# Sauno wood kiln



## smithingman (Jan 8, 2010)

Hi all,
I was wondering if any of you are using a Sauno wood kiln? if so, can you tell how you like/dislike it? What species of wood are you using it for and what kind of results are you getting with it?
Thank you for you help,
Mark Emig


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## Julian the woodnut (Nov 5, 2008)

I use a home made solar kiln and have never heard of a sauno kiln. What is it?


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## garryswf (Aug 17, 2009)

Jullian,
I'm with you, never heard of the sauno wood kiln. My buddy in Ohio bought the plans and hardware kit for a solar kiln years ago and has dried many thousand Bd/Ft of lumber with it.:thumbsup:
As soon as i can sneak 20 bucks out of my wifes purse i'm gonna invest in Darens kiln plans.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I just looked up Sauno Kiln on the web. It looks interesting and I would guess all the temps are in Centegrade because it would be hard to create steam at 70*
http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Sauno-Wood-Kiln.html

Anyway, I would rather buy the plans from Daren so I could ask him questions without feeling guilty.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I had to Google it too...seems like a lot of money for no more than you get first off. And making "steam" with electrity cannot be cheap on the operation costs. There are better options out there IMO. If you live where the sun shines plenty (doesn't here most of the winter and I still need to dry wood so I use a dehumidifier kiln) There are dozens of free solar kiln plans out there. They can be built for less than that contraption and the operating costs would be a fraction (sunlight is free, but you need fans). Here is one, there are many others out there if this one doesn't suit you.
http://owic.oregonstate.edu/solarkiln/plans.htm

I personally don't like solar for what I am doing, but that is just me probably...heck I have not seen the sun here in central Illinois for 10+ days (stupid snow :thumbdown but I am still kiln drying in the shed.


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## smithingman (Jan 8, 2010)

Well, hopefully someone has actually used one that will reply. I find the steam before drying idea intriguing. Moist heat does a lot of neat things with wood at a cellular level-look what happens when you steam then bend wood-the cellular manipulation is pretty cool. If the theory that it make the wood cells open up then release water more easily "holds water" maybe it does work. I'd really like to hear from or talk to someone who has actually used one and has seen the results. 
As for the home built dehumidification kiln-how long does it take to dry lumber-let's say 5/4 oak? Can you build one to do 1,000 bf at a clip? The dehumidification kiln might be worth looking at. How big a dehumidifier is needed? 
Thanks for your replies-I appreciate the help.
Mark Emig


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I know you wanted to hear from someone who has used that "brand"...maybe you will yet. You mention "moist heat"...all kilns do that at the start. Solars you are venting the moisture out. D/H kilns have even higher relative humidity in the beginning stages becaused they are sealed units. The wood is heated (not going into too much detail, I sell plans you know) and it forces the water to leave the wood cells and into the air. The d/h unit is doing all it can to drop the rh and thus dry the wood in the process. Yes a d/h kiln can be built to do 1000 bft. 5/4 white oak or red (white dries slower) and fresh off the mill or air dried some ? How fast does that Sauno do it ? Believe it or not solar kilns they are slower than d/h kilns even though they run at a higher temp, because they cycle (it gets dark at night).


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

To add rereading Tony's post (from the link) and doing the math 70-75 degrees Centigrade=160-170 Fahrenheit...too hot for _fresh_ sawn hardwood IMO. I don't see how a guy wouldn't have case hardening/surface check...especially on oak. And it's not steaming the wood...it takes 212 at atmospheric/sea level to make "steam". The info I was able to find is vague at best, even though Logosol is selling it, and they are a good company. It must employ steam heat, but it's not steaming the wood...just getting it really hot.


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## smithingman (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for the information. I already have a solar kiln-works great in the summer (but it is not fast-5 to 8 weeks or more depending on species/thickness )-winter not so as I live in the Catskills. I found some information somewhere that had the electrical consumption written and it didn't seem too bad-I'll see if I can find the figures again. As for how fast the Sauno is-the information doesn't seem very forthcoming-they seem to have difficulty in passing information in English instead of their usual Swedish. When I look at a new tool I like to get things as clear as possible so I get a tool I can use and not get a boat anchor, so the lack of information seem puzzling.
The main concern I have with a dehumidifier kiln is how well does the dehumidifier stand up to the acidic nature of oak and other species.
How much are your plans, and how do I order them? 
Thanks again for the help and information-I appreciate it.
Mark Emig


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

smithingman said:


> The main concern I have with a dehumidifier kiln is how well does the dehumidifier stand up to the acidic nature of oak and other species.


That is a concern, tannic acid, so I figured out a way remedy that.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

If you are not in a big hurry you can air dry wood in a dry environment by stacking and stickering and running a box fan to blow air over it. I can get wood down to 8% to 9% this way in my work shop. Takes a few months, but I'm in no hurry.

Gerry


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi mark,
I have a Sauno kiln but it's too soon for any feedback. I built a 1000 BF kiln in the corner of my shop & have the first load in. Ill let you know in 4 or 5 weeks how this first load goes. I will be drying mostly hardwoods like oak, ash, cherry, poplar. I even have a little locust to dry. I have been looking a kilns for two years & this is a small investment compared to others. Solar takes too long when the sun doesn't shine & it doesn't shine much around here. 
jim


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

jim douglas said:


> Hi mark,
> Ill let you know in 4 or 5 weeks how this first load goes.


Please do.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I read up on this thing last year and I think it would be okay for softwoods but there's some stuff about it that makes me think tey're stretching the numbers on hardwoods. And what they say about letting oak air dry for 6 months to lessen the tannic acid sounds fishy to me, but I'm no expert on steam kilns so, like you're trying to do you better get some feedback from users. 

Can't wait for the feedback myself . . . . 

What does the 4000w unit cost btw?


.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> . And what they say about letting oak air dry for 6 months to lessen the tannic acid sounds fishy to me,


Yea as we both know 4/4 red oak will air dry to 10-12% in 1/2 that time in the summer anyway. Probably faster down your way. I can get it 10-12% here in central Illinois in ~100 days during the spring/summer/fall (white oak takes a little longer) so 3 to 4 months. And that is the hard part/most dangerous time for wood from fresh sawn to say 15%, especially in the relatively uncontrolled air dry environment...you can't hardly screw it up after that, so I would think any degrade would happen in the air dry if it was going to...so taking it from truly air dry to 7% is easy, heck we both (and many others) do that with a home dehumidifier. For only a couple pennies a bft, I wonder what the operating costs of this unit are.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Yeah that's true too, but I was thinking that by air drying the oak, that's not gonna help with the acid issue (on that species) because oak vapor (from steaming) is acidic no matter the MC when you start the cycle. oak vapor from steaming is going to contain virtually the same % of acid (I think) so if they are wrong about that what else? 

Steaming is really outside my area of expertise but just sort of thinking out loud. I do think the thing would be good for softwoods and some easy-to-dry hardwoods (except walnut because it discolors it). So, what *are *the easy-to-dry hardwoods? :huh:


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Just removed my first load of oak from the sauno kiln & i'm very impressed. The temp got up to 160 deg farenheit. It took a little over 3 weeks to dry to 7%. This is not a commercial kiln but I can do about 1000 Bf at a time. Next I have a load of 2" maple slabs so I'll see how that goes. Happy with it so far & company service is good, they just don't provide alot of information on the kiln or drying schedules. 
jim


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## smithingman (Jan 8, 2010)

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the update. I have a couple of question, if you don't mind. 
1) What size was the oak and did you air dry it first?
2) Does the manufacturer say that you have to air dry ir first?

Thanks,
Mark


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi Mark, The oak was air dried for 8 or 9 months it's 4/4 by random widths about 10' to 11' long. The manufacturer recommends air drying oak but not other woods. Something about the kiln chamber breaking down. I have some fresh sawn silver maple I'm putting in this weekend.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Is there any way to track your operating costs Jim ? I know I was curious with my kiln how much it cost me to dry the wood in electricity, so I had a way to check that.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

*Daren*

Curious question......In your area, what can the MC get down to when strictly air drying?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Jim, you have the 4KW unit correct? What are the specs on that thing? Their website leaves a lot to be desired on info. I called and they priced the 4KW at under $1400 and shipping was less than $50 so it made me wonder how small are those units? Can you post some pics?


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Daren, I have a seperate meter base so I can figure out the actual cost next billing cycle. 
Tony, I can air dry to about 20%
Texas, try this site it has more specs than the logosol site. http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Sauno-Wood-Kiln.html
I have the 4kw and the chamber can hold about 1000BF 4/4. The price you have is accurate. I'm not much at picture taking or posting. The unit is small & light so I had concerns but it seems well made. Hopefully it will hold up to numerous loads. 
jim


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

So its a styrofoam box ? http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Sauno-Kiln-Dryer.pdf


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Yes they have a 2" blue board foam box. I did some modifications. I built 2x6 walls with R-11 insulation then installed osb and glued the foam board to that. The door is built with 2x3 boards with R-11 sandwiched between osb & foam on the inside. I lift the door with a electric hoist. It's pretty tight with very little if any heat loss. I think that makes a big difference in performance. I have a friend that has dried lumber in a small box with an electric heater and house dehumidifiers. This is the same principal just a little more efficient.
jim


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

jim douglas said:


> . . . This is the same principal just a little more efficient.
> jim



I think that's the thing some of us are trying to determine. I need another kiln in addition to the one I have now, and am planning to make another Daren kiln, but I figured I might check out this kiln so as to have two different types of kilns. A steam kiln might offer an advantage over a DH when drying some species, or not I don't know. 

But the trouble I'm having is getting detailed info on this thing. I cannot imagine that it can be more efficient than the DH I am running but therein lies the rub; no one is forthcoming with this information. I know you probably haven't had it long enough to know yet unless you kept records. I have a separate meter on my shop so it is pretty easy for me is your meter separate? Are you going to calculate your BF cost this next time? 

I think kwh meters have got downright affordable. 

Thanks for the updates look forward to more.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Guys,

USDA has published an operations manual.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/several_pubs.php?grouping_id=101&header_id=p

Just click on "View".

If you would raather not visit a government site because "Big Brother Is Watching", try this one at woodweb.
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Dry_kiln_operators_manual.html


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Texas T, I kept a daily log of kiln temp & moisture levels during drying. I hope to have a ligomat moisture meter for the next load, it has probes I can run into a piece of lumber in the center of the load. This will give me more accurate readings. I'm green a kiln drying so it's learn as I go. Before I bought this unit from Logosol I expressed concerns about lack of information. They couldn't even give me the name of a sauno kiln owner to talk with. So, I offered to keep records and help out. I edited the instruction manual and converted their metric #'s to decimal & centigrade to farenheit. I plan on editing their "How to Build Your Sauno Kiln" too. I have Logosols PH260 & really like it and have been impressed with their customer service & that's the only reason I bought the kiln. I trust them. In this day & age it's not easy finding a company that prides themselves on customer service. 
After reading my above post I want to clarify I don't work for them & this is not an advertising plug for them. Just my opinion.
Quote from T. T. "Are you going to calculate your BF cost this next time?" Yes, as accuratley as possible. I have a separate meter base for the shop, but I run lots of other tools so it may not be 100% accurate but close.
jim


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Jim thanks for the reply look forward to your conclusions. 


rrich, that is a very useful publication in general. I have it and a dozen others bookmarked from past years, but we're discussing the sauno kiln specifically and it really can't be applied to this. It's definitely worth saving though for those that don't have it.


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## MichaelS (Oct 3, 2010)

Hi Jim,

I found this site and this thread on the logosol kiln. I'm just digging for more information and saw you had purchased and installed one back in March. Now that you've had it for 6 months, what are your thoughts? Would you have purchased it, does it do what you want it to. What does it excel at and what do you wish it did? 

Thanks in advance!
Michael


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

*Sauno Kiln*

Hi Michael,
I like the sauno kiln alot I am running my fourth load through now. It's black walnut & some cherry mixed in. I have added a lignomat kiln moisture meter to monitor the MC of the lumber in the center of the pile. I would definitely buy another one. The way things are going & the interest of people wanting lumber dried I will probably build a larger kiln. The steaming process is great & seems to work fine. I have dried red & white oak, ash, pine, silver maple, walnut & cherry so far & have no complaints. Logosol has been great to work with & I would recommend this product. 
jim


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Jim,

Did you figure the BF cost yet? I'm also curious how the 8/4 maple slabs turned out. I would dry a lot of thick acer negundo if it works well. 

Your reports are encouraging thanks for keeping us informed. 








.


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## custom moulder (Oct 4, 2010)

Green-Dri 080404 is another unit I've just recently seen on the market. Don't know anything about it, but it uses low heat.


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

*Sauno Kiln*

TT,
My electyric bill went up $60.00 for one month. So, divide $60 by 800BF & I get 0.075 per bf to dry. Round it to 8 cents. I charge 30 cents BF to dry. 
The 8/4 maple came out great. I think the steaming process helps reduce the stress from drying. I'm no expert & have lots to learn but the journey is fun.
jim


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Tony B said:


> Curious question......In your area, what can the MC get down to when strictly air drying?


I had to drag this thread back up. I have been asked questions about the Sauno in private and have been linking this thread since I have no personal experience with it. I see Tony asked me a question I overlooked. I can airdry hardwoods to 10%-12% in 100 days in the summer, from there it only takes 7-10 days in a d/h kiln to get under 7% (on 4/4). Or throw it right in the d/h kiln fresh sawn and it takes, say 21 days.

So I guess to sum up Jim had to basically scrap the Sauno provided parts and build his own chamber ?:


jim douglas said:


> I did some modifications. I built 2x6 walls with R-11 insulation then installed osb and glued the foam board to that. The door is built with 2x3 boards with R-11 sandwiched between osb & foam on the inside. I lift the door with a electric hoist. It's pretty tight with very little if any heat loss. I think that makes a big difference in performance.


Air dry 8-9 months:


jim douglas said:


> The oak was air dried for 8 or 9 months it's 4/4 by random widths about 10' to 11' long.


Then kiln dry for another 3+ weeks ?:


jim douglas said:


> It took a little over 3 weeks to dry to 7%.



So ~$1400 + modifications $ like Jim made to make it more efficient:


TexasTimbers said:


> I called and they priced the 4KW at under $1400 and shipping was less than $50


And $0.08 bft to take from already air dried to kiln dried:


jim douglas said:


> My electyric bill went up $60.00 for one month. So, divide $60 by 800BF & I get 0.075 per bf to dry. Round it to 8 cents.


Is that about right ? Or did I miss something ? If I misunderstood/misrepresented anything please correct me. I want this thread to be complete and accurate.



.


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Read the whole thing, looks accurate to me.:yes:


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Very accurate Darren. I would like to add a couple things. The Sauno kiln works great. I would definitley add more insulation than their plan shows. The first kiln unit I purchased had some wiring problems & Logosol sent a new one no questions asked & I haven't had a problem yet. I have had the temp up to 160 Deg F, which is great for setting pitch & killing bugs. Getting ready to load with 800 BF of red oak that's been air drying for 6 months. This has been a great little kiln to learn on. I am planning on building another 3,000 BF kiln. The next one will be a Nyle. I will continue to use the Sauno kiln for smaller loads.
jim


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Jim
Have you tried any without air drying at all?


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## jim douglas (Feb 8, 2010)

Yes, some cherry & pine. 
I like to air dry because it cuts down on the time in the kiln. Oak has to be dried slow & it's very corrosive so it's best to air dry it. 
jim


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## mharari (Feb 19, 2011)

*Small wood drying kiln*

Im new to the forum but I just wanted to add my two cents. Being that I live in a more urban situation a large or solar wood drying kiln was out of the question. I went ahead and built one that works great with a hinged box, 2 heat lamps, an old fan,a remote thermometer and a container of damp rid. I am able to get temps up to about 115F. I can tell my progress by the amount of water collected in the bottom of the damp rid container. I will be happy to share any info if youd like to try one.


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