# Converting chop saw into a cheap table saw



## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

I have a 14" metal chop saw with a no-load speed of 3800 rpm. Since I am not using it very much and have some rough lumber needing to be cut, I was wondering whether it is possible to convert the chop saw into a wood-ripping table saw. I am planning to put a 14" wood cutting blade instead of the metal abrasive disk. The power of the motor sounds good enough for some rough cutting. The only problem is to remove the motor from the stand, and to mount it in an inverted position below the table (with appropriate supporting mechanism).

Has anyone tried such a contraption, and what do you think about the idea? 

Thanks!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's not impossible....*

There have have been many :conversions" of circular saws into table saws, in fact my first table saw was an inverted Skil saw in a sheet metal table. You just have to secure the saw assemble so it can't shift and make certain the fence is parallel to the blade. Here's an image search of the concept:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...fr=ytff1-gl-gen1&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-006



















I actually wanted to convert my 14" chop saw into a firewood "buzz saw" and bought a 14" saw wood cutting blade. I haven't tried it yet for various reasons, mostly a safety thing about securing the wood which is all different diameters and not always straight. 

The chop saw would have a built in control for the depth on the pivot link, something that would be better than most circular saws. The power factor may be an issue with a 14" blade since that is such a large blade. If you keep the depth of cut to under 3" you should have enough power.

As with any saw, safety and control of the workpiece is paramount. A separate and easy to reach on-off switch is a requirement also. Be safe.... and do more research. :yes:


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Short answer? No*

Long answer? Noooooooooooooo...

Joking aside, the amount of time and effort youd put into taking apart the chop saw, fabricating a way to mount the motor, building up a table and trying to find a safe way to get a blade mounted, you could just buy a decent contractors saw. If you just want to build a table saw to save money or whatever other reason, you can do it pretty easily with just a cheapie circular saw. Woodnthings actually linked an example of one of the more complex ways, but it can be as simple as screwing a circular saw to the bottom of a sheet of plywood and resting it on some sawhorses:
http://www.ibuildit.ca/Workshop Projects/utility-table-saw-1.html

No matter how fancy you get with it, itll be a lot easier starting with a tool meant to work with wood to begin with, as well as something thatll be a little easier to mount on something else.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

yeah, the chop saw will not have a shoe... so you would need to get very creative on how to mount the saw otherwise, and have it mounted VERY secure so it cant bind and shift to make things worse. a 14" blade will have alot of momentum for a nasty result if it kicks back.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

Thank you for the detailed replies!

I will go with what Woodnthings says, although I do appreciate the cautionary warning of epicfail.

There are two table-mounted circular saws in my shop (a 7-1/4" saw, and a 10" blade in a 9" saw), so I do have the basic idea. But I haven't yet tried dismounting the motor in a chop saw. Maybe its only a question of removing two bolts and a spring. I will leave the lever in place, as it helps in raising/lowering the blade. Two pieces of plywood glued together to follow the motor's contour can make a good mount.

Will post a picture when it is done. And yes, safety equipment and caution when working with the large 14" blade is good advice!


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I can't imagine it having enough power to run a 14" blade if the idea is to make use of the capacity available.
There was a time when jury rigs like this made sense, these days when there is so much used stuff on the market that will be so much safer why take the chance.


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## woodchux (Jul 6, 2014)

Your conversion plan sounds feasible, but IMO it would always be a probable safety issue. Be safe.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Conversion to table saw*

I don't think the chop saw can power a 14" blade. 
I don't think it's worth all the effort required and safety is a concern. 
You can find where someone made a table saw out of a washing machine motor and a saw blade, but that's not anything most of us would want. 
My advice is to consider your other options.


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## snapper388 (Jun 25, 2015)

I have a 14'' chop saw and a 10 inch miter saw, the miter saw is a lot stronger than the chop saw! a 14'' wood blade is a lot to turn and would probably be slow cutting.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

snapper388 said:


> I have a 14'' chop saw and a 10 inch miter saw, the miter saw is a lot stronger than the chop saw! a 14'' wood blade is a lot to turn and would probably be slow cutting.


I did some calculations of the blade speed. My 14" chop saw blade turning at no-load rpm of 3800 translates into a blade speed of about 150 mph. A 14" table saw turns much slower at about 3000 rpm, which means a blade speed of 120 mph. I have seen 3 HP motors driving a 14" table saw. My 14" chop saw has a 2-2/3 HP motor, which may appear to be a little underpowered but when combined with a higher blade speed, it may have the same cutting power as a 3 HP, 14" table saw. So I don't expect any drop in the cutting capacity compared to a medium powered table saw.:thumbsup:


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## phoenixbound (Nov 24, 2014)

ah, isn't "cutting power" decided by torque; not speed?? I have a 110v Rotozip (POS), and a battery powered dremel. The Dremel, while not turning at the same insane top speeds as the Rotozip, still has a top speed that one would think would be adequate for polishing, grinding, etc, but the fact is there is so little torque that as soon as you place the tool against a workpiece, the speed falls down to quite pathetic levels, making for a slow pace to achieve the desired results. The Rotozip, with more available torque can power through things orders of magnitude faster than the Dremel.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*apples and bananas...*



phoenixbound said:


> ah, isn't "cutting power" decided by torque; not speed?? I have a 110v Rotozip (POS), and a battery powered dremel. The Dremel, while not turning at the same insane top speeds as the Rotozip, still has a top speed that one would think would be adequate for polishing, grinding, etc, but the fact is there is so little torque that as soon as you place the tool against a workpiece, the speed falls down to quite pathetic levels, making for a slow pace to achieve the desired results. The Rotozip, with more available torque can power through things orders of magnitude faster than the Dremel.


When I discovered my RotoZip was pretty much useless for drywall piercing, which was why I bought it, 
I did find it made a far better high speed grinder than anything else I owned, including the Dremel clones.

The reason it is so much more powerful is that the motor is 4 times the size of the Dremels and draws about 4 times the AMPs. However, in the case of the 14" chop saw, running on a universal motor with brushes, rather than an induction motor like most larger table saws, it won't develop the same power. There are no 14" table saws running 3 HP motors, only 10 HP and larger, and usually 3 phase industrial motors.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-Sliding-Table-Saw/G0772



A 3 HP motor on a 10" table saw will work just fine, but not on a 14" saw. As I suggested earlier, if you keep the cut maximum below 3" it should work OK, just like a 10" table saw. The blade hole is probably 1" on the chop saw, as it was on mine, but I did find a 14" X 1" arbor blade. I would look for a smaller blade like a 10", but good luck finding one with a 1" arbor hole... !2" blades have 1" arbor holes if I recall.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Saw conversion*

After almost everyone on this forum has advised you not to do this, your mind is made up to go forward with it. 
Let us know the outcome.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> After almost everyone on this forum has advised you not to do this, your mind is made up to go forward with it.
> Let us know the outcome.


Thanks! That's the American way. If the Wright Brothers had listened to all the naysayers, we wouldn't be flying!

I'm sure a 2-2/3 HP universal brushed motor can adequately drive a 14" saw blade, because a much smaller (2-1/3 HP) motor of similar construction is able to power the 16" beam-cutting handheld saw of Makita quite successfully:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzidXX5cDgw

All 12" and larger saw blades/cutting disks come with a 1" arbor hole so there will be no problem in mounting the blade.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

phoenixbound said:


> ah, isn't "cutting power" decided by torque; not speed?? I have a 110v Rotozip (POS), and a battery powered dremel. The Dremel, while not turning at the same insane top speeds as the Rotozip, still has a top speed that one would think would be adequate for polishing, grinding, etc, but the fact is there is so little torque that as soon as you place the tool against a workpiece, the speed falls down to quite pathetic levels, making for a slow pace to achieve the desired results. The Rotozip, with more available torque can power through things orders of magnitude faster than the Dremel.


Rotozip starts with a tiny power, and as you load it slows down while developing a slightly larger than starting torque. If the same thing had a higher power for the given starting speed, it will certainly develop a larger torque when you load it! Conversely, if the no-load speed is higher at a given power, the torque developed on loading will be much greater.


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## phoenixbound (Nov 24, 2014)

Jigsaw_lover said:


> Rotozip starts with a tiny power, and as you load it slows down while developing a slightly larger than starting torque. If the same thing had a higher power for the given starting speed, it will certainly develop a larger torque when you load it! Conversely, if the no-load speed is higher at a given power, the torque developed on loading will be much greater.



Did you understand what I wrote about rotation speed for your 14" blade being irrelevant to it's ability to cut lumber as well as a smaller blade run by a slower but more powerful motor? I have a 5HP, 220v Unisaw that will power through anything I feed it. My previous saw had far less torque and therefore stalled at the slightest provocation. 

*I think we are beating a dead horse here.*


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## snapper388 (Jun 25, 2015)

you could try putting a wood cutting blade on the chop saw before disassembly and see if you like the way it cuts.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

Why not just buy a craftsman (113, 103) table saw off Cl for $100 or less. Sometimes, people give the things away. I suppose if you need or want a project that might be a one worth your time, but a real table saw can be had and in the end you will have a real table saw.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Jigsaw_lover said:


> I did some calculations of the blade speed. My 14" chop saw blade turning at no-load rpm of 3800 translates into a blade speed of about 150 mph. A 14" table saw turns much slower at about 3000 rpm, which means a blade speed of 120 mph. I have seen 3 HP motors driving a 14" table saw. My 14" chop saw has a 2-2/3 HP motor, which may appear to be a little underpowered but when combined with a higher blade speed, it may have the same cutting power as a 3 HP, 14" table saw. So I don't expect any drop in the cutting capacity compared to a medium powered table saw.:thumbsup:


I can garuntee that chop saw motor isn't actually putting out nearly 3hp. On 110vac, 1 hp draws roughly 10 amps, so unless your saw is pulling 30 amps or more, its not that powerful. Universal motors are extremely overrated in the hp department, shop vacs do the same thing


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## phoenixbound (Nov 24, 2014)

epicfail48 said:


> I can garuntee that chop saw motor isn't actually putting out nearly 3hp. On 110vac, 1 hp draws roughly 10 amps, so unless your saw is pulling 30 amps or more, its not that powerful. Universal motors are extremely overrated in the hp department, shop vacs do the same thing


Truer words were never spoken!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it is possible to do!*

http://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...&hsimp=yhs-006
There are numerous examples of circular saws mounted on plywood, under stamped steel tables, etc. It been done. The Makita 16" saw disproves the lack of power from a 15 AMP AC/DC motor like a chop saw would have.
It may not have the power of a 3 HP cabinet saw, but that's not the OP's issue. He can just use it within the power capability it has.
So having said that....naysayers and doomsdayers be damned, just do it, but use all the safety considerations you can and if you need more free advice come back here.
I've done enough machine design to know what I am capable of, but I or we don't know the engineering skills of the OP. I've built a panel saw from a RAS, a radial arm router in a RAS frame etc. it's a matter of figuring things out slowly but surely. 
Let's see some photos of your progress.... :yes:


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

Thanks for all the good advice again!

I just put a 10" blade and tried a test cross-cut in a small log with the chop saw. It worked beautifully without a problem. Have ordered a 14" ripping blade and also started making a plywood mount for the saw. 

Will report further progress later.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*just for inspiration ....*

here's a bowl lathe build thread by a younger member here who despite some naysayers has gone ahead and build a pretty substantial machine:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/bowl-lathe-build-thread-84617/


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

The other question is the duty cycle of the motor, chop saws do not run continuously, I know from experience that compressor duty motors do not last very long on a table saw when you really put it to work.
Anyway good luck with your project.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

epicfail48 said:


> I can garuntee that chop saw motor isn't actually putting out nearly 3hp. On 110vac, 1 hp draws roughly 10 amps, so unless your saw is pulling 30 amps or more, its not that powerful. Universal motors are extremely overrated in the hp department, shop vacs do the same thing


So I guess you don't take the claim of Dewalt DW871 14", 15amp, 5.3Hp chop saw seriously:

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW871-14-Inch-5-3-Horsepower-Chop/dp/B0000224IZ

:laughing:


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Horsepower*

American Manufacturers make false claims regarding the horsepower on power tools. 
This is a fact. 
About all the horsepower you can get out of a Standard 110 circuit is 2 HP. 
If you need more, you need to go to a 220 circuit. If you need still more, you go to 3 phase, etc. 
So, how can they get by, selling me a 110 volt 6 1/2 HP shop vac?
I wish I knew the answer. It's gotten truly ridiculous. 

Regarding making a table saw out of a chop saw;
You can put a saw blade on the shaft of a washing machine motor, but it's not something most of us would want.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*electric motor HP vs gas engine HP...*

They are rated in a different way apparently:
https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/electric-motor-hp-ratings-and-other-secrets-of-the-universe/

From the article above:
_Most motors can put out a lot more maximum horsepower than they can sustain continuously. By forcing more mechanical load on the motor, slowdown is increased and so therefore is the output horsepower. Mechanically, horsepower is torque times rpm, and increasing the mechanical load means that the rpm is slowed slightly and the drag torque is increased to obtain more torque times rpm. Electrically, horsepower is volts times amps, and by conservation of energy, the mechanical output horsepower must be balanced by electrical input horsepower. Since the voltage is relatively constant, this means that as a motor is loaded, the input current increases. But the electrical winding impedance has a resistive component, so that higher current means more power dissipated in the windings. In fact, the motor windings heat up proportional to the square of the motor current. Except for specially designed motors, the current that a motor can sustain continuously without burning out its windings is a fraction of the current at maximum load.”_


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## AJH (Apr 11, 2013)

Ripping boards on a underpowered tablesaw is pretty dangerous,If you stall the motor in the wood just right it will launch the wood back at you.The energy will be transferd form the motor to the wood.Then you will find out how powerful the motor is.Strong enough to hurt you badly but not enough to rip rough lumber.Think about getting something off craigslist as others have suggested.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*underpowered ....*

If you stall the motor will ripping as I have done many times, just turn the thing off. If you stall it, it ain't goin' anywhere....it's stalled by definition. If you stall it your feed rate was excessive or worst case, the wood closed up on the back of the blade and it's bound up .... just turn it off. A good reason to have a splitter. 
This is the reason all table saws should have a hip operated ON/OFF switch, essdy to reach witrh your hand otr bump with your hip. All my tables saws have one....just sayin'....


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

@woodnthings
Thanks for showing a partial picture of your shop. 
Very Nice shop.


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## AJH (Apr 11, 2013)

That is a sharp looking setup Woodenthings,hopefully the op will take heed how dangerous table saw can be,I never stalled the blade on my Davis and wells saw nice big 2hp motor.Its those little job site saw that are bad news for the unskilled worker.They just don't have any mass.
I would feel bad if someone got hurt crafting a home made machine that I led them to believe it's no big deal.People do it all the time.
Kinda like that gotta take the bull by the horns attitude. Another dangerous thing to do.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> American Manufacturers make false claims regarding the horsepower on power tools.
> This is a fact.
> About all the horsepower you can get out of a Standard 110 circuit is 2 HP.
> If you need more, you need to go to a 220 circuit. If you need still more, you go to 3 phase, etc.
> ...


Unfortunately, even German manufacturers make false claims about their power ratings. I had posted an earlier thread regarding Bosch jigsaws, where a newer, supposedly more powerful saw had a poorer cutting performance. The same is true of Bosch chop saws being sold in India. Please check out the following comparison of older GCO 2000 vs. the newer, 'more powerful' GCO 2400 version:

http://www.bosch-pt.co.in/in/en/metal-cut-off-grinder-gco-2000-131477.html

The claimed cutting capacity of GCO 2000 is actually greater in square and L-profiles, while being the same as GCO 2400 in rectangular profile!

Woodworking hobby is pretty rare in India, so good table saws are hardly available here. :no: One has to get them imported from USA/Europe/Japan @ high custom duty. :furious:

That is why I am looking for a cheaper, homemade version. Hope I have made my requirement clear. :1eye:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

This saw was mentioned in another thread so I had to take a look at what it was, another concept:
http://www.holzmann-maschinen.at/pr...language=en&osCsid=5hmtb9de9vpi2t0cjoiqmttic6


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Jigsaw_lover said:


> Woodworking hobby is pretty rare in India, so good table saws are hardly available here. :no: One has to get them imported from USA/Europe/Japan @ high custom duty. :furious:
> 
> That is why I am looking for a cheaper, homemade version. Hope I have made my requirement clear. :1eye:


Thank you for that explanation. That makes it easier for us to understand your need for the conversion. Now that I have a better understanding, why do you need a 14" saw blade?


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

Toolman50 said:


> Thank you for that explanation. That makes it easier for us to understand your need for the conversion. Now that I have a better understanding, why do you need a 14" saw blade?


 Thanks!

I have procured some lumber consisting of many uneven thick pieces. Trying to cut them with my 7-1/2" and 10" improvised table saws has not worked, so I need a blade with a deeper cut. That is also why I am trying the chop saw conversion. Probably the power will be limited so feeding rate of the logs has to be slow. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw, without a riving knife or splitter. :shifty:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Jigsaw_lover said:


> Thanks!
> 
> *. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw*, without a riving knife or splitter. :shifty:


You did not mention using a fence. :no: 

Here's some free advice. Do not cut lumber "freehand" on a table saw. It's not like a circular saw. A table saw is designed to ONLY be used with a fence when ripping... it's called a rip fence. IF and WHEN the blade binds because the wood closes on the it or when the edge of the work is not held in contact with the fence it will bind and a kickback will occur. 

Only wood that been straightened on a jointer is designed to be place against the fence for this reason. You can use a board straightening jig to make the rough or curved edge straight THEN use it against the fence.

If you want to straight line rip rough lumber.... use a track saw, not a table saw. Instead of making a table saw from your Chop saw, make it into a track saw, and work from above like using a circular saw with a guide. A track saw will follow the "track" or guide, NOT the rough edge of a piece of crooked lumber... no binding, no kickback. It will be much safer! :yes:










The track saw won't allow the saw itself to meander or change course, since it's confined in the track, NOT just held against a guide by the operator. It's like a circular saw on rails, and there are larger versions called "rail saws":










The famous lawsuit by an unskilled operator against Ryobi who was ripping flooring freehand on a small table saw and lost some fingers... I don't know all the details, but it cost Ryobi 1.5 million $$$. The jury blamed the saw manufacturer, when it was clearly the faulty of the operator who did not have any of the safety guards on or was not using the fence.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/25130/man-wins-big-money-in-tablesaw-lawsuit

*
The issue I see with re-purposing a chop saw it that it will not have a self-retracting blade guard unless you account for that in the design. You will have to be extremely cautious when setting the saw down with the motor/blade still spinning, since it will grab and want to come backwards. There are issues either way... track saw vs table saw. You must be aware of these before making any home grown versions of either.
*
:yes:

EDIT: For "freehand" ripping of rough edged wood a bandsaw would be the safest machine or a jigsaw.....


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Jigsaw_lover said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have procured some lumber consisting of many uneven thick pieces. Trying to cut them with my 7-1/2" and 10" improvised table saws has not worked, so I need a blade with a deeper cut. That is also why I am trying the chop saw conversion. Probably the power will be limited so feeding rate of the logs has to be slow. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw, without a riving knife or splitter. :shifty:


That is a scary statement, and a very dangerous practice, please think this through and find a safe way of feeding the logs other than freehand.

From what I read now it is more of a mill you are attempting to build than a table saw, you definitely need a carrier of some type for the logs.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> You did not mention using a fence. :no:
> 
> you want to straight line rip rough lumber.... use a track saw, not a table saw. Instead of making a table saw from your Chop saw, make it into a track saw, and work from above like using a circular saw with a guide. A track saw will follow the "track" or guide, NOT the rough edge of a piece of crooked lumber... no binding, no kickback. It will be much safer! :yes:
> :yes:
> ...


 Thanks for the excellent advice about the track saw.:thumbsup: It certainly sounds much safer than a table mounting, and perhaps may also be easier (provided a guide/track is built first). I am willing to give it a try, although I am not sure at this point how it can be used for ripping lumber. 

The rail saw and band saw appear to be more of professional machines, likely to cost a fortune. I have not seen anyone here using them, except in sawmills. Yes, I do use jigsaws for cutting small lengths of straight boards now and then.

I can't use a fence while ripping the logs as their sides are very uneven. I use the fence only when cutting plywood and straight boards.

Thanks again!:icon_smile:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*each time you post ....*

Everytime you post a reply, the ground rules change. Now it's logs, not lumber a whole 'nother ball game.

You must watch some You tube videos on shop made bandsaws. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92u4vg-dr3w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Gdp5255kw


The bandsaw is the time tested and proven way to reduce logs into lumber. Yes, the first sawmills used large circular saws up to 5 ft in diameter, some even larger BUT most owner operated sawmills these days use a bandsaw mill.

It will be difficult if not impossible to convert your chop saw to a bandsaw in my opinion. The concept of a bandsaw is simple, but the execution is complicated with blade guides and bearings and blade tensioning devices and power transfer mechanics.

If you can find a used engine 8 to 20 HP you are along way to getting a start. Wheels can come off scooter, or motor bikes and the bearings would be built in.

A lost finger or worse is not worth saving a few $$ to make something that was not intended for the purpose you have in mind. A track saw will rip lumber easily and give you a clean straight edge BUT it will not reduce logs into lumber safely or if at all. JMO. :smile:

Check out this thread:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f26/bandsaw-sawmill-build-89017/


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Jigsaw_lover said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have procured some lumber consisting of many uneven thick pieces. Trying to cut them with my 7-1/2" and 10" improvised table saws has not worked, so I need a blade with a deeper cut. That is also why I am trying the chop saw conversion. Probably the power will be limited so feeding rate of the logs has to be slow. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw, without a riving knife or splitter. :shifty:


Oh dear sweet lord Jesus, you're wanting to free hand logs on a 14 inch table saw? Mate, turn back now before you lose a finger, at best. A table saw isn't what you need. You're looking for either a bandsaw or a chainsaw with an Alaskan mill setup


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

*Ripping thick boards*

This post started with the question of ripping lumber. 
Cross cutting with a chop saw is certainly a doable project. 
Originally the question was ripping lumber with a converted chop saw with a 14" blade. 
The forum advised against it. 
We all think it's a bad decision. 
Next you tell us you rip without a fence. 
You're advised against this practice. 
Now you explain this is thick dimension lumber and requires a 14" blade. 
For this type cut on this type lumber, you have been advised to consider a bandsaw. 
We all truly want to help. We want to guide you in a safe way. 
Ripping on a conversion of a chop saw with a 14" blade without a fence is highly discouraged. One of several things will surely happen (all bad). 
1. Your little chop saw motor will quickly fail. (The least of your 
problems)
2. You will burn through your cuts, causing problems with both the blade 
and the lumber. 
3. You will be seriously injured with a kick-back. 

A chop- saw has no larger motor than a portable circular saw. 
Why not start with a portable circular saw? 
Buy one designed to cut cants and timbers. When mounted under a table and using a rip blade, it might do a decent job with a home-made fence. 
I think you will still need to cut in 2" increments. Raising the blade after each pass to make the final cut. 
Saving money is understood by everyone in this forum. But we are all against Risking injury to save money. 
Let's be smart. Let's work safe.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

epicfail48 said:


> Oh dear sweet lord Jesus, you're wanting to free hand logs on a 14 inch table saw? Mate, turn back now before you lose a finger, at best. A table saw isn't what you need. You're looking for either a bandsaw or a chainsaw with an Alaskan mill setup


Thanks for trying to scare me! :smile:

I have been using a 9" circular saw mounted inverted under a table with a 10" blade for successfully reducing 5-6" dia. logs into lumber of up to 3x3" sections.:thumbsup: 

Pictures of the sample results and the saw are posted in "My Photos". Please check them out.

Yes, I know the set-up is considered not quite safe by modern standards, but I have been doing this (carefully) for some years now and still have 10 fingers!:yes:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it's just a matter of time before....*

You may play Russian Roulette for some time before the loaded chamber will fire, but it's not a good idea. :no:

Here's some of the physics involved. A circular saw blade is a rotating flat plane and creates a vertical kerf as it cuts. If you change the direction of the workpiece that plate needs to accept the change or it will bind and kickback. A larger diameter blade will have less ability to change direction in a narrow kerf, so the danger will increase.

Large blade circular saw mills always have the logs mounted to a carriage that rolls parallel with the plane of the blade. The log is secured to the carriage and can't shift, so it doesn't bind. 

A bandsaw mill has a much more narrow blade, usually about 1 1/2" at most, and is less sensitive to a minor shift of the workpiece, but they also have a carriage to move the saw parallel to the rails securing the log.

I have used a bandsaw to reduce logs into lumber, resawing them down their length using a "carriage" or sled to hold the log AFTER I made a flat on one side using a powered hand plane or my jointer. You need one flat side to avoid having the workpiece shift and bind the blade.
 

 

 

 

Every commercial table saw I know of comes with a rip fence and some of the larger ones have the capacity to add a mechanical roller "feeder" to guide the heavier boards through the blade. The larger the blade the more dangerous the saw, since there is more surface area and a more powerful motor. 

For your stated needs and a low budget, I would recommend an electric chain saw for sawing the round logs into more usable lumber. They are quite reasonably priced, usually under $100.00. They don't have a lot of power, but it would be a whole lot safer than the proposed inverted chop saw. 

All the comments here are speculation for sure, since none of us has done exactly what you propose, but you asked for comments and got our advice. There is always physics involved in any woodworking operation and I have tried to explain what may happen when you increase the blade diameter and have a hand held, and unsecured, round log for a workpiece, the combination is dangerous to say the least. :yes:


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

I am grateful to the all the members of this forum for their valuable and experienced advice.

The best option for ripping logs and uneven pieces of lumber is a band saw, but since I don't have the funds to purchase one I will go ahead with the chop saw conversion. The advice of woodnthings to first plane one side of the log before ripping is very good, and I will try to do so with my large jointer plane (don't have a planer machine yet, that's why I guess I am a junior member).

Once again, it was nice exchanging views with all of you!


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Jigsaw_lover said:


> Thanks for trying to scare me! :smile:
> 
> I have been using a 9" circular saw mounted inverted under a table with a 10" blade for successfully reducing 5-6" dia. logs into lumber of up to 3x3" sections.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Just because you've done it before without being injured doesn't make it safe. The only craftsman Ive seen get injured are the ones who thought they were too careful to harm themselves. Seriously, using the saw as you're intending is a horrible, horrible idea, and will end up maiming you


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## AlanWS (Feb 2, 2013)

If you want to build your own machines for economic or other reasons, take a look at the designs for shopmade bandsaws and tablesaws here: http://woodgears.ca/tools.html


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

:blink:...

This thread is like a bad dream......



:blink:



B,


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*even in a bad dreram....*

You can still wake up will wake up with all your fingers.....



Bweick7 said:


> :blink:...
> 
> This thread is like a bad dream......
> 
> ...


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> You can still wake up will wake up with all your fingers.....


There is no need to be scared of your tools. Any tool can hurt you if used carelessly. One has to master the tools, instead of letting them master you. A circular saw is a useful and versatile tool and can cut anything with a proper blade and the right attitude.

Please be aware of yours and the tool's limitations, and work safely without fear.:thumbsup:


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## gms002a (Dec 8, 2012)

*planning log*



woodnthings said:


> You may play Russian Roulette for some time before the loaded chamber will fire, but it's not a good idea. :no:
> 
> Here's some of the physics involved. A circular saw blade is a rotating flat plane and creates a vertical kerf as it cuts. If you change the direction of the workpiece that plate needs to accept the change or it will bind and kickback. A larger diameter blade will have less ability to change direction in a narrow kerf, so the danger will increase.
> 
> ...



woodnthings. I often resaw logs on my bandsaw. Instead of planning one side to make it flat(I am a very lazy person), I just screw a straight piece of MDF 
or ply (acting as a guide running against the fence) and run in trough the bandsaw. It's kind of a very simple, throw away sled. After that I turn the log 90deg on the "sled", re-fasten it and run through the saw again. That gives me two flat, perpendicular sides to work with. 

Just make sure that you sink the screw heads into the guide.
Woodgears has a very good article on it

https://woodgears.ca/shop-tricks/bandsaw_sled.html

Google "log resaw sled" - many examples. 

also http://lumberjocks.com/projects/10607

The same technics can be used on a table saw and it's relatively safe, because you're guiding the wood.

Cheers


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*yes, that's an easy solution!*

We do not want the log to shift or rotate when in the saw. A 90 degree sled could be made from two 1 X 6's and then screw the log onto both of the faces to keep it secure.

You can either make a large fence for a flat sided log, a sled that will carry the log or a jig that rides the fence and the table ... all will work.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> You can still wake up will wake up with all your fingers.....


I can appreciate the ingenuity...honestly


But....


Don't expect much from all your effort.......


Bosch already makes a compound miter saw/table saw combo -euro


Not my cup of tea- personally.


People seam to want to reinvent the wheel....

Why.....? Human nature to invent ......which I am very much a proponent of.

But....there is a fine line.....


JMPO..

B,


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

Update on the project ...

I have converted the chop saw into a circular saw, and it is now mounted inverted under a table. I have also put a riving knife and a fence for safety. But the 14" blades are available here with either 80 or 12 teeth, which is not good for ripping. Hence I am sticking with 10" 40 tooth ripping blade until I get the proper 12" or 14" ripping blade. I have also ripped a few logs on it, but it currently gives me no advantage in terms of cutting depth which I wanted in comparison with my previous set up. Bye for now!


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## asevereid (Apr 15, 2012)

No no no.... You gotta show us pics!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You are misinformed*



Jigsaw_lover said:


> Update on the project ...
> 
> I have converted the chop saw into a circular saw, and it is now mounted inverted under a table. I have also put a riving knife and a fence for safety. But the 14" blades are available here with either 80 or
> *12 teeth, which is not good for ripping.
> ...


The 30 tooth blades and less are best for ripping, and a 12 tooth would be best for green logs. 

A 40 tooth blade is a general purpose blade meant for cabinet work and hardwood stock less than 2" thick. A blade with more than 50 teeth is best for crosscutting. The 40 to 50 tooth blades fall into a one size fits all type of blade where you don't always have to change out the blade to make a different type of cut. 

You will only gain 1" of cutting depth going from a 10" blade to a 12" blade since it's the radius that determines the depth, not the diameter.


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

Sorry, I meant to write "either 80 or 120 teeth", but I missed the zero in 120! 

These high tooth count blades are actually meant for cutting aluminium. The smallest number of teeth in 10" (and higher dia.) blades available here is actually 40, hence I am forced to use them.

If I could find 30 (or less) tooth blade it would be the best.

Thanks again for your reply!


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## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

asevereid said:


> No no no.... You gotta show us pics!


Yes, I will upload the pics of the new setup soon :yes:


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## vhickok36 (Oct 15, 2016)

I have a 14" abrasive Cut-off saw and do not plan on doing metal work. Can I just put a 14" wood cutting blade on it and use it like a chop saw?


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Jig_saw said:


> I have a 14" metal chop saw with a no-load speed of 3800 rpm. Since I am not using it very much and have some rough lumber needing to be cut, I was wondering whether it is possible to convert the chop saw into a wood-ripping table saw. I am planning to put a 14" wood cutting blade instead of the metal abrasive disk. The power of the motor sounds good enough for some rough cutting. The only problem is to remove the motor from the stand, and to mount it in an inverted position below the table (with appropriate supporting mechanism).
> 
> Has anyone tried such a contraption, and what do you think about the idea?
> 
> Thanks!


I cannot be believe that there have been 57 replies to this thread. While it possible to do what you want, it would be highly impracticable and you would probably have an unsafe product.

Sell the chop saw and buy a cheap used table saw.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*THis was a dead thread*

It was bought back to life by a different question:


vhickok36 said:


> I have a 14" abrasive Cut-off saw and do not plan on doing metal work. Can I just put a 14" wood cutting blade on it and use it like a chop saw?





GeorgeC said:


> I cannot be believe that there have been 57 replies to this thread. While it possible to do what you want, it would be highly impracticable and you would probably have an unsafe product.
> 
> Sell the chop saw and buy a cheap used table saw.
> 
> George


The OP Jig Saw, has vanished from the forum as of several months ago, but had inverted the chop saw under a table, but has not posted since. He was advised against, but many others have made cheap table saws using the same process with a circular saw. It's not totally unsafe if the ON/OFF switch can be remoted using a separate, switchable power supply AND the fence can be kept in alignment with the blade.
My 1960 Skil circular saw came with a stamped steel table and was not much different than the proposed idea.

AS far as using a wood cutting blade in a 14" chop saw, this is exactly what I intend to try to trim the lengths of split firewood, that are too long to fit into my wood stove. I have purchased this 14" Oshlun wood cutting blade. The highest RPM recommended is 4800 RPM which I will verifiy on the saw motor before going any further:


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