# New Blade For 15 Inch Disston Countryside?



## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi there, Everyone:

Picked up a Disston countryside 15 inch saw for $5 at a garage sale this morning, based on the suggestion of our own knottscott.

I tried crosscutting a 2 X 3 dried doug fir stud, and as Humphrey Bogart once said when he met a person who did impressions of him, "One of us stinks."

Blade looks pretty straight, no missing teeth, it LOOKS sharp (I have no idea _how_ to "test for sharpness" - aside from letting my six year old son play with it and timing exactly how long it takes for him to hurt himself).

do I need to find a new blade for it? Do I need to sharpen it? Do I need to know what I am doing? 

Muchos Gracias por adelantado.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Post some pictures if you can - including some close up shots of the teeth. If I were to guess, a good sharpening would probably correct your problems.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

thanks for the suggestion. Will try to do that.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

You do not mention how many teeth per inch.

Two considerations for how well a saw will cut
a) How sharp are the teeth
b) How much "set" in the teeth. This is the slight bending of the teeth to one side so that the kerf is wider than the blade.

I just gave away an old Stanley. Too many teeth per inch. Did not cut as well as my later Stanley which has fewer teeth, each tooth is perhaps twice the height of the other Stanley.

So a number of factors impact performance, not just "sharpness".


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks, Dave, for the clarification.

I will try and get some pics of it tomorrow or, more likely, on Monday.

Thanks again.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

This is a photo of the same saw as my saw:










It's in about the same condition as the one in the picture.

I saw a larger one for $10 but can't remember which model it was.

Maybe it wasn't really meant for real world use...

http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=15498&submit_thread=1


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Your saw has the small and many teeth of my first Stanley, which I found was a lot of work to cut anything.

I put this on a "Free" table yesterday and it is now gone. Some Rat-bag even stole the table.

This is my later Stanley, with aggressive tooth pattern. This saw cuts fast and easily. It is designed for cutting, not for leaving a smooth finish.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you, Dave:

Ok, so is it fair to say that the current blade on my saw is made for fine cuts in SMALL pieces of soft wood trim?

So I should use it for, say, tenon shoulder cuts on smaller stock? (I also have closet poles - 1-1/4 inch thick - that I might need to make "shoulder" cuts in).

Or would a coping saw be better for tenon shoulder cuts on small stock like 1 X 2?

If so, that is fine. I can look for another hand saw with a more aggressive blade for more aggressive cutting. However, it is hard to find Japanese Saws / pull saws at garage sales / flea markets.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Wood4Brains said:


> Thank you, Dave:
> 
> Ok, so is it fair to say that the current blade on my saw is made for fine cuts in SMALL pieces of soft wood trim?
> 
> ...


Yes your present blade looks more like a crosscut blade.

My blade is more aggressive.

The problem with a coping saw is that the blades are so thin they flex. The flexing is good for cutting curves, but not desired when you want a flat cut such as a tenon.

A tenon saw has a reinforced back to steady the blade, keeps it straight when cutting. 
The Lee Valley site has good information. I know you will say the saw if out of your price range, but the link is for the technical information.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=66066&cat=1,42884,68511&ap=1

I have one japanese style pull saw. I do not find it easy to use. Must be the muscle memory of always pushing to cut.

The saw which is the easier for me to use is my Lee Valley crosscut saw, similar to the one in the link.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Good morning. The Diston you have is a panel saw, it's intended to be used on thin sheet type goods. Whether it's a rip or cc is tough to say from the pictures.

The saw plate Dave showed you is a westernized Japanese style tooth. It cuts on the pull and push stroke for quick cutting. The only real down side to that is both sides of the material being cut can tear out a bit.


If you want to cut tenons or joinery in general look for a "backsaw". 10-12 tpi is a good mid ground for joinery but can also be used on finer work if needed such as box joints and dovetails.

Good luck!


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

*@ Dave Paine*

Thanks so much for the link! I had been searching around for something that would clearly explain the differences between Rip and Crosscut blades, and the page you linked to does that.

Thanks again for all your help!!!


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

*@ Tom / firemedic*

Thanks for the explanation:



> ...it's intended to be used on thin sheet type goods.


Can I ask what you mean by "thin"? About how thick of a sheet could one cut (in general) with a saw like this?

Also, thanks for this explanation:



> If you want to cut tenons or joinery in general look for a "backsaw". 10-12 tpi is a good mid ground for joinery but can also be used on finer work if needed such as box joints and dovetails.


One thing that I have noticed is that when searching for backsaws, they will often be listed as a Miter saw, *OR* as a Tenon saw, *OR* as a Dovetail saw. Is there any real difference? Or are they all the same?

Thanks in advance.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wood4Brains said:


> @ Tom / firemedic
> 
> Can I ask what you mean by "thin"? About how thick of a sheet could one cut (in general) with a saw like this?


I'm talking about plywood like 1/4-3/4" and wood panels (like rail & stile panels) of the same thicknesses. The saw was designed prior to main stream plywood and either rip or cc panel saws do fine in ply (alternating grain) but I find a cc to cut more cleanly.





Wood4Brains said:


> One thing that I have noticed is that when searching for backsaws, they will often be listed as a Miter saw, OR as a Tenon saw, OR as a Dovetail saw. Is there any real difference? Or are they all the same?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Just as a Bailey #4-1/2 and a Bailey #8 are both "bench planes" with very different tasks - dovetail saws, miter saws and tenon saws are all "backsaws" with different tasks. All are a type of saw... A thin and flexible saw plate set into a rigid spine or "back" for stiffness.

A dovetail saw has a thiner plate and less set for straighter finer cuts and has a rip tooth patern. A miter saw has a thicker plate, higher set and a cc tooth as well as being a larger saw. The job dictates the correct type of back saw or saw in general to use. I recommended 10-12" tenon style saws in my previous post because they are the middle ground, the jack plane if you will, of joinery saws and can do other tasks just not as well as a dedicated saw. You can add job specific saws in the future as need/use dictates.

That help?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I suppose I failed to answer your question


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi ya, Tom:

Thanks for the detailed answer.



> I suppose I failed to answer your question.


Not at all. It's just that it is taking me a bit of time to digest it all.

You referenced a few things that I am still trying to grasp (like "set" "plate" the differences between a rip and cc pattern, "rail and stile" etc.,), and I just wanted to research them so I could better understand the examples you were making. 

Plus I am trying to research all the other basics that most people on this site take for granted. This is all tough sledding for me. 

and thanks so much in particular for the detailed explanation about the differences between the various backsaws. It really does help. 

I guess I am a bit dismayed by all the marketing hype about "do it all" saws, or when a saw says it is designed for multiple purposes. Your explanation clearly stated the differences, and I wish that manufacturers would take the time to explain this as clearly as you did on their packaging (or on their web sites).

They must spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on marketing, and if they just made it a little more clearer for us to understand what the differences are, I don't think they would have to result to so much advertising. I mean, we aren't sheep, are we?

Thanks again.

BTW: Now I need to go figure out what a jack plane is and whether I need to get one. I don't have ANY plane. No fair dropping tool names for a guy with no money going through his tool lust phase.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Trust me, it can take a while to get comfortable with it.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Plate - blade

Kerf - material removed by the saw

Set - distance each tooth is bent out to the side. Allows for relief to make the kerf wider than the plate and prevent binding.

Gullet - valley between teeth.

Pitch - number of teeth, expressed as tpi or ppi

TPI- Teeth per Inch, measure from gullet to gullet

PPI - Points per Inch, measured from point to point


Rip Vs Cross Cut is best explains by seeing each tooth pattern. In all though it's a chisel (rip) Vs a knife (cc). Google can provide detailed illustrations of this.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Rail and Stile is a construction style of raised panel doors. It's the standard for doors. 

Jack plane is the jack of all - the 14" bench plane such as the Stanley/Bailey #5. 

I very rarely fire up a power tool in my shop (have em all, don't use em) so for me, planes are a must. I couldn't tell you right off how many I have. Frankly I could go count them but I don't recall how many new (vintage) ones I have arriving this week. Each has a specific purpose and use for me even if not used often. If you decide to buy a plane I'd suggest a jack plane and a block plane first in no particular order. Also, I'd put chisels just barely ahead of planes in the rank of "need" for me. Try the search function here questions about first planes and beginner chisels come up weekly.

Good luck.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you again!!! :smile:

Yes, it seems that people either love or hate planes, and those that love them, really, REALLY love them.

I was talking to my dad on the phone (he lives 500 miles away) to see if he had any old tools he could send my way. He was kind of like, "well, I have some junk lying around... but I have this great plane I can give you!!!"

I asked him some questions about it, and it turns out, he _HAS NO IDEA_ what type of a plane it is... just that it is a _GREAT_ plane!!!. 

I suspect it will need so much "clean up" when it arrives that I will have to take it down to the archeology department at the local university and see if they will be able to excavate the plane from whatever might be covering it. :huh:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Wood4Brains said:


> Thank you again!!! :smile:
> 
> Yes, it seems that people either love or hate planes, and those that love them, really, REALLY love them.
> 
> ...


I am not surprised that your father does not know what type/model of plane. Many hobbyists do not know. I was in that group for many decades.

Around 2003, I walked into a Woodworkers Warehouse store (since went bankrupt sorry to say) and said "I want to buy a hand plane, which one should I get". The person was very honest and admitted not knowing anything about hand planes. I ended up buying a #5 Record plane. The Record company was shut down when Marples was purchased by Rubbermaid.

A couple of years ago I replaced the Record's blade with a Ron Hock blade, what a big difference in performance.

Over time I began to appreciate how much a hand tool can help in making something.

When it comes to hand planes, it takes time to appreciate the different types and which tasks they are designed for.

I am at risk of becoming a plane-aholic. Not there yet, but I have to work on self control everytime Lee Valley comes out with new planes.

If your fathers plane was kept indoors, fingers crossed it will be just dusty or grimy.

The grime cleans off easily with e.g., simple green. Rust is removed by Evapo-Rust or electrolysis. For examples of either search on the site.

Also do a search on the site for threads on sharpening.

Post the pictures when you get the plane if you need assistance in identification.

A sharp plane, a piece of softwood and the act of generating the soft fluffy shavings can be therapy in itself. You will soon experience for yourself.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Watch it turn out to be a Stanley #1-1/2C or a prototype Norris Infill Jointer :laughing:

edit... cleaned off one of the benches this morn before shift to make room for a project... Threw all the planes within site off to the side for a picture :yes:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Watch it turn out to be a Stanley #1-1/2C or a prototype Norris Infill Jointer :laughing:
> 
> edit... cleaned off one of the benches this morn before shift to make room for a project... Threw all the planes within site off to the side for a picture :yes:


Thanks for the picture. Makes me appreciate that I am not yet a plane-aholic. :laughing:

Nice rack of planes. :thumbsup:


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Wow! That is a LOT of Planes.

Again, Tom, thanks so much for the detailed explanation.

I will let you know. I am not sure when it will arrive, unfortunately. My sister will be driving down to see my folks (she lives halfway between us), and I will have to wait and hope that she brings it to me whenever she is in my neck of the woods on business (usually once every two to three months).

In the meantime, I have garage sales to go to...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Happy garage sale'n!


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

> Happy garage sale'n!


thanks, but I am starting to get the feeling that I was *NOT* meant to be a woodworker.

Last night I stayed up until 2:00 am planning out my garage sale attack strategy for the weekend.

Went to one this morning and of course, I did not print out a map, and my cell phone doesn't have coverage in the area where the garage sale was, so I ended up getting lost and driving around trying to find a place where there was cell coverage so i could look it up on google maps. :furious:

So even though I got there just 10 minutes after it started, I was just in time to watch the owner of the garage sale put up a "sold" sign on a Makita 14 inch miter saw - the one item I really wanted - which sold for $45

Crap! 

Oh well, I did pick up a Craftsman dowel Jig model 9 4186 for only $5. (there is a thread in the power tools section I just started about this).


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Just an update on the plane situation...

Turns out my dad _*can't find*_ the plane he wanted to give me... He suspects my brother, who used to live with him, took it. :furious:

So instead of tools, my dad is sending me... ummm... bicycle parts!?!?!? :huh:

Gee, thanks dad... I guess I could try using a gear sprocket as a blade in my circular saw...:blink:

I know what you all are probably thinking right now: "Wow! Your brother is a woodworker? What a great resource!"

Well, it might be, if i weren't for the fact that 1) We aren't on speaking terms, and 2) as hard to believe as it may be, he is probably a WORSE woodworker than I. 

Don't believe me? How's this: He decided to add crown molding to our parents house. Unfortunately, where the edges of the molding where it is beveled stop RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WALL - and NOT in the corners. 

I kid you not. In the corners, they butt together square with no bevel / miter, and in the middle, where one piece ends and another begins, they are beveled. 

You might be starting to understand why he and I are not on speaking terms...

~~~~~

BTW: I really need to say thanks to a couple of people on this forum who are helping me out in building my tool collection. You know who you are, and it means a lot to me. :smile: :smile: :smile:


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