# Square Drive vs Phillips Drive screws



## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

I have just and I mean just started using square head drive screws.
The first few were Pocket holes made with Kreig for joining. No Problems. No. 8 screws 1-1/4 and 2-1/2" .
Today I tried some No. 7 1-5/8". The first few went into 3/4" pine with no problem. Then I hit a spot where the last 1/4" of the screw stopped and the bit just spun. I went to another screw and it spun out at about 1/4" from the head.
By that time, the two No.7 heads were rounded and could not be reversed and the *bit *was rounded and could no longer be used.

I had to finish the job with phillips head screws.

This could be a real pain if the heads strip out so quickly and you can neither drive them in with a new head or back them out.
Even with a damaged phillips you can almost always get the chewed up screw out.

I* am NEW to square drive and would like to know if I did something wrong or is this common?*
I have an entire Kithcen and bath to do and I would like to order in bulk.....one type or the other.

Suggestions?


Makita Screw gun
Low speed ( No. 1 ) On the Speed setting 
No. 8-10 on the setting on the drive setting ( twist)


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## NivekD (Mar 3, 2012)

I've used both, I make sure my screw holes are correctly piloted and use a screwdriver, never a screw gun. No problems so far.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Drill a pilot hole. Keep more pressure into the screw. Use screw lube. I've never stripped a square drive screw in 9 years of using them.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm wondering if it could be because you are using a screw gun rather than a battery drill or impact driver. With a screw gun, the shroud hits the material and limits the reach of the drive bit. With Phillips heads, the reduced grip in the slots allows the bit to cam right out. I'm not sure that would work as well with square/Robertson drives. Could your drive tip have been slightly rounded from previous screws?

I use a lot of square drive trim head screws driven with a battery drill. I usually pre drill even when using the self drilling type screws. It's just a precaution on my part, not only to make driving easier and accurate but to prevent splitting. I've never had a gauled head or rounded drive bit even in cases when I might not pre drill. Of course, a battery drill is a lot slower driving than a corded screw gun. Did you try a screw extractor on the bad heads? Seems like the hole would be perfect for an extractor to get a bite. 

The #6 black trim heads I use are Grip Tite, standard Home Depot stuff. #8 & #9 are usually GRK with Torx drives. Square drive regular screws aren't readily available without a special order but I hear they are common in Canada. I also use a screw lube most of the time, it's just a semi hard wax, paraffin cakes also work. I've certainly had issues driving screws so pre drilling and lube are standard procedures for me with every screw.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

Never had that problem with square drive screws, I prefer them to phillips.


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## Itchytoe (Dec 17, 2011)

I've never had a problem with square drives. I've actually had better luck with square than with phillips. As long as the bit fits into the screw head well, you should be fine. If you use a bit that's too small, you'll strip them easily. You can get a phillips that isn't the right size to work sometimes, but not square.


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## joesbucketorust (Dec 13, 2011)

+1 to the squares. They are a Canadian invention aren't they? I've used them before and found they are next to impossible to strip if you're using the right size square driver bit - but the difference in bit sizes is super small - 1/32 or so IIRC. Are you sure you're using the bit called for on the package?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*square is best*

However you may have got some Chinese screws from HD which are softer than they should be. As stated above the square driver must be a wedge fit into the head of the screw. It will stay on when the fit is correct. Often the magnetic bit comes out after being driven it's such a good fit. Phillips is dead long live the Squares! :yes: bill

BYW I still use Phillips cause I have a bunch. I use them for drywall and other non-essential projects.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

were you using a sleeve to hold the screw in place as you screwed it in ?
im talking about the sleeve on a makita adaptor for interchanging heads.
ive never stripped a square drive yet but i have had the situation of them stopping about 1/4 inch from bottoming due to the sleeve


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

All the above. I use bees wax most times. I have a cake of it I slide the threads across before screwing them in. I almost always pre- drill with something. 

I like those torx heads too. Build fixtures with them.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> However you may have got some Chinese screws from HD which are softer than they should be. As stated above the square driver must be a wedge fit into the head of the screw. It will stay on when the fit is correct. Often the magnetic bit comes out after being driven it's such a good fit. Phillips is dead long live the Squares! :yes: bill
> 
> BYW I still use Phillips cause I have a bunch. I use them for drywall and other non-essential projects.


I agree with this. There was something wrong. With a good square bit that is the correct fit for a good steel screw this should never happen, pilot hole or not.

George


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## Duncancruiser (Dec 6, 2011)

I only use Robertson screws. They never strip if you have the correct bit.


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

Being a Canadian, I have been exposed to square, or "robertson head" screws all my life. They are a Canadian invention and I have to say that I have absolutely no time for American slot or phillips head screws. If you are rounding your bit and/or your screws, you are either,
a)using the wrong size bit
b)using cheap bits that are not properly sized
c)using cheap screws that are not properly sized
d)not applying enough pressure when driving the screw
e)using too much torque on your drill, causing the bit to slip.

Although there is no foolproof fastener that will never strip out, I will take a robertson screw over those "other" screws any day of the week.


No offense meant to my American friends. :thumbsup:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

To the OP

You really have a lot of options when it comes to using screws and it's not as easy as drive and go. There really is a lot of skill required in some applications. Like lots of things there is a certain touch required. 

Having said that. I have mucked up a few screw heads in my wood working adventures and try to use them only when necessary. I never take them for granted.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Kenbo said:


> Being a Canadian, I have been exposed to square, or "robertson head" screws all my life. They are a Canadian invention and I have to say that I have absolutely no time for American slot or phillips head screws. If you are rounding your bit and/or your screws, you are either,
> a)using the wrong size bit
> b)using cheap bits that are not properly sized
> c)using cheap screws that are not properly sized
> ...


Kenbo

American made requires a Phillips to open the box only to find slotted screws on the inside. I just hate that.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## ArmedFerret (Aug 24, 2011)

If I'm driving screws with a power tool, I'm using an impact driver (not an impact wrench like for lug nuts, but a scaled-down version for screws). Have yet to strip anything, although I only get quality (non big box store) Robertson drive.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ArmedFerret said:


> If I'm driving screws with a power tool, I'm using an impact driver (not an impact wrench like for lug nuts, but a scaled-down version for screws). Have yet to strip anything, although I only get quality (non big box store) Robertson drive.


Oh come on. How long have you had an impact driver? They haven't been around that long.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Al B Thayer said:


> Oh come on. How long have you had an impact driver? They haven't been around that long.


Not sure what you mean by that. Impact drivers have been around plenty long enough to drive millions and millions of screws.



Al B Thayer said:


> American made requires a Phillips to open the box only to find slotted screws on the inside. I just hate that.


I hear that. It drives me crazy when I'm doing electrical work and I have to keep switching screw drivers.:furious:


Anyway, I love square bits. Good job, Canada!!! I've never stripped one, and I've stripped PLENTY of phillips. I buy my square bits from McFeely's, and I've never had a problem. Check them out.

--Matt


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

The screws were Grip Rite ( made in Taiwan)
The driver bit was inside the box.

The Makita is an 18 V Lithium screw gun

I was using a Bosch bit holder.

I did NOT drill a pilot hole.

NOTE* the bit was rounded off after the 12th screw




What is the *BEST* driver bits.
what are the *BEST *square drive screws in No.6 through No.8 for 1/2" through 1-1/2" thick lumber ( pine ONLY).
*WHERE CAN i FIND THESE TOP END DRIVER BITS AND SCREWS???*




Thank you all for the input.

IN my net busness I pay top dollar and a lot of freight charges to have netting, rope, twine, shackles, thimbles, fids, swivels...etc....shipped in from solid manufacturers. I am well aware of cheap, imitation looking products that fail miserably! THE ONLY WAY WE HAVE MANAGED TO STAY IN COMPETITION WITH THE "BIG BOYS" IS THROUGH SOLID QUALITY AND DESIGN........ and that can not be achieved using cheap @$$ product. I am guessing your businesses are the same. 

* Any help in finding the right stuff is greatly appreciated.*


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

bob sacamano said:


> were you using a sleeve to hold the screw in place as you screwed it in ?
> im talking about the sleeve on a makita adaptor for interchanging heads.
> ive never stripped a square drive yet but i have had the situation of them stopping about 1/4 inch from bottoming due to the sleeve


Nope! These screws all stopped when they hit that 15 year old hard @$$ old framing inside the wall. The Phillips just melted right into the wood.

I have stripped hundreds of the Phillips and really want this square screw thing to work out. I have 4 months to get this kitchen and bath done and i can only work on week ends so I need to get in gear. I am NOT a carpenter but have good mensuration skills and a willingness to learn from more knowledgable folks like your self.
Thank you for the reply....


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Like the man said, it's hard to go wrong with McFeely's. I have never bought square head screws or drivers from the big box stores, I buy 'Em from McFeely's and drive them with a DeWalt 18v impact driver and I have never had a problem. BUT, you have to be sure that you have the right bit for the screw.
Please add my name to the roster of Phillips head screw haters.


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

I am happy to see this post as I recently had my first experience with square drives an it did not go well. I was helping a friend put a swing/play set back together after being delivered from a neighbor (its about 7 year old rotted out pressure treated wood). In the process of using some of these stainless square heads with a low end battery drill I managed to strip several screws and a bit. Then the battery died and tried using a corded impact driver, and promptly sheared off the screw below the level of the wood despite efforts to go as slow as I could. Anyway, I'm strangely relieved to read that it must have been "user error".


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Are those SS? 

I only use Torx heads. I try and only use GRK screws. I do use a lot of stainless steel T10 screws for my hidden deck fasteners, I still don't like SS.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

netman said:


> The screws were Grip Rite ( made in Taiwan)
> The driver bit was inside the box.
> 
> The Makita is an 18 V Lithium screw gun
> ...


As best as I can see in the picture the square tip looks to be rounded over. The end of the square tip should be square. Grip Rite screws are a good brand and there should be no difference in the operation between the square head screws and the philips. I think your problem is the tip.


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> As best as I can see in the picture the square tip looks to be _*rounded over*_. The end of the square tip should be square. Grip Rite screws are a good brand and there should be no difference in the operation between the square head screws and the philips. I think your problem is the tip.


*That's the problem. The tip was SQUARE until the last 4 screws and then it stripped like this.... the tip just melted in the screw head .....useless.*


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

......I keep hearing about correct driver bit with screw head.

*Could someone explain What are the correct Drivers I should be buying ( if from McNeeley's) and which screws will they fitt properly?*

Thank you all again.


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

Yes, the tip started off square and the stripped itseld into this round bit at about the 12the screw or so.

What brand name would be the absolute best?


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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

it's McFeely's
http://www.mcfeelys.com/
They've got lots of stuff. You can order driver bits to go along with whatever size screws you want.

Bit Tip Dimensions
screw size -- driver bit size
#4 -- #0
#5,6,7 -- #1
#8,9,10 -- #2
#12,14 -- #3
5/16 and up -- #4

Honestly though, it sounds like your bit was junk. Before you spend too much more money pick up a dewalt bit at Lowes or HD. It only costs a few bucks. 
--Matt


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## Duncancruiser (Dec 6, 2011)

If the screw is a #10 head. You need a #10 bit #8 screw you need a #8 bit and so on. If you use a # 8 bit with a #10 screw it will round the bit and strip the screw. If you are using a drill make sure to lightly squeeze the trigger. Do not use the drill at full speed. That will wreck the screw and bit everytime. I've learned the hard way.


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

_If the screw is a #10 head. You need a #10 bit #8 screw you need a #8 bit and so on. If you use a # 8 bit with a #10 screw it will round the bit and strip the screw._



_Bit Tip Dimensions
screw size -- driver bit size
#4 -- #0
#5,6,7 -- #1
#8,9,10 -- #2
#12,14 -- #3
5/16 and up -- #4

*Sorry Guys, but I am confused anout the bit size and screw size fitting. Here are the last two replies and you all lost me...... can you clear it up , please?*_


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## autre (Jul 12, 2011)

From:"History of the Robertson Screwdriver" http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/robertson-screwdriver-history

[["...Currently, there are five different Robertson screwdrivers available, with suitable screw size indicated by the color. Orange drivers (#00) are appropriate for use with screw types 1 and 2. The recess size range (the size of the corresponding square imprint on the screw) is from 1.77-1.80 mm. Yellow drivers (#0) work with screw types 3 and 4 and feature a recess size range of 2.29 to 2.31 mm. Green drivers (#1) operate with screw types 5, 6, and 7, with a recess size range of 2.82 to 2.86 mm. Red drivers (I assume #2)* function with screw types 8, 9, and 10 and have a recess size range of 3.34 to 3.38 mm. Black drivers (I assume #3)* work with the largest screws, types 12 and higher, and have a recess range of 4.81 to 4.85 mm."]]

I, personally would ignore the color codes and just use the # types and match to screw size. 
*edits.

Places like McFeelys' online should have a short information section on the very questions you are having. 

And for what it's worth, I predrill EVERYTHING unless the application calls for "do not pre drill". 

Hope this helps.


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## ArmedFerret (Aug 24, 2011)

Al B Thayer said:


> Oh come on. How long have you had an impact driver? They haven't been around that long.


2 years or so. About 17 months longer than I've owned a table saw. Some of us are slightly newer than you, so maybe you could try not to condescend to us quite so much from here on out, hmm?

Thanks.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

netman said:


> *That's the problem. The tip was SQUARE until the last 4 screws and then it stripped like this.... the tip just melted in the screw head .....useless.*


It's been a number of years since I've had a Grip Rite freebie tip so perhaps they are no good anymore. I don't pay any attention to the brand of tips I use. Most of the time I buy tips at my local lumber company and they just has them in bins at the checkout and I buy a half dozen at a time. I lose more than I wear out. Guessing from other things they sell I believe they are cheap Vermont American Tips. Anyway you need to put a firm amount of pressure on the tip when you drive a screw just like with the philips. When one of the tips starts to wear out you should just pitch it before it starts eating the heads of the screws.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I like square drive screws but they definitely require the correct size screw driver or they round out quick. I've never rounded out or broke a Kreg screw, but the knock off replacements break easily. I have had nothing but good luck with SPAX brand screws which use a Pozi-drive bit they package with them. Unless the screw is specifically threaded for not needing a pilot hole, it will sure work better with a pilot hole as mentioned. Cheap screws or drivers really do frusterate though.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/tech

At this link under the screw information guide you'll find very good information on fasteners and their different types and apps.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I use square drive mostly for trim screws. I use phillips for most everything else. I use the short (1") driver tips, and a short magnetic holder. The longer the screw is set out from the source of torque, the more it takes. IOW, if you have a long drive bit, and magnetic holder, the drill will have to apply more power to drive the screw. It's incrementally small, but still more.

I use a VSR cordless drill to drive screws. They produce more controllable torque at slow speeds than an electric drill. Most holes are piloted and countersunk where applicable. Hardwoods are always piloted, as well as holes that are close to edges.

When driving screws I don't just spin them in. I use the slow setting. When the screw is close to seating, I bump the trigger to tighten. That prevents excessive heat, over spinning, and snapping off heads.








 







.


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

All good advice.

It seems that McFeely's is a good place for me to just pick up the phone and call and ask for screw types and bits.

Thank you all for the advice and comments. 

Merci Beaucoup


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## chrisgerman1983 (Jan 17, 2009)

Robertson bits :thumbsup: I remember as a kid the first time I encountered a Philips and a slot... it boggled my mind that anyone would use such a silly screw type :laughing:


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## chrisgerman1983 (Jan 17, 2009)

These are the drivers that I use. A two piece with a hardened tip is much better then a one piece steel bit!


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

As is often the case in these forums, posters leave out details and important information and sometimes those details come out later in responses. The important part left out in your question is that you are attaching to old framing, you aren't predrilling and you aren't using lube.

Old framing can be very hard and it's common to hit knots. There is a bit of finesse to predrilling. You need to use the proper size pilot bit, drill deep enough and make sure the majority of the debris is cleaned out of the pilot hole. It's not an operation where you just drill a hole and drive the screw. Without a proper pilot hole, especially in old framing, your incidence of failed screwed drives will be high. Using a screw lube is an added precaution and the combination of pilot hole and lube will greatly reduce problems regardless of the type of screw or drive.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

haugerm said:


> I buy my square bits from McFeely's, and I've never had a problem. Check them out.
> 
> --Matt


This is who you are looking for: http://www.mcfeelys.com/

Edit: Sorry, already covered. Posted before seeing the second page.


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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

_[QUOTE The important part left out in your question is that you are attaching to old framing, you aren't predrilling and you aren't using lube._

Absoluetly correct!

I noticed that these 2x4 and 2x6's are hard as rock to even nail into. The frame work on some of this house is actually 35 years old, Mississippi Lob Lolly or Long leaf Pine if I remember correctly.


What type bit would you recommend for this type pre-drilling?
Should I also get a counter sink tool?
 

Thank you all again.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

netman said:


> _[QUOTE The important part left out in your question is that you are attaching to old framing, you aren't predrilling and you aren't using lube._
> 
> Absoluetly correct!
> 
> ...


I use a combination pilot/countersinker like this. The drill bit length is adjustable for depth. The countersink cutter is replaceable. It's also available in just a shaft drive instead of hex drive. I would use a phillips drive bit, as most of the screws you'll be using will be phillips. As for bit size most will be #2 phillips, or #3 phillips...and the brand is relatively unimportant. With a good fitting bit to screw head, IMO, a phillips offers good contact if driven straight. Square drive has the propensity to jump out under torque load more so than phillips.









 







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## netman (Mar 17, 2012)

You are saying that the Phillips is better than the square head for old wood such as this?

Will that counter sink work on both new and old wood?


Thank you.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

netman said:


> You are saying that the Phillips is better than the square head for old wood such as this?


That's what I use.



netman said:


> Will that counter sink work on both new and old wood?
> Thank you.


It works fine for me.










 







.


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## MTL (Jan 21, 2012)

Learn something new everyday. I never knew that squares were called robertsons or that they came from Canada. My only experience with them is kreg products. I like em. I like torx a little better. Phillips come in third and i cant for the life of me figure out why flat heads are still being manufactured...

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


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## Itchytoe (Dec 17, 2011)

MTL said:


> Learn something new everyday. I never knew that squares were called robertsons or that they came from Canada. My only experience with them is kreg products. I like em. I like torx a little better. Phillips come in third and i cant for the life of me figure out why flat heads are still being manufactured...
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk


My grandpa likes flat heads. He says they are harder to strip because they require less pressure to keep the bit grabbing the screw. I think he may be old and senile.


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## Carvel Loafer (Dec 31, 2011)

Ah, the age old discussion, Phillips vs Robertson. :smile: Really, each has there ideal application. Phillips heads are best for things like drywall screws when you use a screw gun with a depth gauge. The tapered effect of the Phillips helps the tip to slide out when the depth gauge makes contact. You couldn't do that with a Robertson tip as well.

Roberston screws are excellent for a solid non slip grip, if they are true "Roberston" or at least built to similar specifications. The cheap stuff pumped out from China is poor steel, poor quality control on the sizing of the socket, and the driver tips are just as poor, both in Phillips and Robertson.

Another unique feature to look for on the true Robertson screws is the slight chamfer at the top of the socket. This helps a little bit for alignment as the tip goes into the socket but it also aids to keep the driver tip in place because it creates a slight flex without compromising fit on the tip.

For my vintage trailer hobby I need Phillips heads to be more original, Robertson heads just don't look right. I have to wait for my next trip south to stock up because Phillips heads are not readily available here except for drywall screws.

Check out the Robertson website.

http://www.robertsonscrew.com/index.html


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ArmedFerret said:


> 2 years or so. About 17 months longer than I've owned a table saw. Some of us are slightly newer than you, so maybe you could try not to condescend to us quite so much from here on out, hmm?
> 
> Thanks.


Impact drivers may have been around for a few years but only up until a couple of years ago have they been sold in all the box stores as the gota have it tool of the month. I don't drive screws in a way that requires an impact driver.

Condescend me? Wood snob guilty. But I don't mean it in a bad way.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

MTL said:


> Phillips come in third and i cant for the life of me figure out why flat heads are still being manufactured...
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Woodworking Talk



Flat heads fit countersunk holes...that's why. Here is a chart that might help:








.
Here are some head styles:
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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I don't do anything fancy when predrilling nor do I look for anything out of the ordinary for screws. I use whatever brand the full service lumber yards I use carry but I'm not opposed to buying at Home Depot, either. I'd hate to pay shipping on 100s of pounds. With trim heads, I pick a standard twist bit that matches the shank of the screw less the threads. Usually I drill a little shorter than the screw, about where the tip starts to taper. It all depends on the material. 

For countersunk heads, I use a combination that has a tapered bit and countersink in one. I have several brands but I like the Insty bit combos. At times, I may use just the tapered bit on trim heads. You have to back out frequently with a tapered bit to clear the debris or you may break off the bit, you may have to clear the bit flutes, too. Watch out, those bits can get real hot. I like the hex shank bits and the quick change chucks. You pull out on the quick chuck and the bit releases, the drive bit clicks right in, can be done one handed, unlike some others that release in the opposite direction. There are less expensive imports but they seem to break off easily and most don't have the hex shaft. 

I've been using the lube wax from Rockler, it only takes a tiny bit, you don't want to fill the threads. Beeswax and paraffin can melt with the heat and leave a spot on the work. A bar of soap may cause degradation of the screw. 

http://insty-bit.com/taper_drill_with_countersink.html


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## chrisgerman1983 (Jan 17, 2009)

Carvel Loafer said:


> Ah, the age old discussion, Phillips vs Robertson. :smile: Really, each has there ideal application. Phillips heads are best for things like drywall screws when you use a screw gun with a depth gauge. *The tapered effect of the Phillips helps the tip to slide out when the depth gauge makes contact. You couldn't do that with a Robertson tip as well.*


Good point! I was trying to think of a scenario where Philips would be better.... for some reason i never thought of this


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

You gota use flat heads on switch plates. So you can turn them straight up and down. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Al B Thayer said:


> You gota use flat heads on switch plates. So you can turn them straight up and down.
> 
> Al


Flat head, and slotted.









 







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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Sorry for the confusion, netman. I'm actually a little confused too. The table I gave you with screw and bit sizes was copied straight out of the McFeely's catalog. I generally use #8 screws and they require a #2 square bit. When I look at bits in the hardware store they're always #1, #2, or #3. I've never heard of another system, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Maybe Duncancruiser can chime back in and clarify.
--Matt


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Hammer1 said:



> I've been using the lube wax from Rockler, it only takes a tiny bit, you don't want to fill the threads. Beeswax and paraffin can melt with the heat and leave a spot on the work. A bar of soap may cause degradation of the screw.


45 years ago an old time high school shop teacher I knew used to rub wood screws thru his hair to lub them before driving them. I laughed at him; but found that it does work.


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## Bob Willing (Jul 4, 2008)

Wrangler said:


> 45 years ago an old time high school shop teacher I knew used to rub wood screws thru his hair to lub them before driving them. I laughed at him; but found that it does work.


 

Beryl cream a little dab will do yha!


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## Duncancruiser (Dec 6, 2011)

My apologies. I started speaking before thinking when I gave my 2 cents before. I went to home depot to buy new screws. They were #8 1-1/4" Robertson and they need a #2 bit. Again. My apologies.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Never thought much about screws. My Dad used to drill a pilot hole, plus a larger drill for the shank and then countersink. For last few years I have been using 'TurboGold' screws from Screwfix UK and they hardly ever need a pilot hole except in very hard wood. 

After 30 years of buying small packs of 10-12 screws from hardware stores, I treated myself to a range of sizes in boxes of 200. Ideally, I like 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5mm in lengths from 12mm to 70mm. Such a pleasure to have exactly the right sgrew for the job. All are Pozidrive heads and I also have a range in stainless for outdoors.
I use a B&D Li screwdriver which will also take a small chuck and ideal for drilling small jobs. Recently used to fix roller blinds to UPC frames and a hanger bar to back of the shower room door. 
johnep


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

Bob Willing said:


> Beryl cream a little dab will do yha!


---

I know I am from Down Under and I appreciate what your message is. But should Beryl cream read "" Bryl Cream "

It is that long since I used it, you do need hair.

Pete


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

For those that are hair challenged, the side of your nose is another good place for a little "oil". I don't find either adequate for driving screws but it's what I use on my burnisher.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Hammer1 said:


> For those that are hair challenged, the side of your nose is another good place for a little "oil". I don't find either adequate for driving screws but it's what I use on my burnisher.


What the deuce! You use oil on your burnisher? I never thought of that. Do you get better results?

I have a square cake of bees wax I use on screws. I've had it since the 70s and it looks like it will out last me. I have thrown it in the corner of my tool tray on my bench it's entire life. Very handy.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## mrbutton (Dec 6, 2011)

Used to work in a furniture factory. We used square drive all the time. If the bit fits the screw, you're more likely to snap the bit then strip the screw or driver.


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

Years ago I was strong enough to keep from camming out philips drive screws. Seldom had trouble...still using same drivers. As I age, I am not strong enough to keep the driver tight in odd positions so I find myself using square drives more often. I like them.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Cheap screws. 
Cheap bit.
No pilot hole.

All adds up to bad kharma.

Quality Robertson head screws used with a quality bit, and going into a predrilled pilot hole should work almost flawlessly. I also prefer Robertson head screws to Phillips head screws, but I have also tried to work with cheap screws and a cheap bit, and it is a PITA.

Gerry


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

After getting a cordless impact driver, I will never try to drive screws with a drill.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I re-did my deck last summer, using Robertson drive screws. I didn't strip any, although a couple of the screws hit knots and broke off (yeah... it sucked). However, my father managed to round both the bit and the slot in the screw on two of them: for the second, I was watching to see what he did. It turns out he was getting the screw started, and as it drove in he was letting the driver tip sideways. Since the screw couldn't lean with the driver, the corners of the bit weren't making solid contact with the slot in the screw. It was a brand new bit when he started using it, and it was unusable after the fifth or sixth screw. He'd never used an impact driver or a Robertson screw before, and he probably never would have again if I hadn't been able to point out his mistake.

So if you keep stripping the screws and bits, make sure you're keeping things lined up correctly...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I've posted this before...

*See Warning***

A tool used correctly is much more efficient, and produces good results. If one wants to totally demolish a phillips head when driving a screw, there are a few tips I can give. First use the fastest speed your tool has. Second, manage to be off the line of the screw, that is maintain a slight angle to the screw. Third, try to have minimal pressure on the screw bit into the screw head. Fourth, after the screw has seated, leave the bit spinning in the head.

Other tips for disaster: Don't bother to take the time to predrill any holes. Having the screw split the wood is only a minor setback. Having the screw skip off the starting point will allow your bit to nicely plow into the wood and leave a distinct pattern of the bit. Better than that, you could be lucky enough to have the bit skip off the screw and plunge directly into a portion of your hand causing you to bleed all over the work.

Another tip of the day for those who like metal objects falling on their face, is not to predrill for holes above your head. Try to keep the screw on the cool magnetic bit/holder for overhead work, and manage to do it directly above your face. Try to hold several screws in the freehand while doing this so they can also fall into your face.

For the muscle bound grip of steel craftsmen out there, holding heavy parts or ill fitted parts with one hand and driving screws with the other is a real time saver and proves clamps aren't really necessary.

It's not necessary to take the time to figure out what length screw should be used. Make sure it's a little long so it will poke through the other side giving maximum grip. There's holes to fill anyway.

Make sure short screws keeps spinning when fully seated. This assures that they won't go any deeper. Countersinking may be a useless step. Having protruding screw heads are so much easier to find.

For maximum bodily injury, work so that the screw/driver is pointing at your face or body.

***Warning:* These are tips from a been there done that guy that should *NOT* be followed, or tried. 











 







.


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## Midlandbob (Sep 5, 2011)

The Robertson's "square" screws generally drive much more easily.
There are four main sizes coded yellow, green, red and black. The Kreg screws are the red size the most standard size: these screws have a built in "drill".

The proper bits have a slight taper and drive well with the correct pressure. Cheap bits get stuck in the screw and can ruin screws. 
Just like Philips, using too small a bit will strip screws. Cheap drivers are made of softer steel and can ruin the bit and or the screw.
Pilot holes are required for all screws if they are going into something hard and or are long. In really tough wood , a bit of wax on any screw helps.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Some of the posters should beware. Sometimes the wood will split after the screw has been successfully seated. Maybe days later. Maybe weeks. Counter bore, pre drill IS needed no mater how successful your driving tool and head are.

My 2 cents.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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