# Refinishing a mid century modern coffee table... HELP!



## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

I just got this beautiful walnut coffee table from an antique shop but it had some water marks and dings and scratches. I decided to sand it and now am not sure what to do next. I want it to have a warm, low lustre finish but have never done this before. I have a pic of the same coffee table refinished that I want it to look like. Can anyone help me out? 
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...16477674_1254356085_32631279_1296202167_o.jpg

http://midcenturymobler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IMG_9710.jpg


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> I just got this beautiful walnut coffee table from an antique shop but it had some water marks and dings and scratches. I decided to sand it and now am not sure what to do next. I want it to have a warm, low lustre finish but have never done this before. I have a pic of the same coffee table refinished that I want it to look like. Can anyone help me out?
> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...16477674_1254356085_32631279_1296202167_o.jpg
> 
> http://midcenturymobler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IMG_9710.jpg


 







You said you've never done this before. Do you have any finishing experience? Do you have the skills and spray equipment, and the ability to spray a finish? Or, will the finish have to be all by hand?

Where are you located?














 







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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Hi there! It will be my second finishing experience. I don't have any spray equipment and I am doing this in my apartment and on my back porch if the weather allows. :/ I am pretty sure the finish will have to be by hand. I bought some Formby's low gloss tung oil, thinking that I wouldn't even try to stain it first, but found out on the top of the coffee table where the edges are, there is a different kind of wood that is much lighter than the walnut. I'm guessing I have to stain it now to make it look even, but I don't even know what kind of stain to use! Thanks for helping!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Hi there! It will be my second finishing experience. I don't have any spray equipment and I am doing this in my apartment and on my back porch if the weather allows. :/ I am pretty sure the finish will have to be by hand. I bought some Formby's low gloss tung oil, thinking that I wouldn't even try to stain it first, but found out on the top of the coffee table where the edges are, there is a different kind of wood that is much lighter than the walnut. I'm guessing I have to stain it now to make it look even, but I don't even know what kind of stain to use! Thanks for helping!


The light areas that you see, may be ones that you generated. The Walnut may be a veneer, and you may have sanded through it. What grit sandpaper did you use? The Formby's you have is not just an oil finish, but an oil/varnish/solvent mix. 

Where are you located?









 







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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Hi there! It will be my second finishing experience. I don't have any spray equipment and I am doing this in my apartment and on my back porch if the weather allows. :/ I am pretty sure the finish will have to be by hand. I bought some Formby's low gloss tung oil, thinking that I wouldn't even try to stain it first, but found out on the top of the coffee table where the edges are, there is a different kind of wood that is much lighter than the walnut. I'm guessing I have to stain it now to make it look even, but I don't even know what kind of stain to use! Thanks for helping!


from the pics, i think you may be percieving wrongly about the lighter wood. You have sanded through the clear finish and removed the stain in those areas.. The far left corner where you have sanded a good deal more shows a "uniform" color not a lighter as compared to darker color if the top was banded with a lighter wood. I won't say positively so, because of the surface not being wet and still covered with dust, just that it is "highly" unlikely to be the case.

The fact that you have also sanded out damages on the strechers and maybe elsewhere, is also problimatic in the sense of trying to blend a new stain in. Even seasoned finishers can have difficulty doing so.

I think with your stated level of expierience you would be better off taking this one at least, to a professional to do, though if you want you can continue removing the finish and stain to help cut down the cost of refinishing to a degree. Just make sure you use a flat block of some kind to insure you don't get dips in the top by hand or finger sanding. :yes:


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I agree with chemmy. That's sound information he gave Good luck.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Oops, sorry guys. I phrased it incorrectly. Let me show you a pic of what I'm talking about: http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/29745-danish-modern-bassett-surfboard-coffee-t


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Do you see how on the edges there is a lighter wood? That's exactly how mine is. I think hiring someone to refinish it for me will be WAY more than I can afford, so sadly I must do it myself. My first project wasn't so bad but I used an oil based stain and polyurethane in one and it was a mess. Here's a before and after of that one: /Users/shawnparis/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2012/Jan 13, 2012_2/DSC_0008.JPG
/Users/shawnparis/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2012/Feb 7, 2012/DSC_0015.JPG


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Oops, let's try it again:
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...60138923_1254356085_32533769_1507823513_o.jpg


http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...760618935_1254356085_32533770_624921850_o.jpg


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Oops, sorry guys. I phrased it incorrectly. Let me show you a pic of what I'm talking about: http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/29745-danish-modern-bassett-surfboard-coffee-t


It might not be Walnut, but a lighter wood that you sanded off the stain. But what does it mean that you phrased it wrong, and the link? Is your post just spam?









 







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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Also, I figured it was a walnut veneer and am being very careful to not sand through it. I am using 150 grit sandpaper and will do 220 after and then finish with like a 600 so it's as smooth as a baby's butt. Haha! Anyway, should I worry about sanding through the veneer?


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Wait, what? Spam??? Why would I post spam? lol


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Oops, sorry guys. I phrased it incorrectly. Let me show you a pic of what I'm talking about: http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/29745-danish-modern-bassett-surfboard-coffee-t


OK, that's walnut sap wood on the long edges in that pic, but in your pic where you have sanded in several inches i donot see sapwood long edges - take another pic with the wood wet down and post so it can be seen clearly ok?

As to my other post, it would still be my reccomendation to do as it says, unless your not fussy about the final color or outcome, just a professional suggestion - :yes:

Sorry, more post by the time i posted, lol. 

Well your chair job does not look bad so i will eave it up to you as to doing it or not, i understand pro finishing isn't cheap!

It would surprise me if it is veneer, but if so then yes take care.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Ok, I'll wet it down and take another pic. Thanks for the help and sorry, I am clueless about refinishing, but really want to learn. I was under the impression that this site was for people with questions, hoping for answers. And that comment about spam ruffled my feathers a little bit. lol Why would my question look like spam???


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Ok, I'll wet it down and take another pic. Thanks for the help and sorry, I am clueless about refinishing, but really want to learn. I was under the impression that this site was for people with questions, hoping for answers. And that comment about spam ruffled my feathers a little bit. lol Why would my question look like spam???


No, this site is only for people who know absolutely everything about wood finishing and have at least one hundred years of hands on expierience!! - LOL. :laughing:


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Haha! I sense sarcasm...  Ok here are a couple pics. 
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...58131215_1254356085_32631496_1289821539_o.jpg


http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...263411347_1254356085_32631519_825355263_o.jpg


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Oh, and ps: I'm located in Spokane, WA.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Oh, and ps: I'm located in Spokane, WA.


That's better, good pics, yes now i can see the sap wood or trim wood finally, lol. no that was just humor, no sarcasm intended. lol. 

Ok, so go ahead and continue removing the finish and color till everything looks uniform, and then get back with it wet again to see how close it is to the one you want it t look like ok? From there it can be determined what way to proceed, or if someone else cares to venture suggestions and materials you can go that route, personally i like to see what it looks like over-all before giving out steps and procedures, though your options are relatively small given the circumstances. padding the finish/aerosol spraying it, or brushing. As to stain, you'll have to decide if you want the edges to stay white or blended into the walnut, that will be the big decision.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Yeah, I agree. I'm going to sand it all down and then I'll take another pic, but I definitely don't want the white to show, I'd rather blend it. So, should I sand it with 600 grit to finish it off, or is like 220 ok? Whatever will get it to looking as close to the pic I posted in my first comment is what I want to do. Is a rub on stain good? I would rather rub/wipe it in than use a brush, as my poor purdy brush has seen better days. lol!


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Yeah, I agree. I'm going to sand it all down and then I'll take another pic, but I definitely don't want the white to show, I'd rather blend it. So, should I sand it with 600 grit to finish it off, or is like 220 ok? Whatever will get it to looking as close to the pic I posted in my first comment is what I want to do. Is a rub on stain good? I would rather rub/wipe it in than use a brush, as my poor purdy brush has seen better days. lol!


No, 320 grit will be fine as long as you sand with the grain, I'm thinking that it might be best to first stain the center to desired color and tape of the light edges at first, then put one coat of finish down on the walnut and then unmask the light-wood so you can mess around with stains to to bring it as close as possible to the rest of the table. You can use oil colors from the art store to mix the stains, just by a small can of japan drier and add a several drops or so to help it harden once applied, make sure to wipe off all the excess stain, don't build up the color, you can always add more color once it's sealed in with clear to glaze on. If you want a deep clear transparent look instead, you can then go with dyes first and then over-color the dye with a pigmented stain if you want it a little darker. There are other ways also but were getting ahead of the game lol, get it sanded and whetted and pics and lets see ok?


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

That's interesting about oil colors, I never knew! I seriously feel like an idiot, I don't know anything about staining! Oh, and I work at a hardware store in the paint dept. Haha! Why in the world did the person who made this coffee table use two different colors of wood on the top and then just stain it an even color? Weird. Anyway, should I sand down the legs and the "slats" underneath also? What would you do? Thanks for all of the advice.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> That's interesting about oil colors, I never knew! I seriously feel like an idiot, I don't know anything about staining! Oh, and I work at a hardware store in the paint dept. Haha! Why in the world did the person who made this coffee table use two different colors of wood on the top and then just stain it an even color? Weird. Anyway, should I sand down the legs and the "slats" underneath also? What would you do? Thanks for all of the advice.


Actually not many people use artist oils for staining but industrial colors in oil, mainly the umber's and sienna's along with others like van **** brown, but in your case not much is needed and they only sell the industrial ones in quarts.

The "uniformity" was probably necessary because the width of the wood was necessary for proportioning the table, wider boards might not have been available in large amounts so use of walnut sapwood edges gave it the necessary width. I'm almost positive that it's solid not veneer and the sap wood gave it the width needed or it may be that "some" were done with natural sapwood edges and some not. Personally i love the contrast between the two, it off sets the walnut beautifully and is still walnut. 

As to the rest of the table, the problem still remains with blending in whatever you do to the top, you may get away with not doing the rungs, but the stretchers you've already started and the legs would be advisable. Depends on how much time you want or desire to spend on the project.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Can I keep you? lol That was an awesome answer, very helpful. I may actually end up liking the color difference in the end.  I hear people talking about "general finishes". Is that a good brand of stain? What is your opinion on water based stains?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Can I keep you? lol That was an awesome answer, very helpful. I may actually end up liking the color difference in the end.  I hear people talking about "general finishes". Is that a good brand of stain? What is your opinion on water based stains?


You can keep me if either Shawn or brit don't mind, lol. :laughing:

But you have to keep me in the manner i would like to get accustomed to - :laughing:

I'm not familiar with general finishes as far as there use. i make all my own stains so i can control them as to drying fast or slow among other things. Water-base stains i have used for decades but only on special needs basis, they are fine once again if you know how to control them as to drying and such. Personally i prefer water soluble dyes over stains for the clarity and depth and brightness and then when necessary they can be gone over with pigmented or water stains to mellow or warm the dye color, pretty much standard procedures for factories doing first class work or at least the use of NGR stains that are water soluble dyes in fast drying liquids mixed with water so as not raise the grain to any degree. NGR [non grain raising] which is something you will have to contend with if you decide to use any water-base products. we wil get to that after you decide what route you wish to go ok?


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Very interesting. I wouldn't mind using water soluble dyes, but like I said, I've never used them. I'll google now, and try youtube too. Almost done sanding down the darn thing, I'll get back to you tomorrow with a pic.  PS: I'm SO glad I stumbled onto this site.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Very interesting. I wouldn't mind using water soluble dyes, but like I said, I've never used them. I'll google now, and try youtube too. Almost done sanding down the darn thing, I'll get back to you tomorrow with a pic.  PS: I'm SO glad I stumbled onto this site.


Sorry to hear you stumbled, hope your ok? lol.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Haha! It hurt in a good way. lol! Anyway, still doing last minute sanding and then I will take a pic. I found out the top is veneered... the hard way. :/ BUT it's only a tiny edge that is sanded down, so not too bad.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Haha! It hurt in a good way. lol! Anyway, still doing last minute sanding and then I will take a pic. I found out the top is veneered... the hard way. :/ BUT it's only a tiny edge that is sanded down, so not too bad.


OUCH!! sorry to hear that, ones i've worked on were solid tops, but i guess it depends on where and who manufactured them. Well at least the legs and stretchers will be solid. that also indicates that the use of the sapwood was intentional not governed by solid wood width perameters. 

Ok make sure when you wipe the table down you inspect to be sure all of the old finish is removed so there will be no chance of the color not taking evenly when stained ok? water will show up any areas that still ahve finish on them and you can sand them off.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

So, I've wiped the table down and all of the finish is off the top for sure but there are tiny spots here and there on the bottom part. I'm so sick of sanding, I think it will blend in once I stain it... RIGHT??  Here are a couple pics: 
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...980904282_1254356085_32633364_432017370_o.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...0983584349_1254356085_32633365_23385440_o.jpg


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

I know the two toned wood looks cool, but I really want it to all have one solid color. I'm stain lingo handicapped so is there any way to make this work within reason and not use dyes? I'm just scared to jump in to it when I know nothing about it and then mess up my coffee table. Will traditional stain blend the two wood tones?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> I know the two toned wood looks cool, but I really want it to all have one solid color. I'm stain lingo handicapped so is there any way to make this work within reason and not use dyes? I'm just scared to jump in to it when I know nothing about it and then mess up my coffee table. Will traditional stain blend the two wood tones?


Top looks good, As to sanding, i would take the time if i were you, it's not that easy to blend spots in when the original color still remains ok? looks to me like less than an hours work to go over any missed or incomplete areas, but i will leave it up to you ok?

Yes traditional stains can work, and i understand your concerns with new colors or methods, they are best learned on samples not actual projects at hand.Would you like to use oil colors or are you thinking canned colors from your store or what?

get back i will be gone for a few hours though. :yes:


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, I really would like to use a few coats of watco danish oil in the walnut color and then top it with a low gloss tung oil, but I don't know what kind of coverage the danish oil gives, or if it is too translucent and wouldn't blend the two wood tones. I would be willing to use a can of stain, but would like it to be the wipe on stain. I don't want to use a brush if at all possible. I would like it to be a nice warm brown like most danish pieces from the mid century, but not too orange, like teak tends to look. Man, I sound picky. lol


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Wait, what? Spam??? Why would I post spam? lol


Your initial posts seemed like it because you linked to a commercial site, and your pictures required a download to view them. You also didn't list a location. So, that's the way it appeared.



shawnandbrit07 said:


> I know the two toned wood looks cool, but I really want it to all have one solid color. I'm stain lingo handicapped so is there any way to make this work within reason and not use dyes? I'm just scared to jump in to it when I know nothing about it and then mess up my coffee table. Will traditional stain blend the two wood tones?


A simple method that may work for you would be to pick up the tiny cans of Minwax oil base stains that are close to what you are looking for. Check out the colors* here*. I'm suggesting oil base as it will give a good working time...compared to other bases.

You may want to mix two or more together. If you start with just mineral spirits, and add stain slowly trying each mix, you can come up with a stain color that will bring the light color close to the dark. You can graduate the intensity of the color on the light wood. I would have that wood abraded to at least 180x - 220x, sanding with the grain.

For test pieces, you can turn the table upside down and try small areas. Use a small brush along the line of the light/dark to boarder the color against the dark. Apply the balance of the area with a small rag. Let the stain sit briefly and wipe off. Using tape may allow the stain to bleed under it, which will deepen the dark color. When you color the wood and think it's right on, using your topcoat which will cover both the light and dark may change what the stained area looks like. It's better to work out the problems before doing the topside.












 







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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Well, I really would like to use a few coats of watco danish oil in the walnut color and then top it with a low gloss tung oil, but I don't know what kind of coverage the danish oil gives, or if it is too translucent and wouldn't blend the two wood tones. I would be willing to use a can of stain, but would like it to be the wipe on stain. I don't want to use a brush if at all possible. I would like it to be a nice warm brown like most danish pieces from the mid century, but not too orange, like teak tends to look. Man, I sound picky. lol


Hmmm..... well my dear, you already have a center section of walnut that is reddish brown and darker than teak to begin with - adding a watco or minwax walnut stain will not blend in the sap wood, professionally speaking i would personally have to bleach it to get what you want or in the ballpark with what you want to use as stain, so again i will leave it up to you as to not just what you desire, but whats possible as the table color sits as of now ok?:yes:


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> Your initial posts seemed like it because you linked to a commercial site, and your pictures required a download to view them. You also didn't list a location. So, that's the way it appeared.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi, Cabinetman! Thanks so much for the advice, this sounds really tricky. I totally get why you thought I was a spammer now.  For some reason, this site doesn't allow me to download photos, so I have to link them to my facebook photos and that works, but then it downloads it for some reason. Annoying! Anyhoo, I will definitely test it out on an inconspicuous area first. If I mess up the stain, is there any way to "erase" and restart? lol I wonder how it was initially stained because somehow they got the stain to be even. But that was back in the 50's, who knows. It was probably something that would cause cancer today so they no longer sell it. :/


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

chemmy said:


> Hmmm..... well my dear, you already have a center section of walnut that is reddish brown and darker than teak to begin with - adding a watco or minwax walnut stain will not blend in the sap wood, professionally speaking i would personally have to bleach it to get what you want or in the ballpark with what you want to use as stain, so again i will leave it up to you as to not just what you desire, but whats possible as the table color sits as of now ok?:yes:


I know, I know. I am beginning to worry that it is hopeless to have it one color. That's it, I'm spray painting it! lol, juuuuuuust kidding. I've gone this far, I want to do it right. Is bleaching hard to do? I'd feel like I was commiting a crime, as the walnut is so beautiful.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

How do you think they did it in this pic? This is the same coffee table as mine, just refinished. I am thinking about just contacting "mid century mobler" and asking them. What could it hurt?? lol Oh, and by the way, i found out this coffee table is from Bassett's Artisan series.
http://midcenturymobler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IMG_9710.jpg


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> How do you think they did it in this pic? This is the same coffee table as mine, just refinished. I am thinking about just contacting "mid century mobler" and asking them. What could it hurt?? lol Oh, and by the way, i found out this coffee table is from Bassett's Artisan series.
> http://midcenturymobler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IMG_9710.jpg


Lot of reflection hard to tell but most likely it's just toned in with dye or lacquer toner [dye and lacquer] If you want to take c'mans suggestion that's fine, my way would have you use doing a lot of extra work that your not familiar with.

With color, it's a matter of experimentation. It's not like anyone here having to make a scratch color or two just slaps it together in 5 minutes, it's a process where in your case you know the color of the bare natural wood and it contains reddish/orangish/ brownish color. There fore i would start with either orange, red and yellow, and black to darken it with and then adjust each color as necessary for the dark light sap parts of the table part of your table, then thin the same stain out 20 parts or more with the appropriate thinner and apply just a hint of color to the dark portion to help blend in the two differences. 

then seal and apply a pigment stain using like colors if the sap needed more tweaking, and continue till i was satisfied of a good match.

In your case i know your looking for the easiest way out, but there really is none if you wish to harmonize the two colors. Even with bleaching there is no guarantee that the two colors would be a perfect blend, at times i have run into walnuts that don't bleach easy and require further treatments. 

Still happy you "stumbled" on to here, :laughing:

OUCH!! You didn't have to hit me that hard!!:no:


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Why is it all blotchy like that?? I used Watco Danish oil in medium walnut and taped off the edges so I could get the light color to as close to the darker color as possible and now this! So, apparently it needs a wood conditioner?? I thought it was walnut sapwood so why is it doing this?? UGH.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...885366893_1254356085_32633623_152997667_o.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...79126737_1254356085_32633619_2065475163_o.jpg


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

I am seriously freaking out right now! It's still wet, is there a way to get the stain off while wet? Or am I hosed?


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Anybody?... Hello? I'm scared!


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Anybody?... Hello? I'm scared!


sorry just got back from store. Yes it looks like blotching, and you will need conditioner. the problem now is trying to get the excess stain out of the dark parts - not easy and sometimes not possible especially with dye stains. Try getting some 4-0000 steel wool and lacquer thinner and denatured alcohol and paper towels and get as much out of the dark areas as possible ok? Lac thinner first/alcohol last.

Next get some oxyclean and a small brsu after tops died and put it on the dark areas only as much as possible ok? will see where were at from there.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

What are you doing chemmy. You know this guy needs you and your running around at the store. 
You need to stay and wait for him. He's counting on you. 
That poor guy. Lol


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> What are you doing chemmy. You know this guy needs you and your running around at the store.
> You need to stay and wait for him. He's counting on you.
> That poor guy. Lol


My bad................... my hunger out weighed my sense of duty, so don't count on me if a war breaks out here ok??? lol


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

chemmy said:


> My bad................... my hunger out weighed my sense of duty, so don't count on me if a war breaks out here ok??? lol


Lol. Your doing a good job with him. Lots of pretty technical Things to do for someone that's a newbie. Restoring and refinishing is a craft on its own. 
If it was me. Since I hate stain. I would of sanded all down to bare and finished with a danish oil then a desired clear coat. But that's just me.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Lol. Your doing a good job with him. Lots of pretty technical Things to do for someone that's a newbie. Restoring and refinishing is a craft on its own.
> If it was me. Since I hate stain. I would of sanded all down to bare and finished with a danish oil then a desired clear coat. But that's just me.


That would have been the simplest for sure. I don't know if it's Shawn or Brit I'm talking to? It seems like a woman not a man, ooops...that will probably get me into trouble to, lol. :yes:


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Haha! Seriously, Chemmy, you can't do that to me again!  And ps: I'm a girl. I tried to get most of the blotching off but don't have any solvent on hand. I do have oops, which has solvents in it, so I'm using the steel wool with that and it's doing an ok job. There are still leopard spots though.  Once the stain dries, I'm going to sand like crazy. Blah.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Haha! Seriously, Chemmy, you can't do that to me again!  And ps: I'm a girl. I tried to get most of the blotching off but don't have any solvent on hand. I do have oops, which has solvents in it, so I'm using the steel wool with that and it's doing an ok job. There are still leopard spots though.  Once the stain dries, I'm going to sand like crazy. Blah.


I'm glad to hear both, now i don't feel strange about you being a guy asking to keep me lol. after it's dry tomorrow get some oxyclean and if you have chlorine bleach [clorox] will try to get it as light as possible ok?

I have to go for 10 min----- so don't be "scared ok? lol.:tongue_smilie:

PS: the need for the lacquer thinner is to insure there is no urethane in those areas which will stop the bleaches from working - and the alcohol to hopefully loosen more of the dye up for removal ok? oooooooooooops is ok for some things but not this particular problem.also dont sand yet, your gonna go through the veener if you keep sanding ok? first things first


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

K I'll try not to get too scared. Hehe. So I'm guessing you're a guy, Chemmy? My name's Brittany, btw.  So, do I mix the oxiclean and bleach? It's actually going to blend really well if only it wouldn't be blotchy. I wetted down some of the walnut next to the sapwood w/ the Danish oil and it looked like the same color! One side looks better than the other so I may just keep the one side and redo the other. It's weird that it turned out tha way since it's a hardwood. Isn't sapwood walnut a hardwood?


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

I meant I wetted down the walnut with water next to the stained side. Hope that makes sense.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> K I'll try not to get too scared. Hehe. So I'm guessing you're a guy, Chemmy? My name's Brittany, btw.  So, do I mix the oxiclean and bleach? It's actually going to blend really well if only it wouldn't be blotchy. I wetted down some of the walnut next to the sapwood w/ the Danish oil and it looked like the same color! One side looks better than the other so I may just keep the one side and redo the other. It's weird that it turned out tha way since it's a hardwood. Isn't sapwood walnut a hardwood?


Yes the light sap wood is the outer layers of the tree and the dark wood is called the heart, as the tree ages the inner sap rings next to the dark heart keep getting darker and the new outer growth continus to be light. All in each tree to differing degrees.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> I meant I wetted down the walnut with water next to the stained side. Hope that makes sense.


 it makes sense in a "girly" sort of way :laughing:


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> K I'll try not to get too scared. Hehe. So I'm guessing you're a guy, Chemmy? My name's Brittany, btw.  So, do I mix the oxiclean and bleach? It's actually going to blend really well if only it wouldn't be blotchy. I wetted down some of the walnut next to the sapwood w/ the Danish oil and it looked like the same color! One side looks better than the other so I may just keep the one side and redo the other. It's weird that it turned out tha way since it's a hardwood. Isn't sapwood walnut a hardwood?


no you'll use the perborate first [oxyclean]/ then the bleach, it may take several applications.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Hey! Lol So since the sapwood is the outer layers, is it softer?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Hey! Lol So since the sapwood is the outer layers, is it softer?


Yes to a degree, but its makeup is every bit walnut, it just hasn't matured and produced the cromophores [color] of the heartwood. It needs to remain a little softer for the sap to more easily run through it and keep it alive and growing. Each year a new layer of sapwood grows - that how the tree gets biger/fatter.

[basic info, not detailed guys so don't come complaining all that i'm leaving out!!!! lol.]


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

UGH. Just ugh. I sanded down that whole side today and it was pretty much bare wood again. I thought, it shouldn't be blotchy THIS time, so I just put some more danish oil on the freshly sanded side. Yeah, now it's WORSE. WTF!!! I could cry.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> UGH. Just ugh. I sanded down that whole side today and it was pretty much bare wood again. I thought, it shouldn't be blotchy THIS time, so I just put some more danish oil on the freshly sanded side. Yeah, now it's WORSE. WTF!!! I could cry.


Just send it to chemmy Britney. He will take care of it. Lol
Wish I could help. But chemmy would get jeleous. Baahaahaaaa


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Hahaha!! Yeah, Chemmy would definitely be the man for the job, sorry Dominick. LOL! Anyway, here's an update. I went hog wild and put one coat of danish oil on the walnut veneer and the "good side" looks so good but the side with leopard spots from hell still looks like crap. Sooooo now that I know that the two wood colors are going to blend rather nicely, I am going to sand down the crappy side once more once the danish oil dries and I am going to use wood conditioner on it. We'll see what happens, but I really am happy that the colors are blending so nicely! Here's a pic:

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...88869478_1254356085_32635796_1173654197_o.jpg


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Thank god. Lol 
Starting to look pretty good.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Dominick said:


> Thank god. Lol
> Starting to look pretty good.


I agree. I was about to use it for firewood... and I don't even have a fireplace. Ha! Anyway, do you have any guesses as to why that side is like a zebra on crack?? It's so weird, I sanded it down this morning to redo it and made it so nice and smooth, but then this second time it turned out like ten times worse. So weird.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

It's so hard to say brit. You've done so much to that top and changed finishing. Adding and taking away. 
It's hard to actually know what's really going on. 
CHEMMY WHEAR ARE YOU ?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Oops, sorry guys. I phrased it incorrectly. Let me show you a pic of what I'm talking about: http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/29745-danish-modern-bassett-surfboard-coffee-t


We had that exact coffee table when we first married. Used it for many years then it was relagated to the attic and then on to our daughter. Long gone now.

George


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Dominick said:


> It's so hard to say brit. You've done so much to that top and changed finishing. Adding and taking away.
> It's hard to actually know what's really going on.
> CHEMMY WHEAR ARE YOU ?


True, I have definitely "had my way" with it. Poor table, it didn't deserve this. It has the potential to be a really beautiful piece but with me being broke and having no finishing skillz, this is all I can come up with. Should I use a polyurethane once the danish oil cures? I bought some tung oil but I'm not in love with the idea that I will have to redo it every 2 years. Also, I want it to be nice and waterproof, since there will most likely be drinks on it every once in a blue moon. Polyurethane is super durable, which is nice too.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Dominick said:


> It's so hard to say brit. You've done so much to that top and changed finishing. Adding and taking away.
> It's hard to actually know what's really going on.
> CHEMMY WHEAR ARE YOU ?





GeorgeC said:


> We had that exact coffee table when we first married. Used it for many years then it was relagated to the attic and then on to our daughter. Long gone now.
> 
> George


It's a good coffee table and now days, the danish mid century modern look is super popular and you could get a pretty penny for it.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Dominick said:


> CHEMMY WHEAR ARE YOU ?


Yeah, Chemmy! What gives?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Yeah, Chemmy! What gives?


What gives? A cow when it's udder is full, A chicken when it's time to lay eggs, A human to another human when he can and has time and is able-----------------------------now i have time, lol 

Hi, Brit, miss me or despise me, i'm here, lol. :yes:

Looked at pic, getting worse for sure, need close ups as close as you can get with cam, want to make sure you haven't sanded through the veneer and what is showing is glue, don't think so but until i know, hard to move forward ok? take them of the darkest parts and show both the dark part and a little of the whiter part ok? try to make sure the focus is as sharp as possible. 

Thanks, and thank you to Dom, also:thumbsup:


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Good your back. I can relax again. 
Your in good hands now Brit. Pay attention and look at it this way, your learning. Most people wouldn't do what your doing. 
Pat yourself on the back. Everything will be fine. We have faith in you.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Aww, yay! He returneth! Ang guess what... I have to go to work now. lol But I'll be back in 4 hours, 9pm my time. I'm in Spokane WA, so I'm not sure the time difference. I'll try to get back to you on my break at work too.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Good your back. I can relax again.
> Your in good hands now Brit. Pay attention and look at it this way, your learning. Most people wouldn't do what your doing.
> Pat yourself on the back. Everything will be fine. We have faith in you.


Yeah i'm back but now Brits vacated, lol.

I don't know if everything will be fine or not but i'll do what i can do to keep it on track, always difficult when your not right there to determine the visual things one can detect when present. normally when see the splotch starting to disappear and it turning inot a more uniform dark color with no grain [in pics] it's not a good sign, hope this is not the case. But my post will attest to the fact that i warned her not to sand anymore till we tried the bleaching, lol. Impatients is not a virtue, lol.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Aww, yay! He returneth! Ang guess what... I have to go to work now. lol But I'll be back in 4 hours, 9pm my time. I'm in Spokane WA, so I'm not sure the time difference. I'll try to get back to you on my break at work too.


ok, it's 3 hr. diff from there to here in kentucky i think EST?


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Lol. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him/her drink it. I'm glad your here to help. 
It's a learning curve at this point. 
I also give her credit.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Lol. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him/her drink it. I'm glad your here to help.
> It's a learning curve at this point.
> I also give her credit.


I don't know if i would give her credit or not, have to check with exqifax first, but i might allow her to put it on lay-a-way, lol.:laughing:


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Guess what I've been up to?!!
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...33210584_1254356085_32636947_1862200898_o.jpg


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Stubborn leopard spots, go away!
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...35930652_1254356085_32636950_1555560859_o.jpg


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

You can see I hit the veneer just in that spot. Hopefully it will blend in. Now I'm going to condition the wood, right? I bought a minwax wood conditioner yesterday, along with some wipe on poly. I was going to use tung oil but I want it to be durable and I don't want to have to redo every few years. Thoughts?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> You can see I hit the veneer just in that spot. Hopefully it will blend in. Now I'm going to condition the wood, right? I bought a minwax wood conditioner yesterday, along with some wipe on poly. I was going to use tung oil but I want it to be durable and I don't want to have to redo every few years. Thoughts?


Always wet the wood down before doing more work so you can see more easily what you really dealing with ok? to me from what i can tell, there is still a lot of dark yet in smaller proportions, just make sure it's something you can live with like the other side ok? then condition it.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> You can see I hit the veneer just in that spot. Hopefully it will blend in. Now I'm going to condition the wood, right? I bought a minwax wood conditioner yesterday, along with some wipe on poly. I was going to use tung oil but I want it to be durable and I don't want to have to redo every few years. Thoughts?


Have you used wipe on poly before?


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

chemmy said:


> Have you used wipe on poly before?


No, I haven't. Is it hard to use?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> No, I haven't. Is it hard to use?


If you follow directions you should be ok, i prefer a vey soft cloth like cotton folded up myself but since i don't wipe on finishes often except for french polish, i will have to deffer to what they reccomend.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Awesomesauce.  I am so stoked to finally finish the thing. I'm using a satin wipe on poly because gloss would be a bit much and would probably make all of the discrepancies of the wood look worse. Wipe on poly will work ok over danish oil, right?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Awesomesauce.  I am so stoked to finally finish the thing. I'm using a satin wipe on poly because gloss would be a bit much and would probably make all of the discrepancies of the wood look worse. Wipe on poly will work ok over danish oil, right?


 
Correct as long as its dry. :yes:


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Awesomesauce lol. 
I can surely say that I've never heard that before. 
I saw your pics and it's looking a whole lot better. 
I think you've got this pretty much whipped. 
Can't wait to see more pics.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

So, I decided I was going to try gel stain and it actually looks really good! I know that gel stain is a lot like paint, but in this instance, paint is necessary. I initially used the wood conditioner and tried a tiny spot of the danish oil again and the exact same thing happened again! So, that's when I figured I'd try gel stain. And it isn't blotchy anymore, thank the good Lord. It's still wet so it looks uneven, but it looks SO much better than it did. Hold on, I'll get a pic here in a sec.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Here's a pic. The weird side is still drying, so it looks a little "off". 
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...88251959_1254356085_32637737_1358949440_o.jpg


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Here's a pic. The weird side is still drying, so it looks a little "off".
> http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...88251959_1254356085_32637737_1358949440_o.jpg


The main thing is whether your happy with it or not Brit, if you are, then finish it off and and enjoy. If not, then there are still options, so put the clear on and let's see what the orphan looks like with clothes on ok? ol


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Sounds good. I think I'm happy with it. I can't imagine trying to strip it one more time. I will for sure take some pics once it's got some poly on it. How long should I let it dry before poly? I want to make sure it's completely dry. Maybe 3 days?


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Sounds good. I think I'm happy with it. I can't imagine trying to strip it one more time. I will for sure take some pics once it's got some poly on it. How long should I let it dry before poly? I want to make sure it's completely dry. Maybe 3 days?


Follow the directions on your gel stain, and also make sure it says you can wipe on a finish, if not then you may have to spray a coat on first - get a spray can for that ok? once it's locked in then you can wipe the rest of the coats on ok? be sure to sand inbetween clearcoat applications alright? fine paper like 600


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Update!! So, I just put 6 coats of wipe on poly in Satin on the coffee table and it looks fabulous... Except for that stupid side. And the problem is that when I sanded that side down *twice*, I used my power sander (BAD IDEA) because I was impatient. So, the coloring isn't that uneven but you can see all the dips in the wood where I sanded unevenly. It looks like I went crazy and started carving the wood or something. The poly definitely shows all of the discrepancies.  BUT the rest of it looks really good. I am really bummed that I sanded it down in such an ugly way, I didn't even realize at the time the damage that I was doing. But I've lived and learned and now I know exactly what NOT to do on my next project. I wish I could rewind time though. lol. So, the last coat of satin is drying right now, I'll get a pic up in a few, once it's dry. It looks more like a semi-gloss though. Is there any way to dull up the finish? I have heard that I can "rub out" the finish with steel wool, but with my luck, I'd really mess it up. Wouldn't there be scratches if I did that?? And I'm figuring that I need to wait until it has cured for like a month anyway.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Is there such a thing as a self leveling wood filler? I am trying to figure out if maybe I could get the wonky side to be smooth again without a lot of extra hassle. Here, I'll take a pic really quick so you know what I'm dealing with.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Update!! So, I just put 6 coats of wipe on poly in Satin on the coffee table and it looks fabulous... Except for that stupid side. And the problem is that when I sanded that side down *twice*, I used my power sander (BAD IDEA) because I was impatient. So, the coloring isn't that uneven but you can see all the dips in the wood where I sanded unevenly. It looks like I went crazy and started carving the wood or something. The poly definitely shows all of the discrepancies.  BUT the rest of it looks really good. I am really bummed that I sanded it down in such an ugly way, I didn't even realize at the time the damage that I was doing. But I've lived and learned and now I know exactly what NOT to do on my next project. I wish I could rewind time though. lol. So, the last coat of satin is drying right now, I'll get a pic up in a few, once it's dry. It looks more like a semi-gloss though. Is there any way to dull up the finish? I have heard that I can "rub out" the finish with steel wool, but with my luck, I'd really mess it up. Wouldn't there be scratches if I did that?? And I'm figuring that I need to wait until it has cured for like a month anyway.


Thanks for the follow up Brit, 

Like with any other trade, there is so much to learn at first and to try and learn it all at once and expect it to turn out even close to perfect is rarely something one can accomplish. I surely didn't!!

I look back on this myself and think we didn't even go over what type of equipment you were using to sand with, i just assumed you were hand sanding with a block hopefully, and of course any time i assume anything I'm usually wrong to one degree or another for the larger part. 

You have made no mistakes that thousands of others have not made taking on something new and for all practical purposes unknown. I give you lay-a-way, [not credit,lol] for doing as good as you have done, and i will give you one last lesson that you can bank on, buy a good book on the subject that explains each and every step one should take from first to last and why, armed with that info i can assure you, if followed, your next attempt will be much more to your liking. 

Just "knowing" the "whats" of something isn't good enough unless the "whys" are known along with it. To that, add personal experience gained with every new job and in not to long you will be good at what you do. Experience is always the best teacher.

As to dulling the finish, yes please wait a few weeks or more just to be sure it's good and hard before doing anything else ok?

Sincerely, 

Chemmy.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Here's a pic of what I'm now dealing with:
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...69831490_1254356085_32643862_1432065482_o.jpg

Every other aspect of this table turned out better than I could've ever dreamed, but this side just doesn't look right. Is there like an epoxy or wood filler that will fill in all of the inconsistencies?


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Thank you, Chemmy. That was so uplifting! And I should've mentioned that I was using an orbital sander. (Or just not used one!!) Thank you for dealing with my whining during the process and giving sound advice!


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Hey Brit. The table looks good. The finish is smooth. I don't think it looks glossy at all I wouldn't rub out that finish. It looks fine. Just not really sure how that edge got so ripply. How wide is that coffee table? Maybe you could rip that edge off completely. I don't know. Your doing a good job though. Keep on learning and like chemmy said read about finishes. 
We're still waiting for that book to come out chemmy.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

LOL, the "finishing book" is a long way off Dom., This one is all about color and formulas both old and new, meant to be a go to book for color work although there is some on proper prep and "myth" conceptions of sanding along with other must know things that will help get you where your going color-wise and looks-wise. Book number 2 will be where i get into finishes and and all else ok? 3rd book chemistry for the professional finisher, 4th any and all else not covered specifically in the first three and any updates on new materials coming on the market at that time - 4 in all.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I'm looking forward to that 1st edition. 
Thanks.


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## shawnandbrit07 (Mar 27, 2012)

Hey, Dominick! The side got ripply when I sanded out the blotches. I feel like such an idiot for using a power sander, I've done more harm than good.  I didn't even realize at the time what I was doing to it. But now there's no going back. The rest of it looks really good, just that lip looks like crap. That is actually a really good idea to cut the edge off, but then I'll have to cut the other side off too. I wonder how hard that would be? There are no other options, you think? I wish there were some kind of compound that I could smooth on it that would self level. Someone needs to invent something like that. Chemmy? Lol.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> Hey, Dominick! The side got ripply when I sanded out the blotches. I feel like such an idiot for using a power sander, I've done more harm than good.  I didn't even realize at the time what I was doing to it. But now there's no going back. The rest of it looks really good, just that lip looks like crap. That is actually a really good idea to cut the edge off, but then I'll have to cut the other side off too. I wonder how hard that would be? There are no other options, you think? I wish there were some kind of compound that I could smooth on it that would self level. Someone needs to invent something like that. Chemmy? Lol.


LOL, actually Brit, someone has, more than one, they are pourable self-leveling materials both epoxies and acrylic polyesters. But they are both expensive and not something i would recommend for you to use at your stage of experience. Plus you would have to pour the entire table not just spot in one area. That would dramatically change the overall appearance as to what you have now ok?

If deciding to "cut the edges off, it can be done, but keep in mind it might easily mess up the adjoining center panel edges and would most likely require touch up and of course redoing the new edges as well. I would also not attempt it yourself but take it to a shop with a table saw and someone who has done such things before so as to not mess your existing finish up OK?

Chemmy


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

shawnandbrit07 said:


> That is actually a really good idea to cut the edge off, but then I'll have to cut the other side off too. I wonder how hard that would be?


If you (or someone else) cuts off the edge, you'll have a raw edge with sharp corners. Then it would necessitate sanding (or shaping) an eased edge, or slightly radiused. That would entail sanding into the already finished main top, and re-doing whatever finishing (coloring) to match if necessary.

Some finishes when a build gets developed can exaggerate the look to appear ripply, something like a fiddleback look. The surface could be smooth.










 







.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Still wondering what the width of the table is and how wide is the rippled edge. That would determine if it's worth cutting off. After ripping that edge of. You could use a round over router bit and run it down the edge. Or just simply sand it round. Poor table. Lol this table has been threw a lot. Hopefully Britney can get this table to a point of her liking it.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Don't know the demensions, but i can assure you it would look out of proportion as to the base if done. you settle one issue but create another.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

chemmy said:


> Don't know the demensions, but i can assure you it would look out of proportion as to the base if done. you settle one issue but create another.


Yea I can agree on that. Just a thought.


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## crazytiki (Jan 25, 2011)

All I have to say is the table looks Great the little imperfections are yours to remind you of all the work you did and some people pay money for that look. Great job Britt. And Thank you Chemmy for all the info I will be using your tip on some of my upcoming projects.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

crazytiki said:


> All I have to say is the table looks Great the little imperfections are yours to remind you of all the work you did and some people pay money for that look. Great job Britt. And Thank you Chemmy for all the info I will be using your tip on some of my upcoming projects.


Well that's a "crazy" idea, lol

Thx, crazy. :yes:


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