# Hybrid Table Saws



## Goosedog (Jan 6, 2015)

After some time away from woodworking/machinery stores (not big box stores) I am trying to find the right table saw for my current needs and I am trying to get an education on whats out there now. From what I've researched (including here) I think it's a hybrid saw I want. Fully enclosed stand, 2-3hp 220v single stage, Biesemeyer style fence, 300+lbs, etc. A jobsite saw is too light-duty and a shop saw is more than I need.

If I am correct in understanding Hybrid saw by definition, can anyone who cares to tell me their preferences and why.

Thanks, Goose


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*as the name implies...*

The hybrid has a combination of features, mostly a lightweight 120V version of a cabinet saw. It's casting and trunnions will be lighter and the motor will have 2 Hp or 1 3/4 HP to run on 120V. The 2 HP rating is "optimistic" in my opinion, since a true 1 HP motor requires about 12 AMPs on 120 V. My own 22124 Craftsman hybrid, is rated 1 3/4 HP. Mine also came with a very good Biesemeyer fence. Steel City may still make a similar one as the Craftsman has been discontinued.

If you just look at the range of saws offered by Grizzly and read the specification for each you will have a better idea of size, weight and features:
http://www.grizzly.com/search?s=category:Tablesaws&rankBy=price:ascending
The G0771 and G0715P are the hybrids offered by Grizzly. If you move up one level to a cabinet saw, you cost will increase by $400. to $500 or so, but over a lifetime of use, you will find that is not a significant price to pay for the better saw, with 3 HP and better fences. Powertools last "forever" if well maintained, in my experience, so it's best to get the biggest, baddest right off, if possible.

Here's a thread that may be helpful:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/new-table-saw-6356/


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Woodnthings pretty much summed it up. And I agree get the most for your money.

Some hybrid saws actually overlap pricing on entry cabinet saws.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> The hybrid has a combination of features, mostly a lightweight 120V version of a cabinet saw. It's casting and trunnions will be lighter and the motor will have 2 Hp or 1 3/4 HP to run on 120V. The 2 HP rating is "optimistic" in my opinion, since a true 1 HP motor requires about 12 AMPs on 120 V. My own 22124 Craftsman hybrid, is rated 1 3/4 HP. Mine also came with a very good Biesemeyer fence. Steel City may still make a similar one as the Craftsman has been discontinued.
> 
> If you just look at the range of saws offered by Grizzly and read the specification for each you will have a better idea of size, weight and features:
> http://www.grizzly.com/search?s=category:Tablesaws&rankBy=price:ascending
> ...


The last statement is good advice for those on the fence. None of us ever regret buying the 3hp saw. But there are a lot who wish they did and now that they have the smaller saw they just won't make the jump to the bigger saw. 

Why do they cal those saws hybrid? Is it just because it's less power and weight? 

Al


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## Goosedog (Jan 6, 2015)

I agree with the more power mentality but I just don't think I'll be cutting that much 8qrtr material to justify it. I have 220v in the shop and am now thinking a 1.75-2hp saw converted to 220 would match the amp of the bigger saws anyway, right?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

So they're called hybrid because they're built similarly to good contractor saws, 120 capable motors, heavy tops, usually 1.5-2 hp, but have enclosed bases like cabinet saws. Thus a hybrid of contractor and cabinet saws.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Converting a 1.75 hp saw from 110 to 220 won't give it anymore power (in 99.9% of motors). What it will do is make your saw draw half the amperage, and it will spin up a bit quicker.


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## Goosedog (Jan 6, 2015)

Good informative answers, thanks much. I'm going to a couple machinery stores today, will report my findings.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Do one thing....before you decide on a brand, look at sawstop.com if you haven't yet.


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

One thing I tell people on the DIY site is, you never regret overbuilding. Do you need to wire your shop for 220? No, but if you don't, and you want a big air compressor, too bad. 

As I've learned from this site, same goes for tools. The "if it's too small I can upgrade later" argument sucks. Get the best you can afford, and in my case, what will fit in my small shop. It's hard enough doing this woodworking thing without having to fight your tools all the time.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Goosedog said:


> I agree with the more power mentality but I just don't think I'll be cutting that much 8qrtr material to justify it. I have 220v in the shop and am now thinking a 1.75-2hp saw converted to 220 would match the amp of the bigger saws anyway, right?


For what the average person does the 1.75 - 2 HP saw will be adequate, probably work a bit better on 220, most machines in the real world do.

A good quality, sharp, proper blade for the job will be of more benefit to most than a 3 or 5 HP motor.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

It also depends on what you'll be working with. If your always cutting 5/4 hard maple, a 3 hp saw would be really nice. If you work with 3/4 pine always, you could get along very well with a 1.75 hp saw. 

I have a 1.75 saw on 220 now, and with a good thin kerf blade it's never let me down, but one of these years when I upgrade to a sawstop it will be a 3 hp for sure.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Ok so now I know what a hybrid saw is.

Hybrid saws are a relatively new class of table saw introduced by DeWalt with its DW746 in 1999. Because of the vagueness of the term "hybrid," they are also referred to as light-duty cabinet saws. Basically in between a contractor's open stand saw and a shop-grade cabinet saw with all but the DeWalt using a fully enclosed cabinet. The hybridization is usually assumed to be the smaller contractor motor paired with a cabinet stand and internal motor mount; but more accurately, the true distinction is based on the trunnion design. Hybrid saws use contractor saw trunnion assemblies, which are built lighter and typically hang mounted from the bottom of the table versus the beefier cabinet saw trunnion assemblies, which are supported by the top of the cabinet itself. It's true that all of the motors have moved inboard, but the Craftsman and Steel City designs are the only to use cabinet support with a contractor-style trunnion in this new class of saw, making them the only true candidates to be called light-duty cabinet saws. While interpretations of the class may vary between manufacturers, the price points on the machines we tested ran a tight range from $700 to $1,200 with most between $900 and $1,000. This is a 10-inch-blade saw that might be taken to a jobsite and set up for an extended time or used in a smaller woodworking shop.

Al

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Mort said:


> One thing I tell people on the DIY site is, you never regret overbuilding. Do you need to wire your shop for 220? No, but if you don't, and you want a big air compressor, too bad.
> 
> As I've learned from this site, same goes for tools. The "if it's too small I can upgrade later" argument sucks. Get the best you can afford, and in my case, what will fit in my small shop. It's hard enough doing this woodworking thing without having to fight your tools all the time.


Excellent post. Why is this so hard to understand and do?

Al


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I have a grizzly hybrid saw. It is rated at 2 hp, and runs on 220. With a sharp blade it rips 4/4 hard maple as fast as you can push. The factory fence works good.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*age is some benfit in this discussion*

Here's why. Back in the day, 1960's and '70's Craftsman made decent tools, cast iron tops, good powerful motors, some good fences, some bad ones. Over time their quality declined with the use of more plastic and some aluminum. I owned a Craftsman 100 table saw bought new in 1960 and it lasted for 45 years, before I parted it out. They also had an Industrial line of tablesaws and other tools, including a full out cabinet saw. You will only find them in an old catalog. 









Competition made them "cheaper" ...Montgomery Wards had a line of homeowner power tools as well. There were Gilbuilt machine kits you could get mail order. When I was starting out the Sears or Wards store was all I knew about. I knew nothing of Powermatic, Delta, Boice Crane etc, except that those tools were in the high school wood shop, but way beyond my budget and nowhere to be seen unless it was at a Production Tool show room.

So years later, more competition in the home owner market from the machine makers themselves, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Kawaski, Porter Cable, but not department stores which has always just rebranded tools from a contract manufacturer anyway. Craftsman never made a tool of their own AFAIK. 

You must distinguish the home owner market from the industrial lines, they are just not comparable in quality or cost. You can probably open any garage door in the burbs and find a table saw of some description. In the high end burbs, look in the basement. Those of us who have dedicated shops with a complete range of machines, have a whole different perspective on woodworking tools. Some here are operating out of carports, dining rooms, single space garages, and are doing the best they can without the best of equipment, but that doesn't stop them from turning out some very beautiful work. It's always about the work, not the equipment it took to make it. :yes:


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> Some here are operating out of carports, dining rooms, single space garages, and are doing the best they can without the best of equipment, but that doesn't stop them from turning out some very beautiful work. It's always about the work, not the equipment it took to make it. :yes:






:thumbsup:


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## centerisl (Jan 2, 2015)

Goosedog said:


> I am trying to find the right table saw for my current needs...I think it's a hybrid saw I want. ...A jobsite saw is too light-duty and a shop saw is more than I need.


Well, the responses were certainly interesting. Some defined a "hybrid saw", but it seems like much of the focus was on why he really "needed" a higher-powered, 220v, very heavy, cabinet saw.

Only Goosedog knows what his "needs" are, but beyond that are the constraints. Budget? I don't think I've seen a tool related discussion that doesn't inject budget into the decision. But beyond that there are additional constraints like shop space, power supply, and even availability (particularly for those in small market areas without Craigslist).

Sometimes the WAF (wife acceptance factor) comes into play, as in "I'm getting this tool so I can build that X you always wanted". I know that when I try that on my wife I always get the "yeah, right" look and a shake of the head. Maybe I'm not very convincing. :yes:

So, as a rather satisfied owner of a Ridgid TS2400 portable contractor saw, I'd like to offer a different perspective. 

My "shop" is a 2.5 car garage. I can squeeze one of our cars in if I have to, but I generally have a few projects going on and it seems like I'm regularly re-configuring things. We are just finishing a drawn out master bath remodel and it was great to stage all the cabinets and materials there prior to starting. And this week we're going to pre-finish all of the painted trim that will be going in. A multi-hundred pound saw with dedicated wings and extensions would take up way too much space and be a constant thorn in _*my*_ side.

So...how is the table saw being used? Lots of these cabinet saws are configured with tables and extensions for operations that could easily be covered by a track saw. In many cases that would be a lot safer. Depending on what you may be ripping, a bandsaw might offer more capability (and also be much, much safer).

Also, within the past couple of years I've taken this Ridgid TS (and a Ridgid compound miter saw on a stand) in the back of my SUV to a friend's and son-in-laws houses to help them with construction projects. And within a couple of years I'm going to build a cabin in the mountains about 90 miles from my home.

So the table and miter saws fold up when not used, my bandsaw (14" Rikon) is on casters, as is my 16-32 drum sander. I do have a large 4x8 workbench in one bay (that's why I can only get one car in), but I can reconfigure my garage substantially in less than an hour.

One thing that's new (for me) is a scroll saw. I actually had one on a stand that I didn't use, but I bought a used Delta 2 speed for $30 a couple of weeks ago and am enjoying that, and my wife wants to work with me to create puzzles and gifts, so I have a new one incoming with stand - not exactly sure where that will go.

So...for me, a contractor sized saw is sufficient. I have an Incra miter gauge and sled, and a few stands to help in the rare case I need to whack full-sized sheets. Which I usually do by myself, so I have a floor switch handy for those operations.

In closing I'll offer a parallel example from another domain entirely. One of my other passions is boats, and there's a saying that the most experienced boaters repeat regularly to "buy the smallest boat that meets your needs". Of course, this advice is routinely ignored - often resulting in very expensive corrections (many of these "corrections" include divorce!).


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