# Looking for first table saw



## faf112 (Jan 15, 2011)

Looking for some guidance on a first table saw, right now all I need to do is some ripping. But I'm looking for a saw to learn on, and down the line I may do more. So I know it's better to get an older used one but, I'm not sure what to look for. I found the following on craigslist

franklin foundry 2 hp 10amp $100

Craftsman 137248481 $125

ridgid TS3612 for $300 says it's hardly used

I always heard craftsman was not that good but maybe thats the newer stuff, and the ridgid is more than i am looking to spend but I heard it's a good model. I'm just not sure what brands are good and what features to look for.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

WELCOME!!!

I'm sure you'll get several very helpful replys but in the mean time do a little looking around. There have been several TS threads just in the last couple weeks. A couple I have started myself. My advice is to save a little longer if you can. I feel like if you end up purchasing a portable saw tostay under a couple hundred bucks your gonna want to upgrade very soon. My current TS is a Craftsman portable and I hate everything abou it. It has been great over the years for doing things that didnt need to look good but now that I am starting to get serious about woodworking, this saw just isnt capable of making cuts that dont require further work.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Just FYI, the C-man saw you posted is the one I currently have. My advice, stay away from that thing. You wont be happy with it. Not to mention the seller is asking $125. I paid $150 for mine brand new at Sears several years ago. Even if you wanted to go with that one I dont think I would pay more than 50 bucks for it, maybe 75 if it looks brand new.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The type of saw is more important than the brand name. There are some really poor Craftsman saws, and some really good ones, and that's true of several brands. Some of the full size cast iron Craftsman contractor saws are nearly identical to the Ridgid 3612 you mentioned...both made in the USA by Emerson, both have similar guts, and potential to be very good functional saws. The Craftsman 22114 and 22124 hybrids are made by Steel City/Orion and are very well regarded. The small lightweight cheap plastic benchtops tend to be problematic regardless of the brand...B&D, Skil, Ryobi, Tradesman, Craftsman, some Delta...bad design is bad design regardless of brand. 

IMHO you're better of with a full size cast iron saw (27" deep) that has a belt drive induction motor....a good fence is always a plus, but can be added to most full size saws. You'll get more mass and stability, more table surface (especially in front of the blade), more torque, quieter smoother operation, better long term reliability, more standard accessories and upgrade options, more feasible repairs if necessary, and better resale value. Alignment and blade selection are the keys to good performance from any saw. There are good examples from Grizzly, Delta, Jet, Craftsman, Ridgid, Hitachi, Shop Fox, Powermatic, General International, Bridgewood, Woodtek, Rockwell, and others. These tend to go used in our area from $100 to $400 pretty regularly. The Ridgid 3612 for $300 is a decent saw if in good condition...you might see if they'd take a bit less. 

There are some decent portable jobsite saws from Bosch, Ridgid, DeWalt, PC, Makita, but unless you need to take the saw from location to location, portability is the only advantage of this type of saw over a decent full size cast iron saw.

Types of Table Saws (good reading)


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*These are some examples of saws I'd avoid:*

































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*Here are some examples of saws to look for:*






































Here's what a belt drive induction motor from a conventional full size contractor saw looks like (some of the newer designs move the motor inside, but its the same type):









Good luck!


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## rarewood08 (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm new to the forem actually my first post but thought I would put in my two cents. I have a Ridgid 4511 and love it granite top, plenty of power, riving knife, and got it for about $400 new. Has built in moble base that makes its almost 500 lb weight easy to move around.


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## faf112 (Jan 15, 2011)

ok thanks I definitely have a better idea now, 

I found a TS3650 that someone is selling for $400, but I'm going to try to talk him down.

If it doesn't work out I might go against the advice given and buy a cheap one for ~$50, just for portability / quick ripping and to buy some time for me to wait for a deal on a good table saw. I plan to eventually build some custom furniture for my old house, so I'll need a good one.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm a novice, and as a novice with beginner expectations and a tight budget I respectfully disagree with some of the comments. When I shopped I had 3 goals:

1) capable of basic remodeling (no fancy parquet floors) 

2) adequate for learning basic safety and saw tricks and technique

3) reliable for beginner level projects with beginner level expectations

My old used craftsman ($80 with stand, wings, and a large stack of blades) is awesome. I had to trick it out some, and I can't stress reading and studying enough. It's a LEARNER saw. I'll be happy to make some slideout kitchen drawers, and if there's a 1/32 gap on one of the a box joints.... _that's fine_. Its a learner saw. It's a utility drawer.

I've heard some bashing of Wood magazine here. Well, that's true. Wood is pretty basic. And every time I pick it up, I learn many new things, and to some I say "Duh!" or "Cool!" The way I figure it, by the time my life grants me enough shop time that Wood has become boring, saws with arbor mounted riving knives will have been around long enough that good used ones start showing up on craigslist and it'll be time to upgrade..... if I'm still in the game.

So IMO: buy small, main "building" project is knowledge in yoru head and hands, and have fun on simple projects with basic expectations. Save stunning your critics with elegant joinery for later.

Also, if you take this approach that saves $$$ to invest in measuring, layout, and other hand tools, plus dust and humidity control. 

Your mileage may vary. 

SteveEl


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## iamwelty2 (Oct 18, 2009)

Getting a cheap table saw to learn on, is kinda like dating a really ugly woman, just to "get started".... I'd skip the step and get something decent.... You'll be alot happier and learn more, you'll be safer too. Your projects will be better also. You don't have to get something incredible, just don't settle for the piece of crap portables.... I know, I didn't take this advice and settled on a cheap Craftsman... Happiest day of my life was the day it came to a screeching, smoking halt. :yes:


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## faf112 (Jan 15, 2011)

went to sears and looked all the table saws wow, what a difference 21833 and or335505 vs the rest were plastic toys, the knobs were falling off and when i turned the bevel knob would push the motor and flex the plastic housing


found alot of 20-30 year old craftsman that people are asking ~ $200, these people are crazy, but I talked the ridgid ts3650 down to $325 and I just saw this jet jws 10jf asking for $400 is the jet a better deal than ts3650? especially if i can get the price down on the jet? the 3650 has herculift and cast iron extension over jet, but what does jet have over ts3650? just noticed 18amp motor vs 13amp

and what should i check for on a used saw? 

I was also thinking about waiting for 21833 to go on sale for around ~400 or maybe the 4512,


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## reprosser (May 19, 2010)

iamwelty2 said:


> Getting a cheap table saw to learn on, is kinda like dating a really ugly woman, just to "get started".... I'd skip the step and get something decent.... You'll be alot happier and learn more, you'll be safer too. Your projects will be better also. You don't have to get something incredible, just don't settle for the piece of crap portables.... I know, I didn't take this advice and settled on a cheap Craftsman... Happiest day of my life was the day it came to a screeching, smoking halt. :yes:


I have to agree, but everyone gets to make their own choices.

I have always been happier with my quality (buy once) purchases - even though more expensive, than with my "just get by" or learner purchases. The only exceptions have been the one-time-use type equipment. Those are pretty rare, but they do happen.

The only "good" thing about the cheaper purchases was the gratitude I felt when I was able to upgrade to the better equipment. The frustration and aggravation with pushing the limits, working to make something perform on the cheap stuff - made me appreciate the quality upgrade more. As a newbie, a lot of times I did not realize how much of a difference there was.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

FA, if you find a decent saw in your class that is in excellent condition, and if you have the cash, then personally I'd get it even if the price isn't what you think it should be for a used tool. So you don't get bargain bragging rights.... if you're looking for a longterm tool, have the cash, and if it isn't outrageous, then personally I'd value the time of waiting for the bargain price tool more than the extra few bucks the seller wants and just get the thing and start using it.

But then on the other hand, to all you real beginners without much cash.... I'd just like to say.....
I agree with all the buy-cheap criticism above, HOWEVER..... 

I think that's mainly good advice for people who either (A) already have enough experience to know they need the wonderful abilities of a great saw or (B) for really *blood-red raw* beginners (like me not long ago) who have enough discretionary spending money (not like me) to tie up in a higher end tool while just cutting their first woodworking teeth.

For us dripping bloody raw and nearly _broke_ beginners..... hey, I took my time looking for a 40-50 year old saw that was built to last, was in good shape, and cost a measly $80, and the saw _still_ exceeds my skill level. 

So to all ye true (and cash strapped) beginners out there.... I'm just saying, there's a place for starting small and growing your basic skills without tying up a lot of cash. For one thing, that leaves me with cash for that $139 HF dust collector and so on and so forth. If I surprass my saws puny abilities, I'll still keep the bugger for a semi portable one to take to wherever I'm remodeling next.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

faf112, I'm glad you went and checked out the different kinds of saws. 

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss those 20-30 year old Emerson made Craftsman saws just because of the name and the age. These saws were the predecessors to the Ridgid contractor saws, including the 3650, and have much in common with them...the guts are essentially the same. Note the similarities of the old Craftsman and Ridgid contractor saws shown above. The older Cman in the pic actually has an updated Delta T2 fence (~ $156 shipped from Tools-plus.com)....get one of those old Cman saws down to $125-$150, and you've got a nice saw for < $300, plus you can always add the better fence at a later date if and when you choose to. 

That Jet is a nice saw, but $400 is way more than it's worth IMO. They sold new in the $500-$550 range, and clearanced as low as $250. I'd think $250-$300 would be more reasonable. The Ridgid 3650 is a nice saw too...$325 is reasonable IMO, not a steal but fair. You pretty much pointed out the major differences. I'd go for a $400 R4512 or 21833 before I'd pay $400 for the used Jet...you'd at least have a warranty and return priveleges.


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## oldmacnut (Dec 27, 2010)

I bought the r4512 as my first ts, and i am very happy with it. However......lol......i just converted it to use the ts3650 1 piece rails, fence, and cast iron extensions. So now i have a full cast iron top, 1 piece rails, and the fence with the micro adjuster. I am hoping to break it all down again, and take pictures to create a workflow on the entire process. It wasnt to bad, the rear rail was a pain, just in the limited room to work with the bolts, but pretty painless if you ask me. Anyway, here is a pic i took late last night, no its not finished, yes i know i put the extensions on reverse, i did that on purpose. 

Even without "upgrading" the rails/top, i would highly recommend the ridgid saw, tech and customer support is fantastic, but i also get a lifetime warrenty on the saw, lifetime.


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## dwendt1978 (Mar 13, 2010)

Better post a "how-to" on the R4512. Just got one myself and it is amazing. Where did you get the spare parts? And with the rails how much more of a rip capacity do you have now?


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## oldmacnut (Dec 27, 2010)

dwendt1978 said:


> Better post a "how-to" on the R4512. Just got one myself and it is amazing. Where did you get the spare parts? And with the rails how much more of a rip capacity do you have now?



You didn't say please. lol

Still working out some bugs, specifically rear rail, I will however have a full idiot proof workflow on this conversion, or just the rails/fence, or just the CI ext's, all variants of how to do this.

I love writing workflows.


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