# Estimating material costs for kitchen renovation



## coffeehound (Oct 12, 2014)

We're about to redo all our kitchen cabinetry, and I'd like to compare the contractor's quote to the cost of materials should I decide to do all the work myself.

Best way to go about it?


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Well, you have to figure out all of the pieces required, lay them out on a sketch pad and see how much plywood you will need. Same goes for the face frame...and drawers...and doors...and then you have to calculate hardware.

Or use a program like cutlist.
Regardless, you will be spending a lot of time and effort to figure it out.

I think the main question is do you have the tools, skills and time to do the job in a timely manner? 
Be honest! :yes:


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## asevereid (Apr 15, 2012)

Your estimate is going to be substantially less than the contractors even if you include every piece and item of hardware that you need. 
What you're paying for (with a qualified contractor) is their skill and experience in delivering your vision in a timely manner. 
If you've spec'd a material choice to the contractor that he's bid on already, why change your mind now?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Your question is analogous to asking what is the price of a new car. Without telling anyone anything about the car.

George


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

With every kitchen there is a certain amount of square feet of plywood and solid feet in the finished product. This is easy enough to figure. Then add 25% for sandpaper and waste for what is going to be scraps and saw dust. Then depending on the size of the kitchen there will be 3 to 4 gallons of what ever type finish you use. Then add about 25% to that for the stain, rags and sandpaper used in the finishing.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

Are you hiring a contractor as you stated to do a remodel or are you hiring a cabinetmaker to make and install cabinets?


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## coffeehound (Oct 12, 2014)

Found a way to rough estimate everything out on another woodworking forum. In inches, height times width of the cabinets, divide by 144 gives you board feet required, plus 30-40% for waste.

I know good and well that I could draw up a full design, lay it out on a sketch pad, and add numbers for a total quantity; if I already had all of that done, I wouldn't need to ask you, would I? Honestly, you think I can't do something as simple as multiplying quantity by cost per unit? I am intelligent enough to know that I'd be paying a professional for his time and proficiency. And finally, if you don't know what I'd be hiring someone for, maybe you should read my very simply worded question a little closer.

I am certain that I'm burning a few briges here, but after the kickback from my last project question and everyone's utter insistence on trying to redesign my project rather than simply answering the question, and the trend in that direction here, I'm starting to think that asking questions in this forum is a waste of time.

For those of you who missed it, let me rephrase my question and spell everything out for you:

I have not yet talked to, hired, or in any way established any kind of relationship with a contractor or cabinetmaker, but when I do, I'd like to know GENERALLY how much materials would cost if I chose to build my own cabinets. I do not have any particular design in mind, but for 17' of lower cabinets (including about 30" of stacked drawers) and 11' of upper cabinets, is there a "quick & dirty" way I can estimate the total quantity of materials I'll need so I can go to my local lumberyard and estimate the price of doing the job myself? Do not bother me with concerns that one wood is more expensive than another - my question focuses on quantity, not quality. Do not bother me with concerns that I don't know what I'm doing - I hire out work I'm not comfortable doing myself. If you want detailed plans down to 1/32" measurements, hardware choices, paint and/or stain colors, and countertop materials, feel free to draw them up for me before complaining that I'm not being specific enough - if I already had those kinds of details, I wouldn't have wasted your time or mine asking the question in the first place.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

> I am certain that I'm burning a few briges here


Yep.

Good luck with your remodel.
Mike


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Yep.
> 
> Good luck with your remodel.
> 
> ...


 Yep.I'd say more that a few.Somebody piss in your cornflakes this morning or what?


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## Parabola (Feb 12, 2015)

Bottom line, when you ask a forum for help with anything whether it's how to poop straight standing on your head or how to nail a nail, there's a certain rule that you may not get it answered how you want. We are not you. People don't do a background check on your skill set before they answer so they don't offend your pride. You'll see all forms of skill from pure newbie to someone much more skilled than you. Better get your attitude/pride in check or you might as well stop using the internet altogether.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I can see it now


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

Lol!


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

@coffeehound I do understand where you are coming from in general but your original post could be interpreted as you already have a quote from a contractor. And quite frankly, I would have just assumed you already knew how to calculate borad feet. I am sure that is why no one had mentioned it. Most folks thinking about making kitchen cabinets have woodworking exprience under thier belt and I would assume that knowing how to calclate bf ft would be a given. 
If you just found out how to calculate bd feet then this project could be over your head. Good luck wiht your project either way you go. I am redoing my kitchen soon and have already made raised panels for other projects which willl greatly help the remodeling.


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## Road rider (Jan 29, 2012)

As a professional cabinet maker in business for 29 years this is the kind of customer that I would pass on any job for him ... If he needs to know it all before he contracts a job then he would be better off doing it himself .... Just my opinion


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

There's really nothing in this other than a bad attitude towards the many who do this for hobby or profession. If one really wants answers regardless of why, they need to be a bit more patient.

Sounds like he's trying to get the upper hand before quotes are drawn.


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## Road rider (Jan 29, 2012)

Exactly .... Quotes are drawn on a lot more factors than cost of materials from a lumber yard ... I don't purchase my cabinet building supplies from a lumber yard ... My main problem with this kind of customer is he will price out some material and then want to tell me my quote is way to high ..... I add my time that it takes to figure a material cost and the time it takes me to price and order materials from multiple suppliers and I also add the time and cost it takes me and employees to unload and stock materials ....

I've had this same thing happen several times in the past .... I've taken jobs on and then had people demand to see my invoice from my suppliers to make sure I wasn't trying to gouge them ..... That's after I've given them the all included estimate .... I usually recommend they shop at a big box store .... I'm busy and don't need those headaches .... JMO
lumber yard prices ... My supplier prices 
Apples to oranges 
Same with type and quality of materials ...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Sometimes they just want to get you about 80% in on the job with cabinets already hung knowing if they can get you to quit there up 20% or the standard 10% upon completion.:furious:


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## Road rider (Jan 29, 2012)

Rebelwork said:


> Sometimes they just want to get you about 80% in on the job with cabinets already hung knowing if they can get you to quit there up 20% or the standard 10% upon completion.:furious:



Lesson learned long time ago the hard way ..... Always always have a signed contract listing all work with payment schedule .... I always have her sign then the husband ... He always ask why he has to sign ... I always say that when she makes any changes he's also responsible for change order cost ....saved me lots of headaches and lost money ...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*maybe there are some industry "standards" for cost*

Those of you who build cabinets "professionally" would be able to go back and calculate cost by the inch or by the foot depending on upper or lowers or pantrys etc....

Let's say all things considered, not including counter tops, standard cabinet material, shop time or assembly, standard hardware, delivery and or installation ....$32.00 per foot for example? High end may be cabinets more like $55.00 per foot.... I donno? I'm just asking if anyone has simplified it down this way?

Some new house construction costs are priced out this way, $$$ per square foot if I recall.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

When I sold cabinets it was by the foot for a standard cabinets. I gave the customer the option to upgrade hinges,construction lumber grade,etc. If they were trying to stay within a price range say $5000-12,000 then they would have the base price and the upgrades could be purchased at will. I tried to quote a price for each upgrade according to what they wanted.

Like a car its a base price and then the higher cost version.

As of right now my cabinet pricing sheet is out of date and I would have to justify price increases in everything from hardwood,hardware and labor. Even the rental price of a 24' box truck:huh:


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

Coffeehound, I feel your pain. It took me over a year to share a project that I worked on and the comments make me never to want to share again.

Saying that, I don't think it's all that hard to estimate the costs of materials if you just take a few minutes to sketch out your design. Top cabinets are generally 12 inches deep, so you can get four 11 7/8 inch wide cuts out of a single sheet of plywood. Upper cabinets are about 30 inches tall so you should be able to get 12 side pieces (6 cabinets) out of a 4x8 sheet of material. Add another 3/4 sheet for tops and bottoms will get your eleven feet. Figure out shelves, another sheet is about three shelves per cabinet. 3 sheets in all for 6 upper cabinets. 

Bottom cabinets are generally 24 inches deep, 36 inches high. If you do a 4 inch toe kick out of a different material, you can get 6 sides (3 cabinets) out of a single sheet of plywood. You have to add the bottoms, 16 feet out of one sheet. Add another sheet of plywood for the toe kick and the top of the bottom cabinets. 

Drawers use for more material then you would think, roughly 8 linear feet of hardwood per drawer, plus material for the drawer bottoms, about 8 drawers worth from a 4x8 sheet. 

Now you are down to doors and drawer fronts. That you can calculate using your square foot formula to determine how many board feet you need assuming you are making raised panels. Add your 30-40% scrap. Flat panel construction would require less hardwood, more plywood/mdf. 

You can look up the price of drawer slides and hinges from any online site, but rough estimate, $20 per drawer slide, $12 for a set of hinges. 

I hope that helps.


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

If forgot to include the backs, but I'm sure you can handle that.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

TerryQ said:


> Coffeehound, I feel your pain. It took me over a year to share a project that I worked on and the comments make me never to want to share again.
> 
> Saying that, I don't think it's all that hard to estimate the costs of materials if you just take a few minutes to sketch out your design. Top cabinets are generally 12 inches deep, so you can get four 11 7/8 inch wide cuts out of a single sheet of plywood. Upper cabinets are about 30 inches tall so you should be able to get 12 side pieces (6 cabinets) out of a 4x8 sheet of material. Add another 3/4 sheet for tops and bottoms will get your eleven feet. Figure out shelves, another sheet is about three shelves per cabinet. 3 sheets in all for 6 upper cabinets.
> 
> ...


Crap I can't afford you


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

Rebelwork said:


> Crap I can't afford you


I'm not building anything. I'm just trying to help the op to estimate cost of materials. If I'm way off you should help correct my answer so the op and I can learn from an expert.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

"my question focuses on quantity, not quality"

This was clear enough for me. Cabinets can be bought right off the shelf at the major big box store. They come in a variety of sizes and choose at will. If he can read a tape:huh: he can figure it out on his own.


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

Besides, I don't know why you think it would be that expensive. 8-9 sheets 3/4 material for carcass at $40 a sheet or about $350. 3-4 sheets of 1/4 inch material at $30 is $120. 95 board feet of hardwood for drawers and doors with raised panel (includes 35% extra) at $2.50 a board foot is $250-$300. Another 20 board feet of hardwood for a cabinet full of drawers, and assuming half of the bottom cabinets are drawers, another 100 board feet, or $250. All together about $1000 for wood. You can spend whatever you want for drawer slides and hinges, but my estimates are for fairly decent quality. Add finishing supplies and you are looking at probably less then $1,500 for a nice set of cabinets.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

TerryQ said:


> Besides, I don't know why you think it would be that expensive. 8-9 sheets 3/4 material for carcass at $40 a sheet or about $350. 3-4 sheets of 1/4 inch material at $30 is $120. 95 board feet of hardwood for drawers and doors with raised panel (includes 35% extra) at $2.50 a board foot is $250-$300. Another 20 board feet of hardwood for a cabinet full of drawers, and assuming half of the bottom cabinets are drawers, another 100 board feet, or $250. All together about $1000 for wood. You can spend whatever you want for drawer slides and hinges, but my estimates are for fairly decent quality. Add finishing supplies and you are looking at probably less then $1,500 for a nice set of cabinets.


Particle board for a cheaper set of cabinets is $20+ a sheet
1/4 maranti or lauan is $12 a sheet.
Your pricing and waste is an over estimate. 

See what your doing:huh:. Your feeding the snake..............


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## TerryQ (Apr 8, 2014)

Great, build your cabinets out of whatever you want. You want to spend all those hours building the cabinets only to have junk, go ahead, personally I wouldn't waste my time. I purposely overestimated the materials as a fudge factor. I'd rather be over estimated then under estimated any day. You want to take a tape measure and buy particle board cabinets from a big box store for you cabinets, go ahead, but I thought this was a woodworkers forum and I assumed woodworkers would like to do the work themselves so they could improve their skills.

I don't know what your deal is. I'm trying to help the original poster estimate what it would cost to build 16 feet of base cabinets and 11 feet of upper cabinets. I've included the costs in my estimate and if the original poster can buy cheaper materials that's fine, just adjust my prices. If he has to go to a big box store to get lumber for drawers and doors he will probably have to pay more then $2.50 a board foot. If he wants t build it out of melamine or mdf or something else he can do so. Want cheaper hinges and drawer slides, fine, adjust the prices. 

It seems that all the previous respondents didn't want to help. They just wanted to give him ****. You aren't any help either, you just want to bitch about my cost estimates. If you can do better then go ahead, I'm sure the original poster would like more then one view point.


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)




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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

mengtian said:


>


+++++++++++++++++1 I like watching the Exorcist


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## tomobrien111 (May 28, 2015)

particle board is JUNK - no place on this forum for JUNK!


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

GeorgeC said:


> Your question is analogous to asking what is the price of a new car. Without telling anyone anything about the car.
> 
> George



I agree with George. You did not offer near enough information for this forum to really help you. 
For instance: 
Do you want to completely tear out your old cabinets and replace with new? If so, what type material would you like the new cabinets to be made of? Solid wood, plywood, MDF?
Maybe you just want a face lift? 
Maybe you just want to replace the doors only?
We don't have enough information to offer any guidance.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

TerryQ said:


> .
> 
> You can look up the price of drawer slides and hinges from any online site, but rough estimate, $20 per drawer slide, $12 for a set of hinges.
> 
> I hope that helps.


WOW!!!

George


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## Road rider (Jan 29, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> WOW!!! George


Must be some of those new fangled self closers for that price


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Particleboard*



tomobrien111 said:


> particle board is JUNK - no place on this forum for JUNK!


Whether we like the product or not, Particleboard is used on more cabinets than you might realize. IKEA alone could keep the product flowing. When someone is asking for the least expensive method of construction and they want to consider everything available, particleboard is part of the decision. 
Personally, I don't use particleboard and don't recommend it for projects, but that doesn't take away the wide use of it for cheap furniture and cabinetry.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

PB been around a long time in cabinetry. Use it or not is your is your choice. Lose a job because you won't use it is your choice. Going broke or out of business is also your choice.

You can inform a customer of better choices but that's the bottom line.

I use it. It yet to fall out of a cabinet yet.


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## tomobrien111 (May 28, 2015)

has anyone ever changed a plumbing trap in a cabinet with a particle board bottom - goes to mush with any moisture exposure... fasteners get 1 chance - adhesives work ok with pressure


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

tomobrien111 said:


> has anyone ever changed a plumbing trap in a cabinet with a particle board bottom - goes to mush with any moisture exposure... fasteners get 1 chance - adhesives work ok with pressure


Ever changed the bottom in cabinet with plywood under a trap to find MOLD everywhere. Particle board or plywood both have problems.


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## Hackberry (Jul 4, 2013)

wendell white said:


> I've had this same thing happen several times in the past .... I've taken jobs on and then had people demand to see my invoice from my suppliers to make sure I wasn't trying to gouge them ..... That's after I've given them the all included estimate .... I usually recommend they shop at a big box store .... I'm busy and don't need those headaches .... JMO
> lumber yard prices ... My supplier prices
> Apples to oranges
> Same with type and quality of materials ...


Your materials price is none of the customer's business. My painting contractor will buy the same paint I buy for less. He is buying wholesale and a lot more volume than I as a single house (mine) painter. Same with my auto mechanic. Sure I can buy a brake rotor for $55 from the auto parts dealer. That same rotor will cost me $110 from the brake shop. The brake shop guy is entitled to make a profit and needs to make a profit to just stay in business. So do cabinet makers.


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## Road rider (Jan 29, 2012)

Hackberry said:


> Your materials price is none of the customer's business. My painting contractor will buy the same paint I buy for less. He is buying wholesale and a lot more volume than I as a single house (mine) painter. Same with my auto mechanic. Sure I can buy a brake rotor for $55 from the auto parts dealer. That same rotor will cost me $110 from the brake shop. The brake shop guy is entitled to make a profit and needs to make a profit to just stay in business. So do cabinet makers.


Some of what you state is truth ... Same paint price same rotor price but the materials I purchase for cabinets is not the same material that's sold at big box stores ... The quality of plywood and hardwood is very different ... Try purchasing hickory or clear alder at a box store ..


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