# Pick your tool swap challenge!!



## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

below is the list we will be polling on to do the tool swap. since there is a limit of 10 for the poll. I had to delete a few from the original list. If the tool you wanted to build / swap is not on this list, dont fret. Im sure we will be doing another swap in the near future, and It can be added to that list.

1. Bow saw (blade(s) and pins would come from a kit),
2. wooden plane (looking into a source for blades for everyone to use),
3. router plane, (blades can be bought from LV or LN),
4. dovetail templets,
5. marking knife (blade could be bought or crafted),
6. panel gauge (blade could be bought or crafted), 
7. try squares (a set of 3 each a different size),
8. bevel / miter gauge,
9. winding sticks,
10. lay out square (Roubo / Christopher Schwarz style),

*Oh! Btw, if you are not participating - do not vote!!!*

Photos and information received from the following:
1. Alchymist
2. Bumbus
3. Wema826
4. Firemedic
5. Al B thayer
6. trc65
7. sprung
8. old air force
9. ktp
10. jharris2


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

ADMIN, can you please sticky this thread? it would be appreciated greatly!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm winning, John :icon_smile:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I'm winning, John :icon_smile:


It would appear so! but it is still early.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh! Btw, if you are not participating - *do not vote!!!*

Hope ya don't mind me taking that liberty, John!?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

WHAT? how dare you! 


lol not at all. in fact, thank you, Jean! I forgot to add that part.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> WHAT? how dare you!
> 
> 
> lol not at all. in fact, thank you, Jean! I forgot to add that part.


Might need to copy and paste that up on the first post so it is seen BEFORE they vote, lol


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

John
# 7 would require building 3 try squares?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> It would appear so! but it is still early.


I'm still winning by a long shot! :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> John
> # 7 would require building 3 try squares?
> 
> Al
> ...


I asked the same thing, Al. John has wooden blade sqaures in mind and according to him they only take 5 min each to make, sooo... :boat:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> John
> # 7 would require building 3 try squares?
> 
> Al
> ...


yes, my thinking was it is something that could be batched out. if the wooden blade is used, then it would be on the easier side.



firemedic said:


> I asked the same thing, Al. John has wooden blade sqaures in mind and according to him they only take 5 min each to make, sooo... :boat:


and i said I once made 6 in a day. so that would average 4 hours per......wise guy


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Wema826 said:


> yes, my thinking was it is something that could be batched out. if the wooden blade is used, then it would be on the easier side.
> 
> and i said I once made 6 in a day. so that would average 4 hours per......wise guy


Well......who'd thunk.

Okay I'm no closer to casting my vote than I was before. Really good choices though.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> and i said I once made 6 in a day. so that would average 4 hours per......wise guy


:laughing::boxing:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

When does the poll end?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok, this may be a stupid question but please bear with me.

-This square sets a 90° angle only. In my mind would be a "uni-square"









-This square sets a 90° angle and by indexing the 45° bevel at the intersection of the two parts to the work piece it also sets a 45° angle.
Thus, in my mind this is a "bi-square.









Both are called a tri-square.

Why?

Where's that confounded third angle?


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

It is not a "tri" square, but rather a try square. Here's an explanation from Wiki:

A *try square* is a woodworking or a metal working tool used for marking and measuring a piece of wood. The _square_ refers to the tool's primary use of measuring the accuracy of a right angle (90 degrees); to _try_ a surface is to check its straightness or correspondence to an adjoining surface. A piece of wood that is rectangular, flat, and has all edges (faces, sides, and ends) 90 degrees is called four square. A board is often milled four square in preparation for using it in building furniture.[1]
A traditional try square has a broad blade made of steel that is riveted to a wooden handle or 'stock'. The inside of the wooden stock usually has a brass strip fixed to it to reduce wear. Some blades also have graduations for measurement. Modern try squares may be all-metal, with stocks that are either die-cast or extruded.[1]
'Try square' is sometimes spelled 'tri square' although its etymology is from 'trying', in the sense of testing, rather than the prefix 'tri-' meaning three.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Try_square#cite_note-TechStudent-1


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you sir!

It was the try/tri thing that caused my confusion.

I think I'd hate to make one of those.

I mean if its not exactly 90° its not a square s it?

I can see myself standing amidst a pile of tear soaked clumps of hair and rejects babbling incoherently until the white coats came to sedate me and take me to my new padded accommodations.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> Ok, this may be a stupid question but please bear with me.
> 
> -This square sets a 90° angle only. In my mind would be a "uni-square"
> 
> ...


With out looking for the answer. I would think the Tri is an inside 90 an outside 90 and a 90 on the edge. ?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

You actually had me trying to figure out where the third angle was as well. :wallbash: 

I was going to postulate that a straight line actually has an angle of zero degrees and thus is technically an angle - it sounded as dumb then as it does now:laughing: - so I Googled it.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> Ok, this may be a stupid question but please bear with me.
> 
> -This square sets a 90° angle only. In my mind would be a "uni-square"
> 
> ...


I looked. It's called a try square because it's for trying the 90 to check for true. It's sometimes spelled Tri.

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

You guys crack me up sometimes :laughing:

Yes, it should be Try Square.

It's English in origin - Moxon writes about Trying Boards in reference to jointing them. Ya'll found the right answer :thumbsup:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

John... I'm still winning by a long shot! haha


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok, so it looks like we're building a marking knife.

I've been doing a bit of research and found these:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/woodworking-hand-tools/spear-point-marking-knives

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...s-schwarz-blog/how-to-sharpen-a-marking-knife

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A Knife for Marking Dovetails.html

http://www.hocktools.com/Knives.htm

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/search2/search.aspx?query=marking knives

http://www.hidatool.com/woodworking/marking

Any blade sources or sources for blade mfr that you find are most welcome.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> When does the poll end?
> 
> Al


Inquiring minds need to know


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> When does the poll end?
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.





jharris2 said:


> Inquiring minds need to know





Wema826 said:


> I will let this run till Saturday, then will set the rules for the build and swap!


There ya go


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'n not going to be on a PC again for several days - what's the running looking like?

Also, John (wema) typically goes off grid for a few days at a time so y'all don't be concerned if it takes a fee days to get replies from him.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you sir!

I'be decided on a plan (not original) and I'm just trying to decide whether to purchase or manufacture the blade. 

This is gonna be fun!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I'n not going to be on a PC again for several days - what's the running looking like?
> 
> Also, John (wema) typically goes off grid for a few days at a time so y'all don't be concerned if it takes a fee days to get replies from him.


Marking knife is at 50%. Looks like a done deal.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> Marking knife is at 50%. Looks like a done deal.


Cool, I will for sure be making my knife blank if we end up doing knives.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Cool, I will for sure be making my knife blank if we end up doing knives.


I'll make mine if I can do it well. 

What I know about metal would fit in a gnats a$$.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> I'll make mine if I can do it well.
> 
> What I know about metal would fit in a gnats a$$.


Don't let it scare ya - just dive in!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Looks like I'm going to have to get mental on marking knives. Can do the metal but left my metal tools in my northern home.

Hey Fire. How much did those votes cost ya?



Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh I didn't really care what we built - that was just an inside thing with John, lol. I figured that the knives would win :smile:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Oh I didn't really care what we built - that was just an inside thing with John, lol. I figured that the knives would win :smile:


Panel gauge would have been a nice follow up from the marking gauge. 

I'd like to see this swap really bust loose with lot of participation. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> I'd like to see this swap really bust loose with lot of participation.
> .


I think we will - a marking knife is quite accessible to most. It's simple to conceptualize and execute.

Anyone have sawzall blades? Disposable planer blades? Old steak knife? Etc etc...


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> I think we will - a marking knife is quite accessible to most. It's simple to conceptualize and execute.
> 
> ...Anyone have sawzall blades? Disposable planer blades? Old steak knife? Etc etc...


Ah... and there's the rub.

I have all of those. I have a plan.

The blade needs to be spear point (for L/R handers), no more than 1/4" wide has to fit inside a 3/8 diameter circle).

So far so good...

The grinder I have is high speed and not suitable for sharpening. 

The wheel that's on it is concave.

I have no sharpening experience, stones or jigs.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> Ah... and there's the rub.
> 
> I have all of those. I have a plan.
> 
> ...


Either use the side of the grinding wheel or anneal the steel first and use a file :smile:


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

Perhaps someone (wink wink, nudge nudge firemedic) could post a quick 'how to' on using different steel to make our knives? Planer blades, sawzall blades etc. I'm not sure where to start looking. Google returns so many results. 

I had a brother in law years ago who made a blade from a steel cut nail, I have no idea how long it kept an edge.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Bumpus said:


> Perhaps someone (wink wink, nudge nudge firemedic) could post a quick 'how to' on using different steel to make our knives? Planer blades, sawzall blades etc. I'm not sure where to start looking. Google returns so many results.
> 
> I had a brother in law years ago who made a blade from a steel cut nail, I have no idea how long it kept an edge.


Gahlee, you just got here and you already making demands of me! :laughing:

I can try - I've been really busy as of late though. I've three jobs behind schedule right now and I'm probably loosing my shop lease. I've got a full plate to say the least.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

If you read through this thread on the Marking Gauge Swap, there is quite a bit of discussion on making blades as well as some links to articles on annealing, hardening and tempering steel for tools. Hopefully, this will answer some of your (and others) questions on making blades.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Gahlee, you just got here and you already making demands of me! :laughing:
> 
> I can try - I've been really busy as of late though. I've three jobs behind schedule right now and I'm probably loosing my shop lease. I've got a full plate to say the least.


No worries, you've already got your work cut out for you. We've got this.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Here is another thread on toolmaking. 

A Woodworkers Guide to Tool Steel and Heat Treating.

Both of these were probably listed in the Marking Gauge Swap thread, but here they are for easier access.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

*Rules for the swap*

Well, its been decided, we will be building and swapping a marking knife!
In the spirit of the marking gauge swap lets keep it a surprise as far as design and who gives to who!

The rules for this will be pretty simple.

1. build / carve / turn / whittle your knife body / handle from a sturdy stock.

2. blade : must be made of metal, it can either be home forged or store bought, but it must be of suitable strength. it should not have any flex from the tip to the hilt. It can not be an Exacto blade or other hobby knife blade that is micro thin. 

3. the handle and blade must be secured to each other, blade can be made to be replaced or exchanged with other blade(s). 

4. Time line, I think 3 weeks should be plenty of time for this build. so lets say the deadline is August 24th at noon. CST. 

5. Once you build your knife. take a couple pictures of it. and email it to me at [email protected] please include your online name as well as your real name, and your address that you would like your knife shipped to. 

5a. this is an optional rule. If you are willing to. send me your date of birth, social security number, bank account information, list of all known passwords etc etc. send this information to [email protected]

6. To be officially entered into this swap. i must receive an email from you including a completed marking knife. I will edit the first post in this thread to update and keep track of who is entered.

now get out there and get to building!!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Wema826 said:


> 5a. this is an optional rule. If you are willing to. send me your date of birth, social security number, bank account information, list of all known passwords etc etc. send this information to [email protected]


The email keeps bouncing back.

It says that's not a valid address


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> The email keeps bouncing back.
> 
> It says that's not a valid address


Oh sure spoil it for everyone! Lol


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

I am excited about joining this swap. Thanks for the links on what metal to use and how to treat it. Now to get started, 3 weeks will run faster than you think.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Well, I'm ready to get started with it! I just have to decide what style it will be!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I made good progress today.

The blade has been cut from a plane iron, shaped and semi polished to 220 grit.

Sharpening will be done professionally as I have no experience or confidence whatsoever with this aspect of the project.

I researched methods of metal patination and have experiments cooking.

Materials on hand for the handle are oak, cherry, teak and maple. I haven't decided what wood or combination of woods to use yet.

Very pleased with the results so far.

Jean, I did use the side of my grinding wheel as you suggested and with pleasing results.

I took my time and cooled my blade blank in water frequently.

Thanks for your advice and encouragement.

Polishing of the blade blank was done using varying grits of sandpaper adhered to a granite tile with 3M spray adhesive. 

I'm learning alot, gaining experience/confidence and having a blast.

IMO it doesn't get a much better than that.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

see how I go, might have a go if I get the time I need


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Dave, 

I hope you'll participate.

We've got three weeks.

Just get started, take it a step at a time and enjoy the process.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Good deal, glad that worked out. 

I'm doing a lil thinking about what I want to build - got to be different somehow!


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

jharris2 said:


> I made good progress today.
> 
> The blade has been cut from a plane iron, shaped and semi polished to 220 grit.
> 
> ...


Hey, that was my idea! I was pleasantly surprised when a hacksaw cut right through the iron to give me a rough blank. Have not shaped/ contoured it yet.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

If y'all use an older folded plane iron be sure that the edge of the knife is going to have hardened steel. The mild steel back is not going to hold an edge.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I did a little polishing today and discovered a faint line that appears to be the demarcation between the hardened steel and the soft.

The business end of my blade blank is the portion of the plane iron that was sharpened.

Whew! One do-over avoided!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> I did a little polishing today and discovered a faint line that appears to be the demarcation between the hardened steel and the soft.
> 
> The business end of my blade blank is the portion of the plane iron that was sharpened.
> 
> Whew! One do-over avoided!


:thumbup: good deal


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I made some progress today as well with a blade. Got it shaped and now just needs some polishing and honing - easier than I thought it was going to be. 

Next big step is to figure out what to do for a handle - short of buying a lathe - which I would love to have but can't afford. I'll probably be spending some time with my files/rasps for shaping once I decide on wood species to use.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

was there a link of to samples of the kind of thing we might be making here?



trc65 said:


> I made some progress today as well with a blade. Got it shaped and now just needs some polishing and honing - easier than I thought it was going to be.
> 
> Next big step is to figure out what to do for a handle - short of buying a lathe - which I would love to have but can't afford. I'll probably be spending some time with my files/rasps for shaping once I decide on wood species to use.


router table might be another option, and a disc sander and belt sander


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

jharris2 posted some links in post #23. The third link down is a tutorial on making one type of knife. 

I don't think anyone ever really asked about single bevel (right or left use) or double bevel (both right/left) knives. I'm making a double bevel knife (I've seen some call them striking knives). I assume that most would make a double bevel knife, but then again, you know what they say about making assumptions!!


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

thx, I'll go back and have look, im on mobile network, so slow scrolling thru pages


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Although I'm not certain what style of knife I will be making yet it will be O1 tool steel - because I have plenty on hand. It will be hardened and tempered with a propane torch. It will likely have a shop made brass rivet or two as well.

The handle will almost certainly NOT be turned. 

It will be a general purpose marking knife but I'm keeping dovetail marking as my focus.

...just what I'm doing.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

One of the posted links suggested making a marking knife blade from a jig saw blade. Most of the jig saw blades I have seen have some flex to them. So my question is, will a blade made from a jig saw blade meet the "no flex" requirement of this swap?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'll answer for wema as he won't be back around until tomorrow - I don't think he minds.

The blade should NOT flex but if the blade is hardened it shouldn't flex. Those types of blades are made of a sort of spring steel to keep them from cracking and the cutting edge is impulse hardened.

So if the entire blade is hardened and tempered you should be in good shape - ya may have to play around with it though to be sure.

Jean


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

trc65 said:


> I made some progress today as well with a blade. Got it shaped and now just needs some polishing and honing - easier than I thought it was going to be.
> 
> Next big step is to figure out what to do for a handle - short of buying a lathe - which I would love to have but can't afford. I'll probably be spending some time with my files/rasps for shaping once I decide on wood species to use.


http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodwor...uting/make-your-own-dowels-on-a-router-table/


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Old Air Force said:


> One of the posted links suggested making a marking knife blade from a jig saw blade. Most of the jig saw blades I have seen have some flex to them. So my question is, will a blade made from a jig saw blade meet the "no flex" requirement of this swap?


I addition to what Jean has said, jigsaw and reciprocating saw blades will be less likely to bend when shortened for the purposes of this project--but definitely not when hardened as well.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Good deal, glad that worked out.
> 
> I'm doing a lil thinking about what I want to build - got to be different somehow!


I too have been doing some thinking about what style. After a little surfing. I find differing opinions along with differing styles. I'm going to try to focus on something used most by hand tool users. I'd die if I made a duck no one could use.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

I think a carved duck would be cool! It would definitely be different!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Next go round can we swap squares?


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Next go round can we swap squares?


sure - if youre doing that one in the pic I'll swap with you 

can you do it metric?


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Wema826 said:


> 6. To be officially entered into this swap. i must receive an email from you including a completed marking knife. I will edit the first post in this thread to update and keep track of who is entered.


Waiting with bated breath!:laughing: :hammer:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Wema826 said:


> I think a carved duck would be cool! It would definitely be different!


Until I started doing some research on this I thought this was going to borin. I've learned quite a bit already. I'm amazed at how truly far the east is from the west on marking knives. Much like the hand planes. Push me pull you.

Quack

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Is the thread dying???? :sad:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> Is the thread dying???? :sad:


I hope not!!!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm still on board. I haven't had time to make any progress.

That may be the case with others as well.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Just wondering ....done and picture went out last Sunday. :whistling2: Was worried I might have to swap knives with myself! :sweatdrop:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Alchymist said:


> Just wondering ....done and picture went out last Sunday. :whistling2: Was worried I might have to swap knives with myself! :sweatdrop:


I could swap you a nice looking blade right now.:laughing: 

Hope to have something to attach the blade to this weekend.


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

trc65 said:


> I could swap you a nice looking blade right now.:laughing:
> 
> Hope to have something to attach the blade to this weekend.


Same here. Got a shaped blade and a handle design, just deciding on a species to use.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Didn't have what I needed to do the hardening and buying it wasn't it the budget, so. I bought a blade. It came yesterday, so now I need to make the handle. Will start on that this weekend. Feel like since I didn't make the blade I have to do something creative with the handle, but haven't decided what yet.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

OAF,

Where did you get your blade?

I'm making my own but I need a back up plan in case I screw it up?

Hey! It could happen!


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Sorry, I have been busy as of late. Alchymist you have been added to the first post. this thread is not dying!!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Wema826 said:


> Sorry, I have been busy as of late. Alchymist you have been added to the first post. this thread is not dying!!


John, thanks for coordinating. Don't fret, I'm just stirring the pot, keeping the thread alive, and, hopefully, building a little fire under some others. :devil2:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes thank you John


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

John - would it be Kosher to post a picture of my iron as food for thought?


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm not John, but I vote for you to show us a picture. It might give some of those undecided on joining in a little encouragement.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'd like to post a photo of my blade blank also. 

It's shaped but not hardened or honed.

I'm not sure about the angles and I want this to be juuuuuuuuust right.


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

I say post. It helps us all


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'll go first hoping I'm not breaking the rules.

I don't think this gives anything away because its seems to be a pretty standard shape.











Notice the line of demarcation between the hardened end of the plane iron and the softer steel.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

https://www.google.com/search?q=mar...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=PpEFUomTB4PyyAH98YCQBw


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> Yes thank you John


yes, irons only.

Sorry, been a busy shift once again....


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

I have one finished, It looks ok, But I am thinking of doing another. Something a bit out of the norm.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks Alchemist,


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

More info:

http://www.buchanan1.net/marking_knife/marking_knife.shtml

http://norsewoodsmith.com/content/making-awl-and-marking-knife

http://adventuresinwoodworking.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/making-a-marking-knife-the-stock/


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Here is my iron though I'll likely make a different one for the swap if I have time.

First picture is after rough grinding second is after tempering. Can ya guess what it's made from? It shouldn't be to tough to figure out...


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Nice Jean!

A spade bit if I'm not mistaken.

What degree bevel did you put on that?


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Looks like the end of a single cut file to me.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> Nice Jean!
> 
> A spade bit if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> What degree bevel did you put on that?


lol, look closer. 

The angle? Heck, I don't know I free handed that to what looked right.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oops, ...I stink you're right TR


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> The angle? Heck, I don't know I free handed that to what looked right.


Laughing!

Nobody likes a showoff Jean!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

trc65 said:


> Looks like the end of a single cut file to me.


It was actually a small bastard cut file - i ground that stamp off of the back :smile:

I annealed it, cut it, rough ground it, hardened and tempered it then polished it up (not shown).


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> Laughing!
> 
> Nobody likes a showoff Jean!


lol, sorry wasn't my goal!


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I know, just yankin' yer chain!


----------



## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

These are the blades I bought. 

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020498/27376/pfeil-Swiss-made-Marking-Knife-Kit.aspx


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

In the good spirit of enjoying the knife swap. I have some thoughts and observations to share with the "swappers". Or anyone else that wants to put in their helpful input.

Seems one style of knife won't work "best" in all marking applications. 

The Japanese style surely uses the best steel but with a single sided bevel. It would require two. Right side left side. Some would wonder why so many have no wood around the handle.

Then there are the chip carving type mated with a beefy handle. Probably work fine but lack the refined look and one might question their lack of success and blame it on the knife.

But what about the two bevel spear point? Switch hits. Works on most applications. But too thick to mark out all those tight dovetails everyone is so fond of. So we make the blade thinner. Which comes with a big compromise for sharpening and general layout.

I welcome any comments. Defend your knife. Help me in my quest.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Real woodworkers have more than one "tool"! :thumbsup:


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> In the good spirit of enjoying the knife swap. I have some thoughts and observations to share with the "swappers". Or anyone else that wants to put in their helpful input.
> 
> ***Good idea Al
> 
> ...


....


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

There are many styles - in fact the iron I showed is not the actual knife going out for this swap - a little bait and switch if you will :laughing:

Considering many involved with the swap probably don't currently use a marking knife, I think the biggest gain for those involved is the ponderance of the very questions you bring to light... 

I can't help you decide on a style, I can only suggest that you go with what you feel would be best for YOU and YOUR USE.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'd make the case for the switch hitting spear point, but not just one of them. I think everyone needs at least two of them depending on the tasks they perform. 

The beefier one is the go to for just about any general marking task. The thick blade and large bevel makes them easy to sharpen freehand even if you use a jig for every other sharpening job. The biggest problem with those large ones is they can't fit in between the tails on a lot of the dovetail joints that I make. If your style of dovetails includes larger tails and smaller pins, the large spear point markers won't fit. It also will not work if you are making small dovetails using thin material. So you need a second one that is much smaller for the fine detail work. 

The smaller ones are a little more difficult to sharpen freehand, but lets be honest, you don't need a perfect bevel on it, and it doesn't have to be as sharp as your favorite paring chisel. You are scribing lines with it, not removing wood.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Two other things I failed to mention on my previous post-

Chisel edge marking gauges are not one side markers only. Simply rotating your wrist orients the flat bevel in the correct location for marking.

As already stated a spear point is not as efficient for marking in tight spaces. Do keep in mind that your scribe for dove tails need not be edge to edge - it's a reference.

All that said I'm not making either of those styles... :laughing: I did say this will be intended primarily for dovetails... :huh:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Eeeeek!!!

Can we just make letter openers instead?


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

http://toolmakingart.com/2012/04/16/making-tools-with-hss-blanks/#more-1598


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A Knife for Marking Dovetails.html


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> ....


No I meant thinner. According to Christopher Schwarz. It's got to be thin.









This knife is too thick for this style of dove tail no matter who you are.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> There are many styles - in fact the iron I showed is not the actual knife going out for this swap - a little bait and switch if you will :laughing:
> 
> Considering many involved with the swap probably don't currently use a marking knife, I think the biggest gain for those involved is the ponderance of the very questions you bring to light...
> 
> I can't help you decide on a style, I can only suggest that you go with what you feel would be best for YOU and YOUR USE.


Come on man. Take the bate. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> I'd make the case for the switch hitting spear point, but not just one of them. I think everyone needs at least two of them depending on the tasks they perform.
> 
> The beefier one is the go to for just about any general marking task. The thick blade and large bevel makes them easy to sharpen freehand even if you use a jig for every other sharpening job. The biggest problem with those large ones is they can't fit in between the tails on a lot of the dovetail joints that I make. If your style of dovetails includes larger tails and smaller pins, the large spear point markers won't fit. It also will not work if you are making small dovetails using thin material. So you need a second one that is much smaller for the fine detail work.
> 
> The smaller ones are a little more difficult to sharpen freehand, but lets be honest, you don't need a perfect bevel on it, and it doesn't have to be as sharp as your favorite paring chisel. You are scribing lines with it, not removing wood.


An excellent response. Now we're cookin with gas.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Two other things I failed to mention on my previous post-
> 
> Chisel edge marking gauges are not one side markers only. Simply rotating your wrist orients the flat bevel in the correct location for marking.
> 
> ...


I'm experimenting with the idea that a thick blade with a long cutting edge having a wide face bevel. Thinking it could in fact register on the bevel side and mark in the opposite direction or side.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> Eeeeek!!!
> 
> Can we just make letter openers instead?


Christopher Schwarz did in fact test and use a few different styles and I believe one is in fact in their office opening letters and boxes. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Knife%20for%20Marking%20Dovetails.html


These are the "thin" blades I was referring too. Nice. Good link.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> No I meant thinner. According to Christopher Schwarz. It's got to be thin.
> 
> This knife is too thick for this style of dove tail no matter who you are.
> 
> Al


How thick is the blade pictured?

Today I changed the shape geometry per my most recent posted diagram. 

I wanted to increase the surface area of the reference side of the blade.

I changed from this...









To this...









The spear point bevels will be ground/sharpened to 30°.

Suggestions on bevel ° are welcome.

The thickness of the blade at this point is +/- 1/16"









This thickness will be reduced somewhat by further polishing or lapped to a thickness more suitable to those freakishly tiny dovetails previously illustrated.

As an aside I'm so happy to be participating in this swap.

I'm learning alot through my own research and the input of you guys.

So thank you for your encouragement, suggestions and links!

I've got the tool making bug and I'm already thinking of the possibilities for the next swap.


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## sharbin (Feb 21, 2013)

I have been working a reciprocating saw blade. It has taken an edge well. Not sure yet that I will participate due to time limitations to work on the project and 100+ temps in Texas.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Hope you can join us.

The more the merrier!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

In other news...


----------



## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

firemedic said:


> In other news...


Hahaha I didn't realize you had it like that, Jean! Send a little stack my way, will ya? 

BTW, I don't have time to devote to participate in the swap, but I'm following along. Hope I can get in on the next one!


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> How thick is the blade pictured?
> 
> Today I changed the shape geometry per my most recent posted diagram.
> 
> ...


Looks like your blade thickness meets the "Christopher Schwarz standard". Thin to win. The blade in the picture is more than 1/8". I thought by the looks of many knives. They were all around 1/8". I was wrong. I only quote Schwarts because he wrote about the disadvantage associated with the thicker blade. I think the best way to have a knife to mark well in all applications is to have more than one knife.

Looks like you have a great start on your knife. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

The thought plickens!

http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/tool-review-video-marking-knives.aspx


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

That Hock blade sure is a nice piece of metal, 

but I do a lot of my woodworking in the winter... 

in an unheated shop.... :thumbdown:


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> The thought plickens!
> 
> http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/tool-review-video-marking-knives.aspx


Rut row. This guy didn't think too much of the spear point.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes glasshoppa but me havvy pran for sorution to dat diremma!

Stay tuned!


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

He also really liked the X-acto knife because he could carry it easily in his apron


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I can't hear you (fingers in ears) La La La La La La La...

Still talking?

La La La La La La La La La........


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> He also really liked the X-acto knife because he could carry it easily in his apron


If you notice. He covered the blade before putting it in the pocket. But I sure hope X-acto isn't the best knife for the job or all this work and research is in vein.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> If you notice. He covered the blade before putting it in the pocket. But I sure hope X-acto isn't the best knife for the job or all this work and research is in vein.
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Amen to that!


_Covered Blade_ Hmm.... maybe another design feature to explore...........:laughing:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

New rule (unofficial)

NO NIPPLE RIPPERS!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Just bumping this to the top as a reminder to everyone and maybe to entice some undecided people to join in.

Anyone care to share progress made over the weekend. I glued and epoxied some pieces together and just need to work on some shaping later in the week. 

I'll wait to see what I get in the swap, but I'm probably going to make two additional ones for my own use later!


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

I've not joined in the previous swaps - have had too much on my plate to get in on them. But I am getting in on this one, provided everything turns out!

Saturday I started making some blades from some jig saw blades. I'm going for thin, dovetail style. Got them mostly shaped. Got to finish lapping them so they're flat, give them a preliminary sharpening, then I'm going to try my hand at hardening them. I'm making three of them, just to give myself more practice, and, if they all turn out, to keep a knife or two for myself.

I've been reading some of the links provided, as well as looking at the links from the marking gauge swap thread, and I do have some questions on hardening. Will a propane torch get the metal hot enough and, if so, what color should I be looking for the metal to be glowing? Is it ok to just heat and harden the portion of the blade that will not be in the handle, or do I need to harden the whole thing? Quench in oil or water? After hardening, it seems that I should then put it in a 350F oven for an hour, correct?


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

Here's the end of my blade. I'm doing a full tang, so if I posted the whole thing, it would pretty much give away what the finished knife will look like. I'm going for something "different."

Right now its going to be a single bevel, but I'm thinking of beveling the top edge to make it kind of a spear point. I'm just concerned that will make it look too goofy/murderous.:yes:


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Sprung said:


> I've been reading some of the links provided, as well as looking at the links from the marking gauge swap thread, and I do have some questions on hardening. Will a propane torch get the metal hot enough and, if so, what color should I be looking for the metal to be glowing? Is it ok to just heat and harden the portion of the blade that will not be in the handle, or do I need to harden the whole thing? Quench in oil or water? After hardening, it seems that I should then put it in a 350F oven for an hour, correct?


Here's the link I referenced when I first played around with hardening metal for the marking gauge swap. http://www.threeplanes.net/toolsteel.html

It has a color chart to reference temperatures and also talks about the loosing it's magnetic attraction. Read through it and I think most of your questions will be answered. (at least better than I could!).

I think the hardening primarily needs to be on the business end. I also quenched in motor oil. 

I had a leaky hose on my oxy/acetylene rig when I made the marking gauge so I had to use a propane torch to anneal/harden/temper. It worked, but it took a long time to heat the blade. I've since got the hoses replaced, and am much happier using the oxy/acetylene.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Yesterday I picked up hardware and after work today I practiced using a block plane in the fashion needed to complete the handle.

I also cut the handle blank but I'm not sure that I'm going to use that species.

Things are coming together.

Tomorrow night is all mine and its reserved for this project.

Because I'm using the hardened end of a plane iron for the business end of my blade I'm assuming I need not do any more hardening?


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm having trouble getting the knife made without my metal working tools. That and I just built 6 dining chairs and need to finish them first. Maybe I should have forgone the tool steel and made one of those Blue Spruce look alikes.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> Yesterday I picked up hardware and after work today I practiced using a block plane in the fashion needed to complete the handle.
> 
> I also cut the handle blank but I'm not sure that I'm going to use that species.
> 
> ...


You should be fine - assuming you haven't killed the temper with untamed grinding :smile:


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> I'm having trouble getting the knife made without my metal working tools. That and I just built 6 dining chairs and need to finish them first. Maybe I should have forgone the tool steel and made one of those Blue Spruce look alikes.
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Are you still fishing?


----------



## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Anyone have thoughts about the best finish to use for the handle?


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> You should be fine - assuming you haven't killed the temper with untamed grinding :smile:


I never let it get hot.

I dipped it in water frequently and never got a sizzle.

Think I'm ok?


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> I never let it get hot.
> 
> I dipped it in water frequently and never got a sizzle.
> 
> Think I'm ok?


:thumbup:


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Old Air Force said:


> Anyone have thoughts about the best finish to use for the handle?


I don't know about best, but I am using multiple coats of BLO thinned with MS and a little Japan drier to speed up drying.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> I don't know about best, but I am using multiple coats of BLO thinned with MS and a little Japan drier to speed up drying.


BLO is good. Ever tried thinning with turpentine? It will give you a little harder finish. When you use the Japan. Can you get more than one coat on in a day?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I've never tried turp with just BLO, but I am now:yes:

I have used turpentine in a mix with BLO, pine tar and Japan Drier. I can't remember the name of the mix, but a member posted it here a couple of years and referenced it as a mix that was used on fishing boat decks. I use it on shovel, spade and garden tool handles.

When I add the Japan drier, I usually will put on two coats in a day. If the item is going to be top coated with something, I'll still give it 24-48 hours of cure time after the last coat just to be safe.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65

Here is a link that explains a little about why turp will do a better job with BLO.

http://www.violinvarnish.com/turpentine.htm

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for the article Al. That is an interesting read! 

Definitely going to do some side by side comparisons with MS/BLO, Turp/BLO, MS/BLO/Japan Drier.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Thanks for the article Al. That is an interesting read!
> 
> Definitely going to do some side by side comparisons with MS/BLO, Turp/BLO, MS/BLO/Japan Drier.


I'm going to get a can of Japan.

The two best tips I ever got for finishing wood were from my baby sister and my grandmother. My sister said throw away the brush and my grandmother for the turp. She used it for everything except cooking.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

Just emailed my picture....to he who receives it I'm truly sorry!

~Bumpus


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Bumpus said:


> Just emailed my picture....to he who receives it I'm truly sorry!
> 
> ~Bumpus


Ok then I won't sharpen mine. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> Ok then I won't sharpen mine.
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Wait WHAT? It needs to be sharp? Holy crap!!


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Bumpus said:


> Wait WHAT? It needs to be sharp? Holy crap!!


Not necessarily:huh:

While researching different styles I came across this thread in another forum. I don't necessarily agree with the concept of using dull marking knives, but several others do!


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Bumpus said:


> Wait WHAT? It needs to be sharp? Holy crap!!


Yes please!!!!!!


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I made a lot of progress today.

Just one more step before finishing and assembly.

Wait, two steps including having the blade honed.

I've been enjoying the project but that last step is stressing me a little.

Anyone else stress after 95% of a project is completed? I'd rather screw up in the beginning when there's less time invested.

Eeeeeeek!


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

That's not the "_no turning back, the epoxy is applied" _step is it?:laughing:

If so, I was feeling the same thing a few nights ago. It went together a lot easier than I thought it would. 

Besides, you can always sand the epoxy back after it hardens.:yes:


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Well, it's not epoxy but if I muff it up its a handle do-over. 

I won't go into detail but fitting handle to blade/blade to handle with precision and the steps that followed was a lengthy process.

I don't want to have to repeat it for this swap in the time remaining.

It'll be ok. I'll take my time, and work when I'm focused and rested.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Looks like I'm gonna make the deadline but I need some clarification on rule #6.

"6. To be officially entered into this swap. i must receive an email from you including a completed marking knife. I will edit the first post in this thread to update and keep track of who is entered."

John, Do you mean you need to receive an e.mail including *photos* of the completed knife by August 24?

Are we supposed to send the knife to you to be forwarded to the recipient or do we e.mail you photos then ship directly to the recipient?


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> OAF,
> 
> Where did you get your blade?....


Eeek!

I was re-reading this thread and I just want it to be clear that I wasn't
calling Old Air Force an oaf!

I gotta watch my acronyms!


----------



## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

The completed list has been updated, we are up to 3!!


----------



## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

jharris2 said:


> Eeek!
> 
> I was re-reading this thread and I just want it to be clear that I wasn't
> calling Old Air Force an oaf!
> ...


To be honest, I did not even notice.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm in. I just have to wait for the paint to dry and the battery to charge.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Remember guys, to send me a picture of your completed marking knife at [email protected] to be officially entered into the swap. we still got 6 days left!!


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Mine is done too... Have to try to finish the finish -


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm in as well. 

Gmail doesn't seem to be cooperating right now, but I'll get my picture sent off sometime tonight.


----------



## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm definitely still working - trying to get there! Will hopefully have a way to heat treat the metal come Tuesday night. Was able to glue up the handle portion today and start doing just a little bit of the shaping of it. Got a really busy week ahead of me, so it may come down to the wire for me...


----------



## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Still working and afraid I chose something harder than I expected. Debating with myself about going for plan B.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm finished except for the blade. 

I dropped it off at Precision Sharpening this morning.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Old Air Force said:


> Still working and afraid I chose something harder than I expected. Debating with myself about going for plan B.


plan b.









I've heard it's preferred by many. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I prefer this one. It sure speeds up laying out dovetails:laughing:


----------



## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

The finished list has been updated!! still got a few more days to get your knife pictures sent in! oh and they all are looking sweet!!


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Wema826 said:


> The finished list has been updated!! still got a few more days to get your knife pictures sent in! oh and they all are looking sweet!!


What's the count up to sir?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

It's at 6 right now. The list is updated in the first post of this thread.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I wonder why the turnout is so much slimmer for this one than the marking gauges?


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I think it's just time of year. 

I have so many non-woodworking projects and outside jobs that all need to be done before fall/winter. I'd imagine a lot of people are dealing with some of the same as well as lawn/garden/landscaping.....


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I think it's the time of year and maybe the metal work scared some off.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

The metal work was my biggest concern.

I cut and shaped the blade but in the end I chickened out on the honing and I'm having it done.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> The metal work was my biggest concern.
> 
> I cut and shaped the blade but in the end I chickened out on the honing and I'm having it done.


Great. Maybe I'll receive yours. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> The metal work was my biggest concern.
> 
> I cut and shaped the blade but in the end I chickened out on the honing and I'm having it done.



You could have just added the standard disclaimer "tools are sharpened, but should be honed before use for optimal performance":laughing:


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oh crap! I have to sharpen THEN hone?

What's the difference?


----------



## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

*I have a knife*

The Plan B knife is complete and I will be sending in a photo shortly. It is a hand shaped, ergonomic design in mahogany. I am still working on the Plan A knife, and if I get it done in time I will substitute it for the Plan B knife since it will be much more attractive.


----------



## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

Knife is done, email is sent. I hope the pictures look better than they do on the busted-up phone I took them on.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Old Air Force said:


> The Plan B knife is complete and I will be sending in a photo shortly. It is a hand shaped, ergonomic design in mahogany. I am still working on the Plan A knife, and if I get it done in time I will substitute it for the Plan B knife since it will be much more attractive.


Mahogany makes a great looking handle. Maybe I should have used it to. I almost stopped and went the plan B route too. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

John, e.mail inquiry sent.

Jeff


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Just emailed by photos. This has been a great learning experience for me, and I have really enjoyed it. The B knife turned out pretty nice (at least I think it did.) The A knife brings to mind quotes about bridges being to far and the like. I may finish it some day, but not this week or next. I think I need some more tools....


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

list updated!! SWEET LOOKING KNIVES guys!!! I will let this run till noonish today, email me or pm me if you will need more time.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Well? Did anyone file for an extension or are we swapping 10?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

We are swapping 10! All swappers have been sent a PM to include who they are shipping to. There is 1 that still needs to get me his address. but he is accounted for.

The knives look great guys, Thank you all for participating!!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> We are swapping 10! All swappers have been sent a PM to include who they are shipping to. There is 1 that still needs to get me his address. but he is accounted for.
> 
> The knives look great guys, Thank you all for participating!!


Cool - guess it's my address you need huh... I never sent it, oops!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Shipped this am via USPS priority ....headed west....... :scooter:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Ditto, but I won't tell which direction...


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Ditto, but I won't tell which direction...


Yabut ... :icon_smile: since I'm east coast, almost everywhere is west.... :yes:


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

On my way to the Post Office in a little bit so I can ship mine out before it closes! Shipping out Priority Mail, so my recipient should have it in a few days.


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

I've been out of town, hope to mail tomorrow if I get home in time.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Mine went out Priority Mail this morning. Lady said it should not take more than three days.


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

Shipped mine this morning...Coming UPS, should be there soon. I had the shipping dept send it out from work.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I have not gotten mine packed up yet but hope to tomorrow!


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## sharbin (Feb 21, 2013)

I didn't finish mine in time to join in on the fun. Looking forward to the revelations on this forum though. 

Guess I will finish up what is started and use it myself. But swapping is so much more fun.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Oh it's almost like Christmas.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> Oh it's almost like Christmas.
> 
> Al


Yes it is Al. 

This has been a great experience and its not over yet!!!

Making something for someone else is the best.

I should probably oil up the hinge on my mailbox. It's gonna see alot of wear & tear in the next few days.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

sharbin said:


> I didn't finish mine in time to join in on the fun.
> 
> Guess I will finish up what is started and use it myself. But swapping is so much more fun.


No worries brother. I barely made the deadline myself.

Looking forward to your participation in the next swap.

Edit: Shipping tomorrow first a.m.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I showed the knife to my wife she said it had a nice feel and then said she would like a new set of kitchen knives.  Rut row.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I showed the knife to my wife she said it had a nice feel and then said she would like a new set of kitchen knives.  Rut row


Indeed!!!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Shipped this a.m. usps priority


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Where are the Pics!?!?! I need a fix now that you've gotten me addicted! Somehow I keep seeing these challenges late in the game. I might have even been able to do this one... I can dream!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Heck Frank, if I could do this you most definitely could.

I wasn't too sure about it but Jean encouraged me to "jump on in".

I'm glad I took his advice.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Fellas I still haven't gotten mine to the post office :thumbdown:

I'm doing the best I can with all I have going on. Also - I wanted to do a lot more finish work on it, I'm almost hesitant to send it out but I may have to send another box once I get some free time with some extra goodies.

I'm trying to get out of the shop in time to make the post before is closes... Been here since WAY before they were open...


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Fellas I still haven't gotten mine to the post office :thumbdown:
> 
> I'm doing the best I can with all I have going on. Also - I wanted to do a lot more finish work on it, I'm almost hesitant to send it out but I may have to send another box once I get some free time with some extra goodies.
> 
> I'm trying to get out of the shop in time to make the post before is closes... Been here since WAY before they were open...


:icon_smile:Really don't think it's a life or death situation ....tomorrow's another day. Chill!:thumbsup:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Take a deep breath!

Finish the knife when you can then ship it. 

It's no biggie.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> :icon_smile:Really don't think it's a life or death situation ....tomorrow's another day. Chill!:thumbsup:


Even if it's going to your neighborhood? lol


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Even if it's going to your neighborhood? lol


Especially if it's going to my neighborhood! :icon_biggrin:


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

Looks like I'm the first to get a package! 

Hmm, post pictures or play with my awesome new knife all night? I can only do one...


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Alright! Don't be a tease!

Post! Post! Post!


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

I wanna see; I wanna see.


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

Glad I wound up with a spear point, I've been wanting to try one out. It came with a really nice letter from a fellow Ohioan.

It sits in my hand well and its SHARP. The weight is perfect for making very faint lines, and if I bear down it still cuts cleanly. I also like the two-tone handle. 

Thanks Bumpus! You have definitely Bumped my old pocket knife out of marking duty.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Nice job Bumpus. Thoughtful design. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

KTP - So glad you like it. I fought with the bevels several times and I still wasn't pleased. But if your happy, I'm very happy! Enjoy.

To be honest, I'd never seen a marking knife until this swap started. Not having used one was a handicap. I guess that's part of the plus side of these swaps :thumbsup:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Nice looking knife Bumpus! 

Tell us some more about it - what types of wood? Source of blade, how did you shape/sharpen? 

I like seeing the pictures, but I also really like a discussion on how others went about their build. I usually have several "aha" moments and kick myself for not thinking about details/design/methods that others have used.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Nice looking knife Bumpus.


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

The lighter stripe really seems like maple. Can't make out the dark ones. Stained maple? Walnut? Its too brown to be cherry. I haven't worked in that many different species, so I'm just kind of guessing the names of domestic hardwoods.


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

The handle is maple sandwiched by walnut. The blade is an old sawzall blade. I got the general shape from a old 4" grinder (I really need a new one) and my 1" x 42" bench belt sander. I tried for a 50* spear point but kept chasing the tip back and forth. I was afraid I'd be down to a 1/2" long blade if I kept trying!

The finish on the handle is several coats of clear poly with no stain. I drilled several holes in the end of the handle to make a slot about 3/16ths by 3/8ths or so. Fed the hole with epoxy (much harder than I thought it would be. Been a while since I had used epoxy, didn't flow like I thought it would!) and inserted the handle. The epoxy was so thick the blade almost stood by itself.

There's my story and I'm stickin' to it! Thanks for the kind words everyone and again KTP, I'm glad you like it and can use it. Now, back to my regularly scheduled Christmas list of projects. I MUST keep the wife off the computer. She keeps searching and asks...'this wouldn't be to hard to make would it?' My pat answer has been 'Nope, but I'll need another (insert wanted tool here) first!' She will catch on sooner or later. :whistling2:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Bumpus said:


> The handle is maple sandwiched by walnut. The blade is an old sawzall blade. I got the general shape from a old 4" grinder (I really need a new one) and my 1" x 42" bench belt sander. I tried for a 50* spear point but kept chasing the tip back and forth. I was afraid I'd be down to a 1/2" long blade if I kept trying!


I know what you mean about chasing the tip. I went through more than one blade while I was trying to get one I liked (and still have it long enough to use).:laughing:


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Went to the mailbox this evening and found a package from Sprung in North Dakota. Inside with this beautiful marking knife.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Old Air Force said:


> Went to the mailbox this evening and found a package from Sprung in North Dakota. Inside with this beautiful marking knife.


Wait, what? No pictures? Ahhhhhhhhh....... :sad:

Ah, yes, now they're showing. Thanks!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

I can't see the pictures either!


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Alchymist said:


> Wait, what? No pictures? Ahhhhhhhhh....... :sad:


First time trying to post pictures and I did it wrong on the first try.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Got em!

Bump and Matt,

Nice job guys!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Great looking knife!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

2 for 2 on the spear points. We should see a lot of hand cut dove tails soon. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

Bumpus - Nice knife!



Old Air Force said:


> Went to the mailbox this evening and found a package from Sprung in North Dakota. Inside with this beautiful marking knife.


Glad you like it. As I wrote in the letter, this was the first marking knife I've made, and I've never used one before (other than reaching for the utility knife on the rare occasion.) I hope it serves you well for many years!

(Wood is purpleheart and will become more purple in a few weeks. The blade is an old jigsaw blade that I ground down, hardened, and tempered. First time hardening and tempering metal too!)


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Nice knives, fellas!


And both of them were first timers to both making and using! That, right there, is why these swaps so so awesome. 

See how easy it is to make a few of your own tools! 

Already has my gears turning for the next one...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> Especially if it's going to my neighborhood! :icon_biggrin:


It's going in the mail tomorrow. I will be at FD for 5 days straight :thumbdown: and I'll actually have time to drop it at the post. 

I didn't get to finish a few tiny details (nothing major just not quite my standard) but I'm not going to wait any longer to get it sent. There are a couple other goodies in the box too that I think you will be able to put to use. 

Let me just say it now, my preference of marking knives take a bit to get the hang of (no training wheels) but feel natural after you do. I think of them as more of a bench knife with many uses. You'll see what I mean.

ps - sorry, my ability with a needle stinks, I'm not that domesticated :laughing:


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Nice knives, fellas!
> 
> 
> And both of them were first timers to both making and using! That, right there, is why these swaps so so awesome.
> ...


You know what you are? An enabler! :laughing: Shop made tool swaps, group buys on saws, freely offering great advice about hand tools and their use, etc.

And you (and others too) being that kind of an enabler is a good thing! It really helps out the guys like me who may have a few, or even no, skills, but are still trying to get our feet wet and have lots to learn.

The previous mallet and marking gauge swaps encouraged me to try and make my own of both after the fact, after I saw the results and realized how easy they'd be to make. So I jumped in on this swap, even though a 9 month old keeps my wife and I busy (and limits my shop time since my workshop is directly below his room!) I'm very glad I jumped in on this one and look forward to expanding my skills with further swaps!


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

When I was home for lunch earlier the mailman delivered a package for me from jharris2!

Per the note, the knife is made of "steel, copper, teak, and maple with a satin lacquer finish." The blade is reversible too! There's a set screw in the side that holds the blade in place. The knife even included a base, sheath, extra set screw, and a hex key.

Such a sweet knife, Jeff! :thumbsup: Thank you! I'm looking forward to many years of use for this knife - especially since this is the only marking knife I currently have!


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Sprung said:


> When I was home for lunch earlier the mailman delivered a package for me from jharris2!
> 
> Per the note, the knife is made of "steel, copper, teak, and maple with a satin lacquer finish." The blade is reversible too! There's a set screw in the side that holds the blade in place. The knife even included a base, sheath, extra set screw, and a hex key.
> 
> Such a sweet knife, Jeff! :thumbsup: Thank you! I'm looking forward to many years of use for this knife - especially since this is the only marking knife I currently have!


Awesome knife Jeff! The reversible blade was a great idea!!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Cool knife, Jeff!:thumbsup: Wish I'd thought of that!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Sweet looking knife!

A great idea on the reversible blade.:thumbsup:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Very nice knife! Well executed! :thumbup:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Sprung said:


> You know what you are? An enabler! :laughing: Shop made tool swaps, group buys on saws, freely offering great advice about hand tools and their use, etc.
> 
> And you (and others too) being that kind of an enabler is a good thing! It really helps out the guys like me who may have a few, or even no, skills, but are still trying to get our feet wet and have lots to learn.
> 
> The previous mallet and marking gauge swaps encouraged me to try and make my own of both after the fact, after I saw the results and realized how easy they'd be to make. So I jumped in on this swap, even though a 9 month old keeps my wife and I busy (and limits my shop time since my workshop is directly below his room!) I'm very glad I jumped in on this one and look forward to expanding my skills with further swaps!


Man, It's all about education. That's why I donate the time that I do to LSU. When you have a passion you want to share it with others!

I hope I can get the saws taken care of soon... after that I'm going to let you all in on some other projects in the works. Not saying what, but the whistlers below might know...

:whistling2:black smith forged hold fasts, bench hooks, cheap group order of premium chisels from a BIG NAME BRAND, wooden vise screws and nuts, frame saw blades, O1 plane irons and several other things:whistling2:


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Jeff, you really put some thought into that knife. It's impressive.


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

Hot dog!!! Guess what I got?

I nice letter, a damn fine marking knife AND a matching awl! The note says it's from Clay but doesn't mention their screen name. I'm sure I'll figure it out! I'm very pleased, thanks!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Jeff Jeff Jeff. Not fair. Can't top that. What a great idea to go AC - DC on the blade. Nice to see I'm chatting with people that are smarter than me. Clearly.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Nice knife Clay, and a bonus too! 

Bumpus - did you get the bottle of Korbel, or just the cork?


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Bumpus said:


> Hot dog!!! Guess what I got?
> 
> I nice letter, a damn fine marking knife AND a matching awl! The note says it's from Clay but doesn't mention their screen name. I'm sure I'll figure it out! I'm very pleased, thanks!


Two! That's cheating! I lamented long as to which style of knife to make. But nice touch anyway. Be honest, the awl was your first attempt at grinding out the knife. 

Very nice brass ferrules and handles.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

Just the cork....better idea than my folded cardboard with tape sheath! Even without the wine, I'm a happy sawdust maker!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks for the compliments, all. And no, the awl was NOT my first try at the knife. No way I could have ground it that round. Had trouble enough putting a point on it. 

(And the handles were done on the home made pen lathe).


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## sharbin (Feb 21, 2013)

All of the swaps have been really awesome so far 

Alchymist- what wood did you use for the handles? Is that walnut? Also curious what you used to fabricate the blade.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Another great looking knife, this time with a sibling.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

sharbin said:


> All of the swaps have been really awesome so far
> 
> Alchymist- what wood did you use for the handles? Is that walnut? Also curious what you used to fabricate the blade.


Yes, the handles are walnut, paste wax finish. The blade is from a piece of stainless from a scissor blade, shaped on a grinder and finished with a file and emery cloth. Tough to file, I might add.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Alchymist said:


> Yes, the handles are walnut, paste wax finish. The blade is from a piece of stainless from a scissor blade, shaped on a grinder and finished with a file and emery cloth. Tough to file, I might add.


Oh that's good. Using a scissor blade. Great Way to get stainless.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Sprung said:


> When I was home for lunch earlier the mailman delivered a package for me from jharris2!
> 
> Per the note, the knife is of "steel, copper, teak, and maple with a satin lacquer finish." The blade is reversible too! There's a set screw in the side that holds the blade in place. The knife even included a base, sheath, extra set screw, and a hex key.
> 
> ...


Correction, its the only two marking knives you have! 

I'm so glad you're not disappointed.

You were kind enough not to mention the flaws but I will.

The blade is easy to insert when using the spear point but for some reason somewhat difficult when using the other end.

Be careful! I cut myself trying to insert the spear point into the handle.

Also, the sheath slides on easily one way but if you flip it over it glides right on. Be sure to slip it on the easy way so as not to split the glue line on the sheath. There's not much surface area on that glue up.

I probably should have used a feather board on my RT fence when I routed the grooves in the two halves of the handle. I thought I was keeping the material flat to the table but apparently not.

Also, when I was creeping up on the depth of the grooves I held the halves together. I should have clamped them together to get a better sense of the fit.

Oh, don't over tighten the set screw.

I realized after the fact that teak may not be the best material hardness wise to provide durable threads for the set screw.

With the index line across the blade you should never have to remove the screw to make sure you're not bearing on the cutting edge of either point.

Again, I'm very happy that your pleased!


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Bumpus said:


> Hot dog!!! Guess what I got?
> 
> I nice letter, a damn fine marking knife AND a matching awl! ...


Clay, I never thought I'd say this to a guy but Whoa! Nice pair!!!


----------



## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Al B Thayer said:


> Oh that's good. Using a scissor blade. Great Way to get stainless.
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


One piece left, guess where it's going? (Which style blade depends on which style I receive in the swap). :thumbsup:

Just as in the mallet and marking gauge swap, lots of diversity and some beautifully rendered items. Can't wait to see the rest of them!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> Clay, I never thought I'd say this to a guy but Whoa! Nice pair!!!


:lol::icon_biggrin::smile::laughing:

Thanks, I think!:yes:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Jeff, your comment on the set screw and not over tightening it got me thinking - How strong is epoxy? Could you drill a larger hole and fill with epoxy, then drill/tap? Would the epoxy hold up to that? Or is the wood itself be stronger?

Anybody care to educate me? I've never really worked with epoxy in that manner.

BTW - this is the best part of these swaps, seeing all the different designs and then trying to figure out how I'd duplicate each project with my tools/abilities.:thumbsup:


----------



## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> Correction, its the only two marking knives you have!
> 
> I'm so glad you're not disappointed.
> 
> ...


Yes, the only 2 knives I have! :laughing:

It may have flaws - so what! If we closely examined each knife made for the swap, I don't think we'd find a single knife that was 100% perfect in every way. We're all humans. We're all learning as we go along. It may have some flaws, but it's a fantastic knife even with them!

As far as the set screw in teak goes, what I might do then is remove the set screw and put a few drops of thin super glue in there. It should soak into the wood a little bit and toughen it up some. (Then reinsert the set screw AFTER the glue is dry!) The super glue might reinforce the wood enough to solve any potential issues, like me and my giant ogre hands overtightening it!

I must say that both ends of the blade are wicked sharp. Like, seriously, awesomely sharp. That's a very good thing, but I'm also a little terrified of cutting myself too! :laughing: I've got a couple really small files that should fit into the opening for the blade. I'm sure a few minutes with a file should take care of the sticking blade problem!

Seriously, it's awesome! I've got no complaints! It feels great in my hand and I know that it will see a lot of use.

Out of curiosity, what did you do to the copper to make it look like that? That's pretty sweet!


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

trc65 said:


> ...Jeff, your comment on the set screw and not over tightening it got me thinking - How strong is epoxy? Could you drill a larger hole and fill with epoxy, then drill/tap? Would the epoxy hold up to that? Or is the wood itself be stronger?
> 
> ***Tim, I wouldn't worry about the set screw. My biggest concern was the possibility of cross threading it if it was removed and replaced during blade reversal.
> 
> ...


....


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oops! Another thing Matt,

The spear point was a no brainer, works for a lefty and a righty.

The regular point was beveled for a right hander. I figured that way the odds were in the favor of the recipient.

Hope your not a South paw!!!!


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks to all of you guys for your kind comments and thanks for participating.

This has been a great experience for me too. 

I was a little intimidated by the project. Like many of you I hadn't any experience in such things.

I've never used a marking knife before so I didn't have any personal knowledge to rely on.

I kind of took the easy way by using a plan/design from one of my WoodSmith mags.

http://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/310/markingknife.pdf

The little added embellishments were mine but they just seemed to be a natural progression from the original design.

I happened to glance at the cutoff from the glued up blank and thought it would make a good sheath. I cut it down to size and plugged one end with maple.



The handle rolled off my bench so I made a rest for it. Then I drilled a hole in the rest for the Allen wrench.



I managed to lose one of the Allen screws (darn things aren't much bigger than a BB!) so I drilled a hole in the bottom of the rest for a spare.



Al, you may think you chat with people smarter than you here(I know I do) but I'm certainly not one of them.

I can't tell you how many times your participation in these threads has helped me out of a jam or given me an "Aha!" moment.

Anyway, like I said this has been great! 

Can't wait to receive my knife and get started on the next swap!

Edit: Just noticed another flaw!
Instead of drilling a large hole for the spare screw and keeping it in with tape I should have drilled and tapped the same as I did on the handle and screwed it in.

DOH!!!!

Edit: Matt, To get the patina on the copper I brushed the ferrules with peanut oil and heated them with a propane torch. Other color options are described in the plans.


----------



## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

Jeff, now that you link those plans, I remember seeing them somewhere a while ago and thinking about how sweet that knife was, but how there was no way I could make it since I didn't have a router. (I just bought my first router this past week from the same guy I picked up my first bandsaw from also this week!) For some reason the copper looked familiar, but I just couldn't pinpoint where I had seen it before - now I know! And now I have that knife that I once thought was sweet and wished I could make! :laughing:

Yes, I am a righty - so no worries there!

My opinion is that these swaps aren't necessarily about creating something that is perfect in every way, but rather about trying something new and challenging ourselves and then being able to share that with someone else.

(BTW: Ever since I dropped mine in the mail to make its way to Old Air Force, I've been nervous and wondering if I didn't make some critical error in the construction of mine. Looking at the pictures of the other ones that have been posted, I wish I had made the angle on the blade steeper so it could come to more of a point, like the one Jeff made for me.)


----------



## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

The government office says my knife will reach its owner on Tues.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


----------



## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Got this in the mail yesterday!





























Thank you TRC65!

the handle is white oak sandwiched over osage orange. 

The box is fumed white oak! And look at those tiny tiny DT's. Very impressive!

This knife looks amazing. And it works even better!


----------



## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Another great looking knife. The box is really nice; I would be tempted to use it for something where it would be seen more often.


----------



## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

trc65 said:


> Jeff, your comment on the set screw and not over tightening it got me thinking - How strong is epoxy? Could you drill a larger hole and fill with epoxy, then drill/tap? Would the epoxy hold up to that? Or is the wood itself be stronger?
> 
> Anybody care to educate me? I've never really worked with epoxy in that manner.
> 
> BTW - this is the best part of these swaps, seeing all the different designs and then trying to figure out how I'd duplicate each project with my tools/abilities.:thumbsup:


Tim, epoxy would be an excellent solution to that particular issue. It will certainly be stronger than just the wood and will take a tap fairly well. Mix in a little sawdust (go lighter color than you think) and you can get a pretty good match that is nearly invisible, if you're careful.


----------



## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Epoxy might be an alternative but seems extreme.

Your not going to be using a torque wrench in the set screw.


----------



## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for the info Frank, that's what I was looking for.

Just to be clear for everyone, my question about the strength of epoxy and the ability of it to take threads had _nothing_ to do with the knife Jeff made. It doesn't need it and as he said it would have been extreme. 

I apologize if anyone thought I was suggesting epoxy was needed in that situation. I should have been more clear in my question.

It was the fact that he used a set screw that got me thinking about other applications where something like a set screw could be used but it needed some torque to hold something in place. I was just curious if epoxy could be drilled and threaded and if it would have any strength. I don't have any particular application in mind, but maybe something that was too thin to use a threaded insert.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Alchymist said:


> Thanks for the compliments, all. And no, the awl was NOT my first try at the knife. No way I could have ground it that round. Had trouble enough putting a point on it.
> 
> (And the handles were done on the home made pen lathe).


I meant to ask earlier, but got distracted. What did you use for the metal part of the awl?


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Old Air Force said:


> I meant to ask earlier, but got distracted. What did you use for the metal part of the awl?


Sorry, should have included that info earlier. I used a piece of drill rod, then hardened and tempered it.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

trc65 said:


> ...Just to be clear for everyone, my question about the strength of epoxy and the ability of it to take threads had nothing to do with the knife Jeff made. It doesn't need it and as he said it would have been extreme...


No worries Tim, I didn't take offence.

Actually, you raised a very good question. 

I'd never even thought about using epoxy for the application you described. Brilliant thought on your part!

So, I'm thinking (uh oh, clear the vicinity!  ) that in order to use the method you suggest one would have to:

-Drill a hole larger than the set screw.

- Fill the hole with epoxy and let it cure.

-Drill a pilot hole into the epoxy that is sized appropriately for the tap and screw

-Tap the hole and insert screw

Viola! A "cast in place" threaded insert.

I wish I'd thought of that!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> Viola! A "cast in place" threaded insert.
> 
> I wish I'd thought of that!


That's pretty much the process I was thinking. Now I just have to find something to make to try it out on.:laughing:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Wema826 said:


> Thank you TRC65!


You're very welcome John, I'm glad you like it!

A note on the construction for those interested:

The thin strip of osage orange was my solution for inserting the blade. I started with an oak blank and cut it in two. Cut a thin strip of osage orange and used card scraper to get it to approx. thickness of the blade then glued it to one half of the blank. Used a chisel to make room for the blade and then epoxied the blade and other half of oak at the same time.

Like others have done, the blade is a re-purposed jig saw blade.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Hooray! 

I received my knife from Kevin (KTP) today and it's beautiful!!!

Made from an old Stanley Bailey plane iron, the handle is purple heart with a satin poly finish.

The business end of the blade is curved into a full length tang and the handle halves are are attached with solid brass rivets. The top of the blade is also honed as an alternate marking edge. Cool!!!

I was pleasantly surprised that Kevin extended the tang past the butt of the handle.

This portion shows the original manufacturing marks of the plane iron. Nice touch Kevin!

The handle is nicely curved, rounded over on all outside edges, and fits my hand perfectly.

Kevin, you obviously put a lot of thought into the design of this knife.

The execution is flawless.

I couldn't be more pleased.

Thank you!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

View attachment 78201


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Kevin, one beautiful and unique knife! :thumbsup:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

WOW! That is a great looking knife Kevin, and made from a Sweet Heart blade as well:thumbsup:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Tim, 

Beautiful knife man! 

The osage orange and fumed white oak make for very nice contrast in the handle and the DT presentation box is a nice touch.

Jeff


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Alchymist said:


> Ken, one beautiful and unique knife! :thumbsup:





trc65 said:


> WOW! That is a great looking knife Ken, and made from a Sweet Heart blade as well:thumbsup:


Sorry all,

My knife was made by Kevin (KTP) not "Ken".

Please edit your posts to credit Kevin.

I've been trying to use first names as much as possible and I screwed up.

Sorry Kevin!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Wondering if the Mods might change the title of this thread to "Marking Knife Swap".

There's a wealth of info here on marking knives. The new title would make a search on the subject more fruitful for those interested in the subject.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

A vey unique idea beautifully executed. Kudos to Kevin.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Great craftsmanship Kevin. Very nice finish.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I got into town late yesterday to find my "order" for a marking knife had arrived. It's beautiful. Hand crafted to match my try square. Made with the finest Swiss steel blade with a hand made mahogany handle with a wipe on finish. I quickly gave it a try and it works great. Perfect for a wood snob like me.









Hats off to Rich and a thank you to the guy drawing the names out of the hat.

Thanks Rich (Old Air Force)


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

Oooh, more knives! Nice work guys! I'm really enjoying seeing all the different styles of knives that were made.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Great knife Rich! That makes for a good looking matched set


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

*Thanks!*

I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone for their help and answers during this swap. I'd have been completely lost with it. 

I'd also like to thank Clay for the knife and awl. The thought and time that went into those tools mean a lot to me. Again, nice job and thanks! :thumbsup:


PS: What's next?:smile:


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Al B Thayer said:


> I got into town late yesterday to find my "order" for a marking knife had arrived. It's beautiful. Hand crafted to match my try square. Made with the finest Swiss steel blade with a hand made mahogany handle with a wipe on finish. I quickly gave it a try and it works great. Perfect for a wood snob like me.
> 
> Hats off to Rich and a thank you to the guy drawing the names out of the hat.
> 
> Thanks Rich (Old Air Force)


Al, that's a super looking knife.
Rich, that blade looks superb....nice job.




Bumpus said:


> I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone for their help and answers during this swap. I'd have been completely lost with it.
> 
> I'd also like to thank Clay for the knife and awl. The thought and time that went into those tools mean a lot to me. Again, nice job and thanks! :thumbsup:
> 
> PS: What's next?:smile:


Really glad you like them. Was an enjoyable project. The one you made looked pretty sweet too! :thumbsup:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Well I used the beautiful knife Kevin made for me today for the first time and it works like a dream.

I had to run dados into some Baltic birch to accept some shelving.

I used an up-cut spiral bit in my router. I ran a test cut and there was some tearout along the top edge of the dado.

I broke out Kevins knife and marked/scored both sides of the dados on the actual workpieces and cut my dados with no tearout whatsoever.

Even though I taped off the intersections of the carcass assembly there's always a little squeeze out in the corners once the tape is removed.

Hmmm... what to do?

Again, I reached for "old trusty" and used the top grind to remove the "shqueeze". 

The way the blade and handle are curved allowed me to get right into the corners and use the top grind as a mini scraper. Worked like a charm!

I know the knife wasn't intended for "shqueeze removal" but hey if it works why not?

Rest assured, this treasure WILL NOT be used to open cans, loosen screws or any other such foolishness!

Still smilin'!!!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Very nicely done Rich!

Yet another heirloom quality knife.

Jeff


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Great knife Rich! That makes for a good looking matched set


Same wipe on finish on both. What luck. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

jharris2 said:


> Sorry all,
> 
> My knife was made by Kevin (KTP) not "Ken".
> 
> ...


 
Don't worry about it. My college roommate was named Kent and people called us by the wrong names for four years!

Happy to hear its working out for you. I was very interested to know if the little bevel on the top edge would be useful for anything or not. It was an experiment to create kind of a hybrid spear point. The fasteners are actually four short wood screws with the slots ground off the heads. They pass through the blade but not all the way through the far side of the handle.

Also, your knife looks great! That's a cool trick with the copper, I'm going to need to try that on a little sheet copper project I'm working on.


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

+1 props to Tim, I love that Osage orange and white oak combo.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

I have really enjoyed every aspect of this swap, and I learned a lot by participating. It has been especially fun seeing all the different ideas that people used to create their knives. I would do another swap in a heartbeat. Special thanks to John for handling all the details that made it work.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Ditto


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Ditto

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

So...

Like Bump said "What's next?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I've been a really terrible person 


I got a box from John (Wema three days ago and have been on the run since. It's really nice and came in a sweet box. When I get back to the station and get this report done I'll get some pictures and get them up!


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

HA! Its about time.... lol


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

....


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Ok! Here it is! 

It fits the hand quite nicely and it and the box are real lookers! It has a second blade so it's interchangeable to taste / tasks.

Very nice John, thank you!

I have not had an opportunity to use it yet but should soon... Maybe not be until mid Sept though 

I'll let John tell us what the lumbers are and how he made his two irons!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

SWEET!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Your welcome Jean! Im happy you like it. The box front top and back are made from walnut sap wood. The sides are mahogany. The lid hinge pins are cedar. The inside bottom are eucalyptus slices bookmatched. The inside frame is maple. The knife handle is cherry that was turned on the lathe. The 2 blades are made from an old thickness planer blade.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Beautiful job on the knife and the box John!

Great design and execution on both.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Really nice work. The box is especially nice. Well done.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

So is Alchymist the only one still left waiting for a knife?

I'm sorry 

It should be there soon. I really dropped the ball on this :thumbdown: Let the rock throwing commence!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> So is Alchymist the only one still left waiting for a knife?
> 
> I'm sorry
> 
> It should be there soon. I really dropped the ball on this :thumbdown: Let the rock throwing commence!


No rocks from this end! Participation is half the fun, anticipation the other half! :smile:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Bad thing is now through Feb is my busiest time of year  I'll be doing several demos and classes each month while trying to keep furniture going and my obligations to my "real job" at the FD. 

...all while trying to get a new timber framed school / museum addition building built and a new shop for my biz :smile: It's going to be a rough yr.

Hopefully I can squeeze in on the next swap too if it's interesting!

How bout we do an infill smoother next go round? :laughing:


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> So is Alchymist the only one still left waiting for a knife?


I haven't received mine yet, but I have a feeling there will be a box in the mail today.:yes: 

If it gets here before I leave for work I'll have pictures up tonight (I'll be gone overnight) otherwise pictures will be posted tomorrow aft/evening when I get home.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Mailman just delivered a box and I only have time to open it and admire the knife within - it's one fantastic knife!:thumbsup: No time for pictures right now - off to work.

I'll post pictures and description later tonight.

Thanks Al.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

trc65 said:


> Mailman just delivered a box and I only have time to open it and admire the knife within - it's one fantastic knife!:thumbsup: No time for pictures right now - off to work.
> 
> I'll post pictures and description later tonight.
> 
> Thanks Al.


Sorry for sending so late.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

It was well worth waiting for Al:thumbsup:

Here are the pictures with a description from the nice letter that Al sent along with the knife.

The knife is made from tool steel and cherry. This particular piece of cherry Al has had for over 25 years and it was harvested at least 50 years prior to that. That makes it an heirloom before I even get to use it! 

The wood is sap wood, so it doesn't have the "typical" cherry look to it. It is attached with brass rod for pins. The finish is 6 coats of lacquer and then rubbed with pumice (it feels like silk). He used lacquer for a finish as it also adheres to the steel to give it protection.

It is a Japanese style knife and really has a great feel in the hand. As you can see in the pictures it has a large bevel on it and will work for right or left hand use and for marking both sides of dovetails (I'm right handed in spite of the pictures with it in my left hand - I couldn't work the camera with my left:no.

I haven't got a chance to use it yet, but I can tell just from the balance and weight that it's going to be a great knife in the shop.


Thanks again Al, it's a wonderful addition to my tool chest.







!


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Really beautiful. I did not look back through all the pictures, but I think this is the first knife with a full tang. It is certainly a fine looking tool.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Very nice Al! Someone went the "traditional" - "knife" route! 

Looks great!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Excelente ....beautiful job, Al. :thumbsup:


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

Yet another fine marking knife!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks to all. I have to admit. I thought this swap was going to be a walk in the park. Turned out I really learned a lot and have had a great time posting and reading the thread.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Very nice Al! Someone went the "traditional" - "knife" route!
> 
> Looks great!


Got the inspiration from a Japanese knife I saw on the net while surfing over the many different styles.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## KTP (Mar 12, 2013)

Very nice! Looks like a joy to use. I love the look of that big single bevel.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

One left to go!


Alchymist, no package yet???


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> One left to go!
> 
> 
> Alchymist, no package yet???


Nein! Don't forget, I am so far out in the sticks that we pipe sunshine in and moonshine out. Takes electrons an extra second to reach us from the internet!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

firemedic said:


> One left to go!
> 
> Alchymist, no package yet???


Pony Express throw a shoe down there in LA?

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Alchymist said:


> Nein! Don't forget, I am so far out in the sticks that we pipe sunshine in and moonshine out. Takes electrons an extra second to reach us from the internet!


:laughing: 
I gave it to the secretary to go out on Thur afternoon! 




Al B Thayer said:


> Pony Express throw a shoe down there in LA?
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


:laughing: they use gators to pull the wagon down here so maybe the gator got bushwhacked by Troy Landry? lol

ps the state record (which doesn't say much because it doesn't go back very far) was broken last week with this bad boy - almost 800 lbs!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> :laughing:
> I gave it to the secretary to go out on Thur afternoon!


Don't forget, Sunday AND Monday don't count for moving the mail.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

*:thumbsup::w00t::thumbsup:*

:thumbsup::w00t:

Yep, mailman brought a Louisiana style package today. *THANKS*, firemedic!

Pictures do not do it justice, trust me. And it is sharp! Well worth the wait. A nice letter with it, along with some beautiful rosewood to build a marking gauge and some Renaissance wax which I can't wait to try.
:thumbsup::w00t:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Alchymist said:


> :thumbsup::w00t:
> 
> Yep, mailman brought a Louisiana style package today. THANKS, firemedic!
> 
> ...


Oh that's a beauty. I bet it is sharp. Hey Firemedic you weren't peeking over my shoulder were you.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Glad you like it and I hope you were able to make sense of what I wrote about using it!


:smile: no, Al, I think yours looks nicer!

It's not shown in the picture but it is a double-bevel knife... That's right, I went against the grain big time. 

This is the style of marking knife that I find most all around useful and being I figured this could end up with someone who didn't have any other knives on the bench I went with that. 

It's a "bench knife" and is useful for much more than marking - as I described in the letter.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm kind of fired up to pound out another knife. Double bevel out of some thick Damascus steel. I can see why making knives is so popular.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Sprung (Oct 8, 2012)

Yet another great knife!

I had fun with this swap! Glad I finally got in on a swap. It was fun to try my hand at something new and fun to see all the different knives made.

Thank you to those who made this swap happen and to those to provided advice, help, and encouragement along the way. I think I only asked one question along the way, but I was following along with the other questions asked, because if some of those other questions weren't answered, I'd have been lost!

So, what's next? So long as it's not too far out there for me to handle, I'm in!


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

If my count is correct, everyone shipped and received their knife?

Awesome Job guys, all around the table, I think there is not a bad knife in the bunch!! 

Thank you all for participating.

Next question, what is the next swap going to be? and who is going to run it?

*not it!*


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> If my count is correct, everyone shipped and received their knife?
> 
> Awesome Job guys, all around the table, I think there is not a bad knife in the bunch!!
> 
> ...


Infill smoothing plane!


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Knife shipped, knife received.

John, I know I speak for all of us when I say many thanks for facilitating this swap.

Thanks to everyone for your participation, sharing of ideas and information.

Thanks to you guys with experience in tool making for your advice and encouragement to those of us who've never made tools.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Infill smoothing plane!


I have no idea what that is Jean but I'll do some research.

If I think I can pull it off I'm in.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> I have no idea what that is Jean but I'll do some research.
> 
> If I think I can pull it off I'm in.


An infill is a hand plane with steel sides and sole and "infill" with wood.

Timetestedtools has made some, I think also Firemedic and other forum members.

Timetestedtools blog.

http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/tag/infill-plane/


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks to the gang of swappers. A special thank you to you John for leading a great swap.

Al B Thayer

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Great looking knife Jean.:thumbsup: 


I'd be up for an infill plane (I think:blink. 

When I saw that on the list of choices I was kind of hoping and dreading equally that it would be chosen. Never done one, but I think it would be a great challenge.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I'm kind of fired up to pound out another knife. Double bevel out of some thick Damascus steel. I can see why making knives is so popular.


+1 After seeing all the different type knives I really want to get my hands on some tool steel and start playing around. I think knives are kind of like pencils and steel rules - you can never have enough laying around.:laughing:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

trc65 said:


> Great looking knife Jean.:thumbsup:
> 
> I'd be up for an infill plane (I think:blink.
> 
> When I saw that on the list of choices I was kind of hoping and dreading equally that it would be chosen. Never done one, but I think it would be a great challenge.


:laughing:
I really was joking. If web do a plane swap it should really be just a wooden plane. I think the metal work would probably exclude too many people. 

Baby steps!

And yes, a big thanks to John for organizing the swap! I think it went very well and quite smooth.

Oh, and whoever runs the next swap is welcome to the wwtswaps email address. I'll clear out the emails from previous swaps and pm the password for it if they want it.


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

firemedic said:


> :laughing:
> I really was joking. If web do a plane swap it should really be just a wooden plane. I think the metal work would probably exclude too many people.
> 
> Baby steps!
> ...


I am so glad that you were kidding about the infill plane. Now that I won't be sacred off from participating, I will sleep on the possibility of organizing the next one.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Oh, and whoever runs the next swap is welcome to the wwtswaps email address. I'll clear out the emails from previous swaps and pm the password for it if they want it.


OH!! I see how it is, You dont offer it to me! you make me go out and make my own email address..... 

Fricken firefighters..... i tell ya.:gun_bandana: 

Also to the next swap leader. If you dont want to use mister stingy's email you are welcome to use [email protected]. I would be happy to offer up the password as well. 

please note the sarcasm. I am just bustin Firemedics couplings a bit!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

:laughing: 

I meant to, then forgot, then remembered and then saw you had already posted an address....

So go save a life or something. Don't you have cats to save out of trees?


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Al, Jean,

Kudos to you both on your knives.

They're both beautiful.

What a great bunch of knives by all.
Put them all in a row and they make one fine collection.


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## Bumpus (Aug 4, 2012)

firemedic said:


> :laughing:
> I really was joking. If web do a plane swap it should really be just a wooden plane. I think the metal work would probably exclude too many people.
> 
> Baby steps!
> ...


 
My 'pucker-factor' just returned to normal!


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## Old Air Force (Jan 14, 2013)

Having thought this over, I will agree to organize the next swap when we are ready to do one.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> Wondering if the Mods might change the title of this thread to "Marking Knife Swap".
> 
> There's a wealth of info here on marking knives. The new title would make a search on the subject more fruitful for those interested in the subject.


....


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Guys

While I don't participate in these swaps, I read every one of them and I just want to say that the degree of talent shown by everyone is amazing! :thumbsup:


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