# New cabinet saw...closing in



## IowaDave (May 21, 2015)

As of right now, I am favoring the Powermatic PM2000, 3hp, 30" Accu-fence, 220v saw.

I was strongly considering a very similar Saw Stop model until I found out recently that the blade stop feature would also engage when the blade contacts a nail/brad. It was pretty much a dead heat in my mind between these two saws until I found that out.

So, I am leaning towards the Powermatic now. Is there any advice that anyone has that would steer me differently? (Note - I am aware of the safety feature of the Saw Stop already, I am now interested in any other info to help make this decision final. I plan on making this purchase in the next 10-30 days...believe it or not, my wife is behind this idea :icon_smile: so I must act fast, before that passes. :thumbsup

TIA.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

With the SS, you can always turn the safety feature off if you're concerned about a particular piece of wood. You can't "turn it back on" with the PM2000. 

I don't own one, but happen to think that the safety feature of the SS is an absolute huge advantage in an otherwise very nice/expensive Asian-made saw. Usage is a big part of the equation too (pro or amateur), but as an amateur if I weren't buying a SS 3hp PCS to save my fingers, I'd lean toward saving many hundreds of dollars and get a Griz or Shop Fox 3hp cabinet saw....same league, just a bit lower in the standings. 

Good luck!


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

I made this same conclusion last year and bought the PM2000. I'm not sorry I did because it is one hell of a saw, but there are 2 things that bug me a bit about my decision
1) Sawstop does seem to have a better dust collection set up with the overhead blade guard. I may well purchase or build my own clone system, but if I'd gotten the SS, it would have been turn-key. 
2) The integrated mobile base only lifts this beast a fraction of an inch and takes _forever_ spinning that damn wheel. Because my garage floor is very uneven, it drags the cast iron base across the concrete. Luckily, it's build like a tank, so no damage so far (well, maybe to the concrete


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

I don't think you can go wrong with a Powermatic. 
Great saws with a good reputation.


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

A big part of my decision to buy a SawStop is that other people use my shop - daughters, sons-in-law (one with the attention span of a gnat), even grandchildren. I figure an occasional blade trip is worth the peace of mind. Unless you are the only person ever in your playhouse, you might include this consideration.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Ermm... How often do you hit a nail that it's that much a concern? Personally, in that price range is swing to the saw stop. Everything else seems pretty much equal, but the whole "won't cut your finger off" thing is a nice distinction


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

here's what I hear you saying....

can cut through nails, will cut off finger - powermatic

can't cut nails, won't cut fingers off - sawstop....

Seems a no brainer to me


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

I, as a rule, don't like inanimate objects that think they know better than I do. My wife's car dings at me for absolutely everything, whether I don't have my seatbelt on, or a tire is a few psi low, or a door is ajar. I know all these things and don't need to be dinged at. 

With a tablesaw, I take every precaution. I have never cut myself with any power tool. Apparently, SawStop doesn't know the difference between wet wood and fingers, so it'll cost $200 to find out you left a board outside too long. 

I have enough things that ding at me. I don't need a tablesaw doing it too. I hope to someday have a Powermatic tablesaw, and a lot of their other tools too.


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## IowaDave (May 21, 2015)

WesTex said:


> A big part of my decision to buy a SawStop is that other people use my shop - daughters, sons-in-law (one with the attention span of a gnat), even grandchildren. I figure an occasional blade trip is worth the peace of mind. Unless you are the only person ever in your playhouse, you might include this consideration.


This is a good point, thank you. ^^ Normally, I am the only one using my shop...but at this point, both of my sons are now more interested in using my tools and although they are 20 and 23, and pretty careful, they also do not have years and years of experience. So your point is making me think...

Someone else said that the SS safety system could be disabled. Does anyone know if I can potentially disable it temporarily, while cutting "used" wood where there is a fair chance to hit a brad/nail and then re-enable it once that cut is finished?

If it can be turned on and off easily, then that may change my stance. But I somewhat often use reclaimed wood and it isn't unusual to hit a hidden nail...and safety concerns acknowledged, I do not want to have to deal with "blade crash" each time I find a brad, etc.

Thanks for the feedback so far!


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## IowaDave (May 21, 2015)

epicfail48 said:


> Ermm... *How often do you hit a nail that it's that much a concern?* Personally, in that price range is swing to the saw stop. Everything else seems pretty much equal, but the whole "won't cut your finger off" thing is a nice distinction


Hit two last week. I often work with reclaimed wood, especially barn board. I understand the safety feature on the SS, but it is not my #1 concern. (Please understand that I am not saying safety is not important, it is. But I have also operated a table for several hundreds of hours without an incident. I know, I know...there's always the next time. But I am considering the risk/reward safety factor along with how I use my tool(s) while making this decision.)

I appreciate the concern shown by the especially safety conscious posters.


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

The bypass is easily activated. It is keyed at the on/off switch. Each time the saw is turned off it returns to the safety system. Activation of bypass takes 2-3 seconds.


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

I bought a Garret Super Scanner hand-held wand to use on anything I suspect may have metal in it. It serves me well. A moisture meter is useful if you think the wood is wet. Or just use bypass mode.


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## IowaDave (May 21, 2015)

WesTex said:


> The bypass is easily activated. It is keyed at the on/off switch. Each time the saw is turned off it returns to the safety system. Activation of bypass takes 2-3 seconds.


OK, well I am glad I asked...I don't think I have ever had a concern with wet wood, but nails/brads...yes. This is good info and I appreciate it.

It may be time to also invest in a metal detector. 

Now I am probably back to going with the Saw Stop...:icon_smile:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

No one ever has said after the fact, wish I had a less safe saw....

Many have said the opposite.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

ryan50hrl said:


> here's what I hear you saying....
> 
> can cut through nails, will cut off finger - powermatic
> 
> ...



I hope everyone understands you can still be injured with the safest of machines. Yes, even the Saw Stop. If you don't believe me, just put your finger in it! 
We all want to be safe. And although safety has come a long way, the machines we use are quite similar to the machines found in your neighborhood grocery and they will cut you quickly if your not safe.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Toolman50 said:


> I hope everyone understands you can still be injured with the safest of machines. Yes, even the Saw Stop. If you don't believe me, just put your finger in it!
> 
> We all want to be safe. And although safety has come a long way, the machines we use are quite similar to the machines found in your neighborhood grocery and they will cut you quickly if your not safe.





There's a number of sawstop videos that dispute that....but regardless, sawstop will stop a bunch of those injuries.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Powermatic. They've been around a lot longer and have a pretty good track record AFAIK.

That, and personally I'm not really fond of the "safety bubbles" todays society likes to try and incorporate into every aspect of our lives.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Chamfer said:


> Powermatic. They've been around a lot longer and have a pretty good track record AFAIK.
> 
> That, and personally I'm not really fond of the "safety bubbles" todays society likes to try and incorporate into every aspect of our lives.


The PM66 is a great sheet metal cabinet style saw.


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

*Powermatic PM2000 vs Sawstop PCS*

I think if you're basing your comparison only on false trips, you're not going to be making an informed decision. Most seem to compare the PM2000 to the PCS models because they are closest in price. *The PCS looks like a great saw and gets exceptional reviews, but it is not a PM2000.*

I should clarify that in my 1st post that my conclusion was to choose the PM over the SS, not just because of the false trips (though that did come into consideration). 


The PM has a cast iron base and for the 30" model that I purchased, outweighs it by a whopping 224 lbs - that's about 60% heavier.
The table is a full 3 1/2" deeper - about 12.5%.
The PM has a solid, beefy trunnion. The PCS has link bars.
The PM has stout UHMW fence plates. The SS appears to use a laminate of some sort.
The miter gauge is pre-fitted with an aluminum extrusion on the PM and is _heavy-duty_.

I was lucky to find a great deal on sale from CPO last year for the *PM2000 for $2,600 *shipped. At the time, the heavily price controlled* PCS was $3400* with the T-Glide fence upgrade and mobile stand. It added 6" of extra rip capacity and support legs (neither of which I wanted).

*Realistically, the ICS is the more comparable saw* - weight, trunnion and table size considered. This ships out *at about $4400* with the mobile base.

_If you want the safety feature of the SawStop, buy it. Peace of mind can be invaluable, but just don't kid yourself that you're only spending a few hundred more dollars for the same saw with a brake._


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## mrbc (Apr 9, 2014)

I wish I had sprung for a saw stop cabinet model, particularly since I had an accident with my current saw. I've basically paid the amount of buying one but don't have one sitting in my shop. grrr. Say what you want about Steve gass, his saws are, by all accounts that I've read, top quality AND have his revolutionary safety feature. 
Everyone says "I take all precautions and haven't had an accident in *** years...." That may be. I was careful too, until the day I lost focus for an instant. Don't think it can't happen or won't happen to you. I've learned my lesson and am very lucky to still have all 10 fingers. I can even still play guitar (happened to my left hand) for the most part. I've now acquired the safety items I was missing, and have corrected my operational process. It shouldn't happen again, but I remain extra vigilant.

You can be the most conscientious operator and still goof up and wind up seriously hurt. For protecting against blade contact injuries, the extra cost of the saw and a new blade and brake are peanuts compared to the medical bills you'd be in for. Trust me. Its a roll of the dice with "conventional" machines, and I understand the personal economic factors in a purchase decision.... My total bills top 10k if I remember correctly. That's only based on cursory glances over the many bill statements. I have pretty good insurance and glad I had some extra disability insurance. Just my opinion and reasoning for it. 

As for some points recently brought up:
I've read many times that UHMW fence faces have stability issues and can develop wavyness on the face. Biesemeyer uses laminate faces on their fences and they are THE benchmark by which all others are compared.


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