# Problems making table saw sled



## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm trying to make a nice sled for my table saw, but my attempt to get a straight stiffener has failed. The problem is that the stiffener warped just a bit. I used a straight edge to make sure it was straight all the way across the sled. After I got done screwing the stiffener to the sled, the very same tool I used to make sure I had a straight edge indicates that it's off just a tad. 



















Video of slight un-straightness


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I bought a machined brass bar, can't remember from where, that was made to my saw's specs and predrilled. Fit perfectly.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm about to either pay someone to build me a sled, or buy a new table saw. Or both. 

This is the POS saw I have:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The plywood fence is too flexible*

You should use a hardwood like Maple for the fence. You can make certain it's straight using your T square, not the edge of the base plywood. You can slightly enlarge the screw hole if you want to stick with that fence. Line it up straight across then slowly tighten the screws as you go.

The runners can also be hardwood. Getting the sled square to the slots can be tricky. If you have You Tube access watch the videos on how to make a sled.

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...1884.7j3j1j1j1.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.d4Uz3eUOnQw


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

I don't even know where to even buy maple, but if the wood costs as much as the syrup, I'd better start saving! But hey, if ti's straight and I don't have to worry about fooling around like I am now, it'd be well worth it.

I actually did use the T-Square to make sure it was straight. I know the T-Square isn't square, so I just used the straight part. I didn't pay attention to the base board for straightness. I know what counts is the straightness of the fence/stiffener and it's squareness with the sled runners. I haven't attempted to attach the runners, yet. I did make the runners out of oak and they're fantastic.

With some dimes underneath, they ride just barely above the table surface. I've since sanded the corners.


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

It looks like you bought the plywood at the box store ?
They have maple.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Hmm, they might. I'm pretty sure I saw pine, cedar, birch, and of course oak. I'm certain if I'd seen maple I'd have sniffed it! Haha!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

sadly maple doesn't smell like maple syrup....i'd spend more time in my shop if it did........


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

RobinDobbie said:


> I'm trying to make a nice sled for my table saw, but my attempt to get a straight stiffener has failed. The problem is that the stiffener warped just a bit. I used a straight edge to make sure it was straight all the way across the sled. After I got done screwing the stiffener to the sled, the very same tool I used to make sure I had a straight edge indicates that it's off just a tad.
> Video of slight un-straightness


You should watch this video, it's very informative

http://wnwoodworkingschool.com/5-cuts-to-a-perfect-cross-cut-sled/

or the youtube site

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UbG-n--LFgQ

I would not trust your square TO BE square. It's not too thick aluminum and you can bend it easily, so even the "straight" part may not be straight...

AND, if you can get a piece of 1-2" - 3/4" Baltic Birch, that is what you should use for your sled...


I hope this helps a bit...

Paul


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Maple doesn't smell like syrup? Darn. Well, it's probably a good thing. I already have a pancake addiction. 

Thanks for the video link, paul! It's buffering right now. 

Yeah, I know these T-Squares are horrible. I know the T part is off a bit, but I figured the straight part was straight. But you're right, it does bend easily. I was bending the aluminum and not the board, so when I un-clamped, the aluminum went back to straight, again. Maybe I should have clamped the aluminum down, then bent the wood to match. I'll watch the video and figure something out.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

RobinDobbie said:


> Maple doesn't smell like syrup? Darn. Well, it's probably a good thing. I already have a pancake addiction.
> 
> Thanks for the video link, paul! It's buffering right now.
> 
> Yeah, I know these T-Squares are horrible. I know the T part is off a bit, but I figured the straight part was straight. But you're right, it does bend easily. I was bending the aluminum and not the board, so when I un-clamped, the aluminum went back to straight, again. Maybe I should have clamped the aluminum down, then bent the wood to match. I'll watch the video and figure something out.


I think the video will give you some insight into getting the fence square with your blade. Thats the trick.

Here is what I use and they go onsale a good bit you can dial in square quickly

Amazon.com: INCRA MITEREXPRESS Miter Express: Home Improvement

and my fence is this

Amazon.com: INCRA Miter1000/HD Miter Gauge: Home Improvement

they work great for any angle you need to cut. Like I said, if you watch for deals these can be had for a good bit less... and they come up on Craigs and ebay every so often too!

here's a video on the fence and the express


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

i made my CC sled following these instructions from a gentleman who was a prolific WW tip generator and the results were dead on:

https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/t13945/

i used BORG plywood and made it large enough to square up 24" deep cabinet panels. please note, i doubled up the front and rear stiffeners to reinforce the structure and insure accuracy.


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## Islandguy (Dec 28, 2012)

mobilepaul said:


> I think the video will give you some insight into getting the fence square with your blade. Thats the trick.
> 
> Here is what I use and they go onsale a good bit you can dial in square quickly
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post!


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

I'm not sure the order you're going in, but when I built my sled, I put the runners on first, then then squared the fence to the blade...not squared it to the edge of the sled.

I built basically the "super sled", which you can google for, there's a youtube video on making it. Me loves it.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

Islandguy said:


> Thanks for the post!


You're welcome, Islandguy. I noticed that amazon has a combo deal, although, it's not the 1000hd it's the 1000se... not sure the difference

Amazon.com: INCRA ME/1000SE Miter Express and Miter1000 SE Combo Pack: Home Improvement

or, if you want the bad boy miter gauge, this would still be a good combo deal


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Paul, I might consider those once I get a new table saw. But this one has 5/8ths miter slots. I had to shave my dimes to get them to fit! 










Do you guys think two oak 1x3s glued together would be good for a fence? They may have maple, but I know for sure they have oak.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I would not throw away the stiffener you made. Glue a piece of 1x wood on the front, oak, pine whatever, then rip this flat on your table saw. It can use the same screw holes.

If you had a jointer you could use this to make it flat/straight. Only needs to be flat on the inside.

If you do decide to make another fence, oak will work as will most other species. Just needs to be flat/straight.

The big box stores are not likely to sell hard maple, which is made from the sugar maple tree. This is more expensive than soft maple, which is one of 5 different species all labeled "soft maple".

Useful link if you are interested in the difference.
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/differences-between-hard-maple-and-soft-maple/


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

I actually made 4 stiffeners from 11-layer "cabinet grade" pine. I planned on making two sleds. I want one sled for 90 degree cuts and another for beveled cuts.

I just got back from 3 different hardware stores. None had solid maple boards. The oak they have is red oak, which I heard not to use due to it's pores letting in moisture. 

Why is this such a difficult and complicated task?

I did see a nice table saw at one of the stores. 40" wide table with extensions. I don't know if it's any good, though. I'd love to get this skilsaw to do what I need. I just don't know where to find hard wood.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

RobinDobbie said:


> I actually made 4 stiffeners from 11-layer "cabinet grade" pine. I planned on making two sleds. I want one sled for 90 degree cuts and another for beveled cuts.
> 
> I just got back from 3 different hardware stores. None had solid maple boards. The oak they have is red oak, which I heard not to use due to it's pores letting in moisture.
> 
> Why is this such a difficult and complicated task?


Red oak is more porous than white oak, but for a fence it should not matter. The fence should not be exposed to standing water.


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

80/20 extrusion in the 2040, or 1530 profile. 

They sell surplus on eBay. Perfectly straight, and built in t-track to attach things like stops.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Well, I'm getting hard maple. I want to make these better than they have to be and not screw around with these for YEARS. Thing is, the 1x4 boards are really .75 x 3.5, but I want the fence to be an actual 4" high. I guess I could get 1 x 6 and cut it down. but that would waste expensive wood.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Called a hardware store that had maple for $3.9 per board-foot. They're 44 miles away and close in 10 minutes, so I'm giving up on this until tomorrow.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Heres a link to a sled I built. I dont have the saw thats in the pics any more so I need to change my sled a little bit. If I remember correctly, I glued two 1" thick pieces of red maple together for the fence. I definately wouldnt try to use that plywood for a fence.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/super-sled-born-24193/

Theres a link in that thread with the plans for the super sled.

One thing I noticed is that your squaring your fence to the edge of your sled. You need to mount your runners and then square the fence to the blade.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

That super sled looks incredible! I'll be honest, it actually looks more sophisticated than I would be able to assemble with my current skills. I can't even seem to put together a basic sled, at this point. Maybe when I break down and buy a grizzly like yours I'll have the know-how to pull something like that off.

You're right, I really should be doing things in a different order. The guide I was following suggested that to attach the runners to the base, I should put the runners in the slots, put glue on them, then lay the base onto the saw while squared up against the table saw's rip fence. I knew that wouldn't work for me since my sled is much wider than the top of the table, and the runners are longer than the table depth, as well. I thought i'd attach the fence to the base of the sled, then get one runner(attached with screws) good and square with the sled fence. Then, I'd put glue on the other runner and slowly lay the base down onto the glued runner while making sure the screwed runner was in it's slot. If that makes any sense?


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

RobinDobbie said:


> That super sled looks incredible! I'll be honest, it actually looks more sophisticated than I would be able to assemble with my current skills. I can't even seem to put together a basic sled, at this point. Maybe when I break down and buy a grizzly like yours I'll have the know-how to pull something like that off.
> 
> You're right, I really should be doing things in a different order. The guide I was following suggested that to attach the runners to the base, I should put the runners in the slots, put glue on them, then lay the base onto the saw while squared up against the table saw's rip fence. I knew that wouldn't work for me since my sled is much wider than the top of the table, and the runners are longer than the table depth, as well. I thought i'd attach the fence to the base of the sled, then get one runner(attached with screws) good and square with the sled fence. Then, I'd put glue on the other runner and slowly lay the base down onto the glued runner while making sure the screwed runner was in it's slot. If that makes any sense?


there's an easier and more accurate way to square up the all important rear fence by using the saw blade and two drafting squares. guaranteed accurate, even on a benchtop saw.

and that PC TS reportedly has plastic elevation and/or bevel gears. also, some feel the aluminum fence isn't terribly good. personally, i like that fence's microadjust feature. generally, the ridgid 4512 is considered a top flight, value packed entry level 10"CI TS which is superior to the PC. and, if a HD can be found that will honor the HF "20% off any single item", it can be had for $400.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Oh man if I could get the Rigid for $400 I'd probably just do it! Then again, I just saw the thread about the $180($275 really) track saw from Grizzly. 

I like that idea, with the drafting squares. The rear fence being the fence closest to the operator, right?


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Couldn't sleep so I'm watching the video linked to earlier. I think I might need more clamps.










Here was how I set mine up:


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

RobinDobbie said:


> Oh man if I could get the Rigid for $400 I'd probably just do it! Then again, I just saw the thread about the $180($275 really) track saw from Grizzly.
> 
> I like that idea, with the drafting squares. The rear fence being the fence closest to the operator, right?


correct. my sled is dead on accurate.


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## the dude (Jun 15, 2012)

My sled is pretty plain and it was one of my first projects when I got my own table saw. I used 1/2 birch ply for the base and some oak I had for the runners and the fence. I did like you, raised the runners up with dimes and put glue on them, then set the base on and squared it to front edge of table. Once glue was dry I put a few small screws in the runners. Then I attached a front stiffener. To attach fence I just ran the saw kerf about 3/4 of the way across the base. Then I removed the sled and cut a strip of oak to just fit in the kerf. Then I just used my framing square that I know is square against the strip in the kerf to square my fence. My sled is right on. I can tend to over think things sometimes this was fast and simple and it works great

pit bulls rock!


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

What about using MDF for a fence? Isn't MDF supposed to be the least warpy? The other question that remains is how to clamp it. William Ng uses a 12/4 piece of maple, although he says 8/4 works as well. Is there anything I can buy at a box store that will work? My crappy skil table saw top is NOT flat.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

RobinDobbie said:


> What about using MDF for a fence? Isn't MDF supposed to be the least warpy? The other question that remains is how to clamp it. William Ng uses a 12/4 piece of maple, although he says 8/4 works as well. Is there anything I can buy at a box store that will work? My crappy skil table saw top is NOT flat.


 How long are you makimng this fence? Will it be less than 24" in length?


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

That's a 48" drywall t-square. I probably should have made a smaller one as my first attempt.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Not at all. Mine is 40" wide. Mdf would be fine for the base, but not for the fence. I used doubled up 3/4" plywood for my fence and it has performed flawlessly. Hardwood isn't absolutely necessary for the fence.


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## jpolak1764 (Feb 17, 2013)

Great video and with the recommended materials it increases your chances of success and limits the frustration. Good Luck!


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

toolguy1000 said:


> Not at all. Mine is 40" wide. Mdf would be fine for the base, but not for the fence. I used doubled up 3/4" plywood for my fence and it has performed flawlessly. Hardwood isn't absolutely necessary for the fence.


I realize hardwood may not be necessary, but I hate having to do this twice. I do *NOT* want to do it a third time, unless it's for a new saw. Measure twice, cut once, right? If you measure twice, cut twice, then cut three times, you're doing something wrong!



jpolak1764 said:


> Great video and with the recommended materials it increases your chances of success and limits the frustration. Good Luck!


Exactly. I wish I'd known about this video before I started and understood the importance of each step. I'd have a sled by now!


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## jpolak1764 (Feb 17, 2013)

Looks like there is room for at least 2 more clamps. lol :laughing: It also looks like Gorilla Glue in the picture. I don't like that for this application. It expands unevenly an may cause some irregularity in the flat plane. Regular wood glue will do just fine.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Yeah I think I'll use about 12 -16 clamps in total. There has to be 28 of them in the video! The $5 bottle of glue I have works just fine.


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## Jory (Feb 19, 2012)

*making a sled*

Here is the way I made mine. 
1. Make the runners and put them in the slots to make sure they slide well. Maple is a good choice but any hard wood can really do. 
2 make the sled surface. It can be any material MDF Plywood etc. It should be at least 1/2" thick. 
3. Put glue on the top of the runners while they are in the slots and place the sled on top. Try to put it pretty well in the final position. position you want. Accuracy is not critical. No clamps needed. The glue is only to temporarily position the sled on the runners.
4. Let the glue dry.
5 Remove the sled with the runners attached and screw the runners to it.
6. Put the sled back on the table saw and cut the slot ONLY part way with the saw blade at its maximum height.
7. Using the best. largest square you have with one leg against the blade (between the teeth of course) position the fence. I think it best to use 8 quarter wood. I don't like plywood for this but it could be OK if you double it up. glue it in place just like with the runners. 
8. After the glue is dry screw the fence down.

This technique eliminates any twisting and torque that clamps may apply that end up being relieved later by the wood twisting back to its normal state

PS. This assumes that you have made sure your table top is pretty square to the blade. It it isn't the blade slot in the sled will widen.


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## SgtSteve (Sep 12, 2012)

Here is mine. Birch ply for the base and western red cedar for the fences. It doesn't warp or twist and is light. Runners are also birch ply.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

beelzerob said:


> I'm not sure the order you're going in, but when I built my sled, I put the runners on first, then then squared the fence to the blade...not squared it to the edge of the sled.
> 
> I built basically the "super sled", which you can google for, there's a youtube video on making it. Me loves it.


Plus1
Tom


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

RobinDobbie said:


> I realize hardwood may not be necessary, but I hate having to do this twice. I do NOT want to do it a third time, unless it's for a new saw. Measure twice, cut once, right? If you measure twice, cut twice, then cut three times, you're doing something wrong!
> 
> Exactly. I wish I'd known about this video before I started and understood the importance of each step. I'd have a sled by now!


Learning, not sure that's wrong. 

And, like I said earlier: You will be hard pressed to find a better fence/back rail than a piece of 80/20 extrusion. It is dead straight and stays that way. Plus, it has t-slots so it is easy to attach to the base, and attach stops to. 

You can pick up a couple of pieces off the 80/20 store on eBay, that are about 4-ft long, of either 2040 (2 by 4-inches with 1/4-inch t-slots, my preference), or 1530 (1.5 by 3-inches, with 5/16-inch t-slots), for about $60 to $75, including shipping. This will give you all you need for the sled and a fence for a router table.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

When I get a decent table saw(maybe sooner than I thought), I'll think about the metal stuff. But I know wood can do it, so I went with wood. 

Here's the glue-up. I had to get 8ft of 12/4 maple for the clamping surface, so that was a bit of cash. The insides are skip planed. Not 100% flat, but close enough. Using the 48" t-square and the 24" framing square, I couldn't see any deviation across the length of the glued .75" x 5" boards, unlike with the plywood. Nice! I probably could/should have used 8/4 board for the fence, but my brain was stuck in glue-up mode. And yes, there's quite a bit of shifting that occurred when I clamped the boards together. Not a problem, I knew I had a whole inch more than I needed, anyway. 










The top of the almost finished sled: 










The nasty bottom:










There is difficulty sliding the sled across. With no wood on top of the sled and no downward pressure, the travel is much smoother. There seems to be some nasty friction between the bottom of the sled and the table saw surface. I had this same bull with the circular saw shoe getting stuck on the plywood back when I thought I could get decent cuts with a circular saw. I've come so far! I thought all my problems would be behind me with my sled! I did see in one of the sled articles that wax might be a good idea to apply to the bottom of the runners. I really don't thing it's the runners, I've already shaved a bit off of them. In fact, there's some slight f#$%ing play now. Uggh.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Ok, I think Johnson paste wax is what I'm going to get for the table saw surface. I just remembered I've got some Howard's feed and wax, would that be helpful on the bottom of the sled for reducing friction?

Maybe a new blade is in order? From what I've been reading, the more teeth there are on the blade, the slower the cut will be. Or, more power will have to be applied to keep the same speed, so that there's no blade burn. I *was* eyeing an 80-tooth blade. But, in light of the sled reducing tear-out, and the fact that I'm looking for ease of cut, perhaps a 40 or 50 tooth blade would be more appropriate? A 40-tooth Diablo is $30(me like), or this one is $37 -> 50 tooth Diablo Combo blade at HD.


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## Jory (Feb 19, 2012)

*Table saw sled problems*

I think you are making more of the task than necessary. Gluing up before using screws makes the job so much easier. Also replacing the runners is no big deal although if you glued them before screwing you would have to plane off the residue. To replace the runners you make new ones. Wax the sides and the bottoms and make sure they slide smoothly. Then with the saw blade at full height position the sled on the runners. The saw blade with give you the alignment you need since the slot already cut will guide it. Only screw down the sled after the glue has dried.
As far as the blade is concerned do not get a cheapie. There are reasons that some companies charge more---they are better. If you are using a low powered saw get a thin kerf blade. I have used a 30 tooth thin kerf blade for cross cutting when I get lazy and don't want to change blades and the results are very very good. Forest makes wonderful 30 and 40 tooth blades. Look on ebay you may find one a bit cheaper. If you buy one from Forest or a store get one the Woodworker-2 with a tooth layout that gives a flat bottom.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Luckily I didn't have to replace my runners. They were a little sloppy for the first 5 inches, but by the time the work hits the blade, it's tight. But, not too tight. 3 coats of poly on the bottom of the sled, paste wax on the table surface, and it's NICE. Effort-free cuts. My 4th go around with the 5-cuts method and I'm within a thousandth of an inch. The distance between diagonal corners of boards is imperceptibly different. The framing square fits every cut like a glove. I gotta tell ya, this is nice. I probably did too many things the hard way, but it was worth it in the end. This saw will work for my next few projects, and work well. And, I don't even need a new blade!

Just too much can go wrong when you're measuring literally every cut and have to get down and see where the router bit is going to enter the wood. Also, I added a bunch of contrast to these images so the condition of the wood edge would be more visible. I hope the effect isn't too distracting. 

A stack of boards I attempted to square up with the router didn't quite come together.










The edges look very nice, however. Very little deviation on the edge, and the wood is baby butt smooth. 










For reference, some edges that were cut with the circular saw. Lots of tearing, and the blade pattern is visible.










The wood I just squared up. All corners on the whole stack are just about perfect.










The edges look almost as good as the router! The blade marks are minimal.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*dude, you gotta get some better plywood*

That stuff is nasty. Nice work on the photography. How about a shot of this sled from a distance? :blink:


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Yeah it's one step up from sheathing plywood. It's $30 for a 4' x 8' sheet of this wonderful pine. The cabinets I'm building will be covered by carpet, so I don't care much about the wood. One of my future projects will involve some birch or maple that will be finished. 

Thanks! I'll get a final sled shot when I put it's little protector front thing on the fence. I'm not putting a giant lexan top guard on, just the little box in the front will work.


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