# Hexagon Joints - Quick Assembly/Disassembly



## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Looking for ideas on how to join the sides of a hexagon for easy assembly/disassembly. I also do not want hardware showing on the front face of it. My initial though was to drill counterbored holes on one end of each side. Then, clamp the 2 pieces together and drill holes for thread inserts using the counterbored holes as guides. With this design, I would have 2 socket head cap screws bolting each side together. See below for some sketches. Anyone see a problem with this approach or a better way? Thanks!


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

This needs to come apart? What scale is the hexagon and how thick are the pieces?


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

BigCountry79 said:


> This needs to come apart? What scale is the hexagon and how thick are the pieces?


Yes, needs to come apart. Pieces are 4x4s and they are about 4ft long each. The hexagon will be about 7ft tall.


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

It depends on how strong the joints need to be. Your drawings suggest that the components are very thin. Because of that and screwing into end grain, the joint will be quite weak. However, you could do it that way.
If more strength is needed, make lap joints and run your screws through the lap from the back side.

Your reply #3 was posted just prior to mine. Yes, I would definitely use either lap joints or splined joints with screws run perpendicular through the joints. You could also make some metal mending plates at those angles to screw to the back side of each joint.


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

yomanbill said:


> It depends on how strong the joints need to be. Your drawings suggest that the components are very thin. Because of that and screwing into end grain, the joint will be quite weak. However, you could do it that way.
> If more strength is needed, make lap joints and run your screws through the lap from the back side.


It will not be load bearing, just needs to hold itself up. I'll consider the lap joints as an option. Thank you for the input!


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

7ft tall freestanding with 4x4 timbers. That's going to be heavy supporting it's own weight.

Disassembly and stability are going to be issues. The screws will not hold a well over time. I might recommend pinned bridle joints. If you wanted not to see the joint, you could make blind pins so you only see them from one side.

Another option is to add metal brackets to the outside.

The highest stress will be the two side joints wanting to splay out under its own weight.


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

BigCountry79 said:


> 7ft tall freestanding with 4x4 timbers. That's going to be heavy supporting it's own weight.
> 
> Disassembly and stability are going to be issues. The screws will not hold a well over time. I might recommend pinned bridle joints. If you wanted not to see the joint, you could make blind pins so you only see them from one side.
> 
> Another option is to add metal brackets to the outside.


What is the concern with disassembly and the screws not holding well over time? Just trying to understand. 

For stability, there will be outriggers added. The brackets on the outside are definitely on the table as an option. Thanks for the input!


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

DesignsforDIY said:


> What is the concern with disassembly and the screws not holding well over time? Just trying to understand.


How many times will it be assembled/disassembled? By one person or 2? Say you put it together face down on the floor, when you lift it vertical there will be stresses on the joints that aren't there when it is up. Overtime that can loosen the joints more than if it was up all the time.

I would make a rough calculation of the weight.

Is this for a display at a convention, trade show etc?


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Bob Bengal said:


> How many times will it be assembled/disassembled? By one person or 2? Say you put it together face down on the floor, when you lift it vertical there will be stresses on the joints that aren't there when it is up. Overtime that can loosen the joints more than if it was up all the time.
> 
> I would make a rough calculation of the weight.
> 
> Is this for a display at a convention, trade show etc?


It will probably be assembled/disassembled 10 or so times roughly and by at least 2 people. I was thinking the same that it would get bolted together face down then tilted up. Next the outriggers would be bolted on. The bolts will theoretically always be in tension and clamping the 2 angled faces together so I am not too worried about side loads or torsion as that will be transmitted through the faces of the 4x4s. 

It is not for a convention but a backdrop for another event.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

DesignsforDIY said:


> It will probably be assembled/disassembled 10 or so times roughly and by at least 2 people. I was thinking the same that it would get bolted together face down then tilted up. Next the outriggers would be bolted on. The bolts will theoretically always be in tension and clamping the 2 angled faces together so I am not too worried about side loads or torsion as that will be transmitted through the faces of the 4x4s.
> 
> It is not for a convec(N)tion but a backdrop for another event.


Convention, not convection...lol.

Forget screws, use barrel nuts with bolts. They won't pull out!


bed rail barrel bolts - Google Search





https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/fasteners/knockdown-hardware/67659-veritas-knock-down-fasteners?item=05G0702&utm_source=


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

woodnthings said:


> Convention, not convection...lol.
> 
> Forget screws, use barrel nuts with bolts. They won't pull out!
> 
> ...


Lol, yes, convention. Good catch. 

The barrel bolts are an interesting idea, how would you make a pocket for the barrel to sit in so that it is not visible?


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Here is what the bolt and insert idea looks like in case it was not clear in the initial description...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

DesignsforDIY said:


> Lol, yes, convention. Good catch.
> 
> The barrel bolts are an interesting idea, how would you make a pocket for the barrel to sit in so that it is not visible?


A counterbore with a plug/cap.
You're asking a lot for this joinery thing,Ya know.... lol.


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

woodnthings said:


> A counterbore with a plug/cap.
> You're asking a lot for this joinery thing,Ya know.... lol.


Gotcha, I'd have to layout the c'bore to see if it will fit. I wouldn't be worried about capping it if it was nested in the c'bore, that would be good enough.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> Forget screws, use barrel nuts with bolts. They won't pull out!


Aka dowel nuts. You can also get them seperate from the bolts so you can pick the bolts you want. Note that McMaster generally doesn't have the lowest prices and charges for shipping.








McMaster-Carr


McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




www.mcmaster.com




On Amazon search for: cross dowel nut

I would want at least 2 bolts per joint, 5/16" or larger. I don't know how tricky it'd be getting the threads and everything else lined up.


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## Kenh3497 (Jun 5, 2021)

It could take a fair amount of CA but if using lag bolts soak the threads cut in the wood with CA. Be sure to let the CA harden or removing the lags will be next to impossible. DON"T ask how I know this!!

With the above said I've never used the above technique on this large a scale.

Ken


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Bob Bengal said:


> Aka dowel nuts. You can also get them seperate from the bolts so you can pick the bolts you want. Note that McMaster generally doesn't have the lowest prices and charges for shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting, I could drill a blind hole in the back side and slide the nuts in. To your point it may be hard to line them up especially if they go in too deep. However a small knock out hole in the front face wouldn’t be the end of the world. Thanks for the tips!


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Kenh3497 said:


> It could take a fair amount of CA but if using lag bolts soak the threads cut in the wood with CA. Be sure to let the CA harden or removing the lags will be next to impossible. DON"T ask how I know this!!
> 
> With the above said I've never used the above technique on this large a scale.
> 
> Ken


What is CA?


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

DesignsforDIY said:


> What is CA?


Aka superglue.








Cyanoacrylate - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

If you use lap joints, splined joints, or mending plates mentioned above, you can use threaded inserts as you proposed in your original post. Should be easy and work just fine. Same hardware used in a slightly different way.
You say that you don't want any hardware showing on the front. If you can use plugs, filler, and/or paint to cover it, "T" nuts would be easier and less expensive. You would insert them from the front, but you could counter sink them and then cover and paint or plug them.


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## selfdef2k (11 mo ago)

woodnthings said:


> Convention, not convection...lol.
> 
> Forget screws, use barrel nuts with bolts. They won't pull out!
> 
> ...


How do I remove them?
I have some left over very nice bed frames that would be great for something else but I can't get the nut out.
It is deep inside a hole that is the same size as the nut, must have been hammered in with something down the hole. The hole is too small and nothing can be grabbed, the top is smooth. 
The other side the hole is even longer and narrower since it is for the bolt.
?
Chop off the ends behind it? Kind of a waste of nice wood.
Thank you


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

selfdef2k said:


> How do I remove them?
> I have some left over very nice bed frames that would be great for something else but I can't get the nut out.


Drill in from the other side with a 1/4" twist bit until it touches the barrel nut, then use a nail etc to punch the nut out.


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## selfdef2k (11 mo ago)

Bob Bengal said:


> Drill in from the other side with a 1/4" twist bit until it touches the barrel nut, then use a nail etc to punch the nut out.


Thank you, so much to learn, so little time


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

@DesignsforDIY did you make the project? How and how well did it work? Photos?


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Bob Bengal said:


> @DesignsforDIY did you make the project? How and how well did it work? Photos?


Hi Bob, Thanks for checking in! I have not had a chance to build it yet - had been searching for and bought a house over the past several weeks. It was brutal in this market but that is another story. 

Your timing is good though as I plan to try a small scale mock up of the connection points this weekend. I am now leaning toward 2x4s instead of 4x4s for cost and weight reasons. I am also thinking about pocket holing for 2 bolts to thread into inserts drilled into the end grain on the mating face. The long edge of the 2x4 will be the front face of the hexagon and the bolts will come in from the short edge on either side, if that makes sense. Thoughts?


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

DesignsforDIY said:


> Hi Bob, Thanks for checking in! I have not had a chance to build it yet - had been searching for and bought a house over the past several weeks. It was brutal in this market but that is another story.
> 
> Your timing is good though as I plan to try a small scale mock up of the connection points this weekend. I am now leaning toward 2x4s instead of 4x4s for cost and weight reasons. I am also thinking about pocket holing for 2 bolts to thread into inserts drilled into the end grain on the mating face. The long edge of the 2x4 will be the front face of the hexagon and the bolts will come in from the short edge on either side, if that makes sense. Thoughts?


@Bob Bengal here is a sketch of what I was poorly describing above









Not drawn in are the thread inserts in the end grain. I don't like like this approach and think the below approach will be easier...











I think I'll have to down size the bolts to get 2 side by side instead of 1 front and 1 back with move to a 2x4 instead of a 4x4.


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

That will be very weak. You have several suggestions above that would be much better.


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

This was keeping me up at night and I am probably trying to be overly clever so what do folks think about simplifying the design by going with 2 blocks mounted on the backside with thread inserts in 1 block and clearance holes in the other to clamp the 2 boards together. The blocks would be glued and screwed to the boards....


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

I suggest you use some scrap and make trial joints using all of the methods suggested above plus some of your own ideas and see which is the easiest for you to make and which ends up being the strongest. That is the only way you are going to find one you are satisfied with.


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Mocked up 1 joint connector with some scrap wood and hardware I had kicking around and tested it to failure. Despite what it looks like, I was actually happy with the results. If I rotated the grain 90 deg. would the block be more or less likely to split at the screw?


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## TwelveFoot (Dec 30, 2015)

If you hadn't countersunk the bolt heads as far it would have held better, since there would be more long grain to hold between the screw and the bolts. Or orient the screws the other way (like the two empty holes) with them closer to the bolts. Glue would make it a lot stronger too.


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

Try 2 similar to this at each joint. Use threaded inserts or "T" nuts where needed for frequent break-down.


https://www.lowes.com/pd/ReliaBilt-RB-6-IN-ZN-MENDING-PLATE/5001637037


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

TwelveFoot said:


> If you hadn't countersunk the bolt heads as far it would have held better, since there would be more long grain to hold between the screw and the bolts. Or orient the screws the other way (like the two empty holes) with them closer to the bolts. Glue would make it a lot stronger too.


Thanks for the feedback Mark! I intend to glue and screw but didn't glue for this trial. Couldn't wait that long for the glue to dry to test it out haha.


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

yomanbill said:


> Try 2 similar to this at each joint. Use threaded inserts or "T" nuts where needed for frequent break-down.
> 
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/ReliaBilt-RB-6-IN-ZN-MENDING-PLATE/5001637037


Good thought and still an option at this point. One concern I have is that there is no force pulling the joint faces together so it may be difficult to minimize the gap between the joints.


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

DesignsforDIY said:


> Good thought and still an option at this point. One concern I have is that there is no force pulling the joint faces together so it may be difficult to minimize the gap between the joints.


OK. Do the same thing you just did with wood only do it with metal angles; one on each side of the joint. Screw one leg to the wood and bolt the vertical legs together.


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

Another idea is to use these:





2 Pack RH10622G Joint Fastener Adjustale Countertop Bolt 3/4" to 2" Length Steel - - Amazon.com


2 Pack RH10622G Joint Fastener Adjustale Countertop Bolt 3/4" to 2" Length Steel - - Amazon.com



www.amazon.com


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Been busy with a lot of life things like buying and moving into a new house and wedding planning but finally got back to the hexagon and wanted to show some progress. I went with a block design screwed into the main pieces and they have a bolt going though them. Assembly/disassembly is easy, the rigidity is not super solid but it is good enough and it is not going to break or fall over. Next step will be working on the base to hold it upright and I might add some bracing off the back. Feel free to share your thoughts...


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## Half Fast Eddie (Jan 12, 2022)

Looks like it will work. What are you going to cover the face with?


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Half Fast Eddie said:


> Looks like it will work. What are you going to cover the face with?


I’ll be staining the whole structure. Its a backdrop for a wedding ceremony and there will be flowers attached to it.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Looks like you've figured it out. This morning an idea popped into my head for using 9mm or 12mm plywood gussets at each corner. Glue one half onto one side. Use wood screws to hold the adjacent side. The gussets could be rabbeted flush into the back side for a more sleek final look. More work of course.
4D


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

4DThinker said:


> Looks like you've figured it out. This morning an idea popped into my head for using 9mm or 12mm plywood gussets at each corner. Glue one half onto one side. Use wood screws to hold the adjacent side. The gussets could be rabbeted flush into the back side for a more sleek final look. More work of course.
> 4D
> View attachment 440065


Always love a good CAD model. What software are you using? 

Good idea and building off it, I would add inserts into the piece where the screws sink in to so that it could be assembled/disassembled for transporting and reuse.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

Hi Jon P. 
The CNC software I use (Aspire from Vectric.com) has great drafting and modelling features in it, as well as the ability to save renderings of models or toolpath results. 
As for threaded inserts I agree if the hex frame will be used many times.
4D


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)




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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

4DThinker said:


> Hi Jon P.
> The CNC software I use (Aspire from Vectric.com) has great drafting and modelling features in it, as well as the ability to save renderings of models or toolpath results.
> As for threaded inserts I agree if the hex frame will be used many times.
> 4D


 Very nice. Ill have to check it out.


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

BigCountry79 said:


>


My 7ft hexagon will be able to fit a lot of honey 🤣


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

DesignsforDIY said:


> Its a backdrop for a wedding ceremony and there will be flowers attached to it.


my new son-in-law made a similar octagonal thingy to get married in front of
after the wedding he sold it on fb for a tidy profit and had people begging for another
so he made 10 more, all pre-sold for $1000 profit  😂


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

DesignsforDIY said:


> My 7ft hexagon will be able to fit a lot of honey 🤣


I'm not messing with that bee!


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

_Ogre said:


> my new son-in-law made a similar octagonal thingy to get married in front of
> after the wedding he sold it on fb for a tidy profit and had people begging for another
> so he made 10 more, all pre-sold for $1000 profit  😂


Do you know how much he sold each one for if you don’t mind me asking?


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## DesignsforDIY (Jan 3, 2022)

Final post to close this one out, the hexagon is complete...


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