# steaming wood......



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

So iv been asked to make some wooden bike fenders for a friend mine and was wondering if any one had made set or may have an opinion of my plan.

What i want to do is make fenders with a curve on the inside( tire side) as well as the out side (top) of the fender. In my mind i want to get my blank all cut and squared up. From there ill do the cove for the under side of the fender on my table saw, set it in my steamer and then bend to my form. From there its as simple as routing the outer(top) side of the fender on my router table.... I can easily make flat fenders but i would really like for the compound curve ones to work out on the first shot...

Any thoughts or opinions out there?


----------



## Julian the woodnut (Nov 5, 2008)

You aren't going to get compound curves from steam bending or any other type of bending. I think your most likely going to have to steam bend for the initial shape, then carve and shape the side to side curve of the fender.


----------



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

The under side curve of the fender was going to be done before hand. In all reality im just curious if this cove of sorts is going to stay in its shape and not deform any way. Im just trying to avoid making a router table that has a radiused top to support the fender>


----------



## Streamwinner (Nov 25, 2008)

I think the problem is that the amount of material on the edges of the cove when the fender is STRAIGHT *is more than* the amount of material on the edges of the cove when it is CURVED. Thus, when you try to bend it, that extra material has to go somewhere, and it will deform.

It's the same reason that you can fold a cylinder from a piece of paper but not a circle.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would make a curved form for the fender and do a glued up lamination. Lay enough lams to use to cut into and form. Doing a glued lamination will not have the springback that steam bent will.

If its thick enough, a power rasp (for the inside), and a handplane/spokeshave, or a belt sander will do the outside.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*This is a very ambitious project JMO*

If it were me, thankfully not, I'd split the fender in half down the centerline of the wheel, to get 2 coves on a large diameter radius. These coves can be shaped on a router table or shaper with a "cove cutter" using a pattern and rub bushing at the desired radius. It's then a matter of joining the two large radius sections at the centerline using a ployester resin and some cloth on the both sides or just the underside and possibly a laminate or two on the top side, maybe nothing. As C-man says a multiple laminate will hold it's shape and not spring back. You'll still need a form to laminate over, however. 
Just a  remark...There's a reason they don't make compound complex curves out of wood. The wood doesn't like it, and rebels. Wooden fenders have gone the way of wooden car bodies.....Now wooden boats, that's a different story. They will always right up there with beautiful women in my book. :thumbsup:


----------



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

All your input is definatly appreciated for sure! So as an update i made a glue up today 1 inch thick in 1/8 inch plys and im gonna play with it and see what i can do. but just to give you guys an idea of what im shooting for, i got a link.

http://www.woodysfenders.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=287 

there is def. an art behind making these and im sure there is a way i can do it. iv yet to get my steamer up and running but i do have the multiple laminations cooking as i type..... tomorrow i will see


----------



## slatron25 (Dec 18, 2007)

That's cool. And what a unique niche you have there.


----------



## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

I was going to suggest the same thing as cabinetman. You can't do this in "one step" either with or without routing so it will be easier (and I think will look better) as a lamination around a form. I'd make 1/4" wide strips and glue them around a "tire shaped" form then get the final shape by sanding.


----------



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

so i guess im gonna look for some big router bits and try out shaping some stuff up out of a laminate blank.... i already found a big half round that will do my out side curve now the search starts for a router bit that more of a ball shape almost, for the inside of the fender?


----------



## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Majestic, I'd say a big cove bit should do the trick, though I don't know how likely you'll be to find one that large.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

frankp said:


> Majestic, I'd say a big cove bit should do the trick, though I don't know how likely you'll be to find one that large.



I don't think so either, and using a router on the inside of a curve would be difficult. I suggested a rasp (like one that fits a drill).


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I've been looking*

At those compound curved fenders on the link. It just seems to me that they are all built up laminations with little if any routing. Sanding yes , routing...no. JMO. They would be too fragile and tearout would be a nightmare. Also the narrow stirps of alternating wood type would lend themselves much more to complex curve bending than wider ones. Too bad you can't pick the guy's brain to determine his process, but he looks like he's figured it out very well. It may be a two part form that compresses the thin strips while they are glued up. It's hard to tell if the strips are very thin and multiple laminated or if it's only one thickness bent over a form. They are too way cool! :yes: bill


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I checked out the site, and I'm willing to bet all of Bill's money that the underside of those fenders are likely flat. The topical treatment can come from a buildup on the edges (to look like it curves down), and in the middle (to give it a raised look).

Doing it that way only the top side gets shaped, which can be done with a spokeshave, handplanes, block sander or belt sander. In looking at the different sizes, there probably aren't that many. He could likely use a bare wheel rim as a form. It would be easy to clamp lams to it.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> I checked out the site, and I'm willing to bet all of Bill's money that the underside of those fenders are likely flat. The topical treatment can come from a buildup on the edges (to look like it curves down), and in the middle (to give it a raised look).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Get ready to get my money out....
> It's nice to be right once in a while....:laughing: :icon_cool: bill



I said I would bet all *your money*, not mine.:laughing:

Actually the pictures I saw, the underside looks flat. If it's cupped, a few swipes with a convex spokeshave would do it.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Still on topic...sort of*



cabinetman said:


> I said I would bet all *your money*, not mine.:laughing:
> 
> You can bet *all my money *you want, I am still right. :smile: I talked to Woody himself (541)-815-1452 and after some "great work!" and "I'll bet you're not tellin' anyone how you do it" ..."NOPE"... *"They are cupped underneath, just like a plastic fender.*" .....C-man you owe me all my money....Just how do you intend to pay me? :blink: bill
> 
> ...


----------



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

so woodthings did you tape record this conversation so i could Analise it for further investigation? although i have numerous ideas on how to do it im looking for the fast an efficient way to get them done. I have found the router bits i need all 200 dollars worth haha next week i may have a first rough run till then


----------



## codyd (Mar 11, 2010)

Ok you guys are kill'n me here. My fenders are FULLY SHAPED! They are concave/ convex and shaped just like a plastic fender. Nuff said. Woodnthings did in fact call me to confirm so somebody owes somebody some money....or beer. And you guys are right. I'm not fessing up how I do it. Just be satisfied that I do what I do very well. Thank you very much- I feel better now. Cody


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

codyd said:


> Ok you guys are kill'n me here. My fenders are FULLY SHAPED! They are concave/ convex and shaped just like a plastic fender. Nuff said. Cody



*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*

If there's a full contour on both surfaces, I'll take a stab at a procedure which is not a secret. If the shop is so equipped and the skill and tenacity is present, it can be done by coopering.

Long strips the length of the fender, cut into sized strips to bend in the length needed are beveled both edges so when glued together they form the lateral curve. Likewise they are thin enough to bend in their length. With a form it's done at the same time.

But, you don't have to confirm or deny this technique.


----------



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

cabinet man you just revealed the technique i was gonna try i think. A friend of mine builds wooden canoes and he was telling my the way he does his shell. more or less he will cut all his strip to wrap the ribs of his canoe, then he will run them through his router puting a half round on one side of the strip and doing a cove of the same radius on the strip mating to it above. (so each strip has a cove on one side and a half round on the other) i guess in doing it this way it will get close to the curvature i want, and then only a minimal amount of routing is needed. Soooo i know you can do it on a canoe but not sure about if you can twist and contort it in the tight radius of a fender. To tell you the truth i dont have the time to make an assembly line of fenders since im a contractor i already work from 7:30 am to 5 at night and have 1000 other hobby's as well. So if i have to do a little bit of shaping by hand not a big deal at all. ill leave the mass production to Cody, although i will make a couple sets for my bikes as well =)


----------



## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Somebody has more money than smarts if they are willing to pay $200 for a set of bike fenders. They do look neat though.

Gerry


----------



## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

*The biggest mystery is*

How can he produce these by individual order one set at a time, materials, hardware, 4 coats of finish, website ... 2 fenders for only $200? Must be a love of labor.


----------



## codyd (Mar 11, 2010)

*Woody's*

For those that question the $200.00 price- try buying the stainless steel hardware, brass, wood, tooling, etc... that goes into producing these fenders and then tell me that $200.00 is too much. And I didn't say anything about the time it takes to make them. If you take a look around the web and see what others are charging for FLAT profile fenders (not compound curve) you will see that my fenders are a pretty good deal. You have to remember that this is high end custom stuff and not just for the every day dork who wants a set of fenders. People who buy my fenders have bikes that cost more than a lot of peoples cars. People that are into golf will spend crazy money on fancy stuff as well- it's all relative.


----------



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

when some one wants to ride a set of wooden fenders its not all for the functionality of it... there is many style points involved as well. it can be compared to some one driving a honda verses a nice sports car its all preference.


----------



## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

*Agreed*



Majestic Builders said:


> when some one wants to ride a set of wooden fenders its not all for the functionality of it... there is many style points involved as well. it can be compared to some one driving a honda verses a nice sports car its all preference.


Could be a unique way to show your abilities as well as a good conversation starter. Could be an asset to your business as well, but our craft is part of who we are. We gravitate toward challenge and may not even have any desire to share our work, rather just enjoying what you have created because of the self satisfaction of the process and result. 

I have chosen not to create a gallery as I have no need to share. They are unique to me and mine. Maybe too many years in athletics, coaching, etc., highly driven, competitive atmospheres. Woodworking for me is for the soul, my soul that I choose to share only with a few. I have considered creating a gallery of some of my students work, haven't decided.

Along the same line, I'm into muscle cars, but enjoy the cars for what they are and what they will do, not to have a trailer queen, only brought out for shows, and polished incessantly.:icon_smile:


----------



## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

so my compound curve experiment has worked, so far i have my inner curve done as well as the curve that wraps around the tire... just waiting on my router bit to do the outer curve! given this is all out of pine at the moment.... second run will be hardwood


----------

