# Plane Question



## Santa's Workshop (May 16, 2011)

Is this http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005276/19315/groz--bench-plane-3-smooth-9.aspx going to be better than what I bought and immediately returned to Home Depot?

I probably can't spend what I should on a plane. Does anyone have a suggestion for a starter plane for a little shop work and door fitting.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

I think Woodriver is supposed to be a better value brand. Otherwise ebay has plenty of antique hand planes that you could tune up if money is more important than time.


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## Greg in Maryland (Jan 6, 2011)

Hey,

You probably would have to do the same amount of conditioning to a Groz as you would with an older Stanley (or similar) to get it to really work for you. Of course, with all the cosmoline that Groz slathers over their planes, you wouldn't have to worry about rust, just getting rid of the damned smell of cosmoline. 

I had the Groz set (Number 4 and a block plane) and hated it. I would not accept a Groz if you paid me. Well, only if you paid me lots and lots do drown my sorrows in good beer and Lie-Nielsen's!

As the other poster said, it might be worth looking at the Woodriver planes or ebays offerings. 

Alternatively, for $13 dollars (plus tax) go ahead and get it, play with it, find out what works and what does not, learn to recondition a plane, sharpen a blade, make a new knob and tote (handle), get frustrated with cheap and crappy tools, and then get rid of it in disgust.

At that point, you will be ready to restore a Stanley-type with no problems.

Greg


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I think Woodcraft sold the Groz line as the low cost line until they came out with their own Woodriver line, and now seem to be getting rid of the Groz models.

For $13 it is not a lot to spend even if this does not work out.

Be prepared to sharpen the blade, perhaps often. At the Groz price point, I expect the blade will not be best steel.

Also sharpen the leading edge of the cap iron. You need a good and firm contact between cap iron and blade to prevent shavings getting under the cap iron.

Set the cap iron about 1/32nd of an inch back from the edge of the blade.

You may be better off restoring an old Stanley from a local flea market or eBay.

There are many restoration threads on the forum. I posted one recently.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/latest-rust-bucket-planes-46494/


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## EricD (Jan 17, 2013)

I have to agree with the sentiment that for all the effort to get a plane working correctly, why waste time on a new plane when a nice vintage Bailey is waiting for you somewhere for ~$15.


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## Santa's Workshop (May 16, 2011)

In my box of old tools, I have a Craftsman plane that has been around since my dad had it before I was born. He worked for Sears for about 45 years starting in 1940. This plane is probably from the late 40s or early 50s. I set it on my table saw and the bed was dead flat. I am going to give cleaning it up a go.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Santa's Workshop said:


> In my box of old tools, I have a Craftsman plane that has been around since my dad had it before I was born. He worked for Sears for about 45 years starting in 1940. This plane is probably from the late 40s or early 50s. I set it on my table saw and the bed was dead flat. I am going to give cleaning it up a go.


That is what we like to read. Give a plane a second life. :thumbsup:

How about posting a picture, we love to see pictures.


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## Santa's Workshop (May 16, 2011)

My first attempt at putting photos in a post. Hope it worked. A couple of before shots...



















Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Santa's Workshop said:


> My first attempt at putting photos in a post. Hope it worked. A couple of before shots...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


The rust may look bad to you, but it looks to be superficial to me.

Evapo-Rust will do a great job to remove the rust, but not attack the paint.

The plane should clean up and look good.

It is a lower end Stanley plane, but worthwhile restoring for the family connection.

It can become a useful plane.


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## JQMack (Sep 24, 2011)

I'd agree with Dave on the rust. I have a no 7 I use all the time that started out in much worse shape. A little time in evapo rust can do wonders.


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## texasfl0od (Nov 28, 2012)

good afternoon to you all . when i first got into hand planes i bought a #3 ,#4, and a #5 groz planes from woodcraft . there is quite a bit of controversy as to whether these planes are any good or not . i did spend time properly sharpening , honing and setting up the groz planes which in truth proved to be invaluable as a sort of one person class in setting up hand planes . i was able to get farly nice shavings from the groz planes but i did after a few months decide to but a set of vintage stanley/ dunlap hand planes so i sold the groz planes to my nephew . i also have a few lee valley and lie nielson planes and there is probably no amount of working a groz plane to make them equal the high quality planes . in my opinion , for the price the groz #3, #4 and #5 planes would be good to start off with to learn about sharpening , honing and setting up planes and when you have gained a working knowledge of and a good technique with hand planes you could start buying old stanley - millers falls (dunlap)- sargent , which are older vintage planes and often are ready to use out of the box . of the newly manufactured hand planes lee valley - lie nielson - wood river and others are very good planes but quite expensive . i bought most of my hand planes through e bay and have built up a nice little collection of working handplanes including a full set of stanley transitional planes that i treasure . i hope this helps you with your question but i must warn you - buying that first plane usually opens the door for buying a second and a third and before you know what happened you have fifty or so planes , it happens all the time !


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## Woodwart (Dec 11, 2012)

Yeah, three or four years ago I had two planes. Now I have about 30. They just followed me home, honest!


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## Santa's Workshop (May 16, 2011)

What the what? I took apart my dad's old plane to start the restoration. The two "wood" parts are plastic. I'm revising the age estimate to the early to mid 1960's. 

I'm also working on a Stanley No. 34. No plastic parts there!

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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

> Yeah, three or four years ago I had two planes. Now I have about 30. They just followed me home, honest!


It can be somewhat addicting huh?


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## Santa's Workshop (May 16, 2011)

I don't think that I'm all the way to the dark side (as some of you have written), but I see the potential. I've added old planes to the list of approved estate sale purchases for the Mrs.

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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

yep, i went to an estate sale today and picked up a stanley plane. but it appears to be a type 20 or later because it is blue and the tote and front knobs are both black. but i got it and a nice hand drill with 3 bits, a 1 1/2" chisel, and another plane iron for $20, so i'm not complaining.


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## EricD (Jan 17, 2013)

Chris Curl said:


> ...but it appears to be a type 20....


That's a nice plane. People love slag type 16-20 Stanleys, I think there's good reasons to favor them over older versions. Price, modern metals, modern quality control are some of the better ones.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

But there is an opposing view as well. Some believe the quality tanked after type 16. I'm a bit in the middle up to type 20. 16 to 20 need a little more attention to make them work well, but they can be made to work well. 

I just tuned a type 21 yesterday. I haven't tested it yet, but I won't go out of my way to find more of them.


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## EricD (Jan 17, 2013)

timetestedtools said:


> ...16 to 20 need a little more attention to make them work well....


Type 15 has the same body as early 16, same frog, same blade without sweetheart. Later 16 have a ridge on the body but all the other parts are the same.

What do you do to make a 16-19 work well compared to a 15?


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

timetestedtools said:


> But there is an opposing view as well. Some believe the quality tanked after type 16. I'm a bit in the middle up to type 20. 16 to 20 need a little more attention to make them work well, but they can be made to work well.
> 
> I just tuned a type 21 yesterday. I haven't tested it yet, but I won't go out of my way to find more of them.


can you post your reference for the types? the one i have been using stops at type 20 ...

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating_flowchart.php#Types 1-20


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

> can you post your reference for the types?


I've got a section with links to dating sites here Chris, http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24092
And type 20 was the last real type. Type 21 typically refers to anything after that, but its never (or I've never seen it)included in a type study.



> What do you do to make a 16-19 work well compared to a 15?


Eric, the statement is "after type 16". Type 16 falls into the "good" category. As they get closer to type 20, and certainly after that, you'll find it takes a lot more grinding to get the sole flat, more sanding to get the frog flat, the irons don't seem as strong and so forth. The worst part is its inconsistent. You'll get one that's real good, then the next will be a bitch.

I just tuned a Blue stanley with the black handle. If your interest watch my site, I should be posting a blog sometime this week about it.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

timetestedtools said:


> I just tuned a Blue stanley with the black handle. If your interest watch my site, I should be posting a blog sometime this week about it.


this one sounds very much like the one i just picked up

on mine, the handles are black, and they look like plastic, but i haven't taken them off to be 100% sure that they are


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

Aluminum frog? Mine had an aluminum frog that took some work. Being aluminum it worked pretty easy.


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