# what makes a good chisel?



## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## Corbin3388 (Jan 22, 2011)

Same thing that makes a good knife, the edge. It's all about keeping an edge

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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

There is always pride in making and using your own tools! That's what I'd do!

Or you could look around for used chisels. 

Or you could buy some Irwins at HD; I hear they stay sharp pretty well. 

Or you could spend big money on pretty ones.


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## Possumpoint (Oct 13, 2011)

Take a look at the Narex Classic Bevel Chisels at say Lee Valley tools for example. A set of 7 very good chisels that hold their edge well is just under $70.00. The bevel edge is very good for cutting medium to large dovetails. A dovetail chisel with sharper bevel is better for cutting smaller dovetails. 

My set of Narex hold their edge better then the Irwin's and Marples I gave away. Will say that my antique Stanley's hold an edge best.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

carpenter547 said:


> ok excluding brand and handle shape what makes a chisel good or bad?
> 
> what angle for the sides ?
> what angle for the front cutting edge?
> ...


The Edge but more Important the Mechanic behind it.

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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

*well from what i gathered so far...*

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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Some of us buy our chisels because it is not cost effective for us to set up a forge and heat treating facilities. 

If you check around enough, you will find that planes and saws are also expensive. There are folks that enjoy making their own. 

We have lots of options to equiping our shops. Shop built, used, and an incredible range of prices for new stuff. We do what turns our crank and what is affordable for us.


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

carpenter547 said:


> well said wrangler about what turns our crank.
> and yes im intending to make my own saws


You should write a thread on how you Hand Forged that Bowie Knife when you were in the Jungle

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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

MastersHand said:


> You should write a thread on how you Hand Forged that Bowie Knife when you were in the Jungle
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


it wasn't a bowie knife sheesh... it was a machete.:thumbsup:


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

As you may know, there are many different types of chisels as well as different styles. One thing that is important is knowing the correct bevel to sharpen the chisels. Most of the bench style chisels available are close to A2, R 60-62, such as Sheffield steel. These chisels often come with a 25 degree primary bevel. If you sharpen at this primary bevel, the edge will fold like tin and you will be convinced you bought junk. If you sharpen to a secondary angle, 30 for softwoods, 35 for hardwoods, you'll think you have a different chisel and will be quite happy. The Irwin/Marples that some folks throw out will perform as well as most other high end chisels if sharpened correctly.

When it comes to paring chisels, ones that you won't be hammering on or prying with, you may want a harder steel, like 01. You can sharpen to a 25 degree bevel with this harder steel but the compromise is that they will be more brittle and a little harder to sharpen. It's not that you can't do paring work with more blunt edges and softer steel but the lower angle does give a finer slice.

As far as I know, Lie Nielsen is the only manufacturer offering both A2 and O1 chisels. The info I stated above is on their web site. I think Blue Spruce chisels may be O1 but I don't know for sure and they are quite expensive and not available individually. For most folks, there are many mid priced chisels that if sharpened correctly will perform nicely on a variety of tasks. I have many vintage and antique chisels and the same thing holds for those, they won't hold an edge at 25 degrees. There are a couple of exceptions but I'm not telling the names, too much competition on Ebay already.

Side bevels have more to do with getting into tight spots, like dovetails. Mortice chisels usually don't have side bevels since you are looking for strength to hold up to heavy hammering and prying. If you are cutting European style dovetails with the very fine pins, you need a very narrow 1/8" - 3/16" chisel with steep side bevels slightly less than the ratio angle you use and I haven't seen any made by any manufacturer.


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## Lancer33 (Dec 9, 2011)

S-7, CPM-3V, 5160, and 1084 would also be good candidates. One thing to keep in mind is that with any steel heat treatment is possibly more important than the alloy. If I were making my own I think 5160 would be my choice with a high 50's RC.


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

You can build a small forge for next to nothing with mostly items that you should have around your shop. My brother spent some time trying to make his own throwing knives for a while and he built one that was similar to this website: http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/micro_forge/

The high-temp ceramic wool can be purchased in small amounts online. This aside, it is really just a coffee can, torch, and stand.


http://www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/mortise_chisels/


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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

Blue Spruce are A2...
What's this about them not being available individually? It's how I bought the ones I have....

Anyway... My own take on chisels...

The first key is to be brutally honest with yourself about WHAT you want to do with them.... It sounds simple enough - but if you don't know what you are going to do with them - you will always have the wrong ones.... There are 10-million different types...

For example... cleaning out dovetails takes really fine angles on the sides - so you can get down into those pointy corners... Making mortises takes very carefully squared sides - as the sides help you establish the straight mortise.... You will make terrible mortises with a fine dovetailing chisel... and you can't make dovetails with the fat, square mortising chisel...

Paring usually takes long chisels... where a lot of other work inside of furniture pieces takes very short chisels... There are "Carving" chisels and there are bench chisels... they are all made for different things....

So... This takes me to my first bit of advice....

Buy the 1 exactly right chisel specifically for the job you are doing... Don't bother with a whole set...

My 2nd piece of advice is to buy the best one you can... Don't fool yourself thinking you can reharden a set of Harbor Freight China jobbers or that.... $40 - $60 on 1 chisel sounds like a bunch... but it's worth it when it makes a job go 50x faster...

Along with this is... Don't underestimate the amount of work that can go into tuning up an old, used up, beater chisel... If you are into that sort of thing - great... but you can easily spend hours and hours and hours on old rust - only to find out that someone used it for a fireplace poker and it won't take an edge.... Other times you get lucky, though.... I have sworn off of old rust (Although I say this - I probably couldn't bring myself to pass on an old Sorby or Berg...)

On the question of Steel... It all comes down to your sharpening equipment... A2 and HSS are nearly impossible to sharpen well with conventional stones - although their edges last quite a bit longer... O1 and 1095 take a wicked edge pretty easily... Decide for yourself if you are ready for the expense of diamond plates and lapping films or if you just want to use normal stones... 

Thanks


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Home Depot carries the "Buck Brothers" brand of chisels. If you want good chisels without having to think about it, the Buck brand is a good choice. IMHO, the Bucks are better than my real original Marples. (i.e. Before Marples was acquired by Record and then Irwin.)

There is a secret about chisels. Look at the back of the chisel and check for a Rockwell hardness test. It's three dimples or dots in the back of the chisel. You won't find these three dots on every chisel of the brand but perhaps one in 30 or 40. 

What the Rockwell hardness test means is that someone at the factory cared enough to check the hardness of the chisel. Key words "cared enough". The evidence of the test indicates that there is a decent quality control program at the factory and that the chisels are probably good quality.


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## Lancer33 (Dec 9, 2011)

Keep in mind that there is much more to heat treating and "tempering" or drawing than just hitting it with a torch and trying to get it the right color. O-1 has to be oil quenched usually in a bath of peanut oil. A-2 has to be heat treated in a controlled atmosphere oven, or at the least it must be wrapped in stainless foil designed for the job. If it is brought to temp while exposed to atmosphere it will de-carburize displaying a carbon ash on the surface....this is not good. It is possible to heat treat a very small section with a torch if you have no other choice but the final quality of the tool (chisel) will reflect the quality of the heat treatment it has received.

A-2: 
*PREHEAT PRIOR TO HARDENING*
Preheat slowly to 1350-1450°F and hold at this temperature until part is uniformly heated.
*HARDENING*
After thorough preheating, heat to 1750-1800°F. Hold the workpiece at the hardening temperature until it is completely and uniformly heated.
*QUENCHING*
A2 is an air hardening steel and will develop full hardness on cooling in still air. To avoid scaling of the workpiece surface, controlled atmosphere or vacuum furnaces are recommended. If these types of furnaces are not available, salt baths or wrapping the part in stainless steel foil will provide a degree of surface protection in the hardening process, Parts should be allowed to cool to 150°F, or to where they can be held in the bare hand, and then temper immediately.



> i found a web site that sells flat and round stock of appropriate size to make them it has o1 and a2. it comes annealed easy to shape with the tools i have. as far as tempering to rc60 ish goes 450 degrees is "straw yellow" that is a temp that is acheivable in an oven or any back yard half attempt at a forge. propane torches get that hot too.


This steel must be heat treated prior to tempering.


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## Lancer33 (Dec 9, 2011)

NP, wish you luck and hope that you achieve the results you desire. Was not trying to dissuade you, simply speaking from 30+ years as a tool maker working with these steels.


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## Lancer33 (Dec 9, 2011)

Pick my brain for what? You have discarded the advice already offered and appear to believe you are correct. Best of luck.


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

It sounds like you have some pretty good ideas of what you want... Why not do it and tell us what worked best for you..... That's what I would personally like to hear... :thumbsup: ... because I want to make a couple chisels too....

For myself - unless you have a kiln of some sort or another - I would go with O1. You can HT with an Oxy torch and a can of old oil.... Not to mention that buying 1" wide x 1/8" thick stock is pretty easy and cheap.... Now - you probably only need to HT the last 1" or so of the Sharp End - that way you keep warp under control.... You could knock it out cheap and quick...

An idea I have been fooling with is brazing HSS onto the end of a cheaper handle.... Say you could braze a 6" long piece of 1" wide x 1/8" thick M2 onto a stub from an old handle...... Then - sharpen it up and have the massive abrasion resistance that comes along with it...

Shoot... I have a Nicholson "Handy File" that I plan to regrind and reharden to use as a chisel - if I can get it to work.... If I can sort this out - then it's perfect... because it's already a junker file :smile:

Thanks


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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

So... Being the curious sort - I went ahead and bought myself a piece of O1 to try making a nice, long blade paring chisel...

Price wise - it was like $17.00 for an 18" long piece of 3/4" wide x 5/32" thick.... This is worth maybe 2 chisels - so figure close to $8.00 each in material for a fairly thin chisel blade....

This really isn't much of a price advantage vs buying cheap Chinese chisels... so if you are beating up and killing them out at the job site - then it's just going to be cheaper to just continue to buy rather than make.... unless you are talking about beating up expensive, specialized chisels....

Now - I suppose if you have a way to keep from beating them up so bad - but you still need specialized chisels, then it totally makes sense to make them up yourself rather than buying.... You can HT and grind up a special 1-off chisel blade for some certain job and have it in use the next day - rather than special ordering from Switzerland or Japan....

Thanks


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

Shoot - I just bought the steel on Wednesday - haven't even got a chance to do anything beyond open up the paper and take a look at it.... MMMMmmm shiny!

In terms of sources - check around at the local industrial and metal supply places... Most towns over 10K people will have a place that sells steel and stuff.... They will sell tool steel pieces in standard sizes that you can just go buy... No need to mail order it.

HT with O1 is straight forward enough... All you need is a good Oxy torch with a rosebud, a couple fire bricks, a magnet on a stick, and a gallon of old, used oil..... Theoretically, you can do it with a good propane torch and some fire bricks to hold the heat in....

You heat it up till the magnet won't stick to it (when it gets cherry red - you tap tap it with the magnet to check...) Give it a couple minutes after the magnet doesn't stick in the heat, and then dunk it in the oil and swish it around... Then - temper it to your preferred hardness in your kitchen oven....

I am making a Paring chisel - NO hammering... so I am going to run it a bit harder... maybe 62-64 range rather than 58 range on a "Bench" chisel.... The tempering instructions are right on the side of the paper stuck to the steel I bought....

But as you can see - this is a good reason to think about what you specifically want.... For example - if you are always dulling chisels from working on Plywood, MDF, and stuff like that - you could braze a piece of M3 High speed steel onto the end of a Cheapo chisel - and then you would have a super-duper abrasion resistant chisel.... but you need diamond or Carbide stones to sharpen it.... I have done that with a couple plane irons.... and their edge lasts about 10x as long as carbon steel in hard, abrasive woods.... but it doesn't do as well planing soft woods like Spruce and Pine....

Thanks


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## user27606 (Feb 6, 2012)

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