# Mortise and tenon shortcut?



## Jorge313 (Mar 14, 2021)

I’m at best am advanced novice.

I’m currently cutting up an old waterbed frame to make a knock down saddle rack for my daughters English saddle.
I’m struggling a little with attaching the legs/feet. 

I’m the past I’ve been successful with dowel joints but I’m concerned with strength under the weight of the saddle. I’m thinking it might be time to try my hand at mortise and tenons.

I'm not confident about my skills with a chisel (or my ability to sharpen one well) so I was planning to cut the mortises with a router.

Instead of trying to square the corners I thought about splitting a dowel in half that corresponds to the router bit diameter and gluing them to the tenon to create a rounded shoulder that fits the mortise. 

Is there any reason not to try this?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

yes, it won't work ... very well. All you need to do is make your tenons slightly oversize in length and round over the sharp edges with a rasp or coarse file to mate with your mortise's radius. It's a common practice for those who do not want to chisel out the square corners for the tenons. Me, I like square tenons and mortises, but I'm not opposed to the round over method. I made a Mission style quilt rack which needed about 30 M&T joints here:








Mission Quilt Rack







www.woodworkingtalk.com


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## Jorge313 (Mar 14, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> yes, it won't work ... very well. All you need to do is make your tenons slightly oversize in length and round over the sharp edges with a rasp or coarse file to mate with your mortise's radius. It's a common practice for those who do not want to chisel out the square corners for the tenons. Me, I like square tenons and mortises, but I'm not opposed to the round over method. I made a Mission style quilt rack which needed about 30 M&T joints here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hadn’t thought of that, but it makes perfect sense! Doesn’t seem too difficult either. Thank you!


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## rogerh (Sep 13, 2020)

I can't see how the dowels would make the tenons any stronger. I know I wouldn’t be able to make the tenons that exact, to worry about filling the ends. I usually just use a file or chisel to round out the tenons if need be.

Roger


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## Pretender (Jun 22, 2019)

Or you could use loose tenons.
Cut the mortis in both pieces them make the tenons to match using a round over bit with the proper radius.


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

The broad flat faces of the tenon is the most important fit. The edges, square or rounded, don't matter much to the strength of the joint. As mentioned, just round the over with a chisel or rasp and don't be too concerned about a tight fit in that direction.


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

Most of the strength in a M&T joint comes from the cheek, where there is the most surface area. Not nearly as much strength is acquired at the edge cut or shoulders. As long as the cheeks fit well, you should get a good joint. Being a little light at the top and bottom will not hurt you. There is no need to fear the process. Do the mortises first. There is no stead fast rule for mortise sizes, but 1/3 the stock thickness is a good starting point. The tenons are cut next. I like to cut them slightly oversize and fit each one. I am sure there are many videos on youtube that will give you some help. There are so many different ways to cut both mortises and tenons that I would suggest watching some videos and seeing if there is a process that appeals to you.


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

Jorge313 said:


> I’m at best am advanced novice.
> 
> I’m currently cutting up an old waterbed frame to make a knock down saddle rack for my daughters English saddle.
> I’m struggling a little with attaching the legs/feet.
> ...


Round over the tenons to fit the mortise. If strength is what you are after try this method on a couple of scrap pieces.
After the mortise is routed and the tenon is rounded on the sides to match the mortise, draw peg the joint.
A draw pegged joint needs no glue and is extremely strong. Here is how it is done.
Select a dowel say 3/8" in diameter. Bore a 3/8" hole in the scrap that represents the leg. Saw the tenon 1/16" short of the mortise. Now place the tenon into the mortise. Use a transfer punch or an auger bit to mark the tenon. Remove the tenon, The mark left by the bit or transfer punch is then bored 1/16+ AWAY from the leg. Bevel the 3/8" dowel by sanding or a pencil sharpener to create a leading point. Measure the leg, say it is 2" thick. Cut the dowel 2-1/2" long or longer. The length is not critical. Insert the tenon in the leg mortise and drive the peg ( dowel) thru . The point will assist in preventing tearout on the other side. What happens is the peg is actually bending slightly as it enters the tenon and pulls the tenon tight to the mortise. No glue needed and it will last as long as the wood itself.
A couple of things to note, the tenon has to be a bit short of the mortise, If your mortise is 1-1/2" deep the tenon should be 1-7/16 or less long. The peg can be cut off flush or left 1/8" or so proud and rounded with a sanding stick you make yourself. Most of the time I install two pegs in each joint, depends on the size of the material used. 
This method was and still used today but most people are not familiar with it. I learned this from a retired Bodger 
( chair maker ) from England . Also in homes built in the 1800's and before that used the same method to fasten studs to beams. The studs had tenons and the beam was mortised. My son's home built in 1843 was built this way.
Beams were 4"x8" . The tenons if I recall were 2"thick 3" deep and as long as the mortise. The studs were 4x 4 + wide. Some were 4" others all different widths up to 6" wide. Some still had bark on them.


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## Tree Hugger (Sep 1, 2011)

You can buy a cheap set of radius gauges to help dial in the rounding. If its blind I round if it's through I run square and proud with beveled edges.








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Buy Accusize Industrial Tools 25 Pc Radius Gage Set Fractional 1/64-1/2'' Gages with Holder, 3602-5021: Radius - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



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