# Flesh sensing technology poll.



## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I started this poll hopefully to get some opinions since it was mentioned in another thread. 

I tried to give a variety of choices, hopefully I didn't forget anything.

You can choose more then one and i hope this works.


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Say what you will, accidents do happen but mostly due to negligence. If you make them idot proof then what will we have to do to the rest ot the tools in the shop to protect them. TEACH AND PREACH SAFETY!!!:furious:


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm all for any safety feature that can prevent serious injury. Had Sawstop been available when I bought my Delta Contractors saw, I'd have spent the extra on it. 

I also agree that you should teach and practice safety. Most, but not all, accidents do happen through negligence. Even so, wouldn't you rather have a safety back up in place?


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm not saying that SS tech is a bad idea. Obviously anything that works for safety is worth considering. My fear is something like this becomes an 'excuse' for unsafe operation. "I don't need to worry about that because if something bad happens I have this gizmo to save me." I'm not saying that is the mentality among those here, but it is a fear I have.

From reading accounts here, it seems most accidents happen when someone is either doing something they shouldn't or they stopped paying attention briefly. While the SS tech may protect you in those cases it seems it can lead to complacency and could get someone into trouble if they change tools or use someone else's equipment. 

More important would seem to be getting proper safety instruction. Learn how to use the tools properly AND learn to identify when you need to stop. 

Will this save some fingers? Sure, and that is not a bad thing. It is not a replacement for safe practices. 

As someone with 10 fingers, my views may be skewed. I'm not saying not to buy one if that is what you want. I just don't want to see this become mandatory and a replacement for proper safety.


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## Locodcdude (Oct 24, 2010)

Sawstop is an awesome tool, I must say. We have it in our shop at school, and it has actually gone off a few times. Fortunately not because some idiot stuck his finger in the saw, but because of nails, or any kind of metal inside the wood, or end of the board. My friend actually had a board that beheld a staple embedded in the middle of the piece of wood, My guess, from a posted sign or something, and the tree grew around it. So it's almost forced us to check every board before we cut it. It is a very nice idea, But it is also not kick back proof, which many people forget.


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## Adillo303 (Dec 20, 2010)

At the moment, It is hard to emotionally separate Saw Stop from the lawsuit in my mind.

I feel that it is a good Technology, I am glad it is available and I feel that as it becomes more widely available, the price will come down a lot. With all that said. It should be up to the individual to purchase it or not. If one chooses not to purchase the technology then they should be singularly responsible for the consequences.

At some point we have to stop being out brother's keepers. At some point we have to be an adult and accept responsibility for our own actions.


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

That was very well put Adillo. But that being said where does that leave me (the business owner with employees? Am I infinging on there rights to have a machine do their safety thinking for them? I am in no way attacking you, your words just sparked the fire.:confused1:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

JMC'sLT30 said:


> That was very well put Adillo. But that being said where does that leave me (the business owner with employees? Am I infringing on there rights to have a machine do their safety thinking for them? I am in no way attacking you, your words just sparked the fire.:confused1:


I think you as the business owner have the right to provide a Saw Stop for employees to use because your not infringing on there rights your protecting your business. I don't think adillo was against you doing it as a business owner, but is against the government mandating it. just my take on it, although I could be wrong.

Most people on here seem to be against the Government mandate but not against Insurance requiring it.


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## Adillo303 (Dec 20, 2010)

Oh WOW! I did not look at it from a business owner standpoint. Silly I own a business to (Not woodwork). 

Absolutely, you have to protect your business. That may cause you to make decisions differently. Since mine is a home shop. I dislike having government jammed down my throat.


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## Twoodsr (Feb 7, 2011)

*Saw stop technology*

After reading about the $10 M lawsuit in NY against a saw manufacturer for not having this technology, I am one who would like to see all types of future table saws come equipped with this technology, and yes it seems expensive right now, any companys R&D costs in a product is very high and as time go on, the prices will come down.
My wife and I were talking about the Saw Stop saws at dinner about 20 minutes before I went back out to my shop and shredded my finger on my table saw about a month ago.
Since then, I have being reading up on this technology and have discovered that it is NOT fool proof, you still can get serious hurt by a spinning blade based on the angle of attack and the speed of approach to the blade.
Some will grumble about having to replace a $50.00 +/- blade and the cartridge for about $75.00 +/- every time the system works, but it just might be YOUR body part or that of an employee that you saved, not to mention the insurance costs to your company.
So in short, every one will have to look at this technology from THEIR prospective and determine if it is suitable for them.
Since my tablesaw encounter, I am still a little gun shy around my table saw and I will post a photo of what I have been reduced to as far as my shop tools.:bangin:


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Okay, I must apologize for the miswording. What I really meant was will I be infringing on my employees rights to handicap their safety practices by opting not to do this? If I provide one in my business that they have been working with all day and not practicing proper safety on for the convenience of the machine watching out for them and they go to their home shop and fire their TS up w/o SS and chop off body parts, Then what??:huh: Just asking


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## Twoodsr (Feb 7, 2011)

*The saw stop debate continues*

I may be reading this wrong? How can you be "infringing or handicapping" a employees "rights" by not installing this type of equipment.?
It is paramount that every employee is "PROPERLY' trained on the use and safe operation of all of the companys tools like this and follows the companys safety policies and be aware of the consequences of failing to do so.
A employer cannot control what a employee does after they have punched out for the day AND LEFT their property, even though some THINK THEY CAN...
If Eric employee goes home and knocks back a 12 pack of suds as his daily routine, and decides to fire up his TS and proceeds to whack off some body part(s) in the process, how can an employer control that? They can't baby sit their employees 24/7.
I don"t want to get any deeper into this as it could get off track real easy so I will leave this here as my 2 cts. on the subject.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

JMC'sLT30 said:


> Okay, I must apologize for the miswording. What I really meant was will I be infringing on my employees rights to handicap their safety practices by opting not to do this? If I provide one in my business that they have been working with all day and not practicing proper safety on for the convenience of the machine watching out for them and they go to their home shop and fire their TS up w/o SS and chop off body parts, Then what??:huh: Just asking


Who has said that if you use a Saw Stop that you will become unsafe? I'm sorry but the fact that the safety feature is designed to work every time is not going to give me any false sense of sefety to where I become unsafe. As for as I'm concerned I still have a sharp blade with many teeth that is spinning 5000 rpm and will cut my finger off. I'm glad I have the extra protection but I'm not counting on it alone. It's only there in case something happens and I make a mistake. If that happens I still have to hope that it works as intended, nothing is 100%.

Anyone that replaces common sense and safety with just the Saw Stop technology without regard for safety should not be working for you because their stupid or dangerous.

Let's see I'm a cop and I buy a bullet proof vest, now am I going to put it on and have someone shoot me just because I have it? No, I'm going to still try not to get shot but if I do I hope it works.

I don't know if your question was legit or hypothetical either way in the near future, if you have a business that uses a table saw your insurance will dictate you getting a Saw Stop or equivalent either by cost effectiveness or coverage at all. They are not in the insurance business to loose money.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Twoodsr said:


> I don"t want to get any deeper into this as it could get off track real easy so I will leave this here as my 2 cts. on the subject.



So you been keeping up with recent events I see. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Adillo303 (Dec 20, 2010)

Twoodsr - I don't know about other states, in New York, as an employer, I must carry extra disability insurance to cover off work disabilities.


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## Trackengr (Feb 26, 2011)

I have to chime in on this one.
I have done a lot of railroad safety work. One thing that is clear is that we have to design public access points with the assumption that people are distracted and clueless. They do unsafe things.
The shop is no different. All of the sawstop type of equipment in the world is not going to minimze the best safety device - your mind. Each cut needs to be visualized prior to turning on the tool. I have had numerous times where I have changed by approach based on what I saw when I did this.
I just bought the Unisaw. A couple of reasons went into this. In spite of what the owner of Sawstop said in a magazine, other saws are not unsafe. If the user respects the machine and works safe then well constructed tools are safe. I resented the statement from that person and was surprised that it went unchecked.
When we think of regulating this technology, I prefer not to think of the cost but rather about what is next. Flesh sensing hand tools? The regulations are getting out of hand. It is a wonder how we have survived withdrawal all of these "unsafe" items around.

Shop safety begins when you enter the shop and is a continuous process. We have to have a culture of safety in our shop. With that established all tools in good working order and operated properly can be used very safely. Safety is in the mind of the user. This is true at railroads and in workshops.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

This whole conversation is silly. Cabinet shops today don't have steam powered belts rotating above head and running demonic looking tools with no guards on them today. The reason being, other than being inefficient is tool makers and developers have built much better and safer tools since then. If you were to work in a shop like that, very few still exist, you better own it cause an insurance company won't talk to you. This is just the next advance in tools, its coming whether we have an "internet poll" or not, it just makes sense. Its important because I would guess that one of the most expensive injuries in a shop is amputation, I would also guess that the TS is pretty high on the list when it comes to this incident. People use the term its my shop and body, you know what, take the money to get your hand fixed out of your own pocket. The bottom line is you cut your finger off, we, other insured, are paying for it. 

And for the people who say a smart head is the safest way to operate in a shop, DO YOU DRIVE WITH A SEATBELT ON, or do you drive around thinking with an inflated head that you are smarter than most and the seatbelt is stupid?

This whole conversation is stupid, no offense guys, but stupid, its coming, nothing can be done about it. You can't by a car without a seatbelt anymore, the saw will be the same way.


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## Starkey (Mar 1, 2011)

I would like to know, how it distinguishes between soft woods and your fingers. I know pretty much all woods are harder than flesh. Just curious? Any Ideas


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

It monitors a low current in the blade when flesh or something that conducts electricity absorbs some of the current it triggers.


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