# Powermatic PM1900



## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

So I admit that I am new to woodworking and know little to nothing about dust collection (basically all I know is that you want to have it!) I'm certain a few of you will chuckle at this message and that is all right! I am just getting my shop set up and am slowly buying very high quality items--Festool, SawStop, etc. I generally research things and go for the top of the line.

I haven't learned anything about dust collection yet but someone today offerred me a brand new Powermatic PM1900 for $500 (I think they retail around $1300). I think this is a good deal, but is that dust collector in the elite class with the other tools I am buying? My approach is that I only want to buy things once so I don't want to "upgrade" later. Is this a machine that will serve me well for years to come or is it one that after I use it and learn about collectors I'll be wishing I had paid a little more and gotten the best?

Are there dust collectors out there much better than that one for a really high class home shop? If there are better machines out there I'll wait and buy one when the time comes but if this is a cream of the crop type of machine I'll gladly grab it for a discounted price!


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

SMLWinds said:


> So I admit that I am new to woodworking and know little to nothing about dust collection (basically all I know is that you want to have it!) I'm certain a few of you will chuckle at this message and that is all right! I am just getting my shop set up and am slowly buying very high quality items--Festool, SawStop, etc. I generally research things and go for the top of the line.
> 
> ahh, the target powermatic customer.
> 
> ...


hope the above helps. it is, IMHO, wrong thinking to equate pricey machinery with machinery that will produce better WW results all on their own. cabinet saws, cyclones, 8-12" jointers and 15" stationary planers are nice, but they are only as good as the woodworker using them. there are brands out there that like to present themselves as "high quality" machines, but they won't do anything that a comparable grizzly (for example) can't do. they'll just, IMHO, lighten your wallet faster.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*dust collectors are pretty basic*

There are many fine points to get top performance but they are basically all the same.

There's a motor attached to a blower or impeller.
The suction created varies in CFM from 400 to 1700 CFM and up depending.... on motor HP and impeller size.

They all have a filter to clean the expelled air which goes back into the shop. The filters are of varying efficiency depending.... on the closeness of the weave of the fabric OR the type and number of pleats in the cannister. As the filter get clogged with dust to becomes a "better" filter but loses performance.

This is why a "pre-collector " separator is good. Some are free standing others are a cyclone which is built under the blower assembly. Cyclone are more efficient, but more expensive.

As you add separators which are "stages" in the line of filtration you increase performance, BUT it requires more CFMs to move more air due to the restrictive nature of more plumbing elbows and units. More CFMs require better impellers and more HP motors.

Having said all that. ... you will achieve the best dust collection by minimizing the length of flex hose, and the use of shop vacs off the smaller ports on your sanders, miter saws, bandsaws, radial saws, and over arm DC on the table saw. You can't get top of the line efficiency with just one type of DC, the free standing or overhead linr type of system. You still need point of generation collection with a high velocity shop vac.
Large dust hoods behind the miter saws and radial saws will get a lot of the dust spit off behind the blade, but not all of it.

This is all based on just my experience, nothing scientific here.

Finally, you will need also an overhead air filtration system to catch the airborne particles which get missed by the main DC. Here's some of the things I have done in my own shop:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/dust-collection-woodnthings-shop-part-1-a-20273/


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

SML

Well since you opened the can of worms. I like quality tools too. And while I think the Sawstop is a well made tool. To me the break system is tantamount to a boat anchor. I have never touched the saw blade in 45 years. It's a big PITB. You will also have to get another cartridge when using a dado blade. 8" only. Also the saw will keep you from cutting OFF your finger but it's still going to get cut. It's not perfect. I have a Delta Unisaw. If I were to do it over again. I would buy the Powermatic. But nothing on my saw has ever broke down in 30 years so I'm going to keep it. 

Fe$tool is also a great product. Some of their tools are best of all. Some are same as other tools. Consider these aspects that make their product so expensive without adding to the quality of the tool.

Poor exchange rate. $1 to $1.27. Spending $500 costs you $125. 

They pay higher taxes which gets handed down to we the consumer. 

They have a tight distribution policy. Doesn't mater which dealer you buy them from. You pay the same price. Dealers can't discount the tools to attract sales and so on. 

Extras and add on's are very expensive. Pad for your sander is $45. PC and DeWalt are $15. And if you want the one for waxing it's over $75. This is just one example.

For the most part it's still a plastic tool and a few have funny handles. But did I mention they are great tools?

DC

You have to decide if you are going to turn it on and off, run it with one tool at a time or turn it on when you start the day and let it run till your finished. 

Suction how ever you measure it is king. Second would be noise level. As far as filters and bags go. Best off if you use a separator and a good can filter. Although when a bag is coated with fine dust it does filter down to the lower numbers. Something the micron counters don't mention.

You will spend a great deal of time getting some tools to remove the dust and others are a snap. My guess is your going to either get an education before you buy or get one in the process of the install and usage. Both will reveal the overlooked costs when you got started.

One thing is for sure. Bet we all don't see you starting any, " I can't get my saw to cut straight threads".

Al B Thayer


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

Guys-Thanks for the responses! I always have trouble concisely explaining myself on here. I always want to impress upon folks that I have the means to buy nicer tools but at the same time, nothing aggravates me more than wasting money unnecessarily! I guess a better way to state my approach would be that I don't mind spending whatever amount of money I need to as long as I am getting something that is functionally better than the next cheaper model.

As for the Sawstop...that is another thing I should always clarify. I understand there is absolutely not substitute for safe practices but the bottom line is that in the end accidents can always happen to anyone, even the safest woodworkers. So, I plan to use all tools like they have no safety features but buy the ones with the best safety features just in case something crazy happens just once. After all, I am a hand surgeon, so I have earned the money to buy the Sawstop by fixing folks who didn't have one!

What I was trying to get at with this dust collector is where or not this is a deal I would never regret taking or if I should just wait. I didn't want to know if it was the most expensive, but whether or not it would leave me later wanting for one better or if I could get a different model to do the same job around the same price. In short, I was just wondering if this was a "can't miss" deal.

After reading your responses, I think I will sit tight and wait until the time comes to set up my dust collection. It seems there is a lot to think about and while this Powermatic may be a great tool, it could end up not being the best for me and my shop. I think I would rather wait and possibly have to pay a few hundred bucks more but know that I am getting what is the best fit for my specific shop. 

Let me know if anyone disagrees with that approach. I think I could probably get the collector for $400 so it is getting to the price where it isn't much more expensive than a big shop vac!


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## SMLWinds (Jan 25, 2012)

As I research this I start to reconsider and maybe take the deal--it is cheap enough that even if I use this one a specific portion of my shop it doesn't seem like a bad investment.

What do you mean make sure it comes with the cannisters and that the OEM bags aren't very good? 

I have attached a picture of the DC from the owner (not sure if this is the one he has or the one he is selling...sounds like he has 2 of them). Here is what he said:

"Model PM1900, 3 HP Dust Collector with Canister and Filter, All brand new in boxes, never used. This is also 3 phase. To buy it from the supplier now today's price is 1,599.00 Three phase. It can be converted to 110 by switching the motor on it or using a transformer ( which is what we used in our shop on a similiar one) this one is brand new, never been used"

Can someone with more electrical knowledge than myself tell me how difficult it would be to use this 3 phase unit in a standard shop without 3 phase current? I haven't set up my electrical yet, but I wasn't planning on putting 3 phase for the amount of work I'll be doing. I don't think I would ever recoup my costs in electrical savings.

Thanks!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it's the 3 phase that's the issue*

You can not use it on your single phase shop current without a phase converter. OR you could change out the motor with a single phase 3 HP motor as shown here:

http://www.grizzly.com/search/search?q=3%20HP%20motor


Both options are about possible.$325.00 or so for a 3 HP motor. and $190.00 to $242.00 for a static phase converter.

The phase converter will allow you to use other 3 phase motors which are considerably cheaper to purchase since 3 phase industrial equipment goes for much less at auctions.

If you want "all new" then probably changing the motor is best, then sell the new 3 phase motor as "unused".


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