# My baby crib to be...



## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

So I decided to post a progress report of the baby crib I'm building for my little one thats coming in Oct. I'll start from the begining. My uncle has more misc wood in his shop than he knows what to do with. Well he gave my an ARS load of black walnut, cherry and has an ungodly amount of red oak beams that are mine for the taking. Anyway, so last night I finally found the time to start on the crib. I figured I would start out with the legs and go from there. 1st I had to tape a bunch of construction paper together b/c I couldn't find our large roll of paper. So that was fun, 2nd I scetched out what the legs would look like and cut out the pattern. So today I made a template from 1/2 MDF for the legs and got it fine tuned. Then I wrestled the 6/4+12" black walnut boards, there was 2 of them and both about 10' long. Took them to the planer and started making alot of noise and an even bigger mess. Well after a few passes through the planner I noticed that the walnut was actually curled black walnut. Man, was that a nice surprise or what. After that I traced the pattern onto the walnut and rought cut it with a jigsaw. Tomorrow I'm gonna try to set up the router table and take a flush cut bit to the pattern and walnut and pray for good results. Anyway, here are some pics I took today..Jeremy


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## stuart (Jan 20, 2008)

nice grooves.... and grain I might add.


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

Lucky you, that's some beautiful wood you scored. Watch the curves when following that pattern around. It will want to tear out when you round the curve and the bit is pulling away from the stock instead of cutting in towards it. Good luck.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah, I wish I would have known that a little bit sooner. I was cutting the last board out with the flush bit and it grabbed something and took out a section about 2" by 14" long tapered on both ends. Im thinking I must have had a split in the wood I didn't see. Seeing that I don't have anymore walnut that size I tried cutting the tearout straight and glued another peice to it. Im prayin this will work. Then to make matters even worse, I bought a new Freud flush cut bit this morning and while trimming one of the boards the bearing came off and it went straight into the board about have the diameter of the bit. Any ideas?


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Ok, so today I fixed all the mistakes I made yesterday and even had time to make the side rails before calling it a day.


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## lucas.j.dunton (Feb 27, 2008)

how did you join the feet to the rails? Biscuits or mortise and tenon?


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## MrRodeoCC (Mar 15, 2008)

Thats going to be a pretty piece when it is done. :thumbsup:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey Lucas, I haven't joined them yet, I just clamped them up just to get a idea of what they where going to look like. The way I have decided to join them is to use regular bed rail hardware (the kind that slides into a grove and you push down and it locks into place). I'm hoping to start on that Tuesday. I'm working at the Fire Dept today otherwise that would be todays goal.


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## Marko (Feb 11, 2008)

Jeremy,nice work! and the Walnut ain't too shabby either.Those curls 'll be the first thing you notice everytime you enter the room.Hey,I'm sure you've seen these but my son's crib is a "lifetime" crib/bed meaning when he hit 2 and was able to swandive into the floor from the top platform we removed the front slat portion of the crib ,put in a small piece that came with it and changed it into a daybed at a 3 yr.old's height.Now when he grad's from that we will get a double size mattress or Queen (i can't remember the dim's)and use the back portion of the crib for the headboard.This getup will be the last bed we buy and last him through highschool.I just wanted to throw that atcha cause alot of manufacturer;'s are heading this way because of the concept and affordability.It's what sold us!:yes: Your just getting into this and you'll basically have to make 3 extra stowable parts.Daybed front rail roughly 5'x 8" and 2 bedrails roughly 6'x 8" these are just stock dim's do not take this seriously but an interesting concept to think about. Nice work! Mark


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks Mark, Yeah, I'm going to build it so that it will transform into a toddler bed and then a twin. It should definetly save a little $$$ later.


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## Marko (Feb 11, 2008)

Jeremy,I feel your pain buddy,the bad and freaky  that can present itself during a project is enough to make us wanna throw our hands up to the sky and cry "oh god WHY!!!!!!"i think your doing a fantastic job and look forward to following your project,:thumbsup: I mean this is edge of your seat stuff man,bearings fallin out and all :yes: ......I'm kidding buddy.You've seemed to have kept your composure throughout so I'm sure your fit to continue.:thumbsup: Lookin' forward to the next chapter too :wallbash: ..Mark


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## Weird Woody (Mar 2, 2008)

Mistakes are never mistakes if you can fix and over come them.
They just become part of the learning curve.

my 2 cents

OH! very beautiful! I cant wait to see it finished.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Ok, so yesterday I decided to work on the yard and not the crib. Today my goal was to get all the bed rail hardware mortised and installed. Well, I got that finished but for some reason the hardware just doesn't have a tight fit. I haven't ever used this type of hardware but I thought it would be kinda self explainatory. The photo below is exactly what I'm using. Has anyone else ran into this problem or know a way to make this hardware fit tighter? It's actually so loose that I can barely pick up on one side and the entire thing will fall apart. Anyway, let me know if you might have a solution..Thanks, Jeremy


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## Weird Woody (Mar 2, 2008)

Inset the male side a little deeper. that will force the joint together more.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks man, I'll have to give that a try.


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## Stick (Aug 23, 2007)

firefighteremt153 said:


> Ok, so yesterday I decided to work on the yard and not the crib. Today my goal was to get all the bed rail hardware mortised and installed. Well, I got that finished but for some reason the hardware just doesn't have a tight fit. I haven't ever used this type of hardware but I thought it would be kinda self explainatory. The photo below is exactly what I'm using. Has anyone else ran into this problem or know a way to make this hardware fit tighter? It's actually so loose that I can barely pick up on one side and the entire thing will fall apart. Anyway, let me know if you might have a solution..Thanks, Jeremy


It's possible you've counter-sunk both pieces of the hardware a little too far, thus not allowing the hardware to come all the way together.... just a thought. I can't really tell from the picture.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Im at work today/tonight and havent been able to try anything to fix this but both pieces of hardware are flush with the wood and when you attach them, they are really loose and the male side slides all the way to the bottom of the female insert. So I think woody may have the right idea on how to fix this. I'm gonna give it a try tomorrow and see if that fixes it. Thanks, guys


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## MrRodeoCC (Mar 15, 2008)

Make sure the screw heads are flush with the plates, a head sticking up will prevent the parts from seating properly, also recessing too far can cause the parts to not fully seat making the bed too easy to get apart (IE kids bouncing on the bed). the 2 plates need to fully engage and slide together getting to the deepest point of the V.


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

I've used those a couple times with the same results as you. I ended up putting a couple of heavy L brackets on the insides of the corners to sure it up a bit. The lateral slats that spanned the frame gives it more rigidity also.

Can't wait to see that finished. Looks great.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey Woody, I tried your advice and that seem to fix the problem. They're pretty snug but in the future I think I'm gonna use a different type of hardware. 

Thanks for the compliment Joesdad, believe me, I was so frusturated the other day that I was about to just use 16d nails on the thing and be done with it. haha. Glad I put my tools down and came here to seek advice. I'll post some newer pics in a few. Still waiting for the caffeine to kick in now.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Here's some updates pictures of the crib legs and rail and the end grain/leg mortises. The grain on the legs is really gonna look good when I finish it.


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## stuart (Jan 20, 2008)

silver with meduim to dark grain looks really cool on the 3rd from left pix


one of the screw heads [far end,foreground] may be uneven on the plate - just telling yah..


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## Weird Woody (Mar 2, 2008)

:thumbsup: Glad to see it worked. Yeah i don't much care for that type of hardware either.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

I haven't givin up on building this crib. I have been so busy with my side job and then realizing that my sisters birthday was in 2 days and I haven't even made her anything yet. I did however get all the walnut ripped and planned yesterday for the spindles. Today, I gotta make something for my sis, I'm thinkin a nice little box for her to put her thingy-ma-jigs in..


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

So I finally got some time to work on the crib again. I had 80 mortises and 80 tenons to complete for the front and back "jail bars". So these were alot of fun and thank God I bought a Delta mortiser a few months back. I did however manage to stab my finger pretty good with my sharpest chisel. Went all the way to the bone, but since it was so sharp, it should heal pretty quick. Anyway, here's some progress pics for yall to critique and maybe tell me what ya think thus far..


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## MrRodeoCC (Mar 15, 2008)

Ouch!! I know how that feels, hopefully it heals quickly so you can continue the good work.


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## aclose (Nov 11, 2007)

i can't wait to see the finished product! that crib is going to be awesome. :thumbsup:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks, MrRodeo & aclose. I am definetly putting my heart, soul and now blood into this crib. It's the first furniture I have ever made.


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

Jeremy: the mortises for the knock-down fasteners look top-notch! I wish my first ones would have come out that nice....but they're concealed, so that's some consolation. There's a lot work in the layout for the slats, huh? Awesome so far, can't wait to see the finished product. 

keep up the good work.

regards,
smitty


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## stuart (Jan 20, 2008)

the wood is looking so good that I don't think you need to add anything more to it... looks like a treasure to keep.


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## houtmannetje (Apr 5, 2008)

Wierd Woody said:


> Inset the male side a little deeper. that will force the joint together more.


make that the female to put in a little deeper

cheers, Houtmannetje


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah Smitty, I did alot of head scratching laying out those slates. Never was too good with math..lol. Thanks for the compliments guys.

houtmannetje, When I mortised out the male sides a little deeper it fixed the problem I was having. Not a bog fan of this type of hardware and prob won't be using it anymore...Thanks for the pointers though..


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## Spartan_Caver (Apr 2, 2008)

*Try a blind Panel Lock?*

If it has to come apart, but you want it secured when fasten, then may I suggest...

a Blind Panel Lock aka Coffin Lock 
see: http://www.norcostco.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1401

Or enter Google search terms: Blind Panel Lock Coffin


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

OK, progress report, I finally got the 2 sides for the crib built and added on. I used threaded T-nuts to secure the sides so that later down the road I can take this thing apart to store it. Now, I have come across another problem, I need to find someone who has a lathe long enough to turn a walnut dowel 3" in diameter by apox 30"long? Here's some updated pics....


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## stuart (Jan 20, 2008)

love the [top] groove loops on the front


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## MrRodeoCC (Mar 15, 2008)

firefighteremt153 said:


> OK, progress report, I finally got the 2 sides for the crib built and added on. I used threaded T-nuts to secure the sides so that later down the road I can take this thing apart to store it. Now, I have come across another problem, I need to find someone who has a lathe long enough to turn a walnut dowel 3" in diameter by apox 30"long? Here's some updated pics....


Is that dowl a glue up or were you lucky enough to get a solid piece, hopefully someone can hook you up, I'm a bit far to go and I havent used my lathe in years, but if all else fails, give me a holler.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, I don't exactly have the blanks for the dowels just yet. A gentleman on this site offered to supply me with the blanks if I would just pay shipping. He is basically going to ship them to whoever can turn them for me and then that person would just ship them to me.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Stuart, which "grove loops" are you talking about? Im kinda confused.. Happens easily..


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## stuart (Jan 20, 2008)

ok I'm not using proper woodworking terms..


it's the curved angle on the top front [the pair of ball shape, or CIRCLE/ZERO].

Sorry I'm not sure what it is called.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

stuart said:


> ok I'm not using proper woodworking terms..
> 
> 
> it's the curved angle on the top front [the pair of ball shape, or CIRCLE/ZERO].
> ...


 
Ok, I gotcha now. I wish I could take credit for it but they are pretty similar to one I saw on the internet but I made mine a little bit larger. I do think they flow well with the overall design of the crib.


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## Weird Woody (Mar 2, 2008)

stuart said:


> ok I'm not using proper woodworking terms..
> 
> 
> it's the curved angle on the top front [the pair of ball shape, or CIRCLE/ZERO].
> ...




The technical term is " top roundy thing ":blink:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thats what I was gonna tell him but I didn't want to get real technical on here.:laughing:


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## MrRodeoCC (Mar 15, 2008)

Get your dowl's yet? any update?


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

MrRodeo, Well, TexasTimber sent me the blanks for them but as of now they haven't been turned yet. My wife was wanting to get a lathe and learn how to turn a basic dowel and then she would turn the blank and have her hands in building the crib. So unless I can find the jet mini on sale somewhere or a good used lathe for sale pretty soon than I'm just gonna get a brother Firefighter to turn them for me. Kinda wanting that lathe though, it's for her but you know how it goes..ha ha So the crib is pretty much finished with the exception of the dowels and the finish. I'll try to put some recent pics on here later after I get them on my computer.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Will a mini turn that length?


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## Aaronmcc (Apr 12, 2008)

Love that Curly Walnut, such a nice pattern to it.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Kevin, if I get the extension bed for it then it should turn around 34" I believe. We're still kinda back and forth on getting the lathe. She says that I need one but I told her that I need a DC and a Joiner before I need the lathe. I think those 2 tools are a must have and the lathe can be purchased whenever we have the extra $$ for it. So if you hear of any decent joiners or DC's for sale cheap let me know..


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Its been a couple months since I've posted an update on the crib. I had to complete a couple projects around the house before I could dedicate the time needed to finish the crib. Well today I finally finished it and put it in the Baby's room. Thanks for everyone's advice and help in building this and Thank you again Kevin (TexasTimber) for supplying me with the blanks for the two dowels on the crib to hang blankets. Here is the finished product!


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## Trappeur (Jul 10, 2008)

*What a beautiful job! And so different the design...*
*It will for sure be an heirloom one day passed down generation after generation...Enjoy! When is the baby due? Makes me want to be a baby again and start my life over as I'd sure do a lot of things different!:smile:*

*Trappeur*


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

Hey man, nice job! This was a long time in coming, but you did it justice! It's really beautiful. Enjoy it now, because once your baby arrives, you'll be so enthralled that crib will be all but forgotten.


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## fungku (Jul 3, 2008)

firefighteremt153 said:


> Then to make matters even worse, I bought a new Freud flush cut bit this morning and while trimming one of the boards the bearing came off and it went straight into the board about have the diameter of the bit. Any ideas?


Hey I have had the same problem with the freud flush-cut trim bits. Now I only use them for trimming laminating material. They don't work well for cutting thicker stuff, I've messed up cabinets when the bearing comes off.

For that type of thing, personally I find these work much better.


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## fungku (Jul 3, 2008)

One question. How did you join the dowel? Forstner a bit in and glue? or...?

Just curious


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

Great job Jeremy! fantastic work there, my friend. Hope your new tike finds many dreamy nights in it. May God watch over mother and child as your family grows.

regards,
smitty


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Trappeur, the baby (Emory Ray) is due Oct 1st but he will prob be a little early seeing this is our third.

Fungku, I joined the dowels using some hardware that I can't remember the name of. Basically the hardware allows a screw head to go into a large hole and then the hole gets smaller and allows the screw to fit snuggly when wedged into it. It's early and my brain isn't working correctly this time of morning but I hope I made since in describing it?

Smitty, thanks for the blessings brother. Im sure I'll forget all the sweat and blood that went into this crib after the baby arrives and I see his beautiful smile.


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## drcollins804 (Jan 11, 2008)

:clap:Beautiful Job:clap:
Stay Safe Brother
David


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

That is really superb Jeremy. I love the design. The first thing I thougt of was the Ark of the Covenant, with quasi bass clefs on the corners instead of cherubms on the lid. 

I have a wierd imagination. At any rate, the crib is a heirloom worthy to be treasured and passed down for many generations. 

You might consider talkking with Nancy about a really nice i.d. plate that will give the pertinent info. When it was built, by whom, for whom, etc. She does excellent work at very reasonable prices. 

great job thanks for the update. :thumbsup:


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## cr_finewoods (Dec 6, 2007)

dang.... that is beautiful. its just stunning. what finish did you use ?.. i really like the finish. the figure on the walnut is incredible


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## Juniperlampguy (Nov 11, 2007)

Awesomely Beautiful piece of work!!!:notworthy::notworthy:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks for the compliments everyone. For the finish I just used 4 coats of wipe on poly and two coats of wax.


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## MrRodeoCC (Mar 15, 2008)

That turned out very nice!!! The baby will customise it when he gets there, they love to cut their baby teeth on that top rail, plus beat the baby rattles on it. :drink:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah, I thought about how hungry babies get for wood on cribs so I have ordered some teething rails from rockler and they should be here today or tomorrow.


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## jkbolen1 (Nov 14, 2008)

*excellent work!*

That is some excellent work and it looks amazing. I have a pretty stupid question, but what are you using for the base of the bed or where the mattress sits on? is that a metal frame? and where did you get it?


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

jkbolen, it's actually a frame I built out of the same black walnut. Here is kinda a picture of it. I should have taken some pics of it just for my own records but maybe the next time we have the matress out of it i will do that. The frame is held on by 5/16 bolts in each corner and on the inside of each leg there is 5 threaded inserts so I can raise and lower the matress as the baby grows.


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## jkbolen1 (Nov 14, 2008)

That is great. I was thinking about doing something similar but then I saw that frame kit you can buy for $150 and I kind of started to rethink the idea of building one. But if others have not used that frame system I don't think I will weither. Your crib is absolutely amazing, my wife and my sister both saw a picture of it and now let's just say I am for sure making at least two, my other sister will find out soon enough..lol Thanks for the reply!


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Well if I can be of any help, don't hesitate to shout at me.


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## kentuckytwostep (Nov 20, 2008)

firefighteremt153 said:


> Well if I can be of any help, don't hesitate to shout at me.


 
Since you offered... Would you happen to have the plans for this beautiful bed in a format that you can email?

I too just found out that I will be a reproducing (due end of July) and I want to get a head start on the furnature...


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

I didn't have a plan when I built this crib. I wish I would have, it would've save alot of headache. I pretty much just got a mattress and built around it. I measured a couple other cribs to get the height and look at some of the features they offered but thats about it. I also looked at the safety requirements for todays cribs and incorporated those into it as well.


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## kentuckytwostep (Nov 20, 2008)

firefighteremt153 said:


> it would've save alot of headache.


Precisely why I hoped that you had plans... Thanks anyway!!


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## mrsocks (Jan 29, 2009)

Excellent work! 

Did you use any glue on it and if so, what kind? 
I am in the process of building / laying out a crib for our first baby coming in April. I assume some sort of nontoxic glue, but is that all i should need to look for? Is there something safe for food or the like that would be safe if jr decides to chew on something?

Also, I have been thinking of the mortising that needs to be done and wanted to know about how deep did you make the pockets for the slats, how thick were they?
And finally....
I was thinking that instead of going through and mortising all 4 rails seperatly, I would make one piece abount 2.5" wide and mortise through that, then cut it into strips and glue then onto solid rail pieces.
This way, I would only have to go through the process once and just cut and glue the pieces to the solid rails. I would run the edge through the joiner before gluing them together for a clean fit.

Any suggestions as to why I should not do this? The rails are to be painted anyway, so you wont see the seam.

Thanks


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

i used titebond III to glue everything. im not sure how toxic it is after it cures, i really never thought about that. i guess if he's chewin on the crib and makes it all the way into the glue joint, then i've got something bigger to worry about than him eatin glue.
If i remember correctly, the mortises for the jail bars where 7/16 deep. the bars are 1/2" thick and 1 1/2" wide. i don't see where there would be a problem with the mortising method you described other than the looks, but if you're going to paint it then it shouldn't matter. i think if you use a good glue and have good surfaces to glue to then it should hold as good as if were a solid piece of wood if not better. maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in on this.


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## Spartan_Caver (Apr 2, 2008)

That is a great looking crib all by itself. Looks like it would be for a Greek God! I went to your website as well. You are making and selling Children's / Baby Furniture, no? You are probably aware that upon February 10th, 2009, under the Consumer Safety Commission Federal Children Protection Act of August 2008, a.k.a. as HR 4040, and signed into law by GW Bush, you MUST have the twin of that crib tested, at your expense, for possible lead content? Furthermore, failure to have said crib tested, certified and a permanent label affixed to the crib, can lead to prosecution for a Federal Felony. Don't belive me please. See for yourself. This is not a joke or a miss-understanding of the law. With a commercial website up and running, you are a target for prosecution. See: http://reformcpsia.org/2009/01/class-action-lawsuit/ 
For those out there reading this and asking what the heck? I give you this advise. See the Re-form CSPIA ACT HR 4040. google the term as the Internet is overheated at all the arts and crafts bulletin boards, chat rooms, websites, and blogs. The law in simple terms says, ANYONE, you, me, Fisher-Price WILL have a sample of their FINISHED product for a child, TESTED for LEAD, regardless of where your raw material source comes from. HD Lowes, Ace, your own backyard or saw mill, you can't pick up some red clay and make a pigment for a color wash, without testing. You can't use shellac, a food grade sealer used on apples to make them shine, approved for use by the FDA to eat, but used on that crib, MUST be tested after applying. And you don't get the item back as they usually use a flame to test it. And you can not use the "AT HOME" lead testing kit, got to be an approved lab. COST? up to $4,000.00 USD. You can't use the MSD sheets from OSHA. 
I hope I have you mad enough that you will go to http://reformcpsia.org/2009/01/class-action-lawsuit/ and either sign the petition or ask for information about joining the lawsuit to get this law enacted. Why haven't you heard of this before now? The CSPA did not hold public meetings to have the public input. They used industrial engineers, safety engineers, chemist to have 5 closed door meetings, and one meeting with the Congressional Committee; whereupon, the Committee presented it to Congress for a near unanimous passage. The public, us crafters of woods, us artisans of the shop, We The People did not have time to respond.
HR 4040 will put up to 10,000 small operations like Jeremy's out of business or force him to be a underground Federal Criminal. We estimate $2.5 billion in sales lost, we estimate 100,000 jobs lost, we see the end of MADE IN AMERICA label. 
Join the Fight, it is your fight too.
Want to discuss more? Contact Bryant Betsill @ [email protected] or phone 770-461-3903. Please do not put the e-mail address on some list. 
Keep Clear


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## granimal (Jan 26, 2009)

Spartan, Thank you for bringing the CSPIA ACT to the attention of this community. The law is rather draconian in some areas. It is important that we understand how it may apply to us. I am an attorney but am by no means an expert on CSPIA. 

With that being said, OP will not have to test the crib under CSPIA for two reasons.

1. First and foremost, he is not selling the crib. Sec 102(a)(1) of the Act states that the law applies to products subject to consumer product safety rules which are "distributed in commerce." The rule does not cover products an individual makes for his own consumption under the federal rule. 

2. Even assuming OP sold the crib, testing of OP's crib is not required under Sec. 102(a)(3)(A) because it was manufactured before the testing deadline for cribs. The testing requirement applies to products manufactured more than 90 days after the Commission establishes notice of the requirements for accreditation of third party assessment boards. For children's cribs, this occurred in October 2008. Thus OP would only be required to test the crib if it was manufactured in January of 2009 or later. Since OP manufactured the crib prior to that testing is not required. 

However, it is also important to note that even if testing is not required OP still cannot sell the crib if it in fact does exceed the 600 ppm lead threshold.

Finally, OP's state may have another requirement that is stricter than the federal one and he should only rely on the advice of a licensed attorney in that state for compliance.

Here are some references.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpsia.Pdf
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/summaries/102brief.html


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Granimal,

Thanks for your input on this terribly-written law. I understand the spirit of the law but it is too wide-sweeping as most statutory law seems to be. I stand to be corrected, but I believe the law also states that testing is not required for toys made of organic materials that will be sold to children age 12 and older. 

If my cursory reading of this part of the law is correct, boy it opens up a pandora's box of litigation in the future about intent, and setting precedent when a plaintiff brings a complaint alledging an injury caused by a product "not designed for children under the age of 12".

What about that case you know will come where the plaintiff's child was _"exposed to the harmful tennis racket which was found to contain toxic levels of lead and pthalates."_ 

Who, or what, other than future precedent is going to determine that a toy was "not designed" for children under age 12, but where the company, by package design and other strategies, are "marketing to children under 12 by means of skullduggery and deception"? 

The problem is we just don't have enough laws. :icon_rolleyes:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Spartan, Thank you for that TINY bit of info. Like Granimal said in his last post, that crib is not for sale, nor will it ever be if I want to stay married..The pictures of the crib and dresser are just to show off a skill level for potential customers. Maybe my website is a bit misleading and might make some people think I make cribs/baby furniture for a living but that is not the case. I am a Professional Firefighter in GA who tries to make some extra baby food money by doing woodworking. I have had people ask me to build them baby furniture in the past and have denied them just for the fact that there are too many guide lines/rules/laws when it comes to baby items and too many people are just looking to make some quick cash in the courtroom at my expense. By the way, my son Emory is no Greek God, but he's as close to heaven as I can get on earth.


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## Spartan_Caver (Apr 2, 2008)

To Tex: I am not an attorney but I once played a cop on stage. Thank God I didn't have a line to deliver only escort Goldilocks to the court. But, it is my reading that any and all material / components that have went into the product one delivers for sale to the public must be tested. This is one of the greatest insanities of the law. A piece of wood you purchase at an American Mill, or supply house, will have to be tested for lead content, either with a flame test or x-ray. Now, I will say that once upon my career I did encounter a significant amount of lead in a piece of SPF board. I was running a 1x12 through the planner, after installing brand new blades, when a little stripe of a raised piece of the wood suddenly appeared mid-way through the run. We examined the plank to discover the remnants of a piece of what could have been buckshot embedded in the board...lol... Of course we ruined a brand new set of planner blades, but had a story to tell of the lead in the board. 

Previously tested products will have to be tested again, theory being that somehow within your shop, lead got into the materials. Maybe you laid your paint brush down in some lead filings. You can not use the MSD sheets, or F.D.A. approved suitable for use shellac that you use on salad bowls, tung oil (Aleurites fordii), mineral oil, vegetable oil, olive oil, Olive Oil's lipstick, bee's wax, all must be re-tested.

Trying to find a legal loophole in marketing a product with a statement of Not Intended For Children Under 12, won't wash. The law in the definitions section, I believe, says to the effect, I am too sleepy to look it up, but says any product / item that a reasonable person could see a child using. Concrete Garden statuary would not be something a child might use, but a toy garden tool would be. And would have to be tested. 

This is the great fallacy of HR4040 is how broad the umbrella spreads... from Baby Afghans knitted with purest un-dyed, softest Scottish wool, to a cloth plush stuffed with Georgia cotton ball zebra. Under the wording, the spoon, knives, forks at the dinner table would have to be tested. Children rain slickers, children shoes, children's toothbrushes, children's face painting at fairs, children's sand art in those little bottles, including the glass bottles and metal / plastic cap. The plastic has to be tested for Phlhalates, used to make vinyl soft. 

R U Guys getting this? I don't mean to sound so condescending, but I have been fighting this for two weeks non-stop. It is my hearts wish to finally get my shop up and running; and to make the same children's wood toys my dearly departed Uncle Max once made. I have all his old templates and diagrams and some of the materials. I had business in the State Capitol in Georgia. I meet with a few legislatures and it took some doing to get through their preconceived fog that all Laws are good. Until I mentioned the estimated $2.5 BILLION dollars in sales that would be lost once HR4040 is implemented. and the jobs lost as well. I know some of the readers are not selling their product; that they do what they do for themselves. This is not who I am trying to reach. But those that do make childrens products for sale, on-line or art and craft shows. 

To Granimal: I concur with your statements and the contention I have is, Should OP offer up for sale the crib, even if manufactured in 1998, after Feb.10th, it can not be sold with more than 660ppm lead, how would OP know for sure that the crib meets or exceeds these standards. Rather than risk a Federal Felony, should not OP withdraw the crib from the market? This is the same exemption now given to Thrift Stores such as the Salvation Army, or Goodwill. They can sell what they hold in stock, however, they can not sell anything that exceeds 660ppm rule. Since they can not test every donated piece of clothing, and toy, should they withdraw all children's merchandise from sale until labeled and certified items come in? Even with the exception for "re-sellers" I believe in theory that is prudent and wise choice of action. However, the disposal of these items suspected of possibility containing lead would have to be handled like any other hazardous waste. 

So, dear friends, permit me a few minutes on a soap box about HR4040. It is the worst law passed since the Volstead Act of 1917 that gave us the 18th Amendment.... Prohibition....Now we have a prohibition on American made goods. 
see also: http://reformcpsia.org/
see also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWsrvOjQvSo 
see also: http://www.cpsc.gov/ABOUT/Cpsia/ComponentPartsComments.pdf

Keep clear and stay awake behind the table saw!


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## granimal (Jan 26, 2009)

Texas, I have not posted because I have not had a chance to research your organic materials testing requirement. I still don't have an answer but will post when I do.

Spartan, I agree with you that the law is bad. However, you have the law wrong in several places. I don't have the time to go into all of it. 

Your reasoning is also flawed. You first make a very good argument about how using products that have already been researched and found within tolerance should be able to be used in the creation of a product that does not need to be tested. This is a logical argument. However, then you go on about how would OP know whether the crib meets or exceeds the lead standards. Of course OP can know. This is the nexus of your argument.

This statement single handedly defeats your whole argument. If no one can ever know whether a children’s product has lead in it even if they constructed it with known materials, then of course it should be tested. After all, I think most of us can agree that the public policy of preventing children from eating lead is a good thing. It is the poor manner in how the law accomplishes this that is the issue.


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## mrsocks (Jan 29, 2009)

firefighteremt153 said:


> i used titebond III to glue everything. im not sure how toxic it is after it cures, i really never thought about that. i guess if he's chewin on the crib and makes it all the way into the glue joint, then i've got something bigger to worry about than him eatin glue.


i see your point, but figured it would be better to ask around



firefighteremt153 said:


> If i remember correctly, the mortises for the jail bars where 7/16 deep. the bars are 1/2" thick and 1 1/2" wide. i don't see where there would be a problem with the mortising method you described other than the looks, but if you're going to paint it then it shouldn't matter. i think if you use a good glue and have good surfaces to glue to then it should hold as good as if were a solid piece of wood if not better. maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in on this.


thanks. those are about the dimensions i was thinking.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

firefighteremt153 said:


> i used titebond III to glue everything. im not sure how toxic it is after it cures, i really never thought about that. i guess if he's chewin on the crib and makes it all the way into the glue joint, then i've got something bigger to worry about than him eatin glue.
> If i remember correctly, the mortises for the jail bars where 7/16 deep. the bars are 1/2" thick and 1 1/2" wide. i don't see where there would be a problem with the mortising method you described other than the looks, but if you're going to paint it then it shouldn't matter. i think if you use a good glue and have good surfaces to glue to then it should hold as good as if were a solid piece of wood if not better. maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in on this.


According to the MSDS there is an ingestion hazzard with Titebond III, but they claim it is non toxic when dry. I would assume, possibly inocorrectly that the hazzard may be in the wet product curing in the digestive system and messing things up physically.

Elmers Carpenters Wood Glue lists no hazzard, or toxicity either wet, or dry...


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

granimal said:


> Texas, I have not posted because I have not had a chance to research your organic materials testing requirement. I still don't have an answer but will post when I do.


I was more interested to know if my reading that the law does not apply to products aimed at those over the age of 12 was accurate. I am pretty sure now, that organic materials have to be tested as there is no provision of exclusion. As to the age I think I found my answer in §108 whcih states in part:

_*Prohibition on Sale of Certain Products Containing Phthalates* (Sec. 108)

Scope: Six phthalates; Children's toys and childcare articles.
Definitions:

Toy – consumer product designed and intended for a child 12 years or younger for use by the child when he/she plays.
Childcare article – consumer product designed or intended by the manufacturer to facilitate sleep or the feeding of children age 3 and younger or help children with sucking or teething.
Also stipulates factors and resources upon which intended age of the product should be determined.
Toy that “can be placed in the mouth” – if any part of the toy can actually be brought to the mouth and kept in the mouth by the child so that the toy can be sucked or chewed (if product can only be licked it is not regarded as able to be “placed” in the mouth.) Toy or part must be smaller than 5 cm in one dimension to be “placed in the mouth”.​_
So while this section is narrow in scope it does define what "Toy" means, as to the six phthalates (which I did not find referenced). I haven't found anything else on the "organic materials. My source for the above cite was from this Toy Association.


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## granimal (Jan 26, 2009)

Texas,
I just talked about this law with a friend of mine who is an expert on this law. She focuses on the regulatory and international law compliance of foreign imports.

After our discussion, my basic understanding is that anything that is a "consumer product" that does not fall under any of the specific children under 12 categories does not require the third party testing and labeling requirements. However, manufacturers and importers must provide a written certification that the product complies with the regulation to the distributor, consumer, and if requested, the government.

She also informed me that last Friday the CPSC granted a one year stay on the testing of certain products designed and intended for children under 12 that would have gone into effect on February 12th. This basically suspends certain third party testing requirements. On February 10, 2010, a Commission vote will be taken on whether or not to terminate the stay.

However, there are certain exclusions to the stay, one of which is cribs. Here is the link. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09115.html

I hope this helps.


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