# Lacquer Finish damaged by water



## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

I took a couple of pepper mills to a local store to see if he would sell them on consignment. I had one that I did not have a grinder in just to show the style. Anyway it was raining and when I got back home I noticed spots on the mill. I tried to buff it out but no success. I further wet it down to see what would happen and it ruined the finish. I thought lacquer was supposed to be more water resistance. I used Deft wipe on lacquer. Any suggestions?
I will post pictures later as I have a te time approaching.
Tom
PS I don't know the status of the ones left at the store. I will check on Monday.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

*Pictures*

Attached is a picture of the finish damaged by water. I had a bottle stopper that I had finished but not buffed or waxed and I ran water on it, it also damaged the finish. I belive the peper mill and bottle stopped will be subject to getting wet during use in a kitchen. Not sure why finish is not holding up Need help!
Tom


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't know if you have a way to spray, but if you do, I believe if you spray them with just lacquer thinner the spots will magically go away. (Don't wipe the lacquer thinner on you will ruin the finish)


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Lacquer is one ot the least water resistant finishes. The good news is it should be easy to fix. Just thin down your wiping lacquer a little and give it another coat. The solvent should melt what is already on there and clear up the white spots. Then put an additional coat of un-thined wipe on lacquer. In the future if you want a more water resistant finish I would use a oil based polyurethane.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Rick Mosher said:


> I don't know if you have a way to spray, but if you do, I believe if you spray them with just lacquer thinner the spots will magically go away. (Don't wipe the lacquer thinner on you will ruin the finish)


Rick, thanks for the help. I did wipe it down with mineral spirits to remove any wax. I don't believe it will be to hard to sand and refinish. I am wanting to sell some pepper mills and stoppers but I don't want to sell anything that a fees drops of water is going to damage the finish.
Tom


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> Lacquer is one ot the least water resistant finishes. The good news is it should be easy to fix. Just thin down your wiping lacquer a little and give it another coat. The solvent should melt what is already on there and clear up the white spots. Then put an additional coat of un-thined wipe on lacquer. In the future if you want a more water resistant finish I would use a oil based polyurethane.


Thanks Steve, I guess I am going to go to an oil based polyurethane in the future. I really like the luster of the lacquer after it was buffed. Do you think poly will give the same luster ? I may go to some type of oil finish for the stoppers.
Tom


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Lacquer is not a bad finish as far as moisture resistance. Probably similar to the oil based polyurethane. The main issue is the dry film thickness of the finish. A wipe on finish by nature leaves very little finish on the surface making it more susceptible to water damage. A heavier film build of any finish is better for moisture protection and as you get into catalyzed finishes they are even better. The KCMA (kitchen cabinet manufacturing Assoc) calls for a conversion varnish or better finish. (AWI TR5 or TR6)


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

TomC said:


> Thanks Steve, I guess I am going to go to an oil based polyurethane in the future. I really like the luster of the lacquer after it was buffed. Do you think poly will give the same luster ? I may go to some type of oil finish for the stoppers.
> Tom


 You should be able to achieve the same luster with polyurethane as lacquer. It's just a pain to wait for each coat to dry.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> You should be able to achieve the same luster with polyurethane as lacquer. It's just a pain to wait for each coat to dry.


The lacquer dries quickly between coats on the lathe. I was just checking out finishes on the net. Generals woodturners finish came up. I saw one review and it looked OK. However, it did not mention if it's resistant to water damage.
Tom


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

TomC said:


> The lacquer dries quickly between coats on the lathe. I was just checking out finishes on the net. Generals woodturners finish came up. I saw one review and it looked OK. However, it did not mention if it's resistant to water damage.
> Tom


I probably should have told the whole story. There are three basic types of lacquer formulated for wood. Normally when someone says lacquer they are talking about a nitrocellulose lacquer which is the most common. It was used a lot for kitchen cabinets in the 1970's because it dries fast and easy to work with. The problem came from people letting water run down the front of the sink cabinet lifting the finish. Back then I used it for furniture in my house and everywhere a sweaty glass was set on a regular basis it lifted the finish. Your rubbing lacquer is the same product and because it is a rubbing lacquer it is thinned down so you are just not building as thick of a finish as I did on furniture with a sprayer. Nitrocellulose lacquer is a good finish but it isn't very water resistant. Another lacquer that is more water resistant is a pre-catalyzed lacquer. It works much the same way except if you are going to use a sealer, you would use a vinyl sealer. The drawback is that the finish is catalyzed at the store and has a limited shelf life, normally 6 months to a year. More water resistant would be a fully catalyzed lacquer. With that you would also use with vinyl sealer and add the catalyst to each batch and not keep what is left over. Any of these finishes can used as a rubbing lacquer by adding retarder thinner and lacquer thinner. 

If it were me finishing turnings I would use a fast dry polyurethane which is available in a aerosol can. It doesn't dry as fast as lacquer but would finish better spraying it and should be sandable after drying overnight.


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