# Thornless Honey Locust???? or elm family????



## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

We're in a discussion as to what we have here....being winter and no leaves and also so many varieties of trees in same area we can't just look at the leaves on the ground around them. From the initial log saw cut it favors a thornless honey locust (I think I seen 5-6 varieties of locust on the net) in color. It splits straight and clean unlike elm but with nothing to compare lumber to we don't know????? I've taken some pics of bark and treetops..The tops favor a sassafras and locust growth. The bark is not like either plain honey locust nor most elms around my area.

Here's some pics...I know it's tough by pics as to color correct and shadow/depth details arent always seen right.


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## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

Well the locusts here are somewhat thornless. As they grow the young trees have small ~1/2" long thorns in the first years of growth and then as the tree ages they disappear. You might check the area you got the tree from and look for some small 2"ish trees and see if they have thorns. If there's small ones, there's likely bigger trees as well.
The thorns will cut you up bad so don't be grabbing on the trees to support yourself when you walk.

Locust here is considered good for firewood and posts that won't easily rot. My farmhouse is on locust posts, and was built in 1909. Only a few are showing deterioration. It's also hard as nails.Not so desirable for furniture wood. Hard or harder than oak.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Hardness is at different levels in locust....in the black locust family after laying around it'd be hard as nails and I've seen sparks fly when sawing up for firewood. The honey's are milder but still tough. I've seen some furniture made with locustes (both species). From what I've read on the honey is IF it would be a market wood IF it grew in large amounts..... it favors oak....

Thorns are a pain on the ones that have them. I think the smaller version you mentioned is probably black...they don't disappear, they just stay in the upper smaller growth tops....HADES on tractor tires when small :furious: 

Make sure you have good extermination done....ANY wood to ground contact IS a future pathway for termites....YEP I've seen the locust hold up to the elements BUT all those pesky little critters want is a Moisture source and a place for a pathway....they'll just cross the locust to get food!!!


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## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

Bugs were attacked and are killed off. Not by me, but in the past.
THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP!

Yeah this stuff is 3rd growth black locust in my yard. Under the house, I imagine it was a whole different animal in the past.


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## georger (Dec 3, 2014)

I have a couple locusts of some sort in front of my house, large bean pods, yet the crowns are much fuller, the bark much flakier no thorns that I could see. 

than again it depends of its environment most trees in the open tend to spread, your pics snow straight up trunks with leafing twigs way at the top that may be part of it growing in the woods fighting for sunlight, there is a large one next door, huge tree on the corner yet I can reach its leafs in the summer.

it doesn't look much like elm either, in my area elm bark tends to peel in long strips, I confused a trunk for oak last fall peeled it for tannin, almost looked like a real thick very tough paper inner bark, with the outer brown dried bark glued to it like an art project. that's in Michigan, bit further north and there are no 2 trees alike, I have a hard time labeling trees and am not that experienced anyway hope this gives you a hint


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## Tom the Sawyer (Sep 4, 2012)

Large bean pods and no thorns... could be Kentucky Coffee Tree although if there was a location in your profile it might be easier to figure which species would be local to you.


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## georger (Dec 3, 2014)

Tom the Sawyer said:


> Large bean pods and no thorns... could be Kentucky Coffee Tree although if there was a location in your profile it might be easier to figure which species would be local to you.


the one I was referring to, the bean pods are very long, at least 12 inches, about 2-3 inches wide, they have I'll say at least a dozen beans, some books I looked at showed Kentucky coffee tree having short bean pods with 2 seeds, but no description so I am assuming.

I'm in south east Michigan, thou this is a suburb tree, so likely planted, its a corner tree, that could also explain its different appearance as it grew in the open, this one is huge, there is also a smaller one 2 houses down very similar in appearance, much smaller no bean pods, wonder if its just younger and not mature yet or these are the kind with either male or female plant.

I'll post some pics when I have a chance


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## Tom the Sawyer (Sep 4, 2012)

Really long bean pod might be catalpa, although down here the pods are about 1.5" wide. KCT does have shorter pods, and wider than locust. I understand you don't currently have any leaves but if there are any twigs left, catalpa buds are opposite each other on the twig, usually three buds in a group.


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## Post Oakie (Aug 20, 2013)

Hard to say. A close-up of a twig with a terminal bud would settle the question. The form of the tree certainly favors honeylocust. Here's a web site that is great for identifying wood. http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/

Looking at the end grain under a magnifier is the best way to identify a piece of wood.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Sorry I forgot to post.... I got a friend to go out and look at the surrounding matching trees and we determined it's thornless honeyloust.

I've gotten one more since posting AND a dead walnut upper cut/crotch about 6' in length.


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