# Wood ID Please!



## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

I picked up a few logs from a fence row someone was clearing. It had a nice multi-color end grain. I have no idea what the branches or leaves of the tree looked like so I'm asking for a little help so I won't have to go chop down a bunch of trees looking for more of this colored wood!

I turned these pieces green and it warped a LOT drying but didn't crack. The white outer wood shrinks a lot. The inner wood is multi-colored bands of brown, green, and yellow and doesn't shrink so much. It fades a bit drying but keeps a nice color. It has a unique aroma but I don't know how to describe it. A friend thinks it might be elm or hawthorn. It grows in mesic to upland soil in East Texas.

Thanks!


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Here is another photo a bit closer.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

And a final, hopefully one showing the grain....


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

Black locust or honey locust.Somtimes called osage orange in Texas.


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## tinstar (Mar 5, 2014)

Looks like pecan to me. Does it smell like a horse?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Looks like Osage Orange to me also.


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## tinstar (Mar 5, 2014)

How would you describe the smell of Osage orange? Just curious, I've never worked with it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

As best as I can remember osage orange smells like the green pod around a walnut. Must be similar as the pod will stain your hands on osage orange too.


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## Porcupossum (Feb 13, 2015)

Honey Locust , Black Locust and Osage Orange (horse apple,bois d'arc) are three different woods.
I have noticed Honey locust has a unique ring tone when you knock it with your fist. its harder than mesquite. Osage orange and honey locust both respond to black light, but from what i have noticed, they respond in different ways. The honey locust has some annual rings that show up nicely, while the osage orange luminates mainly between the white sapwood, and the inner hard wood with an intense yellow line.
Between black locust and honey locust there are some differences, like one of them has poisonous beans (probably black locust).
I haven't turned black locust yet, but honey locust is one of my favorite, I'm pretty sure that isn't what you have there. Grain does look like osage orange, just not as yellow as the ones i see around central TX. but we all know the way the soil affects the color of wood, right?


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

"Honey Locust , Black Locust and Osage Orange (horse apple,bois d'arc) are three different woods."
I agree but most people confuse them.People in Texas frequently call black locust ,osage orange.

This is some honey locust grown and milled in ILI believe with that bark yours is black locust.Honey locust has some really long wicked thorn clusters.


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## joek30296 (Dec 16, 2009)

You might try looking here http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/. Excellent site for wood id and he is or used to be a member here.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2012)

look`s like Ash to me. but go on the internet type in wood data base an look it up there.


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

Have you figured it out yet? If not, here's my $0.02.
It's not any kind of locust; bark is wrong.
Not Hedge either, for the same reason.
The bark does look a little like pecan, but I don't know about the multi colored grain. And the grain is more defined than pecan would be (softer grain).
I've seen that same multi colored grain in young mulberry trees, but I can't remember what the bark of a mature tree looks like (I guess I could run downstairs and check).
The straight grain and color does look like mulberry and mulberry does have a 'perfumey' smell, especially when burned in a fire. So that's my guess. Mulberrry
Does it occur in your area?

Nice bowls and workmanship, by the way. Is the whole bowl 3/4" thick or is that just the rim?


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

https://www.google.com/search?q=bla...jfVKufCouxggSv6IGgCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ7Ak&dpr=1


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Oops, sorry to be long in replying here! Lots of good thoughts, ideas, and discussion. I looked at the link mako just provided with the discussion on locust. We do have locust in the area and I chopped down a few as a kid but seems like it was a very light colored wood. I want to try some anyway so I may cut one. They do have huge thorns! Pecan? Ewwww, maybe a young one. I'm turning wood from a mature pecan right now and the heartwood definitely is darker but more uniform and not as many different colors. The bark is also quite different....but I'm not sure what it is so I'm not completely saying no to anything right now  The pecan I'm turning also smells different....wouldn't characterize either as smelling like a horse though! Osage Orange? I think they grow a little further north of us but some could grow in the area. I have never worked Bois Da'Arc but I understand it's really hard wood. I would characterize this unknown as being much softer than pecan (as an easy example). We do have mulberry in the area....hope it's not mulberry because then I would not be able to cut another one just for turning the wood 
I turn most of my pieces green so it helps to keep the rim a bit thicker than the rest to reduce cracking. The rim is wide but the rest of the bowl is thinner. If the weather is decent tomorrow, I'll try to check the area this tree came from and match the bark with a standing tree. Maybe I should take the landowner a bowl from this stuff anyway since he was so kind to share it with me.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

John, Bois d'Arc (_Maclura pomifera_) and Osage Orange are the same species. When it is completely dry it is rather hard to turn, but not more than dry white oak or dry live oak and definitely not as hard as cocobolo. Turned green, Bois d'Arc turns quite nicely. The wood pictured is not _Maclura pomifera._ If you ever get a chance to turn some that is green, you will remember it well. When freshly cut, the wood has a beautiful yellow color, but what is most surprising is that the dust and shavings are such an intensely bright yellow that it is practically as bright as yellow Day-Glo paint. The fluorescent appearance is rather short lived as the wood is very photochemically reactive and soon goes to dull yellow and then to brown. The beautiful yellowish color of anything that you turn from Bois d'Arc will gradually turn brown even if you apply a finish that has UV inhibitors.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/iowa_trees/trees/honeylocust.html


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

I forgot to mention that yesterday I roughed out a large sycamore bowl about thirteen inches diameter from a half log and the wood and bark look very much like what you have pictured. The wood shavings have1 a slight pungent smell when being turned. I coated it with Anchorseal and will let it dry for several months before I turn it to final form.

I will try to get a picture later today.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Correction, the wood is elm ... not sycamore as I stated in the previous post. Here are a coupe shots of the rough out. It is 13" diameter. The wall thickness is 1¼". The white streaks are from Anchorseal that is still wet.










Flipped the bowl over so that you could get a better view of the grain colors and pattern.










The batk on this piece was rather thick and rough. It looks like the bark is much thinner on your log so it might not be elm.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks Bill, but the photos didn't come through....I'll check back on those. Elm might be right...my forestry major friend thought that might be it but he also hasn't gotten to see it first hand. He said elm has a zig-zag vascular pattern but I haven't been able to see that.

It's definitely not mulberry. Oddly enough, while I was in the area visiting with the guy who I got the original wood from, I notice another yard along the highway had logs showing some nice end color. The homeowner said it was mulberry (no doubt since he described the fruit) and gave me some. I just rough-turned a small bowl from it. Mulberry looks very similar to the wood in my original post on initial examination but has a little different bark, the grain has less annular color variation, and the aroma is significantly different.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Things are behaving strangely.

At first, I forgot to add the pictures so I edited the post to add them and they showed up only as links. Every time that I tried to edit my post, everything disappeared. I finally was able to see the pictures, but when you mentioned that you could not see them I figured that I might just have them in cache on my computer. So, refreshed the screen and sure enough ... no pictures.

Hopefully, they will show up this time.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Bill, perhaps some holdover from this past Friday the 13th?

The photos did come through this time....that should be a nice looking bowl when you get done! Certainly could be the same wood as what I have.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

JohnInTexas said:


> Bill, perhaps some holdover from this past Friday the 13th?
> 
> The photos did come through this time....that should be a nice looking bowl when you get done! Certainly could be the same wood as what I have.


Does it have a slight pungent odor? Not quite the same as post oak, but sort of similar.

The Anchorseal makes the wood look slightly darker than when it is dry. I didn't put Anchorseal on the tenon so you can see what the wood looks like when dry.


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## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

I vote for elm too. Looks like elm bark to me. Elm varies a lot in my experience and there are several species to boot. It's pretty, regardless.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

The op stated in his third post that the tree has huge thorns.This leaves out elm ,pecan and ash as some have believed it to be.


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## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

mako1 said:


> The op stated in his third post that the tree has huge thorns.This leaves out elm ,pecan and ash as some have believed it to be.


 I'm not sure if he was referring to the tree in question when he mentioned thorns or was just acknowledging that locus trees do grow there and that they do have big thorns. Maybe he will clarify.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

mako1 said:


> Black locust or honey locust.Somtimes called osage orange in Texas.


 Texas is a pretty big place and no doubt somebody has made that mistake. If you'll kindly provide the name. we'll see that he gets returned to Illinois until he learns to properly identify trees. :laughing:

I've heard people use several of the common names for _Maclura pomifera_, most frequently Bois d'Arc, Horse Apple, and Osage Orange.

The OP was stating that he is familiar with honey locust and black locust and that they have thorns. The wood in question doesn't have thorns or else he would have said so.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

JohnInTexas said:


> ...my forestry major friend thought that might be it but he also hasn't gotten to see it first hand. He said elm has a zig-zag vascular pattern but I haven't been able to see that....


It is a bit subtle, but if you look at the end grain with a magnifying glass, you ought to be able to pick up the irregular zig-zag pattern. If I get a chance, I will get a macro shot that shows the grain structure.


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## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

Bill Boehme said:


> I've heard people use several of the common names for Maclura pomifera, most frequently Bois d'Arc, Horse Apple, and Osage Orange.


Add to that list: Hedge or Hedge Apple when you go north into Oklahoma and into the Plains states.


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Before we go too far astray here, I was referring to Locust when I mentioned thorns. The wood we are identifying didn't have thorns so I'm quite certain it wasn't a locust. I feel pretty good about the elm ID. I am a bit swamped with other wood right now and haven't turned another piece of the elm (?) lately. When I do, maybe I can put some fresh cut pieces under a hand lens and look at the vascular bundles.

A detour into some other woods we have briefly touched on here...I'm currently working with some mulberry. It looks like it will be beautiful. I hope to get one more short log from the stump this coming weekend. Another wood turner had dibs on most of the wood....good for him for saving the wood! I'm also turning some fresh-cut pecan. It has warped a bit during the drying process (turning the piece to 1/2 inch and then final finishing after about a week at 40% humidity). It is pretty wood and I have three pieces now that include the heartwood. One is finished, one is dry and ready for a final shape, and the last bowl was from a "Y" in a limb and is drying very well. I know I'm deviating from my original topic here but I believe we have a good ID. Thanks to all who posted their two-cents worth!


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## Porcupossum (Feb 13, 2015)

*Bois D'Arc*

Shavings from Osage Orange match the Powermatic!

/Users/nileswilliamson/Pictures/iPhoto Library.photolibrary/Masters/2014/11/30/20141130-183844/IMG_3660.JPG


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## JohnInTexas (Apr 1, 2014)

Update on this thread...I took some of the wood from this discussion to some forestry folks at Stephen F. Austin State University and they first said osage orange like some of you fist suggested. Then they said it wasn't right for several reasons. We discussed elm but they said the bark wasn't right for elm....helps to see it in person I suppose. Their ID was redbud (Cercis canadensis). It was a rather large redbud but that's almost certainly the correct ID. I stopped and compared the bark with a rather large redbud in someone's yard and it was a very good match. I decided not to chop the tree down to verify a cross-section of the wood :>)


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

I have some redbud that I cut into thin planks several years ago and it does look just like the wood in your photos. The thing that threw me off is the size.

Generally, redbud is a small understory tree and it is rare to find one that is greater than about five inches in diameter. There are several species of elm and I don't know enough to do an ID by the bark.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

mako1 said:


> Black locust or honey locust.Somtimes called osage orange in Texas.


Mako
Osage Orange is the horse apple tree or boise de arc. (Board ark). 
Honey Locust is not the same thing. It is just Honey Locust, sometimes confused with Hawthorn tree.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Toolman50 said:


> Mako
> Osage Orange is the horse apple tree or boise de arc. (Board ark).
> Honey Locust is not the same thing. It is just Honey Locust, sometimes confused with Hawthorn tree.


Thanks! I had mentioned it in an *earlier post*, but it never hurts to to confirm information. I'm not sure where he got his egregious misinformation, but being a lifelong Texan, I can say positively that neither black locust nor honey locust are ever known as osage orange. Furthermore, black locust and honey locust are very different from one another in appearance. Granted, there are people everywhere who couldn't tell yuou the difference between a pine and an oak, but I wouldn't consider them as being an authoritative source.


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