# Quality screws for white oak



## Haydman6 (Jan 6, 2019)

I am building some white oak furniture and keep breaking off screws. Screws are size 8 and im pre-drilling them to a size 10 hole and still breaking screws. Is there a brand or type of screw I should be buying. I have some silver wood screws and tried drywall screws and they break easily also. Thanks david


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## danrush (Oct 16, 2017)

I use GRK screws for all my cabinet installs. Their #8 r4 screws are a bugle head with drill tip. I still predrill when connecting hardwood stiles, but have never snapped one of theirs screws. (I go through probably 150-200 lbs of various size screws yearly).


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Are you snapping the screws before they are fully seated? Or during the final tightening?


I do not use many screws in woodworking and do not remember ever snapping one off. Have never paid any attention to brand of screws I buy.


George


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Stick with the #8 in a #10 hole and try using a finer (more threads per inch) screw. Screws in White oak are like screws in fiberglass. the hole has to be slightly larger. 
I'm used to doing a lot of boat work and almost always use Stainless Steel screws for almost everything.. You might give that a try. 
Sometimes you might even have better luck with a machine screw as opposed to a wood screw.
White oak is pretty tough stuff. 
Is there some reason why you cant use a glue joint?


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## Pretender (Jun 22, 2019)

Are you sure your pre drilling your holes deep enough?


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## sancho57 (Oct 23, 2011)

Like what has been already said, Never had that happened to me. At least I cant remember it happened.

Are you predrilling deep enough? 

Have you set your drill to the right torque setting?

when you pre drill are you also counter sinking the holes?

Its hard to know by a persons posts what the real answer is, can only offer a few things to look at

Oh just thought of something dont know if you are, but dont use drywall screws.

Im starting to really like torx head screws.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Try lubricating the screws with wax before you drive them. A wax toilet seat ring is a cheap source.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Quickstep said:


> Try lubricating the screws with wax before you drive them. A wax toilet seat ring is a cheap source.



You already have plenty of the cheapest source already around your house. I just use bar soap. Works like a charm.


George


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## TominToledo (Sep 29, 2019)

danrush said:


> I use GRK screws for all my cabinet installs. Their #8 r4 screws are a bugle head with drill tip. I still predrill when connecting hardwood stiles, but have never snapped one of theirs screws. (I go through probably 150-200 lbs of various size screws yearly).


I agree with Dan. GRK is the way to go. You’ll still need to pre-drill. They are the best imo. And rub each screw with a bit of soap from a bar...any brand will do. That’s a trick my Grandfather taught me. It works great. I have a bar of soap sitting near each of my workbenches. Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends. And best wishes to everyone else. Tom


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## chaserchuck (Oct 4, 2019)

*Phillips screws*

Hey Y'all
My first post, but I have made furniture and built houses for a living since 1972. I used dowels for fastening my furniture until I discovered screws. I countersunk the screws 1/4" and used dowels to fill in the countersink. Of course there were only straight head screws back then, so it was still not a cakewalk. I finally switched to screws made by Phillips and also use their screw tips exclusively. Since most stores only sell imported screws now, and hardened steel tips, I order from Phillips directly. Their screw tips are the best I have ever used - I won't even buy a B&D or any black metal tip.

As far as screwing into any hardwood, you have to practice drilling the right sized pilot hole, and the right depth for that particular piece of wood and screw length. It's easier to brak off a screw in a practice piece than the real thing. From experience of trying to deal with a snapped off screw, I also am very careful when I make the final push. Often I will remove the screw if I feel it's getting hard to drive. I will then take the time to redrill the pilot hole to get rid of accumulated stuff, and then screw the screw in again. I am a fan of soap or im my case an old piece of canning wax from my mom that I've been using for 40+ years.

I used screws on this chair when I designed it in 1972, and I still do, as it can be broken down and shipped. The wood in this chair is bloodwood


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm not sure what a #10 hole is, but for #8 screws, I use a 3/16" hole in the first board for the shank, then a 1/8" pilot hole for the threads. White oak, maple, red oak, ash, doesn't matter. But you do have to go the depth of the screw. If you are 1/4" short of the screw length, that last 1/4" could snap your screw.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I have been wondering whether the drill is tapered or straight.


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

Try a bit specifically designed for counter sinking #8 wood screws or a universal counter sink bit with an adjustable lenth drill bit. I work with a lot of red and white oak and rearly break a screw and I use a fairly cheap sink plated screw from Mcfeely's. They are a good source for screws, counter sink bits and many other fastener needs.


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## bob493 (Nov 13, 2019)

Im in the "never broke a screw" camp here. I've never even entertained screw "quality" in this sense, as either its getting doweled in, or purely structural. I use deck screws and drywall screws almost exclusively. I use those self tapping pan heads for when i want some "oomf", but yeah I cant say ive ever broken a steel screw. If you're torquing that much, I'd imagine you're doing structural damage to the wood too, or not drilling properly. Hate to call this out as a technique error, but unless youre painfully unlucky with screws, then it might be time to reevaluate your techniques. 


Now brass screws on the other hand.... yeesh.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

It is too lengthy an explanation so I started another thread.

https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/screws-hard-wood-101-a-216001/#post2082057


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> You already have plenty of the cheapest source already around your house. I just use bar soap. Works like a charm.
> 
> 
> George



Soap sounds like a better lubricant, but when I tried using soap, it flaked out of the threads; that’s why I switched to wax.


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## Haydman6 (Jan 6, 2019)

Thanks guys lots of good tips. I’m building a mission bed and the only thing I’m using screws on is to connect the cleats to the rails. just to give them an extra support for the glue. The rest of the bed is all mortise and tenon‘s. Ill head to Home Depot and get some of those GRK screws for sure. I’ve been drilling pilot holes to the exact length of the screw but I think I will start adding an eighth of an inch more and start using wax on My screws for hardwood. I’ve been using sappy countersink bits size for number 10 screws. I try to use mortise and tenon also dovetails on the majority of my joints. Thanks again for all the good information I will put it to use


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Quickstep said:


> Soap sounds like a better lubricant, but when I tried using soap, it flaked out of the threads; that’s why I switched to wax.



You do not use soap from the hard part of the bar. You use from soft area and you will have no problem.


Geprge


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Quickstep said:


> Soap sounds like a better lubricant, but when I tried using soap, it flaked out of the threads; that’s why I switched to wax.



You do not use from hard part of bar. Use from softer part and there will be no problem.


People have been using this trick for generations. My father taught me this 70 years ago.


George


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> You do not use from hard part of bar. Use from softer part and there will be no problem.
> 
> 
> People have been using this trick for generations. My father taught me this 70 years ago.
> ...



My soap (new bar) doesn’t have a soft spot.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Yes, good quality screws are a must. I use GRK but also use Spax quite a bit. No doubt the GRK is a better quality screw.



Be sure its a tapered drill and overdrill about 1/8". Also, be sure the hold in the board being attached is large enough to allow the screw to spin freely or else the resulting gap will cause an issue.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Couple thoughts:

Like everything else these days there are those products on the shelves that are not worth bring home, unfortunately many screws fall into that category. Two things happen with crappy screws if they do not have proper pilot holes, they break or the head strips before the screw is set. Square drive coated screws are best driven with a bit specially designed to be used with them.

Another problem is that the driver bits also very in quality, a worn out driver bit in a high powered drill or impact will often strip out the head if there is too much resistance.

Drywall screws are for installing drywall, nothing else as tempting as it may be.

Moral of the story, buy quality and learn the proper technique.


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

This is the screw chart I use.
I use bees wax on my screws... I rub onto the threads and roll the wax into the screw threads between my finger and thumb prior to screwing into a pilot hole.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks for the screw chart, that’s handy. I’ve printed it and will hang it in the shop.


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## Claire Sparrow (Dec 18, 2018)

Liquid dish soap will also work.


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## [email protected] (Mar 13, 2019)

As far as working with brass screws go I simply use a steel screw of the same size first, being careful to predrill and using wax. I screw it in with a hand screwdriver. Then I remove the steel screw and replace it with a brass one. By using a screwdriver instead of a driver-drill I get a better feel for how much torque it's taking to turn the screw. BTW: slotted screws don't came-out as much as Phillip's head screws.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

Just a quick note about pre-threading with steel screws. Make sure the threads of the steel screws are the same as the threads on the brass screws. Using the steel screws is like threading a hole in metal with a tap.


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## jorma (Feb 24, 2016)

FrankC said:


> Drywall screws are for installing drywall, nothing else as tempting as it may be.


 Really, how come.?
I am not a carpenter or furniture builder, but i have used self-tapping "Drywall" screws in Birch, Maple, Oak and Dogwood. They always worked fine.
So called "Drywall Screws" could be driven into 101 different things that might be behind the rock.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

The drywall screws are treated to prevent corrosion. This treating makes them weak. And if you think about it, it is so easy to "pop" a drywall screw through the wall board. However if using a drywall screw to pull two pieces wood together, you'll more than likely snap the screw.


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## Haydman6 (Jan 6, 2019)

For me drywall screws on white oak have been a disaster. Even with oversize drill in the pilot holes, I learned my lesson. I went and bought some spax screws because they were made in the USA. I ran a couple into White Oak with no pilot hole with no breakage. Looks like I found a new supply screws made in the USA.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

jorma said:


> Really, how come.?
> I am not a carpenter or furniture builder, but i have used self-tapping "Drywall" screws in Birch, Maple, Oak and Dogwood. They always worked fine.
> So called "Drywall Screws" could be driven into 101 different things that might be behind the rock.


Drywall screws are brittle and offer very little shear strength so they are not recommended for general use.


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## jorma (Feb 24, 2016)

FrankC said:


> Drywall screws are brittle and offer very little shear strength so they are not recommended for general use.


 Wow. I had no idea.:surprise2:
Then again, are all of those black screws a "Drywall Screw" .?


I do not think i have ever broken the head off of one of those screws, with a battery drill, going into hard woods, with no pilot hole.



I have seen countless carpenters hang uppers, with those screws for 30 years.
Those Ply or MDF cabinets are heavy.


I have a set of uppers that have been in my garage for 20 years. 

They are HEAVY, with P-Lam outsides and melamine on the inside. All of the cleats that the cabs hang on are screwed in with just a few drywall screws.


Why are those screws so brittle.?
Thank You


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

No, not all black screws are drywall screws, only those labelled as such, flooring and trim screws come immediately to mind as other types.

A new house in some jurisdictions with upper cabinets fastened with drywall screws will not pass inspection.

As for brittle, read post #29.


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## jorma (Feb 24, 2016)

FrankC said:


> No, not all black screws are drywall screws, only those labelled as such, flooring and trim screws come immediately to mind as other types.
> 
> A new house in some jurisdictions with upper cabinets fastened with drywall screws will not pass inspection.
> 
> As for brittle, read post #29.


 I see... thank you. :wink:
Obviously then, what i saw for 30 years in San Francisco was the use of a much better screw than a "Drywall Screw".....it was also used for drywall, just to avoid the hassle of stocking two different screws, and also to avoid the mistake of what you guys have been describing. 


Thanks Again :smile2:


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## LilysDad (Dec 21, 2019)

I've been told that soap is hygroscopic and will eventually rust the screws. However, I have never actually disassembled a joint to check. I just stick with wax.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

LilysDad said:


> I've been told that soap is hygroscopic and will eventually rust the screws. However, I have never actually disassembled a joint to check. I just stick with wax.


Welcome to the forum! Head on over to the Introduction area and tell us a little about yourself.

I have a couple of blocks of Beeswax and I use it all the time on drywall screws going into hardwoods, also on brass and every other kind of screw going into MDF, Baltic Birch, Walnut, Maple, etc. and have never had a problem as long as I predrill. But that's just good practice anyway.

David


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Not all drywall screws are created equal. Several years ago I was doing a project (don’t remember which one) and was running low on drywall screws from one of the big box home centers (brand A). Stopped at the other home center and bought a replacement box of drywall screws (brand B). Had a terrible time with them. Kept twisting the heads off on many of them. Very frustrating. I then went and bought a box of the original brand A screws and finished the project without any issues. Never realized before the the difference in screws. Now I only use drywall screws for drywall and construction screws or the appropriate screw for everything else.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> As far as working with brass screws go I simply use a steel screw of the same size first, being careful to predrill and using wax. I screw it in with a hand screwdriver. Then I remove the steel screw and replace it with a brass one. By using a screwdriver instead of a driver-drill I get a better feel for how much torque it's taking to turn the screw. BTW: slotted screws don't came-out as much as Phillip's head screws.


What is the difference between slotted screws and Phillip's head screws that the slotted screws don't come out as much?


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## WesTex (Jan 5, 2014)

I think he meant “cam out “. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

LilysDad said:


> I've been told that soap is hygroscopic and will eventually rust the screws. However, I have never actually disassembled a joint to check. I just stick with wax.


Yes, there is a lot of discussion about this, probably not worth changing any minds here, so just stick with the wax. :smile2:


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