# SawStop



## Locodcdude (Oct 24, 2010)

I would like to share with you guy's my experience using the SawStop table saw.

My school woodshop has the Sawstop in it to prevent kids from making mistakes. I think it is good to have in a school environment where kids are still learning the basics of a table saw, and so they have a little less to worry about.
My issues with the saw.
I think kids tend to get a little lackadaisical when it comes to the table saw now, because they think, "Well it won't cut my fingers off, i'll be fine". What if it malfunctions? What if a kick back? I think that it just makes them lass aware of the still existing dangers of the Table saw. I think that this saw is not engineered as well as a Delta, Powermatic, or a Jet. It just seems like it wasn't drawn up very well, and could use revisions to make it seem like it's more heavy duty like the Delta, or Powermatic saws. It seems that the dust collection on this saw stinks. It seems like after one hour of use, it needs to be cleaned out. I know we are using it in a school and it's being used a lot, but for the amount that it collects, and the amount that ends up on the table, or on the user, it doesn't do a very good job, as it claims. All in all, I dislike the table saw, for price, quality, and dust collection. I do know that fingers cost more than the difference between Sawstop and your average saw, but to me, if you're careful and aware about what can happen behind a tablesaw, you shouldn't have an accident.

What I like about the saw.
The saw is safe, it does prevent you from cutting any part of your body off from what the company says. It has a nice heavy duty cast iron table, and easy to use t square style fence. It is just a little bit more insurance that kids in a schooling environment will not have an accident on the saw pertaining to cutting them selves.

All in all, the sawstop is a good investment for a school or multi-person shop environment in my opinion. For a home shop, or small business, I don't think I would invest in one. Like I said earlier, If you are careful, use the right push sticks, and techniques when you're behind the saw, you shouldn't have an accident. It's just second nature using a table saw no a day's. Keeping your fingers clear of the blade, and using push sticks when necessary.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Locodcdude I will only say that after 20 years experience safely using a table saw, It only takes one time and one second even with pushsticks and such. If anyone uses a SawStop and thinks they don't need to respect the saw there crazy and deserve what they get.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Well, I don't see any reason you need to inform them that the saw will do what it does. Just tell them that it is a normal saw and it is very dangerous and to treat it as such. If someone does slip, the fact that they don't know that it will retract won't make a difference, the saw will do it's job. If they think it can hurt them it will keep them on their toes more so than if they know they can't really get hurt bad.


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## Locodcdude (Oct 24, 2010)

I do know that accidents can happen, and thousands of people experience them every year. It's sad to see a woodworker have to hang up their apron because they have lost fingers or hands because of a table saw. All I'm saying here is that because it has the name behind it, kids tend to thing that nothing can go wrong with it, so they tend to relax more when they are operating it. Kick back can still happen, and the saw can still malfunction.
I AM NOT PERSUADING ANYONE BY SAYING THE FOLLOWING
Same thing with blade guards, Personally I don't use one on my saw, because I like to be able to see where exactly my fingers are around the blade. If the blade guard is there, I feel like I am closer to the blade than I might actually be. Plus if the guard is on my saw, will it actually protect me that much more? If I slip the guard isn't going to stop my fingers from going it, it will allow them to pass through it just as easy as if they we're pieces of wood. Which there again, to each his own. I just like being able to see everything where it's at, and knowing that I'm safe, rather than "guessing" if i'm close to the blade or not. If you don't use a guard, I think riving knives or splitters are a HUGE deal to have.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Well, I don't see any reason you need to inform them that the saw will do what it does. Just tell them that it is a normal saw and it is very dangerous and to treat it as such. If someone does slip, the fact that they don't know that it will retract won't make a difference, the saw will do it's job. If they think it can hurt them it will keep them on their toes more so than if they know they can't really get hurt bad.


Leo,
That is the most intelligent thing that I have ever seen about SawStop.

An instructor, much smarter than I, said that if a student learns how to use a table saw safely, they are safe on every table saw. This is at a school where there has not been a digit loss.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I have my moments.:laughing:


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

I tend to disagree, its like telling a teenager, or anybody for that matter that the seatbelt in the car is there to keep you from being ejected and will keep you safe. A driver is still going to be cautious when driving even with it on. I consider myself a very good driver, my wife will tell you different, but I still wear the safety belt. Even though I am a good driver, in my mind, the world isn't perfect and outside factors can still cause me to crash. Same with using a table saw, I can be safe all day long, but any minor outside force can put you in the emergency room in the blink of an eye. I have a Sawstop, I have been using it for about a year or so now, I still respect it every time that switch goes into the on position. 

As far as the DC I find mine to be very good, better than my Jet certainly but the Jet was old and didn't have a dust shroud. If I am ripping plywood with the blade up and no guard you will get some spray back but I find thats the case with any table saw with a ZC insert. If I put the Sawstop overarm DC blade guard on I get 0 dust. What DC setup are you guys running?


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## Rider351 (Aug 11, 2018)

Locodcdude said:


> I would like to share with you guy's my experience using the SawStop table saw.
> 
> My school woodshop has the Sawstop in it to prevent kids from making mistakes. I think it is good to have in a school environment where kids are still learning the basics of a table saw, and so they have a little less to worry about.
> My issues with the saw.
> ...


I think it is sad that the Sawstop group will not share their patent for the blade system with other manufacturers that make much much better saws. My Powermatic cuts circles around the Sawstop but you must be careful as you should be with all tools.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Rider351 said:


> I think it is sad that the Sawstop group will not share their patent for the blade system with other manufacturers that make much much better saws. My Powermatic cuts circles around the Sawstop but you must be careful as you should be with all tools.


How does it cut circles around a Sawstop? It doesn't cut any better than a Sawstop, Unisaw, or Grizzly.......


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Its common knowledge aside from the safety feature SS is just as good or better than any of the major brands.. The T glide fence system runs circles around the Xacta fence on my Jet. And they have managed to keep them priced competitively, in fact much cheaper than PM.

I don’t understand the naive notion that SS should push the self destruct button and let its patent go public. 

I‘m sure Powematic could invent their own, no doubt it would turn their $5000 saw into a $7000 one. 😁


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## Bernie_72 (Aug 9, 2020)

DrRobert said:


> Its common knowledge aside from the safety feature SS is just as good or better than any of the major brands.. The T glide fence system runs circles around the Xacta fence on my Jet. And they have managed to keep them priced competitively, in fact much cheaper than PM.
> 
> I don’t understand the naive notion that SS should push the self destruct button and let its patent go public.
> 
> I‘m sure Powematic could invent their own, no doubt it would turn their $5000 saw into a $7000 one. 😁


SawStop has no control in "letting" their patents go public. Patents eventually expire and there is generally no extending them. From what I know the PTO only grants extensions due to delays caused by the PTO itself. 

SawStop's original patents expired in 2020 and the bulk of their patents expired in August of 2021. They have a few patents left that extend into 2024 but from what I've heard those don't center around the core blade stopping technology.

I incorrectly assumed that other manufacturers would have products queued up just waiting for all those patents to expire last August but so far I'm not aware of any other company that has released SawStop like functionality.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

Locodcdude said:


> All in all, the sawstop is a good investment for a school or multi-person shop environment in my opinion. For a home shop, or small business, I don't think I would invest in one. Like I said earlier, If you are careful, use the right push sticks, and techniques when you're behind the saw, you shouldn't have an accident. It's just second nature using a table saw no a day's. Keeping your fingers clear of the blade, and using push sticks when necessary.


11 year old thread, but active again, so. Mistakes are part of human nature. Even experienced pros have cut off fingers on a TS. Just look at all the safety features and procedures in aviation because highly trained pilots still find ways to screw up.

I'm happy with my SS Contractor. I won't say every non-SS TS purchased is a mistake, but I do think everyone shopping for a TS should consider a Sawstop.



DrRobert said:


> Its common knowledge aside from the safety feature SS is just as good or better than any of the major brands.. The T glide fence system runs circles around the Xacta fence on my Jet. And they have managed to keep them priced competitively, in fact much cheaper than PM.


A month or so ago in an other thread you compared the price of a SS Contractor with 2 other saw models 4 to 5 hundred dollars more, but the SS had stamped steel wings and the others had cast iron. Getting the cast iron option for the SS wipes out the price difference.

But the point that you can get the safety without much/any cost increase over a comparable saw still stands. And ER time isn't cheap lol.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Bernie_72 said:


> SawStop has no control in "letting" their patents go public. Patents eventually expire and there is generally no extending them. From what I know the PTO only grants extensions due to delays caused by the PTO itself.
> 
> SawStop's original patents expired in 2020 and the bulk of their patents expired in August of 2021. They have a few patents left that extend into 2024 but from what I've heard those don't center around the core blade stopping technology.
> 
> I incorrectly assumed that other manufacturers would have products queued up just waiting for all those patents to expire last August but so far I'm not aware of any other company that has released SawStop like functionality.


Well see what happens after 2024. Seems logical they will all incorporate the technology. Little doubt it will drive the cost of the machines up even more.


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## danstein (Sep 13, 2021)

If I recall correctly, when SawStop was first invented the guy who invented it tried to get all the major saw manufacturers to incorporate the technology, and none of them was interested - retooling costs, not enough customer interest, yada yada. That’s why he started his own company to manufacture them.

Does it seem like SawStop has cannibalized their sales to the point that they would want to incorporate the technology now? Genuine question.


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## Pretender (Jun 22, 2019)

danstein said:


> If I recall correctly, when SawStop was first invented the guy who invented it tried to get all the major saw manufacturers to incorporate the technology, and none of them was interested - retooling costs, not enough customer interest, yada yada. That’s why he started his own company to manufacture them.
> 
> Does it seem like SawStop has cannibalized their sales to the point that they would want to incorporate the technology now? Genuine question.


SS tried to get the government to enact a law requiring a system like theirs on all table saws.
It would have been a huge windfall for them since they owned all the patents. 
Put a bad taste in my mouth and why I will never do business with them.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Let's leave the Sawstop politics out...Same old story...


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## Rider351 (Aug 11, 2018)

Rebelwork said:


> How does it cut circles around a Sawstop? It doesn't cut any better than a Sawstop, Unisaw, or Grizzly.......


Very simple....The fence on a PM1000 is much better and stronger than a SS. The cast iron top and solid steel base of the PM 1000 is very solid and out of the box level. The motor on the PM is quieter and packs more cutting power. PM is a longer running, more established company that knows how to make real cabinet saws. SS is capitalizing on the rookie woodworker mindset and marketing fear of tools. Respect your tool and you are fine.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Rider351 said:


> Very simple....The fence on a PM1000 is much better and stronger than a SS. The cast iron top and solid steel base of the PM 1000 is very solid and out of the box level. The motor on the PM is quieter and packs more cutting power. PM is a longer running, more established company that knows how to make real cabinet saws. SS is capitalizing on the rookie woodworker mindset and marketing fear of tools. Respect your tool and you are fine.


I'm afraid your wrong there. I used the saw in a furniture shop for 7 years replacing a Powermatic.


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## Rider351 (Aug 11, 2018)

Rebelwork said:


> I'm afraid your wrong there. I used the saw in a furniture shop for 7 years replacing a Powermatic.


Glad it is working great.I am a PM guy....."My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Rider351 said:


> Very simple....The fence on a PM1000 is much better and stronger than a SS. The cast iron top and solid steel base of the PM 1000 is very solid and out of the box level. The motor on the PM is quieter and packs more cutting power. PM is a longer running, more established company that knows how to make real cabinet saws. SS is capitalizing on the rookie woodworker mindset and marketing fear of tools. Respect your tool and you are fine.


If you ever used a SS you would know those comments are incorrect.

T Glide fence rocks.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Rider351 said:


> Glad it is working great.I am a PM guy....."My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"


I'm a Delta guy and not a Powermatic guy, but I still know the difference using all three..

When I came on woodworking forums after 2000, everyone was The Unisaw vs Powermatc. There was Jet rebuilding their reputation. Then you had Grizzly..

There's a new sheriff in town now. SAWSTOP...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Rebelwork said:


> I'm a Delta guy and not a Powermatic guy, but I still know the difference using all three..
> 
> When I came on woodworking forums after 2000, everyone was The Unisaw vs Powermatc. There was Jet rebuilding their reputation. Then you had Grizzly..
> 
> There's a new sheriff in town now. SAWSTOP...


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OK, Saw Stop is the only one with the built in safety brake, but what's the rest of the saw built like?
I hear two sides to that. Blanket statements just don't work in every case. You can only go by your own first hand experience.
Chevy, Ford and Dodge all have their good and bad points.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Worked with one everyday for 7 years.

Nothing wrong with the rest of the saw..

Lil tight on the rear dust collection...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Rebelwork said:


> Worked with one everyday for 7 years.
> 
> Nothing wrong with the rest of the saw..
> 
> Lil tight on the rear dust collection...


That's all well and fine. I'll bet a dollar and a cold drink you don't own one. If I recall, you have a Delta?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> That's all well and fine. I'll bet a dollar and a cold drink you don't own one. If I recall, you have a Delta?


Why do I have to own it to know it?

I used everyday for 7 years for work.

I bought the Unisaw before Sawstop was out..


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Long time powermatic owner gives his thoughts on the sawstop...


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