# Delta unisaw will not start.



## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

I have a 1992 or so Delta Unisaw 3hp 1 phase Delta no is 83-651.

I shut down my wood shop and have been slowly selling off all the large stuff.

The unisaw I was hard pressed to let go but someone just made me an offer that looks so good I thought what the hey.

It was working fine but I let it sit for a few months in a cold and damp place and now will not start.

Hit the electric started and it just hums ......

I have taken the two condensers,( or what ever they are), on the side and cleaned them out, they were pretty clogged with fine dust,.....but still no go?????

I read somewhere that it may be the condenser or the points....?
I was also told that if it is the condenser that it would show signs of leaking........these do not.

So it may be the points????

No sweat if this was my old car with the 283 cu in in it but where are the points in an electric motor.

Thanks in advance.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

You might be calling the capacitors condensers. Just a suggestion to try, if you have a "reset" button, have you tried pressing it?












 







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## troyd1976 (Jul 26, 2011)

have you tried spining the belt/motor by hand to make sure theres not something that fell down inside there or soemthing? also, with it powered on and hum'ing have you tried to give it a little spin to see if it will get to going with a push start?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Yah, wrap a cord around the pulley and rope start it! Just make sure you've wrapped it the right way. You've got a 50 50 chance here.... right and wrong.:laughing:


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## CasinoDuck (Jun 15, 2011)

If you can spin the motor by hand, most likely it would be the capacitor. If you don't have a tester, you can run the capacitor up to your local electrical supply and the will gladly check it for you. Here are some other issues that could cause the problem.

Burnt open wire on the terminal. Open the cover and check the connections.

Bearing is out. pull the shaft back and forth, If there is considerable play, time for a new motor.

You have a 240v motor. It is possible you dropped one of the "legs" of power and, your trying to start with just 120V. This would be a problem from the power supply to the motor. You might need a Volt meter to check this. Or, if you have another 240v machine, plug it into where your table saw goes and see if it starts.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Another item to check would be your magnetic starter (it's likely your saw is equipped with one). It's a spring loaded gizmo with relays. There's a good explanation here, that you might check out.
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Articles/magneticstarters.htm












 







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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Hi guys and thanks for the help....

I have tried most of all that ,....except take the capacitors in to be tested and the spin the belt which sounds kind of dangerous to me.

But what the heck...

When it first happened it was still wired in my old shop where it had been for years so I do not think the power supply is the issue.

I also bypassed the magnetic switch and direct wired it thinking it was the switch and just rigged a 240 volt plug set up..... but that changed nothing.

I did read in another forum, which I wish I'd bookmarked because I cannot find it???? someone had an identical problem with the long shut down in a damp environment.
He found that some connectors had wood pitch formed on them, he used the word POINTS, and would not make the connection until he cleaned them.
He also had been working in Black Cherry as I have been and thought that was a cause.

I am fine with getting in there to look but cannot find a schematic on what to expect in a delta motor anywhere like you can for every other power tool I have ever worked on?????
Lots of places to just replace the sucker at approx. $450. though.:furious:

Also if I discover the need for some parts I cannot find a source for those parts.

Anyone here know of some info. on these delta motors or parts?

Also I live in a small town on the west coast of Vancouver Island so I'm not sure I can even find someone to test these capacitors,...may have to send them out.

Thanks again.
Brad


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Oh yeah one more thing.........if there is a reset button or other type of thing-a-ma-jig on the 3 hp delta.........hope, hope, hope....

Where would it be????


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## dmh (Sep 18, 2010)

I might be wrong (and someone please correct me if I am) but if you had the capacitors out messing with them and they didn’t knock the snot out of ya, I would think you have a bad capacitor (or maybe your just lucky :icon_cheesygrin.

Either way, basically it sounds like the saw worked one day and didn’t the next. With the motor humming it sounds like you have power to it. I think I would throw a capacitor (or two, if there is two) at it.

Be sure to Google “how to discharge a capacitor” before you mess with it. They will get ya!


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

The comment about points, some motors have starting windings that are turned off via a centrifugal switch as the motor comes up to speed. I have an old Delta motor running my B-C drill press, and it has that starting winding. You know they're there when you hear a click as the motor comes to a stop. If those contacts are dirty, or the switch didn't re-close, your motor will hum, but no spin.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

dmh said:


> I might be wrong (and someone please correct me if I am) but if you had the capacitors out messing with them and they didn’t knock the snot out of ya, I would think you have a bad capacitor (or maybe your just lucky :icon_cheesygrin.
> 
> Either way, basically it sounds like the saw worked one day and didn’t the next. With the motor humming it sounds like you have power to it. I think I would throw a capacitor (or two, if there is two) at it.
> 
> Be sure to Google “how to discharge a capacitor” before you mess with it. They will get ya!


+1. I'm inclined to agree that it's a capacitor problem. There may be a "start" capacitor, and a "run" capacitor. If it's either, they aren't expensive and can be matched up at most electrical suppliers that sell motor parts.












 







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## dmh (Sep 18, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> If it's either, they aren't expensive and can be matched up at most electrical suppliers that sell motor parts.


Yep, and another source would be anyone that deals in air conditioning or refrigeration. They should be able to check it and have something that will work as well.:yes:


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks guys.

I am taking the saw to an electric motor repair shop this week so he can look at it and test the capacitors.

I did bypass the power directly to the motor because when I tried to start it again I see that it is only the electric starter that is humming?

Direct to the motor and the motor moves just slightly and hums.

Like it can't quite kick over.........so it is still up in the air whether it is the capacitors or the starter.

I'll let the pro. figure it out since he can do it with a tester and I would just end up replacing parts until i ran out of options.

I'll let you know what the verdict is....and the results.

Thanks again.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

bcbrad said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I am taking the saw to an electric motor repair shop this week so he can look at it and test the capacitors.
> 
> ...


I bet it is the centrifugal switch that's inside the motor. It slide's on the motor shaft and kick's it in the run mode. It has double point's. the inside of the switch plate is a brass piece that slide's on the motor shaft. I bet it is stuck and woin't slide. the minute their is power applyed, the brass piece moves which makes the contact's go to the run winding mode . Check back with the problum thanks


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Yeah from all i have read I figured the same but after seeing that accessing it means I have to take everything out of the shell in order to get at it I have opted in to letting someone who knows what he is doing take on the job.

Let you know what he finds out.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

bcbrad said:


> Yeah from all i have read I figured the same but after seeing that accessing it means I have to take everything out of the shell in order to get at it I have opted in to letting someone who knows what he is doing take on the job.
> 
> Let you know what he finds out.


all that has to come off is the back bell housing. But than you have to get the brush's back a little trick. I think you did the right thing. good luck with it .


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes exactly.....them darn brushes.

I have experienced the frustration those little darlings can cause on several router bearing replacements.

That is why I wait until I can get an exploded view of the inner workings of anything I take apart...........after all this is a hobby now not a job I get paid for.

Thanks for your replies.
Brad


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

OK......I got the saw back $67.20 later which isn't bad actually.

I put it all back together only to have it do the same thing.

EXCEPT that even though I had it unplugged I created a heck of a cool "Flash" when I connected a power wire to the housing,...so I figured the saw was OK because there is now power coursing through its system.

So I direct wired the saw to the cord and plugged it in and presto.....it took off.

Ran smooth too.

SO NOW there is a switch problem????!!!! 

"Sheep Dip" just doesn't cover it.

Any one here know where I can get some information on electric switches?
A forum talk or a switch breakdown?

Mine is an MTE 230v.

Since I am going to take it off anyway I thought,...you never know it might be an easy fix.........Maybe??

Till later


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

What did the shop say was wrong with the motor?

Bill


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

bcbrad said:


> OK......I got the saw back $67.20 later which isn't bad actually.
> 
> I put it all back together only to have it do the same thing.
> 
> ...


take that swatch off and go to a good electrial supply house they should have something that would work? Or just a switch with the right amp rateing's. I belive they are in hourse power . They should be able to get the right part. Or just a switch with the right amp ect.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*one of these oughta do it*

I use H8243 for 3 HP motors. Price is easy!  bill
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2011/Main/258


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

I would have loved to have used one of those switches on my Unisaw - but then I'd have no overload protection. So I got an education in switching a 3-phase magnetic starter with overload protection to single-phase.

Bill


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Hi guys.

I went out and picked up what the motor guy suggested which is a 
Two pole manual switch.

But you know I have forgotten how to wire these things. 

It is a Leviton 1222-2W and I am only dealing with a white black and the ground so it shouldn't be that tough.

I did wire it direct to the plug and when I plugged it in it ran great.

But I tried the wiring and blew the breaker.
Dumb is as dumb does......forgot to make a circuit.......

I'm off to bed and will look at it tomorrow........after I get into my electrical books that is.

G-nite...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Caution*

You need a double pole switch if you are using 240 volts, since both the white and black coming in are "hot". That's why I recommend those switches from Grizzly. An electrical supply house will also have a double pole switch rated at 15 amps or more. 
What's wrong with the original switch?
Maybe it was just dirty or wired wrong?
Be careful with electricity, it's invisible...... bill


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

I found the Switch makers site and they provide an electrical wiring diagram for each.

Like I figured,...Simple,.... Now it works fine.
Actually better than fine the start is super smooth where with the old magnetic switch it started with a bang. Now it starts smooth and quiet.

Thanks for your help.

I'm off to find this thing a good home.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Not to add to your worries, but do you have thermal overload protection on that motor? If it was a magnetic starter the overload protection may have been with the controller. 

Since electric motors run on smoke, you don't want to overload it because then all the smoke comes out and it's hard to put back in.

Bill


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Hi Dodgeboy.

He said it was the inner switch.
Like I was told earlier the points that make a connection get covered with pitch, especially with woods like Black Cherry, and can no longer carry the current.

If I had my old shop set up I may have tried it myself but then again it is a very expensive motor to replace.......

Anyway it is up and running smoother than ever before which makes it tough to sell but I no longer have the time or the room.

Brad


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## bcbrad (Jul 29, 2011)

Yeah I made sure the thermal ratings for the motor and the switch matched.

Been there I can tell you........stupid smoke detectors always screaming their heads off when you make a simple little mistake.
I mean "WHAT???" it only took 1/2 a fire extinguisher to fix.........!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

dodgeboy77 said:


> Since electric motors run on smoke, you don't want to overload it because then all the smoke comes out and it's hard to put back in.
> 
> Bill


Haven't you heard about not inhaling?:laughing:


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