# Bandsaw versus table saw AND planer?



## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

Some of you know I am trying to get back into woodworking after a number of years off, and both machine size and portability are important because of my living circumstances.

I have been thinking of getting just 5 machines:

- Sawstop Jobsite table saw (because I like to design and make children's wooden toys with lots of compound angle cuts)

- DeWalt 734 planer (because it is both smaller and lighter than the 735, and because I use exotic woods that come only unplaned)

- A benchtop drill press (because I use a lot of dowels as both joining devices and as wheels and axles)

- A combination belt / disc sander (because I need to smooth surfaces and soften angles)

- A 1 ton arbor press (because I need to press dowel wheels onto dowel axles, and dowels into mating parts, and a rubber hammer is too crude for precise depth control :smile: )

But, the more I read about bandsaws, the more I like about them:

- Much safer to use, especially when cutting very small hardwood component pieces, since no kickback and you can safely hand-hold parts being cut much closer to a bandsaw blade than to a table saw blade

- Much less need for jigs, clamping setups, and slide tables

- The obvious ability to add curves to my designs

- The ability to do tapered components very easily

- The ability to rip and crosscut much thicker pieces than a table saw can

- The ability to do resawing, and to do it safely

- Much less electrical supply power needed - because of the dramatically thinner blade, a 15 amp circuit gives more than sufficient power

- It's WAY quieter than a tablesaw, allowing me far more flexibility in where I place it and when I operate it

But a few questions and issues:

1. Is there anything that the table saw does notably better than the bandsaw, other than being more practically portable? (Assuming each are set up with the correct blade and the operator has acquired the necessary skills)

2. Can the combination of a bandsaw plus belt sander, potentially eliminate the need for the planer? Note that I NEVER need to do glued up joints - each component of my toys is cut as one solid wood piece, and control of thickness never has to be better than about a 32nd of an inch. The elimination of the planer would give me several benefits:

- The bandsaw might be lighter and smaller than the COMBINATION of SawStop plus DeWalt planer, making the entire "shop" smaller and lighter to move

- The bandsaw would be far quieter, and therefore more often usable, than the combination of SawStop plus DeWalt planer

- The bandsaw would generate a lot less sawdust than the combination of table saw and planer

- I could cut, versus plane, oversize pieces to desired thickness, saving some material, which on exotic woods could save appreciable money in some cases

3. GOOD bandsaws apparently need to have blade wheels that are at least 14 inches in diameter and a strong frame, in order to tension blades enough to ensure no deflection under heavy cutting loads, while avoiding damaging the blades or the bandsaw with the necessary psi loads. This makes good bandsaws both (a) large and (b) heavy (MUCH heavier and overall larger than the SawStop Jobsite saw). Even the modest Delta 14" weighs about 165 lb and is about 5-2/3 feet high. The few "benchtop" bandsaws I have found online all get lots of very critical commentary from experienced serious users. I can't seem to find a really high quality but compact bandsaw. I figured surely the Germans, or Austrians, or Italians make at least SOME lighter and more compact bandsaws (maybe with aluminum but ribbed and boxed frames and wheels, etc), but so far, it doesn't look like it. Making any of the individual machines in my portable shop too heavy or too unwieldingly tall makes the shop that much less portable.

Comments and advice?

Jim G


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*bandsaws are very much under rated*

Just like other machines size does matter. Mine range from a 10" Craftsman, 2 - 14" Craftsmans and one 18" MinMax. Why so many? I've always have at least one starting with a 12 " Craftsman about 30 years ago.. When I sold that one, I got the 18" Min Max and with the proper blade it will do it all. BUT I don't like changing blades so when I saw the 14" on sale at Sears for under $500.00 I bought it. Then there was another in like new condition on Craig's List for $250.00, so I bouhght that one. They each have a different type of blade. Then, I thought my 8 yr old son would like to get into woodworking, so I bought him the 10" BUT he didn't take to it, so now I own it.

It is the only one I would consider "portable" and it ain't that light either. The table and the motor are the heavy pieces, but the motor on the Craftsmans are not easiiy removed, so you are left with taking off the table to make it lighter.

OK, how versatile are they? Quite! They can make all the cuts you will need for smaller toys and such, but you may need to sand the surfaces to eliminate the saw marks. A precision bandsaw will have zero side flutter and that makes for a smoother surface. A blade with less "set" to the teeth will make for a smoother surface BUT will cut slower.

I can not recommend a particular saw for your specific needs as they would all be heavier than I think you would want. A 2 wheel hand cart/truck would make moving a 14" saw so much easier that it may just be the answer. Here I am unloading a new 19" Grizzly bandsaw and using the hand truck to tip it over far enough to get it under a 6' 8" door opening. It weighed 450 lbs:


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

Thanks WoodnThings. I DO have a hand cart! 

1. Given my needs, what bandsaw (blade wheel) size could meet my needs? Would a 14" work or not? I can actually spend more money than I can space and weight, to get an acceptable quality machine.

2. In your experienced opinion, is the bandsaw a good idea versus the SawStop Jobsite table saw and DeWalt planer alternative?

Jim G


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would have to disagree with a bandsaw being drastically quieter. A bandsaw can't take the place of a planer.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

JimGnitecki said:


> Thanks WoodnThings. I DO have a hand cart!
> 
> 1. Given my needs, what bandsaw (blade wheel) size could meet my needs? Would a 14" work or not? I can actually spend more money than I can space and weight, to get an acceptable quality machine.
> 
> ...



There's a reason that some woodworkers have several of the same machine, some in different sizes. There's a also a reason that we have at least one of each type.

Each machine has it's own specialty ... sawing, resawing, planing, jointing, routing etc. Sawing straight lines vs sawing curves vs sawing 8" thick material don't necessarily suit one machine, BUT the bandsaw will do that much where a table saw can not.. What you are trying to do it is understandable, but maybe not possible.* Light weight and woodworking machines really don't go together. *


Craftsman made a 12" version and possibly Rikon that would be perfect, but you may have to find a used one:








http://lumberjocks.com/topics/64635



If I were to pick a bandsaw for you I would choose this one:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Bandsaw-2-HP/G0513
If and when you ever want to get into more serious woodworking like making furniture, you will be all set and not need to upgrade. This one has a welded frame and would be easier to load on a hand truck to move than a separate cast frame and stand. We are talking about 300 lbs here though. Even their lighter saws come in at 247 lbs:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-Deluxe-Bandsaw-Anniversary-Edition/G0555LANV
To see the versatility of the bandsaw check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLIHu_49tmc


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I don't know what size your shop is, but I have all of my tools in a one car garage which also has a washer/dryer, hot water heater and storage shelving.

Everything except the work bench is on mobile carts or bases. I move them around as needed. The 3hp Grizzly 1023RLW doesn't get moved either, even though it sits on a mobile base.

So, I have a table saw, Drill press, band saw, planer, drum sander, a 6 inch joiner, and two mobile work stations, and still have enough room to build cabinets and other projects. 

I am not a professional, just retired (chemical plant operator) and enjoy building all sorts of stuff.

I can build just about anything that comes my way.
It can be done. 
Hope this helps.
Mike


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

As much as I love my bandsaw, I cant see it replacing my table saw as the main fixture in my shop. The table saw is louder, sure, but its also more versatile in my opinion. A bandsaw is limited in the type of cuts it can make, in that it can only do rip cuts or cross cuts up to its throat depth. A table saw, admittedly, can't cut curves or resaw stock quite as tall, but makes up with it in being able to make non-through cuts, like a dado, as well as having no real limit on the size of stock it can cut beyond height. What I mean by that is I could take a table saw and cut a 24 foot 2x4 into 2 12 foot lengths, but couldn't do that with a bandsaw. 

Again, I'm not hating on the bandsaw. I love mine and it gets used nearly as much as the table saw does, and I think any well equipped shop should have one. I do also realize that there are people out there who do manage to get on with just a bandsaw, that's just not my style. 

Oh, and I wouldn't give up my planer for anything, it and the table saw are my most used tools. Beyond thicknessing, its also invaluable for surface finishing. Keeps the blades sharp and you end up with a board that comes out perfect, no sanding necessary, and working with precisely dimensioned stock is an absolute joy


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Fwiw, I have a PM66 table saw with extension table, PM54a 6" jointer, Delta DJ-15 jointer, 8' Oliver lathe, SuperMax 19-38 drum sander, Delta 24" scroll saw, Boice-Crane 15" floor model drill press, DeWALT 12" miter saw, DeWALT 6x48 with 10" disc sander, DeWALT 733 planer, free standing overarm router, Laguna 14 SUV bandsaw, air compressor, separate router table, three wood racks, shop vac, two workbenches, rolling tool chest, and a very well setup and tuned *1950 King-Seeley 12" bandsaw* in a two-car garage. And I have room to move around. To be accurate, though, the Delta jointer and Oliver lathe are not being used and I stack stuff on them.

I mention all that not to boast about what I've got or how it's packed in but to emphasize that *the single most used tool in my shop is my 12" bandsaw - period*. Now this would not work if I worked in sheet goods or cabinets or large pieces of furniture. I'm building acoustic guitars along with the occasional small items like cutting boards, exotic wood boxes, ornaments for Christmas, etc. It's just a hobby for me but it's a serious hobby! :thumbsup:

Everybody works differently and when I go to the bandsaw someone else might go to the table saw - that's fine, too. And I would not be able to function without the table saw or jointer or the other tools, or at least I wouldn't want to try.

Obviously, ymmv


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

epicfail48 said:


> As much as I love my bandsaw, I cant see it replacing my table saw as the main fixture in my shop. The table saw is louder, sure, but its also more versatile in my opinion. A bandsaw is limited in the type of cuts it can make, in that it can only do rip cuts or cross cuts up to its throat depth. A table saw, admittedly, can't cut curves or resaw stock quite as tall, but makes up with it in being able to make non-through cuts, like a dado, as well as having no real limit on the size of stock it can cut beyond height. What I mean by that is I could take a table saw and cut a 24 foot 2x4 into 2 12 foot lengths, but couldn't do that with a bandsaw.
> 
> Again, I'm not hating on the bandsaw. I love mine and it gets used nearly as much as the table saw does, and I think any well equipped shop should have one. I do also realize that there are people out there who do manage to get on with just a bandsaw, that's just not my style.
> 
> Oh, and I wouldn't give up my planer for anything, it and the table saw are my most used tools. Beyond thicknessing, its also invaluable for surface finishing. Keeps the blades sharp and you end up with a board that comes out perfect, no sanding necessary, and working with precisely dimensioned stock is an absolute joy


Good points. Thanks! But remember, I am making small children's toys, so the bandsaw limitations on length of individual pieces for crosscuts and widths of stock being ripped don't apply.My LONGEST individual pieces are cut to under 12" and most are far smaller than that (often 2 or 3 inches long and a significant number at about 8" long). Whether using a bandsaw or a table saw, I'd have to rough cut long boards into 3 or 4 foot pieces to be able to handle them through a machine in my workspace, but then I also would buy a lot of my exotic wood in short lengths that the local specialty lumber dealer sells as "cutoffs" (he seems to have a semi-continuous supply of exotic wood pieces that are 5 foot or shorter, with discounted prices).

Jim G


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

All: Keep in mind that I KNOW I cannot be "efficient" with a compact and portable shop, nor can I get the absolute best results that you can in a well equipped shop that has a "specialist" machine for every individual need, but I don't NEED the efficiency (it's purely a satisfying hobby) nor the perfection (robust and mineral-oil-"finished" children's toys are not fine furniture with fine finishes that emphasize every wood surface imperfection). I am trying to see if it is feasible and worthwhile to just try to do the best I can given the space and portability constraints. Note that cost is NOT a severe limitation. I can afford to pay more for superior quality in a machine that also offers compactness and light weight!

I DO want to enjoy using whatever equipment I end up getting, which is why I am not even looking at cheap machines.

Jim G


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

JimGnitecki said:


> Good points. Thanks! But remember, I am making small children's toys, so the bandsaw limitations on length of individual pieces for crosscuts and widths of stock being ripped don't apply.My LONGEST individual pieces are cut to under 12" and most are far smaller than that (often 2 or 3 inches long and a significant number at about 8" long). Whether using a bandsaw or a table saw, I'd have to rough cut long boards into 3 or 4 foot pieces to be able to handle them through a machine in my workspace, but then I also would buy a lot of my exotic wood in short lengths that the local specialty lumber dealer sells as "cutoffs" (he seems to have a semi-continuous supply of exotic wood pieces that are 5 foot or shorter, with discounted prices).
> 
> Jim G


Sounds like youd be one of the workers whod get by with just the bandsaw. Like i said, i really wasnt trying to talk down the bandsaw, not at all, just trying to bring up some possible points to consider. 

One thing i didnt mention though, that youll really want to consider, is that a bandsaw wont leave near as clean a cut as a table saw would, at least not with the usual steel blades most of us use. Ive heard that carbide teeth bandsaw blades cut just as clean as a table saw blade, but i cant confirm that


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

epicfail48 said:


> . . .
> 
> One thing i didnt mention though, that youll really want to consider, is that a bandsaw wont leave near as clean a cut as a table saw would, at least not with the usual steel blades most of us use. Ive heard that carbide teeth bandsaw blades cut just as clean as a table saw blade, but i cant confirm that


Good point to raise. A carbide blade requires far more tension than a regular steel blade to perform properly and make those nice cuts, and apparently carbide plates can't in general be used on bandsaws smaller than 20 inches because:

1. They can't be tensioned adequately on smaller bandsaws, and

2. Because of 1., bandsaw blade manufacturers don't make them in the shorter lengths required to fit the smaller bandsaws.

This is a significant limitation on not only quality of cut, but also number of cuts between sharpenings or blade replacements.

My assumptions in considering a bandsaw include using the sander a lot more than would be necessary with a 10" table saw using commonly available high quality carbide blades.

Jim G


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

JimGnitecki said:


> Good point to raise. A carbide blade requires far more tension than a regular steel blade to perform properly and make those nice cuts, and apparently carbide plates can't in general be used on bandsaws *smaller than 20 inches* because:
> 
> 1. They *can't be tensioned adequately* on smaller bandsaws, and
> 
> ...


That's not necessarily the case... I have the Laguna 14 SUV with their 1" Resaw King carbide tipped blade and it is fully tensioned, cuts just great. It is a thinner backing and only takes a 0.043" kerf but it works on the 14" saw. Granted, the Laguna is made to tension greater than most 14" bandsaws but the combination works perfectly. I've posted this before but here's a 2 minute video of what it can do (something we cut a little over a month ago) - Resawing Sinker Mahogany - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1D8V1_M044


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's also about metal fatigue*

The smaller diameter wheels need thinner blade stock and a larger wheel, say 20" to prevent premature breakage and especially at the welds. That's why when you buy a blade for your 10" Craftsman at Sears they are .025" thick not .035". The carbide tipped blades would be too thin for a smaller saw. That's an awesome blade the Woodwhisper used to make those tenons in the You Tube video!

One of my 14" Craftsman saws has a 3 TPI X 1/2" blade for ripping and resawing. The other has a 6 TPI X 3/8" blade for more general purpose cutting. I use either a 3 TPI X 1/2" or a 3 TPI X 3/4" wide blade on the 18" saw strictly for resawing.

I weld my own blades and I've saved a bunch of money since I have 4 woodworking and 2 metal cutting bandsaws. I was ripping a very thin piece from a Cypress block and I almost could not believe how thin it was, you could see through it and it was a uniform thickness/thinness. :blink:​


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

I'll probably catch flack for this but it almost sounds like you could possibly get away with a scroll saw Jim. The drawbacks going this route would be thickness of material and speed, but it would meet your 'lighter and easier to move around' requirement.

I am in no way saying it would be better than a BS for your small toys, but it might work. If you'll be cutting pieces any thicker than about 2" than you'll have to go with a BS.


GL, Jon


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

A good scroll saw is still pretty dang heavy.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Very true.

But it's not even in the same ballpark weight/size wise as a good BS.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

If you could find a used Shopsmith, it might fit your needs for toy making perfectly. 
Check it out.


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

difalkner said:


> That's not necessarily the case... I have the Laguna 14 SUV with their 1" Resaw King carbide tipped blade and it is fully tensioned, cuts just great. It is a thinner backing and only takes a 0.043" kerf but it works on the 14" saw. Granted, the Laguna is made to tension greater than most 14" bandsaws but the combination works perfectly. I've posted this before but here's a 2 minute video of what it can do (something we cut a little over a month ago) -


Yes, I have examined the Laguna 14|12 specs, and although it and the Powermatic 14" 120v bandsaw both weigh about the same (250 Powermatic, 258 Laguna), the overall "cubic space" consumed by the Laguna is surprisingly much larger than the Powermatic. It is significantly larger in both width and height, particularly with the mobile base attached to each machine (which adds 17 lb to the Powermatic and ? to the Laguna).

I actually prefer everything on the Powermatic except the styling, which looks old compared to the Laguna look, and the tension adjustor knob, which is on top on the Powermatic versus convenient height on the Laguna. The tables are almost identically sized.

Tilting the table to 45 degrees on the Laguna does not reduce its footprint much if at all because of the "3rd wheel" on the mobiule base protruding out anyway. On the Powermatic, the base is much slimmer, so when you tilt the table to 45 degrees, the fence guide bar loses 29% of its length when measured horizontally, so the machine footprint becomes notably smaller.

Both mobile bases are very disappointing in their quality given the cost (the Powermatic one costs $180 and I forget the cost for the Laguna one). But the Powermatic one is more robust than the Laguna one.

Interestingly, Laguna says the 14|12 will run just fine on a 15 amp 120 volt breaker, but Powermatic's actual OWNER MANUAL says it needs a 30 amp breaker! (It pulls 11 amps in 120 volt mode, and the spec sheet simply says a 120 volt supply). So, I don't know if the Powermatic could even be a contender, since I have only 15 amp or 20 outlet outlets available to me in the spaces that could be used.

Jim G


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

Chamfer said:


> I'll probably catch flack for this but it almost sounds like you could possibly get away with a scroll saw Jim. The drawbacks going this route would be thickness of material and speed, but it would meet your 'lighter and easier to move around' requirement.
> 
> I am in no way saying it would be better than a BS for your small toys, but it might work. If you'll be cutting pieces any thicker than about 2" than you'll have to go with a BS.
> 
> ...


My raw exotic woods would typically start at no more than 2" unplaned, so the height limitation on a scroll saw is not an issue.

However, I need to cut MOSTLY STRAIGHT cuts, of 3" to 8" and sometimes 12" length, with curves being a nice add-on feature, although not essential. The scroll saw solution would be weak on straight cuts because a scroll saw blade is naturally both narrow and flexible to work well on tight curves. I think the cuts off a quality bandsaw and quality band saw blade, perfected via modest sanding, would likely be more than adequate for my toys, but I suspect scroll saw cuts might not be "flat" enough.

And, remember I am cutting some very hard exotic woods with lots of grain that would just love to deflect that scroll saw blade.

Jim G


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

JimGnitecki said:


> My raw exotic woods would typically start at no more than 2" unplaned, so the height limitation on a scroll saw is not an issue.
> 
> However, I need to cut MOSTLY STRAIGHT cuts, of 3" to 8" and sometimes 12" length, with curves being a nice add-on feature, although not essential. The scroll saw solution would be weak on straight cuts because a scroll saw blade is naturally both narrow and flexible to work well on tight curves. I think the cuts off a quality bandsaw and quality band saw blade, perfected via modest sanding, would likely be more than adequate for my toys, but I suspect scroll saw cuts might not be "flat" enough.
> 
> ...





Fair enough.

With the above info I apparently missed, it sounds like a BS is definitely your best option. 

You could get by with a smaller BS 10-12", there are quality units out there, but a 14" or bigger would give you more versatility down the road if you ever decide to make other larger projects besides small toys.


GL, Jon


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

*A new low in "customer service" and a better response elsewhere*

I am researching both the Powermatic PWBS-14CS and the Laguna 1412, trying to get accurate information on power requirements and cubic space requirements.

The power requirement question stems from the apaprently contradictory information in Powermatics's own website and its online owner's manual. The website implies that a regular 15A 120 volt circuit will work, but the owners manual says a 30A breaker is required.

The cubic space requirement stems from not merely how much floor space is needed, but also because I am consideirng the possibility of equipping the bandsaw with the "mobility kit" and, when not actually using it, housing it and the other 3 or 4 much smaller power tools inside a heated "cabinet or housing" to minimize the impacts of keeping them in an unheated workspace (temperature changes, humidity, and condensation).

So I emailed Powermatic and asked what size breaker is actually needed and how big a "box" would be needed to house the bandsaw, when the mobility base is in place (because the mobility base is larger than the stand footprint, but it is unclear if it is larger than the overall machine width x depth). I even noted that I THINK that tilting the bandsaw table to 45 degrees for storage would reduce the overall machine width.

Here is the email response I received:

"Thanks for writing,

Per my tech - 30 amp breaker and these measurements are something he would need to measure himself after receiving the saw , then make his box with the machine sitting in front of him to make measurements, no way we can measure this for him to make a box as he has listed, we have no idea how to do this accurately


Sincerely,

DeWayne St. Laurent
Internet Support/ASC Warranty Claims"

So, a 30 amp breaker is required, but the product distributor has no idea how large its product is when assembled, and cannot bother to measure one??? Disappointing. The 30 amp requirement is a huge negative for a portable setup, but the inability to even provide a sensible overall width x depth x height would be a total disqualifier.

So, I called Powermatic's 800 number and got "David" who was much more helpful. He told me I need a 30A breaker in order for the machine to start (remember those heavy high inertia cast iron wheels?). He did say though that it is totally ok for the machine to be kept in an unheated ambient environment, provided that I kept any unpainted surfaces waxed to prevent rust due to high humidity or condensation conditions. He then went out and MEASURED a showroom machine, saying that it is 74"h with the 6"riser in place, and the mobility base would add just 1", so withOUT the riser in place (because I don't need to resaw 12" planks), the net height becomes 69". It is also 34"wide with the mobility wheels being the determining factor, and 27" d. But, if I remove the fence for storage, it is 20.5" w/o fence plus 3" for the single pivoting mobility wheel for a total of 23.5" deep. MUCH better response than from the "Internet Support" guy.

When I called Laguna, here is what "Brian" told me:

For the Model MBAND1412-175 bandsaw 

(1) 15A ok? no 20A needed to handle starting

(2) Ok to be unheated ambient? Totally! Just wax the ONE unpainted part, the table, with Johnson paste wax or other protectant.

(3) WxDxH MAX with the mobility base is <72" h x 26"w x34"d

(4) They offer demo or clearance pricing on machines sold direct from them that have been display machines or customer returns that were refurbished, but it is impractical for me to take advantage of those offers, because of the high cost of freight from CA to me in TX.

So, it looks like the Powermatic is not a good solution for me from an electrical power perspective, as there is no 120 volt 30 amp circuit available in the cabin we rent and live in, and my Honda 2000 watt generator couldn't start the Powermatic either. The Laguna's lower amps requirement makes it a better solution from a power perspective, at least for me, since I don't anticipate needing a lot of power for my relatively small cuts.

As for size:
Powermatic in storage configuration: 34"w x 23.5"d x 69"h
Laguna in storage configuration: 34"w x 26"d x 72"h

For BOTH machines, the "width" measurement becomes the cabinet "depth" measurement when rolling either one into a storage cabinet or housing, because of the orientation of the fixed mobility wheels on each machine. This means that the storage housing must be at least 34" "deep", which makes it a real space hog that "sticks out into an aisleway". Best to just wax the table and coat any other unpainted surfaces with a anti-rust spray or wipe-on product, and forget the storage housing/cabinet idea.

My wife says I should consider just "joining" the Austin location of "Techshop", which is basically like a gym membership facility, but with woodworking, metalworking, CNC, etc equipment that you can reserve and use.

However, Techshop charges $150 (current sale price) to $200(regular) membership fee per month, or $1650 prepaid per year (137.50 per month). They require you to take at least two safety training courses (for liability reasons naturally) at $85 each = $170 before you can use their woodworking equipment. And the facility is located 33 miles and and almost an hour away, each way. They also charge you for storage space if you leave materials and projects there so you don't have to transport them each time. The cost is not unreasonable given the Sawstop saw and the planer, lathe, jointer,etc access, but the 2 hour return drive before even considering the actual loading/unloading materials time and woodworking time, makes it seem pretty unattractive to me.

The research continues.

Jim G


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Ouch! I don't think I could pay those kind of fees and ever enjoy woodworking. Plus, I like having my workspace and shop at home - no drive. Brian has been most helpful to me at Laguna, fwiw.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

I find it hard to believe that the powermatic actually requires a 30 amp 120 circuit, given how uncommon any 120 circuit over 20 amps is. I'd bet pretty hard that the powermatic would start and run fine on a standard 20 amp line, given that I can get a 2hp motor to start under an air compressor load on a 20 amp circuit without issue


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

epicfail48 said:


> I find it hard to believe that the powermatic actually requires a 30 amp 120 circuit, given how uncommon any 120 circuit over 20 amps is. I'd bet pretty hard that the powermatic would start and run fine on a standard 20 amp line, given that I can get a 2hp motor to start under an air compressor load on a 20 amp circuit without issue


I understand where you are coming from, but 3 things make me inclined to accept what Powermatic says:

1. What the tech said and what the owner's manual say are consistent with each other - both say 30 amps is needed

2. I have read that the motor on this Powermatic is much more conservatively rate than many other bandsaw motors, and really is more powerful, with a "continuous" versus "peak" hp rating.

3. If I bought the Powermatic and it really would not start on a 20 amp circuit, I'd be pretty screwed. 

Can anyone out there verify that the Powermatic can actually start and run on a 20 amp circuit? (The starting would be the hard part, especially with the heavy cast iron flywheels).

Jim G


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you seem bogged down in the power issue*

I recommended this saw in an earlier post. It has 2 HP and it will run on 120 V at 20 AMPs.. It will cost much less then either of the 2 you are considering and while money is no object, this one makes more sense to me.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqEl_mfyOXU


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

JimGnitecki said:


> I understand where you are coming from, but 3 things make me inclined to accept what Powermatic says:
> 
> 1. What the tech said and what the owner's manual say are consistent with each other - both say 30 amps is needed
> 
> ...


The 2hp motor I was referring to using is an old, American made baldor motor, from the days before 'peak' hp rating was a thing. Any motor up to 2hp will run on all but the touchiest 20amp circuits. I'll all likelihood the powermatic rep you spoke to was reading the specs from the manual, and the manual listed 30 because a lawyer was trying to cover himself.

To be clear, I'm not trying to sway you one way or another on the saw, I have no strong feelings either way. I just think powermatic insisting that you have to have a nearly impossible to find 30 amp 120 circuit rather sketchy at best


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

I spent some time at Woodcraft today, and have a new concern: Using a high quality bandsaw blade, can you actually get a decent finish on a bandsaw cut that approaches the glass smoothness of a table saw cut?

I am asking because one fo the sales rep did a cut, admittedly using a 1/4" blade on a Jet 14", but the cut marks were really prominent.

Can you actually get a glass smooth cut, or does bandsawing mean a lot more sanding?

Jim G


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's all about the blade*

For a straight line comparison, both the tablesaw or the bandsaw can give a very smooth cut, depending on the blade. In the case of the bandsaw, you must use a fence to make the smoothest cut since any variation in your cut from being "hand guided" will result in a more irregular cut. Of course the table saw uses a fence for ripping regardless of the type of blade. A tablesaw won't cut curves like a bandsaw regardless, so you will be sanding out more in the curved portions, unless you are a robot and make perfect cuts ....:no:

Blades have different "set" to the teeth and number of teeth. Bandsaw blades are rated in TPI or teeth per inch where table saws have a rating based on their circumference.... 24 tooth , a ripping blade, 40 tooth , a general purpose blade and 60 tooth , a crosscut blade.

To get the finest finish cut on a bandsaw.... which the 1/4" blade at Woodcraft did not, you must use a quality blade like a Timberwolf, Starrett, Lenox, Woodslicer or a carbide tipped blade AND the wider the better. The blade guides must be precision, the weld must be perfect and the saw's wheels must run true or the blade will wobble. The blade must be properly tensioned since when you start your cut any looseness will cause the portion above the cut to flutter. The lower wheel is pulling the blade through the work and all the rest of the blade going around will be in the slightest bit less tension because the wood is resisting it's travel. That's not enough to notice unless your blade is not properly tensioned. A loose blade will spin off the wheels. A tight blade will stay on and will produce a far better cut. I weld my own blades and I tension them by their sound. I like them a bit tighter than "recommended" by the factory blade tension indicator, which are not all that reliable.

I use Timberwolf blades in 3/4" wide, and some in 1/2" wide and I don't really notice a big difference in the cut when resawing. A narrower blade will cut a tighter radius, not necessarily give a more ragged cut in my experience. That carbide tipped blade the Woodwhisperer used in the video on tenon making was sweet, but probably about $100 plus or so. That Grizzly 17" saw in their video was a really smooth running saw also. :yes:


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

JimGnitecki said:


> I spent some time at Woodcraft today, and have a new concern: Using a high quality bandsaw blade, can you actually get a decent finish on a bandsaw cut that approaches the glass smoothness of a table saw cut?
> 
> I am asking because one fo the sales rep did a cut, admittedly using a 1/4" blade on a Jet 14", but the cut marks were really prominent.
> 
> ...


Probably not, at least not without shelling out big bucks for a fancy carbide tipped blade. Even with said fancy blade though, I'd still admit to being skeptical that the cut quality would be quite as good as a table saw.


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

Thanks, WoodnThings and Epicfail48. The quality of the cut is very important to my wood toy projects, because dimensional precision is important to both the toys' appearance and functionality. The need for significant sanding would hurt the dimensional control, would require a lot of hand sanding in areas that a belt on a combo sander can't get to, would generate a lot more dust. A "glass smooth" appearance and reflectivity of the oil finish are important attractions of my finished products.

It sounds like obtaining a good enough cut would require a lot more attention than a table saw would require, and would necessitate changing blades perhaps a lot in order to take advantage of the curve cutting abilities of the bandsaw.

I would not mind spending the money on the best carbide bandsaw blades, but if the smoothness of cuts is still going to be vulnerable to slight misadjustments or drift of adjustments with time and use, I am concerned about whether the bandsaw would be the right move for me.

Jim G


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that's easy*

If you have all straight cuts within the height capacity of the tablesaw, then that's your best choice. 

If you have curved cuts and they can be twice as thick on the bandsaw, then that's your best choice.

If you have a combination of both straight and curved, you will still need a bandsaw. 

I will make some test cuts using the blades I have, and very look closely at the surface. I will put on a new blade and make test cuts and well as the used blades I have on there now. I'll post the results. I've never really expected a super fine finish on the bandsaw, so I'll be interested myself to see what happens.


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

By the way, I took very detailed measurements with tape measure, straight edge, and level at Woodcraft yesterday, of 3 bandsaws: The Laguna 1412, the Powermatic PWBS-14CS, and the Rikon 10-35.

Here they are for the benefit of others considering the purchase of one for their shop, who are concerned about how much space the bandsaw would actually consume when not in use. ALL the measurements are for a machine WITH the manufacturer's mobility kit installed (which increases the footprint of each machine notably):

Laguna 14|12 MBAND1412-175:
(12”resaw capability without riser)
ACTUAL measurements: 25w x 33.5d x 70.5h w/mobility
258 lb + 12lb mobility + 3 lb light
The "swivel" mobility wheel on is on the “RHS” when viewing the machine from the normal operator position (i.e. opposite the spine of the frame)

Powermatic PWBS-14CS:
(6" resaw capability, but 6" riser can be added if desired)
ACTUAL measurements: 22.5w x 29d(when table is tilted for storage) x 68h (add 6" to height is riser is used)
250 lb +17 lb mobility base
The "swivel" mobility wheel is located behind the spine of the frame

Rikon 10-325
ACTUAL measurements: 25w (mobility kit wheels are the limiting factor) x 29.75d (table tilted for storage) x 76.75h
Swivel wheel on “RHS” of frame

The location of the swivel wheel in each mobility kit is important because in all cases that swivel wheel is the major contributor to additional floor space required. It also determines the orientation of the machine for actually moving it around and stuffing it into a corner for storage, since that side of the machine has to be the "trailing" side when pushing it.

Note that the Powermatic is the "smallest" consumer of space. But, Powermatic tech support insists that it supposedly requires a 30 amp 110 volt breaker to start the machine on 110 volts (because of its supposedly more powerful motor) which not many shops normally have.

I know very little about bandsaws, at least yet, but made a few interesting observations while measuring these machines and manipulating their controls and adjustments:

- None "stood out" from the other 2 in terms of quality or ergonomics

- The Rikon had rack and pinion adjustment on the table tilt, while the other 2 did not. This made tilt adjustments significantly easier

- The specific Laguna on display had serious table trunnion problems, despite having TWO trunnions versus one. The sales rep who helped me agreed that "there is a problem with this specific one". The table kept "catching", at multiple points, when trying to tilt it. It made tilting the table very frustrating, and accuracy of the adjustment pretty difficult to attain. Supposedly, this specific machine's problem, not a general thing for this Laguna model

- The Powermatic requires a riser to match the resaw height capability of the other 2

- The Powermatic basic aesthetic design looks "old" compared to the other 2

- The blade tension adjustment knob on the Powermatic is on the very top of the machine (an old design) which is inconvenient to use

- The paint quality on the Powermatic was notably superior to the other 2

- The Laguna was the most aesthetically pleasing in terms of shape, while the Powermatic had a distinct edge on that paint quality and color impact. The Rikon was an "appliance" in terms of visual impact.

Jim G


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm surprised the 1412 doesn't have rack and pinion table tilt - my 14 SUV has that and I just figured they used it on all their saws. 

How does the 14BX compare to the 1412? I know it's about $250 more and seems like I read that it has a heavier frame. Btw, the ceramic guides on the Laguna are great! 

I read the statement about the high starting current for the Powermatic and its cast iron wheels but the Laguna and the Rikon have cast iron wheels, as well.

And I have to agree on the Laguna's good looks. It's the first thing people see when they walk into my shop and draws the most comments.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Bandsaw sawcut tests*

I have 2 bandsaws with one with a 3 TPI blade the other with a 6 TPI blade. They have both been used a fair amount, except the 6 TPI has been used to cut 1/2" aluminum on the slower speed. It worked quite well and well, slower. 

I also tested 2 table saw blades, a 50 tooth combination Freud Diablo and a 24 tooth rip Freud Diablo. I rubbed the surfaces with a marking crayola to show the saw cuts. As expected the table saw cuts were smoother, but I made NO allowance for feed rates which I kept at "normal" for my shop cuts, probably a little faster than the average to get the best surface:


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

Why don't you get the tablesaw for cut quality and a small benchtop bandsaw for curves? Neither are comparable replacements for each other.


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

difalkner said:


> i'm surprised the 1412 doesn't have rack and pinion table tilt - my 14 suv has that and i just figured they used it on all their saws. i was surprised to see the lack of rack and pinion on the 1412 myself. The more expensive suv model right beside it had it.
> 
> how does the 14bx compare to the 1412? I know it's about $250 more and seems like i read that it has a heavier frame. Btw, the ceramic guides on the laguna are great! i hadn't looked at the specs on the 14bx because i thought the 1412 would do the job for me.
> 
> ...


jim g


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> I have 2 bandsaws with one with a 3 TPI blade the other with a 6 TPI blade. They have both been used a fair amount, except the 6 TPI has been used to cut 1/2" aluminum on the slower speed. It worked quite well and well, slower.
> 
> I also tested 2 table saw blades, a 50 tooth combination Freud Diablo and a 24 tooth rip Freud Diablo. I rubbed the surfaces with a marking crayola to show the saw cuts. As expected the table saw cuts were smoother, but I made NO allowance for feed rates which I kept at "normal" for my shop cuts, probably a little faster than the average to get the best surface:


Thanks for running that experiment on my behalf, WoodnThings. And using the marker to highlight the cuts was a GREAT idea that really draws (pardon the pun) out the differences. Those photos do a great job of showing the differences. 

Jim G


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

NickDIY said:


> Why don't you get the tablesaw for cut quality and a small benchtop bandsaw for curves? Neither are comparable replacements for each other.


If I had the amount of space I'd like, and no need for portability, yes, that is exactly what I would do, and what I suspect most woodworkers would do.

But, I do have space and portability limitations. 

And, I have read and been told, consistently, that the benchtop size bandsaws available for us to buy are just not high enough quality, and that a high quality benchtop bandsaw is technically impossible because you just can't get sufficient wheel radius and wheel and machine mass, and sufficient blade tensioning capability, into a small dimensioned bandsaw.

So that benchtop bandsaw would produce MORE of that lower quality cut finish that I would need to now add a spindle sander to address and produce more dust doing it. It's a path of spiraling adverse fixes trying to improperly address a fundamental reality: bandsaws apparently need to be at least 14" in size and 250 lb in weight to hit quality thresholds that will satisfy their users. I say this not based on personal experience, but based on what I have CONSISTENTLY read and been told by people who are acknowledged to be bandsaw pros.

Jim G


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

JimGnitecki said:


> the *Powermatic's apparently greater power output* also requires more power, and the combination is apparently enough to require more than a 20 amp breaker can pass without tripping, and there are no 25 amp breakers commercially available so you go to 30.
> 
> jim g


The PM motor is 1.5 HP and the Laguna is 1.75 HP, so I would say the Laguna has the greater power regardless of what they say on breaker size, unless I am missing something.


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

You don't need much of a tool to cut some curves here and there. For all practical purposes, a hand held jig saw is probably fine for most work. The best band saws in the world are still going to require a sander to clean them up. 

You said in the first post that a Drill Press was part of the plans. You don't need a spindle sander if you have a DP. I use a little sanding drum kit like this one and the results are good. Mine, unfortunately, does not have the little case though  

I'm just saying that if your goal is to be able to occasionally saw curves, but consistently rip clean, straight lines, you're not going to be happy with a 14" bandsaw and no table saw in the long run.

I've never used a small benchtop bandsaw. I have a 17" 2HP Griz. I'd use the old Ryobi tablesaw that I used to own before I'd use the 2HP bandsaw for anything that I wanted a nice edge on. 

You should read this article. I think woodnthings mentioned in another post about the Griz 14". Overall footprint is 27" x 30", but the table comes off easier than you'd think for long term storage. The steel stand could easily be replaced with a shop made cart with added storage.


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## NickB (Sep 24, 2013)

Also, not sure if this has been said, but for a portable tablesaw, I don't think anything can beat the Bosch 4100 on the gravity stand...


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

difalkner said:


> The PM motor is 1.5 HP and the Laguna is 1.75 HP, so I would say the Laguna has the greater power regardless of what they say on breaker size, unless I am missing something.


What you are missing is the RATING system used by the 2 manufacturers. Laguna uses a rating that is based on the "peak" power that the motor might develop under ideal conditions and very briefly. Powermatic uses the far more conservative "continuous power" rating. BIG difference.

To put this in perspective, in a high performance sports car, you can see, on a dyno, a "peak" rating of say 550 hp. But, if you actually run the engine at that power level by driving at a very high road speed, the engine, the transmission, and the rear axle gearset can all overheat in minutes or even seconds. For example, on early 21st century Corvettes, which used a rear-mounted transaxle, the limiting factor was the heat produced in the rear axle gears, and (if an auto transmission versus manual was used) the heat produced in the transmission. Both would fail under peak loading conditions after relatively short periods of time. Chevrolet actually started installing COOLERS on the rear axle assembly to "bandaid" that problem. Check it out.

The PEAK horsepower rating for those Corvettes was in the 400 hp range (at the flywheel), but "continuous" power was limited to FAR less. In fact, in the 2002 through 2006 Corvettes, I happen to know that Chevy actually had the dealerships quietly, unknown to the car owners, limit the power produced by the engines, especially in 1st gear acceleration, in order to reduce the cost of the warranty claims being generated by people trying to USE that "rated" peak power on the street, and frying their transmissions. This was because the engine could peak at 400 ft lb of torque, but if you looked up the transmission specs in GM's own tech literature, the automatic version of the transmission was rated to handle only 350 ft lb. No kidding.

I predict that if anyone actually tests a Powermatic versus a Laguna and measures the current consumption under heavy load and pushes each machien to the point of stalling out the motor, doing say a long and deep rip in hardwood, they will see a difference in capability.

Jim G


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

NickDIY said:


> Also, not sure if this has been said, but for a portable tablesaw, I don't think anything can beat the Bosch 4100 on the gravity stand...


Actually, the SawStop Jobsite saw DOES beat the Bosch, on BOTH overall size AND, very solidly, on ergonomics and features. I played with both at Woodcraft and the SawStop absolutely kills the Bosch as I see it, including the folding stand operation. If you haven't played with both, try it. It'll leave an impression.

And then there's that saw stopping safety feature. How do you put a price on that when medical costs are so ridiculously high in the U.S.? I fell off a bicycle for goodness sake, at under 10 mph, fracturing ONLY my left little finger, and the bills totaled to over $16,000, and I needed 3 months of therapy to get the hand working decently again after it lost range of motion and strength being "splinted" for several weeks while the fracture healed.

Jim G


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

JimGnitecki said:


> What you are missing is the RATING system used by the 2 manufacturers. Laguna uses a rating that is based on the "peak" power that the motor might develop under ideal conditions and very briefly. Powermatic uses the far more conservative "continuous power" rating. BIG difference.
> 
> Jim G


Yep, missed that - I just looked at the rating. I raced cars, go-karts, and motorcycles for years and built engines so I well understand the difference. Your explanation was a good refresher course, though.

Well, you've done enough research and received all kinds of feedback but we probably didn't help much. :laughing:

Are you about ready to make a purchase and show us some photos of your work? We're ready to see what you're making! :thumbsup:


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

difalkner said:


> Yep, missed that - I just looked at the rating. I raced cars, go-karts, and motorcycles for years and built engines so I well understand the difference. Your explanation was a good refresher course, though.
> 
> Well, you've done enough research and received all kinds of feedback but we probably didn't help much. :laughing:
> 
> Are you about ready to make a purchase and show us some photos of your work? We're ready to see what you're making! :thumbsup:


Actually, you guys have helped a lot. Your advice, coupled with all the research I have been doing, and the 2 different books I have read, one on bandsaws, and one on tablesaws, has me thinking that the best solutino for my unique circumstances might be:

Saw: SawStop Jobsite saw with cart removed (and maybe sold to someone who damaged theirs and needs one). This saw is much smaller and incredibly lighter (79 lb) than any decent bandsaw, and I won't need to be worried about quality of cut (see blade below).

Blade: Blade: Tenryu GM-25540 (“Gold Medal”, .111" kerf) or GM-25540-2 (if for any reason I want a more standard .125” kerf). A compelling reason for favoring this blade over a Freud P410 or a WW2 is the consistent remarks I read from users about not only its quality of cut (at least as good as the Freud P410 and WW2), but its relative SILENCE in comparison.

Extra SawStop Zero clearance insert TSI-SJB ($29) which I would use whenever beveling, so that my primary insert remains "zero clearance".

Table slide & miter: Incra Miter Express + Miter 1000HD miter “combo” $284.85 (combo saves 60.05 over buying separately) + 1 or 2 extra workpiece clamps + extra "cutoff" plate for the Miter Express. This hardware will allow me to do 2 things:

1. Eliminate needing the DeWalt 734 planer, since the short and relatively small pieces of unplaned exotic woods I will use can be effectively "planed" via first crosscutting and then ripping on the SawStop, using the table slide (The Micro Express and 1000HD miter combo comes with 1 workpiece clamp and I would buy at least 1 more, so that I could both crosscut and rip using the table slide without needing the fence). Remember, many of the exotic planks I start with are purchased from the lumber dealer as "cutoff leftovers" that are rather short - often just 4 to 5 feet long, and never larger than a 2" by about 10" plank.

2. Cut all the miters and bevels I need, using the 2nd cutoff plate and extra no-longer-zero clearance insert for the bevel cuts. The workpiece clamps make feeding the smallest workpieces into the blade via the table slide practical and safe, and the table slide and clamps working together are my configurable jig for each cut.

On the SawStop Jobsite table saw, both the riving knife and the blade guard spreader are designed for 10” blades and have a thickness of 2.3mm (.0905"). SawStop's instructions for the saw say to only use 10” blades with a kerf between 2.35mm (.0925”) and 3.5mm (0.138”) , and with a blade body between (.071”) 1.8mm and 2.1mm (.0828”). This ensures that the riving blade and blade guard spreader will be effective and will not interfere with passage of the workpiece. It also means I will hopefully never have to remove either the riving knife or spreader (even though the saw has that superb saw stopping feature). It also means that I can use either the .111" or the .125" kerf version of the Tenryu blade.

I mention this riving knife and spreader dimensions issue since many people ghet concerned about matching the riving knife and spreader widths to the blade. Per SawStop, and theyb certainly shoudl know, no need to do so as long as you stay within their overall recommended blade width limits.

The use of the above equipment enables me to do, I think, everything I need to do, with only the tablesaw, a drill press, a disc and belt sander combo, and a 1 ton arbor press. That may be as small and lightweight as I can get for "my shop".

As for timing, as a result of an oiut-of-town contract consulting job offer that I may accept, I MAY need to wait at least 4 months before I can proceed, but that doesn't worry me. I can use the time in the evenings at the hotel or B&B to design the toys, and the build processes that I will be using to build them.

And yes, given all the helpful guidance that many of you have provided, I will indeed post photos of some of my work once we get to that point!

Jim G


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*one of the rules of table saw safety ....*

If you are buying exotic hardwood planks they may not have a straight edge or a flat surface ..... ? You should not place board that is not flat or does not have a straight edge on the table saw or against the fence. WHY? If the board rocks or twists in the middle of a pass, it may bind the blade causing a kickback. Placing a curved board against the fence will also result in a curve on the piece being cut off depending on whether the curve is concave or convex. A convex curve would be difficult to hold against the fence consistently.

Exotic hardwood is much less forgiving in this regard than typical USA hardwoods in my experience.
My Honduran Rosewood is "rock hard" and when I run it over the jointer it's a completely different sound and feed rate.

While the Saw Stop is a great preventer of flesh wounds, as far as I know it will do nothing to prevent a kickback. The use of the splitter will almost insure no kickbacks but the wood should always be flat and straight on one face and one edge...

None of this matters a whole lot on the bandsaw. 
Just so you know. :blink:


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> If you are buying exotic hardwood planks they may not have a straight edge or a flat surface ..... ? You should not place board that is not flat or does not have a straight edge on the table saw or against the fence. WHY? If the board rocks or twists in the middle of a pass, it may bind the blade causing a kickback. Placing a curved board against the fence will also result in a curve on the piece being cut off depending on whether the curve is concave or convex. A convex curve would be difficult to hold against the fence consistently.
> 
> Exotic hardwood is much less forgiving in this regard than typical USA hardwoods in my experience.
> My Honduran Rosewood is "rock hard" and when I run it over the jointer it's a completely different sound and feed rate.
> ...


Yes, you are right, WoodnThings, BUT that is exactly why I am planning on getting the Incra Miter Express slide table. Using that to carry unplaned board into an through the saw blade, with the workpiece solidly CLAMPED to the slide table, and the slide table moving across the saw table, withOUT a fence involved, takes out any concerns about non-parallel workpiece sides, warp, twist, etc. And my workpieces are almost always under 2" thick and 3 to 4 inches wide. I think this will work.

On the bandsaw you don't have the same concerns about warp, twist, etc, but you do have cut-finish issues and that darn "drift" issue, plus a need to change blades much more than on the table saw. And, when you change the blade on a bandsaw, there is MUCH more to readjust and make perfect for the new size of blade. 

Jim G


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not necessarily ....*



JimGnitecki said:


> Yes, you are right, WoodnThings, ........
> 
> On the bandsaw you don't have the same concerns about warp, twist, etc, but you do have cut-finish issues *and that darn "drift" issue*, plus a need to change blades much more than on the table saw. And, when you change the blade on a bandsaw, there is MUCH more to readjust and make perfect for the new size of blade.
> 
> Jim G


This video explains how to avoid all that when it's properly set up..." no bandsaw drift" at 17:00 and no side guide adjustments required for different blade widths at 4:40 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU


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## JimGnitecki (Dec 5, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> This video explains how to avoid all that when it's properly set up..." no bandsaw drift" at 17:00 and no side guide adjustments required for different blade widths at 4:40
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU


I watched the whole video (35 minutes)! NICE!

He obviously is very experienced. Still wondering about smoothness of the cut obtainable on a bandsaw.

Jim G


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*myths disspelled ....*

There are some myths regarding power tools that can be disspelled and that was my point in posting that. Without knowing specifically what your technical requirements are to make these toys I would venture a WAG (wild arse guess), that you could probably do just fine with a well tuned quality bandsaw, a quality blade AND an appropriate belt sander. Maybe a 2" or 4" wide belt sander would remove any saw marks in a heart beat.

Maybe one like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DAYTON-2RYN7-Belt-Grinder-3-4HP-120-240V-7-3-5A-2x48-/381025315929

or larger:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PALMGREN-96-82404-Belt-Sander/231634671583?_trksid=p2045573.c100508.m3226&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150817211856%26meid%3Db0d4c860c9df44e8a749da2fe28793b7%26pid%3D100508%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26


Or a drum sander which I have: 
http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Baby-Drum-Sander/G0459


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