# What DC fits me?



## PopesCreations (Aug 24, 2016)

I am in the process of buying a house right now (everything is going good). I don't have a shop on the property yet so in the mean time I will be using the attached garage. I have just been using a heavy duty 6.5hp shop vac and switching the hose over between all my tools. Some people have the patience for that but I am not one of those people. Haha.
I would like to invest in a dust collection system for the tools I use most often and ones producing most chips (planer, jointer, table saw, radial arm saw, router table, and hopefully one of these days a cnc). I havent really looked at options out there yet just because I'm not sure what I need. 

My garage is 24x30. I don't know where I will situate everything yet but plan on duct work running full length of garage. I would probably add blast doors on everything and just open what I need. 

I would like some sort of cyclone/chip separator. How big of dust collector would I need? 1.5, 2.5, 5hp? What can be had for around 1000? Cheaper would be better yet. It's just a hobby job after all. I will be rewiring garage for whatever I need so I can add 220 if necessary.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

HP isn't a good way of measuring a DC. Most small ones sold don't have enough filter area and quickly become so caked they don't pass anywhere near the original (over stated) flow. The CFM ratings on cheap collectors are usually stated as being w/o any resistance (free air.) In addition to the CFM rating you need to know the static pressure that the unit will generate @ the CFM you need for the tool. Fans can be designed as material handling for push through systems or more efficient reverse inclined for pull through systems where they don't handle material (the cyclone and filters come before the fan.) The use of a cyclone or even just a drop box ahead of the filter will keep the filter cleaner and more efficient and save a lot of filter cleaning time. Look around for a used 3hp fan mounted on top of a cyclone that drops the chips into a barrel or bin. It will have larger filter bags hanging off to one side. Torit is a good brand but they are expensive new. Cartridge filters have more filter area in the same space as bags but are easily plugged and a pain to clean if you don't keep them serviced. A well designed fan, cyclone and filter will use 1/2 the electricity and move more air at higher pressures than the typical cheap bag over plastic bag units. Put the unit outside if at all possible. All filters allow some dust to pass through, you don't want to breath it. Putting it out side fixes that. Also the fans are noisy, and the collectors are somewhat of a fire hazard. A tiny spark mixed with a stream of sanding dust can be explosive.


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## Johnnie_dr (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi PopesC,

As most of us on this forum, I monitor several others. There's a good active discussion going on over at Router forums (since they make dust too) about setting up a Harbor Freight DC, combined with thein baffle chip collectors. here's the thread: http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/107298-hf-dust-collector-flow-measurements.html

I too have a Harbor Freight DC (paid about $150 after using a 25% off coupon). if you are not familiar with it, it has a 2hp motor and is rated at about 1500cfm. Here a link to it: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html. Of course...if you DO have $1000 buck to spend, well a nice 2-3 hp Cyclone would be great.

I started as you did, with a shop vac, but soon found that very inadequate...aside from clean the shop floor. I have a 20 x 24ft basement shop and do hobby projects too. The HF DC is an excellent choice for a great price and with a few upgrades, like adding a pleated filter, rather than a bag filter, plus adding a thein baffle or Onieda Dust Deputy. I have a 4 inch run of PVC with drops to my table saw, chop saw, jointer, router table and planer. They have blast gates and I open and close them depending on the machine I'm using.

Here's a link to show my Shop

Hope this helps...and have fun

Johnnie


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Too many options?*

About 10 years ago I purchased 2 - Jet 1100 dust collectors, 1 1/2 HP on 120 V and 1100 CFM with the pleated cannister filters. I tried several inline chip separators and several shop built internal cones with not a whole lot of success. The inline separators took up valuable space in my small shop and did not have casters while the DC units did and therefore were not easily moved about, which I need. That prompted the research into the internal baffles and cones. Currently, I am using them as they came, stock.

If I had it to do over, I would get the new Jet Vortex cone DC at around $700.00
https://www.amazon.com/Jet-DC-1100V...ollector+1.5hp+w+canister+filter+dc-1100vx-ck
I haven't given up on making an internal baffle or cone, just haven't been all that inspired.

I found a video on making your own:





There are ways to modify the Harbor Freight DC with a Thein separator and a cannister filter, but if you add up the total cost you are close to the Jet Vortex:





You can also exhaust the dust out of the shop through the wall either outside or into a separate filter:





Frankly, I am not all that impressed with the cyclones for a small shop, unless they are on the shop vacs and then they are tall and tipsy and also take up additional floor space. The Dust Deputy and the shop built versions make the best sense. However, I have found that even a badly clogged pleated filter inside my Rigid 6.5 HP shop still has a very power suction stream, so I don't use the cyclone on mine. Yes they are nasty to clean, but I I unscrew they gently deposit them in the bottom of that collection barrel and empty and clean the whole shootin' match outside facing into the wind.

A cyclone DC of 2 or 3 HP is a large footprint, has less CFM than 
a comparable single stage, and has way less chip capacity and that's important when doing a lot of planing and jointing. You can capture all the fine dust you want, but you stop every 15 minutes to empty the chips. 

I have both a 12" and a 24" dual drum sander ... talk about a whole volume of dust! I attach the short 4" flex hose directly to the dust port when I'm using them and it works pretty well. There are no long pipe or flex hose runs in my shop and that's why the mobility factor is important. I just roll the Jet over to the machine I'm using and in some cases it can serve both a sander or the planer without moving it.

There''s a lot of scientific discussion about CFM, static pressure, inches of water, micron size, etc. none of which I totally understand. I get the basics, but when it comes to measuring air flow at the end of a pipe run, I don't own an air flow meter other than the palm of my hand .... so that and the seat of my pants are my instruments of choice. It either works or not. What I have come to understand is that "air flow in" should approximate "air flow out" and if your bag filter is all clogged up, you have lost you efficiency. Cannister filter have many times the filter surface area of a bag, but don't ask me how much more, too technical ... :wink2:

The table saw is a special case because most saws have a large cabinet underneath which collects the dust that's cast off the spinning blade, settles at the bottom and then gets sucked into the 4" port at the base, not a very efficient system. The new table saws, and portable saws have a blade housing that surrounds the spinning blade and captures almost all the dust sending it out a shop vac size port. This works great and maybe the cabinet saws will all have this feature.... maybe Saw Stop does now, I donno?
The contractor saws are especially difficult to seal off and make dust collection more efficient. 


You can review the specs of both cyclones and single stage collectors here:
http://www.grizzly.com/dust-collectors
Hope this was helpful.


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

I'm a little late to this party, but having just installed a 4" system in my daughter's shop, and having had a 4" single stage system in my own shop for a number of years, I have an opinion. 

I have never had an issue with a single stage collector. I am a hobbyist. I make sawdust on some evenings and weekends. I have a full complement of dust makers (planer, jointer, table, radial and band, lathe, yada, yada, yada).

On occasion, if I'm planing a buttload of rough cut lumber for a large project, I do have to empty the bag more frequently. Of course, after standing over the boring planer for 45 minutes or so, I don't mind at all taking a break to loosen the ear muffs, switch bags and get a drink. I give the upper bag filter a few punches before removing the bag, and that is quite sufficient to keep the chips flowing.

Otherwise, the dust I create from round saws, band saws or sanders won't fill a bag in several months. Add the router table or jointer and maybe it's down to a month. For me? So what. Part of the hobby.

Every evening (assuming I'm into a project) before I turn in for the night, I walk over to the filter bag and give it punch or two (or three). I can visualize anyone I want at that moment, and knock their block off! The machine is ready for the next session.

As a hobbyist, I simply cannot justify Oneida or Laguna cyclone equipment. The single stage I use now can more than keep up with me, even if I'm having a fit and cutting up scraps for the fireplace. Were I in business and time was money, I wouldn't be using 4" PVC anyway. I'd have equipment sized for the job.

Therefore, I would suggest that you start with a single stage collector, get your pipe runs and blast gates in place, and run it. Pay close attention to fits; keep vacuum leakage to a minimum. Use long sweep bends and as little hose to the tool as you can get away with. You can get pretty decent flows if you keep your runs smooth and straight. 

It'll suck.


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