# Super Dust Deputy



## ryan50hrl

So as some of you know, I recently decided to buy a super dust deputy rather than build a home made separator. I'd prefer to spend my time building fun stuff, rather than shop stuff....so time was the major consideration. 

I'm planning on mounting it on a Rubbermaid brute trash can and using contractor bags in it for ease of emptying. 

Here's my build...

Dust deputy...









Trash can....









Laying out the 3/4 inch birch ply I'll be using for the top (with my recently built circle jig)









Groove cut in for seating on can, groove will have weather stripping to help seal the can


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## ryan50hrl

Circle marked for the inlet....









Exterior cut to size, tabs will be for strapping top to base. 









Inlet cut out.....no going back now.


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## Toolman50

*New vacuum set-up*

Ryan
I'm following your post for your new vacuum set up. 
Very eager to see the progress and the final completion. 
Good luck with everything. 
Jim


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## ryan50hrl

Top free of the rest of the sheet...since I don't have a Warner sized band saw, the jig saw had to suffice.








Fits on the can perfectly. 









Rounding over all the edges on my table.


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## ryan50hrl

Mocked up....


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## Burb

Looking very cool Ryan. I'm excited to see how it works. BTW, what dust collector is it being hooked up to?

Mark


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## ryan50hrl

Just about done for tonight...I need to locate a piece of plexi for a window in the top so I can see if the cans getting full. Window location to be the cross hatched area.


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## ryan50hrl

Well I went downstairs tonight to work on the rolling base, but I'm out of 3/4 plywood....so I thought I'd cut the window opening, but I apparently threw away the piece of plexi I thought I had....guess I'm out of commission tonight.


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## hokeyplyr48

Looks awesome so far, looking forward to see the rest of it. 

What dust collector are you hooking it to?


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## ryan50hrl

I have a delta 50-850 with a Wynn filter.


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## ryan50hrl

The next thing I need to figure out is the hose routing. Due to my shop layout, my dust collection has been hoses across the floor. 

As the impeller motor was close to the floor before, it's not been a concern to just let the hoses hang. But with the new layout the intake port on the dust deputy will be 5 feet off the floor....

The question now is do I utilize a hard pipe to the floor from the input and then go about my usual hoses on the floor, or do I finally run pvc on the ceiling?? 

Pvc on the ceiling is going to about double the lengths to the tools, but would be almost exclusively smooth pipe.


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## hokeyplyr48

I'm in a similar boat. I'm also struggling because the SDD has a 5" inlet which means you can't use PVC. So you have to use spiral pipe or nordfab. 

What are you going to use? Or are you going to neck it down to 4" straight from the SDD?


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## ryan50hrl

I kinda plan on going right to 4 inch. My runs aren't long, and I'm not paying for 5 inch spiral....as much as I'd like it I'm sure.


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## ryan50hrl

So I haven't made a ton of progress, but I got the rolling base built today. It's built to allow attachment of hoses and whatnot to it.


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## dtsdig

Great build so far! I am planning to pick up a Super Dust Deputy XL in the next month or so. I can pick it up right from Oneida and save the shipping costs. I think I'll steal your rolling base and can setup when I get around to building mine and the plexi insert is an excellent idea!


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## Marv

I'm using this 5" 26 ga pipe (looks like it went up 10 bucks since I bought mine) with my SDD along with some 5" plastic fittings and hose I found at Busy Bee Tools. Works great and was way less expensive than any other 5" options I found.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCTMATE-GR...614?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d25e91b1e


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## ryan50hrl

So a quick side story...I needed a piece of plexi for the window in my top, so I ran down to a local glass company to pick up a piece rather than buying it online or at the big box store. I know they always have smaller scrap pieces (or until recently anyhow). 

I told the guy at the desk I needed a small piece, I was open to size...anywhere from 2-3 wide by 8-10 long. Anything 1/8th thick give or take half. 

He says....I don't sell scrap. 3x8 is 6 bucks. I tell him I'll think about it, and stopped by a big box store on my way back from lunch and picked up an 8x10 piece of lexan for 3.89. 

The real kicker is I intended on having him come out and service my patio door as well as I just can't get it sliding like it should. I think I'll get some other quotes on that as well. It's no wonder small home town shops are going out of biz. 


Anyway....more pictures coming later tonight.


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## ryan50hrl

Back side of the top with the window installed. It's epoxied in to ensure a tight seal.


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## ryan50hrl

Top side...


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## ryan50hrl

Now the next decision is whether to use threaded rod to hold the top down, or ratchet straps. Ratchet straps will be easier to install, and less hassle to get out of the way when I want to pull the can out, but threaded rod will be quicker to loosen and tighten in use.


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## hwebb99

I would use threaded rod. Ratchet straps are clumsy to hook up & loosen.


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## ryan50hrl

Well I was considering bolt on self retracting ratchet straps, but apparently they've gone up in price since I last bought them for the transom straps on my boat....


Threaded rod is looking better.


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## hwebb99

Make the threaded rod easily detachable from the base. The first thought that comes to my mind is to drill a hole and epoxy a nut into it.


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## dtsdig

What about using just plain old bungee cords? You could put eyelit bolts on the base and just drill holes on the tabs on your cover.


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## hwebb99

Bungee cords probably aren't strong enough. They have to hold up his top heavy DD with two 4" pipes hanging off of it.


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## ryan50hrl

I plan on cutting slots into the top to have the threaded rod come off the top easily. I'll use star nuts on top to quickly be able to pop the top off to empty. Guess tomorrow will include a run to the hardware store.


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## ryan50hrl

What started all of this was some bungee cords holding my filter on to my dust collector. I Found that it held it ok until it had pressure on it, then it wasn't strong enough.


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## hwebb99

You might have been better off to have bought a barrel with a locking rim instead of a trash can.


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## ryan50hrl

I have one, but it would have made removing the bag impossible as they all neck down a touch. I flat out refuse to have a separator that doesn't use bags.


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## hwebb99

I understand that problem. It took about five of us to wrestle a bag out of a 55 gallon drum at the shooting range tonight.


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## ryan50hrl

Well I picked up the threaded rod and some random other pieces tonight....first step was getting slots cut in the top.








Router with a 1/4 upcut bit did the job.


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## ryan50hrl

Slots cut.


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## ryan50hrl

Due to a lack of preplanning....the plan to use a conical hole and a double nut set up fell apart. The rods needed to come through right above the casters. 










A quick trip to the hardware store and 4 tee nuts were procured and installed. 

Threaded rod installed, and I had on hand enough 1/4 ID poly tubing to encase one rod....I'll pick up more tomorrow. 










Close up.


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## dtsdig

Looks awesome! I really dig your design.


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## ryan50hrl

Thanks!! I'm getting closer and closer to my most dreaded part of this project, which is figuring out the plumbing of my dust collection. 

I've for years been utilizing two flex hoses and moving them around, but really think it's maybe time to get to hard piping. The difficulty for me is I have relatively low ceilings at just under 7 feet in the basement, and a smaller shop that's constantly needing to rearrange to fit my current project. Then I've got random annoying things like a sump pump, furnace and water heater taking up space In my shop.


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## michaelpugh

I'm putting in my dust collection now. Using 4" sewer and drain. That'd be a lot tougher in your situation. I can see why you hesitate. If you're moving things around due to space and that low 7' ceiling would suck. My ceiling is pretty low too. It's aggravating flipping a board around and hitting the ceiling....


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## ryan50hrl

4 inch S&D is kinda where I'm leaning. I just hate to reduce down the 5 inch inlet to 4 right away.


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## michaelpugh

Yes that does suck...no pun intended????


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## michaelpugh

Just measured. My ceilings are 7'9" so not much better for sure. The ts, ms, and ras are all in line with the dc so I'm running that under the work bench then coming up past the ts for the other two but still running across the top of the table in some dead space. The other side with the bs and jointer and a floor sweep will come across on the ceiling then down


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## michaelpugh

Plan on putting this into the bottom of the ms box hoping it will help get the dust inside. And I can sweep over into it. It's from an old shop vac I've replaced. Hope it works! I'm teeing into two 2" for the ms, one to attach to the saw and the other for this with a 4" gate before the t


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## ryan50hrl

A bit excited, the dust collector fits almost perfectly in the corner. I was pretty sure it was a no go for here. 









Now this lets me tuck the dust deputy in next to it.


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## dtsdig

Any updates?


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## ORBlackFZ1

Hey Ryan:

Is there enough flex in the threaded rods to allow the top to come off easily?

Thanks,
Eric


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## ryan50hrl

There is. The top of the rods flexes about 6 inches with no more than a pinky finger.


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## ryan50hrl

dtsdig said:


> Any updates?



Not yet.....got a bit delayed. I did pick up reducers to bring everything to 4 inch pipe...

I'm hoping to make some progress this weekend.


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## ryan50hrl

Well I started hanging hard pipe tonight....made some good progress!


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## michaelpugh

Looking good Ryan!!!


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## ryan50hrl

Made some progress taping joints today...opted to go with white duct tape instead of glue as I'm hoping to move in the next two years...

Also, marked the top to bolt the dust deputy on...


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## Burb

This is looking great. I never cared for my Dust Deputy as it didn't work very well. I'm anxious to see how your setup goes. I currently have the Grizzly Baby Cyclone (Model #G0703)/ It works very well connected to one thing at a time, but it just doesn't have the static pressure to be hooked to much more. I'd like to get a good 2+ HP unit with a good Wynn filter and then just add the SDD like you did.


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## ryan50hrl

Everything will be on hold for a few days while I wait for the blast gates to show up. I bought eight new metal blast gates from rockler but their free shipping says 7 to 10 days.


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## michaelpugh

So free shipping on top of that price? I got robbed. I was thinking at least you had shipping costs. Wow.


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## ryan50hrl

Nope...6.49 each with free shipping for metal 4 inch blast gates....I feel a bit guilty cause I'm pretty sure they aren't making money on these.


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## ryan50hrl

Blast gates and piping all installed. 

The blast gates didn't come close to the inner diameter of sdr pipe, so ten wraps with electrical tape and they were then a very tight fit.


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## michaelpugh

Ryan you may try turning them sideways when you can instead of up and down. It may make it easier to keep them open. Like the ones in the second pic.


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## BWSmith

Ryan,I'd hardpipe it between the separator and the unit.Did that recently on a section(of duct) that was similar......... had run flex for years and then one day,had to have a pce of hose somewhere,snagging it.To expedite the job I needed the first pce hooked up,so I hard piped it.It swivels with a top and bttm 45....and a 2 foot straight,inbetween(looks just like your setup).

The funny part is,the straight/hard pipe is way better.The hose used to always tug on the setup causing issue.The hard pipe acts like a purpose built swingout,better lucky than good?


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## ryan50hrl

There is hard pipe most of the way between the dc and the dust deputy. There will be about a foot on either end of flex hose to allow for movement.


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## dtsdig

This is looking sweet! I am waiting for my Super Dust Deputy XL to be delivered but I haven't even begun to think about piping and blast gates.


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## ryan50hrl

Just an FYI...rockler has metal gates half off with free shipping right now....6.49 each.


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## ryan50hrl

Attached to the top....and final connections!!


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## ryan50hrl

All hooked up and super disappointed. Prior to the dust deputy the lower bag fully inflated and was very hard. Now with the dust deputy hooked up the lower bag inflates, but not with much force and the suction is lack luster at best. The dust below this pipe is less than 1 inch from the pipe and isn't even moving at wide open. My dust collector prior to this was much better.


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## michaelpugh

Oh that sucks. Let us know if you figure something out. I was thinking about adding something like this to mine..


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## ryan50hrl

So as of now.....my initial guess is the 4 inch ducting I ran is the culprit. I unfortunately don't think there's a solution other than pulling out the 4 inch and replacing with 6....


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## hwebb99

That is terrible suction. I knew a separator reduced the suction, but I didn't think it was that bad. Are you sure you have no leaks or clogged pipes? What size pipe did you have before?


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## ryan50hrl

No leaks that I can find....and the pipes are brand new....no clogs.


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## hwebb99

How far are you running pipe? Lots of guys have used 4" pipe with much better success. How much work would it be to bypass the separator to make sure it isn't the problem.


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## ryan50hrl

That's the plan tonight or this weekend.


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## Burb

Best of luck in trying to determine the actual cause of this. I wonder if Oneida has any stats or documents regarding loss due to DC HP size, duct size, etc.


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## Marv

I'm using 5" in and out of my SDD with a 1.5 HP Delta 50-760 and reduce to a 4" branch. Suction is excellent even when I open the 4" and 2.5" ports on my table saw cabinet and blade guard at the same time. One thing I have found is that performance is significantly reduced with even a small leak between the cyclone and bin however I have a feeling the 4" is your culprit.


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## ryan50hrl

I bypassed the dust deputy and went dust collector to hard pipe. The difference was noticeable, but still not as strong as with just flex hose. 

I'm a bit at a loss as I really expected hard pipe to flow better than the flex hose....


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## ORBlackFZ1

Ryan:

Sorry to hear that your dust collection performance is not as you expected. Looking through your photos, it looks like you have a lot of piping parts that degrade your performance. Did you design your system before you started the installation? Here is a great web site to help you design the system for the peak performance:

http://www.airhand.com/designing.aspx

There are quite a few other dust collection design web sites available. I happen to like the Air Handling one. Maybe some others will post ones that they have used successfully. 

There are some good books available for designing your optimal system also. Here is a reference thread:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/dust-collection-references-65642/

If you can not find any leaks in your current setup, then you might want to look at your design again for improvements. 4" pipe with 90 degree bends can degrade your performance dramatically. Without doing the calculations, I would guess that you would want at least a 6" diameter main line for your current dust collector.

Eric


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## dtsdig

ryan50hrl said:


> I bypassed the dust deputy and went dust collector to hard pipe. The difference was noticeable, but still not as strong as with just flex hose.
> 
> I'm a bit at a loss as I really expected hard pipe to flow better than the flex hose....


How is the conversion to 6" piping going? I received my XL a week ago and I'm just beginning to wrap my mind around the ductwork design.


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## Jackfre

*You might consider...*

Ryan, I think you used shorter radius fittings. Those sanitary tee fittings are much more restrictive than T-wyes. A T-wye has a much bigger footprint, but also, substantially lower pressure drop. All the 90's should be long sweeps. Also, as long as you have located this system in a fixed position, how about moving the motor up to the level of the SDD to give a more direct connection?


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## ryan50hrl

dtsdig said:


> How is the conversion to 6" piping going? I received my XL a week ago and I'm just beginning to wrap my mind around the ductwork design.



I've been otherwise occupied for a few weeks now so it hasn't changed one bit....

Hopefully in the next two weeks I'll get to it.


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## ryan50hrl

Jackfre said:


> Ryan, I think you used shorter radius fittings. Those sanitary tee fittings are much more restrictive than T-wyes. A T-wye has a much bigger footprint, but also, substantially lower pressure drop. All the 90's should be long sweeps. Also, as long as you have located this system in a fixed position, how about moving the motor up to the level of the SDD to give a more direct connection?



The 90's are the longer sweep of the two that menards and Home Depot offered. 

I really can't get the motor up where I'd like it...and unfortunately the sump pump is in the way from where I'd have to move it. 

My current plan is to go to 6 inch metal duct from the blower to the top of the dust deputy, and then a 5 to dual 4 y to split off from the input of the dd to two separated main trunk lines. 

If that doesn't work...I'll say to hell with it and leave it how it is.


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## ryan50hrl

So the problems were virtually eliminated with a 6 inch duct from the blower to the dust deputy. 

I did find out that delta has an internal baffle that reduces the input to 4 inches....had to cut that out and install a new 6 inch pickup on the blower. 

Not as pretty looking as I had hoped....but works well.


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## Burb

Thanks for the update. Glad you got it sorted out.


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## ORBlackFZ1

ryan50hrl said:


> So the problems were virtually eliminated with a 6 inch duct from the blower to the dust deputy.
> 
> I did find out that delta has an internal baffle that reduces the input to 4 inches....had to cut that out and install a new 6 inch pickup on the blower.
> 
> Not as pretty looking as I had hoped....but works well.


Wow! an internal baffle! I wouldn't have thought of that! My Jet unit is completely open to 6" after the duel 4" Y is removed. I am sure glad you were able to fix the problem. Enjoy your dust deputy!

Eric


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## jdonhowe

I vaguely recall that Delta started putting that baffle plate in to reduce the risk of burning out the motor. Apparently some users would run the collector with minimal or no ducting (i.e. wide open). Since current draw (amps) is proportional to air flow, the motors were pulling too much current. 

I assume that Delta's decision for adding the baffle was to reduce their cost of warranty replacements, at the expense of machine performance. As long as it's connected to a DC system, removing the baffle won't risk motor burn out, and as you've seen, can only improve performance. I removed the baffle from an earlier DC (a Delta 50-850), and never had any problems; I never did a before/after test, though. Glad it's working for you.


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## ryan50hrl

I can see that....I would think a circuit breaker would be a better option than a baffle.


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## Marv

ryan50hrl said:


> I can see that....I would think a circuit breaker would be a better option than a baffle.


My 50-850A had a circuit breaker on the motor as well as the baffle however I never had an issue with it even after cutting the baffle out.


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## Oneal-Woodworking

ryan50hrl said:


> I can see that....I would think a circuit breaker would be a better option than a baffle.


Great pictures in this thread. :thumbsup:

You may have figured it out already and if so please disregard this - I have a bunch of the same exact blast gates as you do and I noticed a few things right off the bat about them. First thing I noticed is that there is a particular direction that they want to be installed to reduce any leaks (the side with the locking screw should face away from the suction IIRC) and there is a huge gap near the bottom of those gates (in between the 2 sides of the castings where they fit together) that you may want to caulk or silicone up. That gap is going to leak a lot when the gates are open and in use (not so much when the gates are closed)

I am talking about the Woodstock International blast gates here as that is what it looked like you bought from the pictures.

I loved everything about the quality of those gates except for that gap in the bottom of the castings where they fit together. Nothing a little silicone will not fix...

Best of luck with the rest of your project here Ryan. :thumbsup:


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## ryan50hrl

I did notice that....right as I installed the last one. I've been going back and forth between sealing them, or flipping them all around.


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## Oneal-Woodworking

ryan50hrl said:


> I did notice that....right as I installed the last one. I've been going back and forth between sealing them, or flipping them all around.


This is the gap that bugged me most:









This is what I fixed it with:








(that's 1/8" window screen spline - has a bajillion uses in any shop and is cheap) 


Loose side of blastgate:









Tight side:


























Would definitely buy these again if needing 4" blastgates... :yes:


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## ryan50hrl

So an update....

If anyone tells you that sealing all the PVC joints with duct tape to allow you to go back and easily change things later will work....don't listen to them. 

I've spent the last three nights disassembling all the pipe in the shop and cementing it all together. Tape held fine for a few days, but was rapidly starting to fail. So much for duct tape solving everything. 

Other than that, it's been working pretty well.


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## Marv

I just press fit mine and it's been working fine with no noticeable leaks.

BTW, don't mean to hijack your thread too much (been wondering where you went!) but you mentioned on a thread awhile back about seeing the upgrades I made on the Craftsman bandsaw I scored so here's a couple of pics and the thread (yeah I got a little carried away!)

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/craftsman-bas-350-special-edition-14-bandsaw-109097/


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## Getting better

Thank you for a great thread. I,m on the same path ( haven!t started yet). I'm using a 55 gal drum with trash bags. Planning to continue with thr 4" black pipe as closes to the SDD as practical.


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## Parabola

I imagine a silicon sealer on the exterior of the joint would also work and be somewhat non permanent. I believe a YouTube woodworker by the name of Jay Bates did this


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## ryan50hrl

I thought of trying that, but decided PVC is cheap enough that I can always start over in the next shop. I've opted to do it right and stop half arsing the piping when the rest of the system was built pretty well.


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## RustikCustom

Awesome setup Ryan looks great !!


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## ryan50hrl

UPDATE: So I emptied the bin for the first time tonight. (From the date on the post when this was completed, you can tell I haven't cut much wood lately). Anyhow, ran into a few issues. So since when I built this, it was easy to lift the dust deputy off the top, I didn't plan well for when the dust deputy would be held relatively stable by hoses and pipe. Now it became fairly difficult to get the can out from under it due to my placement of the threaded rod. I'll need to rework the front rods locations. 










On the upside, the dust deputy works so well that for over 30 gallons of sawdust, this is all that made it past.


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## ORBlackFZ1

Ryan:

Welcome to the wonderful world of pre-separators! Your lungs will thank you. 

Here is a thread with my results after installing a Thein Top Hat pre-separator:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/pipe-diameter-vs-performance-59625/index2/#post827313

Your data may be difference, since I am using a shop built Thein pre-separator.

Eric


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## ryan50hrl

I came really close to building a thein, but opted for the dust deputy to reduce suction losses. 

Either one probably would have been fine.


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## hwebb99

How does the filter look?


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## ryan50hrl

Clean as the day I put it on.


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## hwebb99

Do you have a drum sander? That is what kills my filter.


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## ORBlackFZ1

hwebb99 said:


> Do you have a drum sander? That is what kills my filter.


Do you have a pre-separator? I don't have a drum sander, but my Jet 12" spiral head jointer and Grizzly 20" spiral head planer both would kill my filter before switching to a pre-separator. After installing the Thein Top Hat pre-separator, 99%+ of the sawdust ends up in the barrel, not the plastic bag.

Where are you located? You could post to see if there is anyone in your area that would be willing to bring their Super Dust Deputy by for you test it out.

Eric


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## ryan50hrl

I don't have a drum sander either. But prior to the dust deputy my filter would be clogged every time I replaced the bag. Now, not so much.


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