# making your own knives ??



## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

as my "spare time" keeps getting extended, I will be undertaking my next 
project of making some carving knives. (then I will learn how to carve).
I see on 99% of the YT videos, they are all about just "making" the knives
out of a saw blade with no heat treatment or tempering. there are no
followup videos of how well they hold up under different carving projects.
what do _YOU_ do, if anything, to the blades before putting them in handles ??
























*I made this one last week - no heat treatment - just fabricated cold steel.*

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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That is a good looking knife. I have used several different things to make carving knives but mostly I have used an industrial hacksaw blade. The toothed edge is high carbon steel tempered to where it is almost too brittle for a small knife blade. I have snapped a blade already because it was too brittle. It will really hold an edge for a good while but just have to be careful not to pry even a little with it.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

*You have summoned me*

Strictly speaking, when youre making a knife from something prehardened like a sawzall blade as long as youre careful about heat when youre grinding out the blade, you dont have to do anything regarding heat treating. The steel is still as hard as it was in the saw blade form, which is hard enough to hold an edge. Technically. Far as im concerned though, reciprocating saw blades make for crappy knives for a couple reasons.

First off, most reciprocating saw blades arent just one kind of metal, theyre 2: the spine is made of something soft and springy, the teeth are made of somethimg much harder. Reason for this is if you made the entire blade out of the hard stuff it would break instead of flexing, which would reduce its lifespan, and if you made it out of the springy stuff the teeth wouldnt hold a good edge. When you grind a knife shape, youre usually left with just the springy stuff, which makes for a crappy edge. Now, you can still find blades that are monosteel, the same stuff throughout, but even then the steel is usually tempered to favor flexibility over hardness, to let the blades bend instead of breaking. A little bit of flex is good, too much flex makes for a crappy edge. Doesnt matter in a saw blade, matters a lot in a knife.

When it comes to heat treating a saw blade, to try to get the properties you want out of the steel, youre left with another problem; you dont know what kinda steel youre dealing with. Different steels need to be heat treated differently, and if you dont know what you have youre flying blind. You could be dealing with L6 steel, which you can just heat to cherry red, hold for a few minutes and quench in oil, but if thats actually D3 steel then quenching it will cause it to crack. Getting the best results from heat treatment requires knowing what youre dealing with, flying blind can get you something workable, but its a lot of extra work for a very unknown benefit. 

Bottom line, if youre going to make a carving knife from a reciprocating saw blade or similar, theres no real need to try to heat treat it. The steel is already hard-ish and will make a decent knife. If you want to go through the trouble of heat treatment to make a great knife, it makes more sense to start with a known steel. Its surprisingly inexpensive in small amounts too, a piece big enough to make a carving knife from is only about $7 at a place like McMaster:
https://www.mcmaster.com/o1 tool steel/oversized-multipurpose-oil-hardening-o1-tool-steel-bars/

Grind your knife form, heat it up until it no longer sticks to a magnet, quench it in canola oil, toss it in the kitchen oven at 450f, polish, sharpen. Pretty easy to do honestly


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## johnedp34 (Jun 30, 2016)

Very interesting topic. I was told that old car leaf springs made good knives.
Iron and steel make a fascinating subject to explore. I recently found that Swedish "iron" used in the old days as it contained a natural correct % of carbon. Swedish steel swords were highly praised.
johnep


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

thanks Jim !

Epic - I made some carving gouges back in the '80s out of material
I got from McMaster Carr. I still have a lot of it left but I have no clue
as to what type it is. After heat treating, I put them in the oven on the
"clean" cycle and they reached the nice straw color. but, 3 of them 
snapped at the tang. so that was a learning cycle there.

as for palm sized chip style (whittlin) knives, all the blades are less than 2" 
and I used the tooth side for the cutting edge, being careful not to overheat 
during the sharpening process. I just didn't understand all the videos of
why they didn't heat treat the blades before putting in the handle.
I think I got it now - thanks !
(I love my new[to me] 14" Delta band saw. I've slowed it down enough to
accept a 1/2" metal cutting blade and it is awesome. I cut up a circular
saw blade awhile back with little effort. so I know I can cut all the recip
blades to shape very quickly without using the angle grinder.

Johnep - yes, the car springs made prior to WWII is the best tool steel.
but - unless you have a full on forge and 500 pound anvil and three
monkeys to swing the hammers, it is a grueling task.

I bought a WEN oscillating spindle sander just to shape the handles with.
it will be here Sunday. I like making things like this and will probably
give most of them away.
my geographical area is still growing for the Covid issues and I am taking
extra steps to stay out of public places. so in-home hobbies are at the forefront.
what's next ? I have plenty of mallets, LOL.

stay safe everyone !!

John

*Edit:*
here are the sheets of tool steel I bought back in the early '80s.
I will probably never use it all in my life time - especially the thick stuff.
(I guess I should at least clean them up and spray with some clear finish
in case a future generation wants to make something out of it).

















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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Spark test for steels .....*



John Smith_inFL said:


> thanks Jim !
> 
> Epic -* I made some carving gouges back in the '80s out of material I got from McMaster Carr. I still have a lot of it left but I have no clue as to what type it is.* After heat treating, I put them in the oven on the "clean" cycle and they reached the nice straw color. but, 3 of them snapped at the tang. so that was a learning cycle there.
> .
> ...



As far as knowing which material you have there is a spark test for determining how much carbon content is within the steel. It probably won't differentiate within the better knife making and hardenable steels:






This one will give you a better feel for the type of steel:






John, you said you "slowed yours down enough". What did you do specifically? A jackshaft, a gear reduction unit?



Slowing down a standard wood cutting bandsaw enough to permit metal cutting, that would require going from 3,000 FPM down to 300 FPM or even less, about a 10 to 1 reduction:

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodworking-tips-1205may/askthestaff.html

For cutting steel:

https://www.sawblade.com/band-saw-blade-speed-and-feed-chart.cfm



I love all my bandsaws from the 18" MinMax woodcutting resaw to the 10" Craftsman hobbiest I got when my son was 10 years old. Then there are two metal cutting bandsaws, a 10" capacity vertical Roll In with a 4 step pulley reduction as well as a gear reduction and a very old Craftsman horiztonal type with a pulley and bevel gear reduction system. Drill press and lathe operations use the same cutting rates as bandsaws. Roughly 1,000 to 3,000 CFM in wood depending on the bits and type of wood or down to 300 CFM in steel depending on the type also:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/586593920186165656/


I have learned a lot by doing things wrong and wondering why my bits heated up and dulled especially in stainless steel which is not only hard, but tough. Aluminum is kinda in between since you can use a woodcutting blade in your bandsaw at pretty much "normal" speed without any damage to the blade. 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/586593920186165656/




:vs_cool:


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

John Smith, I made a Small hand plane using a Bi-Metal Sawzall blade, and it is a favorite. It holds an edge as well as any hand plane. It is a one of a kind and has a 1/2" cutting edge. I originally made it to smooth the bottom of dado's (those ridges). I found that it works extremely well for detail type chamfering and rounding and get can get into many tight inside corners. My original thought was to heat treat the steel but found I didn't have to. I ground the teeth off being careful not to heat the steel then shaped the blade with a single cut file using the draw file method to get the width. I used calipers to get it precise. The edge was done using a honing guide (as I would a chisel or a plane iron). I left the shape of the Sawzall blade to show what it was made from. I have made about 15 different hand planes and many scrapers and usually use O-1 steel (Starrett), going through all the steps to shape, heat treat and anneal by using a Bernzomatic torch.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

What impresses me about Gary's plane is that he left the top, so we can all see where he sourced the blade. Very cool!


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

John- Blades snapping at the tang is actually a pretty common problem, and it isnt always the fault of the heat treatment process. Tangs are an area where all the stresses seen by a blade tend to concentrate, youve got all the force that the blade portion sees being funneled through an area that sees a pretty dramatic reduction in size. If you have something like a sharp corner at the junction of blade and tang, you create a stress riser and nearly guarantee that the blade will snap there if it sees too much force. Proper geometry for the area is a lot more important than it seems at first glance.

Glad i could help clarify the need for heat treatment. Like i said, you can make a decent enough edge out of a sawzall blade without heat treating it, probably make for a better knife than a commercially available one to be honest. Just dont expect it to outpreform something made with a known steel thats been heat treated properly


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Reusing sawzall blades ...*

I was informed of the Milwaukee "The Torch" as the best sawzall blades for metal cutting, and sure enough they are! 

https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Torch-Sawzall-Blade-48-00-5782/dp/B000F713BS


I don't know about the rest of the blade body, but the teeth will cut faster and better than any other blades I've used. If you want to try some I'll figure out how to send you a few.... let me know via PM.
:smile2:


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

*Band Saw Speed Reduction (FPS)*



woodnthings said:


> John, you said you "slowed yours down enough". What did you do specifically?
> A jackshaft, a gear reduction unit?
> Slowing down a standard wood cutting bandsaw enough to permit metal cutting,
> that would require going from 3,000 FPM down to 300 FPM or even less, about a
> ...


I bought 4 inexpensive pulleys off of E-Bay and I had some on hand already.
then made about 3 or 4 trips to my local NAPA for V-Belts until I found the 
right combination. (I returned the unused pulleys and belts to the seller).
fortunately, the person that I bought the saw from had already used it for cutting
metal in his automotive shop - but used really small pulleys, (IMO). too high FPM.
he fabricated a really nice motor-mount slide that is Jam Up and Jelly Tight !!!
so, with all my stars lined up just right I ended up with a 14" pulley on the saw shaft
and a 2" pulley on the motor and a 57" V-Belt. (of course belt length will be different
with each saw. I don't think many people have the adjustable mount like I have).
[I should take some photos of that too, it is really simple to make with minimum tools].
I looked at the speed reduction formula on the net and I think it was in the 
3-400ish FPM realm. 
(I could probably still go to a 15-16" pulley, but it is fine for me at the moment).
at the time, I was cutting up aluminum scrap to melt in a forge and wasn't
cutting steel, like I am doing now for my "new project" of making some knives.
*CAUTION: IF YOU INSTALL THIS SETUP, EXTREME CAUTION SHOULD BE
EXERCISED TO ENSURE PETS AND INQUIRING KIDS FINGERS CAN NOT GET
INSIDE THE MOVING PARTS !!! This design is NOT OSHA approved !*









here is a leather maker's "Head Knife" that I made a couple of weeks ago.
no need to describe the process - it is self explanatory.

























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## homestd (Aug 24, 2018)

That saw is a really good option in any shop. It seems like I always have to fabricate something. BTW what blade are you using?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A jack shaft would give you more speeds ....*

By putting a second shaft between your motor pulley and machine pulley you can reduce the speed even further. I did that years ago on a Crappy Craftsman 12" saw, which was never meant to cut steel and did only a fair job on wood. I sold it eventually and upgraded considerably. Not knocking your workout at all, just throwing a suggestion in if you want a greater reduction ratio. If I recall 100 FPM is the best speed for some steels ...... ?
:vs_cool:


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

Home - I _"had"_ a Lenox DIEMASTER 2 Bi-Metal 16-TPI blade on it.
yesterday, I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing and
I cut a piece of 3/16"" mild steel plate and forgot to
change out the pulley from a 6" to the 14" and ruined the teeth
on the blade. aaarrrggghhhhhhh pretty frustrating.
today, I ordered two 3/8" and one 1/2" 18TPI blades. and will
pay more attention to the speed configuration in the future.
with the 14" pulley and the slow speed, the 16TPI blade had no
trouble cutting the table saw blade to make the leather cutting knife.
I will be constructing a guard soon for the pulley and belt before I 
get caught up in it myself. (that is Job #2 on the list).

John

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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

*update:* this is what I started with. I bought the WEN Spindle Sander just
for this project and it works great. all the blades were heat treated and quenched
in Canola Oil before putting it in the handle. 
I have to put the final sharpening off until I can get to Walmart for a box of bandaids.
handles are of assorted woods of unknown heritage and have 4 coats of Danish Oil.

























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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

John, those look like very nice carving knives.

Thank you John, et al, for this very cool thread. I've thought about making some tool blades, and this thread answers a few of my questions, specifically about steel blank sourcing and identifying types.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Man, those knives are beautiful John, now I need to get back in the shop.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

thanks guys !!
the first half dozen, I was impatient to get it done. I only flame hardened the blade
and glued it in the handle, withOUT buffing and sharpening the it.
now I get the blade fully finished, half sharp, and high buff on the buffer.
THEN glue the blade in. the excess epoxy can be sanded off cleanly and the excess
blade trimmed off. a run on the router with a 1/4" round over and finish shaping on
the spindle sander and some hand sanding - very relaxing once you get the hang of it.
if you make your own, don't rush it. have a box of bandaids nearby.
I just pulled a bunch of examples off the internet and sort of made the pattern from there.
most will probably never be used - I just enjoyed making them.
(Mr. Yamato has inspired me to get back into the carving hobby).
I love his mallets and will be making a couple of those too.

.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What do you think you would like to carve? I've been carving most of my life and have never used a carving knife. Occasionally when I need a knife I will use a utility or exacto knife but that is all. I do most everything with chisels. 

I use a round mallet which I made out of ash turned on a lathe. Then to add some weight I drilled a 1 1/4" hole in the head of it and filled it with lead with a wood cap behind it.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

I am not a "carver" per se, I am just a piddler and collect tools.
a few of my projects are in my photos here.

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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I don't know if I could carve or whittle without my gouges and knives. Deep V cuts and round cuts would be my down fall.


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## SJB (Oct 16, 2020)

Hey John, where did you get these handles or did you make them? thanks


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

hi SJB - and welcome to the forum !!
it is refreshing to see brand new members with their profile
filled out appropriately and posting photos in the correct format.
well done !!

I cruise the internet looking at hundreds of carving knives and sort of
make my own design on paper. then use that as templates to be cut
out on the bandsaw using a 1/4" blade.
I feel that carving knives should fit the carvers hands to be comfortable.
when you buy those expensive knives from the supply houses, it is the
"one size fits most". well, I want to do better than that.
there are huge hands, there are big hands, and there are small hands.
these knives fit MY hands. (for the most part).
I use a 1/4" quarter round on the router. I made a special plate for this project.
of course, a router table would be nice. but mine has a 2" hole and no inserts.
so that would be pretty dangerous for the fingertips.
I also bought a spindle sander just for this project to help cut down on hand sanding.
I got the assorted wood from my local WoodCraft store. some, I don't 
even know the species, I just think they all look nice.
I used a 4" angle grinder to cut the metal to shape.
it is STRONGLY recommended that you have at least some experience with 
the power tools before attempting this project. you can lose a finger quicker
than you can say OOOOWWWWWWWW that HURT.

















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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

John, what style handle feels best for you carving or whittling for a while? I want to make some more knives but want to find the right handle that feels comfortable and doesn't wear my hand out.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

Jim - I haven't really done any serious "whittlin" lately.
I just found it interesting to make some knives that fit my hand.
once I found where my fingers and palm fit on the handle,
I just sort of went in that direction.
I guess for advice, I would suggest to get some modeling clay
and sort of hold it in your hand to shape then try to reproduce that shape
in bass wood or soft pine and refine it from there.
when I was shaping the handle on the spindle sander, I kept holding it
and removing wood until it was comfortable to hold.
what I did find that was a game changer for me is to put the little "dish"
for the thumb on the top of the handle. I probably spent more time shape - hold,
shape - hold, shape - hold it until it felt comfortable.
(notice the cut fingernail. I bumped the bandsaw blade TWICE in the same spot
8 days apart. the first time didn't get my attention - the second time definitely got it.
the 1/8" brass rods are available at Home Depot or you can use 1/8" copper grounding wire.

























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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks John, that makes sense, I will give that a try, I like that thumb indention.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I like the design of the top knife handle in John's photo, and it gave me an idea. I have a pizza cutter turning kit sitting around. Instead of the usual round turned handle, A pizza cutter handle shaped like John's design might sit flatter in the drawer and feel more comfortable in the hand. Thanks!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

John Smith_inFL said:


> Jim - I haven't really done any serious "whittlin" lately.
> I just found it interesting to make some knives that fit my hand.
> once I found where my fingers and palm fit on the handle,
> I just sort of went in that direction.
> ...


The knife in the top photo here is the one I really like, it has both thumb and index finger indents which is perfect when flipping the knife when in use. I flip my knives, as I make push and pull cuts. Those indents are really comfortable and make the handle fit perfect for me.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Day before yesterday I received five of the beautiful knives John made and sent to me. He also sent me three blanks so I could make a few of the knives for myself. Believe me when I say these knives are more beautiful in person than in the photos. 

The knives aren't sharpened and I like that. I am weird the way I sharpen my carving/whittling blades. Most people will sharpen a blade for a working blade that will withstand tough cutting. I taper the edge like a straight razor, it is more delicate but it is sharper, IMHO.

I am having a ball polishing the handles to a high sheen and removing any micro scratch there may be on the handles, I will sharpen the blades and mirror polish them soon. I can assure you I will use these knives a lot but I will baby them also. 

Thank you John, for these fantastic knives, I really do appreciate them a lot.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

well, I've run out of things to do that I can safely do in my "den" work area.
I narrowed down the style of handle I like (and Big Jim likes too). refined
the pattern a bit, cut some blanks, set up the fence on the bandsaw so they
will all be the same thickness. the last batch I made, I just knocked them out
without paying too much attention to the grain pattern or color. or even how
the blade fit into the slot. this time, I put a little more effort into seeing how 
it will look after it is made.
I just picked some blade designs - with no particular use in mind.



















then traced the blade designs out on the plate of tool steel and with the metal cutting bandsaw.
after the dry fit, I numbered each one with corresponding "dots" to match the handles. the dots were
punched in the metal with a sharp metal punch because a marker would eventually wear off. the top
of the handle tail will be the last to be sanded, so a pencil mark will do okay there.










then dry fit the blades to the handles and everything looks pretty good for the next step.
on to the grinder to remove most of the excess metal. then sharpen and heat treatment.
after the handles are shaped to the final design, the blades (that have been buffed to a high shine)
will be permanently affixed to the handle with epoxy and brass rivets.
then a lot of sanding on the spindle sander and other sanding methods.



















.*I guess you could call this project "Phase One".

.*


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That looks like a lot of fun John and you get beautiful knives in the process.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

well, here is the pile of completed knives from this project.
4 coats of Danish Oil on the handles. (now if only I had something to use them on).


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## Bob61 (Nov 7, 2020)

Those are really good looking handles John. I prefer straight like on OCCS knives or round and tapered at each end like on Mora carving knives. I tend to shift and rotate my grip on knives during carving and just could not get comfortable with contoured handles.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

Bob - these are basically chip carving knives for the style of work that I like to do. I will eventually be making some Mora style knives in the future.
I first make prototypes out of High Density Urethane (HDU) to fit my hand, then copy that into wood.
this is a HDU prototype I have been playing with for the "Rough-out" caricature carving.
I hope to get a few cowboy rough-outs with the next stimulus check.
there are several very talented knife makers and carvers on this forum that I have learned a LOT from !!!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Beautiful knives John, I really do like the ones you sent me, they are professionally made for sure. I do like the contoured handles. I also do rotate the knives when carving, but have no problem with them being contoured.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

Jim - I added a new scar to my left thumb - it is mostly healed up now.
that makes seven (that I can see).
my motto is: if you ain't bleedin on the wood, you ain't doin it right.
and you're right about the cut-resistant gloves - not worth a _hoot_ in whittlin.
sheet metal work, maybe. but not for carving.
I will start with these two Mora styles in the next round.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

One good thing getting cut with a sharp knife (if there is a good thing) it doesn't hurt. I have learned to keep my hands/fingers and other parts of my body out of firing line of a sharp knife. After a few cuts, it is just automatic for me. I have been cut many times even being careful, just the nature of the activity. 

I like both of those knives, especially the bottom one. That is the style blade I use most.

If I have a project that I know my thumb could be in the line of fire, I use some of the wrap that the VA uses after taking my blood. It is elastic and will wrap my thumb several times and it self sticks. It does help some if the knife slips, but if I am bearing down and the knife slips, it doesn't help a lot.

The gloves I have to help from slice cuts are the same a meat cutter uses. They aren't worth a cuss for stabs though.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

LOL I made myself a leather guard but very rarely use it. (it is too bulky).
I have some of that elastic bandage tape too - brown in color.
I think the green would be more effective so you can always see where your thumb is.
Happy Whittlin !!


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## Bob61 (Nov 7, 2020)

I took one of the cheapo cut resistant gloves and attacked it with a carving knife, surprisingly it was very difficult to cut. Based on what I found I do wear a glove on my off hand and have avoided those irritating little nicks. I tape up my thumb on the knife hand with that stick-to-itself safety tape, seems to work pretty well.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I have been carving with the crooked knives common to the First Nations carvers here in the Pacific North West.
Less than 10 years now.
I'm happy to pay a competent bladesmith to make the sweeps that I want.
I'll buy those blades (knives and adzes) and haft them in handles of my own design.
At the end of the day, the handle is everything. Fatigue hurts.
Don't think that I have built any more than 2 dozen knives of various sweeps.

I've been hit several times in the chest. Wrecks my shirt and the cut stings.
Super heavy duty canvas apron now, I can hear the hits.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brian T. said:


> I have been carving with the crooked knives common to the First Nations carvers here in the Pacific North West.
> Less than 10 years now.
> I'm happy to pay a competent bladesmith to make the sweeps that I want.
> I'll buy those blades (knives and adzes) and haft them in handles of my own design.
> ...


Brian, I know this is a little off topic but is the Woodcarving Illustrated forum still active?


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Yes, the WCI forums have risen from the ashes. We lost a lot of contributors, a bunch of us hung on and there's a load of new people from around the world. The big pisser is that the hack and rebuild erased every single picture in every old thread. Hardly what you could call "illustrated."
Some old pictures got reposted, some new stuff.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks Brian, I found it and rejoined. It has been several years since I was on there, I see a few of the old members there. Thanks again.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

I've been a member there for a pretty long time - just not very active.
I like reading more than commenting.
I just got back from WoodCraft in Orlando and picked up the recent magazine.
I first saw the magazine in my doctor's office about 10-15 years ago and have been
buying it off-n-on since then. great resource for any level of whittler !!!


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

John Smith_inFL said:


> I've been a member there for a pretty long time - just not very active.
> I like reading more than commenting.
> I just got back from WoodCraft in Orlando and picked up the recent magazine.
> I first saw the magazine in my doctor's office about 10-15 years ago and have been
> buying it off-n-on since then. great resource for any level of whittler !!!


I just rejoined, when the forum went down several years back, I guess it lost all the members info. There are a great bunch of guys there. I didn't post much back then, I just didn't have a lot of experience to contribute. I have sure gotten a lot from the members there though. 

I want to try a cowboy character. There was a place in Townsend Tennessee that had cut outs which would be a big help. Hopefully I can find another place to buy carving supplies.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

Jim - I am going to get some of those "rough-out" cowboy characters. (the 11" tall ones)
I picked up some curly maple from WoodCraft this morning to make some knives
just for that project. the "Mora Style". I have just enough high carbon tool steel for about 5 or 6 knives.
keep me in the loop as how you get started.
John


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

John Smith_inFL said:


> Jim - I am going to get some of those "rough-out" cowboy characters. (the 11" tall ones)
> I picked up some curly maple from WoodCraft this morning to make some knives
> just for that project. the "Mora Style". I have just enough high carbon tool steel for about 5 or 6 knives.
> keep me in the loop as how you get started.
> John


Same here, let me know how yours works out. Love to see some photos of your new knives, the high carbon steel blades are the way to go for me, they are easiest to sharpen and hold an edge really well.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I have had a couple of years of physical "down time" that I'm getting over now.
Have not carved anything new in years with a dozen projects stalled on the bench.

These are storey poles which will display the entire life cycle of butterflies.
From eggs through growing caterpillars to the cocoon and the new butterfly, top front.
I want to get these pieces done before others.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brian T. said:


> I have had a couple of years of physical "down time" that I'm getting over now.
> Have not carved anything new in years with a dozen projects stalled on the bench.
> 
> These are storey poles which will display the entire life cycle of butterflies.
> ...


That will be nice Brian, can't wait to see it finished. Sure am glad you are getting back on your feet after so long.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

wow - I have never heard of such a project, Brian. looking forward to seeing the updates.

I just ordered two roughouts from G&B Sears.








I'm not at the skill level yet where I can start from scratch.
so this will get me into a comfort zone where I start freehand projects.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

John Smith_inFL said:


> wow - I have never heard of such a project, Brian. looking forward to seeing the updates.
> 
> I just ordered two roughouts from G&B Sears.
> View attachment 423248
> ...


John, that is like I want to do also. Have you seen Lynn Doughty's carvings, he uses a sheet rock knife to carve with. Check out some of his carvings.



Portfolio


That guy makes it look so easy. He had a tutorial on the WCI, a few years back, how to carve different cowboys.

I just read about carving Catalpa wood, have you ever tried any? They say it carves pretty good, it just don't paint well.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

wow - that guy is museum quality !!! I would be so humbled just to be in the same room with him.
this is where I will be getting some of my roughouts from: Woodcarvings - G & B Sears Woodcarving - Woodcarving, Roughouts, Original Handcarved Woodcarvings


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm carving those poles with crooked knives that I have hafted in my own handles. Some Kestrel blades,
others used to be farrier's crooked hoof trimming knives, new and used.. Superior starting material.
The poles were roughed out from 5" x 5" x 64" cedar posts. Elbow adzes and a draw knife.

I have another story pole that shows the life of a frog. Just the final adult frog to finish. About 3" x 24".


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks for the link John, that is a good price for those. The last bass wood I bought was almost that price and it was just a block of wood large enough to cut a cowboy out of.

Brian, the hoof knife is one I want to get one day. I really enjoy making spoons that that knife would be perfect. I would really like to see some of you work.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

With the farrier's hoof knife, you can cut off the hook for a point or open it up slightly with a 7/16" chainsaw file 
to get a wonderful little scorp of an edge. I've done both and cut the whole hook off for a sharp spade-like tip
on my 2-handed planer knives.

To begin with for spoons, I suggest a blade in the 'C' profile as you can get from Kestrel Tool. It's a big blade.
Really for 24" projects (feast dishes, etc) and up to genuine poles.
Jamie Sharp and Lee Valley have smaller blades, a little easier to handle for smaller projects. Some spoon carvers go for the Morakniv #162, #163 or #164. Those are quite tight sweeps for kuksa and the like. There are a couple of other goodbladesmiths in the PacNW but fairly expensive. Jamie hafts his blades, they need your own choice of edge.
I did 70 spoons in birch, mostly used a 9/15 Pfeil gouge.

Then you can do the big rough-outs with an elbow adze (I use 2 of them) and a D-adze (14 oz beast) and a draw knife.

Not 10 years yet but I'm really happy learning how to make and use the common wood carving tools of the First Nations here in the Pacific Northwest. At the end of the day, I realize that the handles are everything for fatigue and ease of working. The hand grip area needs to be sized for you just like tennis raquet handles. Once you figure that out, make every tool the same. For my big hands and long fingers, that's 7/8" inch. I can go 3/4" up to 1" but any more or less is uncomfortable in no time.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brian T. said:


> With the farrier's hoof knife, you can cut off the hook for a point or open it up slightly with a 7/16" chainsaw file
> to get a wonderful little scorp of an edge. I've done both and cut the whole hook off for a sharp spade-like tip
> on my 2-handed planer knives.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks Brian, that is some great information, I really appreciate it a lot.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

You are most welcome. Now that I have a number of years using these tools, I think I'm ready to answer questions from anyone interested. I have a couple dozen crooked knives now, all sorts of shapes. There's a parallel with gouges in that you pick the one that makes the cut you need to do.

Did I ever show the Raven bow drill or the Aztec corn dish here? Frog Pie?


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

probably start a new thread that would focus on what projects are your specialty. (and some photos).
and the tools that get the job done.
I am pretty interested in the hook knives, although I have never used one.
do you make any of your specialty tools yourself ?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Brian T. said:


> You are most welcome. Now that I have a number of years using these tools, I think I'm ready to answer questions from anyone interested. I have a couple dozen crooked knives now, all sorts of shapes. There's a parallel with gouges in that you pick the one that makes the cut you need to do.
> 
> Did I ever show the Raven bow drill or the Aztec corn dish here? Frog Pie?


I don't think you posted photos of those. I will start a new thread named Wood Carving Projects. Please do post some photos there, I would love to see them.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I posted some pictures of my adzes and crooked knives in the new carving project thread.
I haven't built a knife in awhile as I bought some already hafted with handles big enough to fit my hands.
Some carving pictures, too. The apple pie is long gone.


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## woodciro (Aug 23, 2009)

John Smith_inFL said:


> as my "spare time" keeps getting extended, I will be undertaking my next
> project of making some carving knives. (then I will learn how to carve).
> I see on 99% of the YT videos, they are all about just "making" the knives
> out of a saw blade with no heat treatment or tempering. there are no
> ...


Somewhere below sawzall blades are mentioned, and Milwaukee "Torch" blades in particular. I have made 5 or 6 carving knives from these, and they hold an edge very well. I ground them out paying particular attention to cooling, and none whatsoever to where the "tooth edge" was. They cut soft carving wood almost as well as commercial knives, and would probably cut just as well if I were better at sharpening.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm very happy to buy the skills of experienced bladesmiths. There is an E2 blade in the snail mail from Jamie Sharp as I type. Heating and tempering the blade with a sweep is just something that I'm not prepared to get into. In anticipation, I need to root around and find some wood for a handle. Yellow cedar is gaining in popularity, I've got a few 3" x 6" x 60".

For Ulu and Umialik and stout blades, a rusty 10" table saw blade is a good source.
For wood carving knives that are just little flakes of steel, SawzAll blades and the like.

The cuts with an angle grinder are sort of a dashed line, join-the-dots kind of a thing.
Would a scroll saw/jig saw work? I've never tried it.

For mild crooked blades with/with out a scorp tip, farrier's knives can't be beat.
I'll revise the bevel from 25* down to 12* with a 7/16" chainsaw file to begin with.
Hall brand farrier's knives are so hard that I can do no more than 2 at a time and the chainsaw file is ruined.
Unlike a hardware store, the local forestry supply here has files in boxes of a dozen.
I suppose that a farrier could forge some cute blades out of a dead chainsaw file.

Then, if you feel like it, bash off the factory handles and make more traditional First Nations style wood carving handles.

For adze blades, different widths of leaf spring from vehicles is the sole choice. 7/8" up to 1 1/2".
You can copy a very useful set of blade dimensions straight out of the catalog page from Kestrel Tool.

I have seen pictures of First Nation adzes with 1/2 an axe head as the blade. It can be done.

With an angle grinder, make a shallow scoop in the leaf for length instead of a straight cut to cut them off the stock.
You can get 2 at a time done and the bevel in the bargain. That, I'm prepared to do but outside.
The local auto wrecker is a blade collector, I must pay him a visit.


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## mike swin (7 mo ago)

John, What thickness D1 did you use for your knives and what is your preferred sharpening method ?

THX


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

I have two dozen knives (more or less) and most are of different sizes in everything.
please show us some of your knives and projects you have carved.
Edit; sharpening depends entirely on my mood at the time. how dull the blade is, what material I'm working with, yada yada yada


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## mike swin (7 mo ago)

I just these

Floor Dot 04-3032 8" HD Scraper Blades (10 Pack)
$6.25 these are .065 thick and will make some nice knives I hope. I can get at least 2 and maybe 3 from each blade. These are high carbon and the bevel at 30 degrees will need thining to 15 or so. I bought these from www.tools4flooring.com
Mike
[Additional link added by moderator] Floor Dot 04-3032 8" HD Scraper Blades (10 Pack)


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

I stumbled upon this DIYer who made a spoon gouge from a box wrench!


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