# Workbench Build



## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Hopefully I'll remember to keep up on this. 

This will be mostly based off of a Split Top Roubo that everyone else seems to like. Mine will be a bit different though. 

Size is aiming to be ~72" long, 3" thick top, and 30" wide.

I moved into my new townhouse just under 3 weeks ago from a studio apartment, so I obviously needed to build myself a bench. I've never had a proper woodworking bench before, so I figured that would be a good first project with the new garage. Drove about an hour NE of the city and picked up 105bdft of Red Oak from someone off of craigslist for $160. 










Ended up getting sick this week and had to stay home from work on Tuesday. What's a good cure for a 100+ degree fever? Sawdust of course.

Planed down and ripped enough boards for half of the top, and managed to get it all glued up.










There it sat until tonight after work. My wife ended up getting sick (courtesy of me), and our neighbors are having a dinner party outside, so I didn't want to fire up any power tools. Pull out my No. 6, sharpen it up, and get to work.










My arms hurt.

The whole thing isn't completely flat, but it's flat across 95% of the width the whole way. It's enough to where I can throw it through the planer to flatten the other side, and then finish off the first.










Hopefully tomorrow will be a productive day. Trying to at least get the second glue-up done. The goal is to have both sides finished this weekend. Second side will be a little trickier as I have to Plan ahead for a wagon vice.


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Looking nice!


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Planed down and ripped enough boards to make the second top today. 










Filled up yet another 30 gal trashcan of shavings/dust. The remaining space in here was topped off by emptying the contents of my shopvac (which was also dumped out yesterday).










Then I routed out/chiseled the area for the wagon vice. There will be a lower guide rail that will be added in that will allow fine tuning the fit later on.










All glued up










The boards that are sticking past the rest of them will be turned into the moving block for the wagon vice as well as filling in the gap on the end of the vice. Doing it this way ensures that the fit will be just right when I go to put them in.


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## Stephens73 (Aug 14, 2013)

Looking good.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Didn't get a whole lot done today. Elbow/shoulder was hurting while trying to flatten the front half. So I called it a day and did some other stuff around the house.










Total is 28 pieces of oak. It's about 25" wide here. With the planned tool well it will end up about 30" wide.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

interesting design changes, I am subscribed to this one!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*kudos to you*

Very ambitious project, but probably rewarding each day you make progress. I would not have the energy to make a bench top this way and would have to resort to a wide belt sander 4 miles down the road as I did about 5 years ago. I'm thinking of building another one though, so I'm watching this thread also. :thumbsup:


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> Very ambitious project, but probably rewarding each day you make progress. I would not have the energy to make a bench top this way and would have to resort to a wide belt sander 4 miles down the road as I did about 5 years ago. I'm thinking of building another one though, so I'm watching this thread also. :thumbsup:


Well, my initial idea is to drawbore the top halves together in the endcaps. 0 glue, and 0 glue for the legs going into the top. That way in the future if needed I'll be able to knock the pins out/drill them out and throw each half through a planer again.


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

Looking good. Cant wait to see the finished product.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

I ordered up a pair of Tail Vice screws from Lee Valley yesterday. One for a leg vice and one for the wagon vice. With any luck I'll get them later this week. Also may be picking up about 60-70bdft of Walnut this week as well.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Well I got the legs laminated up tonight. No photos, but it's not really exciting to look at anyway. Should hopefully be able to rip/plane them down to final size tomorrow, and then I'll be going away for the weekend. Vice screws should be here on Monday.

I may need to find some more wood. I'm slowly running out of oak, and what I have left isn't wide enough for the leg vice. 

I picked up about 67 boardfeet of Walnut yesterday at $4.75/bdft ($2+ less than in a store here), but that's spoken for in a coffee table and morris chair planned for builds this fall/winter.


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

JMartel said:


> Well I got the legs laminated up tonight. No photos, but it's not really exciting to look at anyway. Should hopefully be able to rip/plane them down to final size tomorrow, and then I'll be going away for the weekend. Vice screws should be here on Monday.
> 
> I may need to find some more wood. I'm slowly running out of oak, and what I have left isn't wide enough for the leg vice.
> 
> I picked up about 67 boardfeet of Walnut yesterday at $4.75/bdft ($2+ less than in a store here), but that's spoken for in a coffee table and morris chair planned for builds this fall/winter.


7 bucks for walnut?! My local store has it for 11! Lucky guy. Needless to say I don't do much with walnut or ash or cherry etc. I need a local mill!


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Well the stuff I bought for $4.75 wasn't from a mill. That was just a guy on craigslist that buys woodworker's collections of wood for his cabinet-making business and didn't have any use for the walnut at the time. Same guy that I got the Red Oak for $1.50/bdft.

My local lumberyard, Crosscut Hardwoods, is on the way to/from work and has Walnut for $6.75/bdft.


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## TimT (Oct 19, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing the finished product. Nice work on using reclaimed lumber.


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## bobasaurus (Aug 22, 2013)

Great deal on that oak. Craigslist can be good sometimes. I want to build myself a massive bench like this someday.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Subscribed. Planning a Roubo style bench build soon so I'll be paying attention...


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Didn't get anything done yesterday as I spent the day driving through North Cascades National Park. Amazing scenery up there. I feel very fortunate that I live close enough to be able to drive through whenever I want.

Today I managed to be quite productive. First I cut down legs for the workbench:










Used the hand clamps as vertical guides for the saw. 










4 equal length legs. 35" long, 3" wide, 2.75" thick.


I also got new fluorescent fixtures wired up in the garage (had to wire up new outlets as well). Sorry for the poor photo. Workspace is MUCH brighter now. Could probably use one more bank of lighting, but it is easy enough to add later.











And finally I got one half of the top surfaced through the planer. Had to enlist the help of my wife for this. That thing is super heavy. Still have the other half to do, and then I have to make sure they're both equal.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

And this is where I was yesterday:


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Found a nice care package on my doorstep from Lee Valley today.


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Don't trip and fall off the mountain  Looking forward to see the finished bench.


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## Crusader (Jan 14, 2013)

JMartel said:


> And this is where I was yesterday:


 That looks familiar. Is that Diablo?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Crusader said:


> That looks familiar. Is that Diablo?


Yes, Diablo lake up in North Cascades NP. I took a bunch of photos to stitch together into a panorama, I just haven't put them together yet.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Another present was waiting for me when I got home from work today. 

Back story:

I was originally going to use the traditional parallel guide at the bottom of the leg vise as it is the cheapest option out there. I did plenty of research into it, and eventually settled on doing a combo parallel guide with skateboard wheel bearings to support the weight and help prevent racking. I didn't really like the fact that to use the parallel guide you would have to reset the pin every time you changed thickness of the work to be clamped, so I wanted a more elegant solution. I dismissed other options such as the Benchcrafted St. Peter's Cross due to the cost ($$$), and I decided against the chain guide system because of the $115+ cost and I didn't really care for the design. 

In doing my research, I stumbled across a more modern system that was extremely simple to operate, simple to install, didn't cost very much, and prevents racking. In addition, the design makes it such that you no longer have to bend over to reset a pin like you would on a traditional parallel guide. I believe it is probably the simplest design, fastest/easiest to install, and best way to prevent racking.

A machined shaft and a linear bearing. That's it. Machined shafts are generally spec'd to within +0.000"/-0.003" tolerance so they are very straight, very smooth, and you cannot expect any amount of error. A linear bearing allows a shaft to only move in one direction, in this case in/out of the bearing. There will be zero play in the side to side and up and down rotations. The shaft rides on ball bearings so there is very little friction. 

A video of one in action:










*Note in the video he used a 30mmx500mm shaft (1.18"x~19"). I bought SI sized due to the availability of large forstner bits. It's much easier to find one in 1.25" than 30mm.

So, off to Ebay I went. McMaster Carr is very expensive. They have everything you could want, but not at the prices you would like. I managed to find a 1.25" Dia shaft 24" long for $35 + $5 shipping, and a 1.25" flanged linear bearing for $27.70 w/ free shipping. 


Got the shaft in today, bearing should be arriving Friday or so.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

JMartel said:


> Another present was waiting for me when I got home from work today.
> 
> Back story:
> 
> ...


I like this idea a lot…


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

I love the north cascades. I'll actually be in Mazama next weekend for early archery deer hunting.

Is that Devil Lake?


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## bobasaurus (Aug 22, 2013)

That linear bearing idea is really clever. Do you think the bearing will wear out as lateral pressure is applied while clamping? I might have to steal this idea someday.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

bobasaurus said:


> That linear bearing idea is really clever. Do you think the bearing will wear out as lateral pressure is applied while clamping? I might have to steal this idea someday.


The bearing and shaft are designed for very high stress industrial work. A puny leg vise isn't going to do much to wear it down.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

JMartel said:


> Well the stuff I bought for $4.75 wasn't from a mill. That was just a guy on craigslist that buys woodworker's collections of wood for his cabinet-making business and didn't have any use for the walnut at the time. Same guy that I got the Red Oak for $1.50/bdft.
> 
> My local lumberyard, Crosscut Hardwoods, is on the way to/from work and has Walnut for $6.75/bdft.


I've been trying to contact the walnut guy from Craigslist and he won't return my messages, even when including my phone number. What's the secret to getting him to return my messages? I'm trying to get some walnut from him too. Btw, I could spend hours at Crosscut just looking through stacks of lumber. Have you tried hardwood industries in Woodinville? It's a drive, but their prices are better than crosscut.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I plan on taking a trip out to Hardwood Industries today. Been wanting to get out there but they're not open weekends and I always seem to have other things going on when I get a weekday off.


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

Another place to try is McKillicans in Auburn. About 30 minutes from Seattle. Selection is a bit more limited but generally speaking they compete very well.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

ctwiggs1 said:


> Another place to try is McKillicans in Auburn. About 30 minutes from Seattle. Selection is a bit more limited but generally speaking they compete very well.


Thanks for the tip, I've never even heard of McKillicans.


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

I hadn't either. They're mostly focused on cabinet shops but I asked them if they would sell retail and they said they would. They prefer a $50 min but that's pretty easy to hit with hardwoods anyways...


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Beautiful Pictures- we love going over the N. cascades. Another great one is Cayuse pass on Rainier. Bench is looking great. :thumbsup:


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

mike1950 said:


> Beautiful Pictures- we love going over the N. cascades. Another great one is Cayuse pass on Rainier. Bench is looking great. :thumbsup:


I took Chinook pass over Rainier the first weekend after it opened on the motorcycle. Unfortunately it was a bit cloudy and rainy at the top.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Masterjer said:


> I've been trying to contact the walnut guy from Craigslist and he won't return my messages, even when including my phone number. What's the secret to getting him to return my messages? I'm trying to get some walnut from him too. Btw, I could spend hours at Crosscut just looking through stacks of lumber. Have you tried hardwood industries in Woodinville? It's a drive, but their prices are better than crosscut.


Not sure of a secret. He responds to me very quickly. I bought out his entire stash of red oak for this bench and probably about half of his walnut. Most of the walnut is straight grained but there is one piece I found so far that has some sweet grain patterns. And to think, I almost used that board for an end grain cutting board.


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## Crusader (Jan 14, 2013)

Just thought I'd pass along some information about Hardwood Industries. I stopped by there today as they aren't too far from where I live. I spoke with Mike Sved and sad to say but they are wholesale only. Here's the number if you want to talk with him.
425-420-1050.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Crusader said:


> Just thought I'd pass along some information about Hardwood Industries. I stopped by there today as they aren't too far from where I live. I spoke with Mike Sved and sad to say but they are wholesale only. Here's the number if you want to talk with him.
> 425-420-1050.


That's disappointing. I need to stop by crosscut in order to get wood for the chop/deadman. I don't have any oak wide enough for that. Luckily crosscut is right on the way home. 

There won't be any updates to this until later next week unfortunately. I am going away for a wedding so I probably can't get back to the build until Friday at the earliest.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

I didn't forget about this build, I promise.

I just got home from vacation yesterday and found the bearing waiting for me on the front porch. Fits perfectly on the shaft with essentially zero play. Also stopped by crosscut and picked up another board of 6/4 Red Oak for the chop. Looks like it will end up being about 9" wide and 2.5-2.75" thick. 


















EDIT: It looks like my photobucket account has been viewed too much this month. That means photos will be down until the 16th.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

How are you going to attach the rod to your vise?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Rod is going to be attached to the chop. I'll drill probably a 2" deep hole in the chop, and epoxy the rod in place. Probably need to scuff up the end of the rod so the epoxy will hold better.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

JMartel said:


> Rod is going to be attached to the chop. I'll drill probably a 2" deep hole in the chop, and epoxy the rod in place. Probably need to scuff up the end of the rod so the epoxy will hold better.


 I would drill a hole across the end of the rod as well as corresponding holes in the wood. Then tap in a roll pin from either side to capture the rod within the wood.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, I made a quick jig for cutting the tenons today. Just a simple T-square. Figured this would give me actually square shoulders rather than if I were to cut them by hand. 



















Got a total of 6 stretchers done. 










Also did the lower mortises on the 2 front legs today. First ever M&T joints. Not perfect, but they are a sliding fit and the shoulder covers up any nastiness so it works out. These will eventually get drawbored. 












I gotta say, having a bench to build this bench with would make it so much easier. Instead I have to clamp everything to my tablesaw.


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm guessing you're using a router for your tenons? 

First ones huh? Aren't they kind of fun? It's looking great so far. Just make sure your mortises aren't too nasty. You want the wood glue to have something to bite. If it's too out of whack you may want to use epoxy.

If jigs and tools were chairs and stools, we'd always have a place to sit.
~Stumpy Nubs


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

I used the router for the larger side. The smaller shoulders I did with a crappy craftsman dovetail saw. It's actually a decent sliding fit on most of them. Takes a few taps with the mallet to get them seated. And they will be drawbored so there won't be an issue with the glue. The bottom mortise looks ugly because it hasn't been chopped out yet. That was just after drilling it out with a 1/2" drill bit.

I should get the rest of the mortises chopped out tomorrow, and with any luck the bench will be standing tomorrow as well. Won't be ready to be worked on, but at least I can get it standing. Then take it back apart to work on the vises. I have to modify my wagon vise design a bit as the screws are a bit different than I had originally planned on.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Up early today and I got the majority of the frame dry fit together. I still have to add the upper stretchers, but I can't do that until I tenon the top of the legs. Now it's time to go kayaking for a bit.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

JMartel said:


> Up early today and I got the majority of the frame dry fit together. I still have to add the upper stretchers, but I can't do that *until I tenon the top of the legs*. Now it's time to go kayaking for a bit.



Huh? Why don't you just mortise the tops of the legs like you did on the bottom? *OR are you going to mortise the legs into the bottom of the top?* :blink:

A dado/groove in the tops of the legs would allow the aprons/stretchers to be flush with the tops. Table saw, dado blade, depth stop on the fence, run 'em in, flip 'em over, chisel out the waste until square, BAM you're done. OR is this a hand tool only project?


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> Huh? Why don't you just mortise the tops of the legs like you did on the bottom? OR are you going to mortise the legs into the bottom of the top? :blink:
> 
> A dado/groove in the tops of the legs would allow the aprons/stretchers to be flush with the tops. Table saw, dado blade, depth stop on the fence, run 'em in, flip 'em over, chisel out the waste until square, BAM you're done. OR is this a hand tool only project?


I think the tenon on the top of the leg will go into a mortise in the bottom of the bench top (table).


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

cps said:


> I think the tenon on the top of the leg will go into a mortise in the bottom of the bench top (table).


This. Maybe I might not be using the proper terminology, but basically this.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Like this:










And then I will be routing out the underside of the top to accept those.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Frame? Check.










Bearing? Check.










Threw the top on to see what it will look like.










I'm thinking it's starting to look like a bench.


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

Think it's starting to look like a nice bench!

If jigs and tools were chairs and stools, we'd always have a place to sit.
~Stumpy Nubs


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Wasn't able to get much done today or yesterday due to work, but I did manage to square up one side of each top half.


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## Effingham (Dec 2, 2012)

Looking really good!


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Nice looking bench. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Crusader (Jan 14, 2013)

JMartel said:


> Wasn't able to get much done today or yesterday due to work, but I did manage to square up one side of each top half.


Dang it! Don't you just hate it when your saw runs out of battery, seems to always happen half way thru the cut. :laughing:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Crusader said:


> Dang it! Don't you just hate it when your saw runs out of battery, seems to always happen half way thru the cut. :laughing:


When it comes to cordless you can never have too many bats!


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Crusader said:


> Dang it! Don't you just hate it when your saw runs out of battery, seems to always happen half way thru the cut. :laughing:


Hey it was hot yesterday (for Seattle). I wasn't used to the heat and had to take a break. 

Sadly, yet another day of having to stay late at work, which made me get caught in traffic and over doubled my commute time home. Probably won't get much done tonight.


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## 27207 (Jan 25, 2012)

JMartel said:


> Hey it was hot yesterday (for Seattle). I wasn't used to the heat and had to take a break.
> 
> Sadly, yet another day of having to stay late at work, which made me get caught in traffic and over doubled my commute time home. Probably won't get much done tonight.


I was just up there with my family for a wedding. The weather was great four the four days, but you're not kidding about that traffic! I don't think I could do that daily.

If jigs and tools were chairs and stools, we'd always have a place to sit.
~Stumpy Nubs


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

I normally work 7-4. Traffic isn't terrible then. If I have to stay late, like today, and leave at 5:30, then traffic is a solid 12 miles of stop and go for me. I-5 is worse, but I luckily don't have to take that or I-90. Luckily, I go the opposite direction of most traffic.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Here's a typical Key Largo Traffic Jam:


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

JMartel,

This thing is looking awesome. I agree with you - it's been hot as you know what this week. I actually made it out to the garage to get some work done because our garage is on the north side of the house, so it's the coolest part of the house in the evenings! 

Can't wait to see the finished workbench.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm interested to see how the linear bearing works out.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Haven't updated in a few days. The mother in law was in town, so I was playing tourist the last few days. Combine that with being stuck at work last week means little progress was made. 

Sunday we went out to the San Juans, and managed to catch a passing Orca Pod when we went to Lime Kiln State Park.










Tonight, I did the glue-up for the chop, widened the slot for the wagon vise, glued up the wagon block, and glued up the end cap for the front slab. Goal is to have at least one working vise tomorrow.


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## Smith Brother (Dec 9, 2012)

Be careful now, you could end up with a bench so nice, you won't want to use it. LOL

Very nice, but in my shop it would look like, well, I won't say such on this site. Enjoy. 

Wishing you well,

Dale in Indy


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Oh, it's already being used. Even though the top is not fastened down, I was already using it to beat stuff on with as big of a mallet as I could find. Now, if I was to be making it out of Maple, Walnut, Bubinga, etc that others sometimes do, then I might be a bit more hesitant. Oak is cheap, ugly (in my opinion), and works great in this purpose.


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## Smith Brother (Dec 9, 2012)

Good for you, USE IT. I have been in shops where the bench looked like it has never been used. 

It' a WORK BENCH, love mine, because I USE IT..... Now my coffee table is a different story, it's 63 years old and rare.....

Dale in Indy


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, some good news and some bad news.

The good news is, I got the top mounted on, the wagon vice mostly installed, the chop rough cut, and everything is looking good. The front slab still needs the breadboard end installed.











The bad news is, the leg vice racks. Enough to make it a major annoyance. Not sure why, everything says it shouldn't rack, but it does. Unfortunately I believe I'm going to have to abandon the idea and switch back to a traditional wood parallel guide with a pin.


Also, Saturday night I threw together a quick storage cabinet with some pocket screws. Uses 2 sheets of ply, and holds a lot of storage:









And I organized my wood collection a bit.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

JMartel said:


> Well, some good news and some bad news.
> 
> The good news is, I got the top mounted on, the wagon vice mostly installed, the chop rough cut, and everything is looking good. The front slab still needs the breadboard end installed.
> 
> ...


That is too bad about the leg vise.....perhaps the screw hole and linear bearing are not parallel. Did you use a drill press when you drilled the holes?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

cps said:


> That is too bad about the leg vise.....perhaps the screw hole and linear bearing are not parallel. Did you use a drill press when you drilled the holes?


The screw hole and linear bearing are parallel. Otherwise it will bind when opening/closing the vice. And I can visibly see it toe out at the top when I tighten it down. 

I did use a drill press. 

So tonight will be spent adding the breadboard end, and getting the shaft/bearing out and trying to fix it with a more traditional guide system. I'll likely add skateboard wheels in the future to help guide it easier.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

JMartel said:


> The screw hole and linear bearing are parallel. Otherwise it will bind when opening/closing the vice. And I can visibly see it toe out at the top when I tighten it down.
> 
> I did use a drill press.
> 
> So tonight will be spent adding the breadboard end, and getting the shaft/bearing out and trying to fix it with a more traditional guide system. I'll likely add skateboard wheels in the future to help guide it easier.


 
Just guessing....could there be a slight twist in your chop?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

cps said:


> Just guessing....could there be a slight twist in your chop?


Nope. The chop is mounted such that the top contacts the workbench top first, leaving a good inch at the bottom before the bottom contacts the leg. If I clamp something thin, like 1/2" or 1/4", then it will clamp just fine. If I clamp 3/4" or thicker, then it will rack out of plane and not hold it.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

JMartel said:


> Nope. The chop is mounted such that the top contacts the workbench top first, leaving a good inch at the bottom before the bottom contacts the leg. If I clamp something thin, like 1/2" or 1/4", then it will clamp just fine. If I clamp 3/4" or thicker, then it will rack out of plane and not hold it.


 
Hopefully the traditional leg vise mechanism will work with no problems….I was really interested in the linear bearing approach as it looked like a good solution. Good luck with the rest of the build. The bench is looking very nice. I am still a month or two out from my bench build.


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## wood shavings (Mar 20, 2009)

So I have a question for you if you are going to go with a leg vise sinario s.p. what will you gain. If I am thinking correctly won't you have to make manual adjustment holes spacers of some sort this still leaves you with some racking. Find out what most of your work is going to be adjust to that and you will lessen the racking by making small shims blocks. If I have something that is six inches wide that I am holding a six inch bloc get tossed between the bottom of my vise and the leg work by and large.

Jerry


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

wood shavings said:


> So I have a question for you if you are going to go with a leg vise sinario s.p. what will you gain. If I am thinking correctly won't you have to make manual adjustment holes spacers of some sort this still leaves you with some racking. Find out what most of your work is going to be adjust to that and you will lessen the racking by making small shims blocks. If I have something that is six inches wide that I am holding a six inch bloc get tossed between the bottom of my vise and the leg work by and large. Jerry


That's a good idea, jerry. Ill have to give that a shot. 


I fitted the breadboard end onto the front slab tonight and mounted the wagon vice.

EDIT: Thanks for the idea, Jerry. It works just fine. So I'll fashion up some spacer blocks that will straddle the shaft and use as is.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

JMartel said:


> That's a good idea, jerry. Ill have to give that a shot.
> 
> 
> I fitted the breadboard end onto the front slab tonight and mounted the wagon vice.
> ...


I think I have a mental picture of the blocks….can you post a picture when you get a chance?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Sure. I haven't made any yet, but they are going to be square horseshoe shaped that will slide over the shaft so they don't fall out. 

I was able to put all my weight on a piece of 4/4 stock that was clamped and it didn't move after I put a spacer block in.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

JMartel said:


> Sure. I haven't made any yet, but they are going to be square horseshoe shaped that will slide over the shaft so they don't fall out.
> 
> I was able to put all my weight on a piece of 4/4 stock that was clamped and it didn't move after I put a spacer block in.


Will the blocks be slightly smaller or larger than the stock you are clamping?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Larger. Smaller would toe the top out, which reduces clamping force. Larger keeps the toe in so it clamps at the very top. I will probably only go in 1/2" increments. No need for finer graduation than that. 1 1/2" block, and a few 7/8" or 1" blocks should cover everything I need.

Tonight I'll be drilling dogholes and chamfering them/edges of the bench. I'll also permanently attach the top (just sitting on there now) with glue/dowels. After that, it's just the inserts that need made, and adding a basic finish. Home stretch on the bench build and I'll get some good photos later for you guys with a real camera.


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## wood shavings (Mar 20, 2009)

*blocks*

I just have blocks that I made with three dimensions on them 2''x3''x4'' and then an other one that is 3''x4''x5'' these cover most situation and if you need more turn the blocks to the depth you want them. They were made out of maple.

Jerry


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

wood shavings said:


> I just have blocks that I made with three dimensions on them 2''x3''x4'' and then an other one that is 3''x4''x5'' these cover most situation and if you need more turn the blocks to the depth you want them. They were made out of maple.
> 
> Jerry


Ok...now the blocks jarred my memory of this topic in Schwarz's book "The Workbench Design Book". Towards the end of the book, he discusses comments from a reader that advocates doing away with a parallel guide and using blocks. This discussion was on an angled leg vise and the reader indicated the foot of the jaw rested on the floor to prevent the jaw from spinning. So, on a vertical leg vise, would there be any spinning if you did not have a parallel guide? Or would gravity keep the jaw vertical.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

So I want to ask: Why the gap? Is it so you can saw between two supports?


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## wood shavings (Mar 20, 2009)

*design*

With this type of vise the screw does not have guided on either side of it but relies on the brace at the bottom of the leg to keep it from moving and racking as well. The vise allows you make saw cuts that run the length of the bench.

Jerry


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

NetDoc said:


> So I want to ask: Why the gap? Is it so you can saw between two supports?


There's that, and it will allow me to have separate tool holders to keep tools immediately at hand. I will be making inserts to go in there to hold chisels, a deep one to hold a plane, a flat top, an area to hold marking tools/pencils/measuring stuff, etc.

Should I decide I don't use those, I can get some more oak and make it solid.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Almost there...


















And I added french cleats above the bench tonight.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Looking good. What method did you use to attach the breadboard end where your wagon vise is? Can't tell from the pics


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Mortise and tenon, with dowels to reinforce the end. That's been the joinery for everything so far. I'm a big fan of M&T now. The ones I did for the legs/stretchers were the first ones I ever did.


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

that vice is a BEAST!


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

It's more of, I got lazy when I was building it. I cut the rough shape, as seen in the photo, mounted up the vice hardware, and moved onto other stuff. Then last night I just ran a chamfer bit around the outside edges after I was done chamfering the dogholes and called it good.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

JMartel said:


> Mortise and tenon, with dowels to reinforce the end. That's been the joinery for everything so far. I'm a big fan of M&T now. The ones I did for the legs/stretchers were the first ones I ever did.


My first M&T were also when I made my bench. If you're going to get any holdfasts, I can recommend the Gramercy ones from TFWW. At first I thought they didn't hold well in my bench but it was a matter of learning the technique of hitting them just so with my wooden mallet. Takes less force than you'd think.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

That's who I've heard makes good holdfasts. I haven't ordered any yet, but I plan to in the future.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Jmartel, you're in Seattle, right? If you want to support a local, I had custom made holdfasts (my bench has 1" holes) by BallardForge. Reasonable, custom and local, just saying.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

sawdustfactory said:


> Jmartel, you're in Seattle, right? If you want to support a local, I had custom made holdfasts (my bench has 1" holes) by BallardForge. Reasonable, custom and local, just saying.


I'm actually kind of in Ballard. What price did they want for them?


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

He did mine for $150 for 2, but they were 1" diameter.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Didn't realize Gramercy was so inexpensive. Get them there if you can ;-0


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Can you take a picture right down the center, please?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Down the center between the slabs?


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

NetDoc said:


> Can you take a picture right down the center, please?


Like this?










Nothing there, currently aside from the side stretchers. I will be routing out a rabbet on each slab there to hold the tool holders/solid board eventually.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

That's precisely what I was looking for! Thanks!!! I really like your bench, and my questions are to completely understand it as I'm about to build one for me. This will be a first bench build for me and I want to do it right. 

Here's another one pertaining to the sliding vise on the right. Is there a reason for long throw? With the dogs, I can't see a reason for much more than the distance between them.

Here's one on the base. I am thinking that you have the overhang to accommodate the long throw on your vise. How much weight/pressure can you put on the table right by the vise before the other legs lift off the floor? Could this have been done with the legs at the four corners to improve stability? Would this have compromised the function or usefulness of the table and if so, how?


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

NetDoc said:


> That's precisely what I was looking for! Thanks!!! I really like your bench, and my questions are to completely understand it as I'm about to build one for me. This will be a first bench build for me and I want to do it right.
> 
> Here's another one pertaining to the sliding vise on the right. Is there a reason for long throw? With the dogs, I can't see a reason for much more than the distance between them.
> 
> Here's one on the base. I am thinking that you have the overhang to accommodate the long throw on your vise. How much weight/pressure can you put on the table right by the vise before the other legs lift off the floor? Could this have been done with the legs at the four corners to improve stability? Would this have compromised the function or usefulness of the table and if so, how?


I am in the same boat you are as I am going to build a bench in the next few months. This book has been very helpful:

The Workbench Design Book: The Art & Philosophy of Building Better Benches

The Workbench Design Book: The Art & Philosophy of Building Better Benches: Christopher Schwarz: 9781440310409: Amazon.com: Books


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

NetDoc said:


> That's precisely what I was looking for! Thanks!!! I really like your bench, and my questions are to completely understand it as I'm about to build one for me. This will be a first bench build for me and I want to do it right.
> 
> Here's another one pertaining to the sliding vise on the right. Is there a reason for long throw? With the dogs, I can't see a reason for much more than the distance between them.
> 
> Here's one on the base. I am thinking that you have the overhang to accommodate the long throw on your vise. How much weight/pressure can you put on the table right by the vise before the other legs lift off the floor? Could this have been done with the legs at the four corners to improve stability? Would this have compromised the function or usefulness of the table and if so, how?


No real reason for the longer throw other than that was the vices capacity and it was easier to build the top without that part in than trying to chop out the whole area underneath with a shorter throw.\

Plus, there's the idea that you can clamp a board between the wagon vice block and the main bench slab. Not sure that I'll ever use that, but there's an option for it.

Correct. The leg design was due to the sliding block. As it stands I believe I can sit on the end and it won't lift up. It's a heavy bench (and only going to get heavier when I add drawers underneath). 

The way my wagon vice is designed, the moving block, the screw, and the breadboard end both hang below the main slab. If I had moved the legs/stretcher further outboard, they would interfere with the vice operation. A thicker top would be needed in order to fully encapsulate the vice pad that attaches to the block as it is roughly the same width as the thickness of the top. I don't want to take the chance of nicking it with a handplane or anything.




Also, off topic, nice profile photo. Unfortunately I haven't dove since last November when I went to Grand Cayman. I'm trying to finish out buying the rest of my gear so I can dive here in the sound, but the waters can be a bit chilly. 47-50 deg all year long. 

I'll be heading to the Galapagos in 2015 for a liveaboard trip as well.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Yeah, it looks like the moment created by the cantilever would not cause much if any instability, still it's good to ask. I really like how the vise is a part of the structure. However, I'm thinking that putting it next to the opening in the middle would allow you to really clamp close to where you are sawing as well as reduce the cantilever significantly. 

As for the pic, I actually dive for a living. I own the world's largest web site/forum for Scuba Diving: www.ScubaBoard.com. We have quite a number of good folk in your area who are willing to go diving.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

I read through that book and felt kind of let down. He had some interesting concepts, but they were eclipsed by his 'tude. I felt it was more about his achievements than an underlying philosophy of excellence in design and execution. I'll still be referring to it as it's on my Kindle Reader, but I feel I gained a lot more insight just by reading WWTalk and this thread in particular. 



cps said:


> I am in the same boat you are as I am going to build a bench in the next few months. This book has been very helpful:
> 
> The Workbench Design Book: The Art & Philosophy of Building Better Benches
> 
> The Workbench Design Book: The Art & Philosophy of Building Better Benches: Christopher Schwarz: 9781440310409: Amazon.com: Books


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

NetDoc said:


> I read through that book and felt kind of let down. He had some interesting concepts, but they were eclipsed by his 'tude. I felt it was more about his achievements than an underlying philosophy of excellence in design and execution. I'll still be referring to it as it's on my Kindle Reader, but I feel I gained a lot more insight just by reading WWTalk and this thread in particular.


 
Interesting take on the book…didn’t notice a ‘tude, I just interpreted it as his humor. Also, in this book, a lot of the chapters are written by others.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

NetDoc said:


> Yeah, it looks like the moment created by the cantilever would not cause much if any instability, still it's good to ask. I really like how the vise is a part of the structure. However, I'm thinking that putting it next to the opening in the middle would allow you to really clamp close to where you are sawing as well as reduce the cantilever significantly.
> 
> As for the pic, I actually dive for a living. I own the world's largest web site/forum for Scuba Diving: www.ScubaBoard.com. We have quite a number of good folk in your area who are willing to go diving.


I've visited Scubaboard a few times starting last year and signed up. I just have been busy so diving has fallen by the wayside this year. I'm hoping to get the last needed gear this winter/next spring and be able to get in the water more next year. I need a good farmer john wetsuit, mostly for the cold water.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

JMartel said:


> ...I'll be heading to the Galapagos in 2015 for a liveaboard trip as well.


I will babysit your bench while you are gone :laughing:

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

I've been wanting to start diving out here so bad. Living near the puget sound, it's just stupid to not get into it. I REALLY wanted to dive for crab and lingcod this year but it just wasn't in the works.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

cps said:


> Interesting take on the book…didn’t notice a ‘tude, I just interpreted it as his humor.


 I appreciate self deprecating humor. I'm not very impressed with peeps who go the other way. :laughing:


cps said:


> Also, in this book, a lot of the chapters are written by others.


 Then it's possible that the confusion of styles precipitated this impression I got. However, I really appreciate a good forum discussion. Lot's of conflicting view points and some good give and take. No one here seems to feel that they have a monopoly on how to play with wood and I like that.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

JMartel said:


> I need a good farmer john wetsuit, mostly for the cold water.


 You need a drysuit! :laughing: :blink:  

Did I mention I live in Key Largo? No wetsuits needed.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

NetDoc said:


> I appreciate self deprecating humor. I'm not very impressed with peeps who go the other way. :laughing: Then it's possible that the confusion of styles precipitated this impression I got. However, I really appreciate a good forum discussion. Lot's of conflicting view points and some good give and take. No one here seems to feel that they have a monopoly on how to play with wood and I like that.


I agree with you on this forum as I have learned a lot here as well….I also learned a lot from the book. In this particular thread I learned of the alternative approach of using a linear bearing for the leg vise. In the book, the author discusses split bench designs and using tool trays along with the pros/cons. This is my last post on the book topic as I don’t want to vector off anymore from this bench build. Good luck with your bench build.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I stumbled across this build on You Tube*

For what it's worth:


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