# Ready to buy



## HalVT (Dec 31, 2013)

After realizing how much coughing and hacking I did while working on my wife's Christmas gift, a cherry buffet table, I have decided it is time to stop putting off investing in a collector for my basement shop. I've read a lot on this forum and other areas and the common theme seems to be get as much airflow/cfm as you can. I've pretty much decided to go with something in the 2HP class at 1500 cfm rating. I'm leaning toward the Penn State 2HP DC2000B Dust Collector with 1 Micron Bags. I also looked at the Grizzly, but it's a hundred bucks more and not in stock. That hundred bucks would help with ducting/accessories and putting in 220 service to the beast.

The shop is about 1000 sq feet. My longest run would be about 30 feet to a rarely used radial arm saw. I'd have about 25 feet to my miter saw. Table saw and planer would be essentially right next to the collector. I have an air cleaner in place. 

Any reason not to go with the PSI collector? I figure I can start with the 1 micron bag, and have the option to upgrade to the canister later if I want to. 

Thanks

Hal


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

HalVT said:


> After realizing how much coughing and hacking I did while working on my wife's Christmas gift, a cherry buffet table, I have decided it is time to stop putting off investing in a collector for my basement shop. I've read a lot on this forum and other areas and the common theme seems to be get as much airflow/cfm as you can. I've pretty much decided to go with something in the 2HP class at 1500 cfm rating. I'm leaning toward the Penn State 2HP DC2000B Dust Collector with 1 Micron Bags. I also looked at the Grizzly, but it's a hundred bucks more and not in stock. That hundred bucks would help with ducting/accessories and putting in 220 service to the beast.
> 
> The shop is about 1000 sq feet. My longest run would be about 30 feet to a rarely used radial arm saw. I'd have about 25 feet to my miter saw. Table saw and planer would be essentially right next to the collector. I have an air cleaner in place.
> 
> ...


I would put off the ducting for the time being, roll the DC around to the tool in use and buy the Wynn Environmental canister right away. http://wynnenv.com/ It's the dust that will escape from that 1 micron bag that will do you the most long-term harm. Use this to make quick hookups from DC to machine http://www.rockler.com/woodworking/Dust-Collector-Quick-Connect or use these EZ release clamps http://www.ptreeusa.com/dusthoseclamps.htm


Try to catch the Harbor Freight dust collector on sale and put any money left over into a fund, then start saving up for a cyclone...

I looked at the specs on that Penn Industries unit. I, personally, don't believe them. While you're correct that you want the most flow, the flow stats have to always be suspect. You should go read about all of this on Bill Pentz's website. Read about flow, impeller sizing, and ducts. http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

then, go read about Phil Thein's trashcan seperator http://www.jpthien.com/ and build one of those and your new Wynn filter will stay cleaner a great deal longer. Finally, keep the 4" hose as short as possible to get the best flow characteristics.

Just my opinion,

Paul


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

mobilepaul said:


> I would put off the ducting for the time being, roll the DC around to the tool in use and buy the Wynn Environmental canister right away. http://wynnenv.com/ It's the dust that will escape from that 1 micron bag that will do you the most long-term harm. Use this to make quick hookups from DC to machine http://www.rockler.com/woodworking/Dust-Collector-Quick-Connect or use these EZ release clamps http://www.ptreeusa.com/dusthoseclamps.htm
> 
> 
> Try to catch the Harbor Freight one on sale and put any money left over into a fund, then start saving up for a cyclone...
> ...


While Bill Pentz has a lot of good info. His information can make you think the only way to get a good DC system is to shell out a lot of money. What I get from his stuff is that 3hp is bare minimum making anything under 3hp not worth the money. That's my opinion but have had many agree with me. Most people on here have less then 3hp systems most of which are 1.5 to 2hp units and feel they work pretty well. I have a 1.5 shopfox with canister filter that I'm looking to upgrade to at least 3 ho with a cyclone so maybe he is right. :thumbsup::laughing:


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

rrbrown said:


> While Bill Pentz has a lot of good info. His information can make you think the only way to get a good DC system is to shell out a lot of money. What I get from his stuff is that 3hp is bare minimum making anything under 3hp not worth the money. That's my opinion but have had many agree with me. Most people on here have less then 3hp systems most of which are 1.5 to 2hp units and feel they work pretty well. I have a 1.5 shopfox with canister filter that I'm looking to upgrade to at least 3 ho with a cyclone so maybe he is right. :thumbsup::laughing:


And that is why I recommended to Hal to start with a harbor freight DC and canister and save up for something more substantial in the future. 

Bills info is pertinent no matter where you end up on the DC food chain. If he only advocated to spend tons of money, he wouldn't put plans for a very high quality cyclone up on his site for everyone to use free of charge. If you follow every one of his guidelines to the T, you could spend a good bit of money. Especially where the motor and impeller are concerned. He knows, first hand, what inadequate DC can do to your health. If one reads his literature and understands what he is saying about DC in general, it will make one a better consumer for where ever your personal budget lands.


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

I wanted good DC but I am restricted to 120 for the DC, don't have enough 240 outlets on that side of my garage. I went with this DC http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/dc-...hp-1ph-115-230v-2-micron-canister-kit/708659K I have been extremely happy with it and it does a great job with the vortex action. The bags are very easy to remove and repalce to empty, I just dump it in to a trash bag and reuse the Jet bag. My jointer/planer will fill it up fairly quickly.


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## HalVT (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. I have read all of the Pentz stuff. While I do not dispute what he has to say, reading it and taking it all verbatim would almost make you want to quit the hobby and sell all your tools, maybe take the neighbors skilsaw away from him too. It reminds me of my days removing asbestos. We wore double layer tyvek suits and used powered air purifying respirators. We wore monitors constantly. And on our dirtiest day, which we had raised quite a cloud, our levels were lower than those of an average day on the streets of Manhattan due to brake dust. My point is that there are a lot of things that are dangerous in concentrated levels and prolonged exposure. Some people are more sensitive to some things than others, and for these people (like Bill) it is very important to go to the extreme to get every last fiber. For me, I want to get the dust down to what I consider an acceptable level of risk. I have not read about the Thein separator yet, but will definitely do that. I don't think much of harbor freight, so I'm not going to go that route. 

I am going to do the ductwork because I know myself- if I am moving the collector from machine to machine, well, I won't. It's just one cut on the miter saw after all, and it'll take me too long to drag the thing over there- all 6 feet and 37 seconds  . I already do that with my shop vacs, of which I have four, so I really don't even have to move them that much. A ducted system has a much higher chance of being used properly. 

I've heard good things about the jet models, and I wonder if it's a good trade off to drop to a 1 1/2 horse Jet vs. the 2 horse Grizz or PSI. I don't see myself upgrading the whole system any time in the near future. But I could see going from bag to a canister at a later date. So I am hesitant to go for the 1 1/2 and then wish I'd gone just that little bit more. 

Hal


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## HalVT (Dec 31, 2013)

*Update*

Well, I've been continuing to read, and read, and read. I've come to the conclusion that there are an infinite number of opinions on every detail of a DC system. I bet if you look hard enough, you could find a raging argument over which color motor housing is right. Right or wrong, I just ordered a 2 horse Grizzly, with the bag not the canister. I chose this one because of the higher rated static pressure vs. the Penn State model I was looking at. Whether the specs provided by any manufacturer are accurate or not is certainly debatable, but I decided that if I went for the Penn with the lower SP, and I wasn't happy with it, I would always wonder about that number. I'm planning to build a Thein separator to go in line with it. I'm also planning to enclose it in it's own little area near two basement windows. Then depending on what I experience, I might put a couple vent fans in those windows to suck out some of the air in the enclosure. I figure the enclosure can't hurt the noise either. Should be fun to set all this up and see what happens.


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## Tom King (Nov 22, 2013)

I've owned 1-1/2 hp, 2 hp, put a 5 in the shop, and now have a 3hp for a portable. After my experiences with these, add me to the camp that says 3 hp is the minimum.

My 3hp is a Woodtek. It comes on wheels, rolls around easily, and will roll right through a regular house door. With the pro discount, it was mid 600s and money well spent.


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## Toller (Dec 30, 2007)

HalVT said:


> Right or wrong, I just ordered a 2 horse Grizzly, with the bag not the canister.


There is no right or wrong; they are all good, just some are gooder than others.
I think you will regret the bag, but that's how you learn.


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## HalVT (Dec 31, 2013)

Toller said:


> There is no right or wrong; they are all good, just some are gooder than others.
> I think you will regret the bag, but that's how you learn.


Yeah, and I am fond of a quote I once heard "You have to learn from the mistakes of others, because you aren't going to live long enough to make them all yourself". But somehow 400 bucks now and 500 more for filter/bag upgrades 6 months or a year from now feels better on the wallet than 600 now. Plus if (when) I do upgrade I can justify going for a Wynn a little easier. I am completely ready for the fact that I have started down a road of continual improvements and upgrades. As you say, that's the learning, and also part of the fun in my mind- try a lot of stuff, keep what works. Ultimately it's a separate shop in an outbuilding, and exhaust the works outside! I wonder if anyone else has used a dust collector install to justify a new house and shop... I shall have to run that one by the wife, how can she possibly argue with my logic? :icon_lol:


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## Jcahill4 (Jul 21, 2013)

I am totally there now. Shopping for a new house with a detached workshop and enough land that the neighbors don't complain about the noise! :thumbsup::blink:


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## HalVT (Dec 31, 2013)

Wow- pretty impressed with Grizzly so far. I ordered the thing on Saturday. I figured it would take a couple weeks to arrive especially given motor freight vs. UPS or Fed Ex. It arrived Tuesday in great shape. I put it together last night. Then today I get a package from them via UPS. Can't imagine what it is since I had all the parts... they sent me a free trash can separator! Didn't know I was getting that! Now I need to run my 220 service so I can get it going.


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## HalVT (Dec 31, 2013)

Update- As I mentioned previously, I went with the 2HP Grizz, and am very happy with Grizzly. I ended up building a Thein separator and mounted the blower/motor above it on a frame with the collection bags off to the side. As a result I now have a nice metal roller base that I can use for some sort of roll around tool stand or something. I "plumbed" it all with 4" thin wall PVC. I'm pretty happy so far, but I know some will say I should have gone 6 inch and that I'm missing the super fines. Probably true, but compared to no collector in my basement shop, this is pretty awesome in my opinion, fit the budget a lot better, and physically fit the basement a lot better. I'd post pics, but I can't figure out how to make the file size small enough and got sick of working at it. The thein impressed me enough that I am planning on building 3 or 4 smaller ones for some of my shop vacs. On a side note, to build the thein I bought my first ever (over 20 years) and last ever sheet of MDF. Heavy, dusty, easily banged up, easy to strip screws, and not cheap. I can get cabinet grade oak ply for the same price. Anyway I had some real adventures sizing all the parts to each other. Between the thin wall drainage PVC, the green SDR 35 PVC, various plumbing fittings, and a fair amount of cussing while driving to the local hardware store, I got everything together. I found the green SDR 35 stuff fits nicely over the fittings on blast gates and tool ports, so that became my friend. A rubber mallet forced short lengths of this onto all my blast gates to serve as transitions to 45 degree wyes to the main trunk. I had to take one back off and it took a lot of prying to get it loose. I did spend as much or maybe even a little more cash on all the plumbing and the thein parts than I did the collector itself, so plan on that if you are thinking of setting up a system. I am glad I started with the bag filter and was able to use some of that savings to sink into the plumbing to get up and going- I can already tell that I am happy I piped it vs. trying to drag the thing around from machine to machine. Someday I might upgrade to a canister, but I've decided that for the winter I will exhaust through the bag, and in the summer I'll exhaust right out the basement window. I moved my air cleaner so it's right close to the bag, so that will help compensate for the bag being only 2.5 micron filtration.

I have about 25 feet of pvc with 3 45 degree bends to my furthest blast gate, and I hooked 20 feet of flex hose to that gate just to see what would happen. There's definitely a drop in performance way out there, but I still have enough "suckolation" to use the thing like a vacuum on the floor. As part of this project I did a shop reconfiguration and as a result my table saw, jointer, and planer are all within 10' of the Thein and there's plenty of power for those. I haven't tried any reductions to 2 1/2" yet, but it seems like the shop vacs are the better choice for those fittings anyway- belt sander, fence on the router table, SCMS port, etc. 

Somewhere along the line I read where somebody grounded their plastic pipes using foil duct tape. I did this, and it seems to work great. I ran 2" wide tape the length of all the pipes both inside and outside and I ran the tape right through the fittings to bond the inside to the outside. I stripped the plastic off my flex hose wires and bonded those to the tape too. I have continuity from one end of the system to the other both inside and out. The tape is nice and smooth inside the pipes to avoid creating something for dust to get hung up on. Not sure about the durability, but time will tell. If anyone is interested I'll expand on how I ran the tape on the inside of 10 foot lengths of pipe. I bought the stepped over hose band clamps from Rockler to connect my hoses to various fittings. They work fine, but beware that not all flex hose coils in the same direction. I ended up with 20 feet of hose from Peachtree through amazon that's coiled in the opposite direction, so those are connected with standard band clamps from my local hardware store. They seem to work just as well as the stepped ones. Somehow I over ordered the clamps and have 15 extras. It seems like someone could make a mint by standardizing all this crap or at least doing a decent job of describing what fittings and parts will be compatible with what sizes of pipe, duct, etc. 

I can already tell that a near future purchase will be a remote control switch. Also discovered that it doesn't work quite as well if you forget to open the blast gate... or leave all 5 blast gates open.


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