# Two questions about bed frames



## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

I know I've already asked a ton of questions about my bed build but have a couple more before I get started! Hopefully you guys aren't sick of me yet.

I'm going to go pick up a bunch of sheets of birch plywood this weekend and I am trying to put together a cut list and figure out what pieces to cut from what sheets and came up with a couple more questions. Here are the beds I am building if you haven't seen my last posts.









Here is a picture of the same bed but instead of the dressers under it has a pull out bed, put this up to show how the underside is open.









My first question is about supporting the bed so it won't "rack" if the kids are jumping on them. The one at the store just has a 1x6" or so piece of ply from headboard to footboard at the floor. I tried to do a picture of it to show what I mean but my paint skills aren't the best!









But I'm not so sure that will give a lot of support. I had another thought of a support that will go from floor to bed and from head to foot board with a half circle cut out of it, think of a bridge design.









So what are your thoughts on supports. I want to make these strong. I realise the stairs will help against racking but to me it still seemed weak?

Secondly, I've never built a bed so not sure how to support the mattress? Thinking about just screwing some 2x2s to the bed sides and then run some 1xs across them for the mattress to sit on. Any advice on hos this is done would be much appreciated.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

For some reason the pictures aren't showing up for me but if I click on them they show. Not sure what is going on.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

With my internet the pictures won't show even when you click on it. 
About all I can offer without the pictures is when you shop for plywood be sure you don't buy Chinese plywood. They must use some really bad glue because the stuff is prone to delaminate.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> With my internet the pictures won't show even when you click on it.
> About all I can offer without the pictures is when you shop for plywood be sure you don't buy Chinese plywood. They must use some really bad glue because the stuff is prone to delaminate.


Nonsense. Just be careful when making selections of your wood. You can pretty easily tell where there are large voids and whether or not the wood is stable or going to delam easily just by a 1 minute inspection.

As for the design, I would go with the arch at the back edge simply because your kid is going to want to play under the bed and having the 1x6 at the center like that is going to inhibit that play. I'd dare say you could just use a simple 1x6 at the back edge, though, if you don't want to do it with yet another sheet of ply. If you do use ply, you could do some fun designs with a scroll saw or do something like painting it with "chalkboard paint" so that it doubles as part of the play area. It will be incredibly heavy if you use ply for that though, compared to just a 1x6.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> With my internet the pictures won't show even when you click on it.
> About all I can offer without the pictures is when you shop for plywood be sure you don't buy Chinese plywood. They must use some really bad glue because the stuff is prone to delaminate.


Not sure what's going on with the pictures I will try uploading them again.

The USA ply is only about 7 bucks more then the china made stuff a sheet so I was planning on getting the USA ply.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

frankp said:


> Nonsense. Just be careful when making selections of your wood. You can pretty easily tell where there are large voids and whether or not the wood is stable or going to delam easily just by a 1 minute inspection.
> 
> As for the design, I would go with the arch at the back edge simply because your kid is going to want to play under the bed and having the 1x6 at the center like that is going to inhibit that play. I'd dare say you could just use a simple 1x6 at the back edge, though, if you don't want to do it with yet another sheet of ply. If you do use ply, you could do some fun designs with a scroll saw or do something like painting it with "chalkboard paint" so that it doubles as part of the play area. It will be incredibly heavy if you use ply for that though, compared to just a 1x6.


Did the pictures work for you?


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

The back you show would not have to be that thick, 1/4 or 3/8 would be sufficient as the bed frame will also add stability.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

frankp said:


> As for the design, I would go with the arch at the back edge simply because your kid is going to want to play under the bed and having the 1x6 at the center like that is going to inhibit that play. I'd dare say you could just use a simple 1x6 at the back edge, though, if you don't want to do it with yet another sheet of ply. If you do use ply, you could do some fun designs with a scroll saw or do something like painting it with "chalkboard paint" so that it doubles as part of the play area. It will be incredibly heavy if you use ply for that though, compared to just a 1x6.





FrankC said:


> The back you show would not have to be that thick, 1/4 or 3/8 would be sufficient as the bed frame will also add stability.


Here is a link to the bed I am going to copy, http://www.ashleyfurniture.com/Show...x?PageId=Showroom&SetDomTab=1&ItemNo=B233-68T. Here is another version that has a pull out bed instead of the dressers, http://www.ashleyfurniture.com/Show...x?PageId=Showroom&SetDomTab=1&ItemNo=B233-68B. I'm going with dressers on both sides so the support will be in the middle and not the back. The one at the store just had a 1x6" or so at floor level in the middle of the head/foot boards. I'm thinking an arch type sheet of plywood would give a lot more support.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

frankp said:


> Nonsense. Just be careful when making selections of your wood. You can pretty easily tell where there are large voids and whether or not the wood is stable or going to delam easily just by a 1 minute inspection.
> 
> As for the design, I would go with the arch at the back edge simply because your kid is going to want to play under the bed and having the 1x6 at the center like that is going to inhibit that play. I'd dare say you could just use a simple 1x6 at the back edge, though, if you don't want to do it with yet another sheet of ply. If you do use ply, you could do some fun designs with a scroll saw or do something like painting it with "chalkboard paint" so that it doubles as part of the play area. It will be incredibly heavy if you use ply for that though, compared to just a 1x6.


Actually this is what I have been experiencing with Chinese plywood. The saw horse is about three years old now. It has been exposed to humidity but it hasn't been wet. I suspended using Chinese plywood in 2009 when I built a cabinet job and had the plywood delaminating before it left the shop. Some of it I had to rebuild but the side of a oven cabinet that faced the wall had a bubble in it about 2' in diameter.


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## ewryter (Oct 20, 2012)

The stairs will help against racking as will the mattress and box spring use some 1x3 strapping across the bedframe to support the box spring. I would fasten them with sheetrock screws to those 2x2's you mentioned so they don't move with the afore mentioned jumping. My kids did that and on landed on top of the other one with the mattress and one of those thin box springs that are used for bunk beds alot. They had so much fun.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

ponch37300 said:


> Did the pictures work for you?


Yes the pictures worked for me on my work computer and here at home...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I finally got the pictures to open. Your biggest problem as I see your project is your going to have to make everything where it comes apart so you can get it in and out of the room. From what I can see the bed is about 40" deep and about the same height and about 8' long. The part that holds the mattress you could maybe make the front and back of that section with a bottom frame between that which holds the mattress in one piece and make it removable from the ends. You could then use standard bed hardware to attach it to the end panels. I think the one end opposite the stairs probably needs to have a thicker end, perhaps a frame beefing it up. As far as supporting the mattress if you were building a plain old fashion bed then a rail down each side with three hardwood slats would hold a box spring and mattress. If you are going for just a mattress then a additional sheet of 3/4" plywood would be enough. I believe I would make a frame out of 1 1/2"x 1 1/2" wood like a which looks something like a ladder and cover the bottom side with 1/4" plywood. Then you could set it in place and screw it to the sides and ends. After that you could just lay a loose piece of 1/2" plywood on top to support the mattress.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> I finally got the pictures to open. Your biggest problem as I see your project is your going to have to make everything where it comes apart so you can get it in and out of the room. From what I can see the bed is about 40" deep and about the same height and about 8' long. The part that holds the mattress you could maybe make the front and back of that section with a bottom frame between that which holds the mattress in one piece and make it removable from the ends. You could then use standard bed hardware to attach it to the end panels. I think the one end opposite the stairs probably needs to have a thicker end, perhaps a frame beefing it up. As far as supporting the mattress if you were building a plain old fashion bed then a rail down each side with three hardwood slats would hold a box spring and mattress. If you are going for just a mattress then a additional sheet of 3/4" plywood would be enough. I believe I would make a frame out of 1 1/2"x 1 1/2" wood like a which looks something like a ladder and cover the bottom side with 1/4" plywood. Then you could set it in place and screw it to the sides and ends. After that you could just lay a loose piece of 1/2" plywood on top to support the mattress.


Thanks for you post Steve. Lots to think about! I wish I could draw better to get across what I am thinking! For the center support under the bed that will go from the haed to foot board I was planning on using a combination of wood dowels(not glued) and metal cross dowels to hold it all together. I was also planning on doing this for the sides(rails) also but after seeing you page of bed frame parts I think I might go with the heavy duty rail connectors.


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

The arch you show IMO would definitely be stronger than the board in other pic.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

For what it's worth, you really only need to be able to knock down the rails from the head/foot board. And maybe be able to take the bed off the drawers, though that's not absolutely necessary. You can do either with lag bolts, if you don't want to get too fancy.


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## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

frankp said:


> For what it's worth, you really only need to be able to knock down the rails from the head/foot board. And maybe be able to take the bed off the drawers, though that's not absolutely necessary. You can do either with lag bolts, if you don't want to get too fancy.


 
Lag bolts to go into the edge of plywood? I wouldn't think those would hold to well. 

I'm thinking aobut using a set of these, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2003269/3200/bed-rail-fastener.aspx. But not sure if they will "lock" or provide a joint that is solid so when the kids are crawling on the bed it will keep things from moving. Otherwise I will stick with the metal cross dowels to provide an actual "mechanical" fastened joint. The only thing nice about the rail fasteners is they don't show from the outside. Which isn't a huge deal just kind of nice.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

ponch37300 said:


> Lag bolts to go into the edge of plywood? I wouldn't think those would hold to well.
> 
> I'm thinking aobut using a set of these, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2003269/3200/bed-rail-fastener.aspx. But not sure if they will "lock" or provide a joint that is solid so when the kids are crawling on the bed it will keep things from moving. Otherwise I will stick with the metal cross dowels to provide an actual "mechanical" fastened joint. The only thing nice about the rail fasteners is they don't show from the outside. Which isn't a huge deal just kind of nice.


Sorry, I was assuming the frame portion would actually have some "2 by" somewhere. I was also actually thinking of carriage bolts, with nuts on the back, but those wouldn't work so well on edge for either ply or "2 by"s without a lot of extra work. I think those bed rail fasteners would be a good choice.


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