# Why does my saw now trip the surge protector,



## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

I've been using a 1.75hp table saw for a couple years now. It has been plugged into a 10 receptacle power strip designed for "garage" use and has a 15 amp built in breaker. This has worked great for a couple years. However, recently the power strip surge protector trips every time I turn on my saw. There is nothing else plugged into the power strip and no other tools running running on the circuit. 

I tried a different power strip with the same results. I have been forced to run an extension cord from the wall outlet in order to use my saw. Any idea why this would have changed?


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

My guess is it's broken. But then I'm just a woodworker wondering why your using a surge protector on a table saw.

Al


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

The main reason is because in my small shop I have very few outlets and a lot of tools that need to be plugged in. The power strip seems to work great for all of them (jointer, planer, bandsaw, SCMS, DC, spindle sander, etc) except the TS. 

I do have a lonely 220V outlet that is begging for my TS to get rewired. Honestly, I want to convert the TS to 220 but am a little bit intimidated.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Fear not!*

With a proper diagram usually found under the plate or right on the motor decal you will have no problems. I would take a photo of the wires as they are at present however. 

Here's a sample diagram, probably like yours....









Your motor will have terminals labled as T1, T2 etc OR it may have color coded wires. red, black white etc. just follow the diagram.






















The next issue is to proper wire the plug for the receptacle. Some are 3 prong other have 4 prongs.
Mine are just 3 prongs, 2 for hot and one for neutral.
Size the wiring according to the amperage, BUT if the motor is currently on 120 V, the wiring should be just fine.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Masterjer said:


> I've been using a 1.75hp table saw for a couple years now. It has been plugged into a 10 receptacle power strip designed for "garage" use and has a 15 amp built in breaker. This has worked great for a couple years. However, recently the power strip surge protector trips every time I turn on my saw. There is nothing else plugged into the power strip and no other tools running running on the circuit.
> 
> I tried a different power strip with the same results. I have been forced to run an extension cord from the wall outlet in order to use my saw. Any idea why this would have changed?


I would stop using it until I figured out what was wrong with it if it were mine.

Does it get hot or smell burnt when it trips?


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> With a proper diagram usually found under the plate or right on the motor decal you will have no problems. I would take a photo of the wires as they are at present however.
> 
> The next issue is to proper wire the plug for the receptacle. Some are 3 prong other have 4 prongs.
> Mine are just 3 prongs, 2 for hot and one for neutral.
> Size the wiring according to the amperage, BUT if the motor is currently on 120 V, the wiring should be just fine.


I *believe* you have 2 hot and one ground, not a neutral. :whistling2:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not mine*



Alchymist said:


> I *believe* you have 2 hot and one ground, not a neutral. :whistling2:


There are quite a few 3 wire receptacles that call the center terminal ground or neutral interchangeably. Mine goes to the neutral bar in the panel.

Here's a sample diagram:










The 4 wire ones have a separate ground terminal:


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Where can you use a 3 wire 240 outlet today? (One that's not grandfathered in). As far as I know only the 2 hot with ground or the 4 wire version is allowed anymore.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Masterjer said:


> I've been using a 1.75hp table saw for a couple years now. It has been plugged into a 10 receptacle power strip designed for "garage" use and has a 15 amp built in breaker. This has worked great for a couple years. However, recently the power strip surge protector trips every time I turn on my saw. There is nothing else plugged into the power strip and no other tools running running on the circuit.
> 
> I tried a different power strip with the same results. I have been forced to run an extension cord from the wall outlet in order to use my saw. Any idea why this would have changed?


More than likely the surge protector is getting worn out. They get soft like circuit breakers. 

It sounds like you need to put in a sub-panel in your shop. If you can physically pull the wire from your main breaker to your shop it would be pretty simple to do and we would help you.


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## MEP1 (Aug 14, 2015)

Years ago I bought a 2-pack of 6-outlet power strips for under $10, no breakers or surge protectors, I just wanted more outlets. I just have to be sure not to run more off it than it's rated for (which is 20A).


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

OnealWoodworking said:


> I would stop using it until I figured out what was wrong with it if it were mine. Does it get hot or smell burnt when it trips?


No it doesn't get hot or smell. I just bought a new one thinking the old one was bad and it trips right away too just as the saw starts coming up to speed. 

I am wondering if there may be some friction in my saw making it work a little harder to get up to speed which could cause the extra current draw.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Masterjer said:


> I am wondering if there may be some friction in my saw making it work a little harder to get up to speed which could cause the extra current draw.




That's what I was going to suggest. Check the saw over real good.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Do you have an amp meter to check the _actual_ current the saw is pulling? If the label says it's suppose to pull 10 amps, for instance, and it's pulling 15, then you have a problem with your saw. If it's pulling the correct current then the problem lies elsewhere.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

difalkner said:


> Do you have an amp meter to check the _actual_ current the saw is pulling? If the label says it's suppose to pull 10 amps, for instance, and it's pulling 15, then you have a problem with your saw. If it's pulling the correct current then the problem lies elsewhere.


Good suggestion.

A Kill-A-Watt meter with tell him all this and more very easily for 25 bucks or less without having to learn electronics to be able to actually USE it... :yes:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Masterjer said:


> No it doesn't get hot or smell. I just bought a new one thinking the old one was bad and it trips right away too just as the saw starts coming up to speed.
> 
> I am wondering if there may be some friction in my saw making it work a little harder to get up to speed which could cause the extra current draw.


I meant the saw not the power strip... You already ruled out the power strip being defective.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

a true 1.75 hp motor can draw close to 15 amps depending on efficiency and other factors of the motor. the motor plate will tell you the rated current. at start up, a motor is in a high current draw condition until speed is reached. this will likely trip an Over Load Protection device not rated for motors (time delay).

your power strip may not be rated accordingly. my guess is that the OLP device was close but did not trip before. now that the saw has aged (bearing wear, dirt, friction, etc.), the start up current is a little higher tripping the breaker. it should probably be on a 20 circuit anyway - check motor label.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

What type of motor do you have, unless it is totally enclosed it will be loaded with sawdust by now which kills most motors, but can often be remedied by a clean out. You are right on the cusp with 15 amps so any extra resistance will put it over the limit.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll check the motor plate. The saw is a 2 yr old Jet Proshop with a 1.75hp motor. 

I think a good clean out of the motor is on my immediate list of things to do. Followed by wiring it for 220.


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

The problem could also be before the surge strip. If you're getting resistance from a bad connection or a bad outlet, it can have the effect of increasing amp draw.

Your saw may have peaked at 13 amps at 118 volts before, but if it's only getting 106v at full load, it may be 16 amps now.

The strip itself will innately add some resistance, so eliminating it may be why it works without it, though not necessarily the root of the problem.


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## Ron Restorff (Nov 18, 2013)

Odds are the surge protector is worn out, same thing happens to GFI's over time. Plug the saw into the wall outlet and turn it on if it runs you are good to go. I would skip buying a new surge protector since its job is to protect what you have plugged in from line surges that could harm it. Good for a computer not needed for power tools. A simple fused outlet strip is all you need to protect your home wiring system if you're concerned.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

My only reason for the surge protector is to add more plugs. It was sold as a workbench power strip. 

However, I'm ditching that idea and am ready to convert the saw to 220V. 

To make sure I'm on the right path, my plan is to remove the power cable at the switch and install a new 3 wire cord with the proper plug on it. 

I got to the diagram on the motor and it doesn't look too bad. Really it looks like I make 2 changes. Black goes to yellow and brown gets a twist cap all by itself. 











Does that sound right? If my cord were longer I'd just snip off the plug and add a new one , but it's only about 3 feet long, so I'll just add a whole new 12' cord. Since my amperage will be half, I'm thinking a 12ga or maybe even a 14ga cable will be more than adequate. 

I verified that the switch in the saw currently breaks both the white and black wires, so that was nice of them to have the switch ready.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

OnealWoodworking said:


> Good suggestion.
> 
> A Kill-A-Watt meter with tell him all this and more very easily for 25 bucks or less without having to learn electronics to be able to actually USE it... :yes:



Some local libraries have Kill A Watt meters, you can check out for free.
It's interesting to measure and record every draw in the house, to get an idea how to conserve.


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

NickDIY said:


> The problem could also be before the surge strip. If you're getting resistance from a bad connection or a bad outlet, it can have the effect of increasing amp draw.
> 
> Your saw may have peaked at 13 amps at 118 volts before, but if it's only getting 106v at full load, it may be 16 amps now.
> 
> The strip itself will innately add some resistance, so eliminating it may be why it works without it, though not necessarily the root of the problem.


That would be my guess as well. Either the motor is drawing more current on startup than it used to or the feed outlet has some resistance that's limiting voltage. I would replace the outlet with a new one.


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## zing9139 (Jul 7, 2015)

I had the same problem with one saw motor and similar with a compressor motor.

A friend explained the clear epoxy resin that insulates the copper windings to keep them from shorting wears thin or oxidizes over time and from heat. 

One motor would trip breakers that all other items worked great on and the other took just a couple of few seconds to get up to full speed and then completely stopped working a week later 

He told me about a spray can product call red insulating varnish. He told me how to use it and I also looked on line for more info on how to apply it.

Bottom line is it fixed these two motors and one other and they still run like new a year later.

I've tried it 4 times, It worked great 3 times. I got it on Ebay and it was under ten dollars delivered. There's still a good bit in the can.

One motor was a freebie, a 1.5hp motor that quit running and is now mounted to a table saw and running great

The red varnish was neat stuff and I did a careful spray job. The spray just migrated all over the windings and even covered the areas I couldn't directly spray. It covered the copper wires like magic

If all else fails you may want to consider it. I would have easily spent a lot more replacing motors. Even if they fail next year, I figure I'm still ahead 

Next free motor I find, I'm going to try a real epoxy resin


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Red glyptol has been used for ages as a winding insulator.


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## Ron Restorff (Nov 18, 2013)

Converting to 220v does not save on power since the wattage is the same. It does drop the surge at start up slightly. I would just run a dedicated 20a 110v line with one or two outlets and run all of my power tools off that circuit.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

If you are going to try to use a power strip, you definitely need one rated for motors. Inrush current is substantially higher than max rated current on the motor. My Ridgid 4510 has a 120V 15 amp rated motor and the inrush current is around 52 amps. That current level is only present for a few milliseconds before it settles down to it's normal 8 amp no-load draw. I have a clamp-on ammeter with a peak hold function so I can measure that kinda stuff. Like others have suggested, your real fix is to pull a 220 line into a subpanel and go from there. It isn't that difficult nor as expensive as one might think. I pulled 220V - 30 amp sevice out to my garden shed (about 40 ft from the house) last summer and the cost, including lighting, outlets, GFCI's, security lights..etc was under $500.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

I finally did it. I just got done rewiring my saw for 220V. It took me about 30 minutes to make the new power cable, wire it to the switch, then rewire the motor. 

The difference was immediate. I must have had some serious voltage drop before because the saw would take between one and two seconds to get up to speed. Now it takes less than half a second. 

Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement.


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## Ron Restorff (Nov 18, 2013)

Glad it's working for you.


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