# SCMS vs RAS



## shadowfayre (Jun 29, 2010)

I currently have a 12" SCMS made by Chicago Tools (Harbor Freights) that is no longer operational in the sense of safety. So I am in the market to replace the unit. I was never satisfied with the tool but it was cheap and did what I needed. 

I am on the fence between getting a SCMS or a RAS. I used to have a RAS many years ago from Sears. The primary use is for cross ripping (1x4,1x6,1x8, etc) normally at a straight 90 degree but occasionally I do cut angles and want to have the option to do bevels as I have some modding work that needs to be done throughout the house. 

I read here that a RAS is not recommended for cross-cuts (safety thing). Not sure why that is, but I am not set on either. 

If I go with a SCMS I was thinking either a Makita or a Bosch unit. I prefer to get a 12" even though it may not be required, I would rather purchase something more future-proof per say then to go cheap and get a 10" and later wished I got a 12" I see tools as a long term investment, so I am looking at around 500-750 bucks (no festools, I am afraid). 

I like the controls in the front on the Bosch but I would really like an electronic brake and the model does not seem to state having one. 

Any assistance would be appreciated.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

RAS...A good used craftsman can be found for alot less than $500.


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## thintz (Apr 21, 2010)

The RAS is a quickly dying breed. That is in part to the wide-spread reports of them being dangerous and the new-found capabilities of the modern SCMS. I agree that the RAS was not as dangerous as many believe but the fact is that people were getting hurt on them mostly of their own fault but still, the number of injuries spooked people and insurance folks.

I would go with a good SCMS because of their capabilities and the relatively small footprint. I use the Bosch 10" SCMS and find that it does everything I need. (See the link to my review of this saw below) Getting a 12" sure would head off future needs and give you even more crosscut capacity.

Bosch SCMS Review


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I don't think so.....*

*
Quote:
I read here that a RAS is not recommended for cross-cuts (safety thing). Not sure why that is, but I am not set on either. *
You may be confused ...it is not recommended for *ripping*, (safety thing). Properly set up ripping plywood sheets can be done safely,but requires a 16 foot long table, which is suited to job site applications where a table saw was not available. Blade guard placed nose down on the work surface to prevent lift up. That's another topic however.
I have several RAS, 2 - 12" and 2- 10", and a 10" Bosch SCMS and a Dewalt 12". The set up on the RAS for compound bevels is tricky and may not always return dead on. I use my RAS only for crosscutting at 90 degrees. For all other angles and bevels I use the Bosch SCMS and it's my favorite, easy to change settings and accurate. 
The entry price on a used RAS is around $150, while the SCMS will set you back $500 to $700. You can't cut dados on a SCMS ...easily.
You can on a RAS with a dado head or wobble blade. 
That's food for thought...:blink: bill


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## shadowfayre (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry, I missed read the post. Yeah, I have no need in using the RAS for ripping. I have a table saw (steelcity) for those tasks. I kind of like the idea using the RAS for dado cuts. While it can be done on the table saw, I hate having to change blades so often. Would still have to do it with a RAS but the RAS is not used nearly as often as the TS. Other than that feature, I think the Bosch is sounding more like a better option.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*

Any tool can be dangerous. I wouldn't recommend ripping with a RAS. I wouldn't even suggest a way to rip with a RAS. IMO, a RAS has its place in a woodworking shop, and I'll always have one. As for dadoes, I would not recommend a wobble blade.

A SCMS is a nice tool to have. If you are working with small crosscuts and doing trim, they are great. I have a policy that I'll try to get a tool bigger than I need at the moment. You may get by with a 10" and for what the 12's are going for there's an appreciable difference in price. If you aren't in a rush, watch the ads closely, or maybe a refurbished tool will come along at a good savings.


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## shadowfayre (Jun 29, 2010)

Really like the Bosch, there name is good but at the price point, looks like I would have to get a 10" versus a 12" going with Milwaukee or Hitachi.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Amazon ...*

Has a Milwaukee, 5 star rating, :thumbsup: 12" for $649.00:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001BBTZY4/sr=1-8/qid=1277845942/ref=olp_tab_new?ie=UTF8&coliid=&me=&qid=1277845942&sr=1-8&seller=&colid=&condition=new
 bill
BTW good review of the Bosch 4410:
http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/bosch4410rvu.html
Performance Tool has one:
http://www.performancetoolcenter.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=bosch+miter+saw&x=0&y=0

FWW has a review of 12" SCMS:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/miter-saw-features-roundup-video-reviews.aspx


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## shadowfayre (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks woodnthings. I will check out those links. Need to make a decision soon. While the table saw is doing what I need, I still like using the right tool for the right job kind of thing. One thing I should have noted which may make a difference in recommendations. The tool does not need to be portable. So if that is the only negative on a RAS then that may still be a good direction I should look at.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

I would take that money and spend $100 on a used RAS and then drop a couple hundred on a good CMS and spend the rest on wood! 

For me, I love to leave a dado blade in the RAS and cut dadoes and rabbets all day long and see what I'm doing! Try that with a SCMS! You can do it with a table saw but I hate leaning over to see where I am in relation to the blade! 

Just my $.02 worth!

Mac


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

Can't use dados on any SDCMB that I'm aware of. That said cross cut dados is pretty much the only thing my RAS gets used for now.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I recently put my RAS on long-term loan to the machine shop at work, and replaced it with a table-saw and SCMS. Why? A few reasons.
1) Space. The SCMS, even on the stand I built for it, takes up a lot less space. Since my shop is a one-car garage, that's important.
2) Accuracy. I can't speak for all RASs, but mine just can't be set to anything other than ninety degrees reliably... and I only manage that because I cut a block I use to check the angle. Could it be fixed? Maybe. But certainly not easily, and possibly not at all. 
3) Complexity. The SCMS is easy to use and easy to set. The RAS is easy to use, but hard to set. As other people have said, it's good for right-angle cross-cuts, and that's it.

I have used it for ripping, and it seemed relatively safe (no attempts to grab the board and fling it), but that may have been luck. My RAS also has a splitter and anti-kickback pawls, so it can be made to be pretty safe for ripping. It's an old craftsman, and I'll be re-adopting it as soon as I have enough workshop space. But I won't be giving up the table saw or SCMS -- they're just too much more useful to get rid of.


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## MarshallCairns (Jul 6, 2010)

My opinion is that Each machine has its own use. I would prefer to have both did until the Sears RAS ate its motor. Right now, go for a good SCMS. RAS's are good for building job sites,for cutting framing lumber.


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## mausmi (Sep 1, 2010)

RAS's are good for building job sites,for cutting framing lumber. They are not very portable. For furniture and other craft work,get a SCMS. If you need more width capacity,use your table saw.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Contrary to popular belief, a dado can be cut on a SCMS. Mine, DeWalt, has a lever on the right side. This lever prevents the saw from going down through the table. There is a thumb screw and wing nut for fine adjustment.

How good are the dados? Good enough for shop joints but not for furniture. If you have a blade with raker teeth, it may be a different story.

How efficient is the process? Well, a bit tedious. A 3/4" dado takes 6 or 7 passes of the blade to cut out the dado. (Or if you're like me, 10 or 12.)

How safe is the process? If you are using the saw safely (left hand holds the stock, right hand works saw) there should be no problem. The cut is easily visible and with the insert in the base you KNOW where not to put your hand.


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## oldgoat49 (Oct 30, 2006)

I have a 30+ year old RAS from Sears that I now use strictly for 90 degree cuts. I cut dadoes with it but just by using the regular blade and moving over. Since I now have a double car garage I can dedicate it to the 90deg. cuts. The sliders are nice and take less room, but unless you make a place for it on a table it doesn't give support to a wider board or longer ones. It is nice to have, but I hope my old sears saw doesn't bite the dust.


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

I was faced with the same dilemma many years ago. I ended up with a non sliding miter saw and an RAS. I purchased and discarded 2 Craftsman RAS for not holding settings or being accurate enough. Ended up with a good Dewalt. Dado blade resides on Dewalt most of the time. Power miter saw is more accurate on precision miters.


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## tgates615 (Dec 21, 2010)

I have grown to really appreciate old power tools. More cast iron means durability & stability. I've restored a drill press, a scroll saw, and a Dewalt RAS. Parts for these old tools are suprisingly easy to get either new or used. Even decals can be made (see old woodworking machines.com). I ended up selling newer tools when I got these babies.

I have two radial arm saws with the other being my Dad's 1967 Craftsman. I love the Dewalt RAS. I have kept the C'man for sentimental reasons. The Dewalt is MUCH more accurate.

I paid $100 for my 1959 DW925 and did a limited refurb with primer and spray paint. It looks great and is completely functional. I mainly cross cut with it and it is dead accurate. 

Whatever you end up doing here, don't be afraid to buy old tools. Put a bit of effort into them and you'll have better than is available new at a fraction of the cost. 

A word about safety and RAS's: I hear a lot about RAS's "climbing" the wood at which point the operator is no longer in control and the saw is moving (rapidly) towards him. I'll offer two observations: 1. I've never seen it. RAS's come in a number of flavors from homeowner size to industrial size. I could see a 5 HP or larger saw possibly climbing the wood as described above. In contrast, the homeowner size saws bind and the blade stops-- not hazardous at all. 2. Use a tiny bit of common sense to position your hands and the saw can climb all day long and not put you in any danger.


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## lennonmichael (Dec 23, 2010)

Burnt my SCMS. This remains in motion and I wondered why not buy the RAS, however, but I've never had one. Dice would be nice, but not the decision maker. Most do not care to know the precision and stability. RAS seems to be more precise and stable, because it is much bigger, but I do not know what will go and what to keep swinging from side to side. Also I do not want something that is very out of control. Some experience with both?


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

tgates615 said:


> A word about safety and RAS's: I hear a lot about RAS's "climbing" the wood at which point the operator is no longer in control and the saw is moving (rapidly) toward him. I'll offer two observations: 1. I've never seen it. RAS's come in a number of flavors from homeowner size to industrial size. I could see a 5 HP or larger saw possibly climbing the wood as described above. In contrast, the homeowner size saws bind and the blade stops-- not hazardous at all. 2. Use a tiny bit of common sense to position your hands and the saw can climb all day long and not put you in any danger.


Let me explain how climbing happens.

Woodworker goes to the BORG to buy a new 10" saw blade. If they are lucky and stumble across an intelligent employee that asks, Table saw or chop saw? Even better the employee asks Table saw or radial arm saw?

UNFORTUNATELY many woodworkers go home with a table saw blade and an aggressive hook angle. Disaster awaits. And, no, it doesn't require 5 HP to make a RAS climb. Any home shop Craftsman or Ridgid can climb with ease.


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## midcent' dave (Dec 20, 2010)

Just had to make a similar decision myself. In setting up my tiny basement workshop, I had to chose between a RAS or a table saw. I just can't efficiently fit both and have any room to work. That and budget restraints meant I would have to settle for a table saw that would leave me needing an upgrade in no time. 

Then the decision was made easywhen I sold my old lathe. Ended up getting a RAS, drill press, router, and scroll saw in trade ... and enough cash to start my saw savings.

Love the RAS already! I will probably use my miter saw for all my detail and trim miters though. Although some folks rip large stock with a RAS, I'll pass on that and use my 100" metal guide and a good blade on my circular saw. 

Going to have compromizes either way, but if thought out and planned right, everything will work.

Good luck.


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