# Dust collection system



## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Hi all. I am new to wood working. My shop is 21x22 and I'm researching dust collection for it. I would like a dedicated system with ducts to each of my tools. I currently have a contractor table saw, jointer, sliding miter saw, and am building a router table with a 4" and 2 1/2" ports on it. I will be adding a planner, drill press, band saw, scroll saw, and possibly a lathe down the road, all of which I'd like the dust collection system to handle. I'm a one man shop so most of the time only one of those tools will be running at a given time. 220V is available. 

What I'm interested in is what kind of specs and features should I be looking for. What would be a good budget route, and what would be the upper middle route? 

Thanks!


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

That depends on what your criteria are for dust collection. If you want to avoid sweeping the floor, then almost anything labeled DC will do what you want. If you want to capture every possible spec of dust and contain it, that's a little more involved. I would start no smaller than a 1.5 HP/11" impeller model. The HF 2 HP is close, and many have had great results with it (it's more like 1.5 HP, with a 10" impeller I think). If you're on the protect your health end of the stick, consider something north of 2 HP, with filtration of 1 micron or better. In that case you would also give thought to larger ducting (moves more air) and replacing the puny factory ports on most tools to as large as possible. If you haven't yet perused the Pentz site, do so..start at the FAQ section and see if anything resonates with you...read further as needed.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Hi Fred, 

Thanks for the tips. I stumbled across Pentz's website a while back and forgot about. Been reading up on it and not sure I want to invest $1800 in a dust collector. On the other hand, I'm young and really don't want to screw up my health down the road by inhaling dust. Primary goal is preventing dust from getting everywhere in the shop (2 car attached garage) to reduce sweeping with a close secondary goal of watching my health, but not going crazy on the budget if unnecessary.

Because I want to run ducts to my machines, I believe I need to go with at least a 2HP system. Maybe I could compromise between a standard DC and what Pentz suggests and get one with a 1-micron filter. Although he suggests that the fine dust is not captured by a 2HP motor because of inadequate air flow... so the smaller micron filters would not be worth it according to that logic?

What brands should I be looking into? The HF seemed to stop at 2HP with a 30-micron filter. Jet has a 2HP with a 2-micron filter and Grizzly has both a 2HP and 3HP models each with 1-micron filters. The 3HP has a much higher static pressure and another 500CFM. 7" input vs a 6" on the 2HP version, but unless I can get my hands on some decently priced 7" ducting, I'd be reducing that to a 6" duct right off the bat anyway.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I think you will do well starting with a "true" 2HP unit. Pentz may be correct that you won't capture ALL the fine dust with it (he indicates you need 1000 CFM at the tool for that) but what fine dust you do capture you want to contain, so the tight filters are a must. Without them, your DC simply becomes a dust pump, recirculating those fines. I'm not brand loyal on DC's; preferring to set criteria, then pick the best buy. So if you have as a minimum a true 2HP motor, a 12" impeller, and 1 micron (or better) filtration HF and the Jet are out. But also look at the ones from Penn State Industries, and if you go to 3 HP check to see if Jet has a better one. Do not compare the CFM's between the units...they are almost all bogus, or at least tested in so many different ways they can't be compared. As for the higher SP, that's a good thing....such a collector will overcome more of the drag drag on the system, and may give you the makings of a shop built cyclone. Also consider if you want bags or filters on the unit. Filters can be a lot more compact and provide much more filter area. There is a recent new upstart with import tools called Baleigh (sp?), you might check to see if they have DC's as well...maybe they have some attractive introductory pricing.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Okay... updated requirements (up for reconsideration if someone has any thoughts):

- Minimum 2HP
- 1-micron filter
- Minimum 12" impeller
- Minimum 6" inlet
- Canister style filter instead of bags

Based on those requirements, that rules out Jet and Bailiegh based on their website. I still have the two Grizzly systems and now added a 2HP Penn State unit. Delta doesn't have any canister style filters so they're out. Checked out Powermatic, Steel City, and Shop Fox as well. Not aware of any other brands to look at.

So three systems; two 2HP and one 3HP units. Any thoughts on the 2HP vs 3HP? The 3HP unit has a larger inlet (7" vs 6"), and a much greater static pressure (16.9" vs 10"). It is also a 2 filter/bag system vs the 1 filter/bag on the 2HP unit. Although the smaller 1 filter system might work better in my modest size shop. The 3HP is about $250 more than the 2HP unit. I do not want to have poor performance with a drop on the opposite side of the shop after four or five bends.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*don't leave out Grizzly*

http://www.grizzly.com/products/category/570000|570030|570010|570020
Check out the 3 HP dual cannister model at $625.00. They have cyclones for $795 also.
I have the 3 HP and it really "sucks".:yes:

I also use 2 mobile 1 1/2 HP Jets which I connect between a drum sander, 3 table saws, 2 planers and 2 jointers....depending on which tool I'm using at the time. The distance between them id less than 5 ft in each case and I only have to spin the unit on it's base to make the connection. I have no central hard piped system in the shop, BUT I do have a whole room air filtration unit also by Jet : JET 708620B AFS-1000B 550/702/1044 CFM 3-Speed Air Filtration System with Remote and Electrostatic Pre-Filter - Amazon.com

I highly recommend the room air filter, because you will not get the fine dust any other way. :no:

The best dust collection is right at it's source of origin. Use a Shop Vac or other more flexible hose for the small tool ports and over blade collection system ....a big dust generator on the table saw.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Yep -- the 3HP dual canister from Grizzly is one of the three on my list. 

I've seen those air filters and like the concept of them. I will likely add one down the road. I'd like to get a DC system now because of the ease of running the duct work, but I'd rather my next shop purchases be on the tools I've yet to acquire!


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

The 7" inlet shouldn't be a problem, and your performance might be enhanced by running the first few feet (maybe 5'-6') and the elbow right at the inlet, if one, in 7". At least that's what Oneida told me to do on mine. Then the 7" is reduced to 6"....in my case the 7" is HVAC snap lock which then transitions to 6" PVC. The advantage of the multiple filters is that they will need cleaned less often, though when they are cleaned it will (duh!) more work. Given your concern with the performance I'd go with the larger unit if space allows. As for the ambient air cleaner, building your own is very easy, they can function as well the commercial units, and not cost too much.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks. After sleeping on it I'm leaning towards the 3HP unit, but not fully committed yet. Keeping my eyes open for a Grizzly coupon. Going to see if I can't do a couple potential layouts for my current and hope-to-be tools to see if the dual canister will fit fine and work on the ducting and electrical layout.

Thanks for the tip on the DIY air cleaner; I will look into them.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Here is an initial layout I came up with. I actually have two threads going on right now; one in general discussion about shop planning for electrical/ducting/lighting/tool placement/etc and this one as a spinoff from it for more detailed questions specific to dust collection. I posted this in that thread already and not many comments, although amckenzie4 thought it might be a good idea to rotate my jointer and planer about 45 degrees so that I have more infeed and outfeed room. Sounds like a good idea, but it won't change my DC drops.

Thoughts on the layout? Especially in terms of DC? Is it better to have some of those tools closer to the DC? I think I will be able to have a rigid drop and connection to at least the table saw, drill press, miter saw, and jointer. The band saw and especially the router table will likely have a flex connection in case I need to pull them out from the wall. Flex for the flip cart for the planer/sander. Will the 3HP DC effectively collect dust from the miter saw on the other end of the shop? At least as effective as a DC can, as I've read where miter saws are one of the harder tools to get proper collection on.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

arrange to have the SCMS and router table on the same wall as the cabinets with counter. that way, the counter can function as support for one end of a miter table and the router table could be support for other side.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

One drop between the jointer and planer with gated branches running to each will be great. But I'm not sure how you'll deal with the TS. I have mine in the middle (sort of) of the room, and have the drop coming down the extreme right side, then runs under the extension into the cabinet. But with a workbench doubling as an outfeed table, that may not be so convenient. Miter saws aren't easy, I tried about 4 setups and gave up. I seriously doubt the placement of the miter saw will determine your success with it. But if you run your ducting with a line right down the center of the ceiling, you'll be easily able to get branches to everything. In my case mt router table has a 6" line to the back of the cabinet, so it sits about 12" away from the wall. If you haven't built yours yet, consider a method to plumb into the side of the cabinet if you want to avoid the stand off distance. Basically, it looks to me like your in good shape....:thumbsup:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

The one thing not mentioned that I noticed is you don't have any plans for a separator? That's extra cost and space but it is a big plus to have.

If it's in the budget this 2 hp model would be a good buy.

That dual canister 3hp model has aluminum impeller. That concerns me especially if no separator is in front of the impeller.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Well damn. I thought I knew what I wanted! Way to ruin that! LOL 

Any thoughts? Will the 2HP cyclone still be sufficient to power a 6" duct network? Would I be better off building a separator for the 3HP dual canister unit?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

BrandonD369 said:


> Well damn. I thought I knew what I wanted! Way to ruin that! LOL
> 
> Any thoughts? Will the 2HP cyclone still be sufficient to power a 6" duct network? Would I be better off building a separator for the 3HP dual canister unit?


You might but that aluminum impeller really makes me worry. I was looking at it saying man that is a sweet price, all while the little voice in my head kept saying. Where's the catch?:laughing:


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Googling around, there are quite a few DIY plans for making a separator. Even a couple you can buy for cheap like either of these:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25225&utm_source=gan&utm_medium=aff&utm_campaign=feed





I haven't been able to find one pre-made that has 6" inlets and outlets, though, so I'd probably be looking at making my own since I'd like to run my mains in 6" ducting with 4" drops.

Anyone else have an opinion on whether a dust separator is necessary? What about whether a 2HP would provide sufficient power for my duct network?


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

Fred Hargis said:


> One drop between the jointer and planer with gated branches running to each will be great. But I'm not sure how you'll deal with the TS. I have mine in the middle (sort of) of the room, and have the drop coming down the extreme right side, then runs under the extension into the cabinet. But with a workbench doubling as an outfeed table, that may not be so convenient. Miter saws aren't easy, I tried about 4 setups and gave up. I seriously doubt the placement of the miter saw will determine your success with it. But if you run your ducting with a line right down the center of the ceiling, you'll be easily able to get branches to everything. In my case mt router table has a 6" line to the back of the cabinet, so it sits about 12" away from the wall. If you haven't built yours yet, consider a method to plumb into the side of the cabinet if you want to avoid the stand off distance. Basically, it looks to me like your in good shape....:thumbsup:


Regarding the table saw, I was thinking maybe dropping at the bottom right corner of the workbench. Then it would turn horizontally towards the saw and into the cabinet. I could put a tee with a small fitting at the workbench height so I could connect small hand sanders. Thoughts?


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

That's more or less similar to my TS set up, and it will function well. My thoughts would be more along the lines of whther it would be in your way while your working on the bench. Try that, and if it doesn't work out you may have to reconfigure a little.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

BrandonD369 said:


> Googling around, there are quite a few DIY plans for making a separator. Even a couple you can buy for cheap like either of these:
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25225&utm_source=gan&utm_medium=aff&utm_campaign=feed
> Woodstock W1049 Large Dust Collection Separator - Amazon.com
> 
> ...


Making your separator is quite easy, and rewarding in that you get some experience working with your tools/wood.

Bob Willing made this cyclone, and I think if you have the room, it would be the best bet for you, and you could easily adapt it to fit the 6" ductwork that you want to run. You could probably also hang this on the wall above/next to your DC, and that might minimize some space. A build your own Thein is also an option, but it will cut down some on your airflow. 

If you build a separator, then the material that your impeller is made of really won't matter, because most of the time, the only other material that will reach it will be fine dust.

Just my 2 cents.... and now I'm broke!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

thegrgyle said:


> Making your separator is quite easy, and rewarding in that you get some experience working with your tools/wood.
> 
> Bob Willing made this cyclone, and I think if you have the room, it would be the best bet for you, and you could easily adapt it to fit the 6" ductwork that you want to run. You could probably also hang this on the wall above/next to your DC, and that might minimize some space. A build your own Thein is also an option, but it will cut down some on your airflow.
> 
> ...


I would agree you can make a separator because I have one. They take up more floor space and if your looking at the double bannister 3hp unit which is already quite large. You can always set it up similar to mine although with the double canister design it may be a little harder.

Thinking about the aluminum impeller. It may be ok I'm just leery because I know people that had steel impellers damaged by wood chunks. There's a reason it cost less with the aluminum instead of steel and it's not because steel cost more. It might be the manufacturing process but IDK.

You may also want to allow for a two ports for the TS the standard cabinet on and another smaller one for the over arm. Even if you don't have an overarm now you will likely want one later if your trully looking for good dust control.


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## BrandonD (Feb 14, 2013)

rrbrown said:


> I would agree you can make a separator because I have one. They take up more floor space and if your looking at the double bannister 3hp unit which is already quite large. You can always set it up similar to mine although with the double canister design it may be a little harder.
> 
> Thinking about the aluminum impeller. It may be ok I'm just leery because I know people that had steel impellers damaged by wood chunks. There's a reason it cost less with the aluminum instead of steel and it's not because steel cost more. It might be the manufacturing process but IDK.


I am not stuck on the 3HP unit. I'd be just as happy getting the 2HP canister unit and building a separator much like yours. I am just not sure if the 2HP will be sufficient for my duct setup? I don't even care for the dual canisters... if there was a 3HP 1 micron 1 canister style DC I'd be thrilled.


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