# mold on new doug fir



## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

building new set of doug fir stairs..got lumber roughly a month ago..it was frozen when delivered. I live in Missouri, hard winter this go around. The lumber company let it thaw out then milled it down to size.

here is what I got:

12x4 for stringers

10x4 for treads

6x8 for posts

ok so now that it has been sitting in my unheated garage, I now see some of the lumber has white mold!

The lumber is up off the concrete, but not stickered...I will sticker them, but how do I get rid of th mold?

we have built mock up of stairs with 2x12 and 2x10 pine..see photos

any help will be appreciated!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Have to ask... Fehlig Bro's? That where I got all my lumber when I lives in St Louis 

Not sure what to tell ya on the mold, sorry...


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

As it dries and dies just scrape it off, should be fine.
By the way Welcome and nice timbers.
Show us more.


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

got the lumber from schuttes lumber in Kansas City. ( I doubt I spelled that right!)

Good deal on just scraping it off! There is not alot, but when I saw it, I was mad!:furious:

I have never worked with wet lumber like this before! Tomorrow we are going to build the lower landing, and then start putting the real stairs up! Here are some more photos.


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Nice House.:thumbsup:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

You could use a bleach solution in a spray bottle (like an old Windex bottle) and spritz on.












 







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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

+1 on the bleach solution. If you don't kill the mold, if conditions become right to support growth again, it will come back.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

WARNING !!!! Some molds are dangerous, some aren't as harmful. If scraping, for safety I'd definitely use a HEPA filtered vac and keep cleaned up. After scraping, spray with a bleach solution as cabinetman reccomended (whole board not just spot) . 
As for the cause of mold...1) Any time upon receiving wetted wood ( wood getting wet after kilning) always set around flat and straight with stickers to dry back out. This will REDUCE chances of mold. 
2) I suppose if it's been as wet/frozen as you explained, a meter may need to be used prior to using/building with the wood. The work I seen in photos of house appears very nice, so don't skip the good drying(re) of the steps preventing warpage and undue shrinkage.

I was surprised the wood was shipped untarped/unprotected. I normally see wood bundles shipped wrapped or (from a family of older truck drivers) expected to be tarped if bad weather. If it was shipped "in the dry" why would it be frozen if kilned?????

Keep us posted on progress (with pics). Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

the lumber was never kiln dried, just shipped, and milled. Am I in trouble here? I will spray down the lumber with the bleach solution and sticker em, should I put a fan on em also?


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Yes on the fan or dehumidifier.

I hear Daren's got a great DH kiln plan that might could be modified for the small amount you have or someone in your area may have the services to offer.

In my opinion you'll have trouble be due to the extra shrinkage that's GOING to happen from a "green" state of wood. From the knowledge I've acquired over the years from reading and repairs, the older timber frames and log homes were built "green" BUT the trimming was allowed to dry to best of their knowledge ( propably more than our generation will ever know !! ) prior to being installed. There's several on this site that deal with the heavier timbers and interiors that can answer better than I. Thick boards are harder to dry but some is better than none long term. 

Give us a little info on this house project. Is it yours or a whole or partial project. Years of experience in this field?? or just homeowner doing his own work or just subbing a part?? This will give our contributors some insight at what level to help explain techniques.

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Also the 10" treads doesn't meet most codes correctly and the mock-up has large dangerous toe gaps where a leg could easily slip into. This mock-up could just be that and not tread sized correctly.

This is where I see more trouble and errors is in step/tread layouts. Open toe stairs are nice just watch toe gaps and tread overlap correctly for safety.

You may be in a none code or inspected area as I BUT doesn't mean safety is set aside.

Again have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

Tennessee Tim,

You are correct about the mock ups...the treads in the "real" stairs will be 12 inches..no gaps! How high do you recommend the hand rails be? 

What I have read so far says anywhere from 30 to 3 inches...I am 6'3" and a 32 or 34" hand rail feels comfortable.

Yes, this is my house..and yes I am doing all the interior finish work myself! A friend is helping on the stairs, but I am doing everything else!

We are not PROS! He has alot of background in construction, but I dont!

I am a physician, and have a very stressful life! Doing this allows me to relax and unwind!

Here are more photos of the house..

Tomorrow, we finish up on the landing in the basement, then start mocking up the stringers for the basement! Also gonna move the stack into the house and sticker it..will spray down the wood and scrub with soft brush and put fan on em..

I have geothermal heat in house, and place is very arid! I have to wet down the subfloor with a bit of water when I put down durock for the tile..if I didint the cement would dry out too fast!

Will post more soon!


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Try this helpful Link http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/x...957/5043/Mold_Growth_Green_ocr.pdf?sequence=1


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Most residential handrails are required @ 36" have heard of one or two @ 42" but mostly for commercial. I have found 42" are nice hieght to lean on. I (and I don't know if this is "correct" way) measure my stair rails @ the nose but from step below @ 36". This is usually a comfortable hiegth from either step up or down.

The pics are gorgeous.Love timber frames.

I think JMC can give you more pointers since he works with timbers more. He beat me to the draw tonight, got to playing with granddaughter instead of typing.

Have a Blessed night,
Tim

PS I bought a farm for the R&R, and I do understand. I go bushhogging and get in a different ZONE.....AAAHHHHH!!!! Just the Lord and I !!!


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

thanks everyone for the help so far!:thumbsup:

Here is some photos of timber stacked, and 2 close ups of the fungus among us!

JMC, whats your opinion on the height of the handrails? 

If I go 36, then the newl posts at the lower landing will be very tall! I gotta get furniture upstairs! We were thinking 32 and the posts would be 36 tall..are we way off base here?


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

My opinion is that you should check with local code inforcement because every town is different. Especially if you think you may be putting it on the market. As far as your wood stacks, the one on the right just scares the heck outta me. 
Be safe, James


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

Yeah the one on right looks wobbly but in the pic its an optical illusion. The stack is sturdy..you cant see the other 6x8 beam in the shadow..as for where I live...

Livingston county Missouri uses the 2006 international building code according to their wesite..

I pulled up the 2006 international building code, and it does NOT specify handrail height! So much help! Has all the down low on the tread height, depth etc, but I cant find anything on the handrail height!


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

In that case I would recomend 30" plumb up from the top edge of tread nosing and no less than 33" on flat balcony and landing rails.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

*Correction on measuement*

I've got to quit typing when tired. I stated "I measure from base" but should've been from nose of tread. I pulled up this link www.qis-tx.com-documents-stair.installation.guidelines.pdf on stairs/railings IRC code ?? a visual look . It's the best example I've ever found. I also found while searching a "new to me" on the open riser showing maximum of 4" opening but didn't really like the looks of the "fixes" though UUGH :thumbdown::thumbdown:.

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

That appears to be a pretty good link Tim. :thumbsup:


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

JMC,

I wish all codes was written with good illustrations/photos. That's why there's SO MUCH CONFUSION on what's correct/incorrect. You have to have a lawyers degree to read AND then only the lawyers can SEMI-interpret and NONE know the BASICS of how it's done. Ask three codes officials a specific technical question and you'll get three different answers. CODES are specific BUT VERY VAGUE leaving lots of GRAY instead of BLACK and WHITE.

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

chulett said:


> Yeah the one on right looks wobbly but in the pic its an optical illusion. The stack is sturdy..you cant see the other 6x8 beam in the shadow..as for where I live...
> 
> Livingston county Missouri uses the 2006 international building code according to their wesite..
> 
> I pulled up the 2006 international building code, and it does NOT specify handrail height! So much help! Has all the down low on the tread height, depth etc, but I cant find anything on the handrail height!


Local building codes will (or should) have minimums and maximum heights for handrail. They may differ for residential/commercial applications.

Looking at your stacks of lumber, I suggest making your stickers much smaller. The ones pictured are wide and will minimize air flow. They only have to be the same height for each layer, and 1/2" to 3/4" wide.












 







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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

thanks for the tip on the stickering! Will get it changed out.

I do have a very important question to ask everyone.

The headroom going into the base will me 6'4", and the minimum headroom should be 6'8"!

Now from the landing in the basement up to the ceiling is fine. Its the 3rd tread down where the problem lies!:furious:

If you go back and look at the photos again, the stairway configuration is the same going into the basement, as up to the loft. I dont have alot of room for the landing.

What am I supposed to do? I just I can take out more of the flooring and scoot it back 7 inches, then reinforce it. This would open up the hole and eliminate the problem.

Any suggestions?


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Just asking, is it 6'4" from the corner of the head peice plumb down to the outer plane or the next step up from that point? Don't mean to sound insulting but in my experience the question I didn't ask for that purpose is the one I should have ask. Clear as mud?:smile:


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

According to the pics, is the basement stairs in the hole below?? If this is so, is the landing platform the issue??? looks like it could be shortened towards stair base, OR is it the unseen floor system which may be more difficult depending on floor system layout and if timber framed also. This is the most common thing I find when viewing floor plans is the lack of stairway space besides TOO NARROW of doors!!! 

Send us pics of the stairwell hole and headroom problem and we may be able to give accurate suggestions.

WELCOME to the world of CONSTRUCTION/REMODELING. This is where the big bucks come in....HEADACHES UNANTICIPATED!!!!! :huh::huh: LOL!!!:laughing::laughing:

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

*doug fir stringers and treads up!*

here is updated photos...yes the stringers and treads were VERY HEAVY:blink: We guess bout 800 or more lbs! Next we will put in the newels and then the handrails..handrails gonna be 32 inches at top


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

not sure photos loaded..will try again! Ok I think they did!


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

So, am I correct in assuming that the holes in the back of the treads are for screws that are keeping the treads from splitting because they are butt/jointed to the stringers?


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

yes sir you are correct! today we rigged together one of the landing railings...used cedar precut handrail, married a piece of doug fir we cut, and then the bottom of rail is also cut out of doug fir.

local lowes only had precut cedar handrail at 6 ft..we needed more..so we spliced a piece by 45ing it and glued/screwed from bottom when we joined the doug fir base to the cedar..took about an hour of hand sanding to make it look kinda like it belonged!

We are waiting to get a longer router bit (3 inches) from city..I live in small town and local stores don't carry what we need...have to route out the newel posts to slip over the stringer/first tread on the stair system running up to the loft..

Man do i have alot of sanding to do! Here are few pics..let me know what you guys think..remember neither the guys in the photo or I ever built stairs before! Please be kind!:huh:


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## JMC'sLT30 (Oct 26, 2010)

Very nice, the only thing I would offer is that since your treads are butt jointed I would get some black wrought iron looking angles to lag in under them.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

LOOKING GOOD!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup: Love the pics.:yes: I'd like to see one of the riser area fix. It's always interesting to see how people overcome unexpected hurdles, some are very creative. I've always thought metal and wood look good together. I need to find a few pics from my last stairs and post here.

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

ok..here are more photos of the work in progress..we just completed the landing in the basement and are starting work on the stringers


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

*pics*

here are the pics


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

*cold air returns*

have a question,

Can I make my own cold air return grilles? Been looking for some and have some big holes to fill! Got 3...I found a style I really like and I think I can build it out of wood i have...I attached photo

rough opening for the cold air returns are as follows:

14 1/4 x 29 3/4

6 x 13 3/4

14 3/4 x 10

any ideas and input is welcome!








also put some pics of stairs in progress! Last photos never worked!


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

*grille pic*

heres photos


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Yes you can build them BUT NOTE all venting is rated at CFM and sometimes the wood grills have more restriction/less air flow due to parts size compared to metal in strentgh. The last big remodel we were on , the home owners failed to tell the HVAC guys they were going with wood grills and all boots were already installed. After large discusion and a cost est. for changing all the sizes to larger , homeowners decided they could live with the metal. It's not a huge change in size but based on cfm that wood vent can flow.

The design you showed looks to have larger openings than other wood grills I've seen.

Like the pics, seeing progress.

Have a Blessed day,
Tim


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## chulett (Mar 14, 2011)

thanks for the information..I did pick up cheap metal grill at lowes and spraypainted it with rustoleum metallic oil rubbed bronze...had to paint a lil of the wall to cover the white wall that you could see thru the slants..also painted the interior of the return to cover the 4x4 and exposed sheet rock..not too bad..just was wanting something more decorative....looking on line at the cost of these grilles! WOW:no:

if i made a wood twig one like in the photo..I would just just branches I get from my woods..RUSTIC! Will keep holes plenty large enough not to hinder the geothermal unit i have


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