# Is this table saw any good?



## Patrick. (Jul 11, 2011)

Im a newbie and looking for a good but relatively inexpensive table saw, preferably one that I can mount to a larger table (e.g. ultimate tool stand) rather than using the normal legs. There is a Craftsman 113.299410 for sale on CL for $200 (http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/2477203015.html) but I havent been able to find any manuals or reviews online for the saw. Is it a good basic saw? Any idea when that model was manufactured? Assuming it is in good condition, what is a fair price? 

Thanks!


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Patrick - The 113 prefix indicates that it was made in the USA by Emerson....it's a good basic full size cast iron saw. It has an upgraded fence, which is a good sign. These were made by Emerson for Sears until 1997, when they actually became the early Ridgid contractor saws that were made until 2004. If it's in decent shape, has a belt drive induction motor that runs, it could be very good starter saw for $200, but it never hurts to offer less! 

A good blade and good alignment are the keys to good performance from any saw. Good luck and please keep us posted about whether or not you got it. :thumbsup:


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## Patrick. (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks! Ill see if I can check it out after work tonight. Are there any specific things I should look for when evaluating it (or any used TS)? Also, how would I know if it has an induction motor?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Patrick. said:


> Thanks! Ill see if I can check it out after work tonight. Are there any specific things I should look for when evaluating it (or any used TS)? Also, how would I know if it has an induction motor?


The fact that the manual says "Belt Drive Saw" is a solid indicator. The key is differentiate between a direct drive universal motor, and a belt drive induction motor. This type of saw should have a belt drive motor hanging off the back of the saw, but a few models that look similar actually had a internal direct drive universal motors, which I would not recommend buying. 

You want it to look something like this:









This saw might go fairly quickly...I'd try calling soon to ensure it's still there for you.


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## Porphyre (Jan 5, 2011)

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## Howard Ferstler (Sep 27, 2007)

Porphyre said:


> knotscott - Can you elaborate? I'm a newbie like Patrick...
> 
> The difference between belt and direct drive seems obvious on the surface, but why is one better or preferred over the other?
> 
> What's the difference between a belt drive motor and a universal? Why's the belt drive better? Thanks!


Actually, so-called direct-drive saws are not really direct drive at all. They make use of encased reduction gears to keep the blade speed from being too high, and the gearing down also increases torque. (Even portable hand saws use reduction gears.) Those saws make use of universal motors that have brushes. They have a lot of power for their size, but brush wear happens and they are not really designed to run continuously. Interestingly, some miter saws with universal motors are belt drive designs.

The induction motors found on saws that make use of belt drive have no brushes, and they are more durable and quieter ((no brush-scraping noise) than universal types, although pound for pound they are probably not as powerful. (If we have any electrical engineers on hand they can comment on this.) They can also run continuously, although there is no reason why this advantage would matter with a circular saw for hobby work.

There is no inherent advantage with either for basic cutting jobs, but generally saws with induction motors are bigger, heavier, and more stable, and have more robust mounting systems for the blade assembly. On the other hand, saws with universal motors usually put their lighter weight to advantage, since most of them are decently portable. Good for jobsite work.

Howard Ferstler


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

I would think that another reason that the universal motors are noisy is because of those reduction gears.

Sears made some direct drive contractor size table saws. I think they were induction motors. Woodnthings can elaborate as I think he has 40 or 50 of them bolted together. :laughing:

Bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm not an EE (or an IE or ME), but to the best of my knowledge induction motors tend to generate more torque than universal motors, have much less noise, better reliability, less maintenance, and are typically more feasible to replace in case of failure. All probable reasons why you see belt drive induction motors in bigger machinery, but I'm sure an expert could put up a valid argument for the virtues of universal motors also. 

Belts in general help smooth the operation of any motor that's driving a pulley or gear, so there's less vibration....same was true of the higher end turntables for that reason. There are examples of universal motors that use small cog belts, as opposed to a traditional v-belt or the automotive type serpentine belts that are popping up as stock drive belts instead of the v-belts. Also, if the saw should bind up, the belts have more tendency to slip, which in turn does less damage than burning out the motor, stripping drive gears, or even breaking a small cog belt.


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## Patrick. (Jul 11, 2011)

I bought the saw and will post some pics once i get it set up later this week. It came from the original owner and looks virtually brand new with no noticeable wear anywhere, including the motor. it is much quieter than some of the TS ive worked with in the past.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Nice....looking forward to the pics. Congrats!


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## Porphyre (Jan 5, 2011)

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