# Black walnut Slab finishing



## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Hello all novice finisher here looking for opinions and advice. 

Ok I just got a black walnut slab (see pic). Dimensions are 11ft x 15 inx2in. Will be used as pony wall top/bar top separating 2rooms and rear bartop type setup in theatre. The piece is air dried for what I’m told to be a little over 1.5 yrs and I got it planed down to what your seeing. Currently acclimating to room on sticks for another 2weeks

Ok on to what I want I’m here for I want to accentuate the grain/color difference. Not looking to stain whatsoever in fact not looking to darken If possible. I think my final protective coat will be Minwax wipe on Polly in satin. I’m not a fan of the gloss/plastic look. I want to shiw off the peice it is not cover it. Why I’m here or what I’m leaning towards based off of research is shellac 4 costs followed by Polly I don’t have a sprayer so it will be brush or wipe on. I do have my concerns with shellac as far as fast dry and brush on. 

I’m open to any opinion. All I ask is give me the details as far as schedule sanding etc. as like I stated I’m a novice but want to do this right. 

Lastly I will be removing the bark sanding to 200 on sides. And thinking probably start the process with sanding to 300 on top. Before starting the finishing. And for what it’s worth that picture has rain on at the time. 

Thanks


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## Icemaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Damn that's a nice slab. 

The black walnut I've been working with has topped out buttery smooth at either 200 or 220 at a final sanding working up from 80 on a random orbit and palm. That's a pretty good sized piece to get a consistent wet edge if you go with shellac, but I'm not the finish expert. The Minwax clear poly, to me, let plenty of detail come through and didn't darken, just highlighted. I think a lot of that has to do with the wood itself.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Welcome to the forum! When you get a minute go ahead and complete your profile with first name and location - that helps us to help you. I don't use poly finishes so can't help you much there. And yes, that is a very nice looking slab! Can't wait to see it finished. 

David


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Thank you yes I got luck with it You are correct with the schellac and wet edge that is my big concern. But again just research online, people speak to the beauty and depth shellac offers and that’s exactly what I’m looking for So I guess you can say I’m kind of torn on how to proceed good thing is I have a couple of weeks to figure it out


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## Icemaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Any scraps you could run a sample on? 

This is a BW table from salvaged boards, 4 coats of clear poly. It's a personal thing ultimately, but this might give you an idea of how that finishes up.


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Yes I will have about 1ft square scrap after I cut it down to fit. So I have 2opportunities to test.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 31, 2018)

Is it dry enough ? I have been turning wood that has been cut for 4 years and when done I bring the bowls, etc into the house and it cracks. The moisture meter says anywhere from 9 to 20 % moisture and thats after 4 YEARS on the woodpile. OH yes, its a covered ( roof ) shed. Being 2" thick I wonder if its dry enough. Would be a shame to crack that beautiful piece of Walnut.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

18 months drying time may not be enough drying time for that slab. It would be helpful if you had a moisture content meter to check it before using the slab. 

An oil based poly should be sufficient to bring out the grain on walnut. It works better if you do the finish with gloss poly using the satin for the last coat. A satin finish has a flatting compound in it that looks like baby powder when dry. It can cloud the finish with multiple coats. Gloss is clear. 

Shellac as a finish is not very water resistant. It also can be very frustrating to try to brush it on especially with that large of a surface. Shellac dries so fast it tends to dry up in balls on the brush and drag in the finish. Then since the alcohol in the finish will dissolve a dried finish if you don't apply it really fast you can take off as much finish as you apply. It's something that really needs to be sprayed. 

To prevent warpage it is recommended you finish the underside as well. Walnut is also traditionally grain filled so you don't see the texture of the wood in the finish. You might do the underside first to see if you like that appearance before you do the face side.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

I don't have time to get into a deeper post this a.m. .......BUT....my concern is the actual MC of this slab AND showing a picture of it in the rain doesn't help my concerns on how this slab has been handled. I personally wouldn't want a slab "dried" to be exposed to that much water. IT WILL require some special re drying just to prevent additional warpage.

I'll try to address additional thoughts and questions tonight. YES I'm peculiar on MC and wood......Weeeelllll....look at all the warpage threads that get addressed.....probably 50/50 between incorrrect MC starting and incorrect joinery with a small portion actually being due to incorrect finishing ( like one side and not the other) MC as the rain photo will do the same but more IF not correctly redried!!!


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Ok guys I’d like to hear more about mc and drying. I guess I’ll have to buy a reader as I said I want to do this right. Please inform me of the moisture concerns what I can do to help it etc. 

Aside from that please continue to talk to me about finishing.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 31, 2018)

Moisture content Wood Furniture
Illustration by James Provost.
When a piece of lumber is cut from a tree it is referred to as 'green'. At this point the wood is very wet and is completely unsuitable for making furniture. It needs to be dried – by air or kiln – to approximately 10% moisture content.


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Thanks wild yes I understand wet wood trying to get an idea of what % it needs to be under prior to finishing. Curious about the special drying techniques since it did get rained on and more if less how to proceed if it is above 10%. What can I effect at home other than just sitting it inside where I plan on installing it.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

1st....It MUST have good air flow completely around it......and better NOT to be on/near the floor. AS wet as the pic looks I'd set some dry 2x4's on their edge approx. 2-3 ft apart and within 6" of each end, lay on the slab THEN sticker also above it and put heavy weight on it evenly. With more water heavily on one side it will absorb more causing warpage quickly....the wieght is to attempt to hold the flatness as the excess to one side removes.

WITH hard finishes, MC needs to be dried in the 8-10% at the core ( *NOTE* this IS NOT a outside edge reading, it is center core!!!!)

With MOST woodworkers AND the MOST common place the furniture ends up at we commonly teach to dry lumber/slabs to the MC of 8-10%.....There is ways to work with green lumber BUT it takes MUCH more knowledge on wood characteristics AND hard finishes DO NOT work with them as they have to "breathe" more as they continue to dry themselves......BOTH green AND dry woods HAVE to have the PROPER joinery techniques used ( basically they are the same BUT tolerances of the movements have to be taken into account).

Once properly dried I've used 2 differ routes/finishing techniques that work well for me. Waterlox is a tough durable and easy to repair. It is thin so requires multiple coats BUT that is good!!! that gives you that depth and contrast!!!! Use their sealer formula for 5-6 coats to fill all the pores (build up the finish) then add the sheen of choice as your FINAL single coat....NEVER build a finish with low sheen finishes, it WILL be cloudy/mucky looking after a few coats.
I've also used gloss lacquer in multi layers starting with a 75% cut (75% thinner), this requires 2-3 coats BUT dries quickly BUT absorbs very deep, coats # 3-5 are cut 50%, # 5-6 is 25% , the last one or 2 of gloss at full strength.....what this does is it's "building up" the finish (filling the pores). ONCE filled then use the sheen of your choice....I was adding a hand rubbed wax as final look BUT this IS NOT the easiest to ever do a repair to....I suggest the Waterlox route. I'll attempt to post pics of both ways I've done.

The first 3 are cherry and curly maple table with the lacquer and hand rubbed wax finish technique
























1800's poplar logs I sawn and made into table that stayed in the original house. This is a Sikkens satin common exterior house finish done by owner. He ONLY wanted the top and bottom sealed. Link to thread http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/reuse-old-popular-logs-44957/








This is a spalted book end matched countertop finished with Waterlox.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

More pics.
Spalted Buckeye with Waterlox original sealer finish.








Poplar with Waterlox original sealer finish








Spalted maple with walnut legs. I used Waterlox original sealer finish


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 31, 2018)

Nice work Tim,


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Tim

Great info thanks for the detail. As you specified I currently have it in 2x4 in the same room it’s being installed I flipped it over last night to opposite side from original placement 5 days ago and there is a very slight bow in it I’m hoping now that I flipped it over it pulls back out. I plan on doing this for a few more weeks Ill figure out how to add even weight. I have a meter coming this weekend so I will get those readings for an idea of where we’re at. On a side note and I know it’s thought to define but assuming it may be 12/13% What is a rough idea of time when it will get down below 10. Is it reasonable to assume in weeks or months. What I can give you it is resting in an un heated basement temps very close to 60 I know this for a certainty as I ferment beer down there. 

Moving onfrom from drying I have read a lot about Waterloc and see many using it. My only concern is I don’t want to darken this at all will I get that with this approach. I’ll defiantly do some more reasearch in it. 

Great pics by the way. Thanks.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

The dried surface wood cells have air in them instead of the original wood water.
That's why the surface has a light color.
Any finish saturates those cells, replaces the air and the appearance goes darker.
Bummer.

I made picture frames from saw mill rubbish that had weathered for 40+ years.
Magnificent silver wood.
They look perfect because I did nothing. No finish at all.

I realize that you can't pull this stunt with a table top. Darkening the color a little seems to just
heighten the mystery of the patterns in the grain, like a window. I don't mind that
.


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Ok guys good new after moisture testing on the ends the highest reading I got was 8.6. I tested both end in 3 seperate spots. 

Tim you got me leaning towards Waterlox after quite a bit of research. Iv see a few application techniques but the few common are 4 applications sanding in between last coat dry brush after 20 mins every five mins for a half hour or so. 

Tim or anyone for that matter I’d like to hear your technique with waterlox 

After 4 coats does that satisfy for finish coat or should I go over with poly. My preferred finish coat is Minwax wipe on. Mainly for the ease as I’m not convinced of my brush skills yet plus the times I have used wipe on the results I have been very happy with. I like Tim’s advice with gloss finish than go over with satin for clarity purposes while still attaining the build.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Hawkdriver, you can wipe on Waterlox.....actually ALMOST any finish but a few.....it just goes on thinner.

I see several that "MIX" brands and types of finish(s)......I don't recommend that even though I've done some in my past.....I find it makes it harder to determine a issue or a fix IF/WHEN needed. 

IF I wanted Minwax wipe on as my final I'd just do my build up coats with wipe on gloss until the last coat.

Waterlox sealer has some "body/filler" in it BUT not enough to be cloudy under several coats as other finishes do. I'm not familiar or misunderstood the technique you mentioned on last coat of waterlox. YES it normally takes minimum of 3-4 and I've seen 6 to fill depending on the wood porosity. I've found when filling the wood that at 3rd + coat it pays to remove (wipeoff) the excess building up on the hard spots IF wood has softer spots that soak it up faster.

*NOTE* Most oil based finishes will yellow in time.....most lacquers hold clear....water bases hold clear BUT unless tech has changed aren't as durable.....there's several catalyst/mix/epoxy that I'm not familiar with.

Testing ends.....that's the first place to dry BUT isn't the most accurate to check at.....get as close to the center/center (both ways) and test as deep as you can push the probes on what would be the hidden/bottom side. That's the last area to get completely dried.....most accurate without cutting board in half and probing true center.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

No epoxy?


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Yes when identify what side is bottom I will test one last time. 

As far as waterlox yes I would plan on wiping on with more coats as I’m more comfortable with that. I’m still up in air on finish so opinions would be welcomed I’d prefer wipeon as well. And end state a satin finish. 

Yes I plan on epoxy for the very few spots there are sorry I forgot to include that previously. 

So to start, after epoxy is complete. I plan on sanding to 220 to 320 whichever feels right wipe on waterlox as many coats as needed to fill in As far as sanding In between coats I’m unsure of if I incrementally move up grit every time or just do it ever time with say 500. So please chime in on you thoughts. 

And as I stated finish I’m still in the air with as of now. 

And I’d like to thank everyone for their help thus far.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

We use Epoxy and to bring down the finish use spray urethane...


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Hawk,
There's a LOT of STEPS that have/need to be addressed in any AND all builds PRIOR to even building. You're getting out of order in the process. The step I know of you're processing now is sanding to 240/320 PRIOR to knowing what finish your going to use. Sanding also has to be according to your finish choice.....with waterlox the max is 120-150 in the raw. I'm attatching a link to another thread going now here involving Waterlox that I've posted the link for Waterlox's recommendations. Other finishes have their own specs. ANY finish you MIGHT think you'd be interested in, go to the brand you'd choose and read ALL the SPECS PRIOR to using.

I noticed Jay White Cloud has posted on there re: sanding finish (actually NOT to BUT you have to read ALL to understand) He also has some posts here about traditional finishes. It's AWESOME to have a person as dedicated as he in his tradtional background AND TONS of information to the old ways which we need to know to prevent/have knowledge on things taught nowadays wrong.

PLEASE read!!!!


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Tim. 

Great thanks for the info. Know I have not started anything yet Bc as you eluded to I’m not 100% on the process yet. So yes absolutely I will read however I didn’t see the link. I don’t know if it doesn’t show on the mobile app but regardless I’ll search the forum.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Hawkdriver said:


> Tim.
> 
> Great thanks for the info. Know I have not started anything yet Bc as you eluded to I’m not 100% on the process yet. So yes absolutely I will read however I didn’t see the link. I don’t know if it doesn’t show on the mobile app but regardless I’ll search the forum.


I forgot to post the link to the thread , post #5 has a waterlox link : http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f8/waterlox-194577/


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## Bella Vista 479 (Feb 27, 2018)

You can't go wrong with an epoxy finish. I have done oil based polys and they are nice but I just did a wallnut live edge table with ultra clear epoxy and it's the best finish I have ever seen. My only question is where is the best place to get a casting resin without paying a ton to do epoxy rivers? Anyone have any advice? I'm new on here and not sure how to work this website


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Hey guys thanks for all the input I’m hoping to begin this project this weekend. It’s has aclamated for a month moisture is right. I’m planning on starting with live edge removal. None the less the last thing I’m slightly unsure about as I been lurking around reading a lot, is doing a pore filler. Would this slab benifit from this I really don’t want anything to change the light and dark woods color variation but clearly it is a very open pores piece. Any thoughts


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## Hawkdriver (Sep 15, 2016)

Correction grain filler.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Hawkdriver said:


> Hey guys thanks for all the input I’m hoping to begin this project this weekend. It’s has aclamated for a month moisture is right. I’m planning on starting with live edge removal. None the less the last thing I’m slightly unsure about as I been lurking around reading a lot, is doing a pore filler. Would this slab benifit from this I really don’t want anything to change the light and dark woods color variation but clearly it is a very open pores piece. Any thoughts


It's customary to fill the grain on walnut. Still it's a personal choice thing. If you are alright with seeing the texture of the wood in the finish skip that step. If you want it Sherwin Williams makes a good grain filler but it only comes in a natural color which looks terrible on walnut. They can tint it for you to a walnut color. Mohawk Finishing products makes a grain filler that is already tinted. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=105


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

It’s hard to beat Waterlox for popping grain in dark woods. It will amber the light sapwood though. Tim’s right that it can be wiped, but it brushed just as easily. I usually brush a bunch on every 15 minutes until it looks like it won’t absorb any more, then I wipe off the excess. I do that for the first two coats. Then I brush on thin coats until I get the gloss I want. If your shop is clean and you don’t get dust nibs in the finish, I’ve read that you can get away without sanding between coats, but my shop isn’t clean, so I’ve never actually done that. 

Do be sure to properly dispose of rags soaked in Waterlox to avoid spontaneous combustion.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Quickstep said:


> It’s hard to beat Waterlox for popping grain in dark woods. It will amber the light sapwood though. Tim’s right that it can be wiped, but it brushed just as easily. I usually brush a bunch on every 15 minutes until it looks like it won’t absorb any more, then I wipe off the excess. I do that for the first two coats. Then I brush on thin coats until I get the gloss I want. If your shop is clean and you don’t get dust nibs in the finish, I’ve read that you can get away without sanding between coats, but my shop isn’t clean, so I’ve never actually done that.
> 
> Do be sure to properly dispose of rags soaked in Waterlox to avoid spontaneous combustion.


I'll try this again....wrong button AND WHAMMY it's all gone but the crying :crying2::crying2::vs_OMG:
I personally don't fill the grain.....it's rustic and it is what it is...
Waterlox and nibs....:grin::|... they got me this past week and a half ago.....not so much as dust BUT a few were the wormy spalted maple poop in the holes I suspect BUT the most was from the satin in the new can from factory was stuck to the bottom, after stirring for 5 minutes or more I used without straining the small portion I poured in a seperate container, it had small satin nibs once dried in the finish, I assumed I'd done something wrong, so...I sanded, hand rubbed and recoated as factory specs said and it happened again, that's when I discovered it was the finish not totally stirring completely smooth as designed (LESSON LEARNED...ALWAYS strain a satin EVEN IF it's a new can!!!) I sanded again and put Heritage Natural Finishes liquid end sealer wax on and it's BEAUTIFUL!!! https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=Q0tTMlJYaWc2RVBaeUUyRmxPdTRJT3BvVUZSZU5B

I've got me other Heritage Natural Finishes ordered, I was a little leary about the look I was going to be able to achieve UNTIL I visted their facebook page and seen the guitar makers instruments finished with their products....AWESOME!!!!


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## highfigh (Oct 8, 2017)

The wood hasn't fully dried and it will continue to move until it hits about 6%. Also, one piece sitting on stickers won't necessarily dry flat- put some weight on it to keep it flat or it will continue to move. You could use a piece under the slab, oriented at a right angle- this is sometimes called a 'strongback' and when it's fastened, it causes the slab to become straight.

I have used Minwax poly many times and have come to the conclusion that their floor poly is kind of an unknown finish for furniture. It dries quickly and is more durable than the regular stuff. I have done some test pieces and one time, I accidentally dropped a piece of green ScotchBrite in the pan and since it was scrap, I decided to scrub it into the wood. It did a few things- continued to smooth the wood, scrubbed the finish into the surface and anything that was removed from the wood acted as filler. It dried faster that way, too- super smooth. Once it was fully dry, I used a dry piece of white ScotchBrite to burnish the finish and it was left very smooth with little marking from the abrasive. 

If you plan to use paste wax on this, I recommend using white ScotchBrite to apply that, too. I did that to teh face frames when I built my kitchen cabinets and the finish was smooth, with a soft glow- not glossy, not satin. 

BTW- gloss finishes are the hardest because they don't have any modifiers so you can use gloss for the first coats and finish with satin if you want, but I would recommend using the ScotchBrite.

If you do use shellac (there's not really much reason to if you plan to follow with poly unless you need to cover sap or something else that can be dissolved by the chemicals in poly), you can pour it on and brush it or roll it. The finish doesn't care if you use traditional methods and whatever works, works. You can also use a cloth, piece of carpet, etc and if it's wet enough, it won't dry instantly. If you can do this when the temperature is lower, the drying time will be extended. If it isn't totally smooth after the first coats dry, it will be after subsequent coats. 

I bought some books on finishing, one by Jeff Jewitt. Be creative- you can thin almost any finish, just use the correct thinner. I brushed the poly on the base cabinets and sprayed the upper ones after thinning with mineral spirits. I have also sprayed smaller pieces and it really speeds the process but it's not mandatory.


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