# General Finishes Gel Stain Problems



## Deana Gilmore (Apr 4, 2017)

I am trying to refinish a white washed/pickled looking sidetable with burl wood veneers on the top and drawer fronts. There is grain that goes in different directions as well along the sides so it has been difficult to "follow the grain with such a big center having the veneer.


I noticed some of the original poly had bubbled and cracked, so I sanded those areas using 220 and 320 grit sand paper before spraying with Bullseye Dewaxed Shellac to create a barrier.


When I put the brown mahogany on top using a brush technique, I didn't like the bristle marks I saw left behind. I let it dry and the next day I realized that the burlwood was disappearing under the stain and it didn't look great in terms of the streaking.


I added a second coat, this time using Candelite. I tried using foam brush, staining pads, shop towels to brush on and wipe off. With all the moulding and edges, it was hard to get into the grooves without either taking too much off or leaving too much on. I fiddled with mineral spirits on the tip of the brush to brush excess stain out, but it now has a "painted" distressed look to it.


I don't know if I am just still to early in the process and should press on, or call it quits and strip.


The areas I sanded on the top are becoming more pronounced as I go and I believe it's going to get worse, unless the top is super dark - which defeats the purpose of showing off the grain.


I really could use some advice. I have poured through the internet, youtube videos, even GF's videos and website.


I've seen people stain builder grade cabinets in less coats than I think this will take!!!


Advice? Anyone???


Thanks,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

A gel stain isn't really a stain, it's thinned down paint and would be subject to brush marks. 

I'm having difficulty understanding the desired outcome of the finish. You begin talking about whitewash and then brown mahogany which is a completely different look. 

A whitewash finish is a very simple finish to do. Strip the furniture down to bare wood and sand it as though you were going to stain it. Then either purchase a pickling white stain or thin some white enamel paint and apply it wiping off the excess stain leaving the paint heavier in the crevasses. Allow that to dry completely and lightly sand the surface with 220 grit or finer paper. From there apply a clear finish which is non-yellowing. This could be a water based polyurethane however allow the stain to dry a week before using. Water based finishes are incompatible with linseed oil so the linseed oil has to dry completely. You could also use a cab-acrylic lacquer if you have the means of spraying. Any other finish which is an acrylic would also remain clear. Oil based finishes tend to yellow as they age and looks bad on pickled wood.


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## Deana Gilmore (Apr 4, 2017)

Steve, sorry for the confusion. The sidetable began as a pickled or whitewashed looking sidetable. My goal is to bring it down to a deeper mahogany color to match the dark leather furniture it will be sitting beside.


I wanted to accentuate the burlwood but still darken the piece substantially. With the two coats I have already applied, it has turned this 80's furniture into the 90's looking more like builder-grade honey oak cabinets. I know I have successive coats that I need to apply, but with the top having an uneven finish where I sanded down the previous poly that had bubbled and "tried to feather it out", I'm not sure if I need to strip the top and resand evenly or press on. I have seen some great GF stain work with tiger wood using candelite and java. 


I am very hesitant to strip down to the grain and stain directly on the wood (without using something like a shellac) to keep blotchiness from occurring. I have read about using mineral spirits first to soak into the wood and then stain, but there are so many other opinions as to whether to use a pre-stain conditioner or just spray shellac.


I don't have access to a sprayer - but man, I wish I did. Life would be so much easier if I could spray on evenly.


So looking at the pics, am I just too early in the process to make a judgement call or does this look like a botched job and I need to start over?


Thanks for your time,


Deana


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Spray on stain ....*

I had to refinish my Oak front door and used my sprayer to apply successive coats of stain to get the look I wanted:
 

Attached Images

















The entire process is here along with a lot of comments from the peanut gallery:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f8/refinish-oak-door-11694/


Having said that, you CAN buy stain in a spray can. :surprise2:
Although I have heard some bad things about Polyshades here what you can get:
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/one-step-stain-and-finishes/minwax-polyshades-aerosol

Krylon make it also:
http://www.krylon.com/products/exterior-semitransparent-wood-stain/


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you are applying a gel stain over an old finish and it is bubbling and coming off in spots I would say the gel stain isn't bonding to the old finish and most all of it is destine to come off. A gel stain can be applied over an existing finish however you have to thoroughly clean the furniture with a wax and grease remover and scuff up the old finish with about 180 grit sandpaper. The old finish needs to be roughened up. If the furniture hasn't been prepared right and is lifting then the only option is to strip it down to bare wood. 

If you have compressed air a Harbor Freight sprayer will spray wood finishes just fine and they only run about 20 bucks. I use the model #97855. If what stain you have on the project is sound you could even it up a lot by shading the light spots with a sprayer. The gun can be choked down to where it only sprays a little finish and used like an air brush. You won't be able to get 100% of the blotch out but can get most of it. 

As far as staining the wood and going blotchy, there are some thing you can do to prevent this. It's true birch wood is one of those woods prone to blotch but with a sprayer you could stain with a dye stain or you could pre-treat the wood with a wood conditioner and it should stain uniform. 

You have to be careful using shellac in finishing. Shellac has a natural wax that a lot of finishes won't bond to and a gel stain is one of them. There is a de-waxed shellac which you could use. The most common is Zinsser Sealcoat. It has had the natural wax filtered out.


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## Deana Gilmore (Apr 4, 2017)

Steve, I was able to pick up a sprayer from Harbor Freight this weekend. I decided to strip the top back to the grain so I can correct the uneven sanding I did where the original polyurethane topcoat had bubbled. It looks like water had gotten under the topcoat at some point in time years ago and the bubbling was only going to get worse over time.


I was researching how to spray a gel stain by thinning it with some mineral spirits or even by mixing it with the General Finishes Armor-Seal coat. Do you have any advice on that? I'd like to use this color rather than switch to a new product all together, but not having sprayed gel stain before, I don't even know if it's possible. I definitely would have to thin it since it is so thick.


Thank you everyone for your time.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Deana Gilmore said:


> Steve, I was able to pick up a sprayer from Harbor Freight this weekend. I decided to strip the top back to the grain so I can correct the uneven sanding I did where the original polyurethane topcoat had bubbled. It looks like water had gotten under the topcoat at some point in time years ago and the bubbling was only going to get worse over time.
> 
> 
> I was researching how to spray a gel stain by thinning it with some mineral spirits or even by mixing it with the General Finishes Armor-Seal coat. Do you have any advice on that? I'd like to use this color rather than switch to a new product all together, but not having sprayed gel stain before, I don't even know if it's possible. I definitely would have to thin it since it is so thick.
> ...


I've never sprayed a gel stain either however I don't think it would be that difficult. Usually with a stain as heavily pigmented as that it's better to over thin it a little and apply two coats. This would make it less likely to stain blotchy.


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## Deana Gilmore (Apr 4, 2017)

Well, this sidetable has stumped me over and over. I finally got it stained to the point I was ready to topcoat it with the General Finishes Arm R Seal. I wiped on the first coat using a t-shirt and it did fine. Before the second coat, I lightly sanded with 600 grit to knock the dust nibs down. 


The second coat didn't go so well. I had streaking. I had to sand down that layer and this time dipped my towel in a little bit of mineral spirits before dipping it in my bowl of Arm R Seal. It seemed to glide on beautifully.....until it dried. It was cloudy. (I had waited 24 hours before doing my second top coat)


I sanded again, and this time, tried applying full-coat using an applicator foam brush. It was worse, and had huge lap marks.....once again sanded down and decided to use the Harbor Freight HVLP sprayer on my driveway. Despite having a canvas tarp up around 2 of the sides (my house is blocked by garage) and spraying on a calm mid-morning, I noticed instant speckles in the finish. I let it dry, lightly sanded the next day and sprayed a second coat. This time, I pulled it into the garage, door down, to let it dry overnight.


I lightly sanded with 600 to knock the dust nibs down and then 1200 to try to bring out some sheen (I'm using satin) but I noticed flat spots where I had sanded down the "speckles".

So last night I decided to wipe on a very light coat of clear coat to try to hide the dull spots and noticed it streaking. I quickly wiped it off with mineral spirits, dried it and then tried again with a very slight mineral spirits dipped on my rag and then clear coat. I did notice that when I shined my phone light on the top (simulating if a lamp were placed on the table) I could see the speckles appear and disappear depending on where the light was angled. I am now worried that this is what my client will see when he has his lamp on the table at night! I waited until this morning before stressing out once again about this project. I can still see very light wipe marks (even though the rag was wet, my top coat was going on wet and I overlapped my swipes.


I can also still see some of the speckled spots that probably weren't adequately covered by the clear coat.


I will try to attach pics for your review.


I'm not sure if I should at this point sand down again and respray, and do something different in my spraying process? Maybe I just didn't spray enough clear coat the first time to allow it to float?


This Arm R Seal has been touted to be a great wipe on clear coat. It seemed to work well on the first coat, soaking into the stain, but everything after that has been a nightmare.


I would LOVE someone's help to get this to completion. I'm not sure if the little speckles are basically bubbles floating between the layers (when I sprayed the first coat) or if they will disappear with additional coats.


Also, I can see some sanding marks from the multiple times I had to sand down.


I hand sanded (as I don't have a random oribital sander) and at times I put a block down to sand down evenly.
Please tell me this isn't beyond help?


Thanks everyone for your input.


Hand-wiped with mineral spirits on rag w/clear coat.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b-s34UOXi1dlE3ME1yTkNRcms/view?usp=sharing


After sanding above coat and spraying with HVLP, light sanding to knock nibs, this pic is after light wipe with clearcoat/mineral spirits. This shows speckles in the light "in the coat" layer.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b-s34UOXi1Y1YxUWlZX1pGNGs/view?usp=sharing


This is this morning, after above pic dried: (You can see the swipe marks) and dull speckles on the top layer.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b-s34UOXi1eXV4OS11Wm5Xanc/view?usp=sharing


This is a close-up of the surface show defects:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b-s34UOXi1YWNob2ZPNVNqUGc/view?usp=sharing


This looks good from a distance but I notice the details since the top is what draws the eye. The before and after is really still in the finishing stages, but I wanted to show what it was til now.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b-s34UOXi1Tm9tZzhZcVM0SVU/view?usp=sharing


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