# Getting rid of swirl marks with...new swirl marks..?



## soundmun (Apr 23, 2015)

Hi.
Im trying to polish this coffee table , its been multy layered by rusteleum 2x gloss and waited for weeks to fully cure.
Then wet sanded to 3000 grit .
then polished ( using drill and pad attachment ) first using turtle wax polishing xompound with medium soft pad and then 2x scratch remover by mcguires. all shown in the pic. Im before final polish with mcguires ultimate polish but stll got those annying swirl marks.



Question is why am i getting those? is this from the turtle wax or the scratch remover? 
Should i continue with 2X scratch remover or will the ultimate polish erase this and make a true gloss finish?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Well, Turtle wax compound is terrible, I bought a can of it because that was all the store had. I used it for about ten minutes and threw it in the trash. Any other brand I've used seems to work, 3M or Meguiar's is what I use mostly. Anyway the compound won't cause swirl marks, that had to be caused by sanding. Perhaps there was a bit of grit on the sandpaper or maybe the sandpaper was defective. You might get another package of sandpaper and wet sand it again. 

Compounding a finish back to a gloss will take a lot of elbow grease. It would save you a lot of work if you would get a 7" auto polisher with a lambswool bonnet. This would quickly bring the finish to a high gloss. Just do it outdoors though, it gets a bit messy slinging rubbing compound all over you and everything around. https://www.harborfreight.com/7-in-10-amp-variable-speed-polisher-60626.html


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## soundmun (Apr 23, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> Well, Turtle wax compound is terrible, I bought a can of it because that was all the store had. I used it for about ten minutes and threw it in the trash. Any other brand I've used seems to work, 3M or Meguiar's is what I use mostly. Anyway the compound won't cause swirl marks, that had to be caused by sanding. Perhaps there was a bit of grit on the sandpaper or maybe the sandpaper was defective. You might get another package of sandpaper and wet sand it again.
> 
> Compounding a finish back to a gloss will take a lot of elbow grease. It would save you a lot of work if you would get a 7" auto polisher with a lambswool bonnet. This would quickly bring the finish to a high gloss. Just do it outdoors though, it gets a bit messy slinging rubbing compound all over you and everything around. https://www.harborfreight.com/7-in-10-amp-variable-speed-polisher-60626.html


Will orbital sander or angle grinder be suited also for the job as an auto polisher ?


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

That Turtle wax compound is WAY too coarse for what you are doing.

Stick with the Maguires, you may have to get something a little heavier cut than the ultra polish. Foam pads come in different densities that produce different levels of "cut" as well.

Nothing exclusive about auto RO versus a woodworking RO, just make sure you have variable speed so you can control the cut.


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

A drill and pad is OK for small areas, but a 3" pad tends to show swirls on a larger surface even with fine polish. The 7" polisher like what Steve linked to would be the tool of choice. In fact that one looks very much like my $200 Makita 9227C.

The level of gloss you can get from polishing is a function of the hardness of the finish. I don't know what technology that Rustolium uses, but soft paints like enamel and polyurethane will not take a real high gloss polish. Lacquer and catalyzed urethane will - they get hard.

When I paint cars I'll sand out orange peel after a day and polish to the first level. But it takes a week before the clear hardens to a point where a final polish can be done without leaving swirls. And that's with catalyzed urethane clear. The finish you have might need another month of curing before it's hard enough to give you what you want.


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## soundmun (Apr 23, 2015)

shoot summ said:


> That Turtle wax compound is WAY too coarse for what you are doing.
> 
> Stick with the Maguires, you may have to get something a little heavier cut than the ultra polish. Foam pads come in different densities that produce different levels of "cut" as well.
> 
> Nothing exclusive about auto RO versus a woodworking RO, just make sure you have variable speed so you can control the cut.


As I shown in my picture I use the meguiars 2X scratch remover as a cutting compound before going to the polishing compound . Is this ok or should I just use a rubbing compound instead of the scretch remover?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*20/20 hindsight ....*

If I had a dollar for every "How do I fix this finishing snafu", I'd be rich.
People don't understand that finishing is NOT like woodworking where you just cut something off and glue something together. Finishing is part science, part artistry, part experience, part chemistry and part experimentation.

Before you lay on a brush or stain or spray a project, you need to make a sample trial of the finishing regimen you "intend" to use. If things go wrong on your trial sample then you can experiment or ask questions on how to fix it. You can't do that very well on your final project, it's kinda too late.

Polishing add another dimension to the whole process as suggested by other posts here. Polishing is about "flattening". A totally flat surface will reflect light evenly where a finish that has minute scratches will appear dull. Wet sanding with finer and finer grits will flatten out your finish until it's ready to polish. Then you have to progress through the grits in polishing compounds just like sanding. 

A ROS or grinders will spin way too fast to polish a surface out correctly. Buffers and polishers are variable speed for a reason. They need to be slowed way down to work right. 

When you start mixing different brands of polishing compound you lose control of the system. Stick with one brand and practice with that and get advice from the auto paint supplier where you purchase it. Otherwise you are just gambling that you will get it right. :vs_cool:


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> If I had a dollar for every "How do I fix this finishing snafu", I'd be rich.
> People don't understand that finishing is NOT like woodworking where you just cut something off and glue something together. Finishing is part science, part artistry, part experience, part chemistry and part experimentation.
> 
> Before you lay on a brush or stain or spray a project, you need to make a sample trial of the finishing regimen you "intend" to use. If things go wrong on your trial sample then you can experiment or ask questions on how to fix it. You can't do that very well on your final project, it's kinda too late.
> ...


All good advice, add to this, don't use the same pad for all of the products, keep them exclusive.

If you use the same pad, you are essentially using the same grit as the last step.


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

soundmun said:


> As I shown in my picture I use the meguiars 2X scratch remover as a cutting compound before going to the polishing compound . Is this ok or should I just use a rubbing compound instead of the scretch remover?


the polishing compound, and rubbing compound are too coarse IMO.

Go to Maguiars site and look at the different cutting levels, you want something around the "removes swirl marks" range.

Maybe something like this:

https://www.meguiars.com/profession...aze-ultra-finishing-polish-m20508-8-oz-liquid


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

soundmun said:


> Will orbital sander or angle grinder be suited also for the job as an auto polisher ?


An orbital sander might help with the swirl marks by sanding but it won't work as a buffer. You can put 3000 grit paper on an orbital sander using spray adhesive. Assuming you have a hook and loop sander you can just glue the 3000 grit paper to an old sheet of another grit hook and loop paper. Using it with water the hook and loop paper won't last very long but the 3000 grit paper will do quite a bit of sanding before it goes bad.


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## Pondy (Oct 17, 2018)

Really great information here! I might add that it looks a bit too greasy and that can contribute to swirling. Careful to not add too much wax, or you'll spend forever trying to get it down to a thin sheen. Wax is absolutely better with less and after it has been applied across the entire surface, barring the use of solvents or soap and water, you can never wipe enough off by hand. After you have polished it to the "grit" you are content with, try to think of the wax as little more than a scratch filler.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

soundmun said:


> Will orbital sander or angle grinder be suited also for the job as an auto polisher ?



NO!!!


George


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

GeorgeC said:


> NO!!!
> 
> 
> George


George, a random orbit sander/polisher is the standard in auto detailing, with the CORRECT pad, speed, and product it will work just fine. When the OP indicated "angle grinder" I would say no, but I suspect he meant "buffer/polisher", again a tool that is used everyday in the auto refinishing, and detailing business, on vehicles that are very expensive, and on paint coatings that are very thin.

I have both, and use both when appropriate on my vehicles, but I rarely use either on a wood project as I don't ever do anything that is high gloss.

As indicated, like detailing on a car, you always start as fine as possible, test, if it isn't coarse enough, you step down, very slowly, and gently.

Beyond that I'm wondering why the OP is having such an issue with finish application that it has so many flaws that buffing and polishing is necessary, and if the expectations for super high gloss are unreasonable with the selected product.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Most of the problems these guys have with finishing is because they refuse to buy a sprayer. They spend hundreds of dollars on woodworking equipment to build something but won't spend 20 bucks on a paint sprayer. They get brush marks or some other defect in the finish and work for days trying to rub it out where spraying the finish would eliminate most of the defects.


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