# How do I know if a cordless drill has more "torque"



## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

OK, I know this is a stupid question to many of you, but I'm a 24 year old female that knows nothing and my father and brother helpless.

I received a 18v Makita cordless drill for Christmas and LOVE it (i did specifically ask for this model) However, I am noticing that it is slightly less powerful than my Dad's which is probably 20 years old, it's a 24v DeWalt.

Mainly I'm building horse jumps which required me to fix 2x4s to 4x4 to prop them to stand up right. I am noticing that I don't get that "pull" together with this drill and I end up with spaces!

I think this drill is a bit more light duty than what my purpose was for it, but I still like it. In the future when I buy my next drill, what do I look for to find something more powerful?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Which model did you get?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Well a 24V drill would naturally have more torque than a 18V drill but over time they have improved drills to give more torque. Probably 20 years ago your dad's 24V had a lot more torque than the 18V drills of the time. 

What would help with the pull up is if you drilled a hole larger than the diameter of the screw in the board you are fastening.


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

For starters, 24v is going to have more bite than an 18v because the extra juice of the battery will allow for a stronger motor in the driver. 

That said, every tradesman I know (and I know a lot) uses 18v stuff. Tool technology has advanced far enough since your dad's drill was made to effectively make it obsolete.

So why does yours not have "the bite?" 

Is yours the compact model? The 1.5ah batteries that come why the lighter drill doesn't have the snot to turn it with the torque it is capable of. The larger 3 and 4ah batteries work much better. 

Have you tried an impact driver for the work you're doing? My Craftsman drill/driver does an okay job driving screws, but the impact driver, using the exact same crappy old NiCad battery, puts it to shame. It won't drill holes, but that's why I have a drill. 

First of all, try to find a Makita impact driver that works with your battery. And next time, look for tools with brushless electric motors. They are better in every way except price (so far).


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Trakappy said:


> OK, I know this is a stupid question to many of you, but I'm a 24 year old female that knows nothing and my father and brother helpless.
> 
> I received a 18v Makita cordless drill for Christmas and LOVE it (i did specifically ask for this model) However, I am noticing that it is slightly less powerful than my Dad's which is probably 20 years old, it's a 24v DeWalt.
> 
> ...


Hi - that sounds like about the same drill I have. Mine is spec'd for about 450 in/lbs of torque which is about 37 ft/lbs. Plenty for most screw applications but I suspect you are using 1/4" or larger lags to attach 2x4 to 4x4 stock. Yes, it is a little light duty for that. If you got the drill as a kit that included the sister impact driver, that would do the job for you. The matching impact driver is rated at 1280 in/lbs (~107 ft/lbs). 
IMHO the impact driver is really the best tool for the job you are attempting. The drill will get you a long ways into it but final tightening will need to be done with a wrench or socket and ratchet.

Incidentally - I disagree with Mort that a 3 ah battery has more "power" than a 1.5 a/h battery. The amp hour rating is strictly a measure of battery capacity, that is time between recharges. Power is still P=IxE or voltage times current. The current draw is fixed by the tool design and the voltage fixed by the battery. This also explains why the 24 V dewalt will have more power than the 18 V Makita.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Another thing to look at is the speed setting on the drill, many have multiple speed settings, the slower the speed the more torque you'll get.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Are you saying that the drill is stalling? If not, then it may be the way you are using the driver. What I mean to say is, sometime when you drive a screw it bottoms on the top piece and leaves a space between the two pieces. Try backing the screw out a bit and re-driving again. It maybe that you are just not holding then together tight enough. If your screws heads are getting stripped allowing the bit to slip it may be best to get some deck screw with star heads, they work much better. In my mind, an 18 volt quality drill should have no trouble doing this job.

Paul


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Another thing to look at is the speed setting on the drill, many have multiple speed settings, the slower the speed the more torque you'll get.


bingo I think. all speculation without knowing the model...

but my 18v dewalt on low speed will jumpstart a V8 I think.... I think it is rated at something like 535 "watts" whatever that computes to.

At the end of the day, if torque is your goal. go with corded. you'll get twice the torque for half the price.


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

jschaben said:


> Incidentally - I disagree with Mort that a 3 ah battery has more "power" than a 1.5 a/h battery. The amp hour rating is strictly a measure of battery capacity, that is time between recharges. Power is still P=IxE or voltage times current. The current draw is fixed by the tool design and the voltage fixed by the battery. This also explains why the 24 V dewalt will have more power than the 18 V Makita.


http://toolguyd.com/cordless-power-tool-faq-what-does-ah-really-mean/



> Summary
> 
> Ah is simply a measure of the total charge capacity of a battery pack. *Higher values can mean longer runtime AND additional power.* Power tools, at least those compatible with both compact and high capacity battery packs, are designed with a current draw ceiling, so you typically won’t see double the power if you pair them with beefier battery packs.


Not trying to start an argument, just trying to prove I'm not crazy. :yes:


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Drills are meant for drilling, not screwing or bolting. Sounds like you need a cordless impact, especially if youre using larger bolts. Impacts usually have 3-4 times the torque of a drill.

And more mah's DOES NOT mean more power, just longer run time. Mort, you may not be crazy but the person youre getting youre info from is.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

1. The higher ratings on batteries is indeed just longer runtime, not more power. 

2. Many drills today are designed for driving as well as drilling. It's all about the size and material of the fastener and base material.

Also, one thing you can do to ensure good clamping force is drill the first hole larger than the second. Then you don't have the threads fighting each other.








An exaggerated illustration


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Most drills these days have a torque setting dial on the front. Do you have it set to the max?

As noted above, drill an oversize hole in the 2x4. 

Keep a bar of soap with you. Coat the threads of the bolt with soap before you start drilling.

Also, as noted above, use the low speed setting.

If the above does not fix the problem then drill a hole in the 4x4 that is the size of the shank of the bolt.

When all else fails ask father/brother for advise. They may not be as helpless as you think. And they would be flattered by your asking.

George


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Another quicker alternative to drilling a pilot hole would be to clamp the two pieces together, then drive your fastener.
I have the grey Makita L-ion 18 volt and that thing would break your wrist if you gave it the chance.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*exactly*



Chamfer said:


> *Drills* are meant for drilling, not screwing or bolting. Sounds like you need a cordless impact, especially if youre using larger bolts. *Impacts *usually have 3-4 times the torque of a drill.
> 
> And more mah's DOES NOT mean more power, just longer run time. Mort, you may not be crazy but the person youre getting youre info from is.


The greater the AH number the longer the battery will perform at top capacity, a 4.0 AH will power longer than 2.0 AH.

The Lithium Ion batteries go great then die abruptly, without warning unlike the older Ni Cads. FYI 

The best advice here is drill your pilot holes first using your new Makita 18 V *drill.* Then, if necessary and it won't always be, drive your screws with a "new" Makita 18V *impact driver*, a different type of tool. Sorry to break the news that you need a new tool, but it ain't all bad. The little 10.8 V Makita drill and impact driver I have are little powerhouses and they are very compact.

When I need to drive a lot of screws like for decking or framing I use either my Dewalt 18 V impact OR my Milwaukee 18 V impact. You should get a 2 battery kit with the new tools and you should already have 2 batteries for your drill. Now you will have 4 batteries total and you should keep them charged. The Milwaukee batteries have a little charge indicator and the Makita may have one also, a handy feature.

About screws:
You will also want to get a box of the Phillips type driver bits containing about 25 fresh bits. If possible, 
AVOID Phillips head screws and use the square head one which actually will stay on the end of the bit when you hold it out horizontally, a GREAT feature. Get a box of the no. 2 square tip bits also. I know I am spending all your money, but this is based on having driven thousands of screws over the years. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-2-Impact-Square-Robertson-Drive-Power-Bits-10pcs-/221415754995

When you show up at the horse barn and pull out all these great tools, the men will all stand back and not say a word OR they will want to come over and help a woman who knows her stuff.... either way is good. :laughing:

BTW although I have corded drills by the basketful, I always reach for the cordless.


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## Masterjer (Nov 6, 2012)

It sounds like the screws are biting into the 2x4 and the 4x4 which isn't allowing them to be drawn together by the act of screwing them together. What type of screws are you using? Don't worry about everyone telling you to buy a new tool (that's a default answer for most of us and is the reason why we all have more tools than we know what to do with). Here are a couple suggestions for using your existing drill:

1. As some noted, drill pilot holes in the 2x4 slightly larger than the screws so the screw will only bite into the 4x4 and draw the boards together tightly. 

2. Use screws that have the last 1.5" with no threads. These are pretty common screws and are designed to do exactly what you want them to do - draw 2 boards together as you tighten the screw. The threads are on the lower portion of the screw and will bite into the 4x4 and no threads remain in the 2x4 to prevent the boards from coming together. 

3. As some have suggested, clamp the boards together and then drive the screws.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Perhaps all she needs is a second cheaper drill to drill the shank holes so the Makita can drive the screws.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*just sayin'....*



Steve Neul said:


> Perhaps all she needs is a second cheaper drill to drill the shank holes so the Makita can drive the screws.


A drill is not a driver, and if you think it will perform the same you have never used a driver, just sayin'.

I used a drill for driving screws for years because I didn't know any different. Then I got an impact driver and it open a whole new world of fastening using long deck or drywall screws. Framing contractors on the job sites today always use a driver, at least the ones I know.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

Offtopid maybe, but a li ion battery has internal resistance, it also has a maximum safe discharge rate. A higher Ahour battery, all else equal, will offer a greater discharge rate.

Does this mean the same drill will perform better with a bigger battery? I doubt it, not by a noticeable amount. I would imagine that the battery is not the limiting factor in a drill (it is probably designed so the motor could never exceed the potential for the weakest possible OEM battery).


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

Here is a link to the one I have:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...-Cordless-Compact-Drill-Kit-XFD01CW/205169875

I work in market research for a firm that specifically researches building materials. We often have contractors come test out products for us, etc, and this was recommended by one of those guys and he let me play with his. So it was at least a semi-educated purchase.

I will avoid drilling pilot holes to the death, I hate that. I'm sure it would fix the problem, but my dad's archaic DeWalt did the job without pilot holes.

I'm using 2.5 and 3 inch exterior deck screws. I don't have them in front of me, so I wouldn't be able to tell you any more specs on them until later tonight. However, they are the same ones that presented no problem with my dad'd 24v DeWalt.

If I could find a 24v cordless drill, I'd buy one, but I did a quick search and was unable to find one. I suppose I can look harder, but I'm not really wanting to rush into buying another right now. If someone could link one to me, that would at least make me feel some sense of relief.

Also, father and brother are indeed useless, I have consulted father and he has helped as much as he can but mostly gets annoyed with me pestering him. Brother has never been handy, he's the kind that pays other to get things done; we can't even get him to help move heavy furniture!

Also, I do have it on its max torque setting, I will have to check the speed though.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*as stated drills rotate .....*

Drills are meant for drilling. An impact driver is meant for driving screws because each bit of rotation is followed by a instantaneous additional "impact" to further drive the screw. That why they work so well.

I am with you on the pilot holes. No need for them with an impact driver.

The old 24 V drill had so much torque it didn't slow down for a stubborn screw even though it was not an impact 
driver.

If you really want to simplify your task, get an impact driver to match your drill so the batteries will interchange. Clamping the boards will help, and I do that all the time..... I use 4 clamps. Two are rests at the proper height, the other 2 are used to clamp the boards together. With an impact driver it will squeeze the board together. When working alone clamps are your best friend. :yes:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the torque setting ...*

The torque setting is a clutch that disengages the chuck from the driving shaft to limit the torque to avoid breaking the drill bit. It does nothing to aid driving a screw. FYI


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

The torque/speed selector is different than the clutch. It's usually a 1/2/3 or high/low setting allow you to choose more speed or more torque.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> A drill is not a driver, and if you think it will perform the same you have never used a driver, just sayin'.
> 
> I used a drill for driving screws for years because I didn't know any different. Then I got an impact driver and it open a whole new world of fastening using long deck or drywall screws. Framing contractors on the job sites today always use a driver, at least the ones I know.


Personally I'm satisfied with a drill. I'm already having to be careful not to or strip the heads or break the screws I'm using with a drill. I wouldn't want any more torque.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

you wont find a 24v drill because 18volt has enough torque to break your wrist. 

the drill linked does have 2 speed settings, so make sure you are in low speed.

If its not pulling together, Im guessing the screw threads are still substantially bedded in the outer plank.

I guess Im wondering if someone else has changed from your prior experience, different screws, different wood, different process. I dont think the drill is the issue, if you got your fathers drill back, I bet it doesnt change anything.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> you wont find a 24v drill because 18volt has enough torque to break your wrist.
> 
> the drill linked does have 2 speed settings, so make sure you are in low speed.
> 
> ...





Dewalt makes all the way up to 36v drills. They're not in home stores but they exist.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

they make 1 36volt hammer drill, true. it is not to install 3" deck screws though 

It produces 750 "unit watts" vs the 450 of a 20volt max.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Correct...just saying drills are made over 20v. Milwaukee I believe does as well, although I haven't looked recently.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*no way*



ryan50hrl said:


> The torque/speed selector is different than the clutch. It's usually a 1/2/3 or high/low setting allow you to choose more speed or *more torque.*


No way. Dang. :furious: The speed setting is just that, HI or Low. It's on the top of the drill , black slider button.The torque setting is near the end of the chuck. It has numbers from 0 or 1 to 19 then locked. Do you own one of these? Are you talking about a drill? Mine are like this:


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> Personally I'm satisfied with a drill. I'm already having to be careful not to or strip the heads or break the screws I'm using with a drill. I wouldn't want any more torque.


I am with you. I do not need another tool. My drill does everything I ask when used properly.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*drills, hammer drills and impacts*

Drills just rotate the bit.
Hammer drills rotate the bit and and an impact to the end of the bit.
An impact rotates the bit and adds an impact to the rotation.

They are not the same.


Hope this helps clarify this discussion. :smile:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I own a very similar dewalt...mines the dc920 which I don't think they make anymore. Adjusting the torque clutch near the chuck limits the amount of torque transferred from the motor to the bit, but does nothing to increase or decrease the torque/speed created prior to the chuck. 

Now the high low (mine has 1,2,3) adjusts the gearing. Setting 1 provides huge torque, but low speed, setting 3 provides low torque, but high speed. On either setting you can limit the torque available with the clutch near the chuck.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*good for you*



GeorgeC said:


> I am with you. I do not need another tool. My drill does everything I ask when used properly.
> 
> George


I will challenge you to a large deck screw down job and I will win by about 2 days, using my impact driver. If it works for you great, but not everyone has the same requiremnt. Just sayin'


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I think this may come down to the selection of fasteners, here are two screws both 3" long, the brown screw has a short shank, the green screw has a 1 1/2" shank, same thickness as a 2 X 4.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Another excellent point...the green screw will tighten better between 2 2x4's any day of the week.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you are correct*

The older models changed speeds using a gear system which does multiply the torque. The newer ones are variable speed which AFAIK, doesn't not increase the torqure. I have both types. 




ryan50hrl said:


> I own a very similar dewalt...mines the dc920 which I don't think they make anymore. Adjusting the torque clutch near the chuck limits the amount of torque transferred from the motor to the bit, but does nothing to increase or decrease the torque/speed created prior to the chuck.
> 
> Now the high low (mine has 1,2,3) adjusts the gearing. Setting 1 provides huge torque, but low speed, setting 3 provides low torque, but high speed. On either setting you can limit the torque available with the clutch near the chuck.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

I am actually quite interested in the impact driver idea. Don't think I'll get one today, but can someone point me in the direction of one that would be interchangeable with my Makita drill? Like use the same battery?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> The older models changed speeds using a gear system which does multiply the torque. The newer ones are variable speed which AFAIK, doesn't not increase the torqure. I have both types.



So right from dewalts website and manuals....from the cheapest (manual text) to the premium 20v. All indicate that the speed setting is a geared transmission. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen a speed switch for a drill, they all have variable speed triggers.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

what is the matching imapct driver to this drill? here's a link to exactly what I have:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...45-_-11210757&cj=true#certona_recommendations


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Trakappy said:


> I am actually quite interested in the impact driver idea. Don't think I'll get one today, but can someone point me in the direction of one that would be interchangeable with my Makita drill? Like use the same battery?



Do you have the model of your drill?


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

My Impact is model BTD142 which came as a kit with my drill. The only place I could find one as a bare tool is here
http://www.heltontool.com/Makita_BTD142_18v_Li_Ion_1_4_Impact_Driver_p/mak-imp-btd142.htm
but I have never dealt with this outfit before. It does use the same battery as your drill and would be cheaper than going to a full 24 Volt system. 
Good Luck


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Trakappy said:


> what is the matching imapct driver to this drill? here's a link to exactly what I have:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...45-_-11210757&cj=true#certona_recommendations





Here you are....a matched set 

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Makita-18-...Compact-Impact-Driver-Kit-LXDT04CW/203331073/


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Here you are....a matched set
> 
> http://m.homedepot.com/p/Makita-18-...Compact-Impact-Driver-Kit-LXDT04CW/203331073/




You may be able to get it cheaper without batteries, but it's always nice to have at least 4 batteries with two tools so you can work while one sets charging.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Trakappy said:


> I am actually quite interested in the impact driver idea. Don't think I'll get one today, but can someone point me in the direction of one that would be interchangeable with my Makita drill? Like use the same battery?


I have the same drill you have, using a green screw as I illustrated above I can bury the head as far as I want in construction grade lumber. 

Two things will happen when the shank is too short, either the bit will strip the socket, which ruins both the screw and most bits or you will twist the head off.

There is a trend here to freely spend other people's money, take all factors into consideration first.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

ok, so upon a few searches following the advice on here, I'm freaking out because there are driver drills, hammer drill, brushless....OMG what does all this mean! 

I just want to have ALL the tools :-(


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

ryan50hrl said:


> Here you are....a matched set
> 
> http://m.homedepot.com/p/Makita-18-...Compact-Impact-Driver-Kit-LXDT04CW/203331073/


I love it its sooooo pretty! Definitely want a home with me


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Ok....first things first. 

You have a compact drill driver. Good for light to medium work drilling holes or driving screws. 

Hammer drills add a hammer in the mechanism that is used for drilling rock or concrete mainly. You don't need a hammer drill for woodworking. 

Brushless units have no brushes in the motor and are therefor more efficient. They will go longer on a charge, but are more expensive. Best use for these are guys on job sites working 10 hour days. 

Your drill is a compact drill, meaning lighter duty than the full size cordless options. It doesn't have as much torque as the big guns.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

i want a "big guns"


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Is it too late to return your purchase and re select? 

You really need something different than what you have.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Is it too late to return your purchase and re select?
> 
> You really need something different than what you have.


Need, not so much, want, that is another story.:icon_smile:


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

I don't know....it came form Home Depot, and they tend to take anything back. But I don't mind keeping it and just buying an additional/better one...maybe I will prefer the one I have for future light duty projects. I could be a tool hoarder.

How do I add a photo in here?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't know that a compact drill driver is the right tool for 3.5 inch screws into construction materials...I think a full size drill driver would do the job better.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Trakappy said:


> I don't know....it came form Home Depot, and they tend to take anything back. But I don't mind keeping it and just buying an additional/better one...maybe I will prefer the one I have for future light duty projects. I could be a tool hoarder.
> 
> 
> 
> How do I add a photo in here?




Well you have a few options. 

1. Keep your drill and make do

2. Keep your drill and buy a matching impact driver 

3. Return your drill and buy a combo kit w/ drill and impact driver 

4. Keep your drill and buy a better combo kit (now you have two drills). 

5. My favorite option, return it all and buy a dewalt combo kit..


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

Which dewalt would you recommend?


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

Did the photo attachment work? Its a picture of one of the jumps I built so you can have a clear idea


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Trakappy said:


> I don't know....it came form Home Depot, and they tend to take anything back. But I don't mind keeping it and just buying an additional/better one...maybe I will prefer the one I have for future light duty projects. I could be a tool hoarder.
> 
> How do I add a photo in here?


To post a photo:
1. Click on Post Reply or Quote to open the post.
2. Click on the paper clip icon next to the smiley face at the top
A menu will come up where you select a picture. Keep the 
picture within the size listed in the chart at the bottom of the
menu. 
3. Then at the right of the menu there is an upload button to click. 
When the file has completed uploading it will be indicated below
the Browse buttons and you are done. 
4. Then at the top right hand corner click on close this window. 
When you are done with your message and submit the reply the
picture will be there.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

If I were buying a combo kit today...this would be the one Id buy. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0052...SY165_QL70&dpPl=1&dpID=51LzwaIMCdL&ref=plSrch


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

ryan50hrl said:


> If I were buying a combo kit today...this would be the one Id buy.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0052...SY165_QL70&dpPl=1&dpID=51LzwaIMCdL&ref=plSrch


but you just told me I didn't need a hammer drill...?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

You don't for what your doing, but it's a switch that turns it on or off...you just won't use it. Dewalt doesn't make this size drill without the hammer option. 

Having a hammer drill, doesn't mean you have to use it in hammer mode. 

I'd buy that one for the battery size included (larger batteries) and power.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

ryan50hrl said:


> You don't for what your doing, but it's a switch that turns it on or off...you just won't use it. Dewalt doesn't make this size drill without the hammer option.
> 
> Having a hammer drill, doesn't mean you have to use it in hammer mode.
> 
> I'd buy that one for the battery size included (larger batteries) and power.


ok thanks! good thing my birthday is in 2 weeks 

I also don't find it that hard to believe I will be drilling through concert or rock sometime soon.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

You can buy the same drill without the hammer, but it costs more outside the combo. And since there isn't really a downside to having it, it's just going to go unused and you'll save a bit of money.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

By the way....Home Depot is 300 and only caries that one online not in store....so order online from amazon to save a bunch of money.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> When you show up at the horse barn and pull out all these great tools, the men will all stand back and not say a word OR they will want to come over and help a woman who knows her stuff.... either way is good. :laughing:


I wonder about this sometimes...I certainly can't call myself a carpenter or woodworker, but my interest in "becoming handy" probably stemmed from my love of horses. First off, horses cost a lot of money, and I started making money by picking out old wood furniture from the trash and refinishing them, then selling them. I also need to build and fix a lot of horse things directly related to owning them (i.e jumps or wood tack racks or trunks, fences etc.) Now it's something I just enjoy doing and seek out different project because I want to.

Do guys appreciate this or would they be weird-ed out?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*men appreciate skilled women*



Trakappy said:


> Do guys appreciate this or would they be weird-ed out?



No way. A good man will respect a woman's skills no matter what they happen to be. ...horsemanship, carpentry, furniture building or restoration. "sometimes" you can tell by the tools brought to the job a level of skill, but not always. I worked with a talented clay modeler who carried all the tool he needed in a milk carton. The rest of us had large tool boxes and even stack ons. I'm a tool junkie so I always had more than the rest, they called me the "toolman".I had tools that no one else knew how or even wanted to use.

Tool skills are not gender specific. :no:


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

FrankC said:


> I think this may come down to the selection of fasteners, here are two screws both 3" long, the brown screw has a short shank, the green screw has a 1 1/2" shank, same thickness as a 2 X 4.


I'll bet that FrankC's option here would solve your problem. I think you can choose between a $7 solution (a new box of screws) or a few-hundred dollar solution (a new drill).

I know I'd surely go buy a new box of screws first. Second, I'd drill a pilot hole, this doesn't take long especially if you plan ahead and drill all of your pilot holes first, then sink all of your screws.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

pweller said:


> I'll bet that FrankC's option here would solve your problem. I think you can choose between a $7 solution (a new box of screws) or a few-hundred dollar solution (a new drill).
> 
> I know I'd surely go buy a new box of screws first. Second, I'd drill a pilot hole, this doesn't take long especially if you plan ahead and drill all of your pilot holes first, then sink all of your screws.



So what do I look for on a box of screws that will help improve this issue?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*square drive or star drive are best*



Trakappy said:


> So what do I look for on a box of screws that will help improve this issue?


Phillips heads are prone to strip out under poor conditions, dull bits, hard wood, not enough down pressure etc.

Square drive or start drive perform much better. You could use these and are stated to not require a pre drill hole:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_323974-1278...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

Trakappy said:


> So what do I look for on a box of screws that will help improve this issue?


Basically, you want to look at where the screw is threaded and where it is not threaded. Like in Frank's photo, you'll probably want the top 1 1/2" unthreaded. This way, there won't be any threads in the 2X4 at all, which is what you want (because a 2X4 is only 1 1/2" thick). You want that area to be smooth, so when the screw is driven all the way in that it will pull the boards together.

_In the screws that you are currently using_, this is basically what is happening when you try and screw a 2x4 onto another board: The screw is making threads in both the upper and the lower board. Now, when the screw is all the way in, there will be probably be a gap between the two boards. However, your screw has threads in both boards. So, the only way it can 'pull' the boards together is to obliterate the threads in the upper board so it can turn a bit more and close the gap. This is what someone else referred to as the 'threads fighting each other'.

This is the point, and the same effect of drilling a pilot hole. You don't want any threads in the upper board, only in the lower one. This is the only way that you can pull two boards together.

Maybe Ryan can draw us another picture, I'm too lazy!! But, his drawing does illustrate the point.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

I understand what I need in a screw, but my question is, is there anything the box would be labeled with to state it has less threading or whatever


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Trakappy said:


> I understand what I need in a screw, but my question is, is there anything the box would be labeled with to state it has less threading or whatever



The box may or may not have any label on it. Here's a crude image of what to look for.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Trakappy said:


> I understand what I need in a screw, but my question is, is there anything the box would be labeled with to state it has less threading or whatever


Your best bet is to buy the screws in bulk, usually cheaper than a packaged product and you can see what you are getting. Home Depot will not carry the bulk stock, you will have a better chance to find them at an independent dealer.

If you are using treated lumber you also need to get screws that are compatable with it.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

I am indeed using treated lumber...and buying them in large bulk quantities is totally fine, I am building these sets in large quantities to sell them.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

What you'll probably run into here are decking screws, are threaded to use a 1 inch board on top, therefor the threads come up higher than you'd want for using a 2x4...thus causing the whole problem.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

Ok so what type of screws have less threading?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Honestly I don't know....your probably going to have to go walk the shelves and see what you can find.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

You will be looking for a green screw as illustrated below, proper style thread and it is meant for treated lumber.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

I would bet my shoe that the screws are the problem... its a darn 3" screw.... you could drive that with a black and decker. Full size hammer drills put in 6" lag bolts. 

Maybe a stronger drill would use the screw to strip out its own pilot hole. But thats not a solution. Get the right screws and all will be well and you can go buy a tool that you DONT already own.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Trakappy said:


> Do guys appreciate this or would they be weird-ed out?


Personally I like women who have some skills other than taking care of their hair or talking on the phone. Creates some independence. 

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*buy a tool?*



bauerbach said:


> Get the right screws and all will be well and you can go buy a tool that you DONT already own.



She don't own an impact "driver" and they are called that for a reason, they drive screws... unless she's gone out and bought one. :no: She owns a drill.

She's in the "business" of makin' these buggers and an impact driver would be a HUGE asset to her. .....just sayin'


She said:
Post 71 I am indeed using treated lumber...and buying them in large bulk quantities is totally fine,* I am building these sets in large quantities to sell them*.


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

Ok guys, I'm gonna go ahead and find a these screws with less threading, but remember that this problem did not happen with my dads old dewalt...and it was the exact same box of screws....if I got a drill that was not compact sometime down the road, would that also resolve the problem?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

It would help....I don't think your drill has the power to these together.....but the screws may very well fix it as well.....


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

I went crying to daddy and he INSISTED the problem is just that I'm doing rough carpentry work and therefore it's due to the imperfections of the lumber... Still doesn't explain why his drill sid a better job... Now I'm Back to my original post ... Wanting a more powerful drill.... And y'all think that anything NOT compact would be a step up?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Daddy's old Dewalt 24 V drill ...*

If it's this one, it's beast.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEWALT-DW00...03808?pt=BI_Hammer_Drills&hash=item462c3cf7c0

It's also a "hammer drill" not an ordinary rotational drill.
It may have a "no hammer" selection which you would use to drive screws. It will drive any screw and just about any length and probably snap off most of them.

So, for the last time do not buy another drill. You need an impact driver. You can use the 18 Volt model the same batteries as the drill you already own.
I have a few impacts in my shop, the red ones are Lithium Ion 18 V Milwaukees. The yellow ones are older 18V NiCad Dewalts. I have driven pails of screws with the Dewalt and boxes with the Milwaukee. Some of the Milwaukees are drills, the others are impact drivers including a 1/2 sq drive and a 3/8" sq drive for mechanics tools and sockets. Sockets are very handy for driving lag bolts.

You can sometimes get a "bare tool" which doesn't include the charger or the batteries for about 1/2 of the kit price.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Something else worth noting when understanding the differences between drills and impacts, given the nature of how an impact physically works theres no 'twisting' to contend with. 

From my experience the downward pressure along with the twisting effect you get with a drill is much much more prone to popping the bit out of whatever type headed screw and stripping it. With the impact you only need apply some downward pressure and not have to deal with the twisting effect of a drill.


Ive used my impact to tighten 1/2" bolts connecting a 6x6 and 4x4 as well as to drive 1/2" Tapcons into masonry. These are tasks no 'drill/driver' could ever do and even more reason to use an impact on smaller screws and such. Driving a deck screw with an impact is almost effortless compared to a drill.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> She don't own an impact "driver" and they are called that for a reason, they drive screws... unless she's gone out and bought one. :no: She owns a drill.
> 
> She's in the "business" of makin' these buggers and an impact driver would be a HUGE asset to her. .....just sayin'
> 
> ...


people went for... ever, until a few years ago, using electric drills. I built a whole deck with a drill. 

are we really saying an 18volt drill cannot turn a 3" screw through a 2x4 to cinch wood together? I have first hand experience that this is not true.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*not at all*

I also have "first hand experience " using a drill to drive screws. There is just a much better way, especially if doing this in "quantity" as you would for a business. And impact drivers, are not a leg an and arm to buy, especially if they will save money and time as in "making these to sell".

Like I stated in a another reply, if it worked for you, great. There is a better way these days. I would not consider building a deck with just a drill. :no: You probably used Phillips head screws.... there is also a better way these days. Square head Robertson or star head screws. There are coated screws these days for treated lumber. None of these things were "common place 15 years ago.

I have probably drilled more holes than anyone on this forum from building 3 sheet metal truck bodies, framing houses, umpteen decks, sheds, hundreds of feet of fences, a garage, all sorts of electrical wiring, and up to 1 1/4" holes in 1/2" steel. And even more I won't mention. First hand experience all..... Check My Photos for examples....just sayin'


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

People went forever using horses to plow fields and transport themselves to the market. Then we invented cars and tractors, which worked much better. People still plow fields with horses, I've seen them. But tractors are better.

In my experience, the only people who aren't sold on impact drivers haven't used them.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

OP is building horse jumps... how many could she possibly build? 10? 20? 30? I mean... I dont think shes cornering the US market here... And she would save... 1 sec per screw? probably not even. and spend $169? Atleast a deck involves a guy driving a few hundred screws in rapid succession... thats not this.

owell, if you guys want to spend her money, and she wants to spend her money, yay for the economy.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Question for Tarakappy. There has been a huge amount of discussion and suggestions on this what I would have thought is a simple topic.

Do you now have an understanding of what you think you should do? Or are you now confused?

George


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

bauerbach said:


> OP is building horse jumps... how many could she possibly build? 10? 20? 30? I mean... I dont think shes cornering the US market here... And she would save... 1 sec per screw? probably not even. and spend $169? Atleast a deck involves a guy driving a few hundred screws in rapid succession... thats not this.
> 
> owell, if you guys want to spend her money, and she wants to spend her money, yay for the economy.


Totally agree, but as you say they all want a bigger hammer. :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I bought a $99.00 Titanium hammer*



bauerbach said:


> OP is building horse jumps... how many could she possibly build? 10? 20? 30? I mean... I dont think shes cornering the US market here... And she would save... 1 sec per screw? probably not even. and spend $169? Atleast a deck involves a guy driving a few hundred screws in rapid succession... thats not this.
> 
> owell, if you guys want to spend her money, and she wants to spend her money, yay for the economy.


I used that $99.00 hammer for more than just one framing project. I never figured my costs per nail, I just loved that dang hammer, so much I bought another one. You can't "assume" a that tool like a impact driver will only be used on just one project.... unless I'm missin' somethin :no:

She never mentioned anything about having a budget, but nothing concerning horses is cheap, not even remotely. She can pass on any tooling costs to her "customers" almost immediately.:yes:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Since she is making a product to sell perhaps using screws is the wrong fastener. It would be a big labor savings to use a framing nailer and ring shank nails.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*assembly vs disassembly vs shipping?*

We don't know if these are "site built" or if they have to be carried elsewhere.... If they are not assembled it will much easier to truck them around. 

I would love to see the design of one of these to see how the joints are constructed also. Maybe a bolt would be a better fastener? How sturdy are they? Could a horse be injured if they hit one or do they self destruct? Usually the horizontal is not securely fastened, so it just gets bumped off the far side, so that no animal or person is harmed in the process. :no:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Since she is making a product to sell perhaps using screws is the wrong fastener. It would be a big labor savings to use a framing nailer and ring shank nails.


That would be great if she has a nailer and compressor, would have to sell quite a few to break even otherwise.:icon_smile:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*OK, the thread said....*



Trakappy said:


> *
> In the future when I buy my next drill*, what do I look for to find something more powerful?


She's gonna buy a new tool in the future, which is not yet defined, but we may be able help her along. She has a drill, so a new impact driver would not be out of the question. That would be my advice in case someone is reading this thread for the first time. heh heh.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

impact drills perform both functions. 1 tool will do both. Unfortunately she already bought one. If someone is buying new, they should get a dual function tool.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

bauerbach said:


> impact drills perform both functions. 1 tool will do both. Unfortunately she already bought one. If someone is buying new, they should get a dual function tool.




I think youre confusing hammer drills with impacts.

They are not the same and do different functions.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*agree with above post*



bauerbach said:


> impact drills perform both functions. 1 tool will do both. Unfortunately she already bought one. If someone is buying new, they should get a dual function tool.


They are called impact drivers, not impact drills.
They don't have a chuck that will hold a round drill and it is not adjustable for different sizes. They are just flat not the same thing.....:no:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeWalt-DCF8...1394295033?pt=Power_Tools&hash=item1e97b5d4f9

see my signature below


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

In fact, with technology like Irwins new 'impact performance' bits, cordless impacts may very well be making the cordless hammer drill extinct. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kurIU2kXZM


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## Trakappy (Nov 2, 2014)

GeorgeC said:


> Question for Tarakappy. There has been a huge amount of discussion and suggestions on this what I would have thought is a simple topic.
> 
> Do you now have an understanding of what you think you should do? Or are you now confused?
> 
> George


Indeed there has been an overwhelming response which I am greatful for! Its good to know there are perhaps several different things I can try. I am not opposed to buying more tools. I certainly don't have money flowing from my ears but i know and am at terms with the fact that there a several more tools I need to buy in order to continue this hobby. I currently only have two, my compact cordless drill, and a badass industrial bench model drill press with a 5 inch stroke that I love like a child; I have loads of tool buying in my future.

People have suggested all kinds of things, but remember that the original inquiry was regarding that my dads drill did the job better than my drill...with the same lot of lumber and screws. I could try different fasteners or a different type of tool, but at the end of the day, what I want right now, is a more powerful cordless drill. 

So what do I look for when shopping for a CORDLESS DRILL that will tell me it will have more torque. That is the question here. Those who have suggested answers that stayed true to the original question have suggested higher volts which do exist contrary to the fact I couldn't find one, which at least makes me feel better. And also that it could likely just be that a "compact" model isn't up for the job. 

So once again, I want a new cordless drill. This is a simple project that does not require more, as I have already successfully completed several without any problems with Dads drill; the problem only presented itself when I switched drills. In time, I will go about all kinds of other projects that will require all kinds of different tools...but this one just needs the proper cordless drill, and im not going to be convinced otherwise.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

"So once again, I want a new cordless drill. This is a simple project that does not require more, as I have already successfully completed several without any problems with Dads drill; the problem only presented itself when I switched drills. In time, I will go about all kinds of other projects that will require all kinds of different tools...but this one just needs the proper cordless drill, and im not going to be convinced otherwise."

OK, from now on we will only recommend cordless drills. 

I have the big Craftsman 20 volt Lithium that has never failed to drive a screw into anything that I asked it to. I also have an older 19.2 volt C-3 Craftsman (that now comes in lithium) that has been equally good.

I would not doubt that most, if not all, of the top of the line drills from any of the major manufacturers would do what you ask.

George


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You might get a drill with more torque but I bet you will still have trouble. When driving screws you have to put a lot of pressure on the drill to keep the tip from slipping. I don't have any problem with my 18V drill however my wife or adult son can't drive screws without stripping the head of the bit and screws. It's necessary for them to drill a hole for the screw first. You might keep the Makita drill to drill holes for the screws and get you a bigger drill or driver to put the screws in.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Exactly!*



Steve Neul said:


> You might get a drill with more torque but I bet you will still have trouble. When driving screws you have to put a lot of pressure on the drill to keep the tip from slipping. I don't have any problem with my 18V drill however my wife or adult son can't drive screws without stripping the head of the bit and screws. It's necessary for them to drill a hole for the screw first.You might keep the Makita drill to drill holes for the screwsand get you a bigger drillor* (impact) driver to put the screws in.*


That would be my advice as well. They don't call them "drivers" because they can operate a motor vehicle... just sayin'


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I realize this is a waste of time as far as the OP is concerned, she wants a bigger drill period.

However I took my Makita "drill" and a 3" deck screw and drove a screw to fasten a 1 1/2" plank to a 4 X 4.

Forgot to stop when head of screw got to surface of plank.


The bit was only 1 1/2" long so chuck bottomed out.


Last photo shows the head of the screw in the 4 X 4 after going through the plank.

Who can recommend a smaller drill so this doesn't happen again.:laughing:


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

just tested it out. only had a 2.5" screw laying around. I was able to drive it straight into the wood without the drill even slowing down. It cinched up the 2nd piece of wood and then it went straight through the outer 2x4 an inch before I ran out of bit.

You guys can keep your impact drivers.

Moral of the story here for me is, dont buy a makita drill I guess.

HAHAHA me and frank did the same thing. same result. Good show man.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Just for the record, if I had to drive a lot of large screws I would use a "driver" because it is the best tool for the job and I have one.
Just saying it is not a requirement and even a Makita "drill" will do the job.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Steve Neul said:


> You might get a drill with more torque but I bet you will still have trouble. When driving screws you have to put a lot of pressure on the drill to keep the tip from slipping. I don't have any problem with my 18V drill however my wife or adult son can't drive screws without stripping the head of the bit and screws. It's necessary for them to drill a hole for the screw first. You might keep the Makita drill to drill holes for the screws and get you a bigger drill or driver to put the screws in.


Very good possibility of this happening. I should have said this in my y post. It is good that Steve pointed it out.

Instead of buying another drill I would first try lubricating the screw threads with something thing like soap.

However, if that does not solve your problem then I would drill pilot holes instead of buying another drill.

George


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

torx or square head screws greatly minimize that anyway.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*for the impact driver doubters*

A deck builder's test of the new impact drivers, and who would drive more screws than a deck builder....:blink:

http://www.deckmagazine.com/tools-and-equipment/tool-test--18-volt-impact-drivers.aspx


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

bauerbach said:


> torx or square head screws greatly minimize that anyway.


Good point.

George


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> A deck builder's test of the new impact drivers, and who would drive more screws than a deck builder....:blink: http://www.deckmagazine.com/tools-and-equipment/tool-test--18-volt-impact-drivers.aspx


An interesting read, but it's over 5 years old. Vast improvements have been made since then.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I know!*



Mort said:


> An interesting read, but it's over 5 years old. Vast improvements have been made since then.


Vast improvements? These were all Lithium Ion powered..I don't know what else unless it's the brushless motors from Bosch and Milwaukee. 


But even back then they were awesome. My Dewalt driver is about 5 years old and still drivin' The new "compact" model is less than a year old. When you look at the torque figures compared to a drill its about 3 to 1.

A Rigid kit includes a "Best in Class Driver"
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...t-Driver-Kit-R9600SB/205336140#specifications


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

I still think the impact drivers are more about getting the lug nut off your car or the lag bolt into a retaining wall post or increasing net revenue by creating a new class of tool that 99% of casual users have no need for.

Most wood screws will strip their head clean off before you ever eclipse the torque of a drill.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*really?*



bauerbach said:


> I still think the* impact drivers are more about getting the lug nut off your car* or the lag bolt into a retaining wall post or increasing net revenue by creating a new class of tool that 99% of casual users have no need for.
> 
> *Most wood screws will strip their head clean *off before you ever eclipse the torque of a drill.



You are using the wrong or cheap screws if that happens and you have the torque limiter set too high.

You don't understand that an impact driver has a 1/4" hex sided spring loaded, quick release chuck meant for driving screws with the proper bit. 
An impact wrench is a different animal, but you *can* get a battery powered one as I have posted, and it has a square post suitable for use with sockets, extensions and other mechanics tools. You would not use it to drive screws, but you can drive lag bolts for sure because a lag bolt has a standard hex head in the common socket sizes, 7/16" 1/2" etc.

You obviously don't own either one or you would indeed know the difference. Post your "opinions" all you want,but I try to stick to subjects I know something about as my signature says:


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

whatever you say, I did my experiment, and so did Frank. Absolute 100% proof that a drill will perform the job that you suggest it cannot. 

Or maybe it can... but it shouldnt? I dont know what your trying to convince me of honestly. Maybe one day Ill figure out what my life has been missing by not owning a... whatever it is you call this magical tool. In the mean time, I have 1 tool that does it all and an extra $150 in my pocket, so I guess ignorance is bliss.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I NEVER said it can't...*



bauerbach said:


> whatever you say, I did my experiment, and so did Frank. Absolute 100% proof that a drill will perform the job that you suggest it cannot.
> 
> Or maybe it can... but it shouldnt? I dont know what your trying to convince me of honestly. Maybe one day Ill figure out what my life has been missing by not owning a... whatever it is you call this magical tool. In the mean time, I have 1 tool that does it all and an extra $150 in my pocket, so I guess ignorance is bliss.



Earlier, I said I used a drill for years before I found there was a better way, the impact driver. I don't care what you use. I care that the OP is a young woman who is lkooking for a *more powerful drill*. I don't recommend that. Too much torque can twist the screws off or painfully twist your wrist, I know that for a fact. This isn't about you, but you continue to make it so. 

Quoting from the deck builder's article:

Few tools are better suited to the special needs of a pro deck builder than a cordless impact driver. It turns deck screws and other fasteners without transferring the stress to your hands, wrists, and forearms the way drills and screwguns can. Impact drivers also have enough torque to drive lags and tighten bolts without the hassle of hoses, cords, and air compressors. It’s a tool I wouldn’t be without.

While our OP is not building decks, the thickness and size of materials used in the horse jumps are the same, 2 X 4's and 4 X 4's. So far as I know there is no harm in recommending a better or different tool to perform an operation, that's what we do here. I own many impact drivers and have lots of experience with them, hence my recommendation. I don't know why you keep objecting to this recommendation since you apparently don't or won't ever own one....DUH?


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

bauerbach said:


> whatever you say, I did my experiment, and so did Frank. Absolute 100% proof that a drill will perform the job that you suggest it cannot.
> 
> Or maybe it can... but it shouldnt? I dont know what your trying to convince me of honestly. Maybe one day Ill figure out what my life has been missing by not owning a... whatever it is you call this magical tool. In the mean time, I have 1 tool that does it all and an extra $150 in my pocket, so I guess ignorance is bliss.


I'm not planning on bashing anyone here, but, I guess if you haven't tried it, don't knock it. 
I used to think about the same as you but one day one of those internet deals came through for a reconditioned deWalt 9.6 volt impact with a battery and charger for around $25. Well, I had a couple of old 9.6 volt dewalt drills laying around that need batteries (these were NiCads BTW) so I figured that the battery was worth the $25 anyway so I sprung for it. Holy Cow.... I was amazed at how fast and how deep the thing would drive a fastener. That and I have been able to get most Phillips drives with rounded drive slots removed. 
Actually, in spite of the higher torque rating, I've broken fewer screw heads off with the impact than I have with the drill. That is why when I did upgrade to 18 V LiOn, I opted for the drill/driver kit. 
Not selling anything, just relating my experience. :smile:


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## Al_Amantea (Dec 30, 2014)

If i were you, i would box up the makita. Drill kit, and send it back to home depot, and then purchase this kit...
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Makita-18-...-_-mobileweb_search_rr-1-_-NA-_-100596872-_-N

This kit includes both the drill and the impact driver. Same drill. Only $60 more. Even though you bought it online, you can return it to their stores..
Apparently, some others responding to this thread have not taken the time to realize that you dont have Dewalt or Milwaukee.

On top of your drill there is a speed selector. Low speed (0-600rpm) is for driving screws and provides more torque. Hi speed (0-1200 rpm) is for drilling. 
Near the chuck on the front of the drill is a clutch that limits the driving depth of screws, and the torque provided regardless of the speed setting. Place this at the highest setting for your current application.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Al_Amantea said:


> If i were you, i would box up the makita. Drill kit, and send it back to home depot, and then purchase this kit...
> 
> *Apparently, some others responding to this thread have not taken the time to realize that you dont have Dewalt or Milwaukee.
> *



Can you quote the post where you found this info? :blink:
This thread as been all but run into the ground.
However, the best advice is to return it and get a 2 tool combo kit. This is a great one and you still have a Makita drill that you like so much. Shouldn't be an issue since you have a 90 return period:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Compact-Combo-Kit-2-Tool-LCT200W/100596872

Here are the specs and as you can see the impact driver has 3X the torque as the drill:
*PRODUCT OVERVIEW*

* Model # LCT200W *

* Internet # 100596872 *



The Makita 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion Cordless 2-Piece Combo Kit is built for the pro-user who requires best in class cordless tools for drilling, driving and fastening in a more compact size. The LCT200W includes a compact and versatile 1/2 in. Driver-Drill, as well as a powerful Impact Driver that weighs only 2.8 lbs. Each tool is powered by Makita’s 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion battery and the ENERGY STAR qualified rapid optimum charger. 
California residents: seeProposition 65 information  


Includes: 18-volt compact 1/2 in. driver-drill (LXFD01CW), 18-volt compact impact driver (LXDT04CW), (2) 18-volt compact lithium-ion battery (BL1815), lithium-ion rapid optimum charger (DC18RC), tool bag (831274-0)
*Variable 2-speed 1/2 in. driver-drill* (0-400 & 0-1,500 RPM) with Makita-built 4-pole motor delivers *480 in. lbs. of max torque *and weighs only 3.3 lbs.


*Variable speed impact driver* (0-2,300 RPM & 0-3,200 IPM) provides *1,420 in. lbs. of maximum* torque and weighs only 2.9 lbs.
This combo kit will solve all your problems. :yes:


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

This thread has a life of it's own. The original poster has not been around for over 2 days.

George


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GeorgeC said:


> This thread has a life of it's own. The original poster has not been around for over 2 days.
> 
> George


I agree, if I was the OP I wouldn't read six pages of comments, mostly repeating the same thing.


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## waho6o9 (Dec 28, 2012)

Clamp it
Pilot the hole
Secure it
Done


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*did you read all 120 posts above?*



waho6o9 said:


> Clamp it
> Pilot the hole
> Secure it
> Done
> ...


Your answer is probably a workable solution, but it does not answer the specific question posted ...How do I know ...etc.

We have about covered this topic "to death" and the OP has probably given up in frustration. She has decided what she intends to do and has posted to that effect.
Thanks for your input regardless.


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