# What do I have here?



## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

I was given these from a customer of mine. He told me to research them and come back with a price I would be willing to pay for them. 

So I'm coming to you folks to see just what I have and what you feel they are worth. 

I can load more pics if necessary. 

Thanks for looking. 
Gabe


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

Some more pics.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Not very good pictures.

You have 
a) Some socket chisels 
b) a Stanley No. 8 with a blade sharpened almost to the slot
c) a Stanley No. 5 in perhaps better condition, 
d) a Craftsman No. 5
e) a No. 3 missing a lever cap. Not sure if Stanley or a clone.
f) a Stanley block plane, not sure of the model could be 9 1/2.
g) a bevel rule
h) a spare blade, not sure of the size, but has been sharpened a lot
i) a spare blade and cap iron. Perhaps this blade is in better shape

Only you can decide what the value is for you.

The planes may be in decent condition. Pictures do not show details of the casting and whether any cracks.

You should be able to restore these if you want to make them into user tools. Just takes a decent amount of time.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

Looking on ebay i see the 220 block plane to be worth about $10.00. The Bailey No.8 looks to go anywhere from $30 to $150. The Stanley No5 about $30.00. 

Do these seem like a fair price to you folks? I don't really want to pay more then there worth at the same time I want to be fair in my offer to the seller. He is a older gentlemen who I believe could use the money.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Not very good pictures.
> 
> You have
> a) Some socket chisels
> ...


The one missing the lever cap has a KK3 cast into the front of it. Other then that no markings on it.

The number 8 has some chips in the lever piece.

Other then these chips i can see no cracks or damage to the metal. the handles are cracked on the No8 and No5.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

Pic of the lever.


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## Jayhawk2001 (Dec 28, 2010)

The KK-3 is a Keen Kutter made by the Ohio Tool Company. They are not worth as much as the ones marked with a single K. Those with one K are Stanley Bedrock.

Look up Keen Kutter Planes for the history of the KK-3 and K-3. 

I would be wary of the prices on EBay. Some people way over price. A number KK-3 without the lever cap is probably worth no more than 5-10 bucks. 

I personally would not pay more that $30 for a completed Stanley Bailey no. 3.

What's the condition of the tote on the no. 8? Look for cracks around the mouth going up where the sides arch. If there are any it is junk. If its not you may have a decent plane. Check for welds as well. Broken totes aren't a major issue but broken metal or iron are. Check for pitting as well. You will probably need to replace the blade on it.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Are you looking to resell or use these?


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

The thought is to try my hand at restoring and using them. As with everything in my life right now it will be awhile before this happens. Buying and remodeling my wife's family farm takes priority right now. 

Determining the value is more so I don't overpay or short change the seller.

I bought a Stanley 45 from the gentlemen a couple weeks ago that included most all of the parts for $25.00. We came up with that price after looking at ebay.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

You gave the man $25 for a #45, maybe it is just me but that is way under what a #45 is worth, unless it is almost total rust.


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## Jayhawk2001 (Dec 28, 2010)

What pieces was the #45 missing?


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

The 45 is missing a cutter/slitter piece made to cut thin slices. Also missing the short rods. The 45 also has a crack in the frame and a couple of spots that some brazed. Not really sure if it will even be usable. May end up just being a parts item. I will post some pics after I get out to the garage.

I took a closer look at the Stanley No5 in the pics above and found a crack in the main body. I guess that one will be good for parts only unless i find another body for it.

Please forgive me for not knowing the proper names of these parts.:smile:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

gabeleon said:


> I took a closer look at the Stanley No5 in the pics above and found a crack in the main body. I guess that one will be good for parts only unless i find another body for it.


I purchased a No. 5 on EBay. The seller stated it had a "crack" in the casting. I was looking to get this for parts.

When I got the plane, the "crack" was a full blown break from the mouth to the top of the casting. No surprise. Bad phrase. Crack infers not clean through the side.

I was able to use the other parts. I still have the "broken" casting.

FYI, the parts evolved over the decades. Older tote screws are shorter. Adjustment wheel started out about 1in then changed to be larger. Front knob started out low and fat, then became taller and thinner. Screw for the knob changed in height.

So if you keep the No. 5 for parts, just be aware, the parts will work for some types but not for all. Tis the nature of the beast.


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## Jayhawk2001 (Dec 28, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> I purchased a No. 5 on EBay. The seller stated it had a "crack" in the casting. I was looking to get this for parts.
> 
> When I got the plane, the "crack" was a full blown break from the mouth to the top of the casting. No surprise. Bad phrase. Crack infers not clean through the side.
> 
> ...


I see plane bottoms on ebay all the time. How practical do you think it is to buy one and hunt down the parts to build one up?

I keep seeing jointer bottoms on eBay and am thinking about a no. 8 but I don't know how hard it is to find exact matching frogs and tote screws and cap irons. Plus after rounding up those parts plus shipping I probably would not have saved much.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Jayhawk2001 said:


> I see plane bottoms on ebay all the time. How practical do you think it is to buy one and hunt down the parts to build one up?
> 
> I keep seeing jointer bottoms on eBay and am thinking about a no. 8 but I don't know how hard it is to find exact matching frogs and tote screws and cap irons. Plus after rounding up those parts plus shipping I probably would not have saved much.


 There's a reason that people part out planes for sale on flea bay. They make a lot more money selling individual parts - and you will spend a lot more money "constructing" a working plane from parts. Unless you have an almost complete plane that just needs a part or two, it just isn't worth it.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> FYI, the parts evolved over the decades. Older tote screws are shorter. Adjustment wheel started out about 1in then changed to be larger. Front knob started out low and fat, then became taller and thinner. Screw for the knob changed in height.
> 
> So if you keep the No. 5 for parts, just be aware, the parts will work for some types but not for all. Tis the nature of the beast.


I've already started to see this with some of the No 5's on ebay. Seems to be different types of the same number plane. The prices don't seem to bad though. I guess when the time comes I will do my research and roll the dice.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

trc65 said:


> There's a reason that people part out planes for sale on flea bay. They make a lot more money selling individual parts - and you will spend a lot more money "constructing" a working plane from parts. Unless you have an almost complete plane that just needs a part or two, it just isn't worth it.


It was and still is like this in the R/C car world. People would buy a brand new 1/8th scale Truggy or Buggy and part it out for way more then they paid. Generally though the purchaser could get a better deal buying parts this way rather then at a hobby store.


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## rtutsky (Jun 17, 2012)

From what I can see from the pics you have a lot of work to do getting those planes working. Replacing worn or broken parts just aren't worth it imo. The chisels could be cleaned and sharpened and most likely be users, also with the adjustable angle. I wouldn't offer more than $45 for the lot. More if you want to give the seller a "gift".


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

What I see...?
Hours of pure enjoyment...


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## aztoolman (Oct 13, 2013)

acowboy said:


> What I see...?
> Hours of pure enjoyment...


i would agree with this..


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Thanks guys,

gabeleon, parts can be found like you know on line, some can be gotten from a broken plane but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and pay top dollar for that one part, if you don't want to wait.

Take your 45 for example, just the parts alone is worth more than 25.00 you paid for it. Sooner or later you will find another body in good shape that needs parts that you have already have

Few months ago I had bought a complete 45 with a few extra parts, the 45 turned out to be a Sweetheart type 13 or later
Now the kicker, the so called "few extra parts" turned out to be another near complete type 12, 45 in very good condition.

So if your remodeling those tools just might come in handy, course you have to fix them up, but that is what I enjoy to do.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

A update on this thread. 
We settled on a price of $60 for the planes and chisels. We both felt happy with this price. 
When I went back he threw in another plane he had found in his attic. 



















He also had some bits and braces (I believe that's what there called) and a old level for an additional $20. 



















I have also attached some pics of the Stanley 45 that was mentioned earlier in this thread. 



















Now I just need it to warm up so I can get outside and start refurbishing these items. 
Thanks for looking.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

Maybe somebody else can help out, but before I did to much to the #45 you should do some research. I've never seen a front knob like that. I thought they were all rosewood. You MAY have something special there.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

timetestedtools said:


> Maybe somebody else can help out, but before I did to much to the #45 you should do some research. I've never seen a front knob like that. I thought they were all rosewood. You MAY have something special there.


I agree with timetestedtools, I haven't either seen that style of a front knob.

Think you did well in the purchase's....:thumbsup:


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't think the knob is original. If you look close it is brazed on there.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

gabeleon said:


> I don't think the knob is original. If you look close it is brazed on there.


You're probably right, its hard to tell from the pictures. Still a cool fixture!


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

That long plane looks a lot like a Seigley jointer I have. It's fantastic to use, though I really ought to patch a piece in to close up the mouth one of these days...


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

Pretty sure that transtional lever cap has "Sargent" written all over it (figuratively speaking)

Don - isn't this one of your areas of expertise?


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

It definitely looks Sargent made. Cap is Sargent and lateral looks Sargent. Show me the rest of the lateral and I can tell you what type it is.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

I will get more pics tomorrow. But first you have to tell me what the lateral is. It's it the little lever thing that will not slide all the way over because of the handle?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

The lateral reference is "lateral adjustment lever" which is the method to move the blade side to side so it is parallel with the sole.

Different companies had different designs for the lateral adjustment lever.

Brass City Records has an excellent summary of the various designs.

http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/graphics/plane id.html

If you are not familiar with the names of the parts of the typical bench plane, this site is a good reference. It shows the Record company, but they followed the Stanley design. It is the only site I have found so far which documents the specification of the hardware used in the bench planes.

http://www.recordhandplanes.com/parts-and-sizes.html


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

So I took more pics today. I also tried to clean up a little of the rust on the blade and on the lateral lever. The blade did not give up much info but maybe you guys can fill in the blanks. My camera did not take the best pics but it looks like the blade has says.
FU OL Co
NTED










The lateral lever can read. Looks like it says
PAT FEB 3-91









Here are some other pics I took in hopes of determining the maker of this plane. 





























































Thanks for looking and thanks for the links. They were helpful in figuring out the names of things.


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

hard to say what is stamped on your iron
maybe
"Fulton Tool Co." ??

In the future, consider listing unknown/indecipherable names like this:

"ST _ _ L _ Y"

that way, others can make educated guesses and discard possibilities which don't "fit."


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

Sargent made early Fultons. They were sold by sears. What you probably have is a type 2 Fulton, made by Sargent. Its their second lateral, although the patent date for the first and second was issued at the same time.


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

Does the patent date refer to 1891? And if so does that mean the plane was made around that time? 
Also wondering if the tote is original? It seems like it is in the way of the lateral adjustment lever.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

gabeleon said:


> Does the patent date refer to 1891? And if so does that mean the plane was made around that time?
> Also wondering if the tote is original? It seems like it is in the way of the lateral adjustment lever.


The patent date does refer to 1891. But this plane probably was made from 1901-1910. That's according to Dave Heckel's book.

The lat adjuster is bent. It should be tight to the underside of the iron. It was a close tolerance, and many totes have the imprint of the lat constantly being pushed into it.


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