# Help with Wooden Countertop Layout



## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi all, hopefully you experts can chime in here on a design question I have. I am building a set of cabinets (only 3) for one wall in a kitchen. We are using one of those "apron" farmhouse sinks that protrude from the face of the cabinet. I will be using inset doors/drawers and to make things more difficult, I want to flush mount the top of the sink with the top surface of the countertop. I know, there is going to be a seam between the top edges of the sink and the counter, but I am going to try and make this work, because that is the look we want. I am planning on building the counter out of Walnut.

Now for the issue. I would like a thick look to the countertop. I figure something around 1.5" or a little more. The issue is that I want to have the counter "hang" over the cabinet at least a 1/2" or so...but, I am a bit confused. I am thinking that I might get the same look by simply making the top face frame pieces a little smaller and setting the countertop flush on top of the cabinets. I am so confused at this point that I am wondering why I want the overhang to begin with. I think it is a cleaner look to have the counter overhang a bit so that the seam with the cabinet top is not visible. Any thoughts, ideas, or recommendations are appreciated.

Hope this made sense!

Thanks,

Jason


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

chachi said:


> Hi all, hopefully you experts can chime in here on a design question I have. I am building a set of cabinets (only 3) for one wall in a kitchen. We are using one of those "apron" farmhouse sinks that protrude from the face of the cabinet. I will be using inset doors/drawers and to make things more difficult, I want to flush mount the top of the sink with the top surface of the countertop. I know, there is going to be a seam between the top edges of the sink and the counter, but I am going to try and make this work, because that is the look we want. I am planning on building the counter out of Walnut.
> 
> Now for the issue. I would like a thick look to the countertop. I figure something around 1.5" or a little more. The issue is that I want to have the counter "hang" over the cabinet at least a 1/2" or so...but, I am a bit confused. I am thinking that I might get the same look by simply making the top face frame pieces a little smaller and setting the countertop flush on top of the cabinets. I am so confused at this point that I am wondering why I want the overhang to begin with. I think it is a cleaner look to have the counter overhang a bit so that the seam with the cabinet top is not visible. Any thoughts, ideas, or recommendations are appreciated.
> 
> ...


We just had a wood slab countertop installed in a cabin kitchen we are doing. Ours was 2.75 inches thick and we love the thicker look. We went with a copper drop in sink so we don't have the same issue you have with the farm sink. Our top overhangs about 1 to 1.5 inches. It varies due to the live edge. It sits on top of face frame cabinets that I built and I personally like the look of the overhang. 

This link will give you a little idea of what we are doing...

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/update-cabin-kitchen-25247/


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## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

Yeah, that is similar, thanks. How did you accomplish the overhang with a solid slab like that? I have a similar dilemma as I will have two faces of the countertop side showing like you do as there is no wall or cabinet on one side of the cabinet.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

chachi said:


> Yeah, that is similar, thanks. How did you accomplish the overhang with a solid slab like that? I have a similar dilemma as I will have two faces of the countertop side showing like you do as there is no wall or cabinet on one side of the cabinet.


The overhang was accomplished through detailed planning upfront. We knew the depth of the cabinets ahead of time and so we got material wide enough to allow us to have the proper overhang. The larger top that you see where two sides of the cabinets are exposed is actually two peices glued up. Again we had to figure the depth of the cabinets, the width of the knee wall and the amount of overhang we wanted on each side. Once that was determined we selected the material based on what we needed. 

We had a very good friend who does this all the time install it for us. He is actually on this forum and he did an amazing job. We could not be more pleased with the results.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

You didn't say if you were using Walnut plywood or solid wood for the counter top. It would help to know how the sink you picked is supposed to be mounted. Does the edge sit on top of the counter top, or does it get mounted from underneath. 

So, it's possible to mount the top edge flush to the top of the counter. I would rabbet the edge of the counter to accept the thickness of the edge of the sink. That way you can caulk the heck out of the rabbet so water won't get through.

As for the "thick look" for the front edge, a build up can be added to the underside of the top, Actually you only need a 1/4" overhang past the face of the cabinets (that's with inset doors and drawer fronts). Anything more than that is just personal taste.













 







.


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## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

@tom5151: Thanks. I am trying to figure out how to accomplish the overhang, say 1/2" (hanging down over the cabinet face). My thought at this point is to use a dado blade on the TS to remove 1/2" from most of the countertop boards before glue up. I will have to leave 1/2" 1/2" from two edges that will basically look like an "L" when glued up...if that makes sense. 

@cabinetman: I am planning on gluing up solid walnut. I figure I will start with 8/4 and then have to dado out most of the boards 1/2" to give me the overhang and hangdown (or whatever the terminoligy is).

I am working on some sketchup models right now that I will hopefully have done tonight. Maybe I can post them so you can see what I am saying.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Why do you want it to hang down over the front of the cabinets?


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Chachi,
Ditto on what Big Dave asked. The countertop should just project past the edge of the faceframe, not drop down below. If your cabinets are installed properly, the walnut counter should sit right on top of the cabinet with no gap. I think I know why you are thinking of the hangdown, but it's not the normal practice.
Mike Hawkins


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## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

Why? I guess it just looks right to me.  It doesn't look "finished" to me...looks like it just got put on top. Maybe I am smoking something!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

We are trying to understand the 'goal' here. Have you found pictures of what you are trying to do?

Are you Trong to match the sink apron? That's not neccesary. If your trying to have just a small lip I wouldn't suggest a dado on all else... That would be removing a WHOLE LOTT'A wood for a minor detail. How are you orienting the wood? Could you maybe band the edge with a thicker wood to give the final profile a thicker edge? 

More details would help us better help you. Props for taking this project on, you've certainly got your work cut-out for you!!!...

~tom


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## 1066vik (Feb 18, 2011)

firemedic said:


> <snip>
> *Could you maybe band the edge with a thicker wood to give the final profile a thicker edge?*
> 
> More details would help us better help you. Props for taking this project on, you've certainly got your work cut-out for you!!!...
> ...


+1 for this!


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## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks Tom, I think that seems to be my approach to most things. Blame my grandfather I guess.

Here are some pics of a similar sink. My sink will not stick out past the front edge of the countertop as I am limited to 1/2 extension from the faceframe.

pics

I like the ~2" profile on the counter. I agree that it would be a lot of expensive wood to waste, but I want it to appear as a solid piece...I will see the seam and it will bug me. I am a freak.

To me, this one would be great if it had double the thickness profile, but not just sitting on top, but "inset" into the countertop (not sure how to say it).

This is what I am shooting for as far as the look of the top...maybe a little thicker.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

chachi said:


> Thanks Tom, I think that seems to be my approach to most things. Blame my grandfather I guess.
> 
> Here are some pics of a similar sink. My sink will not stick out past the front edge of the countertop as I am limited to 1/2 extension from the faceframe.
> 
> ...


So... All your trying to accomplish is no noticable edge where the counter sits on the cabs then right? If that's the case you only need 1/16 dado in the underside of the couter top... But it HAS to be significantly wider than the cab edges. A LOT of tweaking goes on to properly the counter top a make up for irregularities with walls, back splashes, appliances etc...

That being said it may negate the look your going for...

Up to you... If you were to route a edge profile and chose the right one at the right hieght you could make the edge disappear. 

At this point I would glue a thin rim along underside and go with the profiled edge to hide the glue joint...

What are your thoughts on that?

~tom


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## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

Tom, I think you lost me. I think one analogy might be someone wearing a baseball hat on top of their head...it is just sitting on top and would blow of with a gentle breeze. Then there is putting it on correctly so that it sits down and covers an inch or two of your head. The latter is what I am after....it just looks "right" to me. 

Not sure I follow where you are talking about routing a profile.

I was thinking of just getting the undermount version of this sink, but I would still be in the same position because I would not want a 2" reveal around the sink...only on the edge of the counter above the cabinet face


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Well then if you want the top to lip over the front of the cabinet as you put it like a ball cap then you will need to make your top and then remove all the material behind the overhang.

Since the top overhangs the front and an end and you don't want a glue line about your only option is to route all of the material off of the bottom of the wood top behind the overhang edge the depth that you want the top to sit down on the cabinets.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

chachi said:


> Tom, I think you lost me. I think one analogy might be someone wearing a baseball hat on top of their head...it is just sitting on top and would blow of with a gentle breeze. Then there is putting it on correctly so that it sits down and covers an inch or two of your head. The latter is what I am after....it just looks "right" to me.
> 
> Not sure I follow where you are talking about routing a profile.
> 
> I was thinking of just getting the undermount version of this sink, but I would still be in the same position because I would not want a 2" reveal around the sink...only on the edge of the counter above the cabinet face


What I mean is a glue a ledge under the finished top all the way around... if you use a table edge profile bit around the edge afterwards you could hide the glue line at a bevel point on the profile... 

Gonna put a few picts together to illustrate and come back... but do you sorta follow what I'm getting at?:blink:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

firemedic said:


> What I mean is a glue a ledge under the finished top all the way around... if you use a table edge profile bit around the edge afterwards you could hide the glue line at a bevel point on the profile...
> 
> Gonna put a few picts together to illustrate and come back... but do you sorta follow what I'm getting at?:blink:


... comprede?


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## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

ahhhh, thanks. Yeah, that is a great idea, but I want a flat face...so unfortunately that won't work.

I may just have to put it on top and see how it looks...I am getting a little more concerned that my overhang concept along with having to cut out the sink to a very close tolerance, may be far beyond my skill set!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

chachi said:


> ahhhh, thanks. Yeah, that is a great idea, but I want a flat face...so unfortunately that won't work.
> 
> I may just have to put it on top and see how it looks...I am getting a little more concerned that my overhang concept along with having to cut out the sink to a very close tolerance, may be far beyond my skill set!


You'll be fine, just take your time and be methodical...

~tom


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

unreal...this guy just never quits with the spam


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Tom5151 said:


> unreal...this guy just never quits with the spam


Lol, was the original post deleted already?

If Ted is so damn awsome at wood working he should try making a living at that instead of spamming the crap out of this and other sites... 

If Ted's tips were worth half a chit he wouldn't need be blasting that crap all the time... We'd be enough advertising from positive comments... Damn crack pot...

~tom


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## chachi (Mar 16, 2011)

I guess I missed it!


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