# My First Table Saw (Craftsman 113.298762)



## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

I have been fiddling around with some wood projects for a while, usually rough stuff. Saw horses, cedar fence and gate, utility trailer floor, etc… But recently I needed some cabinet faces for my outdoor kitchen and I did them with a circular saw, a router and a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig. I decided I needed/wanted a table saw. Well, after much reading, I decided to look for a Craftsman 113***x, and if I found a decent one, I could rebuild it and have a decent saw for my personal needs. Well, a decent one popped up, and I asked several questions about it and decided to purchase it for $125 bucks. Motor runs super smooth, blade gets perpendicular and fence locks down parallel with the miter slot. Here are some pics of my first table saw. Looking forward to tuning and setting it up and making some saw dust.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I would recommend replacing the table extensions. The holes in them will drive you nuts and create a danger with material hanging up there. Wood isn't always completely flat, it's something machinists designing equipment can't seem to understand. You could make a table extension, even a longer one that would go to the end of the fence rail out of wood and cover it with formica and would work much better.


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## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> I would recommend replacing the table extensions. The holes in them will drive you nuts and create a danger with material hanging up there. Wood isn't always completely flat, it's something machinists designing equipment can't seem to understand. You could make a table extension, even a longer one that would go to the end of the fence rail out of wood and cover it with formica and would work much better.


Yes, I will certainly look at different ideas to remedy that issue. Thanks.


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## new2woodwrk (Mar 16, 2015)

Grats on your purchase

Looks like a nice saw that will last you awhile


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> I would recommend replacing the table extensions. The holes in them will drive you nuts and create a danger with material hanging up there. Wood isn't always completely flat, it's something machinists designing equipment can't seem to understand. You could make a table extension, even a longer one that would go to the end of the fence rail out of wood and cover it with formica and would work much better.


They're an annoyance in that you can't lay a pencil down on them, but the support webbing is below the top surface and doesn't catch on anything. In my opinion they offer more support than the stamped steel wings that it came with.

Some day I'm going to make a tray for mine so I can put a pencil and square down without them falling on the floor.


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

Looks like you got a pretty good deal

My first table saw was a Wallace, I had just gotten to an auction,didn't even have a number, and I heard the auctioneer say I can't believe I can't get a $50 bid on a 10 inch table saw, so i bid on it and "won" the bid. After I got my number and recorded it with the auction clerk I went over to look at my prize

It had a three phase motor which was no problem, but a Wallace was a gear drive, and the whole drive assembly was missing, but with a little help from a machinist buddy got me running with a v belt,used it about 15 years until I got my Unisaw. Damn that Wallace was heavy, I ended up giving it to a buddy that needed a table saw


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## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

Catpower said:


> Looks like you got a pretty good deal
> 
> My first table saw was a Wallace, I had just gotten to an auction,didn't even have a number, and I heard the auctioneer say I can't believe I can't get a $50 bid on a 10 inch table saw, so i bid on it and "won" the bid. After I got my number and recorded it with the auction clerk I went over to look at my prize
> 
> It had a three phase motor which was no problem, but a Wallace was a gear drive, and the whole drive assembly was missing, but with a little help from a machinist buddy got me running with a v belt,used it about 15 years until I got my Unisaw. Damn that Wallace was heavy, I ended up giving it to a buddy that needed a table saw


That's pretty cool.... I was really glad this one had bad pics on a CL post and a short description that said "motor out of balance, needs work" I am sure I was the only one that called about it. He wanted $175, I offered $100 and he said $125 and it was mine. Not that it was the best, but I knew the aftermarket Delta fence would be better than almost any stock fence from ANY saw I bought. So that was the driver. The "out of balance motor" ended up not having anything to do with the motor, he said the pulley was bent on the arbor. I figured I'd just order machined pulleys and link belt and be golden. But after further inspection, it ended up being they took out the set screw from the arbor pulley and it was just flopping around on the arbor, and the motor pulley was missing the 3/16 square key. I got the motor pulley off last night, and it is perfectly straight. I'll get the arbor pulley off tonight, and if it's straight I'll just throw a link belt on it, clean it up and let it rip.... (No pun intended) LOL.....


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

congrats on the new to you saw. i'd move that power switch onto the underside of the front fence rail as soon as I could. its not terribly accessible where it is.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

toolguy1000 said:


> congrats on the new to you saw. i'd move that power switch onto the underside of the front fence rail as soon as I could. its not terribly accessible where it is.


I'll second moving the switch, you should get lots of use out of that saw, as far as the grid on the wings, if a board is warped enough to catch on them it is not safe to be cutting it in the first place without a carrier under it.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

I believe you did well finding that one. A good machine with a good fence and 1-1/2 HP motor at a good price. 

Well done.

Think safety when using your table saw. Consider a well waxed table, an out-feed table, some push sticks and push blocks.

Enjoy your new table saw.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Agreed that the fence alone was worth what you paid for the entire saw, nevermind the good blade, the big motor, the cast iron wings, the cast iron table, and that cool little dust catcher bag that I'm a little envious of.

But can we get back to those extension wings for a minute here?

On the one hand, Steve suggests, and new2woodworking agrees, that the holes in the gridded cast iron extension wings can be a safety hazard for wood working.

On the other hand, Maylar suggests, and RankC agrees, that the holes aren't a problem because wood that is so warped that it would catch on the holes shouldn't be processed on a table saw in the first place. I will embellish on their statements by suggesting that such boards should at first either be run through a planer, or ripped with a bandsaw.

However, in my current build of FrankCanSaw, I have a choice between...

1. * Stamped steel wings* that are solid surfaced with a raised perimeter rib that is supposed to line up level to the cast iron table, but no intermediate ribs that meet the same level.

2. * Cast aluminum wings* that are solid surfaced with a raised perimeter rib and two intermediate ribs that are intended to be level with the cast iron table

3. * Cast iron wings* that are hollow surfaced, with machined perimeter and intermediate ribs that are intended to line up level with the cast iron table

These are the three choices available in Sears Craftsman branded saws. Of these three, what are the pros and cons of each? On balance, which is the best choice, and why?


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

Settin' up your saw is a personal choice. It isn't rocket science but a few decisions have to be made based on stuff you have and space available. Clearly, the best set-up would be solid cast extension without grid but you don't have those so you have your choices above

A few of the questions are:

How long is your rail? 

Do you have unlimited space?

How much do you want to the right side of the blade?

Will you support the extension or do you want them to stand alone?

Is this saw going to be a true stationary saw or will it move occasionally or often?

I expect many that have limited space use their saw as a work bench occasionally..,well, I do. I cover it with cardboard. Consider that as well.

A 24/24 can be set-up as a 12/36 or an 18/30. That is a decision to make.

I like the cast iron extensions next to the saw and the lighter ones further away for weight distribution.

A am not a fan of the stamped steel extension tables for one reason, because the proper set-up needs a stiffening kit. I believe the cast ones are a better set-up. Others may disagree. that is OK with me.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Extension wings ....*

I had stamped steel ones, I scrapped them.

I had the grided cast iron ones and used them for about 10 years. I didn't like the stuff falling through the grids, and the occasional splinter hanging up the forward feed progress. I ended up storing them on the shelf, after I replaced them with "spare" tables from other saws on my Sawzilla. If you have 2 spare tables from your other 6 saws, 27" deep they will bolt up to any other table, 12" direct drive or otherwise. They also offer additional miter slots for jigs and I use all of mine every so often. Bolt 'em up and see how you like it..... :surprise2:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/memb...emote-shop-vac-overarm-operated-remote-fence/


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Bill, you are right. I do have two additional (solid, slotted) cast iron tables that I could dismantle from the other saws. However, I haven't yet decided whether or not I want to also build two other saws to sell locally, to recoup most of my costs back, and unfortunately, the cast iron tables are all model specific and unique underneath, in that they have different mounting bosses to support the trunion designs which vary from saw to saw.

I have a sampling of almost all flavors of 70's-80's era saws... 

- 10" direct drive, aluminum trunion, aluminum table, two stamped steel wings, can't recall if wings are reinforced

- 10" flex drive, aluminum trunion, cast iron table, two grated cast iron wings

- 10" belt drive, cast iron trunion, cast iron table, one grated cast iron wing (of better quality than the cast iron wings on the flex drive... different casting, same grate pattern)
plus one solid cast aluminum wing, that has the appearance of cast iron in photos, but is definitely cast aluminum in real life

- 12" direct drive, cast iron trunion, cast iron table, two stamped steel wings with 3/16" thick angle reinforcements in all four corners of each wing, with the longer legged angles attached to the table.


I was quite surprised to notice the huge difference in casting quality between near identical patterned diagonally grated cast iron wings. One can immediately feel the difference in heft, as well as see the difference in the thickness and finish of the casting. I'm not sure if it is due to a decade difference in design evolution to thrift out production cost, or if it is an intentional lightening of the net weight of the saw. But not all diagonally patterned 12" x 27" cast iron extension wings are the same, and the difference is impossible to determine by photos alone.

The second item of note is that the stamped steel wings are 10" x 27", not 12" x 27" like the grated cast iron wings. Also, the solid cast aluminum wing is also only 10" x 27", rather than 12".

The third item of not is that the cast iron wings, of either quality, do not have any holes whatsoever on the narrow sides. This might materially effect the opportunities for intermediate support of the 70" long solid fence rail from the Exact-I-Fence. On the other hand, using the supplied rail mounting angles at the outboard ends of each extension on either side, plus the four holes in the table itself to support the middle, might be sufficient.

Bottom line, without possessing sufficient practical experience using table saws, I think that I would start off configuring the saw with the best recommendations from those who have more experience, rather than my own guess as to what my needs are.


Direct answers to subroc's questions:
-Fence rail = 70"
-Moving saw = once or twice a year
-Extensions will stand alone, supported only by the same legs that support the saw itself
-Space is ALWAYS limited, no matter how much I gain and then subsequently seem to lose.
-The 12/24, 24/24, 12/36, 18/30, 24/30 etc question is already dictated for me by the solid fence rail with two measuring tapes already stuck on it: *24/30*
-With a one piece rail as long and as large as the one I have, I don't plan on buying new tapes to reconfigure the fence. It will stay as designed.
-This will mean one wing left, two wings right.
-Pursuant to Bill's idea, an alternative might be one wing left, additional table right.


The foregoing is not intended to derail the original gloat of the OP's score. It rather is to hone in on one of the common concerns that came up as a result of the OP's score, that being the make up of the extension wings. Until now, I would have that that the OP hit the jackpot as far as Sears table saws go, with the grated extension wings being the most desirable. However, the concerns brought up by Steve, and now Bill, appear valid enough to me to be worthy of consideration, and I'm certain that the OP would find value in learning more opinions about the merits of changing or keeping the grated cast iron tables that came with his saw.


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## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

Please keep the advice coming, no problem at all..... Thanks to the suggestions and reading here I have purchased a few things for the saw. I haven't gotten the chance to install anything, but I got it all in the mail already.

Woodstock 110V Paddle Switch
Micro Jig Splitter Steel Pro kit
Micro Jig Grr-Ripper® 100 X 2 kit with video
Peachtree Machined Pulleys and Link Belt

Even though I spent a little more money, in the end, I'll have a decent table saw that will last for a long time.

As far as the wings. I knew that the cast iron grates were the best option of the 3 that were offered with this saw, but I don't think it will matter, because I have my heart set on building a table saw/router/miter saw/band saw/sanding station cabinet. Kind of a compilation of these pics, with a few added options that suit my space and use.


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## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

So I had an opportunity to mess with the saw again today, and I was pretty intrigued by all the comments criticizing the cast iron webbed wings, and saying how wood can catch on them, and how not all wood is straight, so there was a possibility of edges or corners of wood potentially getting caught on them. When I looked closer at the wings, I was wondering how it would be possible for anything to get caught on the webs because the webbed portion of the wings are, actually, 1/4" below the surface of the table. Sure there are a couple of the runners that are the exact height of the table itself, but the webbed portion is 1/4" under that. Yall are correct, I would never fathom running something through the saw that had a 1/4" defect in it. Hope that makes sense, I'm attaching a couple of pics so you can see what I'm talking about.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Nice photos. 


Did you see the inserts that another WWT member installed in that 1/4" relief you measured, that converted the formerly gridded extension into a solid surface to pile shop junk on until one needs the table saw again? 


Just kidding about the shop junk part, but am not kidding about the inserts. I forget his user name or the thread he posted in but it will come to me. I want to say "subroc" or something similar. Someone here will know. Anyway, the thin wooden inserts inset in relief, surrounded by still raised cast iron ground surface ribs, makes for a very attractive appearance to the saw, at least as executed by the WWT member I am speaking of.


How's your new saw coming along? Have you moved that power switch yet? Got your motor mounted and aligned yet? What are you doing about the wheel dolly? Do those casters lock? Do all four casters swivel 360 degrees? Come on now... if you're going to start a My First Table Saw set up thread, let's start seeing whatcha got goin on over there. I plan on learning from you.


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## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

Mad said:


> Nice photos.
> 
> 
> Did you see the inserts that another WWT member installed in that 1/4" relief you measured, that converted the formerly gridded extension into a solid surface to pile shop junk on until one needs the table saw again?
> ...


Yea Mad, I plan on starting a separate thread, I'll start it tomorrow once I get some more pics. I have answers to all of those questions, lol albeit maybe not the right answers, but I can let you know what my intentions are..... looking forward to following your new build, as well. Now to find who had the wooden inserts, I like that idea.......


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## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

Mad said:


> Nice photos.
> 
> 
> Did you see the inserts that another WWT member installed in that 1/4" relief you measured, that converted the formerly gridded extension into a solid surface to pile shop junk on until one needs the table saw again? Oh My! Fancy, I could take that idea to the next level..... hmmm, what to do, what to do???
> ...


I may end up doing something like that with my gridded wings......


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Boom. Found it.


And that is a good reason to use the "Like" feature of this forum. Hit the Like button when you like a post. Then, days, weeks, months later... when the memory fails you, go to your profile, and look at the Likes you've Given. Click on the number, and behold, all the posts you've liked. And there it was... Subroc's contractor table saw, very much like yours, with two grated cast iron wings (that he filled with wood), plus, his is further pimped with a solid cast iron router extension. That'll get your gears going...


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

FWIW, I've never found the grated wings to be a problem. They are great for clamping things like feather boards to. plus, they don't encourage clutter on the TS top.


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## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

To help with the blade alignment consider getting PALS from InLine Industries...cost around $20. Easy to install and use. I have a similar Sears saw and at the recommendation of the InLine Industries owner I added some grease fittings that make blade raising/lowering/tilting very easy. Check out the InLine Industries web site.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

I've had that same saw (a couple of different times but with the bad fences) and have always preferred it over the stamped steel wings versions. It is an excellent saw to learn with and graduate from as the hobby portion of woodworking leaves you and the addiction begins. :smile3: By all means, relocate that switch to the front, or, better yet, buy a paddle switch for it. 

Some good accessories of course, are, a push stick and blocks, a better miter gauge, throat inserts for zero clearance and dado, and, naturally, a good quality blade.

Remember, show off your first project with that saw!


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

toolguy1000 said:


> I've never found the grated wings to be a problem.


 
I have. 

Just trying to get them lined up with the main cast table. So painstaking. 

Rubber mallet so as to not crack or chip the cast iron? Fine, but it doesn't line them up exact.

Block of wood so as to enforce a wider push over a broader purchase area on the two differential height surfaces to bring them in line? Just dents the top of the wood.

Loosen the nuts and bolts some more? Again? Then the grate hangs off at an angle. Tighten them back up more. Again.

The last thing I did, out of desperation, was take another cast iron grate, and lay it upside down on top of the one I am trying to align with the table, and then while grabbing and supporting the outboard edges of both grates together with one hand, I grasped the inboard edge of the top grate only, lifted it up at an angle, and allowed gravity to snap it back down on top of it's twin at the grate to table junction. That seemed to work better.

But I did find this whole horizontal alignment deal with the cast iron grates to be a problem. Any tips for doing this better will be greatly appreciated!


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## adpostel (Nov 30, 2017)

JIMMIEM said:


> To help with the blade alignment consider getting PALS from InLine Industries...cost around $20. Easy to install and use. I have a similar Sears saw and at the recommendation of the InLine Industries owner I added some grease fittings that make blade raising/lowering/tilting very easy. Check out the InLine Industries web site.


I read about the PALS system from InLine. That's who I bought the pulleys from. I would like to hear more about the grease fittings addition, that sounds about how I like my tools to work, like finely oiled machines..... Thank you for your input.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

adpostel said:


> I read about the PALS system from InLine. That's who I bought the pulleys from. I would like to hear more about the grease fittings addition, that sounds about how I like my tools to work, like finely oiled machines..... Thank you for your input.



Oil and grease are magnets for chips and dust.


Undersides of table saws are mini tornado chambers swirling chips and dust.


Chips and dust plus oil and grease equals pitch and grime.


Pitch and grime combined with the heat of friction and the toll of time, some how becomes an epoxy like filling that clogs the helix and teeth of the jack screws and gears that adjust the arbor angle and height.


I'm thinking a dry lubricant would be better?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you are correct, except .....*

Shaft and arbor bearings are sealed with grease inside. Grease on exposed shafts with threads is not advised. Several of my saws have exposed threaded shafts and they will collect dried sawdust on the bevel gears. Evey so often I have to pick out the gunk in between the teeth. It's a job I hate because I have to crawl underneath the saw after removing the dust plate and pick out the dust.


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

Mad said:


> I have.
> 
> Just trying to get them lined up with the main cast table. So painstaking.
> 
> ...


It's even worse if the side of the table isn't right angle to the top. One of my extensions required shims to offset the mounting angle a bit, else it wasn't flat when tightened up. Fortunately we don't have to do this very often.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Use "C" clamps*

Put your center bolts in first and make the center surfaces flush then tighten them. Use "C" clamps to level out the ends, then tighten the end bolts. Do not use a mallet or other sharp blow forces to attempt to level out the surfaces. I had a bunch of surfaces to level when I assembled 3 saws and 2 tables on my Sawzilla. :smile3:


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Mad said:


> I have.
> 
> ........ Any tips for doing this better will be greatly appreciated!


Check out Wood magazine. Some years back, they did a feature with the editor who sets up their machines. He clamped one end of two 2X4s on edge to the wings, then clamped the other end of the 2X4s to the saws table top. i've tried it and it works quite well. no hassles holding things in place. this technique will not address warped or bent extension wings.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

> Do you have unlimited space?


Does anyone have unlimited space? I live in South Carolina and Georgia is always butting up against the state on one side and the Atlantic ocean on the other..and I can't rip a 100 mile board without running into North Carolina.. 

Actually I have those stamped steel wings..They bugged me like forever, but one day it occurred to me that about 80% of everything I ever cut on the saw doesn't even touch the wings..Outfeed seems to be the biggest problem with most saws along with the ever popular clutter.. I use my bench for outfeed which works just fine EXCEPT FOR the little known fact that almost all the work I do on the bench occurs on the end closest to the saw. You would think I'd have learned to work on the other end by now and you would be wrong.. My brain isn't adjusted properly I guess. 
I built another bench/junk collector and it to has collected more crap than I even thought possible. 
I need a maid to follow around behind me everywhere..
Back to those stamped steel wings.. They have an angle iron frame that stays pretty much flush with the saw top. It's the area inside the frames that sags a bit, but it's not that big of a deal. I've thought many times of swapping them out for the cast iron webbed type, but I know how my brain operates and about 90% of everything that lands on the floor would probably originate from those webbed wings then of course bounce around till they find a nice little hiding place never to be seen again ..Those stamped steel wings are available on eBay for a whole lot cheaper than the cast iron wings so it's a half dozen of one or six of the other..


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

On bolting the center two holes of the wings first... this was my first instinct, and where I started. Come to find out, the problem was with the wings. I have three cast iron grated wings. All three are the same length and width. All three are cast in the same pattern, with a combo of diagonal and perpendicular webbing. All three look exactly the same from a distance. All three came from Sears saws that I purchased from original owners (or rather, their adult children who didn't want their dead or dying dad's saw). It isn't like I bought wings off of eBay.


One of the wings, removed from the Contractor saw, is cast really well. The vertical walls of the perimeter ribs are flat and thick. It weighs 2 lbs more. The rib castings are even and contiguous. The other two wings, removed from the Flex Drive saw, have casting flaws throughout the ribs, have a thinner, stepped down wall thickness around the perimeter, with wavy interior walls and protrusions from casting defects, and are 2 lbs lighter than the first rib. I'm going to be looking at refitting these wings back onto a saw I may later sell, but in the meantime, the fence that I have _requires_ that extensions be installed (according to the instructions), so I'm struggling to make these extensions fit. One appears to be slightly high in the center, while the other appears slightly low in the center. 


It is not a trivial task to change extensions with the hardware I am using. It costs about $10.00, and 20 minutes of time, to swap sides of the same extension, or swap in the other one, just to see which fits best. This is because I'm using flange head bolts and matching *prevailing torque* flange nuts. I wanted to increase the bearing surface of the bolt and nut heads, due to using two extensions in series on the right hand side. That effort would have been negated using the Sears star lock washers to resist fastener rotation. Split lock washers do not have the increased bearing area either, and nylock nuts have less surface area than the non locking nuts that Sears used, which are slightly wider flat to flat than a typical 5/16-18 nut. But a flange head bolt and nut not only have the broader bearing of a hardened thick flat washer... they bring to bear this broaden bearing area without adding two more slip surfaces that a separate flat washer introduces, whereby loosening can potentially initiate.


But, the flange bolts cost $1.50 each, and the prevailing torque flange nuts cost $1.00 each. For those who are not mechanics or machinists, the thread hole of a prevailing torque nut is distorted, such that it requires a prevailing torque to run the nut down the bolt. That's how the nut stays put and never loosens. It requires torque to turn it, even before anything is clamped. But they are a use once and throw away type of fastener coupling, for the most effectiveness. I'm not throwing mine away, but I'm not reusing the removed ones in this application, because that is what I bought them for in the first place... to really hold those extensions in place. It takes a lot of time with hand tools to tighten them also, since I don't have any power or pneumatic tool that can fit within the grate opening. So I haven't been having a very good time with these grates.


Naturally, I want them as flat and as even with the adjacent table as possible. I think I ended up pretensioning one of them, by putting a support under the center of the grate that dipped down while the ends were tightened in place. I tightened the center after it was mechanically raised by the support.


The irony is, I don't really need a table this big. Like allpurpose said above, my work won't touch these extensions. I just need the table saw for ripping boards, not cutting sheet material. But I wanted a really good fence, and the one that was available locally that I could afford ended up requiring the big table extensions. Sigh.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*to each his own ...*

Your use of the locking type bolts and nut is your choice of course, but a bit of overkill in my experience. The nut and bolts that secure the table extensions are not subject to any torque or vibration which would require the use of locking fasteners. So just get the extensions and table flush in what ever manner you find available and reasonable.

As to your hypothetical ... I won't ever need the addition width since I won't be working sheet goods, just ripping boards ..... wait and see if that holds true. You can't work sheet goods on a saw that's too narrow, but a wider saw can handle it if the need arises. 

You may find that a sheet of plywood cut to the size of the table top and secured with narrow strips that abutt the edges will be an additional work table as I did for many years working in a small shop.
You aren't always sawing when working in the shop and often spend more time assembling that sawing.

The stamped extensions VS cast grids debate is what it is. You have to work with what you have OR spend some bucks to change it. I had stamped extensions for many years before I made the Sawzilla form several saws and tables. They work OK, look "cheezy" but still get the job done.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

I don't understand the whole bolt and nut issue. These things have been service tested for 50, 60, 70 years or more and the factory fasteners have proven to be more than satisfactory. Clearly, building a better mouse trap is a good idea, but sometimes it just isn't necessary.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

subroc said:


> I don't understand the whole bolt and nut issue. These things have been service tested for 50, 60, 70 years or more and the factory fasteners have proven to be more than satisfactory. Clearly, building a better mouse trap is a good idea, but sometimes it just isn't necessary.


 
It wasn't until 30 years ago that I thought it might be a good idea to save a few Sears tool catalogs for reference material...to learn about accessories that I would not have thought of or known existed. So I only have tool catalogs going back to 1989. Wait... saving catalogs you ask? Keep in mind, this was before the world wide web existed, so it isn't like one could just look online to discover what they didn't know they needed. However, in 1996, the Web started gaining traction, and I stopped saving tool catalogs by 1999.


But looking through my collection of catalogs in that 10 year time period, I did not see one single Sears table saw that had two table extensions ganged together on one side of the saw. At most, there was only one extension on each side. Now that the internet has metastasized into this ubiquitous medium that one can search for almost anything on, I found Vintage Machinery .org and searched through their library of old wood working machine manuals for Craftsman table saws. Likewise, I did not see one single instance of two extensions doubled up on one side.


Therefore, while the argument that the original hardware used on these saws may very well have been service tested for 50, 60, 70 years may in some cases be valid (although every one of the 6 Sears table saws I've now gone through had a hodge podge of original and obviously newer replaced nuts and bolts of a different and inconsistent type), the fact remains that I am not setting up the saw as it was originally sold. So I cannot fairly expect the original hardware to have been tested for how I am using it, because it doesn't appear that Sears taxed it in the way that I am.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

Fair enough.

You can put any fasteners you want on a saw. 

What specific fasteners hold the extension wings to the cast table or an extension wing to an extension wing would be low on my list of concerns. What is of concern to me is the entire assembly. Clearly, hanging wings off the end of a saw isn't a complete set-up. Now wings hanging off the end of a saw with the added support of a fence and rail system makes a complete assembly. Deciding what is good enough, in my view, is the question, not whether a specific head design or if grade 5 or 8 fasteners will do. Further, the saw foot print matters. Will so much be hanging off one side of a saw that it will make it unstable? Depending on the saw base you plan to use, I suppose it could. But my experience with a standard contractor saw base sitting on a rolling base indicates it is just fine. I doubt I could load the right side enough to make it unstable.

The best of luck to you in your saw assembly.

I look forward to images of your completed set-up.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

I understand what you mean about assessing the whole as an assembly.


Also, the other day, I took note of your saw, where you used angle iron as a "truss bridge" ... acting as a continuous beam that spanned the joints between your table and extension wings. I would be very happy with a set up like yours.


My fence is different, and I don't understand enough about what clearances it needs to deviate from how Sears intended for it to be installed. The fence itself is the kind that rides on the rear rail via a nylon wheel, and grasps the edge of the rear rail when the fence clamp is levered down. If I introduced the thickness of an angle iron between either the front or the rear rail and the table + extension ensemble, I am concerned that the added thickness would interfere with the smooth function of the fence. I don't think you have that concern, because your fence is a true floating Biesemeyer type fence, which only relies on the front rail for clamping. If I recall you have a T2. No doubt superior to mine, but I'm thrilled to have what I've got compared to the original stock steel grey Crapman fence that shipped with the saw I'm building.


Rome wasn't built in a day. And neither will this table saw be. My hyper focus on bolting today is because that is the stage I am working on today. Last week, I was focused on what upgraded fence I should get for $120 or less. The previous week I was focused on whether I should build up a 12" direct drive or a 10" belt drive chassis. That sort of thing. So it isn't that I'm not considering the assembly as a whole. It's just that I can only work on one thing at a time, and build it the best I can layer by layer.


The fence rails I have are full length (6 feet long) extruded aluminum channels, with the front piece having a much larger cross section, adding more "truss bridge" rigidity to tie all the extensions together with a solid beam. But being aluminum, I wasn't sure how much cantilevered weight would cause localized deformation inside the aluminum channel from the points of the captured bolt heads digging into the extrusion. The tighter the nut, the deeper the points dig, and the deeper the hole, the more potential for a change in angle to be induced on the beam.


A lot of overthink, but Noah built the ark before the rain, so if I can think more carefully while building this saw, my hope is to be able to avert a rain of frustration later on while using the saw. I hope that makes sense.


My saw is base has 8 wheel drive right now, with a foot print of 31" x 30". It can spin around 360 degrees on it's own axis, and move in all directions at will. This was something that was very important to me for maneuverability. With all 8 swivel wheels up, the leveler feet are about 28" x 29" foot print.


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## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

adpostel said:


> I read about the PALS system from InLine. That's who I bought the pulleys from. I would like to hear more about the grease fittings addition, that sounds about how I like my tools to work, like finely oiled machines..... Thank you for your input.


 The InLine Industries owner sent me a video demonstrating how and where to add the grease fittings. I had offered to send the video to somebody else but I was told that if the company was selling it then I could not give it away. With the company's permission I would provide it to you. The fittings go on the housing. Also, another poster commented that this was not a good idea due to sawdust. I installed the grease fittings over 10 years ago. Last year I had to replace the arbor bearings which involved removing the housing. There was no sawdust inside the housing where the grease fittings were.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

JIMMIEM said:


> I installed the grease fittings over 10 years ago. Last year I had to replace the arbor bearings which involved removing the housing..



Wait... weren't the grease fittings installed to lubricate the bearings so they wouldn't have to be replaced?


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## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Mad said:


> Wait... weren't the grease fittings installed to lubricate the bearings so they wouldn't have to be replaced?


I didn't do a good job of explaining. The grease gets applied to the inside of the Arbor Housing shaft to allow it to pivot smoothly and raise/lower/tilt the blade. This grease has nothing to do with the arbor bearings. A groove is cut inside the housing shaft and a hole is drilled from the outside of the housing into the shaft.....the fittings allow the grease to be injected. I agree that using grease that will be exposed to sawdust is a bad idea. The grease that I am applying is inside the housing shaft......I just mentioned bearings because when I had to replace them I got the chance to inspect the greased housing shaft and found that there was no sawdust in the shaft.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

Thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense now.


One common issue I have with tilt movements in particular, on both my direct and belt drive saws, is that the resistance to tilt increases with the amount of tilt. In particular, the last 10 degrees, between 35 and 45 degrees, proves very arduous to continue to crank.


What I don't understand, especially with the 12" direct drive saw, is that the bevel gear mechanisms make multiple 360 degree revolutions during their journey from 90 degrees (0 degrees) to 45 degrees. I have picked clean every single groove of each gear with dental tools, brushed the gears with a tooth brush around all 360 degrees, lubricated the gears... and as a result got very quick, easy, resistance free movement... up to 35 degrees. By that time the gears have rotated 360 twice, so it isn't like there is a pie slice portion of the bevel gear that I missed. Yet, the tilt movement gets difficult again as I approach near 45 degrees. 


If the gears have rotated 360 twice, that means the shaft the gears are connected to has also rotated multiple times... and the rotation is incredibly easy and free in the beginning. So I'm not sure what or where to drill and tap for a zerk fitting, or if it will even help the situation, given that the shaft and gears are already fully exposed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The issue is probably not the gear or the shaft*

Since you have cleaned all the interfaces, I would look elsewhere for the binding condition. The trunnions may need to be cleaned or just adjusted a bit. If you have the saw upside down, disconnect the bevel adjustment shaft and see how easy it is to swing the saw carriage in the trunnions. If they bind or hang up, that's your issue.


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## Mad (Dec 9, 2017)

The saw isn't upside down. I have to contort, and I do mean _contort_, to reach underneath and look up. I am unable to turn the saw upside down. I probably could have as recently as 20 years ago, but that ship of strength left over from youth sailed over the horizon a long time ago, never to return.


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

FWIW, I rarely if ever tilt the blade on my Sears table saw. There's always sawdust binding the screw and the stops and tightening the lock makes a tiny change in angle that makes precise adjustment very frustrating. I'll find an alternative method with my bandsaw, jointer, or even a hand saw miter box before tilting that damn trunion.

And yeah, turning the saw upside down is a job for 2 young strong backs.


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