# Beginner - building a workbench



## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

I'm building a workbench. I asked for some advice here. Well I pulled the trigger, bought a bunch of tools and got started.

I spent the first few days trying to learn to make things sharp. The Lie Nielsen tools came sharp, but they all recommended putting an extra five degree micro-bevel. I watched a bunch of YouTube videos then proceeded to do it wrong anyhow for a few tries. Then I finally got wise and made a stropping block.










Then I was able to get things paper-slicing sharp.


















The wood came Tuesday and I was out with a friend last night. Tonight I decided to try gluing up the legs. If I ****ed it up, I'd lose less wood than if I tried starting out with the top. I took out the jack plane, waxed the bottom, and tried to get two pieces so they would lay flat against each other. I should have tried harder because the glue-up did not go well.










Check out this gap:










Realizing my mistake only after clamping failed to rectify the problem, I tried to get the pieces apart. But even after five minutes it seemed the wood glue was way too strong for me to pull apart with my hands. Impressive! I guess we'll just go with it and see how we do. If I have extra wood left over at the end or some extra time to go by the lumber yard again, maybe I'll remake this leg.

I also machined another leg tonight. This one seems to be sitting much flatter against itself. I can press the edges together with my hands so I hope that with some luck and a little more glue, I'll have a proper glue-up tomorrow night.










My parents were also kind enough to give me a home depot gift cert for my birthday. I think I need some more clamps. It would be nice to be able to glue up more than one thing at a time. I've heard good things about pipe clamps . . .


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

jags217 said:


> My parents were also kind enough to give me a home depot gift cert for my birthday. I think I need some more clamps. It would be nice to be able to glue up more than one thing at a time. I've heard good things about pipe clamps . . .


Haha! ... clamps ... never seem to have enough. Always one of two short of what I need for the current project.

Looks like your project is starting well, and you're learning new great skills. Congrats! Keep us updated.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

I’m impressed, you jumped straight in to the real good tools and you’re going about this with hand tools to boot. Congrats,I think you made the right choice. 

What a lot of people don’t realize is that power tools do everything a lot faster by design, and that includes releasing total wreak and ruin on our projects when we goof up. 

What you’re learning now will only help you if you decide to add power to the equation. A quality handsaw is a necessary item for your kit; I personally prefer a Japanese combination handsaw.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

Scurvy said:


> I’m impressed, you jumped straight in to the real good tools and you’re going about this with hand tools to boot. Congrats,I think you made the right choice.


Another way to look at it: "Good" hand tools are tools that work. They don't have to be expensive. Yep, those LN are super nice out of the box. But unless you know how to maintain your tools, they'll eventually become useless. In contrast, you can get cheaper, but well built tools, and make them shave just as well (usually with a little elbow grease). Jags, I'm happy for you that you can afford those tools. Just remember there's more to owning a Ferrari than paying for it.



Scurvy said:


> What a lot of people don’t realize is that power tools do everything a lot faster by design, and that includes releasing total wreak and ruin on our projects when we goof up.


Yep!


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

AwesomeOpossum74 said:


> Just remember there's more to owning a Ferrari than paying for it.


Yeah! Although, ironically, there really isn't much more to owning a Ferrari than paying for it. You don't have to learn to maintain it yourself. These tools are far less forgiving!

I machined the 2x4s for two more legs today, and glued them up. I got the fit much tighter than it was with the first leg, although I feel like there is still much room to improve. I also dimensioned three faces of the leg I joined last night. I think this leg is usable even if it's not the prettiest thing out there.

I got out the smoothing plane and sharpened it. I can't tell if it's sharp enough though. The blade slices through paper no problem, and I can get very thin shavings. But I find it is getting caught in the wood periodically. Sometimes it feels like I've got it set to too shallow a depth, and then it will bite and take a deep chunk out of the wood.

My shavings look like this:










Does that waviness imply a problem with the blade or the settings? I don't really see that in people's videos of hand-planing.

I tried tightening the screw on the front of the plane and adjusting the chip breaker, but I think it's probably just a technique issue. I am guessing that I'm not doing a good job keeping even pressure during the stroke. 

It probably doesn't help that these workmates are quite unstable. I guess I'd catch a bit less in a more stable platform. I can't wait to actually have a bench, but it's going to be a while at this rate. I haven't even gotten to the hard part (milling the mortises and tenons and the recesses for the vise hardware).


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

Taking a deep chunk out of the wood is usually because you are planing against the grain. The hand plane will do it, but it will do it easier and leave a smoother surface if you turn the board around.

Figuring out which way the grain runs can be useful before glueing two or more boards together so you can keep the grain all running the same way to get a smoother finish.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Two questions:
1. What are you using to check your work as you go? A straightedge? Winding sticks? Something else?
2. Are you building long legs and planning to cut them apart later?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

You are learning woodworking the way I did. Just start out building something. Your skill level will grow rapidly. I would like to say 'good luck' but you wont need it. So I will just say "enjoy the journey".


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

If it were me, I'd rip the boards apart and start over.

Jointing boards with a hand plane is a fairly high skill task. Shorter boards 3' or less although they can be done with a #5, a #7 or 8 would be the plane of choice for any board over 4' IMO. That said, I've watched people like Paul Sellers joint boards with a #4, but they are starting out with very straight lumber.

The big thing you need to look out for is maintaining a 90° edge. Frequently check along the board as you go. If you do get off, a "pro tip" is to run the plane with the edge flush with the edge of the board, this engages the sole out side the blade and will incrementally take more off one side than the other. Another way is to deliberately misadjust the blade so its protruding more on one side. For thinner boards, one technique is to clamp them together (face to face) and plane them both at once, this way, any discrepancy off 90 will cancel out.

Another jointing technique is the "spring joint". This involves hollowing out the central 2/3's of the board slightly (we're talking 3-4 thou) so that the edges engage first. There are videos on how to do this, but its simply short strokes in the middle and then lengthen, maybe 3-4 strokes depending on how your plane is set up. You would use a #4 or 5 for this depending on length of board.

Hope this helps. Congrats on starting out with high quality tools & sounds like you've got your sharpening technique well in hand.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

You noted that the plane is “taking out chunks.” That plus looking at your shavings indicates to me that there is a combination of three factors at play: 

1) As previously noted, the grain direction is a critical factor during both the design and construction phases. Knots are a more extreme variation on this same issue, because they have grain that bends and arcs, but they easily illustrate what occurs throughout almost all wood: The wood is comprised of a cohesive mass of tiny cellulose tubes, which have hard and softer parts collectively known as the grain. A block of wood is very similar in concept to a new box of cocktail straws. The problem is that only rare pieces of wood have grain that’s perfectly flat and straight like the straws. Instead, relative to the nice flat and square form of the manmade piece of wood, those tubes may rise to one or more surfaces at an angle or rise up and go back down like a wave. These arrangements mean that your plane blade will likely get nice and smooth bite on the flat, parallel grain, but then grab and tear out chunks where the grain hits the surface at an angle. The easiest way to experience this is to plane first a smooth face of a scrap board (face grain), and then plane the end of that same board (end grain).

This is a good point to watch some Paul Sellers on YouTube. A partial workaround to the grain issue is to plane it from the opposite direction. Another thing is to know that the tear out is okay for parts that won’t be exposed to view. Another thing is to realize that if you have to plane off more thickness than comes from your tear out, then so what if it tears out and you have enough cushion to resolve it? A variation on that last idea is that that kind of gross removal is a common part of the fast and rough work at the beginning stages of the surfacing — the smoothing and beautification steps come later. Sorry to go on and on, but what we do is all about the wood. 

2) Your shaving might be a tad aggressive. When I get unacceptable tear out, the first thing I try is to shallow up my cut. The bite is right when your strokes require moderate effort and proceed smoothly. It's a very satisfying sensation that is not unlike a properly hit golf ball, baseball, or tennis ball - it will feel right. 

3) The tear out can also be controlled by closing down the gap between the blade and the front part of the mouth of the plane. Depending on your plane, there may be a sliding” panel” just at the mouth or you may have to move the frog forward. 

4) Pressure. Somewhat more weighting on the rear handle, which has the larger sole surface beneath it. On Western planes, the rear handle is about forward and downward pressure, while the knob is about guidance and the return stroke. 

5) Wax the sole with bee’s wax or some other quality, zero silicone content lubricant. There’s a lot of discussion here about the right lubricants/protectants.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Two questions:
> 1. What are you using to check your work as you go? A straightedge? Winding sticks? Something else?
> 2. Are you building long legs and planning to cut them apart later?


1. I had a piece of s4s pine that I checked against the edge of my plane. They seem flat. I'm using them as winding sticks. I am also using the edge of my #62 to check flatness laterally any longitudinally. Along with sighting down the piece. I'm using my combination square with the first smooth side as a reference to smooth the second side. Then I'm using a depth gauge to mark the levels for thicknessing.


















2. I glued up the legs about two inches longer than the longest I thought I would need.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Terry Q said:


> Taking a deep chunk out of the wood is usually because you are planing against the grain. The hand plane will do it, but it will do it easier and leave a smoother surface if you turn the board around.
> 
> Figuring out which way the grain runs can be useful before glueing two or more boards together so you can keep the grain all running the same way to get a smoother finish.


Thanks Terry Q and everyone else who mentioned this. I started dimensioning another leg and ensured that I had the grain rising away from me. I got much better results this way. It was easier going and smoother shavings.

I also focused on putting more down pressure on the heel of the plane, and that seemed to make things work better too. I started waxing the plane more often too and that seemed to help as well.

I also almost learned a valuable lesson the hard way: plane away from the direction of the sliding glass door.

Right now I'm trying to spend an hour or two on this project each night. My capacity is currently limited by my hands, which aren't used to hard work and keep threatening to blister. I figure as long as I keep trucking, I'll eventually reach the end goal. There's a fair amount of brute work between here and there though.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

First fully dimensioned leg. It's not perfect, but it's close enough.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Leg one, leg two, and leg three, left to right. 










The joint is getting much nicer as I practice. And it's going faster too. The advice to look for the grain was clutch. I haven't had any jamming since then, and it was not necessary to sharpen my blades at all. I got leg four and one of the front-to-back pieces glued up today as well.

I am noticing that my smooth plane is not quite getting the glassy smooth surface I want. I suspect I dulled it a little trying to plane against the grain and trying to use it like Paul Sellers does his (basically as a primary work-horse). I now understand why people say to have different planes sharpened to different grits. I'll take it back up to 15000 at some point soon and see how that changes the quality of the finished surface.

I also figured out a setup that keeps the workmates from sliding along the floor.










It may be hard to see from this pic, but the rear workmate is propped up against the wall. It can't slide, so the clamped piece can't move. This has dramatically improved the comfort of doing the work.

Tomorrow I will glue up the stretchers and dimension the pieces I glued up today. After that, I'll have to stop putting off the benchtop.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

Nice job, big improvement


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

I dunno, man. You might just have a talent for this stuff.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Terry Q said:


> Nice job, big improvement





AwesomeOpossum74 said:


> I dunno, man. You might just have a talent for this stuff.


It's too kind of y'all to say. But I think one of the things I like about this discipline is that, mostly, you won't screw it up by lack of skill. You'll just go slower. Lack of judgment on the other hand . . . see leg 1.

Tonight I got the two legs glued up last night dimensioned (the two one the right). One of them is good, and one of them is slightly imperfect. A very small gap at the ends. I knew it was going to happen because I had a little trouble compressing them together before glue-up, but I did it anyway. Oops. Judgment, as I mentioned.










I was able to get the legs square but boy was it some work. Forty five minutes per leg if my clock doesn't lie. Most of the delay came from flattening the sides where the joint was exposed. The legs had shifted against each other while glued, and so I had probably 1/8th to take off for about half the length of the board. That seemed to take a good five to ten minutes on each side, for each board. So it might have been as much as half the time consumed by a single mistake.

I really need to set up some cauls for the next clamping. I'm going to check if I have any length to spare from the boards I have. If I do, I'll set that up before I glue up the first stretcher.

You may notice there are five legs here! There's actually one more coming. Some of the 4x4 pieces are used to connect the front and rear legs.

At some point I need to decide how wide I want this thing to be. I have the 2x4s to make it about 20" deep. Or I could add the tool well per the instructions. Then I'd be at about 25". That's as deep as a man ought to need, especially in a room only 10' deep.

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

*MONEY TALK*

Earlier we were discussing my financial restraint (or lack thereof) when it comes to tool acquisition. Well, the shop still needs more tools. Particularly, we're missing:



panel saws (rip and crosscut)
fine saws (tenon and dovetail)
dust collection/cleanup
a soft hammer/mallet
a jointer plane
vises

However, I was suitably chastened by folks who suggested I learn to work with tools that don't start out perfect :smile:. While I can't promise I won't shell out for the good stuff again someday, I decided to take advice and buy some used stuff and some cheaper stuff. I was on the point of buying $800 of Lie Nielsen saws, but I said, "What would the guys think."

That being said, things do need to be bought, so here's what I've decided on:



For saws, I'll just buy a replacement blade for my two-sided pull saw ($10). And I bought a Japanese dovetail saw from the same brand ($20). This should carry me some distance. I can worry about push saws later.
I will buy a bucket-top cyclone dust collector and shop vac. I know I don't strictly need this -- I could sweep up. But it's cheap enough and DAMN there are a lot of wood shavings. The shop vac will have other uses around the house as well.
Hammer acquired on Amazon ($20).
Used Stanley Sweetheart #7 ordered on Ebay. My bid is at about a third of the cost of a new one from Lie Nielsen. I feel confident based on watching YouTube videos that tuning the sole and sharpening the blade is within my skill range.
I will cheap out on the tail vise. Rockler has one with anti-racking rods on sale for $70 for Black Friday. I anticipate using the tail vise mostly to hold boards against dogs, so this doesn't need to be that fancy. Also, a vise like this is good enough for Paul Sellers . . .
But I am still going to pony up for the Lie Nielsen face vise hardware ($250).

All in I'll spend about $1k less than I was originally inclined to. Save a penny earn a penny! :hammer:


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

jags217 said:


> *MONEY TALK*
> 
> Earlier we were discussing my financial restraint (or lack thereof) when it comes to tool acquisition. Well, the shop still needs more tools. Particularly, we're missing:
> 
> ...


Love your levity!

Most people don't have the finances to start a new hobby with the newest, shiniest tools. You are probably in better shape than a lot of us, to be able to afford the "best" right out of the gate. My previous suggestion was that you shouldn't think of the most expensive tools as the best tools *for you*. I have expensive saws and planes. But I also have old and cheaper tools that I found on eBay, flea markets and back yards, that I had to refurbish. I've bought tools on the recommendation of "big stars" of YouTube, and found them to be lacking for me. (They may be great tools overall.) Over time, I found my favorites, and it is truly a mix.

If you have the money, go for the "big boys". But keep your mind and heart open.

My suggestion for old tools: Hit all the local antique/vintage shops within an hour's drive of you. Even little places that look like they only sell clothes may have a small shelf in the back. Any time you happen to be driving past, stop in. Good tools tend to get picked over relatively quickly. Don't be afraid to inquire with the owner.

If you happen to be driving near a garage sale, check in with them. Even if they don't have any tools out for sale, inquire with the owner; they may have "that old thing" in a box somewhere. Usually to them it's junk, which means it's a good price for you. 

Look at Craigslist periodically.

Join a local woodworking guild. They'll usually have sale or trade opportunities, and sometimes even giveaways for newcomers. Unfortunately, there's not one in my area, so this one's a no-go for me. 

P.S. I enjoy refurbishing old tools, and don't mind spending time to find the diamond in them. Finding a rusted old tool in the bottom of a toolbox is not a turn off. I do this with roadside finds, and machines also. My wife doesn't even ask me about things I drag to the front porch any more.


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## phaelax (Dec 24, 2018)

As someone already said, you can never have too many clamps! I actually buy all my clamps from harbor freight, they work pretty well I think (never slipped or came loose on me) and cost a tiny fraction of what you'd pay for similar clamps anywhere else. It's like 5 for the price of 1. So if money is tight, it's something to consider. Better than nothing right?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

jags217 said:


> ................................At some point I need to decide how wide I want this thing to be. I have the 2x4s to make it about 20" deep. Or I could add the tool well per the instructions. Then I'd be at about 25". That's as deep as a man ought to need, especially in a room only 10' deep........................


25" is a ood depth and a tool well is really nice to have. I always have one on all the work benches I made. Its nice to be able to just sweep your arm across the top and sweep all the misc. tools into the well. To me, it's a must have item. 

As for your budget, dont waste it even on good stuff if you dont need it right away. Buy tools as you need them, unless of course they come at a price that just cant be turned down.

You are doing just fine so for. You are gaining in knowledge and experience at a good rate. 

If you get on youtube, you can find many vices that are easy to build usin inexpensive plumbing and piping 

As for clamps, The run of the mill clamps at Harbor Freight are a good value Just keep in mind that you cant really crank down on them or they will break. If you just use moderate pressure, they are fine and moderate pressure is normally all that is needed. As someone said earlier, you never have too many. But for now, just buy them as you need them. It don't take long to run your budget dry. Pipe clamps are great both in 1/2" and 3/4 ". Most pipes come threaded at least on one end. I have bought them sever times at Lowes and they even threaded the cut ends for me without charge. 

If you have a lathe, you van make your own mallets out of 4x4 or 2 2x4's glued together

Keep at it.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

phaelax said:


> As someone already said, you can never have too many clamps! I actually buy all my clamps from harbor freight, they work pretty well I think (never slipped or came loose on me) and cost a tiny fraction of what you'd pay for similar clamps anywhere else. It's like 5 for the price of 1. So if money is tight, it's something to consider. Better than nothing right?


I have various sizes of the Harbor Freight ratcheting clamps. The only nice things about them are:
1. Price. 
2. Lifetime guarantee. Thank goodness for that, because they break a lot, and I don't abuse them. You get what you pay for. See #1, above.

I have other types of clamps from other sources. The HF ratcheting clamps are one-hand fast and easy for quick needs, but they do not grip well. If I need something stronger and better, my "go to" clamps are the heavy-duty Bessey F-clamps. 

I looked at Harbor Freight's website, and I didn't realize until now that they sell various kinds of clamps other than the ratchet ones. I may give them a try, someday.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

Since we're talking workbenches and tools, I decided to take a picture of my workbench this evening. Believe it or not, I cleaned up this space before I began work. I've been building drawer parts all evening. The tools you see strewn all over are the tools I'm using. You can see some of my expensive tools mixed it with my not so expensive and "found" tools.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

phaelax said:


> As someone already said, you can never have too many clamps! I actually buy all my clamps from harbor freight, they work pretty well I think (never slipped or came loose on me) and cost a tiny fraction of what you'd pay for similar clamps anywhere else. It's like 5 for the price of 1. So if money is tight, it's something to consider. Better than nothing right?


You are right. HF clamps are great, especially for beginners, because they are inexpensive, work "well enough", and have a lifetime warranty.

I have moved up to Dubuque clamps, which I really like, but I still use my HF clamps when I need more.

There are lots of ways to clamp things. One that I've used periodically is a simple bungee cord for clamping a carcass. Can be wrapped all the way around, and makes squaring easy. However, not so good for clamping edge glued flat surfaces, as the force can bow the glue-up if you're not careful.


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## phaelax (Dec 24, 2018)

Theses are the two types I buy from HF. I've tightened them down quite a bit and never had one fail. Though sometimes it's tricky getting it to stay in place when tightening down.

https://www.harborfreight.com/36-in-aluminum-bar-clamp-60539.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/clamps-vises/6-inch-bar-clamp-96210.html


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

AwesomeOpossum74 said:


> Since we're talking workbenches and tools, I decided to take a picture of my workbench this evening.


i have no idea what AwesomeOpossum's skill level is, but his workbench look well _loved_. proof that you don't need a solid maple top on a furniture grade base to do woodworking


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

_Ogre said:


> i have no idea what AwesomeOpossum's skill level is, but his workbench look well _loved_. proof that you don't need a solid maple top on a furniture grade base to do woodworking


My workbenches have always been made with plywood tops - double layer, except for the rear section where (tool well) it drops down to one layer.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Thanks for all the workbench pictures! It gives me confidence that I'm going to be able to get good things done with mine.

I dimensioned the stretchers today. At first I was a little disappointed that I only got the two of them done in two hours. Did I not just do two legs in one hour thirty minutes the other day? But I realized that the stretchers are almost twice as long and are one and a half times as wide. So my efficiency actually increased quite a bit. Much room for improvement of course.

I rolled back my decision to buy the Lee Nielsen face vise. I ultimately picked up this one instead. It's a lot cheaper and it won't prevent me from installing the LN one later if I happen to find this unsuitable.

I really wish I had picked up extra wood when I ordered the wood for my bench, because I need a little more to finish this thing. I need a bit more 2x6 to serve as the jaws of the vise. So I guess I'm going back to the lumber yard this weekend, or on Friday morning. I may check out another place that's said to be cheaper and more noob friendly. And I guess I will pick out some wood for my next project. I'm thinking some sort of wall-mounted storage space for all the tools.

I will also visit a big box store to get some pipe clamps. I have a half dozen bar clamps and two parallel face clamps. However, the bar clamps are not very good for forcing wood together on account of not having any way of getting extra torque beyond the handgrip. With the parallel clamps, I can insert a hex key, but with only two, this doesn't give me enough high torque coverage.

I decided that I will not glue the mortise and tenon joints. I intend to drawbore them instead. I'm terrified of glue setting before I finish with things, and anyway drawboring doesn't look that hard. If anyone can recommend an inexpensive set of drawbore pins, I'd appreciate it.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I would rethink the idea of 'draw boring instead'. Draw boring is not meant to add that much strength, it is for pulling a joint closer and tighter - not for bonding. On a work bench leg, a dowel is just not going to work for very long. The white wood glues such as Elmers Glue All or some such name are fairly slow curing and have as much strength as you will need. As long as the joint is just slightly snug, it will work fine. If for some reason, the tenon is slightly loose, you can glue on a layer or two of wide shavings. 
If you really still dont want to glue the Mortise and tenon, run through bolts with washers and nuts. 

As for the vise, I'm sure it will do just fine. Also note, for now, you can use 1X6's for the vise jaws. if you dont think they will hold up, glue 2 1X6''s together to make a 2x6, thats assuming you still have 1X stock left over. 

The clamp issue, I am not there to actually see what you are talking about, so let me just say this....It takes a certain amount of experience, or an experienced person with you, to see how much clamping pressure to use. It's OK to use a moderate amount of pressure to hold to pieces together . If you r-e-a-l-l-y have to force 2 pieces together to close a joint, like in a table top, it may not hold forever. This is really hard to describe, so I will restate this, if you have to crank down with all you got, maybe you should go back and try to make a better joint. Also, depending on how big the gap, you can glue an additional piece there to act as a filler and plane it down to size. 

Other than that............keep on truckin'


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

_Ogre said:


> i have no idea what AwesomeOpossum's skill level is ...


Long enough to know I don't enjoy laying out dovetails, but do enjoy paring and chopping them. In solid wood, I typically free-cut them.
Long enough to confidently free-hand sharpen my tools, yet still need to reset the bevel every few sharpenings.
Long enough to have just about all the tools I need, yet every now and then find something else that would help my process.
Long enough to be able to hold my saw at 90 or 1:6 (for dovetails).
Long enough I can look at a piece of furniture, and pretty well know how it was assembled.
Long enough to be confident in my workmanship, make mistakes, and not be too worried about them.
Long enough to have favorite tools that you'll probably have to bury me with.

Long enough to know I still have a lot to learn, but possess enough experience to pass on knowledge.
Long enough to know there are people on this board who have much more experience than I.
Long enough to be about 5 years.



_Ogre said:


> ... but his workbench look well _loved_. proof that you don't need a solid maple top on a furniture grade base to do woodworking


Thanks, I think? 

I built it about 15 years ago as my garage "do everything" bench. At that time, I was largely using machines, doing home repair and upgrades, working on my cars, etc. It's simple construction, 8'x3', with 4x4 legs, 2x4 aprons and stretchers, and a 3/4" ply top. 
What you don't see on the other end is my metalworking vice, and the recently installed second face vice I installed for my son to use. (that vice was passed to me from my grandfather and I refurbished it).

The top isn't perfectly flat. It wasn't built for fine woodworking. But it's sturdy, and it doesn't shake or bounce.

And yes, I am proud of it. If it weren't for this bench, I probably would not have had the wherewithal to begin my trek into fine woodworking.
@jags217, Thank you for keeping us updated. I enjoy watching your progress.

Paul Sellers has a video on drawbore. You can make your own drawbore dowels, or just buy generic dowels and cut them to length. I recommend you practice the process on scrap wood before doing it on your bench.

As I'm sure you're figuring out, your bench is probably going to be heavy. There's a reason for that ... so it doesn't rack and bounce as you do your work on it. Same goes for joints, which need to be tight so they can't move. It's elegant to think about not gluing, but a loose joint can produce undesired results. I'm not saying you *should* glue, but unless you plan to disassemble the table, it'll give you much more strength.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

So, the reason I had thought not to drawbore is that whenever I read up on it, people mentioned that when done properly the joint does not need glue to stay tight. For example, Paul Sellers says in his video on drawboring that glue isn't essential when making a drawbore joint.

That being said, maybe I'll try making one on some of the wood I buy this weekend and see if it's as tight as it should be. That should give me a little mortise and tenon practice as well, which is sure to be valuable in the near future.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

jags217 said:


> So, the reason I had thought not to drawbore is that whenever I read up on it, people mentioned that when done properly the joint does not need glue to stay tight. For example, Paul Sellers says in his video on drawboring that glue isn't essential when making a drawbore joint.
> 
> That being said, maybe I'll try making one on some of the wood I buy this weekend and see if it's as tight as it should be. That should give me a little mortise and tenon practice as well, which is sure to be valuable in the near future.


I would think typically, most furniture isn't subjected to forces that a workbench is. If you still want to go the drawbore route, maybe consider a doubled drawbore? But as @Tony B said, draw bore in white wood may not last long.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

The only time I ever see a draw bore used is when someone is making a breadboard end table top. That is where glue is not used because the ends must be free to move with seasonal changes. The holes are elongated to allow for this and dowels are used. The draw bore is to pull the end piece tighter to the long grain boards for aesthetic purposes. Even at this, one needs to be careful not to pull too tight or you will split the end piece. I really dont believe this will work for a work bench which is under much greater stresses than an end decorative piece on a table. 
The attached sketch may help you understand

Mortise and tenon joinery with adhesives has been used for thousands with great success and that is why it is still used today. Look up wedged tenons for better strength. 

My old house in the Hudson Valley was built in the early 1800's. In the attic, it was quite noticeable that large 'pins' (dowels) were used in the construction. This was common and also to note, it was normally used on green wood which is a whole different world from kiln dried lumber. There were no nails. BUTTTTTT.......the strength was also aided by the use of large cross-members. I have been in the repair and refinishing business for many, many years. About the only time I ever saw dowels used in furniture was during the great depression and much of the really cheap 1950's furniture. It saved on the cost of wood (no additional length for the tenons) and ease of assembly. Most of my furniture repairs were due to broken dowel. Most of my repairs that involved M&T joints was due to glue failure over a period of a hundred years or so. To repair the glue failure joints, it was a simple matter of cleaning up the joint and re-gluing.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

AwesomeOpossum74 said:


> Thanks, I think?


it was meant to be a compliment, in my twisted ogre way :smile:
simple and effective workbench that didn't set you back a house payment


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## bob493 (Nov 13, 2019)

Hey dude, glad to see you getting into this craft, its rewarding and definitely takes some time. 

Im going to risk being a complete #@%-hole here and give you some tough love... Please take it for whats its worth, im not attacking you as a person nor am I trying to disparage you from getting into this. Those joints are completely unacceptable. They will NOT hold up, and will fail eventually. Either spring for a jointer, or work on your hand planing techniques here. Id say rip those boards apart and start over tbh. 

As far as clamps go, I might catch some flack here... I have some super high end bessey and I have harbor freight clamps. Yeah the bessey's are great, but I'd argue they really arent worth the money. I'd rather have 10 harbor freight clamps than 1 bessey clamp. F clamps at HF are stupid cheap and they are actually mad decent. IM NOT a shill trying to justify the cheap purchase, they are just good enough to do anything I need them to do, and Im not gentle. Stay away from their parallel and click/trigger clamps though lol, those are hot garbage. 

Things that are most important for a starter are blade quality objects. A good chisel, a good table saw blade, a good router bit, a good planer blade... those are far more important than having bessey parallel clamps. A good drill bit set, good sandpaper... I can think of so many things better to buy than bessey clamps. 


I highly recommend you find 
- a used no 7 or no 8 plane for cheap
- decent sharpening stones
- good drill bits
- a bunch of HF clamps
- a GOOD table saw blade (if you own one??)
- one or two GOOD chisels that fit sizes you need (i.e. 1/2 and 3/4 or whatever)
- a half decent pull saw 


Good luck! And dont be disparaged by my negativity my dude, I just see a lot of "positive reinforcement" on things that arent quality, and Id hate someone to give me that kind of encouragement. Hope you understand! Take your time, do it right, and you'll be much more rewarded.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

Not sure what bob's deal is ... just keep doing what you're doing, @jags217.


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## bob493 (Nov 13, 2019)

AwesomeOpossum74 said:


> Not sure what bob's deal is ... just keep doing what you're doing, @jags217.




:thumbdown: My "deal"? My "deal" is not pandering to new woodworkers regarding subpar work. You dont learn by having older members telling you you are doing great when you can do better. Positive reinforcement includes coaching on difficult things. Thats my "deal".


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

AwesomeOpossum74 said:


> Not sure what bob's deal is ... just keep doing what you're doing, @jags217.


agreed. we learn as we go and (hopefully) we learn from our mistakes :smile:
it's a workbench, if later on jags finds it wobbles, he can screw knee braces in
he's already learned that wood can't be glued up without a little massaging 
i would not rip it apart, it's a workbench. we all start somewhere


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## bob493 (Nov 13, 2019)

_Ogre said:


> agreed. we learn as we go and (hopefully) we learn from our mistakes :smile:
> it's a workbench, if later on jags finds it wobbles, he can screw knee braces in
> he's already learned that wood can't be glued up without a little massaging
> i would not rip it apart, it's a workbench. we all start somewhere


For better or worse, we all have different needs and perspectives on things. I'm sorry you take what I said so negatively, I'd personally find it more insulting for someone to basically lie to my face and tell me its fine when its not. Spending 15 minutes to fix it now, or spending hours chasing tails later when it inevitably fails seems to be a more enticing operation to me. And fwiw, its not about the "object" in question. From a workbench, not learning how to joint legs properly transposes into poor miters, which transposes into poor framing, which transposes into projects falling apart. It will echo further on, as his wobbly bench makes any precision work far more difficult. I made it very clear it wasn't an "attack" and wasnt intended to be taken as such. You two are doing more harm than good telling him its "good to go" in my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions... 

Theres one great thing about the internet. The absolute compendium of knowledge is enormous, and theres no need to always "learn from your mistakes" when plenty of us are here to teach and guide you to prevent them in the first place.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

bob, thanks! I agree the work is not good for that first joint especially. But I've consulted with a few more experienced woodworkers in my life and they have suggested the joints will likely hold up ok, given that the legs don't get too much stress put on them, and given that glue is very strong. That being said, I'm going to pick up more wood this weekend since I've decided I need a bit more for mounting the vises. So I guess I might as well pick another 2x4 and make another leg to replace the bad one. I can use the bad one for scrap or something else later.

For the vise: the front of the work bench will serve as the face of the vise. However, the vise and vise screw are mounted to the bottom of the bench, so I need to extend the front of the bench downward. There are two options I can think of.

1. I could glue a 2x6 as the frontmost piece of the laminated benchtop.

2. I could glue a 2x2 to the bottom of the bench. I'd drill the holes for the vise screw through this 2x2. It would make the benchtop about 5" tall where the vise lives, with the rest of the bench being 3.5" tall. The vise would be mounted directly to the right of the left front leg, with the jaw extending to the end of the bench on the left side. So the 2x2 would be glued from the edge of the leg to the other end of the vise jaw.

I am currently leaning toward option 2, because I want the front of the bench to be flush with the legs. If I made the front of the bench a 2x6, I'd have to saw out a cut for the legs to sit on, which seems tricky to get perfect.

I've included a drawing below. Does anyone have thoughts?


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

bob493 said:


> not learning how to joint legs properly...


Bob, just to be clear, are you objecting to the joint on the first leg, or do you think all of the legs I posted are unacceptable?


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

bob493 said:


> Theres one great thing about the internet. The absolute compendium of knowledge is enormous, and theres no need to always "learn from your mistakes" when plenty of us are here to teach and guide you to prevent them in the first place.


Ok, I get what you're trying to convey. But your delivery is rather unsupportive, no matter how you try to justify it. This guy is looking for guidance, asking questions (the right ones, in my opinion), and paying attention to the answers.

Can he be expected to be perfect? I don't see any major flaws in his work so far, and if he keeps going he'll have a fine bench. Don't scold a man for using the wrong bait; praise him for fishing.

I consider myself amateur at best. I make mistakes. I know what a good joint looks like, but I don't always make my joints perfect. Does that mean my projects are "unacceptable"? No. It just means I need to keep honing my skills. My finished projects look good, flaws and all. I can fix an imperfect dovetail with a shaving of wood to fill the gaps. No one will ever know; it'll be my secret.


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## bob493 (Nov 13, 2019)

jags217 said:


> Bob, just to be clear, are you objecting to the joint on the first leg, or do you think all of the legs I posted are unacceptable?


First off, thank you for taking my critique as intended. Im sincerely NOT trying to be rude or beat you up or anything silly like that. 

In the picture, the one on the far right side seems perfectly fine (from that face at least). The two middle ones are "ok" the one on the left I wouldn't use. 

I apologize for being pedantic here, but this is whats going on. Structurally, PVA glue forms a bond with itself, not the wood. The glue will penetrate the wood fibers and bond to itself, which is where its strength comes from. A proper glue joint will rip apart the wood before the glue fails. When you have gaps that large, the glue is unable to polymerize with itself properly and creates an extremely weak structure. Furthermore, PVA glue is EXTREMELY susceptible to moisture as well as temperature gradients, creating another failure point. Even titebond 3 will fail under moisture given enough of it and enough time. Over time, those gaps will develop into large cracks, and it will eventually just fall apart. 

So whats going on? I have a few theories.

1) Despite being a "hardwood" poplar is incredibly soft, and is inherently prone to warping. Sucks to hear it, but you MUST let your wood acclimate to your shop before chopping it up. What happens is the wood at the store will have a different humidity and temperature than what your workshop has. When you then cut it, it'll expand or contract, causing bowing and cupping, which is why its so difficult to get wood straight and keep it that way right off the bat. Also a lot of woods have internal tensions, and when you cut them, they will dramatically expand or contract. This is more an issue with figured woods though. 
2) Im only seeing a couple clamps here... adequate clamping pressure is also required (see my post above about buying a bunch of harbor freight f clamps). Since it IS a workbench, what I would do is cut the legs about 2 inches longer than they need to be, and screw the ends down. This gives 2 advantages. 1) The boards wont "slip" under glue up, and 2) gives you a mechanical advantage for clamping the rest of the board. When the glue is cured, then simply cut off the ends to desired length. 
3) Your hand planing technique is likely off. Flat =/= parallel. See my attached picture to see what I mean. 

Your improvement over the few boards youve done have been enormous though, I admittedly didnt see the updated pictures from the first couple, so I apologize for missing that part. I am more encouraging you to develop skills NOW, as it will only help you on future endeavors. While I may seem abrasive, I do wish someone was a little "harder" on me when I first started, as I had to struggle with a lot of growing pains when I first started out. The big thing is the game changes when you start using hardwoods that cost you 8$ a boardfoot and screw them up because you didnt learn techniques properly. You seem to be super receptive and eager to learn, and Im sure your bench will be a great start to your new hobby.


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## bob493 (Nov 13, 2019)

AwesomeOpossum74 said:


> Ok, I get what you're trying to convey. But your delivery is rather unsupportive, no matter how you try to justify it. This guy is looking for guidance, asking questions (the right ones, in my opinion), and paying attention to the answers.
> 
> Can he be expected to be perfect? I don't see any major flaws in his work so far, and if he keeps going he'll have a fine bench. Don't scold a man for using the wrong bait; praise him for fishing.
> 
> I consider myself amateur at best. I make mistakes. I know what a good joint looks like, but I don't always make my joints perfect. Does that mean my projects are "unacceptable"? No. It just means I need to keep honing my skills. My finished projects look good, flaws and all. I can fix an imperfect dovetail with a shaving of wood to fill the gaps. No one will ever know; it'll be my secret.


Right, I see how my tact wasnt quite there for my original comment. Got a lot of distracting personal stuff, so im just trying to keep my mind occupied at the moment and Im kind of strung out emotionally. I really didnt mean to be so "abrasive" for sure. 

As far as the "Tricks" go, superglue and sawdust has hidden more secrets in my shop than the CIA lol


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

I’ve gotta disagree with those that are disparaging drawbored M&T joints. Make the joints fit correctly, and the drawbore pins will do their job. Such joints have been made for millennia, as have those with some type of adhesive that were mentioned in another post. 

I drawbored my workbench legs without glue, figuring that if I ever needed to relocate it, I could drill the pins & remove the top. It is now a few years old and rock solid. No movement whatsoever. The legs are 5” x 5”, and the top is 4” thick. Two 3/8” pins per joint.









I’ve drawbored less massive projects with good results, too. I say go for it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

I picked up more wood today. What a disaster that was. I rented a U-Haul, which ended up being more expensive than I thought, and then I managed to ding someone's car in the Home Depot parking lot. So in an attempt to save money on shipping the wood, I actually ended up spending an extra hundred bucks. Doh.

I received my jointer plane from Ebay and sharpened it up. I'm hoping to use it tonight to joint some of the boards for the top. I also got a passel of pipe clamps and some more parallel jaw clamps. I should have enough now to, along with the bar clamps, laminate the benchtop.

I spent an hour and a half doing some minor tuning work on the jointer. It didn't come in bad shape:










The blade shows signs of having been hand-sharpened for a long time.










I had to take off quite a bit of material to get the main bevel to 25 degrees. Then I put a 30 deg microbevel on it.










I was able to take some shavings with it. I'm pretty stoked!


















I ordered some wet-dry paper that I'll use to flatten the sole, because my straight edge shows it has a bit of a frown.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Well, I'm sad. This new mortise gauge I got doesn't seem to be capable of addressing my needs. The maximum extension from the stop block of the inner pin is only about 15/16". I'm going to cut a 1in mortise, and my stock is 3 1/2" wide, so I need the pin to extend 1 1/4" from the stop block on the mortise gauge. D:










I'm kind of shocked by the poverty of the design of this thing, but I guess that is what I get for ordering something for $15 on Amazon. So I'm stuck on assembling the base until after the thanksgiving holidays, unless I can get something higher quality before we go out of town on Sunday. Even then, I'm set back several days. (Edit: I despaired too soon! Apparently there is a high quality woodworking tools shop just a few stops from where I live on the R. I'm going to go down there and pick up one of their marking gauges tomorrow.)

My additional pipe clamps are coming tomorrow and Wednesday. I returned my parallel clamps, since I figured it would be easier to have just one type. So I'm blocked until Wednesday evening. It does not feel good!


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

jags217 said:


> Well, I'm sad. This new mortise gauge I got doesn't seem to be capable of addressing my needs....


It looks like your hitting a good groove on your project. Don’t despair about that gauge, you can do what you need to do more accurately without it or if you just use the scribe on the near side. The way to do it is to mark the near face, and without changing the setting, flip the workpiece around and Mark the opposite face with that same setting — that’s the right way to get both faces perfectly balanced under the tenon/tongue. 

This brings up an important point: generally, the method is to cut your tenons first, then hold that tenon in place and using a sharp knife, mark/layout your mortises directly off the actual tenon for that exact location, no gauging or measuring needed. If you’re nervous, chop your mortise a bit undersized and then “sneak up” on your finished size for a snug fit. 

The tenons and mortises are not required to be exact proportions, so don’t get hung up on that gauge or too much numeric precision for the tenons, but being cut straight, plumb, and close fitting is. The mortises benefit by being about 1/4” deeper than the tenons. 

Your project is a great running thread, thank you for sharing it with us!

— Bradley


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

@Scurvy, thanks for the kind words.

Tonight I went to Tools for Working Wood and bought a mortising gauge. It works much better than the old one. That's quality hand workmanship vs. cheap mass manufacturing for you. Honestly, the old gauge seems like it is designed by someone who has only seen a mortising gauge and never actually used one.










Mortising gauge in hand, I marked things out and started cutting. I'm following Paul Sellers' method . . . well, trying to anyawy. Here are a few pics of the work in progress.


















And the mortise, after about two hours of work:










If I can be frank, I'm not 100% happy. Who doesn't dream of their first mortise looking just like Paul's? What happened is, when I was cutting the side we're facing, the chisel wandered a little toward the side that's dug out. That's why it's not like that across that entire face.

My plan right now is to first check the dimensions of the two sides and see if they are square and straight on each end. Then I will check the high points and see if there is any part that needs to be pared down. After that, I'll cut the tenon and see how the fit feels. I'll leave it large so maybe the mortise can be expanded a little to accept it if there are concavities inside the mortise.

Worst to worst, I can cut the mortise off and make this piece one of the four horizontal stretchers. They are shorter than the legs, so we can definitely still use most of the wood. Or, I could just go and get some drawbore pins and double-drawbore this thing shut. I've read that drawbore joints are very tolerant of imperfect mortising, especially when combined with glue. Things to think about.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Of course we all want our first whacks at anything to be outstanding and look sexy and so on, but that’s why we get to crawl before we walk, and walk before we run. Don’t worry, all is not lost on this effort, and you’ll be able to salvage your work and wood. 

A) Your mortise looks very coarse and I think that’s because it appears you are trying to get your first cuts to go right to your lines. Please don’t try that; the idea is Indeed to make those first cuts, and in fact most of your cuts, as rather coarse bulk removal cuts that leave a good 1/8”-1/16” of stock before you cut to the layout lines. 

THEN use very careful, controlled (no mallet) “paring” cuts to more slowly and precisely come to the lines. Actually you can use the mallet, but this step is all about GENTLE, so only tap, tap, tap. 

B) So to salvage what you’ve done so far, just make your mortise 1/8” bigger on each side. Remember, you’ve already done the gross removal step, so do the expansion very gently and not so fast.

This is an excellent learning moment for you: That mortise and tenon will be mostly hidden from view, and you are getting to deviate very slightly from your initial design in order to save your work and material. A no-cost deal!

C) Trace those layout lines to the back side of your through mortises, and work those from the back side. Go half way from the front, then the other half way from the rear side. 

D) Gross removal for mortises is often accomplished to the greatest extent possible by drilling the bulk out with an auger bit or spade bit, and then finishing things off with the chisels. 

A good general rule in woodworking is to leave everything with a bit of waste to be removed later once you’re comfy with how the process is going — leave some fat on the bone, and sneak up on your dimensions. Often this means to use a coarse tool for those initial gross cuts, but then follow up with a finer (and slower) and more controllable tool to arrive at the final lines.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

@Scurvy: Good point r.e. just widening the mortise a little. I made a 1" wide mortise, because that's how big of a chisel I have, but I believe this face of the leg is actually 3 1/2" wide. Looking at it this morning, it seems like I went about 1/16" wide of the line on the busted side of my mortise. So I should be able to get away with re-marking the mortise, establishing a knife wall, and chiseling down that side.

R.e. not going directly into the line: in general I agree, but that's exactly what the method I'm trying to follow suggests. 



 The width of the chisel is meant to establish the width of the mortise.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

jags217 said:


> R.e. not going directly into the line: in general I agree, but that's exactly what the method I'm trying to follow suggests.


It's pretty much a rule for any joint that, when paring to a line, you should have some depth already chopped out. So for your mortise, you will have rough chopped at least 1/4". Then you can pare to your line. The 1/4" depth gives some strength to the wood to prevent your chisel from pushing past the wall. After that you can chop away using your wall as a guide.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

First mortise and tenon are nearly done. I just need to clean up the cheeks a little to get them to sit flush. It's not quite as tight as I'd like it to be. Actually, I got it 90% of the way in, but it was too tight. Then I took it out, took the slightest shaving, and then it was a little loose! Damnation! But it's probably close enough. It's still a mighty struggle to get it apart.

At this rate, it will be another fourteen nights of work to get the remaining mortises and tenons for the base done. However, I suspect it will not take that long, for a few reasons. First, I'm getting better with that there chisel. 

Second, maybe more important: I'm only going to hide the tenon on the top joints, because I want the benchtop to sit on the legs and the rails. The rest will be full height tenons. I tell you, I need to watch a few more videos about how to mark tenons when they aren't full height. I couldn't get the knack of it on this first one. If you cut off the top and bottom of the tenon, you no longer know where your line is. If you don't, you can't test the fit! I think the correct play is probably to get the tenon sized and flat so that the corners can slide in, and only then to cut the top and bottom off. That way you have your line available the entire time.

I'm really glad I remembered seeing that you can split the tenon waste off. That made the work so much easier. I had started to do it by sawing, but that was taking forever. I'm also not very good yet at staying outside the line when I saw. So I was about to go under the line, and moreover it was taking ages. But it was the work of five or ten minutes with the chisel to get the vast majority of the waste off.

I am so happy that I saw Paul Sellers' advice to make a high bench. My back is killing me right now from working over these workmates. Admittedly they are only like 28 inches tall but even a 32 or 34" bench seems like it would require a lot of bending over. I'm going to make this thing as tall as my remaining leg pieces will let me.

Pics:


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Ah. I just watched a video that explains it. So I can keep using Paul's method, I just need to modify one thing. I need to cut the top and bottom of my tenon before I start cutting the mortise. So the width of my mortise and tenon can still be governed by the chisel. But the height will be governed by ~whatever~ I cut it to. Nice!


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## homestd (Aug 24, 2018)

Good job on that last mortise! I'm 6'2" and my bench is 35". It is 1/4" lower than my table saw and no back aches.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

jags217 said:


> Ah. I just watched a video that explains it. So I can keep using Paul's method, I just need to modify one thing. I need to cut the top and bottom of my tenon before I start cutting the mortise. So the width of my mortise and tenon can still be governed by the chisel. But the height will be governed by ~whatever~ I cut it to. Nice!


As I noted, cut the tenon and let it govern the hole (mortise). Don’t worry too much about blind tenon length, as the end grain is worthless for gluing. 

Bench height: (I have my architect’s hat on now): The correct height is derived by having a helper measure from the underside of your bent elbow when you are standing erect and relaxed. Your upper arms should be at your sides and your forearms should be parallel to the ground, take the measurement, and then SUBTRACT 6” from that measurement to determine the most ergonomically correct height for the bench top.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

I managed to shape a decent tenon and make it most of the way through corresponding mortise in two and a half hours today. Speed still leaves much to be desired, but it's almost twice as fast as the last one, and for a much better product.

One thing I'm not thrilled with is my sawing. I'm either too far from the line or wandering over it. And it takes forever because the workmates aren't very rigid. (This last is also impacting my ability to pare the tenons -- the flex in the workmate absorbs a lot of the energy I'm putting into paring.) I can't wait to have a workbench. 

Also, I am never doing this from scratch again. If I ever move and can't bring my workbench with me, I'm definitely going with the plan of buying a pre-built one from HD or similar and then building a nice one with that in hand. Or at a minimum using hardware rather than traditional joinery. But, in for a penny, in for a pound.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Looking good. Better in fact!

Saw? What are you using, Western or Japanese? Saw to the inside (waste side) of the lines and then pare things back with your chisels. Btw, there are all sorts of ways to hold the chisels for different tasks and different ways to move in order to get the cut that you need. For example, doing the paring you’re up to now, I often hold the chisel by the shaft right at the work surface, not up on the “handle.”

Workmates: If you haven’t done this yet, get yourself a piece of 3/4” minimum thickness plywood, 1.25” is better, to make a quick top for them. The idea is to span from one Workmate to the other and grab the top in the Workmates’ clamping jaws. I personally like using a 3’ X 6’ top because it isn’t ridiculously too large in tight quarters, yet will easy take a 4 X 8 sheet of anything with 12” overhang, which is dandy for power tool use, and it will give you a decent amount of horizontal surface. The way to hold that top in place is to screw a 30” 2x4 parallel to and in about 18” from each end of the plywood; then position each Workmate appropriately to grab and clamp one of the 2x4’s. Voila, your Workmates will be much more stable and you’ll have a much more useful work surface. Now, you’ll need to clamp your workpieces to the new top.

For planing and some chiseling, you’ll need to fashion a planing stop by using 2 clamps to clamp a strip of wood or aluminum that’s <the thickness of your workpiece to the worktop and push your work piece against that strip as you plane. This is where screw clamps (hand screws) are the right call. For example, for working your legs or the edges of boards, one can clamp a hand screw or two to the workpiece, then clamp the hand screw down to the top at edge of the top. This is equivalent to a moxon vise or face vise.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

Keep going!

Bench height: I'm 6'3. I'm not home right now, but I believe my bench is 33" high. I'm not uncomfortable using it, but it could probably be another couple inches high. You also don't want your bench to be so high that it's cumbersome to work on assembled projects.

Mortising: Have you considered drilling (brace and bit) out most of the mortise material, then chopping/paring the remaining? This can be a big time saver for large mortises.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Honestly the mortise is probably the easier and less stressful of the two. The tenon is what has me sweating right now. And I feel like I'm getting even faster with the pure chisel technique as I practice it. The other thing is I'd worry about staying inside the lines if I were drilling, whereas if I chisel, and properly establish a knife wall first, I can hardly go outside the lines. Look at how clean that mortise wall is! 

The thing I learned about tenons last night is this: Split the waste off as much as you can, then pare from the end until you get down to <1/8" of waste. Ideally <1/16". Once the tenon is relatively flat and has only a little waste left, it's possible to do the cross-grain chisel paring to get it all the way down to the line. Also, I honed my chisel once the paring was done and that really helped out.

R.e. putting a top on the workmates: Honestly having a flat top would probably be a hindrance in some ways. I've been using the workmates themselves to clamp the workpieces. One thing I have considered is to pause the joinery and do the benchtop, including maybe even installing the vise. Then I could continue work on the frame at least with the benchtop and face vise in hand. Something to ponder. The frame won't be much use without the benchtop in any case, but the benchtop may be some use without the frame.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You have probaly seen this video?*







And this article?
https://paulsellers.com/2019/04/mortise-guides-at-the-ready/


To keep the walls of the mortise vertical, use a squared block as a guide for the back of your mortise chisel. This will insure that you don't "undercut" the walls making and opening large than the tenon:
https://paulsellers.com/2017/12/devloping-mortise-alignment-jig/


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

@woodnthings, yes, that is the technique I am using (the bevel edge chisel version of it). Just given how fast it seems like Paul is able to do this, I feel it's simply a matter of practice more than anything.


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

When sawing the tenons, have you tried creating a knife wall? It’ll guide your saw as you start your cut. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

I have created a knife wall, but perhaps not deep enough? I'll try again on the next one. But it's going to be a little while. I'm taking advice from earlier in the thread and building the benchtop + installing the vise before proceeding with any more mortise and tenon work. Having a more stable +higher platform is just going to make my life a whole lot easier.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Good idea. Sometimes it's helpful to take a break from something you are getting too focused on. At least for me it is. Sometimes when i take a break from it and later on return, I seem to be better at it than I was when i left it last.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

The real break is going to come because we are heading back to my folks for Thanksgiving. So I'll see y'all on here next Saturday!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Happy Holiday and safe travels


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

What type of saw are you using? A rip blade really is a help cutting tenon faces — less wandering.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

All right then eh chaps? Back from Thanksgiving! I hope yours were great. Mine was somewhat cursed, but despite that I'm thankful to have been able to spend time with the folks and the grandparents.

In terms of building this workbench, I decided to take advice and glue up the top in two separate passes. A good thing too because I scarcely had enough glue to laminate the first five boards. Even with what I had, there are one or two joints that have slight gaps, which I'm not a fan of. 

For the remaining four boards to be laminated, I erred on the side of too much glue. I also had the benefit of a plastic putty spreader and a foam roller, which helped me get the glue spread out much faster. The glue up came together much better than the first. And so. Now the benchtop is all one solid piece. Tomorrow it will be set and I can begin preparing it to use as a work surface.

My todo list is as follows:

1. Flip the bench over, clamp it up to the workmates, and plane it flat.
2. Glue the vise face to the left front of the bench (as you face it). This will be a 2x4 piece of wood that will be flush with the face of the bench and extend to where the left front leg will meet the benchtop.
3. Install the vise. Install temporary fins/keels that will clamp into the workmates near the middle of the bench.
4. Flip the vise back over and plane down the top to roughly flat.
5. Use the vise and the benchtop to build the tool well. Maybe this would be a good time to drill dog holes as well.
6. Glue up the tool well to the benchtop.
7. Use the vise, benchtop, and finished tool well to finish building the legs.


In between somewhere I may take the time to fashion some longer winding sticks and a stop block for my plane blades and chisels. But I could easily picture having a working vise by Sunday, which means there's a chance of getting this thing done before the Christmas holiday starts. That would be quite a thing, if I could manage it.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Ha! Pretty amazing how the glue-up can so quickly get squirrelly, isn’t it?

Don’t sweat the gaps; instead remember that if it all goes according to plan, you will be regularly beating on your bench, you will scar it, gouge it, mistakenly spill all manner of substances on it, and generally give it a somewhat harsh life. This “road wear” will reward you with a lot of help, great projects, and hopefully fun. You aren’t giving it to your grandmother as a mantelpiece, it’s not intended to win beauty contests either.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Whew! After planing, the gaps don't look so bad. The bench top/bottom is done.

This side took me all night, from about 7pm until 11:30pm with a half hour break. There was a lot of material to remove, because two boards were bowed down and the rest were straight. So most of the surface was 1/16" high, and had to be taken down. I collected a great huge bag of plane shavings. But I think I'll be happy to work on the result! And I'll be happy to spend less time on the other side tomorrow.

I may spend just a little more time planing this side, as it seems that on some parts the benchtop is about 1/32" out of flat across its depth. I don't have a long enough straight edge to test the whole width, but it is flat according to my jointer plane and my ~3ft straight edge. I checked for twist locally by wiggling the straight edge, but I haven't checked for twist along the entire length yet. One of the sides is out of square with this top. My plan is to set it on its side tomorrow and use the flattened top as a reference surface. Then I'll plane down the side that is out of square.

One thing I'm not 100% sure on is whether I have the stamina to actually thickness this thing. What if it's tilted? I would probably die of exhaustion if I had to take 1/8" off of half of the other side. Well what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Unless it maims you or cripples you. Let's not think on this possibility shall we?

I also got to practice my sawing some more by sawing off the tailings of the bench. I watched one or two youtube videos and you know what? It turns out it's not that hard to saw square if you just pay attention and be careful. What do you know. I hope my next tenons show the benefits of this insight.

Here are some pictures from today's efforts.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

This is where the toothed blade for your low angle plane would help speed things up flattening the top. Makes the plane act more like a scrub plane for faster wood removal.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Yeah, I watched a couple YouTube videos of some guys using that toothed iron and it looks freakin awesome. I'm going to order it when I get home.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Terry Q said:


> This is where the toothed blade for your low angle plane would help speed things up flattening the top. Makes the plane act more like a scrub plane for faster wood removal.





jags217 said:


> Yeah, I watched a couple YouTube videos of some guys using that toothed iron and it looks freakin awesome. I'm going to order it when I get home.


Yes the toothed blade is good for that exercise, i have one, but it still doesn’t match a scrub plane. A few years ago I was lucky enough to buy an unused Lie-Niesen for cheap, didn’t think I would ever need it, then sold it off. A year or so later I needed it to scrub off a bunch of material on a big chunk of salvaged wood and was dismayed by the fiscal penalty for my poor choice to sell that plane, so I instead spent a lot less on the toothed blade. 

The scrub is lighter, narrower, and free from tedious set up resets — this makes it handle very quickly, the open mouth does not clog, and the curved blade easily chows through the wood, including knots. They are incredibly efficient at their task, especially on stock too wide for a bandsaw or planer. For someone like me who does a lot of trim and molding work, it excels at easing the back side of the stock, which is essential to get it to lay flat; a router is a very poor and laborious substitute. This easing task is what will lead me to replace that missing scrub plane.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

I made my first dumbass mistake tonight.

The vise I bought wants the jaw to be 2 1/2" + epsilon taller than the bench. Unfortunately, my 2x6 offcuts are just a smidge too short to serve that purpose (they have 2" of height in excess of the 3.5" bench). So I decided to extend the offcut by gluing on some extra material. This will be the bottom of the vise where we bore through and attach the vise.










Also, I need a 2 1/2" apron, so that's what this is.










Uh, oops. I'm right-handed. Screw-up accomplished. I glued another offcut to the other side and all is well. Things will look symmetrical at least.










My intention is to pare all of this stuff so that it's got a little curve on the bottom and looks nice.

It's my intention to bore the holes and finish the vise tomorrow. After that, I, uh, sort of have a workbench? We still need the tool well and the legs but the main functional surface is there.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

It’s coming together nicely! I missed which wood you’re using, poplar?

With that whole surfacing exercise, you learned something important: It is much easier to get all the sticks properly edge jointed in small batches to an acceptable flatness on what will be the top surface and then do the glue up. The key is then, using a reference surface (a cheap hollow core door is your friend here), to glue up with the top surface face down against the reference surface. This implies the underside of the slab can be left a bit wild, other than where critical connections occur, but those are far more limited in scope and can be addressed after it becomes a slab.

You’ll still have to do some surfacing after the glue-up, but you’ll likely not have to remove that 1/16” to bring the bulk of the slab down to meet your low spots. Given this is going in your workshop and not the dining room, one last cheat I would personally consider for that issue might be to simply fill the low spots or gaps with clear epoxy and fair it smooth, because once you put your bench to proper use, there’s a good chance you’ll need to do that down the road to fix a divot or misplaced holdfast hole.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Oh yeah, one last thing, the low spot thing is why it’s a good idea to do a pre-glue fit-up, using clamps in this case to preview your work, and have a chance to make corrections “before the glue sets.”. That is a critical step for more complicated assemblies.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

I made a template for the holes I needed to bore for the vise. I started the process of boring one hole and quickly came to the realization that

1. I might need a new drill battery.
2. I would love to have a drill press!

My battery ran out before I even finished boring the first hole. Now, I think part of the problem is technique. I think I let the forstner bit get jammed with waste. That was causing it to not cut and ended up wasting a lot of battery. I think I also was using too high of a speed. I hope I didn't ruin the bit but I don't really know how to tell.

(The above was written last night.)

And now: I finished boring the other guide rod holes and screw hole on the jaw. It looks solid (IMO).

I do still have something of an intention to taper the bottom, but I feel my resolve weakening a little bit. I really want to have this thing done so I can start working on other stuff! Maybe I can take it off after the bench is built and do it then.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Vise holes all bored. Phew! Only after doing this work did I read how to use a Forstner bit. Supposedly about 3/4", a drill press is highly recommended. Well the jags model drill press got the job done, although I probably came close to burning out the motor of my drill. The battery gave out for a second time when I was almost punched through on the last bore hole, so I chiseled away the remainder of the waste.

For anyone whose curious, yesterday and today are the first two times this battery has been used to its full capacity in more than ten years of owning this drill. Something about that makes me feel a little badass.

With the jaw clamped up and in position with the top of the jaw 1/16" above the top of the bench, I tightened the vise closed then marked all the screw positions. Tomorrow, when my new drill arrives and/or my old drill's battery recharges, I'll drill holes for the screws and finally attach the vise. So excited!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

WOW!
You certainly have come a long way. Building furniture should not really be challenging to you. 
Can't wait to see the final bench in action.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

@jags217

On every ones profile, including yours, there is a photo album.
Would be nice if you put this build (a shorter version, of course) in your first photo album.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

@jags217

On every ones profile, including yours, there is a photo album.
Would be nice if you put this build (a shorter version, of course) in your first photo album.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Good idea, Tony. Once it's all done, I will do that.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

That's done! I'll admit I'm slightly disappointed. The vise has quite a bit of racking going on. Now, it could be that I ran out of #14 1 1/2" screws, cause I'm an idiot. So I didn't attach the support collets to the skirt section. I guess those puppies weren't optional after all. I can see them moving around when I yank the vise, so I think fixing them to the bench might be the medicine I need. I hope that backing out the vise plate screws won't ruin the holes, but if it does, I can position the plate a half inch back with no harm done. So while the bench is usable now, I need to wait until Wednesday to get that fixed up.

My new drill is flipping awesome. I guess since my previous drill was manufactured they figured out how to let you tighten the chuck with only one hand? Massively more convenient. As is having two separate drilling speeds. Indeed, that would have been useful last night.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

I've been traveling the last 1.5 weeks. Looks like you've made great progress, and the top looks great! Pro Tip: Your bench is like your car. The first scratch or dent is always the worst. Go ahead and get out a big hammer and whack that top once. Get that dreadful, remorseful feeling out of the way. 

On your comment I scanned earlier in the thread (which for some reason I can't find now) about being ready to be done ... Rule #1 in woodworking (or any hobby really) is to enjoy it.

You now have a solid bench top and vice. You can begin working on other projects.

While you work on other projects, don't forget your bench. Do one thing toward it's completion each day; a leg, a stretcher. Your bench will be built over time and it will feel like much less effort.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Thanks, yep! Right now I'm not feeling burnt out on this project at all. Tonight I will be drilling recesses for the vise collets. Tomorrow my #14 1 in screws come in, and I can use them to attach the collets. Although part of me is considering adding another board behind the skirt and attaching the collets with longer screws. I'm not sure it's needed because they should only be subject to moderate lateral loading, and I'm not sure that the depth of the screw matters very much in that case.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Collets in. They were two and a half inches wide but my largest forstner was 2 1/4". I drilled the bulk of the waste out with the forstner and then finished with my 1/4" chisel. The holes don't look perfect but they're OK. I now understand why they say to drill your widest hole first with the forstner. It definitely wants to wander around if the tip is not engaged, even in my little drill jig with clamps on the corners.

The collets did seem to suppress the racking I was seeing a little, but the vise still won't hold a 4x4 tightly without something also clamped in the other side. I'm now somewhat bitter about not spending a bit more for something nicer. Someone else told me that support rods with a rectangular cross section do a better job of suppressing racking, and I believe that now. Soon, maybe immediately, I'll make one of those anti-racking jigs I've seen.

On the plus side, I'm confident that if I so desired I could now install the twin screw vise I was lusting after initially. I've developed my chiseling and drilling skills at least to that point. So maybe that will be a project for down the line once the work bench is finished and I've done some of the other things I need.

Tomorrow I start in earnest on finishing up the legs.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Well I haven't been here in a minute, because I was sick for a few days, and other than that I've been busy in the shop. It's embarrassing to say, but the first two days of the week were taken up with repairing I mistake I made earlier. I failed to buy enough 2x6 to finish my tool well, so I had to fabricate some 2x6 stock out of 2x4 tailings. That went . . . better than expected, but still not well. I'm getting a lot of practice sawing though! Of course, once I'd made my stock, I ripped it slightly too narrow.  So there will be forever small gaps in between the walls of the tool well and the slopes at the ends. Well, they're lessons at least.

I learned a lot while cutting the first slope:










So there were some major improvements on the second one. 










These still need sanding, but they'll do for now, until I have some excess self-loathing to work off. Or maybe I'll just leave them as a reminder of where I'm coming from.

Tonight, wifey helped me glue up the tool well to the remainder of the workbench. 


















I plainly used insufficient glue on one of the joints. Or maybe I just spread it too thin. In any case, my perennial fault rears its ugly head again. But the joint is definitely strong enough for the load that will be put on it (i.e. almost none). Tomorrow I will try my best to cut another mortise and tenon in the left leg frame. I may have one more day of work left this year when we get home from our travels. If I don't speak with you until then, happy new year!


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Well we were away and then I was sick for a week, but I'm back in the saddle now. I finished one of the sets of legs. There is still a little more to be done, but it is more or less going to remain this way. Yep, the gap between the legs and the stretcher is kiiinda ugly but I'm also kiinda not going to try to fix it. The tenon is all the way through and reasonably tight. And I'm realizing more and more that this bench is hilariously overbuilt. If it's not optimal that's hardly going to matter because I'm not going to use it as the foundation of a house. It's just a workbench. I want to get this thing done at this point so I can have a steady platform to actually start building things.

Toward the end of this, I finally felt like I was starting to get the hang of mortises and tenons. But I think for the horizontal stretchers I am going to save myself some time and just use lap joints. The 5.5x3.5" contact area of glue should provide _plenty_ of strength, and I am in a time-saving mood. So tomorrow I will start on the other pair of legs, with the aim of finishing them early next week. Then I will cut the wood for the lap joints. I have also settled on another expedient of using lag bolts to attach the bench top to the legs. The hardware will not be visible and it'll be nice to have the ability to take the thing apart again if I ever need to move it.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Oh, also, I finished the benchtop.


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## kklowell (Apr 4, 2016)

Nice work...that top looks really nice to me.
I found that one way to use a forstner to enlarge a previously drilled hole is to first drill a hole with the correct forstner in a piece of scrap, then center and clamp that piece of scrap over the too-small hole. Put the bit in the hole and start your drill. That will keep the bit from wandering due to a lack of a working center point.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

I’m glad to see you building a nice workbench, something other than 2x4’s and/or a plywood top. It will provide a lifetime of service and is something you can be proud of.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Draw-bolts might be a worthwhile consideration rather than lap joints, as well as for the top.... They are reversible, and extremely strong.

What wood did you end up using for the top? It looks like poplar, but I thought you said you were using 2x4's.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Scurvy said:


> Draw-bolts might be a worthwhile consideration rather than lap joints, as well as for the top.... They are reversible, and extremely strong.
> 
> What wood did you end up using for the top? It looks like poplar, but I thought you said you were using 2x4's.


I will keep in mind the drawbolt possibility. I'm not sure, because I don't want any protruding fasteners on the front of the bench. I'm not sure I need the legs to be reversibly connected, because if we were to end up moving they are small enough to maneuver out of the room.

The top is made of laminated 2x4 poplar boards.


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## SEMIJim (Nov 26, 2019)

jags217 said:


> I will keep in mind the drawbolt possibility. I'm not sure, because I don't want any protruding fasteners on the front of the bench.


Use carriage bolts, or, if you use hex bolts, countersink the heads using a Forstner bit.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

*"Overbuilt" isn't bad.*



jags217 said:


> And I'm realizing more and more that this bench is hilariously overbuilt.


3 things a workbench needs to be: heavy, sturdy, flat. If you're a power tools guy, then the table may be overbuilt for that purpose. But if you're a hand tools guy, the heft and sturdiness will only come out in your favor.



jags217 said:


> Toward the end of this, I finally felt like I was starting to get the hang of mortises and tenons. But I think for the horizontal stretchers I am going to save myself some time and just use lap joints. The 5.5x3.5" contact area of glue should provide _plenty_ of strength, and I am in a time-saving mood.


M&t is much stronger than a lap joint, because you are able to glue both sides of the tenon, and because the mortise encases the tenon on all sides, it leaves the tenon no place to move. If you go with a lap joint, racking/twisting pressure will be transferred to the joint, and it could fail over time. You are working with poplar, a soft (Janka scale) wood; the glue might not fail, but the wood fibers could. A little extra time practicing your m&t's now could save you headache down the road.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Any plans for dog holes? If you're hand planing they are quite handy. (That means an end vise)



How is that Milescraft drill guide working for you?


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

F-style clamps are available at Harbor Freight...and they are as good as any ones I have seen. They are inexpensive, not cheap! 

You are doing great at your first bench build. Keep following Paul Sellers, he has a wealth of information and a skill at teaching. I have followed him for years, and his methods are excellent!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

You dont necessarily have to have an end vise for planing. Set your workpiece between two sets of dog holes and use wedges to fill in the gap.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Your first jig for your new bench should be a Bench Hook, a piece of plywood and 2 scrap strips of wood. It is a great device with lots of uses. Takes all of 5 minutes and some screws.
My internet connection is too slow right now for me to find one.
I'm sure @woodnthings can find a nice site for you That man can find anything.


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## BTS1987 (Jan 13, 2020)

You are so right, learn by doing. I wasted far too much time overthinking and over planning my projects. You can't get better if you don't start!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I can't find my truck keys .......*

But I did find a You Tube on making a bench hook .....






From this list:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=workbench+bench+hook


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

You are so right Show us your plans before you start so there wont be any corrections
Just Build Something!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks Bill\
I have a hard enough time just logging in on here when my internet is this slow.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Interesting video, but talk about making a short story long. 
Anyway, I alwasy made mine out of plywood and any hardwood scraps that were handy. I used mine for planing, sawing, chiseling and even belt sanding. Mine also were never that small. You can even make one to fit the corner of your bench.

Drill a hole in it and hang it up somewhere handy.


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## Doug in NY (Dec 27, 2019)

How is the build of the work bench going? This was the first post I started to read in December and what made me decide to join this forum. Fantastic progress so far.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

It's still going! I'm in the midst of cutting the mortises and tenons for the second set of legs. Slow going this weekend but on the plus side the quality of my joints is getting much better.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Apologies for the lack of updates. I've been having a bit of insomnia and haven't been motivated to work in the evening. But! I got into the office today and knocked out two tenons for the last stretcher of the second pair of legs. 

I think I finally have the hang of them. The process of splitting away the offcuts is finally clicking, and I think I understand the mechanics of wood grain that was causing me to go too deep before. What do you think? 

I did this in about an hour and a half, which is encouraging because normally a tenon will take me longer and won't look this good. Faster and better is a solid combo! The best thing is how repeatable it felt. Each of the four tenon faces took about the same amount of time and look about as good. So, mortises tomorrow night, hopefully. Then one last pair of long stretchers, assembly, and finishing.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

You’re right, you’ve got the hang of it, those look great! Thanks for sharing this project.


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## Doug in NY (Dec 27, 2019)

This post got me motivated and I built a work bench of my own this weekend. Finishing it up today. Thanks for getting me started.


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## youngdrume (Mar 15, 2020)

*woodworking*

i have a link help you out check it out 
(Link Removed - non operational)


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

welcome to the forum, YoungDrume.
where are you from ?
I removed the link that you mentioned as it does not work.
please check it out and see what's wrong.

.


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## jags217 (Oct 26, 2019)

Hah. Ironically, I'm very blocked at the moment on this project. The vise is . . . not good. I think the problem is that it requires you to put the metal piece so low, but the work pieces want to be high in the vise. So basically the clamping force has a huge amount of mechanical advantage and is pulling the vise jaw away from the hardware. I am experiencing screw pull out so I'm reluctant to use it at the moment.

Honestly I think this vise is just not suitable for a thick work bench. They should have design the front of the vise with some vertical support to prevent the mechanical advantage situation I'm talking about. Now I see why the Lie Nielsen vise wants to be embedded in the bench: it reduces the mechanical advantage of the clamping resistance pressure from the workpiece. It moves the center of force closer to the middle of the bench. I am planning to get one of these and replace the vise I have with it. If it's good enough for Paul Sellers it should be good enough for me.


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