# Need big time help with small project



## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Hi,

I haven't done any major woodwork in a long time. Mostly, as I am an artist and a senior, I just paint or fiddle around with small stuff. I now live in senior housing and need some help or ideas with what I can build/make to help me get my mobility scooter IN and OUT of my small apartment. These efficientcy apartments are nice but their hallways are very narrow. I use the scooter a lot just riding around shooting photos for my artwork; I am not infirmed, yet, although if I keep lifting that scooter like I am...I will be! I pretty much walk everywhere except when I am out and about with my scooter with my camera. 

This is the problem, the scooter I have (see pic) is "long" almost 6ft long. If it were shorter, no problem, but unfortunately it is NOT! The problem with it is that to exit my apartment door the hallway is too narrow to back the scooter all the way out; I have to constantly grab the bottom frame of the back of the scooter just above the back wheels and physically lift it up and slide it over an inch or two, which is all I can do because it is quite heavy and hurts my back too much to do anymore than that. I constantly have to lift it and move it sideways because those back wheels won't budge (naturally because they are rubber) when being pushed sideways. So I have to lift it 5 or 6 times till I have the scooter in position where I can turn the front wheels and finally get it out in the hallway, fully. I tried putting those 'slider" things I saw on TV under the wheels that makes moving furniture, easier but that didn't work out too well. I find taking the scooter out backwards is easier than taking it out, frontwards. So, maybe you good folks can come up with a better idea. I thought about storing it in storage, but that's quite a walk to the nearest one! Any suggestions as to how I can get my scooter to work with me? What I can build? I am open to all ideas.

Thanks folks!

Lane


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Welcome to the forum, Lane! Add your location to your profile when you get a minute. That often helps us to help you.

What woodworking tools do you have, or have access to and can easily use? That might help with suggestions.

David


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## Kerrys (May 2, 2016)

I’m thinking along the lines of a small hydraulic jack on wheels. Perhaps a small floor jack or a stubby bottle jack buit into a cart.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

how about a desk lifter/mover? if the center of gravity cooperates, it would go under the "floor pan" - lifts the whole thing onto a swivel dolly....


the handle is removable - but you would need side clearance to push the handle down and lift. could you use the open door way for that space?
also, how smooth are the surfaces? it has two inch wheels - which could be an issue on carpet and/or sills/bumps/etc.
from the pixs it looks like you could replace the casters with bigger wheels.


https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...llies-Desk-Furniture&infoParam.campaignId=T9Z


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

If you would provide the dimensions of your entry/exit area and the dimensions of the scooter it would be a great help.


You used the word apartment so I assume you do not own.


You might try a teflon sheet and see if the tires will slide on that. I am not sure you can find one stiff enough. You may have to mount it to a thin piece pf plywood.


George


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## justdraftn (Feb 20, 2019)

How about a smaller scooter?


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## Mikhail2400 (Jun 20, 2018)

What about either one of the shop tool wheels like this https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-17000-Workbench-Caster-Pack/dp/B00SX3T2LO/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=tool+mobility+kit&qid=1554205503&s=hi&sr=1-18which only engage when you push them down or maybe even a lever lift and wheel like is used on some tools. Like this https://www.rockler.com/lt14-lt16-3000-series-bandsaw-mobility-kit


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Konjur1, I have a simple solution that I think will work for you. I posted the idea on routerforums a while back. Here is the link. If you have any questions about it post them here and I will answer them.https://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/126474-simply-mobile-castor-dolly.html


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You just need one more wheel ....*

You need an additional wheel that will raise the scooter just enough to allow it to slide sideways more easily without tipping too far. A trailer jack would work with a crank handle which moves the caster wheel down. 

https://www.trailer.parts/Boat-Trailer-Swivel-Jack-1000lb-Capacity-Bolt-On-Zinc-Plated_p_5372.html


Another approach with no effort would be to use a 12 Volt jack like this on a small dolly:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/BLACK-B...bYP0RR4_WNYaZv72W84aAlESEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds 



Or one of these:


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## NVwoodworker (Jun 10, 2018)

Or ---- A big sheet of slippery plastic:

https://www.amazon.com/Forearm-Forklift-Appliance-furniture-appliances/dp/B01GJPJR9O


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Some great ideas here!! I will work through them ALL one by one to see which one works out the best! Thanks guys!!!


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

if you can post a pix of the back end of the trike that would be helpful.


seeing the frame construction and space available may generate a few more ideas.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Ok, discovered new problem: should have added all this before. My apologies! Here are bunch of pics. Hope you can read what I typed into each pic. There is another problem tho with the back end of this scooter. The only place that any kind of a structure can be placed that can withstand lifted or force without harm is directly under that iron bar where I wrote the words "solid iron bar" in the pic. That iron bar is 18" up from the floor up to just underneath the bar. The bar itself is about 14 1/2" across at its straightest part before it starts to curve inwards at the sides. The circumference of the bar is 5" around and looks to be quite strong. 
The scooter measures at its widest width from outer surface of "FENDER to FENDER" (as they jut out farther than the wheels) 28 and 1/2". I don't believe I can use any sort of a jack because I have to be able to turn the handle bar at the front end and need to be able to reach them. The jack would have a handle which would push me further back, I think. Right? Anyway...here are some pics, hope they are self explanatory.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

*other picture for that iron bar*

Meant to post this pic in with the others. Tried to swap it out but the edit feature wouldn't let me, so had to add it in here.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I donno .....*

I think that this from Harbor Freight:
https://www.harborfreight.com/1250-lbs-capacity-vehicle-positioning-wheel-dolly-62234.html













would fit under here:



Using the two shock support bases, which are very sturdy OR using a wood block to span the distance if it's too much.


Go to a Harbor Freight in person , in your scooter and ask for the manager, who most often is a very helpful person. They will test out which if any of their many types of jacks will work for you.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

the pc labeled "solid iron bar" is most likely steel tubing. it is part of the frame that holds the seat and obviously is "supended" on the structure that holds the motor, the springs and the anti-sway bar.
if you lift on the yellow bit, you have to move it upward so far that the suspension reaches the end of its travel before the wheels will come off the ground.
the theory behind using a dolly is it will be completely under the footprint of the tryke - basically the back end would "float" in any direction. 

the tricky bit is how to get it on the dolly.
question: you mentioned backing in the door - would a dolly under the front wheel work? back in, put the front on a dolly, swing it to align straight thru the door . . .
question: if the back end is on a dolly, can you push the tryke in and out of your apartment or do you need to "drive" it in/out?


not clear from the pix - does an axle drive the wheels or are they friction drive? the axle is a 'natural' lifting point....


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

That's a good idea but I don't drive anymore and the nearest Harbor Freight to me is unreachable using my scooter. But thanx!! I don't know if I would be able to lift the back end of this scooter to get it on that thing which looks like a pretty interesting tool to have.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The "dolly" is the jack ....*



TomCT2 said:


> the pc labeled "solid iron bar" is most likely steel tubing. it is part of the frame that holds the seat and obviously is "supended" on the structure that holds the motor, the springs and the anti-sway bar.
> *if you lift on the yellow bit, you have to move it upward so far that the suspension reaches the end of its travel before the wheels will come off the ground*.
> the theory behind using a dolly is it will be completely under the footprint of the tryke - basically the back end would "float" in any direction.
> *
> ...



Tom, the reason they did away with bumper jacks is as you describe... to much travel before the wheels come off the ground. :|

The reason I suggested the Harbor Freight wheel dolly is that it is also a jack. You slide it underneath and pump up the jack with the foot pedal ...unless I'm missing something here.

The wheels will "caster" to allow it to move sideways. This is also why I suggest to go in person and see what will work, no "guessing" involved over the web, regarding heights and widths.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

You said it..."would be pretty tricky to get it on!!!" I can easily push this scooter; it has a "push" button which when you press it, makes it easier to push the thing frontwards or backwards. I prefer taking it out of my apartment with the backwheels facing the hallway. If I try to do it with the front wheels facing the hallway, I can't correct any movement that stubborn back end is doing because I can't get to it when it is inside my apartment. I would have to be able to climb over the scooter to reach it. I can just about reach the handlebars as it is by laying across the top of the yellow bucket when I am backing the scooter out, but I wouldn't be able to get to the back because I can't climb over the handlebar. There is just no room in the doorway for me AND the scooter!! And I would be giving up the only leverage I have.

Still, even so, the way I do it now (backing it out) the front wheel tends to have a mind of its own; I have to climb over the bucket to keep it from every which way. I'm all for hanging a hoist from the top of the doorway and hooking it up to that yellow heavy bar. LOL! Doubt if I'd get away with that.
Are the wheels friction driven or axle driven? I think they are axle driven.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You are going to respond to my posts?*

This isn't exactly a woodworking question, more of a mechanical engineering or industrial design issue. If a woodworker here has a solution, great, but near as I can figure, it involves a moving/lofting heavy item like the scooter and designing a way to "steer" it sideways. 

The wheel jack does both, so I'm giving offering any further suggestions. Good Luck.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

the most straightforward "canned" solution is the desk lifter type thing. gets inserted from the side, lifts the whole thing onto a pivot point basically just in front of the seat, handle comes off. winds up "suspended" free floating, nothing sticking out....
not entirely certain the hallway has enough room for the handle to be pushed down in the doorway.... the front or rear would have to go past your door and into the trike framework art .... the other option is to put it up on the lift before you get into the hallway - which may or may not have an area particularly convenient.



working on a drawing of a 'tilting plate' - standby....


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

This is a video on a desk dolly...But it required about 4-1/2" clearance. The handle on a desk dolly slides in and out of the casting of the dolly once lifted (not shown in the video).
https://handtrucks2go.com/Desk-Movers-Dolly.html


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

Gary - the lifters are suited - but not sure there's room 'to the sides' to get it in and jacked up....

as I drew through the tilting plate it just got more and more complicated due x,y and z, so I dumped the idea.
actually, the lever solution you linked is the most elegant - the glitch is where to get a hold on the chassis.
the photo shows a possibility - appears to be a vertical U or box strut which seems tot be part of the motor mounting - see the circle:








here's a lever solution - sorta' to scale assuming a 14" wheel and 3" casters. 
looks like all hard surfaces, so a 2" caster would likely work fine - especially if it's clip on, move the back end, clip off, drive in/out of the apartment.
the lever is simple, needs access only from the rear, and should be reasonable light weight.
I would make it a rectangular box, the inner cross piece for stability and the outer as a treadle; two pieces, a roughly 2x4 with dowel to go in a hole in the treadle and a high friction notch to fit the yellow bar and hold the treadle down.
the nose pieces need a notch and a bolt head / something to ensure they don't slip off the vertical strut.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Well, I have a bunch of ideas I want to try. The uppermost problem is the "lifting." It always boils down to the lifting. Here is a drawing of one of the ideas I thought about which I got from here. What do you think about this one?

Edited to add: I see that more posts had been posted. About that area for placement of whatever device: in my drawing I show the shocks (the one shock on the right side). It is mounted to a metal plate that measures 3" across by 2" wide. I thought maybe if I built something that could slip under that 3 by 2 area and kinda slip it over the shock like a glove fit, well maybe with a tad bit more room than that but not much more, a possibility? See pic "C" in drawing. There is room around that 3by2 plate except on the wheel side, only about 1" there before it would interfere with the wheel. And the plate is 4 inches above the floor.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

I can empathise with the situation.
if it is within your budget, I would store the big scooter outside
in a secure place and purchase a much smaller scooter just to
get from the outside parking area to inside the apartment.
I have a fishing friend that outfitted a big mobility scooter into his
"fishin' Buggy" that he takes to the nearby pier for fishing.
then he has a smaller one for in his house and around the neighborhood.
like WoodnThings said: this is an engineering issue. some things
just can't be done within your physical limitations and living conditions.
I see your viable options to being very limited.
best of luck and hope you find something that works for you soon.

.

.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

John,
I did just that when I used to keep my ride in storage; I bought another smaller scooter that I used to take me there. But I live on a pension (no other income) and the nearest storage facility to me (that I could reach) charged way more than other storage places. Finally, I stopped going there and just took my Palmer (the scooter I have now) home and sold the other scooter. I "LOVE" my Palmer, always meant to get one. My son bought her for me 6 mths ago and she cost just about as much as a car!! 
I actually didn't see this post as an engineering issue since I was going to make something out of wood, and probably, in the end, will do just that. "Wood" to me is woodworking. Engineering is just a term that implies figuring out how to do it, right? Carpenters do that all the time. It's all engineering.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

TomCT2 said:


> Gary - the lifters are suited - but not sure there's room 'to the sides' to get it in and jacked up....
> 
> as I drew through the tilting plate it just got more and more complicated due x,y and z, so I dumped the idea.
> actually, the lever solution you linked is the most elegant - the glitch is where to get a hold on the chassis.
> ...



In my simple dolly video, The casters are basic office chair wheels inserted into holes drilled into a 2"x 4". They are centered on the 2x4. I went down to my shop today and measured from the floor to the top it is 3-3/8" tall...The cross member that it sits under is 5/16" lower. As shown in the video I set the caster assembly on the floor and because the wheels trail as I slide the dolly under the crossmember...it allows the leading edge of the dolly to be lower as it is inserted (about 1"). when you see me push down on my handle...I am only applying about ten pounds of downward force to lift my jointer (200lbs)...next a few taps gets it under the cross brace. It does not really require a clamp to keep it there if rolling on a smooth surface. If the dolly was made taller it would require more downward pressure to do the lifting which would require more leverage (a longer bar).
https://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/126474-simply-mobile-castor-dolly.html

Note: The casters are sold at hardware stores and I think I've seen them at Walmart, and they are non marring wheels usually sold in sets of 4 or 5.
The handle hole drilled in the 2x4 in the video is 3/4" about 2" deep.

I am sure this will work well for solving this problem, and only requires mounting a flat board securely under the scooter that is parallel to the floor as a cross brace, making sure it is 5/16" shorter than the height of the dolly. I hope this helps clear up any questions. Gary.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

gmercer_48083 said:


> In my simple dolly video, The casters are basic office chair wheels inserted into holes drilled into a 2"x 4". They are centered on the 2x4. I went down to my shop today and measured from the floor to the top it is 3-3/8" tall...The cross member that it sits under is 5/16" lower. As shown in the video I set the caster assembly on the floor and because the wheels trail as I slide the dolly under the crossmember...it allows the leading edge of the dolly to be lower as it is inserted (about 1"). when you see me push down on my handle...I am only applying about ten pounds of downward force to lift my jointer (200lbs)...next a few taps gets it under the cross brace. It does not really require a clamp to keep it there if rolling on a smooth surface. If the dolly was made taller it would require more downward pressure to do the lifting which would require more leverage (a longer bar).
> https://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/126474-simply-mobile-castor-dolly.html
> 
> Note: The casters are sold at hardware stores and I think I've seen them at Walmart, and they are non marring wheels usually sold in sets of 4 or 5.
> ...



I, too, think this would work!! Sure looks simple enough except for the part where you kept your "lifter" attached to your table. No bigee, mine could stay in the bucket in the back of my scooter. Now to get it built. I no longer have power tools, just my Dremels for carving. Won't bother my kids because neither one of my sons knows a nail from a screw (ones in computers and the other is a chef). So...next on my list, a drill!!!
Gary, thank you for taking the time to help me out, here. I just turned 80 last month so don't figure on doing much building anymore after this, just hobby stuff like painting and carving. This will probably be my last make in the building department. I do really, really appreciate your kindness in sharing with me. AND this goes for all you other fellas who chimed in, here as well!!! I now feel better about keeping "Lulu"...yup, that's her name...in my apartment and for taking up so much room. Worth it now!!! I am a happy camper, now!


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Konjur1, I don't know if this will help you...But if you live near troy Michigan usa...I would come over to help you. Let me know. Gary.

You could measure the outer width of the two black frame parts (circled) from left to right. You could take two 1"x 4" boards of that width and screw them together in a L shape and bolt the L shape to those frame parts so the bottom part of the L shape is tight to the frame. It would become a permanently attached to LuLu. This would provide the support needed on LuLu, and the dolly could lift (lever upward) under it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*No modifications needed ....*

https://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Vehicle-Automotive-Moving-Dolly/dp/B000H3TSIU


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

woodnthings,

Would have liked to have seen this thing in action. I am assuming it has a built in jack? At least that is what I am guessing that long blue piece on the left is. What...you step on that lever and pump it up, that way? But don't exactly know how works. There is a 21 inch space that has to be covered or met. This looks smaller. looks smaller


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Gary,

Sure appreciate the offer, but I live in New York. I guess the 21 inches I mentioned a few times here is not the measurement you are looking for. See pic. I don't get the L shape thing you mentioned. Why L?? I'm a little dense, but sooner or later it comes into focus.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

This actually looks like it will work with no building of anything. And I can't believe it's "21" by 21'!!! How close is that!!! That's the exact space I have for it to go in. HAH!!! This is just great! I think I am going to go with this...really solves the problem perfectly. THANK YOU SO MUCH WOODnTHINGS! I mean that! Can't wait to order it.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

...and Gary, you were a big help too and a very generous guy!
Just to add, I have two very good ideas here too try. If one don't work, I can fall back on the other. However it goes, I will come back here and let you guys know how it worked out for me.
It will be awhile before I can do that because I will have to save some money for this. Just check back every now and then if you think of it. 
Again thank you all for your time.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Konjur1, The jack you are looking at looks like it doesn't actually lifts the car tire...It looks like it squeezes together to lift the tire. Find out before you order it.

This is the owners manual for the Harbor Freight version....Look at page 5 to see how it works.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Konjur1, This is what I was saying about the L shaped boards that you would have to make and fasten to LuLu, in order to have something to push up against, when inserting the dolly. Since the frame of the scooter where the shocks mount is not a flat smooth surface...you would have to create it. I only proposed the L shape as a way of attaching it to the frame (based on your photos).


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The wheel jack may not work ...*

The way the jack raises the wheel is by decreasing the distance between the black rollers, NOT by lifting them vertically. My Bad.
:|However, once the wheel is lifted, it will certainly be able to move easily in any direction. I ordered one for myself to see how they work and it will arrive around the end of next week. Amazon is very good on returns, If I decide I can't use it. I have all kinds of large heavy truck tires, so I'm thinking it will be fine for me.


However, all it would require is a curved or wedge shaped section of wood attached to the shock mounts ... for the black rollers to ride on. I do like the "low boy" design and the heavy duty casters on the wheel lift. If there is a Harbor Freight that is within driving distance they may have one in stock to try out. My Harbor Freight had none on the shelves yesterday.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

I think I will wait till you (woodnthings) get that piece, in. Still have another option, though with just a piece of wood and a jack. But will wait.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I keep trying to think of KISS solutions to this problem. So far, my thoughts for this solution would have the following properties:

* Enables the back end of the scooter to roll in any direction, so that the back end can be rolled sideways.
* Must be easy to engage.
* Must be easy to disengage for scooter riding once the scooter is pointed in the right direction.
* Must not take much time to engage or disengage.
* Must be reasonably small and light. 
* Must not extend very far to either side (tight quarters).

I came up with this basic design for a "scooter carpet dolly":

* The scooter rear wheels roll on and nest between two strips of plywood, which are slightly off the ground.
* The plywood is attached to two 4x4 posts running parallel to the scooter.
* The plywood extends past the 4x4 posts, to provide the scooter wheel supports.
* Attach two 2x4s to the top of the posts, parallel to the plywood.
* Attach plate swivel casters to the bottom of the 2x4s so that the casters lift the plywood slightly off the ground. Make the rearward casters the locking type. (The locking casters are the casters at the bottom of my drawing.)

To use:
* Position the scooter carpet dolly behind the scooter.
* Lock the casters.
* Roll the back wheels onto the scooter carpet dolly. 
* Unlock the casters.
* Roll the scooter in any direction to position it. It should be easy to swivel the back end of the scooter into position.
* Lock the casters.
* Roll the scooter off the scooter carpet dolly.

Please excuse my poor drawing skills.

P.S. This is just a basic design idea. The parts as drawn may not fit under the scooter, so a few modifications may be necessary. It is the basic design idea that I am trying to convey, to stimulate other people's thoughts. 

I believe that something like this is a simple, easy, inexpensive solution to the problem. If the locking casters don't work, then use chocks to keep it from rolling when you load or unload the scooter.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Tool, I think your concept is sound...but we don't know what clearance is under the scooter in order to make it doable.

On another note I looked online and saw a scissor lift for motorcycles and did find one with swivel casters that sat collapsed down to 4-1/2" and sold at Home Depot.com. But it was not wide enough (around 15") to fit under his 21" frame supports on the scooter.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

gmercer_48083 said:


> Tool, I think your concept is sound...but we don't know what clearance is under the scooter in order to make it doable.
> 
> On another note I looked online and saw a scissor lift for motorcycles and did find one with swivel casters that sat collapsed down to 4-1/2" and sold at Home Depot.com. But it was not wide enough (around 15") to fit under his 21" frame supports on the scooter.


I looked at the photos. I called the Palmer Scooter company to ask if their scooters had reverse (they do!) and learned that they can handle uneven pavement. I thought up the design while I was in the shower this morning. After I posted my drawing and the text, I looked at the photo again and realized that it may not fit as drawn, so I added the "P.S." weasel words at the end to say that some design adjustments may be needed to fit under the seat of the scooter. In addition, I would want a few thin pieces of scrap on hand as shims to adjust the plywood height above the floor. 

It would take me less than an hour to build. I would make it "small" and "thin" to keep the weight and storage needs down, but use thick wood appropriately for strength to support the plywood "cradle", the casters, and weight of the scooter.

When I first saw the thread, I looked at lever lift designs. I have a very heavy metal one for a motorcycle repair stand (Handy Lift). The wheel axle serves as the fulcrum. You press down on the long handle, and the small protrusion raises the lift with the heavy motorcycle on it. It allows you to wheel it around despite the extreme weight (well over 1000 pounds). The reason I rejected this design is the space required to operate the long handle. A shorter handle might be viable, but then @konjur1 would have had to bend over or be on his/her knees while the scooter was raised and moved. One advantage I saw for this design was reduced storage requirements, but I rejected it for other reasons.

Another design I considered and abandoned was some type of jack lift, like the motorcycle scissors lift you suggested. It would have a plywood base with casters, a screw post, and a plywood platform on top. Roll the gadget under the back of the scooter, and then give it a few turns to raise the post and lift the back of the scooter. A rubber pad on top might hold it against the scooter bottom as you rotate the caster base to raise it; something like that. I abandoned that idea. It was too complex. 

The "scooter carpet dolly" is dead simple. It has no moving parts, other than the casters. It is cheap and easy to design, build, and operate, and it meets all the requirements well. It is relatively small, relatively light, and easy to move. It doesn't need additional space around the scooter when it is in use. 

I believe that my design is viable and may be the simplest and best solution. I hope that @konjur1 looks at my crude drawing and gives the basic design due consideration. 

My true hope is that someone here can take my design and run with it, or suggest something better.

P.S. Does everybody "get" the design? The scooter wheels rest in the "cradle" gap between the plywood boards on each side. The dolly "frame" does not have to be actual 4x4s and 2x4s; they are examples of the "beefiness" needed for strength to support the weight of the scooter, and sort-of, relative size. 

I can think of easy refinements, like:
* Chamfering (angle) the end of the plywood as a short "ramp" to make it easier to push or back the scooter onto the dolly.
* Change the design so that the plywood strips are somewhat behind the middle of the dolly, so that the dolly is less likely to move when you roll the scooter onto it. 
* Etc.

Do I need to make a better drawing?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A dolly with a ramp .....*

Going back to the drawing board, I came up with this idea. 

4 swivel casters on a "U" shaped frame
A ramp on hinges that lowers to the floor
The scooter is powered up the ramp to the flat portion where it is stopped by a block
All the weight of the rear tires is now on the 4 casters and the dolly.
The dolly has a "wide stance" for safety, but can be moved in any direction.
​


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> Going back to the drawing board, I came up with this idea.
> 
> 4 swivel casters on a "U" shaped frame
> A ramp on hinges that lowers to the floor
> ...


Oooh! Oooh! I like it. Brilliant! 

I like it and would recommend your design over my original proposal. Here are two "nit" comments. I am not criticizing, just trying to help with incremental improvements.

* Do you think your dolly can be built strong enough with a fixed ramp, just above the floor? It might be better if @konjur1 did not have to raise and lock the ramp in place after loading the scooter. You could eliminate the hinges, too. 

* One concern of mine is that the apartment and hallway space may be so tight that we can't make the dolly much wider than the scooter. Would you consider bringing the casters inside the scooter wheels and putting the two ramps on the outside of your dolly? The inside edges of the dolly platform would help keep the scooter aligned as it backs up the two ramps. That way, your dolly would be narrower, to make maneuvering the scooter around the hallways easier.

Great idea. Let me know what you think of my suggested improvements. Feel free to reject them both.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

gmercer_48083 said:


> Tool, I think your concept is sound...but we don't know what clearance is under the scooter in order to make it doable.
> 
> On another note I looked online and saw a scissor lift for motorcycles and did find one with swivel casters that sat collapsed down to 4-1/2" and sold at Home Depot.com. But it was not wide enough (around 15") to fit under his 21" frame supports on the scooter.




Wouldn't that be the 4" I spoke about? Just below plate that holds the shocks? That is the lowest point where there is a minimal clearance of 4" from floor to plate.

I am going to take more pictures of the scooter when it is actually in the doorway and coming out a little bit, then you will see what clearance there is all around it...hold on.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

What about a small "wedge shaped" dolly with 4 wheels: 2 shorter wheels on one end and 2 taller wheels on the other end, and just kicking her under the back of the scooter naturally with the small end heading in, first, and the taller end facing out. Should go since one end would be lower than the other end. To get her out again, maybe thinking drill a hole in the cross piece on the end with the taller wheels and attaching a rope there so I could give a yank and pull it out that way. Some good ideas here, though!! Like they say many heads are better than one.

I will post more pics showing the scooter in the doorway and coming out a little so you can see the cleanance around the scooter. I will be taking Lulu out today as it is promising to turn out to be a nice day, but not till after noon when it will be a little warmer. I will take the pictures, then. You guys are great and very patient, too.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*one more ciritical dimension needed*



Tool Agnostic said:


> Oooh! Oooh! I like it. Brilliant!
> 
> I like it and would recommend your design over my original proposal. Here are two "nit" comments. I am not criticizing, just trying to help with incremental improvements.
> 
> ...





WE need the overall width of LuLu to the outside of the tires in order to ascertain whether or not the casters need to be inboard OR can be outboard and still fit within the doorway.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

After sleeping on it overnight, I am back to my original design. I like the elegance of @woodnthings proposal, but I believe that my design is both easier to make and avoids the question about how far it extends on the sides of the scooter. Furthermore, my design does not raise the back the scooter much. If the scooter "falls off", nothing really happens. You can't damage the scooter because the entire dolly is lower than the bottom of the scooter. There is little chance you would get trapped in the hallway with a half-tilted scooter. 

Here is a newer drawing. I replaced the 2x4s with plywood, and replaced the 4x4s with "square post" because it should be sized to fit under the scooter.

I would use plate casters screwed into the plywood top. Not shown very well are shims between the casters and the plywood top to adjust the height to make it "just right."

I would assemble it with wood glue, with screws to clamp it. I would try it without the "stop block strips" because I don't think they are necessary and it simplifies construction. 

(Variant: Replace the plywood strips with a wider single plywood strip, and add stop blocks to the back of the strips. I don't like this as well, but it may be easier.)

P.S. If you are concerned about strength and rigidity, you could glue a "square post" along each plywood strip, glued (sandwiched) between the strip and the plywood top. It would add weight, but make it very strong and rigid.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> WE need the overall width of LuLu to the outside of the tires in order to ascertain whether or not the casters need to be inboard OR can be outboard and still fit within the doorway. [photos, see above]


If you look at the images above:

The practical width of the doorway is 32.5 inches. The width of the scooter between the L-brackets is 21 inches. The difference is 11.5 inches, or less than 6 inches between the inside of an L-bracket and the doorframe. It is going to be a very tight fit. 

I imported the photo into a graphic editor and then drew scaled lines between the L-brackets and between the wheels. The outside-wheel-to-outside-wheel width that I calculated is much larger than the 32.5 inches that we know the scooter fits. Nice try to get a measurement, but it didn't work. It does reaffirm my assumption that we have very little space outside the rear wheels of the scooter.

I still believe that my proposed design is the simplest and best solution.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Okay, I just got out of the shower with another idea:

* Buy one of those cheap Harbor Freight 12 x 18 inch carpet dollies. It should fit between the L-brackets. I assume that it is lower than the motor.
* Glue blocks underneath it. Use screws as clamps.
* Glue plywood or boards under the blocks, extending out far enough for the scooter wheels. Use screws as clamps.
* Attach stop blocks to the top of the plywood. 
* Optional: Add inner guide strips or blocks to help keep the wheels straight as they back up onto the plywood.
* Done.

https://www.harborfreight.com/18-in-x-12-in-1000-lbs-capacity-hardwood-dolly-63098.html

To use:

* Put a 2x4 behind the dolly casters to stop it from rolling.
* Back the scooter onto the plywood until it hits the stop blocks.
* Roll the scooter through the hallways.
* Put the 2x4 in front of the dolly casters.
* Drive the scooter off.

Does @konjur1 live near a Harbor Freight or a store that sells a cheap 12x18 carpet dolly?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Keeping it more simple .....*

A piece of 1/2" plywood with these "glider/slider" pads under the tires
to directly support the weight should work on a smooth surface in the hallway:
https://www.amazon.com/16-Pack-Reusable-Furniture-Sliders-Sliders-Sunsir/dp/B01N3573QD


Another choice that would be low to the floor are these, but more work is required to countersink them in from the bottom to keep the height as low as possible:










https://www.rockler.com/ball-bearin...lRUHk495k26gmPShznZ0efrOZv0suvScaAobeEALw_wcB


The idea is to have the scooter back onto the plywood under power, no jack required. Then a shove in the desired direction should allow it to move enough to maneuver it into the doorway. Then drive it off the plywood. A metal door stop would create a slight ramp to help get it backed on, or bevel the leading edge ... or even both edges making it non-directional. :vs_cool:


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Here are more pictures showing Lulu just in the doorway. I had put her fully into my apartment but forgot to take the pictures so I backed her out again so I could take the pictures (just came back from the stores...bucket loaded up). First picture shows her just barely in the doorway. Hasn't passed the floor doorway plate, yet. 2nd picture shows a sideways shot of her after I pulled her out about a foot. 3rd and 4th pictures show the left and right sides of the wheels and how close they are to the doorway's sides. That 2nd shot also shows my neighbor's door opened. She let me take the pictures from inside her doorway.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

<<<*The idea is to have the scooter back onto the plywood under power*, no jack required. Then a shove in the desired direction should allow it to move enough to maneuver it into the doorway. Then drive it off the plywood. A metal door stop would create a slight ramp to help get it backed on, or bevel the leading edge ... or even both edges making it non-directional. :vs_cool:[/QUOTE]>>>

Just to say, Lulu is a very powerful machine, well built and very quick to respond. I would not want to back her in under power using the "reverse" button (darn buttons), which is the only way to move her in reverse, while under power or not. Like I said, she responds on a dime. What Palmer did (and I really hate it) is they put yet another button on her dash board called the "PUSH" button. The push button also only works under power. You use it ONLY when there is a need to push the scooter for whatever reason. I use it all the time when getting the trike in and out of my apartment. On the road, I have to remember to push it again so the trike will move again, under power. When the power is ON or OFF...this scooter isn't going nowhere!!! Not frontwards or backwards!! It's a pain in the neck safety feature if you ask me. The only way she will move is under power and even then, she won't go in reverse until you hit the reverse button. Then you have to hit it again to go forward. The main reason for the safety feature is so that the trike won't roll when on an incline...and believe me, she won't! Let me clarify again, this trike must always be under power to move her in ANY direction which is ok if you are riding around outside, but when you have to do a delicate maneuver like I have to when working in such a confined space like the hallway, I much prefer using the "PUSH" button. When the push button is pressed...the trike will not operate forwards as the throttle is cut off, and all you CAN do is actually push the bike with your hands to move her. She IS fairly easy to push, too. Though wouldn't want to do it uphill. So, I will only use the push button when backing her in or out of my apartment, I would never use the throttle, that darn thing is way too sensitive.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

all similar to the classic tilt-plate I mentioned earlier. here's the sketch -








the front caster has to be locked or the plate will slide away. there is a possibility that a high friction lead edge and very low angle might work in this case. the front casters will be inside and near under the motor - not accessible to lock.
a rope/pulley system could solve that problem.

the casters cannot be outboard or it will not go through the door. 

the caster mounts must avoid the interference points around the motor.
the ball casters provide low profile but may break up the block tile on the floor with the point loading.

in a plate design, the holes have to allow the casters to swivel 360' 

my guess is about 100 lbs on each rear wheel - whatever overhangs the support from the casters must not sag/break.
there was mention of 'carrying the lift around in the cargo box' - not sure why this is necessary - but that severely restricts the size.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

If you guys come up with a viable solution you all like, I will trust in that one. Sounds like you all know what you are talking about and like I said, I trust that.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Just got another idea. What about this....?

Look at my drawing on the 2nd page. See drawing C". What about if I made TWO of those (with 2 swivel wheels on each one), and make one for each wheel so that it fit not-too-snug around the wheel, then pick up a small jack...pump up the trike and kick those bad boys under each wheel no? Well, it sounded good...now not so much.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*So, no "under power" moving .....*



konjur1 said:


> <<<*The idea is to have the scooter back onto the plywood under power*, no jack required. Then a shove in the desired direction should allow it to move enough to maneuver it into the doorway. Then drive it off the plywood. A metal door stop would create a slight ramp to help get it backed on, or bevel the leading edge ... or even both edges making it non-directional. :vs_cool:


>>>

Just to say, Lulu is a very powerful machine, well built and very quick to respond. I would not want to back her in under power using the "reverse" button (darn buttons), which is the only way to move her in reverse, while under power or not. Like I said, she responds on a dime. What Palmer did (and I really hate it) is they put yet another button on her dash board called the "PUSH" button. The push button also only works under power. You use it ONLY when there is a need to push the scooter for whatever reason. I use it all the time when getting the trike in and out of my apartment. On the road, I have to remember to push it again so the trike will move again, under power. When the power is ON or OFF...this scooter isn't going nowhere!!! Not frontwards or backwards!! It's a pain in the neck safety feature if you ask me. The only way she will move is under power and even then, she won't go in reverse until you hit the reverse button. Then you have to hit it again to go forward. The main reason for the safety feature is so that the trike won't roll when on an incline...and believe me, she won't! Let me clarify again, this trike must always be under power to move her in ANY direction which is ok if you are riding around outside, but when you have to do a delicate maneuver like I have to when working in such a confined space like the hallway, I much prefer using the "PUSH" button. When the push button is pressed...the trike will not operate forwards as the throttle is cut off, and all you CAN do is actually push the bike with your hands to move her. She IS fairly easy to push, too. Though wouldn't want to do it uphill. So, I will only use the push button when backing her in or out of my apartment, I would never use the throttle, that darn thing is way too sensitive.[/QUOTE]


In order for you to move it, the "PUSH" button is IN, but the wheels are not powered .... right? It's a "neutral" in the gear train ... right?
OK then, it's either a jack system OR a low angle ramp such that you can push it up yourself without assistance .... right?


I would like to avoid the jack if possible ..... heavy, cumbersome, awkward, expensive ..... :|
I am curious about the manueverability being "more better" if you back it into your doorway. I do know that you can back a vehicle into a space far easier than you can pull into ...... based on 60 years of driving experience. That would solve the whole issue IF that's the case....? Obviously, you would drive past the doorway, then begin your turn backing up, not under power. By pulling into the doorway, the scooter's large turning radius and the very tight doorway limits the maneuverability. 



Lacking any other low cost, low elevation approach at this point, I would like to know IF one sliding pad as suggested above would allow the scooter to be manually pushed sideways enough to get it into the doorway...... ? :vs_cool:


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Woodnthings, 

Yes, the push button is a kind of neutral button. 
I should mention that there are lights on the handlebars (on ether side) that juts out to the sides. They kinda have a tendency to scrape along the door as I am backing out so I am really careful to watch out for that when taking her out. I have had other scooters before this one and they were smaller, too, but they were also just as wide (thinking need to be for better balance for us seniors), and I scratched the heck out of the fenders on those other scooters, a lot. Finally just gave up altogether trying to get the right scooter. Then my son goes and buys me this one. He knew I always wanted a Palmer. Guess he forgot that was when I had a house, not an efficiency apartment. When I get some other tools, I'm going to try a bunch of things. I will post if I hit on a good one. 
Still waiting to hear how that other gizmo works out, but somebody here said he thought it only went under sideway.

...and yes, when push button is activated the wheels are not powered but they will move freely when you push the trike by hand. In my opinion, they could've left that push thing out, period. Sometimes it interferes with starting the trike up again under electric power. I keep forgetting to hit the button again!!! Darn push button!!

Also let me add, you fellas don't have to keep bothering yourselves with this. You have given me a bunch of great ideas, here. And yes, I know some hit some sort of a snag, but between all of them...I KNOW the answer is in there and I am going to work at it till I find it. Thank you all very, very much! I will be posting what worked for me when I do!


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I have given all I can, and probably more than I should have. I have seen many great ideas from others, and want to acknowledge everyone's terrific effort and cooperation. Allow me to remind everyone:

* Whatever solution you propose, it must not be wider than the scooter rear wheels by more than fractions of an inch. Otherwise, it won't fit through the doorway. 

* Whatever solution you propose, it must easily ride over the ramps and bumps. 

Best wishes and good luck!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Answer this question ......*

Quote:
I am curious about the manueverability being "more better" if you back it into your doorway. I do know that you can back a vehicle into a space far easier than you can pull into ...... based on 60 years of driving experience. That would solve the whole issue IF that's the case....? Obviously, you would drive past the doorway, then begin your turn backing up, not under power. By pulling into the doorway, the scooter's large turning radius and the very tight doorway limits the maneuverability. 



It may be this simple. I have solved more design problems by inverting, reversing, flipping, etc. than I can remember. The answer is sometimes staring us in the face, but we can't see it. :nerd2:


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Okay, I just got out of the shower with another idea:
> 
> * Buy one of those cheap Harbor Freight 12 x 18 inch carpet dollies. It should fit between the L-brackets. I assume that it is lower than the motor.
> * Glue blocks underneath it. Use screws as clamps.
> ...


I have the dolly from harbor freight...so I measured it. (shown without casters) You can work out your thoughts from this. The measurements are with carpet removed and are accurate.
The file drawn in Sketchup


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

gmercer_48083 said:


> I have the dolly from harbor freight...so I measured it. (shown without casters) You can work out your thoughts from this. The measurements are with carpet removed and are accurate.
> The file drawn in Sketchup


Yup. Take a Harbor Freight carpet dolly. Hang a couple blocks underneath. Hang a "platform" from the blocks. Done. 

The platform can be wider than the blocks, but must avoid the caster "swivel zone".


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Nearest Harbor Freight to me is a 20 minute ride by car. My scooter won't go that far. Should have bought the better batteries for her. Anyway can order what I need on line. I know you guys will be curious to see how this pans out and I promise I will let you know. Thank you all for your time and input!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Before you buy anything .....*

Please answer my question posted above:


Can you back the scooter into the doorway easier than pulling it in, which requires sliding it sideways? IF YES, no need to buy anything!


This is why parallel parking a car is the approved method rather than pulling into the parking space. You just can't do it if the vehicle is very long and the space is limited. :| If you will forgive the term....it's all about the "rear end" and getting it into position by using the steering wheel(s) at the front. The very same thing applies to your scooter. Don't make me fly over there are give you driving lessons.....
:wink:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*My wheel jack arrived*

The wheel jack I recommended above came today and it's a beast! I was correct in thinking how it worked by moving the rollers together horizontally, rather than lifting them vertically, so it wouldn't work for this application as a "no modification" solution. 



In addition, I have asked a question of the OP two times now, with no response. This answer to this question may negate all mechanical solutions to the issue, but we have no answer thus far..... see the post above. :|


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Actually, I did reply! But it didn't go thru.Which I now just noticed. I know I clicked on submit when I finished typing. I think I know what happened, I wasn't signed in. That last time I just answered your question and left the web site immediately because the phone was ringing. I remember it was a lengthy reply. I'll shorten it.

No, never went in frontwards because I figured getting it out with rear gong out first was naturally the way it would work for going in. But as soon as the weather is better I will try going in fontwards.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*which end is the "front" ...?*



woodnthings said:


> Please answer my question posted above:
> 
> * Can you back the scooter into the doorway easier than pulling it in, which requires sliding it sideways? IF YES, no need to buy anything*!


 





konjur1 said:


> *No, never went in frontwards* because I figured getting it out with rear gong out first was naturally the way it would work for going in. But as soon as the weather is better I will try going in fontwards.





I asked if you had tried "backing it in" ..... large wheels first, steering wheel last. I never even used the word "frontwards".
So, you can see why I just might be totally confused .... :|


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Konjur1, I have been thinking about this for a while, and haven't forgot about your problem. I have drawn a sketch to illustrate what I think will work. It uses the harbor freight 12'x 18" dolly wheels. The wheels on that dolly would be removed from the dolly and mounted to a 3/4" plywood that is 38" in length. On top of the plywood you fasten 2"x 2"s for the guides and the stop. to use it...insert the plywood against the rear tires and push/drive on. As you pass the centerline of the first set of casters...the dolly will tip and set itself level on all 4 casters. The guide rails should be about 1/2" narrower than the width of the inside tire measurement to account for your added weight (tire bulge).

I used the harbor freight dolly for this because it is cheap, comes with the fasteners, has swivel castors, and will sit low enough for this to work.
If you provide me with the inside tire to tire measurments...I will provide you with a more detailed drawing.

There is one concern I have...that is are both rear tires drive wheels...or only one? I wouldn't want it to twist the dolly as it is powered up the ramp.

(photos: Left Loaded, Right Unloaded)


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

woodnthings said:


> I asked if you had tried "backing it in" ..... large wheels first, steering wheel last. I never even used the word "frontwards".
> So, you can see why I just might be totally confused .... :|





I AM sorry, you only got confused because of my poor way of explaining things. I get confused all the time and frankly am pretty sick and tired of it. I was confused when I replied to you that last time. I thought about it, then said to myself, "wait a minute!" Then I got up, grabbed Lulu and went thru the entire motions of taking her in and out of the apartment but this time watching very carefully what I was doing. So sorry to say I was wrong about how I get her back into the apartment. I told you I never go in frontwards, meaning handlebar first... WRONG!!!! Making her go in handlebar first is the ONLY way I can get her into the apartment. Seems to me that I can't do it any other way. If I try to BACK her in, I can't squeeze pass the doorway (no room for me) to get to the back end to re-position it, the handlebar would be in my way, can't climb over it. But I CAN climb over the bucket to reach the handlebars when backing her OUT the apartment....constantly correcting where the front wheel is heading. By the way, just like the doorway itself is limiting room to maneuver...there is a WALL directly to the right in back of the door in my apartment. You can't see it because the opened door is blocking it. That wall falls away after about 6 feet. But there is just enough of it to create a narrow 6ft long hallway right there in back of the door inside my apartment. Then the hallway ends and opens up into this one large room. Again...curtails maneuverability. So I have little room to maneuver both INSIDE and OUTSIDE my apartment.

You know, you would think that in this day and age of constant new discoveries...somebody'd invented something that can slip under a tire (or back over it) so tires could easily be made to move sideways. There are a whole heckuva lot of seniors like me who are cramped into these stupid tiny efficiency apartments who would sure appreciate the product. Ever try to push a wheelchair sideways if you ain't in it? Where there's seniors there's likely to be rubber for Pete's sake. Seniors put tennis balls on the feet of walkers!! No one bothers to come up with better solutions for seniors. Somebody'd make a ton of money if they did. Right now, I'm mad at myself because for sure now I've confused you beyond repair!

What about a small rug? Just big enough to fit under the back wheels. Wouldn't it glide sideways with the weight of the trike on it to sort've drag it along? Or a towel?? ....sigh, I'm tired.


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

gmercer_48083 said:


> Konjur1, I have been thinking about this for a while, and haven't forgot about your problem. I have drawn a sketch to illustrate what I think will work. It uses the harbor freight 12'x 18" dolly wheels. The wheels on that dolly would be removed from the dolly and mounted to a 3/4" plywood that is 38" in length. On top of the plywood you fasten 2"x 2"s for the guides and the stop. to use it...insert the plywood against the rear tires and push/drive on. As you pass the centerline of the first set of casters...the dolly will tip and set itself level on all 4 casters. The guide rails should be about 1/2" narrower than the width of the inside tire measurement to account for your added weight (tire bulge).
> 
> I used the harbor freight dolly for this because it is cheap, comes with the fasteners, has swivel castors, and will sit low enough for this to work.
> If you provide me with the inside tire to tire measurments...I will provide you with a more detailed drawing.
> ...


The inside measurement from wheel to wheel is 23" ...whether both back wheels are drive wheels or just the one?...I would say they are both drive wheels; she just feels like she has a lot of drive power behind her ...very strong get up and go. But tomorrow, I will look for her manual (I looked just now but can't find it) again, and I will let you know for sure, then. 
Thank you!


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Ok, found my manual. Yup, I was right, both wheels are drive wheels.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Konjur1, Here is the layout plans to make the tilting dolly for LuLu. The plans are based on the 12"x 18" 4 wheel dolly from harbor freight. You would remove the casters from the dolly...and since the bolts are the wrong length, you would need to buy 1/4"x 1-1/2" carriage bolts and nuts (Qty 16 of each). The plywood is 3/4"x 27"x 38". Fasten the casters to the bottom before you add the rails to the top. After the casters are mounted, you can add the rails to the top using 2" wood screws (screw from the bottom through the plywood into the rails). The rails are made from 2x2s (actual 1-1/2"x 1-1/2") 35" long (2 required), and the stop (also made from 2x2) is 27" long.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

Konjur1, If you decide to make the dolly...you can buy a plywood handy panel (4'x 4') at home depot or lowes and have them cut it to 27"x 38" for you. You may be able to have them cut the 2x2s to length also. Get your Kids involved...they owe you that much I'm sure.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*No problem ....*



konjur1 said:


> I AM sorry, you only got confused because of my poor way of explaining things. I get confused all the time and frankly am pretty sick and tired of it. I was confused when I replied to you that last time. I thought about it, then said to myself, "wait a minute!" Then I got up, grabbed Lulu and went thru the entire motions of taking her in and out of the apartment but this time watching very carefully what I was doing. So sorry to say I was wrong about how I get her back into the apartment. I told you I never go in frontwards, meaning handlebar first... WRONG!!!! Making her go in handlebar first is the ONLY way I can get her into the apartment. Seems to me that I can't do it any other way. If I try to BACK her in, I can't squeeze pass the doorway (no room for me) to get to the back end to re-position it, the handlebar would be in my way, can't climb over it. But I CAN climb over the bucket to reach the handlebars when backing her OUT the apartment....constantly correcting where the front wheel is heading. By the way, just like the doorway itself is limiting room to maneuver...there is a WALL directly to the right in back of the door in my apartment. You can't see it because the opened door is blocking it. That wall falls away after about 6 feet. But there is just enough of it to create a narrow 6ft long hallway right there in back of the door inside my apartment. Then the hallway ends and opens up into this one large room. Again...curtails maneuverability. So I have little room to maneuver both INSIDE and OUTSIDE my apartment.
> 
> *You know, you would think that in this day and age of constant new discoveries...somebody'd invented something that can slip under a tire (or back over it) so tires could easily be made to move sideways. There are a whole heckuva lot of seniors like me who are cramped into these stupid tiny efficiency apartments who would sure appreciate the product. Ever try to push a wheelchair sideways if you ain't in it? Where there's seniors there's likely to be rubber for Pete's sake. Seniors put tennis balls on the feet of walkers!! No one bothers to come up with better solutions for seniors. Somebody'd make a ton of money if they did. Right now, I'm mad at myself because for sure now I've confused you beyond repair!*
> 
> *What about a small rug? Just big enough to fit under the back wheels. Wouldn't it glide sideways with the weight of the trike on it to sort've drag it along? Or a towel?? *....sigh, I'm tired.



They have them! Here's what they are, either for carpet or hard floors:
https://www.amazon.com/Furniture-Sl...+slider+pads&qid=1555524466&s=gateway&sr=8-15

A 1/2" plywood piece that's 1" in from the doorway with a bevel on the front edge to make rolling it up easier without using "power" would work, since it would be very low off the ground.... no casters.


Your towel idea would be so easy to try,... Go For it using a beach towel since they are longer and have good nap? are thicker.. Some towels have rope handles sewn in which would work good.
https://www.amazon.com/Exfoliating-...id=1555526488&rnid=2941120011&s=beauty&sr=1-5



As to which way it "goes in" ...and I say this "in theory", since obviously, I'm not there:
I maintain that if you drive forward, past your doorway, open the door and then get behind it and pull it towards the opening is how I would start. You can continue to pull it into the doorway until that's no longer possible with the wheels turned hard left. The back end should now be started into the opening, and in far enough to get around the front and push it the rest of the way in... 

Having worked with motorcycles and bicycles all my life, I know that handlebars can be rotated, shortened, replaced, reconfigured which may help with your width constraints. I don't know if that's a reasonable alternative for you?


:vs_cool:


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## konjur1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Oh nooooh, you guys are NOT going to believe this!!! Problem solved!!!!! Just for the heckuva it, I decided to try the "towel" thing to see if it would work, thinking there was no way in Hades it was going to. I grabbed this big old tired looking towel (really thick nap to it) and placed it just outside the doorway. When I got Lulu's back wheels on it, I took a deep breath and gave her a push sideways. To my stunned surprised she moved away from me like she was on air!!!!I CAN NOT believe it worked! I mean...is this a joke?? I've been racking my brains, and you guys have been racking yours, drawing up all sorts of possibilities only to be beat by an old under-the-sink, earmarked for rags, towel? Who was it that said something like "the answer was staring us in the face but that we just couldn't see it?" A-maz-ing...!!!

Well, I want to thank you guys for your work and efforts, and am so sorry for having taken up so much of your valuable time which I KNOW had to be considerable if you are anything like me; I don't give up on a problem till I solve it and will keep at it till I see the new day sun staring me in the face. That flippant remark I said when I suggested using a towel yesterday, was just that - an over the shoulder last minute sarcasm. I gave it no more thought than that. Goes to show you.

Gee, I kinda hate to say "goodbye" to you guys but I don't do much wood working no more, so guess I won't be back this way after this. Well, maybe a time or two just to see what you guys are up to. I really can't thank you enough, though. And I sincerely appreciated your unwavering patience with me, more than you know. 

Most sincerely,
Goodbye, good life and good woodworkin'!!!

konjur


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The simple solution, reduce the friction ....*



woodnthings said:


> A piece of 1/2" plywood with these "glider/slider" pads under the tires
> to directly support the weight should work on a smooth surface in the hallway:
> https://www.amazon.com/16-Pack-Reusable-Furniture-Sliders-Sliders-Sunsir/dp/B01N3573QD
> 
> :vs_cool:





woodnthings said:


> They have them! Here's what they are, either for carpet or hard floors:
> https://www.amazon.com/Furniture-Sl...+slider+pads&qid=1555524466&s=gateway&sr=8-15
> 
> A 1/2" plywood piece that's 1" in from the doorway with a bevel on the front edge to make rolling it up easier without using "power" would work, since it would be very low off the ground.... no casters.
> ...





konjur1 said:


> Oh nooooh, you guys are NOT going to believe this!!! Problem solved!!!!! Just for the heckuva it, I decided to try the "towel" thing to see if it would work, thinking there was no way in Hades it was going to. *I grabbed this big old tired looking towel (really thick nap to it) and placed it just outside the doorway. When I got Lulu's back wheels on it, I took a deep breath and gave her a push sideways. To my stunned surprised she moved away from me like she was on air!!!!I CAN NOT believe it worked! I mean...is this a joke??* I've been racking my brains, and you guys have been racking yours, drawing up all sorts of possibilities only to be beat by an old under-the-sink, earmarked for rags, towel? Who was it that said something like "the answer was staring us in the face but that we just couldn't see it?" A-maz-ing...!!!
> 
> Well, I want to thank you guys for your work and efforts, and am so sorry for having taken up so much of your valuable time which I KNOW had to be considerable if you are anything like me; I don't give up on a problem till I solve it and will keep at it till I see the new day sun staring me in the face. That flippant remark I said when I suggested using a towel yesterday, was just that - an over the shoulder last minute sarcasm. I gave it no more thought than that. Goes to show you.
> 
> ...



It really was just a simple solution afterall AND a folded towel is quite portable as well. Personally, I enjoyed the challenge and was glad to offer my suggestion! Good Luck and Best Wishes. :smile2:


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