# Ripping wood with a radial arm saw



## jarheadmike (Feb 9, 2014)

I have only been working with wood for the past 6 years and have slow put together all the major tools needed. The only issue i have right now is getting a good square cut on planned/joined lumber. After i have prepared the work piece with my planner and joiner, ripping the board down to size has become a problem. I have a cheap portable table saw with a crapping fence. The cuts turn out horrible even after I take a lot of time and care adjusting the fence. I have adjusted the blade alignment, the blades not warped, and the motor bearings are nice and tight. Finances are not good enough to upgrade the table saw until my tax return comes are maybe even longer.
Would ripping boards with my radial arm saw get better results and what type of tune ups should be done to it? The saw was a hand me down from my wife's grandfather and barely used. Normally i would utilize the hobby shop on base to mill everything out, but with government cut backs all Marine Corps Base hobby shops have been permanently shut down.

*Please Help, my hobby is my sanity!*

Table Saw
Delta Shopmaster TS220LS

Radial Arm Saw
RYOBI RA-200


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*this is a complex topic/task*

Ripping on the RAS is generally frowned on by most members here BECAUSE they have a decent table saw, myself included. So the consensus is don't.

If you must and have no other means, then there are very specific rules which you will find in a good owner's manual which you can download online or get from Ebay... "Craftsman 10" Radial Arm Saw Manual"

I could give you all kinds of advice as to how to do it but I won't, it's too much for this thread. I would go on You Tube and search for the topic, I would get a good book on the RAS, and tune it up first, get a blade with 40 teeth or fewer and make certain all guards and safety equipment is on the saw. A good book is "Radial Arm Saw Techniques" by Roger W Cliffe.

Other books:
Amazon.com: radial arm saw books


I am probably among the few here who have done it safely and would feel comfortable doing it, but I take certain precautions and know and understand the physics involved. I don't recommend it for the novice. :no:

FYI:


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

First, and most importantly,thanks for your service....and curses to the fed's for closing the hobby shops (I have so much more to say about that but I'll pass). Anyway, back to ripping on an RAS. First and foremost, I discourage you from trying that. It can be done, and successfully. But you need a really good saw that well tuned and the right blade. A table saw rip blade will simply launch lumber. With an RAS having the blade perfectly parallel to the fence is tough enough on it's own. Then the arm must be rigid enough to not flex sideways (which screws up that alignment I just mentioned). All this is from a huge RAS fan, but as much as I like them I don't rip on one, though I have in the past. Unfortunately, I don't have a suggestion for a solution unless you happen to know someone who might rip the boards for you. There may be a forum member close enough to help.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

We have an introduction section where you can say a few words about yourself. If you fill out your profile in your "User Control Panel", you can list any hobbies, experience or other facts. You can also list your general geographical location which would be a help in answering some questions.

The manuals for radial arm saws describe the method, and many on forums say they do it. That doesn't mean that it's smart to rip with a RAS. I've ripped with several types of radial arm saws, and personally I would not suggest it. You'll likely get responses with some even showing pictures of how they did it. IMO, it's a risky procedure. 

I would suggest working with your table saw a bit more to be more accurate. Configure an outfeed support if necessary. Most tablesaws can be brought to an acceptable setup. If not, make yourself a jig to use with a handheld circular saw. A very simple one would be like this.





















.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

jarheadmike said:


> I have only been working with wood for the past 6 years and have slow put together all the major tools needed. The only issue i have right now is getting a good square cut on planned/joined lumber. After i have prepared the work piece with my planner and joiner, ripping the board down to size has become a problem. I have a cheap portable table saw with a crapping fence. The cuts turn out horrible even after I take a lot of time and care adjusting the fence. I have adjusted the blade alignment, the blades not warped, and the motor bearings are nice and tight. Finances are not good enough to upgrade the table saw until my tax return comes are maybe even longer.
> Would ripping boards with my radial arm saw get better results and what type of tune ups should be done to it? The saw was a hand me down from my wife's grandfather and barely used. Normally i would utilize the hobby shop on base to mill everything out, but with government cut backs all Marine Corps Base hobby shops have been permanently shut down.
> 
> *Please Help, my hobby is my sanity!*
> ...


What exactly is the problem ? 
What goes wrong with the saw and how does that affect the timber ?

Some photos here would help. 
For one , rip a piece half way along , turn the saw off , and a take a pic .


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I would rip with even the cheapest table saw before I used a radial arm saw.

It sounds to me like you may have a blade problem instead of a saw problem. Getting the fence the correct distance from the front of the saw blade should not be that difficult. Make sure the fence is essentially parallel to the blade. Again that should not be particularly difficult. If the distance between the blade and the fence is just a hair wider at the back that is OK. You do not want the fence to be closer to the blade at the back. In a worst case scenario you could even clamp a smooth, straight board in place of the fence and that would work.

As long as the fence does not move during the cut and you have a good blade all should be well. Just take it slow and easy and use push sticks.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*One more book*

This one is very often recommended as "the best"
http://www.mrsawdust.com/


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## walnutavenue (Nov 9, 2011)

Is your table saw blade sharp? A dull blade can cause a lot of problems aside from the obvious; a slow cut that tends to burn. I've found that when my rip blades get dull they vibrate and cause a terrible cut. I fought with tuning the table saw it a while before realizing that a sharp blade made all the problems go away.


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## MeasureTwice (Jan 12, 2012)

I've ripped a bunch of boards with a RAS.....That was before I was educated by this website an learned that I was doing it all wrong :smile: 

Fortunately I never had a mishap, but I will say that I take extreme caution whenever using any power tool!

I did get rid of the RAS and got a pretty good table saw.....sometimes I wish I had it back!

So you can get it done but listen to the ones that are more experienced on here and be careful!


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

I found this 



> *This review is from: Delta TS220LS Shopmaster 10-Inch Deluxe Bench Saw with Legs (Tools & Home Improvement)*
> 
> If you are on a tight budget and need a bench-top table saw this saw is good choice. At half the price of the DeWalt and Bosch bench tops and $150 less than the Makita benchtop the Delta is a great value for what it can do. Its a basic saw that performs adequately. The fit and finish is only average.
> 
> ...


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

jarheadmike said:


> I have only been working with wood for the past 6 years and have slow put together all the major tools needed. The only issue i have right now is getting a good square cut on planned/joined lumber. After i have prepared the work piece with my planner and joiner, ripping the board down to size has become a problem. I have a cheap portable table saw with a crapping fence. The cuts turn out horrible even after I take a lot of time and care adjusting the fence. I have adjusted the blade alignment, the blades not warped, and the motor bearings are nice and tight. Finances are not good enough to upgrade the table saw until my tax return comes are maybe even longer. Would ripping boards with my radial arm saw get better results and what type of tune ups should be done to it? The saw was a hand me down from my wife's grandfather and barely used. Normally i would utilize the hobby shop on base to mill everything out, but with government cut backs all Marine Corps Base hobby shops have been permanently shut down. Please Help, my hobby is my sanity! Table Saw Delta Shopmaster TS220LS Radial Arm Saw RYOBI RA-200


There is a recall on your RAS. I recommend that you quit using it. The recall notice says that cracking in the plastic motor housing which results in a sudden catastrophic failure in which the blade assembly becomes detached resulting in lacerations. 

In real world terms: The blade comes loose and comes back at the operator, still spinning at 3500-rpm, and cuts the bejesus out of them. 

Please go to the Ryobi site, for details. They may still be giving cash payments. I found it by googling Ryobi and your model number.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> There is a recall on your RAS. I recommend that you quit using it. The recall notice says that cracking in the plastic motor housing which results in a sudden catastrophic failure in which the blade assembly becomes detached resulting in lacerations.
> 
> In real world terms: The blade comes loose and comes back at the operator, still spinning at 3500-rpm, and cuts the bejesus out of them.
> 
> Please go to the Ryobi site, for details. They may still be giving cash payments. I found it by googling Ryobi and your model number.


Besides using a potentially defective tool, it's hard to decide what's worse......the video's operator using gloves or wearing a long sleeve shirt.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*here's the recall notice!*

Don't use that saw!
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2006/Ryobi-Radial-Arm-Saws-Recalled-for-Blade-Detachment-Hazard/


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

As an aside, you might want to check on Amazon for an aftermarket fence like this one: Rousseau 2600 PortaMax Jr. Table Saw Table Top and Fence System. 

And for others: Ripping on the RAS Is perfectly safe but you need to do it right. Which is not how most manuals say to do it. 

Use an anti-kickback saw blade with a negative hook angle. 

Bury the blade into the table, leaving just enough room under the motor to clear the workpiece. 

Feed the workpiece in so that the cutting lead of the blade pushes the wood down onto the table. 

The good side should be facing up. There is no possibility of kick back. 

Remember the RAS is not a tablesaw. They work differently, and the safety precautions are different. Technics and blades that are correct on one are not correct on the other.


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## jarheadmike (Feb 9, 2014)

Thank you to all who replied. The post talking about my table saw with issues years later really hits home. I have had the delta a lot longer then any other shop tool. I am using a homemade feeder table and understand its importance from working in a few hobby shops over the years. 

I have rebuilt the fence with 3/4" plywood making it taller for feather boards and stop blocks. I put several layers of polyurethane on it. I also spent a lot of time and care ensuring it was built square to the fence. I am still unable to remove a small amount of rock in it. I did have a warped blade but have already replaced it. Should I just scrap the fence, use a straight edge and if it still there assume it's bad bearings? 

By trade I am a metrology (calibration) tech and have a good working knowledge of physical & dimensional measurements. Some times I think that's most of my problem, trying to make things perfect. 

As far as the arm saw, I saw the recall and inspected the housing for damage and have continued to do so for the few times I used it. My combined mutter saw handles most of that kind of work. The recall what's you to turn in the motor on your dime and they will send you like 50-70 bucks.

I have made plenty of shadow boxes and made a cabinet for my wife. Primitive, which my wife loves, is easy to make but it drives the perfectionist in me crazy. Shaker style furniture is my goal, but until I resolve this issue I'm just making firewood. 

I attached a picture of the table saw w/fence and a piece of cherry with the saw marks.

Thanks again and I appreciate any words of wisdom. No go on arm saw, got it!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I agree ...mostly*



jigs-n-fixtures said:


> And for others: Ripping on the RAS Is perfectly safe but you need to do it right. Which is not how most manuals say to do it.
> YUP.
> 
> 
> ...



*Since this thread as been essentially answered ..."don't use that saw"*... this discussion will be beneficial for others with questions about "ripping" on a RAS. If this is an issue we can start a new thread. 

A long fence will be best for ripping so that any bow in the board can be located "in" towards the fence. I used a 24' long fence when I straight lined some cypress here: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I won't post anything that will prompt you to rip with the RAS, or make suggestions that sounds like it makes the procedure safer. In looking at your table saw fence, you might have better luck with laminating the sides with a Formica type laminate, or make fence faces out of Melamine. A polyurethane coating IMO isn't the best surface to allow a smooth movent of material.



















.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

jarheadmike said:


> I attached a picture of the table saw w/fence and a piece of cherry with the saw marks.


 Did the saw rip that piece of cherry accurately , are the dimensions to the millimetre , is it square ? 

The saw marks alone are not generally a saw issue , blade or fence .
Some timbers burn a tad when the feeder pauses in his work 
Planing or sanding the timber usually fixes that .
Shouting loudly at the feeder usually doesn't :laughing:


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## jarheadmike (Feb 9, 2014)

Manuka Jock said:


> Did the saw rip that piece of cherry accurately , are the dimensions to the millimetre , is it square ?
> 
> The saw marks alone are not generally a saw issue , blade or fence .
> Some timbers burn a tad when the feeder pauses in his work
> ...


the cuts are pretty close to square, it's the swirling saw blade marks in the wood not the burn.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

jarheadmike said:


> the cuts are pretty close to square, it's the swirling saw blade marks in the wood not the burn.


In my experience , same reason for both , a pause and a bit of rock and roll. 
It happens.

Ripping timber is breaking down work , not finishing .
Allow yourself a mil or two in the rip for further machining.

Out of curiosity , how much over timber height do you raise the blade ?

And where is your riving knife in all this ?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

jarheadmike said:


> As far as the arm saw, I saw the recall and inspected the housing for damage and have continued to do so for the few times I used it. My combined mutter saw handles most of that kind of work. The recall what's you to turn in the motor on your dime and they will send you like 50-70 bucks.
> 
> I have made plenty of shadow boxes and made a cabinet for my wife. Primitive, which my wife loves, is easy to make but it drives the perfectionist in me crazy. Shaker style furniture is my goal, but until I resolve this issue I'm just making firewood.
> 
> ...


Just a note. If a manufacturer recalls a saw for the reasons stated and you continue to use that saw. You deserve what you get. That might seem harsh but you evidently haven't met the business end of a spinning saw blade or truly understand how much damage can be done in a split second. 

DON'T USE THAT SAW!!!


Not only that but everyone pretty much says and I agree, ripping with a good RAS is not a good idea. Why do it with one recalled for catastrophic failure with the blade coming loose? 

Be smart.


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## jarheadmike (Feb 9, 2014)

I normally raise the blade maybe an 1/8" at the most above thickness


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Years back I had to use a RAS to rip just one board, the board pinched and the saw threw the 8 foot 1X8 through the wall. If you have a kick back on a RAS it isn't going to be a small one, all it takes is one time and you won't want to try it again, just hopefully you still have all your fingers.

Take my word for it, a saw blade don't cut skin, it mangles skin and bone.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

jarheadmike said:


> I normally raise the blade maybe an 1/8" at the most above thickness


I'm guessing your referring to the table saw. I usually due that same thing. However I have a 3hp saw. The smaller saws can struggle with the blade that low. The waste is not removed fully because the gullet is staying full. A ripping blade has less teeth (24) usually and larger gullets to remove the waste wood. A thin kerf blade will also help with under powered over over worked saws. 

Get a Diablo thin kerf 24 tooth ripping blade for your table saw raise it a little higher and make sure the saw top is clean and smooth. Maybe wax the top, make sure the fence is aligned properly and that the material does not bind on the fence.


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## jarheadmike (Feb 9, 2014)

Thank you all again, I try stopping by the hardware store during the week. I'll try to find that diablo or similar style blade this week. I commute 2 hours wiith a 12 hour work day 5 days a week so it may be awhile until I'm able to try the new blade out. Semper Fi!


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

jarheadmike said:


> Thank you all again, I try stopping by the hardware store during the week. I'll try to find that diablo or similar style blade this week. I commute 2 hours wiith a 12 hour work day 5 days a week so it may be awhile until I'm able to try the new blade out. Semper Fi!


 Remember that the ripping blade has to be compatible with the riving knife


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

rrbrown said:


> Get a Diablo thin kerf 24 tooth ripping blade for your table saw raise it a little higher and make sure the saw top is clean and smooth.


This will make an enormous difference in your ripping; run, don't walk, down to HD and get one.
The only other suggestion I'd make is to try featherboards on the table. It's possible you are wandering when running the board through so this will help in that area.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Cherry is a "burner" ....*

For some reason Cherry tends to burn when ripped. There have been a few threads here and there are quite a few on the web:
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=cherry+burns+when+sawing&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/rough-cut-burning-cherry-24611/

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/table-saw-blade-burns-39024/

The issues are:
Dull or incorrect blade with too many teeth when ripping. Like a 60 tooth.
or the fence is not parallel to the blade, toed in at the rear.


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## jarheadmike (Feb 9, 2014)

Got the blade, just need some spare time to install and put the riving blade back on it.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Good one . 
Glad to hear that yours has a riving knife . 
Those flimsy splitters with the guard wingnutted to the top are more trouble than they are worth


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