# Dust Collection Tips



## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

I am planning a dust collection system for a new house that my wife and I are buying. I am considering a 2HP 1400CFM Grizzly dust collector with a cartridge filter. Are the cartridge filters worth the cost? What are the benefits?

Also, I'd love to hear some cost cutting tips on plumbing an entire shop. Is PVC the cheapest way to go? Any ideas are welcome.


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## user4178 (Apr 18, 2008)

I use to have a Grizzly 2 hp collector, but with cloth bags. It was a good machine. The advantages to a cartridge filter are, they have more filtering surface then a cloth bag, and I think they filter finer dust, plus the lower bag is plastic for easy disposal of dust. I have heard that the cartridge filters plug up faster when sanding then cloth bags do, weather thats true or not, I don't know, I've allways had cloth bags. PVC ducting is probably as cheap as you can go and aparently works pretty good, but there are a couple things I don't like about it, the static that builds up can give you a jolt, and dust clings to the outside of the pipe. Not really big issues, I think alot of people use it and are happy with it.


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## mmtools (Aug 21, 2008)

In my experience, the cartridge filters are very effective at controlling dust down to 2 microns. the surface area is so much greater, they do not clog. As far as saw dust clinging to the outside of PVC, the easiest way to prevent static buildup is to loosely wrap the outside of the pipe with bare copper ground wire and attach at both ends of system to ground it.


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## Ed'sGarage (Aug 16, 2007)

*dust collection tips*

I have a Penn States Cyclone, about 2 Hp, I think, with 1 micron filters and 6" aluminum ductwork. I enjoyed working with them and their system is great. The 1 micron catridge filters allow no dust in my shop while working. The ductwork went together easily; although, on many branches, I needed another set of hands. I caulked all connections. It works great and I'm happy with it. I did have to run a 220 line from my panel, but that's not a biggy, just did the same again for my new Griz 1023 SWL TS.
Just my .02


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## ramon68 (Jul 20, 2007)

I got a Jet DC 1100 on sale 2 years ago and replaced the bags with a Wynn cartridge filter and plastic lower bag for cheap money. Check wynnenv.com for sub micron cartridge filters.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

My input here should be taken with a grain of salt. I am a shop plumbed wet / dry vac system user, I don't have much experience with a dedicated dust collector. HOWEVER, I have been reading nearly every post on the subject I have seen. What follows is basically how I interperet, right or wrong, what I have been reading... I sincerely hope this helps...

Remember, with MOST but not all manufacturers, ratings are almost always inflated. So that 2HP might not actually be 2HP, and the 1400CFM might actually be something along the lines of 1400CFM no load, meaning no plumbing, no bag, no nothing to restrict flow...

Cartridge filters are known to actually reduce filtration size (meaning filter smaller particles out), the Wynn paper carts are rated to filter .5 microns (there is a decimal point there BTW...), and even with the lower filtration, are rumored at least to improve air flow.

You will want to plumb your shop with something affordable it sounds like. So yes, PVC is a good, cheap way to go. But remember, PVC builds up static something fierce. You will need to wrap your pipe with bare copper, and ground the ends to insure dissipation of the static buildup in the pipe. 

On a personal experience note, I messed up installing my Shop Vac sawdust collection system. Make sure your Y fittings are pointed the right way! I installed about half of them the wrong direction, and that REALLY screws up your system's ability to pull efficiently... DO NOT GLUE your pipe / fittings together. IF you want a more secure fit than slip fit can provide, drill a hole for, and install a set screw in place to lock it together. Make sure you make some sort of registration mark on the pipe and fitting to correspond so you can line the holes up when you dissassemble / reassemble the section when you inevitably clog it up and have to clear it out manually...

The Grizzly DC has a good following / reputation. An item to consider though is the Central Machinery DC from harbor freight. Don't bother getting the one with the lower filtration bag, you should replace that with a cartridge anyway... Likewise, if you get the Grizzly, don't get the grizz cartridge, go for the Wynn. I would personally go with the washable filter, but that is my preference...

Also, don't expect ANY dust collection system capable of less than 2500CFM to provide a TRULY dust free environment. ANY system is far better than none, but for a truly clean air environment you will need more CFM, AND an air cleaner setup...

Best of luck with your setup! I hope this helps you somewhat. Dust collection can be some confusing business.


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

Hey Ken:

I have just recently installed and begun using the Grizzly G0440 2hp d/c. http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/2-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/G0440 It is performing exceptionally well, I think...but the above post is also correct to some degree---there is always dust flying, chips flying off the top of the table saw blade, miter saw is hard to collect from, etc. There's no getting around it, I think, in the home shop environment.

I ran my entire setup in 4" PVC. This is where I take a different turn than most others. There seems to be an undying fear of ESD-electro-static discharge-among those who buy and use home dust collector systems. First and foremost, the fear of d/c systems that are not grounded generating a spark and causing a catastrophic fire are completely unfounded. Of those woodworkers whose shop has burned to the ground by a fire started in the dust collector, I think its much more likely that a cigarette got sucked into the collector. The National Fire Incident Reporting system isn't aware of it as fire cause and origin factor, and _every _fire department in the country uses the NFIRS system.

Now, that being said, don't let me talk you out of anything that your conscience and best practice dictate you should do. I will agree that there is some static that builds up on the outside of my vinyl flexible hoses and on the PVC. It's the soft, fuzzy sort of static. I've never been shocked, bit, jolted, or otherwise knocked on my can by ESD from my PVC d/c plennum. Period. I will get around to grounding mine externally, for I agree it is _best practice._

Also, along the lines of PVC, it is easy to use, and while certainly less expensive than other methods, do expect to pay several hundred dollars for a complete system of fittings, blast gates, etc. I disagree with the slip-fit/set-screw comment. Go the extra mile and cement all the PVC fittings just like you were plumbing. You won't regret this decision. Measure carefully and dry fit first, then registration marks in pencil, pull it all down and start cementing in sections. I started buying plastic blast gates, but when I saw how cheap and cheesey they were, I switched to the steel and aluminum ones. I tried a couple of both to see which ones perform better...the jury is still out on that topic. 

My PVC is hung from pieces of 2x4 screwed to ceiling joists, each with a convex cut in them to receive the O.D. of the PVC. I then screwed perforated tin strap to each block and suspended the PVC. The system works great. I terminated the PVC to the d/c inlet with a neoprene sewer boot and two hose clamps. Voila! Done!

I have several pictures on my "New Workshop Begins" thread, and they may be of help to you. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3499&highlight=workshop+begins&page=7

Sorry so lengthy, but I hope this information helps you make a better decision. Best of luck, and please PM me if you have any questions or want to chat further on the topic. I'm more than open to you paying a visit if you want to see for yourself how things look...if you're near Central Illinois, that is.

regards,
smitty


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## tooltime47 (Oct 10, 2008)

Ken Johnson said:


> I am planning a dust collection system for a new house that my wife and I are buying. I am considering a 2HP 1400CFM Grizzly dust collector with a cartridge filter. Are the cartridge filters worth the cost? What are the benefits?
> 
> Also, I'd love to hear some cost cutting tips on plumbing an entire shop. Is PVC the cheapest way to go? Any ideas are welcome.


I'm sold on cartridge filters. They will keep your shop a lot cleaner. They are much more efficient than a bag. Cyclone collectors seperate a majority of the of the sawdust before it gets to the filter so if your budget allows, that is a good way to go. 
As already mentioned, Wynns environmental is a good source for filters http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm
I went with 6 inch pvc plumbing as it was cheaper than metal.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Sorry I'm late to this thread. I've had a Griz 1029 2hp DC for 5-6 years and it's been a solid performer. I initially upgraded the 30 mic stock bags to the felt 2 mic bags, and both airflow and filtration improved. Then I stumbled into a great deal on a 1 mic JDS cannister and added that with a plastic bottom bag...both airflow and filtration improved again, plus the lower bag is easier to empty. The cannister needs to be attended to more often than the bags or you risk blowing the cannister off when it clogs severely as it's the only outlet for the air, but it's just a matter of hitting the flapper or the side of the cannister now and then. The cannister has been a good upgrade for the $100 I paid. :thumbsup:


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

Hey, Ken, if I can add my two cents - I agree with Smitty, specifically regarding everyone's fear of static electricity. I too, think much of the fear is blown out of proportion. I've personally had un-grounded PVC piping on my 1200 CFM Grizzly DC for around six years and ocassionally get a small snap in the winter. The humidity is usually high enough in NE Oklahoma that I never have a static problem in the summer. And when I do get a little snap, it's usually only when I'm removing the plastic lid on the trash can cyclone separator to empty while using the planar. Maybe, I'm used to it now because I know it may be coming, but it never bothers me any more. And, it usually only occurs when I'm using the planar, maybe because it generates more static generating dust than all the other machines.

Just my opinion. Thanks,


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## Roy Harding (Jun 8, 2008)

Geoguy said:


> Hey, Ken, if I can add my two cents - I agree with Smitty, specifically regarding everyone's fear of static electricity. I too, think much of the fear is blown out of proportion. I've personally had un-grounded PVC piping on my 1200 CFM Grizzly DC for around six years and ocassionally get a small snap in the winter. The humidity is usually high enough in NE Oklahoma that I never have a static problem in the summer. And when I do get a little snap, it's usually only when I'm removing the plastic lid on the trash can cyclone separator to empty while using the planar. Maybe, I'm used to it now because I know it may be coming, but it never bothers me any more. And, it usually only occurs when I'm using the planar, maybe because it generates more static generating dust than all the other machines.
> 
> Just my opinion. Thanks,


In a similar discussion on another forum, we've come to the conclusion that the static factor is directly related to the humidity of your workplace.

I had a PVC conduit system in my old shop in Edmonton, Alberta (a cold, dry, prairie city), and the shocks generated were, well, shocking (and bloody annoying). I now live in Terrace, BC - a damp, wet, coastal town - and shocks are non-existent.

Given that experience, my advice to folks now is to install the ducting without bothering to ground it. If it becomes a problem, you can always ground it later.

The "dust bin explosion" myth is just that - a myth.


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

Would there be a problem in using 4 inch heating and cooling duct? I know it's metal, but it can still be grounded. That's gotta be cheaper than pvc too... This is only my opinion. What are the issues with this?


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## Roy Harding (Jun 8, 2008)

TheRecklessOne said:


> Would there be a problem in using 4 inch heating and cooling duct? I know it's metal, but it can still be grounded. That's gotta be cheaper than pvc too... This is only my opinion. What are the issues with this?


You don't need to ground this ducting - it's a conductor, PVC is an insulator.

I'm currently using 24 gauge HVAC ducting (6" mains, 4" drops). The problem with HVAC ducting is that it is designed for air flowing the OTHER way - leaving you with joints that don't flow properly - AND, you need to really seal all the seams/joints. I overcame the problem as I have a seriously over powered system (5 HP - 1700 CFM), I have that system because I'm planning on expansion in the near future (a year or two) - at which time I'll install proper ducting. In the meantime - it works fine.

Check the gauge of the ducts at your local Home Depot/Lowes, whatever - I'm betting they are 28 gauge, which may mean problems, depending upon the power of your system.

Dedicated dust collection ducting such as that available through Oneida and a couple of other places (names escape me at the moment) are a much better solution than HVAC stuff - despite I'm using HVAC stuff.

Are you sure that HVAC ducting is cheaper than PVC? That's the assumption I made, too - only to find out later that I was wrong, and spent a couple of hundred bucks more than I needed to.

However it works out for you, best of luck.


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

TheRecklessOne said:


> Would there be a problem in using 4 inch heating and cooling duct? I know it's metal, but it can still be grounded. That's gotta be cheaper than pvc too... This is only my opinion. What are the issues with this?


In my opinion, whatever works is fine. I'm not familar with cost for HVAC duct, but thin-wall DWV (that's the thinner PVC drain piping) is much cheaper than schedule-40. The thin-wall drain pipe works fine for me.


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

the single wall 4 inch metal ducting is about 11 bucks for a 5 foot span, and the fittings (T's, Y's, etc.) are about 3 to 8 bucks a piece depending. I'm not really sure the price of pvc though..:2guns:sweet icon.


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

Roy Harding said:


> The "dust bin explosion" myth is just that - a myth.


*A-men*to that, brother!

smitty


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Roy Harding said:


> The "dust bin explosion" myth is just that - a myth.





smitty1967 said:


> *A-men*to that, brother!
> 
> smitty


Tell that to all the flour plants that have been blown to kingdom come. If the dust is fine enough and in the proper concentration and a spark occurs >>>> BOOM

Wood, flour, corn, it is all explosive if the right conditions happen.

It is unlikely, but it can and has happened. You should always ground your system. Are you going to take your life in your hands for $10 worth of wire?


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## Roy Harding (Jun 8, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Tell that to all the flour plants that have been blown to kingdom come. If the dust is fine enough and in the proper concentration and a spark occurs >>>> BOOM
> 
> Wood, flour, corn, it is all explosive if the right conditions happen.
> 
> It is unlikely, but it can and has happened. You should always ground your system. Are you going to take your life in your hands for $10 worth of wire?


I do believe smitty1967 is a firefighter - he seems to be in agreement with me on this one. I'd be interested in a verified report of a "dust bin explosion" being attributed to non-grounded PVC/plastic piping system in a home hobbyist shop. Industrial shops are a different kettle of fish, and not what we're discussing here.

Read my posts again - I DID recommend grounding the system if needed - albeit for different reasons.

Here's a quote from Bill Pentz's site ( http://billpentz.com/woodworking/Cyclone/ducting.cfm#StaticElectricity ):



> *Static Electricity
> *
> 
> There is always someone who will bring up the concerns about duct static potentially causing an explosion when you use PVC pipe. PVC pipe is an excellent insulator that will build up a static charge, particularly in a dry cold climate. Although that charge can shock you, the experts say it is not ample to cause an explosion in hobbyist based systems. Dr. Rod Cole wrote an excellent article in Fine Woodworking that debunked the static myth with PVC pipe. He also posted that article on a woodworking forum and gave me permission to include a link to his article. If you are still concerned, go read his information. Dr. Rod Cole has some excellent additional information on grounding PVC on his site: Dr. Rod Cole on Grounding PVC (Click here).
> ...


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Tell that to all the flour plants that have been blown to kingdom come.


Roy, you're correct, I am a professional firefighter with almost 21 years on the job. And on this dead horse, I'd like to add this one last kick....

Grain dust explosions definately exist, and are definately real and costly. However, ESD and dust explosions (_not_ grain dust, just regular wood dust) in the home workshop environment are virtually non-existent according to my research of fire cause and origins. 

Apples and oranges, ladies and gentlemen. The shear volume of grain---bushels per hour---that these big places process is unbelievable, and the dust and resultant explosion potential that goes with it is a very real concern. But in my 40 feet of 4" plennum, and my 35-gal collection drum? I don't think so....

Like I've said before, also...I'm most assuredly in agreement with safety and best practice. But I would really like everyone to not be so consumed with this mostly imaginary threat.

regards, 
smitty


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Like I said, it is unlikely to occur, but with the correct conditions it can. I have been in a shop where they let the bags in the DC get to full and you have a "dust explosion" happen. This is where the bag pops off and the very fine dust within get blown into the air in great concentrations. I believe under this particular circumstance if there had been an ignition source there could have possibly been an explosion or fire caused by it. Just because you haven't seen or heard of one doesn't mean it is impossible to happen or hasn't occurred. Like I was saying, why take the chance of not grounding the system or forgoing PVC altogether for the sake of your own safety.


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

Great thread, and interesting. I concure that the canister types are great. I had a bag type and was not happy with it. The cannister I now have, (a delta model) is cleaned simply with a handle that brushes the inside of the canister and I go on with my business. I've used this one now for probably 200 fill ups of the plastic bag below and still works great. I have an oneida too, different part of the shop, and that is connected to metal piping, 6" that has never given me any problem, other than once forgetting to empty the 2 cubic yard bin that I built soon enough so that it started to back up into the line to the filters. Those filters are cloth, but because of the cyclone, they really haven't needed any cleaning in 10 years or more. 
One comment though about blast gates. NONE of them are worth a damn really. The plastic ones are a joke, and the metal ones can clog easily, but are better. A good one has yet to be designed. The problem is that when you close one down, you can pinch a bit of sawdust or chips into the slot at the bottom of the gate. Slowly, you put more and more in that slot and eventually the gate is not closing completely, making your suction worse at the machine you want it at. If someone has a good gate, let me know. 
As to working well with different machines, well, works great with planers, jointers, thickness sanders and the like, but Not as well with many machines. Most table saws are not designed that well for dust collection, unfortunately. Helps with chop saws, but still, not enough. I even built a big collection box behind my radial arm, and it still built up pretty fiercely. 
Certainly does keep the dust down, and makes much easier to clean up, but it will not make many jobs dust free, at least in my experience. 
paul


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## Roy Harding (Jun 8, 2008)

Paul K said:


> ...
> One comment though about blast gates. NONE of them are worth a damn really. The plastic ones are a joke, and the metal ones can clog easily, but are better. A good one has yet to be designed. The problem is that when you close one down, you can pinch a bit of sawdust or chips into the slot at the bottom of the gate. Slowly, you put more and more in that slot and eventually the gate is not closing completely, making your suction worse at the machine you want it at. If someone has a good gate, let me know.
> ...
> paul


I'm partial to the Lee Valley ones - ( http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=51506&cat=1,42401&ap=1 ). They clean themselves as you close them. I've been using them for at least four years now (maybe longer - don't really remember), and I've only had to clean one out once - and that involved some wet pine which I shouldn't have been machining in the first place.

Best of luck to you.


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks Roy. Looks like a good idea for a gate. Much better than the regular one, and for the record, the regular ones are NOT quick to clean as you have to disconnect the hose from it to get in there. This looks like a good improvement. 
Paul


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## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

Does anyone else see a great Mythbusters episode with this PVC debate?


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## reprosser (May 19, 2010)

Mythbusters did an episode on PVC and static electricity, but I think it was focused on electrocution (not a problem) - not explosions.

While anything is possible, the research I have seen indicates that a hobby workshop dust explosion from PVC static electricity is very, very slim. The grounding solutions I have seen for PVC pipe only partially reduce the static, so there is still a slight risk. Unless you go with metal ducts, you won't be 100% safe from static. My ducts are PVC with no grounding.


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## cowboy dan (Apr 11, 2010)

smitty1967 said:


> Roy, you're correct, I am a professional firefighter with almost 21 years on the job. And on this dead horse, I'd like to add this one last kick....
> 
> Grain dust explosions definately exist, and are definately real and costly. However, ESD and dust explosions (_not_ grain dust, just regular wood dust) in the home workshop environment are virtually non-existent according to my research of fire cause and origins.
> 
> ...


you've obviously never seen my shop after a sawdust bomb goes off! i really do need dust collection. i have heard the fears and i can only add that drug dealing and open flames blow more garages apart than sawdust bombs and an open flame.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Tell that to all the flour plants that have been blown to kingdom come. If the dust is fine enough and in the proper concentration and a spark occurs >>>> BOOM
> 
> Wood, flour, corn, it is all explosive if the right conditions happen.
> 
> It is unlikely, but it can and has happened. You should always ground your system. Are you going to take your life in your hands for $10 worth of wire?


Your right but in industrial plant you have the concentration needed not in a home shop.



Roy Harding said:


> I do believe smitty1967 is a firefighter - he seems to be in agreement with me on this one. I'd be interested in a verified report of a "dust bin explosion" being attributed to non-grounded PVC/plastic piping system in a home hobbyist shop. Industrial shops are a different kettle of fish, and not what we're discussing here.
> 
> Read my posts again - I DID recommend grounding the system if needed - albeit for different reasons.
> 
> Here's a quote from Bill Pentz's site ( http://billpentz.com/woodworking/Cyclone/ducting.cfm#StaticElectricity ):


I have been asking for proof of a home shop explosion that was caused by dust but nothing. 

This is another hot topic like Saw Stop that gets crazy sometimes, but it has been around longer.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Ken I have been trying to get to my dust collection system but I've had a few problems. Some not related to my shop but the one that is killing me is getting all the fittings I need. I'm switching to 6" mainline and 4" drops and since I use the thin wall PVC drain pipe those fillings especially in 6" are expensive as hell or hard to find.
I bought a Wynn cartridge filter and hopefully can get the rest of my fittings by Friday.

I found that using 4" through out the system you lose suction, that's why I'm switching. I would think that with the 2hp Grizzly that 6" pipe would work better if your starting from scratch. Just my .02


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