# How would you tackle this?



## NLarson801 (May 4, 2016)

I am looking to build a desk that has a board running across the grain of the desk. I was planning on insetting this board into the desktop, but I am worried about wood movement. I would prefer there to be no gaps, but I don't know if that is possible.

The top will be Walnut and the cross piece maybe white oak stained black. I was thinking maybe I could use plywood for this piece, but it has exposed edges and would not look that great. Another option would be to have the leg piece run up past the cross piece covering the edge of plywood.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That approach voilates all the wood movement rules.....*

Not only is it not correct joinery, but in my "humble opinion" it doesn't look very good either. If it was "striking" or "awesome" at first glance then "maybe" it could be worked out some way, but it really ain't either. Now don't take the word of a MFA Industrial Designer with 7 years of University training, 1 year of teaching Design and 30 years at a world automotive Design headquarters....

Ok, back to solving the problem. There's two approaches:
Just build it and hope for the best, who know sometimes you can break a rule or two, but not all of them and still get away with it. Just don't tell Mom.


Then a more reasoned approach would be to set the cross piece into the wide dado, don't glue it except maybe at the very center and use "Z" clips to retain it.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/routing/slidingdovetails

If you have the ability or capabilty, make a sliding dovetail joint which will retain it but still allow for wood expansion in the width. This is the approach I favor. A variation on that would be "T" slots on either side with a corresponding reverse rabbet on the edges of the cross piece. This would be easier to make than a sliding dovetail, using a router with a slotting bit on the main piece and a simple rabbet made on the router table or table saw on the cross piece.

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33035241892.html


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

What ever you do the walnut top will expand one way the cross piece the other so there will be gaps just as there is in breadboard ends. Basically what you have for no better description is a reverse breadboard, so if you can live with a bit of movement use basic breadboard construction.


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## NLarson801 (May 4, 2016)

I like the look of the cross beam personally, but then again I’m not an MFA Industrial Designer with 7 years of University training, 1 year of teaching Design and 30 years at a world automotive Design headquarters. 😉


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## homestd (Aug 24, 2018)

Build it, have tempered glass for the top...don't worry about the gaps.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

You can minimize the potential gaps if you have acclimated the wood to the environment where it will live. I would probably give it a couple of months before the build.


George


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## woodshed (Feb 11, 2020)

I am liking design very much. Liking must be very wrong because I am having no experience MFA Industrial Designer with 7 years of University training, 1 year of teaching Design and 30 years at a world automotive Design headquarters. 

Inset design never working. Using inset is creating big wood movement problems cracking, gaps. But is possible making desk without cracks or gaps. Secret is smart original design idea of legs and oak cross-pieces longer than desktop front to back. Walnut moving front to back. Oak cross pieces moving side to side. 

Idea is using breadboard joinery for attaching separate walnut sides. No inset. Separate walnut sides moving front and back no problem with breadboard joinery. Oak cross pieces movement making all desk wider and narrower. 

Also using breadboard joinery for walnut center. Center walnut movement front to back being hidden by longer oak cross pieces. Challenge is finding best way making strong support for middle walnut from oak cross pieces and oak legs but allowing walnut movement. Many possible solutions. 

Maybe breadboard joinery with adding strips under breadboard joints. Loose screws and washers allowing rotation of strips, maybe screw holes with slots for oak cross piece movement? Like figure 8 fasteners with slots helping with oak cross-piece movement. 

Mr. FrankC being correct about breadboard joinery. Important gluing middles of wood pieces only. Middle gluing holding desk together without gaps. 

Maybe making practice joinery first with scrap pieces for scientific experiments learning what is best working?

Maybe design needing small changes. Maybe walnut sides too large for oak cross pieces supporting them.


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## woodshed (Feb 11, 2020)

New idea. 

Maybe using long strips or board going between oak cross pieces under center walnut adding support underneath. No glue. Center walnut is moving above strips or board. Important attaching strips or board with slot holes and loose screws with washers for allowing oak cross piece movement. Maybe using 2 screw slots on ends instead of 1 for stronger attaching.

Center glue from breadboard joinery is keeping desk from gaps when wood is moving. 

Challenge is making support strips or board strong but invisible. Otherwise spoiling clean design. Maybe cutting extra wide dados for hiding support strips??


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*If you like how it looks then .....*



NLarson801 said:


> I like the look of the cross beam personally, but then again I’m not an MFA Industrial Designer with 7 years of University training, 1 year of teaching Design and 30 years at a world automotive Design headquarters. 😉



That's all that matters. My "opinion" is just mine but it's based on years of Design experience. In your case, you have a dark Walnut brown, a close grained wood, next to black stained Oak, a coarse grained wood. Typically, inlaid or inset woods have contrasting values, that is a lighter and a darker wood. Typically, you don't have two dark colors side by side. Typically, in wood working, you don't mix fine grained surfaces with coarse grained surfaces.


You may find this helpful:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2010/02/11/the-right-way-to-use-contrast


For example a two toned vehicle, typically has a lighter upper and a darker lower:




















But all that having been said, if you like it that's all that matters. :vs_cool:


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## NLarson801 (May 4, 2016)

Maybe you are right. Walnut and black don't ever work together.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I didn't say that .....*

I don't have to be "right" ..... regardless, just stating my opinion. An opinion can't be wrong. Let it go, Ok?



BTW, I have that same chair and ottoman in Walnut and light brown leather. Love it.




NLarson801 said:


> Maybe you are right. Walnut and black don't ever work together.


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## NLarson801 (May 4, 2016)

*NLarson801*



woodshed said:


> I am liking design very much. Liking must be very wrong because I am having no experience MFA Industrial Designer with 7 years of University training, 1 year of teaching Design and 30 years at a world automotive Design headquarters.
> 
> Inset design never working. Using inset is creating big wood movement problems cracking, gaps. But is possible making desk without cracks or gaps. Secret is smart original design idea of legs and oak cross-pieces longer than desktop front to back. Walnut moving front to back. Oak cross pieces moving side to side.
> 
> ...


I am liking the 3 piece top with breadboard joinery method. it would also make the ends of the desk a lot easier to taper as well. I will have to play with this idea.


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## GSXRFanIM (Jan 16, 2019)

After looking at that image I think you might consider building the support legs and joining the center (larger portion) of the table to the legs.
Then join the outer ends to the supports.
Instead of doing an inlay because those legs look like they would be one piece 
Glue up the whole length of the table like it was one piece and then cut the ends off. join to the legs with a solid joinery technique.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

It can be done with solid wood. Double sided bread board. 

Pin in the front instead of the middle!


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## NLarson801 (May 4, 2016)

DrRobert said:


> It can be done with solid wood. Double sided bread board.
> 
> Pin in the front instead of the middle!


Why in the front? I was thinking pin in the middle and then maybe figure 8 style fasteners in the front and back? Would it keep the front edge flush?


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

A pin in the front will keep the front edge even, any difference due to movement will be at back where it doesn't show.


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## NLarson801 (May 4, 2016)

Would you guys recommend putting the tongues on the walnut pieces or on the black ones? I don't know that it matters and I would end up using less material if I did it with the black pieces.


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

If I’m understanding your question correctly, the tenons need to be in the end grain; the mortises in the long grain. Just as you have pictured.


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