# Butcher Block Tops - How Thick?



## gideon (May 26, 2010)

I am coming up with ideas for an island top at 1 3/4 x 60 x 30 and, so far, I've come up with two possibilities:

1. End grain maple or
2. Butcher block style

Question is two fold:

1. I see a lot of butcher block tops are 3" or more thick. Can I do it in 1 3/4" or will that cause stability problems? And
2. Customer says they'd like it stained dark. With butcher block, the color will change to a honey color. But, if they want darker, would a darker stain even take to maple without blotching? What would happen staining end grain en mass like that? Peaks and valleys? 

Thanks for any advice you can provide.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

considering that most lumber is flat sawn, there is also the option of edge grain glue ups. Don't know about staining, food safe, and applying a food safe top finish - i prefer mineral oil. i've made 1" thick that have held up well so far. finish both sides same amount.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

I believe that "butcher block" technically refers to endgrain up construction, but I know the term is used loosely to also refer to edge grain surfaces.

I've built a number of true butcher block surfaces, from a real, 11-inch thick freestanding block to an 11-foot L shaped countertop using almost 700 3-inch tall blocks.

The thinnest one I have made was maybe a little less than 2 inches thick and about 18" x 24". It dropped in to a recess in a conventional countertop. 

I'd worry a little about a large counter-top sized piece that is only 1-3/4 thick. If I tried it, I'd make sure it is well supported, but otherwise let it float so it could adjust to moisture content variations. 

As for staining dark, I'd sure try that on something smaller first. Traditionally, end grain blocks are just treated regularly with mineral oil. The end grain sucks up an amazing amount of oil, even after decades.

I can post pics if anyone is interested.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

I'd love to see pics!

They were saying that it will hang 10" beyond the table this is going to be attached to. I am not comfortable with that at all. But, I thought, maybe I could run some support pieces through it at several points, moving across the piece. Like embedded rails.


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## Taylormade (Feb 3, 2011)

Heck yeah... my wife has been getting on to me lately about redoing our kitchen cabinets and countertops. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

OK, in the link below, the freestanding block is the frst picture. The countertop is about two-thirds down the page. I don't have a pic of the smaller drop-in block handy.

http://bullfire.net/Furniture/Furniture.html


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

ed_h said:


> OK, in the link below, the freestanding block is the frst picture. The countertop is about two-thirds down the page. I don't have a pic of the smaller drop-in block handy.
> 
> http://bullfire.net/Furniture/Furniture.html


Awesome. Just awesome.


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## UKfan (Nov 16, 2010)

Holy cow, you still use a real drafting table ed_h...i thought they went the way of the dinosaurs years ago.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

gideon said:


> 2. Customer says they'd like it stained dark. With butcher block, the color will change to a honey color. But, if they want darker, would a darker stain even take to maple without blotching? What would happen staining end grain en mass like that? Peaks and valleys?


Why stain a light wood when a dark one will do ?


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

UKfan said:


> Holy cow, you still use a real drafting table ed_h...i thought they went the way of the dinosaurs years ago.


I don't use it much any more, but it can be useful for laying out paper patterns.

It's one of the first woodworking projects I built.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Don't stain a butcher block that's actually going to be used as such. It's just a bad idea all the way around. If they want it dark, select a dark wood and use that rather than poisoning them with stained maple. (No, it isn't actually very likely that a stain would cause health problems but why take the risk?) 

I made a small "cutting table" cart with an edge grain "block" top that is only about a half inch thick. It's only 18 x 24 or so but it's lasted about 6 years so far. Other boards/blocks I've made before still stand up well after 10 years and certainly not thicker than 4/4. As long as it's well supported and has room for movement, the thickness really won't matter that much. The key there is the room for movement. The support structure will just help prevent sagging for any large spans. On an island you should have more than enough support for a top that size without any "extra" support additions.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

frankp said:


> Don't stain a butcher block that's actually going to be used as such. It's just a bad idea all the way around. If they want it dark, select a dark wood and use that rather than poisoning them with stained maple. (No, it isn't actually very likely that a stain would cause health problems but why take the risk?)
> 
> I made a small "cutting table" cart with an edge grain "block" top that is only about a half inch thick. It's only 18 x 24 or so but it's lasted about 6 years so far. Other boards/blocks I've made before still stand up well after 10 years and certainly not thicker than 4/4. As long as it's well supported and has room for movement, the thickness really won't matter that much. The key there is the room for movement. The support structure will just help prevent sagging for any large spans. On an island you should have more than enough support for a top that size without any "extra" support additions.


Exactly. I was talking with them about this exact issue. So we selected walnut. 

The top will hang 10 inches over one rail. I was thinking it might need support on that side but face glued at 1 1/2" thick I thought would be very strong. I was thinking of embedding a cross piece running the width of the piece like embedded rails but I don't know if that will hinder movement.

Or, as I glue up in segments, inserting biscuits per 4"-5" segment.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

gideon said:


> Exactly. I was talking with them about this exact issue. So we selected walnut.
> 
> The top will hang 10 inches over one rail. I was thinking it might need support on that side but face glued at 1 1/2" thick I thought would be very strong. I was thinking of embedding a cross piece running the width of the piece like embedded rails but I don't know if that will hinder movement.
> 
> Or, as I glue up in segments, inserting biscuits per 4"-5" segment.


If you are talking a 1-3/4" edgegrain glue up, a 10" overhang is probably OK, especially if it is the end grain end that is overhanging.

If it is a side (not end grain end) overhanging, just imagine if a 200-pound guest decides to sit on the overhang. With good gluing technique, the determining factor is probably the strength of the wood species.

A true butcherblock construction (endgrain up) overhang would be the most vulnerable, IMO.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

ed_h said:


> If you are talking a 1-3/4" edgegrain glue up, a 10" overhang is probably OK, especially if it is the end grain end that is overhanging.
> 
> If it is a side (not end grain end) overhanging, just imagine if a 200-pound guest decides to sit on the overhang. With good gluing technique, the determining factor is probably the strength of the wood species.
> 
> A true butcherblock construction (endgrain up) overhang would be the most vulnerable, IMO.


These will face glued with the edge grain as the top. I am concerned about this too. But this is a replacement top for an existing freestanding base. They know what can happen. 

Material is going to be walnut. So, I was thinking of bracing it somehow underneath.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

gideon said:


> Material is going to be walnut. So, I was thinking of bracing it somehow underneath.


I agree. Walnut is not particularly strong, so some sort of support would be wise. Maybe a diagonal bracket at each end of the overhang, possibly with an "outrigger" apron to support the overhang.


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