# how to make this trim?



## chsdiyer (Dec 12, 2011)

Since I can't find it at any of the suppliers around here, I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to make this trim? It's used on all the door and windows in my house (except the new ones i've put in which i'd like to match). I can't find a bit that would do it so i was wondering if it would take two different bits maybe...one for the middle profile and a chamfer on the end.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm pretty sure it's not a special bit. It appears to just be an ogee cutter on a tilting arbor shaper...

Check with a local millshop about a custom run if you HAVE to have it.

...build n burn - live n learn...


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Here is a link for a router bit to make the base cap.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Well the correct way to make a piece of molding like that is with a molder. Problem is a company will charge hundreds of dollars for the first foot for tooling and so much a foot. A cabinet shop can also do this but it might take two sets of knives depending on the width of the profile. They will also charge a lot of money for tooling and so much a foot. For a do it yourselfer you can use a three wing cutter available in many places you can use on a table saw. You can get blank blades and grind your own profile on the blades. It is hard to do to grind three blades alike but if you are patient and carefully measure can be done. The next problem is the knives on a three wing cutter will only cut 1" wide. You would need to make probably 3 sets of knives to do this and when in operation will leave a mark where the cuts overlap. This means a lot of sanding. I think it would be easier to demo all the molding in the house and replace it with some that was available at your local supplier. This is usually what I do when a customer wants some antique molding reproduced. Just for reference, if you came to my shop and wanted me to make that molding I would charge $525.00 for tooling and $3.00 per ft with a min. 50' order provided the profile is 3" or less. A lot of that is the steel for the blades. The shaper steel I use runs $23.00 an inch and it would take two blades 3 1/2" to 4" long.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> Well the correct way to make a piece of molding like that is with a molder. Problem is a company will charge hundreds of dollars for the first foot for tooling and so much a foot. A cabinet shop can also do this but it might take two sets of knives depending on the width of the profile. They will also charge a lot of money for tooling and so much a foot. For a do it yourselfer you can use a three wing cutter available in many places you can use on a table saw. You can get blank blades and grind your own profile on the blades. It is hard to do to grind three blades alike but if you are patient and carefully measure can be done. The next problem is the knives on a three wing cutter will only cut 1" wide. You would need to make probably 3 sets of knives to do this and when in operation will leave a mark where the cuts overlap. This means a lot of sanding. I think it would be easier to demo all the molding in the house and replace it with some that was available at your local supplier. This is usually what I do when a customer wants some antique molding reproduced. Just for reference, if you came to my shop and wanted me to make that molding I would charge $525.00 for tooling and $3.00 per ft with a min. 50' order provided the profile is 3" or less. A lot of that is the steel for the blades. The shaper steel I use runs $23.00 an inch and it would take two blades 3 1/2" to 4" long.


Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?

...build n burn - live n learn...


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

firemedic said:


> Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman...


+1. :yes:









 







.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

firemedic said:


> Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?
> 
> ...build n burn - live n learn...


+2:yes:


----------



## chsdiyer (Dec 12, 2011)

> Check with a local millshop about a custom run if you HAVE to have it.


Thanks boudreaux....I called a local shop here and they said they could reproduce it, just waiting on cost. It's a pretty popular profile around here i older homes. I know my church has it but it's much larger scale since their doors are about 10ft. They thought they may have already done it for another customer previously so maybe the cost wont be too bad.



> Here is a link for a router bit to make the base cap.


I actually looked that that bit a while back as the closest i could find to match but thought maybe that curve profile on the end might cut too deep and just not get the same look. But i looked more today and maybe it could be an alternative if the lumber yard is too costly.



> Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?


+3, but more of a Huuuuuuh? I'm lost on that one, but i do appreciate the input!


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Take a slice off your existing molding*

It needs only be a 1/2" wide or so and use that as the template for a drawing, and just trace around it. You can then build a series of profiles using common router bits or shaper cutters or even the Craftsman molding head shown above. 
http://ptreeusa.com/freud_wide_crown_system.htm
You will be able to get pretty close.

A tilting arbor shaper may be a stretch, it's pretty specialized equipment...

You may find someone with a Woodmaster molder who has a similar cutter to make a limited run. Check the Woodmaster site for their profiles and the number associated with them.
http://www.woodmastermoldingknives.com/stock.cfm


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

chsdiyer said:


> Thanks boudreaux....


eh heh... Someone been down here before :laughing:

FYI, I prefer to be Thibodaux... He's usually the smarter feller in the joke :smile::yes:

...build n burn - live n learn...


----------



## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Most,if not all...millshops here charge an hour @ regular "shoprate" for setting up a moulder.Then you work out a per foot price.So the customer simply does the math....and decides for themselves if thats the approach they want to take.

On a personal note,we've found that 100' is usually where the demarcation spot is for our shop.IOWs....up to a hundred we'll usually make it inhouse.Grinding cutters or mixin/matching exist profiles.Once we need more than a hundred....we'll farm it out.Its like planing....doing it yourself vs having planer mills contracting it.Everyones shop profile is going to be different.The sooner you get a handle on the above the quicker you become in that decision part of the process.


Best of luck,BW


----------



## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Mark Profile on Edge of board raise Table Saw blade and run in steps to lines. Make a WOODNTHINGS Special Scratch See his thread and Sand


----------



## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> Well the correct way to make a piece of molding like that is with a molder. Problem is a company will charge hundreds of dollars for the first foot for tooling and so much a foot. A cabinet shop can also do this but it might take two sets of knives depending on the width of the profile. They will also charge a lot of money for tooling and so much a foot. For a do it yourselfer you can use a three wing cutter available in many places you can use on a table saw. You can get blank blades and grind your own profile on the blades. It is hard to do to grind three blades alike but if you are patient and carefully measure can be done. The next problem is the knives on a three wing cutter will only cut 1" wide. You would need to make probably 3 sets of knives to do this and when in operation will leave a mark where the cuts overlap. This means a lot of sanding. I think it would be easier to demo all the molding in the house and replace it with some that was available at your local supplier. This is usually what I do when a customer wants some antique molding reproduced. Just for reference, if you came to my shop and wanted me to make that molding I would charge $525.00 for tooling and $3.00 per ft with a min. 50' order provided the profile is 3" or less. A lot of that is the steel for the blades. The shaper steel I use runs $23.00 an inch and it would take two blades 3 1/2" to 4" long.


i'm with you steve,you were exactly right. btdt. i have several packs of the "blanks" left for custom grinding work.


----------



## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

chsdiyer said:


> Since I can't find it at any of the suppliers around here,


What suppliers Homeboy and Louz?
The sketch you drew is a Brosco 8465 1-3/4" band molding often referred to as clapboard molding.

Hope this helps.

Prices and availability may vary in different parts of the world....:laughing:


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?
> 
> ...build n burn - live n learn...


The knives I have are nothing to show, actually more of an embarrassment but here are most of them. I purchased the cutter head about 30 years ago and use it every two or three years which accounts for the rust. I avoid the thing because you have to use it real slow to get decent molding out of it. I normally only use it when I need a profile that is on a board too wide to run it on my shaper. I did use it a couple of weeks ago. I had a customer that had me replace some cedar shakes on the side of her house that had a lot of grooves on it. It was easier for me to run grooves on plain shakes than track down a supplier for the actual siding.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> The knives I have are nothing to show, actually more of an embarrassment but here are most of them. I purchased the cutter head about 30 years ago and use it every two or three years which accounts for the rust. I avoid the thing because you have to use it real slow to get decent molding out of it. I normally only use it when I need a profile that is on a board too wide to run it on my shaper. I did use it a couple of weeks ago. I had a customer that had me replace some cedar shakes on the side of her house that had a lot of grooves on it. It was easier for me to run grooves on plain shakes than track down a supplier for the actual siding.


That's pretty cool steve! Are you running the single knife head or the three knife?

...build n burn - live n learn...


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> That's pretty cool steve! Are you running the single knife head or the three knife?
> 
> ...build n burn - live n learn...


Before I got a shaper I bought a single head cutter and didn't like it at all. I was trying to go into business and I was not getting very professional looking results. For one thing I was trying to use it on my radial arm saw turned vertical to make the panels on raised panel doors. Then I purchased the three wing cutter and used that until I bought the shaper. Now when there is something I can't run on my shaper I am more likely to use the single cutter just because I'm too lazy to make three knives and because it usually involves less than 20' of molding. If the job called for a lot of footage or I thought I would make more on another occasion there is no question I would use the three wing cutter. Right now most of the blades I have, have be recycled to other profiles for the single cutter. I believe I used one of the cabinet door coping knives for the wood shingle knife in the picture. There is no chance I would attempt to make cabinet doors with that three wing cutter again. I would either buy a router bit set or buy someone elses doors.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> The knives I have are nothing to show, actually more of an embarrassment but here are most of them. I purchased the cutter head about 30 years ago and use it every two or three years which accounts for the rust. I avoid the thing because you have to use it real slow to get decent molding out of it. I normally only use it when I need a profile that is on a board too wide to run it on my shaper. I did use it a couple of weeks ago. I had a customer that had me replace some cedar shakes on the side of her house that had a lot of grooves on it. It was easier for me to run grooves on plain shakes than track down a supplier for the actual siding.


I agree, that is cool, I apologize for doubting you.


----------



## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

40 years ago I watched an elderly craftsman make similar molding pieces by hand. Very tedious, but once stained, impossible to tell which was original and which he made. You can cut it close on a table saw and finish with a scraper if you have plenty of time. I made a few small pieces for my house that way.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

rusty baker said:


> 40 years ago I watched an elderly craftsman make similar molding pieces by hand. Very tedious, but once stained, impossible to tell which was original and which he made. You can cut it close on a table saw and finish with a scraper if you have plenty of time. I made a few small pieces for my house that way.


What I would like to see is someone make molding with one of those hand plane type molders. I see them in antiques shops but I'm too cheap to buy one and give it a try. It's the same principal but that's got to be awful spending hours to make a piece of molding.


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> What I would like to see is someone make molding with one of those hand plane type molders. I see them in antiques shops but I'm too cheap to buy one and give it a try. It's the same principal but that's got to be awful spending hours to make a piece of molding.


Steve, it's really pretty easy to make single profile mouldings. If you go to my thread "making raised panels - hand tools" in the hand tool section I show a simple ogge made with a Stanly 45. This thread has really gone off into left field though so this part of the discussion should probably be moved elsewhere? Don't want to be on the hijacker list 

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/making-raised-panels-hand-tools-33353/

Also see:





...build n burn - live n learn...

EDIT: added links


----------



## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> What I would like to see is someone make molding with one of those hand plane type molders. I see them in antiques shops but I'm too cheap to buy one and give it a try. It's the same principal but that's got to be awful spending hours to make a piece of molding.


Depends on whether you have anything else to do.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Steve, it's really pretty easy to make single profile mouldings. If you go to my thread "making raised panels - hand tools" in the hand tool section I show a simple ogge made with a Stanly 45. This thread has really gone off into left field though so this part of the discussion should probably be moved elsewhere? Don't want to be on the hijacker list
> 
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/making-raised-panels-hand-tools-33353/
> 
> ...


Thankyou but I can't. I'm on dial-up internet and I have a hard time getting PDF files. Video is out of the question. 

This discussion is hardly off topic. A person could custom make blades for one of these hand plane molders and make the molding this guy is needing. He didn't say if he was needing a thousand feet or one piece.


----------



## Zircon (Aug 1, 2009)

I suggest that you check out ***** Lumber. They have a huge molding inventory and a PDF file online of the molding profiles. Since you are doing doors and windows, the pieces don't have to be very long and they could probably ship UPS.
http://www.dykeslumber.com/moulding_profiles.htm


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Huh?*



MastersHand said:


> Mark Profile on Edge of board raise Table Saw blade and run in steps to lines. *Make a WOODNTHINGS Special Scratch See his thread and *Sand


 I have no idea what this is. Should I? You talkin' 'bout me Willis?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> I have no idea what this is. Should I? You talkin' 'bout me Willis?


I got it. You draw the design of the profile on the end of the board you are running, (should have had a comma) then keep running the profile raising the blade in steps until you get to the line drawn. He had almost as much trouble with punctuation as I do. :laughing: I think he sends messages mostly from his phone. I couldn't do that at all.


----------



## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> I have no idea what this is. Should I? You talkin' 'bout me Willis?


Lol the Scratches you made "There Dynomite"


----------



## MGP Roofing (Jul 10, 2010)

Do you have anyone nearby who sells parts from demolished buildings? We have such suppliers in our area that have a huge assortment of just about anything you may need- mouldings, floor boards, windows, hardware, etc. Very useful when renovating or just maintaining an old house.


----------



## chsdiyer (Dec 12, 2011)

firemedic said:


> eh heh... Someone been down here before :laughing:
> 
> FYI, I prefer to be Thibodaux... He's usually the smarter feller in the joke :smile::yes:
> 
> ...build n burn - live n learn...


Yes sah...born and raised in New Orleans. 



> Most,if not all...millshops here charge an hour @ regular "shoprate" for setting up a moulder.Then you work out a per foot price.So the customer simply does the math....and decides for themselves if thats the approach they want to take.


That seems to be the case here too. But needing about 200 LF that may be a bit too pricey for my taste, especially if i can work something up myself...saving some money and having fun doing it...that might be my route. I'll have to read back through this thread...lots of good ideas. 



> Do you have anyone nearby who sells parts from demolished buildings? We have such suppliers in our area that have a huge assortment of just about anything you may need- mouldings, floor boards, windows, hardware, etc. Very useful when renovating or just maintaining an old house.


Good idea, I think we do. I think someone told me once the city has a building where they sells off salvaged materials from old homes that get torn down. 



> What suppliers Homeboy and Louz?
> The sketch you drew is a Brosco 8465 1-3/4" band molding often referred to as clapboard molding.


Thanks. I checked them guys but also 3 local lumberyards. But I guess i need to check them again since they probably dont keep their catalogs updated. Lowes had the picture frame molding i needed but was more expensive than then lumber yard. Everyone always says the lumber yards are more expensive, but I seem to find that opposite. Lowes and HD are usually more expensive.


Thanks for all the info!


----------



## chsdiyer (Dec 12, 2011)

Well...attempt #1 was getting the freud bit (99-480) a whirl and it's not close enough to the profile i'm trying to get. The rounded part is too exagerated and the chamfer part is too small, and overall it's just too large. I think i'm gonna have someone custom make it for me. I was considering buying a planer/molder, especially cause i "need" a planer, but I dont think i can justify that kind of cost. Thanks again for all the feedback.


----------



## TJR (Sep 18, 2012)

chsdiyer said:


> Thanks boudreaux....I called a local shop here and they said they could reproduce it, just waiting on cost. It's a pretty popular profile around here i older homes. I know my church has it but it's much larger scale since their doors are about 10ft. They thought they may have already done it for another customer previously so maybe the cost wont be too bad.
> 
> 
> I actually looked that that bit a while back as the closest i could find to match but thought maybe that curve profile on the end might cut too deep and just not get the same look. But i looked more today and maybe it could be an alternative if the lumber yard is too costly.
> ...


 if you know anyone near you, that has a Woodmaster planer and molder machine. you can send a small piece of the molding you need to the company " Woodmaster " and they will make you the knives for about 25.00 on inch. if you need enough molding to support paying for the knives. the Woodmaster planer and molder will reproduce any kind of molding. I have had one for close to 20 years and they are great for reproducing old moldings.


----------



## Homewright (Nov 30, 2012)

Have you checked the insides of your closets to see if they used the same profile on door trims? I've saved a lot of headaches robbing the trim from inside a closet then replacing with something available.


----------

