# income for furniture makers $$$$?



## caryhson1 (Jun 16, 2010)

I am trying to set some financial goals for myself and was wondering what the range of income was for Furniture-Makers/professionals who use the craft as their main source of income. 

Anyone care to share a yearly average or range or what you wish you made? 

I love what i am doing and am going to do it regardless. There is just no "salary calculator" for this particular profession. Ive even tried looking up info on the IRS website.

Thanks in advance. don't be shy 

--Cary


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Cary first time posters that have questions like this for a first post are not usually responded to as much. If so we can't give a good answer because your question lacks all the facts needed to give a good answer. I would add that questions like this one are almost impossible to answer because of so many variables and most people wont even try especially for your first post. 

First you should post under the introduction section. Next I would setup an album with pictures of your work. You should also post info in your profile. Then you can start with posting questions that are complete with all info needed to help you. Although we are all willing to help, we look forward to you posting answers are suggestions to other members post as well.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

rrbrown said:


> Cary first time posters that have questions like this for a first post are not usually responded to as much. If so we can't give a good answer because your question lacks all the facts needed to give a good answer. I would add that questions like the this one are almost impossible to answer because of so many variables and most people wont even try especially for your first post.
> 
> First you should post under the introduction section. Next I would setup an album with pictures of your work. You should also post info in your profile. Then you can start with posting questions that are complete with all info needed to help you. Although we are all willing to help, we look forward to you posting answers are suggestions to other members post as well.



Well said, and I agree 100%. Using the words..."Don't be shy", why not fill out your profile?




caryhson1 said:


> Anyone care to share a yearly average or range or what you *wish* you made?
> 
> --Cary



It's comments with that type of wording that sets up for an agenda.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

I have looked in vain for a lounge small chairside table storage unit. Even posting here. Finally tracked one down via offer in a magazine.

Cost delivered was approx $150. made in Thailand.

Only furniture makers making a decent living in UK are those offering a bespoke service to people who can afford to pay. Virtually all UK furniture shipped from Far East.

Saw a TV prog re Shipping Containers which stated that traditional loading of ships (sometimes taking weeks) cost $5/ton. Using containers (taking hours) reduced cost to 15cts/ton. One reason why low labour cost countries are now the workshops of the world.

Western world can only compete at top end of any market where cost not so important.

Use of pocket holes instead of dovetails illustrates difference in market requirements.

johnep


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

rrbrown said:


> Cary first time posters that have questions like this for a first post are not usually responded to as much. If so we can't give a good answer because your question lacks all the facts needed to give a good answer. I would add that questions like the this one are almost impossible to answer because of so many variables and most people wont even try especially for your first post.
> 
> First you should post under the introduction section. Next I would setup an album with pictures of your work. You should also post info in your profile. Then you can start with posting questions that are complete with all info needed to help you. Although we are all willing to help, we look forward to you posting answers are suggestions to other members post as well.


I totally agree.


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## Gravel7 (Mar 16, 2009)

*Hello Cary,*

Wish I had an answer. I am curious myself. I sold a little over 3 grand last year. Just selling what I make on the weekends. Woodworking is not my source of income. has become a source of income for tools and upgrades though. I have done a tremendous amount of work for family members and always refuse payment. Would have made a lot more $ if I new more strangers:laughing:.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*There are many types of woodworkers*

We have members here who make everything from pens and bowls to very high end conference tables upwards of $30,000, to high end home and commercial projects like bars and entertainment centers. Since off shore suppliers can get labor at pennies per hour it's hard to compete with that. So, making furniture as a profitable venture, will require that you find a market niche between the low cost pieces made by the thousands and high end, one of a kind custom "art" and that will cover a very wide range. I don't think that income specifics will be of much help. You will need to establish what income you need to be "profitable" and set goals to achieve that, never mind what others do.
Also what specific skills do you have to set your work apart from the many thousands of others who work with wood as a hobby or professionally. These are questions you should have answers to before starting such a business venture. JMO. bill


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

Forget it's a custom size to fit a niche, or a material or finish not offered at Bob's discount Furniture. Forget the Inlay or carving not on the store bought item that they want or that the material alone costs me half or more than what the retail is from the big store.

All too often I'd get, "You're kidding right? I can buy the same thing at "X" or "Y" for a 1/4 that." I used to try to explain over seas labor, mass production, computer operated machine labor, etc, but in general it fell on deaf ears. 

I create for myself, the family and the odd present for a friend if and when someone sees one of my projects and asks wifey, I or whoever has the item where they got it I occasionally get an order for something unique.


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## johnv51 (Oct 27, 2008)

Ghidrah said:


> Forget it's a custom size to fit a niche, or a material or finish not offered at Bob's discount Furniture. Forget the Inlay or carving not on the store bought item that they want or that the material alone costs me half or more than what the retail is from the big store.
> 
> All too often I'd get, "You're kidding right? I can buy the same thing at "X" or "Y" for a 1/4 that." I used to try to explain over seas labor, mass production, computer operated machine labor, etc, but in general it fell on deaf ears.
> 
> I create for myself, the family and the odd present for a friend if and when someone sees one of my projects and asks wifey, I or whoever has the item where they got it I occasionally get an order for something unique.


Well said. I've had many similar experiences. People will quote prices from the Furniture Barn and other discount locations. My response is "Go ahead and get it there." The majority of orders for my shop are from folks that have seen a piece in my house or a friends home.


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## ash123 (Mar 14, 2010)

Professional woodworking is a form of prostitution. What are ya willing to do for money? I did it for almost 20 years. The first 6 years I struggled. The last 14 years I struggled different. My income ran from under 20K in the mid 70's to in the middle six figures in the last decade. 

I found to make the most money required me to do that which no one else wanted to do. That meant I had to do that which I didn't want to do either. I never made any money doing much of anything fun. If it was fun, it didn't pay. I never made one cent building a monument to myself. Anything I couldn't hire a guy to do better and faster than me was called a "special". I'd set aside two weeks a year to do the specials who wouldn't go away. One week in the late fall and another in late May or early June. Those were loss weeks.

If I needed a pay check today, I'd subcontract installation of kitchens and vanities for builders and cabinet dealers. Work alone and do one house a day. That'd gross between three and four hundred a day. I need a van, tools, tax license, and liability insurance. 

I personally only ever knew one guy to make a living making furniture items. I doubt he ever made even 50k a year doing it. I know lots who tried and went broke. Most of em quit disillusioned, tired, with a big pile of debt, and likely as not with ruined credit. I hope they had a good time.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ash123 said:


> I personally only ever knew one guy to make a living making furniture items. I doubt he ever made even 50k a year doing it. I know lots who tried and went broke. Most of em quit disillusioned, tired, with a big pile of debt, and likely as not with ruined credit. I hope they had a good time.



Then there are those that live in tropical climates that can work all year 'round. There are those that started with nothing but are excellent craftsmen and have a good business head and can manage a business. There are those that develop a good professional clientele of designers and architects that provide continuing work. 

There are those that really enjoy their work and the profits supporting a household and providing employment for others. There are those that enjoy life outside the shop...drive BMW's, Porsche's, and various motorcycles.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Speak for yourself.....*



cabinetman said:


> Then there are those that live in tropical climates that can work all year 'round. There are those that started with nothing but are excellent craftsmen and have a good business head and can manage a business. There are those that develop a good professional clientele of designers and architects that provide continuing work.
> 
> There are those that really enjoy their work and the profits supporting a household and providing employment for others. There are those that enjoy life outside the shop...drive BMW's, Porsche's, and various motorcycles.
> 
> ...


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

It's great when you can general out jobs to people. My MO was if I can find someone that can do the jobs as well as I and for less money They'll be doing them for me and I'll make a percentage off them and allow myself to do something else at the same time.

The problem with that is when I found someone that did something the way I did they were more expensive than me and when I found someone in the price range I work at they lacked the skill tools and or resolve.

Lastly the area I'm from is saturated with workers because of the boom and its bust and not enough work to go around. Some, (read more and more) customers are willing to forgo building permits, licenses and insurance to get a lower price until something goes wrong. 

There are many willing to do the work without all the above and many of them are unqualified to do it because they lack the items above to be legit.


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## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

I read everything here and I sum it up to mean,You really have to have it together in all aspects to make a living doing woodwork.It seems most people do it to supplement their income besides their fulltime job or its a hobby they really enjoy.For me,I enjoy doing it and I make a few bucks making guitar stands and selling them on E-bay which allows me to buy tools or say put tires on the truck.Itchy


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## toddj99 (Jan 1, 2008)

I do it on the side after retiring from the army about 3 years ago. I got a regular 9-5 type job and couldn't stand to sit on the couch from 5 to whatever watching tv and waiting to go to bed. I am currently using it to pay for my little girls braces. When I started, it was small jobs for coworkers and I openly told them that they were paying me to learn. I've now gotten good enough to raise my prices and start making some decent money at it although not even nearly enough to disillusion myself into thinking I can support the family on it.


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

I look at it as a non-loss hobby. That means that it's a hobby that I love and that pays, either by a customer or by saving me money from buying something, enough to break even and keep supporting my hobby. I look at other hobbies and think mine is not so bad. Take golf for example. There's a hobby that COSTS money, and lots of it. Not only in equipment costs but ongoing memberships, green fees, etc. Fishing is another. Lots of cost and nobody pays you. Or hunting. Same as fishing. Even if you shoot something, it's not saving you money over buying something at the market. How about collecting stuff? There's a hobby that also COSTS more than you get out of it. And restoring old cars. Woah. Money, money, and huge time. And when you're done, you either keep it (that means no money), or sell it at a loss. I used to play in a rock band and that is also a hobby that is kind of break even or make a little. But not much. So, I guess WW is not so bad if I think of it as a hobby that just happens to not cost money. But golf has to be the worst. I know I will get arguments on this.


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## caryhson1 (Jun 16, 2010)

Thank you all for the responses. I know I am a new member, and have not filled out a profile. I am a member of other communities and thought I would stretch my feelers out a little further this time. 
Sorry RRBrown and Tony B. I did not know your forum rules. I must admit your fellow forum buddies where much more welcoming an helpful. I do in fact have “an agenda”. Setting financial goals. It there something off about that? 


I work full time building furniture, and between my wife's and my income we do pretty well. I just want kids and to let her have the choice to quit her job. To do so would mean either major lifestyle changes or me making more money. I wanted to get an idea of what other craftsmen were making to gauge how well I am doing monetarily and if there was any room for improvement (realistically). My question was vague in an attempt to not cloud responses with to many details. Tisk to the naysayers, I am and will do what I love doing. There is nothing unrealistic about it following a dream. People are doing it every day. The main reason I think good craftsmen fail is that they are not good businessmen/women. Second, they get discouraged and start disliking what they do, like several of you mentioned. Third, they take on too much too fast, work debt and expansion.
Gtg make dinner before the wife gets home. Until next time, all the best.


--cary


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

caryhson1 said:


> Thank you all for the responses. I know I am a new member, and have not filled out a profile. I am a member of other communities and thought I would stretch my feelers out a little further this time.
> Sorry RRBrown and Tony B. I did not know your forum rules. I must admit your fellow forum buddies where much more welcoming an helpful. I do in fact have “an agenda”. Setting financial goals. It there something off about that?
> 
> 
> ...


Cary Sorry if you think I was not very welcoming, I would have to disagree though. I nicely stated that your post lacked serious info needed for such a question to get a good answer.

As for rules it isn't a rule but should be for members to make there first post a introduction as it is with other forums. I consider it a courtesy myself but hey that's just me. A profile and pictures of your work show a willingness to participate in our forum rather then ask a question and leave. 

I gave a detailed and considerate response to your question in an attempt to help. It seems that you took my reply other then it was intended.


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## carpenter1 (Jul 5, 2010)

Just have fun and the money will come. You have to be versital and imaginative to to set you apart from all of those who preceeded you.


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## scribbles (Mar 2, 2009)

Wood is a medium that is all. If you want to know what your skill is as a carpenter it is worth $8-$10, that is all. However, woodworking is also an art form, and as such worth whatever someone is willing to pay. If you want to get rich, go be a layer, you can make a good income as a carpenter but not with your current mindset.


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## Microtus (Jun 22, 2010)

I might be a newbie but "non-loss hobby" sounds about right. Great way to put it in perspective, thank you. He'll, I'm a jeeper (ie a boat with wheels), talk about throwing away money. Even then I only go on one or two runs a month. 

I've melted enough metal, wood sounds good.



TS3660 said:


> I look at it as a non-loss hobby. That means that it's a hobby that I love and that pays, either by a customer or by saving me money from buying something, enough to break even and keep supporting my hobby. I look at other hobbies and think mine is not so bad. Take golf for example. There's a hobby that COSTS money, and lots of it. Not only in equipment costs but ongoing memberships, green fees, etc. Fishing is another. Lots of cost and nobody pays you. Or hunting. Same as fishing. Even if you shoot something, it's not saving you money over buying something at the market. How about collecting stuff? There's a hobby that also COSTS more than you get out of it. And restoring old cars. Woah. Money, money, and huge time. And when you're done, you either keep it (that means no money), or sell it at a loss. I used to play in a rock band and that is also a hobby that is kind of break even or make a little. But not much. So, I guess WW is not so bad if I think of it as a hobby that just happens to not cost money. But golf has to be the worst. I know I will get arguments on this.


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## marly (Apr 13, 2010)

With wood working and you’re doing it yourself you can save some money on furniture. My wife and I made some very nice outdoor furniture that would have cost us $1,400 if we bought it from on the web or locally. We were able to build the same quality or better on our own for about $350.00(plus tons of money in tools, but that’s an investment… :laughing: ). 

I had someone come to me wanting to have some shelving made “cheaply” that they’ll use for a little bit and toss out. The problem is that you can’t build shelving cheap. You can get some nice wood cheap but I really can’t build it cheap. What I mean by that I have to actually spend some time and make it look nice. – Time is money, even if you do it for “free”, you still don’t want your work tossed out in the future (especially if you do it for free). 

Now you can build some shelving cheap, I suppose for $10 you can get some standard pine boards and air nail them together and paint them black or something. The problem is, that’s not what they wanted, they wanted something that “looks nice”, in the end you tell them that they’re probably just better off going to Wal-Mart and get some of those bookshelves. “But those are expensive and are crappy” you hear, if you build it, it’ll be better quality. – “Exactly, but time is money”. And you’ve now ran full circle. 

marly


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## buchhakj (Jul 7, 2010)

I work for a self started fine furniture shop and it is not easy there are 3 employees and its a never ending battle to stay in the green. you have to have a good clientele to do it for a living at least a good one.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

If you want to make over 100K per year as a furniture maker, you had better be realistic and find yourself in the top three woodworkers in the state. The few woodworkers that I know that make in excess of $100k are also incredible cabinet makers and 90% of their income is in cabinets. They pretty much work alone and hire only when they need heavy lifting. 

Its the artisans that make the money, not the craftsman. A good artisan with OK craftamanship skills will make more than a good craftsman with ok artistic ability. Those that have both are rare and make lots of money with no problem at all. 

A combination woodworking business can make a very good income. By combination I mean, repair, refinish, antique restoration, cabinet making, furniture making and general woodworrking. Touch-up and repair is a whole different art.


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## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

Cary,
It's hard to predict what you can expect to earn as a furniture-maker/woodworker. I'd say it's going to depend upon things like skills, experience, location, and so forth. 
However, the Bureau of Labor Statistics publishes and Occupational Outlook Handbook annually that provides some average figures. Here is the link for the 2010-2011 version under the heading of woodworkers. Note, there are additional links to various categories of woodworkers at the bottom of the linked page. Your individual circumstance may be quiet different from the averages described in the Handbook. 
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos237.htm

I hope that link works. I'm new to this forum and not real sure how to post a link. I just used copy and paste. If this doesn't work, just type the link into your browser. Again, don't take this a the final word, it's just a guide based upon reported income and expectations for the occupation.


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