# Trying to pop the grain on Maple



## L1011 (Feb 18, 2013)

Hi all... newbie here. This is my first attempt at trying to finish a piece of maple and am having difficulty. 

I'm trying to recreate this look from Mark Spagnuolo's Wood Whisperer page (http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/pop-goes-the-maple/) for a cribbage board I'm trying to make as a Father's Day gift. 

I bought the exact ingredients used in that video (Vintage Maple Transtint Dye, Zinsser Bullseye Sealcoat, and Seal-A-Cell) and mixed the Shellac and Dye together, applied it to my Maple board, and let it dry for an hour. 

Here's where I'm having trouble. I went to sand the board using 220-grit as shown in the video, and now my board looks awful. 

Here's a pic after sanding: 








It looks terrible. My question is, how much sanding am I supposed to do? The WW says to sand "pretty aggressively" so I did. As you can see, it looks awful. 

I don't have a planer to cut off of the finish and start over... Any advice on what to do next? Scrap it and buy a new board? How can I avoid a repeat of this next time? My grain did not "pop" hardly at all :thumbdown:

As an experiment, I tried applying the same stuff to an Oak piece of scrap and I only lightly sanded it (barely at all). 

Here's what it looks like: 







At least I can see the grain popping in the Oak scrap. I think if I were to apply the Seal-A-Cell (oil finish) now to the Maple piece, it would look hideous. I'm a bit frustrated. Granted, The WW is an expert, but this didn't look too difficult, yet I'm stinking at it big time.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

The color is mostly in the finish and some penetrated into the wood.
Sand the surface down with 220 until you are back to bare wood and start all over. 
I am not familiar with those products so I cant help there. I will say this though. I usually don't sand until after the 2nd coat and even then - no more that 2 light passes. Normally 1 pass is enough.

Keep in mind that any finish mixed with any dye or stain will not be totally clear. Like looking through milky water. 
I would apply the dye to the wood first and then clear coat. 

I know that the dye does not have the same suspended particles as a stain but the dye will still mute the finish. It probably shouldn't, but it does. Generally mixing a finish with a dye or stain is referred to as a toner.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I have used Transtint dye mixed with shellac and have been happy with the result.

Do you have a piece of quilted maple, or am I seeing planer marks from the factory planing?

The seal-a-coat is a dewaxed shellac, so that any finish can be applied on top.

I am with Tony B. Sand back to bare wood is the only way to try and correct.

Different experts have different processes. Charles Neil says to only sand to 150-180 grit. Don't you love the consistent of the experts - NOT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWCptCxNx4I

If all else fails, send me the board and I will run through my drum sander and get this back to bare wood. I can even apply the stain for you if you include the Transtint dye. I have the seal-a-coat.


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## L1011 (Feb 18, 2013)

I actually don't know what Quilted Maple is.  The board was from Lowe's and it looked pretty nice so I thought it would be a good candidate for popping the grain. I'm going to sand it bare and try again but with much less sanding after applying the Shellac this time. The marks that occurred were a result of me sanding after applying the Shellac. I'm thinking I may not have given it enough time to dry as there was some smearing that occurred when I sanded. Thank you for the offer to plane it for me!

As a general question, is the method used by the WW to "pop the grain" for Maple apply to other light-colored woods like Oak, Birch, etc? 

Although I like Maple, I might try making the cribbage board out of Oak and wanted to try the exact same process that I used on the Maple (i.e. Transtint Dye in Shellac, then the oil finish).


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## 4reel (Mar 3, 2013)

*Poping without dye*

We live in a town that thrives on antiques. Federal Restoration is about a block from me. I had some work done there and the lady that answered the same question you did does all their staining etc. I have been making jewelry boxes from figured maple and needed a hint. She said to sand to 120 then wet the surface. When dry sand with 220 and then clean. she uses linseed oil and then finishes over that. I have also tried Tung Oil and it has a similar but not as dark coloration. I do not like dies since they are not what the wood coloring is naturally. Am I a purist, no, but hard to beat what God has made.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

L1011 said:


> I actually don't know what Quilted Maple is.  The board was from Lowe's and it looked pretty nice so I thought it would be a good candidate for popping the grain. I'm going to sand it bare and try again but with much less sanding after applying the Shellac this time.
> 
> As a general question, is the method used by the WW to "pop the grain" for Maple apply to other light-colored woods like Oak, Birch, etc?
> 
> Although I like Maple, I might try making the cribbage board out of Oak and wanted to try the exact same process that I used on the Maple (i.e. Transtint Dye in Shellac, then the oil finish).


Always helps to have more information.

I would not try this on an open grained wood like white/red oak or ash. The open grain will likely take a lot more of the dye than you want.

If you got the maple from Lowes, I think I am seeing planer marks, if so the surface is not as smooth as desired.

The Wood Whisperer project used curly maple. There is also quilted maple, and other variation.

Phind's site has excellent pictures and information.

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/#letterM

Popping the grain is normally done when a wood species has some end grain appearing within the face grain. Classic is curly maple.

Regular face grain maple does not have much to pop.

The transtint dye can add colour, but there is no end grain to pop.

If I am correct and the board has planer marks, this is why your sanding made it look not so good.

For this face grain board, sand back to bare wood, make your dye and shellac, but this time I would not attempt to sand to pop the grain which does not likely exist. Just apply a second coat if you want more colour.

Then apply the finish as desired.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

4reel said:


> We live in a town that thrives on antiques. Federal Restoration is about a block from me. I had some work done there and the lady that answered the same question you did does all their staining etc. I have been making jewelry boxes from figured maple and needed a hint. She said to sand to 120 then wet the surface. When dry sand with 220 and then clean. she uses linseed oil and then finishes over that. I have also tried Tung Oil and it has a similar but not as dark coloration. I do not like dies since they are not what the wood coloring is naturally. Am I a purist, no, but hard to beat what God has made.


+1. :yes: Pretty much what I do. I don't mix dye or stain with any sealers onto bare wood. I would use BLO mixed 50/50 with VM&P naptha. Wipe on...leave for a few minutes, and wipe off. When cured, I would spray thin applications of waterbase polyurethane.









 







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