# Sealing with shellac before pouring epoxy resin bar top?



## ponch37300

I had a thread a few weeks ago about a bar top made out of pine that I am going to pour epoxy on. Some suggested to seal with Zinser seal coat before pouring the epoxy on. The epoxy I'm using is glaze coat by famowood, https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=famowood glaze coat. I picked up the supplies and got to reading the directions and have a few more questions.

First, it says to only use water based products under the epoxy. I bought some minwax stain to put on the pine before doing the epoxy. It says clean up with mineral spirits so that is oil base correct? Is that going to be an issue? Is there a water based stain I should get instead?

Second, the zinser seal coat recommended in the other thread by some people is a shellac. Is shellac water based or oil based? I was hoping to use the sealer to make double sure any little gaps that might be in the joints are 100% sealed so the epoxy doesn't drip through it. I know the zinser sealer won't completely seal gaps but thought if there was a little here or there it would help. The instructions say any gap at all and the epoxy will run right through it.

Just trying to make sure there are no issues when I pour the epoxy since it's pretty expensive.


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## phoenixbound

don't use the minwax if the epoxy says only water based products can go under it. shellac is alcohol based. it is not considered oil based, or water other than alcohol has some water in it. hope that helps. Dewaxed shellac can go under nearly any finish. I always keep a can of dewaxed shellac in the shop. It's more useful than waxed, as there are many times you can only use the dewaxed to prevent bonding issues with the topcoats.


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## ponch37300

Ok so take the stain back. They do make a water based stain right?

For the zinser seal coat it is a wax free shellac. So that should be good for sealing it before the epoxy.


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## phoenixbound

yes, there are all sorts of water based stains. Yes, Seal Coat is Zinsers' dewaxed shellac. great stuff and has excellent shelf life for a shellac.

I thin it for wiping on, and often for brushing as well.


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## 2lim

My experience with 2 part epoxy, is that it is best to seal it with a thin coat of the epoxy itself. I mix up just enough to spread it on thin, and let it set overnight. I knock down any really high spots, or areas that have bubbled. I find that once that is down, there are far fewer issues with bubbling, or seepage.

Simon


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## epicfail48

Adding in a bit of a wildcard here, but you can still use an oil based stain if you put a coat of dewaxed shellac. Dewaxed shellac is a pretty universal sealer, anything adheres to it, including epoxy. 

Shellac is neither oil- nor water-based. Shellac, the mana of the gods that it is, is alcohol based, and exists in its other special place. Shellac is awesome


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## Big Dave

I use oil based stain and seal it with Zinsser all the time. I also will brush epoxy over trouble spots to keep from having trouble with the flood coat. As you can see in the picture I have spots all over this counter that I've put a thin coat on to seal any cracks or porous areas that will bleed air as well as a coat on the edge to help with build since it runs off. After it sets up I come back the next day and do the flood coat. A 6" plastic putty knife helps with spreading the epoxy thin and flattening it out.


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## ponch37300

epicfail48 said:


> Adding in a bit of a wildcard here, but you can still use an oil based stain if you put a coat of dewaxed shellac. Dewaxed shellac is a pretty universal sealer, anything adheres to it, including epoxy.
> 
> Shellac is neither oil- nor water-based. Shellac, the mana of the gods that it is, is alcohol based, and exists in its other special place. Shellac is awesome


Thank you for that explanation. Finishing isn't my strong point and is pretty confusing to me.

So I'll use my oil base stain and then seal coat everything with zinser sealcoat. 

Dave, that counter is amazing. Great work.


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## phoenixbound

ponch37300 said:


> Thank you for that explanation. Finishing isn't my strong point and is pretty confusing to me.
> 
> So I'll use my oil base stain and then seal coat everything with zinser sealcoat.
> 
> Dave, that counter is amazing. Great work.


Get Bob Flexners book on finishing.


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## ponch37300

phoenixbound said:


> Get Bob Flexners book on finishing.


I've got Jeff Jewitt's book on finishing which gets pretty good reviews. My issue is I don't do this enough to really venture from my comfort zone. I always get nervous venturing away from a simple stain and poly finish so don't experiment a lot. Hate to ruin a project by trying something new and it not working out. There's just so many different finishes and products that it's hard to learn and remember what plays well with others and what doesn't.


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## epicfail48

ponch37300 said:


> I've got Jeff Jewitt's book on finishing which gets pretty good reviews. My issue is I don't do this enough to really venture from my comfort zone. I always get nervous venturing away from a simple stain and poly finish so don't experiment a lot. Hate to ruin a project by trying something new and it not working out. There's just so many different finishes and products that it's hard to learn and remember what plays well with others and what doesn't.


Nothing at all wrong with that. Ive one got 2 finishes I regularly use, shellac and wipe on poly. I know how both work pretty well, I know how to treat both to get the results I like, so ive never found reason to experiment. I'm sure theres better finishes to use for certain projects, but mine work fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it after all


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## phoenixbound

ponch37300 said:


> I've got Jeff Jewitt's book on finishing which gets pretty good reviews. My issue is I don't do this enough to really venture from my comfort zone. I always get nervous venturing away from a simple stain and poly finish so don't experiment a lot. Hate to ruin a project by trying something new and it not working out. There's just so many different finishes and products that it's hard to learn and remember what plays well with others and what doesn't.


 we are all different. to me, poly is my least favorite finish, bar none. takes too long to dry, witness lines if trying to do repairs, noxious. dust collects on surface while drying due to length of time it takes.

My very favorite finish for cabinets and furniture(i have several, but I'll call this one my very favorite) is Enduro Waterborne finishes. I use their urethanes. Very hard finish if you add a tiny bit of Crosslinker--like when spraying horizontal furniture surfaces, for max resistance to chemicals and abrasion.

For little projects, I keep my HVLP in it's drawer, and use dead-simple Deft spray cans--I keep Sanding Sealer, Gloss, Satin, and Semi-Gloss in stock.


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## Smith Brother

It's my opinion, and understand it's MY OPINION, epoxy in my mind gives a, cheap shine.

May be it's just me, but that's how I see epoxy on tops.

Dale in Indy


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## ponch37300

smithbrother said:


> It's my opinion, and understand it's MY OPINION, epoxy in my mind gives a, cheap shine.
> 
> May be it's just me, but that's how I see epoxy on tops.
> 
> Dale in Indy


Out of curiosity why do you say that? It's anything but cheap compared to a lot of other finishes, for about 65 sq ft of bar it's going to be about 150 bucks just for the epoxy. I personally think it looks decent and is a durable finish for bar tops. What would you use on a bar top? Not disagreeing with you but just trying to broaden my knowledge and see what others might use.


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## epicfail48

ponch37300 said:


> Out of curiosity why do you say that? It's anything but cheap compared to a lot of other finishes, for about 65 sq ft of bar it's going to be about 150 bucks just for the epoxy. I personally think it looks decent and is a durable finish for bar tops. What would you use on a bar top? Not disagreeing with you but just trying to broaden my knowledge and see what others might use.


I can't speak for dale but a common complaint ive seen is that epoxy tends to give a very plasticky look to whatever its on. Tends to hide the look of the wood


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## Big Dave

It's all personal preference. There are those that like it and those that don't. Those that don't usually think it looks cheap. I use it all the time but that's what my customers ask for. If they asked for another option I would probably steer them towards either conversion varnish or Waterlox.

I have one customer who didn't want the epoxy and he researched and decided he wanted Waterlox. I put the first few coats on for him then had to go home. His job was 800 miles away from home. He finished it up and a couple years later he had me back to work on another project and I was able to see how the Waterlox held up. I was impressed. I didn't get any real good pictures of it but have attached one below for you.


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## cps

epicfail48 said:


> I can't speak for dale but a common complaint ive seen is that epoxy tends to give a very plasticky look to whatever its on. Tends to hide the look of the wood


I agree it hides the texture of wood, but it does allow the figure to show.


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## Smith Brother

Oh, I agree it isn't an inexpensive finish. I PERSONALLY think it has a shine that I, and I stress 'I' feel doesn't belong in a kitchen, but since it's for a bar, well maybe I don't feel as strongly about it. I would say the shine is cheap looking to GLOSSY, IMO. Like another poster said, it has a plastic look.

I'm am NOT picking on you, it's YOUR top, do what YOU like.

Best wishes,

Dale in Indy


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## cps

If you want the durability and don't like the plastic glossy look, you can rub it down to a satin finish. I did this as experiment, and works fairly well. It does reduce the clarity of the wood, however.


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## alawson

Big Dave,what is the wood in your photo. I have to make a dining room table for a gal that seats six without leaves. She also wants it bar stool height. She wants it out of some type on pine. I have made dining tables out of curly maple and oak but don't know much about pine. Anyone else feel free to add your commits. I also like the Enduro but sometimes use a glaze before the finish to even out the final look.


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## Big Dave

alawson said:


> Big Dave,what is the wood in your photo. I have to make a dining room table for a gal that seats six without leaves. She also wants it bar stool height. She wants it out of some type on pine. I have made dining tables out of curly maple and oak but don't know much about pine. Anyone else feel free to add your commits. I also like the Enduro but sometimes use a glaze before the finish to even out the final look.


 Eastern White Pine.


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## Tina

Smith Brother said:


> It's my opinion, and understand it's MY OPINION, epoxy in my mind gives a, cheap shine.
> 
> May be it's just me, but that's how I see epoxy on tops.
> 
> Dale in Indy


You know epoxy finishes can be sanded to have a matte finish also.


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