# Using a mandrel to make wine bottle stoppers



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Second attempt. The browser hung and I lost the post. :furious:

A recent thread about the types of bottle stoppers evolved into a question by Shop Dad and Rus Demka about using a mandrel to make a bottle stopper and they asked for a build thread.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/stainless-steel-vs-other-metals-bottle-stoppers-44498/

My intent is to cover the details of using a mandrel and not how to make a wine bottle stopper. There are many videos on making wine bottle stoppers on YouTube, including by a forum member John Lucas.

For the readers new to turning, I will try and cover the details, so some of this post may be redundant for other readers.

*What is a mandrel?*
It can be a means to cut threads in a previously drilled hole intended to screw in the wine bottle stopper.

This is one of Ruth Nile's mandrels.









This is a link if you want to purchase the wine bottle stoppers and/or mandrel.

http://nilesbottlestoppers.com/stoppers.html#Special

It can be a means to mount a blank which has been threaded by other means, such as a common bottoming tap. This is a home made mandrel/mounting block I use after tapping with the Ruth Niles mandrel.









We first start with a blank. Normally this would be a rectangular block. I had started to rough out this block some days ago.

A 1 1/2in x 1 1/2in x 3in piece of Kingwood purchased from my local Woodcraft. My first use of this wood.









Next step is to mount the piece "between centres" to get this to an initial round shape.

I happen to be using a spur centre and the spigot jaws for my scroll chuck. I could have used my #2 MT spur centre by itself.









I then mount the rounded blank in the scroll chuck with the #2 jaws. Note I use the live centre in the tailstock for alignment. I then replace the live centre with a drill.








*
Is a mandrel necessary?*
Short answer is No. There are other methods to mount the blank and create the threads, or just drill a hole and glue without threading.

I consider the use of a mandrel an aid to making the stopper, rather than a requirement.

Saving this before my browser crashes. I will continue in another post.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

*Next step - drilling*

Next step is to drill the hole.

You need to decide if you will be tapping the hole or whether you will make the hole the diameter of the post on the stopper and just use glue.

Both methods work. I like to tap since I feel it is easier for later mounting to finish the stopper.

If this is your first use of the mandrel/tap, I recommend confirming the diameter of the tap between the bottom of the threads.

My mandrel is 5/16in between the bottom of the threads.









I purchased the Ruth Niles drill bit. This is 23/64in diameter. I tried this and did not like it. The post is 3/8in diameter and so very little of the wood is left for the threads. Any tearout and you will essentially have no useful threads.









I ended up using an 11/32in drill bit. Smaller diameter bit in theory is deeper threads in the wood, but it is a trade off. We are typically tapping end grain and some woods will tap better than others.









I then replace the live centre with a drill chuck. The hole could be drilled in a drill press, but this would be more effort to remove, clamp for the drill press, etc.

It is important to mark the drill bit for the desired depth. In this case I am using a simple piece of masking tape. When I drill dowels, I like to use a stop collar.









Showing the drill at the bottom mark.









Saving to continue in another post.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

*Next step - tapping*

Inspect the hole. If you are concerned about tear out, you can reinforce the hole with CA glue.

The drill chuck is replaced with the mandrel which in my lathe uses a #2 MT. Showing the groove in the mandrel.

This could also be done with a common bottoming tap. I do not have picture of this. The challenge is keeping the tap centred.









The next step would be better with a video. The tapping requires simultaneous *manual *rotation of the headstock and *manual *rotation of the tailstock ram.

This can be a delicate step. If you mess up, you can drill out the hole to fit a dowel, glue in the dowel and start over with the drill.

You want the mandrel to be going into the blank at the same rate as you are rotating the headstock. This may take some practice. If you feel you need practice, then replace with a block of scrap. 









I do not try and cut the threads in a single move. I will back out the tap, again need to rotate the headstock and tailstock in sync or else you will strip the threads.

If you have any concerns with the thread, inspect the partial tapped hole and reinforce with CA gllue. Remove the chips from the mandrel before going back for later threading.

Once the hole has been threaded, and the thread tested with a stopper, I would normally turn this end of the blank.

Since I am concentrating on the aspects of the mandrel, I am skipping further turning for the moment.

The end of the blank does need to be turned square before continuing.

I would then apply my home made mounting block. Ensure this spins true before continuing.









I then reverse the blank in the chuck. I did use the live centre to help in alignment. Not shown in the picture. It is important to get the blank spinning true.









If you do not have a scroll chuck, you can use the mandrel to mount the blank to continue turning.









Thanks for looking. I hope this helps Shop Dad and Rus Demka.

Comments and questions welcome.


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## MagGeorge (Jul 5, 2012)

Can't wait for the finished product. Keep us posted.


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## RusDemka (Jun 9, 2012)

Thanks Dave


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Terrific Dave, that helps a lot and some great tips. Is there any advantage to the home made mandrel/mounting block? Could everything be done just as easily with the mandril?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Shop Dad said:


> Terrific Dave, that helps a lot and some great tips. Is there any advantage to the home made mandrel/mounting block? Could everything be done just as easily with the mandril?


You could do everything with the steel mandrel.

I originally made my home made mandrel because I had not finished turning the tapped end before reversing and then wanted to have a wooden block in case I got too close.

The home made mandrel/mounting block is a convenience for my setup. 

It allows me to leave the chuck in place and avoid using a morse taper attachment in the headstock. 

I appreciate it only takes a few seconds to remove the chuck. However, since I added the vacuum chuck adapter, it is more of a PITA to remove morse taper attachments from the head stock. I have to remove the vacuum chuck adapter, put this down in a location where dust will not get on the lubricant and then use the tommy bar.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Shop Dad said:


> Terrific Dave, that helps a lot and some great tips. Is there any advantage to the home made mandrel/mounting block? Could everything be done just as easily with the mandril?


 I dont use a home made mandrel, just the Niles mandrel that he has pictured. It is designed to fit the morse taper or to fit in a scroll chuck. Mine dosnt feel secure in the chuck so I use it in the morse taper which requires a draw bar.

I also tap mine by hand. I leave the mandrel mounted in the headstock side and cut the threads by spinning the blank on with my hand. I dont have the patience to do it the way he pictured allthough his way is way more accurate than mine. I personally dont worry about a few torn threads because I put a dab of epoxy on the threads during final assembly anyhow. I know people who sell bottle stoppers dont like to epoxy the threads in case they make one that dosnt sell, they just turn a different one and reuse the hardware. When I make on that no one wants to buy, it becomes someones gift!!

Nice tutorial Dave!!


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## RusDemka (Jun 9, 2012)

BassBlaster said:


> I dont use a home made mandrel, just the Niles mandrel that he has pictured. It is designed to fit the morse taper or to fit in a scroll chuck. Mine dosnt feel secure in the chuck so I use it in the morse taper which requires a draw bar.
> 
> I also tap mine by hand. I leave the mandrel mounted in the headstock side and cut the threads by spinning the blank on with my hand. I dont have the patience to do it the way he pictured allthough his way is way more accurate than mine. I personally dont worry about a few torn threads because I put a dab of epoxy on the threads during final assembly anyhow. I know people who sell bottle stoppers dont like to epoxy the threads in case they make one that dosnt sell, they just turn a different one and reuse the hardware. When I make on that no one wants to buy, it becomes someones gift!!
> 
> Nice tutorial Dave!!


Would it make sense to make a whole bunch of different profiles then have the customer pick it out of a lineup then install the hardware with glue?


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Yeah, if you were doing a show or just sold a lot of stoppers in general, that wouldnt be a bad idea. I dont sell many because most of my sales are word of mouth and I dont know many wine drinkers.


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## RusDemka (Jun 9, 2012)

BassBlaster said:


> Yeah, if you were doing a show or just sold a lot of stoppers in general, that wouldnt be a bad idea. I dont sell many because most of my sales are word of mouth and I dont know many wine drinkers.


Facebook?


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

thanks for doing this dave
i made on stopper a few yrs back but im really wanting to make some more soon


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

RusDemka said:


> Facebook?


 I havnt had a single request for a stopper from my FB page. I put a couple pics up there but nothing.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

BassBlaster said:


> I dont use a home made mandrel, just the Niles mandrel that he has pictured. It is designed to fit the morse taper or to fit in a scroll chuck. Mine doesn't feel secure in the chuck so I use it in the morse taper *which requires a draw bar*...


I was wondering about this after reading on the Niles site that the mandrel is tapped for a draw bar. Why do you have to use a draw bar? Isn't the fit of the taper enough to keep it secure? Did you have to make/buy a draw bar for your lathe or did it come with one?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

ChiknNutz said:


> I was wondering about this after reading on the Niles site that the mandrel is tapped for a draw bar. Why do you have to use a draw bar? Isn't the fit of the taper enough to keep it secure? Did you have to make/buy a draw bar for your lathe or did it come with one?


The mandrel is tapped. I think this is in case the mandrel's morse taper is a loose fit on the headstock.

The "draw bar" would be as simple as a piece of threaded rod, cut to length, threaded into the mandrel and then a nut and washer on the end of the hand wheel.

I purchased the threaded rod, but have not needed to use this. My morse taper is a nice fit.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

That's kinda what I figured all was needed for a draw bar. I've done metal lathe work in the past (quite a few years ago now) and thought that's all that it was, but wanted to confirm that it was the same with a wood lathe too.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I turned my first stopper this weekend (woo hoo! :clap and I just used the mandrel. The only time it slipped was when I was tapping the threads. Mind you I did not have an 11/32" drill bit so I used 5/16" which made it tight. (It did work but I'll be looking for an 11/32" bit for the others.)

Thank you again Dave. This walk-through made it clear and easy. I think I'll be able to knock these out pretty quickly. Just need to decide what finish I prefer. What do you all use?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Shop Dad said:


> I turned my first stopper this weekend (woo hoo! :clap and I just used the mandrel. The only time it slipped was when I was tapping the threads. Mind you I did not have an 11/32" drill bit so I used 5/16" which made it tight. (It did work but I'll be looking for an 11/32" bit for the others.)
> 
> Thank you again Dave. This walk-through made it clear and easy. I think I'll be able to knock these out pretty quickly. Just need to decide what finish I prefer. What do you all use?


Well done on completing the first stopper. I know your woo hoo feeling. :thumbup:

5/16in drill is tight. I am not surprised if the morse taper spun. This may have happened even with a draw bar.

I am happy if the thread has helped at least one person. :thumbsup:

I have been using Shellawax.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Mer...e_Code=packard&Category_Code=finish-shellawax

I also purchased a Mylands Friction polish, but I have not used this yet.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Mer...Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=finish-mylnd


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## Ronny V (Dec 12, 2015)

*Solving problems with Ruth Niles bottle stopper thread*

Hi woodturners,
I'm Ron Verbeek, short intro.
I'm a woodturner from The Netherlands.
I own a small billiard cue repair center in Goes and love woodturning.
I read som comments on the threading problems using the Ruth Niles bottle stopper mandril in combination with the Ruth Niles drill bit. I encountered the same problem, not enough wood after threading the blank. Today I tried a (metric) 9 mm drill, drilled the blanc in the drill press and threaded the blank by hand, retrackting the thread 4 to 5 times, result, works perfectly.
I recenly tried to lay my hands on pointed drill bits in inch sizes, unfortunately not available on this side of the pond, glad my 9mm bit does the job.
In case you are interested, visit my website for an overview on woodturning projects as well as cue repairs.www.biljartkeureparatie-toptip.nl


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## Big Jim (Sep 29, 2011)

*Wow*

Seems like a lot of wasted time and effort to me. I make at least 50 stoppers every day and sometimes up to 80 in a day.
I start with 1-1/2" stock and cut it to length, between 1-/2 and 2" long.
Then I dill a hole in the center the desired depth. Next I use a 12 volt drill to TAP the hole. Lastly I use a mandrel and turn the stopper on the mandrel.
Piece of cake! Maybe I should take pictures or even make a video.
Big Jim :vs_love:


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## guglipm63 (Feb 27, 2013)

Big Jim said:


> Seems like a lot of wasted time and effort to me. I make at least 50 stoppers every day and sometimes up to 80 in a day. I start with 1-1/2" stock and cut it to length, between 1-/2 and 2" long. Then I dill a hole in the center the desired depth. Next I use a 12 volt drill to TAP the hole. Lastly I use a mandrel and turn the stopper on the mandrel. Piece of cake! Maybe I should take pictures or even make a video. Big Jim :vs_love:


I do the same but have found that if I use a soft wood I don't tap the threads, I just let the threads on the mandrel cut them


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Use a home made mandrel consisting of a 3/8" bolt with a 1/4" thick "washer" threaded and turned tight on the bolt to where the threads stop. Head of the bolt is cut off, leaving about 1-1/2" un-threaded shaft. Chucked in the metal lathe, and "washer" turned to same diameter as the stopper hardware. This is chucked in a 3'8" collet in the wood lathe. 

I use a brass threaded insert in the stopper, as I not only have better luck that way, but the parts are replaceable. Key to the brass insert is to put the blank in a vise on the drill press, centering as close as possible by eye. Then a forstner bit the same size as the stopper hardware diameter or slightly larger is used to face off the end of the blank. The blank is then drilled and the brass insert threaded in. After that, it's just simply screw the blank on the mandrel, bring up the tailstock, and turn away. Using the forstner bit insures the blank face and the brass bushing are in line with the mandrel and lathe center line.


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