# Porch Floor - tongue and groove



## RunForestRun (Aug 1, 2019)

I will be installing a tongue and groove pine porch floor. It's a covered porch, and gets maybe 1 hour of sun per day and when it rains it does get wet. Looking for advice on finishing it. My wife wants a dark stain, so i decided i would do a dark stain  (been married long enough to know). The only thing i've done thus far with the wood planks is dip them in the WoodLife Classic preservative for 2 minute per board.

I bought a sample of the Behr Semi-transparent stain and tried it on an extra plank i had and didn't like the overall look. it was not uniform in and had a few bubbles, despite my carefulness in applying a thin coat. 

After reading some of the posts i've thought about an outdoor stain (recommendations appreciated) and a marine spar (Cabot).

I've also got a few knot holes to fill and just purchased some Famowood Wood Filler. I've a little nervous about this since there doesn't seem to be any good wood filler's that take a stain well.

Thanks in advance for thoughts and ideas.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Pine just isn't a suitable wood for what you are doing. A semi-transparent stain for a finish is intended for an exterior type wood such as western cedar. Pine will rot unless you put a film finish on it. You could use a marine grade spar varnish but you would have to also coat the edges of the tongue and groove as well as the underside and ends to prevent rot. The best spar would be Epifanes. It's available at places that sell boat supplies. A less expensive spar I would recommend is Cabot spar varnish.


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## RunForestRun (Aug 1, 2019)

Thank you. Is there anything better than spar for end prep (e.g. epoxy)?


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

RunForestRun said:


> ...I will be installing a tongue and groove pine porch floor. It's a covered porch, and gets maybe 1 hour of sun per day and when it rains it does get wet. Looking for advice on finishing it. My wife wants a dark stain, so i decided i would do a dark stain  (been married long enough to know). The only thing i've done thus far with the wood planks is dip them in the WoodLife Classic preservative for 2 minute per board. ...


Hello RFR,

This reads like it is going to be a very nice space to enjoy time on!

*Pine is an excellent and common species* found on porches, barn floor and other outbuildings. 

It is soft, by nature, in most species of it thus it does mar to some degree however if finished properly this will only add charm the older it gets. I just was working on a threshing floor in a Dutch Barn that is over 275 years old all made off White Pine that rang in plank width from 12" up to +30" wide. Its patina and ware marks are beautiful, and needless to say it has seen centuries of livestock, snowy and raining days (and dripping wagons) not to mention the beating it took from threshing...

The porch floors made of Yellow Pine I've restored over the decades are another excellent example of this species charm, beauty and excellence in such applications.

I would (if you haven't done anything yet?) have your wife look at a method called Yakesugi - 焼杉

If she likes the look, shoot me an email and I can talk you through several very simple applications methods that will cost nothing but a little time and some fire for you to do some "test boards" that are both traditional, enduring and gives an effect you can't get out of "store can." 



RunForestRun said:


> ...I bought a sample of the Behr Semi-transparent stain and tried it on an extra plank i had and didn't like the overall look. it was not uniform in and had a few bubbles, despite my carefulness in applying a thin coat. After reading some of the posts i've thought about an outdoor stain (recommendations appreciated) and a marine spar (Cabot).
> ...


*"Film Finish"...especially the modern plastic ones are the worst thing you can do to wood like this outdoors or indoors!!!*

I only make my own finishes and don't use (or recommend) most of the "modern crud" being pedaled by sellers today. So I'm of no use to you on this topic if going with "big box store" methods. 

If you want an outstanding traditional finish for your project that I have used for over 30 years look at what Heritage Finishes has to offer. Autumn (owner) is an excellent source for both traditional blends and the raw materials a I use in my own finishes. 

Dwayne (owner) of The Real Milk Paint Co. is another excellent source for pigments and finishes (natural not unadulterated like you find in paint stores and "big box stores") is another wonderful source of information and materials for traditional finishes.



RunForestRun said:


> ...I've also got a few knot holes to fill and just purchased some Famowood Wood Filler. I've a little nervous about this since there doesn't seem to be any good wood filler's that take a stain well. Thanks in advance for thoughts and ideas....


For floors or any "high ware" area I do not recommend fillers and they simply will not hold up at all and typically fail in just a short period of time. There are some advance epoxy "historic conservation" methods that are used for some projects but the looks is clearly demarcated from the original materials (which is the goal) and won't take a stain.

If doing an actual "restoration" (or in your case repair of "dead" knot holes) then I would recommend a traditional wood patch (what some like to call a "Dutchman patch") and there are several modalities and systems for this I could share if you are open to more traditional (aka durable and applicable) work...

Good luck and let me know if I can expand on anything?

j


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Pine just isn't a suitable wood for what you are doing....


Sorry...History and reality would respectfully very much disagree with that statement....


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> Sorry...History and reality would respectfully very much disagree with that statement....


So, all the rotting pine porches means nothing? You can't say maintenance it a lot because nobody does that anymore. People will build a porch and won't think about it again until someone steps through it.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> So, all the rotting pine porches means nothing? You can't say maintenance it a lot because nobody does that anymore. People will build a porch and won't think about it again until someone steps through it.


It does mean exactly that Steve...*lack of proper maintenance*...

If someone is *too lazy* to take care of what they own...*that's not the wood's fault*....that is the owners sloth and complacency. Not an issue I can either fix or address...but agree too many are this way today...:sad2:

Simply put, *there is nothing wrong or incorrect with a pine porch the OP has selected*...Its common practice, beautiful in affect and quite durable even with a modicum of maintenance.

Even something like White Pine...seen too many very old ones for there to be an issue with them. I even have roofed timber frames with White Pine shingles and these can last over a century when...MAINTAINED...which is neither difficult or that time consuming by comparison...unless one calls a cup of coffee and a walk around a porch or 3 cups and a climb onto there roof to spray on some oil...

The threshing floor I wrote about is very old...*it is white pine...and has no finish on it at all!* Only a few plank by the doors had to be repaired or replaced in centuries of very hard use...so, I will stand firmly by post...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> It does mean exactly that Steve...*lack of proper maintenance*...
> 
> If someone is *too lazy* to take care of what they own...*that's not the wood's fault*....that is the owners sloth and complacency. Not an issue I can either fix or address...but agree too many are this way today...:sad2:
> 
> ...


My point was if a person used a wood that was itself resistant to water damage they would be better off. I recommend pressure treated to my customers. People today are either lazy or too busy with other interests to do any maintenance.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> My point was if a person used a wood that was itself resistant to water damage they would be better off. I recommend pressure treated to my customers. People today are either lazy or too busy with other interests to do any maintenance.


I agree on the "lazy" and on the "do any maintenance" when it comes to the common person...but... that has nothing to do (it would seem to me?) with this OP's wood choice or the majority of the member/readers of this forum...

For me, I follow the OP's lead in what they are requesting for information...or...I don't post anything if I can't be of some service to them.

As for the other readers I try to guide them in the direction of what I know works from my rather respectable (and tangible) experience..and not cater to the "lazy" nor those that don't want to get off there "back sides" to properly take care of something they (or others?) took the time to create...

We can "agree to disagree" on the pressure treated (worthless in my experience) and whether pine makes a good porch floor...again History proves my point there ten fold...

I look forward to reading more from the OP since this is their thread!


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

Let me put it this way, Don't build the porch with T&G. 

My father did that. He just extended the floor of the room T&G out to the porch and put the wall across in the appropriate place. 2/3 of the porch was covered but got wet. In 2 years he had to replace the 1/3 that wasn't covered and after another year the remaining 2/3 had to be replaced. The flooring was protected with oil based deck paint.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

I haven't read all the posts, so please excuse if this is redundant.


Most of this depends on the area you live in but where am SE US, I would have to consider: termites & issues with wood movement. 


Keep in mind the rapid growth, young pine we have today is much different than the pine found in the 200+ yr old barns and houses.


But you'll probably do OK with it. Is this going over a subfloor or directly on joists?


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## RunForestRun (Aug 1, 2019)

This is going directly on floor joists.


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## RunForestRun (Aug 1, 2019)

Appreciate all the feedback, I like to hear the pros and cons. I’ve already purchased the flooring so I’m locked in on that. The current floor is original to the house (built 1981). It appears to be pine also. It’s not in bad shape except for the corners and I have load bearing posts there so replacement is necessary. The previous owner just painted the surface. I ordered a sample of the Real Milk Paint Dark Tung Oil. I’m going to give that a try. Their customer service is great by the way. Again, appreciate the insight , concerns, advice.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I’m about to replace a painted T&G porch floor (untreated) that’s about ten years old and rotten in multiple places. The porch is covered, but does get wet. I’m planning to use Kiln Dried After Treatment T&G and paint it once again. I hope the PT holds up better than the first go round. 

That said, I also just had some PT 6x6’s in a retaining wall (ground contact) replaced because they had gone rotten. It’s about 8 years old. I think 8 or so years ago was when the switch over from CCA was going on and the new PT wasn’t so great. At least that’s what I’m hoping relative to the PT I’m
Planning to use on the porch. 

I’d welcome some suggestions for other T&G materials for my porch job. I thought about IPE, but I couldn’t find in in T&G and I think it doesn’t hold paint. The same is true for teak, but that wasn’t happening anyway. It seems like Oak will expand too much. What else is there?


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I would think that the pressure treated would be juxt fine. As for the old 6X6's, ground contact is a totally different story. Ground contact contats borers, insects, termited and other un pleasantries. I'm under the impresssion that PTis mainly protection from water and not soil borne wood eaters. 
I'm a furniture guy not a construction guy so please correct me if I am wrong. I promise I will not implode.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

RunForestRun said:


> ...I ordered a sample of the Real Milk Paint Dark Tung Oil. I’m going to give that a try. Their customer service is great by the way. Again, appreciate the insight , concerns, advice.


I don't think you will be disappointed with this choice. Its not quite as durable as the blended oils with beeswax and rosin in it from Heritage...so...if you do like the color, I would recommend 3 coats minimum. Application is easy...!!!...I use a spray bottle (on mist) and a rag...that's it! I recommend annual touch up in the same method. Supper easy to do, and if continued the floor can last centuries...

Your are right again Dwayne's team of people in CS are fantastic!

Good luck, and let me know if I can expand on anything...

j


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What most people do is take the raw T&G flooring and nail it down and then think about the finish. By doing that pretty much the face is all that gets a finish. Then water seeps through the cracks and gets the edges and bottom sides of the board wet and damages it. You could make it more durable if you would finish the edges and back side of the flooring prior to laying it. It doesn't have to be the same quality of finish as the face but it would help to make sure the wood is sealed.


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