# French Cleat = Nightmare



## PolishX (Jun 24, 2019)

Well I'm 100% novice and my tool box is loading up quick with tools over the years so I watched some videos and thought "Hey I can can be cool and make a french cleat wall. WHAT A NIGHTMARE, after a few weeks I realized I am a guy who hates change, and honestly if I have too many choices I end up making NONE. To be honest its easier for me to build a battery powered drill charging station and just slap that thing to the studs. Am I the only one that just thinks this french cleat thing isn't all its cracked up to be. Also being is super earthquake country it seems like things that can come popping off the cleat might be a problem for me


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Sorry u having problems but a good amount of us went through this at one time or another.
\First off, can you draw a quick sketch or photos of what you have done so far. The sketch can be free hand and sloppy. All we need to see is an end view of how you made the piece that gets screwed to wall and the cabinet piece that will rest on top of it.

Next, when you site everything in place you can screw the 2 pieces together from inside the cabinet. That will prevent it from moving.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Another option for you to the French cleat would be slat wall. I think you would have less trouble with things falling off of that. You just couldn't load the individual brackets down with something very heavy. After all it's made of MDF.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

PolishX said:


> Well I'm 100% novice and my tool box is loading up quick with tools over the years so I watched some videos and thought "Hey I can can be cool and make a french cleat wall. WHAT A NIGHTMARE, after a few weeks I realized I am a guy who hates change, and honestly if I have too many choices I end up making NONE. To be honest its easier for me to build a battery powered drill charging station and just slap that thing to the studs. Am I the only one that just thinks this french cleat thing isn't all its cracked up to be. Also being is super earthquake country it seems like things that can come popping off the cleat might be a problem for me


I am about to launch a French cleat wall of my own. I bought a few boards of maple to try it out.

I'm confused by your unhappiness. Are you saying that you put up the cleats, but now you don't feel like making the gadgets that hang on them? Is it some other problem?

Please add more details, so I don't make the same mistakes. Thanks.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

French cleats sound wonderful, but once you arrange your shop how many times do you plan on rearranging it?

I’m for making cabinets and drawers. They keep your stuff clean and organized. If you plan out your space there are only so many possibilities that will work out. Just pick a plan and build it. Learning to make cabinets and drawers is far more beneficial then learning how to make French cleats.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

I put one up about 4 years ago and it has really come in handy. While I don't have access to the entire run of the French cleat I ran it all the way around the room anyway. The French cleat is attached with two 3 1/2" screws at every stud it crosses. It's stout!

This was right after I installed it (Ferrari red and black :grin and before I built the CNC - 








In use and there's more hanging on it now than in this photo - 








David


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## PolishX (Jun 24, 2019)

Tool Agnostic said:


> I am about to launch a French cleat wall of my own. I bought a few boards of maple to try it out.
> 
> I'm confused by your unhappiness. Are you saying that you put up the cleats, but now you don't feel like making the gadgets that hang on them? Is it some other problem?
> 
> Please add more details, so I don't make the same mistakes. Thanks.


exactly I don't honestly have the skills or desire to build an lego set made out of wood so I can move stuff around my garage because I might "want to". I can follow instructions so building small things like my charging station / drill station and my sanding pad storage rack was great. The idea of having to engineer some mr wizard way to mount stuff so I "might" want to move my garage around just seems annoying to me. 

It's a garage first so when I do projects I pull the car out set stuff up with vacuum for dust and go to work. Break it all down and put it back. At least with projects I can buy or get free plans and follow along and not waste much wood, every time I have tried to build some french cleat thing it just causes me to waste wood and smash it in anger


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*If it doesn't feel right ......Don't do it.*

I don't understand your need to berate an accepted method of hanging stuff that is not permanent. It sounds like a flexible system to me, but what do I know, I'm just a simple guy who likes woodworking, guns, dogs and old trucks.


When the train, ferris wheel, merry go round, etc..... stops, just get off. I've never done French cleats or pegboard, so I'm no expert at either. I just don't like or need either method. I use shelves screwed to the walls at every open wall area. Stuff goes on, stuff comes off. Simple. :vs_cool:


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## PolishX (Jun 24, 2019)

If you think that is berating something well then you and I have had VERY different ideas of what exactly the definition of berate is, anyway back to the point. I asked in the original post if anyone had a similar experience, I was asking A QUESTION. I guess that's frowned upon here, my apology 

I was simply trying to see if anyone else had drank the french cleat koolaid and went back to regular shelves and cabinets. The responses I got from some people who said that they just built cabinets and essentially learned to live with their set up validated my thoughts in my mind. 

In hindsight I think the french cleat FOR ME was a mistake. I like things permanent and not modular so back to cabinets and shelves for me.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I have a failure to understand the idea that some have that wall hanging systems such as French cleats, peg board and other same type systems in any way replace shelves and cabinets. 



I have 24' of floor to ceiling peg board in my garage. It serves an entirely different function than shelves and cabinets which I also have. I prefer peg board because to me it seems much more versatile than the other systems. 



Regardless, I think that every garage, shop could benefit with some type of system that enables them to hang items.


George


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## NoNails (Jun 6, 2016)

I tried the cleats and within a few months, I was back to adding cabinets which in my mind are more organized and secure for my needs.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Can't even conceive a reply to this thread, other than to say welcome to the internet age of instant woodworkers, tradition be damned.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's not a "just one" syytem ....*

You can't make this work with just one item on a short length. It's versatility comes when you make an entire wall, which allows for the flexibility for which it was intended. For one item, you are far better off to attach that right to the wall. I don't think the OP thought this through and that was the reason for his unfavorable impression and the words "nightmare", "lego set", "mr. wizard", "french cleat koolaid" which sounded so much like a "rant" to me. 



It's a system, not a bracket. You have to have the "need" for the changeability as with a growing family, a business, or just be the type that likes to rearrange your stuff. As mentioned by many others, it's easier for them to move stuff around on fixed shelves than to move the attachments means. 



There is one condition where it might be used as a more permanent method of hanging a cabinet. This would be where you are working alone and hanging a large heavy cabinet. All you need do it get the cabinet up high enough on the wall to make the attachment to the cleats and it will basically hang it self. One it's self supporting, you just screw it in at the bottom.


:vs_cool:


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

I hung three shelves to store a lot of stuff that collected on a metal shelf unit. That opened up extra places for more stuff. I also have a 4x8 piece of pegboard. Now...all I need is a four foot section of wall to put it! I do like shelving as things that are not used all the time have a home. I have a locker with 12x12 places that I use for wrenches, drills, sanders, etc. Cabinets would be nice but, again, no wall space. Surprising what you collect in 47 years!


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

how much snark can be hung on a french cleat?


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Seriously, theres nothing wrong with a french cleat wall, and the fact that it didnt work for your particular situation doesnt make it garbage, it just means you shouldve thought things through before diving in with both feet. Berate is a pretty good word to describe what this all is. Theres no kool-aid being drunk, no wizards, no bunch of people trying to force things down peoples throats. Some people like having a french cleat wall with a bunch of tool holders and storage bins and whatnot as their organization method, you dont seem to. Thats not the fault of the cleat, and it doesnt make it worthless, it just means that thinking a project through before getting started on it is a good thing



TomCT2 said:


> how much snark can be hung on a french cleat?


Not enough, apparently, most of it seems to have fallen off the wall and landed on the keyboard


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## Red5hft (Dec 20, 2018)

I recently installed a simple French clear system on one wall of my carriage house/garage/workshop/wood shop. While I don’t plan to move things around much, I have used French cleats to hang cabinets when working solo many times and find it an easy way to hold the cabinet while I secure it to the studs. 

I only plan to attach a sandpaper cabinet (already done), a saw till and a cabinet for my hand planes. But, I found I had room for my rip fence and workmate so that was a bonus. 

Nothing wrong with whatever works for you. Pegboard, French cleats, cabinets, gorilla tape.....whatever makes you happy.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

We used French cleats in our house to hang bulletin boards and such for our kids' papers, pictures, artwork, etc. 


I don't see the the difficulty. 



That being said, as much as I like versatility and modularity and configurability, I don't know how necessary it is in this case. Once you have your arrangement set, there's not a lot of moving around unless you're making a big overhaul. I'd just go with whatever is the easiest, quickest, most efficient.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

This discussion has given me food for thought. I've been considering cleats in my garage. I appreciate the idea of making things interchangeable, based on my personal experiences.

When I moved into my current house 15 years ago, I installed a 4x8 pegboard. All was grand. I had a place to put all my most-used tools, gadgets, pieces and parts. Then over the years my needs and hobbies changed and my garage morphed. The pegboard that served me so well in the beginning, now stands almost empty. My tools have moved to boxes, bins and tool carts, where they are more portable and accessible to me. My work space has also moved from one side to another. Thinking back, would have been better to have french cleats, where I could move my cabinets, boxes and holders as needed? I don't know; I'm just musing.

Two of my main sets of tools, my automotive, and woodworking, are now housed in dedicated rolling tool cabinets. They take up some floor space, but are mobile. I've found this to be a big benefit to this type of storage. On the other hand, my walls are largely bare, and otherwise valuable space goes unused ... maybe? In my mind, french cleats may be the closest thing to rolling carts ... on your walls.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I don't think it will work for your needs .....*

I too have automotive tools in roll arounds. What I do is have separate roll arounds for different categories of tools, like auto wrenches, auto repair body work, air power tools, sheet metal work, tap and dies, screwdrivers and pliers etc. You just learn what tools go in which box and it's pretty simple. I also label them because I can't always remember which drawer has what.


Most of those tools are pretty heavy and don't suit wall hanging. What I have found is narrow shelving works best for small containers of nails and screws, even hand tools like planes:


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

3/4 - 4x8 ply. nails, screws, brackets anywhere you want.
hang a cabinet.
make a shelf.
hard to go KISSier.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2019)

The French Cleat system is a great way to get yourself organized. The mobility of the system alone makes life much easier. With this system you can visualize anything you need (both hardware and tools). With cabinets things just get thrown in them and many times you forget what you have because they become so cluttered and results in you buying items that you may already have. I have French Cleats set up in three different spots in my garage and the basement is next. In winter I migrate much of my project work to the basement. Life is good!


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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

I like the french cleat, it has it's purpose. Example; I made a display case for my wife's collection of Miser Purses, where she wanted to place it was over a china cabinet, she is not that tall and would never reach it to move things around without a stool. The FC was the perfect solution, she lifts it up of off the cleat, does what she wants then buts it back on.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

*Not a Nightmare if you use them properly and understand their use...*



PolishX said:


> Well I'm 100% novice and my tool box is loading up quick with tools over the years so I watched some videos and thought "Hey I can can be cool and make a french cleat wall. WHAT A NIGHTMARE, after a few weeks I realized I am a guy who hates change, and honestly if I have too many choices I end up making NONE....


Hello PolishX,

You post thread here seems to be more about venting (and/or validation seeking?) than looking for feedback or guidance from the more experienced...:blink::huh:...but that's fine :vs_closedeyes: as it is nice sometimes to vent about our understanding of something. As such I will just post once unless you have a question for me that I may be able to help with...



PolishX said:


> exactly I don't honestly have the skills or desire to build an lego set made out of wood so I can move stuff around... The idea of having to engineer some mr wizard way to mount stuff so I "might" want to move my garage around just seems annoying to me...


For a novice and/or the inexperienced in woodworking and organizational applications of a well organized shop...I can understand that perspective.

I can share that this type of "hanging system" (aka cleat...now called a French Cleat for some odd reason...but its not "French" at all and can be found in several cultures well before power tools came about...) has been around for a long time in good application practice and is neither difficult to design, fabricate or used in a full spectrum of applications. Again it is clearly not for you and is (I suppose?) experience and understanding based to see the merit in them.

*Mobility or No Mobility*

This type of hanger system is great for mobility and reorganization...that is most true. That however is not why they are used for the most part. There creation (aka extremely easy to make and apply) and there incredible strength (yes...even in tectonic zones and why you fined them in Japan too) is the primary reason we use them. On the large size for them...I have hung over 1000 pounds so that is not ever an issue...

I have never designed and built a Kitchen or other cabinet system yet that doesn't typically hang on this type of cleat or a version of them...Simply put, for professionals, these are kind of commonplace and generic in nature and application...I'm sorry they didn't work out for you, or that you had difficulty with them...but you seem to be pleased now with what you final choice has been and that's great!:laugh2:


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Allow me to express my appreciation to Jay C., for his reassurance that my upcoming pilot test and future plans for French cleats are not utterly doomed. ;-)


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