# Woodstock(shopfox) terrible customer service



## Fudwrecker (Jan 27, 2011)

Hi everyone, I recently had a terrible experience with Woodstock international I thought I would share in case some of you are considering any of their products.
I recently added the Shopfox 14" bandsaw W1706 to my small garage shop and after about 3 hours it became very clear I needed to add a mobile base. I bought the mobile base (small size) built and supplied also by Woodstock. About halfway through the instructions it clearly states to put a 4 x 4 under one side. That seemed odd to me but hey that is what the instructions say. You can guess what happened. We were unable to stop the machine from going over once the center of gravity shifted far enough. I hung on trying to keep it upright and actually went flying over top of it. 
Lucky it missed my garage door rail by inches and there was no car in the driveway (where it ended up) 
I gouged open my arm, pulled my back muscles and banged my head. 
The damage to the saw is bad (sheared bolts, bent blade, broken trunion and trunion base, bent saw guide and this is what I can tell visually.)
The customer service rep at woodstock took the issue to management and they came back and said they would give me 20% of the cost of the replacement parts!
I was shocked. They could not have cared much less about me and
I understand why they would not admit any liability (the instructions are clearly wrong) - but 20% of replacement parts? that is their cost. 
I suspect they knew a lawyer would tell me I was not hurt badly enough and pursuing legal action (I'm Canadian) against a US. company would cost me more in time and money than the saw was worth.
So the big guys win again and they get away with basically ignoring me. hopefully if any of you are researching one of their products to buy you consider my fate in your decision making process


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Have you considered writing a letter stating the facts and providing evidence (photos), and forwarding it to the CEO and directors of the company? I've had luck with this tactic before on things where I felt the company was in the wrong.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

I agree with Ryan, you should send them an email (so you have a paper trail) and a letter documenting the entire timeline with pics, if possible, and send it up the flag pole. Although, unless you know how the email address of the CEO or president, you may have a bit of an uphill climb to get in front of them. 

Paul


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## Fudwrecker (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks - I think I might try that - have nothing to lose!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Finding CEO emails is pretty easy with the internet today.


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## Zircon (Aug 1, 2009)

That is really a shame but you basically tipped over a top heavy machine. You say "we" were not able to prevent it from tipping. Is that the royal "we" or did you have help as the directions clearly say to have an assistant. I don't see how two people working carefully could not have prevented the machine from falling over.


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## Fudwrecker (Jan 27, 2011)

Zircon said:


> That is really a shame but you basically tipped over a top heavy machine. You say "we" were not able to prevent it from tipping. Is that the royal "we" or did you have help as the directions clearly say to have an assistant. I don't see how two people working carefully could not have prevented the machine from falling over.


 

well the helper was step son (and probably was not 100% there in mind)- and he was off to one side - which may have saved further injury (or prevented the tip - I'm not sure) neither of us were expecting the result. 
I was tilting the saw to put the 4x 4 under it per the instructions
tilting one side of narrow based top heavy thing 3.5 inches is 
insane. Stupidity is not the issue here (i was not thinking either) - it is the total lack of respect by the large company - when clearly the mistake is in the instructions.
had someone seriously got hurt - they would be liable for sure - the problem(?!) is i did not get hurt enough.

I have since done base add with a 2 x 1 and it worked fine. now I can wheel the usless $700 thing out of the way so I can go back to resawing on my table saw.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

When you email them, send them the link to this thread, as well.


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## rustbucket (Nov 13, 2009)

Fudwrecker said:


> I was tilting the saw to put the 4x 4 under it per the instructions tilting one side of narrow based top heavy thing 3.5 inches is insane. Stupidity is not the issue here (i was not thinking either)


Insane, but you did it anyway? Did you tilt the saw in a controlled manner supporting the top, or just pry from the bottom where you don't have control? I wasn't there, so I have no idea how this went down, but it seems to me that Shop Fox should have better and more detailed procedures written into the instructions, and maybe you should have done a better job assessing the situation before proceeding.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

It is not clear to me what you were doing? Were you unloading this saw from a truck. Trying to put the mobile base under it? Or what?

It does not seem to me that tilting something 4 or 5 inches should get it into such an unstable mode that one person could not hold it.

George


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Fudwrecker said:


> well the helper was step son (and probably was not 100% there in mind)- and he was off to one side - which may have saved further injury (or prevented the tip - I'm not sure) neither of us were expecting the result.
> I was tilting the saw to put the 4x 4 under it per the instructions
> tilting one side of narrow based top heavy thing 3.5 inches is
> insane. Stupidity is not the issue here (i was not thinking either) - it is the total lack of respect by the large company - when clearly the mistake is in the instructions.
> ...





I am not sure that I see ShopFox as being at fault here to tell you the truth. Don't get me wrong, I'd invent volumes of new profanity if I tipped over a brand new piece of equipment like that. Looking at the manual for the base, though, it seems like the instructions are clear enough. 

"11. With the help of an assistant, lift the rear side of 
the machine up, then place a 4x4 block under the 
machine."​
Your posts both say that you were tipping a side as opposed to tipping it forward (front being the side with the table, rear end elevated), which could either be a difference in symantics or the root cause of the problem. From the looks of the saw's base, it is deeper than it is wide. Lifting the back, as opposed to lifting one side or another, would result in the a more stable situation. 

As for the procedure itself being unsafe, I feel like they have more than enough cautionary warnings in the instructions to cover themselves if it became a legal dispute. 

"Do not use the mobile base until you have read and understood this instruction sheet and completed the entire assembly procedure. Serious personal injury may occur if you ignore this warning. "

"Lift heavy machinery carefully and with the proper equipment. Get assistance if needed to reduce the risk of lifting injuries."​
I agree that it can't hurt to try and get more than 20% out of them, but whatever response you get will likely be a balancing act between providing reasonable customer service and not doing anything to suggest that they are admitting fault.


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## Fudwrecker (Jan 27, 2011)

rustbucket said:


> Insane, but you did it anyway? Did you tilt the saw in a controlled manner supporting the top, or just pry from the bottom where you don't have control?


I was slowly leaning the saw forward while slidding the 4 x4 under the base with my foot (holding the top) once it starting going over son basically let go and I could not stop it - I tried (which is why I ended up flying over top of it.)

A brain fart really was not thinking - but point is I should not have been in the situaiton this was easy to do with no danger by raising the base 1 inch (not the 3 and half the instructions say)

I'm quessing what happened here is they copied the instructions from the larger base model (i think there are 3 sizes) where a 4 x 4 under one side of a jointer or something would not be an issue. then failed to adjust the dimensions of the block (or they typo'd)
but the dimensions of this base are not very big.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Fudwrecker said:


> ...I'm quessing what happened here is they copied the instructions from the larger base model (i think there are 3 sizes) where a 4 x 4 under one side of a jointer or something would not be an issue. then failed to adjust the dimensions of the block (or they typo'd)
> but the dimensions of this base are not very big.


http://pics.woodstockint.com/manuals/d2057a_m.pdf

If this is the right manual, then it looks like it is just one set of documentation that is used for all three sizes. :boat:


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## Fudwrecker (Jan 27, 2011)

Phaedrus said:


> Looking at the manual for the base, though, it seems like the instructions are clear enough.





Phaedrus said:


> "11. With the help of an assistant, lift the rear side of
> the machine up, then place a 4x4 block under the
> machine."
> As for the procedure itself being unsafe, I feel like they have more than enough cautionary warnings in the instructions to cover themselves if it became a legal dispute.
> ...


Phaedrus you work for woodstock? LOL I'm not sure where you got your directions by in mine it is step 9? I was trying to install D2260A (Mini mobile base) you quoted step 11 -are yours from one of the larger model bases? I'm guessing it is - 
yes I did lift the "rear" of the machine. 
This is my point -the rails on the Mini Mobile base are too short to require a 4 x 4 and you do not need to raise it that high to slide them into the corner brackets you have slid under the front in the earlier step. I'm sure it comes down to simple trigonometry. (i do not know what the angle needs to be to slide the rail in - to do the math)
the instructions are wrong and they created the situation that caused me to trash to my saw. was I stupid? Probably. 
my experience in life has taught me to follow direction as close as you can (and yes after reading them through and verifying you received all the parts you should have) 
but it is not a crime to be stupid and have a bad day - we all do it
Hell half the US economy is built on people suing everyone else because they were stupid and did not use common sense.
you last point is my reality, to help me they admit they were wrong


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ha, definitely not on their payroll. I was just intrigued by the thread and was doing some digging to find out more. Keep us all posted if anything comes of your efforts. Are you trying to work with ShopFox the seller?

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## Fudwrecker (Jan 27, 2011)

Phaedrus said:


> http://pics.woodstockint.com/manuals/d2057a_m.pdf
> 
> If this is the right manual, then it looks like it is just one set of documentation that is used for all three sizes. :boat:


I find this interesting this is not the manual I got.
Mine is part number 11850BL and is specific to just the D2260A mini mobile base
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g8683z_m.pdf
I wonder what caused them to break it out?


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## Fudwrecker (Jan 27, 2011)

to answer your question as to who I'm working with:

I sent Woodstock international a few emails to customer service and they are ignoring me now entirely (I sent them my fist post of this string as well) 
I bought it off Amazon.CA (Canada) once I knocked it over I should have just sent it back to them and told them it was damaged in shipping or something but Momma raised her son well and that would not have been honest.
Now the good news..........I'm working with a Toronto tool company who is authorized to sell Shop Fox parts. When he heard my story he sent me my first group of parts free! These are the visually broken screws, Trunnion, blade Guard etc - the blade I did not replace although it is kinked (it bent on the table insert) as I have the riser kit to install as well (which replaces the blade altogether)
Unfortunately one of the parts shop fox supplied is wrong (yes more pain) the bolt that the trunnion lock knob threads onto sheared at the head. The head is a real odd size (needs to lock in a hexagon bracket). the bolt they sent has a head that is too small and spins in the bracket (the part number is correct and they did send what it describes but there is no mention of the size of the bolt head) 
I looked everywhere to replace it and could not find the right size head. So my new Friend Rob at Ford Tools (who has never in 37 years seen something like this) Is going to have the head welded back on for free for me (I mailed him the part I got and the broken part) 
So I'm dealing with 2 extremes here and to say I'm dumfounded by the customer service of Ford Tools in Ontario, is the understatement of the year.
There really is people who do care for the little guy out there!
once I get the welded bolt back - hopefully I can get this saw working again.


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