# panthermill 2 imitator...advice and your help



## kpantherpro (Oct 3, 2011)

hey just wanted to run this by you all and make sure I wasn't being petty... first for those who have my mills or have considerd them, you know I take alot of pride in them, they are built with pride and quality, and because I love what I do... I am definately not here for the money. You also know that I won't trash talk another mill, and they do say imitation is a form of flattery, but his design is dangerous. all my designs are tested thouroughly before I release them for safety, accuracy, and durability, and ease of use,usually 6-12 months, he's had maybe 2-3 months 
I don't mind competition either, but one of my customers has taken one of my designs, and basically butchered it to a single clamp design for which it was never intended, it would definitely need some major modification to do this. His design changes are dangerous and will end up hurting some one. not only that but i would almost guarantee his design doesn't cut much better than freehanding. and that's what concerns me, I don't want anyone getting hurt AND I don't want his mill being confused for mine, I've worked very hard for the reputation I have.
now since his design is slightly differant there's not much I can do, but if you compare my head/body design they are identical, i won't say who he is or what the name of his mill is don't need him going up in the search que... but here's my dilemna, should I contact him directly and confront him even though there's really nothing I could do, or since I was planning on making a similar design in the future just produce that, and sell it for less than his, his pricing is a little high, considering my pricing. or should I just keep making the mills I make and advertise where he does, so that people will know there's a differance? I am thinking the latter, but would need your help to let me know if you see a mill similar to my designs to let me know where it's advertised, for those of you who don't know what my mills look like, please go to www.pantherpros.com specifically my panthermill 2 pay attention to my head design as i hadn't seen anything close, until I saw his add it is exact except for color.
hey thanks any input would be appreciated.


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## woodtick greg (Sep 12, 2011)

when I was a salesman I always explained features and how it would benefit the customer, I agree with not bashing another product directly. place emphasis on the features, durability and safety of your product. you should also look into a patent if your design is an original. in your advertiseing be sure and show clear photos on your web site pointing out key design features. I have always believed that competition is good for buisness. If your product is superior, and you provide good customer service, use quality materials and at a fair price that you can still make a profit at you will prevail. another way to look at it is how many bandsaw mills are out there and none of them dominate the market. its up to the consumer to choose the best bang for the buck and what will suit their needs. keep doing what you are doing and tweek your buisness as you go and learn from your mistakes and correct them. if the other manufacturers design is flawed it wont be as succesfull as a sound product, word of mouth and forums carry alot of weight.


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## MidGAOutdoor (Apr 7, 2011)

im pondering on one of your mills man. i have a granberg and it cuts thicker on one side. i like the double end design or w/e its called. i need a bigger saw tho. i want a band mill but this would have to work for now. what size saw dop u reccomend? husky 460 rancher with 24 inch bar and ur auz oiler?


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## fromtheforty (Jan 15, 2011)

I know your pain man! I got a competitor that anytime I bring out something new, he decides he's got to copy it. I don't think he's come up with his own idea yet. His quality is not as good but his price is cheaper. Some people only shop price, but those people aren't always the one's you want as customers. Quality and price sometimes hurt in the short run but often sustain you in the long run. I don't think you need to lower your price.

BTW, I have your 48" mill. You shipped it to me in late Sept. I've only had time to cut a few logs with it. It is very well built and I am very happy with it so far. I don't think you need to worry!

Geoff


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## kpantherpro (Oct 3, 2011)

hey wanted to thank you for your input, Greg if you want to get back into sales let me know, i could use someone with experience...lol and your right I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing, those imitators will find out how hard this really is, and they'll either step it up or bow out, Geoff i do remember you and thanks for that, ya I knew this time would come, as I'm sure you did for you, and it sucks that people can't have thier own ideas, but here's the thing if they're always copying you and not doing thier own r&d thier product will never be as good as yours, cause they don't have the passion or devotion that you do, and your right as far as ultimate bargain hunters, I learned a long time ago you get what you pay for, now in my case as far as MY PRODUCTS, they are really inexpensive for the quality they are and it is catching up to me, I may have to raise my pricing just because the cost of everything has gone up so much, or at least take away the free shipping.


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## kpantherpro (Oct 3, 2011)

MidGAOutdoor said:


> im pondering on one of your mills man. i have a granberg and it cuts thicker on one side. i like the double end design or w/e its called. i need a bigger saw tho. i want a band mill but this would have to work for now. what size saw dop u reccomend? husky 460 rancher with 24 inch bar and ur auz oiler?


hey my double clamp designs are built for accuracy, so consistency should not be a problem, but to help you more I need to know what size logs you'll plan on milling and a budget, as well as if these will be logs you'll be travelling to and where, some times thiers stipulations as to what equiptment you can bring in especially on others property or forests. the panthermill 2 is my smaller design it is well balanced, accurate, and built like a brick outhouse, no cracking or fatigueing parts to worry about, and is one reason it keeps it's accuracy, also even though it is built so well, it is still extremely easy to carry one handed even with saw installed, without worrying about cutting yourself on the chain, i can carry it in, around and over brush with minimal effort, when your milling any weight concerns simply go away, and I also believe it helps to reduce vibration, I've used mine all day with out the sleeping hand syndrome, the downside for a mill of this style is to use it effectively and comfortably you should have it at a comfortable working height, I could go on about the pm 2 but I'll stop their. now my panther pro carraige systems, are physically the easiest of pretty much any type chainsaw mill, you don't need any specail equiptment such as loaders, skid steer, etc.except maybe a peavey/cant hook, they are still relatively portable, can be taken to location and set-up in as little as a half-hour, some even mount them on a trailer, and even do electric or four-stroke conversion's eliminating the need for a big chainsaw altogether, currently I am building a few of my pro systems with 4-strokes, pricing will be about $960 more than a standard hd mill. my pro mills are sweet and budget friendly, thier quality is excellant, and requires less physical exertion and they are similar to a bandmill in the way they work, letting you simply walk with a slight push unless set-up on incline beside them as they are cutting. so it's up to how much you think you'll be cuttting, how often, and where you'll be milling, as well as your budget. But any of my mills will pay for themselves in a very short time, and may be how you make the extra money for that desired mill. hey thanks for considering one of my mills, and for those who aren't familiar check them out at www.pantherpros.com


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## woodtick greg (Sep 12, 2011)

your welcome! I hope that my thoughts have encouraged you to keep going and designing new products.I like what you have done already. If I didn't already have a granberg I would buy one of your products. I am eagerly awaiting the arival of your 4 stroke design. I would like to see a 4 stroke mill that can be carried to the log and set up, something like 48'' ish, with oilers on both ends of the bar, maybe with rails on the ground and a carriage? It's the big logs that are difficult to move, and oh those massive slabs! some of the swingmills have slabbing attachments that use chainsaw bars but the cost is outrageus. I think that you are on to something, go man! my 2 cents worth? I would run a honda and clutch it to run a .404 chain, its a little wider kerf but more durable. Hmmmm what say you? I just went to your site and see that you do offer what I am talking about, would like to see a picture of one with a 4 stroke mounted. your site displays chainsaw mills well but I think you would do well to promote 4 stroke technology, especially since 4 stroke motors are cheaper than big chainsaw power heads.


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## kpantherpro (Oct 3, 2011)

oh I have plans to keep going, but encouragement and support is always nice to hear, as you may notice all of my designs are modular, this was done on purpose so that any add-ons that I produce will be applicable to the specific mill, so that one need not worry about waiting to buy a mill with the upgrade, it will be adaptable. i think the next few years will be exciting, but yeah your reading my mind as far as what you mentioned above, i may play with the chain/bar combo's a bit, as well as some other features I won't mention yet, it all comes to time and money, if I can keep busy and keep my help, gives me more time to do R&D, so if YOUR READING THIS AND THINKING ABOUT BUYING A CSM, STOP THINKING... MY DESIGNS ARE SOLID AND YOU WON'T BE DISSAPPOINTED, these will pay for themselves pretty much the same day...oh and Greg when your granberg wear's out, give me a call, I think you'll be surprised at the differance, I know most of my customers who have used them both are.


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## woodtick greg (Sep 12, 2011)

when the time comes I will definaely do that, maybe before I wear it out. when I bought my granberg your mills weren't available yet, if they were things probably would have been different. I dunno I take good care of my equipment. for me winter is shop time, summer is milling time. I'm really likeing the idea of large 4 stroke with long bar for wide slabs, my only concern is about engine / chain speed. 4 stroke 3600 rpm, 2 stroke 8 - 12,000 rpm, I have thought about some kind of a jackshat set up between the bar and motor to get the chain speed up. on a carriage mill the weight wouldn't be a concern, jackshaft and sprockets would only add a pound or two anyway. chain speed would be more important anyway. the torque of a 4 stroke and the low operateing cost is appealing. and the cost will be way lower than a bandmill and more portable, and a wider cut for those logs to big to transport.


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## kpantherpro (Oct 3, 2011)

yea I have alot of options, I'm currently building some, one that will go to Africa, and the other will go to new england as a demo saw, I won't mention any specific's at this time but all the things you mentioned have been considered and will or are being tested, everything is very promising, and as I said my mill was built with these upgrades in mind, so if a customer decides they want to get away from thier 2-stroke chainsaw, the option is thier as well as some future upgrades. you are right it will be much cheaper than a comparable bandmill, it may not have the speed but cut quality will still be outstanding, let you know more once my testing is done.


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## woodtick greg (Sep 12, 2011)

pantherpro, how cool, can't wait to see what you come up with! keep us posted, very interested in a 4 stroke with a carriage to compliment my 2 stroke.


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## kpantherpro (Oct 3, 2011)

Hey Greg, and anyone who is or was a salesman, I am looking to take on a sales force, but I am wondering what you think a fair commission would be, obviously I want to be as fair to all involved, and couldn't really pay a base salary, I'm still small time but really want to grow, I will also be doing away with the free shipping beginning, January maybe February at the latest, just can't afford to do it anymore without raising my pricing. so that in essence may give me a little room to pay a commission, as well as actually make a little bit from my mills, which would be nice.


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