# I Need Some “Plane” Advice



## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello,

I am a very new woodworker. I love making tables. Along with tables come table tops. I am over-the-top anal so I want to develop my skills for making perfect, smooth, flat table tops. I know that I will need to use planes to do this well, but the closest I have ever come to a plane is at the airport……..sorry that was bad…..

What would be the best 2 or 3 planes for me to start out with to help me make smooth, flat table tops? I am thinking block plane and smoothing plane? I know I could spend hundreds of dollars on planes but unfortunately I can’t do that right now.

What are some good medium range planes that will get me started. Is Stanley brand any good? That is about my price range. Also what do I need to keep them sharp? I have read about sharpening stones, plexiglass, and a lot of stuff that gets me really confused easily…..not hard for me……..so can you tell me the basics I need to keep planes and chisels sharp and in good working order?

I really appreciate any advice you can provide.

Regards,
Tom


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## steve mackay (Oct 5, 2008)

Sounds like you are aproaching the edge of the abyss but not yet gazing directly into it. But you feel its pull. Stop where you are and go read through Patrick's Blood & Gore. Then go to Da' Bay and pick up a Stanley #5 that does'nt look like its been down a well for fifty years and spend ten bucks to have it sharpened. If you don't have it sharp (or you try to sharpen it yourself for the first time) it'll fight you and you'll be turned off hand planes. But when you get your first cool shavings be prepared to look the beast in the eye and submit.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

Steve is right. Sharpening is the most important skill you can have when working with chisels and planes. There are some great systems out there, and you don't have to spend a lot of money. I use the "Scary Sharp" system. Just a piece of glass and sandpaper.

I have not been impressed with any of the common planes available (Stanley, Groz, etc). I have a couple of Lie-Nielsen planes that I love, but they are incredibly expensive. I am probably happiest with my flea market finds. $30 for an old Stanley and a Saturday to true it back up, and you have something that works as well as a $350 LN.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks guys....

My goodness....do I have a LONG way to go.........I went out into the garage tonight and tried planing a peice of pine scrap with a very poorly sharpened plane we had in the garage....LOL....wow.........that poor peice of pine doesnt even look like wood anymore....more like an old dog bone.........geesh.....

would you suggest any reading material that would help me get the proper technique for sharpening chisels and planes and just some proper technique for planing in general.....wow...I am so pathetic when it comes to this.......I really depressed myself tonight.....lol

I think for my current (first ever) table project I am going to sand the table top as smooth and flat as I can get it and leave well enough alone....it's for my mom......she likes anything I do......LOL

Once I learn...if ever....I'll try for the smooth flat table tops.....

Have I mentioned I am really bad at this....???.....LOL

wow...awful.....


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

steve mackay said:


> Sounds like you are aproaching the edge of the abyss but not yet gazing directly into it. But you feel its pull. Stop where you are and go read through Patrick's Blood & Gore. Then go to Da' Bay and pick up a Stanley #5 that does'nt look like its been down a well for fifty years and spend ten bucks to have it sharpened. If you don't have it sharp (or you try to sharpen it yourself for the first time) it'll fight you and you'll be turned off hand planes. But when you get your first cool shavings be prepared to look the beast in the eye and submit.


I looked around a little and saw a bunch of different #5 Stanley planes.......is there a specific one i should get for what i want to do?

I saw jack planes, bailey planes, block planes...all #5


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## KevinK (Sep 18, 2008)

If money is not a problem, you will want a jointer plane, a jack/fore plane and a smoothing plane, the bevel up planes may be the better choice as they cut better on alternating and variable grain patters. You should also get a scraper either a card scraper or a plane type scraper. Check out Lee Valley for descriptions and uses.

Good Luck
Kevin


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

I know the abyss that Steve is talking about...It's a dangerous place to be..

I just picked up my second plane on ebay...It"s a Stanley #40. You wouldn't use (nor would you want to) this plane for smoothing table tops, but I'm also desperately looking for a type 11 #4 smoother.

If I were you that's what I'd be looking for.

When you pick one up, see if your local woodcraft is offering a "handplane basics" class. It'll show you exactly how to use the plane. They may even let you sharpen the blade on their worksharp.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

Don't be deterred. Just approach this as a learning experience. When I started really using hand planes, I bought several 2x4 studs. They work great as a practice medium and are cheap. Every wood is different, especially when using hand tools, if you master pine, you can easily transition to other woods. To master a plane, and each is a little different, is really about feel. Butcher some wood, but understand why you are getting that result. You can learn more about woodworking with a handplane than any other tool. They force you to understand wood grain, wood density, and workability. 

You can do a Google search on sharpening techniques. There are a lot of ways to get the results you are looking for. I use a WorkSharp WS3000 for my chisels and small plane irons. I use the Scary Sharp (http://wood.bigelowsite.com/articles/scary_sharp.htm) system for larger irons and to true my planes. I think that setting your expectations properly are the most important thing. Until you experience using a well-tuned, sharp plane, you don't really know what you are doing. 

When in search of a plane, I started out with a simple rule - the older, the better. I love the old Bailey planes, but that name is also used on modern models. 

Regarding the size (#4, #5, etc), that is typically relative to the length of the sole. Some of the designations (smoother, jack, jointer, block, etc) relate more to function. A #5 really falls between a smoother and a jack plane. There are techincal reasons for the designations, but don't get wrapped up in that. I would recomment that you start out with a block plane and a #4 or #5. 

Almost any plane will do a good job - honest! Some just take a lot more care than others. I have a Groz #7 jointer that cuts as smooth as any. I bought it new, and spent 3 hours flattening the sole. I also have to sharpen it 3 times as often as my LNs. But when it is right, it works as well as any.

Just to test my theory, I bought a "4 pack" of hand planes at Costco. I think I paid $5.95 for the pack. It took an entire day of work, but they now cut flawlessly. The only exception was the "thumb plane", which I just can't get to take an edge. The others require frequent sharpening, but overall I consider it a sucessful experiment.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello to all who replied.

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide such detailed responses. I really appreicate it. I feel a little better now after reading that there is hope...lol

I just need to get a couple of decent planes and get them sharp before I can get any real sense of what I am doing.

Hopefully with time i will get there....

Thanks again.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey guys,

One more quick question.

I was on the Woodcraft site and saw a couple of brands that looked interesting. Unfortunately I can't afford the LN right now and I am looking for some vintage Stanley's currently, but they have a Footprint and a Woodriver brand of planes. Both have kits that are currently on sale. These seem like they would be good to start with but wanted to see what you guys think.

Also I envision myself dong a lot of M&T work. Would it be wise to invest in a shoulder plane?

Thanks.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

I haven't used either brand that you mentioned, but Footprint has had a pretty good reputation in the past.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

mwhafner said:


> Steve is right. Sharpening is the most important skill you can have when working with chisels and planes. There are some great systems out there, and you don't have to spend a lot of money. I use the "Scary Sharp" system. Just a piece of glass and sandpaper.
> 
> I have not been impressed with any of the common planes available (Stanley, Groz, etc). I have a couple of Lie-Nielsen planes that I love, but they are incredibly expensive. I am probably happiest with my flea market finds. $30 for an old Stanley and a Saturday to true it back up, and you have something that works as well as a $350 LN.


Quick question sir....

You mentioned you are not necessarily a big fan of Groz planes. I see a set of them on sale at Woodcraft too. Would you advise to stay away from them?

Thanks


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## steve mackay (Oct 5, 2008)

Actually, like the pro aboce said, almost any plane (if sharp and true) is going to do the job. Its us hardcores that start getting picky. My first plane was a Sears. I was in a desperate place and just needed a plane to get me out. $10.00. BUT they DO NOT come out of the package sharp. I scewed up one side of a finnished oak case before I figured out what all the hacking was from. JUST LIKE YOU ! Had a guy sharpen it for me so I could see what it SHOULD look and act like. Its one of those " AHA " moments. I still was'nt a big plane guy but it did the job and I finnished the project. It was while dumpster diving that I surfaced with a Stanley #5 1/4. It followed me home and pouted on a shelf 'till I gave it some love'n. Since then I've picked up a couple planes to do specific jobs I need to do. And, you know, kinda fixed 'em up. Re-japaned 'em and cleaned 'em up a bit. But, because its what I taught myself, with I reach for the same 5 1/4 for a lot of jobs.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

steve mackay said:


> Actually, like the pro aboce said, almost any plane (if sharp and true) is going to do the job. Its us hardcores that start getting picky. My first plane was a Sears. I was in a desperate place and just needed a plane to get me out. $10.00. BUT they DO NOT come out of the package sharp. I scewed up one side of a finnished oak case before I figured out what all the hacking was from. JUST LIKE YOU ! Had a guy sharpen it for me so I could see what it SHOULD look and act like. Its one of those " AHA " moments. I still was'nt a big plane guy but it did the job and I finnished the project. It was while dumpster diving that I surfaced with a Stanley #5 1/4. It followed me home and pouted on a shelf 'till I gave it some love'n. Since then I've picked up a couple planes to do specific jobs I need to do. And, you know, kinda fixed 'em up. Re-japaned 'em and cleaned 'em up a bit. But, because its what I taught myself, with I reach for the same 5 1/4 for a lot of jobs.


Hey Steve,

Thanks for the encouragement and the great pic of your planes.......wow....what a great collection......

I am going to keep looking for the vintage planes. For my immediate purposes i may either get the Footprint or Groz "kit" of 3 planes from Woodcraft as a starting point and the Scary Sharp system to start with......

Thanks again my friend,
Tom


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

Regarding the Groz planes - 

I bought a Groz #7 jointer several months ago. It took forever to flatten the sole. The machining is also pretty rough. That said, once I got it true, I have no problems. It does not hold an edge as well as others, but it works great. All the adjustability is there, it is just not as smooth as older (or better quality) planes. It works fine though.

I think I paid around $75 for it, and would do it again.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

> I am going to keep looking for the vintage planes. For my immediate purposes i may either get the Footprint or Groz "kit" of 3 planes from Woodcraft as a starting point and the Scary Sharp system to start with......
> 
> Thanks again my friend,
> Tom


Steve is again correct. There is just something about taking an old plane and bringing it back to life. I have found some great deals at antique stores and flea markets, but you just have to take what you find. If you are looking for a specific plane, you may have to hunt a long time. The Groz or Footprint will get you up and running.



> Also I envision myself dong a lot of M&T work. Would it be wise to invest in a shoulder plane?


I personally prefer my little rabbet block plane - http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=60_5R

It is a little more useful for me, and works well for cleaning up tenons. It is a little expensive, but you are buying two planes in one.


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## steve mackay (Oct 5, 2008)

mwhafner . . . right you are ! I eyeballed shoulder planes for awhile. While I have'nt found "The" rabbet block yet I did unearth a #78. One of the best 30 bucks I've ever spent and it'll do a whole lot more than a shoulder would. On the other hand I lust for an old Stanley chisel plane. Probably'd never use it but they're pretty darn cool. ( Please don't bring up the LN chisel. I ain't got THAT much lust in my whole body ! But I belive God probably has one. )


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

thanks again guys for all of your help and advice......I'm gonna make a decision tonight and just go for it this weekend.....


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## steve mackay (Oct 5, 2008)

Thats how its done ! Jump in . . . both feet . . . the water is fine ! Deep, but fine !


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