# Workbench with wedges vice?



## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

My table saw takes up a ton of room, then there is my brewery, as does my large Mac toolbox I had to bring home from work. I'm left with an apartment garage with limited space. I need a work bench though. I'm interested in using hand tools a bit more. I don't have room for a traditional workbench, so I was wondering if I could make a work bench top that I clamp on top of the table saw. This seems fairly straight forward, and easy to store when I'm not using it. But, as far as clamping goes, I thought maybe of just using some 3/8 thick hard wood wedges and bench dogs to hold the flat work pieces for planing, carving, clamping, etc. I can't figure out how I could clamp anything vertically for planing the edges of the boards, or cutting dove tails. Any thoughts?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

If you have solid stops on the bench you can use wedges against it for supporting work on edge for planing and such. 

For dovetailing and the likes you could build a little auxiliary vise, commonly but inaccurately called a Moxon vise. It can be secured to the top edge of a work bench with a few clamps. A quick search came up with Swartz's (big surprise) take on it - http://www.popularwoodworking.com/w.../declaring-victory-with-the-double-screw-vise

Good luck


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Use hand-screw clamps laid on their side to hold the piece vertically and then other clamps to hold the hand-screw clamps in place.

Kind of like this picture only imagine the hand-screw clamps on top of the bench without a vise.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Check out Veritas WonderDogs. I use them in place of an tail vice.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

islandboy85 said:


> My table saw takes up a ton of room, then there is my brewery, as does my large Mac toolbox I had to bring home from work. I'm left with an apartment garage with limited space. I need a work bench though. I'm interested in using hand tools a bit more. I don't have room for a traditional workbench, so I was wondering if I could make a work bench top that I clamp on top of the table saw. This seems fairly straight forward, and easy to store when I'm not using it. But, as far as clamping goes, I thought maybe of just using some 3/8 thick hard wood wedges and bench dogs to hold the flat work pieces for planing, carving, clamping, etc. I can't figure out how I could clamp anything vertically for planing the edges of the boards, or cutting dove tails. Any thoughts?



Give the sawtop bench an apron on each side of the saw (front and back). Then there are a few possibilities.

1) Use long pipe or bar clamps that go from the back of the saw to the front to clamp things to the front of the bench.

2) Drill dog holes in the front apron, and use a set of dogs to support a board from the bottom, and use dogs and wedges to hold it from the sides. Or just wedge it from the sides... that would probably work just fine as well.

3) Inlay T-track into the apron, and use clamps that slide into the T-track to support your workpiece. That's probably the most versatile, but also probably the most expensive and most work.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Wrangler said:


> Check out Veritas WonderDogs. I use them in place of an tail vice.


It says they're min. 7/8" tall. How do you set up for work thinner than that? Do you have to have a bunch of hard board laying around to put under the board you're working?


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

You can also put a piece of thin scrap between the WonderDog and your work.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

islandboy85 said:


> It says they're min. 7/8" tall. How do you set up for work thinner than that? Do you have to have a bunch of hard board laying around to put under the board you're working?


Yes, I use pieces of 1/4" and 1/2" plywood to hold thin pieces above the bench dogs.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Or you could build a new-fangled bench top that lets you use pipe clamps for holding stuff. something along these lines ...


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> Or you could build a new-fangled bench top that lets you use pipe clamps for holding stuff. something along these lines ...


I like this approach; also don't forget holdfasts!


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Wrangler said:


> I like this approach; also don't forget holdfasts!


Yeah, I like the table design there too. Are holdfasts a smaller diameter than the 3/4" dog holes? Do they have some kind of a bend in them in order for them to stay stuck in your bench top? I have a friend who is an amazing blacksmith. I may see if he could make me some if I get some dimensions on them.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

The holdfast I have is 3/4", from Gramercy: the only curve is at the top. Look at them here to get an idea.

Hand forged iron would be fantastic, but for me the Garmercy one was a LOT cheaper.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

a little more detail on what i was thinking ...

the center inserts are 3/4" thick MDF. you can put stops of different heights on one side of them if you want for planing or whatever.

then you can simply flip one of the inserts over to use that, and then flip it back when you are done.

also note that there are other holes in the center pieces that let you put the clamps in different spots as desired.

i can add more detail later if there is any interest for it.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

sorry ... not trying to spam the thread or anything ... just one more angle ...

you could even have a floor on the thing and have a well where you can stash stuff you use alot


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

islandboy85 said:


> Yeah, I like the table design there too. Are holdfasts a smaller diameter than the 3/4" dog holes? Do they have some kind of a bend in them in order for them to stay stuck in your bench top? I have a friend who is an amazing blacksmith. I may see if he could make me some if I get some dimensions on them.


The hold fasts that I use are 11/16" dia. And wedge in the 3/4" dod holes in my bench top. If I had a friend that was a blacksmith, I would have hand forged ones. Mine were all purchased from WoodCrafters, and were machine forged in Korea.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

+1 on gramercy holdfasts. I had trouble with them at first and thought they needed tweaked, so I roughed up the shaft with some sandpaper as they mention on their webpage and then glued on a leather pad. After that they weren't much better, but playing around I realized it was my technique. Now I can set and release them with the heel of my hand.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> sorry ... not trying to spam the thread or anything ... just one more angle ... you could even have a floor on the thing and have a well where you can stash stuff you use alot


Spam away my friend! I'm a bit confused on the removable MDF panels though. Do you pull them all out, put the work piece in their spot, and tighten up the pipe clamps?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Well, a "real" new-fangled workbench has clamps going lengthwise as well. The inserts are there for primarily 2 reasons: (1) so you can hold stuff on the top of the table, and (2) to make it easy to move (or remove) the front clamps.










But they can also do other stuff, like putting a planing stop on one side of an insert, or as a disposable place for drilling into, or probably a bunch of other things that don't come to mind yet.

I have found this approach to be extremely flexible. So I was thinking along those lines as I was brainstorming about what you are looking to do.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

for reference, here is a video about the new-fangled workbench ...

http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/video/new-fangled-workbench-revisited.aspx


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> for reference, here is a video about the new-fangled workbench ... http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/video/new-fangled-workbench-revisited.aspx


I'm having a hard time deciding between the versatility if the NF and the small portability of the Moxton. With the Moxton, I need a small bench top to put over top of my saw, but it wouldn't be taking up space like the permanent permanent like the NF. Maybe I can make the NF top without legs, and just add them when I get a house.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

What I was envisioning was a NF-style top for the saw that could be taken off when you need to use the saw. You can make it pretty much any size you want. The key is the 2 2x4s running down the center that make the walls of the well. If you decide to make one big enough to be used as a stand alone table later, and the saw can hold it, then all the more power to you.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> What I was envisioning was a NF-style top for the saw that could be taken off when you need to use the saw. You can make it pretty much any size you want. The key is the 2 2x4s running down the center that make the walls of the well. If you decide to make one big enough to be used as a stand alone table later, and the saw can hold it, then all the more power to you.


It's an old Delta Model 10 contractor saw. I don't think weight will be a huge issue. A nice 3'x4' bench top will be a manageable size/weight when moving it around. If I was in a house I'd just build the darn thing as an out feed table, but until then I'll have to spend about 18-24 more months where I'm at. Did you build yours from regular 2x4 studs or better grade lumber?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

It probably wasn't necessary, but I used douglas fir. The wide back part of the top is a 2x10, also douglas. All told, it is about 27" wide (front to back) and the well is just a tad wider than the width of a standard piece of 12" MDF. IIRC, the pipes are 9" apart on center.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> It probably wasn't necessary, but I used douglas fir. The wide back part of the top is a 2x10, also douglas. All told, it is about 27" wide (front to back) and the well is just a tad wider than the width of a standard piece of 12" MDF. IIRC, the pipes are 9" apart on center.


I was just wondering because I've heard some guys have used regular construction grade 2x4, but the Borg around me only sell some crap twisted up warped nasty wood.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

yeah, i know what you mean.

at mine it is the same. i put every piece on the floor to see if it rocks. that eliminates about 90% of them.


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## islandboy85 (Sep 17, 2011)

Well I ran into this http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XBvHT9TVXTo&desktop_uri=/watch?v=XBvHT9TVXTo and it seems very nice. It also occurred to me it would make an excellent reloading bench. I think it could combine the use if the pipe clamps from the New Fangled design into this one. I'm a bit confused why he put two identical vices on it. I think I could make this bench to a smaller size, and rearrange my garage slightly to accommodate an actual bench. The downside to this bench design though is I would lose the assembly table function of many other bench designs.


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