# Planer sled



## jeruss (Oct 28, 2009)

Hi, Guys. I recently bought a 12.5" benchtop planer. The red oak boards were bowed some so I thought I would make a planer sled to try and get a flat surface. I do not have a jointer. I glued two pieces of MDF together. They were about 10" wide and a little over 5' long. I noticed that the MDF had some sag in it depending on where I rested it. Therefore, I decided to rip some true strips of plywood to attach to the sides to serve as runners. I thought that my sled was flat. After shimming the boards and running them through the planer with the concave side down, a slight bow in the other direction was created. I think that I can just plane the other side of the boards to get uniform thickness and will be able to use them. What could have caused the boards to be planed with a slight bow in the other direction? Was my sled not 100% true?


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

The sled may not be the problem.

The wood was likely pushing itself against the planer blades in the middle more than at the ends. A slight difference in the cut, but if you have enough passes, the difference accumulates.

Without a jointer, I would have tried doing the same as you.

Another option for the future is getting a hand plane to see if you can take off the high spots to get closer before planing.


----------



## banjopicks (Jan 3, 2009)

I think your runners must have been below the highest point of your board. The way I see it you would need the runners to be slightly taller than the board to start with. Is that what you did or did you attach them with the top of the edges of the board?


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*there's a lot of ways to make a planer sled*

Thought I would try this since I already had the frames set up for glue ups. Explanation here:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/planer-sled-rails-14940/


----------



## jeruss (Oct 28, 2009)

The runners are below the bottom of the board. I glued and screwed them to the sides of the MDF because I didn't think that the MDF would be rigid enough and would flex or bend.


----------



## banjopicks (Jan 3, 2009)

I guess I was thinking of gluing the runners to the sides of the board. In that case they'd have to be taller. The way your doing it there isn't any support under the middle allowing the board to be pushed flat by the rollers before it starts cutting. To reverse the cup it would have to be popping back up as it gets to the cutters right? Need something solid under the board throughout the cut.


----------



## jeruss (Oct 28, 2009)

I attached strips of plywood to the bottom of the sled in the middle to avoid that.


----------



## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

I don't even attempt this because a planer is the wrong tool for the job. How about a used jointer?


----------



## jhagan321 (Aug 14, 2012)

jointer is the only way to go


----------



## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I need to do the same thing. So guys, what if you don't have a jointer and/or no room to put one even if one was available. Just table saw, thickness planer and router table (which I use to joint the edges of the boards). Buying the rough stuff is considerably cheaper than the surfaced on one side and one edge. It looks to me like a planer sled is the way to go...slow going even.


----------



## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

Buying the rough boards may be cheaper, but even WITH a jointer, processing them takes a considerable amount of time. W/O a jointer, it'd be like pissing in the wind. How much is your time & aggravation worth? At best it would be so worth your while to just buy the surfaced boards. Where I live, they're maybe 50 cents more a BF.

Now, I like cars. I'd love to have a nice weekend car. I don't have the space, money, or tools. So I just dream. To try and build an awesome hotrod in my driveway with $1000 and a 10 pc. wrench set just aint gonna happen. I admitted that to myself long ago, it's just reality.........

BTW, personally, if I did just buy the surfaced boards, I would feel compelled to re-mill them. The lumber company just can't take the time to do the job to my standards. That's the real reason I joint & surface them myself.....


----------



## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Next to the table saw I think the jointer is the most important tool in my shop. I guess I would have a hard time doing most work without one. I give you credit for trying, but I really would think seriously about how to fit a jointer in the shop. Life would be sooo much easier.


----------



## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I thought I'd add my two cents.... if you get a jointer, I suggest getting one that is easy to setup and adjust. I got a jointer that was not easy to adjust and it's been a royal pain in the neck. I found that my planer required basically no adjustments to get it to work out of the box. But I've had to fiddle with the jointer table and knives and everything else. 

That being said, if you're looking to get a jointer and don't want to break the bank, take a look at the jointer I bought. The Harbor Freight 6 inch jointer. It's got a powerful 1 HP motor and is a free standing machine. The tables on mine are flat. It's a hell of a lot of jointer for the money, especially if you find it on sale and combine it with one of their 20% off coupons.

The biggest problem with this jointer is that putting the stand together is the opposite of pleasant. And the instructions are sparse and poorly written.

But the fine folks on here should be able to help you. They've been of great help to me.


----------



## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

> I suggest getting one that is easy to setup and adjust.


Maybe you could suggest one? I have always considered a jointer to be a high maintenance thing just because of what it is. The knives dull quick. There are a lot of parts that interact and affect one another. I have a JET 6", and it was a $400 machine new, and it's been pretty good to me. About my only complaint really is I could use more capacity.


----------



## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

TooPicky said:


> Buying the rough boards may be cheaper, but even WITH a jointer, processing them takes a considerable amount of time. W/O a jointer, it'd be like pissing in the wind. How much is your time & aggravation worth? At best it would be so worth your while to just buy the surfaced boards. Where I live, they're maybe 50 cents more a BF.
> .


Surfaced doesn't mean flat/straight, just smooth. Most of the time it's just as useless as the lumber you buy at Home Depot. The jointer is an absolutely indispensable piece of shop equipment, especially if your projects include and precise joinery.


----------



## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

I agree about a 6-inch jointer being too small. When I was a kid my Dad a carpenter and avid woodworker had a 4-inch jointer which he thought was the top of the world (this was back in the 50's). When I started I first had a 4-inch, then I upgraded to a 6-inch Tiawan built jointer. After about 15-years I decided it was time for a new jointer I could not afford or justify an 8-inch so I bought a 6-inch Delta Professional model. WHile I like the planer I have found that 6-inch has its limitations. If I were younger and had the available funds I would have a 10-inch.

As for set up of the blades I use a Magna-Set. It is a magnetic arm that hangs over the blade and holds it at the proper height. You can set the blades within .002 and they all can be done within 10 or 15 minutes. In addiition, I sharpen my own blades and I keep a set ready to be installed whenever necessary.


----------



## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

> In addiition, I sharpen my own blades and I keep a set ready to be installed whenever necessary


There is the benefit to being a wood AND a metal guy. Last time I did the knives in my jointer, I took them to work and sharpened them. Came out pretty good. But, I have no special tools to install them, so I just compensate with swearing.


----------



## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

I can suggest the Harbor Freight 6 inch jointer. It won't break the bank. BUT, it is a pain in the ass to set up. If you know anyone locally that knows jointers and can go over it with you then you might have a winner. I do not, therefore I know it's not "tuned" right. When I looked at other jointers the starting price was around 500 bucks and I couldn't find any used in my area.

Swearing is also highly useful.


----------



## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Try Craigslist. I bought a used Rigid 6 1/8 for 150 bucks. Worth every penny and then some. And learning how to set up all your shop machinery is really important. The equipment is useless if you can't change knives and dial it all in. Take the time to learn how, it eliminates the cussing ;-)


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you can do it!*



Purrmaster said:


> I can suggest the Harbor Freight 6 inch jointer. It won't break the bank. BUT, it is a pain in the ass to set up. If you know anyone locally that knows jointers and can go over it with you then you might have a winner. I do not, therefore I know it's not "tuned" right. When I looked at other jointers the starting price was around 500 bucks and I couldn't find any used in my area.
> 
> Swearing is also highly useful.


There are several ways to set and check the height of the knives. I use a straight block with a mark. I rest the block on the outfeed table and rotate the knives forward as if they were cutting. This will propel the block forward and by adjusting the height on each side and each kive so the block moves the sawe amount no matter where you put it on the table or which knife you use. I try to achieve about 1/16" of forward travel.

Thintz uses a micrometer called a One Way Guage. It's fairly expensive but sets them dead on. 

This will help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu0OADJAikw&feature=relmfu


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> There are several ways to set and check the height of the knives. I use a straight block with a mark.* I rest the block on the outfeed table and rotate the knives forward as if they were cutting. This will propel the block forward and by adjusting the height on each side and each kive so the block moves the sawe amount no matter where you put it on the table or which knife you use.* *I try to achieve about 1/16" of forward travel.*


If the knives are set to move the block, sounds like they are set higher than the outfeed table, not flush.








 







.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Yup*



cabinetman said:


> If the knives are set to move the block, sounds like they are set higher than the outfeed table, not flush.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


about .002 if you watched the video... pretty close for most applications. With an adjustable out feed table you can zero it out. With a fixed outfeed table that's as close as I need. BTW, I have 4 jointers with adjustable tables and 1 with a fixed or non-adjustable outfeed table so it's not really a problem for me.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> about .002 if you watched the video... pretty close for most applications. With an adjustable out feed table you can zero it out. With a fixed outfeed table that's as close as I need. BTW, I have 4 jointers with adjustable tables and 1 with a fixed or non-adjustable outfeed table so it's not really a problem for me.


It wouldn't matter if you had a dozen jointers, if the knives are set too high. With offering an adjustment method for those with one jointer, it's adjusting the knives to be flush with the outfeed table. 









 







.


----------



## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> It wouldn't matter if you had a dozen jointers, if the knives are set too high. With offering an adjustment method for those with one jointer, it's adjusting the knives to be flush with the outfeed table.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. I first set my infeed table to zero, then adjust the outfeed table so they are dead nuts flat. Then drop the infeed table away to access the cutter head, and set the knives flush with the outfeed table. I use a steel straight edge for the whole operation.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Agreed*



BZawat said:


> Agreed. I first set my infeed table to zero, then adjust the outfeed table so they are dead nuts flat. Then drop the infeed table away to access the cutter head, and set the knives flush with the outfeed table. I use a steel straight edge for the whole operation.


What would you do with a non-adjustable outfeed table like I referred to? Flush is ideal,...002 is very close...goodnnuff for me. How about you? :blink: Would your straight edge still work or would you need to get the micrometer gauge...just askin' 

Oneway Multi Gauge: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


----------



## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Yeah. I only zero the outfeed table beforehand as insurance against it having moved from zero since last fine tuning. With a fixed outfeed table it actually makes the job a bit easier, fewer variables to account for.


----------



## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

I use a Magna-Set when I install my jointer blades. I have had mine for a number of years and does the job well. This jig uses magnets to hold up the blade while you tighten the gibs. It only takes 10 or 15 minutes to set blades. The nice thing about it is it require no swearing at all.


----------



## Purrmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

See? What did I tell you? The people on this forum are a Godsend and they know *a lot*.


----------



## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

When I first saw this topic I thought this is what I need for wide boards, now that I see that it’s turned into a jointer alignment topic, I’m disappointed. 
I have a 6” jointer and I love it for pieces up to 8”, but I just haven’t mastered it for 12” boards, because I still have to run it through the planer. I guess I just need more practice.


----------



## Midlandbob (Sep 5, 2011)

For what it's worth, I have a 10-1/4 inch Austrian jointer in use for over 20 years. It uses a small aluminum block like Wood and things uses. The block moves about 1/4 inch with the right set. It's checked on both sides. This probably does mean the out feed is a few thousands below the top blade arc. It des a good job. Wood does compress a bit before it gets cut. The small planer marks show the top of the arc. When you sand or hand plane away the planer marks you are planing away these small valleys due to cut and compression. They telegraph thru on finishing due to the wood compression if they are not removed.
A planer sled to flatten boards in a thickness planer is fraught with limitations.if it was rigid and the board clamped rigidly it would work. Lots of ifs. Difficult with spirals etc.
Bob


----------



## jimmyjames (Nov 23, 2012)

Wow, I would just use a test indicator and a mag base and get the knives within .0002", guessing off of friction on a block could be .002-.005 off, and when you make 5 passes on a board it's now off .010-.025.... You can buy cheap test indicators and mag bases for them on eBay. But then again I'm a machinist and that's how I would do it, but I regularly work with parts with a tolerance of +/-.0001" and being off .005" is absolutely unheard of.....


----------



## jimmyjames (Nov 23, 2012)

BZawat said:


> Agreed. I first set my infeed table to zero, then adjust the outfeed table so they are dead nuts flat. Then drop the infeed table away to access the cutter head, and set the knives flush with the outfeed table. I use a steel straight edge for the whole operation.


Using a steal straight edge would be way off as well, unless it has a ground edge and was checked for burrs or dings with a hone, one teeny tiny ding can cause a high spot in the steel rule and throw you way off.. Even the stamped graduation lines in the blade cause high spots. Only straight piece of steel I would trust would be either a precision machinist square or a part I just ground flat on a surface grinder, but even then going off of friction isn't even close.


----------



## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

Sorry for going off-topic, but.......these above 2 posts have me wondering. What is a reasonable tolerance for woodworking? I say one ten-thousandth is going WAY too far, and basically unattainable with the machines we're talking about. Generally, if I can get within .005", I'm plenty satisfied. I think we have to keep in mind that wood is a natural material, and prone to movement, in even just a few hours. It has flaws, internal stresses, ect.


----------



## jimmyjames (Nov 23, 2012)

On other things wood related. 005" is plenty good enough but when its a jointer its not close enough, if your blades were off. 005" every time you take a pass your board gets further and further from straight, most professional woodworkers are shooting for.perfection, and taking 4 or 5 passes on the jointer with it being off that far makes your board way too far off


----------



## jacko9 (Dec 29, 2012)

If your going to continue building furniture, get a jointer 8" minimum it will save you a lot of headaches over the years. If you can get carbide knives or a segmented cutter head.


----------

