# Stain and clearcoat basics



## seeeker (Mar 3, 2011)

I am going insane. I have bi-fold, slotted soft wood closet doors I am trying to simply stain and clear coat from an unfinished state. I have applied three coats of stain, and they look fine.

I (very) lightly sanded them, wiped clean, and began applying a coat of Minwax polyurethane. After a few minutes it began drying and has resulted in a horrible look I can't even describe. See the pics linked below. It has dried to an opaque, murky, filmy finish. 

I don't think it was from the sanding, because I did not sand the slats, only the "frame" part. 

I am of course a newbie, have no idea what the problem is. I can't even find a website with good, basic instructions on staining/clear coat that could help me troubleshoot.

I have posted before and after pics to show what I'm talking about:

http://www.sequentz.com/doors/before.jpg
http://www.sequentz.com/doors/after.jpg

Any guidance would be appreciated!


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

You didn't mention what type of stain and poly you are trying to use. :smile:


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## seeeker (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks for your reply.

The stain is Minwax Wood Finish, "Golden Oak". (3 coats)
The clearcoat is Minwax "Fast-Drying", "Superior Durability" Clear Satin Polyurethane. (1 coat resulting in the problem).

I have used these products extensively on other trimwork around the house and not had this problem at all.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Sounds like they are both oil based?

If so... what is the environment you are applying poly in.

Temp, humidity, air movement? :smile:


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## seeeker (Mar 3, 2011)

Yes they are both oil-based. I applied the clearcoat outdoors, it's slightly breezy, dry air, 50-60 degrees F.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Breeze... is your enemy.

Also, was this a new can, or one that has been exposed to the elements allready, loosing it's solvents? 

I would say the breeze is your problem. :smile:


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## seeeker (Mar 3, 2011)

Wow that could be it. It is a new can.

Did you see the pictures? Now that the surface is damaged can I sand it and re-apply? Or does it need to be sanded down more extensively, starting over from scratch?

Thanks very much for your replies!


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Damn, That thing looks like it's been outside for 150 yrs. :huh:

You will need to sand back to stain, and start poly over. :smile:

You also don't want to leave your can open, pour out what you need and reseal soon as possible.


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## seeeker (Mar 3, 2011)

I know, it's bad. I don't what the f is going on.

I just did a test piece indoors with no breeze and same thing.

From the pics, they weren't outside long at all, 10 minutes tops. After starting the coat, by the time I got to the other end of the door, the top had dried in that way.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Sumthins up, When I used to brush oil poly, yrs. ago, it would take 8hrs. plus, just to keep a fly from gettin stuck in it.

Other than some sort of contamination on the doors, not sure what it would be, I'm leaning toward, "bad product."

Wish I could be more help... Never had that problem. :smile:


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## cowboy dan (Apr 11, 2010)

I (very) lightly sanded them said:


> http://www.sequentz.com/doors/before.jpg[/URL]
> http://www.sequentz.com/doors/after.jpg
> 
> Any guidance would be appreciated!


 
you don't sand stain. all your prep work is done before you stain. stain and let cure for 8hrs. then clearcoat. dust is your enemy for sure. i have never sanded a stain and i get good finishes

it looks like either there is a coat of old finish that was still on there, or you fudged on applying the stain/clear. strip it and try again. chemical strippers and a putty knife will help you out fast.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Could also be stearates from the sandpaper interfering with your poly...I agree with the recommendation to sand down, re-stain and then re-finish.


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## WoodStain (Mar 4, 2011)

*WoodStain*

Looks like a bad reaction with old finish


www.woodstain.com


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## RestorationWorkshop (Mar 6, 2011)

FYI, that reaction is called "blushing" it is caused by two reasons, either high humidity when applying the finish or oil under the finish. From what you wrote it sounds like the a combo of both is what you had. Secondly poly finish is not the best choice nor are oil based stains IMO, I woudl strip it off again and use an alcohol based stain like Behlen or M L Campbells wood song and as far as finish if you don't have access to an HVLP or at least gravity fed spray gun I would use a brushable laq or at least a shellac. Poly is just a pita to work with and not that great of a finish, when I think of poly applications I think of exterior doors, bars tops and the such. 


Have fun. 


Dave


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I've never seen blush that looks like that before. 
What it does look like is someone took a cheap stripper on a cold day and tried to strip it and that is the best that it would do. 
I'm sure this is not what happened, but that is what it looks like.


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## RestorationWorkshop (Mar 6, 2011)

It's called "blushing", not "blush" and that is what it is. I'll assume the OP was smart enough not to try finishing over wood before stripping off the old finish and cleaning with solvent before re-staining and finishing. The only difference between cheap stripper and good stripper is that is takes more of the cheap stuff but either way if he cleaned it off afterward it will not make a difference how the finish looks. I've been refinishing furniture professionally in Washington DC for over twenty years with Georgetown Refinishing and I do strip in cold weather and never had it cause blushing.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

It might be too late for suggestions, but I think three applications of stain is too much, and likely did not dry. Sanding stain is a no no IMO. Adding the polyurethane reacted with the uncured stain, and likely picked up some residue from sanding.

I would strip to bare wood, and start over. Try to stain in one application, and wipe off excess, let dry. Then apply topcoat.












 







.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

RestorationWorkshop said:


> It's called "blushing", not "blush" and that is what it is. I'll assume the OP was smart enough not to try finishing over wood before stripping off the old finish and cleaning with solvent before re-staining and finishing. The only difference between cheap stripper and good stripper is that is takes more of the cheap stuff but either way if he cleaned it off afterward it will not make a difference how the finish looks. I've been refinishing furniture professionally in Washington DC for over twenty years with Georgetown Refinishing and I do strip in cold weather and never had it cause blushing.


'Blush' is a noun, 'blushing' is a verb. Stripping does not cause blushing and stripper does not blush. In cold weather, stripper is not very effective. It will still work, but not well. Can't believe in 25 years you haven't even got that basic concept. You seem to be getting pretty combative in defending your knowledge of what the OP did and did not do. Psychic hotline?
BTW, just because someone does something for 25 years does not mean they know what they are doing. Just means they did it for 25 years.


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## RestorationWorkshop (Mar 6, 2011)

Tony im sorry if I've offended you and your sensitivities, your the one telling me I don't know what I am talking about,


What do you do for a living? I finish furniture so do yourself a favor and get off your horse. I'm not impressed.


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## RestorationWorkshop (Mar 6, 2011)

Furthermore where did I imply that the blushing was occurring due to the stripper? You might want to reread my OP. We strip furniture twelve months out of the year, we dont slow down work in the prep room when it gets cold so i dont see your point about workng with stripper in cold weather, besides again your assuming he tried to finish over the old finish. Also in respect to you English lesson, No one calls in blush. We don't look at a table and say "that finish has blush on it" we say that the finish is blushing or that it has blushed, not that I really care enough to straighten you out but I must trying to help you not sound like a goof ball if you happen to talk shop with some actual finishers and try sounding like you know what your talking about. 


Maybe im off to the right foot but i didn't pick apart your post, I was trying yo give some advice and you want to tell me that it's not what it is, white hazing in a finish is blushing. Then you start yapping on my experience ? Again how long have you been professionally restoring finishes? Or is this the treatment new members get here from the so called senior crew? 
Just because you hang out on wood forums and rack up 1,700 posts doesn't mean that you know what your talking about.
If you have credentials im all ears I've already shared mine.


Georgetownrefinishing.com
And 
Schoenbauer.com


My name is David Clair


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

RestorationWorkshop said:


> ....If you have credentials im all ears I've already shared mine. [/QUOTE
> 
> My name, address, tel no. etc is on my business website.
> 
> I'm also a Certified Protective Coatings Inspector and contract with major oil companies off shore. All of this can be verified.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*RESTO... Who pissed in your cornflakes?*

:smile:


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## weavilswoodshop (Sep 3, 2010)

blush...blushing..you guys are making me blush.. that door does look bad.. sanding and starting over might fix it but I'll be doggone if I'd spend the time to sand slatted doors down to bare wood.. A quick trip to Lowes for a new door or a can of paint for the old door would be my choice. As to staining and finishing, I will add that if I need to stain I will use an oil base stain (one rubbed in coat and no sanding . I don't have any real credentials so my opinion might get me in trouble here but I really think that might be the problem especially if you did not allow enough drying time. Dust and moisture can really mess up a finish. I'm also very comfortable with a wipe on oil based poly finish( I never use full strength ).. Well thats all I have to say about that.. Hope I didn't offend anybody


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Not an expert by any stretch but can't think back to when we ever put 3 coats of stain on anything?My "hillbilly" sense is telling me its now oil rotten(think trying to weld an aluminum M/C case thats been filled with oil for 40 years),which is presenting adhesion/reaction issues.And weavil is probably right about replacement......if its a cheap door.

I hang out on a hotrodding site......mainly for the exterior paint side of it.Theres some true industry leaders(owners of some rather large,famous co's)that hang out there.What's interesting is how often they disagree on paint issues?These guys........in the nicest of ways......end up agreeing to disagree.The point is however,that in paint/finish world theres more than one way to skin that cat.Welding world is also filled with nuances like that......where just a slightly different technique can offset the criteria enough that what works for one may have negative results for the next guy?

So hang in there resto.......Georgetown?I did a preservation townhouse there way back in '75.Made good bank on that one.BW


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## Rick C. (Dec 17, 2008)

In your first pic you have blotching more than anything. You stated it was soft wood and often that's what it does. Using a sealer and sanding before staining would have helped but I don't mind the look because it's wood. 
As for your choice of finish there is no problem. I've used minwax golden oak under oil based poly many times with fantastic success. Also, some expert stated poly is the wrong thing to use, I disagree, the same expert stated poly was for exterior use,it is not. IMO this is beyond a simple fix and may do the same thing again, get a new door and start over. Let the stain soak in for 5-10 min. the wipe off the surface completely let dry overnight before applying poly. Just the way I do it!!


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

OK, it looks to me, if I am seeing the pictures correctly, that the doors already had finish on them? Then you sanded and applied 3 coats of stain? Then you applied a clear coat over that? I would say the finish is wrinkling due to an adhesion failure. Just a wild guess though and I am definitely not blushing.  If my guess is correct then you will need to strip the doors (I would go all the way to bare wood but you could just sand them back to the original finish)

Did you apply the original finish or were you trying to darken up something that already had a finish on it?


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## Watsin38 (Mar 10, 2011)

mdntrdr said:


> You didn't mention what type of stain and poly you are trying to use. :smile:


What color you have applied sounds good for sure. What is the problem. If you are feeling any confusion still . You may get assisted by some professional.


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