# Black Walnut log price



## firefighteremt153

I ran across A guy who had a Walnut tree fall down from a recent storm and he is selling the wood. He hasn't told me a price for any of it yet but I'm going to drive over and look at it later tonight. One of the logs is 28" on the small side and 8 1/2 ' long. It is an urban log and he assures me the log is clean. Can anyone tell me roughly what this log might be worth on the average? Thanks in advance..


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## Daren

firefighteremt153 said:


> One of the logs is 28" on the small side and 8 1/2 ' long. It is an urban log and he assures me the log is clean. Can anyone tell me roughly what this log might be worth on the average?


:laughing: wanna bet ? I have been given that assurance 1000's of times....3-4 of them where clean :laughing:. It doesn't matter, a few nails are not a deal breaker, one plumb full of junk is another, you just bought something unmillable. Using the Doyle log volume scale there is about 300 bft there. If it is a good one a fair price to start would be $.60 bft = $180

If a guy is getting into log buying/selling there is a page on my website that has helped some understand how things like this work. http://nelsonwoodworks.biz/pb/wp_9ed660e8/wp_9ed660e8.html


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## firefighteremt153

Thanks Daren, I'm going to look at it in an hour or so and I'll let ya know the outcome.


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## Daren

Pictures would be cool.


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## firefighteremt153

Hey Daren, I don't have any pics but I did go and look at the logs. I am buying 2 of the logs tomorrow. One log is 20" on the small end and the other is 24" on the small and both right at 9'. He is gonna sell both of them to me for 140.00 and throw in 2 sycamore logs roughly around the same size as the walnut and also give me as much walnut under 10" diameter by around 8-14' long that I want. It sounds like a pretty good deal to me but im no expert. He also has plenty of ash for free if I want it. Ive never worked with any ash and not sure if it's worth the trouble. Any thoughts?


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## Daren

firefighteremt153 said:


> . I am buying 2 of the logs tomorrow. One log is 20" on the small end and the other is 24" on the small and both right at 9'. He is gonna sell both of them to me for 140.00 and throw in 2 sycamore logs roughly around the same size as the walnut and also give me as much walnut under 10" diameter by around 8-14' long that I want. It sounds like a pretty good deal to me but im no expert. He also has plenty of ash for free if I want it. Ive never worked with any ash and not sure if it's worth the trouble. Any thoughts?


Buy the walnut at that price, for sure take the free sycamore. The little walnut is stuff he is trying to "clean up", that is your call it will not yield much lumber but makes good firewood if nothing else and the guy was fair on the other logs (but don't get stuck doing "yard work", picking up limbs). Ash is great wood, even smaller logs, take all you can get.


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## dirtclod

Someone gave us a load of small logs. We cut some on the mill and were going to make all the rest into firewood but there was a small ash that stood out. It was 12' long, only a few very small knots, and very straight. I made a nice heart-centered beam. I use beams like that to support lumber stacks during drying and to weigh them down. And when their numbers increase will eventually sell them.









Millers generally don't like small logs. Their setup times equal a larger higher yield log. Some offer a "squaring" charge for making post for fences and buildings that is a better deal than their board foot charges.

But the price of walnut usually justifies using smaller logs. If they're 8" inside the bark at the small end you might break even. Ask the sawmill operator what he thinks. For my own consumption I'll mill small walnut - but that's considering the small stuff is free and I'm only out the cost of fuel, blades, wear on me and the mill, etc..


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## firefighteremt153

Well I bought the walnut logs last night and brought them home. Man I forgot how much work it is getting those things on a trailer with just a chain and come-a-long. I was going to get the 2 sycamore logs and some ash and smaller dia walnut logs but my come-a-long operater (me) was beat, so I'm going to go back this next week and get the rest. I'm thinking about buying a 3000 lb winch to attatch to my trailer, anyone have any thoughts on that or other methods of getting logs on trailers? I'll post some pics of the walnut later when i get out and about.


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## Daren

firefighteremt153 said:


> Man I forgot how much work it is getting those things on a trailer with just a chain and come-a-long.
> 
> I'm thinking about buying a 3000 lb winch to attatch to my trailer, anyone have any thoughts on that or other methods of getting logs on trailers?


:laughing: Suckers are heavy aren't they. What kinda trailer do you have ? The easiest way (if you can) is parbuckle them on from the side. A few sturdy timbers or similar for a ramp. Run the winch cable over and around the log and the winch will roll it up the ramp. Follow me ? Dragging them on with a winch can be done, but you are going to need a bigger winch...here is an idea that is cheaper than the winch you would need (and a heck of alot less work) Call around and see if any "towing service", like car towing, have one of those tilt/roll on bed wreckers. This sounds nuts but I have found a local guy who fetches logs for me that way if I am in a bind. If someone calls from a big town 30 miles away (the only big town around) with a free log he will go get the log (logs) for $75 if it is a trip just for the logs. If he is going up there with a car and does not have anything to haul back he will do it for $60 to keep from coming home empty. I gladly pay that, saves me tons of work/gas. I can be home milling/making money and he just dumps the logs in the yard. Most of my logs are delivered anyway, I don't fetch many.

If you want I can go more into parbuckling and other ways to winch load. I usually try to avoid that much work if I can, but have done my fair share of it none the less.


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## firefighteremt153

Hey Daren, I have an 8'+6' home made job with 18" side rails on it but yesterday I used a buddys 12' landscape trailer b/c it had a ramp on the back. I thought the ramp would make it easier for loading. We put some short small logs under the logs to help them roll up easier but that still beat us down pretty bad. So I was thinking about buying a winch and using the same method but let the winch do the work. Im interested in the parbuckling method. Can you tell me more about that?


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## firefighteremt153

Here are the logs I picked up last night and Daren here is a pic of my trailer.


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## Daren

firefighteremt153 said:


> Im interested in the parbuckling method. Can you tell me more about that?


*PERSONAL DISCLAIMER: *This is not something everyone should try. Many men have been badly hurt (or worse :icon_sad loading logs without the proper equipment and experience. What I am suggesting here can be done, but please be careful.

Parbuckling won't really work well with a high sided trailer, you need a flat trailer. This very crude sketch is one way guys do it (the attached picture is the way *I* load logs, a skidsteer with pallet forks) Of course upon posting I see the pictures are out of order.
I will try to explain this the best I can. The winch line is ran through the snatchblock, over and back under the log and attached to the fixed anchor point. I have done this just a couple times and found you get your cable stuck under the log on the trailer once it is loaded. I used a chain hooked to the fixed point so that once the log was on the trailer it may be laying on the chain but you can unhook that and have your winch cable free. It is kinda an elaborate setup for just a few logs like you are probably going to haul.

I good winch will drag them on the end. Take a bunch of 2x's with you to get the log up out of the dirt (the ends dragging in makes for hard pulling) if you don't have small logs like you mentioned for rollers. Those walnuts on the trailer weigh 1000 lbs for the small one and 1500 lbs for the other one. The sycamore will weigh about the same.

Another way to load from the side without a winch is the other crude sketch. Run the cable around the log and roll it up the ramps with the truck.

Heck even 2 guys with peavies (log peavey) and long ramps (to make for a lesser incline) can hand load a trailer. I have done that too. But you have to work together, one guy holds the load while the other gets a new bite for the next push...again potentially dangerous, scratch that, positively dangerous.


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## firefighteremt153

Daren, what do you think of this idea. If I hooked up a winch to my trailer, put a couple logs on the side to make a ramp and a couple shorter ramps inside the trailer, have some 2+s laying across the trailer to keep a gap to remove the cable and then just stayed away from the trailer as they rolled inside of it?


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## Daren

firefighteremt153 said:


> Daren, what do you think of this idea.


It's your trailer . Just be careful.


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## Daren

This little buggy is what I fetch one or 2 with. (95% of my logs are delivered) If I have a bunch I load up the skidsteer. For one or 2 in a yard this works good, it's an old propane tank hauler I found in the weeds and welded the lifting arch on.
A winch hooks on the tongue. The cable goes up over the arch (roller on the top of the arch) and hooks to the end of the log. The winch picks the end of the log up onto the back of the buggy. I unhook the cable and rehook it to just drag them straight on. There is a roller on the back of the buggy floor too to help them move. The cedars in the picture are 22"X10' (if I remember right)


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## dirtclod

Daren, I'm no expert. But please allow me to to expand on the parbuckling concept. 



> Quick definitions (*parbuckle*)
> 
> 
> (_n._) A double sling made of a single rope, for slinging a cask, gun, etc.
> (_n._) A kind of purchase for hoisting or lowering a cylindrical burden, as a cask. The middle of a long rope is made fast aloft, and both parts are looped around the object, which rests in the loops, and rolls in them as the ends are hauled up or payed out.
> (_v. t._) To hoist or lower by means of a parbuckle.
> 
> (This definition is from the 1913 Webster's Dictionary and may be outdated.)


I couldn't upload my poor drawings (they were too big) so I'll do my best to clarify. The cable that goes from the truck through the snatch block *should terminate near the top of the log*. 

A second cable or chain is attached to the trailer on both corners on the opposite side of the trailer from the log. Grab the chain in the middle and pull the slack across the top of the trailer, down the ramp(s), under the log (roughly at its mid point). and up to the top of the log. There should be enough slack to reach this point* and no more*. This chain forms a 2-point sling that will stablize the log while it's being hoisted. The cable from the snatch block is then connected to the chain at the top of the log.

I've done the single point sling many times, but a 2-point (true parbuckle) is much safer.

firefighteremt153 - I've seen a DIY A-frame attachment that you attach to the back of trailers such as yours for ez loading of logs. With it, a 3000lb winch should be able to easily hoist logs up on your trailer heavier than it can handle. I can explain it if you're interested.


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## Daren

dirtclod said:


> Daren, I'm no expert..


Me neither, just throwing ideas out there. Maybe bad ones ?


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## smanfre

I haul lots of logs in my trailer, and I load them in the same manner you did firefighteremt153. The only diference is I use a cheap $40 winch I bought from harborfreight and four or five 4' 3/4 pipes. The winch is slow like 10' a minute but it works. When I bought it I figured I had nothing to lose if it didn't do the job but it hasn't let me down yet. To raise the leading edge of the log to pull it on the trailer i took (2) 3' 2"x2" .25 with a piece of 3/4 steel pipe welded at the end I made the angle iron fit in the ledge where my ramps normally go. I use a hydrolic jack to lift my gadget. a little time consuming but not back breaking. I'll upload picks if you want.


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## firefighteremt153

smanfre and dirtclot, i would love to hear/see more about your ideas. I actually bought a 3000 lb winch yesterday from HF and I was going to try to figure something out on it today if I had some down time at work.


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## dirtclod

Parbuckling a log up the side of a trailer:


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## firefighteremt153

Ok so one of the Fire Chiefs that work for my dept has a bunch of land and several trees fell after a storm and he decided to by a mill rather than cut them to firewood. He has agreed to mill my logs for me. Me, the Chief and a fellow FF went back to where I purchased the large walnut logs yesterday to get some of the other Free logs the guy was offering. Well the guy told me to take anything I wanted b/c he was done selling logs and was gonna start cutting for firewood. With that said, we went and got the Chiefs tractor and two trailors and loaded up 4 trailers worth of free logs. In the end, we got 32 logs, roughly 18-19 black walnuts with the smallest being around 10" diameter, maybe around 5-6 very large sycamore logs average of 25-26" diameter, and the rest is ash I think but Im not positive, just what we were told.

Chief has had his mill (Hudson Band mill 28") for about a week now and has played around with some pine and gum logs and has flat sawn them pretty good I suppose. My question to yall ("Clearing throat right now" Daren) is there some literature that I could read to help us with reading the logs in order to yield the nicest boards possible? Here's some pics of our logs from yesterday. The 3rd pic is what we think is ash?


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## Daren

The 3rd is an ash. No problems there, just make a square and start sawing lumber. Make a couple cuts on each side to get from round to square, those boards will have bark on the edges that gets trimmed off to make a smaller straight board. Bummer the guy milling has so little experience, I would 1/4 saw the sycamore (picture below of what that looks like, bottom one). Flat sawn it ok wood, but nothing special really. Those smaller walnut logs look tough, _way_ more white sapwood than I see around here (limbs ?). Since I assume you have no way to steam the walnut to even out the color you are going to have alot of "odd" wood or alot of waste just milling the dark heart. I would just flitch saw a couple that have the heavy sap for a novelty like the other picture attached. I would saw that stuff thicker than the final intended use, from my experience with that much sap wood it was a "fast grower" and will not want to dry flat.

I honestly don't know any literature sources for you to study, maybe someone else can help out there ? I just learned the hard way I guess you could say, got my mill-got some logs-tore into them. I might have been able to do better on a few starting out, but this is not really rocket science. If a guy is familiar with wood and knows what he wants the lumber to look like the mill will take care of that.

In case you missed where arkyrick asked about 1/4 sawing and I _tried_ to explain here it is http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4709&page=2
Those sycamore are well worth the extra effort.


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## firefighteremt153

Daren, yes the smaller walnut is limbs, we were basically just going to use those as trial and error logs. I was planning on just flitch sawing the walnut but if you know a better way than Im open for suggestions. The sycamore is going to be 1/4 sawn. We're gonna practice on some less desirable logs until we get it figured out. Any pointers? When you say stemaing the wood, what exactly do you mean by it and how would one do it?


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## Daren

Sounds like a plan, practice on the lesser logs (shoot the price was right even if you goof a couple up). Flitch sawing is ok. You know how to sticker and air dry lumber right ?

As far as steaming walnut. I don't like it. It is done alot commercially. The steaming basically takes the color from the heart and dyes the white part. Ok, so you get darker sapwood...but IMO it ruins the color of the heartwood. Makes it bland and boring because it mellows the subtly contrasting colors. Illinois walnut can have killer colors, not just brown/black but streaks of all colors. Some think that is a good thing, they argue it makes for more consistent color for making a project. I think that is a cop out and sales gimmick. I would never steam walnut, I should have not even brought it up.


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## firefighteremt153

I think im good with the drying aspect. Got some Cherry drying right now since feb and it's doing really well, about 18% MC the last time I checked. I think im gonna stay away from the steam and just be happy with what Mother nature gives me. Would you happen to have a link to TexasTimbers 1/4 sawing tutorial?


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## dirtclod

I agree with all Daren said: Flat-saw the larger walnut, q-saw the sycamore, flat-saw the ash (the double eye would interfer with good q-sawing results), and use the limbs for practice.

Here's a must-read for new millers: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/simplified_procedure_grade_lumber.pdf

Another q-sawing link: http://www.scottbanbury.com/quartersawing.html

If you don't have any, I would cut a lot of the ash into stickers. You're going to need a lot of them. Get that log on the mill first. Have your plan for/and drying area ready before you start.


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## Daren

firefighteremt153 said:


> Would you happen to have a link to TexasTimbers 1/4 sawing tutorial?


That one dirtclod linked is just as good (I was just trying to rattle TT's cage, ain't heard from him for awhile) I know Scott Banbury too, have for 5 years (?) He is another urban logger. I almost linked his site in another discussion here where parbuckling was brought up, he does alot of that.


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## firefighteremt153

Thanks for the all the help Daren & Dirtclod, I think with the info I have found on here from you guys and some practice logs we might be able to figure this 1/4 sawing out. I hope!


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## roberthathaway7

any idea of how heavy an oak (not sure what kind) is that measures 28" and the short and and has almost no taper at all, but is 13 ft long?


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## Daren

Red oak ~ 3400 lbs. White oak ~3600 lbs










.


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## beelzerob

roberthathaway7 said:


> any idea of how heavy an oak (not sure what kind) is that measures 28" and the short and and has almost no taper at all, but is 13 ft long?


I had to answer that question recently when I was planning to take some logs to be milled. I'm glad I thought to ask because I would have put on twice the trailer's capacity if I hadn't.

google brought up a nice log weight calculator, which I dunno how accurate it is, but it probably saved us a trailer and wrecked truck.
:shifty:

And a quick check shows it within 7 lbs of Darrens estimates....so I'd call it pretty accurate.


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## Daren

That is the calculator I use...I should have linked it.


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## beelzerob

Heh..sorry Darren, I didn't mean to have you lose your superstar status for being able to guesstimate log weight accurately. I didn't think you used the same tools as us mortals. :laughing:


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