# raising grain question



## it99 (Oct 22, 2009)

I am staining a bar using oil based zar stain.
The wood is birch and pine.
I've read somewhere that's it may be good to raise the grain by wetting the wood and sanding it with a certain grit sandpaper before apply the wood conditoner and stain.
Is this necessary? What does this do?
Will it make it look any better?
Any other advice would be great to help make it look un-amatuerish.
I've seen some project where you can really tell it was an amatuer did it.

Thank you much


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## Julian the woodnut (Nov 5, 2008)

The idea is to lightly wet the wood with alcohol or water and let it dry. Then lightly sand it with 220 or 320 grit sandpaper to knock down the raised fibers and leave the wood smooth for finishing and staining. After this you can use the conditioner and stain. The reason this is necessary is because then you sand the surface, you are tearing the fibers of the wood, and its these small fibers that will raise up once they get wet. The way around this is to use a card scraper or plane to get to the final steps instead of using sandpaper.


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## it99 (Oct 22, 2009)

*reply*

will there be a noticable difference if I wet, let dry and sand versus just sanding it?

I called a paint/staini store and they said you don't need to raise the grain and you should just sand. I'm confused?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

it99 said:


> I am staining a bar using oil based zar stain.
> The wood is birch and pine.
> I've read somewhere that's it may be good to raise the grain by wetting the wood and sanding it with a certain grit sandpaper before apply the wood conditoner and stain.
> Is this necessary? What does this do?
> ...



*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*

The problems with procedures is 'things heard or read'. Some of these procedures get spread around on forums, and for some people if they work...that's great.

For me, I don't start a finishing project with a problem like raising the grain. I use whatever methods and products to provide me with a fast and trouble free finish. After all time is money.

Depending on the specie, and what finish I'm after, I may treat open pore and closed pore woods differently. I always start with the bare wood that has been sanded, and ready to finish. This is the point that the decision is to be made about conditioner, grain filler or stain. If stained or dyed, I'll use an oil base stain or a NGR (non grain raising stain or dye). 

Once whatever I've done up to that point cures, apply the first coat of the finish. The basic prep up to this point will allow an oil base varnish, oil base polyurethane, lacquer or waterbase polyurethane. With successive coats and light sanding in between coats, I wind up with a finish I'm happy with, and can collect a check with.

This is basically what I do. It seems pretty simple. I'm sure others may not agree with my schedule and have their own methods. So, we develop our own techniques while trying other methods and ultimately do what we feel provides the look and feel we want.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Generally, if you are doing a water based finish or an non film oil you can raise the grain. You can also raise the grain of some closed pore woods (ie:Maple) so you can get a darker stain as it opens up the grain. But if you are using a non water based stain and/or a oil/lacquer based finish there is really no need to to raise the grain.


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## Brian_Hinther (Sep 13, 2009)

There is also the school of thought that pre-raising does no good:

http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Hardwood/TipSheets/RaisingGrain.html


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## Streamwinner (Nov 25, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Generally, if you are doing a water based finish or an non film oil you can raise the grain. You can also raise the grain of some closed pore woods (ie:Maple) so you can get a darker stain as it opens up the grain. But if you are using a non water based stain and/or a oil/lacquer based finish there is really no need to to raise the grain.


This was also my understanding. I made the mistake once of using a water based poly on oak, which caused the grain to swell significantly. I'm not sure how much the wet/sand/wet/sand technique would have helped, and if I were to do it again I'd just use oil based poly.


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## fr8train (Oct 19, 2008)

I am currently finishing a (largely) pine project. I hope to post pictures after I am done. I have spent some time making firewood as a result of staining gone bad.... what I found works best (after this trial and error methodology) is to raise the grain with 150 gr or something close to it. 220 is too fine. The stain "catches" a lot better and more evenly with a lesser grit. Don't forget to pre-treat these softwoods with pre-stain, to avoid blotchiness. I then give it two coats for a darker finish, and then I use a wipe-on poly. Once you put on two-three coats of poly, you can use a finer-grain steel wool between applications to get that ultra-smooth surface..... for soft woods, this is what works for me. FR8


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## red (Sep 30, 2008)

You are using an oil base finish, I would not raise the grain but I would use a wood conditioner to help control blotching on the birch and pine. If you use a water base finish, you must raise the grain and then lightly sand.

Red


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## garryswf (Aug 17, 2009)

IT99,
The only time i have had the need to raise the grain was when i was building one of my guns. After raising the grain i did not sand the stock to get a smooth finish, instead i used a scrape that would allow me to actually work with the contour of the stock. You might try something like this on a scrap piece of wood to see if you get the desired result.


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