# Help! Blotchy Stain after Using Pre-Stain!



## HairAngler88 (Feb 18, 2017)

I am staining Tongue and Groove panel board. I am applying both the pres-stain and stain with a foam brush. 

Unfortunately, I am still getting blotchyness all over. Not sure where I am going wrong. 

Any guidance would help, Thanks!


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

It looks like the wood is pine with lots of knots. The wood grain around those knots is different than the rest of the board. Question: If you rotate the boards 180 degrees, do the "blotches" change? If so, it's because the grain direction has changed to the viewing eye. What kind of stain are you using? Does it have a lot of pigment in it? It looks like the "blotchy" areas are more open and holding the stain (pigment?) more than the rest of the wood. The rest of the wood is not retaining the stain as much, causing the contrast. You might need to use a filler on the bare wood to keep the stain from causing the dark areas. Using fillers is a whole different technique.


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## HairAngler88 (Feb 18, 2017)

Im using minwax dark walnut....The blotches don't change when I rotate the boards...The tongue and groove board was pretty smooth to start with so I decided to not sand it. Do you think that could be the problem?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

When ever you use a stain you need to try it on scrap first and see how it works. It could be you needed a different wood conditioner or perhaps two coats of conditioner. After it's on the project it has to be stripped with a chemical remover and have a lot of sanding before you can try again. 

The stain, did you let it sit for a long time before you wiped it off? That would counteract what the conditioner does for the wood. 

The Charles Neil blotch control is suppose to be a good conditioner. I've always used a 50/50 mixture of linseed oil and mineral spirits and let it dry prior to staining.


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## HairAngler88 (Feb 18, 2017)

Steve,

I did test out the stain on some 10" sections and it came out way better then the pictures I posted which is what threw me off. I used minwax pre-stain. I then let the stain sit for 10-minutes. How long should I let the stain sit with prestain?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Ten minutes is way too long to let stain sit. You pretty much wipe it off as fast as you put it on whether you use pre-stain or not. The wood conditioner is a thin sealer. When you use a conditioner the soft parts of the wood absorb more of the conditioner than the hard areas of the wood. This evens out the surface so you don't have such a dramatic difference in density in wood. By letting the stain sit and soak for ten minutes the stain is able to soak through the conditioner and blotch the wood. I think if you had wiped the stain immediately it wouldn't have done that. I don't use the Minwax conditioner so I can say for sure.


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## Jesse Blair (Oct 9, 2016)

That looks pretty good to me, for it being unsanded knotty pine. Some woods just aren't going to stain nice and even, no matter what you do. I always sand before staining though. Any small imperfections in the surface will cause a light or dark spot compared to the rest of the wood. If I want to try and reduce blotching, I normally just use a coat of a 1/2lb - 1lb cut dewaxed shellac.


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## HairAngler88 (Feb 18, 2017)

Steve,

Everything I read says let the stain sit for 5-15 min. How do I get the desired shade if I apply and wipe off immediately?


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

Minwax stains (and others like them) contain a weak binder to hold the pigment in place so you can top coat it. The Minwax Dark Walnut has a lot of pigment (finely ground bits) in it in addition to a dye portion. Leaving the stain on so long will let the binder soak into the more porous grain and as Steve pointed out, allow the stain to color those areas darker. Pine has early wood and late wood rings that have very different densities and thus make it difficult to stain evenly. The dye portion of the Dark Walnut stain is a rather weak dye and thus doesn't penetrate the harder/denser portions of the wood, while the pigment gets caught in the more open grain around the knots. Back to the practice pieces and try more sealer on the very porous areas followed by a light sanding. Again, I'd suggest a stainable wood filler for the knot areas, followed by sanding to see if that allows you to evenly stain those really porous areas that you see around the knots. Many years ago, I recall reading in a book on wood finishing (either Flexner or Dresdner) that pine was the worst species to try to learn wood coloring with due to the grain structure.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

HairAngler88 said:


> Steve,
> 
> Everything I read says let the stain sit for 5-15 min. How do I get the desired shade if I apply and wipe off immediately?


I've seen people and directions say to let the stain soak for that long but it always causes problems. If say the wood was oak you wouldn't have the wood come out blotchy but you would spend hours wiping the stain off. It would keep oozing stain for a long time making black spots on the wood if you didn't just keep coming back wiping the stain off. You should always only stain once too. If you managed to let stain dry o n the surface the finish would bond to the stain instead of the wood and peal off. 

The wood is going to absorb all it should immediately. The reason you had the wood come out blotchy is you let the stain sit long enough to soak through the conditioner. If the color isn't dark enough then a darker stain should be used. Another option if you had the means of spraying is to supplement the color with a dye stain.


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