# Howard's Restor-A-Finish???



## Foremost Refinishing

Any thoughts on the value of trying "Howard's Restor-A-Finish? Is this stuff worth it or stay away from it?

Thanks.

Tim


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## Steve Neul

I've never used it. From what I can see on the net it looks like it may be similar to Old English Scratch Cover. I have used that and it works good. All the Old English is is lemon oil mixed with dyes so the combination of oil and dye darkens places where the finish is flaked off or scratched. Anyway it won't hurt anything more than any other polish to try it.


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## Tony B

I posted this in your other thread but I will post it again for those that may have missed it.

The problem with using any of those restorers is their oil/stain/wax/polish content. 

The short term problem if you leave any trace of this stuff on a table top, some woman's expensive white blouse sleeves can pick up traces of the oils so after applying, make sure you dry it real well. Me personally, I would never use this on a table top. 

The long term problem is one of the biggest enemies of a refinisher is oil. When oil gets into the surface you will get a lot of fish-eye in your finish which is very time consuming to correct. As chemically corrosive and nasty as modern strippers are and the subsequent washing and TCP treatment that follow, there is usually still a small trace left behind. A little fish eye eliminator in your finish will help but not always work without having to re-strip those areas again. 
__________________


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## AnselmFraser

I would recomend staying away from anything that may cause you problems at a later date , chemistry is a VAST subject and something us woodworkers probably do not understand , my advise with finishing is to stay with well proven methods and your customer is less likely to complain that the beautiful finish that you delivered is now no longer so .
I hope this helps .
Anselm .


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## Rick Mosher

Here is a link to the MSDS sheet. As you can see the 1st ingredient comprising 40-60% of the product is a paraffin(wax) of some kind. Almost everything else is solvent with the exception of a tiny bit of gilsonite (asphaltum) for color. Seems like you could just make that yourself for a lot less money. If that top is lacquer it should clean up pretty well but all the touch up would probably take you more time than just sanding it down and refinishing it.


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## Steve Neul

Being a furniture refinisher at one time I preached to my customers the woes of polishes on wood because it caused me problems. Then after fighting with old furniture for a couple of years I discovered it doesn't necessarily have to be that much trouble. Anyway furniture polish is in all the stores and people are going to use them and my little voice wasn't going to change the world so I decided it was my problem anyway. A piece of furniture that you know has furniture polish on it or suspect it does, you wash the furniture down with a wax and grease remover first before you strip it. Normally any old piece of furniture that has had a glass like finish on it has had pledge put on it 3-4 times a week for years. Then you never get all the silicone off the furniture even stripping it so when you finish it back even with using a fisheye control solvent like smoothie it will still fisheye. On those pieces of furniture that reek with silicone if you spray a couple of very thin coats of finish with the smoothie it will create a barrier coat that will allow you to spray a wet coat.


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## cabinetman

Steve Neul said:


> Normally any old piece of furniture that has had a glass like finish on it has had pledge put on it 3-4 times a week for years. Then you never get all the silicone off the furniture even stripping it so when you finish it back even with using a fisheye control solvent like smoothie it will still fisheye. On those pieces of furniture that reek with silicone if you spray a couple of very thin coats of finish with the smoothie it will create a barrier coat that will allow you to spray a wet coat.


Those quickie fix up products are basically a wax and oil mix, which is why it will stick to most any surface. Using it will preclude any further finishing without complete removal. It's a temporary fix, not one to use and not one a professional would recommend.

If a product has been contaminated with silicone, it's possible to contaminate the area by sanding it. Fisheye remover (like Smoothie) is basically silicone. Once you use it, you will have to use it for all subsequent spraying to prevent fisheye. Once your area has been contaminated with silicone, which is evident by getting fisheyes, it's likely that you may never rid the area or your spray equipment of the contamination. Adding Smoothie to a finish is adding contamination. This is a well known problem in finishing shops and re-finishers especially if lacquer is used.

On another note, the problem with getting good finishes is eliminating interference media. If you think about the purpose of wax, and actually what it does, is why I don't use any wax in the shop.










 







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## HowardAcheson

Actually, the first item in the MSDS is a petroleum oil similar similar to mineral oil. The second item is a fancy name for kerosene.


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## Steve Neul

cabinetman said:


> Those quickie fix up products are basically a wax and oil mix, which is why it will stick to most any surface. Using it will preclude any further finishing without complete removal. It's a temporary fix, not one to use and not one a professional would recommend.
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> If a product has been contaminated with silicone, it's possible to contaminate the area by sanding it. Fisheye remover (like Smoothie) is basically silicone. Once you use it, you will have to use it for all subsequent spraying to prevent fisheye. Once your area has been contaminated with silicone, which is evident by getting fisheyes, it's likely that you may never rid the area or your spray equipment of the contamination. Adding Smoothie to a finish is adding contamination. This is a well known problem in finishing shops and re-finishers especially if lacquer is used.
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Well gees, I use old english all the time and it's no problem to clean off if need be. It doesn't really matter what the finisher thinks, people are going to use these products and it's up to the professional to deal with it. I don't have any problem. I also don't have a problem with Johnson paste wax. I use it on my machinery and from time to time on furniture. Wax is good for some finishes. 

Your comments about smoothie are ridiculous. Yes smoothie is silicone but it's not the plague. Just because you spray a piece of furniture with smoothie doesn't mean the shop has to be decontaminated. I have never seen silicone contaminate a sprayer. It will rinse out of a gun with lacquer thinner and you can put a straight finish in the gun and immediately spray another piece of furniture. I've sprayed furniture with a finish containing smoothie in the same paint room with 15 other pieces of furniture and didn't transfer any problems to the other furniture. I'm sure at least some silicone got on the other furniture but it wasn't sufficient enough to cause fisheye. The biggest problem transferring silicone when working multiple pieces of furniture is your hands and sandpaper. I mark the sandpaper with red paint that is contaminated with silicone so to be sure not to use it on a piece of furniture that is clean. I also thoroughly clean my hands after working on a piece of furniture with silicone. In my career the only time silicone has ever been transferred by accident is an employee that used contaminated sandpaper where he shouldn't have. The other occasion was another shop where I was an employee that the shop was using silicone spray lubricant on their saws and didn't know why the finish on the new cabinets were getting fisheye until I told them. 

It's just funny the things you worry about, I have no problem with.


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## cabinetman

Steve Neul said:


> Well gees, I use old english all the time and it's no problem to clean off if need be. It doesn't really matter what the finisher thinks, people are going to use these products and it's up to the professional to deal with it. I don't have any problem. I also don't have a problem with Johnson paste wax. I use it on my machinery and from time to time on furniture. Wax is good for some finishes.
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> Your comments about smoothie are ridiculous. Yes smoothie is silicone but it's not the plague. Just because you spray a piece of furniture with smoothie doesn't mean the shop has to be decontaminated. I have never seen silicone contaminate a sprayer. It will rinse out of a gun with lacquer thinner and you can put a straight finish in the gun and immediately spray another piece of furniture. I've sprayed furniture with a finish containing smoothie in the same paint room with 15 other pieces of furniture and didn't transfer any problems to the other furniture. I'm sure at least some silicone got on the other furniture but it wasn't sufficient enough to cause fisheye. The biggest problem transferring silicone when working multiple pieces of furniture is your hands and sandpaper. I mark the sandpaper with red paint that is contaminated with silicone so to be sure not to use it on a piece of furniture that is clean. I also thoroughly clean my hands after working on a piece of furniture with silicone. In my career the only time silicone has ever been transferred by accident is an employee that used contaminated sandpaper where he shouldn't have. The other occasion was another shop where I was an employee that the shop was using silicone spray lubricant on their saws and didn't know why the finish on the new cabinets were getting fisheye until I told them.
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> It's just funny the things you worry about, I have no problem with.


I'm not surprised you aren't familiar with the extent of silicone contamination. Before you make suggestions to a hobbyist that could cost him/her time and money, and possibly extensive problems with finishing or the equipment, I suggest you brush up on the subject.









 







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## Steve Neul

cabinetman said:


> I'm not surprised you aren't familiar with the extent of silicone contamination. Before you make suggestions to a hobbyist that could cost him/her time and money, and possibly extensive problems with finishing or the equipment, I suggest you brush up on the subject.
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You have it backwards. You are the one that doesn't know squat about silicone. I had to live with the problem. I operated an antique restoration shop for 10 years. I have enough experience with it that it is a trivial problem and if anyone follows my directions they will find out it is trivial too. I suggest you go back to google and find a better place to get your info.


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## Foremost Refinishing

Whoa, guys. Didn't mean to make this little thread into an argument. I am blessed to pick all your brains and absolutely appreciate any and all advice. 

Bottom line is I will stay away from the stuff I mentioned. Almost ordered it online but thought I'd check with you guys first. Thanks much.

Tim


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## Steve Neul

Foremost Refinishing said:


> Whoa, guys. Didn't mean to make this little thread into an argument. I am blessed to pick all your brains and absolutely appreciate any and all advice.
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> Bottom line is I will stay away from the stuff I mentioned. Almost ordered it online but thought I'd check with you guys first. Thanks much.
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I'm real sorry about that. It had nothing to do with your thread. It's an ongoing fight that has come back from time to time over the last couple years. Stick around, you will probably see it resume before the year is out. 

If you're not going to use the Howards you might go over the furniture with touch up markers. You can even buy those at walmart now.


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## Foremost Refinishing

Thanks Steve,

I have changed my mind and am re-staining darker with a dark walnut. It's looking pretty good if I do say so myself. Like I said, this is only for me and so I am "messing around" with it and basically using it as a test piece. 

I have tried to give it to my oldest daughter who is 25 yrs. old but she turned me down! Of all things! (LOL) :laughing: 

Depending how it looks after I am done, my wife said I should consider getting an antique sewing machine to attach to it and see if I get any takers if not to use, maybe just decorative. That's what I did for my boss with a similar piece. Hey, it didn't cost me anything in the first place so anything is a plus.:thumbsup:

Thanks again.

Tim


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## Molly from Montana

Tony B said:


> I posted this in your other thread but I will post it again for those that may have missed it.
> 
> The problem with using any of those restorers is their oil/stain/wax/polish content.
> 
> The short term problem if you leave any trace of this stuff on a table top, some woman's expensive white blouse sleeves can pick up traces of the oils so after applying, make sure you dry it real well. Me personally, I would never use this on a table top.
> 
> The long term problem is one of the biggest enemies of a refinisher is oil. When oil gets into the surface you will get a lot of fish-eye in your finish which is very time consuming to correct. As chemically corrosive and nasty as modern strippers are and the subsequent washing and TCP treatment that follow, there is usually still a small trace left behind. A little fish eye eliminator in your finish will help but not always work without having to re-strip those areas again.
> *__*


Hello folks - 

I am in need of your advice here. I have two vintage/antique sewing machines housed in their original wood cases that I am trying to restore to working order. Both are in pretty decent shape all things considered - mostly just deteriorated finish of some kind, one does have some water/wood rot in a small spot that I plan to try and fix with a wood hardener and then filler and then restain/refinish of some kind. I've read up on testing finish types, too, so I plan to get some mineral spirits etc. to try and see what finish is already there, so as to make the right choices when it comes time to pick a product. My question is related to the Howard's refinishing product - it looks, to the amateur like me, as if it'd be a perfect solution. Both pieces have beautiful color that is clearly an aged on petina that I don't want to disturb. Also, true refinishing is something I am afraid I may be unable to do - especially because I don't have power tools, and in any case, totally deconstructing the thing to get into every nook and cranny is likely to cause more harm than good coming from me, since I'd probably end up needing to reglue/reclamp as well as rescrew all the parts back together, and again I just don't think I'd do it right without a shop and experience. I've also read up on ways that it's possible to refinish without fully stripping the piece, depending on how bad the current finish is, and that seem like another way to go that might be safer, but again, if I mess up, I'm leaving a wreck for the next person who wants to restore this.

This Howard's stuff seems like a very good, safe way for someone like me to clean it up a bit without ruining the existing finish, which is my main concern. These are important pieces of history (to me at least) and I don't want to mess them up, but I can't afford the 400 mile haul to an expert restorer and in any case, I feel like this would be a valuable skill to learn to properly refinish wood. I see some folks here saying it'd be fine, so long as the later restorer knew what they were doing, others saying that it's always better to entirely refinish. That being the case, could someone help me to know what is the best 'polish' type way to maintain it once it's done? I mean, if all these polishes are ultimately harmful, how do I prevent drying and fading and the like? Do I just refinish every time it gets a dent? Sorry for all the questions, but they're all kinda related, so thanks in advance for your help!


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## DrRobert

I've restored a couple treadle machine cabs using that product & got good results taking care of scratches and evening out the color.

Every year or so I go over the old cherry desk in my office with it.

Follow it up with Howards FeedNWax.


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