# How big is big enough?



## Joshua Barney (Jun 28, 2014)

Hey guys, I just started woodworking, but I've hit it pretty hard and heavy. If I'm awake and not at my regular job, I'm in my garage working on projects. I'm getting the tools I need as quickly as I can afford since I'm kinda poor, but I'm realizing that I better add a dust collector pretty dang soon! I'm using one space of a three car garage, how big of a dust collector do I need? One hp, one and a half, two?? My shop vac is five hp so I can't imagine that one hp would be enough, but I'm pretty new to this so I just don't know. Could you guys help me out here? What size do I need and what are some good and not too expensive brands? I am making mostly wood furniture right now so I have a TS, a planer, a jointer, a miter, a router table, a bench sander, and in a week or two I'll be adding a bandsaw. I have collected quite a few tools in the three or four months I've been woodworking, but I think now it's time I "clean up my act!"


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

You can't really compare your shop vac to a real dust collector. A dust collector moves a large volume of air to suspend the particles. A shop vac moves a much smaller volume of air but moves it faster. 

Do you have a 220V plug available? If so then go with 2hp or larger. If not, you'll be limited to a DC below 2 hp. I have a 2 hand it serves me well. It's big enough to branch several times and keep most of my machines hooked up and then use blast gates to direct the air flow to the right machine.


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## chipslinger (Oct 20, 2013)

So far I just tape household return air filters to two cheap box fans suspended in the garage and hook the shop vac to whatever tool I'm running. I scored an extra vac off of craigslist for dirt cheap and keep it hooked to my ras and ts as they are stationary. I know it's not fancy but for now it's been doing the trick. I think grizzly sells a pretty inexpensive dust collector. and don't forget clist. I see the collectors on there a lot! good luck.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm pretty sure you will get all sorts of answers and can drive yourself crazy with all the information and opinions out there. By the way, the actual DC is the first stop on this road. Wait until you start looking at hoses and fittings. 

I see DCs in the same class as my 1.5 hp griz come up on ebay for reasonably cheap (200 or less). Given that you can spend >$1K on a DC and still not have even close to the best, I'd say start cheap and see how it goes.

I'm about 2/3 into the DC process. I acquired an older Grizzly 1.5 HP a while ago for dirt cheap. It's not even close to the top of the line but I'm beginning to think it will more than suffice using 4" hoses. It does pretty darn good job of picking up the dust. I had to mod my machines to have 4" ports. Built a Thiel style separator which works really well but may go to a true cyclone.

Oh, and that 5 HP shop vac - unless it runs on 220, it most assuredly does not generate 5 HP - it would have to pull a bit over 31 AMPs. They probably say something like "peak HP" which is utter BS. Maybe it pulls 31 AMPs at startup surge but that still above code for 110VAC outlets. I'd guess it pulls around 10 amps which would put it around 1.5 HP. The marvels of modern marketing.


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## jacko9 (Dec 29, 2012)

*Dust Collection*

I used a shop vac for years and dust masks that really didn't work. Finally I decided that my health was worth it so after some research, I contacted Oneida Air Systems and bought their V-3000 system.

I also purchased the Festool Duct Extractor for my sanders and other Festool power tools.

Jack


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## Joshua Barney (Jun 28, 2014)

Thanks guys, at least I know a basic direction to start now. I will look for 1.5 to 2hp so I don't have to have 220. I will try to find a good deal cause it looks like I'm going to spend quite a bit on add on's like seperaters, hoses, filters and stuff. Seems like everything I buy, I need 10 more things! Lol


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

Yeah, I can see spending easily $300 on DC accessories. By the way, Rockler is having a 25% off sale on all DC items.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

Don't forget about the HF 2Hp 120 volt DC, a lot of us have that and like it. Good price too. :thumbsup: On sale right now for $209.00 then you can find a 20% or 25% off coupon and it is a bargain.


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

Here's a calculator to help you determine your needs...

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodwor...dust-collection/figure-dust-collection-needs/

...and here's a comparison of some popular home shop dust collectors...

www.portercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

It makes a big difference on how big and how many chips you want to suck. If the particals are fine from sanding or even saw dust from a table saw, they move easier than chips from a planer.

I may be wrong on my thinking, but if you use oversized ridged pipe, the heavyer chips will lay in the bottom of the pipe (due to less air volume moving), and eventually the pipe will collect chips in the bottom which will actually increase the the air flow due to smaller area in the pipe. But the negitive side/downside is its not smooth and larger chips won't slide over the particals laying on the bottom of the pipe. I may not have explained this very well, sorry. 

When I layed out my dust pipes (solid 6" pvc) I left them loose, not fastened to the wall or ceiling. If I get a clog, I can wiggle or shake the pipes with the collector turned on and the clog will work loose. I occasionally get a plug but only when planning a 13 inch board and the chips are curly. Other wise I seldom have problems. Eventually I may get a bigger motor/vacume, but I won't have to buy new pipes since they are oversize now.

Part of my problem with my planner is my chips are sucked upward about 8 ft, on top of the ceiling, which takes more power and is harder to do. sawdust from my table saw (or equivelant size dust is never a problem.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

Good point - there is a minimum airflow speed need to the move different sized chips. That's why a planer needs higher airflow than a bandsaw or tablesaw, for example. There is an inverse relationship between duct size and speed - the bigger the duct, the lower the speed. You need a higher CFM to get the same speed in a larger duct. This is where the details get very complex and depend on specific DCs/CFMs/type of piping/number of turns/blah blah blah. PhD in dust collection doesn't sound so far fetched anymore. I kind of glazed over at that point and decided to stick with 4" pipes for now with my 1.5 HP Griz DC. It seems to work pretty well but I don't have a planer. yet. We shall see with that one.


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## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

Let me add my .02

There are two things to consider in dust collection, which are not mutually exclusive: 1) general shop neatness and 2) health and safety, which, as I get older, has become a higher priority.

Dust collectors can move a lot of air with relatively low static pressure vacuum). They're essential for sucking up the large chips that jointers and planers produce, which need a lot of air flow, which is why their dust ports are typically at least 4". 

Manufacturer's claims of air flow should be taken with a grain of salt (or more with Harbor Freight). Don't look at horsepower, but look at amps: there's a pretty good correlation between the amps a collector draws and air flow. Also, a larger impeller can move more air than a smaller diameter one. Consider getting a 240 volt supply in your shop/garage- a 120 volt dust collector even at 20 amps (which would need a dedicated circuit anyway) is marginal.

Due to its size, a dust collector is cumbersome to move from tool to tool, so some duct work is needed. Anything that adds turbulence will decrease air flow: corrugated hoses, narrow ducts, long runs, and multiple and sharp bends. Six inch rigid pipe is usually better than 4 inch for a main run, because of decreased resistance. One quibble with an earlier poster, who warned about oversized pipe reducing air _flow_: actually air flow (cfm) is higher, but air _velocity_ is lower, so some heavier chips might drop out in the duct- not as great a problem with horizontal runs.

For a lot of info on dust collection, check out Bill Pentz's web site. Some of it regarding health risks will scare the bejeebers out of you. Also, check out Phil Thien's web site on building a pretty decent dust separator.

A shop vac can produce much higher vacuum than a dust collector, but can't move a lot of air. It really doesn't work well with jointers and planers, but is good for smaller tools (routers and sanders) with small ports, so most shops need both a dust collector and a shop vac.

Small dust particles are the major health hazard, and the most difficult to deal with. Get a face respirator (check out Wood Whisperer for recommendations). Get a high efficiency dust collector filter (Wynn Environmental), and a HEPA filter for your shop vac. Consider an air cleaner for ambient air. A good dust separator (see Pentz and Thien) helps, but takes a big hit in decreasing system air flow. A Dust Deputy can help with dust separation with a shop vac.


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## jacko9 (Dec 29, 2012)

jdonhowe said:


> Let me add my .02
> 
> There are two things to consider in dust collection, which are not mutually exclusive: 1) general shop neatness and 2) health and safety, which, as I get older, has become a higher priority.
> 
> ...


Goof information, I might add that in the picture above I "had" a 4" dust port on my planer connected to a 5" line which is a very short run to my V-3000 system which is about 1100 cdm and it left a lot of chips and dust get out. I switched to a 5" hood on the 5" line and now I get great chip and dust control.

I can also vouch for the Oneida Dust Deputy which can capture a lot of duct and chips before they get to my Festool Dust Extractor.

The bottom line is that you need to move a lot of air with as few restrictions as possible to get performance.

Jack


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## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

http://www.oneida-air.com/homepage.asp?
http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

PhilBa said:


> Good point - there is a minimum airflow speed need to the move different sized chips. That's why a planer needs higher airflow than a bandsaw or tablesaw, for example. There is an inverse relationship between duct size and speed - the bigger the duct, the lower the speed. You need a higher CFM to get the same speed in a larger duct. This is where the details get very complex and depend on specific DCs/CFMs/type of piping/number of turns/blah blah blah. PhD in dust collection doesn't sound so far fetched anymore. I kind of glazed over at that point and decided to stick with 4" pipes for now with my 1.5 HP Griz DC. It seems to work pretty well but I don't have a planer. yet. We shall see with that one.


Update: Now i have a planer. Bought a used Ridgid 13" planer. my Griz DC and 4" piping works a treat.


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## secretgarden (Jan 30, 2014)

When I first started in woodworking I bought a Jet 1200 DC and it has lasted over 15 years or so. I have added a wok baffle ($5.00), nano after market canister filter ($177), and changed the 4 in duct to 6 in PVC. I borrowed some measuring tools from a HVAC nephew and consistently got over 900 cfm. I have added a Super Dust Deputy and this thing works as advertised with less than a 100 cfm loss through my DC./55 gal drum ($26).

I would buy a used 2 hp DC. Upgrade filter to rated ones greater than .5 and change whatever small duct connections that come with the DC to at least 5 in, but 6 in would be better.

I truly believe that most of the time starting out buying used tools is OK, but only quality ones that the forums recommend. As time and money presents itself, upgrade to a cyclone.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Joshua Barney said:


> Thanks guys, at least I know a basic direction to start now. I will look for 1.5 to 2hp so I don't have to have 220. I will try to find a good deal cause it looks like I'm going to spend quite a bit on add on's like seperaters, hoses, filters and stuff. Seems like everything I buy, I need 10 more things! Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using woodworkingtalk.com


Better off just paying the electrician and getting a 220 line installed now and buying a decent dust collector from the get go...

You will need the 220 later as you upgrade to bigger and more powerful tools anyway. 

There are lots of smaller dust collectors on the market that are on wheels and can be easily moved around the shop to be used in different areas when needed. The ones from Grizzly are Awesome and tend to last a while with little maintenance if properly cared for.

:yes:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I bought a used delta 1.5 hp unit off Craigslist a while back for somewhere right around 50-60 bucks....threw a filter on it for another 150 or so and couldn't ask for more. I have a small shop so I just hook up which ever tool I need at the time.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I've never heard anyone complain that their DC is too big. But....

I would advise just doing a lot of studying on the subject. When I comes to DCs most would agree they could have made better choices when they got started. You are going to have to get some education on the subject or your going to end up wasting money and lots of time. 

Al


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