# Dying and staining veneer



## cabinetbuilding (Jan 9, 2016)

I have some Walnut veneered plywood which we need to finish.
- see pictures
- (so yes, not much ability to sand down)

I'm looking to get a finish similar to the one shown in the picture.

I've seen this video on finishing walnut which recommends to:
1. Dye the wood
2. Apply Sanding Sealer
3. Quick & light gel stain
4. Final seal coat (e.g. Poly-urethane)





A few questions:

1. If we use Non-grain rasing dyes (i.e. alcohol/ spirit based solvents)
- will that mean that we won't have to sand down to remove any fuzzy grain?

2. I was told by a shopkeeper that veneer is s**t for dying/ finishing so there's no hope of achieving the depth of colour as shown in the sample picture
- (unfortunately we can't work with solid hardwood for every project so we have to work with what we've got)

2.1 So can I achieve that colour with just a veneer?

2.2 Or should I just coat it in Tung Oil & call it a day?

3. Does applying the light Gel Stain make the finish last longer?
- i.e. more UV resistant
- or better in some other way?


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

cabinetbuilding said:


> 1. If we use Non-grain rasing dyes (i.e. alcohol/ spirit based solvents)
> - will that mean that we won't have to sand down to remove any fuzzy grain?
> *Not on the color stain NGR coat, but you will after you apply the next step, which will be either a washcoat or a sealer.*
> 
> ...


I will post a pic of a walnut veneer panel I finished for a customer later on this evening and post my finishing schedule.


----------



## cabinetbuilding (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanks Randy, good (and reassuring!) to hear.



RandyReed said:


> All pigment stains will not fade out as much over time as dye stains will When used alone, but depending on the color range, that really doesnt matter either. If you use a dye stain, sealer, then wipe stain, glaze, or gel stain, you will be good to go.


So then the stain's pigment helps prevent the dye from fading somehow?

Just wondering the point of using a stain on top of a dye - if that same colour could be achieved with only a dye.
- is it for depth of colour/ contrast?


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

The dye stain gives you the back ground color while the wipe stain OR a glaze colors the grain and gives you contrast. You can get amazing clarity this way as well.

A gel stain is a thick pigmented stain that will end up leaving a muddy look if left too heavy. I never use a gel stain myself.


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Here is an example of a lighter side, medium brown walnut.

Here is the finishing schedule I came up with to match a panel for a customer:
1. Spray applied a Yellow dye stain to neutralize the purple. (Yellow kills purple)
2. Applied a 12% solids washcoat sealer coat. A washcoat is simply a reduced high build sealer. Reducing a 24% solids sealer 1:1 with lacquer thinner will give you 12% for example. If you leave the sealer as is, the wipe stain will not bite into the grain as hard. The more you reduce the sealer, the harder the wipe stain will bite the grain. VERY IMPORTANT!
3. Scuff sand with 320 grit *lightly*.
4. I reduced a Van **** Brown 1 part with 8 parts mineral spirits because I needed to make this light. Again, strength of the wipe stain you are using is important.
5. Apply a high build sealer.
6. Scuff sand 320
7. Apply a high build sealer
8. Scuff sand 280
9. Apply the sheen/gloss topcoat of your choice. DONE.

I suggest applying 2 coats of high build sealer because walnut has so much open grain. Another option is to apply a van **** filler at step 4, wipe it off, then go to the wipe stain as an example.


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Here is another pic of the walnut panel beside the small veneer panel I was asked to match.


----------



## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Alot of people say you cant make walnut a light color on a finishing line without bleaching the walnut prior to finishing it, but you can. 

I came up with a yellow toner which I added 2% pearlescent which when spray applied gives the look of bleached walnut. You then can finish the walnut immediately after and is very factory friendly. 

I tell everyone that they can match anything, all it takes is patience and scrap wood.


----------



## cabinetbuilding (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanks for the tips Randy.

The finish looks great. You've got a perfect match there.

I'll start experimenting with some Liberon spirit dyes & old masters stain.


----------

