# Educate me about Chisels



## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

I have almost no experience with chisels. I have an old what i think is a Stanley butt chisel with a translucent yellow plastic handle. I had it sharpened a few years ago but now the edge is dull and nicked up. 
I am going to be doing some large lap joints in some 2x6 cedar and was planing to use a router but would like to most of the wood removal with a chisel to avoid the noise and mess of a router. I will use the router for the final cut. My research so far turned up the following:

A 1 inch wide chisel can vary in price from $11.40 (Nerax) to $70 (Lie Nielsen)

You can't use a brand new chisel out of the box, you have spend hours getting the bottom flat and then putting a sharp edge on the bevel. Doing this isn't trivial and you can buy a honing guide to hold the chisel at the proper angle, but many people seem to prefer doing it freehand.

You don't simply use a hammer or rubber mallet, a special chisel mallet is needed and people seem to prefer the round ones. There are also ones with a rather huge wood block as the striking surface that look like the first hammer ever invented by man.

To sharpen the chisel you use something called a waterstone starting with lower grit number and working up to a higher grit. You can spend a small fortune on waterstones far exceeding the price of a chisel.

This what I propose to buy for this:

Mallet:

Amazon.com: Wood Is Good WD205 Mallet, 18-Ounce: Home Improvement

Chisel (1-1/4 inch big enough to remove a lot of wood but not too big?)

http://thebestthings.com/newtools/ashley_iles_bench.htm

Waterstone:

King 47506 1000/6000 Combination Grit Waterstone - Amazon.com

So I will be spending about $110 just to be able to use a chisel. Any feedback or suggestions appreciated. I don't mind spending the money if it a good investment. I guess I can also use the waterstone on my kitchen knives.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

I use waterstones and a jig (veritas) but there are multiple methods that work. Quite a few threads on this subject if you search. Plus U-tube has a lot of video's on sharpening. I would start out with the inexpensive chisels and then decide. make a mallet is an option- helps to hone your skills.


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## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

mike1950 said:


> I use waterstones and a jig (veritas) but there are multiple methods that work. Quite a few threads on this subject if you search. Plus U-tube has a lot of video's on sharpening. I would start out with the inexpensive chisels and then decide. make a mallet is an option- helps to hone your skills.


By inexpensive do you mean Narex?


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Narex chisel steel is really good = hard, not difficult to sharpen and hone and holds the edge longer than for most of my Pfeil wood carving tools.

May I suggest a book? Find a copy of "The Complete Guide To Sharpening" by Leonard Lee (G.O.M. of Lee Valley). The first 6 chapters, 75 pages, should help a lot.

Absolutely the most important key point in the sharpening process is to learn to hold exactly the same bevel angle in every step of the process. I have some old Marples wood working chisels for rough outs.
They all get done up, evey year or two, at 30 degrees. 300 grit oil stone, 800 grit paper and maybe 1500 grit paper. I have a 30 x 5 x 1" strip offcut from a stone countertop business = flat enough for my purposes, which include 9 different crooked wood carving knives..

The round carver's mallet doesn't slip, you don't have to watch every strike. Polyurethane heads won't bash up a chisel handle. A 12 oz mallet (Shop Fox) doesn't have the momentum to drive a 1" chisel like a 30 oz lead core mallet (Wood-Is-Good) does.
As you go, ask me any time PM


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## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

Robson Valley said:


> Narex chisel steel is really good = hard, not difficult to sharpen and hone and holds the edge longer than for most of my Pfeil wood carving tools.
> 
> May I suggest a book? Find a copy of "The Complete Guide To Sharpening" by Leonard Lee (G.O.M. of Lee Valley). The first 6 chapters, 75 pages, should help a lot.
> 
> ...


So is the 18 or 20oz Woodisgood too light?, I need the 30oz?

That book looks like it would help a lot.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Just re-read your first post. Working in cedar, the 20 oz would be just fine.

I have the book sitting beside me, hence my detailed suggestion. 
Like Mike1950 says, there are many sharpening methods which work.
The real deal is to pick one, any one, and learn it.

I was a BIG FAN of waterstones, still use them a lot. But for Haida style crooked knife blades, water stones are nearly useless. Sandpaper on a flat surface is a fresh new flat stone every time, yes? Gluing it down is a waste of resources. Masking tape works OK.


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## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

Guess i will save some money and order the Narex chisel.
I think it will be fine for what I am doing and starting out.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I bought a pair of 1/2" Narex skews from LV, mostly for the price.
My but they did come up "carving sharp" in a hurry! 

But, 25 degrees is a big angle to push wood open by hand in carving a wide and deep V-groove. So, I began with oil stones and scrubbed them back to 20 degrees, like most carving gouges. After finishing on a 4K waterstone, I honed them with chrome green.
They were so good that within a week, I ordered a second pair. No regrets at all.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I have several different Narex chisels and would recommend them as well.

I also have that exact water stone and I use it for everything. It doesn't take hours to flatten the back of a chisel unless you try to flatten it with the 6000x water stone.

When I have needed to flatten the backs of chisels/plane irons I started with 220x paper on a piece of glass (use anything that is good and flat) and then proceeded up to the water stone to remove most of the scratches from the sandpaper. If you have some or want to get some - you can speed up the process by using some 400x or 600x after the 220x and before the 1000x. 

You could also save a lot of money by just making your own mallet. Here is a thread from an earlier mallet swap that many members participated in: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/mallet-swap-part-deux-pictures-47414/ 

You can see there are many different types/styles of mallets and a mallet doesn't have to be fancy. For a long time I just used a piece of oak 2x. I just smoothed the edges with some sandpaper to make it easier to grip.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

jnbrown said:


> I had it sharpened a few years ago but now the edge is dull and nicked up.


The first thing you need to do is learn how to sharpen chisels yourself .
The whole process , from grinding to honing.


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## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

Is there any consensus for a beginner if a honing guide should be used or would be helpful?
Most of the videos I watch of pros doing it are using a guide instead of freehand.
I didn't realize using a chisel was going to be so involved, maybe i will just do it all with the router after all, but I know chisels are really useful.
I am saving a lot of money by building this myself so spending $35 on a mallet doesn't bother me in the least, i have other things to do with my time than making tools.
Woodworking isn't really a hobby for me I just need to learn enough to get by.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

As a beginner, I think a honing guide is important - especially if you are only occasionally going to be sharpening chisels, etc.

IMO the best honing guide out there is the Veritas MkII guide from Lee Valley. 

If you are only going to sharpen one or two chisels occasionally, you might consider the much cheaper side clamping guides that just about everybody sells. I used one for years before I bought the MkII and it did a very satisfactory job on everything except my narrowest chisels (1/8" and 1/4").


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## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

trc65 said:


> As a beginner, I think a honing guide is important - especially if you are only occasionally going to be sharpening chisels, etc.
> 
> IMO the best honing guide out there is the Veritas MkII guide from Lee Valley.
> 
> If you are only going to sharpen one or two chisels occasionally, you might consider the much cheaper side clamping guides that just about everybody sells. I used one for years before I bought the MkII and it did a very satisfactory job on everything except my narrowest chisels (1/8" and 1/4").


Thanks for the tip on the guide. I can't justify spending the money on the Veritas if the cheaper one will do.
But I think I just contradicted myself by saying I could spend money on a mallet, oh well.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

While I don't have any Narex chisels I don't see very much difference in any brand. I have some Harbor Freight chisels that hold an edge as long as some of the more expensive carving chisels I have. I like to use the waterstones to sharpen them.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

At this stage of your journey into woodwork , don't buy a mallet or new chisels . 
Put that money towards buying basic sharpening equipment .
Then use that to sharpen the tools you already have .
Next , get your hands on a lump of wood , and carve yourself a mallet . 

Something like this will do 











After that , if you feel the need , you can put your newly learnt skill into carving a better one .

Keep in mind that the fanciest , most expensive tools in the world does not make anyone a better manual worker than they already are .
Practice does that


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

SN: I see a difference in the time line for keeping a tool "carving sharp" for hand carving. It's really easy to tell when I have to push "just a little harder" to get the same cut. And, I might make hundreds or more of the same cuts in a session. Narex steel is good.
MJ: I have two of those log mallets! One for log busting in the mountains and one for clean-up with a froe when I get home.
JNBROWN: I have drawn "angle cards" for every tool angle that I need. I lock my elbows to my sides and match the tool shank to the angle on the card. Pull strokes only. At the end of each stroke, STOP. Lift the tool straight up and back to the top, down again, another pull stroke.
= = = 
I'll never buy a sharpening jig because I may need to hone a wide variety of tools from 28 degrees to as little as 6 degrees. Plus, a jig is totally useless for crooked knives.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Robson Valley said:


> MJ: I have two of those log mallets! One for log busting in the mountains and one for clean-up with a froe when I get home.


yep , they're great eh , one for every occasion .

I have turned carving mallets for friends , some of whom are amongst the top of their craft in the world .
They still prefer the ones that they knock up out of scrap .

Mine get a bit of a knock now and again , out of politeness I reckon :laughing:


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## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

Manuka Jock said:


> At this stage of your journey into woodwork , don't buy a mallet or new chisels .
> Put that money towards buying basic sharpening equipment .
> Then use that to sharpen the tools you already have .
> Next , get your hands on a lump of wood , and carve yourself a mallet .
> ...


Maybe I should go find a large tree and carve my 37" x 55" gate out of that instead of using 2x6s :laughing:


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

jnbrown said:


> Maybe I should go find a large tree and carve my 37" x 55" gate out of that instead of using 2x6s :laughing:


Please yourself , the result will be the same :yes:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jnbrown said:


> I have almost no experience with chisels. I have an old what i think is a Stanley butt chisel with a translucent yellow plastic handle. I had it sharpened a few years ago but now the edge is dull and nicked up.
> I am going to be doing some large lap joints in some 2x6 cedar and was planing to use a router but would like to most of the wood removal with a chisel to avoid the noise and mess of a router. I will use the router for the final cut. My research so far turned up the following:
> 
> A 1 inch wide chisel can vary in price from $11.40 (Nerax) to $70 (Lie Nielsen)
> ...





Steve Neul said:


> While I don't have any Narex chisels I don't see very much difference in any brand. I have some Harbor Freight chisels that hold an edge as long as some of the more expensive carving chisels I have. I like to use the waterstones to sharpen them.


There is quite a bit if difference in chisels. Steve's statement only amounts to not using chisels much.


Narex are pretty good but I find them a bit brittle. It's a trade off - chromium to reduce rusting also reduces the durability of the steel. 

The best, and by best I mean bang for buck, out there is, I believe, vintage chisels. Old iron. Pretty much anything with a socket will be a decent chisel so long as no one has previously destroyed the temper with imprudent grinding - still better than a HF chisel though. HF chisels are about as useful and and soft as a cheap egg turner. And for the record, yes I tried them and I tried properly hardening and tempering them but no improvement - it's low carbon steel.

If you are willing to do some grinding and have the means I would suggest vintage, otherwise Narex is not a bad second choice. If you plan to only use / sharpen them very rarely (a shame) you might consider abrasive paper for sharpening as a cheaper alternative to stones.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> There is quite a bit if difference in chisels. Steve's statement only amounts to not using chisels much.
> 
> 
> Narex are pretty good but I find them a bit brittle. It's a trade off - chromium to reduce rusting also reduces the durability of the steel.
> ...


I'm not exactly a beginner with chisels.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Holy cow Steve! That thar's a thing of beauty!!!!!

Now back you your regularly scheduled programming....


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

PLEASE! Let us not forget that the OP wants to make some large lap joints in cedar. Period. OK? He has a couple of old chisels that need a tune up. It's silly to suggest that he really needs vintage steel for this, or that steel corrosion will catch up to him before the job is done or that $200 will buy the sharpening 
system to do what 4 x 1/2 sheets of paper will do ($2.00?).
K.I.S.S.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Robson Valley said:


> PLEASE! Let us not forget that the OP wants to make some large lap joints in cedar. Period. OK? He has a couple of old chisels that need a tune up. It's silly to suggest that he really needs vintage steel for this, or that steel corrosion will catch up to him before the job is done or that $200 will buy the sharpening
> system to do what 4 x 1/2 sheets of paper will do ($2.00?).
> K.I.S.S.


This is an issue of perspectives. You're looking at this issue from the perspective of someone who wants to use a chisel to cut half laps in cedar, one time, and then let the chisels accumulate dust on a bench somewhere. Firemedic Is looking at the issue from the perspective of what are the best chisels to buy for my money, and what will serve me as my best daily user over time. Both perspectives offer valid points, the original poster will have to choose what best suits his needs at the present time.
And Steve, you can't post a picture like that without some "along-the-way" pics. Just sayin'...

Cheap chisels will cut just fine, but won't hold an edge well & you'll be sharpening them much more often.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> I'm not exactly a beginner with chisels.


You can show me anything you like - but if it quacks like a duck...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

BZawat said:


> And Steve, you can't post a picture like that without some "along-the-way" pics. Just sayin'...





firemedic said:


> You can show me anything you like - but if it quacks like a duck...



And...it was all done with a 1" Harbor Freight chisel.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


















.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

BZawat said:


> This is an issue of perspectives. You're looking at this issue from the perspective of someone who wants to use a chisel to cut half laps in cedar, one time, and then let the chisels accumulate dust on a bench somewhere. Firemedic Is looking at the issue from the perspective of what are the best chisels to buy for my money, and what will serve me as my best daily user over time. Both perspectives offer valid points, the original poster will have to choose what best suits his needs at the present time.
> And Steve, you can't post a picture like that without some "along-the-way" pics. Just sayin'...
> 
> Cheap chisels will cut just fine, but won't hold an edge well & you'll be sharpening them much more often.


Well it was suggested I didn't work with hand chisels and I thought the picture would clear that up. The table I built about 30 years ago and didn't take any pictures as I was building it.

Back to the subject, I've just never been concerned with brand of chisel. Most I bought before there was an internet and really couldn't research brand. About a third of the chisels I have were upon the suggestion of the woodcarver I took classes from. His favorite was Frank Mittermeyer. Over the years I picked up many at flea markets and different stores. Actually I think the one that stays sharp the longest is one I made from a jointer knife. The rest I can't tell the difference. Amoung the brands I have are Buck Bros, Cherries, Stanley, Henry Taylor, Great Neck, Hirsch, Harbor Freight and Swiss Made as well as a few that are not proud enough to put their mark on.


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## NathanB (Apr 11, 2013)

Robson Valley said:


> PLEASE! Let us not forget that the OP wants to make some large lap joints in cedar. Period. OK? He has a couple of old chisels that need a tune up. It's silly to suggest that he really needs vintage steel for this, or that steel corrosion will catch up to him before the job is done or that $200 will buy the sharpening
> system to do what 4 x 1/2 sheets of paper will do ($2.00?).
> K.I.S.S.


This about right. Like I said before wood working is not a hobby for me not because it doesn't interest me, I just don't have the time and don't want to spend a ton of money on tools and have to store them somewhere. Right now I just need to build three gates for my house and I am doing it because I just couldn't get past spending $1700 on pre built ones.
Being an engineer I like to do things myself and learn how to do it right and well. Many times I think too hard about it because that is what my job is.
What makes sense to me thanks to the great feedback here is to buy a Narex chisel and a waterstone and learn how to sharpen it. Its not going to break the bank. I feel that once I become more proficient at using it there will be other oppotunities to do so. I always thought of woodworking as something you do with power tools such as a table saw and router and at first the thought of cutting things with hand tools seemed medeival and too much of a learning curve but now it is intriguing.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I think it's often forgot on here that people do things for different reasons. I'm one that works for a finished project....if hand tools are the easiest way to do it, then ill use them, if a powertool (which is usually the case for me) is easier, then that's the route ill go. 

Some people enjoy the task of planing a board by hand, if it takes me more than 30 seconds to run it through the planer I become impatient. I can't see a situation where I'd want to do all that by hand. However I've found hand tools to be easier for final fitment than power tools in many cases....


Just because old vintage irons and the time it takes to get them ready for use is right for one person, doesn't mean it's right for everyone...and cheap chisels for a one time use are just as appropriate for someone else.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> Well it was suggested I didn't work with hand chisels and I thought the picture would clear that up. The table I built about 30 years ago and didn't take any pictures as I was building it.


That is an interesting piece that you say you made. I'm just curious that with all the carving threads you didn't post that table as an example. I do have some interest in that project.

What wood did you use?

I'm just guessing you didn't usa a HF chisel (but if you say so) was it? If not what tools did you use?

How long did it take you?

What did you use for patterns/images?

What's the finish?


















.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> That is an interesting piece that you say you made. I'm just curious that with all the carving threads you didn't post that table as an example. I do have some interest in that project.
> 
> What wood did you use?
> 
> ...


I think most of the carving threads I've been involved with were more about relief carving than something like that. 

The table was made out of Honduras mahogany. When I first proposed building it I planned to make it out of walnut and the teacher, Ludwig Kieninger said I would never finish it out of walnut and in hind site I think he was right. I worked on the table on and off for three years as it was. 

I have harbor freight chisels I'm currently using but there was none used on that table. At the time the flat chisels I had were Stanley I think. Even that German woodcarver I was taking classes from liked the idea of using the carpenters chisels with the plastic handles. 

The idea for the table came from this picture I have in a book on antique furniture.

It has a nitrocellulose lacquer finish on it. It has been refinished once since the picture was taken. At the time I made it I just put a clear finish on it without trying to fix any of the color problems with the wood. Most of the wood had a really deep red color to it and the figure on the right has the face and right hand of lighter wood as well as some of the stretchers. I have colored in the light wood now so it is more consistent color.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> The table I built about 30 years ago...



Unbelievable


















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