# percise measurements



## HowardHammerman (Sep 30, 2009)

I am making a table from plans that include several dado cut with a router, percise lengths of the legs, etc.

I have a table saw, router table, a second router and a cut off saw.
I am having trouble getting the parts to the percise measurements. The only way I have found is to "sneak up" on the measurements taking tiny slivers off one end until I get it right. For small cut-office, I take a piece of scrap and get it right and then clamp a stop to the bed of the cutoff saw and then do the real pieces. But this does not work for long pieces. I wish I had an industrial-sized machine with a screw setting. But this is a shop in my garage. Any tips are welcome.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

HowardHammerman said:


> I am making a table from plans that include several dado cut with a router, percise lengths of the legs, etc.
> 
> I have a table saw, router table, a second router and a cut off saw.
> I am having trouble getting the parts to the percise measurements. The only way I have found is to "sneak up" on the measurements taking tiny slivers off one end until I get it right. For small cut-office, I take a piece of scrap and get it right and then clamp a stop to the bed of the cutoff saw and then do the real pieces. But this does not work for long pieces. I wish I had an industrial-sized machine with a screw setting. But this is a shop in my garage. Any tips are welcome.



The tools you're using are likely the same as what a great proportion of the woodworkers use. If your tools are in spec, and adjusted properly, it's a matter of measuring and marking. You should use the same tape or measuring device throughout the entire project. 

For multiple cuts, using a stop will help with making the same cuts. You might have to spend some time with marking and cutting measurements so you are comfortable.












 





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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Accurate cuts require...*

Sharp and accurately set up tools and as well as jigs, set-up and fixtures for repetitive cuts.
An extended miter gauge fence will work on the table saw with a stop block clamped at the desired length. A long fence on either side of your miter saw is similar. You can make a story stick with a hooked end to measure from the work to the blade on longer pieces if you don't trust your measurements. What ever you can do to reduce "human error" is best. 
The story stick can also be a checking fixture so a cut piece can be fit between 2 blocks or a block and a mark or several marks on the same project.  bill


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## HowardHammerman (Sep 30, 2009)

Bill,

What is a story stick?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Story stick*

When building a cabinet or other project all the relevant dimensions are laid out and scribed, I use a ball point pen for it's fine line, on a unmarked stick, 1 X 2 is fine. I label the stick with the project name (kitchen cabinets at 342 Longwood St.) for future reference. The length should include the longest dimension required. This eliminates the sheet of paper or 3 x5 card that ends up missing...just don't saw the story stick up and use it on the project! :laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

HowardHammerman said:


> Bill,
> 
> What is a story stick?



*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*


A story stick is pretty much the way Bill described it. All it is, is a stick, or a length of wood that tells a story. It could have different marks on it, but the marks are indicative of distances you need for reference, instead of using a tape measure. 

If done accurately a story stick represents the exact distances, thus eliminating the possibility of mis-measuring. For example, if you had no tape measure, and you needed to get the distances of outlets from the corner of a wall to lay them out for kitchen cabinets, take a long stick and push it into the corner, and mark them off along the stick. You would of course mark the end of the stick which corner it represents. For their height, you could turn the stick and place the end on the floor, and mark off each outlet. 

So, now you have the story about a story stick.












 





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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

If you really want accuracy with the longer pieces, take the time to build a fence for your chop saw that is a least as long as your longest piece so you can use stop blocks. When I need to be accurate, I make my marks with a razor blade. Just angle the mark into where you will be cutting so it will disappear when you make the cut.


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## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

I use my miter saw on a bench, bolted to a scrap of ply which is clamped to the bench. My saw table, like all others, sets a few inches above the bench. So, I ripped a couple 2X4s to match the hight of the saw table. Then I notched one end of each so they could be easily clamped on either side of the saw. These provide support for longer pieces.
For multiple parts of the same length, I cut one, using a measuring tape to obtain the length. Then, clamp a piece of ply (higher than the width of the 2X ? to the out board side of one of the 2X?s. Drop the saw blade down and lock it. Lay the just cut piece on the table and against the blade at one end, bring the clamped 2X? and ply to the other end and clamp it down to the bench. Works great.
Now that I've finally acquired a sliding miter saw, I will be building a cabinet with a proper fence, adjustable stops and recess for the saw. But, until then, the 2X?s and clamped plywood works just fine.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

You just need a bigger hammer.




:w00t:


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## huggie (Sep 26, 2010)

Being a big LV fan -- i noticed they sell a story tape. Have not tried it yet but for the price it might be worth a try.

Cheers,


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## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

huggie said:


> Being a big LV fan -- i noticed they sell a story tape. Have not tried it yet but for the price it might be worth a try.
> 
> Cheers,


Is that the blank one they advertised on 4/1?


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm a newbie, you probably know all this. But if not, here are some of the most eye opening tricks I picked up from recent magazine articles:

If you're marking with a pencil, try a sharp utility knife blade.

For chop saw measurements, don't just make a tickmark on the edge. Instead make a cut mark where the first tooth will touch down

Watch which way the saw blade teeth are tipped. If you line up with a tooth going one way, the next one may tip the other, throwing off where you thought the kerf would be.

For cross cutting on the table saw, I instantly fell in love with the simple cross cut sled on the cover of Wood Magazine's recent shop tips 
http://www.woodstore.net/bewojitiandi.html


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

And Yes....sneaking up on a cut is a legitimate woodworking technique.


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## huggie (Sep 26, 2010)

Gene Howe said:


> Is that the blank one they advertised on 4/1?


It is a few selections down from 4/1.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43455&p=66239 

Hopefully this link works.

Cheers,


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Howard,
Repeatability of you cuts is far more important than precise measurements. If your table legs are intended to be 36", does it make any difference if they are 35-3/4" or 35-1/4"? Not really as long as they are all the same length.

As Mike said, set a stop to force your length to be all the same. AND once that you set the stop, make all the cuts necessary before moving the stop. 

A stop can be almost anything. You can spend extra money for fancy adjustable stops or just screw a piece of 2x4 to the bench top.


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## mrbentontoyou (Aug 3, 2010)

for sneaking up on cuts with the miter saw, i like to lower the blade all the way down without running the saw and flush the workpiece up to the sawplate. hold the workpiece tight, raise the blade and make the cut. do this right and you will be trimming the workpiece very little- equal to the distance the teeth on the blade are offset from the sawplate. 

at the router table, with the right bit (a longish bottom bearing straight bit) you can effectively joint the edges of boards, adjusting the width in small increments. 

test pieces, test cuts and well made jigs are of course standard.

i find that a few good bench planes (for me no's 3,5,7) coupled with a decent front vice, a bench hook and a shooting board are what i turn to most for sneaking up to a desired measurement.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

rrich is onto how I look at things.Theres "precision" vs accuracy.Its a fine line that I would no-doubt mess up any sort of definition.Worth research.The ability to accurately produce parts can be done with fixtures and jigs(which also should be defined/researched,they ARE different).Precision is going to require some pretty good measuiring........and how far you take this is almost limitless.We have Brown & Sharpe gage blocks that are speced into .00001's,used in climate controlled shop environs(they literally are affected by body heat).Which BTW pale in comparison to some of the equip used in modern facility's.BW


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## cheese9988 (Jan 4, 2010)

Precision and repeatability can be used simultaneously.

Accuracy is the ability to produce a product within a limitation.

They are two different things.


A dart board is often used as an example.
A accurate measurement may mean you hit anywhere within the 20s each time, but not necessarily in the same spot.
A precise measurement may mean you can hit within the same triple everytime, but not in the 20s.
An accurate and precise measurement means you can hit both the 20s and the triple ring everytime. (I know I can't :no

The correct way to check for this is to make 10 cuts, measuring each time. Write down each of the numbers and take the standard deviation. Multiply times two, and 95% of your cuts will be within this range of values. This will take into account repeatability and accuracy. Its a watered-down method that is also used in industry.

Hope that helps!


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Just how accurate a cut are you trying to achieve? If you are trying to get that last little RCH (if you do not recognize this acronym please do not ask) then you may be trying to achieve more than is necessary in most instances.

I use MrBenton's method when it has to be right on.

George


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

GeorgeC said:


> Just how accurate a cut are you trying to achieve? If you are trying to get that last little RCH (if you do not recognize this acronym please do not ask) then you may be trying to achieve more than is necessary in most instances.
> 
> I use MrBenton's method when it has to be right on.
> 
> George


 
Picture frames - opposite sides must be absolutely equal. I will usually either use a stop block or do the final mitre on the opposite side mitres by cutting both boards at the same time:icon_smile:


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## EWerner (Oct 14, 2010)

If you're stuck on pencils two things, keep a sharpener handy and second you can make a mark with a marking knife then go over it with a pencil to make more visible. Also invest in some quality rulers with micro-fine guide holes. Remember that you really want go 'gauge' (story board or getting the length directly from the desired spot) instead of measuring (is it 3 1/16" or 3 3/32"???)


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## shelley.sidney (Oct 30, 2010)

39. I'm not very good at that
40. the measurements are accurate and they are very precise(precise usually means a decimal)
41. can't explain by typing (sorry)


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