# Woodworking Accidents - Short Stories



## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Hi,
My name is Kern Hagg. If any of you have checked out my blog, horrorsfromthehomeworkshop.com, I think you can see what I’m trying to do. I want to publish a book which will explain workshop mishaps so that readers can learn from our mistakes. Hopefully, our efforts can save a few fingers.
Earlier this week, a potential contributor from north of our border, chose not to participate because of my “profit motive”. That is sad when you consider all of the good we can do, collectively, if this book became mandatory reading in Shop classes. Also, profit is not my motivation. I did a real job on my right hand, trying a maneuver on a table saw which I had never been warned not to try. THAT was my motivation and always will be.
The great majority of accidents I have read about, originated on table saws. I would also like to hear about lathes, drill presses, band and radial arm saws, planers, jointers, etc., etc. I cannot get to the promised land (400 stories) without your help. If you will, please pass my request along. I will get to 400, but so far, it’s pretty slow going. Thanks to you all.
Best Regard,
Kern Hagg
[email protected]


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

So you're basically trying to get a lot of people to give you their stories for free so that you can make money off them? You might want to offer something like the rates seen in short story anthologies or fiction magazines if you want to move faster.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

To: Andy,

You are the second person to suggest that I should pay for stories. Here are the problems with that logic:

1. I want to publish true stories. If I put a bounty on stories, don't you think some people would be inclined to dream up fictional accounts?

2. When you do a kind thing for a neighbor, do you expect to get paid? If I paid $25 for each of 400 stories, that cost would have to be passed on to people who could benefit by puchasing a copy. I don't want $10,000 to stand in the way of those purchases.

3. Check with the Library of Congress Copyright Office in Washington, D.C. You'll notice that *I have not copyrighted the title yet.* Follow my blog (on which you will notice no advertising) and you will see ongoing postings of new stories. Eventually, over about 18 months, the entire book will appear. If you want, Andy, you can pirate the title and all of the stories. Then you edit, typeset, design, draw caricatures, print, bind, market, distribute and process credit card payments from schools around the world. If you want to take all of this on for $4.99 per book...be my guest. 

I do what I do because I was badly hurt by a table saw last December - not for the profit motive which apparently concerns you. If someone like you had told someone like me, never to pull wood from the backside of a table saw, I wouldn't be typing this without feeling in my right thumb. So far, there are about 65 others who want to share their misfortunes to help others. I want to save thumbs, not become the next William Randolph Hearst.

Kern Hagg


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Kern Hagg said:


> When you do a kind thing for a neighbor, do you expect to get paid?


We do help others for nothing right here on the forum for free. Details and pictures are posted. Someone doesn't have to buy a book, when they can lurk or join here. Best part, on the forum there is a discussion. It's not just a bunch of stories.








 








.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Kern, feel free to post your thumb story in the shop safety section. If you're looking to save thumbs, that would be a step in the right direction.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*this is a 2 way deal here*

You post you horror story and we all can learn from your mistake.

You can also read the other horror stories and learn from other's mistakes here: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/lets-see-some-damage-34/ (Warning some of the images are disturbing)

I don't think there will be a great market for a booklet of accidents using power tools, since that's what owner's manuals are supposed to prevent. Videos on You Tube provide a wealth of information on both how to do it correctly and how NOT to do it. I don't know your motivation other than what you have stated, but I wish you the best of success regardless. :smile:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

:thumbsup: to what they said.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I only have two stories of accidents I witnessed. 

A co-worker when to rip a piece of used wood which had a staple in it. When the staple reached the saw top it hung and the guy instead of turning the saw off reached over the blade and tried to pick up the board while the saw was running. Of course the board kicked back pulling his thumb through the blade taking it off. The foreman and the shop owner rushed the guy off to the hospital and I came over and asked if they took the thumb which then didn't. I searched around for it and took it to the hospital hoping they could re-attach it but the guy's knuckle was torn up so bad they couldn't.

This one was in my own shop where one of my guys pulled the guard back on a jointer and brushed off the dust off the machine with his hand running his finger tips across the blade while it was running. I never did find out what possessed him to do that.


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## MTL (Jan 21, 2012)

I wonder if this guy is friends with Bench Times http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/do-your-write-woodworking-articles-design-plans-61868/

@Kern, maybe you could offer royalties for the stories? Fortunately I have no stories to share. Couple of small scars but all of my digits are still where they are supposed to be.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> I only have two stories of accidents I witnessed.


 OK, how about this one...

A carpenter guy in the neighborhood was cutting off eave boards while standing on a ladder. He lost his balance and in doing so, the circular saw he had in his hand swung up and cut off his ear.

The guy got down off the ladder and started to look around for his ear. Another neighbor came by and offered to help him look. After about 5 minutes, the neighbor found the ear, and showed it to the carpenter. The carpenter said it wasn't his ear, because his ear had a pencil behind it.








 







.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I was in my shop one day, working on the computer, when I saw a troll looking for free material to be published without me being compensated. "Fame!" thought I. "Glory!"

So like a numbskull I wrote up a long piece about people I'd helped, and who helped me, and funny things that happened to us.

The fellow who published my contribution made a lot of money in royalties.

Me? All I got was this certified letter from some lawyer, saying the people in my stories were suing me for slander.

Ouch! They're still bleeding me dry.


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## Brentley (Dec 2, 2012)

I can understand why folks might think that you are going to profit from their stories. If you are trying to be someone like David Thorne or Dog Shaming or another blog that has monetized by creating a book of stories then then you need to have a schtick more than just "please help me write a book".

Why would anyone want to 
1. Give up their stories for free? 
2. Purchase a book of wood working horror stories?

I can read all of the horror stories I need to in the shop safety forum here. 

Best of luck.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Dear Brently,
Wow! Another skeptic. Here are answers to your queries:
1. I have never heard of David or Dog.
2. Not everyone with a story is motivated by money – myself included. Some of us genuinely want to share our stories with others who, perhaps, have never been bitten by a table saw, cut on a router table or snagged by a drill press.

 3. Why would anyone purchase a book for $4.99 which describes what happened, how it happened and what lessons were learned? If it isn’t obvious to you, nothing I could add here would help.

4. I am happy for you that you have a Shop Safety Forum to access for free. That’s wonderful, and I hope the Forum has thousands of readers. In America, there are 40,000 table saw accidents annually, and these happen to people (like me) who apparently don’t keep up on safety forums. My book will be for them.

I know that you perceive some monetary value to your story and that’s fine. Maybe someone out there is willing to pay you big bucks for it. But there are over 100,000 power tool accidents in America annually, and I’ll keep searching for people who just want others to learn from their mistakes. Are there other books? Yes! Are there other forums and blogs? Yes! But 100,000 power tool users in America are hurt annually, so something’s missing. I want my book to be true, thorough, and very affordable. Being a publication printer, I can produce a 240-page book for under five bucks and that’s affordable. If you see them in bookstores for $24.99, then you should question my monetary motives.
Best Regards,
Kern Hagg


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Here's a really fun wood carving accident. It explains why I now wear a heavy denim apron.
I was working on the inside, a hollow place, in a carving in western red cedar
The crooked knife blade is the Lee Valley 06D10.41 (Crescent Knife Works #11.)
You make your own handles, haft and sharpen it yourself.
The usual process is to use wrist action in pull strokes to carve away the wood.

Well, I dug the thing in too deeply. Rather than back out and take thinner cuts, I tugged at it.
Sure enough, it popped out with a big chip. In the follow-through, the blade hit me in the chest.
"Ouch! That stings a little!"
Bedtime. Took my shirt off. Happened to glance in the mirror. Semicircular cut in my chest.
Bet you can't do that with a table saw.


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## DeanK (Jun 21, 2013)

Kern, 

First, I haven't looked at your blog, however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your intentions are good and you hope to help the regular consumer when it comes to power tool use. That's great. However, your tone in response to members here won't gain you much support. Reread your posts and ask yourself if you'd support someone with that defensive and sarcastic tone. 

Second, you could give away a copy of this book free with every table saw and drill press purchased in this country and the vast majority of people still wouldn't read it. When was the last time you read the "Caution: Risk of electrical shock" warnings in an instruction manual? When was the last time you drove from A to B without exceeding the speed limit at all? We all ignore safety measures all the time or choose to be ignorant of them. People will seek out information but it can rarely be forced upon them...


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Gotta spray the wasps under the thingie you hang the hose on.

Better put on safety glasses, right?

The one wasp I didn't outrun got me under the glasses. I tried to brush it off, but the glasses were in the way. Zing zing Zing zing Zing zing Zing zing right on the eyelid.

Moral of the story: NEVER EVER EVER wear safety glasses ?



No? How about, "Always read the directions" because if I had done so, I would have zapped the nest at the coldest part of the NIGHT


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## Stevedore (Dec 28, 2011)

Kern Hagg said:


> .... If it isn’t obvious to you, nothing I could add here would help...


 I'm guessing that your subtle putdowns aimed at members here will gain you little in the way of free material for your business venture. No matter; I can't envision too many people paying you $4.99 for your storybook.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

If I start a pointless thread, will ya'll pay me $4.99 each to go away? It occurs to me that with hundreds of tales, patterns might emerge that would lead to the next patentable safety gizmo.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

*Woodworking Accidents - Short Story from Steve Nuel*

Hi Steve,
Thank you very much for your 2 stories. However, I do have some questions regarding what happened. Would it be possible for you to email me your email address? My email address is [email protected]. Thank you. Kern Hagg


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## Priusjames (Jan 13, 2014)

Stevedore said:


> I'm guessing that your subtle putdowns aimed at members here will gain you little in the way of free material for your business venture. No matter; I can't envision too many people paying you $4.99 for your storybook.


This is a mild version of what I'm thinking after reading your repeated posts...there's a recurring theme.

I'm sorry to hear about your accident, I hope you're able to come to terms with your injury...however it happened (ironically, you didn't share your story). You seem determined to read about the mistakes of others, perhaps it's good therapy. PTSD?

Sadly, you are coming off like this (in my opinion): "I'm looking for help, as long as you don't have opinions...because I'm a thin-skinned snarky jerk who wants something for nothing, I'm on a mission for god and I feel sorry for you because you can't understand. Have faith in my message".

A simple reminder that communication is a two way street.

Good luck with your recovery...


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## shadowjfaith (Mar 31, 2014)

SteveEl said:


> It occurs to me that with hundreds of tales, patterns might emerge that would lead to the next patentable safety gizmo.


Good idea Steve, I think I'm going to start an analysis of the damage thread :shifty:


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## Bastien (Apr 3, 2013)

I read a similar thread here a couple weeks ago. Someone said if the op would have started out introducing himself, and posting his motives, they'd be more inclined to share what the guy was after. Whether anyone reads it or not is irrelevant. He wants to write the book, and was up front. If you have nothing constructive to say, shut the /-( up.

One of my favorite sayings is, "we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." Maybe if you go out to the shop and make something, your attitude will change.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Dear Dean K.,
 I apologize for my tone if it offends you. Honestly, I do grow weary of having to answer “naysayers” who believe I am doing this work for personal profit. Perhaps I am just naïve, but I thought everyone and anyone who had an accident like mine would want to contribute their personal stories. I still believe that there are thousands of dumb, bone-headed things we do in our workshops for which we are not cautioned in the machines’ Operating Manuals. I refuse to pay for stories because I don’t want fictional tales. I want to know how we’re really hurting ourselves. One contributor recently described having stuck his thumb into a moving table saw blade because, visually, he misjudged the outer (cutting) edge of the blade. This morning, I sent a letter, (below) to Presidents of these saw blade manufacturers. In my relatively tiny sampling, I’ve heard this same story now twice. Out of 40,000 table saw accidents annually in the U.S., do you suppose 100 of them could have been from people visually misjudging the outer edge of this cutting tool?
 In terms of marketing my book, no tool manufacturers would want to associate the “dark side” of power tool operations with their products. For the same reasons, retail stories are not likely candidates. Aside from free copies mailed to the book’s contributors, I hope to market the books to middle and high school Shop classes. I know that some folks might believe these stories to be “boring” (like safety sections of manuals), but if used in classrooms, reading would be mandatory. (And there will be a test on Friday.) For these reasons, I only want true stories, and I want to believe that each story brings value to an amateur woodworker (like myself.)
 In conclusion, let’s talk again about my profit motive. With this letter, I will offer to you or anyone your club chooses, to become my 50/50 partner in this venture. Come to Elgin, Illinois and I’ll show you the financials. The costs of the blog, the caricature artist’s invoice, our estimates to print 10,000 books etc. – And then, if you are willing to pitch-in and help, you can have 50% of the profits. I just don’t know what else to offer to the skeptics that I haven’t already offered. I’m open to any ideas except giving away skid-loads of free books. That I can’t afford to do.
Best Regards,
Kern Hagg
Letter to some saw blade companies:
My name is Kern Hagg, and as you can see from this letterhead, I own a printing company in Elgin, Illinois. Last December, I had a bad experience with my table saw (not your fault) because I was trying to “pull” a thin piece of wood from the backside of the saw’s table. BIG MISTAKE! No one had ever told me not to do this. I had to learn the hard way.
 I then wondered how many other people get hurt annually by workshop power tools due to ignorance, stupidity, laziness, carelessness, etc. I decided to use the internet to collect other stories like mine. Ultimately, I would like to print about 400 such stories describing what not to try to do with these tools. 
So far, I have chronicled about 75 such stories, and the majority of them pertain to table
saws. Kick-back is, so far, the #1 reason for accidents, but the #2 cause has surprised me. It involves people “reaching over” spinning blades and, in the process, running their fingers or entire hands into the blades. One of the story contributors told me that when the blade was moving, the outside ½” was less visible than the rest of the blade.

 Being a printer, we use electronic “screens” to create lighter shades of color. A 50% screen of black generates a medium shade of gray on the paper. I think this same phenomenon is at work with saw blades. The spaces between the teeth are obviously open, so that when the blade is turning, the outer circumference is a much lighter shade of gray then the rest of the blade. Of course, there are other reasons for accidentally introducing your hand to a moving blade, but I believe the optical illusion created by the spaces between the teeth could be the cause in a fair percentage of these “reaching over” accidents. This problem can be compounded by the fact that table saws are often operated in dimly-lit basements, garages or backyard sheds.
 What to do? I would suggest painting the outside ring of the blade, to the bottom of the open spaces, with rich black print/coating. When spinning, the outer circumference will then be much closer in color to the other metal of the blade, and I think it would reduce the frequency of bad “reaching” accidents caused by misjudging the outer (cutting) rim of teeth.
 I know this suggestion would certainly add to manufacturing costs, but just imagine the costs to families and insurance companies annually when these types of misjudgments occur – and they do occur. I can see them in the small sampling I am currently conducting.
 I would greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts on this idea to improve the safety of saw blades. Thank you.
Very truly yours,
Hagg Press, Inc.
Kern Hagg
President


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Kern Hagg said:


> Hi Steve,
> Thank you very much for your 2 stories. However, I do have some questions regarding what happened. Would it be possible for you to email me your email address? My email address is [email protected]. Thank you. Kern Hagg


 No thanks, and the first tale was fiction anyway. The wasp story, though, that was just as it happened. Nothing more to tell.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Kern Hagg said:


> Hi Steve,
> Thank you very much for your 2 stories. However, I do have some questions regarding what happened. Would it be possible for you to email me your email address? My email address is [email protected]. Thank you. Kern Hagg


No thanks, and besides, the first story was fiction and I already told the full tale about the wasps.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I could be wrong but....*

I think you're barking up a dead tree. The millions of table saw owners have made just about every possible "incident" of operator error imaginable.
The writers of owner's manuals have made the best instructions possible available to the new owners. You Tube videos give "real time" situations and some folks are created "kick back" videos to illustrate the physics involved. The Saw Stop videos show real time proof that SS technology works. The safety devices, blade cover/guard splitters and riving knives are well known to all who own a table saw.

So, do you really think a book of horror stories, illustrated or not, showing how things went South will be of interest? :blink: And what advantage would that have over the Safety thread that's here on the Forum which is free, and easy to access?

Why not post a Survey here and ask the question? You have that ability when you start a new thread, and the Safety section would be most appropriate. See what results you get from that, and it will be a pretty good indicator of where you should go from here....

Additionally, writing skills are not handed out like arms and eyeballs, most folks don't come born with them, so they are either innate or acquired. Reading stories by folks who are skilled writers, like Mark Twain, Will Rogers, Walter Farley, Et Al., whose writing skills captivated the reader, made them great reading. I'm not so sure about those of us who are less skilled... just sayin'


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## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Kern Hagg said:


> Dear Dean K.,
> I apologize for my tone if it offends you. Honestly, I do grow weary of having to answer naysayers who believe I am doing this work for personal profit. Perhaps I am just naïve, but I thought everyone and anyone who had an accident like mine would want to contribute their personal stories. I still believe that there are thousands of dumb, bone-headed things we do in our workshops for which we are not cautioned in the machines Operating Manuals. I refuse to pay for stories because I dont want fictional tales. I want to know how were really hurting ourselves. One contributor recently described having stuck his thumb into a moving table saw blade because, visually, he misjudged the outer (cutting) edge of the blade. This morning, I sent a letter, (below) to Presidents of these saw blade manufacturers. In my relatively tiny sampling, Ive heard this same story now twice. Out of 40,000 table saw accidents annually in the U.S., do you suppose 100 of them could have been from people visually misjudging the outer edge of this cutting tool?


Lots of people here have shared injury stories. Myself included. They're all over in the "Lets see some damage" thread. 

As for not being able to see the teeth on a saw blade while it's spinning? First of all, there is no reason for anyone to knowingly put fingers anywhere near that close to a spinning blade. Not even if it were lit up like a Christmas tree. 

Everyone knows accidents happen. Even if you have all the experience in the world, they sometimes still happen. Knowing how to minimize the chance is the best way to avoid them.

Personally, I'm a firm believer that nobody should be running machines like table saws or routers without the proper training. That's not something you can get from a manual. I've seen the damage they can do more times than I'd like to remember.


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## BaldEagle2012 (Jan 25, 2012)

Not on this forum to post my ww accidents for someone else to make money on my faults. No thanks. From glancing at most of the posts, I see the same feelings, you may have to get your info elsewhere.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Kern,
You remind me of Serge from North of our border. 

It is doubtful that Serge has ever built anything from wood. He appears to make his living by farming woodworking forums for ideas and techniques. When he finds something he submits the idea to magazines for their "Tips" columns. 

I'll give you a few tips that you can start your book with.

Always follow the safety rules for the machine that you are working with.

Always wear both eye and ear protection when using a machine.

Never, ever, allow your fingers to come into contact with sharp rotating machinery.


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## dustmagnet (Jul 12, 2012)

Not an accident, but a horror story. Yesterday at about 2:30 p.m. I ripped the top off of a package of peanut m&m's, I got two out of the package safely. Then disaster, I DROPPED the package, things went everywhere, before I knew it Lucy(my border collie) had already managed to harvest most of the morsels. I must come up with a different safety plan for eating m&m's.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*keep the dog in it's crate*

Then you can "safely" pick them up and eat them off the floor yourself.... that's what I'd do. 5 second rule applies here. :yes:


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## dustmagnet (Jul 12, 2012)

Actually, for peanut m&m's, the 5 second rule is extended to "however long it takes you to pick them up". If I'm not mistaken, that is the official unofficial theoretical hearsay rule in the book that some guy wrote from free solicited responses for a book he was working on for the official rules of eating from the floor.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The post 23 rattled a couple other memories. My first job in woodworking I was working for a guy that was retired from a different profession and wanted to do woodworking. One day he was going to rip a small piece of wood 7/8" wide. He held up his thumb and said it doesn't look 7/8" and proceeded to rip the piece until the blade got his thumb. It barely scratched him so it made the event funny. 

When I was in High School they had a woodshop class and the school had an old 36" Fay and Egan bandsaw. As a safety feature the shop teacher jury rigged a piece of wood on each side of the blade on the left side. One day one of the students noticed something moving between the boards and stuck his finger in there to see what it was. As best as I can remember I think the blade cut about 1/4" into his finger.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Ok this is getting ridiculous. Despite one or two post I think this guy has taken about as much ribbing as anyone could expect without getting upset. Hell Ted is quietly banned several times a year, John Ray put up a fight which must give you guys more ammo then apparently he moved to Australia and don't post here anymore. Yet you guys still post about him. We had the young supposed girl troll that had everyone of y'all wrapped around her finger before she got pissed at me for banning her. However the OP here seems to be handling it pretty good. I doubt anyone is interested so let's just let this thread die if not.

Now in the spirit of sharing I will let you have my story under one condition that has to be in writing. My picture gets on the cover.:laughing:


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## clpead (Oct 10, 2012)

rrbrown said:


> Ok this is getting ridiculous. Despite one or two post I think this guy has taken about as much ribbing as anyone could expect without getting upset. Hell Ted is quietly banned several times a year, John Ray put up a fight which must give you guys more ammo then apparently he moved to Australia and don't post here anymore. Yet you guys still post about him. We had the young supposed girl troll that had everyone of y'all wrapped around her finger before she got pissed at me for banning her. However the OP here seems to be handling it pretty good. I doubt anyone is interested so let's just let this thread die if not.
> 
> Now in the spirit of sharing I will let you have my story under one condition that has to be in writing. My picture gets on the cover.:laughing:


YIKES Did it get reattached?


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

BaldEagle2012 said:


> Not on this forum to post my ww accidents for someone else to make money on my faults. No thanks. From glancing at most of the posts, I see the same feelings, you may have to get your info elsewhere.


Hello BaldEagle2012,
 I can’t “unhang” people hung-up on the money thing. I’m not clear as to whether you are deathly afraid this book’s sales might be profitable, or are you hung-up on wanting a big bag of money for your story? In either case, I know there’s no way to convince a skeptic. I’ve tried and it’s futile. I’ll put you down in the “no, thanks” column.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Dear Woodnthings,
 Sometimes I feel like a 15-year old boy standing in his parents’ front yard screaming, “Doesn’t anyone understand me?!” I’ll try to address your points in the order they were described:
 1. Instruction Manuals are a good start, but I agree with you. Table saw owners do experience every kind of incident imaginable. But those imagined “horrors” far outnumber the few cautionary warnings offered in a manual. Also, the manual for my 40-year old Rockwell disintegrated about the same time as John Wilkes Booth’s “Wanted” poster.
 2. YouTube, Safety Forums, riving knives, SawStop and blade guards are wonderful, but cumulatively, they didn’t stop my accident or any of the other 39,999 table saw accidents in the U.S. last year.
 3. If you’re anyone like me, you get bored staring at a computer monitor all day. When returning from a job or school at the end of the day, wouldn’t you rather curl up with a good book? Operating manuals describe and show what can happen. My book will describe what has happened. 
 4. I have only read about 150 table saw stories, so I’ll admit that my sample is relatively tiny. But, there are not a million kinds of incidents out there. I am seeing a very finite list of common causes like kick-back, “reach over” and the bucking board. My book cannot describe every table saw accident on record, but it will describe 50-60 examples of 8-10 most common causes. My book most probably will cover 95% of the kinds of table saw accidents. 
 5. Sorry, but I’m missing your point on “writing skills”. Are you trying to say that some folks’ skills are so weak that they shouldn’t be sending me their stories? I much prefer stories written in the author’s own words. I will edit stories if I think they need help for clarity. Also, I will have the book’s contents checked by a professional editor before going to press.
 Woodnthings, (sorry that I don’t know your name) since I began this project with a recitation of my own accident, I have been inundated with suggestions as to what I should have done (a blade guard would have helped) but that’s all hindsight. I applaud each of you who read the Forums regularly. If you didn’t, we’d have tens of thousands of additional accidents. But my book is for that 15-year-old kid screaming in his front yard. Next year, he begins Shop class in high school, and I would like to think he can learn a lot from our mistakes. Your forum, someone’s blog, or a book like mine – maybe all of the above, but woodn’t (pardon the pun) it be wonderful if we could take a bite out of that 40,000 number?
Thank you for your comments.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

rrich said:


> Kern,
> You remind me of Serge from North of our border.
> 
> It is doubtful that Serge has ever built anything from wood. He appears to make his living by farming woodworking forums for ideas and techniques. When he finds something he submits the idea to magazines for their "Tips" columns.
> ...


Dear Rrich,
 All I did was post a request for true, genuine stories of workshop accidents. I can’t apologize for being a printer – that’s how I feed my family. My accident was real enough as I type this with no feeling in my thumb pad. But honestly, have you guys been somehow worked over by a traveling scam artist? My God! Everyone’s so concerned that my interests are disingenuous – I only want to make money off a thumb cut? I’m looking for people who will swallow their pride and share their sometimes embarrassing stories (like mine) just to hope that one kid can save one thumb, not doing the same dumb thing we did. If you’re afraid that I have other evil, selfish motives, please just ignore my request. Thank you.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Danno said:


> Lots of people here have shared injury stories. Myself included. They're all over in the "Lets see some damage" thread.
> 
> As for not being able to see the teeth on a saw blade while it's spinning? First of all, there is no reason for anyone to knowingly put fingers anywhere near that close to a spinning blade. Not even if it were lit up like a Christmas tree.
> 
> ...


Hello Danno,
 I can give you one reason why a person puts his or her hand near a spinning blade because I’ve done it. It’s not a good reason – just a reason. Imagine mitering a ½” off the end of a 1x4. No rip fence necessary, so no push-stick in hand. The off-cut begins dancing back into the spinning blade. You have two choices: 1) Risk taking it in the chops before the saw blade can be turned off, or 2) Try to flick the piece off the table with the hand not holding the rest of the board. I’d vote for ducking down while turning off the saw. Three of my story contributors opted for the “flick” and now regret it. I was told by a Shop teacher in Great Brittan that European instructors preach to the kids never to allow a hand within 30 mm of a cutting tool. I don’t know how that’s always possible, but it’s a good idea if you can pull it off.
 I absolutely agree with you about training. I’ll go one further – I think there should be some sort of re-certification for people as they age. A refresher course should be mandatory when you consider the costs to taxpayers and insurance companies for the horrid, gruesome accidents which so often occur. Also, it would be a golden opportunity to introduce new safety technologies to folks (like me) who may be driving older equipment.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

dustmagnet said:


> Actually, for peanut m&m's, the 5 second rule is extended to "however long it takes you to pick them up". If I'm not mistaken, that is the official unofficial theoretical hearsay rule in the book that some guy wrote from free solicited responses for a book he was working on for the official rules of eating from the floor.


Dustmagnet,
 Be careful with that particular candy. They drive fillings down into your molars and crack teeth like a log, a wedge and a sledge hammer. That is an accident waiting to happen.
Kern Hagg


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Thanks for your lengthy reply*

I did read it. You made some good points.

Here's my short version. Power tool accidents are man made, operator errors in other words. Lack of training, experience, haste, short cutting, working when fatigued, lack of safety equipment all contribute to man cause "disasters".

In the rare instance where the blade just leaped into the operator hands or fingers, those "accidents" would be unavoidable...just my opinion.
If your desire is to reduce accidents through the exposure to these 'horror stories" as I have chosen to call them, I think there may be a more efficient way. You can carry on with your book of course, but if my mission in life was to reduce power tools accidents, I would use the real time visual effects available on You Tube rather than a book, but that's just me, I'm a visual guy.

Others whose actual profession is woodworking have made some fine Safety Videos which I have learned from, even after some 50 years of table saw usage. There is nothing like seeing the Physics of kickback, lack of hold downs and lack of splitters in real time action. It is always about the Physics when things go South, another opinion I have.

If you think a book is better, then more power to you.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Kern, you have to understand on a forum there are some folks that consider themselves a comedian and others that are just a hothead. There are also those that are also willing to help. For you to have any peace you are just going to have to pick out those willing to help and ignore the rest. Accidents in the shop don't happen every day so a lot of folks just don't have the experience. It's usually just us old-timers that have been around for decades that have witnessed accidents.


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## shadowjfaith (Mar 31, 2014)

Well said Steve, as for Kern I wish you luck. I don't have any stories to share with you, but it looks like you have your mind made up on what your going to do and that's all anyone can ask for. If I saw your book for $5 in a shop somewhere, I would pick it up as no matter how many safety videos/classes/equipment you've seen/have there is always some new way life tries to kill you (never would have thought eye protection from hornets would be a bad thing, but now I know it's a possibility).


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

I can see the place for a book. There are books about skydiving accidents, scuba accidents, flying accidents, climbing accidents, and just about any other type of accident. Amongst woodworkers there may be some portion of us that would read such a book. Hell, all the ones I know of listed in the categories I gave are exactly what you're considering- compilations of other people's stories. 

The difference, however, is they're generally written by somebody who has experience in collecting the data and is considered, amongst the community "worthy" (if you will) of compiling the information because they've been around a while and proven themselves part of the community. Coming into a community, as an outsider, apparently trying to benefit from other people's misfortunes never goes well.

My suggestion: Stick around, participate, continue to ask other questions and provide answers to other people's questions. Develop a reputation for being "one of us". Then, read through the existing accident threads and privately ask people if you can use their stories. I think you will find people much more receptive to such a progression than coming in as your first post.

Just my opinion.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

One more thing, you're welcome to use my story. (It ain't much but I think I've posted about it here as part of another thread or part of a build thread of mine...) 

I've found a picture of myself in an "outdoor" book of things to do in the DC area without ever knowing I was going to be part of the book. Kind of a thrill, though only people who know me well will recognize me. It would be good to know about my part in a book beforehand, rather than finding it on a bookshelf years later by accident.

If you do use my story, just let me know about it.


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## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Kern Hagg said:


> Hello Danno,
> I can give you one reason why a person puts his or her hand near a spinning blade because I’ve done it. It’s not a good reason – just a reason. Imagine mitering a ½” off the end of a 1x4. No rip fence necessary, so no push-stick in hand. The off-cut begins dancing back into the spinning blade. You have two choices: 1) Risk taking it in the chops before the saw blade can be turned off, or 2) Try to flick the piece off the table with the hand not holding the rest of the board. I’d vote for ducking down while turning off the saw.


I'd rather take the piece in the chops. You could always use a small off cut as well. Anything's better than trying to flick a small piece away from the blade.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Kern Hagg said:


> Hello Danno,
> I can give you one reason why a person puts his or her hand near a spinning blade because I’ve done it. It’s not a good reason – just a reason. Imagine mitering a ½” off the end of a 1x4. No rip fence necessary, so no push-stick in hand. The off-cut begins dancing back into the spinning blade. You have two choices: 1) Risk taking it in the chops before the saw blade can be turned off, or 2) Try to flick the piece off the table with the hand not holding the rest of the board.


I'd go with option three, or possibly four.

3) Use the push stick hanging from the side of my table saw, where I always kept it (when I had a table saw) in case I needed to get a small part away from the blade.

4) Remain aware that I'm standing well out of the way of any flying debris and that the blade guard will likely catch a piece that small, and tap the power switch with my knee.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

OK, I'll be contrary to all the others who feel you are profiteering off them. I've been wood working for 20+ years and fortunately have only had several minor accidents.

First was when I was cutting the corners off a series of cutting boards. The off cuts were piling up behind the band saw blade and I flicked them off with my right hand no problem. One however was to the left of the blade and I attempted to flick it away with my left thumb. Took a nice little crescent off the tip of my left thumb. Lesson: turn the saw off before flicking away the off cuts.

Second was an almost broken right thumb from a table saw kickback. A thin piece had gotten wedged between the spinning blade and the throat plate. Launched that piece like a rocket and sounded like a ball being struck with a bat when it hit the first knuckle of my thumb. Sucker swelled up to 3 times it size almost immediately. Lesson: zero clearance throat plate.

Third was when I just started turning. I was attempting to free hand sharpen a tool and had the tool rest too far away from the grinder. The angle was a little awkward and I switched hand positions but my finger slipped and got caught between the tool rest and the sharp corner edge of a brand new grinder wheel. 4 stitches to the inner part of my left ring finger. Lesson: Use a jig. Put the tool rest closer.

Good luck with the book and like FrankP said, if you end up using these just let me know.


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## jdpber (Mar 25, 2014)

I will contribute. Here goes. 

I got a splinter once.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

jdpber said:


> I will contribute. Here goes.
> 
> I got a splinter once.


You must not be doing enough. :laughing:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Speaking of taking one in the chops, I wonder how many of us has taken a pine knot in the face. I caught one, one time just under my nose. What I always expected to happen and never did was one of the millions of staples they put in the edges of lumber to tag it. You can't ever seem to find all of them.


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## jdpber (Mar 25, 2014)

Staple to the finger or hand equals razor slice I have done that a time or seven


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## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> Speaking of taking one in the chops, I wonder how many of us has taken a pine knot in the face. I caught one, one time just under my nose. What I always expected to happen and never did was one of the millions of staples they put in the edges of lumber to tag it. You can't ever seem to find all of them.


I once was cutting mitres using a sled. When I pulled the piece of oak out of the jig, it slipped from my hand and bounced onto the blade. WHAM! Right on the bridge of my nose. I still have the scar...haha


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Seriously I make a genuine offer to let you use my story and get no response. All I can say is *WOW*


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

clpead said:


> YIKES Did it get reattached?


Ah No! It was 4 years ago this past Monday and healed up nicely. 

Funny thing I noticed. Everyone ask about phantom pain and it feeling like its still there. Yes to both but I noticed the other day my right hand is acting as if it's missing that finger when I do things. I grabbed something the other day just like I have to with my left hand because of the missing finger. :laughing: very strange.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

dustmagnet said:


> Not an accident, but a horror story. Yesterday at about 2:30 p.m. I ripped the top off of a package of peanut m&m's, I got two out of the package safely. Then disaster, I DROPPED the package, things went everywhere, before I knew it Lucy(my border collie) had already managed to harvest most of the morsels. I must come up with a different safety plan for eating m&m's.


Oh the horrors of lost peanut M & M. The peanut variety would really cause me to cry.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Kern,
Let me approach this the Samuel Clemens way.

If you give me $20, I'll let you write my book on Mission Furniture. 

But you're being a lot more generous by not charging any of us to do your work for you. Very generous I think. 

If you're not aware of Samuel Clemens, Mark Twain is his nom de plume.

I hope that you understand, now.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)




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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Dear Woodnthings,
 I got a kick out of your “short” version. Don’t you have to agree that it’s hard to discuss this topic in only a few sentences?
 I don’t think of you and I as adversaries. You may like Fords, while I like Chevys. You may like asparagus, while I prefer carrots. You like watching videos, while I like a thorough treatment in a book. I have read postings from others who trust Owner’s Manuals. Some get their ideas on safety from safety forums. I’m casting my vote for ALL OF THE ABOVE.
 Many have chosen to critique my use of the word “Horrors.” I can imagine some more wishy-washy terms like “mishaps” or “mistakes.” How about “Unfortunate Occurrences from the Home Workshop”? I like “Horrors” because it’s a better fit.
 My daughter is a thoracic surgeon (2nd year resident) putting in a 6-week stint at Chicago’s ill-reputed Cook County Hospital as I write this. She’s in their Trauma Center. She told me last night, “Poppy, if we got rid of guns, cars and power tools, I’d have nothing to do!” I don’t want to turn off future readers with morbidity, but I think it’s irresponsible to somehow shine a happy light on the effects of being tangled-up with a running table saw. How many table saw accidents are there in Canada annually to be added to the 40,000 here?
 My book is just a very small sliver of the safety pie – not the whole pie. When it comes to these kinds of workshop accidents, we should try to give a young person starting out in Shop class every imaginable advantage when it comes to safety – your ideas, my idea and anything else that can work.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Kern, you have to understand on a forum there are some folks that consider themselves a comedian and others that are just a hothead. There are also those that are also willing to help. For you to have any peace you are just going to have to pick out those willing to help and ignore the rest. Accidents in the shop don't happen every day so a lot of folks just don't have the experience. It's usually just us old-timers that have been around for decades that have witnessed accidents.


Dear Steve,
 Thank you for the kind words. As I know you can tell, I haven’t felt a lotta love this week. I admit to being overly defensive because I truly believe in the potential utility of my book. I can’t and won’t try to shoot down all of the other safety ideas that have been thrown at me this week. They’re all good, but when looking at accident statistics, these safety ideas obviously aren’t enough. How many safety ideas were incorporated in automobiles before seat belts became mandatory? There is always more we can do.
 My brother, Steve, has a favorite saying, “No good deed goes unpunished.” I’m an old-timer too, but don’t worry about me. I will finish this book, and if it saves one kid’s thumb, I will certainly know it was worth fighting this fight. Just try buttoning your left cuff without your right thumb. This kind of grief goes on for a lifetime – long after medical bills are paid. Thank you again for your thoughts on the matter.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

shadowjfaith said:


> Well said Steve, as for Kern I wish you luck. I don't have any stories to share with you, but it looks like you have your mind made up on what your going to do and that's all anyone can ask for. If I saw your book for $5 in a shop somewhere, I would pick it up as no matter how many safety videos/classes/equipment you've seen/have there is always some new way life tries to kill you (never would have thought eye protection from hornets would be a bad thing, but now I know it's a possibility).


Dear Shadowjfaith,
 I know that to younger people (like my sons 33, 30 and 27) books are passé. They watch videos on their Smart phones. But I’ll be 66 in May, and to me, a “thread” is something my wife uses to sew-up the hole in my flannel shirt torn open by a table saw (just kidding). Seriously though, I’m not a mechanical engineer or electrical guru so I lack the skills to engineer a better mouse trap. My wife has a video camera, but I have never used one, and I wouldn’t know where to begin. I could help write an Operator’s Manual, but nobody has ever asked. On April 24, 2014, I learned from my assistant, Sue, how to spell “YouTube”. 
 I did severely hurt myself, and I looked within to ask, “What can I do?” I managed to go to college and attained an M.B.A. in 1973. I can write and I enjoy it. I am an amateur woodworker who knows the vernacular and has a well-equipped workshop, but I am not a journeyman like many of this forum’s members. And I work professionally in a family printing company. Typesetting, designing, printing and perfect binding is what our company does seven days per week.
 So as you can see, I’m trying to do what I can do to save that thumb. I don’t have the skill sets or the resources to make a worthwhile contribution in any other way. My book will not be the panacea for workshops accidents, but I’m sure we can add something to the effort.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

frankp said:


> I can see the place for a book. There are books about skydiving accidents, scuba accidents, flying accidents, climbing accidents, and just about any other type of accident. Amongst woodworkers there may be some portion of us that would read such a book. Hell, all the ones I know of listed in the categories I gave are exactly what you're considering- compilations of other people's stories.
> 
> The difference, however, is they're generally written by somebody who has experience in collecting the data and is considered, amongst the community "worthy" (if you will) of compiling the information because they've been around a while and proven themselves part of the community. Coming into a community, as an outsider, apparently trying to benefit from other people's misfortunes never goes well.
> 
> ...


Dear Frankp,
 When I started this project three months ago, I had never heard of a “riving knife,” a “palm gouge” or a “thread.” See? Old guys still have the capacity to learn. Last week, someone asked me to make a list of things I have made in my life (to qualify me to author such a book). It would be a very long list including a coffee table, toy box, blanket rack, go-kart, wooden flower vase, jewelry box for a little daughter, six seasonal wreaths for our front door, shelving racks, work benches and when I was hurt, three short oaken plant stands for my wife for Christmas. On a 1-10 scale, I’m a 6. But no matter how smart you are about anything, there’s always someone smarter. I liked your quote. Here are two more of my favorites: “Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.” (Ralph Waldo Emerson), and “If you try, you might succeed. If you don’t try, you cannot succeed.” (At this writing, I don’t know the originator).
 On the subject of being a “newbie” to the Forum, *believe* me when I tell you that I felt it after my request for stories on Day 1. I wish I had time to know all of you better, but for me, there’s a lot more sand in the bottom of the hourglass than in the top. Did you know that the average man in North America only lives about 26,280 days from birth to death? On May 25, I will have hit the 24,090 day mark. Now, do you understand my impetuosity? I do want to get this book done in the next year. Come to Chicago. My boys and I will take you out for a few brewski’s.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

frankp said:


> One more thing, you're welcome to use my story. (It ain't much but I think I've posted about it here as part of another thread or part of a build thread of mine...)
> 
> I've found a picture of myself in an "outdoor" book of things to do in the DC area without ever knowing I was going to be part of the book. Kind of a thrill, though only people who know me well will recognize me. It would be good to know about my part in a book beforehand, rather than finding it on a bookshelf years later by accident.
> 
> If you do use my story, just let me know about it.


Hi Frank,
I'm sorry, but I cannot find your woodworking accident - short story in any of the forums here. Can you give me an idea of where it's posted or perhaps email your story to [email protected] or horrorsfromthehomeworkshop.com. Thank you.
Kern Hagg


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

I have subscribed to this thread because I am interested in the subject matter.

To write a book I believe you can be anyone. A qualified person is not too likely to pick up and read your book unless it just happens to be there or they are interested in the experiences of others. 

Some popular childrens books have been written by children ... fancy that, a child know what appeals and what another child will read.

I think your book has huge potential to appeal to the large section of the market. I have not read all this thread yet (thread is all the posts from start to end) but will get to it when I have time and if I have anything to contribute I will. 

All the best

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

frankp said:


> There are books about skydiving accidents, scuba accidents,


 Blasphemy! There are no Scuba accidents, only incidents. 

Most of my accidents happened while working on cars (they bite), in a machine shop (don't wear a ring while working on a lathe) or while welding (never, ever, ever weld galvanized steel without a respirator). Hell, I even have a few chemistry lab accidents that I learned a lot from (how did I ever get that bronze screwdriver through my knuckle?). I have learned a number of truisms along the way.

It's never the tool's fault. 
Common sense isn't. 
Experience comes from making mistakes and mistakes are often painful. 
Just because something is idiot proof doesn't mean I can't figure out how to still get hurt by it. I'm special.


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## shadowjfaith (Mar 31, 2014)

NetDoc said:


> Just because something is idiot proof doesn't mean I can't figure out how to still get hurt by it.


Quote of the year. I think this should be the subtitle of the book :laughing:

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm not the only one... Look at this poor fella who got mauled by a nurse shark, which is one of the most timid sharks in the world. Talk about a major hickey!


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## shadowjfaith (Mar 31, 2014)

NetDoc said:


> I'm not the only one... Look at this poor fella who got mauled by a nurse shark, which is one of the most timid sharks in the world. Talk about a major hickey!


I was about to say reading the first part of your post that nurse sharks are very mild and take a lot of abuse before fighting back, but your friend here must of been around during mating season or when babies where around.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Kern Hagg said:


> Dear Frankp,
> When I started this project three months ago, I had never heard of a “riving knife,” a “palm gouge” or a “thread.” See? Old guys still have the capacity to learn. Last week, someone asked me to make a list of things I have made in my life (to qualify me to author such a book). It would be a very long list including a coffee table, toy box, blanket rack, go-kart, wooden flower vase, jewelry box for a little daughter, six seasonal wreaths for our front door, shelving racks, work benches and when I was hurt, three short oaken plant stands for my wife for Christmas. On a 1-10 scale, I’m a 6. But no matter how smart you are about anything, there’s always someone smarter. I liked your quote. Here are two more of my favorites: “Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.” (Ralph Waldo Emerson), and “If you try, you might succeed. If you don’t try, you cannot succeed.” (At this writing, I don’t know the originator).
> On the subject of being a “newbie” to the Forum, *believe* me when I tell you that I felt it after my request for stories on Day 1. I wish I had time to know all of you better, but for me, there’s a lot more sand in the bottom of the hourglass than in the top. Did you know that the average man in North America only lives about 26,280 days from birth to death? On May 25, I will have hit the 24,090 day mark. Now, do you understand my impetuosity? I do want to get this book done in the next year. Come to Chicago. My boys and I will take you out for a few brewski’s.
> Kern Hagg


You do realize that 2000+ days is almost 8 years, right? That's a lot of time to get your project finished. That said, I'd have to dig for my story and I can't do that right now. Good luck. If I get a chance I'll try to forward you the story.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

rrich said:


> Kern,
> Let me approach this the Samuel Clemens way.
> 
> If you give me $20, I'll let you write my book on Mission Furniture.
> ...


Rich,
 The Samuel Clemens reference is cute, (I read Tom Sawyer in 4th grade too) but not analogous. The French is impressive, but not germane. Tom Sawyer could have painted the entire fence himself. I cannot write 400 non-fiction stories by myself, thankfully. I’m looking for people who, like, me, hope that others can learn from our “horrors”. Did you ever have to race to the hospital with your finger in a zip-lock bag? No words I can use would aptly describe the feelings one has at those times.
 I can tell from your tone that your skepticism would prevent you from helping us. I’ll put you in the “No, thanks” column.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

sawdustfactory said:


> OK, I'll be contrary to all the others who feel you are profiteering off them. I've been wood working for 20+ years and fortunately have only had several minor accidents.
> 
> First was when I was cutting the corners off a series of cutting boards. The off cuts were piling up behind the band saw blade and I flicked them off with my right hand no problem. One however was to the left of the blade and I attempted to flick it away with my left thumb. Took a nice little crescent off the tip of my left thumb. Lesson: turn the saw off before flicking away the off cuts.
> 
> ...


Dear Sawdustfactory,
 Thank you so much for your stories. For me, it’s a 3-fer! These are exactly the kinds of stories I want to put in my book. They’re innocent accidents that could happen to anyone. You and I will never know about the trips to the ER that didn’t happen because we took the time to explain our mishaps to others. But I can just imagine. 
 Could you kindly email to me at [email protected] your email address and name, or do you prefer your stories to be anonymous? Thanks again.


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## Hwood (Oct 21, 2011)

Once in awhile I help a buddy out with a job of his, extra set of hands basically, not skill. last month we were in a place that pressure treats wood. As I was waiting for a guy employed there to finish up putting staples into the end of each board on a pallet so he could then move the fork lift and I could drive out, I just couldnt hold it back anymore and had to tell him how I felt about those staples. I know it was not his choice to do that just part of his job... but it slipped. That has nothing to do with a story asked for but staples came up a couple of times.......


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## Dopalgangr (Jan 20, 2012)

Kern Hagg said:


> Rich, The Samuel Clemens reference is cute, (I read Tom Sawyer in 4th grade too) but not analogous. The French is impressive, but not germane. Tom Sawyer could have painted the entire fence himself. I cannot write 400 non-fiction stories by myself, thankfully. I&#146;m looking for people who, like, me, hope that others can learn from our &#147;horrors&#148;. Did you ever have to race to the hospital with your finger in a zip-lock bag? No words I can use would aptly describe the feelings one has at those times. I can tell from your tone that your skepticism would prevent you from helping us. I&#146;ll put you in the &#147;No, thanks&#148; column. Kern Hagg


Hey Kern,

Like Steve said, forums are full of comedians and trolls alike. Mainly people choose to contribute their dribble just to gain more posts instead of actually something useful. I wouldn't even respond to those as they will just reply to add to their numbers.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Dopalgangr said:


> Hey Kern,
> 
> Like Steve said, forums are full of comedians and trolls alike. Mainly people choose to contribute their dribble just to gain more posts instead of actually something useful. I wouldn't even respond to those as they will just reply to add to their numbers.


Hey Kern, forums are also full of tight asses with under developed senses of humor.

LTFU people!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*reading small text in your posts*

You continue to post here in Times New Roman, 10 point or so, which is difficult to read at best. The standard/default font for the forum is Verdana 12 point, unless I'm mistaken. If you are writing a book you could chose a font that is the most legible and easy to read, not a font that is too small and difficult to read. Older folks especially have difficuly reading the smaller text. I'm rather surprised that you haven't noticed the difference, although it is "minor" it is still important. :yes:


 Could you kindly email to me at [email protected] your email address and name, or do you prefer your stories to be anonymous? Thanks again.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

DaveTTC said:


> I have subscribed to this thread because I am interested in the subject matter.
> 
> To write a book I believe you can be anyone. A qualified person is not too likely to pick up and read your book unless it just happens to be there or they are interested in the experiences of others.
> 
> ...


Hi Dave,
 I cringe a little when I re-read my own posts. I keep calling it “my” book and it is clearly “our” book. I “authored” a couple of stories, but I’m just editing the others. I am humbled by the kind efforts of so many others. Many of the story contributors describe what they did as “dumb,” “stupid,” “embarrassing,” etc. Yet they believe, as I do, that eating a little personal crow may eventually avoid an accident like their own. I’m proud to be working with them, and I promise that the book will be a credit to each of them.
Kern Hagg


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Kern Hagg said:


> Rich,
> The Samuel Clemens reference is cute, (I read Tom Sawyer in 4th grade too) but not analogous. The French is impressive, but not germane. Tom Sawyer could have painted the entire fence himself. I cannot write 400 non-fiction stories by myself, thankfully. I’m looking for people who, like, me, hope that others can learn from our “horrors”. Did you ever have to race to the hospital with your finger in a zip-lock bag? No words I can use would aptly describe the feelings one has at those times.
> I can tell from your tone that your skepticism would prevent you from helping us. *I’ll put you in the “No, thanks” column.*
> Kern Hagg


Ok something is not feeling right with this whole thread. First I offered you my story and yes it had a condition that was half hearted joking but you never responded. Matter a fact you did respond to every other post. Ok let's say it was just a fluke. I sent you PM's and a email yet still nothing. 

So I started thinking why would you not except my story when that's what your here asking for? Why not say thank you but I already have a cover. Can I still use your story? Why not respond to my PM's and or email even if to just say no thanks. 

See these things bother me and usually when things bother me there are reasons. So I plan on paying close attention and researching you a little more. I usually get the trolls early on but there have been a few that it took awhile. I've had some go as far as to post things about me around the internet because I caught and banned them. No matter if your a troll or not something is not right with this thread. 

*So for those reasons you can put me in the No Thanks column. I take back my offer based on your actions.*:thumbsup:


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

rrbrown said:


> Ok something is not feeling right with this whole thread. First I offered you my story and yes it had a condition that was half hearted joking but you never responded. Matter a fact you did respond to every other post. Ok let's say it was just a fluke. I sent you PM's and a email yet still nothing.
> 
> So I started thinking why would you not except my story when that's what your here asking for? Why not say thank you but I already have a cover. Can I still use your story? Why not respond to my PM's and or email even if to just say no thanks.
> 
> ...


Hi Rich,
I'm Sue, Kern's assistant. Kern is out of the office today. I apologize, but I have not been able to locate your story on the forum for Kern. Could you kindly assist me by letting me know where your story is located on the forum or send it to horrorsfromthehomeworkshop.com or [email protected] please? I also checked all Kern's old emails and junk mails and do not see an email from you. If you wouldn't mind sending Kern another email with your story and email address, I will gladly forward it to Kern for him to reveiw tonight. Thank you.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Kern Hagg said:


> Hi Rich,
> I'm Sue, Kern's assistant. Kern is out of the office today. I apologize, but I have not been able to locate your story on the forum for Kern. Could you kindly assist me by letting me know where your story is located on the forum or send it to horrorsfromthehomeworkshop.com or [email protected] please? I also checked all Kern's old emails and junk mails and do not see an email from you. If you wouldn't mind sending Kern another email with your story and email address, I will gladly forward it to Kern for him to reveiw tonight. Thank you.


No I don't think so. As I said something seems fishy here. 

No way the PM's and or email got lost.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Danno said:


> I once was cutting mitres using a sled. When I pulled the piece of oak out of the jig, it slipped from my hand and bounced onto the blade. WHAM! Right on the bridge of my nose. I still have the scar...haha


Hi Danno,
I'm Kern's assistant, Sue. Kern is out of the office today; however, I'm following up on some tasks assigned to me. Kern would like to use your story regarding cutting mitres using a sled. Is it okay that he uses your story in his book? Would you like your named used in his book or do you prefer to be anonymous? If you would like to use your name and not post it on this forum could you kindly send an email to Kern at [email protected]. Thank you.


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## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Sure. He can have that one. I've already put it out there.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Kern Hagg said:


> Hi Dave, I cringe a little when I re-read my own posts. I keep calling it “my” book and it is clearly “our” book. I “authored” a couple of stories, but I’m just editing the others. I am humbled by the kind efforts of so many others. Many of the story contributors describe what they did as “dumb,” “stupid,” “embarrassing,” etc. Yet they believe, as I do, that eating a little personal crow may eventually avoid an accident like their own. I’m proud to be working with them, and I promise that the book will be a credit to each of them. Kern Hagg


Hi Kern / Sue,

Given the below I now dont know who I am talking to. I have yet to start this thread from the begining. Where I picked it up all that was being spoken about was table saw accidents.

Are you interested in any sort of woodworking accident, only ones that involve tools (hand tools and power tools), just power tools and machinery, just heavy machinery, just table saws?



Kern Hagg said:


> Hi Rich, I'm Sue, Kern's assistant. Kern is out of the office today. I apologize, but I have not been able to locate your story on the forum for Kern. Could you kindly assist me by letting me know where your story is located on the forum or send it to horrorsfromthehomeworkshop.com or [email protected] please? I also checked all Kern's old emails and junk mails and do not see an email from you. If you wouldn't mind sending Kern another email with your story and email address, I will gladly forward it to Kern for him to reveiw tonight. Thank you.


Hi Sue,

I dont have an issue with two people working together on something and a collaborative work etc. I think even if you have access to Kerns ID and check it for him it would still be better if you had your own ID and anything you respond to on behalf of Kern you do from that ID.

Perhaps the issue with Rich could be related to this practice and a breakdown in communication somewhere.

Regards

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*we were led to belive...*

That this was a lone, injured, grade 6 woodworker who wanted to collect various tales of misfortune and compile them into a book, for which there would be an acknowledgment for those who contributed. 

Now comes along an assistant, Sue who is collaborating in some fashion with the author, making responses and requests for the stories. Maybe there is no conflict or even no hint of impropriety here, but I am suspicious. Those of you who wish to give away your stories should do so, by all means. For those who are reluctant, like me, I will wait and see how it goes. I still find the whole concept a bit bizarre, even though I agree with the motive, just not the execution. Helping folks avoid injury is always a good thing, profiting from it ...I donno? :blink:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> That this was a lone, injured, grade 6 woodworker who wanted to collect various tales of misfortune and compile them into a book, for which there would be an acknowledgment for those who contributed.
> 
> Now comes along an assistant, Sue who is collaborating in some fashion with the author, making responses and requests for the stories. Maybe there is no conflict or even no hint of impropriety here, but I am suspicious. Those of you who wish to give away your stories should do so, by all means. For those who are reluctant, like me, I will wait and see how it goes. I still find the whole concept a bit bizarre, even though I agree with the motive, just not the execution. Helping folks avoid injury is always a good thing, profiting from it ...I donno? :blink:


This is generally how things fall apart with the trolls, scams or spam. One thing leads to another. To be fair I have not directly linked anything yet but something is not right as I said.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Kern Hagg said:


> Hi,
> My name is Kern Hagg. If any of you have checked out my blog, horrorsfromthehomeworkshop.com, I think you can see what I’m trying to do. I want to publish a book which will explain workshop mishaps so that readers can learn from our mistakes. Hopefully, our efforts can save a few fingers.
> Earlier this week, a potential contributor from north of our border, chose not to participate because of my “profit motive”. That is sad when you consider all of the good we can do, collectively, if this book became mandatory reading in Shop classes. Also, profit is not my motivation. I did a real job on my right hand, trying a maneuver on a table saw which I had never been warned not to try. THAT was my motivation and always will be.
> The great majority of accidents I have read about, originated on table saws. I would also like to hear about lathes, drill presses, band and radial arm saws, planers, jointers, etc., etc. I cannot get to the promised land (400 stories) without your help. If you will, please pass my request along. I will get to 400, but so far, it’s pretty slow going. Thanks to you all.
> ...




I've been avoiding commenting on this thread, but here's my take.

I think what we have here is someone who's not used to dealing with forums, and doesn't realize how many scammers we get to see. Looking at the blog and the Hagg Press website, possibly Kern just isn't used to dealing with the internet. In either case, I don't think this is a scam, just someone who doesn't really know what he's doing.

That said: I think the premise is disturbingly naive. "That is sad when you consider all of the good we can do, collectively, if this book became mandatory reading in Shop classes. " Shop class? How many school systems still have shop class? I'm pretty sure none of the ones near me do. I was in the last class in my middle school to have shop class, and that was in... 1990, I think? I can't remember which year I took it. Something like that, anyway. We were one of the last area schools to shut it down, too.

Furthermore, the horror stories are everywhere on the web. From the thread here, to videos on YouTube, to similar threads on other sites, to the pages of warnings that come with every woodworking book and the time spent in a lot of how-to videos, people are warned. The problem is, people today have been conditioned to ignore those warnings. "Yeah, yeah, do not use table saw while intoxicated, on medication, standing up, sitting down, in the shower, standing in a waist deep pile of lemurs, tired, or at any other time. Do I really need to read these warnings?" "Do not use toaster in shower or while under water? Was I really going to do that anyway? Wouldn't that just make my toast soggy?" "Ooohh... here's a good one! 'Do not lick mixer blades while mixer is running.' Did someone actually try that?" The toaster and mixer ones are warnings I've actually seen, by the way.

Another book of horror stories isn't going to change anything. Bringing back shop classes and personal liability (instead of just suing the manufacturer of the saw when we remove all the safety gear and then injure ourselves) is what will make a difference. The people who most need the warnings -- the ones prone to doing foolish things on a regular basis -- are the very ones who won't read it. They already think they know everything, and they're not sensible or educated enough (you need at least one of those, in my opinion) to take proper safety precautions.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

amckenzie4 said:


> I've been avoiding commenting on this thread, but here's my take.
> 
> I think what we have here is someone who's not used to dealing with forums, and doesn't realize how many scammers we get to see. Looking at the blog and the Hagg Press website, possibly Kern just isn't used to dealing with the internet. In either case, I don't think this is a scam, just someone who doesn't really know what he's doing.
> 
> ...


+1. :yes:








 





 
.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I agree totally*



amckenzie4 said:


> .....
> 
> 
> Furthermore, the horror stories are everywhere on the web. From the thread here, to videos on YouTube, to similar threads on other sites, to the pages of warnings that come with every woodworking book and the time spent in a lot of how-to videos, people are warned. The problem is, people today have been conditioned to ignore those warnings. "Yeah, yeah, do not use table saw while intoxicated, on medication, standing up, sitting down, in the shower, standing in a waist deep pile of lemurs, tired, or at any other time. Do I really need to read these warnings?" "Do not use toaster in shower or while under water? Was I really going to do that anyway? Wouldn't that just make my toast soggy?" "Ooohh... here's a good one! 'Do not lick mixer blades while mixer is running.' Did someone actually try that?" The toaster and mixer ones are warnings I've actually seen, by the way.
> ...


Couldn't have said it better, ...well almost. I did say it differently.
But that's the beauty of the "free market system", if you have an idea and want to finance it, go for it. This idea kinda goes around the financing part in a way, as the contributions are gratis. :icon_cool:


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Hwood said:


> Once in awhile I help a buddy out with a job of his, extra set of hands basically, not skill. last month we were in a place that pressure treats wood. As I was waiting for a guy employed there to finish up putting staples into the end of each board on a pallet so he could then move the fork lift and I could drive out, I just couldnt hold it back anymore and had to tell him how I felt about those staples. I know it was not his choice to do that just part of his job... but it slipped. That has nothing to do with a story asked for but staples came up a couple of times.......


Dear Hwood, 
 In my woodworking career, I’ve dulled a few blades cutting into unwanted staples, but I was certainly never hurt. Now that I’ve read a few stories in my small sampling, there must have been thousands hurt by staples in the past. Wouldn’t you think that in the year 2014, lumber mills could come up with a solution that doesn’t injure customers? How about plastic staples? Why not ink jet the ends of boards with data? How about a super aggressive adhesive on a sticker? When will the “powers that be” realize that metal staples and saw blades are incompatible, or do they even care? Thank you for grilling the staple guy.
Kern Hagg


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## poor man DYI'er (Apr 30, 2014)

I clap to your efforts to help other people to learn from people who already made the mistakes. I think that you may have overlooked a little thing about paying for short stories from people and whether they would be truthful. I think the bigger motivator to lie would be the 15 minutes of fame so to speak. but if it became mandatory reading then the fame could last a long time. To many people that chance at fame would be a major motivator to lie. just look at all the "fail" youtubes of people doing dumb stuff.

What you could do is pay small fee for the short story on confirmation the story is true like picture of their missing fingers etc. though the fingers would not be in the final book of course. just verification of authenticity.

Your verifying of stories you paid for is the work for which you get paid to do when selling said books.

You might have better luck doing an e-book and take a very small cut of the proceedings to cover the cost of making the book with slight profit for your labor put it. I would object if the book was say 34-120$ 

Isn't the whole purpose to educate people so they can keep all their body parts working properly?

I do not like big profit of others misery. I am in that boat of being exploited while I am in misery. I can tell you now you make enemies for life that way.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

*Woodworking Accidents-Short Stories*

Hello to All,
 Sorry for the confusion - Sue is my assistant, and also our company’s receptionist. She is much more experienced at navigating the Internet than am I. I had laser surgery on both eyes in 2001 for diabetic retinopathy, so I’ve not been able to read a computer screen since then. I write and Sue keyboards. I proofread your stories with 50x magnification from a video camera on my desk. I know. You’re wondering, “What the heck are you doing running a table saw?” Actually, my accident was due to my lack of proper training, not bad eyesight. I’m legally blind but not totally blind. There’s a big difference. I don’t walk into walls, but I can’t drive anymore. I see roughly 50% of what you see. I like Al Pacino’s line in Scent of a Woman, “I cannot see…but I have seen.” I feel sorry for folks who have never seen. I have. And don’t feel sorry for me. I have Sue.
 So that’s why you’ll see Sue’s name from time-to-time. She downloads your posts, emails, etc., and I read them all thanks to my camera. Just a bunch of FYI.
Kern Hagg
P.S. Sue has access to my personal email ID. I can’t use it at all, except through her. It’s only a problem for me when I want to send lewd and lascivious jokes by email.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Dear rrbrown,
 As you guys can probably tell, I’m new at forums…but I’m learning. Your offer to put your mug on the book’s front cover was untenable because the face-cover art is already done. See our blog at horrorsfromthehomeworkshop.com. Please respond you stories to [email protected]. It’s not another one about a splinter, is it? Thanks, rrbown. (I really wish I knew people names.)
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

DaveTTC said:


> Hi Kern / Sue,
> 
> Given the below I now dont know who I am talking to. I have yet to start this thread from the begining. Where I picked it up all that was being spoken about was table saw accidents.
> 
> ...


Dear Dave,
 When I say “workshop” accidents (or close calls), I’m talking about any tool, powered or not, used in a home workshop (i.e. basements, garages, backyard sheds). For the purposes of this book, I do not want to include yard accidents like chain saw, tractor, lawn mower, rototiller accidents, etc.
 I am including stories sent by many contractors if the accidents happen using tools that are commonly found in our workshops like circular saws, nail guns, hand tools, etc. I hope this helps. 
Kern Hagg


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## Switch & Lever (Apr 9, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> Helping folks avoid injury is always a good thing, profiting from it ...I donno? :blink:


Isn't that what makers of safety equipment does though?


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Kern Hagg said:


> Dear Dave, When I say “workshop” accidents (or close calls), I’m talking about any tool, powered or not, used in a home workshop (i.e. basements, garages, backyard sheds). For the purposes of this book, I do not want to include yard accidents like chain saw, tractor, lawn mower, rototiller accidents, etc. I am including stories sent by many contractors if the accidents happen using tools that are commonly found in our workshops like circular saws, nail guns, hand tools, etc. I hope this helps. Kern Hagg


Had a close one many years ago with a hand held circular saw ... could have gone through the top of my leg - potentiall could have bled to death. Luckily missed me due to quick reactions and strong arms but never ever made that mistake again.

Also have an eyewitness after I warned a mate about using a 9" angle grinder without a guard. Seconds later he cut a slot 1/8" or more straight thru one of his arm bones. The gap had to be filled, after the bones were stretched a part and pinned while it healed. He was lucky (I drove him to hospital and carried his work load for the next 3 months)

If they are of interest I will try and get around to emailing each to you. I have some hammer and chisel accidents too. All my accidents have been close calls, though I did got a finger in half done the length in a metal workshop doing some volunteer work once.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

poor man DYI'er said:


> I clap to your efforts to help other people to learn from people who already made the mistakes. I think that you may have overlooked a little thing about paying for short stories from people and whether they would be truthful. I think the bigger motivator to lie would be the 15 minutes of fame so to speak. but if it became mandatory reading then the fame could last a long time. To many people that chance at fame would be a major motivator to lie. just look at all the "fail" youtubes of people doing dumb stuff.
> 
> What you could do is pay small fee for the short story on confirmation the story is true like picture of their missing fingers etc. though the fingers would not be in the final book of course. just verification of authenticity.
> 
> ...


Dear Poor Man DYI’er,
 If you’ve been reading my posts (and posts about me) for the past few weeks, you’ll see that I’ve addressed the money/profit thing from every angle I can. I can tell you I’m not here for the money, but why should you believe me? You know very little about me.
 I wrote a book in 2010 entitled, The Dos and Don’ts at a Real Job. It’s a primer for young people coming from high school or college and jumping into first “real jobs.” I’ve sold 5,000 copies in three years, but I’ve not come close to covering typesetting, graphic design and printing costs. I’m truly not in it for that elusive big bag of money.
 As far as your notion of fame is concerned, I’ve not heard from anyone hung-up on that. Many of my story contributors would prefer to be, and will be anonymous. This week, we received about six stories from a man who only wants his first name to appear. Personally, I feel it’s more about shame than fame. Most of our accidents are our faults and it can be embarrassing to relate them to the world. For these reasons, I offer kudos to all who have put their personal vanity behind the larger goal – possibly warning others before they make our same mistakes.
Kern Hagg


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Hey Guys,
 Ok, I’ve learned about comedians, cynics and trolls, but based on the numbers of you emailing me good stories, I’ll promise to work at not being so thin-skinned.
 As Sue and I approach the century mark of stories submitted, I thought I would shortly summarize three areas where I think the collective muscle of all of the members of woodworking forums in North America could make positive strides to reduce the frequency of certain accidents:
1. The “reaching over” accident reports continue to come in. I believe some of these terrible accidents are caused by the fact that the outside circumference of a round saw blade is visually lighter than the rest of the blade when running. I wrote letters to Presidents at three large saw blade manufacturers suggesting that the outside ½” be colored rich black to be more visually prominent. No replies have been received yet.
2. We talked earlier this week about lumber mills driving metal staples into virtually every board they ship. If we’re lucky, staples will just kill the edge of our blades. If we’re unlucky, we’ll have one of those dreaded panic moments including kick-back, board bucking and maybe even a trip to visit an orthopedic surgeon.
3. How many of you have had drill press tables with uneven framing below the table? I have and do. Sometimes clamps with small feet like “C” clamps, are only positionable on a thin, unsteady perch of framing below the table. Why can’t these tables be made to be solid so that we wouldn’t see these clamp failures leading to the launching of wood at or by us in our workshops?
 Do any of you know of other workshop hazards that all of us experience from time-to-time? We should add them to this list. Then, we should present proposals for remedial actions, to companies which are in a position to make simple fixes. We would need signatures and lots of them, but isn’t that the beauty of these forums? Numbers! Could I hear opinions on this idea? (Comedians, cynics and trolls welcomed too!) Thanks to you all.
Kern Hagg


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## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Kern Hagg said:


> 1. The reaching over accident reports continue to come in. I believe some of these terrible accidents are caused by the fact that the outside circumference of a round saw blade is visually lighter than the rest of the blade when running. I wrote letters to Presidents at three large saw blade manufacturers suggesting that the outside ½ be colored rich black to be more visually prominent. No replies have been received yet.


The only problem with this theory is that once you've used the blade for a while and/or had it sharpened, the colour wears off. Some of the Diablo blades are red, and stock Dewalt blades are yellow (on the teeth) but once they've been used the colour wears off. Best way to avoid this type of accident is to not reach over the blade.


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## Kern Hagg (Mar 26, 2014)

Danno said:


> The only problem with this theory is that once you've used the blade for a while and/or had it sharpened, the colour wears off. Some of the Diablo blades are red, and stock Dewalt blades are yellow (on the teeth) but once they've been used the colour wears off. Best way to avoid this type of accident is to not reach over the blade.


Danno,
To permanently color the rim of a blade, how about laser engraving an etched, pebble-embossed color into the metal, not onto it. Just a thought.


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## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Kern Hagg said:


> Danno,
> To permanently color the rim of a blade, how about laser engraving an etched, pebble-embossed color into the metal, not onto it. Just a thought.


I don't really have an answer for that one. You may be on to something, or maybe not. You might try contacting a blade manufacturer to see what they say. All I know is what I was taught: Don't put your fingers close to the sharp spinny things.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*color the blades? seriously?*

The throat plates in most all table saws are RED. Do not put your hands in the RED zone and you will be fine. :yes:


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## mrbc (Apr 9, 2014)

Coloring the outer 1/2" of the blade, or whatever, likely wouldn't do any good for "reach over" injuries. When the blade is spinning at 3000 rpm there is no color. Its just a blur and no way to know exactly where the tips of the teeth really are. 

Ask me how I know.....

Better to take woodnthings advice and just stay away from the red unless you want to see red while you exsanguinate. 

Take care...


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