# Need help! TV stand in the making.



## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

Hello from mid-Georgia again! I want to make a TV stand that will hold a TV on top, game machines and a computer AND a stereo receiver in the middle. This is my concept:








My idea is to make this out of oak plywood ( a 4' x 8' sheet will overdo it) with the doors being able to fold out then slide inside the piece.
I think they call this "flipper doors".
I want the top to have a protruding bull-nose all around.
In the bottom I want to have 3 140 mm brushless fans, with a temperature regulator (a few dollars worth of transistors), and a LED strip light to see at night.
As for my wood working skills (which is the only reason I signed up for this forum), I have helped redo a coffee table, and rebuilt part of our house where the termites attacked. as for learning capabilities, I usualy use wikipedia, google, and common sense as my sources of intel.

Back to the point, I have read about some of the things I will have to do and some others I will have to use. for instance, I know that to put in the bull-nose on my top board, I will have to use a router, or use a hole saw to make a port to run cables through. I mainly need to know some hard to find ancient wisdom on how to execute the actual build, and other things like where to get the hinges for the doors, and many other random questions. Thanks in advance.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Another name for the style of hinge you want to use is a concealed door hinge.

Lee Valley is a good place to look for hardware.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=48629&cat=3,41305,55408&ap=1

Give some thought on how to get wires between the TV and the components. Also the venting. The fans will not help if air is not able to be pulled into the cabinet.

Offset panels at the back can provide a channel for wires and for air.

Think about the load on the top. Depending on the depth of the stand you may want some bracing to prevent sagging over time.

The oak plywood at the big box stores is not always the best. The oak veneer is very thin, so be careful about sanding, too easy to sand through the veneer.

Give some thought to the joint between top and sides, and how to hide the lamination edge.

I would make the doors out of solid wood.

Be careful when you need to cut the plywood. Very easy to get tearout which will look bad, and make the cut surface not smooth. This will be a problem if you are intending to stain.

Do a search on the site for the many threads where tearout of plywood is mentioned.
This is just one of the recent threads.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/cross-vs-rip-circular-saw-40267/

Will you be using fasteners for the top, bottom and sides or glue?
Lee Valley should have whatever fasteners you need.
If you can use quick connect fasteners, these are very strong.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=45375&cat=3,41306

If you use glue, you need clamps and need to use the blue painters tape at the joints to prevent the excess glue from spreading on the wood, especially if you intend to stain. If the glue seals the pores it will not stain the same as the bare wood.

Note the reference to blue painters tape, more expensive but worthwhile. Not the normal masking tape which can pull off pieces of the veneer when being removed, especially if the normal masking tape had been under a clamp.


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

Thanks for the tip about the hinges. As for wire routing, I thought about drilling a large hole in the sides with a hole saw and then buy some of those grommets off ebay. As for ventilation, I was inspired by an air hockey table in how it distributes the air through tiny holes. I was thinking about using pine pegboard with the fans beneath attached to another board, so the air would come up through the bottom, go either up through the pegboard into equipment vents ( the whole idea here) or spread away from the fan and through pegholes further away from the fan. Remember, the brushless PC fans aren't that expensive, so I could invest in 3 250 mm case fans. As for joints, I was thinking elbow brackets. I'm kinda weary of glue. Thanks for the intel, though.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I would recommend Lee Valley over eBay for most things.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?cat=3,43597&p=50658

Air hockey uses high pressure air. The PC fans are high flow, low pressure.

Elbow brackets may work, but will look ugly. Also would need to consider clearance for the concealed hinges. These hinges would not normally be used with such brackets.

As long as I do not need to disassemble, I prefer to use glue on a project. Modern glues are stronger than the wood when used in tight fitting joints.

Yellow glue, e.g., Titebond I, II or III is water based. Easy clean up - until it sets. Time to set varies between the brands.

I forgot to mention that you may need a middle support so that the top does not sag preventing the doors from closing.


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

Well, the hockey table has an average computer fan on the bottom, just lower pitched blades... high pressure PC fans are easy to find, some of them with Maglev bearings. One more thing, the pine pegboard I mentioned has holes many orders of magnitude bigger than the holes in the painted and drilled fiberboard in a hockey table. The higher pressures may not be required...
My idea is to keep ambient temps around the equipment down by having the air ooze from all around the bottom of it. For example, an XBOX 360, no matter if it is standing or laying down, it will always have one of it's intake vents covered, and this helps lead to an overheat. As for the glue, you might be right. I have seen RC planes crash where the wood was demolished, but the glue and the motor was intact. As for top support, I don't know. A 42" TV only weigh 45 pounds, tops, and I can only afford a 32". As for lee valley, never heard of it. Do they take Paypal? Also, saw the tracks I want in the link you posted. Thanks.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Lee Valley is a very good mail order (in this country) supplier of woodworking, hardware, gardening supplies and gifts.

Like most mail order retailers, they take credit cards.

After you cut your top, do an experiment. Support the piece at the ends and then place a weight in the middle equivalent to your expected TV plus a few pounds. It is amazing how any flat surface attracts objects to be placed on it. 

You should see some sag. This is normal. You need to either include for the sag in the gap between the top and doors or you need a middle support. As an engineer and experienced woodworker, I would choose the support option.

The sag may increase over time. This is also normal.

The greater the number of plies (layers) in the plywood, the stronger and less sag. You do not get to select the number of plies. 

You could look for cabinet grade plywood. This will have more layers. It will also be more expensive.

If I were building a TV stand, I would glue up solid 4/4 or 6/4 stock for the top and make solid frame for the back and sides with plywood panels. A 6/4 stock top may be able to make the span without support, but I like to overdesign, so I would still include a middle support.


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

I don't have any money (or parts) as of the moment, So I cannot test how strong it is. But I am thinking of a 2" x 4" "T" piece that would start at the front, with 2 x 4s holding up the front, placed next to the flipper door tracks (with enough clearance for door operation), and another vertical 2 x 4 at the back. And about the back. I want to put a few outlets, and the controller board for the fans, on a piece of plywood in the back, kinda like building a Sheetrock wall. Another thing is an easy to reach service disconnect for either working on something inside, or killing it during a lightning storm (circuit breakers aren't meant for this purpose, they will begin to kick in normal operation due to wear to the bimetal strip inside). It is about time I mention my specs for it's size. It is to be 40" wide (about as wide as an average 42" tv), 18" tall, and 24 inches deep. The interior size is important, too. I want it to be 20" deep, and at least 13- 14" tall inside. As for over designing (or overbuilding) I totaly agree, but my wallet doesn't:thumbdown:. How do you think A diesel engine takes air, compress it to~1000 psi, inject diesel at 30,000 psi eek, the diesel burning pushes pressures to 10,000 psi, and expect the engine to not go like a frag grenade? A buntch of overbuilding engeneers. For example (off subject at hand, I know) a Cummins 4BT has 200 HP, but it weighs 700 pounds, all unrequired steel.
Just food for thought...


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

just had a thought from browsing the internet... if I use plywood to make the top and sides, what will I use to cover the edge of the plywood (I heard this edge looks awful if you try to finish it)?


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

You can use an iron on edge banding to cover the layers of the plywood or solid wood strips glued and clamped or glued and nailed to the edges.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I would build something along the lines of the picture below. It will need to have the pockets for the doors to slide into so you can have shelving. I would suggest the center divider as others have suggested but you can leave a space between it and the back to pass wires from one side to the other or drill a hole through it. Of course the picture doesn't have doors but I left them off so you could see the inside.


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

Hey, that's exactly it... execpt no shelves and no board in center.
:yes::yes::yes::yes:


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

Big Dave said:


> You can use an iron on edge banding to cover the layers of the plywood or solid wood strips glued and clamped or glued and nailed to the edges.


 I like the idea of using a piece of solid wood, but... how would I go about doing this?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Maybe a better approach to giving suggestions would be to find out some details. 

What do you have for a place to work?
What tools do you have (to include power hand tools, hand tools, stationary machinery...like table saw, air compressor, air fasteners, etc.)

Once we establish what you have, and your skill set, we can discuss the best way to fabricate the cabinet, and what to use.










 





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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> Maybe a better approach to giving suggestions would be to find out some details.
> 
> What do you have for a place to work?
> What tools do you have (to include power hand tools, hand tools, stationary machinery...like table saw, air compressor, air fasteners, etc.)
> ...


 Well, I have access to a shop, but it is currently occupied with a car. Small tools, I have hand saws, screwdrivers, pliers, most of your basic hand tools, sanders (mouse, palm, and belt) jigsaw, circular saw, reciprocating saw (I call it a sawzall, since it can cut everything you throw at it), vice, most tools a car mechanic would have, and some others. As for big tools, table saw, router with table, mitre saw (all the above need or may require repair in order to function), air compressor with a decent assortment of air tools, and the most important(at least for me) my hands and mind. In short, I can get my hands on most woodworking tools in existence without much effort.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

If you have limited space, and minimal tool usage, you could use ¾" plywood, and cut panels for the basic box. Basically you will have two ends, and a floor. If you prefer not to do any machining for the joinery of connecting the floor to the ends, you could use corner braces like this. These would be used under the floor, and attaching the floor to the ends. This would be the toekick area. A separate toekick piece would cover the front. This would be a better solution than just a butt joint. They will help keep the cabinet from racking.

Ideally, the ends should be dadoed to accept the floor. A front and rear top rail (about 2" wide) connecting the top front of the ends and the top backs of the ends. These two rails are used to screw the top down from underneath. The top can be plywood with a solid wood edge that you can bullnose like you want.

You want "flipper doors" which are also called "pocket doors". The hardware to do this attaches to the sides of the cabinet. Doors will be inset. With adding a face frame, the hardware will have to be spaced out to coincide with the door to clear the face frame. So, your interior measurement should account for the space needed for both sets of door hardware. The depth of the cabinet, and the length of the hardware determines how much of the door will push into the cabinet. The length of the hardware has to be about 3" longer than the door is wide. If you don't have the appropriate depth, some of the door will stick out.

As for a back in the cabinet, once the floor is attached to the ends, and the two top rails are installed, a rabbeting router bit can be run around the rear edge to allow the back (¼" plywood) to be installed. I would recommend a center post in the front to support the center of the top. If the top rail of the face frame is 2"-3", and glued to the connecting rail that spans to the ends, that may afford enough rigidity to keep the top from sagging.

I am suggesting to do the necessary machining to provide good joinery.











 







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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

I will be able to have unlimited acess to the shop in a few month (when the car is finished. me and my brother were rebuilding a 1986 chevy camaro from the ground up. It's his wife's car.), so tools and workspace will be almost unlimited.

As for those bigger tools, the table saw needs a belt, the router, as far as I know, will last through a few more projects before dying. And the mitre saw, it needs the blade mount/gear-bearing assembly ($10). 

As for actual build, I want the top to be resting on the side pieces, possibly glued on. My dad told me it is common knowledge that screws and plywood are not friends (wood will split). Another poster said brackets will mechanically interfere with the flipper door operation, so brackets are out of the question. Maybe a toungue and groove joint will hold the cabinet's weight (in case I pick it up by the top with a full load). The tongue and groove and glue combination is strong, but I've heard all glue furniture is bad quality, and may fall apart. What other joint options do I have? As for the doors, good advise. 

About the door sticking out... I don't care as long as long as I don't have one of those charlie brown moments where he is about to kick a football when it gets moved and he does a ground loop.:turned:


As for the back, I wanted a sort of false wall effect there, the space between them for wires, outlet boxes, and a circuit board for the fans. I will post to-scale pics of interior view and cross sections of what I am talking about. 

Thanks


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

NTkiller said:


> As for those bigger tools, the table saw needs a belt, the router, as far as I know, will last through a few more projects before dying. And the mitre saw, it needs the blade mount/gear-bearing assembly ($10).


It sounds like you will have access to the equipment needed.



NTkiller said:


> As for actual build, I want the top to be resting on the side pieces, possibly glued on.


It's not necessary to glue down the top. If it ever needs removal or replacement, it would be difficult. The top would be resting on the ends...and the two cross rails, and screwed to the two rails. It doesn't need to be screwed to the ends.



NTkiller said:


> My dad told me it is common knowledge that screws and plywood are not friends (wood will split).


I'm sure your dad is a knowledgeable man. I sure hope he didn't give you the stork explanation.:laughing: Plywood holds screws just fine under most circumstances, if the proper fastener is used and installed correctly.



NTkiller said:


> Another poster said brackets will mechanically interfere with the flipper door operation, so brackets are out of the question.


You might want to re-read post #15 slowly to understand why brackets were suggested, and exactly where they would go. If used they will be UNDER THE FLOOR, and NOT in the way of the doors, or the door hardware.



NTkiller said:


> Maybe a toungue and groove joint will hold the cabinet's weight (in case I pick it up by the top with a full load). The tongue and groove and glue combination is strong, but I've heard all glue furniture is bad quality, and may fall apart. What other joint options do I have? As for the doors, good advise.


It's not necessary to make the fabrication more involved than need be. You have had some erroneous information about glue and furniture. I don't know about others, but I wouldn't build a cabinet without glue. 



NTkiller said:


> As for the back, I wanted a sort of false wall effect there, the space between them for wires, outlet boxes, and a circuit board for the fans. I will post to-scale pics of interior view and cross sections of what I am talking about.
> Thanks


You could leave out the back, but a well fitted back squares a cabinet and helps to minimize any racking problem. There are ways to feed wires with a back in place.










 







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## oldmacnut (Dec 27, 2010)

If I may...

I suggest building a prototype out of cheaper material first, I still make prototypes, heck look at my dresser build, that prototype is getting painted for use, came out better than I ever thought.

Anyway, you can spend 30.00 on a sheet of "cabinet grade" plywood from the Borg (big orange retail giant) and use every inch of that sheet to make a prototype TV stand. That way you will only spend 30.00 on a sheet of material and make your mistakes vs a 50.00+ sheet of oak. Make your mistakes, make your changes halfway through the build, work the bugs and get use to/try different joinery options, dados on one side, biscuits on another, when you're done...then make your final piece. Donate the prototype, give it away, or repurpose it as a cabinet or base in your shop.

Sounds like a waste of material, but it really isn't. And I myself still do things this way. Sometimes my prototype ends up being the final piece, sometimes I scratch my head wondering what I was thinking and scrap the whole project, its how I learn, may work for others.

And budget wise, my shop budget is so tight, well I have practicaly no budget, but being material resourceful helps.

Sent from my Xoom using Woodworking Talk


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

Well, I did what I said would do... upload pictures of cross sections of my design.


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## NTkiller (Jul 6, 2012)

I was thinking about using these to hold the top on... what do you think? and what are the name of the things?


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## ddreese (Aug 16, 2012)

NTkiller said:


> Thanks for the tip about the hinges. As for wire routing, I thought about drilling a large hole in the sides with a hole saw and then buy some of those grommets off ebay. As for ventilation, I was inspired by an air hockey table in how it distributes the air through tiny holes. I was thinking about using pine pegboard with the fans beneath attached to another board, so the air would come up through the bottom, go either up through the pegboard into equipment vents ( the whole idea here) or spread away from the fan and through pegholes further away from the fan. Remember, the brushless PC fans aren't that expensive, so I could invest in 3 250 mm case fans. As for joints, I was thinking elbow brackets. I'm kinda weary of glue. Thanks for the intel, though.


 I would look at a Kreg Pocket Hole jig instead fo elbow brackets. They are a lot stronger and I have had no problem with them in plywood.


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