# Are there any cabinet installers here?



## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

I am ordering some semi-custom cabinets and am planning on doing the install myself. I have a few questions prior to ordering. I plan on doing extensive research on how to install cabinets prior to doing the work.


One issue I have is that on wall is out of plumb. There is probably a 1/4" to 3/8" gap from the bottom of the base cabinets to the top. I'm guessing the countertop will cover the gap at the top. I'm not sure how to cover the gap on the side, however. The cabinet will have a deluxe end. I'm assuming that I will need to scribe it to the wall. Should I order an end panel that is a little bigger than the cabinet to account for this?


Also, the wall cabinets will have the same issue, since the wall is out of plumb. How do I plumb the cabinets front to back without showing a gap?


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

The gap over the length of the height of the cabinets will be less than the entire wall. Using finished ends on exposed ends will allow you to scribe the fit to the wall. You can order pre-finished end skins which are only 1/4" thick or order finished end panels which usually have the same panel as the doors. The sides of the cabinets have a rabbet for the backs and this usually sticks out 1/4". The cabinet can be scribed to the wall at least this amount. End panels are typically wider that the cabinet sides for scribing but check to make sure.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Hammer1 said:


> The gap over the length of the height of the cabinets will be less than the entire wall. Using finished ends on exposed ends will allow you to scribe the fit to the wall. You can order pre-finished end skins which are only 1/4" thick or order finished end panels which usually have the same panel as the doors. The sides of the cabinets have a rabbet for the backs and this usually sticks out 1/4". The cabinet can be scribed to the wall at least this amount. End panels are typically wider that the cabinet sides for scribing but check to make sure.


+1. :yes: If you find out that the panel for an end panel is the same as the end, You could consider just a quarter round or flat trim piece. You may have to trim a small bit off both stiles to give yourself some cabinet end to use a trim piece (if it's butted to the stile). The panel ends may have a periphery profile, that you may not want to cover up, or cut off. The narrower it is the more obvious it will be that it's tapered.


















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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If it isn't out of plumb any more than that I wouldn't worry about it. I would just set the base cabinets in and insure you have the top level and disregard the rest. What little gap there would be where it meets the wall could be just be trimmed. If you had a eight foot tall oven or pantry cabinet then you might want to scribe it if possible. I'm not sure what you mean by a delux end panel. At my shop it would mean the end of the cabinet is solid wood like one of the doors with perhaps a raised panel. Then it would be part of the cabinet and if not planned for in advance there would be nothing to scribe.


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Scribe mold is the standard around here.


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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

Yes, the deluxe end is just a raised panel end (similar to the door). That's why I want to figure it out ahead of time. I'm not sure if I will just be able to order an end panel that is just a little longer to scribe.


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

I try to measure how much the wall is out before I make the cabinets, then make those end panels that much wider than the cabinet depth and scribe it. You could use molding, but in my opinion, a scribed fit is more professional looking than either a molding or a gap.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

nolo said:


> Yes, the deluxe end is just a raised panel end (similar to the door). That's why I want to figure it out ahead of time. I'm not sure if I will just be able to order an end panel that is just a little longer to scribe.


You may very well not be able to order a wider end panel. If the cabinets are production cabinets instead of custom cabinets then they will only have one size. If the cabinets are custom then the shop should be able to make the panel any size you need or at least make the stile on the left or right side wider.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I would do like Steve said, install the cabinets against the wall and shim the counter top level.


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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks guys.

I have another question. There is a trim piece next to my dishwasher that I will need to install. The kitchen designer added a trim piece with plywood end. Do you know if the trim and plywood end will be already attached? If not, I could save some money by just ordering the trim and cutting a plywood end to fit next to the dishwasher. It would not be visible. 

My main concern is how I would attach it. I do not want to face nail the trim piece. How can this be accomplished?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

nolo said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I have another question. There is a trim piece next to my dishwasher that I will need to install. The kitchen designer added a trim piece with plywood end. Do you know if the trim and plywood end will be already attached? If not, I could save some money by just ordering the trim and cutting a plywood end to fit next to the dishwasher. It would not be visible.
> 
> My main concern is how I would attach it. I do not want to face nail the trim piece. How can this be accomplished?


You will have to find out about that ahead of time. You could attach the trim with contact cement or adhesive caulk.


















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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

for a kitchen cabinet run, i find the highest point of the floor, then shim everything else up to that point as i install them, so that the tops of the cabinets are all flush. 

_doing the same thing_ with the wall, a string helps here. a bow in the wall could leave your last cabinet 1" away from the wall. 

the more you attach them to each other (screw through face frames) the better the install imho.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*agreed!*

Shim up, space out. Corners are good to add support. Scribe the visible end panels to fit.
Use one of these:
Amazon.com: Charles Leonard Inc. Ball Bearing Compass, Metal, 1/Card (80360): Office Products

Mark where they get cut front and back. Cover the edges with trim.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sounds easy doesn't it. Yep, just shim them level and screw to the wall. No it ain't. If the wall is concave (linear), you'll have cabinets that may not even be on the wall after the end ones get installed. If you screw them all together, you may have a visible gap on the underside where they meet the wall. Those gaps have to be shimmed, or there should be enough scribe to make it all work. 

If you have a situation where the wall is convex and you're installing a base cabinet, the countertop may have to be shifted one way or another, or, there could be a huge gap behind it, not withstanding keeping the overhang in the front correct. 

Yeah, just shim it up, and screw it to the wall.:laughing: Don't forget that nifty compass. It may come in handy.


















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## madmantrapper (Feb 6, 2013)

I've done hundreds of cabinet installs, but only ones we build. You have to face it if we aren't there to see it we can't fix it. There is a lot to it to make it professional looking.


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## nolo (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks. I hope you guys check back here often because I have a lot of questions. Here is a rough initial layout:











LDCB36R base cabinet is a concern of mine. I'm worried about the angle not mating up properly to the adjacent cabinets. What can I expect with this transition between the two cabinets next to it?


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## madmantrapper (Feb 6, 2013)

You will have to screw the face frames in alignment and then shim to take the tension off the connection. Sometime where you have a lot of angles and crooked walls and such , you have to assemble and shim and shove to get right.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Sometimes it is easier to redo the wall so it is plumb and straight before installing the cabinets.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

nolo said:


> Thanks. I hope you guys check back here often because I have a lot of questions. Here is a rough initial layout:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No wonder you have questions. You are looking at your plans upside down! :smile:


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

nolo said:


> Thanks. I hope you guys check back here often because I have a lot of questions. Here is a rough initial layout:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


typically the faceframe extends 1/16 - 1/8" beyond the side of the cabinet on all of the cabinets. this allows for most angular adjustments that are required.


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## aaronhl (Jun 2, 2011)

Do you trim to scribe with a hand planer? What is the method you use?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

I like to use my belt sander, giving it a slight back angle. this makes touch-ups easier. depends on how much has to come off. standard hand plane may not let you make a concave profile easily.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

aaronhl said:


> Do you trim to scribe with a hand planer? What is the method you use?


It depends on what the scribe is, material, size, and what has to come off to fit. It could be a loose filler piece, or one integral to the cabinet. Could be a belt sander, hand plane, table saw, jig saw, band saw, coping saw, backsaw, and possibly a utility knife.








 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

aaronhl said:


> Do you trim to scribe with a hand planer? What is the method you use?


The edge of the scribe doesn't show. If you need to take enough off that caulk wouldn't do then I would put masking tape on the face of the cabinet to protect the face and trim it off with a circular saw.


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## Johnny5 (Mar 7, 2014)

What type of cabinets did you order? Are they the classic face frame setup or the European style with no face frame? Is this gap along the front side of the base cabinet or at the back? 

Cabinet style makes a difference because each box is built differently. The euro style won't have any additional material to scribe. In that case, the gap is what it is. You can order scribe molding to cover it, or favor the decorative end panel closer to the wall which will likely hide the gap in shadow and make it unnoticeable. Without seeing it, it's tough to help.

I always install straight, plumb, and square. Just because the rough framing is effed up, doesn't mean my cabinets are going to be. Sometimes you can dig out some drywall if absolutely necessary. Find your highest point and set your elevations based on that. Find your furthest wall projection and base your face location on that. I like to set the cab elevations and fasten them together before fastening to the wall. Be sure to get lots of clamps, they come in real handy keeping panels nice and tight. I use 2 or 3 points along the front, and 1 point at the top rear corner. A 72" level or longer helps to line up and maintain a straight face.

There are tons of tips, tricks, installation procedures that go into a professional install. Lots of years learning this stuff, and it's impossible to relay it all in a forum post. Pics certainly help a lot in visualizing what it is you are asking.

A 23 guage pin nailer comes in handy for face nailing panels and trim. Leaves a minimal hole that can be easily filled with the supplied color matched hole filler (order the touch up kit!). 18 guage brads are reasonably invisible when filled as well.

Hope this helps a little!


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