# Muntin bars



## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

I've been dabbling in woodworking for a few years. My projects are getting more ambitious(at least for me) lately. I've decided to build some true-divided light window sashes. I have no idea how this is done as far as "joining" the perpendicular muntin bars together. Is this even explainable on a message board? Thanks!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Ycreek said:


> I've been dabbling in woodworking for a few years. My projects are getting more ambitious(at least for me) lately. I've decided to build some true-divided light window sashes. I have no idea how this is done as far as "joining" the perpendicular muntin bars together. Is this even explainable on a message board? Thanks!



*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*

Here is a good tutorial.












 









.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Hey, thank a lot! That is a really big help. I assume I need some matching router bits to pull this off and BTW, what's a push/pull tool? Sorry for my ignorance. I own and operate a retail lumber co. I can tell you, to the nail, what it'll take to build any set of house plans but this stuff, so far, has been above my pay grade.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I did some divided light cabinet doors, not windows. I didn't have a cutter to do the copes with, so I took a different approach. I was also copying some details that were on the customers other furniture. I could have saddle lapped some straight bars and added stops to both or either side. With the glass stops I made, the profile looked just like traditional muntins.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Ran out of picture space. The glass stops went on the back. I routed the fronts to match the other furniture.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

A poor pic of the glass stops.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Man, those look great. Did you 45 the profile where the muntins intersect


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

nice job hammer


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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

Ycreek said:


> Hey, thank a lot! That is a really big help. I assume I need some matching router bits to pull this off and *BTW, what's a push/pull tool?* Sorry for my ignorance. I own and operate a retail lumber co. I can tell you, to the nail, what it'll take to build any set of house plans but this stuff, so far, has been above my pay grade.


That refers to a procedure in ScetchUp, the program where the drawings were made. Nothing to do with the actual woodwork :no:


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

I thought muntin was an ingredient in shepard's pie.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Yes, I just mitered the glass stops. The backside, with the stops looks better than the face side as far as a traditional muntin appearance.


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

ycreek, if you want the profile on the front, just put the stops in the front. If you use headless pins, you probably won't even have to fill.

To do a profiled front more traditionally, just get some rail and stile cutters for the shaper and it will cut the profile so it wraps around tight. You will need to replace the bottom side of the set with a straight cutter at least 5/8 thick and the same outside diameter as the profile cutter for the stick cuts and the cope cuts can be just cut to length and then you only need the top half of the cutter set to do the inverse profile. Here's link to the kind of straight cutter I'm referring to. http://www.grizzly.com/products/Carbide-Tipped-5-8-Glass-Door-Cutter-4-Dia-/C2302Z

I have a three wing cutter and it tends to chip out if you try to make the cut in one pass. Maybe that 5 wing will give better results

I just remembered, Amana makes a router bit set to do the same thing. I have gotten some amana stuff through toolstoday.com.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks a lot for the info. I'm getting ready to start. Fingers crossed


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## Mark G (Dec 26, 2011)

If no one minds, I will piggyback on this thread rather than start a new one.

All the windows in our house have what I call "faux" muntins. They are attached to the inside of the double-pane glass via little plastic clips affixed to the sash. They are delicate soft wood and they break at the joints because certain family members :glare: shove on them to open the sash.

I have tried gluing but it doesn't work well because sometimes the joints are too disintegrated to form a good attachment. So I would like to make some more.

I'm thinking this wouldn't be too hard if I could find a router bit somewhat similar to the existing pattern. I wouldn't mind redoing an entire window in a new pattern that didn't look too different from the window on the other side of a room. I.e. exact match not necessary.

Any ideas on how a noob could approach this task would be appreciated.


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## mrsben (Jul 1, 2012)

@Mark G: Though my windows are casements, I have the identical muntins and agree that they are fragile. If yours still can be repaired, try using a product called No More Nails which is an excellent adhesive (and can be sanded). 
My biggest problem is finding the 'mounting clips' for them. Have searched the web and have come up with nothing. If you know of a supplier would appreciate the source. THANK YOU!

@ Others: The clips are made of plastic and secured with a small screw nail. The ends of the muntins are notched and the clip is designed to hold them. (See photo of Mark's.) Over the years they have become brittle and many have broken. If anyone else knows of a source and/or has a solution I would appreciate your input as well (as I do like their design and the fact they are removable.) THANK YOU!


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

An option for false muntins that offers strength and are removable is to make them with a perimeter frame. Often the perimeter sticking is rabbetted. It fits snug between the interior of the glass frame and steps over it. You don't have to worry about "legs" that can break, you can clean and finish/paint them easily. A couple of small decorated head nails, like ones used for escutcheon plates, can be pressed in to hold the muntin frame, used like a long thumb tack into the glass frame, parallel with the glass. I have a picture of one in the background of this photo, no close up but you get the idea.


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## mrsben (Jul 1, 2012)

@Hammer1: I will definitely run your suggestion by a carpenter as I do not want to be replacing all my windows for the sake of having muntins and may 'just have to bite the bullet' and have new ones made with frames. (I have a total of 34 reason why I was hoping I could salvage my current ones.)

FYI, I actually have one 'odd' window (replaced by the previous owner) in which the inside window frame has been grooved (rabbetted ?), has plastic thing-a-ma-jigs (escutcheons ?) attached and have thumb tacks (decorative nail heads ?) on the ends of each bar (legs?) that allows the entire unit to be snapped in and out ... however it is not framed. As a result, I highly suspect the muntins are part of the window's design but it gives me an idea as to what you describe as a carpenter I am not. :no: I am a pretty good seamstress though! :yes:

With much appreciation for your input. 

P.S: Have also made reference to Roy Underhill's Tutorial.


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## gatesoui (May 13, 2013)

Hello,

I also have "faux" muntins on the inside of my windows. Made of wood, they break if I don't have the tack-like things that hold them in. Effectively, there is a groove in the muntin this "thing" slides back and forth along with a tack like in a thumb-tack at the end of it. Push it in and the tack goes into the window frame to hold the muntin.

Any idea where I could try to find these little tack-like things to hold my muntins in place?

Thanks,
Gates


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## Mark G (Dec 26, 2011)

Just a quick update. I made new muntins. It was expensive, but I learned a lot about my router and router table. The missing piece was the little plastic tabs that hold the muntins in place. I was surprised and pleased to find them at Lowes, and also online.


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