# another work bench question



## bdf1783 (Feb 19, 2011)

so Ive reading up in the forums on what others have done for benches and what materials to use or what preferences other had, i also bought the cristopher schartz book on workbenches. i haven't read the whole book but trying, after reading it Ive decided to use douglas fir for my top, i was gonna use 2x6, my local home depot carries them. my question is though in the description of the board it reads douglas fir green s4s, what does the word green mean pertaining to building with it. the df 2x4 all say kiln dried. this is definitely a newbie question but after all i am one.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

I think green refers to pacific coast Doug fir


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## progressiveblitz (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks for asking the question, I learned somthing new today. The following is an exerpt from wikipedia...

"the best-known is the very widespread and abundant North American species _Pseudotsuga menziesii_, a taxonomically complex species divided into two major varieties (treated as distinct species or subspecies by some botanists): coast Douglas-fir or "green Douglas-fir", on the Pacific coast; and Rocky Mountain Douglas-fir or "interior Douglas-fir", in the interior west of the continent extending as far inland as Calgary, Alberta. Some botanists divide the latter in turn into two varieties, "blue Douglas-fir" or "Colorado Douglas-fir" (var. _glauca_) in the southern Rocky Mountains, and "gray Douglas-fir" or "Fraser River Douglas-fir" (var. _caesia_) in the northern Rocky Mountains." 

hope this helps.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

Douglas fir honestly isn't your best choice for a workbench. Multiple reasons : typically it is only kiln dried to about 12%, it expands and contracts a lot, and finally it is really soft. These are basically the three biggest things you don't want in your bench. Good alternatives would be soft maple or beech.


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## jkristia (Feb 6, 2009)

After reading Christophers Schwartz benchwork book I was actually considering douglas fir too. The benches in his book are build from construction grade yellow pine, but since that is not available in my area I considered douglas fir (which is all they have at Home Depot).
The 'only' problem I can see with fir over yellow pine is (according to the tables in the book) that douglas fir weighs 30% less than yellow pine, but the stiffness and hardness (of softness if you will) is about the same.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

I would highly suggest trying to speak with some people who have benches made from Fir and some that have those with more traditional materials. What kind of work do you do? Hand planing puts a lot of stress on a bench, chopping mortices and cutting joinery bangs it up. Your vises exert a lot of stress on the top. Glue ups on it will scrape and scratch it. These are just a few of the things your bench will face. How long do you want this bench to last? A few years or the rest of your life?


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I can chime in on this one.

I built a simple (sort of) bench starting last spring out of 2x4 and 2x12: 2x4 for the structure, and 2x12 for the top. It also has 1/2" ply sides, and a single 1/2" ply shelf on the bottom.I'm currently building a second bench out of DF 4x4 and 3/4" plywood, with a few odd bits of DF 2x2 and hardwood here and there. The new bench will be a DF frame, with a plywood top and cabinet. (See the "Heirloom workbench" plans from ShopNotes a few issues ago for an idea of what I hope it will look like...).

Here are my thoughts:

1) My pine bench is ugly, but if I weren't afraid of heights I'd be perfectly willing to jump up and down on it. It's about 90"x30"x39", weighs several hundred pounds (based on the amount of 2x4,*it should be close to 300 pounds -- I don't have a scale that big, though!), and suits me perfectly as to size. I don't have all the vises and dogholes done yet, so it's not as useful as it could be, but it's getting there. It's been through a full summer and half a winter with no warping. That may be due to the construction -- almost all the 2x4 is doubled, and joints are connected with TimberLok screws. The thing is solid. Working with pine is easy, because it's soft. That said, the top is also soft, and would be easily damaged: I put a piece of tempered 1/8" hardboard on top, and I'll replace it when it gets too scarred. Until then, I have a top I don't care about, and glue has been easy to clean off. My first bench (given to my by my father) is over 35 years old -- he bought it used before I was born, and he has no idea how old it was then -- and is made of pine 2x4 and 2x6. It's still in good shape, but I wanted something less wobbly. I see no reason why my pine bench shouldn't last at least 50 years, with reasonable care. I may have to replace the top eventually, but it was cheap, and the frame may last forever.

2) Starting the process of my new bench (for hand-tool work only, and it will live inside, where it's warm enough to work in the winter), I can say that DF is harder to work with. It splinters more, and it doesn't seem to cut quite as cleanly. It looks a lot nicer, though, and it feels a little heavier to me. I'm told it's denser, which would make it heavier, and also more resistant to damage. That said, I'm not using it for the top. The top will be four layers of 3/4" ply: the top layer will be replaceable, in case I damage it badly. Total calculated weight (based on paired 2x4 legs, not the DF 4x4 I ended up with) was between 150 and 175 pounds, not counting whatever I put in the drawers and cabinet. If I do my joinery correctly -- this one's getting mortise and tenon connections between the stretchers and legs -- I see no reason it shouldn't last a respectable portion of forever.

Based on my experiences with the two benches, I wouldn't use DF for the top. I also wouldn't use pine again. Plywood, properly supported, will stay flatter and be cheaper to replace. I personally can't see spending the money on good hardwood for a benchtop, but that's just me. Certainly a lot of people disagree, and they have a lot of tradition on their side, and it looks a lot nicer!


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## toasterburn (Jan 3, 2012)

For what it's worth, here is my bench made completely of pine 2x4's, including the top. I think it's beautiful, and I don't worry one bit when I'm hammering away on something.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

toasterburn said:


> For what it's worth, here is my bench made completely of pine 2x4's, including the top. I think it's beautiful, and I don't worry one bit when I'm hammering away on something.


Looks like kenbo's shop. :laughing:


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## bdf1783 (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you for all the in put and clarifying my concerns with green df, i think I might still go with the df.


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## bdf1783 (Feb 19, 2011)

Any other opinions or ideas are greatly appreciated


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## jkristia (Feb 6, 2009)

please post pictures of your progress


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Before You take the plunge I'd suggest checking Craig's list in case you can get a great deal on some maple or beech. You might be surprised what you can find.


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## bdf1783 (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks for all your help, I'm trying to figure out the board feet if I was to use hardwood. I want the thickness to be 8/4 witch would be 2 inches correct? My design is going to be 28 inches wide and 96 inches long is my board feet correct. For the top I would need 18.66 board feet. I would also ad in about 20% for mishaps.
Thanks for your help also what is the most common thickness used for bench tops


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

37.333 board feet for a 2" top 28" wide and 96" long. Two inches should be fine for most things. If you go by Christopher Schwartz he says at least 3" for use of dogs etc. That's a more traditional top (French bench). Be sure to consider the extra you will need for jointing, planing, trimming, legs...


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Also depends on your undercarriage. You will want to support 2" underneath across 96".


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## bdf1783 (Feb 19, 2011)

The lumber I am trying to figure the price is 8/4 thickness and withs are 10 inch to 12 inch I was planning on getting the 10 inch and ripping it down the middle giving me a 5 inch thick top. With glueing the boards together vertically. This is how most make their benches correct?


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## bdf1783 (Feb 19, 2011)

Shop Dad said:


> Also depends on your undercarriage. You will want to support 2" underneath across 96".


I was planning on leaving a little over hang on each side about 12 inches


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Sorry, I must have mis-read. I thought you were going for a 2" top to the bench. 5"? Now that's more like the Roubo bench! Won't need any support rails under that. Sturdy frame, absolutely. :thumbsup:

2x10 lumber is probably more like 9.25" in actual width. By the time you joint it and rip it you will be around 4". A jointer and planer are highly recommended for this project. You will want the faces that you are gluing to be absolutely flat. A good hand plane could be used as well.

Kind of sounds like you are going for his $175 workbench. :smile:


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