# Looking for plans on a vertical panel saw



## evolution.727

I'm trying to find some plans on a vertical panel saw.Free would be nice but not mandatory.Looked up rocklers plans but the reviews looked really bad any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## LarrySch

http://www.shopnotes.com/plans/panel-saw/exploded/ -
























[SIZE=-1]This woodworking plan appeared in _ShopNotes_ magazine No. 4.[/SIZE]


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## evolution.727

Thank you.I found this plan already and I purchased it.Right after i bought it i found a new and improved plan that they sell as well.It was in shopnotes issue 88 any idea on where i can find back issues of shopnotes magazines.


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## LarrySch

I would just get online and ask ShopNote directly where you can buy back issues.
also this was interesting - not sure if it helps you at all.
http://www.shopnotes.com/extras/


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## SawdustAddiction

*panel saw*

Let me know if you are still looking for some plans I just ran accross some that i will send to you for free via email if interested.


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## Nilt

SawdustAddiction said:


> Let me know if you are still looking for some plans I just ran accross some that i will send to you for free via email if interested.


I wouldn't mind some of those. I've found quite a few plans out there and am leaning towards a rolling woodcart with an integrated panel cutting system from ShopNotes. Problem is, I have a perfect spot in my shop for a panel saw but no plan that's "quite right" yet.


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## tino86

any idea of what they are using for the bearings on the track? looks like a u-bolt with some bits of hard plastic tubing on it? Anyone build this?


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## Handyman

Larry Sch did you build the panel saw, and if so how well does it work?


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## mics_54

I'm gonna buy a Home Depot...they always have a panel saw!


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## Gangaras_007

SawdustAddiction said:


> Let me know if you are still looking for some plans I just ran accross some that i will send to you for free via email if interested.


I’m interested…lol. I was wondering if you still had the info on those plans you ran across…if you do could you send me them to me to my e-mail.


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## Kender

^^^me too, if you still have the plans I would appreciate it.


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## zacker

so what ever became of this project? anyone build this? id love to hear your thoughts and how its going... and if anyone has a set of plans they arent using although it doesnt seem to hard to make without em...


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## TimPa

2 recommendations. 1. buy a kit for the guides/bearings, as ubolts etc aren't quite right. 2. the top plate where the guide bars attach, build in an adjustable feature for squaring the cut. this may have been in the plans text?!?


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## jakeearl

could you email me what plans you recieved for the panel saw. much appreciated!


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## jakeearl

for some reason this made me LOL


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## rrich

mics_54 said:


> I'm gonna buy a Home Depot...they always have a panel saw!


But a competent operator may be another issue.
:laughing:


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## zacker

mics_54 said:


> I'm gonna buy a Home Depot...they always have a panel saw!


 
and all the crooked, warped, knotty beat up lumber you could ever want. :laughing:


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## zacker

If anyone would be so kind as to post or refer or email plans, it would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!


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## jakeearl

*I have the panel saw plans*

I have the panel saw plans from the Shopnotes magazine. 

I tried sending the panel saw plans to another guy and they are too large of a file to send over email. So instead, i'm just attaching the link and giving you directions on how to download them for free. 

click on the link below, then click on green download button and that will send you to a new screen, then click the large blue file download button, which will send you to another screen, click on free user, which will send you to another screen, wait the 36 seconds, then click download. 

A new screen will pop up and either click save to computer or open and save it later. 

Here is the link to get started:
http://ineedfile.com/shopnotes-panel-saw

Enjoy your free panel saw plans! 

Jake


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## Cincinnati

*Linear Bearings*

I would change the design to incorporate linear bearings. This may add a little expense to the project, but it will greatly improve cut accuracy. Unless you want your panel saw to be a rough cut saw to break down sheet goods and not use it to dimension panels, I would change the design from u-clamps and homemade bearings.


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## zacker

Cincinnati said:


> I would change the design to incorporate linear bearings. This may add a little expense to the project, but it will greatly improve cut accuracy. Unless you want your panel saw to be a rough cut saw to break down sheet goods and not use it to dimension panels, I would change the design from u-clamps and homemade bearings.


 
do you have a site for the bearings? sounds interesting. Oh, I had the chance to buy a real Panel saw for $300.00 from a shop who put it on Facebook but I didnt go for it.. now im kicking myself!! :furious:


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## zacker

Opps, thats Craigs List not Facebook..lol


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## cmcel

if you have the room check out the one in ShopNotes 88


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## zacker

I actually got that one.. im just waiting for the space to actually build it. I just moved and we stuck everything in the Garage for now so my tools are buried deep under boxes and stuff...lol 
Thanks for the reply though.:thumbsup:


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## Cincinnati

*Linear Motion Bearings*

Here's one link.

http://www.lm76.com/

Google "Linear Motion Bearings" and you'll get more than you want to look into. Most bearing supply houses carry them. McMaster-Carr does also.


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## zacker

Thanks Much Cincin.:yes:


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## zacker

Cincinnati said:


> Here's one link.
> 
> http://www.lm76.com/
> 
> Google "Linear Motion Bearings" and you'll get more than you want to look into. Most bearing supply houses carry them. McMaster-Carr does also.


 


These would be sweet!! Id probably opt for the open style so they can be lubed easier.. althoght, it might let more sawdust get in and gum it up..Hmmmm...

http://www.lm76.com/open_and_closed_pillow_blocks.htm


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## Cincinnati

*Bearing Choice*

I'd recommend sealed pillow block or the non-driven slide:

http://www.lm76.com/m-rps_linear_slides.htm


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## zacker

so, while at the Home Depot the other day, I looked at the bearing set up on their saw... it looks exactly like the one pictured in the plan in the beginning of this thread but the round "Spacer" type bearings look to be made of possibly a carbon type materiel. ... that would explain the sheet steel housing over them, carbon is a great bearing materiel but very fragile..they will chip and crack if hit. 
Other than that its just a U-bolt type piece with a bunch of round discs about 1/4 inch thick on it....just like the pic in the beginning of this thread.


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## Cincinnati

*Accuracy of Panel Saws*

I have never used a panel saw. HD used one to break down a couple sheets of plywood. I had to re-cut every piece because the cuts were off square.

I assumed it was because nobody cared and so many different users made cuts that this saw just wasn't aligned. But perhaps they are difficult to align for square and parallel cuts.

Without proper bearing surfaces and adjustment capabilities, it would be difficult to impossible to make precision cuts. If I were building one myself, I would design it to have adjustment capability for squareness to the base "fence" and for parallel cuts (if I wanted to rip a 4x8 sheet into 2'x8' strips for example).

This is why I would go for linear bearings on tracks or rods as opposed to using U-bolts and sections of pipe for roller bearings. 

If you want one only for rough dimensioning, the original design even with the inherent inaccuracies would probably be a wise investment.


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## opticsguy

When i buy my sheet goods, I usually have a plan for what I need and have the panels cut at the store. Easier to handle and no money or space used on a panel saw. I recut (trim) the panels to final size as needed.(Of course it would be nice ..................


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## zacker

opticsguy said:


> When i buy my sheet goods, I usually have a plan for what I need and have the panels cut at the store. Easier to handle and no money or space used on a panel saw. I recut (trim) the panels to final size as needed.(Of course it would be nice ..................


Hmmmm.. good point. lol. I think the wanting the saw is mainly for its "Coolness" factor..that and it will give us something fun to make. :yes:

I honestly dont NEED one, I just WANT one. what Id seriously really like is a bigger, better table saw!


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## woodnthings

*Shop space for ripping panels*



zacker said:


> Hmmmm.. good point. lol. I think the wanting the saw is mainly for its "Coolness" factor..that and it will give us something fun to make. :yes:
> I honestly dont NEED one, I just WANT one. what Id seriously really like is a bigger, better table saw!


A bigger/better table saw would be great, but keep in mind to rip a 8' plywood panel along it's length, you will need 18 to 20 feet of "run"
and support tables on both the in and out feed of the saw to be accurate and safe.
The panel saw doesn't change that length requirement unless you get or make one where the saw arm slides along the support frame horizontally, like the Holz Her and other professional saws. 
*







*​

I am planning to build one like that with a 10' support frame, maybe 12', to save floor space in the shop........it's on my very long list of wanta dos. 
My buddy just got one of those $15,000 saws from Craigs list for $500.... 3 phase, they were just going to scrap it out, having amortized off down to zero. I helped him truck it to his shop so I know it was a steal of a deal. I was envious  and it inspired me to build my own. :laughing: bill


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## Cincinnati

*Ripping Length of Sheet goods*

Woodnthings makes a good point about needing 8 feet plus clearance on each side of the saw if you use a design that requires the sheet to be pushed through the saw.

There are two reasons why I would modify those designs for both north/south and east/west saw travel.

The first is safety. I intended to post this from the moment I realized most shop-built designs require the wood to be pushed for ripping. Now you essentially have a tablesaw turned vertical. Those designs are DANGEROUS. The opportunity for kickback is great with no splitters or anti-kickback devices. The piece above the cut is falling into the blade. With a carriage that moves both up/down and left/right, you are pushing the saw out of the wood as the cut finishes. Furthermore, you could insert a spacer in the kerf as you start it and 2/3 of the way into the cut to prevent a dangerous problem.

I know most people don't do this, but it only takes one kickback.

Secondly, Unless you have a large shop with nothing along a wall, it's hard enough finding 8-9 feet of available wall space. 

If I ever decided to build a panel saw, I would make the design modifications I mentioned in previous posts including rails for travel left/right for ripping the sheet.


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## zacker

Cincinnati said:


> If I ever decided to build a panel saw, I would make the design modifications I mentioned in previous posts including rails for travel left/right for ripping the sheet.


I dont think it would be all that hard to do this actually.. you would just need a way to lock it down so it doesnt move while cutting, throwing off the cut. What about getting this? and somehow mounting it too a stand..


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## mdntrdr

Zacker.........Your link is dead.


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## zacker

mdntrdr said:


> Zacker.........Your link is dead.


 

 opps... sorry for that..

Amazon.com: PSI Woodworking PPS-2 Portable Panel Saw System (Saw&#133;


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## Cincinnati

How about this:

http://www.festoolusa.com/accessories/guide-rails/parallel-guide.html


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## Cincinnati

I Bought plans for a panel saw years ago from Rockler. Never built it because I just don't use that many sheets of plywood. Even when I built cabinets for my photography studio, I used a Square, a CLamp-n-Guide, and an 18v Cordless DeWalt trim saw. It was easy to break the sheets down while horizontal. 

The only reason for me to build one today would be to fulfill the "Toolman Syndrome" and just to build one because I could.


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## Cincinnati

Cincinnati said:


> How about this:
> 
> http://www.festoolusa.com/accessories/guide-rails/parallel-guide.html


PLease know that you could use a 4' or an 8' guide rail with these parallel guides. This system may seem a bit expensive, but I have several rails and their plunge saw. The cuts are always dead on. Now that I think of it, I would build a vertical panel saw using this system. Even if I had to mount their rails to a linear bearing/rail design.


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## zacker

Cincinnati said:


> Even when I built cabinets for my photography studio


 
_photography studio _Ok, now im jelouse!!!! Although Im not that confidant with shooting people, When I have done it in an "unofficial" - official setting, I had a blast!! lol

I have a quesation on cross cuts w/ the PS.. In HD and Lowes, dont they also have to Push the wood into the saw? I cant remember if this is how they did it or not. Maybe Ill have em cut a sheet just to see....lol by the way, I lve thier "Scrap" wood and items bin... I got 8 4 foot 2"x4" the other day... .51 cents each.. I now own the cheapest pair of saw horses I ever had....lol


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## corvxr

*Festool TS 55 Vertical panel saw*

I have been thinking about building this machine for a while now based on the plunge capability of the TS 55 saw. A little background. I have been a professional cabinetmaker/installer since 1986. I owned and operated a custom cabinet shop in northern NJ until 1992 when we moved to the Orlando Fl area. I did not open my own shop here but began working for a small kitchen cabinet company running their small shop. Since 1997 I have installing high end custom cabinets in mostly new homes for the same company. In the fall of 2008 that business disappeared here and in many other places. I therefore went out on my own building and installing custom cabinets. 

Since I was only installing cabinets I did not need a "shop" . The jobsite was my shop. All my tools were portable and easily movable from job to job.
I first came across Festool at IWF in Atlanta about 10 years ago. I bought the CDD 12 Drill. A short time later I bought the predecessor to the TS 55, the CT 22 and the MFT. I sold the old saw to a friend and bought the TS 55. These all served me well at the job.

Now I need a shop again. Most of my jobs involve cutting between 15 and 30 sheets of 4x8 material, mostly plywood but some melamine board. I have been using the TS55 and the guide rails together with my portable table saw. While ok I was not happy with the speed or the accuracy from part to part.

I decided to build a vertical panel saw modelled after a Holz Her 1265 Which I had owned and operated in my NJ shop (google "holz her 1265" and you will see what it looks like) with the TS 55 as the saw.
I have always liked cutting with a vertical panel saw. Some people do not. It takes up very little floor space and allows a large panel to stay fixed and the small saw to move.
Here are some pictures



 

   



The foundation of the machine is the solid and accurate movement of the main carraige in the horizontal direction and the saw carraige in the vertical direction. This is done with heavy duty linear bearings for the vertical movement (crosscut) and V groove roller wheels for the horizontal direction(rip). The frame and main carraige are made of MDF. The frame must be level and bolted to the floor. The saw rotates from vertical to horizontal on a heavy duty aluminum ball bearing lazy susan. A 28 lb counterweight slides up and down inside the main carriage to allow for stabile positioning.

To rip, the carraige moves from side to side and the saw carraige is locked in position at whatever scale setting is chosen. The scale registers from the bottom support upwards. There is also something called a strip gauge which allows you to cut from the top down. For example if you wanted several 3" strips it would be difficult to cut them from the bottom. With the strip gauge you set the gauge to 3", move the arm on the top of the panel, drop the saw carraige to the stop with the knob and cut away. Repeat your way down as often as needed. The horizontal grid supports the panel and moves up 1" pneumatically to avoid cutting into a rail.

To crosscut, the main carraige is locked in position "0" . The scale to the left is set to your size and the saw carraige is moved down to cut. In addition, there are two other positons marked +24 and + 48. These allow you to cut longer parts than the scale is marked. For example, if you wanted a part 90" long you would lock the carraige at +48 and set the left side scale to 42".

I have been a reader on this forum for many years and have never posted until now. I appreciate all the tips and tool reviews over the years. This project was a lot of work and I know that most members would not need a machine like this but I thought I would share this design so that maybe some of the ideas may lead to future jigs and inventions.

Although I had an overall plan for the panel saw, most of the details like the locks, scales, pneumatics etc were designed as I went along. The cost, excluding the TS55 which is easily removeable, was about $900 . The most expensive parts were the linear rails and bearings and the pneumatics, mostly purchased used on ebay.

I did not go into great detail but if anyone wants more info or pictures i would be happy to share.

Bob Fasano
Windermere Fl


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## steve_wood

I really like your vertical panel.
thanks


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## yngndrw

Hi,

I just signed up to ask more about your design, Bob.

First of all I'd like to say that your design looks great, well thought-out and very "polished".

I'm thinking of building a panel saw mainly for the amount of space that it would save compared to a table saw. I only have a double garage to work in and don't want to take up all of the space with one tool. I'd like to cut full 8'x4' sheets quickly, easily and safely. I'm also on a much tighter budget than you were.

Anyway, I'd like to ask you for some more information on your build and also ask some questions as well.

First of all I don't quite understand strip gauge - Could you explain that again please ?

Secondly how do you avoid cutting lots of vertical lines in your supports - Do you only cut in a few specific places or just cut into them anyway ?

Thirdly, related to safety. Normally when using a circular saw you would have the base of the saw against the wood that you are cutting. The rotation of the blade brings the teeth up against the base of the saw which keeps the saw flat against the wood. In a panel saw you have a fixed distance between the base of the saw and the rear supports. The wood sits against the rear supports and hence there is a gap between the front face of the wood and the base of the saw. Additionally the wood is not clamped against the supports. If you were to cut with the normal direction, the rotation of the saw would pull the wood away from the supports and towards the saw which would cause at best inaccuracy and at worse injury. If you cut backwards the rotation of the blade would push the wood away from the saw into the supports, however a force is applied to the saw pushing it towards the user so the bearings must be able to support this. With this in mind do you cut backwards or is there something else that I'm missing ?

Finally, any additional photos, descriptions or the like would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Andrew.


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## corvxr

Andrew,
It may be a little hard to explain the workings of a vertical panel saw if you have never used one before, but I will give it a try.

As I explained in my original post, the saw is a Festool TS55 which has a plunge feature so that the blade is not exposed until you move it down into the work. There is no need for a lower blade guard like most circular saws because the blade is not exposed at rest. The saw cuts in the normal direction.

If you have seen the saws at Home Depot or Lowes, this saw is not like them!

The saw carraige actually moves about 2" in and out so that the saw base mounting plate(the green piece within the aluminum circular bearing) presses on the panel as the cut is being made. If you look at the 3rd picture you will see 2 large metal rectangles which hold the linear bearings which make this motion possible. The saw blade is never exposed until you move the carraige forward and plunge the saw down. The depth of cut is controlled on the saw depth scale. This type of cut and safety is not possible with a regular circular saw, you must use plunge type saw. Dewalt has also recently come out with one.

As far as cutting into the rails, as I explained in the original post, the rails are not attached to the saw frame directly, but are on moveable posts which are housed in the vertical frame members. They move up and down 1" via a series of pneumatic actuators visible in the last picture and controlled from the switch on the front
depending on the position of the blade when ripping. The scale with the orange & green stripes tells me where the saw is. For example if the red wire crosses the orange stripe, I would actuate the switch to shift the rails up to the green position and the saw blade will not cut a rail. The rails all move together as one. This was a very complicated part of the build since the rails need to be firm yet moveable. 

The strip gauge in picture 5 is useful so that you can cut from the top down. I explained it the best I can in the original post and unless you actually use it, it is hard to explain.

This saw is a very complicated build and requires a high degree of precision for the saw to be useful. There is a reason that the commercial saw cost $15,000 and up. I am not trying to discourage you but this is not a weekend project.


I will try to post some additional detail pictures this week.

Hope this helps
Bob


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## yngndrw

Bob,

It does make more sense now. At first I didn't realise which part the strip gauge was but now that you pointed it out the description has become clear.

Regarding the cutting into the rails part, I meant when you're doing crosscuts. You mentioned that there are positions 0", 24" and 48" but I didn't see and vertical cuts into the supports which confused me and left me wondering if you had find a way of getting around cutting into them.

I didn't even notice that there was a "Z axis" slider on it so that explains a lot. Have you spring loaded it so that it rests in the "out" position or did you just leave it with just friction ? I've seen the plunge circular saws but the prices are silly for the ones I've seen over here (£400-£500) so I would probably just adapt a normal saw to do the same thing. It just seems to be that the depth control on the saw is spring loaded like on a plunge router which should be easy enough to adapt.

I intended to build a machine with a work area of 10'x6', which would give plenty of room when working with a 8'x4' sheet. The only concern that I have is getting linear bearings of that length as they all seem to be up to 8'. I intended to use V bearings throughout so I guess I could just butt two rail lengths up to each other to make up the length.

I've also been considering either mounting a router next to the saw or even to build a CNC machine instead. I do have some experience with a small CNC machine and it would make it far more versatile, however the cost would also go up. If I were to build a CNC machine I'd build it vertical like this panel saw and would probably use a vacuum hold-down for it. I've only ever seen one commercial vertical CNC machine and one home-made one, but by using some of the ideas that you have in your panel saw I think that it would turn out well. Then again, not sure I want the complexity of a CNC right now.

Just looking at your pictures, it looks as if the bottom of the sliding part just runs on bearings against the front of the bottom MDF part - Is this correct or is there also a V rail at the bottom ? If you could specifically show how you setup the V bearings as well as the locking mechanisms that would be a huge help. I'll make some drawings / 3D models of what I intend to build and post them, but I'm not sure it would be designed so quickly as I have to work out some ideas in my head first.

Oh and finally: About the slats - Did you thickness them or did you just rely on the sizing out of the packet ? I don't have a table saw or thicknesser so I'm not sure if I'd be able to make a flat enough surface.

Thanks again,
-Andrew.


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## bqbase

Cincinnati said:


> I would change the design to incorporate linear bearings. This may add a little expense to the project, but it will greatly improve cut accuracy. Unless you want your panel saw to be a rough cut saw to break down sheet goods and not use it to dimension panels, I would change the design from u-clamps and homemade bearings.


Instead of using linear bearing, it is much cheaper if you build it this way using 4 small ball bearings.
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab293/binhquach/PanelSaw.jpg


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## mooreoftom

Great information!


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## BWSmith

Yes,good info guys.

bqbase,I'm with you on looking for cheaper,bearing alternatives.I'd be thinking about square or boxed "ways",and/or cam bearings.BW


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## woodnthings

*Don't go there its Teds*



habragirl said:


> Maybe the plans you need can be found in this resource.


:furious::furious::furious:


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## Al B Thayer

I posted a panel saw using 8020 linear bearings in the general section. You might want to look into 8020. Very accurate and very little cost.

Can't make any money in wood


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## obfuscode

Bob... that's amazing. I'm glad you shared your design with us. I still can't picture how the rail actuator system works. If you could post up a video of your saw in action, that would be great!

I've only recently looked into the idea of a DIY panel saw but in my research into building a DIY CNC Machine, it seems they share quite a bit in common and the CNC group highly recommend skate-bearings for the linear rails mounted on 90º aluminum stock. As long as the rails are adjustable and straight, this is a fairly accurate setup. It's not as precise as as $10k machine but for a home setup it should be fine and if it's good enough for CNC work, it has to be good enough for either dimensioning or near-final sizing of panels. I picked up 16 bearings for less than $25 from my local skateboard / rollerblade shop.

Another option is to attach the skate bearings to the U-Bolts instead of nylon spacers but I can't find the picture of that currently.

I'll post back here after I give my idea a shot.


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## zacker

I like the bearings on the alum angle set up.. I looked at the saw in my local Home Depot and its just got the u bolt with black spacers type bearings on it..im guessing though, the "Spacers" are maybe some type or carbide or something like that?


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## Al B Thayer

These bearings will work longer and with a lot less trouble. Dust doesn't clog them like roller bearings.You can save a bundle and buy the parts and build them yourself. My saw works so well and easy I am very pleased with it's performance. 

Also the way the saw rotates from CC to rip has the advantages of speed and accuracy. 









This shows the bearings being built









Friends don't let friends use Craftsman.


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## zacker

HOLY ***P!!! Thats a sweet looking build! And your shop is so neat and clean...lol How do you guys get your wives to give up their "I wanna run everything about your life" thoughts and start thinking "what ever you want to do with the garage and your money and time is up to you dear, ill back you 100%!' ? lol


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## Al B Thayer

zacker said:


> HOLY ***P!!! Thats a sweet looking build! And your shop is so neat and clean...lol How do you guys get your wives to give up their "I wanna run everything about your life" thoughts and start thinking "what ever you want to do with the garage and your money and time is up to you dear, ill back you 100%!' ? lol


Zacker

This is my man cave. I just moved in a few months ago. I build custom furniture.

Al

Friends don't let friends use Craftsman.


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## zacker

nice shop, clean, roomy, neat.. You can actually walk around in there... sweet. 


 Here's mine..


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## zacker

Oh yeah, ive also recently added to this mess, a snow blower and two Photography studio strob lights and stands... nice!! lol (something else to trip over and walk around!) lol


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## Al B Thayer

Zacker

Come on man. There's room in there you just gota clean it up and throw some of it away. Get a shed and fill it with the stuff you can't part with. Then set up your tools. I tried to set up a shop in the garage. Just couldn't make it work. Now I have a fully dedicated shop away from my home. 

Thanks for sharing your man cave.

Al

Friends don't let friends use Craftsman.


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## bevins

I found what I was looking for. Thanks, brilliant panel saw.

thanks,

Bob


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## Icutone2

DeWalt Trak Saw works for me.
Lee


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