# Airless spayer or HVLP for cabinets



## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm trying to achieve a factory type finish. I will be using a conversion varnish (hopefully) as the top coat. Will an airless handheld Graco work, or should I go with an HVLP sprayer?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I've used both to spray lacquer......and the graco airless (although not a handheld) was far superior.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've never used the handheld Graco airless but I wouldn't spray cabinets with either. It's too difficult to spray inside of the cabinet creating orange peal and you need to turn the sprayer in any direction. The conventional airless would be the route to go however it takes a lot of practice to master. It puts out so much volume it's real easy to get runs in the finish. I prefer to use a siphon gun which is connected with hoses to a pressure pot. It generates a more controllable volume.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

The problem with an airless aprayer and conversion varnish is the dry film thickness. If you exceed 4-5 mils (depends on mfg) the finish will crack. It would be difficult with an airless not to exceed that limit IMO. Also I sincerly hope you are doing this work in a proper spray booth as the formaldehyde in CV is really nasty when spraying.


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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

I only have a small oilless compressor right now. I was going to upgrade, but I don't have the room for a large 80 gallon air compressor. I was thinking about going with a gas powered air compressor, as they put out high scfm. I think some of those suction pot/canister type guns can be used with lower scfm. I could buy a mid-range compressor. All of the HVLP guns require a lot of air.


I have one of these right now.

Amazon.com: Wagner 518080 Control Spray Max HVLP Sprayer: Home Improvement


The wagoner would be my cheapest route, since I wouldn't have to purchase anything. The airless handheld would be the next most cost effective system. The air compressor with HVLP guns will be the most expensive.


As far as an airbooth goes, I was going to make a make shift air booth. I only need to spray a back panel for the cabinets and some hutch molding. The shed I am planning on using has two windows adjacent from one another. I was planning on having a fan on one side and filters on the other. The problem is that I will not be able to clear the entire room, so it may get over spray on things. What about spraying it outside? Would there be issues? If there are too many issues, I may switch to a laquer topcoat.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

nolo said:


> I only have a small oilless compressor right now. I was going to upgrade, but I don't have the room for a large 80 gallon air compressor. I was thinking about going with a gas powered air compressor, as they put out high scfm. I think some of those suction pot/canister type guns can be used with lower scfm. I could buy a mid-range compressor. All of the HVLP guns require a lot of air.
> 
> 
> I have one of these right now.
> ...


The Wagner you have will do a nice job. It takes some testing with HVLP to get just enough finish down. If you use a lot of light it will help to see how wet your applications are. If you try a waterbase polyurethane, it dries almost as fast as lacquer but not as toxic. You could do spraying outside, but try to create a wind block. Of course, gotta watch out for the little critters landing on the work.








 








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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nolo said:


> I only have a small oilless compressor right now. I was going to upgrade, but I don't have the room for a large 80 gallon air compressor. I was thinking about going with a gas powered air compressor, as they put out high scfm. I think some of those suction pot/canister type guns can be used with lower scfm. I could buy a mid-range compressor. All of the HVLP guns require a lot of air.
> 
> 
> I have one of these right now.
> ...


I have a 80 gallon compressor however I probably finish as many cabinets with a small portable 1 hp. air compressor than the big one as I finish a lot of cabinets inside a customers house. The HVLP sprayers do use a lot of air but a siphon sprayer doesn't and using one in conjunction with the pressure pot uses even less air. You can usually buy a small portable compressor for about a hundred bucks on craigslist and Harbor Freight sells siphon sprayers that work well you can get for about 20 bucks with a coupon. Spraying the conversion varnish outdoors would be alright but you would need to pick a day when the wind wasn't blowing. A few years ago a storm destroyed my shop and I had to move my woodworking equipment into my finishing shop so the finishing work had to go outdoors so 90% of what I finish is done outdoors. Sometimes I get a little dust in the finish or a bug but that is easy to fix. 

A conversion varnish is a better more durable finish however lacquer is easier to work with. If you do change to lacquer I would recommend pre-catalyzed lacquer. It is more water resistant and doesn't yellow like the more common nitrocellulose lacquers. 

You have to be real careful with fans around solvent coatings. Keep in mind that the electric motor on a fan creates a spark inside which can ignite it. Filtering the air is good but the solvents will go through the filters. If you are going to jury-rig a spray booth fan I would recommend using a furnace blower which has the motor on top of the unit instead of in the center. Place the fan where the motor can be in a space free of solvents and duct the air from the spray booth to the fan itself.


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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> I have a 80 gallon compressor however I probably finish as many cabinets with a small portable 1 hp. air compressor than the big one as I finish a lot of cabinets inside a customers house. The HVLP sprayers do use a lot of air but a siphon sprayer doesn't and using one in conjunction with the pressure pot uses even less air. You can usually buy a small portable compressor for about a hundred bucks on craigslist and Harbor Freight sells siphon sprayers that work well you can get for about 20 bucks with a coupon. Spraying the conversion varnish outdoors would be alright but you would need to pick a day when the wind wasn't blowing. A few years ago a storm destroyed my shop and I had to move my woodworking equipment into my finishing shop so the finishing work had to go outdoors so 90% of what I finish is done outdoors. Sometimes I get a little dust in the finish or a bug but that is easy to fix.
> 
> A conversion varnish is a better more durable finish however lacquer is easier to work with. If you do change to lacquer I would recommend pre-catalyzed lacquer. It is more water resistant and doesn't yellow like the more common nitrocellulose lacquers.
> 
> You have to be real careful with fans around solvent coatings. Keep in mind that the electric motor on a fan creates a spark inside which can ignite it. Filtering the air is good but the solvents will go through the filters. If you are going to jury-rig a spray booth fan I would recommend using a furnace blower which has the motor on top of the unit instead of in the center. Place the fan where the motor can be in a space free of solvents and duct the air from the spray booth to the fan itself.


Steve
What cfm is your small compressor? I have a small bostich, but I was told the scfm is too low, so I couldn't spray very long. I may have to buy the harbor freight version to try it out.

This one would probably work although it is for automotive. It is 1.5cfm and 50psi

http://www.harborfreight.com/detail-spray-gun-91011.html


The ones designed for houses are rated at 10cfm.


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## Tom King (Nov 22, 2013)

I have a big airless, a handheld battery powered airless, air assisted airless, and HVLP. No way will the quality of finish with any of the airless be as good as the HVLP. The air assisted will, but for less money than the entry fee for those, HVLP is the way to go. 

I even have that Wagner airless, but all I use it for is spraying oil based primer when I don't want to put it in a more expensive gun when we are on a jobsite where it's inconvenient to clean one. It might do okay, but I would much prefer something a bit better for final finish coat.


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## kkalin78 (Dec 20, 2012)

I agree that airless would not give same quality as HVLP. I have been using Wagner Control spray for a little bit over two years. It needs some practice and it will give a good result even with latex paint. I had only one issue with it. It is not suitable for really fine job. It has 2mm tip and cannot gives absolute smooth finish and it's hard to work on small details. For same reason it produces a litte bit overspray and bounce back. Now I have Earlex 5500 for this type of job and I still keep Wagner.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nolo said:


> Steve
> What cfm is your small compressor? I have a small bostich, but I was told the scfm is too low, so I couldn't spray very long. I may have to buy the harbor freight version to try it out.
> 
> This one would probably work although it is for automotive. It is 1.5cfm and 50psi
> ...


The cfm on my small compressor is 4 cfm at 90 psi. The compressor runs pretty continious when I'm spraying a kitchen and in hot weather I sometimes stop from time to time to let it cool but I have never had to stop for lack of air. It would be a savings on air consumption if you would take the doors and drawers off and spray them seperate. It's well worth the trouble anyway not to have the doors in the way spraying a cabinet. 


As far as sprayers, I use a different model harbor freight sprayer so I'm not familar with that specific model. The one I use is #97855


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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

I'll pick up one of those sprayers and see how it does.


What type of product should I use for the primer, base, and glaze? I'm planning on using all of sherwin williams products.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nolo said:


> I'll pick up one of those sprayers and see how it does.
> 
> 
> What type of product should I use for the primer, base, and glaze? I'm planning on using all of sherwin williams products.


Can you let us know what you want the finished product to look like. Primer, base and glaze sounds like antiquing or a faux finish.


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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> Can you let us know what you want the finished product to look like. Primer, base and glaze sounds like antiquing or a faux finish.




It is a vintage finish.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Assuming you have the means to spray, I would prime the cabinets with Bushwacker white lacquer primer. Then topcoat with Proclassic enamel. Sherwin Williams has recently changed brands of glaze they sell and I've forgotten the product name of the new glaze. Both glazes work the same anyway so the name doesn't really matter. When I do a glaze like that I thin it with mineral spirits so there is more open time and spray it on and wipe it off with a rag. The glaze pretty much just sticks in the crevices so more than 90% of it wipes off the rest of it. It does leave a slight trace so wipe with the grain so you don't make blotchy spots.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I wouldn't wipe off with a rag, but rather apply just enough, and use a dry natural bristle brush to feather out what would be hard lines.








 







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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

I've heard of people refer to a finish schedule for stained cabinets. Would they have a finish schedule for a painted cabinet? If so, would this be beneficial to have? What would it show?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nolo said:


> I've heard of people refer to a finish schedule for stained cabinets. Would they have a finish schedule for a painted cabinet? If so, would this be beneficial to have? What would it show?


A finish schedule is just a list of steps in correct order to complete the finish they want. With the finish you have planned it would be:

1. Putty and sand the wood through 180 grit. 
2. Prime and level the wood so that the cabinets are smooth to topcoat. 
3. Topcoat with the base color, two coats. 
4. Apply the glaze coat. 
5. (Optional) Apply a non-yellowing clearcoat to seal the glaze.
6. Can of beer, put your feet up and admire the job you did. 

The schedule didn't list all the sanding between coats or the bad spots in the wood you didn't know were there until you started painting white. There is always additional repairs and touch up along the way. It's just easier to fix while you are in the primer stage. Just keep in mind if a spot doesn't look quite right it will look much worse with the topcoat on it so go for perfection.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

nolo said:


> I only have a small oilless compressor right now. I was going to upgrade, but I don't have the room for a large 80 gallon air compressor. I was thinking about going with a gas powered air compressor, as they put out high scfm. I think some of those suction pot/canister type guns can be used with lower scfm. I could buy a mid-range compressor. All of the HVLP guns require a lot of air.
> 
> I have one of these right now.
> 
> ...


I found a HVLP gun that works well off my small Emglo compressor. When Spraying lacquer you use a small tip and in your application so you shouldn't have a problem.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Nolo

I would not recommend water based finish. Your learning curve on spray finishes will be all you want to tackle to get started. Get a gun and learn how to set it up for spraying. Practice on cardboard. Go on line and get educated before you start.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

As far as a spray booth goes. If you can exhaust the fumes out a door or window. Set up a couple of fans and get a cross vent going. Spray only a few feet away from the fans and it will work fine. Get a respirator.

A

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Go with Pre cat lacquer. Dries so fast most overspray is dust on the floor. Easy to use and thin. 

I have two systems. One is an Earlex 5500. It does an okay job but my conversion gun is better for a finer finish. The Earlex will spray anything and probably shines when spraying house paint. I have sprayed woodworking with it but you have to work it really fast and know how to set up the gun to get an even pattern. I spent $320 on the Earlex and $45 on the gun.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

kkalin78 said:


> I agree that airless would not give same quality as HVLP. I have been using Wagner Control spray for a little bit over two years. It needs some practice and it will give a good result even with latex paint. I had only one issue with it. It is not suitable for really fine job. It has 2mm tip and cannot gives absolute smooth finish and it's hard to work on small details. For same reason it produces a litte bit overspray and bounce back. Now I have Earlex 5500 for this type of job and I still keep Wagner.


If you want to speed up that Earlex when spraying lacquer. When you adjust the spray you can get rid of the heavy spray on the sides of the pattern by loosening the tip ring a few turns. It's like having air flow adjustment. 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

nolo said:


> I'll pick up one of those sprayers and see how it does.
> 
> What type of product should I use for the primer, base, and glaze? I'm planning on using all of sherwin williams products.


While I am a fan of SW. I was turned on to Mohawk finishes. They also have a sanding sealer that is so easy to use. Mohawk is a pro grade but you can get it on line. By by S and W. I paid $60 a gal for SW and $30 for Mohawk. Same results except the Mohawk sprays better. The sealer cost is less per gal too.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

After seeing the finish your after. I would advise getting professional help. Your going to spend a great deal of time just learning to spray let alone trying a finish like this. 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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