# Drawer Assembly and Finishing Questions



## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey all,

Getting ready to cut and assemble all of the drawer boxes for the kitchen cabinets I am building. Have some questions about the order in which to assemble and finish. I will be doing half blind dovetails on them.

I have read a number of posts indicating that a preferable method is to finish drawer parts (sides and bottoms) separately. Actually I think I read that it is preferable to finish the drawer sides after they are assembled while the drawer bottom is out or removed. That makes perfect sense to me. But I have also read in some of the same posts that it is helpful to have the drawer bottom inserted while assembling the sides to assist with squaring the box. That also makes perfect sense but leads to confusion for my smaller than average brain. 

As mentioned above, I am making the assumption that the drawer box (with bottom removed) should be finished after it is assembled to allow for finish sanding etc. But if it also helps to have the bottom installed for squaring purposes during assembly then how would one finish the sides and the bottom separately? My guess (and this is only a guess) is that the drawer bottom should be in place for the assembly and squaring of the sides but not fastened at that time. Once the glue has dried I am assuming the bottom panel is slid back out so that both can be finished separately. Then, once all parts are finished, the bottom is slid back into the drawer box and fastened in place permanently.

I am probably way over thinking something that is extremely simple but I have a lot of drawers to make and I wanted to make sure I asked before I got myself in trouble while in the midst of the process.

Thanks all.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would lightly sand the inside of the parts of the drawer box. Then assemble the box. When you assemble the drawer, square the box, and let the glue dry. 

Then lightly sand the outside of the box and the loose bottom. Then, finish the outsides and inside of the box and the loose bottom. If the bottom is 1/4" ply no need to finish the underside of the bottom. 

When all the parts are completely finished, slide in the bottom, and square the drawer and fasten the bottom to the back.











 









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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I would lightly sand the inside of the parts of the drawer box. Then assemble the box. When you assemble the drawer, square the box, and let the glue dry.
> 
> Then lightly sand the outside of the box and the loose bottom. Then, finish the outsides and inside of the box and the loose bottom. If the bottom is 1/4" ply no need to finish the underside of the bottom.
> 
> ...


Ah....thank you sir.......so the bottom is not really needed for the initial glue up of the boxes. Got it....

I believe you mentioned that you spray your stuff. I don't trust my expertise enough yet to spray the drawers. I've sprayed everything else but I think I am going to brush all the drawer sides. Do you do a light (maybe 320 grit) sanding in between coats on the drawer sides? I am think a 320 grit sanding sponge would do the trick? Kind of hard to get all the way into the corner without scrathcing the adjoining side. 

My plan is to alternately brush the insides and outsides of the boxes (one coat on the inside then one on the outside) until I have the required number of coats, rather than finsihing the insides and then moving to the outsides to avoid any unsightly build up lines on the edges.

Does that approach sound reasonable?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would spray. You didn't say what you are using, but I would only spray lacquer or waterbase polyurethane. Since I use WB polyurethane, I use 320x in between coats, and it takes very little to knock off the nibs. 












 







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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I would spray. You didn't say what you are using, but I would only spray lacquer or waterbase polyurethane. Since I use WB polyurethane, I use 320x in between coats, and it takes very little to knock off the nibs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I know. I should spray but I am just not confident enough yet in my ability to get the drawers right. I actually thought about spraying each drawer side separately before assembly but then you run into glue-up issues unless you mask each joint which is another big pain. So this time I'll probabaly stick with brushing and get more daring on my next project which will be a couple of rustic pine dressers for the cabin.

By the way. I am using General Finishers WB. Used it on the entire cabinet project thus far. Love the way it's turning out.


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> I would spray. You didn't say what you are using, but I would only spray lacquer or waterbase polyurethane. Since I use WB polyurethane, I use 320x in between coats, and it takes very little to knock off the nibs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Do you use an HVLP system or standard air set up? Sometime down the road I would like to set up a modest system and have no clue where to start.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Tom5151 said:


> Yeah I know. I should spray but I am just not confident enough yet in my ability to get the drawers right. I actually thought about spraying each drawer side separately before assembly but then you run into glue-up issues unless you mask each joint which is another big pain. So this time I'll probabaly stick with brushing and get more daring on my next project which will be a couple of rustic pine dressers for the cabin.
> 
> By the way. I am using General Finishers WB. Used it on the entire cabinet project thus far. Love the way it's turning out.


Spraying is really one of the easiest things to do in woodworking. It just seems to impose a mental problem for many people. 

Drawer sides and backs are one of the finest places to learn. These sides and backs are not visible in the finished product, therefore if there does occur some minor error it is not readily seen.

This is especially true if you are using lacquer, which is very forgiving.

George


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Agree with George on spraying........its sort of a required skill on drwrs.best,BW


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

*I Hear Ya*

I hear you guys. I really do. I am spraying waterbased poly. Never sprayed before until this project. Using an HVLP system. Have sprayed all of the carcass parts and doors etc, and they came out great. But not ready for drawer boxes yet. I tried spraying the the face frames and they were a mess so ended up brushing them. I am not really in a hurry so I don't mind brushing. I plan to practice on other things so I can get to the point where I am proficient. Just not on this project just yet:no:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> I hear you guys. I really do. I am spraying waterbased poly. Never sprayed before until this project. Using an HVLP system. Have sprayed all of the carcass parts and doors etc, and they came out great. But not ready for drawer boxes yet. I tried spraying the the face frames and they were a mess so ended up brushing them. I am not really in a hurry so I don't mind brushing. I plan to practice on other things so I can get to the point where I am proficient. Just not on this project just yet:no:


Spraying WB poly with an HVLP gun/system can be very tricky. It will get wetter than it looks. I would recommend using a lot of light. Use whatever you can assemble or set up to get light on what you're spraying, as with HVLP, you can't see much of an output. It's very deceiving.

While spraying try to get a "glare" on your path to see what it looks like. You might just experiment with several thin applications. You can't lay it on heavy.












 









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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> Spraying WB poly with an HVLP gun/system can be very tricky. It will get wetter than it looks. I would recommend using a lot of light. Use whatever you can assemble or set up to get light on what you're spraying, as with HVLP, you can't see much of an output. It's very deceiving.
> 
> While spraying try to get a "glare" on your path to see what it looks like. You might just experiment with several thin applications. You can't lay it on heavy.
> 
> ...


Yes I think that's exactly what happened with the face frames. It looked like I was spraying thin coats but I think it was just too much material coming out. And I am sure my technique was bad. Especially for multiple drawer face frames. Going into tight corners twice was not helping. I just need better technique and while I am using a lot of light where I spray, I am sure I would also benefit from even more. Part of my issue is the space I am spraying in. Just don't have a lot of room so I can't hang parts. I am basically propping things up on paint triangles or on the points of finsish nails driven through blocks of wood.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

*OK OK...Ya Got Me*

Okay guys,

After re-reading everything here, I guess my biggest issue if fear of screwing it up. I am going to make a few dummy drawer boxes from some scrap material this weekend and practice spraying them before I try the real things.

So.......tell me how best to approach this. I can't hang the boxes. I have about an 8 X 8 surface where I can spray. Should I have them laying flat so I am looking down into the box or vertical so I am looking through them? Spray the inside first? Ouside first? Corners first? What about the top and bottom edges? Do you spray both inside and out and let it dry? Like I said guys. A little lost on this for some reason. 

By the way the boxes are 21 inches long by 19 inches wide so i don;t really have a lot of room to manuever. Pretent that i don;t know anything and let me know step by step how you guys would approach it.

Thanks


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Here's what I do. If there will be a false drawer front, I set the box on the front or rear of the box. If the front of the box is the ultimate drawer front, I'll set it on the back.

I'll set the spray pattern to be wide enough to cover the depth of a side. I'll start at one spot in the center of a side and just rotate the spray around inside the opening like a second hand on a clock. I try to stay as perpendicular to the surface as possible. After coating I spray the three exposed pieces. After that just a light mist on the top edge, as it has already picked up some coating.

When done, I will spray the outside of the front and back, but in reality they are not seen. I prefer to do those as when delivery and installation takes place the client has the opportunity to view their product, and I don't like them seeing anything that's unfinished.

If I have a lot of drawers from a sheet of 1/2" ply, I'll rip all the sides from the sheet. I'll figure sizes to max out the width of a sheet. Then glue a solid wood edge on each piece. Then dress the wood edging flush to the ply. Then finish both sides of the pieces. When done, cut the fronts and backs and machine the groove and rabbets where applicable. I don't usually get any damage or scratching from doing the machining. That way once the drawer goes together it's done, except for finishing the bottom.












 









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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> Here's what I do. If there will be a false drawer front, I set the box on the front or rear of the box. If the front of the box is the ultimate drawer front, I'll set it on the back.
> 
> I'll set the spray pattern to be wide enough to cover the depth of a side. I'll start at one spot in the center of a side and just rotate the spray around inside the opening like a second hand on a clock. I try to stay as perpendicular to the surface as possible. After coating I spray the three exposed pieces. After that just a light mist on the top edge, as it has already picked up some coating.
> 
> ...


Hey C-man,

As always, just exactly what I needed to know. Thank you very much.

I am assuming you have the box on some type of lazy susan platform so you can spin it while spraying? Or do you just walk around the peice as you spray? 

The second method you use for sides made out of ply seems like it might be a better way for me to start. I have 12 drawers so 48 individual peices plus 12 bottoms. I am not using ply but the principal is the same for solid wood I would think. I am wondering if I shouldn't just machine and cut all my stock, finish them as individual peices, and then go and cut all my dovetails and make grooves for the bottom panels. I'll have between 3 and 5 coats of ploy on everything so hopefully I wont get to many scratches.

I'll try the first way you suggested and see how that goes. If it's not happening I may go with method #2.

Thanks again:thumbsup:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> I am assuming you have the box on some type of lazy susan platform so you can spin it while spraying? Or do you just walk around the peice as you spray?
> Thanks again:thumbsup:



I don't rotate the box. It stays still and I run the gun around the inside. If you prefinish the parts make sure your machining removes the finish for glue areas. I've never had good luck with masking off the areas.












 









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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I don't rotate the box. It stays still and I run the gun around the inside. If you prefinish the parts make sure your machining removes the finish for glue areas. I've never had good luck with masking off the areas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With some of the bigger boxes I can probabaly get the gun and hose inside to do that. For the narrower boxes it won't fit. Such a dilemma....LOL........I am also thinking now that I'll likely need to do some finish sanding of the dovetails on the ouside face of the boxes once assembled so that will for sure affect the finish. I guess I could spray the insides prior to assembly, assemble, sand and then spray the outside surface but I am sure to get overspay on the inside that way. 

Oh well. I'll figure this out........lol......... Thank you again for all of you patience and advice.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> Here's what I do. If there will be a false drawer front, I set the box on the front or rear of the box. If the front of the box is the ultimate drawer front, I'll set it on the back.
> 
> I'll set the spray pattern to be wide enough to cover the depth of a side. I'll start at one spot in the center of a side and just rotate the spray around inside the opening like a second hand on a clock. I try to stay as perpendicular to the surface as possible. After coating I spray the three exposed pieces. After that just a light mist on the top edge, as it has already picked up some coating.
> 
> ...


Hey c-man. 

Well I played a round a little this past weekend and I think I can make it work.

Basically what I did was as you described above. Some drawers will have false fronts and others will not.

For the ones with the false fronts I stood them on their front side. Sprayed all four inside surfaces. When done with the inside surfaces I immediately coated the 3 exposed outside surfaces and then immediately misted the top edge. At this point they can't be moved. So they dried standing up vertically. I figure I can probabaly do 5 or 6 at a time this way given the room I have to work with. I didn't bother coating the bottom edge or front surface as neither will be seen. 

For the pullouts, all sides can be seen. So I basically followed the above process except this time I stood the boxes on their rear side, waited for the boxes to dry, then coated the rear exterior surface with several light coats. Again, bottom edges were not coated. Bottom edges have 2 coats of sanding sealer but no poly.

Does that sound about right?

After lots of experimentation I realized that I need to set the material volume control very very low and my air pressure to max pressure to get the proper thin coats I need. 

One other question. I think you mentioned you use Parks Pro Finershers Poly. I have been using their sanding sealer as well. Is there any reason not to spray their sanding sealer?

Thanks


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> For the pullouts, all sides can be seen. So I basically followed the above process except this time I stood the boxes on their rear side, waited for the boxes to dry, then coated the rear exterior surface with several light coats. Again, bottom edges were not coated. Bottom edges have 2 coats of sanding sealer but no poly.
> 
> Does that sound about right?
> 
> ...


For doing pull outs to finish all sides, Set the box on the bottom edge with a 3/4" spacer on a diagonal at each corner (away from the corner) to raise the box up. Do this if you're spraying on a table top. You can set up two sawhorses and lay out two 2x4's and line up some boxes. The diagonal spacers only have to be minimally wide, like 1/2" - 3/4". Use them on the 2x4's also, just be careful not to bump the work.

An easy way to experiment with air pressure and fluid/pattern, is to use cardboard as a sample. The sealer works OK, and is easier to sand that the topcoat, but I just use the topcoat. Spraying the drawers set up like this minimizes the dust landing on the wet surface. Actually, the in between sandings shouldn't take that much because of it. I try to spray surfaces vertical not horizontal. Spraying horizontally, gives opportunity to "puddle" or lay on too much, which does not produce a smooth application.












 









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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> For doing pull outs to finish all sides, Set the box on the bottom edge with a 3/4" spacer on a diagonal at each corner (away from the corner) to raise the box up. Do this if you're spraying on a table top. You can set up two sawhorses and lay out two 2x4's and line up some boxes. The diagonal spacers only have to be minimally wide, like 1/2" - 3/4". Use them on the 2x4's also, just be careful not to bump the work.
> 
> An easy way to experiment with air pressure and fluid/pattern, is to use cardboard as a sample. The sealer works OK, and is easier to sand that the topcoat, but I just use the topcoat. Spraying the drawers set up like this minimizes the dust landing on the wet surface. Actually, the in between sandings shouldn't take that much because of it. I try to spray surfaces vertical not horizontal. Spraying horizontally, gives opportunity to "puddle" or lay on too much, which does not produce a smooth application.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the additional advice. I will make the adjustments you suggested for spraying the pullouts. 

I am going to try spraying the Pro Finishers sanding sealer again. I tried spraying early on with the carcasses and got a lot or orange peel so believe it or not I ended up brushing two coats of sealer for 13 boxes. Big pain and had to sand extra to get all the brush marks out. I initially thought maybe it wasn't sprayable since the none of the directions or data sheets had anything to say about spray application. Now I am thinking the reason for the orange peel was that I was simply spraying too much material. Now that I finally figured out the proper adjustment for spraying the topcoat I am going to experiment with the same settings on some scrap ply with the sanding sealer.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

For additional durability their catalyst - product # 137194 will add durability to the media. See the MSDS.












 









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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

*Thank You*

Thanks to the folks who offered their help, advice and encouragement to go ahead and spray the darn drawers. They came out great. I used WB poly, HVLP sprayer and no sealer. I was suprised how well it went. The trick was high pressure and very low volume...very light coats.....I'd post pictures but honestly, WB poly on natural unstained pine doesn't really show much in photos..


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Tom,I treat spraying alot like my reloading.........that is,keep very accurate notes.Material,mixes,gun setting,temp/humidity.It makes it so easy if you're not spraying everday......just check the notes.

Keep an eye out for cheapo fold up stands.......they're great for sprying.I built a rather HD spinner out of dumpster parts,its nice because it keeps me upstream from our portable booth exhaust.Dedicated fold up tables work.Tape and some paper is great for new fresh/clean worksurface.Good luck,BW


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