# Gray stain on oak



## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Wondering if I should give up.

Building a desk and really wanted it a gray color. But have tested a few stains on red oak. Only have the box stores close. So red oak is what I tried.
Can get anything else at a true lumber store. But that means driving over an hour. Not easy if I need a little more. And not sure maple or something else will be better. But I am willing if need be.

Looking for a even uniform appearance like you would see on factory furniture or pre finished gray flooring. floor.
Medium to dark gray.

When I try on oak the red seems to be visible giving it a blotchy look.
So far tried Miniwax classic gray and varathane carbon gray.

More important to have a uniform factory looking finish. Should I give up on gray.

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## J_L (Apr 22, 2014)

A uniform gray is going to be a sprayed on finish. I normally use a lacquer based wiping stain and wipe on a coat and wipe off immediately to get the base color. Then I'd spray the same color lightly over the entire piece to give it the tone I'm looking for. 

Along those same lines you could get a universal tint and tint your top coats with some black to get you the gray you're looking for. Again, this would have to be applied with a sprayer to look uniform.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

How about steel wool and vinegar?

https://www.diypete.com/how-to-make-steel-wool-and-vinegar-stain/


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Can you post a picture of the look you are wanting. If it's what I think it is you could use an oil based paint and just thin it.


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

Varethane has a fairly new product out to make new wood look like weathered wood, and all the pictures I have seen they look like they applied it to oak and it has a nice gray patina to it

Now if your results will be the same as the pictures, you might get some and tr it on some of you wood to see if that's what you were looking for


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

Here it is


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Buy two very small half pint cans of oil based paint. One black and one white. Buy one can of paint thinner. 
Pour the entire contents of the white paint into a larger container and while stirring constantly add spoonfuls of the black paint until you get the shade gray you want. Pour this desired mix back into the empty paint can until it’s 1/3 full. Add the paint thinner until the can is 3/4 full. Stir or shake until well blended. This is your gray stain. 
The stain can be applied with a brush or a rag but the rag seems to work best. 
If you want to see less grain, add less thinner. If you want to see more grain, add more thinner.


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

J_L said:


> A uniform gray is going to be a sprayed on finish. I normally use a lacquer based wiping stain and wipe on a coat and wipe off immediately to get the base color. Then I'd spray the same color lightly over the entire piece to give it the tone I'm looking for.
> 
> Along those same lines you could get a universal tint and tint your top coats with some black to get you the gray you're looking for. Again, this would have to be applied with a sprayer to look uniform.


Any idea if the varathane stain would work. Does say it drys in an hour.
Having trouble finding one actually called lacquer stain to try spraying

Thanks


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RR78 said:


> Any idea if the varathane stain would work. Does say it drys in an hour.
> Having trouble finding one actually called lacquer stain to try spraying
> 
> Thanks


You would have to find a professional lacquer supplier to find lacquer stain. Lacquer stain is not what it's cut out to be. You just spray it on and let it dry and is difficult to get the color uniform. It's more like you thinned down lacquer paint and sprayed it on. I used to buy it from Superior Coatings in Dallas but soon gave it up because I didn't like the appearance. You would be better off using a stain you could wipe off the excess. If the weathered wood stain is the appearance you are looking for you would save yourself a lot of grief by using it. An hour drying time isn't that bad.


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## J_L (Apr 22, 2014)

RR78 said:


> Any idea if the varathane stain would work. Does say it drys in an hour.
> Having trouble finding one actually called lacquer stain to try spraying
> 
> Thanks


I don't see why you couldn't do the same technique with the varathane. It is a mineral spirits based stain. I'd still do the wipe on/wipe off then thin some out and spray a light tone coat over everything. Practice on some scrap and see how much or how little you need to spray.


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## J_L (Apr 22, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> You would have to find a professional lacquer supplier to find lacquer stain. Lacquer stain is not what it's cut out to be. You just spray it on and let it dry and is difficult to get the color uniform. It's more like you thinned down lacquer paint and sprayed it on. I used to buy it from Superior Coatings in Dallas but soon gave it up because I didn't like the appearance. You would be better off using a stain you could wipe off the excess. If the weathered wood stain is the appearance you are looking for you would save yourself a lot of grief by using it. An hour drying time isn't that bad.


I found that if you don't double coat with the lacquer stain, it looks like crap - just like you're saying. I usually spray on a heavy coat and wipe off immediately which leaves a blotchy base color that looks ugly as sin. Then I'd turn down the gun and spray a nice tone coat and even everything out and it looks great. It does take a bit of practice not to get racing stripes from overlapping spray passes though. 

Best part is by the time you finish cleaning the stain out of your gun the stain is dry and you're ready to spray some sealer.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

J_L said:


> I found that if you don't double coat with the lacquer stain, it looks like crap - just like you're saying. I usually spray on a heavy coat and wipe off immediately which leaves a blotchy base color that looks ugly as sin. Then I'd turn down the gun and spray a nice tone coat and even everything out and it looks great. It does take a bit of practice not to get racing stripes from overlapping spray passes though.
> 
> Best part is by the time you finish cleaning the stain out of your gun the stain is dry and you're ready to spray some sealer.


They told me at Superior Coatings where I bought it not to wipe their lacquer stain, just spray it on like a dye stain and start shooting sealer. I could maybe see it working on modern fixtures but at the time I was refinishing antiques and I couldn't see that stain ever working for that purpose. I just quit using it and never tried it again.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

A lacquer stain goes on about the same as a spray-on Toner. Almost no penetration. It basically just lays on the top of the wood. An oil based stain can be a deeper penetrating stain that actually sinks color into the wood somewhat. I prefer a penetrating stain. 
Gray is one of the easier colors to stain wood.


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

Or get some industrial ammonia, build a tent over the the piece and let the ammonia fumes penetrate the oak it will turn it a very nice looking gray

I haven't done it for a while, but when I did I used R717 anhydrous ammonia refrigerant, I guessed it was about 10% ammonia in water, it was plenty strong


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> Can you post a picture of the look you are wanting. If it's what I think it is you could use an oil based paint and just thin it.


Something more like these. Have tried to attach a couple. But dont want to see any of the gold natural wood color thru the stain. Most seem to be a pickled look.


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Had to do another post to add the other one


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Toolman50 said:


> A lacquer stain goes on about the same as a spray-on Toner. Almost no penetration. It basically just lays on the top of the wood. An oil based stain can be a deeper penetrating stain that actually sinks color into the wood somewhat. I prefer a penetrating stain.
> Gray is one of the easier colors to stain wood.


Not sure how you can say Gray is one of the easier ones. I can even take a red tone. And not see any of the natural gold tone of the wood thru it like with gray. This is what I DONT want below.
And up close looks even worse. But not to bad from a distance.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think the varathane weathered wood that catpower suggested would do that. On oak you might have to add some black tinting color or some black latex paint to make it darker but it should work. What ever product you use you should try it on scraps first and see how the color does.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

RR78 said:


> Not sure how you can say Gray is one of the easier ones. I can even take a red tone. And not see any of the natural gold tone of the wood thru it like with gray. This is what I DONT want below.
> And up close looks even worse. But not to bad from a distance.


The image shown was not fully stained. It could be caused by several things including:
* not enough stain applied
* wiped off too quick 
* used too much thinner. Remember from above post— for more grain, add more thinner. For less grain, use less thinner. 
Gray is an easy stain compared to many.


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Toolman50 said:


> The image shown was not fully stained. It could be caused by several things including:
> * not enough stain applied
> * wiped off too quick
> * used too much thinner. Remember from above post— for more grain, add more thinner. For less grain, use less thinner.
> Gray is an easy stain compared to many.


I can tell you my sample came out the same. And that was with 4 coats and even trying to use it as a glaze on a number of sample. Also if you goggle you find all the flooring companies have the same problem on red oak.

Can also goggle and find plenty of pictures of gray stain on red oak from all sources. And they also will have the golden bleed thru.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RR78 said:


> I can tell you my sample came out the same. And that was with 4 coats and even trying to use it as a glaze on a number of sample. Also if you goggle you find all the flooring companies have the same problem on red oak.
> 
> Can also goggle and find plenty of pictures of gray stain on red oak from all sources. And they also will have the golden bleed thru.


You shouldn't ever use four coats of stain. If you manage to get any of it dried on the surface it won't bond like paint, it will peal off. If the color isn't going dark enough for you, you need a more concentrated stain. More black and white pigment needs to be added to the stain. 

You can counteract the red in the oak by using a green dye. The color green will neutralize red.


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> You shouldn't ever use four coats of stain. If you manage to get any of it dried on the surface it won't bond like paint, it will peal off. If the color isn't going dark enough for you, you need a more concentrated stain. More black and white pigment needs to be added to the stain.
> 
> You can counteract the red in the oak by using a green dye. The color green will neutralize red.


Yes I know. This was on a scrape to test after one or 2 coats allowed the bleed thru. Just to see if anything would work. 

Have 3 or 4 other gray stains on order to see if something will work. 

Also the gray looks a little better over a ebony stain so far.

Really wanted a oil stain. But may even try a gel stain over a thinned white paint.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RR78 said:


> Yes I know. This was on a scrape to test after one or 2 coats allowed the bleed thru. Just to see if anything would work.
> 
> Have 3 or 4 other gray stains on order to see if something will work.
> 
> ...


To get more a more concentrated stain you can use oil based paint and thin it as needed. There isn't a great deal of difference between stain and paint. Paint is like you added varnish to stain and less thinner.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> To get more a more concentrated stain you can use oil based paint and thin it as needed. There isn't a great deal of difference between stain and paint. Paint is like you added varnish to stain and less thinner.


This is what I suggested in an earlier post on the gray stain. 
Add thinner for more grain. Less thinner for less grain using a stain made with oil based paints. >

If applied a little heavier the the pink and tans vanish. 
But you can’t keep applying stain on top of stain. It needs to be color tested on scrap and applied in a single application. I suggest applying with a rag instead of a brush.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Toolman50 said:


> This is what I suggested in an earlier post on the gray stain.
> Add thinner for more grain. Less thinner for less grain using a stain made with oil based paints. >
> 
> If applied a little heavier the the pink and tans vanish.
> But you can’t keep applying stain on top of stain. It needs to be color tested on scrap and applied in a single application. I suggest applying with a rag instead of a brush.


This was the second time for me, I suggested paint in post 4. The problem with oak is some of it can be really red and it's difficult to do gray over. You just have to tinker with it until you get the color you want.


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Toolman50 said:


> Buy two very small half pint cans of oil based paint. One black and one white. Buy one can of paint thinner.
> Pour the entire contents of the white paint into a larger container and while stirring constantly add spoonfuls of the black paint until you get the shade gray you want. Pour this desired mix back into the empty paint can until it’s 1/3 full. Add the paint thinner until the can is 3/4 full. Stir or shake until well blended. This is your gray stain.
> The stain can be applied with a brush or a rag but the rag seems to work best.
> If you want to see less grain, add less thinner. If you want to see more grain, add more thinner.



This was one of the things I will try also. If I just end up using as a base. Could I also try the stain over this?

Thanks


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

RR78 said:


> This was one of the things I will try also. If I just end up using as a base. Could I also try the stain over this?
> 
> Thanks


No. This is your stain. 
The paint will sink into the pores and seal the wood. Another stain will not work well after you stain with this mix. Use scrap wood of the same type to sample your color. Using back and front of your scraps you can get several samples on a small amount of wood. Once you have your color choice start over with new scrap wood as you add the thinner to get the look your after. Too little thinner, the project will look painted. Too much thinner and you will have the pink and tan grain showing again. 
You sample woods should be sanded to match the project so it will look the same when the gray stain is applied with a rag. 
Good luck.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

One more thing. In the old days all the stains were home made in the shops. 
Furniture and cabinet guys used a mix of colors like raw umber in turpentine and paint thinner to get the brown, red or dark colors they wanted. 
Today we buy everything in the can pre-mixed and ready to go. 
Colors change from one manufacture to the next. When you find a stain you like, make a note of it. You may choose that color throughout your house.


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## RR78 (Nov 23, 2017)

Thanks everyone. And posting my experience in case it helps the next person. I enjoy woodworking and spent a bit of time and couple hundred for samples to do some testing. 
Materials included oil based paints, just about every gray stain I could find. 2 water based, 1 oil gel and 5 oil based stains.
5 different gray powered wood dyes mixed with water.

Did not try any lacquer products, vinegar or ammonia.
I was using red oak wood only which I think was the main problem. And also the reason if you spend hours on the internet looking at pics from flooring companies to other woodworkers you fine they all had the same results.

The amber or natural wood color will show thru to some degree unless you put something on so thick it hides the grain and looks like paint.

Learned a bit on dyes. Really like the product and can see me using them for other colors.
Just forget the grays. They go on anywhere from a amber, brown or almost black. Have to play with how you mix. But you can easily get them to dry to really nice even gray color wood. Just what I was looking for. Problem is you cant keep the color. Unless maybe under just a sheet of glass.
Any and all topcoats you put on will change them from the really nice different grays to more typical amber and browns stain colors. Topcoats included water and oil based poloys and then tried light coat grey stains over them. Just made the stains look like the were dirty or you added mud to them,

In my unprofessional opinion. The best you can do is the simplest and happens to be the first products that I actually bought and tried.
Rustoleum oil based wood stains. Carbon gray for very dark gray, weathered gray for dark gray. I will most likely end up using weather gray with some of there antique white for a more light actual gray.

All the products except the dyes consider gray to be what I would call a little bit of blue gray.

I am trying one other thing but dont have much hope. Dyes were transfast and the wdlockwood ones were the best and a good company to work with. They did say the amber showing thru is a problem. But suggested I try a mix and add in some water poloy to help some. 
I will try, but it would have to help a lot.
They go from very nice grays to what I would call dirty browns or mud mixed in with brown stains.

But for all other colors I do think dyes would be great. And pretty cheap for the amount of product you end up with. And you can mix to make the color darker or lighter. Easy and quick.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

On actual weathered wood the sun and water has bleached out the natural red of the wood. It's difficult to reproduce this with chemicals. You might try using clorox bleach on the wood and maybe using a green dye prior to using the gray stain. You would have to soak it in clorox for quite a while as it is difficult to get rid of a natural wood color.


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