# Any Rockwell Invicta 22-650 planer owners?



## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Just picked up a Rockwell Invicta 22-650 planer at a yard sale.
Got a few questions, I can't find answers for in manuals online.
It doesn't have the big lever to engage feed rollers, like simiiar Delta planers.
It has a part called a clutch shaft, that comes out of the gear box near the bottom. Mine is stuck, and the handle is missing. Does this engage te feed rollers?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Here is a vendor that has scanned the manual on a disc for sale. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-13-Pl...2-650-RC-33-/140536088772?hash=item20b89a88c4

If it has a missing lever you will probably have to fabricate one.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> Here is a vendor that has scanned the manual on a disc for sale. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-13-Pl...2-650-RC-33-/140536088772?hash=item20b89a88c4
> 
> If it has a missing lever you will probably have to fabricate one.


Problem is, that manual is for a similar planer, but not the Invicta 22-650
Mine doesn't have the big lever. The lever isn't missing. It wasn't made with one. On that planer the big lever engages/disengages the feed rollers.
There is a small knob (t handle) near the bottom of the gear case, on mine, which as far as I can tell from the parts diagram on Delta's web site, might engage/disengage the rollers. Just not sure.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't know. I've never used a planer that had such a lever. I have a 22-560 planer and the feed rollers turn if the motor does. I do have a 24" planer that has two separate motors for the head and feed which you can turn on separately. I think if you would open the cabinet on up yours where you could see how the feed rollers are driven you could see if there is a mechanism to disengage them. You probably should open it up anyway. The feed rollers are normally chain driven so I'm sure it could use some maintenance. It probably needs some cleaning and the chain oiled. The Rockwell planer I have there is a square block which holds the bearings of the feed rollers. The square block has a spring that puts down pressure on the rollers. On mine the square blocks are in a tract that is under such tight tolerances the least little dirt gets in there and holds the blocks up so the feed rollers end up slipping.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Here is a parts diagram showing the knob #219, and shaft # 216, that looks like it moves gear # 210 on it's shaft, to engage/disengage gear # 207. Looks like the shafe that gear # 210 is on, has a detent in it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It's difficult to make out. It doesn't appear from the illustration the parts 216 thru 219 have anything to do with 202 thru 215 which I think is the chain drive.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> It's difficult to make out. It doesn't appear from the illustration the parts 216 thru 219 have anything to do with 202 thru 215 which I think is the chain drive.


The parts 205 thru 215 and 216 thru 216 are all inside the gear case. Knob 219 is outside.
If you look at the very top of diagram, you will see the drive sprocket, that chain drives the feed rollers. 

Here is a link to the diagram I copied the gear box part from. Not that easy to understand. At least for me.

I'm now trying to remove the bed rollers. set screws are out, but eccentric stub shafts don't want to come out. They turn freely and move back and forth with the roller, but that's it.

http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Parts-Lists/22-655-Model-RC-33-13-Inch-Planer-P2A.pdf


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I can't understand the diagram either. I seriously doubt if that knob engages and disengages the feed rollers. The only real purpose for that would be is if you started planing a board and something went wrong you could pull a lever or something and stop it from feeding. That would be too cumbersome for that purpose. I think the knob likely is to lock the head in place so you can change the knives.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

To me it looks like the notch in shaft #216, would ride over gear # 210, which rides on shaft # 213, which looks to have a detent.
If gear #210 is slid so it doesn't engage gear # 207, the cutterhead and feed rollers would be disengaged. Maybe to be able to turn them by hand to change knives.

I agree that having to pull the small knob# 219, would be cumbersome, if stopping feed is needed. Which is something you want to be able to do fast. My Boice-Crane planer has a big D handle for that.

The table roller pins #231 just spin and don't want to come out. The set screws #230 are out. The end of the roller pins are slotted to adjust with a screw driver. (They are eccentric to raise rollers)
In the center of the slot, is a threaded 10-32 +/- hole. I can screw a machine screw in about 1/2" and it stops.
Thinking of using a slide hammer on the screw. The roller pin # 231, just goes into the bearing inside the table roller.

Darn aggravating. Don't want to muck it up.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I still think you need to open up the planer and tinker with the feed mechanism to see how it works. 

If the pin #230 doesn't need lubrication or maintenance why do you want to remove the table rollers?


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I want to remove the table rollers, because they are fairly rusty, and want to clean them up. Possibly machine them down a hair.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Keep in mind those rollers are a precise size to prevent friction with the table. If you machine them down they may be useless.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> Keep in mind those rollers are a precise size to prevent friction with the table. If you machine them down they may be useless.


The roller height is adjustable. As long as I can get them .015 above the table, I will be ok. .010 might even work. It's only needed that high for planing rough stock. 

Unlike Delta's excuse for a manual, I have a manual for my Boice-Crane planer that goes thru table roller height, infeed and outfeed roller height and pressure, chip breaker adjustment, pressure bar adjustments, and cut depths.
They apply to all planers that have the adjustments. Adjusted right, the Boice-Crane planer gives nice, snipe free cuts, without table locks, or infeed or outfeed tables.
Fingers crossed on how the Rockwell performs.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Got the table roller pins out. Screwed a machine screw in pin. and used a slide hammer to pull them out.


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## sgt_carbonero (Oct 14, 2015)

Hi All,
New here and my first post. I happen to have a 22-650 planer but it has the clutch handle on the side.

The reason I am posting to this sub is I am having pretty bad snipe issues and someone was speaking about the table rollers--does anyone think I would be ok removing them and making sure the table is waxed well? I know other newer planers don't even have table rollers so I wonder what you all think?

thanks,

carb


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I wouldn't remove the table rollers. Adjust them so they are above the table about .003. The specs are in the manual.
Wax the table of course.
Have you had the planer a while? If so, did it ever cut without snipe?
I would go thru the manual and check and adjust as needed.
Mine is cutting with no snipe. So, it's possible. 
The only things I have done since getting it, was, Change gear box oil, cleaning and paint. Removed, table rollers and cleaned them. Installed a dust hood. Honed the knives in place.
Good luck with it. Ask more questions if needed.
Let us know the results.


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## sgt_carbonero (Oct 14, 2015)

thanks, I just did a little overhaul on it, I've had it a few years and just adjusted the rollers, I will check gaps. I never even knew it had gear box oil until I read about it here yesterday, but I had the blades professionally resharpened.

Does doing the butted up pieces one after the other trick work when feeding? Another trick I read was place the wood on a longer flat board underneath but I dont know if that works.

I will let you know what I find but I suspect the rollers are too high even though I used a feeler gauge to set them.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Have fun filling the gear oil ! They tried to hide the fill plug.
You should be able to get no snipe, without lifting board ends up, or using a longer board under it. (Desperation methods I used when I had a lunchbox planner)
Mine doesn't snipe, so yours shouldn't. Make sense?
You might try more pressure on feed rollers.


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## sgt_carbonero (Oct 14, 2015)

Well i readjusted the rollers waaay, waaay down to .003 and it cuts like a champ. I had the rollers probably up to about a quarters' width. I just thought they should be level and coplanar but of course that did the trick.

Soo, I didnt even know about the gear oil, i spotted what looks like the drain plug underneath. I will check out the instructions to see how much I need and how. Will I have to remove the cover? looks like a few shear pins would need to be pressed out.

carb


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Great to hear you got it cutting good!
I didn't need to remove the cover to change gear oil. Just remove slotted plug on bottom to drain, and fill thru the slotted plug on side. I used a small piece of vinyl tubing, attached to a small funnel.


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## sgt_carbonero (Oct 14, 2015)

Thank you again... I cant seem to find any reference to gear oil or how much. I know its 90 wt but how much should I use?


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I went with 85W140 EP gear oil. Read somewhere it was what should be used. Here 

http://www.deltamachinery.com/faq/564-what-type-oil-is-used-in-the-15q-planer-gear-box

Delta recomends 140 EP or 85W140EP gear oil for the 15" planer


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Pirate said:


> Great to hear you got it cutting good!
> I didn't need to remove the cover to change gear oil. Just remove slotted plug on bottom to drain, and fill thru the slotted plug on side. I used a small piece of vinyl tubing, attached to a small funnel.



I correct myself. I did need to remove the outer cover, but not the gear case cover.
Mine doesn't have the lever to disengage the feed rollers.
Can you loosen up the cover and get to the drain/fill plugs, without removing the lever loll pin?
The pin might press out easily, or ............


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## Kjkacorn (Feb 13, 2017)

Pirate said:


> I correct myself. I did need to remove the outer cover, but not the gear case cover.
> Mine doesn't have the lever to disengage the feed rollers.
> Can you loosen up the cover and get to the drain/fill plugs, without removing the lever loll pin?
> The pin might press out easily, or ............


I have a 22-650 type 2 that I am overhauling. My area of concern are the bottom rollers - the eccentric ones. One spins freely, the other not so much. Pulling the roller remained a mystery until I discovered this thread. From what I gather, I can screw in a 10-32 into the center and use it as a purchase attachment to pull the roller free.m sound about right?


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

It's been a few years, but I think after you unscrew the eccentric, if it doesn't pull out of the bearing, a screw in the threaded hole can pull it out.
Then the small bearings can be lobed or replaced. 
Be sure to back off set screws, before unscrewing the eccentrics!
it's a nice planer


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Kjkacorn said:


> I have a 22-650 type 2 that I am overhauling. My area of concern are the bottom rollers - the eccentric ones. One spins freely, the other not so much. Pulling the roller remained a mystery until I discovered this thread. From what I gather, I can screw in a 10-32 into the center and use it as a purchase attachment to pull the roller free.m sound about right?


Both feed rollers are tied to each other. If one is not turning very well remove the cover on the left side and inspect the chain sprockets. I have a tooth broken off three of the sprockets on my planer. It sounds like you too many broken off.


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## Kjkacorn (Feb 13, 2017)

Thanks Pirate. I'll give it a go. On a different topic I can't seem to pull the cutter head out from the gearbox. I have the gear box separated from the body (with the cutter head attached), and it looks like the bearing is pressed into the gear box,however some gentle manipulation won't budge the cutter head out of the gear box. I did open the gear box to have a look at the bearing from the other side and its pressed too-no snap ring. Any thought or suggestions? I would like to replace the bearing, and give the cutter head body a good de rust and cleaning.


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## Kjkacorn (Feb 13, 2017)

Thanks - I'm referring to the bottom rollers, not the power feed rollers on the top next to the cutter head. I have both of these pulled and am in the process of finding replacement bearings and derusting/rehabbing both if them. Hopefully I'll get it all put back together. It's a Brazilian invecta circa 1984.


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## Kjkacorn (Feb 13, 2017)

Your method with the 10-32 screws worked like a charm. Good thing too, the sticky roller's bearings are shot - go figure. Thanks again.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I have never seen it in anyhing smaller than 1 qt. That will be plenty.


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## Kjkacorn (Feb 13, 2017)

I ended taking the cutter head and opened gearbox to a machine shop to have the bearing pressed out. Worth the time and cost. Didn't want to damage that old gearbox! Awaiting shipment of new bearings and then reassemble. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## kenmudd (Jul 3, 2019)

I just got a 22-650 on craigslist. Ran about 200 board feet through it before the feed chain snapped. replaced the chain and it broke immediately again. After further inspection, I found the bushing block seized onto the powered inlet feed roller on one side. Any ideas where I can get another feed roller and a couple bushing blocks?


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

I have a PM 18". If the pressure bar isn't set just right it snipes, a lot. Unfortunately the pressure bar can't be adjusted perfectly parallel to the table. Sloppy manufacturing!


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