# Tools for Hollowing Chair Seats



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'd like to get into making some stools and chairs , and am looking for some tool recommendations to help hollow the seats.

Obviously a convex spokeshave for finishing work, but what about the roughing?

I know that scorps/inshaves are used primarily on green wood, but will they work decently on dried wood?

How about using a larger gouge?

Really would like to do this with hand tools and don't want to use one of the various attachments for a angle grinder.

Any thoughts or experiences you'd like to share are appreciated.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

I have not used it yet other than just messing around, but for my birthday I received a Veritas pullshave to give me the ability to hollow things out. I don't have an inshave/scorp, but I know from messing around with my grandpa's drawknife that the greenwood tools can work hardwood, but it isn't as easy as I imagine it'd be with tools designed with hardwood in mind.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Don't count out a circular plane, never used one but have heard they are great for that type of work.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Gilgaron said:


> I have not used it yet other than just messing around, but for my birthday I received a Veritas pullshave to give me the ability to hollow things out. I don't have an inshave/scorp, but I know from messing around with my grandpa's drawknife that the greenwood tools can work hardwood, but it isn't as easy as I imagine it'd be with tools designed with hardwood in mind.


I had to look up the pullshave - which is strange for me as I often browse Lee Valley when I'm bored:yes: They really should move that out of the "scrapers" category and move it to the "spokeshaves". That tool looks very promising. I was thinking about trying to do it all with a convex spokeshave, but wasn't sure if there would be enough clearance for the handles. I think the pullshave may very well be my next tool purchase.




acowboy said:


> Don't count out a circular plane, never used one but have heard they are great for that type of work.


I was thinking about the circular plane, but I've never seen one in use or even held one, so I've been hesitant to go that route. I've always thought they were kind of a gimmick with that flexible curved sole, but maybe I should rethink that - they obviously worked or there wouldn't be any of them around.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

A gutter adze is what is used for scalloping chair seats


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I think you may be looking for something like this Tim. 
I've never used one, but I know Lola ranch does when he makes his chair seats. 
http://m.harborfreight.com/22-tooth...vided&utm_medium=mobile_redirect#.UxRCESm9LCQ


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

trc65 said:


> I'd like to get into making some stools and chairs , and am looking for some tool recommendations to help hollow the seats.
> 
> Obviously a convex spokeshave for finishing work, but what about the roughing?
> 
> ...


All the above work very well. I like using a convex spokeshave, for both roughing and shaping to a sanded stage. Inshaves also work well for hardwood. I've even used a miniature handplane (Stanley 12-101).

Here's an interesting method, but not with handtools...
.












 








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## mavawreck (Nov 26, 2011)

Gilgaron said:


> I have not used it yet other than just messing around, but for my birthday I received a Veritas pullshave to give me the ability to hollow things out. I don't have an inshave/scorp, but I know from messing around with my grandpa's drawknife that the greenwood tools can work hardwood, but it isn't as easy as I imagine it'd be with tools designed with hardwood in mind.


I was eyeing that myself the other week, I have a settle seat I'd like to rebuild.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

If you want a power tool solution and have an angle grinder, the Turboplane by Arbortech should take out the material for a chair seat in a short time.

http://www.arbortech-turboplane.com/


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Manuka got it right = adze with the gutter shaped blade. So much of the rough work is easily done. Working cross grain with the shoulders of that adze blade shape reduces tearout to a minimum.

I have a Baby Sitka from KT but it's the straight blade which doesn't do well in this app.
I can hollow forms with a Stubai Wood Carver's adze but I do not believe that they are worth the price, new.

The really good ones are made by either Kestrel Tools or North Bay Forge.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks all for the information. It has helped me narrow my thought process.

For now I think I'm going to stick with the hand tools, but I'd sure like to try out the chain saw on a disc one day! I really like the looks of the Turboplane, but man is it pricy. Don't have a table saw so that is out, but I've bookmarked that video for later use.

I'd like to go the route of the adze, but if I do that, I'll still need more tools for smoothing and budget is always a concern. I think what I'm going to do is get the pullshave. It will obviously take a lot more work to get the job done, but I'm never in that much of a hurry anyway. The adze will go on my wish list of tools to obtain, but probably not in the immediate future unless I decide to really get into chair making.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Two things, Tim:
The Lancelot blade in an angle grinder at 15,000+rpm is a bull of a tool just to hang onto. One of the most effective and the most violent woodworking tools that I have ever seen. Wood explodes.
I don't know how many feet/min a big power saw & 36" bar is running but the Lancelot makes it look kind of stupid.

The curved pullshave (aka "inshave") is a peaceful way to conduct the process.
= = = 
The gutter shape adze blade is fairly versatile. Besides chair seats, it is the standard rough-out tool for big bowls (not turned on a lathe.) I might buy one and haft if myself as usual. I'll get a small one from Kestrel Tools. On Saturday, I bought a dozen shake blocks from a cedar mill, each 24" x 9" thick x 12" wide for $5 each. Just might need to make some big popcorn bowls.
BTW, wet and frozen solid, they weigh in at 40lbs each.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Came across this video, chair making at the end, but the use-sage of tools is amazing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wGDkliy1DEU


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## HandMadeInWood (Jul 30, 2013)

.

Allow me to recommend this book on chair-making by hand that explains the process of hollowing seats:

Welsh Stick Chairs: John Brown: 9780854420834: Amazon.com: Books

In it, John Brown talks of using a travisher for bottoming out the seat, but says that they are hard to find. 
Next, he uses a small hand adze, (though he says that he prefers a gutter adze), followed by a cooper's stoup, which he calls a 'round-both-ways' plane. It is a small compound compass plane that is curved in both directions. He finishes the lot with a card scraper.

The whole thing is done by hand because he had no power - by choice. 

All best from Wales


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Some hand tools may seem to work fast, but may cause more work because of it. I'm thinking an adze would be too rough...even to 'rough it out', as it would create some tear out and gouges. Very hard to use to do controlled shaping.

If you are planning to buy a handtool to do the project, many will work, but in the end I would spend the money on a convex spoke shave. While inshaves and scorps work well I would only use a two handed version, as it can be controlled a bit better in hardwood than a one handed tool. The down side is they would have to be kept sharp and call for more tending than a spokeshave blade. 

In either case...spokeshave or inshave/scorp, fix the seat stock to your bench. That will allow more control in using the tool. I'm leaning more to a spoke shave because it can be set up for depth of cut, and is easy to use in a skewed controlled motion. It brings you closer to the wood, which is a good feeling.








 








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## egeorge1 (Dec 18, 2009)

trc65 said:


> I'd like to get into making some stools and chairs , and am looking for some tool recommendations to help hollow the seats.
> 
> Obviously a convex spokeshave for finishing work, but what about the roughing?
> 
> ...


Lie-Nielsen makes a convex sole block plane for chair seats. I haven't used it myself, just happened to notice it the other day.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Don't think for a minute that you can buy an adze and proceed to rough out the seat of the chair of your dreams. I have been using a Stubai wood carver's adze for maybe 5 years. I have been using a Baby Sitka elbow adze (Kestrel Tools) for just a few months, if that. It's all about control to make an overlapping row of cuts. I'm not quite there yet. If the edge management is done properly, the adze is carving sharp. There's far less tearout that I ever expected. The gutter shape would be even better.
You can begin at the stock wood surface with finishing tools and try to cut away what is needed.
Or, you can approximate the needed shape, very quickly, with an adze. Then finish with other tools. That is the correct order of business.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

More great comments and suggestions. Thank you all.

The discussion about the adze reminded me of this thread where Longknife used an axe, adze and gouge to make a bowl. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/hand-tool-challange-41202/index4/


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Longknife did a fantastic job of demonstrating a method which has been used for centuries.
"Gutter" profile adze = the shoulders are cutting so the chips can't be ripped out.
Notice the "spoon-bent" gouge. Not a straight shank because you can't get a cutting carving angle going down into the bowl. Mora (Sweden) makes the #162, #163 & #164 crooked knives for the detail finishing work. The inside of a kuksa, for example.

I've been using a 9/15 straight gouge (instead of an adze) to rough out the spoons that I make. Then I use crooked knives to smooth the concave surface. I buy blades and haft my own, they are much like those seen commonly in the Pacific Northwest carving community.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Robson is right .
An adze wielded by competent hands can leave a good finish with little or no tearout .
As with all fine woodworking , the shaping tool is followed by the finishing tool .

For centuries chairmakers have hollowed seats with this 









followed by this 







We saw a gutter adze working in the hands of the spoon maker in the above video .
Nothing rough or torn there .

Constant honing of the edge was the key for me when I adzed the top-strakes /gunwales of this Waka in 1980 . No other tool was needed .


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Nothing too shabby about the boat!

I like the sound of an adze when I can settle down into a rhythym. Wish I had even a weak excuse to go back to Kestrel for boht a D-adze and a finishing adze. Yes, they cut so cleanly that they are used to texture finished surfaces in large wood carvings.

Google "Raven and the First Men." Scroll down through the images to one where Bill Reid is sitting on his carving to get some sense of the size of the glue-up of more than 140 pieces of yellow cedar. That entire carving has a textured surface of adze marks, each not much larger than a postage stamp.

To me, a chair seat is just a shallow bowl. So, like carving bowls, there must be at least 6 or 10 'correct' ways to do it. Pick one. Learn it. It won't be self evident at all.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Manuka - that is an impressive boat. Tell us more, there has to be a story behind it: is it yours? were you part of a crew building it?


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

The waka Hawaiki-Nui is the work of this man , Greg Matahi Whakataka Brightwell , 
pictured here with his brothers and others at the first worksite in Porirua .

The hulls , two massive Totara trees , have been chainsaw milled on the outer , 
and hollowed by the simple method of cutting down into the log and with the aid of wedges , physically ripping boards out .
(If there is one thing that Totara timber loves doing , it is splitting. :yes










The carving shed in Pahīatua 












I didn't get to Tahiti to construct the waka , or on the voyage home to here .
The Hawaiki-Nui now resides in a nautical museum in Tahiti. 

A wee bit about The Hawaiki-Nui
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/2240/carving-the-hawaiki-nui



And here in mid-photo , with carpenter's folding rule in back pocket is yours truly :shifty:.
The rauawa (gunnels) I was adzing are in the foreground .
They are some of the timbers ripped out of the hulls. 
(The photographer wanted a tighter shot, 
thats' why the bench dog is looking at me somewhat quizzically)


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Manuka, you make my heart ache to work with wood like that.
Fair winds and good seas.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Manuka Jock said:


> http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/2240/carving-the-hawaiki-nui


Thanks for the story and the link. That is an interesting read. I love seeing and reading about historical builds, especially those using the same materials and tools as the originals, quite an accomplishment.:thumbsup:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

After reading a little more and visiting the Kestrel Tools and North Bay Forge sites, I'm just about convinced that the gutter adze is the way I want to go. Lot more affordable that I first thought, especially if you go with the iron only or one of the kits. Previously I had only seen the Gransfors Bruks adze which at over $350 is definitely out of my range.

Another factor was seeing the videos of various artists using the adze to carve bowls. That intrigues me and really looks like a lot of fun. Definitely something I want to pursue if I end up getting the adze.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Gregg (Kestrel) and Jim (North Bay) are well known in the Pacific Northwest for their willingness to work with the big-shot/high profile carvers of the native community. The results have been tool designs which work as well as anyone can expect.

By high profile, I mean the Edenshaw/Reid/Davidson group. While it will never appear in any catalog, I have seen pictures of a Davidson argillite carving ($1.5M) which sits outdoors as an "ornament" on the pool deck.

I would like to have even the weakest, the thinnest, of excuses to buy a D-adze blade, maybe a finishing adze blade from Kestrel. D-adze by summer, possibly. If for no theor reason that to explore the technique. I'm curious.
I have a Stubai and a Kestrel adze. The swinging geometries are really different. The Stubai has been exhausting to use = cuts and sticks really badly. So, I've been filing metal off the Stubai according to the geometry explained by Kestrel and it is swinging and carving better and better.

I'm cutting a bowl from a western red cedar shake block, the Stubai was the tool to do some serious shaping. Just little, the block was 18lbs to begin with, I have 2 x 40lb shake blocks in the house to thaw out, the other 10 are out in the snow.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

trc65 said:


> After reading a little more and visiting the Kestrel Tools and North Bay Forge sites, I'm just about convinced that the gutter adze is the way I want to go. Lot more affordable that I first thought, especially if you go with the iron only or one of the kits. Previously I had only seen the Gransfors Bruks adze which at over $350 is definitely out of my range.
> 
> Another factor was seeing the videos of various artists using the adze to carve bowls. That intrigues me and really looks like a lot of fun. Definitely something I want to pursue if I end up getting the adze.


I'd suggest just getting the iron , and make your own haft , or hafts .
Different shape and length for different jobs .

Did you see this chair making video ?


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Robson Valley said:


> Manuka, you make my heart ache to work with wood like that.
> Fair winds and good seas.


Maybe I will get to sail on Waka Hourua a one day , maybe not .
There are quite a few on the ocean today , and more on the blocks.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Robson Valley said:


> Manuka, you make my heart ache to work with wood like that.
> Fair winds and good seas.


 Cheers mate


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

It was no big deal to build the Kestrel Tools Baby Sitka elbow adze.
Buy the blade & instructions. Find the recommended wood (I used birch as it had the right grain pattern.) Trace the pattern and cut it out. Peg the head. Carve the details of the shape and size. Buy 2 hose clamps and use the adze to fool with the blade placement. Cut the blade notch, wrap it down, hard, to make the steel sit down on the wood (notch is not flat).

I cut 2 handles as I guessed correctly that one would turn out better than the other. I bought the spool of #18 tarred seine twine. There's still 1,000' on the spool. If you go this way, let me know and I'll snailmail 3X what you need.


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## Crown plane (Mar 9, 2014)

Hello woodworkers
This is my first post as a member of 21st century. If your making chair seats and stools you might want to check out a compass hollowing plane and travisher. I make them Windsor chair makers use them quite a bit


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Hey Crown! Welcome. What's the wood that you like best for the chairs?

You post reinforces the point that there are several very different ways to carve a chair seat.
Anybody going there needs to pick a method, any method (and I don't think that it matters), and learn to become proficient. Exactly the same as edge management with good wood carving tools.


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## Crown plane (Mar 9, 2014)

Thanks nice to be here. Even though I make the tools for chair making haven't personally made a Windsor chair. The Windsor institute uses pine folks have acquired tools from me and made seats from well you name it. One day I should actually build a Windsor when time allows. 
Gutter adze,Scorp,compass plane,travisher,sand or not, and sit


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