# Reasonable expectations for a custom kitchen install???



## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

We are nearing the end of a kitchen remodel. Of the many issues we’ve identified with our cabinet maker, the quality of cabinet boxes is the most egregious issue (to us at least). We agreed to Baltic birch plywood boxes, even though in hindsight I should have forced him to use pre-assembled dovetailed maple boxes. Regardless, we were promised “craftsmanship” level of quality and this is what we got.

I won’t include all the pictures but these are representative of *17 of the 18 (!)* drawer boxes he provided.

Drawer box fronts have misplaced holes that were intended for screwing in the fronts (his remedy here is to cover with screw covers)
There is nail punch through (his remedy is to break off the nail and fill with wood filler)
There is lots of splintering and rough edges throughout (no proposed remedy)
There are some areas where the veneer is separating/bulging because of how the locking mechanisms for undermount glides were installed (no proposed remedy)
He assures us this level of quality is standard in the industry and we are being too nitpicky (all his other customers would love a kitchen of this quality and he himself would have no problem putting this into his kitchen).

As professionals in the field, what you are your thoughts?


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

Here are some pics of the kitchen overall. As you can see, we're not expecting perfection, but we expected something a bit more than what I would consider "shop/garage drawers."

Are we being unreasonable?


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm not a professional. I'm a slow-working DIYer.
If I made any one of those mistakes I'd think to myself, 'Thank goodness I'm not getting paid for this,' and hope no one notices.

But I also don't know what's an acceptable error rate in the professional world.


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

gj13us said:


> I'm not a professional. I'm a slow-working DIYer.
> If I made any one of those mistakes I'd think to myself, 'Thank goodness I'm not getting paid for this,' and hope no one notices.
> 
> But I also don't know what's an acceptable error rate in the professional world.


I'm very much in the same boat as a reasonably accomplished DIY'er. My wife's frustration is that she thinks I would have done a better job (granted it would have consumed many weekends). To your point, it's pretty frustrating paying for this quality...


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## Mike Stevens (Apr 22, 2021)

Those drawer boxes are awful and unacceptable. It's not hard to make good, solid, nice-looking drawer boxes. And of course it matters what they look like inside and even where you can't see, as that reflects craftsmanship and care, as well as making them as strong as possible. I can't imagine your frustration. We had our kitchen completely rebuilt a couple years ago, but I designed all of it and asked for dovetailed drawer boxes (among other things). We got lucky with the guy we found, I've always felt. I'm not a client many contractors have loved working with since I know what I want, but in my experience, you have to be extremely specific about everything. I hope this doesn't become just a "live and learn" situation for you and that you get your boxes redone properly. Hell, they obviously used a dull saw blade and the screws are not even in straight!


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

take it from a cabinet maker and residential contractor for the over 25 years, in my opinion, _that is poor craftsmanship_. some of the damage can be fixed, some not so well without replacing pieces. pick your battles, have him try to fix the items that really bother you, negotiate!


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

He might have had a guy putting them together who was hired off the street.

But its garbage. In his defense, the large holes are probably for the adjustable drawer face gizmos.

His response will tell you a) what he thinks of his work and b) what he thinks of his customers, and he can forget about a referral from you.

But he is probably up to his ears in backlogged work, slapping them together. Did he build the cabinets or order RTA's and just do the install?


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## danrush (Oct 16, 2017)

Those defects would never fly for any of the designers or builders I install for. 

There should never be a rough edge that can be seen or felt. While there is certainly a use for putty on any install, the whole idea is to use the putty sparingly and correct the defect so that it becomes invisible. 

The screws should be set flat, or flush to the surface. If that is impossible, they should be countersunk and covered with the appropriate screw covers. 

If the builder is not willing to rebuild the drawer boxes, perhaps filling the holes with epoxy wood filler, sanding the edges smooth and refinishing the boxes would be a reasonable compromise....

On the plus side, the few photos you posted of the exteriors show a nice, tight install. I hope it works out.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Question .....#1...Have you payed for the job? #2....does this shop actually make and we're these subbed out to an installer or installed in house..#3.... new house or remodel?...#4..... Did you hire or contractor..

Skip number 3 . I see your living there...


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

Thanks all for the feedback - to answer a few questions:


The only thing he outsourced was the door/drawer fronts. He built the cabinet carcasses, drawer boxes, did the spraying, and did the install. 
We haven’t proceeded with the final payment yet (about 20% of total job cost).
This is a remodel
I hired direct (not through a GC)
Just FYI, my wife and I are planning on ordering pre-assembled boxes from a reputable source that specializes in drawer box manufacture. We are trying to negotiate with our contractor offset the cost of that partially (he brings $500 to table, we will pay remaining ~$1200). We recognize there are materials and labor tied up in what he delivered so hopefully he will think this fair.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

For whats supposed to be a custom kitchen, that‘s pretty lousy work in my book. I’d throw the drawers in the fire pit. Sorry this happened, but this guy was a hack. Here’s a pic of what a drawer box should look like.
Mike Hawkins


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

firehawkmph said:


> For whats supposed to be a custom kitchen, that‘s pretty lousy work in my book. I’d throw the drawers in the fire pit. Sorry this happened, but this guy was a hack. Here’s a pic of what a drawer box should look like.
> Mike Hawkins
> View attachment 430224



There are many options in drawers dovetails are just one...

15 years ago I got $45 a box for dovetail drawer with baltic birch ply. Dime a dozen now.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

zdominguez47 said:


> Thanks all for the feedback - to answer a few questions:
> 
> 
> The only thing he outsourced was the door/drawer fronts. He built the cabinet carcasses, drawer boxes, did the spraying, and did the install.
> ...



If he wants the remainder he produces credible drawers.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I will say this. Woodworkers on a forum aren't going to tell you it's anything but junk, they are going to do it themself and that's different. There also not going to show you when they them self "hack" something in there shop. 

I've worked in many credible shops but when you have a multitude of employees sometimes things slip out. Bad work hits the street/ job and so on. It's up to the installer to catch/reject these things. 

I heard never buy a Ford made assembled on Mondays or Fridays...

If he says this is typical work, then move on and buy the new drawers...If I was local Id just take care of it for free- plus materials..fish aren't really biting, just as well be in the air conditioned shop...


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## stubach (Feb 20, 2021)

I’m not a pro but I can say the custom cabinet shop down the road from me would never let that pass. Our kitchen is stock homedepot crap but I’ve had a couple replacement drawer boxes for mine over the years and they just make me standard end joints and they would never let that fly. Poor cuts, inaccurate fasteners, sloppy finish and fit, unacceptable for the price I’m sure you paid for that. 

Good luck with getting it resolved. It’s a matter of his reputation now, how much does he care. Can’t recall the stats but people tell many more about a bad experience than a good one. This could be a big black mark on his record, if he cares.


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

zdominguez47 said:


> Here are some pics of the kitchen overall. As you can see, we're not expecting perfection, but we expected something a bit more than what I would consider "shop/garage drawers."
> 
> Are we being unreasonable?
> 
> ...


What gets me is the rest of the kitchen looks pretty good. Nice design, all the margins look good, workmanship looks good. Surprised that the drawer boxes would be that bad. Perhaps he usually orders his boxes and made these. I know a lot of people use baltic birch boxes, but I try to avoid them. Baltic birch can be very susceptible to tearout. Zero clearance on the saws is a must, and extreme patience and care has to be taken with dovetails. Slow climb. I would never turn boxes like that over to a client.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

stubach said:


> I’m not a pro but I can say the custom cabinet shop down the road from me would never let that pass. Our kitchen is stock homedepot crap but I’ve had a couple replacement drawer boxes for mine over the years and they just make me standard end joints and they would never let that fly. Poor cuts, inaccurate fasteners, sloppy finish and fit, unacceptable for the price I’m sure you paid for that.
> 
> Good luck with getting it resolved. It’s a matter of his reputation now, how much does he care. Can’t recall the stats but people tell many more about a bad experience than a good one. This could be a big black mark on his record, if he cares.


That's the kicker... if he's not willing or going to make it right, his credibility is in question. . I think the cabinet maker is thinking it's a small job and wants his/her money. Sometimes you have to make it right, get payed and move on.


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

B Coll said:


> What gets me is the rest of the kitchen looks pretty good. Nice design, all the margins look good, workmanship looks good. Surprised that the drawer boxes would be that bad. Perhaps he usually orders his boxes and made these. I know a lot of people use baltic birch boxes, but I try to avoid them. Baltic birch can be very susceptible to tearout. Zero clearance on the saws is a must, and extreme patience and care has to be taken with dovetails. Slow climb. I would never turn boxes like that over to a client.


With respect to design, because I'm a control freak and have access to chief architect, I built these plans to get accurate bids on the job. See attached for a couple examples of elevations I sent to him.

















These were his "shop plans" he provided back to me when it came time to sign the contract:









Now I'm not saying everyone has to be tech savvy, but we ran into problems because while I specified precise filler widths and cabinet sizes, his imprecise plans allowed him to take liberties with fillers (notably just right of the fridge), and ended up making the microwave cabinet (5th from bottom, lift up door) too narrow so that our microwave (and almost any normal sized microwave) wouldn't fit!

Also, even though the install looks good, we had to point issues like the following when he said the job was "done." Won't show up from a distance, but again speaks to attention to detail:
This is inside a cabinet box where the wall meets the base:








This is the finished front panel for the trash rollout (where panel meets vertical stile):









I didn't bother mentioning all this stuff to you all because 1) he says he's going to fix it and 2) we're just cutting our losses on many of the other minor workmanship issues you see upon closer inspection.

Anyway - appreciate everyone's help and feedback. I totally get that we shouldn't expect absolute perfection, but we as consumers do have to draw the line somewhere.

*PS - we're in SoCal, so if any drawer box makers out there with reasonable shipping rates to 93013 want to quote replacement boxes (18 drawers) for us, we'd love to hear from you!*


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## Frost (Sep 24, 2018)

I'll not comment on the guy's work, but let me try to explain some design issues that made his work tougher. Not impossible but harder for a semi skilled guy. It seems as though the stiles on the drawer fronts were narrow and to attach them, he chose to drill and screw at an angle to get holding power, pictures show that was the case, and the nail in the trash drawer pullout likely caused by the same issue. A wider stile would have made life easier, or use of undermount slides so less space between cabinet and pullout. Maybe taller drawers to get bite into top rail, or space below drawer bottom to attach through. With your design, I rely on drawer pulls a lot for actual attachment, sometimes means using double sided tape at first and then the pull hardware. But, that means the back of the face needs to be flush with rails and stiles because there will be firm pressure., so likely a filler, or design the fronts such. BTW, I know Baltic Birch is a go to material nowadays, but it's thin and prone to tearout and splintering. Good luck with your kitchen.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

So this is a cabinet shop, a local woodworker, friend of a friend?


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

This is a full on custom cabinet maker. 

Keen eye on the slightly narrower stiles. Our rails stiles are 2 inch so it's true that there does indeed need to be a little angle into the fronts. I'm planning on picking up fastcaps 15deg jig when I replace these boxes. This will also allow me to counterbore the holes so we don't have big washer head screws not fully flush. We do have all undermount HW (we specified Blum, received combination of hettich and Blum) so it seems we maximized drawer width as much as possible relative to fronts. The trash door damage appears to be not from mounting (since the rollout uses metal brackets which extend the attachment point right into the stile) but from the "adjustment bolts" which adjust the tilt of the door?


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## johnedp34 (Jun 30, 2016)

Absolute rubbish! Here in UK we have specialist kitchen suppliers who give you an upfront cost and use computer to show how kitchen will look like. They should be ashamed of their dreadful workmanship.
I had a better kitchen which I assembled using flat pack from a big store. Have a look and see what Ikea offer. 
I would complain to the local Trading Standards.
johnep


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

zdominguez47 said:


> This is a full on custom cabinet maker.
> 
> Keen eye on the slightly narrower stiles. Our rails stiles are 2 inch so it's true that there does indeed need to be a little angle into the fronts. I'm planning on picking up fastcaps 15deg jig when I replace these boxes. This will also allow me to counterbore the holes so we don't have big washer head screws not fully flush. We do have all undermount HW (we specified Blum, received combination of getting and Blum) so it seems we maximized drawer width as much as possible relative to fronts. The trash door damage appears to be not from mounting (since the rollout uses metal brackets which extend the attachment point right into the stile) but from the "adjustment bolts" which adjust the tilt of the door?


We use those screws in commercial. That's not uncommon.careful with the counter sunk screws. Those washer screws are used to give you adjustment. Norally a 3/16 hole is drilled and tge wasjpher screw centered allowing for future adjustment. You cabinets require a door/drawer alignment. This could change over time..


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

For those interested, here is the fastcap jig:

15º DRAWER DRILLING JIG

Yes, the washerhead low profile screws are pretty common, but when your install requires an angled install, they sometimes end up more in the way than helping. 

I also like the suggestion to just use the hardware as the attachment to drawer box. Maybe I'll do that instead of independently attaching the drawer to front stiles...? Do you think that would work on wider boxes (about 27inches) that have 9 inch hardware? It seems like a big stretch of "unattached" material?

Regardless of attachment, I also like the suggestion of using some backer material behind the panel to firmly attach the HW. I don't feel comfortable cranking down the HW against the 1/4" center panel in these 5 pc doors.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

When I remodeled my kitchen, I chose Wellborn Cabinets from a local supplier. I did the install and selected the Shaker style Hickory cabinets from the standard sizes. The drawer boxes are dovetailed hardwood, beautiful work. The cabinet faces are Hickory frames and plywood panels, all nice. My margins were tight enough so fillers were a minimum width. I can't remember the exact cost of all the cabinets but around 10K which includes also two baths. I would do it all over again if I needed to, I'm that happy with the results!
I wouldn't settle for that shoddy work, no matter what.

Here's an example of my own cabinet work above and the Wellborn 3 drawer cabinets below:


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I have the same drawers on my bar. Mine are pinned.


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

Rebelwork said:


> I have the same drawers on my bar. Mine are pinned.



@Rebelwork - sorry for what might be a stupid question...how are your fronts attached to the boxes? I see the screw for the knob HW passes through both panel and drawer, but that seems insufficient to mount the whole front to the door. Are you saying they're pin nailed together?


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

zdominguez47 said:


> This is a full on custom cabinet maker.
> 
> Keen eye on the slightly narrower stiles. Our rails stiles are 2 inch so it's true that there does indeed need to be a little angle into the fronts. I'm planning on picking up fastcaps 15deg jig when I replace these boxes. This will also allow me to counterbore the holes so we don't have big washer head screws not fully flush. We do have all undermount HW (we specified Blum, received combination of hettich and Blum) so it seems we maximized drawer width as much as possible relative to fronts. The trash door damage appears to be not from mounting (since the rollout uses metal brackets which extend the attachment point right into the stile) but from the "adjustment bolts" which adjust the tilt of the door?


Slides are currently difficult to get due to shortages like everything else. Some shops are waiting months for orders to be filled if at all based on last year's numbers. Lots of discussions about as like alternatives. 

The boxes are not great.. though if you didn't specify the type of construction I wouldn't expect anything more than butt joints and nails/staples.


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

zdominguez47 said:


> Regardless of attachment, I also like the suggestion of using some backer material behind the panel to firmly attach the HW. I don't feel comfortable cranking down the HW against the 1/4" center panel in these 5 pc doors.


There needs to be a shim/packing between the panel and drawer if they used 1/4 panels.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Just adding.....That's usually for the hardware..


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## Frost (Sep 24, 2018)

So, just went and measured some things in my kitchen. It's very similar to the OP's, with 3 drawers per bay and 2" stiles on the drawer fronts and 1/4" panels, all painted. Done by yours truly. With undermount slides (Blum), my drawers leave about 1/8th " gap. That, coupled with 5/8ths sides on maple drawers left me plenty of room (1" plus) to drive screws without angling them. Now wondering why the installer felt the need to do so. FWIW, I'm old school and just use countersunk woodscrews to attach the fronts. I usually mill down some pine or poplar as a filler to place behind the panel where the hardware for pulls or knobs will go and just glue them on prior to painting or finishing as that connection does make the front feel solid.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Will never know.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

Sorry but the pictures that you have shown are NOT garage / workshop quality.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

NoThankyou said:


> Sorry but the pictures that you have shown are NOT garage / workshop quality.


Is this too me?


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## TBK (Apr 22, 2021)

zdominguez47 said:


> Here are some pics of the kitchen overall. As you can see, we're not expecting perfection, but we expected something a bit more than what I would consider "shop/garage drawers."
> 
> Are we being unreasonable?
> 
> ...


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## TBK (Apr 22, 2021)

Standard of the industry, I seriously doubt it. This is sloppy work and it may be rejected cabinets from a client who said no.
I would not accept this, miminally, a discount should be applicable as a cost of learning to the vendor.


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## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

(1) I'm a hack, and that wouldn't work for me.

(2) Stuff happens, but builders have hit list for a reason. These pictures show why.

(3) This guy doesn't know how to drill holes, or is a crappy, if not stupid supervisor.

(4) This guy should have used a decent blade, not a chain saw (all my cabinet drawers were cut with a 60 tooth and a quick touch with 150 on the edges got rid of the bit of fuzz I did have).

(5) That old saying still hangs true: "Do me good, I tell a few, but do me bad and I tell everyone."

The faces look nice and the kitchen will look good when done.

By the way, how is the fridge vented?


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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

That is just sloppy work in my opinion and I would have rejected the cabinets before they where installed. I do okay but am not a master like many on this forum, but when I make a mistake I remedy it, my wife will say on occasion no one will ever notice it (by the way she is my biggest critic on my work), the point is that I will always notice it.


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## obillo (Nov 1, 2020)

zdominguez47 said:


> Here are some pics of the kitchen overall. As you can see, we're not expecting perfection, but we expected something a bit more than what I would consider "shop/garage drawers."
> 
> Are we being unreasonable?
> No. That looks like stuff I've done myself, and I freely acknowledge that I'm incompetent. It also looks like a lots o the stuff we paid for years ago, and which we accepted for 2 reasons: 1, we just didn't know any better and 2 he was so damned slow we were DESPERATE to get rid of him. I realized much later that he and his crew took on our job despite the fact that it meant an hour's travel for them--and that the best contractors don't waste time in travel by taking distant jobs. They all worked close to home. This was confirmed to me personally by both veterans of This Old House, Norm Abram and Tom Silva.It was also confirmed by a contractor who built the house I rented from him, and who told me he wouldn't travel 10 miles for a job--and this in a low-traffic area. If I'd had ANY money at the time I'd have sued my contractor. I did keep a file of photos of the incompetent work he and his gang of ever-changing [pickup did, ad many of them look like the crapo your contractor thinks is "craftsmanship." Insist that he give you contact info for a dozen other of his clients.
> ...


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## thetazva (Apr 30, 2021)

I am sorry you are having to deal with something like this from a contractor/installer who says this is the industry standard, seriously, certainly not my industry. I have been a commercial superintendent, carpenter and small business owner for the last 45 years and have seen some crappy work but this is pretty dam bad. Sloppy joints on drawer assembly, nails punched through where they shouldn't be, screws at strange angles, nails through the backs and sides of cabinet boxes, tear out on plywood, the list goes on and as said previously where is the venting for the refrigerator? The tolerances are too tight and the fridge will burn up without airflow. On the good side the cabinet doors and drawers look good from your pics, it also appears that the drawer boxes were not finished inside, not a good thing. We would never let that kind of garbage come out of our shop, ever. Good you held 20% and I hope thats enough to pay for new drawer boxes, and if he values his reputation I would hope that he takes care of it for you as he should. Poor quality ..


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

OP here - thanks everyone for the opinions/feedback. It at least makes our concerns feel warranted. For those interested in how things ended up.

We paid him his final draw today. To be honest, my wife and I just wanted to be done with this headache, and he wasn't budging on repairing/replacing/or offsetting the cost of the drawer boxes. On the upside, we reached out to what appears to be a legitimate drawer box manufacturer (Cimarron in NV) who we placed an order with to replace all our drawer boxes. Yes, it ends up costing us more out of pocket - but in the end closing the book on this ordeal and being able to look forward to, as you all put it, an otherwise nice kitchen, is well worth it to us.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

It scars his business as he lost your word of mouth.

I did a job for a divorcee in Lenexa, kansas. I can't remember how she got my phone number, but word travels amungt friends.

Story similiar to your problems..

Mike Nethrton owned a shop here in town . He sold it, got married and moved to Arkansas. He sold his equipment to Craftsman cabinet company, LLC here in Odessa who was starting a shop. Buck who worked for Mike got a job at Craftsman Cabinets. Hes the leadman at Craftsman Cabinets. Buck is the same guy who once worked for Regency Cabinets and got fired for doing crappy work too many times and was sent packing. 

Anyway I talked to the owner about a part time job. He said he needed someone here and there to fix little problems on the cabinets installed. The second time I came to the shop he was running late. I took a look at the paint grade cabinet set finished in the shop. They were awful and very similiar to your problems. I talked to the secretary and mentioned the problems. The owner was going to be all morning so I left. 

Bottom line.... He didn't call me guess I made him made when the secretary told him what I said and this is okay with me. Buck is the problem. Buck is cheap probably only making $15-16 an hour. So here is a shop putting out the same quality as your cabinet man. There just blind to improvements...


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## Mike Stevens (Apr 22, 2021)

If I were you, I would spread the word far and wide on all possible social media (such as NextDoor) and by word of mouth naming the person/company by name that their work is shoddy and is to be avoided. I understand just wanting to wash your hands of the experience and move on, but the builder should not get away with foisting this junk on you, or anyone else. Anyone using this builder is taking work away from someone else who knows what they are doing, and takes pride in their work.


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## Swedish Carpenter (Aug 6, 2021)

I'm thinking the doors were purchased. Doen't make sense that the boxes are all so bad and the doors looked nice. The dados are 3/4 inch, but Birch plywood is 11/16. He didn't go an get the right bit. a common flaw. the rest of the work is just as everyone here has said is bad. Why are there any nails at all, he could have used a Kreg jig and had decent results. But it is obvious that he cut some panels short and he used the wrong blade made evident by the splintering. Yep, i am thinking that i would just have him tear them out and start over or return the money.


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## zdominguez47 (Aug 24, 2021)

OP again - FYI for those wondering, yes the doors were purchased (he gave me that company's brochure when selecting door style). Ironically he acknowledged that in this day and age there are just too many good and affordable options for doors it doesn't make sense to make em in his shop (you think he'd say the same about drawer boxes!).


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## Swedish Carpenter (Aug 6, 2021)

The difference is are you a cabinet assembler or a cabinet maker. I admit that when i make a lot of drawers, I use a Porter Cable Dove Tail Jig ( all my drawers are dove tailed). But that is my only cheat. I guess I liken it to using the table saw or panel saw for cutting. You didn't show how he cut around the pipes, did he make an attampt or just cut out the back of the cabinet. Here are two examples of how it should be done. I like no more than an 1/8 around the waste pipe and I try for the same around water pipes. That largely falls to the Plumber, did he put the stops on or not. The main idea is to be able to cover the cut out with the escutcheon. you can note too in the first pic, I use Glaziers shims for leveling and plumbing. They are plastic and will not shrink over time with the weight. FYI first pic is Home Depot cab, second is custom Black Walnut


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Swedish Carpenter said:


> The difference is are you a cabinet assembler or a cabinet maker. I admit that when i make a lot of drawers, I use a Porter Cable Dove Tail Jig ( all my drawers are dove tailed). But that is my only cheat. I guess I liken it to using the table saw or panel saw for cutting. You didn't show how he cut around the pipes, did he make an attampt or just cut out the back of the cabinet. Here are two examples of how it should be done. I like no more than an 1/8 around the waste pipe and I try for the same around water pipes. That largely falls to the Plumber, did he put the stops on or not. The main idea is to be able to cover the cut out with the escutcheon. you can note too in the first pic, I use Glaziers shims for leveling and plumbing. They are plastic and will not shrink over time with the weight. FYI first pic is Home Depot cab, second is custom Black Walnut
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks like new construction. Remodels aren't that perfect for installation. I installed for 7 years straight. No istallation is the same..

I just figured it up. When I installed for Regency Cabinets in Bates City, Mo. We did a combination of 10 sets per week. 8 sets+1 remodel or 8 sets +one 4 plex...the combination changed weekly. I installed almost 2900 sets in 7 years...


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