# Quickest way for a through mortise in 2x4 for 2x3?



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Creating a rack to hang from the joists in my basement. Just for the heck of it, I want to use a through mortise to Put a 2x3 through a 2x4. I'm guessing drill and jigsaw, then chisel. Sound about right?


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*need a bit more info on this*

You are going to hang a 2 x 3 from a mortise/hole in a 2 x 4?
That doesn't leave enough side wall material for strength in my opinion. Better to use a 2 x 6 for the hanger.
Yes drill 4 holes, jig saw to the holes and if necessary, chisel to sharpen the corners or round off the 2 x 3 to suit the hole radii.
Not knowing the specific application and the loads involved it all guess work at this point......  There are many ways to hang a board from the ceiling joists. :yes: bill


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Yes I am very tight on space and discovered that my bench grinder will fit up there; all 60 lbs or so of it. I just want two bars going across that I can rest the ply and frame that it's mounted on so the pressure should be down only, except perhaps when pulling it out to use. Do you still think 2x4 is too narrow? 

Thanks. 

Thanks for pointing out 4 holes. Probably would have tried 1 hole and turned the blade.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

railaw said:


> Do you still think 2x4 is too narrow?


Yes, agree with Woodnthings, not enough sidewall remaining.

You could rip the 2x3 to be 2x2. Smaller hole, less work. For the vertical load, 2x2 should be fine.


----------



## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. 

maybe you can store other things up there . things that dont weigh 60 pounds . clamps. jigs. etc.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Chain mortiser......


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

It's a good height for me. Plus the mitre saw wont fit up there and thats he only other space i have. II will either rip it to 2x2 or use some 2 x8 that I have laying around if it's long enough. 


Was thinking of storing some boards across the joists in a different par of the basement by screwing some. 2x3 together in an F shape and attaching the short ends of the F on its side to the joists. Then they could be loaded in from the side. maybe even hoold the smaller sheet goods that I have. 

Can you tell space is really at a premium?


Don't have a chain mortiser or know what one is...


----------



## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

railaw said:


> Don't have a chain mortiser or know what one is...


Warner will be happy to show you his "portable." :yes:

Why not use pipe or threaded rod through the 2x4? It would leave you with much more material to support the load.


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Thx. Pipe is a good idea but my building materials are limited to whatever's lying around the basement.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You would have to make a tenon on the 2x3 to make a through mortise. You could make the tenon about 3/4" wide. To cut the mortise assuming you have basic tools I would use a drill press if you have one and use a 3/4" paddle bit and drill a series of holes through the 2x4 and then hand chisel out the waste. You could do it with a hand drill if you are real good at drilling straight but I would make the holes undersize say about 5/8" so you can true the hole out by hand. Bottom line unless you have some type of mortising equipment it's not quick or easy. If this is something you would want to do often I would purchase a hollow punch mortising machine. It is basically a machine that has a drill bit in the center of a square chisel so it drills a square hole.


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

This is a one off thing. Not sure why I would need to make a tenon - do you mean b/c the 2 x4 isn't wide enough? I'd rather use a wider board than. Bother with that. I don't have a decent backsaw yet. 

I do have a drill press with a Mortising thing (that's a technical term); it's a delta homecraft from the 50's but haven't gotten around to setting it up. Amd i dont have any mortising chisel bit things yet It took me six months to get to the Bench grinder set up and now I have a chisel and some planes to get in working order before I can do anything, as I don't have a jointer or a planer. I think by the time I get to that it'll be time to move. 

Thanks all for your input on what is essentially a dumb project. I'll use nice wide boards so the thin doesn't come down on my head and kill me. and post a few pictures of course when I'm done.

EDIT: i might as well learn something from this; is there a ratio or rule of thumb for deciding how wide a mortise can be? Thanks.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

railaw said:


> Creating a rack to hang from the joists in my basement. Just for the heck of it, I want to use a through mortise to Put a 2x3 through a 2x4. I'm guessing drill and jigsaw, then chisel. Sound about right?


I'm not sure I understand what you are asking here. Are you putting the "mortise" in the edge (1½") side of the 2x4 or in the face (3½") side?:huh:


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Through face. And I can put the 2x3 on Its short edge If that helps with size issues.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

railaw said:


> Through face. And I can put the 2x3 on Its short edge If that helps with size issues.


That's what I thought. Do you have a good plunge router? guide bushings?
I'd make a template and go after them with a 1/2" spiral bit. You could make them the exact size of the 2x3 and since most off the shelf construction lumber already has 1/4" radiused edges, the 2x3 will slip right in. Other wise you can round the 2x3's over with a router bit or sandpaper. :yes:


----------



## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

It is my amature understanding that a tenon should be 1/3 the thickness of the board that it is cut out of, leaving a shoulder on either side of roughly the same thickness. The obvious problem with cutting a tenon for your application is that your joists are already in place, so you wouldn't be able to slide the 2x3 clear through. 

My concern would primarily be with cutting a 2x3 hole into the face of a 2x4. That leaves just an inch of material on the top and the bottom (above and below the mortise). For stud grade pine, that could be structurally insufficient for the whole. 

A better approach might be to cut shallow half laps on the ends of your 2x3's (or whatever wood you find and decide to use). This leaves your joists in tact and better supports the weight in the one direction that gravity will be pulling it.

Again, this is my very amature opinion.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Maybe we are just picturing what you are doing wrong. If you are planning to put the 2x3 through the 3 1/2" face of the 2x4 than it would work. In this case you can put board on the base of your drill press to protect the bit and use a 1 1/2" paddle bit and drill a hole at each end of the slot. Then you can cut the rest out with a jig saw. You could also make a template and make the cut with a plunge router. 

On post 10 I was picturing putting the 2x3 through the edge of the 2x4.


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Perhaps this will help: 









Or The 2x3 might be turned90deg


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

railaw said:


> Perhaps this will help:
> 
> View attachment 48962
> 
> ...


Helps a lot, that's pretty much what I thought you were doing. I'd leave the 2x3 on edge as drawn. Leaves plenty of 2x4 stock around it and will be less likely to do any bowing in that direction.:thumbsup:
I still think a router and guide bushing approach would give you the cleanest, best fitting hole, If you have to tools available.


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

I do have a plunge router but only the woodcraft bit set. The half inch straight bit is very short and I don't think it would reach all the way through the wood. I don't have any bushings And am not enthusiastic about making a template for two cuts. I would like to use the router but prob will just go with the jigsaw and drill.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

railaw said:


> I do have a plunge router but only the woodcraft bit set. The half inch straight bit is very short and I don't think it would reach all the way through the wood. I don't have any bushings And am not enthusiastic about making a template for two cuts. I would like to use the router but prob will just go with the jigsaw and drill.


Spade bit and a jigsaw will work fine. I just got used to using a router for more things than I ever intended. Template for that would just be a rectangular hole, 1¾ x 2¾ in some scrap plywood or other. Dunno why some get the idea templates are complicated. :smile:


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Complicated, perhaps not, but if I'm going to cut a rectangular hole why not do it on the board where I want the rectangular hole? 

I do love using my router and before replying pondered for several minutes whether I could come up with another use for the template to justify making it. But the short bit would drive me crazy.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

railaw said:


> Complicated, perhaps not, but if I'm going to cut a rectangular hole why not do it on the board where I want the rectangular hole?
> 
> I do love using my router and before replying pondered for several minutes whether I could come up with another use for the template to justify making it. But the short bit would drive me crazy.


Short bit is an issue. As far as justifying templates, I don't bother. I have a bucket of scrap 1/4" MDF I use and reuse those. :smile:


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

OK that will work. I would leave the 2x3 running edgeways and use the plunge router to make the hole. If you have a round over bit you could radius the edges of the 2x3 so it would just slip right into the hole.


----------



## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I would just use all 2x4's, and use 2, 3/8" x 5"(or 6") lag bolts, up into the upright 2x4's. Simple, fast, and plenty strong.
Or if you don't trust the lags, use 3/8" bolts and bolt it, with cross holes in the uprights for nuts and washers. I'd use 1/2" bolts and just use 1 per joint.

Not sure of the headroom, but with mortises, the uprights will hang down lower.


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm using the various size wood because that's what I have On hand. I'd be nervous about the lag bc if it failed it could literally kill someone..... Maybe after all ill make a shelf under my bench. I just got the willies thinking about my kids standing under this. I'll have to reasses when I get home.


----------



## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

If your goal is to avoid a PITA, you will also need a ladder to fetch your 60lbs grinder when you want to use it.... Its a different kind of PITA but still a PITA. How about making a swing-down shelf, where the ends of the verticals rotate with whatever they are attached to? Might need a compound pulley to operate the thing easily.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

This isn't exactly hiding my tools but condenses the space required considerably. The bench grinder is no where near 60# but the OSS is. Also gave me room for the Worksharp and the Drill Dr stores in the drawer below. Quick flip of the top brings the OSS up and puts the grinder and WS out of the way. I use them a lot more since they are out from under benches.:smile:


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

I am tall so the overhead will be an easy reach for me. and heck, EVERYTHING in my space is a pita. Hopefully I'll only be here for a year or so more. 

That Is one cool setup! Did you build it? 

I was contemplating some kind of flip or swing up at the end Of my bench ( which is a ply and 2 x 4 affair) but decided that was both too complicated and would get in the way. Very efficient use of space though.


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Yeah, I got ahold of some plans from FWW. Looked good until they called for a double thickness of furniture grade plywood for the sides and top$$$$. So I just went for an open frame with construction lumber but kept the plans to see how the flip mechanism worked. They had 1/2" steel rod going through the side rails and about 4 or 5" into the top so I went with 1/2" black pipe all the way through. Doesn't look much like the plan but works:smile:. I built the drawer to slide all the way through because the front and back change when you flip the top.:blink:


----------



## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

*close out*

To close out an old thread, I finally gave in and admitted storing grinder in the joists was a stupid idea. I ended up building the base for my drill press wide enough to fit the tray that it's mounted on.


----------

