# Bandmill Question...



## martyweir (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi all,

Great site here. I have a question on bandmills. I'm looking at one for light to medium hoby & farm use, and I am wondering what make, & sizes you guys run, & how quickly it'll cut through hardwoods like oak, maple, cherry, etc. 

I hear alot depends on HP, blade kerf & tooth spacing, etc. I've been spending some time researching building vs. buying. Just not sure where to go:

Home Built Bandsaw Bandmill - Build your own Bandsaw Sawmill - Home

Junkyard wars over there!!! That's awesome... Has anyone here built their own mill?


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## dirtclod (May 7, 2008)

Being that bandsaws are cheap right now, I would look at the used or even new. Building your own takes a lot of time.

Look over the trees you want to harvest and take some quick measurements so you can get a feel for the sizes you want to mill. From experience, I can tell you the best yield vs handlling difficulty logs are in the 14-20" (small end) size range. Buy/build a mill that can handle the size logs you want to mill.

Handling is your biggest issue. I guess you have a farm tractor/loader that can move and load the size logs you will be harvesting?

You also need to come up with a plan for drying that lumber. Where will you store it? If you need help with drying options there's a ton of resources available. At your request, some can be included on a followup post.

Careful that the bug don't bite you too hard. It's all to easy to really enjoy it and spend a lot of money on it. Also be careful of the neighbors wanting you to do so much milling that you don't have time to mill for yourself or work on the farm.:laughing:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Marty,

Welcome to the site. If you are thinking about building your own, just resign to the fact that it always takes longer than you thought, and there are always bumps along the way. Even if you have a lot of fabrications skills, experience,, and equipment. If not, just buy one. 

Where you are in Pa., you have access to large heardwood so you will never have a saw as big as you want. :no:

There are many good mils out there. I don't know that i have ever heard of any single company as being a shoddy mill manufacturer. I'd look to the used mill market. Right now it's a buyers market too with so many hobby guys needing to unload their boats and mills to catch up the mortgage payments. 

In the used market, you can get a lot more mill for the money. The manual mill that Daren has, can't remember the name of it but he swears by it, and I don't put out any better-looking lumber with my $26K mill or whatever they cost new. So the hydraulics and big engine are way cool but if you aren't needing them, a good solid manual mill will make lumber every bit as pretty. 

Look for some used norwoods. I had a LM2000 and it was nice. They are worth the money new but you can pick them up used for much less now. They hold their resale value though if you are willing to sit on it for a bit when comes time to sell it.

Sounds contradictory, but mills are always a buyers AND a sellers market, because mills hold their value, but if tyou look hard enough you find that guy that has to unload the mill like yesterday and you can get one for a song sometimes like that. 

Just general info, but if there will be others come along and give more detailed answers. I am just the General Information Officer this week.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Wasn't contradicting you Clod, I was typing while you posted.


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## Kirk Allen (Nov 7, 2006)

If you can afford it I would go bigger than you think your going to need. Kind of like buidling a shop. Once its done we kick ourselves for not building it bigger. 

In most cases, anything with 15-25 hp is going to do you well as far as speed goes. I have a 25 hp kohler on my Wood Mizer and numerous times I tell myself I need a bigger motor so I can cut faster. Problem with cutting faster is you have to have the manpower to handle the increased production. Since I cut bymyslef most of the time having more HP is useless, other than it looks cool.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I have to agree with Kirk. Get as much as you can afford to spend on one. 

Have to disagree on the HP though. This is an old argument which has been kicked around for years and there really isn't a definitive way to resolve it. I have owned a 23HP gas engine and it was fine. 

I have a 42HP turbo diesel now, and the difference is remarkable. It's about more than volume and maxing the blade speed. On paper it should not make a difference, but when you shut the mill off at the end of the day you know for a fact that larger motor made more lumber, quicker, and easier, blade speed be damned. Also, in the long run all other things being equal, the larger engine is going to last longer.

This is my own experience so YMMV. Point is take Kirks advice and buy as much mill, and engine, as you can afford to allot for the purchase.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

The advice to look into a used mill is good. Like was said there are alot around right now with this economy especially. Here is one place to look, maybe others have other places too Sawmill Exchange 
I know they sell alot of them on ebay.

When I bought my mill (Portable Band Sawmills, T.A. Schmid Portable Band Sawmills!) I really knew nothing about milling and thought I had to have a new one...after milling for a few years I would buy used if I needed another no problem. For sure if it was a little manual, there is just not much that being "used" can hurt.

I am a welder (trade school trained, 20+ years experience some of that time running my own welding shop)...would I build my own mill ? :no: Not unless it was some special purpose monster for making 40" wide boards or something that is not readily available. For what you are looking to do you are money and time WAY ahead IMO by just finding one from any of the major manufacturers. And spend that time learning how to run a mill, the end goal anyway right ? Used (or new mills) are everywhere like was stated and not that expensive in the grand scheme of things. Resale of a mill was brought up. If you want to protect your investment at all building one is not going to do it, "homemade mills" for the most part just don't sell for anything should you decide to do that (like upgrade to a bigger one)

That was my plan when I bought my little 13 HP mill, use it for one job (build a house) and then sell it...I got bit by the wood bug. I was going to go bigger, never got around to it. I get the work done I need to with it and it has paid for itself 100X over. Can I crank out the bft per hour the other guys who have posted in this thread can ? Nope. Like Kirk said though working by myself I can make a pile in a day that is big enough my butt is dragging in the house at night after I sticker it. And like TexasTimbers said my boards are just a good as a guy using a mill that costs 6X as mine (I have less than $5K in mine) There are less expensive options yet for what it sounds like you want to do, more like $3K or just a little over.

Welcome BTW Marty. If you have some in particular you are looking at maybe we can give the the pros and cons, if you need some advice (we like spending other peoples money :laughing


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## Oscar (Jun 7, 2008)

*Bandsaw*

Marty:
I was in your boat last year and I also done alot of research (or so I thought) after spending more than a little bit on a mill, I wished I would have thunk/researched more. I'm now convinced the best possible research is what your doing right now! I think where you need to start is ask yourself, Self how much am I really going to use this mill, do I will I have access to timber, how big of stuff am I likely going to work with, can I/do I have the necessary equip or access to that can aid in the loading/unloading, moving and then loading on or into the saw, do I have storage etc... . If I plan on trying to sell my labor and or product is there a market in my area or would it be prudent to find local sawyers ?? I bought a Timber King 1600 because of the usual and customary considerations and mostly due the fact I'm not physically able to wrestle logs like I used to. I need the hydraulic features it offers and frankly, no-one offers a comparable mill for the money. But in retrospect since I'm not moving my mill around and I have access to the equip to handle th moving etc... of the logs I could have got by with a stationary mill that offered the ability to adapt to my needs. My TK only allows me to cut up to 17' in length which is fine unless you need or want to cut large timbers for building purposes!! Tell you the truth I had seriously considered a Northwood mill that you can find thru Northern Tool. It offered the largest power plant, easy loading and operation, warranty and option to increase length to nearly anything you could ever need at the best possible price! Again because it didn't have assistive hydraulics I was convinced I had to have I passed on it! So I strongly suggest you shop, shop, shop and be honest with yourself about your needs vs. wants and especially about wether you will actually get your moneys worth out of it. A word about buying used, I purused the sites offering used mills and have discovered at least about the Timber King and Wood Mizer mills, prices don't seem to come down that much!! I paid just over $16,000 for my fully outfitted 1600 in March of this year and see 2005 1600's for $12,500-15,000. I have a good freind that has a monster Wood Mizer ($45,000-50,000) and he says the same thing about his mill regarding re-sale value. Warranty equals piece of mind I think when your spending that much money!! When it's all said and done I'm glad I bought what I did when I did, but could have saved myself ton's of cash had I listened to my father (60+ years as a Sawyer commercial) and bought a intro first and then moved up if and when things really warranted. Best of luck and welcome to the a great site!


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## martyweir (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks for all the helpful advice guys! You all make really good points. I do realize that building is going to take time, frustration, and trial & error. I have some solid fabricating skills, but what worries me about a home-made mill is the dependability and safety of the unit. The thing that attracts me to it is that I have more than enought stock sitting in my yard to build 3 mills, so the wheels & engine would be the only expense. 

I definitely have a good wood source now (the farm), but I also work for a utility contractor. You should see the pile of ground hardwood we generated last week from a pipeline we cut through the woods!!! We must have ground up 25 triaxle loads of really nice cherries & oaks. It's heartbreaking to watch all that timber run through a tub mill, but nobody around here wants the wood after they've been cut down & dragged out of the woods by my guys... I'm sure I'd go through alot of blades milling this stuff, but I just use most of it for firewood now! 

I do have equipment to handle the wood - so that's not a problem. I think I'm going to keep my eye open for a good used mill. Thanks for all of your advice!


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

I think I must be a bit loco to enjoy reading about milling so much. No way I could operate one at my age and I live in a house on an estate so no way could use one any way. I think what facinates me is the way you guys can liberate good looking planks etc from a trunk. A bit like Michaelangelo who said that when he carved a block of marble, he 'liberated' the statue he created.

Keep milling and keep posting.
johnep


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

martyweir said:


> I definitely have a good wood source now (the farm), but I also work for a utility contractor. You should see the pile of ground hardwood we generated last week from a pipeline we cut through the woods!!! We must have ground up 25 triaxle loads of really nice cherries & oaks. It's heartbreaking to watch all that timber run through a tub mill, but nobody around here wants the wood after they've been cut down & dragged out of the woods by my guys...



It makes me hurt to read what you wrote....there is no way, if I lived where you are, that I would not own a mill....have you considered that a few weekends cutting cherry logs would potentially pay for a decent bandmill? Hardwoods are not cheap, and don't grow in 20 years.....and there is always a market, even when times are tough. 

I have been thinking about selling my circle mill...I would nearly give it to you for half of everything you mill:thumbsup:


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

joasis said:


> .have you considered that a few weekends cutting cherry logs would potentially pay for a decent bandmill?


I have been self employed for several years. I ran a plumbing/heating/welding shop before I got into sawmilling/woodworking/tool sharpening. Let's just say I have spend my fair share of money on "tools". Thinking back at every tool I have ever bought when it comes to larger purchases, nothing paid for itself faster than my bandmill-not even a close second...then it started paying me.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

And don't forget about craigslist. Sawmills have started showing up on the Dallas one, even. One bandmill was going for $1500 with just a couple of hours on it and 20' of track. I did not call quick enough for that one, for that price it did not matter that it would have to sit in my backyard.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I have two 56" circle mills for sale Jeffery that I would make a good deal on. A REAL good deal. :brows:


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

My Meadows circle mill was paid for the first month I owned it....a bandmill I have was on the first job...making log siding and I kept the cants....if I lived where trees were more readily available, it would be my full time occupation. I am going to sell the Meadows simply to get a different bandmill...more of a solo cutting deal.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

TT, I am not really in the market for a circle mill right now, but I have a nice place to store one for you :whistling2:.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

jeffreythree said:


> TT, I am not really in the market for a circle mill right now, but I have a nice place to store one for you :whistling2:.


 I like that Jeff3, sounds like a good start to negotiation :laughing:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

jeffreythree said:


> TT, I am not really in the market for a circle mill right now, but I have a nice place to store one for you :whistling2:.


Allright let's get this over with so I can work it into my 2009 budget. How much are the monthly storage fees going to cost me? 

And can you make me a special deal since I will be needing you to store two of them? :w00t:


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Daren,
You guys have gotten my curiosity up. What do you do to move the logs around? How much wood do you cut up in say an average month's time? Lastly, do you sticker everything and where or what do you store it in? 
Mike Hawkins


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

firehawkmph said:


> Daren,
> You guys have gotten my curiosity up. What do you do to move the logs around? How much wood do you cut up in say an average month's time? Lastly, do you sticker everything and where or what do you store it in?


I use an old Case skidsteer with pallet forks to move logs. How much I mill in a month depends greatly. All spring/summer and this fall I was milling 5000 bft a month minimum (that was only milling a few days a week since I also run a sharpening shop and do some woodworking etc.) Which is not very much at all for a mill, but like I said I am just part time really, some of the guys here can knock out 5000 bft in a single weekend with their bigger machines ...the month of Dec so far grand total of 500 bft., the winter is usually slow for me because of weather. Either too cold or too wet. I sticker everything I keep. I only have a 40'x40' pole barn here at the house for storage, some times my inventory spills over to another 30'x80' building I share with a buddy a couple blocks away. But my "inventory" is not all I mill. I mill for others, their logs, they just take it away as soon as I mill it. Some wood I saw to sell I don't have to store either, I have customers who buy fresh off the mill and they sticker it and dry it themselves(and some have built kilns off my plans and kiln dry the wood at their place too) If I wanted I could have much more lumber on hand but I have chosen to keep it small and try to move lumber that has dried as I am sawing more for future use/sale.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks for the info Daren. Sounds interesting.
Mike Hawkins:smile:


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## martyweir (Dec 9, 2008)

Well, anybody with a used mill that they are trying to get rid of -email me @ [email protected]. I'm all ears. As of now, I am more interested in a small bandmill. I'm looking for something that I can run by myself, and still put out some decent bf. I don't honestly know much about circle mills, but if it's a deal, maybe we can talk!!! Thanks again for the advice & info!

Marty


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I would, but....circle mills are not what I would call "learner friendly". To get a decent amount of bd/ft production, you will end up looking for a hydraulic bandmill....circle mills can be operated by yourself, but it is way easier with 2 guys, and they are quite simply, dangerous to the inexperienced.


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## Seasoned Carpentry (Jan 6, 2009)

I bought a Norwood a couple years ago and love it. I use all my output in my remodeling and furniture building. It is so nice to cut for myself they way I want it cut, not how it's offered in a lumberyard. And I cut what most might throw away - half rotted logs for the spalted lumber within, crotches for the grain, burls, anything unusual. I also cut for the house I will be building. For me it's strictly part time. I bought the Norwood LM 2000 new because I hate to deal with someone else's problems or their misuse. It simply doesn't cost that much. I also bought a 4x4 tractor with a loader and backhoe to move logs around. On the mill I've been able to handle by hand anything I've felled. Someday I will get a log turner, but while I'm young (58) and strong, a peavy and me do the job. I got the 23 horse and wouldn't go smaller. My advice is to buy new.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Well you are certainly afflicted with the disease allright. :yes:

I'm cut from the same cloth on choosing logs that look funky, gnarly, or just plain weird. The payoff is usually a good one though. 

I had the exact same mill as my first mill. Same engine too. I studied your mill real close when I first opened this thread ~ until I read where you said you'd bought it new. Because I sold my mill to a couple up there in the NE somewhere. I still have pictures of it on powder creek site. 

They were in upstate NY at the time but were moving to another state and VT sounds familiar, so I was looking your mill over real close thinking "Is that my mill?" But even before I read your description I knew it wasn't because the band wheel covers were too well lined up. :laughing:

That's one modification you will be making eventually, installing a heavier-duty latch than what it has now. It's great little mill though. The resale value is high. I couldn't believe how much I got for mine. 

Wrestling those big heavy logs around will get you hurt so fast you won't know what hit you. Especially be keen on not getting your leg between the rails and a log. You will have to take some chances at times no way around it, just be ready to jerk that leg out in a flash! I did get pinned more than once and it is a miracle I never broke a leg, or even an arm because you have to get down and dirty in there sometimes to get what you want. Especially when you shim. 

Good luck, be safe, and post pictures of wood! :thumbsup:


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## Oscar (Jun 7, 2008)

Welcome to the site "Well Seasoned"! I really am glad to see you runnin that Norwood and speaking it's praises. I was s--o close to buyin one of those. Struck me as one of the best pound fer pound doller fer doller mill buys! Though I'm a bit younger than you I don't throw the logs around like I used to, so I felt I needed assistance and got no regrets for opting for it. Wishin you the best and welcomin you again.


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