# Carbide Roughing Tool



## mjbalata (Feb 8, 2009)

I just turned a 12" diameter segmented walnut bowl with my new toy. This thing works great.

It is from J&B Tools in Mississippi (Wise guy I am that I tried to spell it!)

This "Peeler" not only works, but is relatively inexpensive, versus the Ci1.

Their site:
http://www.jandbtools.com/

Great customer service. Take a look.
mjbalata


----------



## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

*Carbide roughing tool*

Congrats on the new tool.I'v heard of these folks before and they do seem to have a good rep.I got the Ci1,Ci2 an Ci0,but then he sent me extra tips for all of em.


----------



## lumber jock (Apr 11, 2009)

mjbalata said:


> I just turned a 12" diameter segmented walnut bowl with my new toy. This thing works great.
> 
> It is from J&B Tools in Mississippi (Wise guy I am that I tried to spell it!)
> 
> ...


mj, I'm curious as to how they stack up to the Ci1 Easy Rougher. I just bought my Ci1 last month. At less that half the price of the Ci1, a part of me is saying, DAMN! Kinda like having "buyers's remorse. If only you had posted this a month ago..................
It might sound like I'm griping, I'm not, I'm just saying that if this tool performs exactly like the Ci1,then why buy the Ci1. 
Or is it more of a " apples to oranges" comparison. So far I enjoy using my Ci1.


----------



## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

What about the Sorby version: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s..._45o_Shear_Scraper___sorby_shear_scraper?Args=

I was looking at these for the simple fact that I can buy 1 tool and intercharge the round or square cutter. 

Anyone use these at all?


----------



## mjbalata (Feb 8, 2009)

I referenced the Sorby tools at Craft Supp;ies. The description doesn't mention the cutters as being carbide. I think the value of the Ci0's and the J & B is the use of carbide cutters. Only my humble opinion.
MJ


----------



## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

mjbalata said:


> I referenced the Sorby tools at Craft Supp;ies. The description doesn't mention the cutters as being carbide. I think the value of the Ci0's and the J & B is the use of carbide cutters. Only my humble opinion.
> MJ


I didn't even pick up on that. I just assumed that those styles of tools (with the square and round replaceable cutters) were always carbide.

Wonder if they make replacement carbide cutters... That would make sense.


----------



## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

I found the same tool at Rockler.com and it says under the specs that the cutting head is made of HSS. I was wondering if one could by the carbide head from one of the other companies that make these similar tools and put it on the Sorby?:blink:


----------



## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

That is what I would like to know... or maybe if a Carbide one from another company just happens to fit... 

I put the Sorby tools on my Christmas list, so if I get them I might try it out.


----------



## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

If you change the tip to carbide the screw would be incorrect. The carbide cutters have a special tapered screw to hold them. this keeps the tool from twisting and holds it. If you use a standard screw or one without the taper you could fracture the carbide when you tighten the screw. 
I have built my own version of the C1 using a carbide cutter that is used on the spiral planer blade heads. I've also built several tools using the Hunter tool cutters.


----------



## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

well I was just clued into the fact that I'm not going to be getting the Sorby for Christmas, so that will get me the chance to shop around for a cheaper carbide version.

Does anyone know of a place that makes a cheaper version of the round carbide cutter, for internal cutting?


----------



## smeggy (Dec 7, 2009)

Well call me a total tool but I bought the Easy Rougher carbide cutters (square, 4R and round) and use them in my sorby handle. Nearly all the ER costs are in the handles and you need two of them if you want to do inside and outside work. Cutters are about $10 a piece, handles are over $100 each. They're nice, but not $200 nice.


----------



## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

Smeggy, Do I understand correctly, that you are using the the easy rougher tips in the Sorby? I think it was John Lucas in his post that said it couldn't be done because of the special taper in the screw that holds the carbide tip. If that is the case,myself and Dvoigt can put the Sorby back on the Christmas list. I'm not sure why it would take a special screw to hold a carbide tip vs. a hss tip onto a handle when both are under the same amount of pressure while turning? Has the carbide cutter worked good for you? Let us know.:thumbsup:


----------



## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I has a lot to do with how the tool bit is mounted. If the screw head is flat the the screw shank is straight then there won't be any problem. If you use a tapered screw or a counter sunk screw head you could easily fracture the carbide. The correct screws have a taper that fits the carbide cutters perfectly. These will hold it and keep it from rotating without putting excess sideways force on the taper.
The round cutters like Hunter tools have a recessed center area and a also use a tapered screw. If you put a flat head screw in it would probably work but the shaving might not flow across the tool in the same way. I don't know if this would be a good thing or bad thing but could cause some clogging on green wood. The screws that are designed for it fit flush.
You can buy the Hunter cutters and screws directly from Mike Hunter. They are more expensive than buying them from a manufacturer but you get the exact screws you need and it only runs about $25 or so for the cutter and screw. Since these things last years that's a pretty good bargain. You would need a very small metric tap and some skills tapping a hole that tiny to do the job right.
The cutters are typically mounted so the cutting edge is around the center of the tool shaft. This helps give them better control in the cut. However that does require some careful filing or a milling machine to cut rabbit necessary to hold the tool.


----------



## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

John I would love to be able to make my own roughing tool but I don't own a milling machine or any kind of metal fabrication tools. So I guess I'll have to "suck it up" and buy what I need.I wasn't aware that carbide was that vulnerable to fractures. Thanks for the info.


----------



## smeggy (Dec 7, 2009)

I use a bigger flat head screw that fits the sorby thread so it sits on top of the cutter. I had a screw that fitted in my toolbox. It's nice as the cutters do a good job of chewing the wood off. The handle and shank are smaller so it probably doesn't give as much control as the Easy Rougher but it works for me.


----------



## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I've been testing my Homemade easyrougher vs a 5x8" bowl gouge. I guess I've used the bowl gouge too much because I don't see any advantages for an experienced bowl gouge user. 
I do see how a beginner would like it because there is very little learning curve. However the shape of the piece is determined by how careful you are with the tool since any in and out movement will cut. 
 With a bowl gouge you have the bevel and the lever action at the end of the handle to control the cut so it's much more accurate.


----------



## smeggy (Dec 7, 2009)

I use them because the square blades are nice for the flat inner walls I need (headphone cups) so the carbide cutters are the perfect size/shape for me cutting both side and end at the same time. the round cutter is great for quickly swiffing off uneven parts in preparation for other tools. I rarely use a bowl gouge for my stuff as it's the wrong shape for my needs but it's nice to have them when I do.


----------



## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

john lucas said:


> I've been testing my Homemade easyrougher vs a 5x8" bowl gouge. I guess I've used the bowl gouge too much because I don't see any advantages for an experienced bowl gouge user.
> I do see how a beginner would like it because there is very little learning curve. However the shape of the piece is determined by how careful you are with the tool since any in and out movement will cut.
> With a bowl gouge you have the bevel and the lever action at the end of the handle to control the cut so it's much more accurate.


I thought that the round carbide cutter was supposed make a final shear cut so that you don't need to sand as much. That is my thought at least, shape it with a bowl gouge and then finish it with a carbide shear cut.


----------



## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

The round carbide cutters can be used to rough out the piece, turn the piece and clean it up. However I think the bowl gouge is more efficient at the first two and on a lot of finishing cuts is equal to the Hunter round cutters. I use the Hunter cutters to finish the inside of boxes, under cut the lip shapes on some vessels and to clean up the bottom of deep vases.


----------



## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

*Carbide rougher*

I'm thinking of giving the J&B Tools (Peeler) roughing tool a try. You can't beat the price since it's half the price of the Easy Rougher. I was told today they are working on a tool to compete with the Hunter tool which will also be half the price. That's good. Perhaps this will show the other companies they are charging too much for their products. Kudos to J&B Tools.:thumbsup:


----------



## mjbalata (Feb 8, 2009)

*J and B*

HLW:

I'm not normally a cheerleader, but you hit it square. Pricing is a factor in all our purchases This tool has worked well for me on both end and parallel grain. I talked with them before purchasing. Lots of pride in their work.

Let me know.

MJ


----------



## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

*Carbide roughing tool*

mjbalata, Just to let you know that I ordered the "Peeler" and I think I will be happy with it , as you are. The guys at J&B are very nice and accommodating. I own the Easy Rougher and I like it but I thought it was over priced ,so I thought I would give the "Peeler" a try. Thanks for the info.:thumbsup:


----------



## djwood1 (Nov 14, 2009)

Good info on the peeler, Thanks! I have been looking around for one of these type of tools to try for awhile just didn't want to pay the $$$. That price is much easier to take. 

Does anyone know what size the replacement cutter knife is for the peeler? (15 mm x15 mm x 2.5 mm or 14 mm x 14 mm x 2 mm or something else) 

Here is a site where you can order replacement knives. At the present time they have the first size mentioned above on sale for $1.99 each. The only thing is they sell them in a box of 10, which will last a long time!
http://globaltooling.bizhosting.com/products/carbide-insert-knives.html


----------



## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

djwood1, You can read my thread on new "Tuff Kid" on the block. I just bought the Peeler and I really like it and I think you will too, if you get one. The cutter is 14mm x 14mm and I just ordered a pack of ten from Global Tooling. The price is $1.25 each and sold in packs of ten. The 15mm is about $20. a pack. They took my oder by phone. Their ph.# is on the web site. Hope this helps:thumbsup:



http://globaltooling.bizhosting.com/products/carbide-insert-knives.html


----------



## smeggy (Dec 7, 2009)

I just got myself the C1 LE easy rougher... it's a damn fine tool and very, very good at whittling the wood away. It might be relatively expensive compared to the Peeler but I don't care, it's awesome.


----------



## djwood1 (Nov 14, 2009)

Thanks HLW!

With the little bit of research I have done, the 15mmx15mmx2.5mm might have more selection of replacement knives. I have found straight, radius corners, 2" radius, 4" radius and 8" radius knives. The 2" radius would be close to cutting with one of the round tools that are out there.


----------



## smeggy (Dec 7, 2009)

Well those cutter prices are certainly a lot cheaper than replacements in woodcraft.


----------



## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

HLW said:


> Smeggy, Do I understand correctly, that you are using the the easy rougher tips in the Sorby? I think it was John Lucas in his post that said it couldn't be done because of the special taper in the screw that holds the carbide tip. If that is the case,myself and Dvoigt can put the Sorby back on the Christmas list. I'm not sure why it would take a special screw to hold a carbide tip vs. a hss tip onto a handle when both are under the same amount of pressure while turning? Has the carbide cutter worked good for you? Let us know.:thumbsup:


 
I've seen replacement cutters for sale that come WITH a replacement screw. Wouldn't that slove the concern with turning the Sorby HSS tool to a carbide?


----------



## smeggy (Dec 7, 2009)

Dvoigt said:


> I've seen replacement cutters for sale that come WITH a replacement screw. Wouldn't that slove the concern with turning the Sorby HSS tool to a carbide?


The Sorby uses a different screw size to the easy rougher.


----------



## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

smeggy said:


> The Sorby uses a different screw size to the easy rougher.


Is there something special about these screws? I mean, can't you just buy whatever size you need at your local hardware store?

I'm thinking about all the differnt options and want to make sure I don't overlook anything.

Paul


----------



## smeggy (Dec 7, 2009)

Not really. Some cutters have a simple hole, others have a countersunk hole. The holes are often different sizes as are their screws so you do need to find the right type to suit. The easy rougher Ci2 uses a really small screw and there's no way its cutter can be made to fit a Sorby, peeler or the bigger rougher for example. Lots of Sorby cutters require a flat head screw, most carbides need a countersunk screw etc. The Rougher screws are also flush to the top of the cutter, having a screw head protruding *may* affect it's efficiency due to gap loading. Who knows, just saying that although it's not really difficult to swap these things around for the most part there are a couple of things to consider. 

Just common sense really.


----------

