# Table saw wiring confusion- Central Machinery 91484. Won't turn off...



## tmundy14 (Jul 25, 2011)

I start by giving the hubby props for all things mechanical, with 1 exception, anything involving electricity (despite many shocks as well as riding lawnmowers, electronics, etc. gone up in smoke, he is still fearless! Funny memories only because he's still breathing). 

This being said, after he decided to "bypass" the reset switch on the table saw, it will only turn off if it is unplugged, even with the key.

It is a 120 V, 15 amps, 2.5 HP. The power switch assy has 4 prongs with 2 black and 2 white wires (from power cord on top and motor on bottom contacts). There is also what looks like a short black jumper type wire that is connecting the two contacts on the reset switch (so, needless to say, it's completely useless right now). I just want to make sure that I set the wiring back up correctly and if there is a fuse I should be looking for that may have caused him to do this bypass operation in the first place, that would be great info as well.

If there is another brand, it is nowhere to be found and I have had little luck located it despite a lot of searching. Any help, advice or diagrams would be greatly appreciated. This is my first post so, let me know if I have left anything out or said something too girly sounding  Thanks in advance for taking the time to toss me a bone. I'd rather be working on a hummer right about now, starting to seem much simpler, especially with the 5million-page manual. Part of the learning curve though right?!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Welcome to the forum. 

Since your fooling with electrical especially something that was bypassed it's going to be hard giving advise site unseen. If hubby is not good with electrical who will be doing any changes from this point and what is there experience if any. 

Like I said it's hard enough helping with electrical problems on line, add in the bypass, inexperience and then we're basically blind so lets get a few things to see if we can help.

Pictures are a must they always help better then just a description.

Reason he bypassed the reset switch? This sounds like the little button switch which is an overload switch. Bad idea to bypass that unless it's for trouble shooting the switch. Generally if that switch is tripping it is a short or overload and a safety issue.

Can Hubby undo his bypass? Are you willing to let him? :laughing:

How old is this saw?


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## klr650 (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm with RR, usually when you bypass a switch it's because that switch keeps tripping - generally due to a short. It's never a good idea to bypass an overload switch because you've removed an important safety feature - one that will save your life.

If you can upload some pics of the saw, the switch itself, and any mods that may have been done we might be able to help you back them out.


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## tmundy14 (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm not claiming to be a professional but I usually end up doing the 'undoing' myself. I was a hummer mechanic (to get through nursing school), have rewired the lawnmower, as well as set up home electric outlets and light fixtures that passed inspection without problem. Necessity is the mother of invention and also of learning. 

The main difference between he and I is that I am scared enough of and have enough respect for electricity to cut the power and take the safety measures rather than the shortcuts. I'm still backtracking his elect. shortcut on the truck but, without buying more unbroken parts found the spliced, uncapped wire that was touching the frame and shorting the whole electrical system (though that's about as far as my abilities go on that aspect though). So, yes I am a girl, but not a girly girl or a bored housewife trying to prove something. I'd rather just fix it and call it a mystery. I assure you though that I will use caution with any advice you have to offer. Give me just a bit to see if I can figure out how to upload pictures though. He would have had that done by now  We work well together because we compliment each others' strengths and weaknesses. No insult to him or man-hating on my end...promise. I'll go get the pics going. Thanks for your quick response.


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## mickit (Oct 5, 2009)

My two cents...a lot of the reset buttons degrade over time. I've replaced bunches of them. Most are very inexpensive(9-10 bucks at an electrical supply versus 30+ from a tool manufacturer). If you trust your "Fearless Hubby" to put it back correctly, it's a simple operation in most cases.
Post pics.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*2 more cents...*

Sound like he "bypassed" the on/off switch,and the motor is direct wired to the plug. Lets go at it this way.
On the back of the main power switch there will be either 2 terminals or 4. If there are 2, that's a single pole switch and only interrupts the black/hot wire. If there are 4 terminals that's a double pole switch and interrupts both the neutral/white and the hot/black wires. The "key switch" you mentioned may also interrupt both the hot and neutral, but I doubt it. Those switches must be wired so that there is a connection from the plug to the motor when in the "on" position and none when they are in the "off" position. The thermal overload switch is further down the line on the hot side, but before the motor. If that switch is "out of the loop" or bypassed it will have no effect on your issue. 

If you have a continuity checker/volt meter with a beeper you can check each wire to the switch and plug for continuity , switches on and switches off. Run that check and report back on what you've found out. :yes: bill


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> Sound like he "bypassed" the on/off switch,and the motor is direct wired to the plug. Lets go at it this way.
> On the back of the main power switch there will be either 2 terminals or 4. If thereb are 2, that's a single pole switch and only interrupts the black/hot wire. If there are 4 terminals that's a double pole switch and interrupts both the neutral/white and the hot/black wires. The "key switch" you mentioned may also interrupt both the hot and neutral, but I doubt it. All those switches must be wired so that there is a connection from the plug to the motor when in the "on" position and none when they are in the "off" position. The thermal overload switch is further down the line on the hot side, but before the motor. If that switch is "out of the loop" or bypassed it will have no effect on your issue.
> 
> If you have a continuity checker/volt meter with a beeper you can check each wire to the switch and plug for continuity , switches on and switches off. Run that check and report back on what you've found out. :yes: bill


Of all people Bill, I would not expect you to offer advise on this without pictures. Especially since he made changes and we are not sure why he made them. While it's true the overload switch is further down the line and if bypassed correctly should not cause her current problem. It is also correct that he bypassed a problem and created another one. Something don't make sense and I am always willing as you know to give advise over the net but in this case I would feel better knowing the whole picture first.


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## tmundy14 (Jul 25, 2011)

U so funny  I finally got the pictures uploaded.


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## tmundy14 (Jul 25, 2011)

*I put pictures in my album...finally.*

Sorry for the delay. I also had to learn how to use my phone and how to sync it (with downloads) in the process. Should be easy now that I know how. I double checked and when I clicked on 'my album' under my name, it shows the first of 3 and I believe the other two are in there. I'll wait to do anything rash until u guys see what I've got going on. And, I can't say thank you enough...truly!:smile:


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Looks to me like the switch is wired correctly, without any circuit breaker.

Saw dust probably got into the switch and jammed the works in the run position. Or, the motor is drawing too many amps, and without the breaker installed, the contacts in the switch welded together.

Do you have access to an a/c ammeter (amprobe)?


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## tmundy14 (Jul 25, 2011)

*How does the reset switch get wired in? Again, many thanks for the replies*

That's great that the 4 poles are connected to the correct wires but, the reset switch is still connected only to itself. Which wires are supposed to attach to those contacts? I asked my husband if he remembered splitting the white wires (cause I saw some online posts for other saw brands that involved connecting the white wires to free up the other terminal)... but he couldn't remember.

*Here's where I get to show my stupidity...so, feel free to enjoy at my expense. *

In response to Brink, is a Craftsman multimeter (with Vdc, Vac, Adc, ohms and battery options) equivalent or the same as the a/c ammeter (amprobe) that you referred to? I had to have it for my toolbox for the shop bu,t honestly only needed it a couple of times and I always have to be reminded which setting to use for each task. I pretty much use it for a quick battery test or keep switching to the different sections until I get what seems like a reasonable reading. 

So...if it's a completely different device, I don't have it and, if it's the same or similar, I would need to know which setting and what reading range to be looking for. How's that for girly?! I feel really stupid now and my only defense was not being allowed to use a tool of any sort or drive a truck until I was out of my dad's house. Ever since, I find myself enjoying building, destroying and repairing things waay more than I should. 

My father-in-law had ALS and lost use of his arms first, so I had the pleasure of him letting me be his hands to rebuild a burned down house, use a tractor, work on cars and a lot in between. Forever grateful to him for that. But, he didn't rely on 'fancy gadgets' too much so I missed the multimeter and amprobe lesson(s). If u have the patience, I'm more than willing to try it. If not, I understand. Just telling me how to reconnect the reset/override switch would thrill me too.

I know it's repetitive but, thanks to all of you. I had no idea there was an online resource of such kind and knowledgeable people. I'll check back in within an hour or so. Losing daylight and want to finish building this swingset and picnic bench TONIGHT! Call it stubborness or determination...don't care which as long as it gets done!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Reset switch wiring*

"That's great that the 4 poles are connected to the correct wires but, the reset switch is still connected only to itself. Which wires are supposed to attach to those contacts?"

The jumper that connects the reset to itself as you say needs to move up to a terminal where the black goes out to the motor and that wire goes back on the reset, if you want it back in the circuit. 
I would leave it out of the circuit until the other issue is sorted out...which as Brink says the contact may be welded or locked in the "on" position if the wiring is correct and it appears to be. ( a double pole switch)
A new switch may be necessary. I would first try to blast out any dust inside the switch if that's possible. Give the back of the switch a rap with a screw driver handle or something small that won't crack the switch body and see if it breaks loose and shuts off.  bill


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

You definitely have a switch failure, but why?

Your voltmeter is great for working on vehicles, what you need is a meter to read Aac, up to 25 amps. It's more of an electricians tool. The only reason I bring up an amprobe, is I think there's an over-current issue.

I come to that conclusion because the breaker is bypassed, probably kept tripping. Now the switch is stuck on.

As far as hooking up the breaker, the black wire from the outlet, should be connected to one side of the breaker. The wire from the breaker goes to the switch, the other black wire goes to the motor.


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## tmundy14 (Jul 25, 2011)

*here's what I'm getting...so, what's the best next step?*

Okay, so after I blow it out with the air compressor, and give it the rap to see if it shuts off, will it hurt anything to at least try to put the reset switch back in the circuit? It's just a hassle and distraction when I'm cutting long, heavy pieces of wood to have to stabilize them to manually unplug the saw from the extension cord. Besides, if it's a $10 switch that I can replace to fix it I feel that it's worth it...AS LONG AS I'm not risking further damage by troubleshooting that way. 

I'm guessing I could rent an amprobe if I can't find a neighbor who has one (but I'm like the most watched episode in this "pay-to-have it done" neighborhood). You wouldn't believe the comments and astonishment when people spot me and my 98 lbs working under the hood of a pick-up or running the tiller. But, with 3 growing boys, I can't afford not to do it myself, especially with my husband only home a couple of days a week (still working near our old house till he finds a job here). If it's worth it though and I can't rent it, I'll start asking, especially if it's the safer choice. U guys are the pros, after my cleaning and banging, what next (work with what I have or go get the right tool). I'm at your disposal. You've been too helpful for me not to be. Makes me miss working with guys (no offense to any ladies who have replied though). Teamwork in the shop is second nature but among a bunch of young ICU nurses it's a rarity and that's why I am so appreciative.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Mess around with the switch, see if it can be made to work, reconnect the breaker, then see what happens


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Be careful*

Unplug the saw and then remove the blade...then mess around with the switch.
The problem with a problematic switch is...it may turn on without warning. That would not be good in any situation. There is a short term solution until you can replace the switch. Use an extension outlet with it's own switch. A multiple outlet strip has a switch built in. It may not have the required load capacity, 15 amps ...I donno.
But don't use the tool with the existing switch even if you can get it to shut off. Sears/Craftsman uses similar switches on their table saws, if it's no longer available from CM/Harbor Fright. Other saws may also have similar switches. I have made switches for my router tables using Safety paddles and extension cords with the ends cut off. It controls an outlet for both the router and the shop vac.  bill


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Brink said:


> . The only reason I bring up an amprobe, is I think there's an over-current issue.
> 
> I come to that conclusion because the breaker is bypassed, probably kept tripping. Now the switch is stuck on.


See this is what I thought also but She says she can use the saw for long cuts and it's difficult to unplug the saw while balancing the wood. If it was an over-current issue the motor should burn up.

If it were me I would replace both switches. I think the overload switch was probably giving trouble so he by passed it. In doing so he may have wired the switch wrong and it's always on because of wiring not because of sawdust or contacts being stuck.

We say that the switch looks right, but we can't see any markings in the picture and the wires could just be on wrong. Turn the switch90 degrees and the wires in the same spot as now and it's wired completely different. A new switch will insure that it's good and have wiring instructions.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

you could be on to something richard. If the motor stayed on after the husband "fixed' it he could have swapped the wires. That's why I asked for a continuity check earlier. If you trace the black wire from the plug to the far side of the switch it should "interrupt" by the turning the switch to "off". If it don't turn off, then ....the switch is locked up OR the switch is cross wired. My experience with double pole switch is that they transfer across the length of the switch rather than the sides of the switch. 
An easy check is to remove the 2 whites and 2 blacks as shown and just check across the switch to see what effect turning the switch on and off does. Then reattach the wires properly so the switch functions and interrupts the black and white wires simultaneously as it should.


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