# Formby's Tung Oil beading up



## brtworks (Apr 13, 2009)

Hi,
I have been using Formby's tung oil finish for many years and love it. It is fool-proof!
Every so many years, I sand and refinish some large dining table tops for a local country inn. I use Formby's every time with no problem.

This time, after I sanded and went to apply the finish, it acted like oil on water. It sort of beaded up! Something like applying a waterbased or lacquer on a silicone contaminated surface. The first coat sinks in like usual, but subsequent coats will act strange. Sometimes it applies evenly, but I come back in ten minutes and it is beaded up. I have tried rewiping with a finish soaked rag and I have also tried rewiping with citrus solvent on a rag. It seems to work somewhat or for a while. I have to mess and mess with it. I have sanded down and reapplied finish to this one table top 5 or so times and it still looks like doo-doo! When it dries it looks extremely streaky. I've been woodworking (and even teach woodworking) for about 20 years. I have never run into this! My experience with finishes are mostly limited to danish oil type, some water based and nitrocellulose lacquer.

Here are a few details that I think I should add. 
1. The country inn has used another local shop to do some work to some of their tables. This is a big shop that uses a two-part finish that they mix together then spray on. But they say they never had them refinish these two table tops.
2. The wait staff uses "who knows what" to clean/shine the dining tables. This would be impossible to determine what might have been used since wait staff comes and goes.

What the .. .?


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## Wood4Fun (Aug 29, 2008)

two things come to mind...

1. was wax applied at some point? sounds like that would have been addressed with all the sanding you have done so far though
2. do you have a bad batch of Formby's?

Final though is possibly contacting Formby's to get their thoughts on the problem.

As far as the staff, I doubt they brought their own cleaning supplies in. I'm sure they used whatever was given to them


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## brtworks (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: Formby's tung oil beading up*

Wood4Fun,
Thanks for answering.

I thoroughly sanded the tables with a random orbital sander starting at 80, then 120 and 180.

Your idea of contacting Formby's is a good one. Although I have used 5 cans of finish on these tables already.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

Try some wax and grease remover designed for paint prep. Test on a small area first, I have never used it on bare wood.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sanding alone wouldn't remove wax or silicone based products. I would do a good wet wipe down with mineral spirits. If it's really bad, lacquer thinner or acetone would be the last resort. You may have to restain.


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## brtworks (Apr 13, 2009)

*cabinetman - I have a question*

Dear Cabinetman,

Have you personally had experience with silicone contamination on a surface that you are applying a danish oil finish to?

The country inn used a product called "Orange Glo" on the tables and it contains "polydimethysiloxane". I assume that is silicone. They also used "Murphy's Oil Soap" and I don't know what is in that yet.

I guess I am looking for confirmation that this is the problem so I can let them know what is a good product to use to clean and polish. Any suggestions on a safe and effective cleaner/polisher?

Yesterday after I sanded, I wiped one of the tables down with mineral spirits turning the cloth often, then wiped it down it with a clean dry rag. Then I applied a very thin coat of Formby's, polishing it until it was dry. I did this with 2' x 2' sections.

What I am trying to do is seal in the contamination and avoid heavy streaks so I won't have to sand so heavily next time and risk spreading the silicone around.

Any thoughts from anyone out there? They are opening a week from tomorrow so it is crunch time.

Many thanks.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

brtworks said:


> Dear Cabinetman,
> 
> Have you personally had experience with silicone contamination on a surface that you are applying a danish oil finish to?
> 
> ...



Yes, I have personally experienced major problems with different types of contamination from oils infused with contaminants, silicones, and waxes. I've learned how to protect the shop environment and surfaces that come in contact with wood. I use all types of finishing media.

Murphy's Oil soap is basically made up of potassium soap of vegetable oil (potassium hydroxide), propylene glycol, water and surfactants (soaps, or cleaning agents). 

So, what happened after you cleaned with mineral spirits?


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## brtworks (Apr 13, 2009)

*formby's finishing problems*

Hi, 
Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, I too am careful in my own shop to avoid contaminants. Unfortunately I am refinishing these "in situ."

What happened? It is hard to tell because I put such a thin coat on, but I am hopeful. I tested a small area on the second table by only lightly sanding by hand, then coating it the same way I did the other table. Unfortunately the underlying coat which was streaky still showed through. As I thought it would.

Very tricky!

So, are you saying Murphys Oil soap would be okay?

Thanks again.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

brtworks said:


> So, are you saying Murphys Oil soap would be okay?
> 
> Thanks again.



OK for what? Do you mean to use for cleaning bare wood, or finished wood, or cleaning wood with an indeterminate finish? I DON'T USE IT FOR ANYTHING. You need to be specific to what you are using packaged cleaners for!!!


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## brtworks (Apr 13, 2009)

*murphy's oil soap*

Hi cabinetman,

I mean a commercial product that the wait staff can use for cleaning and polishing dining tables with finish on them.

I just looked up Murphy's Oil Soap on the internet. I found this:

"The most common mistake is using Murphy's Oil Soap. Murphy's truly claims to be the most popular cleaner of wood in existence. Unfortunately I know of no one who has wood that needs to be cleaned. On Murphy's label it says "pure vegetable oil soap". So you put vegetable oil soap in water then wash everything, when the water evaporates you have vegetable oil soap on everything. Sure makes a lot of sense. The idea is to clean things not coat them with vegetable oil soap residue.


You don't need to believe me, you can go ahead and clean your hardwood floors with Murphy's Oil Soap. Then in five to seven years, when you need to have them recoated, you'll find out. Or read the notice from BonaKemi to their distributors that I have copied below. 
Thanks for your time.
￼
Hal Rusche 2nd
President, Heritage Hardwood Floors, Inc.
_____________________________________________
January 2, 1992 
To: BonaKemi Distributors
RE: Murphy' Oil Soap
Murphy's Oil Soap was tested as maintenance cleaner for hardwood floors to find the possible effects on future screen and recoats. A 2- 1/4" red oak strip floor was prepared using BonaKemi waterbased finish. The floor was then maintained for four weeks, using he manufacture's recommended procedures. Suggested concentration levels were used on a portion of the floor, with slightly differing levels across the remained of the floor.
Before screening the floor for a recoat, it was apparent that an "oily" residue remained on the floor. While screening, the disk gummed up with a waxy residue.
During application of a new topcoat,* "fisheyes" developed in spots, *and crawling in some areas was observed. Adhesion on the new finish application was poor with complete failure in some areas
Due to the apparent incompatibility of Murphy's Oil Soap residue with subsequent recoating, we cannot recommend its use as a maintenance program cleaner for hardwood floors.

BonaKemi USA, Inc.  14805 E. Moncrieff Place, Aurora, CO 80011-1207 (303) 371-1411 FAX (303) 371-6958 (800) 574-4674
_____________________________
Comments
Murphy's oil soap reacts badly with many of today's hardwood floor finishes. All hardwood flooring professionals agree you should NOT use murphy's oil soap on hardwood floors. The best cleaner for hardwood flooring is one cup vinegar to a gallon of water. Using improper products on your hardwood floor makes my job really difficult when I end up refinishing them."


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