# How hard is it to rebuild a kitchen cabinet?



## Marti (Nov 22, 2010)

My dh & I are split on this, so I thought I'd seek the opinions of you experts. 

I am going to attempt to put a couple of pictures here too.

Our kitchen cabinets are custom, and well built. I think they are ash. They were built in 1983 and the style was probably popular at that time. The pantry cabinet is the depth of the base cabinets, about 2 feet, and about 5 feet tall. Above that is a cabinet the depth of the upper cabinets, about 1 foot, and it is about 20 inches tall. And at 5'2", I find it totally unusable. 

We are going to give the kitchen a facelift, keeping most of the cabinets, and my plan is to make the kitchen more user friendly. That user being me.

To that end, I want to pull the face frame off the shallow upper cabinet, take off the plate rail, build out the sides so they are the same as the pantry cabinet, and reattach the face frame. In addition, I want to to build that upper cabinet up to the ceiling. I'll have to build additional face frame. I have doors from the cabinet above the stove that will work there. I won't take down the fur down, just build the additional cabinet around it. Storage is an issue here and even though it won't gain much, it is better than a useless fur down.

Dh thinks it will be too much trouble to do that. He is also 6'4" and doesn't have a problem with upper cabinets.

What do you think? Do-able? or not worth the effort?

Here was where I was going to add photos. But it's not working like I thought it would. I searched the FAQs and didn't find anything about photo size or how to put photos in posts. Could someone direct me please?

Thanks woodnthings. dh=dear husband, darling works too.

Wow, those are the smallest photo requirements I've ever seen. Hope you can see these. If not, I'll link to photobucket where the photos can be larger.

First photo is front view of cabinet. Second is from the side so you can see the setback of the upper. Third is a crude mock-up done in Paint to show what I want to do.

Please overlook the mess. Got a new dishwasher and knew this was my only chance to refinish the cabinets around that opening.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*one way is...*

Click on Edit in your original post or post a Reply
Click "Go Advanced" in an edit
After you type your text, look down below and find the box "Manage Attachments" Click it.
This will open a smaller window, make it full screen, and click "Browse". This will direct you where your photos are stored in your computer, usually "My Pictures"
Click on each of the photos you want, maximum of 4, and then *WAIT* for them to "Upload."
They will then show as jpg files or other type. Click "close this window"
You will then see them as "attachments" in your reply.
Click "Save Changes!"
That's it, you're done.  bill
Please define dh....


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Please define dh....


 It could stand for "darling husband".












 









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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Opinions here are free*

No charge for this one! I don't like the uppermost one breaking the shelf/cove line across. It looks so "added on" The middle one would look fine brought out flush with the tall lower. 
Yes, it's doable but you will have existing frames to match and stain etc. Not worth it in my "opinion" and won't look "right". Hello to your...DH BTW. I guess we are in partial agreement on this. :blink: bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Here's my opinion. You will have a problem when removing the face frame if it's glued on. Either the frame will get damaged, or the front edge of the cabinet will suffer. Then to match up the exposed side could be difficult. 

IMO, the upper cabinet proposal to the ceiling looks really out of place and doesn't follow the kitchen lines. My suggestion would be if you don't want to make a new cabinet, take down the existing one, and cut off the face frame. Be careful for mechanical fasteners.

You could make the box extension and machine a blind spline to attach the box to the existing cabinet. 

If you run the continuous plate shelf out in front to make the look continuous, the look from the front will look like this picture:
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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

The modifications you suggest would be easy for someone like me who does this sort of thing every day professionally and has the right tools. I don't know what your ability level is so you will have to be the judge.

I agree with the others that you should keep the top even with the other cabinets.

You'd have to get DH to reach the top shelf if you went all the way up. 

Good luck, Bret


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

To me how the pantry is proud of the upper looks odd and I can see why you are having trouble with it functionally. I would salvage the doors and face frame and build a new box so that the cabinet will be flush with the pantry.

I've installed close to 100 kitchen's worth of prefab cabinets and I can tell you if these are prefab and built anything like the ones I've worked with, you should be able to remove the face frame with very little hassle. The better brands will have more staples but the glue joint is pretty weak on every brand I've installed. Just take a block and hammer and tap the frame loose about 1/8" at a time. 

Getting an end panel that will match will be a problem. Don't count on getting an exact match, a close match will be difficult. Sometimes it is better to just paint it a different color altogether so it doesn't look like you were trying to match it but failed miserably. 

You will also have to wrap the crown out and around the top of the cabinet or figure out another way to give it a finished look, again bringing up the problem of matching the finish. I would probably romove all the crown and either fill the nail holes and leave it (It's not uncommon for people to not use crown) or I would use a paint-grade crown and paint it the same color as the end panel.

No, it won't look quite right as Bill said, but to me it doesn't look right to have an upper set back from the pantry cabinet like that either so I would go for functionality. That's probably a lie, I would most likely just leave it how it is, but it would it would at least make it to my to do list.


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## Marti (Nov 22, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> Here's my opinion. You will have a problem when removing the face frame if it's glued on. Either the frame will get damaged, or the front edge of the cabinet will suffer. Then to match up the exposed side could be difficult.


Oh you're right, they are glued. That complicates it. They were made by a local cabinet shop and seem to be made well. However, if I can get dh on board, it can probably be done. Either that, or the whole top cabinet taken out and remade.

My fil was a cabinet maker and dh grew up assisting. We've made a few pieces of furniture and paint grade cabinets, so we're fairly competent, but probably not up on the latest ways of doing things.



sketel said:


> To me how the pantry is proud of the upper looks odd and I can see why you are having trouble with it functionally. I would salvage the doors and face frame and build a new box so that the cabinet will be flush with the pantry.
> 
> I've installed close to 100 kitchen's worth of prefab cabinets and I can tell you if these are prefab and built anything like the ones I've worked with, you should be able to remove the face frame with very little hassle. The better brands will have more staples but the glue joint is pretty weak on every brand I've installed. Just take a block and hammer and tap the frame loose about 1/8" at a time.
> 
> ...


We can probably have a stain mixed to match the old orange-y color so the new color I'm putting on will be the same. I'm using a gel stain and it covers a lot of flaws.

That's a 3" plate rail at the top of the cabinets, and I'm going to take it down and put up something like crown molding. The fur down overhangs the cabinets by about an inch.

Also, the tile backsplash is coming down and there is backer board nailed to the cabinet. At least I hope it is just nailed and not glued. If it's a big mess there, I thought of putting something like a raised panel over the whole thing to hide it.

On the other side of the room will be cabinets that go up to the ceiling, so it wouldn't be totally out of place to have this one to the ceiling also, especially since it is a deeper cabinet than the other upper cabinets. I would like to take down the fur down, but that would mean taking down all the cabinets, and then it's a major remodel, not just a face lift.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Marti said:


> Also, the tile backsplash is coming down and there is backer board nailed to the cabinet. At least I hope it is just nailed and not glued. If it's a big mess there, I thought of putting something like a raised panel over the whole thing to hide it.



Having an end splash on the cabinet does act as an actual splash, but I really don't like the way they look. There's always that top front corner that looks like its going nowhere. That condition can also happen on end walls. If a splash has to be applied for some reason, maybe a 4" high, and even then I don't like the look.












 









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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

I'd take this project on from a cpl different "fronts".And has been mentioned there is an issue with your abilities vs. what a seasoned pro would do.


>Design,is there a "change" or do we want it to meld?

>Construction,can we simply build using orig. method?

>Finish,I'd probably start right here.Ya'll need to really iron out the finish materials/techniques.Nothing screams "homey" more than this area of concern.And this is probably where I'd go back to orig. builder for input.This opens the door for him to possibly supply you with parts as well.

>Upgrades,things that mybe aren't necessary,think options.Exp:Throwing a 5 figured Viking range in,counter tops,special hdwre,ect.

>Budget and timeline(might have to wait til next year for the Viking,haha)


I would start working on the finish.......its gonna figure in irrespective of how far you take the whole project.BW


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

Many good suggestions...I would think that matching the finish on any new construction would require a certain amount of finess. Current cabinets have been subject to UV rays for 27 years and even the original finish materials would not match today.


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## Marti (Nov 22, 2010)

BWSmith said:


> I'd take this project on from a cpl different "fronts".And has been mentioned there is an issue with your abilities vs. what a seasoned pro would do.
> 
> 
> >Design,is there a "change" or do we want it to meld?


Definitely want it to meld, but also bring it up a notch so it's not so dated.



BWSmith said:


> >Construction,can we simply build using orig. method?


 I think so, on everything except the doors. We would have to find the original cabinet maker to get an exact match. We had some cabinets made about 15 years ago (we didn't have a tablesaw at the time) and he didn't have the right bit to match them.



BWSmith said:


> >Finish,I'd probably start right here.Ya'll need to really iron out the finish materials/techniques.Nothing screams "homey" more than this area of concern.And this is probably where I'd go back to orig. builder for input.This opens the door for him to possibly supply you with parts as well.
> 
> I would start working on the finish.......its gonna figure in irrespective of how far you take the whole project.BW


I assure you, this is the one thing I can absolutely say will be easy. Dh did trim carpentry for several years before an accident convinced him to do something else. He's been in the paint business for over 30 years. Matching stains, even old, aged ones, is no problem.



BWSmith said:


> >Upgrades,things that mybe aren't necessary,think options.Exp:Throwing a 5 figured Viking range in,counter tops,special hdwre,ect.


True



BWSmith said:


> >Budget and timeline(might have to wait til next year for the Viking,haha)


True again. We did have the kitchen facelift in the remodel budget, just hadn't planned on starting it just yet.


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

Marti said:


> That's a 3" plate rail at the top of the cabinets,


Should have looked at the pictures better, but sounds like you have a plan anyway.


Marti said:


> If it's a big mess there, I thought of putting something like a raised panel over the whole thing to hide it.


Maybe put an end panel extending all the way up to cover the seams to make everything look like one cabinet? Only thing to consider is if that would leave enough space for the doors to function on the adjacent cabinet. Of course you would still see the seams where the face frames met. 

The more this discussion goes on the more I think it would be easier to simply get rid of the upper and the pantry and build something new for the spot. Maybe salvage the doors.


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## Marti (Nov 22, 2010)

sketel said:


> The more this discussion goes on the more I think it would be easier to simply get rid of the upper and the pantry and build something new for the spot. Maybe salvage the doors.


The more I look at it, the more I think you could be right.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Marti,just some general rambling about the "dated" look..........It ain't "just" the cabmets.The whole rm is dated,and why shouldn't it be?Its this very fact that frustrates us.Looking at just the cabinets or at just one "feature" of rm it would be entirely doable to make that feature disapear.IOWs those cabnets installed in a brand new house with all that goes with it would'nt look so dated?So new floor,new diff paint,new countertops,yadayada and the cabinets would take on this new rm.Kinda hard to describe.

The effect is caused by trendy buying.One of the reasons Hdwd floor(typ Oak)looks good is its basic purity of design.But start making that fl trendy with certain species and its gonna look dated in 15 or 20 years.Same with most things......Heck,Granite counters now have been done to where I can't stand them anymore.And sometime in future some shmuck will be complaining about them.

One trick(which really is no trick at all)used by upscale interior designers....and this isn't the home study,"I always wanted to be an I.D." type found at the local paint store.....is to RUN from trendy.We're looking for purity of/in design.Getting back to the very basics or essence and then building on that.Its a timeless sort of thing.Be EXTREMELY careful even looking at magazines,you have a bullseye painted right on you WRT "marketing"......ever wonder why so many "mag" kitchens are White?

I'd probably pull the whole uppers building new,lose the valance and run cab to ceiling.......possibly paint the cabnets,deffinately paint walls,maybe keep tile and exst. plumbing,spend $$ on lighting.Would even entertain glass doors(devided lites) on uppers,keep lowers and drw fronts and paint them.Best of luck,BW


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## txpaulie (Jul 21, 2010)

M,
Lots of good advice and you seem to have things under control...
Best of luck on your project.

The most I can offer is "simplify".
When we remodeled the kitchen, we started with grand plans and came to realize that our kitchen was not a "magazine" kitchen and could stand simple improvements.
The floorplan and surrounding space led us to our eventual destination.
Mostly complete now, and the only real change I would make would be to follow the old adage, "Novice woodworkers should avoid round corners".:laughing: 

You may want to consider raising the floor a foot or two...
Sorry I could not resist.:no:
You are welcome, in every sense of the word.

p


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## Marti (Nov 22, 2010)

Wow txpaulie, your kitchen is a chef's dream come true!



BWSmith said:


> Marti,just some general rambling about the "dated" look..........It ain't "just" the cabmets.The whole rm is dated,and why shouldn't it be?Its this very fact that frustrates us.Looking at just the cabinets or at just one "feature" of rm it would be entirely doable to make that feature disapear.IOWs those cabnets installed in a brand new house with all that goes with it would'nt look so dated?So new floor,new diff paint,new countertops,yadayada and the cabinets would take on this new rm.Kinda hard to describe.
> 
> The effect is caused by trendy buying.One of the reasons Hdwd floor(typ Oak)looks good is its basic purity of design.But start making that fl trendy with certain species and its gonna look dated in 15 or 20 years.Same with most things......Heck,Granite counters now have been done to where I can't stand them anymore.And sometime in future some shmuck will be complaining about them.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. If we weren't making other changes that required moving some of the cabinets (can you believe they built this house without a back door?) and if the cabinet finish wasn't peeling, I wouldn't be doing a thing to it. Well, other than the paint. That stencil has got to go. Other than that, it really doesn't bother me. And I won't be doing granite, because like you said, it's today's trend. Who know what will be "the thing" when & if we sell. But since we do have to pull out a cabinet and the cabinets have to be refinished, I thought I'd give the kitchen a facelift. The tile stays, and the light fixtures will probably stay even though I'm not wild about fluorescent.

But after getting this little section of cabinet refinished and the new dishwasher in, the kitchen is going on hold again until the destruction is complete.


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## buddycurt (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi
I'm laying a light tan / beige floor in my kitchen and the walls and cabinets are white. What color should I paint the cabinet doors? White doors will get too dirty, so I'd rather not paint them white.


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