# Waterlox vs Pure Tung/Citric Solvent for Madrone & Poplar



## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

I recently finished a couple of nightstands, one in madrone and one in poplar. I'm indecisive on how to finish them. I have some pure tung oil and citric solvent from realmilkpaint.com. I have used this combination before and I like the finish it provides, though I'm not sure how well it would hold up on a relatively high-use surface like a nightstand. I also have some Waterlox original which I have not used before, but would likely provide a more durable finish.

Any opinions on which finish would be a better choice for these two woods? The tung/citric finish is going to be much more pleasant to apply, but may require more frequent maintenance. My reservation with trying the Waterlox is it may look a little too glossy for my taste. It also contains linseed oil which could darken the finish more than I'd like. A third option is to start with the tung citric and finish with the Waterlox.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

And by finished I mean completed and ready for a finish to be applied


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't believe Waterlox contains linseed oil, only tung oil. It will also darken the wood some, but not as much as linseed oil.

One of the things I like about Waterlox original is that you can control the gloss according to how many coats you apply. I just keep putting it on until I'm happy with the gloss and then stop. I usually apply the first coat by slopping it on and continually applying until it looks like it won't absorb any more. For the second and subsequent coats I use a good brush and try to keep it as thin as possible. When it looks right, I stop. If you get too much gloss, some 0000 steel wool and wax will dull it and leave a very nice feeling surface. 

PS, don't leave rags soaked with Waterlox. The tung oil can spontaneously combust.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks for the input, I might give the Waterlox a shot. 

I like the appearance of the furniture The Joinery produces in Portland ( www.thejoinery.com ) and I believe they use a mix of tung, linseed, soy, and citric solvent. This had me leaning toward the pure tung oil over the Waterlox, but if I can control the sheen of the Waterlox to some degree, I may be able to achieve a similar finish with a little added durability.

Waterlox does contain linseed oil, at least according to the label. It is the fifth ingredient listed by weight. Tung oil is second, however, so the ratio obviously favors the tung oil.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I stand corrected. I had always thought that Waterlox's claim to fame was that they only used tung oil. At first, I thought they'd changed the formula, but I just checked an old can and it also says it contained linseed oil. I'm disillusioned now, but I'll probably resume liking Waterlox again tomorrow.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

Waterlox it is. Just finished putting the first coat on the poplar piece. It always takes much longer than I expect! Do you rotate your workpiece when finishing, or leave it in one orientation? I typically try to avoid touching it so I leave it the same way, but these pieces require a lot of interior finish and have me reconsidering.

The working properties of the Waterlox remind me a lot of Daly's Benmatte, which I believe is a similar tung oil varnish.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Waterlox allows for some time to brush it, so I will sometimes brush both with the grain and against the grain, but I always make sure the last pass is with the grain. When I use Waterlox, I do the first coat or two by flooding the surface then wiping off the excess. When I get to the coats I apply with a brush, I apply it like I'm running out of finish, like I'm trying to stretch every drop. I like a close to the wood look, so my logic is that this gives me a thin even coat. But, everyone has their own way. I think you'll find that waterlox will pop the grain nicely on your madrone. 

Again, don't forget to safely dispose of oil soaked rags. That spontaneous combustion thing is for real.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks Quicksilver. I did the first coat with a 2" foam brush. The wood soaked it right up in most places. I'll probably follow with a light 400 grit sanding, then apply another coat, then move to 600 grit, the rub in a couple more light coats. I'm after the 'in the wood' look as well.

I have been laying the rags out flat on a concrete surface until they dry out. Also I believe using a proper respirator when working around organic solvents is important.

Waterlox did darken the madrone significantly, probably more so than tung/citric would have. It's a little darker look than I was after, but I think once a film builds up after a couple more coats it will come out looking pretty nice. My next few projects will be with walnut, and I think Waterlox will be a perfect finish for that.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Be careful, both the Waterlox and the citrix/tung prod have distinct, possibly long lasting odors. Use in a bedroom may not make the home owners happly.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

In this case the homeowner is me :smile: I do anticipate leaving the piece in the workshop for a few weeks to let it fully cure before moving it into a bedroom, although even then I have read Waterlox can take up to six months to cure completely. I imagine having those fumes accumulate in a room where you're sleeping isn't the best idea. Are there any finishes you're aware of that don't require so long to cure? I find the citric/tung blend loses its odor within a week or so.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

I'm four coats in. Here are my thoughts on Waterlox so far. 

1) It's not the easiest finish to use. Time will tell if it's worth the extra trouble.

2) I used a foam brush to apply the first two coats, sanding with 400 grit after each one. In hindsight, a brush applies too much of the finish. This is one of those finishes where less is more, even for the first coat. The poplar is more porous than the madrone, so the foam brush worked better. The madrone is pretty dense and I ended up with too thick of a film and some runs after the second coat. I think a lint-free rag/cloth is the way to go for every coat. Rubbing the finish in with a cloth/rag may require more coats, but saves a lot of time sanding the finish back when too much is applied.

3) When rubbing the finish in, it's tough to find the right application rate. Too much and you've got the same problem as the brush. Too little and the finish dries too quickly, causing the rag (in this case I used a blue shop towel) to try to stick to the surface.

4) Even after four coats, I'm not getting uniform coverage yet. I sanded the wood pretty extensively before I started, all the way down to 280 grit, so the surface was nice and smooth when I started. I'm still seeing some streak marks from the motion of the rag. Hopefully they will fill in with a fifth coat.

5) As with any finish, some dust/lint will settle as it dries. I'm not sure yet as to the best way to solve this problem after the final coat. For the fourth coat today, I applied the finish with a rag, lightly wet-sanded with 600 grit, then went over the surface again with the rag. Easy solution if it isn't the last coat.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

I always thin varnish if im going to wipe it on with a rag. I've done that with Waterlox and it helps. Too thick to rub on otherwise


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

Thinning is probably not a bad idea.

I was vacuuming off the dust after sanding following the first coat and put a couple of scratches in the surface. They became apparent after the second coat dried. I sanded them out with 280 followed by 400, but four coats later those areas still haven't blended very well with the rest of the surface. Luckily it's only on one face, but I may have to sand it back and start over there.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

Any tips for smoothing out the final coat? Despite wet sanding the previous few coats, I have ended up with a good deal of dust in the finish, mostly around the edges. Was thinking about wet sanding with water and 800 grit.


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## Epos7 (Aug 27, 2015)

It's taken me a while to report back, but the Waterlox turned out really nicely on the madrone. It was more difficult to work with than the tung/citric combo, but the end result is great. It took several months for the Waterlox to finish hardening and it looks to be a very durable finish.


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