# Bad axe handsaw



## Williams64 (Jan 10, 2015)

Hey guys. Just want an opinion. I'm about to get me a new saw. Doing all of my woodworking with only hand tools now to sharpen my skills and really enjoy the art of woodworking. I will be doing mainly tenons some dovetails and small rips. I was looking at getting a bad axe 12" carcase saw. Seems to fit what I will need. I know when I purchase it they will help me find what I need and information about all the options for me. But was reaching out to you guys and see what kind of feedback I can get. Any experience with bad axe? And I'm not familiar with filing type of hybrid and x-cut? Thanks guys


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

If you're only going to get one saw, and you will be cutting tenons, I would get a tenon saw filed hybrid. Carcass saws are limited usually to 2 - 2 1/2" of cut depth below the back, and inevitably you will come upon a situation where you will wish you had another inch or so of useable depth. 

While I do prefer the smaller carcass saw for bench hook work, a well tuned tenon saw will perform more than adequately here as well. 

Hybrid filing is right in between a rip profile (5-8 degrees of rake and zero fleam) and a cross cut profile (~15 degrees rake and 20-30 degrees fleam depending on the saw). So usually around 12 degrees rake and 5-10 degrees of fleam. This enables the saw to perform both rips & crosscuts well enough to cut tenons. 

I'd look for a 12" 13ppi hybrid cut tenon saw, if I were only buying one saw. Like that ever happens lol


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Also, I've never used a Badaxe saw so I can't comment on their quality/value. But I can say that I own a Lie Nielsen 10" dovetail saw and 14" carcass saw that are 2 of the nicest saws I own. Together they cost about $250, which is about what a 12" carcass saw costs from Badaxe if I'm not mistaken. Just saying maybe you could afford both a dedicated rip and crosscut if you went the Lie Nielsen route. 

Just my .02

Edit: for a pair of tenon saws from LN you're looking at 175 each or 350. Unfortunately they do not offer a hybrid filing pattern though.


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

It's hard to tell from your post, but if you're just getting started in WW'ing, you may not want to drop the big bucks on a BadAxe saw only to find out later that you're not really interested in pursuing it.

To hedge your bets, you may want to have a look at *three* saws from Lee Valley -- you could buy a dedicated dovetail and a rip and crosscut carcase saw and still not have spent what you'll spend on a single BadAxe saw.


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## Williams64 (Jan 10, 2015)

I've been woodworking for about 2 years now and just wanting to really set myself in mostly all hand tool work and good tools. I'd rather pay for a very high quality brand than save money and hurting in the end. I'm really liking the bad axe and seems that Tom Fidgen swears by them. 

I will mostly be doing tenons and small rips as in 4/4 and under small pieces to length. Thanks for the info BZ. I will be getting another saw or 2 down the road lol. So no one has used a bad axe? You do have a point on the LN dovetail and carcase for price I would pay for one saw. Hmmmmmmmmm


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## Williams64 (Jan 10, 2015)

So you guys think LN performs all around just as good? That's what I wanna know. I wish you guys have tried a bad axe lol I wanna know!!!!! BZ go buy one try it out and let me know. If it's good I will buy it from you if not. Well. I'm sorry. Lol jk jk


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

You may want to re-read my answer more carefully --

I didn't say you could get two saws for the price of one BA saw, I said you could get *three*

More importantly, I mentioned Lee Valley saws, not Lie-Nielsen

The point is simply this -- what cuts are you envisioning making that will not be subsequently planed or entirely hidden when assembled?
The LV saws may not aesthetically be for everyone, but they cut just fine. More importantly, you are not compromising with a one-tooth-configuration-fits-all filing.

As always, this is just my $.02, so take it for what it's worth.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Yes you mentioned Lee Valley, but you're not the only one who replied to the post lol. 

Not everyone likes the look of Lee Valley's molded fiberglass back. Personally I think the Veritas back saws look cheesy and plastic. They may cut fine and I'm sure they do, but they do not pass the "fit & finish" test in my personal preferences. 

Lie Nielsen's offerings keep the traditional form (except for the milled brass back instead of a folded one). The fit and finish is excellent and they perform as well as I could ever expect a saw to perform right out of the box. And as an added bonus they are made in the USA.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

I have more than once considered buying a Badaxe saw, as they really are beautiful and I'm sure they sweet performers. But I really cannot justify the price tag that they carry.


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## Williams64 (Jan 10, 2015)

That was a good one BZ lol

Yeah I am on the same page as you are. I'm going to check out a LN. And I'm sure the bad axe are pretty bad axe lol just the price tag. That was the whole reason for the post. To see if say a LN is pretty equal for experienced owners then it wouldn't make sense paying double. Only if the BA really out performed. I'm going with your advise thanks it was very helpful. I'm going to look at a dovetail saw later. But for now you think that carcass or one of the tenon saws? Like I said for now it will be tenons and small rips here and there working with mostly walnut cherry oak maple and ash


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## Williams64 (Jan 10, 2015)

That's another thing. Just so I don't sound totally dumb. Like with BA they can design say a tenon or carcass to meet those needs with filing for mainly tenons and where it is a balance for crosscut and rip when I wanted to make a small crosscut here and there. Correct me if I'm wrong. But yeah trying to narrow my LN down now..


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

Williams64 said:


> Just so I don't sound totally dumb.


It's a little late for that


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

john sayles said:


> It's a little late for that



Now now, no need to be ignorant. Funny how internet forums can make anyone the defacto expert & proclaimer of the final word. Just because not everyone shares your opinion or preferences doesn't mean you have to resort to smarmy comments.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

I've got the LN tapered crosscut saw 

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/carcass-saws/tapered-saws-tapered-crosscut-saw-?node=4146

It cuts fast, smooth, & slick and its accuracy is only limited by your steadiness of hand (or lack thereof lol) 

My rip filed tenon saw is a 90 year old Disston no 4 that I found at a barn sale a couple years ago and restored. But that's another matter entirely. 

Crosscut saws are terrible at ripping. A rip saw with fine teeth (like 13ppi and up) can crosscut ok, but not as well as a dedicated carcass saw. 

If it's in your budget, I'd definitely recommend a 12" or 14" tenon saw filed rip and a carcass saw filed cross.


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## Williams64 (Jan 10, 2015)

john sayles said:


> Williams64 said:
> 
> 
> > Just so I don't sound totally dumb.
> ...



Funny guy john.


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## Williams64 (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks BZ for your help!!! Really helped me learn about hand saws. Everyone has had to at some point

I'm going to get me one this week I can't wait!! Those you recommended for me are exactly what I need for now. Thanks bud!!


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

No problem man. Happy sawing


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