# Can Someone Explain'Door Protrusion' for Hinges (Blum Catalogue Drops the Ball)?



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

I have Blum 38N hinges (p.81 in the current catalogue).

For the hinge mount specs in the section headed: '*Wraparound and edge mount hinges'*
it has a column for 'overlay' and one for *'door protrusion'* but in their accompanying diagrams they have neglected to illustrate _where_ protrusion is or _what_ is. Their diagrams illustrate a.) gap, b.) overlay, c.) thickness of hinge mount, d.) material thickness, and other measurements ... but no protrusion.

Another error in their (graphics department dropped the ball) is in this same chart at the top they have two silhouette diagrams of the two hinge types (wraparound and edge mount) but the diagrams are identical, ie. they are both edge mount silhouettes). What's the point of illustrating the two different hinge types if they are presented as the same hinge?

I need to find out if protrusion is a critical measurement for my application?

Further I believe I bought the wrong hinge based on a mix up of side-to-side adjustment range: I confused the Compact 33 which has a more generous 1/8" side-to-side adjustment while the 38N has only 1/16".

----
My face frame is *5/8" wide* where it abuts another surface.

The 38N requires a 9/32" reveal for 3/4" thick doors (which I have). 
Based on the reveal data, I can overlay the door a maximum of 11/32 (9/32" reveal + 11/32" overlay = 5/8").
I bought the hinge with 1/2" edge mounting - the only edge mount model of this hinge - and which overlays 14/32" adjusted to minimum overlay: that amount of overlay will not yield enough reveal for the door to open properly.
Looks like I'll need to exchange it for the 3/8" Wraparound Mount hinge (i.e. 3/8" overlay minus 1/32" side-to-side adjustment + 9/32" reveal = 5/8").

... where does door protrusion factor into this?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I use the 38N hinge. how far from the edge of the door are you drilling the hole? I drill it about 1/8" back from the edge and have quite a bit of adjustment when hanging them. I've never not been able to adjust the doors to 1/2" overlay. Not sure what you mean about protrusion but it's normal for European hinges to have more than a sixteenth gap between the back of the door and the cabinet.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)




----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

Duplicate post removed


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> I use the 38N hinge. how far from the edge of the door are you drilling the hole? I drill it about 1/8" back from the edge and have quite a bit of adjustment when hanging them. I've never not been able to adjust the doors to 1/2" overlay. Not sure what you mean about protrusion but it's normal for European hinges to have more than a sixteenth gap between the back of the door and the cabinet.


Steve,
I haven't yet drilled the hole but will follow the 1/8" distance as Blum indicates as other parameters are indexed to that, such as reveal etc.

Please refer to my pic above from Blum's catalogue page on the 38N hinge regarding *protrusion* ... it's a different parameter than 'gap'. I still do not know what it is: however it impacts overlay as those measurements appear t be intimately related together, one impacts the other. 

I do not believe I will be able to adjust the 1/2" overlay hinge to fit ... specs state this hinge series has only a 1/6" +/- overlay adjustment (by via a cam screw). I need to maintain Blum's minimum reveal of 9/32" for my 3/4" door to open properly without contact: I cannot do that with the 1/2" overlay edge mount hinge (#38N355BE08 from pic above) even allowing for the 1/16" - adjustment. 
I think I would need to use the* 3/8" wrap around mount hinge* (#38N355B.06 from above pic) and adjust it to maximum overlay (+1/16"):

Width of stile I need to work within = 5/8":

9/32" = minimum reveal
3/8" = hinge overlay
 - 1/32" = overlay (minus) adjustment to hinge via screw cam
Total = 5/8" 

However there are two unknowns: 1) this hinge requires a 1/4" door protrusion vs. the 1/8" of the 1/2" overlay hinge, 2) I have an edge mount hinge and I do not know if a *wrap around mount* will present a problem mounting to my metal/wood sink cabinet stile (see pics at this link):









Need a Good Hinge Solution for an Unusual Cabinet Door...


What if you treated it like a closet door with pins similar to a bifold. It looks like you have plenty of space to relocate the hole if needed. That would give you the option of making something out of wood if the original doors are beyond repair. Just an option. Why not build a face frame to...




www.woodworkingtalk.com





In any case I cannot move forward until get this hinge issue sorted out. It's been a rough ride for me in the Blum rabbet hole.


----------



## RBhoffmann (Dec 12, 2020)

Protrusion is the amount the door sticks INTO the cabinet. Zero protrusion is no part of the door enters into the cabinet area and allows for shelves or slide outs to reach al the way flush to the face frame. Any amount of protrusion means that the door will be entering the cabinet.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks RBhoffman,
But if that's the case I don't understand the specs for this hinge. Blum states the hinge with 3/8" overlay has a 1/4" protrusion. Does that mean the hinge has to be mounted with 1/4" inserted into the cabinet when the doors are closed??? This makes no sense to me. And the images in Blums' catalogue for this hinge (p.81) do not show the door inset into the cabinet by any amount.
I'm more confused.

???


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Lovegasoline said:


> Steve,
> I haven't yet drilled the hole but will follow the 1/8" distance as Blum indicates as other parameters are indexed to that, such as reveal etc.
> 
> Please refer to my pic above from Blum's catalogue page on the 38N hinge regarding *protrusion* ... it's a different parameter than 'gap'. I still do not know what it is: however it impacts overlay as those measurements appear t be intimately related together, one impacts the other.
> ...


The protrusion term is something I've never heard of or been concerned with except on occasion. Unless you have pull out shelves behind or something close to the size of the opening to put in the cabinet the protrusion isn't something to be concerned with. 

I got out a N38 hinge and adjusted the screw in all the way out like you were adjusting the door toward the hinge side and it measured 9/16" overlay. Adjusting it in all the way like you were adjusting away from the hinge side it measured 15/32" overlay. There 1/16" dimension seems to be pretty close. There used to be more adjustment than that. Not too long ago they changed the hinges to soft close. This may be the reason for less adjustment. Blum does make a 38N hinge with 3/8" overlay.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> The protrusion term is something I've never heard of or been concerned with except on occasion. Unless you have pull out shelves behind or something close to the size of the opening to put in the cabinet the protrusion isn't something to be concerned with.
> 
> I got out a N38 hinge and adjusted the screw in all the way out like you were adjusting the door toward the hinge side and it measured 9/16" overlay. Adjusting it in all the way like you were adjusting away from the hinge side it measured 15/32" overlay. There 1/16" dimension seems to be pretty close. There used to be more adjustment than that. Not too long ago they changed the hinges to soft close. This may be the reason for less adjustment. Blum does make a 38N hinge with 3/8" overlay.


Yeah Steve, I was confusing the specs of the 38N with the Compact 33 hinge (older design that doesn't feature the soft close). The latter has a more generous 1/8" +/- adjustment range which would have worked in the 1/2" overlay version. The only issue os the 3/8" 38N only comes in wrap around mount - not edge mount - not sure if that will make a difference for my intended application.
Thanks for confirming the adj. range.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Lovegasoline said:


> Yeah Steve, I was confusing the specs of the 38N with the Compact 33 hinge (older design that doesn't feature the soft close). The latter has a more generous 1/8" +/- adjustment range which would have worked in the 1/2" overlay version. The only issue os the 3/8" 38N only comes in wrap around mount - not edge mount - not sure if that will make a difference for my intended application.
> Thanks for confirming the adj. range.


I don't see any difference in this hinge and the 1/2" overlay. The photo may be outdated though, just lacking the soft close. Blum Compact 38N Hinge and Mounting Plate 3/8 inch Overlay with Dowel 38N358C.06


----------



## J.C. (Jan 20, 2012)

Here's a video that shows what Blum refers to as protrusion. 5 min is zero protrusion hinge 8:40 for the standard hinge.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> I don't see any difference in this hinge and the 1/2" overlay. The photo may be outdated though, just lacking the soft close. Blum Compact 38N Hinge and Mounting Plate 3/8 inch Overlay with Dowel 38N358C.06


OK. The difference between the edge mount and the wraparound mount is the latter has 4 tiny prongs on the mounting plate that orients it on the edge of 3/4" thick race frame. Other those 4 little prongs the two hinges are identical, or so I'm informed by Blum CS. The silhouette illustration up thread is thus accurate (my error in deciphering it) and one can see the little prongs.
It appears that I was sold the wrong hinges (I ordered edge mount but was given wrap around; nonetheless I need to return these for 3/8" overlay screw in 38N. This store doesn't stock them, nor does Lowes. Now I need to do a search in NYC and try to locate them. I'l go forward and glue up my sink cabinet fur strip make it all work out in one way or another after I have the hinges in hand.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

J.C. said:


> Here's a video that shows what Blum refers to as protrusion. 5 min is zero protrusion hinge 8:40 for the standard hinge.


Thanks ... I'll have a look through.

Blum's catalogue is accurate ... if you already understand their hinge system. Not necessarily intuitively completely clear otherwise.

I've lived in NYC a long time, and when using a subway station I've not visited or that's been remodeled I'm often at a loss to orient myself according to the signage and find which stairs, exit, or passageway I need to take to make a connection ... I know Milton Glaser did the graphic redesign way back in the day - the look - but the implementation often leaves much to be desired. For a long time NYC'er, someone with an interest in and also a bit of background in graphics information systems, it's sobering how confusing it can be just trying to navigate the signage in the world's busiest subway ... inexcusable. Some signs are so vague one is left with two (or more) choices as to which direction to go ... flip a coin; or the signs are placed in position that renders their direction's vague. Sure, after you already _know_ the right way the signs make complete sense ... but that's not their function.
[End rant].


Marcel Duchamp's door 11 rue larrey








[Marcel Duchamp commissioned this door from a carpenter, originally part of the artist’s studio at 11 rue Larrey, Paris, this one door serves two doorways. As a result, when it swings on its hinges to close entrance to one room, it opens another, therefore defying the French proverb "A door must be either open or shut.]


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Lovegasoline said:


> OK. The difference between the edge mount and the wraparound mount is the latter has 4 tiny prongs on the mounting plate that orients it on the edge of 3/4" thick race frame. Other those 4 little prongs the two hinges are identical, or so I'm informed by Blum CS. The silhouette illustration up thread is thus accurate (my error in deciphering it) and one can see the little prongs.
> It appears that I was sold the wrong hinges (I ordered edge mount but was given wrap around; nonetheless I need to return these for 3/8" overlay screw in 38N. This store doesn't stock them, nor does Lowes. Now I need to do a search in NYC and try to locate them. I'l go forward and glue up my sink cabinet fur strip make it all work out in one way or another after I have the hinges in hand.


I see what you mean now. By the way the little prongs on the 38N hinge if they get in the way are easily broken off. My lumber supplier has someone in their mill that can't measure wood. I order wood a little thicker than 3/4 and I usually get it a little less than 7/8" thick so when I build a cabinet the faceframe is way too thick for the hinges so I just break off the prongs on the back side.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

If you have ready access to a supply of 38N355BE08 (screw-on version; 38N358B.08 press-in version) according to Blum they are the same hinge (1/2" overlay) but without the little prongs ... however if exclusively using 3/4" stock the prongs seem like they'd make it easier to get positive registration on the face frame edge and speed things up a little.


----------



## RBhoffmann (Dec 12, 2020)

Lovegasoline said:


> Thanks RBhoffman,
> But if that's the case I don't understand the specs for this hinge. Blum states the hinge with 3/8" overlay has a 1/4" protrusion. Does that mean the hinge has to be mounted with 1/4" inserted into the cabinet when the doors are closed??? This makes no sense to me. And the images in Blums' catalogue for this hinge (p.81) do not show the door inset into the cabinet by any amount.
> I'm more confused.
> 
> ???


My bad. I went to Blum and understand their idea of protrusion is how much the door sticks into the cabinet opening when the door is opened fully. Here:











Hope this helps.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Sep 27, 2009)

RBhoffman,
Yes it does. 
And Blum seems to have omitted useful data there on the catalogue page ... while for other hinges in their catalogue they _do_ include the protrusion in their technical drawings. It's unclear why they omitted it for this particular hinge even though the page includes a chart with the protrusion measurements as part of the hinge selection process.


----------



## ceramicr (7 mo ago)

Hello, Lovegasoline! In my opinion, a 38N hinge is a solid option, but it will depend on how far you will drill the hole. You need to drill it about 1/8/7 back from the border. Also, before doing any drilling, since you don't have the proper experience, I suggest you approach any good door service and consult with them about this topic. For example, you can approach these guys at https://doordesignlab.com. They gave me a lot of valuable information when I was adjusting the doors for my house.


----------

