# Faceframe questions



## kcarter13 (Jan 16, 2014)

Hey all. 

Been reading on here for a while but have never posted. Have done a bunch of woodworking in the past. But thought I would pick your brains on the best way to accomplish this cabinet. 










I am planning to also do beaded faceframe inset doors on a personal kitchen build.

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Two Questions*

- I would assume the bottom rail - "furniture leg" is all done in one piece in the bottom rail. Meaning its a tall rail with the decorative peiece cut out of it?

- How are they achieving the end panel? It doesnt seem they are using poplar or something to frame out the end panel. It looks so thin. Can someone provide a little input as to how this is accomplished? 

Thanks so much in advance. The knowledge on here is invaluable to us learning woodworkers.


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## kcarter13 (Jan 16, 2014)

So are they just extending the front faceframe the extra 3/4" or so to the left and then butting the left panel into it?


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## ecr (Jan 4, 2011)

I like to make my end panels part of the cabinet. On inset I will make a face frame for the end and install a door in it. I miter fold the to face frames together or put a corner leg on. Here is a pic of a inset island I did showing what I mean.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The end panels are made in the same manor as the doors. It just has a wider bottom rail. The scalloped piece on the front faceframe is likely to be just added on to the bottom of the rail. The seam would show if it wasn't painted.


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## kcarter13 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks all for your responses. I appreciate the feedback. After looking into it more. I think i would be best to do an additional beaded face frame on the end panel and make an additional door so it matches the. I am super excited to start working on our new kitchen for our home build.

Thanks again. I am sure I will have a ton more questions as time progresses.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Make the end panel just like it were a door, and let the front face frame over lap the front edge if the panel.


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## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Make the end panel just like it were a door, and let the front face frame over lap the front edge if the panel.


I'm going through the same process for a wall hung cabinet. For a wall hung cabinet would you make the cabinet face frame and end panel frame with the same rail and stile dimensions? Also, I would like to cut the corner stiles (front and side ) to 45 degrees to form a mitered corner joint. Good idea?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

JIMMIEM said:


> I'm going through the same process for a wall hung cabinet. For a wall hung cabinet would you make the cabinet face frame and end panel frame with the same rail and stile dimensions? Also, I would like to cut the corner stiles (front and side ) to 45 degrees to form a mitered corner joint. Good idea?


On an end panel I always made the bottom rail a little taller than the top rail like in the OP's picture, the stiles can be a little wider or the same, which ever you like. I wouldn't go with 45ing the corner for two reasons, it will be sharp and will splinter or dent easly if bumped, also there is a good chance the joint will open and look bad. 

If you overlap the side panel with the front face frame, be sure to make the front stile of the panel 3/4" narrower than the back stile to keep them both uniform in width once the front face frame overlaps.


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## kcarter13 (Jan 16, 2014)

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the responses. I do have a couple more questions as I plan my kitchen build

To avoid issues during install how are people doing these cabinets and shimming the cabinet? It seems the front faceframe. Especially on the left stile seems to run all the way to the floor. as well as the panel on the left. the bottom rail and whole panel is essentially sitting on the floor.

Take a look at this photo. am i planning this right? Would love your opinion on this.


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## Robb Parker (Jul 12, 2012)

They are scribed to the floor. Not shimmed. Level cabinets then scribe to the floor.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

robbparker said:


> They are scribed to the floor. Not shimmed. Level cabinets then scribe to the floor.


Is that the way you install cabinets? If so you are indeed a rare installer, I have never seen anyone do that. All I have seen are shimmed and shoe mold ran around the kick.


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## kcarter13 (Jan 16, 2014)

Ya not sure if I have seen anyone scribe the bottom either. I just found another photo of the same kitchen later. Looks like there did use quarter round around the outside. What about the toe kick though. I would assume that wouldn't be even with the floor either. But I would think it would need to be added prior to installation because of the furniture style leg correct?










Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

kcarter13 said:


> Ya not sure if I have seen anyone scribe the bottom either. I just found another photo of the same kitchen later. Looks like there did use quarter round around the outside. What about the toe kick though. I would assume that wouldn't be even with the floor either. But I would think it would need to be added prior to installation because of the furniture style leg correct?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any box with furniture legs gets scribed all sides to the floor. The shoe in that application looks terrible. It's a toss up as to whether or not there is an applied toekick. Most of the FB boxes I install don't have one. Most of the time it's a 3/4" thick integral kick that is set back a couple inches that gets scribed to the floor as well.

This is my favorite scribe for prefin casework. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=11VWRG9HDYHXF4JCKJNZI run strips of painters tape and use the blade on the scribe to score the tape and pull off the tape on the waste side. I cut close to the line with a saw and then sand it righteous with a little belt sander.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

We'd get called(codes)on the stair balustrad (spacing)and the corbels...not meeting clearance.

But agree on the shoe,in the above example.Either scribe or have a nicer,more complimentary profile....1/4 round is pretty "Goober".But to each their own?


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## Robb Parker (Jul 12, 2012)

Would never put shoe on furniture kicks. Granted, normal recessed kick cabinets shimmed and shoed. But not intragal furniture kicks. Separates amateurs from pros. Nice looking cabinets till they put shoe on it. The raw returns on the faces are the worst.


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## Robb Parker (Jul 12, 2012)

Neat gizmo for scribing above but doesn't seem to have adjustment. I have just used a compass for 40 years.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

robbparker said:


> Neat gizmo for scribing above but doesn't seem to have adjustment. I have just used a compass for 40 years.


Adjustable on 1/16" increments up to 1/2" depending on which slot you put the blade in and which face you reference it off of. If I need to add a 32nd I set the tool on a 32nd plastic shim. I prefer it to dividers for case work. It slices the tape leaving a real high contrast line to cut to and the blade also scores the finish/veneer eliminating any chance for tear out. For most other scribing I switch to dividers.


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## Robb Parker (Jul 12, 2012)

Justin, thanks. Have to give a second look. Your explanation better than web site. Always looking for a better way.


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## kcarter13 (Jan 16, 2014)

Hey all I agree with you all. I think the shoe molding looks a little cheap. Thanks for your advise on the scribing. I think this is going to be a LONG project thats for sure. I have about 10 months to build my whole kitchen in my shop before we start on the house. I could use all the help and guidance I can get  

Just getting the outfeed table and router insert all setup. Then off the buy the kreg beaded faceframejig. Unless someone on here has a used one for sale haha.


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## 1acre (Apr 7, 2016)

Personally, I find kreg to be hoax'y. not that I have bought a lot of their stuff, in fact, I own none of their stuff. But, the point is, if I was going to sink almost $400 into a router table fence, I would get one that will last a lifetime for maybe a few more $$$ (maybe less).

Pat Warner's fence. http://patwarner.com/routerfence.html

OR...

An incra. http://www.incra.com/precision_fences-router_table_fences.html

or....

build your own. 

Buy router bits from some other reputable source. I get mine from mlcs. http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/


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## kcarter13 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for the reply... Now you have me looking up other fence systems haha. I found a deal on the kreg beaded face frame kit on craigslist so think I am going to pick that up. I have a whole house of cabinets to make. I am sure I will get my use out of it.

Been doing a bunch of researching on the scribing method to install furniture leg cabinets. Just want to make sure I think of everything before I start making sawdust.

More questions to come soon.


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