# stair threads and floors, black walnut



## Redblackviper (Sep 5, 2011)

Hey everyone, i have a project to do, it involves making stair treads out of one piece black walnut and living room floor.

This is for my sister and i wanna make it real nice, so the stair treads are trapezoid as in 18"x8"x48" and i need to make them one piece, question is will the boards survive the constant pounding and not break, also any suggestions one what glue to use to glue them down. The black walnut is mostly all 21"x1"x12' and s2s.

The living room floor (500 sq) is a little more difficult because that same black walnut that im using for the stairs i need to plane and cut to make random 
4-8"x 3-5' lengths, 
What should i do with the butt joints?
tongue and groove? lap? loose tongue and groove?

Also the floor is gonna get glue to concrete, should i seal the backside of the wood prior to gluing to concrete? Thanks for all your help.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

If you have never installed a wood floor I would suggest you get some help from a professional, or someone that has experience. There are a lot of do's and dont's. For specific info, like existing floor prep, vapor barriers, installing techniques, and finishing, do a Google search on installing wood flooring.

You will likely end up T&G'ing the pieces, and nailing to an add on substrate...not gluing to concrete.












 







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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

I second cman's recommendation that you get professional help. You want a floor that will last a long time without problems and that's not really a job for a first-time DIY floor installation.


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## Redblackviper (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm not first time floor installer, but first time making my own floor and installing, the biggest issue is half the living room is travertine the other half needs to be black walnut, the tile is done so Must butt up against the tile so I can't put a substrate even if I want to. But in general is loose tounge and groove worse the actual tg? Reason I ask is simply loose tg would be easier for black walnut.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Redblackviper said:


> I'm not first time floor installer, but first time making my own floor and installing, the biggest issue is half the living room is travertine the other half needs to be black walnut, the tile is done so Must butt up against the tile so I can't put a substrate even if I want to.


All the more reason to get advice from a professional that has the ability to view the project and conditions.



Redblackviper said:


> But in general is loose tounge and groove worse the actual tg? Reason I ask is simply loose tg would be easier for black walnut.


There is no general answer IMO, that would answer that question. Each method of T&G, or loose tenon (like a spline) would be based on a variety of conditions. Since you can't add a substrate, and since I doubt a flooring expert would recommend gluing solid wood to concrete, I would get an opinion on the installation from a professional that has run into this before.












 







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## Redblackviper (Sep 5, 2011)

There is a glue that I use acts like a vapor barrier and glues flooring to concrete, ok if I want to hire a professional clearly I would not go on a forum and ask for advice, forums are designed to help other people with their crazy ideas and regular stuff, if for one second you think the thought of hiring a professional floor guy didn't cross my mind well it did, buuut have you seen the crappy economy well can't afford to hire just yet.


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

What about all the movement that Walnut is going to want to do thru out the seasons? The glue you have is probably meant for a composite floor & not meant for solid wood.


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## Redblackviper (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm not too concerned about movement two reasons
1 we r in central Cali we don't have too much problems with movement ( as far as I have noticed throughout the years)
2 I put in closed cell spray foam insulation, 
There is NO air penetration into the house AND there is a built in dehumidifier which keeps a constant temp and humidity in the house. 
My main question is the t&g what's the best fastest way to do it that works, I also plan on using titebond lll on all joints.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*consider posting here*

http://www.contractortalk.com/f10/

These are flooring professionals and may have run into a condition like you have? :blink: 

http://www.diychatroom.com/
Here is a DIY forum which may be of interest. Flooring is woodworking for sure, but not in the traditional sense...just sayin'


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Redblackviper said:


> I'm not too concerned about movement two reasons
> 1 we r in central Cali we don't have too much problems with movement ( as far as I have noticed throughout the years)
> 2 I put in closed cell spray foam insulation,
> There is NO air penetration into the house AND there is a built in dehumidifier which keeps a constant temp and humidity in the house.
> My main question is the t&g what's the best fastest way to do it that works, I also plan on using titebond lll on all joints.


You stated that the wood was 1", and you were going to plane it. You didn't say how thick you were going to make the flooring. So, I will generalize an answer to try to answer your question.

Since you said your tile was already installed, I'm assuming you want the wood flush to the tile. So, you will have to plane it to a thickness that will account for any substrating, which includes the thickness of the glue. 

For T&G flooring, you will cut widths in several sizes (if you want random widths), and will wind up with various stacks of lumber for each width. A T&G will produce a "V" joint on one side and just a butted seam on the other. Like most jointed flooring the ends are also jointed, so there will be alignment.

For a 'loose tenon', that will be a spline. That's just machined with a slot cutting bit. The major difference will be that the surfaces for a spline cut aren't affected by the cut, like a T&G is. On a T&G, part of the face is beveled. In using splines you would have to cut up spline stock, bookoo feet of it.

And last, for a glue down, solid lumber would be difficult to compress to the glue over any size area at a time to get all the pieces flat. Furthermore, with all the wood being joined, if there is a lifting or a movement problem, its just not one piece that will do that, as you will be gluing all of it.












 







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## Redblackviper (Sep 5, 2011)

@cabinetman thanks


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

A concrete floor can seep moisture up from below without some type of moisture barrier. I wouldn't just depend on the glue sealing it. I live in So. Cal. & it's generally dryer here than central Cal. & moisture can seep up thru the concrete especially plumbing leeks that develop under a concrete slab.

I have Travertine tile in my home & it is usually a little thicker than standard porcelain tile. How thick is the Travertine? Maybe you could plane the walnut down to 5/8" & use 3/8" substrate? Use transition strips between the different surfaces.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Back when..*

Having tried engineered random plank floor by Bruce, and then ceramic tile over a 5" slab, with visqueen and 2" foam insulation...
I ended up using commercial vinyl tile on a 1/2" floating sheathing over 30# roofing paper.
It was a particle board of sorts but waterproof. What I did that was different was, I splined all the joints with 1/8" masonite strips in grooves on all the edges. This created a homgeneous layer of the substrate, but it was tricky to set the panels in up against doors and other obstacles. To this day I have no issues with buckling or separations. I used TB 2 applied liberally and let it cure 24 HRS then I sanded it with ROS, sealed it with a latex bonding agent. Then applied the adhesive for the vinyl tile.

What I'm getting at is if you can fasten a subtrate or even float one like I did, then resaw your walnut to 3/8" or so and then glue it down you will have a stable base for it. Just a thought.  bill


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

If you can resaw your 1" to 3/8" as Bill suggest you will have twice as much flooring material.


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