# Water bathed dust collector



## Gregad (Jan 5, 2014)

Industry uses a water curtain behind paint spray booths to collect the dried paint particles. My wife has a vacuum that has water in a tank to eliminate dust exhausting from vacuum. (Really eliminates dust)

Has anyone ever seen or tried a dust collector that filters the exhaust through water after removing the large particles in a canister?


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

No but I've thought about the possibility. What make & model vac does your wife have, and what are the specs for its filtering ability? 

What % of 5 micron will it grab?
What % of 3 micron will it grab?
Etc.

The air might LOOK clean existing the vac, but how do you _know_ it is actually grabbing the specks that are too small to see with the human eye?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I've thought about it....but thought the issue that would likely creep up for hobby use is mold....wet sawdust + sitting = mold. 

Paint particles for the most part aren't organic materials....it's an intriguing idea however


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

Steve, I'll bet he's talking about a Rainbow vacumm. We had one for years, not anymore...


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I've seen the drywall sanding kits that work with the water tank idea, I guess similar to your wife's vac. I have seen them in use, and they do really well.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I have an electric clothes dryer in my laundry room. In the winter when the air is so dry, I run the exhaust into a water bath lint trap which seems to catch absolutley everything. That gives me warm (I paid for it) and moist air for my house, too. About $20 at Home Hardware.
I think I could rig it so the trap was in a box with an exhaust fan in the side, the hose collecting sanding dust. Hmmmmmm, have the fan on a dimmer switch doing nothing at the moment.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

Robson Valley said:


> I have an electric clothes dryer in my laundry room. In the winter when the air is so dry, I run the exhaust into a water bath lint trap which seems to catch absolutley everything. That gives me warm (I paid for it) and moist air for my house, too. About $20 at Home Hardware.
> I think I could rig it so the trap was in a box with an exhaust fan in the side, the hose collecting sanding dust. Hmmmmmm, have the fan on a dimmer switch doing nothing at the moment.


The difference between your dryer vent water trap and the water vac is significant. On paper the water vac has a water chamber that, when under negative pressure, causes the water to vaporize and that, in turn, supposedly, traps incoming airborne particulate and/or dissolves it. All the dryer vent really does is blow lint-laden air across the water surface and isn't all that efficient, according to some sites I've read recently. One site said this:

*"What about vent buckets or lint traps?*

Sold in hardware stores everywhere, a vent bucket (aka lint trap) is a device that you fill with water, connect to a clothes dryer duct and hope the water collects the lint. Although widely used, especially in older homes, they are not recommended. They have a limited ability to catch lint, while allowing gallons of water to be pumped into the home and create a potential air quality issue. Whether it will have a negative effect depends on a number of factors such as the climate, how often the dryer is used, and so forth. Another popular home remedy is to use a woman’s nylon stocking to filter lint—also not recommended; it creates a fire hazard!"

I would imagine that it traps some lint but allows the release of fine lint back into the vented environment due to just blowing the air across the water. Just like a large pore DC allows almost invisible dust back into the shop.

Just my opinion,

Paul


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

If that lint bucket trap left my laundry room with a veneer of crud, I would have long since quit using it. I point it out as the silly thing works far better than I ever imagined?
How many winters/loads have you run one?


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Water molecules have electrostatic polarity (e.g., simple diagram), and the drier lint (or sawdust) we blow thru our ducts take on a static charge..... maybe that's got something to do with it. I imagine someone who wanted to know could get all kinds of info from OSHA.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

Robson Valley said:


> If that lint bucket trap left my laundry room with a veneer of crud, I would have long since quit using it. I point it out as the silly thing works far better than I ever imagined?
> How many winters/loads have you run one?


Well, actually, I had one in my basement for years, the one that HD sells. And I didn't say it didn't work, as you can plainly read, I said it wasn't that effective and that was for me, as I also stated that it was my opinion.


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Don't forget that with a water bath paint booth, the filters behind the water fall still gets dirty and requires changing. 

Same thing would happen with dust systems. 

I'm not sure it would be cost effective, especially when considering challenges such as mold, water problems, etc.


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## Civilian (Jul 6, 2013)

Fred Hargis said:


> I've seen the drywall sanding kits that work with the water tank idea, I guess similar to your wife's vac. I have seen them in use, and they do really well.


I use a 16 gal shop vac and a 5 gal pail of water with with a lid with a in and out holes for 2 1/2" hoses. When sanding drywall the dust hit the water and sinks in the pail. No dust goes into the shop vac. Pour the water off and some people use the solids for more mudding.

So yes the wet pail trick works with drywall dust. Yes the water starts to smell after some time. Plus you have a wet mixture to deal with afterwards. I would expect same type of results with wood. But do I want to deal with wet wood dust to dispose off? No. Someone might want to try though.

The lid is similar to this. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004310/8939/Mini-Dust-Collection-Separator.aspx

The hand sander is this: http://www.lowes.com/pd_145878-2009...rrentURL=?Ntt=dustless+hand+sander&facetInfo=

Jon
Northern Michigan


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I love this. Just as long as I'm happy and bucking the trend.
I live alone. The last thing I need is a mess to clean up.
That water bucket trap has worked very well.


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## Gregad (Jan 5, 2014)

The wife's vacuum is a Rainbow. It obviously catches all dust. Just siting it in a room and running it will collect dust and turn water a dark gray. After 20 years of no issues, I had to replace switch. Taking off cover found the impellers and rest of the inside was spotless. Air is sucked up through the whole unit so it surprised me it was so clean inside.

As far as mold goes, I would first run through a collector for large particles. Only the fine dust into water. But hey, one can put a drain on tank for daily drainage and refill easy enough with a hose.

Anyway, this was just an idea. not saying it would work or not.


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Gregad said:


> The wife's vacuum is a Rainbow. It obviously catches all dust. Just siting it in a room and running it will collect dust and turn water a dark gray. After 20 years of no issues, I had to replace switch. Taking off cover found the impellers and rest of the inside was spotless. Air is sucked up through the whole unit so it surprised me it was so clean inside.
> 
> As far as mold goes, I would first run through a collector for large particles. Only the fine dust into water. But hey, one can put a drain on tank for daily drainage and refill easy enough with a hose.
> 
> Anyway, this was just an idea. not saying it would work or not.


If you decide to go this route, I would definitely like to follow a build thread. I think this would be very interesting. Best of luck :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*dust collection vs air filtration*

I see 2 different applications for the idea, one is to filter the dust out of the air, the other is to use a system inline with a shop vac or dust collector. As posted above it seems to work well with drywall dust, which may be heaver the fine wood dust so it settles out sooner/easier...I donno?
One issue I would have with either system would be the noise IF if were used only as a air filter. The motor would have to be fairly quiet, more quiet than current air filtration systems like my Jet AFS 1000 DC. Having any quantity of water overhead in a shop may also be an issue, for cleaning, dripping, leaking etc. 
Shop vacs are notoriously noisy, so that would concern me for a full time continuous type of operation. If it just runs in use and then is shut off it would be no more noisy than without it. 
Another concern would be adding moisture to the shop air if running through a water bath....
I would like to see some experimentation also! More questions than answers from me here. :blink:


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Depending on which thing you read....

Lung troubles start ~= 10 microns and smaller

1 micron ~= 1/300th human hair

Naked human eye can not see the dust that causes lung troubles

So my question is: How can any of us _know_ whatever system we use is really producing safe, breathable air? For those of us using filters of various sorts, we can read the label which is (hopefully) based on careful research at some research lab, more than some marketing department. For homemade systems, how could we test?


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

The dust analysis can be done, of course, but it is technically expensive.
Research microscopes have the lenses to image micron particles.
Somehow, you have to catch enough of it to have something to look at.
Something to be subdivided for various chemical/physical testing.
But, what is it? Is it really dust from your activity or are the particles
just some of the soup of ambient air dust (mineral) or spores or bacteria. . . . . . . 

This is a big deal in libraries which are offered book collections from estates.
What sort of dust is on those books? "Sick House" mold spores?


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA

This is the class of filter that should do the job.

I just had a quick look at the 39 different HEPA filter sizes and shapes that I can buy in my village Home Hardware store.


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## Gregad (Jan 5, 2014)

SteveEl said:


> Depending on which thing you read....
> 
> Lung troubles start ~= 10 microns and smaller
> 
> ...


Steve, What originally gave me this idea, I remember the salesman demonstrating the Rainbow Vacuum to us years ago. He placed a clean white piece of muslin fabric over the end of the suction hose and run the Rainbow for 5 minutes using a stop watch to time the event. When he pulled the muslin off the end of the hose, there was a circle of almost black dust on it. Beings my wife keeps our house spotless, this convinced me that even though we couldn't see the dust, it was definitely there.

Each time we use the Rainbow as a air filter, the water turns a dark gray. Obviously, we have lots of dust even though my wife is a clean freak! 

I put a clean muslin bag over the collection bag of my dust collector just to test it. I think it caught just as much dust as the collector bag. Also tried a bag over the Shop Vac outlet. Nasty! When I tied another clean bag over the Rainbow housing, I got barely any discoloration from the exhaust.

This is why I am thinking of trying to build a water bath dust collector. I read the comments about water, mold, ect. and looking at ways to easily dump, rinse and fill tank.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

It's great to have things in the shop serve dual duty, right? Eureka! If you have (or add) a shop toilet, you can just pipe the air into the bowl below the water line -- Solves the water-change problem, too!

OK that was humor. Let us know how it goes.


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