# Hand planes from Hartville Tool



## lobos3737 (Oct 17, 2008)

Hey - I got an email from Hartville Tool stating that hand planes were 50% off. I took a chance and ordered the #4 smoothing and the block plane since the price seemed cheap enough. 

Do they sell a good product? Anyone have any experience either way? Did I just throw my money away?

Link to their planes: http://www.hartvilletool.com/category/519?&numview=50&start=0


Thanks in advance for your thoughts...
Rich
(very novice wood working in Boston)


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## jdixon (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm sure others will weigh in on this who may have experience with them but for the price I'm not sure how you could go wrong. It looks like a nice plane at a tremendous price!

John


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## BORKBOB (Feb 9, 2009)

First, let me say that Hartville Tool is my go-to store for a lot of things. I've been to the store and met some of their people and you just can't beat 'em. "Woodnet 15" in the shipping comments gets you a 15% d/c, too (not on sales or clearance stuff)

I believe the planes being clearanced are Anants, which are made in India. Said to be good quality and with the 50% off, hard to beat.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

so these would be good handplanes to get for a guy just getting started??????


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Tom,
Hartville usually sells decent stuff. Their catalog sales is a separate entity from the retail store. I have never had a problem with them down there. Whenever I broke something or had a problem, they were always more than happy to take care of it. Very knowledgable and friendly staff. 
Hey Bob, 
How did you make out at the tool sale on saturday?
Mike Hawkins


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

firehawkmph said:


> Tom,
> Hartville usually sells decent stuff. Their catalog sales is a separate entity from the retail store. I have never had a problem with them down there. Whenever I broke something or had a problem, they were always more than happy to take care of it. Very knowledgable and friendly staff.
> Hey Bob,
> How did you make out at the tool sale on saturday?
> Mike Hawkins


Thanks Mike. 

I think I'll get 2 or 3 to start my collection.

I am thinking:
Smoother
#5 Jack
Rabbet Planer

Sound like a good start?


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## BORKBOB (Feb 9, 2009)

Tom,

I'd go with the block plane before the rabbit. Also, give them a call and confirm that they are Anant planes.

Mike,

Didn't make it. Drifting snow was predicted and LOML and I shared a dose of the flu. I'm still limping around. She's as disappointed as I am because Hartville also has that fluffy stuff store across the road. :laughing:


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Bob,
Hope you and the misses are feeling better. You'll just have to wait until November for the next big sale.:laughing:
Mike Hawkins

Tom,
I agree with Bob on the planes. I use a block plane more than anything, jack plane occasionally. I don't think I would use a rabbeting plane. I've got a jointer and dado set and a router to do that. :laughing:


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## lobos3737 (Oct 17, 2008)

*thank you*

Thanks for responding. 

I got my planes the other day. Its clear they are not top quality but then neither are my skills. :yes: Next step is to learn how to sharpen them. 

At some point, if I ever feel that my skills have improved enough I'll upgrade. 

Thanks again
Rich


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## mpm1696 (Jan 22, 2008)

Guys, the following is "my opinion" take it or leave it... and I'm not putting down anybody!

If you want to start working with your hands like our for-father did way back then, don't waste too much time with box store cheap tools. Look for better Stanley planes on Ebay (less expensive than name brands):

Stanley's best world class planes, were the pre-war baileys and Bedrocks types between 1887 to late 1930s any post WWII planes like the four squares and handyman were of much lower quality as their predecessors. Other than the Frog difference between the Bedrocks and Baileys, the type 13 Baileys plane is the best plane in it's class. If you can afford an early Bedrock Flat or Round side plane, go ahead and take it, you won't regret it. I know - I have the whole collection.

FYI the best planes manufactured and on the market today in 2009 is the Bedrock type of the early days made by Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley - Veritas. 

If your looking into used, early Stanley planes, look for:

Rosewood handles (not painted),
"keyhole" type lever caps,
"V" type or "Sweethart" logos on the cutting iron,
2 or 3 patent dates stamps behind the frog,
solid cast frogs (no recesses),
3 piece lateral adjusters,
small 1" type brass depth adjuster,
solid cast Y depth adjuster,
no red, yellow or orange paint anywhere on the frog or lever cap,
no "Made in USA" stampings anywhere.
Other than these general factors makes it a rare - one-off -, or a later Stanley model type 15 and up. (types nos, went to 20 of today)

Note that you can get any of those planes with theses characteristics for no more than $20, other than some cleaning and some little fiddling. You can do wonders with a good antique Stanley plane.

If you're looking for just one plane, get a #5 Jack, if you like working with hand tools, you're second choice after that is a #7 Jointer plane. And the 3rd one, is a #4 Smoother.

G.luck

"plane" questions? I've got answers!

Pete


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## johnv51 (Oct 27, 2008)

I've picked up a few Stanley's from ebay over the past couple of weeks. Mostly good deals. A low of $14 and a high 0f $40. The #7's are harder to catch. So for I've acquired 3 #5's, 2 of em smooth bottom and one corrugated, 2 #4's, a #6 that I haven't received yet and a beautiful #9 1/2 block. I got the #4's and 2 of the #5's as a package.


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## mpm1696 (Jan 22, 2008)

There are good deals out there, we only need to watch out for them ...just like fishing!

The #7 and #8 are harder to get, their cost are as high as $100 for good ones.

FYI, there are other jointer made by Miller Falls, Union and Ohio tools at even better price. Note That Miller Falls numbering system is in it's length. Ex; A #7 Stanley jointer equals a #22 Miller Falls.

"Plane" question? I've got answers!

Pete


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## Cosmo (Mar 27, 2009)

*Hartville planes*

I have the same question. I'm looking for a cheaper but still decent jointer plane. The Hartville #7 is only $70 and wondered if anyone here used one.

Also, I just saw a test on popular woodworking of a Wood River plane and they smashed it with a hammer and it held up. Said it was malleable iron and pretty tough. Didn't see them use it or how much it costs but I think I saw it for about $120. 

Same question on this one, is it any good?

Don't really want to buy an old abused one and can't afford a L&N or comparable new.

Just hoping for some opinions.

Thanks much.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

My concern is that the newer inexpensive planes will require a fair amount of work to get them in usable condition, and will still won't be made as well as the older planes mentioned. Any plane will require sharpening and adjustment to work well, but the inexpensive newer ones are likely to require some flattening, possibly some machining, and you're still left with parts from questionable materials and precision that could frustrate someone getting started. 

There are so many good deals available on older used planes....add to the Baileys and Bedrocks, better Millers Falls and Record planes and the choices and bargains are plentiful. There are some resellers and restorers on a few of the woodworking websites who sell older planes that are tuned and ready to go. Most of the older planes will have been flattened already and are very well made....cleaning, honing, and final adjustment are typically all that's required. The older planes are also very nostalgic and just a lot of fun to use and learn about. Seems kind of anti-climatic to me to open a new plane from a box that says made in India or China on it, and discover rough castings, cheaper metals, and sloppy fit when you could have a plane of better quality that has a 60 year old history already. 

Even to a newbie it was fairly easy to stumble into most of the examples below....all are good usable planes, and none were more than $70...most were in the $20 to $50 range:

Here's a Bailey 5-1/4 type 13 from the late 1920s:









Millers Falls #9, 11, & 14, and a Record #4:









Record 9-1/2, 3, 4, 4-1/2, 5, 5-1/2, 6, and 7:









Just my 2 cents...


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## Cosmo (Mar 27, 2009)

*Thanks*

Nice collection of planes. Yes, I hear you about the nostalgic value of time tested classics. I am in fact bidding on a #7 and a #8 Stanley plane on Ebay at the moment. In your opinion, does a good jointer plane replace a powered jointer? I can pick up a Delta 6" profesional jointer for $225 and will jump on it if I absolutely need it. But, if I can get by with this little 4" jointer I have and a plane, I'll just do that. Thanks, I always keep my ears open for advice.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Cosmo said:


> Nice collection of planes. Yes, I hear you about the nostalgic value of time tested classics. I am in fact bidding on a #7 and a #8 Stanley plane on Ebay at the moment. In your opinion, does a good jointer plane replace a powered jointer? I can pick up a Delta 6" profesional jointer for $225 and will jump on it if I absolutely need it. But, if I can get by with this little 4" jointer I have and a plane, I'll just do that. Thanks, I always keep my ears open for advice.


That's a personal choice Cosmo. A true Neander won't touch a power jointer, but I sure find mine to be indispensable. Making an entire project worth of boards flat with handplanes is a lot of work. I tend to use the planes where power tools aren't practical or have no advantage....very wide boards, quick chamfers, smoothing, etc. A plane made in 1927 is a lot more nostalgic than my 7 year old jointer, but not usually as fast....at least not for flattening a 6" board. I personally don't usually have the time, patience or desire to do it by hand, but many do. I like hand planes, I use hand planes, I want more hand planes, but I'm not Amish in any way shape or form! :laughing:


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## Cosmo (Mar 27, 2009)

You know, I forgot to mention that I own a 12" Makita planer. So that changes the equation. I have an old benchtop planer I use for cleaning up edges. And I can plane flat up to 12" boards. I'm guessing the only thing I truly need is a way to flatten boards wider than 12" and the only option due to the fact I can't afford a larger planer is a jointer plane. Is there a need for a 6" or 8" jointer if I have a 12" planer? I think I'm missing something here (experience).


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Cosmo said:


> You know, I forgot to mention that I own a 12" Makita planer. So that changes the equation. I have an old benchtop planer I use for cleaning up edges. And I can plane flat up to 12" boards. I'm guessing the only thing I truly need is a way to flatten boards wider than 12" and the only option due to the fact I can't afford a larger planer is a jointer plane. Is there a need for a 6" or 8" jointer if I have a 12" planer? I think I'm missing something here (experience).


Planers and jointers really do two different things, though with some overlap. The jointer's role is primarily to flatten one face and then straighten an adjacent edge at a perfect 90° angle to the face...that's your reference. It won't make two sides parallel. A planer makes wood uniformly thinner, and makes one side parallel to the opposite side. If you put a twisted board into a planer, you'll get a thinner twisted board back out. If you put a twisted board on the jointer, it'll come out flat or flatter on one side....the idea is to use the flattened face from the jointer as a reference for the planer. With the help of a planer sled it's possible to coax a planer into flattening...it uses the sled's bottom as a flat reference. 

The hand planes are really handy for leveling larger glued panels....like tables and benches, or trimming pieces that can't be put on a machine.


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## Cosmo (Mar 27, 2009)

*Thank You*

Thanks, yes I get it, you need two sides 90 degrees to each other and plane the other wide side until it's the same thickness across.

I would need a jointer as wide as the board you are saying? 

What's wrong with this thinking though.
What if you plane one wide side flat, THEN run it through the jointer on it's side. Doesn't that do the same thing?

I meant to say I have an old 4" benctop jointer, not planer. 
I'm mostly concerned with flattening glued panels.
I'm kinda leaning towards a #8 Stanley/Baily plane.

I also am looking for tips on ripping planks if you know any.
I'm still new at this. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
It only takes longer.

Thanks for the lessons.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Nothing wrong with your thinking. If you build a sled and flatten wide boards with your planer (up to 12"), you can indeed edge joint them on the 4" jointer, a TS, a handplane, or a router....the key is that first flat face. My jointer is only 6", so I force the planer to flatten boards over 6" by using a sled, which is also how many folks without jointers handle flattening a face. On occasion, I'll get the board "sort of flat" with a hand plane, then plane the opposite face with the planer, then flip it for uniformity. 

There's more than 1 way to skin a cat! :thumbsup: (too bad for the cat! :laughing


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## Cosmo (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks again, you are all very helpfull.


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## Cosmo (Mar 27, 2009)

*Another question*

Thanks for being helpfull but I'm not done. I lost out on a sweet looking #9 Stanley. I wasn't around when the bidding ended on EBay and someone bumped my final up $1. I was steamed. 
O.k. I have a bid on a #8C and I don't want to lose it so I'm going to make sure I'm there at the end. It has a corrugated bottom I'm sure you know. I thought I read somewhere that the corrugated bottom isn't preferred, is this true?

Another question, I am going to look at some old wood planes today, no clue what they are.

They are mostly edge forming planes but he did say there is one that is 22" long so I'm assuming it is a jointer plane.

How do you rate wood planes compared to the steel Stanley planes?
Do they produce an equal finish? Are they easier to use?
Assuming the plane is in good condition that is.

I've never used a wood plane before, don't know what to expect. 
Thanks again, love this craft.:yes:


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