# HELP!!! polycrylic vs laquer spray vs polyurethane spray



## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

Hello. I am trying to finish a frame which I stripped, stained with Miniwax Water-Based Express Colour Stain, then coated with Miniwax Clear Gloss Polycrylic. The first coat looked decent but I tried to touch it up anyway and made it worse. So I sanded it down and tried a coat of Miniwax Clear Aerosol Lacquer Spray Clear Satin, and it looks worse. I'm not sure if the satin finish simply looks more matte than I expected, humidity played a factor or it just didn't work with the polycrylic. So i have the clear satin lacquer spray, the clear gloss polycrylic, and also fast-drying clear satin polyurethane spray. I feel like I should sand the lacquer down and give the polycrylic another shot. Would that work? Thanks for taking the time to read my long explanation!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Teela said:


> Hello. I am trying to finish a frame which I stripped, stained with Miniwax Water-Based Express Colour Stain, then coated with Miniwax Clear Gloss Polycrylic. The first coat looked decent but I tried to touch it up anyway and made it worse. So I sanded it down and tried a coat of Miniwax Clear Aerosol Lacquer Spray Clear Satin, and it looks worse. I'm not sure if the satin finish simply looks more matte than I expected, humidity played a factor or it just didn't work with the polycrylic. So i have the clear satin lacquer spray, the clear gloss polycrylic, and also fast-drying clear satin polyurethane spray. I feel like I should sand the lacquer down and give the polycrylic another shot. Would that work? Thanks for taking the time to read my long explanation!


You really shouldn't mix products. If you start with polycrylic you should stay with it. Lacquer won't bond very well to polycrylic. With any finish when a satin finish is desired you should finish with gloss until the last coat. The flattening agent that makes a finish satin looks like baby powder and the more of it that gets in the finish tends to make the finish cloudy. If it is only used on the last coat the finish is clearer. 

When spraying lacquer if the humidy gets close to or above 70% you really shouldn't spray it. It gets moisture trapped in the finish and really gets a milky cast to the finish which is caused blush. There is an additive that helps but you would need a real sprayer instead of a rattle can. Anyway they put this additive (retarder thinner) in rattle can lacquer. 

Without a picture I can't really address your immediate problem with the finish. The problem needs to be addressed before proceeding. It may be fixable or the finish may need to be taken off.


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

I know I definitely screwed up. I'm still learning, and teaching myself so....I didnt realize the spray was satin when I got home but I figured I'd give it a shot. the polycrylic i initially used was my stepfather's and I have no idea how long it was in the basement. When I applied the second coat, there were all kinds of tiny black specks that I thought may have come from the can. Also a bunch of tiny hairs (cat) managed to get under the polycrylic, so I basically had to sand half the thing down again, and then actually re-touch the stain in some parts. I let that dry overnight before spraying it today. I have some photos of the frame before I sprayed it, including close-ups of the hairs and black dots. I can send them to you know while take a photo of the frame as it is now. Thank You SO much for responding! It's for a painting my cousin is putting in a show and the deadline's kinda sneaking up.....So thank you!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

We have an introduction section where you can say a few words about yourself. If you fill out your profile in your "User Control Panel", you can list any hobbies, experience, occupation, or if retired…from what, or other facts. You can also list your general geographical location which would be a help in answering some questions. In doing that your location will show under your username when you post. 

Your immediate problem is that lacquer and WB polyurethane are not compatible. You should strip off what you've done with a chemical stripper, and stick with just one. The Minwax Polycrylic would be the easiest to work with.






















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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Teela said:


> I know I definitely screwed up. I'm still learning, and teaching myself so....I didnt realize the spray was satin when I got home but I figured I'd give it a shot. the polycrylic i initially used was my stepfather's and I have no idea how long it was in the basement. When I applied the second coat, there were all kinds of tiny black specks that I thought may have come from the can. Also a bunch of tiny hairs (cat) managed to get under the polycrylic, so I basically had to sand half the thing down again, and then actually re-touch the stain in some parts. I let that dry overnight before spraying it today. I have some photos of the frame before I sprayed it, including close-ups of the hairs and black dots. I can send them to you know while take a photo of the frame as it is now. Thank You SO much for responding! It's for a painting my cousin is putting in a show and the deadline's kinda sneaking up.....So thank you!


It does sound like the finish was old, however if the debris in the finish was the only problem it could have been strained. You might purchase some #100 cone strainers to keep in case you run across this problem again. Paint companies normally sell a #60 cone strainer which is better for latex paint. You might have to go to an automotive paint store to get the finer mesh.


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

Like I said (or thought I said) I bought a new bottle of acrylic, so that won't be a problem. Now that it's dry, the satin doesn't look bad, but the glossy looked much better. I originally thought the lacquer was water-based, but now I think it's oil, which means I can't out it over the polycrylic right? For some reason I cant get the pictures to upload but I'll try again


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

ok...The first photo is before the lacquer spray (you can't see the issues though) and the rest are all of the frame as it is now.


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

I tried to photo the hairs, specks and bristle marks....If you look closely, you can see.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Teela said:


> Like I said (or thought I said) I bought a new bottle of acrylic, so that won't be a problem. Now that it's dry, the satin doesn't look bad, but the glossy looked much better. I originally thought the lacquer was water-based, but now I think it's oil, which means I can't out it over the polycrylic right? For some reason I cant get the pictures to upload but I'll try again



It's difficult to advise you as you aren't sure what you are using. Read the labels on the material. 

If it says the cleanup is with water...it's waterbased. 

If it says cleanup is with lacquer thinner...it's lacquer.

If it says cleanup is with mineral spirits...it's oil base.


















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## Balfour Refinishing (Jul 20, 2014)

From what I can see the lacquer is not bonding to the Polycrylic. In the third picture the white in the bottom left corner is air under the finish around the edges. You could take something thin and slide under it and peal the finish off like tape. The only thing you can do at this point is to strip the finish off and start over. If you were going to switch to lacquer it would have been better to put a coat of Zinsser Sealcoat on first. Polycrylic is made with polymer resins and many finishes have difficulty bonding to it.


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

Are you referring to the this photo:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*no finishing "expert" here, but ...*

IF you are happy with the color, and a satin finish which is best for the rough wood grain, I would give it another coat of clear polycrylic .... OR just leave it.

The other issue I see is the grain not flowing around in the corners, but the miters look fine. It's "rustic" and looks fine for what it is. JMO. Finishing is part science, part "art" and mostly experience. You have learned a great deal here so far..... :yes:

For almost all my finishing I use a solvent based stain, like Min Wax, and either satin polyurethane or clear satin lacquer. A high gloss finish, unless it's on a Steinway, just doesn't work for me. Wood should look like wood, not plastic. JMO.


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

The current finish, AFTER lacquer spray:


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

This is how it went down:
1.miniwax water-based color stain
2.two coats of miniwax polycrylic, sanding in between
3. (after sanding) miniwax clear satin aerosol laquer spray (I noticed the directions to clean with laquer thinner only AFTER I used it.)


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## Balfour Refinishing (Jul 20, 2014)

Teela said:


> Are you referring to the this photo:


Yes, that is the picture. You can see the lacquer layer trying to peal off. It will eventually all come off.


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## Teela (Jul 27, 2014)

In that photo there is only polycrylic on the frame.
Also I only notice the bristle marks, though I don't know if they're from the first or second coat.
The last photo I posted has the lacquer spray (unfortunately)

I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding anything and/or not explaining myself well.....still new...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It might not be lacquer but I'm seeing the same thing Balfour Refinishing is seeing. It looks like the last coat of finish is lifting. If you have a exacto knife you might try to slide the blade under the edge of the finish and see if you can lift it up. If it does that then you can't depend on the finish. Polycrylic has a natural adhesion problem even to itself. The finish must be scuff sanded between coats and with the rough nature of the wood that would be difficult. 

If you start over, since the wood has that texture I think you would have better luck using lacquer only rather than using the polycrylic. Start with a lacquer sanding sealer if it is available.


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