# Solar kiln of sorts



## Alecthurn (Mar 12, 2018)

Hi I am thinking to build a solar kiln or the idea of the heat from the sun to provide heat. I was planning to build it like a hoop house with clear plastic like they use to grow plants. I figure it's the same idea. Wondering what you guys think. I'm looking to get a solar fan was looking at a 13" that says it's moves up to 1900 cfm with a vent on the other side. Thoughts and recomenations please


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Alecthurn said:


> Hi I am thinking to build a solar kiln or the idea of the heat from the sun to provide heat. I was planning to build it like a hoop house with clear plastic like they use to grow plants. I figure it's the same idea. Wondering what you guys think. I'm looking to get a solar fan was looking at a 13" that says it's moves up to 1900 cfm with a vent on the other side. Thoughts and recomenations please


Keep in mine a solar kiln doesn't kill any insects that might be in the wood. You will only be able to reduce the moisture content. You will also need a dehumidifier in the kiln when the weather is damp.


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## crookedkut (Jan 28, 2018)

Steve Neul said:


> Keep in mine a solar kiln doesn't kill any insects that might be in the wood. You will only be able to reduce the moisture content. You will also need a dehumidifier in the kiln when the weather is damp.


what could we use to kill any insects in the wood while it is in the kiln?


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## Woodknack (May 12, 2017)

133° F for 30 minutes (internal wood temp, not air temp), or use an insecticide

https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_20.pdf


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

crookedkut said:


> what could we use to kill any insects in the wood while it is in the kiln?


With a solar kiln you are only able to dry the lumber. There is nothing you can do to sterilize the wood. Insecticide won't get into the wood. While most insects won't stay in dry wood there is the powder post beetle that will stay in it. About all you can do is look for something spitting out little piles of dust under the wood to see if they are there.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

How big is the wood? One sure thing that bugs can't cope with is very sudden up/down temperature changes.
Slow, with approaching winter, sure. Many insects can manage that.
I use my freezer for bug-wood. 70F then -20 over night then thaw out for a day then into the freezer again.
Do that 5 times and see who's left!


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## Woodknack (May 12, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> With a solar kiln you are only able to dry the lumber.


Why is that Steve? Not hot enough? 

I have tented and used insecticide and it worked. I don't know if it will kill every kind of bug but it killed every kind of bug that was in my wood pile. I later turned the wood down so I know for certain nothing survived and there were bug holes all through it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Woodknack said:


> Why is that Steve? Not hot enough?
> 
> I have tented and used insecticide and it worked. I don't know if it will kill every kind of bug but it killed every kind of bug that was in my wood pile. I later turned the wood down so I know for certain nothing survived and there were bug holes all through it.


A dry kiln heats the wood up to more than 200 degrees. It's left in the kiln long enough the wood gets that hot in the center of it. This is what sterilizes the wood. If bugs are in the center of a board if you spray it with insecticide or fog them in a tent the ones in the center will never know about it. The insecticide won't get to the middle.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

crookedkut said:


> what could we use to kill any insects in the wood while it is in the kiln?


There is nothing you can do to sterilize the wood with a solar kiln. You just have to hope any harmful bugs are not in the wood. Some people just stack wood up and let wood just air dry and don't have a problem. What you need to watch for is powder post beetles. They make just a few tiny holes in the exterior of the wood and completely eat up the wood on the inside. These beetles will make little piles of wood dust under the wood if it is infested. http://blheattreatment.com/packing-process/


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## Woodknack (May 12, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> A dry kiln heats the wood up to more than 200 degrees. It's left in the kiln long enough the wood gets that hot in the center of it. This is what sterilizes the wood. If bugs are in the center of a board if you spray it with insecticide or fog them in a tent the ones in the center will never know about it. The insecticide won't get to the middle.


I asked about the solar kiln. 

As for insecticide, it worked for me.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Woodknack said:


> 133° F for 30 minutes (internal wood temp, not air temp), or use an insecticide..


As most of you know that read my posts...I can't stand kilns!!!...They are (big picture) one of the worst things to happen to the...Art of drying wood...

Most of you also know that I am friends with Tennessee Tim...and he drys wood with both traditional and modern methods...

He also knows how to do it correctly!!! So I should (I guess) change my points about kilns...They aren't the issue...what 80% of the folks out there doing with them is!!

On that note, if you want to actually...KILL BUGGIES!!! Our moderator Steve gave the most common and sure fired ways to do it...and...he outlined the basics of it very sincerity...To that point:

*YOU CAN NOT KILL WOOD INHABITING INSECTS (AKA CHOLEAPTERA) WITH TOPICAL OR EVEN TENTED PEST CONTROL METHODS...PERIOD!*

Sorry to any folks that think they have or can...and...once the pesticide has mitigated depending on the type, most species that have a larval stage dependent on wood can effectively return under more common circumstances that most (99%) of woodworkers know or understand.

To be effectively clear on this, and I am willing to go into more detail if anyone wishes...

Validation: I am/was a professional in the wildlife and pest-control industry at the state supervisory level. I didn't have to "google" this post or whats in it, and base my shared information on 40 years of periodic review and study within the profession...

*2 things kill bugs deep in wood..*.Heat and submersion in water, which was, at one time, a"guild secret" many kept for working many species of wood into different finer examples of the craft from the world of the Luthier to fine furniture. If it was of "special use" or variety it was "relaxed" in rivers or mill ponds for up to one year minimum before milling...and then...only air drying! Pest control in the traditional fashion is a longer subject than this post...


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## Woodknack (May 12, 2017)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> As most of you know that read my posts...I can't stand kilns!!!...They are (big picture) one of the worst things to happen to the...Art of drying wood...
> 
> Most of you also know that I am friends with Tennessee Tim...and he drys wood with both traditional and modern methods...
> 
> ...


I didn't google it either, I posted from experience. Let me relate to you real world experience, not pretend experience, -- if wood has bugs or larvae inside it and you turn it on a lathe, they will be everywhere. They will be all over you, all over the floor, all over the wall behind the lathe. So you can save your posturing, it doesn't impress me, and you can save the patronizing tone, because had my insecticide not worked I would have been covered in larvae and critters twice instead of once but it was once, because it worked. I wasn't arguing with anyone, I just asked if the solar kilns don't get hot enough to kill bugs and you guys got defensive.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think if any of you ever seen the damage a powder post beetle can do you wouldn't want infested wood within a mile of your house. I used to do some repair work for an antique dealer which was importing furniture from Europe. Often during the trip in a container the feet on wardrobes would crumble to dust just from the movement of the ship. What the dealer was having me do is find enough wardrobe feet to use for front legs and just use 4x4 blocks in back. Ever once in a while I would cut a leg off thinking it was good only to find out I could just crumble it in the palm of my hand like a styrofoam cup. If you built anything out of wood with these critters they would get into everything in the house including the framing of the house. They are far worse than termites. Termites tend to stay in a area where there is some dampness but powder post beetles go everywhere.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I know all about one solar kiln .....*

It's the interior of my all black Chevy Suburban in the Michigan sunshine in summer. It's about 140 to 150 degrees in there if you don't crack the windows. You will get the Police on scene if you leave your pets inside, as well as children. 

All that being said, there are several sites that would know what temperatures will kill insects and they all agree that 135 to 140 degrees is sufficient.

See the last entry here:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Solar_Drying_Kiln_QampA.html

See the first question here:
http://www.solarkilninfo.com/a-plac...elated-to-solar-kilns?func=view&catid=2&id=34


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Woodknack said:


> ...I wasn't arguing with anyone, I just asked if the solar kilns don't get hot enough to kill bugs and you guys got defensive...


Hello Woodknack,

I'm not writing post at any one individual unless I name them, and I'm sorry if you took my post as "posturing." It wasn't, but I did validate that perhaps I might just know a heck of a lot more about this subject than what you "think" you are seeing or sharing with others to take and use in there woodworking...at least on this subject. I can't speak to others, only time will tell?? 

There was no disrespect meant but the less experienced woodworkers come here to ask question of those of us that have it. Those us that have it are on a range from"intense armature" to a pretty high level of..."wood :nerd2:"...and one of the reasons I come here to read and share. Even if there are disagreements, it is one of the best (at this time) moderated and administered board available to share on. It is set up well for folks to..."agree to disagree."

I'm not going to try and change anyone's view point. That's folly at best...I will confront poor, incorrect, misleading or incomplete information. As a professional and as an educator, I feel a mandate to do so.

On some of these subjects I worry that folks get the wrong idea when they read of an "accounting" of something, even "...real world experience..." that someone may have had, but could be misunderstanding or only understanding part of what they observe. Biology in general is very often not well understood, not even by the "Biologists" themselves...LOL...yet the better of us have gotten to eat enough "humble pie" when it comes to certain things to say,..."...We don't know, or there is more to know..."

Arthropod biology and ethology is one of those, but unfortunately the "chemical industrial complex" learned a long time ago to work on (and profit from) societies fears and disdain for insects and made a billion $$$$ dollar plus industry out of it...One of the most corrupt I might add and why I left..."trying to supervise it"...for the health of the public and the environment...Way more "bad info" out there and incomplete information...often just to get a contract to spray stuff around a house or facility...or...when someone "thinks" they have a solution but its actually temporary or topical at best...


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