# Responsibly sourced wood and FSC



## alanRammel (Aug 31, 2011)

Hi I'm new here but quite long in the tooth when it comes to joinery and hand crafting wooden furniture etc. One thing that has always got me thinking is how I can source timber from sustainable sources. Organizations like FSC (Forest Stewardship Council) seem to put their stamp on timber based products but this often comes with a highly inflated price tag. I wanted to know from you guys whether buying from sustainable sources is something that is on your mind and in particular whether FSC is all that it says it is. Are their cheaper alternatives that are just as "green"?

Thanks for your time.


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## klr650 (Apr 4, 2010)

I've had the same thought ever since getting into woodworking. There are certain truths that have to be faced - you cannot make lumber from a living tree, something has to die. That said, I believe a lot of the guys here, if not all of them, are making lumber from trees that are either deadfalls, windblowns, victims of construction, or culls from existing stands.

I myself do not waste any of the wood I purchase, that and the very low amount of projects I do in a year is how I try to do my part. I buy rough lumber, so that the maximum amount of wood can be obtained.

There is a post here by JFore (sorry I forgot your first name again!), that I think demonstrates very responsible use.

But I am concerned with deforestation - I live in Seattle and see the effects of it every single day and it does depress me greatly.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

While I must admit to be about as far from the burned out Woodstock type as you can get, I do not believe in wasting any resources. It may be a difference in symantecs to some, but it is an important difference. I for one do not use exotics, period, end of story. My working stock comes from known sources such as agricultural culls (Pecan, Walnut, etc... orchards removing non productive trees etc...) storm falls, or fast growth / sustainable forests such as SYP, cedar, and other similar materials. I also recycle materials where I can. One of my favorites is old waterbed frames. Most of them, the thick rails that make the box that the big water bag is held in, are usually Oak, Sothern Yellow Pine, or other workable stock. 

Other good responsible sources are what I will call tree care sawyers. For example, this morning I culled 2 48" long white oak trunk segments from a neighbors drought dead tree. I will quarter this thing with the chain saw, and mill the quarters with my band saw / resaw sled, and sticker the end result in the attic to dry for at least a year. Had I not done this, they material would have ended up in a chipper, as firewood, or worse, in a land fill.


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## alanRammel (Aug 31, 2011)

klr650 said:


> I've had the same thought ever since getting into woodworking. There are certain truths that have to be faced - you cannot make lumber from a living tree, something has to die. That said, I believe a lot of the guys here, if not all of them, are making lumber from trees that are either deadfalls, windblowns, victims of construction, or culls from existing stands.
> 
> I myself do not waste any of the wood I purchase, that and the very low amount of projects I do in a year is how I try to do my part. I buy rough lumber, so that the maximum amount of wood can be obtained.
> 
> ...


Yes I often come across this problem in my line of work as well, but often when I find that I'm looking for responsibly sourced timber, green forestry certification organization compound the problem by adding a prohibitively high price tag. It seems they feel there is money to be made from this area and it's actually forcing companies to be less green than they could be.


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## klr650 (Apr 4, 2010)

I honestly think any higher prices comes from cynicism than anything else. I would imagine that those who offer such services truly do not believe a problem exists, and higher prices comes more from a desire to cash in on another's aching conscience than the increased fees, certifications, whatnot that obtaining responsibly sourced certification requires.

There is another side to it though. We in the US and Canada are blessed with a abdundance of cheap quick growing trees (doug fir, hemlock, pine, cedar) whereas other countries have either totally dunuded their lands (England) or generally only grow tropical trees that are difficult to replace. So in effect we have artifically put a hold on their ability to do the same business we do - simply because we desire to keep their unique trees around. They don't necessarily see it that way of course.

Personally I think a lot of our enviromental problems won't be cured until we put a hold on our population growth.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I have had a sawmill business for almost a decade now...I have never milled a tree from the ''forest'' (with the exception of ones felled for urban expansion into a wooded area or other construction activities like road building). Mine all come from towns, ones removed by municipalities , tree removal services, storm damaged trees needing to be felled for public safety or urban development. Of the 10,000's I have milled not ONE was felled just so I could mill it.

I am not familiar with this hindrance (Forest Stewardship Council) of which you speak making ''green'' lumber products more expensive. (granted I don't get out much) Fortunately for me in my state our Dept of Natural Resources actually promotes guys like me (advertisement-sends us leads on places to sell/customers) and offers free seminars and business support to better utilize our ''urban forests"...I don't participate, I don't like the government on any level involved in my business, but none the less it is available to me. Besides I was doing this years before they ever caught on, in their beginning they contacted me for advice.

Not a direct answer to your question, sorry. I just wanted to chime in and see where this discussion lead.


.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

I have a huge stash to work from. As a hobby woodworker and being cheap and liviing out west I think ahead and buy deals off craigslist. All wood is from craigslist and ranges from being milled 5-15 years ago. All are backyard trees. Walnut at woodcrafters or Windsor is $8-9 bd ft here and shipped from Ca. or back east. Not only do I save the $7-8 but the fuel to ship never gets used. This wood goes to much better uses than in landfill or stove but has no certification.


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## cw log&veneer (Mar 7, 2011)

well here is my 2 cents worth,i purchase wood from the forests every day,i sometimes purchase tracts of timber and harvest them myself. even the part that is not brought out of the woods does not go to waste it lays there and decays which gives the bugs a place to live and something to eat,and gives the critters something to chew on (bugs).it also makes the soil richer. whats wrong with someone burning firewood? it gives them heat to keep them from freezing to death. trees put off oxygen,until they reach a certain age then they produce carbon monoxide.timber is our only renewable natural resource.hardwoods regenerate themselves,have you ever seen two or three prong trees with the same stump.that happens when the reproduce off of the same stump. as far as fsc in my opinion it is a big scam for the government to collect more of our hard earned money,costs $20,000.00 plus a year for timber companys to sign up for this,it also has something to do with carbon credits,if you belong to fsc you earn carbon credits that you can supposedly trade in. so in other words the more carbon credits you have the more pollution you can get by with. i have to sign agreements with fsc certified companys so they can purchase wood from me because i am not fsc certified. i dont understand it all but i do know that a lot of companys arent signing back up because they can t afford it. my opinion ,big companys want to push this so they can put the little guy out. according to the wv division of forestry our timber is growing 5 times faster than it is being harvested. there it is hope i haven t offended anyone.


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## HomeBody (Nov 24, 2010)

The carbon pollution doesn't really apply to burning wood, contrary to what many people think. Trees (wood) are a part of the active carbon cycle. The problem (we are told) comes from burning carbon that is sequestered. In other words, carbon that is not part of the active cycle, like oil. I'm no PhD, but I can't see where responsible cutting of trees and burning wood has any effect on climate change of the so-called AGW type. Gary


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

The discussion seems to have shifted to one of "climate change". Okay fine, the issue at hand is the certification of timber. Aside from the thermal impact of clear cutting, which does have a pronounced impact at ground level, well actually anywhere under where a forest canopy once was on temperatures, but aside from the clear cutting, which has greatly reduced, and instead of man being the cause of the downfall of forest canopies now it is more the domain of various beetles and other pests... I am curious, how human harvesting of timber can impact climate. Would not fluctuations in solar radiation have a more drastic impact on climate than say stripping a mountainside of trees or millions of carbon emitting engines?

I would love to see a discussion of the facts surrounding climate, and environment in a wholly scientific forum without the added contamination of the polarized, almost religious zeal that has corrupted the entire discussion, on both sides... I do not see the right questions being asked... IMHO those questions should be...

#1. What is / are the actual problems?
#2. What is / are the impacts of said problems?
#3. What is / has / will be causing said problems?
#4. What can be done to solve these problems?
#5. Are these said problems really problems at all, or are they how the planet / ecosystem actually work?

Until we can get big government, and big business out of influencing the discussion, and let it come down to serious, honest scientific work, we will never actually get to the meat of the matter.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

When you travel around in the inland pacific northwest. You notice one thing, one heck of a lot of trees are turning red- the bark beetle is devouring our forest in eastern wa, n. Id. and western Mont.. It is hard to beleive but in the name of being PC we are leaving these forests to die and burn :furious: rather than harvest. They will be gone either way. I do not get it?????:thumbdown:


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## HomeBody (Nov 24, 2010)

I just read an article in the local paper that talked about the walnut disease from out west that is now moving east. It is called "thousand cankers disease" and has now been found in PA, TN, and VA. This doesn't sound good for our walnut trees. I think salvaging dead and dying walnut trees would come under the heading of responsibly sourced wood. Gary


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