# why do you use hand tools?



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

Do you all have a reason for using hand tools?

Of course I like the idea of developing a skill and using a router and a million jigs really takes that away. 

But I like how much more connected I have to be with the environment. I have to pay attention to the wood like a living thing and not just a hunk of plastic. 

Like...say I was making a joint. I could just cut up some wood with a table saw and use liquid nails on two pieces of it and clamp it. 

I could ignore how seasoned the piece is, what species it is, what the growth was like, and what direction the grain is going,

But if I do hand done mortise and tenon joinery I have to consider all of these. I'll know how difficult it will be to cut, what saw to use when cutting each grain direction. I have to pay attention to how my chisel will take off the unwanted parts. I have to think about how tight i want the joint and in which direction i can create pressure to not split the wood. If i'm not using glue i could even make my mortised piece greener than my tenoned piece. 

to use machines and routers makes me think of mass industrial farming that disregards everything about the earth and very specific local adaptation and knowledge and just planting everything in huge monoculture crops and dousing everything with the same chemicals from south carolina to southern california. 

it really irks me when thinking about using a million power tools. 

also, something about using biscuit joints almost makes my stomach turn.


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

"it really irks me when thinking about using a million power tools. 

also, something about using biscuit joints almost makes my stomach turn."

I think that you are posting on the wrong forum. While most people on here have and use hand tools, they are also practical. Power tools are a necessity for the commercial wood worker.

George


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

johnmark said:


> Do you all have a reason for using hand tools?


Could be a few reasons...Just spur of the moment urge. Or, the procedure would be better done with hand tools. Or, the power may be off.


johnmark said:


> Like...say I was making a joint. I could just cut up some wood with a table saw and use liquid nails on two pieces of it and clamp it.


Liquid Nails???
...You were doing so well up to this point.









 







.


----------



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

using liquid nails would be a method i would never ever do.


----------



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> "it really irks me when thinking about using a million power tools.
> 
> also, something about using biscuit joints almost makes my stomach turn."
> 
> ...


i could get into a critique of looking at trees in an indirect supply/demand way. 

they are practical in terms of money, not environment.


----------



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> I think that you are posting on the wrong forum.
> 
> George


also, is agreeance the only way to discuss?


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

johnmark said:


> Do you all have a reason for using hand tools?
> 
> it really irks me when thinking about using a million power tools.


This is a hand tool forum, so you would expect that the readers all have reasons to use hand tools.

Woodworking is a hobby for me, but I like to use whatever method will work for me.

I have several hand planes. I will use in some cases because they can do a job faster/easier than a power tool, some because they can do a job for which I do not have a power tool.

I have a brace, but I use my drill press for drilling holes. Faster, more accurate. I use by brace for countersinking. Faster and more control, so in this case a hand tool is better for me.

I have a lathe. I have seen foot powered lathes. I respect the people who use them, but I would not want to have to use one.

I have a small cross cut saw. I use it for cutting pieces which are too small to cut on the table saw or bandsaw.

If I have a board to rip, I will use the table saw. Fast, and accurate.

I enjoy my hand tools, especially the planes. However, if I need to plane a rough sawn board, I will use the power planer. Faster and more accurate.

If I want to clean up a tenon cut on the power tools, I will use the hand planes and or chisels.

I use my hand tools more than in the past, but for me the hand tools compliment my power tools.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

johnmark said:


> I could just cut up some wood with a table saw and use liquid nails on two pieces of it and clamp it.





johnmark said:


> using liquid nails would be a method i would never ever do.


What????








 







.


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> What????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He was providing a theoretical compare and contrast. 


For me, hand tools are a necessity. I dont have the $ or space for power tools, othe than th portable variety. (I have power mitre jig circular saws, portable belt and orbital sanders handheld drill and a router. Also a drill press but that's not set up). So if I want a flat board, planes are the only option. I tend to use handsaws during the week when the kids are sleeping and also to reduce dust in the shared workspace. Right ow i o ly use the router for the most Basic of operations due to safety concerns i know how to use one safely in theory but want to spend plenty of time crawling before i try to walk or run. When I move into new space I will get power tools that will permit me to make projects at a rate greater than one every nine months, which is pretty much where I am now, based on the amount of time I have to devote to it. 

I also think its a good way for me to start out for some of the reasons you mentioned. Using hand tools I am forced to pay attention to the properties of the wood that I may otherwise ignore, and the knowledge learned will apply to all lfuture work regardless of the chosen tools.


----------



## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

For the most part woodworking is a hobby for me. Unfortunately for the last year or so most of the projects I have done are "have to" projects.(my least favorite type) Some were promised by wife...some were paid...some were favors. These type of projects get done with whatever tool makes the job fast and easy. When I get to do what I want, I use a lot of hand tools for pure enjoyment. Those projects are less about the end destination and more about the voyage.


----------



## Bonka (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't make mistakes as fast with hand tools.


----------



## MagGeorge (Jul 5, 2012)

It is a good feeling to have your hands sweat it out!


----------



## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

A router is a hand tool, just happens to have a cord on it :laughing: So is my Skil saw, my jig saw, my drill. I learned to woodwork with primarily power tools. I am now learning the intricacies of hand tools. Partly from the fact that they leave a better finish, partly from some twisted romantic idea that I should learn the old ways, partly from the standpoint of putting the sweat equity, partly because it gives me a reason to buy more tools, partly because...


----------



## Jsanders44 (Sep 14, 2012)

Well JohnMark, I gotta tell you, I am on the same page as you my friend! You are definitely not on the wrong forum, where there is wood, there be tools. Where there be tools, there be hand tools! Ok, Pandoras box is open and everybody wants to get the job done yesterday with every new fangled device and machine that ever rears it's head... but amongst all the chaos of the advertising campaigns by the machine manufacturers, spare a thought for the craftsmen whose work is still around today, though they passed away many generations ago. No biscuits, pocket hole jigs, no thin veneers over minced up glue and sawdust. Just simple strong joints in solid wood. Lovely. 
Once guys actually have a go at a nice hand cut piece of furniture, that lure of tranquility and satisfaction does it for some. I have to say that donkeywork is best done on machines, unless you are mad keen on a really sweaty workout with a coarse rip saw, or a 30inch wooden try plane! Ha Ha! John.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

*Why do you use hand tools?*

Because I can:yes:


----------



## gideon (May 26, 2010)

I have extremely limited space so hand planes are a must. They also eliminate the need for several grits of sanding so thats a plus too.

I use a biscuit joiner. What's your beef with them? They are awesome for aligning material in glue ups.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

While I fully agree biscuits / plate jointers are useless I do see both sides of the coin.

There was a time when labor was cheap, hand tools were very much applicable because that was simply the only option. Now days labor is incredible expensive (in relative terms) so faster = greater bottom dollar for the guy trying to compete and feed his family.

I chose to use hand tools, almost exclusively, because I enjoy them but also primarily because it's a skill set that would be lost and forever forgotten were it not for knuckle heads like us to keep it alive. I am a very big proponent to history as well as self reliance and hand tooling fits that model very well. I also enjoy the education aspect of it, teaching a new skill to others is very rewarding.


----------



## ntrusty (Feb 21, 2012)

I use both but I enjoy hand tools more. Im also more likely to stop myself from cutting off an appendage if im the power source. Sure i can use a router to do stuff quickly and i do often however the way i see it, you gain a clearer understanding of the process. To me the better i am with handtools the better i become with powertools.


----------



## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I use hand tools for the following reasons:

1. I did not want to spend the money for the high quality power tools that I would want. 
2. I don't like the noise of power tools. The sound of a well sharpened hand plane or hand saw is; however, a true joy. 
3. I need to learn and feel how furniture was made 200 years ago. 
4. Wood working is for me a creative way for me to spend my days in retirement. If I used power tools, I would increase my productivity; but that is not important to me.


----------



## mwohltman (Sep 17, 2012)

I am an early beginner. I am starting with a small utility table, but I'm using it as an opportunity to learn as there are lots of projects I can do for our home. I am a little uncomfortable buying a lot of power tools seeing I have no idea how far I will go with this. I'd also be very concerned about safety and I won't even get into space. I'm in a two car garage regularly used for two cars.

I am a little bit surprised how many different tools I need. For instance, i had no idea I'd need 3 bench planes and a block. Here is the thing though. It seems like even those on power tools actually need most of the same tools. For instance, they can use a power jointer, but they will still need a jointer plane. They can route a groove but i've heard youtube clips saying how they should still use a router plane to guarantee an even depth.

So right now as a beginner I feel like that as I learn skills and a acquire tools, they will not be unnecessary if i later acquire more power tools. For now, it's just my circular saw.


----------



## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Because I have no power or my batteries are flat or it is my only option

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

I started with power tools and started to learn to use hand tools when I discovered that there were things that I wanted to do that you just cannot do or cannot do very well with power tools. I was startled to discover that I preferred to use my hand tools. I enjoyed the quiet. I liked the fact that now I can spend a lot of the time I used to spend worrying about safety thinking about how to do the job at hand. 
Now I am becoming comfortable with both power tools and hand tools and I have discovered that I now think differently about each step in the process of building something. If I need to get four 18" x 4" pieces out of a board, it is quicker to rip a long piece with a hand saw, trim up the cut with a plane and then do the cross cuts with a hand saw. If I need forty pieces, my table saw might be quicker. Or, if I have just gone through the process of setting my tablesaw up to do rabbets and then discover that I need to rip two more pieces, it is so much simpler and easier to just use my handsaws and not try to find that perfect setting again. And if I rip a board either by hand or on my table saw and then discover that it is a 32nd of an inch too wide, it is both quicker and easier to mark it, clamp it to my bench and take off the extra with my Siegley #7 bench plane. PLUS, if I am careful about the grain, I probably won't have to sand the piece later.

Some operations are actually more difficult to accomplish with power tools. I use my drill press all the time, but it was the wrong tool to use to cut the dog holes when I built a workbench because it is so difficult to support a 6' x 3' x 3' piece of lumber and move it through the drill press. Easier by far to clamp the piece down, lay out the dog holes and then use a brace and bit. And once that the bench is built and some dog holes need to be added, a brace and bit is the only way to go.

So hand tools have not just brought safety and tranquility to my shop: they also provide a whole set of new ways to address each step of the build process.


----------



## gideon (May 26, 2010)

mwohltman said:


> I am an early beginner. I am starting with a small utility table, but I'm using it as an opportunity to learn as there are lots of projects I can do for our home. I am a little uncomfortable buying a lot of power tools seeing I have no idea how far I will go with this. I'd also be very concerned about safety and I won't even get into space. I'm in a two car garage regularly used for two cars.
> 
> I am a little bit surprised how many different tools I need. For instance, i had no idea I'd need 3 bench planes and a block. Here is the thing though. It seems like even those on power tools actually need most of the same tools. For instance, they can use a power jointer, but they will still need a jointer plane. They can route a groove but i've heard youtube clips saying how they should still use a router plane to guarantee an even depth.
> 
> So right now as a beginner I feel like that as I learn skills and a acquire tools, they will not be unnecessary if i later acquire more power tools. For now, it's just my circular saw.


YOu honestly don't "need" a whole lot of power tools to get started. As far as power tools go, I get the bulk of my work done with a folding contractors table saw, a router with fixed, plunge bases and an edge guide, random orbit sander, decent circular saw with various fences and some hand tools. I do have a jointer which I use rarely as I purchase the bulk of material surfaced 3 sides (S3S). 

I have handplanes which I use frequently, my chisels, squares and other layout and set up tools but you can most of these things reasonably too.
And you can do a whole lot with your circular saw with a rip and crosscut blade.

Yes, there's an investment factor but it wasn't that bad for me.


----------



## Evilfrog (Aug 2, 2011)

Less noise and less dust. I can use them in my basement shop.


----------



## Wheeler (Sep 27, 2012)

My only power tool that gets used everyday is my table saw. I use hand tools to build virtually everything. I am slower with hand tools, granted, but the end result is ultra fine and my joints are always strong. Working with power tools on expensive wood makes me nervous, just a fraction of a mm out and you could be left with a little gap. Sometimes that's fine but sometimes it's not.

Noise... Hand tools are so quiet, that is why and always will be why I'll never be a nut for power tools :0


----------



## Calzone (May 15, 2012)

Well, there's a multitude of reasons.

I'm in a woodworking class, and I'm behind six skeetering slowpokes waiting and waiting all day long.
I had the choice to do that and not get anything done, or try out hand tools.
So I just got into them. And I did them more and more and more, and It has really shown me a true passion and love for the craft as well as the skill. It makes me appreciate all the furniture of generations past.

And it's just so satisfying running your hand across a smooth planed tabletop, and then feeling a surface sanded to hell and back.

Right now, it's just what does the job right for me.


----------



## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

the reason I use hand tools is because Im to lazy to push all the buttons and pull the levers lol


----------



## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

A lot of my clients want a traditional craftsman... Which to them means that I simply don't use power tools... My woodworking skills are actually better with hand tools than with power tools. I only use a router and a table saw for speed and ripping large boards / sheets.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

lawrence said:


> the reason I use hand tools is because Im to lazy to push all the buttons and pull the levers lol


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Thats just down right funny!

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Gary0855 (Aug 3, 2010)

I once made a open cabinet with two plate shelves, a nice valance, and a 1/4" plate groove in each shelf.

I thought, "I'll make my Grandfather proud and do it all by hand". Did the curved valance by hand, and the 1/4" groove with a 1/4" chisel.

When I was done I thought I heard my Grandfather say "Idiot, you had a table saw and you used a 1/4" chisel"

Now I have never met my Grandfather, He died before I was born, but I never forgot his lesson of using what does the job best.


----------



## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I use hand tools because I can't afford the power tools. And often the hands on work is more fun.


----------



## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

I guess most things could be done with hand tools but how do you get a shaped edge without using a router?


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> I guess most things could be done with hand tools but how do you get a shaped edge without using a router?


As in moulding? With moulding planes, combinations planes or a scratch stock. Simple chamfers and round overs can be done with a block plane.

EDIT: 
Added a couple pics to illustrate.


----------



## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> I guess most things could be done with hand tools but how do you get a shaped edge without using a router?


Almost every power tool used in the modern shop is designed to do a job that was once done by hand. In almost every case, the power tool does it more quickly but not necessarily better and often not safer. Power tools have their place, but too many people try to use them for everything, even for jobs where hand tools are clearly the better choice. Case in point: cutting dowels. I see articles in the woodworking mags with a title like "Safest Jig For Cutting Dowel Rods On Your Tablesaw." Two nicked fingers later, I realized that the safest way to cut dowel rods is with a bench hook and a back saw. Period. 

Now when I need to do something, I often ask myself how my Grandfather might have done it. In the case of shaping edges, Granddad would have used wooden molding planes built for the job just like router bits are today. Some of those molding planes are still around, but new woodworkers don't find out about that until long after they have invested in a router or two and a basic load of router bits.


----------



## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm one of them. Never knew, although common sense "should" have prevailed since our forefathers obviously had a means of doing it. I was foolish enough to only consider the ultra detailed stuff when I asked that question, thinking that each tiny detail was carved by hand. Didn't even consider round overs and other long but simply curved edge patterns. What's worse is that the average router won't even do the stuff I was thinking of at the time either. They say there is no dumb question, but some are awfully close.


----------



## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> I'm one of them. Never knew, although common sense "should" have prevailed since our forefathers obviously had a means of doing it. I was foolish enough to only consider the ultra detailed stuff when I asked that question, thinking that each tiny detail was carved by hand. Didn't even consider round overs and other long but simply curved edge patterns. What's worse is that the average router won't even do the stuff I was thinking of at the time either. They say there is no dumb question, but some are awfully close.


There ARE NO dumb questions. BUT sometimes we ask a question and feel dumb when we hear the answer. In many cases, and this may be one of them, that feeling should be ignored. Sometimes we are conditioned to think about things one way and no other. Example: we buy and use commercial cleaning products that we have seen on TV and most people just think that Windex is how we clean window glass. Our great grandparents cleaned windows and they didn't have Windex. How did they do it? It turns out that you can make your own glass cleaner (1 cup water, one cup rubbing alcohol and one tablespoon white vinegar). Costs about 10% the cost of Windex and works better. Yet we have come to think of Windex as the only way to get windows clean.

Same thing happened in woodworking. After WWII machines became available that did jobs we have always done by hand and now most people think that's how the task must be done. Dirty dishes? Pop them in the dishwasher. Need to cut the end off a board? Push it through a table saw. That's how it's done.


----------



## Rwelch (Mar 11, 2012)

firemedic said:


> While I fully agree biscuits / plate jointers are useless I do see both sides of the coin.
> 
> There was a time when labor was cheap, hand tools were very much applicable because that was simply the only option. Now days labor is incredible expensive (in relative terms) so faster = greater bottom dollar for the guy trying to compete and feed his family.
> 
> I chose to use hand tools, almost exclusively, because I enjoy them but also primarily because it's a skill set that would be lost and forever forgotten were it not for knuckle heads like us to keep it alive. I am a very big proponent to history as well as self reliance and hand tooling fits that model very well. I also enjoy the education aspect of it, teaching a new skill to others is very rewarding.


Let me first say that i love hand tools. i have quite an extensive collection an use them for every project. But, why would you consider biscuit jointers useless? I find them very useful at aligning face frames on a cabinet and use them for aligning large panel glue-ups. Certainly they are not necessary but can definitely make a job go faster.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Like I said, I understand why they are used however they are pointless for furniture. For the record I don't consider plywood suitable for furniture. 

When it come to cabinets (plywood) by all means - fill em up with biscuits and pocket screws! :smile:

Biscuits add no value of strength to a long grain joint. They are a poor alternative to options for end grain to long grain joints and are horribly useless for end grain to end grain joints.

Pocket screws are much the same. They also disregard wood movement - not an issue for plywood. 

So as I said, I see both sides but there is no place for them in my shop. 

btw, I do have a plate jointer... I wouldn't knock anything without trying it :smile: I'd be more than happy to part with it if anyone wants it. It's a Freud.


----------



## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Fire medic, are you selling it?


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Sure, send me a PM so as to no hijack this thread.


----------



## Rwelch (Mar 11, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Like I said, I understand why they are used however they are pointless for furniture. For the record I don't consider plywood suitable for furniture.
> 
> When it come to cabinets (plywood) by all means - fill em up with biscuits and pocket screws! :smile:
> 
> ...


Plywood not suitable for furniture? I will have to respectfully disagree. Fine furniture, maybe not but, for most furniture I find it absolutely necessary. As with biscuit (plate) jointers they are an alignment tool and while not adding strength to a long grain joint they certainly help during glue-ups. Useless as a joinery, absolutely.


----------



## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Rwelch said:


> Plywood not suitable for furniture? I will have to respectfully disagree. Fine furniture, maybe not but, for most furniture I find it absolutely necessary. .


What sort of furniture do you build? Could you post some pictures?


----------



## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I wrote a longer post about this here. This is the short version.

For me, it's a question of speed and comfort. In a lot of cases, I just find unpowered tools to be FASTER. If I need to cut a dozen pieces exactly the same, then yes, a power tool and a jig is going to be simpler. But... well, here's an example. I had a piece I needed to duplicate. It was just hair thinner than a 2x4, and about a quarter inch narrower. Now, I could have set up the table saw to make the cut, or the band saw, but that takes time. Instead, I pulled out a #5 hand plane. At a heavy cut, it was about 4-5 passes to cut it to width, plus one more for smoothing at a very light cut. That same light cut a few times over the wider face got it to the right thickness. Total elapsed time, three or four minutes. It also took about 30 seconds to cut it to length.


Ahhh... but then I needed to punch three holes in it. One was big (3/4"), but the other two were small -- about 5/16. For those, I stuck the appropriate bits in my drill press, and had each done in a few seconds.

So which was more efficient? In the case of dimensioning, for that project, I found a hand plane and a hand saw to be the fastest. For drilling, power tools were clearly faster and cleaner than hand tools for this project. It's a continuum. I don't think either way is inherently superior in all cases; it's just a matter of what's most efficient at any given moment. 

(That said: I hate my table saw, and I'm not a big fan of power tools for most things. I'd far rather spend an hour with a hand saw than 5 minutes with a circular saw most of the time. But then, I'm a hobbyist... I'm not getting paid to be fast.)


----------



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

Yeah. For efficiency to produce mass amounts of things so we can keep up with ikea prices, it's a necessity. 

Pretty much all industry is being taken by efficiency and machinery. But in the process we lose a lot. 

Disconnection from our customers, disconnection from the earth, disconnect from our own bodies, loss of skill, loss of patience, lost sense of community...etc.

This happens in music, farming, wood working, the clothing industry, etc.


----------



## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

johnmark said:


> Yeah. For efficiency to produce mass amounts of things so we can keep up with ikea prices, it's a necessity.
> 
> Pretty much all industry is being taken by efficiency and machinery. But in the process we lose a lot.
> 
> ...


You sound like William Morris and his followers in the Arts and Crafts movement 150 years ago.


----------



## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

Bonka said:


> I don't make mistakes as fast with hand tools.


 
I'll have to say, that is a great answer, even though I can mess up pretty fast with one slip with either, I've had "oooops" moments with hand tools and power tools that didn't take long to ruin a chunk of wood


----------



## Rob Brown (Jul 7, 2009)

*hand tools*

I cut down my own trees and slice them up on a steam powered saw mill, once a year. It only makes sense that anything I make or build should be done in the most self reliant way. The more hand tools are involved in my projects-the better. And people are awed when you tell them the story and show them a nice flat board that you did by hand. You don't even have to build anything. Just show them the nice flat board.!!!


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Rob Brown said:


> I cut down my own trees and slice them up on a steam powered saw mill, once a year. It only makes sense that anything I make or build should be done in the most self reliant way. The more hand tools are involved in my projects-the better. And people are awed when you tell them the story and show them a nice flat board that you did by hand. You don't even have to build anything. Just show them the nice flat board.!!!


Well, now ya messed up! Now I got to see this saw mill!!! PICTURES!!!

:yes::yes::smile::yes::yes:


----------



## Rob Brown (Jul 7, 2009)

*sawmill photos*

I don't have any photos on hand, but there are a couple of photos of the mill on the club website. It is the Northern Illinois Steam Power Club. We have pictures from several of the recent years, but you have to scan through all of the tractor pics to see them. Look at pics from the 2011 show. Sorry, but I wasn't in any of them. The mill dates to early 1900's and I believe it is a rack and pinion type. The logs rests on a tram that goes back and forth over the blade. It's a great place for me to spend 4 of my vacation days every year and get my logs cut up in the process !!


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'll have to google the club. I would guess it's a sash saw - how many blades?... Or is it a circ mill?


----------



## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Just slid in the door. I'm a wood carver with hand tools. 
I'm building more and more of them to get what I need.
I have a bunch of power tools = most days, they go too fast and derail my thinking.
Commonly, I begin with a shake block of western red cedar, about 6" x 8" x 24".
I split out whatever I want with a log mallet and a froe. +/- 1/8".
Smooth with a 2-handed, Haida-style planer knife and add a drawing.
Fret cuts with hand saws and then the bashing begins.


----------



## Tilaran (Dec 22, 2012)

johnmark said:


> Do you all have a reason for using hand tools?
> 
> Of course I like the idea of developing a skill and using a router and a million jigs really takes that away.
> 
> ...


In that case you should have written this reply on hemp paper with a quill and ink and mailed it in.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Have you ever considered that your hand tools are are probably machine made? Delivered to you by mechanized transport using petroleum based road surfaces? Do you own a car? Do you have electric lights or use candles for lighting? Gas, electric or wood stove? Spinning wheel and hand sewn clothing? Air conditioning or servants waving palm fronds?

I wouldn't be so concerned about the environmental impact of using power tools.


----------



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

Rob Brown said:


> I cut down my own trees and slice them up on a steam powered saw mill, once a year. It only makes sense that anything I make or build should be done in the most self reliant way. The more hand tools are involved in my projects-the better. And people are awed when you tell them the story and show them a nice flat board that you did by hand. You don't even have to build anything. Just show them the nice flat board.!!!



nice. I hope to someday have a forest to look after.


----------



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> Have you ever considered that your hand tools are are probably machine made? Delivered to you by mechanized transport using petroleum based road surfaces? Do you own a car? Do you have electric lights or use candles for lighting? Gas, electric or wood stove? Spinning wheel and hand sewn clothing? Air conditioning or servants waving palm fronds?
> 
> I wouldn't be so concerned about the environmental impact of using power tools.


i don't have a car or A/C and some hand made clothing.

boom. foot out of mouth.

the environment is one aspect, but there are several others too.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I don't have a car either. I have a 4WD SUV. I would love to be able to be able to use public transportation and/or my bikes to commute to work. I just haven't figured out a way to transport my tools and equipment to the job site using the bus.

I also love camping and fishing and when enjoying these pursuits I like to get as far away from others as possible. This usually involves driving to a remote trailhead then putting on a backpack. Thus the 4WD.

If I had the money I'd have a little gas miser car but not for environmental reasons. I just hate sending my fuel dollars to people who hate us.

I haven't used my air conditioning in years. I just open the windows in my house and use ceiling fans in whatever room I'm in.

I wear cheap imported clothing or clothing from Goodwill/thrift stores.

Due to budget considerations the food I eat comes from huge farms and packing plants. 

I ate free-range chicken once. It is better tasting and probably healthier but too expensive for me.

There is a lot to be said for living simply.

I don't believe that our largest environmental concerns stem from what we use as much as what we waste through piggishness and inefficiency.

I totally understand your view on hand tooling. It seems to me to be the purest form of the art and a wonderful tradition that should not be be relegated to history. 

Having said that, hand tooling is simply not practical for most of us who work wood or build for a living.

We have to compete in the present day.

Most people can't afford pieces lovingly hand crafted using hand tools and traditional joinery and carving methods.

More power to those that can. They are the true patrons of the art.

I wonder how many of the past masters would have set their hand tools aside in favor of our technology and methods had they been available to them.


----------



## Tilaran (Dec 22, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> I don't have a car either. I have a 4WD SUV. I would love to be able to be able to use public transportation and/or my bikes to commute to work. I just haven't figured out a way to transport my tools and equipment to the job site using the bus.
> 
> I also love camping and fishing and when enjoying these pursuits I like to get as far away from others as possible. This usually involves driving to a remote trailhead then putting on a backpack. Thus the 4WD.
> 
> ...


You could drive one of these like my neighbor


----------



## Tilaran (Dec 22, 2012)

Oh. The wood he's hauling is Guapinol. I'll let you Google it  Just ole cheap stuff for corrals.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...41338691&qsubts=1356668815580&q=guapinol+wood


----------



## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I have and use some real technological achievements. They are just as useful as iron was to people from the Neolithic.
Power tools and hand tools are equally useful. . . depends on the use.
Car? SUV? not transport vehicle equivalents? what's that about? Same thing. How often do you jump around in the bottomless mud with 4X4 and a barking big 454cid V8 to get you where you _need_ to go? Or better yet, to get me out of where I've been?

I'm shopping for a draw knife and a spoke shave. I hope to score old ones that I can fix up. I want to see tools used for great lengths of time. Not buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend. Oh but it isn't chrome shiny enough. Horse puckey, say I.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Robson Valley said:


> I have and use some real technological achievements. They are just as useful as iron was to people from the Neolithic.
> Power tools and hand tools are equally useful. . . depends on the use.
> ------------------------------------
> ***Absolutely. I enjoy my power tools but after reading posts by hand toolers I find myself drawn to hand tools. I have several planes and I'm in the process of restoring one right now.
> ...


------------------------------------
***The best shine there is comes off the cutting edge of a very sharp tool yes?


----------



## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Ah yes. The matte finish from a 4k water stone and its transformation to a blinding shine with the strop. Yes, indeed.


----------



## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

For me, it is a therapeutic hobby. I'm a software developer by profession, so I spend all day sitting in a chair staring at a computer screen. I NEED to get up and do things with my hands. 

My woodworking interest came as a result of my project to organize my garage, making shelves and drawers and whatnot. I initially fell into the power tool rabbit hole, and then realized how much fine dust routers and table saws spew into the air, and how bad it was to breathe it. 

When it got to the point where I needed a big noisy machine with tubes everywhere for dust control and ear muffs and a mask to cut a piece of wood on a machine that could send me to the ER in a split second, it hit me: this is NOT the hobby I wanted.

With hand tools, it gives me what I need: just me and the wood, and a few hand tools to shape it with, and I'm happy.


----------



## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> Have you ever considered that your hand tools are are probably machine made? Delivered to you by mechanized transport using petroleum based road surfaces? Do you own a car? Do you have electric lights or use candles for lighting? Gas, electric or wood stove? Spinning wheel and hand sewn clothing? Air conditioning or servants waving palm fronds?
> 
> I wouldn't be so concerned about the environmental impact of using power tools.


I just rediscovered this thread, and thought I'd drop in a comment on this.

Yes, my hand tools were (and still are, for the newer ones) machine made. But let's talk about resources.

My old brace has a pound or two of steel in it, and some small pieces of wood. My collection of bits adds a few more pounds of steel. It was probably built sometime in the mid 1900s -- there are no remaining identifying marks, so I have no way of knowing. It's been happily drilling holes since then, and could easily do so for another hundred years with reasonable maintenance. The jaws might need a new spring sometime soon, and I probably out to put some lubricant in the jaws sooner or later. It weighs very little, and hundreds could easily be shipped in a single truck. All the oil-based (or nuclear, or coal, or hydro, or solar) energy needed for this tool has long since been used, unless I buy new bits.

Now let's look at my drill press. It's a bench-top model, built in 1980 according to the ID plate, and weighs around 60 pounds, give or take. Most of that is iron or steel, but there's a significant amount of copper in the motor, and some rubber in the belt. The motor will run for a while, but sooner or later the brushes will need to be replaced, and to be honest, I'm not that confident that the motor will last much longer. The belt is starting to wear out, too, and the power cord has already been replaced once. It's fairly big, and the box it was shipped in was bigger still. You could probably put 100 of them on a big truck for shipping. Further, it needs to be plugged in every time I want to use it. So it shows a much higher embodied energy (the energy used to build it), it took more energy to ship, and it uses more electrical energy every time I use it.


The same arguments hold true for almost all hand tools; a rabbet plane is cheaper, energy-wise, to build, ship, and use than a table saw or router. The same comparison holds for a hand-saw vs. a table or band saw. That one is remarkable... a good table saw will mass several hundred pounds, and you'll fit tens of them on a truck. A handsaw weighs only a couple of pounds, and you can fit hundreds of them on a truck.


I'm not saying people shouldn't use power tools: there's a cost in human efficiency, and for production work the math there goes in favor of power tools a lot of the time. But it's not an all-or-nothing equation. If my choice to use hand tools was based on use of fossil fuels (it's not), I wouldn't say that's invalidated by my use of electricity to light my house. I'd say I'm offsetting part of my use. That's something the crunch-granola types have been forgetting all these years. Being eco-friendly (for lack of a better term) isn't all-or-nothing. It's a matter of making some compromises to get a good standard of living while doing as little damage as possible.


Anyway... that turned into more of a rant than I intended: sorry about that. I'll just step off my soapbox now, and go back out to the shop...


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I just posted on this very topic here:


http://creoleproject.blogspot.com/p/hand-tools-shmand-tools-who-needs-those.html

That's my $0.005 worth of two cents... :smile:


----------



## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm a very visually oriented person. Perhaps that's why the shapes in wood carvings are so appealing to me. 

Carving is wood work in slow motion. I get to watch the sawdust spill out of a saw cut. I get to watch the split develop just ahead of my froe. My spokeshaves make the most amazing curly wood bits imaginable. The gouges, crooked knives and skews take away (nearly) predictable fragments of waste wood. I guess I'm in it to have the time to think about the process as opposed to jumping to the finished end. There's nearly a Zen-thing shaping a kitchen stick handle with a spokeshave.

I have some power tools which I use to cut wood into managable pieces for the design I have in mind.
Everything happens so fast, there's not much that I care to watch or have the opportunity to see.
I realize that I could work faster with more effective rough-outs with a bigger bandsaw and so on.


----------



## Rama (3 mo ago)

amckenzie4 said:


> I wrote a longer post about this here. This is the short version.
> 
> For me, it's a question of speed and comfort. In a lot of cases, I just find unpowered tools to be FASTER. If I need to cut a dozen pieces exactly the same, then yes, a power tool and a jig is going to be simpler. But... well, here's an example. I had a piece I needed to duplicate. It was just hair thinner than a 2x4, and about a quarter inch narrower. Now, I could have set up the table saw to make the cut, or the band saw, but that takes time. Instead, I pulled out a #5 hand plane. At a heavy cut, it was about 4-5 passes to cut it to width, plus one more for smoothing at a very light cut. That same light cut a few times over the wider face got it to the right thickness. Total elapsed time, three or four minutes. It also took about 30 seconds to cut it to length.
> 
> ...


For me I prefer using any powered saw to a hand saw. For cutting give me a table saw for rip and cross cuts or a miter saw for cross and miter cuts every day. However for smoothing and flattening I would prefer to hand plane. I don't find sawing by hand enjoyable but planing and smoothing by hand is more enjoyable. I want to get into hand carving and I think would prefer doing that by hand over power carving. It does come down to what specific tasks you enjoy doing. For the ones you enjoy doing the slower method may be better, for the tasks that you consider tedious doing them in whatever way will speed them up would be better. This way you do the aspects you don't like as quickly as possible so you can spend more time in the aspects that you do enjoy.


----------

