# Forget the Dust Deputy



## Kenbo

A little while ago, I asked the question about the Dust Deputy cyclone and whether or not it would help to keep my filter in my shop vac cleaner. A local tool supplier had it on sale for $89 for the whole kit, and $45 for just the cyclone section. No matter how much I tried, I just couldn't justify purchasing the cyclone until I tried some other methods first.
I spent a good part of today constructing a seperator complete with a Thien baffle to help with the dust. Using the vague pictorial on Paul Thien's site, I started in.
I wanted the collector to fit a 5 gallon plastic pail. Space is at a premium in my shop and I needed something that could sit behind a tool.


Measuring the top of the 5 gallon pail, I cut some plywood into 12 1/2" squares and marked the center point on each.









Using one of my band saws, I rough cut the first circle to fit the top of the pail. I know that some of you are pretty disappointed that I would use a band saw instead of the ever popular scroll saw that I seem to favour. I was giving my scroll saw a rest. :laughing:









After sanding up to the line and test fitting, I measured the interior dimension of the bucket and set up the router table to cut the rabbet required to have the "lid" sit tightly inside of the pail. A test fitting proved to be perfect the first try. I guess my measuring skills are improving.









From this point, I needed to mark and cut the holes that would hold my 90 degree bend and my shop vac attachments. So as to not disappoint the members of WWT, I used my scroll saw for this action.









I then test fit the 90 degree bend in the hole to the outside of the lid. The hole required a little bit of sanding with the oscillating sander, but in the end, I got a nice tight fit.













to be continued..................


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## Kenbo

At this stage in the process, it was time for me to add the vacuum attachments that would accept the hoses from my shop vac. Using some 1/2", #8 screws and some #10 flat washers, I measured, marked and secured both pieces.









I then needed to make the baffle. I measured how far down the pail the 90 degree bend would extend and took measurements of the interior of the pail. Following the same steps as I did with the lid (minus the rabbet cut) I made the piece that would become the baffle and test fitted. I then marked and cut the openings that would allow the debris to fall into the bucket. Initially, I cut the opening at 1/2" in from the edge of the circle leaving 120 degrees uncut. After testing, I found that I needed to increase this measurement to 3/4", still leaving the 120 degrees uncut.









Using 1/2" dowels and a little bit of electrical tape, I dry fit the entire assembly together. I used the electrical tape just to get a good friction fit of the pieces for testing.









I then took my shop vac out of its sound proofed cabinet and removed the extremely clogged filter.









I then banged the filter out on the floor of my shop, getting almost all of the dust out of the filter. I then dumped the entire contents of my shop vac out on the floor. I figured the best way to test my seperator and baffle was to suck up the same material that had clogged my filter in the first place.


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## Kenbo

So here sits my 5 gallon seperator, tucked neatly behind one of my band saws. The one hose attaches to the 2 1/2" vacuum conduit that I have installed around the perimeter of my shop and the other end goes into a sound insulated cabinet and attaches to my shop vac.










My initial testing proved that I needed to increase the size of the opening in the baffle. Once this was done, this is the result. After sucking up the entire mess that I dumped onto the floor, including all of the wood flour that had clogged my filter in the first place, this is what actually got into my shop vac.









And this is what the filter looked like after cleaning up the mess on the floor.









This was an extreme condition test. I would never be sucking up this amount of dust at one time. In fact, I was trying to get the system to fail and clog. I was very pleased with the results. I cleaned out the filter again and dumped out the shop vac and just used it normally throughout the afternoon. There was no dust in the shop vac at all and the filter remained clean. Full suction with no loss of power at all. The lid on the 5 gallon seperator fits so nicely that when the shop vac is running, I can pick up the seperator by the hose without the lid coming off the bucket. 
All in all, I am very pleased with the results of this seperator and I will not be purchasing the Dust Deputy.
It's a no brainer...........$89 + tax for the Dust Deputy, or $10 + tax for the vacuum attachments and a 90 degree abs fitting. :huh:
Move over Dust Deputy, there's a new sherrif in town and his name is Kenbo. :thumbsup:


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## JimRich

oh the anticipation! 

edit: he beat me to it  and it was awesome! I use a shopvac too... I just found my next shop project! WOOT!


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## jstange2

Kenbo said:


> Move over Dust Deputy, there's a new sherrif in town and his name is Kenbo. :thumbsup:


Bah ha ha ha ha!!! That is great!!! 

Good to see these results.


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## dbhost

Kenbo, 

That is a good build, but obviously you didn't read the incredibly well written "Here's The Plans" thread. (Not that I am biased or anything...)


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## Gene Howe

Great tutorial, Ken. Excellent example of the Thein.


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## firemedic

Looks good Kenbo... I built a lid like that for a 30 can before I got the DC... Makes ya wonder why the don't design shop vacs with a separator / baffle to start with...

~tom


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## Conor D

That's a great job, well done! I'm going to make one for my shop vac now! Can I ask you how you soundproofed your cabinet for the vac? A set up like this would be a great help to me.


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## Kenbo

dbhost said:


> Kenbo,
> 
> That is a good build, but obviously you didn't read the incredibly well written "Here's The Plans" thread. (Not that I am biased or anything...)


 
Actually, I started reading your post and just assumed that it was for the garbage can or drum baffle. I guess what I was looking for was something that was more user specific to me and my measurements. However, the photos on Paul Thein's site served me well to get mine made. :laughing:



> Can I ask you how you soundproofed your cabinet for the vac?


The cabinet that the shop vac is in, is actually an old bathroom vanity cupboard. I installed a 2X4 frame on the inside with 16" centers. I insulated the entire cupboard on all sides, top and bottom with Roxul safe and sound insulation. For the door opening, I constructed a removable frame with 2X4 and sandwiched insulation between peg board. It is very effective in reducing the shop vac scream.


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## Conor D

Thanks very much for the info kenbo. My vac was one of my best buys but the noise can get irritating at times.I'm in the middle of planning a couple of roiling carts so I must try and incorporate this feature into one of them. Thanks again!


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## RetiredLE

Your project makes me want to continue with my five gallon dust separator. 

Which hose goes to the vacuum, the center one?


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## jstange2

I believe the middle is the suction and the right is the feed from the tool.


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## Kenbo

Yes, the center hose goes to the shop vac. The outer hose is where the dust is brought into the pail. Give it a try, it was completely worth the effort it took to make this. :thumbsup::thumbsup: 
If you have any questions about it, or need some help on how to make one or advice on how to go about it, feel free to PM me or post on this thread. I'd be glad to help you out.


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## RetiredLE

I had been working on a five gallon unit very similar to yours. I had forgotten about it and it has been sitting in the corner collecting dust (passively versus actively) until I read your post. Instead of plywood I used another lid for the baffle.

Anyway, I am going to hook it up and see how it does. Thanks for jogging my memory!


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## Kenbo

Your baffle looks good, however, it doesn't appear to have enough cut away on the bottom lid. I believe that the baffle should have 240 degrees cut away, leaving 120 degress the original diameter. It looks like you have that reversed.


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## RetiredLE

You have a good eye. I thought I would try it this way first and see how it works out. Any idea why 120 is optimum?


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## Kenbo

I'm not really sure why the 120 is the number. I would think that it's only purpose is to give the material a smaller ramp to ride on before it start to "cyclone" down the pail. If the opening is too small, it may not allow the dust to drop down below the baffle.
Let me know how your design works. I'd be interested to see the results.


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## klr650

Ken, what happens when the collector fills up? My first inclination is to think that the rest of the stuff goes to the shop vac, but I'm wondering if what really happens is that suction drops to zero and the whole unit stops working. Any idea what happens when it fills?


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## RetiredLE

Kenbo said:


> I'm not really sure why the 120 is the number. I would think that it's only purpose is to give the material a smaller ramp to ride on before it start to "cyclone" down the pail. If the opening is too small, it may not allow the dust to drop down below the baffle.
> Let me know how your design works. I'd be interested to see the results.


I was taking the opposite tack; a smaller opening would limit the ability of the material from being sucked back up by the vacuum. Maybe there is a happy medium in there I dunno. I did try my unit out last night for a brief period using my 12 inch disc sander. After sanding several small items, I checked the bottom of the bucket and there was material in there. I have cleaned the filter in the vacuum and will see how it looks after some more sanding.


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## RetiredLE

Update: I just returned from the shop after vacuuming a substantial amount of sawdust from in and around my bandsaw and shop floor. I checked the filter in the vacuum cleaner afterward and it has a light coating of dust on it. 

I think most of that might be from the sawdust that was left in the bottom of the vacuum cleaner after I emptied it out last night. 

The majority of the material I vacuumed this morning ended up in the bottom of the five gallon bucket. At this point I am unsure whether it would be beneficial to remove more material from the baffle or not....

I also noted that the suction coming from the vacuum cleaner was strong enough to snap the lid on my bucket down tight. I had left the lid just sitting on the bucket because those particular buckets have a pretty tight lid and it is a bear to remove them once they are snapped down.

On top of that, the bucket fell over onto it's side twice while I was vacuuming and I thought at the time 'there goes my experiment'. I figured the material had been sucked up the side and into the intake of the vacuum cleaner hose but it didn't happen.


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## Kenbo

Well, here we are, at the 2 month mark of using this 5 gallon seperator and I decided to check today and see what my filter looked like. This is the amount of dust that I dumped out of the 5 gallon pail.












As you can see, the filter has next to no dust in it and more importantly, there is very little wood flour.










This is what the shop vac had in it after 2 months of use.










And there was so little dust in the filter, that a quick blast with the air hose cleaned the filter like new.










Prior to constructing the baffle and the seperator, I was cleaning the filter every week. The wood flour that would be caked in the filter was unreal, as you can see by the earlier photos in this thread. As far as I'm concerned, this was a complete success of a project and if you haven't made one yet, what are you waiting for?


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## rocklobster

Kenbo said:


> This is the amount of dust that I dumped out of the 5 gallon pail.
> View attachment 27395
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That looks just like what I had for breakfast this morning.
> 
> Now that's how to get the most out of a shop-vac. Nice write up, and thanks for updating. I missed it the first time around.
> 
> Rob


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## tcleve4911

I've decided to optimize my shop vac with the cyclone baffle.

I'm going by Kenbo's tutorial ...thank you, sir....

Quick question....Is the baffle location/height in the 5gal pail critical or do I just need to clear the elbows?

Thanks


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## Kenbo

tcleve4911 said:


> I've decided to optimize my shop vac with the cyclone baffle.
> 
> I'm going by Kenbo's tutorial ...thank you, sir....
> 
> Quick question....Is the baffle location/height in the 5gal pail critical or do I just need to clear the elbows?
> 
> Thanks


I don't think that it is crucial and I gauged mine to just clear the elbows and it works great. You have to remember, that the lower the baffle, the less space for the "cyclone" action. Keep the baffle as tight to the elbow as possible.
Good luck on the build and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.


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## Chaincarver Steve

Thank you for sharing this information. I hope to construct my own pretty soon. Dust collection is a bad problem in my shop. Everything gets a coating of dust whenever I'm working out there, including my lungs.

Would you mind giving me some tips on how you quieted the noise of your shop vac? Those things are so darned loud that I hate running mine later in the evening for fear of irritating neighbors, who must think I run a leaf blower in the garage. You said you have a soundproof (or at least sound dampening) enclosure for yours. I'd like to go that route.

Any tips, photos and/or advise would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much.


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## Kenbo

Chaincarver Steve said:


> Thank you for sharing this information. I hope to construct my own pretty soon. Dust collection is a bad problem in my shop. Everything gets a coating of dust whenever I'm working out there, including my lungs.
> 
> Would you mind giving me some tips on how you quieted the noise of your shop vac? Those things are so darned loud that I hate running mine later in the evening for fear of irritating neighbors, who must think I run a leaf blower in the garage. You said you have a soundproof (or at least sound dampening) enclosure for yours. I'd like to go that route.
> 
> Any tips, photos and/or advise would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much.


 
I'd be more than happy to post a few photos for you, but unfortunately, it will have to wait until tomorrow. I hope that's okay for you.


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## Chaincarver Steve

Few


Kenbo said:


> I'd be more than happy to post a few photos for you, but unfortunately, it will have to wait until tomorrow. I hope that's okay for you.


Thank you and no hurry. Post at your own leisure. It would be at least a few weeks before I'd even start gathering parts to install dust collection. But I need to at least start planning.

Thank you.


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## Kenbo

Seeing that you asked so nicely Steve, here's the pictures. The cabinet is nothing more than an old bathroom vanity that a coworker was trashing.









With the doors open, you can see that there is a layer of Roxul Safe and Sound insulation that encases the entire interior of the cupboard. It is held in place by 1/8" peg board.









The front panel is a removable 2X4 frame that has the insulation in it, sandwiched in by peg board.









Here, you can see the hose going out the side of the cabinet and into my 5 gallon seperator.









And in case you were wondering how you turn the vacuum on, I cut a switch into the power cord of the shop vac and mounted it to the wall. This way, all I have to do is reach over and flick the switch to turn the shop vac on.









The cupboard, insulated with Roxul make a huge difference and you can use the shop vac without the annoying scream. You can actually carry a conversation with the vacuum on and not have to yell. The peg board serves to allow ventalation for the shop vac. I have had this set up for about 3 years now, with no problems what so ever.


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## Chaincarver Steve

Excellent. Thank for for your time and effort. I will definitely use what you've shown me. Thank you very much.


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## mikeintexas

Kenbo,

Now that you've posted pics so I can see better, I wanted to ask you if you have any venitlation problems with the Shopvac all closed in like that? I'd imagine the answer is "NO" since you've been running it like that for a long time. The air needs to come out of the vacuum so it can draw in more air through the hose. I don't see any way for the air to escape your soundproof box. Obviously, it's not an airtight box, but it's not exactly open, either. Just curious. My shopvac is smaller than yours but sounds like a jet engine. It's almost as loud as my HF DC, no kidding. I thought about building a box for it, but decided I needed the vac out for other things too (We have a toddler at home...nuff' said). You just cannot vacuum up 1/2 a box of cheerios and a quart of milk with the house vacuum, you know? :shutup:

Nice pics and setup, BTW! I'll have to wait a week or so for my 20-gallon metal garbage can to get here. Hope to have my separator done by the time my new TS arrives (for the second time). Thanks for sharing your excellent pics and experience with us.


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## Kenbo

The cabinet is not air tight for starters. If you look at the bottom of the cabinet when the 2X4 panel is in place, there is about a 1" gap in the bottom to allow some air flow. As well, all of the sound dampening panels are made from peg board to allow for air movement as well. Remember, this is not a sound proof booth, it is just something to dampen the sound. I'm going to have to take a decibel reader out to the shop and run the vac with and without the cupboard and see what the difference is. In answer to you comment though, I have not issues with air flow or ventilation at all.
:thumbsup:


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## mikeintexas

Good info. Thanks, Kenbo. You've got a great setup and we all benefit from you sharing the details. Thanks!


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## tvman44

Ken I have 2 questions:
1. How much did you finally cut off the 240 degrees cut away, is it 3/4" or more.

2. How far down does the straight pipe to the shop vac stick below the lid? I had read it should be 1/2 the diameter of the pipe and I built mine that way but I am not satisfied with the results. Too much getting into the DC bag, I am fixing to shorten that pipe.


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## Kenbo

firstly, I found that for my application, 3/4" was plenty and that was all that I cut away. Secondly, the center pipe that goes to the shop vac is flush with the top of the lid. Mine does not protrude at all through the lid. The shop vac attachment that is screwed to the lid is all there is and it doesn't stick out at all at the bottom. If this doesn't help you, feel free to ask some more questions.


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## BassBlaster

Kenbo, nice job on the seperator!! I noticed your elbow is the wrong one and could be the reason you are getting the little bit of wood flour into your filter. Dosnt look like your getting enough in there for it to be a problem though.

Heres mine...

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/thien-cyclone-22851/

You can see in the first pic, the 90* street elbow allows the material to come out a little bit closer to the baffle and it drops into the can before it ever really has time to become airbourne.


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## SteveEl

My winter project has been installation of all new gas and HVAC throughout the house. As part of that I read up a teensy bit (enough to be dangerous really) on air flow in ductwork. But now I'm thinking about my shop again and returned to this excellent thread. Here is some speculation - a rank stinking just enough to be dangerous W.A.G, to be honest - about some of the questions ya'll have been mulling over.

I can't think of any reason to have the baffle any lower than what Kenbo did... just enough to clear the 90. There will be a bit of an air current ripple at the lip of that 90... the lower the baffle is, the greater the disturbance. Rough air = bad, I'm thinking. Then think of a whole bunch of arrows showing airflow into the sucking pipe in the lid. Size of arrows represents strength of that current. The lower the baffle, the smaller each individual arrow. In particular, as the air swirls around and runs into the back side of the 90, it will set up some sort of back pressure thing. I'm guessing part of the magic is keeping that back pressure thing, wave, whatever... sort of sharply defined.

So the gunk swirls along the edge of the plastic by centrifugal force, on a nice smooth set of air currents.... gradually some of the little arrows pull air up towards the top and stuff slows down, but airflow still swirls around the sides. The denser stuff will start to slow and fall out first, but just guessing, probably not until the start of that 120. The fines, on the other hand will keep going until they hit that back pressure thing. The sharper and smoother that interface is, the more likely they are to drop into the bucket from gravity. So turbulence is bad. (Use a smooth walled bucket, not a beat up one?) 

Anyone have more insight on whether the center pipe should be flush with the inside of the lid, or stick down a bit? My instinct is flush would help by reducing turbulence.

This project is high on my list after the mech inspector signs off and the HVAC project is all cleared up.


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## vhuffines

Great bunch of infro. Thank you so much for posting. Like you space is very limited for me. I am going to try making a set up like this in my assembly table where I also do all sorts of sanding stuff. If it works I will post.
Vernon


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## Phaedrus

*5 Gallon Thien Baffle Separator*

So I had a Dust Deputy in my Amazon shopping cart. It was $40 plus s&h. Then I started to think about it some more. I'd need a hose. I'd need a bucket. I'd need a lid. I'd probably need some wheels or a way to mount it to the vac. By the time I get these items taken care of, I am in the $90 range that the Dust Deputy kit is priced at. With my $25 Craig's List shop vac, that seemed excessive. I took another look at the Thien Baffle threads and decided, "Meh, what's the worst that could happen." 

I got a heavily branded 5 gallon pail from my local Do It Best hardware store, 2 ABS 2" 45 degree street elbows, an ABS F/F 2" coupler, some GOOP brand all plastic plumbing sealant/adhesive, a bucket lid, some 3/8" carriage bolts, fender washers, nuts, a set of four small casters, and a Shop Vac dry pickup kit (hose, extensions, and floor tool). Just a 2 1/2" hose would have been great, but all that they had in town was the kit, though it was only a little more than just the hose by itself. 

I began by glueing the two elbows together to make a longer, sweeping 90. 








I used some thin cardboard to design a template for the hole since the bend would be coming through the material somewhat irregularly. I then cut some 1/8" tempered hardboard into an 11" (ish) circle with a jigsaw. I traced my hole template onto the hard board and then cut out both the inlet and outlet holes. I then traced these holes onto the lid that I had purchased and cut them out of the plastic lid to match, also with the jig saw. I lined these up and glued them with the Goop adhesive. While this was clamped up, I cut out another 11" circle from my scrap 1/8" hardboard. I sanded 1/3 of the outside edge of this circle to fit snugly against the pail. I then glued this back down onto the hardboard and traced out the 240 degree section that I would be trimming. I chose to use the 3/4" cut that Kenbo did. He tends to be right. Both pieces dried over night. {End Day 1}

{Begin Day 2}
I unclamped everything. Next, I laid the lower baffle on top of the lid (both face down) and lined up their centers. I clamped it in place and then drilled the holes for the bolts. I chose to have the bolts 3 1/2" from the center of the circle so that they would be mostly out of the way of the air and debris. I then secured the carriage bolts to the lid with a fender washer and nut on each. I placed a nut on each bolt and spun it up until each was even at 2 3/4" from the lid bottom. This is the height that the baffle is at now. A fender washer, the baffel, another fender washer, and another nut all were secured in place, in that order. As far as I can tell, my seperator will have a shorter top section than any that I have seen on the internet so far. In the event that this is a bad thing, I will be leaving the extra length on my carriage bolts until this baffle height has proven to be effective. I am hoping to maximize the dust capacity in the bottom of the bucket by making the top section as compact as is possible. I then glued the 2" F/F coupler to the center (shop vac hose fits snugly into this). With my hose kit, they inclueded two different styles of hose end. I was able to trim the unused hose connector and glue it to the female elbow to make a secure fitting for the shop vac hose. This was unexpected, but ended up working out quite well. I used the Goop plumbing plastic adhesive for both of these operations. I placed the elbow into the hole that I had cut for it. I used my convex wood rasp/file (strangely proving to be a very useful, cheap tool) to shape the edges of the cutout to accomodate the complex shape of the tubing. Once this was fitted to my satisfaction, I sealed in place with some black automotive silicone. I've come to the conclusion that this stuff will never look as neat as I would like :thumbdown:.

































































I had considered building a platform for the pail to sit on, but instead I just drilled holes and pop-riveted the casters to the bottom. I don't know if the rivets sticking through the bottom of the pail will cause problems for the separator or not. If so, buckets are cheap and I can just set a fresh bucket inside of the wheeled bucket. I sealed the rivets from the inside with clear silicone sealant.

















{End Day 2}
Everything is drying now. Stay tuned for a test in a day or two.


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## Chaincarver Steve

Hey man, it's looking great so far.


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## Kenbo

Looking good.


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## Phaedrus

So far so good with the dust separator. I have dumped it twice and the vac has been empty. I have actually moved the baffle UP so that it touches the elbow to increase rigidity. I will test further, but as of now I am happy. I do need to devise a way to "dock" it to my vac so that it doesn't tip over.


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## raykul

Hell everyone, I realize this has nothing to do with wood working but i thought maybe someone might like the easy version of a Thien Seperator. It saves alot of shop vac filters on a bead blast cabinet (glass beads)

Parts: 2. buckets
1. 3' piece of 1/4''allthread rod 
12. 1/4'' nuts 
1. 1 1/4 90
1. 3 1/2'' piece of 1 1/4 pipe 
1. small screw (to secure the 90 to the baffle or lid)
A dremmel tool and a cutting wheel for cutting the baffle (I used the bottom of another 5 gall bucket)(if you shift the baffle to one side of the lid and drill the 3 holes in both it leaves a gap about 3/4 of the way around the bucket)
I also cut the holes with a dremmel and cleaned them up with a small drum attachment

It took me less than 1hr 1/2 to make after i figured everything out

Have fun making one! Thanks Ray


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## raykul

Sorry, my bad that was supposed to start with "Hello" my bad for not proof reading


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## raykul

One more thing..slide the end of the factory tube that came on the shop vac hose for attaching extensions/tools into a piece of 1 1/4 pvc pipe..mark where it meets the pipe. simply cut 2'' below the mark. it will make connecting and emptying the bucket a breeze. No rubber boot and no duct tape! lol :icon_smile:


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## Tcarswell

ThAT is interesting I'm gonna try it for myself


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## Boxedin

What you have made is essentially a drop box, not a filter - unless you take into account the filter in the shop vac. The course material is ending up in the bucket, but the critical fines go into your shop vac cleaner. A cyclone would have added to the material in the bottom of your bucket, but even then it's not all that simple. If one does a Google and checks out some of the cyclones that have been designed by engineers and the principles behind their designs then one suddenly grasps that building a cyclone is not all that simple, if one wants to have an effective cyclone. I'm currently building a small cyclone based upon what I've found online. I'd like to be able to use acrylic or Lexan for the see-through effect, but that's not going to happen. The reasons being: 1. cost, 2. availability of 8" tubing, 3. not knowing of an easy way to make a mold for the cyclone, and 4. lack of an oven large enough to heat the flat stock in order to be able to bend it. The oven issue can be solved by sweet talking a pizza shop into letting me heat the material "after hours" and forming the cylinder on location. So, I've opted for the easy way out. I went to the nearest supplier, HD, and bought a 5' section of AC, round, galvanized ducting - less than $5. 

With the drop box it would be advisable to vent the shop vac to the outside unless it has a really fine filter. Keep in mind, it's not the big stuff that you see in the bucket that does the harm to your lungs. It is the really fine dust that you don't see that does the major damage. Therein lies the rub...which leads us to another solution, of sorts - remove your shop vac filter and vent the discharged air to the outside. If you have an efficiently designed cyclone there should be nothing but a small amount of very fine dust which will be barely noticeable


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## Sarge240

I know this is old,but I have a general question and hope someone can advise. 

I have a new ridgid shop vacuum and added a cyclone separator. Each hose is attached and secured with duct tape and hose clamps. The lid to the bucket is secured tightly and has an inner rubber ring preventing leaking. I also have the cyclone tightly secured to the lid. 

All of a sudden the cyclone no longer does the swirl effect and a large amount of dust and particles are in my vac and clogging the filter. 

I have checked, retightened, swapped buckets,swapped lids, re-taped the hose connections, and cleaned everything. I even lightly sanded the hose connection ports for a friction snug fit. Nothing seems to fix the problem . 

I am unsure what to do. 

I read about removing the vac filter altogether and venting the discharges air out. I considered attaching a vent hose from the discharge port on the vacuum and connecting it to a discharged air bucket with some water in the bottom to collect the fine particles. Is this a tried method by anyone?

I have a significant amount of dust in my shop daily, and I am finding surfaces with MDF and wood dust that was not there before. 

My 5 year old and 10 year old sons come in the shop often to help out and I really don't want them breathing it in.

Please advise!!! Any suggestion? All advice or ideas are greatly appreciated.


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## Chaincarver Steve

Are the hoses connected to the proper port of the cyclone? Perhaps the vacuum doesn't have enough suction? Partially clogged hose? Split/hole in a hose?

I'm probably way off base but that's all I Can come up with.


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## Sarge240

All connections are correctly fitted following the booklet provides by Oneida. 

A hose split may cause it if it is between the vac and the cyclone, but I swapped hoses same result


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## Sarge240

Also: I cleaned and inspected each hose. No suction loss from the main hose.i connected it to my router table, trimmed some MDF and checked the bucket, it's half in the bucket the other half in the vacuum. I don't wanna curse bit I can't think of a better term than WTF!!??


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## Jangsterish

*A little late to the game...*

Thank you for posting this tutorial. 

I too was looking at purchasing a dust deputy, but had a hard time justifying $50+ for it. 

I followed the design as best as I could, with very positive results!


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## tvman44

They work great don't they, the Thien style separator that is. :thumbsup:


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## EDF

Half of a 5 gal bucket would fill up pretty quickly with a table saw or router, I ordered a 16 gallon steel drum with quick release lid . It is 24" tall and I didn't install a baffle. The only dust that reaches the vacuum is some of the fine sanding dust


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## Willy Mac

Kenbo said:


> A little while ago, I asked the question about the Dust Deputy cyclone and whether or not it would help to keep my filter in my shop vac cleaner. A local tool supplier had it on sale for $89 for the whole kit, and $45 for just the cyclone section. No matter how much I tried, I just couldn't justify purchasing the cyclone until I tried some other methods first.
> I spent a good part of today constructing a seperator complete with a Thien baffle to help with the dust. Using the vague pictorial on Paul Thien's site, I started in.
> I wanted the collector to fit a 5 gallon plastic pail. Space is at a premium in my shop and I needed something that could sit behind a tool.
> 
> 
> Measuring the top of the 5 gallon pail, I cut some plywood into 12 1/2" squares and marked the center point on each.
> View attachment 25446
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> 
> Using one of my band saws, I rough cut the first circle to fit the top of the pail. I know that some of you are pretty disappointed that I would use a band saw instead of the ever popular scroll saw that I seem to favour. I was giving my scroll saw a rest. :laughing:
> View attachment 25447
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> 
> 
> After sanding up to the line and test fitting, I measured the interior dimension of the bucket and set up the router table to cut the rabbet required to have the "lid" sit tightly inside of the pail. A test fitting proved to be perfect the first try. I guess my measuring skills are improving.
> View attachment 25448
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> 
> 
> From this point, I needed to mark and cut the holes that would hold my 90 degree bend and my shop vac attachments. So as to not disappoint the members of WWT, I used my scroll saw for this action.
> View attachment 25449
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> 
> 
> I then test fit the 90 degree bend in the hole to the outside of the lid. The hole required a little bit of sanding with the oscillating sander, but in the end, I got a nice tight fit.
> View attachment 25450
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> to be continued..................


As a well qualified engineer with many years of varied design and problem solving , even for multinational companies ,this all seems toooooo casual and there is little defining of objectives. And NO mention of air quality or the vast amounts of invisible dust less than 25 micron. Chips shavings and fibrous materials often make the bulk of "sawdust" and are easy to catch. It is the smallest dust that does the most harm to living creatures, including humans . The best analysis I have seen is by "Bill Pentz" a engineer from the USA that I could not praise highly enough for rigour and precision. William McLachlan


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## woodnthings

*And your point is ....?*



Willy Mac said:


> As a well qualified engineer with many years of varied design and problem solving , even for multinational companies ,this all seems toooooo casual and there is little defining of objectives. And NO mention of air quality or the vast amounts of invisible dust less than 25 micron. Chips shavings and fibrous materials often make the bulk of "sawdust" and are easy to catch. It is the smallest dust that does the most harm to living creatures, including humans . The best analysis I have seen is by "Bill Pentz" a engineer from the USA that I could not praise highly enough for rigour and precision. William McLachlan



Very few woodwo9rkers here, if any, have the technology to measure airborne dust to .05 microns.
Less dust is better, no matter how you achieve it, commercially made units or shop made. A shop made solution is sometimes preferred because of the challenge, the cost or just the enjoyment of building your own, or other reasons.

So what is your beef here. You got a better idea? Post it up, if not, leave us to our own devices.


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## Toolman50

In the future:
Some shop vac company will come out with a fully self contained unit that incorporates a Dust Deputy type system into their unit. This unit will not require further design from woodworkers to stack two separate units or build another "holding platform" to hold the two units. It will be sold as one complete unit which will be compact and easy to empty. It will probably sell like hot cakes. 
I'll buy one.


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## allpurpose

I keep thinking I'm going to make some way to collect all the dust I create out here in the garage, but unfortunately my table saw isn't really designed for dust collection and the rest of my power tools (well most anyway) were purchased from Horror Freight and the dust collection ports on them seem designed more for just getting in the way than anything else. 
Horror Freight seems to have the ability to separate me from money and make me regret it later on although I do have a really spiffy pencil sharpener they call a belt and disc sander.. It has a small dust port that I'm not sure has ever seen dust go through it..


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## BWSmith

Not gonna bust on Bill Pence.I will say however he left a lot on the proverbial "table" with his efforts.Had he invested a little more into sheet metal fabrication tools/techniques to prove his calcs he would've better served his mission.

If you're too cheap to buy a 200$ Dylos...turn the shop lights off(at night,doh)and use a flashlight.

Theory is all fine(ha)and good BUT,each shop space is a rule to itself.General air movement should see your work station between supply and collection with a predictable airflow.Shoot for above 2mph.This not so insignificant little item is the make or break to clean air..moreso than exactly what system or sized ducts you have.


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## Dan3103

If you are worried about the fines (you should be) it's pretty simple to add a smaller micron filter to the vacuum. I have a Dust Deputy and a really old Craftsman shop vac that powers it. I was able to get a Sears filter for mine that will capture 10 microns. I have seen shop vac filters at HD for the Ridgid that capture even smaller particles. 

If the 5 gallon bucket fills too quickly, you could build a "top hat" version of the Thein baffle that does the cyclone above the bucket and leaves the entire capacity of the bucket to catch dust and chips. Here's a youtube video of a bigger top hat working, I always find it pretty cool watching the swirling dust as it settles.


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## raykul

Like the guy already said if you have a better idea post it..if not leave us alone!!!


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## junkmansj

Just Bought a Shop Vac dust collection Kit off Ebay,came today so I installed What I need for Now (Small Shop). Mounted my vac on a cart made from a Small pallet with the Rockler Cyclone Works Great!


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