# Chisel or coping saw? Dovetails



## Heath

Well I started doing my dovetails with a router and I wasn't happy with what I was getting for results. Now that I'm doing them by hand I'm much happier with the results and it's also a lot more rewarding. I have been cutting them out with a chisel and also tried it with a coping saw. Now I'm just wondering what you guys are doing for yours. Are you using a coping saw, chisel, or some other way? Why? Thanks for your replies.


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## Wrangler02

I do both. It really depends on how much waste there is to remove.


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## Brink

I used to chop them out. 

Then a youngster on this forum suggested using a coping saw to remove most of the waste, then finishing with a chisel.


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## Billy De

As an Apprentice I was first taught to use the chisel to chop the waste out,later seeing the Journey men use the coping saw I questioned this and this is what I was told.
Not every dove tail joint is a through dove tail and by fist leaning to chop them out you lean how to use the chisel.The idea is not to produce the job but to produce the Carpenter.Example if your working to a bottom scribed line and the chisel is placed on the scribed line and then you chop into the wood because of the shape on the face of the chisel the wood forces the chisel backwards and across the scribed line,no matter how good the rest of the job is cut out this will result in a sloppy joint
If you set the chisel off the line but it cuts slightly on a skew by putting a twisting force on the chisel and then hitting with the mallet the wood then forces the chisel to come back parallel to the scribed line.

I mention these points just to show how the knowledge you win here can be used on latter projects.
There is a lot of chisel work on half blind dove tails and this is where skew or fish tail chisels come into their own.

What ever way you do it, if it works for you then that's the main point.Enjoy it.:thumbsup:


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## tcleve4911

I have never coped them out.
I like to use a chisel the same width as the dovetail.
This way, I get a perfect line all the way across the tail.
It seems like the coping method would be difficult to cut perfectly along that line.


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## Wrangler02

tcleve4911 said:


> I have never coped them out.
> I like to use a chisel the same width as the dovetail.
> This way, I get a perfect line all the way across the tail.
> It seems like the coping method would be difficult to cut perfectly along that line.


With a coping saw, you remove most of the waste. You then use your chisel to pare to the line.


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## tcleve4911

I get that part but it seems like an extra step when I can cut to my line with my chisel anyway.
Not saying your way is better or worse just saying it seems like an extra step.


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## firemedic

As pointed out we obviously talking bout full DT's and I always remove the majority of the waste with a coping saw then clean up the edges with bevel and skew chisels. Skew chisels are SO nice for DT's. Really worth buying or making one. Narex has a nice set but you can make one from a regular chisel as shown is the picture.

~tom


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## tcleve4911

Hi Tom
That picture looks skewed.....:laughing:
Can you show another angle?
I'd like to consider making a skew chisel....makes sense.


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## firemedic

Best I can do for now... I can take better pics at the shop later if ya need.

~tom


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## firemedic

Same as first but better quality.

~tom


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## Hammer1

You can use the dovetail saw to make a series of close together kerfs in the waste, the resulting "leaves" will pop right out and you can clean up with a chisel.


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## joesbucketorust

Here's a home-made chisel that is like two skews - a left and a right - in one.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/jThompson/restore/dovChisel/dovChisel-01.asp


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## firemedic

How I use the skew. It's even more helpful for half blinds...

~tom


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## Heath

Wow, thank you guys for the great information. I had no idea about the chisels specific for dovetails. Also I like the idea of cutting most of it out first with the coping saw then cleaning up the rest. I will have to pick up some old chisels so I can attempt to make my own skews. Right now I have a great set of old Marples made before Irwin bought them and sent the manufacturing off to china. 

Anyway I did some practicing last night on some scrap pine I had laying around. I found that if I tried using my coping saw my cuts weren't very staight and if I tried to cut on the line they came out very poor. My chiseling is getting much better though. 

Thank you Billy for the advise on not using the chisel right on the line. I am guilty of this and will correct my ways. 

Thank you Tom for the images and all of the information. I look forward to your replies because they are always so informational:thumbsup: +1 to you sir. 

And everyone else as well. It's why I spend a few hours a day here absorbing all the knowledge I can.


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## firemedic

It sounds like you are trying to cut the line with the coping saw... Cut just above it and clean down to the line with the chisel afterwards. It's ok to shave down to the line with the chisel but that should be your last few strokes of the chisel.

I have to admit I've always struggled with half blinds. I never seen to get clean shoulders on the drawer front and i've been doing this a little while. Reason I say this?- don't be discouraged with it if they don't look like cosman or klause made them but keep practicing and it becomes much more enjoyable.

~tom


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## Heath

firemedic said:


> It sounds like you are trying to cut the line with the coping saw... Cut just above it and clean down to the line with the chisel afterwards. It's ok to shave down to the line with the chisel but that should be your last few strokes of the chisel.
> 
> I have to admit I've always struggled with half blinds. I never seen to get clean shoulders on the drawer front and i've been doing this a little while. Reason I say this?- don't be discouraged with it if they don't look like cosman or klause made them but keep practicing and it becomes much more enjoyable.
> 
> ~tom


Here are a couple I did today using your advise. I broke the handle on my cheapo coping saw and ordered a new one that should be here tomorrow so I can get back to it. I cut down to about 1/32" above the line and then chiseled and filed the rest of the way. This is going to be a double dovetail with poplar on the outside, lined with what is either Lauan Mahogany or Honduran Mahogany (a dilemma you may have read in my other thread). I don't think it will be as pretty as I hoped because my pieces aren't fitting as well as I hoped, but I'm taking my time.


Hope you like my awesome woodworking vise, haha


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## firemedic

Crap... I just read what I wrote... Fret saw!!! Not coping saw. Either works but fret saws work a LOT better for this. Someone said cope and I just kept rolling with it  

Fret saw uses a thiner blade that you can actually turn in the kerf to cut along your bottom line.

That side looks good! Nice clean shoulders. what kind of saw is it that I'm seeing the horn of? LN?

Keep the pictures coming!

~tom


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## Heath

firemedic said:


> Crap... I just read what I wrote... Fret saw!!! Not coping saw. Either works but fret saws work a LOT better for this. Someone said cope and I just kept rolling with it
> 
> Fret saw uses a thiner blade that you can actually turn in the kerf to cut along your bottom line.
> 
> That side looks good! Nice clean shoulders. what kind of saw is it that I'm seeing the horn of? LN?
> 
> Keep the pictures coming!
> 
> ~tom


Oh ok. I'll look into one of those. Gonna try out my new coping saw as soon as UPS arrives at 12:27. That guy is like a machine. Yeah, that is an LN dovetail saw, 15ppi. I treat it like my third child, it stays in the box with the corrosion paper wrapped around the oiled blade. I also have a set of Shark saws that I really like. They're not expensive and I was impressed that it's a California company and the blades are made in Japan. Here is pretty good one I did. It took me a couple hours though.


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## firemedic

Looks really great! They get faster with practice... You'll be cutting 3 1/2 min dovetails soon! :yes:

I don't understand the shoulder on the two previous pictures... Not wrong, I just don't understand the design. Might be slowing ya down a bit too? 

Keep up the good work! You are off on a terrific run!

~tom


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## Heath

firemedic said:


> Looks really great! They get faster with practice... You'll be cutting 3 1/2 min dovetails soon! :yes:
> 
> I don't understand the shoulder on the two previous pictures... Not wrong, I just don't understand the design. Might be slowing ya down a bit too?
> 
> Keep up the good work! You are off on a terrific run!
> 
> ~tom


It's going to be a double dovetail. I'm following this tutorial:
Hand Cut Double Dovetails


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## MR.WOODCOCK

*lol*



tcleve4911 said:


> Hi Tom
> That picture looks skewed.....:laughing:
> Can you show another angle?
> I'd like to consider making a skew chisel....makes sense.


Pretty sure that one flew over his head. :yes:


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## firemedic

Heath said:


> It's going to be a double dovetail. I'm following this tutorial:
> Hand Cut Double Dovetails


Ahhh! I should have picked up on that earlier in the thread! Man, going all Brink style fancy, huh! Very cool!

How's the new saw?

~tom


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## Heath

firemedic said:


> Ahhh! I should have picked up on that earlier in the thread! Man, going all Brink style fancy, huh! Very cool!
> 
> How's the new saw?
> 
> ~tom


It didn't show up:thumbdown: I'm not so impressed with my UPS guy anymore. He let me down today. 





It's got great ratings. 

Yeah I really want this new box to look as good as I can possibly make it. I have some really cool ideas for it that I've gotten from the guys on here.


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## firemedic

Heath said:


> It didn't show up:thumbdown: I'm not so impressed with my UPS guy anymore. He let me down today.
> 
> Video Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CCXHM4/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details
> It's got great ratings.
> 
> Yeah I really want this new box to look as good as I can possibly make it. I have some really cool ideas for it that I've gotten from the guys on here.


I have that same coping saw. It's well made, only down side it's a coping saw. You may be fine finding a narrower blade for it though till (if) you decide to get a fret saw as well.

~tom


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## Heath

firemedic said:


> I have that same coping saw. It's well made, only down side it's a coping saw. You may be fine finding a narrower blade for it though till (if) you decide to get a fret saw as well.
> 
> ~tom


I looked through some fret saws but didn't know what to get. Could you post a link to the one you have or a similar one? Most of what I saw (haha) were saws for cutting guitar frets, which makes sense.


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## firemedic

Heath said:


> I looked through some fret saws but didn't know what to get. Could you post a link to the one you have or a similar one? Most of what I saw (haha) were saws for cutting guitar frets, which makes sense.


Elbow deep in BBQ'n right now but fret saws are made for cutting guitar frets, lol.

I have a cheap one, but it's more about the blade than anything as long as it's mounted solidly. I'll dig you up a link this eve.

Also, look and Rob Cosman's fret saw and blades in the mean time... Watch his bids while you there too, they are very well done.

~tom


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## Heath

firemedic said:


> Elbow deep in BBQ'n right now but fret saws are made for cutting guitar frets, lol.
> 
> I have a cheap one, but it's more about the blade than anything as long as it's mounted solidly. I'll dig you up a link this eve.
> 
> Also, look and Rob Cosman's fret saw and blades in the mean time... Watch his bids while you there too, they are very well done.
> 
> ~tom


His tools are so expensive and very cool. The grips are awesome.


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## Brink

Those are some killer DT's! Enjoying this thread.


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## Heath

Brink said:


> Those are some killer DT's! Enjoying this thread.


Thank you very much. I appreciate the compliment. I found that if I stop rushing them and pretending to be the pros I see on YouTube then they come out a lot better. Most of the time spent on them is drawing them up to make sure they are all the same. I think next time I do this I will make up a cardboard template and draw them all out first or pick up one of these: 
Dovetail Marker


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## Brink

Yeah, the layout, for me, is the most time consuming. Some of those vids have the wood cut, scribes all set, then it's just boom, boom, boom mark the tails and start cutting. It makes a nice show.

Take the time and lay 'em out. The cutting and chopping will become second nature.


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## firemedic

You can make your own DT gauge if you cared too!

I replied to your PM, but I was remiss in not saying that I can answer some questions but there are guys here that have a far more extensive history with hand tools than I do! I do a lot with hand tools but guys like (in no particular order) Brink, Lawrence, Wrangler and other have been in the game a LOT longer than I have. There is a lot to be learned from them Sr guys :laughing:

I hope I don't offend anyone in not mentioning their name! Those three were the first to mind as I seem to banter with them the most :smile:

~tom


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## Heath

Brink said:


> Yeah, the layout, for me, is the most time consuming. Some of those vids have the wood cut, scribes all set, then it's just boom, boom, boom mark the tails and start cutting. It makes a nice show.
> 
> Take the time and lay 'em out. The cutting and chopping will become second nature.


Thanks Brink. Have you done double dovetails? Any advise on that?


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## Heath

Here is one of the ends done before I make the next cuts for the double dovetail. Got a little gaposis but not too bad. Any pointers for hiding the gaps? 

This is my first time doing dovetails by hand.


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## Heath

I have done my first double dovetail. I know it's not very pretty with the gappage but this is a dry fit and I'm hoping that with some gluing and clamping I can hide/close some of these gaps.

In case you're wondering this is poplar (my favorite wood so far) and Honduran Mahogany


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## Brink

I was intrigued by a box Kenbo made with inlaid dovetails, so I wanted to try doing it by hand. Really wish I saw the double dovetail article. That would have helped me along as I did them.

Heath, yours are looking good. I think you just need to concentrate on transferring marks from one piece to the other, and they will become tighter fitting.


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## Heath

Brink, yours are very similar, and I did see these from Kenbo and that is what gave me the idea as well. Finding the article I've been following is what really set me off to try it. The guy makes it look so easy and it's very easy to follow. There are some awesome ones here I plan to just use the pictures for ideas.


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## Brink

Ahh, Heath, you're making it look easy, too.


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## Heath

Brink said:


> Ahh, Heath, you're making it look easy, too.


Haha if you were here to watch me you would disagree. I think I've chiseled more cuts in my hands than I have in the wood. 

I got them all done last night and I'm making progress. I might start a build thread tonight with what I've gotten done so far.


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