# dovetail joints - Yuk! Help!



## allthunbs (May 14, 2008)

I have a Sonoma/General dovetail jig.

I'm experimenting with dovetails (notice lack of hair!) Ok, I've almost got it to the point where the dovetails fit, sort of. They're as tight as _____ (you fill in the blank!) They can only be persuaded to fit with a rather large mallet and perserverance.

I have a large number of drawers to make, essentially all the same. 3/4" drawer front & back, 1/2" sides. 4" high.

#1: I've attempted to adjust the router bit depth and the collar keeps getting in the way. I can't get it any closer or I'll destroy the collar. Do you modify the collar in some way to stay out of the way? I'm using an Oak Park collar with a Woodline 1/2" bit. 

#2: I adjusted the backplate of the jig as far back as possible but the router base is too big for the jig. My router base is Ca. 4" square. The pins stand proud by about 1/16". 

#3: If I shortened the depth of the bit too much I get a gap between the root of the pins and the sides of the pockets. I make it longer and the fit is impossible.

This is my second attempt at dovetails and equally as frustrating as my first attempt.

Thanks for the help


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## YouNGwOOd (Apr 21, 2008)

*dovetail set up*

Sounds to me like the bit hight is the problem. Depending on how much dove tailing you are planning on doing, I would recommend in investing in a new set up.......


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

*dovetail problems*

Allthumbs,
I'm not familiar with your jig and you didn't mention what kind of router you are using. Normally the fix for either too tight or too loose pins is the router bit height. If your pins are sticking out it sounds like the router bit is not cutting deep enough. Did your jig come with good setup instructions? Mine were pretty simple and easy to follow. If you did what they said, everything works. Double check everything and practice on scrap pieces of the same exact thickness as what your good pieces are. Maybe try a different brand guide bushing if you are having trouble with the present one. I have not encountered the problem with the bushing getting in the way of height adjustment. Good luck, if you can't seem to get it fixed, maybe post some close up pics of your router and jig.
Mike Hawkins:blink:


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## coffeetime (Dec 28, 2006)

I have no experience with this but was wondering if maybe you just needed a thin spacer on the bottom of the router to get the bit to run a little higher?

Mike


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## allthunbs (May 14, 2008)

Please note, I'm getting closer but still no cigar! I'm answering the comments based on my experiences to date and not the result of experiments in the next few hours.



> I'm not familiar with your jig and you didn't mention what kind of router you are using.


I'm using the Samona/General dovetail jig. It is functionally identical to the PorterCable 4200 series, in fact, I'm using the PorterCable manual. The Samona one is the pits. Most of the dovetail jigs out there are variations on this, except, of course, OakPark.
I'm using an OakPark guide (7/16) and OakPark 7x7 baseplate on a Makita 3601B router with a 1/4" collet and a Woodline USA 1/2", 14 degree bit.



> Normally the fix for either too tight or too loose pins is the router bit height.


Yup, except that if I lower the bit any more, I'll destroy my guide. Do you trim your guide? What jig do you use?



> If your pins are sticking out it sounds like the router bit is not cutting deep enough.


I've gone as deep as the jig will allow. The 7x7 baseplate is barely able to fit. I find the router when it sits on top of the jig template rocks back and forth. My socket depth seems inconsistent across the entire piece of stock and that's only 4". Sometimes, it is deeper on one end than on the other. Pins are fine! BTW, thickness is not an issue. I'm using 1/2" plywood for the sides and 3/4" for the ends. The drawers open from both sides, thus the double endedness.



> Did your jig come with good setup instructions? Mine were pretty simple and easy to follow. If you did what they said, everything works.


Samona instructions are the pits and you can't get the General version without headaches. As I said I'm using the PorterCable manual which is much better but even then it doesn't diagnose problems.



> Double check everything and practice on scrap pieces of the same exact thickness as what your good pieces are.


I'm practicing. So far I've cut at least a dozen joints. I started out with 19" sides and now I'm down to 6" sides.



> Maybe try a different brand guide bushing if you are having trouble with the present one.


The OakPark stuff and their philosophy is excellent, except it is too damned expensive. Changing a guide means a new baseplate (that may or may not be available) as well as the guide. The worst part is that no one indicates what size hole in the baseplate their guides are supposed to fit. I'm so sick of the "fits most routers." I have three routers, Makita 3601B, Hitachi M12V and a little Craftsman. Not one takes the same sized collars, hence the OakPart stuff. I now have a standard from which to work and can interchange almost everything. But, when it comes to stuff like a non-OakPark jig, the world falls apart in chunks.



> I have not encountered the problem with the bushing getting in the way of height adjustment. Good luck, if you can't seem to get it fixed, maybe post some close up pics of your router and jig.


Getting close to that point but not there yet.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

*reply*

Allthumbs,
It sounds like you have been very diligent on checking on everything. I will have to look at my jig and guide bushings tomorrow after work, its late now. I just have an inexpensive set of guide bushings from woodcraft, nothing fancy. I use a milwaukee 1 3/4 hp router with the stock base. I haven't trimmed any guide bushings ever. Maybe I just got lucky and the combo of stuff I use just happens to work good together. Either that or maybe something is wrong with the jig you have. It shouldn't be that hard or frustrating to use. I'll write back,
Mike Hawkins:wallbash:


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

I would trim the guide, if necessary. Or you could look for plastic guides that the bit can lower into and be kind of self trimming.

Gerry


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

*jiggy problems*

Hey Allthumbs,
I was doing some checking on my jig and also looked in some of my woodworking catalogs to check on some other ones. My jig is an offbrand that is sold under numerous companies' names. I just saw it in the woodcraft catalog. One thing I noticed is that they all call for a 5/8" guide bushing. You listed yours at 7/16" along with a 1/2" dovetail bit. I know it sounds dumb, but are you sure that is what it calls for? That would explain your problem with clearance between the guide and bit. Let me know. I will try and post some pics tomorrow of mine and a sample piece from the last time I used it.
Mike Hawkins


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## allthunbs (May 14, 2008)

> I was doing some checking on my jig and also looked in some of my woodworking catalogs to check on some other ones. My jig is an offbrand that is sold under numerous companies' names. I just saw it in the woodcraft catalog. One thing I noticed is that they all call for a 5/8" guide bushing. You listed yours at 7/16" along with a 1/2" dovetail bit. I know it sounds dumb, but are you sure that is what it calls for? That would explain your problem with clearance between the guide and bit. Let me know. I will try and post some pics tomorrow of mine and a sample piece from the last time I used it.


Hi Mike:

You have much the same jig that I have. However, I've been looking at the Woodstock manual and it is much clearer than the others. I've since pulled out some reasonable joints. I have run out of 3/4" plywood so I'm going to have to change to another type. That means that I'll have to reset the jig. So, with any luck, I've learned enough to make a simple change and still pull out some joints.

Yup, 7/16" bushing. I have almost no clearance but it works and there is no apparent damage to the guide. I'm improving every day. Now, my biggest headache is getting the bottoms sized correctly.

Back to the experimentation.


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## allthunbs (May 14, 2008)

Whoever is the moderator of this forum perhaps you can make a sticky of this one.

It must be noted that most of the dovetail jigs on the market are all the same with a few minor adjustments depending on the version chosen by the vendor. For example, the PorterCable 4200 series and the Woodstock function the same but differ only where the comb mounts. The Rockler 12" and the Woodstock are identical but I prefer the comb attachment levers at the rear of the Rockler.

http://www.woodstockint.com/images/manuals/D2796_m.pdf

is probably the best dovetail manual out there that I've found to date. However, I wouldn't use it exclusively, since there is always more than one perspective to every issue. At the end of the manual are diagnostics of joints that are concise and accurate. This is the only one that I've found to date with information this detailed.

http://www.australianwoodsmith.com.au/pdf/30machinecutdovetails.pdf

has some excellent photos and an interesting jig that is shop made. It is very similar to most of the manufactured ones but I caution you to examine the differences carefully for they are significant.

http://www.deltaportercable.com/jigs/dovetail/SupplementalManual.pdf

Porter-Cable have two manuals both of which are quite good but lack good diagnostics. However, you would do well to study their technique for it can provide a useful perspective when combined with other resources.

There are other resources available on the net but I found those listed above to be the most complete when combined and the best use of time.

I have only one thing to add to the texts above. Apply moderate pressure downward with the router on the template to ensure full contact between the template and the pieces being cut.

Jigs that share method and function are Porter Cable 4200 series, Woodstock, HarbourFreight/Central Machinery, Samona, General and a whole lot more I couldn't be bothered to find.


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