# Taming Shellac Finish on the Lathe



## Thorn495 (Feb 28, 2014)

Anyone know how to get a good shellac finish on the lathe? I've tried all sorts of different things I found online from French polishing, using very fine brushes, different denatured alcohol to shellac ratios, spraying, buffing with steel wool, but I can't seem to get a smooth finish from the stuff. It's been a battle the last 2 weeks and I'm almost out of denatured alcohol. Even sanding at slower RPM's gunks up the sand paper. I guess, once I run out of shellac from experimenting, I'll stick to poly and lacquer if I can't get it to work. Any luck with it for you?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Spraying Lacquer is always my first choice. 
Dries in a few minutes.
I just turn my handwheel slowly while I spray.
A friend of mine used poly and he hooked up an old BBQ motor to his lathe with a pulley on the handwheel. He used it for spraying and got excellent results from the slow turning wheel.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you are spraying the shellac and allowing it to dry completely and sanding between coats on the lathe I don't know how you could do better. If the finish is gumming up on the paper I suspect there is insufficient drying time or the shellac is old. I like lacquer too but shellac shouldn't work that much different.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Like Steve said, shellac that is either old or not dry will cause corns on the sandpaper. Corns can also be caused by using a grit that is too fine and running the lathe too fast. Also, applying too much pressure with the sandpaper or using worn out sandpaper are two other errors in technique. Believe it or not, sandpaper wears out ... and much sooner than most of us think it does. So, my personal rule is to use sandpaper like somebody else is paying for it. :smile3:

You didn't explain specifically what the finish problem is, but I would guess that it boils down to technique. If you are applying with a brush then you may be applying it in a coat that is too thick. Also, if the shellac is not properly thinned, the coat might be too heavy. A one-pound or two-pound cut is about right. If you are applying multiple coats, that can also be a source of problems if you don't allow sufficient drying time between coats or if you apply coats that are too thick. I use a rag to apply shellac and apply very thin coats. Also, wipe it on and then don't touch it. Repeatedly going back and forth over shellac to smooth it out will do exactly the opposite.

If your shellac is over six months old then toss it out and buy some fresh shellac.

ps, my first rule is to never finish on the lathe, especially not with spray finishes -- I put that in the same category as rebuilding a carburetor on the kitchen dining table.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

Have you tried this mixture yet?

1 part BLO or Tung oil
1 part Shellac
1 part denatured alcohol


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

I use shellac a lot but my style may not match what you do. Most all of my turnings are more natural or low luster.
I give it a wash coat of thinned shellac, wait a few minutes and go back with normal thickness. I do not worry about lap marks or runs. When it is dry a little (just past tacky) I dampen 4-0 with DNA and rub with the lathe running then check to see it all areas are smooth. When dry I again burnish with 4-0 to a soft luster; for a little more shine I burnish with dry shavings.
For some small items (boxes, ornaments, etc) I use the same procedure (minus the shavings) and basically apply as a French polish. I use Mylands and you can build a high gloss very quickly. A coat on a box which is 2" diameter by 5" high takes about 2-3 drops per coat max. Yep, takes a lot of coats but on the example I can apply a coat every 30 seconds so even 20 coats only takes about 10 minutes. By the time you get from the top to the bottom the top is dry and ready for the next coat. Take care with your application pad as any wrinkle will hold the finish and you will have streaks around the item. The formula given above should give about the same results as Mylands.
Most high gloss items I give a coat of Renaissance wax at the end.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

You said you've tried different brushed, but have you tried a cotton pad? I've never managed to get a brush to lay down a good coat of shellac, but padding it on always seems to work


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

ChiknNutz said:


> Have you tried this mixture yet?
> 
> 1 part BLO or Tung oil
> 1 part Shellac
> 1 part denatured alcohol


My finish of choice and gets the best results consistently.:thumbsup:


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

As others said, if the shellac won't sand, it may be because it's old. Also, you need to get some build in order for it to even out, but remember, each cost dissolves the prior cost, so if you re-coat too soon, you'll dissolve most of the first coats. 

I think chicknutz recipe is the ticket. The oil helps things smooth out. Also, I think that making shellac from flakes is so far superior to the canned stuff it's astonishing.


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## Thorn495 (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks for all the help. Yea, I've been using the Zinsser Bullseye stuff. I haven't checked if it has a date on it or not. I saw a video where a guy used de-waxed shellac (Zinsser Sanding Sealer) to make the grain pop on curly maple and I've been trying it for the past 2 weeks, lol. Maybe looking into the shellac flakes will make a difference. I wouldn't want to use BLO since that darkens things a bit and turns maple yellow/orange, but, in my experience, it does bring a lot out in darker wood tones. I'll keep experimenting with what I've got from ya'lls advice.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The can shellac, de-waxed shellac and the flakes are all the same thing. It's just they filter the natural wax out of the shellac for the de-waxed shellac. The flakes are just dried shellac which gives you the means of having the shellac fresh by mixing what you need at the time you need it. After all there is no telling how long the can of shellac has set on the store shelf before you buy it.

Shellac can also give a yellow cast to maple. If you are going to try the flakes I would recommend getting the super blonde flakes. It would be a much clearer finish.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> .... The flakes are just dried shellac which gives you the means of having the shellac fresh by mixing what you need at the time you need it....


No, Steve, that isn't correct. The flakes are the refined (various grades from garnet to super blonde) of the "leavings" of the lac beetle. Once the flakes have been dissolved in a mixture of ethanol and methanol it begins to catalyze. Liquid shellac isn't dried out to make flakes and dried shellac isn't the same thing as the flakes that you can buy. We can't use alcohol to "reconstitute" dried shellac to make a fresh batch because of several factors including that it may only partially dissolve and it will not cure to a hard finish. The process is actually the opposite of what you stated. The shellac that you buy in a can ready to use was made from flakes and once it has been mixed, it has an optimum shelf life of six months, but under ideal storage conditions, a frugal person could get by using year old shellac. This is why mixing your own is a vastly superior method although much less convenient.

The main trouble with buying it in a can already mixed is that there is often some very old stuff sitting on the shelves. I have also discovered that the flakes can go bad over time especially if air and moisture can get to it. I have seen it sold in plastic bags which is the worst packaging imaginable, but even the plastic tubs aren't exactly great. I transfer mine to sealed canning jars and store them in a cool dark cabinet to maximize storage life.

I have also discovered that when you buy dewaxed shellac, either in a can or as super blonde flakes, there is still a lot of wax in the shellac despite the name. I do my own filtering and find it necessary to change the filters once or twice when making a quart size batch because the filter will simply clog up with the thick white wax.I usually make my shellac as a one or two pound cut, because a three pound cut is almost impossible to filter without fancy equipment.


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## dartman (Oct 12, 2012)

So my personal rule is to use sandpaper like somebody else is paying for it. :smile3:
^
This is what I was taught.......


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## John Kos (Apr 7, 2015)

If you decide to try something else I just tried the CA "super glue" finish used by Eddie Castelin, among others. It was super easy and super effective. Just be careful to not burn your fingers. If you pug in "Eddie Castelin" on you tube and look for the CA bowl finish episode I think you'll like it. Good luck!


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## Thorn495 (Feb 28, 2014)

John Kos said:


> If you decide to try something else I just tried the CA "super glue" finish used by Eddie Castelin, among others. It was super easy and super effective. Just be careful to not burn your fingers. If you pug in "Eddie Castelin" on you tube and look for the CA bowl finish episode I think you'll like it. Good luck!


Thanks! I've seen that and the shine juice one. I thought of a woodworking joke about shellac: "Shellac? Can't sand it!" Get it? Actually, I've come up with a new method that's worked so far. It's sort of like applying CA glue and French polishing. I soaked some denatured alcohol into a sponge that I put into my girlfriend's old nylon knee high; then I sucked some of the shellac into an eye dropper type of syringe and drop the shellac on the spinning wood while rubbing it with the knee high/sponge/DNA thingy. It's worked out so far. Pretty good "chatoyance."

I chose the knee high instead of cotton cloth since it's softer and smoother. I used a sponge instead of cotton balls, cause the cotton in the knee high would leak out and stick little white cotton fibers onto whatever I was trying to shellac.

Does that all sound like logical sense?


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## John Kos (Apr 7, 2015)

I don't mean to mind your business but I wouldn't go anywhere near a lathe with a cloth/rag of any kind, especially a nylon stocking type rig. I think the danger level of doing so reaches a pucker factor of 10. Maybe you should consider paper towels, far less chance of getting a hand or worse stuck in a turning lathe. Maybe I'm overly cautious but that scares the beejeebers out of me...


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Thorn495 said:


> ..... I thought of a woodworking joke about shellac: "Shellac? Can't sand it!" Get it? .....


Don't quit your day job.


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## Thorn495 (Feb 28, 2014)

John Kos said:


> I don't mean to mind your business but I wouldn't go anywhere near a lathe with a cloth/rag of any kind, especially a nylon stocking type rig. I think the danger level of doing so reaches a pucker factor of 10. Maybe you should consider paper towels, far less chance of getting a hand or worse stuck in a turning lathe. Maybe I'm overly cautious but that scares the beejeebers out of me...


Why is that so scary? Running at low RPM. If anything grabs something out of my hand, I'll just let it go.


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## Big Jim (Sep 29, 2011)

*NO you won't!*

The lathe may JERK something out of your hand, but you won't have time to "turn it loose"!
Bad habits are hard to find and then stop.
So try to make it standard procedure to not have sleeves or shirt fronts that even MIGHT get to spinning tool!
Some day you may have a chance to use a real large lathe, when that day comes you need to have good turning habits.
Google "lathe accidents" and see what a real lathe can do to a human body! 
Our lathes are not so powerful as some large ones but you have a good chance to make a hospital visit even from one of the small ones.
Big Jim:vs_love:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

At the very least I would be afraid it would grab the rag and the rag would hang on the tool rest and bust your turning. It's just a basic safety rule not to have any loose cloth near running machinery in a wood shop whether you are wearing that loose cloth or not.


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