# NOS Craftsman 113 table saw. Keep or sell



## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

Hey guys. 



My neighbor just gave me a unused, half assembled Craftsman 113.298844 table saw. So I think I can call that as near to NOS as you can get. 



It's been sitting in his shed since 1997. He started assembling it while doing a basement remodel. At some point he was using a miter saw and cut the end of his thumb off. So ended his wood working. 



It's buried in his shed so I couldn't get a good look. But I can tell it's brand new. Hell the motor has never been put on. It has the 3hp 120/240 motor.



I know I can do all the upgrades and make this a decent saw. It would more than meet my needs. But all the info I'm finding is old. Is upgrading this one still the way to go vs getting something newer. May used even. 



My son seems to think I can sell this for enough to get some thing better. But I don't agree. What could I get for it. $300-$400 maybe?


I'd just assume upgrade this one. Heck. I may not even do that. 



I know the first thing guys do is upgrade the fence. I'm not sure if this is the real bad one. It is a steel fence. But it has the geared micro adjust I guess you call it. Is this fence one that needs replaced?



I'm open for suggestions on keep or sell. And if I keep it what upgrades are guys doing these days. 



I can't bring it home until he cleans his shed and I clean my basement. But I did grab the motor, and squeezed my phone in beside it for a pic,,,lol.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Nice score, keep it.*

You won't get that much for it and you will make more with it that you think. If it has the geared fence, the same as I had on my older Craftsman 100, that's not a bad fence. You pull out the gear knob for gross movements then push it in for fine tuning. The issue was the push down lock acted on both the front and rear of the table edges unlike the newer fences which only lock on a rail on the front. If you can get it working accurately you will like it. 



That's a rare find, NOS for sure. If you do set it all up and find out you hate it, THEN you can sell it as almost never used. When the buyer says "Why are you selling it?" make up something believable or put a huge bandage around your thumb....? :wink:


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

If you need a table saw, set it up and use it. If you think something needs an upgrade then evaluate it based on cost. I am reasonably sure that has the angle iron rails and whatever they call that fence. That was prior to the 24/24 and align-a-rip fences. I had a 113.298843 here, still have the manual. The 44 model must have some subtle differences. It may have the long rails and extra extensions (3 or 4). Surely unique. I would be interested in knowing how many extensions came with it.


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## unburled (Mar 10, 2019)

from the looks of the pulley and the ends motor mount rods and the stains on the paperwork, I'd anticipate a lot of rust all over.


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

Well I brought it home. I actually put it in the back of my lawn mower trailer and brought it from across the street.,,,lol. Wished I would have thought to take a pic of it in the trailer. 


So all though it's not like new, it's not as bad as some of the stuff you could find. I think I better take it all the way down and clean it up and make sure it's put together right. Can you guys watch the video and confirm this is a crappy fence that I should replace. Thanks.


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## Brookeville (Mar 18, 2019)

Hi, Quick Cal!

Just read your post on the free Craftsman Table Saw. What a coincidence. I just purchased the '94 Version of this same saw along with several other pieces of equip. I am putting together a new shop in my new get-away place in No. California. I was lucky enough to find the 3HP version with a Biesemeyer(Delta) upgraded fence. From the research I did before my purchase, I did learn that the Delta fence is one of the better upgrades for this Craftsman. 

Have you started up the motor yet? If not, you might want to very closely inspect the motor mounting bracket. I did some research and apparently on some of the 3-HP models(not exactly sure which years but definitely 80s - 90s) the motor mounting bracket used by Craftsman was not quite up to the task! Specifically the mount was bending too easily(probably during belt tensioning/adjusting) which occasionally led to the motor shaft getting un-parallel to the blade arbor shaft, and THAT led to the two pulleys getting out of alignment. The poor alignment syndrome apparently led some users with loose/poor condition pulleys to having the motor pulley come flying off of the motor shaft . OOPS! ONLY reason I mention this is that your specific circumstance (no motor yet mounted, I think?) MAY be the perfect opportunity for you to check this out and maybe re-evaluate things, i.e., Do you STILL want to assemble this sucker and spend money upgrading OR (and I have NO idea how much work is required to replace the motor mount) in your case, IF the inside of the unused motor has issues, do you even want to risk chasing good money after bad? I PROMISE, I'm NOT trying to rain on your parade of apparent good fortune in being given a basically unused 20 year-old 3HP table saw. Just trying to save you some potential aggravation, some of which I, too, may be facing!
That said, If you do go forward with the final assembly and upgrade. Maybe we can help each other with the info learned. 
Any way, GOOD LUCK with the rust removal and final re-assembly! (Naval Jelly & lots of 00/000 steel wool maybe? )

I'll watch the forum for your progress if you decide to share it!

best, Stan ("Brookeville")


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## canarywood1 (Jun 9, 2016)

,Just a heads up on those motors, they are NOT 3HP,probaly lucky if they are 1 HP.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*rusty bottom .....*

The rust only on the underneath portion of the table and trunnion motor mout tells me that the tio was somehow protected with Boeshield or other substance. A complete tear down will be a good idea and not all that complicated except ..... realigning the trunnion back to being parallel to the miter slots. You do have the advantage of being able to sit the saw on it's back end and thereby access both sides of the top to measure as well as tighten and pry at the assembly for alignment, a BIG advantage!


I like what I see so far and think you'll be happy with the saw. Just remember to pull out the micro adjustment knob BEFORE sliding the fence. Wire up the motor to a switch and plug before you mount it to test it first. White wires do not go to the switch for a 120 operation, only the black ones...... line voltage from the wall comes in, switched power goes out to the motor.


:vs_cool:


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

Brookeville said:


> Hi, Quick Cal!
> 
> Just read your post on the free Craftsman Table Saw. What a coincidence. I just purchased the '94 Version of this same saw along with several other pieces of equip. I am putting together a new shop in my new get-away place in No. California. I was lucky enough to find the 3HP version with a Biesemeyer(Delta) upgraded fence. From the research I did before my purchase, I did learn that the Delta fence is one of the better upgrades for this Craftsman.
> 
> ...





Nothing put together yet. Thanks for the heads up on the motor mount. How do I tell if it has an issue?


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

canarywood1 said:


> ,Just a heads up on those motors, they are NOT 3HP,probaly lucky if they are 1 HP.



Don't know if I can believe the ebay seller. But he had the same motor for sale saying it was 1.5/3 hp.


Isn't there some formula you can use and times the amps by something,,,lol


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> The rust only on the underneath portion of the table and trunnion motor mout tells me that the tio was somehow protected with Boeshield or other substance. A complete tear down will be a good idea and not all that complicated except ..... realigning the trunnion back to being parallel to the miter slots. You do have the advantage of being able to sit the saw on it's back end and thereby access both sides of the top to measure as well as tighten and pry at the assembly for alignment, a BIG advantage!
> 
> 
> I like what I see so far and think you'll be happy with the saw. Just remember to pull out the micro adjustment knob BEFORE sliding the fence. Wire up the motor to a switch and plug before you mount it to test it first. White wires do not go to the switch for a 120 operation, only the black ones...... line voltage from the wall comes in, switched power goes out to the motor.
> ...



There doesn't appear to be any kind of chemical on the top. But I guess after 22 years it could have wore off,,,lol. But he did have towels on the top. 



As far as aligning goes. Is that where the PALS kit would come in. I'm on a really tight budget but I may spring for that if it's really needed. 



The micro adjust knob doesn't seem to be working right. I have to go look because I don't think I need to pull it out to move the fence freely. I think I have to pull it out to get it to turn. I gotta go see,,,lol.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

craftsman table saws are about the most common table saw on this forum. i bought mine new in 1982 and have used it as is since. are there better saws out there? of course there are. but yours is free and works fine. 
as for 3 hp? craftsman has used the same basic 1 hp motor on their table saws for years. a true 3 hp, 120 volt motor would draw 34 amps. your saw probably has a 1 hp, 120 volt motor and draws right at 16 amps. same as mine and everyone else's.


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

Does anyone know the formula to figure the hp?


You can look at the data tag in my first post.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Yes*

1 HP is equal to 746 watts:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+many+watts+us+1+HP


Watts is equal to the VOLTs X the AMPs


So, 120 VOLTs X 8 AMPs equals 960 WATTS
then 240 VOLTs X 4 AMPs equals 960 WATTS


A 120 VOLT circuit with a 20 AMP breaker will carry 2400 WATTS.


A "3 HP" electric motor can not run on a 120 V 20 Amp circuit. That rating is bogus. Even a 2 HP motor will strain on a 20 AMP circuit.
Then is there is difference between starting AMPs and running AMPs.
If you want to get a true reading of the power, get a Kill a Watt meter:
https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> ! HP is equal to 746 watts:
> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+many+watts+us+1+HP
> 
> 
> ...



Is your first key stroke supposed to be a 1 and not an exclamation point,,,lol.


The data tag reads:


V=120/240
A= 13/6.5


What does this tell us,,,lol


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I fixed the typo!*



Quick Cal said:


> Is your first key stroke supposed to be a 1 and not an exclamation point,,,lol.
> 
> 
> The data tag reads:
> ...



It means that on 120 V it will draw 13 amps and on 240, half of that. 

The WATTS remains the same at 1560 watts. :vs_cool:


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> It means that on 120 V it will draw 13 amps and on 240, half of that.
> 
> The WATTS remains the same at 1560 watts. :vs_cool:



So is 1560 =2.09hp?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*yep, on a good day ...*

1560 divided by 746 = 2.09 



Doesn't that run a tingle up your leg? OR make your hair stand on end? That's shear raw power! :surprise2:


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Worth mentioning, in the whole "watts to horsepower" conversion conversation, the nameplate on a motor will tell you how much power it _consumes_, not how much it puts out. In a perfect world, an electric motor would require 6.21 amps at 120 volts AC to put out 1hp (746 watts). Sadly, we do not live in a perfect world, and things like friction and resistance exist, so in reality a motor that puts out 1hp worth of power will draw more power than that in electricity. 

A good rule of thumb ive found for electric motors is 1hp = 10 amps of current at 120v. Theres a bit of swing in either directions, ive seen 1hp motors with 8-11 amps listed on the nameplate, but again, its a rule of thumb and not an ironclad rule. Itll get you close enough for woodworkings sake


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## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

I have a similar saw. Added PALS and the alignment is very accurate. Upgraded the pulleys. The Delta T2/T3 fences are a good not too expensive upgrade (might have to re-drill the holes in the Delta rails to match the Craftsman's holes). Also add a link belt.
These are good saws. Mine has a 1 hp motor and with a good blade will rip 8/4 red Oak with no problem.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

That's a nice saw. I have two similar Emerson Electric made in the USA saws that I opted to keep and sell the 3hp unisaw I refurbished. That saw's dual voltage motor is probably close to 1.5 hp and, properly aligned with the proper blade, will handle anything a hobbyist wants to throw at it. The OEM fences on those C-man saws were not the best but were certainly up to hobbyist woodworking. Fine furniture can be turned out on it. My suggestion is to get an owners manual and read it *carefully*. I had alignment problems with my Ridgid 2412 (same basic saw as yours built by Emerson Electric) until I read the OM. Now it performs flawlessly. It is as accurate and reliable as the Delta T2 I have on my own 113 C-man. 

Regarding alignment, remember to pick ONE miter slot and use it for aligning the blade and fence. First, align the blade to the miter slot. Then, using the same miter slot, align the fence to the miter slot. Your TS is a contractor saw with trunions hung from the underside of the table but this video should help get you started on how to set up the saw:






Also, remember to check that the arbor pulley and the motor pulley are coplanar. Very important to reduce table saw vibration. Here's a brief video of a nickel test I did on my C-man 113 doing a 45° bevel rip:






And yes, removing my hand from the work piece when I did was certainly not one of the brightest things I've ever done, but it does indicate how well aligned the saw was.

Resist the impulse to start adding things to your saw. PALS are not needed to align the blade to the miter slot. The fence will work well, provided it's registered against the front rail before engaging the clamping handle. The fact that it clamps to both the front and rear rail means it should be rock solid.

Get a good 40 tooth general purpose blade and a good 24 tooth rip blade and there's nothing that saw won't handle in your shop. I've ripped 8/4 hardwoods on my 1HP C-man with ease. It just won't do it with the speed of a 3HP cabinet saw, but you're not in a professional shop either. Be safe and have fun.


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

My kid is trying to talk me into getting rid of this for something else. He wants me to set up something like the Paulk system using a more portable saw. 

He brings up a couple of valid points. Dust collection and a riving knife. And then there's the mobility thing. 

The dust collect is the most important part to me. I think I'm setting up shop in my basement. I plan on using a dust deputy that I all ready have. Can this be adapted to the craftsman.


I just hate the thought of cheap, plastic, lightweight tools. But I'm no expert,,,lol. They may be far superior to the old stuff. 



So what's your guy's thoughts. Thanks.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

I had to google who Paulk was, so keep that in mind as you read this.

What you have right now, for free, is not found in any of the table saws I saw in photos of the "Paulk system".

You have an American made cast iron table with a cast iron trunion. Those sturdy elements are not found in the aluminum plastic portable table saws made in China today. That's right. The even the Bosch table saw is made in China, out of plastic and aluminum. As is the DeWalt, Milwaukee, Skil, etc.

If you NEED portability (and it sounds like your kid needs more portability than you do), then follow your kid's advice, because you already know how hard it is to heft around your cast iron table and trunion, even without the overhanging outboard motor attached.

But if you plan for the saw to get set up and stay put, then you can easily remove the splayed legs on your Sears saw, and mount the business portion of the saw into a Paulk like workstation in the same relative position as the online photos depict the portable saws mating to his system. Forum member Woodnthings dispensed with the original legs on all three of his Sears saws, and built his own stands for them, incorporating them into a multi machine workstation system of his own design, called Sawzilla. 

Dust control is a challenge on any table saw, but not a challenge that has been shied away from. Thousands of posts and videos produced by hundreds of woodworkers, hobbiests, and youtube star hopefuls... provide a treasure trove of ideas from which you can draw to fabricate your own dust control contraptions underneath and to the rear of your table saw. Making your own legs, or your own sub cabinet, can make the incorporation of dust capture all the more easier.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the surface rust on the underside of the cast iron if I needed/wanted to use the table saw right away. Disassembling and restoring the machine to pristine, with all the original manuals, original accessories, no hours, matching serial numbers, and original box it came from Sears in to boot will not net you that much more for the saw to reward the effort. There are simply too many of them out there that are available for exactly what you paid for yours... free. Most are sold for the $100 range. I paid $100 for a contractor saw very similar to yours, but with a sturdier cabinet, just to cannibalize the fence off of it (see my response to your other concurrent thread). I can put an original Craftsman fence back on it, and sell it for $95. I haven't, because the motor alone is worth more to ME than that, but not worth anything to most people who don't tinker.

Your kid is right, in that genuine contractors who travel from jobsite to jobsite have absolutely no interest in your "Contractor" saw. More and more, contractors cut sheet goods with portable track saws, which are far more portable and compact than the plastic/aluminum contraptions on wheels that make up today's portfolio of table saws.

So it really boils down to how and where and why you plan to cut wood, the wood you plan to cut, and purpose for which you are cutting it. Those decisions are independent of a new old stock score on a "classic" table saw that is too large and heavy to be relevant in today's construction trade, and too cheap and plentiful to be of great value in the vintage trade. It could be that the most sensible way to benefit from your neighbors gift is to use it yourself. That might make for good relations with your neighbor too, rather than you flipping what he gave you for a few bucks.


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## Quick Cal (Nov 30, 2015)

Mad said:


> I had to google who Paulk was, so keep that in mind as you read this.
> 
> What you have right now, for free, is not found in any of the table saws I saw in photos of the "Paulk system".
> 
> ...





Wow. That's a mouthful. Thanks for all that.


Just to clarify a couple of things. My kid is 35 and thinks he's the dad. He has his own place. We started off a couple of years ago with HIM wanting to build a wood shop in my basement. He bought the same saw as mine, a bunch of older heavy duty tools like a delta band saw. Did all the cool mods to His craftsman saw. Never finished setting up shop. 



He then drug it all to his big garage. It all just sat for awhile. Then he had to have all the new cool guy stuff. Hated moving the craftsman around. Now he has a triton table saw. Still hasn't cut a board,,,lol. But I know it's because his garage has just not been cleaned and set up. But I will say this. Just this week end he was working on the garage and made a lot of room to set things up. We'll see. 



My immediate need for the table saw is to do french cleat stuff. He talked me into that too. Man. Gotta have this,,,,lol. Now he's off that system. This week end he scored some shelving out of a closing walgreens. So no more french cleats for him. 



So much for him. Sorry.


As far as my neighbor goes. It was his idea right off the bat for me to sell the saw to get some cash. He knows my money is tight being on disability. He throws me a bone once in a while. He really don't care if I keep it or sell it. 



But I always did want a nice wood shop,,,lol.


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## evilboweivel (Nov 3, 2018)

"But I always did want a nice wood shop,,,lol."

That Craftsman saw is a nice start, clean it up enough to use it.
Once you use it then decide what mods to make to it.
Dust collection, cabinet under it and machined pulleys with linked belt would be a good start.
I did some good work with a way cheaper table saw back in the early 80's, then a Delta Contractors saw with some mods, now have a SawStop 5hp. Yes life is easier now and have way more tools to work with. However that old JCPenney saw with composite top taught me a lot and did some good work, just slow and a lot more time spent locking fence down and checking accuracy.


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## D_Franco (Sep 25, 2020)

Quick Cal said:


> Nothing put together yet. Thanks for the heads up on the motor mount. How do I tell if it has an issue?


I inherited this table saw from the previous owner where I live and I can attest to this.
The pulley on the motor is misaligned and the belt is rubbing on the side. I have three table saws, so don't use it too much, but for small jobs this table saw is perfect... sans the eminent disaster with the pulley.


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## rogerh (Sep 13, 2020)

I was just wondering how you made out with your free table saw. It looks like a good saw to me. 

I have been using a 1970s model Sears table saw for 50 years and have had very little problem. But my saw hasn’t seen any rust.

Roger


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## ajdragon (Jul 26, 2017)

Hi


From the looks of it, all he needed was some rust converter and a little bit of steel wool.


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## Big is all you need (Mar 23, 2021)

unburled said:


> from the looks of the pulley and the ends motor mount rods and the stains on the paperwork, I'd anticipate a lot of rust all over.


Your an expert lmao!


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## Big is all you need (Mar 23, 2021)

Quick Cal said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just got one today it’s like brand new has maybe been used once or twice it’s a beast well-made super accurate I really like it it


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