# Radial arm saw restoration



## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hey guys as you know I recently had a lengthy battle with an old rusted RAS which is now won. So here I am to give u guys some updates on how the resto is going. 

Here is a pic after some prep work prior to paint.











Here is some pics post paint. Did a aluminum look to the legs/table and used red on smaller accent pieces.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Wow, that's going to look so nice that you won't want to get sawdust on it.


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## vinnypatternmaker (Mar 27, 2011)

Hi!
Man, you can say that again :yes:!
Love the color choices!
Please keep postin' :thumbsup:!
Best,
Marena and Vinny


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

That will look great! Can't wait to see how it turns out. I have the same legs and did the same break-down, clean-up, repaint, but in Rustoleum black. I like your color choices. :thumbsup:


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

This one looks exciting. It makes me want to paint all of my tools!


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

Good start Andrew. Like the others can't wait to see your progress.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Just wondering what brand saw is it your rebuilding. What you have accomplished so far looks real good.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Fastback said:


> Just wondering what brand saw is it your rebuilding. What you have accomplished so far looks real good.


In an earlier post Andrew mentioned a circa 1969 Craftsman 12 in RAS.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/new-old-tool-ras-44651/


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Again thanks and yes I remember now.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Looks good Andrew!

How did you get the rust out of the inside of that column base?

Bill


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

dodgeboy77 said:


> Looks good Andrew!
> 
> How did you get the rust out of the inside of that column base?
> 
> Bill


Well it was no easy feat bill but in the end I actually built a little soaking tub outta 2x4s, cardboard, and contractors trash bags. I then placed the column base in about 2 gallons of evapo rust I had. It didn't cover completely so after about 8 hours I would go in and rotate it until it was all gone. Then, with the help of my my much smaller hand and armed wife, we scrubbed out the inside with water and a Brillo type pad. Then I used a heat gun to make sure no water was being left in crevices and there ya have it. 

All clean! :thumbs up:

Andrew


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Fastback said:


> Just wondering what brand saw is it your rebuilding. What you have accomplished so far looks real good.


To be exact it is a craftsman 12" model #113.29500 just in case I didn't give the model in my last post.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Nice work in the rust. I had to build a small trough like that for a long hand plane. You might want to spray some WD-40 in there for further protection.


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## Fishinbo (Jul 23, 2012)

You are definitely making it an awesome power tool !!! 
I agree with the choice of colors.
It 's excellent. 



____________________________

www.sawblade.com


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Shop Dad said:


> Nice work in the rust. I had to build a small trough like that for a long hand plane. You might want to spray some WD-40 in there for further protection.


Yeah I'm going to hit any moving/snug fitting parts with a spray lube during re-assembly.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well boys hit a snag and it is a potential tool killer. Reassembly was going along smooth until I installed the elevation shaft, this is the part that is basically a rod feeding from the front of the table into the bottom of the column assembly with a gear on the end of it. It meshes with the vertical shaft's gear to produce the up and down motion of the saw.

Well here is the bugger, the small ribs at the end of the elevation shaft that keep the gear in place and keep it from spinning freely are basically gone. So when you crank the handle it will OCCASIONALLY catch and move the column up/down but mostly it just slips and the shaft spins while the gear just sits there.

So I have one idea short of finding a replacement part which could be very difficult. Would it be possible to permanently attach the gear to the elevation shaft. Not sure the best way on this; welding, epoxy, idk. what do you guys think?

O if any of you wanna see the exact part im talking about it is part number 63116 on craftsman radial arm saw model 113.29500.

Andrew


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Drill a hole all the way through and use a roll pin. That's howdy elevator shaft is kept on my table saw. Welding it should be fine too though.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A photo would be better*

Lacking a photo why not pin the gear to the shaft with a small roll pin by drilling through both the gear and the shaft. If the gear has a shoulder then that where I would locate the pin, if not you'll have to use a shortened pin so it wouldn't clash with the gear teeth and they will still mesh properly. 
As another thought, you can always pick up another RAS for about $50 -$75 on CL for parts. I have several and that's what I did, but a 12" may be a bit more expensive. A lot of parts are interchangable on the older saws regardless of the stated size.

I see I was too late. Great minds think alike Ryan! I believe the gear is nylon, so no welding allowed.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks guys I like the roll pin idea, gonna see if I can use a buddy's drill press to git r done. I'll keep u posted


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## J Thomas (Aug 14, 2012)

Make sure you drill both parts at the same time!! This will assure the holes line up.
A slight misalignment could pooch the whole deal. Then you'd be forced to weld it.
Best luck with it
..Jon..


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

When you assemble if the pin is not a real tight fit use some super glue to hold it in place. I say this because you may not have a large selection of bits, number and letter. If worst comes to worst you can use a 6 of 8 penny nail cut to length, just find a drill bit to match.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Some pics of the problem piece and assembly sorry if they aren't great, they are from my phone































When in the above position the gear shouldn't spin but does so yeah. I like the roll pin plan just thought I'd get u guys some pics, I know u like pics. 

Andrew


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Andrew,

It looks like you have some gear tooth damage. This may not be a problem if you can get good tooth engagement with the other gear; I don't know.

What Fastback suggested about using a piece of a nail for a pin (i.e. a solid pin) instead of a roll pin I think is a good idea. You could use a center punch to expand the head of the pin of each side to hold it in place. I'm guessing the gears aren't hardened so hopefully they can be drilled without much difficulty. Rockwell RAS's use plastic gears for this function so they don't have to be super heavy duty if things are lubed and working smoothly. Of course, Rockwell RAS's break a lot of these gears.

You may be able to find someone on this site or on the OWWM site that has some used replacement parts for your saw, or as someone suggested, check CL for a parts saw. I had a 12" Craftsman RAS that I bought for $25, took the motor and junked the rest (it wasn't in very good shape). Deals like that are around if you're patient. 

Bill


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Yeah I took that pic to show the worst of the gear damage, the gears worked okay until this gear would push back onto the shaft an off the other gear so I think if it was held in place it would work until I could get a replacement.

Andrew


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

If the parts you need are the same as in the CM ras's that are on the recall list, you might find someone who has the parts left after sending in the motor/carriage.
I think all mine have been taken to the scrap yard, but I will check my stash.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hey guy also a head up to you all, you can buy most sizes of these bevel gears from McMaster Carr online. They have tons of diff sizes and in nylon, steel, and high pressure steel. 

A steel one for my saw costs $25 I might just buy a new one and get my buddy to press it on and pin it lol!

Andrew


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Replacement of the gear would be a good idea. I would guess that there is some play of run out in the existing gear because of the wear.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Snagged a new old bevel gear from my 10" craftsman RAS donor and pressed it on in place of the old one, put a flat on the shaft and tapped the bevel gear for a set screw. Should be good to go! Thanks to my buddy Fred for all his help.











Before anyone asks we had to go that close to the teeth because the bevel gear has a collar type thing so any farther back on the gear and it wouldn't have been drilled into a solid piece of metal.

Andrew


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well it's pretty much done.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*nice!*

How much? ..............................:smile:


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> How much? ..............................:smile:


Glad you asked. In total with all parts and paint I spent $65 on the RAS resto


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Very nice Andrew! Now to pick out a nice negative tooth angle blade and start researching 'Mr. Sawdust' RAS table plans! :smile:

Bill


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Actually I've got -6 onsrud on it alrdy haha! I've got a basic table and fence on it ATM but I will be building a better one soon.

Right now I'm working on tuning it. But I've got another small problem. The arm has a lot of left to right play when locked at 0 degrees so I gotta figure out if its the key slot in the back or if something else needs to be addressed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Andrew120 said:


> Actually I've got -6 onsrud on it alrdy haha! I've got a basic table and fence on it ATM but I will be building a better one soon.
> 
> Right now I'm working on tuning it. But I've got another small problem. The arm has a lot of left to right play when locked at 0 degrees so I gotta figure out if its the key slot in the back or if something else needs to be addressed.


I'm trying to remember, but the key has a set screw adjustment. The key is wedge shaped if I recall and it's a little touchy to get right. I'll take a look at mine to see what's up.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

It has a set screw on each side that holds the key in place and the. One that feeds in the end of the wedge going into the track but I can't seem to make the correct adjustment to tighten it, dunno


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Andrew120 said:


> Well it's pretty much done.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 56267


are those legs installed properly?


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Best I can understand yea the legs are installed correctly. I agree it looks weird as hell but that's the only way they go on there. I'm thinking about making a cabinet for it so it can just sit flat on the countertop instead of these goofy legs.

Andrew


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

well, i've had 9 or 10 RASs over the past few years. most of them were abused, so i turned them into the emerson recall program. almost all of them had stands and none of them had legs like that. if they don;t fit any other way, those may be legs to a different saw or leg stand.

your idea for a cabinet is a good one. some guys really build nice ones:

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=6148217&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

and then there are minimalists, like me. one word of caution. as you probably know by now, those saws are not light. be prepared to provide substantial support to the top of the cabinet so it can support the weight of the saw. i doubled up 3/4" plywood. a 2x4 frame for the top or an additional layer of 3/4" plywood would have been a bit better.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Looking good Andrew. I have a similar stand (I believe). The legs looked odd to me too. Here is a pic of the typical assembly:


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Shop Dad said:


> Looking good Andrew. I have a similar stand (I believe). The legs looked odd to me too. Here is a pic of the typical assembly:


Yeah I'm really wondering if these legs are from a different saw because while the bolt pattern lines up it flares the legs at an odd angle and they just don't look right lol


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Andrew, I've seen Craftsman RAS's with legs like yours.

Bill


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Andrew120 said:


> But I've got another small problem. The arm has a lot of left to right play when locked at 0 degrees so I gotta figure out if its the key slot in the back or if something else needs to be addressed.



Is the play in the top arm to post area, or post to housing? 

You might read the Field Service Manual for the saw at: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/1082.pdf


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*remove the key and take a photo*



Andrew120 said:


> Actually I've got -6 onsrud on it alrdy haha! I've got a basic table and fence on it ATM but I will be building a better one soon.
> 
> Right now I'm working on tuning it. But I've got another small problem. The arm has a lot of left to right play when locked at 0 degrees so I gotta figure out if its the key slot in the back or if something else needs to be addressed.


It's the same as mine. but I don't want to mess with it, since it's snug with zero play. The 2 set screws at the sides lock it in depth wise. The set screw on the rear of the key controls the depth the key sits in the slot. The deeper it sits, the tighter the fit. It's touchy if I recall getting it just right.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well even buried to the collar it isn't tight enought to eliminate the play. Idk if the track is just that loose or if the key is worn. Either way time to figure something out.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*take the wedge out*

Put in into the slot below the arm and see if it bottoms out.
It shouldn't but, if so grind a tad off the bottom. Recheck it to see if it's snug now. The slot may have been out of tolerance or the wedge...who knows ? Can't hurt... broke anyway... can't be more broke....well OK, maybe.... :laughing:


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

If you don't have a diagram of the parts. page 10 has it.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=857


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## Spokeshave2 (Nov 24, 2012)

Andrew

I feel your sweat, job looks great but more important thorough. I'm currently restoring all of my vintage equipment. I have 1-49' TT TS, 1-RAS & 1-Makita combo Planer/Joiner in the process and will post pic's soon. I typically break down each piece of equipment completely, sandblast, prime & paint in addition to replacing any worn parts.

A longggggg process but fun.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words Steve and all the other helpful suggestions guys. Well im stuck, i've spent prolly 18 hours on this thing and its 8 different kinds of not square I swear. Nothing seems to lock down and stay put, it all wiggles lose. 

I keep thinking ive got it square and then i'll run a test cut and it just looks terrible. The blade is obviously heeling but i cant adjust it out for whatever reason. The arm is not even kind of straight at 0 degrees and I cant seem to adjust that anymore towards the good but I can make it even more NOT straight...the carriage is wobbly as hell even after adjusting the eccentric bolts to maximum tightness which doesn't even make sense.:thumbdown:

The parts may just be so worn that it wont adjust enough anymore, idk. If anyone is in the Central Arkansas Area and knows how to tune these bad boys I'll buy the gas if you will provide the expertise lol.:wallbash:

But seriously if u guys can think of anything i may have not tried I'd appreciate it.

The ONLY good thing I can say is that it travels up and down on the column nice and smooth with the new gears. :thumbsup:

Andrew


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that is just not right Andrew*

I would start at the base of the column making certain the column cannot rotate in the base.
Then the arm to column adjustment and key must be adjusted to remove any play. It is/was tricky if I recall, but not impossible.
I go back to the depth the key is sitting in the slot to eliminate the slop/play. The set screws adjust the amount of deviation from 90 degrees, right to left. That arm must lock up solid to the column when tightened down. Could be it's not getting tight enough....? The play in the carriage is either a matter of the bearings are worn or the cam shafts are out of their adjustment range. Remove them and look closely to see if they are similar or worn. The cams and bearings were available from ww.searspartsdirect.com a year or so ago.
.
The aluminum plate may have enlarged holes that are not keeping the adjustment in place, but you should be able to tighten them down enough to prevent that. If you start with the non-adjustable side and then turn the cams into the arm to snug the carriage just enough to take out the play that should work...unless the bearings are just shot. They should be removed and checked for side play. A donor saw for parts may be your answer if parts are no longer available. DON"T GIVE UP YET. :no: We can do this, pal.!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Column Adjustment*

The wedge that tightens the column is secured by 2 set screws, one right, one left. The in and out adjustment is a set screw on the end of the round wedge. The further in, the tighter the column, less play. So back out the in/out screw. Push the wedge all the way in and hold it with your hand while tightening the left side set crew as far in as will go until snug. Then tighten/snug the right hand set screw. Then turn in the end set screw until snug..... all the while checking for end plat at the far end of the column . Here's what it looks like. As you can see tightening the left screw will wedge it against the side of the round angled portion of the wedge. That has more to do with taking up the slack adjustment than the in/out adjustment screw, AFAICT.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Got the column/key adjusted about 20 mins before I read ur very thorough and helpful post Rolf! But thank you anyway haha. It is nice and snug now, just need to get the carriage and blade aligned and tight now


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*heel*

I would let the locked position of the arm determine 90 degrees to the fence, just mount a blade, the fewer the teeth the better and use a known good framing square to align the fence to the long leg. If you slide the carriage front to rear it should maintain the same angle. If the carriage is canted relative to the tracks on the arm you'll have to use the cams to make the blade parallel to the tracks in the arm.Work with the front cam and rotate it slightly and check to see which way the blade went...right or left. relative to the tracks. Now the carriage must still be free of play at the same time...so you'll have a bit of a time with it.

I use a one piece fence made of a 2 x 3 or 1 x 3 to set the arm and blade up. then screw it down using elongated hole to get it just right. Then after it all checks out, I make the pass into the fence and just slightly into the top. That kerf is now the master reference since we decided the locked arm is the initial reference. The fence can be always be adjusted, not the angle of the arm. :yes:


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

How far out from the column or back of table should I mount my fence?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

I slide the saw all the way rearward, towards the column, then I use a piece of 6/4 to make sure the teeth of the blade are safely covered. That way I can slide that thickness along the fence without the teeth catching it and locate it where I need to cut it. Anything thicker will catch on the teeth unless you space it out from the fence. I commonly cut 4/4 and 6/4 to length so that works for me.

I use a big blank piece of 3/4" plywood cut out for the column at the rear and overhanging the front so that the blade is not fully exposed when slid/pulled toward you. I have a longer extension on the left since I'm cutting my lengths and letting the off fall go on the right of the blade. I'll have to get the dimensions for you later.

These photos show 2 different fence pieces. The green 1 x 3 has since been added to to increase the height.


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## Spokeshave2 (Nov 24, 2012)

*RAS manual age & facts*

Top of the morning guys. I'm trying to find a owners manual plus age and any related facts on my vintage RAS. I believe it was made between 1950 & 1953. See the pics attached. The model number tag has been removed but I have the serial number tag. I have been restoring this little by little for years.

Can anybody help?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Spokeshave2 said:


> Top of the morning guys. I'm trying to find a owners manual plus age and any related facts on my vintage RAS. I believe it was made between 1950 & 1953. See the pics attached. The model number tag has been removed but I have the serial number tag. I have been restoring this little by little for years.
> 
> Can anybody help?


Not good form to hi-jack a thread.

I would start here.
http://vintagemachinery.org/


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

+1 with what Dave said - Your saw deserves its own thread. Not so much the hijack but it's just a different saw/topic.

Look at this page: http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1141&tab=4 to maybe match your saw up to one that looks like it. It might be a 30C if it's a 10" blade.

The OWWM.com site is really where you want to be with your project. I have a slightly newer ('60's) Rockwell/Delta 10 Plus that I'm in the process of slowly restoring and the OWWM site has helped me a lot.

Bill


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## Spokeshave2 (Nov 24, 2012)

*Manual & Age For my RAS*

I was't aware or did not intend to "Hihack a tread". Those are pretty strong words. I probably shoud have started a new topic but since this topic was a about recognizing RAS types I thought it was appropriate. Been to Vintage Equipment.

Forget it


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Spokeshave2 said:


> I was't aware or did not intend to "Hihack a tread". Those are pretty strong words. I probably shoud have started a new topic but since this topic was a about recognizing RAS types I thought it was appropriate. Been to Vintage Equipment.
> 
> Forget it


Not meant to be strong words, just the term people use when a thread is going in a completely different direction. This was started as a restore thread for Andrews RAS.

You have a good topic, and these typically are not one reply answers.

It helps future searches if the there is a thread title which reflects the content of the thread.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Spokeshave2 said:


> I was't aware or did not intend to "Hihack a tread". Those are pretty strong words. *I probably shoud have started a new topic* but since this topic was a about *recognizing RAS types* I thought it was appropriate. Been to Vintage Equipment.
> 
> Forget it





Dave Paine said:


> Not meant to be strong words, *just the term people use when a thread is going in a completely different direction. This was started as a restore thread for Andrews RAS.
> *
> You have a good topic, and these typically are not one reply answers.
> 
> It helps future searches if the there is a thread title which reflects the content of the thread.


This thread was NOT about recognizing RAS types, it was about a RAS restoration. You got your words confused it seems. You should have started a new thread in your own words, now you get all huffy and leave. There are rules/guidelines for a reason and if you don't want to play by them, we wish you well.
Hijacking a thread is offensive to the OP is seeking advice on his question. Frankly it's just like changing the topic in conversation/meeting that you did not initiate. It doesn't sit well. Start your own meeting/conversation/thread.


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## Andrew120 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well I see there was some fun on the thread in my absence, I'm glad there was something for you guys to do while I was gone haha. Well it's slow go on the saw still. It seems that as the carriage moves from back of the table(column) to the front of the table(crank) it is further and further out of square as it goes.

I don't mind just squaring the fence to the blade but how do I go about this? I used a good square and tried to use the blade as the reference for the fence but it came out way wrong somehow.

Also discovered that the metal arbor adapter I got for my blade(looks more like a precision fit washer to me ) had come out of the bore while attached to the saw. So that may have been causing some of my alignment issues but I don't think it's the whole problem.

Thanks again for all your help guys!
Andrew


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Don't use a blade with an adaptor*

If possible use a blade of good quality and take out any play in the carriage to arm assembly. 
There's a couple ways to square the fence to the blade. Mount the blade, drop it to within 1/16" of the table and make 2 marks on the table on the left side of the blade ...saw all the way in...saw all the way out. Draw a line between the 2 marks then lay your square on the line and butt the fence board to the leg of the square. Now the fence is square to the line which represents the blade path.

The other way is to mount the blade on the arbor, hold one legs of your sguare against the plate of the blade, missing any teeth. The other leg lays on the table and the loose fence butts to it...you need 3 hands for this. You could mount the fence at one end with a screw so it's not sliding around but can pivot up against your square. When you get it lined up mark it and put in the second screw at the other end. then a screw or 2 in the middle out of the blade path of course. 

There's probably another way but those worked for me. :yes:

Now if the carriage is askew in relation to the arm you'll have some heel when you slide the carriage back and forth. If you can use the mounting plate cams on the left side of the carriage, to eliminate the heel AND keep the carriage tight to the arm assembly without any play. The fence will still be square to the blade even if the carriage is askew to the arm.
Heel will cause a wider kerf than necessary and will make accurate cuts difficult, if not impossible. :yes:


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