# the most basic question ever at this forum



## fperez87 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hello, I'm planning to start building a table for my department and I realized I know nothing about joining wood. So, I looked for a design I would like to copy and when I took a closer look to the joints I noticed I don't have a clue about how to do that. basically it's about joining 2 long pieces of wood cut in 45º all the way long. I attached a terrible picture of the table joints (I did not find a good one) so you can see what I'm taking about.

how to do that? does it have a particular name??

thanks a lot!

Frank


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

That picture looks like a factory made piece, laminate (formica) or melamine with mitered laminate or PVC edge-banding?
Hard to say from that picture but the grain on the top doesn't look like it's the same piece of solid wood as the edge which would be end grain.
The grain on a table top (with drawers) normally runs side to side, this appears to be front to back?


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

It's just a mitered edge joint, they can be tricky. Maybe you can just use a rabbeted joint instead, depending on the design.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

More basic than your question, what tools and equipment do you have? How you join wood would largely depend on the tools you have. The photo appears to be maple wood that has been mitered on a table saw and glued together. If you are just getting into woodworking the first step would be for you to acquire a table saw. I would get at least a contractor size saw, not one of these table top models.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

What kind of department is it for which you will be building the table? Will the department budget allow for the purchase of tools? Will this table be used where it is visible to the public? Do they have a budget for you to go to wood working classes before starting the project?

Many, many questions.

George


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

Still looks fishy to me, edge doesn't look like end grain and it's an unorthodox way to make a table. 
Looks "Chinese factory" to me, there are easier and stronger ways to build your first table.


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## fperez87 (Jun 26, 2013)

thanks everyone for you replies!! Your suggestions have been very useful for me. About the table, it was made by a local wood workshop (I live in Chile) and it has a very interesting design (although it will not be easy to make). I'll upload a picture of the table. About the department, I was talking about my flat (sorry if i was not clear with that, sorry for my english), and I have a room where I can put the tools. About the equipment... I don't have much really, I'm planning to buy a table saw and a few more things. Working on this table is just an excuse to start working wood. 

thank you all! and I'm really opened hear some advise from you before I start with this!

Frank


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

Now that's a picture, it is real wood.
Nice design, difficult build.
If you want to make that you're going to need some equipment.
To make that with the drawer the way it is, you'll need a planer, router, clamps, table saw, sander, sprayer of some sort for starters.
If you modify it it so the drawer and dividers are 3/4" thick you can buy dimensioned lumber and skip the planer.


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## Itchytoe (Dec 17, 2011)

Ignoring that it may or may not be solid wood and other things that don't really matter, the joint that you're referring to is just two pieces of wood, cut at a 45 degree angle and glued together. You can get a 45 degree cut on a table saw, or with router bits. Personally, I'd use a router bit because my 30 year old HF table saw has a bad bearing and wobbles which produces a poor cut. If you have a decent table saw, that would be easier in my opinion.

What kind of table are you talking about making? One like in the picture, or a dining table?


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

The difficulty in this build is getting the inside and outside box to fit perfectly because they did it with no metal drawer slides.
It is made with solid wood, which would have to be very dry and stay very dry in order for the drawer to slide smoothly.
Even with plywood and edge-banding this has to fit perfect or be modified with mechanical slides, etc.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

You can buy this book on Amazon pretty cheap. It is a great investment. 



 Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*here's what I see...*

2 identical open ended boxes, and a sliding drawer that connects them. Pretty simple actually. The boxes can be on casters and the drawer slides made of hardwood or UHM plastic, or aluminum track. 
They need not be "ultra precise" for the boxes to slide on the rails, just a nice slip fit. 
The boxes can be made with miters, rabbets or butted depending on the look you want. A butted joint will leave an exposed edge, a miter joint will conceal both edges and a rabbet will show a narrow edge.

You can use solid wood glued into flat panels, plastic laminate over a particle board or plywood or just plywood with a thin strip capping the exposed edge.

You will need a table saw at minimum to bevel the edges for the miter joints or to cut the panels precisely and square for rabbets or butt joints. The back can be recessed in a rabbet. The drawer can be plywood or hardwood on the sides and plywood in the bottom.

A good sketch showing the construction details, dimensions and sizes will be very helpful. :yes:


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> 2 identical open ended boxes, and a sliding drawer that connects them. Pretty simple actually.
> 
> I agree, the "idea" is simple, but precision is absolutely essential.
> For a guy to go out and buy equipment he's never used and actually miter this accurately together and get the thing to work is entirely another matter.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*precision miter are difficult for sure*

That's why I suggested rabbets or butt joints. If edge banding is used it can "appear" to be mitered even if the joint itself is a lap, rabbet or butt. :smile:


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

I am all for helping people on this forum, but a totally inexperienced person is going to have a very rough time making this piece with any techniques.
This guy is just considering buying his first table saw.
I know I couldn't make and then put a finish on this before I had a few years of experience.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> That's why I suggested rabbets or butt joints. If edge banding is used it can "appear" to be mitered even if the joint itself is a lap, rabbet or butt. :smile:


How do you make a joint 'appear' mitered with a rabbet or butt, using edge banding?

How would a 90 degree corner as pictured be done with a 'lap'?


















.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

*Bump*



woodnthings said:


> That's why I suggested rabbets or butt joints. If edge banding is used it can "appear" to be mitered even if the joint itself is a lap, rabbet or butt. :smile:


How do you make a joint 'appear' mitered with a rabbet or butt, using edge banding?

How would a 90 degree corner as pictured be done with a 'lap'?


















.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Unless I'm missing something the edge banding would be mitered to extend over or "lap" the rabbet or butt joint and appear as a mitered joint.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Yup*



jharris2 said:


> Unless I'm missing something the edge banding would be mitered to extend over or "lap" the rabbet or butt joint and "appear" as a mitered joint.


Quotation marks added by edit..... 

The miter would appear on the front edge, not on the side. The side would have an exposed thin edge. A lock rabbet could be used. All I'm saying is there are other ways to build the boxes to avoid a "precision" bevel cut. Will it look identical to the photo, No, but it won't be as difficult to make. The issue as I understand it, is to be able to make or build the boxes with a minimum of skills, tools and or machinery.... which otherwise would be required to make perfect long edge 45 degree bevels. :yes:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

*Nope*



woodnthings said:


> Quotation marks added by edit.....
> 
> The miter would appear on the front edge, not on the side. The side would have an exposed thin edge. A lock rabbet could be used. All I'm saying is there are other ways to build the boxes to avoid a "precision" bevel cut. Will it look identical to the photo, No, but it won't be as difficult to make. The issue as I understand it, is to be able to make or build the boxes with a minimum of skills, tools and or machinery.... which otherwise would be required to make perfect long edge 45 degree bevels. :yes:


What you are describing doesn't answer the OP's question. The question is what joinery would be used to create the look in the posted picture. That means to the long edges. You could say that "lapping" the ends to look like a miter, but that's not what you said. Your words were...*If edge banding is used it can "appear" to be mitered even if the joint itself is a lap, rabbet or butt*. 

You stated lap/rabbet/butt joints as choices. For a 90 degree corner, "a "lap" joint is an incorrect guess. A butt or a rabbet could be used, but would not give the long edge the look the OP wants for the long edge and the ends. So, why suggest it? A 45 miter would be the choice to provide both areas the look he wants., A lock miter (if done perfectly) would take care of the long edge, and the ends could be edged, to appear as a miter.

What we are suggesting is a method that can be done simply with minimum tools. There is a way to do the long edges using a blind spline rabbet, to give a clean look to the long edges. The ends can be edged.

























.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that's exactly what I had in mind*

The front edge, inside the box would/could have a mitered strip applied...... " The miter would appear on the front edge, not on the side. The side would have an exposed thin edge"......... 
Mitered edge banding on the inside:









It was either try to describe it, make a rough sketch or make a mockup in the shop. I went with a verbal description because I couldn't find an exact image of what I had in mind. This comes close, but the rabbet needs to be deeper so the exposed edge is thinner...


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

If we're going to help a beginner, I think it's necessary to tell him everything.
Whether he wants it exactly like the picture or not, he needs to know how precise it has to fit to work with no hardware.
This means techniques for gluing it up so it comes out square, etc.
If i were going to try this I'd build the outside all at once for continuity/wood match where it buts when closed.
Then score and saw it in half.
Then I have an exact measurement for the inner drawer, etc.
If we haven't intimidated the original poster yet, he needs to send a picture of how the base is built!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> It was either try to describe it, make a rough sketch or make a mockup in the shop. I went with a verbal description because I couldn't find an exact image of what I had in mind. This comes close, but the rabbet need to be deeper so the exposed edge is thinner...


You couldn't find the image that I drew, as it is not a common procedure. It's a custom one that I've used many times especially with plywood cabinetry. I've shown this on prior occasions, to share one of the tricks of the trade.


















.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

If you want a true mitered joint, reinforcing the joint with biscuits or a spline is recommended. Look up "biscuit machine" for more info.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*no skills, no tools..yet*



fperez87 said:


> Hello, I'm planning to start building a table for my department and *I realized I know nothing about joining wood.* So, I looked for a design I would like to copy and when I took a closer look to the joints I noticed I don't have a clue about how to do that. basically it's about joining 2 long pieces of wood cut in 45º all the way long. I attached a terrible picture of the table joints (I did not find a good one) so you can see what I'm taking about.
> 
> how to do that? does it have a particular name??
> 
> ...





fperez87 said:


> thanks everyone for you replies!! Your suggestions have been very useful for me. About the table, it was made by a local wood workshop (I live in Chile) and it has a very interesting design (although it will not be easy to make). I'll upload a picture of the table. About the department, I was talking about my flat (sorry if i was not clear with that, sorry for my english), and I have a room where I can put the tools. A*bout the equipment... I don't have much really, I'm planning to buy a table saw *and a few more things. Working on this table is just an excuse to start working wood.
> 
> thank you all! and I'm really opened hear some advise from you before I start with this!
> 
> Frank



I think a precision long edge miter/bevel is beyond the capability of this wanna be woodworker. If he can get it made a a local woodshop then the splined miter is a possibility. As of now he doesn't even have a table saw, much less the extension and side support table to create that joint. :no:




woodnthings said:


> That's why I suggested rabbets or butt joints. If edge banding is used it can "appear" to be mitered even if the joint itself is a lap, rabbet or butt. :smile:


Like this:










And this:









A reply would be helpful at this point......


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> If edge banding is used it can "appear" to be mitered even if the joint itself is a* lap*, rabbet or butt. :smile:


Maybe you could explain how a 90 degree long joint can be a "lap joint". You haven't addressed that yet. Maybe I'm missing something. I brought this up in post #20.


















.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*we have a different interpretaion...symantics*

The edge of the rabbet laps over the other piece. It is NOT a parallel half lap used to join to similar thicknesses of material. If I have used the term incorrectly, please forgive me cabinetman.... :notworthy:

When 2 pieces are joined at 90 degrees using a rabbet there is a "lap" in my opinion...... maybe also a "lapse"..... I donno? :blink:


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## dt1050 (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm new to wood working as well, I am just going to say before ya go diving into a table like that your gonna need practice, so build a few picture frames or something small like that to get ya used to your equipment and cutting miters joints. it may seem simple enough, buy a table and set it up and rip of a nice joint...but it takes some practice and patients. as stated above your gonna need a biscuit or some thing simler to add strength to your joints. start off using some scrap wood or pine, before diving into a nice piece of walnut,oak, etc. as for your original quiestion, those are just a miter joint joining the corners. with humidity and temp changes I would go with a aluminum drawer slide. good luck. dt


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