# Motice and Tenon How?



## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

There have been quite a few threads on this forum lately with questions about M&T joints.

So if anybody is interested I thought I`d take a walk through how I do M&T`s.Iàm not saying this is the only way to do them or this the best way to do them ,just this is the way I was taught how to do them and it may help some one to understand them.

The thread would be headed for someone just getting into the hobby of woodworking and has not got a shop full of machines.


The thread would be more or less on the lines of the thread on dove tails that I did some time ago.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/hand-cut-dove-tails-new-guys-35853/


Any one up for it?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Of course. What's the hold up?:smile:


















.


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## master or nothing (May 20, 2013)

I'm all in for this one. One can't have enough knowledge.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

geez, don't tease us ... just do it!


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Sorry chris just making sure I wasn`t talking to my self.

This is one end of a bench that will be fastened to a wall the legs and rails are 4"x3" so not what you would call fine joinery but it must still be marked out exactly.The timber was rough cut so had to be cleaned up I used a No 5 jack plane just the job for this.

If you rub a bit of candle wax on the sole of the plane it makes the work a lot easer.

Almost every piece of wood I work with is marked up face side and face edge,some people call them witness marks,It don't matter what you call them so long as you understand why they are there and what they do.

These two sides are next to each other, they are square and straight to each,that is important because these two sides are reference points and are used in all your marking off.
Without them you are just shooting in the dark and heading for a disaster.

How many times have you marked a square line around a piece of wood and when you come to the last mark they don`t match up,

Frustrating isn't it,if you use the face side and face edge and these two sides are true to each other the line will always match up.
When marking off you only let the shoulder of the square sit on the face side or face edge and on the last mark they will match up.

The last pic in this post shows how I mark the wood the V is the face edge.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

This post shows the shoulder of the square siting on the face edge or face side only and the final line.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Time to set the mortice gauge, the rails and legs are about 3" thick so using the rule of thumb of 1/3 I set the gauge to 1".I place the shoulder of the gauge on the rail and judge by eye where the pins would be in the middle and mark it with two small pin marks of the gauge.
I lock the gauge and move it to the other side of the rail and mark the stock again so now I have four pin mark on the rail.
By knocking the gauge against the bench on the head or the tail of the stock I minutely move the shoulder of the gauge till the pins sit in the middle of the four marks on the rail the gauge is now set.

I place the gauge against the face side of the rail and mark the tenon the gauge will now only be used with its shoulder against the face side on any piece of wood it marks.

Sorry about the flash in the pics I hope you can see what is going on.

I usually leave the gauge set till the whole job is finished and put a sticker on the gauge to tell me its still in use and what it is.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Billy De said:


> I usually leave the gauge set till the whole job is finished and put a sticker on the gauge to tell me its still in use and what it is.


That one tip is worth it's weight in gold.:thumbsup: 

I can't remember the number of times I've been in the middle of a project and reset the gauge to mark something else and then have to go back and reset the gauge back to the first thing I was marking.

Really illustrates the need for multiple marking gauges during some projects.:yes:


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Tim I picked that up some where can`t remember where exactly I have let gauges go before when I meant to keep them,the sticker just says to me hands off.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Hey Billy*

It could be just me but, it would be easier to follow along if you went "backwards" first. Show us the finished piece first then we'd know where you are in the process. The photos are so close up that I cant grasp the big picture of what's happening.... just me?
The reference marks let me scratchin' my head also, wondering whether the points or the lines were which...?

Not that I don't know a mortise from a tenon....just sayin' :laughing:

Thanks for takin' the time to do this.:thumbsup:
I see you're usin' the "reference standard" for settin' the markin' gauge, :yes: the wife's yard stick.:blink:


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

OK I now mark 1/2"of the tenon top and bottom so the joint will have a shoulder all round it.When I have one rail marked up for length of rail and tenon it is used as a template to mark the other rails for their lengths this way all the rails are the same.

I then mark the top of the leg leaving a good bit of wood on the top of the leg this piece is called the horn and will stop the leg from splitting latter on. 

Placing the rail on the leg and mark top and bottom of the tenon square this across the leg this is the mortice, by using the square put two nicks with the knife on the corner of the leg then transfer these two marks to the next corner and square them across put the gauge against the face side and mark the mortice.

I hope the pics help explain what is here meant.

The joints are marked on the face side of the leg and rail A-A,B-B,C-C,D-D,so there can be no mix up where every thing belongs.

You should be ready to cut the tenons or chop the mortices I don`t think it makes any difference what you do first they are both marked exactly the same.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> It could be just me but, it would be easier to follow along if you went "backwards" first. Show us the finished piece first then we'd know where you are in the process. The photos are so close up that I cant grasp the big picture of what's happening.... just me?
> The reference marks let me scratchin' my head also, wondering whether the points or the lines were which...?
> 
> Not that I don't know a mortise from a tenon....just sayin' :laughing:
> ...


Bill you posted while I was writing ok end job pic.

The reference or witness marks don't point to any thing you can make them any shape you like,all they do is tell me which are my two reference sides and when I square any thing around the wood my square will only placed against these two sides.

The system is as old as the hills and is tried and tested it may become clearer later,basically if I square a line around the wood I only rest the square on two side (lets call them face side and face edge) but I mark all the way round the wood,if I use the gauge I only use it resting against the face side so all mortice and tenons are the same distance from the face and therefore pass 100%


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Nice work up.*

Don't mind me.... :no: Thanks, bill


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

OK on to sawing the tenons this is a subject that I`v touched on before but would like to talk about again.

Addressing the piece, what does that mean,well we have been doing it for so long that we don't even think about it now but if you go back in you memory I bet you can remember being taught how to do it.

Stand in front of the piece feet slightly apart saw resting on the piece(Iàm right handed so)right shoulder in line with the saw elbow into the body,saw held by three fingers and thumb index finger pointing striaght down the saw,left thumb against the saw keeping it in place move the saw forward feel it cutting into the wood feel the resistance of the wood if it bounces around to much steady it up or you are going to loose to much energy on the movement of the wood.
I place the rail in the vice so it is at a angle of about 45 degrees and when cutting it I look at the scribed line on top and also on the side and guide the saw by these two lines.

Originally I used my tenon saw but soon realised that the saw did not have the depth to finish the cut so used a small panel saw with rip teeth.

When the cheeks where cut off I used the marking gauge to againmark the top and bottom of the tenon.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Well it looks like Iàm talking to my self now, probably all that talk of face side and face edge frightened everyone off. 
If your still with this, don`t sweat it ,later it will become clearer.

So the tenons are cut, now for cleaning them up if you have a paring chisel by all means use that but if not a bench chisel will do.

I`v put a pic of how I was taught how to hold a paring chisel when paring down on a piece of wood,fingers behind the blade and in front and the thumb holding the chisel plumb and the you just just bring your shoulder down on the chisel and it easily pars the wood away.

You can use a shoulder plan to clean the shoulders up but I like to use a chisel,putting the chisel in the knife mark and just pushing nice and easy.so now the tenon is finished next post the mortice.


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## MasterSplinter (Jan 12, 2013)

This is great work. Now if I could only cut in a straight line.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

You're not talking to yourself Billy. A lot of people viewing- and a lot of them probably like me, busy weekend planned outside with not a lot of time to spare.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Thanks for clearing that up Tim thought I`D frightened everybody off.


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## Itchytoe (Dec 17, 2011)

Now I guess the only thing stopping me from using more M&T joints is the fact that I can't cut straight.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

OK we delt with marking off the Mortices earlier, so you can beat them out with a beast of a mortice chisel not the quickest way but sure does relieve a lot of tension.

Bench chisels can chop out mortices but the real killer for them is when you want a stub mortice that's a mortice that does not go all the way through the work.

When using a bench chisel to clean the bottom of the stub mortice the chisel can and will break off the sharp edge of the chisel,its just not designed to do that.

A proper mortice chisel is a beast of a thing coming away from the sharp edge the steel increases in thickness and rounds its self off till the stock is like a bar of steel.This round in the steel is important because it is used to leaver against the walls of the mortice and clean the bottom.

Another way is to use a swan necked mortice lock chisel this is probably the most misunderstood tool I`v ever come across,its use is in its name.On a door the middle rail is sometimes referd to as the lock rail because architects like to fit the lock on the same level as the rail.This is ok when its a rim lock fitted on the door but who has rim locks everybody wants a mortice lock right.

So when you chop out for a mortice lock at this level what happens is you chop into the tenon of the middle rail and its a disaster all you do is chop into end grain the swan necked mortice lock chisel is just the tool to get all that crap out of there.I have two a 3/8" and a 1/2".

Any way our mortice is a through mortice and I chisel out a shallow groove about a 1/4" deep and about a 1/8" or so inside my knife marks.The reason for this is a buffer zone so that any damage to the edges is later on pared away. I drill a series of holes inside of the groove Turn the piece around and do the same on the other side.


How do I get the holes to go square and plumb into the wood ,well I can stand right behind the drill and I can see if it is plumb but I can not see to side to see if it is plumb in that direction I solve this by putting a mirror to the side and I can look into the mirror and see that it is plumb. 

Once the holes meet in the middle I then start to clean the mortice out.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Not talking to yourself at all. I am listening! I do have a question, D you you undercut your shoulders to ensure a tight fit? I always try to go for dead nuts square but i do end up slightly undercutting, Since the shoulders are an endgrain glue up. I feel that the joint is not loosing any strength. What are your thoughts?


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Hi John,no I don't under cut the shoulders I was taught the three S`s, square,sharp,shoulders.
Thats just the way I was taught how to do it.The old Journey men that taught me had a very funny view about glue and its uses.They would say the more glue you put in a joint the more stress you put it under I intend to talk about it later,good points.

Originally I would use a shoulder plane for cleaning the shoulders but someone needed it more than me and while it was gone I just got use to using a paring chisel I have another shoulder plane but I just don't use it a lot.


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## master or nothing (May 20, 2013)

My only issue is that my use of chisels reminds me of a monkey doing certain unnecessary things to a football.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

oPINEr I`v just had a vision in my head of a monkey with a football,not a very nice thing at all.
You know some times its not the man but the tool,I can understand it when somebody getting into wood work as a hobby says "I carn`t afford to pay so much for top end tools I just don`t use them enough to justify it. I`ll sharpen them more often".

But there are some tools out there that have the consistency of green cheese try putting them near the wood and its like there was a magnet in the end of the tool and they bend away from the wood,hit them with a mallet and then end just crumbles.

Using tools like that and you will soon loose you enthusiasm for wood working as a hobby.

I look for old iron or in this case old steel there are a lot of cheap tools out there just waiting to be picked up, with chisels I look for ones with beat up handles or no handles at all a name stamped in the blade and no pitting on the face.Here are two that I made handles for just recently a 3/8" and a1/4" parring chisels a real pleasure to work with,both of them dirt cheap.

Its the same for Master Splinter and Itchytoe,what sort of saw are you using is it sharp or blunt cross cut or rip what are you trying to do with it dove tails,tenons,cut a board to length or rip it,you can not do all that with one saw.The panel saw that I use in this thread I picked up to use to make scratch stock, I cut a piece of it and was so impressed with the quality of the steel that I sharpened it.
When you strum your fingers along it your fingers stick to it,its what's called sticky sharp and sawed the tenons like it was cutting butter.If a fly was to land on it it would cut its self to death.

Just take a walk over to the hand tool forum the folks over there are very friendly and would be more than willing to help anybody with advice on where to get tools how to use them or how to fettle them. 

Billy


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Time to try the fit of mortice and tenon.(See pic)ok I`m happy with the fit I then take the tenon out and with a 1" chisel chop about a 1/8" from two sides of the mortice down to about half way down.

The tenon gets two saw cuts in it and a hole drilled at the end of the cuts and the arris taken of the edge of the tenon. I only glue the shoulders and a bit of the tenon clamp it all up an drive two wedges into each tenon and leave for the glue to set.

The old guys that taught me my trade would not glue the tenon up because they said the tenon at different times of the year would swell and shrink back and by glueing would only bring stress into the joint that would lead to the eventual failure of the joint the wedges dove tail the tenon and hold the joint in place.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

The proud tenons and wedges are cut away and planed flush with the legs.the horns are now cut of and the top of the legs cleaned with a smoothing plane.You can now see that if the horns had not been left in place the wedges would have caused to much stress on the legs possibly causing them to split.

The legs are cut to length and the arris taken from the end.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

So now the end frame for the work bench are finished.
I will give it a go at explaining face side, this system has been in use probably as long as man has worked wood.

If you have a number of people planing wood by hand its almost imposable to grantee that all wood will be the same thickness.

So for the sake of explanation imagine that the tenon has no thickness so you can mark it off with a gauge with just one point ,if you set the gauge to the middle of one piece of wood it could be that on the next piece of wood it will not be in the middle and you mark it from the opposite side it could be completely out of true.

To save everyone from total confusion if you mark each piece of wood with a mark that says this is the face side of the wood and all marks will be made from this side,it then stands to reason that every tenon will be the same distance from the face side so the whole of the face side will be flush and any discrepancy will be on the back of the wood.

I knew all this before I started I also knew that the back of the frame would be under the bench and of no interest to anybody.

So on the face of the frame I layed a straight edge across the work and it was flush,I then layed it across the back and you can see the difference.

So now you know what face side means.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

So now you know what face side is and how it is used.

Step two is to explain what face edge is and how that is used.

How many times have you marked a square line around apiece of wood whether its a board or a scantline and when the marks are soposed to come together they don't,If this is the base line of a dove tail or a shoulder and you work to the line then your building gaps into the job.

The old guys knew that you need at least two sides that are straight and square to each other you already have one the face side, the back is no good it has to be one of the other two either the inside edge or the out side edge and that's why it is called the face edge.

We are dealing with ancient meanings here so for the sake of explanation I will call them side 1 and side 2 so to mark a square line we must only rest the square on sides 1 and 2 and the square must rest on what will be the job and not the cut off.

In the pics you will see to start I have rested the square on 

side 2 and marked side 1 then

side 1 and marked side 2 then

side 2 and marked side 3 then

side 1 and marked side 4 then 


You will notice that the square only rests on sides 1 and 2 (face side and face edge).
You can see the join and it is spot on and I like to use a knife to mark it out and work to,using this system I get a square,sharp,shoulder and that's all there is to it.


Billy


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

A couple of questions on the wedged tenon:

The 1/8" you are taking off the ends of the mortise - I'm assuming that is a sloped cut and not a full 1/8" taken off half the depth of the mortise?

The cuts in the tenon - is that just a single saw kerf or is it wider?

How long (approx) does the wedge extend into the tenon? 

BTW - I'm really enjoying this, keep up the good work!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I just use my chain mortiser, hollow chisel mortiser and my 5 head greenlee tenoner.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I just use my chain mortiser, hollow chisel mortiser and my 5 head greenlee tenoner.


Show off......


I'm still jealous of that chain unit


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> Show off......
> 
> 
> I'm still jealous of that chain unit


Wait until I post some pictures of the 5 head Greenlee.:shifty:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Well now that you have that one, ill take the chain one off your hands. Lol.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

trc65 said:


> A couple of questions on the wedged tenon:
> 
> The 1/8" you are taking off the ends of the mortise - I'm assuming that is a sloped cut and not a full 1/8" taken off half the depth of the mortise?
> 
> ...



Tim The 1/8" is sloped you can see it in post No 25, 2nd pic.

The cut in the tenon is a single saw kerf.

How far do the wedges extend into the tenon?

Well I aim at sending the wedge no deeper than half way down,the tenon,the drilled hole is to stop any split being caused by the wedge.
This is where a bit of feeling comes into the job,I made an 1/8" gap either side of the tenon so common sense says each wedge should be 1/8" thick where I intend it to finish on the surface of the leg.

The leg is 4" thick so I want the wedges to go no deeper than a small 2",at this point on the wedge I will see that the wedge is at least a 1/4" thick because as you can see in the pics the cut off wedges are more than 1/8" thick at the cut off point.

If this was a stub tenon the wedges are placed in the tenon and then the tenon in the mortice and the job is the clamped up.The clamps force the tenon into the mortice and the mortice forces the wedges into the tenon.The mortice is also wedge shaped to allow the tenon to spread and dove tail its self into position.

If you get the wedges wrong the tenon can drive its self into the sides of the tenon and it just gets stuck and your not going to get it out that's why its sometimes called the suicide joint.

On stub and through tenons I ease the arris on the end of the tenon.
Whats the arris?In wood work and architecture when you have two flat surfaces joining this causes a sharp point this sharp point is call an arris.When you ease the arris you put a shamfer on the wood. On a through mortice this stops the tenon from busting the wood as it exits the mortice and on the stub tenon it helps to ease the tenon in when it expands. 

Sorry for the long post Tim.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Darcy I understand that a contractor needs his machines I have a slot morticer, but there is nothing wrong with understanding the principals of the whole thing and how to understand and use reference points.

In the original post I did point out that this would be headed for someone getting into this as a hobby and to show them they did not need a shed full of machines to get it done.

BTW I have used a tenoning machine think it was a makita but it only had 4 heads if my memory serves me.Even as a contractor we have to look at machines and ask will this pay be back I wasn't to impressed with the tenoning machine.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

When selecting which will be the face of the leg, any considerations re grain direction? I can imagine the leg splitting if the mortise ran along the radial lines if grain, of that makes sense. 

Any additional considerations if the legs were laminated instead of solid? How bout grain issues with respect to the wedges?


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Railaw I can see where you are coming from but no I never give any consideration to grain direction and can honestly say I`v never had a problem with this joint so long as the horn is left on when wedging the joint up.It is usual that the horns are left on purpose built joinery and only removed when being fitted.

I have see the top of a door stile that was split but this was on a haunched mortice and tenon and the door had been swung for at least 50 years.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Billy De said:


> Darcy I understand that a contractor needs his machines I have a slot morticer, but there is nothing wrong with understanding the principals of the whole thing and how to understand and use reference points.
> 
> In the original post I did point out that this would be headed for someone getting into this as a hobby and to show them they did not need a shed full of machines to get it done.
> 
> BTW I have used a tenoning machine think it was a makita but it only had 4 heads if my memory serves me.Even as a contractor we have to look at machines and ask will this pay be back I wasn't to impressed with the tenoning machine.



I hear you. The Greenlee 532 is impressive though. I am getting set up for window and storm sash production, along with traditional doors.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I hear you. The Greenlee 532 is impressive though. I am getting set up for window and storm sash production, along with traditional doors.



Cant wait for the pics:thumbsup:

Just thinking about windows it may pay to look up mortice and tenon relish, no its not a sauce that you put on the window to eat it but the way the shoulder of the tenon is cut to allow rain water to run off and away from the joint.


The last windows I built where Euro windows two seals for water and two for wind locking in seven different places swing open and also tilt into the room,now they had me scratching my head.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

A hauncher/relisher is on my list, but the old greenlee's or Americans are rare birds these days.

Don't want to start an argument, but the relish sole purpose was to clear the sticking on the styles. The rain water thing is kind of like an old wives tale.

This is a fried of mine's blog and my biggest source of help for getting my old babbitt machines purring like kittens.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

can't paste the link on my tablet.

Search AWWM he has all sorts of info about traditional sash making


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> A hauncher/relisher is on my list, but the old greenlee's or Americans are rare birds these days.
> 
> Don't want to start an argument, but the relish sole purpose was to clear the sticking on the styles. The rain water thing is kind of like an old wives tale.
> 
> This is a fried of mine's blog and my biggest source of help for getting my old babbitt machines purring like kittens.



Not going to give you an argument just a discussion, I understand what your talking about when you say clearing the stick, I used to do it with a flat chisel and an in channel 1/2" gouge making storm sash transoms.

Back in the U.K. in the 70/s I made a packet of money making the storm sash windows for builders that couldn't make them with mortice and tenons.the builders where just throwing these things in and fitting the glass in with door stop mitred and spring fitted.Forward on 10 years and I saw quite a few of these windows getting pulled out,the door stop had wicked at the mitres and the frames where shot.

I know my storm sash`s because I put the capillary`s on my self and they where still in order,and that's not a wife`s tale that's fact.Just bad workmanship on their part.


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## skyking (Mar 24, 2013)

Billy I have read it through and it makes sense to me. I made my first simple MT joints the other day, all glue and no wedges like yours. Luckily it is not a high stress joint.
I want to make some chairs and I see how this would help to make a very strong chair. THANK YOU!


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

*removable wedge*

in the construction of the base of my bench, I am thinking about wedging the tenons on the outside so that the base can be knocked down when i move. Any advise for accomplishing this/its advisability?


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks for the thread. A bit off topic, but do you have a rule of thumb for minimum length of a stub tenon? I have read 5 times the width, but I think that would be too long for many applications.

edit: Reread that and it states the max benefit is gained from 5:1. Still seems very long.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Railaw this thread was about mortice and tenon joints and as you can see what I built was a frame for one end of a work bench.

When you put a piece of wood on the bench to plane you put a lot of torque into the bench and JMHO but you will spend a lot of time running around the bench to tighten the wedges up.

I`V built quite a number of benches that are made to be knocked down later and how I build them is like this.

I build two frames as you see in this thread and then cut four 3"x2" to fit in between at the same level as the mortice and tenons,I drill a hole through the mortice and tenon and then through the end grain in the 3"x2" for about 6"and then at 90 degrees to this I drill a hole through the 3"x2".

Then feed threaded bar through the frame and into the end grain of the 3"x2" then hold a nut in the hole that you drilled at 90 degrees in the 3"x2" and turn the threaded bar into it, fit a nut and washer at the frame and then just tighten every thing up.

When it comes to moving you just let 4 nuts go at each end and the whole thing comes apart.

If you have trouble understanding this then its my fault just let me know and I`ll try to go through it in more detail. Billy


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Sean you Know there is nothing written in stone about mortice and tenons but you have something there about 1/5 ths.

Lets take the bottom rail of a door the thickness of the door is 1"and 1/2" the tenon would be 1/2" wide but if the rail is say 12" high then you will not have one tenon but two tenon going into the rail with haunches.The tenons would relate to a rule of thumb of 1/5 ths but of the top of my head I can not recall exactly what it is sorry about that.
But as I said its all rule of thumb.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

Thanks for the tips. On consideration I think I'll stic to the m&t joints. With the top removable it should move ok. 

I just finished making my very first m&t joint, which is drying now. It is only 1/4" wide by less than 1/2". And I forgot to glue the wedge. But I was excited enough to stay up till 130 doing it. All hand tools by the way. Picture or 2 tomorrow. Wanted to say the wedging action was amazing to watch it tighten up the joint. Didn't know about the wedging until reading this thread so a big thanks to you!


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Way to go man that's what its all about the enjoyment of doing something you`ve never done before without a shed full of machines.

All that Iàm doing is passing on what was given to me freely(tricks of the trade Other mens ideas).

Sometimes to explain an idea with out pics is not the easiest thing so I took some pic`s to explain how I make a Knock-down bench.

First I make the two frames you`ve seen that .Then in the frame I drill a hole big enough to take a washer and then in this case a 3/8" hole into the apron then a 1" 1/4" hole at 90 degrees to this.
Then 3/8" threaded bar passed through the two parts and then fastened up,the pics explain it better.When you come to move it all you have to do is let 8 nuts go and every thing comes apart.:thumbsup:


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Last pic so it makes sense.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

SeanStuart said:


> Thanks for the thread. A bit off topic, but do you have a rule of thumb for minimum length of a stub tenon? I have read 5 times the width, but I think that would be too long for many applications.
> 
> edit: Reread that and it states the max benefit is gained from 5:1. Still seems very long.



Sean its just popped into my head what the rule of 1/5 th is.
Lets say you are building a door that is 1 1/2 thick if you multiply this by 5 it gives you 7 1/2, any rail of 7 1/2 or over must have a double mortice and tenon not a single.A single mortice and tenon would mean cutting to much away from the stile and making it weak.

But as I`v said its all just rule of thumb, but it makes sense. Billy


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