# Polyurethane semi gloss clear coat over gel stain?



## baserock love (Jun 28, 2018)

Since i'm as big a nooby as you'll see around here I"m just trying to clear something up. Doing my first mini project, just refinishing some ikea chairs i picked up on the cheap to finish my living room redecorating and I just want to make sure this is ok while I can still return some stuff to Ace Hardware. I"m using General Finishes Java gel stain to refinish them if i ever in my life time finish the sanding which takes way longer than i thought it would. I picked up from ace hardware some spray indoor polyurethane semi gloss and I just want to make sure this is ok. It's a urethane based stain, no clue if that's an issue for a polyurethane based clear coat. 

They of course recommend only their products for clear coating and recommendations from others are all over the map. Will this be ok? 

Also I want to get recommendations about final finishing. I'd love for these to be really smooth, i can't sand finer than 150 before applying the stain, after a couple coats of clear coat should i lightly sand with a really fine grit just to get it really smooth?

Thanks for the help in advance!


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It's doubtful if the spray polyurethane would work. Often with spray can finishes they use acetone in the mix which could lift the gel stain. Be sure to try it on scrap wood first before trying it on your chairs. Otherwise it would be fine to put polyurethane over a gel stain.


----------



## baserock love (Jun 28, 2018)

Steve Neul said:


> It's doubtful if the spray polyurethane would work. Often with spray can finishes they use acetone in the mix which could lift the gel stain. Be sure to try it on scrap wood first before trying it on your chairs. Otherwise it would be fine to put polyurethane over a gel stain.


Oy, i was afraid of this. I'll return em and get a brush on polyurethane. Thanks!


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

baserock love said:


> Oy, i was afraid of this. I'll return em and get a brush on polyurethane. Thanks!


You might get online and find a MSDS sheet on the spray poly. These are always in PDF and my computer doesn't read PDF so I don't know if it has acetone in it or not. If it uses mineral spirits or naphtha as a solvent that would be alright with the gel stain.


----------



## baserock love (Jun 28, 2018)

Steve Neul said:


> You might get online and find a MSDS sheet on the spray poly. These are always in PDF and my computer doesn't read PDF so I don't know if it has acetone in it or not. If it uses mineral spirits or naphtha as a solvent that would be alright with the gel stain.


I actually looked for exactly that and couldn't find anything. I might try a wipe on poly or something. Looks convenient. Now things are even a bit more complicated. there's oil based and water based...do i need oil based for an oil based stain? 

Getting interested in woodworking has been one hell of a rabbit hole!


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Unless the gel stain was water based use an oil based poly. You shouldn't put a water based finish over an oil based gel stain. A gel stain is more like paint than stain. 

The fast dry poly rattle can stuff does have strong solvents in it. The instructions say recoat within 2 hours or wait 72 hours.


----------



## baserock love (Jun 28, 2018)

thanks for your help. GOing to head back to Ace tomorrow, then 4 more hours of sanding with no end in sight.


----------



## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> Unless the gel stain was water based use an oil based poly. You shouldn't put a water based finish over an oil based gel stain. A gel stain is more like paint than stain.
> 
> The fast dry poly rattle can stuff does have strong solvents in it. The instructions say recoat within 2 hours or wait 72 hours.


Here in Southern California, you have little choice. They don't sell oil based poly here. The rule of thumb here is to wait at least four days for the oil based gel stain to dry thoroughly before applying the water based polyurethane finish.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Here in Southern California, you have little choice. They don't sell oil based poly here. The rule of thumb here is to wait at least four days for the oil based gel stain to dry thoroughly before applying the water based polyurethane finish.


I'm worried about adhesion problems though. It's like you can paint over oil based paint with latex paint but if it gets a nick in the paint the paint can peal off in sheets. 

From what I understand it's not all of California which you can't get oil based finishes, it's just certain regions. I don't know, I live in Texas where you can buy most anything anywhere.


----------



## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> I'm worried about adhesion problems though. It's like you can paint over oil based paint with latex paint but if it gets a nick in the paint the paint can peal off in sheets.
> 
> From what I understand it's not all of California which you can't get oil based finishes, it's just certain regions. I don't know, I live in Texas where you can buy most anything anywhere.


True. 

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) imposes some restrictions on what we can buy in California compared with neighboring states.

The South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) has imposed additional restrictions that severely limit what we can buy in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, and San Bernardino counties. I have been told that people travel to nearby San Diego and Ventura counties to buy SCAQMD-restricted goods. 

I have been told that people travel to Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon to buy CARB-restricted goods. I visited a woodworking store in the Phoenix area last Spring, and noticed that they carry mineral spirits there. We can't get it here in Orange County, but I don't know whether it is a CARB (statewide) or SCAQMD (four counties) restriction.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It wouldn't be so bad to travel to get solvents and stock up but finishes have a shelf life.


----------



## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> It wouldn't be so bad to travel to get solvents and stock up but finishes have a shelf life.


Maybe, but we are not supposed to bring those solvents into the area in the first place. That's the whole point of the restrictions. People who do so are violating the law, although everyone tacitly recognizes that the restrictions are difficult to enforce.

I have never seen a police checkpoint where they were questioning drivers and searching vehicles for restricted solvents. The thought makes me laugh. 

I have been through a few checkpoints where they were searching for one specific solvent, but they use breathalyzers to detect it.


----------



## baserock love (Jun 28, 2018)

Steve Neul said:


> I'm worried about adhesion problems though. It's like you can paint over oil based paint with latex paint but if it gets a nick in the paint the paint can peal off in sheets.
> 
> From what I understand it's not all of California which you can't get oil based finishes, it's just certain regions. I don't know, I live in Texas where you can buy most anything anywhere.


I just moved from california to texas so i'm probably good.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

baserock love said:


> I just moved from california to texas so i'm probably good.


Yea in Texas you can buy most of those naughty solvents at walmart.


----------



## baserock love (Jun 28, 2018)

https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/varathane/ultimate-polyurethane-oil-based/ 

Picked up this. Any objections? looked to be about my only option for an oil based poly here.


----------



## Saw Dust Rules (Jul 21, 2018)

I have used poly over gel stains and gel/oil stain mixtures with great success. I usually mix my own stain of 1 part gel stain and 3 parts oil stain of the same color. It goes on smooth and even looking. Wipe off excess and let it dry overnight before applying poly.


----------



## baserock love (Jun 28, 2018)

Saw Dust Rules said:


> I have used poly over gel stains and gel/oil stain mixtures with great success. I usually mix my own stain of 1 part gel stain and 3 parts oil stain of the same color. It goes on smooth and even looking. Wipe off excess and let it dry overnight before applying poly.


 I see lots of frustration over bubbles and varying mutually exclusive techniques for applying poly. This is going on chairs, should i light sand with very high grit paper between coats? I got tack cloth and i'll pick up some mineral spirits. What about diluting the poly with mineral spirits? The can says use full strength, every discussion i've seen people say dilute it with about 3 parts poly and one part mineral spirits. 

This is sortof a pilot project for woodworking stuff i plan to do soon but i like to do things correctly the first time. Thanks for the help everybody!


----------

