# Trebuchet Toys



## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

A test of photo posting, I'm new here.

I have built and operated 14 trebuchet. Sometimes, a guy just has to make his own toys. They are fantastic pieces of integrated geometry. The entire design of a treb is predicated on a weight ratio of 200:1, up to 300:1. More or less is inefficient.
Fixed counterweights and wheels are really junior mistakes.

Here's a "banquet-buster." 5lb downrigger lead ball counterweight and a Dougfir arm. This design will put an ice cube or an olive onto the Head Table from 50'. Frame parts are 1x2 survey stick spruce.

This one was designed to be right at my personal limits for lifting, carrying and transport. It breaks down into pieces, assembly takes maybe 20+ minutes with a socket wrench to snug up a bunch of lag bolts. Even with less than 200lbs steel in the counterweight, I can put a grapefruit over a 3 storey building at better than 60mph. Oranges go like bullets and 500g ice cubes leave no evidence.
Oak throwing arm, mahogany bearing blocks. 1x2 steel uprights and a stack of 2" x 2" x 16" steel bars in the counterweight. I was too lazy to bring them all out for pictures.

Adhering to many centuries of tradition, I won't show you close-ups the trigger mechanisms. They are different and they are in plain sight.


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## snookfish (Jan 10, 2011)

I had students make a few out of PVC pipes just to sling tennis balls. They absolutely loved that project. At the time I wanted to make it out of wood, but PVC was far cheaper and did fine with tennis balls. We used an old paint can filled with sand as the counter balance. Yours is far better than anything I put together!


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## SawdusttillSunset (Mar 15, 2012)

That's Awesome! How about a video of it in action?
Nice work:thumbsup:


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Hey Snook! Thanks. Aren't they fun? Good, wholesome mayhem and destruction. That big one was #9 or 10, I've long since forgotten.
It turned out to be ideal for optimizing the design before I went bigger.

Nothing big, wooden and unprotected lasts long up here. Eventually the big ones were dismantled and cut up for (gun) clubhouse fire wood.

Sawdust, I could do that next summer. The frame is buried in a snowdrift right now. Tarp is roped down over the bearing blocks, the rest of it is in the house.


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

Woo Hoo! I've been wanting to build a Trebuchet for a while now, just never have done so. Thanks for the reminder and inspiration!


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## ThomasOSB (May 21, 2009)

"Have fun storming the castle!" 
--Miracle Max in "The Princess Bride"


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

The bad guys(?) had to stay out of long bow range, generally conceded to be 300 yards for a killing shot. Thus the treb had to be effective from that distance. The largest documented treb was the "War Wolf" which was capable of throwing a 1,500lb dead horse into the castle courtyard. Hugh Kennedy (Britain) has built one, he gets off on throwing small cars, flaming toilets and grand pianos. I'd love to find out how his trigger works.


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## Bait (Dec 20, 2012)

I have been holding an apple cider pressing party at my house in the fall for a few years. Every year we say we are going to build a tre to shoots apples across the neighbors field with between presses, and every year we dont get it done. Its on the list of to do's.

How much counter balance weight would it take to throw an apple 300 yards?


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## ChiknNutz (Apr 22, 2011)

Hey Bait, love your signature...both comments!


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## 65BAJA (May 27, 2012)

I've always wanted to build one of these for my desk at work.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Bait: weight a bunch of apples, divide by the # of apples for the average weight. Expect 200:1 to give you 150+ yards. I don't know if you could get 300 with an apple. The counterweight would have to fall maybe 10' to give you the speed.
You have to get the throwing arm pivot point in the right place plus the weight of the arm, fore and aft. Then you have to get the sling length right and get the release pin canted correctly to give you maximum range. As I said above, fantastic piece of integrated geometry. Otherwise, you could wind up breaking a window in your own house, behind you.
But, you get one to go right and they scale up or down easily.

65BAJA: take a look at torsion machines like an Onager.


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## SawdusttillSunset (Mar 15, 2012)

ThomasOSB said:


> "Have fun storming the castle!"
> --Miracle Max in "The Princess Bride"



:thumbsup::thumbsup:YES!!!!!!:laughing::laughing:


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Apparently and sometimes, the king in the castle would give up without a fight when he learned that the bad guys were building a treb to
smash his castle. Then one king sent an emissary out to the bad guys to negotiate some sort of a peace. The bad guys killed him, loaded him into the treb and flung him back into the castle.

When the Spanish Conquistadors arrived in Mexico, they decided that they wanted a castle and all the gold in it but the king didn't want to give it all up. So they figured that they could build a treb and bomb the guy out of his home with 600lb rocks. So they did. First shot and the sling released prematurely. The rock went straight up and straight back down on the treb. Ka-Blooey.

Then gunpowder spoiled all the fun.


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## J Thomas (Aug 14, 2012)

Here's a vid of the Brit with his treb..
Now "I" want one.:yes:
..Jon..


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks, JT, that's Hugh Kennedy alright.
What an entertaining way to spend an afternoon.
HK has always been an advocate of the swinging bucket-counterweight design.

I'll guess that the treb in the video was a design and build by some other people
for a BBC documentary. The fixed counterweight is a stack of cast lead half-hexagons,
collared around the end of the arm. I can't imagine the wealth and the economic chain 
needed to make that counterweight in 12th century Britain. The climb up the throwing arm 
looked so very familiar. If I'm right, the program was fascinating to watch.
That would be something to find and study.


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

but when the trebuchet can actually hurl a pumpkin and knock someone senseless... is it still a toy?

been meaning to build a minature one... great work!


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd never label any trebuchet of any size as a toy.
That "banquet-buster" can rearrange your face and send you off to a dental surgeon in the blink of an eye (if you still have an eye that blinks.) The bigger one could easily cripple you or kill you outright.

If anything, they are functional models of medieval war machines.
The diabolical part, is that unlike a firearm, they are whisper quiet.

OK, so there's a half-ton of old batteries in the counterweight.
Payload is a 5lb sack of flour. I line up half a dozen guys with 12ga and old (illegal) #4 duck loads. Kind of an Annie Oakley style shoot if they ever stop laughing. All they can hear through their 'muffs might be the click of the trigger, with their backs to the treb.
Once that paper bag gets ripped, time for shredding!


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

Hi Robson.

Great little toy. I hope Buggyman and Kenbo miss this thread. 

Merry Christmas

Pete


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## Brentley (Dec 2, 2012)

quando trebuchets proscriptae soli proscript habebit trebuchets


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

G'Day STAR: We gotta lock IGGY out of this. Unless he posts his sticks for bashing people.

I'm in the city for Christmas, if the HWY is clear (no avalanches, etc), I'll thread my way home maybe the 28-29. Was 225km of combed, glare ice coming in. Apparently going E to Jasper was much worse.
Anyway, for the do-ers, I'll post some measurements from the banquet buster. It is an accurately scaled down version of that big one. The talkers can watch.
I then went on to a 10X version out at the club. It didn't last more than a couple of years in the WX then I figured it was unsafe to even Kock the arm!


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Brentley: Can you post a translation?
I don't get paid enough in retirement to remember anything 
more than newspaper-level english.


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## Brentley (Dec 2, 2012)

When trebuchets are outlawed only outlaws will have trebuchets. I forget when I originally heard it, but every time I see a trebuchet I think about it 

I also want to build a small version for my desk as it would be a great conversation piece.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks, Brentley.
When I get back home in about a week, I will measure and post some critical dimensionsfrom the "banquet buster." The numbers don't matter at all = what really matters are the proportions, the ratios, of the lengths of one part to another. The real Hell of it is, you will discover that if you change the length of one part, you might as well start all over.

Because you can cast/freeze ice cubes in any size you like, they are ideal for fine tuning designs. Think 200:1. Weigh a bunch of ice cubes. What's the average weight? x200 and you know what the counterweight will need to be. What have you got for a counterweight? Chunk of railroad track in your pocket is hard to conceal.

My GF carried the 5lb weight in her purse (women's purses always weigh a ton, anyway.) I'd just kind of hold the treb behind my back until I could slide it under the table. Then, people came to expect it.


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