# Old Band Saw trips breaker



## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)

My dad gave me his old band saw. It's a craftsman from the mid 60's. Worked fine at his place. I loaded it in the truck and brought it home. Plugged it up, flipped the switch and it ran for a split second and the breaker kicked. Does it every time. 

I then tried replacing the switch, but it still does it. Any ideas? Should I even continue trying to fix it? Thanks!


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

What else is on the circuit? The extra load may be causing the circuit to trip.
Try plugging it into a circuit without a load


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If the saw worked fine at your dad's place then the problem is more than likely with your wiring and not the saw. Add up everything you have on that breaker. The total really shouldn't be more than 80% of what the breaker is rated at. When a machine starts up it uses more amperage than what is listed on the motor so you need to be below the limit. If the total is less than the 80% your breaker may be worn out. They do get weak over time and will trip at a lower amperage than what it is rated for.


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## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)

Well I gave it another try when I got home. I plugged it into a different outlet on a different circuit and the same thing happened. This time it didn't even turn on. I flipped the switch and i heard the GFCI pop in the kitchen. Very odd. Appreciate the replies! Any other ideas?


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

Troubleshooting like this over the net is impossible but here is a few things I would do:
Check the wiring to see if any of it was damaged during the move.
Check that everything turns freely, and nothing was damaged during the move that is causing it to bind up.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

bcurrey said:


> My dad gave me his old band saw. It's a craftsman from the mid 60's. Worked fine at his place. I loaded it in the truck and brought it home. Plugged it up, flipped the switch and it ran for a split second and the breaker kicked. Does it every time.
> 
> I then tried replacing the switch, but it still does it. Any ideas? Should I even continue trying to fix it? Thanks!


post a picture of the info on the motor and the saw info plaque. That would go a long way in trying to troubleshoot this. Does your house have 20A circuits or 15A. Need more info from your situation...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Check the plug wiring*



bcurrey said:


> Well I gave it another try when I got home. I plugged it into a different outlet on a different circuit and the same thing happened. This time it didn't even turn on. I flipped the switch and i heard the GFCI pop in the kitchen. Very odd. Appreciate the replies! Any other ideas?


If the plug is an older type with individual screws for each wire, they can come loose and touch each other inside the plug. That is one possibility.
Another is the wires that go to the switch have come loose inside and are touching the cabinet or each other.
Another is the switch is shorted out internally and needs to be replaced.
Finally, the wheels or motor may be jammed, but since it trips when you just plug in it, rather turn it "on" then that is not likely.
Spin the wheels and motor to find out if there is a jam regardless.
Sometimes a sliver of wood gets into the blade guide and jams the blade causing the wheels to lock up.

Most home outlets are 15 AMP which should power your saw if it's less than 1 HP and nothing else is powered on that circuit. Don't use an extension cord unless it's heavy duty rated at 15 AMPs or greater. 

Let us know what you find out. :yes:


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

My kids would tell me I owed them a new band saw😄


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bcurrey said:


> Well I gave it another try when I got home. I plugged it into a different outlet on a different circuit and the same thing happened. This time it didn't even turn on. I flipped the switch and i heard the GFCI pop in the kitchen. Very odd. Appreciate the replies! Any other ideas?


I think you answered your own question. A GFCI is suppose to trip from a surge of power and often will trip from the surge of power a machine uses at start up. Try plugging the saw into an outlet that isn't GFCI protected.


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## epimetheus (Jul 28, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> I think you answered your own question. A GFCI is suppose to trip from a surge of power and often will trip from the surge of power a machine uses at start up. Try plugging the saw into an outlet that isn't GFCI protected.


Not quite. A GFCI looks for a difference in current between the hot wire and the neutral wire. This indicates that there is current leaking from the circuit. GFCI receptacles do not provide overcurrent protection.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*if ....*



Steve Neul said:


> I think you answered your own question. A GFCI is suppose to trip from a surge of power and often will trip from the surge of power a machine uses at start up. Try plugging the saw into an outlet that isn't GFCI protected.





epimetheus said:


> Not quite. A GFCI looks for a difference in current between the hot wire and the neutral wire. This indicates that there is current leaking from the circuit. GFCI receptacles do not provide overcurrent protection.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


If there is a short to ground, like a supply wire is in contact with the switch housing or cabinet, the GFCI will trip *before* the breaker will.


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## dhh57 (Feb 17, 2014)

epimetheus said:


> Not quite. A GFCI looks for a difference in current between the hot wire and the neutral wire. This indicates that there is current leaking from the circuit. GFCI receptacles do not provide overcurrent protection.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I agree with your assesment on how the GFCI works but it can still trip from the start up of a motor, especially an old motor.


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## epimetheus (Jul 28, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> If there is a short to ground, like a supply wire is in contact with the switch housing or cabinet, the GFCI will trip *before* the breaker will.






dhh57 said:


> I agree with your assesment on how the GFCI works but it can still trip from the start up of a motor, especially an old motor.


Good points guys. My apologies if I was a little pedantic. There are too many electrical myths out there. I like to expel those myths whenever possible.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

epimetheus said:


> Good points guys. My apologies if I was a little pedantic. There are too many electrical myths out there. I like to expel those myths whenever possible.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk


All I know is when I work in a customers house that has a GFCI I have constant trouble with it tripping.


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## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)

Did some more tests today. 

1) plugged it into GFCI outlet in garage. Turned it on and it ran a split second and kicked the breaker. 
2) put it on a different GFCI on a different circuit and same thing happened. 
3) put it on a non-gfci and as soon as I plugged it in it popped the gfci on that circuit
4) got my dads other same that is almost exactly the same and tried it and it worked fine. I think ill stick with this one.

So now I have two bandsaws plus a few other saws. I think my dad tricked me. Said he was thinking of getting rid of his saws to clean out his garage. He knew I wouldn't let him sell them so I told them. Now he has a wide open garage and a key to my house to use the anytime (we live 4 miles apart). I was duped.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*2 bandsaws? No way!*

Just kiddin' I've got a few myself, and it's very convenient to keep different blades on each to allow for resawing or general cutting operation. SO .... let's find out why the first one kicks off the breakers. :yes: Did you check the wiring at all point on the cords, plug and switch? Don't give up on it just because you got the second one. :no:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you have a volt meter with the saw plugged in you might see if there is any power between the neutral and ground fault wire (bare wire).


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## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey guys, did more research today. 

1) confirmed the circuit in my garage is 20a. 
2) verified everything was able to move freely. 
3) since both band saws are almost exactly the same, I pulled the cover off the working one to make sure all the wires were correct from when I changed the switch (even though I was having the same problems prior to changing switches). Everything was fine. 
4) I remembered one thing I did right after I got the saw from my dad was to replace the light bulb on it. I got to wondering if that might somehow be the problem. I remove the light and disconnected the wires. Fired it up, same thing happened. Below are pictures of the model tag, motor tag and the plug.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing on the plug you have in your hand the hot wire (black) is wired to the ground fault plug and the ground fault wire (green) is wired where the neutral wire (white) should be. In other words the small blade on a plug on the right side of the outlet is suppose to have the black wire. The larger blade on the left is suppose to have the white wire. The one on the bottom that is round is suppose to have the green wire. Now that may not mean anything if someone has the wire at the motor wired all wrong.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*this plug couldn't be more wrong!*

Should be:

Black to Brass
White to Silver
Green to Ground 



Who knows how the motor is wired, but it should say on the wiring cover plate.

The switch is probably messed up also. 
Green to ground/chassis/cabinet
Whites are Wired together
Black is Switched or interrupted.


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## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)

Finally got a chance to get in the garage tonight. You guys are awesome. It was the plug. I switch the black and ground wires and she works perfectly!!

The only thing i don't understand is I am 90% sure my dad and I tested it before I brought it to my house. I wouldn't have brought that one home had it not worked. Neither dad or I touched the wiring on the plug. Can't figure out why he didn't have problems

Anyways, thank you very much for all the help. You guys gave a newbie to the forums quick and detailed help and was willing to keep going till we solved the problem. Really appreciate it.


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## Tman1 (Jan 14, 2013)

Your dad probably doesn't have gfci's in his garage.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bcurrey said:


> Finally got a chance to get in the garage tonight. You guys are awesome. It was the plug. I switch the black and ground wires and she works perfectly!!
> 
> The only thing i don't understand is I am 90% sure my dad and I tested it before I brought it to my house. I wouldn't have brought that one home had it not worked. Neither dad or I touched the wiring on the plug. Can't figure out why he didn't have problems
> 
> Anyways, thank you very much for all the help. You guys gave a newbie to the forums quick and detailed help and was willing to keep going till we solved the problem. Really appreciate it.


I also wondered how the saw worked at your dad's house. Switching the black and green wire still isn't correct. It reverses the polarity of the machine. It's possible you have power going to the motor all the time and the switch interrups the neutral. The black wire needs to be wired to the brass prong which would be on the right as you plug it into the outlet. The neutral (white) goes on the left. Given how the plug was wired I would retrace the entire wiring from the plug through the switch to the motor. The color of the coating on the wires at the plug doesn't matter if all the wires are switched.


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## Tman1 (Jan 14, 2013)

The saw does not care if hot and neutral are reversed as long as it can complete the circuit. But, from a safety standpoint, the switch should break the hot wire and the motor overload protector should be on the hot side of the line. To Steve's point, the white and black should be reversed and the whole machine should be checked to make sure black connects to black and white connects to white throughout the machine.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

fwiw 
1. try to get all of the strands of wire under the screw head. a 7 strand wire loses 14% of it's current carrying ability at that point. the loose ends also risk short circuiting. 
2. if you originally tripped the kitchen gfci, your garage circuit is a "feed through" on that gfci, and is bound by it's current rating. I'll bet its a 15 amp.


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## Trav (May 30, 2011)

TimPa said:


> fwiw 1. try to get all of the strands of wire under the screw head. a 7 strand wire loses 14% of it's current carrying ability at that point. the loose ends also risk short circuiting.


Here in my locale it is against code to land thhn or any stranded wire on the outlet terminals. Spade connecters must be used or you have to pigtail solid wire to the outlet from the stranded feed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I solder my stranded wire*



Ttharp said:


> Here in my locale it is against code to land thhn or any stranded wire on the outlet terminals. Spade connecters must be used or you have to pigtail solid wire to the outlet from the stranded feed.


Soldering keeps the strands contained and prevents shorts. I don't know if local codes require here, it but on the end of a *plug* a solid copper wire somehow connected would be a "mess" JMO

In a switch box on a machine, rather than an outlet, I've always used spade connecters, not only for ease of installation, they are cleaner looking and take up less space in some instances. They are also much easier to disconnect if the need arises. The newer 3 prong plugs have "push in" wire receptacles which are then tightened by screws on the sides, rather "top down" ...I like 'em! 

As suggested earlier by myself and others, I would go through all the wiring on the switch and motor to make all the color codes consistent and properly made, no taped wires, only twist on connectors or crimps. If the switch was that messes up, there's a good chance there are other issue in the system. JMO.


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