# mold inside my maple



## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Hello again everyone,

Quick one for you. There was a big wind storm about 3 months ago and tons of trees fell. One near me being a big leaf maple (I'm in seattle area) about 14" in diameter.

I milled it up into 2-1/2" inch slabs and have it drying in my hallway of my apartment. Don't make fun, necessity prevails when you have no shop. Aaaaaaaaaaanyway... i just cut the 8' slabs into 16" pieces and to my dismay, every single piece shows blueish mold in the endgrain. 

I've read that surface mold is common, especially in my area. But I'm worried this tree may have been infected which is why it fell in the storm. I don't know the technical term for it, but this was one root system with about a dozen similarly sized trunks coming from it. This is the only one that fell...


Is this all toast? Can I use it and just try to cover up the ugly? Please advise.


Thanks!


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

To start, you may or may not be able to salvage depending on the look you desire....and the style of furniture you build.

BUT let's start with what may have caused this molding....
How was it stacked ???? stickered/spacers, flatstacked
How much air flow???? just sitting in hallway? was fan blowing on it? was a dehumidifier absorbing the moisture in the air?
Your location can affect drying....high moisture in air???
FROM the little info posted, it appears not enough ventilation/air flow and moisture removal.

Oh Yea....POOR HALLWAY:huh::huh: That's alot of weight!!!


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Stickered with 3/4 spacers. The hallway is well ventilated, there is a natural breeze that blows all day long when I leave my windows open, which I have been doing until october. Even with poor ventilation, would mold grow INSIDE the wood fibers like this after it has been milled? The surface looks clean and dry to the touch. The mold is within.


I'll try to post pictures. The app won't let me upload anything.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Yes, it can and it will. The main water-conducting cells in hardwoods are called vessel elements. They are arranged in stacks (= vessels), like pieces of pipe, from near the root tips to the highest leaves. The hyphae strands of mold/fungus are happy to grow in the vessels. Plus, they can criss-cross from one vessel to another through side connections. Maples are sweet woods to feed in, like birch.

Equilibrium Moisture Content, air dried, is about 12-14%. That slows or stops the fungus growth but doesn't kill it off as kiln-drying can.

Most wood workers call this "spalting" ($2 word for mold appearance). Sometimes very attractive, some times not.


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Robson Valley said:


> Yes, it can and it will. The main water-conducting cells in hardwoods are called vessel elements. They are arranged in stacks (= vessels), like pieces of pipe, from near the root tips to the highest leaves. The hyphae strands of mold/fungus are happy to grow in the vessels. Plus, they can criss-cross from one vessel to another through side connections. Maples are sweet woods to feed in, like birch.
> 
> Equilibrium Moisture Content, air dried, is about 12-14%. That slows or stops the fungus growth but doesn't kill it off as kiln-drying can.
> 
> Most wood workers call this "spalting" ($2 word for mold appearance). Sometimes very attractive, some times not.


Great info, thank you so much! 
I did notice initially that some of the wood had those hard black lines running randomly in the grain but that,was just at the bottom foot or two. This is 15 feet up the tree and just looks like splochy bread mold throughout the wood. Just one more reason to build a good solar kiln. 

Thanks again


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## Woodychips (Oct 3, 2015)

This is one of the reasons that as a woodturner, I stay away from clean maple. Too often I've had blue mould in all the end grain. Makes the wood look ugly. Spalted woods on the other hand are great!


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Just don't get than moldy wood dust up your snoot, OK?
jesse, I'm a retired botany/wood scinece professor. Joining these message boards as a wood carver, I'm happy that I can push things along for anyone.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

jessesnowden said:


> Stickered with 3/4 spacers. The hallway is well ventilated, there is a natural breeze that blows all day long when I leave my windows open, which I have been doing until october. Even with poor ventilation, would mold grow INSIDE the wood fibers like this after it has been milled? The surface looks clean and dry to the touch. The mold is within.
> 
> 
> I'll try to post pictures. The app won't let me upload anything.


A natural breeze doesn't do much good indoors with wood....needs a small fan. I've got open sheds and I have one section with semi-walls with 18" off ground and 12" from roof venting but that's enough stale air movement between that I had to open one of the walls (on a track) due to pecan attempting to mold....BUT the air flows above and below good.

"Clean and dry to the touch" has gotten more folks in trouble when dealing with wood...it dries from out to in. I believe I read mold grows down to about 20% MC then it isn't much growth below but diffinently NOT at 12% MC that's AD specs....KDing is to bring MC down to 6-9% and sterilize @ 135 degrees is to kill the bugs and critters. Maples has higher tendeincy to blue mold due to a tighter and wetter grain which is slower to release the water.

IF you have spalting in 6-8 months you definitely have ventilation issues. There shouldn't be that much moisture hanging with the lumber.....even at bottom of stack.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks TT. I hoped for somebody to pop up with the hard words on drying.


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks for all the info gentlemen. Looks like I need to move! Landlord is fine with tools and material at the house but not with me building any sort of wood shed/solar kiln for drying. 

What do you guys think about this:
I've got a small spare bedroom that I just use as my tool room. It's already pretty warm up on the third floor, but obviously too moist. Do any of you forsee issues if I were to put a heater and dehumidifier in the room? Keeping the doors and windows closed at all times.


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

jessesnowden said:


> . Do any of you forsee issues if I were to put a heater and dehumidifier in the room? Keeping the doors and windows closed at all times.


 You also need air flow. Too slow of a drying rate resulted in the mold. Three things determine dryinng rate...heat, airflow and relative humidity. Increase the heat and the airflow, lower the RH and you won't have to worry about mold.


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## qbilder (Dec 19, 2010)

Blue stain in maple happens within hours if it's summer cut, days if winter cut. Heat & humidity aren't as critical as air flow. Stagnant air allows for the stain causing bacteria. Hard maple is my bread & butter. I cut more of it than anything by far. I cannot stress hard enough the importance of getting air flow over every inch of every board. And use dry stickers. If done properly, maple can be as pristine bright white as holly.


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

It's been a while since this post, and I've learned a ton. I wanted to thank you for your advice. I've got a new stack of maple that I am happy to say is drying perfectly and mold free. I'm in a new house with a dedicated shop. But your advice on airflow influenced my setup. Thanks!!


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

CONGRATS!!!!! New house....dedicated shop.....and you learned something!!!! and as a bonus you got the wood the way you wanted :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Some advice on bug kill might be more appropriate. 
As Tennessee Tim said, 135 degrees for at least 24 hours will kill bugs.
The reason I brought this up is I was reading you were drying the wood in your house....Not Good!
The insects can get into the framing and other woods in the house and start chewing.

Also I posted a "cheap kiln" thread. You might want to find it and read up. It can be taken down and set up in less than 2 minutes.


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Aard, i actually saw your kiln post the other day! I have a question about it. How long/at what moisture content is it safe to have a heater blow directly on the wood? I have a pretty heavy duty heater. Got it at a second hand store but it's designed to heat a small pump house in the winter months. Maybe this heater puts out too much, because when I pointed it at my stack of lumber in my shop i noticed a lot of checking and cracking in the face grain all around the 2 foot area the hot air was hitting first. Did you have that problem?

The setup I have right now is basically what you have but minus the tarp. My garage is a single car. 10'W×20'L×8'H. There is a box fan hanging from the rafter blowing through the stack of maple on a shelf about 6' off the ground. The heater is sitting on my workbench directly below the fan, blowing the hot air into the fan. There is also a small dehumidifier sitting on the shelf on top of the wood stack. hadn't gone in the shop all weekend while I was out of town and when I rolled up the door it felt around 100° in there. Not sauna temp, but close. 

So it's probably never going to reach that 135° you're talking about in the whole garage space. Do you think hanging a plastic sheet as a baffle for a few days would suffice for raising the temp in the stack?


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

You don't need hi powered heaters or dehumidifiers.
My space heaters are nothing more than a under desk unit for $<20.oo. They have 2 settings with a fan. 800watt and 1500watt. The tarp holds the heat well and it's very easy to get to 90 degrees on the 800 watt setting. The point is not to direct the heat directly on the wood, but instead to blow heat evenly around the piece(s). Get yourself a cheap thermometer and gauge the temp. On the 1500watt setting I can get temps up to 150 degrees. If you read my thread you'll see the process involved.
Got a moisture meter? cut a end off of the piece(s) your going to dry. If under 20-25% (depending on the wood species) it's time to kiln. After a few days, cut another end off of the piece and check again.

Tennessee Tim gave me a huge piece of oak that was a good 12" thick. I could not cut into it to check moisture so I did a different thing. I weighed the piece. The kilned it and kept weighing it. When the weight stabilized and wasn't dropping anymore...it was considered dry. Surface moisture was 6% or less. I assumed the piece was actually closer to 15% internally. I stopped and used it.

Many ways to skin a cat...just don't tell PETA.


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks for the insights. I'll put them to work!


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

There's many factors in drying, kilning and sterilizing. Most confuse kilning and sterilizing as one and the same and they AREN'T!!!!

Kilning is just a way/format of drying the wood in a speedier controlled process that also allows one to bring to a lower MC than ADing. 

Sterilizing is a process of killing bugs and other pests. This can be by chemical, fumigation or as most known HEAT!!! Sterilizing is best done AFTER the MC is brought down to the desired level. There is a newer style where I hear they're extreme heating first BUT I have my reserves about due to MC being TOO high in the beginning which causes stress and checking.

The reason it's thought of as the same is because usually the both are done in the same building/setting.

From all my readings adding too much heat or just dropping MC TOO fast causes major issues when the wood is above 20-25% MC. This causes stress, checking and other issues. That's why green wood has differ MC loss schedules to help prevent the above issues. The readings I've done, most state once below the 20-25% MC it's hard to mess up the lumber.

Drying lumber myself is done via DH with a little heat...90-100 degree is ideal BUT I don't get concerned IF I'm in the 70's....the DH is pulling out the moisture....I set mine @ 30% RH(approx 6% MC depending on temp) and let it run until it quits pulling out moisture for a week or 2, NO need to rush, LET it balance itself out internally.....THEN I sterilize.

A small fan, DH, and a 100 watt lightbulb under a sealed area is ALL
you need to dry the lumber, the light is only to get heat started, after that the DH will produce it's own heat from running......sterilize with the big heat AFTER it's MC correct.

I hope this helps and it may need it's own thread to help others.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

I learn something everyday. 
Only difference is I don't use a DH since the electric heat is dry and pushes air through and wet air goes out the exit vent (slit in the tarp).


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