# I need help



## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

There is a 12" jointer for sale and the guy is asking 500 it is in really bad shape and needs bearings and a motor on top of it but I don't have 500 to spend how would you guys recommend I try and get this guy to sell/give/trade it to me


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Offer him a trade. Worst he can do is say no. Can you post a picture of it?


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> Offer him a trade. Worst he can do is say no. Can you post a picture of it?


 yes I will try to


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> Offer him a trade. Worst he can do is say no. Can you post a picture of it?


Here you go


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I believe it is a Cresent jointer (Early Rockwell). From the looks of it, it may not be worth 500 especially missing the guard. There has been a guy in Oklahoma that has been trying to sell one complete and in good working order off and on for more than two years. He wants about 2200.00 for it.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I believe it is a Cresent jointer (Early Rockwell). From the looks of it, it may not be worth 500 especially missing the guard. There has been a guy in Oklahoma that has been trying to sell one complete and in good working order off and on for more than two years. He wants about 2200.00 for it.


what would you say it is worth


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

does the motor work? even if you can be "that guy" on CL that offers a trade and somehow makes it work... you may end up with a boat anchor if you cant afford/find/make the replacement parts.

dang thing might be $200 in scrap iron...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

That's what I was thinking, the price of scrap iron. You are looking at hundreds of hours work and probably close to a grand in expenses by the time you buy a motor and have someone fabricate a guard. It will need at least a 3 hp motor.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

You must be near me. I saw that on CL over the weekend. The guy advertises it as "fully operational" lol somehow I think that's hardly the case. I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10' cattle prod


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> That's what I was thinking, the price of scrap iron. You are looking at hundreds of hours work and probably close to a grand in expenses by the time you buy a motor and have someone fabricate a guard. It will need at least a 3 hp motor.


 it is in better shape than the 4" delta Rockwell i bought over the summer that I restored so I don't mind a little work and it DOESNT have a motor


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> it is in better shape than the 4" delta Rockwell i bought over the summer that I restored so I don't mind a little work and it DOESNT have a motor


If you don't mind the work then go for it. I would rather see it fixed up then go to the scrap yard. Once fixed up it would make a really great machine. It has a seven foot long bed on it. What it will need is to be completely taken apart and the cast parts sandblasted. The amount of rust on it I would come back with an automotive epoxy primer. Then any unnecessary holes bondo and coat over the epoxy primer with Evercoat Featherfill primer. At this point you could go with an enamel or continue with automotive paint. Enamel would be a lot cheaper but the automotive paint would be a lot better. 

The machine will weigh roughly 1000 lbs. Do you have the means of loading and unloading it. If it's not rusted on you might be able to remove the tables to lighten it. 

If you join Vintage Machinery I believe there is a picture of the guard the machine is suppose to have. Here is the link. http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/CrescentJointerGuard.ashx

Originally the jointer probably had a 3 to 5 hp three phase motor. I believe to keep it authentic looking I would try to find an old repulsion motor but unless you are already using three phase try to find a single phase motor.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> If you don't mind the work then go for it. I would rather see it fixed up then go to the scrap yard. Once fixed up it would make a really great machine. It has a seven foot long bed on it. What it will need is to be completely taken apart and the cast parts sandblasted. The amount of rust on it I would come back with an automotive epoxy primer. Then any unnecessary holes bondo and coat over the epoxy primer with Evercoat Featherfill primer. At this point you could go with an enamel or continue with automotive paint. Enamel would be a lot cheaper but the automotive paint would be a lot better. The machine will weigh roughly 1000 lbs. Do you have the means of loading and unloading it. If it's not rusted on you might be able to remove the tables to lighten it. If you join Vintage Machinery I believe there is a picture of the guard the machine is suppose to have. Here is the link. http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/CrescentJointerGuard.ashx Originally the jointer probably had a 3 to 5 hp three phase motor. I believe to keep it authentic looking I would try to find an old repulsion motor but unless you are already using three phase try to find a single phase motor.


 thank you for the Input I offered him 200 and the guard will not be a problem for me as I can weld/fabricate one in my high schools shop


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Here is another link that might be helpful. It has more pictures of other crescent jointers. http://www.vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=224&tab=4


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

maple man said:


> thank you for the Input I offered him 200 and the guard will not be a problem for me as I can weld/fabricate one in my high schools shop


Well did he take $200 for it?

Don


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hawkeye10 said:


> Well did he take $200 for it? Don


 I am waiting on a reply


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

bauerbach said:


> ....
> dang thing might be $200 in scrap iron...


I was going to say the same thing LOL
I think a motor could be bought for a few hundred dollars, but i don't know about the knives or the rest of it.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> If you don't mind the work then go for it. I would rather see it fixed up then go to the scrap yard. Once fixed up it would make a really great machine. It has a seven foot long bed on it. What it will need is to be completely taken apart and the cast parts sandblasted. The amount of rust on it I would come back with an automotive epoxy primer. Then any unnecessary holes bondo and coat over the epoxy primer with Evercoat Featherfill primer. At this point you could go with an enamel or continue with automotive paint. Enamel would be a lot cheaper but the automotive paint would be a lot better. The machine will weigh roughly 1000 lbs. Do you have the means of loading and unloading it. If it's not rusted on you might be able to remove the tables to lighten it. If you join Vintage Machinery I believe there is a picture of the guard the machine is suppose to have. Here is the link. http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/CrescentJointerGuard.ashx Originally the jointer probably had a 3 to 5 hp three phase motor. I believe to keep it authentic looking I would try to find an old repulsion motor but unless you are already using three phase try to find a single phase motor.


 do you think I can put a 2hp 220 volt single phase motor on it to power it or will I have a hard time getting the power I need to joint 12" boards


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> do you think I can put a 2hp 220 volt single phase motor on it to power it or will I have a hard time getting the power I need to joint 12" boards


2hp is a little short in the drawers for a 12" planer. You could do it but I think you would feel the jointer slowing down facing wide hardwood and might have to make lighter cuts. I have a Northfield 12" jointer and it has a 3hp motor on it. I don't think I would want any less horse power. I wish mine had 5hp.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

How often do you plan to actually joint 12 inches wide? 2 hp is a little weak for 12 inches.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

for me, I know that thing would just never happen. thats a whole lot of time, money, logistics, sourcing, and risk that I wouldnt want to put forth.

will it be worth it in the end? who knows? with the shape it is in, I dont think anyone can say what issues it might be hiding. You'll atleast be in a few hundred dollars and 50 hours of your time with parts, sandblasting, ect before the gremlins have a chance to appear. theres no getting that money back either, shiny scrap isnt worth any more than rusty scrap.

I would run away personally, I think that thing could end up making a grizzly 12" look like a steal for 2grand before your done. If you know you have access to a CNC that could machine your replacement parts for material cost, maybe you have a chance...


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> for me, I know that thing would just never happen. thats a whole lot of time, money, logistics, sourcing, and risk that I wouldnt want to put forth. will it be worth it in the end? who knows? with the shape it is in, I dont think anyone can say what issues it might be hiding. You'll atleast be in a few hundred dollars and 50 hours of your time with parts, sandblasting, ect before the gremlins have a chance to appear. theres no getting that money back either, shiny scrap isnt worth any more than rusty scrap. I would run away personally, I think that thing could end up making a grizzly 12" look like a steal for 2grand before your done. If you know you have access to a CNC that could machine your replacement parts for material cost, maybe you have a chance...


 I have fears of hidden problems but my high school has a metal shop were I can do almost anything i need for it because me and my teacher get along really well


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> How often do you plan to actually joint 12 inches wide? 2 hp is a little weak for 12 inches.


 I am currently building a saw mill that can handle a log 28" in size so I plan on doing it fairly often


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

He is still yet to reply to my offer and i emailed him at 8:00 this morning and from my past emailing him about it he replys normally in 15 minutes any suggestion?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Sounds like he was insulted.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Sounds like he was insulted.


 that Is what I was thinking but idk


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Sounds like he was insulted.


 I made sure to tell him I did my research before I offered him anything


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

eh, offering $200 when he asked $500 is a big gap. Id say it was an insult but $200 is a gift for that thing IMO. He might come back in a month or 2 and see if your still interested.

Or maybe theres someone even crazier that will pay him, maybe a scrapper will go out and weigh it and pay up for it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

While you are waiting on the guy you might save your pennies and meet his price if you really want it.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would send him a breakdown of the cost of getting it working like, new motor, cutter head, bearings, guard, sandblasting, machining new parts, labor, powder coat paint job, and any other stuff that needs to be done.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> While you are waiting on the guy you might save your pennies and meet his price if you really want it.


 I know I was crazy to offer 200 but at 200 I could still make my money out of it in scrap at least but I don't need it at the price he is asking


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't think you would have come out alright at the salvage yard. Out of curiosity I looked up the value of scrap cast and they are paying six to eight cents a pound. If the machine weighed 1000lbs without the motor that would add up to eighty bucks.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> I would send him a breakdown of the cost of getting it working like, new motor, cutter head, bearings, guard, sandblasting, machining new parts, labor, powder coat paint job, and any other stuff that needs to be done.


IME, delusional sellers on CL cannot be reasoned with.

Maybe they know the price is high and they are waiting to find the right ass for their seat. 

Maybe they would rather it rot than deal with a buyer for less than $500.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Your original post wasn't clear to me. Is the motor just bad and included in the sale or is it non existent? I would think it could be rewound and brought back to life by a competent repair shop.


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

I try to ask the buyer how they came up with the asking price. From there you can look at different ways to negotiate a reasonable price. 

Sometimes, the sellers are just crazy. I meet with an older lady selling her brothers Rockwell lathe. She priced it like she was selling individual parts, she rattled off various parts and how much they were selling for on ebay. I tried to reason with her, and explain that's not how things work. I gave her an example, that by her logic she should be able to sell her used car for $30K. End the end, we couldn't come to a deal.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> Your original post wasn't clear to me. Is the motor just bad and included in the sale or is it non existent? I would think it could be rewound and brought back to life by a competent repair shop.


 it doesn't have a motor at all


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

Sounds like he should give you $100 to haul it away.

HJ


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

He just responded to me me saying he would accept a trade so fingers crossed he accepts my offer


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Take a bunch of your friends with you to help load it.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Take a bunch of your friends with you to help load it.


 it's sounds like he has a way to load it but getting it off is the problem as my dad's truck is just a little bit bigger than most


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

maple man said:


> it's sounds like he has a way to load it but getting it off is the problem as my dad's truck is just a little bit bigger than most


What about an engine hoist?


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

nbo10 said:


> What about an engine hoist?


 my dad's truck sits to high for that I had that thought but I think I can get like 3 of my freinds plus me and my dad and move the thing


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Take some tools with you and dismantle the lathe as much as you can. It needs to come apart anyway and the more you can lighten it the better.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Take some tools with you and dismantle the lathe as much as you can. It needs to come apart anyway and the more you can lighten it the better.


 I was planing on it but I'm afraid it's all rusted together


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## arvanlaar (Dec 29, 2014)

maple man said:


> I was planing on it but I'm afraid it's all rusted together


You could possivly work out a deal with the guy and ask if you can come over a couple times and get some penetrating grease on the frame so you can transport it easier. I find most people, if the sale isn't time sensitive, will generally cut you some slack in terms of finding transportation.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

arvanlaar said:


> You could possivly work out a deal with the guy and ask if you can come over a couple times and get some penetrating grease on the frame so you can transport it easier. I find most people, if the sale isn't time sensitive, will generally cut you some slack in terms of finding transportation.


 I would but it is a pretty good ride to go get the thing


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

probably worth renting a lower trailer that you can load with a engine hoist. Or a forklift and a chain hoist.

if it is 1000lbs, and I bet its more, 5 people will NOT manhandle it into a superduty truck. 

Ignoring the fact that each is lifting 200lbs which is no joke with subpar handle points, plus the weight of 5 men, and the need to create some reasonable slope on a ramp that needs to support some 2000lbs atleast, the risk of death if the ramp breaks or anyone loses their grip/footing.

ughh keep me the hell away from that thing lol


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would be very surprised if 5 guys can load that jointer. You need a tractor, or a forklift. An engine hoist might work.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> I would be very surprised if 5 guys can load that jointer. You need a tractor, or a forklift. An engine hoist might work.


 I do not need to load it he said he has a way to load it i just have to get it off his truck


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

If its only at your house, you can prebuild something to span cross the truck with a few 2x12's and some hoists. No need to transport it or make it particularly mobile...


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would probably load it on a trailer. A trailer is a lot lower than your truck.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> I would probably load it on a trailer. A trailer is a lot lower than your truck.


 I had that though to but there is not a drop hitch low enough to get a trailer at a half way decent angle


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Is your dads truck the only tow vehicle you could borrow?


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> Is your dads truck the only tow vehicle you could borrow?


 I'm not even barrowing it I'm only 14 but we could probly use my grandfathers truck and my freinds trailer


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

You may be getting in over your head. This will be a lot more work than the 4 inch jointer. For what this jointer will cost, you could buy a ready to work 8 inch jointer.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> You may be getting in over your head. This will be a lot more work than the 4 inch jointer. For what this jointer will cost, you could buy a ready to work 8 inch jointer.


 I know that but I have a plan to restore it the olny large expense i plan on having is the motor i plan on using the same cutter head and just cleaning everything up and it is Babbitt bearing so they will just need to be repoured


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

There is also a 24" planer for sale with it do you guys think I should try and get him to throw it in with the deal


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## Dovetails (Jun 8, 2014)

Your helping this guy out in a big way.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> There is also a 24" planer for sale with it do you guys think I should try and get him to throw it in with the deal


Better PM Warner Construction before considering this one. Do you know what brand it is?


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Better PM Warner Construction before considering this one. Do you know what brand it is?


 same as the jointer but I am undecided on wether or not to try and get it


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Better PM Warner Construction before considering this one. Do you know what brand it is?


 I am undecided on wether to get it or not I am leaning towards not. And it is the same brand as the jointer


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> I am undecided on wether to get it or not I am leaning towards not. And it is the same brand as the jointer


 I think you are right about the brand. From what I can tell the planer isn't all there. It appears the chip breaker and a lever is missing. http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=17144

Warner could tell you better. He collects vintage machinery.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I think you are right about the brand. From what I can tell the planer isn't all there. It appears the chip breaker and a lever is missing. http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=17144 Warner could tell you better. He collects vintage machinery.


 I don't think I am going to try for it because even before I looked it up I thought it looked like stuff might be missing from it


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

I am still waiting on a reply from home but if I would end up getting the jointer would you guys lik to see a restoration thread


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I would.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I would.


 ok i will do my best to make one is there any parts in particular that you would like see from it because I know you are pretty much an expert on wood working but I would like to help you learn anything you need that I might know


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

No, I just would like to see the poor old thing come back to life. I like restoring old equipment too. I think the hardest part is the paint color. Seems like everyone paints a machine any color they like. I prefer if possible to put an old machine back to the color it was when it was born.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> No, I just would like to see the poor old thing come back to life. I like restoring old equipment too. I think the hardest part is the paint color. Seems like everyone paints a machine any color they like. I prefer if possible to put an old machine back to the color it was when it was born.


 I love restoring them as well I agree paint is sometimes the hardest part of it and too usually try to repaint the original color unless it is the battle shop gray color i just do not like that at all.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I kinda think this was the original color.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I kinda think this was the original color.


 that I what I was thinking and it's funny you put a picture of a bandsaw like that up the exact same saw is up for sale with the jointer


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

maple man said:


> that I what I was thinking and it's funny you put a picture of a bandsaw like that up the exact same saw is up for sale with the jointer


 I plan on a satin black or a gloss black with matte white lettering


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Personally I think gloss paint works better for woodworking equipment. On a satin finish dust sticks to it so good you almost have to use soap and water to clean it off.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Personally I think gloss paint works better for woodworking equipment. On a satin finish dust sticks to it so good you almost have to use soap and water to clean it off.


 you just helped me make up my mind of the paint


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Personally I think gloss paint works better for woodworking equipment. On a satin finish dust sticks to it so good you almost have to use soap and water to clean it off.


 well I asked him how much he was trying to get for the planer just for the heck of it and he wants 1000 for it I wouldn't even pay 100 for that the closer I look at it


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

lol choosing paint color for that is like dreaming how you'll spend your lotto winnings.

I got 20 says that jointer never runs...


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> lol choosing paint color for that is like dreaming how you'll spend your lotto winnings. I got 20 says that jointer never runs...


 I got 40 I restor it and never get a motor for it


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> I got 40 I restor it and never get a motor for it


Be kinda hard to run wood across it and peddle too it wouldn't it. :laughing:


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Be kinda hard to run wood across it and peddle too it wouldn't it. :laughing:


 I am going to go old school and make a Foot pedal for it


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> I am going to go old school and make a Foot pedal for it


Back in the day when that jointer was new it was pretty common to have a drive shaft running across the ceiling through the shop with a flat belt going to all the tools. The entire shop was powered by one big electric or gas engine. Maybe you could set it up and power it off your dad's truck.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Back in the day when that jointer was new it was pretty common to have a drive shaft running across the ceiling through the shop with a flat belt going to all the tools. The entire shop was powered by one big electric or gas engine. Maybe you could set it up and power it off your dad's truck.


 I think my dad would kill me I'll stick with Fred flin stoning it


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

*Hold the presses!*

When you go look at that jointer make sure the head has a pulley on it. Some models have a direct drive motor on them which you will not find a replacement. Check this out. http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156427&sid=4c9d446671e85b913d3323073b9f128d


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> When you go look at that jointer make sure the head has a pulley on it. Some models have a direct drive motor on them which you will not find a replacement. Check this out. http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156427&sid=4c9d446671e85b913d3323073b9f128d


 I kinda think this might have been one because the planer was


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Ok well I am still waiting on a reply from the guy and I am starting to become inpatient


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

If your impatient waiting a day for a seller to respond, you're going to be in hell restoring this thing.

I still dont see how a 12" jointer is going to run with the same HP as most 6/8" jointers. I mean... whats the point?

I dont mean to be rude but anyone being polite or playful in this thread is not doing you any favors.

This is a lousy deal for an adult with deep pockets, its a terrible deal for a teenager on a budget. 


This is NOT on of those rare finds, this is a hunk of rust who's price is set by the value of scrap.

As a jointer, its value is probably negative.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> If your impatient waiting a day for a seller to respond, you're going to be in hell restoring this thing. I still dont see how a 12" jointer is going to run with the same HP as most 6/8" jointers. I mean... whats the point? I dont mean to be rude but anyone being polite or playful in this thread is not doing you any favors. This is a lousy deal for an adult with deep pockets, its a terrible deal for a teenager on a budget. This is NOT on of those rare finds, this is a hunk of rust who's price is set by the value of scrap. As a jointer, its value is probably negative.


 I don't mind restorations because I now what it will be when I'm done it's the waiting to hear if it's mine or not that kills me


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

Bbach is right. This is a tough nut to crack. It's a boat anchor, for a big big boat. You want a challenge, there's always girls.

HJ

Seems like it's an antique by the time restoration is complete


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

maple man said:


> I don't mind restorations because I now what it will be when I'm done it's the waiting to hear if it's mine or not that kills me


you restore the dinged up shelby, this is a rusted yugo, after a fire...

its not worth the money it would take to restore it, nor do you have the money to restore it.

You see it as a cheap jointer, and thats where your mistaken, this is NOT a cheap jointer, IF it runs, itll be very very expensive.


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

Bbach,

Where in this land of potholes do you call home?

HJ


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Keep in mind guys Maple Man is young and time doesn't mean as much. The project is doable but will be labor intensive. It will probably take a grand to restore it but if he choose to could sell it and make a grand profit. The only unknown at this point is if the machine has a missing direct drive motor. This would be a deal killer since the motor would be propitiatory and not something you can just buy.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Keep in mind guys Maple Man is young and time doesn't mean as much. The project is doable but will be labor intensive. It will probably take a grand to restore it but if he choose to could sell it and make a grand profit. The only unknown at this point is if the machine has a missing direct drive motor. This would be a deal killer since the motor would be propitiatory and not something you can just buy.


 I don't belive it is direct drive because he told me it is belt driven and as for labor i plan on doing this restoration over the summer once me and my dad Have moved and I have my shop setup again


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

I am starting to think he didn't like my offer of what I had to trade for it it has been 2 days since I heard from him last


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Keep in mind guys Maple Man is young and time doesn't mean as much. The project is doable but will be labor intensive. It will probably take a grand to restore it but if he choose to could sell it and make a grand profit. The only unknown at this point is if the machine has a missing direct drive motor. This would be a deal killer since the motor would be propitiatory and not something you can just buy.



school takes as much time as any job.

even so, that things more than a few hours of steel wool from being functional. probably needs to be sand blasted, the table may not be flat with all that rust, every moving part may need to be replaced. its clearly been sitting in the elements for a LONG time, I doubt you'll get up close to it and find that its not far worse than you thought.

and 2hp on 12"? may as well attach a pedal. that thing needs a 5hp .

what would a set of blades cost do ya think?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bauerbach said:


> school takes as much time as any job.
> 
> even so, that things more than a few hours of steel wool from being functional. probably needs to be sand blasted, the table may not be flat with all that rust, every moving part may need to be replaced. its clearly been sitting in the elements for a LONG time, I doubt you'll get up close to it and find that its not far worse than you thought.
> 
> ...


School takes a lot of time but he will have a lot of free time in the summer months. I agree it needs to be sandblasted but a home model sand blaster will do an excellent job if you are patient. The top may not be quite as flat as it once was but I bet it's still within the standards of machines made today. The only real moving parts is the head bearings and he has already said those need to be replaced. What might get tricky for him is if it has babbet bearings but Warner is well experienced with those and could walk him through it. Five horse power would be a good choice for a motor however three horse power would work. I have a 12" jointer with a three horse power motor and I can face a 12" piece of white oak with it and take an 1/8" off in a pass with it.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

I think the issue baurbach is raising is about practicality, not possibility. Sure, it would be more than possible to get that hunk of S&*% running again, many guys here have tackled worse projects and come out ahead. The issue is that it wont be a "scrub the rust off and itll be good as new" sort of project, nor will it be a "$200 and some elbow grease and ill have a new tool" project. This is a "$200 for the tool, $400 for the motor, a few hundred hours time, god knows how much for sandblasting, heaven help you if the tables need re-machined which they likely do, etc" sort of project. Itll take pretty deep pockets just to get the raw materials to start getting it cleaned, and then theres the issue of finding parts. Theres already the issue of transporting a 2000lb hunk of metal, even moving it across a shop would be a challenge. Theres a lot of 'what ifs', and a lot of stuff that can go wrong that can be fixed in a home shop, or that need a lot more experience than most people who have been restoring old tools most of their lives have. 

Maple Man, i hate to say it, but im with baurbach on this one. I like old machinery as much as the next guy, except maybe Warner, but thats not a tool anymore, its a boat anchor. Sure, it could be restored, but after you factor in the cost of everything itll take to get it transported, cleaned up and running you could have just bought a brand new 12 inch jointer for a lot less. Right off the bat id be willing to make a guess that the tables have some pretty bad pitting from the rust, the height adjustment is likely siezed, and the blades are likely a lost cause to start with. Those issues alone will run you a few hundred bucks to get fixed, and even then its still not running. Its doable, but not practical unless you own a museum. 

If you really want a 12 inch jointer on the cheap, save a lot of time and money, get a cheapie 12 inch thickness planer and build your own:
http://woodgears.ca/jointer/homemade.html

Odds are that route will come out better


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> school takes as much time as any job. even so, that things more than a few hours of steel wool from being functional. probably needs to be sand blasted, the table may not be flat with all that rust, every moving part may need to be replaced. its clearly been sitting in the elements for a LONG time, I doubt you'll get up close to it and find that its not far worse than you thought. and 2hp on 12"? may as well attach a pedal. that thing needs a 5hp . what would a set of blades cost do ya think?


 40 bucks


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> I think the issue baurbach is raising is about practicality, not possibility. Sure, it would be more than possible to get that hunk of S&*% running again, many guys here have tackled worse projects and come out ahead. The issue is that it wont be a "scrub the rust off and itll be good as new" sort of project, nor will it be a "$200 and some elbow grease and ill have a new tool" project. This is a "$200 for the tool, $400 for the motor, a few hundred hours time, god knows how much for sandblasting, heaven help you if the tables need re-machined which they likely do, etc" sort of project. Itll take pretty deep pockets just to get the raw materials to start getting it cleaned, and then theres the issue of finding parts. Theres already the issue of transporting a 2000lb hunk of metal, even moving it across a shop would be a challenge. Theres a lot of 'what ifs', and a lot of stuff that can go wrong that can be fixed in a home shop, or that need a lot more experience than most people who have been restoring old tools most of their lives have. Maple Man, i hate to say it, but im with baurbach on this one. I like old machinery as much as the next guy, except maybe Warner, but thats not a tool anymore, its a boat anchor. Sure, it could be restored, but after you factor in the cost of everything itll take to get it transported, cleaned up and running you could have just bought a brand new 12 inch jointer for a lot less. Right off the bat id be willing to make a guess that the tables have some pretty bad pitting from the rust, the height adjustment is likely siezed, and the blades are likely a lost cause to start with. Those issues alone will run you a few hundred bucks to get fixed, and even then its still not running. Its doable, but not practical unless you own a museum. If you really want a 12 inch jointer on the cheap, save a lot of time and money, get a cheapie 12 inch thickness planer and build your own: http://woodgears.ca/jointer/homemade.html Odds are that route will come out better


 I already I have a sand blaster to do it and a lunch box planer and belive it or not this jointer is in better shape than the one I restored over the summer


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Well we certainly have a bunch of wet blankets here, would I buy it today, not likely, but there was a time when I was much younger that I enjoyed a challenge.
Only Mapleman knows what he is capable of, and what resources he has to work with, I say if he thinks it is worth restoring go for it.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Three days and still no reply


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

maple man said:


> Three days and still no reply



Count that as a blessing.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> Three days and still no reply


How long has the jointer been listed? If not long the guy might be holding out for the 500 bucks.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> How long has the jointer been listed? If not long the guy might be holding out for the 500 bucks.


 I just talked to him there is a guy coming from virginia to take all three tools but I asked him if he would let me come and get the jointer because the guy coming to get the stuff is just going to scrap the stuff


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

He's doing you a favor!!!

HJ


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> He's doing you a favor!!! HJ


 how so?


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

He's selling (or giving) them to a scrapper. That pretty much sums up what they're worth. Bbach is right on with his reasoning. Sometimes it pays to listen to your elders. We're not all dumb.

HJ

Some heed the warning the stove is hot - don't touch it
Others wait to smell burning flesh


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> He's selling (or giving) them to a scrapper. That pretty much sums up what they're worth. Bbach is right on with his reasoning. Sometimes it pays to listen to your elders. We're not all dumb. HJ Some heed the warning the stove is hot - don't touch it Others wait to smell burning flesh


 I know it will be a challenge (i like a challenge) but I have 2 months of summer vacation were I can work on it all day and I have a motor for it already


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Oh, I have no doubt by fall of this year you would have that jointer looking like this.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

I say go for it. The kids got nothing but time if hes got a place to store it. Theres no rush.


Whats the 411 on the motor you speak of Maple Man?


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

After re-reading it sounds like this discussion may moot if theres a guy coming to get it already.

Have you heard any more from the seller?


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Chamfer said:


> I say go for it. The kids got nothing but time if hes got a place to store it. Theres no rush. Whats the 411 on the motor you speak of Maple Man?


 2.5 hp 220 volt and my place to store it is in my shop closest to the picture on the left side it is 12x20 foot so plenty of space because we plan on taking this shed with us when we move


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Chamfer said:


> After re-reading it sounds like this discussion may moot if theres a guy coming to get it already. Have you heard any more from the seller?


 I'm still waiting to hear back from him but I asked him to keep it for me so I can restore it instead of it being scraped


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

I think if you do get it your biggest battle is going to be getting home, stored, and then moving it again to your new place.

Do you know what size floor joists are under that shed? What type of foundation?


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Chamfer said:


> I think if you do get it your biggest battle is going to be getting home, stored, and then moving it again to your new place. Do you know what size floor joists are under that shed? What type of foundation?


 I will be moving it right to wear my new shop location will be so I only have to move it once I have a 4x6 as to joist under my shop I made sure to check what I was constructed with before we even bought the shed


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Chamfer said:


> I think if you do get it your biggest battle is going to be getting home, stored, and then moving it again to your new place. Do you know what size floor joists are under that shed? What type of foundation?


 and the sheathing material is 3/4"


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It might not hurt to put some 2x12's across the floor where it will sit. If the legs on the jointer sit between the joists the floor will eventually sag.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Here is a better picture of the floor I know it is really dirty but I am boxing everything up so cut me a little slack on that


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

So he ended up selling it to another guy for 100 dollars but I have learned a lot about restoring old large tools so I will keep you guys posted on my search for a large jointer


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

Probably for the best. In reality, it was scrap. Try and take a smaller bite for the next project.

But with your gumption and drive, I would sure consider buying a mill and let you modify it and set it up right. Then you could buy any planer or jointer you wanted.

HJ

Likes your ambition and stubbornness


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Probably for the best. In reality, it was scrap. Try and take a smaller bite for the next project. But with your gumption and drive, I would sure consider buying a mill and let you modify it and set it up right. Then you could buy any planer or jointer you wanted. HJ Likes your ambition and stubbornness


 I got a planer I have the craftsman 12 1/2" model with a granite bed and rubber feed rollers i really like it I have no plans of replacing it any time soon


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Do you have any idea who the salvage guy was? Maybe you could buy the jointer from him.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Do you have any idea who the salvage guy was? Maybe you could buy the jointer from him.


 I though of it but he I located in South Carolina and in in Pennsylvania


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

I've been following your thread with interest. Ya, I'd love to try restoring something like that but even with access to a machine shop that's a huge project. To be honest I was kind or relieved to read that you missed out on it but I do hope you find a better project closer to where you live. I run across old pieces of iron here in S.W. PA all the time. What parts of PA are you located in Maple Man?

Oh ya... if you have any of those, Two Men and a Truck or Got Junk? places near you be sure to call or stop by, talk to them about what you are looking for and give them your number.

Rege


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Usually you can get good old equipment if you are on the east coast or west coast so you should be in good shape. I'm in the Dallas area and I had to search ebay and craigslist for a couple years before I found the 12" jointer I have. Then I had to drive all the way to Houston to get it. You might join Old Woodworking Machines forum. In the classified section there is often good deals on old machinery there. Still when you are looking for a 12" jointer you will need more than a few hundred dollars to play with.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

*Pictures*

Here is the pictures. The head shaft is pretty chewed up and has babbet bearings. You would probably have to have a machinist turn it. Warner would be the one to give you advice on that.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Here is the pictures. The head shaft is pretty chewed up and has babbet bearings. You would probably have to have a machinist turn it. Warner would be the one to give you advice on that.


 I have access to metal lathe at school as well


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

maple man said:


> I have access to metal lathe at school as well


I have a metal lathe myself but I think I would have that professionally done. It probably needs to be polished as much as turned true.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I have a metal lathe myself but I think I would have that professionally done. It probably needs to be polished as much as turned true.


 good thing my shop teacher is a machinest also


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

ah the good old days, I remember when I was a teenager with big dreams and a past littered with abandoned pie in the sky dreams


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

There is also talk where I found the pictures that the jointer has a square head on it which takes special knives for it that would run $720.00 if it is a 4 knife jointer. True or not I don't know.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> There is also talk where I found the pictures that the jointer has a square head on it which takes special knives for it that would run $720.00 if it is a 4 knife jointer. True or not I don't know.


 if I get it i plan on buying a struggle knife round head for it


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Here is the bandsaw and planer that went with the jointer.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Here is the bandsaw and planer that went with the jointer.


 that's it


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

That jointer was worth the few hundred bucks that was paid for it. 

The journals and bearings were in good shape.

For the naysayers in this thread.

I drug this home last summer:





No gibs, no knives, no guard (it won't get one anyway) no motor, no love in a half century.

It is the sweetest running jointer I have owned (I have owned quite a few).


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> That jointer was worth the few hundred bucks that was paid for it. The journals and bearings were in good shape. For the naysayers in this thread. I drug this home last summer: http://s272.photobucket.com/user/wconstructionco/media/20140817_151702_zpsovfvlymz.jpg.html http://s272.photobucket.com/user/wconstructionco/media/20140817_120637_zps4e65kdff.jpg.html No gibs, no knives, no guard (it won't get one anyway) no motor, no love in a half century. It is the sweetest running jointer I have owned (I have owned quite a few). http://s272.photobucket.com/user/wconstructionco/media/20141118_121728_zpsrc4e5zr9.jpg.html


 how large is that jointer


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

30" cutterhead.


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## maple man (Dec 21, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 30" cutterhead.


 wow do you work with slabs a lot or wat do you do with a jointer that large


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Wide things. Although I edged some 16/4 stuff today.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> That jointer was worth the few hundred bucks that was paid for it.
> 
> The journals and bearings were in good shape.
> 
> ...


ok, real talk time, how many hours/$ did you have to invest into it? including the value of any "free" parts you scavenged from your boneyard.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Knives were 100 bucks, surplus starter was 20 bucks, gibs were 500 bucks to have made.

The motor was something I got with other stuff and sold off other stuff, so it was free.

Drive belt came with the jointer. 

I had 200 bucks in the mandrel I used to pour new bearings. 

I had the machine cleaned and ready in less then a day. 

I suppose I have 25 hours total in the work I have done to it. 

Can't touch a ready to run 24" machine for less then 5K. New, 25k and up. 

There are just a handful of 30 and 36" machines out there. 

The first few jobs I had for this machine, paid for all the time and money I invested.

Real money spent, not that much.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Knives were 100 bucks, surplus starter was 20 bucks, gibs were 500 bucks to have made.
> 
> The motor was something I got with other stuff and sold off other stuff, so it was free.
> 
> ...


Back to that Cresent jointer the thread was about is it true the jointer had a square head? Also there was talk about a replacement head being $100.00 an inch and it took special knives that were about $15.00 an inch. Is this true? I came pretty close to buying a Cresent jointer myself however the one I looked at was plug and play.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

I have a 16"Crescent with a round cutter head. As far as I know most Crescent jointers have direct drive motors. This one has a 7 1/2hp motor.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> Back to that Cresent jointer the thread was about is it true the jointer had a square head? Also there was talk about a replacement head being $100.00 an inch and it took special knives that were about $15.00 an inch. Is this true? I came pretty close to buying a Cresent jointer myself however the one I looked at was plug and play.



Yes it was a square head machine. 

An insert head would probably be around 1200 bucks.

Slotted knives are real close to 15 bucks an inch. 

The knives in it looked almost new. 

I wouldn't recommend running a square head jointer to noobs, but I wouldn't be opposed to it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've never run a square head. How much different is it?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> I've never run a square head. How much different is it?


The only real concern is in a jointer and it is only a concern if you decide to try and touch the cutter block while it is running.

There is a larger gap between table lips and square cutter blocks vs. round gibbed heads.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

OK, I found this over at OWWM


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

That is a propaganda ad at it's best though. 

By a company that actually pushed a new style safety head that had it's fair share of design flaws.

There are plenty of old square head jointers out there being used still today.

I try not to toss the baby out with the bath water.


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## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

OK, I found this over at OWWM
Apparently, like iron, they don't make ads these days the way they used to. All we have today are hot dogs.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

jdonhowe said:


> OK, I found this over at OWWM
> Apparently, like iron, they don't make ads these days the way they used to. All we have today are hot dogs.


I can't get the link to work.


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## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

> I can't get the link to work.


Sorry- I think I must have clicked on link icon instead of quote 
Meant to make oblique reference to Sawstop finger-substitute.


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