# If you had to do it over again...



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm just wondering, knowing what you know now, what tools / equipment would you have not purchased, but instead purchased a different make / model, or not purchased that tool / type at all?

In my case, I would have to say...

#1. Ryobi BTS-21 Table Saw. It's not a bad saw, and actually is quite accurate which is surprising. HOWEVER, the lack of miter slots ticks me off to no end, not to mention the capacity of this saw is just, well, lacking. Knowing my budgetary restrictions, I would have had to have kept my table saw purchase under $500.00, and I REALLY want a riving knife. The ONLY make / models I am aware of that fit that bill are a used Ryobi BT3x00, and the rebadged BT3x00 stuffed on a folding stand, the Craftsman 21829. With a miter slot accessory table by the way. 

#2. Black and Decker Firestorm FS1200RP Plunge Router... This router had a VERY non standard base, which makes attaching standard guide bushings a PITA, AND...
#3. Ryobi R161 fixed base router. This router only accepts 1/4" router bits but otherwise has been a fine router, it certainly paid for itself many times over.

The money for those two machines would have been MUCH better spent on a Hitachi KM12VC combo kit, and the leftover could have bought a couple of 1/2" shank router bits. I ended up buying a KM12VC, and having a second would be very useful for keeping a bit in a motor and swapping back and forth... Say for doing dovetails and such...

#4. Sears Craftsman 6 piece carbide 1/4" shank router bits...
#5. Skil 30 piece carbide 1/4" shank router bits...

Instead I should have gone with... MLCS 66 piece 1/2" shank carbide router bits. More profiles, better results. I REALLY like the MLCS bits I have so far...

#6. Ryobi AP1301 planer. HD was clearancing out the AP1300 when I got this, and I got the wrong box. Since the AP1300 is out of production, I would have to go with the Ridgid R4330. Very similar in a LOT of ways to my Ryobi, which is NOT a bad thing, BUT, the Ridgid has the infeed / outfeed tables that my Ryobi lacks from the factory, and that I had to add.

#7. Shop Vac Hangup. Specifically the model sold by Lowes. The 5HP Shop Vac Hangup Pro that Ace Hardware carries has the 2.5" hose, and while it has a teeny tiny 5 gallon tank, it makes a good suction device for a Thien Cyclone, a 30 gallon drum fits right in the space I was concerned with back then. I ended up with a Ridgid 12 gallon wet / dry vac, and do not regret it at all.

#8. Central Machinery Model #32208 14" 4speed band saw. NOT that this is a bad band saw, but a month after I got this saw, I saw a Grizzly GO555X go up on my local craigslist for less than I paid for the CM cheapie. I could just puke... I have modded my 32208 with the roller guides, fence, riser block etc... it is a good cutting band saw, and I do NOT regret owning it, but that Grizz has some drool factor going for it...

Overall, I am happy with my shop, and I do not think I would replace anything I currently have except for the table saw. The routers and bits are going to end up simply added on to...


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

Other than a cheap table saw, $79, Lowes house
brand, opening day special.

It went about a year and lost the motor, cost over
$100 for a replacement so I tossed it.

Most of my tools are passed down stuff so I can't
complain. The rest are bargain table or pawn shop.

I have a Skil jig saw I hate, should have got a better
one, but I don't use it that much.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Oh yeah. I do have one of those Skil Jig Saws...

It works. I rarely have any use for it. Don't regret owning it. Not sure how much "better" a different jig saw would be.


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## Tweegs (Sep 8, 2007)

Speaking of Jig saws, I have a B&D that was the first power WW tool I ever owned. Bought it around 1985. Still works but gathers more dust than it spits out.

Probably the tool I regret buying most is a radial arm saw. It is a Ridgid, but I don't think the brand matters.
Could have bought a very good sliding compound miter saw and had money left over.
It is rare that I use it for anything more than cross cutting to length. If the piece is small enough, I'll use the table saw/sled instead.


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

About the jig saw, I bought a high end Makita and
it lasted one day. I was cutting 1 1/2 ply, 3/4 laminated
with a carbon fiber core and it stripped its gears.

I bought the skil to use until the Makita came back
from repairs. When I got it back it lasted one day
again, got a refund after several days of debate.

The old $20 Skil, Wal-Mart, is still going, I just don't
like it, it shakes every thing in the shop!

Sorry to get OT!:no:


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

No need to be sorry. Actually you are quite right... I absolutely HATE the Makita quarter sheet sander I have. A former coworker loaned it to me, quit the next day, and never showed up or called me again, and the phone # I had for him was bad. 

When I used it, I know why he walked away from it. That thing will vibrate your arm off, without doing much if any actual sanding...


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I have stuck to Craftsman for my more expensive tools.. Consequently have had no bad experiences with the tools. A couple of times I have wished I had an upscale model. However, my finances at the time and practicality did not permit buying a more expensive piece of equipment.

My biggest problem is lack of space. Having to make do in part of a garage just does not make for good work setups.

G


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## Howard Ferstler (Sep 27, 2007)

dbhost said:


> I'm just wondering, knowing what you know now, what tools / equipment would you have not purchased, but instead purchased a different make / model, or not purchased that tool / type at all?
> 
> In my case, I would have to say...
> 
> ...


I have the earlier Ryobi BTS-20 table saw and feel that it is a tad better than the BTS-21 replacement. The fence seems better, for instance, at least after glancing at it in the store. However, I have not checked the new saw all that closely. Maybe it is an improvement. However, the BTS-20 does have workable miter gauge slots that I mainly use with my feather-guide device.

I also have that same Firestorm plung router you mention and actually like it OK. I particularly like its dust-scavenging design. I also have the Ryobi fixed-base router (two of them, actually), but my version is the 1800 series with a 1/2-inch collet. I like those, too.

I have a bunch of Hickory router bits (both 1/2 and 1/4-inch shanks, and they seem fine. I find that I only use three or four different profiles, anyway. I also have scads of drill bits and one thing I have that has been very useful is my Drill Doctor 500X bit sharpener. Nice item to have if you like to drill a lot.

I have the Roybi AP1300 thickness planer and I like it pretty much. My only beef is that Home Depot no longer carries the knives. Well, Ryobi sells them direct for $41 a set. A bit steep, I think. The advantage of the AP1300 over the AP1301 goes beyond the lack of infeed and outfeed tables. It also has an infeed cut-depth gauge that gives you an accurate idea of actually how much you will be planing off of a board ready to insert into the device.

I have a Ridgid 14-inch band saw and I did a review of it on this site's review section a while back. I had to diddle with it quite a bit to get it up to snuff, but now it works really well.

It is not so much the quality of one's tools that matters as much as it is the skill used to make items with those tools.

Howard Ferstler


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I would have skipped the Delta 36-600 TS and bought a Craftsman 22124 hybrid for a first saw. Skipped the 8" Griz DP and bought at least a 12" first. Skipped the Oldham and Vermont American blades and bought a WWII 30T TK, the B&D jigsaw, CMan CMS, and CMan 1/4" router, and gotten better examples of each of those tools. I would have skipped the MLCS 15 pc router bits and bought the 1/2" 7 pc Whitesides. Wish I'd skipped my Ryobi sander and started with the PC. I'd have skipped any biscuit cutter at all and bought a router bit for biscuits. I'd have skipped the big Freud FT2000 router and bought either the FT3000 (not available at the time) or the MW5625 I have now. 

My Delta 22-580 planer is a good tool but it has enough quirks that I wish I'd gotten something else....sometimes I wish I'd kept my 22-560...it doesn't leave quite as good of a finish but the DC was less finicky and the rollers stayed clean longer. Even though I really don't have the room and my 6" Griz is a nice 6" jointer, I wished I'd grabbed a relatively short bed 8" jointer instead....I think Griz or Sunhill had one with a 65" bed a few years ago I'd also have bought a cannister for the DC sooner. 

*I'd keep* my Shop Fox cabinet saw, Freud FT1700, MW5625, and Hitachi M12VC routers, my $144 Harbor Freight 13" DP (surprisingly good), Grizzly 1029 DC, Ridgid OSS, Craftsman 12" BS, Bosch jigsaw, Whiteside, Freud, and Infinity bits, Forrest WWII, DW7642 50T, Infinity Super General 40T and Infinity 60T Hi-ATB blades, Incra and Osborne miter gauges, and Kreg pocket hole jig.


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

I was using my $29.00 B&D circular saw one day....cutting a $55.00 piece of red oak 3/4" plywood. Even with a clamped up straight edge, it strayed. I know now it was the blade, but I switched the whole affair to the other side, and the same thing happened again. 

My 12 y/o son heard some interesting vernaculars that day as I threw the whole ****ing saw, extension cord and all, all the way down the driveway and out into the street. 



I'm back on my medicine now....

smitty


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

knotscott said:


> I would have skipped the Delta 36-600 TS and bought a Craftsman 22124 hybrid for a first saw. Skipped the 8" Griz DP and bought at least a 12" first. Skipped the Oldham and Vermont American blades and bought a WWII 30T TK, the B&D jigsaw, CMan CMS, and CMan 1/4" router, and gotten better examples of each of those tools. I would have skipped the MLCS 15 pc router bits and bought the 1/2" 7 pc Whitesides. With I'd skipped my Ryobi sander and started with the PC. I'd have skipped any biscuit cutter. My Delta 22-580 planer is a good tool but it has enough quirks that I wish I'd gotten something else. Even though I really don't have the room and my 6" Griz is a nice 6" jointer, I wished I'd grabbed a relatively short bed 8" jointer instead....I think Griz or Sunhill had one with a 65" bed a few years ago I'd also have bought a cannister for the DC sooner.
> 
> *I'd keep* my Shop Fox cabinet saw, Freud FT1700, MW5625, and Hitachi M12VC routers, my $144 Harbor Freight 13" DP (surprisingly good), Grizzly 1029 DC, Ridgid OSS, Craftsman 12" BS, Bosch jigsaw, Whiteside, Freud, and Infinity bits, Forrest WWII, DW7642 50T, Infinity Super General 40T and Infinity 60T Hi-ATB blades, Incra and Osborne miter gauges, and Kreg pocket hole jig.


Funny you should mention the MLCS bits. I have some Freuds, I like them okay enough, but those MLCS bits have been dead on every time I have used them. Only problems I have had with them have been stupid user induced.... (rocking the router while rabbeting, and getting some wierd patterns..)

And while I know there are much nicer planers than my AP1301, to be blunt, I like the thing. Snipe is a rare occourence these days. Not saying it doesn't happen, just not very often...

And we are not even going to talk about the Vermont American drill press jig. It seemed like a good idea at the time... WRONG. That worked almost as well as the General Tools doweling jig... ICK!


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## Davet (Nov 16, 2007)

Watch out dbhost your on your way in what you indicated
me to be awhile back ... A tool snob...  :laughing:


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

dbhost said:


> Funny you should mention the MLCS bits. I have some Freuds, I like them okay enough, but those MLCS bits have been dead on every time I have used them. Only problems I have had with them have been stupid user induced.... (rocking the router while rabbeting, and getting some wierd patterns..)


My MLCS bits were fine for the price...no real complaints...they're as good or better than most other mid-priced imports but aren't at the same level as the Infinity/Whitesides, etc. I broke one (prolly my fault) and the others dulled out ~ 3 years... any bit will dull eventually but the Whitesides take longer, perform a little better and are worth sharpening. MLCS are still on the "buy list" for some applications....good service and free s/h too. In hind sight I would have preferred to take the step to the higher end cutters from the start. Same is true of my saw blades. Got it right the 2nd time around! :thumbsup: (it just cost more in the long run! :blink


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Unfortunately, you might be right... 

I dunno.

I still like my Ryobi sanders, my Ryobi planer works great for my needs and while I wish it had infeed / outfeed support tables, since I built my own, I am happy with it, and my Central Machinery band saw does exactly what I want a band saw to do... I wanted the Grizz GO555X but the cost difference new was just too much for me, because I wanted the riser block kit and some good blades to boot. Shipping from Grizzly kind of hurts, and honestly, with the addition of the roller guides, and micro adjustable fence, I don't see a reason to have the grizz now other than the cool factor. Getting the grizz for what I paid for the Central Machinery would have been nice...

The Drill Press jig has suffered from my less than gentle use, and the aluminum castings aren't as sturdy as one would hope... I will most likely replace it with a HF floor model, or a good used floor model drill press. Other than the sliding miter table, I actually like my Ryobi table saw... It cuts accurately, but jigs / sleds for it require a LOT of extra design thought than if I had miter slots to rely on.

If the B&D router had a regular base which I could mount guide bushings in, I would be happy with it, as well as the Ryobi R161 if it could accept 1/2" shank bits. The Skil bits actually work well, and have a variety of good profiles, but I am concerned about the 1/4" shank is all. I will probably keep them for smaller scale work along with the Ryobi router. The Craftsman bits, I bought for one specific job, and I shouldn't have done that. I really only needed the 1/4" straight bit. I should have just bought the bit I needed.

I guess I don't use my router bits often enough to dull them out. My Craftsman bits are 10 years old, and aside from the fact I busted one most likely due to stupid user error, they are as sharp as the day I bought them...


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## sweensdv (Mar 3, 2008)

I'd have to say that my Craftsman 10 CMS would be my pick. When I bought it, it was one of the first CMS's available with a laser, which turned out to be useless. It's very difficult to make an accurate bevel cut with this saw also. Overall, it's a POC and was a big waste of money. It totally soured me on Craftsman products and I'll never by another Craftsman tool that has a tail or is battery powered.


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## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

I stick with old USA made machines, or German engineering. I can`t think of very many things I regret buying. I did waste money on sand paper...untill I found Norton. A cheap compass, bad pencils, a Veritis jig for burnishing a scraper! Wait!...it`s all coming back to me...a jig saw attachment for a RA saw. Quick grip clamps. Wolverine shoes...made in China. A Stanley socket set...the sockets are OK, but the rachets s___! Also made in you guested it... Rick


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

What an excellent idea! What wouldn't ya buy again... Brilliant. 

Well, mine would be the GMC drill press. I really shouldn't complain because it's done everything that I ask of it. But I saw the oscillating Shop Fox drill press in a catalog, 2 months after I bought mine (within about $50). For some crazy reason the GMC hasn't worked quite as good since :laughing:! Funny how that works, ehh?

Like I said, the GMC has been fine. But I do use the drill press to sand quite a bit...


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

> But I do use the drill press to sand quite a bit...


Picked these up at Harbor Freight, love them, use the
old 3" sanding belts and they work fine.

They are flat on the bottom so you can get them right
down on the table. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35455


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

In all honesty, the tools I have today are mostly pretty adequate for the work I do. Except for the blasted roller stands. It's hard to justify shelling out a couple hundred for really good ones, so I bought various brands in the $30-$40 range. They're all problematic in one way or another. 

I have a Jet bench top drill press which is not so great, but it works. 

I HAVE had tools in the past which were more trouble than help. My old Craftsman router and belt sander, which I'd gotten as a teen ager, for example. The height adjustment on the router was done by tightening a thumb screw into the motor housing, causing scratches, scrapes, and depressions in the housing. Eventually it would not hold tight reliable. The belt sander, well, suffice it to say that when I first got it, I went through 3 of them that would not track to save your life. The 4th one tracked ok, but wasn't very stable in use. Long gone now. 

An old B & D jig saw, which vibrated so much it was hard to see a line, let alone follow it. (but it was only $1 at a yard sale) I now have a reconditioned Makita which works pretty well.

Stanley combination squares. When I got my Bridge City Tool Works combo square, I finally realized what accurate measuring was all about!

Oh, and I guess I could include my Craftsman band saw. I bought it because it had belonged to an old friend who died of cancer. His daughter was selling it and I was looking for an old used delta 14". But she offered it to me for $80, and since it had been Walt's, and I wasn't having any luck finding the Delta, I got it. So I don't really count it among my tools. It's sort of a memento, more or less. And I so rarely need a band saw anyway. Good thing too, because the darn thing shakes so badly I could tie a jar of cream to it and it would be churned into butter in about a minute.

On the other side, I have 2 PC routers, 3 PC sanders, an Omnijig, a 16" Makita planer, an old 4" Homecraft/Rockwell jointer, an old Delta contractor's table saw, a basic Makita chop saw, and an assortment of odd and end hand tools, drills, etc., all of which serve me well and faithfully.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Okay, I admit it, I used my Skil Jig saw this week. After probably 8 months in its storage bag (my addition) I dug it out to complete one side of an indented curve for a Thien Cyclone Separator I am working on, I just couldn't get it fully done on the band saw... It worked well enough for what I needed! 

I should mention in all fairness, the Ryobi AP1301, once set up with infeed / outfeed supports on a stand, works great! My fuss is that I HAD to set that up in the first place. I have put this planer through some pretty nasty stuff, including planing down what once was waterbed sides while reclaiming lumber for projects...


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Space, the final frontier. My biggest regret is working in a shoebox for so many years. Most of my tools are adequate for the job, and those that are not can be replaced.

Gerry


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