# Craftsman lathe tail stock modification



## FireCapt1523 (Jan 1, 2021)

I'm new , sorry if this is a repeat. Im trying to figure out a way to modify the tail stock from original to one of those wheel type adjustments. I have the craftsman 113 lathe with the tube frame.


----------



## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Do you have the other style tailstock, if not it might be less expensive in the long run just to buy a used lathe with that feature, I have noticed that lathe parts seem to be very valuable on Ebay.

It could be done with two length of angle iron fastened to the tube with a space between them for the bolt holding the tailstock and a modification to the other tailstock base.


----------



## FireCapt1523 (Jan 1, 2021)

Hey, I dont have any other tail stock. I thought I may have to do some welding on it to make it work with the wheel 
instead of the original screw type system. Anyway thank you for your reply.


----------



## Dave McCann (Jun 21, 2020)

FireCapt1523 said:


> Hey, I dont have any other tail stock. I thought I may have to do some welding on it to make it work with the wheel
> instead of the original screw type system. Anyway thank you for your reply.


If I understand correctly you are wishing to go from "A" to "B". IMHO there is no cost effective way to do this and do it with satisfactory results.
Could it be done? Most certainly a skilled machinist, with the proper tools and equipment, could machine custom pieces to accomplish the task. Almost anything is possible with enough time and money.


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

FireC...I have a working suggestion for a tailstock hand-wheel modification. I am going to attach several pictures as I go to try and explain my mod.

*There is only Tapping of the 3/8" dia. center hole of the tailstock ram involved in the mod. 

First:* I immobilized the black plastic hand-wheel so it would not spin/turn when cranking the tailstock spindle in or out.

***The two methods I had planned to use (one or the other....which ever one worked better):

*#1*: a spacer to jam the wheel in the casting with the spindle still able to thread easily into the hand-wheel...obviously.  
*#2* drill small holes at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock in the plastic wheel to allow for 2 small dowels to be inserted so it won't turn in the casting.

***The first method I tried (jam spacer worked very well); a large flat washer placed over the spindle to help to take up space next to the wheel in the casting. You will see the washer next to the wheel the photo. If it begins to rotate at some point in the future you can use the dowel method as well.









***The next step involves the *Thread Tapping* mentioned previously. All of the tailstock spindle rams should have matching specs if they are of the same general model; mine is a 113.228162 (Craftsman, of course).

The center hole is 3/8" dia. on *my* spindle...perfect for a 7/16" x 20tpi bolt (I chose a 20tpi bolt to give me a slightly finer adjustment). The bolt is grade 5 7/16"dia. x 20tpi approx. 3 1/2" long with 1-1/2" of thread and 1-1/2" of shoulder.

***Tap the hole deep enough so that the bolt bottoms out on the shoulder. The purpose of this is so the bolt can be tightened sufficiently so it won't work it's way loose while in use and you can still take it apart (not using epoxy etc.).

















**Last:* The 3-1/2" long bolt should allow enough length to run the spindle ram all the way out (first photo above) and still leave sufficient length to mount a "carrier" bearing/bushing on the bolt shoulder (near the head of the bolt) to help support it (if thought necessary...I don't) and mount a crank/wheel to the end...both of which I will do over the next day or so.

*Post Script: It really does work guys...just make certain the plastic hand-wheel does not turn and the bolt tightens sufficiently so it won't back out on you until you want it to; then simply turn the crank CCW while the spindle ram is locked in position.*








I hope this offers some relief of wrist fatigue from having to turn that blasted wheel (for those who own similar models)
Biz


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

I consider myself an "above average fabricator" having modified or built various woodworking tools from a 3 table saw Sawzilla, a radial arm router and a 2 axis panel saw, but I can't quite picture the modification you have done here. The close ups are OK, but heres too much clutter around the subject. The reason behind the mod. is eliminating having to spin the center hand wheel to travel the tail stock shaft ...right? Replacing that "blasted handwheel" with the more conventional crank wheel seems like a great idea, but I just can't wrap my brain around how it works. Can you post an "overall" photo of the completed modification to show the end result? How does the crank wheel attach to the long bolt? Did you cut the head off and set screw it on? A very creative solution, regardless, good work!


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

Sorry for the clutter wood... I'll try again.

One of the clearer pics attached at the very bottom of this text shows a 7/16" x 20tpi x 3-1/2" to 4"L bolt tapped into the 3/8"dia center hole in the tailstock ram...that is the only alteration made to any of the original parts.

The pics below show the final product...not so cluttered...I hope, with the crank attached to the bolt and threaded into the end of the ram.








The bolt goes into the back end of the ram *all the way to the shoulder* and tightened down, *by hand only*, to facilitate future disassembly; when the plastic wheel is centered the ram it will thread smoothly/easily through the center by hand. The crank shown above is attached to the bolt and turns the ram in/out through the immobilized (*jammed*) plastic hand wheel.

Attachment method of the crank to the bolt head is explained below.

The unit completely assembled:








In this pic you can see the large washer I placed next to the hand wheel to* "jam"* it in the casting so it won't turn when the ram threads through it, this works well without actually having to alter the plastic wheel. As I stated in my previous text you can use dowels, sheet metal screws or anything that functions as radials/spokes to keep the wheel from spinning in the casting.

You can see the washer I riveted over the rear hole of the casting to help support the cranking of the bolt over time/use. They are 1/8"dia. holes and prime for 3/16" self tapping screws in the future (I didn't have any)

FYI:
The reason there are only 2 rivets in the rear washer and only on the one side (rendering it somewhat *shade-tree*) is because the machined hole for the ram is not centered in the casting. The two rivets installed caught enough "meat" on the one side to hold the washer strongly in place. The hole in the washer (by the way) is 7/16" dia. and fits snug enough over the bolt to prevent it from developing a wobble over time.

The three small holes in the crank wheel are for a triangle shaped bolt cap I made to help keep the wheel on the bolt head after I "Dremeled" out a hex shape cavity to press the bolt head into. It's quite strong. Epoxy or an expensive crank wheel are always options.

Wood...if you have a specific question please ask, my intent is by no means to confuse any one who reads/looks at my idea.

Biz

P.S.- Using the 3-1/2" to 4" long bolt gives me approx. 1-7/8" in/out ram travel (close to factory specs) without running the threaded portion of the ram under the locking screw.


----------



## Dave McCann (Jun 21, 2020)

Did you eliminate the spindle locking screw which travels in the spindle keyway? 
How do you change tooling in the tailstock? I assume one must disassemble the added components?


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

Hello Dave.

I'm going to take another shot at this.

I have many pictures over and above the ones I've already posted. I'm hoping they show clearly what I've done. As I mentioned to woodnthings I'll answer any question you have concerning my modification with the aide of *these* pictures (obviously). If you wish to see a part that I don't have pictured let me know.

*First and* *foremost I need to make clear that all I have done here is switch out which part moves in the tailstock*.

*First*...I immobilized (*...wedged*) the plastic hand wheel normally *rotated* to move the threaded ram in/out. In place of this motion I am using a *cranking wheel* attached to a bolt which is screwed and tightened into the end of the tailstock ram. Turning this cranking wheel rotates the threaded ram (in/out) of the threaded steel insert molded into the center of the wedged plastic wheel...*See...simple *. 

A close up of the flatwasher used to wedge the plastic wheel (so it won't move) is shown in the pic below. It is only wedged in alongside the plastic wheel...there's no glue, screws or fasteners of any kind...only friction. The plastic wheel and large washer are just centered to the hole in the middle of the casting for the ram to thread through. 

I "sneaked"...(snucked?) up on the correct thickness of the flatwasher until it fit snugly in the casting next to the plastic wheel using a belt/disc sander. I'm thinking you could also (via the same belt/disc sander) sand a *very little* at a time off the side(s) of the plastic wheel and accomplish the same *"sneaking"* as accomplished with the flatwasher. There is a threaded steel insert molded into the wheel to work against...*but be careful not to overheat the steel* *and melt the plastic! *I only mention this now because (in hindsight) holding the plastic wheel against a sanding belt would probably have been much easier than holding the flatwasher against it...*ouch!*.









*Dave*... 
I did not eliminate the locking screw, it's still used. the only difference is that it's tightened down on what ever (non-threaded) part of the ram is under the screw after the tension/pressure against your project piece is set.















As shown above all of the usual accessories can be installed and removed. The only difference is you need to tap the accessory out with a wedge (...preferably made of wood) at the rear of the accessory...not through the center hole in the ram (with a dowel) as you would've done before the modification. 
The locking lever still functions quite well to keep the ram from rotating.

At this point I want to clarify the previous information I posted concerning the bolt I used for the modification.








This is a twin of the fastener I used. 

Experimentation led me to this overall length and shoulder to thread ratio. Total fastener length is 3-5/16" (head included) with 1-1/4" of thread and 1-3/4" of shoulder. I chose a 20tpi pitch for better grip and less play. The thread pitch is totally optional of course, depending on what *your* tap&die set offers. The only dimension that *can't be changed* is that it be a 7/16" dia. bolt...which is what's called out for a 3/8" dia. hole that's to be tapped. 
The size of the center hole in the threaded ram happens to be 3/8" in diameter...at least on my lathe. As I mentioned in my previous post the general specs for this general model of Craftsman wood lathe should be the same. *Don't take anything for granted just in case...measure! *

The experimentation involved *where* the ram *came to astop* when the crank was fully turned in (i.e; full ram travel outward). Too long a bolt would put the ram's *threaded portion* under locking screw when extended fully out and eventually ruin the threads. Too short a bolt wouldn't give you as much ram travel outward. 

Also: 
When you install the bolt in the 3/8"dia. center hole you tapped, screw it all the way in to the shoulder and tighten lightly with a wrench; I thought *"by hand"* would suffice...it doesn't. *Locktite* (blue) will work as well...just as long as you can back the bolt out if disassembly is needed. This pic below shows the bolt nearly seated into the ram. Of course the ram would be already threadeded into the center hole all the way to the flatwasher at the rear.
















You can just make out the inserted ram butted up to the *"riveted on"* washer at the rear of the casting. 

I'm going to include a picture looking through the center machined hole to show how *"off center"* it is in the casting. As I stated previously there was only enough width on one side of the hole to drill for screws or in my case rivets with which to attach the rear flatwasher. Notice the casting is thicker on the left side as you are looking at it. Keep this in mind when drilling for rivets or screws around the center hole.









Woodnthings asked me to show how I attached the cranking wheel to the bolt.

This was a new wheel I picked up someplace long ago and was just taking up space in my toolbox, so I used it. It is made of* "fiber infused phenol acrylic" *(whatever that means) and is extremely strong...*(probably just Lexan)* .
 
I drilled out the center to 7/16" (bolt diameter) then chiseled and *"Dremeled"* out a hex shaped cavity the size of the bolt head (9/16") then *pressed/drew* it in...leaving about 1/2 the thickness of the head exposed in case I needed to apply a wrench for some reason in the future. I then used 2 large washers to *sandwich* the crank wheel. I then drilled three aligned holes in the flatwashers for the bolts you see in the pictures below....works nice.


















I sincerely hope *all this* helps get my idea across and if anyone has any other questions please ask...I shall accommodate happily. 

Thanks for looking and for any opinions, suggestions or constructive criticisms offered.

Biznawich
Bruce Jennings


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Well Bruce, you have really gone to extreme lengths to help out here and it is appreciated! 
My only question, well at this point is.... why not just ditch the round black original adjusting knob and just use your idea of drilling and tapping the ram for a longer bolt/extension. Is it because there would be no way for it to retract or extend without the center knob being "jammed"? Typically, the tail stock housing is threaded at the adjustment end for that reason. Would there be a way to thread the OEM tailstock to accomplish the same result? 
I have an old wood lathe tail stock which I will take a close look at just to see ow it works. I've always kinda taken them for grated, without questioning how or why they work. Thanks,


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

wood...
My whole point was to modify the tailstock without much out of pocket costs or a lot of work requiring tools/equipment most might not have...or know how to use effectively.
I didn't start out that way but when the method for accomplishing my goal popped into my head it sort of naturally went there.

Ditching the wheel would be optimum but I'd need to strip the plastic off the center threaded nut and mount it to the casting. I'm not saying that welding tool steel to maluble cast iron can't be done but I no longer have that equipment...and besides the lathe, although fun to tinker on and mod for my "little hobby shop" really wouldn't be worth the trouble and cost. I'd just buy a new lathe which my wife wouldn't like. We are both on the high side of 65 and on what was once referred to as SS disability but is now just plain retirement 🤔.
In any event, I've got tools/small equipment that allows me to fix, install revamp, "try to build from scratch" or learn to and I'm satisfied (at the moment) with that level of achievement.😏
Keep me up on what you do with the old wood lathes would you wood? I'm always "lurking" reading and learning. I normally only sign in when I need to ask about what I don't quite get, or have something I believe is worth sharing.
I guess when I read "I think you're stuck with it as is" meaning the wheel on my/our wood lathe...it lit my fuse😵😊.

Biznawich
Bruce Jennings


woodnthings said:


> Well Bruce, you have really gone to extreme lengths to help out here and it is appreciated!
> My only question, well at this point is.... why not just ditch the round black original adjusting knob and just use your idea of drilling and tapping the ram for a longer bolt/extension. Is it because there would be no way for it to retract or extend without the center knob being "jammed"? Typically, the tail stock housing is threaded at the adjustment end for that reason. Would there be a way to thread the OEM tailstock to accomplish the same result?
> I have an old wood lathe tail stock which I will take a close look at just to see ow it works. I've always kinda taken them for grated, without questioning how or why they work. Thanks,


I took a close look at my tailstock and I think it might be possible to tap the machined hole to use the "threaded ram" *only *without the adjustment wheel. I wasn't in a position to check out your suggestion last night when I put up my latest post.
The tap would need to be 13/16 to 7/8 dia. which I have but I don't have much in the way of finer(ish) thread pitch(s) in my T&D set. I can look around and see if I can't find a 20 or 24 pitch in the right size. To me finer pitches mean better gripping and no so much "slop".
The only real road block (for me) would be the cost having a new ram machined to go in it. Everything else; rear flatwasher support and locking screw would work as normal. Also, if a person went to the expense of having a new ram machined they might as well make it with an MT#2

Bruce J
BIZNAWICH


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Without going back and reading all the posts, let me ask this: with your setup, the entire original shaft rotates, which originally didn't, correct? The original shaft did not rotate but slid in and out with the locking set bolt riding in the slot. A couple of questions, first of all, if the shaft were to stop and need to be locked, with the head of the locking bolt that usually rides in the slot just slightly on the edge of that slot, wouldn't it, or could it, mar the edge of that slot where it would or could hamper the smooth transition in and out of the shaft? 

Second, what stops the shaft, when the threads come to where usually the locking bolt head in the slot stops the travel? You sure don't want to lock down on the threads. Forgive me as I just woke up from my SS nap, as I was practicing how to sleep before I went to sleep. lol
OK one more question, how much travel does the ram have now? Is it the same as before as I picture it is?


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

BigJim said:


> Without going back and reading all the posts, let me ask this: with your setup, the entire original shaft rotates, which originally didn't, correct? The original shaft did not rotate but slid in and out with the locking set bolt riding in the slot. A couple of questions, first of all, if the shaft were to stop and need to be locked, with the head of the locking bolt that usually rides in the slot just slightly on the edge of that slot, wouldn't it, or could it, mar the edge of that slot where it would or could hamper the smooth transition in and out of the shaft?
> 
> Second, what stops the shaft, when the threads come to where usually the locking bolt head in the slot stops the travel? You sure don't want to lock down on the threads. Forgive me as I just woke up from my SS nap, as I was practicing how to sleep before I went to sleep. lol
> OK one more question, how much travel does the ram have now? Is it the same as before as I picture it is?


BigJim;

The threaded ram does rotate with this modification. The 7/16" dia. bolt I settled on for the mod is *3-5/16" long (head included) with 1-1/4" of thread and 1-3/4" of shoulder*. I chose a 20tpi pitch for better grip and less play. I experimented with quite a few different bolt lengths and thread to shoulder "ratios". This length of threading *(1-1/4")* when screwed all the way into the back of the ram assures the ram's outward travel *stops just before the threads come under the locking screw/pin*.

Overall ram travel is controlled by turning the cranking wheel (now sticking out of the rear of the tailstock) all the way in or all the way out. Of course most of the time tightening down on a piece wood for turning will stop somewhere in between the extremes.

On my lathe there is approx. 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 inches of tailstock spindle travel. Since the ram can *"stop"* conceivably anywhere after *snugging down* your project the locking screw/pin is simply tightened down at that point on the surface of the ram...the non-threaded part.

If it appears that the locking pin is going to land on either edge of the *slot* just turn the crank a *hair* more forward to either put the pin directly* in the slot *or rotate it a hair more in the tightening direction to *move it away from that edge of the slot*. The wood being turned *should* be able to take a smidge of extra *squeeze* between the centers if needed to accomplish this.

I added a few pics below to show the general configuration and the bolt I used for the mod...pardon the clutter in one of them. The first picture shows the threads tapped into the ram where the crank screws into it.























Close ups of the cranking wheel.
















I hope I've answered your questions and if you have more please ask.

Biznawich
Bruce Jennings


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

BIZNAWICH said:


> BigJim;
> 
> The threaded ram does rotate with this modification. The 7/16" dia. bolt I settled on for the mod is *3-5/16" long (head included) with 1-1/4" of thread and 1-3/4" of shoulder*. I chose a 20tpi pitch for better grip and less play. I experimented with quite a few different bolt lengths and thread to shoulder "ratios". This length of threading *(1-1/4")* when screwed all the way into the back of the ram assures the ram's outward travel *stops just before the threads come under the locking screw/pin*.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this, thank you. It does make good sense and I do see how it all works now. One thing I would want in a tail stock with an adjusting wheel would be for drilling a center hole in my work piece. Maybe somewhere someone makes a tail stock that can be adjusted on the tube shaft using a wheel to move it back and forth, like the teeth on a drill press to adjust the table up or down. That would be ideal for drilling center holes of any depth, not just the travel of the ram of the tail stock. Just a thought. I appreciate your time and effort to explain all of this.


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

BigJim said:


> I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this, thank you. It does make good sense and I do see how it all works now. One thing I would want in a tail stock with an adjusting wheel would be for drilling a center hole in my work piece. Maybe somewhere someone makes a tail stock that can be adjusted on the tube shaft using a wheel to move it back and forth, like the teeth on a drill press to adjust the table up or down. That would be ideal for drilling center holes of any depth, not just the travel of the ram of the tail stock. Just a thought. I appreciate your time and effort to explain all of this.


BigJim...

It is at least feasible that you could buy an* extra banjo mounting attachment* for the tube (Ebay), build and mount something to it with an *ACME type spindle and nut* like what's used on *C-clamps*. You could then slide this onto the tube and keep it to the far right near the tube foot mount. When you require a hole to be drilled just slide the unit up to the back of the tailstock, *LOCK *it down, * LOOSEN *the tailstock slightly then crank the ACME screw toward the back of the tailstock to move it forward.

*Two possible problems* come to mind with this setup however;

*First:* it would *take up 2-1/2"* or so to just leave it on the tube until needed. *You* would need to determine if it would be in your way when turning a longer than average length project...but it would save you the trouble of removing the foot mount every time you wanted to use it for drilling.

*Second:* I'm not certain if the tailstock would remain steady enough when *only slightly loosened* to perform the drilling operation. this would require a bit of trial and error tinkering to determine.

On my lathe I can slide my tailstock along the tube by hand when the lock screw is *only slight tightened* (to remove any wobble) using a lot of *grunt*...if you catch my meaning. A setup like I describe above should make it much easier but would likely wear down parts (locking pin) faster than usual.

If you try this mod let me know how it works...I might be able to swing a small investment in an extra banjo mount myself and give it a shot.

BIZNAWICH
Bruce Jennings

*Addendum:* Thinking about this setup... you could fashion an attaching point for the end of the *C-clamp type ACME* screw for temporary connection *directly to the back of the tailstock.*

Every C-clamp spindle *I've* ever seen has a *floating platen* on the end to allow for clamping down on uneven surfaces. This would allow not only for moving the tailstock forward but drawing it backward when the drilling operation is complete .

It just *might* contribute to steadying the tailstock as well, when the locking pin is loosened to allow sliding along the tube for drilling...this would likely take some experimenting.


Biz


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

BigJim said:


> I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this, thank you. It does make good sense and I do see how it all works now. One thing I would want in a tail stock with an adjusting wheel would be for drilling a center hole in my work piece. Maybe somewhere someone makes a tail stock that can be adjusted on the tube shaft using a wheel to move it back and forth, like the teeth on a drill press to adjust the table up or down. That would be ideal for drilling center holes of any depth, not just the travel of the ram of the tail stock. Just a thought. I appreciate your time and effort to explain all of this.


Better hurry on this bargain off Ebay!








Craftsman 12" Wood Lathe 113.228160 2 1/4" Tube - TAILSTOCK CASTING | eBay


THE CASTING ONLY. the number on it is 809465 and 70051 is the part number from book. good condition.



www.ebay.com


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Bill, I appreciate it but I have another lathe just like the one I have now. Thanks for the heads up buddy.


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

Woodnthings...

I finished another modification on the tailstock today. This one I had planned to do when I got caught up in the *"I guess you're stuck with it the way it is"* mod.

This one is to hopefully help steady the tube as well as the tailstock when turning.

See if you can guess what I used.





































I have a lot of travel to play with on the screws. If the mod works well enough I'm thinking of attaching small nylon wheels to them to make it an easier (simpler at any rate) task to slide the tailstock along the tube bed.

The simpler part is not having to loosen them and needing to adjust again everytime I want to move the tailstock. Let me know what you think.

If you have any questions please ask.
Thanks for looking.

Biznawich
Bruce Jennings


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

They look like parts of C clamps.


----------



## Dave McCann (Jun 21, 2020)

BigJim said:


> They look like parts of C clamps.


My vote would be fence clamps from an old radial arm saw.









or possibly bench dog clamps, but my money is on the radial arm saw clamps.









A home made one.


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

BigJim said:


> They look like parts of C clamps.


BigJim...

They are the OEM table clamps from my "*not* *being* *used* *at* *the* *moment*" Craftsman radial arm saw... I don't have any room to set it up in my garage shop🙄. They're made of old world, U.S. of A. tool steel...large enough to do the job and strong enough to take the stress over time/use.

Also Jim I need to clarify a spec on the cranking wheel mod for my tailstock.

I realized that while I *did* have 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 inch of travel outward on the ram I lost about 3/4"of it when I mounted the flat washers on the crank wheel assembly to strengthen it. I can fix this easy enough though by using a bolt with 3/4" longer shoulder portion leaving the threaded portion the same.
I haven't yet had the chance to test my mods in "*battle*", I want to at least see if they work as hoped before I start "*tweeking*". 😏

BIZNAWICH
Bruce Jennings


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

Dave McCann said:


> My vote would be fence clamps from an old radial arm saw.
> View attachment 425325
> 
> 
> ...


That's what they are Dave...table clamps though the bench dog set up looks as if it would do the job too but for being a bit over size for this application.

Oh, sorry for the redundant replies...your post hadn't appeared yet Dave when I posted to BigJim.

BIZ


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks for the information Biz, I appreciate it.


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

Fellas I'm going to post a final few photos of (minor) home spun modifications I made to my Craftsman 12" tube lathe then I be done.

I determined that one of the biggest reasons the tube bed twisted was that it was only being held in place by a tiny bit of _*"friction"*_ created by a single set screw in the headstock and the _*identical*_ amount of *"friction"* by the foot mounting bolt at the far end...not great engineering IMHO.

In the first picture you can just make out where the tip of a longer set screw I installed pokes *through *the wall of the tube. It matches the original *1/2" long* 3/8x16 set screw but is _*now 1-1/2" long*_. I used blue *Locktite* to help manage vibration.

The second pic shows the type of screw I used (or rather it's twin).


















This next photo shows what I did to help stop the tube from turning in the cast foot mount. I *located *and drilled holes for two stainless #8-32 x 1/2" long machine screws into the_* "ribs" *_(for lack of a better description) cast into the tube bed mounting foot. Blue *Locktite *was used here also.









The last thing I did was basic safety stuff. I drilled and tapped a set screw into the drive spindle adapter so it won't inadvertently spin itself off when using the reversible motor I am installing on the whole works.










Again I want to says thanks to any who perused my mods and fostered some/any desire to keep their old lathe safely usable for another few years (generations).

BIZNAWICH
Bruce Jennings


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

Hi folks, last post on this subject...promise (cause there simply ain't no more loose parts)

In my last post above I tightened, screwed or shimmed everything I could see, feel or hear rattling.
The drive spur and the live center points *still didn't* line up close enough for my comfort...acceptable vibration.

Soooo....I looked at the only remaining thing that could be moving or loose. Yeah you guessed it, the _*"riv-nutted"*_ steel bar (track) that the tailstock and banjo mount slide along _*underneath*_ the tube bed.

With everything tightened down the TS still moved left/right 1-2 mm, which is about what the side to side movement of the track was. The factory 3/16"dia. steel _*"riv-nuts"*_ had loosened allowing the tailstock to move/shimmy when turning.

The following text and pics are of what I did to try and remedy this last _*"loose part"*_ on the lathe. The only out of pocket expense for this was buying screws to replace the riv-nuts with...unless you already have six 1/4x28x1/2 flat head cap screws around.
*NOTE:* Use only flat head (countersunk) screws for this. Non-countersunk screws could still allow the steel bar/track to move when tightened...the countersinking won't...(at least that's my theory). And...the _*flat*_ head won't be in the way (more on this _*point *_in a minute).

*First:* I drilled the head off the riv-nut using a 7/32" drill bit. My Tap & Die set calls for a .2130" bit to drill for a 1/4" screw/bolt. I had several 7/32" bits to choose from. When I measured them with my digital caliper one of them measured at .2120".

In my experience slightly smaller is better than slightly larger where tap drilling is concerned and 10/1000 wasn't bad. After the head is drilled off I used a *drift punch* to knock out the rivet.

*Second:* I used that same bit to _*drill out *_the existing hole to the correct diameter for a 1/4x28/1/2 flat head cap screw...picture will follow.
*NOTE:* Just let the drill bit follow the already drilled hole and it will remain straight...don't force the bit in any particular direction except slightly down.

*Third*: I used a 1/4x28 tap to _*thread*_ the hole (use a little oil).

*Forth*:
*NOTE:* I countersunk the hole _*only after*_ tapping the threads to make certain the threads started _*straight*_.
I used a 5/8" dia. 82* (not 100*) countersink bit to _*countersink*_ the hole. If you use the wrong angle countersink the screws _*will not fit correctly or hold*_...unless you *have* 100* screws (aviation spec). Most non-special order *OTC* screws are 82*.
Use a *drill bit guide* to help keep the countersink bit to remain perpendicular while performing this operation* if *you think you need it. _*Crooked*_ countersunk holes don't work well either.

_*NOTE:*_
*If you countersink TOO DEEP you will weaken the steel bar...you will remove too much metal AT the holes. The photo shows I only countersunk to approx. 1/16" from each edge of the steel bar!!*
_*C*_*ountersink only enough to allow the screw head to CLEAR the slot that is machined in the bottom of the tailstock and banjo mount.*_* Photo of what I refer to follows.*_









Pic below shows the size of the screws I used and where I was able to find them (for me...internet)









This is what I meant by _*"clearing the machined slot".*_








Another pic of the screw head clearing the machined slot.









There are *six* riv-nuts to drill out and replace with screws. Replace them _*one at a time clamping on both sides*_ so as not to lose alignment.









You will be pleased with the fruits of your labor. This is a pic of both spindle points lining up nearly perfect after securing the steel track/bar.








I did not need to crank on either of the two table mounts (which I showed I installed in previous posts) to get them to closely line-up.

The table mounts _*do however*_, yet serve to *steady* the lathe (tailstock specifically) while I'm turning.

Again, Thanks for looking.

Any comments, opinions, criticisms welcome.

BIZNAWICH
Bruce Jennings


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Great explanation and photos Bruce! I wondered whether a few posts back IF your mounting surface was warped or twisted if that would affect the alignment of the head and tail stocks? Any slop in the fit between the bar and the milled groove in the tail stock would certainly add to the ability of either the head or tailstock to twist or vibrate during use, right? How did you assure there is no/zero play in this fit? It just seems like a engineering "brain fart" to come up with a design that has "built in intolerance" rather than a design that would have the ability to reduce/remove any play. My experience with metal lathes shows me that not only are there wide surfaces for the tail stock to slide on, BUT there's also a "V" machined onto the ways upwards and the opposite or inverted "V" machined into the tailstock and head to locate them on the ways. Nothing of the sort on this wood lathe.


In my simple world, round things are meant to, or are able to "rotate", whereas any other shaped parts, when mated together male and female can not.... triangles, squares etc. A round bed on a lathe is just asking for trouble, in my opinion.


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

You are right, from *my* point of view as well...a tube *is* inherently *sloppy* as far as tolerance goes. But...a smidge of tolerance is *needed* if the tailstock is to move.

Wood, there is actually _*very little*_ side to side* play* between the the slot and the track/bar (on my lathe anyway). This is what prompted me to look at what (if *any*) movement was in the track.

All I did to _*"assure" ...*_no/zero play after I installed the screws is rely on the factory engineering (*in this instance*) that the holes were drilled in as straight a line as could be managed in a *factory manufacturing jig* and hope my faith wasn't misplaced. Apparently it was not.

The countersunk screws brought and _*held*_ the track _*uniformly in-line*_ (with the factory holes) and everything up top lined up nicely or at least *stopped* being misaligned/sloppy to where vibration was greatly _*minimized*_.

A fair bit of luck *is* involved in this mod as far as ultimate spindle alignment goes but as long as the factory *wasn't too far off while drilling* the six holes underneath _*and*_ whoever is re-sizing and tapping the holes for this mod is careful and steady...it should work fine on *all* the similar model lathes.

*Addendum: *
Concerning the choice of *screws used* in my mod on the steel bar...
*I measured* the machined slot, the width and thickness of the steel bar *and* the thickness of the *tube wall* and *bar* combined to determine the length of screw required.
Lastly, I hunted up the particular size, type and configuration of the screws *all my measuring* indicated would work/fit well.
*This was not a random choice.* I just thought I'd mention that.

Thanks for the look, interest and questions Wood.

BIZNAWICH
Bruce Jennings


----------



## Per_Dan (Mar 21, 2021)

BIZNAWICH said:


> FireC...I have a working suggestion for a tailstock hand-wheel modification. I am going to attach several pictures as I go to try and explain my mod.
> 
> *There is only Tapping of the 3/8" dia. center hole of the tailstock ram involved in the mod.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this! 
It's a helpful one.


----------



## Per_Dan (Mar 21, 2021)

BIZNAWICH said:


> FireC...I have a working suggestion for a tailstock hand-wheel modification. I am going to attach several pictures as I go to try and explain my mod.
> 
> *There is only Tapping of the 3/8" dia. center hole of the tailstock ram involved in the mod.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this! 
It's a helpful one.


----------



## BIZNAWICH (Mar 1, 2018)

You're welcome Per_Dan. I'm glad all this can help. There appears to be many folks with this lathe either purchased or inherited that would like to change it.

BIZNAWICH
Bruce Jennings


----------

