# Plough / plow plane



## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Well gentlemen, 
This is going to be a long / slow post, short attention spans be warned! lol this is going to be a work in progress for me. as well as a spot to list my notes and thoughts on the project as well as get input from all of you if your willing! so please feel free to comment. especially all you plane makers out there!! 

I am in the beginning stages of designing a plough / plow plane I want to build. Currently I am looking for the irons first and formost, Since I will be building the plane I need to build it around the irons. I would hate to build the body first and not have a good fit to the width of the irons. I have been scavenging all over the web and currently have a few bids on E-bay. Who knows, I may get lucky and get a decent set for a decent price. I refuse to pay an arm and a leg....

As far as design goes, I am thinking a Sandusky / Mathieson hybrid bridal more or less with a full tote, I am also thinking of adding a knob to the fence, Whenever I have used one, I felt as if My left hand didnt have a spot, I know you use it to guide the fence to keep it square, but It felt odd and uncomfortable, And I have yet to see one with a knob on the fence, im thinking a hotdog style. something that says grab me here kind a thing.

Derek Cohen had made this one:







here is a link to his build:http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild.html 
and I really like his design, I think I am going to use it as a basic design for mine and make a few changes, I would like to add a central turn screw to adjust the fence along the rail arms then use the bridal clamp to secure it in place. This would also mean that I will have to make mine longer to accommodate the 2 rails and turn screw. If you look at his in the picture, If I were to add a turn screw to adjust the fence it would have to be inline and centered between the fence rails. this would mean that it would also be right where the iron goes. so I would have to put more space between the rails so the center of them would be ahead of the iron placement. Similar to this one here







only i would have the rails fixed to the body and slide on the fence and not have the reverse threads on the turn screw. I would have it fixed to the body as well and have the "nut on the out side of the fence mounted with a garter so it would adjust the fence both ways.

For building the body, I had an idea of instead of boring out the channel for the iron and wedge, what about laminating the body from four pieces? sort of like the plane kits do it, have the front and rear middle sections then the full length sides. this would allow me to get a more accurate bedding angle as well as add a design element by being able to use different woods. I do know that I want the bedding angle to flow directly into the rear tote frame to add additional support to the top of the iron. as well as provide more surface to wedge against,

Other then the Irons, a friend of mine has offered to make me the turnscrew, so the only other piece I would need to buy / find would be the depth stop. of course I would have to buy some bar and flat stock for the skate as well as the knobs to lock the rails down. Since brass is so popular, what do you guys think about using copper instead? I love the look of copper with wood even more so after it starts to patina and get a little green. I would use it for the lock down knobs for the rails and depth stop. I do not think it would be good to use for the actual depth stop or wear face on the fence due to its potential to stain the work piece. But I do think it would look good for the "accessories"

thoughts / comments are all welcome!


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Cool project! What about Lee Valley's plow plane irons? Then you could easily get a replacement if something happened to one. Or will they not work with a wooden wedge?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Wooden plow planes have tapered irons, they are thicker at the blade edge then they are at the far end. this is what gives it the wedging action and gives the tip more mass to make a better cut. I had already thought about using the iron blanks from lie nielsen but was told they would not work for the same reasons.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Up late / early huh? You finally run a call? :laughing: 

Sounds like a cool project! What if the threaded rod had a fixed turn wheel, captive in the fence, and the nut was in the plane's body? 

Nice of your buddy to make that screw for ya :smile::yes:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Lol yea we had 2 actuAlly. A kitchen fire and a chest pain!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> Lol yea we had 2 actuAlly. A kitchen fire and a chest pain!


Sweet! "Chest pain" or "chest wall pain?" I get a LOT more of the latter! :smile:

After more thought, my suggestion above won't work well at all - too many areas of friction. A captive nut in the fence could work well though... 

...funny, I've been called a captive nut plenty of times!!! :laughing:


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I will be following this eagerly. Does Ron Hock have anything that will help you as far as irons go?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Sweet! "Chest pain" or "chest wall pain?" I get a LOT more of the latter! :smile:
> 
> After more thought, my suggestion above won't work well at all - too many areas of friction. A captive nut in the fence could work well though...
> 
> ...funny, I've been called a captive nut plenty of times!!! :laughing:


It was a true chest pain, Our electronic reporting system we use has a feature that syncs with our monitors that allow us to record and play back EKG rhythms, This patient had some significant ST depression on his 12 lead, and When I pulled one one from the same patient that was like 2 weeks old, there was 0 depression noted. That and the patient had all the typical symptoms. pressure tightness, S.O.B. numbness in the neck. So I treated as a STEMI. and straight to a cath lab. 


As far as the captive nut, I was thinking more on the lines of having it turn on the outside of the fence, It would be captive to the fence being held by a garter, that way it would be able to adjust the fence both to and from the plane body.

ACP:

I dont know if Ron Hock makes plow plane blades or not, It would be something to look into tho. Thanks!!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> It was a true chest pain, Our electronic reporting system we use has a feature that syncs with our monitors that allow us to record and play back EKG rhythms, This patient had some significant ST depression on his 12 lead, and When I pulled one one from the same patient that was like 2 weeks old, there was 0 depression noted. That and the patient had all the typical symptoms. pressure tightness, S.O.B. numbness in the neck. So I treated as a STEMI. and straight to a cath lab.
> 
> As far as the captive nut, I was thinking more on the lines of having it turn on the outside of the fence, It would be captive to the fence being held by a garter, that way it would be able to adjust the fence both to and from the plane body.
> 
> ...


Wow! You can recall previous 12-leads!? That's pretty wild! And I though we were high cotton being able to send em via cell link, haha

Are you linked into the area hospitals with that?... Or can you only recall strips you ran with your service?

BTW, we run Zolls, y'all?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

firemedic said:


> Wow! You can recall previous 12-leads!? That's pretty wild! And I though we were high cotton being able to send em via cell link, haha
> 
> Are you linked into the area hospitals with that?... Or can you only recall strips you ran with your service?
> 
> BTW, we run Zolls, y'all?


yeah, we have blue tooth linked to our tablets and monitors, and we can send our monitor read outs to the area hospitals, its not a real time transfer yet, currently we can only transmit our 12 leads, after we do the whole analize and it prints out. we use zoll E series. 

Our EMS chief is working on getting us a real time sync from our monitors to the hospitals. only real problem is, since we are so close to Nashville we transport alot of patients that way, especially if they are critical. either trauma or medical. and there are 6 major hospitals in Nashville alone, as well as 2 small local, and 7 small to mid - size area hospitals that are in the neighboring counties. With that many hospitals in our area the problem lays on their end getting and using the software, If I remember correctly, I think we already have the software upgrades in our monitors / tablets to do the real time link,


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

*Update!*

well folks, here is a small update, up to this point I have been playing with paper drawing different models. I decided to do with the Krenov style of plane kit with a twist, the wood is all cherry.

here is the tote; the tote has a notch / groove that the blades will "ride" in, my thinking is this will give the blades more support and reduce chatter. while keeping the middle sections a full 1 1/16" thick. and blade groove is 21/32" the tote is still in rough shape, I have not shaped or formed this yet other then the groove. the blade bedding angle is 50*








this is the middle section of the body: the wedging angle is 60*








these are the sides to the body. note how they overlap and join the tote and middle body piece. one side is already beaded, there with be beading on both pieces when done. these are 3/4" thick








this is the wedge, it has rabbets along the sides on a taper to match the taper of the blades. it will also "ride" in the notch in the tote that will align the blade.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

here is what the front will look like, 









the side height: 








Here is a full mock up with the skate piece, the skate piece was made from a carpenters square. "rule" marks have been ground off. leaving its thickness at 3/32" perfect since the narrowest blade is 1/8".








and this is what it will look like. here it is all stacked up. in a dry fit!








still have a ton more to do. But its some progress, What do ya all think?


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

Very interesting. Have you found your irons? This is gonna be cool!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Looking great! It's a beast of a plough!

Nice gauge in the background :smile: I got all warm and fuzzy when I saw it setting there in the pictures :laughing:

Any progress with the depth stop and arm designs?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

rayking49 said:


> Very interesting. Have you found your irons? This is gonna be cool!


yes, I found 'em, paid $32.00 for them including shipping. they should be here early next week....... Thank you for the compliment!



firemedic said:


> Looking great! It's a beast of a plough!
> 
> Nice gauge in the background :smile: I got all warm and fuzzy when I saw it setting there in the pictures :laughing:
> 
> Any progress with the depth stop and arm designs?


yea it turned out to be a bit larger then I expected. I knew it would have to be a bit longer to accommodate 2 rail / arms and the turn screw.

depth stop...... still kickin around a few ideas. I am leaning towards using a square turnbuckle with a piece of steel welded to the bottom. and a threaded rod and thumb screw. should be able to pull it off for around $10.00 in supplies. cheaper then buying an actual depth stop. 

rails - im thinking 1" dia with a 90* angle on the bottom to seat into the fence. most likely I will have a 3/4 shoulder seats into the plane. 

turn screw. im thinking 3/4 or 1" with the same shoulder. 

I am now debating if I should put rails and turn screw on both sides so it will work both left and right handed. this will create a challenge to make sure everything is exactly square and aligned. still playing with the nut design. I have decided that it will have to be part of the fence but free spinning. and able to be removed if it ever needs to be replaced with out destroying the fence.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

No pictures of current progress I will have to post them ina few days when I get back out to the shop. I have made the depth stop. I used a turnbuckle that had 10/24 threads one right handed, one left handed. I used a piece of steel for the skid part of the stop. once the steel piece was cut to size and shaped for clearance around the blades I used a 10/24 stainless screw about 1/2" in length to attach it to the right hand threads of the turn buckle. I then drilled out and tapped the left hand threads to accept a 1/4" x 20 standard thread. My plan is to use a piece of threaded rod to raise and lower the stop. the stop is also mortised into the plane bottom it recesses in about 1/32"

I have also mortised the lock for the stop. another piece of steel that will clamp against the turnbuckle on the inside against the wood body. I will have a knob on the outside. 

Also have the tote roughly rounded out, still have some more finish work to do on it yet, 

Sorry I dont have pics to show all this, but there will be some in a few days.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Hhhmmmm... need pictures :blink:




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:boat:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Wema826 said:


> No pictures of current progress I will have to post them ina few days when I get back out to the shop.
> 
> Sorry I dont have pics to show all this, but there will be some in a few days.





firemedic said:


> Hhhmmmm... need pictures :blink:
> 
> :boat:


HAHAHA nuff said!:blink:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> HAHAHA nuff said!:blink:


If pictures are worth a thousand words - a word is only worth 0.0001 pictures. So the way I see it you last progress post was worth about 0.0012 pictures... Just say'n!

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

Yes, I need pictures and detailed plans with a list of we're to buy all the metal parts. : )

I think I too would like to build one, but not until the summer is over. I've already got a lot on my plate.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

Lookin mighty,....oh wait, I don't know how it looks. LOL Just kidding.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

*Another Update*

Well it has been awhile since my last update, I have had a lot on my plate so to speak! And my last update I did not have any pictures to post, this time I do!!

Here is the depth stop I came up with. it is a threaded rod with a copper top bar, I used 2 Knurled nuts for the top. and the turn buckle and a steel bar for the actual stop.








I then mortised it into the plane body.








here is the skate pictures. 
















more to come in the next post.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Here are a few more.

This is the fence design i chose.









Here is another view of thefence 









This is a arm / bar lock I was playing with. I think this might change, Im not totally sold on this one. 









More info to come in the next post, But its Dinner time at the Fire hall!!!


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

Way cool. I love the work you have done and looking forward to how it is going to all come together. Thanks again for the thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

That's looking nice, Ben! I like the use of the turnbuckle - very creative! The fence looks nice too! How would the locks work, U-bolts or bolts at the sides?

What did y'all cook up? I was supposed to do a roast and grilled vegetables for the guys here - ran all day and ended up eating on the go instead.:thumbdown:


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Well. you asked for materials. here is what i got so far.

1: 12 x 9 carpenters square - Used for the skate.
2 wood of choice - cherry all out of the scrap bin
3: some copper flat bar 1/8" by 3/4" by 2 inches long
4: threaded rod 1/4 by 12 inches. used for the depth stop and depth stop lock
5: 1/4 lock nut
6: some knurled brass thumb screws for the top of the depth stop. I had to drill and tap them to 1/4"
7: some 3/16" by 3/4" flat steel. used for the actual depth stop skate, reinforcement bar for skate. and lock on depth stop. I mortised a spot behind the depth stop in the picture where the depth stop is mortised in. the lock is then drilled and tapped for 1/4" the rod goes through the middle section where it is secured with a lock nut that is thread locked.
8: screws for the skate are old door hinge screws. 

one of my personal challenges with this build is to see what I can make from what I have on hand. I am trying to not buy any new parts. This is my galoot challenge! lol but some things I have had to buy. the turn buckle that is used in part of the depth stop. the irons. a new 1/4" tap and bit. (old one broke). Then I am having some other parts made.

As far as actual sizes go. I just kind of winged it. I went with what felt right and seamed per portioned to my size.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

firemedic said:


> That's looking nice, Ben! I like the use of the turnbuckle - very creative! The fence looks nice too! How would the locks work, U-bolts or bolts at the sides?
> 
> What did y'all cook up? I was supposed to do a roast and grilled vegetables for the guys here - ran all day and ended up eating on the go instead.:thumbdown:


Ben? lol 

The arm bar locks? I am going to revamp this design. I dont like it. but it will have a bolt that goes through the bottom and the top that will have a large knob screw type clamp.

meatloaf, mashed tatters. broccoli with cheese and cheesy toasted bread.and some corn on the cob! drenched in butter!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wema826 said:


> Ben? lol
> 
> The arm bar locks? I am going to revamp this design. I dont like it. but it will have a bolt that goes through the bottom and the top that will have a large knob screw type clamp.


Gotcha. Is it done yet? :boat:



Wema826 said:


> meatloaf, mashed tatters. broccoli with cheese and cheesy toasted bread.and some corn on the cob! drenched in butter!


Mmm, sounds good. Everyone but me was on a health kick so I caved and I'm trying to eat healthy with them so we are still eating together... making the above sound even better!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Ahh man. For some reason I have your number in my phone as Ben... My bad. I confused myself, John. Sorry!


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

lol no worries, sorry for the late response, had a total BS run and then our chief stopped by the station, for round table discussion.......


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Here is the plough as complete as far as i ca. Going to ship it out to have it drilled and tapped for the adjusting rod! 





































































I hope you enjoyed the build as much as i did!


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