# Craftsman 113.298032



## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

I am brand new to this site and very green at wood working.

I am looking for something to replace my little Delta bench saw. I am in the middle of my first wood working project, a Franklin chair, made of red oak. It has been a learning experience for me, needless to say.

I have learned a lot reading posts on this site and others and have a simple question. Is the saw in this craigslist post a good choice? I understand that I should look for cast iron table, induction motor...

http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/tls/3522390164.html

Thanks for any help!

Chuck Barnett


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Its a good saw, and appears in decent condition.....now the downsides, the stamped steel wings, many of the craftsman ones had cast iron wings, which are a bit sturdier, next, the fence, its not a particularly good fence, but can be upgraded to a very good delta t2 fence for around 150 bucks. 

Other than that.....looks good


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

This may be a better deal....the pictures are a bit small...

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/tls/3517511636.html


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Or this one......a bit of clean up, and buy a good fence....and you've got less into it than the one you were looking at, with a better fence and a new belt. 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/tls/3507181293.html


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

I have sent inquiries to both. The Enumclaw one is about 2 hrs away. 

So, you can tell by looking if the top is cast or otherwise and if the motor is an induction style motor?

Thanks, again!

Chuck Barnett


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

ChuckBarnett said:


> I am brand new to this site and very green at wood working.
> 
> I am looking for something to replace my little Delta bench saw. I am in the middle of my first wood working project, a Franklin chair, made of red oak. It has been a learning experience for me, needless to say.
> 
> ...


those emerson electric built TSs were real little workhorses. i have two of them. one is a c-man, the other a ridgid 2412, so i know that model pretty well. the first linked saw is nice but overpriced by ~$100. the last CL post is the saw i'd look at, provided the motor and bearings are sound. add a delta t2 fence, an osborne eb-3 miter gauge, a splitter and blade guard off ebay and you're off to the races with a saw that should serve you until you get tired of it. proper alignment and technique along with a good blade will easily provide fine woodworking cuts.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Very grateful for the quick and detailed advice! 

Chuck Barnett


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The saw has potential...basically the same guts as the older Ridgid contractor saws, but it's overpriced at $225. I'd only pay that if it had an upgraded fence and cast iron wings. I wouldn't pay over $125 for it with the original fence and steel wings. 

This is pretty much the same saw with a better fence for the same price.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/tls/3497121674.html


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

I guess if you've seen enough of these you can tell by looking what model they are and if they are good or not... I should look for Rigid as well as the Craftsman in this class.

 mebbe some day I'll get there... then again, mebbe not...


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

ChuckBarnett said:


> I guess if you've seen enough of these you can tell by looking what model they are and if they are good or not... I should look for Rigid as well as the Craftsman in this class.
> 
> mebbe some day I'll get there... then again, mebbe not...


You'll get it once you've seen them a couple of times. Contractor saws from both brands were made by Emerson in the US at one point, then both eventually switched over to TTI/Ryobi in Asia as some point, though never at the same time (~1997 for Cman, ~2003/2004 for Ridgid, with the last of any of these being made ~ 2007/2008 - model TS3660). Many of the parts are interchangeable between them. The later Craftsmans offered a better fence that's very similar to what Ridgid always offered on their contractor saws. Things like wings, wheels, and other accessories vary a bit by model, but the basic guts remain very similar. Ironically, later on both have offered hybrid saws from Steel City/Orion, and both currently offer nearly identical saws from Dayton (R4512 and 21833)

Here's an older Craftsman with the very common "lame" fence:









Here's one with the updated fence:









Here's a Ridgid with a pretty similar fence:









A shot from the rear of both brands (light gray is older Ridgid, orange is later Ridgid, dark gray is Cman):


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> Its a good saw, and appears in decent condition.....now the downsides, the stamped steel wings, many of the craftsman ones had cast iron wings, which are a bit sturdier, next, the fence, its not a particularly good fence, but can be upgraded to a very good delta t2 fence for around 150 bucks.
> 
> Other than that.....looks good


The stamped steel wings are no problem. That is what my saw has and have given me no trouble for the past over 30 years.

That is the original fence and should be upgraded.

George


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

knotscott said:


> The saw has potential...basically the same guts as the older Ridgid contractor saws, but it's overpriced at $225. I'd only pay that if it had an upgraded fence and cast iron wings. I wouldn't pay over $125 for it with the original fence and steel wings.
> 
> This is pretty much the same saw with a better fence for the same price.
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/tls/3497121674.html


the linked saw here is a ridgid 2412 that's seen what appears to be some rather rough service. and just for the purpose of increasing the OP's knowledge base, the miter gauge and spitter/blade guard in the fourth pic in knotscott's linked CL ad above do not go with the featured saw. the splitter appears to be for a much newer saw.


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

I have that same saw and love it. I paid $ 75.00 for mine. The one at $225.00 is a bit overpriced. I never replaced the fence on mine and it works fine. As well as adjusting the alignment there is a spring with a nylon pad that keeps pressure on the fence rail. When it is adjusted properly (page 13 owners manual) it tracks very well. If you are going to upgrade the fence go for the $60.00 one. I bought another one for $50.00 just for parts and a spare motor.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Okay, here's the latest in my search... http://skagit.craigslist.org/tls/3526630942.html -over an hour away but... Thoughts?

Thank you, guys! 

Chuck Barnett


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

I am in contact with the owner of this one too. http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/tls/3524040544.html

I would only buy the saw. He sounds firm at $200.00

Thanks, again.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Here's one for $50 without a fence (which is a plus in this case IMO). The motor is worth $50 if it runs, so there's very little down side. Add a Delta T2 fence for ~ $165 shipped, and you've got a pretty nice saw. The rust should clean up nicely.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that's a sweet set up*

I don't think $350 is too far off considering the sliding table is worth $200.00 minimum. It will make cross cutting a breeze and heck, if you don't like it sell it off separately yourself. If I didn't have a Frankensaw, more than one saw bolted together, I'd want a set up like that. But that's just me.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

knotscott said:


> Here's one for $50 without a fence (which is a plus in this case IMO). The motor is worth $50 if it runs, so there's very little down side. Add a Delta T2 fence for ~ $165 shipped, and you've got a pretty nice saw. The rust should clean up nicely.


@ knotscott: Worth consideration. THANKS!

The sliding table saw is a 113.241680. I read that this is a "flex shaft" saw. What does that mean and is that a concern?

A friend is looking at the Grizzly G1022 for me tomorrow -he thinks that is the saw he owns.

Bless you guys!!


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

flex drive TSs use a cable, much like an old speedometer cable, to transfer the rotary motion of the motor to the arbor rather than the drive belt of most TSs. i have experience with one of those c-man units and it was incredibly unimpressive, IMHO.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

toolguy1000 said:


> flex drive TSs use a cable, much like an old speedometer cable, to transfer the rotary motion of the motor to the arbor rather than the drive belt of most TSs. i have experience with one of those c-man units and it was incredibly unimpressive, IMHO.


+1. The flexible shaft will fail at some point. It costs around $100 to replace.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The only thing I see going against it is the price but prices vary from place to place. In the Dallas area you could get a saw like that for $150.00


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

I appreciate you all for your help. I'm not a good shopper... it takes work!! I think I'll try to see the Grizzly saw.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

the griz in an old, rough looking, *right tilt* contractor saw with what looks to be an iffy fence. i'll travel for a tool, but it's got to be worth it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Right tilt?*

I'm right handed and would be totally bassackards trying to use a right tilt saw after years of using a left tilt. There's a safety issue when beveling unless your fence is on the left side of the tilted blade it will trap the work resulting in a kickback. I wouldn't walk down the block to get a right tilt....JMO.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The Grizzly looked a little rough for the price point, but it will clean up. You gain grated cast wings vs steel, a little more mass, and possibly a slightly more powerful motor with the Griz vs the $50 Craftsman that needs a fence. The Griz fence is a question mark IMO....might be ok, might be a candidate to replace. The guts underneath favor the old Craftsman...it has a one piece cast arbor carriage, whereas the Griz has connecting rods as an arbor carriage. The Cman is made in the USA, the Griz in Taiwan.

Both have similar potential. Do the math and get the one that makes the most sense to you. Once setup well and fitted with a good blade, you won't be able to tell which saw made the cut by looking at the board.

The Griz should look something like this underneath (prolly with a bit more crud and rust):









The Cman should look something like this (also with a bit more crud and rust):


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

WOW! Good wisdom on right versus left-handed tilt. I had no idea. I may end up with a shorter trip after all.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Here's a pic of a similar basic Cman contractor saw with the T2 fence....very similar to what you could do for a tad north of $200 total.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, all of you who preach patience can cop a Yoda expression of knowing just now. I have a SAW. Monday evening, I was intro'ing myself to a class I was teaching and my phone (which I had left on) showed a number of a guy an hour and a half away with the Grizzly for $225. I commented that woodworking was new and "Does anyone have a saw they want to sell me cheap?" A guy raised his had and said, "I have one I'll GIVE you." Thursday I got it: Craftsman 113.29943. Arbor pulley wouldn't stay on he said. I put it on with a new key and it runs nice and quiet! First cross cut seemed square and smooth. Now to learn about cleaning it up and all. The wheels are stiff under load but not bad the other way (blade up/down, arbor tilt). What to use on the gears? Oil? some sort of silicon lube? graphite? wax?

I've sure appreciated you all,

Thanks, again!

Chuck Barnett


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

ChuckBarnett said:


> What to use on the gears? Oil? some sort of silicon lube? graphite? wax?


Happy to hear such a good ending to a thread. The woodworking gods are shining on you. :thumbsup:

The lubrication question comes up now and again.

Grease or oil will collect sawdust and cause things to get worse.

You need a "dry" lubrication, like this.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/dupont-teflon-chain-lube.htm

Normally available at many hardware stores, etc.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

ChuckBarnett said:


> Well, all of you who preach patience can cop a Yoda expression of knowing just now. I have a SAW. Monday evening, I was intro'ing myself to a class I was teaching and my phone (which I had left on) showed a number of a guy an hour and a half away with the Grizzly for $225. I commented that woodworking was new and "Does anyone have a saw they want to sell me cheap?" A guy raised his had and said, "I have one I'll GIVE you." Thursday I got it: Craftsman 113.29943. Arbor pulley wouldn't stay on he said. I put it on with a new key and it runs nice and quiet! First cross cut seemed square and smooth. Now to learn about cleaning it up and all. The wheels are stiff under load but not bad the other way (blade up/down, arbor tilt). What to use on the gears? Oil? some sort of silicon lube? graphite? wax?
> 
> I've sure appreciated you all,
> 
> ...



Its not true if we don't see pictures!!! Congrats


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

Congratulations on the saw ( almost ) purchased*. * :laughing: I hope you also put in a new set screw*.* :thumbsup:

Make sure the stiffness isn't because of a previous owner not knowing how to set it up *.* I discovered that on one my son bought pre owned *.* As the blade was raised the belt became tighter and tighter until it was like a guitar string *. *That same previous owner also didn't know to push the fence forward to make it align with the miter slots before locking and that it was adjustable* . 
*


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Its not true if we don't see pictures!!! Congrats


Well, actually I tried to add pics both to my post and to my profile (album), but... any simple tricks?


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

SandburRanch said:


> Congratulations on the saw ( almost ) purchased*. * :laughing: I hope you also put in a new set screw*.* :thumbsup:


Thanks! Not sure why, but I will do that. :smile:


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Dave Paine said:


> You need a "dry" lubrication, like this.
> 
> http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/dupont-teflon-chain-lube.htmhttp://


Dave, thanks for the advice. The link isn't working somehow, but I see that it must be a teflon chain lube made by Dupont, or something similar.

The pdf manual I downloaded says SAE 20 or 30 for most everything but, I got to thinking about that... and the improvements in lubrications over the years (40 year-old saw!)


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

113.29943


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

It seems that the photos need to be fairly small, so I edited them down to acceptable sizes.


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

ChuckBarnett said:


> Thanks! Not sure why, but I will do that. :smile:


The set screw has possibly run in adverse conditions and may have lost its sharp edge which diminishes its intended ability to secure those parts. The price of the screw and labor is a small price to pay verses a ruined arbor shaft.


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

It would be a long drive but I know where you can double your money*.*:laughing:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

ChuckBarnett said:


> Dave, thanks for the advice. The link isn't working somehow, but I see that it must be a teflon chain lube made by Dupont, or something similar.
> 
> The pdf manual I downloaded says SAE 20 or 30 for most everything but, I got to thinking about that... and the improvements in lubrications over the years (40 year-old saw!)


I fixed the link.

It is a teflon lubricant which is dry after being applied, so does not attract sawdust.

The web page is from a motorcycle site. These folks also need lubrication of drive chains without picking up dirt from the road.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

that saw will clean up very nicely with a little effort. slap a delta t2 fence on it, find a splitter/blade guard assembly on ebay and away you go.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Not sure what I did but...

I shot the threads/gears with the recommended Dupont dry lube and am working on getting things working smoothly.

The chief problem now it that I can't get the blade to raise. I dropped it to lowest position, trying to figure out why the wheel is so stiff. I found what someone mentioned -that the belt is very tight as the blade gets higher. rotated the motor per the downloaded manual so vents aren't snorting sawdust, and let the belt tension screw stay loose. I dropped the blade to absolute lowest position and can't get it to raise. As I turn the wheel, the shaft is backing out of the threads. THAT doesn't seem right...

Any help?


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

photos of screw/gear problem...


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Does the elevation wheel still move or is it frozen in place? Can you see the threads/teeth where they are currently making contact? If so, what is their condition?

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

take the drive belt off the motor and see it that frees up the elevation wheel. just pivot the motor towards the back of the saw which will allow the belt to be slipped off the motor pulley. that motor needs to be properly positioned or the drive belt can restrict the movement of the arbor.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Phaedrus said:


> Does the elevation wheel still move or is it frozen in place? Can you see the threads/teeth where they are currently making contact? If so, what is their condition?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Woodworking Talk


The wheel moves easily (too easily). The teeth and threads are fine it appears. I'm wondering if the threaded screw has be backed too far and is no longer contacting the gears. You can see from photos that some sort of separation is occurring on the handle side of the threaded screw, almost like I've broken a keeper of some sort.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

There are stop collars on the arbor tilt screw but I see nothing external that prevents the blade elevation screw from backing out too far.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It looks to me like the center picture in post 42 the rod that threads the elevation is threading out instead of operating the trunnion. There should be a lock ring or something preventing it from comming out. The rod should stay in place as shown in the first picture.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Serching for a similar problem led me to another wood working forum (which I find includes some names I see here.  ) and learned that there should be a retaining clip (what is called an E clip?) on the far end of the lift screw.  I found it in sawdust below my saw and reinserted it. :yes:

Thanks again for your patience!

Chuck (preacher-not-mechanic) Barnett

PS: see photo, tho of poor quality.


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

photo


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks, Phaedrus! Now on to other things... the motor quit... starting a new thread... :no:


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## ChuckBarnett (Jan 5, 2013)

So... still working on getting the best out of this old saw. I need a better fence than the original one. Some say buy a Shop Fox fence ($200 or so). Some say buy a used Delta T2 fence. I found one on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Delta...401?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3382410181. Is this a good choice? I know nothing about fences other than what I read and that the one I have is undesirable. I assume there is a way to bolt this onto this Craftsman...

Thank you all.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The T2 is a nice fence, but $140+ for a used one isn't much of a bargain IMO. They're getting harder to come by lately, but a new one can be had in the $180 range. Once you get near the $200 mark, the Shop Fox Classic or a Vega start to become fairly attractive. 

http://toolsandmore.us/delta-36-t30-fence-system-30.aspx?gclid=CMjyt8iFoLcCFRSVMgodHRsAkg


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

i don't see the rear rail for the linked t2. there is a rear rail and it is necessary to the proper operation of the fence system. and KS is right about the t2. getting harder to find and prices are rising. i got one 2 years ago from a fellow woodnetter for $50. it's as accurate as the OEM fence on my related ridgid 2412.

some creativity can be necessary when applying a t2 to an emerson built (113 series) c-man ts. but it is a very good fence system and will definietly enhance the accuracy of the saw. here's a write up that details the operation that's well written and fairly comprehensive:

http://http://www.instructables.com/id/Retrofitting-A-Delta-T2-Fence-to-a-Craftsman-Table/

good luck.


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## UPNORTFAN (May 22, 2013)

Hello.
Although do not have model you mentioned, have just picked up a 113.298031 at a yard sale (He Delivered). Had a newer TS and could see why. I offered $40 and $50 to deliver--Sold. Noticed a few issues which thought are fixable. Pulleys on motor and blade shaft not fitting well and buggered up. Blade shaft no Woodruff key and used set screw instead (spun on shaft naturally) and broke out side of pulley. Othersiwe everything works and moves and blade shaft good and stable. (New blade was a plus but used huge lockwasher on shaft, which I will replace with appropriate washer assemly) I decided to take apart and rebuild. (Had to do this to get the pulley off blade shaft anyway. My take is the 113 series of Craftsman are pretty good models.


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