# Ridgid R4512 vs Grizzly vs a used table saw???



## AaronG (Jul 23, 2011)

I am sorry for making a somewhat vague thread, but wanted to get input from those who have been down a similar path. I have been researching the R4512 and Grizzly table saws (in general) and it seems the reviews are more positive than not for both brands. While that is good, a little voice inside my head keeps telling me to look for a quality used table saw on CL, etc.

Price isn't a HUGE factor (would like to keep it under $1200), as this table saw will be used for several projects in a new home that will help pay for itself. After that, my bro-in-law and I want to get into furniture building (not a pipe dream, we *REALLY* want to do this). So I want to get something that we won't outgrow too quickly. I am a little weary that the R4512 would disappoint me after awhile (maybe I am wrong??).

The R4512 looks to be a good value for the price (esp when a 10-20% off coupon is used), the Grizzly costs 2-3x as much as the R4512 (but you get more saw) and you are at the mercy of the market when shopping for used saws (plus, the saw is USED, so you have that risk as well).

If you were in my shoes, what would you do? I pretty much need a saw by the closing date (April 1 or so) because we are going to hit the ground running. My gut feeling is to keep looking for used saws and then look at the R4512 with an upgraded fence. Not sure the lower priced Grizzly saws are 2x as good as the R4512. I'd be more likely to jump from the R4512 to something else besides Grizzly.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Aaron - For $1200 you stand a very good chance of buying a better saw than the R4512, but you'll really need to narrow down which Grizzly saw(s) you're comparing (or at least which types)....they've made many models over the years that vary widely from cheap basic contractor saws to industrial cabinet saws to modern Euro style sliders. Its sort of like comparing a new Chevy Cobalt to all Fords ever made.


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## AaronG (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks for the info. Re: Grizzly saws, I know they make several different models, but I expect the quality to be the same across all those models. So that was more my focus. IOW, my goal is to get the most bang for the buck. If my budget is $X, then I want to make that go as far as possible. That's why I should probably be more aggressive with looking at used saws first.

I should have also said with the $1200 that I don't necessarily _*WANT *_to spend that much. I am a firm believer in value, so if a $500 saw provides excellent value over a $1000 saw, then I am all over the $500 one. I just know that I might have to get into the $1200-ish area to get something that is worth buying since it will be utilized quite a bit.

Hopefully nobody took that the wrong way, I was being more of a realist. If my budget was a firm $500, then it would either be the R4512 or a used saw


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Aaron - I think it's a mistake for anyone to assume equal quality across any line of products, especially in this day and age of heavily blurred lines. No doubt some are more consistent than others, but not generally those aiming at lower or lowest price. I'm a big proponent of buying the tool, and not the name. The Ridgid table saws have had 4 different manufacturers for 3 distinctly different stationary saws, so there's often little correlation between different models. True of Craftsman and several other brands of saw. Better to look at the individual model in question than the name plate.

The current Grizzly G0715P, G0661, G1023RL, and G0690 are all well regarded for their respective price points, but to me, the new G0732 looks like a lousy value at close to $900 delivered because I see no advantage over other $900 examples. IMO, the new G0732 is more comparable to the current $500-$600 market. Their older G1023 series cabinet saws were also well regarded, as were their former G0444 series contractor saws, but their the original basic G1022SM contractor saws had several weak points ...fortunately those only cost ~ $297 new, so in some ways they were a lot of saw for the money, but weren't great saws in absolute terms. Point being, you can't always say "Grizzly saw" and assume it's a solid option, though many are. Price is always relative. 

Within reason, just about any full size cast iron (or granite) contractor saw or hybrid with a belt drive induction motor should be suitable for decent hobby work if it's setup well and equipped with a good blade. Some need a little help, but can be made into suitable saws. Motor sizes and power requirements are very similar between models of this class of saw...between 1 and 2hp, with most being in the 1.5hp range. The table sizes are pretty comparable between them...it's things like the fences, wing material, ease of adjustment, dust collection, etc., that really make a difference to the end user between these types of saws. 

Stepping up to a 500# 3hp industrial cabinet saw is a different ball game in comparison to a contractor saw or hybrid. The sheer weight, power, stability, smoothness of operation, ease of adjustment, the ability to hold adjustment, reliability, and overall construction make them very capable. They're well suited for heavy industrial use, but are also a pleasure to use for a serious hobbyist...they simply have an easier time than most contractor or hybrid saws. The good news is that all of these saws are capable of precision work for furniture and fine woodworking. I confess that I never really "needed" that an industrial cabinet saw, but that didn't stop me from enjoying one! The question really boils down to what you're comfortable spending and what you'll be satisfied with.

Used generally nets you the most saw for the money, but it depends heavily on the particular deal...not to mention if deals are available when you're ready. There have been several posts here lately of folks asking about used saws that seemed relatively expensive for what they were compared to a new saw like the R4512 or comparable 21833. Other times folks post about incredible deals on great used saws that were steals. The used market is not a constant. When comparing new vs used, compare total cost vs what you get....warranty, wing material, fence, motor power, guard, splitter/rivingin knife, mobile base, trunnion type, condition, extras, etc....sometimes used makes sense, sometimes not.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

FWIW, I have the Grizzly G0715P hybrid and have been extrememly happy with it and would buy it again. Its a very capable machine and comes with an excellent fence and features for the price. That being said, I'm a hobbyist that isnt looking to get into the furniture making business or I would probably be looking at cabinet saws.


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## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

Aaron G, your questions are good, I'm a newbie myself, with no aspiration of going pro. My future needs which influence what I am buying now for equipment are less demanding mostly defined by my current cash/budget, however I like quality if I can afford it, and I am committed to setting up my shop with almost all used equip. A recent exception is a brand new Bosch combo 1617 router set. 

Ok so on to you. I have known a couple of woodworking pros over the years, mostly they did custom cabinets. I have been developing a friendship with a pro cabinet maker who lives down the street about 200 yards from me, even better he moved his shop into his garage to cut overhead. I visit him every couple of weeks, it is surprising how much of his equipment he bought used. He has a old delta unisaw, and he swears by it. He says he runs the very best blades in it, and has them sharpened for him regularly.

So what is my point, your right to look for used, the equipment is out there that will suit your present and future needs, and buying used will save a lot of money. You need to think pro duty not hobby duty. However if the aspiration to "maybe" do pro work in the near future, is really an excuse/justification to buy UP or New, realize you will be spending a lot of money on a dream when you really are not sure if you have the long term desire and necessary talents to really do pro grade work. 

Personally I would absolutely buy only "used", and gear toward heavy duty hobby, this will be your learning workshop, after a few months you will know if you are really interested in woodworking as a business. You will know what equipment needs to be upgraded, your experience will tell you what features your need (you don't really know that yet). If you discover you really are not interested then you will have a well equipment hobby shop purchased at the best possible price. OR, you can get rid of the equipment and move on to another interest, and you won't lose any money because you will be able to sell it for at least what you paid or even more. If you buy new and discover you this wood working thing isn't for you, you stand to lose a lot of money, you won't be able to sell that new equip for the price you paid, no matter how hard you try.

One thing you might consider, is visiting at least 4 or more custom (small 1 or 2 people only) wood working/cabinet shops, and ask a lot of questions, see what equipment they use and why. A tablesaw purchase is easy, but buying a air compressor is not so easy, the needs of a pro shop vs a garage setup are not the same, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered, but you need to know the questions first. Talking to different pro shop owners will really help you focus on what is important. Talking to my cabinet maker friend has helped me make some decisions about what I want to buy.


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## UKfan (Nov 16, 2010)

I have the Rigid R5411 and have been very happy with it. I do wish it came with a better fence but I think they put a different fence on the R4512 along with going back to the steel top.


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## Firewalker (Jan 3, 2011)

I don't know about the rigid saw but I do know I have a 5hp Grizzly and I couldn't be more pleased with it. It was a CL find and the guy had more dollars than sense perhaps. He was selling all of his shop equipment just so he could buy more. I don't know what kind of upgrade he was shooting for from the saw I bought from him but anyway. If memory serves for 2 grand I got the saw/jet jointer/grizzly dust collector and a delta thickness planer on a cart. Good luck to you in your search.


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## Moorewoodwork (Jan 2, 2012)

I never buy new tools any more. If you have the cash and watch cl carefully and diligently there are some great deals out there. My only advice would be to act quickly because they go quick. Picked up a delta unisaw with 52" rails last Sumer for 300. I owned the rigid saw for a couple of years , was nice but did struggle with thicker lumber.

Sent from my iPad using Wood Forum


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## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

Firewalker said:


> I don't know about the rigid saw but I do know I have a 5hp Grizzly and I couldn't be more pleased with it. It was a CL find and the guy had more dollars than sense perhaps. He was selling all of his shop equipment just so he could buy more. I don't know what kind of upgrade he was shooting for from the saw I bought from him but anyway. If memory serves for 2 grand I got the saw/jet jointer/grizzly dust collector and a delta thickness planer on a cart. Good luck to you in your search.


Maybe that guy moved to calif, I want to find that same deal too.


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## Firewalker (Jan 3, 2011)

yocalif said:


> Maybe that guy moved to calif, I want to find that same deal too.


hahaha.... yeah it was a great deal. I drove 7 hours to pick it up. Would do it again too. I am with Moore on this one. Keeping some cash ready is great on some of these deals. The guy I bought my clamps from had a Delta UNI for sale for pretty cheap. Came with a HUGE outfeed/side table..... like 10' x 10' ..... It sold for around 700. 

With me.... I have to find deals and buying them used in good shape allows me to get a lot more tool than I could otherwise afford to have. I would like to find a school replacing the woodshop equipment and buy their bandsaw or giant planer.

Good luck amigo


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## AaronG (Jul 23, 2011)

Wow, thanks for the awesome replies, it helps A LOT.

So after I created this thread I went to CL and found several table saws that were worth considering, a Jet , some older Deltas (both Unisaws, one single and one 3-phase) and a Grizzly that looks promising. That was just one day mind you. So after reading your replies and seeing what is out there just from a quick search, I am going to focus first on good used saws and see what comes up. I have time to look around.

And FTR, this saw would be used strictly for hobby purposes, but not just cutting wood for shelving  We want to do some more involved projects, but have ZERO intention of using this for a business.


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## goXtreme (Jan 9, 2012)

After growing up with my dad being as cheap as he is, I seen him but and replace many many tools of all shapes and sizes, I told myself that I would never do that.

Al though I did buy some cheap tools when money was really tight, I ended up upgrading them later.

I do not buy cheap tools, I will buy used tools, but I am talking like wrenches and stuff like that, anything that can be adjusted or modified is bought new and adjusted/modified by me and only me, that way I dont have the option if getting mad at anyone but myself.

With that being said, I know that there were good deals on the older used saws that could very well outperform any of the new ones with little to no work involved, but they will not be in my garage.

My next major purchase is a 3-5 HP cabinet tablesaw and I plan on spending $13-1700 on the machine, and I will only do it once.


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## AaronG (Jul 23, 2011)

I hear that, my dad has a good saying...*good tools cost a lot and cheap tools cost even more. *I much prefer to buy good tools and buy them once, if possible. I don't have an issue buying USED tools though, if the value is there.

That Grizzly saw on CL sold pretty quickly, although it was 10 years old and the asking price was ~1/2 of a new equivalent model. I'd be more inclined to buy a new one for the extra dough, although that implies his asking price was fair (I think it was a little on the high side). I am going to keep looking on CL and forums for good used saws. 

I am still having a bit of an internal debate about how much saw to get to start out. I just need to get real and decide what I truly need, i.e. a hybrid vs a cabinet style saw. That's part of the journey.


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## Firewalker (Jan 3, 2011)

I know you are saying it is just for hobby and maybe it will be or you may get pretty serious down the road. I really believe my TS is the heart of the shop. Mine anyway. 

For YEARS I only had a second hand craftsman TS with stamped steel wings I never could get flat and a fence I had to tap and measure every time I moved it. It was limping along til the finish. Depth wheel snapped off. Start capacitor hanging out and switch is rigged from a household light switch. I am in my garage and looking at it now. The motor still works so I won't just throw it out. (telling myself I will build one of Daren's wide drum sanders out of it someday. I don't know what HP it had and I only remember overloading it a couple of times cutting 4x4s or something like that. 

The grizzly I have now just happens to be the 5 HP and I don't really think I need that. I am pleased it's there but I would have bought a 3hp model just the same. 

I have some craftsman table top tools that are slowly being replaced. The DP and scroll saw work well. The jointer was bad and the bandsaw was absolute crap! Put it this way. I act like I don't have a bandsaw. 

The only cheap tool I have bought in a while was a HF chop saw when I was doing the purlins on the shop. I expected to cut 30 pieces of metal and probably kill it. Got the warranty and expected to take it back a few times. Guess what. 2 years later she still works! If you do ever buy one immediately throw away the wheel it comes with and put on a makita wheel. Night and day. 

I still think you are on the right track looking at CL and one will come along for ya. I think some of these tools are so well made most people will have a hard time wearing them out. Look for signs of abuse and neglect to filter them out. Good luck


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## AaronG (Jul 23, 2011)

thanks, I am looking everyday for something that is a good value. I think I would be content with an R4512, esp if I can use a 20% coupon. That's my Plan B at this stage.


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## AaronG (Jul 23, 2011)

Still looking on CL, no luck though. It's more about supply than price. At least I have the R4512 as a "last resort", which I know is a respectable table saw.


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## ATL Jack (Dec 11, 2011)

I went through the same thing. I spent a lot of time looking for a used saw and finally got too frustrated and bought a R4512 for $400 with a HF coupon. I am happy about my decision.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

I was in the same boat as you are. I owned a Bosch 4100-09 for 2 years and it served me well. As I got more involved in woodworking, i began reading these forums and realized that I needed more than a jobsite saw. I sold my Bosch and I was all set to buy the R4512 the very next day. But as I was browsing thru craigslist, I saw an ad for a Delta Unisaw for $500. I knew the Unisaw is a great saw from reading this forum, so I posted a question to the forum: Should I buy the R4512 or the Unisaw?

The knowledgable and experienced woodworkers on this forum informed me that the Unisaw was way more saw IF it was in good condtion. They told me what to look for and why I needed to make sure it was in good condition.

Armed with their expertise I checked it out, posted back a few more questions and bought the saw. I am extremely happy with my saw and am grateful for the help these guys gave me.

I just upgraded to a T2 fence (should be delivered tomorrow) and I am so glad that I didn't buy the R 4512. Just letting you know my experience, so maybe it will help you make your decision.


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

The one thing to remember about used table saws is they will unlikely have a riving knife. For me that is a deal breaker, for others they could care less.


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