# Do you need a workbench that is truly flat?



## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I was watching Charles Neil's video on 



 and he mentioned that he now had a flat workbenches. I then noticed that the bench he was working on was a store bought bench which surprised me because he is a master cabinetmaker and why wouldn’t he build his own bench? 
Well, this reminded me of a time when I didn’t have much money and I made a cheap assembly table out of MDF. I basically just threw it together in a couple of minutes, but then I realized that a cabinet I was building was racked which was immediately apparent when I started to install the doors. I discovered that one of the legs on the assembly table was too long and the MDF just went with the flow without any wobble. 
I don’t think I even want to know how much Charles Neil's bench cost, but I’m wondering if I made my own bench if I would have a problem keeping the surface perfectly flat. The only flat reference I have is my garage floor which is sloped to allow water to run off. I don't care about level but how flat is that? :shifty:


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## nelcatjar (May 15, 2009)

I'm building a workbench now (pics to come later). I am taking care to make sure mine will be flat, especially since my garage concrete floor is so unlevel.

I am using adjustable feet on mine.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

nelcatjar said:


> I'm building a workbench now (pics to come later). I am taking care to make sure mine will be flat, especially since my garage concrete floor is so unlevel.
> 
> I am using adjustable feet on mine.


Sounds interesting can’t wait to see your photos. :yes:
I was thinking about buying a laser level or something that I can turn to get each corner the exact height than use a straight edge. I don’t have one now so I need to do a little research to figure out what I want. 
I wonder how they make those large workbench tops. They must have a giant planer or something. I once did some electrical work in a large commercial furniture factory and they had a large cast iron table. If my memory is correct, it was maybe 6’x8’with holes for clamping like a grate. I did not actually see it in use, but since the operation was pretty much like an assembly line, I’m guessing that it must have been used for quality control. :shifty:


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## CivilEngineer13 (Aug 29, 2008)

Take it for what it's worth, but here's my opinion on the matter:

A LEVEL bench is nice, but it it has four legs all the same length and then conforms to the slightly sloped floor... big deal. A FLAT bench is much more important, but is not the say-all-end-all. Whether or not my bench is PERFECTLY flat or not (which it's not) is kind of a lost conquest during the building process. 

My reason is simple (may be wrong, but it's still simple): When I build something that needs to be PERFECTLY square, am I going to square it with the bench I built... or a square?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I do not have room in my shop (read garage) for a "perfectly flat" workbench. Most of the time my work surface is plywood on the top of saw horses. Have neverhad any problem with this. As CivilEngineer says, my square is my guide.

Now if I need to work on something that is very flat and or solid then I will clear off the top of my table saw and use that surface. All of my tools that take up space must serve multiple purposes.

G


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Although it is better to have a level workbench, you can have a flat workbench table that is not level. Sleeper It seams to me you are over thinking this just a little. 

Just use a good hardwood rip everything the same size. I would recommend that you make the bench top no less then 3" thick and when you glue them together take care that they are lined up properly and clamp. I forget the proper name but use solid pieces of wood or some metal angle to clamp across and a square on the ends to keep alignment as you go. Once the top is complete build the legs and frame keep everything the same size Legs, rails ect and square it up when you assemble. Attach the top and some adjustable feet so that you can level the whole bench. 

Here are some adjustable feet that I like http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2053&filter=levelers

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/fullpres.exe?PARTNUM=937-023&search=Levelers&smode=&showsingle=


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Well, like I said before I don’t care if it’s level. I can’t think of the proper term, but I just don’t want one or maybe two corners higher than the other. I want it flat in a single plane. 
You can have something square without a flat surface unless you have it square in 3 dimensions. Squaring it into 3 dimensions is easy if you have three square sides, but if you have a table top that is let’s say 36x72x 3”. Squaring the 36x72 is easy and you can even square the 36x3” side, but if that 36x72 surface is not all in the same plane such as maybe it’s warped, then the 4 legs all the same size aren’t going to do you much good. 
In fact I have a 10yr old picnic table just like this. It was all built square and sat firmly on the patio but 3 years later, it started rocking on 2 legs. The legs are still the same length and the table top is still square, but not flat.
It’s not that important until you start assembling doors on it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Although I have a "real" workbench..*

Made of maple lengths epoxied together and run through a wide belt sander, it"s almost too nice to screw up. So I use a solid core door at $80.00, 2 legal size roller bearing file cabinets, at $75.00 each used and a hardboard 1/4' top at about $20.00, total of $250, complete. It's heavy and "flat enough" for my purposes. :yes: bill


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> Made of maple lengths epoxied together and run through a wide belt sander, it"s almost too nice to screw up. So I use a solid core door at $80.00, 2 legal size roller bearing file cabinets, at $75.00 each used and a hardboard 1/4' top at about $20.00, total of $250, complete. It's heavy and "flat enough" for my purposes. :yes: bill


A door, WOW! I don't know why I didn't think of that, that’s perfect. :thumbsup:
A door has got to be flat. I can build everything else as long as I have a strong flat surface to start with. Thanks Bill
I have a couple of seasoned fir 2x4s that I been saving for about 10 years. I think I’ll glue then on to the bottom side of the door to insure it stays ridged and then fasten legs along with bracing to the 2x4s.:smile:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Make that a Solid Core Door there, Bud!*

Just making sure that's what you're gonna do. :yes: bill


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> Just making sure that's what you're gonna do. :yes: bill


Got it, Thanks!


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## Rich Aldrich (Apr 26, 2008)

I made a hard maple bench but the top is 36" wide x 75" long x 2 5/8 thick. I need to flatten it yet, but I can't find anyone with a large enough planer or sander (or willing to help) to run it through. I plan to make a jig to hold my router an flatten it. 

Basically it will be like a bridge with rails. The rails will run the length of the bench and the bridge will hold the router as you feed it across. The key is to make the bridge so there is minimal deflection. Then you need a bit that is 1" dia or larger so it doesnt take as many passes. Do one side then flip it and do the other.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Sleeper,
My bench top is made of 2x10's and 2x6's combined to get the width I wanted, with a layer of 3/4 maple veneer plywood on top of that. There are a couple of 2 x4 cleats underneath at each end. The edge is covered with a piece of 3/4 oak ripped to 2 1/4". The maple plywood is screwed through the top into the 2x stock. This top sits on top of a couple of cabinets I made out of 3/4 ply boxes with ash faceframes and drawers. The boxes sit on another layer of 2x stock with 2x4 treated cleats with wheels at each corner. The top is flat as a pancake and has held up very well. After a coat of stain, I put a few coats of satin varnish on everything. 
Mike Hawkins


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Next time you're down this way ..*



da Yooper said:


> I made a hard maple bench but the top is 36" wide x 75" long x 2 5/8 thick. I need to flatten it yet, but I can't find anyone with a large enough planer or sander (or willing to help) to run it through. I plan to make a jig to hold my router an flatten it.
> 
> Bring it with you we can have it done in no time! Same guy that did mine will do yours. :thumbsup: Mine was glued/epoxied on a large shaper table, so it ended up failrly flats to start out with. I've seen the router jigs, sort of a sled on rails, on rails. Wear your earmuffs for that project! It should work, but man it'll take a while. :yes: bill
> BTW an interesting thread on worktable surfaces:
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/dead-flat-surface-10541/


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

It really depends on what you use the bench surface for. "Pretty flat" will do for a lot of tasks, but there are times when "really flat" helps. "Flatter" is more beneficial than "less flat", so I'd get it as flat as is reasonably possible.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> Bring it with you we can have it done in no time! Same guy that did mine will do yours. :thumbsup: Mine was glued/epoxied on a large shaper table, so it ended up failrly flats to start out with. I've seen the router jigs, sort of a sled on rails, on rails. Wear your earmuffs for that project! It should work, but man it'll take a while. :yes: bill
> BTW an interesting thread on worktable surfaces:
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/dead-flat-surface-10541/


The article or blog at diynetwork explains better what I’m talking about. They say and I quote “Tables built in the torsion box style are known to carry great weight and are resistant to twisting and bending.” I just didn’t know what to call it so I guess it’s called Torsion Box. 
I don’t need one that big and it would be nice if it’s not too heavy so that I could set it up out of my way if needed. The solid core door will work for me, but I see you guys are talking about having your bench top flatted. Are there places to go to have that done?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Well the door will work cheap and fast. Your original question was about building your own. Depending on what you want to do with it will justify how to build it. if you wanted to build a true workbench and laminated 3/4" x 3" hard maple (all pieces cut exactly the same) while using angle iron to keep it flat and a square to keep it square there should be no twisting or moving on a top 3" thick hard maple.

My out feed/ assembly table is square and flat in any direction. It is 1 1/2" x 3" frame with cross supports and 2 sheets of 3/4" MDF inset into the frame. I then laminated the sides and top. It sits on 4x4 legs with upper and lower 2x4 rails connecting all the legs. I then wrapped 3/4" MDF around the legs. I have a removable front that lets me store things under the table. I was going for heavy. 

See that’s the great thing about this forum you get multiple ideas that you can choose. I've heard or seen the solid core door used many times but I forget about it. Torsion box is good also but wouldn't be as solid a workbench as 3" thick hard maple. If I can find the room I want to build one for my shop but was thinking hickory I think it's harder and quite a bit cheaper then hard maple. However I'm running out of room and already have a ton of projects to finish.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I was thinking today at work that the door idea is perfect because I don’t really have to build anything. As one piece I can set it up out of the way when not in use and lay it out on saw horses or blocks depending on what height I think I want. I only need to remember to use shims to support each corner if the floor is not flat. I know my floor is not flat because if I move equipment around I get a little wobble. The only thing is, that I wouldn’t have a vice, but with all the different kind of clamps that are available, that should not be a problem. 

Originally, I was thinking of gluing 2x3’s together to make a nice table with 1x4 spaces thru out for clamping purposes, but I was afraid that I couldn’t get it perfectly flat without a wide planner, but I guess you could make two 15” pieces and glue them together. I don’t have a planner

After Bill mentioned the door idea, I remembered my dad making a stack of wood screen doors and he used a factory door to lay them out for gluing. He then would then double check each door for flat by using a straight edge from each corner to corner looking for gaps and checking for square at the same time. I had forgotten this method of running the straight edge from opposed corners to check for gaps or high spots in the middle.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*My worktable is also on horses*

The adjustable leg type. I shim the door off the horses, not the legs of the horses to get it so it won't wobble *and* to be the same height as my tablesaw surface as an outfeed table. I actually have two of them butted together along the length for a large work table. 
4 horses, 2 doors, pretty simple heh?:yes: bill


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## Ratt (Apr 18, 2009)

Love the different way to do this, But how can I do this on a large scale 6'x14' island. The only way I can think of is like a floor system, But my problem is have to cut out different heights for saws and stuff. I want tool tables to match island hight and all flat. I ask before and did not get many replies hope someone has an idea this time.

Ratt


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

A FLAT WORKBENCH? What's that? I guess the concept is appealing...but it sounds like too much work. And every time I shifted the bench to a different spot on the floor, it would change. I guess I've never seen the need. Maybe I'm just a hack. 

Reminds me of those people in Fine Woodworking who spend 200 hours building a toolbox...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

There are different types of "benches" depending on what type of work may be done. A cabinet shop that does mostly all sheet goods fabrication has little use for a "woodworkers" type wood bench. I'm referring to ones like this. Personally, I like to also have that type of bench for certain procedures. How flat one should be depends on personal needs. They do get banged up and gouged.

As for fabrication and assembly, a sheet goods top (MDF, plywood, melamine), made with a grid support like an eggcrate design will keep it flat. Some call it a torsion box. I just call it an eggcrate designed grid. The ones I make have no bottom to the grid. The top stays flat with a grid made of 3/4" plywood 4" to 6" on edge. If the space alllows, a saw surround or a free standing table (4'x8' for example) for machining and assembly can support 2-3 people standing on it...really.

As a suggestion, bench tops that are topped with hardboard (tempered masonite) will be flat and are easily replaced if and when it gets damaged.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I agree those fancy woodworkers tables are a little too much and I don’t think it would get much use unless you were doing small stuff, but I would like to have a wood vice. I’ve not used one since high school shop class in 1966, so maybe its not too important. :no:


I don’t know the right words to describe what I’m thinking of, but I wanted an assembly table about 2 ft high off the floor and where I can use a square anywhere on the table to vertically align something like a table leg for instance. Well maybe that’s not such a good example, but in the past I’ve built 100’s of things like well, an open crate. I could not depend on the narrow pieces to square things up and I know, there are countless techniques to use, which I had to do, but I just want to use my square and levels are not accurate enough for me.:yes:

If I know that the assembly table is flat and I was building say a coffee table, then I know that when everything is done that coffee table is going set solid on the floor. That is, if the floor is flat and I have been in a few cabins where walking across the floor was like a roller coaster ride. :wacko:

Well anyway I bought me a solid core door yesterday for $65 and I think it’s perfect. It sure beats paying $2000. :thumbsup:


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