# Orange Peel?



## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

I believe I have some orange peel on a few face frames, what am I doing wrong? First I'm using WB premium semi gloss, used there sanding sealer. I'm using an Earlex 5500 with a 1mm tip. My shop temp is 69-71'. It's a new gallon and my gun was cleaned prior. I did not thin, but viscosity was right on to start. My first coat was very light as was my second, about an 1 between each, but still got what I think is orange peel. I say light but maybe light to me is not light enough, or should I do heavy coats? These are shop cabinets and my test pieces. I have sprayed lacquer before just fine. Any suggestions? I have sanded it back down with 220. Should I not seal it, it states self sealing? I attached a picture. 
Thanks


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

There are many reasons that can cause orange peel. It can be from: 

Improper gun settings...improper air/fluid mix
Too low of an air pressure...not atomizing the mix
Distance from the subject
Mix used needs to be thinned
Drying too fast
Pattern too large
Moving the pattern too fast
Surface preparation

There are other causes, that can be worked out with a little experimenting prior to coating a subject piece. Using scraps, in a well ventilated area (preferably set up like a booth), using a respirator.











 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

When you spray the poly you should spray a full wet coat. Spraying light coats invites orange peal. The problem is there a fine line between a full wet coat and having it run so it will take some practice. If it still orange peals with a full wet coat than you need to thin it. As far as the sealer it wouldn't matter with the orange peal. The sealer just fills better and is easier to sand. 

From where you are not since you've sanded the orange peal out, I would just spray another coat.


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## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

Steve is it a poly? It's not there polyoxide. It just labeled premium WB finish?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

CNYWOODS said:


> Steve is it a poly? It's not there polyoxide. It just labeled premium WB finish?


It's probably a waterbased polyurethane. What does the label say?








 







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## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

Here's a link says waterborne lacquer. 

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/CLS-4600/Gallon-Semi-Gloss-CrystaLac


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Can't say I'm a big fan of Crystal lac, not even sure why they call it lac since it doesn't behave like lacquer. Using the sealer is fine. The CL is hard as a rock and you will be able to sand the sealer for a smoother surface. Looks like you didn't apply enough material. Unlike a lacquer, it won't self level or melt in. You'll have to sand out the roughness before continuing. Watch your gun distance, you don't want to see the material blowing as you spray. Try to get an even wet coat. You also have to watch for over spray, like on the interior of cabinets, it will drop partially dry and leave the surface seedy. Get some good lights at angles so you can see the build on the surface. Once you have an even wetness, stop.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I bought a gallon of water based lacquer about 25 years ago and didn't like it but it was just one brand and a long time ago. I'm sure they've improved the technology since then but as far as your orange peal, it would be the same process as the water based polyurethane I assumed it was. Any fast drying paint you need to spray a full wet coat to keep from getting orange peal. What happens is the paint will set up and dry before it flows out. If you put enough paint on, it should flow out and then dry.


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

You have been given a lot of good tips. Hope you are not overwhelmed by them. I would add one simple suggestion that you may already do, but has not been mentioned. When spraying, look immediately behind the spray pattern to see how the finish is laying down. Like has been mentioned, you want a full wet coat to give the finish a chance to flow out. Many people make the mistake of looking where they are going, and this takes a little practice.

If this and/or the other tips don't give good results, call the paint company and ask about an additive to slow the drying time to see if that will help. I haven't used a turbine, but have heard that they get hot. If so, the warm airstream from the gun may not allow the finish to flow out and level. Maybe someone that is shooting they same/similar product with similar eqipment can help out. Good luck, and let us know how things work out for you.


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## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for all the info guys! Now should I increase my flow or slow down my movement?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

CNYWOODS said:


> Thanks for all the info guys! Now should I increase my flow or slow down my movement?


It could be a little bit of both. If your pattern is set too wide, you may not be getting enough media put down. If you use a lot of light so you can see how wet your path is getting as you go, you can tell with the glare from the light.

In doing panels, set your pattern with an overlap to keep a wet path, but not enough to get a build up that can run from the overlap. It takes some experimenting with some gun settings, like pattern shape, fluid air mix, air pressure to the gun, and air pressure at the gun. I would suggest installing a small air pressure gauge at the base of the handle of the gun, to regulate the gun. It's also a good idea to use a disposable bulb filter at the gun.

In experimenting, practice distance from the subject, and test out patterns and fluid/air mix settings, along with movement speed. If you do panels, start the spraying before you start at the edge, and try to maintain a distance parallel to the subject until you spray off the other edge.








 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Without being there and seeing you spray it, it wouldn't be possible to say. The only thing I can tell you is to find the point where the finish runs and stay just short of that. You might try to spray some scraps stood up vertical to tell the point where the finish runs.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

CNYWOODS said:


> Thanks for all the info guys! Now should I increase my flow or slow down my movement?


I spray only M.L.CAMPBELL lacquer . I would slow down a little and get a wet coat. Only going from the back to the frount. The over spray seam's to blow to the frount. so if going frount to back you will get over spray which you don't want. My spray gun is a HVLP with a 2 mm nozel and 30 lbs of air . I get a perfect job every time. It take's practice. Flat board spray different than board's that are like standing up. a chance of run's on standing boards. flat spray very good. good luck


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

del schisler said:


> Flat board spray different than board's that are like standing up. a chance of run's on standing boards. flat spray very good. good luck


The downside to consider spraying flat is that there is the propensity to lay on too much finish, which can puddle/pool. Laying flat is also a good catch for anything, such as dust, to fall on the wet surface. Laying flat takes up more room.








 







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## CNYWOODS (Apr 22, 2012)

I'll try some heavier coats and see where that gets me. I also ordered some thinner, but try again as is. Thanks guys. Let you know.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

*Off the wall ? ? ?*

Did you use an automotive wax/polish on your table saw?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

That would make for fisheye, not orange peel.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> The downside to consider spraying flat is that there is the propensity to lay on too much finish, which can puddle/pool. Laying flat is also a good catch for anything, such as dust, to fall on the wet surface. Laying flat takes up more room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I been doing jewelry box's for yrs. Spraying flat for the lid's and up rite for the box part. Never a problum. You have to get it down as far as spraying. I never have a dust problum i have a very clean shop. I have 2 fan's 36" that i run when sawing and sanding and when done i use the air hose and blow dust and what ever is on the floor to the end of the shop and use the delta vac system and suck all up so nothing is left. Just take's a min to do that . I have been doing this from the start about 20 yrs now in the shop. It stay's clean. I have vac hose's to each machine which help's also have the 30 gal can before the bag on the vac that sure does a good job. Spraying just take's some time to get thing's right. I spray only lacquer. thanks for posting del


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

Water based lacquer is kind of odd to me. True lacquer comes from the oily sap of a plant. Because it is oily and oil and water don't mix, is it not true lacquer or are they taking dried lacquer powder and dissolving it in a solvent? If they are using a solvent, then that can't be water based either. Can it? My point being, it can't be true lacquer or it can't be truly water based. The question is, what is it and how is it made? This will help in knowing how to apply.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Leo G said:


> That would make for fisheye, not orange peel.


Didn't think of that.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

>>>> it can't be true lacquer or it can't be truly water based.

It's basically an acrylic resin waterborne finish. It has no real lacquer in it. The marketeers have elected to call in a "lacquer" as, in their opinion, it has some characteristics of solvent based lacquer as buyers are familiar with the name.


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