# Satin poly wb finish is too shiny.



## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi Guys.
I did my first attempt with water based polyurethane and used a spray gun (not hvlp, but compressor run). I was impressed with the flow and ability to shoot it even at too cold of a temp (45 deg). I did get a few runs, and went back later, hit it with 320 wet sand and resprayed. It went
exceptionally well all considered.

The problem is I didn't want the sheen I got. I was after a near flat finish and ended up even though the Minwax Polycylic product stated "satin" it seems like a semi gloss. Too shiny! I was after a flat appearance.

I need a fix, and it likely up north won't be ale to be respray, since we are hitting temps below 40f. and 20f at night. My window of weather is likely over.

So I was considering a steel wool rub with 000 or an 800 grit wetsand. 
Mind you, these are hollow logs with bark removed and sanded. Meant to be rustic/modern. The top surface is glassed over. These are interior pieces.

Would this work and/or what are the downsides ?
Thanks in advance.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Wow. No responses yet.
I went to a local paint shop who gave me some fff grade pumice stone to mix with water or oil, and hand rub with a rag. They tell me I should be able to get a matte/flat finish, which is desirable, as long as the grin is still visible. There is still a little confusion, on what base to mix this in, for my purposes. I have a call into the mfgr, and am awaiting a call back from the lab tech. for details.

I'm thinking sand paper or steel wool will be too coarse and the grain of the wood will be visually lost.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

aardvark said:


> Wow. No responses yet.
> I went to a local paint shop who gave me some fff grade pumice stone to mix with water or oil, and hand rub with a rag. They tell me I should be able to get a matte/flat finish, which is desirable, as long as the grin is still visible. There is still a little confusion, on what base to mix this in, for my purposes. I have a call into the mfgr, and am awaiting a call back from the lab tech. for details.
> 
> I'm thinking sand paper or steel wool will be too coarse and the grain of the wood will be visually lost.


 
I use WB poly quite a bit and I have found that either Parks Pro Finishers or General Finishes give me the best satin finish. I haven't used the Minwax product but what you might be able to do is wait until the finish is FULLY cured and then try rubbing/buffing with a white scotchbrite pad. I have used that technique in the past on wb poly and got a very nice looking matte sheen. Try it on some finished scrap peices first to see if you like the results


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> I use WB poly quite a bit and I have found that either Parks Pro Finishers or General Finishes give me the best satin finish. I haven't used the Minwax product but what you might be able to do is wait until the finish is FULLY cured and then try rubbing/buffing with a white scotchbrite pad. I have used that technique in the past on wb poly and got a very nice looking matte sheen. Try it on some finished scrap peices first to see if you like the results


+1.:yes: I wouldn't use steel wool, as particles get dislodged and can be a rusting problem. 



aardvark said:


> The problem is I didn't want the sheen I got. I was after a near flat finish and ended up even though the Minwax Polycylic product stated "satin" it seems like a semi gloss. Too shiny! I was after a flat appearance.


You might check with the paint distributors in your area if they have a flattening agent for waterbase.












 







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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

It's past the point where I can repaint Cabinetman.
Right now @2:00 it's 36 degrees out 42 in the garage.. It would run on me. 45 deg outside with 50 in the garage was challenging enough.
I will remember the flattening agent for future, however. I have 9 more similar projects to go next spring,.

I'll look in to the scotchbrite . I cannot talk to the lab chemist of the pumice stone company till wednesday. Considering that will give me about 5 days of drying time, I think that will work, and I won't be touching it until then.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

aardvark said:


> It's past the point where I can repaint Cabinetman.
> Right now @2:00 it's 36 degrees out 42 in the garage.. It would run on me. 45 deg outside with 50 in the garage was challenging enough.
> I will remember the flattening agent for future, however. I have 9 more similar projects to go next spring,.
> 
> I'll look in to the scotchbrite . I cannot talk to the lab chemist of the pumice stone company till wednesday. Considering that will give me about 5 days of drying time, I think that will work, and I won't be touching it until then.


I live in the Chicago area as well (Saint Charles) and have the challenges of dealing with the cold weather and finishing in my garage. I spray (HVLP) wb poly basically all year round. I use a little portable heater just to get the temp to 60 or so and I have had good success. 

Generally speaking, I can only spray at night after work so in the winter if I am spraying a project, I turn on the heater as soon as I get home and get the garage to about 60 degrees in about 30 to 45 minutes. (If the outside temp is 20 or 30, my garage is usually about 50 or so with no supplemental heat.) Then I do my spraying and keep the heater on until until everything dries. Once everything is dry to the touch I shut off the heater and leave everything overnight. I repeat that process for as many coats as I need and I am good to go. In fact last winter I sprayed an entire kitchen full of cabinets with that routine and it worked out just fine. I can't speak for anyone else but I have found wb poly to be rather forgiving and a pleasure to work with.

As you know we can have some stretches here where it's below zero for days at a time. During those spells, I just forget about spraying anything and wait until it gets back into the 20s or 30s before going at it again.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Tom
The garage isn't insulated and I'm barely able to keep her @ 45 deg right now. with 2 small spaceheaters running. 
No doubt if I get better spaceheaters and some insulation up, I'm good to go, but this winter it won't happen.
So for now, I'm just trying to get this project done and (hopefully) sold in time. 
Rough year for Architects around here. Running frugal.

I'm up in the Wauconda area.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

How a film finish appears when cured/dry, depends on many things. A high gloss finish (in most bases, i.e. oil, acetone/lacquer thinner/water) is usually achieved with a longer dry time, and a reduction of any silicates. The ranges of sheen are geared for how the media will react to certain temperature ranges. 

If a satin waterbase is selected, the sheen range for "satin" will change when the temperature drops. Colder temps will extend the dry time, which is like adding a retarder. The sheen range for "satin" can be better maintained with application in the temperature range suggested for the product.

If a flattening agent (a silica based product) is added, it acts like a catalyzer...speeding up the dry time, and adding a refractory property to the finish. Some compounds are difficult to add, or to mix in. So, following the direction for mixing is important.












 







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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

aardvark said:


> Tom
> The garage isn't insulated and I'm barely able to keep her @ 45 deg right now. with 2 small spaceheaters running.
> No doubt if I get better spaceheaters and some insulation up, I'm good to go, but this winter it won't happen.
> So for now, I'm just trying to get this project done and (hopefully) sold in time.
> ...


go it...well good luck with you project. Hope you get it done and sold in time. I should probably go knock on wood or something but so far this has been a pretty tame winter, huh? But you and I both know that isn't going to last....LOL


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Going downhill fast Tom.
25 deg tonight.

Cabinetman. I do thank you for the info, and will consider it for later projects, but for now, it's how to change what i have w/o respraying.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Hey Dan send me a pic via e-mail. You can use steel wool. I wouldn't worry about wool particles rusting, just use a good 0000 steel wool. Not home depot or ace junk use Liberon steel wool from woodcraft. Besides your not rubbing it dry,you'll be rubbing with a lubricant like water,wax, soap or whatever you have. I've rubbed a lot of finishes and never had a rust issue. Good luck.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Dom
Haven't gotten pix's taken yet, but plan to in a few days.
Will do, though.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

aardvark said:


> Dom
> Haven't gotten pix's taken yet, but plan to in a few days.
> Will do, though.


Yea that's cool. I can't wait till my sled is done so I can build again. I feel left out with all these builds I see here. I'm having a wood attack. :laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Dominick said:


> Hey Dan send me a pic via e-mail. You can use steel wool. I wouldn't worry about wool particles rusting, just use a good 0000 steel wool. Not home depot or ace junk use Liberon steel wool from woodcraft. Besides your not rubbing it dry,you'll be rubbing with a lubricant like water,wax, soap or whatever you have. I've rubbed a lot of finishes and never had a rust issue. Good luck.


Just a reminder, wood doesn't rust, but tiny shards of steel wool will. Preparing the surface to coat, or between coats it is recommended by the manufacturers to not use steel wool, or ferrous products on waterbase polyurethane. You can read under the directions here, for the Minwax product. Other manufacturers have their own warnings. 

Bronze wool, or a synthetic fiber abrasive will work fine. You can develop good finishing techniques by following recommendations, or not and do it your own way. Offering advice should be within the parameters of procedure and materials offered by the manufacturers of the products used. I certainly wouldn't give advice that could be costly in time or materials.












 







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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

No I am aware of that, Cab'tman 
It isn't getting locked into the surface because recoats are not an option to lock it in., but I think I'll be trying this pumice stone dust anyways, unless I hear wednesday from the lab chemist who I'm due to call, it isn't a good idea. I'm considering starting from the least abrasive and working up as needed. 
Thanks for the concern.

Dom.
I want to get photo's set up under proper lighting conditions and background, where it can be seen in detail and hi resolution which takes stronger light. I sent you a few shots ~ a week ago, but the detail when blown up was grainy. It still needs standoffs for glass and a few other details,,,as well as glass, which will have to wait a while. Got a few to sell before I dump more $$ out. 
A 50" x 50" 3/8" temp glass, slightly smoked is going to cost a good chunk.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Just a reminder, wood doesn't rust, but tiny shards of steel wool will. Preparing the surface to coat, or between coats it is recommended by the manufacturers to not use steel wool, or ferrous products on waterbase polyurethane. You can read under the directions here, for the Minwax product. Other manufacturers have their own warnings.
> 
> Bronze wool, or a synthetic fiber abrasive will work fine. You can develop good finishing techniques by following recommendations, or not and do it your own way. Offering advice should be within the parameters of procedure and materials offered by the manufacturers of the products used. I certainly wouldn't give advice that could be costly in time or materials.
> 
> ...


C-man where on your link does it say not to use steel wool? Not sure what your trying to show. Besides I was referring to a oil base poly.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Dominick said:


> C-man where on your link does it say not to use steel wool? Not sure what your trying to show.


Go to the link, click on "Directions", read #2.



Dominick said:


> Besides I was referring to a oil base poly.


Seemed like the discussion was about waterbase polyurethane. BTW...I don't use steel wool at all, or wax, on anything.












 







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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Go to the link, click on "Directions", read #2.
> 
> Seemed like the discussion was about waterbase polyurethane. BTW...I don't use steel wool at all, or wax, on anything.
> 
> ...


Ok I read directions. & your right it does say do not use steel wool. but it doesn't say what kind,and you know there's different kinds of steel wool. That's what they as a manufacturer recommends. It's a way for them to cover their butt. Kind of like insurance/fine print. So I'm sorry if I created some confusion on this topic. Like I said before rubbed out a lot of finishes & never had a problem. Jmo


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Ok I read directions. & your right it does say do not use steel wool. but it doesn't say what kind,and you know there's different kinds of steel wool. That's what they as a manufacturer recommends. It's a way for them to cover their butt. Kind of like insurance/fine print. So I'm sorry if I created some confusion on this topic. Like I said before rubbed out a lot of finishes & never had a problem. Jmo


Q. Can steel wool be used in place of fine sandpaper?

No. Since steel wool and water can cause rust, steel wool should be avoided around all water-based wood finishing products. A stray strand lodged in the surface could leave an unsightly stain in the wood.

I just wanted to post this as well. Q.can steel wool be used in place of fine sandpaper. I don't think you would want to use steel wool as a sandpaper,dry in between coats.you would probably want to use some kind of lubricant.scotch bright pads, maybe a little rough. When rubbing out a finish it's usually done after last coat of finish, when that last coat has fully cured 1 to 2 weeks or months depending on temps. Cold temps take longer. The longer you can wait to rub a finish, the better. Now if the last coat of finish is fully cured and you rub with 0000 steel wool to a warm satin how is the wool going to Inbed in the wood and rust? Unless you rub threw the finish. Which is not hard to do if your not careful or a beginner.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Dominick said:


> Q. Can steel wool be used in place of fine sandpaper?
> 
> No. Since steel wool and water can cause rust, steel wool should be avoided around all water-based wood finishing products. A stray strand lodged in the surface could leave an unsightly stain in the wood.
> 
> I just wanted to post this as well. Q.can steel wool be used in place of fine sandpaper. I don't think you would want to use steel wool as a sandpaper,dry in between coats.you would probably want to use some kind of lubricant.scotch bright pads, maybe a little rough. When rubbing out a finish it's usually done after last coat of finish, when that last coat has fully cured 1 to 2 weeks or months depending on temps. Cold temps take longer. The longer you can wait to rub a finish, the better. Now if the last coat of finish is fully cured and you rub with 0000 steel wool to a warm satin how is the wool going to Inbed in the wood and rust? Unless you rub threw the finish. Which is not hard to do if your not careful or a beginner.


I would guess that in the privacy of your shop you can do whatever you want. It's all about positive advice.:yes:












 







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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I would guess that in the privacy of your shop you can do whatever you want. It's all about positive advice.:yes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok not sure how to take that one. I'll take that as a positive comment. Can we agree?


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

No comment !!!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Dominick said:


> Ok not sure how to take that one. I'll take that as a positive comment. Can we agree?


Of course it's a positive comment. But, only you know what you do when I ain't lookin.:laughing:












 







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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Guys, Guys.
I was in a professional paint shop yesterday and this subject came up, and we discussed IF using oil based, it is less likely for the trapped particles to oxidize, especially sealed in oil and air locked out by final coats. If cleaned down well between coats a 0000 wool is unlikely to give any noticeable effect, but still not wise and discouraged.
We didn't go into it about last and final coat finishes, but I got his point , especially with water based, which fires off rust.
Dominic is aware of the types of project I am doing. His points are ok and valid for the use. These are hollowed out logs and the surface is somewhat natural, besides being clearcoated. The wood is quite flawed, naturally, but the intent is to accentuate those flaws and discolorations. To not do that would leave these bland looking.
In general, on very fine wood surfaces like furniture/cabinets/small pieces, steel wool isn't the best. And yet I've watched more than one "old" professional use it as final sanding before coatings with tung oils or other high end oils. Never saw ill effects. 
My grandfather used steel wool always. He was the master of finishes and wood. I don't hold a candle to him. But processes have changed. Nobody works wood finishes these days like he did. He passed away in 1970. Nothing ever sprayed and everything hand rubbed into submission.

Now with water injected into the process and spraying techniques, the game changes.
These projects I work on are natural as you can get. I'm letting the wood show itself off without changing it's origin. They have divots , some gashed and uneven surfaces,(which I've worked on heavily) which make fine 800+ grit sandpaper hard to use, due to uneven surfaces, and keeping the finish even. These are not flat surfaces by any means. They are finely finished but left in the raw for accentuating what wood is from it's origin. It is tedious accepting and rejecting what to accentuate and what to hide from an visual point of view. A lot of burling going on as well as knot holes.

Bottom line though, is steel wool is out of the mix as an option/consideration.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Of course it's a positive comment. But, only you know what you do when I ain't lookin.:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn't sound like a positive comment to me :laughing: as we'll. Ok so we know that you don't use steel wool or wax, that must mean that it's wrong. Maybe you should read this book by bob flexner understanding wood finishes. Maybe he's wrong. Maybe the guys at woodcraft are wrong. C-man is right. Rust, lmao









Maybe you should right a book.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Dominick said:


> Doesn't sound like a positive comment to me :laughing: as we'll. Ok so we know that you don't use steel wool or wax, that must mean that it's wrong. Maybe you should read this book by bob flexner understanding wood finishes. Maybe he's wrong. Maybe the guys at woodcraft are wrong. C-man is right. Rust, lmao
> Maybe you should right a book.


You raise some very interesting points. It's not a matter of who is right or who is wrong. When I started out there weren't any books (that I was aware of) on cabinetmaking, woodworking, or finishing. At least I didn't have the option then to get different opinions. Flexner's book, which is his opinion, may be methods that worked for him, just like mine that works for me. My methods are trial and error. Most of which work out for me, as to what works and what doesn't. I offer my experiences freely here on this forum, I don't charge for them. Whether they are right for someone else, they may or may not be. 

I feel the advice and suggestions I offer are intended to be taken in the spirit of my experience. They are based on product information from the manufacturers. Safety, materials cost and use, and the quality of time out of one's life to engage in this craft are important to me. I do my best to be easily understood. I make it a point to fully explain my opinion if asked to do so.

Since my work is for clients most of whom are referrals, needs to be done quickly and efficiently, without the callback issues. Are the supply stores, like Woodcraft and Rockler right in their opinions? They do have products for sale, and that may account for what suggestions are offered. The more they have to offer and suggest...the more money they make.

So, it's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. It's not cut and dry like that. Forums are a place for discussion, and I offer my opinions just like anyone else here. 

I never thought about writing a book, as there would be less time to do the work. I have my ways, and they may not be the same as someone else. That's the quandary when there are conflicting points of view.












 







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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Nice log, under the book.

Methods and technologies change. I don't use a brick cell phone anymore. 
Best practices are come across by trial and error . We did a grand piano refinishing with Formby's and steel wool, which was pretty good stuff in it's time and turned out fabulously.
Water based products are getting better. Chrysler in the 70's tried painting wb purple cars, and the paint came off in sheets. My 1996 Benz is rusting and that is uncommon for them (again wb), but it's a heck of a site better than purple Chryslers.

So times and products change. Methods improve and sometimes also get worse.
I can guarantee my steel wooling / oiling grandfather would look at what we call nice finishes and shake his head and be cussing under his breath while looking for wood stripper to start over and correct our errors. What I see in cabinet shops and furniture shops he would call droppings from the south side of a horse going north. But then again, his expertise wasn't affordable by 95% of the customers, which he couldn't have cared less about.

My reason for the question was to get opinions of what methods are being used commonly, and retain a graining that can be seen through what I'm trying to do...dull the gloss of an end product finish.

Thanks. I have enough info to decide with.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Alright c-man I'm going to try to make this short and sweet. I don't want to drag this on all night. Yes your right it's your opinion. Just like you said its a forum to share tips and knowledge. So I'm saying sorry for the hate and confusion. It's not fair for everyone else. Maybe you had bad luck with using the method of finishing that I use. Whatever the case may be, that's what makes us unique as woodworkers. I truly believe you have a lot experience doing what you do. I've seen your work. 
I just don't want you to think I'm a hack & build things half a$$, by your comment of doing things when nobody is looking. I take pride & joy with the things I've made. And I'm sure you do. (I thought this was going to be short) :laughing: but it's sweet. I hope we can come to are senses and agree. (sometimes). With that been said if I could shake your hand I would, if you can shake my had I would hope you would. Take car & thanks for listening. Talk soon.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

No comment I guess.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Still nothing? :thinking:


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Come on c-man at least give me the benefit of the doubt.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Dominick said:


> Come on c-man at least give me the benefit of the doubt.


With apologies to aardvark, I think we've hijacked this thread enough.









 





 
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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> With apologies to aardvark, I think we've hijacked this thread enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea I can agree to that. My apologies to dan.Maybe I was just hoping you would appreciate my gesture. Hand shake.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

No probs guys.
Ya'll have differing methods and styles of projects like we all do. That's the beauty of this site.
My style is if I can't start it with a chainsaw, chisels, work it down wit a high speed grinder, and keep bringing the surfaces to a fine finish (say 220-320 grit), I'm not interested. I start wet and raw, go into drying stage to 10% and get after it.

Thanks for the unnecessary apology.


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## jleep (Oct 27, 2011)

My 2 cents: no steel wool w/ water based finishes; yes u could use pumice and water or oil; u could also just use 1000 get sandpaper to degloss and smooth out; u could wait till it cured, water based finished when it's cold and really all finished have a period of time where they look glossier than they will when they set up(usually about a week) HOs aren't usually patient enough to wait that long....so the above methods are used also use 0000 or 000 synthetic steel wool pads with liquid wool lube

jleep


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

I don't know. I use good 0000 steel wool. Never had rust. So I'm not sure if people are using wool to sand dry in between costs. Then I can see there maybe a problem with rust. Who knows. Got to let the finish fully cure. That's the key.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Jleep
Thanks. 
It's been a week tomorrow since I sprayed it. It's a strong semi gloss now. The can was satin, but with multiple coats over 2 weeks (about 7 to 8), and cold conditions, with slower drying, it glossed up on me.
Sandpaper is kind of out of the question since this is not flat surface work and getting into tight areas would be next to impossible.
What is synthetic steel wool? I think I know, but have never seen it. 

I didn't get the opportunity to call the lab yesterday and to talk to the company who makes the pumice product. That is on my agenda of "to do" , today. Instructions say water w/ pumice will leave a gloss like finish, but oil will leave a matte/flat , which is what I'm looking for, as long as graining can still be seen clearly through the final surface. 
Question for them is the suggested product and if there is a specific oil to use. to suspend the pumice. Pumice is of a FFF rating, which I'm unfamiliar with. I assume the F stands for "fine" grit, so the 3F's mean very fine.

Dom.
I agree. If the surface is cured and hard, and it is final coat, I have a very hard time believing residue will impregnate the surface and can be rinsed off after quite easily.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

aardvark said:


> Jleep
> Thanks.
> It's been a week tomorrow since I sprayed it. It's a strong semi gloss now. The can was satin, but with multiple coats over 2 weeks (about 7 to 8), and cold conditions, with slower drying, it glossed up on me.
> Sandpaper is kind of out of the question since this is not flat surface work and getting into tight areas would be next to impossible.
> ...


You know this just occured to me and perhps it already has to you....I wonder if it could be possible that they had the can mislabeled?....just a thought


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Tom.
I really don't think so. I was told the multiple coats (5, + additional coats prior with a lacquer base a week earlier.) and cool temps we have here ,caused that glossing due to slow drying which allows it to flow out longer.
Dry time increased to near double @ 50f deg, and colder at night. It was recommended to be applied @ 70f. I didn't have optimum conditions.
This was my first attempt at gun spraying wb poly. I've painted many cars, but this was a first on wood. It's a Minwax fast drying product, that didn't. I really don't care for Minwax stuff, but it is what I could get in short order.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

aardvark said:


> Tom.
> I really don't think so. I was told the multiple coats (5, + additional coats prior with a lacquer base a week earlier.) and cool temps we have here ,caused that glossing due to slow drying which allows it to flow out longer.
> Dry time increased to near double @ 50f deg, and colder at night. It was recommended to be applied @ 70f. I didn't have optimum conditions.
> This was my first attempt at gun spraying wb poly. I've painted many cars, but this was a first on wood. It's a Minwax fast drying product, that didn't. I really don't care for Minwax stuff, but it is what I could get in short order.


got it....yeah that makes sense......oh the joys of living in the cold midwest, huh?...lol


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Wouldn't mind with a heated shop, but fat chance this winter.
I've got 2 cars (collectibles) that get mothballed for the winter before salt hits. That eats up shop space as well, and leaves me with about 1/4 of the garage with them and tools. I can sit one of them out for awhile, but I do like keeping em in good shape.

So when the snow flies and the salt is on the roads, and it gets below 40 deg, I consider hibernating.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

aardvark said:


> Wouldn't mind with a heated shop, but fat chance this winter.
> I've got 2 cars (collectibles) that get mothballed for the winter before salt hits. That eats up shop space as well, and leaves me with about 1/4 of the garage with them and tools. I can sit one of them out for awhile, but I do like keeping em in good shape.
> 
> So when the snow flies and the salt is on the roads, and it gets below 40 deg, I consider hibernating.


I hear ya loud and clear.......we have a little cabin up in northern wisconsin.....I guess we just had to get even more of the cold and snow....lol


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Well.
I just tried the pumice.
It didn't even phase it. I rubbed an area until I gave up. rinsed it down with water to look. Virtually no change.
So I went after it with fine grit steel wool, which worked fast, but did leave barely visible stroke direction marks. At least it cut in to this hard poly and made a dent. 
So now I'm running to get some fine toothed 00 or better wool to finish it off.

As hard as that surface is, I would be VERY surprised if any steel is impregnated into the finish. I mean.... it's tough. And I'm not recoating.

Fill ya'll in when done on the results.
Thanks.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

aardvark said:


> Well.
> I just tried the pumice.
> It didn't even phase it. I rubbed an area until I gave up. rinsed it down with water to look. Virtually no change.
> So I went after it with fine grit steel wool, which worked fast, but did leave barely visible stroke direction marks. At least it cut in to this hard poly and made a dent.
> ...


just curious if you tried the scotchbrite pads and if they had any effect at all


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Hey Dan how Long did you let each coat dry before putting on the next? Hard to believe wb satin poly would be glossy. Rub it with good 0000 wool and soapy water or wax. It should bring down the shine. I don't know. We need pics. I thought you were an architect :laughing: figure out how to post pics for the love of god.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

0000 steel wool did the trick and I was able to control the sheen I wanted.
So now it falls between a flat and a satin finish. Exactly what I was looking for when I ended up buying the satin wb poly in the first place. I kind of new a satin was a tad more gloss than I wanted but was willing to deal with it. When it sheened up more than a satin should, I was very disturbed.
Well the wool worked and I was able to control the shine, and it hit the crevices as well (I might go out and touch them up a bit, later)

I got out the compressor and de-dusted it at hi psi (90 lbs), and toweled it down with a damp towel. DONE !
Next is feet and glass stand offs for the future top.

Quite pleased with the end product. 
Thanks all.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Well that's cool I'm glad you got it takin care of. Hope to see pics soon. Keep an eye out for rust stains. At least you'll have a place to stick your magnets to :laughing:


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Dom
I was pressed for time, so there were 5 coats of sanded lacquer before I went with the wb poly. They were on for a week.
I was pressed for time when doing the wb poly due to weather. I shot 2 coats , one after the other in the morning. It looked great, and an hour later it had a few sags. I waited ~4 hours, and hit it with 220 and then 320 sand paper, and wet sanded. I air dried it, and an hour later I went back out and shot 2 more coats, and hit a few area's a 3rd. Finish was great...but heavily glossed. I figured it would tone down and it did, but never came back to a true satin. More like a semi gloss.
So 5 in all of poly

It was that last 48 degree day, and I either got it done that day or the temps were gonna fall off, and did. So the morning was 44 deg out (and 53 in the garage), and similar temps in the evening. It held 40ish outside overnight, so I felt good about that.
Next day...still shiny. 

Yeah Yeah. 
I can draw purdy pictures as an Archie Tek, but computers and me don't get along.
Still a dinosaur and use lead and paper, instead of electrons to draw with.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

The magnets are how I check for bondo on those rusted cars some wanna sell as "meticulously restored". NOT!
Maybe a Klystron magnet will pull em out of the surface.
Got a Klystron layin around?


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Tom.
No, I didn't try em.
Still curious how they would work though.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

aardvark said:


> Tom.
> No, I didn't try em.
> Still curious how they would work though.


Scotch Brite pads work as a smooth abrasive with just light rubbing...no lubricant needed. Here is a chart showing the pad color and the equivalent sanding/abrasive grit. They are available in a much finer texture than steel wool.
http://academic.evergreen.edu/projects/biophysics/technotes/fabric/finish.pdf












 







.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Oh Thanks.
I would have tried them, or considered them, but the drive to pick some up was not going to happen soon.
I was able to go 2 miles to pick up what was needed to finish up.

Actually the 0000 by the chart works out to 800 grit and they did make a 00000 grit which looks like it would match the finest scotch brite grit , or at least close. A pad would be hard to get into small crevices, as would sandpaper.


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## jleep (Oct 27, 2011)

Scotch brite pads are synthetic steel wool green is like a 00/000 after doing that use a rubbing compound premade like liquid wool lube it'll smooth out imperfections and degloss


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

jleep
I'll keep em in mind. Never heard of the liquid wool lube. It would get into crevices and work. Considered automotive rubbing compound.
what manufacturer makes that...3M?
I'll consider it for my upcoming projects. I have 8 more hollowed out maple log cuts drying for next spring for coffee and kitchen tables, and 5 fairly large slabs of oak burl, 8" thick for coffee tables. They get cut to 2"-3" thick slabs.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

While all of the suggestions have been excellent for dulling the shine, I'd like to add one more that I have used in the past with good results. Go to an auto parts store near you and get some of the 600 wet/dry sand paper (the black stuff). Once the finish has fully cured, give the piece a through wet sanding keeping the surface flooded with water as you sand.

I've taken high gloss poly down to a nice flat sheen doing this. The water will not hurt the wood if the wood is well coated with the finish so that there are not unfinished cracks for the water to weep into.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah, it works, yet the issue I have is the areas where using sandpaper is tight to do. small sunken imperfections in the wood or cracks and crevices where it is near impossible.
It's why the option of rubbing with either steel wool or a compound was chosen. It gets in areas easier than paper can, even if I have to use a sharp stick with compound and a thin rag or wool on the end.


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