# Dust Collection



## gaviaimmer (Dec 6, 2007)

I'm planning on putting up a 32'x40' pole building in spring to use as a shop and would like to install a good dust collection system. My questions are these:

1. Any recommendations on approaches, products, etc. I have been looking at Oneida's cyclone products but am open to any solution. 

2. Oneida offers 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3hp systems in their Gorilla line but little guidance on sizing. Is there an objective way to size a system for your application?

3. All of my tools except for the table saw will be along or near walls and led themselves to overhead ducts. The table saw will be into the room enough that I am considering putting a duct under the cement floor. Good idea, bad idea, ?? I'm concerned about dealing with clogs or collection efficiency running a duct this way. If I do put something under the cement floor, what type of duct material would you recommend? It seems like steel would rust away but others caution PVC is the wrong material and size for ducting.

Thanks,
Kyle


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## BradleyB (Dec 6, 2007)

hi Kyle

I'm sure others have more experience with dust collection systems but here's my 2 cents worth.

From what I understand, a tablesaw requires 350 cfm (cubic feet/minute) and a small (3/4 hp) blower will move around 590 cfm. When planning your layout, there is a formula (I don't know it, but any dealer that is selling you a system will) for calculating cfm drops for bends in the pipe, for corrogated vs. straight line systems, and for the number of machines that need to be serviced. You can cut your cfm requirements by installing "blast doors" that re-direct the suction to one machine at a time.

Another piece of nice advice I got was regarding the impeller on the blower of the dust collector. If you're only going to collect wood chips and dust, the "bag" collectors are fine. If you ever want to vacume your floor, bench etc (or anywhere that you might suck up a piece of metal - like a stray screw), it's good to use a vortex bin. This is a lid that fits on a standard garbage can that allows anything heavy to fall to the bottom before it gets into your blower impeller and does damage. This bin goes before the dust collection bags.

I remember hearing (or reading) about somebody who built a raised plywood floor over his cement floor so he could run his dust collection ducts underneath everything. This seems like a lot of work to me but the end product sounds great.

good luck - sounds like you're going to end up with a great shop.

One more thing, a fine particle collector (separate from the dust collection system) is a great idea if you're going to spend a lot of time in your shop. It gets rid of all the nasty floaty bits that can lodge in your lungs and cause no end of trouble (and disease).


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## Al Killian (Aug 14, 2007)

I would never run dc piping thru the concrete floor. First off it makes it a real pain to rearrange the layout of the shop. Second clogs will be hard to get at if there is one. 

For a dust collector. There is more to it then just the neede cmf of the different tools. Most systems are only about half what they are rated at. You have to allow for reduced rateings due to pipes, fittings and ports. If you plan on adding a drum or belt sander or any thing large like this you will need a large system pulling over 800 cfm. For most peeps the 2.5 hp gorilla will be fine. I have a Clear Vue 1800 on order, but then again I have a 25" planer that makes a realy big mess.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

I would tend to agree with Kirk with regard to running dust collection in the floor. However, if you decided that this would be the best way to do it in your shop, then I would suggest you put the duct in a trench, and cover it with removeable plates or grills. That way you could get at it later if it clogged. It would be pretty easy to cast a grid of trenches in the floor when you pour it. This would have one advantage, that being a little less cluttered looking in your shop. I have run some of my ducting along the walls, at slightly above bench top level. I think that by doing this I have shortened the run from equipment to main duct. I have used clear pvc tubing, so that if there are any clogs they are easy to spot. I have also not glued my duct sections together, so that they can be easily cleaned out, or rearranged. I have installed cyclone collectors [vortex] between my ducting and my collectors to catch the heavier debris. These are a lot easier to clean out than removing the bag from the collector. It also reduces the problem of shavings [from my thickness planer] fouling on the inlet grid of my dc.
Bradleyb has recommended getting an air filter for the fine dust. This is a very sound suggestion, and they are only a couple of hundred dollars.
Just a few ideas I have tried out, that seem to be working.

Good luck with the shop.

Gerry


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Just had another thought. 
Many of the dust collectors come with casters built into the base, making them portable. If you locate the dust collector near the equipment you are using you will get much better performance from it due to a shorter run. You may be thinking of a more permanent installation, but with blast gates and fittings it is easy to relocate portable units to various areas of your shop.

Gerry


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Very nice sized shop, I would seriously consider reading up on the subject at Bill Penz, he really knows his stuff 
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm :thumbsup: 
Oneida has some fine collectors and offer a free duct planning when you buy from there.
But you know a shop that size should really have a bigger system than 3hp, a 5hp with 6" ducting would handle just about anything and with the proper installation of the duct work you would have a healthier and cleaner shop all around.
The clear view is a excellent choice and is well worth the look.
It all boils down to what you want from your collector and one thing also to keep in mind is future woodworking machines that might be purchased.
Per separators are a good idea as already mentioned and a air cleaner as well.
It would be a very good idea for you to sit down and draw out your shop and tool placement with measurements.:yes:


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Excellent advice Daryl.

Gerry


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## gaviaimmer (Dec 6, 2007)

All useful information - thanks.

I've seen Bill's site and its interesting but I have not been able to corroborate his info. The clear Vue again looks interesting but does it really take 5hp to move enough air to really work properly over a 20-30 ft distance? I hear 5hp and just think power consumption and noise. If that's what's needed to do things correctly, fine but it sounds like a lot for this application. I would guess my jointer/planer probably have the largest volume of output and this does not seem like all that much. Its also doubtful I would ever have more than one tool at a time running so it would seem sizing should be a function of distance, bends, and my worst case machine output. 

I like the economy of the portable units but have had it with all the set up time I have now. Like many, I'm working out of a fairly small garage space and spend more time setting up equipment than actually using it. I would like to get a fairly permanent setup with dust collection in place to focus more on woodworking. 

Has anyone here had first hand experience with Oneida, Clear Vue, Penn State Industries or other permanently installed cyclones?

My thanks to all who have responded thus far.
Kyle


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

If a person can group there tools and not have them spread all over the shop, stay away from 90's as much as possible and use 2 45 and a small piece of straight pipe, get the 6" piping as close to the machine as possible, pay very special attention to the installation of your pick ups, have a good 4' of straight pipe coming into the collector then 3HP cyclone or a bag unit converted to a cartridge filter will probably be fine. I was just pointing out that the 5HP is the best and that picking up the .5 micron dust is extremely important to your health in the long run. I know many one of which is a close friend had undersized collection and ended up with heart attacks ( non smoker).
You can also put the collector in a closet with filters in the door to return the air to keep the noise down.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Daryl's got some good suggestions there. You could look at putting your high output dust/chip makers in one group, serviced by a serious dust/chip collector, and putting your lower output producers in another group, serviced by a smaller system possibly using a fairly substantial shop vacuum. This would allow you to collect the bulk of your dust/chips without having to break the bank for one really expensive central dust collection system. Not all of your machines are going to require the services of a five horsepower dust collector. Keep in mind, that the shorter the duct runs, and the fewer the bends, the more effective the system will be.
My experience so far, although somewhat limited, is that the planers and jointers are going to produce the largest volume of large chips. The table saws and sanders are going to produce much smaller quantities of smaller chips, and could be handled by a smaller system. I haven't tried out my wood lathe yet, but I am guessing it will be in the big chip category.

Gerry


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

This is one page you will want to check. Pay special attention to the tables on this page, it gives you a very good idea what you need for cfm on the various machines in the shop.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/DC4Dummies.cfm#CFMRequirementsTable


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