# help with first real project



## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I've built some boxes and other stuff, now I want to graduate to a coffee table. I have some nice rough maple that is 18'' wide, and walnut that is 21". My planer is only 12". What I'd like to know, is it better to use one wide board for the top, or several like 6" boards glued together. I want to put bread board on the ends. Do you think a maple top would look good on top of a walnut apron and legs? I don't have a set of plans but I think I have enough info between books and the Internet. I'm just doing something very basic. Any thoughts and idea's would be very helpful. Thanks.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

You are going to get more than one answer about wide boards versus glue ups. Here is mine, I like them wide. There has been discussion about it here before. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=702&highlight=wide+board

I think it is a shame to cut wide boards into little piece, then glue them back together. About the 12" planer, no problem. It can be done with a hand held belt sander (or hand plane :huh, followed by a random orbit. If you think about, not as much work as cut/plane/glue/sand.

Maple and walnut are meant to be together. They are like peanut butter and jelly. Here is a very simple table I made from maple and walnut, about like you are describing. There seems to be something wrong with the maple though :blink:. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=845


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## woodman42 (Aug 6, 2007)

bigredc
I have the same problem. Only have a 12" planer so I always cut down my material to 6 or 7". As far as which is better, you will probably get several different opinions.
I think most dark and light woods look good together. But I think your work should be a representation of yourself, thats what makes them unique.
When I'm building something that I have never built before I usually try to find a similar piece and use it for measurements and proportion.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

I would vote with Daren, in that one wide plank looks better to me than a piece that has been ripped and glued. That's just my opinion. If the planks are in a dry environment, so they are acclimatised to the area where the table is going to live, and they haven't indicated any warpage so far, then they will probably remain stable after you have created your masterpiece.
The real problem comes about when a piece is built in one environment, and then moved into another [probably much drier] environment.
I know from painful experience.

Good luck with your project. If you are good with a digital camera send us some pictures of your progress.

Gerry


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Daren I was pretty sure I knew how you stood, being a plain guy. I want to do it with a plain. I feel it's starting at the beginning. It builds respect for the old way's. I'm goofy that way. But I didn't want to work my butt off only to have it warp or crack down the road. I'll look into a book on understanding wood. I'll try to figure out if it's heart wood or not. I think I read that you only fasten the top to the apron like in the middle or something so it can expand. I'll need to find more info on how to do that. That table is perfect. I have rough dimensions of what I want, about 20"X 50" X 15" high. As far as making something my own design, I've never been good at artistic stuff. I'm a good copier. I can draw pretty good, buy it has to be of something. I can't dream stuff up. I will try to not copy Daren's table exactly. I was thinking of trying to do a tapered leg. maybe I'll change that. Daren I was trying to find the thread that had the table you made of the big piece of wood with the butterfly or bow tie things that keep cracks from expanding. Do you remember the thread. I think it was you. I don't want to make it this time but I'd like to do something like that down the road so I want to save it. I just brought the wood in from my unheated garage last night. How long do I need to let it adjust. My house is very dry (forced hot air heat) the wood was good and dry also about 7%. I was at my sisters in Florida for Christmas I found this tree in her yard. I told them if something happens to the tree save that branch for me. It should have nice grain shouldn't it?


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I thought this was odd the way they plant there tree's in Florida. Maybe the roots from one strengthin the other.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

bigredc said:


> Daren I was trying to find the thread that had the table you made of the big piece of wood with the butterfly or bow tie things that keep cracks from expanding. Do you remember the thread.
> 
> I told them if something happens to the tree save that branch for me. It should have nice grain shouldn't it?


Yea those branches should have some cool grain. I don't care if you make a table exactly like mine, I'll give you the measurements if you want them. I copy stuff all the time. "Imitation is the highest form of flattery " 

Here is that thread with the butterflied table (that was a borrowed idea from George Nakashima) http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=2128


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## Youngman (Dec 28, 2007)

bigredc said:


> I've built some boxes and other stuff, now I want to graduate to a coffee table. I have some nice rough maple that is 18'' wide, and walnut that is 21". My planer is only 12". What I'd like to know, is it better to use one wide board for the top, or several like 6" boards glued together. I want to put bread board on the ends. Do you think a maple top would look good on top of a walnut apron and legs? I don't have a set of plans but I think I have enough info between books and the Internet. I'm just doing something very basic. Any thoughts and idea's would be very helpful. Thanks.


A thought would be to rip the board into realistic sizes, cut where there is not alot of grain figuring, joint and plane it to your requirements. Then glue back together, hand plane and scrap to finish dimension. If you are very careful where you make your cuts you can almost make it seamless. The bread board end would be a nice touch providing you allow it to move with the seasons.....


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I knew that it's much more stable ripping it and gluing, and the joints are hard to see. I've already got it plained. The table is for my mother. She has a small apartment. When I talked to her today she said she only wants it 40" long. I was planing on 50" to 60" that saved me a lot of plaining. 
Daren this is the 17" maple board end grain. Is this the kind of grain that would be stable? I figured you didn't care about me copying your table. More pictures of the underside would help some if that's is possible. 
I'm going to start on the legs and hopefuly get more input before I do any more with the top.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

This is mostly sanded with 100 grit and some mineral spirits to show the grain. I got this wood cheap. All I knew was it was maple. I don't know what kind. Are the wide dark marks common. I was hoping they would sand out. I guess not?


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## aclose (Nov 11, 2007)

i think that's some pretty wood :thumbsup: 
i like the way it's looking so far. is the table top going to be as think as the end grain piece you showed? if so, your Mom won't have to worry about that table getting bumped and moved around the room. :laughing:


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi bigredc

The black marks look like spalting. It is caused by a fungus in the wood. For most woodworkers the spalting acually increases the value of the wood because it can look so beautiful. Daren will probably give you a lot more information on this. He is very knowledgable when it comes to wood. Any way you look at it that is a nice piece of wood to start with. If your moisture content is already down to 7% you are almost there. If you keep it in your nicely heated house for the next few weeks and it doesn't start to warp, check, crack, or split you are probably safe to start working it.

Gerry


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Holy smokes, now we are talking something different. No the "dark marks" are not common...and very desirable to some woodworkers (like 2X the price, not "cheap" like you got it :huh Gerry called it, spalted.

From the looks of that endgrain that was a big tree, from what I can see the sapwood is on the right edge of the board. If it's already that dry (7% like you said) and was flat, it will stay flat. The fact that it is spalted, partially broken down (rotted if you will) actually relieves stress. You should be in good shape. The fact that it is not heartwood with sapwood on each side lesson the stress too. The maple/walnut table in that one post of mine was just that heart and 2 sides sap, and it is still flat.

Wow I can't imagine anyone thinking about cutting something like that into pieces. I will look killer with walnut, since it has the black spalt lines. Hey, your first project may just be a stunner. That spalt will be more dramatic with final sanding and a finish.

Do your breadboard edges. I would only go 1 1/2" all the way around with walnut, that's just me. Stew on the leg/skirt design. I am not sure I would make the same thing I did now, unless you have more of the same maple for the skirt.

Maybe others have ideas too. Maybe nothing more than a simple square leg and stretcher all made of walnut. You are not in a hurry are you? Maybe we could make this a community project. I have thought about this before. I have had a certain chunk of wood and thought about throwing it out there for design ideas, but figured it would flop, no one would respond.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I'm trying to write an answer but I'm so slow at typing. you keep posting before I done so I have to change what I wrote. I'll do whatever you think is best. I have more maple.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

bigredc said:


> When the time comes I was thinkingof just tongue oil and maybe wax. How's that sound.


I know your were not asking me, but that sounds good. I would like to see a better picture of that board. It may be my imagination...but I thing I see some curl too . If it does have figure the Tung oil will make it pop.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

If you come up with some ideas, I'll do my very best to do it. Don't feel funny about it. Just tell me what you think. I want input. I need to learn.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I just checked the wood again. My meter only goes down to 7% and it doesn't light that up, so I am below that now.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

the 2 boards on the right is what's left of the first piece. I have another nice big one but I should probably save that for another project, unless I realy need to use it.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

The mineral spitits doesn't hurt it I hope?


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I'll sand it more and get better pictures in the sun.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

So I can start on the legs now right. Or should I hold off. Are they going to be strait or tapered? I guess I can get started tomorrow on the bread board also. Your getting me excited now. I'll need to start something else so I don't get impatient. I wanted to make a simple stool also. If you have any ideas on one let me know.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

bigredc said:


> I'll sand it more and get better pictures in the sun.


Don't need it:no:. I can see it, yep spalted figured maple :thumbsup:. I don't know what you paid...but for spalted/figured wood at my sawmill I get $15 bft. If I did my math right that single slab is worth $70 rough saw. Again the Tung oil and wax is the best finish. Set it aside, start on your next "first project", unless you have a good idea how to make this one.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Darn it Daren. Now I'm Up at 4 am thinking what am I going to do with this piece of wood. :huh: Here's you last night. There's this guy, he's got a ______ spaltid maple board and he doesn't even know what he's got. He don't even know what he's got.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

bigredc said:


> Now I'm Up at 4 am thinking what am I going to do with this piece of wood.
> 
> Here's you last night. There's this guy ,He don't even know what he's got. .


It ain't nothing to lose sleep over , I have a 40'x40' pole barn full of similar stock. (go to my website, that is my thing funky wood) At least you asked before you chopped it up and ruined it.

I was kinda thinking that. This dude is trying to sand out spalt...and can't see the obvious curl that I can see in a crappy picture :laughing:.

Well at least you won't have to get too fancy on a leg system, the top will do all the talking.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I know your original question was "how to build a coffee table". Do what I do if I don't already have a design in mind, Google image search it (coffee table). Look at all the pictures and come up with something that suits you. Everyones tastes are different, some like modern others classic (or Asian inspired, farm house..). 

If you see something or think of something that you like and don't know how to build it, just ask then. 

I did that image search "curly maple and walnut table"...on the first page was a picture from here, woodworkingtalk gallery.

If you don't see something you like better than the one I threw together, I will make suggestions on how to do it. I just don't want to say "Do it this way" and then 2 days later you see something and wish you had done it that way. It's your wood, your time...enjoy it, don't fret about it.

If you want my real advice (sort of tongue in cheek ) build Mom a coffee table out of pine, she'll love it. Go ahead and "frame" that piece of wood in walnut, sand it to 400 and put several coats of tung oil on it and wax....then hang it on the wall :laughing:.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I'm not loosing sleep. My clock is all messed up. I just got back Thurs. night from 2 weeks and 2000 miles on the road visiting my brother and sister for Christmas. I went to bed to early. I promised my Mother a maple coffee table. She said she really likes maple. I like yours. If I see one down the road I like better that will be a future project. There's nothing saying I can't build more than one coffee table. You do beautiful work. I can't imagine improving on something you suggest. Now that I'm done kissing your butt.:laughing: Do you think there is enough maple left from that board for the skirt? Or will I have to cut my other board? I don't think there is. I have a lot more walnut than maple. I would just do the skirt in walnut. Unless you think it won't look right. I was also thinking a full width skirt with a bead across the bottom. It's that kind of stuff I need help deciding if it will look right.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

You seem to be determined to make something like the table I made., so here is my take. I like contrast, so if I had the wood to do it I would make the shirt from the same as the top to complement it...but you don't have enough. So make a small skirt not to distract from the top.

If I was doing it I would put an 1 1/2" walnut edge around the top. 2 reasons, for contrast and because the spalted top is not as structurally sound as regular maple (a little rotten) and the edge could get dinged.

Then since I was using walnut for the skirt I would cut those pieces 1 1/2" tall too. You probably don't have any 1 1/2" thick walnut to make one piece legs do you ? I would have that laying around so I would cut them to height and put a slight taper in them starting 3" down from the top end.

Lay the base out so the skirt is the same size (outside dimension) as the maple slab, meaning when you look at the table from the side and kinda under the lip the walnut edge on the top and skirt meet. You are seeing walnut and walnut, not any maple from underneath unless the table is completely upside down.

*BUT* Having said _all_ that...if I had that slab (which I do, probably 50-60 just like it only wider and longer-same spalt/more curl) I would not build what I already made. I would use the same amount of walnut wood and make a base like this. No skirt, looks sturdy and would not distract from the top.  It looks like something like this (a variation of your own design) could be made with 1" thick lumber. Easy 1/2 lap joints. I really like the look of this, the only thing I would change is the joints I circled, they can be improved/made stronger. Anyone else have any ideas how ? This is a community project. Not just me an bigredc .


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

If you think it will look better I just go buy a little maple for the skirt. It doesn't have to be as thick as the top does it ? I do have some almost 2" walnut. Easily enough to make the legs. I'll sand the top, and work on the bread board. Then we will see what develops. The X frame legs kind of scare me. It looks hard to make. Does the top just sit on the base, or is it attached?


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## aclose (Nov 11, 2007)

i agree with Daren on the walnut trim. contrasting woods look great together. :thumbsup: 
if it was me, :smile: i'd trim the tabletop in walnut and then build a simple base/legs out of either walnut or maple. if i built the legs out of maple i'd use a new board that wasn't spalted or curly, just plain maple. it will still look like pretty wood, but won't take away the affect of the top with walnut trim.
i like the the base/leg design Daren posted...


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

bigredc said:


> The X frame legs kind of scare me. It looks hard to make. Does the top just sit on the base, or is it attached?


It looks no harder than 4 legs and 4 skirts to me, plus the X looks more sturdy because of the joinery technique?...and if your lap joints aren't perfect, hey they are under the table where nobody can see them :laughing:. (the skirt to leg joint would be visible, and everything has to be perfectly square. Plus you have to taper the legs on the skirt/leg base) The X joints could be made with a handsaw and chisel even. The math is easy make your X first by determining where you want your legs. Say the legs are in a rectangle 36" x 17" (or whatever) I will sometimes draw it on the shop floor with chalk, then get your center joint angle and cut and dry fit it. With the X dry fitted cut a couple short stretcher pieces and just lay them on the X where you want them and mark your cuts. Pretty simple. :thumbsup:

Yea it would be screwed to the top from the underneath. I am not trying to talk you into or out of anything, that is just what I would do. (make the X frame)...with a better leg connection joint, anyone got an idea how to make that better ?


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## mike shields (Jan 4, 2008)

bigredc said:


> I've built some boxes and other stuff, now I want to graduate to a coffee table. I have some nice rough maple that is 18'' wide, and walnut that is 21". My planer is only 12". What I'd like to know, is it better to use one wide board for the top, or several like 6" boards glued together. I want to put bread board on the ends. Do you think a maple top would look good on top of a walnut apron and legs? I don't have a set of plans but I think I have enough info between books and the Internet. I'm just doing something very basic. Any thoughts and idea's would be very helpful. Thanks.


hi there
sounds great what your trying to do.i.ve just finished afew coffee tables with some success and some dissapiontment which i have already asked for advice on. At the moment the only thing i would advise is to make sure your wood is all of the same batch and is well seasond i designed my own tables to a point and they have turned out quite well i,ll try and send a few photo,s soon.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Pictures would be great. I guess I should try to put my own little twist in the design. I priced some maple. It's cheap enough, if I decide to do a skirt I'll just buy some. I'm also going to start a stool for talking on the phone in the kitchen. That will be something relatively easy to keep me busy while I decide how to do the table. I keep buying 
magazines and books for idea's on different projects. I haven't found anything that really got me excited to build. I like shaker and colonial, queen Ann type stuff. I don't have the skills for that. Shaker is what I'll try first it's basic. That's my taste that why I can't real excited about that base.


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## Youngman (Dec 28, 2007)

bigredc said:


> Pictures would be great. I guess I should try to put my own little twist in the design. I priced some maple. It's cheap enough, if I decide to do a skirt I'll just buy some. I'm also going to start a stool for talking on the phone in the kitchen. That will be something relatively easy to keep me busy while I decide how to do the table. I keep buying
> magazines and books for idea's on different projects. I haven't found anything that really got me excited to build. I like shaker and colonial, queen Ann type stuff. I don't have the skills for that. Shaker is what I'll try first it's basic. That's my taste that why I can't real excited about that base.


I have plans somewhere for a craftsman stool if you would like.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

If you want my real advice (sort of tongue in cheek ) build Mom a coffee table out of pine, she'll love it. Go ahead and "frame" that piece of wood in walnut, sand it to 400 and put several coats of tung oil on it and wax....then hang it on the wall :laughing:.[/quote]
I'm actually contemplating doing what Daren said about not giving this one to my Mother. I don't know if she would appreciate it. Maybe I'll just buy some regular maple and make a traditional table with a skirt, and maybe a drawer. I would still use walnut for the legs and bread board. Just another thought.Still plan on building a table with the spalt and an X base. Keep it for myself.:blink:


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Here is the board sanded with 100 grit.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I have this marked out for the bread board.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

This would be the short side.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I picked up a mag today with a stool on the cover, and how to inside.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

bigredc said:


> Here is the board sanded with 100 grit.


That is an absolutely gorgeous hunk of wood. I can only imagine what it will look like with a nice low luster finish on it.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 
Gerry


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Here's what the walnut will look like against the maple.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I don't know how much you have used tung oil, so if you know this then it is for others without the experience (if you are still thinking tung oil, which I use, makes the figure pop) It is going to soak in weird on figured wood, there is endgrain-face grain and everything in between. Plus the spalt is soft and will real soak it up.

Just pour it on and wipe it around with a rag, leaving the surface very wet. The first 3-4 coats you can put on every 15-20 minutes between coats. I will puddle in some places and disappear in others, wipe it around. I do that the first day, let it set and do it again the next. Easy as pie really. Let it cured for a couple days and then wax.

I always sand to 400 when using oil/wax. You are finishing the wood, not the finish like with other products if that makes sense. You are not sanding to 120 and then buffing the top coat between layers. That is just me, but I do mess with alot of figured/spalted wood. There may be a better way, I have not found it.


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## Youngman (Dec 28, 2007)

bigredc said:


> Here's what the walnut will look like against the maple.


Am I wrong or is a bread board edge installed on the end grain only as in the picture of the pine coffee table...? Done with a T&G or Dove tail joint.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I only used tung oil once. The first coat made it look so good I think I stopped at one coat. Since then I have learned some of what you talk about. It always surprises me when things will say sand to 220. In the little I have done I always sand to 320. I will get some 400. Have you thought of another way to do the leg joint. Is it just doweled on the one showed. The only thing I could think of was to half lap it. I'm not even sure if that's the right term.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I can get back to making my table now. To handle the bigger wood safely and accurately needed to make extensions for my saw table and I also made a miter sled.


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## Stick (Aug 23, 2007)

*Me Likey!!*



bigredc said:


> I can get back to making my table now. To handle the bigger wood safely and accurately needed to make extensions for my saw table and I also made a miter sled.


I really like your sled!! I'll take two please!!!:laughing:


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## Boardman (Sep 9, 2007)

bigred - I don't think "capturing" the maple - putting it inside a frame of walnut like you show - will work out too well. At 7%MC the maple will definitely expand in the more humid summertime and pop the mitred corners. True breadboard ends are designed to allow for this seasonal expansion/contraction. You could also just put walnut borders on just the sides. In either case the top needs to be joined to the legs in a way that will also allow for the expansion/contraction. A longish slotted hole with the screws not overly tightened will accomplish this.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I went to start the dato for the bread board today and I realized there was to much arch in the board. I was thinking when I put the breadboard on, it would flatten out the top. The more I though about it, I figured when I cut the dato it would be flat to the table, not follow the arch. I'm only talking about a 1/64 if that. I don't know if it's going to get worse, so I ripped the boards and glued them back together. This wood is not kiln dried. It's just dried outside, I just checked the top, I'm getting 0 mc. I was really looking forward to wrapping it all the way around. My house is very dry this time of year. Do you feel pretty confadent it will blow out. I wanted to use maple wedges for the mitered corners. What do you mean by true breadboard. I'm going to start on the base and maybe some other people will give their opinion. I'll go from there. I've been following another thread about attaching a coffee table top and I just picked up a Magazine that had an article "4 ways to attach a table top". Z clips, wood blocks, figure 8s, slotted stretchers. What do you think of cutting slots in the braces that are parallel to the ends in 4 places and anchor it thru them


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

This is a test leg.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I practiced doing the whole joint.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

That's looking pretty good bigredc. The boy has talent.

Gerry


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Here we go.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Boardman said:


> bigred - I don't think "capturing" the maple - putting it inside a frame of walnut like you show - will work out too well. At 7%MC the maple will definitely expand in the more humid summertime and pop the mitred corners. True breadboard ends are designed to allow for this seasonal expansion/contraction. You could also just put walnut borders on just the sides. In either case the top needs to be joined to the legs in a way that will also allow for the expansion/contraction. A longish slotted hole with the screws not overly tightened will accomplish this.


I figured out how to get the walnut on 4 sides without having to worry about it blowing out. I'm gluing the side walnut to the top just like it's part of the maple. Then I will do the breadboard like a normal breadboard. I guess calling the sides breadboard wasn't correct? When I explained my idea to a few guy's they said, "like breadboard" I said I guess. So that's what I've been calling it.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I finally got the base done. It's just has one coat of tung oil on it for now. Thank goodness for wood filler. the mortis & tenon's came out good, everything else sucked.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Looking good from here. I am glad you started this thread, start to finish, with no idea what you had or what to do with it. I think it will help more guys than just yourself :thumbsup:.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

All the testing and planning and I break the leg while I was gluing them up. The clamp kept pulling down on the joint. I pulled up to straiten it out. I did a couple, no problem. I was struggling keeping the wood blocks between the clamp and the leg. I guess the glue set up. I pulled it snapped. I sure the neighbors heard me cursing. As you can see from the last post, I got it together. I have some ideas


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I'm not finished the top yet, but I don't like the way it looks. I think it would look better if it was above the base more, like floating. One idea to kill 2 birds with one stone, I could run dowels vertical strait down thru the top of the leg, into the vertical part of the leg. Then support the top on the dowels a few inches above the base, just a thought. It needs fine tuning.


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## aclose (Nov 11, 2007)

nice write up so far BigRed
i think the legs and base frame turned out great. is this the 'practice' table that you were making for you mother-in-law? or the final product with that nice slab of Maple you had?


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I practiced making a few legs, and basically the whole project is practice. But yes this is all very good wood. I don't know what I'll do with this table when I'm done, probably give it someone or keep it. I'm going to make my mother a more traditional squared off with a drawer type coffee table like this one. I can make my first drawer and probably a few other things for the first time. It probably won't be maple. I can get some alder cheap maybe I'll make it out of that.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Your work is looking good. I was wondering if you might have better luck gluing the legs up if you usd a strap type clamp, and kept the clamping pressure fairly low. You could clamp the legs down on a flat piece of plywood, with the legs straight up, and then wrap the strap around them to pull them together. 

Gerry

Gerry


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Now you tell me. I do have a couple of those straps. It's done now. Maybe you or anyone else could help with this. Every time I use the clamps when I need wood between the clamp and the project, I'm always fighting with them trying to keep them fromm falling out. I've taped them on, glued them on, double sided taped them on. I haven't found a way that works good. Something like the table top isn't a problem I just use one long piece for each side. It's when you need individual ones. On another subject I thought the bread board would be fairly easy. It kicked the crap out of me. I lost about 3" of top from having to start over after playing with it trying not to have a big gap between the board and the top. I put a dato fence on the regular fence. I have an Incra Miter fence, and I still couldn't get a perfectly straitt face for the breadboard to seat against. I had to plane it strait. Then I wind up making it worse. After screwing with them for hours the other day, I finally just said to hell with it an glued it up. After staying away from for a few day's I cut the one end off and started over. I finally got an acceptable fit. My one dowel hole got loose so I had to use a bigger dowel. It's only seen from the bottom, so it's not a big deal.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Just a thought on your clamping issues bigredc:
If you drilled or morticed a hole in the board you are using with your clamp, so that the hole matches the clamp face, it could help keep the board from falling out of position as you ty to position and tension your clamp. the hole would only need to be about 1/2 inch deep, just enough to help you hang onto the board.

Gerry

PS: Now the question is, why didn't I think of that when I was struggling with clamps and little protective boards?????? I am glad to hear I am not the only one who sometimes has to leave a project alone for a while until I calm down, and think things through.

I guess it's true, sometimes you can't see the forest 'cause of all the trees. Being at arms length from a problem sometimes lets you look at it and think of a solution.
Gerry


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## Scott7975 (Jan 22, 2008)

Daren said:


> the only thing I would change is the joints I circled, they can be improved/made stronger. Anyone else have any ideas how ? This is a community project. Not just me an bigredc .


 
First let me say that is some beautiful wood. I am both new to woodworking and to this forum or I would have chimed in earlier. It may now be a little late.

Have you considered a sliding stop dovetail for those joints? In a leg like that they would be pretty strong I would think.

As for the table top to base joining ... I think I would go for the figure 8's they do their job holding down pretty well and allow for good movement as well.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Hey Scott, I'd like any input. That's why I'm posting all this so if it looks like I'm doing something stupid someone will tell me. It would be nice if one of the pro's did it for one of there projects. I don't know what a sliding dovetail is. I can't picture how It would have been used. It's all done now anyway. I already got the figure 8s. I was going to attach them to the cross braces. I'm sure I could just mount the top on the base and be done, even with the glued leg as long as the only thing it was ever used for was glasses and a TV remote. Just yesterday I was in my living room sitting on my coffee table, maybe that's expecting to much but I'd like to make it stronger. I came up with a good idea last night. In case anyone was wondering, regular work is slow for me this time of year that's why I've had so much time to work on the table and write in this forum. Anyway I'll scan a picture of what I plan on doing.


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## Scott7975 (Jan 22, 2008)

All i mean by a sliding stop dovetail..

its just a dovetail that you would make at the joint similar to a drawer dovetail joint. The difference is only that it would be longer in length. It would it go flush from top of piece and it would stop about an inch or so from the bottom so the piece would not slide all the way through(just like a stop dado). My terminology on what its called may be wrong but thats what I call it lol.

If you goto www.thewoodwhisperer.com and watch his newest video you will see exactly what I mean. Its actually where I got the idea from.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi bigredc

Have a look at the thread "Help I'm in trouble, Oak table cracking"
It shows some things to avoid when making a solid wood table.

Gerry


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Gerry KIERNAN said:


> Hi bigredc
> 
> Have a look at the thread "Help I'm in trouble, Oak table cracking"
> It shows some things to avoid when making a solid wood table.
> ...


Because of this forum I have a good idea how to do the top. I know how it's supposed to be done, it's just doing it that's the problem. I'm getting there. I got the modifications done to the legs, it turned out good.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)




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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)




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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

I'm not an expert, but I see something that I think would make a difference...

Note, the joint at the top of each leg... It has Vertical Grain (with the leg) going Horizontally, what looks to be 3-4"... That looks weak to me... it would want to break in that section.

If the Horizontal pieces were jointed closer to the leg top, reducing the span of Vertical grain going Horizontally, it would seem to me to be a whole lot stronger... Horizontal grain going horiz. as much as possible and Vertical Grain going Vert. as much as possible.

I hope I've described it so you can understand my thoughts...

If I'm wrong, I'd sure like to know how & why.

Thank you.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Thanks for the input. If you go back to the first page that's the main topic. Trying to figure out how to overcome what 
appears to be a design flaw. Your idea sounds feasible. I wish I would have thought of it a few weeks ago. I knew I could do horizontal dowels, but after much discussion, I though the walnut would be strong enough.. The way I have it now is very strong. Hopefully other people will learn from my mistakes. I wish other people would do something similar with there projects. With a digital camera it's pretty easy.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

bigredc said:


> Thanks for the input. If you go back to the first page that's the main topic. Trying to figure out how to overcome what
> appears to be a design flaw. Your idea sounds feasible. I wish I would have thought of it a few weeks ago. I knew I could do horizontal dowels, but after much discussion, I though the walnut would be strong enough.. The way I have it now is very strong. Hopefully other people will learn from my mistakes. I wish other people would do something similar with there projects. With a digital camera it's pretty easy.


OK, I'm sorry I didn't notice way back when...

My first thought of the joint would be a horizontal Dovetail in the leg top leaving maybe 3/8" from leg edges... then a matching DT Pin in the Main Horiz. piece. The Horiz. grain then would be right on top of the leg (within 3/8" of edge) giving maximum strength of wood on wood.
You could see the DT looking down at the leg.

The joint could then be modified to provide some more lateral strength (if desired)... with a vert. inside groove down from the leg top for a matching lower tenon in the Horiz. top piece. (and smoothly blended with leg, as now)

Just thinking off the top of my head now... and too late...

What you have, I think is looking REAL pretty & strong... will be nice to see the finished piece.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Nice to meet you Joe
My name is Chris. I guess you can tell by the name of the post. I've only got back into woodworking in the last 6-9 months. I had it in school for 6 years, but that was 30 years ago. I started with some boxes and a few simple things. I kind of believe in diving in head first. Trial and error. The main reason I posted my progress, I was hoping people would chime in and tell me what I'm doing wrong. This is just kind of a test project. Even though I can't use your method on this project, I'm pretty sure I know what you mean. so I'll know to use it in the future. Thanks.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I need and answer please? I'm not going any further till I get one. I'm trying to finish the top. I had a lot of tearout from useing a hand plane instead of the elec. one. I just got done sanding both sides 50-60-100-150 grit. I thought I got all the tearout. I didn't. How noticeable will this tearout be? I'm just using tung oil and wax. Should I start over and get it all or just finish it?


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi bigredc

I went back and looked at your earlier posts, showing the end grain and face grain of the wood. It is highly figured, and my guess is that the wood is waving up and down along the length of the board. When you plane it, and catch the back side of the wave it is all good, but when you catch the front side of the wave the plane tends to dig in, and hence your tear out. I know that with any kind of varnish the tear out would show up something awful, but I have not used tung oil, so maybe it is more forgiving. Daren will probably tell you that one. If his answer is yes, it will show, then I think you will have to do a lot of sanding, as any effort with a plane will probably result in more tear out. A belt sander might be more effective, until you have eliminated the tear out, and then you could go to a pad sander, and then final with hand sanding.
Just my guess, if I'm way off base, somebody please correct me.

The legs are looking great.

Gerry


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I finally finished it. I'm still fighting the finish. I put to much tung oil on it first time. I sanded it down, and then just put one coat after sanding. I'm waxing with bee's wax. I'm not getting the high gloss finish. I don't even know if you can with tung oil. I'll keep playing with it. It's something to practice on.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I think it looks cool. Have you got a shot that shows the figure in the top?


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## aclose (Nov 11, 2007)

i agree with Daren, very cool. turned out nice for your 'welcome back to WW'ing' project. :thumbsup:


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I can't remember if I brought this table up ever in this thread about bigredc's table. The spalted figured maple looked awful familiar in his first pics even rough sanded. I made a little table out of a piece real similar, that is why I wanted to see the top of his finished. This post is from July 2007. I had to search to find it (that is why some of the words are *bold red*, they were my search words. I guess everyone knows about the search function up at the top ?) http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=845&highlight=needed+a+table


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I didn't go anywere I've just been laying low working on my shop. It started to rain the other day.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

You showed me that table when I first started mine, I forgot all about it. I want to my top shiny like yours. The curling in yours is something else. It looks like a mountain range.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

That top is killer looking I think. Good job.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

Very NICE... especially, the Top!

It turned out very well after... your work paid off!

Thank you for the final project results.


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