# Yes - it works !!



## Longknife

I have been planning for some time to build a Thien separator for my DC as I think it would be a great improvement. I'm tired of having the lower bag only half full but the dust bag completely clogged. If I remove the dust bag there is a lot of dust on the cone wich indicates that there is a lot of it coming up into the dustbag.









Despite that I have been hesitating on building one since my shop is small and the separator would take up valuable space.

Then I saw this http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.msg819#msg819 Bingo! Exactly what I needed, a Thien baffle built into the DC. If it works it would solve all my problems. There is only one way to find out if it works - build one and so I did.

Instead of the dowels I used metal brackets to attach the baffle






















I assembled the DC and fired it up. I saw immiediatly that something was different. There was no heavy swirl in the lower bag and the chips were gently falling down, and stayed there. When I removed the dust bag there was very little dust on the cone. This was an easy way to improve the DC!


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## woodnthings

*Nice job*

I noticed that you didn't include the "neutral vane" referred to in the article.http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.msg819#msg819
Was there a specific reason?... is this a work in progress?
When I found the article initially I was thinking GREAT idea, since the footprint is the same and shop space is premium. Within the text of the article there is this link on the step by step for the neutral vane: 
http://workingwoods.com/hot_rodding_a_DC.htm
There are 2 separate approaches here that he ended up combining.
Interesting and creative. :thumbsup: bill
BTW thanks for posting this, it will help all of us!


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## Longknife

Yes, I concidered the "neutral vane" as well, but then I discovered that he doubted himself that it would do any good, in fact he thought it could be the opposit, so I excluded it. Seems to work just fine without it.


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## woodnthings

*Vane vs Collar?*

I see he added a collar then discovered it didn't improve much.
Quote: 
*UPDATE:*
After getting my ductwork hooked up and using the DC a bit, I discovered that quite a bit of the larger chips were indeed getting blown up into the filter, something I didn't want. I suspected it might be because of the collar, and since it was easily removable, I tried it with and without the collar. Without a doubt, the *collarless* version had substantially fewer chips falling out of the filter after shutting off the DC, so I suspect fewer chips are being blown up in the filter in the first place. I shot a quick video to prove the point.

There was no mention of the *vane* not improving performance to my knowledge.......so I'm confused here :blink: bill
BTW It will be real interesting to see the guts of the Jet Vortex Cone and see how much is similar to these mods!


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## Longknife

This is a quote from the discussion on the forum:

"I'm not sure about this, but I think the general consensus is that if you have Phil's baffle installed, you don't need the neutral vane, and quite possibly that neutral vane could be doing more harm than good... I am NOT sure though... I just seem to recall a post here about this..."

and the reply

"Thanks for the comments. I think I've also seen something here saying the neutral vane is not necessary, but I figured I'd give it a try before removing it, since I used pop rivets to install it. So far it doesn't seem to be hampering anything, but I'm open to suggestions for things to look for to see if it is."

I didn't want to put something in that maybe not was necessary. At least I will run this configuration for a while and see how it works. So far the lower bag is half full and there is very little evidence of any dust in the upper bag.


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## thegrgyle

*Thanks for sharing...*

Very nice job on that Longknife. Thanks for sharing too, because there are alot that have the harborfreight DC.... Looks like are real easy "fix" too.


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## TS3660

But isn't a major reason for a chip separator to keep chips from going through the impeller of the DC? How does this keep that from happening?


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## Longknife

TS3660 said:


> But isn't a major reason for a chip separator to keep chips from going through the impeller of the DC? How does this keep that from happening?


With this setup the chips do go through the impeller. The big advantage is that the chips are not swirling up into the dust bag and clogging it. Possibly a stand alone separator is more efficient, I don't know, haven't tried any. This is the small shop solution.


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## dbhost

TS3660 said:


> But isn't a major reason for a chip separator to keep chips from going through the impeller of the DC? How does this keep that from happening?


That is one advantage, but not the main reason to build a baffle. The main reason for a separator is to keep the filter clean for as long as physically possible by putting the dust / debris in a separate area, either a dust bin, or the lower bag, and keeping it there, so that the filter can flow better. That is the way I first set up, however the sound of small cutoffs that get sucked up the Shark Guard and into my impeller sounding like gun shots convinced me to go with the pre-separator personally. IF I had a shop say in a shed, I would have set up differently...

OP, you did a really nice job on that. I am curious if that bracket in the drop slot impacts performance much, would it be too much to ask for updates to this after a few bag fill / empty cycles? I mainly wonder if long planer / jointer shavings will hang on it. I have trouble with those on my upright stays on mine...

Woodnthings, The neutral vane is supposed to do pretty much the same thing, partially as the baffle, which is to induce a cyclonic swirl in the lower chamber, but it lacks the ability to keep material from coming back up. Some have tried it, a few with improved performance, a few with decreased, so the jury is out on that at this point. Might be worth rigging one up as a temporary test to see if it helps, make it permanent if it does, yank it out if it doesn't... You saw the discussion with Vaughn (still love the plum crazy paint he's using!) there are a few others that have tried the neutral vane on other forums... Not everyone has good luck with that setup. But those that do report improved separation...


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## Longknife

dbhost said:


> I am curious if that bracket in the drop slot impacts performance much, would it be too much to ask for updates to this after a few bag fill / empty cycles? I mainly wonder if long planer / jointer shavings will hang on it. I have trouble with those on my upright stays on mine...
> .


I planed some scandinavian pine heartwood today and these chips can be very difficult. Used to clog up the crosshairs on the DC before I removed them. I looked into the DC and there was nothing on the bracket, the cone was completely clean and the filter bag looked as new. I will keep you updated on how it performes when I have used it more.


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## dbhost

Thanks!


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## streetdoc

Longknife said:


> I planed some scandinavian pine heartwood today and these chips can be very difficult. Used to clog up the crosshairs on the DC before I removed them. I looked into the DC and there was nothing on the bracket, the cone was completely clean and the filter bag looked as new. I will keep you updated on how it performes when I have used it more.


About to add these to my Powermatic 75 and plan to mount them this way. Any regrets now that you have used it a good while?


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## epicfail48

Nice build. I just did something similar with a shopvac, and it really does make a word of difference


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