# Disappointed in my Harbor Freight Duster Collector.



## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I don’t know if something’s wrong but it’s just not sucking very well, since I’ve added a Wye and 3 more outlets. One outlet it closed off with a cap and the others have blast gates that are closed. 

I don’t know for sure if it’s gotten worst because I’ve been making 10 times as much saw dust this last month, but when I opened up my table saw today it was filled up past the motor with sawdust although the outlet hole was clear. I also noticed a lot of sawdust around my router table.

I still have the original filter bag and I’m afraid to order another bag because it might be worst.

Is there something I can do?


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## Taylormade (Feb 3, 2011)

When you take the wye and outlets out of the picture and just use the DC as it came out of the box, does it have sufficient suction? I have the same HF DC and have 5 blast gates, two wyes and a cyclone separator and it does the job great. Maybe check the connections and make sure they're tight and not leaking air as well. Are you using PVC, hose, 4", 5", etc? How long is your total amount of hose/pipe?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Probably too simple, but empty the bag*

Make sure the bag isn't too clogged to flow air through. Check for a blockage also.  bill


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## Mizer (Mar 11, 2010)

Sleeper said:


> but when I opened up my table saw today it was filled up past the motor with sawdust although the outlet hole was clear. Is there something I can do?


 I had the same problem with my saw and fixed the problem by adding a ramp inside the table saw dust box that was much steeper than the original. I made it out of some HDPE plastic which is real slippery.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Sorry I had to run out for a bit and couldn't respond. I haven’t tried to put it back as it was because it’s too much work getting it together, but here are some photos.































I have at the most 16’ of hose and 25 ft of 4” PVC drain pipe.
It might be possible that’s clogged because I was ripping some angles without a zero clearance insert and some of the thin pieces sucked into the Saw. 

About a month ago I dropped the screw that holds the Craftsman insert in place and heard it bouncing around in the blower for a couple of weeks until it stopped.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> Make sure the bag isn't too clogged to flow air through. Check for a blockage also.  bill


 You know I didn’t think about the bag itself being clogged up. I guess I’ll to take it apart to check it out.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Do you have a chip collector or thien bagfle? 

If not use air to blow out and clean the filter. You do this while its syill on the collector. 

Other then that air leaks or maybe even a bad filter if that's possible. I know everyone that ever trie dthe wyn filterloved it and said it increased the suction.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

rrbrown said:


> Do you have a chip collector or thien bagfle?
> 
> If not use air to blow out and clean the filter. You do this while its syill on the collector.
> 
> Other then that air leaks or maybe even a bad filter if that's possible. I know everyone that ever trie dthe wyn filterloved it and said it increased the suction.


 I was just going to ask how to clean the bag, but I don’t quite understand how to clean it while it’s on the collector.

I have the Wynn 35A cartage filter on my list, but I want to get a separator or whatever its call first. I’m going to build my own separator, but I have just been too busy.

I’m a little unsure about the cartage filter because for one it’s expensive and I don’t know how long it’s going to last. If this bag is clogging up this fast, I can just imagine how fast the cartage is going to last.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

The bag filter can be blown out with air or just shook out but it had to come off. I was confused for d and was thinking about tje canoster filter. 

The thien baffle will keep most of the dust out of the filer area so that would be good. That wyn filter increases the filer area and will increase the suction. It is easily blown out from the outside in but with a thien baffle would be needed very seldom.

Did you seal the fittings good. I connect everything then put a bead of caulk on each fitting sealing it good. Ate you blast gates closed good? I had one that would leak bad so I replaced it. 

Shake or blow out that bag which should fix your problem. Make the thien baffle on a drum or trash can to eliminate that clogged filter problem. Well seriously reduce the peoblem. Then get the canister filter.


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## Murphy's Law (Dec 15, 2011)

Flex will kill any dust collector system. The static pressure required to move air through the corrugations inside the flex call for lots of horsepower. These little collectors cannot provide the suction necessary to move the air at the necessary velocity to keep the dust particles moving. Ductwork design is one of the most important parts of dust collection. There is no such thing as a plug-n-play dust collection system.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I found a YouTube video that’s shows a potential problem with the impeller. Check it out at the 6 min mark. I’m going to take mine apart to see if I’m missing anything.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

rrbrown said:


> .......
> Did you seal the fittings good. I connect everything then put a bead of caulk on each fitting sealing it good. Ate you blast gates closed good? I had one that would leak bad so I replaced it. ......


I just have all the pipe pressed together. It feels pretty tight, but I was wondering if I should glue it or maybe tape it.



Murphy's Law said:


> Flex will kill any dust collector system. The static pressure required to move air through the corrugations inside the flex call for lots of horsepower. These little collectors cannot provide the suction necessary to move the air at the necessary velocity to keep the dust particles moving. Ductwork design is one of the most important parts of dust collection. There is no such thing as a plug-n-play dust collection system.


I have to be able to move things around due to lack of space. So I'm stuck with the flex, but I can see that I'm going to to minimize it.


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## Taylormade (Feb 3, 2011)

I sealed all my connections with silicone and tried to minimize 90 degree elbows, opting for two 45s whenever possible. I'm running somewhere around 40' of PVC and another 20+ of flex hose and have no problems with DC, so something's amiss.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Sleeper said:


> I just have all the pipe pressed together. It feels pretty tight, but I was wondering if I should glue it or maybe tape it.
> 
> 
> I have to be able to move things around due to lack of space. So I'm stuck with the flex, but I can see that I'm going to to minimize it.


No glue. Tape is ok. I used Caulk silicone or latex both will work


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Taylormade said:


> I sealed all my connections with silicone and tried to minimize 90 degree elbows, opting for two 45s whenever possible. I'm running somewhere around 40' of PVC and another 20+ of flex hose and have no problems with DC, so something's amiss.


The 2 45's together works best but the long sweeping elbows work almost as good. It looks like he's using long radius elbows so I doubt that is the problem.


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## MTL (Jan 21, 2012)

Pull the 6" - 4" Y off the Impeller shroud and check for blockage there. Mine has clogged there a couple of times.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

MTL said:


> Pull the 6" - 4" Y off the Impeller shroud and check for blockage there. Mine has clogged there a couple of times.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


Thanks! :thumbsup:
Ok I found my problem after inspecting the impeller for missing screw. It turns out that on my model there is no screw. Anyway I now know that I need a separator soon.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

MTL said:


> Pull the 6" - 4" Y off the Impeller shroud and check for blockage there. Mine has clogged there a couple of times.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


Good one that we all missed. :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Blockage covered in post 3*



woodnthings said:


> Make sure the bag isn't too clogged to flow air through. Check for a *blockage* also.  bill





Sleeper said:


> Thanks! :thumbsup:
> Ok I found my problem after inspecting the impeller for missing screw. It turns out that on my model there is no screw. Anyway I now know that I need a *separator* soon.


I'd say rather than a "separator" to eliminate that type of "blockage" you just need to be aware of what goes into the DC and manually separate everything larger than chips and dust out of the system. I don't use mine as a floor sweep, rather I use a dust pan for the larger scraps and off fall.  bill


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## MTL (Jan 21, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> I'd say rather than a "separator" to eliminate that type of "blockage" you just need to be aware of what goes into the
> DC and manually separate everything larger than chips and dust out of the system. I don't use mine as a floor sweep, rather I use a dust pan for the larger scraps and off fall.  bill


I agree, but a separator would make life easier. I have been considering adding one. The first time i clogged mine was when i cut some uhmw on my TS. That sruff makes a stringy mess. Second time was when i thought the DC could handle shavins from a hand plane. Oops.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Yeah, you could have done that with a 5HP Clearvue cyclone and had the same results... You may want to refrain from sucking up large sheets of plastic, paper, and whatever the heck else that is in there, looks like a shop vac bag... 

For future reference, take the majority of that flex hose out of that system and replace it with smooth pipe. Reduce the number of joints, and tape them, or seal them with caulk. Don't glue it as you may have to tear it apart later on next time you suck up a plastic trash bag or two... You aren't the only one to pull that same stunt... I even managed to block off my Thien separator doing that... Takes a lot, but it IS doable...


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> I'd say rather than a "separator" to eliminate that type of "blockage" you just need to be aware of what goes into the DC and manually separate everything larger than chips and dust out of the system. I don't use mine as a floor sweep, rather I use a dust pan for the larger scraps and off fall.  bill


 I don’t really use it as a floor sweep, but by the looks of it, I think the paper towel and plastic bag must have been under my jointer before put a pan under it and used the hose to pick up the shavings after using the jointer.

The wood pieces definitely came from the table saw when I didn’t have the zero clearance insert. I don’t know how I’m going to keep that stuff out unless I use some sort of mesh under the blade to prevent the big pieces from going down the hole.



MTL said:


> I agree, but a separator would make life easier. I have been considering adding one. The first time i clogged mine was when i cut some uhmw on my TS. That sruff makes a stringy mess. Second time was when i thought the DC could handle shavins from a hand plane. Oops.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


 You have me now wondering about the shavings from my jointer, because they are pretty large.

I think that when I build my separator, I’m going to use clear plastic or at least a window so I can see what’s going on inside. 

Oh, before I forget, I haven’t taken the bag off yet, but I was beating it while it wasn’t running to see if anything fell down. I could not feel any clumps of anything from squeezing it and it feels pretty good.


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 4, 2012)

Some HF collectors run a 9.75" fan which is small for a 2 hp motor some have even had a fan that runs the wrong direction. A DC fan is generally a straight blade or a backward inclined blade. The BI has the fins curved and should run in the direction of the convex side of the blades. HF has supplied some running as a forward inclined configuration which proveds lots of cfm at low pressure but falls off quickly when it encounters SP from the pipes, flex and bag. A forward inclined fan is an incorrect application. You should open the blower housing and verify the fan runs in the proper direction related to the curve and check it's size. Yours may be fine but it's worth a look. Dave


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Sleeper said:


> Thanks! :thumbsup:
> Ok I found my problem after inspecting the impeller for missing screw. It turns out that on my model there is no screw. Anyway I now know that I need a separator soon.





Beckerkumm said:


> Some HF collectors run a 9.75" fan which is small for a 2 hp motor some have even had a fan that runs the wrong direction. A DC fan is generally a straight blade or a backward inclined blade. The BI has the fins curved and should run in the direction of the convex side of the blades. HF has supplied some running as a forward inclined configuration which proveds lots of cfm at low pressure but falls off quickly when it encounters SP from the pipes, flex and bag. A forward inclined fan is an incorrect application. You should open the blower housing and verify the fan runs in the proper direction related to the curve and check it's size. Yours may be fine but it's worth a look. Dave


Dave I'm guessing you didn't read the whole thread before posting. The above post showed the problem that was found.


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 4, 2012)

rrbrown said:


> Dave I'm guessing you didn't read the whole thread before posting. The above post showed the problem that was found.


Richard, I was just giving some info that might be appropriate to HF owners that seem to lack flow. That clog was big time and would have screwed up a bigger collector but the unit might be underproducing when clear. No collector should be purchsed without asking the blower diameter and configuration, motor quality, and bag type. Dave


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks Dave, I’m still working on this system and removing the clog definitely worked, but it’s still not as powerful as my little ShopVac and I’ve been using it more and more. 

The one question that hunts me is that except for the wood sticks, why it clogged. It’s one thing to blow stuff through a pipe which can pack it, but when you’re sucking it with a 2hp motor, you’d think it would pull through. I’ve had things get clogged in my 1-1/4” Shop Vac Hose, but it was always something too big to pass through a fitting which wasn’t the case here going from 4” to 5” hose. When I pulled the stuff out there was a very small plastic parts bag and one paper towel which should not have been a problem, because they practically fell out on their own. It was more like a sudden drop in suction at the WYE. 

The sticks of course are another story and I think I’m going to put some sort of mesh in the Table Saw to capture any more before they go down the hose. 

I took apart some of the 4” PVC pipe this weekend to add an outlet and realized that I really need to seal the joints. They were pretty tight when I first installed it, but now that it’s getting hot, they are loosening up. The easiest way would be to glue it, which is probably what I’m going to end up doing. 

I also started to build a Thien Dust Collection Separator but the 4” elbow on top makes it too high to fit under my table saw extension which is the only place I have room for it. So now I’m looking for a shorter trash can and I need to know if the can itself has to be round or can I use a square of rectangle box under the separator.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I'm no DC expert*

But your shop vac has a high velocity-low volume capability that's why it "seems" like it's more powerful. As hose size increases you need to move VOLUMES more air to get the same effect. The DC's in our shops, 1 1/2HP and up to 3 HP move fairly large volumes but at lower velocities. 

Good advice is to use a minimum of ribbed hose and as large a diameter of smooth pipe as possible allows the air speed to stay high enough to move the fines through the system. The large power tools like planers and jointers and table saws were not designed with dust collection in mind if they are more than 10 years old generally. The most effective dust collection surrounds the cutter head or saw blade an immediately removes the dust and chips. To evacuate a large cabinet like some tables saws with a 4" port at the bottom is not effective. It only gets the dust that falls down near the port. 

The newer table saws have a blade shroud around the blade much like a blade cover on a RAS and are much more effective. My Bosch 4000 job site saw has that feature.
I had to make my own for my older Powermatic 68 12" saw
and I have a 4" port right at the blade. I also recommend and overarm blade cover connected to a shop vac on the table saw. I made mine from 2" PVC for under $10.00. Without it I can see and feel the chips hitting my face. There are many variation of these, some are mounted on an arm on the saw, some hang down from the ceiling.  bill


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> .......
> I had to make my own for my older Powermatic 68 12" saw
> and I have a 4" port right at the blade. I also recommend and overarm blade cover connected to a shop vac on the table saw. I made mine from 2" PVC for under $10.00. Without it I can see and feel the chips hitting my face. There are many variation of these, some are mounted on an arm on the saw, some hang down from the ceiling.  bill


 Thanks for the info Bill, I definitely have to do something for the top fo the Table saw because I’m really tired of getting covered with saw dust, and sometimes when I’m on a roll and moving pretty quick around the shop I forget to put on my glasses and end up with saw dust in my eyes.
That’s going to be my 1st project after I get this part done.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Sleeper I agree with the hign velocity low volume thing Bill mentioned. 

As for the box instead of a it may work provided you have round sides on the baffle. Anything that stops or slows the air speed will hurt the sustem. There souldn't be any effect below the baffle but could prove more difficult to make. 

NO to the Glue in my opinion. If you have to take it apart you will need to cut a patch. Use silicone caulk around the outside edge of joints then wipe/smear it around the let dry. Easy to remove and will have a good seal. 

I've never heard of the reverse fin thing and I don't see how it would provide any flow in the right direction. Personally I would like to see pictures of the different fins. I do know that the impellers are slightly undersized compared to other DC systems. 

However with that said most people seem to be happy with the HF DC so it may just be the expectation of shop vac velocity that is the problem. In your case a 5" main line and reducing down to 4" at the tool will improve the velocity but probably not worth the cost.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks Richard, I’m thinking of using one of these Rubbermaid Plastic 29 Gal. Clear Totes with the round Thien Top Hat Dust Separator as shown in this video so that I can see if it’s filled or not and it is low enough to fit.


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 4, 2012)

for informative reading about fans go to either the Chicago or Cincinnati fan websites. They not only talk about the different configurations but have pages of data regarding cfm and amp draw at different pressures. Keep in mind that a cyclone with filters and ductwork will operate between 8-14" sp. the oneida system curves are referenced at the cyclone inlet so theoretically you can subtract the loss due to the cyclone and filters although they don't tell you their testing data. The BI fans used in hobby systems are chosen so the you won't burn out the motor if you run it without restriction but the trade off is less cfm at higher pressures. that is why it is so important to size duct correctly. A straight radial is what has always been used to push dirty air through the fan as the blades are self cleaning but can burn out the motor if not monitored. the old baggers were straight but in recent years the BI has taken over although if you use much flex and argument could be made for going back to the straight blade. Running a forward curved blade in a dust collector will give you poor performance and clog easily. It is easy to look inside the blower and know what you have. Dave


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks Dave I’ll have to check that out.

This is a photo of the Harbor Freight Impeller that I took just prior to finding the clog as shown above.










I may end up buying another blower anyway, because I would really like to have a 240V motor to keep the load balanced in my house


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 4, 2012)

If you are looking down from the outlet the fan is forward inclined and replacing it with a larger diameter BI will improve your life. The older two baggers ran a plastic straight 12" fan that was actually a decent deal for the application. I can't tell you why HR uses that fan but maybe someone with more knowledge with chime in. Dave


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