# Biscuit Joiners Are Terrible Tools But....



## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

While wandering around Lowe's today I picked up a copy of Fine Woodworking magazine and browsed through it. They had an article on the much maligned biscuit joiner and how one woodworker has a technique to improve their accuracy. Fine Woodworking had an article on biscuit joinery?! Heresy!!! I know many members of this forum have no use for biscuit joiners but I thought the guy had a good technique.

He made a 'table' for his biscuit joiner so it was stationery. This takes the error out of applying the joiner to the edge of a board, which I have had trouble with myself with my DeWalt. I never seem to get it exactly level and then end up with misalignment between the joined boards (I usually use the joiner for edge gluing longer boards to help with assembly/alignment). Then it's belt sander time.

The fellow had a lot of tips for using the joiner while attached to a 'table', including what types of joints to avoid. I thought I'd pass it on.

Bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

dodgeboy77 said:


> While wandering around Lowe's today I picked up a copy of Fine Woodworking magazine and browsed through it. They had an article on the much maligned biscuit joiner and how one woodworker has a technique to improve their accuracy. Fine Woodworking had an article on biscuit joinery?! Heresy!!! I know many members of this forum have no use for biscuit joiners but I thought the guy had a good technique.
> 
> He made a 'table' for his biscuit joiner so it was stationery. This takes the error out of applying the joiner to the edge of a board, which I have had trouble with myself with my DeWalt. I never seem to get it exactly level and then end up with misalignment between the joined boards (I usually use the joiner for edge gluing longer boards to help with assembly/alignment). Then it's belt sander time.
> 
> ...


Think about the suggestion. A slot cutting router bit in a router table can work the same way. If you use a miter gauge, or a guide to move the board into the slot cutter, that would orient the slot.

It can be done with a hand held router. The hand held ability of the biscuit joiner is what the appeal really is. I don't use them, as any joint that may benefit from a biscuit, will be improved by a spline cut and an appropriate spline stock used, instead of the biscuit composite.









 







.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Trade that biscuit jointer in for a domino, problem solved.


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## BlackWater (Nov 20, 2009)

Titebond II or III I've never had an edge joint fail. What's a biscuit joiner?


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Trade that biscuit jointer in for a domino, problem solved.


 
trade it in ? a domino is about $1100. a slot mortiser is about $200


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

bob sacamano said:


> trade it in ? a domino is about $1100. a slot mortiser is about $200


875.00.

I guess with all the cutters and sippo domino's I bought it was a little over 1100.

Worth every penny.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

dodgeboy77 said:


> He made a 'table' for his biscuit joiner so it was stationery. This takes the error out of applying the joiner to the edge of a board, which I have had trouble with myself with my DeWalt. I never seem to get it exactly level and then end up with misalignment between the joined boards (I usually use the joiner for edge gluing longer boards to help with assembly/alignment). Then it's belt sander time.
> 
> The fellow had a lot of tips for using the joiner while attached to a 'table', including what types of joints to avoid. I thought I'd pass it on.
> 
> Bill


i have the dewalt and never have a problem with it. for some reason woodworkers think that a slot mortiser is for mortise and tenon joinery. ITS NOT.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm not a wwing purist, in that I don't have a set view of what techniques should or should not be used, so long as they do the job....traditional or not. I'm all for easier, faster, stronger, cheaper, etc (I love pocket holes). The biggest reason I got rid of my biscuit joiner was because it was a tool that was exclusively used for a technique that was largely unnecessary. Most of the time biscuits just weren't necessary, and when I thought they'd be beneficial the router works just fine for cutting the slots.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think the biscuit cutter can be a very useful tool and like any tool takes skill from the operator. I think the biggest problem operating them is the return spring. I believe for safety sake and the company being worried about being sued they put a return spring on them that is too strong. You end up having to use so much pressure fighting the return spring, you end up lifting the back side of the joiner up making the cut a little higher than you would otherwise. I think if they made an adjustable hook that would grasp the underneath side of the board it would eliminate this problem.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I think the biscuit cutter can be a very useful tool and like any tool takes skill from the operator. I think the biggest problem operating them is the return spring. I believe for safety sake and the company being worried about being sued they put a return spring on them that is too strong. You end up having to use so much pressure fighting the return spring, you end up lifting the back side of the joiner up making the cut a little higher than you would otherwise. I think if they made an adjustable hook that would grasp the underneath side of the board it would eliminate this problem.


 
your 1st sentence sums up the post well. i agree


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

I really like my biscuit jointer. For cabinet construction, it is hard to find a better alignment tool for cabinet to face-frame mating. You just have to keep it properly adjusted and know how to use it.


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## Domer (Mar 23, 2008)

I have some chairs and a bench made with biscuits that have survived for over 20 years and not with gentile use either. I made 4 chairs, three of which survive, the 4th broke when my son slammed in on the ground. I don't think many chairs would have survived that. 

I have switched to the Domino, thought. Mainly because you can use thinner stretchers and it is stronger. 

But the biscuits are pretty strong.

Domer


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Has anyone else seen the originally referenced article in Fine Woodworking? I wondered about others opinions on it.

Bill


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## cocheseuga (Dec 15, 2010)

I've seen something else where one used a biscuit joiner in a stationary application. Its what I am going to do with mine, which has a crappy plastic fence.

In regards to what people think about particular tools, good for them. Their opinion is worth about what I paid for it.


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## MTL (Jan 21, 2012)

cocheseuga said:


> I've seen something else where one used a biscuit joiner in a stationary application. Its what I am going to do with mine, which has a crappy plastic fence.
> 
> In regards to what people think about particular tools, good for them. Their opinion is worth about what I paid for it.


Awesome! I could not agree more. Fast and easy is not cheating, especially when you are not selling what you build.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


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## Taylormade (Feb 3, 2011)

In one of my books or magazines on shop built jigs, they had a biscuit joining station that I thought looked interesting, but I remember thinking "why would you need one of those when it's so easy to use?" I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who doesn't have problems using them. I'll peruse the mags today and see if I can find it again.

I really like using biscuits for dry fitting. I like to make sure it all makes sense and is going to function before adding glue.


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## Bill White 2 (Jun 23, 2012)

Biscuit joiners are like Shopsmiths. Some love 'em and some hate 'em.
I've had good results from my joiner, and my old Magna BS was a good light-duty saw.
Joinery is such an art in itself. So many ways to do the same thing.
Bill


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

I have a real nice PorterCable that my sister bought me. At the time she was hesitant to buy me anything that she hadn't seen Norm use. 

It is a high quality tool, and easy to use. It has a good fence, probably as good as any out there. But, I rarely use the fence. I control the height of the cut with shims and jigs. 

Like the author, I've found that biscuits joiners work best if they are held solid.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## Treeoflifestairs.com (Jan 9, 2012)

I build custom staircases and use the biscuit joiner when I build my treads, landings, and cap. Sometimes I have pieces that need to be laminated that are 10'+ long. Boards that long will inevitably have some kind of bow or wobble of some kind and the biscuit helps dramatically to keep them level with each other. I usually can't use spline either because many times the end grain of the joint is visible. 

It's never been a thought of mine that the joint would be perfectly flush though. The parts always go through the drum sander. The biscuits just make it so there are fewer passes through the drum sander.


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

The article in question was written by Michael Fortune and as long as someone has a better portfolio than him they are welcome to call it heresy in my book... I am eyeing up that pyramid table in the side bar, gettin' mucho excited about a variation of the doors.

I liked the idea and plan to try it out. I have machines/tools to do joints in a BUNCH of ways but no single method is the do all be all. I love my Domino BUT I think it gets more praise vs biscuit joiners that it truely deserves, most of the time it is compared to biscuits joiners costing 1/4 or less of the Domino's price. Compared to a Lamello it becomes more of a comparison of the basic joints they make and takes out the precision and accuracy issues.


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

Here's another vote for the Biscuit Jointer. I have used the PC and DW. The Dewalt I bought off Craigslist for $80, and I was the 3rd owner. But it was not used very much. It works way better than the PC. I use it mostly for alignment of assemblies. 
I'd absolutely have the Domino, but at 4X the cost, can't afford it. Oh well.....


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

knotscott said:


> I'm not a wwing purist, in that I don't have a set view of what techniques should or should not be used, so long as they do the job....traditional or not. I'm all for easier, faster, stronger, cheaper, etc (I love pocket holes). The biggest reason I got rid of my biscuit joiner was because it was a tool that was exclusively used for a technique that was largely unnecessary. Most of the time biscuits just weren't necessary, and when I thought they'd be beneficial the router works just fine for cutting the slots.


My main reason for using a biscuit jointer is alignment. I don't put glue on them very often, that just makes gluing up tedious.

I especially like to use them on miters when using plywood. The veneers on modern plywoods is about .017" thick so perfect alignment is really critical.


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## USMCSergeant (Aug 21, 2012)

I wish I could afford the domino, or any other festool tools. But with only doing this part time, as pretty much a hobby I can't afford or justify that expense. I think if it ever turns into a business that is getting decent work, I'll justify that expense. 

On biscuit joiners, I've used them for alignment, but on my last project I used dowels and I felt they aligned and added strength to the joint as well.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I like my Dewalt but*

I don't use it according to the directions...HUH? I didn't read them, it's a guy thing: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/biscuit-joiner-project-buddy-48967/

FWW article: http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/article/all-about-biscuit-joiners.aspx


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## EdS (Mar 21, 2013)

I have a PC biscuit cutter and like others here I use it mostly for alignment. Like any other tool, it has to be used for the purpose it was designed and with some thought put into it. 

I think it can be a used as a quick and easier alternative to a T&G joint. Also, the biscuits are designed to swell once they are exposed to moisture and therefore expand in slot when glued. (if you doubt this, try removing one after glue has been applied and it has set for about 5 min.) This is a feature some may not be aware of. 

Nobody would count on it to be the structural equivalent of a M&T or a dowel joint, but of course, that is not how it is intended to be used.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I have a Porter Cable biscuit jointer. I'm sure it was never ment to be an alignment tool as the slot is cut larger than the biscuit. I use it on face frames and carcase construction. It's a good way to add strength to a not so good butt joint without putting much time in it.

While it may require some skill to use. It is designed to reduce error to a minimum. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## TonyB10 (Apr 6, 2013)

*Me too*

I've used my Makita biscuit joiner for hundreds of jobs, never a problem.
Except one, the old saying:
'Measure twice cut once'

Cheers all

Tony


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

123 four


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## Woodwart (Dec 11, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> Think about the suggestion. A slot cutting router bit in a router table can work the same way. If you use a miter gauge, or a guide to move the board into the slot cutter, that would orient the slot.
> 
> It can be done with a hand held router. The hand held ability of the biscuit joiner is what the appeal really is. I don't use them, as any joint that may benefit from a biscuit, will be improved by a spline cut and an appropriate spline stock used, instead of the biscuit composite.


I thought that myself, about using a router table and a slot cutter. I don't like biscuit joinery myself, just on principle. :thumbdown:


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## Futurepast (Jun 18, 2012)

I have had and used biscut cutters since they came out. The first ones were hard to use, didn't cut that acurate...blah blau. I just bought the newest Porter Cable. I love it. The slots are so tight I have to tap the biscuts in and the surface macth is so close that an orbatal finish is all I do. Re think spending a bunch of bucks!!!!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Futurepast said:


> I have had and used biscut cutters since they came out. The first ones were hard to use, didn't cut that acurate...blah blau. I just bought the newest Porter Cable. I love it. The slots are so tight I have to tap the biscuts in and the surface macth is so close that an orbatal finish is all I do. Re think spending a bunch of bucks!!!!


That's good to know. I have the first version PC made. The cutter was wider than the biscuit, to allow for alignment and a little swell. I tend to get my definitive answer from Fine Woodworking and they have a different take on biscuit jointers than some have posted here. I believe they have a place in woodworking but not a must have tool.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

There's a lot of hate for biscuit joiners here. But I really like mine, and use it quite a bit (there are over 40 biscuits in the table I just built. I find the alignment of the boards to be near perfect, and it cuts slots tight enough that most biscuits have to tapped in with a mallet. I guess if you didn't know how to use a router, you'd hate them too (the universal "you").


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

I posit that like all in woodworking, there are many ways to skin the cat, and many situations. Some of those situations call for more precision and strength, greater aesthetics, and more fun than other situations that are all about fast, down and dirty results. I once heard some more knowledgeable types than me extol the virtues of the biscuit joiner for its speed, ease, and practicality in constructing jigs and other shop aids. That's what I bought mine for.


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