# choosing a scrub plane (german planes expert needed)



## s7nf (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm in the process of buying planes. And I'm thinking that I should buy a cheap scrup plane, and have the rest of the money for some nice new jack plane. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So I'm buying from the german ebay. The scrub plane is called there a schrupphobel.

I found this one:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/1x-Famos-Han...n_Heimwerker_Handwerkzeug&hash=item53f920dfd6

Is this even scrub plane? The blade doesn't seem curved. Anyone recognize the company BW Bundeswehr (HX1). And What does HX1 mean?


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

I bought a cheap harbor freight plane and turned it into a scrub plane. $10. Works great.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

> "I bought a cheap harbor freight plane and turned it into a scrub plane. $10. Works great."


It seems by reading the reviews of the hand plane that HF sells that is a very popular thing to do.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

MasterSplinter said:


> I bought a cheap harbor freight plane and turned it into a scrub plane. $10. Works great.


I purchased one for another forum member, modified the blade to work as a scrub plane, then sent it to the forum member. 

This was the email I received.

"_The scrub plane is awesome.it self destructed the first 40 seconds, the lever cap and blade flew off! But I swapped the blade with my other No 33 and she works like a dream. It cut my surface scrubbing time in half easily! Thanks again!_"

I do not know how often this happens. I have to say I did not like the quality of manufacture of the plane. The best parts of the plane were the knob and tote.

One of the adjustment nuts did not fit into the slots in the blade. I had to bend the screw to get a decent contact.

For the $10 price, I feel a case of you get what you pay for - perhaps less.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

> I purchased one for another forum member, modified the blade to work as a scrub plane, then sent it to the forum member.


How exactly does one modify the blade to become a scrubber blade?

I am guessing a grinding wheel is involved somewhere...


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

I`m not an expert on German wooden planes but that does not look like what you are looking for.Sometimes the people selling the tools don't know what they are.

The brand name of the one you are looking at is Famos and it is an ex Germany army issue .

This link looks more like what you are looking for good luck. Billy 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251058605879?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

grunkle stan said:


> how exactly does one modify the blade to become a scrubber blade?
> 
> I am guessing a grinding wheel is involved somewhere...


I think using the HF 33 plane may have been made popular by a video posted by Stumpy Nubs.

You can use a grinder. I used a Worksharp 3000 and 100 grit disc. It does not take long.

I decided on the curve, I think it was 1/8in less at either end. I marked this on green masking tape, including the centre line of the blade.

I made a wooden template for the curve out of a piece of scrap drew the curve and sanded on my 12in disc sander. I then clamped the blade to the template and used the Worksharp bar against the edge of the wooden template and rocked back and forth until I got the shape. At this point I was not concentrating on the angle.









This was the blade once I had sharpened to the desired curve.









 I am not a fan of HF in general, and for the record, I would not recommend this plane to others. Too much variation in quality. I really do not like the adjustment mechanism.

When I installed the blade, I then found I needed to file a curve on the lever cap so the corners would not get in the way. The initial bevel on the blade was too steep, about 45 deg which is the bedding angle of the frog. I re-sharpened to about 35 deg by re-clamping to the wooden template and adjusting the protrusion to get the desired angle. Then more back and forth. Easier since the curve was established, just modifying the bevel.

Then you need to test to determine how deep to set the blade. I adjusted to be exposing perhaps 1/3rd of the blade. Max protrusion is about 1 64in in the middle.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

s7nf said:


> I'm in the process of buying planes. And I'm thinking that I should buy a cheap scrup plane, and have the rest of the money for some nice new jack plane. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> So I'm buying from the german ebay. The scrub plane is called there a schrupphobel.
> 
> ...


It's not a scrub. The iron is far too wide. The incorrect listing and the style of the plane what's throwing you a curve ball.

The plane listed there is a smoothing plane.

ECE makes a decent horned scrub if you are wanting to keep it traditional. I've attached a picture of a vintage horned scrub in our collection however I don't recall the maker for it.

Most scrubs, notice I say most, have irons no wider than 1-1/2". 

To alleviate the confusion, for the new guys, on this topic, yet again: A scrub and a fore plane perform the same job and in essentially the same technique. However there is an appreciable difference between a fore plane and a scrub plane. ie - the horrible freight franken planes y'all are referring to are not scrubs, they would be classified as a fore plane.

I blame Stanley for screwing up the nomenclatures with their No 40 Scrub (yes it's technically a scrub) and their useless No 6 "Fore plane" which is technically a small jointer.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I blame Stanley for screwing up the nomenclatures with their No 40 Scrub (yes it's technically a scrub) and their useless No 6 "Fore plane" which is technically a small jointer.


I have to say I do not find my No. 6 "useless".

I have both No. 6 and No. 7. They share the same blade just different casting lengths.

I find the smaller No. 6 easier to use due to being shorter and therefore lighter, so it tends to be picked up more than the No. 7.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> I have to say I do not find my No. 6 "useless".
> 
> I have both No. 6 and No. 7. They share the same blade just different casting lengths.
> 
> I find the smaller No. 6 easier to use due to being shorter and therefore lighter, so it tends to be picked up more than the No. 7.


You should know by now not to take me for 100% serious all the time. The Number 6 is useless as a Fore Plane... 

As for a jointer - it's not often that I'll use anything but an 8. That said - small boards get small planes & big slabs get big planes... in terms of jointing. 

I think there is an equation out there concerning body mass x height x (slab incub x (some derivative) = Jointer size. :laughing: use a different derivative for smoother size. Yes, I prefer a 4-1/2" smoother.


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

The only reason I mentioned harbor freight because he wanted something cheap. If you try to get a Stanley scrub you will be paying a lot of money. Or I guess you could get a cheap 5 and modify it.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

MasterSplinter said:


> The only reason I mentioned harbor freight because he wanted something cheap. If you try to get a Stanley scrub you will be paying a lot of money. Or I guess you could get a cheap 5 and modify it.


I wasn't directing anything negative towards you, quite the contrary.

I don't fault you mentioning that as an option - I'm saying that what you describe having is not a scrub plane, it is a fore plane.

If he wants "scrub" plane then he will have to buy one or make one. After all, it is one of the easiest planes to make from scratch as there is very little metal work required - no chip breaker.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

firemedic said:


> ...
> A scrub and a fore plane perform the same job and in essentially the same technique. However there is an appreciable difference between a fore plane and a scrub plane.
> ...


can you please elaborate on the difference(s)?


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

Thank you Jean. So what makes a scrub plane?


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

BTW:

Interesting article by Chris Schwarz on what a scrub plane is actually intended for... and it is probably NOT what you think...

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/scrub-planes-a-curious-animal


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## s7nf (Jun 24, 2013)

Billy De said:


> I`m not an expert on German wooden planes but that does not look like what you are looking for.Sometimes the people selling the tools don't know what they are.
> 
> The brand name of the one you are looking at is Famos and it is an ex Germany army issue .
> 
> ...


And I thought that Famos was misspelled famous :laughing:

Thank you for the link, but I need someone who sends to EU (Slovenia actually, not Germany).


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

That is a German e-bay site if you scroll down the page the guy gives you a telephone No or you can e mail him for the cost of postage. Good luck. Billy


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> can you please elaborate on the difference(s)?


This page here might be of help re. the Foreplane 
http://logancabinetshoppe.com/blog/2008/08/the-scrub-plane-debate/

And this links to 3 pages re. the Scrubplane 
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/scrubPlanes/scrubPlanes1.asp
This also has a good tip for maintaining and sharpening the iron's curved edge


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

This has been a more informative than usual thread. Looking forwarding using my fore to try to narrow some fir dor workbench base, just as soon as I get some wax....


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> can you please elaborate on the difference(s)?


The most obvious difference to note is the width of the iron. Scrub planes have much narrower irons than do fore planes. Subsequently the iron of a scrub has a greater camber and is a narrower plane all together.

In modern planes scrubs still lack a chip breaker - it's of no advantage for a scrub plane. However hat's not a conclusive detail, early planes were all single irons without a chip breaker.

The easiest way to look at this is as follows. A scrub plane is a particular type of plane designed for one job. A fore plane is a bench plane in all aspects other than being tuned with a heavy camber and open mouth.

Here's the real difference though - Scrubs are of of Germanic / Dutch origin. 

Fore planes are French / English. 

ie - two different cultures having different means for the same job.



I hate to do this, but I have to disagree with CS. That article was written some time ago and I may be interpreting what he is trying to convey. It sounds as though he is saying a scrub is for the edge of a board and hence that's it's intended use. 

This may be the only reason Stanley produced it however it was used by a people with quite the intimate relationship with axes and hatchets - particularly broad hatchets. It's very doubtful if your neighborhood cabinet builder would lay aside the hatchet for the scrub plane even more so that he would use a tool not in existence in his culture to rough joint the face of a board. 

The Germans, French and English (an related) all used hatchets to size boards - even the face of the board as Moxon states.

Moxon writes more about the Fore Plane than any other plane, for his explanation accompanied by my commentary see:
http://creoleproject.blogspot.com/p/understanding-joseph-moxon.html


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Here in NZ , we house building carpenters called the Scrub a German Jack Plane , and hogging off the backs of finishing timbers, and the faces of studs and dwangs when wall straightening were its two final uses before it was superseded by electric hand planers .

It's compact size, light weight , and horn , were possibly the main reasons for being the tool of choice for the task.










We used a Carpenter's Hatchet also , often following up with the german jack .


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

firemedic said:


> You should know by now not to take me for 100% serious all the time. The Number 6 is useless as a Fore Plane...
> 
> As for a jointer - it's not often that I'll use anything but an 8. That said - small boards get small planes & big slabs get big planes... in terms of jointing.
> 
> I think there is an equation out there concerning body mass x height x (slab incub x (some derivative) = Jointer size. :laughing: use a different derivative for smoother size. Yes, I prefer a 4-1/2" smoother.


So the No 6's sole is too long to be a useful fore plane?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

BZawat said:


> So the No 6's sole is too long to be a useful fore plane?


No, the length is fine... The thing is too dang heavy! Scrub and Fore planes don't benefit from added weight like a smoother does and only tires you out all the faster... and I like big heavy planes because I'm a 6'4" 230 lb German! :laughing:


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## EastexToolJunky (Mar 25, 2013)

I would assume that the blade on the no 6 would be too wide for a scrub plane even with a camber. Taking that much material off would be pretty tiring.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Also you start working away at a wide chunk of wood with a 40 and it goes pretty fast. I just would like a spare blade for mine. Just change the blade and keep going. They work pretty fast once you get in the groove.


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