# Is the HF collector the right choice for me?



## DKL (Sep 2, 2020)

My shop is in the basement, I have roughly 16x20 feet of floor space that I am slowly building out. I have been using a shop vac and cyclone up until this point. This weekend, I came very close to buying one of the black friday deals I've come across, but as I began to compare specs, I realized I didn't know enough to make a comparison. So I did some research, and came to the following conclusions/specifications:

Must have a 1 micron cartridge filter. This is my #1 requirement. I noticed that not all cartridge filters are equal, if manufacturer specs are to be believed.
Must run on 120
Would like it to have 1000 cfm 

So with all that, it brought some my options more in to focus. I am just a hobbiest, and it's not likely I'll be running more than one tool at a time. I am plagued with the frugal gene, which I inherited from my father, so naturally I took a close look at the Harbor Freight. It appears to have the capacity I want, runs on 120 and there are filter cartridge kits available for $225 or so. So, all told, I'm spending $430ish. Seems like a good deal, IF the specs are accurate. If it's really a 650 cfm unit in disguise, there are other options in the same price range, like the laguna Bsomething. 

So with what I've laid out, and if my price limit is $1000 with a sincere hope that it will be quite a bit under that, is the HF the winner? I would probably add a cyclone at some point, so that'd be another couple hundred, depending on what components I use.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

DKL said:


> My shop is in the basement, I have roughly 16x20 feet of floor space that I am slowly building out. I have been using a shop vac and cyclone up until this point. This weekend, I came very close to buying one of the black friday deals I've come across, but as I began to compare specs, I realized I didn't know enough to make a comparison. So I did some research, and came to the following conclusions/specifications:
> 
> Must have a 1 micron cartridge filter. This is my #1 requirement. I noticed that not all cartridge filters are equal, if manufacturer specs are to be believed.
> Must run on 120
> ...


You are correct in your analysis of the CFM ratings. They are based on the impeller diameter, rpms, and horsepower that spins them. Even a bare bones HF DC system is better than none. BUT there are modifications on You Tube that include the Wynnn cannister filters, and changing the impeller to a larger Rikon.





Free Fan Vs. Actual CFM Ratings - What's the Difference?


Oneida Air Systems is the first dust collection manufacturer to promote "Actual CFM" ratings which reflect real-world airflow performance - not the vastly inflated "Free-Fan Ratings" of competitors - and we guarantee that our specs are based on actual tes




www.oneida-air.com




.


----------



## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

We have the HF unit with Wynn 0.5 micron filter and it has worked great for us. I usually run one tool at a time and just move the hose to each machine. I do have a fixed PVC line going to the CNC router but I just switch hoses out at the DC when I run the CNC. Our shop is what used to be our two-car garage, so about 20' x 20' overall with about 16' x 20' actual usable space.

David


----------



## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

If you're looking for 1000 CFM with a tool connected you certainly won't get that at 120 V. With the inlet wide open the HFDC will do about 650 CFM.

You need to compare actual fan curves for your options:










The Green line is the system curve for my Jet JJP12 connected with a 10' hose. The BFlux does about 300 CFM with that tool and the HF about 340 CFM. For comparison, I've included the CFlux 1 which does about 420 CFM. Unfortunately it's a bit above your price range and, more importantly, Laguna recommends a 30 A circuit for 120 V operation.

I have a HFDC to which I've added a cartridge filter and an internal baffle to act like Jet's vortex cone. If I had to do it over (at least with the 120 V requirement) I would go with the $600 DC1100VX. The HF fan curve with the baffle is much worse than what's shown in the above chart.

Don't attach too much meaning to the "micron rating" of the filters. Air filters are not rated in microns. There's no industry standard that defines micron ratings like MERV or HEPA. Micron ratings for dust collector filters don't really tell you anything about the efficiency of the filter. Note that Laguna does specify a MERV rating for their filter.

This, from the Wynn Environmental site, is a good read about filter efficiency and ratings.


----------



## DKL (Sep 2, 2020)

HoytC said:


> If you're looking for 1000 CFM with a tool connected you certainly won't get that at 120 V. With the inlet wide open the HFDC will do about 650 CFM.


Thanks, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that adding a few 240 circuits is just something I need to do. It's not that big of an expense, really, and there's plenty of capacity in the panel. Kind of wish I hadn't taken out the dryer circuit when I switched to gas....


----------



## DKL (Sep 2, 2020)

Well, I picked up a very lightly used HF 2hp unit today complete with a wynn filter and oneida cyclone for $300. Obviously, buying a used filter is dicey, but it all looks very clean. It's a starting point, anyway. I will probably just connect it directly to the table saw or router table, depending on which I'm using at the moment.


----------



## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

DKL said:


> Well, I picked up a very lightly used HF 2hp unit today complete with a wynn filter and oneida cyclone for $300. Obviously, buying a used filter is dicey, but it all looks very clean. It's a starting point, anyway. I will probably just connect it directly to the table saw or router table, depending on which I'm using at the moment.


Sounds like a good deal. Please post a photo!


----------



## DKL (Sep 2, 2020)

Here's what I brought home. The cart is crude, but quite sturdy.


----------



## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

That's the 4" SDD, not quite such a good deal, but usable.


----------



## DKL (Sep 2, 2020)

HoytC said:


> That's the 4" SDD, not quite such a good deal, but usable.


Yeah, I noticed that when I got home. The next size up has a 5" inlet, but it's 6" on the top. I wonder if there's a reason they make these with an inlet smaller than the outlet?


----------



## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

"
I wonder if there's a reason they make these with an inlet smaller than the outlet?
"
yes - quite simple. if you have a large "back pressure" on the outlet side, performance suffers.

for a small 16x20 type shop - similar to my basement shop - these systems are utter overkill for a hobbyist.
I use a ShopVac on a remote control fob starter with 2.5 inch hose, manually plugged around - except for the band saw where I installed it's own auto-start 'vacuum on the cart' - which has proven seriously more effective than that OEM "dust port"

if I'm doing something every day, about once a week I need to empty the vac / clean the filter.
important note: I have a 30 gal garbage can with cyclone lid I use (exclusively) for the thickness planner.....
a thickness planer generates huge volumes of chips - I get 20-30 lineal feet of surface planing before the 30 gal bucket needs emptying.

my set up is not workable in a pro-shop running lots of machines 8-10 hours per day.
but that's not my situation. ymmv.


----------



## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

DKL said:


> My shop is in the basement, I have roughly 16x20 feet of floor space that I am slowly building out. I have been using a shop vac and cyclone up until this point. This weekend, I came very close to buying one of the black friday deals I've come across, but as I began to compare specs, I realized I didn't know enough to make a comparison. So I did some research, and came to the following conclusions/specifications:
> 
> Must have a 1 micron cartridge filter. This is my #1 requirement. I noticed that not all cartridge filters are equal, if manufacturer specs are to be believed.
> Must run on 120
> ...


My shop is hard piped with dust collection hooked up to each machine with a blast gate system. I have a cheap ass Top and bottom bagger with a garbage can with a cyclone to collect the chips. Here is what I have experienced over the years with dust collection. Your planer is the biggest feeder of the collector and requires the most suction to keep from bogging down. All the other machines, saws, spindle shaper, jointer, bandsaw do not put out a fraction of the planer. Dust collectors are awesome, but they are not perfect. I still get some sawdust and some airborne dust no matter what kind of dust collector I would use. Therefore the filter capability, to me, is more marketing then reality. I have worked in shops with two story exterior hopper systems and the machines still put out some sawdust, and some airborne dust. If I were to purchase another unit I would be far more concerned with cfm then I would be about filter capability. That is just my experience.


----------



## Logan5 (Dec 11, 2020)

Agreed. 


woodnthings said:


> Even a bare bones HF DC system is better than none.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Logan5 said:


> Agreed.


X2......


----------



## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm still trying to figure out when the good dust collection fairy is going to stop by my place and I can stop using the ol broom and dustpan..


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I have the older green HF 2HP DC, fitted with a Wynn 35a canister filter, and a Wen impeller replacing the undersized stock unit. At this point, I would put it up against any similar design dust collector and come out ahead as I am majorly ahead dollars wise. HOWEVER, My DC is at least 10 years old now, but price while it is up, it isn't THAT far up. 

I don't know if HF still does this, but if you buy the HF 2HP DC, but it when they put it on sale, and combine a 20% off coupon and you can get one heck of a good deal on it. Swap out the filter bag for a 1 micron or less cartridge filter. The Wynn has gotten steep in price though. There is an alternative. Donaldson P181038 at $144.00 on Amazon... Then swap in a Wen impeller, build and isntall a Thien separator baffle and call it good...


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> You are correct in your analysis of the CFM ratings. They are based on the impeller diameter, rpms, and horsepower that spins them. Even a bare bones HF DC system is better than none. BUT there are modifications on You Tube that include the Wynnn cannister filters, and changing the impeller to a larger Rikon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I 100% agree, but need to mention. The Rikon impeller has been unobtanium at least for me for several years. Last I heard they sold for around $120.00 which is kind of counter to the value proposition of the HF DC. I have found that the Wen impeller seems to to identical, or at least functionally identical, readily available, and MUCH less expensive at $35.00. I've had the Wynn filter for years, and just did the Wen impeller mod and am beyond glad I did it. For those wanting the Wen impeller, a fellow user at Sawdustzone.org gave me the following order link that I followed to get mine. https://wenproducts.com/products/340...530916dc&_ss=r 

BTW, loved that video, however, there is a snowballs chance in Houston I am going to go through that much effort to build a full on cyclone rig out of the HF DC when I can just use a Thien baffle and end up with the same result...


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Message to the OP, Obviously the Super Dust Deputy you got isn't exactly what you wanted, but should work well enough, however not why I am responding...

That is an odd dust collector, and appears to be pieces from a couple of units. The Green separator ring, and the gray impeller housing. Not familiar enough with the newer models to know for sure, but assuming that motor / impeller housing.is indeed a Harbor Freight 2HP dust collector, I would seriously consider the impeller upgrade. Your side flip is a great mod especially for a cyclone like that. I am planning on doing the Thien baffle instead though... However if I were staying with a trash can separator I would totally go with your style cart / side flip.


----------



## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

For the money, you probably can’t do better. I would put the bigger cyclone on it and run 6” ducts.. That blower can handle it and I think will perform better.

Don‘t use 4” ducts it will drastically degrade performance on that size blower.

I’m running a “temporary” set up (4 years running) which is a Jet 1100 blower on a SDD and 6” ducts. It’s worked well enough I haven’t yet bought the Clear Vue 1800 I think I need.


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

DrRobert said:


> For the money, you probably can’t do better. I would put the bigger cyclone on it and run 6” ducts.. That blower can handle it and I think will perform better.
> 
> Don‘t use 4” ducts it will drastically degrade performance on that size blower.
> 
> I’m running a “temporary” set up (4 years running) which is a Jet 1100 blower on a SDD and 6” ducts. It’s worked well enough I haven’t yet bought the Clear Vue 1800 I think I need.


Without a doubt I too would prefer a nice big Clear Vue. I would also prefer a new Escalade instead of my 15 year old Malibu.  

Anyway, yeah that is what I am thinking. Good thing too. I have a friend that has and is willing to give me 3 joints of 10' 6" S&D pipe, and 3 6x4 branch wyes. Need some 45s and I need to figure out how to drop the lower run to pick up from the bottom of the table saw and the router table.


----------



## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

dbhost said:


> Without a doubt I too would prefer a nice big Clear Vue. I would also prefer a new Escalade instead of my 15 year old Malibu.
> 
> Anyway, yeah that is what I am thinking. Good thing too. I have a friend that has and is willing to give me 3 joints of 10' 6" S&D pipe, and 3 6x4 branch wyes. Need some 45s and I need to figure out how to drop the lower run to pick up from the bottom of the table saw and the router table.


Reduce the 6 down to 4. An aluminum blast gate will fit right in the 4", then 4" flex to the machine.


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

DrRobert said:


> Reduce the 6 down to 4. An aluminum blast gate will fit right in the 4", then 4" flex to the machine.


I currently have a 5" Thien 55 gallon drum separator, that shoots off to a 5x4x4 splitter to dual 4" mains currently. I Have 6 4" blast gates already.

My plan to improve performance, and reduce space usage is to migrate to an in the separator ring Thien baffle, eliminate the drum, and upsize to 6" main with 4" drops as close as possible to the machines. And honestly, the upsizing may have to wait until I finish migrating from my garage workshop to the design phase shed workshop.

The 4" blast gates fit somewhat loosely inside 4" S&D PVC. I connect them with clear silicone and rivets. Most of the joints are silicone and rivets to allow me to separate joints and reconfigure at some point.

Back to some thoughts for the OP...

Let's break down some basics on costs...


Central Machinery 70 gallon 2HP dust collector. $209.99 current sale price. 70 gallon 2 HP High Flow High Capacity Dust Collector

The Donaldson air filter comes in at $159.00, considerably less than the Wynn 35a. https://amzn.to/3rxTAwu You are going to need to figure out how to attach it. My old Wynn 35a used 3 small turnbuckles on the inside of the filter / separator ring. Probably $15.00 at Ace Hardware... A new Wynn 35a nano will run you at least $300.00 after shipping.

Assuming they come back in stock soon, the Wen 3403-22 Turbofan (impeller) runs $35.00 shipped. I've posted the link around here somewhere, not sure where though...

Anyway, you will likely be in for a few bucks over $500.00 when cartridge and upgraded impeller are added. And count your blessings, the new ones are industrial gray instead of that lousy old green...

Can you get a competing 2HP dust collector with a 12" impeller, and merv 15 .5 micron filtration cartridge filter? Don't worry too much about name brands as they all build them kind of lousy these days unless you are going BIG and high dollar.

As close as you are likely to get is to start with the Wen 3403 and add a cartridge filter. The Wen is currently $220.00 higher, but of course already has the Wen impeller installed, so count it a $185.00 premium.

I've priced up 6" metal ducting for 8 drops, with reducers to get to 4", not counting hose, or blast gates you will be in for about $365.00 with sensible shopping and using regular duct strapping instead of the rigid U hangers...

Blast gates should run you for 8 drops another maybe $100.00, And another $100.00 for 50' of 4" hose. Lastly $84.00 for squeeze clamps for the hose.

So you should be able to manage to get it all in under $1.3K, I am not certain if you had considered ducting, blast gates etc... in your budget, but for that size shop, with 8 4 inch drops that is what you are looking at. Oh that also includes upsizing the flange to 6"...


----------

