# Cyclone dust collector



## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

I have decided that I am going to upgrade my dust collection. I am currently using a Jet portable unit that I have to connect to the equipment prior to using. I want a ducted system. I am looking for a 2 or 3 HP unit. I noticed that several systems come with an 8" inlet and three 4" adapter. I would want to run 6" pvc piping from the collector and reduce it to 4" very close to the equipment. Most of the runs would be 15' to 20' max runs. However I would have two runs of about 30 feet for a BS and miter saw. Would I have an issue reducing the DC inlet from 8" to 6". Also, any recommendations on a DC ? I have looked at Jet, Baileigh, Grizzly, and a few others. Thanks TomC


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I have also been looking at them. I pretty well decided on the 3 HP Oneida. The 5 hp model doesn't cost much more, but would but a strain on my electrical system. The Oneida is made in the USA, it has a Baldor motor, and has Hepa filters. The biggest plus it cost about the same the other ones. As long as the price is comparable I prefer to give the American workers my money.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

I think you'll find that metal duct will be comparable in price to pvc overall. The pipe will be a little less, but pvc fittings in that size are expensive. Do not buy the metal duct at the home center, you'll want the heavier gauge available from a HVAC supplier.

We went with Oneida for our DC. Higher priced by incredibly efficient.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Wericha, where do you recommend getting the metal piping. I looked at wye fittings at Oneida and they cost over twice what I can get the pvc wye fittings for.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Oneida price looks good until you start adding the cost of shipping, stand and drum. That adds about $700 to the cost. Am I missing something?


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Check with local A/C installers. 24ga duct is reasonably priced and strong enough to hold up to most 3hp cyclones. The wyes they use will be somewhat less efficient than the ones sold by Oneida but not significantly. You'll want to stay away from the 26ga pipe from HD, but the 26ga fittings work fine. In a pinch I've used a couple of wyes from HD and they worked fine after sealing the seams. Oneida's fittings are heavy gauge, well made, and incredibly expensive.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

In theory you could build your own stand if you don't want to mount it to the wall.

I bought 2 55 gal drums with open tops for $25. I cut a round top and used a start collar to connect to the cyclone. The drums are on wheeled platforms so I simply roll the drum to the dumpster.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

TomC said:


> Oneida price looks good until you start adding the cost of shipping, stand and drum. That adds about $700 to the cost. Am I missing something?


 I haven't looked at Oneida shipping, but surly not. That is nearly 1/2 the cost of the unit.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

TomC said:


> I am looking for a 2 or 3 HP unit. I noticed that several systems come with an 8" inlet and three 4" adapter. I would want to run 6" pvc piping from the collector and reduce it to 4" very close to the equipment. Most of the runs would be 15' to 20' max runs. However I would have two runs of about 30 feet for a BS and miter saw. Would I have an issue...


 
Yes, You will have issues.

You are asking way too much from that size DC.


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## CrazyHorse (Dec 19, 2014)

Properly configured with blast gates on every drop, a 3hp cyclone dust collector will handle this with no problem. The best idea is to keep the duct as large as possible until you get to the machine, then reduce. 7" metal duct isn't that much more expensive than 6" and will give you a much better central trunk to work off of.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

OnealWoodworking said:


> Yes, You will have issues. You are asking way too much from that size DC.


 A 3 hp dust collector can't run 20 feet with 6" duct?


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

If I go with metal then I can use 7" or 8" duct. I will check with a local air conditioner wholesale dealer on the cost of the duct and fittings. Thanks everyone for the response. I would hate to run 6" pvc piping in the shop and it not work.
Tom


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You can't just go by HP*

I checked out the Grizzly line of DCs:
3 HP dual bags, 7" inlet and 2300 CFM
3 HP dual cannisters 7" inlet, 2320 CFM
3 HP, Cyclone Hepa filter, 8" inlet 1654 CFM
5 HP Cyclone dual spun filters, 10" inlet 2184 CFM.

Priced from $500.00 to $2500.

What I have never understood is the cyclone draws considerably less air in CFMs than the cannisters and cost upwards of $1000.00 more. It don't make no sense to me. I suppose static pressure is another variable in the mix.

I use two Jet 1100's 1 1/2 HP on the mobile caster bases they came with and the shortest possible 4" flex hoses. Rated at 1100 CFMs they have a 6" inlet which I reduce to 4" for the flex hose. They work well for me for my tablesaws, drum sanders, two planers and jointers. They're not perfect and some dust escapes into the shop, but by and large collect most of the dust and chips. I have quick disconnects to make the swap a 15 second operation. I would not want a fixed overhead run .... unless I knew I wasn't going to move any machine from it's present location, and I 'm just not comfortable with that much permanence in my shop arrangement. Others like a rigid overhead pipe system which is fine, just not for me.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

The single stage dust collectors are usually rated at lower static pressures. Even with a fair rating the single stage will drop off quickly with use. The cyclone should perform better since the filter doesn't clog.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*a clogged filter is useless*



hwebb99 said:


> The single stage dust collectors are usually rated at lower static pressures. Even with a fair rating the single stage will drop off quickly with use. The cyclone should perform better since the filter doesn't clog.


There's another issue here, bags vs cannister filters. The special bags made by American Fabric far out perform the Chinese cloth that comes with most DCs. 

I don't care how much fine dust the cyclone gets out, that tiny barrel at the bottom will fill up in a heart beat with a load of wood through the thickness planer. Chips and dust are way different and should be treated differently. A cyclone would be best for sanding and a single stage best for jointers and planers based on my experience, but I don't own a cyclone and prolly never will. :no:


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

It is way easier to dump the chip barrel on a cyclone VS screwing with the bag and filter on the single stage.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> There's another issue here, bags vs cannister filters. The special bags made by American Fabric far out perform the Chinese cloth that comes with most DCs.
> 
> I don't care how much fine dust the cyclone gets out, that tiny barrel at the bottom will fill up in a heart beat with a load of wood through the thickness planer. Chips and dust are way different and should be treated differently. A cyclone would be best for sanding and a single stage best for jointers and planers based on my experience, but I don't own a cyclone and prolly never will. :no:


We changed from a Jet bag DC to an Oneida cyclone about a year ago. We regularly process several hundred board feet of lumber at a time using a planer, jointer, and tablesaw, filling up several 55gal drums, and have never had any kind of clog. I have no idea what you are talking about. :no:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you made my point*



wericha said:


> We changed from a Jet bag DC to an Oneida cyclone about a year ago. We regularly process several hundred board feet of lumber at a time, *filling up several 55gal drums*, and have never had any kind of clog. I have no idea what you are talking about. :no:


You can fill those drums in a heartbeat....like I said.
I never mentioned "clog" where did you get that?


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

How did I make your point? Filling a drum is absolutely no different than filling whatever bag is on your dust collector. Please explain how your full bag is better than my full drum.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Is yours bigger than mine?*

Depending on the size of yours, either 35 gal or 55 gal it will make a difference in how quickly it fills, unless I don't understand basic physics. 

You never mentioned what size Oneida you have so you have the advantage. IT must be the 55 gal/5 HP model. The smaller models 3 HP, have smaller drums and that was what I was referring to:
http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=XGK050105H


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would rather empty a smaller drum twice. A 55 gallon drum full of saw dust especially the fine stuff ain't light.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

The part of my post you quoted and *highlighted* stated clearly 55gal drums. Not sure how more clear to make it.

We installed a 3hp Oneida with *55gal drums*. The ducting is all spiral pipe and the layout was engineered. The central trunk line is 8" with reductions for each machine: SCMS station, jointer, planer, table saw, 13 spindle line borer, hinge borer, pocket hole machine, floor sweep, and 1 port for occasional use of band saw, shapers, router table, drum sander, and utility planer. Most days there are 3 of us working and the system handles it well.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

hwebb99 said:


> I would rather empty a smaller drum twice. A 55 gallon drum full of saw dust especially the fine stuff ain't light.


You might consider a plastic drum. I looked at the fiber drums and wasn't convinced they would hold up. In my area small plastic drums are about $10 and large are less than $25. Most single stage DCs use bags with ~40 gal capacity. The statement about filling the drums up faster is bogus.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

hwebb99 said:


> A 3 hp dust collector can't run 20 feet with 6" duct?


The guy said, "*Most of the runs would be 15' to 20'* max runs. However *I would have two runs of about 30 feet* for a BS and miter saw. 

This guy thinks he can run an entire shop (with more than a few very long runs) off of a 3HP cyclone...

Only in 'harry homeowner' land is this possible (and even then only actually using one tool at a time with closed blast gates everywhere else)... :yes:

There is a limit to what you can 'reasonably' expect to do with that size DC.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

wericha said:


> We installed a 3hp Oneida with *55gal drums*. The ducting is all spiral pipe and the layout was engineered. The central trunk line is 8" with reductions for each machine: SCMS station, jointer, planer, table saw, 13 spindle line borer, hinge borer, pocket hole machine, floor sweep, and 1 port for occasional use of band saw, shapers, router table, drum sander, and utility planer. *Most days there are 3 of us working and the system handles it well*.


Glad you finally learned there were 'better' alternatives to the plastic collection bags that you thought were so great before...

Don't know how you can honest say that a 3HP DC 'handles all that well' (with three guys working at the same time no less) with a straight face. 

:no:

Next you be trying to convince us that a dump truck will do 'just fine' with a 4 cylinder engine... 

I know darn well how 'good' a puny little 3 HP DC handles something like a drum or edge sander even when it is connected directly next to it and NOTHING ELSE. (FYI- Results are not very impressive)

I also know how many machines I can run at the same time off a proper size DC for the application.










:yes:


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

OnealWoodworking said:


> The guy said, "Most of the runs would be 15' to 20' max runs. However I would have two runs of about 30 feet for a BS and miter saw. This guy thinks he can run an entire shop (with more than a few very long runs) off of a 3HP cyclone... Only in 'harry homeowner' land is this possible (and even then only actually using one tool at a time with closed blast gates everywhere else)... :yes: There is a limit to what you can 'reasonably' expect to do with that size DC.


 Why will this not work? He is a harry homeowner. He is only trying to run one tool at a time unless I missed something.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

hwebb99 said:


> Why will this not work? He is a harry homeowner. He is only trying to run one tool at a time unless I missed something.



I was giving some basic information on what I wanted to do. I did not know if this would work or not; that's why I posted. I am confused by your post. As I read it you say yes it will work with only one tool and other blast gate closed and then say it will not work. I have been pricing piping and fitting and may not want to spent that much. I am considering buying another jet dust collector so I don't have to move the one all the way across the shop. Not really sure what I am going to do now. I do appreciate the positive comments.
Tom


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

TomC said:


> I was giving some basic information on what I wanted to do. I did not know if this would work or not; that's why I posted. I am confused by your post. As I read it you say yes it will work with only one tool and other blast gate closed and then say it will not work. I have been pricing piping and fitting and may not want to spent that much. *I am considering buying another jet dust collector so I don't have to move the one all the way across the shop.* Not really sure what I am going to do now. I do appreciate the positive comments.
> Tom


The point I was trying to make is that a single 3HP DC will only pull 'so hard' when installed very near to the actual machine. As you add long lengths of pipe (and a few bends here and there) to the picture and those machines get farther and farther away from the DC - It is simply NOT going to pull as hard as it did before when observing things at the actual machine that the dust is being collected from. 

As you open more blast gates this is going to 'pull' even less. 



You may very well be better off by buying another Jet DC for the other side of your shop. May even spend less money and time for better suction at the tools that way... 

In my experience a 3HP DC is not anywhere near big enough to run an entire shop with and especially not big enough if you have multiple blast gates open and multiple tools being used at the same time. (3 guys working LOL!)

Personally - I like the option of having multiple 'smaller' DC's sprinkled around the shop. (3 HP and under is what I call 'smaller') :yes:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Plus 2 on the dual DC's...*

My shop ,has 2 Jet 1100 1 1/2 HP DCs and they are about 10 ft apart. One does duty on the drum sanders and the planers. The other serves the multiple tablesaws and the 6' jointer. Shop vacs are 'sprinkled" around the shop for smaller machines like bandsaws, a 9" disc sander and a 4" X 36" station belt sander, and to the dust ports on the RAS. 

The longest flex hose I use is about 6 ft and they have quick disconnect fittings that allow a change over in 10 seconds. Mine is not a production shop, but there are occasions where I surface plane a boat load of wood or rip a bunch of Red Oak. I have 30 gal fiber drums under the Jets and a spare empty drum to replace a full one. Some of the details are here:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/dust-collection-woodnthings-shop-part-1-a-20273/


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

OnealWoodworking said:


> In my experience a 3HP DC is not anywhere near big enough to run an entire shop with and especially not big enough if you have multiple blast gates open and multiple tools being used at the same time. (3 guys working LOL!)


You need to get out more Skippy, you'd be surprised how the real world actually works. :laughing:

For a dust collection system to work properly the ductwork has to be "engineered". There has to be a balance between volume and velocity, each machine requires a certain amount of suction volume (cfm) and properly sized pipe to maintain proper velocity. Fixed systems are a mix of duct sizes to balance the two. Companies like Oneida offer engineering services to make sure you get the most efficiency out of your system. Rather pricey but well worth the investment. For my equipment layout and workflow, Oneida's engineer determined the size of dust collector and duct configuration that was the most cost effective. I'll be sure to pass Skippy's sage advice on to them as I know they will be *really* impressed.

For "harry homeowner" (a rather insulting term, don't you think?) it may be more cost efficient to just add another dust collector. But you would be surprised how much more performance you will get out of any dust collector when the ductwork is properly configured. Take a look at this site: http://www.airhand.com/designing/ for some guidance. Multiple dust collectors take up valuable space, so why not get the most out of just one?


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

I have 2 planers side by side and a jointer next to them. If I buy another DC just for those machines do I need a one micron filter or can I safely use a bag filter like on the cheaper Jet or Harbor Freight DCs. It looks to me that these machines don't produce the fine dust particles. I would use a DC with a fine filter on all my saws, drum sander and router table. Does anyone see a problem with this approach. It would be a lot less expense.
Tom


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I think you'd be fine*

This company makes really good bag filters:
http://www.americanfabricfilter.com/ and I think they are not all that expensive.

My theory is that chips and dust are different animals and can be treated differently. Keep in mind that a bag must allow air OUT... the air has to go somewhere! If it's all clogged up with fine dust, it is not operating efficiently. The greater the filter area the more air can escape, so that's why cannister filters are more efficient. The cannisters have the flapper inside that you spin to knock the dust off ... if you remember to use them. :no:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

TomC said:


> I have 2 planers side by side and a jointer next to them. If I buy another DC just for those machines do I need a one micron filter or can I safely use a bag filter like on the cheaper Jet or Harbor Freight DCs. It looks to me that these machines don't produce the fine dust particles. I would use a DC with a fine filter on all my saws, drum sander and router table. Does anyone see a problem with this approach. It would be a lot less expense.
> Tom


 
That will work fine. 

As you already figured out - A planer makes more chips and less dust so a very fine filtering (one micron) filter may not really be required there. 

:thumbsup:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

wericha said:


> You need to get out more Skippy, you'd be surprised how the real world actually works. :laughing:
> 
> ?


I honestly do not know of any cabinet or millwork shops around me that are limited to a single 3 HP DC for their entire shop. 

What I DO know is that we will never see a video of your DC doing what you claim. :no:

(still laughing about it 'handling it so well' with three guys working at the same time)


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## klcolbey (Dec 27, 2015)

*Grizzly Dust Collector*

I may have a Grizzly available as I inherited one and not sure I need it. It was taken out of the box but never installed. The reviews seems pretty good. Any one have any thoughts?


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

The last commercial woodworking shop I was in had two main buildings. In one building they had it ducted for main dust collection, but they had mostly given up on it due to heat loss. They had a smaller dust collector (like 3 hp) at every tool. It was pretty warm inside. The second building was using the main dust collection system. It was enormous like 36" trunk line with 8" lines running to each machine with no reduction at the port. They had radiant heaters above each work stations which actually helped a lot. There was a draft coming through any open doors strong enough to blow your hat off. These weren't regular doors, but large sliding doors. It had at least two 4 foot diameter impellers for each building.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

OnealWoodworking said:


> What I DO know is that we will never see a video of your DC doing what you claim.


:laughinglaughing:

Now there's a bloody grand idea! Like I have nothing better to do in the middle of my day than to stop and make a video to explain to some dimwit on the internet that the world's not flat :no:

I have a news flash for you: just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I could use the same argument about your brain since I've never seen it, but we'll leave that alone.

I know shops with all kinds of different setups, some work well others don't. Some use cloth bags, some use *plastic *. Some use multiple dust collectors, some use one central unit. I don't know any that proudly display their use of a toilet as a tool though (although it was a fitting commentary on what I've seen of you!). Get over yourself Skippy, there's a whole big world out there and it doesn't always work the way you think. 

Peace Out :thumbsup:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

wericha said:


> I have a news flash for you: just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.












Thought about you today when I took this pic. :smile:

I looked up and said, "Hell Yeah I can run this machine with a single 3 HP DC and the rest of the shop at the same time!"... :thumbsup:


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Seriously dude, at what point did I ever say that I was trying to run a wide belt on my system? :no:

Please tell me they don't let you around power tools or sharp edges without adult supervision


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Good grief people, read the forum rules.


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