# Which plane?



## BennyC (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi guys,

First post!

I'm 19, and currently begining my second year at University studying 'Furniture' at Lincoln (UK). We did a fair bit of practical last year and started a collection of tools (marking tools, chisels etc etc. I brought a £50 Stanley Bailey No.5 Bench Plane to see me through the year. 

It needs alot of work to be tuned to a high standard, but i will keep it and see just how good I can get it to perform. 

I am aware of the two leading manufatures of bench planes. Clifton and Lei Nielsen. 

I have a couple of questions.

Firstly what size should I be looking at? I am aware that a No.7 can do everything a smaller plane can do. I'm also looking into a block and shoulder plane so would use these for smaller work anyway. Unfortunatley I don't have a money tree, so can't afford to buy one in everysize! Would a No.7 be the best bet? as I have the No.5 Stanley which i will fine tune and will purchase smaller planes later on.

Secondly the ongoing arguement Clifton Or Lei Nielsen? Price in the UK for a No.7 Clifton is circa £260 and Lei Nielsen £310. So for the difference of around £50 is the LN really worth the extra? If so please explain why other that just personal preference!

Third:

Please offer me any other advise, tips or hints you may think useful for someone in my position such as best places to buy? where to avoid, if anywhere in the US will ship to the UK? as tools over there are alot cheaper than here!

Thanks in advance guys

BennyC


----------



## gusthehonky (Apr 27, 2008)

The 7 is the first plane used for smoothing rough cut lumber, to straighten twisted/warped stock, or dimension larger wood to the same thickness as thinner stock(1" joined with 3/4). It's a valuable plane, but IMHO not the best first purchase. You already have one of the most versatile planes the #5. Often called the jack of all trades. It's also very good to hear that you looking to invest in high end planes, this will help to speed your progression and lower your frustration. I have been down the slippery slope of plane addiction and managed to recover somewhat. There is nothing I can say that isn't on the web about planes. I would suggest a LN Adj. mouth block plane as your first buy, you will be amazed, and also wonder how you got along without one. Secondly maybe a #4 or a 62, both LN. Those are my most used planes in the shop. I never used a Clifton, but feel LN is really worth the cash, aside from custom infills, the best by far that I've used. Lee Valley/Veritas, company out of Canada, is LN main competitor is spoken highly of by many, but I prefer LN has great cust. service and are located in my region.
________
CountlessCum


----------



## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Welcome Benny - I'm no expert but the #4 is often considered the most used of all the planes. Since you've got a #5, maybe a #3 would be a reasonable substitute for a #4, but the used fours are easier to come by and usually cheaper.


----------



## BennyC (Sep 4, 2008)

thanks for the advice so far guys.

I've been sharpening my chisels and properly tuning my No.5 Stanley for my return to University.

Classichandtools.com had the LN no.7 for £300 and the Clifton for £225 as a price freeze untill September 14th.

I'm quite a fan of David Savage's work and read his blogs about beginer tools etc etc. While he rated the LN quite Highly, he uses Clifton Forged High Carbon Steel blades as they hold an edge better than the LN A2 apparently.

However he mentioned there were discrepencies in regards to the tolerance's of the flatness of the base of their planes. But this can be cured with a little bit or work, or returned to the factory for one that is flat.

Thus I took the plunge with the Clifton No.7 :smile: as you have said probaly not the best first purchase but I do plan on purchasing an LN adjustable mouth block plane in the near future. I also need to buy rasps and files too. I also have a shoulder plane on my wishlist, something small like the Clifton 400. 

I'm quite a perfectionist when it comes to anything and will always buy the best that I can. I know there are better shoulder planes about but i have a short while before I buy.

At current I'm using some Marples red/yellow blend handled chisels. A set of 6 that I got for £50. Getting carried away with my spending I also convinced myself to buy a set of 5 Lei Nielsen Chisels for £190 (the 5 that come with the leather chisel roll) another lad on my course has them and they are verrrrrry nice.:yes:

So hopefully I will have A Clifton No.7, Stanley No.5, Lei Nielsen Block plane and a Clifton 400 shoulder plane for this year of Uni. I also need to sharpen my saws but am not quite confident enough to try!

Am I correct in the thought that all block planes are low angled? A lad on my course has one of these, with the adjustable mouth, which alot of people recommend.


----------



## gusthehonky (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi Benny,

Seems you are off to a fine start, tools and training, quite impressive a young man focused and committed to the mastery of his chosen trade, pursuant to the extent of a university education. I hope my post was of some help, but I feel your woodwork talents and skills in finer woodwork are probably more refined than mine. I'm just a general framer/carpenter and roofer by trade, finer woodworking is just a hobby. The two have drastically different approach so far as mindset and technique, I find it difficult not to allow an overlap. So far as tool choice goes, these were only some examples which has worked for me. Advice from your teachers or professors, as well as craftsmen you admire far exceeds the value of my $0.02. I hope my post did not read as impolite, or abrasive. fine tools are a great investment, their value only increases, while aiding in your progression. A Clifton, when in my price range, is now on my wish list, e-Bay has been good to me, if only to learn or experience. My loyalty to LN is based mainly due to location, we are both in New England. 

Block planes have the bevel facing up while Bench is down. Not all are low angle. The Low angle handles difficult and end grains with less effort, and helps to prevent tear-out. In general, I simply find the easier to work with, IMHO, I'm no authority on planes though. The hand tools forum has a picture of some of my shop users, as of now it's the last post in that forum. Under "show me yer planes", is the topic title.
________
Ebony Cam


----------



## BennyC (Sep 4, 2008)

gusthehonky said:


> Hi Benny,
> 
> Seems you are off to a fine start, tools and training, quite impressive a young man focused and committed to the mastery of his chosen trade, pursuant to the extent of a university education. I hope my post was of some help, but I feel your woodwork talents and skills in finer woodwork are probably more refined than mine. I'm just a general framer/carpenter and roofer by trade, finer woodworking is just a hobby. The two have drastically different approach so far as mindset and technique, I find it difficult not to allow an overlap. So far as tool choice goes, these were only some examples which has worked for me. Advice from your teachers or professors, as well as craftsmen you admire far exceeds the value of my $0.02. I hope my post did not read as impolite, or abrasive. fine tools are a great investment, their value only increases, while aiding in your progression. A Clifton, when in my price range, is now on my wish list, e-Bay has been good to me, if only to learn or experience. My loyalty to LN is based mainly due to location, we are both in New England.
> 
> Block planes have the bevel facing up while Bench is down. Not all are low angle. The Low angle handles difficult and end grains with less effort, and helps to prevent tear-out. In general, I simply find the easier to work with, IMHO, I'm no authority on planes though. The hand tools forum has a picture of some of my shop users, as of now it's the last post in that forum. Under "show me yer planes", is the topic title.


I'm a member of a few different forums and have dealt with impolite posts many a time, and yours were certainly not! i'm gratefull for your two cents as you can never have too much advice.

A LN low angle block plane is deffinatley on my list of things to buy next and is probaly at the top. So much so I feel inclinded to buy one now, with a retailer here having a price freeze until September 14th, unlike Axminster who's prices has shot up, it seems the wise thing to do and save myself some money buying now rather than later. Which one would you recommend?

*Lie-Nielsen No.9 1/2 Block Plane or **Lie-Nielsen No.60 1/2 Block Plane
*

Both have adjustable mouths, but the latter is the low angle like you suggested. Both come in at £112.

A nice collection of planes you have there. I'd quite like to have a go at making my own shoulder plane, but getting access to the metal work rooms may be tricky, but not impossible! Cozy looking workshop too.

The Chisels and Plane arrive tomorrow :smile: so will post a few out of the box piccies.


----------



## gusthehonky (Apr 27, 2008)

:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:

60-1/2



If/When ordering buy either from them or elsewhere buy what LN calls a "hand block" in their tool care part of their site. LNs need a light coat of oil to prevent rust/patina. I use WD40 if I remember to. After tarnish piles up these, those handblock things really remove the tarnish/light rust. I have never let it get to the point of pitting, by then....too late. Once again my $.02
________
HotRizzel69


----------



## BennyC (Sep 4, 2008)

Here they are:

there are a few mill marks? on the 3mm chisel on one side of the actual back of the chisel (by the back I mean the top). Only a few, and i can barely feel them with a finger nail, but these will buff out and wont affect its performance (they look deep, but they really aren't). Other than that these chisels are immaculate! 










The marks: 


















And the No.7 which in terms of build quality and just over all aesthtics is staggering and I can't stop staring at it!
They say its ready to use out of the box and it really is. The blade iron is razor sharp, and I daren't polish it as I fear i may dull it!:no:

I will check the flatness properly when I return to university but certainly looks to all be in order! What looks like pitting on the frog and blade in these photos is not, its just machine oil/grease.



























































































Back in the box until playtime next week...


----------



## gusthehonky (Apr 27, 2008)

Wow! Very impressive. Those LN's look soooo nice, Clifton also. Those dings on the chisels are nothing to be concerned with. Here is a pic of the newer stanley 9-1/2, although no LN, once tuned up, works very well for my needs, and sometimes my wood has some metal "surprises inside", forces me to be a little hesitant to reach straight for my Aces. The first pic is just an example of "minor blemish".
________
nice tits Cam


----------



## fanback (Mar 9, 2008)

I've been using Lie-Nielson planes for years. My favorite most user is the no.164 low angle smoother. I think it's the more all purpose unit. The no. 7 is for me a jointer only. Never have used it for any kind of face planing or dimensioning.

I've (in addition to having the L-N low angle block plane) used the Stanley Low angle block for years. Good plane also, but I've had to recently replace one that came up missing on a job site......and the new ones are surprsingly junky. Don't know when they changed.....but the lever caps are trash now compared to the last design. Clifton looks like a good unit though.


Michael


----------



## gusthehonky (Apr 27, 2008)

The older Stanleys are also a blast to find, set-up/clean-up, restore and use. One of my fav. users, is/was an old #18, the LN replaced it cause I chipped the mouth hitting a nail. Not ruined but not as good as it was for super fine shavings, but still finds work its is still great for. It was my first restore on a nice plane while a local Legend taught/overlooked. Honed and tuned to a T.

Nice shop Michael, top notch products and very artistic. The local flavor is also well represented, just opinions from a fellow New Englander.


Benny, if still checking in, follow Michaels advice--get 162 first, and dont forget to check his site. I'm just a carpenter, he is a artist/master joiner/craftsman/cabinet maker(or any other title prefered)
________
BODY SCIENCE


----------



## steve mackay (Oct 5, 2008)

*Buildin the arsenal . . .*

New to this forum and probably sticking my nose in but . . .
If I knew then what I know now and already owned a #5, 60 1/2 and #7 my next addition would be the #78. I use few tools in the manner of " carpenters" and found the #78 does a whole lot more than the Stanley Works origanaly intended. Its one of my "now if I had something that would do THAT this would be even easier" tools. Of course after I stumbled on a #289 for cheap I wondered how I lived without that also.

Also . . . did'nt see it mentioned but to get familiar with planes AND be entertained at the same time check out Patrick's Blood & Gore. Probably the best plane "site" I've ever seen.


----------



## JBark (Oct 8, 2008)

Benny,

Isn't the UK the land of flea markets? I'd hit them and see if I could find good planes at decent prices instead of all that overpriced modern stuff. Just my humble opinion. When I got into furniture making we, the guys in the shop and I, were always hunting the flea markets for good buys. I've got Stanley #'s 2's, 3's, 4's and a host of great chisels that I picked up for good prices. I didn't have a lot of money so none of them cost much. Spend some time tuning them, buy a good Hock blade and you will still beat the prices of the LN and LV planes.

I would look for a good block plane, a shoulder plane and a No.# 3. If you need to dimension stock I might search for the No.#7. I don't mean to offend but I see a lot of good tools at flea markets for moderate cost that are "close enough" in results to the high priced new stuff.

Hey, why not make yourself an infill plane? It's in your blood, no?

John


----------



## boondocker (May 31, 2008)

It's ironic that you are opting for US made tools when you have access to so many really fine hand tools at antique places in the UK. About 25 years ago when I was in a furniture program I took a hop over to your Island and bought several hunderd dollars worth of (can't remember the name of the planes). I shipped them home and sold off about half of them for about three times what I paid for them over there. The whole experience took me a summer to do but I also had a great time cruising Scotland and the antique tol shops in UK.


----------



## Patrick (Nov 16, 2008)

LN #4 and 60 1/2

Great tools.Great customer service.


----------

