# Help id'ing stones



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Below are several stones I picks up at a garage sale. I'd rather use these than the sandpaper I have been using but don't know the relative grits. Not sure if identification is conducive to a forum but the pics are below. One of the bow. Ones is double sided - both brown, one obviously coarser than the other. Thanks for any help.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Well I cant tell wether these are water stones or oil stones but the one on the left is a double sided stone the lighter side being the finer side.

One tip put them in the dish washer when the wife isn't looking and they will come out looking completely different, and if they are oil stones don't ever use oil on them again.

Use washing up liquid it doesn't block the stone up the way oil does. Billy


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I didn't know that. You say to use dish soap on oil stones? That's interesing. The one on the right is really pretty looking stone. I think they are natural oil stones. You might just have to take some steel or a scrap chisel and a loupe and rough up the chisel a bit on some sandpaper and then work each stone and see how the surface looks under the loupe. I can never tell oil stones either. I have a few small ones from sales and such. I have no idea what is what. I need to take the time and figure it out someday too.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Never got a chance to thank you for your input. So thanks. Haven't had an opportunity to try out the tips yet, but will be doing so very shortly.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I agree with Billy De on how to clean and maintain the stones. I was taught by a Bavarian woodcarver to never use oil on sharpening stones and I have the same stones I started out with 30 years ago and they still work as good as new. I store mine in a container of water so any metal impacting the stone is rusted away. 

Its hard to tell from the picture but you should be able to tell the transition of texture of the stones by handling them so the roughest stone would be coarse and the smoothest would be the extra fine. 

When you use sharpening stones think of it as a process of polishing a edge on your tools. Fresh from the grinder you would use the coarse stone (think second from left) wet with water, working both sides of the chisel . After you get the scoring from the grinder off you would use a medium stone (I believe pictured on the left) If you look close at the edge of the chisel you will see a thin sliver of metal on the edge of it. You should work the chisel against the medium stone until the sliver is gone. The chisel should be sharp at this point and to continue would be to polish a edge that will last longer. I believe the stone third from left is a fine stone and would be the next step. Its hard to say how long to work the chisel on this stone. It comes down to more instinct than anything. Probably 5 minutes would do. Finally the chisel would be done on the extra fine stone pictured at right. You would work the chisel on this stone until it kind of has a chrome look on the edge of it. Finally I have a piece of leather stretched over a piece of 1x4 that I have loaded down with a jewelers rouge. I strop the chisel on the leather wet with water to a polished edge. The chisel is then razor sharp.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

An easy test would be to put a drop of water on the stone. If it soaks in, it's a water stone. If it just sits on top it's an oil stone. Oil stones are harder and more dense than water stones, last longer than water stones, cut a bit slower, and work best with a light oil...like 3-IN-One, or 10W oil (sewing machine oil).

Water stones are softer than oil stones, and oil should not be used on them. They cut faster than an oil stone, but don't last nearly as long. If the stone is older than about 20-25 years it's likely an oil stone.









 







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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

The one on the left looks like a combination India stone. Man made, dark brown side is coarse, light brown side is fine but not real fine, maybe equivalent to 600 grit. The one on the right looks like a Wa****a stone which is a natural stone, noviculite. The large brown stone may be another India due to the brown appearance, it could also be a Crystalon that is normally gray in color. The other looks like a Wa****a but could be an Arkansas. When clean, a Wa****a is often pink and white, Arkansas is usually white and extra fine Arkansas is often black. If I remember correctly, they are all noviculite but in different density. Being natural, there are variations in color. 

The wide variety of stones we have today were not available back in the 60's and 70's and before. The stones you show would have been typical for carpenters and woodworkers of the time. I still have all of mine from the era but don't use them anymore. They are all oil stones. They can cup quite easily but flattening them is very difficult. Don't drop them!


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

So I had the chance to use dmt stones recently to sharpen some plane blades and found it so much easier than struggling with the sandpaper. Probably because I don't have a good system for that. But it got me thinking about these stones which I feel a bit more comfortable with now thanks to you folks I have an idea about. But I took a look at their surfaces and they are far far from flat. So I wondering if there's an economical way of flattening these or if I should spend m money on new? Thanks.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

On some of the softer stones I have used a carbide masonary blade on a table saw and milled the stone flat. It makes an awful amount of dust but it worked. If you had access to a wet tile saw large enough to cut through it, that would be better.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I wouldn't use any machining on a stone. A diamond or ceramic lapping plate is specially designed to flatten, or lap, sharpening stones.









 







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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I wouldn't use any machining on a stone. A diamond or ceramic lapping plate is specially designed to flatten, or lap, sharpening stones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I were to get a diamond or ceramic plate couldn't I just use that or a couple of them to sharpen?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

railaw said:


> If I were to get a diamond or ceramic plate couldn't I just use that or a couple of them to sharpen?


They would be too coarse IMO.









 







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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I wouldn't use any machining on a stone. A diamond or ceramic lapping plate is specially designed to flatten, or lap, sharpening stones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why not?


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Billy De said:


> One tip put them in the dish washer when the wife isn't looking and they will come out looking completely different, and if they are oil stones don't ever use oil on them Billy


Laughing! You are a sly devil aren't you? 

Jeff

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education"

Mark Twain


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

jharris2 said:


> Laughing! You are a sly devil aren't you?
> 
> Jeff
> 
> ...


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Jay it gets worse than that some times Iàm just down right disgusting on site I only carry oil stones and if I find that a chisel deeds a lick I will just spit on the stone and put a new edge on the chisel.

That`s something I learnt from the old Journey men, still works.


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## rrbell (Oct 22, 2012)

Billy De said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> Jay it gets worse than that some times Iàm just down right disgusting on site I only carry oil stones and if I find that a chisel deeds a lick I will just spit on the stone and put a new edge on the chisel.
> 
> That`s something I learnt from the old Journey men, still works.


Just don't let your wife catch you putting them in the dishwasher!


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

So I've been waiting for a time to get my stones in the dishwasher- no opportunity yet. But a fellow in the adult Ed woodworking shop gave me a metal plate with 150 grit diamond affixed to it that he made at his work. I was thinking of trying to use this as a lapping plate to flatten the stones (will post a picture next time I can). Is this going to work?


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Last night I did, in fact, get a chance to put those stones in the dishwasher. one of them didn't hold up well and was chipped. A couple of the others looked much better but there was some compound or something on one that didn't really come off.

Anyway, I took them out again and took a look and decided that they just aren't worth my time anymore. I don't want to spend & on a lapping plate and then go through all the effort to get them flat, THEN sharpen my tools. I have a 150 diamond plate mentioned before, which I used recently and works nicely; I think I'll add a much finer grit combination stone (as long as its not too pricey) and call it a day. Eventually I may need a lapping plate but it'll take a while.


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## Snaglpuss (Nov 28, 2012)

The purple and beige stone on the left looks like a razor hone.

These things are great for putting a final edge on a blade. (use water)
Yours looks dished out but this can easily be fixed.

Get a coarse oil stone and rub the razor hone on top of it while running it under water to wash off the slurry. It might take a little bit but it should resurface .
I did several using a new cheap chinese two sided oil stone.
I like to use the beige side.

These things are really worth the effort to clean up.
Great find!


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Woodcraft is having a sale on a flattening plate (whatever it's called). In the description they only talk about water stones. In addition to the razor hone, I think it was determined that I have oil stones. I also have a steel plate with 250 grit diamond adhered to it given to me by a guy in a class I took. He said it was his day job. 

Would the woodcraft item be sufficient to flatten the home and oil stones? 
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005775/17629/norton-flattening-stone-with-case.aspx

Also, there is a little lip of adhered diamond on the plate so I can't flatten chisel backs on it. Is there a way to work down that edge?


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## Snaglpuss (Nov 28, 2012)

The woodcraft thing would probably be fine for the razor hone but I don't think it will do much for the oil stones if they are man made.

Just a suggestion- why not leave your oil stones as is if they are man made, use them if you can or not. Get yourself a brand new combination oil stone something like this-
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/NOIB8/Norton-India-Stone-8-Inch-Fine-Coarse-Combo

Use the corse side on this thing under running water and flatten your razor hone. Then you can use the new combo oil stone for general sharpening after the grinder and finish your blades off on your newly flattened razor hone.

You would be out about the same amount of money but in the end you would be ahead in general utility.

You could also keep your eye out for a cheap $4.00 Chinese combo oil stone al la Harbor Freight and just use that to keep the razor hone in good shape. Sooner or later you will scratch or gouge it with the edge of a chisel or plane blade.


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## Snaglpuss (Nov 28, 2012)

Snapped a shot of some razor hones I've found over the years.

I never set out to collect them they just followed me home from flea markets, and garage and estate sales.

The ones on the left are ready to go, the three on the right need some work.
The long one is probably too dished out to be worth the effort to fix.
Notice the tiny one on the left with the hinged wooden cover


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

For those having poor success using oil on oil stones try one of the many cutting oils on the market rather than lube oil. I like the aresol foaming cutting fluid for oil stones as well as drilling steel. Also a few drops of Buck honing oil on Arkansas / Wash - i -ta stones works wonders.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

*cleaned up the razor hone*

I cleaned up the razor hone and it works pretty well. I just rubbed it on 80 grit sandpaper on a piece of mdf and it flattened out in a hurry. I still need to get an intermediate stone and then will be able to go to town sharpening those new chisels I got at auction.


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