# Measuring tools?



## thunderbyte (Oct 14, 2008)

Whats the prefered method for measuring? Im sure this sounds like an odd question, but I just cut up $120 worth of curly maple to make a few mantle clocks as christmas gifts. I was about 90% done when I noticed about 1/32 to 1/16" of play in the end hook on my tape measure. Since I measured all my cuts with the same tape, everything will be off. Im sure I will be able to work through it but its going to take some extra effort.

Anyway, what does everyone use for measuring? 

Len


----------



## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

Why would everything be off if you used the same tape ? All tapes have play in the end hook, if they didn't they would be off. The play is to compensate for the thickness of the hook, weather your hooking the end or pushing the end against something. I almost allways use a tape, sometimes I won't use the hook and I'll start at the 1" mark or wherever depending on what I'm measureing.


----------



## Shamus (Aug 22, 2008)

Every retractable tape measure made will eventually end up with some slop on the end. 1/16" play isn't unusual after a while. Throw it away and buy a new one before you do that again to more wood. 

OR

In my opinion, and there will be people that have a different one for sure, I do not ever use a tape measure for marking anything but rough cuts (unless your building a house).

I use a 6' aluminum adjustable square marked down to 1/32nd and I don't use a pencil. I use an exacto knife.

I know, it's just wood and it is a bit forgiving. But the truth is, with a sharp blade in your saw and attention to measurements things tend to fit together easier.

On the compound miter saw table I have an inset tape for reference and rough cuts and for multiple cuts of the same length I use a stop block. 

Always start with a clean cut on the end an measure away from it for cutting length.


----------



## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

That was funny...I really don`t know what to say.


----------



## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

Shamus said:


> Every retractable tape measure made will eventually end up with some slop on the end. 1/16" play isn't unusual after a while. Throw it away and buy a new one before you do that again to more wood.


Shamus, either you didn't understand my post, or you don't believe what I said. So, to prove my point, the next time you go to a hardware store I challenge you to pickup any name brand tape on the shelf and check the end hook for play. If you don't trust the hook, start at 1" and then add an inch. I don't know why this all has to be so difficult. For repetitive cuts I will agree that precision and production wise that a stop block on the miter saw is the way to go if your cutting multiple pieces that have to be identical.


----------



## Shamus (Aug 22, 2008)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> Shamus, either you didn't understand my post, or you don't believe what I said. So, to prove my point, the next time you go to a hardware store I challenge you to pickup any name brand tape on the shelf and check the end hook for play.


:smile: We were both typing at the same time. Your post came in before mine.

I was refering to tapes that get worn out from retracting back into the case a few thousand times. That end play that's there (for measuring inside and outside) as manufactured, gets elongated over time.


----------



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

There has been discussion about tape measures here before (I use a stick rule 90% of the time :yes http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=709


----------



## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Shamus said:


> I was refering to tapes that get worn out from retracting back into the case a few thousand times. That end play that's there (for measuring inside and outside) as manufactured, gets elongated over time.


 
That's why I keep my finger under the blade and regulate how fast it retracts. I also let the end of the tape bump against my finger instead of hitting the hard case.


----------



## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

Ok Shamus, I agree there may be some excessive slop in the end of a tape that has seen ALOT of use, but from the original posters descrption it didn't sound excessive to me, a 1/16" is about the thickness of a hook. But a stop block on the mitersaw would of been the way to go for accurate repetitive cuts in my opinion.


----------



## steve mackay (Oct 5, 2008)

Hey now ! Don't feel left out ! I didn't know that the "play" was intentional 'till a couple years ago. I was the guy trying to compensate for it ! Could'nt figure out why everything was off THEN ! Now, all is right with the universe.


----------



## JackC (May 24, 2008)

I have a couple of these, the hook is real handy
http://www.dickblick.com/zz554/18/?wmcp=yahoo&wmcid=SiteSubmitProducts&wmckw=Printers+Gauge

and a 24" one of these

http://www.reuels.com/reuels/Stainless_Steel_Pica_Ruler.html

I also use tapes that I've "calibrated" by bending the tab using them.


----------



## breakfastchef (Jan 14, 2008)

I choose one measuring device, generally not a tape measure, and use it throughout a project. I often use a metal rule and a marking knife or a mechanical pencil. I think the key is to use a very sharply pointed marking device and a ruler with very thin division marks. Try measuring 3/4" on a folding wooden rule and a metal rule with thin marks. I find that 3/4" often could fall many places along the width of the 3/4" marking on the folding rule. Thin-marked rules tend to be more accurate than tapes measures and the like.


----------



## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

Breakfast, I can understand your point, but sometimes I think people get a little too particular. I could understand it as a machinist, but most woodworking prodjects aren't that critical. I know everyone has their own way of doing things and what works best for them. Thanks for shareing though. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

For rough cuts, I sometimes use a tape, if I can find
it. 
For all other work I use a metal yard stick, and a six
foot metal measuring stick! It's actually called a six
foot calibrated straight edge. :laughing:
For smaller pieces I use a metal 12" ruler. 
I have three metal yard sticks, all the same brand.

Look close at a metal ruler before you buy it, some
the calibrations do not go to the ends.


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

pianoman said:


> That was funny...I really don`t know what to say.


?????????????????????

G


----------



## breakfastchef (Jan 14, 2008)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> Breakfast, I can understand your point, but sometimes I think people get a little too particular. I could understand it as a machinist, but most woodworking prodjects aren't that critical. I know everyone has their own way of doing things and what works best for them. Thanks for shareing though. I'll leave it at that.


I do not disagree with your point, but when you have a project that turns up 1/32" off, there is some serious sanding to do. As a person with a machinest background, that last little bit in metal must be a real bugger. That said, I am lucky to be off by such a wide margin of 1/32nd" and hope to improve upon that in the future. Thanks for your post.


----------



## raskgle (Dec 10, 2007)

being blind makes my measurements very critical, so i use a talking tape measure and a click rule. they are at 1/16 inkurments so i cut serval cuts for close measurements.


----------



## thunderbyte (Oct 14, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies. Its definitely off, not just the normal play. I know because I checked using the hook and then again starting at the 1" mark. There is definitely a difference. Its an older tape and Im sure its due to the auto return not being controlled while retracting over and over. I try to be careful during retraction but who knows how the previous owner took care of it. I think Im going to pick up a new tape and also look in to a metal rule. I used to be a machinist so I can be pretty particular, probably too much at times but rarely will being too exact cause any problems (other than frustration!) I dont have a disk or belt sander so any tweaking will have to be done by hand, which Im trying to avoid at this point. I need these clocks for the holidays and with my schedule thats pushing it without any weird stuff to deal with. On a positive note, my clocks project is proving to be a lot of fun and so far moving along nicely. I will post results/pics when they are done. I will probably ask for advise on finishing to show off the curly maple wood, but that will be another post.....

Thanks again for all the replies!
Len


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I doubt my methods will impress anyone. I just use a Stanley tape measure. It's graduated to the 1/32nds and if I need more than than, I'll just sight split the line. Or, I may "cut the one", so to speak. I'm doing woodwork, not boring out cylinder blocks. Measuring to the thousandths is a bit of overkill to me, never had to do that. 

So as basic as it sounds to just use a tape measure, my work comes out OK for me.


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I use whatever method seems convenient at the time. Short measurements, under 18", generally get taken with a metal rule. I have a 4' metal rule but it does not get used a lot. A tape measure is probably used over 50% of the time.

A really critical measure, such as where one part has to fit between others, gets it's accuracy more. For a really critical cut, such as where one piece must exactly fit between two others, I achieve the accuracy by making the first cut too long and then slowly fitting and cutting to exact fit.

It has been my experience in wood working that relative accuracy has been more important than absolute accuracy. That is the final configuration of all parts is what I wanted rather than being sure that each individual board is exactly a given measurement. I am probably not stating this very well.

G


----------



## Tweegs (Sep 8, 2007)

Same here.
Tape for the long stuff, metal rule for the short.
Stop blocks when I need to cut several pieces to length, so if one is off a touch, they all are.
Seldom design anything that needs a cut finer than 1/8" anyway. i.e. wouldn't call for a cut to be 5-17/32", it would be 5-1/2 or 5-5/8. Easier on the eyes that way.
I have a heck of a time reading those small marks, even with the new glasses :yes:


----------



## Jeekinz (Apr 18, 2007)

breakfastchef said:


> I choose one measuring device, generally not a tape measure, and use it throughout a project. I often use a metal rule and a marking knife or a mechanical pencil. I think the key is to use a very sharply pointed marking device and a ruler with very thin division marks. Try measuring 3/4" on a folding wooden rule and a metal rule with thin marks. I find that 3/4" often could fall many places along the width of the 3/4" marking on the folding rule. Thin-marked rules tend to be more accurate than tapes measures and the like.


I made the mistake of using two measuring devices once and had a few errors. 

I have a myriad of measuring tools from digital calipers, to depth gauges, feeler gauges, tapes, 6" steel rules. I use dial indicators on all my machinery. Not to mention a few different angle finders.

I don't bother with the rules on speed squares, squares or tri squares because they are just not precise enough.


----------



## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

A buddy and I rebuilt several old Winnebagos a few
years ago, he was measuring inside for the studs
and I was cutting them.

When we started putting things together nothing fit.

They were all short. He remeasured and they were
7' 6" openings. I check the studs and they were
7' 6". 

I asked to see "his tape", it was a surveyors tape,
calibrated in tenth. The opening were over 7' 7".

We had to cut them all off and put a block under each
one.

I threw his tape in the trash, and he left it there.
:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

In the shop I use a 12 foot Stanley tape...when I`m running crown, I use a 35 foot Stanley tape, at the drafting board, I use a metal rule...I also keep a close eye on all my tape measures...the hooks can get bent. I made my own marking gauge...it has a marking disk with no side movement. I like Machinest squares...and use a T-bevel alot. When I buy lumber...I take a grading stick. I usually work alone, but if I`m working with someone else...I convey measurements in feet, inches and then fractions...Its much easier to figure center measurements that way. To each his own. I did find it a little funny hearing about the play of the hook on a tape measure. Sorry Rick


----------

