# "Bucket" Size for a Super Dust Deputy?



## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Hi all, I did search on this topic and didn't find anything that quite answered my question, so I'm kicking off a new thread.

Situation
I've got a 1hp Delta AP400 dust collector upgraded with a Wynn Environmental canister filter. It's a mobile tool, but I have it parked in one corner of my basement shop and hooked up to the 4" trunk of my dust collection. It's all 4" duct - actually the medium-gauge HVAC pipe. My basement shop is 26'x13' and it's only me using one machine at a time. The total run of duct is about 20' with three gated branches - tablesaw, router table, and "other." "Other" is closest to the collector and can be hooked up to my dirtiest machines (13" planer, 6" jointer, or 14" bandsaw) using a Rocker "Dust Rite" nozzle. Over this sort of run, this collector is pretty under-powered, I generally shut and lock all the other blast gates to get acceptable suction on one branch.

I also have an ABS chip separator lid (from Woodcraft) on a 30 gallon galvanized can next to the collector. It does a good job of separating out the chips and sawdust, but I also know that this robs me of a lot of suction. A previous poster said that that my separator was like putting an extra 20-40 ft of pipe in the system. I do see a dramatic difference when I bypass it; however, I don't want to rapidly clog up my filter and collection bag so I want to keep some sort of chip separator in the system.

I'm not in a position to invest in a more powerful collector (and all new 6" ducting) at this time, and I know that the next biggest issue after base CFMs is the chip separator.

I've been looking putting something more efficient in there and I settled on the Super Dust Deputy ($10 off at Woodcraft right now). Although I've got the 4" SDD, I'm hoping to keep using it after I upgrade to a tricked-out HFT collector (or something better from my the local used market).

I did not buy the canister setup that the SDD maker sells. My local Woodcraft didn't have it anyway. Online, I see a lot of folks using buckets and other containers for collection.

So here's the question (finally).
If I put that 4" SDD on the 30 gallon metal can (modifying the original metal lid), am I going to suffer the same drop in suction that I experience with the Woodriver separator? Does receptacle size make a big difference with a Dust Deputy? I know that if I pick something a lot smaller, it will fill up rapidly. Is there a sweet spot where I can balance the suction and the collection on a 1hp 4" system? If so, what size is that - 20 gallons? 10 gallons? I've seen some folks going with 50 gallon barrels.

I have not yet experimented with the configuration. I'm holding-off cutting into the lid of the 30-gallon can or my spare 50 gallon roughneck trashcan. I don't want to ruin them unnecessarily - especially if I need to go with a smaller to improve CFMs.

Thoughts or recommendations? 

Note: I was at Rockler on Saturday and the local guy was singing the praises of the big-arse $1300 integrated Laguna collector-separator with a levering canister. I noticed that it was only 950 CFM and took up a huge amount of space. That's only 200 CFM more than my dinky Delta AP400 - at 13x the price... Why invest in something so expensive if you still have to roll it around to your different machines and you have only marginal improvement?


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Here's a photo of the main duct. My mobile tablesaw sits with the end of its long wing up against the "bay" on the right side (under the saws and miterbox) I had everything pulled apart to make some repairs to the basement wall for this photo. There's a long wavy discontinuity in the foundation pour that tends to leak and weep in a new spot each time a make a repair.

The duct at the lower-left has a blast gate on it where it branches up to my Router Table (out of view to the right). The duct near center of the picture on the floor services my tablesaw cabinet. - though not very well. The run pictured here is about 10' long, so I remain confused as to why I get such poor performance. All ductwork seams and junctions are sealed with aluminium ducting tape - including the long seams on the 4" runs.That long flexible hose disappearing up to the ceiling has a dust rite connector on it. I hook it up to the Bandsaw, Jointer, or Planer as needed. The 2.5" black hose you see near the center and in teh foreground is my overhead collector for the unisaw, and I hook it up to my TS Wing Router fence when I'm making cope and stick cuts for windows and cabinets. It actually works fairly well.










I'm considering mounting the dust collector to the wall to raise it up above the Dust Deputy - which I hope to use as a replacement for the 30 gallon chip-separator lid.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

I did find this article over at Lumberjocks for someone with a similar situation and similar equipment. If anyone wants to add on, I appreciate any and all feedback.









Super Dust Deputy Add on for 4" DC systems


Oneida - Super Dust Deputy (Rating: 5) While researching this product, I noticed that there was not a review on LJ's for this specific model of cyclone. I have a smaller ClearVue Mini and absolutely love it, however there were few choices on the market for cyclones specifically made for the...




www.lumberjocks.com





The comment by "Kelly" is the most relevant to my situation.


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## Bernie_72 (Aug 9, 2020)

I have a very similar setup to your's. I have a 1HP collector with an add-on canister filter and the 4" super dust deputy. I use this for my smaller tools (miter saw, drill press & one router table). I have about a 20' run of 4" thin wall PVC pipe. I use automated iVac blast gates with tool power sensors and a controller to automatically open the gate for whatever tool I'm using and to turn on the dust collector. 

I ended up purchasing the 4" super dust deputy kit off of amazon last year. It came with a 15 gallon drum which I've used up to this point. I've been doing some research lately trying to find a drum that isn't so tall so it will fit within the cabinet design I'm putting together. I've probably looked at many of the same posts that you've seen of people attaching it to 55 gallon drums or large garbage cans. I have yet to find one that shows effective CFM before and after that change.

I did find a larger drum option that Oneida has on their site. It's for a 35 gallon steel drum that's made specifically for the 4" super dust deputy. I was actually considering purchasing this unit because the height fit my cabinet design but when i saw the shipping fee was close to $100 I decided not to purchase it. Since Oneida sells a 35 gallon drum I'd assume you'd be safe to use up to that volume. If you want to go that large there are lots of 33 to 35 gallon plastic/rubber garbage cans that should work well for you.

I'll end up purchasing a smaller rubber/plastic container to use with the dust deputy. I plan on sticking at or under 20 gallons when I make this change but I also don't have any of my large chip producing tools hooked up to this setup like you do. I'm leaning towards something like this 20 gallon drum but I haven't made my final decision yet. I currently have this dust collector setup taken apart as I am insulating and prepping the walls for my cabinet installs. This week I plan on running power and starting to mount the PVC pipe. I think I'll have the dust collector up and running again in a few weeks so I can give you some better feedback then. If you setup something before then please let me know what you end up using and how it performs.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

RepairmanJack said:


> I have not yet experimented with the configuration. I'm holding-off cutting into the lid of the 30-gallon can or my spare 50 gallon roughneck trashcan.


The Roughneck is plastic? I don't know, but seems likely the vacuum would collapse it.

With your existing system is there a good seal between the lid and can? Maybe some weather stripping etc if it leaks.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Bob Bengal said:


> The Roughneck is plastic? I don't know, but seems likely the vacuum would collapse it.
> 
> With your existing system is there a good seal between the lid and can? Maybe some weather stripping etc if it leaks.


Sorry, I created some confusion there. I have multiple trashcans. The one pictured is a Behrens 30 gal Galvanized Metal can. I also have a 50 gal rubbermaid roughneck, and a sealed 30 gallon translucent barrel as options.

I'm most seriously considering the barrel as my new dust receptacle. I'll be able to gauge how full it is due to the semi-translucent white material, but sealing the top will be a challenge as I'll need to cut it open.


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## StevenWoodward (Aug 14, 2020)

I went with the 
Oneida SEK350601 - 35 Gal. Steel Drum Kit for Super Dust Deputy (5" & 6") 
and attached the 5 inch Super Dust Deputy

I don't put a bag or anything in the drum, just let it fill up, then empty into a brown leaf bag for compost pickup.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Bernie_72 said:


> I have a very similar setup to your's. I have a 1HP collector with an add-on canister filter and the 4" super dust deputy. I use this for my smaller tools (miter saw, drill press & one router table). I have about a 20' run of 4" thin wall PVC pipe. I use automated iVac blast gates with tool power sensors and a controller to automatically open the gate for whatever tool I'm using and to turn on the dust collector.
> 
> I think I'll have the dust collector up and running again in a few weeks so I can give you some better feedback then. If you setup something before then please let me know what you end up using and how it performs.


In poking around the Oneida Air site, I found an FAQ where they claim that the size of the receptacle makes no difference. At this point I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. Everything I've watched and read really leads me to believe that the problem is always going to come back down to the weak AP400. The HVAC flanges being pointed in the wrong direction is also costing me, but my previous PVC system performed even worse. 

I'm still keeping an eye out for a better collector, but I'd like to optimize as much of the system as I can until I find/can afford something better. I'll post back on the outcome.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Update. Just wanted to mention that I went to browse for collectors and separator receptacles at my local Woodcraft. I mentioned my ongoing question about further loss of CFMs in going with a 30-50 receptacle. One of the guys there (whom I talk most times I come in, but still don't know his name), suggested that I might consider returning my $160 SDD instead of investing another $160 in the matching Dust Deputy receptacle. I've not even opened the bag of bolts and seal from the SDD so it's definitely an option to return it. Carl (I'm gonna call him "Carl" because he looks like a "Carl") suggested that I consider the $250 JET separator and bucket combo that's currently on sale for $50.00 off, so I decided to give it a try.

This is the new unit I picked up:








Jet - Cyclonic Separator Kit


The JET® Cyclonic Chip Separator with Bin maximizes dust collection efficiency by maintaining the air flow of a dust collection system by deflecting chips and large debris inline freeing up dust collection filters to trap fine particles.




www.woodcraft.com





I do like the height of it especially as it's pretty close inline to my main collection trunk shown in one of the earlier photos.

I will say though... The performance isn't noticeably better than with the 30-gallon separator lid. Seems about the same, but it does really highlight just how weak-sauce my AP400 1HP 650CFM collector actually is.

So, this AM, rather than continuing to work with an under-powered unit, I decided to bite the bullet and pick up a $200 HFT unit.

Unfortunately, they are _very_ out of stock. Like there _might_ be 2 over in Illinois - a 1 hour drive away) and they won't sell their floor model. Those units in Illinois may have already been sold via a "pre-sale." They tell me that there are only 9 in their main central warehouse that supplies like 1,100 stores so I'm looking at backorders of about a month or more. Ugh.

Living in Missouri means that Grizzly tools is reasonably close (shipping-wise) but they are also out of stock in anything reasonable that is capable of more than 1000 CFMs - or shipping is prohibitively expensive.

Rockler has a Grizzly equivalent 1250 CFM unit for $550 with a $50 gift card, but it just feels stupid to spend an extra $300 more for the same unit as the Grizzly.

This is becoming a serious bottleneck in my work... so

I just ordered a General International 2HP unit (open box, new) from Amazon.com. $379. new, delivered, with 1550 CFMs (optimum). This should be a significant improvement - maybe more than my 27ga ducts can handle...

Right now, I plan to move the lower-power AP400 unit to the north end of my shop and use it on either my big compound miter saw, or my drill press and mortising machines - assuming the General International is decent.

GI has a really good reputation for power tools, but the dust collector prices are suspiciously reasonable.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Just a quick update. The General International DC arrived today. Model 10-110 M1. It looks different from the advertised pictures and it was a bit of a PITA to assemble. Build quality is lower than I expected for a normally $500 DC. Some bolt holes didn't line up well, and I couldn't even install one bolt because of the poor way the bridge part is designed. Annoyingly it was advertised as 2 HP, 220v with 6" to 4" metal "Y". It came with a 15 Amp 110v motor and a plastic Y. This one is also physically identical to their 10-105 1.5 HP unit, but had a bigger motor. Not sure what's up there. 

The most serious issue is that it seems to have defective wiring inside the motor. The thing shorts out immediately any time I plug it into a circuit and switch it on. I've determined that the power switch is fine (bypassed temporarily), but the motor itself is definitely shorting out. Checking with an Ohm meter shows infinite continuity from hot to neutral... which should not be the case... It's not surprising it shorts out if all it does is complete the circuit when switched on. The way this thing is assembled prevents me from performing any more in-depth checks. I don't have the electrical skills to determine if the capacitor is the problem, but it also showed infinite ohms across the two terminals.

I've reached out to the manufacturer for solutions and they (in)conveniently close their Ohio offices at 4 PM eastern. Despite all the other discussions about this being a good brand, I feel like I wasted my money. I expect that they'll ask me to disassemble and rebox this thing - costing me a couple hours of labor at least and wasting an entire week of my shop time.

Unless they suprising me with stellar customer service, I'm not going to recommend anything from this company to anyone.

Also... the Jet Cylclonic Bullet lets about 50% of the dust and chips past the can. Guess I'll be returning that too.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Just to close this topic out, here's what has happened.

I returned the General International - repacked and shipped it out Saturday AM. This AM, GI _finally_ responded to my messages via Amazon, but it's too late now.

I bought a Powermatic PM1300TX DC from Woodcraft. It was the only one left on the floor and set me back about $700. It didn't have the 2 micron filter but I can purchase that separately if I need it. I'll need to hold off any more machine purchases for a while. Although it's rather large and a bit awkward, the PM does feature a 6" inlet split into two 4" so I have some room to upgrade to a large trunk line in the future. if/when I'm ready to upgrade the collection trunk, I'll probably invest in the Super Dust Deputy XL.

I hooked up the Jet Bullet collector and now it performs _much_ better at separating out dust and chips. There's hardly anything in the powermatic's lower bag. Perhaps it's just a poor performer on low CFM system. 
I'm going to keep the Jet unit as part of my 4" system. I do really like the can that comes with it.

I'm also moving the 650 CFM Delta DC to the opposite side of my shop for use as a dedicated collector for my Mitresaw and/or Lathe.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Also.. to give General Industrial a little slack. I was contacted by someone from the company today offering to send me out a replacement motor for my DC. It wouldn't have changed my frustration about the up-front experience or that they didn't respond to my first two attempts to contact them, but knowing that they would have shipped me the replacement motor instead of telling me to return it might have made me hesitate to drop another $700 on the Powermatic PM1300. The only other feedback on this machine was from someone who bought one that arrived without its top parts and he had to return it before they'd make it right.

That said, the powermatic is definitely a much higher quality machine, even if the CFM rating is 250 lower.


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