# Craftsman plane??



## ChuckBarnett

Anybody know if this would be a good choice for me? Just getting started in woodwoorking. I have a 6" block plane. No jointer. 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/tls/3565743288.html

Thank you!


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## Dave Paine

This is a No 5 which is a good size. Hence many call it a "jack" plane as in jack-of-all-trades.

Stanley made a number of different lines of hand planes. The Craftsman, Handyman and Defender lines were less expensive, so likely some features missing.

This has a upside down "U" for the lateral adjustment lever. Cheaper than the two piece design on the Stanley-Bailey line.

The plane looks reasonable. The rust on sole should come off easily.

It would be a decent plane to learn how to use and maintain, sharpen the blade etc.

The price seems to be high, but I do not know what hand planes go for in your area.

Do not be afraid of cruising the local flea markets to find a rust bucket to restore. You can save some money, but more important you will learn a lot.

I am presently working on a restore of a Stanley-Bailey No 5. I just need to get a couple of parts.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/latest-rust-bucket-planes-46494/


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## tc65

Chuck, FYI, that plane is the equivalent of a Stanley Bailey #5 which is classified as a jack plane, not a jointer. It would be a decent plane to get started with and as it's name implies is a "Jack of all Trades" type plane.

It looks to be in good condition and would only need a little cleaning up on the bottom. However, IMHO it is not worth $50. I would offer him maybe $20 for the plane and maybe go up to $25-30. As I said though that is just one man's opinion. Hopefully others will chime in with their estimate of worth.

_Edit, Dave beat me to the punch. I give a big +1 to searching for a plane to restore. It's a lot easier than you might think and you'll learn a lot about planes by restoring one. Dave and others have some great threads showing step by step restorations._


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## DannyT

i think these are in your area

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/tls/3537027033.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/tls/3554543308.html


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## EricD

Dave Paine said:


> ...This has a upside down "U" for the lateral adjustment lever. Cheaper than the two piece design on the Stanley-Bailey line....http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/latest-rust-bucket-planes-46494/


Starting in 1962, all the USA made Stanley's have the "upside down U".


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## ChuckBarnett

Sooo... the story goes on. I was talking with some folks in my church after a prayer time yesterday and asked one octogenarian if he knew much about planes. He knew a little. I said I'm looking for a little bigger one than the small block plane I have. He said, "I have one I'll give you." !!?!!  I protested somewhat weakly and said I'd love to see it. Today He brought it over. And I rechecked and he said he had two and didn't see himself running both at the same time in each hand. Looks like it is in great shape. It's a No. 5, whatever that means. see photos.


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## knotscott

The Cman looks to be similar size (#5 jack plane), but is a bit pricey at $50.....$30 would be a nice deal IMO. 

That freebie should clean up nicely with some TLC and elbow grease....it can be surprising how well they clean up. As a comparison, here's a before and after I did a few years ago on a Bedrock 605.


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## Dave Paine

+1 that the freebie No 5 will clean up easily. I am not seeing rust, just a patina of old age.

See my "Latest rust bucket" thread in post #2.

Let us know if you need help.


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## Dave Paine

knotscott said:


> The Cman looks to be similar size (#5 jack plane), but is a bit pricey at $50.....$30 would be a nice deal IMO.
> 
> That freebie should clean up nicely with some TLC and elbow grease....it can be surprising how well they clean up. As a comparison, here's a before and after I did a few years ago on a Bedrock 605.


Nice restore on the Bedrock. I like seeing the before and after pictures side by side. :thumbsup:

I love the lines of the flat top Bedrocks.


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## Dave Paine

EricD said:


> Starting in 1962, all the USA made Stanley's have the "upside down U".


Thanks, good to know when I am looking at planes. I have not paid much attention to the "modern" Stanley's. :thumbsup:


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## ChuckBarnett

knotscott said:


> As a comparison, here's a before and after I did a few years ago on a Bedrock 605.


NICE! Pretty much looks new! Now I understand what you all mean by "restore".

--So can anyone tell what this plane is? Manufacturer, date? quality?


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## Woodwart

ChuckBarnett said:


> NICE! Pretty much looks new! Now I understand what you all mean by "restore".
> 
> --So can anyone tell what this plane is? Manufacturer, date? quality?



It appears to be one of many knock-offs of a Stanley #5. If it's been well cared for and the sole is flat and all the moving parts move, it will probably be a good, usable plane. A couple of the planes I have are knock-offs, and they are fine.

I would take that second plane at the price the old gentleman asked  and clean it up some. The other plane is overpriced IMHO, at $50.


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## gideon

THe other plane is overpriced at $50. For $50, you can get a stanley 5 ready to use right away off of ebay or some people on this forum.

The freebie you got looks like an old one. The front tote looks fairly low, like a hot air balloon.

Have fun cleaning and restoring it. One thing I'd recommend, something I did for myself, is with that tote, pick up another plane for parts and put a taller tote on there. I found with the the lower ones that my palm would rest awkwardly and I'd get blisters from it resting on the side of the plane. The taller tote keeps my hand in a better position.


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## Woodwart

If that first plane is a Sears Craftsman, it is not a Stanley either, but a knock off. It could be a very well made knock-off. Everyone copied Stanley Bailey planes.


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## ChuckBarnett

Frogs, Totes... hmmm... gonna hafta get out the dictionary...


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## Dave Paine

ChuckBarnett said:


> Frogs, Totes... hmmm... gonna hafta get out the dictionary...


Patrick Leach has an excellent site documenting the many Stanley hand planes.

This page is for the No 1 - No 9.

Scroll down to the No 3 Smooth plane, about 1/4 of the way down.

There is a diagram which lists the parts to a Stanley-Bailey hand plane.

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm


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## ChuckBarnett

HANDLE! The "Tote" is the Handle! 

I thought, WOW the guy who used this had small hands! Figured to wrap a finger around something to be comfortable. RE: getting a taller one, the iron it too tall as well as parts of the frog??


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## Dave Paine

Your freebie looks to be old. Not enough of the tell tale details in the picture, but older Stanley''s had a smaller adjustment lever knob, about 1in dia, vs later 1 1/4in. They also had smaller knobs on the front.

Stanley later increased the height of the knob, and the knobs started to break due to greater force being applied. So Stanley then added a ring in the casting to support the higher knob.

All of this is in the Supertool link.

If you do replace the knob with a taller one, you will need a taller screw.

In my restores I make the "waist" a little thicker to help prevent the knob from breaking. I also like the look.


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## ChuckBarnett

So I'm not thinking I want to completely restore this plane but I do want to clean it up and all. I've taken it apart and there is a lot of "gunk" and such. I think I'll try the electrolysis method (just saw a youtube video on that), but I think there is enough crud and grime that perhaps I should clean that up first. Not sure how to do that. Thought about dropping the parts into a solvent solution for a day or so. Any ideas?

Total beginner... remember?? 

Thanks,


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## tc65

I'll first blow what I can off with air compressor if you have one. You can then take some MS and a disposable glue brush and scrub away what you can. Brass brush and solvent, wire brush and solvent. Just depends on what tools you have available.


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## Dave Paine

I normally do an initial cleaning to get the dirt/grime/superficial rust.

I use Permetex Fast Orange with Pumice hand cleaner and an old tooth brush. This works very well for the cleaning.

If you do not want to do a full restore, I would not use electrolysis - it will remove the jappaning (the black paint).

EricD has a good thread on using oxalic acid (aka wood bleach) which is less expensive than Evapo-Rust and will not harm the paint.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/oxalic-acid-rust-removal-old-plane-restoration-47268/

FYI, this will leave the metal with a white layer. This is easily removed with wet-dry paper, very fine layer.


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## ChuckBarnett

Thanks Tim!

What is MS?

I love the Time...teacher quip BTW.


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## tc65

Thanks Chuck. MS = mineral spirits.


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## ChuckBarnett

AH! certainly.


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## ChuckBarnett

I am pleased! Here are pics of my efforts to get this freebee plane in good shape. The shaving is off of a 3/4" softwood board edge. Note the broken corners on the iron cap? -is that it's name?

Also, if you look closely, (zoom in) you will see that there are two angles on the cutting edge of the iron. I picked up a iron/chisel sharpening jig with a wheel that rolls over sandpaper, etc. I had the angle too sharp to begin with and figured the thing out and adjusted it. I thought that the leading edge angle was the critical issue and in time, I could fix the whole edge. ??

Thank you all!


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## Dave Paine

You may want to spend some time getting to know your plane.

This is a Record site, but the design is the same as the Stanley Bailey like you have.

http://www.recordhandplanes.com/parts-and-sizes.html

I cannot tell from the pictures how far the cap iron is set back from the edge of the blade.

You want this to be close perhaps 1/32in - 1/64in so that the cap iron, also called the chipbreaker does its job of pushing the wood up and breaking the chips. This setting can make a big difference in performance, especially with hard woods.

Also if you get shavings trapped under the cap iron, it is worth sanding the edge of the cap iron flat so that you get no gap between cap iron and the blade.

The restore is looking good. Nice cleanup.


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## EricD

And so the addiction begins :smile: Nice work, Chuck!


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## preacherman

Looks like that freebie cleaned up nice. Oh yea listen to these guys about this being addictive. Hand planes are alot of fun!


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## ChuckBarnett

Pretty pumped about learning more about planing, etc.! After researching, I built a shooting board to clean up that 22 1/2 degree angle for the seat sections of the Franklin chair (1st project...). See photo). Now to get busy and build a couple more to do square edges and end grains... 

Thank you all for your help and patience! :yes:

PS - I reset the 'chip breaker'(?) to be within 1/16" of the edge of the blade. Thanks again for the advice. 

Chuck Barnett


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## Dave Paine

Thanks for the update. Happy to see you are finding out how useful hand planes can be in your projects. :thumbsup:


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## ChuckBarnett

So I just discovered that all planes are not necessarily square with regard to the sole and side!  I built a shooting board to clean up edges of red oak cut on a poor quality saw and after noticing that the old plane above didn't sit as solidly on the board as I would like, I began looking at things. Using a cheap tri square I found that the sole to side angle isn't 90. I found this concern referenced as a side note in a post on another wood worker forum. I also wondered if squares and such aren't created equal either and discovered that people spend good money on "engineer squares" to really know what square is.

So... this stuff ain't easy! Not just any ol' plane; not just any ol' square... Not sure WHAT plane or square, but gotta find something that works.

Phew...


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## Dave Paine

ChuckBarnett said:


> So I just discovered that all planes are not necessarily square with regard to the sole and side!  I built a shooting board to clean up edges of red oak cut on a poor quality saw and after noticing that the old plane above didn't sit as solidly on the board as I would like, I began looking at things. Using a cheap tri square I found that the sole to side angle isn't 90. I found this concern referenced as a side note in a post on another wood worker forum. I also wondered if squares and such aren't created equal either and discovered that people spend good money on "engineer squares" to really know what square is.
> 
> So... this stuff ain't easy! Not just any ol' plane; not just any ol' square... Not sure WHAT plane or square, but gotta find something that works.
> 
> Phew...


Sad to say, I found this out some time ago, and like you, it was only after I made a shooting board and then found the edges of the wood were not square.

I have a reference metal 90 deg square which is accurate. An inexpensive option are the plastic drafting/engineering squares.

The hand plane I was using at the time was a Record N0.5 purchased in the late 90's. I am mostly left handed so I had the Record on its right side.

After finding the wood edge was not square, I checked the Record and found the right side was slightly off, but the left side was square.

I note my Lee Valley new planes are machined with square sides. I now use my low angle smoother with the shooting board.

As I look at the hand planes I have restored, most if not all do not have accurately machined sides.

So you either need to lap the side of the plane to be square, tweak the shooting board to compensate, or get another plane which has square sides.

I know your frustration. Been there a number of years earlier. :blink:


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## railaw

To check your square, put it against a straight side or a table eg and draw a line with a pencil. Flip the square over and draw another line right next to the first. If they are parallel then the square is square. That may not be accurate enough for machinists work but I expect it will be fine for 99% of woodwork.


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