# How to properly dry slabs?



## Shop Dad

I hope I'm posting this to the right area. Please pardon if it should be in another section.

I've picked up some freshly cut slabs to start building a collection of lumber for projects down the road. This is black walnut and cherry (I'm told, but the sapwood looks very yellow). It's still very wet, especially with the rain we have been having in the East. I need to dry them and I could use some advice.

I plan to put them in the garage attic where they can sit inside and undisturbed (no AC). I know I need to seal the ends but I'm not sure what I need to use. I'll sticker them up in the garage attic. My understanding is they should dry at a rate of one year per inch. Would that hold for inside as well? I did pick up the inexpensive moisture meter at Lowes and they are hitting the 20s and 30s.

Sealing ends: Can I use paste wax? Latex paint? (I have these on hand.) or do I need something more specific like Anchorseal?

Stickering: every 2 feet? Does it matter what wood I use? Hardwood, plywood, MDF, pine? 3/4" enough?

As you can see these are fresh cut from the logs, mostly 5/4. Should I cut off the edge/bark before sticking?

Many, many thanks for any assistance. First time doing this and I'd like to get this as right as I can.


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## dmh

Probably would be best to store them at my house.:yes:


Just subscribing to your thread. I’m interested in how it’s done as well.


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## joasis

My grandfather always used the attic for a kiln. You can use old latex paint to seal the ends if you like, if you are going to be doing this more then once, buy some anchor seal.


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## woodtick greg

I air dry a lot of slab lumber, hardwood stickers are about the best if they are dry just due to their stiffness. 1 inch stickers are best but dont get to hung up on that, 3/4 will be just fine. put that what looks like a 2" or thicker slab on the top to help keep everything flat. i use latex paint as i always seem to have some left over from house projects. just put the paint on the ends heavy, i usually do it after its stickered but you might want to do it first depending on how much room is in your attic. i have not used anchorseal but a lot of guys on this forum use it. the walnut will be very stable but the cherry is prone to check and split in my experiances with it. no need to remove the bark for drying. if you can wieght the cherry to aid in keeping it flat while drying. I have used plywood for stickers but it is more bendy and I prefer hardwood, dont think i would use mdf.
did a friend mill that or you or a sawmiller? reason i ask is i always choose one or two less desireable boards to sacrifice for stickers, stickers can be reused many times. inside a garage will speed dry time to some extent but dont rush it, i still use the year per inch rule, a fan to promote air movement helps. turn fan on during the day and off at night as when it gets cooler at night evaporation slows, evaporation picks up with the temperature. get that wood stickered as soon as possible.


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## fromtheforty

I've always heard that Latex paint does not make good end seal. I was told that latex paint "breathes" and because of that it does not work well for sealing. Maybe somebody can confirm or correct my understanding on this.

Geoff


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## woodtick greg

geoff, anchorseal is probably better but i use latex paint with good results. think about it, it seals your house trim right? i'm not sayin its better but it does work and everyone seems to have left over paint. its a usefull way to get rid of it.


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## wooddude

air dried wood will usually gets down to a moisture content of 12% or a little less kiln dried around 8%
use that moisture meter i use mine alot when buying wood to wet or to dry can cause warping problems when submitted to changes in temp and humidity


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## Biscobob

I use paraffin wax with Johnson's paste wax added to it for sealing green walking stick blanks and large slabs. 10 parts wax, 1 to 2 parts Johnson's seems to work real well. Granted I don't have large amounts of stock to seal. Keep a small aluminum pot in the garage, mix up a batch and just let the leftover cool in the pan until I need it again.


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## Shop Dad

*Great tips!*

Thanks all for the helpful posts. :thumbsup:

Looks like I'll just use latex paint since I can't get Anchorseal close by and am too cheap to pay shipping to Woodcraft (unless anyone happens to have a free shipping code handy). I'll try to post pix once I have these guys all tucked away.


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## Shop Dad

*To wrap this one...*

Thanks again for the suggestions. I tried to get Anchorseal locally but their dealer locator was not cooperating so I ended up using some latex paint I had. These guys are bedded down for a while. Couple of years and they will start turning into some nice projects if all goes according to plan!


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## Jfore

Put your self a couple of ratchet straps around them. May help on curling. Don't think there is enough weight there to prevent it. I would have used MDF as stickers. Even if your stickers are very dry they absorb the moisture from the extremely wet slabs and then return the moisture to the slabs and leave "sticker stain." 

Nice slabs though.


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## Jfore

And keep an eye out for bugs! Don't want those in your attic....


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## Shop Dad

How do I use the ratchet straps? Which way will the wood move that it will help? I do have a 3" x 12" x 6' walnut slab that I would have put on top of those but there was no way I was getting it up there. It's drying upright in the garage. I used one of the "less desirable" cherry boards for the stickers as a poster recommended. How deep does sticker stain go? These are rough-sawn so some material will come off in use.


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## woodtick greg

just wrap the straps around the stack as if you were glueing the log back together, helps to keep boards flat and prevent twist and warp, keep the metal parts of the strap from touching the flat part of the slab, 3 straps per stack, position it so that it touches the bark edge as that will probably be removed anyway in the final milling. check the straps often during the drying process as the wood will shrink as it dries and need to be retightened. as far as sticker stain goes I dont think you will have much of an issue with that as it will be warm and dry in your attic, if you can put a fan up there to move the air during the day, this will help with surface moisture and hinder sticker stain and mold. I reuse my stickers so the are pretty old and dry, if I do get any sticker stain it comes off in the jointing and planeing of final milling.


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## woodtick greg

jfore, due you use mdf for stickers, I would'nt have thought it would be very stable and would swell or come apart if gotten wet? If mdf works for this it is cheap. but I always seem to have a board or two to use for stickers. but I am curious about the mdf use.


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## Jfore

Note: Sorry, I meant melamine! The coated MDF.

I normally use old tobacco sticks or stickers that we have cut ourselves and dried. I used MDF(melamine) on wood that will stain or special wood that I am not planning on taking much off of or displaying for selling. Sticker stain is a huge turn off for the paying customer. If you have enough weight, movement will not matter. if you have the coated edges against the wood it cannot absorb moisture and will not come apart.

I also use MDF(melamine) to build concrete forms for countertops and such and have no problem with moisture.


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## Tennessee Tim

I use 3/4" x1 1/2" KD fir as stickers. Always read the "white wood" didn't bleed/stain and the being dry asorbed the moisture where the air couldn't touch lumber. I've also read not to use "green/ fresh cut" stickers and from some planing in the past of other wood source I would occasionally notice the stickered spot would be thicker and wondered if that was due to using green stickers and drying different??

Jfore, doesn't the mdf stain?? it diffinently asorbs moisture. The plastic coating is only on two sides after being ripped. I not argueing it won't work, I just see a lot of MDF trims that move ecessively from moisture changes and have bleed from not properly finished.

I guess it may be a difference in opinions but I take my chances with a dry sticker. Jfore I did notice you said "cut AND dry" your own stickers also.

Have a Blessed day in Jesus's Love,
Tim


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## WillemJM

Jfore said:


> And keep an eye out for bugs! Don't want those in your attic....


I second that. Once dried English Walnut in my garage, Terminex came to do their normal thing and asked me to come and "listen" to my stickered Walnut. Sounded like a crackling corn-flakes party inside those boards and they ended up as firewood.:furious:


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## stevem2

Shop Dad said:


> Thanks again for the suggestions. I tried to get Anchorseal locally but their dealer locator was not cooperating so I ended up using some latex paint I had. These guys are bedded down for a while. Couple of years and they will start turning into some nice projects if all goes according to plan!


FWIW

You need more stickers or the slabs will warp. At least four total. Stickers should be placed at the farthest ends and then in the middle no more than 24" apart for best results. What will happen with the stickers as shown is the end will swoop, twist or sag. 
And two coats of latex paint to get a proper seal is better. Tends to seal what was missed with the first coat.


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## Shop Dad

OK, thinking I need to redo this. The cherry (closest) is only 4' long and I was aiming for 2' space, but sounds like I need to get the ends. I also used one of the cherry boards which has a MC over 20% and I think I need something dryer.

Found a helpful video here courtesy of Fine WoodWorking mag:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsArticle.aspx?id=29500

Maybe I'll just rip some whitewood boards rather than use the fresh cut cherry.


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## Jfore

Shop Dad, 

If it was mine, I would restack with 3-4x4's under each stack. Triple the stickers and use 3 rachet straps around each pile. And set one on top of the other. Height does not effect drying time. Weight helps. And use what everyone else mentioned on this thread. Oh, and bug spray.


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## stevem2

Dry is the key factor for stickers. If you use wet wood it will stain, mold, or harbor bugs


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## RedArrow

What kind of bugspray does a guy use? Spray directly on the wood?


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## WillemJM

Redarrowarcher said:


> What kind of bugspray does a guy use? Spray directly on the wood?


Bug spray won't do it. If you have bugs, they will only appear several months afterwards, appearing as tiny or bigger holes when they move somewhere else. If the tree spent a bit of time (weeks)outdoors after cut, it is likely infected, as this is nature's way of breaking down and returning it to the soil as nutrients.

Here is a linky that explains it better than I can. What you can do is seal them in plastic and fumigate inside the wrap, just before sealing, then leave for a few months.

http://biotechpestcontrols.com/html/wood_borers.html

You may be fine, but IMO placing them in your attic is not worth the risk.

With kiln drying this is taken care of.


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## Jfore

Have terminex treat your attic. Remember your dad telling you not to pile firewood against the house?


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## Shop Dad

Well this thread took a turn... The slabs were cut the day I picked them up, maybe the day before and it was a newly felled tree. Only sign of bugs I saw was a cricket, who promised to stay away after I waived my chainsaw at him. I'll try to re-stick them this weekend and set up a box fan with timer for daytime airflow.


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## woodtick greg

timbor or boracare are both good products and info can be found online, if there is no sign of insects I would'nt worry about it, after the wood is stickered watch for little piles of sawdust forming on the boards as that is an indicator of powder post beatles. if the wood was fresh cut and shows no sign of infestation such as pin holes or dust piles I would'nt worrie about it.


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## TexasTimbers

I use Boracare with Mold-Care. That link takes you to the place that has the best price I could find online. The first time I bought some I paid nearly twice that price. 

I was afraid it might diminish the red in my flame boxelder but it doesn't. It seems to actually stabilize the wood some. That species is notoriously prone to mildew & mold but the BC w/ MC stops it in its tracks. 






.


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## ETWW

I agree with placing 4x4's underneath the stack, adding additional stickers and using ratchet ties. That will help the wood dry properly and also decrease degrade from checks and warpage. If you put the end stickers very close to the slab ends, any checks will not go far as they tend to not go past the first sticker.

Cutting the wood the same day the trees were felled probably means no bugs and Powder Post Beetles are not likely to get into the wood while it's in your attic. However, if you decide to treat the lumber as a precaution, those borate products like Tim-Bor and Boracare are non-toxic.

A fan is a good idea if the wood is down to around 20% MC. Air movement will help expedite the drying time and at that stage, too-fast drying is not an issue.


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## TexasTimbers

I would not use Timbor on dry wood or wood that's been air drying for very long. Used on wood right off the saw Timbor will penetrate well but it can't penetrate dry wood very well. 

Boracare and sodium borate (Borax is one example) will both penetrate dry wood up to a couple of inches or more depending on the species. 

Timbor works effectively right off the saw and is a LOT less expensive than Boracare. Borax is even cheaper than Timbor, but you'd have to add your own mildewcide & fungicide to both of them. 





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## ETWW

Perhaps I misunderstood, not unusual, but I thought Gene Wengert wrote that the borate products were topical protection only and would prevent infestation but were not effective after it had occurred.


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## TexasTimbers

ETWW said:


> Perhaps I misunderstood, not unusual, but I thought Gene Wengert wrote that the borate products were topical protection only and would prevent infestation but were not effective after it had occurred.



I just reread the thread again to make sure I didn't miss something the first time, but I've done it before. However I didn't see any reference by Shop Dad that his boards are infested, did I miss something? 

But to address your question, I don't know if BC will kill any bugs already in the wood, but it will permeate the wood and cause it to be non-ingestible to the borer's/bugs/termites etc. It just make the wood a non-food source. I don't know all the scientific reasons why. Mammals need boron but insects can't handle it I guess. 

Some larvae can survive the intitial treatment but re-infestation will not occur because once the larvae hatch, they hatch within a non-food source. 

Are you sure Gene said borates would not be effective if infestation had occured? Because my understand as described above is that it immediately renders the wood non-food to the insects. I could be wrong - like you said - that wouldn't unusual for me either. 





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## Tennessee Tim

Texas,

My understanding is the borate only creates a "shell" or guard keeping bugs from entering in or out of subject wood . It does this but it doesn't penetrate to the center. On "green" wood the moisture content allows it to penetrate deeper than dry wood. 
Well that's all my knowledge I've obtained over the years from reading. It's still considered the better product that works best and safe........DON'T tell the gov't they'll ban it:thumbdown::thumbdown::yes:.

I also was wondering about the infestation that I hadn't read mentioned from owner. It is always a chance of this happening but the whole house?? just spray your wood. My understanding hardwood bugs or softwood bugs ( a few exceptions like termites which need water!!! source ) don't like the other wood type.

Decide what risk your willing to make/take and be happy, when it's all dry ..........BUILD with it AND show us some pictures:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Have a Blessed day in Jesus's love,
Tim


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## TexasTimbers

Bora-care claims that it will "penetrate wood thoroughly". I've never found any table showinf MC, species, depth of penetration etc. but whenever I've seen that claim it's always when they are referring to it being used as a termiticide. 

This leaves me to believe they're referring to standard 2 x 4 nominal wall studs. Of course they would be dry. Borate is a mineral as I'm sure you know and mixed with water they would not be able to penetrate very much. But when glycol is the carrier it drags the borates into the wood with it. 

They also claim the U.S. Department of Agriculture has tested it and verified their claims. I've not tried to find a summary or white paper published by the USDA on their findings but I'm sure it could be had for someone wanting to spend the time chasing it down. 

I've crosscut wood that I've treated before but have never taken note of the penetration. Looks like to me it's time for a real-world test. I'll try to do it later today but if I forget be a squeaky wheel.

I'll be sure and post pics here or start another thread. It won't take very long - BC claims the penetration is "rapid". 







.


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## RobWoodCutter

Reading from the container instructions and the pest control website, Timbor is more for preventive and is a surface treatment. Bugs eating into the wood through the treatment die, bugs eating out through it, die. Ones inside, just happily keep munching away. Timbor is a powder that you mix with water.

Bora-care is more for where you have an active infestation. It will penetrate completely into the wood and kill anything inside or outside that eats the wood. Bora-care is alot more expensive than Timbor. Bora-care is a thick liquid that you mix with water.

So if you don't see any signs of bugs try Timbor, if you do see signs of bugs then use Bora-care. Remember these are not nice chemicals, so when the wood is still wet, I would keep the kids/pets away from it. Even though the websites seem to imply they are "safe", once you buy them (I have) and you start reading the warning labels, you get two different impressions. Rob


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## ETWW

TexasTimbers said:


> Are you sure Gene said borates would not be effective if infestation had occured? Because my understand as described above is that it immediately renders the wood non-food to the insects. I could be wrong - like you said - that wouldn't unusual for me either.
> .


I did a search at Woodweb's Sawing and Drying Forum and found several statements from Gene that borates were topical treatments only. Here's one of them _"Spraying the wood with an insecticide, even Timbor, only protects the outer layer of the wood, so any insects already inside are not controlled."_

I have never used Boracare but my point was that if the wood is not presently infected, a topical treatment like Timbor will prevent infestation, even on dry wood. Penetration of the product would only be necessary to kill critters already residing in the wood.

However, you are an experienced sawmiller and I'm merely a hobbiest woodworker who occassionally saws and dries lumber. I certainly defer to your considerable experience on the matter.


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## TexasTimbers

ETWW said:


> . . . statement(s) from Gene . . . : _"Spraying the wood with an insecticide, even Timbor, only protects the outer layer of the wood, so any insects already inside are not controlled."_
> . . . .


Gene is a all-things-wood encyclopedia, and I'm aware that he's forgotten more than I know, still he isn't 100% correct on everything and I have my doubts about that statement. It's too vague, and I know that Timbor does penetrate wet wood to some degree.

I've been milling all morning and I'm fixing to spray the lumber. I don't have any Timbor but we'll see what this BC with MC does. 




.


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## Cutone

Jfore said:


> Put your self a couple of ratchet straps around them. May help on curling. Don't think there is enough weight there to prevent it. I would have used MDF as stickers. Even if your stickers are very dry they absorb the moisture from the extremely wet slabs and then return the moisture to the slabs and leave "sticker stain."
> 
> Nice slabs though.


You should always use a lighter sticker than the wood you dry. This will eliminate staining.


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## Brian T.

Not quite. The chemical quality of the stick is also important.
Lighter? Cholesterol free? Weighs less?
Come on, we gotta help the dude out.


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## Dominick

Robson Valley said:


> Not quite. The chemical quality of the stick is also important.
> Lighter? Cholesterol free? Weighs less?
> Come on, we gotta help the dude out.


Unless you can travel back in time to 9-25-2011 I don't see That happening? Laughing!!!!


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## Brian T.

Reads like "sticker shadow" is the least of his problems.
I don't have bug problems = COLD WINTER. Bring the wood in for 48 hrs and back into the cold. Over and over.
In the environment, the bugs can cope with a slide into winter. What they cannot do is cope with rapid changes from hot to cold, over and over and over again.
What you all need to do in warmer climates would drive me buggy.


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## Da Aardvark

If you have access to a kiln or can make a kiln, 130 deg for a day or so will kill off bugs. I wouldn't run those temps or put wood in a kiln until you get the overall moisture content down to 20-25% first by air drying, or you will see things warp/twist/cup/etc.


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## harrymontana

to put them on the floor like this is very very wrong. Especially because it is asfalt, this gets very hot and drying of the wood needs to be SLOW. Click here on the link how proper drying and acclimating of the wood should be done, if you do not dry according these rules, your slabs will be very like to showall kinds of deformations suchs as warping, cracking, cupping, twisting etc etc

in reply to your questions
1) whatever wax will do, this is just to close off the pories of the wood.
2) 2 feet is great, make sure that all stickers are in line vertically seen
3) whatever wood, doesn't matter, stickers MUST be equal in thick
4) if the bark does not influence the sticker height there is no need to cut it off




Shop Dad said:


> I hope I'm posting this to the right area. Please pardon if it should be in another section.
> 
> I've picked up some freshly cut slabs to start building a collection of lumber for projects down the road. This is black walnut and cherry (I'm told, but the sapwood looks very yellow). It's still very wet, especially with the rain we have been having in the East. I need to dry them and I could use some advice.
> 
> I plan to put them in the garage attic where they can sit inside and undisturbed (no AC). I know I need to seal the ends but I'm not sure what I need to use. I'll sticker them up in the garage attic. My understanding is they should dry at a rate of one year per inch. Would that hold for inside as well? I did pick up the inexpensive moisture meter at Lowes and they are hitting the 20s and 30s.
> 
> Sealing ends: Can I use paste wax? Latex paint? (I have these on hand.) or do I need something more specific like Anchorseal?
> 
> Stickering: every 2 feet? Does it matter what wood I use? Hardwood, plywood, MDF, pine? 3/4" enough?
> 
> As you can see these are fresh cut from the logs, mostly 5/4. Should I cut off the edge/bark before sticking?
> 
> Many, many thanks for any assistance. First time doing this and I'd like to get this as right as I can.


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## Shop Dad

Thanks Harry. Check out the rest of the thread. They have been stacked and stickered in my garage attic for about a year and a half now. This was just a photo of what I got when unloaded. I will try to get an updated picture since I didn't post in with the stickers and strapping I ended up with.


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## harrymontana

Shop Dad said:


> Thanks Harry. Check out the rest of the thread. They have been stacked and stickered in my garage attic for about a year and a half now. This was just a photo of what I got when unloaded. I will try to get an updated picture since I didn't post in with the stickers and strapping I ended up with.


Okay good, I hope your garage is somewhat ventilated otherwise you may get some mold stains if the wood is still wet (this is over 25% moisture content) below this 25% no mold.


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## wtshimmin

*Slab drying*

Sounds as if you're already aware of needing to seal coat your end grains. Don't use latex paint. It breaths. 

Looking at the photos of your cut stock, you already have a disadvantage with several of the pieces. Three of them already exhibit signs of checking. You've one slab with a clear heart line on it's surface and, if you look at the grain patterns and tightness you can see there are also a few pieces that are going to twist. 

With this wood, slowww drying is going to be your friend, so don't go stuffing them up in the rafters of your attic. The severe temp variations will cause nothing but wood misery in the drying process. 

When you stack your lumber, don't set your stack out in direct sunlight if at all possible. Try to keep your stickers 1.5" thick. airflow is what you want. Not enough, some wood will actually begin to midew or grow fungus. Do put a "roof" over it about a foot from the top layer. 

In half cut slabs, the closer you get to the heart of the block (log), in cutting out your slabs, the greater ratio of warpage you can expect in the drying process. It tends to minimize if you're cutting something like a 4" thick slab or a beam and the heart is near centered in depth. Even then, warping and flex isn't uncommon. 

As for your drying time rate, figure on approximately 1 year per inch of thickness on a hardwood in order for it to stabilize. So be patient.


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## Mike 0427

fromtheforty said:


> I've always heard that Latex paint does not make good end seal. I was told that latex paint "breathes" and because of that it does not work well for sealing. Maybe somebody can confirm or correct my understanding on this.
> 
> Geoff


I think this will depend on the type of latex paint. High gloss paints, such as trim paint, should do a good job. Flat wall paints will not because these paints are full of air voids and pores.


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