# Is it just me, or...



## txpaulie (Jul 21, 2010)

is it always tedious and difficult hogging out the 2 pounds of wood inside a decent sized bowl..?

I took a class this past weekend...
Turned 2.5 x 7" fairly green piece of mahogany, into shallow bowls.
No problem, had fun, learned how to use my tools, and learned that my tools are crap.:yes:

Segue into the past coupla evenings, with me standing over my lathe, trying to hollow out 4 x 7" hunk of heavy walnut.

I am still rather timid, and do not remove a ton of material with each cut, but good grief, it's a bit of work!:blink:

Anyway, rant over, pics to come.:laughing:

Thanks,
P


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## b00kemdano (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm pretty new to turning more sizable bowls, and I'd have to say yes, it takes some time and effort, especially with the bigger ones. 

I did an 11" x 6" walnut bowl the other day and it took a lot longer than the smaller things that I usually turn. I've been using a round nose scraper lately, and had to resharpen it a couple times during hollowing. 

The more experience I get the more I realize the shortfalls of the more inexpensive tools and equipment that I initially purchased.


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## slicksqueegie (Feb 9, 2011)

txpaulie said:


> is it always tedious and difficult hogging out the 2 pounds of wood inside a decent sized bowl..?
> 
> I took a class this past weekend...
> Turned 2.5 x 7" fairly green piece of mahogany, into shallow bowls.
> ...


Am I cheating for using a 3" forstner bit to hog it out? :no:


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## txpaulie (Jul 21, 2010)

> Am I cheating for using a 3" forstner bit to hog it out?


Oh man, why didn't I think of that..?
Easy to set depth, clean out the hardest part, etc. 
That's Gold!:thumbsup:

I shall cheat!

p


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

maybe its just our cheap tools or lack of talent im not sure but yea it wore me out doing one the other night


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## slicksqueegie (Feb 9, 2011)

txpaulie said:


> I shall cheat!


shhhhhh!!! It's not cheating...
lol
Be careful, you can burn a bit up in no time... But that's when you break out the harbor freight specials. (actually they aren't bad)
anyway, glad I could help...

I am brand new at this. It just seems logical to do this. I do not know if this is putting to much stress on the machine.... If anyone knows if/why I shouldn't do this please speak up....


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

b00kemdano said:


> ..... I've been using a *round nose scraper* lately, and had to resharpen it a couple times *during* *hollowing*.


Excuse my ignorance, but I'm not aware of this practice. I thought scrapers were reserved for final finish or at least highly figured grain when only a light approach will do. Educate me.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

That is why folks buy boring bars and bowl savers and now all those carbide scrappers you can buy. Carbide scrappers come in square tips to hog out wood and round ones for better finish. Some people have always used scrappers from start to finish on bowls. 

I still think a bowl gouge or gouges the way to go. I use 5/8” for rough out and ½” for final turning. For a long time only used a ½” bowl gouge from start to finish. I also have scrappers but do not always use them. 

Keep an open mind several roads lead to Rome. So do not be afraid to look at different methods.


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## txpaulie (Jul 21, 2010)

> I still think a bowl gouge or gouges the way to go. I use 5/8” for rough out and ½” for final turning. For a long time only used a ½” bowl gouge from start to finish. I also have scrappers but do not always use them.


I have a set of cheap carbon steel gouges but have great difficulty keeping control of the cut inside the bowl...
I picked up a better gouge, with a different (fingernail?) grind on it that is a great improvement, but I too find myself using a 1/2" scaper for most of the work.:huh:

p


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

To touch on several points: yes hogging out the inside of a large bowl is tedious. Make sure to stop and sharpen your tool from time to time, it will make a difference. 

is drilling cheating? When someone in a class that I was at asked this, the instructor replied "is this a turning class or a drilling class". :blink: (I almost always drill a 3/4" hole to set the depth so I don't turn right through the bottom).

gouge versus scraper? what ever you feel better with att he time. I use both at times, sometimes on the same bowl...just depends upon how the wood is cutting and how I'm cutting that day. If you're going to use a scraper get yourself one of these bad boys: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s..._Sorby_Extra_Heavy_Scraper___sorby_heavy?Args=, you'll appreciate the extra heft.

cheap tools versus expensive/quality tools. My dad was an auto mechanic all his working life and his philosophy (which I have sort of adopted for mine as well) was always buy the best tools you can afford, but don't blame the tool if you're not using it right.

I read a quote from one of the world famous turners (can't remember who it was, Jimmy Clewes, Trent Bosch, Alan Lacer...) but the quote was something like "I'm not saying this way is right or wrong, it's just what works for me NOW."

Anyway, keep practicing and do whatever you feel comfortable with.


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

sawdustfactory said:


> ..... If you're going to use a scraper get yourself one of these bad boys: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s..._Sorby_Extra_Heavy_Scraper___sorby_heavy?Args=, you'll appreciate the extra heft.


I have a couple of those, with the exception that they are the Henry Taylor Artisan brand... supposedly same steel just a little cheaper. I was talked into buying them before I got into turning, before I knew what I actually needed. Still being new to turning, I've yet to use them; mostly out of ignorance I guess. I'll give them a try when I'm having trouble with a gouge.


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## txpaulie (Jul 21, 2010)

Awww, man...
You just introduced me to another tool website..?
My wife's not gonna like this!:no:

I did get the chance to use several different tools in my recent class, and did enjoy the ones with the replacible tips...

Maybe...

p


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## Majestic Builders (Nov 15, 2008)

i did a 12 inch salad bowl a couple months ago, that i swear took me 4 hours to get to my roughed out stage.... god it was awfull!


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Guys,
It makes a big difference whether or not the wood is green or dry. Green bowls can be hogged out in short order with a good, sharp bowl gouge. I would recommend getting to know your bowl gouge very well. Practice with it and keep it sharp. You have to remember the inside of a bowl is changing grain direction several times with each revolution. Not to say you can't use a scraper, but if you practice up with your BG, you will appreciate it in the long run. We all take shortcuts in the beginning to make things work no matter what. Nothing wrong with that. Drilling a hole in the middle for a depth stop is a good idea. Keeps your bowl from turning into a funnel. Of course, half the fun is the suspense of wondering if you measured right when you are getting close to the bottom. 
Mike Hawkins
p.s. Wildwood, you seem to be speaking mighty *boldly*.:laughing:


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## slicksqueegie (Feb 9, 2011)

sawdustfactory said:


> is drilling cheating? When someone in a class that I was at asked this, the instructor replied "is this a turning class or a drilling class". :blink:


The Lathe has a tail stock that accepts a drill chuck. I understand his thoughts as a teacher, trying to teach "turning" but after you learn how to use the tool, (I would say 1 large bowl 8 hours worth of turning) long enough to understand the concepts and most do's and don'ts to the tools. but to boar out a 3"X6" chunk out of the center with a forstner bit would cut at least 2 hours of tedious turning... It's not cheating if you know how to turn... but it is if your in a class. just like a calculator is cheating in math class....
Is using a jointer cheating to make an edge perfect? Or do I have to break out the hand-planes for every board?:huh:


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Slick, I agree with you. It's hard to convey sarcasm when typing. That theme of id this a wood turning class or some other type of class came up all week long...it was quite funny by the end of the week.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

Drilling depth stop hole in a bowl, hollow form, or end grain box not cheating. This procedure has been around forever. Think of it as cheap insurance.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I can rough out the interior of a 7" bowl in about 15 minutes with a 1/2" bowl gouge. It just takes practice and understanding how the bowl gouge cuts. I use a Thompson 1/2" V bowl gouge. I have roughly the grind that comes on it. I think my wings might be ground back a little further and the cutting tip is a little bit sharper angle.
Most people start near the lip and cut toward the center trying to make it a little deeper in the center. Then do more or less the same thing each time getting the center a little deeper. Doing it this way you are cutting directly into end grain (assuming it's a side grain bowl)
If you pre drill out the center, I just use my bowl gouge and push it in. 2 or 3 times and I can get it quite deep. Then you hollow buy starting the cut just outside the hole hole and cut down. This cuts across the grain instead of into it.
What I do is to start shaping the inside of the bowl near the lip. I go down about 3 passes to clear out about an inch or inch and a half. Then I turn the bowl flute about 45 degrees to the left and cut away the waste wood in passes going from top to bottom each time going a little bit deeper but not cutting all the way to the final shape. It's hard to describe this in words. I'm cutting from right to left going from the wastewood out toward the bowl walls. It's really more of an inward or downward cut going across the grain. It goes very quick because you are cutting with almost the entire lower flute of the gouge. I can take out 1/2 to 3/4" per pass. I do this cut all the way to the middle but leave the walls of the bowl thicker as I go down. On small bowls I'll do this to just about shape the interior and then just make one or two passes down the side to clean it up. On larger bowls I may only lower the waste area by 1 1/2" and leave it solid. Then I make a pass down the bowl to get it as thin as I want. Then I repeat the process, cut down the side a little, waste out the middle, then make a final depth pass down the side blending with the first finished section.
I'm slow compared to the full time bowl turners. Glen Lucas turns a bowl in an incredibly short period of time. Look up Glen Lucas videos and you will see his method.


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## txpaulie (Jul 21, 2010)

Will do John...
I hope to one day posess the skill to turn as well as the veterans do...
I just needed reassurance that, with time and practice, a somewhat tedious chore would abate...
I still enjoy the time spent turning!:yes:

I am sure that the tedium would be less with better tools...
And I'm shopping...

...and I'm grateful for the idea of drilling a hole for depth, I don't recall having that info previously.

My biggest fear is spending a bunch of time working on a bowl and making a "funnel"(Thanks Mike).:laughing:

Okay, not my biggest fear..That would be flying monkeys.

p


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## slatron25 (Dec 18, 2007)

I wouldn't fear flying monkeys, now flying wood that's another thing. And yea drill it out first it help a lot.


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## wildwood (Jan 25, 2011)

Whether learning to turn bowls or spindle projects on the lathe time it takes should not matter. Learning the procedures, how to hold and manipulate tools, moving your body and feet, and why should be your goal. 

Rough out wet bowl:

Often rough out a bowl between centers using a two-prong center in headstock and revolving center in tailstock. If really wet wood and two prong center starts spinning, will drill a hole in bowl, screw in my “Screw Center,” and mount in chuck bring tailstock up for support. My goal is to start defining out-side of the bowl and turn a tenon or recess for mounting in my chuck. 


Once get recess or tenon mount in the chuck, bring up the tailstock for support, continue defining outside of bowl. Satisfied with the out-side of the bowl re-position the tool rest and start hogging out wood from the inside of the bowl leaving the tailstock in place. Starting at the rim of the bowl will hog as deep as can working toward the center leaving core of wood, which will turn away once moved tailstock out of the way. Then will remove blank from chuck and set aside to dry in the shop. 

If roughing out a shallow bowl, do not use tailstock support. Simply follow procedure outlined above. Mount in chuck square up face of bowl, and start hollowing center. May not always drill center. 

I try to work from largest to smallest diameter on both outside and inside bowl so am always cutting down hill. On small end grain bowls, will start in center and work my way outwards. May take me as little as six months to couple years to complete a bowl.


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## davedubanoski10 (Feb 10, 2011)

Sometimes using a bottom hole bit is easyer for me to get the depth i want. Then go to a gouge.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

All you have to do is make 100 bowls. No seriously. My first turnings were slow and painful. My arms would be tired, my back would hurt and it would take all day to make a bowl. Years later I have learned to let the tool do the work. I don't grip the gouge like I used to it's more of a relaxed cut. I rotate the tool so the tool rest takes the brunt of the force and I'm just guiding the tool. 
When you make a lot of something you learn where you can take big cuts and where you can't. You learn which cuts to take first and how to better hold the tool to get that cut. Since you have the shape already in your mind you don't waste time taking small cuts from rim to bottom, you make big cuts. With a bowl gouge and swept back wings you can make a cut removing 1/2" to 3/4" per pass. It doesn't take long to get rid of most of the waste. 
Watch the outside of the bowl and simply trace that shape using the handle to guide the bevel of the tool. Remember the bevel is like an arrow. The cut will go in the direction of the arrow. If you watch the outside and guide that bevel to match you won't cut through the bottom. In the last 10 years the only time I've cut through the bottom was when reverse turning the bottom on really thin bowls. It just takes practice. 
Here's where most beginners have problems. They put a precious piece of wood on the lathe trying to finish a gift for someone and failure is not an option. Don't do that. Well OK we all do, me included. What you should do is throw scrap wood on there and make a bowl. Concentrate on the cuts. Don't worry if it blows up. Just enjoy throwing shavings. A few dozen of these and you won't be nearly as intimidated when you need to turn the expensive wood.


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## RetiredLE (Jan 20, 2011)

This thread addresses some issues I have been having as well so here goes.

On my latest bowl, I used a large forstner bit to remove a significant portion of the material before chucking it back in the lathe. 

I was also having all kinds of problems using the large and small bowl gouges to hollow out the inside of the bowl (even after being sharpened they kept catching and digging into the wood) to the point of frustration so I used the parting tool to make a series of internal (progressively larger) tenons. 

Following that, I used a round nose scraper to finish off the inside surface. It worked. Those damn bowl gouges just may lay there and gather dust now I dunno.....


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## Terry V (Feb 5, 2011)

john lucas said:


> Here's where most beginners have problems. They put a precious piece of wood on the lathe trying to finish a gift for someone and failure is not an option. Don't do that. Well OK we all do, me included. What you should do is throw scrap wood on there and make a bowl. Concentrate on the cuts. Don't worry if it blows up. Just enjoy throwing shavings. A few dozen of these and you won't be nearly as intimidated when you need to turn the expensive wood.


I think this is right. I see people working on big chunks of hard dry wood and struggling to make a deep vertical-sided bowl. Everything is against them. Better to use easier wood, make more conical, narrow-bottomed bowls and practice on small bowls. You soon get to the point where tool control comes naturally and you can move on to tougher challenges.

As for drilling the waste out, it seems to me that if your aim is just to make a few bowls, drilling and scraping are fine, they get the job done. But if the aim is to learn turning and be able to produce the shape you want without worrying about the tools, you should move away from scrapers.

Inside a deep bowl you may need a gouge with a very short bevel. A long bevel cannot rest on the wood at the bottom of the bowl because the handle hits the sides or the tool rest will not go low enough.

I make lots of bowls. I rough out most of my green wood blanks in probably 5-10 minutes using only a gouge. When they are dry I finish with the gouge on the inside and gouge plus gentle shear scraping to finish on the outside. None of it is hard work.

Terry

My bowls


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