# Learning Hand Planes



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I have been reading everything I can about hand planes. In all my years of wood working I was always too busy trying to make a living to have anything to do with the fantastic old planes, there just wasn't time to learn about them. Now I am retired and all the great old planes I could have had are now gone or are hard to get. I am green as grass when it comes to the old planes but I can't learn enough fast enough about them. I am fascinated with them now and want to learn all I can. 

I have been reading here on the forum all I can find and have learned a lot. I have also been reading here
http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/planes1.php#planes1_anchor10

and here
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

Until recently I didn't even know which way the blade went in, bevel up or down. I hate to admit my ignorance in the older tools but like I said, there was just no time to learn about the old ways. Anyone have any advise to what other materials to read about hand planes?


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Well, I suppose the woodworking gods will forgive you for not learning sooner. :laughing:

Christopher Schwartz is very good with hand tools like planes. You might start over at Popular Woodworking's web site. I know there is a bunch of info and videos on Fine Woodworking's site as well.

Your best bet is to frequent flea markets and find some cheap that just need a little TLC. Good luck!


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## Taylormade (Feb 3, 2011)

Well Jim, you've come (returned) to the right place. Brink, Tom and Joesbucketorust are excellent resources for all things hand plane related.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Shop Dad said:


> Well, I suppose the woodworking gods will forgive you for not learning sooner. :laughing:
> 
> Christopher Schwartz is very good with hand tools like planes. You might start over at Popular Woodworking's web site. I know there is a bunch of info and videos on Fine Woodworking's site as well.
> 
> Your best bet is to frequent flea markets and find some cheap that just need a little TLC. Good luck!


I appreciate that, I watch the Woodwright's shop on educational TV everyday and Christopher Schwartz is on there quite often, he was on there last night and was showing different planes and how to use them. I usually don't go to yard sales or flea markets but I will now, thanks for the info.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Also check out Rob Cosman. He has some great DVDs and a fair amount of stuff on Youtube.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Another alternative to flea markets, garage sales and antique stores; and if you have more money than time - check out the new planes available from Lea Nielson, Lee Valley/Veritas and Clifton. I've never spent the money, but I've handled a few and they are on par with the best ever built. If nothing else, they are fun to look at.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

sawdustfactory said:


> Also check out Rob Cosman. He has some great DVDs and a fair amount of stuff on Youtube.


I have his web page bookmarked, thanks for the tip. Looks like a lot of good reading there.

Wrangler, I know what you mean about the LN planes, they are beautiful, I would be afraid to use one.


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## Benny Blanco (Apr 21, 2012)

I found the best learning method after reading up on them "and" geting a sharp edge, is to simply start planing boards.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Jim,

My story is similar to yours. Although we used to build top quality cabinets for high end homes, we seldom used hand tools as is the case in most production oriented shops.

I've owned hand planes for up to 40 years but it's only in the last five that I've taken the time to learn how to sharpen, tune and use my planes with skill. What I've discovered is that a well tuned plane is a pleasure to use. 

Bret


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Lola Ranch said:


> Jim,
> 
> My story is similar to yours. Although we used to build top quality cabinets for high end homes, we seldom used hand tools as is the case in most production oriented shops.
> 
> ...


I wish I could have gotten all of my dad's ole planes before a dope head cleaned them out, he had some really nice ones and I know one or two were 24 inches long. This is going to be fun learning and using the planes, sharpening itself is a big step in the right direction. I have a couple of #4 Stanleys and a block plane or two now but I will be checking out the flea markets.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

When you get that block plane to smoothly slice oak end grain, you have sharpening down pretty well.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Watch this show. 
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/3100/3105.html


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## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

Great link Hammer1. That is an awesome primer on planes for us noobs.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hammer, I have that video saved and have watched it several times already, it for sure has some good information on it.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Wrangler said:


> When you get that block plane to smoothly slice oak end grain, you have sharpening down pretty well.


That is the way I test my carving knives and gouges to see if they are sharp enough, if it will cut smoothly and leave the wood shiny and not a cloudy look, it is sharp.


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

Jim,

I have quite a few planes and use them on pretty much every job. If you have any questions you call get ahold of me.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Keith Mathewson said:


> Jim,
> 
> I have quite a few planes and use them on pretty much every job. If you have any questions you call get ahold of me.


I recently got some pretty old (old to me  )Stanly number 4, 5, and 6 planes off eBay. Some issues i have with my new toys...

One of the totes is cracked most of the way through, so I'll need to make a new one. Not a huge problem. 

The biggest problem probably is that one of the lateral adjusters isn't doing anything. The plane iron and iron cap aren't OEM, so I'm not sure if this is why. 

All three blades are really screwed up. The edge isn't perpendicular or straight across its edge either. I know I'll need to try to straighten the edge and hone all the blades, but I may need to buy new ones since they're so screwed up. Any advice? (I know that was a lot for one post)


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Island Boy,

My advise is to take those origional irons and try to regrind and sharpen them. The real trick is not getting them hot enough to change the color ( you don't want to gee any blue develop). It's all about practice!! You have some great practice pieces. If you screw them up it is no big loss.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Wrangler said:


> Island Boy,
> 
> My advise is to take those origional irons and try to regrind and sharpen them. The real trick is not getting them hot enough to change the color ( you don't want to gee any blue develop). It's all about practice!! You have some great practice pieces. If you screw them up it is no big loss.


Good point... I cant screw it up any worse than it already is. I just finished building a bench grinder from several half working grinders I got off my buddy who works at a hardware store. The normal grit grinding wheel is probably too harsh for trying the blades I assume?


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## Tools (May 30, 2012)

I'd suggest before buying planes, first get a copy of "The Handplane Book". It's fantastic and covers pretty much all the ground you'll need from many different angles.

Unless you get caught up in 'plane collecting' or associated hording behaviors, you can get an array of fantastic working planes for very little cost, if you're willing to do a bit of work and sidestep the cork-sniffing nonsense associated with brand prestige.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Tools said:


> Unless you get caught up in 'plane collecting' or associated hording behaviors, you can get an array of fantastic working planes for very little cost, if you're willing to do a bit of work and sidestep the cork-sniffing nonsense associated with brand prestige.


Harsh!!


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Why all the brand bashing Tool? If I have discretionary income and wish to buy a Lie Nielsen or Veritas plane that is pretty much good to go right out of the box (short of sharpening), instead of finding an old Stanley or Bailey, taking the time to refurbish, possibly having to replace a blade, tote, knob or anything else, what do you care?


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

The fellow has a point, why spend money if it doesn't work any better. I started out with old planes and some were able to be restored, mostly with a fair amount of time & effort and some weren't. If you find a good old plane then replacing the iron and chip breaker may be all that is required to have a good user, these tend to have been made prior to WWII. However old poorly made planes don't improve with age and no amount of effort on ones part with bring it up to an acceptable standard. My personal experience has led me to purchase a plane I know to have been well made rather than take a chance trying to restore something which wasn't worth buying when it was new.


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## Benny Blanco (Apr 21, 2012)

Another direction of thought on hand planes!

I found the quality of machine work "actual surface finish" in these two areas make a difference in plane performance.

A. Where the blade contacts the frog surface.

B. Where the frog mounts to the base of the plane, "two surfaces there- bottom of the frog, the base where the frog mounts.

The machining on these 3 surfaces are often rough, damaged, or just not flat.

This problem results in a poor interface of these critical parts, resulting in flex, that causes vibration, shorter edge life, and poor finish planing on the work piece.
The blade will distort, the frog will distort, simply from clamping these bad surfaces together

This happens on many types of machinery, this is the method to correct that problem, that had been used perhaps 2 hundred years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_scraper


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## Tools (May 30, 2012)

sawdustfactory said:


> Why all the brand bashing Tool? If I have discretionary income and wish to buy a Lie Nielsen or Veritas plane that is pretty much good to go right out of the box (short of sharpening), instead of finding an old Stanley or Bailey, taking the time to refurbish, possibly having to replace a blade, tote, knob or anything else, what do you care?


I don't care. 
Likewise, I wouldn't care if you made a big bonfire in your back yard and just lit your cash on fire. That's your business, but that isn't 'the question' asked by this man.

If you want to buy a $25,000 wristwatch and delude yourself into believing it helps you keep better time that's certainly your business. I couldn't care any less and fully realize that the people who engage in these absurd consumer patterns have elaborately primped narratives to rationalize their superstitions (as well as a large group of 'fellow believers' to provide them with emotional support). Unfortunately, I spent way too many moons working in strategic marketing and brand awareness here in Chicago. My exposure to 'the truth' woke me up. 

I've seen the wizard behind the curtain that very, very, very few people have, as far as how 'high end' brands, manufacturers and marketers convince you that their product is better. It amounts to a tiny group of incredibly intelligent and creative people figuring out ways to separate the hoi polloi from their money, usually via leveraging psychological fragilities relating to ones self-worth and how people identify themselves with the status associated with what they own. 

There used to be two main brands of mustard, both yellow, costing under $1. In the 1980's, Grey Poupon came along and seized about half of the market share for mustards in the space of a year- a virtually unheard of marketing feat for a food product. They put it in a little glass jar rather than a plastic squeeze bottle, implied it was European even though it was made in California and instead of charging $1 for it, they charged $4. Turns out that even something as ordinary as sandwich mustard can become a vehicle for peoples 'aspirations'. 

This is metaphorical for basically every product sold on the 'high end'. The rub is, when it comes to actually plane that wood, swing that golf club, drink that wine, play that guitar or wear those shoes, the 'stratospheric' brands usually have a hard time making a practical case for themselves.

Here's Lie Nielsen's $85 hammer. 
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1471

I'm sure the people who buy it talk all about how it has such a special 'balance' and 'feels so good in their hands' and is able to strike so 'accurately', too. Nobody's making the case that we should pass a law forbidding them from buying it, but don't wonder why some people shake their heads and chuckle when they do.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I agree with your basic premise; however, here in the U. S. we do have the freedom to make choices. 

I believe that 90% of all tools are better than 90% of the people using them; regardless of what hobby or trade we're talking. You also move up the quality scale to a point of diminishing returns. You pay more money, but don't get that much better performance. But it's the consumer's choice. 

I drive a 22 year old small car; even though I love cars and driving, I don't want to spend for new or big. It is your choice to drive a Hummer if you wish; just stay out of my way as I blast past you.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Keith Mathewson said:


> Jim,
> 
> I have quite a few planes and use them on pretty much every job. If you have any questions you call get ahold of me.


Keith, I really do appreciate your offer my friend, I may take you up on it. I can see why you need all the planes and carving tools, when building tangent handrails, like you do, you use just about everything you have there. Do I see Two Cherries chisels there? Here is an article on a tangent handrail.
http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2011/11/25/traditional-tangent-handrail/


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I bet the King's County hammer from TFWW hammers better than your Lie Nielsen. It costs more. 

Compairing high end and low end hammers and high end and low end planes is apples to oranges. Having used Groz, Woodriver, Stanley, and Veritas, I can say with confidence that the Veritas works best. It has a higher level of fit and finish and useability. In fact I'm sold on Veritas completely. I use the Stanley and WR but got ridd of the Groz's. There's a lot more to a plane than a hammer. I also hear a lot that the plane is just a jig to hold the blade. Maybe, but not all jigs are equal. That's my opinion. I agree with your setiment that the American consumer is prone to fads.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I don't personally own any LN planes... But I found this very entertaining when I received the link a while ago.

http://vimeo.com/35420975

EDIT
IT HAD BEEN A WHILE AND I FORGOT THERE WERE A FEW CHOICE WORDS TOWARDS THE END. 

***NOT APPROPRIATE FOR CHILDREN, THOSE WITH VIRGIN EARS OR THOSE WHO ENJOY FEMININE COCKTAILS... OR WINE*** 

:laughing:


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## Tools (May 30, 2012)

Wrangler said:


> I agree with your basic premise; however, here in the U. S. we do have the freedom to make choices.
> 
> I believe that 90% of all tools are better than 90% of the people using them; regardless of what hobby or trade we're talking. You also move up the quality scale to a point of diminishing returns. You pay more money, but don't get that much better performance. But it's the consumer's choice.
> 
> I drive a 22 year old small car; even though I love cars and driving, I don't want to spend for new or big. It is your choice to drive a Hummer if you wish; just stay out of my way as I blast past you.


We do have the freedom to make choices (and I agree with everything else you said, as far as worker skill levels very rarely exceeding tool quality levels and driving inexpensive cars)

Still, just because we have the freedom to make choices doesn't mean that some choices aren't stupid (at worst) or silly (at best). Head over to a pawnbrokers shop some time, his place is full of goods that once belonged to people making irrational financial choices.

It's kind of like opinions. 
We all have the right to have an opinion, but our right to an opinion doesn't insulate any given opinion from the precepts of reason that govern everything else. When it comes to people making excuses to justify absurd consumer behaviors, it's not the 'opinion' aspect that some folks take issue with, as much as it is the contorted and elaborately nuanced 'reasons' they employ, which don't withstand much logical scrutiny.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Wait a second, Grey Poupon isn't any ordinary yellow mustard!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

OK boys and girls...lets get back to the OP's dilemma. 

Jim...I suggest you go to HD or Lowes, and buy a 7" block plane, could be a Stanley or a Buck Brothers...one like this, it doesn't really matter. Take that block plane and use it. See what the adjustments do. Practice with it on different woods. Get to know how to handle it. You can read all you want, and that's good for information on planes and which does what, but nothing can replace hands on.

You might think an inexpensive plane like the one mentioned won't get used much. Well, mine does. It's great for some quickie stuff when you have a free hand.

Does the iron keep an edge? Well, I don't wait for it to get dull. Knives, chisels and irons that shave you aren't really that sharp. Take a piece of paper and hold it vertically and just pass the edge down and it should slice like a razor blade.










 







.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> OK boys and girls...lets get back to the OP's dilemma.
> 
> 
> .


+1 Thanks C-Man


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Tools said:


> I'd suggest before buying planes, first get a copy of "The Handplane Book". It's fantastic and covers pretty much all the ground you'll need from many different angles.
> 
> Unless you get caught up in 'plane collecting' or associated hording behaviors, you can get an array of fantastic working planes for very little cost, if you're willing to do a bit of work and sidestep the cork-sniffing nonsense associated with brand prestige.


I got the Stanley #4,5, and 6 for $65. I figured even if they were junk they'd make a nice wall piece.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Cman, I will do just that. I am one step ahead already as I know how to sharpen pretty fair. I will practice and do a lot more reading. I got a question already, the small block plane in your link is a low angle planer, what is the advantage of the low angle over the high angle plane or is there an advantage?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

jiju1943 said:


> Thanks Cman, I will do just that. I am one step ahead already as I know how to sharpen pretty fair. I will practice and do a lot more reading. I got a question already, the small block plane in your link is a low angle planer, what is the advantage of the low angle over the high angle plane or is there an advantage?


The lower angle is a less of an aggressive angle (not as steep). It lays flatter and works better on end grain. It's a good plane to have, and so would be an ordinary block plane.








 







.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Hammer1 said:


> Wait a second, Grey Poupon isn't any ordinary yellow mustard!


+1 I'm a huge mustard fan and to compare these two is just wrong! And if Grey Poupon had a cork I'd probably smell it...because it would be odd for mustard to have a cork. 



cabinetman said:


> Jim...I suggest you go to HD or Lowes, and buy a 7" block plane, could be a Stanley or a Buck Brothers...one like this, it doesn't really matter.


I have one of these Stanleys. One of the first hand tools I bought when moving into our house. You will at least need to lap the sole since they tend to be pretty bad. Start aggressive, like with 100 grit to get it flat. Then progress up to 220, or more if you are inclined.


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

Without wanting to offend those who have advocated starting with a very inexpensive plane, I would suggest at least a middle of the price or a higher price plane to start. If you don't know how a well tuned plane should work how will you know what to do with a cheap plane? Jim if you want to start with a couple of cheap users I'll send you these 3 for free, just pay the cost of shipping.

Here are a couple of cheap planes which I've found to work very well.


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

Here are a couple of pics which most finish carpenters might want to consider having onsite


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

And here are some planes I use for making handrails and fittings.


http://www.planemaker.com/products.html
The hollows & rounds are certainly more expensive than a hobbyist can justify, let the bashing begin...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Keith, I've been admiring the collection of planes thus far. Very nice especially being it appears you are a user as rather than a collector.

Very nice looking set of hollows and rounds, obviously new, who's the maker?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Keith Mathewson said:


> Without wanting to offend those who have advocated starting with a very inexpensive plane, I would suggest at least a middle of the price or a higher price plane to start. If you don't know how a well tuned plane should work how will you know what to do with a cheap plane? Jim if you want to start with a couple of cheap users I'll send you these 3 for free, just pay the cost of shipping.
> 
> Here are a couple of cheap planes which I've found to work very well.


My stars, Keith, I have never seen a lot of those planes before they are beautiful. You weren't kidding about being expensive, those in your link are way beyond my budget. I am sending you a PM Keith, I can't thank you enough for your offer.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I feel kinda dumb now being I actually clicked the link... Very nice set of hollows and rounds but there are certainly more cost effective options out there!


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

That's what I thought when I first decided to get a set of hollows & rounds, and the reason I have so many of them. The first set I bought on ebay was a few hundred dollars. They looked good in the pics and a fair number were in reasonable shape but they just didn't cut well so after scouring ebay for over a year I found what I thought was a good set from england. Again most were in reasonable shape, some warped, some abused but they weren't quite usable. I bought books and dvd's on planes but after talking to Larry Williams about re-grinding my irons, something he doesn't do by the way, I learned that the old plane bodies shrink a bit over the decades. So not wanting to spend the money for new I tried to grind my own irons. After destroying a few I paid a machine shop to re-grind all the irons. $500-$600 later they cut reasonably well by if you weren't really careful they would leave large grooves in the material which would either destroy the piece or require a lot of sanding. When I finally got the set from C & W the difference in the way they worked made me truly regret not buying quality from the start.

Here is pic of a mantel made with molding planes


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> The lower angle is a less of an aggressive angle (not as steep). It lays flatter and works better on end grain. It's a good plane to have, and so would be an ordinary block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well so much for a block plane, I do have one but it is junk to start off with and then it also is cracked. It has a number 110 and no name on it, there isn't any adjustment wheel on it. I also found a spoke shave or maybe it is a scrapper, Stanley #80 out in the shop.

I have watched how they set up a plane on the educational channel and I still don't know how far back to set the frog from the opening.

I do have a #4 and I am embarrassed to say the blade was in backwards, I know nothing of a plane but I really do want to learn. I did turn the blade around and made a couple of passes over the end grain of a piece of Walnut that was laying there and believe it or not it cut fairly well, I can only imagine how a well tuned very sharp plane would cut. I plan to get some books and read all I can find, I am excited about learning to use a plane.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Keith Mathewson said:


> That's what I thought when I first decided to get a set of hollows & rounds, and the reason I have so many of them. The first set I bought on ebay was a few hundred dollars. They looked good in the pics and a fair number were in reasonable shape but they just didn't cut well so after scouring ebay for over a year I found what I thought was a good set from england. Again most were in reasonable shape, some warped, some abused but they weren't quite usable. I bought books and dvd's on planes but after talking to Larry Williams about re-grinding my irons, something he doesn't do by the way, I learned that the old plane bodies shrink a bit over the decades. So not wanting to spend the money for new I tried to grind my own irons. After destroying a few I paid a machine shop to re-grind all the irons. $500-$600 later they cut reasonably well by if you weren't really careful they would leave large grooves in the material which would either destroy the piece or require a lot of sanding. When I finally got the set from C & W the difference in the way they worked made me truly regret not buying quality from the start.
> 
> Here is pic of a mantel made with molding planes


I would love to have been there and watched you make the trim on that mantel.


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## Evilfrog (Aug 2, 2011)

jiju1943 said:


> I do have a #4 and I am embarrassed to say the blade was in backwards, I know nothing of a plane but I really do want to learn. I did turn the blade around and made a couple of passes over the end grain of a piece of Walnut that was laying there and believe it or not it cut fairly well, I can only imagine how a well tuned very sharp plane would cut. I plan to get some books and read all I can find, I am excited about learning to use a plane.


I bought a mid 90's stanley #4, and my uncle gave me his stanley #6. (he thinks it's 70's. I dunno know enough about them to date, but the cap does have the kidney shaped screw hole.)

Both of them had the blades in upside down. You aren't the only one who has had a plane with the blade in upside down. So don't feel bad about it. People learn by making mistakes.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Keith Mathewson said:


> And here are some planes I use for making handrails and fittings.
> 
> http://www.planemaker.com/products.html
> The hollows & rounds are certainly more expensive than a hobbyist can justify, let the bashing begin...


From my wife..."Don't even think about it."


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

You set the frog back as far as you want depending on the shaving you're taking. Farther back for rough work and tightly forward for smoothing. Hand Tool Essentials is a really good book covering everything from sharpening to nomenclature to the awl of all things. Popular Woodworking book that is a compilation of several authors advise and it's very well illustrated. It also covers plane restoration and buying used. I highly recommend it for new hand tool users. It's a contant companion of mine.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Evilfrog, that makes me feel a little better. It is a shame to have been around all these great tools all my life and didn't pay them any attention until now. My dad and Granddad were carpenters, they used the old tools, I wish I had paid attention back then. When I started carpentry work back in the early 60s we had the old hand miter saw, that was one accurate saw. When the electric saws came out we bought one and the move away from the great old tools began, I really hate that now.

ACP. I looked inside that book online and you are right, that is a book to own for sure, I do appreciate that.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I have been talking to a fellow down in Georgia named Johnny Kleso. He is a really nice guy, and knows planes. He also taught classes on hand planes, I was hoping to be able to take a class from him but he isn't feeling up to having classes any more, has anyone heard of Johnny? He gave me two links that are really good to have.
http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/

http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/beplcu.html

He also gave me some advise, he said if I bought a new blade for the old planers I would really enjoy using the plane.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I am just blown away, Keith Mathewson sent me three really nice planes in the mail and they arrived today. I gave them a try and they are really easy to use. Keith knows how to sharpen a plane for sure, they cut through the wood effortlessly. If I had known planes could be this easy to use I would have put more effort into learning how to use them and how to sharpen them, here are the three he sent me.


Keith, I can't thank you enough, I am like a kid with a new toy, well three new toys. I am really looking forward to learning how to use these. I just sent you a PM. Thanks again.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Nice planes Jiju, and well done Keith! Looks like an excellent set!


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## autre (Jul 12, 2011)

Wow!

That's a score.


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## JQMack (Sep 24, 2011)

That's a great way to pay it forward. Amazing how much support there is here.

As for hand planes. Tuning one up was the first revelation. Sharpening one was the second. Then on to the Hock blades......

Just goes on from there......


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Keith sharpened the blades up very very sharp before he sent them to me and that is a big plus to me as I can see how they should be sharpened. I have a piece of dried Mesquite that a buddy gave me to put on my smoker, I test my carving knives by cutting across the end grain of some hard wood. I set the small plane and it cut across the end grain like it was nothing and left a glossy look which is a good indication of sharpness. 

With the tips and the planes Keith gave me I am on my way to discovering why so many love a good sharp plane.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

The Hand Plane Book by; Garrett Hack would be my first read. Well written and it's at the novice level.


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## Fishinbo (Jul 23, 2012)

Hand planes interest me as well. I love to see photos of hand planes found at flea markets and restored as brand new. I will be giving time to visit these links. Like you, I am trying to learn as much as I can.


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## splinter2 (Dec 5, 2009)

*Planes*

I went to a resale shop with the wife a few weeks ago, and Bought 2 older planes, No nothing about. Ran across your Post and have learned some I have 1 tore down and redoing it mainly just rust, and the Blade is dule, Kinda neat to use planes, I hope to add both to my workbench and use on projects. Thanks for the Sites.

Splinter2 :thumbsup:


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Just picked up the handplane book from the library today. After cleaning up a no 4 I have I'm going to try my hand at restoring a no 27 transition. When I get to that will def do some posting as I'd like to avoid putting a new sole on if possible but it's not in great shape. 

Can't wait to get through the book.


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## tkleff (Aug 3, 2012)

Hi All, 

I'm new here. I'm a new woodworker -- I've built about 4 projects, but a very rough job. Turns out, I really enjoy the process. 

I'm currently building a standing desk. The plans (here, on lowes, -- http://www.lowescreativeideas.com/idea-library/projects/standing_desk_0109.aspx). Well, part of the plans call for making a table top out of a series of boards glued together and held with biscuits. After talking with a buddy about how to do the biscuits -- he happened to mention that I'd need to "run it through the planer." 

Well, I gave him "that look." He said it again "the planer" (pause) (more of my look) "you have a planer, right?" Umm, no. 

So, that started my research into buying one (and my wife auditing my internet searches that I'm buying another tool (AGAIN)). And, the thinking/problem-solving began. Even if I did have a planer, I could only plane the individual boards, not the table top itself (it'll be, something like 24"x30"). So, I could plane it by hand. 

In another place, someone said, you don't want to learn how to do it by hand on an individual project. Actually, I do. I often learn that way -- I can be very methodical. I work with very cheap wood, and I'm happy to redo things when my method fails. Moreover, I believe it is tremendously beneficial to my learning curve to learn things that occur during real world builds; as opposed to practicing for what might occur. Because my experience is that practice in the "real world" of actually building a project, is nearly always more productive/insightful/efficient than trying to workout a theory -- e.g., a solution in search of an answer. 

Now, I've been looking like crazy for a used power bench planer that's a fantastic buy -- but haven't gotten lucky enough yet. While I may sand down the desktop -- it may be that I workout how to make the hand planes work. It'll be a learning experience either way. 

I hope to share my progress here. In the meanwhile, I will force myself to read/buy/collect/study about 3-10 books on woodworking hand tools, before I spend additional dollars. That said, I love the idea (posted above) about spending $25 bucks a HD or Lowes for an off the shelf plane -- if nothing else -- as a learning experience to see if you can just make it work. Sounds like a great idea to me. 

c.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I learned something new today about spoke shaves. I have a nice little #53 Stanley and sharpened the blade a little today and gave it a try, I love that little shaver, it is so smooth it is unreal. 

I also have what I thought was another spoke shave, I found out a #80 Stanley isn't a spoke shave at all, it is a cabinet scraper. I kept wondering how in the world the shavings would get out. I had the thing backwards, but now knowing it is a scraper, I was holding it backwards. I didn't sharpen the blade because I didn't know how it is supposed to be sharpened. I didn't flatten the sole because I don't know if it is supposed to be like that. I need to do a little research about it. The blade does have the little heart on it though.

I haven't had much time to work with the planes Keith Matthewson gave me yet but I sure want to a little later. I wish I had taken the time to learn about planes back when I was in business, they sure would have made life easier.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

J as you know now, not every tool that looks like a spoke shave is indeed a spoke shave. The 80 as you know now is scraper and the blade must be sharpened as a scraper but what a good tool.

There are also chair devils different things, try a No 66 also a scraper ( scratch stock) looks like a spoke shave but is not,also a very good tool Welcome to the slope J.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Billy De said:


> J as you know now, not every tool that looks like a spoke shave is indeed a spoke shave. The 80 as you know now is scraper and the blade must be sharpened as a scraper but what a good tool.
> 
> There are also chair devils different things, try a No 66 also a scraper ( scratch stock) looks like a spoke shave but is not,also a very good tool Welcome to the slope J.


Billy, do I sharpen the #80 blade like a regular card scraper or do I sharpen it like it is now, it has a bevel like a spoke shave or plane.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jiju1943 said:


> Billy, do I sharpen the #80 blade like a regular card scraper or do I sharpen it like it is now, it has a bevel like a spoke shave or plane.


Ehh??? Makes me wonder if it's the correct iron or if the previous owner was just a numpty... It should be burnished like any card scraper.

Pictures?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

firemedic said:


> Ehh??? Makes me wonder if it's the correct iron or if the previous owner was just a numpty... It should be burnished like any card scraper.
> 
> Pictures?


Tom I will try to remember to get some pictures up tomorrow.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

The #80 is sharpened on a bevel. The bevel is just slightly more than the angle the blade is held on by the tool. Essentially, the bevel makes the scraper blade edge parallel with the bottom of the tool with a little favor to the long point of the bevel. If the blade was sharpened square, the back edge of the scraper blade would ride on the work, not the front leading edge with the burnished curl. It wouldn't work unless you pulled the tool backwards which is not how the tool is used. 

Look at the thumb screw in the center, this faces the user. Your thumbs go on either side of the thumb screw and you push the tool away from you. The thumb screw puts a slight bend in the blade, the same way your fingers do with a plain card scraper. The more the bend, the coarser the cut. The bottom of the #80 should be flat and the blade's beveled edge should match the sole. You can set the blade by loosening all the screws, placing the sole on a piece of paper on a flat surface, then letting the blade touch the flat surface. The blade sticks out of the bottom of the #80 about the thickness of the paper. This, in conjunction with the bend the thumb screw puts on the blade, is how you adjust for fineness of cut.

The #80 is a bit coarse compared to a hand held card scraper. It can make quick work of roughly leveling the joints on a glued up panel, for example. It would be a bit too aggressive for leveling marquetry or inlay work. The angle of the blade is fixed and you don't have the finesse you want for more delicate and finished surface work.

Like all scrapers, they cut into summer wood much more easily than winter wood. The bend also makes them cut a slight radius in the surface. Scrapers are meant to be used on open grained hardwoods. They will only gouge softwoods and not shave a fine cut. Over using a card or tool held scraper can lead to an undulating surface, don't get carried away!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hammer1 said:


> The #80 is sharpened on a bevel. The bevel is just slightly more than the angle the blade is held on by the tool. Essentially, the bevel makes the scraper blade edge parallel with the bottom of the tool with a little favor to the long point of the bevel. If the blade was sharpened square, the back edge of the scraper blade would ride on the work, not the front leading edge with the burnished curl. It wouldn't work unless you pulled the tool backwards which is not how the tool is used.
> 
> Look at the thumb screw in the center, this faces the user. Your thumbs go on either side of the thumb screw and you push the tool away from you. The thumb screw puts a slight bend in the blade, the same way your fingers do with a plain card scraper. The more the bend, the coarser the cut. The bottom of the #80 should be flat and the blade's beveled edge should match the sole. You can set the blade by loosening all the screws, placing the sole on a piece of paper on a flat surface, then letting the blade touch the flat surface. The blade sticks out of the bottom of the #80 about the thickness of the paper. This, in conjunction with the bend the thumb screw puts on the blade, is how you adjust for fineness of cut.
> 
> ...


Thanks Hammer, I really appreciate you taking the time to tell us about the #80, I will copy and keep this in my file.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Hammer walk me through this; if the blade is prepared square the trailing edge is away from the work and not riding on it and the leading edge with its burnished curl is the cutting edge.
Now if there is a bevel on the blade where would the bevel go ? To the back for what purpose?


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## steamfab (Jun 22, 2012)

It is never too late to pursue what you really want! Brave of you to have taken the first step. You are lucky, the internet is a convenient source of information.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

J I can not really comment on Hammers method of Fettling the scraper blade (would have liked to hear more on it) I always square the blade up just like a regular card scraper before burnishing it.

As you can see in the pic it works and I`V never had the problems that Hammer describes.

There is also a pic of a NO 66 scratch stock.

Two spokeshaves flat face for external curves round face for internal curves and of course the No 80. Billy


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Billy, I have been looking on line and folks sharpen the blade on the #80 and others both ways, I guess it is all in what a person gets use to. I will try it both ways and see which works best for me. I really appreciate the input.


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## Keith Mathewson (Sep 23, 2010)

Hammer1 is the preferred way of sharpening and his other comments are spot on. For a finer finish use a 112.


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## MagGeorge (Jul 5, 2012)

Showcasing beautiful hand planes here.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Looks like I missed out on a #8 I found online a few days back. The man never called me and I didn't have his number. Oh well maybe a little later. 

I am reading everything I can about hand planes, this is really interesting and without some direction I don't know if a person would ever get it right. One thing I am trying to do in my shop is downsize as my shop is very small and so disorganized it is unreal. I have a Unisaw which takes up so much room it is really in the way but so far I haven't figured a way to do all the table saw will do with smaller or hand tools so that I can sell it.

I am at the age that I can not handle full sheets of plywood or heavy things anymore. I want to be able to go out in the shop and do things in a nice organized shop with as many hand tools as possible. Discovering how some of the hand planes work and how to tune them is great, I only wished I had taken advantage of some advice my grand dad had to give. 

I have a setup with horses that I can place a sheet of plywood onto without lifting and I had a couple of aluminum guides made for my circular saw which is dead on while ripping sheet goods. If I can figure a way to make very thin rips then maybe I can get rid of the big saw. I would really like to be as independent as possible from power tools but with my arms as they are I am locked into using some power tools.

As I read last night, even with power tools there is still a need for finish planes as most power tools are considered coarse tools. I am just rambling so I will shut up now.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I am still learning and have a question or two. Can a #5 be a scrub plane, a #7 or #8 a planer and a #3 or #4 be a smoother? Another question, where does the transitional plane come in or does it need too.

I made a sharpening jig this past week and it works great, I sharpened my #4 and it really cuts great, I still don't have it sharp enough to cut across end grain on red oak and leave a shiny trail but it does cut easy across end grain. Thanks to y'all I have the plane tuned almost where I think it should be, it does make paper thin curls with very little effort.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

I've got a related question that maybe can be answered at the same time as the above. When I cut across end grain (pine) my block plane screams like a banchee. Why?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

railaw said:


> I've got a related question that maybe can be answered at the same time as the above. When I cut across end grain (pine) my block plane screams like a banchee. Why?


Do you wax the foot on your's? That seemed to help a lot on mine.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

Jim, a couple of years ago I was in almost the same spot as you, except for the retired part. It started innocently for me. I've had a few block planes and a couple of #4s that I used for carpentry. The second motivator was my wife was always dragging me to antique shops and such, and I started looking at old tools and planes. I stated to research how to make the planes work a little better and get them restored. I never realized it was such a slippery slope. Take a look at my blog, http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/

I've restored something in the neighborhood of 300-400 planes in the last few years. I wonder sometime why I love doing it so m uch, but to take a piece of rust, and turn it into a working, nice looking piece of history is just so rewarding. I sell many duplicates, but at last count I had over 250, and that was several months ago.

I've branched off into Sargent plane now and I'm working on a complete set of type 11s. 

Feel free to bounce anything off of me. I don't consider myself to be any where's near an expert, but I've learned so much in the past few years. 

Here is a list of resource sites I use. You may find them helpful. http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24092


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

timetestedtools said:


> Jim, a couple of years ago I was in almost the same spot as you, except for the retired part. It started innocently for me. I've had a few block planes and a couple of #4s that I used for carpentry. The second motivator was my wife was always dragging me to antique shops and such, and I started looking at old tools and planes. I stated to research how to make the planes work a little better and get them restored. I never realized it was such a slippery slope. Take a look at my blog, http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/
> 
> I've restored something in the neighborhood of 300-400 planes in the last few years. I wonder sometime why I love doing it so m uch, but to take a piece of rust, and turn it into a working, nice looking piece of history is just so rewarding. I sell many duplicates, but at last count I had over 250, and that was several months ago.
> 
> ...


Good gravy, the bug bit you big time. I am trying to hold it down to just the planes I need and not collect, but I feel the urge creeping in, especially when I see a specialty plane. I think of all the years I have wasted not having planes. 

At first I started looking for planes online just in the area I live, now I look everywhere. I found a nest of them in the northwest but shipping would be too high from there. I appreciate your offer, I may just take you up on it.


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