# Fire!



## Lora Chandler (Sep 25, 2007)

Woodworkers Everywhere: Please help us. My husband's woodworking shop burned to the ground on Thursday night, Sept. 20. We do not have insurance. It is a long story... We are desperately in need of machinery and tools of all kinds. A couple of table saws have been donated to us; but we desperately need a wide belt sander and so many other pieces of equipment. We are a relatively small woodworking business in New Mexico consisting of my husband, my son and three other employees. This is all we know and we must hang on somehow. Please, please, if any of you know of tools and equipment that may be available to us, let me know by email as soon as possible. You can view our website, www.pioneerwoodworkers.com to see that we are capable and industrious people. Thank you very much. God bless you all. Lora Chandler


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Oh dear, I am so sorry to hear of your plight. Someone else here recently had their home burnt to the ground. Not sure what is worst. At least your home can be rebuilt although heart breaking. Your business is another matter. I hope you pull through OK. 

Illustrates just how important to have proper fire fighting extinguishers to hand and also insurance.
johnep


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

Lora - please let me know where you are. We are in Albq/Rio Rancho and may be able to help. please contact me directly at [email protected].

I am heartbroken for you.

Nancy (87 days)


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## edp (May 25, 2007)

*OK, so I'll be the crusty ole curmudgeon.*

Is it at all possible that (this being the first post of a NEWLY registered member) this is just another form of the shell game? In direct language, a scam. If this is for real, I am very sorry for your misfortune. I'm just sayin.......................

Ed


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

No Ed, it's not a scam. This lady and her husband are (former) customers of David's employer (long story as to why not, but it's not important). David knows them, knows their work, and has talked to Joe twice today. Their shop was hit by lightening last Thursday night and just about everything went up in flames. This is a fellow woodworker asking for help---and he's getting it from this quarter. We happen to have a 6x89 edge sander that we don't need any more--and the guys son is coming by tonight to pick it up. Joe has already placed an order with WWS for some replacement parts/tools, and with his credit line at WWS, I seriously doubt that he's needing to scam anyone.

I'm sorry that you seem to see the negative of things, rather than the positive.

Nancy (87 days)


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## edp (May 25, 2007)

*I stand corrected and extend my apologies.*

Have just seen too much of this kind of thing to not remain on guard.
Best wishes.

Ed


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

edp said:


> Is it at all possible that (this being the first post of a NEWLY registered member) this is just another form of the shell game? In direct language, a scam. If this is for real, I am very sorry for your misfortune. I'm just sayin.......................
> 
> Ed


http://www.pntonline.com/news/portales_11587___article.html/family_blaze.html

Ed here is the link to the newspaper article.

Dave


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Nancy Laird said:


> This is a fellow woodworker asking for help---and he's getting it from this quarter.



It's the coming together to help another human being. Many years ago my shop was smack in the walking distance of many shops. Some of us became friendly. You would think that there would be heated jealously and competition. A few of them unfortunately were that way. One of the group had a bad accident in his shop, and physically could not work. He had a wife and two young kids. A few of us got together and offered to finish up for free whatever work he had going. Acts of kindness are never forgotten.


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Nancy. Since you know these folks, what can we do to help?
Don't really have any spare tools but might be able to help in other ways.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Lora, I am sorry to hear for your loss. Maybe you could post a list of things you need and if someone sees something they can spare then they can send it if they want.

Insurance ought to be high on your priority list now eh? I learned the hard way too. I had over $10,000 in power tools stolen and had no insurance to cover it either. A comparatively small loss I know. You will recover from this and it will be even better than before I bet.

In edp's defense, it was entirely appropriate to have raised the possibility of this having been a scam. These types of things are prolific on and off the internet, and he did not have the advantage of knowing them. I applaud his willingness to raise the question. He did not accuse he simply posed a legitimate question. 

Now Lora post that list please and include small items you need as well as big. I cannot promise i have anything to donate but if I do I will be happy to help.


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## Corndog (Apr 26, 2007)

Alas, I cannot spare anything but my deepest heartfelt sympathies.
I wish you the quickest of recoveries.

Cheers...Geoff.:thumbsup:


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

woodman42 said:


> Nancy. Since you no these folks, what can we do to help?
> Don't really have any spare tools but might be able to help in other ways.


Hubby and I are in process of opening an account for them at the bank, and I will post particulars as soon as I have them.

Thanks, everyone for your concern.

Nancy (86 days)


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

This is the complete text of an e-mail I got from Lora Chandler this morning. I think this explains everything.

"Below is a post I placed on Woodweb yesterday after getting some emails about why we didn't have insurance and also some negative comments about whether we should even try to rebuild since we probably don't know how to run a business anyway. I know I don't have to answer things like that, but I thought your friends on the forums you have contacted might have similar questions. If you would like to post this message from me on the forums you are a member of, please do. It's up to you. Here it is:

*Our fire was caused by lightning. We had two direct hits between our office area and the paint booth. We don't know exactly how it began. We only know the hits must have exploded something very close to flammable material because the fire traveled very very fast. The fire departments in our entire county responded within 5 minutes, but all they could do was control the burn. I know you are all wondering about why we didn't have insurance and how stupid we must be to let that happen. But, I can only tell you that for twenty years, we had insurance and never had a claim. Last February, Joe had to have surgery and before he left the hospital ten days later, he had four surgeries due to complications from the first one. It has been a long and very difficult recovery. He is doing better, but this situation came on the heels of one of our major customers telling us they were moving their furniture interests and purchasing to China and would no longer be buying furniture from us. This was a blow to our sales that we are still in the process of trying to overcome. Our expenses were still high while our income was suddenly/immediately significantly lower. Our ability to keep our cash flow stable during this past year has been nonexistent. We had to lay off some employees and reduce our spending to the bare bones and that included insurance for which the premiums were too high to pay and we couldn't borrow the money. We prayed we wouldn't have a fire and we have been so careful to observe safety measures in order to prevent the possibility of a fire; but our prayers were not answered and a fire occurred through no mistakes or fault of our own. There is so much more to this story, but I don't have the energy to tell it all. We are living with chaos and it will be that way until cleanup is finished. We are trying to go forward, trying to find hope and each person who encourages us with a kind word, a prayer, or five dollars is an angel in my opinion. Thank you to all who have posted concern. We are deeply grateful. Joe and Lora Chandler; Chad and Shannon Chandler; and all employees of Pioneer Woodworkers, Inc. Portales, NM"*

*Nancy (85 days)*


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Well that says it all. At least here in the UK, unless you go private, all healthcare is free. An operation will cost you no more than loss of your time. However, at moment the National Health Service is under such pressure that cracks are appearing and we have a huge problem with post operative infections.

Immigration is causing problems in housing, health and education.
johnep


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

With all due respect that does not say it all. Taxpayers in socialist countries pay gobs in health care costs in the form of taxes up front, whether you ever need it or not. 

Our sustem is not perfect but I will keep it over big brothu taking any more of my money in taxes than he already does. We already voted for the liberty to choose our own health care system so to speak, roughly 230 years ago. :shifty: We told ol George where to go now we got to fight the domestic enemies to keep from losing what little freedoms we have left. 

i don't wanna drag this too far off though. My point is Lora and her family will be taken care of you wait an see. Her friends, and family, and church, and strangers on woodworing forums will help them recover as they help themsleves. We don't need, or want, big government to tell us we can't survive without it. Bad government! Bad government! You go to your room and count your capital ships and leave us sovereign citizens alone!

Well, once upon a time anyway. :glare:


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

Hi, all,

We have now set up a donation account for Joe and Lora, and here's the information:

First Community Bank - Portales, NM
Joe or Lora Chandler Donation Account
Account #0003246051
Bank Routing #107001452

Any help you can give these folks will be appreciated.

Thank you all.

Nancy (85 days)


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Come on folks, these people are in need.
We need to all help out where we can.
I pray that all who are able will.:thumbsup:


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Sorry Texas, did not wish to cause any offence, just that In UK healthcare costs will not devastate you. Agreed that US insurance based system is far superior for average person. Those without insurance or too old are ones who may suffer.

Trouble with our systems are that too many are taking and not enough giving, particularly as population ages.

regards and I just know all will turn out OK for the fire victims, thanks to good friends like you.
johnep


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

No offense was taken john. I get on my soapbox with big government in general. please pardon my rant. 

Bottom line is we peons all gotta stick together and help each other out when the chips are down. You and me are in the same boat when it gets right down to it, just in a different ocean.


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

I'm bumping this again for the sake of those who might not have seen it first time around. Joe and Lora are slowing getting things cleaned up and have found another building to use temporarily until they can rebuild their shop. David and I are going to Portales this weekend to help with what we can, take some stuff Joe ordered from the store, and provide some moral support. 

Thank you all for your help.

Nancy (80 days)


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks Nancy for the update.
Please continue to do so.


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

I'll update when we get home Sunday night or Monday.

Nancy (77 days)


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## Tippy (Oct 5, 2007)

Nancy Laird;10608"[FONT=Century Gothic said:


> Below is a post I placed on Woodweb yesterday after getting some emails about why we didn't have insurance and also some negative comments about whether we should even try to rebuild since we probably don't know how to run a business anyway. I[/font]


I used to be a frequent contributor to Woodweb, but this is the very reason I have almost stopped. I still check in because a few of the guys on there are fantastic at giving advice. The site, for those that don't know, is geared more towards shop owners. If you want advice on how to operate a woodworking business, it is great. But I get a lot of emails from people who think they know more then me in response posts that they don't agree with. Such as the emails that Lora got from there, they can be quite rude. I don't know what it is with that particular site. Like I said, most of the regulars are great, but the lurkers can be complete jerks.

I know this is off topic and I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I feel for Lora. Not only because of her loss (I saw her post on Woodweb a while back) but because of the way a few members there decided to treat her. I'll get of my soapbox now.


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Tippy said:


> I used to be a frequent contributor to Woodweb, but this is the very reason I have almost stopped. I still check in because a few of the guys on there are fantastic at giving advice. The site, for those that don't know, is geared more towards shop owners. If you want advice on how to operate a woodworking business, it is great. But I get a lot of emails from people who think they know more then me in response posts that they don't agree with. Such as the emails that Lora got from there, they can be quite rude. I don't know what it is with that particular site. Like I said, most of the regulars are great, but the lurkers can be complete jerks.
> 
> I know this is off topic and I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I feel for Lora. Not only because of her loss (I saw her post on Woodweb a while back) but because of the way a few members there decided to treat her. I'll get of my soapbox now.


I agree Tippy, sites like those with people who do nothing but cut other folks down will eventually fade into the dirt. 
I think that people who rag on other folks about there tragedies and faults do so to make themselves feel better.
I have no use for them on forums or in person.:no:


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

As promised, here is a brief update on Joe and Lora's situation. 
David and I went to Portales, NM, to see Joe and Lora this weekend. Joe had ordered some things from Woodworker's and we took them down in our trailer (saved shipping costs), and helped get them into the "new" building. I say "new", but the building is an old corrugated-steel, steel-frame barn with no running water, no bathrooms, lousy lighting, no heat or cooling, no insulation, and no telephone. They had to pay the electric company to run power to the building. They have received several decent machines, including a couple of PowerMatic cabinet saws, but ended up buying a new DP and a new bandsaw. They are going from a 100x100' shop to a 40x60' shop, and they are going to try to get up and running by the end of this week, as they have a big kitchen job waiting for them and they need that income. 

Fortunately, the load of furniture that was in the trailer in the shop when the fire started got pulled out with a tractor (damaging the trailer in the process), and got delivered and paid for, so they aren't destitute, but they have a long way to go to get back to where they were a year ago.

Please keep Joe and Lora in your thoughts and prayers.

Nancy (74 days)
__________________


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks for the update Nancy.


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## Hawki39 (Oct 8, 2007)

As a vol. firefighter I know first hand the pain and devistation a fire brings.
I don't have much but I could send them some hand power tool(s) that I really don't use. The problem is that the power tools that I am able to give are of medium or poor quality. I have since learned that cheap is not bargin. 
I have a cheapo angle grinder and a 1/4" B&D router I could send them if they need the stuff.
Due to my recient saw accident I am not working and unable to send $$ at this time.

Butch


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I have never experienced or even witnissed that going on at Woodweb. I am sure it has happened though because it happens on any forum. How the moderators/admin handle it is what matters.

I love the site and read from it extensively even though I don't post on a regular basis.

I am glad to hear Joe and Lora are making progress. I would still like to see a list of what they need if such a list exists. I may have something.


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## Steve G. (Oct 4, 2007)

I will be praying for them......even though I don't have any money or tools to spare.


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Prayer can make a difference Steve. Thanks


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## Lora Chandler (Sep 25, 2007)

*Fire*

For those of you who have not yet read the story of the lightning that burned our woodworking shop to the ground, here is the link to the newspaper article: 
http://www.pntonline.com/news/portales_11587___article.html/family_blaze.html 
You will probably have to copy and paste it. We now have a page on our website that tells the story of our fire complete with before and after pictures. 
Here is the link: www.pioneerwoodworkers.com When you go to our website, click on the tab in the heading that is the word FIRE in red letters. We are very thankful for each one who has taken time to show concern and help with a kind word, a prayer, or a gift of tools or money. You are the reason we are still here. Progress is slow, but every day brings a small success. We desperately need your help. Please take a moment to check out our website. Thank you to everyone who has written a post to encourage us. We will not forget. You have blessed us and helped us carry a very heavy and scary burden. God bless each of you!


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks for the update Lora. Keep them coming whenever you can.:thumbsup:


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

Randy, I have to tell you that I came very near to crying when I saw Joe's shop when we were down there. I have pictures that make me nauseous every time I look at them. And I can tell you that we have done some hard looking at our own insurance coverage too!!!!

Nancy (61 days)


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

I have mine covered with my homeowners policy.
Covers structure and contents.


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

Randy, I wish we could do that, but as soon as our carrier (Liberty Mutual) found out we were running a business out of our shops, they stepped back, threw up their hands, yelled "commercial", and said that as far as they are concerned, we have NO COVERAGE through them for the two shop buildings. So I'm on a frantic search for commercial insurance on the two buildings, and have been quoted nearly $4K a year, but something in the premium breakdown doesn't compute - $856 a year for $5,000 of coverage of property in the building???? I'm fighting with the broker now to get that coverage in place. 

Nancy (60 days)


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## Tweegs (Sep 8, 2007)

Nancy,
I'm by no means trying to contradict you here. I find your story regarding Liberty mutual rather eye opening, enlightening, as it were.

I've been with them a long time now. Even with replacement cost on the policy and riders on my guns and tools, they were the cheapest in town. I've filed a couple of claims with them over the years and never had a problem. They were always prompt to take care of everything.

The thing that concerns me is the "commercial" aspect of your story.
When, if, my wife and I move, the new shop will be in an outbuilding.
Since I do intend to sell the occasional piece, I wonder if they would give me the same treatment.

At the very least, it's worth a phone call to find out if they will be allowed to continue insuring me.

Thanks for sharing that with all of us here. If you hadn't, I might have gone on assuming I was covered, only to find out the hard way that I wasn't. Before your mention of this, I most certainly would have chosen them to insure the new place.


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

Tweegs, hubby and I have had our auto insurance with LM since 1983, several claims but nary a problem, even when #2 daughter totalled her car. When we moved to NM, we were able to add the house to our coverage with LM, getting multi-policy discounts, another discount as a corporate partner for my legal group membership, discounts for alarm system, deadbolts, etc. We've been extremely pleased with our LM coverage---until now.

When I called LM, it was initially to bump up the face value of the coverage on the house, which would also bump up the coverage on the outbuildings, which are covered at 10% of house value (and still isn't enough). I also wanted a rider on the policy for the $50K of woodworking tools in the woodshop and the other $50K of laser machines and peripherals in the laser shop. As soon as the agent heard about the value of the machinery, her first word was "commercial" and I had to admit that we were running a small mom-and-pop cottage industry out of those two buildings. She said that LM doesn't write "commercial" coverage, and referred me to Colorado Casualty, which is apparently a division of LM (since they use the same "Miss Liberty" logo). The "agent" said that she didn't do quotes, so she referred me to a broker who promptly quoted me about $3700 through Colorado Casualty, but "recommends" another policy through Zurich for $3900-plus. But there are some questions about _that_ quote that I'm still awaiting answers for.

In the meantime, I'm praying for no fire or other casualty on our two uninsured buildings!!!

Nancy (59 days)


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## Steve Clardy (Oct 20, 2007)

Good to see that Lori and Joe are getting set back up.


Steve


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Nancy, any new news on Joe and Loras situation?


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

I haven't heard from Joe and Lora for a couple of weeks, but I do know that Joe was scheduled for knee-replacement surgery on Monday the 5th, so I'm sure that they are now dealing with that issue as well as the shop. I sent Lora an e-mail last night--as coincidence would have it--and I'm going to try to call later today or tonight if I don't hear back from her today. I've been concerned about them---but I've also been dealing with some health concerns of my own recently, so they haven't been in the forefront. I'll find out and report back as soon as I know something.

Nancy (39 days)


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## Nancy Laird (May 7, 2007)

Here is an edited version of the e-mail I got from Lora a few minutes ago:

_Joe is still in the hospital. His surgery was on Thursday, not Monday. I guess I told a lot of people that it was the 5th instead of the 8th, but I was confused about a lot of things for awhile with nothing on my mind but how are we going to survive and go forward. The surgery went well and he is already walking pretty well with a walker, but he has a low grade fever and they won't let him go home. It's worrisome and this morning he just seems sort of depressed and won't talk much. That is not the normal Joe, so I'm concerned. He just needs a break from life. It has come down on him too hard. I wish I could relieve his pain, lift his heartache about the fire and see him smile again. It will be good to get home._

_ 
_I also wish there was something I could do--but I can't think of anything else that David and I can do except just offer moral support.

Nancy (39 days)


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks Nancy.


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