# This sole isnt flat enough, right?



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Below is my first attempt at flattening the sole of a plane. I am using sand paper and 1/8 storm glass on top of sorta flat ply. I was too lazy to pull out the mdf I was going to put it on. I as getting tired of lapping and went up to 1500 grit to see what it would look like. As you can mostly see, there are couple of high spots around the mouth and it looks like its still low in front and center of the mouth. Do you agree? 











On a related note here are a few shots of my 27. I'd like to get this Into useable shape if possible. The sole is warped and you can see the cracks around the mouth and toe, and the mouth looks pretty big. Do you think this needs a new sole rather than an inlay, if salvageable at all?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

If the steel plane were mine, I would have said "good enough" even before the 1500 grit. The 1500 grit does make the sole look nice and polished, but the wood may not care.

The low and high spots may have been on the plane for a long time. I would not expect any performance impact.

The #27 is in sad shape. I have a similar plane from Sargent a 3416. My sole/body is in much better shape.

My learning for working with my Sargent, is that these transitional planes are not very good compared to the all metal planes.

You may consider replacing the sole/body. If you do, I would make this a 4 part glue-up to avoid the hassle of cutting out the slope for the blade support. I would make a rectangle block for the front, a block with the relevant angle for the rear. Looks like 45 deg on my Sargent, but I did not measure. I would then have two thin sides and glue everything together.

My Sargent body is beech. If I were to replace I would prefer hard maple.

Even if you fix the sole or body, I am not happy with my Sargent. The shavings block up the mouth too easily.

Good luck with your restoration.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I would not have been using sandpaper to try to level the sole of that planer. At the very least I would have been using a much larger grit emery cloth.

George


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

I started at 80 and did the 1500 to learn what it would do.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> I would not have been using sandpaper to try to level the sole of that planer. At the very least I would have been using a much larger grit emery cloth.
> 
> George


That's what I use to flatten the sole of a plane. A piece of plate glass or polished granite, wet/dry paper, wet the paper and base and stick the paper down. Doesn't move and the various grits to a great job.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

Okok


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I think the sole looks fine. I agree with Dave, it's doubtful you'll see any improvement by continuing to flatten unless you really want to spend another 4-5 hours exercising your arms. 

I think I would clean up the metal on the 27 and park it on a shelf for decoration.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Contrary to popular believe the soles of planes don't have to be dead flat... That's an operator preference. Is flat better?... Yes. Have I EVER encountered a bench plane with a "FLAT" sole... an emphatic NO.

Is that the 5-1/2C you mentioned you might buy? :smile:

As for the 27, start off by jointing the sole. The mouth is likely that large because the previous owner used it as intended... A foreplane. With a camber on the iron and a slightly aggressive depth it can make quick work of rough flattening a board. Big shaving need a big mouth to pass through. If, after jointing, the mouth is too large you could laminate a thin piece of beech to the bottom, follow the angle of the throat down into the mouth, and have a tighter mouth.

btw, the 5 or 5-1/2 will do a fine job of jointing the sole. Place the 27 upside down in a vice and go at it with a few passes checking your results as you go.

Good luck!


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Sadly, it's not the 5 1/2. It's a 4c I picked up a couple of months ago and just last night finished tuning it and sharpening the blade. 

Do you think I'd be able to get away with using the 4 to joint it? My options are the 4 a union tool 8 that I haven't tried to tune yet and a couple of sheets of sandpaper on glass. I'm also thinking the closer to foolproof the better on method. 

I'm starting to get anxious about this since I still don't have a 5 and until I have a means of flattening boards my projects are limited to preparing tools. 

Thanks.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'd suggest you turn your attention to the union jointer first. It can work down a rough board to. 

You can go from the jointer to the 4 to finish a board. There are no hard and fast rules to it, per say, but it's just making the most of what's available.

Good luck.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

Is it flat enough? Proof is in the pudding. I agree with all that said its not as important as its sometimes made out to be.

I've got a whole shelf full of transitional restores. I don't really use them, I just think they are cool. http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/tag/transitionals-2/


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I spent a great deal of time and elbow grease trying to flatten the sole of a plane. And once I had it flatter I noticed no performance difference.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

As an update to an old thread, I have finally been able to flatten my #27 transitional and actually use it in a project. I am building some toy storage bins and needed to join die boards for a panel. The plane was great to use, except that it clogged every third stroke. But I haven't touched up the chip breaker yet so hopefully that will improve. I was just reading up on a similar issue with a record that fire medic was advising on so we'll see how that goes. I have no intention of giving up on this plane. I do need to wax or otherwise treat the bottom though. 

Apparently i already transferred the photo to my computer off of my phone- I'll have to post it later. 

On a related note, I had a chance to lay my union no 8 on a jointer bed and found that it is slightly concave. I would estimate that the biggest light gap is 2-3 times what I think is the smallest I could see, if that makes sense. I read elsewhere that concave is unacceptable. Is that right? I'm not relishing the idea of flattening this but I do intend to use it.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

railaw said:


> As an update to an old thread, I have finally been able to flatten my #27 transitional and actually use it in a project. I am building some toy storage bins and needed to join die boards for a panel. The plane was great to use, except that it clogged every third stroke. But I haven't touched up the chip breaker yet so hopefully that will improve. I was just reading up on a similar issue with a record that fire medic was advising on so we'll see how that goes. I have no intention of giving up on this plane. I do need to wax or otherwise treat the bottom though.
> 
> Apparently i already transferred the photo to my computer off of my phone- I'll have to post it later.
> 
> On a related note, I had a chance to lay my union no 8 on a jointer bed and found that it is slightly concave. I would estimate that the biggest light gap is 2-3 times what I think is the smallest I could see, if that makes sense. I read elsewhere that concave is unacceptable. Is that right? I'm not relishing the idea of flattening this but I do intend to use it.


:thumbdown: I just wrote an exhausting reply and it disappeared somehow...

the gist of it, PM me your address... I have something for you :happybday:

I'll re-write the reply a little later...


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

So I finally got around to flattening the no 8 jointer. Though I don't know how flat it really is - the 80 grit paper I was using isn't really wet dry so t kept curling up and probably was contacting more of the sole than it should have. It seems however that nose to mouth is pretty close to flat and it appeared that there was contact at the heel so that should be good enough - I will have to try it to find out. 

Which brings me to sharpening the iron. I could not get that thing even a little sharpened. I have an eclipse guide, an x fine diamond plate, assorted sand paper and several coarser stones, plus a razor hone. There was a little pitting on the edges of the iron but I was ignoring that to begin; there was plenty of clean iron to sharpen along the edge, but I just could not make any progress. It was quite frustrating. Of course, this was the last thing I was doing somewhat late in the evening so maybe I was overlooking something. It is a laminated iron ( it's a union tool co). Are they harder to sharpen?


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## Rob Brown (Jul 7, 2009)

*sole flattening*

I recently did a block plane, that was in horrible condition, on a 6 inch stationary belt dander. Took all of the rough stuff off in the blink if an eye, and then went to finer grits on a piece of plate glass. that saved a ton of elbow grease and emery paper. I did use the emery, but it didn't plug up so quick because of the rust was gone.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Well, I finally got back to the no 8 iron and after spending a little more time on it, came to the conclusion that its just too pitted to pursue any longer. I don't have any pictures as I seem to leave my phone out of the shop, but I'd have to grind off about 3/8" to get to a point where there's no pitting all the way across, and the iron is already short as it is. Thanks for the offer anyway Dave. I think at this point I need to consider buying a new iron. 

Which by the way, if anyone wants to trade a a 2 5/8" iron for no 5 sweetheart iron, let me know.


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