and am very satisfied with it, very well built


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