# China Tools



## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

I found a youtuber who does nice work, but he reviews all kinds of tools from banggood.com that seem to be very good at much lower prices than you might find from big name tool companies.. He's worth checking out..
His channel is Hooked on Wood and the series he does about China Tools is called, duh, China Tools. I particularly like this one since I use a lot of dowels. 
I found a youtuber who does nice work, but he reviews all kinds of tools from banggood.com that seem to be very good at much lower prices than you might find from big name tool companies.. He's worth checking out..
His channel is Hooked on Wood and the series he does about China Tools is called, duh, China Tools. I particularly like this one just because I don't want to blow $1000 for Festool dominoes and the machine..


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Myself, I would buy Chinese made tools before I bought tools made by Porter Cable or Dewalt. I no longer buy these brands as well as Delta.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I buy whatever works for my situation..


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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> Myself, I would buy Chinese made tools before I bought tools made by Porter Cable or Dewalt. I no longer buy these brands as well as Delta.



I imagine most of these ARE made in China.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

There's a full range of quality in Chinese products.

My pet peeve for junk from there: bow saw blades, brand new they are worse than a good blade when it's ready to be replaced.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

China is a country not a manufacturer. The manufacturers themselves in China don't really have any standards to go by. They go by what ever standards the buyer, American Manufacturers in China for instance, wants. That is why so many different American tool manufacturers in China have stuff coming off the same assembly line but the quality can vary greatly. The cabinet could be 22 gauge steel or 18 gauge steel, just depends on what the buyer wants. The same goes for bearings and just about everything else. Oftentimes Brand A and B come out of the same factory looking exactly alike but the quality is way different.


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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

Tony B said:


> .....The manufacturers themselves in China don't really have any standards to go by. They go by what ever standards the buyer, American Manufacturers in China for instance, wants. ......


Wow. So nice to see someone understand that!!

I prefer not to buy Chinese made because they are our enemy masquerading as our friends. But they are just as capable for making anything we can and with just as a good a quality.


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

It's tough not to buy China anymore. I just learned that Milwaukee has been owned by China since 2005. Yikes! When I can buy American, I do -- it just seems right -- but it takes some research to sort that out and sometimes I get it wrong. They do make some good products; you cannot just say anything from China is junk, though a lot of it is. 
I dunno. It's complicated. Best stop before I launch an all-out rant.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

More than likely, whatever is manufactured in the U.S. gets their parts from China.
The guilt should not fall upon the American consumer but rather it should fall upon the American manufacturers that went to China for cheaper labor. It wasn't for the consumers benefit, it was for their greed in wanting to make a bigger profit. It would take a cataclysmic economical event to reverse the trend.


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

We bought our son a 40 volt cordless mower for Christmas from a company that has had their tools made in China for the last couple of decades. It is branded as being made in the USA using foreign (probably Chinese) parts. Until last year, it would have been made in china. I have a new 40 volt cordless snowblower from the same company, but it is made in Vietnam. This company is moving more and more of their manufacturing out of china.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

That's evolution for you. As soon as the dog on the bottom of the list starts manufacturing, their economy starts improving which means their wages go up and now the door is open for the new dog at the bottom of the list. I remember when I was a kid back in the mid 1950's, Japan was the low man on the Totum Pole.


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

@Tony B : That's the thing, I am not shaming anyone, I am trying to appease my own conscience in behalf of American workers yet still keep some $$ in my pocket. So, I sometimes go out of my way to buy China; it comes down to value. Value is some mysterious tradeoff between quality, accuracy, ability to get parts ten years from now, and expectation. Expectation is the tough one to quantify. I mean -- how often am I going to use the tool? If I expect to use it once I go to HFT and buy cheap. HFT honors their warranty, so if it breaks when I use it, I take it back for another (and feel bad about the one headed for a landfill). Occasionally they surprise me, like with the throw away demolition hammer I bought 17 years ago and still use. But most of the time, they live up to my expectations, like the box of wingnuts (nice assortment, BTW) I bought and put on the shelf. A year later I needed one, threaded it on the bolt and it broke. I grabbed another, it broke, and another and another. Finally I took the whole box, spread them on the driveway and walked on them. They turned to powder under my feet. Or the "single use" pump that leaked as soon as I turned it on, but it still emptied my waterbed. (Yep, I am one of "those people.")
So, we can't just say we won't buy China. No one would have a cellphone or TV or car or a tool or anything else manufactured because if it is made, some of it is made in China, guaranteed.
Gads, evolving into rant again. Must stop... Must stop... now!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Would you feel less guilty if you knew that the largest manufacturer of Fortune Cookies is in Brooklyn, NY. and other large manufacturers are in Houston, Tx and I think Nashville, Tn. 
Go figya


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

Warm and fuzzy all over. Pass the cookies!


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

TonyB is right, it’s QC is dependent on the American company staying on top if things. I like and recommend WoodRiver planes but there are guys who will not buy them simply b/c they’re made in China. Your only choice is Lie Nielsen then. I have a friend who works for a plywood company and used to go to China often to ”check on things” he told me the plant would cut every corner they could to make 25 cents. Many of the manufacturing plants in China are controlled by the party & to do business American companies have to disclose proprietary technical information and/or cede over partial ownership - and they do it to stay in business.

Pharmaceutics and medical devices? We SHOULD NOT be dependent on a foreign country!!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

DrRobert said:


> .....................
> Pharmaceutics and medical devices? We SHOULD NOT be dependent on a foreign country!!


I agree 100%, unfortunately greed and profits rule.


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

Nearly all the components in our computer systems, network gear, and military electronics are sourced from China. Now that is scary.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Dr. Bob has it right. As one who works in the design/creative industry, I have a strong distaste for certain chinese products because they either force the divulgence of proprietary knowledge or just flat out steal theThe designs from better foreign companies. In simple terms, they are state mandated thieves and that offends me. Why don’t they create their own stuff? This really is the test for me.

interestingly, Banggood sells a number of products that are rip-offs of Woodpecker tools, that are rip-offs or tiny improvements of other old tool designs, but some of Woodpecker’s tools are truly novel and those get ripped off too. Woodpeckers tools are nice without question, but they are all CNC’d, often utilizing shared design elements, so their pricing is pretty stunning to me considering that it’s all so easily manipulated in the computer and therefore don’t seem justified. Their high prices invite wholesale copying and that is happening.


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

Yep, I wholeheartedly agree with you all on China. At the same time, I rebel when an American company wants to charge me 3X a fair price for a part. A case in point is the power adapters for my MacBooks, which are constantly having their cords chewed off by the recliner. $80 from Apple, $25 from the same factory in China that builds them for Apple. If the buggers were not so greedy and charged a reasonable markup I would buy from Apple, but I know what goes into these things and $25 is a fair price, $80 is robbery. (You can also buy very poor quality for less, so buyer beware.)


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Just before Sears sold the craftsman brand to Stanley Black & Decker, I stopped by our local Sears to by a combination wrench set. The forging and finish were no where's near the quality of older Craftsman wrenches that I bought in the 80's and 90's. The older ones were made in the USA and the new ones were made in China. Afterwards I ordered some made in the USA wrenches from Armstrong and S&K (professional line). Very happy with the quality.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Overall I prefer USA made products as that's American jobs. I'm OK with imported tools provided they are good quality. However the one thing that really drives me crazy is misrepresentation of a product's quality regardless of country of manufacture.

A case in point... Several years ago I ordered a Roman door template set from a well known USA based wood working supplier. The description stated the templates were USA made and CNC cut. Before ordering I called customer service as I needed to know the arch rise as it was not stated in the catalog nor on their website. Customer Service didn't have the information so they connected me with Tech Support. The gentleman that answered did not have the information but took may name and phone number indicating he would go out to the warehouse and get a package of templates and measure them. 

He called me back just a few minutes later with templates in hand. The rise on every pair in the set was just shy of 1.5 inches. Perfect! I ordered a set on their website. 

There is no way that the template set that arrived was CNC cut. The templates were not machined well at all. One of the arches had a "bump" along the arch where the original cutter did not cut a smooth sweeping arch on the template. Some of the lower flat areas near the corners were not milled correctly and the arch rises across the pairs ranged from 1 1/4" to 1 7/16" which would have resulted in cabinet doors where the top rails would not match. The package was not shipped from their main warehouse but from one much closer to me. 

They shipped me a second set from the same warehouse. None of the new templates matched the ones in the first set. The arch rises for the most part were all different measurements. I select the best pairs between the two sets and returned the worst of them. I actually end up making my own templates.

I submitted a factual (with measurements) customer rating / feedback form which never appeared on their website nor did they ever contact me. I had ordered items from them several times previously without issue but they lost me as a customer this time.


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## Scurvy (Apr 12, 2013)

Tom-G said:


> Just before Sears sold the craftsman brand to Stanley Black & Decker, I stopped by our local Sears to by a combination wrench set. The forging and finish were no where's near the quality of older Craftsman wrenches that I bought in the 80's and 90's. The older ones were made in the USA and the new ones were made in China. Afterwards I ordered some made in the USA wrenches from Armstrong and S&K (professional line). Very happy with the quality.


That was 40 years ago, it’s not like that anymore. The quality even at Harbor Freight is as good as those old Craftsman tools (made by SK). The big mystery-meat is the metallurgy.


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## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Scurvy said:


> interestingly, Banggood sells a number of products that are rip-offs of Woodpecker tools, that are rip-offs or tiny improvements of other old tool designs, but some of Woodpecker’s tools are truly novel and those get ripped off too. Woodpeckers tools are nice without question, but they are all CNC’d, often utilizing shared design elements, so their pricing is pretty stunning to me considering that it’s all so easily manipulated in the computer and therefore don’t seem justified. Their high prices invite wholesale copying and that is happening.


Woodpeckers gets market share because their tools look cool and they market everywhere. The red layout tool walls you see on YouTube are not because those people bought those tools.

The tools themselves are cheap and not very good. The markings on their tools are not engraved. The adjustments they have aren't robust. Their designs are gimmicky rather than proven.

I have mixed feelings on knockoff Chinese designs, but they won't execute the quality on the woodpeckers stuff any worse than woodpeckers...


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

swp said:


> Yep, I wholeheartedly agree with you all on China. At the same time, I rebel when an American company wants to charge me 3X a fair price for a part. A case in point is the power adapters for my MacBooks, which are constantly having their cords chewed off by the recliner. $80 from Apple, $25 from the same factory in China that builds them for Apple. If the buggers were not so greedy and charged a reasonable markup I would buy from Apple, but I know what goes into these things and $25 is a fair price, $80 is robbery. (You can also buy very poor quality for less, so buyer beware.)


If you're buying cords for electronic devices check out monoprice.com. It's the only place I buy charging cords, etc. The phone charging cord in my shop is from monoprice, it's kevlar coated and I've stepped all over it for a couple years already. I bought 2 at the time and the 2nd is still in the original wrapper..
As for Chinese made I hold no grudge against Chinese workers. They have to eat too. If you want anyone to blame look no further than the American political class for allowing our economy to be outsourced to China. They could have stopped it dead in its tracks, but too many probably took too many campaign contributions from American companies in exchange for cheap Chinese labor and did nothing to prevent all the intellectual property theft.


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

Steve Neul said:


> Myself, I would buy Chinese made tools before I bought tools made by Porter Cable or Dewalt. I no longer buy these brands as well as Delta.


Makita, Fein, and Hilti are the only tool brands left that are stand alone companies. Every other tool manufacturer is either part of a conglomerate or China owned. I have 7 Porter-Cable routers dating back to the 1970's. Most are 690's, a Speedmatic, and a 101. The only router I have ever had repaired is my newest, an 890. I can't turn it on without sending it out for repair.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

B Coll said:


> Makita, Fein, and Hilti are the only tool brands left that are stand alone companies. Every other tool manufacturer is either part of a conglomerate or China owned. I have 7 Porter-Cable routers dating back to the 1970's. Most are 690's, a Speedmatic, and a 101. The only router I have ever had repaired is my newest, an 890. I can't turn it on without sending it out for repair.


Most all tools were made better in the 1970's. It seems the turning of the 21st century most all of them have gone south.


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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

I stay away from made in China for the most part, but I understand components are made there. As a structural steel designer back in the 80's many contracts stated that no steel for construction is to be from China due to poor quaility.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

redeared said:


> ................. As a structural steel designer back in the 80's many contracts stated that no steel for construction is to be from China due to poor quaility.


Same situation when I worked offshore on oil rigs. It was for slings and shackles ESPECIALLY those used on cranes. I retired in 2012 which is not all that long ago.


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## Sanvito300 (11 mo ago)

Steve Neul said:


> Myself, I would buy Chinese made tools before I bought tools made by Porter Cable or Dewalt. I no longer buy these brands as well as Delta.


Buying Chinese is contributing to communism economic growth and funding their regime’s military. Should buy American or its allies. I buy Makita. Japanese made.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Sanvito300 said:


> Buying Chinese is contributing to communism economic growth and funding their regime’s military. Should buy American or its allies. I buy Makita. Japanese made.


Unfortunately you are correct but only with respect to the CCP. I’m sure the average working stiff in China would love to be free. But it’s not a practical, not possible way to live.

There was a day long gone when our national economy was much more “local”. Few companies exported and most of the imported stuff was junk. Anyone remember the first Japanese cars or tools? 

American companies have to compete in a global economy against countries with extremely low wages and little to no government regulation that increases production costs. It’s very doubtful some sectors of mfg’ing will ever have a presence here. Not meaning to be unpatriotic, but “our workers can compete with any in the world” - don’t bet on it they are unionized and pensioned while we pay $65k for a pickup.

I knew a guy who worked his whole life in a brush factory up in NC (yeah, hair brushes!). The company farmed out the operation to China for to save 25 cents per brush. His job the last few years was simply packaging the brushes, the company went out of business shortly after.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Sanvito300 said:


> Buying Chinese is contributing to communism economic growth and funding their regime’s military. Should buy American or its allies. I buy Makita. Japanese made.


Most tools made today are sub-standard. Buying Chinese is best for my economic growth. I don't spend as much time repairing or purchasing tools and when I do buy I pay less.


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