# Any experience/comments for this Craftsman Professional Table saw...



## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

Time for a new saw and hadn't really considered the Craftsman but since I have a credit there I figured I'd check them out. I can find reviews etc on this one 
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922124000P?vName=Tools&keyword=table+saw
however not much info on this one which is the one I'm considering.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922804000P?vName=Tools&keyword=table+saw
Anybody have any experience with it/know who makes it etc? Thanks.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have the 22124 saw first listed*

I would not get the right tilt arbor saw, second listed in your post. The right tilt is a PITA unless you are totally left handed and want to visualize jigs and set-ups in mirror image. I wouldn't own one and if given one, I'd Craigs list it the same day.
I got my saw 22124, on closeout for about $500,00 and it is a great saw, despite 1 3/4 Hp motor limitation. If you can find a similiar deal that would be Good! HOWEVER, and this is important, for $1100.00 you can get a 3HP Grizzly left tilt arbor with all the goodies. I'll check the Grizzly site and post the saw.:yes: bill
BYW, this deal comes with a router extension table worth about $300!





*10"Price:$1,125.00Freight:*$144.00 $0.00Your Price:**$1,125.00 Left-Tilt Cabinet Table Saw * [/COLOR]


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> I would not get the right tilt arbor saw, second listed in your post. The right tilt is a PITA unless you are totally left handed and want to visualize jigs and set-ups in mirror image. I wouldn't own one and if given one, I'd Craigs list it the same day.


 
I see you're a Left Tilt Bigot. Well meet a Right Tilt Bigot!


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

rrich said:


> I see you're a Left Tilt Bigot. Well meet a Right Tilt Bigot!


That makes at least 2 of us that prefer the right! :thumbsup:
I've also been a "Delta bigot" for the last 20 years or so (table saw, planer, jointer, band saw, radial arm saw, dust collectors, drill press, previous miter saw have all been Delta) but figured I'd branch out this time around. One thing I insist on is great customer service and it does appear from the reviews that Grizzly's CS is as good as Delta's has been for me in the past so I'll give their saws a look as well. If anyone has info on the second Craftsman saw I posted above please chime in as I have a tool box to take back to Sears which would give me a few more bucks towards the saw. :smile:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Tilt direction is either a preference or habit*

Which ever way you prefer is totally up to you. If it's what you are used to and comfortable with go for it. There is a ton of discussion on the sites, left vs right and I checked them out:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/LeftTilt_Versus_RightTilt.html
but this is a whole new thread not for discussion here. Here's a link from one of the table saw comparison sites: 
http://www.toolcritic.com/10in-cabinet-table-saws.html
Steel City makes right tilt saw and I thought Grizzly did as well, but counldn't find it, Delta does but are building more lefts now.

Not to start a new thread here but, my question is since the blade tilts to the right, wouldn't you want the table extensions and rip fence all on the the left to avoid trapping the workpiece under the blade and between the fence on a bevel cut? This seems extremely _dangerou_s to me since you cant just lift off the workpiece when you have to. I would never put my fence on the "tilt" side of the blade, always away from it for _safety_ reasons. What do you guys do? :blink: bill


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> Which ever way you prefer is totally up to you. If it's what you are used to and comfortable with go for it. There is a ton of discussion on the sites, left vs right and I checked them out:
> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/LeftTilt_Versus_RightTilt.html
> but this is a whole new thread not for discussion here. Here's a link from one of the comparison sights:
> http://www.toolcritic.com/10in-cabinet-table-saws.html
> ...


 The vast majority of my bevel cutting over the last 20 years has been done using the miter gauge or cutoff table _on the left_ (my preference) and in the case of my fence there is 12" of rip capacity on the left side of the blade as well which is more than enough for what I do. :smile:


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## Wood4Fun (Aug 29, 2008)

I have the next model down of that Sears saw. I think the motor size is the same. I like it... but, knowing what I know now, I would probably go with a Grizz before a Craftsman. The only drawback to the unit woodnthings points out is that you will need to have 220 in your shop. 
For pretty much the same price, I think you are getting a lot more bang for your buck, but don't forget the expense of 220 (assuming you don't already have it). If 220 were out of the question, I'd go with one of their (Grizz) smaller motor'd saws at a lower price, and then spend the money on some other toy

edit: I've read/heard that you can't use a router lift with that extension on the Grizz... woodnthings????


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Bill,
At home I have a right tilt. At school we have both left and right tilt models. At home the measuring guide is always accurate. At school, both L & R tilts need to be measured before the cut. A pain but expected.

Just recently I did a series of bevel cuts. These are the first I've done in over 5 years. These I used the same push stick for all cuts. Yes it chewed up the push stick but that's what a push stick is intended to do.

If it is necessary for the blade to touch the sacrificial fence, there are other techniques to make cuts safely that involve using a paddle shut off.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Rich, here's the question again*

Quote> Not to start a new thread here but, my question is since the blade tilts to the right, wouldn't you want the table extensions and rip fence all on the the left to avoid trapping the workpiece under the blade and between the fence on a bevel cut? This seems extremely _dangerou_s to me since you can't just lift off the workpiece when you have to. I would never put my fence on the "tilt" side of the blade, always away from it for _safety_ reasons. What do you guys do? :blink: bill <Quote
Not questioning the measuring to the blade aspect. My Beisemeyer on my left tilt saw is dead on, blade vertical, every time. That's not my question here. I'm used to having the blade tilted away from the fence when making a bevel, so that the workpiece or cutoff is free to lift off, and not trapped under the blade and between the fence, a definite possibilty for kickback. Man, the other way would scare the piece out of me. Maybe I'm not describing this the best way. I'll try to take a photo, when it's daylight and I can wear some ballistic armor and a full face helmet.  bill


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> Quote> Not to start a new thread here but, my question is since the blade tilts to the right, wouldn't you want the table extensions and rip fence all on the the left to avoid trapping the workpiece under the blade and between the fence on a bevel cut? This seems extremely _dangerou_s to me since you can't just lift off the workpiece when you have to. I would never put my fence on the "tilt" side of the blade, always away from it for _safety_ reasons. What do you guys do? :blink: bill <Quote
> Not questioning the measuring to the blade aspect. My Beisemeyer on my left tilt saw is dead on, blade vertical, every time. That's not my question here. I'm used to having the blade tilted away from the fence when making a bevel, so that the workpiece or cutoff is free to lift off, and not trapped under the blade and between the fence, a definite possibilty for kickback. Man, the other way would scare the piece out of me. Maybe I'm not describing this the best way. I'll try to take a photo, when it's daylight and I can wear some ballistic armor and a full face helmet.  bill


I think that you described it pretty well. 

It does seem to me that there is a definite kickback possibility!

Being a "left bigot" I have a hard time visualizing a right tilt saw in use. Of course I have also never seen one.

George


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Bill,
L vs. R is a discussion similar to how to sharpen a chisel. :laughing:

At one time (Over 30 years) I used a RAS. For accuracy, I had to draw a line for every cut. Then someone explained that all blades are bent, crooked, have that one tooth that is 1/128" further out than the others, etc. On a RAS it is not practical to use the right side of the blade as the measurement reference. 

When I purchased a table saw, I demanded a right tilt for measurement accuracy.

I agree that it is possible for a kick back when cutting a bevel on a right tilt saw. Other than the project that I'm working on (Crown Molding) currently, I can't really remember the last time that I cut a bevel on my saw. (At school, I did make 8 bevel cuts on a right tilt about August 2003.) For the crown molding project, I made 225 feet of bevel cuts. All the cuts were the same and the saw set up stayed the same. The bevel cut is just like any rip cut. The material MUST be held against the fence and down on the table. The material must be pushed through the blade to finish the cut. So, my push stick now has a 38° cut through it, however all my bevel cuts were made w/o incident.

While making bevel cuts I did notice that the "Down toward the Table" pressure applied by the operator is an important aspect of cutting bevels.

I guess in my case, I prefer the accuracy every day and I'm willing to accept that special techniques are needed for that once every six years bevel cut.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Rich you and I are gonna get this sorted out*

If I have to ride my Harley out there and buy you a beer! I've been usin a table saw since 1960. I taught Materials and Processes, (SHOP CLASS) at the college level, for 3 yrs, University of Illinois. I own 5 tables saws. 12" 5 HP Powermatic and on down. I gonna 'splain this one more time. Let's say we've got a 12" wide board and were gonna put a bevel down the length of it, 48", 3" in from one edge at 45 degrees. My proceedure is to set the blade at 45 degrees, left tilt, away from the fence. I adjust the fence to the right, so the teeth come in contact with the piece at 3". I make my pass, the cutoff falls off and the 3" piece is pushed through. No blood, no sweat, no tears, no kickback.
IF....I were to place the fence on the left side of the blade and set it to cut a 3" wide bevel, the 3" dimension would be face down on the table. The resulting cut would trap that piece between the fence and the blade and the table....not a good thing. :thumbdown:...Blood? Tears? Kickback? who knows. I really don't want to try it for a photo. 
It doesn't matter which way the blade tilts as long as the fence is located on the side way from the top of the blade. Left tilt saw, blade on right of blade. Vice Versa for a right tilt. Oh, hell I'll go make a cut and post it.:laughing: bill
Now unless I'm missing something here, what difference in accuracy or measuring does a right tilt have over a left tilt...you still have to measure or make a trial cut on a scrap to get it right on.

The bottom photo is what I mean when I say "trapped" between the fence, the blade and the table. DO NOT DO THIS! THIS PHOTO WAS STAGED FOR THE POST! :thumbdown:


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## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

I prefer a table saw blade that tilts to the left. If I`m ripping wood to build a mitered collumn...I think it`s best to have the visible side of the column facing up when ripping...but that`s just me. Rick


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

As mentioned earlier maybe it would be best for someone to start a new thread if interested in further discussing right versus left tilt saws  and if anyone else has information on the saw I actually started this thread about I would surely appreciate it! :smile:


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

woodnthings said:


> The bottom photo is what I mean when I say "trapped" between the fence, the blade and the table. DO NOT DO THIS! THIS PHOTO WAS STAGED FOR THE POST! :thumbdown:


I agree with everything that you've said. :yes:

My preference is a right tilt. Bevels can be cut safely on a right tilt saw by using the appropriate techniques. :laughing:

Now I have to go because I need to rip another 2x4 at a 38° and FORTUNATELY I left the table set up for the cut. 

Gawd oh how I hate crown molding.


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi Marv,
Knottscott would surely know the info on this one... he must be on vacation or something. Give him some time to reply.
I have the smaller one (built by Steel City). I can't say enough good things about it. 
Woodnthings is right, Grizzly is hard to beat for value (new). But Sears did hit a home run with their mid-upper table saws. I'm sure their cabinet saw is great, too (the resemblance to Steel City's 10" cab saw is uncanny :shifty.

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_closeup.cfm?category=12&tool=35618


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm back from vacation, but I can only speculate on who makes the saw in the 2nd link (the 3hp cabinet saw). 

The first link shows the Craftsman 22124 hybrid that's made by Steel City's Orion subsidiary....it's a very nice 1-3/4hp saw capable of running on 110v or 220v, has a great fence, cabinet mounted trunnions, and weighs in at 425#. I had one for 3-1/2 year and really enjoyed using it. Great saw for a hobby shop. It took a heck of a deal on a 3hp industrial Shop Fox W1677 cabinet saw to get me to switch. 

My guess is that the bigger saw is also made by Orion, but I really can't say for sure. The Orion models made for Sears tend to start with the prefix "152".....if someone from Sears can tell you the whole manufactuer's model # found on the manual, that may answer your question. It might be a fine saw, but I haven't heard from anyone who actually owns one. The 22124 is a lighter duty saw, but was at least well proven by a large following. This Sears saw is right around the same price as a Grizzly, Shop Fox, or Steel City 3hp cabinet saw, which are a more proven choice in this class of saw. Good luck! :thumbsup:


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## snowi (Mar 2, 2008)

*152 Craftsman 10" table saw*

Hi,, now your gonna hear from someone who owns a 152- saw.

Out of the box, PERFECT. I only had to make minnor adjustmants to the fence. Did I say that I love this saw? Well if I haven't,, I LOVE THIS SAW... 

The model number is 152-271250 with left tilt. ( I am a left bigot )

The only blade I use so far is the one that came with the saw. I also installed a router between the left side rails, so that the fence is in use when needed. I have purchased a Freud Dado blade that is still new in the box. 


Did I mention that I love this saw?

Ralph


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks for all the great info guys! It does look strikingly similar to the Steel City saw and that one seems to get good reviews. I also checked out several others including the SawStop, General, Delta Hybrid, etc at the local shop today and I'm waiting on them to get the new Unisaw in before I make a decision (I don't think I can justify the Unisaw price for what I will do with it but I would like to check it out :smile.
Ralph, would you mind measuring the base of your saw when you have a few minutes? One thing for sure is I'll need a mobile base so I want to make sure I can find one for the Craftsman before I decide to go that route.

Almost forgot, I haven't decided on the saw yet but I did already get my first accessory for it. :smile:


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## Clouseau (Mar 22, 2009)

*Left or right?*

Left and right tilt saws also have a left side and a right side on the fence. Use the one you have correctly. Don't trap wood.


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

Since I couldn't find much hands on info regarding the Craftsman I decided to go with the 36-R31X-U50 Unisaw and found a great deal on this one without a fence.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260471431107&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Not sure if I will use the Unifence I have or get the 36" Biesemeyer below which would put me at about the same cost as the Craftsman. 
http://www.tools-plus.com/delta-78-...m_source=shopzillabizrate&utm_term=DEA78-138B

Once I build a new outfeed table, decide whether or not I want to cut up a new fence to install the sliding table and get a mobile base I think I'll be set. (for a while at least! :smile


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