# How do I make a board perfectly square?



## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Hi folks. I've spent a lot of time reading these forums but this is my first time posting. Please be gentle.

I am beginner in every sense of the word and don't have a clue what I'm doing. I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can from books and reading forums like these. I am primarily interested in using hand tools, largely because of cost but also because I think hand tools are a bit more fun.

As my first project I'd like to make a simple, small, rectangular box. However, as I'm sure you guys know better than me, I need to have stock that is square and flat on all sides. And I need boards to be essentially identical in all their dimensions.

But I can't seem to figure out how to do it. I've read the books and read the tutorials and for the life of me I cannot make a board square and even on all sides. 

The biggest problem I'm having is getting the edges and ends of the board flat and square to the rest of it. Every time I try to do it I end up an edge that is not straight or level. And the resulting boards are NOT identical in their dimensions.

I know the basics are to rip to approximate width, crosscut to approximate width, flatten the board, and then square the edges (I think).

The embarrassing part is that I'm not even using rough lumber. I'm using poplar I got from Rockler which is already pretty flat and square (just not square enough). Thus this should be easy for anyone even mildly competent.

I have plenty of tools and the problem does not lie with the tools, it lies with me.

I realize this is a broad question but... how do I make a board square? 

The pieces I'm trying to use now are about 8 inches long, 6 inches wide, and 3/4 of an inch thick. The boards seem to be quite straight without any immediately noticeable warping.

I don't have a jointer or a planer and won't have them anytime soon. Though they are in my future. I also feel I should learn to do this by hand anyways.

The thing that is especially irking me is not being able to square up the end grain edges of my pieces. Even if I clamp them together and try to plane them flat, I end up with more an inclined ramp than a straight line.

These are the tools I have (from what I've read they should be more than enough):

Three combination squares (16, 12, and 6 inch respectively).
Two try squares, one being a very accurate engineer's square from Lee Valley
Basic wood chisels
Clamps
Rulers, yardstick, and a 24 inch straight edge
Sliding T bevel
Small and large framing squares
Carpenter's triangle (aka speed square)
Protractors
A couple of crappy crosscut hand saws
A sliding compound miter saw (this thing alone should allow me to get square edges)
Circular saw
Levels
Three planes. An old Bailey (which works fine), a block plane, and a lovely Veritas low angle jack plane. Yes, the blades are sharpened on all of them.
Large X-acto knife for marking
A very dinky metal working vice

I don't have a workbench with vises or bench dogs. I have a not terribly level table that I'm using.

I've got other basic household stuff like a drill, hammers, sanding block, etc.

I know it's possible to make a board perfectly square with even less tools than this. I've got to be screwing something up along the way, perhaps a great deal.

Suggestions would be appreciated. 

Thanks in advance.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

First, welcome aboard. You will gets lots of reply's to your question.

If you are thinking about your problem as much as you are writing about it then you are over thinking the problem. All you need to get that board rectangular (square means all sides equal. I think what you mean is each corner square) is a carpenters square or a combination square and a very sharp pencil or marking knife.

Of course the tools must themselves have 90 degree corners. Do you know how to check that?

Is your real problem the sawing of the boards or marking the correct lines on the board?

George


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## Bonka (Mar 24, 2011)

*Square*

You have a LV LA Jack plane. Make a shooting board and shoot the ends. There are plenty of sites on the Net that show how to make them. You Tube also has many tutorials on their use. Use scraps until you get the hang ofit.


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

Welcome and hang in - George is right. You are over thinking this. You started with machined stock and if you haven't put a plane on all the edges, you should still have at least one "true" edge. First thing you need is a flat surface, even if you put a piece of plywood or mdf on that table you have. Place a board on its' long edge with a light source in the background and try to see if you have any light seeping through between the board's edge and the flat surface. If you need to shave a high spot or 2 off some edges, do it in increments until you stop the light from coming through. Even if just a tad of light appears, it's OK to be very close.

Once you have a straight edge, carefully measure the length and mark it with a sharp knife (a pencil mark is to thick for making boxes). Take your board to the miter saw, place the tip of a tooth on your mark, clamp the board and cut it. Besides having square corners, your opposite boards of a box need to be identical in length. I have a table saw and to get repeated identical lengths of boards, I place a strong magnet on my table well in advance of the blade and I place it to the left of the blade as far away as to get the proper length. I can then butt my board against the magnet and cut. I can repeat the butts and cuts 100 times and get 100 boards of identical lengths. Maybe you can fasten a stop on your miter saw to get identical lengths.

Back to square 1 - think about what George said and relax. We've all been where you're at now and we've all had to learn to relax and enjoy or great hobby. As you progress over the years, 1 basic rule to keep in mind is that we all make mistakes. Some of us know how to hide our mistakes better then others. Have fun!


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## Horatio (Apr 4, 2012)

If you're committed to using hand tools check out a dude named Roy Underhill. Hes got a show on PBS and several books. He useshand tools in traditional methods to build stuff and is pretty entertaining.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

First thing to do is to ensure your square's are really square.

Several threads recently on how to make a square be square.

First take your square against a straight edge and draw a line at 90deg. Flip the square over horizontally on the 90 deg side and draw another line. These two should be parallel. If so, good to use. If not, go and buy a better square.

Once you have a good reference square, use this to check your SCMS. Most of these ship with the fence "close" but not exact. I have a good model and it was also "close". Either it was close at the factory, or it was exact at the factory and nudged out of true during shipping, which is easy to imagine.

Once the SCMS is calibrated, you should be able to cut your stock to have square ends.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*as suggested start with one surface, not an edge*

Mark all of your best looking surfaces with an "X" or other mark. That will be the "reference" or Master surface.
Next look for a good straight edge on the other pieces that is square to the master by sighting it and holding your square on the reference surface and onto the edge. Mark the four edges that are good with another mark like a no. 2. This are your reference edges.
Now with the reference edges resting on a flat surface, clamp them all together forming a block. 
Measure up from the good edges across the block, on both sides, a line that's parallel to the reference edge. It will require 4 marks and 2 lines. 
Now you can plane the block down to those parallel lines on all the edges until they are uniform. By having the broader surface of a block it's easier to make certain the plane is staying square to the block rather than "balancing" it on only one edge.
Now as suggested you can make a "shooting block" for squaring the ends. You will want one of these for certain and there are many You Tube videos or plans for them on the web.





Start with one end, make it square then do all the rest on one end. Find the shortest piece to use as a reference and make all the others that same dimension.
In your case you wanted all the piece the same length, but the process would be the same until the final step on the shooting board where you can make them different lengths.

You said you had a sliding miter saw. It must be set up correctly to cut a square cut, so make a practice cut and check it for square. If it's not then the fence may need to be adjusted. It's rather unlikely that your square isn't square, but that's also a possibility.  bill


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Thank you for the replies! The more the merrier. I'll try some of this and post with results when I get home from work.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Got a spare moment to post....

I'm not certain I do have a good reference edge on this board. Like I said, it looks pretty good but when I crosscut it on the miter saw I get a slightly non square end. I'm going to triple check but I believe the fence on the miter saw is square. However, since the edge of the board I'm putting up against the saw is not square, I'm getting non straight cuts out of it. I cut some MDF on the thing and as far as I could tell the cut was perfectly straight.

I think the board is also pretty flat but there are a few marks on the faces (milling marks I think) so it may not be totally perfect.

I tried to make a shooting board and the problem is that none of my wood is perfectly straight. Therefore the top board on my shooting board isn't straight. Which makes the shooting board essentially useless. I can get some more MDF and work off of pre cut faces of the panel...


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

"However, since the edge of the board I'm putting up against the saw is not square"

One edge of a board is never referred to as square. It is straight or it is not straight. It takes two edges to form an angle, whether or not that angle is square or some other degree. The edge against the fence should be straight.

Do you mean that the edge of the board that you are putting against the saw fence is not straight?

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it's kind of an omission ...*



GeorgeC said:


> *"However, since the edge of the board I'm putting up against the saw is not square"* (...to the surface?)
> 
> One edge of a board is never referred to as square. It is straight or it is not straight. It takes two edges to form an angle, whether or not that angle is square or some other degree. The edge against the fence should be straight.
> 
> ...


WE are splitting hairs here, but it is important to know exactly what the issue is. Since the original question was about using hand tools, the fence issue is kinda separate from that discussion, but still relevant. if all else fails..... JMO. bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

If we are going to stick with the original issue, what George said holds true...


GeorgeC said:


> One edge of a board is never referred to as square. It is straight or it is not straight. It takes two edges to form an angle, whether or not that angle is square or some other degree.


The only two handtools needed would be a hand saw and a handplane. In making a shooting board, the shooting edge when fixed to a factory edge (like plywood), can be as straight as needed. If the solid wood is dimensional it will be flat enough and likely thicknessed to close enough dimensions to qualify for the shooting edge.

Any board can have one edge straightened with a handplane and the shooting board. To size the panel, use the handsaw to cut the line. Then that edge is handplaned on the shooting board. This process puts a straight edge, or can create a 90° corner with handplaning. What else it does is create a flat edge that's 90° to the faces.









 







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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

You are correct, I should have said the edge against the miter saw fence was not straight. I apologize for the confusion. Because that edge isn't straight (even though the saw fence is) it causes the cut to be non straight. Though this saw has a laser guide so I wonder if I could just clamp a board into it and use the laser guide as a reference....

To manufacture the shooting board I'm going to need some stuff like plywood or MDF that has at least one perfectly straight edge, yes? To serve as a reference?

And thank you all for your replies. It is appreciated. As you can probably tell I am tearing my hair out over this. It seems so *basic* that even an idiot like me should be able to understand and do this.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Purrmaster said:


> You are correct, I should have said the edge against the miter saw fence was not straight.


Getting to basics, you don't need to have a straight edge on a panel, but you can create a 90° perpendicular to a straight line that you draw.

All you need is a ruler or one of the metal yardsticks you can get at HD for less than $10. Pick up a compass while you are there, and they have some that have some pretty good swings, like this.

Starting with a straight line, it goes like this...(click on "run").









 







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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

Once your stock suits you and you start the box, check here for how to mark the parts:
http://jbsmallcabinetshop.blogspot.com/2010/11/how-to-mark-box.html


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

Purrmaster said:


> You are correct, I should have said the edge against the miter saw fence was not straight. I apologize for the confusion. Because that edge isn't straight (even though the saw fence is) it causes the cut to be non straight. Though this saw has a laser guide so I wonder if I could just clamp a board into it and use the laser guide as a reference....
> 
> To manufacture the shooting board I'm going to need some stuff like plywood or MDF that has at least one perfectly straight edge, yes? To serve as a reference?
> 
> And thank you all for your replies. It is appreciated. As you can probably tell I am tearing my hair out over this. It seems so *basic* that even an idiot like me should be able to understand and do this.


Well, SOME of these guys make mistakes, but not me. I have never, ever miscut, mismarked, mismeasured a piece of wood or plywood in my entire life. Yes I'm that good. NOW that we got that bs out of the way :laughing: yep you're over stressing over this. If the material you purchased was not rough sawn then you have at least 2 surfaces that are true unless the piece cupped. I rather doubt that the short pieces would have crooked. Lay your square on the face of the board and sight to see if there is a gap under its edge. No gap, surface is flat. One edge should be 90 degrees to that surface.
Buy some pine and work with it. You will gain a lot just making wood shavings. Good Luck and Welcome to the forum. I haven't been here very long but already I know it's the best out there. :thumbsup:


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

Woodbutcher is right-on here, his method of placing a straight edge is the same I tried to describe using a flat surface. A straight edge along one of the two long edges will also reveal a true edge if no gap is visible. Once you have 1 true edge, you can square the others.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Once again, my thanks. I think I'm going to get a piece of MDF and try to make a shooting board out of it. I am not certain I do have a straight edge (or straight enough edge) on the board. When I crosscut pieces off of it and then stack said pieces together, the width of the pieces is not the same. They are usually off by several millimeters.


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> Mark all of your best looking surfaces with an "X" or other mark. That will be the "reference" or Master
> You said you had a sliding miter saw. It must be set up correctly to cut a square cut, so make a practice cut and check it for square. If it's not then the fence may need to be adjusted. It's rather unlikely that your square isn't square, but that's also a possibility.  bill


 
The first thing I would do would be to check that your mite saw is at 90degrees to the fence and it is indeed set at o' degrees.

You can check that with a square that you have confirmed is 90 degrees. If that is correct, then do what the others here have suggested.

But I will bet that 90 per cent of your trouble is the has not been set up correctly or has come out of alignment which can happen often and should be checked quite often.

When you find out, let us know, so we can avoid the error ourselves.

Pete


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I just spent the last two hours trying to make a shooting board out of my MDF. I made the cuts with my circular saw. I was pretty sure I had a straight side or two left from the original edges of the panel. I used the engineer's square to create a mark and then aligned my straight edge to it. Then I clamped the straight edge to the panel and used it as a guide to hold the circular saw in place. I tried this in different configurations, multiple times. And none of the pieces I ended up with had a straight edge across the entire length of the cut. I'm obviously doing something wrong. I'll get some more MDF but I doubt I'll be able to do any better.

To check the miter saw, I assume I have to use the try squares to check the blade against the fence? I shall try and do that.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Purrmaster said:


> I just spent the last two hours trying to make a shooting board out of my MDF. I made the cuts with my circular saw. I was pretty sure I had a straight side or two left from the original edges of the panel. I used the engineer's square to create a mark and then aligned my straight edge to it. Then I clamped the straight edge to the panel and used it as a guide to hold the circular saw in place. I tried this in different configurations, multiple times. And none of the pieces I ended up with had a straight edge across the entire length of the cut. I'm obviously doing something wrong. I'll get some more MDF but I doubt I'll be able to do any better.
> 
> To check the miter saw, I assume I have to use the try squares to check the blade against the fence? I shall try and do that.


Try this: Take any substrate...plywood or MDF and on the factory edge, fasten a piece of dimensional lumber that you might have. It doesn't have to be special, even a stock piece of 1x4 will do. Fasten it so the ¾" edge is flush with the top face of the substrate panel. Then at the far end, fasten a strip of wood @ 90° to the right edge, across the substrate panel to act as a stop. 

This is your basic shooting board. Then of course you need a handplane, and there are a few that will work, providing they are sharp and adjusted for minimal removal.









 







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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I was going to make a shooting board that way except I don't have any lumber that I can trust to be properly dimensioned. I sighted down the edges of the poplar boards I got from Rockler and the edges are not straight. There is a noticeable angle to them. The same thing appears to be the case for the faces of the boards. 

For the shooting board I suppose I could get one of the hardwood boards at Home Depot. I believe those come already dimensioned and/or squared.

I think I'm fairly well covered for handplanes. The Veritas low angle jack is a pretty nice piece of equipment. It's not great for hogging off a lot of material but I don't think that's what it is designed for. The old Bailey jack I've got works well too. I must say that planing (at least when doing it with the grain) is the most enjoyable part of woodworking I've encountered so far.

This may fall into the category of stupid questions but... how do you keep from planing the shooting board?

You guys were right. The miter saw isn't perfectly aligned. The fence itself seems to be square but the blade is not at a perfect 90 degree angle. I can tell that when making cuts. Using the sliding feature to cut longer boards seems to magnify the problem. I know the saw can be fine adjusted but I'm not sure how to ensure that the blade is at a correct 90 degree angle. I'll re-read the manual and see if it has instructions.

Funny thing is, I could have sworn the thing was making perfect straight cuts when we got it a month ago.

Maybe I shouldn't rely on any portion of the board as a reference face. In the Peter Korn book I've been working off of he basically says to flatten a face and then use that as a reference. I think the faces are flat but not flat enough.

Again, many thanks for the replies. I am reading them with great interest.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*let's deal with the miter saw first*

You said;
You guys were right. The miter saw isn't perfectly aligned. The fence itself seems to be square but the* blade is not at a perfect 90 degree angle.* I can tell that when making cuts. Using the sliding feature to cut longer boards seems to magnify the problem. I know the saw can be fine adjusted but I'm not sure how to ensure that the blade is at a correct 90 degree angle. I'll re-read the manual and see if it has instructions.

There are 2 things that need to be square to the blade, the fence and the table. The fence must be square to the blade to make cross cuts that are 90 degree cuts rather than 89 degrees cuts across the board. It can be adjusted usually be looseneing the bolts that attach it to the table, Do that first.

Next check to see if the blade is square to the table, if not you will be cutting "bevels" on the end of the board. Set a square on the table surface and run it up to the plane of the blade being careful to miss the teeth and just bear against the plane of the blade. The adjustment for that should be on the rear of the table where the arm connects. Your manual will show you how. It could be that the angle or bevel setting lock knob is just loose and need to be tightened or the detent needs to be reset for 90 degrees.

The terminology you use to describe the issues here is critical and needs to be correct or the answers will not be what you seek and incorrect.

Let's see if I can help.
Boards have *surfaces*, which need to be straight and flat. "Level" is somewhat confusing term, where as "flat" means no bumps or hollows.

Boards have edges which need to be straight and square to the surface. An edge can be straight and still be a bevel or not 90 degrees to the surface.

When working with uneven boards or rough sawn, I always start with one surface and joint it or plane it flat. That is the reference surface to which all other edges and surface are compared to. When you have one flat surface you can plane or joint one edge at 90 degrees to it.
Then the opposite edge can be made parallel to that edge by marking and hand sawing and planing OR on a table saw by ripping it while holding the square edge against the fence.
The next step is to make the ends square to the edges. This can be down by marking and sawing OR if they are close to the desired dimension using the "shooting board" method.

If you don't yet have straight and square boards it won't be possible to make an accurate shooting board. So for that you will need to get some new stock whether it's MDF, plywood or hardwood in some combination. You can make ends square by constantly checking with a square, but it will take time and many steps.

Then the final step is to plane the remaining surface so it's parallel to the first reference surface. This is the most difficult of all the steps, since it's the largest. If you get this far with a handplane, then it's just a matter of making the correct marks and planing down to them on the edges and checking constantly. :yes: bill


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

Purrmaster;358238
You guys were right. The miter saw isn't perfectly aligned. The fence itself seems to be square but the blade is not at a perfect 90 degree angle. I can tell that when making cuts. Using the sliding feature to cut longer boards seems to magnify the problem. I know the saw can be fine adjusted but I'm not sure how to ensure that the blade is at a correct 90 degree angle. I'll re-read the manual and see if it has instructions.
Funny thing is said:


> I think now you have realised that things we take for granted like a mitre Saw need to be tuned up and regularly checked. As you said you could swear it was right previously, and it possibly was.
> 
> Now for the time being recheck it with a small square that you have proved is 90 degrees correct.
> 
> ...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Purrmaster said:


> For the shooting board I suppose I could get one of the hardwood boards at Home Depot. I believe those come already dimensioned and/or squared.


That would be the easy way.



Purrmaster said:


> This may fall into the category of stupid questions but... how do you keep from planing the shooting board?


Eventually that can happen



Purrmaster said:


> You guys were right. The miter saw isn't perfectly aligned. The fence itself seems to be square but the blade is not at a perfect 90 degree angle. I can tell that when making cuts. Using the sliding feature to cut longer boards seems to magnify the problem. I know the saw can be fine adjusted but I'm not sure how to ensure that the blade is at a correct 90 degree angle. I'll re-read the manual and see if it has instructions.
> 
> Funny thing is, I could have sworn the thing was making perfect straight cuts when we got it a month ago.


So, if we are back to talking about the miter saw, the terminology can be confusing. Checking a CMS, or a SCMS, is a lot like checking a RAS. The term "bevel" is just that, it's the angle that the blade is graduated off from a 90° vertical.

The miter is the angle that is created across the plane of the table. If you are getting cuts that are off, the basic setup for the saw may be off some. Or, you could have some debris of some sort either under the subject piece, or between the subject piece and the fence.









 







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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

I'll go way out on a limb here, and even saw it off, but my suggestion:
make a box. 
If you want to make a perfect box the first time, consider dentistry.

These initial thoughts are incorrect:

I need to have stock that is square and flat on all sides. And I need boards to be essentially identical in all their dimensions.

You can make a fantastic box with material which does not satisfy any of that. And it will have more life to it than a static, perfect object. (Measure some antiques...in fact, start by repairing some old stuff. This is what teaches the most about woodworking, repair and restoration...see how the old guys did it...and sometimes how-not-to-do-it!)

Just jump in and make something, instead of fussing about straight and square. 
Your tenth, or hundredth box will be pretty nice.
Hell, I still have my first box, for humility's sake. 
My second box, I decided to hand-dovetail.
I removed the same wood from adjoining pieces. 
Needless to say, the box got smaller.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Purrmaster, I am going to make a suggestion that I think will be of a great help to you. 

Do you know any high school student that is studying geometry. If not ask around your friends and see if they have a child who is taking this course. Regardless, find a geometry student. Ask/hire him to sit down with you and go over the basics of geometry.

You need to see and have him demonstrate things like the tern square. You need to learn that this term can NEVER to used to describe any ONE object line a line, fence, etc. For any item to have the term square used with it it must be associated with another item. eg. The fence is SQUARE to the blade. The fence is SQAUARE to the table. etc.

Get some lumber and have him show you how the terms apply to it. It would be best if this student was also a student of woodworking or machine shop.

Good luck.

George


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

Purrmaster said:


> I just spent the last two hours trying to make a shooting board out of my MDF. I made the cuts with my circular saw. I was pretty sure I had a straight side or two left from the original edges of the panel. I used the engineer's square to create a mark and then aligned my straight edge to it. Then I clamped the straight edge to the panel and used it as a guide to hold the circular saw in place. I tried this in different configurations, multiple times. And none of the pieces I ended up with had a straight edge across the entire length of the cut. I'm obviously doing something wrong. I'll get some more MDF but I doubt I'll be able to do any better.
> 
> To check the miter saw, I assume I have to use the try squares to check the blade against the fence? I shall try and do that.


 Try this; bring your miter saw all the way down (not running of course) and hold it there. Take your square (not a tri square) and lay one leg of it against the fence and the other leg against the face of the sawblade making sure the leg against the fence is held tight. There should be no gap between the sawblade and the square's edge (unless it's laying against a tooth), if there is a gap, your saw is out of alignment. Refer to your manual and make the needed adjustment. (I would unplug the saw)


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodbutcher360 said:


> Try this; bring your miter saw all the way down (not running of course) and hold it there. Take your square (not a tri square) and lay one leg of it against the fence and the other leg against the face of the sawblade making sure the leg against the fence is held tight. There should be no gap between the sawblade and the square's edge (unless it's laying against a tooth), if there is a gap, your saw is out of alignment. Refer to your manual and make the needed adjustment. (I would unplug the saw)


Maybe he should do that with the saw set for a 90° or 0° cut (depending on how the saw is labeled).









 







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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

I thought he was going to use hand tools!
Get a shiny handsaw and start sawing...look at the reflection of the board in the saw. If it lines-up with the board, keep sawing. If the reflection is at an angle to the board, move the saw until they line up and saw away.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Once again, fantastic replies. I'l post more later. A few thoughts.

You are absolutely right that terminology has to be correct and I could definitely use some fine (or perhaps rough) tuning of my vocabulary. The whole point of language is to facilitate communication and if I'm not on the same page as the rest of you guys then communication becomes.... problematic.

I imagine I somehow knocked the saw out of alignment. I just now noticed that the laser guide line is skewed as well. I hope I didn't knock the laser out of alignment because I'm not sure I can fix that.

As far as hand tools go: I like working with hand tools but I have no problem with power tools. I'm not married to either philosophy. Whatever works, works. I don't have the power tools because of cost. I'm going to get a (low end) jointer within the a month or so, I hope. After that I hope to get a starter planer. After that... probably a router. Bandsaws are table saws will have to wait some time. Not just because of cost, but because of space. I'm working in a small garage and my mother is getting ready to beat me about the head and shoulders because she can't get her car in there anymore. I have a barn with some space to work in but the floor is dirt (and obviously not level), the temperature fluctuates wildly, and there are few power outlets. Even so, I may have to move my operations to the barn and hope for the best.

Even if someone plopped the ultimate power tool workshop in my lap I'd still like to learn how to do things with hand tools simply because I feel that is.... proper.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

JBSmall said:


> ...Just jump in and make something...


I am on board with this. I am no pro (very very far from it), but I do know that it is easiest to lean from doing. If you fixate on this one impediment, then you aren't making any forward progress. Build a box. Finish it this week. Then sit down and evaluate it and see what you can do better. I feel like you're spinning your wheels here. Maybe with your first box, assume that your poplar is square enough. Re-calibrate your miter saw and build it!


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I got some MDF for shooting board making and... it turns out the edges of the MDF weren't straight either. It was higher in the middle. I tried to cobble something together with a try square and my combination squares. 

I'm going to have to investigate how to micro-adjust the miter saw.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Update: Technology may save me. Harbor Freight (yes, point and laugh) has their 6 inch jointer on sale. Coupled with a 20% off coupon, that makes it affordable for me. I am aware this is far from the best jointer there is. But I've read all the online reviews I could find, including the sites that track the Harbor Freight "gems" and the consensus seems to be that it's a decent machine once it is properly set up.

I'm hoping this tool will allow me to make a good, reliable reference face I can use to make my boards square. I still need to work on that miter saw. I'm currently sharpening my plane irons.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Great!*

That's not a bad jointer, so I've heard. Let's hope you like it and will post a review so we will all will know for certain. I have an older Chinese made 6" jointer and it works great. 2 adjustable tables, in and outfeed, on hand cranks like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-industrial-rabbeting-jointer-30289.html

Just be very careful and when jointing thinner material, under 3/4" thick, use a push block. Watch for cracks and knots that may give way during surfacing. Set the fence 90 degrees to the table with the stop and recheck it after you tighten it down, because sometimes it moves a bit. Use a good metal square and look for any sliver of light when setting it. This is the key to getting good square edges after surfacing. 
If they don't say so in the "instructions" make the height of the outfeed table the same at the tips of the cutters when you rotate them. Just put a flat piece of material on the outfeed and rotate the belt by hand, lowering the table until the block doesn't move. You can hear it just barely touching and that will be close enough without fancy measuring tools.
:yes: bill


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Thank you. I was under the impression that you want the infeed and the outfeed tables to be exactly the same height. I'm hoping my 24" straight edge will be good enough, though I measured the entire length of the tables at 48 inches, so it may be of limited utility. I have read that most jointers require a lot of fine tuning to get flat boards out of. I'm a bit uneasy about that but them's the breaks.

I considered writing some reviews of the tools I've gotten (my Veritas plane, for example) but I'm not sure I have sufficient expertise or experience to give a proper review.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

> Thank you. I was under the impression that you want the infeed and the outfeed tables to be exactly the same height. I'm hoping my 24" straight edge will be good enough, though I measured the entire length of the tables at 48 inches, so it may be of limited utility.
> 
> 
> > That's only to check to see if they both align IE if they are co-planer.
> ...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Purrmaster said:


> Thank you. I was under the impression that you want the infeed and the outfeed tables to be exactly the same height.


The infeed and outfeed tables will not be on the same level, but they should be co-planer, which means that when the outfeed table is set for the height of the knives, the distance the infeed table is lowered is what will be taken off. 

With that setting, co-planer means that although the two tables are offset, if a straightedge is laid across both, the gap between them will be even.









 







.


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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

Smarty-pants Patches writes: the word is coplanar.


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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

Purrmaster said:


> Even if someone plopped the ultimate power tool workshop in my lap I'd still like to learn how to do things with hand tools simply because I feel that is.... proper.


I agree with that feeling.
By learning to do every operation by hand, you develop a sense of what force is required, develop body-memory, and you become a safer power-tool-user in the future. Also, the pleasure of hand-tool use might just save you not just money, but your lungs, hearing, fingers, sight....even time if you consider the greater economy...

A satirical quote of a Norm Abrams-type: "Honey, I wanna build a dove-cote....can I have eighty-thousand dollars?"


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

If I had to do much with hand tools it would be a disaster. I was never able to even cut a straight line with a hand saw.

I have absolutely no desire to go the hand tool route, even for the learning experience. I have power tools, I love power tools and I will use power tools.

George


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I, personally, don't think there's a right or way wrong with hand vs power tools. If I had a table saw, I'd use it. If I had a tenon saw, I'd use it. Who am I say how someone should be doing their woodworking?

I got the jointer home. Now it's time for assembly. If anyone has any tips for jointers, this model especially, I'd love to hear them. I got a 48 inch long level to help me with the tables. A precision straight edge it is not, but perhaps it will be handy. If the thing works I'll probably get a second set of knives and send them out for professional sharpening.

On an unrelated note, the 3M microfinishing (or is it micro finishing?) film from Tools for Working with Wood is good stuff. It's hardier than I expected it to be. And it does seem to last quite a while, though not as long as some have claimed. If you stick to the glass with water under the adhesive you can unstick it and stick it back several times.

On an even more unrelated note... has anyone noticed that Klingspor's 2000 grit sandpaper seems much rougher than 3M's 2000 grit sandpaper? I was lapping the back of a blade with the 3M stuff. I was at 1,500 and the back was getting a nice polish. Moved to Klingspor's 2000 girt and it suddenly got a lot rougher on the back.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> If I had to do much with hand tools it would be a disaster. I was never able to even cut a straight line with a hand saw.
> 
> I have absolutely no desire to go the hand tool route, even for the learning experience. I have power tools, I love power tools and I will use power tools.
> 
> George


It may have not been your fault George. If the saw is not sharpened properly and teeth equally set the saw will always cut off line no matter the craftsman's talent. A dull saw or one with the teeth set wrong is the most useless piece of metal in a wood shop. 
A bent saw is better. At least you can cut it up and make scrapers from it.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I almost wonder if I should start another thread for putting together this jointer. It is.... amazingly difficult. The instructions are terrible. Getting my fingers into these spaces is nearly impossible. And now I have to wire the motor and the power cord to the switch. The instructions don't tell you which terminal to attach which wire to or even what side of the switch should go to what cord. I hope it doesn't matter because it's just guesswork at this point. And I got short sheeted on about half of the necessary bolts. Which means I will have to try and get to Home Depot to find some more.

If it performs well when it's all said and done it will be worth it.

On the plus side, it weighs a ton, which should keep it stable and the infeed and outfeed tables are pretty long. And the components themselves (with the possible exception of some of the stand parts seem solid. The motor itself is a big, heavy thing which I hope is a good sign.

I've spent 7 hours putting the thing together and I'm only halfway through.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Purrmaster said:


> I almost wonder if I should start another thread for putting together this jointer. It is.... amazingly difficult. The instructions are terrible. Getting my fingers into these spaces is nearly impossible. And now I have to wire the motor and the power cord to the switch. The instructions don't tell you which terminal to attach which wire to or even what side of the switch should go to what cord. I hope it doesn't matter because it's just guesswork at this point. And I got short sheeted on about half of the necessary bolts. Which means I will have to try and get to Home Depot to find some more.
> 
> If it performs well when it's all said and done it will be worth it.
> 
> ...


Sometimes instructions can be daunting. I would start in the beginning and go step by step as it's detailed in the assembly instructions. Don't skip steps, as it may put you to a part that should have been done in the step before. Could be ones like the ones you can't get to.

Electrical hookup should be detailed in the instructions, or on a label on the motor somewhere, or on the switch. It may be on an inconspicuous place, like under a cover plate.

If parts are missing, HF is very good about returns and CS.









 









.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

There is a wiring diagram in the instructions. You can find a PDF of the manual here: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-industrial-rabbeting-jointer-30289.html

The switch has two sets of contacts. Obviously for positive and negative. But neither the diagram nor the switch makes it obvious which contact is positive and which is negative. I'm hoping it isn't important as long as I keep the wiring the same for both sets of contacts. And put the ground wires onto the ground screw.

I plan to try and run the motor before full assembly. Because I think it will be next to impossible to fiddle with the wiring when everything is put together.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Purrmaster said:


> There is a wiring diagram in the instructions. You can find a PDF of the manual here: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-industrial-rabbeting-jointer-30289.html
> 
> The switch has two sets of contacts. Obviously for positive and negative. But neither the diagram nor the switch makes it obvious which contact is positive and which is negative. I'm hoping it isn't important as long as I keep the wiring the same for both sets of contacts. And put the ground wires onto the ground screw.
> 
> I plan to try and run the motor before full assembly. Because I think it will be next to impossible to fiddle with the wiring when everything is put together.


That motor is an alternating current (AC) motor. AC motors/circuits do not have positive and negative because that term is meaningless to them. The current in an AC circuit alternates direction and does not always go in the same direction like in a direct current (DC) circuit.

Just keep the wiring the same and have no worries.

If you try to run that motor before final assembly be sure that it is somehow firmly held in place where it is to be run. If it cannot be firmly secured then place it on the floor where it cannot fall. The spinning armature in the motor will make it want to move.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*page 26 in the PDF*



Purrmaster said:


> There is a wiring diagram in the instructions. You can find a PDF of the manual here: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-industrial-rabbeting-jointer-30289.html
> 
> The switch has two sets of contacts. * Obviously for positive and negative. But neither the diagram nor the switch makes it obvious which contact is positive and which is negative.
> 
> ...


The wiring diagram shows the white wires tied together and the black wires are interrupted by the switch, a single pole switch. http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/30000-30999/30289.pdf


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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

Maybe there are not many restorers of antiques around here. 
That focus in my vocation certainly causes me to lean toward the use of hand-tools. 
The making of replacement-parts for 18th- and early 19th-century furniture demands the use of appropriate tools, and the leaving of the evidence of their use. 
That doesn't mean I don't use power-tools! It just means that, for the most-part, evidence of their use is obliterated.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

For starters, let's say the "top" of the switch is green button and the "bottom" is the red one. The top has two contacts (with no marking) and the bottom has two contacts (also no marking).

As I read the diagram, you place the power cord contacts on the top. So the white wire from the power cord goes onto the contact and the black wire from the power cord goes onto the contact right next to it.

And you do the same thing for the bottom contacts, except you are running the wires from the motor to the contacts.

Did I get that wrong? Does the top set of contacts take both white wires and the bottom set of contacts take the black wires?

I suspect that if I don't wire it right I could, at best, damage the motor. At worst cause a serious accident that could hurt myself and others.

The picture in the manual only shows the switch with the back cover on. When I get home I'll take a picture of the switch innards and upload them here, if I can.

The top portion appears to be largely already assembled. The knives are installed. But I read somewhere else that I am going to have to take the knives out to clean the gunk off and set them in. Which I hear is a serious pain in the neck.

I couldn't find 8mm carriage screws at Home Depot. So I got 8mm hex head screws (plus nuts and washers). Good thing I have a pretty complete set of sockets and wrenches.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Would it be appropriate to post a new thread in the power tools forum? I was thinking a discussion on this thing might help people in the future. But I don't want to violate forum etiquette.


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## Puma (Jun 28, 2012)

Honestly I didn't read this entire thread so excuse me if my points have already been covered. I recently taught myself how to square a board, at least on the four face sides. Winding sticks help you see twist that is hard to detect. Most importantly, a handplane responds to the pressure exerted on it. When I plane I try to sweep it in an arc, think in terms of a clock face, the beginning of the board is at four o' clock, put pressure on the fore end of the plane, once the plane is completely on the board think even pressure of six o' clock then nearing the end subtly transfer the pressure to eight o'clock. Your body language in this arc will produce a board that's the same height from end to end but not necessarily square. Now realize there's another axis of pressure: side to side. When I put a perfectly square plane blade in a plane I flip it over and sight down the plane looking at a brightly lit, white surface. I carefully square the ends of the blade to each other and start planing. Problem is even with everything aligned perfectly square it still doesn't come out right. The answer to this problem is pressure. Notice that when you the position of your hands will greatly influence the squareness of your cut and this is a good thing because you'll never have to adjust your plane blade to square something. All you have to do is adjust where you apply pressure. It will only take you a few days of experience to master this by feel of your hand. You may not be able to eyeball squareness but you can definitely feel it in your fingers.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Thank you!


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Puma said:


> Honestly I didn't read this entire thread so excuse me if my points have already been covered. I recently taught myself how to square a board, at least on the four face sides.
> 
> Winding sticks help you see twist that is hard to detect. Most importantly, a handplane responds to the pressure exerted on it. When I plane I try to sweep it in an arc, think in terms of a clock face, the beginning of the board is at four o' clock, put pressure on the fore end of the plane, once the plane is completely on the board think even pressure of six o' clock then nearing the end subtly transfer the pressure to eight o'clock. Your body language in this arc will produce a board that's the same height from end to end but not necessarily square.
> 
> ...


I am confused by your description. It seems to me that you are leveling the board, not squaring it.

George


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I'm checking squareness with a try square (though I may be doing it wrong). My hand eye coordination and depth perception are terrible. That's the main reason I'm having such a hard time doing something as simple as squaring a board by hand.

I finally got the Harbor Freight jointer put together. I still need to set the table heights and get a hone for the blades.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*hold on there...*



Purrmaster said:


> I'm checking squareness with a try square (though I may be doing it wrong). *My hand eye* *coordination and depth perception are terrible*. That's the main reason I'm having such a hard time doing something as simple as squaring a board by hand.
> 
> I finally got the Harbor Freight jointer put together. I still need to set the table heights and get a hone for the blades.


A jointer is a "potentially" dangerous tool if you don't understand how to set it up and then how to use it. This will help and there are some others to see at the end/finish. Watch them and as many as you can before jumping in and possibly making a mistake. :yes:





Depth of cut:
To determine how much to lower the infeed/front table make a test cut on the edge of a 24" or longer 1" X 6". 
You have ALREADY set the outfeed/ back table to be flush with the top of the blades/cutters.:yes:
You have raised the infeed/front table so it's also flush.
Now lower the infeed 1/2 a turn which should result in about a 1/32" cut.
Make a partial cut about 3" in and pull it back out, being careful not to tip or tilt it. The guard should spring back and cover the moving cutters, which you should have ALREADY checked.:yes:
Measure the gap/difference in the original portion and the newly cut portion and see what it is by setting it on edge on the table and see if you can get a dime underneath in the newly cut area.
A dime thickness is a good place to start, a little less is better on hardwoods.

Now about honing the blades, it's rather sophisticated, but not complicated. You can hone them in place, but I've not had much success with that. :no: Here's a specific link:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/honing-jointer-blades-how-10066/

Here are several more:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/search.php?searchid=1044861

Don't worry about honing the blades right now, since they will last for a long time if you don't run painted or finished material on the machine. Be careful and good luck with your new jointer. Use push block(s) made for the joiner, not a push STICK, made for a table saw. Use them both and cross over your hands to keep even pressure on the outfeed table.

It may help to think of a jointer like a giant hand plane rather than a one step, one shot, one pass wonder machine.
Your sighting abilities come into play right from the start...cup? bow?...twist?....Then use the jointer to remove all the stock that is offensive, especially if flipping end for end will reduce the number of passes, and it will once you get the hang of it. Keep planing/jointing part way in then lifting the work piece off, until you get as close by eye then use firm down pressure on the outfeed table to flatten (surface) or straighten (edge) the stock.






 

And why they cut CURVES:




 
__________________


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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

Don't forget this important tablesaw tutorial, too.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Does anyone know where to get replacement knives for this jointer? Aside from Harbor Freight, I mean. The blades that came with it are incredibly dull. On the suggestion of someone's web page I got some knives from Sears but the Sears blades aren't the same dimensions as the stock blades for the jointer. So I'd like to get a set of blades that comes pretty decently sharpened. I've got the Rockler magnetic jig for knife setting.

Once I get the jointer set up properly I'll post a review of it. Right now I'm getting bad snipe all across the boards I've tried to joint. I'm pretty sure I haven't set it optimally. It's a work in progress.


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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

I admire your perseverance. Don't doubt yourself, though!


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

Something I should have added. The knives that came with it are a little weird in that there is the bevel edge along the length of the knife. But another bevel edge on one of the sides. Replacement blades I've seen don't have that side bevel edge.

I don't know what the side edge is for or whether I have to get blades that have the same weird bevel on them. Or at least it isn't specified as being there in the online listings.

Also, can one use knives of different dimensions than stock knives? The Craftsman knives, for example, are the correct length (6 inches). But they are taller than the stock blades. If I set the infeed and outfeed tables properly, can I use those Sears knives? Or other knives, as long as they are tightly secured by the set screws?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*side bevel is for rabbets*

You need a "rabbeting" edge on your jointer for those to work.
6" jointer blades are usually 6 1/8" long. Holbren is a good source for knives:
http://www.holbren.com/jointer_planer-knives-3_piece-set-6-1-8-x-5-8-x-1-8-t1-hss.html

if you need exactly 6" long try these:
http://www.holbren.com/jointer_planer-knives-3_piece-set-6-x-5-8-x-1-8-t1-hss.html 

Holbren offers 10% off regular pricing (which is usually pretty good) to members of SMC, BT3Central, and Woodnet with "SMC10", "BT310", "woodnet10"Just enter the code in the discount code box. He's a terrific supplier.


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## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

The thing is a rabetting jointer, so I suppose I do have a rabbeting edge. Perhaps that is the portion of the fence that is not as tall as the rest, which leaves a gap between the fence and the table.

At this point I don't feel any need to do rabbetting, so I don't need knives with the extra edge. I'll try and do precise measurements to see if it's 6 inches long or 6 and 1/8 long. It probably is. I'll post the length, width, and thickness measurements. 

Thank you so much for those coupon codes. I'll use them. The knives are very reasonably priced too.

I'm going to send the Harbor Freight ones out for sharpening. There's a Rockler store that has a sharpening service that says they'll do jointer blades. 

I'm sure I can get this jointer to make flat, smooth boards. It's been done by others.


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