# Improving bookcase plan



## wsommariva (Jan 3, 2010)

I need to build a bookcase similiar to one sold at a national retailer. "Plans" were posted on a site and it gave dimensions, etc.

It's a substantial bookcase and the joinery method recommended bothers me. They say glue and nails. So, I'll change that to tongue and dado for the shelves and pocket hole screws for the top and base. They do not mention wood type. Since it will be painted, I'm thinking about 3/4 stock pine . Is there a better wood to use?

Thanks


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

wsommariva said:


> I need to build a bookcase similiar to one sold at a national retailer. "Plans" were posted on a site and it gave dimensions, etc.
> 
> It's a substantial bookcase and the joinery method recommended bothers me. They say glue and nails. So, I'll change that to tongue and dado for the shelves and pocket hole screws for the top and base. They do not mention wood type. Since it will be painted, I'm thinking about 3/4 stock pine . Is there a better wood to use?
> 
> Thanks


Anything is better than Pine, but Pine will work. There are better methods than pocket screws.












 









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## wsommariva (Jan 3, 2010)

Poplar? This is a child's bookcase. Painted.

I figure that pocket screws are better than glue and nails.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

You didn't post a link or pic.

If painted, I would use a veneer plywood, dadoes for shelves. :smile:


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## wsommariva (Jan 3, 2010)

I am using dados for the shelves. I can't use plywood as the edges would show. And I'm limited to what Home depot sells.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

wsommariva said:


> I am using dados for the shelves. I can't use plywood as the edges would show. And I'm limited to what Home depot sells.


Home Depot sells veneer edge tape. Poplar would be better than pine. If your going with pocket there no good without glue


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## wsommariva (Jan 3, 2010)

Good to know about the pockets; I thought glue was not needed. Thank you. 

Would MDF be better?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

wsommariva said:


> Poplar? This is a child's bookcase. Painted.
> 
> I figure that pocket screws are better than glue and nails.


Casework is not usually done with lumber. Sounds like you have made up your mind. Pocket screws are a quick form of a butt joint, which is the least desirable, and IMO, junk joinery.












 









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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

wsommariva said:


> Would MDF be better?


 
IMO, MDF is garbage, a poplar face frame and shelf edgeing, will provide a great substrate for paint. :smile:


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## wsommariva (Jan 3, 2010)

Ok, poplar it is then. Since my wife bought me a pocket jig for Christmas I must use it for something.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

MDF has it's place but not in a bookcase in my opinion and absolutly not with pocket screws. Use plywood casing and poplar face frame and shelf banding. You didn't say (or I missed it) how large this thing is to be. You may want to watch for shelf sag. May find this link helpful:
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm
:smile:


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Pocket screws are fine as you're building a painted bookshelf.

Poplar is a really good choice. 

The pocket screw is a clamping device that you will leave in place. While the pocket screw is looked down upon in fine woodworking applications, for your project it will do just fine.

From experience with pocket screws and poplar in a face frame, I would suggest that you use Titebond III. I had to break apart an end grain to edge grain joint after about 45 minutes. The glued end grain actually pulled some of the edge grain off when the joint broke.


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## wsommariva (Jan 3, 2010)

Thank you both.

42 inches long. 38 inches tall. I now understand that plywood is better for cabinets. But in this case I'll have no face frame trim to hide edges. And I'm not concerned about wood cost. Three shelves - that I will join using dados, glue and brads. I'll use the pocket screws to attach the verticle pieces that are between the shelves.

I always use Titebond III.

I used the sagalator link and if I understand it correctly, I don't have a sag problem.


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## WANNAFARM2 (Dec 5, 2009)

What is the best was to attach edging to the front of the shelf to acheive the best possible amount of strength and support?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

WANNAFARM2 said:


> What is the best was to attach edging to the front of the shelf to acheive the best possible amount of strength and support?


Glue and clamps.












 









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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

WANNAFARM2 said:


> What is the best was to attach edging to the front of the shelf to acheive the best possible amount of strength and support?


I agree glue and clamps is the fastest way, I respectfully disagree that it is the best;
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-pc-1-2-SH-Edg...496069278?pt=Routers_Bits&hash=item20b637e29e

Just don't put the tongue on the plywood, grain is to weak.

:yes:


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## WANNAFARM2 (Dec 5, 2009)

jschaben said:


> I agree glue and clamps is the fastest way, I respectfully disagree that it is the best;
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2-pc-1-2-SH-Edg...496069278?pt=Routers_Bits&hash=item20b637e29e
> 
> Just don't put the tongue on the plywood, grain is to weak.
> ...


I am making cabinets for the garage and need the most strength I can get. I was considering using pockethole screws. Is this a good method? The hole would be on the underside of the shelf and will not be visible as I am wanting to use 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 wide edging to gain the best support for alot of weight. 

I may have to invest in a router bit set like the one you posted in the near future.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

WANNAFARM2 said:


> I am making cabinets for the garage and need the most strength I can get. I was considering using pockethole screws. Is this a good method? The hole would be on the underside of the shelf and will not be visible as I am wanting to use 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 wide edging to gain the best support for alot of weight.
> 
> I may have to invest in a router bit set like the one you posted in the near future.


As long as your asking for opinions I seldom have a shortage of those:icon_smile:. If your making the cabinets out of plywood, which for garage cabinets, I suspect you are, I would use dado or locking rabbet/dado joints. Pocket hole screws can function as surrogate clamps but not as the primary joinery.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

WANNAFARM2 said:


> I am making cabinets for the garage and need the most strength I can get. I was considering using pockethole screws. Is this a good method? The hole would be on the underside of the shelf and will not be visible as I am wanting to use 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 wide edging to gain the best support for alot of weight.
> 
> I may have to invest in a router bit set like the one you posted in the near future.



Pocket hole screws will not be as predictable or as efficient as just glue and clamps. IMO, they would be inferior. With just glue and clamps, you would have a heckuva time breaking the edge off with a Crescent wrench.

As for the bit set, it's a cool idea, but you could get tear out, or a cracked tongue, and it's possible to get less than a perfect fit. If you want to try it out for the experience, they aren't cheap. I think I used my set just a few times.












 









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## WANNAFARM2 (Dec 5, 2009)

jschaben said:


> As long as your asking for opinions I seldom have a shortage of those:icon_smile:. If your making the cabinets out of plywood, which for garage cabinets, I suspect you are, I would use dado or locking rabbet/dado joints. Pocket hole screws can function as surrogate clamps but not as the primary joinery.


I was planning on glueing and clamping and than using the pocket holes screws, or even biscuits?, as additional re-enforcement.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

WANNAFARM2 said:


> I was planning on glueing and clamping and than using the pocket holes screws, or even biscuits?, as additional re-enforcement.


 
If you're glueing and clamping, pocket screws are just an unneccessary activity/expense. I'm not a huge fan of pocket screws anyway. I've looked some of the plans put out by Kreg and they are obviously put together by marketeers selling screws. The stuff looks like swiss cheese. They have their uses but I don't think they are an ultimate solution by any means. They are nice if you have something difficult to clamp or not enough clamps or something like that. JMHO


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## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

IMHO, biscuits are great for alignment. Not so great as reinforcement.
Norm even changed his mind about the strength added to a joint with biscuits.


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## Klag (Jan 5, 2011)

there isn't anything wrong with pocket screw joinery...they have their place. some places are better than others....I use them for building face frames....and attaching back nailers....very strong. High quality joinery is nice but not always neccesary or cost affective....Some of you Old schoolers may disagree...but I have used them for many years without complaints. 

sorry for the defensive stance coming from a newbie to this board....however I am not a newbie to woodworking and have been eating sawdust for almost 30 yrs. I feel I have knowledge to impart and willing to share my experiences.

I say do with what you are comfortable doing or work within your capabilities and learn from your experience


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