# Mineral Spirits Residue



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

I want to clean a piece of furniture with mineral spirits and then use a water based top coat.

Is there any risk of residue being left from the mineral spirits that could cause an adhesion problem?

Thanks.

Gary


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

Never has been a problem for me, just let it dry real good before top coating


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Catpower said:


> Never has been a problem for me, just let it dry real good before top coating


Thanks. I assume using water based top coats has been okay.

Gary


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

It will work, when working with light colored woods sometimes is I suspect I might have misses a spot of glue I will wet the whole surface with mineral spirits to see any glue spots and I have used Minwax Polyacylic and it came out fine


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

GAF said:


> I want to clean a piece of furniture with mineral spirits and then use a water based top coat.
> 
> Is there any risk of residue being left from the mineral spirits that could cause an adhesion problem?
> 
> ...


Naptha is a better alternative. It cleans better and dries faster.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

I 2nd the naphtha!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you mean you want to clean a finished piece of furniture and use a waterborne finish then that presents a whole bunch of problems. A waterborne won't just adhere to a lot of finishes. It's kind of like the dilemma of painting an oil based enamel with latex paint. It can be done but you have to prime the oil based enamel with an oil based primer. Likewise with the waterborne clear coat, it can be done but you may need to seal the existing finish with Zinsser Sealcoat. The Sealcoat will bond to most finishes and the waterborne clear coat will bond to the Sealcoat.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> If you mean you want to clean a finished piece of furniture and use a waterborne finish then that presents a whole bunch of problems. A waterborne won't just adhere to a lot of finishes. It's kind of like the dilemma of painting an oil based enamel with latex paint. It can be done but you have to prime the oil based enamel with an oil based primer. Likewise with the waterborne clear coat, it can be done but you may need to seal the existing finish with Zinsser Sealcoat. The Sealcoat will bond to most finishes and the waterborne clear coat will bond to the Sealcoat.


Steve lots of food for thought in your feedback. This is not as simple as I expected which is why I asked. I need to plan this process better.

Gary


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

GAF said:


> Steve lots of food for thought in your feedback. This is not as simple as I expected which is why I asked. I need to plan this process better.
> 
> Gary


If all your wanting to do is clean the furniture and apply a topcoat, all you have to do is first wipe the piece down with Naptha as that will remove all the oils and contaminates from the piece. Then simply wipe the piece down with a deglosser and a lint free rag. You can purchase a deglosser from Lowes near the Acetone and Mineral Spirits section......follow the instructions on the bottle. After 15 minutes you can apply the water base topcoat and your done.

The deglosser will "etch" the finish and promote adhesion without causing damage to the finish underneath. Ive done this plenty of times. The deglosser works especially great on carvings and hard to sand areas.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

ColorStylist said:


> If all your wanting to do is clean the furniture and apply a topcoat, all you have to do is first wipe the piece down with Naptha as that will remove all the oils and contaminates from the piece. Then simply wipe the piece down with a deglosser and a lint free rag. You can purchase a deglosser from Lowes near the Acetone and Mineral Spirits section......follow the instructions on the bottle. After 15 minutes you can apply the water base topcoat and your done.
> 
> The deglosser will "etch" the finish and promote adhesion without causing damage to the finish underneath. Ive done this plenty of times. The deglosser works especially great on carvings and hard to sand areas.


Thank you. I learn something every time I ask a question which is exactly why I keep asking. Deglossing is a new trick for me to use. Nice to know.

Gary


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GAF said:


> Thank you. I learn something every time I ask a question which is exactly why I keep asking. Deglossing is a new trick for me to use. Nice to know.
> 
> Gary


The problem is deglossers don't do the job they claim. You would be better off cleaning the furniture with a wax and grease remover and scuff sanding the old finish with 220 paper. I still don't agree you can directly put a waterborne over anything but the same waterborne. You risk the finish pealing off in sheets.


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## Scott Jude Livesey (Mar 23, 2017)

I used to use mineral spirits before finishing, but found it always left the wood "oily". not a big deal if you are doing an oil based finish, but sometimes my water based finishes would bubble up in spots. I now use el cheapo rubbing alcohol to do final clean, no issue with residue or odor. I use Rustoleum Pro Finisher water based poly for floors for most projects.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> The problem is deglossers don't do the job they claim. You would be better off cleaning the furniture with a wax and grease remover and scuff sanding the old finish with 220 paper. I still don't agree you can directly put a waterborne over anything but the same waterborne. You risk the finish pealing off in sheets.


I started using a deglosser years ago. Much easier. The problem with sanding with sand paper while wanting to recoat an existing finish is your more liable to occasionally sand through corners, high areas on carvings (if there are any), etc.....then that opens another can of worms and touchup/repair is needed to be done. 

If the two are uncatalyzed materials, then GAF should be good to go.....which in this case Im sure they are uncatalyzed. You can spray a water born topcoat over lacquer and have great adhesion as long as the necessary steps are taken before applying the topcoat, which is in any case, sanding. Ive done over a dozen refinishes on kitchen cabinets using deglosser and have not had any problems. Im talking some of the refinishes are a little over 2 years old now. A deglosser will be good enough to use in this instance.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ColorStylist said:


> I started using a deglosser years ago. Much easier. The problem with sanding with sand paper while wanting to recoat an existing finish is your more liable to occasionally sand through corners, high areas on carvings (if there are any), etc.....then that opens another can of worms and touchup/repair is needed to be done.
> 
> If the two are uncatalyzed materials, then GAF should be good to go.....which in this case Im sure they are uncatalyzed. You can spray a water born topcoat over lacquer and have great adhesion as long as the necessary steps are taken before applying the topcoat, which is in any case, sanding. Ive done over a dozen refinishes on kitchen cabinets using deglosser and have not had any problems. Im talking some of the refinishes are a little over 2 years old now. A deglosser will be good enough to use in this instance.


At a time when I had a refinishing shop within the city limits of Dallas I had the fire marshal all over me for using lacquer. They wanted me to double the sheetrock on the walls, install an alarm system, install a sprinkler system, all in a rented building. I was forced to start using waterborne finishes and it was terrible. No matter what I did the finish wouldn't adhere to anything I was trying to touch up. I think I used every deglosser on the market. You couldn't see or feel any difference in the finish. It took sanding for the finish would bond at all. Carvings are not handled that much to be an issue, it's the edges of a table top which show up first. Anyway I finally solved the problem. I moved my shop out of Dallas. Now after all these years it looks like the environmentalists are going to move my shop out of business. I was hoping I might finish my career first.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Scott Jude Livesey said:


> I used to use mineral spirits before finishing, but found it always left the wood "oily". not a big deal if you are doing an oil based finish, but sometimes my water based finishes would bubble up in spots. I now use el cheapo rubbing alcohol to do final clean, no issue with residue or odor. I use Rustoleum Pro Finisher water based poly for floors for most projects.


Thanks Scott I will try the rubbing alcohol approach since I have some in the workshop.

Gary


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> At a time when I had a refinishing shop within the city limits of Dallas I had the fire marshal all over me for using lacquer. They wanted me to double the sheetrock on the walls, install an alarm system, install a sprinkler system, all in a rented building. I was forced to start using waterborne finishes and it was terrible. No matter what I did the finish wouldn't adhere to anything I was trying to touch up. I think I used every deglosser on the market. You couldn't see or feel any difference in the finish. It took sanding for the finish would bond at all. Carvings are not handled that much to be an issue, it's the edges of a table top which show up first. Anyway I finally solved the problem. I moved my shop out of Dallas. Now after all these years it looks like the environmentalists are going to move my shop out of business. I was hoping I might finish my career first.


Why, VOC's???

When I use water base, or look for using a low VOC system, I now use SAYERLACK instead of the Sherwin Williams Kem Aqua stuff. Sayerlack sprays just like lacquer and does not have that milky look like most waterbourne topcoats have. I promise you I have used this product over lacquer with no problems at all. 

I did a small, narrow 5 drawer chest for the VP of marketing to promote Sayerlack when we first acquired that company. I simply used a deglosser and shot the Sayerlack straight over the previous NC lacquer. We did a cross hatch test to test the adhesion and it past with a high rating of 4....5 being the highest you can get. That was 3 years ago and it still looks as it did the day I shot it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ColorStylist said:


> Why, VOC's???
> 
> When I use water base, or look for using a low VOC system, I now use SAYERLACK instead of the Sherwin Williams Kem Aqua stuff. Sayerlack sprays just like lacquer and does not have that milky look like most waterbourne topcoats have. I promise you I have used this product over lacquer with no problems at all.
> 
> I did a small, narrow 5 drawer chest for the VP of marketing to promote Sayerlack when we first acquired that company. I simply used a deglosser and shot the Sayerlack straight over the previous NC lacquer. We did a cross hatch test to test the adhesion and it past with a high rating of 4....5 being the highest you can get. That was 3 years ago and it still looks as it did the day I shot it.


Why not VOC's. The stuff is dependable and easy to work with. While I haven't used the Sayerlack I can never believe it is as easy to work with as lacquers. It's at least going to raise the grain of the wood and I bet it takes more coats than lacquer.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Why not VOC's. The stuff is dependable and easy to work with. While I haven't used the Sayerlack I can never believe it is as easy to work with as lacquers. It's at least going to raise the grain of the wood and I bet it takes more coats than lacquer.


I meant is VOC's the reason environmentalists are trying to run you out???

Believe it or not, I can run a 5 step water based system (dye stain, wipe stain, 2 sealer coats, and a topcoat) and get the same results as a 5 step NC system.

Now when I have to formulate for California factories, I go with Sayerlack because of getting around VOC regulations. Technology has come a long way in water systems. They even make a 2 part water urethane that you cant tell the difference between once its dry. It almost looks like an epoxy coating.

Dont get me wrong, Im alot more comfortable with solvent systems, but the water of today is not too bad.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ColorStylist said:


> I meant is VOC's the reason environmentalists are trying to run you out???
> 
> Believe it or not, I can run a 5 step water based system (dye stain, wipe stain, 2 sealer coats, and a topcoat) and get the same results as a 5 step NC system.
> 
> ...


All of these environmental coatings are so much more labor intensive and troublesome I'm just not going there. I will stop finishing when that is all that is available.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> All of these environmental coatings are so much more labor intensive and troublesome I'm just not going there. I will stop finishing when that is all that is available.


If I wasnt subjected to have to use waterbourne systems from time to time because of my line of work, I would probably feel the same way. However, since I have to use them from time to time, you would be surprised how easy they are to use, and the results you can get. No one ever would have thought a water based paint could be applied on automobiles many years ago. A friend of mine says he actually likes it better than applying base coat/clear. I would be scared to death to go back painting cars and starting out with a waterbourne system.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ColorStylist said:


> If I wasnt subjected to have to use waterbourne systems from time to time because of my line of work, I would probably feel the same way. However, since I have to use them from time to time, you would be surprised how easy they are to use, and the results you can get. No one ever would have thought a water based paint could be applied on automobiles many years ago. A friend of mine says he actually likes it better than applying base coat/clear. I would be scared to death to go back painting cars and starting out with a waterbourne system.


I wouldn't use a waterborne on a car for sure. I'm currently having trouble with having trouble with latex wall paint pealing off primed walls. The primer stays but the latex paint is having adhesion problems. I used a paint block tape masking off the woodwork and we are having to use a knife to cut the paint before we remove the tape or the paint will peal off in sheets.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> I wouldn't use a waterborne on a car for sure. I'm currently having trouble with having trouble with latex wall paint pealing off primed walls. The primer stays but the latex paint is having adhesion problems. I used a paint block tape masking off the woodwork and we are having to use a knife to cut the paint before we remove the tape or the paint will peal off in sheets.


What kind of primer did you use? What kind of latex did you use? Bathroom? Living room? Kitchen?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ColorStylist said:


> What kind of primer did you use? What kind of latex did you use? Bathroom? Living room? Kitchen?


I used Kilz PVA drywall primer. It was used in three bedrooms and the living room. The Benjamin Moore paint used in one bedroom there was no problem. It was Valspar Signature line of paint which wasn't bonding well.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> I used Kilz PVA drywall primer. It was used in three bedrooms and the living room. The Benjamin Moore paint used in one bedroom there was no problem. It was Valspar Signature line of paint which wasn't bonding well.


First off, you *KNOW* you should have been using Sherwin Williams! LOL, just kidding.

Anyway, Valspar acrylic latex is one of the most finicky paints out there. Humidity will effect this paint like no other.

When using their acrylic latex, Valspar recommends to remove the tape while the paint is still wet. Keep in mind that tightly taping a newly painted wall could cause you to remove layers of paint; therefore, avoid sealing tape tightly against new paint. Good surface prep and a two-week cure will reduce the odds of pulling your new paint off with the tape. 

I hope that maybe some of the issues with consumer paints will be resolved once Sherwin Williams completes the Valspar acquisition by the end of June. "Axalta Coating Systems" is purchasing Valspar's North American Industrial Wood Coatings business because they said Sherwin Williams would be running a monopoly over American wood coatings, so the FTC made Valspar sell off that division before the acquisition.....but we get to keep Valspar's overseas wood coatings business....imagine that! All over the world no one had a problem with Sherwin purchasing the whole Valspar business, except the USA Federal Trade Commission.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ColorStylist said:


> First off, you *KNOW* you should have been using Sherwin Williams! LOL, just kidding.
> 
> Anyway, Valspar acrylic latex is one of the most finicky paints out there. Humidity will effect this paint like no other.
> 
> ...


In this case the customer was supplying me with the paint so it wasn't my choice. As far as this job went the Benjamin Moore paint was the best product. After applying two coats of the Valspar which was unusable because the sheen was blotchy, I went and bought some Glidden paint and I got it to work but still was a little blotchy. It turned out the paint would work when applied with a roller but not with an airless. I don't know of a place anywhere near me that sells Benjamin Moore paint though. Actually the best wall paint I've used is Walmart's Color Place line of paint. It covers well and never had any issues. 

I've used Sherwin Williams paint before and it seems to be watered down and doesn't cover well. It usually takes two to three coats to get it to cover even on primed walls. 

As far as removing the tape while the paint was still wet would have caused me to have to mask the room off several times since the paint didn't work. I had to wait until I could sign off on the appearance before removing the tape. In any case I've never had any latex wall paint peal off like that.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Actually the best wall paint I've used is Walmart's Color Place line of paint. It covers well and never had any issues.


You know that "ColorPlace" is actually Sherwin Williams paint right? Its SW's A-100 series line of paint. Sherwin Williams signed a 7 year deal with Walmart back in 2012. Walmart's stipulation is that they do not want any manufacturers name on the label of that specific "ColorPlace" brand. Before 2012, it was Valspar. All they do is fill up "run offs" of paint and sell it to Walmart using the ColorPlace label.

The best interior paint to use by Sherwin Williams is the *Duration* line.
The best exterior paint to use by Sherwin Williams is the *Resilience* line.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ColorStylist said:


> You know that "ColorPlace" is actually Sherwin Williams paint right? Its SW's A-100 series line of paint. Sherwin Williams signed a 7 year deal with Walmart back in 2012. Walmart's stipulation is that they do not want any manufacturers name on the label of that specific "ColorPlace" brand. Before 2012, it was Valspar. All they do is fill up "run offs" of paint and sell it to Walmart using the ColorPlace label.
> 
> The best interior paint to use by Sherwin Williams is the *Duration* line.
> The best exterior paint to use by Sherwin Williams is the *Resilience* line.


I didn't know that. I heard somewhere Color Place was made by Glidden is why I bought Glidden to cover the Valspar. 

The Valspar just went bad from the getgo. It was suppose to be satin and turned out to be what everyone else's gloss or semi-gloss would be. Then we got some flat paint and mixed it 50/50 with the satin to make it satin but the sheen across the wall was blotchy. I couldn't see wasting the expense of another day's labor fighting with that paint so I pretty much so I talked my customer into a different brand of paint. Still there was a couple walls I had to put two coats on before the sheen would even out. 

I've uses both Duration and Resilience for exterior painting and it went well. I've just never used the interior version.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> I didn't know that. I heard somewhere Color Place was made by Glidden is why I bought Glidden to cover the Valspar.
> 
> The Valspar just went bad from the getgo. It was suppose to be satin and turned out to be what everyone else's gloss or semi-gloss would be. Then we got some flat paint and mixed it 50/50 with the satin to make it satin but the sheen across the wall was blotchy. I couldn't see wasting the expense of another day's labor fighting with that paint so I pretty much so I talked my customer into a different brand of paint. Still there was a couple walls I had to put two coats on before the sheen would even out.
> 
> I've uses both Duration and Resilience for exterior painting and it went well. I've just never used the interior version.


I didnt know it either until I got with Sherwin.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*water based auto paint news*



ColorStylist said:


> If I wasnt subjected to have to use waterbourne systems from time to time because of my line of work, I would probably feel the same way. However, since I have to use them from time to time, you would be surprised how easy they are to use, and the results you can get. No one ever would have thought a water based paint could be applied on automobiles many years ago. A friend of mine says he actually likes it better than applying base coat/clear. I would be scared to death to go back painting cars and starting out with a waterbourne system.


I had thought new cars were "power coated", but I found this new process that save millions of gallons of water, much time on the assembly line reducing it to only 2 steps and one baking process:
http://gas2.org/2014/05/30/video-new-ford-paint-process-combines-color-and-clear-coat/


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> I had thought new cars were "power coated", but I found this new process that save millions of gallons of water, much time on the assembly line reducing it to only 2 steps and one baking process:
> http://gas2.org/2014/05/30/video-new-ford-paint-process-combines-color-and-clear-coat/


Cool, I have no idea what car manufacturers apply to new cars. I do know that most try to go "green" where they can.

A friend of mine does body repair and he now uses waterbourne products and swears by it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's the darn VOC's*



ColorStylist said:


> Cool, I have no idea what car manufacturers apply to new cars. I do know that most try to go "green" where they can.
> 
> A friend of mine does body repair and he now uses waterbourne products and swears by it.


THis is interesting regarding the increased use of waterborne finishes to reduce harmful VOCs:
https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2012/14/how-waterborne-paint-is-changing-the-auto-industry


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> THis is interesting regarding the increased use of waterborne finishes to reduce harmful VOCs:
> https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2012/14/how-waterborne-paint-is-changing-the-auto-industry


Yep, California is very strict on VOC regulations. Im surprised all states have not imposed harsher regulations to go green. 

Parts of China has threatened to go green for the last 2 years now, but always seem to put it off. It will cost many factories a fortune to switch over to a "water only" system.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A bigger issue ....*

The world is running out of clean water. Just ask Californians. Then they get record rainfalls that create mud slide because there are no plants to retain the soil because they all dry up from the drought. I don't know how much this would affect a large factory, but I'm sure water recycling would be a cost benefit. Dirty Jobs and Mike Rowe did a show on turning waste water...?? into drinking water, if I recall. 

I reread that link from SEMA and I was totally impressed with the waterborne process!. I wonder if there is any research on applying it to wood surface?
https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2012...-auto-industry



ColorStylist said:


> Yep, California is very strict on VOC regulations. Im surprised all states have not imposed harsher regulations to go green.
> 
> Parts of China has threatened to go green for the last 2 years now, but always seem to put it off. It will cost many factories a fortune to switch over to a "water only" system.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think a lot of people have this opinion of waterborne car paint.


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