# spray wb with hvlp



## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

Hi I am thinking of going to a hvlp rather than apply water base by hand , any tips on certain hvlps ? and respirators ?
i


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Waterbase polyurethane finishes much nicer when sprayed than done by hand. Use thin applications, and try to spray vertically. If items are down and flat, don't let the media pool or puddle.

If you use an HVLP, your compressor may not be up to the CFM requirement of the particular gun. HVLP produces much less overspray, and it's hard to see what's coming out of the gun. You might check into the self contained turbine type with a gun,* like this one*. I suggest you use a lot of light on the work so you can see the "wet" path. 

I would recommend using a two cartridge respirator.


















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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*hvlp*

Cabinet man
Thanks a lot actually , I ordered that hvlp last week waiting on it to arrive , does it have different tip sizes ?. was not bad priced to start out on and get some experience spraying . I use Vermont water base urethane right now any need to thin ?
Thank you for your advice 

Rick


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ricko said:


> Cabinet man
> Thanks a lot actually , I ordered that hvlp last week waiting on it to arrive , does it have different tip sizes ?. was not bad priced to start out on and get some experience spraying . I use Vermont water base urethane right now any need to thin ?
> Thank you for your advice
> 
> Rick


I haven't used that particular one. See what the label says, if it's ready to spray. I haven't experienced too much of a problem spraying WB finishes with the tip that comes on the gun. I will say of the various brands I've tried, around 5% water to thin worked well. That would be about ½" of water in the bottom of a qt cup.


















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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*hvlp*

ok thanks , yes I have thin water base poly on my top coats to slow down the drying a bit , with good results when doing by hand.I have ordered a few books, will practice and hope fully be happy in the long run . will save me a lot of time 

Thanks 

Rick


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

One thing to look out for with water based finishes is they are incompatible with linseed oil, an ingredient in most oil stains. If you use an oil stain be sure to wait three days drying time before directly applying a water based finish. Another option would be to put a coat of Zinsser Sealcoat on as a barrier coat so an overnight drying time with the stain could be used. It would also prevent the water in the finish from raising the grain so the finish would build quicker. As far as respirator I use a 3M disposable respirator. The rubber body of the respirator wears out too so I would rather use a fresh respirator rather than one you change the cartridges.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> Waterbase polyurethane finishes much nicer when sprayed than done by hand. Use thin applications, and try to spray vertically. If items are down and flat, don't let the media pool or puddle.
> 
> If you use an HVLP, your compressor may not be up to the CFM requirement of the particular gun. HVLP produces much less overspray, and it's hard to see what's coming out of the gun. You might check into the self contained turbine type with a gun,* like this one*. I suggest you use a lot of light on the work so you can see the "wet" path.
> 
> ...


What a coincidence. I bought that sprayer today. I sprayed Zinsser primer on the doors and drawer fronts of the buffet I am building. For first time use, I thought they turned out pretty good.

Note: Three tips included. A link to the instruction manual is on the HF page.

I use an outdoor spray booth! :laughing:

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## Trav (May 30, 2011)

I am not sure if that sprayer comes with a viscosity cup, but if not get one and learn to use it. I learned the hard way. Hated my Fuji gun until I figured out how to thin finishes correctly.


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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*spraying wb*

For doing small jobs in garage, do you think a small spray booth is a must or ?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ricko said:


> For doing small jobs in garage, do you think a small spray booth is a must or ?


If you aren't planning for a dedicated exhaust outside the garage, and a filtered air intake, you might be better off just spraying outside.








 







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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*spray wb*



Steve Neul said:


> One thing to look out for with water based finishes is they are incompatible with linseed oil, an ingredient in most oil stains. If you use an oil stain be sure to wait three days drying time before directly applying a water based finish. Another option would be to put a coat of Zinsser Sealcoat on as a barrier coat so an overnight drying time with the stain could be used. It would also prevent the water in the finish from raising the grain so the finish would build quicker. As far as respirator I use a 3M disposable respirator. The rubber body of the respirator wears out too so I would rather use a fresh respirator rather than one you change the cartridges.


is a spray booth a must with water base or ?


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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*booth*



cabinetman said:


> If you aren't planning for a dedicated exhaust outside the garage, and a filtered air intake, you might be better off just spraying o months
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 well I plan on working in there in winter months , so better rig something up


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## Indywar2 (Sep 24, 2013)

*Does spray require compressor*

Hi Cabinetman,

One of the questions I have been wondering about is if my compressor (rated for 2.8 CFM @ 90 PSI) would deliver the CFM to reliably spray finishes using HVLP sprayers. Is it correct to assume that the HVLP kit you linked to above does not require a compressor to use? I assume this is the case since it has a motor, but wanted to confirm.

Thanks,
Rob


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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*hvlp*

Rob 
yes this unit has its own motor, no compressor needed . I am about to try my luck at spraying also with water base ,


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Indywar2 said:


> Hi Cabinetman,
> 
> One of the questions I have been wondering about is if my compressor (rated for 2.8 CFM @ 90 PSI) would deliver the CFM to reliably spray finishes using HVLP sprayers. Is it correct to assume that the HVLP kit you linked to above does not require a compressor to use? I assume this is the case since it has a motor, but wanted to confirm.
> 
> ...


Look it up on the harbor freight site. Instruction manual is available.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Indywar2 said:


> Hi Cabinetman,
> 
> One of the questions I have been wondering about is if my compressor (rated for 2.8 CFM @ 90 PSI) would deliver the CFM to reliably spray finishes using HVLP sprayers. Is it correct to assume that the HVLP kit you linked to above does not require a compressor to use? I assume this is the case since it has a motor, but wanted to confirm.
> 
> ...


Your CFM rating would likely be higher, as airline pressure to the gun would be less than 90 PSI. Still, if it's still lower, it will still spray on intermittent intervals. If you want a steady output, your tank will deplete to the "kick on recovery" and run to refill. If your output is still steady, the compressor has to fill the tank and support the gun. Soon, the compressor will not keep up, and the air output will be less, and your gun will become ineffective.

As for the self contained HVLP...yes, that's the whole shebang. 
















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## DIY (Jun 10, 2011)

I use a Fuji turbine HVLP and try to stick to WB finishes. I absolutely love spraying with this setup. 

I don't know much about the HF HVLP, but I've heard good things about it. It is a single stage turbine, so it probably won't be able to atomize heavier finishes without quite a bit of thinning. Higher turbines means more CFM/volume and the ability to spray thicker finishes. Thinning just means more, thinner coats and more risk of runs on vertical surfaces. 

With the 2.8CFM compressor, I don't think you'll be happy with a conversion gun. They really take a lot of air (that's the HV part). As Cabinetman described, the compressor runs out of pressure. Yes, you can wait it out, but if you're halfway through a pass and your gun starts sputtering, it can ruin your finish.

I've been using, and really like the Target Coatings WB finishes. They are ready to spray out of the can, no thinning required. You may or may not need to thin a bit with a single stage turbine. I've used their EM9300 right over Boiled Linseed Oil as recommended by the mfg. I'm sure that some WB finishes are incompatible with BLO, but it turned out well. I've also shot Minwax polycrylic over regular minwax stain and it turned out fine.

I use a 3m Organic Vapor respirator. I've shot WB without the mask and it made me sick for several days after. I vent with a cheap 8" inline fan sticking out of the back of my garage. It helps clear the air, but it still looks like a cloud in there for about 5 mins after I spray. Make sure your tools are well protected as the overspray seems to rust up unprotected steel.


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## DIY (Jun 10, 2011)

Also, this manual has a ton of great information about HVLP spraying and the Target MB finishes:
http://thedovetailjoint.squarespace.com/storage/Target%20Coatings%20Manual%20R%201.0%20reduced.pdf


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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*hvlp*

what model or series of Fuji hvlp do you have ?


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## DIY (Jun 10, 2011)

After tons of research, I bucked up for the Full Blown #8 Q4 package http://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/Q4.html. I'm extremely happy with this setup and the versatility it offers. I've shot everything from stain, to BLO to latex paint right from the can. Hell, I shot a whole 16' x 45' mobile home with Valspar paint/primer(thick stuff) with just a little floetrol mixed in.

For what it's worth, the MM4 is cheaper and has the same functionality, just louder. The Q4 is quite enough to have a conversation within 10 feet of it.


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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*wb spray*

I have been on that site with the different Fuji hvlp , just not sure on which one to buy. so you got the Q4 set up ? nice , 

Rick


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## ricko (Feb 17, 2013)

*fuji*

I would like one of those to by Fuji , just not to sure on which one, bottom feed or graviy cup any suggestions pro and cons


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## DIY (Jun 10, 2011)

I got the gravity feed. I was up in the air about that as well.

I actually thought that I was going to get the swivel fitting gun, but apparently Fuji changed the design. The new gun is stationary and comes straight out of the top. 








New design:









The gravity is definitely the simpler design. Finish pretty much goes from the bottom of the cup, through the very front of the gun and right out the tip. With a bottom feed, it has to go up through a dip tube. I think this makes cleaning easier on the gravity.

I also figured that if I were to spray inside of a cabinet or shelf, etc, that it would be a bit more maneuverable. When I hook up the hose to the pressure pot, though, I wish it was hooked to the bottom.

I don't think either would be the "wrong" gun, but I'd probably get the gravity again. I'm also thinking about upgrading to the 3m PPS system, but it's not in the budget right now.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I prefer a conventional cup and gun. It just feels more balanced, and you can set it down. I don't have a problem spraying inside of a cabinet with it. The gravity guns are popular with some of my friends that spray cars.








 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ricko said:


> is a spray booth a must with water base or ?


A spray booth is handy with any finish but excluding environmentalists no finish has to be sprayed in a spray booth. The biggest problem is overspray. There shouldn't be much of a problem with water based poly but if you mean latex paint it can carry through your shop and stick to other projects or your equipment.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Spraybooths are great,everyone should have one,haha.

But,that just isn't practical for most folks.The smaller,3 sided "Binks style" offer a great alternative.Look one Ebay,buy new or used.

Won't go into the terribly boring discussion on making your own.Yes,its doable but the discussion revolves around safety regs so much that it just seems to be a problem making headway.

What I do want to say is;Take a Binks style booth.Look at the way they're configured.It's like a fireplce in your house in that,it's mainly taking up realestate(sq footage) with,wait for it.........................nothing.It's just space.Theres nothing that says you can't put and heck,use for that matter a power tool in this spot.Obviously moving it when you need to spray.I feel very strongly on this....If you look at them in this way,you'll see that they take up very little,"actual" space.

Now for the "bad news".And is somewhat irrespective of booth style,size,or even if you don't have one.....it's what no-one tells you when extolling booth features.It's "make up air"....and where is it coming from?Imagine having a $20k booth inside your shop.It's Feb........it's cold.Once you've evac'd whats available inside shop,now what?There's answers to this.....but just wanted to bring it up.


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## DIY (Jun 10, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I prefer a conventional cup and gun. It just feels more balanced, and *you can set it down*.


I could definitely see this as being a nice feature. The kit I have came with a bracket that hangs on the wall, but it's a little awkward getting it set in place properly and sometimes the cup will shift a little as it's filling up and spill some finish down the side of the gun.


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## Indywar2 (Sep 24, 2013)

*HF 44677 vs. Wagner 518080*

So do you guys think the HF 44677 would be better, worse or the same to the 



 and why? They seem to be approximately the same price, but was curious if the 2 stage turbine and longer hose on the Wagner would be better.

Thanks,
Rob


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