# Dovetail saw



## htank (Oct 25, 2010)

I just ordered a Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw after I gave up on trying to find a dovetail jig on CL. I was too nervous that it would be missing a piece, so I thought I would give hand dovetailing a try. I watched a few videos and read some articles on it. Any pointers would be appreciated, thanks.


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## MarcR (Nov 28, 2010)

Practice, Practice Practice and with a little patience you will nail it. Tips - Leave the line and make sure you mark the waste. I can't tell you how many times I went on the wrong side of the line and had to start over. I would suggest putting a really good edge on a chisel, and make a paring block. A paring block is on of the best aids when starting and a very sharp chisel is a must. 

Good Luck.


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## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

You've got a very good dovetail saw. I went through a few before I settled on the LN. It works.

There are some good videos, especially Rob Cosman's video. Frank Klausz has a good video but he doesn't mark his pins, just cuts them from experience. He's a pins first guy. I'd think it's probably better to lay them out first when your learning. I imagine there's some newer videos and some stuff on you tube that would work. 

Don't get too bogged downed in the pins first or tails first issue. Either works, just find the easiest for yourself.

Also, a marking knife is much better than a pencil for lay out. If you have trouble seeing the knife mark (as I often do), you can fill in the cut with a sharp pencil. 

You'll also need a marking gauge for setting the depth on your cuts. The wheel type gauges by Veritas and Tite-Mark are both good. I also like the long Veritas dovetail gauges for layout.

Good luck, practice, practice, practice.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

1++ on all advice above. I made 42 drawers this winter and I was just getting into the groove, spring came and I am outside. Oh well there is always next winter. Have fun with new saw.:thumbsup:


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## htank (Oct 25, 2010)

This is my first attempt at hand cutting dovetails. They are for some drawers I am making for an end table. They aren't that good, but I didn't think that were that bad either. I use oak, just because I had a bunch of extra laying around.


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## xphnmn (Dec 7, 2009)

Not bad for a first attempt! Congratulations!


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## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

Those look much better than my first several attempts. Your's are functional, mine weren't. Good Job!!


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## RJweb (Feb 25, 2011)

do you have a model # for the saw, I looked on line at LN, but there is more than 1 saw there, thx


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Much better than my first effort. I made mitakes that are too embaressing to talk about. I can't add anything to the advise above; but would restate that it's practice practice practice. Keep up the good work.


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## jaxonquad (Jan 26, 2011)

Wow! Nice first! I just began my journey into hand cut DT also.


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## Adillo303 (Dec 20, 2010)

This is a great saw. Lots of money though

http://www.robcosman.com/tools_dtsaw.php

Read the features. It has finer teeth in the font to start the cut.


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## htank (Oct 25, 2010)

RJweb said:


> do you have a model # for the saw, I looked on line at LN, but there is more than 1 saw there, thx


It is the S-DS. It cuts real smooth, I love the thing. 


Thanks for all the kind words, I made a paring block which helped considerably with the layout.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Looks great. DT's are something I'm still working at myself. My only suggestion is to cut your tails a bit longer so you can go over them with a block plane and sand em.

But like I said, looks great, WAY better than my first and pretty much par with my best now!

~tom


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh, btw I noticed www.toolsforworkingwood.com has a couple DT saws for a decent price.

~tom


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## Woodwork Guy (Jul 1, 2011)

I got a Veritas dovetail saw from Lee Valley for $65. They have free shipping over 7/4/11 weekend too. It's a great saw for cutting dovetails. Nice and balanced. Love the Bad Axe saws. Maybe for x-mas...


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## RJweb (Feb 25, 2011)

which saw 14 or 20, thx


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## Woodwork Guy (Jul 1, 2011)

I have the 14tpi since I use 3/4 and 4/4 stock. Want to get a 20tpi for 1/2 stock drawers. You might consider the combo set - especially this weekend with the free shipping.


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## Visions (Jun 16, 2011)

LN saws are very nice, it should serve you well for many, many years to come.
I do recommend looking into some of Rob Cosman's videos and books, as I believe they will help you cut better dovetails.

If you ever do decide to go with a DT jig as well, I HIGHLY recommend either the Original Incra Jig or their new Ultra-Lite positioner and fence.
I have the Original Incra Jig, and it's simply awesome, especially for the money. I believe it, the templates and fence kit were just over $100, and between the jig and the templates, you can cut something like 50 different dovetails and box-joints. It has far more capability than any dovetail jig I have seen, and it makes for a super accurate fence system as well, which comes in handy for all your other router table operations.

I just received my new Ultra-Lite positioner a few days ago, and haven't had the time to set it up yet, but it looks to be just a scaled down version of the LS positioner with a few small differences. 
And at $150, it was a smokin deal compared to some of the better dovetail jigs, and it will do a lot more as well.

If you're not familiar with the Incra positioners and the Original Jig, it's worth it to take a look at the Incra site. The capabilities of these systems is simply amazing, and the joints they can make are nearly impossible with other methods, such as the sliding double dovetail and the corner post dovetail.
If you do ever go Incra, make sure you get the guide and template library, it's the best accessory you could buy for these systems.
http://www.incra.com/product_rtf_main.htm

Wayne


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

I am considering the Incra Original for my router table over the Ultra Lite. Some reviews I read stated that the Ultra-Lite req'd a lot of messing around to use...got the impression that it was more hassle than it was worth to use (though it did work well, just sounded like a time-hog). All other reviews pointing to the "original" seem very favorable. Anyone else have opinions on these? Rockler has a combo kit for $100 that seems pretty decent. Thanks.


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## renovatio (Jul 4, 2011)

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since it's related: can anyone recommend a decent starter dovetail saw? I don't want to spend $130+ on one yet, just want to try it out on a couple small projects. Here's a link to the saws sold by woodcraft- any suggestions would be appreciated.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002124/Handsaws.aspx


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

renovatio said:


> I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since it's related: can anyone recommend a decent starter dovetail saw? I don't want to spend $130+ on one yet, just want to try it out on a couple small projects. Here's a link to the saws sold by woodcraft- any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002124/Handsaws.aspx


I suggest you start with a gents style saw. Its easy to control and won't break the bank. PAX makes a pretty nice one for pretty cheap at just under $40. Pick one with a higher tpi, 18-22 and be prepared to do a lil sharpening.

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## MikeS (Dec 31, 2009)

renovatio said:


> I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since it's related: can anyone recommend a decent starter dovetail saw? I don't want to spend $130+ on one yet, just want to try it out on a couple small projects. Here's a link to the saws sold by woodcraft- any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002124/Handsaws.aspx


I have not used one, but have read a lot of good reports / comments about the Veritas (Lee Valley ) dovetail saw. At $65, it should be a good first saw.


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## Visions (Jun 16, 2011)

Depending on what you want to spend, the Crown Gent's saw is a nice tool for the cost, and is VERY affordable. The LN gent's saw is a bit more, but very nice and super high quality.

Even a Japanese saw from one of the box stores will do very well. I have several low-cost Jap saws that served me very well, and they cut very straight and fast.

I have this saw : Amazon.com: Shark Corp 10/4/2008 Detail Saw: Home Improvement
and for the cost, I have been very pleased with it. It cuts nice dovetails and can be had for about $12.

Another option is one of higher cost Japanese saws from WoodCraft or one of the other suppliers. I upgraded to a Shark Dozuki saw from Woodcraft, which cost apprx $80, and it has been an excellent saw. ( http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2003901/9410/Shark-Dozuki-102610-Hand-Saw-.aspx )

I also have the Shinwa Mini Dozuki, and it too is a very nice saw, though a bit smaller.

I found the Japanese pull saws were easier to cut with when I first was learning to hand-cut dovetails.

Wayne


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## Visions (Jun 16, 2011)

ChiknNutz said:


> I am considering the Incra Original for my router table over the Ultra Lite. Some reviews I read stated that the Ultra-Lite req'd a lot of messing around to use...got the impression that it was more hassle than it was worth to use (though it did work well, just sounded like a time-hog). All other reviews pointing to the "original" seem very favorable. Anyone else have opinions on these? Rockler has a combo kit for $100 that seems pretty decent. Thanks.



The $100 combo is an excellent deal, but be sure you get the DVD and template library with it, as they are what really make the system what it is. Without the templates, the Incra jig loses a lot of it's value, as then it's just a positioner. The templates are what let you make all the crazy dovetails, and are the most important piece of the puzzle.

As for the Ultra-Lita, I didn't find it difficult to install or use in any way. You do need to be precise in it's mounting and where you position it so that it positions itself accurately, but that is to be expected. Having both, I don't feel it was much "worse" than the original, and it is a lot nicer and allows you to adjust between the 1/32" index points in .001" increments, which is awesome when trying to get an exact fit.

Either is a great deal, but I would spend the extra and get the Ultra-Lite. It's got more capacity and finer adjustment.
As well I like the aluminum fence and aluminum construction more than the MDF and plastic of the original. Though I need to give credit where it is due; my original Incra jig has been around a while and used a TON, and the fence is still dead nuts straight and the whole deal is a lot more solid than one would expect from the materials it's made of.

One major bonus I see, is the ability to add the Wonder Fence to the Ultra-Lite, as that is truly an awesome fence!

If you only plan to use it as a dovetail jig, than the Original Incra Jig will likely do all you need. But if you plan to use it as your only fence system, the micro adjust is just too awesome to pass up. 

Trust me, I was amazed by the little Incra jig when I first got it, but the Ultra Lite simply blows it away. Bigger, better, faster, what more do you need?

Wayne

EDIT: The Ultra Lite does take some getting used to, and if you just try to slap it on your router table and skip the instructions and DVD, you will likely not be happy and have issues. But once you use it for a few weeks, it is super simple and easy to use and much faster to set-up than anything I have ever used before.

The best advise, watch the Incra videos on their site on using the LS positioner, both on the router table and table saw. The Ultra Lite is nearly identical in operation, just smaller. Watch how fast the guy does the cuts and set-up, it really is that simple.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback, on both of your last posts. I have that exact Shark "dovetail" saw, but am so far only so-so on using it for DTs as it is just a pull-saw and has no spine. After doing my first hand-cut DTs I can see the merit in having a stiff saw. I am still going back and forth as to whether I want to do learn handcut DTs for a while and then maybe consider a jig or what. I tried my hand at my first DTs the other night to see how easy or hard it is. I did a total of four (4) corners, the first 2 were all by hand, the last 2 I rigged up a bandsaw jig to get the 14 degree angle (7 degrees per side) and those came out quite a bit better, plus I was just learning how to cut things. All but the last were pretty loose, but my last one was actually quite good surprisingly enough. I plan to post pix of them when I get back to the shop to show the progression as it's very obvious.


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## MarcR (Nov 28, 2010)

I started with a Veritas Saw and still use it. It is well balanced and cuts very good out of the box. I have attached the link. I am not sure I could recommend a $20 dollar saw because they are typically crap with out a tune up.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=64007&cat=1,42884


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## Visions (Jun 16, 2011)

ChiknNutz said:


> Thanks for the feedback, on both of your last posts. I have that exact Shark "dovetail" saw, but am so far only so-so on using it for DTs as it is just a pull-saw and has no spine. After doing my first hand-cut DTs I can see the merit in having a stiff saw. I am still going back and forth as to whether I want to do learn handcut DTs for a while and then maybe consider a jig or what. I tried my hand at my first DTs the other night to see how easy or hard it is. I did a total of four (4) corners, the first 2 were all by hand, the last 2 I rigged up a bandsaw jig to get the 14 degree angle (7 degrees per side) and those came out quite a bit better, plus I was just learning how to cut things. All but the last were pretty loose, but my last one was actually quite good surprisingly enough. I plan to post pix of them when I get back to the shop to show the progression as it's very obvious.


You can actually produce very nice dovetails on a bandsaw, or even a scroll saw for that matter. If I am going to cheat and use a power saw, I like to just go right to the table saw myself. I just tilt the blade to get the proper side angle and run the stock through clamped to my miter slide. Works pretty well and will still have relatively thin necks if you use a thin-kerf blade.

No matter what you use, you will still need to invest some time in practice to achieve good results. Like has been said before, "practice makes perfect".

The spine-less pull saws will produce nice dovetails with practice, but it will take some time to get the hang of pulling the saw dead straight without tipping it or pulling it to the side. 
I spent probably 10 hours practicing with a spineless pull saw, and after I got so I could cut dead-straight with it, it's almost effortless with my Dozuki, as it's much stiffer and also a much better cutting saw.

I feel there is some benefit to practicing with a lesser saw, as it's more difficult and will take more effort to achieve good results, but will really hone your skills and make you a much better sawyer.

As for the cost of a saw, I don't feel it matters much. I own the Crown Gent's saw, which cost me $26 if I recall correctly, and it cuts excellently and has since it was pulled out of the plastic. My Shark saw cuts well, as do my Vaughan pull saws. 
Yes, there are terrible saws out there, but they are pretty easy to spot just by looking at the teeth, as some I have seen appear mis-shaped, rounded over, at improper angles and with other issues as well.
Anyway, when you start with a decent saw, you really appreciate the "really nice saw" once you finally buy one. And as I said before, if you can cut a good dovetail with so-so saw, the nice saw will feel like it has auto-pilot.

Another thing to remember is that some guys on here may not have $100 to drop on a really nice saw, and even $60 may be too much. I have friends who have to make do with that $26 Crown saw or $20 double-sided Vaughan Bear Saw and do very well with them too. 

There is one thing that not even the best of the best saw can replace, and that, my friend, is skill.

Wayne


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