# Krystal finish



## walseb2555 (Jan 19, 2012)

i have finished many projects with Campbell's Krystal finish and it is one of the most durable i have used. A large wood-shop taught me how to spray this and i haven't any complaints with the durability, but it just doesn't give the pieces that quality hand rubbed furniture finish. I was just wondering if there is something out there that will come close to durability yet give the pieces a more quality look. i have looked on the internet and have found a good many different types yet do not want to have to experiment with a lot of them hoping to find one. Any suggestions? I spray all of my projects up to date.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

I can guarantee that someone will disagree with me but .... to get a true "in the wood" look you pretty much have to hand rub. If you like you could spray a first coat and cut that down and move on to hand rubbing. There are multiple methods and finishes for hand rubbing a finish but ill only go into them if you are interested. I'm sure others will give you the various spray techniques that will get you close to the look you want.


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## walseb2555 (Jan 19, 2012)

thanks for your reply, I would like to get a beautiful furniture finish and wouldn't mind trying a hand rub. What would be the most durable hand rubbed finish on the market, i've tried tung oil and danish oil which i use on my work bench to keep the glue from getting in the wood but it doesn't have any durability against scratches or marks.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

though TJ is correct if he means by "hand" rub as to the in the wood finishes, , the use of rags, etc., under mild pressure applied by -> hand. But "Hand rubbed" has other meaning within the trade.

from the late 1800's through the 1960's and beyond, it was common to really hand rub a finish with brushes or rags etc., with the use of differing grades of pumice, rotten-stone, Tripoli or others with oil, or sometimes water or other liquids. My family practiced this until the early 70's and occasionally, when needed or necessary, after that. 

By the 60's especially, flatting agents [silicas mainly] started to be used to bring about the affect of sheen differences instead of abrasives. I picked up on this quickly because it was so much less labor intensive than the former. 

In time, instead of coating manufacturers using the normal chemistry language of "sheen" and degrees thereof, they offered their products as "rubbed" affects, ranging from satin rubbed, or medium rubbed or dull rubbed, depending on the still used gloss meter meanings such as, 90 degree, 60d, 40d, etc..

Yet a small percentage of small or single owner shops did keep actually doing "hand rubbed" finishes. this was a true "hand" rubbed affect. Where pumice/rotten stone/Tripoli or others were actually applied by hand and rubbed with the hand especially on those parts that would normally receive much more wear than other parts. this gave the look of age much more convincingly than a spray applied rubbed affect gave or still gives. 

As to high end historical copies of major antiques, that Baker/Karges/Kendell or others did in Michigan as well as other manufacturing areas of this work, they would fake this in different ways. but the end results were what appeared to be well kept 100+ year old finishes. 

So now, that you know this much, just what is it your really trying to achieve? An off the gun affect? A true hand rubbed affect with abrasives, or a real hand rubbed affect of museum qualities?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The nomenclature "rubbed" effect represents to me the amount of gloss a topcoat produces. I've used post cat finishes, and lacquer with different sheens. It's hard for me to tell the difference between a good CV finish and a water white lacquer finish. 

A lacquer finish can be applied to an open pored wood, like Red Oak, which will seal the wood and not applied to the point where the build gives it a slick finish. It can be applied leaving the wood with the grain differential look and feel, and not look like plastic.

A hand rubbed in finish would look similar to that.












 







.


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## Bob the Painter (Jan 24, 2012)

*rubbed*

Doesn't Sherwin Williams sell a precat lacquer that they say looks "hand rubbed"?:shifty:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Bob the Painter said:


> Doesn't Sherwin Williams sell a precat lacquer that they say looks "hand rubbed"?:shifty:


 





 
They do have the "rubbed" nomenclature:
http://oem.sherwin-williams.com/us/eng/oem/products/sherwood_lovoc_lacquer/
http://oem.sherwin-williams.com/us/eng/oem/products/sherwood_catalyzed_lacquer_precat/










 







.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

Chemmy and cabinetman are right, what they are referring to I usually refer to as a rubbed out finish. This gives a very high gloss sheen which I personally hate. I was indeed talking about a finish applied by rags or what I prefer: a rubber. For high end table tops etc. I use a multi step process that is approximately: three coats of waterlox (the first one thinned 20%) applied lightly with a rubber. Each coat is sanded in between with 320 or 400 and a felt block. Then I use a couple of coats of Lintungtane (liberally wiped on and then lightly yet completely wiped off) and occasionally a final polish of Nakagoop (this is a mix that Nakashima developed and finished his slabs off with and I learned from a guy that used to finish for him). No sanding after the Waterlox, 0000 steel wool if absolutely necessary before the first lintungtane. This will give you a finish that truly looks in the wood, doesn't pile around the pores, and is completely streak free. Is it time consuming and labor intensive? Yes. But the end result is incredible. A couple of shops in Dallas started paying me to travel there and finish their tables once they saw it.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

TylerJones said:


> Chemmy and cabinetman are right, what they are referring to I usually refer to as a rubbed out finish. This gives a very high gloss sheen which I personally hate. I was indeed talking about a finish applied by rags or what I prefer: a rubber. For high end table tops etc. I use a multi step process that is approximately: three coats of waterlox (the first one thinned 20%) applied lightly with a rubber. Each coat is sanded in between with 320 or 400 and a felt block. Then I use a couple of coats of Lintungtane (liberally wiped on and then lightly yet completely wiped off) and occasionally a final polish of Nakagoop (this is a mix that Nakashima developed and finished his slabs off with and I learned from a guy that used to finish for him). No sanding after the Waterlox, 0000 steel wool if absolutely necessary before the first lintungtane. This will give you a finish that truly looks in the wood, doesn't pile around the pores, and is completely streak free. Is it time consuming and labor intensive? Yes. But the end result is incredible. A couple of shops in Dallas started paying me to travel there and finish their tables once they saw it.


LINTUNGTANE, what a name lol, "lin"seed oil/ "tung" oil/ and polyureth"ane" huh?

Actually you can get a nice satin or even a fairly matt finish by rubbing with powder abrasives on a lacquer/varnish/acrylic/etc.. Just depends on how much you want to bring the gloss up. For a high gloss i usually use 3m compounds or others. 

Very interesting about the "nakagoop" though, lol. By chance was it made with Japanese resins or American, Urishi by chance? 
How was it against water or alcohol as compared to using each product seperately?

Walseb, I'm sure if you use TJ's methods and if he will share the needed info with you - you will end up with a very nice beautiful look, with better durability than BLO or tung by itself, especially blo. And it could be even better if urishi was the last steps. I doubt that is was, but would be interesting if you had the right conditions to dry it. 

Meanwhile, your first post said you were looking for something like krystal, but with more of that hand rubbed furniture affect correct? that would require building up a film on the surfaces, as others have mentioned. So i will bow out of this and let C'man help you decide on what you may try stain-wise and finish wise to get that off the gun look without any further rubbing. 

If by chance , your still not pleased with the results your getting, i may put my 2 cents worth in at that point, but no matter what you use, CV's/2k's/poly/ or the older amber finishes, it will be more the technique than the product as to what you prefer, if your really looking for that fine finished look.


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## walseb2555 (Jan 19, 2012)

This sounds like a finisih that may give me exactly what i am looking for, i have looked at most of the ingredients yet do not find anything on "nakagoop. i understand that this is a mixture. is urishi an ingredient , if so i can't find anywhere to get it if not what exactly is this?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

walseb2555 said:


> This sounds like a finisih that may give me exactly what i am looking for, i have looked at most of the ingredients yet do not find anything on "nakagoop. i understand that this is a mixture. is urishi an ingredient , if so i can't find anywhere to get it if not what exactly is this?


No, Urishi is japanese lacquer, toxic material, needs special conditions to dry in, and as i said i relly doubt it was part of the goop. Nor do i beleive the two together will give you what you say you want, or have seen. but again, i weill leave that to TJ, and C'man to discuss with you ok?


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

TylerJones said:


> Chemmy and cabinetman are right, what they are referring to I usually refer to as a rubbed out finish. This gives a very high gloss sheen which I personally hate. I was indeed talking about a finish applied by rags or what I prefer: a rubber. For high end table tops etc. I use a multi step process that is approximately: three coats of waterlox (the first one thinned 20%) applied lightly with a rubber. Each coat is sanded in between with 320 or 400 and a felt block. Then I use a couple of coats of Lintungtane (liberally wiped on and then lightly yet completely wiped off) and occasionally a final polish of Nakagoop (this is a mix that Nakashima developed and finished his slabs off with and I learned from a guy that used to finish for him). No sanding after the Waterlox, 0000 steel wool if absolutely necessary before the first lintungtane. This will give you a finish that truly looks in the wood, doesn't pile around the pores, and is completely streak free. Is it time consuming and labor intensive? Yes. But the end result is incredible. A couple of shops in Dallas started paying me to travel there and finish their tables once they saw it.


TJ, I assume that *lintungtane* is something you mix on your own? Would you be comfortable sharing the ratios of each ingredient? I assume we are talking tung oil, linseed oil and urethane? I use Waterlox a lot and love the stuff. I'd like to try this next step to compare with my current results. If you are not comfortable sharing I completely understand.......

also you mentioned that you apply "approx" 3 coats of Waterlox. What is the determining factor in how many coats you actually apply? Are you looking for a certain amount of build, etc.?

Thanks


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

The Lintungtane is equal parts linseed oil, pure tung oil and polyurethane. The best results I have experienced come from using Behlens pure tung oil and regular minwax poly. DO NOT use a tung oil finish. Those aren't pure tung oil. Mix at room temp and stir very well before each use.

For the waterlox I am looking for an even sheen and tone on the wood before I move on to the lintungtane. I want the surface to be mostly free of "dry spots" and I want it to be mostly streak free. 
It's worth noting here that by streak free I'm not talking about you're obvious rag marks. I mean looking very closely at every inch of the surface under a raking light, preferably sunlight. I thin the first coat and then build from there. Pay close attention to the pores of the wood, if they begin to look like the finish is sort of sloping into them or piling around them then you are applying the waterlox too heavily. This is happening at a near microscopic level so again dont just glance, get your face right down there and look closely. Between coats sand as previously mentioned and remove all sanding dust.

When you have achieved a consistent sheen you are ready to move on to lintungtane. Each wood takes a different amount of waterlox to get to this point. 

Get plenty of the Lintungtane on the surface and let it sit for a minute or so and then gently wipe it all off with the grain.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

TylerJones said:


> The Lintungtane is equal parts linseed oil, pure tung oil and polyurethane. The best results I have experienced come from using Behlens pure tung oil and regular minwax poly. DO NOT use a tung oil finish. Those aren't pure tung oil. Mix at room temp and stir very well before each use.
> 
> For the waterlox I am looking for an even sheen and tone on the wood before I move on to the lintungtane. I want the surface to be mostly free of "dry spots" and I want it to be mostly streak free.
> It's worth noting here that by streak free I'm not talking about you're obvious rag marks. I mean looking very closely at every inch of the surface under a raking light, preferably sunlight. I thin the first coat and then build from there. Pay close attention to the pores of the wood, if they begin to look like the finish is sort of sloping into them or piling around them then you are applying the waterlox too heavily. This is happening at a near microscopic level so again dont just glance, get your face right down there and look closely. Between coats sand as previously mentioned and remove all sanding dust.
> ...


TJ that is fantastic information. Thank you....I have got to try this........is BLO okay to use or pure linseed oil? Do you use a higher gloss poly and then reduce sheen or do you use more of a matte or satin poly with this perticular method?

For you last rub with nakagoop, is that a readily available product or is there something close and readily available that may be subsituted?

Thanks again:smile:


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

Chemmy, no Urishi in the goop. Frankly I recommend starting without it. I rarely use it and then only on table tops. I will go into detail about the goop but not right now. I've been working on a blog and Nakagoop and what I just went over is one of the posts I'll be putting up. 

You are right about being able to achieve a satin finish with rubbing compounds but there are problems with doing it that way. 

One of the first show pieces I ever built was done this way (pumice) and the finish on it is very flat. To this day people are drawn to that finish. At every show people just rub it and as how it looks like that. In short: it's a great finish. Obviously there, it lets the wood shine and not the glossy finish. 

The table top on that piece is made of Red Gum, and those of you familiar with the wood know that it is very close-grained. I tried the same finish on a walnut top and the results were drastically different. The pumice could get into the pores but once it was there it didn't abrade at all. So when the top was all cleaned up the finish lacked a consistent tone. I wasn't willing to fill the pores or to finish the piece until they were filled because that would defeat the whole purpose. 

In short the rubbing compounds have their place and I encourage experimentation with them, but they can't do everything. 

To answer your question about the lintungtane, It is extremely durable once cured. Water and alcohol resistance are great. I guarantee all of my finishes and have never gotten a call on one with this method. Waterlox is a great finish too and I would use it alone if I could get the same flawless coat from it.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

Tom, I would use a semi gloss poly, it gives you a satin finish when used this way. The waterlox will start at a 70 degree sheen but within a few weeks will settle to 55 which I believe is close to what the lintungtane comes out to. Read my above post about the goop. If the mix explained here doesn't satisfy you, PM me and I will do my best to explain the goop. Use the boiled linseed oil, any brand is fine.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

TylerJones said:


> Tom, I would use a semi gloss poly, it gives you a satin finish when used this way. The waterlox will start at a 70 degree sheen but within a few weeks will settle to 55 which I believe is close to what the lintungtane comes out to. Read my above post about the goop. If the mix explained here doesn't satisfy you, PM me and I will do my best to explain the goop. Use the boiled linseed oil, any brand is fine.


 
Thank you again sir......I am very grateful for all the incredible help and advice provided on this forum.

It sounds like in some cases you may not even be using the goop. I think i will experimnet without it and see how it goes. If need be i will PM you. That's for the offer.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

TylerJones said:


> Chemmy, no Urishi in the goop. Frankly I recommend starting without it. I rarely use it and then only on table tops. I will go into detail about the goop but not right now. I've been working on a blog and Nakagoop and what I just went over is one of the posts I'll be putting up.
> 
> You are right about being able to achieve a satin finish with rubbing compounds but there are problems with doing it that way.
> 
> ...


I agree TJ, i wouldn't even think of using it on an open grain type finish, it is meant more for a higher build finish that is pore filled for sure!! and again i agree "they cant do everything." but just like yours they have there purposes. What a lot of people don't seem to know is that you can buy many grits of stand alone abrasives from 60 grit to 12000, to use for hand rubbing the finish coats. Same idea as the pumice or RS, but this gives you a wider variety of sheens to come up with. Personally i stopped rubbing out finishes in the early 70's and went to off the gun sheens, but would still do if matching up a finish. I still used some rubbing methods for producing antique type affects [rub thru's, etc..] but the days were quickly changing, due to designers/archetects, etc., for the more uniform waxy or satin affects and others given by flatting agents. 

I was pretty positive the Urishi would not be the case unless you by chance had a temp controlled humidity chamber you lugged aroud with you from place to place lol. But not knowing "goop" man i just thought "maybe" lol

Thanks for all your advice on your products though. 

sincerely, 

chemmy


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

I have a quick followup question...

I have a few peices of test scraps onto which I have rubbed 3 applications of BLO/Naptha/Poly mixture. With each, all of the excess was wiped off and allowed to dry. 

My questions is, can I apply coats of Waterlox over these applications or will it not be compatible?

BTW...this is not related to the finishing process TJ outlined above...this is a sperate question relating to something I was merely curious about. .....lol

Thanks guys.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Tom5151 said:


> I have a quick followup question...
> 
> I have a few peices of test scraps onto which I have rubbed 3 applications of BLO/Naptha/Poly mixture. With each, all of the excess was wiped off and allowed to dry.
> 
> ...


HM............... i gave you the ingredients a oil content of waterlox, what do you think???? lol
:yes:


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

chemmy said:


> HM............... i gave you the ingredients a oil content of waterlox, what do you think???? lol
> :yes:


 
Making me think are you professor?...lol.....:yes:..I am guessing no......but wanted to make sure.....


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

TJ,
This sounds like a finish I want to use on custom slab pcs I'm currently working on. :thumbsup:

Being new to this type of finishing......What are you using to "rub" the waterlox back off ???? I'm assuming this is a squegee type process :blink::huh: and just filling the pores/grain ?!?

Does the waterlox (20 yrs since I've used any) come in one sheen ??? or which do you use??

Thanks in advance and also for the great info you've given already.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love,
Tim


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Tom5151 said:


> Making me think are you professor?...lol.....:yes:..I am guessing no......but wanted to make sure.....


 
so am i correct?...is it a NO?....lol


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Tom5151 said:


> so am i correct?...is it a NO?....lol


buzzzz....... time up, you picked the wrong door, Vanna show him what was behind door number two.......... lol

Ohhhhhh.... you could have had a "yes" !!!!!!!

Ted, tell him about the product:

Ok chemmy, well Tom, since the same oils your using in your formula are compatible with the ones in the incredible waterlox system - you could have used them. 

But unfortunately, since you guessed wrongly, even though you knew this, waterlox has forbid you to use their product ever again !!!!!!

Sorry tom, better luck next time. 

And now, who's are next contestant Ted??

Well chemmy............... here to play our game, ""Br-"oil" the brew"", From Tennessee is Tim, welcome Tim, so it says here that you have slabs you want to ruin, is that correct?, tell us more Tim......lol


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

chemmy said:


> buzzzz....... time up, you picked the wrong door, vanna show him what was behind door number two.......... lol
> 
> Ohhhhhh.... you could have had a "yes" !!!!!!!
> 
> ...


LOL...LOL.....:laughing::laughing:......that was excellent.....

but Ted, there is still time....I haven't put a topcoat on yet....so yes Ted, I will be applying Waterlox.....LOL......I am still laughing over here....good stuff....:thumbsup:


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

I use the original sealer/finish in the orange can. You apply this with a rubber, definitely don't try to wipe that off. The lintingtane you wipe on and then I wipe it off with the blue shop towels or some lint free rags.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

TylerJones said:


> I use the original sealer/finish in the orange can. You apply this with a rubber, definitely don't try to wipe that off. The lintingtane you wipe on and then I wipe it off with the blue shop towels or some lint free rags.


Tyler when you say you wipe it on with a "rubber" do you mean what I think you mean :blink:.......or is this some type of application tool that I just have not yet heard of?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

British for cloth made into a ball similiar to french polishing method but no shellac, also called pad, rubber, French - tampon, german -, Auflage.

Amazing how all these came to be names for womans or mens sundries huh? lol

Rubber [rubbing pad] has to do with the idea of rubbing the surface back and forth with finishing material.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

Haha yeah sorry for the confusion. As a note on making your own rubber, be sure to use only natural fiber cloth, I highly recommend wool for the inner ball and cotton for the outer wrap. I would be interested in hearing what others use...


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

TylerJones said:


> Haha yeah sorry for the confusion. As a note on making your own rubber, be sure to use only natural fiber cloth, I highly recommend wool for the inner ball and cotton for the outer wrap. I would be interested in hearing what others use...


Hey TJ, When i started out in 65 i was taught to use a wool inner pad, [usually a sock part or a sweater, etc., and fine linen [300 tpi or more] as the outer material/skin/wrap. After i was out on my own [72] i started using cotton batting and either linen [depending on the work] or high grade well washed cotton cloth [think baby diapers] for quick field work and touch up. 

About 80, when i got into conservation i returned to the old methods so to say, but changed the polish itself. From there i experimented with other cloths til I found a synthetic that i really liked and used that, much more often than the linen. At least for the bodying portion of the work. 

But then my own methods for building a "from scratch" filled pore friction polish are now much different than anyone else's i know of or have seen, lol. 

Actually that will be in my 2nd book, so enough for now, lol.

OHHH..... i think i'll call it ""chemmyscrazycottoflaxowoolyfrictopoli tamporubpad anti-goop solution"" lol


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

So far I have just been using a clean, lint free cotton cloth rolled up very tightly. I hope that's okay.

I do have a question though regarding just what is meant by "rubbing on a very thin coat". I am guessing that can be a very subjective thing so i wanted to ask what really is meant by that? 

Would the idea be just to rub on enough material to get the wood wet? Or would it be more so to lay on a coat of a mil or two and even it out with the cloth? For example, when I apply material with a brush the coat is much thicker and heavier as opposed to the ones i rub on which can essentially just get the wood wet?

Also, how much pressure should be exerted when rubbing on a thin coat? Is the idea to simply get material on the wood and then even it out with the cloth or is the idea more so to exert pressure so as to rub it into the wood? I assume this rubbing application should be done *with* the grain of the wood as opposed to circular motions as if one was applying wax? is that accurate?


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

I lay the first coat on heavy and then even it out(its thinned). The next coats of waterlox I just lay on just enough to wet the surface evenly and keep a wet edge. Don't try to go back. It dries too quickly and will streak.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

TJ, is that your "Lintungtane" on the pics of the walnut kitchen in your photo album? Or perhaps waterlox?


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Tom5151 said:


> LOL...LOL.....:laughing::laughing:......that was excellent.....
> 
> but Ted, there is still time....I haven't put a topcoat on yet....so yes Ted, I will be applying Waterlox.....LOL......I am still laughing over here....good stuff....:thumbsup:


Believe it or not I think I am actually liking the Waterlox on top of the PGT/Poly mix better than just straight Poly over it. The Ploy is just to plastic looking to me whereas the Waterlox (to my eye anyway) keeps the depth of the wood clear and looks more natural.....

I am still working on TJs approach and will hopefully have some results early next week. I am giving each coat 24 hours to dry so its taking a bit of time on that method.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Tom5151 said:


> Believe it or not I think I am actually liking the Waterlox on top of the PGT/Poly mix better than just straight Poly over it. The--> Ploy<-- is just to plastic looking to me whereas the Waterlox (to my eye anyway) keeps the depth of the wood clear and looks more natural.....
> 
> I am still working on TJs approach and will hopefully have some results early next week. I am giving each coat 24 hours to dry so its taking a bit of time on that method.


I'm not real fond of "PLOY" either Tom, poly on the other hand is good if you want that deep clear plastic look, lol. [see above]

I have nothing against waterlock per se' it's all in what your trying to acheive. I used to get a similiar look with tung and a coat of cat vinyl sealer for oil look finishes in mass production that you would have a hard time telling from any other close to the wood finish. And since it's for your pleasure, I'd try everything and then make up your mind.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

chemmy said:


> I'm not real fond of "PLOY" either Tom, poly on the other hand is good if you want that deep clear plastic look, lol. [see above]
> 
> I have nothing against waterlock per se' it's all in what your trying to acheive. I used to get a similiar look with tung and a coat of cat vinyl sealer for oil look finishes in mass production that you would have a hard time telling from any other close to the wood finish. And since it's for your pleasure, I'd try everything and then make up your mind.


LOL......in addition to not being able to tell my butt from my elbow when it comes to finishing......I can't spell worth a crap either....:laughing:

What I am trying to do is get a close to the wood finish that comes out with a matte/eggshell sheen and is highly durable. I have been following the good advice here and am applying a high gloss poly over my PGT/Poly initial coat, just to keep things as crystal clear as possible. Now my challenge with the "POLY" (lol) is getting it down to a matte sheen without making it look dull and cloudy.

What I am finding with the Waterlox topcoat (also on top of the PGT/Poly) is that the sheen is greatly reduced (which i expected) but i still need to find a good way to matte this down without dulling it and making it all cloudy.

I'll keep playing......:thumbsup:


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Tom5151 said:


> LOL......in addition to not being able to tell my butt from my elbow when it comes to finishing......I can't spell worth a crap either....:laughing:
> 
> What I am trying to do is get a close to the wood finish that comes out with a matte/eggshell sheen and is highly durable. I have been following the good advice here and am applying a high gloss poly over my PGT/Poly initial coat, just to keep things as crystal clear as possible. Now my challenge with the "POLY" (lol) is getting it down to a matte sheen without making it look dull and cloudy.
> 
> ...


Play away tom, that's really what it's all about at the beginning, coming up with looks you like and are durable. 

Thank gawd ewe well neber see me mizbell enknee wurds awn heer!!:yes:


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

What are some methods for rubbing a finish to a matte or satin sheen?

I have rubbed out / polished finishes before with progressively finer grits of sandpaper and lubricant. The finish was very nice, smooth as glass and very shiny. I am looking for a good method for ending up with a satin/matte sheen with a lot of lustre (not shine).

I have read about pumice, rottenstone, 3M compounds, etc. but wanted to know what would be technicque for a novice finisher to start out with.

Thanks.


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## mcmBen (May 9, 2011)

walseb2555- Talk to your ML Campbell rep about KlearVar. It has a bit less solid content than Krystal does, same catalyst as krystal and will be very similar process to apply as krystal. The KlearVar holds tighter to the grain than krystal does. It gives more of a "furniture
grade finish" than cabinetry finish but give exceptional cabinet grade finish durability. I have not personally used it, but I just took a class by MLC and they talked about the KlearVar.


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