# Clear finishing Doug Fir exterior door



## Salmonid (Feb 8, 2011)

Hi,
I am replacing my front door with a Douglas Fir clear finish grade door. After much research and contemplation I have decided to varnish with Epiphanes Clear Varnish. The door was just built so the wood looks very raw and light colored. I do not want to stain but do want to bring out the grain a bit and add a little amber hue to the wood. I was going to initialy seal with Dalys Ship and Shore but it does not add any appeciable tint to the wood. I also bought some Dalys Benite sealant but have not tried it yet. Any suggestions on how to add a touch of amber and enrich the grain appearance? I have a small can of Minwax stain "Natural 209". Anyone used this? Is it a stain or is a penetrating oil? Would it work over a sealant like Benite or Ship and Shore?
Thanks,
Thomas


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

You do not want a true clear finish on exterior wood anyways, not just for aesthetic reasons. You need UV protection. So your varnish is probably not truly clear since it has UV protectants in it. It will probably give you an amber hue. Have you done a test piece?

If you do a test piece and it is not dark enough for you, I would think you would want a pigmented stain over a dye stain so you can add in some more UV protection.

I'm not real familiar with epifanes other than it is a good product. I use sikkens cetol for my doors. So I'll leave it to others to recommend exactly which stain to use.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

a varnish will bring out the grain a bit. unstained df doors bleach ( lighten ) quickly, turning gray even with uv protection. i agree with sketel on the aesthetic's of a clear df door. like having a beige corvette. im in the door finishing buiz and light is not in right now, not that there's anything wrong with it.
i would go a gel stain, light color like a salem maple. im not much into dye's. i use zar stains and man-o-war spar varnish, and in 30 yrs ive never had a failure. i dont like to seal the wood any more than the stain does, i thin my first varnish coat about 30%. that gives a good seal with the same materiel. if im going natural, i may do two coats thinned, depending on the wood.
epiphanes not a bad product.


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## Salmonid (Feb 8, 2011)

Sketel and Jack,

Thanks for the recomendations. I have not done a test piece with Epiphanes yet but my local marine supply store has test pieces for all the varnish and clear coatings they carry. The Epiphanes was the clearest but it was hard to tell as the finish was on Teak. As rumor has it Epiphanes has a high level of UV resistance so they somehow get it done with a clearer poduct. I am curious about Cetol as Sikkens descibes it as a Oil/Varnish combination. The test piece I saw was very amber/yellow so I though it might be too much. Sikkens also states that Cetol is porous so it allows the wood to breath. Am I correct to assume that one would want to put some UV resitant varnish over the Cetol? I am am bit concerned about using a stain as Doug Fir tends to take up stain unevenly and one gets a highly contrasting light and dark stipe effect. I will check out the Salem Maple stain as I was born in Salem Mass:laughing:.

Thanks,

Thomas


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

Cetol is a breathable film finish. The first coat is a translucent color coat with a lot of UV inhibitors. Then you can either put on another color coat followed by a clear coat for more UV protection or just two clear coats. 

The big advantage is that it is very easy to maintain. It will eventually get wear marks which just means it is time for a fresh coat. You then wash the door with tsp, or similar eco-friendly product, let dry and put on a fresh coat.

Their natural color looks yellow when you are putting it on, especially under florescent lights, but it mellows out. Here's a picture of a couple doors I did recently with their natural color base coat. The top one has a fresh coat on it, scroll down for a picture of what the finish cures to.


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## Salmonid (Feb 8, 2011)

Sketel,

Those are nice looking doors! What you have done is very close to what I was thinking. Are those doors Doug Fir or are they Yellow Cedar (Nootka Cypress)? Do you think 3 coats of Cetol base coat is enough for a South facing door in Seattle? A realy like that Cetol can be recoated without stripping the old finish off. Thanks again for your help. I am contempalting adding a wood screen door so I will look you up if I decide to do so.

Thomas


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

South facing with no overhang could last as little as a year before you have to put on another coat. Since you're in Seattle, it might last a little longer, it's actually the sun that breaks down a finish more than rain.

Both those doors on the page I sent you to are douglas fir. The one on the top was freshly applied and was under florescent light so it looks really yellow. The other door towards the bottom of the page had cured for over a week and you can see a lot of the yellow is gone.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

Salmonid said:


> Sketel and Jack,
> 
> Thanks for the recomendations. I have not done a test piece with Epiphanes yet but my local marine supply store has test pieces for all the varnish and clear coatings they carry. The Epiphanes was the clearest but it was hard to tell as the finish was on Teak. As rumor has it Epiphanes has a high level of UV resistance so they somehow get it done with a clearer poduct. I am curious about Cetol as Sikkens descibes it as a Oil/Varnish combination. The test piece I saw was very amber/yellow so I though it might be too much. Sikkens also states that Cetol is porous so it allows the wood to breath. Am I correct to assume that one would want to put some UV resitant varnish over the Cetol? I am am bit concerned about using a stain as Doug Fir tends to take up stain unevenly and one gets a highly contrasting light and dark stipe effect. I will check out the Salem Maple stain as I was born in Salem Mass:laughing:.
> 
> ...


i wipe the door down with generous amount of mineral spirits then use the gel stain about 10 min later. that pretty much kills any blotching. it will also stain lighter.

i dont like to give my customers something that requires once a yr maintenance like sikkens will need. it usually doesnt get done then the door starts looking crappy. with the man-o-war my finishes dont need refreshed for 5-6 yrs and with no sun 10-12 yrs. imo man-o-war is the best uv protecting varnishes out there. it is a little more amber than others. df will darken and yellow on it own with age even with a film coat, thats just the way it is.


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

1 year is under extreme conditions. You can expect it to last about 60% as long as man o war when exposed to similar conditions. But at the end of that time period sikkens just needs to be washed with one fresh coat whereas man o war needs to be refinished. 

The thing I don't like about man o war is that when it cracks it can absorb moisture through the cracks then it traps it under the finish so I've seen a lot of doors ruined that way, especially the bottom rail. It doesn't take much to ruin the veneer on a commercially built door. Then the refinishing process is a lot more labor intensive. That's why I use sikkens but Jack has a good point about man o war lasting longer.


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## Salmonid (Feb 8, 2011)

Jack and Sketel,

This is realy helpful information. The door is protected by an overhang but we do get lots of wind and rain as we are close to Puget Sound. We definitely have problems with polyurithane and varnish forming black mold under the finish where it gets cracks which is why I like the Cetol idea. I looked at the Sikkens site and realized they have many different Cetol products including, SRD, SRD250, WB SRD, Door and Window ect. Which product(s) did you use on the doors in the picture? 
Thanks again,

Thomas


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Here are some things to keep in mind. All film finishes used as an exterior finish will fail...some sooner some later. When they do, they become chalky, crispy, and some will separate from the wood. Exterior spar varnishes are a long oil version of an exterior varnish, with UV inhibitors. What that means is that they have a high oil content to retain some flexibility to deal with temperature changes, and the weather/climate in general.

Finishes like Epiphanes are costly, and the label recommends something like 5-7 coats. Well, why not encase the door in plastic...that might keep the weather off of it. While that door is completely sealed, there still exists the movement issues, and the ability of the wood to absorb and emit air as a natural function. Fact is this all happens inside of the finish. Is failure eminent? 

I've gone through the refinishing of woodwork that's been done with spar varnishes. My bout with Interlux "Schooner" spar varnish on a Mahogany front door I made that faces West. A lot of sanding to refinish. A major PITA. I guess the older I get, I look to minimize my workload and stresses. A natural oil finish needs very little maintenance other than a cleaning wipe and a re-oiling. You might consider that or a product like Penofin (red label).












 







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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> Here are some things to keep in mind. All film finishes used as an exterior finish will fail...some sooner some later. When they do, they become chalky, crispy, and some will separate from the wood.
> .


This comment is true but does not apply to sikkens. It will fail eventually but it simply wears off and you can put another coat on without stripping and it will look fine. At the most you will have to scrub it with a plastic brush. As you mentioned, it is also breathable so it will not trap moisture under the finish. It will peel if the wood has too high a moisture content before applying the finish though. It will also peel if you put too much on so it is important to apply 3 even coats.

I used cetol door and window on those doors, the cetol 1-2-3 system works just as well on doors.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Salmonid said:


> ......The door is protected by an overhang but we do get lots of wind and rain as we are close to Puget Sound. We definitely have problems with polyurithane and varnish forming black mold under the finish where it gets cracks which is why I like the Cetol idea. .............


If the door is protected by an overhang and doesnt get much sun, the Epifanes will last a long time. Epifanes like most finishes are destroyed more by UV than anything else. As far as durability, Epifanes is like bullet proof. I walk on it every day - I live on my boat. If your wood is dry and properly prepared, mold should not get under it. I live in the Houston-Galveston area of Texas on the Gulf of Mexico. Our summers here are brutal. On areas where ther is exposure to the sun 24/7 it will last 1 1/2 years between recoatings. On areas such as my doors that get sun about 1/3 of the day, the Epifanes lasts about 4 to 5 years between coatings. 
As for Cetol, thats a personal matter. I just dont like the way it looks. To me it looks like watered down paint. If you use their really clear stuff, it;s not that durable. 
The whole trick is to never let the finish completely degrade. Down here for 24/7 exposure that means once a year - just a pressure wash and a light sanding and 3 new fresh coats.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

Salmonid said:


> Jack and Sketel,
> 
> This is realy helpful information. The door is protected by an overhang but we do get lots of wind and rain as we are close to Puget Sound. We definitely have problems with polyurithane and varnish forming black mold under the finish where it gets cracks which is why I like the Cetol idea. I looked at the Sikkens site and realized they have many different Cetol products including, SRD, SRD250, WB SRD, Door and Window ect. Which product(s) did you use on the doors in the picture?
> Thanks again,
> ...


the prob i with sikkens is cetol 23 doesnt spray a nice finish. it works great on garage doors and fences, decks. it just doesnt look right for me on entries.


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

Jack, good point. You need to brush it on so you will have some brush marks. It takes 24 hours to cure though so in that time it levels out reasonably well. The disadvantage to the long cure time is it is impossible to get a dust-free finish without a booth or something similar.


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## gdstuart (Jul 14, 2013)

*www.columbiawoodscreendoors.com not alive*

sketel, do you have another website with your pictures? www.columbiawoodscreendoors.com isn't found.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Probably because it's a 2 1/2 year old post!

Please read the date on these old threads before reviving them.

or

Just start your own thread instead of piggybacking on old ones.


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