# Older Makita Switch Wiring Help



## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

I recently acquired an older (1985) Makita 2030N combo planer and jointer. Looks like a great machine but I need some help on replacing the current switch. Motor is good, replaced the carbon brushes, cleaned the commutator, but I am trying to replace the original switch which doesn't work with a simple DPST paddle switch. It will run as I have it wired, but sparks a lot and trips the breaker. The DC motor is 13 amp, 2 hp, 115V but there are quite a few wires coming out of it that I'm not sure about. In the attached diagram there are two small black wires I've labeled black small, black/white small that I believe are field wires. I connected one of the small Black wires (labeled B/W small) the neutral from the cable, because it was connected to the same terminal as the white from the cable on the original switch. It has two speeds so I thought the orange and purple may be related to the speed, but I don't have a wiring diagram. 

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't understand it either but what looks odd is where you have "G" labeled in the picture should be the incoming hot line not the ground. The green wire is traditionally the ground wire. The incoming white wire is the neutral.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

are you sure it is a dc motor?
is there another piece of equipment (ac-dc converter) between the switch and the motor?
did you ohm out the original switch to generate the sketch?


the original switch is drawn as a DP-DT so using a DP-ST would require some reconfiguration.
let us know...


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Thanks for the responses so far. The picture of the existing switch is a little confusing because the ground is under incoming hot (black) from the wall cord. But the incoming hot is only connected to #3. However both grounds (one from the motor and one from the cord) were wired to the two ground terminals (in the diagram), there then was a ground to the planer frame. 

I'm sure it's a DC motor and the sketch comes from a small diagram on the original switch. I agree it looks like a DPDT switch, but there's only on and off on the front so that seemed strange to me, but there is also a safety pin that needs to be pushed on the side to operate the original switch. I did check for continuity in the original switch and can confirm it's bad. There is no AC-DC converter I can see, when I took out the armature I can see the wires going directly from inside to the bundled cable to the switch. Could there have been a converter inside the original switch? Do I need to add one for the new switch?

Any thoughts on how to reconfigure for a DPST?

Thanks!

Pete


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Thanks for the quick feedback. The picture of the original switch is a little hard to see, but the hot (black) from the cord is placed on top of the ground and only actually connects to #3. The green ground wires are both connected to the ground screws in the diagram with another ground going from the switch to the frame. 

I'm sure the motor is a dc motor, when I cleaned the commutator I removed the armature and there was no sign of an AC-DC converter. Wires went directly from the motor into the main cable bundle to the switch. Could the original switch have an internal converter as well? 

The wiring diagram is printed on the side of the original switch, but I did check the original switch for continuity and it's no good. Any thoughts on re-configuring the wiring for a DPST? 

Thanks!
Pete


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

you are correct, the motor can operate on a DC supply voltage. it is called a universal motor - in that it can also accept an AC voltage supply like it is currently configured.


I cannot quite follow the sketch. you mention two speeds, was that achieved by the position of the double throw switch? low- off-high? if so, your single throw switch will not work with out a second switch to select the speed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It says it's an AC motor ..*

This plate shows the frequency as 50 to 60 (Hz) cycles and the voltage as 115 (ac symbol):










I don't believe DC motors show the (ac) symbol or the cycles per second (Hz) which DC doesn't have...


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Good catch! Thanks for the correction, I was thinking universal motor (vs induction) when I said DC. If this is AC then I guess a converter would not be required? 

As for the speeds, there is a selector for high or low speed but I think it only changes a gear setting that drives feed rollers. In taking a closer look I didn't see any wiring coming from the speed selector. The original switch only had an on and off, although it did have an input for a safety key. I can take a picture if it will help. 

Any thoughts on wiring the switch?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

can you provide a pic of the motor plate, and zoom in on the wiring diagram if there is one. if not look under the wiring box cover.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Unfortunately the only plate on the machine is the one above, no wiring diagram. I did find the attached notification from Makita which should have helped, but I can't read any of the detail and as of yet haven't found a higher resolution version anywhere. It looks like Makita changed the switch on this machine, mine is the earlier switch. I also attached a copy of the wiring diagram from the original switch, this is the one I tried to replicate in the original message.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Does the wiring diagram shed any light on how to wire a new switch? Really appreciate any insight. 

Thanks!
Pete


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

since the (2) speed control sounds mechanical in nature, the 2 sets of switching contacts are required on this motor. So you will need to use a double pole-double throw switch, 20a. or to use the dp-st you purchased, you could wire in an intermediate dp-dt relay. is the paddle switch magnetic?




have you been able to determine wire color/wire numbers with certainty?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*2 speed thickness planers*

All the thickness planers I've seen have a gear box to change the speed, not the motor.

This PDF from Grizzly will show how to wire a mag switch:
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/t20550_m.pdf


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback. I can confirm the colors and the wires to the motor. It looks like there are three field wires (two black and one white) and two other wires from the motor (Black/Orange). See attached for a close up of the wiring diagram to the original switch. I would prefer to use the DPST switch I purchased because it is both magnetic and has a safety paddle which makes it easier to shut off. 

That said, I'm happy to try a relay or purchase a new switch if it gets me up and running! If I went the relay route, any suggestions on how to wire it?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

shanghaipete said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I can confirm the colors and the wires to the motor. It looks like there are three field wires (two black and one white) and two other wires from the motor (Black/Orange). See attached for a close up of the wiring diagram to the original switch.  I would prefer to use the DPST switch I purchased because it is both magnetic and has a safety paddle which makes it easier to shut off.
> 
> That said, I'm happy to try a relay or purchase a new switch if it gets me up and running! If I went the relay route, any suggestions on how to wire it?


you have a sketch in the first post of the new switch, can you confirm that it is a double pole, single throw as drawn? it has 4 connections - 2 (isolated) pair of contacts that close and open? do you recall what color wires were on the brushes, purple and orange? are there any capacitors, none are drawn? 


I have never researched magnetic paddle switches, to see if DP-DT are available. your original switch made use of the normally open and the normally closed contacts, in both the ON and OFF position. where most motors contactors just "close" when the switch is turned on to supply power to the motor. I am not motor savvy, particularly on that motor, to say if the off position connections need to be made. maybe someone will chime in to shed light on that.


if not, I am certain that a (120vac coil) dp-dt motor contactor or general purpose relay can do the job, or a dp-dt paddle switch. and yes I can provide the wiring details.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Thanks TimPa!

I've attached documentation on the DPST switch I have. There are not any capacitors I can see. When I had the armature out I looked at the wires and it wasn't clear what color they were, but from what I saw and the diagram I sent I'm pretty sure they were orange and purple.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

so you have a switch that will not replace the original's operation. your choice is to buy a new switch with dpdt contacts, or buy and install an intermediate 120 vac coil dp-dt relay. let us know what you decide. i can help with the wiring.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

I would like to go the relay route, and am looking at these two relays
- https://www.amazon.com/110V-120V-Vo...v+dpdt+coil+relay&refinements=p_85:2470955011

- https://www.radioshack.com/products/125v-dc-10a-dpdt-relay

Although it looks like I may need a base on the second product. If you want to recommend a relay I'm open to ideas as well. 

Thanks!
Pete


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

good job finding relays! if your motor is rated at 2 HP/13amps, you should use a relay or contractor with contacts rated for 2 HP, or 25-30 amps. a motor draws more current at start up. here is a wiring sketch that may help, again you need to verify your wire colors/numbers. let us know how you make out.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I had to replace a magnetic switch*

The mag switch on my 220 Minmax planer got damaged in a move. I replaced it with a safety paddle switch. It does away with the power out safety aspect, but in a one man shop, no big deal. I got the 220v DPDT switch at Grizzly, but they are out of stock at the moment. Probably available elsewhere.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

TimPa thanks for the diagram! I have ordered a relay that is on the way. Just one quick question - You have the two black field wires wired to the relay from the motor. Is the location of those two black wires interchangeable? 

Will let you know how it goes once I receive the relay.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

I cannot be positive on that particular motor. they may have an affect on the rotation direction, and should be interchanged if direction is not correct.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

TimPa- 
It turns out the contactor I purchased is configured a little bit differently then the 8 pin relays I was looking at. It's got two side connectors which I believe connect to the coils and then there are two poles. I've attached a couple of pictures of the contactor. If you wouldn't mind revising the diagram based on this contactor I would really appreciate it! Then I'll wire it up and give it a shot.

Here's the contactor - http://www.packardonline.com/Shop/Product/2508


Thanks!


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

the contactor looks to be a double pole, single throw (dp-st). in that it appears to provide two pairs of normally open contacts. I don't see any normally closed contacts, which are needed to wire this as in the original (switch) circuit. look it over and let us know if this is a dp-st or dp-dt.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

Arrghh, you're right! I'll have to purchase a different one. Thanks!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*how much do you want the "power fail" feature?*

I posted a simple DPDT manual paddle switch that I used to replace my magnetic switch several posts above. It works just fine, and if the power ever fails in the shop I will remember to shut the machine down immediately. Commercial shops where there are emplyess should have the "power fail" switches because of liability issues, a home shop doesn't need them. JMO.

I don't know if your motor will operate with this type of switch, but it may be worth looking into.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> I posted a simple DPDT manual paddle switch that I used to replace my magnetic switch several posts above. It works just fine, and if the power ever fails in the shop I will remember to shut the machine down immediately. Commercial shops where there are emplyess should have the "power fail" switches because of liability issues, a home shop doesn't need them. JMO.
> 
> I don't know if your motor will operate with this type of switch, but it may be worth looking into.


you may have missed this OP statement, Bill. this switch will be first in-line of the circuit. it just doesn't have enough contacts. however, I agree, a paddle switch with dp-dt contacts would work also.
" I would prefer to use the DPST switch I purchased because it is both magnetic and has a safety paddle which makes it easier to shut off."


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

TimPa

I was able to get a DPDT relay and am working on the wiring, quick question in your diagram. Did you have the hot and neutral from the switch (or bypassed in case of the neutral) going to the coil and then also to #3 and the same NC terminal as one of the black field wires - I can't read the number? (BTW, are these considered the COM terminals on the relay?)

Thanks,
Pete


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

At closer inspection I see it looks like Orange and Purple are connected to the COM terminals. However, I'm curious why you have neutral from the power cord connection to the NO pole with purple, but on the original switch it looks like Purple switches between the Black (hot) from the cord and the black field wire. Sorry for the questions, just trying to understand this a little bit better!


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

you may recall this question from post 12:


TimPa said:


> have you been able to determine wire color/wire numbers with certainty?


and again from post 19: "again you need to verify your wire colors/numbers."

can you provide the wire color associated with each wire number?

relay com normally closed normally open 
switch a 5 9 8

switch b 6 2 3
this chart will not allow me to insert spaces - so you have to space the info out.


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## shanghaipete (May 4, 2017)

TimPa - It seemed to work great wired as per your diagram so I'm not going to mess with any changes. Thanks for all of your help!


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