# Box Elder vase



## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Here is a box elder vase that I turned a couple months ago. The finish is CA. The interior was coated with Minwax wood filler and then a saw blade was used to create the illusion of a rough clay scratch pattern similar to the interior of a pottery vase and then it was sprayed with Krylon stone texture to complete the illusion.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Very nice, great high-gloss finish. (Also, that's the biggest piece I've ever seen finished with CA!)


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

duncsuss said:


> Very nice, great high-gloss finish. (Also, that's the biggest piece I've ever seen finished with CA!)



Thanks. I heard somewhere that the red in box elder won't fade to brown if finished with CA. I have my doubts, but figured that I would test it anyway. I will let everybody know if ten years or so if that is true. :icon_smile:


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Nice vase Bill.
I never heard about the ca finish keeping it from fading. I don't think the wood really knows what it's wearing. Try keeping it out of direct sunlight. I think the red just fades over time.
Mike Hawkins


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

firehawkmph said:


> Nice vase Bill.
> I never heard about the ca finish keeping it from fading. I don't think the wood really knows what it's wearing. Try keeping it out of direct sunlight. I think the red just fades over time.
> Mike Hawkins



Thanks, Mike. I think that you are right -- red is one of those colors that looks for any old excuse to fade out.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Beautiful piece. Nice work


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## Hwood (Oct 21, 2011)

That's a lot of ca. I think its safe to assume you have a well ventilated shop. I didn't know the red faded. bummer. nice work by the way


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Dominick said:


> Beautiful piece. Nice work





Hwood said:


> That's a lot of ca. I think its safe to assume you have a well ventilated shop. I didn't know the red faded. bummer. nice work by the way


Thanks for the comments, guys. Actually, I found that StarBond has an accelerator that prevents the CA from fuming. It was recommended by Alan Trout who is well known for making pieces finished with CA. Even so, I still do this outdoors and with my back to the wind. The secret is to just make a single quick swipe with a CA soaked folded piece of paper towel -- then toss it on the ground and then spray accelerator on the piece. Fold up another piece of paper towel and soak one corner with CA -- quickly make a single swipe and toss the paper towel.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

On the coatings topic, I have been wanting to experiment with some of the table-top epoxy resin polymer products. I have some waiting in my garage right now...shoudl I skip it or will it give a nice gloss similar to what you got with the CA?


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

As far as I know CA doesn't have any UV inhibitors. I didn't try CA in my test but did try many other finishes to see if any of them would stop the red from fading. None did. Keep it out of direct light is the only option I found. 
Getting a glossy finish is not difficult. Almost any finish will work. You simply have to apply enough finish to fill in all pores or tiny defects in the wood. Then level the finish and polish it to a glass shine. 
Epoxy is a quick method for building but takes a lot of care to level it. If you spin the piece while it's curing it helps level the finish. The easiest high gloss finish I have found it Birchwood Casey's true oil. You can get it an most outdoor stores that sell guns. Walmart used to carry it. You apply a coat let it dry overnight. Then steel wool it down with 4/0 until all you see is the gloss in the pores. Keep doing this everyday until you steel wool it down and everything looks matt. Then just apply one more coat. Usually takes me about 7 or so coats with this finish. 
Other high build finishes such as lacquer and shellac I usually have to level it with 600 grit for several coats after the initial build. Once it's level I use automotive polishes to get the final glass coat look.
I even did it on a rifle with boiled linseed oil. It took 75 coats. Won't do that again but the gun finish is now about 15 years old and still looks good. Not as glossy as it used to because I actually do use that rifle.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

JohnInTexas said:


> On the coatings topic, I have been wanting to experiment with some of the table-top epoxy resin polymer products. I have some waiting in my garage right now...shoudl I skip it or will it give a nice gloss similar to what you got with the CA?


The CA finish is about as opposite from the epoxy table top resins as you could possible find as far as application is concerned. The CA is the super thin variety, requires a lot of applications to build the final smooth finish, and sets in less than a minute. The epoxy is very viscous so it is slow to level out and cures slowly by design so that all the tiny air bubbles have time to reach the surface before it cures. Epoxy continues to out gas for a long time after it has hardened and all epoxies yellow over time, even the supposedly clear ones.

I wouldn't recommend CA as a finish for anyone not interested in it being the major component of making something in terms of both time and effort. One nice thing about the fast curing CA is that it has minimal impact on darken light woods in comparison to other finishes including water based finishes. As John said, you can get a high gloss with many types of finishes. My favorite is Deft lacquer in a rattle can since my air compressor can't keep up with my HVLP airbrush. However, lacquer is softer than CA and doesn't seem to be able to be polished to the same high gloss as CA.

I think that trying to apply the epoxy table top finish would wind up being a total disaster on a turning or anything that is not flat and gravity level. Given that it is very thick and very slow curing, it is going to run like crazy on anything round. Rotating the piece while it is curing will only change the direction of the running to the widest diameter.

I try to choose a finish for a piece that fits an overall theme. So, it needs a better reason for being beyond something nebulous like having a preference for a glossy or oiled finish. In this case, I was emulating a fired pottery vase where both the interior treatment and exterior ceramic gloss look were important to the overall illusion. Some people who picked it up thought that it was ceramic painted to look like wood. I originally planned to use a lacquer finish, but there were some soft areas in the wood that needed strengthening so CA sort of sneaked in through the back door as far as being the finish of choice was concerned. This piece started out as a proof-of-concept experiment, but it turned out well enough to be a keeper.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks Bill and John for sharing the info on finishes!


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm going to Chattanooga one of these days before too long to take a class on epoxy finishing. My friend Ed Lewis has been doing it for years so I'll fill everyone in on what he things. 
Lacquer isn't probably as hard as CA but then it stays flexible enough to not crack with the wood. I haven't had any trouble getting an extrememly glossy finish when I want. I do use a commercial grade instead in Deft. I found deft to be too soft. Haven't used the rattle can laquers.


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## calcnerd (Dec 7, 2012)

Beautiful! I love FBE. 

A note on finishing...I'm not sure if it's true but a guy at my local Woodcraft said that this new wood bleaching product they sell is supposed to keep the red from fading. I forget what the brand is, but it's a 2 part finish and it's supposed to make the whites whiter and the colors brighter (I guess like color safe laundry bleach?).


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

john lucas said:


> .... I do use a commercial grade instead in Deft. I found deft to be too soft. Haven't used the rattle can laquers.


Our club buys professional pre-cat lacquer in rattle cans. I usually get some except most people want to get the satin type rather than gloss.



calcnerd said:


> Beautiful! I love FBE.
> 
> A note on finishing...I'm not sure if it's true but a guy at my local Woodcraft said that this new wood bleaching product they sell is supposed to keep the red from fading. I forget what the brand is, but it's a 2 part finish and it's supposed to make the whites whiter and the colors brighter (I guess like color safe laundry bleach?).


Thanks. I also love FBE. It is hard to find around here.

The Woodcraft thing sounds more like a laundry soap commercial than a wood treatment. :laughing:


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Bill Boehme said:


> Our club buys professional pre-cat lacquer in rattle cans. I usually get some except most people want to get the satin type rather than gloss.


Bill, can you gather details on this lacquer please? I'd like to suggest it to the members of the club I go to, so the brand and variety (plus, if possible, the source vendor). Thanks!


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Bleach doesn't stop the red from fading. It enhances it slightly but only because it bleaches the lighter wood lighter so the red appears to have more contrast. From my experience it bleaches the lighter wood but not the red or the tan colors that appear in Box Elder.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Texas Timber used to be the forum expert on box elder. Perhaps he is still around some place.
johnep


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

johnep34 said:


> Texas Timber used to be the forum expert on box elder. Perhaps he is still around some place.
> johnep


Yup ... he's known as Kevin (a.k.a. "admin", "site owner", etc.) over on Woodbarter.com


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

duncsuss said:


> Bill, can you gather details on this lacquer please? I'd like to suggest it to the members of the club I go to, so the brand and variety (plus, if possible, the source vendor). Thanks!


It used to be a Krylon product called OMNI-PAK MasterBlend EZ TOUCH, which was basically a precharged can that was then filled with the specialty product, in this case pre-cat lacquer and pre-cat sealer. A few years ago, they sold that line and it is now called Finish Repair, but you can still get the same pre-cat lacquer and pre-cat sealer from the new manufacturer. They are in Maiden, North Carolina -- web site is *www.touchupsolutions.com* and phone is 1-877-346-4747.

Here is a picture -- the old package on the left and new on the right.









I took a picture large enough to real the writing on the cans, but had to shrink it down to fit the image size limit here. Not sure that it is still legible.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Bill Boehme said:


> Not sure that it is still legible.


Thanks, Bill - I think I've got it, but navigating their site is torture :blink:


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

duncsuss said:


> Thanks, Bill - I think I've got it, but navigating their site is torture :blink:


Ain't that the truth. Maybe downloading their catalog would be better or phoning them. I will see if somebody in my club can tell me how to find the products that we buy from them. I think that the minimum order is one case which is probably 24 cans.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Here is a close-up of the sticker that says what product is inside the can.


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