# Gel stain with Epoxy



## themanknownassting (Nov 16, 2016)

Hi all,

Love the site. I am new to woodworking. Never realized how amazing woodworking is. After 2 long months I am just about done with my wood dry bar. Just finished staining with Natural finishes Gel stain, and now I am wanting to put an EPOXY over the bar top. However I read that Epoxy doesn't bond well to the oil based stains. :crying2:

So I come to you experts to help out a newbie. Is there anyway around this? Or am I screwed for using a gel stain?


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## nxtgeneration (Feb 22, 2016)

themanknownassting said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Love the site. I am new to woodworking. Never realized how amazing woodworking is. After 2 long months I am just about done with my wood dry bar. Just finished staining with Natural finishes Gel stain, and now I am wanting to put an EPOXY over the bar top. However I read that Epoxy doesn't bond well to the oil based stains. :crying2:
> 
> So I come to you novices to help out a newbie. Is there anyway around this? Or am I screwed for using a gel stain?


I always use a coat of zinnser sealcoat (wax-free shellac) between stain and epoxy and have not had any issues.


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## themanknownassting (Nov 16, 2016)

nxtgeneration said:


> I always use a coat of zinnser sealcoat (wax-free shellac) between stain and epoxy and have not had any issues.


That should work with Gel Stain as well?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*novices helping a newbie?*



themanknownassting said:


> Hi all,
> 
> ..............................................
> 
> So I come to you novices to help out a newbie. Is there anyway around this? Or am I screwed for using a gel stain?


You may want to rephrase that comment. A novice is not that much more advanced than a newbie, if at all ... just sayin'


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## themanknownassting (Nov 16, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> You may want to rephrase that comment. A novice is not that much more advanced than a newbie, if at all ... just sayin'


Haha. I meant expert. I was going to use Novice about me, but newbie sounded better. haha


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You could put epoxy over a wiping stain but not a gel stain. With a wiping stain you would still need to allow the stain to dry a week before topcoating with epoxy to allow the linseed oil to dry completely. With a gel stain too much of it dries on the surface. If you don't wait until the gel stain completely hardens you might be able to remove what is on the surface with lacquer thinner. After doing this if the color is too light you can supplement the color with a alcohol based dye stain.


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## themanknownassting (Nov 16, 2016)

Steve Neul said:


> You could put epoxy over a wiping stain but not a gel stain. With a wiping stain you would still need to allow the stain to dry a week before topcoating with epoxy to allow the linseed oil to dry completely. With a gel stain too much of it dries on the surface. If you don't wait until the gel stain completely hardens you might be able to remove what is on the surface with lacquer thinner. After doing this if the color is too light you can supplement the color with a alcohol based dye stain.


Crap so doing the shellac before the Epoxy won't work? That stinks I already have put 3 coats of gel stain on it and it's been dried for over 2 weeks. :frown2:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

themanknownassting said:


> Crap so doing the shellac before the Epoxy won't work? That stinks I already have put 3 coats of gel stain on it and it's been dried for over 2 weeks. :frown2:


By putting shellac over the wood with three coats of gel stain on it then there is nothing for the epoxy to bond to. It will just be floating on a much softer finish which I would expect to cause the epoxy to eventually crack because of it. Epoxy is such an expensive product to take a chance on and a nightmare to remove if it does go south on you. 

Another note: Often when using an epoxy finish it gets bubbles in the finish which the cure is heating with a heat gun or torch. Shellac melts easily when heated. I don't know how that would affect if the shellac started mixing with the epoxy.


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## themanknownassting (Nov 16, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's help. Is there something as good as Epoxy for a bar top that I could use? Or should I just sand the bar top all the way down to bare wood and start over with a dye stain?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

themanknownassting said:


> Thanks for everyone's help. Is there something as good as Epoxy for a bar top that I could use? Or should I just sand the bar top all the way down to bare wood and start over with a dye stain?


I don't see anything wrong with polyurethane. If you allow each coat to thoroughly dry you could put it on pretty thick. Depending on the sheen you desire you should build the thickness with gloss and use a duller sheen for the last coat. The gloss is clearer than other sheens.


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## themanknownassting (Nov 16, 2016)

Steve Neul said:


> I don't see anything wrong with polyurethane. If you allow each coat to thoroughly dry you could put it on pretty thick. Depending on the sheen you desire you should build the thickness with gloss and use a duller sheen for the last coat. The gloss is clearer than other sheens.


Thanks so much for your help. One last question. Would Behlen Rockhark Table Top Varnish work?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

themanknownassting said:


> Thanks so much for your help. One last question. Would Behlen Rockhark Table Top Varnish work?


Sure, that would be a good option. It's just with any finish if you go thick with it like the epoxy look it's necessary to be real patient and allow each coat to dry well.


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