# Wall Mount Vanity in need of much advice/critiques



## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

Howdy folks! i'm in the process of remodeling my house and am very interested in building my own wall mount dual vessel sink vanity for one of the bathrooms. 

i've put together a quick sketch and am looking for your advice in regard to some concerns i have.

General Description:
The Outer Box: 1 1/2" thick Baltic Birch Plywood
Vertical Support: 3/4" thick Baltic Birch Plywood
Drawer Faces: 3/4" thick Baltic Birch Plywood
Drawer Box: 1/2" plywood
Back Panel: 3/4" plywood
Dimensions are: 71" W x 22" D x 20" H

Contemporary Design, Wall Mounted, Finished Surface with Polyurethane... supports 2 rectangular vessel sinks.

Mounts flushed on the back side and right side walls

Questions:
1) for the outer box, my noob thoughts were to sandwich 2 layers of 3/4" baltic birch (finished thickness of 1 1/2"), cut 45deg edges for miter joints. to construct the entire outer box this way, will it be too heavy?

2) the miter joint (?) along the outer corners of the outer box, is it going to be durable enough? i was considering to screw in from the sides if needed... or use a metal L bracket from the underside, so long as they are not visible

3) the back panel for the vanity box is 3/4" ply... is this strong enough? even with using 1 1/2" sandwiched plywood outer box?

4) should i consider creating hollow core panels for the bottom to save on weight?

5) to fasten the upper and lower horizontal outer panels, i am considering using metal L bracket from inside the drawer box and just use wood screws from the bottom to the vertical drawer box sides.

sorry for my noobish terminology... 
looking for as much advice/comments as possible.

thank you in advance for your advice.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

kinghong1970 said:


> Questions:
> 1) for the outer box, my noob thoughts were to sandwich 2 layers of 3/4" baltic birch (finished thickness of 1 1/2"), cut 45deg edges for miter joints. to construct the entire outer box this way, will it be too heavy?


You only need a single layer of 3/4" plywood.



kinghong1970 said:


> 2) the miter joint (?) along the outer corners of the outer box, is it going to be durable enough? i was considering to screw in from the sides if needed... or use a metal L bracket from the underside, so long as they are not visible.


For the two outside corners of the top, I would use a miter lock bit.



kinghong1970 said:


> 3) the back panel for the vanity box is 3/4" ply... is this strong enough? even with using 1 1/2" sandwiched plywood outer box?


For the back 3/4" ply is more than adequate. Installed correctly, you could use 1/2".



kinghong1970 said:


> 4) should i consider creating hollow core panels for the bottom to save on weight?


I would use the same plywood as the rest of the case.



kinghong1970 said:


> 5) to fasten the upper and lower horizontal outer panels, i am considering using metal L bracket from inside the drawer box and just use wood screws from the bottom to the vertical drawer box sides.


I would rabbet the bottom of the ends to accept the floor. For the two interior dividers, I would dado the floor and the inside of the top to fit those. You would need to apply some front edge trim, or use iron wood veneer tape.












 







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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> You only need a single layer of 3/4" plywood.


hmm... i wanted to maintain a thicker outer box look... 



cabinetman said:


> For the two outside corners of the top, I would use a miter lock bit.


thank you... will look into this asap!




cabinetman said:


> For the back 3/4" ply is more than adequate. Installed correctly, you could use 1/2".


thanks!



cabinetman said:


> I would use the same plywood as the rest of the case.


noted, thanks!



cabinetman said:


> I would rabbet the bottom of the ends to accept the floor. For the two interior dividers, I would dado the floor and the inside of the top to fit those. You would need to apply some front edge trim, or use iron wood veneer tape.


noted, will work on revised drawing

thank you very much for your reply!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

kinghong1970 said:


> hmm... i wanted to maintain a thicker outer box look...


Using 1 1/2" of ply would be extremely heavy. I would make a face frame to the the thickness you want.

As for the lock miter If you use a face frame you won't need it. Just cut a dado in the sides to except a tongue that you will cut on the top and bottom. 

Cut a 1/2" rabbet on the back of all 4 pieces for the 1/2" back to fit in. ( Glue and a few brads will lock it in nicely.)

I agree with cabinet man on everything else. You mentioned the 1 1/2 thickness you wanted after his post so we may agree on that as well.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*Visual Direction*

Kinghong,

I would suggest following this video sequence. The box he builds is similar to the advice you have been given. It may serve you well in you build. Good luck and look forward to seeing your progression!

Johnny


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

wow! thanks for the vid link... 

lots to learn there!

hmm... i'll put up a revised sketch shortly.

i'm just obsessed with wall hanging and miter joints at the moment... it's my addiction for the moment...


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

kinghong1970 said:


> wow! thanks for the vid link...
> 
> lots to learn there!
> 
> ...


then I say that's what you go with. that's the beauty of diy..if you dream it you can make it (maybe lol..) I say go for what you like..only if it will work though. I think any suggestion provided here is given to only enhance any idea you can come up with. Somethings are suggested to strengthen the actual build while some may be provided to show alternative methods, and some just really show you the possibilities of you doing it yourself. Live and learn with these guys and your eyes get you in trouble though once you see what they make.


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

Howdy again folks!

just came back from a local cabinet shop and saw some wall mounted vanities and came back with some concerns...

my vanity is pretty wide, from 60 to 70" wide and supporting a bit of stuff...
my brother raises a major concern... will it come off the wall, say, if my kids hang from the vanity and such?

some wall mount vanity suggest just a strip of miter cut plywood and seating the vanity up against it... as shown in the mounting instruction (pdf) on this link
whereas another brand supplies metal bracket and a device to help it level as seen here under mounting instruction file

now are these enough?
do i need to add metal brackets to support it?

again, thanks in advance for your replies.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Kinghong,

The place you are living, do you own? I ask because I am wondering if opening the wall and placing some backing additional support is an option for such a size vanity.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

kinghong1970 said:


> Howdy again folks!
> 
> just came back from a local cabinet shop and saw some wall mounted vanities and came back with some concerns...
> 
> ...


Wall mounted cabinets when constructed with a hang rail, or a substantial back (1/2" ply minimum) secured in a rabbet, are best installed with screws into studs (either wood or metal), or in wall grounds. Properly done, will afford all the support needed.

For an ease of installation, or an easy way of leveling a wall mounted cabinet, a "french cleat" mounting method makes installation easier, but not necessarily better. There still is the integrity of the cabinet cleat and how well that is fixed to the cabinet. It's the same method as a hang rail. So however installed affords a component to mounting to the wall.

Taking the "french cleat" method a step further, the wall member of the cleat has to be installed properly in order to make the mating of the two cleats a binding attachment to the wall. In using a "french cleat", the wall member is the basic difference in what may fail in the attachment to the wall, over just using a hang rail. It's just another piece to the parts that's an oddball. 

Properly configured and installed, a "french cleat" method is a good mounting method, and can allow easy install/uninstall if needed. It does require more of the cabinet depth to accommodate the members. IMO, a direct mounting of a cabinet with a hang rail is still my first choice.












 







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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

abetrman said:


> Kinghong,
> 
> The place you are living, do you own? I ask because I am wondering if opening the wall and placing some backing additional support is an option for such a size vanity.


yessir! i own the house... it was built in '85 and over the years, it's in serious need of some renovations...

opening up the drywall is possible, i can install some backing support... but atm, being such a nub, what and how?


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Wall mounted cabinets when constructed with a hang rail, or a substantial back (1/2" ply minimum) secured in a rabbet, are best installed with screws into studs (either wood or metal), or in wall grounds. Properly done, will afford all the support needed.
> 
> For an ease of installation, or an easy way of leveling a wall mounted cabinet, a "french cleat" mounting method makes installation easier, but not necessarily better. There still is the integrity of the cabinet cleat and how well that is fixed to the cabinet. It's the same method as a hang rail. So however installed affords a component to mounting to the wall.
> 
> ...


learn something new every day...

so now i know what those thingamajiggy is called... french cleat!

do you have any source for the hang rail?
can't seem to find any image/source for it.

closest thing i've found was a DIN rail over from mcmasters... but not sure if that is what you mean.

thanks for that detailed reply.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

kinghong1970 said:


> do you have any source for the hang rail?
> can't seem to find any image/source for it.
> 
> closest thing i've found was a DIN rail over from mcmasters... but not sure if that is what you mean.
> ...


A hang rail is nothing more than a strip of wood or plywood (can come from shop scrap...nothing extra to buy), commonly 3/4" thick by 2.5" to 3" or more that gets mounted between the ends of a cabinet and to the underside of the top of the cabinet (for an upper wall mount cabinet). It can be installed behind a 1/4" back (which requires a rabbet deep enough for the rail and back and any scribed figured in).

Or, it can be mounted ahead of the back, which would make it visible on the inside of the cabinet. That's not usually objectionable.

For base cabinets, I make an "L" shaped rail which is 3/4" wood or plywood glued and screwed as a 90 degree angle, approximately 3"x3" that gets mounted to the ends of the cabinet at the rear. The top of the rail is flush with the top of the ends, and the 3" depth is used to install counter tops. The vertical portion of the angle is used to screw the cabinet to the wall. Cabinet dividers are notched to fit the hang rail.

These rails can be set into rabbets for the back, and glued and clamped. They can be toe screwed from the inside of the cabinet, screwed through the outside of the ends of cabinets where the ends don't show. For finished ends, a blind trim screw, or brad nails can be used and the holes filled and touched up.









 







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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

kinghong1970 said:


> yessir! i own the house... it was built in '85 and over the years, it's in serious need of some renovations...
> 
> opening up the drywall is possible, i can install some backing support... but atm, being such a nub, what and how?


Backing was my thought at first but after reading c-mans suggestion, I think the french cleat method is simpler and cleaner. He is definitly more experienced with what you are trying to do so I would defer to his suggestions as opposed to mines. Besides, with this being a plumbing wall, not too sure what you will have available behind the wall in terms of space.

Johnny


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

thank you both for your continued support...

did 90% of demo today, found i had a leak that leaked water into my closet wall and had some mold issue, so replacing drywall atm.
tomorrow, i'm going to remove my old 70" vanity and from the looks of it, i'll go with a 60" wide double sink vanity and so i do need to remove the sheetrock and reposition the pipes some.

while doing so, i guess i can add additional reinforcement between the joists but the french cleat seems to be the easier way at going at this.

did some thinking and worst case scenario, i can easily add a single leg to the floor in the middle of the vanity if "tipping over" is a concern still.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

If a french cleat method is used, I offer the following tips.

Ease the sharp edges on the 45. This will make them easier to handle. It will also help prevent breaking off slivers when installing. With eased (and the edge shortened slightly) will allow the two pieces to mate without bottoming out.

When installing the cabinet member to the cabinet, if 3/4" stock is used for the cleat, recess the mounting to a 7/8" depth. This allows the cabinet member to pull the cabinet all the way to the wall, as it won't bottom out. That 1/8" gap to its rear provides that movement.












 







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