# Limitations of hand tools?



## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

This is my first post (other than introduction) and I understand how members can get annoyed with redundant questions that have been asked over and over again. With that being said I apologize ahead of time. I am new to wood working and I am very overwhelmed with where to start even with my searches! I have been looking into "must have" basic hand tools for starting. But my question is, what are the limitation of hand tools as far as projects. As far as a table saw and jointer planer and few other pieces I do have access to. but what types of projects will I be able to construct with basic hand tools? I'm thinking projects such as shelves, coffee table, end tables, or bed-frame for starers. Thank you for any responses and any links to good threads are always great.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I was in the same boat. Once upon a time, it was _all_ done with hand tools. That showed me that it could be done. They weren't called craftsmen for nothing.
My 10" Delta miter saw makes clean cuts at predictable angles (I fail by hand). My drill press gives me holes at predictable angles to the stock (I fail by hand). They save a whole lot of time.
Long cuts with the bandsaw or table saw can be dressed nicely with a #5 Stanley plane, I enjoy that part.
I can make useful things like bookcases but the design is mediocre, the appearance ugly, but for 1,500 volumes, they got the boxes finally emptied!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

is your goal to do it all without power tools because of the philosopy of it, or more because power tools are expensive and noisy?

if the first reason, check out this page ... http://paulsellers.com/woodworking-blog/paul-sellers-blog/

mine is more the 2nd reason.

that said, there are some things that are much easier with a power tool, ripping being #1, and getting a perfectly perpendicular hole being right up there near the top.

so i try to do things as much by hand as i can, but i will use power tools when i makes more sense.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

All pieces were done with hand tools prior to the machine era. The possibilities are limitless. :smile:


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

I'm not at all against power tools! Sorry if I came off that way. I am purely speaking of hobby, constructing some pieces that I could use in the future. I just assumed getting started up using hand tools would be cheaper than power tools and was wondering at what point I would have to upgrade to power tools. Since I am a college student with a major in Civil engineering I will be entering a work force that will have much downtime in the winter months and I am looking to pick up a hobby and I thought wood working would be one to consider.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

You are only constrained by your muscles and energy. At one time logs were felled with hand tools, then sawn with hand tools. Just takes a LOT of time and energy.

This video is worth watching. This person likes to use hand tools over power tools. Impressive work, but not many folks would have this amount of energy.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f30/outdoor-workbench-41778/

A number of threads on the site building projects like benches with hand tools. One example.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/workbench-build-unplugged-write-up-pictures-included-54721/


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

As others have noted, people have been making fine furniture long before power tools were invented. But the skills required for that take years to acquire.

For the most part, and for a beginner especially, you'd be limited to carpentry type projects that don't require a lot of accuracy. The projects you mentioned are within the realm of possibility.

I started with just the hand tools that I inherited from my father. The first power tool I bought was just a circular saw, and that made a lot more things possible (being able to cut a straight perpendicular line). One of the most useful skills I acquired, out of necessity, was planing by hand. That made it possible to glue boards edgewise, and make my first coffee table. If you're willing to put in the time, anything is possible.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Maylar- that's good advise. I am going to defiantly do some research on hand planes and sharpening and the who deal. And glad to hear that the projects that I mentioned are plausible! 

Dave Paine- Those links were really good. I think a work bench is a great first project and will be a project that will help me create many projects in the future! Thanks for the links. I have a lot to learn but one step at a time hopefully I will be turning out some projects soon.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

AaBower said:


> I am going to defiantly do some research on hand planes and sharpening and the who deal.


A bench is very useful. This is why there are so many threads on building benches.

You do not have to go far to read a lot of good information on hand plane restoration and sharpening, just take a look at the threads in the Hand Tools forum.

Also take a look in the Classifieds forrum to see if any members selling hand planes. I know BZawat has a recent thread.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Great Thanks!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Built with hand tools!!!!


Anything you can build with powertools, you can build with hand tools if you have patience.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Check out this thread. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/machinists-chest-build-56124/ This was done with mostly hand tools.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've always let the projects I'm working on determine what tools I need whether machinery or hand tools. If you let the projects pick your tools chances are you won't buy something you will never use. If you are just starting at you would spend a lot of time shopping but eventually you would be buying less and less tools.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

yeah that's what i've been picking up from people. I want to buy some simple starter tools and then just let each project decide what else I need. Time really isn't an issue for me so if I don't have a tool I can just get whatever I need in the mean time.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I started out down the power tool route, then did a 170 (not quite a 180 -- I still use a few power tools) after seeing a presentation by Paul Sellers and some videos of a few other hand tool workers. I said I use a few power tools, still: they are a corded electric drill, a drill press, a band saw, and a circular saw. I've also got a chop saw, but it's really a rough carpentry tool... I could spend a month calibrating it, and I still don't think it would cut a perfect 90 degree angle. If I were starting over I wouldn't buy the handheld drill or the circular saw, so I'm leaving them out of my math. Here's my take.

ETA: I also have a nice Rigid router, with both a fixed base and a plunge base. The fact that I forgot I owned it when I wrote this tells you how much I use it. Someday I'll probably build a router table, since there are some jobs that would be a lot easier with a router table than with hand tools, and it would make the router feel a lot quieter.

Anything you could make with power tools, you could also make with hand tools. Anything you could make with hand tools, you could also make with power tools. The question of "Can it be done?" is therefore pretty meaningless. So what's the difference? Cost, convenience, and complexity.

Cost: Hand tools are arguably cheaper. I'm pretty sure I'm less than $800 into my hand tool kit, and the only things left that I know I'll need sooner or later are a pair of router planes and some new drill and auger bits. I'm including the two power tools I anticipate using regularly in that number, by the way -- a band saw and a drill press. I'll probably buy the planes and bits new, which means I'll probably add another $300-350 to my total. If you buy all new, instead of mostly cheap and used like I have, you can still probably get a good kit for under a grand, just slightly less complete. On the other hand, a nice solid table saw can run upwards of $500 on its own, and you'll still need a router, router table, bandsaw, drill press, miter saw, and so on. I priced it out. Buying good quality new tools, or even high quality used tools, gets expensive.

Convenience: In many cases, power tools are more convenient. I have a band saw for doing long rip cuts, long curves, and resawing. I have a drill press for drilling perfectly aligned holes of any size. In other cases, hand tools are more convenient. I don't know of a way to come up with the same end-grain surface that a hand plane used with a shooting board will get. For cutting a small board to exact length, I'd rather use a carcasse saw and a bench hook than a miter saw: it's faster, more accurate, and less prone to throwing little bits of wood around the shop like buckshot. And in just about every case, the hand tool will be quieter and cleaner, which is a nice bonus.

Complexity: In my mind, this almost always goes in favor of hand tools. Complex compound miters are relatively easy with hand tools: draw the line you want to cut on, put the piece of wood in a vise, and cut it. With power tools, you frequently end up needing complex jigs to do the same job. Given the need to cut a piece to an exact length, I can measure it out on the piece, mark it, and cut. I find that a lot easier than setting up a table or miter saw. Most operations, though, aren't any less complex either way: cutting curves with a bow saw or a band saw are the same except in terms of effort. Ripping is simple with hand or power tools, it's just more work with hand tools. There's one specific place this goes entirely in favor of power tools: production line work. If I need a hundred boards cut to the same length, I'd far, FAR rather use a miter saw with a stop block than a hand saw. It's faster, it's easier, and it's simpler. No question. If I need to produce a huge run of identical molding, a router or shaper is the simpler answer by far. There's really no room for debate, it's just true.


So. What does all that mean? It means I value quiet and simple more than I value fast and physically undemanding. I like being able to listen to the radio while working, and I don't mind that woodworking makes me sweat. (I need the exercise anyway.) I also, so far, have built small one-of-a-kind things; if I wanted to make a run of ten identical dining room chairs, or anything else for that matter, I might well re-consider. You might find the value equation goes the other way. I really couldn't tell you. But I can state that anything you can do with one type (power or non-powered) of tool, you can also do with the other type. It just may take more work.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

here is the beginning of paul sellers' series on building a workbench with very rudimentary tools


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

amckenzie4 said:


> I started out down the power tool route, then did a 170 (not quite a 180 -- I still use a few power tools) after seeing a presentation by Paul Sellers and some videos of a few other hand tool workers. I said I use a few power tools, still: they are a corded electric drill, a drill press, a band saw, and a circular saw. I've also got a chop saw, but it's really a rough carpentry tool... I could spend a month calibrating it, and I still don't think it would cut a perfect 90 degree angle. If I were starting over I wouldn't buy the handheld drill or the circular saw, so I'm leaving them out of my math. Here's my take.
> 
> Anything you could make with power tools, you could also make with hand tools. Anything you could make with hand tools, you could also make with power tools. The question of "Can it be done?" is therefore pretty meaningless. So what's the difference? Cost, convenience, and complexity.
> 
> ...


very well said!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

To add to my original response ... like Andy, I have done pretty much a 170. For me, woodworking is a hobby; I do it for its therapeutic and relaxing attributes, not to make a living.

I started out all gung-ho about power tools. I bought a bunch of routers and was going to setup a high-tech shop. Then the reality of the fine dust that settles on everything and in your lungs, the noise, and the need for things like eye and ear and lung protection set in. In order to continue, I would have had to install a powerful dust collection system, and I would have needed much more space that I have available.

That was when I realized that I really didn't WANT to have to wear protective glasses, a dust mask, and earplugs in order to pursue this hobby that was supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.

But I have not gone 100% into the hand tool realm ... I still use some power tools for some things, and am actually in the process of making a panto-router. To be honest ... I am not really 100% sure what I will use it for, probably mostly mortices and tenons ... but it is such a cool jig that I just really wanted to make one.

I will not hesitate to go the the drill press for a good hole, I will pull out the table saw to rip stock, I use the router for the rabbets for the drawers I make, and still go to the miter saw when I need more than a couple of pieces the same length.

For everything else though, I am unplugged and am very happy with my hobby.

OK, full disclosure ... I have also been known to us a drill with a phillips head attachment to screw in screws.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks CC: sums it up for me. I went into wood carving 15(?) years ago. The larger pieces (12" - 60") are excellent exercise as well! I've even tried to do a couple of logs like Guiseppe Penone but too exhausted too many times.


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## Woodenhorse (May 24, 2011)

Working wood is a lot like playing music. it takes practice, discipline and imagination. You can go totally acoustic or electric or somewhere in between. Heavy metal is best on electric and folk is most often acoustic. What kind of music you play determines which instrument you use. The same holds true for woodworking. Personally, I have a mix of power and hand tools. Sometimes the time it takes to set up a precision process on a power tool takes longer than if I just grabbed a hand tool. If you are repeating the same process over and over without changing the setup then a power tool may be best. For instance, ripping a bunch of boards down to the same width is faster and easier with a power saw, but if you have to move two cars and a bunch of boxes to rip down just one then I grab a handsaw. If the power fails or it's too cold to work in the garage you'll find me at the basement workbench armed only with hand tools. I believe it's best to start with hand tools, develop those skills and when the process becomes tedious and the need is there, then invest in a power tool.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Robson Valley said:


> Thanks CC: sums it up for me. I went into wood carving 15(?) years ago. The larger pieces (12" - 60") are excellent exercise as well! I've even tried to do a couple of logs like Guiseppe Penone but too exhausted too many times.


hey roboson ... just curious ... do you carve things like animals? i have a desire to carve a wooden elephant, and was wondering if you had any tips on how to learn how to make that a reality.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

All these answers are exactly what I was looking for! thanks for the responses. How everyone summed it up made me realize that I do NOT need to mass produce anything by any means and will stick with basic fundamentals of hand tools and use power tools where necessary. like I said, I'm in no rush so even more reason to use hand tools. I also cut about 100 face cord of firewood a year and the good ol stihl 441 is loud enough for me. Than being said I am going to look for some good used hand tools!


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Also, I have been watching some of Paul Sellers' videos and I noticed people mentioning him, what are some thoughts on him. He seems to me to really know his stuff (but what do I know at this point)


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*My opinion is...*



AaBower said:


> Also, I have been watching some of Paul Sellers' videos and I noticed people mentioning him, what are some thoughts on him. He seems to me to really know his stuff (but what do I know at this point)



He's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Pun intended. :smile:


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

AaBower said:


> Also, I have been watching some of Paul Sellers' videos and I noticed people mentioning him, what are some thoughts on him. He seems to me to really know his stuff (but what do I know at this point)


My thoughts on him are mixed.

On the good side, he knows his stuff. While I've heard other sources disagree with him, it's generally in a "that's not the way I do it, but it works" sort of way. He's a good public speaker, and I like the fact that he's making an effort to teach what he knows. I've seen some of his finished furniture, and a lot of it is very nice. His book is well written, and I found a lot of it quite useful; his videos, likewise, are reasonably well produced and frequently quite useful.

On the bad side, he's opinionated, absolutist, and occasionally arrogant. He sometimes approaches things from the viewpoint of "this is the way I do it, so it's right by definition", and I dislike that. His blog, in particular, falls prey to this; he's a little more balanced in person. In his writing, especially, he's very dismissive of power tools, taking the view that if you build things with power tools you're a machinist, not a woodworker, and the tone of his writing makes it sound like he's equating "machinist" with "slime". Again, in person, he's much more balanced, and he's admitted that he has power tools for things like ripping long stock, but he still has a very strong streak of "power tools bad, hand tools good."

I think that on balance he's worth watching and listening to, but only with the caveat that you should remember his biases. The same goes for any of the other hand tool heroes: Christopher Schwartz, Adam Cherubini, Jim Tolpin, they all have their biases. So do I, and probably so do you. Just take those into account when reading their books or watching their videos or live presentations.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

As a side note, if I had to recommend three books for a new hand-tool worker to read, they would be:

1) _The New Traditional Woodworker, by Jim Tolpin. _ In some ways, I think this is the best of the threefor a beginner. He works mostly in broad strokes, without getting into the kind of detail that the other two do, at least in the first part of the book. The second part of the book is a collection of projects, all of them aimed at building tools you're going to need, like a straight-edge, winding sticks, a bench hook, and things like that. I think if you went through this book first, including building the tools he walks you through, then _Anarchist's Tool Chest_ to get further background information, then _Working Wood_ to make your first furniture projects, you'd have a very, very thorough grounding in hand tool work. I didn't do that, and I sort of regret that I didn't. I've actually started back down that path, and it's making a difference.
2) _Anarchist's Tool Chest_, by Christopher Schwartz. I (mostly) like his sense of humor, and the book has a lot of information about what tools you're likely to need, and how to find good used ones. He has a fair amount of historical information, and frequently explains WHY he says what he says, which is a bonus.

3) _Working Wood 1 & 2,_ by Paul Sellers. Again, good information about tools, including sharpening (although that section in particular is very single sided, and dismissive of people who do things differently than him), and a few good projects to get started with.


There are others, but those are the three I've found that I thought were the best.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Yeah just by watching a few videos he seemed to be a little opinionated, rightful so arguably from his standpoint. At this point I think it will only help me to watch anything I can. Like you said he seems to have the ability to convey his messages very well and that is very important for me. Regardless, I usually take everything with a grain of salt trying to just piece together everything I hear and make the best of all of it.

(I am going to look into the books you mentioned thanks for the advice)


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

AaBower said:


> yeah that's what i've been picking up from people. I want to buy some simple starter tools and then just let each project decide what else I need. Time really isn't an issue for me so if I don't have a tool I can just get whatever I need in the mean time.


Everybody has different projects that are important to them and they would have a great deal of different tools to accomplish them. It might make it easier on us to post a picture of your next project and get opinions of the tools necessary.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Okay that's a good idea. For me, "next" is going to be "first" and everybody had helped me a lot so I think I will find a work bench that I like and post that picture and see. Of if there are any suggestions, I know there are a lot of work bench threads on here but I would like one that is semi challenging and that would teach me a lot of different wood working procedures such as joniery and bracing and whatnot. For me I can't look at a project and just tell the difficulty level (to a certain degree). I will look around and try and find a design that is simple enough for a first project yet challenging enough to teach me a trick or two.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

There's a reasonably good workbench design in the Paul Sellers book that I recommended, and another in one of the Roy Underhill books... _Woodwright's Apprentice_, I think, although I'm not sure. I also have rough a rough design plan on my blog, which you can find through the link in my signature.

Bear in mind that the ideal workbench for hand tool use is likely to be a different height and configuration than the perfect workbench for power tool use, so there's some compromise involved if you want to do both.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Yeah I watched the video that you posted. That will probably be the one I go with because I have the visual of him actually going through it step by step. Now I just have to compile a list of tools I will need before I start and gather them. I will probably shop around and find some good used tools. I will check out your blog


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

I just looked at your blog. Great stuff! I really like the work bench. Is that made out of some sort of pine? that seems to be the common trend for benches? I would have guessed hardwood would be better?


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

The bench I have is made of a bunch of cheap materials. The top is one sheet of 3/4" cabinet ply (the best plywood I could buy from Home Depot), cut into quarters and laminated together, then surrounded with pine 1x4 planed down to fit. The top layer of plywood is attached with screws but no glue, so it can be replaced if necessary. The legs are Douglas Fir 4x4, bought as two 8' sections. The front to back stretchers on each side are regular 2x4, and the shelves underneath are more 3/4" ply. The tool rack is pine, a couple pieces of edge-joined 1x10 for the back, and 1x2 for the actual rack.

Hardwood would certainly be better than ply, but ply is quick, easy, and cheap. And really, what matters is that it be flat and heavy; both of the bench plans I suggested in books use pine for a top surface. Yeah, maple or beech would probably be better, but pine will work just fine, especially for your first bench.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

yeah absolutely. I bought the first book you suggested and will read it as soon as I get it in. The only reason that I asked about hardwood is because my brother and I are messing around with a CS Mill and will be producing some boards soon. I know it seems like I'm putting a lot on my plate for two hobbies but I think they go hand in hand. But being in college I spend a lot of time sitting in front of a computer researching. So it might not be a bad idea to get a feel for working with hardwood and it would essentially be free. But we just started with that so we might not get it up and running until we are both out of school for the summer. I will probably end up doing the first bench with pine and if all goes well, maybe I could get a feel for planing and working with hardwood on another bench...


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

If the hardwood is free, by all means use it.

If you don't know, though, you'll need to dry it: I haven't done it myself, but I think the common wisdom is one year of drying for each inch of thickness if you're air drying. I'm not sure what the number is if you have a kiln, but I imagine a lot less. You really want your benchtop to be at least two inches thick, so that's a long time before you're building. Though I know people have build Roubo type benches (check Google to see what they look like) with lumber that's not entirely dry, so it might work...


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Yeah I have looking at various types of lumber. But we have a kiln setup with moisture readings taken, not sure the exact numbers off the top of my head but it will speed the process up significantly. My dad has some lumber that he has had for years in stacks in our barn the boards are probably 5/8" t0 1" thick. So I could possibly grab some for the top and laminate them together.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Actually if all you need is a small workbench Home Depot sells a premade one probably cheaper than you could buy the lumber. I believe it comes unassembled.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Actually if all you need is a small workbench Home Depot sells a premade one probably cheaper than you could buy the lumber. I believe it comes unassembled.


What fun is that? Its more of a learning process for me. I just want to learn some simple concepts and techniques.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> Actually if all you need is a small workbench Home Depot sells a premade one probably cheaper than you could buy the lumber. I believe it comes unassembled.


Which bench? I haven't ever seen any there I'd want to use with hand tools... either they're not solid enough or they're edged with metal. If they actually have one with a good top, I might buy one just for that, to simplify my next build.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

i have looked at those benches. the way the legs attach, it is certain to be wobbly


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

amckenzie4 said:


> Which bench? I haven't ever seen any there I'd want to use with hand tools... either they're not solid enough or they're edged with metal. If they actually have one with a good top, I might buy one just for that, to simplify my next build.


It must have been this one. http://www.homedepot.com/s/work%20bench?NCNI-5

I didn't pay a great deal attention to it as I only use 4'x8' workbenches. The thought was to this forum with many beginers struggling to build a small work bench. The price went up quite a bit since I looked at the one in my local store. It was selling for $55.00


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

AaBower said:


> yeah that's what i've been picking up from people. I want to buy some simple starter tools and then just let each project decide what else I need. Time really isn't an issue for me so if I don't have a tool I can just get whatever I need in the mean time.


Bingo. Also remember that the skills you develop will be with you the rest of your life. Being able to say, "I made that by hand" is a true pleasure of this hobby.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> It must have been this one. http://www.homedepot.com/s/work%20bench?NCNI-5
> 
> I didn't pay a great deal attention to it as I only use 4'x8' workbenches. The thought was to this forum with many beginers struggling to build a small work bench. The price went up quite a bit since I looked at the one in my local store. It was selling for $55.00


That link just takes me to a list of all their benches... what's the new price? Is it the $70 folding one?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

amckenzie4 said:


> That link just takes me to a list of all their benches... what's the new price? Is it the $70 folding one?


The $70 one is the one I looked at and was referring to. It looks like it would be wobbly to me. Even a total novice could make something just as good or better for less.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> The $70 one is the one I looked at and was referring to. It looks like it would be wobbly to me. Even a total novice could make something just as good or better for less.



I agree. The bench I built -- which was the first large scale thing I'd built -- is far more solid. I think the total cost for the lumber was around $100, and since you'd need a vise anyway for the folding one, I'd say the wood is the fair comparison.


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## Camden (Oct 22, 2013)

*Hand tools*

At the beginning, I was not too keen on using hand tools. I liked the IDEA of it, but I knew that my capacity for precision was minimal at this point, and I wanted a machine to help me. More and more, however, I find myself using my hands for projects. My bandsaw is indispensable, but it's only got a 13 1/2" throat. Where does that leave me with long stock? With a miter box and backsaw. I like the control of hand tools. If something is going south, I can slow down or ease off. Machines are on or off. A slip on a machine can ruin stock, or worse. A slip with hand tools can as well, of course, but you are more in control. Most of my hand tools were acquired for their aesthetic. The best example is a Millers Falls breast drill: I was picking up some machinery that I was given, and the fellow asked me if I wanted anything else from his deceased father's shop. I picked up the breast drill, and knowing Millers Falls quality, took it home. The other night, I was driving some long wood screws through some very old oak, and my hand drill was bucking badly. After stripping out a couple, and blistering my hands with a screw driver, I thought "what the heck? Can't get any worse." That breast drill smoothly and efficiently drove those screws through like that oak was lard. I could not stop laughing. This is just one example of how my "decorations" have become some of the most used items in my shop. For me, all wood working is meditative, so I don't NEED to spend 6 hrs smoothing a bench top by hand. If I feel like it, I will. If not, I won't. Simple. You said it was a hobby, which is something you are supposed to enjoy. However you enjoy it most, that's the "right" way.

WCT


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> i have looked at those benches. the way the legs attach, it is certain to be wobbly


I looked at the bench today and I agree with you if it was used as directed. The legs were intended to fold up so you could put the bench in storage when not in use. A person could glue and fasten those legs on were it would make a reasonably solid bench.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

amckenzie4 said:


> That link just takes me to a list of all their benches... what's the new price? Is it the $70 folding one?


Yes it is the $70.00 one. When I first looked at it I didn't pay attention to the fact it was made for the legs to fold. There is no reason it couldn't be glued together.


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## AaBower (Jan 23, 2014)

Camden said:


> At the beginning, I was not too keen on using hand tools. I liked the IDEA of it, but I knew that my capacity for precision was minimal at this point, and I wanted a machine to help me. More and more, however, I find myself using my hands for projects. My bandsaw is indispensable, but it's only got a 13 1/2" throat. Where does that leave me with long stock? With a miter box and backsaw. I like the control of hand tools. If something is going south, I can slow down or ease off. Machines are on or off. A slip on a machine can ruin stock, or worse. A slip with hand tools can as well, of course, but you are more in control. Most of my hand tools were acquired for their aesthetic. The best example is a Millers Falls breast drill: I was picking up some machinery that I was given, and the fellow asked me if I wanted anything else from his deceased father's shop. I picked up the breast drill, and knowing Millers Falls quality, took it home. The other night, I was driving some long wood screws through some very old oak, and my hand drill was bucking badly. After stripping out a couple, and blistering my hands with a screw driver, I thought "what the heck? Can't get any worse." That breast drill smoothly and efficiently drove those screws through like that oak was lard. I could not stop laughing. This is just one example of how my "decorations" have become some of the most used items in my shop. For me, all wood working is meditative, so I don't NEED to spend 6 hrs smoothing a bench top by hand. If I feel like it, I will. If not, I won't. Simple. You said it was a hobby, which is something you are supposed to enjoy. However you enjoy it most, that's the "right" way.
> 
> WCT


That helps me a lot. I appreciate the real life example! And I agree with you, it's a hobby so why not enjoy it! Thanks!


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Once you fall in love with hand tools functioning in synchronous with modern machinery, the addiction is unreversable.

Purchase a high quality lathe, with a set of high quality turning chisels (the hand part), and you will understand. :icon_smile:


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