# Proper grit to sand maple?



## RMDMan (Aug 29, 2013)

I got my sticks of maple for another set of Cabinet doors. They came wrapped with a note that advised to* not *sand with grit finer than 120.
I was using 220 on the poplar I used on other doors. Does it sound correct to use 100 or 120 on the raw wood? I wouldn't think I could get the surface as smooth as I like with anything heavier than 220. 
If I use 100 on the rails and stiles, do I use 100 on the maple ply I got for the panels too?
This is my first project using maple.

Thoughts?


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Not a pro but I use 180 I think 220 would be fine.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Painting or staining? The higher the grit sanded, the worse results i've had staining things. If painting.....it doesn't really matter.


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## kreuzie (Jan 10, 2008)

I'd follow your supplier's advice. Finer grit papers tend to burnish fine-grained woods like maple, in effect sealing the wood's pores from stain penetration.


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## RMDMan (Aug 29, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Painting or staining? The higher the grit sanded, the worse results i've had staining things. If painting.....it doesn't really matter.


 the doors will be stained.
Thanks


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## RMDMan (Aug 29, 2013)

kreuzie said:


> I'd follow your supplier's advice. Finer grit papers tend to burnish fine-grained woods like maple, in effect sealing the wood's pores from stain penetration.


Ok thanks, that is what I needed to know.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

120 paint, 150 stain.


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

You mentioned maple "ply"... Maybe that is what the mfg doesn't want you to sand beyond the 120 fearing you may sand throught the top ply layer.

Generally speaking about solid hardwoods... I never sand beyond 150 with the power sanders and finish by hand with 180 grit, after wetting the wood. I learned from a master to take a pencil and lightly scribble all over wood - sand it clean with 100 grit paper. I repeat the process with 120 and 150 grit paper. The pencil scribbles assure me that I have completely sanded the surface and also points to any surface valleys. 

Following the 150 sanding, I wet the wood surface with a well damped (not soaking) rag, just about enough moister to use up about 20 minutes to dry. This wetting will reveal a dents, glue spots and other imperfections. It will also lift all loose wood fibers from the surface and leave your smooth wood with a fuzzy feel. These fibers are best removed with a 180 grit paper powered by the human hand. Dents will pop out of the wood (hand sand). Gouges (wood marks caused by removal of fibers) will not be fixed.

220 + grit sanding will be counter-productive. The higher grits will close the wood fibers leading to uneven staining etc (as others have stated).


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## durdyolman (Mar 22, 2013)

*I've learned summat*

Who knew you could sand hardwood too fine for stain? I have sanded some hardwoods to 320, then rubbed with #0000 steel wool. Was this a bad thing to do?:blink:


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## captainawesome (Jun 21, 2012)

I never knew this either, but I guess it makes sense when you think about it. 

I normally wipe everything with a damp rag before final sanding as stated before. Would a pre stain conditioner raise the wood fibers the same way the damp rag would? 

What if you are finishing a piece with just poly or another type of clear coat. Would you still only sand to 120 - 180?


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Durdy, don't use steel wool on bare wood. It has oils and shards of the steel will embed in the surface, perhaps causing stains later. Save the steel wool for the process of flattening a final film finish.


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## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

There's a lot of variables. WB stain, oil based stain or dye stain. Home store stain or professional stain.WB finish or oil based finished. Type of maple( hard or soft). Each has it's own set of rules/steps. In general 180, then sand your seal /finish coats with the finer grits. If unstained go 220 then finer on seal/finish coats. If your a snob like me and painting 180-220. I can see the 120 marks.


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## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

But do a full set sample/test board.


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## Anguspapa (May 4, 2013)

Thanks for all the in put on sanding. I never thought about the things that were mentioned, but I have never done fine wood working, like cabinets. The cutting boards I'm making I take all the way up to 220, then gutting wet, then 220 again. Last is oiling, is that to high since it is oil?

Eric


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## captainawesome (Jun 21, 2012)

Anguspapa said:


> Thanks for all the in put on sanding. I never thought about the things that were mentioned, but I have never done fine wood working, like cabinets. The cutting boards I'm making I take all the way up to 220, then gutting wet, then 220 again. Last is oiling, is that to high since it is oil?
> 
> Eric


That is how I do all my cutting boards. I've only done end grain, but the first few I made would be extremely smooth until the first coat of oil. The oil would raise the grain a good bit, but at that point you can't go back and sand. 

I've wondered if doing it this way has hindered the oil from getting all the way through the board, but all of mine have been holding up just fine.


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## Anguspapa (May 4, 2013)

captainawesome said:


> That is how I do all my cutting boards. I've only done end grain, but the first few I made would be extremely smooth until the first coat of oil. The oil would raise the grain a good bit, but at that point you can't go back and sand. I've wondered if doing it this way has hindered the oil from getting all the way through the board, but all of mine have been holding up just fine.


The majority of the boards I do are end grain also, thanks to the PK from Kendo, but I have also done and am doing some face grain board (more of a serving tray) for Christmas gifts. Is it ok to take it up to 220?









Eric


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## RMDMan (Aug 29, 2013)

Anguspapa said:


> The majority of the boards I do are end grain also, thanks to the PK from Kendo, but I have also done and am doing some face grain board (more of a serving tray) for Christmas gifts. Is it ok to take it up to 220?
> 
> View attachment 84360
> 
> ...


 
Than't one cool cutting board! I like.


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## RMDMan (Aug 29, 2013)

BernieL said:


> You mentioned maple "ply"... Maybe that is what the mfg doesn't want you to sand beyond the 120 fearing you may sand throught the top ply layer.
> 
> Generally speaking about solid hardwoods... I never sand beyond 150 with the power sanders and finish by hand with 180 grit, after wetting the wood. I learned from a master to take a pencil and lightly scribble all over wood - sand it clean with 100 grit paper. I repeat the process with 120 and 150 grit paper. The pencil scribbles assure me that I have completely sanded the surface and also points to any surface valleys.
> 
> ...


 The note was just with the stick wood, not the ply. Thanks for all the info, I'm gonna try it on some test pieces and see if I like the results.
Thanks again.


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## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

220 is fine for cutting boards. I'll even go 400.


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## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

On maple to be stained, I'll stop at 150 and get a smooth final feel by sanding with a higher grit followed by steel wool or mesh rubbing, then wax. 
If the plan is to not stain, I will go to 180-220. It's true that the higher grits produce splotchy staining due to some, not all, of the pores being blocked.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

The low grit sanding is more for adhesion of the topcoat. If you sand to fine the topcoat has nothing to grab onto. Plus if you sand to fine it closes the pores of the grain and makes it hard for the stain to penetrate. This is not a problem for most waterborne stains because wood will absorb the water readily. If you have plywood and solid wood in the same project then use the next grit up for the plywood. Same with endgrain. If you have a raised panel it is good practice to sand the endgrain portion of it one grit higher to slow the penetration of the stain down so you don't get it to dark. You still need to take precautions to alleviate the over darkening issue, but that helps.


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## captainawesome (Jun 21, 2012)

Anguspapa said:


> The majority of the boards I do are end grain also, thanks to the PK from Kendo, but I have also done and am doing some face grain board (more of a serving tray) for Christmas gifts. Is it ok to take it up to 220?
> Eric


CNYWOODS answered that question for me. What LeoG says confirms that also. The oil going on the boards isn't adhering, it's just soaking into the grain. The purpose of the oil is different than the purpose of the stain, so sanding to a much higher grit shouldn't matter. Besides, the cutting boards will get numerous coats over time (especially the week after completion) and the absorption should equalize in no time.

If I am wrong on this, someone please correct me.

Also, that really is one sweet board!


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

If all you are applying is oil and/or wax then sand up to 2000 grit. But if you are applying a film coating (lacquer, poly, etc) then you need to provide a surface that the finish can hold onto. That's what the lower grit paper does. Produces scratches the finish can flow around and lock onto.

Waxes and oils don't need that.


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

I should have added that I only sand to 150 (machine) 180 (hand) because I don't prefer the mirror finishes. Some folks like that while I prefer to feel the wood and see the grain. Scratching a finished surface with 000 wool is a great way to accomplish that shinny look if that's what you want.

As for cutting boards, I have never made one although I think you folks have done some amazing work. If I were to make a cutting board, I would probably sand to 100, stain, sand to 120, stain, sand to 150, stain and once more to 180. Maybe even a 220 round. Then I would follow with the food safe oils, 000 wool and more oil. I would think by staining through the grits, it would get your color into the wood and the higher sanding would be sealing that board which is the desired goal for cutting boards. 

Does that make any sense to you folks doing cutting boards? It seems you folks have a lot of work in those boards and have already displayed your gift of patience.


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## EWerner (Oct 14, 2010)

CNYWOODS said:


> But do a full set sample/test board.


2x. I couldn't agree more.


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## captainawesome (Jun 21, 2012)

BernieL said:


> As for cutting boards, I have never made one although I think you folks have done some amazing work. If I were to make a cutting board, I would probably sand to 100, stain, sand to 120, stain, sand to 150, stain and once more to 180. Maybe even a 220 round. Then I would follow with the food safe oils, 000 wool and more oil. I would think by staining through the grits, it would get your color into the wood and the higher sanding would be sealing that board which is the desired goal for cutting boards.
> 
> Does that make any sense to you folks doing cutting boards? It seems you folks have a lot of work in those boards and have already displayed your gift of patience.


Definitely don't stain a cutting board. That is a good way to get a lot of people sick. Besides, I really don't think it's needed.

Here are a couple of pictures of some boards I did last year. You can see that two of them have yet to receive a coating and one has.








This picture was taken right after putting the coating on the same three boards. You can see how much darker the one is, and the colors continue to darken a bit with each coat.








The board doesn't necessarily need to be sealed, just resistant. Just using the mineral oil will keep the board from drying out, and most people (myself included) will add paraffin wax to the oil for some added protection. 

Everything I've read says to oil the board "once a day for a week, once a week for a month, and once a month for life." I follow the first two sequences, and then usually the board only gets a coating every few months or so. The paraffin wax does help "seal" the board a little I guess, but mainly keeps you from having to recoat the board so often. Keep in mind that the cutting boards atleast (I don't know about the cheese boards) get washed with soap and water after each use.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

For solid wood the initial grit should be determined by the existing finish on the wood. If the lumberyard planed the wood you should be able to start your sanding at 150 grit and see if that remove any defects you see in the board. If you will be planing yourself, you can probably begin sanding with 150 grit. In both cases, you can then go to 180 grit with a sander and finish with 150 grit hand sanded with the grain.

With hardwood plywood, the factory completes their smoothing to about 180 grit. It's best not to machine sand at all unless there are obvious defects. Today's veneers are so thin that you can sand through in an instant. Its best to lightly hand sand with 180 grit then apply the first coat of film finish. Now you can hand sand with a slightly courser grit finishing again with 180. You will now be sand the finish, not the veneer and you will have less chance of sand through.

As already said, over sanding a hard wood can easily lead to burnishing the surface. This will lead to even more uneven coloring of any pigment stain used.


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## FishFactory (Nov 8, 2013)

I wouldn't go anywhere near VC ply with anything coarser than 120..... you will sand through the veneer in a blink of an eye.


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## RMDMan (Aug 29, 2013)

I cut my rails and stiles yesterday, ran them through the router, and hand sanded with 100. I'm amazed how smooth the 100 got the pieces! Wife hasn't picked a stain yet, but I will report and post pics when I get to staining.
Thanks to everyone for the interest and input.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Depending on how dark you want the stain you may want to go up in grit. 100 is pretty coarse. 120 is still coarse in my book, but if you want a dark stain on maple that where you stop. 150 is where I like to be. After the first coat of finish you won't have a lot of scuffing to do like 100 and 120 will leave you. But at 150 you might not be able to get the darkness you want, if that's what you are shooting for.


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