# Need Dining Room Table Guidance



## Daddy's Cool (Jul 12, 2010)

I am wanting to build a dining room table. The more I have thought about it, the more I want to build what we want, but cannot afford to buy.

I want it to be an expansion table that 60"x60" that will expand to at least 100" in length, and possibly to 110".

We want something that is dark in color, but haven't decided whether we want to stain it to get there, or go more natural.

I have found plans that help with the basic design, and from another thread, found plans that should help with incorporating the expansion aspect.

Now for the question(s):

Should the top be joined planks, or edged plywood? I know that it will somewhat be up to personal preference as to the look, but am I going to have a lot more problems if I use the planks?

If I am wanting a deep dark color, but also want to see some grain, what wood do you recommend?
If I am wanting a deep dark color, but am not as concerned about seeing the grain, what wood?

What finish do you suggest that will give good durability? I want to be able to use and see the table, not hide it under table pads covered with a table cloth.

Any tips, ideas, or suggestions are appreciated. I hope to start on this soon, just waiting on the wife to decide what color and appearance she really wants it to be.


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## woody woodturner (Jul 9, 2010)

5050 mix of polyurethane and danish oil weve used this finish alot and it looks very nice and yery durable .I myself believe that joined boards look a lot better :thumbsup:


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## woody woodturner (Jul 9, 2010)

must be put on with a pad:no:/clean rag


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## Daddy's Cool (Jul 12, 2010)

How many coats?

I prefer the joined as well, but have no idea what I would be getting into in terms of board movement as well as any cupping or warping.


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## Daddy's Cool (Jul 12, 2010)

Okay, more questions. She doesn't want black, and doesn't want it going towards the red of cherry. But we do want it more towards the dark end of coloring. Something along the lines of this:









What wood would you suggest using to get to the goal? Oak with dark stain? Mahogany? Walnut? We want some grain to show through, but don't want it to dominate the table?

I would like to start working on this, but am not sure what wood to start with. Thanks for any tips or advice you can pass along.


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## woody woodturner (Jul 9, 2010)

about 8 coats should do it ,It will bring out the grain ,My club just did a board room table it turned out spectacular:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## woody woodturner (Jul 9, 2010)

the main prob with stain is that you loose the 3d effect of the timber.
i mean it dosnt pop out at ya .dark mahogany,walnut :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## mrbentontoyou (Aug 3, 2010)

+2 on mahogany or walnut. 

Walnut is browner and has lively figure. If you want the color but not the figure try to hand select your boards and shoot for the straightest grain or try walnut ply. 

Mahogany is redder and has quieter figure. If you like the color but want more figure go for ribbon striped african mahogany, like sapele. 

problem with a solid wood top with prominent figure is when you split it in half to install the leaves the figure doesn't match up. 

can't tell for certain but the finish in the photo you posted looks like stained wood... stain ain't for me so can't help too much there. 

as for a durable table top finish, i like waterlox. it's a tung oil/phenolic resin varnish that you can wipe on or brush on. the tung oil helps resist water and the phenolic solids dry rock hard. it's an extremely durable finish, and it really does a lot to "pop" the grain, figure and color of wood. it's a little more pricy than what's available at the hardware store but it is a top quality product. (no affiliation, just my experience) 

one last thought- and this is nothing but 100% personal opinion so take it for what it's worth-
a table that is 60x60 is taking up an absolutely HUGE footprint, and it might benefit visually from being TALLER. instead of 30" like every other dining table out there, 36" or 38" would actually give it an "airier" feeling. You would need taller bar sized chairs of course. but i have eaten at a few tall dining tables like this and it is kind of a cool effect- very casual and comfortable, especially with a square table where everyone can see each other. nothing reserved and formal about it. a table that tall is also great for entertaining because you can munch hors d'oeuvres while standing. and let's face it, that's wickedly important. 

just my two cents. 

good luck/enjoy-

Roger


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## cactusrose (Jul 25, 2010)

So what did you end up doing? Don't underestimate the hours involved to build it!


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## Daddy's Cool (Jul 12, 2010)

Haven't started yet, as I have to finish sprucing up the bathroom. Also, M-i-L has mentioned a set (tables & chairs) that we should look at, so I am not even sure how quickly it will happen. I hope to know for sure in the next couple of weeks.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Just for reference, that picture you added is a "dark mahogany" stain. It could be on mahogany or poplar or pine or oak or any other of a number of woods. Personally, I like Walnut but I don't think you'll find it will stay that dark as I think it's one of the few that lightens with age instead of darkens. I could be wrong about that though. Obviously finishing will affect the color change as well so it may be a non-issue either way.

For simplicity edge-banded ply will be easiest but if you want "showroom quality" or "heirloom" you should really go with joined boards. There are a lot of really great options for enhancing the grain though, all basically book matching in some form or another. These little details, if planned for early, can really make a piece shine. As for showing grain, use some BLO or Tung oil before finishing and it will help bring out the grain through whatever you put on it.


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## Daddy's Cool (Jul 12, 2010)

*Now need wood advice*

We went and looked at what the mother in law suggested. The tables did not meet our desire, so I am back to the building route. We did manage to find chairs that we like, so now I have something to try and match to.

From the picture below, what are any recommendations as to the best way to match up the color? 
Will it be impossible to match, and so I need to make sure that it doesn't appear like I attempted to match?
I am guessing that I am not going to find a wood that is an exact match, which means I will have to do some staining. So is it better to start with a lighter wood, and find the proper mix, or use a darker wood?









I am really excited about this now and am ready to start (got the garage cleaned up this weekend so I can have some space). I need to determine what wood to use, so I can get the legs ordered (no lathe and no experience and don't see this as the place to start).

Any advice or suggestions is greatly appreciated.


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## Daddy's Cool (Jul 12, 2010)

woody woodturner said:


> 5050 mix of polyurethane and danish oil weve used this finish alot and it looks very nice and yery durable .I myself believe that joined boards look a lot better :thumbsup:


 


mrbentontoyou said:


> as for a durable table top finish, i like waterlox. it's a tung oil/phenolic resin varnish that you can wipe on or brush on. the tung oil helps resist water and the phenolic solids dry rock hard. it's an extremely durable finish, and it really does a lot to "pop" the grain, figure and color of wood. it's a little more pricy than what's available at the hardware store but it is a top quality product. (no affiliation, just my experience)
> 
> Roger


 
You both felt that your finish is very durable. Durable to the point that we can set glasses directly on the table at dinner, and not have to worry about a water ring being left behind? Or durable to the banging of forks and spoons that 2 and 3 year old have a tendency to do? Or both?

If this thing turns out, I want to show it off. I don't want to hide it under a table pad every time that I use it (2-3 times a day).


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## mrbentontoyou (Aug 3, 2010)

Daddy's Cool said:


> You both felt that your finish is very durable. Durable to the point that we can set glasses directly on the table at dinner, and not have to worry about a water ring being left behind? Or durable to the banging of forks and spoons that 2 and 3 year old have a tendency to do? Or both?
> 
> If this thing turns out, I want to show it off. I don't want to hide it under a table pad every time that I use it (2-3 times a day).




Waterlox is a very high quality product. you will not be disappointed. 

the phenolic resins in waterlox cure to a very hard state. 
like toss your keys on the table without even thinking twice hard. 

another plus is that you can do spot touch ups wherever needed without having to strip the old finish off. it just melts into itself. when poly goes bad, which we have probably all seen in the form of cracked and peeling finish on restaurant tables, it needs to be stripped and reapplied. 

"Danish oil" is a name that a few companies use for different products. the most popular brand is watco, which around here you can find at any hardware store. if you look up the msds on it you will see that it consists of around 85% mineral spirits. that leaves only 15% by volume for the oils, resins, driers, and all the other stuff they put in that product. imho, very little bang for the buck. 

another company named 'tried and true' makes a product called "danish oil" and the makeup is totally different, looks to be pretty good quality. 

you might also look into a product called "behlens rock hard table top varnish". uses phenolic resin like the waterlox but is a boiled linseed oil base as opposed to tung oil. personally i like the added moisture resistance of tung oil better, and i find the behlens product takes more care to apply. plus you have to use their special thinner to reduce it. but i have talked to people who vehemently swear by it and i've read nothing but glowing reviews. and i know from use that behlens makes high quality products. 

sorry for being so long winded here, hope this helps. have a blast and good luck. looking forward to pics of the finished product.

-Roger


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## mrbentontoyou (Aug 3, 2010)

*chairs*

oh and as for matching those chairs,

if you do opt to stain a lighter wood, watch out for maple. in my experience it takes stain very poorly and is incredibly blotchy.:wallbash: i've tried pre stain conditioners with maple too and they work okay for smaller parts like legs and such but on an open expanse like a table top i have found it damn near impossible to keep the shading and depth of color consistent. :furious:

course, i'm far from an expert. :no:

i would go with walnut. if you want to lighten it up a little bit pull the boards out into the sun for a few hours a day for a week or two.

-Roger


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## Epatricknlw (Aug 26, 2010)

Have you thought about heat treating your wood. its away to get a richer darker color out of a piece of wood and still keep the beauty and nature of the piece. then no stain is needed. only a clear finish.


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## Epatricknlw (Aug 26, 2010)

"There is ongoing research as to whether heat treatments can be used to make timber more durable. By heating timber to a certain temperature, it may be possible to make the wood-fibre less appetising to insects. Although unlikely to be as effective as chemical preservatives, anecdotal evidence suggests some consumers would prefer chemical-free timber preservation methods.
Heat treatment can also improve the properties of the wood with respect to water: lower equilibrium moisture, less moisture deformation, and weather resistance. It is weather-resistant enough to be used, unprotected, in facades or in kitchen tables, where wetting is expected.
There are 3 similar European heat treatments: Retiwood, developed in France, Thermowood, developed in Finland by VTT, and Platowood developed in The Netherlands. These processes autoclave the treated wood, subjecting it to pressure and heat, along with nitrogen or water vapour to control drying in a staged treatment process ranging from 24 to 48 hours at temperatures of 180 to 230 °C depending on timber species. These processes increase the durability, dimensional stability and hardness of the treated wood by at least one class; however, the treated wood is darkened in colour, and there are changes in certain mechanical characteristics: specifically, the modulus of elasticity is increased to 10%[_citation needed_] , and the modulus of rupture is diminished by 5% to 20%[_citation needed_] ; thus, the treated wood requires drilling for nailing to avoid splitting the wood. Certain of these processes cause less of an impact than others in their the mechanical effects upon the treated wood. Wood treated with this process is often used for cladding or siding, flooring, furniture and windows." --Wikiapedia
I use Heat treated wood scrapes from a pallet yard to make some furniture pieces and they finish like glass.


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## gary peterson (Mar 6, 2009)

if you were to match the chair, you need to yelllow dye(how deep or light??) the wood as an undertone, then stain. samples samples samples will lead the way . when all is dry and your satisfied then apply a finish to the sample, this may or may not change the color/appearance. good luck.


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## woody woodturner (Jul 9, 2010)

Daddy's Cool said:


> How many coats?
> 
> I prefer the joined as well, but have no idea what I would be getting into in terms of board movement as well as any cupping or warping.


5or 6 coats but 8-9 is better light sand between coats 600to 800grit:thumbsup:


what you do on the top you do all over once the boards are sealed theres not a lot of movement


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

mrbentontoyou said:


> Waterlox is a very high quality product. you will not be disappointed.
> 
> the phenolic resins in waterlox cure to a very hard state.
> like toss your keys on the table without even thinking twice hard.
> ...


 Today is starting good. I'm learning things. Where can one procure Waterlox? Does this finish yellow in time like polys? Are there limits to stains that can be put under? Is the finish able to be wiped or brushed or is spraying optimal? 

Sorry about the 3rd degree....just interested. I too have a diningroom table in the design stages.


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## Daddy's Cool (Jul 12, 2010)

I don't know of all of the places, but I do know that Woodcraft carries Waterlox. You can actually go to the website for waterlox and find a carrier in your area, or in the big city that you are willing to drive to.


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