# tung oil finishes?



## Justin E (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm just wondering what the difference is between the Cabot tung oil finish and Waterlox. Is one more durable or just better?


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## jjrbus (Dec 6, 2009)

I am not the best source, me and Sgt. Schultz, we know nothing. But I found this article interesting.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use

HTH JIm 0311


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## Justin E (Jan 31, 2012)

Thank you! I'm trying the test the article recommended. I hopefully found a good enough surface for it.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Much as I love Bob Flexner and respect what he has done for finishers, he is in error to include Waterlox in the list of oil/varnishes. Waterlox Original is a fairly standard oil based varnish. It is made with phenolic resin and tung oil. All varnishes are made with a resin and a drying oil. Most use linseed oil but some use tung oil if they want a darker varnish and a more water resistant varnish. Waterlox is one of those that uses tung oil. However, once the resin and oil are combined and then heated they change to new compound called varnish. Waterlox is very different than an oil/varnish like Watco or Minwax Tung Oil Finish or Cabot Tung Oil Finish--which of course, uses linseed oil and not a drop of tung oil in their product.

There is a big difference between oil/varnish mixture products and oil based varnishes. Oil/varnish mixtures are intended to be and in-the-wood finish that leaves the look and feel of the wood without a buildup of finish on the surface of the wood. Varnishes are film finishes that stay on top of the wood and once dry, leave a solid film on the surface. Varnish is quite a bit more protective than oil/varnishes but oil/varnishes are perfectly fine for items that will not be subject to everyday abuse.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

HowardAcheson said:


> Much as I love Bob Flexner and respect what he has done for finishers, he is in error to include Waterlox in the list of oil/varnishes. Waterlox Original is a fairly standard oil based varnish. It is made with phenolic resin and tung oil. All varnishes are made with a resin and a drying oil. Most use linseed oil but some use tung oil if they want a darker varnish and a more water resistant varnish. Waterlox is one of those that uses tung oil. However, once the resin and oil are combined and then heated they change to new compound called varnish. Waterlox is very different than an oil/varnish like Watco or Minwax Tung Oil Finish or Cabot Tung Oil Finish--which of course, uses linseed oil and not a drop of tung oil in their product.
> 
> There is a big difference between oil/varnish mixture products and oil based varnishes. Oil/varnish mixtures are intended to be and in-the-wood finish that leaves the look and feel of the wood without a buildup of finish on the surface of the wood. Varnishes are film finishes that stay on top of the wood and once dry, leave a solid film on the surface. Varnish is quite a bit more protective than oil/varnishes but oil/varnishes are perfectly fine for items that will not be subject to everyday abuse.


So can/should Waterlox be used if one desires and in the wood finish? I think based on what you are saying here that would not be the case. I used it on a countertop and after several coats it gave me a film build finish.....just checking to make sure.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> So can/should Waterlox be used if one desires and in the wood finish? I think based on what you are saying here that would not be the case. I used it on a countertop and after several coats it gave me a film build finish.....just checking to make sure.


I've found that either the oil/varnish mixes, (including the ones you can make), and the oil base varnishes, with an appropriate sanding regimen, that the first application will penetrate into the wood, especially if thinned. If you are buying the finishes and want to know what's in them check the MSDS, and technical data sheets for the information. 

Some applications of either done minimally, will still leave the wood feel and look, without producing that plastic look.










 







.


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## Justin E (Jan 31, 2012)

HowardAcheson said:


> Much as I love Bob Flexner and respect what he has done for finishers, he is in error to include Waterlox in the list of oil/varnishes. Waterlox Original is a fairly standard oil based varnish. It is made with phenolic resin and tung oil. All varnishes are made with a resin and a drying oil. Most use linseed oil but some use tung oil if they want a darker varnish and a more water resistant varnish. Waterlox is one of those that uses tung oil. However, once the resin and oil are combined and then heated they change to new compound called varnish. Waterlox is very different than an oil/varnish like Watco or Minwax Tung Oil Finish or Cabot Tung Oil Finish--which of course, uses linseed oil and not a drop of tung oil in their product.
> 
> There is a big difference between oil/varnish mixture products and oil based varnishes. Oil/varnish mixtures are intended to be and in-the-wood finish that leaves the look and feel of the wood without a buildup of finish on the surface of the wood. Varnishes are film finishes that stay on top of the wood and once dry, leave a solid film on the surface. Varnish is quite a bit more protective than oil/varnishes but oil/varnishes are perfectly fine for items that will not be subject to everyday abuse.


I feel cheated for buying the Cabot Tung Oil Finish if it's really linseed.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

Both appear to be oil varnish mixes have no idea how much Tung oil actually present. I would give Cabot a shot because less expensive than Waterlox.

Pure Tung oil does take time to dry, factors like wood species, temperature, humidity all can affect drying time. Can take as much as six or eight coats of Tung oil to achieve a water vapor barrier. Thinning with turpentine, mineral spirits, and naphtha will seep drying times. Think “Hope Tung oil,” about as pure as can find without breaking the bank. 

Polymerized Tung oil will dry faster than regular Tung oil, Sutherland Wells only company know of claiming to produce the stuff. They do recommend 1 part product to 1 part thinner to speed up drying time. Expensive product!

Tung oil should have a nutty odor, if smell solvents it oil varnish mix, may or may not have Tung oil in it. 

Linseed and Tung oil classified as drying oils. They need air to dry and harden as they dry. Time required is the problem. Some would include Walnut as a drying oil, but references say both yea and nay.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Justin E said:


> I feel cheated for buying the Cabot Tung Oil Finish if it's really linseed.


Cabots tung oil finish: phenolic resin, secret resin [ither ester gum or possibly non drying or semi drying alkyd].

Cabots uses a dipetine [terpenoid] Stoddard solvent, mineral spirits.

Waterlox: tung oil, ester gum, phenolic resin.

waterlox: stoddard solvent, 1,2,4, trimethylbenzive, 1,3,5 trimethyl benzine, cobalt napthanate.


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## Justin E (Jan 31, 2012)

Gives me some ideas in case I try to make my own violin varnish.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Justin E said:


> Gives me some ideas in case I try to make my own violin varnish.


www.Maestronet.com


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