# G0555 Bandsaw blade guide does not run straight up/down



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

This has been an annoyance, and I wasn't sure if this is normal or not. 

Granted, it's not often I have to, but sometimes I have to run the blade guide down from full height (12" above table) to down closer to the table (say 2" above). When I do that, I find that all of the roller guides are no longer where they need to be. If I adjust all the roller guides so that they're perfect at 12", then when I drop the guide down to 2", the left roller bearing is pushing against the blade pretty stringly and the rear roller has no gap at all.

So basically, the blade guide does not move up/down in the same line as the blade.

Is it normal to have to readjust the guide bearings after adjusting the height of the blade guide?

Thanks.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

More important is the band at 90° to the table


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

I just went down and checked to be sure, but ya...it's perpendicular to the table, in both axis.

Here's some pics of the issue. Here are the guides fully up.

















And guides fully down (1" above table")

















As you can see, the spacing and aspect to the blade moves quite a bit. Since the blade is perpendicular to the table, I can only assume this means the guide post doesn't move perpendicular to the table.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

I have a new Shop Fox 1706 with a riser block on it. I just checked it (you got me wondering) and between low and high adjustments the blade guide clearance varies, but only by a few thousandths of an inch - maybe .005-.010".

I think if I were you I'd call Grizzly and ask them about your problem. If they can't help, maybe you could shim the riser block to get things aligned.

Is your lower blade guide centered on the blade? Are the wheels aligned with each other? Just brainstorming.

Bill


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Ya, the lower blade guide (the one under the table) is lined up perfect, and thankfully never varies.

I guess contacting Grizzly is next. I had thought about shimming the riser block, but wonder why I'd be the only one in the world who would need to....

I actually remember that I had this issue *before* I got the riser block. It's just a lot more pronounced now that it travels further.

I've also noticed that the entire arm of the bandsaw, and thus the whole blade guide assembly, tends to move an awful lot when I remove the tension from the bandsaw blade. I mean, I can see the structure "relax". I know Ive got it tensioned right though, I did the flutter test and such.

I went down and completely removed the guide roller assembly so all I had was the guide pole. I moved it down as far as I could and then checked it against the table....it _definitely_ is not square with the table. I also backed off a lot of the tension on the blade to see if the tension was moving the whole thing out of alignment, but that didn't make a difference.

I guess I'll contact Grizzly. Dunno what they'll say to do...I'm *way* out of warranty (the bandsaw sat in its box for the entire warranty period...long story).


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Oh, and I did check the upper and lower wheels with a straight edge....I would call them very very closed to aligned, if not right on. With the straight edge on both wheels, the top and bottom of the upper wheel touched, and the bottom of the lower wheel touched....only the top of the lower wheel was _slightly_ off the straight edge...not even 1/16th I'd say.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

You've checked everything else so carefully I'm sure you have the through-bolt in the riser block nice and tight, correct? 

The reason I ask is that the way the guide clearance changed it's as if the upper frame of the saw is bowed downward. But then you said the problem happened before the riser block was installed so that's probably not it either.


Bill


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

I probably should take a couple more turns on that screw to make sure. Like I said, I can see the entire guide wheel assembly move when I use the tension release lever, so SOMEWHERE in that cast iron assembly, there's some movement. It's not a LOT of movement, but enough to visually see.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Well, the word from on high (Grizzly) is.....shim it. They recommend feeler gauges between the riser block and the upper arm.

Feeler gauges from grizzly are $5 plus shipping plus waiting....does anyone have any suggestions of something I might find locally that would be suitable for shimming between those pieces of iron? 

I guess it's just put something in there and trial and error to find what makes the guide post straight, huh?


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Local machine shops, motor repair shops, possibly even hardware stores should be able to provide you with shim stock.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Sears would have feeler gauges, as would most auto part stores. 

I take it that Grizzly is familiar with this problem?

Bill


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

beelzerob said:


> Well, the word from on high (Grizzly) is.....shim it. They recommend feeler gauges between the riser block and the upper arm.
> 
> Feeler gauges from grizzly are $5 plus shipping plus waiting...


So....They wanted to sell you feeler guages to fix the problem their riser block caused ??? :blink:

I would not have been happy with that response ! :no:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Depending...*

On the thickness needed, pop cans make good shims, as well as steel can lids. Double up if necessary.  bill


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Excellent help all, thanks. Pop cans...hmmm. I'm not all that sure what normal feeler gauges are made of, but wouldn't aluminum be too soft to make a shim that won't compress over time? Or perhaps I'm greatly overestimating how much pressure will be in this joint.

Grizzly didn't admit that it was a known problem, but they seemed to have a ready answer. I was a little irked that their response included a link to something I could buy at their site.

The riser block didn't actually create this problem, as I had noticed it before the block went in...but the problem became worse with the block in since the distance traveled by the guide bar doubled. Either way, since the guide bar is connected directly to the cast iron upper arm, it's a machining/quality issue with the entire assembly. I guess I'm kind of surprised the guide bar isn't adjustable to compensate for this possible scenario.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Well, spending a couple hours tackling this last night has only really brought more frustration.

I bought some metal feeler gauges while stuck at Sears, so I have been using those.

So far I have about .040" in the front/top of the riser block to move the top of the saw back (while facing cutting edge of blade), and about .030" on the bottom right of the rise block to move the top of the saw left.

But here is what it's doing....since I'm trying to line up the (apparently) out of alignment guide bar with the blade, I've now skewed the blade so that it matches the bar. (and it *IS* starting to line up so that I can move the bar up and down without having to readjust the roller spacing). But now the blade is no longer square with the table. The table was setup so that it was level. Now, in order to make the table square with the blade, I'm going to have to tilt the table left...and thus it will no longer be level with the floor.

Should the bandsaw table be level with the floor? Or does it just matter that everything from the table on up is square? I can see this being a problem when I go to put a log sled on the saw and the external supports not lining up.

Another problem that I noticed when I put the riser block on....the blade channel on the LEFT side (where the blade goes from the lower wheel to the upper wheel....the blade is *very* close to the outside edge of that channel near the bottom wheel...and then within the channel it moves closer to the middle and where it exits at the top it's fine. But it's so close to the left edge of that channel near the bottom wheel that when I put a 1/2" blade on, I can hear the teeth hitting the channel where it comes off the wheel when I start to loose the tension during the flutter test. Now, tilting the TOP of the saw left to fix this alignment problem is only moving the blade closer to the left/outside edge of the channel.

Grrrrrrr.... If money weren't an issue I'd be starting over with a new bandsaw. Which is a total shame, as I LIKE this bandsaw and it has only gotten maybe 3 hours of total use maximum.

At this point, it seems better to just put it back the way it was and live with having to adjust the guide rollers every time I raise and lower them.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

beelzerob,

The band should be square with the table not the floor. Is your floor level?

Get back to the important stuff.

1. Your wheels need to be co-planer, so you need to get your upper and lower sections aligned 1st and it would have been easier if you'd thought of marking flange positions before removal
2. Band tracking on the wheels
3. Miter slot parallel to the band
4. Table at 90° to the band.

Even after you get all that done you still need to ensure that the table tilts properly in both directions with the largest band available to your BS without contacting any metal.

If it does you might be forced to start all over again by adjusting the position of the table and starting from #3.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions.

I posted above that I had checked the wheels for planer-ness, and they appeared to be right on or very close. Since making all these tilting adjustments, though, I do not know if they are still that way...I'll have to check.

What I did for level was first check the base of the BS for level, and once that was, then I checked the table top for level. I never checked the floor, but having checked the base first should have negated any ill effects from the floor.


What is the best way to check that the band is parallel to the miter slot, since the band itself is not a great edge to try and align to, being so narrow? Is this the same procedure as correcting for drift?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Here's what I'd do*

1. back off all the guides and rollers so nothing touches the blade under full tension
2. center the blade on the wheels as much as possible for it's width
3. Square the table to the flat side of the blade
4. lower the blade guide post to the table and set one bearing so it just touches
5. raise the post so it's all the way up and see if the bearing still just touches. If the distance varies from bottom to top then it's the housing that holds the post or the post itself.
6. the same procedure can be used on the back edge of the blade to see if it moves in that plane. 

The blade is the reference for all clearances to the bearings as the post moves up and down. If that clearance changes then the post guide system is faulty and may require shimming or adjusting. 
You asked if it was "normal" to readjust the guides when moving them up or down...No, it's not and shouldn't be necessary. On a saw with a riser block or a 12" depth of cut a small amount of change is probably unavoidable.

Quote: But now the blade is no longer square with the table. The table was setup so that it was level. Now, in order to make the table square with the blade, I'm going to have to tilt the table left...and thus it will no longer be level with the floor.

The table need not be level to the floor just square to the blade.


That's my advice.  bill


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

beelzerob,
Band to miter slot,

It's best/easiest to use the widest band you have, tighten the band for saw mode, then take a straight edge, (framing square, aluminum yrd stick) preferably long enough to span the table.

Gently slide the straight edge up to the inside portion of the band, (between neck and band) for contact without pressuring the band. Now take a combo square with 1/32 increments apart. From the edge of the infeed side of the table gently slide it up to the straight edge to make contact without moving it and read the ruler at the edge of the miter.

Do the same thing at the edge of the out feed side and read it. The further away from the band you take the meas the more accurate your final will be. IMO a 1/32 difference is nothing to fuss about. Anything more than that is something of a personal concession.

If its out you'll have to locate the table mounting bolts could be up to 4 bolts. On my model the table sits on a mounting block held by 4 bolts. The arbor is attached to the table and the bottom of it is held in place by a retainer on the side of the BS body where the arbor locking wheel is.

Loosen all bolts keep one a bit snugger for resistance, you'll likely need to loosen your arbor lock too otherwise whatever movement you acquire may be lost to rebound when you release pressure on the table to try to snug the bolts down.

Now that it's ready test the parallel again while it's loose and gently tap the the table to align it. Don't try to muscle one bolt at a time the table will surely move on you. I had my youngest holding the table and eyeballing the ruler while I moved each bolt a little at a time till snug.

This may take you a number of times to succeed, it takes patience to learn how to finesse the beast.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Ok...I've calmed down a bit. I realize now that even if the table isn't level in order for it to become perpendicular to the blade, I can probably make it level again by either shimming the machine to the base, or just adjusting the base feet so that the table is level. So that's workable.

I've been in contact with Grizzly and they've been good and patient help. They sent me a copy of the newest manual for the saw, and while it didn't have any new info regarding this issue, it *did* have some additional info about adjusting the detension lever which will be helpful to know.

I checked the wheels and all this shimming has made the upper wheel not planer with the bottom wheel...so that will have to be shimmed out too.

My newest concern is the blade guide channel on the left side of the saw. For some reason, the blade coming off the lower wheel travels very close to the edge of the channel, and when I remove tension for the flutter test, I can hear teeth hitting the channel edge as it enters.









But by the time it exits the channel at the top it's moved back to the center.









Shimming the top to the left has made this problem worse sense it moves the upper wheel over too. We'll see how to fix that.

I'm beginning to be concerned I'll be in a neverending loop of adjustment here. If I continue to shim the upper part of the saw so that the guide bar is paralell to the blade, and then I have to shim the upper wheel so its planer with the lower wheel...what if that once again moves it out from the guide bar? Then I start over basically. :thumbdown:

I guess with how far the wheel has to come out already I should go ahead and do that before I continue shimming the top of the saw.

I really really wish Grizzly had made the guide bar adjustable...because this is an awful lot of shimming and adjusting for the sake of a non-shimmable guide bar.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Well, I had finally had enough, so I tackled aligning it once more.

I shimmed the top of the saw so that the guide bar would align closer to the blade. It was *close*, but not close enough. At the same time, it was moving the upper wheel to the left, and so the blade was beginning to rub against the guide wheels even when they were moved all of the way out. I knew that was bad. So I contacted Grizzly, and they said to remove the alignment pins from the top of the riser block so that the upper half of the saw could be moved over to the right. I was skeptical, and it kinda sucks to not have them anymore, but they really don't do anything to hold the top half on...that's what the huge bolt is for. So I dremeled off the pins and ground them below flush and tried again. I moved the saw about 3/16" over to the right and bolted it down

And now...it's great!

The guide bar moves straight up and down with the blade, and the blade is in between the rollers. The guide bar is still *slightly* misaligned front to back...so it moves closer and further to the blade is it moves through it's range....but its too minor for me to fiddle with anymore and risk getting the wheels out of planer.

I also fixed the above problem with the guide channel by shaving off some of the rubber material so it could slide some to the left.

It was an annoying problem, but I'm glad to have it aligned and working better. I can't say this is a grizzly quality problem, maybe I just got a bum one....I still overall like the brand. Their tech support was quick and responsive and ultimately helped me fix it.


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## kurt kneller (Aug 31, 2014)

I added a riser block to mine and that made the guide post out of square to the blade. I measured the offset then I used feeler gauges to make some shims 1/2 of the offset. Now the post is inline with the blade.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

It sounds like the top and bottom of the riser block are not parallel so need to be trued up on a surfacing machine.
As they say, a lot of products manufactured offshore are a good start, they just need to be finished.


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