# Tablesaw for beginner



## brose1313 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hello Everyone,

I am fairly new to woodworking and have been searching for a much needed tablesaw. I have been looking through many of the threads on this site and many people say to stay away from the tabletop TS and look for more of a hybrid TS. Is there a reason why the smaller TS would not be the best purchase? I don't want to buy a saw then regret it later so I was hoping to get some feedback from everyone.

Thanks


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

brose1313 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am fairly new to woodworking and have been searching for a much needed tablesaw. I have been looking through many of the threads on this site and many people say to stay away from the tabletop TS and look for more of a hybrid TS. Is there a reason why the smaller TS would not be the best purchase? I don't want to buy a saw then regret it later so I was hoping to get some feedback from everyone.
> 
> Thanks


First Welcome
What do you plan on doing with saw. Are you going to be doing it for Hobby, business. Let us know a little more before we give you an answer. Take your time with Research and look at safety and use if saw as well

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## brose1313 (Jan 3, 2012)

MastersHand said:


> First Welcome
> What do you plan on doing with saw. Are you going to be doing it for Hobby, business. Let us know a little more before we give you an answer. Take your time with Research and look at safety and use if saw as well
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


The saw will be used for hobby work and DIY projects around the house. I have been looking at a few different options. I was looking at the 

PORTER-CABLE 15-Amp 10" Table Saw
Item #: 89913 | Model #: PCB220TS 

RIDGID 10 in. 15 Amp Compact Table Saw
Model # R45161 Internet # 202871796 Store SKU # 535690

I also was looking at the 

RIDGID R4512 10 in. 13 Amp Professional Table Saw
Model # R4512 Internet # 202500206 Store SKU # 155225

but I'm not sure if would want to spend the $549.

I also have been searching around craigslist but haven't found everything that looked to great. I live in the Northern Kentucky area with the area code of 41076. Looking forward to everyones responses. 
Thanks


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

The first 2 you listed are bench top saws. I would stay away from those. I started with a benchtop saw and was so frusterated with its performance that I actually dreaded any project. Woodworking is suppose to be an enjoyable hobby but when you are fighting tools its more of a chore.

The R4512 is suppose to be a really good saw. It gets very positive reviews and there are several members here that own it and love it. Its night and day difference to the others you posted. Put a good thin kerf combo blade on it. Thats where I would start. If you decide woodworking isnt for you, the 4512 is gonna have a better resale value than those portables.

FWIW, many members have been successful using a Harbor Freight 20% coupon at HD for the purchase of this saw.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

I would not get a table top saw. I never used one but I would imagine they vibrate like hell and arent very strong. There smaller saws with smaller motors and smaller blades. Spend the extra money and get a full size saw.


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## brose1313 (Jan 3, 2012)

BassBlaster said:


> The first 2 you listed are bench top saws. I would stay away from those. I started with a benchtop saw and was so frusterated with its performance that I actually dreaded any project. Woodworking is suppose to be an enjoyable hobby but when you are fighting tools its more of a chore.
> 
> The R4512 is suppose to be a really good saw. It gets very positive reviews and there are several members here that own it and love it. Its night and day difference to the others you posted. Put a good thin kerf combo blade on it. Thats where I would start. If you decide woodworking isnt for you, the 4512 is gonna have a better resale value than those portables.
> 
> FWIW, many members have been successful using a Harbor Freight 20% coupon at HD for the purchase of this saw.


How does that coupon work? Why would HD honor it? Thanks


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

brose1313 said:


> The saw will be used for hobby work and DIY projects around the house. I have been looking at a few different options. I was looking at the
> 
> PORTER-CABLE 15-Amp 10" Table Saw
> Item #: 89913 | Model #: PCB220TS
> ...


I have the Rigid Saw in all my install trucks it is hands down the best small contractor saw you can buy.the geared fence. The extension table the fold up base with wheels a must accessory. Soft start GREAT SAW

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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

brose1313 said:


> How does that coupon work? Why would HD honor it? Thanks


It gives you 20% off the purchase of one item. I dont know why they honor it or why only some of them will accept it. I assume because many places will accept competitor coupons. Personally, I dont view HF as a competitor with HD but many have been successful using it. Not all of them will take it but its seems like more have had success than not. One guy even called several HD in his town to find one that would accept it. He had to drive across town but he saved himself a hundred bucks on his purchase.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

brose1313 said:


> How does that coupon work? Why would HD honor it? Thanks


HomeDepots policy is they will match any competitor pricing on same item. If they give you any problem go right for manager

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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

The saw you speak of is not a tabletop saw. Don't. Be discouraged on Rigid as extension opens wide and is capable if ripping a 4x8 sheet . The wheel base is very strong and this is an Excellent saw which I use on installs Everyday

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## avewads (Jan 20, 2012)

MastersHand said:


> I have the Rigid Saw in all my install trucks it is hands down the best small contractor saw you can buy.the geared fence. The extension table the fold up base with wheels a must accessory. Soft start GREAT SAW
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


I am planning on purchasing the 4512 in a few weeks and I see MasterHands mentioned a 'geared fence' and 'extension table'. Are those additional accessories or do those come with the table saw out of the box? Sorry if this is a dumb question but being new, I just want to know.

Thanks - Bob


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## chirpfarm (Jan 30, 2012)

MastersHand said:


> HomeDepots policy is they will match any competitor pricing on same item. If they give you any problem go right for manager
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


However, it is up to individual store managers to determine if HF is a local competitor. I don't have a HF store near any of my home depots, so I was out of luck. However, they did match the 11% rebate that menards is running now.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

avewads said:


> I am planning on purchasing the 4512 in a few weeks and I see MasterHands mentioned a 'geared fence' and 'extension table'. Are those additional accessories or do those come with the table saw out of the box? Sorry if this is a dumb question but being new, I just want to know.
> 
> Thanks - Bob


Comes with it the only accessory is the base with wheels

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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Trust me I am an Ex Home Depot Manager you can read why I left in the Lowes vs Home Depot Thread. As far as what you said not true you took his word. You climb the ladder until you get the answer you want . There policy states ANY not Local competitors. If I was you I would call Corporate

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## brose1313 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can anyone direct me to the link for Harbor Freight Tools where they are selling the table saw? I went to their website and I could not find the TS. Did they possibly take it off their site?

Thanks


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## chirpfarm (Jan 30, 2012)

MastersHand said:


> Trust me I am an Ex Home Depot Manager you can read why I left in the Lowes vs Home Depot Thread. As far as what you said not true you took his word. You climb the ladder until you get the answer you want . There policy states ANY not Local competitors. If I was you I would call Corporate
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


I did call corporate. I think it might have even been you that posted the "ben hill" number? I talked with the managers at 3 different stores plus corporate and corporate is the one that told me it was up to the managers discretion. Maybe theres been a policy change?

Edit: Sorry for the hijack, here's the discussion I had earlier... http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/home-depot-vrs-harbor-freight-20-coupon-35639/


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

brose1313 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> ....Is there a reason why the smaller TS would not be the best purchase? I don't want to buy a saw then regret it later so I was hoping to get some feedback from everyone.
> 
> Thanks


Unless you're really strapped for space or need to move the saw to different jobsites, there are no advantages going with a smaller saw for woodworking. There's a pretty significant difference in operating space (especially in front of the blade), build quality, materials of construction (metal vs plastic), mass and stability, accessories and upgrades that can be added, reliability, cost and ease of repairs, noise, smoothness of operation, torque, resale, pleasure of use, etc.....all in favor of a full size cast iron (or granite) stationary saw with a belt drive induction motor. 

Of those you mentioned, I'd lean toward the R4512. Some folks have had luck getting HD to accept a 20% Harbor Freight coupon. The Craftsman 21833 is nearly identical to the R4512 and is made by Dayton in the same plant. The PCB270TS has a plastic elevation gear that really should be made of metal....that's show stopper for me, plus the fence isn't very impressive. 

If those saws are more than you want to spend, look at a good used full size contractor saw.....$300-$400 should buy a very nice used contractor saw. 

Alignment and blade selection are the keys to good performance from any of then. 

The pic below shows a typical bench top saw in use that's only slightly larger than just the wing portion of a full size saw...note the lack of space to work in front of the blade:









Here's a full size saw that's roughly 27" deep and 40" wide including the wings:









Harbor Freight Link:
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-professional-table-saw-46813.html


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## Goldstar225 (Feb 17, 2012)

I have a craftsman benchtop that I've used for the past 15 years. As long as I'm just doing small cuts, it's fine. The fence works as long as I set up my rips using a square to set the distance from the blade. Despite claiming a 12 inch cutting width, anything beyond 10" doesn't really work. With a benchtop as the above photos show you don't have much working room in front of the blade. 

I'm comparison shopping now for a larger saw with the Ridgid 4512 being in the front of the pack right now. If you have the funds and the space, avoid the benchtop.


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## Cliff (Feb 5, 2012)

brose1313 said:


> Hello Everyone,Is there a reason why the smaller TS would not be the best purchase?



Yah. They are small not because of any effort at making high quality miniature tools but because they are price pointed (is that a legitimate verb?) and made for people who won't spend enough to get a serious machine. 

If you want a small saw there are high quality small tools out there but they are not at the borg.




> I don't want to buy a saw then regret it later


Then go big or put it on hold and save your pennies.

Seriously. The odds of a small or low priced machine being a hazard and also not a satisfying tool are pretty much even.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

For a beginner, spend a little money. The best advice to give would be to locate some friends with table saws and go cut on them a bit. If not start a thread to see if anybody is around you to go watch. Venture out of a big box store and into a Woodcraft or Rockler and get your hands on some other brands. 

I started with a Skill table top HD special my wife got me and I did some very nice cabinetry work with it. It wasn't long though that I wanted a cabinet saw as I had used them as a youth and knew the difference. Bought a used Jet 3hp with a slider for $1000 on craigslist. Never looked back, the difference was astounding. Since I have upgraded to a SawStop 3hp professional and still have not looked back. It came minus the slider and I do in fact miss that without question. 

Either way spend a bit more than you think you ought to spend, 
I don't think I have ever heard somebody say they wish they hadn't bought a cabinet saw. 

Also watch you local and surrounding Craigslist. I drove two hours for that Jet but it was well worth the trip.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

Nate1778 said:


> For a beginner, spend a little money...Also watch you local and surrounding Craigslist. I drove two hours for that Jet but it was well worth the trip.


+1 to that advice. The beauty of an older saw (or lots of used CL merchandise) is that you can probably unload it for around the same money that you put into it down the road if it isn't for you. With something like a table saw, you may even turn a profit if you do some cleaning and refurbishing. If you buy a new saw, you'll take a significant hit if you decide to unload it and upgrade.


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## Murphy's Law (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi brose - I purchased a very nice Delta 34-444 with an almost new Delta T-2 fence, three Freud 10" blades, a 7" dado set, and several of those high-tech pushers for $190 in Florence, KY (your neighbors) last November. A widow was selling her diseased husband's stuff. It was a present to my son for Christmas - it works perfect and he absolutely loves it. It's almost exactly like mine. So if you're patient you can find some good deals on Craig's List.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

Dang I missed the Ky part, your more than welcome to come on down 71 and hang in the shop if you want. I bought a Jet band saw up in Covington for $200 a few years back. The DHL/UPS thing left some very cheap hobby stuff on the market. 


http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/search/tls?query=table+saw&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

http://louisville.craigslist.org/search/tls?query=table+saw&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

http://lexington.craigslist.org/search/tls?query=table+saw&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

http://dayton.craigslist.org/search/tls?query=table+saw&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=


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## brose1313 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all of the help. Went to HD today and bought the Ridgid r4512 TS using the HF coupon. The final price was $399. Great price for a great saw!


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

brose1313 said:


> Thanks everyone for all of the help. Went to HD today and bought the Ridgid r4512 TS using the HF coupon. The final price was $399. Great price for a great saw!


Congrats. You got a real nice deal. Hope you put some of the savings towards a good blade. Blade selection and setup pretty much determine the end performance of your saw...you both deserve better than the stock blade. Have fun and be safe.


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## brose1313 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was looking at the 

Freud D1050X Diablo 10-Inch 50-tooth ATB Combination Saw Blade with 5/8-Inch Arbor and PermaShield Coating

Would this be a good blade in your opinion? 

Thanks


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## brose1313 (Jan 3, 2012)

knotscott said:


> Congrats. You got a real nice deal. Hope you put some of the savings towards a good blade. Blade selection and setup pretty much determine the end performance of your saw...you both deserve better than the stock blade. Have fun and be safe.


I was looking at the 

Freud D1050X Diablo 10-Inch 50-tooth ATB Combination Saw Blade with 5/8-Inch Arbor and PermaShield Coating


Would this be a sufficient blade in your opinion?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

brose1313 said:


> I was looking at the
> 
> Freud D1050X Diablo 10-Inch 50-tooth ATB Combination Saw Blade with 5/8-Inch Arbor and PermaShield Coating
> 
> ...


Yep....that's a good general purpose thin kerf blade IMO :thumbsup:. So are the D1040X, CMT P10050, DeWalt Precision Trim DW7140PT and DW7150PT in that same general class and price range. If you think you'll be doing a lot of thick ripping, a 24T TK ripping blade like the D1024X or DW7124PT will be easier on your motor. If you plan to get into any critical ply or sheet good cuts, or need ultra fine crosscuts, you could grab a good 60T or 80T blade. Some folks skip the 40T or 50T general purpose blades all together and simply use the dedicated rip and crosscut blades. Your choice.


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