# New DC system plan - suggestions pls



## howarddavidp (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello,

Here is my 1st draft of a DC system. My rough dimensions are 25' x 15', my drawing is not to scale. I am planning on using the HF DC, 4" main pipe, will step down with the flex pipe to each machine. I have the blast gates right off the main pipe, but this can be changed if needed. My ceiling is 10'.

My table saw has 2 DC ports, one of the bottom, and one above the blade guard, so I was going to run 2 to that device.

The blue objects are my work benches, red are my tools, black is the walls, grey the doors, and green is my PVC pipe. I have more room behind my TS, the drawing is not to scale.

This is my 1st crack at this, so I am open to suggestions. I plan to run 4" blast gates, and 4" pipe everywhere else. In the back of my shop, I have a utility room/closet which is where I plan to put the DC to contain any noise. On the general purpose bench, I plan to just have a port there to use with orbital sanders and other hand tools, etc.

Dave


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

If your blast gates are off the main pipe, how are you going to reach them to operate them?


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## howarddavidp (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello,

I was going to use my step ladder, or I could move them farther down the pipe to within my reach and not use the step ladder. I thought the closer to the main pipe, the less suction I would lose.

Dave


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Possibly, but if you have to dig out a stepladder, climb up, open or close a gate, blah blah blah every single time you go through a configuration change, chances are extremely high you will eventually just avoid using them at all...

You would be far better off putting the blast gates within easy reach for you to open and close them. The easier a task is to do, the more likely you are to do it...


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Oh, FWIW, you will want your branch circuits going out at 45 degree angles if possible. The less bends and bumps you have in the system, the better the air will flow...


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

My first thoughts were 1) loose the 90° el's and tees. If you need to cut over 90° use 2 45's with a short piece of straight in between. 2 blast gates near the tools, their location will have no impact on air flow. Not asked but: make you own gates, the store bought (plastic) one reduce the diameter of the pipe, and the slides get clogged with dust over time. You didn't mention which HF DC, I'm guessing (hoping) it's the larger one.


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## TMA Woodworks (Apr 23, 2010)

Hi Dave,

I agree with cutting down the 90's to soften the turns. It makes a huge difference. I did have collection points for all my tools but I have found that some, like a miter saw is an uphill battle. I no longer use that one because I found it useless. If you have some ideas on collecting for that though I am all ears. I always like new ideas. On thing I did on mine was make a couple of general collection points. That is for things like my plate joiner, sander and other things that like to put fine dust in the air. The other reason I have some general points are for my mobile tools. My band saw shaper and thickness planer all use the same general point. I made it so I have one piece of flex hose with quick connects that fit all of the tools. I too, used the HF dust collector and I used 4" pvc pipe. If you ever hook up a tool that moves a lot of chips like a planer you will want to ground the system. No it won't blow up on you but it will give a nasty static shock when you least expect it.

Bob


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## howarddavidp (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello,


Thanks for the advise, I read about using 45' angles in place of the 90' ones, which I will do.

I can easily move the Blast gates lower, closer to where to tools are.

I am going with the BIG HF DC, not the small one. I plan to use 4" PVC all the way to the tools, then step it down after the gate. 

I was planning on using the 4" aluminum gates from WC:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2000899/2169/4-aluminum-blast-gate.aspx

All metal, I figured it would last longer.

Dave


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## howarddavidp (Jun 12, 2012)

Here is my update, with 45' angles (will not have any 90', even is picture still has some). Gates have been moved down to where the tools are.

As for mitre collection, my HF 10" saw has a bag on the end of the top piece, and it always fills up. I also considered doing a bottom gravity feed below the saw, like a table saw has to collect more dust. While it would not get all of it, it would get more than the saw mounted collector.

Yes, I am going with the 2HP Harbor Freight unit.

Dave


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## TMA Woodworks (Apr 23, 2010)

Looks good Dave!!

Let me know how your miter saw works out. I had a bin that all the chips fell into and a hose on the dust port. Where my system went south is the back of the saw would throw chips. I had a screen that would direct the chips to the bin but that only seems to work when I was making a 90 degree cut. Any time I had a miter cut the chips went everywhere. Since what I used the miter saw was mainly for miter cuts I gave up. So I am very interested if you come up with a solution. 

Bob


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## Froglips (May 29, 2012)

*Miter saw solution*

Wish I could say this was my idea...but it is still a great solution.

http://www.woodsmithtips.com/2012/0...dsmithTips&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=6144


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I'd say your update is much better, should be a very serviceable system, Remember to use as little flex as possible when hooking up the machines, and don't be put off by puny ports on any machines, if at all possible change them to the duct size. Good luck, think it will work out well.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Dave, 

I'm not sure where your from, but if you live near a mills fleet farm, they have the metal blast gates for 8 bucks each. 


Whats been everyones experience with plastic ones.....they're 2 bucks each vs 8......I can replace one here or there if they're not complete junk for that price....


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

i like your second version, as it has a gate open all the time (ts). I don't think it is good for a dc unit to be connected to all gates, that may all be closed. This will put undue strain on the motor.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

TimPa said:


> i like your second version, as it has a gate open all the time (ts). I don't think it is good for a dc unit to be connected to all gates, that may all be closed. This will put undue strain on the motor.


That's a common misconception. A DC running with all the gates closed actually has the motor loafing along. With no air hitting the impeller there's nothing to put a load on the motor...it's more or less freewheeling (kind of like the difference between walking on land and then walking in water). This is proven easily with an amp meter. Observe the amps with all the gates open (that will be maximum load), and then observe the amps with all the gates closed, there should be a big difference, and a lot less amps. I think the misconception mostly comes from the noise when the gates are all closed...it does sound like the thing is about to blow up.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

howarddavidp said:


> Here is my update, with 45' angles (will not have any 90', even is picture still has some). Gates have been moved down to where the tools are.
> 
> As for mitre collection, my HF 10" saw has a bag on the end of the top piece, and it always fills up. I also considered doing a bottom gravity feed below the saw, like a table saw has to collect more dust. While it would not get all of it, it would get more than the saw mounted collector.
> 
> ...


That looks MUCH better than your first drawing... 

On the Miter Saw thing... I have the HF 12" slider, the bigger, messier brother to your saw. I am in the process of building a proper miter station for it, complete with a dust hood. The OEM bag is worse than useless. I have 2.5" hose hooked up to it, but that is too big. I need to dig up some 1.25" hose to run into the dust port. I saw a guy do this with a Bosch slider. Just make sure you have enough hose in there that the hose for the top side drops into your 4" port and stays there. The vacum from the 4" will keep the line cleared... I had a reducer that connected a 2.5" hose to the saw, it got in the way, a LOT... 

On the table saw. I find myself far more worried about sawdust above the table than below. Above is where I breathe, below I can always vacum out before everything gets gunked up...

FWIW, if you are anything like me, you will eventually want to figure out better dust control for that Ridgid sander. Nice machine, but it sure can spew dust into the air!


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## howarddavidp (Jun 12, 2012)

*Finished my system, heck yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Pics:
https://plus.google.com/photos/10601...13864307334577 


OR FLICKR link in case above does not work:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157631289540252/


Wow, what a weekend!!!!!!!!!!

My dust collection system is now complete. I thought I would spend somewhere around $100 for the PVC, and the total came out to be around $300-$350. That was with all the clamps, angle pieces, reducers, blast gates, pipe tape, and other odds and ends to get this system up and operational. Considering I spent $150 for the Harbor Freight 2HP unit, this was not what I expected. Perhaps I could have saved if I used smaller diameter tubes, or used the cheaper PVC type tubes, but I bought what I thought was best, and the systems works better than expected. The suction is better than my 5HP Shop-Vac at ANY of the collection points, and I have not even sealed all the joints with duct tape yet.

While the money was off for the PVC, so was the installation time as well. I expected to spend 3-4 hours, a Saturday morning perhaps, setting all the PVC up. The ACTUAL time was closer to 20 hours; I started Friday evening and did not finish-finish until Sunday at 1800.

The biggest time sink was going into the attic and making the pipe clamps attach to rafter cross boards. My attic had no boards to walk on prior to me going up there to do this, so I had to build a walkway and work supports so I could screw the boards in place to hold the pipe clamps. Not to mention I was scared I would come crashing through the ceiling from slipping, this was by far the hardest part. I also spent a lot of time loosening the clamps after my first install, as I made them so tight that I had no play to make the pipes come together. So, I mounted the pipe, then I had to loosen them to made adjustments, then I had to tighten them again about 80%, and then I had to make the final tightening adjustments once everything was fit and working. In fact, I might even tighten 1 more time next weekend to get the pipes completely flush against the ceiling (they are about ½ in from it now). I have a small 3’x3’ hole to access my attic, so it is not easy at 6’2” to get in and out of there. Perhaps if I was 5’7” tall this would have gone easier.

The suctions is great, everything worked once I turn the system on, and the furthest collection point is very strong and will be my dustpan on the floor once I go buy the attachment for that.
Since I am in a rental house, I choose not to cut into the walls, and the ceiling holes are only ½” so I can patch them easily when I move out. I ran the pipe through the small window in the utility room in the back of the carport, and I will make a fitted piece of plywood and paint it to match so I can completely contain the DC system in this room and not see it or hear any noise. The other BIG surprise was how quiet the unit runs. I do not have any tools that make more noise than this DC. In fact, it is the quietest piece of power equipment I own. It makes less noise than a standard car idling.

The assembly of the DC unit took 15 mins. and was super easy. I did not even follow instructions; I looked the picture on the box and took it from there. There really was nothing to it, which was a relief because I was spent after spending all weekend climbing around and mounting the pipes.

One note on the blast gates: The cheap plastic Woodcraft $5(on sale) 4” gates need to be modified to work correctly. If you apply any force to them, they split down the middle right where they are assembled. While they snap right back together, if you plan to use these anywhere that will apply the least amount of pressure, they will quickly come apart. Luckily, the fix is easy and you just install 6 bolts around the edges and it keeps them together. I have provided pictures of mine after modification. I used the metal gates on the main parts system, and I saved money and used the plastic gates by the tools. All my gates are 4”, however you can use a 4” gate with either 3” or 4” pipe. It is just a matter of where the gates will go: inside or outside the pipe. For the 3” pipe, it goes inside of the gate, for 4” pipe it goes outside of the gate. The HF collector can use either the 4” pipe for 1 connection, like how I did mine, or you can use the supplied Y-attachment and run 2 x 3” pipes. Most of my system uses 4” pipe, but I used 3” pipe for the table saw & workbench loop. There is a Y-fitting above my table saw for when I plan to buy a Shark Guard that has provisions to collect dust from above the blade via their guard. I have not purchased this yet, but I still installed a Y-adapter and then plugged it up so I can easily add it latter.

Dave


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

your link doesn't work.......


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

Fred Hargis said:


> That's a common misconception. A DC running with all the gates closed actually has the motor loafing along. With no air hitting the impeller there's nothing to put a load on the motor...it's more or less freewheeling (kind of like the difference between walking on land and then walking in water). This is proven easily with an amp meter. Observe the amps with all the gates open (that will be maximum load), and then observe the amps with all the gates closed, there should be a big difference, and a lot less amps. I think the misconception mostly comes from the noise when the gates are all closed...it does sound like the thing is about to blow up.


Thanks Fred - I definitely miscued on that. Should have realized that the air is the load. no air - no load.


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## howarddavidp (Jun 12, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> your link doesn't work.......


FLICKR to the rescue:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157631289540252/


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