# Windows per wall question



## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

I may get tossed out of here - if I'm in the wrong section, but here goes:

Does anyone know what the window area to wall area ratio is? IOW's, how many windows can I have in a given wall and still maintain structural integrity?

My wife and I are planning a 28' x 24' garage shop and want to have a much glass as we can safely have on the North wall. I have not had a chance to get these details from a contractor because we are still in the rough bidding process.

I have drawn up four 4' wide windows along the 28' wall but this may not be advisable.

Any comments or suggestions will be most welcome.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Don't mean to sound like a smart ass, but greenhouses are pretty much ALL glass. I'm guessing you have already designed yourself into certain other parameters, and they're so obvious to you that you didn't think to tell the rest of us what they are. I do that all the time.


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## Johnny5 (Mar 7, 2014)

The number of windows is directly proportionate to the size of the budget. There are many, many structural options out there to overcome pretty much any open span situation. An entire wall, floor to ceiling, of frameless glass is not out of the question......


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

Johnny5 said:


> The number of windows is directly proportionate to the size of the budget. There are many, many structural options out there to overcome pretty much any open span situation. An entire wall, floor to ceiling, of frameless glass is not out of the question......


Your words are magic to my ears because we both like to paint and Northern light is superb because it seemingly never changes from sunup to nearly sundown. I also plan on tying flies like I used to do several years back, so the more windows this North wall has the better we will like it.

I did all of my woodworking in a basement in Chicago and positively cannot wait to begin work in a nice workshop with natural sunlight.

I appreciate your comments.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

SteveEl said:


> Don't mean to sound like a smart ass, but greenhouses are pretty much ALL glass. I'm guessing you have already designed yourself into certain other parameters, and they're so obvious to you that you didn't think to tell the rest of us what they are. I do that all the time.


No offense taken at all.

Our plan is the have the 28'x24' garage-shop have as much glass as is possible on the North 28' wall. The South wall will have a 16' garage door which we hope can be opened in cooler months and allow the sunlight to enter and warm the concrete floor. The East wall will have three 4' wide windows evenly spaced. The West wall will mostly be blocked by our existing 14' wide one-car garage which is used as a tool shed. This will help block the hot summer sun during the hotter summer months.

Walls will be 2"x6" with a 9-10 foot ceiling covered with a 12" flat roof each insulated appropriately.

Thanks for your comments.


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## Moark Willy (Jan 10, 2013)

There are two considerations when building an exterior wall with a lot of windows. Whatever sections of the wall that are NOT window will be the bracing that keeps the wall square and sturdies it from racking. Whether it be diagonal bracing or the wall covering itself. Over the windows as you well know there needs to be an adequate header to carry the load over the windows. Since you are building on concrete you have the opportunity to place steel posts within the walls bolted to the floor, and even a steel beam header over the windows. Both of these will allow you to put just about as much glass as you want. But remember this. Any garage with 2 overhead doors can have a 24' wall with 16' or even 20' of opening (the doors) without issue. Again it goes back to how you keep the wall from racking and using an appropriate size header.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

Sounds like a plan to me!

As for the framing of the wall, you could have a steel beam put across the top with posts on the corners to support the roof and have the walls tied into that. 

Think about the beam that runs across your floor joists in your basement. They generally aren't that big and sometimes support a massive amount of weight depending on how your house was built. 


One thing you may have already considered is that your gaining alot of sun light coming in those windows but you will be exposing your shop to people looking in. 

Do you want these windows to open?
Have you considered glass block? They make pretty clear styles and they will have alot better R- value than standard windows.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

*Amen!*



Moark Willy said:


> There are two considerations when building an exterior wall with a lot of windows. Whatever sections of the wall that are NOT window will be the bracing that keeps the wall square and sturdies it from racking. Whether it be diagonal bracing or the wall covering itself. Over the windows as you well know there needs to be an adequate header to carry the load over the windows. Since you are building on concrete you have the opportunity to place steel posts within the walls bolted to the floor, and even a steel beam header over the windows. Both of these will allow you to put just about as much glass as you want. But remember this. Any garage with 2 overhead doors can have a 24' wall with 16' or even 20' of opening (the doors) without issue. Again it goes back to how you keep the wall from racking and using an appropriate size header.


Great post!! 

I had not thought about using steel in the North window wall. I will definitely bring this up to our contractor. You comment on the garage door opening was spot-on! I do not think our double-car garage in Chicago had much over a foot and a-half of 'wall' on either side of the garage door and it never fell over. That was an awesome point.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post your comments. I feel much better about all of this now.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

chicago said:


> I feel much better about all of this now.


Based just on us hacks on an internet forum? Hopefully you're not hiring any ol' contractor with a song and dance. They might actually know structural design, and they might just look good on stage. Suggest taking your ideas to a pro structural eng or architect, and the local building inspectors.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

BigJoe16 said:


> Sounds like a plan to me!
> 
> As for the framing of the wall, you could have a steel beam put across the top with posts on the corners to support the roof and have the walls tied into that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your great comments.

Direct sunlight is a concern which is why we plan on only having three windows on the East side of the building. There is a range of granite spires (the Organ Mtns) east of us which causes the sun to 'rise' a bit later than normal. This keeps some of the direct sun from reaching us in the early morning. However, once the sun rises above the Organ's things can really heat up in a hurry. In the winter months, the sun is not the heat threat that it is in the summer.

As to having the windows open or not, at the moment I would say that a nice cool breeze would be nice to have, but only time will tell on that. The glass blocks are not something that I had thought of. My wife was an interior designer for Herman-Miller for over 30 years and worked with architects for many years. She might like that idea. The R-value of the glass blocks is a great point.

One thing that I am keenly aware of is the rattlesnakes. Keeping the garage door open during the summer month is not a very good idea which is why having open windows is way smarter. We live on about 4 acres of land and the rattler's are much more of a threat than prying eyes.

Thanks again.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Check your local building codes.

Where I am there are minimum and maximum fenestration/square footage ratios that are tied directly to energy consumption.

There are different types of glazing systems that are part of this overall equation.

There are also code requirements regarding egress that take into account a minimum opening size, how the windows operate and what room they're in.

Its not as simple as it may seem.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

chicago said:


> Thanks for your great comments.
> 
> Direct sunlight is a concern which is why we plan on only having three windows on the East side of the building. There is a range of granite spires (the Organ Mtns) east of us...


Las Cruces?


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## Moark Willy (Jan 10, 2013)

chicago said:


> Thanks so much for taking the time to post your comments.


And you are very welcome. Good luck with your project.:thumbsup:


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> Check your local building codes.
> 
> Where I am there are minimum and maximum fenestration/square footage ratios that are tied directly to energy consumption.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your insightful comments.

Today I plan to pay a visit to the local county Building Inspector's office and see what they have to say on the matter. Since this is a garage that will be used as a workshop a little voice on my shoulder is telling me to be careful that I do not go overboard least they begin to think this will be a 'living space' rather than just a plain old garage. They may question me as to why we want so much glass on the North wall. I will know more when I return from my visit. I just want to keep this process as simple as possible.

Las Cruces? Yes, we're in the Southern part of NM not too far from El Paso. I used to work at the Chevron Refinery there a few years back.

Thanks again for your help.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

As long as there is sufficient structure to hold the roof up you could put as much glass as you wanted. Commercial buildings support the structure with steel so they can use a lot of glass.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> As long as there is sufficient structure to hold the roof up you could put as much glass as you wanted. Commercial buildings support the structure with steel so they can use a lot of glass.


Residential building codes and commercial codes are quite different.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> Residential building codes and commercial codes are quite different.


There may be architectural codes restricting the amount of windows but I don't think a building inspector would object to an I beam holding up an exterior wall, especially one story. I often use a 10/26 I-beam when taking out a bearing wall.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Counting doors and windows I have 15 across my back wall.
Tom


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

chicago said:


> Your words are magic to my ears because we both like to paint and Northern light is superb because it seemingly never changes from sunup to nearly sundown. I also plan on tying flies like I used to do several years back, so the more windows this North wall has the better we will like it. I did all of my woodworking in a basement in Chicago and positively cannot wait to begin work in a nice workshop with natural sunlight. I appreciate your comments.


It is structurally possible to have glass as your exterior floor to ceiling corner to corner all the way around your building. 

We live in Australia so for us it is the southern light that is the thing. On my workshop / man cave my southern wall will be all glass. I will also have a south facing 'wall' in my roof to give more window space. 

The building can be done if doing from scratch or major alterations to have overhangs, canter levers and internal bracing. 

Local building code should not dictate amount of glass but may dictate thickness and type for safety and thermal reasons. There may be aesthetic considerations too. 

Having white walls and ceilings and a light floor on the interior is also going to help with light.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

What about skylights?


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> There may be architectural codes restricting the amount of windows but I don't think a building inspector would object to an I beam holding up an exterior wall, especially one story. I often use a 10/26 I-beam when taking out a bearing wall.


Your absolutely right about the structural aspect Steve.

All I'm saying is that there may be code restrictions on the amount of fenestration allowed that are driven by new energy conservation standards.

That would be something that Chicago should be aware of during research and planning (sooner better than later) so as not be blindsided down the road.

Just sayin'


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

Well, I see that everyone has been getting along just fine without me. Lol!

As promised, I went down to the County Bldg Inspector's (CBI) today and it was time well spent. 

When I asked if there was a restriction on how many windows I could have in any given wall, the lady said, "No! So long as it has appropriate header's etc and meets normal bldg spec's." Great!

She asked if it would have a walk-in door or just a garage door or both. I said both. Then she wanted to make clear that there must be an overhead light above the door on the exterior side and that it must have a switch just to the side of the the door on the interior. I guess I thought this might be the case, but I was expecting her to say that the switch would light up the interior of the garage and not the exterior safety light. Either way I would have probably done just that, but I would rather know about this now than later. No problem here.

In talking to the three contractor's that we have, there has been some confusion as to whether or not the new garage can be attached or joined to the existing one-car garage. She said that the new garage could share a common wall with the existing one-car garage. But, if we did not want it attached, the new building had to be a minimum of 10 ft from the existing one-car garage. We prefer the new building not be attached, so this really cleared this up for us.

She was concerned about set backs until she realized that we live in the middle of a 4 acre lot (approx.) so again, this was not an issue. I gave her our address and up came Google Maps. Quck and easy.

Our last lingering issue is just how the electric is going to be run from our existing breaker box to the new bldg. She said that we could go across the roof of our existing home or go underground, both in metal piping, of course. I prefer the former as the latter would be nearly twice the distance and definitely more disruptive.

Once we get the last of our bids in, we can decide on a contractor and then fine tune the window placement and so on.

I will keep everyone posted as we progress.

Thanks to all for the great comments and suggestions.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

chicago said:


> Well, I see that everyone has been getting along just fine without me. Lol!


We are getting along. All bases have been covered yes?

Sounds like you have clear sailing ahead.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

BigJoe16 said:


> What about skylights?


Actually, what I have been thinking about is SolaTubes. I saw these demoed in El Paso several years ago and was amazed. How they would work in our case, I am not certain. But the thing to keep in mind is that we do not want the heat, but we do want the light. These solar tubes do just that. They are pricey, but they may just be the ticket.

The problem with skylights is that you have very little control over the heat entering the bldg. A few years back this area was hit with a hugh hail storm that brought skylight contractor's from several states just to make all the repairs necessary. Not saying that this will happen again, but the solar tubes have a smaller 'foot print' which will not make them any less susceptible to damage should the hail come again.

Who knows? Thanks for the thought.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

jharris2 said:


> We are getting along. All bases have been covered yes?
> 
> Sounds like you have clear sailing ahead.


Amen on the bases!

All we are lacking now is the electrical. Hopefully, this will get resolved tomorrow. I will post photos as the work progresses.

Thanks for all the great input.

BTW, I love Jack's quote. Very funny!


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## Moark Willy (Jan 10, 2013)

chicago said:


> Our last lingering issue is just how the electric is going to be run from our existing breaker box to the new bldg.


Just remember that you will need a 4 wire feed AND a grounding rod (or 2) at the new panel. :yes:


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

Moark Willy said:


> Just remember that you will need a 4 wire feed AND a grounding rod (or 2) at the new panel. :yes:


Got it! The electrican just left and I have faith in him. We decided it would be best to go underground from our existing breaker box to the new building. Waiting on his quote as I type. He has to get a quote from his trencher guy before he can figure cost.

I did mention the grounding rod and he concurred.

Thanks for the heads-up.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm jealous...I really want a new above ground shop.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> I'm jealous...I really want a new above ground shop.


I feel your pain. 

I worked in a cold basement in Chicago for ten years and really struggled when doing detail work because of the poor light (and aging eyes, I might add). I cannot begin to grasp what it will really be like to work in a roomy garage/shop with abundant sunlight to work with. 

Sometimes I wonder if this shop-building process is really just a cruel dream. I hope it is not.

Take care.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

chicago said:


> Actually, what I have been thinking about is SolaTubes.


i would recommend keeping that thought on a back burner. being a contractor, i have had a lot more calls to repair/seal roof devices, skylights, etc than i have had to install them. any roof penetration breaks the roof integrity, and should be considered very carfully. 

like you i have often thought how nice the solar tube lighting would be. have not installed them on any house i've owned. but if you do, i wish you the best with it. maybe they have a fail-proof weather tight method. let us know.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

TimPa said:


> i would recommend keeping that thought on a back burner. being a contractor, i have had a lot more calls to repair/seal roof devices, skylights, etc than i have had to install them. any roof penetration breaks the roof integrity, and should be considered very carfully.
> 
> like you i have often thought how nice the solar tube lighting would be. have not installed them on any house i've owned. but if you do, i wish you the best with it. maybe they have a fail-proof weather tight method. let us know.


Tim,

Thanks for the good advice.

The solar tube's will probably not be used. I hear you loud and clear on the roof leaks. I do not think anything can be more infuriating that a roof leak _espcially_ in a new structure.

To be brutally honest, I am having difficulty trying to figure out just how 'bright' the garage-shop will be with any given window configuration. The North wall is not a concern as this does not provide direct sunlight. It only provides nearly constant indirect sunlight which is why the old master painter's used North facing walls to paint under while indoors. My workbench will be positioned very close to this North facing wall.

The East wall is another matter altogether. It can provide both direct and indirct sunlight. This is a classic example of wanting to having my cake and eat it too. By that I mean, I would like to have all of the light, but none of the heat that comes with direct sunlight ... in the summer, that is. This is why I was considering the solar tubes.

On the other hand, in the winter I want both the light _*and*_ the heat. So, you see, the donkey is really straddling the fence on this one. My original plan was four 4-ft windows on the North 28-ft wall and three 4-ft windows on the East 24-ft wall. At this moment I think that is what I am going to plan on because I can always put blinds on the East wall window's if the heat is too intense in the early hours of the Summer months. There is no way I'm going to tell my wife that I messed up and will have to add another window after the shop is built. There would be no place to hide if I tried to pull that.

At the moment, I am still in the drawing phase - and waiting on the electrical estimate. When the drawings are done, I should have a better idea about the light. I really believe that there is no perfect solution to this. All I can do is carefully consider all the window options vs the arc of the sun throughout the year and make the best guess from that and live with it knowing I did my best. Hopefully, in the end, this will be work out in our favor.

Thanks again for your comments.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

TimPa said:


> i would recommend keeping that thought on a back burner. being a contractor, i have had a lot more calls to repair/seal roof devices, skylights, etc than i have had to install them. any roof penetration breaks the roof integrity, and should be considered very carfully. like you i have often thought how nice the solar tube lighting would be. have not installed them on any house i've owned. but if you do, i wish you the best with it. maybe they have a fail-proof weather tight method. let us know.


I have installed a number of Velux windows over the years (skylights) and done a number of roof penetrations. Never have I been called back to fix a leak in my own work. 

I agree, reduce penetrations. Where possible have them outside the footprint of the house (in roof overhang space where you have an eaves)

All said and done I would still use a skylight if I wanted one. I am not familiar with the ones mentioned here but can highly recommend Velux though they are not cheap their flashing is very good for the Australian climate etc

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Moark Willy (Jan 10, 2013)

High windows....much like the old fashioned transom windows will help with lighting and not be in the way. If you choose hopper type windows they will help with ventilation. I'm still in the "thinking" phase of my shop and it's not going to be very large, so wall space is more important than windows at this point. As far as skylights go, installed properly they do not leak. (keyword being properly). I'm fairly certain that high windows will be the route I choose.:yes:


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## Civilian (Jul 6, 2013)

chicago said:


> Actually, what I have been thinking about is SolaTubes......


A friend of mine put an addition on his house in RI. The upstairs part was accessed by his old bedroom that only had one window. That window became the door to a hallway leading to two bedrooms. In that old bedroom, now totally dark even in the daytime, he installed a SolaTube. If there were two diameters, it was their larger one. On a sunny day, that room became lit up like the ceiling was open to the sky. That SolaTube opened in the roof facing south. If it faced north, I do not know what the difference would be. He felt it was well worth it.

Jon
Northern Michigan


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

*Shop Construction Update*

We've made some progress since my last post. The construction has progressed slowly, but steadily forward.

The first two photos show the building from the West and North facing views. The third photo is from the interior looking just about true North. The forth photo shows the two 14-inch solar tubes. Our dog, Bella, is checking the doorway for bugs. The last photo is an early morning shot looking Eastward.

The window positions have been a compromise. A perfect donkey-across-the-fence scenario. At this time of year - on a clear day, the East facing window's will be too much. In the winter month's they will be lacking in both warmth and light. The garage door will be opened during the sunny winter days to warm up the place. I am sure we'll all manage just fine.

Lastly, to those passers-by, I would bet good money that once they look at the new shop a few times and note the windows and the garage door, they will exclaim, "Hell'a lota windows for a garage!" Good name as any for the new shop.

The doors will be installed tomorrow followed by the window's on Wednesday. So I am told, anyway. The stucco will be applied soon after. 

The electrical was placed underground and is now wired awaiting inspection.

The 18-wheeler with our furniture and tools is due here this weekend or the first of next week. It was supposed to have been here on the 19th so we lucked out this time because we needed the extra time to get the shell up. Now, I will have a place to put my tools. The rest should fit in our home. We hope anyway.

Will post more as we progress.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

looking good, cant wait to see the next instalment

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I am gathering from my reading of this thread that there are now places where the eco freaks have gotten into the building code business. Are they now telling us how we must build out homes so that energy conservation is paramount?

I like light in a shop, but also value my wall space. 

George


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> I am gathering from my reading of this thread that there are now places where the eco freaks have gotten into the building code business. Are they now telling us how we must build out homes so that energy conservation is paramount?
> 
> I like light in a shop, but also value my wall space.
> 
> George


Ah, wall space! You, sir, have hit the nail directly on its head.

Let me first make note of the fact that I spent the last ten years doing my woodworking in a damp, dark Chicago basement. While I did enjoy chatting with its resident mushrooms and learning about the benefits of soil nutrients in sunless environments, most of my time was spent dreaming about the day I would have a bright, warm and cheery workshop. Those are my 'credential's for designing my new workshop such as it is.

That said, the new shop was, for a time, a balancing act between window placement/count and wall space. I have come to realize that regardless of the number or placement of the windows, it will always be a compromise dependent on time of year. No heating or cooling is planned for the new shop. If required it can be added later, but I do not think it will be necessary. Personally, I have never required much 'heating'. Shade is sufficient to keep me cool.

I think I will have sufficient wall space to satisfy my needs. Our furniture and tools should be delivered in the very near future. Once I assemble all of my tools and get them in place I will have a much clearer idea of wall space volume. My chisels, carving gouges and hand-planes should all be within easy reach. (I do not like drawer's or shelves built into my work bench for these tools.) The rest can go into shelves at the rear of the shop on both sides of the garage door.

I could go on, but in truth, only time will reveal how well I have planned all of this.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The building looks good so far. You do have some wall space between windows. The fun starts when planning on how to use it.








 







.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Looking good, and I see it is already occupied by your buddy.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> The building looks good so far. You do have some wall space between windows. The fun starts when planning on how to use it.


I hear you on the wall space. 

Today they installed the new garage door and I was shocked how that simple change made the shop appear smaller. Our contractor said, "Wait until they put the windows in tomorrow.". Great! The shrinking shop. Just what I wanted. When all the tools arrive, I may have room for my coffee cup. Ha!

I've been waiting for this shop for ten years and cannot wait for all of my tools to take up residence. No doubt wall space will be at a premium, but we'll manage as best we can.


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## chicago (Jul 5, 2012)

FrankC said:


> Looking good, and I see it is already occupied by your buddy.


Thanks for the thumbs-up on the new shop.

Yes, Bella is always around. We've been worried that she'll meet up with a rattle snake. So far, so good. She may be wiser than we think, but we live in the desert where they live. Yesterday, my wife saw a road runner snatch a lizard. You never know what you'll see next around here.


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