# Capping oak steps - need advice



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

I am new to this level of repair work though I have done a fair amount of plumbing and electrical work among other things. I have tools either new or accumulated over the years including a 10" radial arm saw, reciprocating saw, jig saw, various types of sanders, and hand tools. I am open to purchasing other tools as necessary for this and future projects (flooring).

the steps in my home are in need of repair. I started this project with the hope of refinishing them but it would appear they are beyond that. The two alternatives I have found so far that appeal to me are the Cap-A-Tread product from Home Depot and the NuStair product. The Cap-A-Tread is a laminate that simply caps the tread and wraps around the existing bullnose. It's very appealing but there is no support and no samples. It is a mail order only product and I'm uncomfortable with the lack of knowledge anyone at Home Depot has about the product.

The NuStair product is all red oak hardwood an 3/8" or 5/8" thick. It's made from three sections plus an attached scotia bullnose that is designed to overlap the existing bullnose. I prefer the hardwood approach but it means a lot more work as I will explain and then my questions.

The bullnose on my existing treads are 1 3/8" long and the scotia bullnose on the NuStair would add another 1 1/2". That length would cause the bottom tread to protrude beyond the front of the side rail which is problematic. It seems to me that the best way to install these caps is to remove the bullnose. If I do that on the bottom step I would need to do the same on all the steps. An almost 3' overhang would be a tripping hazard on all the steps in any event.

If you got this far, thanks. My questions are:



What type of circular saw blade would be best to rip the bullnose? I was looking at a 40 ATB Diablo.
What type of blade would be best to crosscut the new treads on the radial arm saw. I was looking at a 60 ATB Diablo
I am considering purchasing a table saw for the rip cuts on the new floor (and future flooring jobs) but even if I attempt it using the circular what type of blade would be best. I was also considering the 60 ATB. If I buy a table saw it will probably be a DeWalt DW745 or DWE7480X if I can determine the differences besides the stand.
So my questions are primarily about the best blade types for the current job I am attempting. I am also open to suggestions and any ideas about a better way to approach this.


----------



## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Have you considered just ripping the treads and risers out and getting new ones??


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

I do not have the knowledge or experience to attempt a job that involved though I briefly considered it. Your signature is also part of the answer "The tools don't make the craftsman....". I am approaching this in a way I believe I can succeed, but thanks.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I had never heard about the Cap-A-Tread before. I looked it up and it would work for you but you would need to make sure there was no air behind the front edge. You might have to make some wood trim to nail to the front of the treads that would fit the contour of the inside side of the cap. Then glue it on with some construction adhesive. In my opinion any voids under that front edge and it wouldn't withstand being walked on for ever long. 

The NuStair product I'm wondering if you could rip 1 1/2" off the back side to make it fit. I would imagine it's made oversized so each person could fit it to their own stairs. 

Either the 40 or 60 tooth blade would do fine to cut the parts. You need to turn them upside down and cut them from the back side so any chipping is on the back side where it doesn't show. 

From what I can see you also have the option of refinishing the existing treads. You would just need some paint and varnish remover, a random orbital sander and perhaps a mouse type sander. The risers you could maybe cover with 1/4" plywood.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Steve, The pictures are a poor representation of the condition of the treads. They are water and glue stained and gauged and some of the treads have 40 or so nail holes in them. I have sanded all the treads since the pictures were taken. One of the treads is also split horizontally the length of the tread. I wish the treads were in reasonable enough condition to refinish but I don't see how.

The issue with the NuStair and similar products is not the depth of the tread but the length of the scotia bullnose. Cutting the depth to the proper length is easy but the scotia needs to overhang the original bullnose and that will add 1 1/2" to the already 1 3/8" overhang. That almost 3" overhang is a disaster waiting to happen. The only option I see is to remove the original bullnose and install new thin risers.

As for the Cap-A-Tread, it is designed to fit over the bullnose on the existing treads with the bullnose supporting the Cap-A-Tread. I don't see a support issue there. That, of course, would mean I do not need to remove the existing bullnose because the Cap-A-Tread would only add about 3/8". Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

It looks like Cap-a-tread is a laminate product made to match laminate flooring. Unless you're doing the floor also, I'm not sure how that's going to look against your original floor. 

NuStair looks like it would be a better match for the floor. You could use a circular saw to cut most of the bullnose off the old stairs and finish off the ends with a chisel. I'm not sure how things would work on the top stair. The NuStair tread at the top would sit above the finished floor. If you decide to not put a tread at the top, you'll have a step that's shorter than the rest. Come to think of it, you'll have a step at the bottom that's higher than the rest. Ask, I don't like stairs with attached nosings, I think they will come loose in time. 

Are you sure you don't want to have a go at replacing the treads? I'm wondering if the treads sit on top of the stringers, or are inset into the stringers. If they're on top and not captured on the sides, it seems like it would be easier to remove the old treads and get new treads that already have a nosing than it will be to cap the existing ones. 

Just a couple of other thoughts. You could fill the holes and paint them. Also, Flooring guys have all sorts of tricks to deal with messed up treads and ways to replace them.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Thanks for the suggestions. The Cap-A-Tread is available in many color options and I am planning on using Pergo or a similar product or click connect oak for the main floor of the house at minimum. The color match is certainly an issue but I believe it is not insurmountable whatever I choose. This interests me for the floors. http://www.lowes.com/pd_772288-972-ESS340_1z11oh9Z1z0rqhh__?productId=1000040171&pl=1

The stair treads are set into the stringers as is the the top tread/bullnose. For me that is a show stopper when it comes to replacing them. Also, there is no access to the bottom of the stairs unless I remove the ceiling beneath them. I will not be replacing the top tread or capping it but will sand and stain it to get as close a match as possible to the treads.

I can see the under side of the mid level stairs from the basement. The treads are set into the stringers about 1/2" and supported in the middle with two 2" X 2" X 3" glued blocks on the riser about a foot apart. There are shims below some treads and behind some risers at the stringers and I see no nails except from the riser ends into the tread so I assume glue is the main bonding agent. I am not a carpenter but this looks like a lower quality design.

I agree with your concerns about an attached bullnose but I can't see any other way to go unless it's Cap-A-Tread. The NuStair treads come in 3/8" for top and bottom treads and 5/8" for the main stair treads to minimize the height differential on the top and bottom tread.


----------



## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I think if you're planning to use Pergo on the floor, then Cap-A-Tread will work well. It looks like the colors of Cap-A-Tread are direct matches for the Pergo colors.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Okay, a lot has happened since I started this thread. I purchased a DeWalt DWS709 12" sliding compound miter saw and a DeWalt DWE7480XA table saw. I have also purchased a lot of inexpensive pine boards to help me learn to use the new tools and have come a long way. I decided in the oak capping for the replacement treads but not the NuStair. I chose Stairtek instead because it is available locally and is essentially the same thing. Playing with stains has also been fun.

I have a question about the landing tread. the existing one is set into the stringers and is about 3 inches wide. Behind it are two two inch wide pieces of oak that look like they were nailed down. I have sanded the landing tread down to wood and it looks acceptable enough to be able to refinish. I was also wondering if it would be possible to drive the landing tread out of the stringers if I remove the two two inch pieces of oak behind it. The oak pieces are slightly wider than the staircase and not tongued into the floor as far as I can tell. I would then replace it with a new 5 or 7 inch wide landing tread.

My concerns are:

Is there any real chance I can drive the old landing tread out of the stringers without damaging them?

If I use a new 5 inch landing tread should I be able to set it into the stringers without damaging them? I know if I choose a 7 inch landing tread it will not set into the stringers unless I cut an angle at the top of each stringer channel so the new tread will make the angle I need to set it in place. I really don't want to cut the stringers so I was wondering if anyone knows a way to do this I have not thought of.


----------



## aghir (Jan 11, 2015)

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Take a look at the landing tread in the photo, you will see it has a lip on the front that will prevent it from sliding back. You have a mortise stairs where the treads are mortised into the stringers, replacing the treads on that type of stairs will be much harder than an open stringer stairs.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

@BigJim thanks for the reply. I took a closer look at the underside of the landing tread and I do not see any lip. There a gap of about 1/8" between the top of the riser and the bottom of the landing tread the width of the tread. There is also a gap of about 1/4" between the riser and the stringer in the right side. There is almost no gap between the riser and the stringer on the left side. These steps look like crap the way they are constructed. I have attached a picture to show the underside right hand corner of the landing tread, riser, and stringer.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

You are right, it looks like someone ripped a tread down and used it for a landing tread. Question, how did they make up for the extra thickness of the ripped tread vs flooring on the landing?

Can you access the under side of the stairs and get a picture or two under there to see if you actually do have a mortise stairs or open stringer. The way you describe the tread and riser it isn't full mortise.

In answer to your orignal question, if there is nothing but the flooring at the landing, then yes removing the flooring, you should be able to drive the landing tread back. Provided there aren't any nails, screws or glue holding it. But having to drive the landing tread back instead of upwards makes me think it is a mortise stairs.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

@BigJim Unfortunately I can not access the under side of the steps but I have attached a picture of the top right of the landing tread. As you can see, there are two cut oak planks about 2 inches deep each abutting the landing tread and oak floor on the upper level. I believe these two planks can be easily removed. Both the landing tread and these planks appear to be nailed in from the top. I actually removed a finishing nail I discovered after some sanding from the middle top of the landing tread. It also appears there is another nail at the end of the landing tread secured to the riser. I can use a reciprocating saw on any nails like this. You can also get a better idea of the mortise from the picture.

The existing landing tread is 3 inches deep and the ones I have seen that are available are 5 inches. I thought if I could get the old one out I could slip a 5 inch one in and use a single 2 inch filler plank. If I use a deeper tread I will need to modify the mortise to accept it as far as I can see. I might have to us an oak tread without a lip if the mortise is too narrow. Is there a trick to joining the landing tread to the existing floor I am not aware of? Remember, I am new to this so any advice on the best way tackle this part of the job is appreciated.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

By your picture it does look like you have a mortise stairs. There are landing treads that have a groove, but you would have to mill the flooring to fit the groove. It would be really hard to get the flooring installed into a groove unless you were installing all the flooring starting at the landing tread. 

Most landing treads don't have the groove and just butt the flooring. I agree, you may have to rip a tread or at least fill in behind the lip of the landing tread, depending on how thick the one you have now is. Why don't you just scrape, sand and refinish the landing tread you have now, it is red oak?


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Lots of conversations going on. Have you kept the stair building code in mind concerning tread depth and riser height? If you haven't removed the bull noses yet cut out a notch in the middle of the bullnose with an oscillating multitool plunge blade. Then use a jig saw to cut in both directions to remove the nosing.....when the jig saw hits the skirts use the multitool to finish the nose removal. Probably too late but you could have used the multitool to cut the ends of the treads flush with the stringers. New treads would cover the pieces of old treads that are left in the stringers. Stair treads aren't that hard to do...just require precise cuts to avoid gaps. Based on the fact that you are tool savvy and a hands-on guy you could do it.
With your tools you can rip the new landing tread to whatever width you want.
Also, get yourself an oscillating multitool...you can get one for $15.00 at Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight blades are lousy. Oscillating multitool blades are not inexpensive....Bosch blades are top notch and will fit the HF tool. You can buy a better tool and it has lots of uses.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

@BigJim I tried nudging the existing landing tread but it would not move in the mortise but I can bow the whole tread up easily with a pry bar (except for the ends in the mortise). I also tried removing the pieces behind the tread and they won't budge either. My guess is they're glued as well as nailed. I think the only way to remove the landing tread is to cut it out. I'm not sure I have the confidence for that since this is my first attempt at something like this. I did sand the tread and am definitely considering refinishing it. It does have some deep stains in the grain from the carpet glue but I think it should be okay. If it looks like a disaster I can always start cutting and replace it. Then it will need replacing and no loss if I mess it up . It looks like it's only about 1/4 inch into the mortise so if I cut it I know I can remove the remaining pieces.
@JIMMIEM I have not looked into the building codes in my area though it did cross my mind. I'm not even sure where to find them. The tread depth should be the same once the new treads are installed but it will raise the steps by 5/8 inch. the top step will be 5/8 inch shorter than the rest of the treads though because the landing tread, even if replaced, will be the same height as the existing floor. I'm not sure that is an issue but there is nothing I can do about it. I am also looking into installing engineered flooring that is 3/8" without underlayment. With underlayment it will be about 1/2 inch so the new treads will be spaced almost the same as the original. I know I can cut the original bullnose but chose not to because the new treads are designed to cover them. I have not done any cutting yet except for practicing with scrap. I have confidence I can make the necessary cuts. The new treads are installed from the bottom starting with the riser then tread and so on. The treads are ripped 1/4 inch shorter than the depth to the existing riser and the new riser is then installed on the tread.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> @*BigJim* I tried nudging the existing landing tread but it would not move in the mortise but I can bow the whole tread up easily with a pry bar (except for the ends in the mortise). I also tried removing the pieces behind the tread and they won't budge either. My guess is they're glued as well as nailed. I think the only way to remove the landing tread is to cut it out. I'm not sure I have the confidence for that since this is my first attempt at something like this. I did sand the tread and am definitely considering refinishing it. It does have some deep stains in the grain from the carpet glue but I think it should be okay. If it looks like a disaster I can always start cutting and replace it. Then it will need replacing and no loss if I mess it up . It looks like it's only about 1/4 inch into the mortise so if I cut it I know I can remove the remaining pieces.
> 
> @*JIMMIEM* I have not looked into the building codes in my area though it did cross my mind. I'm not even sure where to find them. The tread depth should be the same once the new treads are installed but it will raise the steps by 5/8 inch. the top step will be 5/8 inch shorter than the rest of the treads though because the landing tread, even if replaced, will be the same height as the existing floor. I'm not sure that is an issue but there is nothing I can do about it. I am also looking into installing engineered flooring that is 3/8" without underlayment. With underlayment it will be about 1/2 inch so the new treads will be spaced almost the same as the original. I know I can cut the original bullnose but chose not to because the new treads are designed to cover them. I have not done any cutting yet except for practicing with scrap. I have confidence I can make the necessary cuts. The new treads are installed from the bottom starting with the riser then tread and so on. The treads are ripped 1/4 inch shorter than the depth to the existing riser and the new riser is then installed on the tread.


There is a national building code for stairs. Also, individual states may have code which is different from the national code. Call the building inspector for the city or town where you live and ask which code to follow. Let us know which one they tell you to follow....we'll point you to the documentation. The codes exist for a reason which is primarily safety so it's important that your stairs are code compliant. When stairs are walked on the walker adjusts their stride to the stair dimensions in 3 strides....if the dimension changes too much i.e. goes out of a code, it will throw the stride off. Worse case scenario....somebody has an accident on your stairs, insurance claim is filed, insurance company checks accident site (your stairs) and finds that they are not code compliant....may deny the insurance claim.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

@*JIMMIEM *Thanks, that will be the next thing I do. I looked on the township site for the information but got lost in a maze of dizzying babble. I sent them a request for information and may go there tomorrow to see what I can find out.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> @*JIMMIEM *Thanks, that will be the next thing I do. I looked on the township site for the information but got lost in a maze of dizzying babble. I sent them a request for information and may go there tomorrow to see what I can find out.


Where do you live?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Where do you live?


New Jersey


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Here's a copy of the National Code. Look at page 5.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Here's a copy of the National Code


Thank you very much. Awesome, I have all my answers and some new problems. The top tread will not be within code. I need to use a 3/8" tread cap instead of a 5/8" one. I know where to get it though, thanks again.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Thank you very much. Awesome, I have all my answers and some new problems. The top tread will not be within code. I need to use a 3/8" tread cap instead of a 5/8" one. I know where to get it though, thanks again.


Look in New Jersey Building Code Chapter 10 for New Jersey's specs....I would assume that your township follows the NJ code but probably best to confirm with township building inspector.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Look in New Jersey Building Code Chapter 10 for New Jersey's specs....I would assume that your township follows the NJ code but probably best to confirm with township building inspector.


Are you sure it's chapter 10? _CHAPTER 10_. MEANS OF EGRESS does not seem to be what I am looking for.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Are you sure it's chapter 10? _CHAPTER 10_. MEANS OF EGRESS does not seem to be what I am looking for.


I was in the wrong code book. My apologies.
Look in New Jersey Residential Code....Chapter 3 section R311.5.3


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> I was in the wrong code book. My apologies.
> Look in New Jersey Residential Code....Chapter 3 section R311.5.3


Thank you for all your help and leading me to the exact location for the steps. It looks like the NJ code mimics the national code so I still need to use the 3/8" tread for the top step and probably should as well for the bottom. How concerned should I be when I install the new flooring as it raises the floor almost 1/2"?


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Thank you for all your help and leading me to the exact location for the steps. It looks like the NJ code mimics the national code so I still need to use the 3/8" tread for the top step and probably should as well for the bottom. How concerned should I be when I install the new flooring as it raises the floor almost 1/2"?


Where is the new flooring being installed. I read through your posts and answers rather quickly so I may have missed something. If I missed I will go back and reread. There are ways of dealing with flooring height differences but as you have seen in the stair codes the stairs and top and bottom landings should follow the 3/8" variance rule...sometimes this is problematic when dealing with the top and/or bottom landings.....but again it's a safety issue.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

JIMMIEM said:


> Where is the new flooring being installed. I read through your posts and answers rather quickly so I may have missed something. If I missed I will go back and reread. There are ways of dealing with flooring height differences but as you have seen in the stair codes the stairs and top and bottom landings should follow the 3/8" variance rule...sometimes this is problematic when dealing with the top and/or bottom landings.....but again it's a safety issue.


 And very important concerning your insurance, they always are looking for something wrong so they don't have to pay up if there is an accident. Not to mention if you sell your home and an inspector catches it, they will make you correct it before you can sell.


----------



## JenVogs (Jun 26, 2016)

Here's a link that may help you. http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/05/16/remodeling-a-stair


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

I plan to do the floor at the bottom of the stairs I am working on first but I'm not sure when. Once that is done I would like to do the upper level at the top of the stairs. If I use the 3/8" tread for the bottom the new floor should bring the riser from + 3/8" to ~-1/8" and the top riser will be - 3/8" so that should be okay. Since I am not capping the landing tread my concern is what to do for the ~3/8" difference between the landing tread and the new floor. I know there has to be a reasonable solution because people put engineered floors down all the time. I just haven't done the research yet.

Safety, resale and insurance are why I am trying to stay within code and I know the codes are there for a reason.

@*JenVogs* Thanks for the link, I will check it out.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I'm NOT a stair guy, but ...*

Unless I missed sumthin' you are adding 3/8" tread caps, a 3/8" top floor and later a 3/8" bottom floor. Just cap the landing tread and be done with it... 3/8" added to all treads and floor. Nothing changes in the riser height....?:nerd2:


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> Unless I missed sumthin' you are adding 3/8" tread caps, a 3/8" top floor and later a 3/8" bottom floor. Just cap the landing tread and be done with it... 3/8" added to all treads and floor. Nothing changes in the riser height....?:nerd2:


Ah, the simple solution is always the best solution, thanks. The bottom floor comes first but that's not important. The 4 middle treads will be 5/8" and the top and bottom will be 3/8" so I can stay in code. The manufacturer of the treads does not recommend his 3/8" product for all treads, only top and bottom and only if necessary.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Ah, the simple solution is always the best solution, thanks. The bottom floor comes first but that's not important. The 4 middle treads will be 5/8" and the top and bottom will be 3/8" so I can stay in code. The manufacturer of the treads does not recommend his 3/8" product for all treads, only top and bottom and only if necessary.


When you install the caps how far does the front of the nosing cap extend beyond the riser?
Also what is the current riser height from bottom floor to first step? What will it be after you redo the bottom floor and add the tread caps?
What will you be doing to the second floor? It's landing tread will be increasing by the 3/8" cap.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> When you install the caps how far does the front of the nosing cap extend beyond the riser?


The new treads have a 1 1/4" or 1 3/8" nose as I recall. I will be installing new risers so that is the overall new nose length.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Also what is the current riser height from bottom floor to first step? What will it be after you redo the bottom floor and add the tread caps?
What will you be doing to the second floor? It's landing tread will be increasing by the 3/8" cap.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Also what is the current riser height from bottom floor to first step? What will it be after you redo the bottom floor and add the tread caps?
> What will you be doing to the second floor? It's landing tread will be increasing by the 3/8" cap.


The first step riser height is 6 3/4" so it will go to 7 1/8" when the tread is capped. The new floor at the base of the stairs will be 3/8" and will bring the distance from the floor to the bottom of the bullnose on the new tread back to 6 3/4".

I am not capping the landing tread. I will either refinish it or replace it with a similar piece of oak so the riser to the landing will be 6 3/8". When I install the upstairs floor the landing tread will be capped, I suppose, with something that's the same thickness as the new floor, about 3/8". That will raise the top of the landing tread by 3/8" but the riser height will still be short. The only way I can make the top riser 6 3/4" is to cut out the existing landing tread and install a new riser to support it. It will no longer be in the mortise if I do that though because I will need to raise it by 3/8". 

I'm getting depressed :wink2:


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> The first step riser height is 6 3/4" so it will go to 7 1/8" when the tread is capped. The new floor at the base of the stairs will be 3/8" and will bring the distance from the floor to the bottom of the bullnose on the new tread back to 6 3/4".
> 
> I am not capping the landing tread. I will either refinish it or replace it with a similar piece of oak so the riser to the landing will be 6 3/8". When I install the upstairs floor the landing tread will be capped, I suppose, with something that's the same thickness as the new floor, about 3/8". That will raise the top of the landing tread by 3/8" but the riser height will still be short. The only way I can make the top riser 6 3/4" is to cut out the existing landing tread and install a new riser to support it. It will no longer be in the mortise if I do that though because I will need to raise it by 3/8".
> How thick are the current stair treads?
> ...


Before you get depressed measure the current height of every riser beginning at the bottom floor proceeding up the stairs and ending at the landing at the top floor. When you do the bottom floor will you be removing what's there now? Same question for the top floor. Also, if you are going to be removing current floors what is their current thickness? What will be the thickness of the new floors?
Just trying to get a clear picture of where you are and where you are going.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Darkk, hang in there it isn't as bad as it seems, Jimmie is telling you right and asking a lot of the right questions to be sure you are good to go.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Okay, I took all the measurements I could take concerning step height. It looks like I will be good except for the floor to first step until I install the new flooring on that level.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

BigJim said:


> Darkk, hang in there it isn't as bad as it seems, Jimmie is telling you right and asking a lot of the right questions to be sure you are good to go.


I know, I'm just a little overwhelmed by the things I didn't account for when I started this project. Fortunately I have not started the actual work yet except for learning to use the tools with scrap and gathering most of the items. I have cut scrap risers and treads with success so I am confident all will go well if I am careful. I was planning on using 5/8" for all the steps but after learning so much from all the great people here I need to take a step back and order the 3/8" treads for top and bottom steps. Still playing with the stain to match the new flooring as well.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Dark, if you want your treads to fit tight, just do a google for stair tread template, and hit images. This will bring up all types of templates you can use to cut your tread the right length and if the stairs are out of square it will let you cut the tread to fit perfectly.

You will notice some of the templates are complicated or look to be. Some cost upwards of $250, but what I use to do was get two pieces of 1/4 plywood about 11X30 inches. Lay one piece of the plywood down on the tread so it touches one side of the stringer and is against the riser. You can see if there is a gap, or the stairs are out of square. 

Scribe the 1/4 plywood to fit the stringer, then cut it and lay it back inplace to see how it fits. Do the other side the same way. Lay one side back on the tread and lay the other one on top of that one so each side touches each stringer. tack them together, lay the template on top of the tread to be cut, mark, cut and install.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

@BigJim Thanks for the suggestion. I was going to purchase a template when I came across the one from Stairtek. Simple, elegant, works like charm. I just missed the metal one that was replaced by the plastic one I purchased. It works similar to the way you describe but I just use a piece of scrap 1X3 between the two pieces. Take a look. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stairtek...te-STTRTO/203410479?keyword=stairtek+template


----------



## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

late comer in this thread. make sure the existing stair components are all sound, and solid. adding a cosmetic cover will not improve any bad situation. all problems should be fixed first.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I know, I'm just a little overwhelmed by the things I didn't account for when I started this project. Fortunately I have not started the actual work yet except for learning to use the tools with scrap and gathering most of the items. I have cut scrap risers and treads with success so I am confident all will go well if I am careful. I was planning on using 5/8" for all the steps but after learning so much from all the great people here I need to take a step back and order the 3/8" treads for top and bottom steps. Still playing with the stain to match the new flooring as well.


You can make a stair tread jig very easily from scrap plywood. All you need is a straight piece of plywood, 2 triangular pieces of plywood, a couple of carriage bolts and wing nuts. Easy to do and you will get some more practice using your woodworking tools. Google Stair Tread Jig.
Also, projects like this can seem overwhelming but if you spend time up front planning everything out, gathering the supplies and tools then things will work out nicely. This is especially true if what you are working on, which in your case is stairs and flooring, is being used for daily living. Probably doesn't seem like a big deal but what if you couldn't get all tread caps installed in the same work session and somebody had to use the stairs in the middle of the night when they were half asleep. Lay a piece of wood on one of the steps try walking them with your eyes closed.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Okay, I took all the measurements I could take concerning step height. It looks like I will be good except for the floor to first step until I install the new flooring on that level.


Existing stair tread thickness?
Existing landing tread thickness?
Will existing bottom floor be removed before new bottom floor is installed?
Existing bottom floor thickness?
New bottom floor thickness?
Will existing top floor be removed before new top floor is installed?
Existing top floor thickness?
New top floor thickness?


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Okay, I took all the measurements I could take concerning step height. It looks like I will be good except for the floor to first step until I install the new flooring on that level.


Did you measure the riser heights as shown in the IRC stair building schematic?


----------



## sbrader (Aug 27, 2015)

I recently replaced the treads and risers on one of our stairways. I made a jig like many of the ones you'll find by Googling it. I'm at work so I can't attach a picture. The jig made cutting the treads very easy. I had an entire stairway torn out and replaced in a couple of hours; including going overboard on the design by drilling pocket holes to cinch everything down tightly. The picture is before I trimmed them out and repainted the walls, etc. around it, but you can see the finished stairs.

I would recommend doing this rather than capping existing stairs. That allows you to keep the rise and run the same as what you currently have.

Scott


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

sbrader said:


> I recently replaced the treads and risers on one of our stairways. I made a jig like many of the ones you'll find by Googling it. I'm at work so I can't attach a picture. The jig made cutting the treads very easy. I had an entire stairway torn out and replaced in a couple of hours; including going overboard on the design by drilling pocket holes to cinch everything down tightly. The picture is before I trimmed them out and repainted the walls, etc. around it, but you can see the finished stairs.
> 
> I would recommend doing this rather than capping existing stairs. That allows you to keep the rise and run the same as what you currently have.
> 
> Scott


Thanks for the suggestion but my stairs are boxed and mortised and it would be extremely difficult, for me anyway, to simply replace the treads.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Did you measure the riser heights as shown in the IRC stair building schematic?


I did measure the riser heights but that will change because of the bullnose on the new treads. The front of the bullnose is designed to overhang the the riser. That's why I didn't include the measurement in the chart I posted. Take a look at the schematic of the tread installation I posted earlier.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Existing stair tread thickness?
> Existing landing tread thickness?
> Will existing bottom floor be removed before new bottom floor is installed?
> Existing bottom floor thickness?
> ...


Existing stair tread thickness? 1"
Existing landing tread thickness? 1"
Will existing bottom floor be removed before new bottom floor is installed? No
Existing bottom floor thickness? flush (oak)
New bottom floor thickness? +7/16"
Will existing top floor be removed before new top floor is installed? No
Existing top floor thickness? flush (oak)
New top floor thickness? +7/16"


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

TimPa said:


> late comer in this thread. make sure the existing stair components are all sound, and solid. adding a cosmetic cover will not improve any bad situation. all problems should be fixed first.


Thanks. If you look at my original posts you will see the stairs are a mess cosmetically. Stained with glue from carpet and full of nail holes especially at the top treads. I removed all the staples and brads but the treads are really beyond refinishing. The risers are buried in glue and need to be capped or replaced no matter what. The overall structure of the stairs seems pretty good so I believe the new treads should work well for me. If not I will chalk it up to experience and start again but only as a last resort.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I did measure the riser heights but that will change because of the bullnose on the new treads. The front of the bullnose is designed to overhang the the riser. That's why I didn't include the measurement in the chart I posted. Take a look at the schematic of the tread installation I posted earlier.


I just want to make sure I have a clear picture of how everything measures out before the alterations...that will make it easier to figure out where to find variance space. I saw the schematic....I'm trying to assign measurements to it.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

The portion of the bottom floor looks good. Why are you going to cover it?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> I just want to make sure I have a clear picture of how everything measures out before the alterations...that will make it easier to figure out where to find variance space. I saw the schematic....I'm trying to assign measurements to it.


I will be happy to measure the existing risers if that will help. The riser height will not change with the new treads as I am cutting the new risers to the size of the existing risers so they fit in the same area. They will simply be flush with the nose of the existing tread. I have attached a cross section view of the new tread. Your help with this is much appreciated and the time you are investing goes above and beyond. Thanks


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> The portion of the bottom floor looks good. Why are you going to cover it?


You can only see a small part at the base of the steps. When I bought the house the area in front of the stairs had ceramic tile. I had some work done about 10 years ago and had the tile removed and the floor refinished. It revealed substantial water staining and many many nails. There is still carpet over the floor where the water stain is and the stain continues under it. It looks like there was a large fixture in that area at one time and water collected under it. I was told by the contractor they could not remove any additional wood surface from what they already sanded.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I will be happy to measure the existing risers if that will help. The riser height will not change with the new treads as I am cutting the new risers to the size of the existing risers so they fit in the same area. They will simply be flush with the nose of the existing tread. I have attached a cross section view of the new tread. Your help with this is much appreciated and the time you are investing goes above and beyond. Thanks


The code defines riser height as the distance between the leading edges of the treads on adjacent steps. For the bottom floor to the first step this would be the distance from the floor to the front edge of the tread bullnose. Your plan to add 7/16" flooring and a 3/8" tread cap would decrease this riser by 1/4"....the 7/16" floor decreases the rise by 7/16" and the 3/8" tread cap would increase the rise by 3/16" (half the thickness of the tread). -7/16" + 3/16" = -1/4". 
First tread to second tread rise would increase by 1/8". 3/8" cap on first read would decrease rise by 3/16". 5/8" cap on second tread would increase rise by 5/16". 5/16" - 3/16" = 2/16" = 1/8". 
Second tread to third tread rise would be unchanged because both tread caps are the same thickness.
Second to last step, from top floor landing tread, to last step before top floor landing tread would decrease by 1/8"...second to last step has a 5/8" cap and last step has a 3/8" cap?
If you're going to do a 7/16" floor on top of you existing second floor a 5/8" tread cap on the step right below the landing tread would decrease the rise by about 1/16". 
A 5/8" cap on the first step from the bottom combined with the new 7/16" bottom floor would decrease the rise by 1/8".


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> The code defines riser height as the distance between the leading edges of the treads on adjacent steps. For the bottom floor to the first step this would be the distance from the floor to the front edge of the tread bullnose. Your plan to add 7/16" flooring and a 3/8" tread cap would decrease this riser by 1/4"....the 7/16" floor decreases the rise by 7/16" and the 3/8" tread cap would increase the rise by 3/16" (half the thickness of the tread). -7/16" + 3/16" = -1/4".
> First tread to second tread rise would increase by 1/8". 3/8" cap on first read would decrease rise by 3/16". 5/8" cap on second tread would increase rise by 5/16". 5/16" - 3/16" = 2/16" = 1/8".
> Second tread to third tread rise would be unchanged because both tread caps are the same thickness.
> Second to last step, from top floor landing tread, to last step before top floor landing tread would decrease by 1/8"...second to last step has a 5/8" cap and last step has a 3/8" cap?
> ...


I have read your impressive reply 3 times but am not sure what conclusion to draw. It sounds as if the steps will be within code if I proceed as planned except for the bottom step. Are you recommending I use a 5/8" tread there? Please correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. I also received this from the town "_Thank you for your inquiry however code enforcement does not regulate inside the home stair repairs, you might want to contact the building dept. at_:.... I will call the building department tomorrow.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I have read your impressive reply 3 times but am not sure what conclusion to draw. It sounds as if the steps will be within code if I proceed as planned except for the bottom step. Are you recommending I use a 5/8" tread there? Please correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. I also received this from the town "_Thank you for your inquiry however code enforcement does not regulate inside the home stair repairs, you might want to contact the building dept. at_:.... I will call the building department tomorrow.


The 5/8" tread cap on the first step from the bottom floor combined with a 7/16" increase in the bottom floor height would result in a 1/8" reduction in the rise. A 3/8" tread cap on the first step from the bottom floor combined with a 7/16" increase in the bottom floor height would result in a 1/4" reduction in the rise.
Seems counterintuitive.....the new floor will decrease the rise height.....a thicker tread cap will increase the rise height more than a thinner tread cap and offset the loss in rise height caused by the new floor. So yes, the 5/8" tread cap on the first step would be better combined with the new floor. I would just double check the rise heights after adding the tread cap and new flooring info to the existing rise numbers. When you do the top landing tread you might consider keeping it the same thickness, 7/16", as the new floor....then the rise change will be a net increase of 1/8".....same principle as the bottom floor and first tread. Still double check all rise info to try and stay within the 3/8" maximum variance.
Good luck with the town. 
Sorry if my explanations are long, rambling, and confusing...thinking and writing for me is like trying to walk and chew gum.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Concerning adding new 7/16" floors over your existing floors, have you considered that you might have to cut down doors, adjust thresholds, and transitions to other surfaces that won't be receiving the new flooring.
Also, FWIW tread (no pun intended) lightly with your local building department.....some cities and towns are 'permit happy' when it comes to what type of work you can do on a residence.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> The 5/8" tread cap on the first step from the bottom floor combined with a 7/16" increase in the bottom floor height would result in a 1/8" reduction in the rise. A 3/8" tread cap on the first step from the bottom floor combined with a 7/16" increase in the bottom floor height would result in a 1/4" reduction in the rise.
> Seems counterintuitive.....the new floor will decrease the rise height.....a thicker tread cap will increase the rise height more than a thinner tread cap and offset the loss in rise height caused by the new floor. So yes, the 5/8" tread cap on the first step would be better combined with the new floor. I would just double check the rise heights after adding the tread cap and new flooring info to the existing rise numbers. When you do the top landing tread you might consider keeping it the same thickness, 7/16", as the new floor....then the rise change will be a net increase of 1/8".....same principle as the bottom floor and first tread. Still double check all rise info to try and stay within the 3/8" maximum variance.
> Good luck with the town.
> Sorry if my explanations are long, rambling, and confusing...thinking and writing for me is like trying to walk and chew gum.


Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately the new tread thickness choice is firm at either 3/8" from one manufacturer (they also provide 5/8" but the shipping cost is prohibitive and there is no discernible difference between the products) and 5/8" from the other. I understand the stringer height shifts, or at least made a valiant attempt, that is shown in the chart I put together. I did not include 5/8" treads for the top and bottom step in that chart however. My calculations showed the only issue I would have is if I replaced the step treads using 3/8" for the top and bottom tread and not replacing the bottom floor. I took actual measurements using samples from the manufacturer so they are not simply derived by adding or subtracting thicknesses mathematically. I measured from top to top not bullnose to bullnose.

One thing that occurs to me is the way the riser height is measured. The landing tread may not change even if the top floor is replaced. At least I have not determined a way to raise the landing tread if the floor is raised other than to cut out the existing landing tread and raising it by the thickness of the new floor. I would prefer to use a transition piece to adjust the height difference if that's at all possible.

At least you can chew gum :grin:


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Concerning adding new 7/16" floors over your existing floors, have you considered that you might have to cut down doors, adjust thresholds, and transitions to other surfaces that won't be receiving the new flooring.
> Also, FWIW tread (no pun intended) lightly with your local building department.....some cities and towns are 'permit happy' when it comes to what type of work you can do on a residence.


There is only one threshold to consider on the main floor, the staircase to the lower floor. I expect to use a transition piece to adjust for the height difference. The floors were carpeted so any doors the new flooring may cross are already trimmed at the bottom and will not be an issue. I am aware I will need to replace the baseboard molding. As for the building department...I know :sad: but thanks for the heads up.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately the new tread thickness choice is firm at either 3/8" from one manufacturer (they also provide 5/8" but the shipping cost is prohibitive and there is no discernible difference between the products) and 5/8" from the other. I understand the stringer height shifts, or at least made a valiant attempt, that is shown in the chart I put together. I did not include 5/8" treads for the top and bottom step in that chart however. My calculations showed the only issue I would have is if I replaced the step treads using 3/8" for the top and bottom tread and not replacing the bottom floor. I took actual measurements using samples from the manufacturer so they are not simply derived by adding or subtracting thicknesses mathematically. I measured from top to top not bullnose to bullnose.
> 
> One thing that occurs to me is the way the riser height is measured. The landing tread may not change even if the top floor is replaced. At least I have not determined a way to raise the landing tread if the floor is raised other than to cut out the existing landing tread and raising it by the thickness of the new floor. I would prefer to use a transition piece to adjust the height difference if that's at all possible.
> 
> At least you can chew gum :grin:


I'm not sure I'm following you on the top floor landing tread. If you remove the current landing tread nosing, add a 7/16" floor including the landing tread and nosing, the height of the landing tread would be raised. Is your concern the making of the landing tread nosing? What am I missing?
Also, I don't know how much the manufacturers' are charging for the tread caps, but have you considered making your own? You seem to have tools and are willing to buy more. Do you own a router?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> I'm not sure I'm following you on the top floor landing tread. If you remove the current landing tread nosing, add a 7/16" floor including the landing tread and nosing, the height of the landing tread would be raised. Is your concern the making of the landing tread nosing? What am I missing?
> Also, I don't know how much the manufacturers' are charging for the tread caps, but have you considered making your own? You seem to have tools and are willing to buy more. Do you own a router?


I was hoping to retain the existing landing tread with a transition piece and not have to replace it. Removing it means cutting it out and ignoring the stringer mortises when the new tread is raised. I don't know what's underneath but I would imagine there is enough support. Capping it with a 3/8 tread is another possibility as you suggest. I'm not adverse to doing either but prefer the easy way out for this if possible.

The new treads are solid oak and not very expensive at about $33 each. I do not own a router, yet.

Tread: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stairtek...nfinished-Red-Oak-Retread-XBTRO1136/202018662


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I was hoping to retain the existing landing tread with a transition piece and not have to replace it. Removing it means cutting it out and ignoring the stringer mortises when the new tread is raised. I don't know what's underneath but I would imagine there is enough support. Capping it with a 3/8 tread is another possibility as you suggest. I'm not adverse to doing either but prefer the easy way out for this if possible.
> 
> The new treads are solid oak and not very expensive at about $33 each. I do not own a router, yet.
> 
> Tread: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stairtek...nfinished-Red-Oak-Retread-XBTRO1136/202018662


You want the new 7/16" flooring to ramp (transition) down to the current landing tread? Why not just install the new flooring over the current landing tread and create a new bull nose and scotia to cover the current landing tread's nose?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> You want the new 7/16" flooring to ramp (transition) down to the current landing tread? Why not just install the new flooring over the current landing tread and create a new bull nose and scotia to cover the current landing tread's nose?


I thought of that and may investigate further and I'm not sure how reliable a home made scotia and bullnose may be. I am considering using a 3/8" tread as the landing tread similar to the ones I am getting for the top and bottom treads but want to check with the manufacturer first. I also believe the manufacturer of the flooring may offer a landing tread or transition piece and need to check that out as well. It will all work out.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I thought of that and may investigate further and I'm not sure how reliable a home made scotia and bullnose may be. I am considering using a 3/8" tread as the landing tread similar to the ones I am getting for the top and bottom treads but want to check with the manufacturer first. I also believe the manufacturer of the flooring may offer a landing tread or transition piece and need to check that out as well. It will all work out.


A homemade landing tread can be just as reliable as one you get from a manufacturer. You would need a router to do the bullnose and scotia.
It's fairly easy to do and you would get to acquire a new skill. Also, depending on how the flooring is installed you may need to make it a custom width. But, if you can get what you need pre-made it will save you the time and effort. 
Making stuff yourself will remove the restriction of having to use what's available from manufacturers.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> A homemade landing tread can be just as reliable as one you get from a manufacturer. You would need a router to do the bullnose and scotia.
> It's fairly easy to do and you would get to acquire a new skill. Also, depending on how the flooring is installed you may need to make it a custom width. But, if you can get what you need pre-made it will save you the time and effort.
> Making stuff yourself will remove the restriction of having to use what's available from manufacturers.


I'm not sure I want to invest in a router, router table, and the necessary bits just for one bullnose. I like to buy better grade tools so I imagine I would be looking at several hundred dollars. For example, I purchased the Diablo industrial grade blades when I got the saws and that added about $400. It's something to consider though because I'm enjoying the wood work.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I'm not sure I want to invest in a router, router table, and the necessary bits just for one bullnose. I like to buy better grade tools so I imagine I would be looking at several hundred dollars. For example, I purchased the Diablo industrial grade blades when I got the saws and that added about $400. It's something to consider though because I'm enjoying the wood work.


I understand. If you find that you need the landing tread custom milled let me know and I can do it and ship it to you.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> I understand. If you find that you need the landing tread custom milled let me know and I can do it and ship it to you.


I really appreciate the offer but will try and tackle this with the rest of the job. You have been very supportive and helpful and I'm sure there will be more questions as I proceed. I will , however, keep your generous offer in my back pocket.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> I understand. If you find that you need the landing tread custom milled let me know and I can do it and ship it to you.


This is what the flooring manufacturer offers for their floating floors. One way or another it looks like the existing landing tread has to be removed. I'll go warm up my reciprocating saw.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oak-Harv...-Nose-Molding-LM5937/202034756?keyword=LM5937


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I am NOT a stair guy ...*

But wouldn't it be advantageous for a manufacturer who offers tread caps to offer them in 3 or more thicknesses?
Maybe a 3/8", a 1/2" and a 3/4" ??? Then you would just have to mix and match them to your riser height requirements and save all this brain bending? :frown2:


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> But wouldn't it be advantageous for a manufacturer who offers tread caps to offer them in 3 or more thicknesses?
> Maybe a 3/8", a 1/2" and a 3/4" ??? Then you would just have to mix and match them to your riser height requirements and save all this brain bending? :frown2:


If only it were so simple. Different floors are connected in different ways. I am installing a click lock floating floor and there is no way to connect a landing tread to the new floor. Click lock flooring is available in thicknesses from 3/8" to 1/2" maybe thicker. Solid oak is nailed/glued tongue and groove 3/4" thick and there are landing treads designed for this as well.

I am not a floor or stairs guy either, but I am learning thanks to all the support from this group.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> This is what the flooring manufacturer offers for their floating floors. One way or another it looks like the existing landing tread has to be removed. I'll go warm up my reciprocating saw.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oak-Harv...-Nose-Molding-LM5937/202034756?keyword=LM5937


What am I missing? Current floor and landing tread are 3/4" thick. New 7/16" floor will be installed on top of the current floor (3/4" + 7/16" = 1 3/16"). If you remove the current landing tread and replace it with this item won't the landing tread be lower than the 1 3/16" floor?
The part you are showing should cover the edge of you floating floor so the floating floor can expand under the lip.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> But wouldn't it be advantageous for a manufacturer who offers tread caps to offer them in 3 or more thicknesses?
> Maybe a 3/8", a 1/2" and a 3/4" ??? Then you would just have to mix and match them to your riser height requirements and save all this brain bending? :frown2:


Absolutely.....but only advantageous for the customer.
To quote Henry Ford 'you can have any color car that you want as long as it is black'.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> What am I missing? Current floor and landing tread are 3/4" thick. New 7/16" floor will be installed on top of the current floor (3/4" + 7/16" = 1 3/16"). If you remove the current landing tread and replace it with this item won't the landing tread be lower than the 1 3/16" floor?
> The part you are showing should cover the edge of you floating floor so the floating floor can expand under the lip.


Once the old landing tread is removed it will be replaced with a shim of great enough size to accommodate the new lipover nose so it meets properly with the new floor. The shim will not have a nose so the lipover notch will abut properly. Alternatively I could cut the nose off of the existing landing tread. At least that's what my email exchange with the manufacturer yielded.

So the dark brown in the image is the shim (or neutered landing tread) and the light brown is the new floor. The black, of course, is the lipover tread.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Once the old landing tread is removed it will be replaced with a shim of great enough size to accommodate the new lipover nose so it meets properly with the new floor. The shim will not have a nose so the lipover notch will abut properly. Alternatively I could cut the nose off of the existing landing tread. At least that's what my email exchange with the manufacturer yielded.
> 
> So the dark brown in the image is the shim (or neutered landing tread) and the light brown is the new floor. The black, of course, is the lipover tread.


Got it!!!
This will be a fun project....keep us posted....pictures.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Got it!!!
> This will be a fun project....keep us posted....pictures.


Absolutely :smile3: 
The 3/8" treads came today and I think I have the stain just about where I want it so buckle up.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Absolutely :smile3:
> The 3/8" treads came today and I think I have the stain just about where I want it so buckle up.


Is a Youtube video a possibility?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Is a Youtube video a possibility?


Never done one and the only video I can take is with my old galaxy S4 phone. I will take pictures of the various steps (no pun intended) and perhaps try some video but no promises. I don't know what is relevant for a video since everything is still new to me.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Never done one and the only video I can take is with my old galaxy S4 phone. I will take pictures of the various steps (no pun intended) and perhaps try some video but no promises. I don't know what is relevant for a video since everything is still new to me.


Everything!!! Before, during, and after.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Everything!!! Before, during, and after.


LOL - do they make a memory card big enough? I could have one of my parrots hold the phone. See, there are the steps in the background.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> LOL - do they make a memory card big enough? I could have one of my parrots hold the phone. See, there are the steps in the background.


Parrots, plural? Then one could provide the narration.
Parrot Productions presents.......


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Parrots, plural? Then one could provide the narration.
> Parrot Productions presents.......


Exactly, you met Thurston, now meet Koko.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Exactly, you met Thurston, now meet Koko.


Hello, very nice to meet you.
Question, they can fly? Then why do anything to the stairs?
Almost forgot....don't forget to get dust masks for them when the sawdust starts to fly!


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Hello, very nice to meet you.
> Question, they can fly? Then why do anything to the stairs?
> Almost forgot....don't forget to get dust masks for them when the sawdust starts to fly!


Koko can fly but the others don't. Some because they are so used to being handled and the smaller ones because they are almost always caged. Our two African Greys are rescues and have some issues. All the birds are moved into our office with the door shut whenever I do any sanding, painting, staining, gluing, or cutting in the house proper. The garage is the workshop for my large power tools and a porch for the staining. We have had parrots for 20 years or more and understand their sensitivities. We are the taxis for them not the other way around


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

How many do you have? Would a group photo be possible?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> How many do you have? Would a group photo be possible?


We have 5 now down from 7. We lost two of the females to egg bearing complications. The two greys are rescues and the cockatoo is about 17 years old. A group photo is difficult because one of the smaller birds is very aggressive and doesn't like any of the other birds near him. I will post the other birds with a brief description.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

You never forget your first riser  and that's a sample tread cap on the end.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> You never forget your first riser  and that's a sample tread cap on the end.


And now that it's on the Internet the rest of the world won't forget either.
Keep those pictures coming!!!!


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

sbrader said:


> I recently replaced the treads and risers on one of our stairways. I made a jig like many of the ones you'll find by Googling it. I'm at work so I can't attach a picture. The jig made cutting the treads very easy. I had an entire stairway torn out and replaced in a couple of hours; including going overboard on the design by drilling pocket holes to cinch everything down tightly. The picture is before I trimmed them out and repainted the walls, etc. around it, but you can see the finished stairs.
> 
> I would recommend doing this rather than capping existing stairs. That allows you to keep the rise and run the same as what you currently have.
> 
> Scott


I think I forgot to mention in my reply that the stairs you posted look absolutely great. I hope mine turn out as nice.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

One of you fine people here asked why I am replacing the floor at the bottom of the stairs. If you look at the image below you will see the damage. This floor has already been refinished at least once when I had some improvements done. I have no idea what the floor looks like under the carpet but I do know the previous owner used the room for a dining room and had a table that seated 12.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

As a point of reference this is what the stairs looked like after I pulled up the carpet.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> And now that it's on the Internet the rest of the world won't forget either.
> Keep those pictures coming!!!!


Pictures you want? Pictures you get.

This set shows how I selected the color to match the flooring I will be installing. I purchased a red oak strip and applied the various stains I was interested in to different sections. None were the match I wanted so the second picture shows the flip side of the test wood after mixing the stains. Finally the last picture shows the mix that most closely matched the sample piece of flooring. Five parts Minwax Gunstock and four parts Minwax Red Oak.

The last image (rotated by the site when I posted) is the stack of risers painted and ready to be cut to size.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

The new stair treads and testing the stain on the back of one of them.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Now to get down to business with the treads. First tread stained with the sample flooring for comparison.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Looking good! I admire your diligence on working out the color.
You are making good progress.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Looking good! I admire your diligence on working out the color.
> You are making good progress.


Thanks, it's been educational. Here are the treads drying from the third coat of poly. Tomorrow they start becoming part of the house. I used Minwax products for all staining. I started with wood preparation, then the stain, and finally semi gloss polyurethane. All oil base for durability and because I am doing the work on a covered porch and away from the living quarters and the birds.

I have a question if anyone can help. I lightly sanded the poly between coats. Is there anything I can or should do after the final coat like buff or even lightly sand again?


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Thanks, it's been educational. Here are the treads drying from the third coat of poly. Tomorrow they start becoming part of the house. I used Minwax products for all staining. I started with wood preparation, then the stain, and finally semi gloss polyurethane. All oil base for durability and because I am doing the work on a covered porch and away from the living quarters and the birds.
> 
> I have a question if anyone can help. I lightly sanded the poly between coats. Is there anything I can or should do after the final coat like buff or even lightly sand again?


Just leave them as is. One thing you can do is think about a stair runner as polyurethaned treads can be slippery depending on your footwear. 
P.S. You used a flooring poly? You want a good build for long wear. You could even do more coats if you have the time and desire.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Just leave them as is. One thing you can do is think about a stair runner as polyurethaned treads can be slippery depending on your footwear.
> P.S. You used a flooring poly? You want a good build for long wear. You could even do more coats if you have the time and desire.


Yes, I did use a flooring poly. No runner for me. I didn't work this hard on the stairs just to hide them. :wink2:


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Yes, I did use a flooring poly. No runner for me. I didn't work this hard on the stairs just to hide them. :wink2:


I know how you feel....you are not alone. I and others have felt the same way. I had nightmares just thinking of hammering down a tackles strip. I cringed at the thought of narrow crown carpet staples penetrating the oak treads.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

First tread and riser down (two actually but I didn't take a picture with the second one) And the steps have an admirer, Lovey, one of my African Grey's.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Lookin' good!!! Is Lovey verbal?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Lookin' good!!! Is Lovey verbal?


Lovey is a rescue bird and currently only says one word, hello. His previous owner told us the bird used to chat incessantly and had a large vocabulary. When the previous owner changed her routine Lovey did not take it well (most greys do not like change) and started plucking feathers and stopped talking. After 15 or so years we have had him he still only says hello.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Lovey is a rescue bird and currently only says one word, hello. His previous owner told us the bird used to chat incessantly and had a large vocabulary. When the previous owner changed her routine Lovey did not take it well (most greys do not like change) and started plucking feathers and stopped talking. After 15 or so years we have had him he still only says hello.


Do the birds communicate with each other?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Do the birds communicate with each other?


Actually they do by whistling. I often hear pop goes the weasel with one of them doing one part and another doing the next part. They toot back and forth all the time too.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Actually they do by whistling. I often hear pop goes the weasel with one of them doing one part and another doing the next part. They toot back and forth all the time too.


If you started pop goes the weasel would they respond or ignore the imposter (you) in their midst?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> If you started pop goes the weasel would they respond or ignore the imposter (you) in their midst?


We all take part in the serenade. Sometimes they make up their own tunes too. It can be quite funny. My desk has several cubbyholes for envelopes and such, at least that's what the designer had in mind. All of them have been taken over by Thurston, our other rescue African Grey. He uses them to rip up paper and other toys. That's his butt sticking out.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Well, the treads would have been finished today except the final tread was bowed front to back. I never noticed it or I would have returned it before starting the staining work. So now I have about 70 pounds of cement blocks sitting on it over a thin rug on a concrete floor. If it does not correct in a day or so I guess I will just have to replace it and start over again. It's not that expensive, about $34, but it will waste a week for finishing and curing. Oh well, maybe I should start on the floor in the meantime. I need to find a gadget other than a jig saw to make the necessary cuts in the wood laminate if I can.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Well, the treads would have been finished today except the final tread was bowed front to back. I never noticed it or I would have returned it before starting the staining work. So now I have about 70 pounds of cement blocks sitting on it over a thin rug on a concrete floor. If it does not correct in a day or so I guess I will just have to replace it and start over again. It's not that expensive, about $34, but it will waste a week for finishing and curing. Oh well, maybe I should start on the floor in the meantime. I need to find a gadget other than a jig saw to make the necessary cuts in the wood laminate if I can.


What kind of cuts do you need to make?
Where'd you get the treads? Where have you been storing them? Careful with putting wood on concrete....moisture.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> What kind of cuts do you need to make?
> Where'd you get the treads? Where have you been storing them? Careful with putting wood on concrete....moisture.


Cuts? Not sure what you mean. I need to trim the sides and depth to fit the stairway. The treads are from Lowes. I put them in the house proper a few days before installing them. The warped one is in the den on a rug over concrete with the poly side down and two cement blocks on it. I wanted a hard flat floor to try and straighten it out. It's bowed slightly towards the unfinished side.

http://www.lowes.com/pd/RetroTread-11-5-in-x-42-in-Stair-Tread/3191553


----------



## Fitz (Jul 11, 2016)

It could be the moisture in the finish itself that bowed the boards if they are thin. It's not a bad idea to put at least one thin coat on the backside to equalize the pressure.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Cuts? Not sure what you mean. I need to trim the sides and depth to fit the stairway. The treads are from Lowes. I put them in the house proper a few days before installing them. The warped one is in the den on a rug over concrete with the poly side down and two cement blocks on it. I wanted a hard flat floor to try and straighten it out. It's bowed slightly towards the unfinished side.
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/pd/RetroTread-11-5-in-x-42-in-Stair-Tread/3191553


Ideally, Table Saw to trim the length. Sliding Miter Saw or Table Saw Sled to trim the width. But if you don't have these clamp on a straight edge and use a Circular Saw or Jig Saw. Use fine tooth blades to get a clean cut. Red Oak can be splintery to cut.
Oil or Water based poly?


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

If you trim the length on a table saw a rip blade would be the best type of blade to use.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Ideally, Table Saw to trim the length. Sliding Miter Saw or Table Saw Sled to trim the width. But if you don't have these clamp on a straight edge and use a Circular Saw or Jig Saw. Use fine tooth blades to get a clean cut. Red Oak can be splintery to cut.
> Oil or Water based poly?


I purchased a new DeWalt table saw and compound sliding miter saw for this and future jobs. I also purchased a Diablo industrial 80 tooth 12" blade for the miter saw and a 50 tooth combo blade for the table saw. Both work great and here are the results. Pictures are before and after. I still need to do the landing tread at the top of the staircase (just got the piece today) and the molding for the stringers. The picture got rotated by the site and I don't see any way to correct it.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Fitz said:


> It could be the moisture in the finish itself that bowed the boards if they are thin. It's not a bad idea to put at least one thin coat on the backside to equalize the pressure.


It was only one board that was slightly bowed and I never noticed it until I went to mark it for the cut. I put it on two pieces of wood about 1/2" thick the length of the tread. I then put two 35 pound cement blocks (wrapped in towels) on the board. It did not change after two days. Lowes acknowledged the defect and gave me a refund even though one side was stained and poly'd. When I went to choose a replacement tread I found many were warped in a similar fashion to the one I returned. It took me a while to find one that was not warped and had the grain characteristics I liked.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

And let's not forget Lovey doing an inspection.


----------



## mat 60 (Jul 9, 2012)

I think I can hear Lovey saying get the darn stairs done........They look great by the way.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

mat 60 said:


> I think I can hear Lovey saying get the darn stairs done........They look great by the way.


Thank you, and Lovey agrees, get 'er done  . Upstairs hall floor next so I can install the final riser and landing tread.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Thank you, and Lovey agrees, get 'er done  . Upstairs hall floor next so I can install the final riser and landing tread.


2 thumbs up!!!! Did Lovey give 2 wings up?
Did you get a 12 inch Table Saw and 12 Inch Sliding Compound Miter Saw? Looks like you're gearing up for more projects!!!


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> 2 thumbs up!!!! Did Lovey give 2 wings up?
> Did you get a 12 inch Table Saw and 12 Inch Sliding Compound Miter Saw? Looks like you're gearing up for more projects!!!


Thanks and a talon up as well from Lovey. I'll know he really likes it when he poops on it.

10 inch table saw and 12 inch sliding compound miter saw, dual bevel. I don't see myself needing anything more than a 10 inch table saw. The 12 inch miter saw was necessary for the depth of the treads. As it is I had to manually complete the cut about 1/4 inch. Removing the landing tread tomorrow and leveling out the hall floor up to the new tread. then I'll install a temporary landing tread while I do the hall floor. the flooring has been cooking for about 4 days now and the new landing tread came today.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Thanks and a talon up as well from Lovey. I'll know he really likes it when he poops on it.
> 
> 10 inch table saw and 12 inch sliding compound miter saw, dual bevel. I don't see myself needing anything more than a 10 inch table saw. The 12 inch miter saw was necessary for the depth of the treads. As it is I had to manually complete the cut about 1/4 inch. Removing the landing tread tomorrow and leveling out the hall floor up to the new tread. then I'll install a temporary landing tread while I do the hall floor. the flooring has been cooking for about 4 days now and the new landing tread came today.


Lovey's contribution is the sign of good luck, isn't it?
Poly should make it Lovey-proof!!!


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

I posted this on another older thread but thought I might get some help here.

I just completed installing new stair treads except for the landing tread. I am installing click-lock engineered wood flooring over existing oak flooring in the upstairs hall. The oak flooring in the hall has a significant dip as it approaches the landing tread and I have been looking for some way to level it. I am interested in the LevelQuick product but their site states "Do not bond directly to hardwood...". Is there another product I can use or a method of using this product on hardwood? The level difference is about 1/4 inch sloping up to the main floor over about 6 inches and about 36 inches wide.

My current approach is to rip up the existing flooring that is sloping and simply install the correct height wood to level with the main floor. Not sure if this is the best approach but I need to level the floor before installing the new click-lock flooring.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I posted this on another older thread but thought I might get some help here.
> 
> I just completed installing new stair treads except for the landing tread. I am installing click-lock engineered wood flooring over existing oak flooring in the upstairs hall. The oak flooring in the hall has a significant dip as it approaches the landing tread and I have been looking for some way to level it. I am interested in the LevelQuick product but their site states "Do not bond directly to hardwood...". Is there another product I can use or a method of using this product on hardwood? The level difference is about 1/4 inch sloping up to the main floor over about 6 inches and about 36 inches wide.
> 
> My current approach is to rip up the existing flooring that is sloping and simply install the correct height wood to level with the main floor. Not sure if this is the best approach but I need to level the floor before installing the new click-lock flooring.





How about taking some Aquabar B or roofing felt and do a topographical type build up. As an example, assuming it's a dip, lay a piece across the 6 inches. Make the next piece 5 inches and center it in the middle of the dip. Make the next piece 4 inches and center it in the middle of the dip. Make the next piece(s) etc. Of course you might need more layers in the deepest part. This way the dip slowly transitions back to the level you want.
Aquabar B is a vapor retarder that is used instead of roofing felt..Aquabar B is virtually odorless and clean to work with.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> How about taking some Aquabar B or roofing felt and do a topographical type build up. As an example, assuming it's a dip, lay a piece across the 6 inches. Make the next piece 5 inches and center it in the middle of the dip. Make the next piece 4 inches and center it in the middle of the dip. Make the next piece(s) etc. Of course you might need more layers in the deepest part. This way the dip slowly transitions back to the level you want.
> Aquabar B is a vapor retarder that is used instead of roofing felt..Aquabar B is virtually odorless and clean to work with.


Yet another great tip learned for this project, thanks. I will definitely look into that. Now that I've taken a closer look at the floor it's kind of a micro roller coaster. There are some parts the felt might work but others are simply slight rises or dips. The worst is at the landing tread. I got the original landing tread out today and discovered the sub floor has about a 3/16" difference under the original oak flooring across the width of the stairs.

I believe the culprit for the the gap is/was a poorly installed spike when the house was built. It was higher than other spikes and with some difficulty I was able to remove it. I tried driving a nail in it's place but could only get as far as the original spike. I drove the nail an inch or so to one side without any problems so I suspect there is something blocking the original path.

With the landing tread removed and the two pieces of flooring behind it also removed I should be able to install a level base for the new landing tread. The original tread was anchored to the stringers by one nail on each side and came out easily once it was cut in half. I used bolt cutters to cut the two nails as short as possible and then drove the nails back into the stringers. I will probably cut the ends off the old landing tread and make a flush plug, so to speak, to blind out the mortises in the stringers. I'm not sure the new landing tread will be the right height if I try and use the mortises. The new tread is not the same thickness either.

With respect to the wavy floor I have added another tool to my arsenal, a belt sander.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

I have the floor as level as it's going to be but it seems there may be a 'high' joist issue that makes the landing tread area off by quite a bit from one side of the landing area to the other. Anyway, there's nothing I can do about that. I have even had a coupe of pros look at it and say the same thing.

I have another question if someone can help. Once the new flooring is down and I am ready to install the new landing tread I am not sure how to attach it to the new riser and sub floor (the original oak floor in this case). The new landing tread is a lip over type that is designed to cover the edge of the new flooring. It will sit on the edge of the original oak flooring and new riser for support and is fully exposed. Is there any way I can mechanically fasten the landing tread besides adhesive? I would like to use a couple of nails or screws to help keep it secure.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I used construction adhesive and 8d or 10d finish nails one regular landing treads.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

BigJim said:


> I used construction adhesive and 8d or 10d finish nails one regular landing treads.


But that's the problem. There is nowhere to drive the nail unless I pin punch them below the surface and use wood filler for the holes. That's something I'm trying to avoid. I followed the link you provided but am unsure what you are pointing me to. Are you suggesting I join that site as well and post my question?


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Darkk Helmet said:


> But that's the problem. There is nowhere to drive the nail unless I pin punch them below the surface and use wood filler for the holes. That's something I'm trying to avoid. I followed the link you provided but am unsure what you are pointing me to. Are you suggesting I join that site as well and post my question?


Yes, you would have to set the nails. The link is in my signature, it is on all my posts.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

BigJim said:


> Yes, you would have to set the nails. The link is in my signature, it is on all my posts.


I see, thanks. I will do what I have to to make certain it is secured properly. I just could not think of the word "set" in my last reply.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> I have the floor as level as it's going to be but it seems there may be a 'high' joist issue that makes the landing tread area off by quite a bit from one side of the landing area to the other. Anyway, there's nothing I can do about that. I have even had a coupe of pros look at it and say the same thing.
> 
> I have another question if someone can help. Once the new flooring is down and I am ready to install the new landing tread I am not sure how to attach it to the new riser and sub floor (the original oak floor in this case). The new landing tread is a lip over type that is designed to cover the edge of the new flooring. It will sit on the edge of the original oak flooring and new riser for support and is fully exposed. Is there any way I can mechanically fasten the landing tread besides adhesive? I would like to use a couple of nails or screws to help keep it secure.


PL Premium Adhesive. I like trim heads screws rather than nails. Countersink and fill them or cut plugs and plug them. If you are careful with the color/grain match they will be nearly invisible. In case they are somewhat visible space them so that they line up and look 'neat'.
You can make contrasting plugs too.
Attach it to the sub floor....not the new flooring.
A landing tread is a high stress area so make sure it is secure.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> PL Premium Adhesive. I like trim heads screws rather than nails. Countersink and fill them or cut plugs and plug them. If you are careful with the color/grain match they will be nearly invisible. In case they are somewhat visible space them so that they line up and look 'neat'.
> You can make contrasting plugs too.
> Attach it to the sub floor....not the new flooring.
> A landing tread is a high stress area so make sure it is secure.


Those are my thoughts too, thanks. What spacing would you suggest between the screws? Is one at either end enough? That's all the original landing tread had. One nail driven through the stringer on each side. Of course the original landing tread was also a mortise and the new one will not be.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Those are my thoughts too, thanks. What spacing would you suggest between the screws? Is one at either end enough? That's all the original landing tread had. One nail driven through the stringer on each side. Of course the original landing tread was also a mortise and the new one will not be.


Personally I like more.....but I tend to overdo. I'd do at least 3. Not knowing how the hardwood subfloor is attached I'd used screws long enough to penetrate it and go into the subfloor below it.
Also, if there is a surface film finish on the hardwood subfloor below you may want to scuff it or remove so the adhesive won't be attached to just a film finish.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> Personally I like more.....but I tend to overdo. I'd do at least 3. Not knowing how the hardwood subfloor is attached I'd used screws long enough to penetrate it and go into the subfloor below it.
> Also, if there is a surface film finish on the hardwood subfloor below you may want to scuff it or remove so the adhesive won't be attached to just a film finish.


The new landing tread will not be over the old hardwood floor except for the lip over at the new flooring. The new landing tread will be over a new riser and probably spacer. I used poplar for the other risers but plan on using oak for this last one and any spacer if it's feasible so the landing tread has adequate support. I'll take some pictures when the storm is over.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> The new landing tread will not be over the old hardwood floor except for the lip over at the new flooring. The new landing tread will be over a new riser and probably spacer. I used poplar for the other risers but plan on using oak for this last one and any spacer if it's feasible so the landing tread has adequate support. I'll take some pictures when the storm is over.


How wide is the new landing tread?


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

JIMMIEM said:


> How wide is the new landing tread?


34 1/2" wide X 3" deep including the lip over.


----------



## Darkk Helmet (May 1, 2016)

Drum roll please  The steps and hall floor are complete except for the trim. My phone committed suicide or I would have posted during the work. The landing tread took as long as it took me to do the entire hall floor. The new landing tread is secured with three trim screws 2 inches long. I took a closeup of one of the screws in the tread and am considering just leaving it as is. The other two are at either end 1/2 inch from the edge of the tread. I shimmed the base with oak so it would be able to hold the screws. The shim is also glued and screwed to the riser and original oak floor. So here are a few pictures including one before I started after the rug was removed.

I have to once again thank everyone for their help and advice. I also contributed a fair amount of money to various tool manufacturers.


----------



## JIMMIEM (Oct 12, 2014)

Darkk Helmet said:


> Drum roll please  The steps and hall floor are complete except for the trim. My phone committed suicide or I would have posted during the work. The landing tread took as long as it took me to do the entire hall floor. The new landing tread is secured with three trim screws 2 inches long. I took a closeup of one of the screws in the tread and am considering just leaving it as is. The other two are at either end 1/2 inch from the edge of the tread. I shimmed the base with oak so it would be able to hold the screws. The shim is also glued and screwed to the riser and original oak floor. So here are a few pictures including one before I started after the rug was removed.
> 
> I have to once again thank everyone for their help and advice. I also contributed a fair amount of money to various tool manufacturers.


Excellent!!!!! Update the resume!!!!
Would the parrots be agreeable to a group photo perched on the landing tread?
The tool manufacturers and we, your fans thank you!
Let us know when your next project will begin.
Regards to Lovey et al.


----------

