# I screwed up staining - now what?



## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

:furious:

Yesterday I attempted to apply Varathane stain to my poplar and oak plywood bar.

I had to apply the stain in sections within my reach using a staining pad.

As I would apply and wipe one section, then begin the new section, the overlap would begin to lighten. Now in certain spots you can see lighter splotch marks where I stopped and re-applied stain.

I stained the entire bar.
Panicked.
Went online and rubbed the whole bar with steel wool and mineral spirits.

This somewhat reduced the splotches but you can still see them. And the stain overall is much lighter because of the Mineral Spirits.

What recourse do i have? Do I need to sand it all down and re apply stain? 

Can I go over it all with another coat? Is there a better process?

I shouldve just used danish oil and called it a day $*&^*&#@[email protected]$ Please help me!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Before you start sanding, try using your steel wool with lacquer thinner and see if you can even up the color. 

When you applied the stain did you use a pre-conditioner on the poplar? I think the conditioner should have prevented the poplar from drinking up enough stain to go blotchy.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Here are some images, as you can see - a day later the finish looks even more like crap.

What grit should I use to sand this all off and then apply some danish to it?


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> Before you start sanding, try using your steel wool with lacquer thinner and see if you can even up the color.
> 
> When you applied the stain did you use a pre-conditioner on the poplar? I think the conditioner should have prevented the poplar from drinking up enough stain to go blotchy.


I did apply a pre-conditioner and the poplar took the stain very even, the issue was me stopping and starting for the next section.

Will the lacquer thinner lift up the stain so that I can apply a new "first" coat?

The images are how it looks a day after. It has been one day since ive stained. 

Thanks


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

I've worked with danish oil before and the process is fool proof. Could I apply lacquer thinner, let dry and apply a dark danish oil?

I'm hoping I can save this bar, the woodwork took so long!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Lacquer thinner is just a stronger solvent than mineral spirits. I think it would even up the stain so you can re-apply it. Still you will have to find the means of working faster to keep from having lap marks. You might get a bucket and a rag so you can keep moving with it. If you have a sprayer you might try using that to apply the stain.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

So Laquer the whole thing, wipe off the excess, let dry and try to apply the stain again?

Could i, instead of staining, do danish oil? since it is more fool proof... or will the pores be too filled with the previous stain?


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*staining*

The two woods, (poplar and plywood veneer) will not take the stain the same and they will not evenly match without using a toner. 
Toners can be purchased in shake-shake rattle cans but using a toner is a another skill. Toners come in colors. I suggest you try Van **** Brown. 
Sand down with a 220 grit sandpaper to get your stain as even as you can. 
Remove all sanding marks. 
Use a stain preconditioner before staining again. 
Re-stain being careful to keep the color uniform. If you re-coat or leave the stain on longer in one area over another, it will darken in those areas. 
Once satisfied with the staining and after thoroughly dry, apply very light coats of Toner to even out and blend the two woods. 
The toner will hide grain if applied heavy. Use very light coats of Toner. 
If satisfied, finish after thoroughly dry.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> The two woods, (poplar and plywood veneer) will not take the stain the same and they will not evenly match without using a toner.
> Toners can be purchased in shake-shake rattle cans but using a toner is a another skill. Toners come in colors. I suggest you try Van **** Brown.
> Sand down with a 220 grit sandpaper to get your stain as even as you can.
> Remove all sanding marks.
> ...


Thank you,

Unfortunately, now the stain is more lighter and darker in areas due to me using mineral spirits to try and even the color. If I were to sand all with 220, I dont think it would even the stain as it is very inconsistent now.

My main issue this last time was starting and stopping in certain areas because of the long surfaces, the overlaps would then show up lighter. Im not too worried about the poplar bar rail being different than the bar top.

Super discouraging even though this is my first time, maybe too big of a project to tackle alone.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Im guessing attempting to start from scratch and maybe use a gel stain for longer working time. 

Will the lacquor take out enough stain to start over?

Thank you!


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Re-staining*



chuco61 said:


> Thank you,
> 
> Unfortunately, now the stain is more lighter and darker in areas due to me using mineral spirits to try and even the color. If I were to sand all with 220, I dont think it would even the stain as it is very inconsistent now.
> 
> ...


Chuco,
We understand your frustration. Most of us have been there. 
Just something else to work through. 
It's not necessary to remove all the color from the top. 
It is very important that you use a sanding block to keep everything flat or else you will have waves in the top. 
I would not recommend changing to a gel stain. 
Try this: after shaking your oil stain well, pour a small amount into another can or bowl. Dilute this stain by 25% with mineral spirits. 
Apply liberally with a brush or rag. Wait only 10 minutes before rubbing down with a rag like a 1/4 of an old T-shirt. 
Allow to dry a few minutes before you start your touch-up with the stain. Touch-up using a small rag (about the size if a T-shirt sleeve. Touch-up the area you feel are too light. You can use a dry paintbrush to feather the edges to help blend. You can always add additional coats of stain and you can use the stain full strength if needed, but don't rush it. 
Once you have the color as close as you can get it, you can make the decision if you want to use a Toner or not. 
Keep us posted on your progress and good luck to you. 
Jim


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

chuco61 said:


> Im guessing attempting to start from scratch and maybe use a gel stain for longer working time.
> 
> Thank you!


FYI
The gel stain I have used (GF Java) needs to be wiped on and wiped off quickly. It does not have a long working time. Best to have two people doing the work...and lots of good clean rags.

Also, there are a lot of videos on You Tube. Some might be helpful, others may not.

---------------

Good luck. I think if it were me, I would do what the Toolman said and use a darker stain.

I know you don't want to tear your project down and start over.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> Chuco,
> We understand your frustration. Most of us have been there.
> Just something else to work through.
> It's not necessary to remove all the color from the top.
> ...


Thank you all for your help, I spent the better half of yesterday stripping down the entire surface 

I used a combination of 50/50 Lacquer and Denatured Alcohol - which helped me on doing less sanding. I am now going to use a Danish Oil application, I found a nice walnut color and tested on a few scrap pieces.

I think the biggest lesson was that I did not get my staining pad as drenched in stain as i should have. I kind of dipped it half way. Unfortunately, I couldnt find any videos of staining large surfaces, like a 10ft bar. 

To be honest, I dont think any video or explination would have prepared me enough for this job. Now i know to leave professional work to the pros haha

Thank you all for your input, attentiveness and help with this project.

I'll post an image after I apply the dark walnut Danish oil! Thank you!


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Any advice on applying Behlen's Rock Hard Varnish?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Applying the Behlen's varnish is the same as any oil based varnish. If you have the means of spraying it that would be best but you have to watch out for overspray in your shop. If not find as soft of a paint brush as you can get and apply the varnish as thin as possible with as few strokes as possible. The more you brush varnish the more the brush strokes show.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Well, the saga continues...

I applied one coat of dark walnut Danish oil yesterday afternoon, the person I'm working with / for building the bar isn't too thrilled about the light golden color that has resulted on the poplar.

Would a diluted solution of the original stain and mineral sprits add color on top of the Danish oil? I have scraps to test on.

Can someone explain how a toner is supposed to function and be applied? I dont know of any local places that carry toner, if have to order a darker color. 

I've researched glaze coloring wood as well but am unsure of the process.

Thanks for bearing with me.

Tool man, the diluted stain option sounds like I could try it, but will it work over a scuffed up Danish coat?


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> Applying the Behlen's varnish is the same as any oil based varnish. If you have the means of spraying it that would be best but you have to watch out for overspray in your shop. If not find as soft of a paint brush as you can get and apply the varnish as thin as possible with as few strokes as possible. The more you brush varnish the more the brush strokes show.


Thanks, I think I'll apply the first few coats with a 50/50 mix of MS and my good china brush.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

chuco61 said:


> Well, the saga continues...
> 
> I applied one coat of dark walnut Danish oil yesterday afternoon, the person I'm working with / for building the bar isn't too thrilled about the light golden color that has resulted on the poplar.
> 
> ...


Think of a toner like it was paint you added so much thinner to it that it gave a lot of color to the wood but didn't cover the grain. If you used a dye it would be more like ink that would color the wood without giving it a paste look.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Got it, I have a spray gun and just read this article on toners.

http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/articles/view/pro/23/253

If I used the stain I currently have and diluted 4 parts acetone and shot that over the bar, this might actually work!! Especially since it says it can go over any previous finish.

Any thoughts? Any info on the psi to shoot? 

Do you shoot in the direction of the grain if I have multiple areas of grain facing different directions.

This could be the solution I need! Thank you


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

toolman, do you think your diluted stain method of wiping could work over the danish oil layer i've put on.

I'm thinking if my gun is not calibrated correctly, I may get splatters etc.. 

My timeline is getting smaller for an event coming up on the 18th, I may just resort to painting the arm rail black and calling a day!


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

chuco61 said:


> toolman, do you think your diluted stain method of wiping could work over the danish oil layer i've put on.
> 
> I'm thinking if my gun is not calibrated correctly, I may get splatters etc..
> 
> My timeline is getting smaller for an event coming up on the 18th, I may just resort to painting the arm rail black and calling a day!


Since you've changed to the Danish Oil, I would not use a Toner. 
I would try to use the Danish Oil to get the color blend. 
Danish Oil comes in light, medium, dark and black Walnut colors plus a wide variety of other colors. Depending on the color needed, I would buy 1 or 2 different Danish Oil colors to use in blending the color. I would not mix the colors together. I would just apply a darker oil directly to the light spots on the top with a very small brush and feather with a dry brush to get the color match needed. Use 0000 steel wool to lighten any spot too dark. 
You don't want to leave the oil heavy on the top to dry because it will only become tacky. But you can continue to apply the oils until you get the look you want. Apply the last coats using 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper as you build a slight luster on the piece. 
I hope you find this helpful. Keep us posted. 
Jim


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

I found this article, which is re leaving, this Friday would put me over the 100 hour mark.

I could wipe down with alcohol and water 50/50 and then use a diluted formula of stain and lacquer over the Danish oil.

http://forum.targetcoatings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5425&sid=8ebed39901ef9fb909da98ec30b96679

Any thoughts? Will the lacquer begin to eat through the danish oil or should i use mineral spirits to thin down the stain?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

chuco61 said:


> Got it, I have a spray gun and just read this article on toners.
> 
> http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/articles/view/pro/23/253
> 
> ...


With a toner thinner is better and go with the grain. Multiple coats is better than having the toner too concentrated. Too concentrated and it will go on like paint and harder to keep from going on blotchy.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Re-staining*



chuco61 said:


> I found this article, which is re leaving, this Friday would put me over the 100 hour mark.
> 
> I could wipe down with alcohol and water 50/50 and then use a diluted formula of stain and lacquer over the Danish oil.
> 
> ...


 Chuco
Are you reading the post replies?
You cannot keep jumping around in your staining methods. 
You started with an oil based stain and you've already changed to a Danish Oil stain and finish. The Danish Oil can be your final finish. 
You do not want to put any water mix on this project with what you've started. Oil and water don't mix. 
Lacquer is a finish. You are not ready for finish. We were trying to get your color balanced. If you are okay with your color, the top will need to be thoroughly dry before you apply any finish. If you rush it, you will wind up painting the project.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> Chuco
> Are you reading the post replies?
> You cannot keep jumping around in your staining methods.
> You started with an oil based stain and you've already changed to a Danish Oil stain and finish. The Danish Oil can be your final finish.
> ...


The danish oil, i opted to use, because of the ease of application. However, the result on the poplar arm rail is 1. lighter than anticipated and 2. inconsistent even with a pre-conditioner applied. The bartop itself is actually looking good. :thumbsup:

Now that this single layer of danish oil is on and wont be touched until this Friday - what options do I have to now alter the color over the Danish Oil finish?

I could spray a toner, but might run into problems as you suggest.

Could I add darker color to this project with a diluted mix of stain and thinner?

Is a glaze an option, as glaze does not need to be absorbed into the grain but rather sits on top?

Thanks for taking the time to hear me out - I want to have a satisfactory product even If it means putting in more time and work.

Thank you!! :icon_smile:


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I just gotta ask this one question...Have you tried your different finish combinations on any scrap before applying it to your project? Just curious.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> I just gotta ask this one question...Have you tried your different finish combinations on any scrap before applying it to your project? Just curious.


Yes I have tested everything on scraps. But they will only show me soucb, it's different when I'm working and seeing a 10ft long peice of wood with the stain / oil on it.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I here ya.
I have never used Danish Oil on anything so I wouldn't know what to expect. But we did apply the General Finishes Van **** glaze on our cabinets over the GF Colonial Maple and it turned out great. Looks like factory stuff. The wood used to build our cabinets is knotty alder.

The glaze adds a little dark brown shade to the wood, but most just wipes off leaving highlights (in dark brown ) in all the crevices of the cabinet work (knots, profiles, etc).

I don't know if that would help your situation or not.
Here's a couple of pics of the finish with a satin clear applied over the finish. The stain, and the glaze was hand applied. I sprayed the clear with a HVLP gun in my outdoor spray booth (the yard).


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I found an example of the Van **** Glaze application.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I7UJ95J9s8


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

MT,

Thanks for the input. Those cabinets look great. I'm curious how a water based glaze would adhere to an oil base coat.

I went to three different paint shops and Home Depot and didn't find any tintable glaze and don't have time to wait for one in the mail ... I may be out of luck on this one and may have to weigh the option of painting it. I only have access to dark walnut locally and not the other colors that they offer.

Even if I did add more color, the issue still remains on the inconsistency of the poplar, the Danish will just tint it more, the glaze would have covered it - unless I sand again and try to reapply an oil stain.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Matching stains*

Chuck,
If I'm understanding you correctly, you like the look of the oak top. 
This is very good progress. 
Now you want to work on the Poplar rail. 
If your pleased with the look of the Oak, mask it off to separate from the rail with wide blue painter's tape. Use paper or plastic to cover the field of the top. 
Now you can glaze or paint the rail separately to your satisfaction. 
I suggest you start with a glaze. If you can find a dark mahogany type glaze, it might be a good match for the Red Oak top. You will be going over the light base color you've already applied, so the dark glaze might get be what your looking for. You control the glaze by how much you wipe off. You can wipe on and off using rags or brushes. 
Glazes are usually thick to apply and give you 20 minutes of work time to darken, lighten and balance the look. 
Good luck to you in completing this project.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

I found a quart of oil based glazer hat I'm getting in a few hours and will look into some mohogany stains. Thank for your help.

Does the glaze typically self level if I brush it on? A lot of videos show wiping of the glaze - I'm assuming I need to play with the ratio of glaze to stain.

I feel so close to finally being done! Thanks! 

If I want to match the bar top with the railing same wiping process?

If I want to darken the railing further can I add darker glaze on top of the previous? Or is it more of a one time thing?


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

I just rewatched the Idaho Painters glazing technique and it looks fairly straight forward. I think i'm ready to tackle this - i'll be doing it tomorrow.

I bought a quart of Old Masters Red Mahogany. I'm going to play with the mixing ratios tonight on my danish oil scrap piece.

My main concern is adhesion, but i'll find out later. Not sure how to prep the surface exactly before glazing?

Fingers crossed!


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

chuco61 said:


> I just rewatched the Idaho Painters glazing technique and it looks fairly straight forward. I think i'm ready to tackle this - i'll be doing it tomorrow.
> 
> I bought a quart of Old Masters Red Mahogany. I'm going to play with the mixing ratios tonight on my danish oil scrap piece.
> 
> ...


Lightly scuff it with some 320 or 400 grit sand paper. That should work well.

Good luck.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> Lightly scuff it with some 320 or 400 grit sand paper. That should work well.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you for the information! Very excited to get this going tomorrow.

I'm praying that the Behlen's Rock Hard Varnish doesnt have any adverse effects on my glazing - test pieces are in order.:yes:


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

chuco61 said:


> Thank you for the information! Very excited to get this going tomorrow.
> 
> I'm praying that the Behlen's Rock Hard Varnish doesnt have any adverse effects on my glazing - test pieces are in order.:yes:


I'm very eager to learn how this works out for you. 
Poplar doesn't have as much grain as the Oak but you can make fake grain with the glaze using something like an old hard bristle hair brush or comb. If you do this, just go in a V pattern with the grain. 
The glaze, although thicker, will lay flat enough that after drying, I don't think you will be able to feel it. 
Wishing you good luck in finishing this project.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> I'm very eager to learn how this works out for you.
> Poplar doesn't have as much grain as the Oak but you can make fake grain with the glaze using something like an old hard bristle hair brush or comb. If you do this, just go in a V pattern with the grain.
> The glaze, although thicker, will lay flat enough that after drying, I don't think you will be able to feel it.
> Wishing you good luck in finishing this project.


Thanks,

Here are the results of my test with a 4:1 mix of glaze to stain.

8oz of glaze and 2oz of stain. I think this might be too weak of a mix. As I would wipe with a light touch, not much glazing stuck to the surface as shown in the videos.

Im thinking maybe more a 2:1 mix or even a 1:1 mix. The tinting effect however was very noticeable and I don't mind the resulting color, although, it won't hide any of the blotchiness of the poplar.

This was on a scrap piece of red oak coated with 1 coat of Danish oil.

left side was un sanded, right 1/3 side sanded with 320.







all input appreciated.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

I thought you were only glazing the Poplar.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

You lost me when you said you were mixing the stain with the glaze. Powdered, glaze, you say? I'm afraid that is out of my league.

The glaze I used, and the same used in the video is thicker than stain, almost the texture of sour cream...maybe a little thinner. You simply apply it with a brush over your work, and then wipe it off just like the guy did in the video.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Now that i've thought it over, I think most glazes use paint as pigment, therefore making the glaze more opaque than a toner. 

Stain inherently is intended to be transparent. I think the 4:1 is essentially making the stain even more transparent while giving it more workability. 

Now im thinking that a 2:1 of Stain to glaze might be better or even a 1:1 - just thinking this through...

The goal is to apply and feather / wipe most of the application.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> I thought you were only glazing the Poplar.


I am glazing the poplar and if it takes well, i will glaze the bartop as well. I dont have any scraps of the arm railing at my house - the bar is at my father in-laws house and I was practicing last night with the ratio and application. 

The photos are the result of this experiment.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> You lost me when you said you were mixing the stain with the glaze. Powdered, glaze, you say? I'm afraid that is out of my league.
> 
> The glaze I used, and the same used in the video is thicker than stain, almost the texture of sour cream...maybe a little thinner. You simply apply it with a brush over your work, and then wipe it off just like the guy did in the video.


Indeed the glaze is a liquid in a milky liquid a little thinner than sour cream consistency. No one im my area has an tinted glaze, so i need to mix my own.

A red mahogany was suggested in an earlier post and I do like the color. I bought Old Masters to mix with the glazing. I did a 4:1 mix but i think its way too thin.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I am getting a clearer picture now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

The Van **** glaze must be a popular glaze. I went to the Woodcraft store to get another can. There were only two. I bought one and a lady walked in and bought the other one. The clerk said it goes pretty quickly. Apparently the name "Van ****" is the color because the General Finishes brand I bought looks identical to the Sherwin Williams stuff used in the video.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> I am getting a clearer picture now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
> 
> The Van **** glaze must be a popular glaze. I went to the Woodcraft store to get another can. There were only two. I bought one and a lady walked in and bought the other one. The clerk said it goes pretty quickly. Apparently the name "Van ****" is the color because the General Finishes brand I bought looks identical to the Sherwin Williams stuff used in the video.


Sorry for the confusion, i think my entire post has been a huge confusion. 

I'm thinking that re-mixing the glaze/stain ratio is needed. The way I have it now had incredible working time and no brush marks, it was great, just no penetration! But that is probably the result of the Danish Oil.

I wish I could find the Van **** Glaze in the bay area, ordering it is atleast a week delivery time.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

*In everyone's honest opinion...*

*Should i just sand down the bar rail again and attempt to re-stain, rather than pursue the glaze?*

Applying the pre-conditioner to the railing didnt seems to really even out the color much, in fact, it looks as if it prevented color from being absorbed is a few parts.

I could leave the danish top and use the red mahogany on the rail, giving me a two tone bar effect.

please dont say "hire a pro" haha


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

chuco61 said:


> *In everyone's honest opinion...*
> 
> *Should i just sand down the bar rail again and attempt to re-stain, rather than pursue the glaze?*
> 
> ...



You're the only one that can make that call. You're the one that must be happy with the project. 
There were several things going on here on this project. As they say hind-sight is always 20/20. This is learning the hard way and most of us have been there and understand your frustration. 
The oak and the poplar woods are so different from each other that that alone caused a major hurdle for a color match from the start. 
Sample pieces of each wood should have been prepared and color matched before the color was put to the bar. 
When the oil stain wasn't satisfactory, you moved to the Danish Oil. 
The Danish is a great product, but it's stain and finish in one. It seals the wood and makes further staining less penetrating. 
My thoughts are this: if your pleased with the look of the oak, that's good. 
If you can get the color on the rail where your pleased, that will be good. 
If the two don't match, but they both look okay, that can still be good. 
Many projects are made with two or more woods and although it may be a very nice project, you can still identify the woods and tell they don't match. This is not always a bad thing. You just need to be OKAY with the end result. There has been so much learned from this experience and you now know more about staining, color matching and finishes overall than before and that a very good thing. 
Maybe you can post a picture of the completion when done.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Toolman has given some good advice. Not much I can add.

I will say this...it sounds to me like you are in a hurry to get this job completed. That very well could be your downfall. Is there any reason you can't order some glaze of the type or style you like and then just apply it? No mixing.

General Finishes Java gel stain is a really dark stain. It might help to hide some of the look you don't like in the bar rail. Check out YouTube for Java Gel Stain. There are several videos demonstrating how folks updated their kitchen cabinets.

Now for the bottom line. When your project is complete, folks that see it are going to be amazed. Mainly because they won't know what is good and what isn't. A smooth finish over your glaze will make all the difference in the world.

The cabinets I have built have had a few miscues here and there, and that is to be expected. But they aren't evident and no one ever notices.

Here are a few pics of a wet bar I built for our friends. They absolutely love it. Hard maple with Java gel stain simply painted on (two coats) to give a really dark color. Then a clear finish was applied (sprayed). Note the dry bar in front was purchased used from someone else. Then they had matching granite counter tops made.

We will be there this weekend for their 4th of July party. :thumbsup:

Good luck. I wish you the best.
Mike


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> You're the only one that can make that call. You're the one that must be happy with the project.
> There were several things going on here on this project. As they say hind-sight is always 20/20. This is learning the hard way and most of us have been there and understand your frustration.
> The oak and the poplar woods are so different from each other that that alone caused a major hurdle for a color match from the start.
> Sample pieces of each wood should have been prepared and color matched before the color was put to the bar.
> ...


Thank you very much for your encouragement and words of wisdom. I need to do some deep thinking about what I want. Bottom line is i do not like the poplar rail look at all and sanding past the Danish may be my only solution to a satisfactory finish without painting the rail black.

I appreciate it! I will definitely post a picture.


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> Toolman has given some good advice. Not much I can add.
> 
> I will say this...it sounds to me like you are in a hurry to get this job completed. That very well could be your downfall. Is there any reason you can't order some glaze of the type or style you like and then just apply it? No mixing.
> 
> ...


I am in sort of a hurry now. We are having a party July 18 and I still need to give myself time to apply the varnish and have some curing time. Most products ive looked at will take at least a week or so, and maybe delayed because of the holiday. 

Those cabinets look amazing! Thanks for all the help and support.

-Rick


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## chuco61 (Jun 12, 2015)

Well guys ...

I did it! Finally! I ended up doing it the right way and sanded down to bare wood, the poplar arm rail. I did not re-condition (took a chance on this) and used the red mahogany as my stain. I think a higher quality of stain like old masters really helped in the application and working time.

As i applied the stain, I had my father in law wipe off about 3ft behind me. This worked out flawless, no lap marks, no streaks.

We then added the stain to the top of the bar over the danish oil and it gave the danish a nice red tint to it. I'm letting it cure until sunday where I will start the varnishing process.

Here are some images! Thank you everyone for your help!

Sanded railing (2hrs working time)



Stained Railing


Stained Bartops




How can I fix this blemish?I think someone put their finger on the railing.I still have some glazeleft also that i could apply, im just not sure how to tackle this


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Chuco,
Picture #3 is the money shot! Looking good. 
Very glad you hung in there to get something your pleased with 
Happy 4th to you and yours!


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## Andrew LB (Oct 30, 2012)

Nice work. Things are really starting to improve.

This is why I've pretty much stopped using stain on most refinishing projects. I only use the stuff on wood that has never had a previous finish on it, and even then I will more often than not stick to using SolarLux NGR Dye since it always gives an even tone even on wood like Maple which is notorious for coming out blotchy when stain is used. 
I do a lot of firearm refinishing and when mistakes can result in ruining a few thousand dollar shotgun, it's important to stick with tried and true methods. After stripping the wood, I scrub it with hot water and TSP, followed by a wash of vinegar to neutralize the TSP (if you don't, finishes can fail). I then sand to 600 then apply a mixture of Rottenstone and Daly's BenMatte Tung Oil Finish, wiping it across the grain to force it into the pores. After it sits for a few minutes, I come back and wipe across the grain to remove 90% of what's on the surface. That 10% is important to leave. Let dry overnight. I then lightly wet sand with mineral spirits and 1000grit with a soft block, being careful not to cut through the perfectly filled grain. Next I apply SolarLux American Walnut and blend as needed if there is any sapwood since it takes the dye completely different than heartwood. After that drys, I finish with either BenMatte (my favorite), or if the customer wants I'll go old-school and apply a hand rubbed oil finish, or a modern durable finish like a Pre-Cat Urethane (yuck... plastic).

Here's my 1912 A.H. Fox 16ga I refinished and re-cut the checkering last year. 


And my Browning Auto-5 16ga which also was refinished and fresh cut checkering. 


They are both my go-to shotguns for upland game and ducks.


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