# Jack Plane



## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi,

I am wondering if this is a good Jack Plane to get:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140812794939?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

I am looking for a solid inexpensive all-around plane for minimal use. Would blades be easy to get for this? Also what type/size blade would i need?(newbie to planing)

Thanks!


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I think you could get a jack for cheaper than $69 shipped off ebay. They are everywhere on there. I can't commnet on the useability of a V&B as I've never had one, but I will say good ones go all the time for $20.00 or less.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Great, thanks! Any brand you could recommend?


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

What about something like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Unu...482?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc950f3da

Again, could I get blades for this easily? Or each plane has a specific blade?


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## 65BAJA (May 27, 2012)

travisredington said:


> What about something like this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Unu...482?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc950f3da
> 
> Again, could I get blades for this easily? Or each plane has a specific blade?


Doesn't look like the throat is adjustable on that one. I'd keep looking.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

65BAJA said:


> Doesn't look like the throat is adjustable on that one. I'd keep looking.


+1 for adjustable throat. Helps to fine tune the performance.

If the throat does not adjust it is harder to control the thickness of the shavings - it is not only the depth of the blade.

As for blade width, if a #5 follows the Stanley #5, the blade will be 2in.

Stanley planes have a variety of blade widths, but the common Stanley planes, #3, #4, #5, etc. will have blade widths which are available from after market suppliers like Ron Hock or Pinnacle.

I have purchased Ron Hock blades and highly recommend them. Not cheap, but the Ron Hock blade made a big improvement to my Record #5 plane.

Ron Hock also does custom blades. I have no idea how much extra a custom blade would cost.

http://www.hocktools.com


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

travisredington said:


> What about something like this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Unu...482?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc950f3da
> 
> Again, could I get blades for this easily? Or each plane has a specific blade?


If you look close that plane is cracked.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks for the replies!

This one has an adjustable throat, right?(thats what the knob is on the back?)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-USED-ST...052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc979fa14

and this one:

www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Craftsman-...851?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f19b823db


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

travisredington said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> This one has an adjustable throat, right?(thats what the knob is on the back?)
> 
> ...


This one looks decent for $30.

What you call the knob at the back is the adjustment for what is called the "frog" (I did not make up the term). You are correct that the frog being adjusted in or out changes the space between the front of the blade and the sole, aka the mouth.

FYI this plane has a corrugated sole. This was marketed at the time as a "performance" feature. Stanley were claiming this corrugation would minimize the friction of the sole while being pushed across a board.

I think many opinions on how well, or if this made any difference.

I would not let the corrugated sole put you off the plane.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks! Although I think i missed that one.

So if the frog is adjustable, that means the throat is adjustable?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

travisredington said:


> Great, thanks! Any brand you could recommend?


Hare are a few names....Old Record, old Stanley Bailey, Stanley Bedrock, old Millers Falls, Union, Sargent VBM, Winchester, Keen Kutter. 

*Look for something like this*:








or 









*instead of*:








or 









Some of the indicators of older and high quality vs newer and/or cheaper are little things like a solid cast "Y-adjuster" vs stamped metal, painted or plastic handles vs rosewood/nice hardwood, embossing vs stickers, a throat adjustment screw vs not having one, etc.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Great, thanks!!

Um, what about a vintage Craftsman 14" - BL for $35. Can't seem to post the link. Here is the blurb from ebay:

'Up for auction is a Vintage Craftsman 14 inch "Jack Plane" Plane marked BL on one side. Good Condition with some very minor surface rust. Japanning is 95% plus. There appears to be new coat of varnish on the wood especially the tote. Please see close up last photo. Other than this condition is excellent. Could be stripped and re-varnished to make it as good as new. It is approximately 14” long. Do not know if there were model numbers in addition to the BL. From internet search the BL models were made in the 40's into the 50's.'

Pics look good


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The CMan plane looks to be in good shape, and is likely made by Millers Falls or Sargent. It's likely a very good plane, but due to the brand name, it doesn't command as much money.....after s/h, that one's pretty expensive IMHO.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Hmm, i am willing to pay up to $40(with shipping), you think i can get good quality cheaper than that?

From ebay or is there somewhere else? tried Craigslist, one for $50


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## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

Start hitting flea markets on the weekends. You can find plenty of No5's in all sorts of shape, depending on how much work you want to do to restore it. Some might be ready to go with just a blade sharpening. Antique stores are also a good place to look, just don't pay too much. Ebay/CL is not the only place to look.

Here is one tale of a $2 plane I scored at a flea market. With minimal work, it has turned into a nice 100 year old user plane. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/2-bailey-no5-score-plus-evapo-rust-props-40222/

Also here is a nice WWII era or before No4 I got for $12 at a flea market. It is in nice shape.









Good luck


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

travisredington said:


> Hmm, i am willing to pay up to $40(with shipping), you think i can get good quality cheaper than that?
> 
> From ebay or is there somewhere else? tried Craigslist, one for $50


Unless you are in a hurry, I wouldn't pay $40. I've gotten most of my planes off Ebay (not a lot of flea markets around here) and the most I've paid is $11 ($21 including shipping) for a Stanley Bailey #4. I've paid less than that for a 60 1/2 and a #5. Keep watching and within a week or two you're likely to find one for under $20.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Cool, thanks! I am not in too much of a hurry so i can see what i find. 

If i do find an old one and it needs sharpening, is there any other way to do that besides investing the 100 or so in the water sharpening stones?


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## 65BAJA (May 27, 2012)

travisredington said:


> Cool, thanks! I am not in too much of a hurry so i can see what i find.
> 
> If i do find an old one and it needs sharpening, is there any other way to do that besides investing the 100 or so in the water sharpening stones?


Google "scrary sharp method"


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Awesome, thanks!


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Hmm, this seems like a good method except for the upfront cost of the honing guide ($70). How often do you sharpen a plane blade (I will be using it minimally for small projects)? You definitely need the guide, right?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

travisredington said:


> Hmm, this seems like a good method except for the upfront cost of the honing guide ($70). How often do you sharpen a plane blade (I will be using it minimally for small projects)? You definitely need the guide, right?


The guide need not be that expensive:
Robert Larson 800-1800 Honing Guide:Amazon:Home Improvement

Or free hand it.


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## BIP (Dec 21, 2009)

Paul W Gillespie said:


> Also here is a nice WWII era or before No4 I got for $12 at a flea market. It is in nice shape.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.....that diagonal knurling on the depth adjustment makes it a Type 18 post war (1946-47) plane.


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## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

You got me BIP. It is a type 18. I had correctly typed it in this thread here , but forgot and didn't feel like looking it up again so I guessed. I was close. I have been acquiring a few planes lately and it is getting tough to keep track. Good catch on your part and good purchase on mine. It is one of my better condition planes, except for the paint splatters.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

The question has been asked on this thread "is a jig necessary to fettle sharp edge tools ?" this little question could start a war.

I`m not going to try and start it,any thing I say here is just my honest opinion and that's all it is.Believe me some people can get quite macho about it.The thing is 99% of people that grind and hone by hand have learnt it from someone else most guys starting this as a hobby don't have a journeyman standing along side of them to show just how to get it right and there is a big difference between that and watching someone do it on the net.

I`d have no problem recommending a new guy buy a jig and study the scary sharp method it will show them just what sharp really is, as has been advised in other posts on this thread.

My advice would be to keep your costs down there are a lot of people out there try to sell top of the range tool to new guy that are just totally not necessary OK its your money don't let any one tell you what to do with it.

You can go and buy a top of the range plane that will work right out of the box but sooner or later your going to have to hone it and then grind it.

I`m not trying to preach just to help, a link was made on another thread here and I think it was so good I hope nobody minds if I link it again. 


http://www.popularwoodworking.com/t...start-woodworking?et_mid=572787&rid=233353904


Enjoy your hobby Billy :thumbsup:


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks guys!

I think I will try for a cheaper plane and sharpen free hand for now. The use i am planning is minimal and on small scale projects, so i think it does not have to be super perfect

If i ever start using more frequently i will invest in the guide.

How does this look:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...715?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc9a2d5b3


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

I use no 4's and 5's pretty frequently but I have a little fleet of mini planes - tiny little things which are invaluable. They help get glue up, tune drawers and corners and lots of other little things which need done. I highly recommend them. 

Typically they are stanley 101 but a number of other companies made their own variations. 

You can pick these up super cheap. Once restored and sharpened, you'd be surprised how useful they are. 

Here's an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-No-...445?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589549f66d

You can find these for less tho.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

travisredington said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> I think I will try for a cheaper plane and sharpen free hand for now. The use i am planning is minimal and on small scale projects, so i think it does not have to be super perfect
> 
> ...


I didn't notice a frog adjuster screw, which is nice to have, but it looks to be in good shape, and the price seems reasonable.


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## TheCosmo (Aug 12, 2012)

travisredington said:


> Hmm, this seems like a good method except for the upfront cost of the honing guide ($70). How often do you sharpen a plane blade (I will be using it minimally for small projects)? You definitely need the guide, right?


No, you DO NOT need the guide, but and this is a big but, it takes a lot of practise to be able to hone a blade, by hand, with any consistency.
I purchased a Verritas Mk 2 and I am very happy with it. It's a bit expensive but I get great results. There are cheaper ones out there and many of them do a great job. Check the woodworking mag sites as I know one of them recently had a review of sharpening jigs. Also check out Ron Hocks sharpening site.
How often? Hard to tell. If you get the blade sharpened well and keep it oiled it should stay sharp for quite some time if only used lightly. Just remember that corrosion will dull the edge over time on it's own.


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## TheCosmo (Aug 12, 2012)

*Purchasing used planes*

Prices of used planes seem to be on the up-swing. At flea markets I, for the most part, see only junk. The planes that are in good shape and have a good name are not cheap anymore. A Stanley Bedrock #4 in restorable shape can easely run $100 to $300. I just saw a Bedrock #7 joiner on EBay go for $600. Stanley Bailey planes are not as robust as the Bedrock but are a whole lot cheaper and arn't bad for light use. Also Millers Falls and Keen-Cutter planes are pretty decent. Take the time lap the sole and be sure to make sure the side are square with the sole.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

> I didn't notice a frog adjuster screw, which is nice to have, but it looks to be in good shape, and the price seems reasonable.


What does that look like? Would it make it significantly easier for a noobie?

Thanks!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

travisredington said:


> What does that look like? Would it make it significantly easier for a noobie?
> 
> Thanks!


That aside I'd pass on it. JoeBailey will likely know for certain but I believe that's a Dunlop made Craftsman. Certainly low, if even on, the spectrum of planes worth owning. 

Most bench planes have a means of adjusting the frog. Those with a rear frog adjustment screw is a bit easier to set because it allows you to adjust the frog with the iron in place.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Those with a rear frog adjustment screw is a bit easier to set because it allows you to adjust the frog with the iron in place.[/QUOTE

Hmmm Not quite right Tom Think about it.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Billy De said:


> Those with a rear frog adjustment screw is a bit easier to set because it allows you to adjust the frog with the iron in place.
> 
> Hmmm Not quite right Tom Think about it.


]

Absolutely correct... Think about it. I'll explain once you mill it over a bit. :smile:


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

OK good fun Tom lets talk, to adjust the frog with the frog adjuster you must remove the plane iron release the two cheese head bolts and then adjust.

The only system that allows you to leave the Iron in place while adjusting the frog is the bed rock system.

While the top class planes IE Veritas Lee, neilson and Clifton copy this system a normal bench plane does not have that possibility, in fact if my memory serves me, before the bed rock, planes did not have the adjusting screw at all.

I stand to be corrected Billy


.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

First things first, I really hope you know I wasn't attempted to be facetious because looking back I notice it could have been taken that way.

You are correct on Bed Rock models to be the first (that I'm aware of) featuring the adjustment screw and the others soon followed.

You can in fact adjust the frog with the iron in place on the Bailey planes. Yes, the screws must be loosened and the iron reinstalled prior to doing so, so I know it's splitting hairs. This is still a useful practice as it allows you to assemble the plane and set the frog the first time around. 

Other than repeatability that's really the sole purpose of the adjusting screw. It saves from having to guess quite so much. If your like me and a bit annal retentive about adjusting the frog then it's not a lot of help... On the other hand it's pretty useful to someone new to the world of bench planes. 

The screws only need not be tight to adjust the frog with the adjustment screw.

:smile: we're both right I supose.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Tom no problem its just a discussion you know different folks different strokes.

I was all ways taught to fasten that frog down because every thing hangs on it and if not the chances of chatter are increased considerable.

I don't own one of the top range planes but I do own a bedrock given to me many years ago by an old guy that was retiring from the game.

When you move the frog forward the set on the iron changes, minute, yes but then what is the advantage because you have to reset the iron.

Just an interesting point:thumbsup: Billy


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh yeah! I'm not saying the frog doesn't need to be tight to use!!! Talk about a chattering mess!

It has to be tightened down after setting the frog... which means removing the iron, tightening then reseating the iron. I should have clarified.

Generally I hold the iron to the frog, adjust the screw then tighten the frog. The screw keeps the frog's place until it's tightened 

That this is the ONLY real value in the screw :smile:


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Tom just to clarify in post No36 I`m talking about what is the advantage in the bedrock?

Very little IMHO and about the same advantage in the top of the range planes. 

Marketing, dare I say it?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

While I agree there's little if any real performance difference between the BR and Bailey I think there are other factors in play. 

Collect-ability I think plays a large role in the debate. Less "Baileys" than "Stanleys" made means Bailey are a bit more collectable... Less BRs made than Baileys means they are more collectable still. And of coarse, if it cost more it's better.

I'm hesitant to agree with you on the high-end planes having any added value. If you compare a LN 4-1/2 to a Bailey 4-1/2 you'll find a couple things that certainly set it apart. 

Better casting/finishing for tighter fitting parts meaning less chatter without the excessive work of tuning. 

Heavier weight from the thicker casting as well as bronze parts and a lower center of gravity gives it more inertia (is that the correct term) for smoother working.

The thicker iron certainly plays a big part too to added performance. 

So these things can, to a certain degree, be overcome on a Bailey but when you consider added time plus expense for upgrades it's pretty much a wash. 

If you are a Stanley fan such as myself it's worth it but in an end user perspective, is it really?

I think we'll have to close this side conversation, Billy. We've hijacked the OP's thread  sorry guys! We should continue in a new thread or PM if you like...?


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Yes quit correct apologies to the OP.


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Hey,

I just bought this one for $31 with shipping. How does this look:




























Here is the description:

'Stanley No. 5

Cast marked: No 5 (rear) Made in USA front

Blade holder marked: Stanley 

Condition:

light surface rust

Plane does have a frog screw below the D.O.C. Knob'

Sounded good to me, so just got it.

Would be cool for some other opinions though

Thanks!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Looks fine to me. It should clean up well and be a good user!


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## trowley (Feb 4, 2011)

Cool, thanks!


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## TheCosmo (Aug 12, 2012)

*Plane restoration*

Google "hand plane restoration". Look for rust removal.
If you have a battery charger you can get rid of the rust overnight by electrolysis and that sure beats doing it by hand.

Make sure you lap the sole. 
I first did lapping by using a lapping plate and lapping compound. That method is really messy and you need to clean the lapping plate every time you move to a finer grit. 
The method I use now is sandpaper on a piece of plate glass. I start with 120 then 220, 400 and finally 600. I do this dry and this has worked quite well for me.


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