# Help the rookie: SPAR Urethane



## commuter64 (Aug 28, 2015)

Hi all,

I built some tables using recycled pallet wood. Belt sanded with 36, 80 and 120. Didn't want a perfectly smooth surface. Stained with Minwax, 2 coats. 

Had Minwax Polyurethane in hand, then a person mentioned the Helmsman product. I applied the Helmsman last evening, and is uneven and rough. How do I sand, and how much? Did a small area using 220 grit and the paper filled up with the product. The finish is not tacky so I assumed it dried enough. 

The tables are meant to look distressed to a degree; hence the pallet wood. But, I want a smooth surface on the tops. 

I'm obviously new to this, so take it easy on me! :laughing:
Any input much appreciated...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

A spar varnish is a poor choice for furniture. A spar varnish is formulated to be soft and flexible to deal with the temperature extremes of being outdoors. Therefore it scratches and gets damaged easier than the polyurethane you initially intended to use. Then when it comes to spar varnishes Helmsman is one of the worst of the breed. The best would be Epifanes but is a little expensive. I normally use Cabot spar varnish when I do exterior finishing. 

To answer your question with Helmsman I would wait at least 24 hours before attempting to sand. Longer if it is cool or damp where you are. When you sand if it doesn't sand to a powder or it gums on the sandpaper quit where you are and wait for it to dry longer. 220 grit paper would be fine to sand the finish with. You only have to sand it to smooth the finish. If it needs excessive sanding and you only have one coat on better sand it a little, put another coat on and then do more sanding with the next coat. You don't want to sand through the finish for sure. Another product that might make the sanding easier for you is either 3M or Glit sanding pads. They are a foam pad with sandpaper on one side. 

About the stain, did you wipe the excess stain off on both coats? It's important there is no residue of the stain which dries on the surface. Stain doesn't adhere very well and any left on the surface can cause your finish to peal off. The finish bonds to the stain and when the stain comes off it takes the finish with it. Personally I never stain twice. If the first coat of stain didn't do the job I supplement the color with dyes. Dyes are more like ink and will color the wood rather than leaving any residue which might cause adhesion problems.


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## woodciro (Aug 23, 2009)

Begging your pardon, Steve, but I've had excellent results with spar urethane on furniture, Helmsman brand in particular. It seems to be tough and almost indestructible.

What is the difference between it and regular polyurethane? Honestly asking here, I don't know but assumed they were very similar.

Commuter, I am just finishing an end table made from recycled pallets. The wood was Southern yellow pine. I sanded the top, legs and skirts to 220. I then sanded the end grain on the top to 400. Applied a wood conditioner, let it dry a couple of days, and stained. 

I brushed the urethane on with a good bristle brush, using a light off to one side to even it out. I brushed it out with the grain from end to end, and got excellent results. 

Steve, I wish I knew more about dyeing wood. It's not really quite as dark as I wanted, and a second coat of stain almost turned out to be a disaster.

John


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The difference between spar varnish and polyurethane is polyurethane is formulated for interior use and made a great deal harder than a spar varnish so it resists the day to day scuffs and damage a piece of furniture normally gets. I've even spilled lacquer thinner on a polyurethane finish and it didn't hurt it. If you are having good results with the spar varnish you probably are able to take better care of your furniture than the rest of us. 

In order to use a dye it would be best if you had the means of spraying. This dye that I use you mix it with alcohol and spray it under low pressure. You can pretty much spray as many coats as you need to and you also can spray it to a certain extent between the coats of your finish if you think you didn't get the project as dark as you needed once you start finishing. I primarily use lacquer for finishing and this dye can even be mixed with the lacquer if need be. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=178


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## woodciro (Aug 23, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> The difference between spar varnish and polyurethane is polyurethane is formulated for interior use and made a great deal harder than a spar varnish so it resists the day to day scuffs and damage a piece of furniture normally gets. I've even spilled lacquer thinner on a polyurethane finish and it didn't hurt it. If you are having good results with the spar varnish you probably are able to take better care of your furniture than the rest of us.
> 
> In order to use a dye it would be best if you had the means of spraying. This dye that I use you mix it with alcohol and spray it under low pressure. You can pretty much spray as many coats as you need to and you also can spray it to a certain extent between the coats of your finish if you think you didn't get the project as dark as you needed once you start finishing. I primarily use lacquer for finishing and this dye can even be mixed with the lacquer if need be. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=178




Well, the table I'm finishing will see more use than the others I've built. We'll see how it holds up. Like Commuter's, these tables are pretty much "distressed", of which we both like the look (wow, that was awkward), so if I have to refinish, it won't be too bad.

The can of spar urethane I'm using is about gone, so I'll opt for plain polyurethane when I buy more.

Thanks for the tip on dye. 

John

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## commuter64 (Aug 28, 2015)

I ended up just belt sanding the SPAR and stain off and started over. Easy to do as this is pallet wood, so I was not concerned about it. Re-stained and used poly. 3 coats and it came out beautiful!!!

I'm making ad-hoc pieces for my daughters coffee roasting space. Onto my 4th piece with one more to go! I think I'll experiment with the Helmsman on a piece of wood sometime in the future just for kicks. I like the hardness of the poly for these pieces as the will get a lot of use.

Thanks for all the feedback - these types of forums are very helpful!

Tom


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I believe I would have waited until the spar was badly damaged before doing all that.


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