# fixing a bad built-in



## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

This is the 2nd time in 2 weeks I've been tasked with fixing somebody else's craftsmanship. Doesn't bother me one bit. As long as there are wannabe carpenters and woodworkers in my area they're making my business money. 

Anyway, This is my project.

The contractor that started this built the boxes, installed the hinges, built 2 of the 4 doors, left his tools, and skipped town.

My plan of attack: Pull the mdf boxes out of the cubby and build face frames. Attach face frames with pocket screws. Get my cabinet maker to build 2 more doors or 4 new doors if he can't get them matched up. Attach doors. Adjust hinges. Collect my money, and leave the customer satisfied.

I was just wondering if this plan of attack is similar to somebody else or if anybody had a different point of view. Thanks!


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## RLHERRON (May 15, 2008)

I would modify with some shelves. The structure for the size of the TV and stero components is just too open.

Of course, charge them for the modifications:yes:

RLH


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

> left his tools, and skipped town.


You are going to run into this more and more. With
the economy like it is, they are just one step ahead
of the bill collector. Some one is looking for the tools.
And the truck they were driving as they left town.

In one area here they tore down 28 new houses that
were framed and decked, no wall or roofing. The bank
didn't want to deal with it. The materials had been out
in the weather for over six months.

The emigrant workers here are leaving like rats on
a sinking ship.


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

If I could I'd start from scratch and I would prefer too, but the woman has already spent 600 bucks to get this far. She's a single mom of 3 who I think has just recently lost her husband. She wants to do the job using what is already there. The last knucklehead even cut a hole in the back like it was a piece of furniture. 

I would have left the back open completely to paint the drywall to match her living room and put a protruding ledge with a bullnose profile in between the boxes so it looked like a true built-in. The flipper door hinges the guy used are crap. i would have spent real money on them and bought the Accuride 1 2 3 flipper door hinges from Rockler. But I also would have charged a grand or more from start to finish. 

I have to fix everything for 250 bucks plus materials.


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

BHOFM said:


> Some one is looking for the tools.
> And the truck they were driving as they left town.


Funny you mention it because his F-150 is still in the driveway too.


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## Davet (Nov 16, 2007)

I agree with RLHERRON about shelves

I would put an adjustable shelve up with the T.V. ..so all the electronics would be in the upper portion of the cabinet...this way all four doors would not need to be open for the remotes to work, just the upper doors. and less wires would need to be run thru to the upper and lower half of the cabinet.

and would put a few adjustable shelves in each of the bottom halves as well for media storage.

I would use the two doors already made for the lower part.
and go with a real nice pair of bi-fold raised panel doors for the top.
The two big solid doors in the top will have one heck of a swing into the room when open.


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

I'd have walked away. The hinges seem to be fairly standard but not sure if they fit the application. Looks like he attached them to the slides so the doors would pull out then fold back into the cabinet? 

Thats what the lady gets for hiring bootleggers. If he isnt a bootlegger he'll have a BOND in which case she should go after it.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

TheRecklessOne said:


> I have to fix everything for 250 bucks plus materials.



You may have underbid the work.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Reckless,
I understand you are trying to help this lady out, so do what you can and move on, and also learn from this experience. I spent 25 years in the fire service, where our whole job was helping people, so it took awhile for me to learn to say no once in awhile. 
Back in the spring I bid a kitchen remodel for my son's boss. He ended up giving the job to his brother's company, which I understand. However, he told me up front his brother was bringing in a bunch of union carpenters (read:commercial work). Because he was my son's boss and I realized up front I wasn't going to get the job, I still spent a couple of hours trying to coach him on how the job should be done and what he could expect from his brothers guys. Nothing against the union guys, but around here, they don't do residential work, and don't work in places where people are still living. To make a long story short, they did a terrible job installing chinese knock down cabinets. They also installed two new anderson casement windows and two sliding doors. Didn't do a good job on those either. He called me back over to his house in Novemeber to show me he still didn't have a working kitchen. The job was only about half done, he through them off the job. He begged me to fix all their mistakes and finish the job. Money was not an issue. I told him I couldn't help him unless I gutted the kitchen and started over with Kraftmaid cabinets like I originally bid. I don't like to go in where the customer is upset already and try to fix someone else's screwups. It's usually a no-win situation. Best to walk and not get caught in between the crossfire.
Mike Hawkins


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

Ouch, I think the $250 part is going to sting. I would pull the MDF cases forward till the front edge of it was flush with the sheetrock and fasten, then case the opening with square stock and let that be your face frame. This way you don't have to rely on the chance of his boxes being out of square. Add the needed cross members and _overlay_ doors, and hopefully be done with it.


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

I have no doubt I underbid the job. I did this for 2 reasons. One, She needs other carpentry work done that was part of the original deal with her crappy contractor, but wants this finished first. I'm assuming its to see if she can trust me. Two, I do feel for her situation.

Anyway, I guess I'm going to stick with my original plan. Unless anybody sees any glaring problems.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Reckless,
Be careful on underbidding the initial job in hopes of getting future work. That's an old jewish trick from where I came from. (no offense to the jews.) I used to do work for a jewish developer years ago. His favorite trick was to tell you, "give me a real good price on the first job and I'll give you the rest of the jobs after you do the first one." Needless to say you didn't get the rest of the work. Or if you did, he wanted it for the same price as the first one. You have to establish a cost per day of what you need to make and stick to it. Consistency is better and easier to keep track of in the long run. If you get every job you bid, it usually means you are not charging enough. Sell yourself, but don't sell yourself short. Good luck,
Mike Hawkins


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

Wow I thought that was an old Irish trick...or was it Baptist?:smile:


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## Davet (Nov 16, 2007)

I seen this with (India) Indians, Portuguese, and Good Ole Boy ******** as well! :shifty:

Must really be kind of a universal thing ! :laughing:


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

Hey hombre, es mexicano!:gunsmilie:


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

Couldn't be the Irish...We do everything ourselves! Merry Christmas all!!!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

firehawkmph said:


> Reckless,
> Be careful on underbidding the initial job in hopes of getting future work. That's an old jewish trick from where I came from. (no offense to the jews.) I used to do work for a jewish developer years ago. His favorite trick was to tell you, "give me a real good price on the first job and I'll give you the rest of the jobs after you do the first one." Needless to say you didn't get the rest of the work. Or if you did, he wanted it for the same price as the first one.
> Mike Hawkins


Are you suggesting having the perspective client fill out a religious affiliation form before bidding the job?


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

> Are you suggesting having the perspective client fill out a religious affiliation form before bidding the job?


A bit off topic, but.. 

We went looking at new trucks some time ago and
they would not give us a cash price unless we filled
out a credit ap. I tried to explain that I would write
them a check if the price was right, but, no, you
have to fill out their paper work and wait for it to
be processed. We are still driving the 30 year old
Toyota.

Sorry to get off track a little.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

Reckless; All the above advice is solid and correct; May I just add this caveat: YOU TOUCH IT YOU OWN IT, YOU MARRIED IT. This is a nightmare waiting for you to take it.The job is screwed up, the owner is pissed off, I guess you didnt see that BIG ASS sign on the front :}:}:}
SCAPEGOAT WANTED!!!!!!!!! Contractor required to work for FREE for as long as customer wants; Will be responsible for everything that has happened before, Now and forever in the future.:yes:


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## Jason W (Dec 18, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> You may have underbid the work.


No doubt about that!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

The elusive carrott dangled out jst far enough you will never reach it. If you can do this first, I will have more things for you to do, but you have to do it for this amount. I wonder why the guys tools and truck were still there, she probably drove him to kill himself. See if the keys are still in it!!

Leave charity work to charities.


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## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

Check the hinges to see what the overlay is...you can`t put in an upper shelf without an H-unit or (place for the doors). A face frame might be too close to the mantle. You need to find where the other guy stepped on his own toes!! Keep it simple!! Repair...and use what`s there. Rick


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## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

Looks like he could not figure out how to build the upper doors. You might have to build an applied header and bull-nose between upper and lower doors. Good Luck! Rick


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

PIANOMAN!!! The only person to offer any hope... Thanks for nothin' everybody else! I'm just kidding. I e-mailed the woman asking if she would consider a complete redesign that would be correct, and functional. She wants to see the sketch up so that's a good sign in the right direction. Hopefully all goes well with that.

:boxing:


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## Allthumbs27 (Dec 25, 2008)

I bet it was the husband who thought he could handle the project. He has to hide somewhere in the house while you fix his screw ups.
I have had to help women fix something while the husband was fiddle farting around on another project that was sure to be yet another screw up


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

yeah! or maybe the lady tried to do it her self and broke a nail and can't admit...oh i better not go there. nevermind!


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## TheRecklessOne (Jul 22, 2008)

Maybe I can talk her into letting me have the truck. Its been in her driveway for over a month. What are the rules on that?


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

TheRecklessOne said:


> Maybe I can talk her into letting me have the truck. Its been in her driveway for over a month. What are the rules on that?


I think it's finders keepers, loosers weepers.:blink:


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

TheRecklessOne said:


> Maybe I can talk her into letting me have the truck. Its been in her driveway for over a month. What are the rules on that?


Don't know about your neck of the woods, but.

We have rent houses and when they leave a car, truck,
we have to call the city to take care of it as abandon.
If you want to try to recover any money with it, we
have to get a lawyer, run an add in three newspapers,
send registered letters to their last know address and
wait six months. Then do it again. Then the car or
truck must be sold at auction and any left over
funds must be returned to the owner. If the owner
shows up with in a year, everything has to be returned
and they get the car or truck back.

Go for it!!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## justin2009 (Jan 5, 2009)

Someone else might have pointed this out, but that's reeeeeally close to the fireplace mantle! Doesn't leave a lot of room for any trim on the outside. You could redesign the piece and spend less than 25% of your budget on materials (if you went doorless and added more shelves), but that wouldn't leave a lot left over for your labor. Big space at the top for the TV and some nice shelves below instead of the center divider the last guy stuck in the middle. 2 sheets of nice plywood max, plus trim materials, and it looks like he left you some plywood to get you started...


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## scribbles (Mar 2, 2009)

You will not make anything only charging $250, but you should lean some things. Finishing the thing, frame and doors are the art of a project like that. I would walk away. If you choose not to that is fine I have done my fair share of work for free, but just know that going in. You have about 8-10 hours of work to get that project looking good. But your plan is on thy correct tract. Don't mess with the tools or truck; it will just cause you problems. And for future refrence ppl lie, bid a project one piece at a time. If you do good work ppl will call you back, but dont give someone a "deal" hopeing for more work.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

TheRecklessOne said:


> Maybe I can talk her into letting me have the truck. Its been in her driveway for over a month. What are the rules on that?


Do not even think about it. There are all kinds of legal entanglements. 

G


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## KB Services (Nov 28, 2006)

Homeowner can have it towed and impounded. From there it's the property of the towing company. Then you can ask them to let you know when it comes up for auction. They'll hold it for 30 day's or so on average then sell it. I do foreclosures once in a while and they leave perfectly good cars there and I have to have them towed. 

Stay legal stay out of JAIL. You can't make to much money in jail.:thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*More Free Advice!*

The truck and the tools are pobably STOLEN! That's why he left them. Call 911 from her phone and run! Don't ask me I'm hiding from the guvmnt? :laughing:bill


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