# micron ??



## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

OK, just not knowing I figured this would be the place to ask. I just read in another thread here in the dust collection about the HP 2 hp being a 5 micron and be prepared to spend a little to get it to 1 micron. which I know the more you filter the better it is, but how important is it to get down to 1 micron for a weekend, evening woodworker? I do know thet breathing wood dust not to mention having a layer of dust on everything in the shop. not having any dust collection now, would it still be worth just getting the 5 micron?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Personally I would get the Wynn canister filter. It will get you to 1 micron and increase the effectivness of the DC system. They cost from $110-$160 for the two lowest canisters. The third is not worth it according to Wynn themselves. 

I'm on my phone and don't have the link but it's wynn enviromental filter is the 35 series.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

If you go to Bill Pentz's site, he explains that the smallest particles are the most dangerous. They are the ones that are so small, that gravity doesn't affect them, and they are the ones that cause all sorts of respitory problems. I personally wanted to protect others, more than myself, from the ultra small particles that are floating in the air. I don't want my kids or wife to have to inhale that stuff when walking thru my garage, or have any of it drift into the house.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

My first DC had 5 micron bags, and those particles eventually formed a very light coating on most stuff in the shop. I then learned that 1 micron or better is what you want, and changed the bags. That DC was replaced by one with a filter over time. So, yes! I think you want to tighter filtration.


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## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

HA HA, my shop has a heavy coating on everything right now, time to get the leaf blower after it again, a light coating would be nice


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

dat said:


> HA HA, my shop has a heavy coating on everything right now, time to get the leaf blower after it again, a light coating would be nice


no to the leafblower ! itll stir up everything and then youll end up breathing it again.

use a vacuum and a respirator


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## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

Not a good thing, but I usually turn on the 220 V chicken house fan I have in the back wall venting outside then crank up the leaf blower while wearing one of these (pictuted below) and blow it out









*3M Dual Cartridge Respirator *​


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

dat said:


> HA HA, my shop has a heavy coating on everything right now, time to get the leaf blower after it again, a light coating would be nice


Your shop mirrors mine.

George


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

The most dangerous to your health particles are in the ~1 micron range. The 5 micron stuff for the most part you just sneeze / cough out, the 1 micron stuff gets into your tissues and does nasty things. Using a 5 micron bag means all that 1 micron dust is getting picked up and pumped up even higher into the air making your dust collector effectively a dust pump. IF you want dust collection for health reasons, you really want a 1 micron or better filter. And the experts are pretty solidly in agreement on the number. Every now and again you see .5 (1/2) micron tossed about, and mind you lower filtering is good, but hard to do... Not sure about the bags, but I know for example the Wynn 35A spun bond is rated at 1 micron, that's because it stops 99.99% of dust 1 micron and larger. It is still effective at stopping well over 90% of particles at .5 microns, but since they can't claim the 4 9's as it were, Wynn advertises it as a 1 micron media... 

How important it is to pull those 1 micron particles in a low production environment all depends on your tolerance, and if you are in a shop attached to your dwelling (are other people likely to be exposed). 

I felt it was important enough, that I didn't even fire up my HF 2HP dust collector until I had the Wynn filter installed, as well as a Thien type baffle installed. I went from baffle to full on separator to avoid things smashing into the impeller, but may switch back to baffle just to get my floor space back...

You don't have to go with the higher dollar canister filter, although they certainly DO flow better than the 1 micron bags. A 1 micron bag is about $30.00 from Highland Woodworking. I would definately add a Thien baffle to keep the bag as clean as possible for as long as possible though. Even if you add a baffle, and a 1 micron bag, if you pick up the HF dust collector on the coupon, you are still out less than $200.00 which is important if your budget is squeezed like most peoples is these days...


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

I have a large cannister filter on my collecter, however I do not believe the micron size is that important.

On lathe work, the collector does not catch everything, neither on the bandsaw, on my miter saw probably about 90%. Then there is hand sanding large furniture pieces like chairs. So, if I had a 1 micron filter, or a 5 micron filter, does not really matter, as there will always be dust in the shop.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Go ahead and do some research on it. Read Bill Pentz' information on the subject and make up your own mind... Some guys feel they don't need to wear helmets. My brother in law and his new kidney thank folks like that...


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## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

dbhost said:


> Some guys feel they don't need to wear helmets. My brother in law and his new kidney thank folks like that...


Put it that way and I believe I'm gonna get the filter and put the whole thing outside


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

dbhost said:


> Go ahead and do some research on it. Read Bill Pentz' information on the subject and make up your own mind... Some guys feel they don't need to wear helmets. My brother in law and his new kidney thank folks like that...


Wearing a helmet would equate to wearing a dust mask all the time in the shop.

We get exposed to all kind of dusts all the time and while I agree Bill's site is good advice, I think he is taking it to extreme cautionary levels.

Here is a linky particle sizes, some of which all of us gets exposed to every day.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/particle-sizes-d_934.html

We are not talking about Asbestos.

If I eat Margarine, I will suffer from cancer and if I eat butter, i will suffer from Cholesterol.

There is more chance of harm, flying on a plane and sitting in close proximity to strangers, touching what they have touched and breathing what they exhale.


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## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

I'll probably end up venting it outside anyway, so far I just let it build up 'till I sweep or blow it out


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Sorry if you aren't getting my point. Hard to convey that in text... I'm not saying do it or you'll keel over from instant asbestosis, what I am saying is that if there are known risks that you can protect yourself from, why not do it?

Actually touching what they touched and breathing the same air in a cubicle environment isn't exactly safe either... Trust me, I have a couple of co workers that I have wanted to spray with Lysol during Flu season...

The concentrations of wood dust in a small, enclosed shop for example would be MUCH higher than constant exposure to to say Sea Salt in the air. (Living as close as I do to the gulf, I know exactly what it is like to be constantly exposed to sea salt...). Your individual tolerance to wood dust may vary depending on your own sensitivity, and the species of woods you work with... 

Some guys use their nose as a dust filter when woodworking, and live very long, very happy, very healthy lives, and every day when they leave the shop, they simply blow a pound of wood dust out of their nose... Some guys are lucky, some aren't... 

Oh, on the butter versus margarine thing. Butter please... It tastes better...


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Personally, I wear a mask when I sand on the lathe, together with an extraction fitting directly from my 2hp cannister collector.

The rest of the time I don't, with all my machines connected to the collection unit.

I clean my shop approximately once a month and there is always wood dust at that time.

What is the ultimate solution then, wearing a dust mask with particle and organic filter all the time in the shop?


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I would think the ultimate solution would be a clean room suit with it's own filtered air supply... 

FWIW, I tend to wear a mask when sanding on the lathe, actually ANY sanding some to think of it, I also run the overhead filter as well... Same goes with the miter saw... I had a bit of a dust collection failure with that a while back and had dust collect in the hood behind it. Examining that dust shows it is mostly very fine wood flour. I process a LOT of walnut so I go the paranoids about dust from there as well...

Other machines, drilling, mortising, table saw etc... no big deal. Hand held routing I probably should wear a mask but I don't...

I am in the process of shop cleanup now. VERY little dust in my shop except for shavings and chunks by the lathe, and a very slight film on the PVC ducting for the dust collector...


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## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

dbhost said:


> Sorry if you aren't getting my point. Hard to convey that in text...QUOTE]
> 
> I took it as don't take any chances on something if it is easily avoidable. something that doesn't take a lot to make a lot of difference in the long run is worth


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

I went the 1 micron bag route from Penn State Industries.

The only dust that gets through is smaller than 1 micron. 

BTW - The more dust on the inside of the bag, the more effective the bag is at trapping dust but less efficient at allowing air to pass through.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Sorry I haven't mentioned this yet. WillemJM is right. I agree with a good deal of Bill Pentz' advice, however he does take it completely over the top in a lot of his assertions to what I would consider overly cautious. However considering what he has gone through, it is totally understandable...

If I were to go 100% with Bill Pentz advice, I would be running a 5HP Clear Vue cyclone with 8" main duct and 6" ports on my machines. That just isn't within the realm of reasonable for me. 

I personally am uncomfortable with the 5 micron bags. That is my preference, and it is a strong one, based on my tolerance of risk, and the fact that I have known allergies, so why aggrevate them if I don't have to? Having said all that. I have the 1 micron rated canister on my DC, when I could have grabbed the .5 micron rated canister... To me, I felt there was a point of diminishing return, and that was it... 

I will admit that I don't collect from all my machines as I should (Sliding miter saw is terrible), but I try, what gets missed by the dust collector gets caught by the shop vac and respirator... 

Bill would be ashamed of me...


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Interesting thread, something to add about my personal woes with wood dust.

My father did woodworking, he was my teacher and his favorite was Imbuia (Brazilian Walnut)

As a small kid, I was highly allergic to lots of stuff, but Imbuia was the main culprit. As I was born into these conditions, medically it was not diagnosed as the cause, reason being the wood dust triggerd my immune system to react with allergic reactions to every possible test for causes.

Long story short, I ended up with Nephritis (inflamation of the nephrons in the kidneys caused by auto immune disorders) at nine years old, in hospital for a solid three months as the result. From there onwards, it was an uphill battle. After leaving home, much later in life, we found out that allergies return, every time I spend time with dad in the shop and Imbuia was identified as the culprit. My eyes would swell, nose start running etc.

Somehow, much later in life I completely outgrew the reaction, no problems today and my health is in the very top percentile for my age.

From my own experience, I believe the way ones immune system reacts to wood dust is much more important than inhaling dust particles which trigger nothing. For those conditions, no collection system, or even a mask will prevent detremental results.


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## dat (Nov 11, 2010)

I have allergies that get flared up at times. dust no matter how much is filtered could make them bad.

I think I'm more for just trying to keep the big stuff in one central laocation for dumping out. I'm sure no high production dust/ chip maker. my shop is used for wood/ hobbies/ sitting by the heater in the winter/ listening to the radio getting away from it all/ who knows what. a little dust isn't bad, but the piles of sawdust make for more work when moving stuff around


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