# Gouge Sharpening



## Ken schleman (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times,butbeing new to Turning I need some input here.
I've tried a sharpening system I bought from Hartville Tool. To be very honest if this is all there is I would be better off using a steel rod that I grind free hand.
I do not mind spending the money but I do want something that works.
I'm a machinist so I do know how to use tools if they are made correctly .
Guys I would appreciate the input,I just want to spend time making wood bowls and such. Not remaking tools to sharpen my cutters.
Thanks for the help.
Ken


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It might help if you told us specifically which sharpening system you bought.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I haven't looked at what Hartville sells but I have about 4 sharpening videos that should help. You can find them all by either typing in john60lucas sharpening in the youtube search block or simply subscribe to my videos. 

All the various sharpening jigs do more or less the same thing, it's still up to you to grind properly. My video on sharpening problems tries to answer this. 
The shape of gouges can also be a problem because often they come from the factory with bad grinds so duplicating it doesn't really help. Here is a web site with photos of grinds other turners use. Mine are in there also. Hopefully that will help.
http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml


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## Ken schleman (Aug 24, 2011)

*Tool sharpening*

I hate to bad mouth a product even if it's not working. 
But if it will help find a working system it was the Super Sharo.
The tool I got from Hartville is just made poorly or designed incorrectly to begin with.
The clamping device changes the location of the gouge each time it is clamped and the line up notches are cut off by 3/16 " I know this is a $100 tool but these are basic features that need to be done correctly.


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

I am somewhat new to turning also. I watched several vidoes on youtube.com and I'm always learning something but I wish they would have a video more on the physics of holding the tool. The all say grind them to a certan angle then grind to your liking. Very few say anything about using the heal of the tool to control how much and how fast and the size of the chips. Maybe the heal isn't used at all. If it is used, on what cutter/tools. Mine are sharpe, but they tend to grab the wood and hog in quick making big chips and stalling out the turning. Maybe its something I'm doing, I don't know. Maybe its the tool angle, up and down, lift and right Which to cut inside a bowl, cut towards center, cut outward. Maybe there are too many senerios and a rule of thumb won't always work. 

I've watched this guy and he seems to know his stuff. His web site is www.eddiecastelin.com. His web cam site is http://www.ustream.tv/channel/makin-shavin-s. He has serveral vidoes on his site that are video taped from his twice weekly show he puts on. He also has many videos on youtube.com. Do a search for captain Eddie Castelin.

I'm gonna watch some the the above vidoes mentioned.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

I dunno if your asking how to use your system or for info on a better system but IMO, theres not a better sharpening sytem on the market than the Oneway Wolverine system. It makes it simple for a dummy like me to sharpen lathe tools. I cant sharpen a pocket knife but I can put a perfect edge on my lathe tools in about 30 seconds and its the exact same edge every time.

Pair this system with a slow speed grinder and buy the Vari Grind attachment for bowl gouges.:thumbsup:

All new turners should also be subscribing to John Lucas Youtube channel too!


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Can you link to the "Super Sharp"? I went to Hartville but could find no jig by that name. I have used the Wolverene and own the Sorby and the Nova. I can see no real advantage of one over the other but the Sorby does allow me to slide sideways about two inches rather than pivoting on a fixed point.


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

tewitt1949 said:


> The all say grind them to a certan angle then grind to your liking. Very few say anything about using the heal of the tool to control how much and how fast and the size of the chips. Maybe the heal isn't used at all.


I think this may be better in a new thread with more info. Some you use the heal, some you don't. Some, like the skew, may have two heels, the heel of the bevel and the heel of the tool.
What tool and what you are trying to do (and a pic of the tool if possible) would allow for much more help IMHO.

One thing to start with is to understand the importance of stance. Stuart Batty has some videos and three concern stance. Some others may be very appropriate also.
http://vimeo.com/woodturning/videos/page:1/sort:alphabetical/format:thumbnail

Lyle Jamieson is very good at explaining what I think you are asking IF you are talking about the bowl gouge. Here is a link to his youtube selection but there are a lot to pick through.
http://www.youtube.com/user/JamiesonLyle/videos


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## michigancritter (Mar 7, 2012)

I have a Tormek t3 and have had good results. The additional jigs can get pricey but I like the repeatability I get on my tools.


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

Ok, I'll try to explain what I mentioned above. I'm not very good at explaining my thoughts.

We will start out by working on the inside of a bowl. No here again it may make a difference what tool you use. Maybe there is only one tool that you should use, I don't know. Anyways, using the tool that is about 1/2 wide on top, with a valley in the middle (what ever you call it). Do you cut at the center line, above or below? Do you cut with the center of the cutting edge on the tool or do you cut with the corner edge? Looking from the side of the lathe, do you hold the tool paralell with the lathe bed? Looking down from over the lathe, is the tool in line with the bed or is it an angle compared to the bed?

The tool that is rounded in the front and flat on top, do you use the heal on that tool? Just in the front or on the side edge also?

Seems like some guys angle the tool where they are slicing/peeling or cutting the wood off, while others are scraping it off. When do you slice and when do you scrape?

I appoligize for my terminology and explaination as I'm sure your saying to yourself, what the hell is he talking about?


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I haven't had time to do a bowl video or a bowl gouge video. However maybe this one will help you understand how rubbing the bevel of the tool controls the cut. The push cut done with the spindle gouge at the end of the video is probably what you want to use for what your doing.


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

I have been watching several vidoes from Lyle Jamison from the link above and the last one form John lucus and they explain everything exactually that I was talking about in my last post. I was doing may things wrong when it comes to holding the tool and deeping it at certain angles. 

I think the biggest thing I was doing wrong is not using what I call the chin of the tool to control how much and how fast the tool will cut. The chin will keep the tool from being sucked in deeper and deeper..... quick. There was no control before.

I can't wait to get to the shop and make the grinding jig, regrind my tools and start cutting. 

Thanks so much for all the great help and the willingness to share your trade secrets with us.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

tewitt1949 said:


> I think the biggest thing I was doing wrong is not using what I call the chin of the tool to control how much and how fast the tool will cut. The chin will keep the tool from being sucked in deeper and deeper..... quick. There was no control before.


I _think _you are talking about the *bevel* ... it's the (almost) flat surface that the grinder makes when you sharpen a gouge ... runs all the way out to the cutting edge from the *heel* (which is where the bevel meets the shaft of the tool that hasn't been sharpened.)

IMO, it's worth learning the terminology that other turners use, just so they understand what you're talking about when you ask a question.

When I started turning, I took a class at the local Woodcraft store. The teacher drummed into us "the A-B-Cs of turning -- *Anchor - Bevel - Cut*".

This means step 1 is to *anchor* yourself AND the tool -- get the right stance, put the tool shaft on the tool rest with the cutting edge high above the spinning workpiece in the correct orientation, and focus yourself.

Step 2 is *bevel* - slowly raise the tool handle so that the business end of the gouge lowers and the bevel RUBS against the workpiece. (It may be a bit bumpy if the piece isn't round yet -- in which case lower the handle a little so that you can just feel the knocking as it spins.)

And step 3 is *cut* - gradually raise the handle just a smidge, and the cutting edge will engage the workpiece. The bevel will now move onto the ledge you just created, and so you proceed along the length of the workpiece ... always "riding the bevel" to maintain control ...

HTH


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

ABC the most important thing to learn in woodturning. Anchor, Bevel, Cut. Unless of course your using the EZwoodtools then it's anchor, scrape.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

New here so will give a quick background.Had a custom cabinet and furniture shop for 12 years with a custom made Vega 15 X 144 VS lathe so have done some turning.To me the main part of wood turning is the control you have over the tools.So,it bothers me that turners need all these jigs and fixtures to sharpen the tools.I used Sorbly tools and liked a slight hollow grind on them so simply used a bench grinder with 8" white or pink Aluminum Oxide wheels.If you have enough control of your tools on the lathe to make a good turning you should have a enough control to grind an edge.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Steve Neul said:


> It might help if you told us specifically which sharpening system you bought.


 

True , and what gouge we are talking about .

How about a photo or two Ken


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I do have that control but new turners don't and it takes a long time for them to learn. I reach classes and I teach my students to use a jig. I followed another instructor once who would not let the students us the jigs. I had to spend a lot of time reshaping all those tools because they were so bad. 
I do teach people to sharpen by hand because I think they should learn but I still believe a jig speeds up the learning process. 
Another factor to consider is most turners really don't get to turn that much, and sharpen even less. The jigs really help them get more enjoyment out of their turning.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

I agree John.There is a learning curve.I taught a guy once who just could not get the hang of it so I had him turn an 8" cylinder on the lathe.Set up the toll rest like on a grinder and practice on that as if he was sharpening the tools.Seamed to work for him and he didn't grind the hell out of the tools.The less aggravation the more enjoyment for sure.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

That reminds me . 

Grinder spindle at the same height as lathe spindle . 

And don't use water to quench the blade ;
as in , don't press so hard or so long that the steel burns and needs cooling


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Good point. If the grinder is the same height as your lathe spindle you use the same body motions to grind the tool as you do to turn with it. It makes you a better sharpener. 
If your overheating the tool your grinding too hard. relax and let the stone do the work. Of course a properly trued up stone runs without bouncing which also makes it easier to sharpen. 
Get one of the new CBN wheels. They run true, never need truing up and cut cooler. Quite expensive but worth every penny.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

Couple points that have not been mentioned is I like a Baldor grinder as they are very smooth and try and get one that turns at 1750 rpms as opposed to 3450.Expensive ,but so are your tools.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I like a Baldor also but at 1/3 the cost the Woodcraft grinders are an excellent choice and come with 2 white wheels which will get you buy for a good while. I prefer the slower speeds myself although I looked it up one day and the optimum surface speed for High Speed Steel is roughly what a 6" grinding wheel will give you at 3450 rpm. I just like the slower speed because I think you have more control and sure is less scary.


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