# Brands of Woodworking Equipment



## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

This is a question that is basic and will generate many opinions, but can anyone give me a hierarchy of brands of woodworking equipment? I have a pretty good grasp on what is good and what is not for the tools found at Lowes (Bosch, Makita, DeWalt, Porter Cable, etc.) What I am not acquainted with at all are the bigger and more specialized woodworking names---Baleigh, Powermatic, Jet, Delta, Festool, Fein, Grizzly, etc.

Please add other names to that group....I'm basically looking for an evaluation of all the names you would NOT find at Lowes or Home Depot.

What brand(s) are king or top of the line? I generally like to buy quality equipment and often like getting commercial models for durability.

In addition to giving the "classification" of each brand, any pros and cons would be appreciated (durability, quality, commercial built or not, price, etc.)

I am just now starting the research phase into many of these items but as I look to outfit my shop with things such as a bandsaw, jointer, shaper, drill press, planer, joiner, etc. I'm getting into many names that I've never bought before.

What are the names that woodworkers would die to have in their shop and what are the names you want to steer clear of?

Thanks for your help!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

The problem is that you've essentially just asked which is better....Chevy trucks or ford trucks.....

You will never get agreement on a brand. Your more likely to get agreement on a single tool.


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

I agree Ryan! But, what I am looking for is general classification. Ford Chevy and dodge may be tit for tat but they aren't Land Rover, BMW, or Masseratti! I am looking for what is low grade, mid grade, and luxury. Or, are all those I listed in the same class, each with strong and weak points?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

+1 with Ryan.

It is not practical to attempt to "rate" the brands.

A company may have a terrific product in one tool design and a less than terrific product in another tool design.

As the tool brands are sold, they may not produce the same quality products of old. Delta may be the most recent example.

Do your own review of the features and opinions of a given tool and then decide what you want to purchase.

I expect most people have a shop with a mix of brands. I have tools with the following brands :
Black and Decker
Bosch
Craftsman (Sears)
Delta
DeWalt
Fein
Grizzly
Hilti
Jet
Makita
Milwaukee
Performax
Porter Cable
Powermatic
Ryobi
Stanley
StockRoomSupply
Teknatool
Veritas

Some of these were inexpensive when I was starting out.

Some I would consider top-of-the-line.

Some I would purchase again.

Some I would not purchase again.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hmmm,
I feel like this question is of little value. You're asking for blanket opinion about entire brands. If that is what your're looking for, it will generally correlate to their price point. If you want to get specific opinions about specific tools, then it is best to simply search the forum for existing threads about the tool in question. If you don't find what you need, feel free to ask--but again, be specific. Even when discussing specific tools, describing your intended use can help to really figure out what is "best".


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

A good example of this. The porter cable low profile ro sander ( and it's dewalt clone) is considered to be one of the best sanders under 250....however porter cable cordless drills are pretty much cheap junk today (just my opinion). 


Another example....dewalt has cordless drills from 79 dollars to 499. Hard to say...dewalt is good or bad.


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## GoNavy429 (Oct 7, 2013)

Well I got a Shopsmith, inherited from my dad http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/ and he had all the attachments, pretty much does it all. Only difference is my dads old machine has a band saw attachment not the router, hence why I got a separate router table. He had it 20+ years and I have had it for 10+ it's still very accurate and going like a champ. I had added a Dewalt slider chop miter saw and a Router table to the mix with a Bosch router. There is not much I can't make with just these three machines, right down to turning legs with the lathe for a table..lol.. If you need to do things fast, Shopsmith's not a good choice because it take a few minutes to reconfigure. I'm retired so I would rather have it all in one machine takes up less space.

edit: Might want to be sitting down when you get to the price page..lol...but packs a lot of punch for a small shop


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

I knew this question would probably draw criticism! I hear what you guys are saying and fully understand. Every company has some good and bad lines of tools. But, if you are less literal and specific, surely there are some generalizations for people like myself that can be used as a starting point for research. The "for the money" question always draws debate, but there are some "Cadillac" brands. Does anyone disagree that Festool is top of the line? True, maybe dewalt makes. Product that is as good as that of Festool but in general you can say Festool is in an elite class. Or, maybe a brand is great but exclusively for huge shops. I am looking for generalizations that are a startin point for research, not someone to tell me that all powermatic is superior to dewalt, but there are some generalizations. Similar to how if you are buying drills, ryobi may have a few good products (especially "for the money") but makita is generally superior. Or, for exaMple while there are many great angle grinders out there, most would agree Fein and Metabo are the elite class leaders. Perhaps the one poster above is correct and all you have to do is look at price, but I don't think that is always correct. Sometimes you be up paying surely for name (while I love them, John Deere comes to mind) thanks for the input...I have found much valuable!


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

I will say it again, but this time more poignantly: You are asking a question that doesn't have an answer and I can't understand the reason for it. What do you hope to do with this information? Is there a point to your request for over generalized information or is this just a, "What is your favorite color?" kind of situation? Clearly you aren't asking this question for the members of the forum to help you making a decision--so what are you doing? What is your motive for this conversation? Questions like, "What model of band saw under $800 have good dust collection with 14 inch or greater reach?" have a very practical purpose and are likely yo help a person who is choosing said tool. Your question has none of the useful qualities for you to gather information, but instead seems lime it was designed to "stir the pot" for your entertainment. 

I don't like to point fingers in this way, but a few of your recent posts have a troll-ish flavor. Beware that this forum is closely monitored by moderators and that behavior is not tolerated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

If I am off base and this comes off as rude, then I apologize; however, we have had our share of trolls drift through here and their posts have a feel that begins distinctly similar to this and others of yours.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

I don't understand what the OP is looking for with this post either. It has already been pointed out that no one brand is all good or bad. Sure Festool makes some good stuff but they also make some overpriced items that aren't any better than some other brands. The only way you can decide on what to buy is to compare the individual item you are looking for, table saw, router, or whatever. 


Earl


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I understand what he's asking......but the answer is pretty difficult. 

We can probably all agree that central machinery from harbor freight isn't as good as dewalt....i'm willing to go out on a limb and say all dewalt is better than all central machinery. 

Now the difficult part is to rank dewalt, makita, delta, and the others in the middle. Its really all opinion here. 


From the middle part....we can all probably agree that festool is better than dewalt, makita and porter cable. 


Your just not going to get a full listing in order of all brands.....


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Frank Clement, Bentel, Fay & Scott, American Wood working machinery co.
Greenlee


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*follow the money*

If you shop by price you an generally expect high cost to be equated with high quality. Unfortunately not always the case, however.

If you sort tables saws by price, Powermatic, Saw Stop, General Industries will be at the top. Of course there are commercial table saws, by Oliver, Felder, Martin and others like SCMI Minmax.
(I have a 12" Powermatic and General Inds. dual drum sander, Minmax 13" jointer planer and 18" bandsaw)

Lower end saws like Dewalt, Rigid, Craftsman, Steel City are similar in power and price, when comparing like models. (I have several Craftsman table saws)

Delta/Rockwell used to have an outstanding reputation, but because of parts availablity issues, they have lost it ...literally.

Laguna is in the same boat.


Baileigh is a "new kid on the block" as far as woodworking and is trying to establish a reputation.

Grizzly is a paradox in that they cover the entire range of prices from $800 to $10,000 and up. Their low end machines are a great buy for the dollar. (I have 5 Grizzlys and haven't got "bit" yet.) 
http://www.grizzly.com/products/category/530020|530002|530000

Some machines have a reputation for being better at certain tasks.

Festools are portable hand held tools not stationary machines, and they are at the top of the food chain, well made and famous for excellent dust collection for on the job or in the shop use.
(I have a Festool 75 track saw and lot of tracks)

Panel saws have come a long way and can be had from $1500 to $22,000 and completely digital. ( I made my own)

A lot of folks have chosen to get "old iron" and restore the machines to like new condition. They usually are huge and heavy, require 3 phase supply, BUT can be had for a song. Factories and school shops are closing all over the country, so the machines come up on EBay or local auctions. 

Used equipment aside, the question is answerable, just Google the type of machine and "shop" the features and prices. You must differentiate between portable and stationary machines for comparisons.
http://www.consumersearch.com/table-saw-reviews/reviews


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

What part about your question can't be answered don't you get? You can keep asking it every different way you can think of and the answer is still going to be the same - it's a fool's game. Scott says it best "love the tool, not the brand". Not sure how many times we can tell you every brand makes both clunkers and great ones. And it's not just a matter of "what" they make, but "when" they made it.


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

Thank you guys! I was starting to think that I was crazy and the only person who understood my question. I fully realize the question is tough. I fully realize there are exceptions. But, as pointed out in excellent detail by the last post, there are some stereotypes and generalizations that can be made. There will be much gray area and much overlap but there is a general curve of quality. I'm not asking anyone to rank DeWalt vs. Makita vs. Porter Cable...I would say all of those are approximately in the same "class." I'm just trying to figure out what is near the top on most lists and what is scraping the bottom.

If you go to an appliance store and ask for the "elite" class they will show you Viking, Thermador, and Wolff. Does anyone really think there is no difference between Festool and Black and Decker? Sure, B&D make some decent products and especially so when you consider the value "for the money." But, I'm pretty certain most everyone here who isn't in denial would gladly take any given tool with Festool written on it as opposed to the same tool with B&D on it. Thus, you can conclude that in general, Festool is a little superior to B&D. I'm just trying to get a starting point of what names generally scream "quality" and what generally says "steer clear!"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on my research and what I've read here I'd say:

Delta has been good, but may have lost an edge
Powermatic is a good brand that can compete with most any
Baleigh is developing a reputation but so far so good
Grizzly makes a wide variety of quality so look at the specific tool more closely
Festool definitely belongs in the elite class for it's forte products

I'll ask specific questions as I start to buy certain items, but those are great starting points for my research. Thanks to those who attempted to answer a tough question.


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

At the risk of starting a forum war, I must say that I really don't understand the bitterness towards my post. If I might be defensive for a second, you are accusing me of "trolling." Let me say clearly that I'm a successful surgeon and make $500/hr so I have much better things to do then try to stir a theoretical pot on a chatroom with people I never have and likely never will meet. The reasons my posts sound that way to you is that I am ignorant (extremely intelligent, but lacking knowledge at this point). I am a guy that makes a lot of money who loves wood working and is trying to learn about things before I buy them so I don't waste my money and have no regrets or need to upgrade as my wood working skills catch up to my shop equipment.

There are some very respected and experienced opinions on here that do NOT think my question is stupid or impossible to answer and as a matter of fact, did a great job in doing so, for which I am indebted.

If you still don't understand my question or believe there is no answer I have an offer for you:

I'll buy a tool of your choosing that says Black and Decker, Ryobi, etc. on it and I'll trade you every day of the week and twice on Sunday for the same tool with Festool, SawStop, or Fein written on it. Any takers? Didn't think so.

Now, if my posts bother you and you think I'm burning away time posting stupid questions then how about ignoring them...I'm certain you have something better to do than spend you time responding to supposedly "trolling".....don't you?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I think the point a lot of us were trying to make....is ask the question....I'm thinking of buying a planer....I have 110v power for it....what should I buy. 


The answer would likely be....buy a dewalt 735x. Top of its class....nothing compares. 


Or ask...I don't yet have a table saw....what do I need vs want. The answer will include a discussion of new vs used.... 110 vs 220.... Sawstop technology.... Cast iron vs granite.....ect...



No offense, but there are quite a few of us on here with advanced degrees...yet we all learn stuff every day from each other. 


Were all glad to provide advise....but the question needs clarification.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Of the home model equipment I have, I have few complaints with Craftsman. I bought a table saw, radial arm saw and jointer in the early 1970's and have only worn out the table saw. Both the radial arm saw and jointer are still going. When working for other shops they were mostly equipped with Powermatic and Delta equipment which I always felt like Powermatic was a little better. In recent years I bought a Delta unisaw to replace the sears table saw that wore out and was very displeased with the quality. It didn't near live up to the ones I had worked with working for someone else. Then I bought a Delta portable planer which at first I spent nearly as much time re-assembling it as running it. It wasn't till I started using threadlock I could get some relief from the repairs. It turns out some of the lost parts are not replaceable because Delta has pretty much quit selling replacement parts for their tools. Another brand not listed is Northfield. Their equipment is expensive but is built much the same as the old equipment was made in the early 1900's. It's still built very solid with cast iron construction. I bought a Northfield shaper in 1987 because I liked the way they an old one was built at a shop I worked at. Except for the magnetic switch on my shaper it is exactly the same machine as the old one built before WWII. Recently I found a bargain on another shaper which I felt like a second machine would be handy so I bought a Grizzly shaper. It turns out it is a very cheaply made machine which is more in line with harbor freight than an industrial machine company. Despite adjusting and tightening on the spindle it still moves laterally and the drive belt is just a single 3/8" belt. I have a bigger belt on the smog pump on my truck.


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

I appreciate those thoughts, Steve. Very useful and informative.

Ryan-I do understand where you are coming from but my question was specficially intended to be vague. The more specific questions will come later as I grow more serious about specific purchases based upon what I have learned through this thread. Woodnthings provided precisely the answer I was looking for so clearly my question was not ridiculous and does as a matter of absolute fact have an answer. The problem is likely that I have very little knowledge at this point and I'm looking for starting points to do my research and learn. My fund of information will grow and my questions will be more precise as that occurs. I wasn't attacking anyone else's advanced degree (or lack thereof) but some of our fellow forum members were a little on the bitter and rude side and felt the need to accuse me of doing this for entertainment--I felt compelled to point out the fact that their notions were ludicrious and absurd to say the least.


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

To clarify one more thought....a lot of what I am seeking right now is the knowledge to ask future questions. Right now everything is flexible to me...I can buy whatever equipment I want, I have the money to buy nice equipment. I haven't run the power to my shop yet so can run 110 or 220 if necessary, I have a garage the size of a small warehouse that I can fully or partially devote to wood working. It's hard to ask specific questions when my options are wide open. Likewise, I understand it is hard to provide specific answers without specific questions, which is why I was seeking generalizations that would serve as a starting point for further research.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

I'd agree with the others that your question is not one that's easy to answer. There are too many dependencies, too many variations within brands. It's almost always going to be a tool-by-tool judgment and it's always going to depend on what you're really trying to do. Fine Furniture? Restoration or Renovation? Construction? Impressing your friends and neighbors? 



I usually prefer the tools and brands that are used in trade schools or high schools. 'though few schools still teach "shop" anymore. High accident insurance costs have closed many in my area. I almost always prefer old tools as well. The ones that are still around tended to be better quality in the first place and the technology really doesn't change all that much. However, tools are not necessarily like good wines. Not all improve with age, nor should they be judged by the label or the price-tag. 

I will say this: If you're a $500/hr surgeon, make dang sure you get some training on whatever tools you end up buying. Expensive tools are just as likely to maim your expensive hands as any cheapo import - especially if you only kinda know what you're doing.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you are in an enviable position*

It sounds like you have a "unlimited" budget and a great place to work! You are also just starting out and the questions will get more specific as you narrow down the types of machine to the task for which they are intended. 
The negative response confusion was part of the "let's cut to the chase" and get it over with approach rather than the "big picture" which you explained in the later post. 
Usually it's "what is the best ....name your machine type here" and so folks want to post about the experience with that brand or a specific model. Usually also we get "just starting out what tools do I need?" Then there are the 14 paragraph posts about each machine type and model etc.

I don't know how you came into woodworking, but as an Industrial Designer, MFA it was part of the training I got in school, which was on top of my own interest since I was 6 years old and "wanted to build stuff". By the time I graduated BFA I was so good at using the shop tools they asked me to teach for 1 year. The class was called Materials and Processes and was a junior requirement. I also instructed with "artsy fartsy" professors who needed a skilled assistant to help keep the young ladies from loosing their fingernails, mostly in the 20" sander and bandsaw. My employment in a Design Studio required some mock up building of prototypes of appliances and vehicles. My "experiment" in custom house design made me acquire some house framing skills to execute my wild ideas. And on it goes after 50 years of "building stuff" from keepsake boxes, to furniture, to welding mobile bases for the heavy machines and even a running vehicle from brake formed sheet metal. Materials and their processes have always been a fascination for me. Sorry for the long personal monologue. 

I would also agree as a guitar player/woodworker that keeping your hands and fingers out of the mechanisms and sharp cutter paths would be paramount in the priority of tool selection. Mandatory safety equipment has come a long way in it's flexibility especially the riving knives which tilt and move with blade height changes. I am still intimidated by the full exposure of a 10" high bandsaw blade running at 3500 ft per minute for resawing thin slabs! Jointers are relatively safe when used with push blocks that grip the work and pass over the cutters. Planers are pretty safe also as they are self feeding. Router tables may look benign, but are response for some pretty horrific injuries posted here. Last but not least, the table saw will continue to be the topic of discussion for hand and finger injuries and amputations, since the physics of the machine aren't fully understood and are not well explained in the manuals. Experience is NOT always the best instructor, but it does come with increased use of the machine. There are times when you must ask yourself...."What can go wrong and then what will happed after that? Should I even be making this cut or operation?" The Saw Stop flesh sensing technology will definitely save some digits, and would be at the top of my wish list for a new table saw. However, kickbacks are still possible and they can really hurt!

I think having a hand surgeon of the forum is a great asset! You never know when you may need a friend who is one... :laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> I don't know how you came into woodworking, but as an Industrial Designer, MFA it was part of the training I got in school, which was on top of my own interest since I was 6 years old and "wanted to build stuff". By the time I graduated BFA I was so good at using the shop tools they asked me to teach for 1 year. The class was called Materials and Processes and was a junior requirement. I also instructed with "artsy fartsy" professors who needed a skilled assistant to help keep the young ladies from loosing their fingernails, mostly in the 20" sander and bandsaw. My employment in a Design Studio required some mock up building of prototypes of appliances and vehicles. My "experiment" in custom house design made me acquire some house framing skills to execute my wild ideas. And on it goes after 50 years of "building stuff" from keepsake boxes, to furniture, to welding mobile bases for the heavy machines and even a running vehicle from brake formed sheet metal. Materials and their processes have always been a fascination for me. Sorry for the long personal monologue.


What's all this for? Your resume gets longer every time you post it.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

















.


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## J.C. (Jan 20, 2012)

For handheld power tools you have the bottom of the barrel junk like B&D, Skil, Ryobi, Harbor Freight, lower lines of Craftsman and other no name brands. Next would be Bosch, Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Porter Cable (they're turning them into a slightly lower line), Ridgid (not their plumbing line). All of them use to make quality stuff but they've all really gone downhill in the last 20 years and IMHO the majority of their stuff is now throw away junk. The high end stuff would be Festool, Fein, Hilti(not quite what they once were), Protool, Mafell.

For stationary tools, at this point, I think you can safely group Powermatic, Sawstop, Delta, Steel City, Grizzly, Jet, etc. all into the same group. Almost all of that junk pretty much comes out of the same factory in Asia somewhere, it's just painted a different color. For the higher end stuff, you'd have to go with Northfield or look at European machines like Felder, Martin, Altendorf, SCMI. I think Martin would be considered the cream of the crop.


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## reynoldston (Sep 13, 2013)

Seeing money is no problem go industrial and have 3 phrase electric run to your shop. Ford or Masseratti? When I worked for Kodak they just bought one brand of hand tool to make it easier to service. As to brand of tools I would say look for a dealer that can give you good service and repairs just like anything you buy. You buy from the big box stores they do no service work and everything is designed for the home owner so buy from a big tool dealer if you want top of the line tools and don't mix brands. So I would say start by looking to see what you have for tool dealer in your area. Don't be bashful when you see the prices.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

what may be the best buy, for anyone, right now, may not be the best buy for everyone. right now.

my first tools purchase was a B&D drill and circular saw ($19 ea), both still running. but i wouldn't buy them today.

with all of us readers, I'll bet there are no two shops the same. each tool/each person - unique needs and applications.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

If money's no object, go buy the time and advice from a professional in your area. Find the best person who already does well what ever you decided that you want to do Cabinetry, Furniture, Carpentry. Ask that person what tool brands and types that person would consider top-of-the-line. Ask that person what tools are really worth the expense. 

Will mention that my stepfather designs and executes work that would make Charles Sumner and Henry Mather Green jealous. He's got 30 years of experience in the field, and he does much of his work with Grizzly Tools.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

SMLWinds said:


> To clarify one more thought....a lot of what I am seeking right now is the knowledge to ask future questions. Right now everything is flexible to me...I can buy whatever equipment I want, I have the money to buy nice equipment. I haven't run the power to my shop yet so can run 110 or 220 if necessary, I have a garage the size of a small warehouse that I can fully or partially devote to wood working. It's hard to ask specific questions when my options are wide open. Likewise, I understand it is hard to provide specific answers without specific questions, which is why I was seeking generalizations that would serve as a starting point for further research.


Shoot if money was no object I would buy all Northfield machinery. It would always do what you wanted it to do and unless you lived a very long time you would never have to repair it. I had a storm destroy my shop one time and drop the roof on my shaper and it didn't hurt it.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I'd suggest focusing more on the actual construction, design, and origin of each major individual tool. In many cases, you'll find the same tool with multiple name plates and color schemes available at a variety of price points. Brand names are nothing more than a marketing tool. 


Ex 1: 















Ex 2:

























Ex 3:
















Ex 4:









Ex.5









Ex 6:


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## Hunter (May 10, 2012)

No offense, but on this forum you aren't a surgeon, you are a woodworker. 

Your question is literally unanswerable, and several people tried to explain that to you. If you want helpful answers we really need more specific questions.

Even your example of trading a Black and Decker for a Festool doesn't hold water. There's probably someone out there that would take that trade.

Hunter


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it's not a black or white answer he wants, it's a discussion*



Hunter said:


> No offense, but on this forum you aren't a surgeon, you are a woodworker.
> 
> *Your question is literally unanswerable, and several people tried to explain that to you. If you want helpful answers we really need more specific questions.*
> Hunter


He was happy with the answers he received. See post 19 and others. If you can't answer the question or partcipate in the discussion then what else have you to offer? 

Saying the "question" can't be answered when if fact it has, offers little. This is also about the philospohy of brands, ....do they hold their value over the entire line up OR are certain brands better at specific type of tools .... and the discussion to follow. Which brands are better for what types of tools......?

The answer about a Dewalt portable planer was exactly the right one in my opinion. 

The Northfields are "king" of the commercial stationary tools, well maybe with Martin and Felder and SCMI thrown in :yes: depending on the type. Holz-her is a well known and excellent panel saw for instance: http://www.holzher.com/seite16.htm We're talkin' over $20,000 in some cases.

If all you have known is Craftsman or Ridgid or Black and Decker, then you don't have a feel for what else is out there. If you can't bring something to the discussion, maybe you should not participate....... JMO.

We are all woodworkers, in various stages of expertise and growth AND we bring our other skills to bear in the woodworking process, from skilled hand surgeons to concrete and masonry, plumbing, chain carvers, accountants, computer programmers, artists, or what ever. That's what allows each project to have it's own flavor and unique look. :yes:


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## spark0506 (Nov 8, 2010)

SMLWinds,

Quick background....I've been trying to build up my shop after I added on space around 3 years ago. Before I added this new space I had a small shop with a few tools in my basement. I'm just a weekend amature so please keep that in mind......

What I have tried to do is buy the best tools that I could afford at the time I needed or wanted them. I had an older Delta 10 inch contractors table saw for at least 10-12 years. It worked Ok but once I upgraded to a Saw Stop I realized what a difference a good cabinet table saw made. I felt the safety feature was worth the cost. I like Powermatic tools regardless of where they're made or assembled. I feed they build good quality tools. I have a Powermatic band saw, drill press, and planer. The planer replaced a DeWalt 735 that also performed well but I wanted to upgrade to a heavier duty one with a spiral cutting head. I have a Kreg router table with a Bosch router. I've picked up a 3.25 hp Triton router for the table because I wanted a little more hp. I like DeWalt tools and have had good luck with them. I've tried to keep all my cordless tools DeWalt so that all the batteries and chargers work for all of them. I have a Delta 46-460 lathe. Its small but has worked well for me so far....I'm still learning how to use it. I replaced an old Craftsman 6 inch jointer with a used Jet 6 inch one. The Jet works fine and does a good job. I feel it was a nice upgrade from my old Craftsman but I kind of have my eye on a jointer with a spiral cutting head instead of 3 straight blades but my slush fund isn't there yet. I bought a Ridgid table top belt/spindle sander for around 200.00. Its worked fine so far but I can see getting something a little better down the road. 

I haven't had a lot of luck with buying used tools. Most of the time they wanted too much money or the tools were beat up and abused. On the other hand I've had no problem selling some of my used tools when I've upgraded. I find it pretty easy to get back around half the cost of new. To me that's not a bad deal. If I want to step up to something better I'm not out all that much.

I haven't been able to justify some of the really high end tools like Festool. Its nice stuff but I'm still learning and for me it would be a bit of an overkill...

Hope this helps a bit.....Good luck....


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

If I was a baller such as the op leads us to belive, I would fill my shop with machines from Martin and Northfield. There is no doubt that they are two of the best machine builders around right now.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*baller?*

I had to look that one up! I was missing the "w" at first, but that wasn't it. :no:

http://www.chatslang.com/meaning/baller


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

Just want to thank those who took my question seriously and took the time to help. The posts of woodnthings, Steve, JC, WarnerConst. etc. were wonderful and exactly what I am looking for. Furthermore, to anyone with a pulse and open eyes, they show that my question is 100% answerable even if difficult and subject to some level of opinion. I have a much better idea of the general hierarchy of some brands and furthermore, I learned about several brands that I've never seen and didn't even know existed. I had never heard of Northfield or several other of the top end brands but now prior to buying equipment will certainly be considering theirs. Thus, it is a matter of fact that my question was answered and the efforts of those who were reasonable are appreciated.

Even a few of you that felt my question didn't have a concrete answer, much of the advice you offered was beneficial as well, so thanks to you guys also! As I said, just throwing out some names that I'd never seen before has directed me to their webpages, videos, and product reviews. Even if you didn't feel there was a great answer in your opinion, I appreciate you approaching it in a professional and friendly manner.

To the agitated few in this post, if you feel this or any other question doesn't have an answer, I have a novel idea for you--don't answer it! You are making a fool of yourself with bitter posts with nothing but negative venting and no useful information. You act like I am the dense one because I "don't get it" when your post about the question not having an answer is surrounded by legitimate and helpful answers. Quite ironic...

On that note, I will gladly continue this conversation with anyone who wants to discuss tool brands, rather than theory of asking questions. I will NOT be responding to any more of the ridiculous, bitter comments so please find something constructive to do with your time. I'm open to any comments present professionally with the intention of being helpful, even if those include comments on the difficulty one may encounter in answering my question. But, if you are frustrated and angry at this thread, remember it is a free country and stop reading it immediately! If, however, anyone wants to really do the Festool for Black and Decker trade, just let me know...I'll do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday!


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

Lastly, thanks for the comments about safety. I get comments about my fingers a lot from people who know I have an interest in woodworking. I have own occupation disability insurance so my income is completely protected but I still value my fingers, like everyone on here does, and since my income is protected, don't think mine are any more or less valuable than anyone else's.

SawStop is coming my way...I will own no other table saw.

I have also looked into some other technologies that are similar. There was one called "whirlwind" which was supposedly coming soon but I haven't heard about in a long time.

If anyone has any comments about safety as it relates to brands of tools I would love to hear them. Obviously some (SawStop, for example) have a huge emphasis on safety. Safety is always a big part of my purchase decisions. I am always looking for better guards, braking mechanisms, safer on/off switches, anti-kickback mechanisms, etc.

Obviously there is no subsitute for a combination of alertness, healthy respect, caution, and experience but I prefer to be backed up with safety mechanisms as an extra precaution.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*bandsaw safety*

Most bandsaw saws take forever to spin to a stop. Some have a foot brake to slow down and stop the momentum of the heavy wheels. There is a "high tech" solution, a motor brake. This 19" Grizzly that I own has one, and I highly recommend it. It's a great saw and the motor brake is the one feature I really wanted, having seen what can happen when a scrap gets into the spinning blade... or even worse and accidental brush with a hand or fingers. A fully exposed 12" blade is scary to me and I want no part of it, and would give it no part of me. :yes:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/19-3-HP-Extreme-Series-Bandsaw-with-Motor-Brake/G0514X2B

BTW thanks for your appreciation above. WE are all just trying to be helpful here and a thank you is most "appreciated". What, no comment re my resume? hah hah.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Saw Stop*

Also keep in mind that tables saws not only cut, they can kick back causing severe injury. A lumber mill operator I know received a spear of wood through his stomach narrowly missing a kidney. I have a bruise or two from a spinning plywood panel that left the rear of the fence, rode up on top of the blade (no guard or splitter on the machine at the time) and came back to "greet" me in the mid section.

There are now very few times I run my saws without the splitters. They are older saws and don't have the new riving knives which rise and fall and tilt with the blade, a great idea. I just ripped a pice of white Oak yesterday and because of the splitter being squeezed by the wood closing on it, it was difficult to push. I stopped the saw, made a wedge to fit the kerf , pounded it in and completed the cut easily. That wood had a slight curve to it after that happened, I knew it would, and it wasn't the first time with white Oak. 

These are the 2 types of kickback I know, "rotational" and "closure" and a splitter or riving knife will help in the prevention of both.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

SMLWinds said:


> Just want to thank those who took my question seriously and took the time to help...


SMLWinds,
I'm glad you got your questions answered. When it comes to researching tools, techniques, and anything else wood related at any skill level, this is the place to come. 

I gave a non-answer early in the thread because your question hadn't yet been clarified enough to really get the information you ended up with. You later gave the crucial information that was needed for the right people to give you the correct answers, namely: 



SMLWinds said:


> I am a guy that makes a lot of money who loves wood working and is trying to learn about things before I buy them so I don't waste my money and have no regrets or need to upgrade as my wood working skills catch up to my shop equipment.


If the initial post had given the information that you were looking to outfit a shop from scratch and wanted to buy tools only once (price not really an issue), we'd all have gotten to where we did without any heartache. 

The points I wish to make are these:

This is, on the whole, a pretty amicable community of people interested in woodworking who have a genuine interest in passing on a love for woodworking and support others doing the same.
This is also the internet, and with that come the problems of the internet (spam, trolls {more on that later}, etc.)
The one thing about WWT that seems to set it apart from many/most internet groups is the way that we treat one another. There are countless examples that can be seen, but by and large the members here use the same courtesy that decent human beings do in their interactions in person. Just because this is the internet, we can all still be polite, courteous, and work towards the betterment of the forum.

My reason for saying that "your posts had a troll-ish flavor" was simply because the seemed to be catastrophically obtuse (not out of line, just asking for a huge amount of information) in their scope and didn't have a stated purpose like the questions that we are accustomed to. Once you gave the extra clarifying info in posts 15 &16, life was good. From that point, I am not sure where any confusion came from. 

As for some pointers to get the info you're looking for, I have just this: Ask questions as clearly and directly as possible. If your question can be further clarified with photos or a verbal description, give that as well. We are made up of professionals, kids in high school shop classes, and self-taught amateurs, so you'll get information from all ends of the spectrum. 

Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:


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## reynoldston (Sep 13, 2013)

Don't know if this is helpful as to one brand of tool. I worked for Kodak for 19 years in the mechanic trade. Kodak was so large at the time they had there own tool repair shop and did buy large number of electric hand tools. Now as far as electric hand tools go they were used and missed used by many different people. When Kodak bought new electric hand tools it was always Milwaukee tools. I asked the tool repair shop why and they told me because Milwaukee tools were reparable, better made, and easy to get parts for.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*another way to look at this issue ....*

If this were a firearms forum and someone said, "I know enough about them to distinguish between a shot gun, rifle and muzzle loader, but what are the better brands?" .... it's the same type of question in my opinion. Well, let see "I've heard of Ruger, Remington, Winchester, Savage and maybe Benelli. etc. Here's a rather complete list of the manufacturers, it's volumes long: http://pc.gunbroker.com/Manufacturers Weatherby was at the top of quality for a long time and still makes some great guns. Sako is Finnish and extremely well regarded. There are other brands that you have probably never heard about UNLESS you specialized in a particular type of shooting like sporting clays, skeet, long range target, benchrest, small bore, etc.

What about motorcyles? Everyone has heard of Harley Davidson, Honda, Yamaha, Indians, etc. Have you heard of Moto Guzzi? Husqvarna? Ariel? maybe not, but they are among the best of specific types of bikes. Just to keep track and differentiate between the all models of Harley requires a specifc knowledge of the major types..... dressers, softails, cruisers, CPO bikes etc. 

So, the big picture question "What are the best brands of woodworking tools?" is a topic of discussion everyone will benefit from and broaden their knowledge of the brands within woodworking machines. If you don't ask the question, you won't get the knowledge, even IF you can't afford to buy one of the higher end tools. I used to memorize the tool section of each new Sears catalog when I was a teenager and could quote the specs on most woodworking tools, so when I got $100.00 for 8th grade graduation, I went right to the Sears store and bought a Craftsman 100 table saw and stand in 1956. I used it for 45 years and now own much better saws. Each hobby or profession is a growth experience.

Similarly, I memorized the trajectory charts for the centerfire rifle calibers out to 300 yards and knew which were the flattest and fastest. So when I received some high school graduation money, I took a taxi into downtown Chicago, gave the driver instructions to wait outside and purchased an new Sako Heavy Barrel in .243 Win. The cab ride was about 1/4 the cost of the rifle and scope. It is still one of the best rifles out there and has put 2 shots through the same hole at 100 yds with a Weaver 10X fine plex scope. Knowledge is power. :yes:


BTW, my first Harley was a Sportster, purchased on the advice of a friend who owned one. I hated it, traded it in for a Dyna Glide and loved it. Had I only known ......:blink:


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## Hunter (May 10, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> He was happy with the answers he received. See post 19 and others. If you can't answer the question or partcipate in the discussion then what else have you to offer?
> 
> Saying the "question" can't be answered when if fact it has, offers little. This is also about the philospohy of brands, ....do they hold their value over the entire line up OR are certain brands better at specific type of tools .... and the discussion to follow. Which brands are better for what types of tools......?


You are right and I apologize to you, the OP and everyone else.

I actually intended to convey that this question is so vague that we (or anyone) cannot begin to do it justice. I am glad that the OP got the information that he was looking for. I thought that we could have been more help with a narrower question.

I think that if we at least tackled it one type of tool at a time we could have a discussion that would be more helpful to the OP and others.

Once again I was out of line and should have thought through my ideas better before contributing.

Hunter


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

Guys-I'm sure glad there is finally peace on this thread! I never intended to start a forum war!

I have gotten my answers for now to start my ground level research, but there is much, much more to learn. I will certainly be back asking specific questions about each product I plan to purchase. If you look back through my posts, you'll see a thread about every major piece of equipment I've bought.

From a very novice standpoint, it is sometimes hard to express how basic the knowledge I need is to some of you who think it is common knowledge. From my daily world, think of it as the idiot doctor who can't stop using the big medical terms in order to explain to you what is wrong and what the options are. The roles are reversed here.

I am embarrassed to admit at this point that when I first started buying tools, I thought Lowes and Home Depot had everything available. I had never heard of a single brand that was not carried by those 2 stores, aside from SawStop which I learned about during my medical training. It was on this forum that I first learned the name "Festool." Prior to buying a DeWalt miter saw (which is a good saw) I started researching Festool when one of you threw out the name and ended up purchasing Kapex instead. It was on the sister page DIY chatroom when I was looking for an angle grinder that I first learned about Metabo and Fein--the only brands I knew were in Lowes. If you don't work and live in this realm, you don't even know how to find candidates for purchase. If you google the world's best X, Y, or Z you will likely not find the truly best names. I have tried that and I end up with Dewalt, Makita, Ridgid, etc. Unless you have a name to start your search, it is hard to find the top companies.

So, while much of this information is useless to those of you who are more informed, the most basic generalizations are a good starting point for someone like myself!

Thanks--the help is appreciated!


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

Woodnthings-Thanks for the tip on the Grizzly bandsaw. I really like the electric brakes on saws. I feel like after you hit the "off" switch that many of us let our alertness down a bit while blade is still cranking at a dangerour pace. I think people often stay focused while cutting, but then look at the wood, cut quality, reach to grab the cut piece of wood, or look away from the saw before the blade spins to a stop.

My project for this summer was building a very large dock on the river at my house. I needed a circular saw. I used a few from friends but eventually got a Makita magnesium saw mainly because of it's mechanical brake which slows the blade quickly after release of the trigger.

While not fool proof, it is yet another small feature which could save you at some point. 

Band saws do scare me. I liked this technology called "whirlwind" I saw a couple years ago but have not seen it implemented. I also hear that SawStop has the technology to use on a bandsaw. However, the word on the street in the medical world is that the owner (who I understand is an attorney) doesn't want to release it until laws are passed demanding that his technology be used. Lawyers!!!! (forgive me for anyone who went to law school....I have 2 siblings who are attorneys so I'm not too hateful!)

When it come time to find a bandsaw for my shop I'll ask some specific questions. Thanks for the tip on the Grizzly!


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## J.C. (Jan 20, 2012)

I think I should clarify my previous post a little. What I posted is how I view the brands as they stand today. If you want to start to buy old used equipment, the list would be different and you'd have far more choices in what I would consider great brands.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

The best band saws ever made are from Tannewitz. Nothing quite like standing in front of a 7.5hp GH, shoving anything you can find right through it. 

I like my 1922 Oliver #16 36" saw, but I would dump it in a minute if I could get my hands on a GH. 

I had a jointer that most would kill for, a 16" fay & egan, that I sold off to get my dream jointer, a late 1880's 20" Clement and a 12' long pattern makers lathe. I am a machine junkie.


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## Digicarver (Oct 17, 2013)

Are you interested in computer programmable power tools, like a laser cutter or a CNC router?


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