# Dust Collection Know-How



## Locodcdude

Okay, I am going to do a "tutorial" on dust collection set ups. It seems to be a popular subject in a few different woodworking magazines here and there. I thought I would share my knowledge with you guys.

A dust collection setup doesn't have to be a huge, technical piping plan throughout the shop, to get every spec of dust from the air. You need to arrange your machines in a "line" so when you run your main pipe, it will be down 1 or 2 walls, versus up and down and across the shop. Having less pipe will increase your CFM's, and less dust jams will appear in the system, if any.
Sizing your collector. My shop is a 18 x 11 building, with your typical tools, tablesaw, router, chop saw, sander, bandsaw, and planer. These all generate a good amount of dust, but in my case, they will not be run simultaneously. I went with a 1 HP, 4 inch collector. This moves the air @ 650-700 CFM's a minute.
Sizing your pipe. Go with what ever size is on your machine, Mine is 4 inch, so my main run was 4 inch. This will keep your CFM's high. Most tool ports have a 2 1/2 inch port for a shop vac. What I did was, I put wye's from the 4 inch pipe, and bushed down to 3 inch to the machines. Then used some 3 inch flex hose, and some 3 x 2 1/2 fernco's to connect the hose to the machine. I also have a 4 inch drop, with a 4 inch x 50' hose, for things like the table saw, planer, or clean up around the shop.
What kind of pipe should I use? Typically any kind of pipe works for main runs. Mostly solid unflexible drain pipe is the best I think, because it is designed to let water flow through it smoothly for easy drainage. It is also very cheap, and you can find almost any kind of fittings you need in the home improvement store, or a plumbing supply store. Flex hose is good for clean up, and connecting to machines.

So in conclusion, keep the pipe as large as you can, but don't exceed the size of the collectors port. Take a look at how many CFM's you need, and how many there is available on the typical collectors. Keep your run in a straight line, and avoid zig zags and up hill's toward the collector.

Hope this can help some people, I know when I first started designing my system, there was plenty to think about.


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## Dagwud

*Go with 4 inch or 6 inch PVC main line?*

I'm in the process of setting up my wood shop all over again after a recent move. I have a Woodtek 802-124 dust collector that appears to be very similar in size to yours. In the past I have just ran 4 hose for a short main line with a branch to my table saw and another to a hose that could be swithed over to other various tools incorporating plastic blast gates on both hoses. 

I have more room in my new shop and will have my tools on two perpendicular connecting walls. I'm planning using the solid lighter weight PVC soil pipe for my two main runs which will each be about 12 feet long forming an L shape. I'm thinking of replacing my plastic blast gates with aluminum since my plastic ones only open up about 80% of the way and don't shut completely either. I will use 4 in. hose to go from the PVC main line to about 4 or 5 machines and have one line drop down smaller that I can switch back and forth to my drill press and band saw. 

I'm being told by a fellow woodworker to make my main line with 6 inch PVC instead of 4 inch to help maintain ample suction along the length of the line and then drop down to 4 inch hose. Am I correct that you believe since my Woodtek collector has a 4 inch collector port then I it would be best to stay with a 4 inch PVC main line? 

I'm also considering eliminating 3 hoses off the main line and instead having one end of the main line end with a 4 inch hose with a Dust Right handle on from Rockler and simply switch that hose to some of my tools that I don't use as often plus be able to use it as a floor sweep. Seems like most all the reveiws have been very positive on this system which makes it very simple to switch from one tool to another. Curious if anyone has tried this system?


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## Locodcdude

Hey Dag,
Your setup is similar to mine with the "L" shape run.
With regards to your decision on moving up to 6 inch hose from a 4 inch collector. This is possible to do, but you may have less suction using the 6 inch hose. Considering your second setup with the dust right system off the end is a very good decision in my opinion. You have the flexibility to move tools around the shop, without dismantling your whole dust collection setup. I would recommend using 4 inch main line, considering your collector is 4 inch. If you are dedicated to using 6 inch, and all your machines have 4 inch ports, you may want to move up to a larger collector that moves more CFM's, and can handle the larger waste amounts. I don't know what kind of tools you have, how big your shop is, and how many machines you'll be running simultaneously, so I can't judge. But all in all, running the rocker hose is a very good idea. I my self have a 4 inch by 50 flex hose set up off the main line for my TS and planer, plus general clean up. Works amazing.


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## rrbrown

Dag you should never go up in size with the hose. However most collectors 1 1/2hp and above have a 6" or larger inlet with it reduced down to 2-4 4" inlets. If this is the case with yours then 6" is good from the collector but if not 4" is the limit on your pipe.


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## BWSmith

Metal here,takes 15 min to make a custom....as in,any angle or any offset,any transitional length.....wye.Dble wyes with transitions might take a little longer.Also can make any radius ell,rather efficiently.......all-metal blast gates are too easy.Just think metal is quicker,easier to make custom pcs.,pays bigger Bennies down the rd.BW


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## Locodcdude

Thank's everyone.
Dust collectors are sized down to a certain inlet for a reason, they are tested and have the right amount of suction vs CFM's. I personally think sizing up is a bad idea. I ran 4 inch, then used 3 inch drops for tools.


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## rrbrown

Locodcdude said:


> Thank's everyone.
> Dust collectors are sized down to a certain inlet for a reason, they are tested and have the right amount of suction vs CFM's. I personally think sizing up is a bad idea. I ran 4 inch, then used 3 inch drops for tools.


I'm not sure what your referring to with that comment. If the Dust collect has a 6" or larger hole and has it covered with a plastic cover reducing it to a 4" adapter it is because most tools have 4" dust ports. Most of those adapters reduce and work as multi port connections. It is meant to come off and be able to run a larger pipe or hose. If they left the 6" connector only it would be useless to most people as is. 

In reality if you run it at the 4" size it can starve the unit. At least on the 1 1/2 hp motors and above not sure about the smaller ones.


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## Locodcdude

At a 1 1/2" HP unit, 6 inch would be a proper size for this. They reduced down the 4 inch because most tools, like you said accept that. I have a 1 HP unit, and it has a metal plate screwed onto the inlet with a 4 inch port on it, which is meant for 4 inch only, not any higher. If you have the manual, or look on the motor, you may be able to see how many CFM's you can pass through the machine. but like I said, your 1 1/2 HP unit will handle 6 inch main line no problem.


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## rrbrown

rrbrown said:


> Dag you should never go up in size with the hose. However most collectors 1 1/2hp and above have a 6" or larger inlet with it reduced down to 2-4 4" inlets. If this is the case with yours then 6" is good from the collector but if not 4" is the limit on your pipe.





Locodcdude said:


> Thank's everyone.
> Dust collectors are sized down to a certain inlet for a reason, they are tested and have the right amount of suction vs CFM's. I personally think sizing up is a bad idea. I ran 4 inch, then used 3 inch drops for tools.


I think you need to check the post again, you seem to have misunderstood something. 

As for your system you done a good job. However you are not an expert as neither am I. I have had 4 different collectors two types of separators over the past 10 years or more and I am still trying to improve my system which works good now but I want better. There are so many factors to consider that it will make your head spin.



Locodcdude said:


> At a 1 1/2" HP unit, 6 inch would be a proper size for this. They reduced down the 4 inch because most tools, like you said accept that. I have a 1 HP unit, and it has a metal plate screwed onto the inlet with a 4 inch port on it, which is meant for 4 inch only, not any higher. If you have the manual, or look on the motor, you may be able to see how many CFM's you can pass through the machine. but like I said, your 1 1/2 HP unit will handle 6 inch main line no problem.


I've seen a 1 hp collector that had the 6 inch inlet with the (2) 4" port reducer on it. However that was a long time ago and they have rethought that some I guess since most if not all 1 hp units now come with one 4" port only. Again I told Dag that you never go up in pipe/hose size so you must have misunderstood something.


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## Locodcdude

rrbrown,
I do have a career in the HVAC and plumbing field. I am aware of pipe sizes and air movement, and the different kinds of combinations and possibilities you can have in your shop. Most people who would need this information are either beginners, or looking to upgrade their system a few notches. I simply gave my personal advice on assembling a dust collection system.
On regards to the unit you saw years ago, There you are "Years ago". Typically in todays industry, the 1 HP units will come with a 4" port, with a plastic reducer on it, or something like that. Older units may have been that way stock, or modified by someone who thinks "Bigger pipe = more suction = cleaner shop :]" Not necessarily, You want an even balance of air movement, and suction. You also need to consider your main run length. The longer your system is, and the more fittings you have in your pipe, the less air movement you will have, and the less suction you will have. In my mind, keep it short, and go off the factory settings. These units are tested and balanced by the company to give you the best dust collection possible :]


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## rrbrown

Locodcdude said:


> rrbrown,
> I do have a career in the HVAC and plumbing field. I am aware of pipe sizes and air movement, and the different kinds of combinations and possibilities you can have in your shop. Most people who would need this information are either beginners, or looking to upgrade their system a few notches. I simply gave my personal advice on assembling a dust collection system.
> On regards to the unit you saw years ago, There you are "Years ago". Typically in todays industry, the 1 HP units will come with a 4" port, with a plastic reducer on it, or something like that. Older units may have been that way stock, or modified by someone who thinks "Bigger pipe = more suction = cleaner shop :]" Not necessarily, You want an even balance of air movement, and suction. You also need to consider your main run length. The longer your system is, and the more fittings you have in your pipe, the less air movement you will have, and the less suction you will have. In my mind, keep it short, and go off the factory settings. These units are tested and balanced by the company to give you the best dust collection possible :]


Look you seem to be confused. Go back and read the post I said to Dag you never go up in size with the hose /pipe. If the collector came with a 6"port reduced to 4" ports then it would be ok to use 6 " if not then it is not ok. I don't know where you got the idea I was telling you differently.

OK your 18 and have a career in HVAC. For how long? I worked in HVAC for 6 years in the family business and was sent to Beaufort Technical College in the Marines for HVAC. My lieutenant thought we had to much free time while working Base Maintenance. That don't make me an expert at dust collection nor does it make you one. It makes you a little more knowledgeable on things but that's it, same with me. If dust collection was so simple and straight forward we all would have perfect systems but it's not and we don't.

I said you done a good job with your system didn't criticize it in any way, yet you seem to get a little defensive. All I did was agree with what you said, then added that in some cases but not all you can use the 6" duct since someone was telling Dag he should. I was explaining it a little so he would understand.

Hey I like the fact that you call your job your career. Hell allot of people your age don't even want to work. I think it's great that your into woodworking plumbing and HVAC. I was much the same worked in the construction field all my life in one way or another. 2 uncles were general contractors, and my dad and two uncles were HVAC although back then they called it Air conditioning / Refrigeration and heating.

As you get older and more experience you will learn that engineers don't always design things that work right. If they did there wouldn't be so many ticked of service people complaining about how stuff was designed. 

Example:

Having to pull a front tire or back seat to get to a car battery. 

Dust collectors with 30 micron bags

Table saw guards that are a PITA to remove and put back on.

There's always room for improvement. The dust collectors are usually over rated when it comes to CFM's just as allot of tools are over rated in HP. They use that max developed stuff to fool people. Manufacturers may design things but they usually are far from optimized.


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## Trackengr

Hello all,
I recently went through this installing a cyclone in my relatively small "two car detached woodshop". There are great points here and would like to point this out. There are webites that address system design that are helpful. Six inch mains are great but you need to size them down as the line gets further from the machine. I put in a number of outlets throughout the shop. No matter how you plan there never seems to be enough. And one last thing. Once you have a good dc system you wonder how you ever got by without one. With a dc system, it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Size it up if you can.


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## Locodcdude

Yes I am very much into working, I always have been into the construction scene of things. I am a hobbyist woodworker, and I think my skills are pretty good considering I'm 18 (Not to brag). And my HVAC and plumbing knowledge is above average for my age as well in my opinion. You would be surprised the amount of information I could spit out about the subject. I am at a state level for plumbing in my school, and have competed a district competition for plumbing. So I'm pretty interested in this kind of stuff.

Sorry If I misread the posts a bit man. I have been on the job since I was about 7 years old, That doesn't make me an expert at this stuff, All I was doing is putting out some helpful information on the subject, considering a lot of people have trouble with solutions with their systems.

Good day man,


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## rrbrown

Locodcdude said:


> Yeaa I misread what you we're saying before. That and I was talking in circles. You'd also be surprised how much I know about heating systems. I know I'm only 18, but I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to this stuff. Again, you'd be surprised.


I don't doubt you on that I started early with stuff and was well trained in Construction, Heating and air conditioning by your age myself. That knowledge helps but still don't make either one of us experts. Nothing personal trust me.:thumbsup:

No problem everyone misreads things sometimes. I've been there more then once. 

As for plumbing I know enough but hate doing it. I'm old school with copper lines, now my new house has that clear plastic hose that won't burst in a freeze. I don't like it because I don't know about it.


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## Locodcdude

Yea in my house my father and I plumbed it with copper pipe. The new plastic stuff is called PEX. It's like you said, not prone to bursting in the cold. It cost about the same as copper, considering you need to use brass fittings, and they cost more. So the cheapness of the plastic is made up for the price of the fittings. I like the stuff personally, it's easy to work with, easily changeable, and doesn't burst in the cold :] But I am also a bigger fan of the old school copper. When the job is done, it just looks neater than PEX does. To each's own I suppose.


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## mjdtexan

Locodcdude said:


> You need to arrange your machines in a "line" so when you run your main pipe, it will be down 1 or 2 walls, versus up and down and across the shop. Having less pipe will increase your CFM's, and less dust jams will appear in the system, if any.


Funny you should mention that. I saw that in practice a few weeks ago in Cleveland Texas. I went to buy 1200 bf of Cyprus and got to walk into his shop. All of his big machines were all lined up in a row in his shop. He had one big pipe over these machines and hoses coming down to them. Looked very efficient and a light kind of went off in my head. I dont have dust collection yet but will have very soon and will do my best to keep it simple.


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## burkhome

Locodcdude said:


> Yea in my house my father and I plumbed it with copper pipe. The new plastic stuff is called PEX. It's like you said, not prone to bursting in the cold. It cost about the same as copper, considering you need to use brass fittings, and they cost more. So the cheapness of the plastic is made up for the price of the fittings. I like the stuff personally, it's easy to work with, easily changeable, and doesn't burst in the cold :] But I am also a bigger fan of the old school copper. When the job is done, it just looks neater than PEX does. To each's own I suppose.


 Pex is great stuff... I sell a lot of it...One weakness is highlighted when rodents teeth are present... I just helped a customer refit his pex plumbed house with copper. He has an old house and is losing the battle with the mice.


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## BWSmith

Pex fittings used to be brass.....they've switched to plastic fittings here now.Early teething problems with them has seen plumbers runnin around scrapin up all the older brass ftgs they can find.

Another heads up....and not to be bustin on pac rim countries.But ya'll need to be keeping an eye out for all the,1" and under black or galv. fittings you see.And these would be of the made in US variety.........seems China really dosen't know how to thread.They're used in airline world....and theres simply no comparison.To the point that I'd say maybe one in 4 China fittings actually hold air?BW


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## mveach

*back to the question*

There have bin a number of books written about dust and chip collection. I have a very good one. But unless you are plumbing a large production shop, you can keep it simple. Make sure your collector is rated at 125% of your max needs. If you are only going to run one machine at a time and can remember to close the blast gate on unused machines, that would be 125% of the requirement of the machine with the highest requirement. The main reason not to step up size as you move away from the collector is it will reduce static pressure. The higher the static pressure, the more suction. If you were designing a large system, you would step down the pipe size after each branch. In small shops this is not a big deal.


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