# Recommend a table saw for me



## sofalinux (May 28, 2009)

I am hoping to buy a table saw in the next couple months. I don't need anything extravagant but you know how it goes, better over-kill than common sense. I am really attracted to RIDGID 10 in. 13 amp Professional Table Saw...
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Thats a bunch of money.
I really like Rigid R4512. I like the good fence, the cast iron table, the casters.
I read that it is comparible to the Ridgid TS3650. I can't find a price for the 3650.

The 4512 has a 13 amp motor. The 3650 has a 1-1/2 hp motor. How do they compare?

Is there a cheaper way to get as good a saw?

Any info on them will be appreciated.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Daryl - The 3650 hasn't been made in about 3 years, so how it compares might be moot point unless you're looking at a used one. It was an evolution of a long line of Emerson made Craftsman saws that became Ridgid saws when Sears and Emerson parted ways. In late 2003 Emerson contracted with TTI/Ryobi to build their saws, and the TS3650 was introduced. It's somewhat dated technology but was at least very well proven.

The R4512 is brand new and there aren't a lot field reports yet. The Craftsman 21833 is a nearly identical saw (both made by Dayton), so info about that one should pertain to the R4512 as well. You may read about some alignment issues with early models of the 21833 that may or may apply to the 4512. The 4512 is similar size and has similar motor power as the TS3650, but it's a more updated saw format commonly called a hybrid. The motor is still a belt drive induction motor (I think it's also 13 amps but am not positive), but it's housed inside the enclosure which offers a number of advantages with next to no downside. The R4512 also has a riving knife instead of the more traditional splitter found on the 3650. Both have cast iron tops, but the R4512 uses steel wings instead of cast iron, which is a bit of a downgrade. From what I've seen, the fences look fairly similar. One other saw in this class is the new Porter Cable PCB270TS at Lowes. I know very little about all of these 3 saws, but they appear to be reasonable functional saws for the price from what I can glean of them. I have seen the 21833 go on sale in the low $400s. 

Steel City has an interesting offering with the 35990C that I think is fairly new under their name. This one has a cast iron top vs a granite top...at $599 shipped, I'd at least do some in depth investigation. 

Good luck and please let us know how you're making out! :thumbsup:

Used is often the least expensive route to a decent full size saw, but the market is hit or miss.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Craftsman anyone?*

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...03j&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=19-56207686-2
Same as Steel City I believe. :blink: bill

BTW there are 2 threads on this same subject going right now.


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## jaydubya (Oct 3, 2010)

The craftsman and the steel city are obviously very different saws. just looking at them they cannot be brothers


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

jaydubya said:


> The craftsman and the steel city are obviously very different saws. just looking at them they cannot be brothers


The Craftsman 22114 and the Steel City 35990 are both made by Steel City's Orion subsidiary, and both have cabinet mounted trunnions, but the new Steel City is an updated design that includes a riving knife. The Cman is very similar to the earlier Steel City hybrids.


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## sofalinux (May 28, 2009)

Well, this all sounds very interesting but I was hopeing someone would say, "heres a saw just as good as the Rigid for $350


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Seriously daryl*

I doubt if you will find a quality table saw (new) for $350, unless it's a close out at Sears on Sunday night/family night. I got my 22124 for $486.00 reg $1199 as a close out. :thumbsup:
If that is your budget then you should consider a used cast iron saw from Craig's List. It may be a cabinet saw rather than a contractor saw. There are some decent Delta contractor saw for under $300.00. But the dust collection on those is practically non existent, so a hybrid is really a better deal, but more expensive. So maybe ya can't get there from here, I donno? 
I've gotten some terrific deals on bandsaws just last week.  bill


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## sofalinux (May 28, 2009)

I could muster up the bread for a $500 saw but I would feel guilty, for a while, since I am only a part time tinkerer. I have no problem with looking for a used saw. My main interest is getting a nice cast iron top and a quality fence that moves nice and that I can know is right on. I've been using a '89 Craftsman since, well, '89 and I want nicer and more respectable.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

daryl said:


> ...My main interest is getting a nice cast iron top and a quality fence that moves nice and that I can know is right on...


Don't get discouraged if you find a "nice fence" that doesn't glide all that easily...most can be adjusted and waxed for smooth operation.


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## 240sxguy (Sep 13, 2010)

FYI there is a saw at menards for 450 on sale that seems exactly the same as that craftsman 21833.


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## jaydubya (Oct 3, 2010)

240sxguy said:


> FYI there is a saw at menards for 450 on sale that seems exactly the same as that craftsman 21833.


Yeah, but you can get the 21833 for less. i paid 425 for mine


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## Rodand1 (Dec 22, 2010)

You don't want to go cheap on a table saw. You get what you pay for. You are better off to buy a really good used table saw than a lesser new table saw. If you can spend $500 to $700 you an probably find a good used cabinet saw like a Delta Unisaw or a Jet as compared to a contractor saw. You will find that a cabinet saw won't wobble and vibrate like many contractor saws will. I started out with a Craftsman 10" contractor saw years ago, it cut fine but moved quite a bit. I sold it and bought a Powermatic 66 and now a Delt Unisaw. The difference is incredible. Good luck on whatever you buy.


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## johnnyb (Dec 22, 2010)

jaydubya said:


> Yeah, but you can get the 21833 for less. i paid 425 for mine


wow! How did you get it for 425??? I'm also looking to buy a table saw... Bought the dewalt dw744x and I'm returning it cause the table top is sooo small that I can't cut 24x32 pieces safely and accurately. I can cut that size on dewalt but it's not square. ;( I even thought of adding the miter express from Incra to dewalt but don't think it's gonna work properly due to small table size.

JB


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## 240sxguy (Sep 13, 2010)

jaydubya said:


> Yeah, but you can get the 21833 for less. i paid 425 for mine


Really? Because it is 550 on the sears website.


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## sofalinux (May 28, 2009)

Us non pros tend to buy on looks just as much as on quality, at least I do. Sometimes you look at something and just get a feeling based on the look that its not as quality as they want you to believe. Thats why I love the Rigid 4512. Good features. Good name. And its just plain awesome looking. I look at a lot of other saws and they just have a not-thought-out look. Maybe I need to be more educated as to what is important.

Heres what I know. I need a cast iron top. No ribbing or other designs built into the surface. Also need to pay attention to the wings. You get a cast iron top and you assume you get cast iron wings. NOT SO!!! Better pay attention.

A supreme fence. A lot of saw I look at have what are called "good accurate" fences. But they just don't look good to me. What do you look for or ask about when shopping for the fence? Are there technical terms that I need to know? All I know is that I want an aluminum fence (Why aluminum?) and I want it to move like silk with no binding. I want a micro adjustment but I don't think that is nessessary as long as you have a smooth operating fence.

I do not understand why there is a preference for belt or direct drive.

Do they actually make a good miter fence or is that a situation where you are better off rigging your own?

What is the term for a "non-cabinet" saw. I think the main difference is how the trunion is mounted? Mounted on the cabinet in a cabinet saw and mounted on the top on a non-cabinet saw. Why does it matter?

Well, enough for now. Maybe someone else has some questions.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Daryl,
There are two very important questions that yo need to answer first.

1 ~ How many table saws do you want to buy? (Over your lifetime)
2 ~ Do you have or can you put 230 volts into your shop?

If you answer no or I can't to question 2, that takes you out of the cabinet saw range.

If you answer one to question 1, then the above answers to question 2 need to be yes or I can add 230 volts.

What I'm trying to say, is that most woodworkers aspire to having a cabinet saw. Most woodworkers need two previous table saw purchases before purchasing a cabinet saw. (My third saw was a cabinet saw.) You can save yourself $1500 or so by buying the cabinet saw first.

In no significant order, the following cabinet saws are all good saws. Pick the one that you feel the most comfortable using.
Delta (American Made), Powermatic, Jet, Steel City, Grizzly.

The next step would be a hybrid or "Specialty" saw. To this category the DeWalt and Jet have a model that is not really a contractor but not really a hybrid either. I consider them "Stubby brutes". All are good saws although several years ago the Jet was experiencing problems with the blade elevating system that should be solved by now. I don't think that Jet and Powermatic make a hybrid saw.

The next category is the contractor saw. IMHO these saws are probably a better choice than either a hybrid or specialty unless dust collection is a vital issue. The choices here, again in no specific order, are Delta, Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly. These are all good saws.

Finally there is the job site or bench top saw. These saw are exactly as their name suggests, a highly specialized saw intended to be moved from job site to job site. Most of these are good saws however I wold not suggest any of these for a woodworker. The financial position of the woodworker might make this type of saw a necessity.

The reason that I mention the specific brands above is that the manufacturers of these brands are in the power tool business making the tools in their factory or in a factory contracted to the manufacturer. They are not a third party that uses the manufacturer with the lowest bid.

Without getting into the politics of the situation there is another brand, Saw Stop. It is an expensive, good quality saw with very unique technology. The technology is intended to keep the saw operator safe. Unfortunately the technology doesn't keep the operator safe when operating another brand of saw. IMHO it is better to learn how to use a table saw, any table saw, safely and correctly rather than depend upon a technical device to keep the operator safe.

As for suggesting a brand for you? That is a decision that you have to make on your own. Pick what you are comfortable with.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Steel City Make some nice saws*

Check this one out: http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=12&tool=35960

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=12&tool=35990C


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## johnnyb (Dec 22, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> Check this one out: http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=12&tool=35960


Very nice... what's the major difference between that and the 35990C model?

JB


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

johnnyb said:


> Very nice... what's the major difference between that and the 35990C model? JB


I'm guessin' but price, weight (about 260 lbs or so), table size, and base..... I posted a link to that one above ...do a side by side comparision of your own and see if you come up with any more differences :thumbsup: bill


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## johnnyb (Dec 22, 2010)

It seems you can't do a side by side comparison on the SC site. However, there's a big price difference, table size, and fence between the two. I think 35990C is right on budget for me. I can live with the smaller table size of 35990C's and it's good enough for what I want to do.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The table depth (27") and rip capacity (30") are the same. The 35960 has a full enclosure, industrial fence, seamless table top, a table extension (which you can easily add to a 35990C), and probably a few other differences that are hard to tell from the website.


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## Rodand1 (Dec 22, 2010)

*Table Saws*

Think used! I started many years ago with a Craftsman contractor saw. One of the bigger and better models at the time. It did all I needed for a coupe of years. Then I wanted to cut plywood sheets. The saw would wobble some and it was working hard. A neighbor suggested I look for a good used cabinet saw. The standard size cabinet saw takes about the same amount of room as the larger contractor saws. Since then I have owned a Delta Unisaw and a Powermatic 66, both with Biesemeyer fence and both had the 50" fence. Once you use a cabinet saw, you will want nothing less. I bought both saws used, the Unisaw for $650 and the Powermatic 66 for $1300. The Powermatic came with a bunch of additional goodies, like a Biesmeyer over arm blade guard and a great cut off slide table. You may want to consider holding off till you can afford a good used cabinet saw from Craigslist or your local newspaper. Buy your used saw from a private party, not a cabinet shop. Whatever you decide respect your saw and use it wisely and very carefully.


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## johnnyb (Dec 22, 2010)

I thought about buying used TS also. I checked CL in my area and found someone (very close to me) selling the older craftsman TS. I sent him an email but haven't heard anything back yet. If I do go used route... what should I look for? Obviously the table top, motor (no clue there, other than if it turns on or not =] ). Anything else to look out for?

JB


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

JB - Look at the overall condition...dirty and dull with some patina is fine, but heavy rust is a bad sign. If the saw was well cared for the odds are good that it'll be fine. Run the saw and listen for unusual squealing or grinding noises. Cut something. Unplug the saw and spin the blade and motor and listen for the bearing noise or other grinding noises. The table top should be flat but minor deviations should not pose a problem. Check that the wheels work smoothly...if not, it could just be a matter of cleaning and lubrication, but it could also mean problems with the gears, so check under the hood and look for signs of gauling. Check that the fence works....if it doesn't slide smoothly, it can be waxed, but if it's broken, it'll need to be replaced or fixed. Check the pulleys and the belt...both can be easily replaced if necessary. Most things can be adjusted, so don't worry too much about alignment. Obvious issues like missing or broken items should be compensated for in price. If it's been abused (left outside), respectfully decline. 

Take a seasoned veteran with you if you know one.


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## garryswf (Aug 17, 2009)

Daryl,
After reading all the posts on this thread, which IMO gave you great info, try finding a good used TS (cabinet style if possible). I think you would be money ahead. I have owned no less than 5 TS in my life and wish i would have just bought a good saw in the beginning and had it over with :thumbsup:. Main thing is don't be in a rush and don't buy on emotion, check out every prospect and if there is something, anything about the saw that you have a doubt about before you purchase, no doubt you will be unhappy after you own it. Good Luck!!


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