# Boice Crane gap bed wood lathe



## Kansas Gary (Nov 13, 2014)

Is this lathe any good for a beginner to practice on? I have been wanting to try my hand at turning for a while now and found this one on our local craig list... He is asking 275$ for it. Here are a few pictures of it.....Thanks Gary


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Make sure it has MT, and a common spindle thread. If you buy it build a guard for the belt. I think that is probably a good lathe for a beginner.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It appears to be jury rigged with a different base on it but for the price I would buy it.


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## Kansas Gary (Nov 13, 2014)

hwebb99 said:


> Make sure it has MT, and a common spindle thread. If you buy it build a guard for the belt. I think that is probably a good lathe for a beginner.


Not sure what you mean when you say "MT" or "common spindle thread"? I have never turned anything so this is why I am asking dumb questions..................Gary


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

MT stands for morse taper. MT is what drive spurs, and centers use. The spindle is threaded for chucks, and faceplates. Some lathes have an oddball thread, and are hard to find a chuck, and faceplate to fit.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

MT is Morse Taper. http://littlemachineshop.com/reference/tapers.php That is the inside part of the headstock spindle which you use a spur center which has a Morse Taper which inserts into the headstock. As far as the spindle thread is the outside diameter of the spindle of the headstock which a good size would be 1" outside diameter and 8 threads per inch.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

That looks like the Boice Crane 1700 lathe. That is the original stand, but the belt guard assembly is missing. That isn't the original motor either. They have Morse taper sockets in both the spindle and in the tailstock quill and you can almost bet your bottom dollar that they will not be in good condition -- probably pitted and rusted and galled all to heck. I don't think that the thread size on the spindle nose is standard to what lathes use now. Sixty five years ago it was considered a nice home lathe, but that was 65 years ago. The bottom speed on the four speed model is 960 RPM -- way way way too fast for faceplate turning! They also offered a counter-shaft kit to get eight different speeds. The eight speed model had a bottom speed of around 250 RPM which is a reasonable speed for faceplate turning. This model also had an indexing pin which is one of the things that help to identify it. They originally sold for around $40. I wouldn't give a plug nickel for one now.

The asking price of $275 for that lathe is beyond absurd unless you are a collector and just have to get it to complete a collection of junk. Do the smart thing and buy a Jet mini or midi lathe. It's more money, but you won't have the heartburn of making a bad choice.


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## 9thousandfeet (Dec 28, 2014)

No, you don't want that one.

What Bill said, plus that banjo and toolrest post lock will be so frustrating to operate you'll end up spending more on psychotherapy than you would if you bought something more compatible with modern turning accessories. 

I love older machinery and I like tinkering to make things work, but I'd totally pass on that one.
Unless the seller will come down to letting you have it for the price of lunch. 
Even then I'd want it delivered.


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## Kansas Gary (Nov 13, 2014)

Ok thanks guys for all the information on this one. I think I will pass on this one then. Can anyone give me a few brands to keep my eye out for that might work ok for a beginner? Also should I consider a table top one or keep to the floor model ones?? Thanks again for all the information,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The problem with lathes is you can easily drop more than a thousand dollars into one. You could save quite a bit by enduring a little inconvenience. You could do a lot worse than that Boice Crane.


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## 9thousandfeet (Dec 28, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> The problem with lathes is you can easily drop more than a thousand dollars into one. You could save quite a bit by enduring a little inconvenience. You could do a lot worse than that Boice Crane.


 Good grief Steve.
If I came to the flatwork forum and said I'd "like to try my hand and woodworking" and then asked about the wisdom of dropping close to $300 on an old tablesaw which required me to pick up tools every time I wanted to raise/lower/tilt the blade, and some more tools every time I needed to move the fence, and which had an arbor that won't readily accept modern blade sizes, what would you tell me?

That I could do worse?

'Cos that's the equivalent of what we're looking at here.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

9thousandfeet said:


> Good grief Steve.
> If I came to the flatwork forum and said I'd "like to try my hand and woodworking" and then asked about the wisdom of dropping close to $300 on an old tablesaw which required me to pick up tools every time I wanted to raise/lower/tilt the blade, and some more tools every time I needed to move the fence, and which had an arbor that won't readily accept modern blade sizes, what would you tell me?
> 
> That I could do worse?
> ...


I don't see that lathe is any worse than the Fay and Egan lathe I have. I started off with a homemade lathe so you can do worse.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

As long as it has No2 MT in the head&tail stock, and the op doesn't plan to turn any bowls it probably is ok. If you are determined to turn bowls on it you could modify the drive system. I wouldn't pay more than $150 for it.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

If you bought it, you could probably find a handle or epoxy or weld a wrench to the nut so you didn't have to look around for it. As much as one moves the banjo around when turning though, it'd seriously disrupt your rhythm to have to stop, find your wrench, loosen, move, tighten repeat ad nauseum. JMHO


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Any lever would hit the post. I would epoxy a socket to the nut, and use a ratchet to tighten it.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

The bottom of the totem pole on new lathes would probably be Harbor Freight. They have a couple models that are worse than the Boice Crane and they have a couple models that are better. And, the best part is that they cost less than that pile of rust, work better, you won't need to start a new hobby of restoring old machinery, and you will have a new machine warranty to boot.

Sure you can put lipstick on a pig. To make a serviceable bowl turning lathe out of the Boice Crane pig, you can count on spending at least another $300 to get the Morse taper sockets re-bored and then you will come to the unhappy realization that the spindle and tailstock points won't line up. Add the cost of a countershaft, pulleys, pillow blocks and other miscellaneous hardware to get the speed down to something reasonable for bowl turning. After all is said and done, you will have a lightweight lathe that is suitble for spindle turning, but too lightweight for anything other than small bowls. In the end, you will have nickel and dime'd yourself into spending more than the cost of a new Jet mini for sure and maybe even a Jet midi ... and will have lathe that you can sell on Craig's list for may $150 ... if you'll deliver it and give the buyer at least $150 worth of accessories.

I've known several woodturners who went for the "cheap" route with a bargain found on eBay or Craig's list. To a person, they have all said that they wish that they knew then what they know now.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> I don't see that lathe is any worse than the Fay and Egan lathe I have. I started off with a homemade lathe so you can do worse.


You can always find something worse, but that's not sufficient justification for recommending the next-to-worst machine. :no:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bill Boehme said:


> You can always find something worse, but that's not sufficient justification for recommending the next-to-worst machine. :no:


Well a couple of you have recommended against that lathe but nobody has suggested an alternative. At least that lathe was affordable and would get him some experience with a lathe. Then years from now if he wanted to put a grand or more into a lathe he could sell that lathe and upgrade.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

When he is looking on Craigslist it is hard to recommend a better lathe. This lathe isn't affordable after he gets it in working order he will have over 1000 in it.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Well a couple of you have recommended against that lathe but nobody has suggested an alternative. At least that lathe was affordable and would get him some experience with a lathe. Then years from now if he wanted to put a grand or more into a lathe he could sell that lathe and upgrade.


Not so! I have made several suggestions for new machines that are affordable especially in light of the price of the Boice Crane.


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## 9thousandfeet (Dec 28, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Well a couple of you have recommended against that lathe but nobody has suggested an alternative. At least that lathe was affordable and would get him some experience with a lathe. Then years from now if he wanted to put a grand or more into a lathe he could sell that lathe and upgrade.


 Sure. And he'd have a piece of crap that would give him a completely distorted picture of what turning is all about and would be worth nothing even close to the money which would need to be sunk into it.

And Bill did suggest a couple of Jets as a possible alternatives, neither of which would have a beginner fighting his equipment as he learns to turn. 

And if he decides turning is not for him, or falls in love with turning and wants to trade up, he can sell that newer lathe without taking anything like the financial hit he'd take by throwing money into trying to make that pile of junk behave. 

I'm new around here, but I'm going with the assumption that the purpose of this forum is for us all to help each other out as best we can. 
Recommending that a brand new turner buy a piece of junk that will fight them at every turn and which will require refurbishing and tuning in ways that would only be evident to someone who already has turning experience is ridiculous. Cruel, even.
Sorry, but it is.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm a relative newbie who bought a used lathe a little while back. When I bought mine, it was just the lathe. Even though I didn't have to do any work to the lathe, I was a little amazed by how much I spent to outfit it. A chuck, chuck jaws, centers, lathe tools etc. If you can find one, I'd suggest you see if you can find a lathe where the seller includes some "stuff" with it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

9thousandfeet said:


> Sure. And he'd have a piece of crap that would give him a completely distorted picture of what turning is all about and would be worth nothing even close to the money which would need to be sunk into it.
> 
> And Bill did suggest a couple of Jets as a possible alternatives, neither of which would have a beginner fighting his equipment as he learns to turn.
> 
> ...


Having to use a wrench to move the tool rest hardly makes the lathe a piece of junk. It only takes moments. Not having a lathe at all is a far bigger handicap.


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## elainebe (Dec 14, 2015)

*I am new and have this lathe*

Hello all, If you are still reading this thread...I stumbled across it in my search for the spindle thread. I bought this lathe (without the tool rest) for $40, and pieced together a tool rest to get started ... have done some spindle turning. To top off the 'put together' feel of this lathe it looks like the previous owner cut away a bit of the bed to make room for larger bowl turning. 
I guess it suits my purposes for now (just exploring) but would still like to know the unconventional threading and where someone would get such a thread (it appears to be either 1x14 or 1x16tpi). 
Thanks for any info.
EB


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I think the bed gap was factory. I would have a machinist make an adapter to make the spindle accept 1-1/4-8 threaded accessories. This is a much more common thread, and would allow you to to use the same accessories if you upgraded lathes.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

elainebe said:


> ... To top off the 'put together' feel of this lathe it looks like the previous owner cut away a bit of the bed to make room for larger bowl turning.
> 
> ..... where someone would get such a thread (it appears to be either 1x14 or 1x16tpi)...


It's called a "gap-bed" lathe and it's not at all unusual to see that type of bed on smaller and mid-size spindle lathes. However the lathe really isn't suitable for turning any bowl that would be large enough to make use of the gap. The reason is that the minimum speed is way too fast to start roughing out a bowl. Couple that with the very light weight design and you would have a lathe that you would have to chase around the shop. :laughing:

In all seriousness, it would present a hazardous situation because of the likelihood of tossing the bowl due to vibration or especially if there is a catch.

It is easy to measure the thread size and you will need to know it before you buy any chucks or faceplates. The thread could be 3/4 X 16 as that is a common size. You have a choice of getting chucks and faceplates to fit your thread size, but it will limit you to getting them from either Oneway or Vicmarc -- or, your other option is to get an adapter to go to a more common size such as 1 X 8 or 1 1/4 X 8. If your spindle is 3/4 X 16 then you can get an adapter from Oneway. If you need to match an unusual thread size on the spindle then your best bet is to go to Best Wood Tools. This would cost less than having a local machinist custom make one for you.


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## elainebe (Dec 14, 2015)

*Boice lathe*

Thank you for the replies. I should have been more clear ...in addition to the factory gap in the bed someone did indeed cut away more of the bed such that the tail stock will not meet the head stock for alignment inspection etc (the cut is not completely square and so is obvious but the lathe still feels solid).
I keep forgetting to bring home a thread pitch gauge but am fairly sure it is 1X14tp (I count 7 threads in 1/2" but can confirm when I have the gauge).

Would someone please estimate the maximum bowl size that could be turned safely on such a lathe?


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

That depends on how good you are at rounding and balancing a blank. If you are bad it it about 4-6 inches is about all you can do. If you are good at it maybe a shallow 10 inch bowl. If you add a jack shaft to slow the minimum speed and add weight to damper vibration you could turn the biggest bowl that will fit on it. Adding weight Is a good idea even without the jack shaft.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

elainebe said:


> Hello all, If you are still reading this thread...I stumbled across it in my search for the spindle thread. I bought this lathe (without the tool rest) for $40, and pieced together a tool rest to get started ... have done some spindle turning. To top off the 'put together' feel of this lathe it looks like the previous owner cut away a bit of the bed to make room for larger bowl turning.
> I guess it suits my purposes for now (just exploring) but would still like to know the unconventional threading and where someone would get such a thread (it appears to be either 1x14 or 1x16tpi).
> Thanks for any info.
> EB


Probably 1" - 14 TPI, not that common.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

elainebe said:


> .... I keep forgetting to bring home a thread pitch gauge but am fairly sure it is 1X14tp (I count 7 threads in 1/2" but can confirm when I have the gauge)....


When measuring the thread pitch, don't count the first thread at the zero mark on the ruler. Here is a link to *Best Wood Tools*. They have an off-the-shelf adapter that is 1 X 12. If the spindle nose thread really is 1 X 14, give them a call and they can make a custom adapter for you.


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## elainebe (Dec 14, 2015)

The spindle thread is, it turns out, 1x14. I did contact Best Wood Tools (thank you) and it would be close to $100 in the end. The lathe continues to confound as the tail stock live center is a thread on ergonomically ill shaped affair with a somewhat crunchy bearing (it's a tiny point inside a larger ring that threads onto a straight adjustable shaft). I have not come up with a way to fabricate this defunct part...so now pondering getting what use I can from the lathe (perhaps with a fabricated face plate) while it lasts w/o trying to upgrade (unless it can saved from complete defunct-ness somehow).


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