# Which pipe for dust collection?



## CPNMike (Jan 8, 2010)

Hi guys & gals. I've been a member here for several months but this is my first post. I have a Delta 50-760 DC and I'm getting ready to setup a dust collection system in my 20'x20' garage/shop. I know this topic has been discussed thousands of times and I have searched and read many articles and threads about it but can't seem to find the answer to this one question. Would there be a problem with using the 4" polyethylene triple wall solid drainage pipe at Home Depot, instead of PVC or metal for the short (< 15') horizontal runs? It's the same size as the ribbed flex hose and has a smooth inside wall.

Thanks in advance and I love the forum!


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm not an expert but I don't see any problem with that.


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## H. A. S. (Sep 23, 2010)

Air moving through plastic creates static electricity. Been shocked several times while vacuuming out the jointer and bandsaw, especially during the cold, low humidity days.

If I ever get around to building a dust collector...(I highly doubt that),:laughing:will probably run a grounding wire if using plastic pipe.


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

Yes it can create static. But all the research concludes that it is not dangerous in a home shop. Uncomfortable maybe, but not dangerous. A ground wire will alleviate the problem, if it is bothersome. But the plastic pipe will work.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I think you should be ok with that pipe. My only concern would be the connections. If it is the same inside diameter as the 4" hose for dust collectors then you are good to go. 

The grounding wire is not exactly effective from what some of the post on here showed. It does have to run completely through the length of pipe. I personally don't have it but we have high humidity most of the year. It's dry out there now and I had it running with no problems as usual. Good luck what ever you do. and this is and has been a hot topic for debate.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Static shock*

I only use the ribbed black flex hose to my machines, no metal duct, no plastic pipe, and I switch the connection with a quick change fitting made from a 4" PVC coupler and some dust collector fittings that flare out at the ends and fit pretty well in the coupler. See the first photo for the wire and the coupler. The second photo shows that I mark the last time I cleaned the filter and barrel with a tape with the date for reference.
Before I ran a wire from the motor to the filter cannister/ separator on the Jet Dc 1100 I would get a* rip* of a static shock. After the wire, no shocks! I would think that the wire within the flex pipe could be used as a grounding connector if that was necessary between each machine. My flex pipe runs are under 10 feet so I don't think efficiency is too bad due to the ribs inside, but I could be wrong. I keep moving my machines around so I didn't want a built in overhead collector...yet.
The third photo show an experiment using a single stage collector right on top of the planer ...seems to work OK with a very short flex pipe run!

Finally, I don't know what you mean by "4" polyethylene triple wall solid drainage pipe" Triple wall???


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## Jim Tank (Apr 28, 2009)

When I had central system with longer runs, I preferred metal pipe as it was easy to change configuration as machines were moved or added. It was also easy to clean out when unintended thin cutoff strips went down thru table saw insert, but couldn't make it all the way to the collector. The biggest drawback was sawdust settled atop the horizonal runs, so when the larger overhead door was opened on a windy day, we got a dust bath if we hadn't dusted the pipes for a while. When I built a larger shop and added a CNC router, and a few other major dust makers, I decided not to go central, but individual collectors that service a small cluster or a larger machine, like the drum sander. Six years later, I am happy with my decision. The whole shop is not shut down because the central collectors filter is full, or not working. I have no overhead pipes, explosion concerns, or 10 hp motors just for dust control on a small machine. My opinion for now is when it comes to dust collectors, small is beautiful, as long as it can do the job.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Mike,
You have a shop the same size as mine. Also, you won't be running two machines at the same time.

Save your money, save your time. Put a trash can separator in line with your DC and then a single flex line. It takes less than a minute for me to connect the suck-ie line to the tool that I'm using. 

My table saw has a dust hose that runs to the trash can. My planer, jointer and router are normally used outside the shop so there is a loose dust hose that lies near the can and connected in place of the TS dust hose. My band saw is on the other side of the shop and has a hose that can stretch across the shop to the DC. 

Several years ago, I was trying to figure out how to connect all my devices to a DC. A rather wise Rockler employee asked "How many machines are you going to run at one time?" He actually encouraged to move the hose rather than sell me $300 worth of parts.

BTW - Rockler has a collapsible 4" DC hose. (21 feet) This hose is probably better than sliced bread!

BTW2 - 4" S&D pipe is not a good fit to 4" DC fittings.


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## CPNMike (Jan 8, 2010)

Wow, thanks for the replies guys. There's a lot of great info and insight here. I guess I'll just think about it a bit more before I jump into anything. It's nice to know though that the HD drainage pipe could be an option. 

I realize looking at my description of the pipe, it's not very clear. 
For those who want to know what I was talking about, here it is...

http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-P...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## AZ Termite (Dec 20, 2008)

If you decide to pipe the whole thing, you will be better off with the S&D pipe. The pipe you linked is $6.84 a foot. I just paid $8 for a ten foot section. I have just under 60' of S&D pipe in my dust collection system. The ABS dust collection fittings fit perfectly inside the S&D pipe. Just my .02$.


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## CPNMike (Jan 8, 2010)

AZ Termite said:


> If you decide to pipe the whole thing, you will be better off with the S&D pipe. The pipe you linked is $6.84 a foot. I just paid $8 for a ten foot section. I have just under 60' of S&D pipe in my dust collection system. The ABS dust collection fittings fit perfectly inside the S&D pipe. Just my .02$.


Thanks AZ Term. I think that's a typo or mistake though. That 10' pipe is under $10 at HD. Of course, if I read it wrong and it really is $7/ft, I wouldn't even consider it.


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## AZ Termite (Dec 20, 2008)

I added some pics to an album in my photos. They are of the dust collection setup I just finished last weekend in my shop. I hooked up almost all my machines to it. The only ones I did not hook up are the ones I don't use very often. Every machine I did hook up I put a blast gate right off the main line so I could isolate the system to get the best performance I could. I haven't used it very much yet, but the little bit I have I am really happy with the results. I used pvc glue to glue all the connections together. If I ever end up with a clog it won't be real difficult to clear the way I have it setup. I have it broken into three main runs that are easily accessed for one end or the other.


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## Lewisotr (Oct 29, 2010)

I will speak to the dangers of a vac system that is not properly grounded. I built my shop and used a combination of PVC pipe and wire wrapped flex hose. I had multiple drops throughout the shop with one dropping down to pick up my 48" Shopbot Buddy. Everything worked fine for several months. One Sunday morning I started a large 3D piece carving that would take 6 plus hours to complete, turned out the lights and headed off to church. 
When I returned a couple of hours later, I flipped on the lights and and it was like I had walked into a dark cave. After only a few minutes of cutting, it appears that a spark somewhere in the system ignited the vac duct and completely burned the flex hose and some of the PVC, thus leaving the entire inside of the 24' x 50' shop black. The flames leapt up a charred the ceiling but stopped before spreading. It also burned some of the wiring off of the Shopbot, but was easily replaced. I had to completely empty the contents of the shop and clean and repaint. But I feel very lucky that I still had my shop. 
When replacing the vac system I now have only the wire wrapped hose regardless of cost and it is grounded.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*wire wrapped flex hose?*

All the flex hose I have seen or used has an internal wire to prevent collapse. It is not wrapped externally. Is this what you mean and do you ground each termination of flex hose in series for a continuous ground?
The subject of "static" shock has been beat to death here several times and the majority conclusion is that PVC is OK for small shops with lower volumes of dust collection. There is a thread that you may find interesting: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/static-hazard-dust-collection-19591/
You said a "spark" ignited the fire, static spark or contact with metal?...maybe we'll never know that answer. I know you don't want to sit around for hours while the Shop Bot does it's thing, but you probably had a 1 in a million mishap, sorry about your shop and it could have been much worse! :thumbsup:bill


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## Lewisotr (Oct 29, 2010)

I used polyurethane flex tubing that is wire reinforced. My research showed that neither polyurethane or polypropylene allows for the static electrons to gather and lay on the surface of the pipe the way PVC does. 
When saying a spark ignited the fire, I used that term loosely. Something certainly caused it. I looked close to see that the tooling had not come in contact with metal in the machine itself or an embedded piece of steel in the wood. The bit was completely without damage. 
I did on another occasion allow the bit to contact a screw while turning at 16000 RPM and within seconds a small localized fire ignited but didn't enter the vac system. Another time I did my setup wrong and let the bit bottom out, letting the collett nut bottom out on the wood causing heat from friction to build up very rapidly. 
Of course the manufacture stresses the importance of never leaving the machine unattended, but with anything automated, it hard not to leave it along and let it do it's thing. However after having the machine for a couple of years I still find myself at times just standing and watching it work, mesmerized for what seems like hours.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

#1 on our list of upgrades to make to the shop (in the wake of all our christmas gift making) is a more reliable and configurable dust collection system. I think what I want to do is very similar to what you did, AZ Termite. What is "S & D" pipe? Sewer and Drain? Is that a standard type of pipe, so I just go get 4" S&D and it should work with the small amout of blast gates I have on hand? (I'll go down to the store and dry fit them first of course). I'm just trying to figure out what type of pipe to get.

I assume you don't have a ground wire running through your pipe? Being in AZ, I'm sure you are the epitome of dry conditions...have you had any static issues? Im not worried about explosion so much as just the nasty shock.


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## AZ Termite (Dec 20, 2008)

Yes it is sewer and drain pipe. I took the dust collector fittings with me to the hardware store. I wanted to make sure the fit was perfect and it is. The ABS fittings fit perfect inside the pipe. It is thinner walled pipe that sch. 40, so you have to make sure you get the right stuff. You can use the S&D Y fittings as well, I found them to be a little cheaper than the ABS y fittings for dust collection. All you have to do is stub a little piece up to glue the ABS into. I do not have my system grounded and I have never had a problem with it, and I used it a lot trying to get X-mas presents finished. I have filled the secondary can twice with no problem.


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## Ledhead (Aug 3, 2009)

<- is following thread, planning on adding dust collection as I rebuild shop (because of water pipe freeze / burst). 
I'm getting the HF 2 hp dc unit tomorrow. The PVC pipe I've looked at online at the big box stores isn't too much cheaper than spiral duct designed for dc work. 
Question: is it worth the extra cost to go with 6" lines vs 4" in a small home shop (20 x 30)? What about 6" main line with 4" takeoffs to machines? 
Beware, I'll probably have more questions as I go.


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## AZ Termite (Dec 20, 2008)

All my runs are 4" so I can't really answer that one. The sewer and drain pipe is quite a bit less expensive than regular sch. 40 pipe that you would use for water or whatever else. I only paid $8 for a ten foot section of 4" pipe, so if you decide to go with 6" you might see if you can find 6" sewer and drain. I can say after using my dust collector for the last couple of months, I don't know why I waited as long as I did to get it. There is so much less dust floating around the shop and a lot less mess to clean.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

While we're on the subject of pipe....is there a good standard type of flexible hose that will work with DC fittings, like the S/D pipe does? I got several pieces of plastic corrugated hose with my DC and fittings, but the stuff is really stiff and hates bending very far. Something more flexible would really be handy, but I was hoping it wasn't an "order from a woodworking store only" type of stuff.


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## Ledhead (Aug 3, 2009)

I have found some 6" sewer / drain pipe both at lowes and home depot. They are both "foam core" - I'm assuming that is fine. These are both plain end pipes. Is this what I want? 
I guess what I need to do is get the DC unit, take it's main fitting to the big box and make sure it fits. Lowes is about 2x the price of home depot on the 6" x 10'. HD = $18.20, Lowes = $37.37.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Don't discount a local plumbing store too if you have those....I've found the local store to be competitive if not cheaper than lowes...and they offer free delivery too, which is *very* handy when dealing with 20' pipe sections!


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## AZ Termite (Dec 20, 2008)

beelzerob, on your flex question, when I ordered my stuff from Woodcraft some of the 4" flex they sent was a light grey color. It is a lot more flexible than the black flex is. I am not sure exactly what it is but I tried to order more of it and they sent the black. I agree on the pipe the plumbing supply house in town was a little cheaper than Ace Hardware or the local lumber yard. The supply house is a mom and pop shop so walking in with cash helped.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Well, pipe acquired and the works begins. One of the first issues is...should 90 bends be avoided in runs? I bought a bunch of 45 deg fittings (though not as many as I need it turns out). I have the room to do 2 X 45's in MOST places, but not all. Is 1 90 deg turn enough to be an issue? If so, I'm already screwed because I built one of those thien garbage can cyclone things, and THAT has a 90 deg turn in it.

Should they just be avoided where possible, but not at all cost? Or does it even matter?


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## gregL (Feb 1, 2009)

I have been using schedule 20 drain pipe in addition to the metal pipe and have no problems. I am getting ready to run about 30 ft of pvc to a downdraft table and recently discovered some great fittings that fit perfectly to connect pvc to standard dust fittings. I bought them at Rockler http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=20382&filter=36337&pn=36337
and paid $7.99 for them. I just ordered 4 more cause they have free shipping right now


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

So far I've found that the black dust collector fittings I have first *just* inside the 4" S/D pipe, as AZTermite mentioned before. However, some of the fittings are kinda loose. Some of them I cement, but I'm also experimenting with just putting a couple layers of electrical tape around the male fitting to tighten it up. So far it seems like it makes it tight enough to work. No idea if I'll be losing air through that or not, or enough to matter anyway.


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## AZ Termite (Dec 20, 2008)

I glued all my connections together. I agree that some do not fit together real well. The ones that don't are the ones that have tapered ends. I made sure to put a lot of glue on those fittings to make sure it made a good seal.


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