# sanding sealer vs. pre stain conditioner



## larry0846 (Feb 20, 2013)

many thanks for your help -- 

zinsser no wax sealcoat vs. pre-stain conditioner -- on finished pine -- new wood -- will they both allow for an even application of stain -- is one "better" for blotch control than the other ?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Well Larry someone will come along soon with a answer. Me I'm thinking I'll watch and learn with you. :thumbsup::laughing:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Me too


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Seal Coat would likely not allow sufficient stain penetration. You could experiment with it by starting off with (10%-25% SC, 75% DNA). See how it works with your sample. 









 







.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

larry0846 said:


> many thanks for your help --
> 
> zinsser no wax sealcoat vs. pre-stain conditioner -- on finished pine -- new wood -- will they both allow for an even application of stain -- is one "better" for blotch control than the other ?


 While there is nothing wrong with pre-stain conditioner there are a lot of different products you could use for a wood conditioner. If you are using polyurethane for a topcoat then the de-waxed shellac would be the correct shellac rather than standard shellac. I normally use linseed oil thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits. When I was finishing with lacquer I just thinned lacquer. All it does is seal the surface enough the soft parts of the wood becomes close to the same density as the hard parts so it doesn't soak up too much stain. 

One other benefit of the sealcoat is if you are using a water based polyurethane. After staining you could use a full coat of the sealcoat and the poly wouldn't raise the grain and would build a lot faster. It would be just one less product to have to keep.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> All it does is seal the surface enough the soft parts of the wood becomes close to the same density as the hard parts so it doesn't soak up too much stain.


Might as well call a conditioner a sealer, as that is what it does. Yes, it seals the surface, but it doesn't change the density of the wood. It changes the permeability of the wood. What it does to the soft parts, it does to the hard parts. 

There is also the lighter portions and the darker portions, which may not respond to accept stain evenly. If a treatment is necessary it's worthwhile to experiment with samples with whatever concoction you are working with. I would also suggest to extend the samples to include whatever topcoat that will be used, as that can change the appearance of the finish.









 







.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

The best way to learn what a conditioner does is to make a step sample. It really doesn't matter what you use as a conditioner, they are all doing the same thing, limiting the penetration of the stain in the softer summer growth. 

So take a 4 foot long board maybe 3 or 4 inches wide and tape off with masking tape every 6 inches. Now make up your conditioner and vary the amount of solvent. Lets say you're using shellac. Start with a 2 lb cut and then seal the first section with 1 part 2 lb cut shellac and 1 part denatured alcohol. Next one 1 part shellac and 2 parts DNA continue on increasing the alcohol by one part all the way down your board.

After drying scuff sand with a red scotch brite pad and then wipe your stain on the entire board. You will see how the thinner sealer will allow the stain to penetrate more and the overall color will be darker. Just pick the section that has the right balance of color and penetration.


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

It all depends on what you're conditioning the wood for...

Prestain conditioner is good for oil based stains. 

The "sealcoat" which is actually a 2lb cut of shellac is good for waterbased dyes. You should thin it down to at least a 1lb cut (or buy it in the spray can) and then sand with about a 600 grit paper. In this case, the dye is actually coloring the shellac, not the wood, so sanding it gives it something to bite to.

That being said, you CAN use Shellac under an oil base, but it takes a very very very long time to apply. The "ruby" color on my little fire truck below was obtained by a 2lb cut of shellac on cherry then rubbed over and over and over with an oil bases dye/stain. Like I said, it took forever because the color couldn't penetrate. It's all about learning.










Bobby


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Might as well call a conditioner a sealer, as that is what it does. Yes, it seals the surface, but it doesn't change the density of the wood. It changes the permeability of the wood. What it does to the soft parts, it does to the hard parts.
> 
> There is also the lighter portions and the darker portions, which may not respond to accept stain evenly. If a treatment is necessary it's worthwhile to experiment with samples with whatever concoction you are working with. I would also suggest to extend the samples to include whatever topcoat that will be used, as that can change the appearance of the finish.
> 
> ...


You don't think these products soaked into the wood and hardens doesn't harden the surface?


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