# I'm Kickin' Myself



## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

You ever have one of those projects with a defect that just bugs you so much you're gonna have to spend the extra effort to fix it or it will haunt you forever? I try to be good and learn from my mistakes but there seems to be a new learning experience with every project. So, everyone learn from this mistake - planer marks are sometimes hard to see until after the color is applied. So sand the crap out of those panels and make sure they're flat and all planer marks are gone (or make your glued-up panels extra long so you can cut off the snipe). Also, a satin finish will hide a lot of small boo boo's but won't hide color variations caused by planer marks (however, it looks pretty good when the lights are out). 

After previewing the post and looking at the photo again, I find several things about the doors that I don't like (the splotchy color on the left door frame is caused by poor stain absorption on less porous quarter-sawn red oak and the mismatched grain on the center panel isn't too good). Maybe, I'll just make some new doors.

I wish I had shot a photo of the top - it was good.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Great craftsmanship! :thumbsup:

Sometimes, wiping down with mineral spirits after sanding, will help to show any defects. :smile:


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## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

Leo,outside of the snipe,it looks pretty darned good.Have you tried block sanding it using a piece of wood for the block?Those rubber ones just follow the contour and sand in the the snipe but the wood block should skip over it and sand the surrounding areas?Just a thought.Itchy


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Back in the day when I was learning to paint houses my boss taught me some very simple, effective sanding procedures whether it be hand sanding or with a palm sander or ROS. Use both hands! The hand that is not holding the tool or paper should be on the surface at all times feeling the surface just sanded. As I age I realize I can't always trust my eyes to see small snipe marks, but I can always trust my fingers to feel them.


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## bb71 (Jan 23, 2010)

That is a great looking piece! People won't even know that its snipe marks. Many won't even notice it. Also, depending where the piece ends up and the lighting its in, it may just disapear. I do what mdntrdr does, a quick wipe with minerals spirits to show defects before the final grit of sanding.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I hear ya. Every project has something. On the positive, the inset doors look real nice and even. Can you take the rails and stiles off and flip the door and re-sand/stain it and then just build new rails and stiles with grooves to fit the new thickness? It'll be worth it for your own piece of mind.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*What about this?*

Use a satin gloss black enamel on just the doors.
A solid color paint will allow you to fill minor imperfections and the grain won't show. :no:
If you don't like them afterward...plan B. Make new ones.
I personally think the black and oak would look great! 
You may not......:huh: bill

Here's an example of black and oak but it's opposite to what you would do. There are lots of black and oak stuff on Google images :
http://www.sugarplumoak.com/bedroom/mule-chests/amish-fresno-mule-chest-base/


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Geoguy,

Surprise defects are another reason I try to avoid staining wood and just got natural.

One thing I've done that really helps is I have a bright light mounted at the same height as my sanding bench. When I sand parts I hold the pieces up to the light at a severe angle and sight across them from several different angles. You find most all the defects that way.

I feel your pain, Bret


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## hands made for wood (Nov 2, 2007)

Geoguy, If it makes you feel any better this past year or so I was working on finishing the top of an antique dresser, and after staining it and then giving it a three coats of varathane I realized the color didn't completely match the rest of the piece... so I sanded the finish off and tried again. This time when I stained it, (not sure if I varathaned it this time...) I noticed the little orbital sander markings on the piece, that came out when you stained it.

SO for the third time I sanded and sanded and SANDED the top. It now looks quite good  
I know your pain! But the piece looks fantastic! :thumbsup:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Don't fret, and don't paint them black. All that can be sanded/scraped out and refinished.:yes:












 







.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Look at the grain variation*



cabinetman said:


> Don't fret, and don't paint them black. All that can be sanded/scraped out and refinished.:yes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The door panels don't have any relationship to each other grain wise. If they were book matched or related in some way, I'd say keep them as is but, that ain't the way they are. Paint them and I mean a quality rubbed surface, not just a rattle can, would disguise the grain. As I said this is just my opinion and it's an unusual approach, but to me it makes a lot of sense here. :yes: bill


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree with cabinetman just try to sand it out and refinish. If it dont work which it should, you are no worse off then you are right now. 

We all have had the same problems. It's just part of the process to being better woodworkers.

Edit 

After looking at the pictures again the middle door is off because of the grain difference but I don't know if I would remake a door for it. Your the one that has to be happy with it, I've learned a long time ago I will be unhappy with something on every project i make because I built it and I know the flaws. It don't help that I'm a perfectionist, but you have to learn when to let it be or it will drive you nuts on a never ending project.

Bills examples of oak and black look nice but i don't see it working here as an after thought but that is up to you.


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

My first thought is it's not that bad, but pictures both hide and show a lot of things.

I'm trying to be a good Christian... but I hate @#^$^ snipe!
Snipe is bad in a bunch of ways (and my planer snipes a ton).

Depending on your panel thickness and planer marks (depth), I would have to agree with several of the others. Sand it down and refinish. 
I might be simplistic here (or plain simple :blink, but I would lay in to the panel with a rotary sander. They're not raised panels, so depth shouldn't be a problem. Several grains... clean it up... refinish. Piece of cake.

By the way, nice joints and design.


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

The snipe on my planer is minimal, but it bothers me regardless. It is for this reason, that I make the boards 2" longer than needed and after planing, I mark the last 2 inches of the board with dark pencil scribbles so that i don't accidently use it. I love this cabinet though. Good luck on getting it to a point where you are happy with it.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

I think it looks good.

I still don't like the results from my planer, so, after the planer, I go over everything with my smoothing plane.


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

*Thanks, Guys*

All good advice. I'll start by sanding the panels. I finished them once, so, I guess I can do it again. I went out to the shop and took another look last night and concluded the light must have been just right in the photo because it didn't look near as bad in person, as in the photo. I'll give it another shot and make a couple notes in the mental woodworking diary. Maybe, that's my problem, all my mental notes are kept in a mental diary that's loosing pages daily.

Thanks, again,
Terry


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## R.J. (Feb 11, 2011)

Geoguy, very familiar problem.
Soiled colors on the left part of a door, it is norm.
I to give you some advice?
After processing on machine tools we moisten a tree with water.
We grind and look on light as speaks Lola Ranch, very well it is visible. Glue can be seen.
Or we draw a pencil of a strip and at polishing all is visible.
You the good fellow, I wish you good luck!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I agree you did a great job on the wood working end and I sure can't give advice on finishing as I am no good at all. I just wanted to say about the snips with your planer, I always lift the end of the board up to put pressure on the trailing end before it gets past the infeed roller, I don't have any snip. This may not work for you but it works for me.


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## tt1106 (Apr 10, 2009)

We are all probably our worse critics. Nobody spots the small things like we do. Of course, without mistakes we would not produce better pieces. Apathy is the real enemy, do better next time. This is the difference between an artisan and a hobbyist. 
The piece looks great, flash photography always does a better job of exposing defects than our eyes do.


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## btyirin (Aug 14, 2008)

Geoguy said:


> all my mental notes are kept in a mental diary that's loosing pages daily.


I understand this very well :smile:

Keep us posted


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## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

I did the same thing on a folding table I made for my wife. I won't make that mistake again.


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## Bill Wyko (Feb 25, 2011)

While it will probably only be seen by you and in a very particular light, I can understand your frustration. I too am a stickler for details. As far as the overall piece though, I think you've done a spectacular job. A beautiful design and great choice of color for the finish. You know what they say, the sign of a great wood worker isn't what he builds......it's how well he hid his mistakes. :thumbsup: I have no doubt you'll have it looking perfect in time.


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## mjdtexan (Dec 13, 2008)

mdntrdr said:


> Great craftsmanship! :thumbsup:
> 
> Sometimes, wiping down with mineral spirits after sanding, will help to show any defects. :smile:


You can do that? It wont leave an oily film?

Sorry to the OP for the hijack. Aside from the snipe, that is a good looking piece of furniture.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Butting in here....*

While waiting for Scott....:sleeping:
I use alcohol, naptha or miner spirits to wet down a surface to reveal imperfections and to give a wet look impression. :thumbsup: bill


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## anoldlady (Aug 19, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> Great craftsmanship! :thumbsup:
> 
> Sometimes, wiping down with mineral spirits after sanding, will help to show any defects. :smile:


I agree. I make it a habit to to that every time (mainly because I can't wait to see what it is going to look like with a finish applied). It really helps to show everything.


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## mjdtexan (Dec 13, 2008)

anoldlady said:


> I agree. I make it a habit to to that every time (mainly because I can't wait to see what it is going to look like with a finish applied). It really helps to show everything.


So, the mineral spirits will not leave any residue that will hamper you at finish time?


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

mjdtexan said:


> You can do that? It wont leave an oily film?


 
I've been wiping with MS for many years, never had a problem. :smile:


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## Savage (Apr 16, 2011)

Great looking piece, I like it! I did a coffee table for my son in December and it looked great til I applied the finish. I ended up stripping the whole thing back down and starting over, then put too much stain. I should've just finished it clear and it would've been perfect. I think yours turned out really good!


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## jharris (Jan 8, 2011)

sawdustfactory said:


> Back in the day when I was learning to paint houses my boss taught me some very simple, effective sanding procedures whether it be hand sanding or with a palm sander or ROS. Use both hands! The hand that is not holding the tool or paper should be on the surface at all times feeling the surface just sanded. As I age I realize I can't always trust my eyes to see small snipe marks, but I can always trust my fingers to feel them.


+ 1 absolutely!


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Hey Geo,

What did you decide?
Have you reworked this piece?
Or did you decide to live with it? :smile:


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## Drillbit (Jan 13, 2011)

Relax. People going to be so busy trying to work out how to open those doors, they'll never notice the planer marks :laughing:

It's a beautiful cabinet. I'd buy it.


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

I sanded down the center panel to bare wood, sanded out the planer marks, and refinished. I just haven't taken any photos and haven't posted a response. I'll try to get a photo soon.


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## TonyBal (May 17, 2011)

*Snipe???*

Is this what all the fuss is about???


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

TonyBal said:


> Is this what all the fuss is about???


Hey kids! Grab a plastic bag, and lets go hunting!!!!!
:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

*Sorry, It Took So Long*

It turned out OK. It's got a slide-out drawer and an adjustable shelf behind each door. The new owner loves it, and that's what's important.


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## TonyBal (May 17, 2011)

That looks awesome. It was well worth the extra effort to get it right.:thumbsup:


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## Nick6685 (Mar 23, 2011)

*Nice*

Looks great Geoguy, I think the first pass looked great too.


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