# Selling Pens



## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

I see that Bass just got an order for his pens. Congrats.
I see some of you other pen turners sell your wares.

How do you get you buyers?
Who buys them?
Large quantities?
Custom?

Just curious.......


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I sell at Craft shows, street fairs, farmers markets and holiday bazaars. I have some repeat customers and have had a few small orders. But I also sell a lot of other items too.


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## fhrjr (Mar 3, 2012)

I have a friend in KY that ships me wood and he does quite well with his pens. He makes them from everything from snake skin to elephant hide to wood. He has a special briefcase that holds around 100 pens. His prices start around $250 and go up. He has had luck with doctors, lawyers etc. who want an unusual gift. His work is flawless and he targets money people. He does both ball point and fountain pens. He was able to give up his work a day job and now only does woodworking.


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## Whaler (Mar 9, 2011)

I don't do any shows but sell through a jewelry store and a gift shop here in town. I could probably sell more at our farmers market but I spent 45 years in sales and now the less I have to deal with customers the better.


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## CB&D (Nov 29, 2010)

Why kind of Pen kits dose your friend use to sell them for that amount of money?

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I sell in jewelry stores, craft stores/shows and online.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

If going to get into pen turning, better enjoy making them before thinking about sales. If make enough or break even from your hobby consider yourself lucky. 

Many folks forget can cost money selling pens too! Gross sales does not take into account overhead and taxes. Check your local and state requirements for collecting sales taxes. 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f17/what-were-your-gross-sales-2011-a-91201/


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## Evilfrog (Aug 2, 2011)

CB&D said:


> Why kind of Pen kits dose your friend use to sell them for that amount of money?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


Pen kit shouldn't really enter into the amount of money besides the base cost. I.E, if you are selling a slimline pen kit made from a $2.00 kit, and one from a $10.00 kit. The one from a $10.00 kit should sell for $8.00 more dollars.

The idea is the sell the craftsman ship of the pen itself. (value is in the rareness of the wood, and the skill of the craftier.) You have to sell yourself, and the pen. 

Know who you are selling too. If you browse Etsy, you'll see a lot of people selling pens for ~$25. You'll also find some people selling theirs for ~$15 bucks. In a lot of cases you wont be able to notice a quality difference between the two pens. But you'll see taht the $25 pens sell more often. Because people on Etsy aren't value shopping. They are looking for unique hand crafted pieces, and are willing to spend the $10 bucks for something the perceive is better. So good pictures and good descriptions are a must.


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## CB&D (Nov 29, 2010)

I agree with the statements about craftsmanship, selling yourself, local taxes. The rarity of the wood being used and enjoying what you do, I was also concerned about the quality of the kits. I have order several different kits from different suppliers and have noticed some quality issues. I want to make something unique, also some thing that will last the user, not just to sell something, if I sold one and they were happy that would be great!!!
Thanks for the input!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## Evilfrog (Aug 2, 2011)

CB&D said:


> I was also concerned about the quality of the kits. I have order several different kits from different suppliers and have noticed some quality issues. I want to make something unique, also some thing that will last the user, not just to sell something, if I sold one and they were happy that would be great!!!
> Thanks for the input!!!


Ah. I misunderstood the question. You wanted to know what type of kits was used in the high dollar pens. Not what kits to use to increase your price on the pens. 

I'm still working on that question for myself. :icon_smile:


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

My sales started through friends and family and guys at work. Its all word of mouth. I do have a FB page where I post pics of all my work and take custom orders. 90% of everything I sell right now is custom orders. I do hope to expand to an Etsy page and maybe some kind of local market but for the time being, I only get a few hours to turn on the weekend so I do good to keep all my orders filled.


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## CB&D (Nov 29, 2010)

That is correct Evil frog.....
I know there can be a vast disparity between what artists sell their work for and the materials used. Such as in the case of wine stoppers using crome stoppers or say a Ruth Niles stopper that is Stainless Steel and made in the USA......

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

I do have a question for those of you selling in jewelry stores and such. Do you actually sell your product to the store or do they just let you keep an inventory there and you replenish the stock every so often? I'd love to find some kind of local market to sell pens when I get more time to spend at the lathe.

I went to a consignment shop that deals in high end home furnishings and local art and they wanted a 50% comision to sell anything in thier store.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

While 50% seems high for a consignment shop, still not bad, if they move pens. If can leave business cards along with pens may pick up other orders. 

You want a simple written agreement spelling out terms both agree too. Besides being paid, pay attention to inventory loss (theft) and responsibility. They must be responsible or do not do business with them. 

Would try it on a temporary basis (90 days) and see how things go. You can always negotiate better terms if your pens and other turnings are hot sellers. Do not forget to stop by and check inventory and talk to store personnel occasionally you need feedback on what is selling and what is not.


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## VaureyWWC (Feb 21, 2011)

I personally like to buy bulk of the cheaper pen kits <$2 and sell them for 9.50 at a local market.

I like making a lot of those because you need to realize that the people who are willing to buy a pen for 10.00 will more than likely to buy a very nice quality pen for more money. Also a thing to look into is selling in bulk for weddings and offices. I like to save 10 pens and then sell the group for for 80-100. This works great for offices, and your still making money off of them.

I also wouldn't suggest sites like etsy or eBay there is far to much competition and your unlikely to sell your pens unless you get very creative with the designs.


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## Whaler (Mar 9, 2011)

My sales are all consignment. The gift shop gets 25% and I set the retail price which is $35.00 for a Sierra. With the jewelry store I set what I call a wholesale price and they double it and they are higher end pens that they will sell for $75.00 to $150.00.


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## PhilipCollier (Jan 2, 2012)

You also need to take in to account the time you spend on the pens, and other materials( ie finishes, sand paper, drill bits, etc.) You might be able to use them over and over nut they will wearout eventually. 10.00 pens are great, but with a 2.00 kit, time to make, dry, or flat out buying the blank, then the time to cut, glue, and finish, do you really think you are worth less then 5.00 an hour?


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

PhilipCollier said:


> You also need to take in to account the time you spend on the pens, and other materials( ie finishes, sand paper, drill bits, etc.) You might be able to use them over and over nut they will wearout eventually. 10.00 pens are great, but with a 2.00 kit, time to make, dry, or flat out buying the blank, then the time to cut, glue, and finish, do you really think you are worth less then 5.00 an hour?


Everything I have sold, I have made $5 to $10 profit. My reason is because for me, its not about trying to make money or get what I think my time is worth. I just really enjoy my time makeing things on the lathe. I'm just selling things to support my hobby. Now, if I go through the effort of selling somewhere else, whether it be online or in someones store, then yes, I'm going to price my items high enough to make a few bucks. Right now, I'm just enjoying a hobby that is paying for itself. I have lots of other hobbies and none of them make money, let alone support themselves.

Where are you from? I am also a Collier.


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## PhilipCollier (Jan 2, 2012)

Originally from Oklahoma..family is from Arkansas. Not that many Colliers around up in the north east where i am now.

I was going to say that about the pens, that selling them is a great way to offset some of your costs..ie support your habit.....same thing i do. Unless your are a superior salesman, you arent gonna get rich from it. Making pens for their beauty, and to show off your skill is in many ways it own reward though.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

PhilipCollier said:


> Originally from Oklahoma..family is from Arkansas. Not that many Colliers around up in the north east where i am now.
> 
> I was going to say that about the pens, that selling them is a great way to offset some of your costs..ie support your habit.....same thing i do. Unless your are a superior salesman, you arent gonna get rich from it. Making pens for their beauty, and to show off your skill is in many ways it own reward though.


 I have family in OH, KY, AZ, CO, MO, FL. Not sure about OK or AR.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Much like Whaler the jewelry store doubles the wholesale price. Some store buy outright now so it's much nicer to drop off 8-16 pens and collect the money. The pens differ at each store some buy outright and others prefer consignment which I set a higher wholesale price for. It encourages them to buy outright.

Craft store or local gift stores I try to just sell outright, consignment or just pay so much for a set amount of space at the counter by the register. I like the last one best.


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## JTTHECLOCKMAN (Dec 31, 2011)

Selling our items is always a work in progress. It is not an easy thing to find that niche of where to sell. Some people are very lucky and yes luck does play a roll, that they can sell to high priced clientel. It does take some leg work and searching.


I have a question though and it to me is a moral one. 

Those that sell to jewlery stores or other outlets and you sell wholesale, and they now turn around and sell that pen for double, what do you do if you want to sell those exact same pens??? Do you now sell your pens for the price they are asking??? I don't think it is fair for you to now go and sell that exact same pen on line or some show for less. To me that is not morally right. Now if I would sell to a jewlery store I would make an exclusive line just for those stores so that conflict of interest does not occur. How do you all feel about this practice.?????


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## Whaler (Mar 9, 2011)

JTTHECLOCKMAN said:


> Selling our items is always a work in progress. It is not an easy thing to find that niche of where to sell. Some people are very lucky and yes luck does play a roll, that they can sell to high priced clientel. It does take some leg work and searching.
> 
> 
> I have a question though and it to me is a moral one.
> ...


I don't sell on line and only sell a few direct to friends which I discount from the jewelry store price. The people I sell direct to probably wouldn't go into the store and sure wouldn't pay their price so I have no problem with the pricing. Now if I was on line and doing local shows I would not undercut them.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

I cannot make a pen for less than $10.00 because of consumables needed to make pens a constant expense. To me there is no challenge in making $2.00 kits and selling them for $10.00 or less.

If going to start selling pens advise joining IAP so can view marketplace thread. You will find a lot of information on selling wholesale, consignment shops, on-line, and going to shows. Method you use to sell pens entirely up to you, but lot of tips on additional equipment or information you need to get started.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/

Yes, a few people over there make and sell pens for $250.00 or more. Majority pen turners over there just sell enough to cover expenses or break even.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

JTTHECLOCKMAN said:


> Selling our items is always a work in progress. It is not an easy thing to find that niche of where to sell. Some people are very lucky and yes luck does play a roll, that they can sell to high priced clientel. It does take some leg work and searching.
> 
> 
> I have a question though and it to me is a moral one.
> ...


My wholesale price allows them to be competitive with what other similar pens sell for on line (Etsy). The jewelry stores I sell to or 50 to 85 miles away so my sales are not in direct competition with them. 

I look at Etsy and the pens in my eyes are overpriced in a lot of cases but the prices the Jewelry stores will be selling them or online with those Etsy prices. I'm not saying they have to double my prices that's there choice and they may lower the price if they feel it is right for them. The jewelery store is another outlet it's a business and we are both benefiting. I am at no way obligated to help them make more money by hurting myself. With that said my full price in other locations is what I consider a fair price. It is less somewhere in between Etsy prices and my wholesale price.


I have a few rules I follow when pricing anything I sell.

1) I consider my material cost first and look at my time involved.

2) I then try to get a ball park idea of what I think I would be willing to pay for the item.

3) I will then look at the competition and see how my prices compare. If they have big differences either direction I will try 
to understand why. Is there a difference in quality, what is the location that they are selling in. If I feel that some adjustments either way to my pricing is warranted I will do so.

4) The most important thing is I must be able to sleep at night with 
my decision.


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## JTTHECLOCKMAN (Dec 31, 2011)

Selling pens or anything takes abit of luck skill and good location and at times good timing. Good luck to all that sell their pens.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

People giving away pens they make not the problem.

Since 2004 have made and given over $1,000 worth pens to Pen for Service Members. That cost is just price of kits, blanks, and shipping, and not labor. Have also made and given good amount to family and people I know. No did not keep records or take a charitable deduction for my efforts. 

Have no problem saying 85% of pen turners do not rely on income garnered from pen sales.
The other 15% know the market, use word of mouth, web sites, craft shows, sell wholesale & retail and have bevy of repeat customers. That 15% keep records: production & selling cost, take advantage of depreciation & misc deductions for tools and equipment, travel expenses, advertizing & insurance cost. Most onerous chore of all is making sure states get their sales tax. 

People selling pens for less than cost to make & sell skew the marketplace. 

Only difficulty selling pens or other turnings is find out what works for you. Joining IAP cost nothing but your time folks there can help you find out what works and what does not.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

wildwood said:


> People giving away pens they make not the problem.
> 
> Since 2004 have made and given over $1,000 worth pens to Pen for Service Members. That cost is just price of kits, blanks, and shipping, and not labor. Have also made and given good amount to family and people I know. No did not keep records or take a charitable deduction for my efforts.
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone said they sell pens for less then what it cost to make. I also don't remember anyone saying there was a problem with people giving pens away. What is your point.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

RRBROWN, RESONDED TO UNEDITED POST OF JTTHECLOCKMAN, I SHOULD HAVE QUOTED THE ALPHA HOTEL IN MY RESPONSE WHERE ASSAILED FOLKS FOR MAKING AND GIVING AWAY PENS! 

Not sure, know any pen turner that has not made and given away pens to family & friends & charities. People making and giving away pens are not in competition with folks selling them!

RRBROWN, did you read my earlier post where said cannot make a $2.00 pen kit for less than $10.00 much less sell for under $10.00? One of our posters can god bless him! 

RRBROWN, know little bit about cost to make, cost to sell and have seen people on line and at shows making and selling pens for less than cost to make. Rest assure not the only one with this knowledge!


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

wildwood said:


> RRBROWN, did you read my earlier post where said cannot make a $2.00 pen kit for less than $10.00 much less sell for under $10.00? One of our posters can god bless him!


 I can!! I dunno what your doing wrong but I can make a pen for less than 10 bucks. Generic $2.00 slimline kits in gold and chrome cost me between $6 and $7 to make depending on the species of wood and thats being liberal with the guestimation of my cost for sand paper, finish and other items it takes. I sell those pens for $15 so I double my money on them. Obviously were not talking about using expensive burls and such and even then, those can be had on the cheap if you shop right. I get most of my blanks from members here and another site for less than half of buying them from a supplier most of the time.

I'm curious how your spending more than $10 making a $2.00 kit?


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm assuming when folks are saying you can't make /sell a $2 kit for less than $10, they are factoring in more than just kit, blank and finish used. What about labor, cost of tools, etc? Before you start talking profit you have to account for all those things. I've been doing the craft show/farmers market thing for the last 3.5 years and 2011 was the first year I showed an honest to god "profit", and that was a whopping $3000. Don't think I'll be quitting the day job any time soon ;-)


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## Evilfrog (Aug 2, 2011)

sawdustfactory said:


> I'm assuming when folks are saying you can't make /sell a $2 kit for less than $10, they are factoring in more than just kit, blank and finish used.


Labor is the issue. You have to think of it if you were running a company.

Price for pen should be:

*Materials*
- kit 
- blank
*Labor costs*
Hourly wage of what you want to be paid (min wage is $7.25) 

So if you have a $2 kit, and a $1.5 blank, and it takes you an hour to make the pen. (Cut, drill, turn, finish, assemble) You have $10.75 into that pen. 

Ideally, anything you sell that pen for should be counted as gross profit. If you sold it for $15.00 you'll have $4.25 in gross profit. At the end of the year, you'll take that gross profit. At the end of the year you'll take that gross profit, and subtract all the other cost associated with running the business.

This includes new sand paper, finishes, rags, safety shields, new tools, power used to power the lathe / drill press. 

gross profit - cost = net profit

Cost gets to be tax deducted. 

Most hobbyist lump their labor cost into gross profit, since they are the their only employee. Since the time spent turning the pen isn't "work" it's fun. (that's why it's a Hobby!) But I think it's important to at least calculate into your prices like it's part of the cost of making the pen, and not remove it. If you do, you'll never really make money do this. (and for a lot of Hobbyist out there, that's okay! This is fun!) 

Please note, that while It doesn't take an hour to turn a pen, I most certainly feel my time as a craftsmen is not worth minimum wage. Those numbers were just picked for easy of the example.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

wildwood said:


> RRBROWN, RESONDED TO UNEDITED POST OF JTTHECLOCKMAN, I SHOULD HAVE QUOTED THE ALPHA HOTEL IN MY RESPONSE WHERE ASSAILED FOLKS FOR MAKING AND GIVING AWAY PENS!
> 
> Not sure, know any pen turner that has not made and given away pens to family & friends & charities. People making and giving away pens are not in competition with folks selling them!
> 
> ...



Wildwood if you think adding all the caps and bolds helped me understand your wrong. *NO NEED TO SHOUT!!!*

I asked questions because I didn't understand what you were talking about. Now maybe if the text wasn't edited I could have. With that said I think a simple response of "Sorry RR, I was responding to a post that was later edited." sounds allot better. Just my opinion.

As for the edited post you quoted. Evidently JTTHECLOCKMAN thought it better to change the post because of how it sounded. I say good for him. 

Try and read you quoted text above and tell me if it's clear. I don't know if your riled up or just can't type good like me. :laughing: I try to proof read my post and edit if I miss something. I want everyone to understand what I'm posting.

Now onto the topic at hand I think.

Do I like people selling stuff cheaper then what I can. No not really but in some cases it may be understandable. Maybe they buy in bulk or got a really good deal. Maybe they have allot of stock and just want to get rid of it to recoup some of there money on a failed business adventure. If it's not something like that, they won't be doing it for long because they make little to no money or they are selling cheap pens and will get a bad reputation. 

My job as a craftsmen is to make a quality product that I will be proud of and stand behind. My job as a salesman is to market in the right way to make my product more appealing then others. It's also my job to be professional, knowledgeable about my product, honest with my customers and down right likable to give my customers the best possible experience when buying my products. That's how you get return customers.

One last thing. I find it better if I make a little less on an item and sell allot more items then if I make allot of money on just a few items. I'm not saying selling dirt cheap but in a economy like we have today it is important that the customer feel good about a purchase price or they may just move on. 



_Disclaimer The above post is just my opinion from knowledge of more then 25 years of selling my products to include woodworking, crafts, fine art and signs. If you don't agree with me don't bite my head off.:laughing::laughing::laughing:_


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

Rrbrown obliviously your previous post got my stuff in a bunch!


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

BassBlaster, bottom line, have both full and fractional cost to make one pen. Everyone is different on how to compute *actual cost* to make his or her pens. Whether a hobbyist or full time pen turner how you figure cost and price what you sell entirely up to you. 

I can buy 10 24kt or chrome Slimline kits & bushings add shipping & insurance for $28.00 or $2.80 per kit. (_Having made well over 100 Slimline pens need new bushings.)_

Using my wood price blanks at $5.00 per blank cost so far $7.80 per pen. 

What not included in that $7.80 per pen cost: adj mandrel, barrel trimmer, calipers, dissemble tool, glue, micro mesh, finishing products, bandsaw & blades, lathe & turning tools, drill press & vise, drill bits, chainsaw, fuel & maintenance, pick-up truck, insurance, electricity. 

Do not include cost to sell have no way of knowing until time comes and will adjust prices accordingly. My way of saying also flexible on price to sell.

I have to think about replacement cost of equipment and consumables when pricing a pen. I think my knowledge and skill worth more than $7.80 per hour. So, doubling cost of kit and blank not going to pay the bills. 

I am not an expert on business, or sales, or so full of myself that you need to take notes. Why else do you think recommend joining IAP and having look at marketing thread.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

wildwood said:


> Rrbrown obliviously your previous post got my stuff in a bunch!


Well unbunch it. :laughing::laughing:


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

wildwood said:


> BassBlaster, bottom line, have both full and fractional cost to make one pen. Everyone is different on how to compute *actual cost* to make his or her pens. Whether a hobbyist or full time pen turner how you figure cost and price what you sell entirely up to you.
> 
> I can buy 10 24kt or chrome Slimline kits & bushings add shipping & insurance for $28.00 or $2.80 per kit. (_Having made well over 100 Slimline pens need new bushings.)_
> 
> ...


 I might buy into this if you are running a pen making shop and thats how you make a living. Maybe you are but I doubt it.

What kind of wood are you selling on these pens that cost you $5 per blank? I can buy exotic blanks at the local Woodcraft for 2 bucks. The most expensive wood supplier Ive found. Try looking there and that eliminates your need for the band saw and blades, chain saw, fuel and oil and the pick up truck. 90% of the blanks I use I pay less than a dollar for and I'm not buying junk. Most of the blanks I buy are spalted woods, highly figured woods, really rare woods, etc and I still get them at really good prices so I dont have to charge my customers $5 for the blank.

As for the labor, ITS A HOBBY, ITS NOT LABOR. Charging people a labor rate for something you do as a hobby, turns your hobby into a job and it isnt fun anymore. I dont charge labor. I add up my total cost to make said pen, then add a few bucks. On the cheaper pens I just double the cost. All the extra money does is cover shipping on orders and such. I'm not making anything or at least very little. Like I said before. This is a hobby. Its the only hobby I have ever had that supports itself. My other hobbies cost me a small fortune with zero return other than my own pleasure.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Bass, you said:


> Everything I have sold, I have made $5 to $10 profit.


. I think everyone's just trying to point out that it's not really "profit" at this point.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

sawdustfactory said:


> Bass, you said:. I think everyone's just trying to point out that it's not really "profit" at this point.


 I guess I worded that wrong. All the pens I sell, I sell for 5 to 10 bucks over my cost. I realize thats not profit when all things are considered but thats not what I'm trying to do. Right now, its just supporting itself and I'm happy with that. Maybe down the road, I'll get into some higher end stuff for the purpose of profit.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

> Right now, its just supporting itself and I'm happy with that.


Then that's all that really matters!:thumbsup::yes:


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

“BassBlaster, bottom line, have both full and fractional cost to make one pen. Everyone is different on how to compute *actual cost* to make his or her pens. Whether a hobbyist or full time pen turner how you figure cost and price what you sell entirely up to you.”

If going to start selling pens advise joining IAP so can view marketplace thread. You will find a lot of information on selling wholesale, consignment shops, on-line, and going to shows. Method you use to sell pens entirely up to you, but lot of tips on additional equipment or information you need to get started.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/

Yes, a few people over there make and sell pens for $250.00 or more. Majority pen turners over there just sell enough to cover expenses or break even.


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## JTTHECLOCKMAN (Dec 31, 2011)

Well I get back here and see this post has taken some twists and turns. I also see someone must have been on line when I made my last post and yes I reread it and thought someone will get the wrong message with the wording I used so I deleted it. I have gotten in my fair share of disputes over wording so I try to be careful. 

I will make some posts here and will leave them here.

Wilwood you keep pushing the IAP site. They are not the Holly grail of the pen turning world that some may think. If you read any of the posts that you refer to you are reading what that person has done or is doing to sell their pens. You can read that on any forum about any thing. What works for one may not work for you. As the OP of this thread stated he was looking for options as to where to sell his pens and who was buying??? I think we need to try to answer his questions here and not send him to another site. This is about this site not IAP. 

I will start and say I have done craft shows for over 25 years selling my scrollsaw work. I have over the past 3 years incorporated my turning which includes pens. They have not been huge sellers and the reason is the market is soft right now and also people with throw away cash like I call them do not come to craft shows. Craft shows are a dying breed. It is just not the same as it was 25 years ago. I made some good money doing shows. The internet has taken away most of this and it just is a different enviroment today. I have resided to set up a web site but I started last year with the help of someone but my Mom got hurt and with her dimentia it has been a handful so my time is limited to do anything. I will pursue the net avenue though. I will not sell pens on etsy or ebay because of the competition. I feel people undervalue their work just for the sake of selling a few pieces and it has a negative effect on all pen turners. 

There are many places to try selling your pens and a few have been mentioned here already and that is jewlery stores, consignment stores, and shows both craft shows and highend artsy shows. How well you do depends on alot of factors and luck is one of them. You need to get your name out there so advertising is key. If you sell wholesale or do consignments there is different things that need to be taken into consideration but the bottom line is know the bottom line. You need an end game. You need to know who is responsible for theft, breakage, taxes, shipping and all sorts of things. You need to know the terms of the agreements and what your end responsabilities are which can be trying so you need to be able to make those commitments. I have been there and done that.

Now there is the sell to friends thing and hope word of mouth takes you places and that rarely does unless again if you are one of the lucky few. Meeting that right contact could mean profit but not everyone this will happen is my point. 

Fairs and shows or farmers market will bring low end clients and if that is what you feel where you want to be then that is for you and may not be for anyone else. 

Highend gallery shows maybe an answer if you sell highend quality work and let me tell you I have seen what some people call highend stuff and are proud of their pens that really need to have someone with a little more experince bring them back to earth. 

Now one of the things I deleted when I made the post was the fact that so many people talk about doing this as a hobby and giving pens away. I commend you for doing this and giving pens to servicemen is great but you don't have to let the world know about it. If you want to give your pens away then do so with less fanfare but us that want to sell our pens and yes want to make a profit don't want to read about your giveaways. Heck I have given away more things that I have made than I can shake a stick at. Not only pens. 

Yes this is a hobby to most and all they look to do is recoup a few bucks to keep up the hobby. But unless you are loaded with throw away cash this can be a very expensive hobby to say the least. So giving away pens is not an option for me because I do not have that throw away cash. As far as $2 pen kits I would not touch them with a ten foot pole. I have and never will make a slim line pen of any kind. Like I said if you want to take this hobby serious you want to make a name for yourself and using inferior products that plating wears off and or break within a few weeks of sales is not the way to go. Now with that said anyone who does this more power to you and go right ahead doing so. Good luck. 

Figuring out how much to charge for your pens can be as simple as looking at going rates from others to some safisicated formulas. But I do know if I sell a pen my labor charge will be in it. The intangables will also be incorporated. Everyone has their method and has tweaked it over the years I am sure. 

Advertising is another subject. People find doing business cards to be enough. Or just word of mouth or some go as far as pounding the pavements and knocking on doors. This all has to do with the individual and how far they want to take it or not take it. Some people are fortunate to work in an invorment where thay can make sales to fellow workers. I work construction and iI am not selling pens to construction workers. 

All that can be said is everone is different and we all have different goals. Now I will get off my soapbox and I will leave this post so if you want to throw arrows I am here. But these are my thoughts. 

Lets make some pens and show them here. :thumbsup:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

JTTHECLOCKMAN said:


> Wildwood you keep pushing the IAP site.


Wildwood Why are you pushing so hard for the IAP site? It's not just one time it's over and over. Your point has been made on that and anyone interested has got the idea, so please move on. We have a good forum here and it's getting old hearing you try to send people over to another forum like your a recruiter.


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## Glidden (Dec 2, 2010)

Woodworking, or woodturning in this case, is unique in that it _can _be self supporting as a hobby, which isn't all that common. I think once you take it from self supporting to actually profitable is great if you can do it, but I think many enthusiasts are just happy to have something that will help them regain a bit of what they put in. I don't think there are any right or wrong answers, just different levels of experience and involvement that you as the hobbiest can choose to be. 

Myself personally, I don't have the time to invest into building up a supply of retail goods between family and work, so I tend to give away or sell cheap what I make because I enjoy making people happy with what I make more than working to make a profit on what I make. There are a lot of options out there that I have explored, and used some already. For selling pens, trade and craft shows are nice, but you run the risk of not making enough profit to cover the booth cost, set up, etc. Making contacts at consignment stores is good so long as you are happy with the arrangment and are protected under some sort of agreement on theft, damage, etc. I've actually had my Mom, who works part time at a bank, set up displays for me at her desk, no prices, and as people ask about the pens she tells them they are for sale and I've had good luck selling them that way. I guess the key is to search around in your area for what will work and try and be creative about marketing. Good luck!


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## Artisan1993 (Oct 29, 2011)

Ok so I have tried to sell pens before at craft shows and on e-bay, with very little success. I never thought of the jewelry store thing so a few questions: What sort of jewelry stores are we talking, just any store or the more independent type? any preference? Secondly, to my understanding one requires some sort of licence to do business with stores in this way correct? In case anyone wants to know I sell my pens for fairly low prices, generally 10 for domestic material, 15-20 for exotics, or something in between for a mix or something. This is actually pretty fair profit for me for several reasons: I buy the basic slimline kits, I generally can make the pens fairly quickly, and most importantly my material cost is non existent because I work at a cabinet shop so I just scrounge little cut-offs from the garbage at the end of the day, either than or I use little scraps from whatever I build for fun on my own time, also I only graduated HS like a year ago and I got a ton of cut offs from the garbage in shop (and have been given the self induced title of Scrounger because of it.) At this point I have literally hundreds of blanks that I didn't pay a cent for, mostly maple second highest quantity being cherry. I basically gave up on this months ago but I like this jewelry store idea so details, please!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Artisan Your basic slimline pens with plain Maple, Cherry or whatever is not the type of pens I would sell in a jewelry Store. Second you have to find an Independent Jeweler that wants to sell them and have an agreement to cover both of you under any circumstance possible.

I sell high end kits for the most part with burls both exotic, domestic and or some dyed. It's not for everybody but it helps if your a good salesmen of you and your pens.

I looked in your albums and no pictures here's one that I made and sold.


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## JTTHECLOCKMAN (Dec 31, 2011)

I agree with Rich. Slimlines are not the kit you want to sell in jewlery stores. Especially the cheap plated ones which you seem to be making if you are selling at $10 and making a profit. 

Selling wholesale or consignment is not easy. You have to have all your ducks in a row. You need to make a decision as to how you are selling, wholesale or consignment. You need to have a written contract to protect both parties. You need to know how the taxes are handled, how theft is handled , how breakage is handled, and what selling prices will be for that store and all others so that carry your product. Can it be done, yes and some people do well. Your first thing is step up your game on quality of kits and fit and finish. You want to play with the big boys, come prepared. When you are seriously selling to the public and not giving them away as trinkets or gifts you need a good quality product. Don't get me wrong slimline pens can be a fine pen to sell because of the size and some women like the thiness but plating, plating, plating is key. You now put your name out there and quality will help keep it there. Make a cheap product and the next guy takes his shot at your spot. Good luck.


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## Whaler (Mar 9, 2011)

I agree with Rich and John on this. The jewelry store I deal with is locally owned and the pens are all high end. I am fortunate living in a small town where we still do business with a handshake and no business license is required on my part, no sales tax collecting or paperwork. I do though report my income to the IRS at tax time.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Whaler said:


> I agree with Rich and John on this. The jewelry store I deal with is locally owned and the pens are all high end. I am fortunate living in a small town where we still do business with a handshake and no business license is required on my part, no sales tax collecting or paperwork. I do though report my income to the IRS at tax time.


Just incase the IRS is viewing. Screw the sales tax collector though. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Whaler (Mar 9, 2011)

rrbrown said:


> Just incase the IRS is viewing. Screw the sales tax collector though.
> 😄😄😄😄


There is no sales tax charged when you are selling to a retailer for re sale. Sales tax is paid by the end user.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Whaler said:


> There is no sales tax charged when you are selling to a retailer for re sale. Sales tax is paid by the end user.


That could change by area. Businesses pay state sales tax on things for resale in some cases but no parish tax (County Tax for the other 49 states)

The state sales tax is deductible by the business.

And if you didn't get it I was Joking around.


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## Whaler (Mar 9, 2011)

rrbrown said:


> That could change by area. Businesses pay state sales tax on things for resale in some cases but no parish tax (County Tax for the other 49 states)
> 
> The state sales tax is deductible by the business.
> 
> And if you didn't get it I was Joking around.


Figured that you were. like you say the rules vary a lot by area.


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## Artisan1993 (Oct 29, 2011)

Alright thanks for putting that into perspective guys, I figured there was more to it, I may or may not go for this but if I do I'll have to do my homework plan it out well and I'll try to stick to the higher end kits and blanks (like I said I do have some exotics.)


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