# What is the difference between standard, quality, and select boards?



## Jamie52 (Feb 5, 2017)

Hello all,

I'm relatively new to woodworking and have a question about the kind of wood I should be purchasing. I live in Wisconsin so the local hardware store is Menards and they have three distinct kinds of what home depot would call "common" boards: standard, quality, and select.

I'm assuming these are all pine or a similar softwood but I'm wondering if the only difference between these is the quality of the milling process. The more expensive "select" boards are significantly more expensive (~5 times the "standard" board) and they do look nicer but I can't tell if it's actually better wood or just more precisely milled to be easier to work with.

Does anyone know if that's the only difference? I'm essentially debating whether it would be better to just get a planer and be able to buy the cheap stuff and then just make it nicer.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

I don't have a Menard's in my area, so I'm answering in general. If you were ordering your wood online or by phone, these 3 distinctions would be more important. But when you personally go and select each board yourself, not so much because you will choose each individual board. 
Think of the grades as good, better and best. The best should not have any imperfections or knots. 
Common will have some imperfections but it will be less expensive. Depending on your project, sometimes common will work just fine. 
On some projects you may use a combination of grades based on what shows and what doesn't show. 
If you plan to make a real showy piece, you will want to use only the best material.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Jamie52 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm essentially debating whether it would be better to just get a planer and be able to buy the cheap stuff and then just make it nicer.


To do it right, you will need a jointer to create a flat side and one edge perpendicular to that flat side. Then you can move to the planer and plane it to the desired thickness.

I buy rough lumber for some projects. It may cost less, but it ain't cheap. :surprise2:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've never been in a Menards so I'm not familiar with their terms. Generally common lumber is referred to as a thrift grade. Most lumber is graded by how much of the face side of a board is clear. Knots are considered a defect in most woods. Lumber like pine and cedar are expected to have knots though so it is graded on the size of the knot and if the knots are solid or appear to be on the verge of falling out. 

Personally I don't think it's worth it to surface your own lumber. I have a industrial 24" planer and I order lumber already surfaced unless I'm doing something I need to flatten the lumber before being used. It takes a lot of time to surface the lumber and unless you have a good dust control system you will spend a lot of time cleaning up the mess. Also if the lumber is rough it's often difficult to see the quality of the board.


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## Jamie52 (Feb 5, 2017)

Thank you all! This was super valuable to my understanding of the generic grades at the local hardware store and I really just have to gauge my level of effort vs. price.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Lowes has this great expkantion*

We have Menards, Lowes and Home Depot here in Michigan. I found this link in a search which calls out the various grading designations:

https://www.lowes.com/projects/build-and-remodel/lumber-buying-guide/project

*Softwood Grades*

Softwoods are divided into two categories: dimensional lumber, with a grade based on strength, and appearance boards, which are typically used for woodworking projects. Grades listed here are from highest to lowest. 
*C Select* = Almost completely clear of defects. Widely used for interior trim and cabinets.
*D Select* = Fine appearance, similar to C Select. May have dime-sized knots.
*1 Common* = Best material for high quality pine with a knotty look. Knots will be tight, meaning they won't fall out, and are generally small.
*2 Common* = Tight knots, but larger than found in 1 Common. Often used for paneling and shelving. Very suitable for general woodworking projects.
*3 Common* = Knots larger than in 2 Common. Also used for paneling and shelving, but especially well-suited for fences, boxes and crates.


Hardwood lumber is often selected in person at the mill where the buyer selects the boards based on his preferences. Some mills will sort a through a bunk or pallet if you ask when ordering large quantities.


*Hardwood Grades*

Grading designation depends on the number of defects in a board. A lower grade can be perfectly acceptable, depending on placement and usage. Hardwoods are graded by the National Hardwood Lumber Association. Here's a chart to help explain the grading system. Grades are listed from highest to lowest.


As far as the quality of milling, you can buy lumber by the number of surfaces the mill will joint, straighten, square or plane smooth.... S2S, S3S or S4S where the number indicates the surfaces that are planed smooth. You can also get rough sawn lumber where it is just as it comes off the sawmill with the saw marks visible. Once it gets planed smooth there is little variation in the surface quality, only how sharp the planer blades were at the time ... not much.


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## sanchez (Feb 18, 2010)

I go to Menards all the time. Anytime I use pine for a project meant to be seen, I will only buy the select pine boards. They are generally straight, flat, and very clear. The others are good for utility type projects.


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

The grading noted above was very insitefull.
I have Menards, HD and Lowe's by me.
I have a different grading system from bottom to best grades:
Menards- 
1. knotty and bowed not suitable to burn
2. Not as knotty twisted and cracked
3. Few knots but strategical placed and sized to give the board no strength and cracks at the ends at least a foot down

HD 
1. Wrapped from standing on end in the dry heated store with twists
2. Best grade is ridiculously priced that I use red oak to save a few bucks

Lowe's - usually higher priced and not in stock for the size I need.

Where do I buy wood? A real lumber yard and when in a pinch I do buy some hardwoods at Menards if it's only a couple of pieces.
When at HD I will empty the bin on the floor to find a few good boards. Hint, bring tin snipes to cut the bundles to get the center boards that are still straight.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Lol ...*

The boards inside the bunks are only straight because they have yet to warp from the heat and dryness of the store's environment. Give them a week, and they will resemble all the rest.

For some reason I searched through the PT yellow pine and found some great straight 2 X 12" boards that remained that way....?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I was told by a lumber yard that did not carry untreated 4 x 4's. I wanted them for the legs on my workbench. The owner told me that they only carry treated because the treated 4x4's were less likely to warp and twist.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Tony B said:


> I was told by a lumber yard that did not carry untreated 4 x 4's. I wanted them for the legs on my workbench. The owner told me that they only carry treated because the treated 4x4's were less likely to warp and twist.


They are telling fairy tales. Treated wood until it dries is very susceptible to warp and twist. The real reason they don't carry untreated 4x4's is the majority of people buy them to put in the ground and that calls for treated. They would probably only sell an untreated 4x4 once in a blue moon. 

I don't see any reason not to use treated posts for a work bench. I have treated posts on all my benches.


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

If you look at the sticker on the "Select" boards ay Menards it says imported from New Zealand. It's extremely straight, clear grain pine. You'll spend all day looking through the stacks of standard and quality pine just trying to find a straight board. The vast majority of the select pine I've purchased from menards was straight as you could hope for. Especially considering it was harvested, dried and milled and shipped from another hemisphere. It's not cheap, but it's really nice stuff.


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## JohnGi (May 9, 2019)

The big, clear boards of radiata pine are very nice wood if you need big, clear pieces. If you look at the end grain of those boards, you will see widely spaced growth rings due to the rapid growth that makes plantations of these trees economically viable. This also makes the wood less stable if it is cut into narrower strips, so a nice straight 1x6 might make two bowed 1x3s.



Jamie52 said:


> they do look nicer but I can't tell if it's actually better wood or just more precisely milled to be easier to work with.
> 
> 
> An important difference between construction lumber, intended to be used by carpenters and sold in retail lumber yards, and industrial lumber, used by cabinet and furniture makers, is the kiln drying. Industrial lumber has to be more stable, and the kiln schedule will be different. Drying lumber faster is cheaper, but it can produce internal defects and internal tensions that show up in molded edges and end grain joinery cuts.
> ...


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

+1 on the Radiata Pine, I buy it from my supplier for much less tha HD.

The only grading system I’m familiar is I guess for hardwoods, FAS (first and second meaninf no knots) is generally furniture grade lumber.

Look at the cherry I picked up the other day for 3.50. 😌


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

Jamie52 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm relatively new to woodworking and have a question about the kind of wood I should be purchasing. I live in Wisconsin so the local hardware store is Menards and they have three distinct kinds of what home depot would call "common" boards: standard, quality, and select.
> 
> ...


I have never heard of some of these terms. I am guessing that they are marketing, how the store chooses to grade it's lumber. Generally, the best grade of lumber is FAS (first and seconds). May have minor defects. FAS needs to have 83 1/3% of clear cutting. Select is the same as FAS, but select has a minimum board width of 4", not 6" and is graded over 6', not 8'. Next would be #1 and #2 Common. #1 Common needs to be 66% clear and #2 common 50% clear. Not all wood is graded. Some smaller mills do not grade due to the cost of doing so. Some lumber does not qualify for grading due to length, width, of imperfections.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I believe FAS grade does not apply to construction grade lumber. Mainly cabinet and furniture grade.


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