# What's the best Hybrid Saw for me? Craftsman, Steel City, Delta? Other?



## pabells (Apr 10, 2009)

I hope to buy my first table saw for home shop use, building prairie style/mission oak furniture and trim work.
I’ve looked at the Craftsman 22124 with a Biesemeyer fence. The example I saw was not assembled very well at a Sears store, but I don’t suppose this is an indication of quality. This saw seems to be running around $1099. I also have catalog and web information on the Steel City 35930. I am attracted to this because of the riving knife and am hopeful that a granite top would cause me no problem and might be easier to maintain. It comes with an integrated mobile base and 30” Industrial fence. I haven’t seen one up close.
There’s also the Delta series 36-717 which runs around $1150.
What advice would anyone give me on making the selection of a saw?
I browse craigslist for nearby saws for sale used that might be appropriate, but so far nothing seems ideal, and I’m worried about lack of warranty on a used saw.
I’ve read Kelly Mehler’s book and done a bit of research, but would like to hear from some seasoned woodworkers and anyone who’s recently bought one of these (or other) saws.
Thanks!


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## BloomingtonMike (Jan 3, 2008)

Pabells, Welcome! I am new here too but not new to WW, WW forums, or tools. 

Have you checked out the Grizzly G1023S/L at all? That is just a great value on a cabinet saw (one minus a riving knife) and may be cheaper than some of your other choices after tax. It is a 3hp cabinet saw and not a hybrid. The trunnioins on that 1023 are HEAVY duty and that is a down side to owning the SC hybrid. Do you have a 220V circuit in the shop or can you put one in (or have it installed)? Would be WELL worth your time to get this saw instead of the others metioned (although for hybrids you did pick some good saws).

http://www.grizzly.com/products/searchresults.aspx?q=G1023

As for no riving knife there is a guy making a BORK spitter (Bolt on Riving Knife) for the G1023s. He is a member on www.woodnet.com . Go there and search for that. This way you keep your budget, get a cabint saw, and then can get a psudo riving knife latter on when you are ready. 

Take a good look at the G1023 series before you pull the trigger on a hybrid. Free shipping on them right now too.

If you want the RK out of the box the G0690 is $1250 plus shipping. 
http://www.grizzly.com/products/g0690


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Welcome to WWT. I owned the 22124 for over 3 years and thought it was a great saw. It's actually made by Steel City's Orion subsidiary...$1100 for it seems steep....sale prices can make it much more attractive. The Steel City saw with the riving knife would definitely have some appeal. 

The Delta has no mechanical or feature advantages over the other two that I'm aware of, and in fact is actually at a bit of a technical disadvantage due to it's trunnion structure....table mounted with connecting rods for an arbor carriage. Nonetheless, it should still serve you well, but it'd require a hefty price advantage for me to consider it. 

If you've got 220v available, I'd agree that the 3hp Grizzly 1023 or Shop Fox equivalent are more substantial saws that are roughly in the same price range. If no 220v, you're limited to the saws that 2hp or less.

The new Ridgid R4511 is made by Steel City/Orion (or in conjuction with) for TTI. It's got a riving knife, granite top, cabinet mounted trunnions, large handwheels, and a Herculift all for $600. The fence is functional but is not quite in the same league as the Biesemeyer, but at $600 retail, you'd have some wiggle room to peddle the stock fence and add something better if you wanted to....you might find that it's just fine though. Worth a look and some consideration anyway.

Good luck and please keep us updated on your progress! :thumbsup:


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## BobbyfromHouston (Jul 4, 2008)

I agree with Mike about getting a Grizzly 3hp. I had a Delta and put a 3hp Grizzly motor on it and my saw works great now. Do you have 220 volts available, if so I would seriously consider the Grizzly. I don't like the granite tops. Just my opinion. I love the new magnet feather boards, etc. They will be usely to you if you go granite. I have heard neg reviews on the miter slots of granite also. The 3hp cabinet takes up less room than a contractor saw because the motor swings underneath, has more power than a hybrid saw. If 220 volts is available.............??????????????
Bobby


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## glassyeyes (Mar 25, 2009)

*Ridgid R4511 Hybrid Saw*

I've posted a thread on this saw elsewhere on this site.

Pro's: Cost ($600 at HD)
Weight (477 lbs in the shipping crate)
Hybrid architecture -- motor doesn't hang out the back.
Heavy trunnions, like Steel City/Craftsman, cabinet mounted
Includes Herc-U-Lift mobile base
It passed the "nickel test"
It is set up for a riving knife
Arbor runout was extremely low
Easy miter-slot-to-blade adjustment

Cons: Weight (about 450 out of the crate)
Cost-saving measures to permit packing in one large crate --
Two-piece front and back fence rails -- accurate so far, BUT 
a one-piece rail can't shift over time. Back rail offers NO 
support for the wings, given the spacing of the holes (fixable) 

Quality control commensurate with the price? Rt. wing on mine 
has been replaced 3 times; the first two were broken before 
or during transit (I couldn't tell which). Gardner (parts 
supplier for Ridgid) Home D and Ridgid have been responsive, 
but I don't think Gardner is capable of packaging dirt without 
breaking it. 

It is set up for a riving knife, but didn't include one, just the 
usual, crummy splitter/blade guard"

Other Comments: The ordinary Joe doesn't have the tools to work on 
stone. The wing problem on this saw (lateral misalignment of the 
mounting holes) would've been a 30-minute fix on a cast-iron tool.

Conclusion: If you've got the money, get a different saw.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

glassyeyes said:


> ...Home D and Ridgid have been responsive,
> but I don't think Gardner is capable of packaging dirt without
> breaking it....


:laughing: ...That's a good one! I'm sure I'll "borrow" that quote sometime in the near future! :thumbsup:


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## Fbranco (Jan 30, 2009)

BloomingtonMike said:


> As for no riving knife there is a guy making a BORK spitter (Bolt on Riving Knife) for the G1023s. He is a member on www.woodnet.com . Go there and search for that. This way you keep your budget, get a cabint saw, and then can get a psudo riving knife latter on when you are ready.


No need to got here. He's here.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/members/borkbob-7435/


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## Skidooman93 (Apr 11, 2009)

I wouldn't worry about the granite thing. You never hear any good thing about granite, but that is from the people that don't own one of the tools. I personally don't own one, but something I have noticed. Not one person that owns one of the granite toped saws, bandsaws, and jointers has ever said I hate it, I wish I never would have bought it. Everyone I have heard says they love it. I personally think the grainte is a great idea. And it is like anything if you take care of it it should last. 

Personally with the way saws cost today and the different options out there I would stay away from the grizzly 1023 saw too. There are a couple of reasons for that. For the same price and lower you can get a real riving knife, a larger table, and a saw from a local distrubitor. The grizzly 1023 has a very small rip capacity compared to other tools in the same price range today. Their new 0690 series saws are real nice they have a 30" rip capacity and a real riving knife. I know several people that own SC saws and have been very happy with them. For a lower price you will get a real riving knife, a better fence, a local distrubtor, and a 30" rip capacity with a nice large table, I think they are about 56" or so. The trunions on a SC are a little lighter than the grizzly but they will out last a long, long time under normal use. I would go with the SC for the price but make sure you get one with the industrial fence. And don't be afraid of the granite. If I were in the market for a new saw I would buy one with granite.

The rigid saw looks to be pretty decent. I have not seen one in person, but I have heard a few complaining about the fence being a POS.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Several times here I have seen mention of "hybrid saws."

Just what is a hybrid saw

G


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

GeorgeC said:


> Several times here I have seen mention of "hybrid saws."
> 
> Just what is a hybrid saw
> 
> G


Fair question, but unfortunately there are no set definitions. To me, a hybrid is the evolution of the 60 year old contractor saw design that moves the motor from hanging out the back to inside the enclosure. Simply moving the motor inside offers several advantages....smaller footprint, improved dust collection, more mass, no lifting hazard when tilting the blade, and the shorter drive belt has less vibration and more efficient power transfer. Many manufacturers have replaced the splayed leg stand with a closed stand, but not all. 

That definition gets a bit murky when you include a newer trend of saws that are offering cabinet mounted trunnions to an otherwise home duty 110v saw of less than 2hp (Craftsman, Steel City, and Ridgid). Some prefer to call these "cabinet saws", but they're not in the same class as the Unisaws or Grizzly 1023 style cabinet saws. The plot thickens further with some of the Steel City offerings that use the same trunnion format with a 3hp version of the same saw...they're lighter duty than their "Deluxe" industrial cabinet saws, but are far from "light duty".


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## BobbyfromHouston (Jul 4, 2008)

Please note that I didn't say which Grizzly saw. I would look at what you can afford. Recently I saw free shipping on many of their tools. I would much prefer a cabinet saw for power, capacity, and improved dust collection over a contractor or underpowered hybrid saw anyday. If you buy the right tablesaw, it could last you a lifetime.
Bobby


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

knotscott said:


> Fair question, but unfortunately there are no set definitions. To me, a hybrid is the evolution of the 60 year old contractor saw design that moves the motor from hanging out the back to inside the enclosure. Simply moving the motor inside offers several advantages....smaller footprint, improved dust collection, more mass, no lifting hazard when tilting the blade, and the shorter drive belt has less vibration and more efficient power transfer. Many manufacturers have replaced the splayed leg stand with a closed stand, but not all.
> 
> That definition gets a bit murky when you include a newer trend of saws that are offering cabinet mounted trunnions to an otherwise home duty 110v saw of less than 2hp (Craftsman, Steel City, and Ridgid). Some prefer to call these "cabinet saws", but they're not in the same class as the Unisaws or Grizzly 1023 style cabinet saws. The plot thickens further with some of the Steel City offerings that use the same trunnion format with a 3hp version of the same saw...they're lighter duty than their "Deluxe" industrial cabinet saws, but are far from "light duty".


No wonder I had no idea what was a hybird saw. To me a hybrid would be a combination of a saw and something else, like the ones with a router station in one of the wings. 

Thanks.

G


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## Wood4Fun (Aug 29, 2008)

my understanding of a hybrid vs cabinet saw is that the trunion is mounted to the bottom of the table on a hybrid (compared to mounted to the cabinet), and the hp on the motor is lower (less that 2hp).

The thing that doesnt make sense is that the directions for my Craftsman say to loosen the bolts that hold the table to the cabinet in order to adjust the relationship between the t-slot and blade. If the trunion was mounted to the under side of the table, it seems that would move as well and would not offer adjustability.

in any case, I have the Craftsman model one step below the one with the biesmeyer fence (the one you are considering), and I am happy with it. I bought it without any research, and before I even new companies like Grizzly existed (not saying I would have gone with Grizzly). If my old saw broke today instead of a year ago, or so, I would probably be asking the same questions as you.
For the record, I do like my Craftsman. So far it has served me well. I did put new pulley's on it and got a link belt, which made a huge difference in its performance.


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## glassyeyes (Mar 25, 2009)

*Definition of a hybrid saw*

That's why knotscott said there's no set definition; some hybrid saws has the trunnions mounted to the bottom of the table, while others (like the heavier Craftsman, the new Ridgid, etc.) have the trunnions mounted to the cabinet. On those, shifting the table top is what aligns the blade to the slots. The others align like contractor-type saw; you have to move the trunnion.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Wood4Fun said:


> ...The thing that doesnt make sense is that the directions for my Craftsman say to loosen the bolts that hold the table to the cabinet in order to adjust the relationship between the t-slot and blade. If the trunion was mounted to the under side of the table, it seems that would move as well and would not offer adjustability.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have the 22114, which does have cabinet mounted trunnions. It's actually much easier to align than those that have table mounted trunnions. Just loosen all four the bolts that hold the top to the cabinet...be sure not to loosen the bolts that hold the trunnions. Then tap the table into alignment. It's literally about a 10 minute job from start to finish.


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## johnv51 (Oct 27, 2008)

I have the Griz 1023 and love it.


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