# Antique Band Saw



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I was looking at this bandsaw online and like it except it appears to be missing the lower wheel. Does anyone think it is complete?. The owner doesn't know anything about the machine, not even the mfg. It looks to me like all that is there loose is the cover for the lower wheel. I don't mind a fixer upper but I wouldn't want a one wheel bandsaw.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

The maker is cast into the wheel covers and the bottom wheel is there, I can see it. 

Now I am curious to figure out who made it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*me too*


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

There is some wording on the upper grid wheel cover, also the bottom grid cover sitting on the table .....


B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> *The maker is cast into the wheel covers* and the bottom wheel is there, I can see it.
> 
> Now I am curious to figure out who made it.





Bweick7 said:


> There is some wording on the upper grid wheel cover, also the bottom grid cover sitting on the table .....
> 
> 
> B,


:detective::shifty:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Drawback of digital pictures. You can’t enlarge them and study the image. I've been trying to contact the seller and so far no reply. I'm getting more and more tempted to go ahead and buy it. The guy only wants a 100 bucks for it and after studying the picture more I think I see the lower wheel. That was really the only apprehension I have with it.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

For a hundred bucks I would just buy it to look at.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Cool saw- looks like it must be about 4' tall- need a stout bench to put it on. I would buy it also and I have no clue as to what I would do with it.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Whoops...I must have missed that....


...... 





B,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

mike1950 said:


> Cool saw- looks like it must be about 4' tall- need a stout bench to put it on. I would buy it also and I have no clue as to what I would do with it.


I hope you are right cuz I gave in and bought it this morning. Now I have to get the guy's attention for a local pick-up. The way it has loose parts I know it will need some repair and probably welding but I plan to restore it before I put it to use. I have some tubular steel and will probably fabricate a steel base for it. I'll have to scratch my head and figure a way to make the base antique looking.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Have you talked with the owner? Any chance of asking what is worded on the covers?.....babbit or ball bearing? Size (blade to the throat)?


I have seen some pretty impressive recreations for bases.....http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=121855&p=855967&hilit=+Mdf+base#p855967


B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

It looks like a 18" machine, maybe 20?

I looked through every picture I could find and did not find a match. 

I do believe it sat on a cast iron base at one point and time.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It looks like a 18" machine, maybe 20?
> 
> I looked through every picture I could find and did not find a match.
> 
> I do believe it sat on a cast iron base at one point and time.


This morning I went through about 40 different mfg at vintagemachinery and didn't find anything either. I guess we'll have to wait until I pick it up. When I find out something I will post the info. 

I figured it had a steel or cast base. I don't have a great deal of metal working equipment but I'm thinking of something like the picture. Not sure what I can do to make the flare feet. Might have to make trim out of wood and put a lot of paint on it. 

I've got a old 1hp motor off of a 1950's sears table saw I plan to use with it. It probably weights as much as the saw so maybe it won't be so top heavy.


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## gus1962 (Jan 9, 2013)

I can't see the motor.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It doesn't have a motor. Right now that is the least of my problems. I bought the saw and paid for it and the seller hasn't contacted me to let me pick it up. I paid for it through paypal, so the money is safe but I'd rather have the saw.

Update: I was finally contacted by the seller and will probably pick up the saw tomorrow.


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

Very cool, Steve..
Keep us posted and see if any of us can lend a hand in the redo.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

That's a cool saw. Tuning in to see how it goes.


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> For a hundred bucks I would just buy it to look at.


me too


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## DST (Jan 10, 2011)

Steve, 
That really is a great find and a very unique saw. Cleaned up it would be a great display piece whether you use it or not. Of course using it would be even cooler.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

DST said:


> Steve,
> That really is a great find and a very unique saw. Cleaned up it would be a great display piece whether you use it or not. Of course using it would be even cooler.


I don't have space to buy anything just to look at. I like and appreciate old equipment so the saw will be restored but I have every intention to use it as I would a new saw.


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## gus1962 (Jan 9, 2013)

But is it just a typical woodworking band saw? Well, it's a great find. Keep us posted.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

It's tomorrow, I am impatient and need pictures to get my fix.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*me too*



WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's tomorrow, I am impatient and need pictures to get my fix.


if today is tomorrow, then yesterday must be today... :blink: but today is already tomorrow. I'm confused.:huh:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's tomorrow, I am impatient and need pictures to get my fix.


I'm about to the point of raising H. The guy said he would call today and didn't. I try to be patient with people but I'm going to call him tomorrow. I'm starting to feel like the whole thing was a scam again but the guy has a lot of sales on ebay and very good feedback. 

How about some pictures of the motor I'm working on to use with the bandsaw. It came off of a old WWII era Sears table saw. The casting was broken and I welded some steel in it to fill it in.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

That takes the edge off some.:laughing:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*This was posted yesterday*



Steve Neul said:


> I'm about to the point of raising H. The guy said he would call today and didn't. I try to be patient with people* but I'm going to call him tomorrow.* I'm starting to feel like the whole thing was a scam again but the guy has a lot of sales on ebay and very good feedback.


Today is now tomorrow, since that was yesterday. If you call him today let us know today what happens...... :blink:


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Sorry to hear your having problems getting this bandsaw from the PO ...
That's a little nerve racking....What gets me (in your case) is the lack of communication........:thumbdown: If the seller has a good rating more than likely it will be in your shop.....some of them....quick to take the money and then selectively late on delivery.......

What is the HP/rpm on the motor?:blink: are there any ID plates on the motor?
If it is a 14" bandsaw you will want to be around 3000 FPM (on the blade).

1750 rpm motor, pulley on the wheel 4" , wheel diamiter 14" .....you will need a 2" pulley for the motor to get you to the proper speed.


What size you have....? Did the seller give you any specifications about the size of this band saw...?



I hope you get it soon, :thumbsup:


B,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> Today is now tomorrow, since that was yesterday. If you call him today let us know today what happens...... :blink:


Sure, I will notify you yesterday unless it's tomorrow. 

I've searched vintagemachines and google images and I can't find another bandsaw with a cover over the wheels like that one. I'm beginning to wonder is someone juryrigged the cover off a fan on it.

It looks like I'm going to use the tomorrow word again. The lady I talked to said the guy was sick and wasn't able to deal with it today. Starting Friday it is suppose to start raining here for a week. I told her I would like to get the saw picked up before the rain set in.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bweick7 said:


> Sorry to hear your having problems getting this bandsaw from the PO ...
> That's a little nerve racking....What gets me (in your case) is the lack of communication........:thumbdown: If the seller has a good rating more than likely it will be in your shop.....some of them....quick to take the money and then selectively late on delivery.......
> 
> What is the HP/rpm on the motor?:blink: are there any ID plates on the motor?
> ...


 I think I will eventually get the saw. The lady sounded nice on the phone and explained the problem so I'm OK with the delay. 

I don't really have any specifications on the bandsaw. I do know it doesn't have a motor. I have a old 1 hp. antique motor that is 1760 rpm I plan to use on it. I've already repaired the motor and painted it. When I get the saw I will adjust the pulley sizes to make it work right. 

I wish I even knew the manufacturer. I kind of need research the proper paint color for it but I guess there is no hurry.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> Sure, I will notify you yesterday unless it's tomorrow.
> 
> 
> It looks like I'm going to use the tomorrow word again.
> ...



:whistling2::whistling2: The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow....:whistling2::whistling2: OK, Annie


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Black, all the old stuff was black. Looks like it just needs a good cleaning with soapy water.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Soapy Water!!!!







B,:shutup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Bweick7 said:


> Soapy Water!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, a bucket with soapy water and a scrub brush. Best way to clean these old oily dust covered machines. Scrub, scrub, scrub, and wipe it off. 

Water won't melt them. I have taken a couple to the car wash.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Cool!*



WarnerConstInc. said:


> Yeah, a bucket with soapy water and a scrub brush. Best way to clean these old oily dust covered machines. Scrub, scrub, scrub, and wipe it off.
> *
> Water won't melt them. I have taken a couple to the car wash.*


Quarter or drive through? any pictures? :blink:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> Quarter or drive through? any pictures? :blink:


:laughing: I didn't take them through the automatic. :laughing:

If they are filthy and you are going to tear them down, one will appreciate a clean machine. I should have taken my latest planer to the car wash, that thing is still making my shop smell like burnt diff fluid.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Black, all the old stuff was black. Looks like it just needs a good cleaning with soapy water.


Black huh. Lot of customizing going on then. I've looked at probably a 100 bandsaws this week and nearly all of them were a different color. 

I will though try to put the saw back as close as I can to what was when it was originally made. I painted a 1959 tractor last year and I hate the color but I still painted it the factory color.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

You could always bring it up to date with your favorite sports team colors.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Paint it whatever color you want, 90% of the real old stuff was black though. 

I only have one that I painted black and I just did that to piss off the oliver fan boy's.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Sorry this is off topic Steve,...but

Since i have known you Darce , it seams that you have some issues with Oliver, or people that like Oliver machines,.....is there a particular reason why......:blink: 


B,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Paint it whatever color you want, 90% of the real old stuff was black though.
> 
> I only have one that I painted black and I just did that to piss off the oliver fan boy's.


 Looks like the new word is today. I have an appointment to pick up the saw at 11 this morning. 

As far as color I was thinking of painting the wheels alternating the color of the spokes black and white so it look like the twilight zone while running. :laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Bweick7 said:


> Sorry this is off topic Steve,...but
> 
> Since i have known you Darce , it seams that you have some issues with Oliver, or people that like Oliver machines,.....is there a particular reason why......:blink:
> 
> ...


Well, Rich Fink is an a hole for starters and there is nothing special about them, but people seem to think they are the best thing since sliced bread. 

Next oliver I find and buy, is going to the scrap yard.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Whatever floats your boat.....




B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I have had several machinery dealers say the same thing about rich, not just me.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Well I've got good news and bad news. I got the saw but it wasn't what I expected and is in really rough shape. There is a mechanism which tilts the top over to 45 degrees which appears to be stripped and someone welded a piece of metal to hold the top somewhat level but the top is very loose anyway. It appears I will have to completely dismantle the saw to evaluate the repairs and fabricate parts. The wheels don't have any tires on them anymore and it appears it's been used a number of years without tires with grooves cut into the wheels however they are shallow. While originally I was guessing the saw was a 18" to 20" it turned out to be a 14". The saw is made by a company called Winner Manufacturing Company in St. Louis. So far I can't find anyone else with any equipment from them. Even vintagemachinery.org has nothing on the company.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

There isn't much to have to take off a BS. 

Now the pile of parts from a 24" planer with powered everything, is daunting.

How heavy is it?


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

COOL looking old saw- I hope you can get it up and running!!!!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The saw is maybe 100 pounds. I picked it up and carried it through my shop and set it on the bench.

There's more to take apart than you think. The casting even comes apart. Good thing though, the mechanism needing repair is inside.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

That is one fine looking band saw.....:thumbsup:

Are you a member over at OWWM ? You should throw that up over there, and the vintage site (since there are none)...

Did you get the auxiliary table?




Hope all goes well with getting her up and running.



:thumbsup:
B,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bweick7 said:


> That is one fine looking band saw.....:thumbsup:
> 
> Are you a member over at OWWM ? You should throw that up over there, and the vintage site (since there are none)...
> 
> ...


To tell you the truth, I never heard of OWWM until your post. I had to look it up. It's a much smaller site than vintagemachinery.org . There is nothing there either on the saw or the company that made it. So far it looks like there is nothing about the company at google either. Before I try to post the machine somewhere like that I'm going to restore it first. It needs a lot of little repairs but there is nothing I've found so far that I can't fix. A lot of it will be undoing previous repair work. I would also like to find out something about the company. I might have to write to a library in St. Louis and see if they know anything. 

There was no auxiliary table. I doubt if I will need one but if I do I can make one out of wood. 

I will get it running but it may take a while. I've got paying work getting in the way.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

What kind of guides are on it?

Maybe winner was a company that made guards?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> What kind of guides are on it?
> 
> Maybe winner was a company that made guards?


 No the saw is a winner. I don't know when they started using aluminum on equipment like that but the wheel covers are made out of cast aluminum. 

I've gotten this far in tearing it down. It appears the problem with the saw table is somebodys repair work. I think I can do better. Who ever worked on the mechanism just used common bolts instead of axle bolts and they had to leave them loose to keep it from binding. 

This will be the last I will be able to work on it until Saturday. Got stinking paying work getting in the way tomorrow. :laughing:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm finally close enough to done to take a picture. I still have some issues with thrust bearings on the saw guides. I really need a bearing that is less than 3/8" thick and 1 3/8" in diameter and from what I'm finding the standard bearings are 1 3/16" at best. I think originally it just had a flat plate instead of roller bearings. If I had a metal lathe I would probably just make some and upgrade the guide assembly at a later date.


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## gus1962 (Jan 9, 2013)

That band saw is looking great now.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Nice work Steve.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Right on!*



Steve Neul said:


> I'm finally close enough to done to take a picture. I still have some issues with thrust bearings on the saw guides. I really need a bearing that is less than 3/8" thick and 1 3/8" in diameter and from what I'm finding the standard bearings are 1 3/16" at best. *I think originally it just had a flat plate instead of roller bearings.* If I had a metal lathe I would probably just make some and upgrade the guide assembly at a later date.





gus1962 said:


> That band saw is looking great now.





WarnerConstInc. said:


> Nice work Steve.


How about a close up shot of the guides and where the bearing should go. Someone may have something layin' around? Are you saying that it's a rotating disc on a stud, rather than a bearing that the blade rides on?

Like this?










Rather than this:


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

That looks great Steve! Nice work there. Once you get the bearing sorted out let us know how you like using it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> How about a close up shot of the guides and where the bearing should go. Someone may have something layin' around? Are you saying that it's a rotating disc on a stud, rather than a bearing that the blade rides on?
> 
> Like this?
> 
> ...


The SMI look closer to what I think this saw had. I picture a flat piece of metal maybe 3/32" thick and 1 3/8" in diameter with a 3/16" pin about a inch long in the center. Kind of like a big thumb tack. The saw guide has a 3/8" diameter rod in it with a 3/16" diameter hole in the center where the thrust bearing would go. 

The whole guide assembly is worn out and the upper one is made out of cast iron where I could work on it adding nickel but I think the saw would be better off it I just replaced it entirely with some that had roller bearings. For now I will just do as much for the saw as I can and upgrade later. The lower assembly is made out of brass so I'm not equipped to work on it. All I have is electric welders.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

http://woodworkerstoolworks.com/blog/?p=152

Look up either black diamond guides or wright guide parts. 

There are usually used parts that show up on eBay or owwm.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

This may be the same "Winner".
http://www.winnerwood.com/category/product-catalog/machinery/saws/band-saws









 







.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Might be an easy fix for those*

If you clean and polish the center shaft, then mic it to find it's diameter, you can either find a ball bearing to fit it or a brass cutoff with a hole drilled to match. Rather than replace the entire guide assembly, you could get this one working well enough to use it. It would be a very simple job on a metal lathe, and if I weren't seventeen zipcodes away I'd be happy to do it. Regardless, you will need the correct size to fit a replacement bearing. If you have a friendly machine shop, I'd drop by with the guides and get a quote.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> This may be the same "Winner".
> http://www.winnerwood.com/category/product-catalog/machinery/saws/band-saws
> 
> 
> ...


Yea I came across that company searching from info on the Winner Mfg. Co. They are not very forthcomming on the history of the company so I can't tell if it is the same one. Probably eventually I will send them an email and find out what they say. As of right now the site historian, Jeff Joslin at OWWM couldn't find much on the company. All he could find is this. A 1930 (supposedly) edition of American Lumberman notes, "MISSOURI, St. Louis.—Winner Mfg. Co. recently began manufacture of woodworking machinery." Another note says, "St. Louis — Winner Mfg. Co., incorporated; woodworking; address Wm. H. Hoeflin, Barcelona Drive."

It figures I would buy something that is the only one left the company made. :laughing:


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

What is the diamiter of the tool post ....?

Those guides look like they are in bad shape. New Guides can get expensive, 2x what you paid for that saw. I found something for you that may work. Big question is - what is the diamiter of the post for the upper and I am assuming there is a post for the lower guide assembly as well. Are they offset posts ,adjustment for the upper and lower guides left or right...?



B,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> If you clean and polish the center shaft, then mic it to find it's diameter, you can either find a ball bearing to fit it or a brass cutoff with a hole drilled to match. Rather than replace the entire guide assembly, you could get this one working well enough to use it. It would be a very simple job on a metal lathe, and if I weren't seventeen zipcodes away I'd be happy to do it. Regardless, you will need the correct size to fit a replacement bearing. If you have a friendly machine shop, I'd drop by with the guides and get a quote.


 One of the problems I've been having trying to juryrig a thrust bearing on the old guides is the outer diameter. A 6000 series bearing is 1 3/16" in diameter and the blade would ride so close to the outer edge I'm certain it would slip off. If I had a metal lathe I would have already made the part but I don't. I've been tinkering with adding metal to the upper blocks but the brass one need a lot of metal added. At present I'm thinking of trying to get a piece of steel bar 1 3/8" in diameter and more or less cutting flat washers without the hole. Then drill a 3/16" hole in the center and weld a drill bit in the hole for the pin. Welding it in square with the washer is going to be the hard part.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bweick7 said:


> What is the diamiter of the tool post ....?
> 
> Those guides look like they are in bad shape. New Guides can get expensive, 2x what you paid for that saw. I found something for you that may work. Big question is - what is the diamiter of the post for the upper and I am assuming there is a post for the lower guide assembly as well. Are they offset posts ,adjustment for the upper and lower guides left or right...?
> 
> ...


 The upper guide assemble fits on a 1/2" x 1/2" special made square post. I could weld a piece of 7/8" round stock to the end of it though. The lower assembly is mounted on a 3/8" round rod which is perpendicular with the blade. The set screw is the square head one in the picture on the brass guide and you can see the very edge of the hole.

The adjustment is a screwy looking pin that looks like two bolts glued together end to end but got them off centered so you can move the left or right a little.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

I was talking about the guide post itself,not the raise/lower shaft...

Well,
Here is my suggestion,
You said you have a welder (mig)? , the guides I found are horizontal post mount , same as yours . This may or may not have to be fabricated. An offset mount so you can swing the guides left/right into alignment with the blade. 

Ex: lower guide assembly on my 117-A










Upper guide on the 117-A:











Now you may not have to do anything and they will line up properly. However if you need the guide assembly to be moved L/R you can fabricate the offset with some cold steel shaft from your local supplier, a plate (as pictured , and weld the cold steel shaft you purchase ( you may be able to get a 20mm cold SS and avoid a bushing) directly to the offset plate and then weld the original steel post to that....

One area you will have to address is the conversion, the guide assembly's I found are metric from an Aganazzi ( I think) and they are not cheap new,but- I found them on the bay for $19.95 for the pair.

It is a 20mm post port , you say yours is 1/2" post to the guide assembly. All you would need to do is get a bushing from a local bearing supplier to fill in the difference , fit the bushing in the Agannazzi guide post port, mark the set screw opening , drill a hole through the bushing and tap it , or just drill a larger hole than the set screw so the set screw will go through the bushing without any disturbance . I would tap it , but that's the anal part about me,,....:laughing: if you can purchase some 20mm CSS then no bushing will be needed. 



And finally,
The guide assembly, they look very well constructed- definitely not cheap chicom guides.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Band-Saw-Gu...137?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4172444d71


Just trying to help you get that OWWM back up and cutting some wood


B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I have a set of those Euro disc guides, they are not too bad. 

Later today I can take some pictures of all the different guides I have, it should help you figure something out. 

I have a 1880's band saw that I have no idea who made it, I like buying the obscure stuff. 

Parts and tooling always seem to cost more then the machine.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I see what you are saying now Bweick7. I'm seeing a new problem I didn't think of before. With the mounts I have there is only about 1 1/2" to 1 5/8" between the body and the back side of the blade. That looks like a lot more.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

That's because I can mount a 1-1/2" wide blade on my 117-A .....hence you need to be able to move the entire guide assembly back quite a bit to get a proper alignment on the thrust bearing....

I think you will be fine and there is a lot of options as far as mounting the guide assembly if need be.

For $19.95 when they would sell for around $200.00 ( as long as it is going to work for fitting- which I think they will)

I would contact the seller and get some dimensions on the guide assemblies...that way you know what you have to work with. Remember these are "OFF-SET" guides and not directly centered to the guide post.


B,


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