# A truck question



## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

Hello is there any way that you can raise the capacity of towing. Maybe add more leaf springs? I have no idea! Might be a totally retarded question but... Why not! And it's a 08 dodge ram 1500 hemi big horn thanks


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

Is that Dodge from before they switched to coil springs in the rear of Dodge 1/2 ton PU's? I know airbags can really help out, but keep in mind the numbers on the sticker at the door are there for a reason. Add a leafs are out there. If there was a tow package or another model available with heavier springs, then you can swap them also. Air bags are nice since you keep the stock ride when not hauling and are not very hard to install.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

It all depends upon just what limitations on towing are the problem. If it is tongue weight then beefing up the suspension could help.

If it is total weight of the two then probably not much can be done, if you are using a factory hitch with max tow weight capacity.

Again a few more details regarding your problem would help with getting good answers.

George


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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

I have a class 5 after market hitch on it(I no I could never tow that much but why not) ya the tongue weight might be an issue.. What are these airbags you speak of.. I assume it's not a traditional accident airbag right? I can tow 3- 20"x10' long white oak logs but I don't wanna push it.. Add leafs? Ya trading it in isn't an option it's my baby ya know? Ha.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Ibangwood said:


> I have a class 5 after market hitch on it(I no I could never tow that much but why not) ya the tongue weight might be an issue.. What are these airbags you speak of.. I assume it's not a traditional accident airbag right? I can tow 3- 20"x10' long white oak logs but I don't wanna push it.. Add leafs? Ya trading it in isn't an option it's my baby ya know? Ha.


There are different types of "air" suspension upgrades. The "air bag" is simply an air bladder that fits inside a coil spring, that when inflated offers resistance. There are air shock absorbers that can be added as a "helper" to an existing suspension. They work similarly to the air bag, in that the amount of air they get pumped up to will afford added support.












 







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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

After you figure out all the pure-strength type questions, then be sure to learn how all this effects your ability to drive straight and to stop. Something about how much weight is in the vehicle versus how much momentum is trying to push it forward from the trailer. I tend to be something of an extra-mile guy with safety, and doubly so when its not just my life. If that trailer has brakes, do they recommend you do these braking calculations with a worst case assumption that trailer brakes have crapped out?

The folks in the oncoming car will appreciate your thinking about this factor as well a the hitch engineering.


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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

Well the trailer has brakes dual axle.. 4 brakes and it has a sensitivity box inside my truck to determine how much pressure the brakes put on.. It's 1-6 sensitivity settings and 6 being super strong.. I use it on 2...maybe 2.5 with the 3 logs of white oak 20" by 10'


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

See the section "weighing a trailer"
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt12.htm


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*There's a bunch of limiting factors*

There's tongue weight, the amount of load placed directly on the rear hitch.
There's a Load Distributing Hitch that will distribute the weight to the front axle as well as the rear. I'd be using one of those for heavy loads and to help stability. The larger travel trailers use them.
There's rear axle manufacture's capacity, RGAWR.
There's the total vehicle GVWR load, combined weight of vehicle, passenger, hitch loads fuel, beer, etc...

This is not a simple one answer question. Your best bet is to go to a trailer hitch installation shop where they do this all the time and have access to the specs for your vehicle and can recommend any overload springs/bags as well as a Load Distributing Hitch. Even the 2" couplers and hitch ball have a max load rating which is stamped on the receiver insert and the ball.
This link has a interesting discussion, kinda wordy, but brings in the issues involved. Sorry GMC, not Dodge.
 bill
http://www.gmcfaq.org/gmc-truck/che...ty-vs-rear-axle-weight-rating-huh-114246.html


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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

Awesome.. Ya I'm not looking to tow a crap ton but a few more logs on a loaf would be nice I think it says I can tow about 8300lbs but who knows


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Ibangwood said:


> Awesome.. Ya I'm not looking to tow a crap ton but a few more logs on a loaf would be nice I think it says I can tow about 8300lbs but who knows


It's easy to rig up a truck to carry more load. What happens is increasing the capacity the truck was designed for can seriously affect the handling characteristics. Braking becomes a genuine issue. If you can hook up brakes on the trailer, either electric or surge, that could be a lifesaver.












 







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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I don't have any experience with modding a truck in that way and I wouldn't suggest it. I think by the time you sink the coin into it doing what needed to be done properly you could have bought an old beater one ton for less money. I hardly ever drive my 1 ton anymore unless I'm using it for logging or moving equipment and it's just downright handy to have a truck for hauling only. I drive the 1/2 ton for run-around stuff. 

Many people are hurting economically and it shouldn't be a problem to pick up a running 1 ton for a $1000 and less - I know you can around here. This probably isn't much help to you but it's the first thing I would consider before I started turning wrenches and buying parts and then once you're finally done you end up discovering C'man was right - that the thing handles like a tug boat in a maelstrom. 











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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

And BTW braking is THE most serious consideration you should have. Even the brakes on a 1 ton are wholly inadequate to stop itself & a heavily loaded trailer should your trailer brakes quit on you. Ask my wife and two sons about that! I was pulling a 3-axle trailer loaded (overloaded actually) to the gills when the brakes went out right as I started to apply them to stop at a red light, well in a advance of the light at one of the busiest intersections in Tyler Texas one day in 2005. 

The short story is we didn't kill anyone as we skidded through the light barely missing t-boning a lady crossing the intersection . . . . by inches. Once through the intersection I let off the brakes and you really couldn't tell much difference excpet for the loud thumping and vibration caused by the flat spots on the front tires, and the smell of burning tires in the cab. 






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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

The trailer I have if you put in on the highest sensitivity it'll stop your truck DEAD(ha if they don't fail). I also drive 20 below the speed limit when I have a big load too. Ya I've been looking for a 1 ton junker but on craiglist there above 3000$ still now let's say I get a 89 f-250 you think that would be rated for at least 10000lbs?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm with everyone else about mod to the truck. TT's idea of a older 1 ton truck is an option but then you have another insurance to pay.

I know people that had to much tung weight on there trailers and had the axles moved a little further forward to reduce the tung weight. I don't know how nor would I say to do it yourself but you can check to see if anyone does it in your area. This was done on boat trailers but I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

The air bag suspension could also help but to much weight can cause hazardous steering and stopping problems. If I was reading it right, I think you already have the trailer brakes which is good, but I would still be cautious about changing things.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

GCWR on the 89 F250 diesel is 17000 lbs I believe, at least that is what I got a dealer to tell me about mine. The problem with an old beater is the sticker says it is legal but is the truck still up to it unless you completely go through it?


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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

I'm little confuzzled in that last sentence


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I guess I've had unusually good luck with old beaters over the years. AFA insurance goes, if you drive it less than 3000 miles a year as a secondary vehicle with only liability (no comprehensive) the insurance on them is very low. I guess if you have a bad driving record it would be high. 

If you can find someone who knows for sure how to beef the suspension up on yours then by all means do it. My point was not to do it unless you've gotten some experienced guidance. It could be an expensive lesson in more ways than one. 




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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

TT that's assuming insurance pricing and laws apply the same in all states. However they are quite different, not sure exactly how or where he is located but he would be lucky if his state insurance worked the same as yours in Texas. I know Louisiana has some high rates and strange laws.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

He lives in Montana where the auto insurance rates are by far cheaper than any other state. In fact, some drivers quality for free insurance in that state.


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I just made all that up. :jester:










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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

TexasTimbers said:


> He lives in Montana where the auto insurance rates are by far cheaper than any other state. In fact, some drivers quality for free insurance in that state.
> 
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> ...


 You almost had me on that one.:laughing::laughing:


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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

Nj sucks not bad for trees tho


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Ibangwood said:


> The trailer I have if you put in on the highest sensitivity it'll stop your truck DEAD(ha if they don't fail). I also drive 20 below the speed limit when I have a big load too. Ya I've been looking for a 1 ton junker but on craiglist there above 3000$ still now let's say I get a 89 f-250 you think that would be rated for at least 10000lbs?


Probably not. 

George


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

Ibangwood said:


> I'm little confuzzled in that last sentence


I assume you meant my last sentence. I meant the sticker inside my drivers door lists legal weights and such, but, and I will use my F250 as an example, all of the brakes were worn out, every rubber bushing in the suspension is dry rotted from age, a rear shock mount is bent up(just noticed), the u joints are have a bit of slop, the radiator is clogged with 22 years of crud, and the clutch has a lot of miles on it. I am just saying mine would be legal but probably not up to towing its max unless I fixed everything(which I almost done with), and your Dodge would not be legal but may be more capable than a beater. If you do get the F250, I have some great upgrade suggestions for hauling (F350 springs, Hydroboost off an F450 Super Duty, etc.)


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Jefferythree,

DON'T BELIEVE everything a salesman tells you UNLESS HE/SHE can verify it in writing. The GCVW of a 250 SHOULD NOT BE 17,000 or near, I'm not even sure their ton truck will be close to that. It's been a few years since purchasing and checking these actual plated #'s but Fords F-450 might and their 550 GCVW was around 25,000. I chose the F-650 due to my tool trailer is maxed in wieght AND IF (and will) electric brakes fail/wear down the truck can truly handle the extra wieght. 

YES I misinformedly pulled same trailer with F250 HD desiel, YES it would pull it, YES it would stop PROVIDED no electric brake issues BUT was not LEGAL OR CORRECT and after much looking back as dangerous as a cocked hair-triggered gun on a bumpy road in hand:thumbdown:. The Lord opened my eyes and I changed from "all about me" to "regards to others" including safety.

Helper springs/shocks/bags that are designed for that specific truck are great....BUT... tongue weight can be adjusted by placement of load BUT... you still need the tongue wieght for correct balance and safety and don't overload your GCVW #'s. Helpers are good for hauling consistantly at max vehicle ratings BUT doesn't change all the other factory spec'd parts for weight rating.

This is not easy decisions, "been there, done that", but the final is safety of others. You may choose to risk your life ( that's YOUR CHOICE) but on the roads and highways your risking others.

Have a Blessed day and remember other lives,

Tim


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

I am not sure why you singled me out and had to yell, but you made me get in the glove box and see if I had the manual. 14k GCWR on my truck, 1k more if it was auto. The next higher axle ratio was 17k. Some of the 460's with auto get up to 22-23k GCWR, but the auto with 4.10s was 18500. Ibangwood did not say diesel or gas; so the diesel would get him a 8-9k max trailer weight and the 460 with auto and 4.10's giving a 12k max trailer weight.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

jeffreythree said:


> I am not sure why you singled me out and had to yell, . . . .


I know Tim can speak for himself & sure he will but I'll chime in early and give my take on it. On every forum you'll have members that don't realize people can read just as well as they can, and that those people can also determine which parts of the paragraph/sentence are making the more important points of their statements. 

I can't explain why they believe they're able to read the other 99% of the posts by other member who do not chronically use various emphasis such as CAPS or *bold* or underlined or _italicized_ or colored text or *ALL OF THEM* ad infinitum, but for whatever reason they believe us other 99%ers are not as able to discern as well as they. 

But I don't think he singled you out and was yelling at you only - I think he was yelling at all of us poor inept 99 percenters who need help to determine what parts are the *MOST* important. 


But I won't say anything about it and I'll just let Tim speak for himself. :shifty:






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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

Appreciate alll the info you've given me jeffreythree and WHEN I DO get one haba I will be looking foreward to the ugrades you have on mind. Maybe Tennessee tim works for OSHA lol. I love modifying stuff.. People worry to much about specs. It's simple.. If it works it works if not fix it. If you can make something better then WHY NOT. but like ALWAYS, you test something before you use it


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Let me give my qualifications here. My first career was as an ASE certified mechanic specializing in brakes, suspension, and air conditioning systems. Admittedly it has been a LONG time since I spun a wrench professionally, but the basics are all still the same. 

Towing ratings are based on a LOT of factors, engine, transmission, differential, brakes, even frame. While payload capacity can be improved through helper springs, towing capacity is pretty much limited. Yes booster springs / air bags will help a little bit, but not by enough to really matter. If you need more than your 1/2 ton can handle, look for a 3/4 or 1 ton, or look to another MFG with a half ton that offers the tow rating you want. They are out there... I am not certain, but I think the upper limit for tow ratings on current half ton trucks is around 11K lbs (Ford F150), since I am not a Chevy guy I can't state what they run nowadays, and I think the Dodges still are in the range of what yours is... There are of course the imports, but hey, let's try to stay American shall we?

Now to the point of the load you are wanting to haul. Let's start off with, how much weight are you actually trying to haul? How heavy is the trailer? How heavy is the average log you are trying to haul? Do the math and see what your truck can pull safely without modding it. You might be surprised. I borrowed a friends 20ft dual axle landscape trailer (850 lbs dry), loaded it up front to back, side to side, 3' deep (its's as high as the sides went) with cut up pecan limbs and scraps. (cut off branches, leaves and the like)Total weight ~6500lbs including trailer (access to DOT scales varies by state...). You may be shocked to see you are under what you think you are, then again, you may be over as well!

You may want to check out the tables over HERE to see what various wood species weighs at what moisture content...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Along with all the above info*

Axles themselves are load rated as I said way above. There's even 2 types of 14 bolt Gm's a limited use in 2500's and the standard 1/2 ton.the 3/4 ton is full floating, and rated at 7000 and the 1/2 ton is semi-floating: 
http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/14bolt.html

Here's some air bag info:
http://store.gaugemagazine.com/02-08-dodge-ram-1500-1-2-ton-2-and-4wd-rear-helper-bag-kit.aspx

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6530


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

wow i didn't know caps was yelling, i thought it was emphasizing/stressing a point. that wasn't too loud was it.:laughing:

JEFFERY,(LOL, got your attention now) I wasn't yelling at you or any others and I APOLOGIZE:thumbsup: ( I hope everyone heard that even though it didn't peck any louder) AND I stand corrected according to your info in the glovebox, but it doesn't match to my recollection what the older Ford or Chevys of same size/3/4 ton spec'd., but I've been wrong once today according to your specs.

I just gave an opinion as others have:icon_smile::icon_smile: and I thought the 17,000 was way out of line.:yes::yes:

TT, I'm a big boy and can take my DUE/UNDUE lashes. Jesus was lashed for speaking the TRUTH, all I ask is read ALL of my post which also stated things can be tweeked/updated but stay to the side of SAFETY ( YEP, I YELLED THAT!!!!) 

Have a Blessed day, 
Tim


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

With all the suggestions for beafin' up a standard truck, anything done to increase load capacity will affect other parts. So, if you don't plan on upgrading all the parts to comply, I have a distinct feeling that there's gonna be failure somewhere. Could be something as small as a wheel bearing, or a ball joint. 

And we can't forget the damage to that vehicle in front that stops fast, and you smash the back of it into smithereens, while your foot is bending the brake pedal.:yes: DAMHIKT.












 







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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

Towing a trailer loaded more than the trucks rating may cause trailer sway. That is a very unpleasant experience. (DAMHIKT)


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Longknife said:


> Towing a trailer loaded more than the trucks rating may cause trailer sway. That is a very unpleasant experience. (DAMHIKT)



That could be attributed to poor load distribution.












 







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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

You can only "beef up" a truck or trailer so much, because after that you exceed the tires' ability to handle the load. Tires are always the limiting factor when it comes to actual weight. So you have to add more tires which means more axles which means more weight which means permits by now which means . . . . . . 


















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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Tennessee Tim said:


> TT, I'm a big boy and can take my DUE/UNDUE lashes.


Nobody be given ya lashes my brutha. Nobody be pickin on ya. Nobody be thinkin bad of ya. We just be doin' what we do amongst brutha's . . . brutha.  






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## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

should be around 8k. get a 2500 or 3500 and be done with it.


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