# Biscuit joiner



## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

Is a biscuit joiner one of the tools that a person should buy top of the line or does a mid price one work fine for the average woodworker? The price range seems to be $39.00-$500?? what do ya recomend? Gary Itchy


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## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

I have the DeWalt biscuit jointer, at the time I bought it, it was rated as one of the best. It's been a good machine for me.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

De Walt or PC 557 unless you are running it 8 hrs a day Lamello is severe overkill.


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

I bought a cheep-o Brand CMT for about $25.00. The base is all plastic. I didn't want to spend a lot of money until I knew if it was worth having one. Well I have used it quite a bit and it is holding up well. However if I had the money to get one in a nice carrying case I would upgrade.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

I've had the porter cable since they first came out and have no complaints. One of the only features I think you should look for is an easily adjustable fence, both for height and also angle. Other than that they really aren't a high tech tool. I also have the little Ryobi mini biscuit jointer. It's a little one hand operation with the largest size biscuit only being 5/8" long. Good for teeny stuff.
Mike Hawkins


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

A biscuit cutter is one of the few tools that I really don't think you need. I had a DW682K for 6 years and used it less and less, then sold it. For starters, very few joints require biscuits. Secondly, for those that do, you can buy a router bit for $20 and cut slots with the router. A basic $20 pocket hole jig is much more useful IMHO. :thumbsup:


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

My Ryobi JM82K came with a nice carry case, and enough biscuits to be addictive. Biscuit Joints are great where the strength of M&T isn't required, such as face frames, and mitered corners in picture frames and raised panel doors... The plunge action is smooth, and alignment has been perfect every time... I don't recall which magazine it was, but one of the big WW mags did a a comparison between between biscuit joiners, and the Ryobi and it's Craftsman sibling scored just under the Lemello.


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

*biscuit joiner*



knotscott said:


> A biscuit cutter is one of the few tools that I really don't think you need. I had a DW682K for 6 years and used it less and less, then sold it. For starters, very few joints require biscuits. Secondly, for those that do, you can buy a router bit for $20 and cut slots with the router. A basic $20 pocket hole jig is much more useful IMHO. :thumbsup:


I have to agree here.I have one that I bought when I did furniture work and it was more of a pain than a helper.The biggest myth in my opinion is that biscuits give you a stronger joint,all they do is help you line up the piece a little better,but by the time you measure,then cut the slots,you can have the boards glued up.Get you a GOOD set of bar clamps(not pipe clamps)and you won't need this tool,as all you have to do is make sure your edges are square,then lay them on the clamps(after glueing the edges real good)then snug up the clamps tap the boards even,then tighted and they will hold great.
Ken


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

Craftsman... $80. Unless you're running a production, it's not worth extra cash. My Craftsman is smooth as silk... my buddies even like Harbor Freight (around $40?). 
I've heard a lot of complaints about Craftsman stuff. But I've never had a problem. Has always run good for me.


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

> The biggest myth in my opinion is that biscuits give you a stronger joint


This is new to me. I was getting ready to buy one
for some parts for the boat. 

I need to edge glue and then plane some full one
inch oak. I have a lot of 1"X6" stock but I need
several 1"X12" pieces, they are only about a foot
long but will be load bearing on the end grain.

This is what they look like and I planned to put
the biscuits a quarter inch from the edge on
each side. The cut out at the bottom is for a
frame member under the seat.

Would I be just as well off to save my money and
just glue them and put a cleat across them for added
strength? 

Forgive the picture, I didn't spend much time on
it..:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

clarionflyer said:


> Craftsman... $80. Unless you're running a production, it's not worth extra cash. My Craftsman is smooth as silk... my buddies even like Harbor Freight (around $40?).
> I've heard a lot of complaints about Craftsman stuff. But I've never had a problem. Has always run good for me.


Ditto. Craftsman is usually my first choice unless I just want something cheap for very limited use.

G


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Bohfm, it is new to me also. A biscuit WILL add strength, it is just obviously not as strong as mortise and tenon. Whether or not that extra strength is needed can be debated.

I find using biscuits is much faster than other techniques that can be used to assist in joining and alignment. It takes no time to cut the slot and insert a biscuit.

G


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

BH,
I would probably only put one row of biscuits in your one inch oak. When you start getting a little close to the edge, sometimes the swelling of the biscuits will raise a slight bumb in the surface of the wood. 
Mike Hawkins


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

*Biscuit joiners*

Sorry George,but it has been provin that they are not any stronger than a good clean butt joint,but yes they do in some cases make allignment a little easier.To bad we don't live next door,as we could have a little challenge here .Glue up two boards with and two without and see which one breaks easier.I'v never had a glue failure without biscuits in over 30 yrs,but have has headaches with them.Thats why I stopped using them.I am not trying to be disrespectfull to your opinion,just telling of mine and others personal experiance. :yes:
Ken


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

The woodsman said:


> Sorry George,but it has been provin that they are not any stronger than a good clean butt joint,but yes they do in some cases make allignment a little easier.To bad we don't live next door,as we could have a little challenge here .Glue up two boards with and two without and see which one breaks easier.I'v never had a glue failure without biscuits in over 30 yrs,but have has headaches with them.Thats why I stopped using them.I am not trying to be disrespectfull to your opinion,just telling of mine and others personal experiance. :yes:
> Ken



That is news to me. I am wondering, since the WW mags seem to love them so much, do you possibly have a link to a good write up on the subject, or are we talking personal experience here (which is perfectly legit as well...) Not trying to be a pain, just digging for more info. What you are saying is contrary to what I have heard for at least 10 years...


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## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

The woodsman said:


> It has been provin that they are not any stronger than a good clean butt joint


 How can that be ? Makes no sense to me.


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## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

Yikes!Seems like I raised a bone of contention here as to wheather a biscuit makes the joint stronger or not?Wadya say Mike?


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## red (Sep 30, 2008)

I would purchase the DeWalt biscuit joiner and you will be very happy to own it. It is very easy to use and adjust. Red


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## mmtools (Aug 21, 2008)

Used to have a PC 555. Replaced it with a PC 557 for the face frame biscuit capacity. Works well, as long as you are VERY careful to keep adjacent bords aligned when gluing up. the loose fit before glue sets can be a problem if you aren't aware. Any time I have used biscuits, they never have failed:yes:


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Itchy Brother said:


> Yikes!Seems like I raised a bone of contention here as to wheather a biscuit makes the joint stronger or not?Wadya say Mike?


No harm Itchy! ...a good discussion is healthy! :boxing: 

To clarify my view, a tight fitting edge joint is sufficiently strong when properly glued and clamped with good glue and doesn't typically need reinforcement from biscuits. Under severe stress, the wood near a joint is more likely to break than the glue joint itself. While I've never had a biscuit joint fail on a good edge joint, I've also never had a proper glued edge joint fail either. Biscuits are a poor substitute for tight fitting joints to start with. 

With end grain joinery, T&G and dowels have been proven to be stronger than biscuits, which is why I contend that a biscuit cutter is an unnecessary tool, which is not saying biscuits have no use.


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## thekctermite (Dec 23, 2007)

My first biscuit jointer was a DeWalt. I used if for a while and returned it because it had a very noticeable amount of "slop" in it's mechanism, which made getting perfectly cut holes a challenge. The holes' width would end up wider than the blade, so the biscuits would be very loose.

Bought a Porter Cable and am very satisfied with it.


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## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

knotscott said:


> I contend that a biscuit cutter is an unnecessary tool, which is not saying biscuits have no use.


 What ? I have a Dowl-it doweling jig, I it use occassionally when there is no other way or another reason, since I bought the biscuit jointer I use the doweling jig even less. But back to the original question, everyone has their own way of doing things for various reasons. What you spend on a biscuit jointer I think depends on how much *YOU* see yourself useing it, or what your budget is. Personally I think this is a decision that only you can make. Read the reviews and decide what works best for you.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

Knot; Biscuits are very important items! How do you get all that extra gravy off da plate without em??????? :laughing::shifty:
That said I find their best use is alignment, they do help alot in glueups keeping surfaces level enuf where it may only take a minimum tweak here or there to get flush. Especially if the boards have a slight bow to them, you can pull them flat with biscuits and NOT have to fight em with just clamps.
Having both the DW and the 557 I find the 557 is a better tool.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

The woodsman said:


> Sorry George,but it has been provin that they are not any stronger than a good clean butt joint,but yes they do in some cases make allignment a little easier.To bad we don't live next door,as we could have a little challenge here .Glue up two boards with and two without and see which one breaks easier.I'v never had a glue failure without biscuits in over 30 yrs,but have has headaches with them.Thats why I stopped using them.I am not trying to be disrespectfull to your opinion,just telling of mine and others personal experiance. :yes:
> Ken


" Sorry George,but it has been provin that they are not any stronger "

The word PROVEN is rather strong. Please provide a reference to back up this claim.

George


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I have a DW, and could live without it. I would rather use a spline in my choice of specie in a 1/4" slot. IMO, that works out to be better than a biscuit.


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

*Biscuit joiners*



GeorgeC said:


> " Sorry George,but it has been provin that they are not any stronger "
> 
> The word PROVEN is rather strong. Please provide a reference to back up this claim.
> 
> George


I come here to learn and possably offer advice when possable,not to debate!READ my post you quoted and then try what I suggested.We may dissagree with others advice,But I do try a do it in a respectable way.I could give you a list of true pro's,Norm Abrams for one,but it wouldn't change you mind,so if you care to take the test as I suggested,thats OK,if not thats ok also


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

The woodsman said:


> I come here to learn and possably offer advice when possable,not to debate!READ my post you quoted and then try what I suggested.We may dissagree with others advice,But I do try a do it in a respectable way.I could give you a list of true pro's,Norm Abrams for one,but it wouldn't change you mind,so if you care to take the test as I suggested,thats OK,if not thats ok also


I am sorry woodsman if you were offended by my post.

I thought that I asked rather nicely for you to provide backup for your statement that what you had said had been PROVEN. Please tell me just what it was that offended you?

G


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## musky_xl (Nov 30, 2008)

knotscott said:


> With end grain joinery, T&G and dowels have been proven to be stronger than biscuits, which is why I contend that a biscuit cutter is an unnecessary tool, which is not saying biscuits have no use.


 
I agree...this is why I would like to see and hear from people whom have had the shot at the new jointer from Freud (I believe) that is a two dowel cutter.

Anyone?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

musky_xl said:


> I agree...this is why I would like to see and hear from people whom have had the shot at the new jointer from Freud (I believe) that is a two dowel cutter.
> 
> Anyone?


I do not think anybody would disagree that tongue and groove or dowels are stronger than biscuits.

The FDW710K Doweling Joiner looks like an interesting tool. However, at $330 (Rockler and Amazon) it is a bit more than I would want to pay for that capability.

George


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## KevinK (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi

Another thing to consider when buying any tool is how it fits in your hand. I like the PC because it fits comfortably in my hand and the design allows you to hold it tight on the surface of your wood, giving you much better control. 

It is said that it provides no extra strength, but it does help with alignment. If you are looking for strength you may want to check out FESTOOL's Domino, it makes a mortise slot rather than a biscuit slot, and uses loose tenons rather than biscuits. Of course it is expensive like most of FESTOOL products but I think they are very well made, and I don't think you would be disappointed. If I didn't have a biscuit jointer I would seriously consider this tool. The other option is to get a slot bit for your router and use it as a biscuit jointer, however it is limited to edge jointing and you require your router to be in a table.

Good Luck
Kevin


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

"Another thing to consider when buying any tool is how it fits in your hand. I like the PC because it fits comfortably in my hand and the design allows you to hold it tight on the surface of your wood, giving you much better control."

This aspect is very important because if it is not comfortable to use you will not use it. Or if you do you use the tool you may not use it accurately.

What is a "PC?"

G


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

GeorgeC said:


> "
> 
> What is a "PC?"
> 
> G




For tool talking, it means "*P*orter *C*able". Outside of that it could mean "Pregnant Cow".


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

GeorgeC said:


> "What is a "PC?"
> 
> G


In tool parlance...
*P*orter *C*able

Otherwise...
*P*olitically *C*orrect
*P*ersonal *C*omputer
*P*regnant *C*ow

Take your pick...


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## losttool (Dec 6, 2008)

I am using my router table until I decide if I will be using a biscuit jointer enough to justify it. I wouldn't pass one up at a yard sale.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

dbhost said:


> In tool parlance...
> *P*orter *C*able
> 
> Otherwise...
> ...


Thanks.

I like the pregnant cow.

G


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## Burnt_Blade (Dec 26, 2009)

I have the Ryobi JM82 and the one thing I find annoying is the amount of time it takes me to fine tune the fence to get the slot exactly in the middle of the one piece (an edge piece of usually 5/8 particle board). When I hear of how fast these things are to set up...I dunno.

That said, once I finally have it dialled in..yes it does make putting the pcs together easier (mostly for alignment rather than for any strength considerations).

If could afford a dowelmax, would get that in a heartbeat, for it looks like one sweet little unit.


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

re biscuit joiner...the slot need not be in the center exactly...just make sure to orient the pieces (I mark them) so that the same faces you had up during the slotting are facing the same way when glueing.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

By the time Black and Decker gets done with them, Porter Cable might as well be a Pregnant Cow. It should be illegal what they have done to a once great brand. 

I own a PC 557, the Freud Doweling Joiner, and the Festool Domino. Each has their place, and I use all of them on a regular basis. 

For flat panel glue-ups, a biscuit joiner is hard to beat. It will add strength of this type of joint. They will not make up for improperly jointed boards, but they will add strength. Biscuits are also invaluable in cabinet building, especially when applying the face-frame to a cabinet. I had the DeWalt, and it was pretty disappointing. There was a considerable amount of slop, and the dust collection was horrid. The PC557 is a much better machine, at about the same price. 

I use the Domino for face-frames, furniture, ect. While the factory Domino's are great for most applications, I do cut my own for furniture applications. The factory options are just a little too undersized for my liking. The Domino is by far the best designed and accurate of the three. Dust collections is essentially 100%. It is on par with the Lamello plate joiners.

The Freud Doweling Joiner is probably the least used. It comes in handy for certain furniture applications, but most could easily be addressed with the Domino. It is handy for drilling shelf pins, but you have to check the spacing often. It as not an incredibly well built machine. It would be lot more useful if is was a little better built. 

The joint test that Woodsman references are very specific in the types of joints they test, and completely irrelevant to the type of joints at which the biscuit excels. They were using a biscuit to reinforce a rail and stile connection in a face-frame. I will also note that my beloved Domino did not fair well in that test. 

As with everything in life, there are trade-offs. Do you need any of the three to create a great final product? No way. Do these machines increase productivity? Absolutely. 

Keep in mind that there is almost nothing that we do with wood today that hasn't been done in the past. With the proper skills, you can do anything you need to with a couple as hand-saws, a set of chisels, and a selection of hand-planes.


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## Burnt_Blade (Dec 26, 2009)

mics_54 said:


> re biscuit joiner...the slot need not be in the center exactly...just make sure to orient the pieces (I mark them) so that the same faces you had up during the slotting are facing the same way when glueing.


I guess so, but with 5/8" of particle, I didn't want to take the chance on the biscuit swelliing and bulging out the side of the PB or splitting etc. If it was solid wood, then yes I imagine I would not have to to spend so much time. Seems that so far alot of my projects have either been PB/MDF/ply so far. Still making projects to store/organize all my 'stuff'...lol.


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## DerekG (Dec 28, 2009)

I bought the dewalt and was a little disappointed by it, the blade was a bit out of square to the base/fence (one end of the biscuit slot was 1/32 higher than the other) so I returned it and picked up a pc 557. I love the pc but dewalts get good reviews so it may have just been one bad apple?


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## Texas Sawduster (Apr 27, 2009)

*Wow !!!*

I don't even know if I want to use mine at all now.
May stick with the Kreg or CMT pocket hole jigs.

Unless I am working on a table or furniture top.


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## mike65072 (Apr 13, 2008)

Lowes just dropped the price on the Dewalt joiner to $149. Pretty good price for a very nice tool....if you're into biscuits that is...:smile:


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## iamwelty2 (Oct 18, 2009)

Well, I was needing a biscuit Jointer several years ago... had a project that needed a few biscuits to complete. I bought the cheapest one I could find since I only needed it for a few biscuits. Got the Harbor Freights model... Well, I have used it and used it... works great, I usually use it for 3/4" stock, so I don't have to make many adjustments, but it works suprisingly well and easy... I've also got a HF nail gun that I've used and abused for years... works great, better than my Dewalt guns... and I've had HF tools that broke down on the first job... Sigh.


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