# LED shop lighting



## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Does anyone use, or know about, LEDs as the main source of lighting in the woodshop? Thanks.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Ycreek said:


> Does anyone use, or know about, LEDs as the main source of lighting in the woodshop? Thanks.


I've heard of a few guys using it. Kinda spendy for the average guy IMHO. 

http://www.smartlightingshop.com/store/categories/LED-Shop-Lights/
:smile:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I know fluorescent lights hide red and LED does not. Meaning a purple pen looks blue under fluorescent light. I like LED lighting and the energy use of them but the price and variety are not quite there yet. I have 4 fixtures with four 48" bulbs in each, so unless they make some LED bulbs o fit those fixtures I won't be switching anytime soon. The house on the other hand will start getting switched over soon if prices come down a little more.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

jschaben said:


> I've heard of a few guys using it. Kinda spendy for the average guy IMHO.
> 
> http://www.smartlightingshop.com/store/categories/LED-Shop-Lights/
> :smile:


Your not kidding. I know I can't afford those prices.:laughing:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

rrbrown said:


> I have 4 fixtures with four 48" bulbs in each, so unless they make some LED bulbs o fit those fixtures I won't be switching anytime soon.


I happened onto this site a few days ago. They look to have T8 replacements. I have not looked deeper to see if they need different fixtures.

http://www.polar-ray.com/T8-LED-Tubes_c_86.html

The CREE based LED's produce a lot of light.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

I can't find a comparison on the light output (lumens?). If i need 8 4' t8 fixtures, how many cans/bulbs will put off the same amount of light? I don't know. These things must be too new.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Ycreek said:


> I can't find a comparison on the light output (lumens?). If i need 8 4' t8 fixtures, how many cans/bulbs will put off the same amount of light? I don't know. These things must be too new.


While searching to try and find an answer to your question, I found there are a LOT of places now selling LED lights.

I am personally interested in replacing my outdoor floodlights. I hate having to get on the ladder to replace the bulb. I replaced one last winter and it has already blown.

It seems the T8 output varies from one manufacturer to another. The bulbs also loose some light output over time, so you need to look at the "Initial" lumens and "Mean" or average lumens over the life of the bulks.

Initial lumens for a T8 appears to be anywhere from 2800 - 3100 lumens and corresponding Mean, from 2500 - 2800.

The LED T8 replacements also vary in wattage and lumens, but it seems they range around 1500 - 1600, so you may need twice as many to achieve the same output.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Like I saI'd there not quite there in price. I have 16 t8 bulbs so to replace them it would cost $800 which is crazy. Even at 1/2 the wattage and possibly longer life the math don't work out. Not to mention my t8 bulbs in there are 5 ears old and going strong.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

I install 3 small indoor flood light type bulbs over a kitchen counter. I believe they pull 8 watts each. They were pricy at about $25 each. I figure it will be a 3 to 4 year pay back. I am well pleased with the light output and have had them about 2 1/2 to 3 years.
Tom


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Last I saw is they don't make screw in bulbs over 60w, and they cost about $25.oo a bulb. That is doable with enough fixtures. If you have regular screw in fixtures. 3 fixtures would outperform 1 ea., 4 tube flourescent, since they are 40w ea. x 4 = 160w total.
Now they are phasing out F40 flourescent bulbs and the new ones are less bright and double the cost. No moer $1.50 a tube when bought in bulk.
They use ~1/10th of the power and last ~30X as long. Long run is a major savings.

It might be wise to not buy the fixtures you have a link to (very expensive), but instead just go to the hardware and mount 3 or 4 regular bulb fixtures to a chunk of plywood, and install some led bulbs.
I think you can also get them in various colors as you can also for flourescents.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Everyone is right, the price isn't there yet to start replacing florescent lights. The one advantage that LEDs may eventually have for lighting is the wavelengths available in LEDs is very wide. Theoretically, you can customize the lights with almost any color (wavelength) you would like for your needs to achieve accurate color balance in the shop.

A couple of years ago I started looking into LED fixtures to replace florescent lights I use for starting seedlings. You could get any balance of red/blue light depending on your needs. One color mixture to stimulate vegetative growth and another for flowering/reproductive growth. Unfortunately, to replace florescent lights with LED fixtures would have cost ~ $200 per 4 foot florescent I currently use. I'm sure prices have come down significantly since then, but they still can't match the $20 or so I spend on each florescent.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Another thing I'm learning to pay attention to is the CRI (color rendition index) usually stated in °K. The higher the number, the closer to natural light I believe. Whatever, I tray to stay at at least a 6500K, 7200 when I can get them. :smile:


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

If your product is to be used indoors and your picky about color, you might as well go with standard bulbs. After all, that is what your product will be subjected to and seen in, in real life.

Flourescents are just good strong shop lighting to help you build in.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

aardvark said:


> If your product is to be used indoors and your picky about color, you might as well go with standard bulbs. After all, that is what your product will be subjected to and seen in, in real life.
> 
> Flourescents are just good strong shop lighting to help you build in.


If you think about it, most indoor lighting is becoming flourescent. Incandescent has been quietly tiptoeing away the last 20 years or so. I think production of 100W incandescents either ended this year or will next year. The rest of the wattages are scheduled for phase out. I think I heard that China no longer makes incandescent bulbs.:blink:


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Right, but that could be short lived and over to LED, since the mercury contamination and even (possible) skin cancer and (definite) eye issues are coming to evidence from these twistie bulbs.

I won't have them in my home.


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## TMA Woodworks (Apr 23, 2010)

John you are right. Incandescent has been slowly dying. But is some cases so has fluorescent. The list of lamps that have gone are T12 4', T12 8' single pin & high output (except for the cold temp version, thank you mister sign lighting lobbiest) 100 watt incandescent (to be replaced with a 74 watt halogen) all mercury vapor lamps. Even some of the T8 4' tubes have been axed. LED is the up and coming thing but there are few things nobody ever talks about. LED light is very directional. Meaning it does not spread to fill the room. They have to put optics on the lamp to get the beam to spread. Generally you get hot spots and dark spots. LED diodes may last forever but the driver does not. This is the money part. Cheap LED have cheap drivers. They cannot be replace when it goes south. Also LED do not like heat. I know you can run one all day and still hold it in your hand but that amount can still kill the lamp. That is why they have so much heat sink on them. Fluorescent are getting close to that 50000 life. Many right now do 30000-35000 hours but you have to look at the whole system.  You would need a program start vs a rapid start ballast. Another fun fact about fluorescent's, did you know that a good percentage of energy comes from coal powered plants, that these plants put mercury into the environment, that if you take a 13 watt fluorescent and a 60 watt bulb (about equal in light) that the amount of mercury put into the system to generate the energy to run that extra 47 watts is more than what is in the 13 watt compact fluorescent. Yes fluorescent's use mercury but when you will be putting less into the environment plus when when you dispose of it it will be put into a controlled landfill opposed to putting it into the air I think that it is a step in the right direction. As energy gets more expensive LED's and whatever comes after them will be the way to go. Right now, it has it's applications but personally I don't think the shop is one of them.
For comparison information go http://www.tcpi.com/North-America/Home.aspx. They are the number one producer of fluorescent lights in the world. They also make LED lights. You can download specs on any of their products and figure out what is best for the application. Way too much information!!!!!
Okay I'll get off my soapbox now.
Bob


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

jschaben said:


> If you think about it, most indoor lighting is becoming flourescent. Incandescent has been quietly tiptoeing away the last 20 years or so. I think production of 100W incandescents either ended this year or will next year. The rest of the wattages are scheduled for phase out. I think I heard that China no longer makes incandescent bulbs.:blink:


Yea are right. Currently the Federal government tells us how many gal of water we can use to flush our toilets and what type light bulb to use. When low energy light bulb get competitive the market react.
Tom


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## letral (Feb 9, 2013)

yes you can contact with the sites who make the led lights for decorations indoor and outdoor of shops, letragraphics.com is one of them who make these light based boxes or boards.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

I bought 4 of the 1' version of these Mac LEDs from Home Depot on line for under my kitchen cabinets. the 1' version is 3w and incredibly bright, and I paid $25/ea (plus a 12v converter). You could do a shop with longer version of them. Still more than IC or flour. but not too bad.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

As someone else already mentioned, with LEDs (or fluorescents, for that matter), you can choose the color temperature. Temps below 3000 degK are close to incandescents, while higher temps are bluer. It can make a big difference in how wood looks.

Color temp isn't the same as Color Rendering Index (CRI), though. CRI is another metric to watch. Higher numbers make colors look more natural. I believe a CRI of 100 would be equivalent to incandescent for lower color temp lamps or to sunlight for the higher temp ones.


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## Getting better (Dec 3, 2009)

Hey yall, thank you for the education.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Do the LED lights come up to full brighness when you turn them on?
I don't like the flicker. I have some fluorescents in my shop. 
I can go upstairs and make a sandwich before they brighten up.
That suggests to me that I'll leave them on. That suggests to me that I'll spend
more on power than if I had incandescents for 5 minutes to see what I'm cutting on the bandsaw.
Same in other rooms. I want BIG light, right now, for 2 minutes then off and I'm out of there.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I know its not exactly what you meant, but I use a rechargeable LED headlamp from REI all the time, in the shop & out. It has spot, flood, high, low, flash.... and for night, red on or red flash. I've made some jiggie things to hold it when I want to use it as a worklight but not on my head.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

led lights come on bright right away.
led's are still to over priced for shop lighting but the price is coming down fast.
i have swapped all my out door lighting to led mostly because it is on for 6 hours a day.
i have 2- $39 led flood lights in a $7 fixture, ouch.
but the payback will be short because of the amount of time they are on each day

most t8 and t5 fluorescent lights have quick start any more.
if your using the screw in bulbs or old t12 fixtures,
i'd recommend swapping them out for some t8 fixtures.


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## Julie Mor (Feb 10, 2013)

I recently changes the lamps in the shop fluorescent fixtures to a higher color temperature. It's measures in Kelvin degrees (K). The old lamps were around 4500K. The new ones are 6500K and it made a huge difference both in lumen output and color temperature. 

6500K is closer to natural sunlight in color temperature. When I used to keep a reef tank, I used 6500K metal halide lamps to mimic natural sunlight. The corals and plants seemed to love it.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Robson Valley said:


> Do the LED lights come up to full brighness when you turn them on?
> I don't like the flicker. I have some fluorescents in my shop.
> I can go upstairs and make a sandwich before they brighten up.
> That suggests to me that I'll leave them on. That suggests to me that I'll spend
> ...


LED light come on to full brightness when they are turn on. I have three small flood LED over a kitchen counter 
and the continue to glow for a few seconds when power it turned off.
Tom


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## jeffsw6 (Nov 24, 2012)

I recently installed LED under-counter lights in my kitchen as well. It made an amazing difference. I only spent $150 on a kit with 10 LED strips but they are not the most durable LED fixtures I've ever seen.

Here is a picture of the kitchen with the lights on. You can see a couple of the wires because I had not hidden them yet. http://inconcepts.biz/~jsw/img/1121127ab-kitchen_lighting.jpg

On the other hand, I do not have LED lighting in my garage or any other areas of my house. I have CFLs in most of my lamps and 48" fluorescent tubes in the garage.

I feel LEDs are generally too expensive to benefit me right now. Once they become cheaper I will probably buy them for other rooms.

I have electric heat (no gas, etc. here) so if I save 1kWh on lights by changing from incandescent or CFL to LED, I will just spend 1kWh more on the heat -- during the winter.

In summer it would reduce my air conditioning load. However I do not think the savings on lights would pay for the LED bulbs yet. Really the best way for me to save energy during summer is open the windows and use the AC less, and that is what I do until it gets pretty hot outside!


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

Another advantage of LEDs is that they can be dimmed a bit. Usually a low/med/high (not infinite, like IC or halogen). Much cooler, low profile, instant-on, low voltage, low consumption. And since they don't need fixtures, if you were planning on buying fixtures and bulbs for recessed or tube fluorescent, it's not much more to go with LED strips, which will end up being saved in electrical costs and lack of bulb replacement. Bonus, they are whole lot easier to wire.


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