# Finishing oak and oak plywood



## The Bald Guy (Apr 10, 2009)

I've built a back bar for the game room and I used oak plywood for most of it, then I used solid oak to finish off the face frames. On several TEST pieces of different stains i can't get the two to meet up with a uniform color. How do I go about this. I was going to stain it then poly over the top.


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I have not used a lot of oak plywood (a desk I recovered in oak and a book shelf) but I am sitting here looking at both. I had no problems with the staining of either and did nothing special. I just used regular MinWax stains. I sanded, stained and then sprayed with lacquer.

Sorry, I have no idea of why you are having a problem.

George


----------



## 43longtime (Oct 15, 2008)

I have made lots of stuff from oak plywood with solid oak faces and never had this problem before. What is the color difference is it a lot different? What stain are you using, you raging it on, brushing it on, or spraying it on?


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The Bald Guy said:


> I've built a back bar for the game room and I used oak plywood for most of it, then I used solid oak to finish off the face frames. On several TEST pieces of different stains i can't get the two to meet up with a uniform color. How do I go about this. I was going to stain it then poly over the top.



The difference you might be experiencing is the difference in the cut of the lumber for the solid wood, and the type of cut for the veneer face of the Oak plywood. If you purchased the plywood at a home center, it's likely that it's a rotary cut veneer face.

A hardwoods supplier that sells different types of Oak plywood may carry a "plain sliced" veneer face which would look very much like the Oak lumber. Of course, if the lumber is quarter sawn, it too will look different.

As for just matching color, you could mix up sample stains to try to tone one of the two up or down in shades of color. The basic differential in the grain won't come close. In mixing stains, use cooking measuring spoons to keep track of your mix ratios, so if you do get a winner, you can mix up a larger batch.


----------



## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> The difference you might be experiencing is the difference in the cut of the lumber for the solid wood, and the type of cut for the veneer face of the Oak plywood. If you purchased the plywood at a home center, it's likely that it's a rotary cut veneer face.


 
I've seen what you mean by rotary cut on imported plywood - of course, I didn't see it until after the finish was completed. I also wonder if there's a significant difference between Chinese oak and American oak. The oak plywood at Home Depot is imported from China. I have no idea what kind of oak they have in China - would it take stain differently than American oak?


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Geoguy said:


> I've seen what you mean by rotary cut on imported plywood - of course, I didn't see it until after the finish was completed. I also wonder if there's a significant difference between Chinese oak and American oak. The oak plywood at Home Depot is imported from China. I have no idea what kind of oak they have in China - would it take stain differently than American oak?



"Chinese plywood" may not be from home grown wood sources. I don't have the statistics in my head, but a great majority of the wood for oriental plywood could come from outside sources...like US, Canada, South America. Their manufacturing costs may warrant bringing in the wood sources for the veneers.

As for making rotary cut plywood versus plain sliced, there is greater redemption in the rotary process, and less expensive to make.


----------



## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

The first lesson they teach you when you go to professional wood finisher school is that you don't get your color from a stain only. That is why amateur finishers have such a problem with color. They pick up a can of minwax stain wipe it on and off (usually without sanding properly) and wonder why everything is a different color. 

A pro finish schedule will start with a sprayed dye stain, then a wash coat of sealer, possibly a wipe on stain over the wash coat, a full coat of sealer, then a glaze (which is just a wiping stain applied over a sealer, (does NOT work well with poly or varnish topcoats due to adhesion problems. That is why they invented Poly shades) and finally a shading stain which is an non grain raising dye mixed in with a little topcoat or sealer and sprayed on to even out the color and blend in any un-even areas.

Many of these techniques can only be used if you are spraying, however some can be used in a brush or rag applied finish. The point being that the color is built in layers not one step. So with the first stain the darker wood will be the final color and the next steps will be applied to the light areas only, slowly evening the color out until everything matches nicely. 

The smartest thing someone can do who would like to learn to finish wood is to first learn to spray. Shellac is an excellent finish to learn with, it is a solvent release coating which means each coat melts into the previous coat making it perfect for glazing. It also is alcohol based which means NGR dye stains will mix right in for shading. There are also many WB coatings these days that are much safer as far as flammability is concerned (They are still toxic and a respirator should be worn at ALL times)

You can do a beautiful glazed finish with shellac, a quality blender brush (or a decent bristle brush like Purdy) and some artist oil colors and mineral spirits.


----------



## edp (May 25, 2007)

Rick Mosher said:


> The first lesson they teach you when you go to professional wood finisher school is that you don't get your color from a stain only. That is why amateur finishers have such a problem with color. They pick up a can of minwax stain wipe it on and off (usually without sanding properly) and wonder why everything is a different color.
> 
> A pro finish schedule will start with a sprayed dye stain, then a wash coat of sealer, possibly a wipe on stain over the wash coat, a full coat of sealer, then a glaze (which is just a wiping stain applied over a sealer, (does NOT work well with poly or varnish topcoats due to adhesion problems. That is why they invented Poly shades) and finally a shading stain which is an non grain raising dye mixed in with a little topcoat or sealer and sprayed on to even out the color and blend in any un-even areas.
> 
> ...


I absolutely mean you no disrespect when I say, that was inspiring. I would also like to extend an open invitation to my shop should you ever feel inclined to demonstrate these techniques and share your knowledge. I can't see how I could fail to benefit from that and I am sure we could arrive at mutually amicable terms.

Ed


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

edp said:


> I absolutely mean you no disrespect when I say, that was inspiring. I would also like to extend an open invitation to my shop should you ever feel inclined to demonstrate these techniques and share your knowledge. I can't see how I could fail to benefit from that and I am sure we could arrive at mutually amicable terms.
> 
> Ed



That would be an event worth attending. I would gladly offer my services as a referee.


----------



## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Ed, You and I are not that far apart. I work at Paul Downs Cabinetmakers in Bridgeport, PA and am there every day finishing conference tables and all kinds of custom furniture. Send me an email and let me know when you're coming and I would be glad to talk shop.
Cabinetman, you are welcome also though it may be quite a drive from South Florida. By the way I just moved up from Hollywood FL myself. I used to work at Hollywood Woodworks down that way...

http://www.pauldowns.com/index.asp


----------



## edp (May 25, 2007)

*Thanks for the invitation*

and the day might actually come when I take you up on it.

Best Regards,
Ed Peters


----------

