# gluing a few boards together for a baseball bat?



## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

I guess i could buy a nice ash blank on ebay for less than 25 bucks, but i've got some scrap that's a good length but doesn't have the thickness.

does this sound like a bad idea? the grain i know is important, and perhaps the feel would be odd to have 2 woods' weights.

just wondering....


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Is it for show or use?


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## ghost5 (Aug 19, 2012)

I wouldn't do it. That kind of flex and pressure waves running thru glue joints just doesn't sound like the best idea.


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## dartman (Oct 12, 2012)

Just what I was thinking.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

I simply don't know.

I read time and again that a good glue joint is stronger than the wood around it ... and laminated beams can support a greater weight than a simple piece of tree the same dimensions.

:huh:


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I really don't know either. I do a lot of glue ups over the years and a good long grain glue joint is stronger than the wood. However I have never looked at the shock value of the same joint. I've never seen a bat made from anything but solid wood unless it's for show so there must be something to that. If it's for a child to use occasionally I wouldn't worry about it. If it's for serious use then I would go with what we know works, solid wood.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Laminated wood has entirely different dynamics that a solid piece of wood.

No. Do not attempt unless it is purely for show.

George


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## ghost5 (Aug 19, 2012)

While I agree that glue joints are strong it is still very different dynamics you are dealing with. I made my living for years using and depending on different adhesives along with learning their properties. 

Glue joints are going to change the ability of the glued material to absorb and direct applied stresses in a manner that will allow them to not fracture under sudden pressure. Comparing a moving mass (bat) striking a second moving mass (ball) in a very confined area is not the same as a beam that is designed to absorb pressure of a wide area and then send the load to other bearing surfaces.

In short I don't think I would trust it. :blink:


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

If you've never turned a bat and want some bat making practice I couldn't think of a better way to use your odds and ends being this probably isn't going to the majors.

I made one years ago from ash, the wood of choice, and it would sting the hands something awful from vibration. If I knew where it is I'd probably burn it for stove wood.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't see why it wouldn't work with the exception of appearance. I have a woodcarving mallet that is glued up scraps of ash. The head of it was also bored out and filled with lead and it holds up fine.


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

Edited


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## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

All of these are exactly what went through my head. 

No one's said, bah...who cares just try it and if it breaks no biggie. the real ones break all the time. 

but i guess it could be dangerous if it was more susceptible to breaking. then i thought about somehow keeping it together with a good athletic tape or something.

i wonder if people have tried different types of woods. maple, hickory, and ash and definitely really hard woods. I'm wondering about weird grains like elm that they use for wheel hubs...or old growth vs new.

etc...

anyhoo...i just started turning this week so maybe the practice would be good.


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## fire65 (Apr 27, 2013)

Oh go ahead and try it, let us know what happens.


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## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

i'm doing both by the way! thanks for the input!

I'll make a smaller one with the ones together, and if i survive not being impailed with wood, i ordered an ash blank


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

According to the Louisville Slugger factory, Hickory was tried for the major leagues but it was determined to be too heavy because of the interest in bat swing speed.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

A view from another angle:

My guess is that a laminated bat would be considered "illegal" in any kind of league play. If the bat had produced hits or homers during the game, it could lead to a forfeit. Imagine explaining that to the other little league parents!


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## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

ha. i'm probably going to just play pick up games with friends. not even games. more like a sandlot of grown men where we just throw a ball around and hit it.


I doubt anyone is going to pitch more than 50 mph.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

A thread from earlier in the year. One league did allow laminated bats.

There are lots of laminated mallets. Not sure the difference in stress between baseball bat and mallet, perhaps more flexing due to the length of the bat.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/baseball-bat-questions-49206/


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

johnmark said:


> ha. i'm probably going to just play pick up games with friends. not even games. more like a sandlot of grown men where we just throw a ball around and hit it.
> 
> 
> I doubt anyone is going to pitch more than 50 mph.


I'm sure glad to see someone that can still have fun in life without involving code gods.

You could even make one painted pink for the girls if they would ever care to play. But that might involve code gods where you guys couldn't even look at it much less touch it.:laughing:


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

duncsuss said:


> I simply don't know.
> 
> I read time and again that a good glue joint is stronger than the wood around it ... and laminated beams can support a greater weight than a simple piece of tree the same dimensions.
> 
> :huh:


I always hear that too. Funny how glue is touted as stronger than the wood. Yet most breaks I've seen on glued-up panels occur right there at the glue joint. Though the glue itself doesn't shear apart, breaks still occurs at or very near the glue joint a lot more often than would be expected by chance.

Anyone know why that is? What's happening to make the wood a grain or two away from the glue the weakest point? I think it's the fact that the glue on the joint often isn't making as much surface contact as the wood fibers make against themselves. So, suddenly, the glue joint actually DOES become the weakest point. Because there is a line where glue meets wood. And in the midst of that line is air pockets, no matter how well you spread and pack the glue. This increases any forces at the _actual_ wood-glue contact barrier. 

My point is that breakage is more likely to occur with a glue joint present, particularly in high shock conditions. I know some may argue against my reasoning. After all, there's all this lore that glue joints are stronger than solid wood. Sure, a given glue line may be stronger than a given weak grain line of a given board. I just don't quite buy that story as an overarching truth. I've SEEN too many breaks AT glue joints to be convinced of this being anything but a myth.

Perhaps the myth - or, at the least, overconfidence - stems from the fact that strengths in one board can compensate for a fault in another if they are bound together (glued or otherwise). In that case, yes, a particular cracked or weak board will be stronger if glued to another board in such a way that the weakness is supported by the one it's glued to.

With all other factors equal, a solid thick blank is going to be stronger than the same thickness created via laminated glue-ups. It has to be.

Sorry if this tangent diverts the thread a little.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I repair a fair amount of antique furniture and the glue joints that break are probably due to moisture or age or both. Same is true with cutting boards. In those cases I'm pretty sure it's moisture that causes the problems. 
On fresh glue joints (lets say a couple of years) if the joint fails it almost always pulls wood with it and the glue holds. 
Heat will also break a glue joint. If it's a joint that isn't long grain to long grain then it will break due to wood movement. I've seen many many chairs break due to the leg grain being 90 degrees to the rail grain. When the seats break they are long grain to long grain and I believe that goes back to the age of the glue and possibly wood movement. 
The only bent lamination repairs I've had to do were due to moisture or water damage. I have not seen any due to age but then it could just be I don't see that many.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

john lucas said:


> I repair a fair amount of antique furniture and the glue joints that break are probably due to moisture or age or both. Same is true with cutting boards. In those cases I'm pretty sure it's moisture that causes the problems.
> On fresh glue joints (lets say a couple of years) if the joint fails it almost always pulls wood with it and the glue holds.
> Heat will also break a glue joint. If it's a joint that isn't long grain to long grain then it will break due to wood movement. I've seen many many chairs break due to the leg grain being 90 degrees to the rail grain. When the seats break they are long grain to long grain and I believe that goes back to the age of the glue and possibly wood movement.
> The only bent lamination repairs I've had to do were due to moisture or water damage. I have not seen any due to age but then it could just be I don't see that many.


I agree that failure occurring over time is more likely do to moisture and wood movement. But breaks due to drops and other physical shock affecting the whole piece (I don't mean a chip on the corner of a table) often gravitate towards the glue joints, in my experience and in some demonstrations I've seen that "prove how glue joints are stronger than wood". See, the glue line is intact. Sure, but parts of the glue line are literally exposed and the rest of the breakage migrated only a very short distance away.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> See, the glue line is intact. Sure, but parts of the glue line are literally exposed and the rest of the breakage migrated only a very short distance away.


In one scenario I can think of it makes perfect sense that this would happen. (Note that I'm not saying you are wrong, or that this scenario explains your experience.)

Let's say you have two 6" boards, edge-jointed to make a 12" wide panel, and you have a 12" panel that's a single board.

Smack them with something (a karate black-belt's hand, for example).

Both are very likely to break close to the middle, simply because that's where physics dictates they will flex the most.

I don't think the fact that the glue line is close caused the board to break there.

I wonder where a 12" panel made up of 3 boards, arranged 3" + 6" + 3", would break.


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## johnmark (Jul 21, 2012)

the geometry of most joints and the use of the the object would be fairly key. like...applying pressure to the corner of a chair...of course the break will happen at a corner where glue is as opposed to the middle of a board, and i think most instances of the impact of an object and the glue joint of the object are similar to the chair. The purpose and joint of the bat are an unusual placement.

Even when dealing with a bat from a reputable company, they know the grain of each bat, and where the strength and weakness are. They put the logo of the bat in the place you line up your leading hands first set of knuckles.

i think in the case of the multiple boards being glued together, applying a branding or at least just remembering how to orientate the bat when swinging to be adjacent to the joint rather than parallel, could keep the bat from becoming a well formed splinter stick. 

but we'll see. i did some planing and glued them up and have cut it to size and made it octagonal today. I'll give it a turn tomorrow. I've got a few tricks i have to do to get it to fit in my lathe, but it should be at least done tomorrow. I still have to get someone to throw a ball in my vicinity.


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

Possibly more than you ever wanted to know about baseball bats.

http://www.woodbat.org/


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## vcooney (Dec 21, 2008)

I took a woodworking coarse in college and we glued up a bunch of ash blanks to make bats for the baseball team. The bats looked great but when the players used them they complained about the shock/sting to their hands and brought them back. For baseball bats to be used gluing not an option.


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