# Setting up new small garage shop, want table saw advice, dust collector, etc.



## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

Setting up my small garage as a weekend workshop, basically I have 1 30' wall to line with tools & want to upgrade my craftsman table saw. Right now I have a nice bosch sliding miter saw, bench dog router table w/ bosch router & some nicer small tools. 

I really want to upgrade my table saw to a contractor type under $600 (or $700 if it's really worth it) & I have a nice Forrest blade to go in it. I also would like a portable planer I can roll out on a stand. And I have a spot for a smaller 4" dust collector. 

Some of my projects have been cabinet doors, small furniture like coffee tables, book shelves, bathroom vanity using pretty hard woods like Jatoba & some Ipe.

any ideas are appreciated. I'd like to have a contractor type saw that is very portable & has some dust collection ability (if one exists).


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## rob.hough (Jul 27, 2007)

If I had that budget I'd probably consider the Ridgid TS3650. You can usually find them at around $500-$550. I was impressed with the fence but that could have just been the floor model I was looking at. With the money you're saving on it though, you could easily get an after market fence to put on there and resolve that issue. Nearly every review I've read on that tool has been positive.

The herc-u-lift should make the saw fairly mobile within your garage I would think, but if you need it to be more portable than that... You might consider something like the DeWalt.



Depending on your area... You could possibly find a really nice used saw in that price range as well. Have you been watching Craigslist? If not... You should be.


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

I had never thought about the Rigid because I look mostly on Amazon and they don't sell Rigid. but that saw looks very nice. And I have a 20% coupon for HD so I could pick one up for about $440. I'll definitely be looking at it this weekend.

I had been thinking about the Bosch 4100 because I like Bosch so much. but this Rigid gets even better reviews I think.

Any suggestions on other tools, planer, dust collector. My total budget will be about $1000 for everything. So if I save $200 by getting the Rigid saw I'll have over $500 left for a planer and small dust collector.

I'd thought about the Delta 1hp for less than $200 and a delta planer for around $300. Any thoughts??

thanks.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Around Christmas Lowes was selling a very nice Delta saw. You got to pick which fence you wanted. Biesemeyer was one. Grizzly has dust collectors in every price range. There is always good tools on Craigs list & E bay. I've got some great deals.


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

bigredc said:


> Around Christmas Lowes was selling a very nice Delta saw. You got to pick which fence you wanted. Biesemeyer was one. Grizzly has dust collectors in every price range. There is always good tools on Craigs list & E bay. I've got some great deals.


what size DC should I get? the guy at peachtree told me I wouldn't like the 1hp models. But I will only be running 1 tool at a time and I'll use blast gates. But I do want it to suck up all the table saw dust and have the option to use a top mount dc for the table saw as well. I will have 1 4" line running overhead, about 20' in length.


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

A person really shouln't go under 2 hp if they can help it and with that 6" piping would also be better. Stay away from 90's and use 2 45's and a small piece of straight pipe no t's.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The contractor type saw is pretty much being replaced in the marketplace with a newer design known as a hybrid, which is very similar except that it moves the motor inside the cabinet. That simple move offers many advantages and no downside unless you need frequent access to the motor...smaller footprint, more efficient power transfer from a shorter belt, better dust collection, and less hassle than an outboard motor. Your price range will get you into a very nice hybrid. Most major companies have excellent offerings - Jet, Delta, Craftsman, Steel City, Grizzly, General International, Sunhill, DeWalt, Shop Fox, Hitachi, and Woodtek that I know of, but more are being introduced regularly. They start around $400 on sale, with many good choices in the $600-$800 range. 

Most will run on a standard 110v circuit, but check with the manufacturer to be sure. The Steel City and Craftsman offer cabinet mounted trunnions for easy adjust and extra mass. The Jet, Grizzly, GI, Sunhill, DW, SF, Hitachi, and Woodtek all offer a cast blade shroud as part of the trunnion carriage. Most have excellent steel Biesemeyer type fences. All can be made mobile, and with good alignment and good blade selection all will perform well for a hobbyist. I'd pay particular attention to the Jet Proshop line, Craftsman, Steel City, GI, Woodtek, and Grizzly.

If it's a true "stow away" portable that you want, then a jobsite saw would be the type to get.

There are many good choices in portable planers. Some form of dust chute and the ability to lock the cutterhead to prevent snipe are the two most important features in a planer IMO. I'd stick with DeWalts (734 & 735), Delta (22-580 & TP400LS), Ridgid, or Makita.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

I have the Delta 12-1/2 inch thickness planer, that I picked up at Home Depot, on sale for less than $200, several years ago. It has proven to very acceptable for hobbyist use. My 4 inch dust collector I got from Busy Bee for just over $200, and it seems to able to handle the output from the planer without any problems. I did add a cyclone lid on top of a garbage can to catch the bulky shavings, as they were clogging the blower inlet on the DC. This seems to work quite well. cyclone lid was about $30.

Gerry


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## lance3951a (Jan 10, 2008)

area123 said:


> Setting up my small garage as a weekend workshop, basically I have 1 30' wall to line with tools & want to upgrade my craftsman table saw. Right now I have a nice bosch sliding miter saw, bench dog router table w/ bosch router & some nicer small tools.
> 
> I really want to upgrade my table saw to a contractor type under $600 (or $700 if it's really worth it) & I have a nice Forrest blade to go in it. I also would like a portable planer I can roll out on a stand. And I have a spot for a smaller 4" dust collector.
> 
> ...


I upgraded to a Ridgid table saw, the lift system is great for moving it around, it did take me some time to adjust it as I have a some what spongy floor so I put it on a platform. You shouldn't have that problem. Also I found that if you don't clean underneath for the tilt it won't go back to 0. The fence is pretty good for what I do but a Biesemeyer would really be great.


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

deleted


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

KnotScott, what is your opinion of the Ridgid TS3650? It looks like a very good saw to the novice like myself. Is it a hybrid saw or a contractor type? Pros for that saw include that I can get it for $440 right now.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I haven't bought a dc myself yet. Grizzly was recommended to me, so I got their cataloged. They have models from $175 and up. I've been dragging my shop vac around. I was wondering how much power would need to pull thru 4". The 2 hp advice sounds good to me. On another thread it was recommended to get a air filter. I was in a guys basement / shop the other day. He had a filter running. I couldn't believe how clean his shop was. There's a layer of dust on everything in my basement / shop. Something else I didn't think of. Keep $100 aside for a good blade. You can't imagine the difference till you see it. Or you could just get it down the road. I just wanted to let you know what they cost.


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

A air cleaner plus a HP dust collector is a good set up. There is a little controversy about having it on while your cutting. The theory is it pulls the dust past your nose but I where a mask now when I'm cutting so no problem. You can build your own air filter if you want to save a few bucks but that's another story.
Here's mine.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

area123 said:


> KnotScott, what is your opinion of the Ridgid TS3650? It looks like a very good saw to the novice like myself. Is it a hybrid saw or a contractor type? Pros for that saw include that I can get it for $440 right now.


The 3650 is a contractor saw with an outboard motor...the basic guts are essentially the same as the early Emerson made Craftsman saws. $440 is a good price, and makes it more attractive to me than regular retail. The Herculift system is good, it's got cast wings, and is very capable. I'm not a fan of the fence, but many seem to like it as is. It's about 135# lighter than some of the heftier hybrids, which is a fair amount of mass to give up and a big percentage difference (~45%), which equates to a notable difference in stability. 

It really boils down to what level you want to buy and what the price difference means to you. If you get a good blade or two, get it aligned, the 3650 should cut well, but IMO none of the contractor saws offers what the better hybrids do....BTDT and was surprised by the difference.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

daryl, building a dc is a great idea. What kind of fan do you have inside. Would a box fan work. I think I may build one this weekend.


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## aclose (Nov 11, 2007)

heh, bigred, you beat me to my question!

there's an article in a shop mag i picked up last month (don't remember the title off-hand) regarding building your own dust collector. 
the author used a squirrel cage motor that looked like it came from an HVAC unit. actually, he mentioned that some HVAC shops may have old motor/blower units from older furnaces that they'd be willing to sell fairly cheap. 
i'll try to remember to post the name of the magazine and article when i get home...


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Squirrel fans are a favorite choice but you could use a box fan but a furnace fan moves more air faster. You need at least 2 (3) is better filters. The one facing the room is the courses one and the one closes to the fan is the finner one. 
Here are a few 

http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot763.shtml
http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot522.shtml
http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot634.shtml


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Now there are some practical and inexpensive dust collection units.

How did you stumble on to Shop Shots Daryl?

Gerry:thumbsup:


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Thanks daryl. I'm on a 
mission. There is an HVAC supply store near me. I'm going to stop by and price a blower. I just got done pricing dc hose. Woodcraft gets $20 for 10 ' of 2 1/2" hose and $25 for 10' of 4". Grizzly gets $9 for 10' of 2" and $11 for 10' of 2 1/2" and $14 for 10' of 4". I priced pool hose at HD it's about the same as Woodcraft. I happen to have a Woodcraft 15 min. from me, so even though they are expensive, it's convenient. Do we just use common sence to size the hose. Like 4" for a planer, 2" for a miter saw. Did you check out the wiring diagram for the one 3 speed blower. That's a Rub Goldberg if I ever saw one.


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

knotscott said:


> It really boils down to what level you want to buy and what the price difference means to you. If you get a good blade or two, get it aligned, the 3650 should cut well, but IMO none of the contractor saws offers what the better hybrids do....BTDT and was surprised by the difference.


I really don't want the motor hanging out, I didn't realize it did. I might just go into the store and check some saws out but HD and Lowes don't really have many of the models you mention. I guess I'll look around. 

Seems like most of the models you listed were in the 800+ range, what is the best value in your opinion? I'm looking to spend around $600 or less and didn't see any of your favorites in that range.

And I already have a Forrest WW 2 blade that I love on my cheapo craftsman. That is the only reason that saw lasted me as long as it did. It will rip 5/4 Jatoba and anything else as long as it's not too long for me handle w/ that light of a table. 


thanks a lot for all the help.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

How's $630 shipped to your door for a Jet ProShop 708480K JPS-30 sound? You'd be giving up cast iron wings to get it closer to $600, but those can be added easily anytime if you choose, plus you'd be gaining a top notch steel fence, one-piece cast swing arm carriage, great DC, a very efficient drive system, and a really nice paddle switch. That's alot of saw for that price IMHO.

Tom Hintz's review of the ProShop w/CI wings

Jet demo video


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

knotscott said:


> How's $630 shipped to your door for a Jet ProShop 708480K JPS-30 sound?


Funny you should mention this now. I was just looking on Amazon at that Jet saw and getting ready to post here to see what people thought of it. There are no reviews for the 708480K but there is 1 great review for the 708481K ( I think it is the 50" version). I am looking on their site and can't see what the difference is between the 480K and the 482K except there's about $120 difference on Amazon.com & they have the description wrong there. 

I'm seriously considering this saw now. Just want to go to HD and see what they have, so maybe I can use my 20% coupon from there.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

area123 said:


> Funny you should mention this now. I was just looking on Amazon at that Jet saw and getting ready to post here to see what people thought of it. There are no reviews for the 708480K but there is 1 great review for the 708481K ( I think it is the 50" version). I am looking on their site and can't see what the difference is between the 480K and the 482K except there's about $120 difference on Amazon.com & they have the description wrong there.
> 
> I'm seriously considering this saw now. Just want to go to HD and see what they have, so maybe I can use my 20% coupon from there.


The ProShop series is all the same saw with different wings, longer fence, and/or a few other doo-dads, so many of the favorable comments apply from one model to the next. 

That 20% coupon could come in handy for a planer...:thumbsup:


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

knotscott said:


> The ProShop series is all the same saw with different wings, longer fence, and/or a few other doo-dads, so many of the favorable comments apply from one model to the next.
> 
> That 20% coupon could come in handy for a planer...:thumbsup:


Ok, now which one to buy first. I need a planer too but think I would get more use from a table saw. But I have a table saw that works & no planer at all. If I spend $600 on a saw now I'll probably wait a few months for the planer & my coupon expires this weekend. What to do.... I think I'll go to HD and see what they have.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

You could buy which ever one is more expensive to get the most savings out of your coupon. You save money with the planer, because you can buy rough wood. I know what your going thru. That's a chunk of money. I always go back and forth.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

area123 said:


> Ok, now which one to buy first. I need a planer too but think I would get more use from a table saw. But I have a table saw that works & no planer at all. If I spend $600 on a saw now I'll probably wait a few months for the planer & my coupon expires this weekend. What to do.... I think I'll go to HD and see what they have.


Yeah, most folks get more use from their saw, and it also tends to be a more personal tool than a planer....so, get a saw you really like. :yes:


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hey bigredc
If you use 21/2 inch hosing it ties in nicely to a Shop-Vac. Just thought I'd mention here that I bought a 21/2 inch clear vinyl dust collection system from Busy Bee for about $75, on sale. It comes with nine sections of pipe, and pretty near everything you need to couple them up. They also carry hose in 21/2 and 4 inch sizes, as well as all kinds of dust hoods. www.busybeetools.com Worth a look, and you can order from the internet and they will ship at pretty reasonable rates.

Gerry


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

That sound's like a done deal. I just spent the last 1/2 hour or more sweeping and blowing things off. And that's dragging my shop vac and rigging it up to whatever I can. Back to the saw, Area 123. I was just at Home depot today, they are doing a 15% off if you spend up to 400 and 20% off over that. Any thing in the store. They are giving away a Dewalt sander if you buy a jig saw.


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Gerry KIERNAN said:


> Now there are some practical and inexpensive dust collection units.
> 
> How did you stumble on to Shop Shots Daryl?
> 
> Gerry:thumbsup:


I found that site quite a while back when it was around 200 shots and I see they got past 800 now. Funny thing is I'm yet to post anything:laughing: 
If memory serves ( now that's a scary thought) I stumbled across it looking for dust collection idea's and now theres quite a few. I have always found a pictures worth a thousand words and in fact I quite often save pics and build from that so that site is a real blessing.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

bigredc said:


> Thanks daryl. I'm on a
> mission. There is an HVAC supply store near me. I'm going to stop by and price a blower. I just got done pricing dc hose. Woodcraft gets $20 for 10 ' of 2 1/2" hose and $25 for 10' of 4". Grizzly gets $9 for 10' of 2" and $11 for 10' of 2 1/2" and $14 for 10' of 4". I priced pool hose at HD it's about the same as Woodcraft. I happen to have a Woodcraft 15 min. from me, so even though they are expensive, it's convenient. Do we just use common sence to size the hose. Like 4" for a planer, 2" for a miter saw. Did you check out the wiring diagram for the one 3 speed blower. That's a Rub Goldberg if I ever saw one.


*Sizing your hose depends on the collection device you have chosen. If its a shop vac then 2-1/2 is the way to go I would imagine but I do not use a shop vac for my bigger tools, just my portables.I don't see how a shop vac could run 4" pipe but the guys here on this site that are doing this would be far better off answering this question.*
*Again it all boils down to just how much dust your wanting to get rid of and of course budget.*
*In my situation I had virtually no budget but had 10 lengths of 4" metal pipe and a very large box of fittings. I manages to scrape some funds together and carefully looked around at prices for the system I could put in .*
*Some other things came into play here like lac of power in the shop, we are most likely going to be selling so I did not want to spend to much money or time into this but wanted to get the shop cleaner so I could spend more time woodworking and less time sweeping:laughing: *
*So what I ended up doing was *
*I got a 1-1/HP dust collector, put it all on 4" piping as close to the tool I could get, added a extra 2-1/2" hose to the top pickup on my miter saw, added a 3" reduced down to 2-1/2"top pick up to my new table saw. I also used lots of blast gates.*
*I built my own air cleaner a few years ago which I still use today and bought a good dual filter dust mask to keep the super fine dust out of my lungs.*
*The system has been up and running since new years and is working pretty well, not perfect by any means but I have not picked up the broom for a week now:laughing: . I am satisfied for now how its working and myself would consider this a minimum.*
*Hpefully I haven't bored you to death on this one.*


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Being a construction electrician, I have access to lots of the thin 4" PVC. Verizon drops it of in 20' length's for me to put in while I'm doing the electric service. There is always 50'-100' left over. I've had as much as 200'. They don't want it back. So It would be nice to be able to use that. I misunderstood what Gerry's suggestion was. I just want cheap 2 1/2" hose to use for now till I get a good system. I don't want to do my whole system in it. Before I do anything I'm going to educate myself on exactly what I want and need, and if it's is expandable. So I picked up a book. The Internet is great but there's nothing like a good book to learn from. It's funny this in my idea of a good book. I couldn't care less about novels and all that. I like your table saw set up.


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

You have gotten a extremely good book on this. I bought the same one quite a while back and got tons of good info out of it. Good choice.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hey bigredc, you lucky stiff 
Hang on to that 4 inch pvc. That is a good size for a fairly serious dust collection system. If I ever get the digital know how I will show you something I came up with to collect the shavings from my thickness planer. I think it is picking up close to 100%.

Gerry


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Gerry KIERNAN said:


> Hey bigredc, you lucky stiff
> Hang on to that 4 inch pvc. That is a good size for a fairly serious dust collection system. If I ever get the digital know how I will show you something I came up with to collect the shavings from my thickness planer. I think it is picking up close to 100%.
> 
> Gerry


I'd like to see that...please share! :thumbsup:


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Gerry KIERNAN said:


> Hey bigredc, you lucky stiff
> Hang on to that 4 inch pvc. That is a good size for a fairly serious dust collection system. If I ever get the digital know how I will show you something I came up with to collect the shavings from my thickness planer. I think it is picking up close to 100%.
> 
> Gerry


You mean your going to keep us in the dark:laughing:


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

I went ahead and bought the Rigid 13" planer from HD. It had good reviews and I got to test it out and seems like a very solid machine. Has a lifetime warranty too. It produced a glass smooth finish on my Jatoba sample w/ little effort. The only downside is it's only 1 speed. It also has descent dust collection on it, came with a spare set of blades, dust hood, stand & tool kit for about $295.

Any opinions on this planer?


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

I think you got a lot of good replies here, but I would agree those that suggest you look on Craigslist or other such lists. You may have to wait a few months to find one, but there are deals on great cabinet saws. Consider looking on sites like OWWM or others for sales of tools. I see unisaws and the like that are often $600 and sometimes much less. I have a unisaw and a powermatic 66 with a sliding table. Both are very good saws and I do believe that having a good saw is one of the most important things in the shop. As to your question about dust collection, I would look at the CFM that is required. I agree that larger systems are very nice, and if you are going to run permanent ducting to all the machines, and use blast gates, you probably need more than the 1 or even 1 1/2" collector. The problem is that by having a longer run, it just can't carry the particles in suspension for long distances with a smaller motor. I suggest that 1 hp or 1 1/2 hp probably shouldn't have a run longer than 10 feet to 20 foot max for the 1 1/2. (By the way, most table saws are NOT very good with dust collectors. There is usually too much leakage around the motor, the elevation adjustments, etc. It is probably true here that newer machines are better, but I wouldn't make that a reason not to buy an older saw) If you can't get a bigger dust collection system, move it around your shop. 
good luck


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I was looking on Craig"s list last knight just to pass the time and look for deals. I came across 2 free window A/C units. I emailed them. They got back and said I could come over tonight. By the time I got hold of him tonight they were already gone. Between the 2 of them I was sure I could have made a dust filter. O well. That kind of stuff comes around a lot though. Good luck with the planer. I think that was the way to go. Now save some more and keep an eye out for a better saw.


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Contact a few of your local hvac contractors, it would not surprise me if they would give you one


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

Good idea.


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## area123 (Jan 9, 2008)

Paul K said:


> I think you got a lot of good replies here, but I would agree those that suggest you look on Craigslist or other such lists. You may have to wait a few months to find one, but there are deals on great cabinet saws. Consider looking on sites like OWWM or others for sales of tools. I see unisaws and the like that are often $600 and sometimes much less. I have a unisaw and a powermatic 66 with a sliding table. Both are very good saws and I do believe that having a good saw is one of the most important things in the shop. As to your question about dust collection, I would look at the CFM that is required. I agree that larger systems are very nice, and if you are going to run permanent ducting to all the machines, and use blast gates, you probably need more than the 1 or even 1 1/2" collector. The problem is that by having a longer run, it just can't carry the particles in suspension for long distances with a smaller motor. I suggest that 1 hp or 1 1/2 hp probably shouldn't have a run longer than 10 feet to 20 foot max for the 1 1/2. (By the way, most table saws are NOT very good with dust collectors. There is usually too much leakage around the motor, the elevation adjustments, etc. It is probably true here that newer machines are better, but I wouldn't make that a reason not to buy an older saw) If you can't get a bigger dust collection system, move it around your shop.
> good luck


 
I ended up buying the JDS 1.5hp dust collector, will be delivered in about 2 weeks from amazon, cost about 300. I bought some good quality flexible duct from peachtree along w/ blast gates and various connectors for my router, etc. I'll only need about 15' along 1 wall for about 4 tools so I should be ok. So now all I need is that table saw, might have to wait till after the tax refund. I'm pretty set on the JET proshop saw.

btw-I still love that Rigid planer. Would have never thought of buying Rigid tools until I read about them here on the forums. 

Thanks for all the help.


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I threw this together last night. I found it in that book. That book has lot's of good idea's, but according to it, I should be installing 6" metal tubing. PVC creates static. It calls for 4" to sanders. That seem's like overkill. That's one thing my shop vac handles fine. The main thing is to put the things the make the most dust closer to the vac.


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

PVC does create static charge. As the dust particles go thru the piping, they are rubbing against the pvc and build up a pretty good charge. It is probably not a great idea to use PVC. Tales of explosions (remember sawdust does explode or burn well if in the right amount of air and density). However i don't know first hand of explosions. I have metal ducting in my shop, 6" with a 3 hp Oneida cyclone. But with the smaller 1 1/2 Delta i use in the other building, i just use 5 inch hose. (think it is 5? but might be 4") If you use the PVC, just make sure that there are nice "sweeps" for angles not sharp bends. And i suspect that it woudl be a good idea to run a copper wire around the tubing and ground it somewhere. (not inside the tubing) i know that i build up a lot of static on my drum sander and have about shocked the bejesus out of myself leaning over and accidentally touching the hose. I have since learned to ground out the hose. By the way, when they mention sanders, i am sure they don't mean 4" for small sanders. They mean 4" for drum sanders or small wide belt sanders. Actually these type of machines really need MAXIMUM dust collection, so they need at least 4". For your hand sander, or even your stationary belt/disc sanders, 2 1/2" is more than enough. 
best
paul


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

The book I have say's run bare copper wire inside and outside of PVC pipe. My saw is a 70 year old Delta. I completely rebuilt it. works beautiful, but it was shocking the heckk out of me. I had it mounted on a wood base with only the belt connecting it to the motor. I figured it was static. I ran a ground down to the motor housing. I spent about an hour on e bay looking at used dust collectors tonight. There are like 5 or more pages of them.


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Your copper wire starts at your machine and wrapes around the pipe and connects to the collector. Every so often you use a low profile head bolt that the head is in the pipe and the wire wrapes around the bolt and then place a nut and washer.
5 inch is a good choice but since you have lots of 4 inch you could put a 5 inch main with 4" drops. It improves the system a litlle and apparently worth it. If you can keep a straight run into the collector at least 3 feet this helps a lot.
Min 4 " for larger sanders and 2- 1/2" for small portable stuff is a good choice.:thumbsup:


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## bigredc (Sep 1, 2007)

I found this on another thread.








From WOODWEB
WOODWEB DISCLAIMS any and all RESPONSIBILITY and LIABILITY for the accuracy and application of the information below. Readers agree to evaluate the significance and limitations of the information provided, and accept full responsibility for the application of this information. Read More ... 
?
*PVC piping -- OK for dust collection? *

*Why PVC piping is not safe for your dust collection system. March 19, 2001*


*Question* 
I hear you're not supposed to use plastic pipe for dust collection. Why? 
*Forum Responses* 
The main reason why PVC pipe is not recommended is the buildup of static electricity and the high risk of explosion. 

Plastic pipe systems are not designed for dust collection use. A necessary diversity of fittings to meet design requirement does not exist. Also, plastic pipe elbows have a very short radius and plastic tee fittings are improper for dust removal. It is these types of problems that lead to an inefficient dust collection system. 
With a metal dust collection piping system, static electrically won't develop. Elbows and other various fittings are properly designed for conveying dust. The diversity of fittings and accessories will enable you to meet design requirements. 

I have found no problems using schedule 40 PVC. You do need to run a ground wire to each machine. As far as elbows are concerned, you can use electrical sweeps, which ease the bends. Also, don't use tees, use Y fittings. 

I used plastic in my first shop. The static electric buildup was amazing. I tried to control it with ground wires, but still had problems. Don't take a chance on a dust explosion--use metal. Commercial heating contractors often stock the spiral duct and fittings since they are used in big buildings for air handling. 

The National Fire Protection Agency recommends non-combustible ducting when conveying combustible material. As we know, wood dust is combustible, as well as PVC pipe, never mind the static buildup, which is a source of ignition. 
When we create a duct system, the interior should be as obstruction-free as possible. A copper wire will snag chips and curls. In addition, many extraction systems are abrasive, such as the conveying of hardwood chips. This material will wear the copper wire. 

When we had a PVC system in our shop, I had a chance to discuss the plastic pipe/static situation with an electrical engineer well-versed in industrial issues. According to him, there is virtually no way to protect a plastic based system. The static builds on the surfaces (inside or out) of the pipe and nothing but a continuous metallic ground (more like a coating than a wire) inside the pipe would mitigate the static buildup. He convinced me to get rid of the plastic and redo our system with metal pipe and fittings. 
While removing the plastic (prior to a metal install) on a Monday after a non-working weekend, I noticed that the pipe still held a charge from the previous Friday's work. As a precaution I put on light duty rubber gloves. I got zapped right through the gloves by the static discharge from a length of pipe connected to the planer, which had been working hard the previous week. A few minutes later I picked up a piece of pipe that had also been connected to the planer and watched as a large spark arced from the pipe to my chest. These shocks were not life-threatening, as the discharge was mostly voltage with little amperage. That said, they made me painfully aware of the potential for static build-up. You may get away with a plastic system for years, but some day when you are collecting large quantities of fine dust through your new wide-belt sander, disaster may strike. I'd never consider using anything but metal pipe for dust collection.


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## daryl in nanoose (Feb 18, 2007)

this is a very good read on Static Electricity and PVC
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html


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