# Any other tree look like persimmon?



## jeffreythree

I was just wondering, I am having a hard time identifying the trees I posted asking about chinaberry/soapberry previously. The dead leaves on the ground look like persimmon leaves(not soapberry), and the bark has the distinctive alligator skin scaly look of common persimmon(not soapberry). Anybody run into anything else that has a similar bark or leaf? The fruit is 50' up and dark colored. I assumed the persimmons would have been eaten up a long time ago and I was looking at some kind of seed or inedible berry up there. None on the ground of any kind, so no help there. All of these trees have very different wood so maybe I should just cut it down and mill it, I am better at identifying lumber:icon_smile:.


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## dirtclod

I was just looking at both those today. They are not native to our area, but persimmon is. I can't remember which one had bark that looked like persimmon. But the fruits bear no resemblence. The seeds of persimmon look like large sunflower seeds. The fruits are 3/4 - 2" in diameter. Possums love them and they're typically gone by this time of year. All that being said I could recognise persimmon in person without confusion. But I may not be as good id'ing it by picture. Post one and let's see what happens.


Persimmon has a distinct character to its wood. Take a hatchet and expose some then look at some of these pictures (particularily the bottom left) and see if it is a match: http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/persimmon.htm


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## tswoodshop

I too look for persimmon, as I love working with it in the woodshop, it's hard as a rock, and have used it for fences on jigs etc along with osage orange, also hard stuff. To answer your question, in OLDER trees, the bark of persimmon and black gum (nyssa silvatica) have that same distintive blocky alligator type of bark, similar to chestut oak if you're familiar with that, but instead of long furrows, it forms kindof short 4-8inch blocks. Fortunately, at least in the eastern PA area here, it is pretty distincitve, and no other trees have that kind of bark. Unfortunately, for every persimmon tree around these parts there are 100 gum trees, so they are harder to find.


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## jeffreythree

Now I am really confused, doesn't really look like any of them. Close up and a little further away photos in link so you can see them nice and BIG.

Glad to see you over here tswoodshop, you're posts over on another forum helped me with my Ripsaw a lot (I assumed by the avatar you are one and the same).


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## dirtclod

I went through about 100 trees before my last posting. I went back afterward to compare soapberry and chinaberry and it's not them. I had to go through all 100 again to find the one that looked like persimmon. It was nannyberry. But it's a large shrub/small tree. 

Your bark pictures don't look like persimmon. Got any shots of the leaves?

I agree with tswoodshop on his lookalikes. I'll add blackjack oak to the mix. But these bear only a passing resemblence.

Here's a persimmon:


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## tswoodshop

jeffreythree said:


> Now I am really confused, doesn't really look like any of them. Close up and a little further away photos in link so you can see them nice and BIG....












Problem with persimmon, is that like sycamore and many of the maples, as the tree gets older the bark has so much variation. Also depending on what part of the country you are, the soil and moisture conditions... this pic does have some of the alligator type bark I am familiar with when looking at a persimmon tree, but the ones I've seen here in PA have larger "plates", and deeper furrows, and more of a pattern to them. IDing any tree just from bark is kinda difficult anyway because of the variation. If you really want to know for sure, use leaves if available, but especially the bud and bud scars on the small branches. Or, if you can get a chunk of the cross section of actual wood under a 10X lens and get a hold of Hoadly's "Identifying Wood" and check out the micrographs in his book, that would also ID it for you.


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## jeffreythree

Whoa, way off on this one. It is an ash, probably green ash. I don't like to leave unresolved threads hanging around. The 'fruit' was the old flowers still on the branches.


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## Kirk Allen

Yes, the pics of the close up bark is Ash.


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## BillWine

These are ash trees in the two photos


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