# Table Top Cracking. Help!



## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

I am a total wood working noob and made a nice big kitchen table using Douglas Fir 2x6's (I know...) beveled edges, not finished, from Lowes. I used wood filler to fill the cracks on top, stained it, clearcoated, and did literally nothing to the bottom of the wood at all. It stayed smooth as glass for a month, now all the seams are cracked and wood filler is pretty useless and falling out. I know, I suck, I need a master's advice. 

a. How do I fix this? Expoxy, bondo?
b. How should I go about making a table in the future with zero cracks, smooth as glass?

I am at your mercy.

:blink:


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Bob , 
is that one wide slab of timber , 
or is it two slabs glued together ?

Can you give us two more photos , of the end grain , one from each end


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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

Manuka Jock said:


> Bob ,
> is that one wide slab of timber ,
> or is it two slabs glued together ?
> 
> Can you give us two more photos , of the end grain , one from each end


It is (4) 2X6's glued together not jointed, just straight off the rack at Lowes. I know, I know, rookie mistakes all the way around. I want to try and fix this if possible. Also any advice for future tabletop making is appreciated! Thanks!


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Cut them apart on a ripping saw , run them across a jointer and reglue them . 
Maybe you could do the other joins too , just to be sure .

And for future work , run the boards across a jointer ..... :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*one way to fix it is ...*

Take a straight edge and a circular saw and cut exactly down the gap. 
Then mate them together to see how they fit. If the gap is closed, reglue and clamp. If not, recut the gap until there is a perfect fit.
As long as the saw blade goes in a straight line and is square to the surfaces you won't need a jointer.

Always apply a finish to both sides of the wood to prevent uneven shrinkage and expansion.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

We have an introduction section where you can say a few words about yourself. If you fill out your profile in your "User Control Panel", you can list any hobbies, experience or other facts. You can also list your general geographical location which would be a help in answering some questions. In doing that your location will show under your username when you post. 

You can flip the top upside down and clamp a straightedge to the top so a circular saw blade will cut the boards apart. You may have to make a pass on each board that's mated to get back to clean wood.

Or, you could rip them apart on a table saw, good side up, using the same methods. When the edges are cut, they should be dry fitted together to see how they mate. If they fit with no gaps and it will only take minimal clamping pressure to bring them together, add glue and clamp them together. You might want to only glue one joint at a time. That would make for an easier setup.












 








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## kwolfe (Jan 9, 2014)

I agree with cutting it down the seems. Not sure what tools you have but a circular saw would work. It would get a better blade for it though. Rip it lengthwise down the glue joint using a fence guide. If the edges are not smooth and don't mate well, then take maybe 1/4 off each side until they do. Then reglue and clamp together. 

Also, before you do anything, you could try using a much of pocket hole screws underneath to see if you can pull the gap closed. Not the best solution but not sure how involved you want to get.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Always apply a finish to both sides of the wood to prevent uneven shrinkage and expansion.


Make sure to follow this advice. Douglas fir moves a lot with changing humidity. If you only seal the top it will tend to curl and break out your wood filler.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Turn the table over and take some pictures of the support system. It looks like you have some cross grain construction that is causing the problem.


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

We need to see what's under the top. Your problem may be due more to how you attached the top to the frame than anything else.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

It could be that the joined edges were not mated well, and came apart.








 







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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

Looks like shrinkage, most of the Home Center lumber is pretty wet.

As others have stated, the boards need to be re-cut, fit, then glued back together. Then make sure all sides are finished.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> It could be that the joined edges were not mated well, and came apart.


Not mated well it is I reckon 


> beveled edges, not finished, from Lowes
> 
> It is (4) 2X6's glued together not jointed, just straight off the rack at Lowes


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Manuka Jock said:


> Not mated well it is I reckon


Rather than blaming some infrastructure holding the top to the frame. :yes:








 








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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

*Ahhhh!*

Thanks for all the advice fellas. Obviously this is a HUGE learning opportunity for me. I literally did nothing to the bottom as far as stain or anything, see the pictures. I also screwed it on form the top using a countersink bit and filled the holes so it'd be a pain to unscrew it all. Would staining the bottom and using black epoxy work to if unscrewing is not an option? 

And for the next one (a brand new build), I should used jointed wood, glue -up and clamp it up AND THEN mount it correct? Is the glue and clamps all I would need to keep it together before mounting? Should I use a nail gun or something to hold it together too? Thanks for all the help, I am learning a lot from you guys.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The would for the top should have been run across a jointer but you also need to dry fit them to the point where you couldn't slide a sheet of paper through. Pine is a bit resistant to being glued. It would be helpful if you would run a spline in the wood to help the joints. If not a spline you might use dowels or biscuits to help the joint. Then use glue and clamps.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Man , you could construct a house on that floor :laughing:

Bob , check these out 
How to build a table


Fix that table as best you can and use it for a workbench , it looks to be well made and sturdy enough for one .

cheers


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Rather than blaming some infrastructure holding the top to the frame. :yes:


 Not that infrastructure , that's for sure :thumbsup:


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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

Yeah, I suck, I know, I could use it for a nuclear bomb bunker.


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Suck ? 

Bob ,
Don't be so hard on yourself .
First time out you built a good strong table .
A bit of a glitch with the top that is easily fixed .
Fix it , and then build another one on your new work bench :yes:

But No NailGun , not for fine furniture


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Another option if you want to try a complicated solution... Leave the boards attached, and use a straight guide and a circular saw to enlarge the gaps. Bring them out to somewhere around 2-3 inches, cut square and even on both sides. Then fill the space with well dried contrasting wood. A circular saw with a high-end blade can leave you with a joint-ready finish, and with enough care you could probably get a filling wood that would look pretty nice. You'd want to sand the entire top down when you were done to get it all level, and maybe do a clear finish.

It would be quite a lot of work, and I wouldn't want to do it, but I suspect it could be made to look fantastic in the end if you pulled it off.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Kiln-dried conifer lumber of any species is rarely less than 24% Moisture Content which will feel wet and cold to the back of your hand. Conifer. Not hardwood. Hardwood values don't help here. There's a reasonable assumption that the wood will be used in service where MC isn't an issue. Airdried, outdoors, under cover (and not cooked in a shed), the equilibrium MC should settle down to 12 - 14% after a year, stacked and stickered. You can expect movement during that drying process.
Then, indoors, the MC can drop again to as low as 4-6% with even more movement.
Cut the table top apart and clean off the edges, down to bare wood. Those rounded/upset corners don't look so great, even filled. Since you didn't finish the undersides, all is not lost. Give it a year and rebuild.
Then again, you could leave 1/4" crumb gaps. Got any dogs?


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Every one of the boards that go across the grain of your top is creating a cross grain joint. Cross grain joints must be constructed in a manner that allow the long grain boards to freely expand and contract as those boards emit or absorb moisture. 

Being that you used construction lumber, it was not thoroughly dried before you used it. Therefore those long boards continued to dry and shrink causing the glue joints to fail.

One fix you could do is to first disassemble the top from the support structure. Then rip the boards down the seams and joint them straight. Now edge glue the boards ( you may have to insert one thin board to make up the difference lost to sawdust when ripping. Once the top is glued and dry, mount the top using slotted holes in the cross pieces to allow the top to move with changes in relative humidity.

Inspect all your joints to identify any and all cross grain joints. Develop a scheme to allow cross grain movement and convert those joints.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the best of intentions here...*

You have a stout frame, that's good. You have nice heavy planks, that's also good. Now we have a problem. The planks should be glued together as one part and attached to the frame, the other part, so the wood can expand or in this case shrink as it dries out. That didn't happen.

So, to fix the problem correctly, you should separate the planks from the frame, glue them together as one assembly, and then attach that to the frame. Too much work? Than you will have to live with the gaps OR saw down each one cleaning it up and insert another thin strip of wood. This can be a slip fit, but by taking the rounded edges off from the lumber mill, it may look better. :blink: It will still shrink or expand as the humidity changes in the environment however.

Table tops should be rigidly attached only in the center of thew width, not along the entire width. Elongated holes out from the center allow the top to expand or contract without splitting or leaving gaps.

Live and learn as they say, especially in woodworking. :laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Maybe we should repeat the fix a few more times.








 








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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

so when you do a glue-up and clamp, do they stay together w/just glue?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*sure, how many?*



cabinetman said:


> Maybe we should repeat the fix a few more times.


You're next. :yes:



bottlenosebob said:


> so when you do a glue-up and clamp, do they stay together w/just glue?



A "proper" glue joint is as strong as the parent wood. Proper meaning, straight, flat and square against straight, flat and square with an even application of glue so it squeezes out just a bit, all along and not over clamped causing a "dry" glue joint where most of the glue is squeezed out.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

bottlenosebob said:


> so when you do a glue-up and clamp, do they stay together w/just glue?


If the edges are mated well they do.









 







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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

All great info for a noob like me, thanks all of you. Last question: If I do (which kind of want to) inlay a 1.5 inch piece of trim after cutting our the crack and then some with a circular saw, shoudl I just glue it in and calmp it, or do that AND nail it?:wacko:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

bottlenosebob said:


> All great info for a noob like me, thanks all of you. Last question: If I do (which kind of want to) inlay a 1.5 inch piece of trim after cutting our the crack and then some with a circular saw, shoudl I just glue it in and calmp it, or do that AND nail it?:wacko:


After you have dressed both edges, and want to add a trim piece (like a filler), dress the edges of that piece so they mate with the boards (make it the same thickness as the top), and glue and clamp it to one of the boards. Your next glue up sequence will be the other board(s).








 








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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*no nails please*

Are you going to just create a 1 1/2" gap and the insert a new piece without removing the top and separating the planks? How will the clamps be able to move the planks if they are still screwed down? This is a precision operation, not only to get a perfectly parallel slot, but to get a perfectly fitting insert. It may be above your pay grade, I donno? 

You would have to see how much the clamps can move each plank, in my opinion. Sounds like you will need a tablesaw to make the inserts also. 

A router would be a better solution with a straight edge guide. That would leave a constant dimension gap, fitting whatever diameter bit you used. 

Really, the best "fix" is to take the top off, straighten the edges and reglue them.... I know it's been said before...:yes:


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

bottlenosebob said:


> All great info for a noob like me, thanks all of you. Last question: If I do (which kind of want to) inlay a 1.5 inch piece of trim after cutting our the crack and then some with a circular saw, shoudl I just glue it in and calmp it, or do that AND nail it?:wacko:


 No More Nails :hammer: :no:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Manuka Jock said:


> No More Nails :hammer: :no:


+1. :yes:

















 








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## usmarine1979 (Mar 8, 2014)

This is an easy fix.

Cut down the seam, really narrow. Hammer some shims down in the gap created, slather some glue (I like elmer's) all over the cracks, nail down the edges with a 16d ring shank, then re-stain and you're golden. 














Not really, although I think that the inlay option would be an awesome touch, and would make a mistake into a conversation piece. I'm with whoever said a router might be the better option, but without removing the top for the clamping, I honestly don't know how you'd do it. 

Any way you go, I wish you the best of luck, and all in all, a nicely and solid built first project!


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

IMO, there is no way to fix this properly in place. If you want to preserve what you have, just run some brown caulk in the crack. Keep the tube for the other cracks that are soon to show up. Even splicing new wood into a machined gap will soon have issues as the Douglas for continues to shrink.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*right you are!*

The OP didn't want to remove the top...too much work, if I recall, so other "solutions" were proposed, none of which would stop the issue only cover it up cosmetically or clean it up.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I understood the OP to say he wanted a 'fix', not saying he wouldn't remove the top. In order to 'fix', IMO, the top should be removed and the boards dressed for gluing and clamping.








 








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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*OP didn't want to remove it.....*



bottlenosebob;582888..... [B said:


> I also screwed it on from the top using a countersink bit and filled the holes so it'd be a pain to unscrew it all[/B].......


I suppose you could say he didn't use those "exact" word, but you get his drift....just sayin' PITA, maybe? :blink:


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## Noek (Jan 26, 2013)

Not sure if you have a jointer or not for the edges, should you decide to remove the top and rip each piece. 

If not, and assuming you have a table saw, you can buy a glue line rip blade from Freud. 

Much cheaper than a jointer and makes a pretty clean edge for gluing. You will need one straight edge, so you can make a straight line rip jig, I think there is a link floating around here somewhere.


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## RNK124 (Mar 5, 2014)

Hey, You Don't suck, that is some nice construction. Looks very sturdy. I agree with everyone else on cutting it apart and regluing it back together. also as far as wood filler is concerned, I am not a big fan of it for large holes/cracks. I would use epoxy to fill also mix in some saw dust then sand and put your finish on. Epoxy holds a lot better than wood filer. You can also use wood glue and saw dust to make filler. If it is wet wood let it dry out before applying any finish. Good Luck and post some Pics when you complete it.


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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

I am going with the general consensus-rip it apart, run the boards through a jointer (which a buddy has), and do it right! I'll post pics when she's done, thanks for all the help fellas!! :thumbsup:


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Just saying, but if it was me, based on how you mounted the top, I would clean up the joints, round the edges on each board and leave the boards with a slight gap in-between them.


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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

She's glued up and clamped up, I thought I'd do it right, thanks guys, pics to follow when she's done


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## Brian L (Mar 7, 2014)

Done fellas, thanks for the input and help:


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## Manuka Jock (Jun 27, 2011)

Well done Bob :thumbsup:


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