# New guy - Question about support for a 5' slab table...



## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Hi guys. I'm new here, been browsing around for a while and figured i'd post my first question. I've built a super cheap table about a year ago but has since started sagging / cupping. I blame it on my lack of knowledge in sanding / staining / coating both sides of my table equally. Figured if no one was gonna see the bottom of the table why spend time on it! Boy was i wrong. Anyways I'm giving it another go. Here's a pic of the first 'simple' table i built. Each piece of wood had joiners, boards were flipped depending on the grain of the wood to help negate warping, but there was no base really, just legs attached straight into the wood. Cost me $40 so it was fun regardless....










I'm now building a table to replace this one from a slab of wood that's roughly 3' x 5' x 3" It's redwood and kiln dried

This is it before being plummed and fully sanded.



















It's since been plummed, it's level so no need to plane it, just sanding and filling in some cracks right now with epoxy, but i'm wondering when i go to put the legs on whether or not i'll need some type of support beams underneath it for support? I'd hate for it to warp again. I'm hoping it'll look similar to this when finished....looks as if this one has nothing underneath it but the legs...but I think it's a closed loop for the legs, meaning they have a base up top and below?










So i'm wondering in my case, since the legs just bolt straight up to the base of the wood in my case (similar to if it just had 4 legs even though mine look like the ones in the pic) I'm wondering if i'll need any other type of support to make sure the table doesn't cup or warp over time???

I'll be finishing the wood with a stain and then an Osmo top oil. and i'll do equal top and bottom coats but still scared of warping / cupping. 

Sorry for such a long post but figured i'd get it all out. Any thoughts / help / suggestions would be awesome? Ideally I'd love for it to just bolt straight up to the table making it look very minimal underneath but if that means I'm jeopardizing the longevity of the table it's not worth it.

Thanks guys!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Finishing both sides would help but I think the top needs a skirt to keep it from cupping. If it had a skirt you could also screw some boards to the back side to stabilize it.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> Finishing both sides would help but I think the top needs a skirt to keep it from cupping. If it had a skirt you could also screw some boards to the back side to stabilize it.


+1 What Steve Said

Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

awesome thanks guys. That's for the table in the first pic correct? What about the redwood slab that i'm going to be doing next using the same legs? I'm mainly concerned for it's stabililty / longevity. Would hate for it to warp / cup over time.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

barnabaas said:


> awesome thanks guys. That's for the table in the first pic correct? What about the redwood slab that i'm going to be doing next using the same legs? I'm mainly concerned for it's stabililty / longevity. Would hate for it to warp / cup over time.


 You would have less trouble with warping with redwood but if you want longevity it needs a skirt. The warpage is the reason they've been putting skirts on tables for centuries. Another thing you might do for longevity is when you build something with thick planks you bore holes through the planks and put some threaded rods through it. You have each board wanting to go a different direction and a threaded rod will help keep the glue joints from coming apart.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Another thing you might do for longevity is when you build something with thick planks you bore holes through the planks and put some threaded rods through it. You have each board wanting to go a different direction and a threaded rod will help keep the glue joints from coming apart.


So do you mean if say i put a 2x4 underneath the slab, ideally I should bore holes through the 2x4 and then also through the slab and have them connect with a threaded rod? 

Sorry i'm not sure i completely understood that? 

Thanks for the help and suggestions guys! How is it the tables / slab you'd find at say room and board (the last pic in my thread) looks like it's simply a metal square base bolted straight into the wood....seems like that wouldn't be as strong longevity wise??


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Just bolt the legs to the slab and forget about it. I work with 3" thick White Pine all the time and frankly if it wants to warp it's going to do it no matter what you put under it. 

The slab looks to be pretty much from the center of the tree which will help.

Frankly I don't think you need anything under it but the legs. Finishing the underside would be a good idea but I never do it and haven't had one warp yet.

Take a look at my website for some table I've built out fo the thick pine.


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

cool, thanks big dave


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

so i have another quick question here.

this is the wood with a rough sand on it. First pic is the base. Second is the top.

What's the best way to deal with the crack? I was told by a shop to just dump a bunch of epoxy in there? Taping up the underside etc? Then sand off the excess? I don't have the means to butterfly the crack so I'm looking for alternatives and wondering if this will be a problem in the long run?

Bottom









Top











Thanks guys.


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## 2lim (Aug 30, 2009)

Why can't you butterfly it? All you need is a drill and some chisels.... oh and lots of time to work out the fit.

That is the only real fix I can think of. If that crack keeps moving, then it will just separate from the epoxy.

Simon


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

2lim said:


> Why can't you butterfly it? All you need is a drill and some chisels.... oh and lots of time to work out the fit.
> 
> That is the only real fix I can think of. If that crack keeps moving, then it will just separate from the epoxy.
> 
> Simon



dunno really, just didn't feel comfortable doing it i guess as i never have. I'll look into it then i guess. Is it easy enough to do? I am still really new to all this.

can you buy pre-made butterfly keys? anyone know of any good youtube videos or tutorials for this type of thing? Also if the crack goes all the way through the wood would i need to butterfly both sides, or could i just butterfly the top say a half inch to an inch down and still be ok? (sorry if that's an ignorant question - like i said i know close to nothing about this process and will be researching it further)

appreciate the help and feedback guys. Very helpful so far


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## fiirmoth (Dec 26, 2011)

That is an amazingly huge piece of wood. If you dont mind me asking, where did you acquire it and what did you pay? I think it is going to make an incredible table for you. 

I have never done a butterfly joint, but found 2 youtube vids for you:


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks. I got it from a burl wood shop down the block from my work. Artisan Burl wood I believe it was called. It was about $300 for that particular slab. Thanks for the vids! Those will be super helpful.


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## Treeoflifestairs.com (Jan 9, 2012)

barnabaas said:


> So do you mean if say i put a 2x4 underneath the slab, ideally I should bore holes through the 2x4 and then also through the slab and have them connect with a threaded rod?


I'm pretty sure he is talking about the table top itself. I've only seen this done on pick nick benches. They will drill a hole cross wise through all the boards that make up the table top then put the threaded rod through and tighten them together with a washer and nut on both sides. You can then plug the hole after. It would be done in at least two spots maybe more if the table is very long.


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## Lostinwoods (Mar 1, 2012)

*Fasteners*

Hi folks, just getting back into woodworking after 15 years and been lurking awhile. Anyway, this made me join up. The OP says he fixed the legs of the original table directly into the top. Could this not be the source of the problem from expansion and contraction across the width?
Wouldn't something like these:
http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/TT-0104/Table-Top-Fasteners
(or a shop made version) be needed both for the old table and the new one?


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

That top will warp over time if not backed up below.
I just mounted a 5 ft long oak hollow to 2" x 2" x 3/16" angle iron, and am waiting it out.
Also I have a rather expensive piece of cyprus made into a coffee table that I picked up dirt cheap. It's 2" thick and 4 ft long by 2 ft wide. It's been a coffee table now for ~20 years.
It has a dip in the center of 3/8" Wood moves, you try and reduce the chances.

Just because both sides are sealed the same, doesn't totally solve anything. If you get sun on it from the window (it s shown sitting next to) it will make the top hotter than the bottom......over time........gonna move


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## barnabaas (Feb 16, 2012)

yea i think we're also going to move it away from the window for that reason as well. hoping this piece doesn't want to 'move' too much...but I see your point, Thanks guys!


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## Lostinwoods (Mar 1, 2012)

Again; on the original post it says the legs are attached straight into the wood. I would think this is a problem unless you mean the top and legs were attached using some sort of method that allows for expansion and contraction of the top.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

barnabaas said:


> So do you mean if say i put a 2x4 underneath the slab, ideally I should bore holes through the 2x4 and then also through the slab and have them connect with a threaded rod?
> 
> Sorry i'm not sure i completely understood that?
> 
> Thanks for the help and suggestions guys! How is it the tables / slab you'd find at say room and board (the last pic in my thread) looks like it's simply a metal square base bolted straight into the wood....seems like that wouldn't be as strong longevity wise??


Sorry about taking too long for the followup. I lost the thread. A 2x4 will work however a 1x4 is enough. The skirt is attached to the underside with screws which are drilled from the back side on a angle like the pocket screws used in making faceplates. Then here and there glue a block to the skirt and top. The idea is to firmly attach the skirt but not go overboard. If you glue the skirt across the end grain with a continous glue block when the wood on the top shrinks it will make the top split. In your case where the wood is already split, it will make it worse. I normally don't use a board that has cracks on the ends but there is no reason you can't use one of these bowtie patches on the back side to help it from getting worse. Lumber often cracks like that in the drying process and I normally purchase a board long enough I can cut that part off and have enough for my needs. There is always the chance the board is not done cracking and I hate to take the chance. As far as putting glue in the crack I would not use epoxy. I would use a carpenters glue and work it into the crack with my thumb until it comes out the other side and then clamp.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

Big Dave said:


> Just bolt the legs to the slab and forget about it. I work with 3" thick White Pine all the time and frankly if it wants to warp it's going to do it no matter what you put under it.
> 
> The slab looks to be pretty much from the center of the tree which will help.
> 
> ...


 
my thoughts exactly - except i believe you should finish both sides


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

Lostinwoods said:


> Again; on the original post it says the legs are attached straight into the wood. I would think this is a problem unless you mean the top and legs were attached using some sort of method that allows for expansion and contraction of the top.


legs DO need to be attached in a way that allows for ecpansion/contraction. but the orig post was worried about cupping


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