# buying new cabnet table saw



## Allen 1961 (Jan 20, 2014)

I am looking to buy a new cabinet table saw and just wanting some ideas. I have been looking at Luguna,Grizzley, Saw Stop. Thanks in advance for your help.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Sawstop 100%...... No other saw has the safety factor built in. And on top of that....they're great saws anyhow. Even without the safety features, you'll have a top notch saw, but the safety gear puts it over the top. Consider this.....a minor accident will cost you thousands at the Emergency room.....the Sawstop features will cost you a few hundred.


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## Crusader (Jan 14, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Sawstop 100%...... No other saw has the safety factor built in. And on top of that....they're great saws anyhow. Even without the safety features, you'll have a top notch saw, but the safety gear puts it over the top. Consider this.....a minor accident will cost you thousands at the Emergency room.....the Sawstop features will cost you a few hundred.


Ryan do you have a Saw Stop and if not, why not? 
I would love to have a high dollar saw myself, but a SS wouldn't be my first pick. I would love to have a Powermatic, but can't afford that one so I have a Grizzly G0690 and for the money a great saw if you ask me. 
Safety is a great thing, but how is it that my father and myself who have run machinery for years, who follow safety protocol have never had a serious accident? It's because we use our heads and think before we act. That saw is not the end all be all.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't right now....but will hopefully soon. 

There are guys all over this board that have had tablesaw accidents. Many of them that have decades of experience and know how to "use their head".....the sawstop is no different than a seat belt...I consider myself a safe driver, and don't plan on having an accident, but that doesn't stop me from being smart and buckling up...


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## Allen 1961 (Jan 20, 2014)

Looked at the saw stop, powermatic, and laguna. The laguna mtso 0300 180 had a 4 hp motor. I like the overall finish of the laguna, the fence and controls felt tighter than the other saws. I am curious what experience other woodworkers have had .


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

A few years ago I was looking for a major piece of shop equipment. I went to AWFS and looked. Almost all of the other manufacturer's sales people warned me about customer service from Laguna. (The Laguna product wasn't that impressive either.) 

Normally in any kind of sales, you don't trash your competitions product but rather emphasize your product's attributes. 

I wound up purchasing a Grizzly from the catalog. About half the price and about the same quality as the machines at AWFS. 

I have used a couple of Laguna band saws. Both seem to be troublesome. I don't know the details of the troubles but I would come in and see a sign on the Laguna saying that it wasn't available for use. 

As for which table saw. . . .

I think that the answer is more about your personality. 
. . . YES . . .
Do you read and follow instructions? 
Can you accept instructions from other people?
Do you visualize before doing a task? 
Can you accept and follow instructions that you don't see the need for?
. . . NO . . .
Are you impulsive? 
Do you start doing a task and then in mid stream change? 
Do you think that, "I know better"?

If you honestly answered *any* of those questions incorrectly then buy the Saw Stop! You'll break even on your first missed ER visit co-pays.

If you answered those questions correctly and understand that being anal retentive about safety is a cool thing; the Grizzly would be a good saw for you.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Crusader said:


> Safety is a great thing, but how is it that my father and myself who have run machinery for years, who follow safety protocol have never had a serious accident? It's because we use our heads and think before we act.


Or said another way . . .


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I see no advantages with the Laguna over the Saw Stop PCS or ICS (or even a Grizzly for that matter). At one point in the not so distant past, Laguna offered a Platinum model that's the same as the Grizzly G0690, but costs more...the only advantage being dealer support if you buy it from a dealer. If you've got $3k+ to spend, there's no question that the Saw Stop offers the safest saw on the market, and their two top models are excellent saws in their own rite even without the safety brake. Grizzly offers a great bang for the buck if you're willing to forego the luxury of dealer support. 

FWIW, I've also read many, many complaints about Laguna's CS.....it's very disproportionate to the number of saws they sell. Grizzly and SS both have excellent reputations for good CS.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Oliver 232, 270, or the 260....and then maybe ,possibly the 88D...with the slider..........

Wadkin PPK.......

Or the Northfeild #4 , Unisaw,,,,,everything old and built like a tank,....along with the weight.....

Do you have 3ph power,,,,,:blink:


If this is going in a basement.....disregard my entire post.....



B,


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Still looking at saws Allen?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I hope he wasn't a two post wonder....


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Well, my short break is over. Time to get back to building drawer fronts for my cabinets. :icon_smile:


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## Toller (Dec 30, 2007)

knotscott said:


> FWIW, I've also read many, many complaints about Laguna's CS.....it's very disproportionate to the number of saws they sell. Grizzly and SS both have excellent reputations for good CS.


I had a Laguna drill press that was awfully noisy. CS said it was normal, but he would send me a new belt just in case that was the problem.
It took 6 months; he said he finally had to go to an automotive shop to get me one.
I am not sure if that is lousy cs or great cs, but I know wouldn't want to need a Laguna part!

Last year I bought 3 Grizzly tools that came in with 4 defective parts. They shipped replacements very quickly. I guess that is lousy quality control, but great CS.

My SS came in perfect, but I did ask a few questions that were answered quickly.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

If you guys would open your mind up......deal with 3ph, and some serious American machinery, (and some serious poundage....lol....) when they made things to last more than a lifetime....



You would be blown away.....




JMPOV,



B,


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Why? 

1. I'd rather spend my time wood working rather than rebuilding old tools.....

2. Old saws don't have riving knifes.....or guards for many of them.....and they surely don't offer saw stop technology 

3. 99% of the guys on here aren't ever going to be able to wear out a good quality modern saw in their lifetimes....

4. I don't have the space, time, or urge to deal with phase converters or 3 phase power


Why won't you open your mind and see that new modern tools fit the needs of the vast majority of people......with alot less headaches


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

I did,...

After getting turned on to OWWM.....

It was Junk,....


JMPOV,..
B,


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

So maybe you bought a crappy saw......why is it that all the guys that are quite happy with their modern saws haven't decided they were crap?


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Ryan,...

Don't take my comments so personally,,,,,,


I am an avid Owwe'r .......



You haven't tasted OWWM so you have no idea what I am talking about....



As I said,....


If you can do it,,,,with everything involved...do it!


..if you can't..then it is what it is.....


It's nothing personal....


If you look at the evolution of machinery then you may have to admit they are giving less stout machinery for some serious money.....lots of plastic ,thin walled design. Manufacturers have opted for this as a way to cut costs yet try to portray a robust piece of machinery,,,,,

Why I push OWWM,.....:blink:

Look at your rotor.........pull it out.......it's operating at 90° with a capacitor to jump start it because it's missing 30°........and it's lacking mass,,,,,,for a reason. .........single ph/3 phase.......big difference...:yes:


Single phase motors develop the rated , stamped hp.......

3ph motors are not developed in hp rating.....120° of pure synchronized power...the mass of the rotor is far superior in mass compared to a single phase motor....

Castings:.....or sheet metal in your case....they did what little they had to in order to engineer the saw,,,,,,

The trunion on my 1929 Oliver 88D is enormous ........weight- about 280lbs ...that is one aspect that I love about OWWM,......I can move that trunion with my index finger from 0- 45° ...it's absolutely incredible how well they were built,,,,engineered....

Same goes for their band saw trunions......one quick spin and your moving over 100lbs like it was 10lbs


Just an absolute pleasure to work with........


I was in your shoes,,,,been there , done that,,,,,I thought I had a great saw......but it always had things about it I hated......mostly the "cheapness" of it...........

And I only realized that by a fellow ww'er that took me to his shop.....


That was the day I realized what a machine "should" be....and I admit that.....I'm to old for pissing wars and I realize OWWM is not for everyone,,,,,,however.......


Until you actually..."physically" go and see/try OWWM....I could try, but can't ,to this day ,...ever find the words to explain my feelings about them.........



Taste my food my friend,.....,...I have tasted yours...........



Jmpov,


B,


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I have a 1959 Dewalt Radial Arm saw.......a 1950's delta band saw that probably won't get fixed up for a long long while.....and I just sold a JD Wallace mortiser that I think was from the 40's......I've been around old machinery for years...I've had the opportunity to use early 1900's saws planners and jointers......and they're fine. 

But honestly.....aside from my radial arm saw.....I prefer my modern tools. They're just as accurate, they work well, they have better dust collection, better amenities (depth stops, fences, ect), and the ergonomics are often better (switch location.....hand wheel location and design, ect).


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Hey,...

:thumbsup:


You say tomatoe.....I say tomato......:laughing:


It's all good....:thumbsup:


I just can't help myself Ryan....


Forgive me....


B:thumbsup:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I just don't want guys that don't know better to think modern tools are junk. For those that like them...all the more power to ya...


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Yea,...

I'm sorry.....

That is some strong verbiage I used.....







My apologies Ryan...


B,


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## Allen 1961 (Jan 20, 2014)

Sorry for the delayed response. After more research and reviews, has anyone had experience with the Grizzley model G0651 or the G0691.
Thanks everyone for your opnion and advice.


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## mabisme (Apr 22, 2014)

*Grizzly*

Just ordered my G0690 yesterday, will let you know how it goes when I get it and set it up. I have been reading they can be a bear to get set up but are great after that.

Anyone have any suggestions on good blades? Freud?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

mabisme said:


> Just ordered my G0690 yesterday, will let you know how it goes when I get it and set it up. I have been reading they can be a bear to get set up but are great after that.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on good blades? Freud?


Congrats on the new saw. I don't think you'll have a particularly hard time setting that saw up. 

The specific blade type that you pick is easily as important as the brand, if not more so. Freud is a good brand, as is Forrest, Infinity, CMT, Tenryu, Ridge Carbide, Guhdo, and many others. I'd first decide if you want to buy just one blade that will do a good job of many things, or multiple task specific blades that will be excellent at one thing. *This might* help you narrow down your choices, then decide which brand.

If you're looking for a bonafide bargain in a general purpose blade, this US made 40T ATB full kerf Delta Industrial 35-7657 blade is clearance priced at < $30 shipped, and will rival some of the most reputable blades you can buy.


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## mabisme (Apr 22, 2014)

*G0690*

Thanks Scott.
I am currently using a Freud crosscut and a Freud rip on a older Ridged contractors saw


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

Congrats, you should be very happy with that saw. I almost bought that same saw last year.


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

Congrats!


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## mabisme (Apr 22, 2014)

Just got my G0690 Friday. Wasn't too bad to set up. Hardest part was getting it on the mobile base! 500lbs is hard to dead lift even with help (my wife). Not sure why it only has a 6ft cord, but I got a piece of 12ft 12-2 to fix that. Runs nice and smooth. Now I just need to find decent full kerf blades. My current are thin kerf. Any suggestions about any little quirks with this saw much appreciated. Guess you can tell I am a bit excited:yes:.


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## onesojourner (Sep 13, 2013)

I have a 691 and I could not be happier. It is true, the cord is to short. with the 691 it wont even reach the wall. I really love having a riving knife. If I was not concerned about that there is no way I would fork out that kind of money for a saw when there are US made gems out there for under $500. If I could afford it I would love to have an old oliver with a riving knife. I would never give sawstop a dime. The owner of that company is a scumbag in my opinion. To try to force us all to buy his product through legislation is as sleazy as it get's. As far as the other imports go, why pay double the price for something like a powermatic? It definitely is not twice the saw. They are all made in Asia, many at the same factories.


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## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

I use Freud blades, since that is the brand Klingspor in Hickory carries. I have had good service from the Freud blades. Klingspor too. :thumbsup:




mabisme said:


> Anyone have any suggestions on good blades? Freud?


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## hext10 (Dec 10, 2013)

Another vote for saw stop. I have the 3hp and its as good as any but has the safety. Ive tripped mine twice hitting a nail and staple. 75 bucks a pop. But if that were my finger thank god i have it. Its lightning fast.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I just buy Amana brand blades. Kinda like fishing poles, I only buy one brand reguardless of the cost. Less thinking,less looking:smile:...


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## Jaredbc (Jun 1, 2012)

Has anyone used the Sawstop 1 3/4 hp? How would it do on 6/4 walnut? Im done with my crappy dewalt contractor saw that I have had since I was 18 and Im looking for something that gives me more saftey and accuracy.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Your going to open up a firestorm here....but here's my opinion. 

While I don't have a sawstop now, I fully intend to buy one soon and am in full support of the brand. I've researched them a lot, and have yet to find a real reason not to buy one. 

That said....I do have a 1.75 hp saw, and it's going to struggle a bit with 6/4 hard maple. A good sharp thin kerf blade will help, but it's not going to be fast cutting.


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## drbob1 (Feb 5, 2009)

If you have not yet decided on a Saw Stop I think this article will sway you in that direction. http://woodworkingtipsandtools.com/bought-sawstop-table-saw/


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

Another vote for Sawstop. Mine is the 3hp, 36". Does everything I ask of it with ease. Besides, it's purty.


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## IowaDave (May 21, 2015)

hext10 said:


> Another vote for saw stop. I have the 3hp and its as good as any but has the safety. *Ive tripped mine twice hitting a nail and staple. 75 bucks a pop*. But if that were my finger thank god i have it. Its lightning fast.


I am very interested in this subject...as I am planning on upgrading my table saw very soon from a well used contractor's grade Delta saw to one of the better cabinet saws. (I am considering Delta, Saw Stop and Powermatic at this point.)

I knew the Saw Stop blade would crash if it contacted flesh...but does it also do that when it hits a brad/nail embedded in the wood? I have never contacted the blade with my hands/fingers, so I don't anticipate having that happen with a new saw either. But if it I did, the Saw Stop feature would of course be welcome.

BUT...since I somewhat often use reclaimed wood, I certainly have nipped a brad here and there over the years. I would not want to deal with a "blade crash" each time that happens. Does the Saw Stop crash on contact with metal too? Or only flesh?


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

Metal, too. My Garrett Super Scanner sees use before I run any suspect material.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Allen 1961 said:


> I am looking to buy a new cabinet table saw and just wanting some ideas. I have been looking at Luguna,Grizzley, Saw Stop. Thanks in advance for your help.



Allen
The tool market has really taken a turn for the worse. Price dictates the product quality so much that it's just no longer reasonable to buy new machines. But your in luck because the woodworking community is shrinking and some are selling out. That's where you can get a really quality tool for the price of a "new" tool or less.

There are in my life time (I am old) been three phases of tool production in general. Big bad a$$ heavy weights that can be restored no mater what their condition and run forever. Then there was a time when they were less in weight but still carried a quality motor, bearings, and a stout cabinet and top. Now it's pressed metal and plastic. Motors that don't really have the hp they say they do. Castings that are very thin and other cast parts that have been shaved down to half the size they used to be. And that's just to help with shipping cost from the Far East. The fit and finish is rough and the proper metal alloys are starved in the amounts needed for a quality casting. Their big on do dads but short on performance. They work but heavens don't bump them or move them to a different location or your in for a tune up. No or less power is dangerous. Shoot some companies even tried to make them out of granite.

I have a table saw that is worth almost the same as what I paid for it 30 years ago. It was setup and adjusted once in its life. I have never had to repair it except the tape measure. It has the needed power to do any task I throw at it. It was born of the middle area I was talking about. If I needed another one I would find one used from the same time period. 

Delta Unisaw or Powermatic made at least 20 years ago would be the best value you can find and you will never want for any more. Neither of these companies build them like they did just a few years ago.

Al B Thayer


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

IowaDave said:


> I have never contacted the blade with my hands/fingers, so I don't anticipate having that happen with a new saw either. But if it I did, the Saw Stop feature would of course be welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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