# Cleaning Shellac brushes



## jrshall (Sep 25, 2019)

I am a snowbird, and am currently in the Palm Springs, CA area. I love using shellac for my go to finish. However, since getting down here, I have discovered that Riverside county, CA has prohibited the sale of denatured alcohol because of the VOCs. Seems crazy, since they still allow acetone, paint and lacquer thinners, and other cleaners. Anyway, I am looking for suggestions on how to clean my equipment after using shellac. I have done some research and found using ammonia and water may work. Also, some sites mention acetone, but others don't.

So, my question is whether anyone here has used alternatives to denatured alcohol, and how they worked? I also considered getting isopropyl alcohol at the drugstore and using it (or maybe just use vodka).

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Jerry


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## Jay_L (Oct 16, 2020)

Ammonia followed by soap & water only if synthetic bristles. The water will wreck natural bristles.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You could use lacquer thinner. It contains denatured alcohol. It wouldn't be as effective but rubbing alcohol would work. The vodka is probably more expensive than the brushes. I've quit washing brushes used with anything but latex because of the cost of the solvents. Solvents have gotten really expensive and the cheap brushes are getting better so I use them and throw them away.


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## jrshall (Sep 25, 2019)

Thanks for the feedback. Cheap brushes are an option, but don't leave as smooth a finish. I like using alcohol because it is quick and easy. I could leave the brush in a jar of alcohol while waiting to apply another coat. I may try rubbing alcohol and see how it works. My vodka comment was mostly tongue in cheek, although there are some really cheap ones around.

Jerry


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> You could use lacquer thinner. It contains denatured alcohol. It wouldn't be as effective but rubbing alcohol would work. The vodka is probably more expensive than the brushes. I've quit washing brushes used with anything but latex because of the cost of the solvents. Solvents have gotten really expensive and the cheap brushes are getting better so I use them and throw them away.


Sorry, but genuine lacquer thinner is also banned in the SCAQMD. If they sell any products labelled lacquer thinner here, it isn't what everyone uses in the rest of the country. Most likely it is acetone based.

SCAQMD = South Coast Air Quality Management District = Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, and San Bernardino Counties. The SCAQMD has banned most common solvents used in woodworking, such as mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, denatured alcohol, Japan drier, many oil finishes, and much more. Many (most?) of the same solvents are also banned throughout California by CARB = California Air Resources Board, too.

You can buy special local versions of "mineral spirits" or "paint thinner", but they ain't the stuff you knew. They have issues, especially when you mix them with products labeled "thin with mineral spirits", etc. I am willing learn to live with the new solvents, but I insist that they label them with what chemicals they really contain, so I can understand and learn to work with them. Right now, there is no honesty in the labelling, and they treat us as if we are stupid, with no respect.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

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www.msdsonline.com


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Sorry, but genuine lacquer thinner is also banned in the SCAQMD. If they sell any products labelled lacquer thinner here, it isn't what everyone uses in the rest of the country. Most likely it is acetone based.
> 
> SCAQMD = South Coast Air Quality Management District = Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, and San Bernardino Counties. The SCAQMD has banned most common solvents used in woodworking, such as mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, denatured alcohol, Japan drier, many oil finishes, and much more. Many (most?) of the same solvents are also banned throughout California by CARB = California Air Resources Board, too.
> 
> You can buy special local versions of "mineral spirits" or "paint thinner", but they ain't the stuff you knew. They have issues, especially when you mix them with products labeled "thin with mineral spirits", etc. I am willing learn to live with the new solvents, but I insist that they label them with what chemicals they really contain, so I can understand and learn to work with them. Right now, there is no honesty in the labelling, and they treat us as if we are stupid, with no respect.


I know they make a low odor paint thinner that isn't worth using but I've never heard of a different lacquer thinner. The OP said they could get lacquer thinner so I recommended it. I found a MSDS for lacquer thinner in California and it said it contained ethanol. Still if acetone only was used that would clean shellac off brushes. Acetone is in all lacquer thinner. 

I think if I lived in California I would have to go into Arizona or someplace annually and stock up.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

jrshall said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Cheap brushes are an option, but don't leave as smooth a finish. I like using alcohol because it is quick and easy. I could leave the brush in a jar of alcohol while waiting to apply another coat. I may try rubbing alcohol and see how it works. My vodka comment was mostly tongue in cheek, although there are some really cheap ones around.
> 
> Jerry


If you have compressed air a cheap sprayer would solve a lot of problems. Shellac is a finish better sprayed.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I guess you could use Everclear from the liquor store ($$$) or maybe even isopropyl alcohol (only for cleanup) but one of the things I love about shellac is that you really don't _need_ to clean the brushes. You can just shape the bristles to their proper shape and let it harden; then soak the brush in shellac just prior to the next use.


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## David Nickell (Jul 6, 2020)

Is driving across the state line an option?


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

speaking of washing brushes with soap . . . . . 
I have been using Dawn dish soap after the final wash of spirits or brush cleaners.
I must say, I notice a significant improvement of cleaning the brushes with the Powerwash.
squirt a little in the palm of your and hand and vigorously massage it into the ferrule.
rinse well (very well) squeeze the water out of the bristles and put the brush away.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

David Nickell said:


> Is driving across the state line an option?


It is difficult to interpret that question.

The answer is yes, driving to Arizona, Nevada, or Oregon is an option. If you live in the four counties of the SCAQMD, you may also find what you need in adjacent San Diego County or Ventura County as long as the solvent isn't banned throughout the state.

It is against the rules to bring in banned solvents. I am not a lawyer, so I do not know whether "against the rules" means "against regulations", "against the law", or something else, or whether it makes a difference. I do not know who enforces the bans and prosecutes abuses. The enforcement authorities may be different between the the State and the SCAQMD. I do not know whether the small quantities brought in by individuals is a concern for the authorities. They may be focused on industrial quantities and abuses, or it may be that small individual quantities are so dispersed that enforcement is not cost effective. I do not know the penalties if you are caught.

I know people who have brought in banned solvents to their home workshops, but I do not know anyone who was caught.

When I travel for business or pleasure in other states and I have spare time, I enjoy visiting a local woodworking store or two to see what wood they have, how much it costs, and what gadgets they carry that I don't see at the local Rockler and Woodcraft. I have never noticed a separate section labeled, "Banned Solvents for California Tourists."

I have seen giant signs selling "FIREWORKS!!" on various borders. I have also seen giant signs like that selling "JACK DANIEL'S!!" in Alabama next to the border of the dry county in Tennessee where Jack Daniels is distilled. I have never seen giant signs advertising SOLVENTS!! on the other side of the California border.

Note to self:
Do not get caught driving a carload of banned solvents, fireworks, and Jack Daniels. That combination sounds very dangerous to me. :-o


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## jrshall (Sep 25, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the info. I think I will pick up a bottle of rubbing alcohol and give it a try. i do mostly smaller projects, so a sprayer would not be too useful. I guess I could also buy the spray on shellac.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

The Spray can of Seal Coat ain't great... I don't know what the propellant is, but it seems to create a lot of bubbles when it hits the surface; it's almost like it's boiling. I also find the atomization hard to control in the rattle can. BTW, even a cheap spray gun sprays shellac beautifully.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Everybody but one person is overcomplicating things by debating different types of solvent and the legality of such...

Guys, its shellac. Ammonia destroys shellac, simple as that. If youre using paint guns, soak the parts in ammonia. If youre using brushes, rinse the bristles in ammonia. Follow up with soad and water. No need for any other solvents


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

The guys at SCAQMD and CARB have to be Junior Rocket Scientists. Yes, they have banned Denatured Alcohol.

This is a secret that we don't want the Junior Rocket Scientists to find out. 
Denatured Alcohol is also known as Ethanol.
At the gas pump, ordinary gasoline contains about 10% Ethanol and E-85 is up to 85% Ethanol. 

So it is OK to buy the stuff at the gas pump by multiple gallons but not in quart cans. 
Makes perfectly logical sense to me.


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## sunnybob (Sep 3, 2016)

How do you dilute your shellac?
I use denatured alcohol (known in Europe as methylated spirits) to melt the shellac flakes.
Next time you have a product to finish, try wiping the shellac on with a scrap of clean dry cotton (old T shirt).
I gave up using brushes because of the faff of cleaning. I use wipe on for all my shellac and polyeurethane finishes now.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

sunnybob said:


> How do you dilute your shellac?
> I use denatured alcohol (known in Europe as methylated spirits) to melt the shellac flakes.
> Next time you have a product to finish, try wiping the shellac on with a scrap of clean dry cotton (old T shirt).
> I gave up using brushes because of the faff of cleaning. I use wipe on for all my shellac and polyeurethane finishes now.


That's a great question. I see dry shellac flakes on the shelves at the woodworking store and wonder the same thing. Options include:

Whatever old stock of denatured alcohol you still have on hand.
Using expensive high potency liquor. Everclear is 151 proof (75% alcohol) here. Is that good enough? I have heard of versions of Everclear that are 191 proof, but I am not sure it is sold or allowed here.
I have heard of people trying isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). I do not know if it works.
Yeah, some woodworkers violate the rules to buy denatured alcohol from outside the state and bring it in. My guess is that is what most woodworkers do.
When denatured alcohol disappeared from shelves in hardware stores and woodworking stores, you could still buy the exact same product as "alcohol stove fuel" at the camping stores. I have some stock on hand from buying it at REI Coop (camping store). The state closed that loophole over a year ago. Today you can buy it to burn it in your car (as @NoThankyou pointed out), but not for your camping stove. I have no idea what people burn in their alcohol camping stoves instead.

In case people are wondering, the environmental pollution problem is not the ethanol/methanol itself in the atmosphere. The pollutants are the byproducts from when the sun breaks down atmospheric alcohol through photochemical reactions.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Tool Agnostic said:


> That's a great question. I see dry shellac flakes on the shelves at the woodworking store and wonder the same thing. Options include:
> 
> Whatever old stock of denatured alcohol you still have on hand.
> Using expensive high potency liquor. Everclear is 151 proof (75% alcohol) here. Is that good enough? I have heard of versions of Everclear that are 191 proof, but I am not sure it is sold or allowed here.
> ...


I think the environmental problem is a ruse to hinder manufacturing in this country so another country, perhaps china can take the manufacturing leadership.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

Back in the days of my youth, my Dad used gasoline to clean everything. Sure, it's flammable, but so are most solvents. Used in well ventilated areas with a little bit of common sense, it's no worse than many other options.
To finish cleaning with gasoline, follow up with a wash of hot water and Dawn dishwashing liquid.

Just to be politically correct: The above suggestion is not a recommendation. Do not try this at home. Use particular care when handling gasoline. Do not let children handle gasoline. Do not even let children see you when thinking of using gasoline. Seek professional psychiatric care if you even think of using gasoline for anything other than engine fuel.

The above comments are not supported by the management.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

mikechell said:


> Back in the days of my youth, my Dad used gasoline to clean everything. Sure, it's flammable, but so are most solvents. Used in well ventilated areas with a little bit of common sense, it's no worse than many other options.
> To finish cleaning with gasoline, follow up with a wash of hot water and Dawn dishwashing liquid.
> 
> Just to be politically correct: The above suggestion is not a recommendation. Do not try this at home. Use particular care when handling gasoline. Do not let children handle gasoline. Do not even let children see you when thinking of using gasoline. Seek professional psychiatric care if you even think of using gasoline for anything other than engine fuel.
> ...


Actually gasoline was invented as a cleaning solvent before someone else got the idea of using it as fuel.


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## sancho57 (Oct 23, 2011)

jrshall said:


> I am a snowbird, and am currently in the Palm Springs, CA area. I love using shellac for my go to finish. However, since getting down here, I have discovered that Riverside county, CA has prohibited the sale of denatured alcohol because of the VOCs. Seems crazy, since they still allow acetone, paint and lacquer thinners, and other cleaners. Anyway, I am looking for suggestions on how to clean my equipment after using shellac. I have done some research and found using ammonia and water may work. Also, some sites mention acetone, but others don't.
> 
> So, my question is whether anyone here has used alternatives to denatured alcohol, and how they worked? I also considered getting isopropyl alcohol at the drugstore and using it (or maybe just use vodka).
> 
> ...


I though so to. I bought some button polish flakes that I had to soak in alcohol So I went to Lowes and found that they still sell it under the guise of window cleaner go to lowes youll find tons of it the shelves


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## sancho57 (Oct 23, 2011)

sancho57 said:


> I though so to. I bought some button polish flakes that I had to soak in alcohol So I went to Lowes and found that they still sell it under the guise of window cleaner go to lowes youll find tons of it the shelves


It was under the clean strip brand in the paint dept but that was around last April things could of changed


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## kiwi_outdoors (Jan 15, 2020)

John Smith_inFL said:


> speaking of washing brushes with soap . . . . .
> I have been using Dawn dish soap after the final wash of spirits or brush cleaners.
> I must say, I notice a significant improvement of cleaning the brushes with the Powerwash.
> squirt a little in the palm of your and hand and vigorously massage it into the ferrule.
> ...


I use plain soap and water for my final wash of paint brushes, then a couple of rinses.


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