# New.. trouble gluing 2 pieces 3/4" Birch together



## nickf829 (Jul 6, 2010)

I'm looking for the best way to glue two 3/4" pieces of birch ply together to form a 1.5" thick bench top. I bought titebond original and plan to use that, but I want to know if I should be using something else.. 

I'm a bit unexperienced when it comes to woodworking, but I'm a real DIY kind of guy, and I'm learning and enjoying it. I'm turning an unused closet into an area I can tinker, reload, work on my guns and just a place in general that I can do small things in the house without having to trek outside. I've built a frame inside the closet for the workbench, cut the 2 pieces of ply for the bench top, but now I'm hesitant about how to proceed.

The birch ply has been cut to 64x20 and I plan to glue an identical sheet on top. Should I brush glue onto both sheets, then just clamp from the edges, or should I put the glue on in a "snake" manor. 

Opinions on glue im using, method I'm using to clamp, or just hints in general are appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Grain Man (Jun 26, 2010)

I would imagine there are a lot of good ways to do this, but if it was me I would screw them together with some 1-1/4" woodscrews. Maybe one row of screws down the middle like every foot or so, and then the same down the sides, about an inch from the edges.
If you really want it sturdy, you could pull the screws back out and apply some elmers wood glue in there, then reassemble it.

Once the glue is in there, you want to tighten the screws up from the center out in all directions.
(so the glue will squeeze outwards)

Then when it's all dried, flip it over and use the bottom for your finished top surface.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

I'd avoid the glue all together and just put screws through to the frame so that when you've dinged up the top enough, you can just pull that sheet off and replace it without having to lose the bottom one as well, and I'd use a thinner top layer so that it's not as expensive to replace, but if you want the solidity of the extra thick top layer, that's a reasonable design decision.

Paul


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## georgewoodie (Oct 20, 2009)

I would go with Grain Man.

I built a woodwork bench using two layers of 3/4 ply for my sub base, but did not have long clamping cawls to go across and apply pressure at the center. I spread my glue in a narrow wave pattern and did not worry about spreading. I did not want to take the time and have the glue start to harden on me.

After setting the two layers together I put screws in from the center outward. This is the same method of torquing an engine cylinder head.

After a couple of days allowing the glue to set up, I took out the screws.

For smaller pieces, you could simply set large contaienrs of water on top. Water weights 62 pounds per cubic foot, 10 pounds per [Canadian] gallon so containers of water work well as a weight.

What ever method you choose, if you use glue, watch that the glue does not act as a lubricant and permit the two items to slide apart.

Good luck.

Woodie


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

*Glue and screws*

I always go with glue and screws using the methods described above. I also use a plastic squeegee to spread the glue. Just pour it on and squeegee it thin and level. If you dont have placric squeegees, use old business cards. Squeegees are better abd pretty cheap for a pack of them.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I would go with the suggestion of screws only. These are to heavy pieces of wood and it will actually take very little to hold them together. I would think a half dozen screws would be more than sufficient for what use you are going to put this bench to.

Because this bench is being built inside a closet, inside a house, the day is going to come when you or a succeeding owner is going to want to remove it. Make future life as easy as possible. It will also make it easy to turn the top over if you ever want.

George


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

Your Titebond glue is a good quality glue. If this was outside I would use Titebond 3 but inside the original is fine. You could use 1-1/4" screws from the bottom side to fasten the two pieces together. You could edge band the top with 3/4" x 1-1/2" wood to cover the joint & make it look like a one peice top.


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## nickf829 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I was thinking of screwing it from the underside, but was worried about splitting the wood. Should I drill guide holes?

I'm going to be finishing the top with probably a coat of natural stain, then a few coats of a heavy duty clear(to be determined later). It won't get heavy use because the reloading equipment won't get moved around much and I have an actual work bench for all my wood working out in the shed, so I think I will be ok with the glue and screw method.

I plan to band the edges to give it a visually appealing look. Where is a good place to buy banding? They didn't have a very large selection of banding at my local hardware store. This will be my first attempt at banding, any suggestions? From what I've seen, it looks to be as easy as glue, clamp, trim.

Thanks again for all the help.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

If the top is going to take abuse from whatever it may require replacement down the road, I'd go with screws only. Then all you'd have to do is flip the sheet and screw it back down. The holes left on the in-between surfaces will be negligible and could be filled with caulking and leveled.

Lastly if you're going to be working with small things, gun, electronics and tool repair, (things requiring weensy springs and screws) you might consider painting the surface an off white to increase light and make it easier to find the missing stuff.


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## nickf829 (Jul 6, 2010)

That is a good point, I wasn't thinking I could flip it and just fill the holes left from the screws. I want the wood finish so I'm willing to sacrifice a little convenience for aesthetics.

Any recomendations for fastening the birch ply to the frame? I don't want to just run screws from the top, I'd like the fasteners to be hidden.


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

nickf829 said:


> That is a good point, I wasn't thinking I could flip it and just fill the holes left from the screws. I want the wood finish so I'm willing to sacrifice a little convenience for aesthetics.
> 
> Any recomendations for fastening the birch ply to the frame? I don't want to just run screws from the top, I'd like the fasteners to be hidden.


With out seeing a picture of what you have you can use corner blocks or stretchers mounted flush to the top of your frame. You can then scew thru the corner blocks or stretchers into the bottom of your top to attach.


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## jimc48 (Sep 12, 2007)

You mentioned you wanted the wood finish so my suggestion is moot but I'll go anyway - I'd screw the two pieces of plywood together and then top with a piece of tempered hardboard. Much easier to replace the hardboard than to replace a piece of plywood that size. You could also use a piece of 3/4" and a piece of 1/2" ply with the hardboard to give you the same thickness. May sound strange, but I'd get some double-sided turner's tape and tape the hardboard down if you don't want screws showing on your top surface. The hardboard won't move with 10-12 pieces of 1" tape, about 2" long holding it.

Jim


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## nickf829 (Jul 6, 2010)

To prove my inexperience in the woodworking department, I didn't know what a corner block was until you just said I needed one. So I googled it, and wow, it's a genious idea. That will work perfectly for what I am doing. I will go with a few of thsoe spaced around the edges of the frame and I think I will be set.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I've already learned a lot from this post and just generally browsing in the forum today.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

If you are going to use a progressive press you have to find a way to attach the press to the frame of the bench. Mine ended up breaking the top it was bolted to so bolts to the bench frame were necessary. 

I am like the others, screws and glue should do the trick.


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## nickf829 (Jul 6, 2010)

Nate, were you using 3/4" or 1.5" of ply when the progressive press broke the bench top? I am at the point where I can add an additional crossmember to the frame to add even more rigidity and make it so that I can bolt the progressive press directly through the benchtop into the frame if need be, I may do it just to be safe.


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## Willie T (Feb 1, 2009)

Working on guns, you'll be using some solvents and oils? Personally, I'd use a laminate for the replacable work surface. Takes about five minutes to unscrew the top for taking outside, another five minutes to de-glue a surface sheet, and about 10 minutes to put a new one on.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

There are several ways to join two pieces of plywood, or any substrate material for that matter. They can just be glued together. A light coating over both mating surfaces would be a preferred method, but doing a zig-zag pattern or any pattern to lay out lines of glue will work. Then place the two pieces together and shift them around on each other, to smear the glue out. Then just lay the two flat and pile on some weights...the more the better.

The two pieces can be screwed together. Laying one on top of the other, have the good face side down. Lay out a drill pattern for the screws and use a countersinking bit with a pilot drill. After all the holes are drilled, separate the sheets and use a straight countersink bit and slightly countersink each hole on both sheets where they come together. That way when they get screwed together, a screw poking through won't dislodge debris that could keep the sheets from tightening up.

Use coarse thread screws and drive slowly. When near tight just bump the trigger to pull up tight. This prevents spinning them fast and either snapping off the heads, or over spinning them past their holding ability. They can get hot when driven fast. As a suggestion, most battery drills have more low end torque (when operated slow) than electric drills, and may work better at driving screws.

The sheets can be just screwed from one side with or without glue. I would recommend that the actual size needed be cut on one sheet. The second sheet could be 1/2" (or less) larger in both directions than the first. That way they can be connected without worrying about lining up the edges. When aligning them to be fastened, allow a 1/4" (or less) overhang all the way around.When connected, run a flush trim router bit around the whole outer edge to size the second sheet to the first one.

Doubled up tops add quite a bit of rigidity. Plywood (3/4") is good. There are other substrates that will also work well. You could use MDF, particleboard, or melamine. The impact resistance depends on the density of the substrate. All of the substrates mentioned are more dense than plywood. Melamine offers a smooth surface that glue won't stick to, and you can write on it with pencil and wipe it off when done.

If the concern is damage to the top sheet, an overlay sheet of hardboard (tempered Masonite) will take quite a beating and can be easily swapped out for a new sheet. It can be found in 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4". It's cheaper than a 3/4" substrate. An outside boarder edge of a wood trim can be applied to the edge of the doubled up sheets to sit a bit high to encase the drop in sheet.

If the cost of using two sheets of 3/4" is prohibitive, a single sheet could be used and applied to the frame of the bench by using cross supports to the frame at regular intervals.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

It was 2-layers of press board 1.5", was loading 9mm which I guess over time went back and forth enough to wear a crack, then a bigger crack then the thing about fell off the bench. Put some cross members in (2x4's) and bolted to them, the press feels much more stable. Better yet I then screwed my bench to studs in the wall and there is no shake at all.


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## nickf829 (Jul 6, 2010)

Well thanks for the help, I've finished my "reloading closet" and the screws in the birch ply really was easy. I finished the top in 3 coats of cherry stain and 5 coats of poly. The first 2 went on pretty rough so the last 3 were mostly to smooth things out.

Heres a final pic, and a link to the build process pics. Thanks for your help









http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Nickf829/?action=view&current=1-2.jpg&newest=1

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Nickf829/Closet remodel/


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## kjhart0133 (Feb 4, 2009)

If you choose to glue the two pieces of plywood without screws, be aware the pieces will slide around a bit despite your best efforts to keep them aligned. Cut your pieces a little over size and trim after the glue dries.


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## Gary0855 (Aug 3, 2010)

ummm. Gun powder and cedar, my two favorite smells. well, almost.

Looks great, nice job
Gary


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Hey Nick looks good. Hey I looked at the link in your signature that's a nice setup with the 3 monitors on your desk. Work computer or gaming.


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## nickf829 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks, it's a little of both. Originally built it for work, then switched gears now I pretend to work while I game haha.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Two things have been said that are absolutely critical.

First, body drill with counter sink and then pilot drill the holes. Of prime importance is to lightly counter sink both the body and pilot holes. More important than pushing debris into the joint, the counter sinks will prevent "Bridging".

Second, After the glue has been applied, tighten the screws in a circular pattern starting from the center. This will push the "squeeze out" toward the edges which is what you want.

Other tips
You need a flat surface to allow the glue to set up and cure. The garage floor is probably good for this task EXCEPT put a PLASTIC painter's drop cloth over the cement first. This will prevent moisture from the cement floor migrating into your plywood and warping the glue up.

The buckets of water thing is a good suggestion if you have a very flat surface to use for the glue curring phase.

You may want to add a straight stiffening brace or three to the back of the glue up. This can easily be made using two pieces of plywood about 3" wide. Glue them together like a "T" and almost as long as your bench top. Make these and before you have glued and screwed your top together, attach the "T" pieces to the bottom piece clear of any screw holes. Allow this assembly to cure over night. This will make the bottom piece flat and when glued and screwed to the top piece the top piece will also be flat.


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