# Almost had a fire in the shop



## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I was cutting dados in some red oak for glass and I smelled something burning. I thought it was odd that that I would be burning wood because I just replaced my TS blade. And then I saw the smoke pouring out my plug. By the time I reached down to unplug it was spitting out sparks and burning my carpet. The plug was so hot that it was just starting to melt. Not only that but the smoke has cause my some breathing discomfort even now almost 20 minutes later. I can still smell the melting plug.:icon_rolleyes:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Fire extinguisher and smoke detector in your shop? If not already.....you should make sure you pick some up. Glad it wasn't worse.

I had the same thing happen last year with Christmas lights......


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I have a couple of fire extinguishers, but I’m just in shock that this happened because it’s supposed to be a heavy-duty 12 gauge extension cord. 
I m going to cut the whole 3 plug end off and connect up a metal box with two 20 amp duplex receptacles. I was always short a plug anyway with only 3 plugs.

Anyway when it rains it pours. I ran another cord so I could finish my cuts and my belt pulley suddenly fell off the motor. I can’t find the pulley key and I ran a large magnet through the sawdust, but it didn’t show up. I guess this is a sign to stop for the night. I want to replace the TS cord plug anyway.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Johhnie if it weren't 4 U this would be a dull forum*

You have the best/worst luck of any one here. Thanks for the post. :thumbsup:


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Sleeper said:


> I m going to cut the whole 3 plug end off and connect up a metal box with two 20 amp duplex receptacles.


 If you do this, please do not use one of the standard utilities or wall boxes. They are only UL listed and certified for use when they are mounted to a solid surface like a wall or ceiling. About the only 4x style designed for use with cord is one of these. I think your issue may also be overload because with (4) 20 amp outlets, you may overload that 12 gauge cord.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Burb said:


> If you do this, please do not use one of the standard utilities or wall boxes. They are only UL listed and certified for use when they are mounted to a solid surface like a wall or ceiling. About the only 4x style designed for use with cord is one of these. I think your issue may also be overload because with (4) 20 amp outlets, you may overload that 12 gauge cord.


 Thanks Mark for your advice, but I don’t take much concern over UL. I’ve been an electrician for over 35 years and I know that just because it’s not UL approved does not mean that it failed. It just means that the manufacture didn’t pay for the testing. Besides, the cord I used was UL approved and look at what happened there. A good receptacle connected up properly in a steel box is much more dependable than a molded plug and they have been used like that for many years.
As far as overload, I know all about overloads because that’s my job. You don’t have an overloaded plug unless all three plugs are in operation at the same time and if the cord is rated at 20 amps while plugged into a 20 amp circuit, the circuit breaker will trip first. I have three pieces of equipment plugged in all the time, but I’m only using one at a time, so unless the motor freezes up there is no overload.


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Sometimes there is a higher power telling you to take some time off 

I always try to be careful with cords and plugs on the floor. It's too easy for them to get smashed or crushed.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Listen to your spidey sense. It's not that things are going wrong for "no apparent reason": it's that you don't see or understand the reasons. My second rule of diving applies to all areas of my life: You can call a dive at any time, for any reason, with no questions asked and no repercussions. To call a dive means to formally end it, usually giving the thumbs up (ascend) signal. I don't work or dive when I am getting flustered by small stuff. Sure, I can work through some of it, but there comes a time to do what you did: call the work for the night. Things that were nigh on to impossible might be easy peasy in the morning.


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## lilman (Nov 22, 2012)

Reminder that I need to get an extinguisher in the garage. Glad you caught it early enough. My wife complains about smells enough as it is, she'd kill me if a fire got in the house haha


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## rcp612 (Mar 25, 2008)

Wait a minute.
You got carpet in your shop??


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

*LOL, well not the "whole" shop.*



rcp612 said:


> Wait a minute.
> You got carpet in your shop??


 I just have a 5’wide runner from my house to my workbench so my feet don’t get cold when I’m in my bare feet. When I’m actually working I have my shoes on, but sometimes I just want to do something at my little workbench. They were replacing the carpet at work and I asked for a small piece for my Van but ended up getting rid of it a month later so the carpet went in my shop instead. :laughing:


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## FishFactory (Nov 8, 2013)

I keep a 2 1/2 gallon pressurized water can in the shop. I am always welding and cutting so I get nervous about fire. It ia the same thing that we use with the fire dept, you can literally put out a small room and contents fire with one.....works very well, trust me.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

FishFactory said:


> I keep a 2 1/2 gallon pressurized water can in the shop. I am always welding and cutting so I get nervous about fire. It ia the same thing that we use with the fire dept, you can literally put out a small room and contents fire with one.....works very well, trust me.


 I’ve seen those water pressure extinguishers and I probably should get one of those in the wood shop. I have a 10lb bottle of Halon for electrical fires and a 45Lb bottle of CO2 for when I’m working on the cars. I also have a dry chemical ABC fire extinguisher at the door for my all around extinguisher. 

The Halon is pretty old and hasn’t been checked in years, but the pressure gauge is still registering full and until now I’ve never had a electrical fire. Except for this one extension cord which was supposed to be rated Heavy duty, I don’t leave extension cords plug in. 

I also do some welding but I do it outside. I did do a little mig welding in my wood shop in the garage a few weeks ago and I was pretty worried about it and I cleaned everything up pretty good before and after.

This is my outdoor welding shop. I have my large welders inside with cable run through the wall to the outside bench.


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## craigilee1877 (Jan 11, 2013)

After years in the navy, and seeing the lowest bidder's electrical runs, I'm always nervous about electrical fires. For any equipment that I can't hold in my hand, I plug into a pigtail with built in circuit breaker.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

craigilee1877 said:


> After years in the navy, and seeing the lowest bidder's electrical runs, I'm always nervous about electrical fires. For any equipment that I can't hold in my hand, I plug into a pigtail with built in circuit breaker.
> 
> View attachment 83274


 Wow, is that a circuit breaker or a GFI? I would not mind having an in-line circuit breaker. GFI is OK but only opens if there is a short between conductors or ground and not an overload. Arc flash protection would really be cool for the problem I had because the GFI did not trip, but I don’t know if Arc flash is available in cords yet.


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## craigilee1877 (Jan 11, 2013)

Sleeper said:


> Wow, is that a circuit breaker or a GFI? I would not mind having an in-line circuit breaker. GFI is OK but only opens if there is a short between conductors or ground and not an overload. Arc flash protection would really be cool for the problem I had because the GFI did not trip, but I don’t know if Arc flash is available in cords yet.


That's a great question. A friend of mine actually introduced me to these. He's an electrician, so I took his word that it would work. None of my stationary tools have tripped them...and I feel more safe...so it suites my needs. Lol


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Sleeper said:


> Wow, is that a circuit breaker or a GFI? I would not mind having an in-line circuit breaker. GFI is OK but only opens if there is a short between conductors or ground and not an overload. Arc flash protection would really be cool for the problem I had because the GFI did not trip, but I don’t know if Arc flash is available in cords yet.


Looks like a standard GFCI. I have a couple, but don't use them as much as I probably should. In a standard GFCI, the micro switch will shut off if it detects a 5 milliamp difference in the in/out flow. GFCI's are designed to prevent damage to equipment.

Mark


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

craigilee1877 said:


> That's a great question. A friend of mine actually introduced me to these. He's an electrician, so I took his word that it would work. None of my stationary tools have tripped them...and I feel more safe...so it suites my needs. Lol


Your post got me thinking about Arc Protection so Took a look at Homedepot to see how much they go for these days and I found one that will fit my box for under $40 so I'm going to buya couple for myshop to prevent this from happening again.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Q-Lin...er-THQL1120AFP2/100686307?N=bm16#.Uowi0if8vSc

They were pretty expensive when they first came out.


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## craigilee1877 (Jan 11, 2013)

I had to go check that out. You were right...GFI! I guess my mom was right about when you assume.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Burb said:


> GFCI's are designed to prevent damage to equipment.
> 
> Mark


Actually that's not true. GFCI are to prevent shock to people not equipment. 
Surge protectors are designed to prevent damage to electronic equipment.
Circuit Breakers are to prevent Overload of equipment and protect the wring.
Arc Flash or Fault are to prevent sparks from causing fire


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## craigilee1877 (Jan 11, 2013)

This is what i love about this site...you get good lessons on woodworking, and electrical. Someone throw a plumbing lesson in so we can get hat trick. 👍


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

FishFactory said:


> I keep a 2 1/2 gallon pressurized water can in the shop. I am always welding and cutting so I get nervous about fire. It ia the same thing that we use with the fire dept, you can literally put out a small room and contents fire with one.....works very well, trust me.


Be careful using a water extinguisher near live electrical lines :thumbdown: Might want to think about picking up a C, ( I think it's a C).


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Sleeper said:


> Actually that's not true. GFCI are to prevent shock to people not equipment. Surge protectors are designed to prevent damage to electronic equipment. Circuit Breakers are to prevent Overload of equipment and protect the wring. Arc Flash or Fault are to prevent sparks from causing fire


I agree with your statement, but I've heard and read it both ways on GFCIs. Either way it does both, which is a good thing.

Mark


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Burb said:


> I agree with your statement, but I've heard and read it both ways on GFCIs. Either way it does both, which is a good thing.
> 
> Mark


Nope It does not. Its ONLY function is to protect human beings from electrical shock Period. That is what its designed to do and that is what the national electrical code species it for.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Sleeper said:


> Nope It does not. Its ONLY function is to protect human beings from electrical shock Period. That is what its designed to do and that is what the national electrical code species it for.


Correct. Not going to protect the overload one bit.


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Correct. Not going to protect the overload one bit.


I never said anything about overload, but I will digress at this point.

Mark


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Burb said:


> I never said anything about overload, but I will digress at this point.
> 
> Mark


 The 5 milliamp you spoke about is not an arbitrary number. It is specific to what the human heart can withstand before it stops given a little safety margin for other variables such as the condition of the heart.


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## FishFactory (Nov 8, 2013)

nbo10 said:


> Be careful using a water extinguisher near live electrical lines :thumbdown: Might want to think about picking up a C, ( I think it's a C).


 
You are right....C is electrical. ABC is what is better, its not the electrical equipment I am worried about though, its the saw dust, wood and everything else around the shop that can burn. You can put out ALOT more fire ALOT faster with a water can than you can with an ABC. Good idea to have an ABC lying around for electrical issues but your far better off with a water can, I have put out fires with them that you would swear you need a line for....


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

I'm not electrical, find it a rather shocking subject, have read all the replies to the melted connection problem and still have no idea what actually caused the problem. Maybe I missed it but if I didn't would someone explain why it happened.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

SandburRanch said:


> I'm not electrical, find it a rather shocking subject, have read all the replies to the melted connection problem and still have no idea what actually caused the problem. Maybe I missed it but if I didn't would someone explain why it happened.


 The problem was that the plug came loose while the motor was running causing sparking in the plug which in turn overheated the plastic or whatever the material it is made of. Once the plug started to melt it caused the plug to produce more sparking which did not quit until I turned off the saw. 

It could have burned all the way through to the other conductor which would have been a short and then would have tripped the circuit breaker which would have been an overload at that point.

The circuit breaker did not trip because the current had not reached the tripping point of 20Amps. The GFCI did not trip because it requires the current to take another path to ground such as maybe a human body. 

If I had Arc protection it would have tripped as soon as it started sparking.

Also If the plug were a hard PVC Plastic strong enough to keep a tight grip on the brass prongs, this would not have happened. I may have been standing on the plug as well, but I don't remember or didn't fell it with my work boots.

Disclaimer: I just wanted to ad that I‘m an electrician with an extensive background in electrical testing and Troubleshooting. I am not a chemist and I do not have any idea what type of plastics or neoprene these cords are made of so feel free to correct me on what the cords are made of.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Things fail all the time and especially so for electrical corntraptions. Just a little water let's the magic smoke out of most things electrical. A bad crimp that cuts a substantial number of the wires can cause a hot spot that gets weaker and hotter with age. Make no doubt about it: Murphy was an electrician.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I was curious about using Arc-Fault Breakers with motors because motors especially with brushes do have some sparking. Since I have never used them and we do not use them at work, I decided to do a little research and found that they are not required in the garage and kitchens. I suspect that it’s because those are places where motors are found such as refrigerators, mixers, garage door openers and power tools.

So I think the only way to prevent this sort of thing from happening again is to not use extension cords. All of my shop equipment is on wheels so I need the extension cords. 

It may be an inconvenience but since I have to replace the power cord on my saw anyway, I’m thinking of replacing it with a 15 ft cord and not use an extension cord at all. 

I can’t do this with all my stuff like my miter saw and having a lot of cords run all over the place present a trip hazard. I wish I had a roll up garage door instead of sectional doors because then I could have drop down cords.


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Sleeper said:


> So I think the only way to prevent this sort of thing from happening again is to not use extension cords. All of my shop equipment is on wheels so I need the extension cords.


 The only way to completely "prevent" this sort of thing is to never use electricity. You can ameliorate the risks considerably by reducing/eliminating the use of extension cords especially if they are undersized or poorly made. I would love for you to dissect the offending plug to see just how it was assembled. It would be interesting to see how they did the three way split. 

On a side note, I have added a number of outlets throughout the shop all on new breakers to do just that. I have one permanent extension cord to my work center. I do have a couple of 12 and 14 gauge extension cords for when I have to run a drill or similar tool outside.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't think there is any reason to go overboard with special devices. Electrical components wear out like anything else. Just replace them with some that is rated for the equipment you are using.


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## w1pers (Nov 27, 2013)

I plug all my stuff into a surge and keep a couple fire ext. around. as well. Never had a problem with elec. but did try to burn house down once with my gas grill. Now that was fun! Always keep a few around for when I do stupid things.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I’ve still been using the cord for the saw but just not the side that melted. I also used a jeweler’s screwdriver to spread the prong of saw plug so it will be a tighter fit and not come loose. 

I decided that I really need this cord with 4 receptacles so I can plug in my saw, planer, and joiner. I will also have an extra place to plug in a hand sander or whatever. :smile:

Yesterday I finally just got around to buying the stuff for a new receptacle end on the cord, but I want to spot weld the unused knockouts in the steel box so they don’t get accidentally knocked out first. 

Some boxes have really tight knockouts that are a pain to get out, but I don’t trust this box I got from Home Depot for 79¢. I think they could come out just from dropping it on the floor and I’m too cheap to spend $5 more for an outdoor box with threaded knockouts. :shifty:

The new box covers come with 3 screws per receptacle to hold them secure which I really like. I may drill out some of my old covers and add screws to them someday. :thumbsup:


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Be careful if it's galvanized. The smoke is poisonous.


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

Sleeper said:


> I was curious about using Arc-Fault Breakers with motors because motors especially with brushes do have some sparking. Since I have never used them and we do not use them at work, I decided to do a little research and found that they are not required in the garage and kitchens.....
> 
> So I think the only way to prevent this sort of thing from happening again is to not use extension cords.


Arc Faults are not required in kitchens, baths and garages because there is a very low incidence of arc fault fires in those locations. The typical cause of the arc fault fires is damage to the plug/receptacles when furniture is pushed into them. This happens mostly in bedrooms, with beds being pushed up against receptacles. The resulting fires are frequently fatal. 

GFCIs are required in kitchens, baths, basements with unfinished floors, and garages because plumbing/water and damp concrete can all be pretty good grounds. And this is where most electrocutions occur.

Over current can happen anywhere, and thus breakers are on all circuits. 

OSHA will cite you for extension cords in use in commercial shops. Sometimes they will give you a pass for a portable tool, but not often.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> OSHA will cite you for extension cords in use in commercial shops. Sometimes they will give you a pass for a portable tool, but not often.


 Yes and that’s what I love about my home shop. Those SOBs can’t come in here. 
I have been dealing with them for 30 years at work and a lot of stuff is good for workers safety I grant you, but then there is the BS stuff that is bought and paid for by big corporations dealing with safety stuff. It’s very suspicious that some of the same stuff manufactured with the same machinery suddenly jumps up in price as soon as it’s listed as “safety”. I don’t think it’s too complicated to see what’s going on, but as long as there are stupid people willing to buy into it, it’s only going to get worst.
Anyone with common sense and skilled in what they do shouldn’t need them.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

OK I got the new outlet box up and running for now and I'm happy with it. I was going to paint it safety yellow, but I have to go to Thanksgiving dinner

Welded Knockouts 









Welded Bracket to outlet box









Finished Outlet









I’m going to change cord connector to a strain relief when I find it. I have a 2 or 3 of them around here someplace but can’t find it at the moment and just want my saw back in operation for now. :smile:


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> OSHA will cite you for extension cords in use in commercial shops. Sometimes they will give you a pass for a portable tool, but not often.


This is not completely accurate. Extension cords are legal and ok for use in a shop under the right condition. However, their use is limited to mobile equipment or for temporary purposes. Flex cords cannot be a substitute for permanent wiring. The cords must be properly insulated, grounded, properly rated for application, and protected from incidental damage. 

There are other situations but this is the gist of it.


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