# Chain saw trouble



## Tweegs (Sep 8, 2007)

OK gents, 
Been working my butt off here since last spring. Lots going on, much to do, so much so that I’m way behind the 8 ball getting my winter wood laid in.
Just started having some problems with the chainsaw, an 18” McCulloch model 1838 (38cc), I was hoping y’all might be able to help figure out.
Most of the logs I am cutting are 14~16” in diameter, about half way through the saw starts making a turn to the right, always to my right. This of course will bind the blade/bar.

This is the second chain the bar has had on it and it is nearing the end, almost all stretched out, maybe a quarter inch of stretch left before I won’t be able to tighten it anymore. This was about the same point where I replaced the first chain.

The bar itself seems OK to my eyes. When laying the bar on my jointer, there are no gaps between the bar and jointer bed so it appears to be nice and flat. The chain groove has a minimal amount of slop and the chain doesn’t bind anywhere I can tell. The end pulley spins free with no drag or binding. And lastly, there is no bluing of the bar or other indications of overheating.

I sharpen the cutters at 30 degrees using a guide and 5/32 file. I adjust the chain when it is cold so that it still spins free but will only lift maybe, not quite, 1/8” out of the groove. Tight, but not too tight.

Technique? I start the cut about mid bar. When the bar and chain are both buried I start a gentle rocking motion allowing the motor to contact the log. I use a loose grip and just let the weight of the saw pull itself through. My grip is such that I have full control, but I’m not trying to force the saw in any direction. I use a log jack/roller to keep the log off the ground while cutting. This one in particular: http://www.tractorsupply.com/outdoor-power-equipment/log-splitters/swisher-log-jack-amp-roller-2153443

Obvious to me that I’ll need a new chain soon, but does this sound like it might be related to the bar? What of the sharpening angle? How about technique, anyone see anything wrong there?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Did the saw do this with the first chain. How many times have you sharpened the second chain?. When, in the chain sharpening sequence dit the pulling right start?

I think it is either the bar or in the way you are sharpening the chain.

Both are too cheap to go through a lot of hassel trying to diagnose.

G


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

The most common cause of crooked cutting is that the cutters have different angles, or some are sharper than others. Hand filing is not rocket surgery but it takes a while to be accurate. 

Could be that it isn't taking off on you right away because they aren't off real bead, but once you get enough cutters in the meat then it does. The saw will wander into the direction where the cutters are sharpest. Your technique might appear to be consistent to you but may still be off enough to cause right cutters to get sharper than left or vise versa, because your body motion is different no matter how you try to remain consistent. 

Are you filing your rakers down to suggested clearance after you sharpen? Check your tang clearance all the way around the bar and also make sure your rails aren't gouged. If so dress them. 

Another thing that can cause this is if your s[rocket has uneven wear. It will twist the chain opposite to the side mist worn, and this is especially indicative if it does it more in wider wood, like yours is. 

I would say that the bottom of your links are worn unevenly but you say the symptom is in more than one chain and the chains were both new? 

So here's what I would do:

Check your sprocket for uneven wear. If good...
Install a new bar and chain. If it cuts good, see what happens after your first sharpening . . . . .


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## Tweegs (Sep 8, 2007)

It cut fine with the first chain and the second up until the last 2 times I sharpened.
The last time I sharpened it really didn’t need it but it was raining and I had nothing better to do at the moment, was thinking maybe I had screwed something up the time before because that’s about when the trouble started. Tried to be careful, but I’ll accept I may be putting a better edge on one side than the other.

No TT, I haven’t been filing the rakers, ‘spose I better check on that, never knew to do it. I guess I’ll wear the dum bass hat for a while. :laughing:
I’ll do as suggested and take a good look at the sprocket, replace the chain and bar and go from there.

I guess it’s kind of like playing golf. You play fine for years then suddenly pick up a bad habbit, your game goes to crap and you can’t figure out why. Really wanted to get another set of eyes on this to make sure it wasn’t something I’m doing that screwed things up. I’d have never thought to check the sprocket though, possible you guys just saved me another bar, chain and countless hours of frustration. Appreciate it!


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

Hand sharpening works fine for dressing up but occassionally one needs to put the chain on a decent chain grinder and get the teeth consistant again. You can in no way get the chain as consistant by hand as with a chain grinder. 
Also the bar needs to be dressed up periodically as TexasTimbers stated. The bar can wear causing the chain to tilt slightly enough to cause the cut to wander. This will cause the bar to wear even more. Flipping the bar over to the other side will eleviate the issue till it wears on that side also. 
In this case the bar should be ground down and squared up again either with a grinder or a special file and guide made for that purpose available at your saw dealers store.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I've been sharpening my own chains for about 20 yrs*

I use a high speed rotary grinder made for chain saws, A Craftsman, about 20 yrs old with a 1/8" collet. I leave the chain on the saw and mark a tooth with red nail polish or other color. I then use then appropriate size round grinding bit usually 5/52? I think, Dremel makes them, but you must use the right one for your size chain. Then I just run the stone in the gullet keeping the same angle down and the same angle horizontal at the same time.
Takes a bit of practice but I've done a chain in 3 minutes. You should turn the bar in the vise, (I forgot to mention I grab the bar in the vise so I can keep moving the chain as I go,) and then do all the other facing teeth since it's a lot easier working from one side, then the other.
Next, I inspect the groove in the bar for burrs, be careful it will cut you!.
If there is a burr turned up I take the bar off and run it against my 6" x 48" belt grinder/sander and square the groove back up and eliminate the burr. Every time you sharpen turn the bar over to even out the wear.
Sprocket wear is tough since you have to remove and replace the sprocket.
If the bar isn't getting enough oil the chains will wear prematurely. 
Fire up the saw and hold it over a piece of newspaper and see if there is a fine spray of oil coming off the spinning chain, if not the oiler is blocked or needs adjustment. There may be an adjustment screw, some either work(oil) or they don't.
Grinding/filing down the rakers a little won't hurt either.
I buy bulk chain and a chain breaker from a bicycle shop saves lots $.
Those are my tips.:thumbsup: bill
There are some videos on You Tube:


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## dirtclod (May 7, 2008)

I'll second all of what has allready been said. 

Tweegs,

Flipping that bar from time to time all but eliminates the need to dress the bar. Ok, the logo appears upside down. But that is a replacement marketing technique by the bar manufacturers. They should print their logos upside down on one side, and right side up on the other, to inspire you that it makes no difference which way it's flipped. If you've ever inspected an old bar that was used heavily and never flipped you'll see the bar is worn in on one side of the tip at the sprocket only (on the motor side of the tip) - the other side will look ok. Before I started losing my senses, I preferred to use a flat file to deress the bar - but whatever you prefer that works is the right way to do it. 

Hand sharpening, when mastered, beats machine sharpening by several fold in efficiency. But there are situations where machine sharpening is the only recourse. When you hit a rock or a piece of metal it all too often results in the teeth on one side getting damaged more than the other side. All the hand sharpening in the world will not make them even again and the saw will continue to pull to one side. (Ok, there's a way to measure for consistent tooth length - but who does that?) If you inspect the teeth closely you'll see that the teeth on one side are longer than the teeth on the other. As TT pointed out, inconsistently sharpening practices can also lead to this. The only practical recourse is to take the chain and put it on a a type of machine sharpener that will make both sides even again. 

They make a tool to clean out the oil slot in the bar and it's easy to find at your local saw sharpening service. But I'll cheat and poke a twig or anyting else that'll fit through there to clean them out.

It's good practice is to use a push greese gun to lube the tip sprocket every time to refill with gas/oil. These are also easy to find at your local saw shop. I'm surprised how many saw owners have never heard of them. This 'll reduce wear on the tip, chain and bar. You'll see that most bars have a tiny hole on the side of the tip sprocket for inserting the grease gun tip and lubing the sprocket. That reminds me you should check how much slop is in the tip sprocket...it may be time for a new bar.

Your problem with the chain length has got me stumped. I'm thinking you're getting a chain with one too many links to begin with. Are you buying it at your local saw sharpening shop where they are making it custom (and one link too long) every time? If that don't account for it then your bar or sproket is too worn. I can't see the drive sprocket being too worn or small to cause this. How about your adjustment - is there any reason that it won't extend the full range? I've covered all the causes. It's easy for your local (full) sharpening service to remove a link while they have the chain for sharpening.

I'll add (you probably meant this in your post) to allways keep a tight grip and a stiff leading arm on the saw in case of kick back. This can be done while still maintaining slight downward pressure.


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## Tweegs (Sep 8, 2007)

dirtclod said:


> Your problem with the chain length has got me stumped. I'm thinking you're getting a chain with one too many links to begin with. Are you buying it at your local saw sharpening shop where they are making it custom (and one link too long) every time?




I bought my last replacement chain from TSC. The length, I think, was appropriate. The chain stretches with use, this chain has seen a bunch of use, as did the last one. I’m near the point where the chain has stretched enough that I don’t have much room left on the bar adjuster to compensate. If I had to guess, I’d say I’m somewhere between 3 and 5 cord cut up and stacked with this chain, that doesn’t include the felling and bucking.

I tore the thing apart last night and gave it the once over. The motor drive sprocket looks something like this: |__| |__| measured the two grooves with a caliper, they are within 1/1000 of each other (that’s all the resolution my caliper has), so I’m thinking there is no appreciable difference between the two. The tip sprocket, however, shows significantly more wear on one side than the other and herein lie the trouble methinks. Probably a result of not flipping the bar as I should have been doing. How I missed that on other inspections is beyond me, but I did. Needless to say, the bar is trash.

I did know how to check the chain oiler, that’s something I check every time I gas up.
So far I haven’t had any trouble with it.

Think what I’ll do is go pick up another bar and chain, take these two older chains in and have a link removed and sharpened up, that’ll give me 3 chains. Try to get in the routine of hand sharpening a couple three times and then take them in.

I’ve had the saw a number of years, but it’s only since I bought this place a year and a half ago that it’s seen regular use. The majority of last winter’s wood stash was left behind by the previous owners, so it’s only been this year that it has really been pressed into service.

With all good tools there is a certain level of maintenance that needs to be upheld. Obviously in this case I didn’t know as much as I thought I did. Makes me wonder what else I don’t know…know what I mean?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

If your bar has a replaceable tip it's not a hard job. Being on a McCullough I doubt it does. That's not a knock on your saw just that it's a consumer saw doubt it has one. But if so it'll look like this:


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## Tweegs (Sep 8, 2007)

Nah TT, nothing like that on mine. Say now, you wouldn’t want to trade saws would ya? :laughing:

Checked around a bit and found a bar/chain combo for $42, that should get her up and running again.


Just a funny little aside….
Friend of mine said his neighbors just took down a great big oak. My friend has one of those little portable outdoor fireplaces. He got permission and sent the kids over to get a couple of logs to burn. They came home with 4 logs ranging from 18” to 26” each of them 4’ long….:laughing: Kids, gotta love ‘em. Those logs are in the back of MY truck at the moment, squattin’ her right nice too.:thumbsup:


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

More than likely you need to dress the old bar. Should
cost about $7, You can dress them till the drive dogs
on the chain hit bottom. The bottom of the links can
also wear, but the teeth should be gone before that
unless it is a carbide then the teeth will out last the
dogs.

It is a combination of thing that cause these problems,
people only fix one of the things and the problem is
still there.

Things like letting the chain stop before sitting it
down help keep the chain in good shape, it just
takes hitting the dirt once to take the edge off a
chain.


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## Rick C. (Dec 17, 2008)

All great info here:thumbsup:.One thing I was told by an old timer when I first srarted cutting was when you start on the left side one time start on the right side the next time.It's only human nature to try to hurry the process as you get tired(bored).Also,count your strokes.
Run yor finger nail across the bar if it catches you'll know to dress the bar.
Good Luck,
Rick


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

depends on what you are cutting. If I am cutting firewood, as long as it cuts fairly straight and fast I don't worry as much about it.

If I am milling beams or lumber on the chainsaw mill, I can't really (easily) dress up the chain without dismounting the saw head anyway so if I take the time to do that , the chain is going on the grinder. While I'm at it at I clean the saw and dress bar. 15-20 minutes and a cup of coffee.


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