# Stihl MS650



## djg

I found another CL listing for a Stihl MS 650 saw. Seems to be a new model. I think is just slightly smaller than a MS660. Is that the only difference? Or is it made of cheaper components?
It only comes with a 18" bar, add another $75 to the price for a longer bar and chain.


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## slabmaster

*ms065*

Odd numbered Stihl saws are not pro quality. I stay away from them alltogether. I only buy even numbered Stihls for durability reasons as i do alot of milling with mine. For the homeowner, they might be ok though.


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## TexasTimbers

Stihl uses "MS" in front of odd numbered models to indicate "Mediocre Saw".





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## djg

TexasTimbers said:


> Stihl uses "MS" in front of odd numbered models to indicate "Mediocre Saw".


I know you're joking, but the MS really doesn't infer a lesser grade saw does it? I've seen MS660 which I thought replaced the 066. The 660 is a professional saw? I could believe the idea that non-professional saw are denoted by odd numbers.


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## TexasTimbers

MS is the abbreviation for one of the German words for chain saw - Motorsäge. I *think* MotorSäge is a more detailed name for KettenSäge . "Ketten" being "chain" and so the combination of the two is motor saw. Dunno why they chose MS over KS. 


Yes I was kidding about them being "mediocre". Stihl makes a great saw. Some models are better than others like all manufacturer's line of saws. 






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## mrbentontoyou

the number 650 is even, not odd,

and regardless the ms650 is a pro saw.

it's about 6cc's and 1/2 a horsepower down on the ms660. 

441 *is* an odd number, and the ms441 is also a pro saw:

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/professional.html

good luck with the sale djg.


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## djg

mrbentontoyou said:


> the number 650 is even, not odd,
> 
> and regardless the ms650 is a pro saw.
> 
> it's about 6cc's and 1/2 a horsepower down on the ms660.
> 
> 441 *is* an odd number, and the ms441 is also a pro saw:
> 
> http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/professional.html
> 
> good luck with the sale djg.


Yes I know '650' is an even number, but like stated, I too thought if the 2nd digit was 'odd' then it was considered more of a homeowner version than a professional saw. So now I'm confused. This saw is gone I'm sure, but the selling point in the ad was that it was a cheaper (less expensive) alternative to the 660. And why would Stihl produce a saw only slightly smaller than the 660? It really wouldn't fill a niche.


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## mrbentontoyou

djg said:


> And why would Stihl produce a saw only slightly smaller than the 660?


makes sense to me that they have an 85cc saw and a 91 cc saw. 
both are a significant step up from the ms460 (about 75cc's). people that would like a bigger saw than the 460 but don't want to pony up the premium for the 660 have the 650. it's like when you buy a pickup and you can choose the stock motor, the big motor, or the bigger motor.

husqvarna is "worse" in this respect, they have two pro models in the mid 70cc range, the 372 and the 576, and between the different versions of those models you are looking at 6 different saws with a difference of 0.3hp!

they also have the 385xp at 84.7cc and 6.3hp; 
and the 390xp at 87.9cc and 6.5hp... a lot more closely matched than the stihl saws, but all are pro models. 

so who knows what they're thinking.

my theory is that they are inundating us with this informational overload of model numbers and specs to distract us from the prices of these things!:laughing:

-Roger


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## djg

mrbentontoyou said:


> my theory is that they are inundating us with this informational overload of model numbers and specs to distract us from the prices of these things!:laughing:
> -Roger


Wish I now would have looked into that saw when it was available.

And as to your theory, your probably right.


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## TexasTimbers

I was told some time back by my local dealer (who dropped Stihl and Husky a long time ago) that all the new Stihl chainsaw models would be coming out with the MS designation in front, no matter the line i.e. residential/pro etc. Just repeating what he said though don't claim to know for sure. 

dj, as Roger says selecting a chainsaw is tricky. For example the 73.5cc 576 XP is rated at almost a half more horsepower than the somewhat smaller 70.7cc 372 XP, but with a 372 - even stock - I'll cut circles around a stock 576 every day. 

The 385 XP was several hundred dollars less than the 395 XP when I bought mine, but the power output is more substantial than what the rated horsepowers will tell you. At only roughly 3/4 HP more, the 395 is like in a category of it's own compared to the 385. 3/4 hp doesn't sound like much but it makes a big difference in the amount of work that can be accomplished and for only about 1.5 pounds more. But you can't use HP ratings as and end-all be-all. Saws don't perform that way. 


Then there's the two important areas of vibration and air filtration, and this is especially important in the bigger cc classes like this. Husqvarna used to own the anti-vibe technology but I think Stihl is finally getting better at it. I read on a forum that Husky's patents finally ran out so Stihl was able to essentially copy some of that design but again I don't know that for certain. 

One thing I do not believe Stihl has done is to design an air filtration that will come close to Husky's. I can cut all day without having to blow out the filter on my 395 and 372, but I've heard some beeyatch about their 441s 660's etc having to clean the filter several times a day. 

As I've stated many times I like saws from both manufacturers, but I seem to be drawn to more models of Husky. I do want a MS362 non green, and of course would love to have an older 070, 088 or 090. 







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## djg

Thanks, that's a lot of things to consider. Wish I now could have gotten that last 395 started I was looking at.


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## djg

I see some of you have a 394XP, and no offense to you users, but does this fall into that category you were talking about? That is, same specs as the 395XP (I think), but with a lesser performance. Or is it that the 394 simply preceded the 395; kind of like the 066 came before the 660 (again I think).


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## mrbentontoyou

the 394 preceded the 395. 
same displacement and hp rating (93.6cc's, 7.1hp).
not sure of the differences in the newer model. 

my only quarrel with my 394xp is that the chain tensioner screw is in a bad spot, i have to remove the saw from the alaskan mill to get to it. 
other than that it's great for milling- the saws and parts for them are abundant, they are easily tuned and they are reliable saws.


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## TexasTimbers

djg said:


> I see some of you have a 394XP . . . does this fall into that category . . . same specs as the 395XP . . . with a lesser performance. . . .


Some guys who've owned both say the 394 is a little more powerful and some say the 395. All things being equal I believe the 395 has more potential when modded if for no other reason than the 395 has 4 xfer ports and the 394 only 2. The 395 has a rubber intake manifold compared to the 394's hard plastic manifold which would sometimes create vapor lock in real hot conditions, especially if it was running on low octane fuel. Nothing but 93+ should be used in these larger cc saws. Really, that's all you should run in any 2 cycle IMO I even run it in my 2 cycle weedeaters. 




mrbentontoyou said:


> . . . my only quarrel with my 394xp is that the chain tensioner screw is in a bad spot . . .


Same with my 395 - in the front of the cover. Couldn't stand that at first but got used to it. Makes me glad I freehand mill hearing you say you have to remove your mill to get to it. I don't like the external clutch either but ya takes the good with the bad I reckon.






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## slabmaster

*huskys*

I have both 394&395 saws and find the 395 to be more powerful of the two. I have a 394 that is modded and it keeps up to my 395 because the transfer ports have been opened up into the case. But the 395 still has a bigger crank bearing and really responds well to a mufler mods. The chain tensioners are a pain when in the mills, but you can drill a hole in the mills truss to get great axcess to it.With that said, they are both great saws.


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## djg

Well, this thread has turned more into a Husky 394/395 than a Stihl 650. I probably should change the title or start a new thread. Several new questions popped into my mind.
I don't remember any recommendations, but do anyone else use premium gas in your saws? With the ethanol content of todays formulations, I wonder whether regular or premium burns hotter. Initially, I thought premium would, but maybe it contains more non-alcohol hydrocarbons, and thus burns a little cooler. Anything to keep the saw cooler is worth it to me.
Secondly, for Stihl and Huskys, do you use their respective oil for fuel mixture, or can you interchange them. Maybe a generic is ok too. I use the Stihl brand only, mainly because I don't go through a lot of it in a year and the extra insurance is nice. But if I were to get a Husky also, would I need to keep a separate can of gas? I would think not, just use a premium oil like Stihl or Husky, but I don't know. If I got a bigger saw, it would be for milling and then maybe the oil used would be more important.
Lastly, I searched the internet a little trying to find when the 394 was last made. Didn't have much luck. I could have joined the Arboristsite and asked them, they have a lot of discussions about different saws, but there way out of my league. Does anyone know? If I find a used 394, I'd like to know how old of a saw I'm looking at.


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## TexasTimbers

djg said:


> Thanks, that's a lot of things to consider. Wish I now could have gotten that last 395 started I was looking at.





djg said:


> I see some of you have a 394XP, and no offense to you users, but does this fall into that category you were talking about? That is, same specs as the 395XP (I think), but with a lesser performance. Or is it that the 394 simply preceded the 395; kind of like the 066 came before the 660 (again I think).





djg said:


> Well, this thread has turned more into a Husky 394/395 than a Stihl 650.


You seemed interested in them, did you not? 






djg said:


> I probably should change the title or start a new thread.


What for? It's still your thread if you have more questions. I got the impression your questions had been answered. 






djg said:


> . . . I wonder whether regular or premium burns hotter.


I've done some studying on this issue. I used to believe the higher octanes burned cooler because that's what most of the "experts" on the forums think. They are repeating wives tales but do not know it. Once you did deeper into the scientific white papers and stop relying on opinions on forums, you discover the various octanes all put out close to the same amount of BTU's. Higher octanes do resist detonation *longer* than lower octanes, but that doesn't effect internal temperatures very much at all. How many BTU's are generated will determine the heat not the octane rating. There's a lot to know about octane ratings and how it effects detonation (and pre-ignition) in 2 strokes. I believe Husky and Stihl both recommend 89. You'll have to decide for yourself. 






djg said:


> Secondly, for Stihl and Huskys, do you use their respective oil for fuel mixture, or can you interchange them.


I buy a case of Woodsman Pro from Bailey's Logging Supply. I believe Stihl requires the use of their brand oils or the warranty will not be honored. I yhink. If that's so then Husky probably does too. You might want to find that out if you buy a new one. 





djg said:


> But if I were to get a Husky also, would I need to keep a separate can of gas?


No. Unless you find out the warranty is voided by doing so. 






djg said:


> I could have joined the Arboristsite and asked them, they have a lot of discussions about different saws, but there way out of my league.


I have been a member there quite a while and only have like 40 posts or something. I read that site a lot though. IMO it's the single best resource for general chainsaw discussion on the net. You should join just so you can also view the images in the threads. They have them disabled unless you're signed in. Once you start posting and asking questions you should realize it's not the same level of civility we treat each other with here. Not saying you will get "flamed" but you should have a thick skin because some of the members will jerk your chain sometimes. I always get a laugh when it happens. 






djg said:


> If I find a used 394, I'd like to know how old of a saw I'm looking at.


The serial number has the date of manufacture encoded in it. 










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## djg

Yep, you all have answered all my questions quite graciously. Thanks for putting up all my questions.


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## TexasTimbers

djg said:


> . . . Thanks for putting up all my questions.


Man that's the whole point of existence of this forum. The more questions the better. We all learn from a question/answer discourse, even those who do the answering will learn. Sometimes, *especially* those who answer learn the most (i.e. we thought we were right but get corrected :yes. 

Don't hesitate to ask questions. I still ask them too when I have one. 






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## slabmaster

*Ethanol Fuel*

Since ethanol has been introduced into the mix many people are haveing heat problems with there engines as it causes a leaner mixture in the carb and that makes more heat. There are many lawsuits going on right now with the oil companies because of ethanol damage to engines.There are things you can do to help this condition to cool down your saws. I run a richer adjustment on the saws carb along with useing Stihl's ultra oil. We did a test with a infered scanner on the jug and found ultra to run 10degrees cooler in a 066 over regular stihl oil when milling. So oil is important for heat reduction.


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