# Need Help Pricing a Bookshelf



## londonhb185 (Sep 11, 2020)

Please let me know if I have posted this in the wrong forum.

I got my first client (outside of my friends and family) to build a bookshelf with a couple of doors on the bottom. the entire project is 6ft x 6ft and 16in depth. Materials will be mix of maple and maple veneer ply. And stained to color match an existing desk. Pretty simple - design attached. I just have no idea how to price something like this. I build for fun, but am starting to get recommended to build for friends of friends. Any idea how I would price this? Materials are between $ 500-600. 

Thanks in advance

Frank


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

What the heck are they reading to make the materials worth that much? 
Well..start with material cost and go from there, but the thing with fine furniture it's tough to sell. 
I get a lot of customers who can probably afford high quality materials, but for whatever reason they insist on cheap so if they insist on cheap materials they're not getting my best work. I'm not wasting my time to build the best widget with garbage materials. You want the best widget you pay for the best materials. 
Your name goes on it, why bother with your best efforts with cheap materials? 
Since you started with premium materials charge premium prices and if they can't afford it keep it for yourself..


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

It would be cheaper to have a cabinet shop build it. 

Book shelves are built by the running foot. 

If your materials are high the footage price is too high...

I assume you are finishing it for free?


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

We don't know where Frank is. Could he be in London, UK? Are maple and maple plywood prices high there?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

allpurpose said:


> What the heck are they reading to make the materials worth that much?
> Well..start with material cost and go from there, but the thing with fine furniture it's tough to sell.
> I get a lot of customers who can probably afford high quality materials, but for whatever reason they insist on cheap so if they insist on cheap materials they're not getting my best work. I'm not wasting my time to build the best widget with garbage materials. You want the best widget you pay for the best materials.
> Your name goes on it, why bother with your best efforts with cheap materials?
> Since you started with premium materials charge premium prices and if they can't afford it keep it for yourself..



Yes, materials cost seems excessive.


George


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## londonhb185 (Sep 11, 2020)

I live in Houston TX. $560 is what I calculated from a hardwood store. I would be finishing it as well. I am thinking of charging $2100. The client knows they are paying more for something hand-built. Is $2100 too high?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Cabinets like this are usually sold by the foot including materials.

Looks to me like you only have 4 sheets of plywood 3/4 in the cabinet plus a 1/4 back=2 sheets. Some hardwood.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Your going to try and make $350 a running foot. For that you better make something very impressive...

How long will take you?

That's what commercial cabinets go for a running ft. A upper, base and top....


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

londonhb185 said:


> I live in Houston TX. $560 is what I calculated from a hardwood store. I would be finishing it as well. I am thinking of charging $2100. The client knows they are paying more for something hand-built. Is $2100 too
> 
> 
> 
> high?



$2,100 To me would be at least double or more what I would expect. 



You need to go into some furniture/office supply stores and see prices on similar sized items. "Hand built" does not add that much to the price unless it is something really extraordinary.


George


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Here I KC a standard book case. Removable shelves, 12" deep went for $125 a running foot. Your at 16" . So maybe $175 a running foot.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Rebelwork said:


> Here I KC a standard book case. Removable shelves, 12" deep went for $125 a running foot. Your at 16" . So maybe $175 a running foot.



What is a running foot on a book case? Side, top bottom, both or what?


George


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

His bookcase is 6' long.


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## GCTony (Apr 5, 2018)

Sorry but I respectfully disagree with some of these cookie cutter pricing methods. It's like saying I build custom houses for $100 per foot, I paint house interiors for $2.00 per foot. For the most part, people in the trades aren't widget producers, factors impact costs. 

Material cost:
Labor cost: How long will it take and how much is your time worth per hour? 
Overhead: Electric, shop rent, insurance, taxes, misc. supplies, that $500 spray gun wasn't free, therefore has an hourly rate.

I usually "lose money" on one of a kind consignment projects because I usually under estimate how long finishing takes and don't account for fixing my mistakes, things like a run, sand thru, needs one more coat. 

I have legal business expenses...that being said; I would charge starting around $2000.00.

Materials: $500.00
Labor to fabricate: 8 hrs X $65 hr = $520.00 (includes payroll takes)
Overhead: 1 [email protected] $150.00 per day = $150.00

Material finishes: $100.00
Finishing labor: 8 hrs X $65 per hour = $520.00 
Finishing Overhead 1/2 day $75.00. (shop is producing other things between steps/coats.) 

Also need to add in things such as time spent designing, meeting with the client, delivery, billing/collecting.

Does "the market" allow for a $2,000.00 book shelf?


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## Frost (Sep 24, 2018)

GCTony said:


> Sorry but I respectfully disagree with some of these cookie cutter pricing methods. It's like saying I build custom houses for $100 per foot, I paint house interiors for $2.00 per foot. For the most part, people in the trades aren't widget producers, factors impact costs.
> 
> Material cost:
> Labor cost: How long will it take and how much is your time worth per hour?
> ...


I concur but would also add in time to go get materials and delivery and installation. At 16 inches deep it needs to be fastened to the wall or at least the floor or liability is a concern. Why compete with Ikea, you can't win.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Except for these two posts today, it has been almost a month since the last post on this thread.


I wonder what happened????




George


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

When I was getting started I used a primitive method for pricing, but it worked. First I made a materials list and priced it out. Second I broke down each phase of the build and estimated manpower hours for each phase. Be realistic, finishing can take as long as building sometimes. I then assigned a labor rate of what I felt my hourly labor was worth. This should give you a base price. Finally, I added a minimum of 10% for travelling, pricing up materials, research, design, and unforeseen expenses, which there will be. Nothing sucks more than doing a job on a tight budget and having your 3-1/2 hp router fall off the work bench and shatter. It will happen. Good luck.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Labor prices vary a lot around the country so a price for a cabinet like that would vary. I'm in the Dallas area and I have particularly low overhead since I own my own building. I charge $300.00 per foot for a cabinet like that unless it was some expensive wood like walnut which would be more.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

GCTony said:


> Sorry but I respectfully disagree with some of these cookie cutter pricing methods. It's like saying I build custom houses for $100 per foot, I paint house interiors for $2.00 per foot. For the most part, people in the trades aren't widget producers, factors impact costs.
> 
> Material cost:
> Labor cost: How long will it take and how much is your time worth per hour?
> ...


That's why they should go to a cabinet shop...no crazy hobby prices...


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## londonhb185 (Sep 11, 2020)

Here is the result. I completely agree with both sides of the pricing. I would never pay 2100 for this bookcase. But this was a ton of work. I router milled all moulding outside of the crown. And with a pre-stain, then 2 coats of stain, then two coats of poly. Plus delivery. Again I would never pay this much, but it was a ton of work. Also, I really hate staining wood. And if I had to do it again I will never use a gell stain again. Not worth the effort. All this to say that the client wanted a custom solid bookcase built specific for their room and were happy.


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## Nick2727 (Jun 14, 2020)

Lovely looking bookshelf. Customers happy is all that matters.

Plus you seemed like you learned a thing or too about pricing out jobs a long the way! bonus!


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

londonhb185 said:


> Here is the result. I completely agree with both sides of the pricing. I would never pay 2100 for this bookcase. But this was a ton of work. I router milled all moulding outside of the crown. And with a pre-stain, then 2 coats of stain, then two coats of poly. Plus delivery. Again I would never pay this much, but it was a ton of work. Also, I really hate staining wood. And if I had to do it again I will never use a gell stain again. Not worth the effort. All this to say that the client wanted a custom solid bookcase built specific for their room and were happy.


$2100 seems like it is in the ballpark for a beautiful, new, handmade, large bookcase of solid hardwood. That's based on my experience of shopping with my spouse for old-style large entertainment centers many years ago. They are basically two narrow bookcases with a cabinet between them (as a TV stand) and a bridge over the top. Not that different from what you built. 

Look on Wayfair, for example. Search for "large entertainment center" and see the prices for cheap particle board products with vinyl woodgrain that weigh a ton and last a few months before bad things start to happen. I see old ones at Habitat for Humanity, priced in the many hundreds of dollars range. Used. Beat-up. Cheap materials. Carp.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Disagree on the price...


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

londonhb185 said:


> Here is the result. I completely agree with both sides of the pricing. I would never pay 2100 for this bookcase. But this was a ton of work. I router milled all moulding outside of the crown. And with a pre-stain, then 2 coats of stain, then two coats of poly. Plus delivery. Again I would never pay this much, but it was a ton of work. Also, I really hate staining wood. And if I had to do it again I will never use a gell stain again. Not worth the effort. All this to say that the client wanted a custom solid bookcase built specific for their room and were happy.


To me what you are now picturing is not a "bookcase." A bookcase is a much simpler item with open shelves. Your price may be more reasonable for that.

George


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I build these for builders. Book case bring $125 a running foot and entertainment centers with pocket doors bring $250.

I'm not gonna sugar coat it


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## Nick2727 (Jun 14, 2020)

Too be fair, he found someone to pay 2100, so it's worth it to them. Doesn't much matter what it is worth to you or I. When your speaking about building for builders, those guys are most definetly shopping around for the cheapest price. 

Some people spend $100,000 on a watch or necklace. Somethings 'worth' is really only just what someone else would pay for it? 

Some people have FAAAAAR more money than time, it wouldn't even be worth some people's time to call for quotes I'm sure. First # called, done. Hand over the cash and forget about it. I imagine it's hard to maintain a business model where you just steadily gouge rich people.

Than again Gucci and Louis Vouitton have people spending $800 on t shirts.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Most people accept a price unknowing it's true value. I've over the years repaired or replaced woodworkers doings because someone said "sure I can do it"..

Would I hire a hobby woodworker. Not unless I see a lot of prior work....


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

I think everyone here is correct to a degree. When I had my business I would not work for builders. I found they wanted me to make it fast, they wanted it cheap, and they wanted to make all the money on it. At least that is how it was in my area. I liked to work for interior designers, homeowners, and good home renovation guys. I did a good number of book cases and built ins. My pricing was always difficult for me. Materials could be double on a smaller project then a larger. What is the species of the wood? If there is plywood is it rotary cut, flatsawn, bookmatched? Are the doors overlay or inset, flush panel or raised panel? Regular face frame or beaded? How much detail work, how much hardware? Is it getting just a clear or will there be toning and complicated finishing schedules? As you can see, pricing can vary widely. Add to that the craftsman's reputation and the market in which you work. I moved from the northeast to the southeast. If I priced my work for what I got in the NY Metro area I would never get a job.


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