# Out of ideas on Grizzly bandsaw



## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Grizzly G1019 bandsaw giving me fits. Bought this used some time ago, came with one 1/4" blade installed, and 2 new in box blades. When I got it, the blade was running on the extreme front of the wheels, though it stayed put. The guides were miles away from the blade. Adjusted the guides, and worked OK, although the blade wanted to run on the front of the wheels. Later on I installed one of the new blades, and had some difficulty getting it to track, and it ran on the extreme front of the wheels also. 

Contacted Grizzly CS, and the only thing they could tell me was to check if the wheels were coplaner, which they were. Tried reversing the tires, same thing. On a subsequent use, I managed to catch the blade insert with the blade and cut it in half. I mention this because ....

Fast forward to today. Set up to cut some white birch logs. Made one pass, taking off about a 1" X 1-1/2" piece. On the next pass, about 2" into the cut, bang, blade broke. Hence why I mentioned the above cutting the insert, probably why the blade broke. Anyway, grabbed the original used blade and tried to install. After about 20 attempts I gave up. I could find no setting of tension and tracking where that danged belt would stay on the wheels.

Two more things:
1) Don't mention Alex's video - I watched it several times.
2) Note from the pictures that the blade guard will only go up about 1/2 way before it hits the upper wheel. Was there supposed to be a shorter guide to be used with the riser block when the guides are in the upper half of the travel?

Any help/comments appreciated.


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Have you tried new tires?


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## Dandan111 (Oct 29, 2013)

It sounds like he blade was to tight to me. You might have bad guides also.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*we can help*

First, remove the blade guard.
Second, remove the table.
Third, back away all the guides.
Remove the table insert.
Spin the wheels see where the blade rides. Make the correction using the tilt adjustment on the upper wheel. Set the gullets to run on the center of the upper wheel. If you can't get to do that, there is an alignment issue and the wheels may have been moved on the shafts...
OR there is not enough tilt on the tracking mechanism ....
OR the blade is not the correct length.
The lower wheel does not tilt, so the tracking is controlled solely by the upper wheel. The rim on the upper wheel needs to be parallel to the rim of the lower wheel OR co-planer, and not twisted. 
Finally, check the registration on the riser block to be certain the whole assembly is not twisted on the column.

Usually a 14" saw with a riser block takes a 105" long blade. 
Measure the broken one and see what you have.

Let us know what you get. :yes:
This is the BEST video I've seen on bandsaw wheel adjustment!


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I would take a really good look at the riser block, it could be root of problem.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

Alchymist said:


> Grizzly G1019 bandsaw giving me fits. Bought this used some time ago, came with one 1/4" blade installed, and 2 new in box blades. When I got it, the blade was running on the extreme front of the wheels, though it stayed put. The guides were miles away from the blade. Adjusted the guides, and worked OK, although the blade wanted to run on the front of the wheels. Later on I installed one of the new blades, and had some difficulty getting it to track, and it ran on the extreme front of the wheels also.
> 
> Contacted Grizzly CS, and the only thing they could tell me was to check if the wheels were coplaner, which they were. Tried reversing the tires, same thing. On a subsequent use, I managed to catch the blade insert with the blade and cut it in half. I mention this because ....
> 
> ...


you don't want the wheel's co-planer , you want the blade teeth to be in the middle of the top wheel, now set the guides and the back beiring or thrust beiring right, it look like the blade guide is for a saw with a riser on it ? look's to tall ? i know you watched alex but if you set up the saw like he say's you should be ok, the wheel's should have a crown in the middle of the wheel's, but the main thing is the blade's teeth should be in the middle of the wheel and not on the frount of the wheel, if their the blade will want to come off and not track, i have a delta with riser and have mine set this way with the teeth in the middle of the wheel and it work's perfet, i resaw and do other things, use good blades their are a few out their that are good, i want go into that , but orig. and box store stuff not my pick, good luck


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

First off, thanks for all the suggestions, I haven't given up. One thing to keep in mind though - this saw was running with the original 1/4" blade.



Old Skhool said:


> Have you tried new tires?


Not yet; I did reverse the tires so the unworn portion was to the front.



Dandan111 said:


> It sounds like he blade was to tight to me. You might have bad guides also.


I tried all manner of tensions and tracking adjustments, the original blade would not stay on. Blade guides were not touching.




woodnthings said:


> First, remove the blade guard.
> Second, remove the table.
> Third, back away all the guides.
> Remove the table insert.
> ...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*there is diagreement on co-planar wheels*

The Grizzly Video, directly from the manufacturer, says the wheels must be co-planar and parallel and shows how to adjust them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rxfZphxj2eM#t=238

The Alex Snodgrass Videos says the the wheels need not be co-planer, BUT follow the advice of the manufacturer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wGbZqWac0jU#t=359

My understanding is that they should be co-planer at the initial adjustment, but when you adjust the tilt the upper in or out wheel for tracking, they are not EXACTLY co-planar. It's just a small amount of tilt that allows the blade gullets to track on the center of the wheel. 

If the saw in question was working properly at any point, chances are the wheels are set as the manufactured had them. If the saw developed this issue recently and won't track, the wheels being co-planar is not the issue.

I'd look for a broken tension spring, a wrong size or bent blade, or a loose or twisted riser block.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*some further discussion*

When Alex talks about the belt sander in his video, he mentions how the belt tracks and the adjustment knob that will make the belt "fly off". What he doesn't mention is that the axles on the upper and lower drums are parallel in the vertical plane. What the adjustment knob does is raise or lower the axle in it's location, and does not take them out of parallel in that plane, only in the horizontal plane, one end or the other. This is not a good example when referring to the bandsaw wheels and shafts. It's a different animal. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wGbZqWac0jU#t=375

What you don't want are wheels that are not parallel in the vertical plane, that is to say twisted from one another right to left. This would indicate and issue with the riser block OR the tilt adjustment bracket. JMO.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

My thoughts are that the "tracking adjustment" is not not performing it's job. does the blade respond to tracking adjustments, by moving forward and aft on the wheels/tires? Are you running out of tracking adjustment by not being able to get the blade in the tire center? If so, there is something that is out of alignment. I would try a shim in the back of the riser block joint.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Something to try:

You should be able to lay a straight edge across the rim about 3" from edge at the front of the bottom wheel and adjust the top wheel tilt so it also touches top and bottom of rim.

Now move straight edge to back of bottom wheel, it should also touch top and bottom of top wheel. If this is the case wheels are coplanar.

If you can only get wheels to line up on one side the riser block needs to be adjusted to swing top wheel one way or the other.

This may not solve your problem but will give you a starting point.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Put some real tires on it with a good crown


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Resolution:Went out today,removed all the guards, the table, and the riser block cover. Riser block showed no signs of having moved. Took apart the top wheel again, determined there are only 2 adjustments on the top wheel - tension and tilt. The third adjustment with the allen screws shown in the video is not there, There are holes in sliding bracket that carries the wheel, but they are not threaded, and no provisions in the tilt mechanism for lateral movement.

Anyway, put it all back together, the installed my last NEW 1/4" blade. After a couple tries getting it tensioned and adjusted, the blade rides in the middle on the top wheel, and back somewhat further on the lower wheel that it did previously. This gives me confidence it isn't going to run off the bottom wheel! Adjusted all the guides, replaced the table and guards, and it cuts nicely. Even the drift apparent on the old blade is gone. The problem with the blade guard hitting the upper wheel if raised more than half way still exists; I'm thinking a pass or two on the bench grinder might be in order.

Bottom line may just be that the blades were at fault, and my being hesitant to risk the last new one caused most of the pain.

Anyway, thanks again for the many helpful suggestions, and perhaps the thread will help someone else who runs into bandsaw problems.


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Glad to hear that the saw is tracking well. The reason I asked about the tires is that you said you bought the saw used awhile ago. Then you said that you reversed the tires. If the tires are rubber, they should be *glued* to the wheel and be resilient with a *good crown* and mentioned by WarnerCon. Unglued tires can move around under the centrifugal force and cause tracking problems, near the end of their lifespan, and make your heart skip a beat when they finally disintegrate. poly tires do not need to be glued, but are not easy to get on and off. If they are old, I would replace them anyway.

Second thought as mentioned above is that the riser block could have shifted/rotated as you mentioned that the upper blade guard was hitting the wheel. This must have been bumped at some time putting stress on the riser block.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Old Skhool said:


> Glad to hear that the saw is tracking well. The reason I asked about the tires is that you said you bought the saw used awhile ago. Then you said that you reversed the tires. If the tires are rubber, they should be *glued* to the wheel and be resilient with a *good crown* and mentioned by WarnerCon. Unglued tires can move around under the centrifugal force and cause tracking problems, near the end of their lifespan, and make your heart skip a beat when they finally disintegrate. poly tires do not need to be glued, but are not easy to get on and off. If they are old, I would replace them anyway.
> 
> Second thought as mentioned above is that the riser block could have shifted/rotated as you mentioned that the upper blade guard was hitting the wheel. This must have been bumped at some time putting stress on the riser block.


The tires are a plastic composition of some type (poly?) and are quit difficult to get off and on, and I doubt they will slip, nor are they worn much. As to the guard, It looks like just an interference from the longer (riser kit) guard, as the original would have been about 1/2 as long, and in the full upright position would not have reached the wheel. The guard does not hit the wheel now until about 6-7 inches off the table. I doubt it's been bent, as it attaches to the hex bar that rides in the casting, and the guard itself is straight. Could be a case of the wrong guard for the saw. There seems to be not enough space between the rimof the wheel and the housing. Who knows.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

*Update:*

I have used the saw with the 1/4" blade for some time without any tracking problems, the blade continued to ride on the front edge of the lower wheel, though it never moved forward, so it obviously didn't come off.

Fast forward to today - a while back I picked up a 3/4" 3 TPI carbon steel blade from Grizzly, as I wanted to do some resawing when it got warm. Today I attempted to install it. No dice, I spent almost an hour trying to get it to track. Same story as originally - runs off the front of the bottom wheel when adjusted to track on the top wheel, or off the back of the top wheel when adjusted to run on the bottom wheel. ^^*_&*&* - back to square one.:wallbash:

Long story short- should have paid more attention to FrankC's post! :yes:


FrankC said:


> I would take a really good look at the riser block, it could be root of problem.


I tore the whole dang thing apart. The riser block has 2 dowel pins on diagonal corners both top and bottom. Turned the riser block 180, could see no difference in alignment. Turned it upside down, looked the same. Finally decided it was try anything time, so I removed one of the dowel pins on the top of the riser block. Bolted it back together with just the very slightest twist to the top casting (actually it looks parallel to the riser block edge, where it didn't before). 

Threw the new blade on, and it tracked easily, took just a few seconds to adjust. !!! Adjusted all the guides, put the table back on, and off to the races. Tried a couple cuts on a 2X4 held vertically, cut smoothly, square, and no apparent drift. Happy so far. 

Not too sure what to do about the missing dowel pin, and wondering what will happen when I put the 1/4" blade back on. :clover:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Well at least it's working now......


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

with the 3/4" blade...


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

I'd suggest that you look at the owner's manual for the grizzly and go through their diagnostics. They're quite thorough.

I just bought a used Jet 14", which might be the same as your saw. My blade was also coming off the front. I never even turned on the motor, I just watched it track as I spun the wheels manually (with the motor belt disconnected to reduce friction).

I used a straight-edge in an 'X' orientation (not exactly horizontal, and not exactly vertical either). This was to check the alignment between both wheels, and found the upper wheel was out of alignment going left to right (up and down it was OK if you adjusted the tilt mechanism).

What I found was that the tension/tilt mechanism for the upper wheel had 2 cracked castings. This allowed the top wheel to be out of alignment with the bottom wheel.

I think that 'sliding bracket assembly' could be a weak spot on some of these import saws, as I saw quite a few of these parts had been sold on ebay. The only way you can see this mechanism is if you remove the upper wheel.

Might be something to consider. It's pretty easy to remove the upper wheel.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

pweller said:


> I'd suggest that you look at the owner's manual for the grizzly and go through their diagnostics. They're quite thorough.
> See post #1.
> I just bought a used Jet 14", which might be the same as your saw. My blade was also coming off the front. I never even turned on the motor, I just watched it track as I spun the wheels manually (with the motor belt disconnected to reduce friction).
> 
> ...


As soon as I get through resawing the dozen or so birch half-logs, (if I do ), I'll put the 1/4" back on and see what happens.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*dang riser block was twisted!*

Post 4


woodnthings said:


> Finally, check the registration on the riser block to be certain the whole assembly is not twisted on the column.
> Let us know what you get. :yes:


Post 5


FrankC said:


> I would take a really good look at the riser block, it could be root of problem.


Post 8


woodnthings said:


> I'd look for a broken tension spring, a wrong size or bent blade, or a loose or twisted riser block.


Post 20


Alchymist said:


> Fast forward to today -
> I tore the whole dang thing apart. * I removed one of the dowel pins on the top of the riser block. Bolted it back together with just the very slightest twist to the top casting (actually it looks parallel to the riser block edge, where it didn't before). *
> 
> Tried a couple cuts on a 2X4 held vertically, cut smoothly, square, and no apparent drift. Happy so far. :clover:


Good advice for anyone having similar issues. :yes:


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

You really have to wonder how 3 cast iron pieces, (base, riser block, top casting) machined and assembled with steel locating pins can get out of alignment. Saw must be 10 years old, so perhaps internal stress in the castings finally moved things enough to affect alignment? Something like this would be among the last possibilities to cross one's mind?


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

That misalignment from a worn upper bearing block mentioned earlier would have the same effect as a twisted riser block. Don't throw away that pin you pulled until you verify the upper block is good.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Gary Beasley said:


> That misalignment from a worn upper bearing block mentioned earlier would have the same effect as a twisted riser block. Don't throw away that pin you pulled until you verify the upper block is good.


??? Which message was that, and/or what's an "upper bearing block"? Sorry, BS newbie here.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

SteveEl said:


> ??? Which message was that, and/or what's an "upper bearing block"? Sorry, BS newbie here.


"Assuming" they mean #19 in the picture.


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

Alchymist said:


> "Assuming" they mean #19 in the picture.


Right. All points of wear should be accounted for. Unless that riser block was not made by Grizzly there shouldn't be problems , barring a Monday morning brainfart at the factory. Of course the easy way to check that is to yank the upper pully back and forth with the blade off. If it moves more than a smidgeon it's worth a closer look.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Gary Beasley said:


> Right. All points of wear should be accounted for. Unless that riser block was not made by Grizzly there shouldn't be problems , barring a Monday morning brainfart at the factory. Of course the easy way to check that is to yank the upper pully back and forth with the blade off. If it moves more than a smidgeon it's worth a closer look.


Been all over that upper assembly with a fine tooth comb, to no avail. More I think about it, more I wonder. Was this saw a victim of a twisted casting from the factory, (or thereafter)? That would explain the lack of wear over most of the parts - original owner slowly became frustrated and finally dumped it? Guess proof of the pudding will be when I put the 1/4" blade back on it.

Interestingly enough the parts diagram only show one steel dowel in the base casting, while there is obviously two in the machine. :huh:


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I don't know what I'm talking about .... this is total WAG, but what the hell?

Wheels really round, and spin true? (I gotta true my bike wheels which is why I ask)
Could the bearings or axle thingie themselves be out of spec, and maybe you don't know that unless blade has tension? 
How about cracks that only show under tension? The engine block fixer guys have neat tricks for looking for cracks.

Just how high is the upper guide when you were doing those "logs" with the 1/4" blade? This is a BS newbie comment for sure.... If you whacked off just the edge of a large diam log with the guides far apart, isn't that pushing what a 1/4" blade can do?

3 points make a plane.... if you can identify enough points, could you project some lines say, to the wall or something, to look for error not easily seen from top to bottom on the saw itself?

Probably blowin' smoke, here. Time to p/u the kid anyway....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the wheels are each in 2 axis*

There is the vertical axis, up and down and the horizontal axis, right to left. They can be in the same vertical plane, staggered front to back, but not in the same horizontal plane. A twisted riser block will put them out of horizontal alignment, while keeping the vertical. A twisted or broken upper wheel mounting block will do the same. 

How can you check for this? I have a 24" level with a red dot laser on one end. If I placed the level horizontally across each rim and it lined up on the same vertical line, like a door opening that would be one method. Since the lower wheel is more or less the reference, because it can not be tilted, then you would start there. Extend or sight down the plane of the rims to see if they are parallel. Some guys have taken a flat sheet of plywood/particle board and mounted equally sized blocks to offset for the axle hubs so see if they are in the same plane.

Regardless, it's an interesting issue and hopefully it has been resolved! :yes:


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Glad to hear that you found a fix. :thumbsup:

Mine was doing the exact same thing and I ended up removing the wing nut on the tilt control and replacing it with a thin nut. That gave me enough travel to keep the blade centered on the tire.

Now as for that guard hitting the wheel. I have the riser on my saw and it came with both a longer post and a two piece guard. I can shorten my guard as needed when resawing tall stock, however, if I want to run it at its max, I have to remove the guard completely as it doesn't go down far enough to clear the housing around the top wheel.

Your guard looks to be only one piece. Perhaps Grizzly can sell you the two piece guard and that should solve the problem.


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

Any chance the blade guard can be mounted with spacers so it runs up on the outside of the upper wheel guard?


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Gave the saw a workout today. Resawed the birch pieces I saved from last summer. The thick ones were about all the saw wanted to handle. The 5 or 6" or more cuts tended to bog the 3/4 hp motor. But I worked through it, it's all cut and stacked and stickered. Was pretty dry, so should be usable soon. Some spalting, some nice grain .....not real big pieces, but usable. Next comes the jointing, planing & ripping. Guessing 1/3 of th wood ends up as scrap or shavings and sawdust!


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Alchymist said:


> Been all over that upper assembly with a fine tooth comb, to no avail. More I think about it, more I wonder. Was this saw a victim of a twisted casting from the factory, (or thereafter)? That would explain the lack of wear over most of the parts - original owner slowly became frustrated and finally dumped it? Guess proof of the pudding will be when I put the 1/4" blade back on it.


And the pudding is quite tasty! Today I needed the 1/4" blade back on. Released the tension, removed the 3/4" blade, installed the 1/4", tensioned it, and checked the tracking. Spun the wheels by hand, tracked ok. Adjusted the guides, fired it up, tracks perfectly. Never touched the tracking adjustment! :clap: And away we go!:scooter:


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## Mikey_S (Jun 29, 2017)

Alchymist said:


> And the pudding is quite tasty! Today I needed the 1/4" blade back on. Released the tension, removed the 3/4" blade, installed the 1/4", tensioned it, and checked the tracking. Spun the wheels by hand, tracked ok. Adjusted the guides, fired it up, tracks perfectly. Never touched the tracking adjustment! :clap: And away we go!:scooter:


Sorry for the resurrection of an old thread but I can't send pm's yet! lol.

Alchymist:

Would you happen to have the original manual to it or a scanned copy - I'm trying to figure out what in gods name the previous owner did to this thing to make the bottom wheel have a slight wobble and the current g1019 manual on grizzly is for a much later model than ours with different wheels. Mine has some odd plastic spacer between the bearing and the wheel - and it just seems odd to have a plastic spacer there, not really what you'd expect to find at a wear point like that. Seems the most likely culprit for the bottom wheel wobble.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Mine is copyrighted 1991, and the lower wheel assembly does not show any plastic washer. Two bearings, bolt, snap ring, flat washer & nut. I can scan the drawing if that will help.


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## Mikey_S (Jun 29, 2017)

Alchymist said:


> Mine is copyrighted 1991, and the lower wheel assembly does not show any plastic washer. Two bearings, bolt, snap ring, flat washer & nut. I can scan the drawing if that will help.


That would be amazing thank you! Even just a nice clean and readable cell phone pic.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

64 -snap ring, 66 -Bearing, 6204-2RS, 141-flat washer, P1019141, 68 -Hex nut - 3/4-16.

List says hex nut, pictorial shows bolt. Probably have to download pic to see it clearly. 
Hope this helps.


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## Mikey_S (Jun 29, 2017)

Alchymist said:


> 64 -snap ring, 66 -Bearing, 6204-2RS, 141-flat washer, P1019141, 68 -Hex nut - 3/4-16.
> 
> List says hex nut, pictorial shows bolt. Probably have to download pic to see it clearly.
> Hope this helps.


You rock thank you so much!

Also just to see how much these changed - from 87-91 Mine has the annoying upper guide bracket on the upper arm instead of just the hole. Very odd design, seems deltas from that time or older also had it. Wonder why they did that.


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