# Incra Coping sled



## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Hi all I bought the Incra starter kit from Elite Tools because among other things it will make a coping sled.

I want to make my own cabinet doors and a coping sled was necessary to do this. The kit was $169Cdn so about $125US.

It comes iwth instructions for making a variety of jigs including shooting board, tenoning jig, angle cutter, sanding jig. Most of the jigs are based on a sled that moves in a mitre slot.

It has a lot of hardware in the kit, more than I needed for the coping sled but extra bolts with spin nuts are a good thing so I just stashed the extras away for later.

I had to rout a mitre channel across my RAS table for it to slide in and I've ordered a metal channel to go in there next week. For this week I just used the rough channel from the router.

The base builds in a few minutes and then some of the upper boards are up to the builder to cut/shape/drill but nothing too difficult.

I installed my moulding head on the RAS and changed the fence and then lined it up and it worked like a chanp. I'll post up some pics but I'm calling this a great success. The board is firmly held down and on the two sides that it could move away from the head. The channel means that it only has one direction it can go.

PS - I know from the pics that I loaded the wrong knives for a rail, those were supposed to be for with the grain but the test was still a success.


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Moulding head and knives installed.


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

I spent some time lining up my power feeder for the rails.


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Here's the sled loaded with a stile. Notice the guard on the molding head, you can't even see the knives


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Other than the fact that it's the wrong profile everything worked. The RAS has more than enough power to make this profile in Maple in a single pass and the Corob knives seem to cut really cleanly.

I need to get a metal strip in place of the rough channel and a new sacrificial top on the RAS table but then I can start production by buying some rough cut maple at the wholesaler. This will be one of my winter projects. Our Kitchen is in good shape but I've got doors I can replace in two bathrooms and a travel trailer so that should give me lots of practice. I think I'll just make 100 feet of rail first and then I can cut it down into doors as needed later.

JayArr


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

that is a nice clean cut...


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Question on dimensions: Do you dress your stock down to 3/4" for door sticks/stiles? and is 2" wide pretty standard?


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

3/4 is a little thin for me. Depends on the stock available to you. My suppliers typically carry 13/16 S2S, if they have 15/16 I prefer that. Some go 1” thick doors.

The width can be anything you want that fits the application. Typically I make stiles/rails 2“ + depth of groove. For example, because my profile bit makes a 7/16” deep groove, I make the r/s 2 7/16 wide, so figuring rail length is simply door width minus 4”.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

It's nice to see the old RAS being used with a molding cutter!
Most folks are so intimidated by them, a molding head or dado head is just beyond their comprehension.
As you show, the cutters can be completely guarded for safety.
The only remaining issues are "feed direction" and "workpiece holding" which the feeder solves quite well.
I've never owned a feeder, nor a shaper which would be the primary application, but if I did, I would certainly invest in one.
Because the carriage and arbor on a RAS can be in so many different orientations, the cutter rotation and therefore the feed direction must be correct!

I don't know why you chose the RAS over the table saw for this molding head? What was your reasoning?


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

Can you flip the knives/head/ras? It looks like you are cutting the parts face up. Standard practice is to cut face down so any mismatch between the cope and stick (from variations in stock thickness) is to the non show side. 

Door / face frame thickness is up to the builder. Typically 1" (usually about 0.980") is as thin of a door as I will make. It's going to depend on the knige set as well. Some won't cut much more than 3/4. 

Door stile and rail width is a personal preference. I like 2.25" of flat so a 1/2" wide profile would be a 2.75+ door rail or stile. The exception to that is on short height 5pc drawer (5-6") Those rails are usually 1.75" or so (including the profile) to allow space for pulls.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Unless I didn't read it somewhere the dimensions look incorrect..

How thick is the stock?


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Thanks all. OK, in order...

DrRobert: I start with 1" rough cut and joint and plane down from there. I could probably easily get 13/16 but 15/16 would be tough without buying thicker lumber and there would be a lot of waste. I think I'll try with 13/16 or 7/8"

Woodnthings: I chose the RAS because it has the more powerful motor. My table saw is OK but it's a 137.xxx 80's style Craftsman at 110V and I think if I started to mold maple the motor would give out before too long. Either that or I'd have to do the molding in several passes which makes repeatability a problem. The RAS on the other hand is the large 12" model with the big 240V motor, I'm sure it'll cut molding all day long without complaint. I've got to say the RAS makes a really sweet sound when you spin it up with the molding head and even sweeter when you feed stock through it. 

Jar944_2: It's actually cutting on the side, the first pic I posted of the head was during setup, then the motor is rotated so the arbor is pointing straight down and the head is spinning horizontally. It's the same setup as a shaper except the motor is up top instead of below the table. I don't know how I'm going to make 1" doors from 1" rough lumber, perhaps I can ask at the yard if they have any maple in 6/4. My knives are from Corob and they are all 1" wide so I can't go any thicker than that without extra work but because of the profile I can center the knife on a thinner rail.

Rebelwork: That was just a test piece to see if the setup would cut clean, now I'm trying to determine sizing.


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

My jointer is only 6" wide so if I dress my rough lumber down to 6" x 7/8" and then run both sides past the molding head and then cut it in half on the table saw and allow for a little waste/kerf I'll get about 2 1/2 of flat plus 1/4" of profile. 

I think this is a case of my equipment dictating the limits of what I can make but I think I can be happy with that.

Solid maple raised panel doors from my little shop would really be an accomplishment.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Normal cabinet stock for a 3/4 door or is 13/16. There's a lot to consider when adding a raised panel.


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

JayArr said:


> Jar944_2: It's actually cutting on the side, the first pic I posted of the head was during setup, then the motor is rotated so the arbor is pointing straight down and the head is spinning horizontally. It's the same setup as a shaper except the motor is up top instead of below the table. I don't know how I'm going to make 1" doors from 1" rough lumber, perhaps I can ask at the yard if they have any maple in 6/4.


I think you misunderstood what I meant about flipping the knives/head. Normally the refrence face is down for all the cuts.



















4/4 rough lumber should actually be a heavy 1&1/16" or so. If I got 4/4 that was actually 1" I'd be having a conversation with my supplier/yard.
Rough @ 1.093"









Jointed and planed (s2s) @ .990"


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Hmmm... My supplier is different, 1" rough cut is 1" or a little less. Nothing I can do about that except look for a different supplier.

I just went out and put the knives for the ends of the rails on the head and they face up as well. I don't see a way to change that, the head only spins one way and the knives only go into the head one way so I think I'm stuck with that.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

4/4 should actually be 1 1/16 or so?


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

Rebelwork said:


> 4/4 should actually be 1 1/16 or so?


Is that a statement or question 🤔?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

"?" Has a question mark at the end...


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

I guess it depends on the mill. I buy from a wholesaler and I don't think he actually cuts the wood. At least not at the location I go to to buy it. I could complain but if there isn't anything the guy at the counter can do about it then that just makes me a "complainer" and he's likely to just tell me to go elsewhere. Best to just work with what I can get.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I'd be too scared that would wood be inconsistent and have to be planed again. When I , we or others make doors in cabinet shops we don't want to spend unessesary time preppinmaterials for doors...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Do you run these through a planer before you start your door making cuts?


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

Rebelwork said:


> "?" Has a question mark at the end...


Well the statement above said it should so I guess you are asking yourself rhetorically. 

The only time I've ever ended up with 4/4 at 1" rough was when I paid a guy to saw some logs for me and he charged by the bdft. Everything was under, but he got paid. 

As to you question yes again, at least around here Everything is .060 to .125 over on thickness regardless of who I'm buying from. Just looked through the stack
Rustic w/o @ 1.080 to 1.170 (4/4) 









Soft maple @ 1.070 to 1.125"









12' S2S poplar (I've already run this for millwork blanks) at .980"









4/4 curly maple

















5/4 will be the same again generally basically anything 1.3 to about 1.4. I had a pile 5/4 hard maple 1.4" that was irritating as I only needed / wanted 1.155"


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

JayArr said:


> I guess it depends on the mill. I buy from a wholesaler and I don't think he actually cuts the wood. At least not at the location I go to to buy it. I could complain but if there isn't anything the guy at the counter can do about it then that just makes me a "complainer" and he's likely to just tell me to go elsewhere. Best to just work with what I can get.


Understandable. If that is what they have then it is what it is. I'd pick a nominal dimension you can hit all the time with your available stock and go with that.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

It's not what they have, its what shops want for 3/4 doors. We specifically order it this way..
We don't order from sawmills. We purchase from cabinet suppliers..

When we ordered 8/4 from Paxton Lumber company we specified as much would as possible. So we would get wood 1 7/8 to 1 15/16. Otherwise it would come 1 13/16...


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

I think it’s supplier specific. Most of the 4/4 rough lumber I get is a full 1” to slightly over. The last time I was there the 8/4 rough maple was under 1 7/8 thick. OTOH I bought rough 4/4 cherry at the competitor most of it was 1 1/8 some was close to 1 1/4!

The surfaced lumber 13/16 S2S & 90% of what they carry here. I hate working with it you have zero room for jointing so you have to really watch the lumber for straight/flat.

The 15/16 soft maple was what I used for the kitchen, I ended up with 13/16” thick doors.

Some bitsets don’t do that great with 3/4 material either the filet is too thin or the groove is set too far back, I don’t like that but it works, I agree with whoever said register face down or else your material better be perfect - even in best world things happen.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I dont need it other than what I need. I don't want extra work when not necessary. 

Different needs for different shops..

Cabinet shops and commercial shops are making money on the products we sell.if I can save time , its profit..

When I buy wood, I intend to make and sell it for a living.

I want no rough wood in my shop...

Theres that pro stepping up.He just wont stay in the closet... lol


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## Jar944_2 (Oct 30, 2020)

Rebelwork said:


> I dont need it other than what I need. I don't want extra work when not necessary.
> 
> Different needs for different shops..
> 
> ...


Buying s2s or rough for a commercial shop really comes down to the shop and the person running it. I know guys that do both. 

It's no different than some shops running all stock across a jointer and some that have a old jointer in the corner covered cords and boxes because its never been used in the last 10 years.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

the wood is rough sawn, and then kiln dried. in my opinion, i think the amount of moisture which gets removed would play a large role in the dried dimensions...

which is probably why they give nominal dimensions of rough sawn/dried lumber in quarter inches (4/4, 6/4, etc.)


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Wood doesn’t shrink that much in thickness, mostly width. I‘ve seen rough 4/4 boards that were under 7/8 and there’s no excuse, that’s poor sawyering. I’ve had a lot of lumber custom sawed for me standing right next to the mill. More than once I’ve had to stop the guy. I tell them right off the bat when I say 4/4, I want the board 1 & 1/16“ off the mill. 8/4 means 2 1/8, not 1 7/8! Some of them will do it anyway.

Rebel and Jar will know this - I’ve always thought big shops are buying whole pallets of surfaced boards. I would assume it gets sorted and the stuff I wouldn’t use gets made into moulding.

I also assume it never goes through a jointer or planer, straight to a drum sander? I know form me I’m lucky to end up with a 3/4 finished board.

Lot to lot it varies. All depends on what milk it’s coming from. I’ll walk out of one supplier with a pallet full of junk and go to the other & a completely different scenario. Some is surfaced smooth as glass others look like a washboard.

I think it all goes back to the mill. This is another where a drum sander is a game changer,


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Whether we buy it surfaced or not we get charged the fee.

We don't get paid to stock lumber.

Some smaller shops don't have fork lifts.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

DrRobert said:


> Wood doesn’t shrink that much in thickness, mostly width.


wood shrinkage rate is a _percentage_ of its dimension. 
for "flat sawn" boards, the percentage is greater on the width than it is for the thickness (like you stated). 
for "quartersawn" boards the percentage of change is greater for the thickness than it is the width.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I remember getting caught several times with excessive lumber in my home shop. Most my builders wanted oak, but Kirk would change it up on me. I reme,be he really liked Notty Alder. I bought a 1000bd ft at $1 a ft. Luckily I was able to use the extra up in nailers , etc...I did like getting stuck with oak 😆


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