# Plywood, stains, lacquer, and such.



## ASB1583 (Mar 1, 2014)

Well I am going to use this post to get a few questions out there for y'all to chime in on. 

I am making projects out of plywood. I have a little stock of sanded burch right now but found online that Home Depot sells project panel plywood in a variety domestic wood options.

First posed question. This birch is not staining too well. What types of plywood stain well. I would like something that some grain jumps out after stained. 

And second question. What the hell is the difference between lacquer and poly? Which one and which type (spray/brush) should I use. The size of my projects are equivalent to the size of a toilet seat. 

Any help?

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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*plywood doesn't stain evenly...*

In my experience plywood doesn't take a stain evenly, especially Oak. This is because the thin layer of Oak, Birch etc is immediately on top of a layer of glue with is non porous. The stain won't penetrate that glue like it will real wood. It may depend on the type of stain you use, I donno? You may have to experiment with different types as well as a wood conditioner.

As far as the difference between poly and lacquer, it's in the solvent that carries the solids. Poly which is oil based, uses mineral spirits as a solvent. Lacquers user lacquer thinners, a more highly volatile solvent which is more "powerful". Either type can be had in water based as well. Lacquer is a faster drying finish, since it is more volatile and it is usually sprayed on.

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Flexner on Finishing: Finally - Answers to Your Wood Finishing Fears & Frustrations: Bob Flexner: 9781440308871: Amazon.com: Books


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ASB1583 said:


> Well I am going to use this post to get a few questions out there for y'all to chime in on.
> 
> I am making projects out of plywood. I have a little stock of sanded burch right now but found online that Home Depot sells project panel plywood in a variety domestic wood options.
> 
> ...


When asking questions on an open forum you will get a variety of answers. In my experience, hardwood plywoods stain very well, and make for very fine furniture type finishes. It can be stained/dyed to match solid wood. It doesn't matter that the veneer face is thin, as the colorization process, either with stains or dyes just colors the face veneer. It has very little to do with what the veneer is glued to. 

Red Oak stains easily with any stain, either a wipe on/wipe off oil base stain, a waterbase stain or dye, or an alcohol base dye stain. Waterbase stains will have a grain raising effect, but that gets taken care of with the normal finishing schedule and the sanding between topcoats. Any species of hardwood faced veneer plywood can be stained and finished with beautiful results as long as you are familiar with the proper methods for the species you are using.

As for finishes, most common are oil base, which can have a mineral spirits or Naptha as a solvent. These finishes are best made as a wipe on. They can be sprayed, but they are heavily bodied and difficult to keep from running.

Lacquer finishes use lacquer thinner as a solvent, and are best sprayed, and dry very fast. It can be made as a brush/wipe on with adding a retarder.

Water base polyurethanes have become IMO as durable as most topcoats and dry almost as fast as lacquer finishes, and is an easy clean up. These finishes stay clear. Those finishes with those solvents as their base are not mixable. Some can be modified, and understanding how that is done takes an understanding of what is used, and how the finish gets modified.








 








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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*forgot to mention ...the plywood!*

The quality of the plywood available these days at the home stores is not what it was years ago, when the veneers were thicker. The glue layer under a thin layer of veneer, home store variety, will be an issue in my experience. A good quality cabinet grade plywood will not have this issue and will stain more evenly. So it depends on where you get it and what grade it is for the best results.

Here's a good article explaning:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/basics/choose_the_right_plywood

From the article:
Many woodworkers object on principle to using anything but veneer-core plywood. One of the big drawbacks to veneer-core plywood often won’t appear until finishing. If the veneer is thin, and the core uneven, this unevenness will telegraph through and appear in the face veneer. Because the veneer is so thin, this cannot be sanded out. MDF and particleboard cores, in spite of being weaker structurally, are flatter and more consistent. If you can work around the structural issues, and overcome your prejudice, you can achieve much better finishes, and easier joinery if you use MDF or particleboard cores.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

That article discusses the substrate under the veneer. With a veneer core plywood it's possible to get an uneven surface for the face veneer. What becomes obvious when finishing is that uneveness. The article states it can't be sanded out (to flatten) the highs and lows if any. 

It has nothing to do with a glue line, or that the veneer is so thin it won't stain properly.








 








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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*my experince with home store plywood*

As I stated the home store plywood has very thin veneers and does not stain evenly. I found that out recently after assembling these panels in a Mission style headboard. It took several applications of stain, removing them with thinner, reapplying to get this as close as it is. I'm not happy with the results but it's as good as I good get it:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Your problem was likely a preparation issue. How well sanded and with what grit. QS Oak can be a finishers dilemma...even for a pro. Try some plain slice A2 veneer core Red Oak, and you'll see a big difference.








 








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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it's not the QS Oak, it's the plywood!*



cabinetman said:


> Your problem was likely a preparation issue. How well sanded and with what grit. QS Oak can be a finishers dilemma...even for a pro. Try some plain slice A2 veneer core Red Oak, and you'll see a big difference..


That plywood is not QS, regardless....and it's a little late for this project to be changing out the plywood panels which are glued in.
It's just ****ty plywood, no other way to put it, and my mistake for not thinking it out more. So, beware of where you get your plywood and what grade it is as I stated earlier. Pay more to get a better grade.:yes:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> That plywood is not QS, regardless....and it's a little late for this project to be changing out the plywood panels which are glued in.
> It's just ****ty plywood, no other way to put it, and my mistake for not thinking it out more. So, beware of where you get your plywood and what grade it is as I stated earlier. Pay more to get a better grade.:yes:


The plywood looks like the rotary cut stuff at the box store. The A2 plain slice veneer core plywood would have looked entirely different. If you wanted to maintain the QS look, you could have just veneered your own stock. Or, spend the extra money and buy QS plywood.








 








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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ASB1583 said:


> Well I am going to use this post to get a few questions out there for y'all to chime in on.
> 
> I am making projects out of plywood. I have a little stock of sanded burch right now but found online that Home Depot sells project panel plywood in a variety domestic wood options.
> 
> ...


Different kinds of wood need to be finished different ways and plywood is no exception. Birch is prone to blotching, in which the wood varies in density from place to place and the softer areas soak up more stain and get darker. The solution is to use a wood conditioner prior to staining. The conditioner is a sealer so in order to get the color you want you need a little darker stain using the conditioner than you would otherwise. Another option is to use a dye stain. It is sprayed on at low pressure and stains very uniform. 

The difference between lacquer and poly is the resins it is made of. There are different kinds of lacquer but the ones sold in the box stores are a nitrocellulose lacquer where it is made from dissolving cotton fibers which makes the coating. Since it is mixed with lacquer thinner it dries very quickly and if you have the means of spraying can be about the easiest finishes you can use. The down side is since it is made from cotton it is prone to yellow as it ages and isn't suited for light colored woods. It also isn't very water resistant. Polyurethane is made from plastic and urethane resins. The "poly" in the name comes from polymer. The oil based version is the most durable however is slow drying and usually takes overnight drying times between coats. Since it is slow drying it can be brushed or wiped on. Because of the oils in the polyurethane it also is prone to yellow as it ages and not suited for light colored woods. The water based polyurethane is a faster drying finish which is difficult to apply by hand. It really needs to be sprayed like lacquer. Since it is water based it raises the grain of the wood and takes a lot more sanding between coats to smooth the finish. It's also a lot thinner and takes more coats to achieve the same thickness of finish. It remains clear and is suited for light colored woods. Both the oil base and water base poly since it is a plastic is water resistant.


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