# VERY bleak report on timber prices



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Here is a copy/paste of log prices from Illinois timber prices It is a resource I use to help me price raw material (logs) when guys bring them around to sell...the bottom has dropped out.

_"Report Date: 3/30/2009 [Prices reported as Stumpage, Doyle Scale]_
*Black Walnut* [Demand Weak|Flat]


Veneer Logs: $1.50-3.00 bf
Grade Logs: $0.50 bf
 *Black Cherry *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Grade Logs: $0.20 bf
 *White Oak* [Demand Weak|Flat]


Veneer Logs: $1.00-2.20 bf
Grade Logs: $0.25 bf
 *Red Oak *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Grade Logs: $0.15 bf
 *Black Oak *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.10 bf
 *Pin Oak *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.08 bf
 *Hard Maple *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Grade Logs: $0.15 bf
 *Soft Maple *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.08 bf
 *Hickory spp. *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.15 bf
 *Ash *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.08 bf
 *Yellow-Poplar *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.10 bf
 *Elm/Hackberry *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.05 bf
 *Sycamore/Sweetgum/Cottonwood *[Demand Weak|Flat]


Sawlogs: $0.05 bf
 *Additional Comments:* Overall, this one of the worst hardwood markets I've seen in 29 years. Some mills are still buying crosstie logs, but many grade/veneer mills have dropped prices so low that selling high-quality timber might not be a good idea this year. We will try to stay in the the low-grade timber at least during the first part of the year. Even the timber mat market for 18-24' rough logs has severely eroded. As related to stumpage and mill-delivered log values, housing starts and new construction will have to rebound in order for the hardwood market to pull itself out of this downward trend."

As a sawmill owner/lumber dealer...this is a reflection of the other end too...what lumber will be selling for in the near future (from logs I paid last years prices for :surrender
Today the prices like:
Cherry sawlogs for $.20 bft 
Walnut for $.50
Red oak for $.15
:huh:...they were 2-3X that last year, not good...not good at all.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I haven't looked at my reports in a while. I am thanking God for Flame Boxelder. It hasn't slowed much if at all. Look at that list - a nickel for sycamore. That ain't spalted and quartered. 

What a fella has to do is that very thing ~ spalt his stuff or find standing dead and take the good spalted wood out and leave the rot in the woods. Get as much unusual high-market stuff collected as possible burl/crotch/buggy and shoot for the daddy warbucks market like I am in. Those guys don't flinch when they want wood. 

That report sucks rotten eggs. :thumbdown:


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Daren said:


> We will try to stay in the the low-grade timber at least during the first part of the year


And this makes me glad I am not buying from loggers...he just said the "good stuff" is going to stay on the stump until prices come back up and they are only harvesting low grade. Which mean nothing but junk on the hardwood logging trucks :thumbdown:.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Possibly of interest?*

I just purchased 2000 lin ft of 8" wide western red cedar siding, channel rustic, (opposing rabbets on the edges,) at $1.69 per lin ft. I could have had hardwood! :no::yes::laughing: bill


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> I just purchased 2000 lin ft of 8" wide western red cedar siding, channel rustic, (opposing rabbets on the edges,) at $169 per lin ft. I could have had hardwood! :no::yes::laughing: bill


Was that really "at $169 per lin ft." or per 1,000 linear feet?

G


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Daren now is the time to buy them though. Have your loggers and tree guys started doing other things? Find some who took jobs but who want to moonlight, and get some cheap logs while the gettin is good maybe.


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## JDavis21835 (Mar 2, 2009)

TexasTimbers said:


> Daren now is the time to buy them though. Have your loggers and tree guys started doing other things? Find some who took jobs but who want to moonlight, and get some cheap logs while the gettin is good maybe.


Aint that the truth. If you have access to good timber, and storage for lumber, now is a great time to grab as much as you can. Sit on it. The plus side of a bad report like that is, it cant get much worse.

Father in law saw that I was cutting lumber with a chainsaw in the garage the other day. He offered 20 acres of timber that hasnt had anyone on it in 20 or so years. So I think I just found next winters project. Now I just have to convince the wife that I can really use my own mill instead of taking it to someone to cut. That being said, we have a few amish sawmills in the area, and those folks usually cut dirt cheap.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> Daren now is the time to buy them though. Have your loggers and tree guys started doing other things?


Yea...firewood. It is always a decent business here. At "sawlog" prices oak/cherry/ash/hickory/maple is worth less delivered to me whole log than by the cord delivered (including their cheap labor to process it) for firewood. So there you have it, nice sawlogs being bucked and split for firewood.
Picking grade logs that will fetch the most takes a little skill...any dim light bulb can split firewood. So now it _all_ will be split to simplify things on their end. :icon_sad:
And this complicates things with landowners looking to get rid of trees..."WHAT ? I was offered twice that last year. What are you trying to do, rip me off !!" Because they don't understand the market fluctuation and most likely were offered 2X the current price last year.


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## Bill-G (Feb 6, 2009)

Looks to be bleak all across the country. Mills shutting down everywhere. I have never seen it this bad this long in the lumber market, at least not in my 35 years in it.


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## Richard (Oct 3, 2007)

I don't know about you guys, but a few week ago I bought some 8/4 walnut at 3 bux b/f and he was doing me a favor. On top of it all it was still green.


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## Julian the woodnut (Nov 5, 2008)

There are guys posting hardwood for sale on craigslist around here that still have last years prices. I doubt they are selling much at all, since they keep reposting the same ads every week.


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## Richard (Oct 3, 2007)

How much do you guys ask for your lumber, say your normal hard wood like maple, walnut, cherry?


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## Webster (Mar 6, 2009)

Here's a couple of ads from my area.........
Rick

CHERRY LUMBER, KILN DRIED FULL 1 INCH GOOD WIDTH'S AND LENGTH'S $2.00 SQ. FT

western red cedar lumber kiln dried 1x6. $1.00 per. ft

BLACK WALNUT WOOD LUMBER KILN DRIED, GOOD WIDTH'S AND LENGTH'S, $2.00 SQ. FT

RED OAK & HARD MAPLE LUMBER KILN DRYED GOOD WIDTHS & LENGTHS 4/4 THICK $1.50 SQ. FT

White Oak for Sale can cut to any size, lots of 16’ lengths and up to 10"to 12" widths $2.25 a board foot.
Red Pine for Sale can cut to any size, lots of 10’ to 12’ lengths and up to 6"-8" widths $1.25 a board foot.
White Pine for Sale 1" thick , lots of 16" lengths and up to 12" widths $1.75 a board foot.
Soft maple for sale 1" thick, random widths 4" to 14" random lengths 4' to 8' $2.00 a board foot.
Popular for sale random thickness , and widths 8' to 12' lengths $1.25 a board foot.


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## Richard (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks Webster Those are some nice prices


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## Bill-G (Feb 6, 2009)

You will probably not see prices drop much on quality lumber because the raw material cost ,logs, is a very small part of total cost as in milling, planing ,drying,etc. I know all of my costs keep climbing, electricity, fuel, parts, insurance, taxes, and trucking to name a few. I also just focus on smaller amounts of lumber that has been air dryed for what my customers seem to prefer over kiln drying, seems to be much more stable. I also try to focus on lumber that can not be purchased at box stores, Wide Pine, Birdseye Maple, Clear Pine, and thicker stock. I could drop prices some to compensate for the log price, but then I would have to raise them to compensate for the other factors.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

You are right Bill log prices are not the defining factor for lumber prices, just a small part of the big picture.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

On the other hand though with the declining profit margins all the way from the stump to finished product I am seeing too many guys fold and dump their lumber on the market at wholesale or below prices. I have seen lumber advertised lately for what I have paid for it in the log by the bft in the past. (well close, too close)
It's just a rough time all the way around, not just for people in the timber industry, any business I can think of off the top of my head is feeling it. One thing about lumber...it ain't gonna evaporate like some of my stock market investments.
So like was said, buy them cheap-mill lumber and hope it is "money in the bank".


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## Bill-G (Feb 6, 2009)

How about the guy that buys the Walnut cheaper, is he going to sell that handmade desk that much cheaper? I think it all comes down to quality and service, the little guy will never compete based on production, we are in a seperate leaque based more on one on one personalities and other factors, while the big boys just track the buy and sell. They are welcome to it and all that goes with it. I've always said that if we all supported each other locally the country would be in better shape. The craftsman down the road may pay me a good price for local good quality lumber which would give me the money to pay him a good price for his hand made desk or to buy my food from the farmer down the road for a good price. And so the ball would roll. Cheaper is not the best thing and could be one reason we are in the boat we are in. We all want to buy as cheap as we can and then get upset when people think our product is too high. Just my 2 cents.


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## truecountry (Apr 15, 2009)

hi im new here been looking around reading posts kinda feelin the site out , i work for a saw mill aka pallet factory , and that said i see walnut logs cut ..kiln dried and sent off as pallets , not all walnut but most are.. my company pays $50 a ton for 14 foot to 17 foot logs straight as arrow 6" dia to 16" anything bigger we resell to bigger saw mills..... what i cant understand is why isnt it a bigger market for walnut........ i see alot of great wood either made into pallets of chips..........dont get me wrong i get paid good money but why waste it....


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## Richard (Oct 3, 2007)

i would love to get some nice walnut, but here in MA it very expensive. I would expect $8.00 bf for FAS if not more


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## 43longtime (Oct 15, 2008)

Here in Colorado walnut is going for 11.50 bf at my local lumber yard.
I would love to get my hands on some walnut, but at that price forget it.


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## Carl Middleton (Dec 8, 2008)

Truecountry, I too am in Va. I run a portable sawmill service and saw lumber to sell. I can hardly give away the walnut I have so I stopped sawing my logs until I sell most of what I have


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## Richard (Oct 3, 2007)

Carl if I pay for shipping will you give me the walnut that you can't give away??:laughing:
On other wood sites I visit they do wood runs. Maybe it's time to take vacation and bring along some lumber to sell along the way, just a thought



Carl Middleton said:


> Truecountry, I too am in Va. I run a portable sawmill service and saw lumber to sell. I can hardly give away the walnut I have so I stopped sawing my logs until I sell most of what I have


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## truecountry (Apr 15, 2009)

hey carl nice to see a local here ... i was cutting logs today.. (i run a 310 appentice knuckle boom when im not fixxing machines) and my god its that time of year the bark flys off the logs and they are slippiery as snot plus mud,and all at once i had a run of at least 15 walnut logs 14 footers minumun 8 inch small end to 16 " small end .. in 2 hours .... as soon as the saw buck started cutting i saw green chips i thought walnut and picked them up and yuppppppppppp.... what a waste


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

carl, truecountry, 

Welcome to the forum guys. Look forward to seeing pics and trading sea stories with y'all. 

I lived in Chesapeake for a couple of years.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

*Walnut prices in Houston area?*

Roughly what should I expect to pay for nice walnut crotch for coffee tables and benches?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Tony B said:


> Roughly what should I expect to pay for nice walnut crotch for coffee tables and benches?


This is going to sound smartasss but it's just the truth. Somewhere between"nothing and something". 

There is not an established market for crotch wood. Even if there was, the principles of free trade seem to be lost to everyone. 

What is the wood you are looking for, worth to you? What is the buyer willing to pay vs what the seller is willing to accept? If he is willing to take less for it than he is asking, I'll find that out if I am prudent and willing to negotiate. 

That might not be the answer you are looking for, but that's the answer I am willing to give. Is that acceptable to you?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

TexasTimbers said:


> ..............What is the wood you are looking for, worth to you? What is the buyer willing to pay vs what the seller is willing to accept? If he is willing to take less for it than he is asking, I'll find that out if I am prudent and willing to negotiate.
> 
> That might not be the answer you are looking for, but that's the answer I am willing to give. Is that acceptable to you?


What I was looking for was an approximate cost, last time in Austin a few months ago I saw a nice walnut crotch about 5 foot long and 2 foot wide and the asking was $200. I was wondering if this price was good, OK or too much. 
Money is very tight for me right now but I do need some more nice table top stuff.

The furniture buying market is all but dried up on high end stuff.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

*TT*

I will be going back toward Austin again at the end of May. Are you anywhere along the way between Austin and Houston without going more than an hour off the main path?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Tony B said:


> I was wondering if this price was good, OK or too much.


How much eye-appeal did you say it had to you? How much value did you say you can add to that chunk of wood with your talent, so you can make a profit?

Okay I know you want an absolute answer. I'll relent. That slab I have not seen, and that you have not seen, is worth 27 Wampums.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

Jeez, I donno ... the way wampum has been falling lately, I'd say 20 tops.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Tony B said:


> I will be going back toward Austin again at the end of May. Are you anywhere along the way between Austin and Houston without going more than an hour off the main path?


No Tony I am way out of the way between that trail. It's the opposite direction nearly. 

You can use the sawyer-finder page on Daren's website and I bet you'll come away with something you're looking for at a price you can stand also. As has been said many small sawyer operations are sort of hurting right now.


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## carlis stephens (Sep 5, 2008)

For years I did wood runs out through Kansas, Colorado, and up to Saratoga Wyoming. Somtimes twice a year. But since the Local mills shut down Once every 2 years at most. I have pretty well stopped sawing, as my shop is jammed so full I cant hardly find the room to work. In fact been planing lumber down to make room in my racks. Got loads of walnut for $2.00 Bd ft Quarter sawn w/oak $2.50,poplar $1.25, r/oak $2.00. Just planed down a walnut board that was 3" by 12" and 8' long. Maybe its time some one makes a wood run to west of St. Louis.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

carlis, once you get your 25 posts in, place an ad in the classified section I bet you'll sell some.


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## w00dw0rker (May 2, 2009)

Not an easy time for anybody, just had to shut down my cabinet/remodel business that I have been building for the last 2 and half years. I have used up every scrap in my shop trying to produce furniture that I can hopefully sale at a consignment shop for an extra buck where the potential buyers don't even know the quality of work they are getting. But hell it's what I have to do to try to put food on the table. I only have one mill here locally near Tulsa no hardwoods there over 2.25 bf kiln dried, that's pretty sweet but what good does that do me when considering what I'm having to sell this furniture for. I'm probably netting about 15 an hour for some pretty sweet work. On the other hand I'm still pursuing my passion.


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## truecountry (Apr 15, 2009)

*we are running 40 plus*

im back cutting and 40 hours plus a week plus fixxing ac and mill decks ,,,,,,,,,,,, walnut logs r plenty here but smallsay 12" big end the curly maple i need to see a butt cut


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## carlis stephens (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes I need to run several adds,I have built decks for the last 20+ and that has dwindled down to nothing, custom sawing has also taken a hit. Had 2 good size jobs cancel out this month. Tough on everyone.


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