# 2 lacquer questions



## RichO (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi guys

I have been using Campbells clear vinyl sealer & Magnalac for years and recently I tried Ultralaq sanding sealer from Lenmar. The Campbells sealer always seemed to leave behind a rough surface that needed plenty of sanding before the top coat but the Lenmar I tried left things pretty smooth, and also dried with a satin sheen where the Campbells dried dull. I'm just wondering if the Lenmar doesn't contains as many solids as the Campbells and that's why it seems more like a lacquer than a sealer.

Any opinions on Lenmar? It is a little less expensive than Campbells.

My other issue is overlapping when spraying face frames. I always spray the vertical members vertically, then the horizontal members left to right, but where 2 face frame members meet I always end up with a heavier coat due to overlapping. What is the common solution to this?

Thanks for your help.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

If you're thinning the sealer and lacquer, try using a slower thinner, or add retarder. It will alow the sealer to flow a bit better, and as for the face frames, not much can be done as there will be overlap, but keeping the load up to a minimum is possible. 

If you retard the lacquer, you may keep the stiles somewhat wet, so when you do the rails, feather the path at the intersection. A thinner mix won't have as much of a build when coming back for the cross path. Usually, by the time the inside edge is sprayed, there is quite a bit of finish on the faces.












 







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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

RichO said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I have been using Campbells clear vinyl sealer & Magnalac for years and recently I tried Ultralaq sanding sealer from Lenmar. The Campbells sealer always seemed to leave behind a rough surface that needed plenty of sanding before the top coat but the Lenmar I tried left things pretty smooth, and also dried with a satin sheen where the Campbells dried dull. I'm just wondering if the Lenmar doesn't contains as many solids as the Campbells and that's why it seems more like a lacquer than a sealer.
> 
> ...


 
"Any opinions on Lenmar? It is a little less expensive than Campbells."

CHEMMY: No i'm not familiar with Lenmar's products, You do state, however, that you were/are using "vinyl sealer" Is this lenmar "sanding" sealer also a vinyl base? If not, does Lenmar recommend theirs for the same purposes that you would use a vinyl for? Or are you not interested in the qualities of the sealer and why one is used instead of another, per se'?

"My other issue is overlapping when spraying face frames. I always spray the vertical members vertically, then the horizontal members left to right, but where 2 face frame members meet I always end up with a heavier coat due to overlapping. What is the common solution to this?"

Chemmy: The "common" solution in a high end factory environment is to treat the frame as a solid piece of wood and not as an open stick rectangle. If you've ever seen a reciprocating automatic sprayer in action it sprays frames just as if they were a solid surface. Yes there is wasted material, but that is figured into the cost of the finishing process, and if copying the basic movements of the sprayer by hand, where it is much more controllable, much less waste is resulted. 

From what i originally learned watching this process, and then fine tuning it to my own spray habits, I could then achieve a uniform mill thickness upon anything i sprayed, which in some instances is critical, especially when spraying sensitive mil thick coatings, like catalyzed for example. 

If your still interested in the technique i will be glad to share it, if not then that's OK also. 

Sincerely, 

Chemmy


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## RichO (Apr 29, 2009)

> does Lenmar recommend theirs for the same purposes that you would use a vinyl for? Or are you not interested in the qualities of the sealer and why one is used instead of another, per se'?


The paint store I purchased Lenmar from said this was the compatible sealer to use with a lacquer topcoat.

Although I am not at home right now, I believe this is the stuff I bought.










Normally I thin the sealer but this sealer is thinner than Campbells right out of the can so I didn't thin this sealer. So I guess what I am trying to figure out is if going with Lenmar is just going to require me to use more coats than I did with Campbells.

I haven't used the Lenmar top coat yet as I still had some Magnalac left.

As for the face frames, I guess I will try spraying all in the same direction. Strangely, the overlapping was much more noticeable when I used the Lenmar as the sealer as opposed to all the years I used Campbells.

Thanks for your help.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

RichO said:


> The paint store I purchased Lenmar from said this was the compatible sealer to use with a lacquer topcoat.
> 
> Although I am not at home right now, I believe this is the stuff I bought.
> 
> ...


Ok, thanks for the pic, now i see it is a vinyl also and most likely a pre-cat. Next, you can't really compare two products by how thin or thick they appear. There are high solids coating out there on the market that have contents of more than 80% solids by volume, that spray just as easily as nitro lacquers. A better comparison is to check the MSDS sheets or technical sheets and see how the " volume" of solids, [not the "weight", ] stack up between the two ok? The higher the volume of solids, the thicker the caoting will be [mil wise] wise when all the solvents/thinners have evaporated. it is very easy to change the rheaology of any coating to give it the "appearence" of being thinner than some other product, yet contain the same or more film forming polymers with in it. Please get back with your findings on this issue ok?

Your visual finding of the lenmar being more noticable on the overlaps, simply because of the types of sovents/thinners/or other additives in it. slower release of some of these creates the visual affect of and real affect of, staying wet longer therfore magnifying this visually.


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## RichO (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't have a can of the Cambell's sealer for reference but the information was easy to find online:

ML Campbell sealer:
% Solids - by Weight: 19 - 22
% Solids - by Volume: 13 - 17

Lenmar:
% Solids - by Weight: 20 - 21
% Solids - by Volume: 13 - 14

Thanks for the explanation about the solids. If I had given it longer to cure, perhaps the overlapping wouldn't have been so noticeable. Nonetheless, I will try it the other way next time and see what kind of results I get.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

RichO said:


> I don't have a can of the Cambell's sealer for reference but the information was easy to find online:
> 
> ML Campbell sealer:
> % Solids - by Weight: 19 - 22
> ...


Then the solids are not that much different, not enough to be of major concern. Both are drying to less than a 1/4 mil if being applied at 4 wet mil thickness. 

If your overlapping of your spray stays at 50% then you should get excellent results using my method, and no build up at joint areas. 

Good luck and happy finishing. :thumbsup:

Chemmy


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

RichO said:


> As for the face frames, I guess I will try spraying all in the same direction.


I've sprayed all one way, and stiles/rails. You will get an overlap with either method. Sraying all one way, like left to right, etc, by the time you get back to where you started it has started to kick already. Besides, there is quite a bit of wasted material.

I find that by the time I spray the opening edges of the faceframe, like in a clockwise pattern, there's overspray on the faces. By the time you make several passes, the faces need very little media.

You should be spraying with the backs out of the cabinets, or you'll have quite a bit of mist. 












 







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## RichO (Apr 29, 2009)

Definitely, I always attach the backs after all finishing is done.

When you say "faces" and "faceframe" are you referring to 2 different things?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

RichO said:


> Definitely, I always attach the backs after all finishing is done.
> 
> When you say "faces" and "faceframe" are you referring to 2 different things?


The faces of the faceframes.












 







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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I've sprayed all one way, and stiles/rails. You will get an overlap with either method. Sraying all one way, like left to right, etc, by the time you get back to where you started it has started to kick already. Besides, there is quite a bit of wasted material.
> 
> I find that by the time I spray the opening edges of the faceframe, like in a clockwise pattern, there's overspray on the faces. By the time you make several passes, the faces need very little media.
> 
> ...


I see what your saying Cman, I guess i would have to actually show my method for it to be understood. trying to explain it would be difficult. once you had seen it though, i think you would agree that most any flat surfaces could be sprayed this way with uniform coverage of mil thickness.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

chemmy said:


> I see what your saying Cman, I guess i would have to actually show my method for it to be understood. trying to explain it would be difficult. once you had seen it though i think you would agree that most any flat surfaces could be sprayed this was with uniform coverage of mil thickness.


Try explaining it.












 







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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Try explaining it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, not going to spend the time. maybe in the future i will make a video and post when the weather warms up again in the spring.


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