# Adze Work old style



## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

And some interesting facts 





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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks but I have no appetite to go that way! 
I'm curious about the age of the original artifacts.

One key point: they are working with fresh & wet wood.

The same practice applies to adze carving in alder and birch in the Pacific Northwest. Alder tightens up like iron when it dries. Nephrite Jade was the blade of choice. There's some sketchy evidence that the Haida, in particular, found iron as parts of asian rubbish which regularly is carried by the prevailing ocean currents to BC shores.
Just a few decades ago, the steel from vehicle leaf springs was the metal of choice. I'm about to try adze work in fresh western red cedar. At -20C, the blocks will be a few days yet just thawing out.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for the video, it is an interesting watch. Just a little bit too old school for me, I'll stick with modern alloys


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Lads , you missed the point of my posting of it .
The 115* bevel on the blade ..... :smile:


Oops . 
Correction , the 115 degrees between the blade and the haft .


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I noticed it, I'm just too ignorant at this point in time to understand the significance.:blush: I have bookmarked the video however so I won't forget as I continue my research on using an adze. Especially if I go the route of buying a blade and making/attaching the haft myself. As Robson mentioned in his post some experimentation is necessary to get it perform as you want, and I imagine I'll be doing a lot of that.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Sorry but I'm too thick to comprehend the 115*
The geometry of the elbow handle tends to dictate the bevel
and, by extension, where the hand placement must be.
I notice how the shallow elbow supports that design with a stone bevel.
The elbow becomes more acute with steel.
I'm just a beginner, but the rationale for the build of the tool has been 
more obvious than I expected.

I wonder if that really happened through the bronze and iron ages.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

> I wonder if that really happened through the bronze and iron ages.


One would have to ponder, building of pyramids..copper age..


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

I've corrected the typo in my post above , 
sorry about that .


> Oops .
> Correction , the 115 degrees between the blade and the haft .


The significance of the haft to blade angle is that it is greater than 90* , whereas most throughout time have been less than 90*.

They decided to try it out, see if it worked , it did .


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I don't know how useful this information is. 
My Kestrel elbow adze is meant to be used with one hand.
That stone adze had a long handle for 2-handed use as we see.

Here are some measurements from my Kestrel adze:
The angle included between the axis of the handle and the axis of the blade seat is 55 degrees.
The blade is bent a further 15 degrees from the shank. 
In the short length of the actual blade, above the inside bevel, it is quite straight.

When you measure 90 degrees off the short part of the blade at the cutting edge,
the intersection with the handle marks the position of your index finger for the grip.
This measurement and location is referred to as the Holm Constant, for the Pacific Northwest native
carver who measured what worked and what didn't. Despite that, I read that many other native carvers change those angles to suit themselves.

I am about to do so, myself: One more, one less and one as-is (because I've split mine at the blade seat and all the handle wrapping has come loose!) I don't know yet if I want to go 10 degrees or just 5 degrees, but, I'll keep the Holm Constant as is.

I got into this as an exploration and I'm not quite done yet.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

I like the look of those Kestrel irons . 
Haven't knowingly seen any in use over here , must keep a look out


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Kestrel (Gregg Blomberg) is a BIG DUDE here. I find out, second and third hand, what a positive contribution that guy has made in the PacNW. Huge. No more hunting for pre-63 Volkswagen leaf springs.

I just finished the drawings for new handles at 55 degrees and 45 degrees. I have drawn the weak part thicker (won't affect the impact with the carvings) by 3/8".

I might chop out some blanks with the miter saw after supper. One handle is crap and I've broken the better one. Really don't care. Tested to destruction = no other way to explore.

The cool part is that I can use a couple of hose clamps to fool with the blade in/out, and switch handles, in a minute.

I buy my wood from a guy who runs a furniture shop. He looked out his kitchen window this AM to see water running out from under the edge of the door. 4" deep and flowing like a creek. In his back door and out the front. We got a big melt, temp jumped 35C in 2 days and it hosed rain for 24 hrs.
Kinda funny to see sawdust flowing out into the driveway, I go shopping in rubber boots! 5/4 x 6" x 72" perfect birch is $3/stick.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Why pre-63 Volkswagen leaf springs ? 

I read an article a while ago about a Kiwi chair bodger who made his froe out of a tractor spring .


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

*Shout out for Kestrel Tools*

So I stepped to the end of the board, took the dive and ordered the Kestrel gutter adze (blade only) a couple of hours ago. Just over an hour after my order - _on a Sunday night_ - I get an email from Charlie (Gregg Blomberg's apprentice) thanking me for the order and letting me know it will probably be shipped tomorrow. That's what I call customer service, actually way above and beyond:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

MJ: the Pacific Northwest native carving community believed that the old steel, curved as it was, 
had the properties to be select for carving tools. In those days and times, they didn't fool with heating and tempering and so forth = they worked with what they found worked well. So be it. Apparently both Ford and GMC bought their truck leaf springs from the same palce = good steel.

Thanks trc75, I don't think that you will be disappointed. Charlie is taking the load off Gregg and that is a good thing. After 35-40 years, he needs to slow down.

Silly, but it's a thrill to get involved with the bladesmiths of the Pacific Northwest. For some reason, they sell stuff, best-there-is stuff, but it doesn't seem commercial in the least.

Anyone reading these posts: there is a small handful of top bladesmiths in the PacNW who build blades for the PacNW. If these are the tihings that you wish to explore or know that you already need, you have come to the right place.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Ok , thanks Robson .
I will keep my eye out for an old spring or two , have a crack at an adze as well as a froe .
With winter coming on it'll be a good excuse for standing round the fire


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I've stumbled across it twice: A YouTube video of a British blacksmith. He bashes out a beautiful bowl adze from a piece of a BMW coil spring.

If you want a froe, look around. Try to find out what the local greenwood workers are using. Lee Valley sells one but I wanted a straight handle, not the right angle socket for levering out shakes.
I had blacksmith pound out exactly what I wanted. It functions exactly as I expected, I can cut 5mm if needed.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

A lot of talk about the adze lately, so I hope you guys don't mind if I add my 2 cents. I`v never used a single handed adze so i cant add a lot in that direction but I`v been using a double handed adze since I was 16 years old that's a long time ago.

The first time I used one the journeymen made me stand with my two feet in two metal pales almost imposable to use the adze as I was standing on my tip toes OK they all had a good laugh at my expense.

So any thing I say here is purely my opinion based on my experience with a two handed adze.The whole use of a adze is based on the Radius of a circle the head is slightly arched to form the out side edge of the circle, I`m right handed so my left hand forms the center point of the radi. When you first start it is good to rest your left hand against your left leg so the center of the radi stays constant.

The shaft of the adze is called a Helve and is as individual as each man that owns one when using the adze down hand it is posable that the helve can be caught on a object and be swung back at the user at some speed and strength.
To save the user from any embarrassing injury's a new helve is always cut off just short of any dangerly bits that may be caught by the helve swinging violently back at the user.

The helve is normally cut out of ash but can also be cut out of hickory the helve comes out of the head at 90 degrees but then sweeps back to the user at a really sharp angle and then changes direction again to go straight up wards,the grain in the stock must follow the sweep in the helve the sharp sweep is to put spring in the helve so it wont be so tiring on the user when using the tool for long periods.

When taking quite a bit of waist of the stock its good to chop into it in the opposite direction and then come back at it another angle the adze is not chopping too deep into the stock, very much the same principal as when knifing a mast.

To me the best position for using the adze is at waist height and both hands free from the body and the left hand being used as a moveable center point to the radi, have fun. Billy


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Billy De said:


> A lot of talk about the adze lately, so I hope you guys don't mind if I add my 2 cents. I`v never used a single handed adze so i cant add a lot in that direction but I`v been using a double handed adze since I was 16 years old that's a long time ago.


The more the merrier:thumbsup:

I've never used either type of adze, so the whole thing is an experiment for me.  I imagine that I will be making several hafts and be going through lots of wood in figuring this out and trying to find a combination that works for what I want. 

Once I get my iron, I'll document my failures and hopefully a success or two along the way.:smile:

As I said before, this process started as wanting to use hand tools for some seats, but as I do more reading, I'm really looking forward to trying some bowls.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Robson Valley said:


> I've stumbled across it twice: A YouTube video of a British blacksmith. He bashes out a beautiful bowl adze from a piece of a BMW coil spring.
> 
> If you want a froe, look around. Try to find out what the local greenwood workers are using. Lee Valley sells one but I wanted a straight handle, not the right angle socket for levering out shakes.
> I had blacksmith pound out exactly what I wanted. It functions exactly as I expected, I can cut 5mm if needed.


 Cheers


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Billy De said:


> To save the user from any embarrassing injury's a new helve is always cut off just short of any dangerly bits that may be caught by the helve swinging violently back at the user.


 Thats' the one :thumbsup: 

I was given that advice when I was a lad as regards swinging an axe , and have applied it to sledge hammers , malls , adzes , picks , grubbers , and every work tool that has the butt of it's handle poking around me wedding tackle .

And the measuring test is simple .
Stand directly over the upright tool . 
If you can feel the handle , don't use it ...... :no:


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

There are only 2 hardwoods, native to the Pacific Northwest, which have any practical value as handles for adzes : birch and alder. They have been adequate up this way for nearly 2 centuries. For me, birch will just have to do. Just feels better, using local wood. I will be able to get 6 handles out of the stick for $0.50 each. Probably wind up testing them to destruction as well.

The geometry and the construction of a one-handed elbow adze is unlike anything else that I have studied. Then there are the finishing/texturing adzes and the heavyweight D adzes.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

This is a clip of a Windsor chair maker , smithing an adze from a slate roofer's hammer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vAiLzaOXIs


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