# Planning the shop



## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

I met with the concrete guy yesterday. I want to put my dust collection pipe for the table saw in the slab and stub it up so that I can one day hook to it. Is this advisable? If so, what sized pipe is the most common? Also, if there is anything anyone has ever wished they would have run through their slab and didn't, I'm all ears! Thanks for any guidance.


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

Mine is 4" thin-walled DWV (drain, waste, & vent) PVC installed under the concrete floor. I've used this system for over eight years. Had only one clog that required drain snake and leaf blower - and that was only because I sawed a bunch of wet treated lumber with heavy, wet, cuttings. I wish I had included a conduit for electricity.


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

Sorry, I just found a better photo.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I kid of wish i had thought of that when I was pouring my slab. However I would be stuck with the 4" pipe since since I'm now switching to the 6" pipe. :laughing:


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Geoguy said:


> Mine is 4" thin-walled DWV (drain, waste, & vent) PVC installed under the concrete floor. I've used this system for over eight years. Had only one clog that required drain snake and leaf blower - and that was only because I sawed a bunch of wet treated lumber with heavy, wet, cuttings. I wish I had included a conduit for electricity.


That's exactly what I want to do. I know where I want it but I have no idea what it entails. I know that the pipe (below the slab) should be glued. What about everywhere else? Do you/y'all leave your fittings to friction so that you can get in there should the need arise?


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

You could put a 5 or 6 inch pipe in and reduce down above the slab. This would allow upgrading to a future tool that might have a bigger outlet.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Ycreek said:


> Do you/y'all leave your fittings to friction so that you can get in there should the need arise?


 
I do not glue any of my PVC, I caulk the outside of the joints (not sure that is needed but sure looks nice).

Anywhere the pipe hangs, I screwed through fittings with 1/2" screws.

If I need to redesign my system, I'll just cut the caulk, and be good to go. :smile:


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

mdntrdr said:


> I do not glue any of my PVC, I caulk the outside of the joints (not sure that is needed but sure looks nice).
> 
> Anywhere the pipe hangs, I screwed through fittings with 1/2" screws.
> 
> If I need to redesign my system, I'll just cut the caulk, and be good to go. :smile:


I have another run going overhead. At each joint I don't use glue but use a small sheet metal screw that keeps the joint from slipping apart. Later, I came back and caulked each joint also (so I really didn't need the screw). Although, I've never had to take them apart except to add new pipe runs.


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## james461 (Mar 21, 2011)

Here is another thought. You might consider a concrete, 12 inches square, trench with steel or wood plates. It give you the abillty to upgrade later and also fix any obstructions that might happen. You can also put your electrical in there as well


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Just some general rambling............from a concrete standpoint you don't want stress points.So under flr ducts need to be just that....under the concrete.Get a layer of gravel over the duct.And even then you'd be wise to really stake that sucker down.They've been known to float up through an un-cured pour.

James brings up sumthin that I "probably" will go with in the future.It ain't the cheapest way 'cause you really got to be on your game so that the concrete dosen't misbehave(think major crack issues).Theres ways around that.......you would need to hit some concrete engineering/data books.But the convenience may very well be worth it.

And you can always do it like the highway dept.Pour a fresh slab and then cut it up.........tongue fully in cheek.There are reasons they do it that way.BW


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## james461 (Mar 21, 2011)

BW has brought up some very good points. Being an electrician by trade I have buried a lot of PVC pipe under concrete and between concrete. Ensuring that is does not float into the concrete is very important. You do not wand cracks. I have seen concrete trenches put into many slabs. They are time consuming for the concrete men but it make sence to me in the long run


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## dwendt1978 (Mar 13, 2010)

Geoguy that is a neat setup. :thumbsup: I'd prolly run mine over with my car!


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Ok. So I've submitted my drawings and such to the historical society in order to get approval for my shop. They meet next week so i hope to begin breaking ground really soon. I've gotten great feedback from all of you about putting my dust collection pipe under the slab (not in it) for my table saw. I'm gonna do it. I hope that my pic is posted correctly from the Grizzly shop planner. My newest question is, can i or should i think about doing the same to the jointer and planer that are also in the middle of the room or am i just looking for trouble? Also, any suggestions about my layout would be great! Thanks!


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

I've posted pics from my iphone here but haven't figured out how to do it on the pc yet. Working on it.

Well, the file is too big for the webpage to do it but am i going about this wrong to put three dust collection pipes under my slab?


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

I think it is a bad idea, because you will never be able to move things around if you decide a different layout works better for you. It also creates a low spot in your system that can become a problem if something gets sucked in like a wrench (see my dust collection thread).


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> I do not glue any of my PVC, I caulk the outside of the joints (not sure that is needed but sure looks nice).
> 
> Anywhere the pipe hangs, I screwed through fittings with 1/2" screws.
> 
> If I need to redesign my system, I'll just cut the caulk, and be good to go. :smile:


Same here... But without the caulk... Piece of tape is all I uses till I know it's all how I want it...

~tom


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

Check out the pics of my DC setup on my page. I love it and I included a recepticle. I have several what I call Hook Up Ports. Also, a standard DC end will wedge itself into the small end of a Sch. 20 Street Elbow. It is awesome.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

TS3660 said:


> Check out the pics of my DC setup on my page. I love it and I included a recepticle. I have several what I call Hook Up Ports. Also, a standard DC end will wedge itself into the small end of a Sch. 20 Street Elbow. It is awesome.


 That looks fantastic! I see that your dust collector is under the floor also. Mine will (might) go down and then come back up as the dust collector will be on the same level as the eqipment. I'm looking for someone to give me a pass on the plan but it may be a mistake. I dunno.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Ycreek said:


> That looks fantastic! I see that your dust collector is under the floor also. Mine will (might) go down and then come back up as the dust collector will be on the same level as the eqipment. I'm looking for someone to give me a pass on the plan but it may be a mistake. I dunno.


The difference is that he can get to the PVC if needed. It isn't buried under a concrete slab. I would run them overhead in the shop. Regardless, it is your shop and you shoud build it the way you want (not the way the rest of us suggest).


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

mwhals said:


> The difference is that he can get to the PVC if needed. It isn't buried under a concrete slab. I would run them overhead in the shop. Regardless, it is your shop and you shoud build it the way you want (not the way the rest of us suggest).


It is my shop but i can't, in good sesnse, "build it the way I want". I have no experience with dust collection. I'm having to rely on advice from those that have dealt with all of the trial and error that must be associated with a DC system. I am digesting ALL of yall's advice and I really appreciate it. Thanks.


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

That is true that I can access the pipe if I need to. But, think of it this way: All sewer lines are underground and although they clogg once in a while, they carry things that are WAYYY more susceptible to clogging than a DC. I say put it in the floor if it's your best option, or even if you just want it there. If it cloggs, clean it out with a hand snake or if needed a power snake. It CAN be cleaned. By the way, I have not had to access my pipe since I installed it about a year ago.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

TS3660 said:


> That is true that I can access the pipe if I need to. But, think of it this way: All sewer lines are underground and although they clogg once in a while, they carry things that are WAYYY more susceptible to clogging than a DC. I say put it in the floor if it's your best option, or even if you just want it there. If it cloggs, clean it out with a hand snake or if needed a power snake. It CAN be cleaned. By the way, I have not had to access my pipe since I installed it about a year ago.


 Decisions, Decisions. That is what I want to do but I'll most likely have above and below. I go in front of the "hysterical society" a week from tomorrow. Once they approve me:boat: I'm gonna start digging my footing. Will post pics. Thanks to you and everyone.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

mwhals said:


> You could put a 5 or 6 inch pipe in and reduce down above the slab. This would allow upgrading to a future tool that might have a bigger outlet.


If I use 5or6 inch pipe under the slab in entirety, will that slow my speed even if I've adapted to 3or4 after the fact?


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Btw, I'm getting a 3hp collector.


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

Ycreek said:


> If I use 5or6 inch pipe under the slab in entirety, will that slow my speed even if I've adapted to 3or4 after the fact?


That's a good question. If your main intake at the DC is only 4", and you run 4 from there, to 6 under the floor, and then 4 to the machine, there will be no reduction in velocity. There will only be a reduction if you finish the run all the way to the machine with 6. But if the machine requires 6, there's nothing you can do except hook 6 to it. But I don't know of any home woodworking machines that require 6. Most are 2, 3, or 4.

If you are a one man shop, you will prolly only have one machine working at a time so 4 is all you'll ever need anyway. 6 wouldn't hurt, but may be money wasted.

The only thing you'll need to do is put blast gates on all machines and close them when you're done. That way the vaccuum will be max at the machine you are using.

If you look at my setup, I have 6 from the DC, then I branch off to 4's to different locations. I do have blast gates on all machines, but I notice the loss in vaccuum if I forget to close one and then go to another machine, even though I have 6 at the DC. So I guess if you want to leave the gates open, the 6 would be a good idea. But again, it only will make a difference if you have 6 at the DC intake.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Ycreek said:


> If I use 5or6 inch pipe under the slab in entirety, will that slow my speed even if I've adapted to 3or4 after the fact?


That is a good question, and I am not sure I can give you a good answer, BUT since I am doing something somewhat similar, I will give you the only answer I have....

I am running 5", and then splitting to 2 4" lines, but during certain operations, specifically when operating my bench top jointer, or planer, both of which use 2.5" I only have one blast gate (4") open and then reduce even further to 2.5" with no ill effects. Now mind you, my entire run of 5" is 2.5' from the DC to the separator barrel, and another 1.5' of nipples going in and out of the separator before I hit the wye to my 4" branches.

I was initially concerned because of the reduction to 2.5", but so far, it's good. I go up overhead, and then down to the separator, and I have had no problems with the material settling, and I tend to have a LOT of long stringy material going through there... It all drops in the separator where it should...


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Man I appreciate it. I think I've decided to go 4in all the way. The more I read about velocity the more I think that is important vs. quantity(at least in my application). My main "trunk line" is going to be a little long. So, if I run one tool at a time then I think CFM will be preserved by not using 6". Thanks for the response!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Ycreek said:


> Man I appreciate it. I think I've decided to go 4in all the way. The more I read about velocity the more I think that is important vs. quantity(at least in my application). My main "trunk line" is going to be a little long. So, if I run one tool at a time then I think CFM will be preserved by not using 6". Thanks for the response!


I went with 4" myself. Because I has a few twist and turns I decided to go with velocity to keep clogs from forming... No real science behind why I did it, it just seemed intuitive...

~tom


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

firemedic said:


> I went with 4" myself. Because I has a few twist and turns I decided to go with velocity to keep clogs from forming... No real science behind why I did it, it just seemed intuitive...
> 
> ~tom


Seems that way to me too.


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