# craftsman 113.228360 cheapo wood lathe



## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

i've a question about the captioned lathe, that i got for $20. i'll preface this by saying i'm a WW, but not a turner. i've no real interest in turning at this point, but for $20, i rounded out my tool arsenal with a lathe (of sorts), which was the only type of WW tool i didn't have. my question involves the tailstock.

here is a link for the lathe's OM:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/5739.pdf

specifically, is the center spur (part l) supposed to rotate within the spindle tail stock (part f)? or is the work piece supposed to rotate on the center point (part z) that sits within the center spur (part l) that is held by the spindle tail stock (part f)? should anyone know of a video addressing this tail stock question, a link would be appreciated.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Based on the parts manual what you have is called a dead center. You lubricate that with wax and the wood rotates on the point as well as the cup center. No one uses that anymore. It does work but it burns the wood and screams at you when you turn due to the wood friction against the dead center. 
What you need is a live center. they aren't very expensive. You need one to match the taper of the tailstock. I didn't look in the manual to see what it is. It's either a #1 or #2 morse taper. You can buy them at a lot of the wood working places and especially the woodturning stores.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I think the lathe did not come with what is called a live centre.

The spur would be installed in the headstock and so would turn with the headstock.

The tailstock is obviously stationary. A live centre is needed to use the lathe. This has the relevant morse taper of the tailstock and typically a cone shaped point with a bearing in between to allow the point to rotate with the piece.

If you want to understand the many ways wood needs to be "chucked" in a lathe, this is an excellent video. Not a quick review. It is almost 1 1/2hr long, but worth watching to understand the many ways in which wood can be chucked in a lathe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUXil-5dEeo


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

There are 2 things about that manual which will cause no end of confusion.

First, on page 7 there are some typing errors ...

The part in the diagram which is labelled L is not a center spur, it's a center cup, and it goes in the tailstock spindle (part F, which sits in part E with part G as an adjustment handwheel).

The part in the diagram which is labelled M is a center spur. It goes into the headstock (K) and provides the drive power to the piece of wood positioned between those centers.

Second, there has been a terminology change since that manual was written.

In their glossary of terms on page 5, they say that a SPUR CENTER is also called a LIVE CENTER because it turns.

Not according to modern terminology. A spur center is a spur center, but it isn't a live center.

A live center is a device which has a free-spinning front cone, typically with bearing races to reduce friction. You can't drive anything with it because of this free-wheeling attribute.

In today's terminology, a live center goes in the tailstock, in place of a cup center (which as John points out burns the wood since it is a dead center, meaning it doesn't spin freely.)

Hope this didn't pile more confusion on ...


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

toolguy1000 said:


> i've no real interest in turning at this pointhttp://


 :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Untill you figure out how it works and actually turn something!!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

am i correct that this pic on VM shows the same lathe with a live center?

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=15636

also, here's a copy of the OM:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/5739.pdf

om page 31, in the section dealing with accessories, does the Ball Bearing Center with No. 1 M,T, Shank (fourth item down on the left) seem to be the live center option?


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

toolguy1000 said:


> am i correct that this pic on VM shows the same lathe with a live center?
> 
> http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=15636


yes, the thing in the tailstock looks like a live center to me



> also, here's a copy of the OM:
> 
> http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/5739.pdf
> 
> om page 31, in the section dealing with accessories, does the Ball Bearing Center with No. 1 M,T, Shank (fourth item down on the left) seem to be the live center option?


Most likely that's it.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

does this look like a live center that would work with my cheapo lathe?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/MT1-LIVE-CENTER-MORSE-TAPER-TRIPLE-BEARING-1-MT-0002-/330774854618?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4d03b7bbda


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

yep that should work :yes:


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## Retired2016 (Nov 30, 2018)

*Spindle tail-stock*

I just picked up the same model 113.228360 and the tail stock spindle is causing the center cup to wobble inside the spindle. I can not fine a replacement for it. Does anyone have any ideas for me? I am retired and just starting out, put my first piece of wood in and it flew right away. When checking the center cup, it moved and spun by hand with a lot of play such as a wobble. I am also new to this thread.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Here's your answer, post no. 2*



john lucas said:


> Based on the parts manual what you have is called a dead center. You lubricate that with wax and the wood rotates on the point as well as the cup center. No one uses that anymore. It does work but it burns the wood and screams at you when you turn due to the wood friction against the dead center.
> *What you need is a live center. they aren't very expensive. You need one to match the taper of the tailstock. I didn't look in the manual to see what it is. It's either a #1 or #2 morse taper. You can buy them at a lot of the wood working places and especially the woodturning stores.*





Retired2016 said:


> *I just picked up the same model 113.228360 and the tail stock spindle is causing the center cup to wobble inside the spindle.* I can not fine a replacement for it. Does anyone have any ideas for me? I am retired and just starting out, put my first piece of wood in and it flew right away. When checking the center cup, it moved and spun by hand with a lot of play such as a wobble. I am also new to this thread.


The hole in the tail stock is tapered to a specific type, Morse no. 1 or Morse no. 2. If it wobbles, chances are your "dead center" is a no. 1 and the hole is a no. 2 Morse taper. Forget the dead center and order a live center in Morse taper no. 2, which is larger. I did not check that ebay link, but it's older and may not work any longer.... I donno? But a no. 2 live center will be easy to find on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MT2-Live-C...h=item1c510e2fe7:g:-QIAAOSwiBJaMEzC:rk:5:pf:0


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## holtzdreher (Jul 20, 2016)

The cup center is what is called a dead center. When I learned to turn in the dark ages, there were no live centers. As noted above, you lube it with wax or heavy weight oil and just let the wood turn against the dead center. Yes it builds friction, but it is only to hold the tail end of the wood steady. so if it starts smoking, it is too tight, or not lubricated enough. Back in the Dark ages of the 1960's it was the only way we had.

If you get a live center for the tail stock. That cup center makes an interesting drive center for the head stock. You use the friction of the cup center against the wood to turn the piece. If you get a catch, the wood simply stops spinning and your gouges into the wood from tool holding mis steps is not as catastrophic as with a spur center. I do mostly spindle turning and I really like using the cup center in the head stock for smaller pieces.


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## Retired2016 (Nov 30, 2018)

*The dead center*

I’m not sure what piece that’s being talked about but there are three pieces. The piece I’m needing is the outer piece tail stock that has threads on the outside where a wheel turns it to tighten against the head stock, also has an outer flat notch that is used to tighten into place. Seems that there is no taper on the inside causing the center cup to wobble. I will go see a wood turning shop with my complete tail stock, hope it helps from what all of you are saying, thanks


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