# Thoughts on old craftsman table saw model 103.22451?



## Michael_JL (Apr 1, 2013)

This popped up for sale on local craigslist. Has a newer 1hp motor, otherwise they think everything else is original. Can anyone tell me anything this unit? What is a good price for it?

Thanks


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*an old workhorse*

I would pay from between $250 and $450 depending on condition and accessories. It looks to be restored or repainted and in very good condition, so most of the hard work may have been done already. The only thing that could "wear out" are the arbor bearings and that's not a huge deal. It's probably a "right tilt" being an older saw. IF that is big concern, then you should probably pass on it.... I donno?


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

I have a 103.27270 floor model saw. I bought it as a restoration project (I have another saw). This is an image of it when I picked it up. I paid $120.00 and the guy helped me load it. I looked for a while to find this saw. While not as rare as hens teeth, there aren't a lot around. These are not a true cabinet saw. They are more a scaled up bench saw with top mounted cast iron trunnions. The main difference in the floor model saws and the many 113 saws available is the cast iron trunnions and the size and beef of the shafts. It is a beefy, strong saw.

This is easily my favorite old Craftsman saw body and it is why I bought mine.



This is an image today as painted. Plenty to do.



The saw in your image appears to have been restored or was incredibly well kept.

After disassembling my saw it needs nothing other than the paint, bearings and cleaning. I am replacing the 1 hp motor with a 1-1/2 hp motor from an Emerson saw that I already own. I also have a Delta T2 I am going to use for the fence.

How much are old saws worth is up to the buyer and seller to agree upon. It just depends if you want an old saw. Lets face it for $600-$700-$800 you can get a lot of saw when buying a new saw and it will/may have many of the modern safety features like a riving knife and a blade guard. A good comparison to make.

For a look at a few of the older floor models this is a good link.

vintage machinery

There are 4 of your actual model saw there with around 30 floor model saws to look at.

Let us know what you decide and good luck


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Prices vary a lot around the country. In my area I think woodenthings assessment of the value is about right. It looks like it's either been restored or really has been taken care of. 

The only thing I would be apprehensive about it is the size of the square tubing which is part of the fence system. I would want more table to the right of the blade which would need a longer rail for the fence. If the tubing is like 1 1/2" or 2" then that could easily be made.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> ...The only thing I would be apprehensive about it is the size of the square tubing which is part of the fence system. I would want more table to the right of the blade which would need a longer rail for the fence. If the tubing is like 1 1/2" or 2" then that could easily be made.


Steve, it isn't really tubing. It is a shape. Look at the first image I posted and you can see the rail cross section.


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## David_Siebert (Nov 15, 2016)

In our experience the advice above is bang-on. The only thing that I might mention is if there is any issue with the fence just put a Biesemeyer on it. Our two old Deltas have them and they are rock solid. 

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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

subroc said:


> Steve, it isn't really tubing. It is a shape. Look at the first image I posted and you can see the rail cross section.


The picture isn't close enough for me to see. On my computer it just looks like square tubing.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You had better take his word for it ...*



Steve Neul said:


> The picture isn't close enough for me to see. On my computer it just looks like square tubing.


This was the picture after I just clicked on his image:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> This was the picture after I just clicked on his image:


Well then, that would mean a fence upgrade for a larger table. The cost would be more than the saw is worth.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

Looks better than their current offerings. Make them an offer, does it have the miter gage? Splitter or riving knife? $150? Anything less the a 1 1/2 hp motor is really under powered. The one thing I always disliked about Sears saws is the open extensions. Parts will not be available so look carefully.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Quick fix for the fence in the meantime is to move the rail farther to the right that will give a bit more ripping capacity.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

I don't really want to get into "what its worth" because who know with the old stuff.

Anyway, after I started looking, I found the saw I bought. The guy was asking $400.00. I offered $120.00 and he took it.

There was a floor model in Syracuse, NY. The guy was asking $295. Looked to be a complete running saw. I attempted to contact the guy 2 times. He never responded and the posting expired.

There was another floor model in Philadelphia area. It was posted for $200.00. The owner deleted the post so it might have sold. That saw appeared to need some work.

Currently, there is a floor model available in Port Sanilac. The seller is asking $323.00. There isn't a clear image of this saw just an image the seller found on the web of a similar saw and a real poor image of his saw.

So, that is what folks are asking for their saws. What they actually sell for is hard to tell.


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## notskot (Feb 22, 2015)

IMO that's one of the most attractive Craftsman saws ever made, and is pretty well made too. It already looks to be in nice shape, but that look makes for a very cool restoration in general. The fence won't be great, but can be upgraded, and the saw has plenty of potential. Not sure how big the stock motor is, but at least 1hp would be good. Check it over thoroughly. ~ $200 would be fair IMO if all is well.

From vintagemachinery.org


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

I wonder if this saw is from the early fifties. I had a bench model that was probably 1952. It was much heavier cast iron than Craftsman saws of 20 years later. Loved it. Only reason I gave it to my son is that I restored a Powermatic model 65 which I use today.

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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

ChuckBarnett said:


> I wonder if this saw is from the early fifties...
> 
> ...I restored a Powermatic model 65 which I use today.


I believe these floor model saws were produced in the 50s and early 60s by King-Seeley and later by Emerson.

I expect the restoration of the Powermatic was very satisfying.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

To the OP

Did you purchase or make an offer on the saw?


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

How about the availability of parts? Sears is notorious about running out of parts. Even if you know who made it, some Sears parts won't interchange with OEM parts. Looks like a good deal. Did you know I am not a Sears fan?


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

Pineknot_86 said:


> How about the availability of parts? Sears is notorious about running out of parts. Even if you know who made it, some Sears parts won't interchange with OEM parts. Looks like a good deal. Did you know I am not a Sears fan?


 Out of all the companies that you are aware of world wide, how many have a stock of parts for a product they sold 60 year ago?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Amen to that.*



subroc said:


> Out of all the companies that you are aware of world wide, how many have a stock of parts for a product they sold 60 year ago?


You can just assume there will be no parts avaliable for a machine of this age, however welding, brazing, and machining are methods of repairing cast iron parts and steel threads. BTDT. If you bought a 60 year old car, you would also have some difficulty finding parts. :nerd2:


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> You can just assume there will be no parts avaliable for a machine of this age, however welding, brazing, and machining are methods of repairing cast iron parts and steel threads. BTDT. If you bought a 60 year old car, you would also have some difficulty finding parts. :nerd2:


 My point exactly. He was questioning parts availability on a saw that the OP posted that is some 60 years old. Maybe the OP thought about it maybe not. But the poster made the point that Craftsman parts are less than likely to be available. I just wanted to point out that no company will have parts. The used market or creative repair. That is how the old stuff gets fixed. BTW, it looks like the OP didn't participate in the thread and hasn't posted here since.


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## kentucky tom (Feb 19, 2017)

Michael_JL said:


> This popped up for sale on local craigslist. Has a newer 1hp motor, otherwise they think everything else is original. Can anyone tell me anything this unit? What is a good price for it?
> 
> Thanks


Looks a bit rough, lots of rust, wonder if it's been in a flood. Never less , 1 hp is barely adequate for cutting or ripping 3/4. Or 4 quarter hardwood . Should be 110v. 20 amp . With the rust 200-300 would be appropriate. Tom

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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

Sears will only stock basic repair parts for 7-10 years! I used to have some Sears contract manufacturers as customers years ago. I have had too many bad experiences with Sears. Unless you know who the OEM was, you might be able to find parts but as mentioned, not all parts will interchange. I did gunsmithing work as a hobby for a while. That was an example of Sears and the OEM parts. Had to remove a choke on a shotgun and replace it with another known brand. I was in a Sears store trying to find a part for something years ago. A lady had ordered a bolt for a riding mower. When she stopped in the check on the order, she was told that the part was no longer available and was never ordered. She almost tore the door off the hinges when she left. I tried to catch her to tell her to try an industrial supply store or fastener store.
I have never had anything that lasted over 60 years....except my wife.
Edit: Case in point- my Frigidaire SXS needs an ice maker. It was built in 1994. Frigidaire said Model ***X may work. "May" told me it was a crap shoot. I did find the ice maker at Lowe's less than half the cost that Frigidaire wanted. The only thing was the wire connectors were different! Why change? Why not use the same connectors? My father was an engineer in the appliance industry for over 38 years and was a strong advocate of using existing parts- manufactured and purchased. I had a '66 Olds that had one part that was used on all GM cars for seven years.
I'm done!


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