# Marking Gauge Swap



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

There was some mention of doing a marking gauge swap a while back and I for one would like to do this.

We need to iron out some details first though so I figure we can discuss them now.

A marking gauge is a little more work than a mallet and may involve a higher cost in materials. I plan to use rosewood, pear, steel and brass... meaning $! But they certainly don't HAVE to be expensive.

That said, the mallet swap had a few blips with some not receiving mallets so my initial thoughts are that everyone interested would state so but then we have a recess for x weeks. 

Those who have completed their projects will the email me a picture, proof of life lol, and then someone else figures all the details of mixing up what goes where with out having seen them.

What are y'all thoughts on that and what is a reasonable timeline for you guys?

Also, I'm going to set up a list of guidelines stating the performance expectations prior to getting the going. I'll work on that this coming week-end. 

I'm looking forward to this one!

FOR THOSE JUST JOINING US -

For those not following the thread this is a site wide swap. Everyone interested builds a marking gauge, a picture(s) must be sent to me, at an address I will provide, prior to 5pm on April 22nd.

Again, build a marking gauge, snap a pict and get it to me before April 22nd.

You will be given a name and address of a recipient on the 23rd and be expected to ship your gauge in a timely manner - I suspect most should be able to do so in under a week?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Read the rules and suggestions below. I don't want to reject any entries but review the rules so that I don't have to face that. I'm not planning to judge or scrutinize the gauges but I'm trusting people will read the rules and ask if there are any questions on them. 


**********************
Marking Gauge Design / Performance Criteria

No foundational elements of the marking gauge (beam and fence) may be made of any softwoods or soft hardwoods - ie no Pine, Fir, Cedar/Juniper, Poplar, Balsa or the likes. it was pointed out that some woods in regions are harder - fine but use some common sense and don't send a fellow woodworker a marking gauge that flops around. It should be rock solid.

The beam must be able to be tightened sufficiently to not wiggle, rack or otherwise move during use.

The beam shall be of such length as to allow no more than 5" and no less than 2.5" wide marking - this isn't a panel gauge folks.

The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen.

It may be a single gauge or an adjustable mortise gauge so long as the option exist to use it for a single line.

It may be a "marking gauge" or a "cutting gauge"

It must mark by physically impacting the lumber - no pencils etc. 

It may utilize a wheel, a pin or knife. The striking edge must be of hardness and thickness able to withstand use without frequent dulling. In regards to this, hobby blade are NOT permissible as the tips snap off and the thin blade can wander if not fully supported, also they tend to be dangerous. 

I believe that covers all the rules for the design.


*********
Additional suggestions and food for thought.

Marking wheels can be make from steel washers if they are case hardened after imparting the initial bevel. 

Used up hacksaw blade and disposable planer blades are a good source of steel for blades.

Drill rod can be used as a pin, again harden it. Small broken drill bit work excellent too.

If any of you would like help with hardening and tempering advice, there are several people here able to assist you.

With All marking gauges the bevel should face the fence and be flat on the outside. This help to keep the fence flat to the work surface and prevents wandering. 

I've found cutting style gauges to be the most all around useful to have and personally think they work best with a cambered knife.

An inlay of durable material such as steel, brass or extremely hard wood is a nice touch on areas of wear on the beam and fence.

Have fun, everyone!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

count me in. i am starting to work on one now, either for the swap, or for personal use if the swap falls through.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Am I understanding correctly that the expectation is that participants have the gauge made before they are officially added to the swap and allowed to play?

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Yeah, I am a tad confused also.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

that is how i read it. i'm good with it.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I think Jean is proposing that folks sign up, but they are not given a recipient's name until they send a picture to show that the item has been made. This way if a person is not able to make the item, for whatever reason, a recipient is not left hanging.


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## clpead (Oct 10, 2012)

I think basically, you will sign up to do it, build the gauge and then once the gauges are built a list will be made to ensure everyone that sends a gauge receives a gauge. Right????

I'm in.

Sorry Dave, we were typing at the same time


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

To answer the main question, yes no official entry until gauge is completed. I think that's the best way to keep a repeat of the mallet swap from happening - not that it was a HUGE problem on that one but I think this way everyone is guaranteed to receive one and in a consistent timeline.

does that sound ok? 

Also, no one has commented on the time line. What do y'all feel is a reasonable time to allow people to get theirs built? I'm not in any hurry so I wouldn't care if it were 2 months... Just so long as it's reasonable for us all and everyone feels they can more readily participate.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm not really in any hurry either as I will just use the one I make until it is time to send it off.

That said, if it is TOO long, then I can see how interest might wane.

I think a month is a good compromise.


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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

Sounds interesting. I like the idea of having the items finished before the actual swapping.

An other thing, though. We have two ongoing mallet swaps not yet finished and Sawdustfactory has ideas for another but is waiting for these to finish. Will this be indepenent from that or should they be coordinated?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Longknife said:


> We have two ongoing mallet swaps not yet finished


Exactly.

Doing it this way, if ppl have time, they do it and send a pic showing they are done, so they are in. Some people have time to participate in more than one at a time. Especially for projects like this where it only takes a few hours to complete.

I think that this way makes them independent enough of each other that they can go concurently.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I was unaware that there was another mallet swap gearing up... Is that #3, or still #2? 

Maybe Steve can chime in.

I'd rather not make guys that want to participate in both have to chose one.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> Especially for projects like this where it only takes a few hours to complete.


:laughing: Speak for yourself, Chris! haha I'm currently 30 hrs into a hand plane with another 5 to go. 

I suspect my marking gauge (even though I'm going to have to make 5 of them) will take a bit less time... At least I hope... never made that many in one sitting before.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I was unaware that there was another mallet swap gearing up... Is that #3, or still #2?
> 
> Maybe Steve can chime in.
> 
> I'd rather not make guys that want to participate in both have to chose one.


The mallet swap Part 2 is almost over. DaveTTC has a mallet in the mail. Sent a week ago on Monday, so should arrive within a week.

Robert started a thread about topics for a next swap. Sawdustfactory had not decided, but his latest post in the thread said he was leaning toward a lidded box.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/next-swap-thoughts-ideas-47249/index4/

The participants for a marking gauge swap may be different than a lidded box.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

firemedic said:


> :laughing: Speak for yourself, Chris! haha I'm currently 30 hrs into a hand plane with another 5 to go.
> 
> I suspect my marking gauge (even though I'm going to have to make 5 of them) will take a bit less time... At least I hope... never made that many in one sitting before.


Heh ... I was referring specifically to how long it would take to make a fairly straightforward thing like a marking gauge. I would never pretend that a plane such as the one you are making would be a couple hour task.

Screw the marking gauge swap ... let's do a hand made hand plane swap instead!

(J/K)


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

Dave Paine said:


> The participants for a marking gauge swap may be different than a lidded box.


I agree
I've been making a few lidded boxes but I've never built a marking gauge.

Speaking of which....... can you post a thread on making one?

I'm in with either and /or both

Thanks guys
Tom


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> The participants for a marking gauge swap may be different than a lidded box.


I would think so, as well.

The only suggestion for time so far has been a month. I can life with that, how bout everyone else?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

tcleve4911 said:


> I agree
> I've been making a few lidded boxes but I've never built a marking gauge.
> 
> Speaking of which....... can you post a thread on making one?
> ...


This one is pretty good:

Episode #29: Making a Marking Gauge


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## wood_chucker (Oct 18, 2012)

The last swap was a lot of fun. I think I will try to get in on this one too I love the idea of building it first and everyone sending them at the same time.

I'm gonna have too look some up though don't got any idea where to start.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I wanted to wait until everyone got their mallet from swap 1, and that is being handled. I hadn't really decided on the next project. I think they will be different enough and timed well that folks should be able to do both. Stay tuned, maybe thus weekend I will figure out my next one.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> The participants for a marking gauge swap may be different than a lidded box.


Maybe, but I'm thinking of joining both depending on when they start/timeline of each.

I think a month to 6 weeks may be needed for time to make the gauge. The time frame will likely encompass Easter weekend and others with kids may have plans for Spring Break which usually occurs around Easter.

I'm all in for having a gauge made (or almost done) before officially becoming part of the swap - great idea!

I also like your idea of "performance expectations" it will help guide those of us who've never made one decide on design features.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

I am in. Judging by the video that chris linked to, we should be able to make about a dozen of these things in half an hour LOL. Well, that guy can anyway. I already have some ideas floating around...

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm interested. But, this time of year is a busy time at work. I like the idea of having the gauge finished before entering.


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## clpead (Oct 10, 2012)

A month sounds fine to me


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I lean towards the month to 6 weeks. The fact that Easter is fast approaching was a good point. 

Tentative rules-

Marking Gauge Design / Performance Criteria

No foundational elements of the marking gauge (beam and fence) may be made of any softwoods or soft hardwoods - ie no Pine, Fir, Cedar/Juniper, Poplar, Balsa or the likes.

The beam must be able to be tightened sufficiently to not wiggle, rack or otherwise move during use.

The beam shall be of such length as to allow no more than 5" and no less than 2.5" wide marking - this isn't a panel gauge folks.

The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen.

It may be a single gauge or an adjustable mortise gauge so long as the option exist to use it for a single line.

It may be a "marking gauge" or a "cutting gauge"

It must mark by physically impacting the lumber - no pencils etc. 

It may utilize a wheel, a pin or knife. The striking edge must be of hardness and thickness able to withstand use without frequent dulling. In regards to this, hobby blade are NOT permissible as the tips snap off and the thin blade can wander if not fully supported, also they tend to be dangerous. 

I believe that covers all the rules for the design.


*********
Additional suggestions and food for thought.

Marking wheels can be make from steel washers if they are case hardened after imparting the initial bevel. 

Used up hacksaw blade and disposable planer blades are a good source of steel for blades.

Drill rod can be used as a pin, again harden it. Small broken drill bit work excellent too.

If any of you would like help with hardening and tempering advice, there are several people here able to assist you.

With All marking gauges the bevel should face the fence and be flat on the outside. This help to keep the fence flat to the work surface and prevents wandering. 

I've found cutting style gauges to be the most all around useful to have and personally think they work best with a cambered knife.

An inlay of durable material such as steel, brass or extremely hard wood is a nice touch on areas of wear on the beam and fence.


----------



## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Is "soft" maple or oak (the stuff you can get at a big box store) ok?

I suppose I could try using the american beech from my wood pile again.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> Is "soft" maple or oak (the stuff you can get at a big box store) ok?
> 
> I suppose I could try using the american beech from my wood pile again.


Yes, soft maple should be ok. I don't have much dealing with it though so someone else may know better.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I think I'd like to get in but I'm it sure exactly what the swap is and how it works.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Im in, I just recently built one out of Cherry with a Copper wear plate on the fence, I have to confess tho, I did copy the design from a few different pictures on the web. 

Jean pics of it to come soon!


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## GoIrish (Jan 29, 2012)

Bob Rozaieski from Logan Cabinet Shop has a video podcast called Hand Tools and Techniques. One of his episodes is a marking gauge build.


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## Lanny0134 (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm in. This sounds like a challenging project.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I made a simple one tonight. I can do this!

Can a zinc washer be hardened? Or is zinc not something that works for hardening?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

How will it be decided on who gauge gets swapped with whos gauge?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

John, there are lots of ways that can be worked out. I don't see why that would be a concern though. 

Typically the recipient does not know who is making the item for them; he (or she) finds out who made it when it arrives. At least that is how it worked for the last swap (mallet swap part deux)


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> I made a simple one tonight. I can do this!
> 
> Can a zinc washer be hardened? Or is zinc not something that works for hardening?


Are the washers zinc plated? You can't harden zinc, and it's not very hard to start with. Zinc wont hold an edge.


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

Longknife said:


> Sounds interesting. I like the idea of having the items finished before the actual swapping.
> 
> An other thing, though. We have two ongoing mallet swaps not yet finished and Sawdustfactory has ideas for another but is waiting for these to finish. Will this be indepenent from that or should they be coordinated?


The Mallet swaps are all but wrapped up. I am the only one waiting and I am not at all concerned since my mallet is coming from Australia. I am totally fine with another swap getting under way. 
Don't wait on me


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

clpead said:


> A month sounds fine to me


6 weeks


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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

firemedic said:


> Tentative rules-
> 
> Marking Gauge Design / Performance Criteria
> 
> ...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> I think I'd like to get in but I'm it sure exactly what the swap is and how it works.
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Everyone will build the same "thing" inside a set of parameters then each person will be given a random address of another member involved to mail the gauge to. It's encouraged that members put their own spin on design and personalize them.



Wema826 said:


> Im in, I just recently built one out of Cherry with a Copper wear plate on the fence, I have to confess tho, I did copy the design from a few different pictures on the web.
> 
> Jean pics of it to come soon!


Great, don't post them publicly! It should be a surprise when members receive them.



Wema826 said:


> How will it be decided on who gauge gets swapped with whos gauge?


It's a random assignment by a member who has not seen the finished gauges.



DST said:


> 6 weeks


!!!!!!!
6 weeks it is.
!!!!!!!



Longknife said:


> ...


Very good point, I will amend the way it it written.


REMEMBER, DON'T POST PICS YET! MEMBERS SHOULD BE SURPRISED, pleasantly, BUT WHAT THEY RECEIVE IN THE MAIL.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> Is "soft" maple or oak (the stuff you can get at a big box store) ok?
> 
> I suppose I could try using the american beech from my wood pile again.


FYI, the American beech in your wood pile is likely to be much harder on the Janke scale than any of the soft maple species.


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

firemedic said:


> !!!!!!!
> 6 weeks it is.
> !!!!!!!


What is the target date? April 14th?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

nbo10 said:


> What is the target date? April 14th?


Let's wait till it's all hashed out to set the date.

Is everyone ok with the rules / specs? 

Have we addressed all the aspects of it yet? This is the first time trying to organize something like that. 

Is anyone willing to handle addresses or handle pictures and approvals and I'll do the addresses?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Is everyone ok with the rules / specs?
> 
> Have we addressed all the aspects of it yet? This is the first time trying to organize something like that.
> 
> Is anyone willing to handle addresses or handle pictures and approvals and I'll do the addresses?


Can the beam be all metal, or must it be primarily wood?

You may want to clarify if participant pool is determined at the beginning, presuming they later submit an actual gauge, or can a participant make a gauge and submit picture at the time of recipient assignment.

Just thinking that you should decide if folks can jump in after the initial start date, whenever that will be.

It is possible once the thread gets going some late comers may want to participate.


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Let's wait till it's all hashed out to set the date.
> 
> Is everyone ok with the rules / specs?
> 
> ...


I could help with the pictures and approvals.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

This sounds like a lot of fun. Rules seem fine to me. I'm in.

Al B Thayer

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Sounds fun jean. 
I may join in, but I've been working out of town for the past month so not sure if I could pull this off. Still trying to find time to finish the wife's jewelry box. Lol


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Let's wait till it's all hashed out to set the date.
> 
> Is everyone ok with the rules / specs?
> 
> ...


I can help out if you need. Just let me know what I can do.

Oops I see you have an offer already


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## nmacdonald (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm in


6 weeks sounds good


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> Can the beam be all metal, or must it be primarily wood?
> 
> You may want to clarify if participant pool is determined at the beginning, presuming they later submit an actual gauge, or can a participant make a gauge and submit picture at the time of recipient assignment.
> 
> ...


I'm fine with all metal. 

I don't have a problem with people jumping in down to the wire given they provide a picture of the goods. Why not? If the marking gauge is done and addresses have not yet been assigned...

I hope we don't end up in a pickle with an odd number, so we'll have to moderate the entries to twos as the end approaches. If we still end up with an odd number I guess I will just remove myself from the receiving list.


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I'm fine with all metal.
> 
> I don't have a problem with people jumping in down to the wire given they provide a picture of the goods. Why not? If the marking gauge is done and addresses have not yet been assigned...
> 
> I hope we don't end up in a pickle with an odd number, so we'll have to moderate the entries to twos as the end approaches. If we still end up with an odd number I guess I will just remove myself from the receiving list.


Odd numbers are not a problem. Just say you have three. 
1 gives to 2
2 gives to 3
3 gives to 1

Unless you want a pure swap. That is how they did it for mallet swap part 1. I beleive.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

nbo10 said:


> I could help with the pictures and approvals.





DST said:


> I can help out if you need. Just let me know what I can do.
> 
> Oops I see you have an offer already


I wrote without really giving it any thought. I think I want to keep the pictures under wraps, so I do still I need some help mixing up names /addresses at the end :smile:

I appreciate the offers.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

mengtian said:


> Odd numbers are not a problem. Just say you have three.
> 1 gives to 2
> 2 gives to 3
> 3 gives to 1
> ...


I was also initially thinking that a swap needed even number of participants, but this is not the case.

The participants are not being paired up.

Think of it more like taking a list and shuffling the list. The number odd or even does not matter.


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> I was also initially thinking that a swap needed even number of participants, but this is not the case.
> 
> The participants are not being paired up.
> 
> Think of it more like taking a list and shuffling the list. The number odd or even does not matter.


If you want, the majority can still "swap". Just say there are 23 people. Pair up 10 and the other three will exchange like the example.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

mengtian said:


> If you want, the majority can still "swap". Just say there are 23 people. Pair up 10 and the other three will exchange like the example.


It can be done this way, but I liked the mallet swaps where only the organizer knew who was getting a mallet from whom.

If people are paired, then they will know who is making an item for them. Takes away some of the surprise.


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> It can be done this way, but I liked the mallet swaps where only the organizer knew who was getting a mallet from whom.
> 
> If people are paired, then they will know who is making an item for them. Takes away some of the surprise.


I agree. I think it should be a mystery. But...what I was trying to say :yes: is that since all of the marking gages will be made first, it is anonomous until Firemedic assigns who is sending to who.. If folks were paired up, they would not know who made the gage until they recieved the gage from the other person.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Sorry I was away all day yesterday! I was on the road most of it. I did get the opportunity to inspect some old artifacts from a plantation site excavation. It looks as though I will be working with them in a capacity similar to what I do with LSU.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

You guys are geniuses, :laughing: that had never occurred to me. 

Sounds like some one else should definitely handle the list? :thumbsup:


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

firemedic said:


> You guys are geniuses, :laughing: that had never occurred to me.
> 
> Sounds like some one else should definitely handle the list? :thumbsup:


Just a math thing:laughing:

The other solution for odd numbers would to send me the extra LOL


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mengtian said:


> Just a math thing:laughing:
> 
> The other solution for odd numbers would to send me the extra LOL


:laughing:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Everyone OK with starting the 6 week ticker this Mon? 

That makes April 22nd the last day for photo entries.

I'm going to plan on that assuming there is no opposition.

Remember!!! If you are on the fence with this one you have 6 weeks to try to squeeze this in before the deadline!


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm loving this idea, but am tentative of my wood working skills. That being said, I think the rules are thorough, and I would like to think I am in as well.

I will try to get my gauge done in time, and send the pic by April 22nd. I fully understand that if I don't get it done by then, that I will be out.

I'm excited, anxious, and timid all at the same time.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> I made a simple one tonight. I can do this!
> 
> Can a zinc washer be hardened? Or is zinc not something that works for hardening?


Chris if you use a zinc plated washer all of the zinc would have to be removed to allow the steel to be case hardened.

For those not familiar, case hardening involves bringing the item to a white hot state then quenching in a lye solution. This ONLY hardens the outer surface of the iron, there will be no penetration of hardening so it is not a long lasting or durable solution. It's ok for a wheel as the wheel does not dull as quickly as a knife. 

Do not use mild steel for a knife! 

If you are using carbon steel the hardening and tempering process will not require lye and is a bit different. It must be hardened with the initial quenching then tempered to prevent it from cracking.

There are many sources of scarp carbon steel as I mentioned below the rules post. One I did not mention is steel bed frames. The more expensive the bed frame the better the spring steel it's made of. I do believe hacksaw blades will be most of y'alls best source.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

Does the wood for the fence and rail have to be the same species? do we need to consider wood movement (expansion/contraction) when making this? I realize it is quite small, but I would hate if the wood swelled up and the gauge was unusable....


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

thegrgyle said:


> Does the wood for the fence and rail have to be the same species? do we need to consider wood movement (expansion/contraction) when making this? I realize it is quite small, but I would hate if the wood swelled up and the gauge was unusable....


The lumber can certainly be mixed. Just be sure it's fully dry and chose a stable species. 

I for one would not be a bit disappointed if I get one from Arizona to here in Louisiana and I had to sand the beam a bit for it to function smoothly - that's almost be be expected.


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

A question on the build is what are you guys using for material to make the knife / scorer ?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

tcleve4911 said:


> A question on the build is what are you guys using for material to make the knife / scorer ?


I'll be using a bit of scrap O1 tool steel from other builds.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

DST has graciously offered to handle the address swaps! Thanks DST!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

i will probably use an old sawzall blade or hacksaw blade.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> i will probably use an old sawzall blade or hacksaw blade.


 
Will both work? I know Tom said a hacksaw blade earlier, but will a sawzall blade work as well? After watching that video that was linked earlier, will we be able to "machine" a hacksaw blade to create the knife? Will it need to be hardened again?

Sorry for all the questions, but I know NOTHING about steel, and what is needed to make it durable and hardened, and what not......


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## Piper (Oct 8, 2012)

Wow, this is great. I am pretty new here and never thought of a swap like this. The mallets were all great and I never thought of the designs and concepts some of you guys used. I have too much at work and will be tied up through May, but I definately Will try to get in on the next build. I M looking forward to seeing your designs And builds. 
I can hardly wait until I retire and have more time to get into the shop.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

thegrgyle said:


> Will both work? I know Tom said a hacksaw blade earlier, but will a sawzall blade work as well? After watching that video that was linked earlier, will we be able to "machine" a hacksaw blade to create the knife? Will it need to be hardened again?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, but I know NOTHING about steel, and what is needed to make it durable and hardened, and what not......


http://www.m4040.com/Survival/DollarSurvivalKnife/Dollar_Survival_Knife.htm


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks Chris, that answers some of my questions as well. Here is a little more info on making your own tools: This is a thread from about a year ago discussing the topic. In that thread, H.A.S. posted a couple of links with more information. One of these, _A Woodworker's Guide to Tool Steel and Heat Treating_ is a good starting point to help understand annealing, hardening and tempering tool steel.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

just look for a "high carbon" blade. those are good for heat treating


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## Tommie Hockett (Aug 26, 2012)

Dadgumit yall, this is awesome and I really want to get in on it but I can't. I have been down with the flu for about a week now. I am so dang far behind on my commissioned hope chest, that I'm going to have to work through the sickness tomorrow and get some stuff done. Just so I can meet my deadline. And on top of all my bugging sawdustfactory I probably won't have the time to get in on his either:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

Thanks for the links on the heat treating and survival knives.
This will be my weakest part of this build.
I have plenty of sawzall blades but not sure how to incorporate them.
Cutting, shaping and tempering steel is not a strong point.
Any more help would be great.
Maybe a new thread? So as not to get lost in this one.


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## Black540i (Jan 4, 2013)

Going to try to get in on this as well. Have a lot going on over the next 6 weeks so I'm not sure I'll make it, but I'm going to try!!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Black540i said:


> Going to try to get in on this as well. Have a lot going on over the next 6 weeks so I'm not sure I'll make it, but I'm going to try!!


Glad to hear it!

And that's the good thing about picture entries. There's no commitment. You get it done or ya don't.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

I thin I'm going to try to get in on this also. But last night I went into my shop and realized how pathetic my hand tooling skills really are. After 3 tries (using walnut with cherry rail), I couldn't make a straight mortise through it. When I do M&Ts, it's not usually very important to get it perfect because the over lap of the tenon piece covers it. But I'm not doing well at making a flipping mortise that allows the rail to slide easily but not wobble. The 1st 2 I did with a mortising attachment on my DP, and the 3rd, which came out the best, was done completely by hand. But still, I suck at this and might feel pretty bad giving this to someone in a swap, when you guys are so much more skilled. So I'll keep doing some as practice and if I can make one well enough, I'll join in. Other wise probably not. I like the french style one from the video, but even more nervous about that angled mortise.

And if anyone has any advise for making a through mortise that is square, straight and has flat insides, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm going to try to do one. and if I don't get it done in time, I'll have built myself one. I hope I can get one in time though.


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

.....so is this gauge swap starting?
Are we supposed to be making the gauges now and posting when we're done?
Deadlines ?
Need some guidance here, please.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

firemedic said:


> Everyone OK with starting the 6 week ticker this Mon?
> 
> That makes April 22nd the last day for photo entries.
> 
> ...


It sounded like 6 weeks was ok with everyone. So yes, we'll say April 22nd. All in favor say I?


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Can I make a suggestion. If it is too hard or too stupid just let me know LOL.

These swaps have a huge interest so far. So there is no confusion on a date can an admin set up a banner on the forum that displays something like:
"Marking Gage Swap Deadline: 22 April

That way folks know they can enter as long as a gage is completed by that date.


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

firemedic said:


> It sounded like 6 weeks was ok with everyone. So yes, we'll say April 22nd. All in favor say I?


I :smile:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mengtian said:


> Can I make a suggestion. If it is too hard or too stupid just let me know LOL.
> 
> These swaps have a huge interest so far. So there is no confusion on a date can an admin set up a banner on the forum that displays something like:
> "Marking Gage Swap Deadline: 22 April
> ...


Sounds good to me!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> It sounded like 6 weeks was ok with everyone. So yes, we'll say April 22nd. All in favor say I?



I :thumbsup:


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

sawdustfactory said:


> I wanted to wait until everyone got their mallet from swap 1, and that is being handled. I hadn't really decided on the next project. I think they will be different enough and timed well that folks should be able to do both. Stay tuned, maybe thus weekend I will figure out my next one.


Yep I want to be in what ever you come up with sawdustfactory If I miss the thread for some reason please PM me. Sometimes my notifications seem not to work 



Firemedic. Count me in here too


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

I +5... count me in..


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

It's settled. Build kicks off tomorrow. 6 weeks it is.

Deadline for entries is April 22!

Release the tools!


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

Hey guys,

I would love to participate in this, this would be my first time ever. So I was wondering how it all works. It sounds like a fun. Are there any rules for the swap, material, styles, or any thing like that. 

Thanks


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## cturner (Jun 15, 2008)

Chris Curl said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Doing it this way, if ppl have time, they do it and send a pic showing they are done, so they are in. Some people have time to participate in more than one at a time. Especially for projects like this where it only takes a few hours to complete.
> 
> I think that this way makes them independent enough of each other that they can go concurently.


How've does a person generate a thread on here?


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

cturner said:


> How've does a person generate a thread on here?


Same way you do a post only go to furrums, select the catagory and then start new thread. Ate you on a PC, android, or iPhone / iPad

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

justin said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I would love to participate in this, this would be my first time ever. So I was wondering how it all works. It sounds like a fun. Are there any rules for the swap, material, styles, or any thing like that.
> 
> Thanks


Firemedic listed performance criteria in post #25. If you go back and read the thread from the beginning, you'll get a good idea on how this swap is going to work. 

Basically, everyone involved will make a marking gauge. To make sure everyone that wants to participate has actually made a gauge, around April 22, everyone will be asked to submit a picture through email (do not post pictures on WWT) to one member who will compile a list of participants. That list will be given to another member who will randomly assign who gives to whom and each participant will be sent a name and address to send the gauge they made. This way, no one knows who made the gauge they will receive until they open their box.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> I thin I'm going to try to get in on this also. But last night I went into my shop and realized how pathetic my hand tooling skills really are. After 3 tries (using walnut with cherry rail), I couldn't make a straight mortise through it. When I do M&Ts, it's not usually very important to get it perfect because the over lap of the tenon piece covers it. But I'm not doing well at making a flipping mortise that allows the rail to slide easily but not wobble. The 1st 2 I did with a mortising attachment on my DP, and the 3rd, which came out the best, was done completely by hand. But still, I suck at this and might feel pretty bad giving this to someone in a swap, when you guys are so much more skilled. So I'll keep doing some as practice and if I can make one well enough, I'll join in. Other wise probably not. I like the french style one from the video, but even more nervous about that angled mortise.
> 
> And if anyone has any advise for making a through mortise that is square, straight and has flat insides, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)


How about round holes instead of square mortices? Those would work too. 

HD sells 3/4" diameter oak that would be good. 

I am leaning towards doing mine like that.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> I thin I'm going to try to get in on this also. But last night I went into my shop and realized how pathetic my hand tooling skills really are. After 3 tries (using walnut with cherry rail), I couldn't make a straight mortise through it. When I do M&Ts, it's not usually very important to get it perfect because the over lap of the tenon piece covers it. But I'm not doing well at making a flipping mortise that allows the rail to slide easily but not wobble. The 1st 2 I did with a mortising attachment on my DP, and the 3rd, which came out the best, was done completely by hand. But still, I suck at this and might feel pretty bad giving this to someone in a swap, when you guys are so much more skilled. So I'll keep doing some as practice and if I can make one well enough, I'll join in. Other wise probably not. I like the french style one from the video, but even more nervous about that angled mortise.
> 
> And if anyone has any advise for making a through mortise that is square, straight and has flat insides, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)


The round dowel idea sounds good, if you still want to go square do a 'glue up' three layers for the block, centre layer has two pieces with a gap to produce a tenon. For the real adventurous they could make a mortise and tenon marking gauge. It has two spurs, one fixed and one sliding.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

tcleve4911 said:


> A question on the build is what are you guys using for material to make the knife / scorer ?


Some marking gauges have little more than a nail that has been sharpened. 

As for the video mentioned could someone repost it, I thought I read all the threads but somehow missed it

On the who sends to who, I like the principal of this set up, on a down, I really liked being able to customise my mallets to the recipients. It will not really be possible this way. It does mean all should receive at a similar time.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Yeah, Dave. I understand that. I do think this is better. Maybe next go around we'll make an extra week after the dead line to add customizations. Let's try it like this for the first one though.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Today is day one of 42, or six weeks, allowed for you to build a marking gauge and enter the swap.

For those not following the thread this is a site wide swap. Everyone interested builds a marking gauge, a picture(s) must be sent to me, at an address I will provide, prior to 5pm on April 22nd.

Again, build a marking gauge, snap a pict and get it to me before April 22nd.

You will be given a name and address of a recipient on the 23rd and be expected to ship your gauge in a timely manner - I suspect most should be able to do so in under a week?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Read the rules and suggestions below. I don't want to reject any entries but review the rules so that I don't have to face that. I'm not planning to judge or scrutinize the gauges but I'm trusting people will read the rules and ask if there are any questions on them. 


**********************
Marking Gauge Design / Performance Criteria

No foundational elements of the marking gauge (beam and fence) may be made of any softwoods or soft hardwoods - ie no Pine, Fir, Cedar/Juniper, Poplar, Balsa or the likes. it was pointed out that some woods in regions are harder - fine but use some common sense and don't send a fellow woodworker a marking gauge that flops around. It should be rock solid.

The beam must be able to be tightened sufficiently to not wiggle, rack or otherwise move during use.

The beam shall be of such length as to allow no more than 5" and no less than 2.5" wide marking - this isn't a panel gauge folks.

The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen.

It may be a single gauge or an adjustable mortise gauge so long as the option exist to use it for a single line.

It may be a "marking gauge" or a "cutting gauge"

It must mark by physically impacting the lumber - no pencils etc. 

It may utilize a wheel, a pin or knife. The striking edge must be of hardness and thickness able to withstand use without frequent dulling. In regards to this, hobby blade are NOT permissible as the tips snap off and the thin blade can wander if not fully supported, also they tend to be dangerous. 

I believe that covers all the rules for the design.


*********
Additional suggestions and food for thought.

Marking wheels can be make from steel washers if they are case hardened after imparting the initial bevel. 

Used up hacksaw blade and disposable planer blades are a good source of steel for blades.

Drill rod can be used as a pin, again harden it. Small broken drill bit work excellent too.

If any of you would like help with hardening and tempering advice, there are several people here able to assist you.

With All marking gauges the bevel should face the fence and be flat on the outside. This help to keep the fence flat to the work surface and prevents wandering. 

I've found cutting style gauges to be the most all around useful to have and personally think they work best with a cambered knife.

An inlay of durable material such as steel, brass or extremely hard wood is a nice touch on areas of wear on the beam and fence.

Have fun, everyone!


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Yeah, Dave. I understand that. I don't think this is better. Maybe next go around we'll make an extra week after the dead line to add customizations. Let's try it like this for the first one though.


I'm in either way, maybe the customisation this time will have to be about me and where I'm from etc.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks Dave & Chris. I'm definitely in on this. I made a really cool one last night. All it needs is a cutter/scribe and finish. Not to give too much away, but I used my router table and plunged a mortise up from the bottom by raising the router into the wood as I moved the wood back and forth between stop-blocks. It's totally sweet. And I'm using much nicer wood (still scrap) than something from Lowes/HD. It's nice enough that I'll be making one for myself too.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I look forward to seeing it Johnny! I'll be providing an email address for entries today.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> As for the video mentioned could someone repost it, I thought I read all the threads but somehow missed it


Post #18 by Chris Curl. French style which was explained in the video to mean a wedge across the beam.

Episode #29: Making a Marking Gauge


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

*Photo Entries*

All photo entries can be sent to 

[email protected]

Remember the deadline to get your pictures in is April 22nd.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Post #18 by Chris Curl. French style which was explained in the video to mean a wedge across the beam.
> 
> Episode #29: Making a Marking Gauge


Thanks Dave. I'll go back and have a look

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

firemedic said:


> All photo entries can be sent to
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Remember the deadline to get your pictures in is April 22nd.


A learning from the mallet swap, I suggest including your forum ID as well as your full name.

*Jean*, do you want name and address with the photo email or separate?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

DaveTTC said:


> Thanks Dave. I'll go back and have a look
> 
> Dave The Turning Cowboy


No need to go back, Chris's post was just the link, I was just acknowledging Chris was the one who initially provided the link.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> A learning from the mallet swap, I suggest including your forum ID as well as your full name.
> 
> Jean, do you want name and address with the photo email or separate?


Yeah, good call! 

*The picture should include, forum screen name, name and mailing address.*

This will prevent duplication of efforts and confusion as I will forward on the names and addresses to DST.

Thanks, David.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Post #18 by Chris Curl. French style which was explained in the video to mean a wedge across the beam.
> 
> Episode #29: Making a Marking Gauge


Thanks Dave, on it now

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> And if anyone has any advise for making a through mortise that is square, straight and has flat insides, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)


Take a look at this video. The fellow has a creative way to make the mortise - a two piece face assembly. One piece has a dado for the beam and the other piece is a rectangle glued on to complete the face.

http://woodtube.ning.com/video/making-a-simple-marking-gauge

I do not think Firemedic would like his use of small utility knife blade.

I would not recommend using a drill press to install a threaded insert. I do these by hand.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

A few questions about cutting wheels.


Does Stainless Steel get harder than generic steel when hardened. in other words, if using a washer as a cutting wheel, is SS better?
Does the wheel need to rotate when scoring a board, or is the idea that you can just loosen the screw and rotate it when one spot gets a bit dull? Getting it to be 100% stable and still rotate is a bit of a challenge
How sharp does it need to be? Sharp enough to score hardwoods or sharp like a chisel that actually cuts wood?
I did a test with a standard (soft steel) flat washer. Sharpened and hardened, but while sharp, it's certainly no chisel. But it does leave a nice line in a piece of wood and probably much easier to score wood with than a steel point.

I'm really having fun with this little project. Most of my woodworking experience has been with big things (beds, tables, etc) and stuff that seems to take forever, but almost always for stuff that is needed, but didn't want to purchase because decent quality is too expensive (not that my products are super high quality, but better quality and better materials than cheap store bought). I love a project that only takes a couple of hours and has a really useful and attractive finished product.


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

how about a carbide cutter like those on the EWT turning tools?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> A few questions about cutting wheels.
> 
> 
> Does Stainless Steel get harder than generic steel when hardened. in other words, if using a washer as a cutting wheel, is SS better?


Too many unknows. Stainless steel comes in many grades, as does what you call generic steel.

Certain grades are harder than others.

It is rare to see any hint of grade in a big box stores selling stainless steel washers.



JohnnyTooBad said:


> A few questions about cutting wheels.
> 
> 
> 
> Does the wheel need to rotate when scoring a board, or is the idea that you can just loosen the screw and rotate it when one spot gets a bit dull? Getting it to be 100% stable and still rotate is a bit of a challenge.


I think the wheel can be fixed. This is not going to dull as fast as if it were used for cutting. As you state, it can be loosened and rotated.



JohnnyTooBad said:


> A few questions about cutting wheels.
> 
> 
> How sharp does it need to be? Sharp enough to score hardwoods or sharp like a chisel that actually cuts wood?


The rules said to make a physical mark on the wood, so if it is scoring the wood, it sounds fine. It is still a cut, just a light cut.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

DST said:


> how about a carbide cutter like those on the EWT turning tools?


I have a circular EWT cutter, I will have to give this a try to see how it performs for this duty.


----------



## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

I was just thinking the same thing with the EWT round cutter...why not?

As far as depth of scoring or cutting.....
Remember that in most cases, not all, you're going to be cleaning up the score line so it disappears.
The deeper you make that score, the more material you have to remove before it goes away.

That move on the drill press was iffy. I was waiting for than rig to spin around and bust a knuckle.
Don't know if I like that knife blade hanging out there for my clumbsy fingers to grap onto.

But a great video.....he must have seen my scrap pile.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

tcleve4911 said:


> That move on the drill press was iffy. I was waiting for than rig to spin around and bust a knuckle.
> Don't know if I like that knife blade hanging out there for my clumbsy fingers to grap onto.
> 
> But a great video.....he must have seen my scrap pile.


I would only use a drill press to hold an insert square to the wood while I rotate the chuck by hand. It is crazy to spin it onto the wood. As you mentioned, too easy for this to become a knuckle buster or a projectile. It is also possible for the insert to be askew.

I also do not like his knife selection. I posted mainly so folks could see one solution to create an accurate clean and square mortise.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> Too many unknows. Stainless steel comes in many grades, as does what you call generic steel.
> 
> Certain grades are harder than others.
> 
> ...



I have to second Dave on the SS. 

If hardening steel [washer] of unknown carbon content remember it should be case hardened. Heating a quenching mild steel or low carbon steel does not harden it. 

I will suggest that you attempt to have the wheel spin, it does perform considerable better if it spins - so long as it does not wobble! It's not in the rules though so I can NOT tell you it has too.


----------



## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the info on hardening, guys.:thumbsup: I decided to scrap the wheel and went with a sharpened and hardened jig saw blade. You can tell right away how much harder and sharper it is than the wheel/washer


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Post #18 by Chris Curl. French style which was explained in the video to mean a wedge across the beam.
> 
> Episode #29: Making a Marking Gauge


Quick question

In this video he heats the steel and quenches in oil to harden. Why can't it be quenched in water and he uses tool steel, does this work with any kind of steel?

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

It won't work for any steel, just high carbon steel or tool steel. I've made a couple of cutters from reciprocating saw blades. The first I just shaped and sharpened - it sharpened easily, but still had a lot of spring in it - more than I liked. A second one, I took through the whole process of annealing it to make it easy to work, hardening it, and tempering it. It took a lot longer to sharpen so it is definitely harder and has much less flex than the first one. I used the info from this link: A Woodworkers Guide to Tool Steel and Heat Treating 

I don't know the answer to your question on quenching in water vs. oil, but I followed the instructions and quenched in oil for the hardening treatment and in water for the tempering.

_EDIT: The following paragraph is incorrect in it's assumptions and should be disregarded_. _ I didn't delete it as others in this thread have referred to it._

On second thought, if I had to guess on the reason for using oil for the hardening quench, I would say it has to do with the speed of cooling. You are heating the steel to a higher temp for hardening and if you quench it in water, the vapor created from the heat will insulate the steel and it won't cool quickly enough. That can happen with oil as well, but it's vapor point is at a much higher temp so the effect is not as drastic.

It reminds me of an experiment the MythBusters did. Dip your hand in water and then quickly dip it in (and out of) a vat of molten lead - no burns! The water vaporizes creating an insulating blanket around your hand. Granted it only insulates for a VERY short period of time, but it does work.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

trc65 said:


> I
> 
> It reminds me of an experiment the MythBusters did. Dip your hand in water and then quickly dip it in (and out of) a vat of molten lead - no burns! The water vaporizes creating an insulating blanket around your hand. Granted it only insulates for a VERY short period of time, but it does work.


Think I'd wanna see that one done a few times before I tried it. 

Thanks for the other info too.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

The first official entry came in! It's a nice looking gauge too.

Congrats to JohnnyTooBad, he's in.

DST, can you PM me the address you want me to send the names/addresses to?


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

trc65 said:


> It reminds me of an experiment the MythBusters did. Dip your hand in water and then quickly dip it in (and out of) a vat of molten lead - no burns! The water vaporizes creating an insulating blanket around your hand. Granted it only insulates for a VERY short period of time, but it does work.


:no: I'll hold your beer :laughing:


----------



## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> :no: I'll hold your beer :laughing:


Kinda like the bar trick where you have a lit cigarette you hold end to end without burning your fingers.
You hold onto a nice cold beer for a minute and get your fingers numb and it allows you to touch the hot ember without burning.

.....sorry .....back to the regularly scheduled program:icon_cool:


----------



## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

There may also be something related to the way oil is carbon rich, so maybe some of the carbon from the oil is transferring to the steel.

The heat breaks the molecular bonds in the steel (or at least loosens them). then dropping it in a high carbon liquid could very will cause it to pick up some carbon.

After all, a diamond is essentially an all carbon matrix, with all the electron shells complete.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> There may also be something related to the way oil is carbon rich, so maybe some of the carbon from the oil is transferring to the steel.
> 
> The heat breaks the molecular bonds in the steel (or at least loosens them). then dropping it in a high carbon liquid could very will cause it to pick up some carbon.
> 
> After all, a diamond is essentially an all carbon matrix, with all the electron shells complete.


Sounds logical, but it is not so simple. It seems folks may have an interest in the details, so I will try and provide more of the technical details.

I only had a few metallurgical classes back in university. We did learn the difference between a solution - where there is chemical bonding and a eutectic, where there is physical mixing, but no chemical bonding.

Steel is a eutectic. The alloying elements are not all chemically bonded together. The type of crystals which form as the molten steel solidifies and the size of the crystals has a major impact on the physical properties of the steel.

The following is from Ron Hock's excellent book on sharpening "The Perfect Edge".

http://www.hocktools.com/perfectedge.htm

"_When steel is heated to above its critical temperature, for high carbon steel this is around 1450 deg C, the crystal structure goes into solution. It doesn't melt - its not liquid - but the crystalline nature of the metal - ferrite, pearlite, and cementite - reorganizes into a new non-magnetic crystal called austenite while the carbon atoms are free to migrate as if in a liquid.

When austenite cools slowly, the crystal structure retuns to pearlite and the carbon atoms will all wander back to the between-the-atoms digs they occupied before the heating. The steel at that point will be annealed - soft, ductile and easily cut or machined. But if it is cooled quickly - quenched - in a liquid bath, austenite becomes yet another crystal called martensite. The martensite crystal is a very hard structure. It is martensite that gives heat-treated tool steels their hardness and wear resistance. The carbon atoms that found new, comfortable places to reside in the austenite, got trapped in the compressed martensite structure when the steel was quenched _"

This is a phase diagram for steel and cast iron in case a picture helps to illustrate the caption from Ron's book.

http://metallurgyfordummies.com/phase-diagram-of-steel/

I think the oil is used for the higher flash point as someone stated earlier. It is also more dense than water so will help to cool the metal faster.


----------



## guglipm63 (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm pretty sure quenching it in an oil bath also adds carbon and makes it harder. I know my friend made a lathe tool for me but we did the oil quench process about 4 or 5 times. It's not as simple as dunking it once and done


----------



## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Dave Paine said:


> I think the oil is used for the higher flash point as someone stated earlier. It is also more dense than water so will help to cool the metal faster.


Actually, tis the udder way round - water is denser than oil - oil will float on water, and IIRC, water will quench faster than oil, provided the object being quenched is not held steady in the water - it has to move to bring cooler water to it as the water absorbs the heat.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Alchymist said:


> Actually, tis the udder way round - water is denser than oil - oil will float on water, and IIRC, water will quench faster than oil, provided the object being quenched is not held steady in the water - it has to move to bring cooler water to it as the water absorbs the heat.


Oops, brain fart. You are correct, water is denser.

Interesting link on use of water vs oil for quenching.

http://www.metalsmith.org/pub/mtlsmith/V21.3/TTTCURVE.htm


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I got pictures of another sweet looking marking gauge today! 

Wema826 is officially in. It's officially a swap now too :laughing: at least two people will be getting gauges : thumbsup::lol:

The count for entires is up to 2!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Alchymist said:


> Actually, tis the udder way round - water is denser than oil - oil will float on water, and IIRC, water will quench faster than oil, provided the object being quenched is not held steady in the water - it has to move to bring cooler water to it as the water absorbs the heat.


That is correct, and I was wrong in my earlier post when I was guessing on why a hardening quench should be in oil vs water. 

There has been incorrect information posted here in regards to heat treatments/hardening and I am as guilty as anyone. 

To anyone wanting to harden some steel for whatever use, I'd urge you to do much reading on the subject from knowledgeable sources (Dave just posted one while I was typing this) and others have been posted in this thread.

I for one will now refrain from offering any more information or advise on a subject I am not well versed in and will leave it to the individual(s) to seek out and interpret whatever information they find.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> I thin I'm going to try to get in on this also. But last night I went into my shop and realized how pathetic my hand tooling skills really are. After 3 tries (using walnut with cherry rail), I couldn't make a straight mortise through it. When I do M&Ts, it's not usually very important to get it perfect because the over lap of the tenon piece covers it. But I'm not doing well at making a flipping mortise that allows the rail to slide easily but not wobble. The 1st 2 I did with a mortising attachment on my DP, and the 3rd, which came out the best, was done completely by hand. But still, I suck at this and might feel pretty bad giving this to someone in a swap, when you guys are so much more skilled. So I'll keep doing some as practice and if I can make one well enough, I'll join in. Other wise probably not. I like the french style one from the video, but even more nervous about that angled mortise.
> 
> And if anyone has any advise for making a through mortise that is square, straight and has flat insides, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)


You can always cut three sides and glue on the third one. Cut your piece oversized remove one side, cut the mortice and glue the piece back on. Or you can use a router and make it oblong with two rounded ends.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> I thin I'm going to try to get in on this also. But last night I went into my shop and realized how pathetic my hand tooling skills really are. After 3 tries (using walnut with cherry rail), I couldn't make a straight mortise through it. When I do M&Ts, it's not usually very important to get it perfect because the over lap of the tenon piece covers it. But I'm not doing well at making a flipping mortise that allows the rail to slide easily but not wobble. The 1st 2 I did with a mortising attachment on my DP, and the 3rd, which came out the best, was done completely by hand. But still, I suck at this and might feel pretty bad giving this to someone in a swap, when you guys are so much more skilled. So I'll keep doing some as practice and if I can make one well enough, I'll join in. Other wise probably not. I like the french style one from the video, but even more nervous about that angled mortise.
> 
> And if anyone has any advise for making a through mortise that is square, straight and has flat insides, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)


Sorry. double post.


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

I can build a small one too. I think the idea is to make the arm to gauge up to 5" only and with a short fence. It should take about 3 hours total time. However, how about an English style instead of a French type, i.e. the wedge on the side instead top? Would that be a problem?

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

vursenbach said:


> However, how about an English style instead of a French type, i.e. the wedge on the side instead top? Would that be a problem?


Post #97 has the details of the rules.

"_The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen._"


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Post #97 has the details of the rules.
> 
> "The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen."


Easy, easy, pudd'n pie. 

I'm in.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm beginning to think I'm the only one going with a thumb screw?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

firemedic said:


> I'm beginning to think I'm the only one going with a thumb screw?


i'll say this much ... i'm not going with a wedge


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> i'll say this much ... i'm not going with a wedge


:smile:

And come to think of it, one of the photo entries I've received was not a wedge too.


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## nmacdonald (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm planning on using a thumb screw too!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

nmacdonald said:


> I'm planning on using a thumb screw too!


Who you planning on using it on? :laughing:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> Who you planning on using it on? :laughing:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I've played around with both wedges and thumbscrews. I haven't decided on a final design yet, I could go either way........


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

I saw a lot of good information on how to make different marking guages. Here is another website that has instructions for all three different types of marking guages. Some of you problably have already seen it. 

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/art/markingGauges/markGauges-01.asp


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

vursenbach said:


> I saw a lot of good information on how to make different marking guages. Here is another website that has instructions for all three different types of marking guages. Some of you problably have already seen it.
> 
> http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/art/markingGauges/markGauges-01.asp


Thanks for posting that link, that's a good show of the big three.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I just finished getting my new bench done. Now to focus on a marking gauge or three.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

I am really excited for this exchange, though not certain yet if I will be able to participate. I made some strong headway on two other projects this weekend and need to keep the momentum going there...but you never know, I may get distracted and end up with a gauge to participate with. :yes:

Anyone have any solutions for the cutter that don't involve hardening the metals? Making the cutter seems to be the time suck that is keeping me from committing. :huh:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I'm beginning to think I'm the only one going with a thumb screw?


well you already seen what i did on mine...... no wedgies here!


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Phaedrus said:


> Anyone have any solutions for the cutter that don't involve hardening the metals? Making the cutter seems to be the time suck that is keeping me from committing. :huh:


go the simple route, get a 3/32 busted drill bit, scrap the spiral. use the shank, grind or file a blade or point.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> go the simple route, get a 3/32 busted drill bit, scrap the spiral. use the shank, grind or file a blade or point.


If you do that I suggest you use a drill or drill press against a belt sander for the initial tapering :smile: works pretty well and quick.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks! You are getting me interested! I was looking at scratch awl tips made to fit into hex headed screwdriver handles last night online...but I am always breaking bits from 5/64" on down. I might be in yet...

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

I just bought an Avanti 6" reciprocating saw blade for wood with nails. It is very stiff already. I think it is a good candidate for a marking gauge blade. After I put the desired edge on it, i will heat it up with my propane torch and submerge it in a jar of motor oil a couple of times. That will have to be good enough.


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

No telling what the gauge looks like but here is some of the mess I made today. I'm 1/2 done with the first gauge with only 30 minutes into the build. It feels good. I'll have the first one done tomorrow. Then I only have two more to go, unless I make even a couple more after that as gifts to family members.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

vursenbach said:


> No telling what the gauge looks like but here is some of the mess I made today. I'm 1/2 done with the first gauge with only 30 minutes into the build. It feels good. I'll have the first one done tomorrow. Then I only have two more to go, unless I make even a couple more after that as gifts to family members.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


look'n good :thumbsup:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> I'm beginning to think I'm the only one going with a thumb screw?


You would be wrong Oby Juan. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

Chris Curl said:


> I just bought an Avanti 6" reciprocating saw blade for wood with nails. It is very stiff already. I think it is a good candidate for a marking gauge blade. After I put the desired edge on it, i will heat it up with my propane torch and submerge it in a jar of motor oil a couple of times. That will have to be good enough.


I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that I was able to harden the blade and it worked like a charm. :thumbsup:

The bad news is that now I cannot drill the hole in the blade that I need to make to be able to put it on the gauge. :furious:



But the bottom line is that the $2.47 avanti sawzall blade is a good candidate for a hardened marking gauge blad.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> I just finished getting my new bench done. Now to focus on a marking gauge or three.


I started to make mine and decided to make two. Next time something like this comes up I'm going to make a pile of them.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Congrats to Chris Curl for getting his gauge done too!


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

I would have had my first one done today but I chose to something special. : ).

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm done. Now, send the photo via email and wait to know who it goes to? I'll have to do that after my trip this weekend. : ) 

One down two more to go.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

vursenbach said:


> I'm done. Now, send the photo via email and wait to know who it goes to? I'll have to do that after my trip this weekend. : )
> 
> One down two more to go.


Yes, email a picture of the gauge along with your forum screen name, name and address to:

[email protected]

That puts you "officially" entered. The gauges won't be mailed till the after the time slot ends. - after April 22nd.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

guglipm63 is in now too! Another very nice gauge!


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

Phaedrus said:


> I am really excited for this exchange, though not certain yet if I will be able to participate. I made some strong headway on two other projects this weekend and need to keep the momentum going there...but you never know, I may get distracted and end up with a gauge to participate with. :yes:
> 
> Anyone have any solutions for the cutter that don't involve hardening the metals? Making the cutter seems to be the time suck that is keeping me from committing. :huh:


I used an old, dull jig saw blade. Got the initial bevel on a belt sander, then sharpened on stones then polished on a wheel for looks. I broke it off just below the hole that was already in it. Even prior to hardening, I couldn't even get a bit through it to widen the hole for the 1st screw I had chosen, so I found a smaller screw. Did the old torch and dunk a couple of times. The whole process was maybe 15-20 minutes. Polishing it took the longest.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I received yet another picture of an excellent gauge today - I really am impressed, particularly the creativeness in some. 

I have a conundrum... We have one more week to go until the half way point and I'm considering maybe posting pictures of a few of them as of next week as inspiration and encouragement for others...

Thoughts?


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I received yet another picture of an excellent gauge today - I really am impressed, particularly the creativeness in some.
> 
> I have a conundrum... We have one more week to go until the half way point and I'm considering maybe posting pictures of a few of them as of next week as inspiration and encouragement for others...
> 
> Thoughts?


But with the idea of the swap, would you also have names attached or not? Was that part of the reason for not sharing our progress, to keep it anonymous?

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'd check with the builders of each individual one and ask if they mind. If not, go ahead and post some anonymously - that way it will still be a surprise for the recipient if it leaks out who is sending to whom. It might be an incentive/kick in the but for those of us who haven't finished one yet. It could also prompt some sitting on the fence about joining to jump in and build one.

Who knows, maybe even those who have submitted an entry might want to make another once they see some of the features being incorporated by others.

Will also keep interest in this thread going - I'm getting impatient waiting to see some pics


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

I totally missed this all together. Please don't make me read all 9 pages. How much time is left and are the rules posted some where other than in the middle of 9 pages ?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

timetestedtools said:


> I totally missed this all together. Please don't make me read all 9 pages. How much time is left and are the rules posted some where other than in the middle of 9 pages ?


It's 11 pages for me! :smile:

Rules-

Marking Gauge Design / Performance Criteria

No foundational elements of the marking gauge (beam and fence) may be made of any softwoods or soft hardwoods - ie no Pine, Fir, Cedar/Juniper, Poplar, Balsa or the likes.

The beam must be able to be tightened sufficiently to not wiggle, rack or otherwise move during use.

The beam shall be of such length as to allow no more than 5" and no less than 2.5" wide marking - this isn't a panel gauge folks.

The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen.

It may be a single gauge or an adjustable mortise gauge so long as the option exist to use it for a single line.

It may be a "marking gauge" or a "cutting gauge"

It must mark by physically impacting the lumber - no pencils etc. 

It may utilize a wheel, a pin or knife. The striking edge must be of hardness and thickness able to withstand use without frequent dulling. In regards to this, hobby blade are NOT permissible as the tips snap off and the thin blade can wander if not fully supported, also they tend to be dangerous. 

I believe that covers all the rules for the design.


*********
Additional suggestions and food for thought.

Marking wheels can be make from steel washers if they are case hardened after imparting the initial bevel. 

Used up hacksaw blade and disposable planer blades are a good source of steel for blades.

Drill rod can be used as a pin, again harden it. Small broken drill bit work excellent too.

If any of you would like help with hardening and tempering advice, there are several people here able to assist you.

With All marking gauges the bevel should face the fence and be flat on the outside. This help to keep the fence flat to the work surface and prevents wandering. 

I've found cutting style gauges to be the most all around useful to have and personally think they work best with a cambered knife.

An inlay of durable material such as steel, brass or extremely hard wood is a nice touch on areas of wear on the beam and fence.

-----------

The builder must take a picture of the completed gauge and submit it no later than April 22nd. Submissions are sent to 

[email protected] 

and should include WWT user name, name and address along with the picture(s) of the gauge.

The entries must be in by April 22nd. On April 23, or there abouts, all those entered will be sent a name and address of who they are sending to and will be expected to ship their gauge in a timely manor.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

vursenbach said:


> But with the idea of the swap, would you also have names attached or not? Was that part of the reason for not sharing our progress, to keep it anonymous?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum





trc65 said:


> I'd check with the builders of each individual one and ask if they mind. If not, go ahead and post some anonymously - that way it will still be a surprise for the recipient if it leaks out who is sending to whom. It might be an incentive/kick in the but for those of us who haven't finished one yet. It could also prompt some sitting on the fence about joining to jump in and build one.
> 
> Who knows, maybe even those who have submitted an entry might want to make another once they see some of the features being incorporated by others.
> 
> Will also keep interest in this thread going - I'm getting impatient waiting to see some pics


Yes, they would certainly be anonymous pictures. In hopes that it inspires others who may be struggling with design ideas. Obviously, copying someone exactly is flattering but certainly try to put your own spin or flair on it too.

Also, in the event that you decide to improve or build a new one after already entering, no worries. Just send me another picture and let me know what's up.

Jean


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Jean
What's the count so far on entries?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Only 6 so far, not including me but there is a lot of time left!


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

count me in


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Whad'ya call me?


Get me a picture to make it official. Very pleased to have you on board!


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

I vote for waiting with photos. If anything is posted, maybe extremely close up shots of very specific details without showing the whole tool. It is more of a tease that way.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Phaedrus said:


> I vote for waiting with photos. If anything is posted, maybe extremely close up shots of very specific details without showing the whole tool. It is more of a tease that way.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


Sorry, I let this thread slip a bit. 

OK, I won't post any pictures then. I could see both sides of the coin that's why I wanted y'all input. 

Thanks!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

timetestedtools said:


> count me in


Well... That was crazy fast! I had pictures of Don's (timetestedtools) gauge two days ago!

You must be retired :laughing:

You're in Don, but I still need you mailing address!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Firemedic

Thanks for your effort in this swap. My hope is that those that want to participate will find the time to join in. I'm enjoying the thread and look forward to the "swap".

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

> You must be retired


I only wish I was retired................


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

timetestedtools said:


> I only wish I was retired................


You and me both, brotha... Although spilling a bottle of dye on your bench kind of sounds like an old retired guy :laughing;


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

There is a participant who has built three distinctly different gauges, had sent me pictures of them and has requested to swap three times - I don't have a problem with this.

Has this come up on other swaps before? How was it handled? Any thoughts, objections?

I have not given an answer to him on it yet I need to guidance from the populous.

:huh:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

I would vote it as 3 swaps, if he sends out 3 gauges, he should receive 3 gauges.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Wema826 said:


> I would vote it as 3 swaps, if he sends out 3 gauges, he should receive 3 gauges.



+1 Everyone gets a gauge for each one they send.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> I would vote it as 3 swaps, if he sends out 3 gauges, he should receive 3 gauges.





trc65 said:


> +1 Everyone gets a gauge for each one they send.


Yes yes, this is not the question at hand, the question is can he participate x3? Obviously if he does it would be 3 gauges for 3 gauges.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

For those just tuning in, I'm reposting the rules and details of the swap -


Rules-

Marking Gauge Design / Performance Criteria

No foundational elements of the marking gauge (beam and fence) may be made of any softwoods or soft hardwoods - ie no Pine, Fir, Cedar/Juniper, Poplar, Balsa or the likes.

The beam must be able to be tightened sufficiently to not wiggle, rack or otherwise move during use.

The beam shall be of such length as to allow no more than 5" and no less than 2.5" wide marking - this isn't a panel gauge folks.

The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen.

It may be a single gauge or an adjustable mortise gauge so long as the option exist to use it for a single line.

It may be a "marking gauge" or a "cutting gauge"

It must mark by physically impacting the lumber - no pencils etc. 

It may utilize a wheel, a pin or knife. The striking edge must be of hardness and thickness able to withstand use without frequent dulling. In regards to this, hobby blade are NOT permissible as the tips snap off and the thin blade can wander if not fully supported, also they tend to be dangerous. 

I believe that covers all the rules for the design.


*********
Additional suggestions and food for thought.

Marking wheels can be make from steel washers if they are case hardened after imparting the initial bevel. 

Used up hacksaw blade and disposable planer blades are a good source of steel for blades.

Drill rod can be used as a pin, again harden it. Small broken drill bit work excellent too.

If any of you would like help with hardening and tempering advice, there are several people here able to assist you.

With All marking gauges the bevel should face the fence and be flat on the outside. This help to keep the fence flat to the work surface and prevents wandering. 

I've found cutting style gauges to be the most all around useful to have and personally think they work best with a cambered knife.

An inlay of durable material such as steel, brass or extremely hard wood is a nice touch on areas of wear on the beam and fence.

-----------

The builder must take a picture of the completed gauge and submit it no later than April 22nd. Submissions are sent to 

[email protected]

and should include WWT user name, name and address along with the picture(s) of the gauge.

The entries must be in by April 22nd. On April 23, or there abouts, all those entered will be sent a name and address of who they are sending to and will be expected to ship their gauge in a timely manor.


----------



## mdeiley (Jul 4, 2007)

firemedic you sent me a response but i am a simpleton that does not know how to respond. Please respond in such a manor that i may help

MD


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mdeiley said:


> firemedic you sent me a response but i am a simpleton that does not know how to respond. Please respond in such a manor that i may help
> 
> MD


Hey, buddy. I was asking that you remove the pictures of the gauges you posted above. They look great, the idea is to keep it all anonymous and a mystery until they are received.

I don't know how much difference it makes at this point, but if you are able could you edit your post and remove them?

The gist of it all is posted in my previous post. I'm glad you are participating. 

Jean


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## mdeiley (Jul 4, 2007)

f I only knew how... Sorry just an idiiot playing the game but still need address to send marking gauge to...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mdeiley said:


> f I only knew how... Sorry just an idiiot playing the game but still need address to send marking gauge to...


Read the rules and details I posted above. That should cover it. You have to email a picture of the gauge along with your name and address. You will be given an address to send yours to after April 22nd.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

mdeiley said:


> f I only knew how... Sorry just an idiiot playing the game but still need address to send marking gauge to...


if you scroll down to your post with the pictures, next to the "Quote" button, there should be a button called "Edit". press that. Then remove the pictures you put in there the first time. If you posted them using "Manage Attachments", then you will have to press "Go Advanced" and then "Manage Attachments", at which point you should be able to remove them.


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

They are nice, but you were to send photos through an email to [email protected]. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure any participant would be proud to receive one of these, well except for the lefty if they are right handed. 

Are they all left handed?

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

mdeiley said:


> f I only knew how... Sorry just an idiiot playing the game but still need address to send marking gauge to...


I removed the entire post.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

While we are on the subject. Would it be okay this thread to also discuss and share how we use gauges? Maybe this would also encourage others to join in the swap.

Having said that. Do you guys push it or pull it?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> While we are on the subject. Would it be okay this thread to also discuss and share how we use gauges? Maybe this would also encourage others to join in the swap.
> 
> Having said that. Do you guys push it or pull it?
> 
> ...


I go both but more naturally tend to pull a gauge first. The important thing I find with pin gauges is to have the pin trailing a bit ie scratching as opposed to trying impale the wood.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I saw a graphic on how to push the gauge while looking for ideas for my Swap O Gauge. I never used to give it a thought. For me it was always pulled. Am I missing something? If Frank Klaus pushed it I'd push it all day long. But he pulls it.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> I saw a graphic on how to push the gauge while looking for ideas for my Swap O Gauge. I never used to give it a thought. For me it was always pulled. Am I missing something? If Frank Klaus pushed it I'd push it all day long. But he pulls it.
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Not missing anything, but it's not uncommon to drag it back and forth when marking a line. I do start with a pull stroke though. I think it just one of those things we do naturally because of body mechanics.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Sent my photo in yesterday, so I am officially in. What is the participant count?

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

The count is up to 12 now, Ben. 

Still a couple weeks to get those pictures in!


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Woooohoo! I am excited for the pictures of all of these! It is like the mallet fever all over again!

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Okay, I'm totally interested in doing this but haven't read the whole thread yet. I'll look through and check on deadlines etc. and hopefully see some fine examples of people's work before I totally commit. My wife might get a little cranky if the project takes too long...(as most of mine do).

Doh! no chance I'll be able to make the deadline. How did I miss this thread?!?!?!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> The count is up to 12 now, Ben.
> 
> Still a couple weeks to get those pictures in!


The "dirty dozen". This is a fine showing. Way to go Firemedic.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

Hey guys, I really want to participate in this Marking Gauge swap. It is an awesome idea and would be really cool to have a custom made tool from a fellow woodworker. The only thing that is hanging me up is the blade. how to attach it, what to use? Any suggestions, I was thinking of using a old planner blade. I am much of a metal worker but was going to try. I just know it has to be HHS. I have looked at those big circle cutters.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

justin said:


> Hey guys, I really want to participate in this Marking Gauge swap. It is an awesome idea and would be really cool to have a custom made tool from a fellow woodworker. The only thing that is hanging me up is the blade. how to attach it, what to use? Any suggestions, I was thinking of using a old planner blade. I am much of a metal worker but was going to try. I just know it has to be HHS. I have looked at those big circle cutters.


Justin, you have a lil more time to get it done and we'd love to have you join in.

I assume you found the rules/guidelines/suggestions already?

Attaching the iron isn't complicated so don't over think it. Google image search marking gauges or shop made marking gauges and I'm sure there will be plenty of examples to check out.


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

firemedic said:


> I assume you found the rules/guidelines/suggestions already?
> 
> Attaching the iron isn't complicated so don't over think it. Google image search marking gauges or shop made marking gauges and I'm sure there will be plenty of examples to check out.


Thanks Firemedic, I did find the rules and guidelines. I just want to make sure i am following them. 

what about suggetions on the iron part? for a first time marking gauge builder what are some of the easier things to use for that.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

*Reposting of the rules - Also found on pg 1*

Today is day one of 42, or six weeks, allowed for you to build a marking gauge and enter the swap.

For those not following the thread this is a site wide swap. Everyone interested builds a marking gauge, a picture(s) must be sent to me, at an address I will provide, prior to 5pm on April 22nd.

Again, build a marking gauge, snap a pict and get it to me before April 22nd.

You will be given a name and address of a recipient on the 23rd and be expected to ship your gauge in a timely manner - I suspect most should be able to do so in under a week?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Read the rules and suggestions below. I don't want to reject any entries but review the rules so that I don't have to face that. I'm not planning to judge or scrutinize the gauges but I'm trusting people will read the rules and ask if there are any questions on them. 


**********************
Marking Gauge Design / Performance Criteria

No foundational elements of the marking gauge (beam and fence) may be made of any softwoods or soft hardwoods - ie no Pine, Fir, Cedar/Juniper, Poplar, Balsa or the likes. it was pointed out that some woods in regions are harder - fine but use some common sense and don't send a fellow woodworker a marking gauge that flops around. It should be rock solid.

The beam must be able to be tightened sufficiently to not wiggle, rack or otherwise move during use.

The beam shall be of such length as to allow no more than 5" and no less than 2.5" wide marking - this isn't a panel gauge folks.

The tightening mechanism may be of any nature but must be able to be operated by hand with no other tools. ie, thumb screws, wedges etc. Keep in mind wedges still must be able to be loosened by hand meaning it MUST BE A THROUGH WEDGE allowing it to be pushed back or tapped on the bench to loosen.

It may be a single gauge or an adjustable mortise gauge so long as the option exist to use it for a single line.

It may be a "marking gauge" or a "cutting gauge"

It must mark by physically impacting the lumber - no pencils etc. 

It may utilize a wheel, a pin or knife. The striking edge must be of hardness and thickness able to withstand use without frequent dulling. In regards to this, hobby blade are NOT permissible as the tips snap off and the thin blade can wander if not fully supported, also they tend to be dangerous. 

I believe that covers all the rules for the design.


*********
Additional suggestions and food for thought.

Marking wheels can be make from steel washers if they are case hardened after imparting the initial bevel. 

Used up hacksaw blade and disposable planer blades are a good source of steel for blades.

Drill rod can be used as a pin, again harden it. Small broken drill bit work excellent too.

If any of you would like help with hardening and tempering advice, there are several people here able to assist you.

With All marking gauges the bevel should face the fence and be flat on the outside. This help to keep the fence flat to the work surface and prevents wandering. 

I've found cutting style gauges to be the most all around useful to have and personally think they work best with a cambered knife.

An inlay of durable material such as steel, brass or extremely hard wood is a nice touch on areas of wear on the beam and fence.
**************

Now for some inspirational pictures - these ARE NOT MEMBER SUBMITTED PICTURES!!! I did a google search and grabbed the web address for the first few I saw that seamed to meet the criteria for this swap...








































Have fun, everyone!


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

question about the blade ... i know the rules say no "hobby blades" ... would that also rule out those trapezoid shaped blades that are used in utility knives or box cutters?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> question about the blade ... i know the rules say no "hobby blades" ... would that also rule out those trapezoid shaped blades that are used in utility knives or box cutters?


Yes, these too are more dangerous as well as have edges which can and will snap off. 

That said if the steel of the blade were used in a maner to allow those two issues to be avoided then I'm ok with it...

ie, if it were reshaped and resharpened without fragile obtuse angles.

Fellas, be carefull.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

*An amateur's thoughts on the blade*

An amateur's thoughts on the blade:

I had never made a blade or hardened steel before, but it turned out to be really simple.

I used an old jig saw blade and broke it off just above the teeth. This allowed me to use the existing hole to screw it to the end of the rail. I sharpened it to a slight angle on by bench sander, then polished it down to a nice, sharp shine with 600 grit on the wheel of the sander. I also polished the rest of the blade so that it was shiny instead of the flat black of the original jig saw blade.

Then, I hung it from a piece of heavy wire and hit it with a LP torch. It only took about 5 seconds for it to be glowing through. I kept it glowing for about 20-30 seconds then dunked it in a cup of cold water. Then I polished it up again to shine it (just for looks).

The entire process took about 15-20 minutes for a first-timer trying to think his way through it and not doing anything quickly.

And honestly, the whole marking gauge build is really fast. I ended up making 3 of the 1st design I tried, before deciding I didn't like it. (not including the knife) That was all in one evening. Then I made a sample of another design, then the final product. I did that in one evening also. I liked it so much I ended up making a 2nd one of the final design, also using the same wood. The 2nd time through, the whole build, even though a bit more elaborate, took about an hour. Maybe 2 if you include sanding and polishing down to a 600 grit shine and putting on a coat of finish.

Just take some old pine or poplar scraps and start playing around. It's a lot of fun. I started with a google images search of marking gauges and got more than enough ideas.

One of my hang-ups with the first design is that I thought the rail had to be an exactly perfect fit (hence the 3 tries and change to a different design). It wasn't until my 2nd design that I realized that the mechanism used to hold it in place (thumb screw, wedge, etc) means is doesn't have to bee too perfect, as long as it hold tightly enough to keep the rail from shifting at all while using it.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Hi all, just a reminder - only one week to go for submission of pictures to firemedic. I just sent my entry for the swap and thought I'd post here to give the thread a bump.

In case you didn't copy the email Jean set up for picture submissions (I had to look for it) it is: [email protected]


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

trc65 said:


> Hi all, just a reminder - only one week to go for submission of pictures to firemedic. I just sent my entry for the swap and thought I'd post here to give the thread a bump.
> 
> In case you didn't copy the email Jean set up for picture submissions (I had to look for it) it is: [email protected]


Thanks, Tim. I was planning to do the same. I have to admit I've been bad about staying on top of this thread - my apologies. I've been crazy busy.

I can't wait to open the gates on this one!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I can't wait to open the gates on this one!


I know what you mean. With spring here I've been busy and wasn't sure if I'd finish in time. After a week of rain, I had plenty of time to get it done. 

Now that I've finished, I want the trade to start tomorrow! I don't want to wait a whole week:laughing:


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Where do folks buy brass stock if they are using them for their marking gauges?


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Here's where I got mine: Jantz Supply They are a knife making supply house. They have sheet, bar and round stock in brass. Also have copper, titanium, stainless and nickel. I thought the prices were decent and they shipped within a day of ordering. Lots of brass being sold on ebay as well.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Thanks, Tim. I was planning to do the same. I have to admit I've been bad about staying on top of this thread - my apologies. I've been crazy busy.
> 
> I can't wait to open the gates on this one!


Don't give it a second thought. Your doing a great job.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

mengtian said:


> Where do folks buy brass stock if they are using them for their marking gauges?


You can find brass on line at McMaster Carr. Or go to a hobby shop, if you can find one.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Here's where I got mine: Jantz Supply They are a knife making supply house. They have sheet, bar and round stock in brass. Also have copper, titanium, stainless and nickel. I thought the prices were decent and they shipped within a day of ordering. Lots of brass being sold on ebay as well.


I find 99.9999% of what I buy on EBay. Love it!!!

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Hi all, just a reminder - only one week to go for submission of pictures to firemedic. I just sent my entry for the swap and thought I'd post here to give the thread a bump.
> 
> In case you didn't copy the email Jean set up for picture submissions (I had to look for it) it is: [email protected]


Sent mine in also, anyone know how many so far? Would it be spoiling the surprise if just the used IDs of those submitted were posted?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

No spoilage at all. For a while I was staying on top of things and updating the thread with it.

I'll put a list together this eve.


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

Hello, So I almost have my marking gauge done but I am having trouble find the hardware locally. I wanted to go with a knurled head screw for the top to secure the block in place and the front to secure the blade. I can order online but i know it is not going to get here in time for the cut off date. Firemedic is there anyway I can send the pic in with out all the hardware and still participate. Work has just been crazy busy and have not had a lot of time to concentrate on this. Hopefully I can get the peices in pretty quickly, I could also send you a pic after that just to confirm that i have them. Thank you in advance.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

justin said:


> Hello, So I almost have my marking gauge done but I am having trouble find the hardware locally. I wanted to go with a knurled head screw for the top to secure the block in place and the front to secure the blade. I can order online but i know it is not going to get here in time for the cut off date. Firemedic is there anyway I can send the pic in with out all the hardware and still participate. Work has just been crazy busy and have not had a lot of time to concentrate on this. Hopefully I can get the peices in pretty quickly, I could also send you a pic after that just to confirm that i have them. Thank you in advance.


uhhh... I don't guess that's not a problem if there is not too much delay. Do you have what you need ordered yet? I'd be more interested in knowing the end is imminent than a picture of it so far. Does that make sense?


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

Unfortunately, there was no way i could contriute to this program. But next time if we do this again I suspect I could contribute to a Marking or Stiking knife swap.

I have the HS Steel here and the knowledge to make one that the receipent would be happy with, plus the postage to the States would not be over the top. I would not expect anything back because of the extra postage here to Oz.

Just happy to be a part of the community here.

Pete


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

justin said:


> Hello, So I almost have my marking gauge done but I am having trouble find the hardware locally. I wanted to go with a knurled head screw for the top to secure the block in place and the front to secure the blade. I can order online but i know it is not going to get here in time for the cut off date. Firemedic is there anyway I can send the pic in with out all the hardware and still participate. Work has just been crazy busy and have not had a lot of time to concentrate on this. Hopefully I can get the peices in pretty quickly, I could also send you a pic after that just to confirm that i have them. Thank you in advance.


That was a tough one for me too. I made one by using a knurled nut and fixing it in place with epoxy. Then I epoxied a wood cap on the thread hole. Chuck it in a drill and sand it round and finish.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

Firemedic, Yes I have what i need on order. I should have every thing by the middle of next week. So it is only off by a couple of days. Thank you so much for allowing me to do this.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

justin said:


> Firemedic, Yes I have what i need on order. I should have every thing by the middle of next week. So it is only off by a couple of days. Thank you so much for allowing me to do this.


We've come this far.

I'm going to make an executive decision to extend the deadline to Sat the 27th - a week from today. That gives anyone else trying to get there's done a few extra days. :thumbsup:

I will not be around next week-end as I will be out of town on a lumber / timber framing demonstration. Everyone make sure your entries are in by midnight the 27. I'll get all of the addresses and names to DST on Sun and hope for people to have addresses to mail to on Mon-Tue.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

*Those currently entered -*

Those currently entered - 

Wema826
ChrisCurl
guglipm63
sharbin
AlBThayer
timetestedtools
Longknife
Phaedrus
Alchymist
trc65
vursenbach x3 - (I still need confirmation on 2 of them as they were not complete on the email)

If you have entered but do not see your name here, please contact me.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

We are getting close guys! With all of the projects for the fits in an 18" cube contest, this little swap sorta fell by the wayside. Never fear, the exciting conclusion of the marking gauge swap is nearing!









Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Yep! Three more days!!!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

justin said:


> Firemedic, Yes I have what i need on order. I should have every thing by the middle of next week. So it is only off by a couple of days. Thank you so much for allowing me to do this.


How we doing with the build?


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Phaedrus said:


> We are getting close guys! With all of the projects for the fits in an 18" cube contest, this little swap sorta fell by the wayside. Never fear, the exciting conclusion of the marking gauge swap is nearing!
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


You beat me to it. I was going to take a pic on my gauge too.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

firemedic said:


> How we doing with the build?


Hello, it is going good. I got all the hardware that I needed and am working diligently to finish it up. I should most of it done today, and then tomorrow finish up with the details. It is lookig really nice. Thanks again for the extention. :thumbup:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Glad it worked out.


Everyone currently entered has sent me a picture for verification... So who am I going to send of a picture of mine to? Fair is fair!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Glad it worked out.
> 
> 
> Everyone currently entered has sent me a picture for verification... So who am I going to send of a picture of mine to? Fair is fair!


Un...perhaps we can just take your word for it? :thumbsup:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> Un...perhaps we can just take your word for it? :thumbsup:


lol, that's fine. Don't seem fair having made everyone else show proof of life :laughing:


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> lol, that's fine. Don't seem fair having made everyone else show proof of life :laughing:


you can pm me that pic any time


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Where could I buy a thumb screw.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> Where could I buy a thumb screw.


Lowes, Home Depot, local hardware store, pull from an old sponge floor mop refill, etc.

In the hardware stores, normally in a series of pull out drawers. Pictures on the front show the types of hardware. You could just ask the folks in the store.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

firemedic said:


> Those currently entered -
> 
> Wema826
> ChrisCurl
> ...


If you entered and your name is not above please get with me! It's almost over!!! I can't wait for people to start opening presents!!!!

I've seen all of the gauges and I can honestly say I'm excited to get any one of them. I emailed pictures of the one I made to DST so once he gives the thumbs up I'll br on the list as well.

Remember, the deadline is Midnight tonight!...or at least by the time I check my mail over coffe about 0530 tomorrow CST. Get those entries in!!!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

firemedic said:


> If you entered and your name is not above please get with me! It's almost over!!! I can't wait for people to start opening presents!!!!
> 
> I've seen all of the gauges and I can honestly say I'm excited to get any one of them. I emailed pictures of the one I made to DST so once he gives the thumbs up I'll br on the list as well.
> 
> Remember, the deadline is Midnight tonight!...or at least by the time I check my mail over coffe about 0530 tomorrow CST. Get those entries in!!!


Dang it - did I mess up? I had said Sat the 27 which would mean tomorrow night was the dead-line. Does anyone need that extra day or can we call it early? I'm ready to get a move on!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm good either way, but it may not make much of a difference. Unless DST gets the list together and out to everyone by mid morning, most people won't have time to get to a post office by closing time (mine closes at noon on Saturday).


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

Firemedic, hey I just sent my pic. Wanted to make sure you got it.


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

I finished all three

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Justin got his entry in this morn so I think we can go ahead and call this one. I emailed pictures to DST but haven't heard back - I'll assume I'm entered :yes:

Here is the list of players:

Wema826 
ChrisCurl 
guglipm63 
sharbin 
AlBThayer 
timetestedtools 
Longknife 
Phaedrus 
Alchymist 
trc65 
vursenbach x3
Justin
firemedic

15 by my count! That's great!!!

Thank y'all all for making this a success!


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Jean- sorry I missed this- lots of things going on- also It is really nice to see 2 guys from Washington on this final list. I know Ben(Phaedrus), Justin where in Washington are you? Eager to see all of the pictures..........


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

mike1950 said:


> Jean- sorry I missed this- lots of things going on- also It is really nice to see 2 guys from Washington on this final list. I know Ben(Phaedrus), Justin where in Washington are you? Eager to see all of the pictures..........


I live in Yelm. So where in Washington are you from?


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

I'd actually started mine, was not happy with the fit of the beam. Then so much happened I never got back to it. Y'all be sure to post pics. I'm looking forward to seeing all of them. Maybe I'll still finish mine up sometime soon.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Now the part I've been waiting for pictures.:thumbsup:


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

justin said:


> I live in Yelm. So where in Washington are you from?


Spokane Valley- the dry side.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

rrbrown said:


> Now the part I've been waiting for pictures.:thumbsup:


True dat!... but I've already seen em all, na na na booboo! :laughing:


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Phaedrus said:


> We are getting close guys! With all of the projects for the fits in an 18" cube contest, this little swap sorta fell by the wayside. Never fear, the exciting conclusion of the marking gauge swap is nearing!





firemedic said:


> Dang it - did I mess up? I had said Sat the 27 which would mean tomorrow night was the dead-line. Does anyone need that extra day or can we call it early? I'm ready to get a move on!


Waiting...the anticipation is killing me......dying slowly in PA...... :hang: Just barely hanging on.....


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

So it looks like all we are waiting on is DST to make / publish the swap list?


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Wema826 said:


> So it looks like all we are waiting on is DST to make / publish the swap list?


:laughing::laughing::yes:Looks like he's sleeping in ...:sleep1::sleep1:

Hope he's not


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

No no no, DST is waiting on me! Sorry. I had a crazy shift sat, ran all day and all night. Then had a lumbering & timber framing demo yesterday. I'll get the compiled list over to him in a few. 

Really sorry bout that guys!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> No no no, DST is waiting on me! Sorry. I had a crazy shift sat, ran all day and all night. Then had a lumbering & timber framing demo yesterday. I'll get the compiled list over to him in a few.
> 
> Really sorry bout that guys!


Sounds like you're the one that needs to sleep in.....:thumbsup:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

*The list has been compiled and sent -*

Ok, I've sent the list to DST. Once he gets it mixed around I expect you will each get a PM. Be sure to check that your PM box is not full!!!

There will be 16 gauges swapped! If for some reason you are not listed below, it's is imperative that you get with me soon!


JohnnyTooBad

ChrisCurl

guglipm63

Al B Thayer

Longknife

Phaedrus 

Alchymist 

trc65 

vursunbach x3

justin

firemedic

sharbin 

timetestedtools

Wema826 


I hope to get pictures soon! Who ever gets the first Gauge gets the honor of starting the "Pictures Thread" ... be sure we don't start two threads though!

Cheers!
Jean


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Sweet! im on shift today and the post office is right next door!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> Sweet! im on shift today and the post office is right next door!


Just go ahead and mail it to me then, lol


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> I hope to get pictures soon! Who ever gets the first Gauge gets the honor of starting the "Pictures Thread" ... be sure we don't start two threads though!
> 
> Cheers!
> Jean


How about - first person to receive their gauge and start the pictures thread also put a link to the thread here.....


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> How about - first person to receive their gauge and start the pictures thread also put a link to the thread here.....


:yes: and puts a link here to there! :laughing:


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Alchymist said:


> How about - first person to receive their gauge and start the pictures thread also put a link to the thread here.....


LOL, a good idea. It is almost as if we are getting good at this whole forum thing and being organized :laughing:

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> :yes: and puts a link here to there! :laughing:


I thought that's what I said! :yes:

But then, what you heard that you thought I said may not be what I thought I said that you heard.....


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

Alchymist said:


> I thought that's what I said! :yes:
> 
> But then, what you heard that you thought I said may not be what I thought I said that you heard.....


What?

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## sharbin (Feb 21, 2013)

Hey guys,

Have the swap assignments been made yet? I am new to the forum. So if they are being sent via PM, I don't think I have permissions to read them. Hopefully I have not missed them. 

Thanks.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

sharbin said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Have the swap assignments been made yet? I am new to the forum. So if they are being sent via PM, I don't think I have permissions to read them. Hopefully I have not missed them.
> 
> Thanks.


No, they haven't gone out. DST emailed me this morn saying they will go out today... I'll send him your email to be sure you get it.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Well... I now know who I am sending to!...


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

All have been sent their recipients,

Justin and Shardin your preferences are set for no PMs I have forwarded your recipient names to Jean as I assume he has your emails.
Let me know either way and we will make sure you get the info you need ASAP.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

DST said:


> All have been sent their recipients,
> 
> Justin and Shardin your preferences are set for no PMs I have forwarded your recipient names to Jean as I assume he has your emails.
> Let me know either way and we will make sure you get the info you need ASAP.


Yesssss! Let the flood of picture posts begin!

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

Yohoo, we're on! I wont be able to mail mine today since May 1 is a national holiday here, but the package is ready and will go out tomorrow.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Longknife said:


> Yohoo, we're on! I wont be able to mail mine today since May 1 is a national holiday here, but the package is ready and will go out tomorrow.


Ha, I am sure it will be out soon enough. I just got done writing a short letter to my recipient. I elected to write instead of type since I type all day...but they will have to interpret my inept scrawling! The anticipation might just kill me!

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks DST for sorting out and sending all of us info, it is much appreciated.

Mine will be on it's way within an hour


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

trc65 said:


> Thanks DST for sorting out and sending all of us info, it is much appreciated.
> 
> Mine will be on it's way within an hour


Yes, we all owe him a big thanks! He's not swapping a gauge but was kind enough to volunteer as a third party to mix up the names!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Yes, we all owe him a big thanks! He's not swapping a gauge but was kind enough to volunteer as a third party to mix up the names!


:thumbsup::yes:


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Yes, we all owe him a big thanks! He's not swapping a gauge but was kind enough to volunteer as a third party to mix up the names!


:laughing: He probably just likes playing god--it is a huge power trip I am sure!

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## sharbin (Feb 21, 2013)

A big thanks to Firemedic and DST for organizing and coordinating this swap!


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

Phaedrus said:


> :laughing: He probably just likes playing god--it is a huge power trip I am sure!
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


LOL,
It would have been fun to manipulate you all a little. You know, look at addresses and make some two way swaps etc. However I can assure you it was 100% random assignment.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks for doing this guys! I just got my PM last night. I haven't been on line in quite a while just because work and life have kept me way too busy. Mine will be on its way soon.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

sharbin said:


> A big thanks to Firemedic and DST for organizing and coordinating this swap!


Ditto...:thumbsup:

Mine went out this morning.. 
Suspect there's going to be a lot of anticipation over the coming few days.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Well, mine went out to my brother at around 1400 today... Doubt it will arrive first as it cost a whole whopping $2 to ship :laughing:


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Mine is shipped and will arrive in a distant land on Saturday.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

BTW, to the guy who gets mine -

If it doesn't work for a marking gauge, it sure is a mean Copenhagen can opener! :laughing:


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

i suppose i should fess up ...

i found a pic of one on the internet to submit, and i don't really have a gauge to swap.

sorry





did i have you all going? god willing, mine will go out tomorrow.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> i suppose i should fess up ...
> 
> i found a pic of one on the internet to submit, and i don't really have a gauge to swap.
> 
> ...


Funny. Real funny.

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> i suppose i should fess up ...
> 
> i found a pic of one on the internet to submit, and i don't really have a gauge to swap.
> 
> ...


Uh huh... Thats why I reverse searched each picture to be sure that THAT didn't happen...


Just kidding :laughing: I trust you guys! :laughing:


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## justin (Jul 2, 2007)

DST said:


> All have been sent their recipients,
> 
> Justin and Shardin your preferences are set for no PMs I have forwarded your recipient names to Jean as I assume he has your emails.
> Let me know either way and we will make sure you get the info you need ASAP.


Sorry, I have not responed earlier. Work has been crazy, we were getting ready for this big inspection this weekend. 

But to comfirm, Yes I got the info of who I am sending it to and will be sending it ASAP. Thank you


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

Well, I'm with RRBrown on this.... I can't wait to see the pics! I REALLY wanted to participate in this, but my bad procrastination habit put it off, and when my other build started to take life, I had to choose between one or the other. Mama's birthday took precedent... Of course, maybe if I could have come up with a way to convince her she could use a marking gauge to cut a cake, then I would have built one. I hope to participate in any more that my come up. I promise not to put it off again.

Now, Bring on the pics!


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## guglipm63 (Feb 27, 2013)

Mines on its way to sunny Florida


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Ya'll just love dropping those hints, huh! haha


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Ya'll just love dropping those hints, huh! haha


Mine went south & west from PA....:smile:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

thegrgyle said:


> Well, I'm with RRBrown on this.... I can't wait to see the pics! I REALLY wanted to participate in this, but my bad procrastination habit put it off, and when my other build started to take life, I had to choose between one or the other. Mama's birthday took precedent... Of course, maybe if I could have come up with a way to convince her she could use a marking gauge to cut a cake, then I would have built one. I hope to participate in any more that my come up. I promise not to put it off again.
> 
> Now, Bring on the pics!


Be honest that other project was not just for a present but a chance for a $1600 prize.:laughing:


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

rrbrown said:


> Be honest that other project was not just for a present but a chance for a $1600 prize.:laughing:


BUSTED! :laughing: :laughing:


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Mine went south and east, but it pretty much had to since I live so far north and west.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Mine went north west. Could I be any stupider? I shipped it out of a Pak and Ship. $$$$

al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## sharbin (Feb 21, 2013)

Shipped mine this morning. It is heading in a northeasterly direction.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Phaedrus said:


> Mine went south and east, but it pretty much had to since I live so far north and west.


I just got a brown package here at work!... Picture Thread shall ensue soon!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Just started the Pictures Thread! I'm on mobile, someone help a brutha out with posting the link here, thanks!


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

*swap*

just got home last night. Mine went out this morning.


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## guglipm63 (Feb 27, 2013)

firemedic said:


> Just started the Pictures Thread! I'm on mobile, someone help a brutha out with posting the link here, thanks!


http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/pictures-marking-gauge-swap-51284/


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Who is ready for another swap?

What will we swap this time?


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## wood_chucker (Oct 18, 2012)

I am I missed the last one. Any ideas?


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Hummmnnnn... Push sticks?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> Hummmnnnn... Push sticks?


:laughing: maybe something a but more complicated - a working tool of some sort?


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

wood body hand plane?


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'd be up for some sort of working tool, but I'm not sure what would be best. 

One idea might be a bow saw. We could all start with the same blade/hardware package and build from there. That would require a larger amount of money than a mallet or marking gauge, but I think there might be interest. There have been a couple of recent threads talking about them......

BTW - if there is a lot of interest or ideas posted here, we should probably start a new thread to get the most exposure.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

i'd like to be in, I'll follow with interest to see what is decided upon


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Dovetail marking templates? The items themselves are really simple and small, but it would allow for stylizations, embellishments, and other details to be added.

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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

some Ideas so far:

Bow saw ~ the kit is available from Gramercy tools for $25.95 (pins and 3 blades) $49.95 for pins, blades and knobs)

wooden hand plane
push stick(s)
dovetail templets
back saw
marking knife
panel gauge
pair of skew chisels
try square(s)
mitre guage


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

All good ideas - do we have any general consensus yet?

Tim, feel free to start this as a new thread - it probably should be. I wanted all of the guys from the last swap to see the chatter about another swap. Maybe post a link after you do?

Jean


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Bevel gauge? Picture shamelessly lifted from:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/34737


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

new thread started here for the new tool swap!

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/tool-swap-53809/


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

timetestedtools said:


> wood body hand plane?


I like this idea

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