# decent / good hand saw!



## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

The wife asked me what I would like for christmas. I told her a good hand saw. she says ok! what one? I respond well. Im not sure! I am in a quandary as to what to buy. I need / want a dovetail saw, rip / tenon saw, and cross cut saw. my choices are some what limited. 

I would love to have all 3 made from Bad Axe tools works! http://badaxetoolworks.com/ but they are a bit too high for our budget. 

next on the list would be http://www.lie-nielsen.com line of saws. they run $125 to 175.00. each. a bit pricey but worth it. I have a few lie nielsen tools and love how they feel / work. So I would assume their saws would be just as nice.

then you have the wenzloff and pax saws for basically the same price as the lie nielsons. 

or you have the Veritas® Molded-Spine Saws http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=68511&cat=1,42884 which you can buy in a set for around $160 including a dovetail. rip / tenon and cross cut. my issue with these are. I really dont like the look of the fiber back. I prefer the metal backing. I know its just a cosmetic difference.

Of all the above saws i have very limited experience with them in my hands. I have a few not so old / or so new stanleys that I currently have made mid 1970's and a few gents saws. So of you guys who do alot of hand sawing. what would you recommend and why?

Thank you


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

It is hard to give a recommendation of a type of saw when you have not determined the type of use.

I wanted a small hand saw for cross cutting. I like Veritas tools so I purchased this one.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=64007&cat=1,42884,68511&ap=1

It is a pleasure to use. Fits well in the hand, sharp and so cuts easily. I use this for when I need to cross cut small pieces, or sometimes just because I like to use this instead of a power tool.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Good point, I intend to use them for general hand work. tenons, dovetails. etc. and to be honest. like you sometimes I like to keep the power tools unplugged.


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

I vote for the Veritas. I believe you will like it so well that you won't miss the money. I have both saws and I have done a bunch of dovetails over the last year. 

I have also purchased some 100 + year old classics from saw restorers on eBay. I love those saws as well but when I first started to cut dovetails I did not have the specific hand strength for that activity so a lighter saw was a blessing. Now I have the strength to use heavier backsaws for extended periods of time, and I happily use the bigger, heavier saws for tenon cutting, but the Veritas saws are still my goto saws for dovetails and likely will be as long as they stay sharp.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I wasn't very excited about the Veritas saws either until I got my hands on them at a woodworking show in the spring. They really are sweet and much more hefty than they look. Really nice to handle. If what you really want is the Bad Axe saws then get one and save up for the next. The Veritas saws hold their value well though so you might just go ahead with them now and sell later to put toward the pricier stuff.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I have a very modest collection of back saws as shown in the picture. As you can see they are all vintage saws except for the Veritas.

My least favorite is the Veritas. Nothing against Veritas, but I just don't savor picking it up like I do the oldies. It cuts fine, but slow - my fault for buying the 14 tpi instead of the 12.

I haven't had the opportunity to do much with LN saws but I would be inclined to say that was your best bet. they are more like the vintage saws that I like. Bad Axe saws are certainly awesome but without doing a head to head comparison I don't think the $ difference will be worth the performance gap.

Just me 2 cents, thinking out loud more than anything I guess.

Good luck!


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Like Firemedic, I have a small collection of back saws. Two are shop built, one is a Spear and Jackson, a Thomas Flint (now PAX I believe) and a Veritas. The one I usually grab is the S & J.


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> I have a very modest collection of back saws as shown in the picture.
> 
> Good luck!


Modest collection? Seriously?: incredulous. That sure looks like a fine nest of saws to me. 
Very Fine.

And, you changed your picture back again; just when I was getting used to the other one. What's up with that?


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Wrangler said:


> Like Firemedic, I have a small collection of back saws. Two are shop built, one is a Spear and Jackson, a Thomas Flint (now PAX I believe) and a Veritas. The one I usually grab is the S & J.


Wait! Shop made? Can you talk about that some more?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I haven't had the opportunity to do much with LN saws but I would be inclined to say that was your best bet. they are more like the vintage saws that I like. Bad Axe saws are certainly awesome but without doing a head to head comparison I don't think the $ difference will be worth the performance gap.
> 
> Just me 2 cents, thinking out loud more than anything I guess.
> 
> Good luck!


Thats kinda what I was thinking myself, along the LN's and the veritas. The Bad Axe saws I think i like them simply because you can customize them to such a degree. with all the different metals and handles. medallions and such. 

I have thought about the old timer saws too. But from what i have found in the shops and sales in my area they are all trashed. bent. broken rusted pitted. I know there are great saw wrights out there like Matt Cianci, Bob Rozaieski, Kevin Reeves to name a few but by the time i buy an old saw and have them rework it I would have just as much if not more money invested in it then a new one. granted there is nothing wrong with old tools, personally i like them. But new saws are just that new. and it will be all my patina that personalizes it! lol


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

HandToolGuy said:


> Wait! Shop made? Can you talk about that some more?


I really can't tell you much. One was made by a friends father. Art's wife was the cabinet maker, but his thing was to make tools, jigs and fixtures for his wife to use. My wife found the other at a flea market. She bought it for our six year old granddaughter, my shop apprentice. It appears to have been made from a cut down hollow ground panel saw plate; a wooden back and a very small handle.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I'll throw in my two cent's since I pretty much use backsaws for what you are planning to do. I can't comment on the boutique saws from LN or Bad Axe. I have two Veritas, a 20 TPI rip dovetail, and the 14 TPI crosscut carcass saw. I love them both. I have no issues with them and the speed of cut is fine for me since I need to go slower anyways. I have an old Disston #4 carcass that I filed rip cut and it is a dream to use. Cuts fast and true and the old handles are hard to beat. I have a larger Rip tenon that's also a Disston #4 and I need to redo the sharpening on it. It isn't as smooth as the smaller carcass. I have a large G.H. Bishop crosscut for large tenons and I need to refile that one too, it sucks right now. I would recommend getting a mix of old and new. Unless you plan to send out for sharpening you'll need to learn to do that and better on an older or cheaper saw to perfect that skill than trying to do it on your high end saw. JMHO. Plus, you may just find that the old one is your favorite, like I did with my Disston carcass saw.


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

I have a few of the old school handsaws but they are all dull and all the good saw sharpeners in my area are gone. All they want to do is grind carbide. Any suggestions where to send them?


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Joeb41 said:


> I have a few of the old school handsaws but they are all dull and all the good saw sharpeners in my area are gone. All they want to do is grind carbide. Any suggestions where to send them?


Learn to file them yourself. It's an easy skill to learn; there is lots written on sharpening. Most important; you can adjust the teeth and the way the saw cuts to fit you.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I have a Lie Nielson dovetail saw and tenon saw and they are amazing. I love them. You can't go wrong with their saws.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wrangler said:


> Learn to file them yourself. It's an easy skill to learn; there is lots written on sharpening. Most important; you can adjust the teeth and the way the saw cuts to fit you.


+1

That also affords you the opportunity to make saw-zillas like this 8 tpi med cc tenon saw... It's pretty hungry but cuts very cleanly - because I tailored the saw to my specs and tweaked it until I was happy with it.


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

I'd rather make sawdust.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Joeb41 said:


> I'd rather make sawdust.


Then good luck finding someone that can properly sharpen your saws!!


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Joeb41 said:


> I'd rather make sawdust.


Question, who sharpens your chisels and plane irons?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

:laughing: apparently the elves do.



...wish I had elves.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm really a pull-saw guy but I do have and use the Veritas 14 tpi dovetail saw. It is very good at what it was designed to do, cutting dovetails in end grain. For longer cuts that require following a line, it's hard to beat a nice dozuki or even a backless blade for when the rib would be in the way.

I always have carried a pull saw in my tool box. There has been many a time when a simple cut needed to be made and while the one fellow was off getting his skill saw and extension cord all strung he would return to find that I had already neatly made the cut by hand and had the piece fastened in place.

The common pull saws available all cut fairly well and are cheap enough and stay sharp long enough that when they get dull I simply replace them. With the tooth design of the pull saws, I wouldn't try to sharpen them myself. I do sharpen my own saws with a more standard tooth design but it takes patience to get it right.

Bret


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Lola Ranch said:


> I'm really a pull-saw guy but I do have and use the Veritas 14 tpi dovetail saw. It is very good at what it was designed to do, cutting dovetails in end grain. For longer cuts that require following a line, it's hard to beat a nice dozuki or even a backless blade for when the rib would be in the way.
> 
> I always have carried a pull saw in my tool box. There has been many a time when a simple cut needed to be made and while the one fellow was off getting his skill saw and extension cord all strung he would return to find that I had already neatly made the cut by hand and had the piece fastened in place.
> 
> ...


I have an Irwin two sided pull saw and find I am using it more all of the time. It has been a learning experience. I really like it for cutting thin wood, and plywood. 

The drawback is that I don't like disposable stuff. When mine finally gets too dull to use, I will replace it with one that does not have impulse hardened teeth that can be resharpened.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Wrangler said:


> I have an Irwin two sided pull saw and find I am using it more all of the time. It has been a learning experience. I really like it for cutting thin wood, and plywood.
> 
> The drawback is that I don't like disposable stuff. When mine finally gets too dull to use, I will replace it with one that does not have impulse hardened teeth that can be resharpened.


I recently replaced the blade in my traditional Japanese Dozuki. A couple of the teeth were missing but it still cut OK. The new blade cost about $30. The first blade lasted about thirty years. I'll buy another new one in about thirty more years. 

Bret


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Lola Ranch said:


> I recently replaced the blade in my traditional Japanese Dozuki. A couple of the teeth were missing but it still cut OK. The new blade cost about $30. The first blade lasted about thirty years. I'll buy another new one in about thirty more years.
> 
> Bret


If mine lasts 30 years, someone else will be usin' it!!


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I started with Japanese saws. They have their place in my shop but I prefer Western style. And yes, if you don't learn to sharpen your own stuff you'll really be handicapped in this. If you must send out, Lie Nielsen does sharpen their saws. If you do a search there are a few people around the nation that do the sharpening thing. But you'll be paying for the work, the shipping and be stuck waiting for your saw to come back. If that's the case buy two of each so you have one while the other's off sharpening.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Joeb41 said:


> I have a few of the old school handsaws but they are all dull and all the good saw sharpeners in my area are gone. All they want to do is grind carbide. Any suggestions where to send them?


If you re read my original post in this thread, I list a few saw "medics". these guys do it for a living.


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

Wema826 said:


> If you re read my original post in this thread, I list a few saw "medics". these guys do it for a living.


 
Thank you John, That is what I was looking for. I know how to sharpen my own and did it often early in my career but I don't want to do it anymore other things are more fun.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

your welcome!


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