# modifying factory cabinets



## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

Aside from introducing myself, this is my first post and what brought me to this forum for advice.

I'm shaking things up in my kitchen, but I have cabinets that I like. As part of change I want to take some depth out of a tall pantry so that I can move it to a new location. 

I'm trying to decide whether it is easier/better to rip off the front or the back of the cabinet.

The front would require me to edgeband it, drill new hinge mount hole and generally be more visable. The back would require me to replace the rear structural members (stretchers) and find a way to install a back on an assembled item (many back could be skipped).

Anyway, I'm just looking for opinions justifying each option if anyone has any.

Thank you in advance,
Cheers,
Mark


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

A third option just occurred to me: rip a strip out of the middle, then screw and glue it back together. Probably would use pocket holes. Not sure I could get the two side straight enough without being able to run it through a tablesaw.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

I reduced the width of some 8 ft tall cabinets from 22" down to 13" deep. It's been a long time so I may not recall the "exact" details. I simply cut the new width first.
Then I made a new back from 1/4" plywood, in 1/16" on each side. I think there was a center support that was hard to use my circular saw on like did all around the perimeter. I may have used a multi-tool on that cut? Maybe just a hand saw? I donno? The top, bottom and any shelves must be all the same depth or flush on the back or it won't rest flat. Some Liquid Nails will hold to the factory finish better than any glue, but use sparingly. The 1/4" edge will show from the side, but barely. It can be stained or painted. That's why I left a 1/16" reveal. You would never know that weren't factory made at the new depth because all the face frame remained intact.... on purpose!

Taking a strip out of the center makes cutting any center supports way more difficult.


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## CV3 (Dec 15, 2021)

I cut back a tall cabinet in our bathroom. it was 24 inches deep and I reduced it to 18 inches buy cutting the back, using a circular saw. I put it on some saw horses. marked the cut. Then set the saw with the blade on the marked cut line and skewed a 1"x 4'X 8' along the edge of the saw to work as a saw guide the length of the cut. repeated that on the other side and ends with each cut. Then put on the new back. It work well.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

We just cut the back with a jigsaw, replace back and nailers, redrill adjustable shelves or other. Rescribe...


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

Great, thank you both. It sounds like cutting the back of is the typical way to go.

I hadn't even thought about the adjustable shelves. I would have figured that with a face palm when I was left with just one row of hole 🤪


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

this brings up a related question. I have cut this wood, and a jig does a nice clean cut, but probably not as square as a circular saw. Opinions ...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

We don't use skill saws out in the field on cabinet installation. A good jigsaw with good blade cuts pretty good... a lot of times we cut it a little large and belts sand all joints smooth..

It's honestly one of the most agrivating reworks in the shop or field..


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

I recently picked up a good jigsaw, but why no skill saws?

Also, what is the primary factor in not ripping off from the front? I can imagine the quality of the cut is more crucial; harder to hide errors. I was impressed with how nice a cut a jigsaw makes on this plywood.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

curiousburke said:


> I recently picked up a good jigsaw, but why no skill saws?
> 
> Also, what is the primary factor in not ripping off from the front? I can imagine the quality of the cut is more crucial; harder to hide errors. I was impressed with how nice a cut a jigsaw makes on this plywood.


If you want to use a skill saw, use it. We don't mess with the face frames...


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## danrush (Oct 16, 2017)

I would cut the back portion off, but I use a track saw. Before the intro of festools saws, we used a circular saw with a guide. It will give you about the cleanest cut possible. I've never been able to cut any sheet goods as cleanly with a jig saw as I can with a circular saw.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

danrush said:


> I would cut the back portion off, but I use a track saw. Before the intro of festools saws, we used a circular saw with a guide. It will give you about the cleanest cut possible. I've never been able to cut any sheet goods as cleanly with a jig saw as I can with a circular saw.


So how did you get the track inside regular, not European style cabinets


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## danrush (Oct 16, 2017)

Cut from the outside all around. If you mean fixed shelves or behind the toekick space, your absolutely correct with the jig saw. I was thinking the overall box. As in most things when reworking something, multiple tools and techniques are needed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Rebelwork said:


> So how did you get the track inside regular, not European style cabinets


You can make all the cuts on the exterior except the center support shelf as I mentioned above.


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

Thank you. I appreciate the debate. I should have said from the beginning that this is cabinet is European style frameless.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

No debate...Nothing to European style cabinets. Custom a little different..


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

by debate, I just meant jig vs track/skill

btw, I resonate with your quote. I change my opinion so that I can be right now and in the future, instead of being right in the past.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

The problem is we don't have everything on site to use track saws, etc..


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

If you had a tracksaw on site, would you consider taking the front of the cabinet off? 

It's still appealing to me because it doesn't change the structural integrity of the cabinet and I've done edge banding before.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I won't because it adds more work, but you seem to want to do it this way. JUST DO IT...


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

I'm just trying to figure out if there are pitfalls that I'm not thinking of due to inexperience


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

curiousburke said:


> I'm just trying to figure out if there are pitfalls that I'm not thinking of due to inexperience


It's not as easy putting the tape back on as many think, plus you have hinges ...

Do you have pictures of this cabinet?


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

yes, getting the color right on the edge band could be a bit tricky too, but the plastic color isn't perfect. Here is that cabinet:


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I would stick with the cutting the back..


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

That's probably best. I know I won't be able to put in a dadoe for the back panel. Would you just rabbet and nail/stable the back on?

Or, just attach it to the cross members (stretchers?) ?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

I didn't and here's why. 
A rabbet will "set in" the back panel about 1/4" for the plywood. It is definitely a strong means of attaching the back and squaring the box. 
However, It's difficult to do on the edge of the sides with a router because there's not enough width to support the base. That can be solved by adding a long temporary "L" shaped shelf clamped to the case. That same support can provide a guide rail for the router's base to get the rabbet at the right offset. The rounded corners left by the bit can be hand chiseled out. Then there's the center shelf that needs to be cut back that 1/4" so it's even the bottom of the rabbet. It's just a whole lot more work, if you are up to it?

OR the back can be made 1/16" less wide than the case and glued and tacked or stapled on. The center shelf will still need to be made flush with the sides, top and bottom. That effort is the same whether you rabbet or not.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

curiousburke said:


> That's probably best. I know I won't be able to put in a dadoe for the back panel. Would you just rabbet and nail/stable the back on?
> 
> Or, just attach it to the cross members (stretchers?) ?



The question is do you need the back. Do you have a pocket hole jig?


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

that does sound like a PITA, and to be avoided.
Yes, I do have a pocket hole jig. Skipping the back would also give me more depth.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

curiousburke said:


> that does sound like a PITA, and to be avoided.
> Yes, I do have a pocket hole jig. Skipping the back would also give me more depth.


The back on any cabinet is an important structural member and should not be omitted. I gave an easy method of attaching it and would do that.
The back prevents "racking", a major cause of joint failure in book shelves and large cabinets.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> The back on any cabinet is an important structural member and should not be omitted. I gave an easy method of attaching it and would do that.
> The back prevents "racking", a major cause of joint failure in book shelves and large cabinets.


He can put a 1×6 in the top , bottom and middle and move the cabinet around carefully. Once it is installed, won't make a difference...it takes two people to move a floor to ceiling pantry anyway...


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

woodnthings said:


> The back on any cabinet is an important structural member and should not be omitted. I gave an easy method of attaching it and would do that.
> The back prevents "racking", a major cause of joint failure in book shelves and large cabinets.


If the back isn't attached by being captured in a dadoe or rabbet, will it still prevent racking since the edges aren't able to take the force? I guess if I use three stretchers, top, below middle shelf, and bottom, it could be screwed and glued to those


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## curiousburke (Jan 14, 2022)

Rebelwork said:


> He can put a 1×6 in the top , bottom and middle and move the cabinet around carefully. Once it is installed, won't make a difference...it takes two people to move a floor to ceiling pantry anyway...


Ah, you beat me to it. I actually installed it myself the first time, but I certainly wish I had help


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## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

I had to knock off about six inches at the end a farmer's counter tops and cabinets [still in place] to make room for the new breed of fridges. My Fein tool was my best friend for part of the task. My jig saw handled some of the rest.

Yours would be a bit easier, because, once free of the wall, you could square up the cuts.

With the cuts square, it would be simple to cut pieces to go back in place of what was cut out. Especially if the cabinet was painted, OR the cut area goes under trim, the later case in which you may not have to install the replacement pieces.

OOPS, went off doing something else and lost the question. You want to reduce the depth, not move the cabinet.

I assume the cabinet stands out farther than those around it, if any around it. And you'll be doing everything in place. From what I gather, the beast being battled is a self supporting, floor to ceiling one. If so, the weak spot would seem the face. It's more decor than function, STIFFNERS aside. 

I'd want all the strength I could get from the original build, which, I believe, would be at the back and sides. As such, I'd be tempted to focus on the face frame area first. Remove it with that Fein tool, so you can get to the area you need to straight line and which, hopefully, could be hid by the faces being put back on.

With a GOOD jig saw and blade, you can get some pretty good cuts, with a guide and not pushing too hard.


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## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

Now that I've seen the photos, it looks like the easiest way to tackle it would be the back. In a pinch, you could install custom, very small trim to hide the lack of straight or scribbing to the wall.

Strength would not seem a problem. Stiffners across the bottoms of the shelf, on the back, would provide all the shelf support needed. I built something like this, but larger, for the neighbor, using a pre-hung door. Stiffners at the bottom back screw to 2x's. The front are already handled, I presume (if not, it, probably, needs them).


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Pretty common to use scribe on cabinets.


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## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

Not everybody knows how and, while common, it is not always necessary.



Rebelwork said:


> Pretty common to use scribe on cabinets.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

KellyCraig said:


> Not everybody knows how and, while common, it is not always necessary.


Depends on the cabinet shop and installer..


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