# Early Christmas from Vermont . . .



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

A freight truck backed up to my dock this morning. Nothing new. Figured it was something I ordered for something. But he hops out and says he has a pallet of wood from Vermont. I looked at him like he had two heads . . . . :huh:

I weren't expecting a pallet of wood from anyone, 'specially Vermont. I don't have any contracts with anyone in Vermont just a couple niche customers. They wouldn't be sending _me_ wood. I send _them_ wood. That's the way it works. And besides, *I* ship pallets of wood, I don't *receive* pallets of wood. But there weren't no gettin around it, this was a pallet of wood someone had sent me . . . . 









So the wood has all these prices on them like I would pay for this junk. I mean just look at it - it has these weird defects all over it. Funky looking lines that shimmer and shine like a hologram or something. Chatoyance and all that. Way cool, I mean, way nasty and ugly looking grain patterns and stuff. Who'd pay for this? 








Then I remembered. I had agreed to trade some Flame Boxelder with a guy way up nawth some many moons ago, but he said he had decent stuff, but he sends this crap. Heck I forgot about it and burnt all his wood for heat already. I mean we hit 34° last week and what was I supposed to do, freeze? 

So I'm taking a poll. Should I hold up my end of the bargain and send him any wood for this nasty junk he sent with all the wonderful, I mean horrible defects, or should I do the right thing and burn this stuff in the fireplace too?


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

I got your back on this one TT. I wouldn't burn it if I was you. You don't want to even acknowledge that you got it. Send it my way and I'll burn it for you and get rid of the evidence.
Mike Hawkins


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## Chad (May 10, 2009)

I have a nice fireplace also, running low on wood!


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## toolman Steve (Jun 11, 2009)

In FL we just use it for camping out by the lake,:boat: its still to hot inside cools down to 78 at night nice for sitting out as long as you have a good hose with you . we won't have rain for a few months.:no::furious:


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## slatron25 (Dec 18, 2007)

You just can't trust people anymore.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

TT; I can get rid of that crap for ya, having new house bilt in NC and we can run it to the dump with all the other debris and crap and nobody wood notice the added stuff. Be glad to help out a fellow woodworker.
:yes:


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

If your just gonna burn it, I'll just trade ya some hickory firewood for it. Hickory burns so much better than that ole maple. And yours is in such long, thin pieces. Mine is already sized for the fireplace  .


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*TT It must be nice...*

To have friends....... bill


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

woodnthings said:


> *TT It must be nice...*
> 
> 
> To have friends....... bill


The guy I traded with is a member here. He don't stick his head in very often but I figure he'll have to before long just to see if I've bragged on . . . er, I mean complained about the poor quality of the lumber I received. He'll prolly be expecting my good stuff in return, on top of it all. :icon_rolleyes: 

And I wonder why I don't have many friends. :lol:


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## JP Sinclair (Nov 13, 2006)

Guilty party checking in :laughing:

Glad you liked it Kevin - I keep one of your samples of box elder in my samples and every woodworking customer that comes in to the shop tries to buy it. I love it when one of my loggers comes in with one of those crappy logs with the funny ripples all through the surface. Makes my heart go pitty pat cause I know what's waiting inside---Make sure to post a pic when you (or the Mrs) decides on what that low grade junk from Vermont is going to turn into!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I was starting to think maybe you forgot I owe you a pallet of wood! :no:

I'll email you a copy of the BOL with the PRO number when I schedule the shipment. Got any particular delivery date in mind other than yesterday? If not I'll schedule it tomorrow since they are coming to pick up another order anyway. 

Mrs. TT was "oohing" and "awwwing" over it last night out here in the shop. We were sipping a little wine, enjoying the fragrance of mesquite and our homemade brine rolling out of the water smoker, watching the clouds lazily wafting up and out the north shop doors, and laying out our oldest son's birthday present; his first jewelry box to be made with beautiful Vermont Tiger Maple. 

I'll be sure to post a pic. It's gonna be her first finish job. Gonna let her to the sanding too. :yes: Hey, if you're gonna learn woodworking ya got to know how to finish. Charles Neil says a Master woodworker will decide what his finish will be on a project before he ever cuts the first piece of wood. Well, he says it better than that but you get the gist. 

All in all it was a perfect night. :thumbsup:


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## CharlesNeil (Jun 26, 2007)

Kev, you bet your bottom side , we can make that stuff dance...thats looking pretty nice, may look like garbage to you, to me , well lets just say..ill buy it , and promise the next recipent of it will be handing out some serious $ for what comes out of it , that depth of chatoyance , IF handled correctly will be simply georgeous , and either some nice matching or a little dye/finishing magic and man oh man ..seriously send me a pm, and ill take a load off yer hands.... we are building a corner cabinet on line using material similar , in our show , but ya got to be careful with that kind of chatoyance, or you can also get a disaster....

Charles Neil
www.charlesneilwoodworking.com


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Charles, this bit of wood is all already alloted for projects, but I know *where you can get some*!

Neil, how about I do a step-by-step build in the project showcase, and you can school me and the missus on the finishing process? All of the members with an interest in the thread would benefit from your experience, especially me! 

Daren recently posted a picture of a Tiger Maple project you built and that thing shimmered like shiny minnows in a clear stream. So you on board for this?


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## JP Sinclair (Nov 13, 2006)

The tiger will really jump when you get a nice finish, I'm not sure what you like to use but we have had nice success with a 50-50 mix of varnish and turpentine for the first hand rubbed coat. It really brings curl up nice - that's what we used on this flame birch tabletop -


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## CharlesNeil (Jun 26, 2007)

sure glad to do it...lesson one: if its tiger maple, use a little dye on the wood and lay it out like you think it should go , meaning if its sides stand it up , just as close as you can to how it will be presented ..and get back and make sure the figure is appearing in all views...then flip it all over and move it around to make sure the figure is showing the best from what you percieve as the view , here is a HUGE mistake folks make when using figured wood with alot of chaytoyance , it can flip flop , one way you look at it its beautiful , move to another view and the figure will diminish or simply be gone , often high chatoyance woods wont allow a book match , if you do again , one side the figure is great the other is gone, these woods require what is called a slip match ,this is where yo must keep the same "face" in view...so instead of booking it , you slide one off the top of the other ( same face), like dealing cards...( unless ya cheat and deal from the bottom)..

www.Charlesneilwoodworking.com


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## CharlesNeil (Jun 26, 2007)

JP, that works , but the turpentine and varnish takes along time to dry , at least for me, and for me as well BLO is out of the question , doesnt dry and I have gotten to be a big fan of the waterbased finishes , so i have to have grain popper thats compatable ..i either use General Finish seal a cell , I like the warmth of the slight amber it has , and it dries well ( overnight), then i still seal it with a 1lb coat of seal coat shellac or 1 coat of 1lb cut blond shellac, BUT i have found if you take a 1lb cut of blond shellac , which still has a slight amber hue ( seal coat is perfect , thinned 50% with alcohol) , it does the same job and dries fast, and is compatable with all top coats...the seal coat also has about a 3 year shelf life , the shellac will not show the pop as well as oil when it dries , but as soon as a topcoat is applied WOW

Charles
www.charlesneilwoodworking.com


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## toolman Steve (Jun 11, 2009)

Iwould only burn what I could not turn, make into pens, or turn into any other project. But sawdust just smolders.


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## JP Sinclair (Nov 13, 2006)

Cool-I appreciate you sharing that Charles - I'm not much of a good final finish guy and will definetely try that. I might take some cutoffs and do some experiments before I try an actual good piece of tiger. I've been stunned at how good some guys can raise tiger or flame figure, definetely a skill


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Below is a Charles Neil Keeping Chest built with Tiger Maple, and finished with . . . . . well, I have no idea what it's finished with but it looks killer to my eye. That's why he's going to supervise the finishing of our small keeping box project.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

Whats funny about that is the truck driver must think its crazy to ship a couple pieces of wood LTL from VE. Probably pulled away thinking, what a bunch of Dumb @$$'s.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Nate1778 said:


> Whats funny about that is the truck driver must think its crazy to ship a couple pieces of wood LTL from VE. Probably pulled away thinking, what a bunch of Dumb @$$'s.


What's even funnier is when you consider that the guy was an intelligent, decent, hardworking family guy who had sense enough to be thankful we ship pallets of wood, or even pallets of pallets if we want, because what we ship helps feed his family. Instead of thinking we are a bunch of donkey butts, he probably figures we're a couple of decent hardworking guys just like him who are getting to enjoy a little fruit of our labor. 

I can ship a pallet to VT for less than $150. I can get 832 BF on a standard pallet if I ship square cants (and I have). That works out to 18¢ a BF. That's cheap. You could probably even do that math. But even if I ship only 50BF, that's less than $3 BF for wood that costs two, three, even four times more for some of the killer stuff he sent. 

So while you might get your charlies by inferring we are a bunch of "dumb @$$'s", maybe next time give a driver you even met the benefit of the doubt instead of accusing him of having such an arrogant, juvenile attitude toward life, and also let us dummies be dummies while we trade wood we would pay full price for, but figured a way to get it for way less than if we bought it locally . . . . if it was even available. But it isn't. JP can;t get Flame Boxelder like mine up there, and I can't get Tiger Maple here. So we figured a way to get it for as little as 18¢ a BF. What a bunch of dumb @$$'s we are, eh. 

Oh, and by the way Einstein, Vermont's state abbreviation is "VT", not "VE". :whistling2:


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## CharlesNeil (Jun 26, 2007)

kev, that chest is finished in a dye we had made, but i now am working the recipe out in GF waterbased dye, and finished in either waterlox or Arm R seal..dont remember which...if you watched my show kev, its the same dye we were doing the Chatoyance thing with...its called new england maple , I designed it to look like the old naturally aged maple the shaker furniture turned to , it has a lot of gold tone as well as a hint of orange ...like the leaves in the fall, it is the number 1 choice will all of our clients..by 25 to 1 ...it also works well on walnut to kill the purple tone steamed walnut gets, and it also helps to bring walnut together into a uniform color, as well it does right nice on cherry , its one of those colors thet just seems to "do it all".... here is a link to my blog where you can see some other finishing "beginings" on a clothes press we are making, the top left tombstone door panel has this dye on it , not alot to tell at athe moment, but this piece is being finished as we speak, so by first of the week we will have the finished product up , you can scroll down thru the blog and see some other photos of it http://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*TT I'm stuck on the math here*

You said:
I can ship a pallet to VT for less than $150. I can get 832 BF on a standard pallet if I ship square cants (and I have). That works out to 18¢ a BF. That's cheap. You could probably even do that math. But even if I ship only 50BF, that's less than $3 BF for wood that costs two, three, even four times more for some of the killer stuff he sent.

OK, a pallet at $150. 832 BF in cants, = .18 a BF
If I divide 832 by 150 I get 5.56 a BF. Is this right?
What about 1" planks? What size is the pallet? L x W?
How high can they be stacked?
Is there a L x W x H minimum like on air flight baggage, then there is a surcharge? Sorry I'm not very knowledgeable on this whole concept.:blink:
I'm asking because I'd like to order some wood at some point and would like to know what lengths make the most sense. Or should I just order what I want and let UPS charge me whatever? Do you use UPS? If not which freight Co.?
Thanks, that is some some awesome looking wood. I thought splated maple was cool, and it is, but that tiger maple makes me drool saw dust! bill
BTW, I don't think Nate meant any disrespect to you or to the freight driver(s). It kind struck me in a similiar way as in "Why are these guys shipping this "firewood" around the country?" Those people without a knowledge of "firewood" like we here have might be scratchin' their heads,was all I think he meant. You sounded pretty "hacked off" , but I think it was an innocent remark made in jest. JMO.


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## mdlbldrmatt135 (Dec 6, 2006)

Divide the shipping cost by the total BF...... to get the cost per BF not the other way around like you did.

they usually go by pallet size..... so 40" x 48" or 42" x 42" I believe are the 2 accepted standards


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Charles, I like that aged look too and it worked for the chest just right. On the keeping box however I'd like to stay as close to natural as possible. The wood we selected for it has plenty of color to bring out, maybe with a light coat of die as you said or maybe just the finish. I hope to get started on it this week, if so I'll start a separate thread. 


Matt, standard pallet size with my shipper is 48" x 48" x 52".


48 x 48 x 52/144=832BF 

woodnthings, Matt is correct you have your math backward. To find out how much money (how many units) is being used to send a certain number (how many units) of BF, you have to "assign" an equal number of the fixed dollars (units) to each unit being shipped. By your formula shipping a full pallet would cost me $4625.92 If my math was that bad, I'd have been flipping burgers a long time ago, and gotten fired for getting the orders wrong half the time. 

As to your other comments no I wasn't "hacked off" it's just the way Nate & I communicate. We don't fool around when we jerk each other's chain. :no:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Well at least I was dividing...DUH!*

AS with any problem where there 2 ways to do it, I pick the wrong way!:laughing: 
I see you have Nate as a friend too. Apparently what ever you're doin' is workin' for Ya. We need to talk, I need some friends too.....:blink: bill


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

No harm, no foul. I only wish a truck driver would show up to my shop scratching his head, wandering why I was dancing around a pile of wood like that. Its some beautiful stuff, but yes my post was made in jest.


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## Anna (Nov 16, 2009)

*Anna*

I'm new here, so it took me a little while to realize you guys were joking about the wood. I'm thinking--this stuff is beautiful, he can send it to me anytime. And, I think it was you TT, that guessed 80-100 rings in my tree table. I counted 80 plus. I have another cookie from the same tree that has a texas longhorn in the middle. Looks like maybe a branch had come off the trunk early on.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Hey Anna,

Thanks, the Tiger Maple is gorgeous to my eye too. On the rings in your cookie yes it was me. I counted what I thought was about 20 rings and then guestimated from that, that it had to be ~ 80 & 100. 

I'd sure like to see that longhorn cookie!


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## Anna (Nov 16, 2009)

*longhorn cookie*

TT, I've tried several times to reply with a picture, but kept getting an error from the website. I'm trying again--hope it works this time. 
Anna


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Anna let me know what issues you're having and I'll walk you through it. Here's the nutshell:


Ensure the image is on your computer (not like photobucker) and you know where it is.
Resize and compress the image so it isn't larger than what the forum allows (discussed below).
When you reply to the post, make sure you are in "Advanced" mode not the "Quick Reply" box. 
Scroll down until you see "Manage Attachments". Ths will also tell you what the size limits are for each file type (.jpg etc.)
After you upload the image, click the paper clip icon up there with all the other tools and insert the image. 

Need more help holler we can do it on the phone if need be.


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## Anna (Nov 16, 2009)

*Finally--the longhorn cookie*

























For some reason, these pictures were a lot larger than the tree table pictures. My son showed me how to compress them so now they attach. Imagine that! Thanks for your help TT. Anna


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

That looks like a longhorn alright. That would probably fetch a handsome price if you get it in front of the right UT alum. 

Many of them have much more money than brains when it comes to collecting anything longhorn-ish. Especially if it's one of a kind so they can show it to their buddies and brag about it over Lone Star beer and barbecue.


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