# Favorite Miter Saw Blade



## DCuch86 (Mar 12, 2014)

What's everyone's favorite miter saw blade? Freud? Diablo? Irwin Marples? Avanti? I've been looking at the 60T Marples and just wondering what you guys all like.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I have used a few....and now pretty much only buy Freud blades from Amazon.


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## fire65 (Apr 27, 2013)

What are we cutting? Solid oak cabinet fronts or exterior trim.


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## DCuch86 (Mar 12, 2014)

Maple poplar pine cherry walnut maybe and up to 8/4 thick and 6" wide at max


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Popular Tools, Everlast, FS tool. 

I also have some leitz, skarpaz, tenryu, matsush!ta, forrest, probably others too.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

The newer line of craftsman blades is pretty fantastic too


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## schnitz (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm using Freud blades now. My first Freud was a 50 tooth black one. Awesome blade. Used one Avanti, didn't like it at all, but maybe I was spoiled...


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

FS Tool, Royce Ayr, Everlast.

A.G.E. makes a decent miter saw blade but it has an H-ATB grind. If you change this it's better.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

I'm pretty fond of my Infinity 010-060 Hi-ATB 60T (similar to the WWI), CMT 210.080.10 Hi-ATB 80T, Leitz Pro 80T, and Freud LU80 Hi-ATB 80T.

It's worth noting that the new Avanti stuff from HD is junk in comparison to when it was made by Freud in Italy....Freud no longer makes the line, and the current line isn't even remotely close in design. You might find some NOS that says "Freud" on the blade at places like Woodcraft or Rockler, but if it doesn't say "Freud", it's made in China, and not made by Freud. If you want Freud thin kerf blades, stick with Diablo or the Industrial Line. 

The Irwin Marples line gets good marks too (also made in Italy), but dont' confuse that line with the Marathon and Classic lines (China), which are more disposable construction type blades.

If you want a bargain on a nice US made 80T thin kerf blade, this Oldham Pro 100PT80 from Cripe Distributors is a relabeled blade from the old DeWalt Series 40. It's nothing like the Oldham contractor line at HD, and is nicer than most of the other "Oldham Pro" line.

For a slider, be sure to get a blade with a low to negative hook angle.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

This fella is showing up on my doorstep today

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00119R51G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I decided I needed a combo blade, too big of a job to change the blade on the miter saw all the time, and the 12" blades are a 70-120 bucks...


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

notskot said:


> I'm pretty fond of my Infinity 010-060 Hi-ATB 60T (similar to the WWI), CMT 210.080.10 Hi-ATB 80T, Leitz Pro 80T, and Freud LU80 Hi-ATB 80T.
> 
> It's worth noting that the new Avanti stuff from HD is junk in comparison to when it was made by Freud in Italy....Freud no longer makes the line, and the current line isn't even remotely close in design. You might find some NOS that says "Freud" on the blade at places like Woodcraft or Rockler, but if it doesn't say "Freud", it's made in China, and not made by Freud. If you want Freud thin kerf blades, stick with Diablo or the Industrial Line.
> 
> ...



What are you cutting that requires multiple brands of H-ATB blades? I own and use them when required but only when necessary.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> This fella is showing up on my doorstep today
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00119R51G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I decided I needed a combo blade, too big of a job to change the blade on the miter saw all the time, and the 12" blades are a 70-120 bucks...


A 40 tooth blade is a general construction blade, fine for rough framing and building decks but I wouldn't use it for trim or any kind of finish carpentry.

I'm a big fan of Leitz and Amana, the Freud are ok but nothing less than a 60 tooth.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I don't understand your choice here*

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's a 48 tooth X 12" blade, too few teeth for fine splinter free crosscuts  ...we'll wait and see...
My 12" Dewalt SCMS is wearing a 60 tooth blade as is my Bosch 10" slider. I have 96 tooth blades as spares if I need them.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> This fella is showing up on my doorstep today
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00119R51G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I decided I needed a combo blade, too big of a job to change the blade on the miter saw all the time, and the 12" blades are a 70-120 bucks...



That blade is designed for a table saw. Geometry is wrong for a miter saw.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

donno, freuds site lists it for use in miter saw or table, some reviews mentioned it for miter saws.

have to see how it cuts, freud certainly seems to love it, Ive been running the stock blade for a long while, this looked like a strong choice. 

THough Im not sure Id tell the difference between any of the blades to be honest. Especially when its brand new sharp, its going to feel amazing to start.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*read the product description...*



Justin Huisenga said:


> That blade is designed for a table saw. Geometry is wrong for a miter saw.


Sounds like you've got it right:

*Product Description*

Includes 12 in. 48 Tooth Premier Fusion Saw Blade - P412 

*Amazon.com*

* Equally suited to ripping* and crosscutting, the versatile 12-inch Freud P412 Premier Fusion Saw Blade delivers clean finishes in a wide variety of materials. Thanks to a rigid, laser-cut, anti-vibration body, Freud's Perma-SHIELD coating, and a design that fuses Hi-ATB teeth with a unique, side-grind geometry, it smoothes surfaces as you cut them.










The kicker is the 12" diameter and 1" arbor which will make it difficult to adapt to your 10" X 5/8" tablesaw.:yes:


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## DCuch86 (Mar 12, 2014)

Yeah I would think that would be a bit hard! I'm thinking about picking up one of the Marples 80T for my miter. The Avanti I had gotten last time from HD was just not a good cut and didn't last any time at all. Hoping to go grab it tomorrow when I hopefully pick up the Hitachi 12" on sale for $219. I've been debating on getting the 10" or 12" for the simplicity of sharing blades with my TS but that extra capacity will certainly come in handy. The misses wants me to put up some 5 1/2" crown in most of the rooms in the house.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> donno, freuds site lists it for use in miter saw or table, some reviews mentioned it for miter saws.
> 
> have to see how it cuts, freud certainly seems to love it, Ive been running the stock blade for a long while, this looked like a strong choice.
> 
> THough Im not sure Id tell the difference between any of the blades to be honest. Especially when its brand new sharp, its going to feel amazing to start.


That's one of many things I don't like about Freud. It's shady marketing. If you are using a SCMS the blade should have a 0* or negative hook. I usually use a fixed miter saw and run negative hook blades because you have more control over the saw. The reviews that say to use it on a miter saw are the reason I don't trust reviews. 

Freud put out the Fusion to try to put a hurt on the WW2. To get a super clean cut the gave it an H-ATB grind. Not a bad grind but wrong for a general purpose blade. Way too fragile for ripping. It's designed for melamine and chip prone laminates and veneers but Freud claims glue line rips in wood. ATB blades in general will have a tendency to wander and follow the grain when ripping and the higher angle top grind of the H-ATB will make it even more so. 

I'd return the blade and look for something else.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Forrest Chopmaster. Best blade I've ever used.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

DCuch86 said:


> Yeah I would think that would be a bit hard! I'm thinking about picking up one of the Marples 80T for my miter. The Avanti I had gotten last time from HD was just not a good cut and didn't last any time at all. Hoping to go grab it tomorrow when I hopefully pick up the Hitachi 12" on sale for $219. I've been debating on getting the 10" or 12" for the simplicity of sharing blades with my TS but that extra capacity will certainly come in handy. The misses wants me to put up some 5 1/2" crown in most of the rooms in the house.


The geometry of table saw and miter saw blades are usually very different and sharing blades is not a good idea. A table saw cuts from underneath and the positive hook on the blade pulls the material down to the table. A miter saw cuts from the top. A positive rake will tend to pull it down into the wood potentially causing kick back.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

Big Dave said:


> Forrest Chopmaster. Best blade I've ever used.


The Chopmaster is a very clean cutting blade but it uses a 30* top grind making it H-ATB. It will give you burnished end grain miters that you can see yourself in but will dull very quickly when compared to a normal ATB blade. 

Tenyru goes after this same out of the box impression with the ATAFR grind that they use. It's all shear angles and as a result dulls quickly. 

Most of the blades I run share similar geometry. 4ATB+R. 20* top grind, .095-.098 plate, negative hook, and 80-100 tooth count. There's no such thing as the perfect blade but these characteristics make for a nice balance of cut quality and edge durability. Edge life between sharpenings is almost as important as cut quality in defining a quality blade.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Justin Huisenga said:


> The Chopmaster is a very clean cutting blade but it uses a 30* top grind making it H-ATB. It will give you burnished end grain miters that you can see yourself in but will dull very quickly when compared to a normal ATB blade.
> 
> Tenyru goes after this same out of the box impression with the ATAFR grind that they use. It's all shear angles and as a result dulls quickly.
> 
> Most of the blades I run share similar geometry. 4ATB+R. 20* top grind, .095-.098 plate, negative hook, and 80-100 tooth count. There's no such thing as the perfect blade but these characteristics make for a nice balance of cut quality and edge durability. Edge life between sharpenings is almost as important as cut quality in defining a quality blade.


 Granted I mostly work with softwoods and Oak on occasion but I get a couple years out of a blade before sharpening. Although I don't use it every day.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

Big Dave said:


> Granted I mostly work with softwoods and Oak on occasion but I get a couple years out of a blade before sharpening. Although I don't use it every day.


I'm not slamming the blade. I have one in the van that comes out to play every once in a while. It cuts clean and if it works well for you carry on.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Justin Huisenga said:


> I'm not slamming the blade. I have one in the van that comes out to play every once in a while. It cuts clean and if it works well for you carry on.


I didn't say you were. Just sharing my experiences with it.:thumbsup:


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> Sounds like you've got it right:
> 
> *Product Description*
> 
> ...


One example of a 12" table saw. http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Extreme-Table-Saw-5HP-1-Phase/G0605X1


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not saying it won't fit a 12" table saw...*



Justin Huisenga said:


> One example of a 12" table saw. http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Extreme-Table-Saw-5HP-1-Phase/G0605X1



I own a Powermatic 68 12" 5 HP saw myself. I was saying it, the blade posted above, won't adapt to a 10" 5/8" arbor very easily..... :no:


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

Justin Huisenga said:


> The Chopmaster is a very clean cutting blade but it uses a 30* top grind making it H-ATB. It will give you burnished end grain miters that you can see yourself in but will dull very quickly when compared to a normal ATB blade.
> 
> Tenyru goes after this same out of the box impression with the ATAFR grind that they use. It's all shear angles and as a result dulls quickly.
> 
> Most of the blades I run share similar geometry. 4ATB+R. 20* top grind, .095-.098 plate, negative hook, and 80-100 tooth count. There's no such thing as the perfect blade but these characteristics make for a nice balance of cut quality and edge durability. Edge life between sharpenings is almost as important as cut quality in defining a quality blade.


I totally agree with you that there's no perfect blade. Edge life would definitely be a concern for a pro or someone doing higher volumes, but for a hobbyist like me who does 2 or 3 projects a year, edge life means very little...especially since I have several blades that I rotate between. I can go years between sharpenings if I keep the blades clean. I do however really enjoy the low tearout I get from Hi-ATB grinds. That's why it's so important to pick the blade that best suits the situation at hand, and not someone else's favorite.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

notskot said:


> I totally agree with you that there's no perfect blade. Edge life would definitely be a concern for a pro or someone doing higher volumes, but for a hobbyist like me who does 2 or 3 projects a year, edge life means very little...especially since I have several blades that I rotate between. I can go years between sharpenings if I keep the blades clean. I do however really enjoy the low tearout I get from Hi-ATB grinds. That's why it's so important to pick the blade that best suits the situation at hand, and not someone else's favorite.



I'm a finish carpenter and spend a lot of time at my saw. I have to think about edge life between sharpenings and the number of sharpenings I can get out of a blade. I run industrial blades because they are designed to hold up to volume and as such represent a better value long term despite their cost to purchase.

The blade geometry I described above is very common for miter/double miter blades used in cabinet/millork fabrication and commercial art framing. In wood the only difference in the cut quality between these blades and H-ATB is the burnished quality of the miter. I will occasionally use H-ATB in wood if the moulding has a fragile finish on it but typical only use them for pre-finished veneer plywood.

The blades you listed earlier are all 10". If you find yourself in need of a new blade at some point in time give the FS Tool SM6250 (80t) or the LM4250 (60t) a try.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

guess I get a chance at a different blade. 3 teeth destroyed out of the box.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> guess I get a chance at a different blade. 3 teeth destroyed out of the box.



What saw are you using? What are you looking to cut with the blade and how much are you looking to spend?


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

bauerbach said:


> guess I get a chance at a different blade. 3 teeth destroyed out of the box.


Looks like it get dropped...


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

notskot said:


> Looks like it get dropped...


thats my guess, the packaging box was fine, not sure if it could bounce around inside of it, or if it happened in the warehouse. the sleeve it comes in definitely showed evidence of the teeth poking through the cardboard. 

It was 100 bucks, not looking to spend much more than that.


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## Sgt BOMBULOUS (Oct 9, 2014)

epicfail48 said:


> The newer line of craftsman blades is pretty fantastic too


This is the truth. I recently found this blade for $35 at the sears near me. When I tried it out the first time I went back the next day and bought another one... 

http://www.craftsman.com/12-in-x-60...0917565000P?prdNo=35&blockNo=35&blockType=G35

I tried this on a cross cut with 3 different kids of wood (Red Oak, Walnut, and Purple Heart) and there was NO tearout whatsoever. And the carbide teeth a HUGE, could easily re-sharpened multiple times.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> thats my guess, the packaging box was fine, not sure if it could bounce around inside of it, or if it happened in the warehouse. the sleeve it comes in definitely showed evidence of the teeth poking through the cardboard.
> 
> It was 100 bucks, not looking to spend much more than that.


Amana AGE MD12-106 (100t) or MD12-816 (80t). Around $80 on Amazon. They have an H-ATB grind. Run the blade until it's dull then when it get sharpened have the sharpener change the top grind to 20*. 

Everlast MD1280D. 80T. $95 on Amazon. Not a bad blade for a thin kerf.

Royce/Ayr P1612100 (100t) or Royce/Ayr P1612080 (80t). With shipping both are in the neighborhood of $120. I have ordered them from Ulrichsville Carbide in Ohio or Accurate Cutting Technologies in Indianapolis. These have the longest lasting edge of the 3.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

Is there a metric for good blades? I mean... they all cut like butter out of the package.

if a brand new blade had tear out... ****, I bet you could cut oak with a harbor freight lumber blade and get a perfect cut the first few times.

Are there different grades of carbide? is this something that the manufacturers publish or could be asked that could be compared? Can we measure the thickness of the carbide? 

Or are blades all basicly the same damn thing


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

bauerbach said:


> Is there a metric for good blades? I mean... they all cut like butter out of the package.
> 
> if a brand new blade had tear out... ****, I bet you could cut oak with a harbor freight lumber blade and get a perfect cut the first few times.
> 
> ...


There are different grades of carbide, thickness can be measured, and they're definitely not all the same. 

*Tips for Picking Saw Blades*

*Tungsten Carbide Grades*


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> Is there a metric for good blades? I mean... they all cut like butter out of the package.
> 
> if a brand new blade had tear out... ****, I bet you could cut oak with a harbor freight lumber blade and get a perfect cut the first few times.
> 
> ...


There are hundreds of grades of carbide. Each manufacturer uses there own grading systems. It is sometimes listed and sometimes you have to ask. Different blades use different grades depending on the application based on the hardness required. Harder is not always better. Some manufacturers add corrosion resistant binders to the carbide mix to increase edge life. The better blades I use have this. Carbide is porous and the binders help keep the acids from the wood from breaking down the edge when they get in the pores. I don't know exactly how it works but it does make a difference.

Not all blades are equal. A quality blade is laser cut, is tensioned correctly for its application and the rpm it will be run at , and has the correct geometry and carbide grade for its intended use. Many out there don't meet these standards. 

I look at the plate thickness, geometry, and intended application of a blade before I buy. There are manufacturers I look to first and those I wouldn't even consider. If you want a good place to start looking then ask a sharpener. Talk to the guy that actually does the work not a sales guy. They usually have some very informed opinions as to what is good or not. The sales guy will likely push the blade they get the best profit margin on. The guy I use hates Freud, CMT, and Tenyru. He'll sharpen them but won't stock them. He has saved me years of frustration with his recommendations. 

I use industrial blades. Most are either FS Tool or Royce/Ayr. They service the cabinet and millwork industries. In order to keep their market share in these industries they have to make top quality products that represent a true value based on edge life, cut quality, and service. They don't market outside of these industries. They don't submit their product to magazines for reviews. They just make great tooling.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Sgt BOMBULOUS said:


> This is the truth. I recently found this blade for $35 at the sears near me. When I tried it out the first time I went back the next day and bought another one...
> 
> http://www.craftsman.com/12-in-x-60...0917565000P?prdNo=35&blockNo=35&blockType=G35
> 
> I tried this on a cross cut with 3 different kids of wood (Red Oak, Walnut, and Purple Heart) and there was NO tearout whatsoever. And the carbide teeth a HUGE, could easily re-sharpened multiple times.


I keep the 50t combo blade on my table saw, and the thing cuts like butter. End grain is practically burnished. If im getting that good of a result with the combo blade, i really wanna see what the dedicated crosscut blade leaves


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Delta Leitz, Amana and run the Dewalt 80's till there dull and pitch em. I change brands of blades like golf clubs, I don't:no:.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Justin Huisenga said:


> I run industrial blades because they are designed to hold up to volume and as such represent a better value long term despite their cost to purchase.


You will soon discover some folks on here determine value simply by cost, the cheaper the better regardless of quality.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't think that's the case of most on here. While cost is absolutely a factor in value, it's not the only factor. You'll find very few people recommending harbor freight blades, or the basic Irwin versions, ect. What most hobbiest guys have to also factor in is that resharpenings may not need to happen for years on an inexpensive blade, so paying for the longest lasting, largest carbide may not be cost effective in the long run. 

On the other hand, in a production shop that is cutting 10 hours a day, 5 days a week it may be worth spending far more on the longest lasting blade. 

I have 5 or 6 freud blades, have had most for close to 5 years and just recently needed the first one resharpened. For me, they provide a great cross between cost and quality, making them a good value for me.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

wericha said:


> You will soon discover some folks on here determine value simply by cost, the cheaper the better regardless of quality.


You talking about Freud?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I can see the price of equipment being the difference between hobby and professional but not the blade. The blade should enhance the tool regardless the tool cost.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

well I ended up going with the chopmaster, what the hell. Ill save on shipping for resharpening the woodworker and chopmaster together  

(yeah, that logic works when youre single)


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