# Delta Band saw switch and wiring?



## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

Hi guys, 
I just purchased an older 14" Delta band saw. The PO said he would plug it in to start it and that the switch did not work.

When I went to see it, he plugged it in (reg. 120V plug in the garage), and it ran continuously.
After I brought it home, I decided to try to fix the switch, so I checked it for continuity and it seems to be fine.

Here is the problem, it was wired for 230V, I think that's why the switch would not work, so I want to make sure i wire it right for 120V starting with the switch.

Can any one out there please help?? 
ThanX in advance..


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Please provide the model # from the band saw.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*There are 3 things*

The question I have is that if the motor was wired for 220V, why on earth did he plug it into a 120v outlet?
220v plugs will NOT go into a standard outlet.
Anyway......
The 3 things are: The plug/outlet, the switch and the motor.
The plug needs to be a 3 prong rated for the motor starting amps and wired with a neutral (white), hot(black) and ground.(green)
The switch, rated for the motor starting amps, which will be 2X that for 220 v, should be a single pole double throw. which means it has 2 positions and interrupts only the black/ hot wire. You can use the 220 V switch, double pole double throw, and interrupt both the neutral and hot if you choose.

The motor wiring must be correctly wired for 120V based on the wiring diagram inside the motor wiring box or on an external plate.
That should be all you need. :thumbsup: bill


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

Here is the serial # CI-1150 (no model #, except for LBS-26 on the upper arm).


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> The question I have is that if the motor was wired for 220V, why on earth did he plug it into a 120v outlet?
> 220v plugs will NOT go into a standard outlet.
> Anyway......
> The 3 things are: The plug/outlet, the switch and the motor.
> ...


Bill,
I agree and you are correct in your quote, but I am not so sure it (sw) was wired for 120V.
That's where my question originates.
I can post pics of the wiring as soon as I figure out how...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

javnjavnot said:


> Bill,
> I agree and you are correct in your quote, but I am not so sure it (sw) (the switch?)*was wired for 120V.*
> That's where my question originates.
> I can post pics of the wiring as soon as I figure out how...


 you said this: Here is the problem, *it was wired for 230V,* I think that's why the switch would not work, so I want to make sure i wire it right for 120V starting with the switch.

So, are we saying the switch was wired for 120V and the motor was wired for 230Vs..I'm lost here??? follow the procedure above and you should be fine. You can use a 220v switch if that's what it came with, no problem. The wiring to the motor is what most important when switching voltages.


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

*The 230V diagram on the name plate is the way it is wired on the inside?? Also the bl*


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

javnjavnot said:


> *The 230V diagram on the name plate is the way it is wired on the inside?? Also the bl*.


What is "bl."? If the wiring meets the diagram for both the motor and the switch, and the motor doesn't cycle with the switch, the switch could be shot.











 









.


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

Here is a different question..

The black, L1 and white, L2 from the plug were wired to top of SW, while (green GR) to motor. 

At bottom of SW, coming from motor, black below white, and green below black.

Is this wired correctly for the switch to run 120V?


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

*what's there w/detached BL and GR coming from motor.*


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> What is "bl."? If the wiring meets the diagram for both the motor and the switch, and the motor doesn't cycle with the switch, the switch could be shot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry about that (text was cut off). The wiring does meet the diagram for both the motor and the switch the way it was wired to correspond to 230V, But it runs on 110V (the 3 prong plug fits in a regular outlet).


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## mars (Aug 24, 2010)

It looks like it is wired up for 220V in the picture. The motor needs to have red and green wire together on one leg and the yellow and black together on another leg to be wired for 110V per the name plate on the motor. I cannot see the back of the switch or the plug to see how they are wired up.


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## mars (Aug 24, 2010)

If you need help with the switch post a picture of the back so we can see how it is wired up and also the plug. The model number may be called Cat. Number


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

*I disconnected the Green and Black from below SW.*


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## mars (Aug 24, 2010)

DO you have to screws on the bottom of the switch? Remove the tape from the red and yellow wires and see if they have a ring lug on them.


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## mars (Aug 24, 2010)

What is the amp rating on the motor? It should be on the on the motor name plate it is cut off in the picture. You should not have to mess with the Red and Black wires under the cover. That is to change rotation of the motor.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Assuming that it is a 2 pole switch, it doesn't make any difference for the voltage. What happens with the switch when used on 120 volt operation is that both hot (black wire) and the neutral (white wire) are switched. It's not a big deal and makes it easy for the consumer to switch between 120 vs. 240 volt operation.

The big question is: How does a switch fail? The answers are always closed or always open. As Mike said, it appears to be a faulty switch. In this case failing in the always closed position. 

You can probably find a switch at a local electronics store. Be sure to get one good for 15 Amps and something that will fit into the saw.


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

Yes there are 2 screws on bottom of SWitch. There are no rings on the red and white wires coming out of motor.

The Switch is wired the way it was on the top -- 1 black, 1 white. The green (from motor) was wired straight below the black (from chord), and the black (from motor) was wired straight below the white (from chord). 
I disconnected the green and black from below because someone locally told me the green from motor should not be connected to the switch.?

I want to know if this is the 'correct' wiring for 110V on this switch and why it won't switch it on after I tested it for continuity and it's good?

ThanX to the replies.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Just my opinion*

That looks to me like a 2 pole 2 throw switch that it is wired for 220v.
The problem here is that the supply cord has a green wire, rubber covered, if I see correctly, and the motor also has a green wire, cloth covered.
Usually on a 120v system all the greens go to ground,
This is not the case here because of the motor having a green.
Someone seems to have put a 120 v on the supply cord and that's the problem. They never changed the wires inside the box to 120 V operation. To do that you must open the connection of the yellow and red and follow the 120V diagram: red to green, and yellow to black. then these go to the switch top terminals. The supply cord gets a white and a black to the bottom terminals of the switch.
Green from the supply cord goes to a ground terminal in the box.

This is my best guestimate of how to do this. When the smoke clears write back....:laughing: bill


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## mars (Aug 24, 2010)

I do not have the answer for it not working. Did you check both sides? Did you check both sides from top to bottom? You should get open if you checked both on the top or bottom with no change when you switch the switch. If you are going to run your saw on 110 you will need to wire it for 110 it is wired for 220 now you will need to get some lugs for the yellow and red wire.


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

*Woodnthings, I'm curious..*

:blink:


woodnthings said:


> Someone seems to have put a 120 v on the supply cord and that's the problem. They never changed the wires inside the box to 120 V operation. To do that you must open the connection of the yellow and red and follow the 120V diagram: red to green, and yellow to black. then these go to the switch top terminals. The supply cord gets a white and a black to the bottom terminals of the switch.
> Green from the supply cord goes to a ground terminal in the box.
> 
> I think I agree w/ what you say someone else did. If I wire it like you say red to green, yellow to black to the switch top terminals, then would the black to supply cord have to be opposite the yellow to black on the bottom of switch or would it matter?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I don't think so*

When the smoke clears, we'll know for sure. :laughing: This whole thing is a little weird if you ask me. Who was this guy you bought this from...Red Greene? or nephew Harold? Tim the toolman Taylor? How did it get this messed up....


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

This guy (PO prior owner) said he got it from a friend of his, who also just plugged it in when wanting to use it..

I'm alot more caring of my stuff and want my tools to work properly, and be safe!:yes:

SO it won;t matter which terminal (black or white to power cord) ends up opposite (on switch)the yellow/black or red/green as far as you know??


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## mars (Aug 24, 2010)

I would put the red and green on the same side of the switch as the black, put the yellow and back on the same side as the white. Leave the green from the power cord on the ground screw. I would also leave the wires from the cord on the switch.


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

*Mars, I will try that...*

Thanks for all the help.

Will post the results later.:thumbsup:


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Let me try to explain.

There is a yellow and red tied together. According to the plate on the motor, this wiring configuration says that the motor is wired for 230 volt operation. The plug that you show is a 115 volt plug. This is a contradiction! HOWEVER it is possible that the PO had an outlet wired to provide 230 volts through a "normal" looking outlet. It's not code, it's not smart but it is possible.

From the line (or plug) there are three wires, white, black and green. This green is always ground and should be tied to the frame of the motor/chassis. The white and black are dual purpose wires. 
In 230 volt operation
Black is the high phase or phase A
White is the low phase or phase B
These two wires will give 230 volts between them.
In 115 volt operation
Black is the hot
White is the neutral (eventually ground)

Going to the motor there are four wires, red, yellow, black and green. To further confuse the issue, the model number on the motor plate, 83-510 comes up as a drill press model number.

You said that the saw ran at the PO residence. Although POSSIBLE, I don't think that the outlet was wired for 230 volts. Strictly based on logic, let's go forward and make your saw run with a new switch. 

The confusing part is that we are not used to seeing switches that have been wired for 115/230 volt operation. The switch in your saw is switching both the hot and neutral during 115 volt operation. This is unusual in our minds but perfectly normal in dual voltage operations. The key to understanding the switch between voltages is that the manufacturer EXPECTS that a new plug will be installed AND the motor be rewired. 

Here is what I would do. Install a new toggle switch, 15 or 20 amperes two poles. (i.e. Switches two circuits) From the line, connect the white and black wires to the line side of the new switch. Connect the black and green wires from the motor to the load side of the switch. Just to be consistent (and no other reason), black from the line should switch through to the black of the motor with white switching through to green.

Plug in and turn on. Does the motor start? Does the motor seem to run without struggling? Does the saw cut? If yes, you're done. Happy woodworking. 

Did the saw seem to struggle to get up to speed? Does the saw stall when attempting to cut? Did the saw just sit there and HUM? If yes, congratulations you are on your way to becoming an electrician. At this point you have two choices. Rewire the shop or rewire the saw. Remember that this is a real possibility based upon the wiring instructions on the motor serial number plate. Connecting the red and yellow wires says 230 volt operation. The power plug in the pictures does not look like a standard, manufacturer supplied power plug, even from 50 years ago.


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## mars (Aug 24, 2010)

Did it work?


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

*Mars, it did not work as you stated?*

Rich, thanks, i understand your points and anything is possible. I would have to go back to the PO to verify some of that.

Mars suggested..


mars said:


> I would put the red and green on the same side of the switch as the black, put the yellow and back on the same side as the white. Leave the green from the power cord on the ground screw. I would also leave the wires from the cord on the switch.


,

When i re-wired it this way, tried to plug it, the cord made a zap sound, so I immediately disconnected in an instant!!!
I believe it was either the wrong way to do it or the wires are mixed up inside somehow..

So what I did was re-wire it the way it was to begin with, plug it in, and it works.

I suppose the biggest culprit in the SWitch not working initially, was the saw dust (alot of it).


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## javnjavnot (Dec 2, 2010)

*Reply for Rich*

To further confuse the issue, the model number on the motor plate, 83-510 comes up as a drill press model number.

This is just the motor model # - not the model # for the saw.

The confusing part is that we are not used to seeing switches that have been wired for 115/230 volt operation. The switch in your saw is switching both the hot and neutral during 115 volt operation. This is unusual in our minds but perfectly normal in dual voltage operations. The key to understanding the switch between voltages is that the manufacturer EXPECTS that a new plug will be installed AND the motor be rewired. 

Here is what I would do. Install a new toggle switch, 15 or 20 amperes two poles. (i.e. Switches two circuits) From the line, connect the white and black wires to the line side of the new switch. Connect the black and green wires from the motor to the load side of the switch. Just to be consistent (and no other reason), black from the line should switch through to the black of the motor with white switching through to green.

Why can't I do this with the existing switch? all i would have to do is switch the green and black coming from motor. Right now the black is switched thru to the green and white is switched thru to the black of the motor.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

javnjavnot said:


> Why can't I do this with the existing switch? all i would have to do is switch the green and black coming from motor. Right now the black is switched thru to the green and white is switched thru to the black of the motor.


You could try, but you said that the PO said that the switch was bad. That was my reason for saying to replace the switch.


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## H. A. S. (Sep 23, 2010)

If I found that much sawdust in that small switch...get your meter out and check it. May still work?


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## rjmartist (Nov 6, 2018)

delta band saw wont start after sitting for a wile


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

:vs_OMG:


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