# polyshades?



## ringmuskie9 (Nov 19, 2014)

Anyone have any experience with this?

Is it worth buying or should I just stain as normal and then go over with a polyurethane as my clear coat/sealer? This is for pine T&G

Just wondering if I could save some time and money by buying this all in one. 

Thank you


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## Ron_J (Sep 22, 2014)

I've used it. It works pretty good, and I will use it again. I don't think you get as nice color as you do with regular stain, but it isn't bad.


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## CharlesNeil (Jun 26, 2007)

I hate the stuff ...


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Its a combo stain/poly to reduce steps in the finishing process. It can also be used over an existing polyurethane finish, similar to a toner.

If you have ever added a sealer to a dye stain.....that is exactly what this product will give you.

I also suggest applying a wood conditioner to the wood prior to using polyshades.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

CharlesNeil said:


> I hate the stuff ...


I second this...


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I hate it too but each product has it use. If you have wood in a project of varying colors the fact that it is more like watered down paint will help to even up the appearance.


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## Ron_J (Sep 22, 2014)

CharlesNeil said:


> I hate the stuff ...


Care to elaborate, or is that the extent of your input?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

My experience was it blotched and looked horrible, may have been something I did wrong, but it sure wasn't an easy product to work with.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

BigJim said:


> My experience was it blotched and looked horrible, may have been something I did wrong, but it sure wasn't an easy product to work with.


It sounds like you put it on too thick and it had varying thicknesses of it.


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## MrZ2u (Feb 1, 2015)

BigJim said:


> My experience was it blotched and looked horrible, may have been something I did wrong, but it sure wasn't an easy product to work with.


I second this. Tried several brush types and always got brush strokes and streaky looking color. Never sprayed it and I expect that might be the only way to get a decent finish.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I used it once. It worked for the purpose I needed, I think it was matching something else. What I recall is that the pigment or whatever is giving it it's color is very subject to moving around if you brush it too much. I also found that the pigment settled so quickly that I needed to stir it almost every time before I dipped the brush in the can. I've had better luck using TransTint dye to color finishes. Ordinarily, I'd prefer to stain first and then finish with a clear, but, assuming it's yellow pine, I think you'll be challenged to get the stain to color the hard grain and soft grain in yellow pine to color evenly. Usually the softer rings absorb a lot and get very dark while the harder rings absorb almost nothing.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Like I said above, you really need to precondition the wood before using it if going to bare wood. 

You brush it just like you would a regular poly, but its best to be spray applied.


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## ringmuskie9 (Nov 19, 2014)

Thanks for the input guys.

When using pre conditioner, stain and poly is it best to brush on or wipe on with a rag? I'm assuming the conditioner and the poly is best to be brushed. I was just worrying about the brush streaks.


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## CharlesNeil (Jun 26, 2007)

RonJ,

The folks have pretty much summed it up, Its just difficult to get an even coating , spray is best, but its just more temperamental than applying a color then a top coat, .


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## ringmuskie9 (Nov 19, 2014)

Also, I have been reading a lot on here from you guys about spraying. I have been thinking doing this to my boards to help with time. However, this would be my first time and have a lot in material and hate to ruin some of it. Is it best to spray just the poly or spray both... stain 1st and poly as top coat? I have a large air compressor and a small pancake one. Just need a sprayer. Any suggestions? I was thinking about getting one from harbor freight.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ringmuskie9 said:


> Thanks for the input guys.
> 
> When using pre conditioner, stain and poly is it best to brush on or wipe on with a rag? I'm assuming the conditioner and the poly is best to be brushed. I was just worrying about the brush streaks.


Folks have been brushing varnish for hundreds of years so it can be done. The brush you use helps a lot. Use as soft of a brush as you can find. A china or badger bristle brush works well. When you apply it brush it on as thin as you can with as few strokes as possible. The more you brush it the more the brush marks it will make. It introduces more air in the finish and causes it to set up prematurely letting it thicken before it flows out. In warm weather it also helps to add some Penetrol to the varnish. This causes it to dry slower allowing it to flow out better. After brushing the finish and sanding it between coats the brush marks should be very difficult to see in the final coat. If a completely level finish is desired such as a table top the finish can be wet sanded with fine sandpaper through 1500 grit and buffed to a finish when is identical to a sprayed on finish. Spraying is just a lot less work and I recommend it to anyone.

You posted while I was typing. I use Harbor Freight sprayers. I use the #97855 sprayer I get for 21 bucks with a coupon.


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## ringmuskie9 (Nov 19, 2014)

Spraying is just a lot less work and I recommend it to anyone.

You posted while I was typing. I use Harbor Freight sprayers. I use the #97855 sprayer I get for 21 bucks with a coupon.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Steve... 

Is there any additional steps needed if sprayed? Or 

1. Spray pre- conditioner
2. Spray stain
3. Sand in between stain coats w/320 if more than 1 coat is needed. If not go to my topcoat. 
4. Spray ploy

Probably have to wait for warmer temps to spray too. Right now were luck to get into the mid 30's. Is 50 degrees a good temp or still need to be warmer? I will be spraying outside in the yard.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ringmuskie9 said:


> Spraying is just a lot less work and I recommend it to anyone.
> 
> You posted while I was typing. I use Harbor Freight sprayers. I use the #97855 sprayer I get for 21 bucks with a coupon.


Thanks Steve... 

Is there any additional steps needed if sprayed? Or 

1. Spray pre- conditioner
2. Spray stain
3. Sand in between stain coats w/320 if more than 1 coat is needed. If not go to my topcoat. 
4. Spray ploy

Probably have to wait for warmer temps to spray too. Right now were luck to get into the mid 30's. Is 50 degrees a good temp or still need to be warmer? I will be spraying outside in the yard.[/QUOTE]If waterproofing isn't needed and you have the means of spraying you could use a solvent based lacquer or shellac. It takes a couple hours to dry in that weather but will work. 

The pre-conditioner is a thinned sealer. Some woods like alder and maple are inconsistent in density. There are soft spots and hard spots. The soft spots absorb much more of the stain than the hard spots and make dark blotches. The pre-conditioner when applied on these woods the soft spots really drink it up so when you apply the stain it stains more uniform. Any time you finish a project you need to practice on some scrap wood first. This is especially so when using a conditioner. Too thin and it will still blotch and too thick and the wood won't stain. You have to tinker with the conditioner formula. 

Yes you can spray wood stain. Unless the project is really small I spray all the stain I use. It gets the stain into all the little cracks and crevasses that are hard to get to with a brush. 

320 grit is too fine unless the finish goes on incredibly smooth. I normally sand between coats with 180-220 grit paper. Just be careful sanding the first coat not to sand through the finish. It's much better to leave the finish a little rough than sand through it. With poly I always put on at least 2 coats. The finish should in the end be about 3 mils thick, about the thickness of a lawn and leaf trash bag. 

Spraying poly, it will drift through your shop and settle on everything and stick. If that is the finish you wish to spray you might rig a spray booth with some polyethylene plastic. You also need to make sure there isn't a bunch of dust in the air to settle in the finish. Also most of the time when you get dust in a finish it comes off of you. Make sure you blow all the dust off of yourself before going close to the project you are going to finish. As long as you are very clean with it, it will spray as well as any other finish.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

RandyReed said:


> Its a combo stain/poly to reduce steps in the finishing process. It can also be used over an existing polyurethane finish, similar to a toner.
> 
> If you have ever added a sealer to a dye stain.....that is exactly what this product will give you.
> 
> I also suggest applying a wood conditioner to the wood prior to using polyshades.


 Randy, I am intrigued by your comment about using PolyShades over an existing polyurethane finish. I may want to use this to darken/redden the birch/maple chin cabinet that has been so difficult for me. I have conditioned the whole piece with the Charles Neil Pre-Color Conditioner.

Should I apply one coat of poly before using PolyShades? More than one coat?

Thanks.

Gary


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Yes. I would apply 2 coats, then come back with the polyshades. Again, test pieces need to be done to obtain the right color. Once you have the color right, that's it. You do not need to apply another poly over polyshades as its color and poly rolled into one.

Here is a write up:
http://www.minwax.com/how-to-finish-wood/change-stain-color-with-polyshades/


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## ringmuskie9 (Nov 19, 2014)

Well I decided to go with the Ipswich pine(wood finish not polyshades) after staining a few test pieces. However, the fist 8 boards I did looked good then the last two were almost a reddish color and blotched in some places.I attached a picture of them. Could this be that I might not have stirred the can up enough or let the conditioner dry long enough? I was getting towards the bottom of the can. That is my only guess. I sanded and added the wood conditioner too. 

Is Ipswich suppose to have a reddish tint to it? I'm thinking about trying the natural color or the Puritan pine now. 

Thanks again


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Any product that has a pigment in it should be thoroughly stirred. Actually if the solids are hard in the bottom of a can I usually stir it good and let it sit most of the day or overnight and then thoroughly stir it again. The only way to be sure it is completely stirred is to pour it through a strainer and see if it's all liquid. As far as the Ispwich being red every brand is different and couldn't answer that question. It's possible the wood may have a reddish cast to them too.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

If your using polyshades and spraying, you should be fine. Polyshades acts like a toner, so it should obscure any slight color differences in the wood once a wet coat is applied. 

Remember to scuff sand the wood conditioner lightly with 320 being carfeul not to sand through any areas before you apply the polyshades. You can apply another coat of conditioner if you feel it needs it, just follow the same procedure as the first coat, but remember to sand well.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Polyshades is one of the worse things that ever happened to a finish.

Because it is tinted any variation in applied thickness will create color variations. It is virtually impossible to coat a large flat surface without seeing color variation where the finish was overlapped. If you think you want to use it, buy a small can and test it out on some scrap before using on your "money" project.


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## 1Joe (May 14, 2014)

I have both sprayed and brushed Polyshades. I sprayed it lightly, I sprayed it thinned, I brushed it out of the can, I brushed it thinned, I brushed the runs out till it dried.... There is no way I can get a decent finish using this stuff. It runs. even if the varnish doesn't run, the color does and I ended up with a streaky finish. I have tried to use this stuff on both unfinished wood and finished wood, lightly sanded and cannot get a decent finish out of it. In every case, I ended up having to strip the work piece, and start over. The final time I tried it, the quart of Polyshades went flying out of my shop, down the driveway and into the yard. Enough is enough. I'm back to stain, then varnish. Whew!


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Let me say that spraying oil based finishes can be problematic. The overspray remains in liquid form droplets. They will will float in the air and will coat everything in the area and shop. Spraying using a good spray booth is the best way.

Personally, using the Arm R Seal as a wipe-on finish is the best way to apply.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Again, *Polyshades is a toner*, you can even shade with it to a certain degree. 

If your staining bare wood, do not use polyshades unless it is a light color. Polyshades is mainly supposed to be used to darken an existing color or change the look of an existing color, thats it.


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