# stupid question



## Nurumkin (Dec 9, 2009)

Ok I am very new to woodworking so this is probably a very basic question. I am making a bathroom vanity and the bottom turned out very nice but when I did the counter top...

I only have a 6" jointer so I cut my lumber (rough cut oak) down to size jointed and planed it. Then I used biscuits to join the pieces (4 of them) I clamped them together with 1x2 pieces on each side of the sheet and did this on each end. when it dried it was bowed. What did I do wrong and what do I need to do to get nice sheets like this?


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## jaros bros. (Feb 18, 2009)

Did you check the moisture content of the wood prior to working with it? Did you alternate the pieces so the grain was not all going to move in one direction?


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## Nurumkin (Dec 9, 2009)

*re*

when you say alternate the grain what exactly do you mean? flip the crowns?

Also what is the best way to check the woods moisture?


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## Al B Cuttn Wud (Oct 14, 2007)

Chances are if your boards were square prior to joining, you induced the bow when you applied pressure with the clamps. When joining boards, I always use a few cross pieces of wood and clamp them down 90 degrees to the glued joints. Attached is a picture that will show you what I am talking about. 

To fix your problem now, I'd say it depends on how bad your bow is. I would probably rip down your glue lines to separate all your boards. Your ripped edges are probably slightly off because of the bow, so I would rip both sides of each board just to get the edges square again. 

Second option might be to take what you have to a cabinet shop and pay a few bucks to have it run through a planer or belt sander, just depends on how much you need to take off to get square, flat surfaces. 

Hope all this helps.


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## Nurumkin (Dec 9, 2009)

*re*

That is pretty much exactly how I did it. My best guess is that I either took the clamps off too early (about 12 hours, but my basement is only like 55 degrees right now) or it is because I didn't let the wood properly acclimate (I was only inside for a couple of days before I glued it. 

Luckily it was a small piece (24" by 30") so I can just rip it down fix it and use it for something else. 

I am going to try it again and see if it was just a coincidence. 

Also I have been using biscuits but I keep reading on here that they aren't that great. What is the best way to join pieces like this? I will be doing quite a bit of it as I attempt my kitchen. Would I have better luck with some kind of a routered glue joint?


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

No problem, the top can be used as is. Many woodworkers choose to arrange the end grain so the top has a cup when they know they are going to be fastening to a supported structure such as a cabinet. Place the cupped side down, fastening in the middle, and the entire top will be pulled down flat. Remember to elongate the other holes, or use table top fasteners to allow the top to float. (The suggestions above will work better on an unsupported top, such as a pedestal table.)

What type of finish do you plan on using on the top?


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## Nurumkin (Dec 9, 2009)

*re*

The cup is not severe (maybe .25 inches at the center) I am attaching it to the square framed base. If I just peg it in 3 or 4 spots along each side and glue and clamp it will it hold or will the cup pull out the glue eventually?


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## edp (May 25, 2007)

I would really like to see a picture before I offer any opinions. Any chance of that?

Ed


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

12 hrs is plenty of glue set up time

The material was rough cut oak and you said it was "was only inside for a couple of days before I glued it"

Was it KD? Was it stored outside prior to this? 

When some one says orient the grain for a panel glue up, this is what they mean.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

My guess is that the wood was not acclimatized to the interior of the house, or shop.

The best way to measure moisture content is with a moisture meter.

Gerry


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

As it's been suggested, the cross pieces called "cauls" keep the edges even while gluing. Alternating the grain direction is another aid.

You should also alternate your clamps. Having all the clamps on one side can pull the top in the direction of the clamps. Also pay attention to the directions on the glue bottle you're using. There are ambient temperatures that are required. For example, TB II recommends temps above 55 degrees. TB III recommends temps above 45 degrees. The ambient temperature, wood and glue should have been normalized to working temps.

Biscuits are not necessary for edge to edge glue ups. Needless to say don't even think about pocket screws.


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## seanmacdougal (Feb 5, 2010)

Without more info, we're all guessing, so here's anther guess. Did you have one side of the panel resting on a table or other surface with the other side exposed to air for a while? This could cause uneven moisture loss, and has warped many a glue-up. Possible cure is to put it out in the sun, cup down for a while.


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## WoodMark (Dec 18, 2009)

If the cup is across the grain (width) it also could be that your jointer fence is not exactly 90 degrees to the table. Try running the pieces through the jointer opposite their mating piece. Face in for one, face out for the mate. Also the glued up panels needs be able to expand and contract with the seasons. they expand more across the woods grain than with it. This may be more extreme in a bathroom. The top should be attached so it can do what it is going to do. Probably the easiest way is to attach it with screws through cleats that have slotted holes perpenducilar to the woods grain. NO GLUE, that would defeat the slotted hole purpose. Be sure to apply finish to both side of the top to create a balance. wouldnt want one face to be affected by the seasons quicker and more drastically than the other.....Forgot to mention, biscuits help in aligning the boards sometimes, but I feel they are more bother than they are worth and not necessary. Although they do add some additional strength, that may be outweighed by their disruption in a continious glue surface. If the boards fit together tight to begin with and they are not overly wide with wild grain patterns, you should be ok. After jointing the mating edges, hold the joint together with your hands at the center of the boards. If you can rock the boards in opposite directions you may have a convex edge one one or both of them. I try for just the opposite, a concave edge. I shoot for a gap of 1/128" to 1/64" gap at the middle of the joints length. This may help to keep the ends together over time as wood does most of its taking on and getting rid of moisture through the end grain.


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