# Carbide Tip Lathe Tools



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I have been watching a few videos of turning with carbide tip tools. Do any of you fellows have these tools? How do you like them? What are the bar stock made of, cold roll steel or other?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I bought the 3 main styles about a month ago or so at around $100 each. At the time, neither WoodCraft nor Rockler had the set of 3. They cut real well but takes a while to get used to them - maybe a couple of hours of practice. They dig in really easy so you must use a really light touch and try to extend the tip as little as possible over the tool rest. 
I ;prefer the standard bowl gouge and use the carbide tips for difficult areas to reach. They are scrapers with a small cutting area (small tip).They have their place. 
The standard bowl gouge with a hollow grind cuts faster smoother and is easier to control. 
I am new to carbide tipped tools and so I am not an expert on them.


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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

CARBON? Did you mean Carbide?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I assume he did since I never heard of carbon tipped tools.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I was wondering whether he meant "carbon steel" tools, which preceded high speed steel.

Some companies make high speed steel replaceable cutters in various shapes (e.g., mushroom), like the ones by Sorby.

-> My assumption was that he meant carbide tips.

Carbide Turning Tools:

I have a set of three Rockler full size carbide turning tools: Square Radius, Round, and Diamond. I use square tips on the square radius holder. It is a very close fit, good enough, but not perfect.

I wish I had bought the Easy Wood Tools models instead. Why? Because in addition to the standard carbide cutters, Easy Wood Tools also makes their patented negative rake cutters that fit the same tool handles. Those patented negative rake cutters are not available elsewhere, and won't fit my Rockler tools.

The handles for carbide tips are usually cut to match the back bevel of the carbide tip and give it support. That means that you cannot fit a round tip in a square handle or vice-versa. You must have the matching handle for the carbide tip. (The one exception: the square tip is a close fit in the square radius handle and I use it. Note that the square radius tip will _not_ fit in a square handle, though.)

Replacement carbide cutters are available from third parties at a much lower cost. I have used AZ Carbide in the past and recommend them.

The manufacturers want you to think of carbide tips as disposable and replaceable, but you can sharpen standard carbide tips on your own by flattening the backs on diamond stones.

I switch between high speed steel and carbide turning tools without concern for some nonexistent tradition. Some days, the carbide seems to do better, other days, the traditional turning tools. Carbide tips are definitely helpful when turning plastics (acrylics) as I do for pens.


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## Dave McCann (Jun 21, 2020)

BigJim said:


> What are the bar stock made of, cold roll steel or other?


Alloy steel is a better choice over cold rolled, but cold rolled may work for you. I have both types of shank materials in my tool arsenal.
Cost issue is variable depending on where one decides to purchase. Amazon has many choices, one of which is; Wood Turning Tools Rougher Carbide Tipped Lathe Chisel Tool Bar 19.68 Inches With 14mm Straigt Edge Square Carbide Insert for Wood Hobbyist or DIY or Carpenter - - Amazon.com

Scroll down on the Amazon page and you can add two more tools to complete the set.








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Another option is set of tools with only one handle. Easy enough to make a wood handle for each tool to eliminate the need to change the handle from tool to tool. BEAMNOVA Carbide Tipped Wood Turning Tool Set Wood Lathe Tools and Accessories Boring Bar Holder with Indexable Carbide Inserts Replaceable Tips Woodworking Detailer Hollower Rougher - - Amazon.com








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The best (cheapest priced) source I have found for inserts is by ordering from E-bay sellers. Specifically; xttdesign on eBay They usually have a much wider selection of insert sizes than what is currently being shown. Buying in packs of 10 inserts keeps the cost per insert quite reasonable. Typically $2.00 to $2.60 each depending on size and style.

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Some tools which I made myself using cold rolled bar stock.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Kudzu said:


> CARBON? Did you mean Carbide?


Yes, I did mean to write Carbide, thanks for the catch. This getting old has it's draw backs. lol


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Dave McCann said:


> Alloy steel is a better choice over cold rolled, but cold rolled may work for you. I have both types of shank materials in my tool arsenal.
> Cost issue is variable depending on where one decides to purchase. Amazon has many choices, one of which is; Wood Turning Tools Rougher Carbide Tipped Lathe Chisel Tool Bar 19.68 Inches With 14mm Straigt Edge Square Carbide Insert for Wood Hobbyist or DIY or Carpenter - - Amazon.com
> 
> Scroll down on the Amazon page and you can add two more tools to complete the set.
> ...


Your tools look great to me, I appreciate the information.

Tony brought up a point I hadn't thought about. If these tips are harder to use than regular HHS tools, maybe I should not try to make some of them. I am really struggling with turning, I just can't get the hang of it. I bought the book that Tony suggested and right away I saw one major thing I am doing wrong. I am presenting my tool way to low to the piece I am turning. After reading some of the information and watching a few more videos, I see I do need to raise the tool rest up and cut higher. 

From the videos I have seen, the fellows using the carbide cutters just seemed to flow through the work like it was butter, I never saw a catch or a run with one of the carbide tip tools. If they are harder to use, I may need to rethink these tools. I will go ahead and make at least two of them and see how they work though.

I have seem videos of where fellows made their carbide tools from all sort of things, even from shock absorbers. One fellow bought on if the pry bars that had the screw driver handle on it and made a cutter from it.

I wanted to know what the bar stock should be so I don't spend time to make a tool and it not work worth a cuss.

I really do appreciate all of your help, time and information, thank all of you.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Carbide tipped turning tools were originally designed and expected to be used as scrapers, not cutters. 

When you use a cutting tool, you generally ride the bevel, then raise the handle until the sharp edge of the tool cuts fine ribbons of wood from your turning. The general consensus is that you will get a smooth, sanding-not-needed surface with this approach.

With carbide tipped tools, you generally approach the turning at the mid-point with the tip presented horizontally (flat) to the turning. The tip scrapes shavings and sawdust from your turning. This approach may leave a rougher surface that needs touch-up sanding. 

Some people use carbide tipped tools as cutters, but it is less common. I do that sometimes, and carbide tips can yield some amazing ribbons. 

Carbide is durable. It starts out sharp. For me carbide spends the bulk of its time where it is "not ideal, sharp enough to cut, but not quite dull enough to replace yet." 

High speed steel can be sharpened to be sharper than carbide, but it won't hold its edge as long as carbide before resharpening is needed.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Carbide tipped turning tools were originally designed and expected to be used as scrapers, not cutters.
> 
> When you use a cutting tool, you generally ride the bevel, then raise the handle until the sharp edge of the tool cuts fine ribbons of wood from your turning. The general consensus is that you will get a smooth, sanding-not-needed surface with this approach.
> 
> ...


This is some good information, I really do appreciate it. I have had good luck using a scrapper, so looks like I will be making a couple of these carbide tools. I am excited to get back in the shop and give it a try as soon as the effects of this last virus shot lets up on me.


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## Dave McCann (Jun 21, 2020)

BigJim said:


> Tony brought up a point I hadn't thought about. If these tips are harder to use than regular HHS tools, maybe I should not try to make some of them. I am really struggling with turning, I just can't get the hang of it.


IMHO carbide and traditional tools each have their place. Many bowls have been turned using only carbide tools. Using both types of tools builds a greater understanding of which tool to use for a specific task.

Just a couple details on insert support should you decide to make you own shanks.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Dave McCann said:


> IMHO carbide and traditional tools each have their place. Many bowls have been turned using only carbide tools. Using both types of tools builds a greater understanding of which tool to use for a specific task.
> 
> Just a couple details on insert support should you decide to make you own shanks.
> View attachment 431591


Thanks Dave, I saw one fellows carbide square tool where the tip was sitting at a angle instead of square. I thought to myself he needed to make a stop to keep the tip square. I had planned to make the stop at the same angle as the tip underside, but square like in your illustration will be much easier. Thanks again, that is very helpful.


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## ToolsOnaWall (Apr 8, 2020)

I have a set of Easy Wood medium size carbide tools (round, square, diamond). I got them for pen turning (my intro to the lathe). I've been using them for years and I really like them for turning wood, they don't work well with most acrylics. The round and square tools are a couple of my go-to tools. I mark the cutting heads with a permanent marker so I call tell how I've rotated the cutting head.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

If youre making your own tools, dont sweat what steel you use, honestly its all the same for this application. Bout the only benefit youll get from using something like 4140ph over 1018 (mild) steel is the 4140 wont scratch if you drop your tool. Changing the alloy of steel doesnt noticeably change the elasticity, you wont get a stiffer tool by going with one over another. You will change how far you can deflect the steel before it goes into plastic deformation, but if your tools are going in plastic deformation modes while youre turning you seriously ****ed up and probably broke your lathe anyways


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

epicfail48 said:


> If youre making your own tools, dont sweat what steel you use, honestly its all the same for this application. Bout the only benefit youll get from using something like 4140ph over 1018 (mild) steel is the 4140 wont scratch if you drop your tool. Changing the alloy of steel doesnt noticeably change the elasticity, you wont get a stiffer tool by going with one over another. You will change how far you can deflect the steel before it goes into plastic deformation, but if your tools are going in plastic deformation modes while youre turning you seriously ****ed up and probably broke your lathe anyways


Thanks, that is good to know. I was worried that some of the bar might bend. I will post when I get them finished. I am sure I ill have more questions.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I remember way back when, when I was experimenting with bowl turning and hollow forms. There were very few books around on woodturning. 
I want to a machine shop and told them I wanted a long piece of square bar stock about 5' long or so. I dont remember if it was 1" or less. I wanted one end to have a slot cut out horizontally and wide enough to fit a machinist lathe tool bit. And directly above the slot I wanted it tapped so I could put a screw in it to hold the tool bit. Damn, that was heavy but worked OK for hollow forms. 
Then I met some woodturners and that opened my eyes to a whole new world. 
Where there is a will, there is a way.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

BigJim said:


> Thanks, that is good to know. I was worried that some of the bar might bend. I will post when I get them finished. I am sure I ill have more questions.


So long as the bar is thick enough to handle the regular forces of use, nothing to worry about. If you bend a 3/8" bar of mild steel while turning, like i said, your lathe and possibly you are already dead


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## holtzdreher (Jul 20, 2016)

I heard somewhere, that a newer shape carbide cutter is made for turners that actually works less like a scraper and more like a traditional chisel, but don't recall when or where they are made. BTW, I still use two old carbon steel tools in addition to my HSS. They have some slight advantages and disadvantages.


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## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

when I'm doing acrylics, the carbide trumps HSS every time. Generally, I can go straight from the lathe to the job with carbide. For everything else, I have a lot of HSS and I love it.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

@BigJim 

How is that book working out for you? It appears to have been added to and changed over the years.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Tony, I have learned a lot from the book, still have a good ways to go yet but now I feel better about trying. I appreciate the suggestion.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Glad it is helping. Some of the older videos were really pretty good also. I learned at a good time. The earlier wood turning symposiums were great for learning also. Back then you could get up close and personal. It wasn't so much as what the demonstrator was saying as he was turning as it was also about watching their body motion. Like when turning a bowl with a long handled gouge and you have to make really delicate cuts, you rest the handle on your side/hip and use your hip to steer the blade. This will allow for a much finer motion than your arm just hanging in space.
Anyway, someday it will all kick in at once. You will just be turning a piece and for some mysterious reason all will go just right.
As for now, I am slowly re-learning. I need to get a chain saw, splitting maul and find a supply of logs. Usually after a storm.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

How long do the tips last?

Are they all the interchangeable (by function) or do they vary from manufacturer to manufacturer?


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## MountainGuardian (Nov 18, 2019)

I have a few carbide tip tools that I use on the lathe, but mine are just old pieces that I cut from an old carbide table saw blade. I just drilled holes in them and bolted them to various handles for some basic lathe cutting tools. I also have one mounted to a slide vice that I can run back and forth and make short dowels quickly, easily and accurately from sticks and tree branches. I use them for holding beam sections together on bridges and buildings rather than spending a bunch on metal fixtures.

Carbide has it's uses, though for the price and for general working I personally prefer diamond tools. Though the carbides do have the advantage of being sharpenable as long as you have diamond sharpening blades and stones as I do. Whereas diamond tools that doesn't work...


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Tony B said:


> How long do the tips last?
> 
> Are they all the interchangeable (by function) or do they vary from manufacturer to manufacturer?


I can't answer the first question exactly. How long tips last depends on what you are turning, how you turn, etc. For me, carbide tips start out very very sharp, but that doesn't last long. After that, they are sharp enough to cut, but not as ideally sharp as you want. That lasts a long time. Near the end, you begin to wonder if the "problem" is your turning or the tip is not sharp enough, so you rotate the tip and voila! - it cuts like magic again. I don't use the diamond "detailer" much, so it is rarely rotated. 

You want a real number, so I'll try to help. I sometimes turn hard plastics (like acrylic) for pens. Pen blanks start out at 3/4 x 3/4 x 5 inches, and I turn them down to pen size (duh!). If I use nothing but carbide, I can usually turn one plastic pen before I feel a need to rotate to a fresh edge. With "inlace acrylester", which is rock hard and brittle, I may rotate once or twice while turning the pen. Plastic pen blanks are slow to turn, so that might be 30 minutes of turning with two carbide tools (square radius and round). With wood pens, I don't use carbide as often, but I can probably do at least two or three pens in a typical hardwood before rotating. 

I keep new tips on hand, but rarely use them. I resharpen the same carbide tips again and again by flattening the backs on diamond stones. Because resharpening is so quick and easy, I don't hesitate much about rotating a tip. 

Carbide tips of a given shape come in different sizes. A given size is likely to be common across multiple brands, and the selection of sizes seems fairly standardized. Mini tools and pen tools have smaller carbide tips than the full size ones. 

Arizona Carbide is a third-party carbide tip seller. Their website has a compatibility chart. If you look at that chart, you will see that there are a variety of tip sizes, but a given tip usually matches multiple brands of carbide turning tools. The chart sucks - you must click the "next page" icon in the lower left corner of the chart to see it one page at a time.


You are being redirected...


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks David
I had bought Rockler. Long story, but didnt realize it was Rockler brand till I got home. I haven't been in a Rockler store in 30 years I think. Crazy huh? $350 worth of gouges and didn't even look at the brand name. It was a long day.


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## Dave McCann (Jun 21, 2020)

MountainGuardian said:


> Carbide has it's uses, though for the price and for general working I personally prefer diamond tools.


Are your diamond tools ones that you have made yourself or are these purchased tools? Please share some photos and sources for these tools or the raw materials to duplicate them. Thanks


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hey Ed, could you post some information or photos of this:
Quote " I also have one mounted to a slide vice that I can run back and forth and make short dowels quickly, easily and accurately from sticks and tree branches. I use them for holding beam sections together on bridges and buildings rather than spending a bunch on metal fixtures." end Quote.

That sounds interesting.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Tony B said:


> Thanks David
> I had bought Rockler. Long story, but didnt realize it was Rockler brand till I got home. I haven't been in a Rockler store in 30 years I think. Crazy huh? $350 worth of gouges and didn't even look at the brand name. It was a long day.


I have three Rockler full size carbide tools: Round, Square-Radius, and Diamond. Rockler also sells a Square and a hook-shaped tool for Hollowing.

I chose the Square-Radius instead of the Square because I took the time at the store to check them for fit: A Square carbide tip will fit "okay" in the Square-Radius tool, but a Square-Radius carbide tip will NOT fit in the Square tool, period. 

I chose the Rockler tools because I liked how they felt in my hands. As I have said before, I wish I had spent the extra money and bought Easy Wood tools instead, because they take patented negative rake carbide tips as well as the standard flat ones. Apparently the negative rake tips don't fit the Rockler tools. I have NOT tested that to see for myself.

I don't know who makes Rockler's carbide tools. I found the Savannah tools sold by Peachtree and they look so similar, they must come from the same factory. Savannah Carbide Tools

While writing this post and collecting the link, I noticed that they sell the Easy Woods negative rake cutters to go in their tools. When I went back to the AZ Carbide chart and looked at round carbide tips, the Rockler and Savannah tools take different part numbers. Dang!!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh well. Ain't that the way life works.


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## MountainGuardian (Nov 18, 2019)

BigJim said:


> Hey Ed, could you post some information or photos of this:
> Quote " I also have one mounted to a slide vice that I can run back and forth and make short dowels quickly, easily and accurately from sticks and tree branches. I use them for holding beam sections together on bridges and buildings rather than spending a bunch on metal fixtures." end Quote.
> 
> That sounds interesting.


Sure, take me a little bit to find the pics of it in operation, crazy simple setup really.


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## smoke4320 (7 mo ago)

There are multiple sizes of carbide tips
For squares anywhere from 10 mm to 16 mm wide. 11 mm or 12 mm most common.
Height usually 2 mm or 2.5mm 
Rounds 8.5 or 122 most common and same 2 or 2.5 mm height. 
Find out what yours are write down the go t amazon and get 10 inserts for $20 to $25.00
And if you sharpen/ hone with a diamond or cbn card when du you will have bits for a long long time


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