# Shaker style Kitchen cabinet doors



## Gerry KIERNAN

I have some questions for the cabinet builders out there.

My friend and I are going to build some very plain Shaker style cabinet doors. He has this style of doors in his house now, and would like to match the cabinetry to them. The frame material is 3/4 by 2-1/2 Douglas fir. It is not old growth, but is very straight grain second growth. The flat panels will be made from cabinet grade vertcal grain fir veneered mdf, G2S. 

1 Do the panels have to float, or can they be glued into the frames?

2 If the panels have to float how much clearance should we leave around the edges? 

3 What would be the best joinery to use for the jointing of the frames? The top and bottom of the frames will be a simple butt joint to the sides, to match the doors.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Gerry


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## mdntrdr

You can glue the panels, allthough I would still cut them an 1/8" undersized.

You could spline FF joints, but I don't think it is needed, will be glued to cabinets, correct? :smile:

Sorry, I think I missunderstood your post.

If you are calling door rails and stiles the frame, then run your panel grooves full length and add a tenon to rails to fill groove in stiles.


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## cabinetman

Gerry KIERNAN said:


> I have some questions for the cabinet builders out there.
> 
> My friend and I are going to build some very plain Shaker style cabinet doors. He has this style of doors in his house now, and would like to match the cabinetry to them. The frame material is 3/4 by 2-1/2 Douglas fir. It is not old growth, but is very straight grain second growth. The flat panels will be made from cabinet grade vertcal grain fir veneered mdf, G2S.
> 
> 1 Do the panels have to float, or can they be glued into the frames?


They can be glued to the frames.



Gerry KIERNAN said:


> 3What would be the best joinery to use for the jointing of the frames? The top and bottom of the frames will be a simple butt joint to the sides, to match the doors.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any input.
> 
> Gerry


If you are referring to the face frames, their joinery doesn't necessarily have to match the doors, but can. You could use M&T, half lap, or a splined butt joint. 

For the doors, you could use R&S (cope and stick), or half laps (which are pretty darn strong).












 







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## Gerry KIERNAN

Thank you for your responses gentlemen.

1 I was hoping we could glue the flat panels to the rails and stiles [I never remeber the correct terms] THis will definitely make construction simpler.

2 The 1/8 inch you refer to would be total undersize, correct?

3 My first inclination was to use splines to joint the rails and stiles, but the joint would be visible at the top and bottom of the doors. My friend isn't too sure he wants to see them. His thought was to use biscuits to joint them. He has offered to buy a biscuit jointer.

Scott: The doors will be hinged to the cabinets.

Thanks again gentlemen. Always a pleasure to receive advice from the experts.

Gerry


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## mdntrdr

Gerry KIERNAN said:


> The 1/8 inch you refer to would be total undersize, correct?


 
Correct. :smile:


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## cabinetman

mdntrdr said:


> You can glue the panels, allthough I would still cut them an 1/8" undersized.


I've always sized the panel exactly so it squares the panel. If a half lap is used, the joint between the stiles and rails will be vertical, and line up at the edges of the rails, just like a R&S door. No splines would be needed. 












 







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## craftsman jay

1. I was taught they couldn't be glued, except for maybe a dab in the middle. but that might of been solid wood. 

2. Cut to full size. Joint each side 1/16". Or 1/8" short from side to side, top to bottom. Pin nailed in the center of the "stile". Or spaceballs. 

3. Mortise & tenon, or Domino.


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## Leo G

If it was MDF I'd say glue it. But with plywood you will still have wood movement, not as much as solid, but it still moves. I would say let it float.


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## Gerry KIERNAN

We have constructed the first five doors, and hung a pair of them up yesterday. They look pretty good, except for one handle being a 1/4 inch lower than the other. I will make a new jig for that. We are cutting the mdf panels full size, and dadoing the rails and stiles 1/2 inch deep. The sides are stop dadoed, and the top and bottom are dadoed right through., so it just looks like a clean butt joint. We are then gluing the panels into the dadoes and assembling the doors with a line of glue in the butt joints. We are clamping them up, and then clamping them to the old doors to keep them flat and square. This seems to working well so far. 

Thanks for all the advice.

Gerry


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## mdntrdr

Gerry KIERNAN said:


> We have constructed the first five doors, and hung a pair of them up yesterday. They look pretty good, except for one handle being a 1/4 inch lower than the other. I will make a new jig for that. We are cutting the mdf panels full size, and dadoing the rails and stiles 1/2 inch deep. The sides are stop dadoed, and the top and bottom are dadoed right through., so it just looks like a clean butt joint. We are then gluing the panels into the dadoes and assembling the doors with a line of glue in the butt joints. We are clamping them up, and then clamping them to the old doors to keep them flat and square. This seems to working well so far.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice.
> 
> Gerry


I wish you luck, but, butt jointed doors may not last. :smile:


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## Jordy3738

This is a great video for making shaker doors. I guess if you've already started making them I'm too late. Well, perhaps someone else can benefit from watching it.


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## cabinetman

mdntrdr said:


> I wish you luck, but, butt jointed doors may not last. :smile:



It's not just a butt joint, a panel is glued into the frame, which adds to keeping the joint together. Considering all the glue surface for the panel, all that would have to fail for the butt joint to fail.

Even with a glued panel, I would have done some type of joinery. If it wasn't a C&S, I might do half laps, or a stub tenon.












 







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## Gerry KIERNAN

mdntrdr said:


> I wish you luck, but, butt jointed doors may not last. :smile:


 That is a possibility. I have worked out a fix if there are any issues down the road.

Gerry


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## Gerry KIERNAN

Jordy3738 said:


> This is a great video for making shaker doors. I guess if you've already started making them I'm too late. Well, perhaps someone else can benefit from watching it.


Actually, we assembled the last of the doors yesterday.
Never too late. I watched the video. That is a straight forward way to do them, but I didn't think my friend would want to see the joint.

I think if I do a similar set in the future I would probably do it as shown in the video.

Gerry


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## Gerry KIERNAN

cabinetman said:


> It's not just a butt joint, a panel is glued into the frame, which adds to keeping the joint together. Considering all the glue surface for the panel, all that would have to fail for the butt joint to fail.
> 
> Even with a glued panel, I would have done some type of joinery. If it wasn't a C&S, I might do half laps, or a stub tenon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I am relying on the panel for the strength to hold everything together.
The method in the video would probably be almost as easy, and result in very little showing in the way of a joint.

Gerry



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## Gerry KIERNAN

Thank you for all your input gentlemen. This has definitely been a learning curve.

Gerry


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## jonathann

*aluminum cabinet doors*

Hi! I have a great request to you
I want to know something about aluminum cabinet doors. Where i can buy something like that in the denver area? please help


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## cabinetman

jonathann said:


> Hi! I have a great request to you
> I want to know something about aluminum cabinet doors. Where i can buy something like that in the denver area? please help


 





 
If you start your own thread you will get a better response.











 







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## Jim West Pa

Jordy3738 said:


> This is a great video for making shaker doors. I guess if you've already started making them I'm too late. Well, perhaps someone else can benefit from watching it.


 Won't be long till that boy loses a finger or hand !!!
No push stick !!
No stop block !!
No insert !!
:blink:


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