# Another homemade bandsaw mill



## Fastback

So I decided to build a mill. Well actually I have wanted one for a very long time but could either not afford or justify one. The saw will ultimately get a 13 hp electric start motor, probably from HF. I still need to come up with the blades I'll be using. I guess it will be best to start with a 1 1/4 inch 7/8pitch. Here are few pictures of where I am at.


----------



## Fastback

I'm having a little bit of a problem uploading my pictures. I'll try again. Well its not working right now so I'll try again tomorrow.

Paul


----------



## epicfail48

I'm sorry, 13hp motor? Either that's a typo or a mosterous motor


----------



## woodnthings

*really?*



epicfail48 said:


> I'm sorry, 13hp motor? Either that's a typo or a mosterous motor


http://www.woodmizer.com/configurator/modelviewall.aspx

You apparently know very little about bandsaw mills. HP ranges from 8 on the lower to 63+ on the upper end. Look at Woodmizers site and read the product descriptions. A 10 HP electric motor makes full torque on start up where as a gas powered unit makes it's max HP at or about 4000 RPM, Diesels around 1200 or so.


----------



## ETWW

Good start to the mill and I'll be interested in seeing the rest of the build documented. Keep the pics coming.

My Logmaster LM-1 has a 13 hp Jiangdong (Honda clone) engine and I consider it just adequate. I wouldn't want to have any less power. It can be slow in big logs but I only saw for myself so speed/production isn't a big issue. If/when it dies on me I'll likely replace it with a real 13 hp, elec-start Honda.


----------



## Fastback

I should have said engine, and yes it is a 13 hp. I have seen some band saws with as little as 7 hp. I would think it would cut very slowly. As a rule of thumb, you would need twice the hp of an electric motor to do the same job. So a 13 hp engine would be equal to a 7 hp electric motor. Anyway I'll see if I can upload additional pictures.


----------



## Travico

I will be watching this build. Looks like it is going to be fun!!


----------



## Fastback

I have been working on the mill making a lot of the small parts that will be needed. Today, I thought I would be able to do some more welding on the frame, but it just did not happen, because I needed to work on my wife's car. Anyway, here are a few pictures showing the parts that will be holding the pillow blocks on the drive axel. I decided to beef up the 2.5-inch tubing with some anti-crush bars inserted into the tube. I drilled 2 different size holes, the top was 3/4" and bottom side is 5/8". The bar 3/4-inch diameter CRS is turned and pressed into the 5/8 hole then I welded the top side and milled the excess. I also decided to cap the ends so that the bees can't get in. Maybe tomorrow I can get the other welding done.

Paul


----------



## Fastback

Did some more welding today. The parts that I finished the other day were welded to the carriage frame. I was also able to set the height of the drive and idler axle. I have a picture of the roller I fab'ed in the shop


----------



## Fastback

A few more.


----------



## ryan50hrl

Fastback said:


> A few more.



Looking good!!


----------



## BigJim

That is going to be one nice mill, looks real good.


----------



## woodnthings

*you are well on your way, but ...*

You might find some interesting ideas here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v62lfkkISl0


----------



## ETWW

You do good work. Not being a welder, I'm always fascinated by metal fabrication and love seeing the process. Looking forward to your next update.


----------



## georger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwwpeZK2YVc

here is one of the interesting projects I came across, one thing that stood out to me using a golf cart as a donor, as anyone that drove a gas model can tell you they have an ingenious starting procedure, to the best of my knowledge they use a large electric motor generator which is able to propel the cart while starting the motor, where that comes in handy on a saw mill project you don't have to idle the motor while you turn the log or start stop, just by pushing the accelerator on a golf cart the electric motor starts the gas motor, let go and it stops, just a thought if you can get your hands on a cheap one


----------



## Fastback

Thanks for the videos. I have to admit that I have watched at least a hundred of these. I can't believe that these guys run them with out any guards. A flying blade can do a ton of damage. One guy did have face protection lol.

As for my saw, I hope to get back out for more assembly today. Yesterday, I made a few more parts for the mill.


----------



## ETWW

Fastback said:


> I can't believe that these guys run them with out any guards.


 The first time they break a band they will fab some guards...if they aren't maimed or dead. That video made me nervous just watching it.


----------



## woodnthings

*guards the easy way*

Steel trailer fenders come in various widths and diameters and would be easy to adapt to a guard over the wheels. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-of-Ste...Parts_Accessories&hash=item231cd6dc14&vxp=mtr

http://www.trailerandtruckparts.com...4-Gauge-sold-as-pair_p_1531.html#.VIiG0smo2vE


----------



## Al B Thayer

Keep up the good work and posting of pictures.

Thanks 
Al


----------



## Fastback

I just wrote up a response and it just disappeared, just a little frustrating. Anyway, Woodnthings you are on target, I have a single fender off an old boat trailer I plan on cutting in half to use for each end of the mill. I also have a lot of sheet metal that was given to me that I can use to make up the rest of the blade guard. I even thought of using plywood, and will if necessary. Oh, I have a Tractor Supply nearby and they have fenders in stock if needed. 

Today, I spent some more time in the machine shop making more parts for the mill. I made some brass bolt that I intend on using for carriage guides since the tubing has some slop in it. I'll see if I can get pictures tomorrow.

I plan to continue posting pictures as long as people are getting some enjoyment or getting something out of them. Just remember, I am doing the build without plans so it is a process that will take longer as move forward. Some is trial and error or just error. I believe I have most of the build under control at this point.

Paul


----------



## georger

this is not from experience but when a blade pops supposedly it just lays there, the friction through the cut will stop it dead in its tracks while at the same time friction to the drive wheel is lost instantly, the blade does not weigh much so impulse is relatively small, or so I have heard.

I think the guards are more towards projectiles while cutting, while the blade is engaged and powered, not so much for broken blade protection, either way its not a bad idea to have guards, I for one am the type that all my angle grinders are missing the guards and more than often I find myself under a vehicle in a tight spot and my glasses, if I even bother to look for a pair, get dirty or fogged and I cant see what am I doing, so most times I point the rotation away from me.

I am on a first name basis with my eye doctor, Steve, haven't seen him in a while, the irony is I have had him pull metal shavings out my eyeballs ahhh a handful of times with a syringe needle, every single one I was wearing protection, got over confident glasses got dirty couldn't see what I was doing and I peeked under them like a high school philosophy teacher. never once did it happen without glasses, because I am more alert and I am scared of flying molten metal shavings and I point it away from me and never look down the same plane with the disk, soooo


----------



## Tom the Sawyer

georger,

Your explanation of what happens when a sawmill band blade breaks sounds benign, unfortunately that isn't what actually happens. 

The bandsaw blade is under considerable tension while in use. On my mill that is from 1100 to 1300 pounds of tension, some are much higher. That is whether it is running or not. When running you also have the momentum of that steel running at a couple of thousand feet per minute. 

Over the years I have had probably a hundred blades break (they all break eventually unless you have culled them for some reason) and that tremendous force could propel a blade, or chunks of a blade, for a considerable distance. It sounds like a medium caliber gun going off and often damages the interior around the blade path. Blades have hit the inside of my metal covers so hard that it bent the metal and I had to hammer it back into position in order to put it back on the mill. 

The sharp teeth have actually sliced through the edge of the metal cover, shattered wheel scrapers, gouged the v-belt and even moved the guide rollers. The pieces don't come from the blade disintegrating, when the blade hits something solid, like the inside of the covers, the springy blade material folds so sharply that pieces may snap off. Blades don't always break while in the log, they may break at any time and if not in the log there is a considerable length of blade exposed, even with covers.

That said, the wheel covers on my mill have always contained the great majority of the blade, any pieces fell under the mill. It will definitely startle you the first time it happens, and most of the times after that. Some remove the lower blade cover that moves with the idle side roller, that just increases the potential for a blade or blade fragment to escape the mill. To run a mill without adequate covers is extremely dangerous.


----------



## ETWW

georger said:


> this is not from experience but when a blade pops supposedly it just lays there, the friction through the cut will stop it dead in its tracks while at the same time friction to the drive wheel is lost instantly, the blade does not weigh much so impulse is relatively small, or so I have heard.


 You heard wrong. 
I've broken several bands on my 17" woodshop band saw and they generally just lay there like you mentioned, although the band is well guarded. I think it is because the wheels are aligned vertically and the band drops downward...or something like that.

A band sawmill, however, is a different beast and like Tom so tactfully replied, what you described is not even close to what actually can and usually does happen. Run a band mill very long without guards and you will be extremely lucky if you are not seriously injured.

For using those angle grinders, consider a pair of goggles. They will keep the steel slivers out that the regular safety glasses don't stop. I know that at work, safety glasses and a full-face shield are required.

I'm not a member of the safety police, either. I have and still do perform lots of operations with power tools that others would consider dangerous. My shop, my methods. However, I do wear eye protection almost all the time. My eyes are too valuable to me to risk injury or blindness.


----------



## Fastback

Well I have a few more pictures. I was able to get most of the welding done today. Tomorrow, I'll see if I can set the hubs so they are in alignment. Once this is done I can drill the holes in the free wheeling axle and make and insert my anti crush spacers. I will also be able to spacer for the drive axle. I'll post more pictures as I make headway.

One of the pictures show some of the hardware I needed to make for the mill. The brass bolts will act like gib adjusters. I chose brass for wear and the anti galling effect. 

Paul


----------



## woodnthings

*R U sure you R a woodworker?*

I think you R a metal worker on a woodworking forum 



Nice work! Wacha usin' for wheels? I have always thought a motorcycle wheel and tire would be a good fit.
but I'll probably never get around to making one. Glad to see someone else tackle it! :thumbsup:


----------



## georger

glad we cleared that up, I was curios what someone who experienced it several times may have to say about it.
as for my safety techniques that was for entertainment purposes only, I have found awareness to be the best protection, glasses and goggles fog up/dirty and I cant see, involuntarily making me peak below or above them, some areas are not large enough to accommodate a full face shield, in a perfect world you do most your work at a bench in an upright position with plenty of lighting, I end up on a slab in a tight dark spot most times


----------



## Fastback

Thanks Woodnthings, actually I have a lot of different thing that interest me. I have been a woodworker most of life, as my father and his father was. The only difference is I did not do it as a professional, but do consider it my first love, just don't tell my wife. I went to welding school when I first got out of the service and welded for a few years. I always like machinery and had a number of family members that were toolmakers so I did some part time work in that discipline. Now that I am retired I have almost as many metal working machines as woodworking. All are just hobby's, so that is kind of my story. One thing for sure I keep on learning.

To answer your question on wheels, I'll be using some 12-inch used trailer wheels. They are 21 inches in diameter and best of all they were free. Maybe on the next set of pictures I'll have them temporarily mounted. I'll need them in place to make up my blade guides and slides. Even without a blade I can use string to show what I need to know. Here is another picture of some of the parts I needed to make

Oh, I do belong to a couple machinist sites. 

Paul


----------



## georger

that looks like a lot of custom parts to put together, just like all the other builds I came across, would have liked to take the time and build one but time is an issue for me and honestly by the time you add it all up not counting your time you wont be much ahead, needless to say that is not your reasoning I figure.
haven't even had a chance to go through the HF mill, I assume its a similar build, if anything if you want it done right..... diy, you got that going for you, you may also end up with a better mill too, one thing I considered my own design is to have larger clearances, I think I read the HF can only cut 4" thick boards, your design looks similar also, maybe at some point if I have nothing better to do I'll see about building a swing blade carriage , those come in handy quarter sawing, it all depends how much fun I have with this project for all I know it may have been one of those bad ideeas

I am curious to see how you go about adjusting the alignment for the wheels, I see the blade tensioning screw, you best weld those axles straight or figure out a way to make caster, camber and toe adjustments

you may want to consider installing the axle bearings under the cross member it will give you more thickness clearance, looks like you got them above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC-IiYaRCN8, here's an interesting concept you're too far along in the build for but maybe it gives you some ideas, I am all for reusing ready made cheaply available components to cut back on fabrication, 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B1uNzZfz5U here's another using a donor bandsaw, I particularily liked the way the crossmember is arched , this contraption has as much clearance as the diameter of the wheels, 

I bought an old Carolina heavy duty metal band saw, cheap on cl, considering the challenge, beauty about this concept they already have wheel alignment adjustments, blade guides, the wheels however were relatively small 12" I think, blade was 3/4, small electric motor in comparison, granted some things could be changed but other than that you could literally install it on your uprights and go to town


----------



## Fastback

Thanks Georger, I believe I have the tracking under control. My design allows for adjustment at each end. Now, I really had not give much thought to the clearance under the cross member. I'll take a measurement next time I'm out in the barn. Off the top of my head I think I'll have about 6 inches of clearance. My original intention was to get maybe a max cut of 3 or 4 inches. Well, I guess if this does not do what I want it to do I'll just have build another one. Actually, I could always make my own arch in the center. I'll give this some thought.

Maybe the next time out I'll have a few more pictures.

Paul


----------



## Fastback

I took a walk to the shop to get some additional pictures and also take a few measurements. Today's pictures show the free wheeling side tracking adjustment, I show both extremes, as well as the slot I cut at a 5 inch radius. I know I will have more then enough to make the necessary adjustments. On the drive side I allowed for some adjustment mostly the ensure it is square. These are the Tires and wheels I will be using. Of course, all will be painted upon completion of fabrication. I checked and both wheels are plumb and the height to the centers is right on. The last item I checked is the max thickness of a cut that can be made. My estimate was right on. The measurement was 6-inches. 

Now it is time for a question. Is the 6-inches enough or should I be looking for more? I really had not given this much thought. In looking over my design I find that it would be possible to increase this cut by as many inches as I may need. However, it would require more material (I would need to purchase)and additional fabrication and stock removal. If the change were to made this would be the best time. I am asking for opinions and advise from the more experienced. I would prefer not to make the change but I also don't want to be sorry down the line. I do not believe that this change would affect the overall cutting capacity. I am looking at 32 to 36 depending on where I place my blade guide. Here are the pictures.


----------



## Tennessee Tim

You can cut at 6" max but you have to off-load the slabs quicker than usual (basically every 2 -2" slabs you have to off-load to cut more) and your very limited to thickness unless you slab down to the one edge then flip and mill down to the thicker board/slab you chose over 6". My Hud-son limits me to 11" and a few times I wish for more BUT normally I wouldn't need it except I can make more slices prior to off loading.

I've enjoyed watching this build....I've been planning to build a super wide thin kerf myself BUT weigh the need or the want!!!

Hey...What kind of wheels under the cover behind the bandwheels....is that your fastback???


----------



## Fastback

Yes sir, that is the fastback. It's put away for the winter. It won't be back out until mid May.

Paul


----------



## woodnthings

*novice question*

To increase max depth of cut, which is better ....:blink:
!. increase the wheel diameter 
2. lower the blade guides 
3. increase the arch/space above the top of the blade and use idlers?

My money is on larger wheels. :yes:


----------



## georger

this is my take on it I have looked at several builds myself and I think you got the axles upside down, wish I caught you sooner, I wonder if you could just flip that cross member, the whole assy, I don't see a reason why you couldn't, you have twice the clearance above the cross member than below, Why? you need all the clearance you can get below where you will make the cut, granted 6 inch is decent, I think I read the HF allows 4.5" ( I haven't tinkered with mine yet ), where this Will suck is if you want to quarter saw at some point, see video I posted above, the sawyer slices the trunk right through the middle, 

the idea of going through all that trouble is to build something better than the money would have bought otherwise, I would flip the cutting assy upside down and see where you are at before you go any further, looks like yo may be able to use it just as it is, pulleys should work so will those locks/ screws, maybe a little mod, hey it may actually be more accessible from the bottom, flip it have a good look at it and go from there, at least you didn't weld an engine mount yet.

oh and I see what you did for a toe adjustment, that should work, looks like you have an allen bolt there to lock it in place, if needed for camber, a small washer in between those pieces will give you some adjustment, grind the square tubing if it turns out to be too much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iolIAWOfgdY here is another interesting ideea I came across, I like recycling, and you can get an old dirtbike for a hundred, blade and guides and you're good to go, you got all the hardware, mounting brackets, you can use the swing arm as is to tension the blade, slide the motor to adjust chain, 

granted a carb clean/ sparkplug, etc,


----------



## woodnthings

*sometimes the solution is simple ....*

Turn it upside down, or reverse it, or flip it right to left or
invert it..... A casual observer can see the trees through the forest where often wee are "standing" too close to see the solution. George's idea seems to make sense.
Worth a try maybe?


----------



## Tennessee Tim

I love your fastback's color!!!

WoodNThings ...Actually just by mounting to the bottom of tube would gain approx 3-4" (can this be flipped 180 deg and swap drive and idler wheels to proper location without major changes???, has motor mount been installed??? I cant view pics while typing), increasing wheel dia would require more spread for same between width cut but is a good option after mounting to lower side....a arch is a way to gain but requires more strength due to the extra stress when tensioning blade...it is a theory I've looked at for my future saw build but would require laser or cnc accuracy for my standards and built more as a hollow form for strength.


----------



## Fastback

Yes, if I flip it I would gain another 5 inches giving me 11 total inches. I would need to relocate the cable pulleys and maybe add a couple of holes and nuts for locking the mill. I can't think of any negative effects. I was not concerned about doing an arch I found some heavy wall 2.5 inch tubing. I was leery that I may have missed something and it would come around and bite me you know where. I intend on buying the engine this week, but will try to address this issue before I go any further. The wheel and tire size will have to stay where it is. The cost has to be a consideration as well as the clearance issues A tires size of 21 inches is not small by any means. Most of the hobby saws are 19 inches

Thanks for the input, it gives me food for thought.

Tim, the car color is Ford, silver blue metallic, its the original color code on the door plate.

Paul


----------



## georger

A LITTLE TWEAKING IS FINE, it would have been worse if you had already fabed up and welded an engine mount, guard brackets, blade guides etc

as for the idler and drive switching positions, I would not stress it, is is still soon enough to install the motor on the oposite side, sawmill blades can be flipped to cut in either direction also, have you considered the engines rotation yet? might be a good time, the way I see it in the pictures definitely it is upside down now, there is no reason to continue this way, get the engine and a blade to mock it up before taking any more considerations, its hard to see it all in pictures, you'll have better idea which way to go once you look at it in person


----------



## Tennessee Tim

Fastback...I haven't read through all the posts....is this your design or a plan....the reason I'm asking after looking at a few pics is....1) what are the purpose of the corner lock bolts??? I understand the brass as slide guide if needed ...2) the lift..is it one cable looped to lift both sides at one time?? mine is 2 seperate cables to make lift up evenly and not weight effected. Yours may be a standard that I haven't noticed on others before.


----------



## Fastback

First to answer a few questions. The single cable is used on a number of mills. Since it is locked sown in 2 places it will lift perfectly straight and operate just like 2 individual cables.. I have run mine up a number of times and it keeps level at all times. Two rotations of the crank equals 1 inch. The winch is rated at 600 lbs and has no problem lifting the unit. Each time I make a change to the carriage I raise a lower a few times to make sure everything is good. I had given some thought to installing some Acme screws on each side, but thought it would add too much to the overall cost. If this becomes an problem I can re-visit issue The corner bolts are there in case I need them. I noticed that a few of the mills have these. HF is one the has these. I have also seen a clamping system used. 

Today, I did rotate the carriage frame 180 degrees. This change allows for a 12-inch depth of cut, if needed. I did need to relocate the pulleys on the cross bar and I'll also need to make a new adjuster for the tracking on the free wheeling pulley. So I am back to thinking that it is time to purchase the engine. That way I can lay out for the engine brace, battery box and then take the horizontal bar back out and make all of the changes that need to made at one time. I did do a cursory blade measurement look like it will be around 160 inches. Still giving thought to colors I'll want to paint the mill.

I'll update the pictures as soon as I can.

Paul


----------



## ryan50hrl

Color....is there any color other than dark machine grey???


----------



## ETWW

Fastback said:


> Today, I did rotate the carriage frame 180 degrees. This change allows for a 12-inch depth of cut, if needed.
> Paul


 12 inches will allow you to quartersaw a 24" diameter log using only the mill. Good change.


----------



## Travico

I am enjoying this build!!


----------



## Fastback

So today I did not get much done other than picking up my engine and check the tracking with a couple of nylon straps. I also placed the engine on a workmate to get some idea where I may want to mount it.

Now the plan is for 4,000 to 4,500 bfm. So tomorrow I'll look around and see what I have for pulleys that can be used for this project. Now, I do have an 11-inch that I was planning as the main driver on the wheel shaft and I know I need to turn the wheels at around 460 rpm. I will need to check the engine rpm so I can work in the range where the horse power and torque is. Off the top of head I think it maybe at 3,400 rpm. I left the engine manual in the barn so I doubt I'll be going back out tonight. I may need to install a secondary shaft in order to keep the engine as close to center as I can. I want all of my engine controls facing the operator (Me). 

So here are a few pictures of the mill in its current state. You'll notice that the cross member has been flipped 180 degrees. Now it will be capable of some deep cuts.

Ryan, yes there are other colors then machine gray. I want this to be bright and attractive. I am considering red, green, blue or even orange. I'll mix the color with white on the wheels and maybe black on some of the controls. Oh, the new engine is black.

Paul


----------



## BigJim

That is one nice machine, can't wait to see how it cuts.


----------



## georger

*few things to consider*

I am going to try to give you heads up on a couple of things, you'll probably figure out on your own but hopefully I'll save you some unnecessary fabrication.

first off the carriage looks much better, but I think you are going about it the wrong way, you are more concerned about engine placement as far as being centered, your concern should be clearance, you got 12 inches now, but if that belt cuts at an angle, it will be in the way and limit your capacity, the HF mill is like that and that is part of the reason it can only cut 4" deep.

either a 3rd idler pulley could help with that or mount the engine directly above the drive wheel for maximum clearance. well what about the center of gravity? that is why you should consider a 2 cable lift mechanism, I cant see exactly what you have done so far and it is kind of hard to word this, a drawing would help, it looks like your cable runs in a U shape, probably fixed at one end and connected to the winch at the other, no mater how hard you try to balance it you wont get it right, for example you may be in balace dry weight but by the time you fill up the gas tank and the water tank, it may be out of balance, in theory one wire works in practice it may differ, your best bet is to run those wires in a W patern with the pulleys at the bottom top sides fixed winch in the middle, something along these lines, this way both wires will lift an lower exactly the same regardless weather your carriage is balanced between the uprights or not, this gives you the flexiblity to mount the engine directly above the drive wheel, closer to the operator for easier control, maximum clearance or whatever else you want to do,

quit thinking about colors and switch to functionality, you wont save any money building your own ( you probably figured that one ) at least build something I can be jealous of and kick myself for not taking the time to build one.

not sure, still haven't unboxed mine but I saw some pics, I think even the cheapo HF mill has an independent cable system, that should be your next consideration and than you can mount things where it is most convenient, easy to operate, maximum cut depth and width for what it is etc, it will go up and down a lot smoother than the one cable system, no mater how much you try to balance it or how much cut capacity you sacrifice, it will save you a lot of trips back to the drawing board too.


----------



## Fastback

First off, thanks for the input. It is good to get ideas from others. Now, I am going to disagree with the single cable not being able to lift equally on both sides. I may be wrong, but I think I am going to continue with the direction I am currently going. I have seen a number of them on the internet that seem to be doing the job. Now I may add a pulley to the top center its not a big deal. I'm not sure that this will change anything. Yes, right now I have a "u" configuration on the cable. If I add one to the center I'll end out with a "W". 

I don't think I am worrying too much about the color, but it is something I want to address at some point. To me it is all part of the building process. I did that when I restored my Mustang.

As for motor location, I do expect that the engine will be more to the drive side than the center. I was not worried about it being located in the center of cross member, but rather more on center to keep it for being too heavy front to rear or tippy. Hope that statement makes sense. As for the belt I don't feel that the belt will interfere with the cut. I will be installing an idler that will also act as a clutch and will push on the belt rather then pull. I have noticed a number of builds that pull on the belt and allow for less belt contact on the drive pulley this will increase the potential for slippage. 

As far as cost goes I think that building your own is much cheaper. I don't count the time since I am retired and that plus it is for me, is the reason I am building this mill. As for cost I doubt that the cost will hit the $1,000 mark. The gain is, I get a larger engine, more capacity if I need or want it, additional clearance for cuts (thanks to you guys) and the satisfaction of making my own.

Paul


----------



## Fastback

Forgot to mention that I did some machine work for the mill today. Looking through my old pulleys I found a few that could work only they needed to be bored. Both pulleys are cast iron I will be using a 3 inch on the engine. The crank shaft is 1 inch in diameter and the pulley was 3/4 so I bored it to 1 inch and broached for a new key. The driven shaft is 1.250 and the pulley hub was 1-inch so I am now boring and then I'll do a 1/4 inch keyway. Once I have these two done I can get a better visual on engine location. Who knows maybe more pictures.

Paul


----------



## georger

Fastback said:


> First off, thanks for the input. It is good to get ideas from others. Now, I am going to disagree with the single cable not being able to lift equally on both sides. I may be wrong, but I think I am going to continue with the direction I am currently going. I have seen a number of them on the internet that seem to be doing the job. Now I may add a pulley to the top center its not a big deal. I'm not sure that this will change anything. Yes, right now I have a "u" configuration on the cable. If I add one to the center I'll end out with a "W".
> 
> I don't think I am worrying too much about the color, but it is something I want to address at some point. To me it is all part of the building process. I did that when I restored my Mustang.
> 
> As for motor location, I do expect that the engine will be more to the drive side than the center. I was not worried about it being located in the center of cross member, but rather more on center to keep it for being too heavy front to rear or tippy. Hope that statement makes sense. As for the belt I don't feel that the belt will interfere with the cut. I will be installing an idler that will also act as a clutch and will push on the belt rather then pull. I have noticed a number of builds that pull on the belt and allow for less belt contact on the drive pulley this will increase the potential for slippage.
> 
> As far as cost goes I think that building your own is much cheaper. I don't count the time since I am retired and that plus it is for me, is the reason I am building this mill. As for cost I doubt that the cost will hit the $1,000 mark. The gain is, I get a larger engine, more capacity if I need or want it, additional clearance for cuts (thanks to you guys) and the satisfaction of making my own.
> 
> Paul


a pulley in the middle wont make any difference at all, the winch should go there instead, in theory the one cable will work, and if it is well balanced so it will in practice but it can bind, carriage not traveling parallel, its simple geometry but I wont insist.

I see you are retired I know better than to insist on a point with old timers, and I do agree that one plus to DIY is making it your own, front to back balance is something I did not consider, good point, anyways its your mill at the end of the day as long as you are happy with it who cares.

just keep an open mind, some of the things I mentioned are simple, wont cost you any extra if it work for you or not that is another story. look at some of the pics of the hf mill the way they placed the engine and drive belt considerably limits the cut depth, I understand your build will employ a pulley smaller than the drive wheel, and that will help, and again I can only see so much in pictures, it is different when you mock it up and inspect it in person.

last thing I will point out, as far as I can see what you are building, the 11-12 inches you now have as max depth clearance wont be the final, the route you are taking your max depth will be the height difference between your blade and the drive belt, measured at the drive side blade guard ( hope I word it right ). I understand the blade is on a different plan as the drive belt, but as you cut the belt will follow as you go along the log bed, depending on the pulley size you end up with, engine placement, I cant predict it but it will be shorter than 11 inches, you could end up back to the original 5 which will render the flip pointless, 

maybe you end up somewhere in between and you are happy with it, 

tailors measure twice cut once, take a minute and look at this, do what makes you happy


----------



## georger

Fastback said:


> Forgot to mention that I did some machine work for the mill today. Looking through my old pulleys I found a few that could work only they needed to be bored. Both pulleys are cast iron I will be using a 3 inch on the engine. The crank shaft is 1 inch in diameter and the pulley was 3/4 so I bored it to 1 inch and broached for a new key. The driven shaft is 1.250 and the pulley hub was 1-inch so I am now boring and then I'll do a 1/4 inch keyway. Once I have these two done I can get a better visual on engine location. Who knows maybe more pictures.
> 
> Paul


so you are not going to be using a centrifugal clutch but rather a lever/pulley clutch ( that is what I was implying as a third pulley for more clearance of the drive belt ), I was debating installing an idler on the hf to accomplish a similar effect, mod the guards to get more clearance


----------



## woodnthings

*my .02$*

I don't have a dog in this hunt so here goes. I'd make the motor belt and idler as close to one end as practical with the idler lever really handy and with an overcenter arrangement, keeping the belt away from the horizontal member, which reduces the capacity.

The cable lift and pulley system is the lowest cost part of the whole unit, so use what ever arrangement makes it work best. Cable is cheap as are the pulleys. Harbor Freight has both 12 V and 110 volt winches on the cheap as low as $50.00 for a 2500 lb. lift. I have both and they work fine. They also have the hand crank versions for around $25.00. http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hand-winch-65688.html

One thing I noticed is that this unit is a " 2 poster" with a trianglulated base rather than a 4 poster rolling carriage. I always thought the wider base would give more stability and that would be my preference. I'll be interested to see how it works. again , just my .02$


----------



## georger

the HF is a 2 poster also, most WM I noticed they are a cantilever type, I assume this one has the uprights welded to the base rollers, the HF I believe bolts, that kind of concerns me but otherwise if the base is wide enough and the welds solid should be ok


----------



## Fastback

Yes, I plan on a lever driven clutch. In fact, I am also installing a jack shaft so I can get to the RPM I'm looking for. I have pulleys and pillow blocks laying around so I'll use them. Yesterday I started the layout for the jack shaft and motor. The belts will not be in the cut line. Both will be above the cross member. 

I have found that there are a lot of mills constructed with 2 posts. From what I have seen there are more built this way than the 4 post type especially on the smaller mills. They seem to do the job. I did notice that HF is bolted, but they also have some long gussets for added strength. Most of the bolting they do is for shipping, there is no reason that they could not be welded in place once set up.

Soon, I'll be taking my final measurement for the blade length so I can get some ordered. In the mean time I have a lot of work that I can get done. So I'll just keep plugging away.

Paul


----------



## georger

sounds like you are on the right track, and yes I have debated putting my own touch on the HF mill, like welding the components solid, we'll see how it looks / holds up once I get it together.

I honestly prefer the centrifugal clutch but I was debating installing an automotive idler pulley and a longer belt and move the drive belt away from the cut in a similar manner, cut back the guards, etc, 

when I was debating building one, something like the logosol ( I believe ) from New Zeland with one track on the ground and one 4 ft high was my choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqxqQEkmhcg

this was an interesting Idea, I was considering something similar as far as locking down the log ( screwing at both ends ) so I can turn it easily and raise the log rather than lower the cutting head, this will give you a cut parallel to the center of the trunk and not the taper, well that was my concept and than I chickened out and ordered out of a catalog, unfortunately I am not retired, work a day job and trying to build a house out of pocket, hence the mill, thou I may at some point tweak it a bit, figured a few mods wont take as much time than building from scratch.

the 4 post is more solid but as mentioned a proper design/gussets, tubing size will do as well


----------



## Fastback

Ok, I worked on the jack shaft and engine mount. I still need to do some finish welding, which I plan on doing once I dismantle. I still need to place and additional brace under the base of the motor stand. Here are a few more pictures.

Paul


----------



## Fastback

May as well post a few more.

Paul


----------



## BigJim

Fastback said:


> May as well post a few more.
> 
> Paul


That is really looking good, it is for sure well built.


----------



## BigJim

georger said:


> sounds like you are on the right track, and yes I have debated putting my own touch on the HF mill, like welding the components solid, we'll see how it looks / holds up once I get it together.
> 
> I honestly prefer the centrifugal clutch but I was debating installing an automotive idler pulley and a longer belt and move the drive belt away from the cut in a similar manner, cut back the guards, etc,
> 
> when I was debating building one, something like the logosol ( I believe ) from New Zeland with one track on the ground and one 4 ft high was my choice.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqxqQEkmhcg
> 
> this was an interesting Idea, I was considering something similar as far as locking down the log ( screwing at both ends ) so I can turn it easily and raise the log rather than lower the cutting head, this will give you a cut parallel to the center of the trunk and not the taper, well that was my concept and than I chickened out and ordered out of a catalog, unfortunately I am not retired, work a day job and trying to build a house out of pocket, hence the mill, thou I may at some point tweak it a bit, figured a few mods wont take as much time than building from scratch.
> 
> the 4 post is more solid but as mentioned a proper design/gussets, tubing size will do as well


That mill won't work unless the tracks are exactly parallel on the same plane, if they aren't he is going to have a twisted board. That is way way more trouble than I would be willing to go through to get some lumber.


----------



## georger

I haven't paid much attention to him cutting, chainsaw mills bother me in principal, at some point I considered building a mill and I had a similar concept about bolting the log to something like those carjacks, my idea was to have a square tubing fitting at on end and a round one at the other, thought it would be easier to turn the log and keep it square while at the same time cutting parallel to the center of the log where a traditional bed and dogs normally cut parallel to the taper , also was considering raising the log to the blade rather than lowering the cutting head for a subsequent cut.
that video was the closest representation of a different concept of securing the log I found interesting versus a traditional log bed, as for the rest of his build I don't know? seems like a lot extra stuff to a chainsaw mill. 

I saw on some woodmisers they have a hydraulic cyl to raise up the narrower end of the log so the track is parallel with its center, I thought it would be cool to be able to turn the log as in a lathe, I also saw a such woodmiser attachement

as for the OPs progress, I see what you are doing now, I assumed you're going to run a centrifugal clutch in a similar manner as the HF mill, I like the simplicity of the HF setup but it cuts into the mills clearance considerably.

keep us posted, I still second guess myself for not building one, than again mine is still in the crate have lifted the lid briefly and looked at it, got some recycled fence posts, I planned on building a some kind of a platform for it haven't even started, I would never have found the time to do this and I need to start cutting asap, maybe when I retire (lol )I'll be happy for now if I tweek it a bit before I take it in the woods


----------



## Fastback

So it has been a little while since my last post. I have been working on the clutch engagement mechanism and am close to the point of tacking in place. I thought I would get a few pictures of what I came up with. 

Paul


----------



## Ostie

Glad to see some more progress. Keep up the great work!


----------



## BigJim

You are really good with the metal work, that looks great.


----------



## Fastback

I got the clutch all installed on the mill. I think it will work out fine. You'll note in the pictures all of the clearance below the carriage cross bar for a relatively deep cut. You can also see that the belts are not in conflict with the cut either. I still have a few more parts to make then I can do all of my finish welding. So here are the latest pictures.

Paul


----------



## woodnthings

*very impressive!*

I don't know if you had a working drawing or plan for this, but not, you have done a fantastic job of engineering it and building it. Very Impressive! :thumbsup::thumbsup: and that's coming from a guy who likes making things that make things more than I like actually making things.... :blink: ... well sometimes.


----------



## Fastback

Thanks Woodnthings, no, no drawing. I built this based on what I have seen on u-tube and what makes sense. That is one of the reasons that this is taking me so long. I can tell you that I am running out of room for mounting items on the cross bar. I still need to build a battery case and find a place to mount it and also where to place the blade guides. All and all it seems to be working out.


----------



## georger

that engine should start with a small motorcycle battery, you could also not mount it on the carriage but rather on the ground, run a gator, jump cable to the motor when you need to start it, you also need to find a spot for the water jug


----------



## Fastback

Georger, right now I am planning on mounting the water jug on top of the upper cross bar. As for the battery, I would prefer to have it mounted in a permanent spot, but that will be dictated by the space. It just may end out on the ground, but I prefer not to. Thanks for input.

Paul


----------



## georger

well then, looks like you could mount a small battery on the upper cross member also, as long is it it a small one shouldn't be top heavy and you can leave some slack in the wires just like the water hose, I'm sure yo can figure out a good way to go about it, 

I have an HF air compressor with the same engine they are surprisingly easy to pull start, you may want to just concentrate on the rest of the build and deal with the battery after you cut some boards, chances are you may not find it necessary


----------



## Fastback

I went with the electric start because I have already had shoulder surgery (2 tears) and am not looking for more damage. Anyway, I did some more work on the mill. I am working on the blade guides. I have a few pictures to post. One has a picture of a power hacksaw that I rebuilt last winter. That rebuild included the stand. 

Paul


----------



## georger

you got some toys, I'll give you that, and I like what you did with the belts, I know you mentioned you put some thought into matching the engine to the blade Rpm, I personally prefer simple things, but if it works out as you planned it more power to you, 

you can also I suppose keep a few other pulleys on hand and swap the gear ratio depending on what you are cutting, or if you want to get geeky at some point you can install a gokart torque converter between the engine and the jackshaft, that will give you a centrifugal clutch and automatic transmission, overkill? maybe!

its probably fine just as it is but mostly I like you ran the belts out of the way, you got quite a bit of cutting capacity, heck may need a heavier rail/frame and hydraulics, if you're going to cut anything that big, I can honestly say I am beginning to be jealous.

yet mine is still in the crate, might tinker with it a bit before I put it to work we'll see if I find the time


----------



## Tennessee Tim

Fastback,
Your coming along good...IF you haven't already, go to Cook's sawmills and read the articles Tim has written about blade alignment....After fine tuning mine I didn't think I had the same saw it cut so well.

No design change info from me....it's mostly a personal opinion anyway.....would I done some things differ...NATURALLY...BUT you could do the same vision on something I'd design.

Keep the pics a coming!!! Looking Good!!!!


----------



## Fastback

Thanks guys I appreciate the input. Yes, I have been to Cook's, that is where I came up with the blade speed. He has a lot of good information on saws. 

As with any home made project, it can always be better, and we learn as we go. I guess I'll just keep plugging and hope I come up with a decent working mill.

Paul


----------



## Fastback

It's been a while since I last posted, so I thought I would do a little update. What you are seeing are the blade guide brackets and rollers. I made them up in the shop, this set up will allow me to fine tune the guides both in the vertical and horizontal position. The adjusters will be welded to 1 inch heavy wall square tubing and set above and directly behind the top of the blade.

Most of my time these days has been in snow removal. After 4 or 5 hours of plowing my energy level is a bit low and I don't feel like getting in the shop. Oh well, it could be worst.

Paul


----------



## BigJim

That is some professional looking parts, looks great.


----------



## RAR548

Paul
Incredible thread...Thanks for sharing....Your attention to detail and workmanship is inspiring...I hope you can complete your project and this thread, I am looking forward to that.
One question; is the drive shaft center point and the idler shaft center point both the same distance away from the horizontal carriage tube?
It is hard to tell from the pictures.
Regards 
Rich

Paul
I think I just answered my own question by reviewing the pictures again.
You lowered the two (large ID) tubes on the idler side in order to align shaft centers. Sorry for the dumb question.
Rich


----------



## rockywood

Two years after the fact I find your excellent build. I am following your footsteps, how wide did the carriage end up?


----------

