# Adding BLO to Danish Oil



## Stevebo (Nov 11, 2014)

Apologies if this is a dumb question....

I'm testing a range of finishes on scrap pieces. I like the overall finish from Danish Oil (Using Watco Natural) and I like that the finish is in the wood rather than on top, even though it won't (I understand) be as tough as other types of finish.

But the color is a little light. I really like the tones I get from straight BLO, which are slightly darker than the Watco, but realize that BLO doesn't offer any protection on its own.

Can I either:

1. Just add BLO to the Danish Oil for a slightly darker finish? Will that mess up the protective aspect of Danish Oil. I understand Danish Oil already contains BLO (well normally... Watco are a bit secretive about their ingredients), so would a change in the Oil/Solvent/Varnish balance mess up the performance?

2. Put down a layer of BLO and then follow up with Danish Oil? From the description of Danish Oil it sounds like it penetrates into the wood and then hardens/seals, so would the initial layer of BLO reduce it's effectiveness?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Watco is a mixture of varnish and linseed oil already. It wouldn't hurt anything to add more linseed oil to it however you would just be diluting the varnish content. 

If you want a darker color I would be inclined to mix some pigmented Watco to the finish rather than linseed oil.


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## shopsmithtom (Nov 3, 2009)

The hybrid finishes that contain varying amounts of BLO, mineral spirits & varnish among other things and are pretty forgiving about the ratio of ingredients. A little more BLO will protect less & a little more varnish will protect more. You won't get a noticeable color change by changing the mix, so much as a difference in durability. You could add a bit of stain to tint the mix, or use artist's oil based colors or an oil compatible dye. Wood dyes won't obscure the grain like stains & artists colors do.
Whatever you decide to do, I'd test it on scraps first.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Good for you Steve knowing the value of non poly finishes. While experimenting try turpentine instead of MS. It's not a petrol product and you will get better a better finish. Too bad it isn't popular. It's just better.

Al


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## shopsmithtom (Nov 3, 2009)

I like turpentine too, but the reason I like mineral spirits in a finishing mix is that its evaporative rate is faster than turpentine. Usually when we finish stuff, I believe we're interested in speeding the finishing process rather than retarding it. Turpentine can actually do that. If I'm in more of a hurry, I substitute naphtha for mineral spirits.
As to the finish being better, I'd have to disagree on that. The BLO, the poly or spar varnish, tung oil, etc, provide the finish. The mineral spirits, turps, naphtha, etc are just thinners that evaporate & provide no substance to the finish.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

shopsmithtom said:


> I like turpentine too, but the reason I like mineral spirits in a finishing mix is that its evaporative rate is faster than turpentine. Usually when we finish stuff, I believe we're interested in speeding the finishing process rather than retarding it. Turpentine can actually do that. If I'm in more of a hurry, I substitute naphtha for mineral spirits.
> As to the finish being better, I'd have to disagree on that. The BLO, the poly or spar varnish, tung oil, etc, provide the finish. The mineral spirits, turps, naphtha, etc are just thinners that evaporate & provide no substance to the finish.


Well your only half right. Turp is much better for the mix the wood and unlike MS it does have small amounts of solids left behind. Can't find the tec dada right now but "Old Guys Rule" when it comes to "fine" finishes.

Turp just got pushed aside by the same group that thinks all woodwork should be finished with what they want to sell us.

Al


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

No to number 1. Watco is made with a high percentage of linseed oil. Adding more will dilute the resin solids that provide the minimal protection that Watco imparts. You will end up with a very soft finish.

Number 2 is possible but by first laying down the linseed oil you will greatly minimize the amount of the following Watco that is absorbed into the wood. 

Watco is available in a number of colors. I suggest you find a color you like or mix one of their colors into the "natural" color.

Finally, Watco is an oil/varnish mixture product. You can easily make your own by mixing equal parts of boiled linseed oil, your favorite varnish or poly varnish and mineral spirits. You may find that your mixture gives you the color you want.


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## shopsmithtom (Nov 3, 2009)

Al B Thayer said:


> Well your only half right. Turp is much better for the mix the wood and unlike MS it does have small amounts of solids left behind. Can't find the tec dada right now but "Old Guys Rule" when it comes to "fine" finishes.
> 
> Turp just got pushed aside by the same group that thinks all woodwork should be finished with what they want to sell us.
> 
> Al


Couple of small points, here. 
1)Half right is better than nothin'.
2)I am an old guy
3)woodwork should be finished by the stuff that makes us feel the best, both in use & in result, screw the marketing guys


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

shopsmithtom said:


> Couple of small points, here.
> 1)Half right is better than nothin'.
> 2)I am an old guy
> 3)woodwork should be finished by the stuff that makes us feel the best, both in use & in result, screw the marketing guys


Exactly. I do so much better by not reading the back of the can. 

Al


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## shopsmithtom (Nov 3, 2009)

Al B Thayer said:


> Exactly. I do so much better by not reading the back of the can.
> 
> Al


There's stuff on the back???


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## Stevebo (Nov 11, 2014)

Thank you all - in the end I went with the Watco Danish straight out of the can without adding any BLO.

Now I have a followup question:

I soaked the surface and left it to absorb into the wood, re-applying where it had all soaked in, and then wiped it *completely* dry and left it to cure. I checked back about a half hour later and there were some wet patches, as though some of the oil that had soaked in had come back out of the wood. I wiped those dry. Another half hour later and there were some more - so I wiped those dry. And again just before leaving it for the night. 

So the next morning it looks like some more came out of the wood cured on the surface overnight and now there's a fairly dark splotch in the middle and a bunch of smaller splotches on one board.

Is this just blotching or did I screw up by not mopping up enough of the oil that came back out of the table?

Is there anything that can be done? Or are my options to basically either live with it or completely re-do the table top?

Pictures below. My photography skills are terrible - the table is a fair bit darker than in the images but my camera did some weird stuff with the lighting and it looks really washed out.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

What you are dealing with is called "bleed back". It's very common when applying oil to wood with large surfaced pores. As the oil polymerizes (dries and cures) it create some heat which causes the oil to swell and be forced back to the surface.

The way to deal with it is to come back every 20-30 minutes and again thoroughly wipe it off. Generally a couple o hours of re-wiping will will stop the bleed back.

Next time, do not overly apply the oil and wipe off the excess within a few minutes.


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## Stevebo (Nov 11, 2014)

HowardAcheson said:


> What you are dealing with is called "bleed back". It's very common when applying oil to wood with large surfaced pores. As the oil polymerizes (dries and cures) it create some heat which causes the oil to swell and be forced back to the surface.
> 
> The way to deal with it is to come back every 20-30 minutes and again thoroughly wipe it off. Generally a couple o hours of re-wiping will will stop the bleed back.
> 
> Next time, do not overly apply the oil and wipe off the excess within a few minutes.


Thank you - this is my first woodworking project so I'm clocking up a lot of 'lessons learned'.

Is there anything I can do about the patches that result apart from sanding the whole thing down and re-doing the finish?


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## shopsmithtom (Nov 3, 2009)

You might try applying another coat or 2 to the whole area, letting it soak & wiping. There may be more absorption in the nonbleed areas that will even out the overall look.


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