# Selling on Etsy



## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I wanted to start this topic again. I had it before but can't find the old one. I started my Etsy shop in Feb of 2012 and went full time in May of 2013. I have had good success on Etsy and I see lots of misinformation on it. I would like to open a discussion on it with anyone that has any interest. 

There are lots of woodworkers on Etsy, like more than 2000 and many make lots of money there. My sales in 2015 increased over 2014 by more than $120K. So I know it can be done. If you have any questions on Etsy, selling on there, shipping etc I am ready.


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks for offering to share your experience.

I'm currently working on a coffee table, of my own design, that I might try to sell on etsy. I'd probably need to sell it at $5K to make it worthwhile. Of course, I wonder if anything sells for $5K on etsy, or if that price point is just too high to make any sales. 

So, my question is, have you found that there are price points where stuff sells, and above it a certain threshold it just sits there? I know there's a lot of lower-priced craft type stuff, but (I don't think) you can really make a living selling at those prices. (just to be clear, I'm not knocking anybody's craft, I'm only talking about a profitable business).

Thanks for any input you can provide.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

I've also been considering Etsy for a while to make some side money. 

Seems to me like everything I've seen is one of two things: either small stuff that would be more high production but that sells at a below profitable margin, or high end stuff selling for thousands but how many of those items actually sell at those prices.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

VIF I also have interest. Is there a link to your etsy site? I'm looking for a different marketing field. I'm interested in a quality market place known for better pieces not as a LSN (local sales network) or a craigslist as most are looking for a deal not a quality artistic product. You may look at my website link here http://www.tsmfarms.com/for-sale.html and see a few of the pieces I've made might be of the needs in the Etsy market.
Thanks


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*here's your other thread*

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/selling-etsy-65996/


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

pweller said:


> Thanks for offering to share your experience.
> 
> I'm currently working on a coffee table, of my own design, that I might try to sell on etsy. I'd probably need to sell it at $5K to make it worthwhile. Of course, I wonder if anything sells for $5K on etsy, or if that price point is just too high to make any sales.
> 
> ...


People do sell expensive stuff on Etsy. But lower priced stuff sells much better. I've been trying to explain to my friends the way Etsy works. They show me a link to a nice table on Etsy that's on there for $600 and ask why I don't make stuff like that. First I don't have nice enough equipment to but mostly I don't have time. I explain that in the time it takes that guy to make that table I can make 4 and make more profit than he did. Plus I don't have to sit on my piece for a month. My in stock stuff sells within days of listing. 

Generally popular in stock items can sell same day, next day. I've had a piece sell 19 minutes after listing. Probably luck but still. 

Most sales on Etsy are lower priced items. These items are generally well below you guys skill level. The popular items these days are simple basic wood items, old reclaimed wood, crappy looking wood etc. For whatever reason it sells quickly. I sell a lot of desks. Coffee tables I havent been selling much of until this past week. I added them to my promoted listings on there. It costs a dollar a day for that but they sell. 

Here is a link to my shop. You can see the basic stuff I make. 

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Vintagesteelandwood?ref=l2-shopheader-name

I used to make bigger more complicated stuff but this stuff sells so much faster i'm covered up.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Chamfer said:


> I've also been considering Etsy for a while to make some side money.
> 
> Seems to me like everything I've seen is one of two things: either small stuff that would be more high production but that sells at a below profitable margin, or high end stuff selling for thousands but how many of those items actually sell at those prices.



Depends on what it is. I sell everything I make for a decent price and make a profit on everything. But I have changed the way I do things and quit making some things that take too much time. Then I changed my processes to make things faster. Generally I have less than 2 hours worth of labor in any item I make. Most about one hour to and hour and a half. 

For example I used to make wood benches. But they take more time to make than a coffee table or desk and sell for less. So I no longer make them even though they are pretty easy to make and sell well. 

I also used to make lots of large clothing racks with multiple shelves and I'm getting to where I don't have enough time to do those as much either.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/selling-etsy-65996/


I was looking for that thread but could not find it. Much has changed since then. I have reduced the amount of time I put into a table by about half.

There are a bunch of good pics on that thread on the second page.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Tennessee Tim said:


> VIF I also have interest. Is there a link to your etsy site? I'm looking for a different marketing field. I'm interested in a quality market place known for better pieces not as a LSN (local sales network) or a craigslist as most are looking for a deal not a quality artistic product. You may look at my website link here http://www.tsmfarms.com/for-sale.html and see a few of the pieces I've made might be of the needs in the Etsy market.
> Thanks


Link to my shop:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/Vintagesteelandwood

Any of that stuff on your site will sell. There are things like that on there. The next thing you have to do is get them noticed. When making an ad on there you have to have the key words that people search for. They allow 13 key words and 13 key words in the materials so you can cover every term people would use to search for that item. For example go to Etsy and search for hairpin legs desk, hairpin legs, or hairpin legs table. On page one somewhere usually is my shop. that's due to promoted listings and the sale volume I have. 

Items sell on Etsy from cheap very low priced up to works of art that sell for thousands. It just depends on whether you are wanting to sell some art work, make some extra cash or do it full time. 

So maybe search for something similar to yours on Etsy and see what comes up. The key words they use are at the bottom of the page.


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks for your information.

How do you know what keywords people are searching for? Is there a way to see what the most popular search terms are?

I'm guessing that the most popular search terms are going to indicate what is most likely to sell. For example, do more people search for 'desk' rather than 'coffee table'? This would correlate to your experience selling more desks than coffee tables.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

pweller said:


> Thanks for your information.
> 
> How do you know what keywords people are searching for? Is there a way to see what the most popular search terms are?
> 
> I'm guessing that the most popular search terms are going to indicate what is most likely to sell. For example, do more people search for 'desk' rather than 'coffee table'? This would correlate to your experience selling more desks than coffee tables.


On your stats page for your shop you can see what search words people used to find your item. There is probably a way to find out. I have not done that research. I do know that people search for desks and tables more than coffee tables. 

In your shop stats page it shows where the clicks are coming from, what words they searched with and your top key words searched for. 

I have both of my styles of tables and desks with the same amount of promotion and desks still out sell coffee tables about 3 or 4 to one. It was much higher until I added coffee tables to promoted listings. Whether something sells or not is also dependent on price and what it looks like. If I have two equal tables and I have before, and they have different pics one gets more looks than the other. It's due to people typing in a key word then scrolling through pics till they see something that catches their eye. 

None of my stuff is all that special or high tone expensive quality. All my stuff has that basic wood look and feel with attention to detail. No sharp edges, rounded corners and beveled edges as well as no pits of holes. Smooth top easy for writing etc. That is what people ask for most.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I will take a screen shot of my stats page and post it. It shows where traffic comes from and what they are viewing and clicking.


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## was2ndlast (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks for all the info. Do you use the same wood for everything and just stain to customer spec? If so what wood and where do you source it from?

Congrats, I did check stats and at 2300+ sales you have done real well.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

was2ndlast said:


> Thanks for all the info. Do you use the same wood for everything and just stain to customer spec? If so what wood and where do you source it from?
> 
> Congrats, I did check stats and at 2300+ sales you have done real well.


I use SPF whitewood from the big box store for everything. I don't use any hardwoods at all. Wherever they get it for some reason it has real nice grain patterns. I do not use any yellow pine for anything. The stuff I get has real nice grains. I will post a pic of some of that raw. 

I offer 10 stain choices and make most stuff to order. As I get spare time or my oldest son is in town to help we make extra "in stock" tables that I offer. Those sell real well. 

Most of you can take one look at what I am making and see what they are made of as well as about what time and materials are there. This desk is made with some regular SPF it just happened to have a nice grain to make it look like old reclaimed wood. 










The hairpin legs we make in house. I have my 18 year old son doing those part time and his friend also part time after school. We also sell the legs by themselves.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

Very inspiring. I have always planned on opening an etsy page after I got some of my other projects completed but we will probably be moving that up the schedule  we'll be starting with signs from reclaimed lumber. We've searched around on etsy the last few days and have seen a lot of wood signs but nothing quite like we do for our booths so hopefully we'll have a niche.


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## was2ndlast (Apr 11, 2014)

Do you ship your products fully assembled?


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I do not ship assembled. Just think of how big the packaging would need to be to ship a table with the legs on or a clothing rack assembled. It would have to go on a pallet and cost $300 or more to ship. The table in the pic above is 48" long, 20" wide and 30" high. It ships in a box that is 49" long, 21" wide and 6" deep. 

To do this you can't buy just a single box. This is why I mentioned box centric above. Making stuff easy to ship. I will give an example. My planer is 20" wide so the widest tables I make are 20" (really 19.75" so they fit in a 20" wide box) I used to make wider ones by doing two glue ups then putting them together and sanding out the seam later. But it's just not worth all the extra time it takes to make those. The length is also set by boxes. I sell them from 30" long to 59" long. The best place to get boxes easy and cheap is Uline. They sell 20" wide boxes in 20x20x6 and 20x30x6. Cant go with a more shallow box as there has to be room for the legs. 

So to ship any table I have to put two boxes together with the ends cut out. For a 40" table I would use two 20x20 boxes and for a 59" table I would use two 20x30 boxes. Anything in between I just cut one of the boxes. I use a 4' T square to mark them and cut them with a box knife. I use the flat cardboard pads inside and around the inside and outside perimeter of the box with 3 layers minimum on all sides. This keeps them from damage and I can ship them cheap instead of having to make a wood box or pallet to ship on. 

The table above can be shipped from Texas to either coast for less than $40 UPS ground. I do have a good rate as I ship several a day. The legs are packaged in boxes individually and then put in the box with the top and the screws. My shipping guy can box a table in 30 to 45 minutes at a decent pace. Faster if we have to. I would not be able to do the volume I do without making everything easy to ship. This goes back to what we talked about earlier with the benches. Same amount of time to make a table, half the price and twice the time to package. Easy to see why I don't make those. If I could make them with detachable legs maybe they are profitable.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Here is a screen shot of part of the stats page. I can't show all of it because it shows money info. But the stats page has all stats of where people are clicking from, what they are clicking most etc to help tailor your items to get maximum sales. This pic is the most active pages on my Etsy shop page..









That shows how many views. I have it set to show 2015 totals. You can show this week, last week, month or whatever year. The next pic is the top keywords searched for in my shop. 










Now that I have my shop established I rarely look at these or adjust anything. But this is just scratching the surface of what all you can do to increase sales and track what is getting attention and what is not. 

Remember opening an Etsy shop is free. Making a listing costs 20 cents and last for 180 days. When the item sells they get 3.5% And speaking of payments Etsy now takes all cards and Paypal even if you dont have a Paypal account. The Etsy direct checkout lets them accept the payment and they send you a deposit once a week. They send a deposit Monday afternoon and it's in my bank account Tuesday morning. You can also schedule an earlier deposit any day of the week.


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

Those screenshots are interesting, thanks for posting.

My observation is that the search terms people are using are pretty simple and broad, as in 'desk' and not 'hairpin leg reclaimed wood computer desk'. I think on google, which has a much broader database, the search terms have to be more specific (imagine doing a search for 'desk' on google!).

It looks like the overall take on selling is about 6.5% or so? (3.5% for etsy, 3% for paypal?). I'm pretty sure that's cheaper than ebay. I wonder if etsy's percentage goes down as the price of the item goes up (that's what ebay does).


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

pweller said:


> Those screenshots are interesting, thanks for posting.
> 
> My observation is that the search terms people are using are pretty simple and broad, as in 'desk' and not 'hairpin leg reclaimed wood computer desk'. I think on google, which has a much broader database, the search terms have to be more specific (imagine doing a search for 'desk' on google!).
> 
> It looks like the overall take on selling is about 6.5% or so? (3.5% for etsy, 3% for paypal?). I'm pretty sure that's cheaper than ebay. I wonder if etsy's percentage goes down as the price of the item goes up (that's what ebay does).


Many sales come from people searching on Google and an Etsy listing comes up. Just google reclaimed wood coffee table or something similar. Etsy will be all over the searches. 

The 3.5% stays the same. If you have direct checkout they get another I think .25% or something. I call it the cost of the site. Cheap if you ask me. I do very well on there.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Hey Mike, 

This is all great info. I read with interest the last time you posted this sort of info. Curious, though, are you set up as an LLC, Inc., partnership, etc.? Just wondering if you've whittled that part down as well as the Etsy selling part. I'm asking because I have considered jumping off into the Etsy world but no sense reinventing the proverbial wheel if you can advise accordingly.

Thanks!
David


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> This is all great info. I read with interest the last time you posted this sort of info. Curious, though, are you set up as an LLC, Inc., partnership, etc.? Just wondering if you've whittled that part down as well as the Etsy selling part. I'm asking because I have considered jumping off into the Etsy world but no sense reinventing the proverbial wheel if you can advise accordingly.
> 
> ...


Glad you asked. The main reason I started these threads is to help anyone starting an Etsy shop. I see lots of incorrect info and just a lot of not knowing anything about it. I really wish someone would have helped me along the way. I see so many talented guys here asking how to make money doing what they love. This is one way for sure. I will help all I can. 

I incorporated in December of 2014 through Legalzoom.com and my wife handled it all. The only thing I havent done that I need to is get a sales tax permit. I would use that only when selling to someone in my state. My shop is set up as an S corp. I am an employee of the company. I also have a PEO (payroll company) that does the payroll. All I do is go on their site once a week and enter everyones hours. They take out the SS, medicare, FICA and income tax and make a deposit to everyones bank on Friday. At the end of the year, like now we all get a w-2 and all the taxes and everything have been paid all year. So a lot less paperwork for me to do. 

Plus if the company gets sued I don't lose my house or anything I personally own. Plus it's much easier to deduct expenses that way.

Etsy is now also offering health insurance with great rates. I already have other so I wont get it but its good to see what the rates are. 

Please ask me any questions. No matter how small I will give you my take on it. 

Remember these bullet points.. No cost to open a shop, 20 cents a listing and 3.5% +/- to sell something. 

So no real risk selling on there.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

The legal zoom thing cost me $750


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Is the payroll company local to you, national, or online? My wife would handle the finances and bookkeeping. We're both good at finances but one of her many degrees is accounting and my best friend is our CPA, so that part of it would be pretty straight forward for them. Neither would want to do payroll, though, so I wouldn't even ask.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Is the payroll company local to you, national, or online? My wife would handle the finances and bookkeeping. We're both good at finances but one of her many degrees is accounting and my best friend is our CPA, so that part of it would be pretty straight forward for them. Neither would want to do payroll, though, so I wouldn't even ask.


It's local to me. They are a PEO (Professional Employer Organization) and the name is resourcing edge. My wife used to work there.

They charge like $16 per person per pay period. I think that's right. It comes with employers comp and some other services. But for me handling the payroll and taxes FICA SS medicare etc is well worth it to me. I have no interest in doing all that paperwork and figuring. 

There are some that do just payroll and they charge less.


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## was2ndlast (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks for the info. If I have more I will ask ...hope that's OK.


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## was2ndlast (Apr 11, 2014)

I can also PM if everyone gets bored of my questions 😢😢😢


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Ask anything you want. Glad to help any way I can. It's a nice and fun way to make money from things you make. I have my shop at home. I just built a building last year and still working on the inside walls and insulation. Next I have to raise the concrete floor 4 or 5" higher all while doing it 6 days a week. 

I'm sure you all have a similar story on how you make time for your hobby. I am trying to make sure it does not get boring and start not liking it. I hope I can help someone make a few short cuts to get an Etsy shop set up.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

Keep asking your questions on here!! Don't pm. I'd like (and I'm sure others would too) to see the questions and answers.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

michaelpugh said:


> Keep asking your questions on here!! Don't pm. I'd like (and I'm sure others would too) to see the questions and answers.


+1 What he said.

It seems sometimes, well, a lot of times, I get tired of doing the same old thing. Maybe I get side tracked or whatever. While I would like to give Etsy a try, I am still a little nervous about it.


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## was2ndlast (Apr 11, 2014)

Does etsy provide reporting/records that make it easy to file income tax?


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## CudaDude (May 3, 2013)

I’ve lurked around here for a couple years, but I think this is my first post. How can those of us that are very ‘small time’ protect ourselves? I’m referring to those of us who work out of a garage or small shop at home and would like to make a little income on the side of a regular full time job. 
I was watching the news a while back and saw a story about a CA lawsuit against IKEA for dressers that can potentially fall over on children. I know that becoming an LLC protects your assets outside of the business. But like I said, what about the small timers that just do this on the side?


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Yes you can open and/or download a file any time. They also send an I-9 I think it is at the end of the year. They do not send anything unless you have 200 sales or $20,000 in sales in a calendar year. 

Stringer its free to open an Etsy shop and 20 cents to make a listing. Not much to worry about there. If it sells it does and if it doesnt then not much lost. 

When we used to have family get togethers when I started they would ask about my shop. I would always get "you mean online only? Oh so not like a real store?" To which I would always say "yea online only, like Ebay and Amazon" 

I had a friend working at a woodworking shop that built things for houses, stuff like the vents in the attic and around windows and some doors. He got laid off and was off work for a while. I convinced him to come see what I was doing. That was a year ago. He started out just making hairpin legs. He probably grossed more than 70 grand for the year. He will double that this year at least. And thats just him, one guy in a two car garage sized shop. He spent hardly anything to start as he had most if it already.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

CudaDude said:


> I’ve lurked around here for a couple years, but I think this is my first post. How can those of us that are very ‘small time’ protect ourselves? I’m referring to those of us who work out of a garage or small shop at home and would like to make a little income on the side of a regular full time job.
> I was watching the news a while back and saw a story about a CA lawsuit against IKEA for dressers that can potentially fall over on children. I know that becoming an LLC protects your assets outside of the business. But like I said, what about the small timers that just do this on the side?


Business insurance would help in that case. Not sure how you 100% protect yourself. I make lots of clothing racks for stores and I have my fingers crossed that none ever get pulled over on someones kid. But I have to concentrate on doing the best I can. It/s not any different than hoping you dont run over someones kid on the way to work. Dressers dont just fall over. They would have to get pulled over. But I see what you mean. A good shop policy will go pretty far with covering you on most things but a lawsuit is not winable by even large companies so you just have to have the insurance for that and hope you dont have to use it. I'm on the Etsy forums all the time and I have never seen mention of anything like that.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks for sharing all this great information! I'm floored by everyone's willingness to share on this site. I love it!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Masterjer said:


> Thanks for sharing all this great information! I'm floored by everyone's willingness to share on this site. I love it!


Thanks. Certainly there is some info I can't share but I will help all I can. Maybe there are others on here that sell there. I'm surprised ad how many woodworkers are on Etsy. But many make large complicated pieces that do not sell quickly and if they do they must be a pain to ship. That's great for them making a little extra money. But for me I have to make it in volume. 

Best advice I can give any of you is to go to Etsy.com and do some searches with key words and see the items that come up. That will give you an idea of whats out there.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks Mike


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Hey Mike - got a few more questions for you: 

1) On the promoted items where they charge $1 per day, do they take that out of your receivables or do you have to pay them directly for that? I assume the former but figured I would ask. 
2) How closely do you monitor promoted items in the event something sits there past a certain timeframe? This probably doesn't happen to you, given what you've said about your volume, but you certainly don't want something on the promoted item list for 20-30 days.
3) How many items do you typically put on the promoted item list at a time?
4) Do you always have something on the promoted items list?
5) Did you start out doing that or is that something you sort of eased into with certain items?

Ok, that's enough for now... 

Thanks again for all your help!!
David


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Sorry for the delay in getting back on here. I had a large store order I was working on. I also had an accident in the shop. I got my left thumb too close to the table saw. 

On the promoted listings they charge it to your monthly bill. That includes the 20 cents for any listings you may have added or renewed, the 3.5% for any sales plus any charges for direct checkout/payment processing. The bill is due on the 1st. However I pay mine once a week on Monday morning. The reason I do that is so I don't have a $1000 bill due at the first of the month. The reason I do it on Monday is because Monday afternoon they send a deposit for the previous week's sales. 

I don't closely monitor promoted items as I only promote my top sellers to drive people to the shop. When they look around they may buy something else. So for me it's mainly to get my stuff at the top of searches. I usually have about 4 items and it's always made to order listings. So I don't worry how long they are promoted as I will keep them there just to stay top of search. 

Etsy is all about someone finding your item. Good search terms and good tags. If you search "reclaimed wood table hairpin legs" my listing is second or third line down.


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## B&O Craftsman (Mar 2, 2016)

I've been wanting to eventually sell my things online not just at craft shows. All this information has been very helpful. My Wife is always mentioning etsy for other things but I never would had thought woodworkers use it. I'm just beginning to make videos of the process I take to make my projects. I Figured I would try YouTube first. have you ever thought of documenting your building process and uploading them to YouTube?


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

VIFmike said:


> Sorry for the delay in getting back on here. I had a large store order I was working on. I also had an accident in the shop. I got my left thumb too close to the table saw.
> 
> On the promoted listings they charge it to your monthly bill. That includes the 20 cents for any listings you may have added or renewed, the 3.5% for any sales plus any charges for direct checkout/payment processing. The bill is due on the 1st. However I pay mine once a week on Monday morning. The reason I do that is so I don't have a $1000 bill due at the first of the month. The reason I do it on Monday is because Monday afternoon they send a deposit for the previous week's sales.
> 
> ...



Hope your thumb is ok - I hate those hair-raising times! And I fully understand about the delay and appreciate the time you took to reply to my questions.

I assume you pay it electronically, not a physical check to them. And that also tells me they are flexible with how they're paid if you can do it every Monday.

So searching for "reclaimed wood table hairpin legs" shows your table on the second line... the others that show up above and below you are all 'promoted' items? I notice the three items above yours have the word 'Ad' in a small graphic in the upper left hand corner. There are also three well below yours that also have that graphic. Is that different from a 'promoted' item?

Thanks again, Mike!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

The ad means they are promoted ad items. Highest bidder for that item category goes to the top. The payment comes out of my shop payment account. From the money They have from what I sold. I pay it out of that instead of sending it from a credit card.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

The promoted items or "ads" work like this: you can choose the items you want to promote and either let Etsy automatically generate a bid for that items ad space or you can make it however much you want. As Mike was saying the highest bids get listed first in searches but you only get charged if someone clicks on your ad. It could be listed in 100 different searches but you only get billed your bid if someone clicks on it. You also can set a limit on how much you can be charged in one day. We just opened our Etsy store a few weeks ago. Still trying to get it going but we've had a few sales so far...


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

Here is an example of our promoted listings page


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

michaelpugh said:


> ...We just opened our Etsy store a few weeks ago. Still trying to get it going but we've had a few sales so far...



I can't quite make out your store name but I would like to take a look.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

We started with our signs because I knew they would be easier to ship. I put them together and my wife does the rest. 
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheWeatheredGoods?ref=hdr_shop_menu


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

michaelpugh said:


> We started with our signs because I knew they would be easier to ship. I put them together and my wife does the rest.
> https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheWeatheredGoods?ref=hdr_shop_menu


You would be surprised at the number of shops that make things that are very nice but a nightmare to ship. I used to make several things that I quit doing because they take too long to package and ship. 

Everything I make is shipping friendly.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

This is an awesome thread! Thanks very much for all of your insight and helpfulness. I have both an Etsy shop and a CustomMade shop. For whatever reason, the Etsy shop has done ZERO, NADA, NOTHING. But my CustomMade shop is just now starting to do pretty well for a part-time gig. However, CM charges a lot more (10% commission plus 2.7% + $.30 transaction fee). Still, I am getting business out of it (mostly "Rustic Wood Signs" of all things). I would love to get to even close to where you are just to be able to do this full time would be a dream come true that I've been trying to do for years. I would love to pick your brain on how to get my Etsy shop to start doing some business, though I admit I've not kept it up recently since the CM site is now providing work.

I am also figuring out what sizes and shapes are more shipping-friendly, takes some time in the seat to dial this in. For me, FedEx has been quite a bit more cost-effective than UPS. Sometimes USPS is better, but overall FedEx has been best.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Shipping for me is much much cheaper on UPS. But I ship large tables and racks. The reason is the volume discount. Once you get set up with UPS or Fedex the discount starts increasing. I can ship for about half regular retail cost. If I used Fedex more I would eventually get to the same or a close cost. I've had Fedex try to get my business but when I show them examples of my UPS costs they can't touch the price. It also has to do with what area you are in and where you ship to mostly. I ship to the East coast mostly. And that is generally NYC area about 80% of that. I also ship to the west coast. Since I am in Texas it's about the same rate. A little higher to the west but very close.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm right next door to you, Mike, so I figure my shipping costs to each coast will be similar. A very good friend of mine owns one of the local UPS stores and he's going to assist when I get ready to market my goods and creations. I'm looking forward to the process and seeing what I can do in the Etsy world. I've begun pricing boxes at ULine and managing the sizes of the items I plan to market first so that I can take advantage of easier and less expensive shipping, again, thanks to your input.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Hey Mike - I just thought about something related to Etsy... do you use a mobile app for Etsy or just your computer (or both)? If you use one, which one and how do you use it (updates only, new listings, monitoring sales, etc.)? Thanks again! David


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

Pretty sure you are talking to the other Mike and we are fairly new to etsy but I've been using the etsy sales app almost exclusively. I do use the computer some and used it when I was first setting up our shop with all of our first listings but now when I add one I usually just use the app. There are two apps. One to shop with and one to manage your shop with.












the first pic is the sell on etsy app the other is the shop etsy app.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

michaelpugh said:


> Pretty sure you are talking to the other Mike and we are fairly new to etsy but I've been using the etsy sales app almost exclusively. I do use the computer some and used it when I was first setting up our shop with all of our first listings but now when I add one I usually just use the app. There are two apps. One to shop with and one to manage your shop with.
> View attachment 223042
> View attachment 223050
> the first pic is the sell on etsy app the other is the shop etsy app.


Yes, I was asking the 'other' Mike but your response is plenty good. I didn't realize there was a selling and different buying app. I'll get the selling app and see what it's like. I'm not quite ready to start selling but I want to do my due diligence so that when I am ready all this will be behind me. 

Thanks, Mike! Btw, how are your sales on Etsy?


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

difalkner said:


> Yes, I was asking the 'other' Mike but your response is plenty good. I didn't realize there was a selling and different buying app. I'll get the selling app and see what it's like. I'm not quite ready to start selling but I want to do my due diligence so that when I am ready all this will be behind me.
> 
> Thanks, Mike! Btw, how are your sales on Etsy?



We opened our shop the first of February but didn't really have all our listings up till the middle of February. So really only been going for a month, we've had 8 sales. You really need reviews and sales to get sales lol. It's been picking up. We sold three of those 8 this weekend. I'm shipping two signs out in the morning. Hoping it keeps growing!


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

michaelpugh said:


> We opened our shop the first of February but didn't really have all our listings up till the middle of February. So really only been going for a month, we've had 8 sales. You really need reviews and sales to get sales lol. It's been picking up. We sold three of those 8 this weekend. I'm shipping two signs out in the morning. Hoping it keeps growing!


That's great! Gotta' start somewhere, right? I knew you had just opened your shop but I went back and read some threads from 2012 where some said they couldn't get any traction on Etsy. One guy said he'd been trying for weeks with few sales. Then I looked at his numbers now and he's had over 3,300 sales. Not too shabby!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

The thing about Etsy is sales breed sales. The more items you have the more views and the more items get favorited. The more favorites the more sales. The more sales the higher your items are in a search. Mine are usually top of page. So dont get discouraged by slow sales. Everyone's sales start out slow on there. My best advice is to start making small items that are easy to make and sell for a low price and sell fast. Then as sales build move into large more complex and expensive items. 

Don't forget to renew listings late Friday night or early Saturday morning. You get the most looks and favorites on Saturday and Sunday morning. Renew one or two items and it brings looks and favorites. Remember people also will favorite an item and come back later for purchase. 

This is also the slowest time of the entire year. It's even slower now that the week after Christmas. Tax time. The people who buy items like this on Etsy generally have to pay taxes and they wait till the last minute. 3 years in a row for me it's been very slow this time of year. Last year it was one sale every two or three days. This year is has been one or so a day. So dont get discouraged at slow sales right now. The first week of May it will get better and it will build. My best month is always August.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

difalkner said:


> I'm right next door to you, Mike, so I figure my shipping costs to each coast will be similar. A very good friend of mine owns one of the local UPS stores and he's going to assist when I get ready to market my goods and creations. I'm looking forward to the process and seeing what I can do in the Etsy world. I've begun pricing boxes at ULine and managing the sizes of the items I plan to market first so that I can take advantage of easier and less expensive shipping, again, thanks to your input.


UPS store is higher than having a UPS account. Try to get the area rep on the phone. You can get a pretty good rate. The discount will increase as you go.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Can you guys post a link to your shops?


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## nxtgeneration (Feb 22, 2016)

VIFmike said:


> Can you guys post a link to your shops?


www.etsy.com/shop/NorthernWoodWorx

I'm very new at this and am slowly trying to get pictures of things I've been making so I can list items. I've been making miscellaneous items for friends and family members for awhile now with no intention of selling anything but recently I decided to give etsy a try. 

Before you ask, I know the table top item is odd. I had to make a listing for someone who requested a customized table top and it ended up with a handful favorites quickly so I just left it for now. The customer also said they may have someone else interested in something very similar so I just left it for now.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

nxtgeneration said:


> www.etsy.com/shop/NorthernWoodWorx
> 
> I'm very new at this and am slowly trying to get pictures of things I've been making so I can list items. I've been making miscellaneous items for friends and family members for awhile now with no intention of selling anything but recently I decided to give etsy a try.
> 
> Before you ask, I know the table top item is odd. I had to make a listing for someone who requested a customized table top and it ended up with a handful favorites quickly so I just left it for now. The customer also said they may have someone else interested in something very similar so I just left it for now.



I like it. I sell more made to order tables than anything else. People like to choose a length, width, height and stain color. You do need more pics of the items. I try to use all 5 and take pics from several angles. That is one place I am lacking right now. A place to take good pics and good lighting. I am working on a studio for taking pics. Once I get it done I will have to re take all pics. 

Remember the more stuff you have the more likes favorites and sales. The more sales the higher you are in searches and that breeds sales.


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## nxtgeneration (Feb 22, 2016)

VIFmike said:


> I like it. I sell more made to order tables than anything else. People like to choose a length, width, height and stain color. You do need more pics of the items. I try to use all 5 and take pics from several angles. That is one place I am lacking right now. A place to take good pics and good lighting. I am working on a studio for taking pics. Once I get it done I will have to re take all pics.
> 
> Remember the more stuff you have the more likes favorites and sales. The more sales the higher you are in searches and that breeds sales.


Yes, I definitely need to work on pictures. This is something I've been trying to get figured out. I have a good quality camera but I'm struggling to find a place to get good pictures with good lighting. I do have several more items that need to be listed but I do not have any pictures at all of them. Being I have a full time job (typically 45-50hrs a week) and a puppy it has been hard to find time to get things put together. Hopefully I will get things together fairly soon.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

VIFmike said:


> Can you guys post a link to your shops?


At this point all I have is an account but no shop. We have a CNC machine coming and once I get that all set up and producing then I'll flip the switch on the Etsy shop. Some of the things I plan to build can actually done now in my shop but are way too time consuming to be profitable. I have worked out most of the CNC production steps for about 4-5 items and have another 15 or so to go but I'll get to those soon. My estimate at this point is we'll open the Etsy shop mid summer at the earliest.

Mike, that's a great tip on getting with the UPS rep. I will probably do that and then get with my friend who owns the UPS store to see what the difference is on costs.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

nxtgeneration said:


> www.etsy.com/shop/NorthernWoodWorx
> 
> I'm very new at this and am slowly trying to get pictures of things I've been making so I can list items. I've been making miscellaneous items for friends and family members for awhile now with no intention of selling anything but recently I decided to give etsy a try.
> 
> Before you ask, I know the table top item is odd. I had to make a listing for someone who requested a customized table top and it ended up with a handful favorites quickly so I just left it for now. The customer also said they may have someone else interested in something very similar so I just left it for now.


I have been getting lots of requests for round tables. I will send them a link to your shop if you are OK with that.


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## nxtgeneration (Feb 22, 2016)

VIFmike said:


> I have been getting lots of requests for round tables. I will send them a link to your shop if you are OK with that.


Yes that would be absolutely ok with me.

Thanks for the help!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I also have another tip for you guys thinking of selling on Etsy. If you plan on making tables there are many other shops on there that sell table legs in all shapes and sizes. Plus many people want to buy just the table top and plan on using their own legs. Just a though. I have a listing for just table tops and I sell one or two a week.


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## hubaseball02 (Nov 24, 2007)

Mike, I have looked into putting items on Etsy so I am glad that you started this thread. I have enjoyed reading all of your comments and comments from the other members. When you first started listing items on Etsy how many items did you start with? I have read a few other places that a seller should have at least 30 to 60 items up in their store when they open up.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

hubaseball02 said:


> Mike, I have looked into putting items on Etsy so I am glad that you started this thread. I have enjoyed reading all of your comments and comments from the other members. When you first started listing items on Etsy how many items did you start with? I have read a few other places that a seller should have at least 30 to 60 items up in their store when they open up.


Separate items or inventory of a few items? If it's separate items that's a pretty high minimum starting point and a lot of sales speculation given that you don't yet know what will sell on Etsy. My guess is you're talking about total inventory of a handful of items.


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## hubaseball02 (Nov 24, 2007)

difalkner said:


> Separate items or inventory of a few items? If it's separate items that's a pretty high minimum starting point and a lot of sales speculation given that you don't yet know what will sell on Etsy. My guess is you're talking about the total inventory of a handful of items.


difalkner, I think you are correct in that what I was reading was referring to having multiple listings of a few different things not necessarily 30-50 different items.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

hubaseball02 said:


> difalkner, I think you are correct in that what I was reading was referring to having multiple listings of a few different things not necessarily 30-50 different items.


Wouldn't *that *be an offering, though!! That would be like a mini Wal-Mart.


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## gporpora (Nov 10, 2013)

My hesitation to try something like Etsy has always been the shipping part. I make child growth rulers out of 3/4" 8x8 lumber (cut down to 6 1/2" length). I built one for a customer who wanted to ship it to her son in Nevada. She went to the Fed Ex store and they wanted $60.00 to pack and ship it. That was more than the ruler cost. I see these on Etsy with $20 shipping costs and I don't understand how they can do that. Any advice?


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

hubaseball02 said:


> Mike, I have looked into putting items on Etsy so I am glad that you started this thread. I have enjoyed reading all of your comments and comments from the other members. When you first started listing items on Etsy how many items did you start with? I have read a few other places that a seller should have at least 30 to 60 items up in their store when they open up.


 I started with two items. I realistically should have started with about 10 to 12. My items being large I need fewer to list. Many shops have hundreds of items but when I look at someone's page I rarely get past the second page. There are 24 items per page so if you are starting a shop I would say enough to fill a full page. But you could open the shop with as little as 6 to 10 and at least start getting looks and favorites.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

gporpora said:


> My hesitation to try something like Etsy has always been the shipping part. I make child growth rulers out of 3/4" 8x8 lumber (cut down to 6 1/2" length). I built one for a customer who wanted to ship it to her son in Nevada. She went to the Fed Ex store and they wanted $60.00 to pack and ship it. That was more than the ruler cost. I see these on Etsy with $20 shipping costs and I don't understand how they can do that. Any advice?


Shipping is really not expensive. You go to a place like Fedex store or UPS store and they are paying for that store and those employees. You need to package it yourself and ship it yourself. Get your boxes from Uline and have it picked up. Easy. 

I can ship a table that has a box size of 50" long, 21" wide and 6" deep weighing 50lbs to the east coast or west coast from Texas (Dallas area) for about $40. Yes I have a very good rate based on volume. It would cost almost double that at the UPS store. 

Open a UPS and/or a Fedex account and see what the rate is. You can click the box when making the label and they will come get it. I have a daily pickup at 5pm that costs $5 per day. I spend $500 to $900 a week on shipping. But I ship 25 to 30 packages a week.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

By the way this is the link to my shop:

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Vintagesteelandwood


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

As you can see I only make a few different items. But I do offer In stock and also made to order in those and several variations in length, etc. I used to make lots more but some things are just not profitable.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Let me add another tip: 

Open an Etsy account, maybe just a buyer account just so you can save things. Then do the following:

Search the kind of items you plan on selling. Then favorite the shop and as you see items in their shop you like favorite those items. When you log in each day Etsy will show you updates from those shops. By that I mean anytime they sell and re list a item it shows in your daily feed. If they post a new item it shows in your feed. Then you can keep tabs on what they are selling without having to search each shop. 

Also go to those shops pages and click "sales" along the left menu. It shows every item they have sold since opening. You can look at mine at the last page and work your way backward to see every single item I have sold.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

VIFmike said:


> Open a UPS and/or a Fedex account and see what the rate is. You can click the box when making the label and they will come get it. I have a daily pickup at 5pm that costs $5 per day. I spend $500 to $900 a week on shipping. But I ship 25 to 30 packages a week.


Mike, my goal is to equal that in weekly shipments. My items will be a little smaller so maybe I'll do a higher quantity - we'll see later this year.

It doesn't cost anything to open a UPS account, does it? I could probably click through the steps and see for myself but since I am not ready to begin shipping I thought I would ask.

You're not affected by all this rain and flooding, are you? We have flood warnings again in northwest Louisiana and I know south of you they've had major issues.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Mike, my goal is to equal that in weekly shipments. My items will be a little smaller so maybe I'll do a higher quantity - we'll see later this year.
> 
> It doesn't cost anything to open a UPS account, does it? I could probably click through the steps and see for myself but since I am not ready to begin shipping I thought I would ask.
> 
> You're not affected by all this rain and flooding, are you? We have flood warnings again in northwest Louisiana and I know south of you they've had major issues.


 I do not think it costs anything to open a UPS account. An Etsy account is also free.

I am not affected by the flooding other than rain water runs through my shop floor out where I do glue ups. Makes a mess but later this year we are adding 4" of concrete on top of the drive we have now. Plus a french drain and some other things.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Tip for the day:

Shipping large items. I try to make all my items shipping friendly. If they are not I do not make them. 

For example I do mot make a table longer than 59" because UPS starts charging much more over that length. Plus sometimes after that length the item has to be handled by hand and gets thrown. I also do that because of shipping boxes. Uline sells them in many sizes but none that long with a 20" width. 

The 20" width maximum for me (actually 19.75") is because my planer is a 20" and also Uline sells boxes in 20" widths in many sizes. I also sell tables in lengths from 30" to 59" in one inch increments. So to ship a table that is 46" for example I use two boxes. I buy two popular sizes, 20"x30"x6" and 20"x20"x6" I cut the end out of both boxes and then cut one down to the length I need. I use the extra cardboard from the ends inside the box around the ends of the tables. I also add a 5" strip inside the perimeter of the box. Then on the outside I use a 6" strip all the way around. This makes 3 layers of cardboard on the sides and top and bottom of the box and 4 layers in the ends. 

I have had less than 10 incidents of damage out of 2649 sales. I can also post pics of how we box a table if anyone is interested. It would apply to anything you need to ship really.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

VIFmike said:


> Tip for the day:
> 
> Shipping large items. I try to make all my items shipping friendly. If they are not I do not make them.
> 
> ...


Please do, Mike - thanks!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I'll do that today. In the mean time let me add that it takes a bunch of extra cardboard to package things so we buy it in sheets. We used to buy 20"x30" sheets and use them for table legs, then 20"x20" for short legs and also 24"x48" for inside boxes. Each of those sizes is about 1.25 to 1.50 each. But now we just buy 40"x48" sheets and cut them on the table saw. The large sheets cost about the same price. But I can get 3 of the 20"x30" sheets off one 40"x48"

Yes Uline is expensive. But they deliver and they have more items than anyone else. I can also go to their location and pick stuff up. I generally spend about $350 a week at Uline. But I also buy kraft paper for stuffing boxes, the boxes in several sizes, the pads, tape etc.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

VIFmike said:


> Can you guys post a link to your shops?



https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheWeatheredGoods?ref=search_shop_redirect

In our first month and half or so we had 14 sales and 10 5 star reviews and it seemed to be picking up. We were thinking this is gonna go. But suddenly we haven't had a sale in at least two weeks. We've had several items favorited and our shop favorited a few times but no sales. So discouraging. I don't know why it suddenly stopped....


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

michaelpugh said:


> https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheWeatheredGoods?ref=search_shop_redirect
> 
> In our first month and half or so we had 14 sales and 10 5 star reviews and it seemed to be picking up. We were thinking this is gonna go. But suddenly we haven't had a sale in at least two weeks. We've had several items favorited and our shop favorited a few times but no sales. So discouraging. I don't know why it suddenly stopped....


Maybe it will pick back up now that tax season is over. The signs are nice, btw.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

difalkner said:


> Maybe it will pick back up now that tax season is over. The signs are nice, btw.



Thanks! Hopefully it will.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Last year at tax time it slowed down to one order every two or three days for me. Then this year it slowed to one a day. I remember last year looking back at the previous year's orders to see how it went. I remember it being slow then as well. So for me that's three years in a row that it has slowed to almost dead at tax time. I remember last year it picked back up starting with the first week in May and was back to normal by the end of May. So don't get discouraged.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Well here are the pics from boxing some pieces. As I said above I make many different lengths so no possible way to get and stock that many different length boxes. So the best option I have found is to get 20x20x6 and 30x20x6 and put them together to get the lengths I need. I also package all the small pieces with cardboard and/or brown kraft paper. On clothing racks I wrap the pipes in the kraft paper and small pipes, fittings, casters and screws I put into regular paper lunch bags. As you can see in the second pic I use the box ends to wrap the ends of the table or clothing rack boards. I also buy 40x48 cardboard pads and cut them into strips and pads for the table legs.

For the table legs you can see I make the end plates a triangle which makes them much easier to ship. I am not sure how other people who make table legs with that big L shaped bracket actually ship them. To box the desk legs (28&1/2" long) I simply cut a cardboard pad to 18x30 inches. I fold them on the table in the pics. You may be able to see the lines on the table. I have lines drawn every inch across the table so I dont have to measure. I can easily bend the cardboard at the correct widths and bend/cut easily. 

I can box any table I make in any length by simply stocking two box sizes. For clothing racks I only need one box size.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Your packaging looks very efficient and well thought out, Mike. Matter of fact, your entire process follows best practices and that is reflected by your increase in sales - good job!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Your packaging looks very efficient and well thought out, Mike. Matter of fact, your entire process follows best practices and that is reflected by your increase in sales - good job!


Well the packaging has come from years of working out the best, most efficient and cost effective system. I am constantly tweaking it. Just this week I started buying freezer paper from Uline instead of buying it at Walmart. I was getting the 18" wide x 100 ft long box at Walmart for $6.47 I use it on top of the tables or clothing rack decks to keep the cardboard from sticking to the dry but not cured lacquer. The issue there was that almost all my tables are 20" wide so I would have to use two strips to cover a table. 

Now I get the 24"x1100 ft roll from Uline for $80. I have yet to see how my shipping guy likes it but I bet it works better so it saves a little time as it's on a roll mounted to a cutter so all he has to to is pull it out and tear it. Plus it should save because even though it costs a penny more per foot we are now using half what we were in total ft. 

Same for the 40"x48" pads. They cost $1.33 each where the 20x30 cost 99 cents each. I get three out of a 40x48 and still have a strip left. Plus I would still have to cut the 20x30 down to 18x30 for use on table legs. I use the 4" strips inside boxes.


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## MatthewEOD (Dec 6, 2013)

Sounds like a well oiled machine you have going Mike.


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## Knottynuffwood (Apr 24, 2016)

Hey there. I am completely new to Etsy. Just started making and selling wooden spool tables, different variations such as original spool form, spool top with pipe legs and spool top with custom wooden legs. We are getting a good amount of views and favorites but no buyers.... One of our main concerns is shipping and how extremely high the prices to ship out product are. Do you have and suggestions on shipping and taking our business from just being liked to actually being profitable. Thanks!


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## Knottynuffwood (Apr 24, 2016)

Our shop is www.etsy.com/shop/Knottynuffwood


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

MatthewEOD said:


> Sounds like a well oiled machine you have going Mike.


Every time I think that I learn something new that could have saved me time or money earlier. I had no old school woodworker to help me when I started. I just recently met the guy down the street who had a cabinet shop. But you can tell that just from looking at my sales. 

As I was saying you can look at any shop's sales and start at the last page and work forward and see everything they sold from day one. You can see in mine that I started with easy stuff and progressed to stuff that's still easy but much quicker to make and easier to ship. 

I still learn all the time. But I do need this to pay the bills and payroll for me and my kids.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Knottynuffwood said:


> Hey there. I am completely new to Etsy. Just started making and selling wooden spool tables, different variations such as original spool form, spool top with pipe legs and spool top with custom wooden legs. We are getting a good amount of views and favorites but no buyers.... One of our main concerns is shipping and how extremely high the prices to ship out product are. Do you have and suggestions on shipping and taking our business from just being liked to actually being profitable. Thanks!


Do the items come apart? It seems like the cost would be high to ship those no matter the carrier. UPS has dimensional size/weight rules. Once you get over those it's expensive. But they also have volume pricing so the more you ship the better your rate gets. I assume those would ship freight on a pallet unless some are small enough to box. 

To get sales you have to have views and favorites. Views, favorites and sales get your stuff closer to the top in searches. Sales will do that faster than anything. Key words will also help with that. 

Just looking at one of your round coffee tables with pipe legs I would think good key words are: Round coffee table, spool coffee table, pipe legs, pipe legs table, coffee table, reclaimed wood table, reclaimed wood, spool, steel legs, industrial table, etc etc etc

Try to use all 13 key words for the item and all 13 for the materials. In the materials you can add item words like Coffee table or pipe legs etc. 

Key words are the key to getting looks and "clicks" and favorites. People will favorite an item to find it later to buy it. 

So best advice to you without any sales is to make some small items. Maybe some end tables or some other small items and price them low to start getting sales. Then as you build sales the items you have will be placed higher in the listings.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

VIFmike said:


> Just looking at one of your round coffee tables with pipe legs I would think good key words are: Round coffee table, spool coffee table, pipe legs, pipe legs table, coffee table, reclaimed wood table, reclaimed wood, spool, steel legs, industrial table, etc etc etc
> 
> Try to use all 13 key words for the item and all 13 for the materials. In the materials you can add item words like Coffee table or pipe legs etc.
> 
> Key words are the key to getting looks and "clicks" and favorites. People will favorite an item to find it later to buy it.


So the 'key' words for item and materials are two different lists, and that's cool. And since I have yet to set up my shop I haven't gone through this yet but from what you've suggested it appears the key word is whatever is between the commas, correct? So 'reclaimed wood table' counts as one word? That's great, actually, if I am interpreting what you're saying here, Mike. Also, if that's the case would you need the words 'coffee table' by itself since 'round coffee table' is already mentioned? Or does the Etsy search look for the entire phrase (that's between commas)? I'm nitpicking so I can get it right when I set my shop up.

Thanks!
David


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Yes you can have 13 key words for the item description and 13 for the materials. I as most people will use all combinations of the words as you are trying to exactly match what someone is typing in a search. More key words means more matches. I will screen shot the page. Here is the screen shot of my listing for made to order tables.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

That helps a lot, Mike. And you get to do that for each item you produce, right?


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

difalkner said:


> That helps a lot, Mike. And you get to do that for each item you produce, right?


Each listing. On made to order I can add the lengths and a price for each and a qty of whatever number and as they sell the listing stays up. When it gets down to a few I just increase the number. 

On a single unique item you have to make a new listing. On an in stock table for example I have them in 3 different lengths and 3 or 4 different colors. I have a listing for each length and each color of that length. I take 4 pics of the item from face on 3/4 angle high angle end and the 5th pic is from above of the actual piece for the listing. So when it sells I just have to change the last pic since the one that is replacing it is the same length width height and stain color. Then the customer knows what the actual table looks like. 

I take the last pic on a bucket so I dont have to assemble it. Take a look at this listing for an ebony in stock table. 
https://www.etsy.com/listing/260975...imed-wood-hairpin-legs?ref=shop_home_listings

The last pic with the number is of the actual piece for the listing. The qty is 1. so when it sells it shows sold out. When I make the next one I just place the table top on the bucket and take the pic and update the listing. 

If you look at the numbers you will see how many of each one I have sold. I started with Jacobean and Espresso so those are the highest ones.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

To follow up on that last post I have more details. I have the in stock tables/desks in 39" 49" and 59" and in Jacobean, Espresso, Ebony and Weathered Oak. I also have coffee tables in those same lengths and stains. I will do an occasional one in a different color but those are the main ones. 

The reason they are 39" 49" and 59" is because of the boxes we talked about earlier. To make the box for the 39" I just put together two 20"x20"x6" boxes. To do the 49" I put together a 20"x20"x6" and a 20"x30"x6" and for the 59" it's two 20"x30"x6"

Makes it easy to package basically. I also have been making coffee tables much longer than desks but the desks sell about 3 to 1 vs coffee tables. I also do not have to assemble any tables because I use a jig to mark and pre drill the holes for the legs.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

VIFmike said:


> The last pic with the number is of the actual piece for the listing. The qty is 1. so when it sells it shows sold out. When I make the next one I just place the table top on the bucket and take the pic and update the listing.


That seems like a very good way to show the exact piece being offered yet keep your workload to a minimum. And at the volume you're doing that's a good thing. 

All the tips you've given are very much appreciated, Mike!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

The next subject would like to bring up again is shipping. I offered some tips earlier that apply to larger items but we really didn't get into the actual shipping part too much. I saw a question in the forum on Etsy about shipping furniture. I opened it and the OP was asking about how to package and ship their first large piece. The replies were all close to the same. "go to an appliance store and ask them for large boxes" "go to staples, they sell large boxes" " go to xyz store and ask them to save the large boxes" etc etc. The I see someone say to ship it Greyhound as they are the cheapest. I see one saying Fedex is cheaper than UPS etc. Then some more saying to go to the post office as they are cheaper. 

I also saw another post complaining that Fedex charged $3 per package to pick up. That it was crazy and they would rather just take their packages to the post office. 

I commented that Greyhound is not cheaper unless you work for free or your time is worth nothing. You really going to load the large item in your car, drive to the place whether its Greyhound, Fedex, UPS or USPS, unload it, wait in line, make the transaction then drive home? Really? How is that cheaper? Time is money. If you are operating a business time really is money. 

I pay $5 a day for a daily pickup. So realistically it's cheaper than me having to drive a package to the end of my street a block away even if I have just one package. 

Whether Fedex, UPS or USPS is cheaper depends on the size and weight of the item, where its going to and from and what rate scale you are on. People who ship with Fedex can beat my rate any day because I hardly ever use them. But I can get a package shipped UPS for about half what it costs you at the UPS store. 

Boxes are the same thing. Driving somewhere to get them then driving home. Did you save any money?? Most likely you have to cut the box to make it right anyway. Plus most box places that deliver charge less than $2 per box delivered. Plus who wants to buy an item for $100 or more and receive it in a box marked "BANANAS"

Your package is the first thing the customer sees. It needs to look like you took care to make sure it was packaged well.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Spoken like a true and successful business man!


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Mike, you mentioned that UPS charges you $5 per day for pickup - do they pick up every day M-F and do you get charged the $5 even on the rare occasion you don't have anything to ship that day?


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Mike, I'll sit down and read through the responses tonight, so sorry if I'm holding back the class...but really wanted to ask about over all start up and running cost. In more of a "per piece" context. Since Anyone with my small shop and skill set won't do large volume, my numbers would never meet yours. But for your "average" piece, what percentage do you actually get in your pocket after the deal is closed? 

I have been milling all the good lumber I can get my hands on this past year with an alaskan mill and it's getting close to being usable. Oak, cherry, maple, western cedar. I'm going to try and focus on higher dollar items like big slab tables and adirondack furniture sets, over things like cutting boards or smaller items. But I'm undecided about going the SMALL BUSINESSMAN route, or just trying to sell in my local circle to friends, family, facebook and craigslist. I'm a union electrician and I'm happy with my work so not at all interested in making this my living, but saving up cash for a down payment on my first house has me VERY motivated to make some sales.

What was your tipping point for making that decision? 

I know, Ramble ramble. Thank you for putting this post up! I've been dying to ask someone all of this!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Mike, you mentioned that UPS charges you $5 per day for pickup - do they pick up every day M-F and do you get charged the $5 even on the rare occasion you don't have anything to ship that day?


Yes $5 per day during the week M-F only. If I don't have anything it's still $5.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

jessesnowden said:


> Mike, I'll sit down and read through the responses tonight, so sorry if I'm holding back the class...but really wanted to ask about over all start up and running cost. In more of a "per piece" context. Since Anyone with my small shop and skill set won't do large volume, my numbers would never meet yours. But for your "average" piece, what percentage do you actually get in your pocket after the deal is closed?
> 
> I have been milling all the good lumber I can get my hands on this past year with an alaskan mill and it's getting close to being usable. Oak, cherry, maple, western cedar. I'm going to try and focus on higher dollar items like big slab tables and adirondack furniture sets, over things like cutting boards or smaller items. But I'm undecided about going the SMALL BUSINESSMAN route, or just trying to sell in my local circle to friends, family, facebook and craigslist. I'm a union electrician and I'm happy with my work so not at all interested in making this my living, but saving up cash for a down payment on my first house has me VERY motivated to make some sales.
> 
> ...


Well when it comes down to it at the end of the year I want to show ZERO profit. Any profit I have to pay tax on about 30% or more. So I try to spend as much of it as I can on the building, the house, tools, equipment etc. 

But as a woodworker any of you should be able to guess about what profit there is per piece. Take a small piece for example like my 39" In Stock tables. I sell them for $162 plus shipping. 

It takes 1 and a third 2x6x10' I cut them into 40" long pieces, plane both sides a little, cut on the table saw, glue up, then plane again, sand, putty, sand stain clear. You all should know what a 10' 2x6 costs. The steel rod costs about $7 a stick currently. It takes one to make a set of hairpin legs and 4 end mount plates. The only reason I say all this is that it's easy to figure the cost for anyone that knows the materials. So I have about $20 in materials and about an hour labor. I am able to sell them so cheap because I work from home. 

Larger ones have only slightly more cost in material but far more in price per piece. 

My tipping point of when to go full time was when I was using all my spare time and weekends building pieces. I should have quit 6 months before I actually did.


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

You have definitely got things figured out my man. The whole self employed tax situation is really what I'm most weary of. So when you work from home, there is a long list of things that become tax write-offs? Is that something you learned from a financial advisor of some sort or just from documents provided by the IRS?


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

jessesnowden said:


> You have definitely got things figured out my man. The whole self employed tax situation is really what I'm most weary of. So when you work from home, there is a long list of things that become tax write-offs? Is that something you learned from a financial advisor of some sort or just from documents provided by the IRS?


The smartest thing I did was incorporate as an S corp. It protects me and my house in case I fail. I also got a PEO. They do my payroll, taxes, SS, Medicare etc. All I do is go to their website and type in the hours for each employee including myself. They take all the taxes SS medicare unemployment workers comp etc out and send it on. We all get a paycheck deposited on Friday just like anyone else and with all that already taken out and sent in. I file a regular tax return for myself. 

The deductions I have learned through doing taxes before I was incorporated. I can write off any of the house I use for business. Since I built a building and use some of the house for the business I am now using about half the total square footage for the business. so the business pays half the house payment, half the electricity and half the cable/internet. I also write off mileage, materials etc. At some point it will have to level off. I am pretty much done adding onto the house and building but I still need more work inside. 

I also need to upgrade machines like my planer. I need a larger jointer, better dust collection etc etc etc. Plus I am driving a 26 year old truck for my work truck. So I have plenty of things to spend the shop money on.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Hey who on here has an Etsy shop and makes round tables? I have a customer asking about one. I would like to send them your way. Thanks


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## nxtgeneration (Feb 22, 2016)

Sorry Mike - I didn't see this until now. Thanks for getting a hold of me.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Not sure what to charge for my under mattress tables.. Legs are oak, top is poplar (although it could be oak as well )








Currently my material cost is a bit high buying lumber at full retail, but I can bring that down later.
Several people think $50-65 is too high saying people would just make their own, but I don't buy that argument or they would all just make their own cars too..
Anyway, does $65 seem too high? Too low?. They take me a few hours to make so they're not real time consuming and of course the more I make the faster I can get..
Any ideas of what they might sell for on Edsy?

Thanks


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

You may not be asking for all of this, but here is what I feel needs to be considered before we all just throw out a price for you to go with.

First off, you need to come up with your Standard Shop Rate, which is a rate based on a number of things. This needs to include all your overhead expenses...salary, utilities, rent/mortgage, consumable supplies, etc, etc. After that, you need to apply that rate to what you are making. Then, you need to add in your Cost of Goods Sold (those items that go directly into the item you are making). That is the lumber, fasteners, adhesive, stain, finish, etc. Beyond that, you need to account for excess, typically applied as some percentage above the COGS. Add all this together and you can then arrive at an appropriate selling price. Even further, your geographic location has a lot to do with what you can charge too. You may find that after you have done all this, it may not make sense for you to make it at all. If you want to pursue a given thing and it is currently not worth making, you have to build it faster, cheaper or both.

It does not matter if this is part time or full time, you should charge an appropriate amount with all of this being considered. If you say, "Well this is just for some extra money, I don't need to charge that much." What about those of us that are working this full time. if you undercut someone else just because you are part time, this creates a false value for a given thing and hurts the industry as a whole.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

*THANK YOU ChiknNutz !!!!*

THANKS!!! A GREAT post !!! Nope I couldn't shout that one loud enough. Your facts are much needed, I've dealt with the part-time mentality for years from others that DON"T understand they cut true values of business actual costs. I've done the woodcrafts in my beginning 32 yrs ago....then the retired mom and pops or others whoms spouse actually made the bread and butter with health insurance started flooding the market with products that had zero to very little profit BUT created false values of true price....so I just change trades into carpentry and built a quality business....BUT there's still a lot enter that field because they had a hammer and skilsaw....they just perceive it's extra money not how it hurts the ones supporting a true business and the families it supports also. I've not mentioned some make GREAT products....their just not priced with actual facts of costs.

Again THANKS!!!!!

Sorry Mike didn't mean to hijack your original post BUT it will effect your business in time in some form.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

allpurpose said:


> Not sure what to charge for my under mattress tables.. Legs are oak, top is poplar (although it could be oak as well )
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would say the cost needs to be higher than the $50 to $60 range. Do you plan to stain and clear them? Offer a choice of stain colors? Different heights? These are all factors in price. The thing about Etsy is it costs you 20 cents to post it for sale. If it sells then great.

Most of my made to order items a customer can choose length, width, height, leg style and stain color. No other Etsy shop making like items has all those choices. Some offer one or two of those. But even those that do only offer a small number of choices. 

I think you can sell those, especially now as dorm furniture. If you add dorm furniture to the key words or tags it will help. I am developing a small table with short legs to be used as a lap desk in a dorm. Now you can buy a cheap one online but not a nice custom made one that is your choice of length, width, height and stain color and legs choices.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Tennessee Tim said:


> THANKS!!! A GREAT post !!! Nope I couldn't shout that one loud enough. Your facts are much needed, I've dealt with the part-time mentality for years from others that DON"T understand they cut true values of business actual costs. I've done the woodcrafts in my beginning 32 yrs ago....then the retired mom and pops or others whoms spouse actually made the bread and butter with health insurance started flooding the market with products that had zero to very little profit BUT created false values of true price....so I just change trades into carpentry and built a quality business....BUT there's still a lot enter that field because they had a hammer and skilsaw....they just perceive it's extra money not how it hurts the ones supporting a true business and the families it supports also. I've not mentioned some make GREAT products....their just not priced with actual facts of costs.
> 
> Again THANKS!!!!!
> 
> Sorry Mike didn't mean to hijack your original post BUT it will effect your business in time in some form.


This is all right on the money for sure. If I were not doing this from my home shop I would have a much harder time at it. As it is now I get to use income that would go to rent on a building as funds for tools etc. It allows me to be a little less on price than someone else with the same item. Not much but that and the aforementioned choices and I make a living at it. 

Some of my items such as my racks are priced higher than other ones of the same or similar dimensions. But when you look into the details you see mine is a better choice. Like for example the base on mine is wider at 14" and thus far more stable. The competition has to use a 2x12 and it's just too narrow to be stable. Plus they use 1/2" pipe and fittings from the hardware store. black dirty ugly and I use 3/4" from a plumbing supply that has a nice natural iron gray color and much nicer fittings. Here is a pic of the difference in their fittings and mine. Both of these are 3/4" and in flanges 3/4" is much larger in diameter than the 1/2" ones. Plus mine (on the right) is thicker and nicer. 

Other examples on racks are the edges and corners. I bevel mine and round the corners. Not sure why anyone else does not. But they are buying yellow pine, as that's all they can get in a 2x12 and just staining it. It's amazing that they sell any at all. And I will tell you the reason they do. Lead time. They have a short lead time and I have mine at 4 to 6 weeks. There is no other explanation.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

allpurpose said:


> Not sure what to charge for my under mattress tables.. Legs are oak, top is poplar (although it could be oak as well )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me also say that I used to make a similar item that was for the living room with 1" square tube base and a wood top. My neighbor saw it and asked me to make him two of them. Problem was I never figured out how to make it easy to ship. Same as all wood benches. 

There are over a dozen items I could make and sell but I don't because it takes away from the stuff I am making now. 

But if you had several smaller items in your shop to start with that will build business faster. More items in the shop the more views you get. here in just a bit I will post links to some example shops and show you how they make money.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

Tennessee Tim said:


> THANKS!!! A GREAT post !!! Nope I couldn't shout that one loud enough. Your facts are much needed, I've dealt with the part-time mentality for years from others that DON"T understand they cut true values of business actual costs. I've done the woodcrafts in my beginning 32 yrs ago....then the retired mom and pops or others whoms spouse actually made the bread and butter with health insurance started flooding the market with products that had zero to very little profit BUT created false values of true price....so I just change trades into carpentry and built a quality business....BUT there's still a lot enter that field because they had a hammer and skilsaw....they just perceive it's extra money not how it hurts the ones supporting a true business and the families it supports also. I've not mentioned some make GREAT products....their just not priced with actual facts of costs.
> 
> Again THANKS!!!!!
> 
> Sorry Mike didn't mean to hijack your original post BUT it will effect your business in time in some form.


I learned this when I had a sign-making business from 2003-2010. This factor was very important to me, so much so that I developed a sign-pricing program that I built into a side business of its own (first started as an Excel spreadsheet, then made a standalone Access database out of it). I then sold that application to a former customer of the software a couple years ago who wanted to take it to another level of maturation.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm definitely not trying to undercut anyone. That's not good business unless those you're undercutting are just ripping customers off..
On one hand I'm not planning to go full time at this because my time is limited as well as having crap legs that don't like standing up all day, but on the other hand I don't want to just be wasting my time barely eeking by. I made a living barely eeking by before..it's no fun..
So space and time are limited so I have to make the most with both. 
Staining and finishing may be an issue as well.. I HATE brushing and have spraying skills from years of doing that for a living, but space comes into play there so I might need to figure a space for that free of airborne dust, etc.. 
So much to think about..geez..and elderly people to take care of...


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

Ok, here are 4 shops that have just flat copied my stuff. Two of them, Edna Faye Creations and Urban Farmhouse Group I think are friends. They seem to have the same items all the time and both shops are close to each other in location. 

https://www.etsy.com/shop/UrbanFarmhouseGroup?ref=l2-shopheader-name

https://www.etsy.com/shop/pennylanewhitneyj?ref=l2-shopheader-name

https://www.etsy.com/shop/EdnaFayeCreations?ref=l2-shopheader-name

https://www.etsy.com/shop/MaverickIndustrial?ref=l2-shopheader-name

At first it bothered me but now I know there is not much I can do about it except make better pieces. One shop that carries all the pipes and fittings pieces I tried a test. I copied every single item in that shop. I made mine from 3/4" pieces (theirs are 1/2") and I waited and post about 30 items all at once. From that day until I took the listings down that shop did not get one sale. It was a tip of the hat to that shop that I can do what you do but you can't do what I do. 

Now that being said take a look at those shops. I bet any of you guys can see many of those items you can make and sell. Maybe some of them you can make better. And you don't have to sell them cheaper. If you have better pieces and better pics you can get more. But they all do have something in common that helps sell on Etsy. That is many pieces to look at. Shops that just have a few pieces do not make a lot of sales. 

Here is my buddy's shop: 
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TimberFireandIron?ref=l2-shopheader-name

he is making a living at it just selling these few items. I keep telling him he will be covered up if he just makes and lists some more pieces.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

allpurpose said:


> I'm definitely not trying to undercut anyone. That's not good business unless those you're undercutting are just ripping customers off..
> On one hand I'm not planning to go full time at this because my time is limited as well as having crap legs that don't like standing up all day, but on the other hand I don't want to just be wasting my time barely eeking by. I made a living barely eeking by before..it's no fun..
> So space and time are limited so I have to make the most with both.
> Staining and finishing may be an issue as well.. I HATE brushing and have spraying skills from years of doing that for a living, but space comes into play there so I might need to figure a space for that free of airborne dust, etc..
> So much to think about..geez..and elderly people to take care of...


I use stain pads on my pieces and as soon as I get it on I wipe the excess off with a rag. It shows more of the grain that way. I also use clear brushing lacquer and thin it and spray it. dry time is less than 30 minutes per coat most of the year.


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## nxtgeneration (Feb 22, 2016)

How is everyone's selling going? Like Mike had said at one point, it seems like there will be a slow time, followed by a busy time. The last couple weeks have been busier for me but last month was real slow. I have been making a lot of floating shelves, to the point that I need to refine my processes to speed up the process. Shipping is also another animal. In the beginning I really didn't think I'd sell much so I made one listing for the floating shelves, as time has gone I've added sizes, some at the request of customers and some to just provide a wide range of sizes. Well as it sits now my one shelf listing ranges from 18" to 60". You can imagine that shipping costs vary greatly in that range so I have a dilemma. As I understand, the more views/favorites/sales a listing gets, the higher up in searches it shows up. Ideally I would split the shelving listing up so that the person ordering small shelves doesn't overpay for shipping and the person ordering large shelves doesn't underpay but I'm concerned that if I change my listing I'll lose the "priority" in searches. Is this true or did I dream it up?

Link to my shop: https://www.etsy.com/shop/NorthernWoodWorx
Still need to get more things listed and improve on photos.


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## michaelpugh (Dec 31, 2013)

Not sure about the listings. It's a mystery to me also. I'm beginning to wonder if they don't change the listings up every so often. We went all month last month without one sale. Then had 11 in a week. I was going to fedex everyday. It slowed back down but we had another sale today. Wish I knew how it worked...
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheWeatheredGoods?ref=search_shop_redirect


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

michaelpugh said:


> Not sure about the listings. It's a mystery to me also. I'm beginning to wonder if they don't change the listings up every so often. We went all month last month without one sale. Then had 11 in a week. I was going to fedex everyday. It slowed back down but we had another sale today. Wish I knew how it worked...
> https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheWeatheredGoods?ref=search_shop_redirect


You should try changing up your titles. If you have two listings for the same item have one the way you do it now and change the other one and see what gets more clicks and favorites. Plus you need to have your tags at the bottom match the title. For example let's take one of your listings "16&1/2"x43" 2 Color Reclaimed Wood Sign - farmhouse sign - farm sign - distressed - large wood signs" 

When a customer is searching its more than 50% of the time they are using Google on a mobile device. so their device will capitalize the first letter and any letter after a period. Plus they are not likely to search using that exact size as their first words in the search. So already you are at a disadvantage to someone else using the first word as "Sign" or "Wood sign"

I would suggest a title like "Sign, wood sign, reclaimed wood, farmhouse signs" It's obviously big so I would not put the size in the listing. I do put size in some of my desk listings because I am trying to see if it makes a difference testing two different listings. 

I would also suggest using commas instead of dashes. Also capitalize the first letter of the first word and no other words unless they are supposed to be capitalized. Plus at the bottom where the tags are use the same tags with the same punctuation as the title. Do two listings and see if it helps. Your description looks fine to me.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

nxtgeneration said:


> How is everyone's selling going? Like Mike had said at one point, it seems like there will be a slow time, followed by a busy time. The last couple weeks have been busier for me but last month was real slow. I have been making a lot of floating shelves, to the point that I need to refine my processes to speed up the process. Shipping is also another animal. In the beginning I really didn't think I'd sell much so I made one listing for the floating shelves, as time has gone I've added sizes, some at the request of customers and some to just provide a wide range of sizes. Well as it sits now my one shelf listing ranges from 18" to 60". You can imagine that shipping costs vary greatly in that range so I have a dilemma. As I understand, the more views/favorites/sales a listing gets, the higher up in searches it shows up. Ideally I would split the shelving listing up so that the person ordering small shelves doesn't overpay for shipping and the person ordering large shelves doesn't underpay but I'm concerned that if I change my listing I'll lose the "priority" in searches. Is this true or did I dream it up?
> 
> Link to my shop: https://www.etsy.com/shop/NorthernWoodWorx
> Still need to get more things listed and improve on photos.


On your listings I would also suggest the same as I told him. Change the title and do two exact same items. One the way you do now and one the other way. Let's use your first listing as an example. 

"Rustic Antler Bottle Opener, Bar Ware, Whitetail Deer" 

If I were doing that listing it would be "Antler bottle opener, rustic bar ware, whitetail deer"

Then match the tags at the bottom and see what happens. Check the clicks and favorites after a week or so.


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