# Selling some old tools - Clean or leave them alone



## gideon (May 26, 2010)

Hey all,

As some of you know, I go to a lot of auctions and usually pick up some decent older tools. 

Many of them have some surface rust, muck build up, etc. 

I am planning on running a lot of them through ebay in the next few days.

I am considering cleaning them with a steel brush dremmel on the soles of the plans, rules - any bare metal and then cleaning painted/japaned areas with some oil and 0000 steel wool. 

Do you think people prefer these things in as found condition or do they fetch more with a little attention?


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

some photos to see what i'm talking about.


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

Interesting question. Do not go by my answer but use it to help you weigh up what the best option is when other views are put here.

I tend to think used hand tools are a specialsed market. I have a feeling, those that gather like to do their own rehabbing. Providing they are workable and have no broken parts, then somebody may prefer them cleaned, but I am unsure.

Pete


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

This recent thread applies:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/advise-stanley-7-plane-34927/

--------------------------------------------- one day I'll be so good that I won't need this forum any longer... then I'll know I have full onset Dementia! ~tom


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

whats's wrong with using a wire wheel on a dremmel? does it harm the finish?

the thread was ok but there wasn't a whole lot of information to help me figure out how to clean them properly.


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

gideon said:


> whats's wrong with using a wire wheel on a dremmel? does it harm the finish?
> 
> the thread was ok but there wasn't a whole lot of information to help me figure out how to clean them properly.


---

Maybe I am a softie, but in another life i have taken an Angle grinder to a tool to clean it up. But that was then and this is now. Maybe I should ask you a question and then by your answer you may work it out or that maybe you need to rethink the whole stratergy.

My No 1 questions are, How experienced a woodworker are you, How experienced with using hand tools. What got you interested in going back to hand tools. I assume that you have because nearly all of us who are interested in old tools have come to the realization that their are some quality old tools out their just waiting to be loved again.

If it was a monetry thing only, then take the Dremel and the rotary wheel to it because i cannot help you and I would suggest most here can't either.

If they are rusty have a look at the electrolysis threads that have been on here recently. It will not damage your tools and then they can be sprayed with some WD40 for a final clean up.

No self respecting hand tool rehabber would think of using a grinding whire brush. We are trying to take the scratches out, especially on the sides and soles of plains and chisels.

If we see some steel grinding masks we know we have a lot of work infront of us to eliminate them so might possibly pass up the offer and wait for one maybe in more disrepair but not scratched.

Just my thoughts.

Pete


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

STAR said:


> ---
> 
> Maybe I am a softie, but in another life i have taken an Angle grinder to a tool to clean it up. But that was then and this is now. Maybe I should ask you a question and then by your answer you may work it out or that maybe you need to rethink the whole stratergy.
> 
> ...


I have a few planes that I use on things I make when I need them. Other than that, I come across them pretty frequently and will buy them if they are cheap enough with intent to resell. Now that I know what I am looking at.

Now, again, maybe this can be answered, maybe not but I would like to read a real answer, not some mystical Yoda stuff - 

What is the issue with using a wire brush on a dremmel? Does it cause damage? Does it alter the original finish on a tool? Does make any pitting or corrosion worse? What is it that makes it so bad???


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

When I redo an old plane, quite often I will use the wire wheel on a bench grinder to remove the heavy rust. It doesn't hurt the cast iron in any way, unless you get heavy handed on the edges. The wire wheel will leave a brushed finish that can be polished off by lapping on a flat surface.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

gideon said:


> I have a few planes that I use on things I make when I need them. Other than that, I come across them pretty frequently and will buy them if they are cheap enough with intent to resell. Now that I know what I am looking at.
> 
> Now, again, maybe this can be answered, maybe not but I would like to read a real answer, not some mystical Yoda stuff -
> 
> What is the issue with using a wire brush on a dremmel? Does it cause damage? Does it alter the original finish on a tool? Does make any pitting or corrosion worse? What is it that makes it so bad???


He gave you an answer!! It puts ugly scratches in the tool that are hard to remove. 

It's your plane; do what you want. That is the only way you will find out what a plane with a scratched up surface is worth. 

Some of us can only learn through direct experience.


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## joesbucketorust (Dec 13, 2011)

"Serenity now! Serenity now!"


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I picked up a fine 3M abrasive pad wheel from Grainger. Basically a flap wheel with scouring pad instead of sandpaper. It works very well for removing tough build-up. I generally clean all parts with warm soap and water the soak all metal parts in evaporust because it will not damage the japanning. Rinse, dry THOROUGHLY, clean with brass wool, hit stubborn spots with scour wheel, lap sole, rework cap iron, sharpen, apply topcote...

--------------------------------------------- one day I'll be so good that I won't need this forum any longer... then I'll know I have full onset Dementia! ~tom


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

i've already cleaned the ones I intend to use. i used the dremel with the brush. I didn't seem to scratch it up at all. i lapped the bottoms with 180 grit and some wd40. 

the japaning - is that the black enamel?

anyways, I'm going to try your method. what's topcoat?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

gideon said:


> i've already cleaned the ones I intend to use. i used the dremel with the brush. I didn't seem to scratch it up at all. i lapped the bottoms with 180 grit and some wd40.
> 
> the japaning - is that the black enamel?
> 
> anyways, I'm going to try your method. what's topcoat?


Yes the japanning is the painted area. It's a form of enamel painting, sort of the powder coating of it's day.

180 is a great place to start with the sole. Be sure the paper stays flat and work in a figure 8 motion until the last grit for most even lapping. You can place the paper on a piece of plate glass, honed granite, cast iron table saw bed or even clean MDF. I would recommend you work all the way up to 400x wet sand on the sole for a smoother gliding plane and sharpen the blade up to 2000x or 2500x wet sand paper with either mineral spirits or water as a lubricant. 

For wooden planes, 280x is fine enough for lapping the soles.

Topcote it a Bostik product sold at most cabinet and ww supply stores. It's mainly used on cast iron top to protect and lubricate but it has no petroleum products in it and will not leave a residue on your work. I like it for hand tools, only metal parts though.

Good luck!

--------------------------------------------- one day I'll be so good that I won't need this forum any longer... then I'll know I have full onset Dementia! ~tom


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Before n after... Nickel is a bit trickier to clean but same principles.

--------------------------------------------- one day I'll be so good that I won't need this forum any longer... then I'll know I have full onset Dementia! ~tom


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

thanks for the info there! I had lapped a few other planes up to 320 adhered to a piece of mdf. they are great as they are right now. 

I don't think I'm going to bother reconditioning the planes I intend to sell tho. Too time consuming compared to what I'll get for them. And, given the passionate responses, my guess is that I can still get a decent price from somebody who'll fix up what is a nice piece underneath.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Cool, post em in classifieds here!

--------------------------------------------- one day I'll be so good that I won't need this forum any longer... then I'll know I have full onset Dementia! ~tom


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## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

personally I would rather but one that somebody hasn't already tried to clean up, but that is just me, I like to tinker with things, so doing the clean up myself makes me feel better about using the tool


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

joesbucketorust said:


> "Serenity now! Serenity now!"


Yes. serenety. The smoke did come out of my computer. I am pleased someone else answered for me.

I qualified my reply with, this is what I do. It was up to the OP to take on board and weigh up the negatives as well as the positives.

He was lucky i did not reply immediately, It would not have done International relations much good and i would have been banned from here.

In fact i have now put a limited ban on my postings thanks to the ill mannered reply I got. 

Pete


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

STAR said:


> Yes. serenety. The smoke did come out of my computer. I am pleased someone else answered for me.
> 
> I qualified my reply with, this is what I do. It was up to the OP to take on board and weigh up the negatives as well as the positives.
> 
> ...


Please forgive my rash response. I am/was looking for information as to what the dremel/brush would do, what makes it bad, etc. Your post seemed a bit like "well I could tell you but I might not want to waste my time" - that's how it seemed to me. 

Lets just move on.


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

Wrangler said:


> He gave you an answer!! It puts ugly scratches in the tool that are hard to remove.
> 
> It's your plane; do what you want. That is the only way you will find out what a plane with a scratched up surface is worth.
> 
> Some of us can only learn through direct experience.


 
---

Maybe I do not want to move on, just because you say to. maybe, you should re read all my posts.

So. Up yours. 

Good Night, and Good Bye.

Pete


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## RandyL (Jan 24, 2012)

All those tools look to be in good shape and are still usable obviously. I would definetly clean them up, at least a bit anyways. If your talking an old wooden plane for example that someone wants to set on a shelf as a decorative piece, then that's different. On a different note, are you gonna sell them individually or as a lot? May have better luck selling then all as a package.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

RandyL said:


> All those tools look to be in good shape and are still usable obviously. I would definetly clean them up, at least a bit anyways. If your talking an old wooden plane for example that someone wants to set on a shelf as a decorative piece, then that's different. On a different note, are you gonna sell them individually or as a lot? May have better luck selling then all as a package.


I've been cleaning them up a little here and there. going the sand paper route with wd-40 to start. A few I'm going to keep. I really like the little stanely 101's - great for getting glue off.

I'm also keeping the stanley block plane and the draw knives. I will be selling the miller falls and some of the center guides and protractor, the stanley copper level and some others. 

I do have an older stanley $45 transitional plane with a wood bottom. All that needed was a sharpening and it works great.


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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

Ok... Since no one gave him a straight forward answer... I will...

Plane soles and frogs are precision ground (Theoretically) at the factory.... The more precisely flat and true - the better the plane operates....

The wire wheels dig in to the softer cast iron and really take them out of flat... You wouldn't think it would... You can actually completely ruin a plane by wire wheeling it....

Nothing personal against you in particular.... but Wire wheel marks are generally a sign of people who don't know what they are doing.... They are the sign of someone who found something in their Granddad's garage and is bound and determined to ruin it....

To "Collectors" - that rust is "Patina".. Proof of provenance and age... Wire wheeling off that rust reduces the value to collectors - and potentially ruins the old finishes....... 

To "Users" - those wire wheel marks are a dead giveaway that the plane is now WAY off flat/square... and as such - reduce the value of the tool as well... I won't touch a Flea Market plane with a stick that was obviously run across a wheel...

Unfortunately - you loose both ways...

Hope this helps.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

truckjohn said:


> Ok... Since no one gave him a straight forward answer... I will...
> 
> Plane soles and frogs are precision ground (Theoretically) at the factory.... The more precisely flat and true - the better the plane operates....
> 
> ...


This is precisely the information I was looking for. Both for tools I will use myself and for others I plan to resell.

Thank you very much for sharing that.

Now, I had used the wire brush with a dremmel on another plane I am keeping as shelf decoration. Does the wire brush on a dremmel knock a piece out of true as well? When you say "wire wheel" - is that an attachment to a bench grinder?

With the ones I've sold already, I just started with 180 sand paper and WD-40. Compared to what other comparable hand planes sold for - I was right in keeping with those and I take extremely large and detailed photos.


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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

If it's a steel wheel - you can be sure it cuts into the cast iron... Cast iron is generally pretty soft compared to other steels....

Certainly - Dremel wheels are a whole lot smaller than the ones on a big bench grinder - but the caution still applies.... That sucker is going 25-35,000 RPM.... You can cut right through cold rolled steel with those things...

One thing you can do with those wire wheels is to speed up your lapping operations.... You can lap a bit to see where the shiny places are (The high spots) - then lightly wire wheel those areas till they look a bit dull... Then lap again.... You will be surprised how much steel they take off....

Personally, I really like kroil and brass brushes... I also don't worry about Black rust at all... It's hard and stable... Doesn't cause any problems... 

Thanks

John


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

truckjohn said:


> If it's a steel wheel - you can be sure it cuts into the cast iron... Cast iron is generally pretty soft compared to other steels....
> 
> Certainly - Dremel wheels are a whole lot smaller than the ones on a big bench grinder - but the caution still applies.... That sucker is going 25-35,000 RPM.... You can cut right through cold rolled steel with those things...
> 
> ...


Again, thank you very much.


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## EWerner (Oct 14, 2010)

Gideon,

You are a wood worker and with that in mind think about how you would want to purchase a used tool (as is or cleaned up). If you were a tool collector then you may prefer to receive it as is (tallow and all) or if you use tools frequently for your wood working projects you may perfer to receive it cleaned up an ready or almost ready to use.


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## cheese9988 (Jan 4, 2010)

I can help you with the combination square and rules. The planes, I can't help you there.

First off, your going to want to purchase an Arkansas stone. Home depot has these, you can find them on the net also. Your going to want to put some wd40 on the stone and smoothly work the measuring surfaces. The rust is one thing, but if there are any large burrs, that can take some extra time. Always keep the stone parallel to the surface. Clean the surface with alchohol or mineral spirits.

You can do a cheap and dirty vial test. Place the square head on a level surface, flip it 180 ° to the exact same spot. The bubble should return to the same spot.

*never* use a wirewheel, or sandpaper or any other coarse material to those squares. If those are Starrett combination squares, you can still get replacement parts. Blades (rule), heads, vials, etc. Their 490 series have been around for a looong time. Call their mainline in Athol, MA and ask for their parts department. If those are Starrett squares, they are hands down the best on the market. However, they are not worth much used.

For a fee I can fix them up for you and even give them a proper calibration.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

cheese9988 said:


> I can help you with the combination square and rules. The planes, I can't help you there.
> 
> First off, your going to want to purchase an Arkansas stone. Home depot has these, you can find them on the net also. Your going to want to put some wd40 on the stone and smoothly work the measuring surfaces. The rust is one thing, but if there are any large burrs, that can take some extra time. Always keep the stone parallel to the surface. Clean the surface with alchohol or mineral spirits.
> 
> ...


the square is an old stanley which I've cleaned up enough for me to use. the protractor is a union tool co and the center finder is, I believe, a millers falls. 

I checked it out thoroughly and it is still reading perfect.


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## cheese9988 (Jan 4, 2010)

gideon said:


> the square is an old stanley which I've cleaned up enough for me to use. the protractor is a union tool co and the center finder is, I believe, a millers falls.
> 
> I checked it out thoroughly and it is still reading perfect.


My definition of accurate comes from industry, so its better than what most home guys would need. Glad to see you have them cleaned up!


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## cork4:@gmail.com (Feb 13, 2012)

How much are you asking for the Stanley I assume it is a 45 not sore from picture send reply to [email protected] thanks ken householder.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

ken householder said:


> How much are you asking for the Stanley I assume it is a 45 not sore from picture send reply to [email protected] thanks ken householder.


Ken, the only 45 pictured on this thread is mine shown for example. Sorry but it's not for sale.

Welcome to the forum! Stop by the intro section and introduce yourself sometime. I'm looking forward to your future posts... especially being you have an eye for 45s :smile:

~tom "Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence - it's a lack of know-how"


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

ken householder said:


> How much are you asking for the Stanley I assume it is a 45 not sore from picture send reply to [email protected] thanks ken householder.


Hi Ken, I just emailed you.

The Stanleys you see are a No 4 and a 9 1/4. Also, there are two 101's but with a cutter marked as German made. I am absolutely keeping those mini's.


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