# My ignorance



## JohnnyG73 (Sep 10, 2013)

I wanted to post this under the general section and maybe should have to reach more individuals but here goes. I have seen on this forum from time to time brave souls that have risked appearing stupid in order to make others aware of dangers via there own mistakes and personal experiences. Here is mine...

I use BOILED LINSEED OIL on many of my projects. I admit that when it comes to chemicals I read the "directions" only and tend to skip over the "safety warnings". I would guess that many here already know where this is heading.

I tend to wait till I have multiple projects that need finishing so I can do them all at once. I use paper towels to apply the oil. This is done in a dedicated spare bedroom and the paper towels are discarded in a kitchen size garbage. I have done this for quite some time now. A week ago I had just finished about 10 projects, watched some TV, and went to bed. My fiancée works 2nd shift and came home. No problems yet...

She watched TV for several hours. It has now been at least 5 hours since I used the oil to finish my projects. As she was getting ready for bed she smelled something burning. I was woken up by her yelling that the garbage was smoking and smoldering. I got up immediately and took control of the situation. An actual fire had not yet started but was VERY close. In no time the smoke filled the house and made it difficult for us to breathe.

Before this happened I had believed that flammable chemicals needed a source of ignition to ignite...WRONG!!! A spark or heat source is NOT required.

This occurrence has really opened my eyes. I have since read every single label on every liquid container in our home. I had been storing the containers correctly and my only mistake was not reading the precautions and properly discarding the used paper towels.

This is very important for anyone that has any chemical in their home. As I look back, I was lucky many times. I was again very lucky this last time. We could have lost everything and died to boot. I feel so stupid about what happened but if it helps one person this post was worth it.



Read the entire label, not just the directions 
Follow the precautions! 
Take safety measures...fire alarms and fire extinguishers 
Always remember that tools and machines are not the only dangers in a shop or home


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Whether or not you read labels ALWAYS assume that any chemical can be dangerous. Spontaneous combustion of rags, paper towels, etc is a problem. Any that I use are always opened up after use and removed from the shop. Rags are hung on the chain link fence outside my garage door to air. Paper towels are placed in a metal container outside.

When my father had his garage he had a metal disposal container built into his workbench.

George


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

Thanks for the reminder for those that also may be ignorant to the hazards of drying oils.

I burn mine which I believe removes all doubt.


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## mikeswoods (May 18, 2009)

Spontaneous combustion ----I had a customer do the exact same thing---the smoldering garbage bag burst into open flame when she tried to move the can----


no permanent damage,the fire department used fans to clear the smoke.


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## woodturner9 (Jun 19, 2012)

SandburRanch said:


> Thanks for the reminder for those that also may be ignorant to the hazards of drying oils.


It's specifically oils to which metallic driers are added, like "Boiled Linseed Oil" and Tung oil.

BLO was traditionally made by boiling raw linseed oil, hence the name. True BLO does not spontaneously combust, but the boiling process is time consuming and it does tend to ignite if cooked at too high a temperature. As a result, commercial manufacturing processes switched to adding metallic driers, causing the spontaneous combustion issue.

There was a guy selling actual BLO a while back at the woodworking shows, don't know if he is still around or if one can even buy real BLO anymore.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodturner9 said:


> It's specifically oils to which metallic driers are added, like "Boiled Linseed Oil" and Tung oil.
> 
> BLO was traditionally made by boiling raw linseed oil, hence the name. True BLO does not spontaneously combust, but the boiling process is time consuming and it does tend to ignite if cooked at too high a temperature. As a result, commercial manufacturing processes switched to adding metallic driers, causing the spontaneous combustion issue.
> 
> There was a guy selling actual BLO a while back at the woodworking shows, don't know if he is still around or if one can even buy real BLO anymore.


"]It's specifically oils to which metallic driers are added, like "Boiled Linseed Oil" and Tung oil."

Incorrect. There are many, many different chemicals that may contribute to spontaneous combustion. Google "spontaneous combustion" for an extensive education.

George


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## woodturner9 (Jun 19, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> There are many, many different chemicals that may contribute to spontaneous combustion.


Yes, there are other chemicals that cause spontaneous combustion in other products and substances. My comment referred specifically to oil-based finishes, the topic of this thread, and it's primarily the metallic driers that are added to oil finishes that can cause spontaneous combustion.

The reason the driers can cause spontaneous combustion is that they cause the oils to oxidize at a fast rate. Without the driers, the oils oxidize at a very slow rate. That's why engine oil doesn't spontaneously combust, for example - it doesn't oxidize fast enough. Add metallic driers to it, though, and it will spontaneously combust.

If you are interested in learning a bit more about this, a couple of references:

A solution to spontaneous combustion in linseed oil formulations, Abrams, Polymer Degradation and Stability, Volume 54, Issues 2-3

Oxidation reactions and spontaneous ignition of linseed oil, Juita et al, Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 33, Issue 2

These and other references should be available at the engineering library of any tier 1 research university.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Thanks for sending me this link, JohnnyG73. Wow, you had a very close call. I'm sure glad your special lady smelled the smoke. I'd hate to think what may have happened otherwise. And thanks for posting this here. Hopefully this will help protect others from potential danger.


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

Combustion in the barn was a common problem just after the hay baler was invented, and still is to some extent. In haste to stay ahead of the weather hay was often baled too wet ( above 13 % MC ) and then a few days later the hay loft went POOF in a cloud of smoke. That wasn't so much a problem when the haymow was stacked with loose hay.


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## JohnnyG73 (Sep 10, 2013)

SandburRanch said:


> Combustion in the barn was a common problem just after the hay baler was invented, and still is to some extent. In haste to stay ahead of the weather hay was often baled too wet ( above 13 % MC ) and then a few days later the hay loft went POOF in a cloud of smoke. That wasn't so much a problem when the haymow was stacked with loose hay.


Right you are. I grew up working on farms and bailing hay. Cutting the hay and allowing it to dry before bailing was always a concern. All of that prevention didn't prevent my teenage self and my teenage friends from sneaking off to the barn and hay loft to smoke. All I can do is look back and be thankful of the miracle that no fire started!


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

After my neighbor's house was quickly gutted by fire (not workshop related) it made me think more about my practices and I got one of these cans from amazon for my finish and stain soaked cloths: 



 
I empty it on trash day so items go straight from it to the curb. My plane shavings and sawdust go in a steel trashcan with tight fitting lid.


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Just tossed some rags with Danish oil on them in the shop trash yesterday. Guess I better head out to the garage and fish them out. Thanks for the reminder.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Another thing that will do the spontaneous combustion trick is freshly picked corn. They often load corn directly after its been picked and crated while still out in the fields.

I've hauled many loads of corn to markets around the country and whenever I did my first stop after loading in the field was to an ice house where gallons of water and crushed ice was blown into the trailer to cover the load and keep water from the melting ice dripping on the corn. Depending on how far I was going before delivery, I'd sometimes have to stop and repeat the water and ice routine several times as I traveled across the country. Corn loaded in the fields in NY and sold to buyers in Chicago needed to be re-iced three times before unloading and once a day after arrival if delivery was delayed. When I'd open the rig to unload at my final destination, there was always steam coming from the corn. 

I once witnessed a rig burn completely down to the tires when it was left parked out in the sun and not re-iced.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

johnnie52 said:


> Another thing that will do the spontaneous combustion trick is freshly picked corn. They often load corn directly after its been picked and crated while still out in the fields.
> 
> I've hauled many loads of corn to markets around the country and whenever I did my first stop after loading in the field was to an ice house where gallons of water and crushed ice was blown into the trailer to cover the load and keep water from the melting ice dripping on the corn. Depending on how far I was going before delivery, I'd sometimes have to stop and repeat the water and ice routine several times as I traveled across the country. Corn loaded in the fields in NY and sold to buyers in Chicago needed to be re-iced three times before unloading and once a day after arrival if delivery was delayed. When I'd open the rig to unload at my final destination, there was always steam coming from the corn.
> 
> I once witnessed a rig burn completely down to the tires when it was left parked out in the sun and not re-iced.


That is a new one to me. I learn something new every dayl (er, almost every day.)

George


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

I believe the advice is to let wrags / paper towel hang out to dry in a ventilated space. Guilty as charged - I have never really done it though been told.

Something else I was told with steel wool. It can combust when using to sand on the lathe. Keep a glass jar and lid handy. Through the steel wool in the jar and put the lid on. Oxygen deprived it will go out if on fire or not ignite to start with.

Not claiming at all to be an expert but sharing what I have been told. Taking it a step further I guess the paper towel in your instance would not have ignited if disposed of in a sealed glass jar. Dont know what would happen a day, month, year later if the jar was opened or broken?

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## GoIrish (Jan 29, 2012)

The oxidation of curing oil (like BLO) releases heat. If the heat is released into a small confined space (wadded up ball) then the temperature can increase to a point that fire can break out. If you spread the rags out the heat will dissipate and the temperature can't increase to the point of danger. While this can be done on the top of your trash bin a fence or other outdoor location will prevent the fumes from building up in your shop which could lead to other problems if the concentration were to get too high.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Anything that contains linseed oil can spontaniously ignite. I had some rags soaked with minwax stain catch fire and burn one time. They were in a pile on the ground outside my shop in the direct sun though.


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## BaldEagle2012 (Jan 25, 2012)

If I use rags or shop towels to do any staining, wipe on poly, or any volitile solvent, they go directly into the wood stove, where I lite them and let them burn. I don't keep those rags/towels till a later time, they get burned right away.

When I was in woodshop at school, our instructor always mentioned that any rags used for any volitile liquids had to be placed in the special disposal container that Gilgaron mentioned in his post to this thread. I have always remembered that.


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## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

My old shop was not air conditioned, so i did most of my finishing in the house. When it is not convenient to burn the paper towels, I freeze them until it is.


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