# Shop Vac advise needed



## Goldstar225 (Feb 17, 2012)

*Shop Vac advice needed*

In the past year I've started trying to grow my woodworking ability beyond the "nail and screw butt joint" level. I've come to realize that I must get some control over my wood dust problem. For my circumstances I've decided to get a dust deputy connected to a shop vac. My problem is figuring out what I need in the way of a shop vac to make this work. My concerns are (1) insufficient air flow that doesn't draw larger chips to the collection bucket and (2) too much air flow that leads the fines to be drawn past the cyclone in the dust deputy instead of falling into the collection bucket. 

My problem in selecting a shop vac is determing the CFM that each model provides and how much I need for proper air flow. When looking at Ridgid or Craftsman the air flow numbers are (for example) 168 ft/3 min. I simply don't understand what that means.

If it helps, the tools I am running are;

Ridgid R4512 table saw
Hand held and table mounted routers
Compound miter saw.

I recently added Freud blades to the saws. 60 tooth to the R4512, 40 tooth to the miter saw.

Any and all suggestions on making this combination effective will be gratefully appreciated.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't think the CFM is going to matter as much with the shopvac. They move air at faster velocity but less volume then a DC. That dust deputy should work with any of the larger shopvacs. I have the Rigid brand and am very happy with it. 

Using the setup your talking about will work fine but will need emptying more often. 

Someone else may have a different opinion or experience with that setup.


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## 65BAJA (May 27, 2012)

I have a 5 gallon plastic dust deputy and a 16 gallon Ridgid shop vac. It works pretty good but I have to empty the deputy too often for my liking. I wish the deputy bucket was at least a 10 gallon. Also it needs to be emptied when the busket get to about 3/4 full or the vac starts to pull more into it's own filter. I might end up screwing the two 5 gallon deputy buckets together and sealing them up in the middle. Might get up to 9 ish gallons that way.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I ran a very similar setup with the biggest vac sears sells for a few months, my problem was that air flow was insufficient to clear the bottom of my table saw, it was filled in no time. Hooked my new dust collector up to it and it was empty under the saw in about 3 seconds.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

A shop vac is relatively low flow, but high head (amount of suction developed - the head of a column of water).

A dust collector is high flow but low head.

I would rate the shop vacs by the maximum head developed - if you can find the statistics.

Any time you run the shop vac, the hose and the space for the air to flow in the tool cause pressure drop which consumes some of the head. The more pressure drop consumed, the lower the effective flow of air.

I wish the shop vac manufacturers would publish the "head curve" which shows the drop-off of airflow with pressure drop. This can also be hard to find for dust collectors.

If we were able to compare head curves, we could make a better determination of the performance of a vac in real world situation.

Any CFM rating you find is practically useless, since it is likely measured at the shop vac canister without even the hose being attached.

A long time ago I purchased a Fein Turbo III. It has much better head capacity than the Rigid vac which it replaced. It is also much quieter. These machines are expensive but for my purpose, this was worth it. I do not need hearing protection just to run the vac. :icon_smile:

I would look for a vac with 2 1/4in hose. The units with the 1 1/4 - 1 1/2in hose have less airflow, and lose more pressure drop in the hose.


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## Goldstar225 (Feb 17, 2012)

Thank you, this is the sort of information I was seeking.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Goldstar225 said:


> Thank you, this is the sort of information I was seeking.


Hi Tom - What you are proposing is exactly what I have been using for the last couple of years. It's really a pretty decent setup for small volumes. 
If you go to the shop vac website:
http://www.shopvac.com/wet-dry-vacs/default.aspx?hp=6+&ts=10-14

click on any of the vacs and you will get a popup. Select the "performance" tab on the popup and it will give you the CFM and sealed pressure which is what Dave referred to as "head". The specs are somewhat confusing as the sealed pressure is measured with 0 air flow, ie hose is plugged. CFM is with absolute max airflow, read no hose. I picked the model 963-34-00 as it was the highest with both numbers I could find. If you start looking at the 1-1/4" inch hose models, you will find the head or standing pressure way up and the CFM readings way down. Hope this helps.:smile:


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

I run a Ridged vac hooked up to a shop built Thien baffle on top of a 30 gallon steel trash can. Works great and the large can dosnt need emptied very often unless I'm planing alot and then it fills pretty quick.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

I forgot to mention that I do run a "high-efficency" bag and HEPA filter with mine. Emptying the bucket isn't a big deal compared to replacing filter bags at $7 a pop. Filter bags have been lasting me over a year since I put on the Dust Deputy with the 12 gallon vac. I was changing two 22gallon bags a month before I put it on. Methinks the Dust Deputy has long since paid for itself. :smile:


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## Goldstar225 (Feb 17, 2012)

With the large vaccums that you are using, is the fine dust captured in the bucket with the Thein baffle/cyclone or does it get pulled past into the shop vac?


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Ive been running this setup for over a year now and my vac is still spotless. The Thien baffle works incredibly well. I do reccomend switching the filter to a HEPA over the stock. You will get some very light flour type dust that occasionally gets to the vac and blows right through the stock filter. The Thien baffle catches 99+% of everything though.


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## Goldstar225 (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks to all who replied. Your posts have cleared up some lingering questions that I had. My Dust deputy is ordered and I've hit my Home Depot to pick up some fittings to connect the system.


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Keep us posted on that DD. I just looked it up and that thing is awful pricey for what it is. I'm curious to hear how good it works. Just for referance, the steel can and the materials for my Thien baffle cost me around 30 bucks.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

BassBlaster said:


> Keep us posted on that DD. I just looked it up and that thing is awful pricey for what it is. I'm curious to hear how good it works. Just for referance, the steel can and the materials for my Thien baffle cost me around 30 bucks.


Awhile back Kenbo (I think) posted a review on his Thien with some photos. Kind of got my attention to I tried to duplicate his testing with my DD. Seemed to come out pretty even with only a very small amount of dust making it to the vacuum. To close for me to call a difference without more than some pictures, ie weighing stuff in and so forth. Big difference is I paid around $60 for the 5 gal kit version. I think I've seen just the cone part for sale for around $40 where you provide your own bucket and hardware. :smile:


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## Goldstar225 (Feb 17, 2012)

The Dust Deputy was $39.00, I also ordered a hose to span between the tool and the DD. Hopefully it will be here in a couple of days.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm going to piggy-back on this thread since my question is in line with the conversation. 

I just picked up a 6hp 12 gal Craftsman shop vac on Craig's List to use in my garage/shop. I plan to primarily use it for cleanup and I have ordered a reducer to hook it to my 4"/6" belt/disc sander. I understand that I will plug up filters like crazy if I sand a lot and don't have a dust separator. 

My question is this: Does anyone have experience with cloth filter sleeves? I ordered one (very inexpensive) along with a new filter and the reducer that I mentioned before. The theory is that it fits over the filter and keeps it from plugging up. It is supposedly easy to shake out/rinse/launder. I am skeptical as to how effective it can be, but it was cheap enough to try. I don't have a planer, lathe, or joiner to make heaps of shavings with. Thoughts?


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## Wheeler (Sep 27, 2012)

I always just bought any vac that had HEPA filtration... I'm easily pleased haha xD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA


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## BassBlaster (Nov 21, 2010)

Phaedrus said:


> I'm going to piggy-back on this thread since my question is in line with the conversation.
> 
> I just picked up a 6hp 12 gal Craftsman shop vac on Craig's List to use in my garage/shop. I plan to primarily use it for cleanup and I have ordered a reducer to hook it to my 4"/6" belt/disc sander. I understand that I will plug up filters like crazy if I sand a lot and don't have a dust separator.
> 
> My question is this: Does anyone have experience with cloth filter sleeves? I ordered one (very inexpensive) along with a new filter and the reducer that I mentioned before. The theory is that it fits over the filter and keeps it from plugging up. It is supposedly easy to shake out/rinse/launder. I am skeptical as to how effective it can be, but it was cheap enough to try. I don't have a planer, lathe, or joiner to make heaps of shavings with. Thoughts?


 Buy a dust deputy or build a thien baffle and that dust never gets to your vac to begin with.

I have a small 5 gal shop vac I use to clean up around the shop. It has one of the filter cover bag thingies your talking about. It does protect the filter but is a pain to clean sometimes and it has to be cleaned often for the vac to have full suction.


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## Phaedrus (Jan 18, 2012)

BassBlaster said:


> Buy a dust deputy or build a thien baffle and that dust never gets to your vac to begin with.
> 
> I have a small 5 gal shop vac I use to clean up around the shop. It has one of the filter cover bag thingies your talking about. It does protect the filter but is a pain to clean sometimes and it has to be cleaned often for the vac to have full suction.


 
I reached the same conclusion.

See: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/forget-dust-deputy-27235/index2/:thumbsup:


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