# Edge Jointing Question



## LRTX1 (Aug 5, 2012)

I am in the process of making some small panels (12" x 15") and finding it difficult to get the edges of my boards jointed.

I am working with reclaimed 3/4" cypress boards 3" x 15", I have tried using my table top porter cable jointer and also a router table. Yielding the same result in both machines leaves me to believe it is technique. When I put 2 boards together the ends fit well but the center 8" or so will have a gap ranging from .008" to .013".

Face jointed first then edge. I am hold firm but not excessive pressure on the infeed side until about 3-5" of the board is on the outfeed side then I transfer pressure to the outfeed side. I am new to this and I cant figure out where the problem is. Watching and listening to the machine it appears to be taking close to the same material off the whole length of the board. I have tried removing 1/32" and 1/16" at a time and yield similar results from both.

Am I right in assuming that is to much of a gap? Any Ideas?

Thanks


----------



## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I would check the jointer setup. Sounds like your outfeed table is slightly below the knives. 
Could be the same problem with the router table.


----------



## Toolman2 (Jun 15, 2010)

Do you have a table saw? If so, I'd just run them through the saw. Assuming your saw if aligned, it should give you a straight edge.:thumbsup:


----------



## gideon (May 26, 2010)

+ 1 on that and make sure, when jointing, that you aren't moving the board from the infeed area after feeding the end through the cutter. 

I always work from behind the cutter to make sure I'm working from the outfeed table height.


----------



## gideon (May 26, 2010)

Toolman2 said:


> Do you have a table saw? If so, I'd just run them through the saw. Assuming your saw if aligned, it should give you a straight edge.:thumbsup:


that only works if you have one straight edge.


----------



## Toolman2 (Jun 15, 2010)

Not necessarily. If you have another straight board, you can put the board to be straightened on top of that and run it through the saw. I do this quite a bit because I don't have a jointer and it works great. 

The secret is keeping the board to be straightened fully secured to the straight board. Sometimes I make several passes after that to get the board perfect.:thumbsup:


----------



## LRTX1 (Aug 5, 2012)

gideon said:


> + 1 on that and make sure, when jointing, that *you aren't moving the board from the infeed area after feeding the end through the cutter*.
> 
> I always work from behind the cutter to make sure I'm working from the outfeed table height.


Not sure I understand what you are saying. Does that mean work from the outfeed side and pull your work through the cutter. I have been working from the centerline or slightly towards the infeed side.

I do have a table saw, a small jobsite saw, I just thought I would get better results with a dedicated jointer/router setup. 

I will go over the set-up on both machines again. I set the router up just before working with it. I used a straight edge firmly against the outfeed fence and adjusted it so the bit barely touched the straight edge. Basically the same for the jointer setup. I am using a 3/4" straight bit in the router table.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I will not be able to work on anything until tommorow, I will respond with results.


----------



## bladeburner (Jun 8, 2013)

I have a jointer and hate it and all other jointers :laughing:
I also have a Jointability, but now have a tracksaw.
One of my router tables has a jointer fence (1 piece), but if I were doing your project I'd mount the 3" boards on a taper jig and be done as fast as I could slap 'em on and push 'em thru!


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*OP used 2 different methods, same result*



bladeburner said:


> I have a jointer and hate it and all other jointers :laughing:
> I also have a Jointability, but now have a tracksaw.
> One of my router tables has a jointer fence (1 piece), but if I were doing your project I'd mount the 3" boards on a taper jig and be done as fast as I could slap 'em on and push 'em thru!


I have great results with my jointers. It may be technique, but I suspect it is the setup. The outfeed table is too low on the jointer and the outfeed table is too far back on the router table.

The recommendation above of using a taper jig on the table saw may be confusing ...It will allow you to cut tapers if you wish or straight line rip also:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/straight-line-rip-jig-40532/

I would not be without several, in lengths from 30" to 96"! :no: I made 2 myself and purchased the Rockler, basically a platform and some clamps to secure the workpiece. The right edge registers to the fence, the left edge is the cutoff. Get one straight edge, ditch the jig, just use the fence.

A note on curved boards against a table saw fence. 
The curve will follow the fence, and will not yield a straight edge. It may get reduced somewhat, but to get a straight edge on the cutoff side, you need a fence longer than your board. 
The minute the end of the workpiece reaches the end of the fence, and falls away, it will follow any curvature on workpiece, which is registering against the fence....clear? :blink:


----------



## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

I also don't have a jointer in my home shop, so i use my router table. Is the outfeed on your fence slightly larger than the infeed side? I've got a couple of layers of veneer glued to the outfeed side to match the thickness of what I'm trying to remove.


----------



## Wizard1500 (Jul 12, 2009)

LRTX1 said:


> I am in the process of making some small panels (12" x 15") and finding it difficult to get the edges of my boards jointed.
> 
> I am working with reclaimed 3/4" cypress boards 3" x 15", I have tried using my table top porter cable jointer and also a router table. Yielding the same result in both machines leaves me to believe it is technique. When I put 2 boards together the ends fit well but the center 8" or so will have a gap ranging from .008" to .013".
> 
> ...


I also live in Alachua....if you want to, you're welcome to come over to my shop, and we'll get your boards jointed.....

Carl.....


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I'll try to keep my suggestions as simple as possible. If your jointer is set up absolutely perfect, you can still have problems, that relate to operator technique. 

One of those is applying too much pressure on the stock where it passes over the gap in the two tables. 

As for the joiner setup, some of the terminology may be confusing. One is 'co-planer'. First lets assume that your jointer's two tables are just one table, with a red line dividing the infeed from the outfeed. In that situation both tables are on the same horizontal plane, and are considered 'co-planer'. 

Now, lets say that at the red line, you could lower the infeed table, and keep the same horizontal plane, it would still be 'co-planer'. IOW, if you lowered the infeed table ¼", and laid a straightedge across both the tables, the line off the outfeed and the new line from the infeed would be parallel.

Addressing the problem of a jointed edge being crowned in the center, there could be several reasons:

The outfeed table is lower than the knives.

The outfeed table is not in horizontal plane. 

The infeed table is not in horizontal plane.Which way either one of them could be out is easier to rectify than determine by first checking for a 'co-planer' condition, and fixing that instead of trying to determine which way one of the tables have to be reset.

In short, the knives should be adjusted to be the exact height of the outfeed table. When setting them, they should be even across their length with the surface of the outfeed table. Once you have that set, whatever you lower the infeed table is the amount of stock that will be milled off.

In making the passes, where you stand may be determined by the length and size of the stock. You should have a fairly comfortable control of the stock. As a general statement, the stock should make its pass in a continuous pass with enough pressure on the infeed, that gets applied on the outfeed. Too much pressure over the cutterhead can cause the 'crowning' of the stock.

One of my jointer tables I had set up was about 6' long with a straightedge fence being ¾" with a laminated edge with 1/16" laminate. In the center of the fence I made a cutout for a straight faced ¾" cutter router bit, that I adjusted out 1/32" from the infeed side. On the outfeed side, I added a strip of 1/32" laminate, as the "take up". I left that setup as a permanent setup for jointing in 1/32" increments. It was primarily for edge jointing laminate, but worked as well for wood.


















.


----------



## gideon (May 26, 2010)

LRTX1 said:


> Not sure I understand what you are saying. Does that mean work from the outfeed side and pull your work through the cutter. I have been working from the centerline or slightly towards the infeed side.
> 
> I do have a table saw, a small jobsite saw, I just thought I would get better results with a dedicated jointer/router setup.
> 
> ...


work from behind the center line. read what cabinetman wrote and work from behind center after you've properly fed the material in. 

if you're working over the center, where the cutter is, well, thats bad in its own right. keep your hands out of the area. it'll turn your flesh into chipped beef if you make contact.

also, jointing on a router table is ok but i tried it with maple and got terrible results - loads of tearout.


----------



## LRTX1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Thanks everybody for your help. It might be a combo of things I'm doing wrong yeilding in the less than desirable results. I have set the table up to the best of my ability, now I need to work on technique.

Wizard, thanks so much for the offer, I will send you a PM, if for nothing else than just meet a fellow woodworker in town.


----------



## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

There is a trick that eliminates almost all inaccuracy in machine set up and technique when edge jointing boards for something like a table top or desk top.

Lay out your boards how you're going to join them. Then mark the boards at the edge with I!O. The "I" being on one board and the "O" being on the adjacent board. Now edge joint the boards. Place the "I" against the jointer fence and the "O" away from the jointer fence.

When you glue up, the inaccuracies in the jointing process will be complementary.


----------



## LRTX1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Thanks rrich, I will give that a go next time I'm in the shop. Haven't had a chance to work on anything yet. I will let you guys know what happens.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the idea above is great*

However, this will only help IF there is not a 90 degree angle on the edges of both boards. The fence setting may not be exactly at 90 degrees giving a slight mismatch. 
It will not help with curves or snipe on the edges. Better setup and technique will be needed if that's the issue. The knives should be dead level with the outfeed table at the top most position for accurate edges, with no curvature.


----------



## Chataigner (May 30, 2013)

If all else fails, you can use a router running along a straight edge clamped to the board to just trim the last few thou. I have had to resort to that method a few times and keep a 2m long aluminium masons straight edge for the purpose.


----------



## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

I would mount the board between bench dogs and take a pass with a #6 or 7 plane. That's what they're for.


----------



## Lilblee (Sep 5, 2013)

I would just put them on my shooting board and hit em with my Stanley #5. When all else fails go back to basics. I use my shooting board a lot. Most of the time it is faster than doing a good set up on a power tool, and in some cases twice as accurate

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


----------



## MissionIsMyMission (Apr 3, 2012)

You might find this helpful...
http://www.newwoodworker.com/jntrprobfxs.html


----------



## LRTX1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice. I dont have a full shop of tools to work with. I have spoke to Wizard and we are going to work on my problem in person. Super nice feller. He offered to help me out. What an amazing community this is and also a very small world to find sombody a few miles from home willing to help you out.


----------



## Noek (Jan 26, 2013)

I think that idea of using one straight board clamped on top of another board with two non straight sides is an awesome idea to run across the table saw. The only question I would have is how would you make sure the boards stay aligned since you can't necessarily clamp them per se. 

I don't have a jointer so I might have to use my table saw for this sometime.


----------



## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Noek said:


> I think that idea of using one straight board clamped on top of another board with two non straight sides is an awesome idea to run across the table saw. The only question I would have is how would you make sure the boards stay aligned since you can't necessarily clamp them per se.
> 
> I don't have a jointer so I might have to use my table saw for this sometime.


You could put a couple of screws in somewhere for your first cut, then cut off the holes with your second cut.


----------



## Noek (Jan 26, 2013)

Excellent thank you. Then once I have my straight cut I can just flip it


----------

