# Exterior raised panel columns



## vender (Nov 29, 2014)

Hello, I am replacing my columns on my porch. I made raised panel columns. I was wondering what kind of glue to use? Should I caulk the panel slot? I just saw on PBS they used pocket screws to hold the stiles and rails together. Should I? Pocket the rails and screw into the stiles?
I used a Freud door panel set.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I would caulk every joint after assembly I could smear the caulking on. I'd probably caulk the slot and press the panel in and wipe the squeeze out down like any other bead. 

A raised panel door needs to keep its shape so it will open and close. The column doesn't. I've never used pocket holes but I would if I were you on those. 

Al


----------



## vender (Nov 29, 2014)

I was going to just glue and clamp. You said you dont use kreg screws. Because they will be seen? or because the doors you make won't see the weather?


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

vender said:


> I was going to just glue and clamp. You said you dont use kreg screws. Because they will be seen? or because the doors you make won't see the weather?


I just dont have one. 

You want to stop all water from coming in and need to make it into "one piece". Seal everything. The paint will probably get hair cracks at all the joints. The caulk will be you line of defence.

It's going to look really great.

Al


----------



## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

I would also suggest priming the entire thing inside and out if its not already assembled. And put a double coat on the bottom and around the base where it will be touching the ground. May seem like overkill but this will aid in preventing rot.

Nice looking columns you got there.


----------



## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

what al and chamfer said. use titebond III glue


----------



## vender (Nov 29, 2014)

This is what i have. I painted all the bare wood and used solar seal on all the gaps. Now how should I join the 45 miters to form the column. Biscuits and glue? I cant use a pocket screw. Face nail after glueing? Or is TB3 and biscuits enough?
Thanks all


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

They look real nice. You might look into using some of those pin head finish screws. They have a small head driven with a square drive. Run the head below and caulk. That's what I would do.

Al


----------



## Trav (May 30, 2011)

Post pictures of them finished. I would like to see.


----------



## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Very nice looking....You didn't paint the surface you'll be gluing did you? If it were me, i'd run a thin matching kerf down each mating face and use a full length spline and glue.


----------



## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

i saw a toh episode where tommy used biscuits and adhesive/caulk. don't know of a good adhesive caulk to use tho....


----------



## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Finish screws and glue would be the easiest way IMO and hold just as good as anything else.


----------



## vender (Nov 29, 2014)

Ryan I did NOT paint the glue surface. Should have I? I figured the glue would protect the wood? So if I biscuit every 6" (would you go 4"?) and glue then use the screws as clamps will that do? I was going to make a jig to glue it up but wont the biscuits and screws keep it all aligned? I can't run a spline as some twisting in going on (not much at all) I figure the biscuits will bring it all together?
Thanks all for your help. Great forum!
and on the next ones I am going to use a "lock miter bit"?


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*without a spline ...*

They will slide around a bit when trying to clamp them for gluing. 
Tape them all along the edges on the outside with a painter's tape, then when you fold them along their edges they will stay tight together. A few brad nails will secure them while the glue sets. 
OR you can use a long strip on the inside of the miter forming a ledge for the adjoining board's surface to seat, either one on each edge or two on 2 of the boards and none on the other two.
OR you can run a kerf in the center of the miter as suggested and use a strip of 1/8" ply or Masonite to locate the miters accurately. A table saw with a full kerf blade would do nicely. I would preglue the strips on one miter on each board, and let them set, rather than trying to work the strips in all at the same time while dripping with glue. Just don't let the glue oooze out onto the strips. That may be easier said than done...I donno? It won't take much glue in the kerf to work well.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

vender said:


> Ryan I did NOT paint the glue surface. Should have I? I figured the glue would protect the wood? So if I biscuit every 6" (would you go 4"?) and glue then use the screws as clamps will that do? I was going to make a jig to glue it up but wont the biscuits and screws keep it all aligned? I can't run a spline as some twisting in going on (not much at all) I figure the biscuits will bring it all together?
> Thanks all for your help. Great forum!
> and on the next ones I am going to use a "lock miter bit"?


I think you will have a great deal of trouble gluing those with biscuits. If you use the small head screws you will remove the problems associated with gluing 4 mitered corners. Even if you use just a few. 

Lock miter? Not the easiest tool to use. Big learning curve. Might look perfect till its assembled. Difficult to determine final size after running all 8 cuts. 

Al


----------



## Trav (May 30, 2011)

Since this is a painted column I would have seriously considered butt joints with trim screws for the assembly. May have even left a small reveal on 2 sides. 

I am assuming also that you are wrapping something that is structural.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Ttharp said:


> Since this is a painted column I would have seriously considered butt joints with trim screws for the assembly. May have even left a small reveal on 2 sides.
> 
> I am assuming also that you are wrapping something that is structural.


That's the way we used to build them. With the reveal. 

Al


----------



## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

The lock miter is an excellent joint but a pain to set up right. Also if all of the pieces are not straight as an arrow and planed exactly it will be difficult to impossible to assemble, especially on long boards like your using.

I agree butt joints would have been acceptable here and easier to assemble. You could have done like Ttharp suggested or even wrapped the corners with some trim.


As for structural integrity hollow posts are fine. I see them all of the time when doing remodels on houses from the early 1900's at work.


----------



## vender (Nov 29, 2014)

Ttharp said:


> Since this is a painted column I would have seriously considered butt joints with trim screws for the assembly. May have even left a small reveal on 2 sides.
> 
> I am assuming also that you are wrapping something that is structural.


Thats a good point they are painted. Learning. Butt joints on the next. and yes they are wrapping a post. The old one are hollow from 1896 and the porch roof did sag about 2". Had to jack the roof back up.


----------



## vender (Nov 29, 2014)

*What I learned in column building*

So far this is my progress and things I learned.

Box the next columns. I did biscuits every 6" and it was a pain to get the panels together. 
Paint after assembly. I am a poor painter. I had to sand the glue surfaces.
Make sure the raised panel is flush on the back and front. I had to plane the panels down on the backs so I could have the biscuit joiner lay flat on the panel.
I am still going to lock miter the "skirts?" but not the panels.

Questions.
Should I just make one stile thinner than the other and box (butt) them around the column? Would you do a rabbet / shoulder joint?
Any suggestion?
Thanks
Mark


----------



## Trav (May 30, 2011)

I think your results are typical for someone trying to accomplish what you were trying to do the way you tried to do it. Don't beat yourself up. A little extra finish work and they will look good. 

Now the question to ask yourself now that you have done it this way. 

Would the reveals really look so bad that it's worth all the effort it takes to make a biscuited or splined miter joints? 

The answer is up to you. I think the rabbit would be a good compromise if you want to hide the side long grain of the perpendicular board. 

Always prime first but anything that I have to assemble gets painted after assembly. That way I can sand and tweak and fill all I want with ease before the paint. 

Again, don't beat yourself up. The amount of room for error on a long miter joint is pretty much nil.


----------

