# Chisel bevel



## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

Does anyone use a secondary bevel on their bevel edge chisels? 

I remember watching a LN video and they don’t recommend them, but instead recommend them on plane iron only. 


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Absolutely. I recommend hollow grinding, too.


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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

DrRobert said:


> Absolutely. I recommend hollow grinding, too.



Interesting.

As for performance on cutting wood it makes no difference if it’s hollow grind or not correct? 

It seems like hollow grinding and secondary bevel on plane iron goal is to shorten the time of resharpen?


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

The concave surface of the bevel reduces the wedge effect.

If you freehand sharpen, the concave bevel provides a two point contact to register the bevel against the stone. Definitely shortens sharping time.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

i use 2 bevels for the simple reason of it takes less time to freshen up the 2nd bevel
i use a simple clamp jig and gauge to sharpen chisels, the 1st bevel takes a bit of time, 
especially with my abused chisels, 1st bevel takes out the nicks and gets an uniform angle with 120 grit
2nd bevel fine tunes the chisel and can be repeated over and over before any need to redo the 1st bevel
hollow grind can only be done on a wheel, not stones or plates

my simple setup is a chunk of corian routed out to accept harbor fright diamond plates
sand paper can also be stuck on the side for finer grit than the 360 grit plate
the gauge i made for consistent bevels on chisels or planes

current setup is a vast improvement over my sharpening freehand with stones and sandpaper


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## Bernie_72 (Aug 9, 2020)

For those of you that add a secondary bevel on their chisels what are you setting that secondary bevel at? If your primary bevel is 25 degrees are you taking the secondary bevel to 27 degrees or are you setting the secondary bevel to 30 degrees or higher?


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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

DrRobert said:


> The concave surface of the bevel reduces the wedge effect.
> 
> If you freehand sharpen, the concave bevel provides a two point contact to register the bevel against the stone. Definitely shortens sharping time.



I just can’t do free hand. Lol 

I got myself the LN honing guide haven’t used it yet. 

Waiting for my 8000 grit stone so I can set a secondary bevel on my block plane. 


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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

I use the LN jig and only do a single bevel


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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

redeared said:


> I use the LN jig and only do a single bevel



What grits do you use when you sharpen? 

I only have 300 / 1000 / 8000


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## awoodby (Jul 12, 2018)

I use the Veritas (ln) jig and just got the bridge city tool works jig (Love their stuff, just can't justify another plane yet! Check them out!)

I do a light secondary bevel, super easy on both jigs, just a few strokes though because I like stoopid sharp. Secondary is on 8000grit (and likely gone the second or third stroke lol)



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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

Wow that bridge tool jig looks good. Didn’t never know they make one until now. 


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## Bernie_72 (Aug 9, 2020)

Woodpeckers has a nice honing guide that looks interesting but as with all woodpecker tools it is a bit spendy. 

https://www.woodpeck.com/ott-tool-sharpening-system-2020.html


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## awoodby (Jul 12, 2018)

dws780 said:


> Wow that bridge tool jig looks good. Didn’t never know they make one until now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's a bit longer than the Veritas but sure is solid and has great guiding to keep blade square.
Would be perfect for the sandpaper method, I need to set that up for my coarser shaping, these chisels are driving me nuts! 

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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

On really messed up chisels I may start at 100 wet/dry sand paper to square them up, then 300/600/1200 diamond stone, and finally a 4000 wet stone. It can be tedious and labor intensive on neglected chisels but if you properly maintain them it only takes a few minutes to bring them back. I like them sharp and if know ahead of time on a project when working at the senior center woodshop I will always bring mine in, some refuse to touch them saying they are too sharp.
Heck I have one kitchen knife I made, my wife refuses to touch, she dropped it on her hand while washing it once, ER and 9 stitches, when I use it I have to wash/dry/put it away.


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## awoodby (Jul 12, 2018)

Yes, that's what I want to use paper for, the initial shaping on some renovated /old/abused chisels. Scraping them on the 220 shapton is just tedious, and scraping the 220 shapton to flatten IT equally tedious!

I really need to figure out hollow ground, need some sort of jig for the grinder or belt sander that holds better than I can do yet, way too many failures so far :/



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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

Bernie_72 said:


> Woodpeckers has a nice honing guide that looks interesting but as with all woodpecker tools it is a bit spendy.
> 
> https://www.woodpeck.com/ott-tool-sharpening-system-2020.html


Woodpecker makes great stuff, but the prices are way too much for me to justify to purchase them.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I do not put secondary bevels on my chisels and hand planes. I can't explain why, other than being a purist and "that's how they come." 

I use the Veritas Mk.II Deluxe Honing Guide Set. It is so nice to use, and I recommend it, especially compared with the inexpensive $15 honing guide I used in the past. The Veritas guide has a quick setting that changes the bevel angle for adding a secondary micro-bevel if desired. So far, I have not used that feature. 

I respect @DrRobert's opinions greatly, and read what he said about hollow grind, but I have not used it on my "quality" chisels or hand planes. I tried a hollow grind on the "beater" Aldi chisels, just to see if I liked it. The jury is still out on that one. I have a Grizzly wet grinder, which I use for turning tools. (Note: I get by with it, but I do NOT recommend the Grizzly wet grinder for turning tools.)

For chisels and hand planes, I use diamond stones and "Japanese" water stones (made in China). One reason I do it that way is that I can sharpen them inside the house in the evening or early morning. I lay out a towel on the the kitchen bar/counter, and put a piece of scrap plywood on it, fill an old "Twizzlers" container with water for the water stones and for wetting the diamond stones, and relax. There is a certain meditative aspect to sharpening hand tools. 

In my opinion, the trick is setting a very precise, always repeatable, bevel angle alignment with the honing guide. Otherwise, you spend a lot of time recreating the bevel. 

I spent a couple hours yesterday morning sharpening a block plane blade. The previous owner did not do a great job on it. I put a fresh 25 degree bevel on it, but the back is still not satisfactory, and I ran out of time. 

_I am still searching for an efficient way to flatten the backs on chisels and plane blades._ There is no way to do it on the Grizzly grinder. Even if I start out with an extra extra course diamond stone, it takes way too long, and I often give up before the job is done right. Any suggestions?


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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

I have a cheap $15 honing guide that I use for my cheap chisels and I am not happy about it. 

I did a lot of research between the LN and Veritas Deluxe jigs and it’s has come down to simplicity on the LN. They both cost the same but there way just too many steps on the Veritas for setup. I do wish LN have a protrusion stop.

The woodpecker is really nice and very expensive but there are limitation on it since it have two wheels, where you can’t rock jig to when honing on advanced sharpening. 

I have the trend diamond plate combo 300/1000 and a Japanese wet stone (made in Japan)


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## awoodby (Jul 12, 2018)

My Veritas is maybe an older type, there's nothing to setup but tightening it down. I made a wood piede that can measure/set length protruding to get the angle, but that's it. 

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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

dws780 said:


> I have a cheap $15 honing guide that I use for my cheap chisels and I am not happy about it.
> 
> I did a lot of research between the LN and Veritas Deluxe jigs and it’s has come down to simplicity on the LN. They both cost the same but there way just too many steps on the Veritas for setup. I do wish LN have a protrusion stop.
> 
> ...


It is nice to hear that you like the Lie-Nielsen honing guide. They make high quality tools. I hope it gives you many years of good service.

The Veritas Deluxe honing guide has more features than other jigs, but you can ignore them as I do. What I like about it (and why I use it) is the solid metal angle setter. Because it is metal, it clamps to the honing guide in a very repeatable way. You set the chisel or blade against a metal stop, tighten another screw to clamp the chisel or blade, remove the setter, and you're ready to roll (pun intended). 

Before that, I made several of the well-known-design angle setters for the common-style honing guide. None of them worked out very well. They did not yield consistent repeatable honing angles. Even with fences alongside the blade to keep them square to the stops, they were not consistent enough for me. I found myself grinding a new bevel too often, because the angle was not perfectly matched. One silly issue is that the blades cut into to the wood stops on the angle setters, changing the resulting angle over time. 

To match an existing bevel angle on a chisel or blade with the common style honing guides, I found that the best solution (for me) is to use a perfectly flat plate. You can use a sheet of glass, a scrap of granite countertop, or anything that is perfectly flat. Press the bevel to the surface of the plate with your thumb and attach the honing guide so the wheel is on the surface of the plate. Next, press the bevel on the surface again, but bring the honing guide wheel next to the edge of the plate (with the bevel pressed and perfectly flat), and test how the honing guide wheel contacts the edge surface of the plate. If the wheel strikes below the edge or floats above the edge, then you don't have a match. Adjust the honing guide and test again until the wheel is perfectly aligned with the flat surface of the plate as you bring it to the edge. This technique works far better for me than the "measured length" angle setters, especially the ones I made from wood. (I have not seen this method documented anywhere; I just figured it out for myself.)

I didn't think you could wear out a diamond plate, but I am pretty sure I have worn out my DMT plates, mostly from flattening so many handplane blade backs for hours at a time. They still scratch glass, but they take much longer than they should for basic honing. Thanks for the recommendation on the Trend brand plates. I found a "Stumpy Nubbs" video where he talks about what makes them better and was convinced, so I ordered a set for myself. We'll see if they're better.


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## awoodby (Jul 12, 2018)

Egads man! I spent more time than I'll mention flattening them on a beltsander I cannot Imagine grinding hand planes down on a manual plate!
I bow before your superior motivation! 

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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

I flatten the backs on a diamond stone about 2"x8" that I bought 50 or so years ago. I only flatten 3/16" / 1/4" back on the both tools. I hollow ground only when the tool needs grinding. A tool to hold the angle for honing is rarely used anymore. I usually do chisels and irons by hand on the diamond stone. My guess is 400/600 grit on this stone. I have an 8000 grit stone too, only used on carving tools. Now since I am a lousy carver i hardly use it at all.
I have used a 1x42 belt sander with 220 grit belts to sharpen gouges and skews. I prefer the belt sander over a grinder for wood and metal lathe tools.
mike


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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

Forgive me I'm old and miss spoke when I said I use the LN jig, actual I did, but I currently use the Veritas Mk.II. It gives me repeatability at keeping the same angle. Why I don't do a secondary bevel is that with the Veritas jig it is a skewed bevel and I don't like that. I also made a recessed jig for the 2x8 diamond stones so I can use the full lenght of it when honing which saves time.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

To flatten plane irons backside use to make my hands cramp. I solved the problem with an old car speaker magnet I stick to the iron and it gives me an easy way to hold the iron while flattening. It also works on chisels.


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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

I do have a few newbie quick questions about angle sharpening.

My LN jig provide the distance for each angle from 20-50 degree (5 incremental). Plane blade and chisels uses the same?

When making protrusion stops for the angles. Let say I were to make a secondary bevel on my 25 degree plane iron do I just place it on the 30 degree stop or use a 1/8” shim on the 25 degree stop?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*This should answer most of your questions .....*







Probably the most comprehensive video I've seen on how to sharpen!


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## Matison (Oct 2, 2020)

I spent a lot of time sharpening all of my chisels, now, I rarely do anything other than strop them after each use, or if they seem to be catching on the wood. They stay razor sharp for me this way


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