# Craftsman Radial Arm Saw 113.23111



## Prof_Turby (Oct 7, 2013)

I have read lots of info on the infamous Craftsman Radial Arm Saw and their recall...
With that said, I picked up a really nice unit this week for $60 that had a new table and looked brand new...
Included a dado head, planer head, etc...
I don't have any photos of the unit but spent the weekend reading the owners manual...
The manual date of publication is 1977...
I plan on crosscutting and making a 45 miter form for the unit...
The unit needs nothing...
Once I get my camera I will post some pictures...
The recall blade guard assembly is not available for this unit...
I knew this before purchasing but thought the price was fair...
I think that junking a perfectly good saw for $100 is insane...
A question for you gurus...
Have any of you come up with a home made guard for a unit like this that did not follow under the recall?


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

that's one thing i've been trying to fabricate for some time. sears did offer a metal, and later a plastic, lower blade guard attachment as an option, but i've not found one for sale yet at a reasonable price. check out vintage machinery or OWWM.com for pre-owned parts.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The stock blade guard has 2 major parts:*

There is the metal cover with a dust port, and then the lower plastic blade cover that retracts as you slide it over the workpiece.
I made my own from Lexan and while it only covers the left side which is exposed, it does offer some protection. I found it a great material to work with since it's clear, strong and machines well.
  


Here's the factory guard on a 12" RAS where I got the basic idea:


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## Prof_Turby (Oct 7, 2013)

Thank you for the pertinent information...
Great job on the guard...
Looks like I have some fabrication to do...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I made a Masonite mockup first*

I used 1/8" hardboard/Masonite to work out the bugs and make sure it would retract:


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## Timothy Knight (May 11, 2013)

Be very careful with that saw, I found it to really dangerous. It tends to grab your wood when cutting it and running across the board !


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You've got the wrong blade then*



Tim Knight said:


> Be very careful with that saw, I found it to really dangerous. It tends to grab your wood when cutting it and running across the board !


If it "grabs" then the blade probably is from a table saw and has a positive hook angle. That's not correct and you should use a negative or zero hook blade designed for miter saws and RASs. You should pull the saw toward you across the work and control the feed rate with a firm grip on the handle. 

Here's what I use:
Freud LU91R010 10-Inch 60 Tooth ATB Thin Kerf Miter Saw Blade with 5/8-Inch Arbor and PermaShield Coating - Amazon.com


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## Prof_Turby (Oct 7, 2013)

I ordered this blade and laser for the saw couple days ago...
The blade on it works well but wanted to start out with a new one...
The darn blade and laser cost more than the saw...
Go figure...

Oshlun SBW-100060N 10-Inch 60 Tooth Negative Hook Finishing ATB Saw Blade with 5/8-Inch Arbor for Sliding Miter and Radial Arm Saws - Amazon.com


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

return the laser. set the saw up as well as you can paying careful attention to the various alignments that are necessary to attend to. then make one kerf cut in the table and fence. line all cuts up with those. much cheaper and more accurate. BTW, i never move my c-man RAS from 90°. from my experience, it doesn't like to move, or be moved, around.


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## Prof_Turby (Oct 7, 2013)

Thanks for the help Toolguy1000...
I really appreciate it...
The adjustments according to the manual do not seem to difficult...
Just need to take my time and get it right...


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Prof_Turby said:


> .........Just need to take my time and get it right...


THAT was the hardest part of the process for me. many more adjustments than on a TS.


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## ruliving (Nov 4, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> If it "grabs" then the blade probably is from a table saw and has a positive hook angle. That's not correct and you should use a negative or zero hook blade designed for miter saws and RASs. You should pull the saw toward you across the work and control the feed rate with a firm grip on the handle.


All these years and I'm still learning :yes:

Hoping to bring my radial arm into the shop this weekend.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

I use the exact same Freud blade on my RAS that Woodnthings recommended. Great blade for a RAS!

Bill


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## Prof_Turby (Oct 7, 2013)

Just as a follow-up...
I adjusted the play out of the carriage today...
Followed the directions from the owners manual...
After adjusting the back set screw and then side screws there is absolutely zero play in the saw at zero degree...
And the blade can still be raised and lowered...
All I need to do now is square the saw up to the table...
With my framing square it looks to be out approximately 1/16" over the complete travel from fence to end of travel...
This is around 9" from back to front...
This saw appears to have had very little usage...
I may have a keeper...
I'll post some pics when I get a chance...


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I've had a number of the CM saws. Replaced my last one with a Red Star, but, that's another story.

As stated be aware of the bladwe wanting to pull itself towards you, and sometimes stalling the bade. A neg hook blade, helps here.

I wouldn't be too worried about using it for miter cuts. Just use a square to return to 90, and make a few tests cuts, and ck. with square.

Try not to bump into the locked arm. I think this is what happened to my saw, when one day, it wouldn't lock at 90. Pia job removing the arm to repair.

A great addition to the saw, is a stop collar to set cut depth.
When cutting deep dados, you will want to cut them in steps. Set the collar to final depth. Raise blade, and make first cut. Lower a few turns, and make a second cut.
Repeat until collar stops blade at final depth, and make final pass.
I needed to cut a bunch of deep dados in 2, 2x4's for a door drying rack.
With the stop collar, the job went real fast.
A hose clamp or split wooden collar would do the job.

Good luck with the saw. The cool thing about your saw, is, if you find a better one, you can always get $100 for it.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tim Knight said:


> Be very careful with that saw, I found it to really dangerous. It tends to grab your wood when cutting it and running across the board !


The saw cannot climb over the board and come at you. The motor/saw assembly is a fixed distance between the table and the arm, and does not move up and over a board when cutting. If it does that more than one attachment point is loose or not connected, and in that case the saw should not be used anyway. A dull blade, or pulling too fast may cause some resistance which may put an upward pressure on the motor, but in no way will it climb over a board. It may just feel like it.








 







.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The factory recall guard is a nice fix. You might watch CL or eBay for a saw or parts from a saw that has one. You might be able to configure it to fit your saw.


















.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> The factory recall guard is a nice fix. You might watch CL or eBay for a saw or parts from a saw that has one. You might be able to configure it to fit your saw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


tried twice, failed both times. sears materially altered the motor carriage and motor configuration somewhere in the 70s so the earlier versions aren't compatible with the newer, recall supplied, blade guard. really a shame as the supplied blade guard is a really nice unit.


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## Prof_Turby (Oct 7, 2013)

Pirate said:


> I've had a number of the CM saws. Replaced my last one with a Red Star, but, that's another story.
> 
> As stated be aware of the bladwe wanting to pull itself towards you, and sometimes stalling the bade. A neg hook blade, helps here.
> 
> ...


That was my thinking also...
I worked in the furniture industry and taught furniture manufacturing and design at the community college level for over 25 years...
We had at the time a 20K sq. ft. training facility that was a set up like a furniture manufacturing facility...
My radial arm saw is similar to our cut off saw but it was automatic and required the operator to place both hands off the in feed table to activate two foot pedals that were relocated from the floor for operator safety...
In the years of training I did we never had a serious accident...
Training is the key and operator attention...


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## GoNavy429 (Oct 7, 2013)

I use to own an old Ryobi RAS the RA200 inherited from my dad that had a similar recall. I sold it not to long ago, not because of the recall but I needed the space and updating to a compound slider freed up space and replaced two saws, the ras and my chop. Anyways when I first seen the recall I did some research and in the ryobi case, there were five, let me say that again FIVE reported incidents prompting the recall, they sold 145 thousand saws...lol...I stopped worrying about the assembly falling off after that...they also were offering $100 to turn in a key part making the saw un-operable. Personally I think this was just a way to get folks to buy another saw or avoid any future lawsuits by saying hey were offered a buy back. I told the guy I sold it to about the recall, and sold it for $100 so if the guy ever wanted to, he could get his money back from Ryobi. Listen dad used the saw for 20 years and I had for 6 years, the recall didn't come out until a year after I got it. If it hadn't fell apart yet, probably won't happen. I suspect your saw to be the same deal, do some research, probably not a big deal. 

Copy of my recall http://www.cpsc.gov/en/recalls/2006/ryobi-radial-arm-saws-recalled-for-blade-detachment-hazard/


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## stillhave10 (Jul 15, 2014)

*just what are those guards protecting from what?*

I know it's a dumb question but I am new to all this.... I do not yet have a RAS but I'm trying. 

It seems like the danger of a RAS is running it out/over your fingers - or if you have the wrong blade (positive angle on the teeth) it might get away from you and if your finger was in the path - too bad, so sad.

And that shield is brilliantly designed to ride on top of whatever is being cut and easily lift out of the way - regardless of whether it is wood or flesh.

As such, those shields seem to protect only from the 'pilot' reaching in to the blade sideways and 'finding' the teeth of the blade. That isn't going to be the typical 'failure mode' of the operator/pilot, is it?

What am I not getting here? What do the guards in the tread above do for me? (I do not mean to refute or challenge the wisdom of having them but better want to understand the dangers and prevention thereof - believe me, I am scared to death of these things.)

However, FWIW, I don't think nary a one of the 25 or so RASes I have looked at this last month has had any shield at all. I have seen a couple of those rod-thingeys sticking down that are some sort of safety device.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

stillhave10fingers said:


> I know it's a dumb question but I am new to all this.... I do not yet have a RAS but I'm trying.
> 
> It seems like the danger of a RAS is running it out/over your fingers - or if you have the wrong blade (positive angle on the teeth) it might get away from you and if your finger was in the path - too bad, so sad.
> 
> ...


I've had a few different ras's for 12 years. Non of them had/has the lower guards. Using the saw is a bit intimidating, with the exposed blade. I guess the guard prevents you from sticking your hand into the blade.
One of these days I will make one for mine. Clear plexi or Lexan for sure, so I can see the blade.
Even with a negative hook blade, the saw's tend to self feed. When you pull the carriage toward you, you need to control the speed you pull it.
I think this would be less important with a 5 hp ras.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I agree, except....*



Pirate said:


> I've had a few different ras's for 12 years. Non of them had/has the lower guards. Using the saw is a bit intimidating, with the exposed blade. I guess the guard prevents you from sticking your hand into the blade.
> One of these days I will make one for mine. Clear plexi or Lexan for sure, so I can see the blade.
> Even with a negative hook blade, the saw's tend to self feed. When you pull the carriage toward you, you need to control the speed you pull it.
> *I think this would be less important with a 5 hp ras*.


It's about the physics...again. The tooth angle is critical, negative being the optimal. The teeth enter or start the cut from the top of the work, tending to lift the work upward and toward the fence. Unlike a table saw where they enter from the bottom, pressing the work down and into the table. 

Most folks used a common table saw blade when RASs first appeared, with a positive tooth angle this caused a lot of "climb" cutting, and what people said "the saw will run back at you". The new blades for miter and RAS have a negative tooth angle which is less aggressive and minimizes that condition.

Whether you use or have a blade guard is your choice, but personally I have one, use it and for a saw that didn't come with one, I made my own out of Lexan. 

The issue with a RAS is the blade is at "full exposure" at all times, unlike a table saw where you can lower the blade to minimize exposure. As a result, cutting short lengths presents a real safety hazard. Other types of cuts like miters and bevels are equally "dangerous" with full blade exposure and short lengths 
of work. 

The "safety recall" blade guard is a beautiful thing and operates on a parallel link system, covering the blade and rising above the work easily. The key to fitting one on your saw is the diameter of the motor housing where the guard slips over and clamps down with a tightening knob. All yoiu need is for the diameter to be the same and in my experience with several RASs they are the same. My 12" RASs accept the safety recall guard from the 10" saw, but I can't use a 12" blade.

If you use a RAS without a blade guard, especially a 5 HP as found in most lumber yards I've visited, you must be extremely cautious. The larger commercial saws these days, come with guards and I wouldn't use one that wasn't so equipped. :no:


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