# Brush marks...my finish work is terrible



## no1hustler (Nov 17, 2010)

Ok, I'll admit it. I don't know a whole lot about painting. The only thing I have learned is that its better to use higher quality products. Perhaps that is because I'm terrible at painting and the good stuff is better for people that suck. :laughing:

So, help me learn. I built a bed over the summer and had visions of smooth black wood but instead of I not so great looking brush marks all over. It isn't terrible, my wife loves it (all that matters?) but I feel I can do better. 

The marble run that I did was a rush job when it came to finishing so I brushed on a primer and spray painted the final product. I just didn't have time to do anything else. 

Now, I have other products that require paint and I would like a better finish. 

On the bed I used an enamel from Sherwin Williams. They said it would be a nice smooth finish. I rolled some of it on with foam rollers (their suggestion) and some of it was done with brushes. 

Whats the proper technique? Should I be using water based or oil based? Does a more expensive brush make a difference? Synthetic bristols or real horse (whatever animal) hair? Prime first? Sand between coats? Wet or dry? Polish/wax? What? 

Help!!

:wallbash:


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## kjhart0133 (Feb 4, 2009)

Oil based will leave fewer brush marks and won't have the 'sticky' feeling you get with Latex. Oil is, however, a bit messier to clean up. Spraying is the way to go, but that's not always a practical solution for just a few pieces. There is an additive you can put in Latex paint that makes it flow better and leaves fewer brush marks. I can't recall the name of the additive, but when I get home tonight I'll look it up and post it.

Painting Latex with a brush is always a problem if brush marks are not desired. A high quality latex brush is a must, try to apply the paint in one direction only. If clean-up and fumes aren't a problem, try oil paint and see if you like it better.

Kevin H.


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## no1hustler (Nov 17, 2010)

kjhart0133 said:


> Oil based will leave fewer brush marks and won't have the 'sticky' feeling you get with Latex. Oil is, however, a bit messier to clean up. Spraying is the way to go, but that's not always a practical solution for just a few pieces. There is an additive you can put in Latex paint that makes it flow better and leaves fewer brush marks. I can't recall the name of the additive, but when I get home tonight I'll look it up and post it.
> 
> Painting Latex with a brush is always a problem if brush marks are not desired. A high quality latex brush is a must, try to apply the paint in one direction only. If clean-up and fumes aren't a problem, try oil paint and see if you like it better.
> 
> Kevin H.


Thanks. I think I'll try using oil based paint next. I have the paint thinner so clean-up shouldn't be a problem. I'll be painting in the basement. Is there a lot of fumes produced from oil based paint? Last time I used too much spray paint in the basement, we had Christmas cookies that tasted like paint. Gross!

Also, if I use oil based paint, do I still use a primer? I'm assuming that I'd need an oil based primer also? 

Last, should I sand between coats?


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

i hate to paint worse than taking a beating
i just painted a toybox for my daughter/grandaughters with latex white semi gloss paint
i used a very soft bristle good paint brush and applied thin coats and it seemed to have turned out pretty nice
long strokes with the grain
and yes oil will have a very strong odor


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

i'd rather paint then do anything else.
try some flotrol for latex
and penetrol for oil if your brushing.
i never brush without it.


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## kjhart0133 (Feb 4, 2009)

FLOTROL!! That's the stuff for latex. Add a bit of that -- per the directions -- and you should see a reduction in brush marks. I've never used penetrol for oil paints, but I imagine it's the same idea.

Good luck.

Kevin H.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

If you use waterbase (latex) paint, a good synthetic bristle brush is recommended. For oil base paints a "hair" bristle brush works best, and the best I've used is Badger hair.












 









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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

With the knowledge you were given above also use Sherman Williams latex brand that is specifically for Cabinets. I can't remember the name ask your Rep. As the paint dries it constantly pulls taught giving a sprayed look


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## no1hustler (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for the tips everyone. 

Do I still prime before applying finish coats? Should I be sanding between coats?


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## no1hustler (Nov 17, 2010)

jack warner said:


> i'd rather paint then do anything else.
> try some flotrol for latex
> and penetrol for oil if your brushing.
> i never brush without it.


Hmm, just checked the website for these products. According to this, the oil based paint additive is for exterior use only!

http://www.floodco.com/paint-additive-solutions/products/view-product.jsp?productId=11

Are their products for interior use?


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

no1hustler said:


> Hmm, just checked the website for these products. According to this, the oil based paint additive is for exterior use only!
> 
> http://www.floodco.com/paint-additive-solutions/products/view-product.jsp?productId=11
> 
> Are their products for interior use?


Flotrol is available for both


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## Rick C. (Dec 17, 2008)

I hate paint


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

i love paint.
yes the marine penetrol is "recomended" for ext. i use alot of ext products inside. i also use a spar for most film coats. outside can be used inside, inside cant/shouldnt be use outside.
but if thats an issue like cab-man said its make for int. also.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

oops guess i was spelling it wrong......thought i wouldnt lol.
floetrol.... i never seen floetrol for oil. xim has a pretty good latex additive, cant remember the name right now.


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## going with the grain (Dec 27, 2010)

Spraying will show more imperfections in the pc then brushing due to thinner coats. I always use floetrol in all coats and use purdy syn brush for latex. Prep the wood with filling the grain and sand between coats. Careful on how many coats you put on, the thicker it gets, the more it could look like plastic. A coat of wax can help with making it look more "natural". Hope this helped.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

going with the grain said:


> Spraying will show more imperfections in the pc then brushing due to thinner coats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## going with the grain (Dec 27, 2010)

True, smoother coat is the reason. Thanks for the correction.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Spraying will yield a smoother application. I will say that thin applications are much better than heavy ones. Spraying an application should produce a layer thinner than if brushed. What could become obvious are imperfections left by brush strokes, which are not an issue with spraying.

Some finishing problems can be solved by limiting how thick of an application is applied. IMO, this would apply to spraying, brushing, or wiping.












 







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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

spraying will also give you en exact representation of your prep work also. all the products i use ( and most others ) will have a mil thickness guidline. each product is dif. if you exceed whats recomended, your finish can shatter and leave fracture's in your finish.

mil guild lines are for any and all types of application


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Prime if the paint you use recommends it. Brushing latex, I'll put on 2 coats, sometimes 3 as per the paint directions. After it dries, I wet sand, lightly, with 320 grit on a sanding block to flatten the brush marks. Clean everything well. Then I mix the paint, thinned almost 20% with water, and lay on a coat that looks wet, but not heavy enough to run. The thinned paint will flow and leave no brush marks. It's a little tricky on vertical surfaces, but horizontal surfaces it works well.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

Brink said:


> Prime if the paint you use recommends it. Brushing latex, I'll put on 2 coats, sometimes 3 as per the paint directions. After it dries, I wet sand, lightly, with 320 grit on a sanding block to flatten the brush marks. Clean everything well. Then I mix the paint, thinned almost 20% with water, and lay on a coat that looks wet, but not heavy enough to run. The thinned paint will flow and leave no brush marks. It's a little tricky on vertical surfaces, but horizontal surfaces it works well.


primming should always be done b4 applying paint.
wet sanding is not proper for latex.
thinning latex or oil paint is bad idea. breaks down the paint, and effects drying and curing. if you need better flow, use a conditioner like flotrol.


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