# Denatured Alcohol



## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

and Shellac...

The town I live in is small and I can't find any denatured alcohol.
Is Methyl Hydrate the same thing? There are several places in town selling it, but nobody knows what it is for... They use it as gas-line de-icer... :lol: and it works for that.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

So many people have asked that question on google that when you start typing

methyl hydrate vs denatured alcohol

you don't even have to finish it. The internet is a great tool. It would serve you well to learn how to use it.


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## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

Already tried the Google thing and realized I didn't finish my Chemistry degree.
I thought it was appropriate to ask a straight forward question here and get a straight forward reply.

From reading the Google results, it 'appears' to be equivalent, and thought the wood finishers here might supply an answer.


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## pabloj13 (Dec 10, 2009)

jlhaslip said:


> Already tried the Google thing and realized I didn't finish my Chemistry degree.
> I thought it was appropriate to ask a straight forward question here and get a straight forward reply.
> 
> From reading the Google results, it 'appears' to be equivalent, and thought the wood finishers here might supply an answer.


Nope. Denatured alcohol is ethanol with something added to it so that it cannot be consumed (thus avoiding alcohol tax). Normally it is methanol added to it (~10%).

Methyl hydrate is pure methanol.

They are very different.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

I buy Denatured Alcohol at home centers here. It is usually carried in the paint department. Most paint stores should carry it. 

I see that you are about 5 hours from Calgary. Wow, that's a long way to a major city.

If you have paint stores in Golden, they may be willing to order it for you. If there is a bulk fuel depot in your area, they probably have it in large drums. You'll probably need a metal can to purchase the alcohol. Some of the "old time" gas stations carried all kinds of solvents in drums for sale in bulk.

Finally if you know of someone that regularly goes between Golden and Calgary you may be able to get them to shop for you.

If, as someone has suggested, methyl hydrate is methyl alcohol, I would not attempt to use it with shellac. Methyl alcohol has a lower flash point (Temperature needed to start combustion) and evaporates much quicker than denatured alcohol. The flash point would be my greatest concern.


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## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

about 3 1/2 hours if you drive safely.
I've been to all the local stores, checked Google and wikipedia, still not convinced that methyl hydrate will work.

might need to head into the city... my annual trip for pieces and parts... :lol:


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## wletson (Jan 11, 2010)

phinds said:


> So many people have asked that question on google that when you start typing
> 
> methyl hydrate vs denatured alcohol
> 
> you don't even have to finish it. The internet is a great tool. It would serve you well to learn how to use it.


 
I would think if someone asks a good honest question, some respect should be shown. I've found that the majority of members here are helpful and good natured, not mean spirited.

sorry jhaslip, no help from here!


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## pabloj13 (Dec 10, 2009)

rrich said:


> If, as someone has suggested, methyl hydrate is methyl alcohol, I would not attempt to use it with shellac. Methyl alcohol has a lower flash point (Temperature needed to start combustion) and evaporates much quicker than denatured alcohol. The flash point would be my greatest concern.


These are the synonyms for methanol from IUPAC:
Methyl alcohol;	Alcohol, methyl;	Methyl hydroxide; Methylol;	Wood Spirit; Monohydroxymethane; Methyl hydrate;	

They are the same.
http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu/metabolomics/gen_metab_summary_5.php?molName=Methanol#SYNONYMS


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## shopsmithtom (Nov 3, 2009)

I'm glad I'm not the only one to note the tone of one of the above replies. Being pretty new here, I didn't want to jump in & make any enemies, but I, too, believe this should be a helpful place to share woodworking info, that's why I landed here.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

I stand corrected ... my comment was rude and snippy and I apologize. Don't know what gets into me sometimes. Sorry.

Paul


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## shopsmithtom (Nov 3, 2009)

Thanks for the apology. I makes me feel good about this site & about the day in general. It takes a good person to do that.


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## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

Googling the information and reading Wikipedia provides no definitive answer. It seems that methyl hydrate 'may' work as a shellac solvent but it flashes off quicker than denatured alcohol, so maybe the question I posed in the opening post of this topic is not really the correct one.

Does anyone have any experience using methyl hydrate as a shellac solvent? Is it effectively the same in application? Any tricks to using it?

Thanks.


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## JW_in_Indy (Mar 20, 2009)

And I always wondered what made the alcohol "denatured." I mean, does nature somehow have a propriatary alcohol and some evil thing has been done to it to "de-nature" it? LOL.... obviously I'm kidding. 

Don't worry Paul, all of us have our moments I suppose. And JL.... I've been buying and using the stuff so long I couldn't imagine it not being available. It's always right there next to the turpentine, acetone, naptha, mineral spirits, lacquer thinner and paint thinner. So I did a little searching for you and it seems that in Canada, denatured alcohol isn't readily available. It appears that denatured alcohol we use here in the states is Ethanol based and made from grain where as the Methyl Hydrate you folks have available is Methenol based made from wood.... http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=16689 Of course, that was just in another forum discussion that I ran across so I have no clue as to it's accuracy. Interesting dilema though and I bet one you'd love to get to the bottom of eh?

Sorry I'm not much help either.


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## JW_in_Indy (Mar 20, 2009)

It does appear that Methyl Hydrate can indeed be used for dissolving shellac flakes. Again, from a forum so I don't know about accuracy....

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50008

Any Home Depot's nearby?

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...ode+matchall&recN=118480&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


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## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

JW,
that might explain all the funny looks I got when I asked for 'denatured alcohol'. :lol:

Lee Valley has a 'Shellac Solvent', but it is $13.50 for a quart plus $13.00 freight. 

I wonder if the Pharmacy sells it???


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## wletson (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, the 13 dollars shipping from Lee Valley would be cheaper than driving the 3 1/2 hours both ways to go to Calgary! :smile:


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

This site may help...

http://www.shellac.net/


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## sofalinux (May 28, 2009)

*Understanding your Materials*

http://www.artsparx.com/Undmatsolv.html

http://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/paint_thinners_solvents.html


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

You could always use vodka if only want small quantity, Iso Propyl Alcohol (IPA) may also be a possiblity. It is sold for cleaning electronic parts.
Have been reports occasionally in press in UK that desperate motorist bought vodka to eak out the petrol in his car and get home.
johnep


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