# Table Saw and Router - Please Advise



## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Hello All,

I am looking at purchasing both a table saw and router..I have been looking at the ryobi line, mainly due to budget. My type of project are pretty much limited to small projects around the house..currently planning a desk/scrap-booking table for my GF. Something simple in design, but functunal for her based on her space requirements...I digress

So, as I said, I am looking into purchashing the tools above. I am just getting into woodworking so some of my skill sets are being developed. The items I am looking at are attached..
Ryobi - R163RTA(router) and RTS10 (saw).
Please give me your thoughts on these choices. Any advice you can give would be appreciated.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

I would watch Craigslist for a more substantial used TS, then you could mount a router in the extension wing. :smile:


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

While I have had a couple of Ryobi table saws (A BTS21, and BT3100) I have never liked the BTS series saws all that well. Too small, limited in capacity, especially Dado width. Which is part of the reason I sold my BTS21. They can make good cuts though, just replace the junk OEM blade with a decent one. The Diablo blades from Freud that Home Depot sells are excellent... 

IF you can find one on your local Craigslist, you will get MUCH more saw if you get a good condition BT3100 or BT3000. Depending on your local market they can be had in great condition for about what you would pay for that BTS10 new...

I had a Ryobi router for about 10 years, loved it, but finally outgrew it by needing to spin 1/2" shank bits... If you aren't going to raise panels or anything like that, a 1/4" shank router can work very well for you...


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

mdntrdr said:


> I would watch Craigslist for a more substantial used TS, then you could mount a router in the extension wing. :smile:


Thanks mdntrdr...That sounds like a more substantial and permanant setup than I can do know. We are renting and although we have a garage, we park both cars in which minimizes work space. I need something that could be put away in between work time.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

dbhost said:


> While I have had a couple of Ryobi table saws (A BTS21, and BT3100) I have never liked the BTS series saws all that well. Too small, limited in capacity, especially Dado width. Which is part of the reason I sold my BTS21. They can make good cuts though, just replace the junk OEM blade with a decent one. The Diablo blades from Freud that Home Depot sells are excellent...
> 
> IF you can find one on your local Craigslist, you will get MUCH more saw if you get a good condition BT3100 or BT3000. Depending on your local market they can be had in great condition for about what you would pay for that BTS10 new...
> 
> I had a Ryobi router for about 10 years, loved it, but finally outgrew it by needing to spin 1/2" shank bits... If you aren't going to raise panels or anything like that, a 1/4" shank router can work very well for you...


Thanks dbhost...I will do a quick search on craigslist but I gotta get something soon. I promised my GF this project a while ago and havent made a move yet. It's 120 at HD so it may be suffiecient for now. i will take your advice with the blades as well. As far as the router. I don't even know where to begin with the shank sizes. I did plan on using it in the desk build to create some ledges to sit the table top on. Could you give me a brief tutorial on the sizes and capabilities?


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## doug1980 (Mar 28, 2011)

I have both of those and so far they work well. I do want a better table saw at some point but for now I'm happy with it.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

doug1980 said:


> I have both of those and so far they work well. I do want a better table saw at some point but for now I'm happy with it.


Thanks doug..I am a tirekicker as my girlfriend says, so I will probably research a few more days. I plan to know out the desk this week-end. Finalizing the design now so I will be picking up something very soon.


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

Although I try to be as encouraging as I can be in every post that I write, I just cannot be encouraging about this one. I have had some Ryobi tools and I have to say, that I have never been happy with them. I had a Ryobi table saw and the unit just screamed. Completely deafening and it's accuracy was non existant. Try as I might to calibrate it, it just kept going out of alignment. I can't say anything nice or even positive about these products because I am a little tainted. My suggestion, (from experience) is to combine whatever money you have for both tools, and purchase one of a higher quality. Personally, I would look for a higher quality table saw and get a router table later. For that matter, you could get a higher quality table saw and make your own router table. A router is not necessarily a must have. You can get by without it. I wouldn't want to see you compromise quality over quantity. 2 substandard tools is still just substandard tools. Sorry I can't be more reassuring. This is, of course, only my opinion.
Ken


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Kenbo said:


> Although I try to be as encouraging as I can be in every post that I write, I just cannot be encouraging about this one. I have had some Ryobi tools and I have to say, that I have never been happy with them. I had a Ryobi table saw and the unit just screamed. Completely deafening and it's accuracy was non existant. Try as I might to calibrate it, it just kept going out of alignment. I can't say anything nice or even positive about these products because I am a little tainted. My suggestion, (from experience) is to combine whatever money you have for both tools, and purchase one of a higher quality. Personally, I would look for a higher quality table saw and get a router table later. For that matter, you could get a higher quality table saw and make your own router table. A router is not necessarily a must have. You can get by without it. I wouldn't want to see you compromise quality over quantity. 2 substandard tools is still just substandard tools. Sorry I can't be more reassuring. This is, of course, only my opinion.
> Ken


Ken, thanks for you candid response. I can appreciate honesty, whether in favor of or against a decision. As I am just getting into this, I need to hear about brands, tools, and all the things required to do good quality work and enjoy it while doing it. I like working with my hands and as of now, I have plenty of time. The reason I am going "budget" shopping is that I am out of work so purchasing a 'high' end anything is a little down the road. I am more so looking for a good beginner set of items to help me learn how to operate and manipulate the machinery so that I am comfortable doing more with more later. 
As far as the router goes, I thought that would be the simplest way for someone like myself to do rabbitt cuts. I know this could be done with a table saw but it seems to be a skill-driven activity. a skill in which I am not sure I have developed.


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## kb2tha (Mar 23, 2011)

Check out ebay for a good used Porter Cable router. The round top PC are rated at 7/8 hp and sufficient for any 1/4" bit you would ever use. If you are looking for something a little heavier duty, consider a 1-1/2 hp 690 series. They come with a 1/4" and 1/2" collet. Both excellent choices IMO. 
Ken


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

I agree with the comment on the Ryobi router. Mine came with both collets which is nice but it is loud and rough to use. The plunge lock lever broke after a few uses. It is supposed to be a soft start but it's very rough. I now have a Ridgid set I'm very plea with. Great warranty solid construction. Easy to adjust from table top etc.
The ryobi is now just a rarely used backup that hangs under my table saw.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

IMO, the type of saw is more important than the brand. In this case, a cheap lightweight benchtop style TS isn't a great example of a TS regardless of the brand. They tend to be very small, poorly built, sloppy, loud, somewhat unreliable, and have poor resale value. If you've got the room I think you'd be much better off with a full size cast iron saw with a belt drive induction motor....decent used examples are often for sale in the $100-$300 range (or less). The larger table surface is safer and easier to use, are quieter, more powerful, and are heavier and more stable...heavy enough to support a router table mounted on one of the wings. 

I also think you'll have little trouble finding a higher quality router within your budget. There are many, many good quality routers around...sales, closeouts, and reconditioned tools aren't hard to come by, and can help put you into a better router for the same money. Hitachi, Bosch, Ridgid, PC, DW, Makita, Milwaukee, Triton, Freud, and Craftsman all offer some nice routers. 

An example of a full size cast iron contractor saw:









Here's my old contractor saw with router table:


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I've got a BTS211, which is sort of the next step up from the one you're looking at. It's a contractor saw, and it folds down nicely into something with wheels on one end, but it's still pretty heavy -- about 80 pounds -- which means it can be made relatively stable.

It does require quite a lot more fiddling to make it cut perfectly straight than is ideal -- I find myself a lot more comfortable if I check the blade/fence alignment every time I move the fence -- but it can be made to make good, clean cuts. I looked at the lighter "benchtop" saw, which is the one you've got a picture of in your post, and I decided the extra money was worth it. That one seemed like it just wasn't going to be able to make clean cuts in a long piece of lumber, and certainly wouldn't be possible to cut big sheets of plywood with. (It's a bit questionable on the 211, but I've done it... it takes two people and a lot of extra stands to support the edges, and it's still not a great idea.)

All in all, I'd go with whatever the next step up for table saw is, and not bother with the router table unless you really need it: that one in particular didn't seem worth it. Buy the router on its own and use that plus the table saw to build a better router table.

Edit: Also, one thing to beware of with at least some of the Ryobi saws: there is no easy way to make a zero clearance insert for them. I'm working on figuring it out right now, but basically there's only about 1/16" between the support for the insert and the top of the table. That makes it pretty hard to build a safe, solid insert, so you kind of have to count on being able to buy one. As far as I can tell, Ryobi never made one for the BTS211.


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