# Extreme Beginner Shelving Question



## MammothMan (Apr 8, 2015)

I think what I'm asking is a form of joining, if not feel free to redirect me appropriately. I am an absolute novice when it comes to woodworking, this is my first real project and I am excited to learn more!

I am trying to replicate this:









I have all the pieces I need cut and I am attempting to put the shelves in first and work my way out. As it stands I have wood-glued the ends and clamped them into the two vertical framing pieces, however, they do not seem to be holding, I waited 24 hours and when I release the clamps they just fall apart. Should I be using screws/nails in addition to the glue?

Of note, I stained the wood first, I think that may have been out of order.

Thank you all in advance for helping me out with this, I'm hoping to become more knowledgeable, but don't have a whole lot of resources beyond the internet!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

So the ends of the shelf are called end grain. It's exposed when you cut across a board. End grain glues poorly and has very little strength. Something that helped me get into woodworking was using a kreg jig. It was a great way to get started and make something.


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## new2woodwrk (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm certainly no pro and can't wait to see what the experts write - but it would seem to me the glue isn't holding because of the stain.

I believe we glue and fasten and clamp first, then stain/paint then assemble?


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## MammothMan (Apr 8, 2015)

I've seen Kreg Jigs when I did a google search on this shelf earlier today, that might be an option for this project. Would going in with nails from the outside directly through to the end grain be an option as well?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

It would, but it wouldn't look as clean or be as strong.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Looks like nails are the answer, just like in the picture. The stain has reduced the ability of the glue to do its job.


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

I'll add it up for you MammothMan - glue doesn't perform very well on end grain and yes - it doesn't work on pre-stained wood. So you have 2 things here. Nails are an option and you might experiment with brand name LocTite pl glue. That glue may hold your project together. I used it on prestained wood and it's still holding. 

If your're going to take up woodworking, let me suggest you get a table saw and learn dado joinery. It is an easy basic joint and it can be achieved with a router as well. Welcome to the world of woodworking.


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## MammothMan (Apr 8, 2015)

Everyone here has been a huge help! I can't wait to get home and try out some of these suggestions. I've got some projects into the summer that I'm excited to try and I'm glad this community is here to help. Thanks a bunch for the suggestions!


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

This project looks like it was nailed together. You can always use screws in place of nails. 
If the wood is extremely hard, it will be best to drill a pilot hole slightly smaller in diameter than the nail or screw. 
Good luck.


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

MamouthMan - if you do try that "LocTite" pl glue, be aware that it expands as it dries so keep an eye on it. It will bond finished surfaces. They use it in construction - another brand name is "Liquid Nails"


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

You usually build the carcase (frame) first then fit the shelves in dados or rabbets.

Dados are grooves running across the grain.
Rabbets are grooves running along an edge.

I think it would be good to get a couple books and/or watch a couple videos.
Frank Klausz has a pretty good joinery video.

Good luck.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

Mammothman, that's a fine starter project. Meaty enough to get some experience, simple enough to be able to complete and it lets you show off your new found skills.

What tools do you have? Knowing that will help us guide you on this project.

But, for this project, you don't need to cut dados or get fancy with glue. I would just use nails and not bother with glue at all. While that may not seem satisfying, you can set the nails (drive the heads below the surface of the wood) and fill the holes with wood putty. I'd focus a lot on finishing - sanding, sealing, staining and top coating. Finishing skills are often overlooked by beginners but they are as important as joinery. With nails, you can mostly finish the pieces separately - staining in corners can be tricky.

As for going forward, I would do some viewing of various project videos and pick a progression of projects of increasing sophistication. Each of which adds one or maybe two new skills.


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