# Cutting square hole in 6" lumber



## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Hey all,

I'm looking for the best way to make a 4x4 hole in 6" thick cedar. I'm trying to replicate the table you see in the picture below and trying to figure out the best way to make the square hole that the 4x4 is going through. Is the best way to just drill out several holes and clean up somehow? Would a 6" jigsaw blade work okay? I never have good luck with straight cuts using a jigsaw. 

I have the following tool I could use for straight drill holes:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JCIMEA

Would a reciprocating saw work better than a jigsaw? 

I also have an oscillating multitool I was thinking I would use to help with the corners.

Or am I approaching this completely wrong? Is there an easy way to do this?

I don't have a drill press or band saw or scroll saw or probably any other professional tool that would help me out 

Thanks
Jon


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## sanchez (Feb 18, 2010)

My opinion is to drill first close to the edges of the hole, then chisel it to get it cleaned up.

A six inch jigsaw blade only has five inches of cutting length.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

sanchez said:


> My opinion is to drill first close to the edges of the hole, then chisel it to get it cleaned up.
> 
> A six inch jigsaw blade only has five inches of cutting length.


Thanks! Maybe a 7-inch jigsaw blade to help with this than? And than a chisel to clean it up?


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## jeremymcon (Oct 16, 2014)

I can't quite tell from the picture of the table, but is the side that you'd need to cut the water in a solid glued-up panel? If so, and you'll be gluing up some thick cedar pieces, an easy way to get the square hole is to choose a center board that is the width of the hole you'll need to make. Then cut the center board in two pieces, removing enough that when you glue it up the panel has a hole in it the shape you need. Hope that makes sense.

You could also notch a board or two before the glue up with your jig saw, a band saw, or whatever and accomplish the same thing.


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## jeremymcon (Oct 16, 2014)

Otherwise, I believe the usual choice for mortises that size is a chain mortiser - essentially a small chain saw in a jig that keeps it vertical.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*allow me to clarify ...*

What I think your are saying is "create" the hole by staggering the two 4" wide pieces above and below the hole, rather than trying to drill or cut it out of the center large panel. This would be the "easiest" way. 

If you have to cut or drill the hole then you really need a large mortising chisel, about 1" wide. These are heavy duty chisels made to be struck with a mallet. You would drill all around the hole close to the line 4" square. Then pare away the remaining wood right to the line using the chisel.

Long jigsaw blades are not easliy controlled and they tend to flap around at the end where you need more precise control. A SawZall is more powerful and the blades are thicker and longer, but have the same control issue. 

You can drill out the 4 corner holes with a 3/4" drill which would allow a SawZall blade to fit and start your cut. Then you can round off your timber to fit in the rounder corners.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The wood for the leg isn't one piece of wood. Why not just glue up the wood for the leg leaving the hole in it when you glue it up. Then there would be no hole to have to cut.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

jeremymcon said:


> I can't quite tell from the picture of the table, but is the side that you'd need to cut the water in a solid glued-up panel? If so, and you'll be gluing up some thick cedar pieces, an easy way to get the square hole is to choose a center board that is the width of the hole you'll need to make. Then cut the center board in two pieces, removing enough that when you glue it up the panel has a hole in it the shape you need. Hope that makes sense.
> 
> You could also notch a board or two before the glue up with your jig saw, a band saw, or whatever and accomplish the same thing.


I made the sides by joining 3 6x6 pieces of cedar. I had a couple 10' 6x6 pieces of cedar left over from my deck build. So I'm using them to make this table. I thought about just making a faux 4x4 piece on the outside and gluing it to make it look like the 4x4 goes all the way through. But I'm not sure if I want to go that route yet. It would be nice to have it actually go through.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Steve Neul said:


> The wood for the leg isn't one piece of wood. Why not just glue up the wood for the leg leaving the hole in it when you glue it up. Then there would be no hole to have to cut.


Well, the leg is 3 6x6 pieces of cedar joined together. So I still have to cut a hole in one of the pieces of cedar.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> What I think your are saying is "create" the hole by staggering the two 4" wide pieces above and below the hole, rather than trying to drill or cut it out of the center large panel. This would be the "easiest" way.
> 
> If you have to cut or drill the hole then you really need a large mortising chisel, about 1" wide. These are heavy duty chisels made to be struck with a mallet. You would drill all around the hole close to the line 4" square. Then pare away the remaining wood right to the line using the chisel.
> 
> ...


Yes, simulating the 4x4 going through the leg would definitely be easiest. Maybe that's the route I should go.

Do you think I could use this tool to at least make the outside of each side of the hole look nice? And then drill and chisel out the inside of the hole?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-JobMax-4-Amp-Multi-Tool-with-Tool-Free-Head-R28602/206824272


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## jeremymcon (Oct 16, 2014)

If you simulate the through tenon, how are you going to actually attach the stretcher? With such a heavy heavy table I think you should do the real joint. If you have a mechanical jointer the easiest way to accomplish the hole is probably still to rip the sides apart and rejoin them with the hole already in them.

But any of the options you've suggested would probably be fine. I'd probably hog out the majority of the waste with a drill and saw, the clean up sides with a chisel.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not the tenon, then mortise*



jeremymcon said:


> If you *simulate the* *through tenon,* how are you going to actually attach the stretcher? With such a heavy heavy table I think you should do the real joint. If you have a mechanical jointer the easiest way to accomplish the hole is probably still to rip the sides apart and rejoin them with the hole already in them.
> 
> But any of the options you've suggested would probably be fine. I'd probably hog out the majority of the waste with a drill and saw, the clean up sides with a chisel.



It's the mortise you can create by leaving a gap with a board above and below. The tenon is the same regardless of how you construct the mortise, whether by chiseling or simulating it. However, the stretcher must be assembled in the mortises before the legs are installed on the top because you can not get it in afterwards. The top goes on last.

You could make the mortise by ripping the side plate/foot on the mortise line vertically. Then remove the waste using a bandsaw or handsaw to cut the horizontals. Then chisel the surfaces smooth. Reinstall the other part of the side plate/foot and you will save some handwork.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

If you've already glued up the 6X6 pieces you will need to cut the hole. More on that below. 
Steve is saying, if you haven't glued up the 6X6 pieces, you can cut the hole prior to glue up. 
This would be straight cuts (easier) rather than having to make a square hole which is harder. 

If you must make the hole, use your drilling jig to drill a series of straight holes to outline your square hole. Drill near the line, but leave a 1/16" of more from the line. This can all be squared and smoothed with a sharp chisel. Also, the cross brace which becomes the Tenon for the square hole can be trimmed as needed for a snug fit. 
The two keys that hold the cross bar in the leg will be two more M & T's to cut. They will need to be on the money for a tight secure fit.


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## Mr Matthew (Nov 22, 2016)

Plunge router and chisels. Attack from both sides if you're doing a true tennon. You could use a template and bearing to keep the outside surfaces clean (a square). I think my longest straight plunge bit will go about 2 3/4". I swap out the manufacturers base plate, with an oversized piece of plexiglass so the router doesn't fall into the hole.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

jeremymcon said:


> If you simulate the through tenon, how are you going to actually attach the stretcher? With such a heavy heavy table I think you should do the real joint. If you have a mechanical jointer the easiest way to accomplish the hole is probably still to rip the sides apart and rejoin them with the hole already in them.
> 
> But any of the options you've suggested would probably be fine. I'd probably hog out the majority of the waste with a drill and saw, the clean up sides with a chisel.


Yep. I'll do a real hole. It's definitely a large and heavy table so I'll need the support.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> It's the mortise you can create by leaving a gap with a board above and below. The tenon is the same regardless of how you construct the mortise, whether by chiseling or simulating it. However, the stretcher must be assembled in the mortises before the legs are installed on the top because you can not get it in afterwards. The top goes on last.


Yep, my thoughts exactly. I actually won't even start working on the top until the base is completely done and assembled so I can determine how large I want to make the top.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Mr Matthew said:


> Plunge router and chisels. Attack from both sides if you're doing a true tennon. You could use a template and bearing to keep the outside surfaces clean (a square). I think my longest straight plunge bit will go about 2 3/4". I swap out the manufacturers base plate, with an oversized piece of plexiglass so the router doesn't fall into the hole.


Hmm. I have a plunge router but didn't think it would be long enough to do this. I might have to investigate this option if I attack from both sides. The actual depth of the leg is 5.5" so it's doable.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Hey, have at it but .....*



Jon Hayden said:


> Yep. I'll do a real hole. It's definitely a large and heavy table so I'll need the support.


I wouldn't do it and here's why. First off, it's a lot of work. Secondly, the end panel is a glue up of other thick pieces. The glue is as strong as the wood itself IF properly done, and you had better do it properly! So, why not make a 4 piece panel? 

Determine where your 4" hole will be and allow for a 4" wide "gap" between the 2 end pieces. Locate the hole position vertically on one end piece and glue the shorter pieces on the top and bottom of the hole. Then glue your other end piece on, and it will form a perfect 4" square hole for your tenon.

You can change any of the dimensions to suite any size tenon you use.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> I wouldn't do it and here's why. First off, it's a lot of work. Secondly, the end panel is a glue up of other thick pieces. The glue is as strong as the wood itself IF properly done, and you had better do it properly! So, why not make a 4 piece panel?
> 
> Determine where your 4" hole will be and allow for a 4" wide "gap" between the 2 end pieces. Locate the hole position vertically on one end piece and glue the shorter pieces on the top and bottom of the hole. Then glue your other end piece on, and it will form a perfect 4" square hole for your tenon.
> 
> You can change any of the dimensions to suite any size tenon you use.


My only issue with making a 4 piece panel is trying to run the leg through my table saw. My blade isn't big enough to cut it in half in one pass. I would have to flip it over and run it through the other side. And I never have luck with it always being a perfect 90° cut so trying to get 4 pieces cut perfectly could be a problem. But I agree that gluing and clamping can be stronger than the wood itself.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

4 days and still talking about cutting two holes. 
This table build is going to take a very long time.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

My comment is not on how, but what you are doing, from your posts it is not clear.

Simply passing a 4x4 through a hole is not going to add a lot of stability to the table, you need to make tenons on each end so there is a shoulder where they pass through the legs.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

FrankC said:


> My comment is not on how, but what you are doing, from your posts it is not clear.
> 
> Simply passing a 4x4 through a hole is not going to add a lot of stability to the table, you need to make tenons on each end so there is a shoulder where they pass through the legs.


It will be one long tenon that passes through both legs. And then I'll put in a couple lag bolts from underneath at an angle, through the tenon and into the leg.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Toolman50 said:


> 4 days and still talking about cutting two holes.
> This table build is going to take a very long time.


I'm a weekend woodworker. Nothing will be done until this weekend. It doesn't hurt to have a conversation about it before I start.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Frank is correct ...*



FrankC said:


> My comment is not on how, but what you are doing, from your posts it is not clear.
> 
> Simply passing a 4x4 through a hole is not going to add a lot of stability to the table, you need to make tenons on each end so there is a shoulder where they pass through the legs.





Jon Hayden said:


> It will be one long tenon that passes through both legs. And then I'll put in a couple lag bolts from underneath at an angle, through the tenon and into the leg.


Blasphemy! Make a true mortise and tenon, no screws or lags please! Either make your 4X4 larger by adding on pieces top and bottom... no hand work involved. OR make your mortise opening smaller and use shoulders on your 4 x 4 stretcher.... some hand work involved

The shoulders are what gives it strength from side to side racking. Eventually the lags will work loose without shoulders. I would like to see a wedged tenon for this project.... more hand work:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Jon Hayden said:


> I'm a weekend woodworker. Nothing will be done until this weekend. It doesn't hurt to have a conversation about it before I start.


The more conversations the better, sometimes some of us tend to forget this is a discussion group.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Jon Hayden said:


> It will be one long tenon that passes through both legs. And then I'll put in a couple lag bolts from underneath at an angle, through the tenon and into the leg.


Jon,
See Woodnthings picture above. If you cut your brace slightly for the Tenon and leave a shoulder, you will not need to put a screw in the Tenon. The key can be removed and the table can be disassembled quickly if needed. 
A shoulder of only 3/8" all around is all that will be needed. 
A tap on the key tightens the brace to the trestle. 
It will be nice.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Toolman50 said:


> Jon,
> See Woodnthings picture above. If you cut your brace slightly for the Tenon and leave a shoulder, you will not need to put a screw in the Tenon. The key can be removed and the table can be disassembled quickly if needed.
> A shoulder of only 3/8" all around is all that will be needed.
> A tap on the key tightens the brace to the trestle.
> It will be nice.


You guys are seriously overestimating my skills haha. If I were to do the tenon with a shoulder and wedge on the other side, wouldn't the tenon/mortise have to be a really snug fit? If not, wouldn't it wobble a little? Or does the wedge make it snug? An exact mortise/tenon fit might be difficult. However, there's no reason I can't at least try it I guess.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

I like the look of this:


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

BTW, we spent 4 days talking about how to make a square mortise for the tenon/stretcher. Now, how do I make mortise for the wedge?  Isn't one side of the mortise at a slight angle? I'm guessing I have to chisel that out. Luckily, the tenon that holds the mortise for the wedge will probably only be 3" in depth.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Jon Hayden said:


> You guys are seriously overestimating my skills haha. If I were to do the tenon with a shoulder and wedge on the other side, wouldn't the tenon/mortise have to be a really snug fit? If not, wouldn't it wobble a little? Or does the wedge make it snug? An exact mortise/tenon fit might be difficult. However, there's no reason I can't at least try it I guess.


We all started out with no more skills than you have. Everyone has to start from the beginning. You're taking your time, gathering information and getting ideas to go forward and that's the right way to do it. 
I have a picture of a Harvest table I built out of Red Oak under my pictures. 
The picture Woodnthings posted is another very good example. 
You will Hardly have any movement end to end when the key is tapped tight. 
Your design is a good one. It will be a heavy piece you will have for a lifetime and then some.


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## terryh (Nov 11, 2013)

Add my vote for a through tenon with shoulders and a tapered wedge. I opted for that on the dining table I built and I was amazed at what a solid joint it gives. Once those wedges are tapped home, it is rock solid.

There are various ways to make the mortises on both the pedestal and the stretcher. On my table, the pedestal components are glued up from two pieces joined at the vertical center line. Therefore I was able to rough out the mortises on the table saw with a dado blade before glue up. After glue up, I cleaned them up with a template and router. The tapered mortises on the stretchers were roughed out with a jigsaw, and cleaned up with a template and router. The tapered face was done with an angled guide block and a chisel.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Practice makes perfect ....*



Jon Hayden said:


> You guys are seriously overestimating my skills haha. If I were to do the tenon with a shoulder and wedge on the other side, wouldn't the tenon/mortise have to be a really snug fit? If not, wouldn't it wobble a little? Or does the wedge make it snug? An exact mortise/tenon fit might be difficult. *However, there's no reason I can't at least try it I guess.*


For the wedged tenon, use an angled block to support the chisel and keep it at the same angle. There are videos on YouTube for this. Make a sample piece with a shouldered tenon, a mortise for it in a large plank, and then make an angled mortise like the one shown in the photo that you like. The width need only be 3/4" or so, but the depth will go all the way through of course. It will a good practice exercise for your limited skills. :smile3:

When the wedge is tapped in, it will snug everything up, no wobbles!


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Toolman50 said:


> We all started out with no more skills than you have. Everyone has to start from the beginning. You're taking your time, gathering information and getting ideas to go forward and that's the right way to do it.
> I have a picture of a Harvest table I built out of Red Oak under my pictures.
> The picture Woodnthings posted is another very good example.
> You will Hardly have any movement end to end when the key is tapped tight.
> Your design is a good one. It will be a heavy piece you will have for a lifetime and then some.


Nice table! Looks awesome!


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

terryh said:


> Add my vote for a through tenon with shoulders and a tapered wedge. I opted for that on the dining table I built and I was amazed at what a solid joint it gives. Once those wedges are tapped home, it is rock solid.
> 
> There are various ways to make the mortises on both the pedestal and the stretcher. On my table, the pedestal components are glued up from two pieces joined at the vertical center line. Therefore I was able to rough out the mortises on the table saw with a dado blade before glue up. After glue up, I cleaned them up with a template and router. The tapered mortises on the stretchers were roughed out with a jigsaw, and cleaned up with a template and router. The tapered face was done with an angled guide block and a chisel.


Looks great. I'll do some practicing on some scrap to see how I do


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> For the wedged tenon, use an angled block to support the chisel and keep it at the same angle. There are videos on YouTube for this. Make a sample piece with a shouldered tenon, a mortise for it in a large plank, and then make an angled mortise like the one shown in the photo that you like. The width need only be 3/4" or so, but the depth will go all the way through of course. It will a good practice exercise for your limited skills. :smile3:
> 
> When the wedge is tapped in, it will snug everything up, no wobbles!


Thanks for the info. I'll search youtube too. That's a great idea about an angled block for the chisel.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

The structure is done. Distressing it now. Next up is creating the hole for the wedge.

Do I need any other support for the top? My inspiration picture in the opening post doesn't show an apron. So I'm not sure how I will attach the top to the base. I was thinking pocket hole screws from the base into the top. But maybe I want some kind of screwless attachment?


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Yay! Very good so far. 
It's not a wedge, it's a key. You will need no other support if you cut the keys right. 
The top attaches to the top of the trestle (How?). Many choices and should be discussed. 
Each trestle will be attach d at the top and at the trestle brace. 
The key should be made of hardwood. The hole for the key can be as narrow as 3/4", but the length of your key will be approximately 8-9" because you need 2" above the 4" post and 3" below the post. 
Shape a design a decorative key. It's a major part of the project. 
Only one side of the key will have a slight taper. The othe side is straight. 
Take your time don't rush it. Looking good.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Toolman50 said:


> Yay! Very good so far.
> It's not a wedge, it's a key. You will need no other support if you cut the keys right.
> The top attaches to the top of the trestle (How?). Many choices and should be discussed.
> Each trestle will be attach d at the top and at the trestle brace.
> ...


Yep, using walnut for the key. Thanks!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Notice where the angle is*

The side of the wedge against the frame is straght or vertical. The side of the mortise on the outer most is the angled portion. That is important to have it work correctly and look right also.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Notice where the angle is*

The side of the wedge/key against the frame is straight or vertical. The side of the mortise on the outer most end is the angled portion. That is important to have it work correctly and look right also.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> The side of the wedge/key against the frame is straight or vertical. The side of the mortise on the outer most end is the angled portion. That is important to have it work correctly and look right also.


Thanks! Exactly what I was thinking. And I was thinking that the mortise should go slightly in to the width of the pedestal too, right? That way I can pound the key to make it real tight.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not sure what that means but ...*

The key should be a slip fit. The wedging action does the work by applying force in the width, not the thickness. You don't want a "tight" fit in the width. A few taps will draw the tenon's shoulders against the inside of the end panel and that's all you need.

Nice work, so far ..... :smile3: Keep the width of the key in scale with the rest of the pieces, not too thin. At least 1/2" to 3/4".


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> The key should be a slip fit. The wedging action does the work by applying force in the width, not the thickness. You don't want a "tight" fit in the width. A few taps will draw the tenon's shoulders against the inside of the end panel and that's all you need.
> 
> Nice work, so far ..... :smile3: Keep the width of the key in scale with the rest of the pieces, not too thin. At least 1/2" to 3/4".


Great, thanks. I was going to make the key from 1x2 piece of walnut and it should be a nice contrast too.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Okay, making progress. Top is all glued together. Just a lot of sanding to do still. Need to trim the key a little more so it can go further down. Any suggestions on how I attach the top to the pedestals?


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Thanks for all the help everyone. My final piece:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Nice!*

That oughta' last about 300 years.....:smile3:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

That looks great, sculpted edges are a nice touch.


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

FrankC said:


> That looks great, sculpted edges are a nice touch.


Thanks! I can't afford a real "live edge" piece of wood


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> That oughta' last about 300 years.....:smile3:


I hope so. Maybe the grandkids will fight over it some day lol.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Your table turned out really nice and just in time for Christmas. 
You should be very proud of your results. 
Now, what's next?


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Toolman50 said:


> Your table turned out really nice and just in time for Christmas.
> You should be very proud of your results.
> Now, what's next?



Thanks! One of my next projects is a corner china cabinet that will be next to this table.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Jon Hayden said:


> Thanks! One of my next projects is a corner china cabinet that will be next to this table.


That will be a great project. I built 3 corner cabinets when I was still in my 20's. 
One for a friend and two for me which I still have today. (Shown in my pictures). 
A corner cabinet is nice in a small room because it has a smaller footprint.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd attach the table top to the uprights with gravity.
Couple of dowel keys sticking up 1/2" so it doesn't slide around.
The top won't float away.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

Two thoughts: Is that wood dry enough for furniture or is going to shrink a lot? Deck wood cedar is usually quite wet. Bum the use of some one's meter to check it before you end up unhappy because it split. Are you going to have the stretcher notched so it is trapped and actually holds the legs in place? If so the moisture problem will result in a sloppy fit. Even if you saw can only cut half way, just joint the edges after sawing. (hand plane if no jointer) Glue the two side parts of the leg to the lower center part. When dry do a nice fit by shaving the stretcher unit just right for gluing. Same with the upper center part. Glue & clamp for a perfect fit. Probably a far better result than trying to make a hole.
Just curious, what was your original plan?


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## Jon Hayden (Aug 11, 2016)

Larry Schweitzer said:


> Two thoughts: Is that wood dry enough for furniture or is going to shrink a lot? Deck wood cedar is usually quite wet. Bum the use of some one's meter to check it before you end up unhappy because it split. Are you going to have the stretcher notched so it is trapped and actually holds the legs in place? If so the moisture problem will result in a sloppy fit. Even if you saw can only cut half way, just joint the edges after sawing. (hand plane if no jointer) Glue the two side parts of the leg to the lower center part. When dry do a nice fit by shaving the stretcher unit just right for gluing. Same with the upper center part. Glue & clamp for a perfect fit. Probably a far better result than trying to make a hole.
> Just curious, what was your original plan?


Project is done. No going back now.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

Table top to legs attachment should allow for some movement. Since your design has the grain orientation the same in both parts that won't be a lot of movement. A groove near the top of the leg with an L shaped key screwed to the bottom of the table is easy and allows movement due to expansion/contraction with changes in moisture.


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