# Can I get away with no jointer and just a planer?



## Michael_JL (Apr 1, 2013)

I will finally have room to set-up a small workshop in our first home we're hopefully closing on in a week. It's an old home that has many projects I'd like to try my hand at. Previously, I've used my grandpa's workshop which, while very well equipped, is 2+ hours away and I don't own a truck or trailer to haul lumber back and forth. With a limited budget, I cant afford all the necessities up front. What I do have is a very good circular saw, a very nice router, and intentions of picking up a decent planer. My question is; will a planer sled suffice to flatten 4/4 walnut planks for a counter top project I want to do? I could use the router with a split fence to joint the edge. I also need to build a work bench, and I want a laminate top made out of ripped 2x8s. Will my arsenal (assuming a decent planer) get me where I'm trying to go, or would I be better off putting these projects off for 8-10 months while saving/figure out a way to use grandpa's shop?

Thanks for any opinions.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

yes.

I have a planer and a joiner; the joiner I rarely use.
if you get a joiner, it needs to have a long infeed and outfeed table; short table don't produce straight edges on long boards.

consider a table saw, really sharp blades, long fences and a 'sled' to create a straight edge.


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

It would work, and it will work better if the walnut is reasonably flat with no cupping

I very seldom flatten on a jointer if you set the plane right and don't hog off too much it will make the boards pretty flay


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

Technically, the two machines are for two different functions. The Jointer will straighten the face/edge of a board. The Planer will flatten one side making it parallel to the opposite side. You would use a jointer to flatten one side and then use the planer to make the opposite side parallel to and to a certain thickness from the jointed side.


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## Michael_JL (Apr 1, 2013)

Jim Frye said:


> Technically, the two machines are for two different functions. The Jointer will straighten the face/edge of a board. The Planer will flatten one side making it parallel to the opposite side. You would use a jointer to flatten one side and then use the planer to make the opposite side parallel to and to a certain thickness from the jointed side.


Correct, in a perfect situation that is what I'd have, but I don't have the space or money for that. However, I have read about people building a planer sled and using it as facing jointer. I'm more curious of that's a viable substitute, or not so much.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Living with only a planer certainly isn't as convenient as having a jointer too, but it's certainly doable. A planer sled will take care of your face 'jointing' needs, and a table saw straight line rip jig will handle edge 'jointing', it just takes a little more time to set up the jigs than it does to kick on a jointer


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## gmcsmoke (Feb 6, 2011)

scrub plane, jointer plane and dewalt 735 has worked for me for years.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

A scrub plane makes pretty quick work out of facing a board. They are easy to make. You can then run the board through the planer to make the other side parallel and return to the scrub side to clean it up. A shooting board and a decent hand plane will give you near perfect edges quite quickly. When I first started I got a bandsaw instead of a table saw. I could get ready to glue boards off the shooting board and bandsaw lots of curves. Much depends on what you want to make.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*facing a board ...*

What you are trying to do is eliminate any twist in the board and to make the surface as straight as possible. It doesn't have to be totally flat, but straight enough not to rock in the planers pressure feed rollers and causing them to lose their feed force, hanging the board up in the machine.

A sled just has to deal with twist/rocking by supporting the "high" corner. The "straight" part will come from the sled board itself as it runs under the cutter head.

I made a planer sled from some gluing frames, quick and easy to setup:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/planer-sled-rails-14940/

Jointers remove material from below, planers take material off the top. Jointers support the bottom face on the outfeed table, planers use the beds OR the sled for support.

If you hand plane the board, removing the twist and make it "straight enough", you can run it through the planer and get a fairly good surface to flip over and make the top side flat also. So, YES you can get away without having a jointer. Straight edges can be done with a circular saw and a straight edge guide OR a straight line rip jig on the table saw OR a jointer hand plane. No need for a jointer for edges.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If it were me I would get a jointer before a planer.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> If it were me I would get a jointer before a planer.



+1: I totally agree. You can buy your lumber S4S and work it into projects with just a joiner. :thumbsup:


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

Not always a fan of combo machines, but why not check out a combo jointer/planer like Jet offers. I think Rikon too. 

http://www.jettools.com/us/en/c/woodworking-planers-planer-jointers/151/?Filter=1&Reset=true


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I can live without a jointer, but a planer no way...


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## Michael_JL (Apr 1, 2013)

Maintenance Man said:


> Not always a fan of combo machines, but why not check out a combo jointer/planer like Jet offers. I think Rikon too.
> 
> http://www.jettools.com/us/en/c/woodworking-planers-planer-jointers/151/?Filter=1&Reset=true


Unfortunately the only model iciukd afford is the 8", which wouldn't work from a planer standpoint, but thanks for the suggestion.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I was into woodworking for 20 years before buying a planer. I had a jointer as soon as I had a table saw.

Still use the planer much less than the jointer.

It really depends upon what type of wood that you buy. If you use a lot of rough cut wood then you need a planer. If, like I did/do, buy mostly S2S(surfaced 2 sides) wood than a planer is not a necessity.

George


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## Brian(J) (Feb 22, 2016)

Michael_JL said:


> I will finally have room to set-up a small workshop in our first home we're hopefully closing on in a week. It's an old home that has many projects I'd like to try my hand at. Previously, I've used my grandpa's workshop which, while very well equipped, is 2+ hours away and I don't own a truck or trailer to haul lumber back and forth. With a limited budget, I cant afford all the necessities up front. What I do have is a very good circular saw, a very nice router, and intentions of picking up a decent planer. My question is; will a planer sled suffice to flatten 4/4 walnut planks for a counter top project I want to do? I could use the router with a split fence to joint the edge. I also need to build a work bench, and I want a laminate top made out of ripped 2x8s. Will my arsenal (assuming a decent planer) get me where I'm trying to go, or would I be better off putting these projects off for 8-10 months while saving/figure out a way to use grandpa's shop?
> 
> Thanks for any opinions.


It's interesting to see the range of opinions- however the way you phrase the question it's clear that you can easily get by with a rail and router set-up; I get perfect results joining 1.25" walnut planks 7.5' long using an EZ-smart rail system and a small Festool router, and I don't mind doing it.


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## canarywood1 (Jun 9, 2016)

Toolman50 said:


> +1: I totally agree. You can buy your lumber S4S and work it into projects with just a joiner. :thumbsup:




If your buying S4S you don't need a jointer, the material is ready for your project.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

You can "get away" with no power tools at all if you want to, but life without a planer or joiner simply means more work if you plan to use dimensional lumber. Buying 4S wood can help, but it costs more, and is still prone to some twisting and warping over time. 

A planer and jointer do different tasks, and are best when used in tandem....there's no more effective or efficient method to milling flat, square, straigth stock. A jointer flattens a reference face, and squares and 90° edge uniformaly along the entire lenght of that face. A planer smooths the faces and makes on side parallel to the other at a uniform thickness, but it doesn't create a reference face or a squared edge. With the help of a planer sled, you can coax a planer into flattening that reference face, but you'll need to use alternatives to square the edge. If you try to square the edge without first creating that flat reference face, there's no guarantee it'll be a true 90° along the whole face, and can make mating the edges more of a challenge because of deviations.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*One more thing ....*

Bench top planers in the Dewalt 734 and 735 realm, have very short beds for the in and outfeed tables. To make the best "jointer sled" you will need additional length on those tables. One way is to set the whole unit into a permanent surround which has the extended tables built in like this:










Another version:









Those images were found here:
https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0LEVyRyl9ZYfJIA8jpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0bG41bTRiBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjM2MjZfMQRzZWMDcGl2cw--?p=planer+extension+table&fr2=piv-web&fr=sfp#id=73&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slaughterhousegallery.com%2FNess%2520Yawl%2FImages%2FShopPlaner.jpg&action=close


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Why would S4S cost that much more? If he buys from a cabinet supply dealer he will get S3S with be no discount even if he asks for it in the rough...


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

As you can see reading through the previous posts much of this hobby is personal preference.

What tools you need depends a lot on what other tools you have, a lot of operations can be done several ways with equal results, it is sometimes just more efficient to use one tool over another.

Another factor is your source of material, if you have good S4S material available for a reasonable price it is often just a matter of hand selecting the material for a project.

It will also depend if you have friends or relatives nearby that you can take a board or two over to their shop and true it up.

Often it is lack of imagination rather than lack of tools that hold projects up, as they say, "Where there is a will, there is a way".


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

I have found I can get away without anything except an axe, a hand saw, a jack plane, a 1/2" chisel, and a mallet. Everything else is superfluous.


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

All the S4S lumber I have seen it wouldn't take very long to buy both a jointer and planer if you are building just a few large projects

The stuff I have seen in the big boxes for hardwoods runs close to $20-30 per bd ft,


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Catpower said:


> All the S4S lumber I have seen it wouldn't take very long to buy both a jointer and planer if you are building just a few large projects
> 
> The stuff I have seen in the big boxes for hardwoods runs close to $20-30 per bd ft,


Most DIY are only buying a few pieces of lumber at a time. Most have full time jobs as well. Even I will go to retailer for a board or two opposed to calling my supplier.
Now if one is building a whole set of kitchen cabinets I would consider a wholesale purchase account.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

The DIY has beat the pricing down so hard that professional have had to sacrifice profits just to stay busy.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

It seems to me that every time I go into a big box store for lumber, it is bowed or cupped. That is usually the case with what I have always called white pine. I like working with it for projects but it is never flat.

As for hardwood, I usually go to the local dealer about 12 miles away.

I worked without a joiner for many years but I am tickles to have it available. Sometimes all I do is make one pass to clean up a saw mark on an edge.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

If interested in good, old tools, I would start looking right now. Assuming that eventually, you want to build up a shop, I would buy the first, jointer, planer, band saw, etc, that was advertised at a good price. If you buy quality old machines, a shop can be put together on a budget, and with great tools!


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

Rebelwork said:


> Most DIY are only buying a few pieces of lumber at a time. Most have full time jobs as well. Even I will go to retailer for a board or two opposed to calling my supplier.
> Now if one is building a whole set of kitchen cabinets I would consider a wholesale purchase account.



I'm a DIYer too but I buy lumber in bulk 200-700 bd ft at a time


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## WorkBenchInk (Mar 20, 2017)

Since several folks have mentioned the Dewalt Planer I wanted to throw in my 2 cents; got my Dewalt 735 two weeks ago and love it. Don't have a power jointer - just my Stanley #7 relic that works fine flattening rough stock. The last issue of Wood magazine just did (another) planer review, picking the Dewalt as the best. Again, as others mentioned, it would be wise to purchase the optional infeed and outfeed tables. Technically this is the Dewalt 735x, also called the "planer package". At the time I purchased it Amazon had the best price.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*one more, one more thing ....*

Rough sawn lumber OR resawn lumber from the shop using a bandsaw will have a rough edge, probably no more than 6" wide in a DIY shop with a small bandsaw. The discusssion about surfaced lumber goes away IF you can resaw your own OR buy rough sawn AND the price will be less. So, figure out a way to surface your own lumber, be your own mill. :surprise2: This applies to the OP as well as just about everyone else.

I didn't start out that way and most small shops don't either. Once you get a bandsaw capable of resawing, your world changes. If you have used a sled in the planer for jointing, now you can do a lot more. If you also have a jointer, the process is much faster since you flatten/joint one face, resaw that side off then flatten the other faces. This is my process for rough saw lumber.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/resaw-sled-7552/

Boards as wide as 8" are not very common in most furniture except table tops and panel glue ups. So an inexpensive 6" jointer wioll handle most projects. I can resaw about 10" wide on my 18" Min Max bandsaw, but rarely do that. I can resaw about 7" to 8" on my 14" Craftsman bandsaw, but rarely do that wide either. Most resawing I do is around 6"which then goes to the 6" Craftsman jointer for facing and clean up.

The great thing about a planer sled is the extra width capacity, BUT do you really need that? I find that I don't, except on rare occasions and a hand plane would work in those cases. 

What you need and need to get by on AND what you may want down the road will be different. All the power tools in my shop just save me time. I am capable of hand planing and do so, rarely because I have other means. That "other means" has taken me about 40 years to accumulate as a DIY/Hobby shop, I am not a production shop. My quilt rack project probably took 2 to 3 weeks to build. My Mission headboard probably about the same. I'm not under pressure to get a project finished by a certain time.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

Rebelwork said:


> Why would S4S cost that much more? If he buys from a cabinet supply dealer he will get S3S with be no discount even if he asks for it in the rough...


Most lumber dealers charge .15 to .25 per linear foot for whatever extra machining they have to do (it's either built into the price or tacked on at the end), so why wouldn't S4S cost more than rough sawn? Having a jointer and a planer should allow him to buy directly from saw mills or wholesalers for much less.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

notskot said:


> Most lumber dealers charge .15 to .25 per linear foot for whatever extra machining they have to do (it's either built into the price or tacked on at the end), so why wouldn't S4S cost more than rough sawn? Having a jointer and a planer should allow him to buy directly from saw mills or wholesalers for much less.


#1 As mentioned most hobby woodworkers don't generally buy enough lumber to warrant a large purchase, nor have the space.
Even if you have an account with the area suppliers, you will #1 pay according to how much you purchase and #2 you don't get to pick each board. You get it loaded at the door...

#2 Here in the Kansas city area we generally use Frank Paxton Lumber co. or Liberty Hardwoods. They are the main lumber carriers for residential and commercial work in the Midwest.

They charge the same regardless of how you want it. THAT'S A FACT.....

#3 Buying in the rough doesn't guarantee better quality even at the "discounted" price. Been there, done that.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

notskot have you read the original post?


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

Rebelwork said:


> notskot have you read the original post?


Yes, and no where did he mention that he's limited to your suppliers, or cabinet suppliers. Most wood suppliers charge for extra services...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

So you read he doesn't have a jointer to save this money you are talking about?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

notskot said:


> Yes, and no where did he mention that he's limited to your suppliers, or cabinet suppliers. Most wood suppliers charge for extra services...


What extra service? They don't even charge me to deliver.....


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Gentlemen, you are arguing about things about which most of us have no control. We buy our wood where and when we can find the type of wood that we want. Most of us do not have a mill which will cut and plane our wood as we would it for final usage.

We have to purchase what is available.


George


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## Peter StJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

As mentioned many times above, you can get away with just about anything. It's just a matter of preference and time.

If you are concerned about getting something just right, which I would be with a counter top, you could also consider taking the wood to a local community woodshop. This is a great way to use tools you would never be able to buy yourself. Many cities have a co-op shop space, or something that can be used through a local trade school or community college.

My local woodshop costs $35 per hour to use, or $130 for a full day. They have a 24" planer, a 12" jointer, an 8" jointer, a thickness sander, a 10' travel panel saw. These are things I will never have in my shop no matter how much I like to make things.

I do as much as possible in my garage, but when I need to get something just right with a tool that is too expensive to own, I spend $35 and use an $8000 planer for an hour.


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