# running end grain through my planer



## JoeMemphis (Jan 19, 2013)

Hello All,
I'm trying out a butcher block project using only scrap wood. I'm wondering if I can run the end grain through my planer without chipping? I just replaced my blades on my planer. 

Thanks,
Joe


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

NO. A drum sander or router sled is the preferred method.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

You can, but there is a very good chance things will go BANG!


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

I do end grain boards all the time, haven't tried them with the new Shelix head but suspect the cut will be even better.

Here is an older one:










And a more recent board, the center section is end grain.










And another center section that is end grain.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

This has been a hot topic in the past. You'll find several people will say they've done it with no problems, some even glue a sacrificial board that will preferentially chip out and they saw the sacrificial board off after planing. 

However, there are also plenty of people who share horror stories of the planer knives grabbing the board and destroying the entire planer, and even some serious injuries to the unfortunate woodworker. 

My understanding is that a helical cutter head is the safer way to do it, but a drum sander is the best option.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Sure, you can feed an end grain board through a planer. Once. 

Tried it myself, launched a 13x18 solic maple board about 10 feet across my shop. Would gone further if it didn't ping off a wall


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

I've had a bang(or two), and I believe it has less to do with it being end grain, and more to do with the glue up.

If for any reason the front edge of the glue up lifts up when the feed roller pushes down on it the bang happens. I've had this happen on regular glue ups as well so I'm very cautious about checking it before I plane it, making sure there isn't any "rock" to it. And I also take very(very) light initial passes to make sure I get any high spots leveled out before I start making significant cuts.

As mentioned there is more of a tendency for the end of the glue up to tear out when running it through. I always either plan for this in the length of the glue up, or as mentioned add a sacrificial piece on the end that will be removed.


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## fire65 (Apr 27, 2013)

Seen a video of a guy doing it, no way in hell that I would ever run it through my planer.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

I have done it on a ridgid planer using the techniques shown in this video with success
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs


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## JoeMemphis (Jan 19, 2013)

anyone got a drum sander they can borrow? Lol Well, I don't have a drum sander so I'm thinking I'll remove any excess glue and glue on boards on the front and back and try the planer, taking it small increments at a time. Don't really have another option as I can't afford a drum sander. Thanks for all the advice.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

JoeMemphis said:


> anyone got a drum sander they can borrow? Lol Well, I don't have a drum sander so I'm thinking I'll remove any excess glue and glue on boards on the front and back and try the planer, taking it small increments at a time. Don't really have another option as I can't afford a drum sander. Thanks for all the advice.


There's always another option. Even a cheap block plane would be a better option. Seriously, I cannot stress just how bad of an idea this is. Sure, you could get lucky, I did on my first try too. But, then again, my second try launched a 12x18x1.5 plank of maple, about 2 pounds of wood, nearly 10 feet across my shop. Would've kept going too, if it hadn't ricocheted off my work bench, into a wall, and back into the work bench. All this of course, after almost breaking 2 fingers and my wrist. 

Of course, it also ruined the board, as well as severly dulling the knives in my planer. Seriously, just don't do it!


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

epicfail48 said:


> There's always another option. Even a cheap block plane would be a better option. Seriously, I cannot stress just how bad of an idea this is. Sure, you could get lucky, I did on my first try too. But, then again, my second try launched a 12x18x1.5 plank of maple, about 2 pounds of wood, nearly 10 feet across my shop. Would've kept going too, if it hadn't ricocheted off my work bench, into a wall, and back into the work bench. All this of course, after almost breaking 2 fingers and my wrist.
> 
> Of course, it also ruined the board, as well as severly dulling the knives in my planer. Seriously, just don't do it!


And it wasn't the fault of end grain, it was something else wrong as indicated previously. For some reason the front of your board raised up when the feed roller pressed down on it, and you were potentially taking too deep of a cut.

Carefully watch the video, he does a great job of explaining all of the things to watch for.

I've had boards launch on the table saw. I don't stop cutting 1/4" ply because I screwed up and launched a piece back at myself. I learned from it, and now take the appropriate precautions. Same with running end grain, user error is not a reason not to do it. Proper preparation and technique will reduce and eliminate user error. Just realize if you don't take the proper precautions(in anything woodworking) damage can occur to you, tools, and anything around you.

Watch the video, follow the instructions, no need for a drum sander.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

shoot summ said:


> And it wasn't the fault of end grain, it was something else wrong as indicated previously. For some reason the front of your board raised up when the feed roller pressed down on it, and you were potentially taking too deep of a cut.
> 
> Carefully watch the video, he does a great job of explaining all of the things to watch for.
> 
> ...


This wasn't rocking or taking too deep a cut. The cut was less than 1/64 of an inch, and the base of the board I had already planned flat. This was the blades in the planer not being meant to cut end grain. Just because a YouTube video can be done does not mean it should be don't. 

Tools are only safe so long as you operate them as they're meant to be operated, and thickness planers are meant to work on face grain, not end. Just because you've got lucky doesn't mean that other people are stupid for not using you way


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## pinwheel (Jan 17, 2010)

You boys are about to make me accept the challenge. I believe I could do it with my 20" spiral head taking light cuts.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I have a 10hp, 5000 pound planer and there is still no way I am sending something like that through it.


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## jacko9 (Dec 29, 2012)

I don't do a lot of end grain cutting boards but, I have made several out of hard maple and have run them through my Powermatic model 100 planer with shallow cuts without any problems. I guess I have just been lucky and now that I have replaced my straight knife cutter head with the Shelix cutter perhaps I'll be more cautious! I did allow for edge chipping with extra length.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Go ahead, I'll hold your beer! :laughing:

Hopefully some of the posts may have got it across that this is not a safe operation.


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

epicfail48 said:


> This wasn't rocking or taking too deep a cut. The cut was less than 1/64 of an inch, and the base of the board I had already planned flat. This was the blades in the planer not being meant to cut end grain. Just because a YouTube video can be done does not mean it should be don't.
> 
> Tools are only safe so long as you operate them as they're meant to be operated, and thickness planers are meant to work on face grain, not end. Just because you've got lucky doesn't mean that other people are stupid for not using you way


Sorry, doesn't add up, 1/64 at the proper rate isn't going to kick it like that. Something else was going on.

Regardless from my perspective we can all just agree to disagree on this as there seems to be two distinct camps. I'll continue to do what I've been doing.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. Seeing something in a YouTube video doesn't make it a good idea either.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

shoot summ said:


> Sorry, doesn't add up, 1/64 at the proper rate isn't going to kick it like that. Something else was going on.
> 
> Regardless from my perspective we can all just agree to disagree on this as there seems to be two distinct camps. I'll continue to do what I've been doing.


You know, the fact that it kicked like that kinda proves that it can kick like that


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*here's what I would do .....*

Planers have different cutterhead speeds and different feed rates. The cast iron 15" by Grizzly turns at 4800 RPM: http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Planer/G0453

The bench top by Dewalt has a 10,000 RPM cutterhead:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/13-inch-Planer-with-3-Knives-and-2-Speeds/T22222

The cutterhead speed and the feed rate is the most important factor in whether the end grain would split out.
That would account for the success or failure of the attempts to perform this operation, and no one has mentioned it.

I would also add some extension "rails" to the sides of the block to prevent tipping and snipe when entering and exiting the planer:










As was mentioned the blade should be as sharp as possible, the depth of cut very light and the feed rate as slow as possible. It's really no different than planing a highly figured crotch grain or a species of wood where the grain changes direction back and forth. It is possible to do successfully, but there are mechanical limitations and procedure that should be followed. That said, I have never done this specifically myself, but I have planed some woods with pretty weird grain. With some woods you can just flip the piece around and run it through again. However, on an end grain cutting block it won't make any difference. :no:


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

by now it should be recognized that a risk exists with the operation. if anyone says it is safe and fool proof, they are misleading imho. check the owners manual, it likely recommends running long grain, not short grain.

if you can afford to replace your planer IF the accident occurs, and/or risk injury, then go for it.


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## JoeMemphis (Jan 19, 2013)

I went ahead and made a planer jig for my router, what's the best router bit to use?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

most any bottom cutting bit will work. however, a straight edge cutter could leave lines at the edge of a cut. a bowl cutter shouldn't.

http://woodworkersworld.net/bowlandtray_bits.shtml


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## JoeMemphis (Jan 19, 2013)

Used a bottom cutting bit I use for dados and it left the end grain really rough but it turned out even. Would the bowl cutting bit be any smoother a cut? Would a more shallow cut be smoother(had to cut a little deeper to even out bottom)? Should I be at full speed on the router, or a slower speed? The bottom is even now I have to even the top hopefully a little smoother.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

JoeMemphis said:


> Used a bottom cutting bit I use for dados and it left the end grain really rough but it turned out even. Would the bowl cutting bit be any smoother a cut? Would a more shallow cut be smoother(had to cut a little deeper to even out bottom)? Should I be at full speed on the router, or a slower speed? The bottom is even now I have to even the top hopefully a little smoother.


Cutting end grain with a router wont leave the surface perfectly smooth, but then again nothing short of a drum sander will. A bowl cutting bit has lightly radiused corners on the bit, to leave a rounded cut at the bottom of the cut. in your case, using one should prevent the corners from leaving tracks, but having never tried it i cant vouch for it. The theory makes sense though, and id recommend trying it if you have a bowl cutting bit though. 

Personally, id recommend using the largest diameter straight bit you have, to cut down on the number of passes needed to hit the whole surface. A bottom-cutting bit would be a good idea, but lacking a bottom-cutting bit you can still use a regular bit, just lower the bit off the workpiece, then engage the wood.

No matter what though, youll still need to do some sanding to get a perfectly smooth surface. Not much, mind you, but some


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## Oakwerks (Mar 24, 2013)

Do yourself, and your workpiece a favor, buy a drum sander.... I don't know how I got along without one.... They're not cheap, but if you're taking the time to make beautiful cutting boards (end grain, or not), you won't be sorry.... Mine is a Jet 16-32, about $1100.... I don't use it every day, but have never been sorry I sprung for it.....


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## JoeMemphis (Jan 19, 2013)

I'd love to buy a drum sander but I can't afford to sink $1000 into a tool I'm going to use sparingly. I've been trying to call around to see if any cabinetmakers have a drum sander that I could run my boards through, but no luck yet...


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## punkin611 (Sep 17, 2013)

*options*



JoeMemphis said:


> anyone got a drum sander they can borrow? Lol Well, I don't have a drum sander so I'm thinking I'll remove any excess glue and glue on boards on the front and back and try the planer, taking it small increments at a time. Don't really have another option as I can't afford a drum sander. Thanks for all the advice.


Sure you do. Just flatten it with a sharp hand plane. Good practice for your woodworking skills. Forgive me I'm just old school. :thumbsup:


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## TheGeekPub (Oct 29, 2015)

I have a DeWalt DW735X planer too. I got the bright idea from watching that cutting board guy "mtmwood" that I could run one of my boards through it, endgrain up. I even attached the long grain runners like he does in all of his videos.

Let's just say it didn't go well at all. The cutting board came out the other end of the planer in about 5 pieces and set me back a set of blades. The thing jumped like a bronco until I could get it turned off.

I know there are a 1000 people who will tell you that I did something wrong or that I my board was bad, or whatever. But I'm telling you its not something I will ever try again!


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## fareastern (Sep 19, 2014)

punkin611 said:


> Sure you do. Just flatten it with a sharp hand plane. Good practice for your woodworking skills. Forgive me I'm just old school. :thumbsup:


Excellent advice!Even if the block were to stay intact while being machined,there _would,not might,_be breakout at the end of the cut.


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