# Water based Poly problems



## Kerfer (Jul 9, 2009)

I am an intermediate woodworker and have used water based poly for the first time. I am at my daughter's home and have sanded a kitchen table top to refinish. Sealed B4 staining, stained and now 3 coats of water based poly. (Minwax brand) I have steel wooled with 0000 between each coat, and overall I am not happy with the look and feel. I can still see brush marks and steel wool scratches to some degree. I chose water based poly for the off gasing as I had to apply the finish in the dining room as it is too cold outside. I have to get more poly today to apply another coat, 3 on now, and wonder if I should switch to the solvent based poly for the last 1 or 2 coats? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.


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## Fishbucket (Aug 18, 2010)

You cannot put poly over waterbase, it will have to be stripped. 
Steelwool should not be used with waterbase as it can leave little pieces of steel on the surface and cause a rusting issue. 

It sounds to me that it's too warm where you are finishing the table. Waterbase dries really fast, and it's hard to keep a wet edge that will blend or have the brushmarks flow out. You might try using a wide foam brush for a final coat, after sanding smooth ( you can really cut the finish down to get all the marks out) with paper or synthetic pad. Let it dry a good day or two first so that the other coats have set up really good. and be sure to tackrag the top a few times before the last coat. Keep traffic to a minimum so as not to kick up dust. 

I'm sure others will be along soon with more advise.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I donno about water based*

But if you want a smoother finish why not wet sand with a little dish washer soap and some 400 WD paper on a block with a felt bottom.
Other guys here use a buffing wheel and compound, but the spray off the wheel will trash your work space. 
I don't think I'd add another coat over top in a volatile spirit finish like you referred to. I'm no expert on finishes except by trial and error. I've started using water based Polycrylic by Minwax. But not on fine furniture...yet. I'm still waiting to see how it proves out. I do some spraying of 2 part automotive finishes and they come come smooth as glass. I've brushed on lacquer will good results, rubbed out between coats.  bill

Maybe some info here: http://charlesneilwoodworking.com/category_player.php?type=1&cat=3


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Since you already have a good start with waterbase, maybe try to finish with it. Water base polyurethane needs more of a build than oil base poly to get a good looking finish. Spraying works best. If you need more shine, use gloss instead of satin. Or, you could mix gloss and satin 50/50. You might try using a microfiber abrasive (like Scotch Brite pads) instead of steel wool.

If you want to coat oil base over water base, the water base must be absolutely cured. It should be scuff sanded to give grip to the oil base poly topcoat.












 









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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

you CAN put a oil poly over a water poly, but if the water poly is not proporly applied or not fully cured the oil poly could lift the water poly.i regret the day voc regulations will force me to use water based products for wood. on a large surface if your not spraying water ( like said ) is hard to keep a wet edge. water is also very tempermental with weather, specialy humidity. plus it only gives you half the protection an oil will


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## Kerfer (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow! Thanks for all of the quick responses. Much appreciated. From all that was said, spraying would have been the bset option, however, since I don't have a gun, nor could I spray in her kitchen, I will get some 400 grit paper and wet sand before the last coat, and then do it again after that coat. Hopefully, I can remove the brush marks. UGH!! Watched the video(s) as suggested above and he makes it look easy. If only I wa at home, in my shop, I would really have a go at it with wet sanding using my ROS, but I will do what I can with 400 grit by hand. Could I put paste wax over top to enhance the look?
Thanks again for all of the input.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

if your goin to brush try this. use a mohair roller and was several times and run it over some duct tape. you can use the roller to applu then tip it with your brush. that will alow you to put the material on quicker and help eliminate dry spots from straight brushing.
you can buff with a wax but very sparingly and with a buffer, not by hand.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I wouldn't use wax at all.












 









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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

me either probably bad idea. but i wouldnt use a water poly either


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## Kerfer (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks all. I have learned something today, well, several things. But the main lesson is to stay away from water based poly. Many thanks to all who helped me out! Cheers all.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Kerfer said:


> Thanks all. I have learned something today, well, several things. But the main lesson is to stay away from water based poly. Many thanks to all who helped me out! Cheers all.



It disappoints me to think this forum and our members helped you to think your main lesson today was to stay away from a water based finish. I would think that your main lesson learned would have been to learn about the finish, get some experience with it, and equip yourself to properly apply it.

To isolate your efforts to what may seem to be the easiest way out defeats the learning ability, and knowledge base afforded with forums like this one.












 









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## Kerfer (Jul 9, 2009)

Cabinetman, you present a valid point. I did not express myself well in my "closing comment". I must say that I did not look at the interaction I had with various members quite the way you suggested I should have, and you are spot on with your assessment. I did learn many things about using water based poly, not the least of which was to try a foam brush, and to rub it out with 400 grit wet paper. I was speaking from my experience with oil based poly and the learning curve I have been down with that technology. Not as an excuse, rather an attempt to explain, I am visiting my daughter and obviously do not have my shop and its contents available to me. Refinishing the table was a job handed to me after arrival, so I was not as well prepared as I could have been had I known before leaving home. Rest assured I have learned from this exchange, not the least of which, as you pointed out, was to learn more than the obvious from the comments, and take the entire interaction as a opportunity to learn much about the subject at hand. So, thanks for opening my eyes to a bigger chance to learn than I had thought possible at the outset.
Cheers,


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