# Sharpening and the micro bevel



## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm having some issues with my sharpening which is taking way too long for my taste. I know there are as many ways to sharpen as there are woodworkers but I'm curious if I'm way off base in my methods. 

I have a set of two double sided Norton water stones, 220/1000 grit and 4000/8000 grit. I also use a Veritas Mk. II honing guide and an extra course diamond plate. If I am sharpening an old iron or something I've never sharpened before I start with the diamond plate and ground the entire bevel to 25 degrees before moving up and doing the same thing with my 1000 grit water stone then doing a micro bevel with the 4000 and 8000. When I'm just sharpening I know I should probably do the same thing to get the correct bevel angle but I'm lazy so I usually just set the guide to the micro bevel angle and touch it up on the high grit stones. I don't redo the whole bevel every time because it takes so freaking long and when dealing with a pile of chisels and irons its just not feasible. Part of the reason it seems to take so long is this annoying bs:









I have done some research and found that some people get this when using the mk II's micro bevel adjuster. I usually just account for it when setting up the plane but its annoying none the less. 

Assuming I should be redoing the entire bevel every time I have looked into motorized sharpening options like the tormek, but $600 is a deal breaker. I have also looked at a few other cheaper options but they seem to require that I purchase proprietary disposable sanding pads, which I would rather not do. I have looked into a hand crank bench grinder per Chris Schwartz but it seems like the small radius of the grinding wheel would make my bevel slightly concave. Mr. Schwartz does seem to think this doesn't matter, but if thats the case it wouldn't matter if I'm putting a new bevel on my blades or just touching up the micro bevel. 

Should I keep looking for a better way to replace my bevels every time or should I just keep doing what I'm doing?


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Gotta say, I've never once had that issue with my mk2, on the rare occasion I decide to put a micro-bevel on something. Personally I'd say skip out on microbeveling entirely, or failing that go with a smaller bevel. It's supposed to be a 'micro' bevel after all, if you can clearly see it its too large. Shouldn't take more than a swipe or two on your highest grit stone to set a micro-bevel anyway, and that only barely leaves a viable line


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

My sharpening system uses a bench grinder and 6" wheel to grind an initial bevel. The concave grind is an advantage in that when you hone on a stone you don't have to sharpen the entire bevel, just the edge.


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

^^^^ yeah what he said.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

GISer3546 said:


> Assuming I should be redoing the entire bevel every time I have looked into motorized sharpening options like the tormek, but $600 is a deal breaker. ?


The Grizzly copy can be had for a few hundred less even after you add the Tormek truing tool and stone grader to the shopping cart. 

In your case since you already have a diamond plate - You don't really 'need' or want the stone grader. You can use what you have to grade the wheel just as well and what you have WILL last longer than the Tormek grader before needing replacement. 

If you go Grizzly you are closer to 300 bucks to get up and running (truing tool included).


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

Grizzly does seem to have some nice slow speed grinders like the G1036. They seem like they`d speed up the process but will I see a noticable difference in my tool`s with a bevel closer to 25 rather than the 27 I realize I`ve been using now that I see what a micro bevel actually is.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

GISer3546 said:


> Grizzly does seem to have some nice slow speed grinders like the G1036. They seem like they`d speed up the process *but will I see a noticable difference in my tool`s with a bevel closer to 25 rather than the 27 I realize I`ve been using now* that I see what a micro bevel actually is.


I doubt you will notice a 2 degree difference one way or the other. 

Instead of the G1036 you listed above - I would opt for this if it were me:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Wet-Grinder-Kit-Anniversary-Edition/T10010ANV

On sale for 159.95 and if you sign up for their email blasts you can likely get an online coupon sent to your email for 25 bucks off the shipping which would make it 'free shipping'... 

I looked up the G1036 a minute ago - Didn't like the 3/4" bore for the wheel, didn't like how hard it seemed to be to change out wheels, didn't like the plastic gears in the gearbox, didn't like the 'gearbox' and the thought of having to maintain it, didn't like all the other stuff that had to be oiled and 'maintained', didn't like the tool rests, didn't like how you got to pick up the entire machine to dump the water... The list of stuff I didn't like about that particular machine goes on and on... 

Opinions. That is what you get on the internet... :yes: 


'Speeding up the process' is what you will get when moving from how you are doing it now to a motorized type sharpening system. Wet or dry is up to you but either way you WILL increase your speed getting from A to B. 

I LOVE to watch Paul Sellers videos on YouTube. The guy is gifted in a PILE of different ways with everything he seems to touch. I watched one of his videos where he talked about his students and him buying or giving them some cheap chisels and then him 'teaching' them how to care for and properly sharpen them. At 1:40 in this video he says, "If your just starting out and don't have a whole lot of money". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki8tt-VjwqI

The rest of the video is him explaining how to keep those chisels razor sharp for as cheaply and with the best accuracy as possible without spending a 'whole lot of money'. 

He does EXACTLY that in the video and does it very well. He explains step by step how to get from A to B inexpensively. :yes:



I totally agree with him about the china chisels and how they can be 'fixed' and put into service. :yes:


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

After seeing the details on the G1036 I`d say you`re right about it. While I was looking at alternatives I remembered the extra 1/2hp bandsaw motor in my shop. I may see if I can get the $45 grinding wheele and somehow slow down the bs motor.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

GISer3546 said:


> After seeing the details on the G1036 I`d say you`re right about it. While I was looking at alternatives I remembered the extra 1/2hp bandsaw motor in my shop. I may see if I can get the $45 grinding wheele and somehow slow down the bs motor.


Youll spend less money on the slow speed grinder, ive tried that route before. Youll either need a 100:1 or thereabouts gearbox, not cheap at all, or a multple jackshaft/pulley setup, which is somehow even cheaper. 

Personally, though, i still maintain that the setup you have now is the best option, just ditch the microbevel. Touching up the edges a little more often cant hurt either, and funnily enough will actually reduce your overall sharpening time if you just hit the chisel with the high-grit stones every so often. Really dont recommend waiting until the edges are near completely blunt and sharpening everything at once in a big, multi-hour sharpening session, although thats what i do...


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I've been trying to find a clear answer on whether or not I could change the speed by altering the voltage. Similar to those external router speed controllers. I have done some diy work with electronics and if its possible I think I could put something together.

... this thread may have changed enough for me to start a new one.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

What I do for bevel angle depends on what that edge is expected to do in service. Working by hand, wood carving, there's a great difference between 25 and 20 degrees. There's another major difference even between 15 degrees and 12 degrees. Depends on service requirement.

I have a bunch of oil stones for damaged edges. I have 1K and 4K waterstones well worn through use. I have a leather-on-wood strop now so soft it has been retired.

Instead, I'm mostly using grades of 3M automotive fine finishing sandpapers, 1.5k and up. My strop is no more that a strip of cereal box cardboard taped to a granite countertop off-cut. Scribble with CrOx/AlOx. I use round mandrills for all my PacNW style carving tools, adzes included.

All ready to tune up any of my carving tools? Maybe $5.00


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

GISer3546 said:


> I've been trying to find a clear answer on whether or not I could change the speed by altering the voltage. Similar to those external router speed controllers. I have done some diy work with electronics and if its possible I think I could put something together.
> 
> ... this thread may have changed enough for me to start a new one.


Short answer no, there's no real theasable way to change the speed of a capacitr-driven induction motor.


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

I feared as much. In lieu of constructing my own gearbox I'm probably going to be carefully considering the T10010 from grizzly... or at least adding it to my xmas list.


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