# Waterlox over stained wood - pics or advice?



## morrow95 (Apr 28, 2013)

I am in the process of refinishing an antique dining room set - table and 4 chairs. I am going to be using a dark walnut minwax stain. Yes, I know many don't care for minwax and frankly I've had a lot of trouble in the past with it as well, but on a test piece it turned out fine in this case. I'm not sure if it is the type of wood or the previous type of finish that was on it prior to stripping. I still don't know what type of wood it is, but stripping was VERY easy compared to anything I've done in the past... most of the pieces I simply sanded it off and it was a very thin finish almost paint-like, but it wasn't paint obviously. This piece is also well over 100 years old too.

Now, I've been researching finishing coats. All I have used in the past is a wipe on poly which worked great on one project and not so great on another. I came across a lot of good posts/opinions about waterlox and would like to try it out on this dining room set when everything is said and done. I like the fact that it is wipe on among many other things.

Problem is I don't see a whole lot of people using waterlox over stained pieces... it is always bare wood. Does anyone have some pictures of waterlox over stained wood they can share? Aside from that, any tips I should be aware of when using waterlox over stain other than the normal... multiple coats, light sanding, etc?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Just so you know it's generally a bad idea to sand the finish off wood. A finish soaks into wood and sanding tends to get what is on the surface rather than what has penetrated. Then when you go stain the wood still sealed with the old finish doesn't accept the finish right while other places will accept the stain. On wood you should always start with a paint and varnish remover when refinishing. 

I think minwax stains apply very good. The go on more uniform than a lot of different stains you could use. What I don't like about minwax stains is they are prone to fade over time. 

As long as you allow the stain to dry you can use waterlox over the stain. Waterlox wouldn't be my first choice for a dining room suite. The stuff would be more similar to using a spar varnish on the furniture. I don't think it's up to the abuse a dining room suite would get. Depending on how much you apply it may not provide enough protection. I mean you apply enough to be waterproof and it will be very plastic looking rather than what you would expect from furniture. If it were me I would either use a pre-catalyzed lacquer or a conversion varnish. The conversion varnish is a better finish but more difficult to touch up if need be. Lacquer you can touch up a little spot on a table top where conversion varnish you would have to recoat the entire surface.


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## gmcsmoke (Feb 6, 2011)

from the waterlox site:



> *Stains and Fillers*
> 
> In today’s ever changing world, more and more products are available due to market forces and general reformulation. Therefore, we are not aware of every type of colorization and filling process available.
> STAINS
> ...


this being said, waterlox wouldn't be my first choice either. you're paying for the tung oil/varnish finish of the product; in your situation i would just use waterborne poly or lacquer.


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## morrow95 (Apr 28, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> Just so you know it's generally a bad idea to sand the finish off wood. A finish soaks into wood and sanding tends to get what is on the surface rather than what has penetrated. Then when you go stain the wood still sealed with the old finish doesn't accept the finish right while other places will accept the stain. On wood you should always start with a paint and varnish remover when refinishing.


That's the thing - it is sanding to bare wood with very little effort and there is no trace of finish at all. I'm talking 150 grit and some light strokes, nothing heavy, and the old finish is gone. I stained a test piece and it accepted the stain beautifully compared to some other restoration type projects I have done. There was no problems with penetration or blotching of any kind.



> As long as you allow the stain to dry you can use waterlox over the stain. Waterlox wouldn't be my first choice for a dining room suite. The stuff would be more similar to using a spar varnish on the furniture. I don't think it's up to the abuse a dining room suite would get. Depending on how much you apply it may not provide enough protection. I mean you apply enough to be waterproof and it will be very plastic looking rather than what you would expect from furniture. If it were me I would either use a pre-catalyzed lacquer or a conversion varnish. The conversion varnish is a better finish but more difficult to touch up if need be. Lacquer you can touch up a little spot on a table top where conversion varnish you would have to recoat the entire surface.


I've been reading the exact opposite. Many have said this is not plastic looking at all compared to poly. As for abuse I've been hearing it is very hard and durable, of course, we are talking about 6+ coats as well. The other thing I liked was touchups, if ever needed, were simply a matter of light sanding and applying a new coat - nothing else needed.


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## morrow95 (Apr 28, 2013)

gmcsmoke said:


> from the waterlox site:
> 
> 
> 
> this being said, waterlox wouldn't be my first choice either. you're paying for the tung oil/varnish finish of the product; in your situation i would just use waterborne poly or lacquer.


Yes, I've already looked at their own information. Honestly I just haven't liked the results of the poly in my past projects. I did have a chair (old pool/billiards room chair) where I was very happy with the poly, but there was a ton of effort involved to getting it that way. A lot of coats along with a lot of sanding to get the nice smooth finish I was after. This was a piece that was smooth as could be prior to applying.


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## gmcsmoke (Feb 6, 2011)

short of spraying you're going to have a hard time getting a smooth finish without lots of work especially with waterlox. it takes several coats to build a finish and a day or two to dry in between.


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## morrow95 (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm fine with the multiple coats and time between - no problem at all there. Basically the same process as I used for wipe on poly before, however, the poly never settled well and required sanding pretty much after every coat and not what I would call light. It also gave me the 'plastic' look afterwards too. I managed to take that down a bit with some fine steel wool and it looks okay for that particular project, but not something I want to do or go through with this one.

My main concern with this project is the front legs of the chairs and the table legs have a lot of turning/design to them. I would prefer to use something wipe on that levels out well with minimal sanding needed. Of course, the end 'look' matters to me as well.

I'm surprised so far everyone here seems to be against the waterlox - I didn't do a whole lot of researching, but never found any complaints about it and lots of praises. Of course, those were all bare wood projects as well.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

morrow95 said:


> That's the thing - it is sanding to bare wood with very little effort and there is no trace of finish at all. I'm talking 150 grit and some light strokes, nothing heavy, and the old finish is gone. I stained a test piece and it accepted the stain beautifully compared to some other restoration type projects I have done. There was no problems with penetration or blotching of any kind.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been reading the exact opposite. Many have said this is not plastic looking at all compared to poly. As for abuse I've been hearing it is very hard and durable, of course, we are talking about 6+ coats as well. The other thing I liked was touchups, if ever needed, were simply a matter of light sanding and applying a new coat - nothing else needed.


I'm glad you were able to sand the finish off 100% but the deck is stacked against you to keep stripping a finish that way. 

I don't know what you have been reading or where but there isn't any reason you can't use tung oil over stained wood. A common varnish is usually a mixture of linseed oil, tung oil and paint thinner. A stain is usually a mixture of linseed oil, pigment and paint thinner. Putting it on the wood separately you would just need to allow the linseed oil in the stain to dry well before going with tung oil. The products are not incompatible. Depending on the stain this may only mean allowing it to dry 24 to 48 hours first. If it was Minwax stain overnight drying would be good enough.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

morrow95.....LOL, You asked a question but haven't liked the answers received....nor waterlox's advice....

I use waterlox....sometimes...I like their product and how it works, how it can be retouched BUT it's not for everything or will work over every finish. Steve would be my major go to guy here about finishes even though we use differ finishes.

Let's start .....according to what I've read you sanded the finish off,...NEVER EVER a garauntee it's all removed, just because you don't feel or see it doesn't mean it's all gone!!! IF you want to use the waterlox go by their advice of stripping.....or test it by their advice of chancing a 2' x2' test area. It may fisheye though.

As far as endurance I'd say Waterlox is tough, not a epoxy but tough, varnishes, lacquers, polys ALL have a pro and a con list, BUT as Steve stated there are some finishes that don't stick/bond/play together good with others.

Enjoy and go ahead and use the waterlox, I believe that's the one your sold on....all the cards/advice have been laid on the table, it's your choice.


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## morrow95 (Apr 28, 2013)

Tennessee Tim said:


> morrow95.....LOL, You asked a question but haven't liked the answers received....nor waterlox's advice....
> 
> I use waterlox....sometimes...I like their product and how it works, how it can be retouched BUT it's not for everything or will work over every finish. Steve would be my major go to guy here about finishes even though we use differ finishes.
> 
> ...


Not true at all. I am just trying to get some opinions here as this forum has been helpful in the past. All I said was so far I am getting different opinions on here than many of the others places I have read. I'm not liking or disliking anyone's answer/opinion nor I am set on any route to go. I also read Waterlox's info and it says it is perfectly fine on stain, yet it seems most people use it on bare wood only. Not sure what exactly you were referring to with that particular comment.


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## morrow95 (Apr 28, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> I'm glad you were able to sand the finish off 100% but the deck is stacked against you to keep stripping a finish that way.
> 
> I don't know what you have been reading or where but there isn't any reason you can't use tung oil over stained wood. A common varnish is usually a mixture of linseed oil, tung oil and paint thinner. A stain is usually a mixture of linseed oil, pigment and paint thinner. Putting it on the wood separately you would just need to allow the linseed oil in the stain to dry well before going with tung oil. The products are not incompatible. Depending on the stain this may only mean allowing it to dry 24 to 48 hours first. If it was Minwax stain overnight drying would be good enough.


I was actually referring to the plastic comment you made. Most people seem to feel the Waterlox is not plastic looking at all compared to poly for example. I realize it can be used on stained wood as their info says so.

I guess what I'm looking for is what my original post stated :

Does anyone have some pictures of waterlox over stained wood they can share? Aside from that, any tips I should be aware of when using waterlox over stain other than the normal... multiple coats, light sanding, etc?

Anyone use Waterlox over a stain? What was your experience?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

morrow95 said:


> I was actually referring to the plastic comment you made. Most people seem to feel the Waterlox is not plastic looking at all compared to poly for example. I realize it can be used on stained wood as their info says so.
> 
> I guess what I'm looking for is what my original post stated :
> 
> ...


A lot depends on how many coats you apply. You can make tung oil look every bit as plastic as polyurethane if enough is applied. The tung oil after all is a hardening oil. What is going to be difficult to tell is when to quit. Tung oil is so waterproof it can be used on the hull of a boat but at that level of protections it's very thick and plastic looking. Too little and it will allow water through the finish despite the tung oil. What would help not having a plastic luck is use a satin finish for the last coat or add some flattening agent to the finish. By cutting the sheen a bit it would enable you to put an additional coat on .


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