# Best Manual Mitre saw?



## amateur77 (Jun 3, 2017)

I want to purchase a good quality manual mitre saw that is actually a good quality tool and can produce excellent results- it will be used for trim work mostly but also for some regular mitre saw usage when I will be working away from power outlet. 
I currently got a nobex champion 180 which supposedly is the top-of-the-range-stuff ,and quite expensive as well. I bought it because it got good reviews and people were suggesting it- but it's one of the worst quality tools I have ever bought and I regret that purchase everytime I use that tool. ( stuff that has already broken on it- 2x handles/one guide/both clamps/support piece )+ It doesn't cuts anywhere near square so it's only good for very rough cutting which defeats its purpose. Very good ideas - but very bad execution on that tool!

I don't mind buying something vintage &chunky and restoring if needed but I'm after a real quality tool as I really like this kind of tool and I'm using it quite frequently,the nobex will go straight to dump after I get something better - so I don't want another saw from that manufacturer.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I would suggest a Good antique Stanley, Miller Falls, or Craftsman miter saw. The one I used was dead accurate and easy to use. One thing I learned quickly, make sure of your cut the first time, it got tiring recutting too many times.

You should be able to find a good one on ebay. I can see why the Nobex isn't a real quality tool.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

BigJim is on the money, find a good saw sharpener that will test the saw in the miter box and make any adjustments necessary to get perfectly perpendicular cuts.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have never liked manual miter boxes*

I have the basic wood sided one, a nice Craftsman about 30 years old, and a new Craftsman with the thin 2" blade, open frame. I can't make a decent cut with any of them. I'm certain it's the saw, but new or old that doesn't seem to matter. There's something about a saw blade slowly moving across the wood fibers that just doesn't work compared to a carbide circular saw blade spinning at 4000 RPM letting nothing stand in it's path.

If I needed to make cross cuts away from a power source I'd be seriously looking at the battery power miter saws.:
https://www.amazon.com/Reconditione...1502155559&sr=8-9&keywords=cordless+miter+saw


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> I have the basic wood sided one, a nice Craftsman about 30 years old, and a new Craftsman with the thin 2" blade, open frame. I can't make a decent cut with any of them. I'm certain it's the saw, but new or old that doesn't seem to matter. There's something about a saw blade slowly moving across the wood fibers that just doesn't work compared to a carbide circular saw blade spinning at 4000 RPM letting nothing stand in it's path.
> 
> If I needed to make cross cuts away from a power source I'd be seriously looking at the battery power miter saws.:
> https://www.amazon.com/Reconditione...1502155559&sr=8-9&keywords=cordless+miter+saw



You aren't the only one,no matter how hard I tried the cut was pretty miserable, I imagine it was the sawyer not the saw, but a motorized one was always much better


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I built 98 of these using a Craftsman miter box, fortunately I had a really good saw sharpener next door to me.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

FrankC said:


> I built 98 of these using a Craftsman miter box, fortunately I had a really good saw sharpener next door to me.


Good grief, you must have one heck of an arm after that.

The old hand miter saw was all there was back when I started woodworking. That ole saw was dead on and cut beautifully, I wish I still had it. I did get good cutting base and shoe with my circular saw and square though, cut from backside, not a bad cut and fast running base and shoe. I always kept a very small plane in my nail apron as well as sandpaper, and a really sharp knife came in handy.

That ole miter saw would cut a 60 degrees, loved it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Which one did you have?*



BigJim said:


> Good grief, you must have one heck of an arm after that.
> 
> The old hand miter saw was all there was back when I started woodworking. That ole saw was dead on and cut beautifully, I wish I still had it. I did get good cutting base and shoe with my circular saw and square though, cut from backside, not a bad cut and fast running base and shoe. I always kept a very small plane in my nail apron as well as sandpaper, and a really sharp knife came in handy.
> 
> That ole miter saw would cut a 60 degrees, loved it.


Since the OP is looking for a good one, which did you have? What saw did you use?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Mine was a Stanley, it looked a lot like the one in this photo.


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## Kerrys (May 2, 2016)

Here you go...
https://skagit.craigslist.org/tls/d/vintage-craftsman-miter-box/6246747186.html


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I just picked up one like that at my local thrift shop for $20. I don't have a saw for it though. If you are interested in it, I'd be happy to sell it to you for the $20 I paid for it and the cost of the shipping. I live in the Washington D.C area.

So I ended up getting one of the new Stanley miter saws. It works well enough for my purposes.

But for 90 degree cuts, I have learned that a good knife wall and a line to follow on the edge is all I need.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Kerrys said:


> Here you go...
> https://skagit.craigslist.org/tls/d/vintage-craftsman-miter-box/6246747186.html


That is the unit I had, but the saw that comes with it is a little short I think. 

A good straight saw is essential, on many of them the bar on top will be straight but the blade may be bowed at the bottom, my sharpener guy claimed that edge got stretched from sharpening over time.


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

I recall when living in a new subdivision that the carpenters made their own. Two pieces of 1X4 attached to a 4X4 and they cut their own slots for a plain ol' handsaw; did the job.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'd look for one of the old Millers Falls/Stanley Langdon type boxes. Make sure it includes the saw, since those can be hard to find.

I have one, and it's fantastic. It needed some work when I got it, but now the 90 and 45 degree presets are dead on. Learning to use it does take some practice, and I'm dreading sharpening it. I've done my large rip saw, crosscut saw, and three joinery saws (dovetail, carcass, and tenon), but that 36" blade is intimidating. There are a couple on eBay right now for around $100, which is reasonable, but I've seen them cheaper. I think I paid about $70 for mine, and I've seen them down to about $35 in useable condition.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

Chris Curl said:


> I just picked up one like that at my local thrift shop for $20. I don't have a saw for it though. If you are interested in it, I'd be happy to sell it to you for the $20 I paid for it and the cost of the shipping. I live in the Washington D.C area.
> 
> So I ended up getting one of the new Stanley miter saws. It works well enough for my purposes.
> 
> But for 90 degree cuts, I have learned that a good knife wall and a line to follow on the edge is all I need.



I have one of these. It comes in handy when I'm doing small pieces or especially if I'm working around the house in the evening---no one wants a powered miter saw buzzing on the kitchen floor at 9:00 in the evening when I'm cutting new quarter round for the baseboard. 

I used to have a hard time getting the saw to work accurately. One thing I've learned is to not put downward pressure on the saw. I basically move the saw back and forth and only the weight of the saw provides the downward pressure. Otherwise, the blade is liable to twist.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

gj13us said:


> I have one of these. It comes in handy when I'm doing small pieces or especially if I'm working around the house in the evening---no one wants a powered miter saw buzzing on the kitchen floor at 9:00 in the evening when I'm cutting new quarter round for the baseboard.
> 
> I used to have a hard time getting the saw to work accurately. One thing I've learned is to not put downward pressure on the saw. I basically move the saw back and forth and only the weight of the saw provides the downward pressure. Otherwise, the blade is liable to twist.


yes ... it took me some tries to learn the same thing.

for me, it's more about not wanting all the noise and the dust being thrown into the air.


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## philr (Mar 20, 2017)

*Is it Technique or Equipment?*

Many woodworkers who won't or don't use hand miter saws cite poor cuts. As far as I am concerned, these woodworkers have little knowledge of how sawing (hand or power) works. Let's step back and take a look at our knowledge of hand sawing.

1. Do you know the difference between rip and cross-cut saws and sawing?
2. Are the teeth on a miter saw usually set for cross-cutting or rip sawing? Are you sure? Have you checked it?
3. When desiring a clean hand cut on a 6" wide board, what do you do?
4. If you get those fine clean cuts on the 6" board, why are you not getting them using the miter box and saw?
5. When cutting that 6" wide board what is the TPI of your saw? What is it for your miter saw? 

These last 3 questions are key to obtaining fine hand cut miters using a miter saw and miter box.

Most miter saw cuts are cross grain, so make sure you are using a sharp cross-cutting miter saw. Since your miter saw probably has a higher TPI than your regular cross-cut hand saw, using a finer toothed saw will take longer. Because it takes longer you should not try to hurry the process by using more "power" or "pressure" to make the cut.

When making that 6" wide board cut, did you score the cut line and/or taped it? Why do you not do the same when using a miter saw?

Obtaining clean, fine miter cuts is very possible. Try using only your thumb and middle finger to hold the miter saw as you cut back and forth with your miter box. Note how the teeth are cutting. If they stay in the same, thin, straight groove, then question your technique. If the teeth jump around making a wider or separate groove, then question how the miter saw and box are setup. The saw guides may need to be set along with other parts of the miter box (think band saw setup).

Not only do you need to consider how your miter saw and miter box are used, you need to also consider the wood you are cutting. Get to know your woods. How easy are they to cut using saws with different TPIs? Does the hardness, grain and other characteristics of the wood require different approaches?

Finely keep in mind that miter saws were used for making fine furniture long before power saws were available. So is it a question of equipment, technique, or perhaps both that is causing poor miter cuts?

Phil


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## Talbert McMullin (Jun 10, 2012)

I vote for none of the above. There is a weird one from Japan woodworker that works better than anything and of course it comes with a thin blade Japanese razor saw that is absolutely marvelous. It's dead on accurate and works fast.


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## J.C. (Jan 20, 2012)

If money is no object, one of these should work Jointmaker Pro


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> I have the basic wood sided one, a nice Craftsman about 30 years old, and a new Craftsman with the thin 2" blade, open frame. I can't make a decent cut with any of them. I'm certain it's the saw, but new or old that doesn't seem to matter. There's something about a saw blade slowly moving across the wood fibers that just doesn't work compared to a carbide circular saw blade spinning at 4000 RPM letting nothing stand in it's path.
> 
> If I needed to make cross cuts away from a power source I'd be seriously looking at the battery power miter saws.:
> https://www.amazon.com/Reconditione...1502155559&sr=8-9&keywords=cordless+miter+saw


I will bet that if you were able to use a Japanese pull type saw in the miter box it would work. I always said the same as you when trying to cut with a standard American style. Then I tried the pull saw and it was another world.

George


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

J.C. said:


> If money is no object, one of these should work Jointmaker Pro


I note that it uses a Japanese saw.

George


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

philr said:


> Many woodworkers who won't or don't use hand miter saws cite poor cuts. As far as I am concerned, these woodworkers have little knowledge of how sawing (hand or power) works. Let's step back and take a look at our knowledge of hand sawing.
> 
> 1. Do you know the difference between rip and cross-cut saws and sawing?
> 2. Are the teeth on a miter saw usually set for cross-cutting or rip sawing? Are you sure? Have you checked it?
> ...


You state to be sure that you have a cross cut miter saw. By implication you are saying that ripping miter saws exist.

Why would you ever have a ripping miter saw?

George


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## philr (Mar 20, 2017)

There are three aspects to manual miter saws that are often overlooked.

First is the base unit itself. BigJim posted a photo of an old saw. I have always liked this design for too many reasons. I do not like the newer Stanley one (see photos). You need to be able to adjust the tension on the saw and still be able to raise and lower it, and saw with it easily. My favorite is the Miller Falls version of BigJim's antique Stanley.

The second aspect is the ability to adjust angles that are accurate. There is too much sloppy manufacturing in many of today's manual miter saws. The older ones tend to be better made and while easy to adjust, they hold their angle without any problem.

The third aspect is the saw itself. A quality saw is needed. The blade needs to be reinforced and you need the appropriate number of teeth for the wood and quality of cut you want. The saw on my miter box cost $125 and it cuts beautifully.

My advice is to check out Lee Valley, Miller Falls, etc. If you plan to use any tool for a long time go for quality and expect to pay for it. As for saws, take a look at some of the good hand made saws as opposed to those stamped out on a machine. Pay attention to the quality of the parts on a piece of equipment. Many companies who used to produce quality tools have opted for parts of lesser quality made of plastic, carbon fiber, etc. If you find a saw made of Sheffield steel, give it a consideration. It probably will not be cheap but often times it is worth it.

The final aspect of miter saws that I didn't mention above is the user. Proper cutting techniques are needed along with posture. Don't rely on pumping your arm but rather moving your torso. Let the saw do its job, don't try to force the cutting. If you have had martial arts training, apply body movement that you learned in the arts to your woodworking.

Phil Rasmussen
Mountain Woodworker
Hendersonville, NC
www.mountainwoodworker.com


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

J.C. said:


> If money is no object, one of these should work Jointmaker Pro


I had to do a search on that one, couldn't figure out how it worked. Youtube has a video of it in operation, it is a really cool saw. I personally wouldn't pay that for one, but for precision cuts, that would seem to be one way of doing it.


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## J.C. (Jan 20, 2012)

He was at the IWF in Atlanta several years ago with one showing it off. It is a slick saw but I know I'd probably never use it so I passed.


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## philr (Mar 20, 2017)

*Why would you ever have a ripping miter saw?*



GeorgeC said:


> You state to be sure that you have a cross cut miter saw. By implication you are saying that ripping miter saws exist.
> 
> Why would you ever have a ripping miter saw?
> 
> George


In reality if you bought a complete system you will probably be getting a cross cut saw. However if you purchase a miter system without a saw and then decide to buy a saw, it is possible to buy a rip saw instead of a cross cut saw. There are several manufacturers who make rip saws that look like the "kind" that would be used in miter systems. This is a problem of not having enough info or knowledge about what is being purchased.

In my shop I have both rip and cross cut saws. I also have multi cut saws, Japanese saws, etc. I've seem students. Look at the attached photo and see if you can id the rip saw and the cross cut one. On the surface they look the same but until you check out the teeth, only then will you be able to determine which is which.

Phil


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

GeorgeC said:


> I will bet that if you were able to use a Japanese pull type saw in the miter box it would work. I always said the same as you when trying to cut with a standard American style. Then I tried the pull saw and it was another world.
> 
> George


I was thinking almost exactly the same thing. I recently had an epiphany: "bow" saws should be pulled. Pushing deflects the blade, whether it's for sawing logs







or miters. I haven't had a chance to test the hypothesis on the miter saw yet. Blade deflection may be what helps Frank Klausz cut dovetails the way he does. In other words, blade deflection might be useful in certain circumstances.


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