# band saw resawing



## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

what methods do you prefer to use when setting the tension on your bandsaw, specifically resaw blades? I realize the mfr manual is to be followed, but many saws do not have a tension scale.


thanks


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A thing I learned from Falberg Saws here*

Blade tension is a real factor when resawing... the more the merrier.
Falberg Saws uses 2 tension springs on their saws to increase the tension. My 18" Min Max upper blade tilt and tension bracket was rebuilt and in the process I replaced the spring with a stronger one.










http://www.falbergsaws.com/

I use the "pluck it" method of tensioning mine. I pluck the left side of the blade because it's more exposed and listen to the sound while I increase the blade tension. I did take a guitar tuner to the shop to see what "note" I was playing, but I can't remember now. I do know the more the merrier works better. The tension on the blade "stiffens" it so it can't flutter under load. If fluttering occurs the cut will wander and not be true. I don't think you can over-tensiuon a blade to the point of breaking it IF the weld is good. I weld my own blades under 5/8" wide and rarely have a failure at the weld.


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

Some of the tension setting is based on the blade manufacturer. Since I use blades made by the local saw sharpening shop, I follow their recommendations. Also, the tension will vary from saw to saw. My bandsaw is a 10" benchtop with shop made guides, so I tend to use the "pluck" method as well as the "deflection" method. The saw manufacturer stated "less than 1/8" deflection", but on full resaw capacity (7" on my saw), I will tension for less deflection. Slow feed is just important as tension on thick pieces. Practice with your own saw will teach you what is necessary for your particular setup and workpiece. I have a chart on the side of my saw that records what tension level is best for each width of blade I use on it. Yes, my little benchtop saw has a blade tension indicator on it, so it makes repeating saw setup quick and accurate.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*from the Falberg Saw web site...*

http://www.falbergsaws.com/bandsaw_tension_tracking.html


The current manifestation of that project, Slicer, is a rip cutting monster with a 2 HP, 220V motor on the cutting edge of bandsaw technology and capable (not that you'll need it) of twice the tension of any other band saw anywhere.







The revolutionary new frictionless tensioner incorporated into this breakthrough saw can tension 1" blades without binding in the slides (as all modern bandsaws do), totally eliminating the blade "flappage" that produces all those rough-sawn lines we call "band saw texture". The new tensioners are miraculous for producing a finish so smooth it looks like the board just came out of a planer, not a bandsaw!


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

My dad and I cut some 6x6 to angle the other day to make some table legs on my bandsaw. We didn't have very straight lines when we got done but two passes on the jointer on each side made short work of it. I was excited to see how flat our legs were after the jointer. Next time I think I will tighten my blade more than I had it but it's good to know the jointer can clean it up


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## sunnybob (Sep 3, 2016)

The easiest way I have found of tensioning a blade is using the flutter test.





I've tried using a guitar tuner and it has some merit, but the results cant be used by other bandsaws because the tone all depends on the length of the free blade.
Use the flutter test first. then if you have a smart phone you can download a tuner app and find what works for your bandsaw.
But the biggest single issue with bandsawing is speed of feed. SLOW DOWN! 

I can cut 7" height on my 7" throat bandsaw, but the flow speed is very very slow. Watch the blade as you push the wood, try it on some scrap and see how the blade just wanders as you increase pressure on the wood. Let the teeth do the work.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Use the correct blade also*

A resaw blade should have no more than 3 TPI and the proper set to the teeth. Tension is the next step, then proper blade guide set up.
Feed speed is sorta self determining. If the saw doesn't cut very fast, chances are the blade is dull. What is "fast"? It should progress at a moderate rate without excessive feed pressure. You will know by using the saw frequently what that speed actually is.


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## coschafer (Nov 17, 2016)

I have a 14" Grizzly band saw. I have the extension in it so I am looking for 105" blades. Any recommendations for a good resaw blade. I have seen them range from $30 to $150. I want a quality blade that will last, but do I need to spend the money on a Laguna blade? Should also note that I have not done resawing before.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

The first time I powered up the Slicer, having no idea how much tension to apply, I cranked it down a few turns (just to find a starting point) When I turned it on it ran for a minute or two then quietly squirted the urethane tires out of the wheel wells but left the blade, still tracking, running on uncovered aluminum with no apparent damage to wheel or blade. I backed way off the tension and put it all back together where it remains today. The blade didn't flap with high tension, nor does it flap with low tension; so I guess my only guideline is to watch for if the tire squeezes out-if it does; back off. My guess is that I'm running at a spring load of 500-600 pounds. Now that I have the saw and cutting solution for wide veneer re-sawing I'm working on productization of the simplified feed-rail/sled system to make it operationally practical for Joe Woodworker to mill his own free wood from around the neighborhood. I really want to launch Slicer onto the market before I totally retire; working on it; slowly. The point: the cure for blade flappage isn't more tension. The cure for blade flappage is consistent tension; if the tensioning wheel doesn't snap in to take up slack instantaneously when irregularities or inconsistencies take place, the blade is going to flap. The answer is : Frictionless Tension and Tracking, FTT. Which only my saws have right now. Sooner or later someone you trust is going to come to my shop to verify what I'm saying and you'll go "WOW!!!!"


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

thanks to all for the inputs. just put on a lennox carbide 1" 1.3tpi. cuts like butter of course. they called for 28000psi tension I think it was. this is the part I was concerned about, relating that number to an actual setting. I did like the flutter test concept. mine is not fluttering.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi to measure spring load when only a corporate bureaucrat can conjure up enough double-talk to explain the tenuous relationship between the two. Doesn't "spring rate" just sound more dynamic than "pounds per square inch". Just the term somehow sounds static. When the blade is bouncing along uninhibited by its tensioning mechanism there just isn't much blade flapping to go by. You also find the saw vibrates less and delivers more power to the teeth. This is all especially true for high-tension blade transport systems. 1/2" blades use only half the spring load of the 1" blades. With spring load measurements it's as simple as measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Retrofit possible?*

Could a clever guy ... that's me, retrofit an existing Min Max 18" bs with a setup somethin' like your dual spring, floating tensioner?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Ah ...Ha...*



falbergsawco said:


> I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi to measure spring load when only a corporate bureaucrat can conjure up enough double-talk to explain the tenuous relationship between the two. Doesn't "spring rate" just sound more dynamic than "pounds per square inch". Just the term somehow sounds static. When the blade is bouncing along uninhibited by its tensioning mechanism there just isn't much blade flapping to go by. You also find the saw vibrates less and delivers more power to the teeth. This is all especially true for high-tension blade transport systems. *1/2" blades use only half the spring load of the 1" blades. With spring load measurements it's as simple as measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed.*


So, any thought of a retrofit would mean only using one width blade. Probably not gonna happen in my case, even tho I only use the 18 Min Max for resawing at this point in my shop. I read "COPY No. Uno" of the book you wrote back when, signed and dated. The sliding carriage for the upper wheel was not shown in enough detail, but I get the general idea. You want the spring tensioner as close to the wheel as possible, right? So, maybe I can see if that's possible. Any way enough of me and my "concerns" here. You certainly have the science of the bandsaw down and that deserves a whole lot of respect! :thumbsup:


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

Why would you be limited to one size blade? Mine will accept anything from 1/4" to 1.5" (more if I fattened out the wheel wells) width blade. Retrofit would be easy. Simply remove the Jet wheels and the motor, throw the remainder away, and build a proper frame; then throw the wheels away and replace them with machined aluminum wheels so you can speed it up a little, the rest is just following your nose where logic leads you. Remember, however, that I have more invested in one wheel than most of you guys have paid for your whole saw; and that's the 10" wheels. The 18" wheels would be closer to $400 each and you'd need all new drive and idler shafts machined. Bandsaws today aren't designed to work right. They're designed to make a profit; so they're built of die cast parts that the manufacturer buys by the pound from Chinese foundries. They won't improve those designs as long as you'll buy them. I don't even bother patenting this stuff any more. The global tool corps won't pay a penny for patents' licensing so I publish pre-emptively so nobody can patent it. Without that monopoly not one of them will invest in the tool and die work to fix the designs, either. My little niche is to make modern bandsaws for the professionals that depend on quality tools to do what they do better. My lever action tensioning idea went over so well they all starting converting to that, and ultimately there were after-market kits you could buy. They'll probably find some way to implement the frictionless tensioning idea, too, (if they can make it cheap enough) but then you still have all the other archaic design flaws to deal with so it's still not going to be a real high quality tool. Big global tool corps don't know it yet, but they're digging their own graves deeper every year by not doing the research and development to keep up with their customers' demands. While they're fiddling around with how to build a fence that works around blades that can't cut straight, we're designing rail and carriage systems that take the guesswork out of it all. This is what Americans used to do.


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

falbergsawco said:


> I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi to measure spring load when only a corporate bureaucrat can conjure up enough double-talk to explain the tenuous relationship between the two. Doesn't "spring rate" just sound more dynamic than "pounds per square inch". Just the term somehow sounds static. When the blade is bouncing along uninhibited by its tensioning mechanism there just isn't much blade flapping to go by. You also find the saw vibrates less and delivers more power to the teeth. This is all especially true for high-tension blade transport systems. 1/2" blades use only half the spring load of the 1" blades. With spring load measurements it's as simple as measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed.



PSI is used because it has been and continues to be the standard convention of every band manufacturer and allows direct reading off every commercial strain gauge made for bandsaws. Spring rate is indeed a term of art but is the relationship between compression in a linear unit of measure such as inches and pressure exerted by the spring in pounds, newtons, KG etc. By normal convention you seem to be mixing up spring rate with spring pressure or its derivative wheel pressure. With most bandsaws tension or strain is tested statically but large industrial bandmills usually test strain dynamically and constantly adjust the pressure to keep the correct strain on the band as it heats and cools. 1/2" blades do not necessarily use half the tension of a 1" blade, this only occurs when the cross-section of the backer (measured from the closest gullet to the rear of the blade) of the 1/2" blade is exactly half that of the 1" blade which is actually quite rare. The best way to measure the spring load (then extrapolate the wheel load and then the blade strain) is with a load cell. 

Have you verified your claim that your BS can produce twice the tension of ANY bandsaw? Me thinks you have exaggerated a wee bit there. If you claiming it based on the two springs in the picture they better be on the other end of a LONG lever.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

...I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi....
because
...delivers more power to the teeth...
...measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed....

are terms/conditions of your own making which no one else understands and has no basis in engineering, common sense or science.

the only way to deliver less power to the teeth is for the blade to slip on the wheels. pretty much a lack of tension there.... whether there is 1000 pounds or fifty pounds of spring tension, or 0.5 inches of compression or 50 inches of compression is completely unrelated - if the blade slips, it don't cut so good. if the blade does not slip, another 50 tons of spring loading or 50 fifty feet of spring compression don't make a hoot, subject to the issue that tension is sufficient to minimize flutter.

the thickness of the blade x the width of the blade = the area of the blade in square inches.
the pounds of force exerted by the springs divided by the area of the blade = pounds per square inch.

and (sigh) comma, as springs age in use they lose compression power. this is not a matter of weeks; but seeing as some wood hackers here are running 40-50 year old band saws, becomes an issue.


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## Al_Amantea (Dec 30, 2014)

coschafer said:


> I have a 14" Grizzly band saw. I have the extension in it so I am looking for 105" blades. Any recommendations for a good resaw blade. I have seen them range from $30 to $150. I want a quality blade that will last, but do I need to spend the money on a Laguna blade? Should also note that I have not done resawing before.


Go to Highland woodworking and get yourself a wood slicer real blade. It's all I use for real work, cuts like butter, and you'll love it. Guaranteed. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

Al_Amantea said:


> Go to Highland woodworking and get yourself a wood slicer real blade. It's all I use for real work, cuts like butter, and you'll love it. Guaranteed.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk



Spectrum Supply and Iturra sell the same bladestock for significantly less as the Kerfmaster and Bladerunner. These are really niche blades where you need either a very thin kerf or a bandsaw like the Ridgid and all Delta cast clones that have very limited tensioning ability. The are impulse hardened spring steel and are very sharp initially but dull much quicker than a standard carbon blade. Obviously, bi-metal and carbide blades are better choices for more substantial saws but this bladestock (borrowed from the meat cutting industry) has its advantages.


I never answered the OP's question, I use a bandsaw blade strain gauge to set mine, I prefer the Lenox for woodcutting bands (it has a larger readout in the woodcutting PSI range) but most aren't going to spend the money to get tension correct.


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## Al_Amantea (Dec 30, 2014)

Thanks for the info! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*blade tensioning methods .....*



Huxleywood said:


> .......
> 
> I never answered the OP's question, I use a bandsaw blade strain gauge to set mine, I prefer the Lenox for woodcutting bands (it has a larger readout in the woodcutting PSI range) but most aren't going to spend the money to get tension correct.


As far as I know, the strain gauge, the flutter test, the deflection method, the spring compression washer indicator and the "pluck" test, an audio method are the most common blade tensioning methods.... Is there another method?










http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six-rules-of-sawing.html

The most common "adjustment" mechanisms use a threaded rod or a cam operated lever. Are there other methods? The cam method, as far as I know requires a presetting of the tension via a threaded rod, then returns to that preset using the cam. I believe that the horizontal band mills may use a hydraulic piston and pressure gauge for tensioning, not certain about that though. Are there other methods?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

falbergsawco said:


> I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi to measure spring load when only a corporate bureaucrat can conjure up enough double-talk to explain the tenuous relationship between the two. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> probably because psi is the "tension scale" provided to us by the blade manufacturers.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

My saws have about a 1" range of tensioning slot between the slack end (enough to change a blade) and the fully tensioned end. You should be able to pull a fully tensioned blade sideways, like drawing an archer's bow, through the length of that range without feeling much increase in the "pull". You' d have to factor in the leverage of 10" wheels and a 110" blade to calculate a spring rate equivalent. Doing it like that, you get a "feel" for what constitutes "enough" tension. Turn it on. Cut some wood. Did it cut straight and fast? That's the right tension then. Are we woodworkers here or are we engineers? Put away the toys then and make a table or something!


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

falbergsawco said:


> Doing it like that, you get a "feel" for what constitutes "enough" tension. Turn it on. Cut some wood. Did it cut straight and fast? That's the right tension then. Are we woodworkers here or are we engineers? Put away the toys then and make a table or something!


First, do you realize how funny it is that someone engineering and building a bandsaw for commercial sale thinks using an accurate and repeatable method for setting tension is too nerdy? I suppose you don't bother using the highly engineering approach of using a air pressure gauge on your car tires, if the car goes straight and fast then you have the correct pressure. 

Bandsaw blades are designed to work at their optimum when they are tensioned within a specific range. Using them outside that range increases wear and changes the harmonics. Low tension can also lead to barrelling in the cut. The marks you suggest are due to tensioning "flap" are mostly a result of hesitation marks from hand feeding and harmonics in the blade. All bandsaw blades will exhibit harmonics, lower tension results in lower frequency and higher amplitude harmonics so the marks will be further apart and deeper higher tension reduces the amplitude and increases the frequency so the marks are more shallow and closer together. 

Also how can you call something an industrial veneer mill with only 2hp, that is less than half the hp for decent speed cutting of 15"+ veneer in domestic hardwoods and 20% of the horsepower and industrial bandsaw manufacturer would put on any saw being called a resaw. With 16-20" resaws in hardwood I have to run my power feeder at near the bottom of its speed range and I have 250% more horsepower and that is with a thin kerf carbide blade (I could run faster with a very thin impulse hardened spring steel blade but it would dull quickly). I just find it near ROFL funny that you tag a 2hp bandsaw with the word industrial, any industrial setting cutting veneer will be using a rotary mill or a high speed carriage bandmill for flitch cutting with 10-20 times the horsepower. For the price you have listed on your veneer mill you could get a 9 horsepower 32" Minimax and a medium power feeder that would have the efficiency to at least work in a light commercial setting cutting veneer.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

falbergsawco said:


> My saws have about a 1" range of tensioning slot between the slack end (enough to change a blade) and the fully tensioned end. You should be able to pull a fully tensioned blade sideways, like drawing an archer's bow, through the length of that range without feeling much increase in the "pull". You' d have to factor in the leverage of 10" wheels and a 110" blade to calculate a spring rate equivalent. Doing it like that, you get a "feel" for what constitutes "enough" tension. Turn it on. Cut some wood. Did it cut straight and fast? That's the right tension then. Are we woodworkers here or are we engineers? Put away the toys then and make a table or something!


I don't know about you, but yes - I am an engineer. and stuff like "leverage of 10" wheels..." left the track from the start. there's very little mysticism left in mechanics. I'd "call a friend" with a mechanical engineering background and trade some beer for a review of "how things work" in your design.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

Tom, let's pretend I just handed you a frosty beer of your choice . How do things work in my design? Why is it so easy to pull the blade sideways like drawing a bow when there is obviously more spring force being applied? What would a real engineer say about that. How should I have described that? Just don't tell me I need a half ton more steel and more HP than "cutting like butter" gets me. ("Cutting like butter" is a designer term for 2HP, or "sufficient" . Engineers, being more tradition-oriented, use the word "industrial" to describe over-powered bandsaws that have to compensate for the inefficiencies inherent in the two-wheel design.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

Huxly: " do you realize how funny it is that someone engineering and building a bandsaw for commercial sale thinks using an accurate and repeatable method for setting tension is too nerdy?" Yes


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*there are 2 sides to this discussion ....*

Both sides can be right. You have the engineering side and the seat of your pants, build it until it works side. The performance is what matters. If the Falberg saw can resaw 15" with little variation in thickness, then what ever he's doing is working. His saw weighs under 300 lbs or so, I can't remember. That's a long way from 800 lbs of a cast iron or welded steel version, if weight is a factor. It sounds like the parts are made in small lots or one at a time which accounts for the high cost, which may be a factor for a small operation.

Anyone sawing 15" thick material will have to deal with supporting the weight of the piece OR move the saw like a band mill. Either will require a serious structure to support the weight. If the piece is shorter than 36" and just for veneer, then the Falberg saw may have an advantage. 

Personally, anything I've resawn in my home shop was 4 ft long at the most. I've used either a 1/2" blade or 3/4" blade from Timberwolf and have no experience with other brands. I have no interest in spending more than $40.00 per blade, but I may be just ignorant in that regard. I have sharpened my own 131" blade with a Dremel with fairly worthwhile results. ... Again it's a home shop.
not an industrial setting where production is more important than time. My saw is a 18" Min max S45, a fairly nice welded frame saw with a 3 HP motor. It has enough power for a 10" resaw with a sharp blade.

A good thread on rewsawing:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/resaw-large-logs-your-bandsaw-58708/

Bugman, in the thread above, has a great small shop resaw setting using rollers in and out and a 25" Grizzly saw in the center.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Old Delta 14" with riser here. I just tighten the blade until I get a good cut. I use my "seat of the pants" meter to be sure I don't over tension. Unfortunately for some, you can't buy that meter.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

I'd wager over time there have been more and better designs created 'by the seat of the pants' than by degreed engineers.... being 'an engineer' is nothing more than a person with the aptitude - the paper is superfluous; for most of history 'the paper says I'm an engineer' did not exist.

why do you not detect a lot of pull distance deflecting the blade? because the force required to deflect it is a very very small fraction of the force holding it in tension. the deflection force can be accurately measured and you will see the difference - but by "feel" detecting the _difference_ between blade tension force, not so much.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

I haven't had a chance to explore 1" blades til now and I'm totally awed by their performance. I started testing Slicer with my familiar old 1/2"-2TPI Timberwolf blade with the lowest tension I could find and didn't get any "Wow!" with it. I couldn't feed it at any faster rate than the portable set-up despite the higher tension. But when I put on a Lennox Wood Master carbide-tipped 1" 2-TPI (3/32"W) I got the "Wow!" I was looking for. It reinforced my theory that blade width is the determining factor in whether or not you have enough HP. A bigger-than-2HP-motor would be wasted on a 1" blade because the blade wouldn't permit being over-driven. Going back to an old, old argument I still think band saws should be designated by the size of blade they can reliably handle. Punky little bench-tops should be described as 1/4" saws based on the max blade width they can realistically tension. Likewise, a saw that can run blades up to 1/2" width should be called 1/2" saws. Same for 3/4" saws, 1" saws etc. Motors should reflect the amount of power a given blade width can absorb without deflecting from overfeed. A 2" blade should go through 10" timber twice as fast as a 1" would and would, therefore profit from having more HP. If we could restrict our conversations on motor sizes to metrics more like HP/ saw size (expressed in blade width inches) we could avoid these circular arguments about apples vs oranges. Sorry I got distracted again; But getting back to preliminary testing: I had to slow Slicer down considerably from my starting point because the Ridgid wheels I used were so (notoriously) far from balanced the saw went dancing across the floor. Even with that, I managed to get a 65 MPH blade speed (I know- but that's how I visualize) and that converts to almost the same surface speed as the chop saw I use to cut aluminum. So I tried the same 1" carbide-tipped bandsaw blade on some aluminum and back and forth from wood to metal and it holds up just fine . So if you're getting along with your bandsaw OK and not breaking blades, I would recommend investing in a carbide-tipped blade. I've used them on my portables, too, and they have a great set angle for turning tight radius turns (and they're smoother). 3/8" CT 3TPI Wood something.


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

falbergsawco said:


> I haven't had a chance to explore 1" blades til now and I'm totally awed by their performance. I started testing Slicer with my familiar old 1/2"-2TPI Timberwolf blade with the lowest tension I could find and didn't get any "Wow!" with it. I couldn't feed it at any faster rate than the portable set-up despite the higher tension. But when I put on a Lennox Wood Master carbide-tipped 1" 2-TPI (3/32"W) I got the "Wow!" I was looking for. It reinforced my theory that blade width is the determining factor in whether or not you have enough HP. A bigger-than-2HP-motor would be wasted on a 1" blade because the blade wouldn't permit being over-driven. Going back to an old, old argument I still think band saws should be designated by the size of blade they can reliably handle. Punky little bench-tops should be described as 1/4" saws based on the max blade width they can realistically tension. Likewise, a saw that can run blades up to 1/2" width should be called 1/2" saws. Same for 3/4" saws, 1" saws etc. Motors should reflect the amount of power a given blade width can absorb without deflecting from overfeed. A 2" blade should go through 10" timber twice as fast as a 1" would and would, therefore profit from having more HP. If we could restrict our conversations on motor sizes to metrics more like HP/ saw size (expressed in blade width inches) we could avoid these circular arguments about apples vs oranges. Sorry I got distracted again; But getting back to preliminary testing: I had to slow Slicer down considerably from my starting point because the Ridgid wheels I used were so (notoriously) far from balanced the saw went dancing across the floor. Even with that, I managed to get a 65 MPH blade speed (I know- but that's how I visualize) and that converts to almost the same surface speed as the chop saw I use to cut aluminum. So I tried the same 1" carbide-tipped bandsaw blade on some aluminum and back and forth from wood to metal and it holds up just fine . So if you're getting along with your bandsaw OK and not breaking blades, I would recommend investing in a carbide-tipped blade. I've used them on my portables, too, and they have a great set angle for turning tight radius turns (and they're smoother). 3/8" CT 3TPI Wood something.


The width of a blade is not directly responsible for the speed at which it can cut. The important factor is the swarf clearing ability and that is a result of the gullet size and to some extent the gullet shape. This is more or less governed by the TPI of the blade, as generally the lower the TPI the larger the gullet. There are several factors impacting the maximum feed rate of a band through a given piece of wood. The tooth profile is the first. TCG grinds tend to have more side clearance and produce less friction but don't leave the best finish on the wood. The sharpness of the teeth is a big factor, which carbide is used in most serious resawing it also has the dullest teeth (due to the grain structure) but they last far longer than the alternatives. Gullet size is one of the biggest factors, large gullets result in quicker chip clearance and thus quicker feed rates. Kerf can also be a significant factor. Kerf is also a factor and can run from .016 to .085 in resaw blade made for vertical saws. Potentially the biggest factor is blade speed. 65 mph (mph really?) is a middling speed for resawing (about 5700 fpm for those used to standard machine conventions) and about half what a serious vertical resaw will run. Most if not all the bandsaws that run at these speeds will be DMD to reduce drivetrain vibration. 2hp is not nearly the "limit" of a 1" Lenox Woodmaster CT even at 4000 fpm but they certainly aren't a direct relationship since you might well run out of chip clearing in a softwood but horsepower in dense hardwood. 

While it appears your testing of the Woodmaster CT in aluminum was just for curiosity avoid much aluminum cutting with that blade the shear surfaces on the teeth will give up fast in aluminum, if you want a multi-material blade get the Trimaster instead, the TCG is right at home in everything from wood to titanium alloys. 

BTW carbide tipped bandsaw blades have no "set angle" (normally just called set). Set is the amount alternating teeth are bent away from the backer which produces a wider kerf in stamped blade bodies. Impulse hardened spring steel blades (Woodslicer, Bladerunner and Kerfmaster) have near zero set while blades favored by turners for cutting wet blanks have large amounts of set. Kerf and blade width together determine how tight of a radius a blade can cut. The body of a carbide bandsaw blade has no set and the width of the brazed on teeth are the sole determination of the kerf width.


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## Centerline (Dec 30, 2016)

I run a 3/4" Timberwolf 105" in the 14"Jet for resaw and it cuts like butter! 1200lf and counting


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

Hux, I don't know where to start with you. You're mostly wrong and I think deliberately adding more confusion than enlightenment. But go on, I'm sure somebody understands and cares. FYI: You never heard of set angle because I originated it and unless you read my book you didn't read the chapter wherein I described what it does and why I found it necessary to the understanding of band saw behavior (specifically to calculate turn radius of a blade). You should read it; it has many quotations from the prestigious engineers who helped me write it. It's called 'Your Band Saw" You'll love it. It's very technical. It bored the hell out of me despite my efforts to keep it entertaining. The only theory that I had to backtrack on Slicer was the idea I could tune the drive wheel to line up with a parallel fence . I'm experimenting with rail and sled systems now, having much better results. Otherwise; that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

falbergsawco said:


> Hux, I don't know where to start with you. You're mostly wrong and I think deliberately adding more confusion than enlightenment. But go on, I'm sure somebody understands and cares. FYI: You never heard of set angle because I originated it and unless you read my book you didn't read the chapter wherein I described what it does and why I found it necessary to the understanding of band saw behavior (specifically to calculate turn radius of a blade). You should read it; it has many quotations from the prestigious engineers who helped me write it. It's called 'Your Band Saw" You'll love it. It's very technical. It bored the hell out of me despite my efforts to keep it entertaining. The only theory that I had to backtrack on Slicer was the idea I could tune the drive wheel to line up with a parallel fence . I'm experimenting with rail and sled systems now, having much better results. Otherwise; that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Well, if you want to call me wrong bother to show me where I am wrong. So you coined a new term of art BUT just happened to use the same term that has been used in saw manufacturing for a couple of hundred years but you are attempting to give it a different meaning and you suggest I am adding to the confusion here. 

I am not against innovation but not simply for innovation sake but you use terms that are not common to the industry and your refusal to use normal conventions when discussing the issue just look like an attempt to obfuscate the issues. Nobody in the industry talks about tooling speed in miles per hour. Effective resawing is relatively easy and is extremely well understood. I just don't see where the quantum leap is and if there is one then there is a huge market in the high speed bandmill industry (cutting all that flooring every homeowner wants) but I don't see the problem you are fixing as being well defined. 

If you feel like it point out where I am wrong, if not I can will continue to assume I am correct.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

We resaw with 1.25" Lenox blades, tension springs are very stout. We don't get any blade flutter. Band wheels are solid steel, blade runs directly on the steel. Feedworks is hydraulically variable speed pinching the work between the conveyor and the powered feed wheel. Feed rate is usually set based on the length of the work, I. E. as fast as the in & out feed men can handle. This is the smaller of the Baker saws and only has 20hp. We use it to rip tapered molder blanks (feedworks can be tilted) and veneers for curved, laminated work.


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

Larry Schweitzer said:


> This is the smaller of the Baker saws and only has 20hp. We use it to rip tapered molder blanks (feedworks can be tilted) and veneers for curved, laminated work.


Are your Bakers single or multi-head?


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

It is just a single head. bought it used for $7,000. The original owner used it very little. A very nice saw. Quick and easy to set up for either straight or bevel sawing. I think this is their smallest saw with tilting feed works.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

Getting back to floor standing vertical bandsaws for the production of veneer, I offer this approach to cutting wider veneer with standard 2-wheel machines with less-than-desirable tensioning abilities. Short of building your own sled/rail system synchronized to the current blade drift pattern, one could calculate the set angle of the blades you're using and compare the results for their ability to follow a fence. Blades with wider set angles (not necessarily "set") will "crab" along a fence line despite not being parallel with it if has a set angle of 3 degrees or more. As you experiment with blades' set angle characteristics you'll find you can calculate a blades turn radius using the same measurements. The trade -off for using wide set blades is that you're using more HP to remove more sawdust. It's not important unless you're cutting precious hardwoods. All you need is a micrometer and a pencil. I'll attach the formula. You only have to do it once to get the idea. It was interesting (to me) to find that the Lennox 3/8" - 3TPI CT blade had a set angle up there with the Timberwolf blades and that it cut tight little radii and followed fences nicely. Neither of which blades require massive spring tension. For precious hardwoods you're pretty much stuck with high-tension narrow kerf wide blades and stout frames supporting a sled/rail feed system (although they don't need enough weight to anchor a battleship on stormy shores) None of this applies to lumber mills, however. That's another industry. I haven't experimented with powered feed systems yet but I expect I'm going to favor hand feeding based on it being more sensitive to over-driving. I really liked pushing the big logs with my finger tips . You can feel it cutting.


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

Are you familiar with "cheater" pipe? When the tires came squirting out of the wheel wells there was only the beginning few threads of compression on either spring. I'll find lighter springs, but I need two of them to balance the tension and tracking assembly and the two I use on the portables are too light. I just pull parts off my shelves . I didn't have the *right* springs in stock that day. We now know the limits to urethane tires. I'm debating just running the blade on aluminum crown but fearing that would collapse my set on the inside row of teeth. I still want Slicer to run tight radius blades. The way it's turning out is I don't NEED as much tension as the rest of you; so I can still run 1/2" blades and 1" blades on the same saw. Like I said, after that initial tensioning fiasco I haven't touched that adjustment and those tires are still good. The floating tensioner changes everything in regards to tensioning and tracking. In fact, everything I ever said about tensioning was wrong. Everything that everybody else has said about tensioning was even wronger. If your tensioning wheel isn't bouncing on that tensioning spring faster than the eye can see you might just as well throw the spring away. In fact (just remembered), when I first started building saws I couldn't get enough tension on one prototype and just ran a screw right into the tension wheel without a spring and it worked like every other saw. That is not a good thing. Since then my tensioners have all floated somewhat and that may be why I don't share the majority opinion on tensioning. The newly developed frictionless tensioner makes it quicker yet and more consistent. I'm convinced as never before that saws like Slicer are the future of ww band saws. There's no substitute for consistent tension. Can we get conversion kits for the disadvantaged? Anyone? Bueler?


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

Huxley: Now you've got me fine-tuning how much tension to apply based on when the tires come off, as they did when I first fired up the Slicer. I could glue the tires on, I suppose, but that's such a hassle to get it on and a nightmare trying to scrape off. It just seems wrong. Also, if tension can erase blade set on the inboard side, I don't want it. Tension also puts more strain on the motor. Plus: I think there's some vibration dampening going on with urethane tires. With the 2 HP on 1" CT blade setup with a rail/sled feed I could push hard and bog down the motor but the blade would deflect and ruin the cut. Why put a bigger motor on that. To go faster I need a 2" blade THEN I want a 3or4 HP motor. For that kind of ripping you want the SAW on a rail and forget the tires because now we're talking LUMBER MILL. Slicer wants to bridge that gap between lumber mill and home shop veneer master. Did you ever put "set" and "angle" together to calculate the "set angle" of a band saw blade? Being an engineer you should love that kind of thing. It took me a month to come up with the formula, I checked it out with my brother, who is literally a rocket scientist, and he assured me it was correct. I'm not intimidated by titles. And my English is right up (or down) there with the average engineer; so if I don't exactly qualify, Do I get some points?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*all this technical talk aside...*

What matters to most of us is that we can resaw a hardwood like Maple or Walnut without getting a lot of drift and have a pair of equal dimension slabs in the end. Blade type and tension will always be in dispute as I recall Lola Ranch only using a 3/8 wide blade for everything and his work is beautiful. I do think that the wider blades, over 3/4" stretch the limit, literally of the smaller saw frames when tensioned sufficiently to prevent drift and bowed cuts. My widest blades are 3/4" and used on my 18" welded frame Min Max with 3 HP and good results under 10" in thickness. I use 1/2" wide blades on the welded frame Craftsman Pro model also with good results under 7" in thickness. Ya gotta go with what works with your saw and your budget. :wink2:


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

You guys got me thinking about why my Baker resaw works so well. Currently running Lenox 1", 2tpi steel blades. The band wheels have no crown! I checked with a machinists square. There is a slight chamfer on both edges. The blades run directly on the steel wheels, no tires. Blades are tracked with the gullet at the edge of the wheel. Blade speed is 7700'/min. Feed is infinitely variable hydraulic. We typically set it at just slower than a man can handle the parts coming out. Cuts show no cupping from blade deflection. 20 hp and fed as fast as we can never had a problem other than you can't catch that fast. Very high blade tension, no way of measuring.
I also have the 17" minimax which has a stiff frame and can resaw but is inconvenient to use that way. Our 14" Rockwell is an older model with 1hp and struggles to do much in the line of resawing. With a 3/4" blade it will resaw slowly but if pushed at all it develops frame flex and vibrations. I can't see how adding a riser block would do anything other than increase the frame flex. 
There is an excellent video on bandsaw setup @


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## falbergsawco (Nov 25, 2009)

What is the thickness of the blade stock on those Lennox 1" 2-TPI steel blades?


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## highfigh (Oct 8, 2017)

coschafer said:


> I have a 14" Grizzly band saw. I have the extension in it so I am looking for 105" blades. Any recommendations for a good resaw blade. I have seen them range from $30 to $150. I want a quality blade that will last, but do I need to spend the money on a Laguna blade? Should also note that I have not done resawing before.


I found a guy in my area (Milwaukee) who sharpens blades and at one point, asked about saw blades and he said he sells table saw blades, but makes band saw blades from bulk stock. He welds the ends and anneals it, so it won't fail at that point and I'm still using the first one I installed. Using a Grizzly 0555 and a riser block, I can saw 8" wide White Oak 1/16" thick. I recently resawed a piece of Pine for a scab that would be used to cover an abandoned electrical junction box and when I rolled it back into its home, I noticed that I hadn't tensioned the blade before cutting. Still did a great job.


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