# Challanging Elm to Mill



## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

My chain saw was in the shop for repair so I had to be Creative in order to get this one to fit. It took me a while to figure out how I was gonna get the large end to fit in my saw. This is what i finaly came up with. In the process is making it fit i got some really cool book matching pieces. The first ones are 4/4 and the last 2 are 8/4. 
The first slabs right after the first pic are shown above they were the best i got today. there were several others that were note worthy that i will post again with.
Any suggestions on drying and value of the pieces would be great.


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

*The remaining pics from todays work*

The first 2 in this post are 4/4 the last 2 are 8/4.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Yep, done it. One thing you have going for you is elm has interlocking grain so the cookies cut on a bias like that _should_ stay together. I usually cut mine 6/4 and 8/4, the 4/4 wants to bust easier.
Drying, just sticker and stack them. Value ? How big are they ? Something with cool grain like eastern red cedar I get $30-$50 for say an 18" x 24" oval 6/4.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

Hey, Darren or Greg, is that heart shake normal in elm?


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

In my experience Paul, no. It looks like that one laid quite awhile though too since the bark has totally slipped and I think I can see signs of dry rot in the sapwood.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Paul, I wouldn't call it shake unless you see ring separation. Those checks emanating from the pith are common in many species and aren't considered shake unless there's ring separation. Maybe you're seeing some and I'm not though.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

TexasTimbers said:


> Paul, I wouldn't call it shake unless you see ring separation. Those checks emanating from the pith are common in many species and aren't considered shake unless there's ring separation. Maybe you're seeing some and I'm not though.


My understanding is that ring shake and heart shake are two totally different things. This one has what I understand to be heart shake. Are there wood texts that say otherwise? I don't want to have this wrong in my glossary.

Thanks,

Paul


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

You may be right Paul, I don't know what the textbook definition of heart shake is, I just assumed any kind of shake would by necessity have to include ring separation whether in the sap or heartwood. Let me know if you find a definition. I'll dig out my Hoadley's when I get a chance and see if he addressed it anywhere. I don't want to be wrong on it either, thanks for bringing it up.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

TexasTimbers said:


> You may be right Paul, I don't know what the textbook definition of heart shake is, I just assumed any kind of shake would by necessity have to include ring separation whether in the sap or heartwood. Let me know if you find a definition. I'll dig out my Hoadley's when I get a chance and see if he addressed it anywhere. I don't want to be wrong on it either, thanks for bringing it up.


Well, for all of the 3,000+ terms that I have so far put into my glossary, I have researched all but the ones that I felt were basic enough for me to handle (I'm pretty clear on what a hammer is, for example, but I was a little surprized to find out how MANY kinds of hammers there are) and on any for which I could not find at least two separate references, I so stated (there are maybe 4 or 5 such dubious definitions in the 3,000+). Both types of shake are pretty widely referenced, including in Hoadly.

Ring shake is also called cup shake and heart shake is also called star shake.

I have a fair amount of confidence in some references (very much including Hoadly, although I do contradict him in one single instance) and less so in others, but in any case I always like to hear from folks who really USE these terms.

Paul


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

You guys are way over my head with that shake stuff:huh: Does that just mean its got some cracks in it? 

The story is not over with this elm tree I have another section which is 38" or so in diameter on the small side and 40"+ at the other end that is a crotch. I have no clue how to attack this thing with only a 18" chain saw.:surrender: I think I am going to Rent a chain saw for this job any suggestions on a size and model?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

greg4269ub said:


> I have no clue how to attack this thing with only a 18" chain saw . . . . .


Just say no. Your idea to rent vs borrow from a neighbor/buddy is a good one. That way if the saw goes apey you don;t have to buy it. Renting is much cheaper than buying. 

Anything with at least a 24" bar will do it on that tree. If it were mine I'd hang my 48" bar on the 395XP and do the deal in one cut. But if you can't rent a saw with that kind of power or long bar, get the largest one you can. It's much safer to run a saw that's too big for the job (within reason of course) than to struggle and fight one that's too small.

Hate to sound like your mom or wife but I don;t know your level of experience with chainsaws. Please make sure to wear safety gear including chaps/boots/ eye protection. Helmet if you'll be working under any trees. Even seasoned loggers routinely cut stuff off because they got sloppy. 

_"I only needed to make just the one cut and I didn't want to walk all the way back to the truck . . . " _

That's the one where the bar bounced into their ankle/calf or God forbid . . . . femoral artery. Course them that done that ain't around to complain about it.


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## dirtclod (May 7, 2008)

greg4269ub said:


> You guys are way over my head with that shake stuff:huh: Does that just mean its got some cracks in it?


That's a stress or frost crack. When there's more than one radiating from the pith it is referred to "star shake". There's several types of shake. Maybe someone ought to start a thread on it to get the shake shakedown...er...shakedown the shake subject.


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

I finally got a saw big enough to halve the large section of this elm tree. my father and i got it done easter sunday i hope to get it on the mill this sunday. so far it looks to have the same red colors as the smaller sections. i was hoping to cut it into larger slabs. 

Any suggestions on the best thickness to keep 'em straight while drying?


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

greg4269ub said:


> Any suggestions on the best thickness to keep 'em straight while drying?


I usually play it by ear as I go, reading the log. I would say a couple things, one having laid so long has helped tame it some I bet. And 2 elm doesn't move as much as some species, although it will want to around the crotch areas. You should be able to get by with just about any thickness you want to mill. I would probably go heavy on the 5/4 just in case you need 4/4 and it does move a little and a little 9/4. That is one of the oldest questions in the sawmill world "how thick to mill ?" it's tough if you don't have a use in mind/ready market...so you just have to wing it and hope for the best some times.


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

I milled 1/2 of the biggin today. I got 2-8/4 book matching slabs about 12-16" wide and 8-6/4 book matching slabs 22-24" wide and the last slab was 5/4 22-24" wide which came from the near center of the tree. i started it out on its side and made the first cut and took off about 6" of uneven edges then made 2 more cuts before laying it down(this is where i got the 2 8/4 slabs). after those cuts i was at about 23 1/2" off the bed and small enough that when i laid it down i could clear the thing with my guide bearings. (one spot bulged out to 25" and needed to be trimmed) after the trimming i was able to lay it down and start slabbin it out. All and all the process was easy got lots of red like i anticipated. when i got near the center and the cuts became more quarter sawn i started getting blackish flecks showing up. the crotch feathers were the best in the center as well. when i got down to the last 3-4 inches i flipped it over and cut off the rough edges left from the chain saw when we split it. the final cut was IMO the best looking of all the slabs. i plan on cutting the other side tomorrow i was thinkin 8/4 slabs for the rest should do. i have plenty of 4/4 & 5/4 which i sawed from the top parts of the tree. i was thinkin of sellin the 6/4 book matching set for $200 per set do you think that is to high, low or just right?


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

here are the last 3 pics from this 1/2.... should have more tomorrow


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

That's some really good looking wood! :thumbsup:


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## Mizer (Mar 11, 2010)

Looks good, I like that crotch figure. Are you going to kiln dry those 6/4 sets? I think it would be great if you could get 200.00 for them. The only market we have for Elm is the pallet market at around .40 per bdf.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Mizer said:


> The only market we have for Elm is the pallet market at around .40 per bdf.


I get $2 bft for clear/furniture grade elm here, which is equal to/more than red oak sells for. I guess because it is something different.


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## Mizer (Mar 11, 2010)

Daren said:


> I get $2 bft for clear/furniture grade elm here, which is equal to/more than red oak sells for. I guess because it is something different.


Finding the niche is what it is all about. Hearing things like that give me hope.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

That is sure some pretty wood. Slop the sealer on real thick around all the openings, inclusions, and heavy figuring like the crotch. It will lessen the movement and checking to some degree. I sure do like the color and figure in it, good job milling it. :thumbup1:


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

Ever have those nights where you can't go to sleep cause your thinkin of all the cool stuff you could build with what you milled that day? Stupid elm trees.... even with just a few hours of sleep i was up and at the mill early this morn. my helper was a bit cold so i had to give him my sweater. No worries though worked up a sweat quick enough milling part 2. Sorry to report that there weren't to many goodies in the 2nd part of the log. It was very irregular in shape so getting any big slabs would have been a waste. i just started out like i did with the other half and milled it till there was no more to cut (all 8/4). There was a bit of the black flecking again in the qsawn section. After milling this thing I would agree with you Daren that elm is a good substitute for the every day hardwoods people have traditionally built with. Hopefully my market turns out as good as yours

This tree came from a yard about 25 miles from my mill. I bribed a land scape buddy of mine with all the fire wood from the tree (16,000 lbs dump trailer heaping full+) to pick up the big section and load the small ones on my trailer. I have my gas, 2 blades, and about 20 man hours into it. The yield is in the neighborhood of 1000-1200 BF. This was by far the biggest i have milled so far and as much fun as the tree was big. thanks again for all the feed back:smile:


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