# Satin Arm-r-Seal recently way too shiny



## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

I posted this in a thread in the finishing forum...Posting here where there is more activity. I am having problems with the last 2 cans of satin Arm-r-Seal I used. Way too shiny....more like semi-gloss or gloss. I used the same finish schedule, and got different results than I did with other cans of satin. It seems to be a factory issue to me. Anyone else experience this problem? Here are samples...one on the right is the one that is too shiny(first pic without flash, second one with flash):


----------



## GeneT (Feb 24, 2014)

IMHO, either there was a mix-up at the factory or you didn't stir the can enough to get the dulling agent mixed in with the finish. You can rub it out with steel wool and paste wax as a lubricant to get the sheen to satin. FYI, the dulling agent in non-gloss finish causes the finish to be "hazy" to some degree. It is recommended to use gloss for the underlying coats and then finish with the satin to get a clearer finish.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you get a can of any satin finish that has sat on a store shelf a long time it takes a lot of stirring to make it right. Sometimes I have a stubborn finish I stir several times a day and never gets to the point I feel comfortable using. I wait until the next day and start stirring again. I used some satin lacquer yesterday I was pressed for time to use and after a lot of stirring I could see some flattening agent in it so I strained the undissolved flattening agent out of it. I came out slightly glossier but got the job done. 

If the problem is not getting the finished stirred then you just got a bad batch. They are suppose to measure the amount of flattening agent to add to the finish.


----------



## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

GeneT said:


> IMHO, either there was a mix-up at the factory or you didn't stir the can enough to get the dulling agent mixed in with the finish. You can rub it out with steel wool paste wax as a lubicant.


I thought I was consistent in how I stirred....but, it is possible I did not stir good enough. I am using the same can on some other panels, so I will see how they turn out when I am finished. When I stir the Arm-r-seal, I never notice and thick residue from the bottom like with Minwax. I usually just stir until the color is consistent.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You might empty the can and see if there is anything in the bottom of the can.


----------



## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

The store where I purchased the varnish got back with me with a response from General Finishes. The formulation was changed about 6 months ago. Apparently, GF does sheen tests and had determined it was too dull and changed the formulation. 

Stirring could also be an issue, I will know for sure after I finish the last coat on the panels I am working on now.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cps said:


> The store where I purchased the varnish got back with me with a response from General Finishes. The formulation was changed about 6 months ago. Apparently, GF does sheen tests and had determined it was too dull and changed the formulation.
> 
> Stirring could also be an issue, I will know for sure after I finish the last coat on the panels I am working on now.


OK, if you are trying to match something you have already done or just like the old finish better you can go to a real paint store such as Sherwin Williams and buy flattening compound to add to the finish. You would have to do quite a bit of mixing and testing to come up with the formula of just how much flattening compound to add. Another option would be to buy another can of the satin varnish and without stirring it pour off the gloss varnish off the top. The flatten agent should be a thick goo in the bottom of the can.


----------



## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Be aware that all finish manufacturers are continually re-formulating their products to meet government VOC requirements.

I wouldn't be surprised that General Finishes have changed and continue to evolve. That said, the few times I have called them, they have been honest and helpful resolving problems.


----------



## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> OK, if you are trying to match something you have already done or just like the old finish better you can go to a real paint store such as Sherwin Williams and buy flattening compound to add to the finish. You would have to do quite a bit of mixing and testing to come up with the formula of just how much flattening compound to add. Another option would be to buy another can of the satin varnish and without stirring it pour off the gloss varnish off the top. The flatten agent should be a thick goo in the bottom of the can.


Thanks for the advice....Not sure what I will do yet. I tried to locate an older can from another store in town, but they only had new cans.


----------



## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

I might try to rub out the finish with 0000 steel wool after it cures. Anyone have good luck with this approach?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cps said:


> I might try to rub out the finish with 0000 steel wool after it cures. Anyone have good luck with this approach?


Nobody that I know of is truly happy with making satin by rubbing it. It doesn't come out uniform like it would just applied. The sheen ends up being a little streaked and blotchy.


----------



## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

What is the name of the Sherwin Williams additive to dull the finish? I could not find it via a Google search.


----------



## lui_b (Sep 6, 2018)

I am experiencing the same result with Arm-r-seal satin. I have applied Watco danish oil on walnut then sealed it with arm-r-seal satin after a few days of drying. I am on the third coat on arm-r-seal and it way too shiny. I am not sure cutting with mineral spirits would have reduced the gloss.


----------



## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

Spray it with lacquer after it has cured. I am talking with a rattle can. It comes gloss, semi-gloss, and satin.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cps said:


> I posted this in a thread in the finishing forum...Posting here where there is more activity. I am having problems with the last 2 cans of satin Arm-r-Seal I used. Way too shiny....more like semi-gloss or gloss. I used the same finish schedule, and got different results than I did with other cans of satin. It seems to be a factory issue to me. Anyone else experience this problem? Here are samples...one on the right is the one that is too shiny(first pic without flash, second one with flash):


The difference between gloss, semi-gloss, satin and flat in any finish is the amount of flattening compound. It may be when they made it their equipment wasn't calibrated right and didn't receive enough. Sometimes a can will sit on the store shelf for so long the flattening agent almost hardens on the bottom of the can. I've had to thoroughly stir a finish and let it sit overnight and stir it again the next day to get the flattening agent to suspend correctly. If you can take a screwdriver and scrape anything off the bottom of the can the finish isn't stirred enough. 

It's unlikely the finish was defective. Every time they make a batch of finish they are suppose to apply some and check the sheen before dispensing it in cans.


----------



## Mycrossover (May 18, 2018)

Steve Neul said:


> The difference between gloss, semi-gloss, satin and flat in any finish is the amount of flattening compound. It may be when they made it their equipment wasn't calibrated right and didn't receive enough. Sometimes a can will sit on the store shelf for so long the flattening agent almost hardens on the bottom of the can. I've had to thoroughly stir a finish and let it sit overnight and stir it again the next day to get the flattening agent to suspend correctly. If you can take a screwdriver and scrape anything off the bottom of the can the finish isn't stirred enough.
> 
> It's unlikely the finish was defective. Every time they make a batch of finish they are suppose to apply some and check the sheen before dispensing it in cans.


The more coats the more the flattening agent dulls the gloss and obscures the wood grain. As a correction to too much gloss, lay on another coat or two until you get what you want.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Dumb idea: 
Would it help to invert the can a few days before using it? Would it redistribute the flattening agent to make the final stirring more effective? 

It is very bad to shake a can of finish. It introduces many tiny bubbles that ruin the results.


----------



## Saw Dust Rules (Jul 21, 2018)

I have to agree. I recently used the semi gloss on a piece of spalted maple and it was very glossy. Knocked it down and recoated with satin which was a little better but not much. Might have to go back to Minwax satin as I do not like glossy looking wood. Not very natural.


----------

