# Opinion: How would you handle



## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

Lot's of you here that do this for a living so curious how you would handle this situation. I've included a couple of photos to help.

But the gist is I am building and installing a built in cabinet between to walls. Note that in the picture the cabinet is just test fit. Once installed it will slide back about 2" and go between walls. The Toe kick has a decorative tapered foot detail to make the cabinet look like a piece of furniture. The toe kick it's self will be a piece of white oak to match the floor and help with the illusion.

The problem is on on side I will be wrapping my baseboard around. The base cap will dead end into the face frame.. No prob. But the lower section of base will go under the face frame and dead end into the foot detail. My choices are to either:


1. Scoot the lft foot toward the center of the cabinet so the base can clear behind. Problem with this is the foot position will now not match the opposite foot. The opposite foot cant' be scooted because no baseboard is coming in on that side.

-or-

2. I could have the base dead end into the foot as it will into the face frame. Now the feet are even on either side but 3/4 of the foot (which is only 1.75" at bottom) will be covered by the baseboard. 

Welcome suggestions and opinions.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

or, don't apply the baseboard on the left inside wall. end it on the front wall with a mitered return. if you don't install base on the right, you can leave it off the left. just maybe a shoe mould on the floor to cover wall/floor crack.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

TimPa said:


> or, don't apply the baseboard on the left inside wall. end it on the front wall with a mitered return. if you don't install base on the right, you can leave it off the left. just maybe a shoe mould on the floor to cover wall/floor crack.


Not a bad suggestion at all. I will certainly consider that. Thanks!

Anyone else???


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## Marcol (Jan 18, 2013)

Seems that ending the base board against the foot detail would not look natural as that would not be the case with a freely movable piece of furniture. Ending the baseboard short as suggested makes sense or, gasp... don't add the foot detail. Seems that only us woodworkers (if I may humbly include myself) notice those exquisite details.

On second thought, it looks like the left wall is narrow. If that's the case, Maybe a quarter round on the front left wall and left cabinet side will do the trick. Bevel the quarter round just shy of the foot detail. No base board.

Nice looking cabinet by the way. What are you planning to use for the top?


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## Marcol (Jan 18, 2013)

Looking at the picture again, the wall seems to look fine without anything at all. Maybe all you need is some touch up paint and a little wood-colored caulk.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

Marcol said:


> Seems that ending the base board against the foot detail would not look natural as that would not be the case with a freely movable piece of furniture. Ending the baseboard short as suggested makes sense or, gasp... don't add the foot detail. Seems that only us woodworkers (if I may humbly include myself) notice those exquisite details.
> 
> On second thought, it looks like the left wall is narrow. If that's the case, Maybe a quarter round on the front left wall and left cabinet side will do the trick. Bevel the quarter round just shy of the foot detail. No base board.
> 
> Nice looking cabinet by the way. What are you planning to use for the top?


Thanks. I think I'm going to need a baseboard. But I may end it with the mitered return and use a shoe or quarter round into the leg.

I could leave the leg out but I really like that detail. And I already have the legs and toe kick made and finished. So I'm committed.

The top is going to be some reclaimed pine that was sheething pulled off my house when the addition was done. I have a build thread here: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/built-project-build-thread-48369/ With a lot more pics if you're interested.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

A couple of thoughts. Built ins or inset cabinets don't usually have decorative legs. I can't tell from the picture if the face of the rock is on the same frontal plane as the left wall. But, I would return the base on the left and have it end (butt) against the toe kick, and dead end the base on the right to start at the front and butt to the toe kick as on the left. If that isn't done on the right it may look unfinished. That could be the end of it.

Or, if you are bent on the legs, just apply them at both ends and they will be spaced evenly.









 







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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> A couple of thoughts. Built ins or inset cabinets don't usually have decorative legs. I can't tell from the picture if the face of the rock is on the same frontal plane as the left wall. But, I would return the base on the left and have it end (butt) against the toe kick, and dead end the base on the right to start at the front and butt to the toe kick as on the left. If that isn't done on the right it may look unfinished. That could be the end of it.
> 
> Or, if you are bent on the legs, just apply them at both ends and they will be spaced evenly.
> 
> ...


To answer your question, the face of the stone is not on the same plane as the face of the left wall. It's set about 1" further back. I don't think I can do ANY base on the right as there would be almost nothing to apply it to. The face frame of the cab will set back so that only the stone is exposed beyond it on the right.

Conversly, I will have the same problem on the cabinet going in to the right of the Fireplace. No baseboard on left for that one, but baseboard running in perpedicular on the right. See larger picture. There is a door in front of that green carpet on the right. So there will be about an 18" piece of base running from the door casing toward the built in on the right side of the right hand cabinet.

And yes... I kinda bent on the legs although I won't put them in if I'm convinced it'll look like crap. Trying to find a way make it work.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

LearnByDoing said:


> To answer your question, the face of the stone is not on the same plane as the face of the left wall. It's set about 1" further back. I don't think I can do ANY base on the right as there would be almost nothing to apply it to. The face frame of the cab will set back so that only the stone is exposed beyond it on the right.
> 
> Conversly, I will have the same problem on the cabinet going in to the right of the Fireplace. No baseboard on left for that one, but baseboard running in perpedicular on the right. See larger picture. There is a door in front of that green carpet on the right. So there will be about an 18" piece of base running from the door casing toward the built in on the right side of the right hand cabinet.
> 
> And yes... I kinda bent on the legs although I won't put them in if I'm convinced it'll look like crap. Trying to find a way make it work.


You could do a mock up just to see. The base I suggested could just have a 45° bevel on the end at the front of the stone. Once those sections are in place they won't move on their own. You could just use a dab of Liquid Nail on the back.









 







.


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## windygorge (Feb 20, 2013)

Get rid of the toekick detail. Problem solved. Unless I'm seeing this wrong


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

windygorge said:


> Get rid of the toekick detail. Problem solved. Unless I'm seeing this wrong


Great idea... Or I could get rid of the whole cabinet and just run baseboard. Sorry, don't mean to be smart but I realize I could leave the whole thing off. I'm trying to figure out how to make it work because I like the look.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

LearnByDoing said:


> Great idea... Or I could get rid of the whole cabinet and just run baseboard. Sorry, don't mean to be smart but I realize I could leave the whole thing off. I'm trying to figure out how to make it work because I like the look.


I think Windy is right on. You want it to look like furniture, install the legs and not the toe kick.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

Nice room, is that second floor?


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## rrbell (Oct 22, 2012)

Can you move the legs in a couple of inches? Legs often are not lined up on the corners. Spacing would still be off with the baseboard but I think it would look better. The other options would look kind of odd. In fact I think if you got some nice turned round legs and split them it might look pretty good that way.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

SeanStuart said:


> I think Windy is right on. You want it to look like furniture, install the legs and not the toe kick.


Thanks, I guess I didn't understand the suggestion. That is a possibility although I like the utility of a toe kick. But the other issue as I pointed out is that the cabinet is going to be recessed into that nook buy about 2". So toe kick or not, I still have to figure out how best to apply the baseboard.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

rrbell said:


> Can you move the legs in a couple of inches? Legs often are not lined up on the corners. Spacing would still be off with the baseboard but I think it would look better. The other options would look kind of odd. In fact I think if you got some nice turned round legs and split them it might look pretty good that way.


This is definitely an option. In fact. I plan on "playing aroung" with the pieces before final install to see what it looks like and this is something I want to try. I already fab'd the tapered foot so I'm going with that. But cutting a turned bunn foot would also look cool.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

SeanStuart said:


> Nice room, is that second floor?


No, it's my first floor family room. But it's above my walkout basement. It's a great room. I can't wait to get the built-ins installed. Just looking for more time to work on them.


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## rrbell (Oct 22, 2012)

Good luck, I'm sure it will look good, looks great so far!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

You've gotten a few options that could work. However it comes down to what your happy with.

I run into options like this occasionally and no matter if its the wife or any one of my uncles that are in the trade, someone usually says something like this. "It's such a small area no one will notice and if they do so what if your happy with it. I also usually hear that people don't walk in looking at stuff like that. ". My response is I do walk in and look at the craftsmanship of everything in a house so I would probably notice it. :laughing: seriously though find what your happy with because it really is a small area that may never be noticed by anyone. Unless I visit. :laughing:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I would put a toekick on it even if you put a decorative legs on it. It will be nearly impossible to keep the floor clean. You could paint the toekick black so it really doesn't show up. 

I'm puzzled with the depth of the cabinet. I normally make the cabinet to where it recesses at least an inch from the corner of the rock. That way the counter top doesn't protrude past the wall. With what you have the counter top will protrude past the stone.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I would put a toekick on it even if you put a decorative legs on it. It will be nearly impossible to keep the floor clean. You could paint the toekick black so it really doesn't show up.
> 
> I'm puzzled with the depth of the cabinet. I normally make the cabinet to where it recesses at least an inch from the corner of the rock. That way the counter top doesn't protrude past the wall. With what you have the counter top will protrude past the stone.


Steve, thanks. I plan to recess the cab. It is not at it's final depth and the counter top will not protrude past the stone. The plan is for the toe kick behind the legs to be made of white oak to match the floor. So it will give the illusion of being open while not being open.


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## windygorge (Feb 20, 2013)

Seems if you do to one side you need to do to the other. Meaning, if you base the one side, you will need to base the other. You will have exposed sheetrock if you don't. Whether it's a short piece, shouldn't matter. Either that or stop your base at the corner and finish with quarter round to the leg and same with other side, stone to leg. The only problem with that is, is if you plan to match cabinet opposite side of fireplace, you have a long wall instead of corner, which you would need to run base to cabinet. Geez Louise man! My head hurts... just run base on both sides, move both legs in 3/4" and be done with it. On the stone side cut a return at the sheetrock.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

windygorge said:


> Seems if you do to one side you need to do to the other. Meaning, if you base the one side, you will need to base the other. You will have exposed sheetrock if you don't. Whether it's a short piece, shouldn't matter. Either that or stop your base at the corner and finish with quarter round to the leg and same with other side, stone to leg. The only problem with that is, is if you plan to match cabinet opposite side of fireplace, you have a long wall instead of corner, which you would need to run base to cabinet. Geez Louise man! My head hurts... just run base on both sides, move both legs in 3/4" and be done with it. On the stone side cut a return at the sheetrock.


LOL! now you feel my pain. Yes, your suggestion is the most likely one. In the end I'll play with a few different layouts and then choose the one I like the best. But I don't always think of all the options so I welcome the suggestions.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

If I am understanding you correctly, you want legs, and a toe kick behind the legs. To me that just sounds like it would look weird (ie - confusing)

I think you can't have it both ways: it is EITHER a piece of furniture (with legs), OR a built in (with a toe-kick).

Having some hybrid thing would look like you couldn't decide what it is.

If you are dead set on having legs, then go all the way and put legs on it and make it moveable so you can do what you should be able to do with furniture: move it.

So, what is it: furniture or a built in? Make a decision and go with it.

If I were doing it, I'd lose the legs and make it a true built in with a toe kick. And I'd leave it there if I were to ever sell the house and move.

Just my $0.02.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> If I am understanding you correctly, you want legs, and a toe kick behind the legs. To me that just sounds like it would look weird (ie - confusing)
> 
> I think you can't have it both ways: it is EITHER a piece of furniture (with legs), OR a built in (with a toe-kick).
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris, I hear you. I would just say you may have missed the fact that the Legs will be painted white like the cabinet. But the toe kick is clear finished white oak that matches my hardwood floor. The effect is that it looks open under the cabinet but avoids it actually being open where dust and dirt will accumulate.

This is not my invention. I saw this same treatment on a built in done by a master cabinet maker at a friends house. Only difference is it wasn't set in between two walls.

That said, I do appreciate the .02 After all I did ask for opinions.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

While I have been guilty of missing info in the past, I actually didn't miss that info this time.

Regardless of the fact that a master craftsman made one like that or not, I still think it makes it look like you couldn't decide what it is.

But at the end of the day, it is your thing, and you will live with the decsion you make, and your choice. I respect that 100%.

Let us know what you decide. Peace.


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## windygorge (Feb 20, 2013)

Learn, 
I can see how your design will look. I don't see a problem with it looking weird as long as your leg height and depth and distance between kick and leg are appealing. Good luck and keep posting progress


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

Hi All,

I wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I updated my build thread in the project showcase and resolved how to handle this issue.

I installed the base this past weekend and mocked up just about every suggestion. Turns out the one I thought looked best was simply moving the left side foot over to accomodate the base sliding in behind it and leaving it off the fireplace side all together.

Putting a stubby piece of base on the fireplace side looked weird and leaving flush without turning it toward the cabinet didn't look finished to me. The good thing was since the base cabinet is 40" wide the eye really couldn't tell (unless you know to look for it) that the left leg is moved toward the center. Also, my baseboard is only really 5/8th's thick so the foot didn't have to move much.

I know lots of folks thought I should have just left this foot detail off but I really like it. I think it looks much more custome thatn a traditional toe kick. Thanks for all the help!


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## daveinjersey (Feb 27, 2013)

Nice illustration, by the way. Didn't need to be pretty. Lots of posters write text like yours, but include no drawing and get only requests for clarification. You got your problem across to everyone on the first shot.


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## windygorge (Feb 20, 2013)

Oh oh! I got it! How about put a mirror as the toekick. Then your floor will look as if it continues underneath. :thumbsup:


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## Volvo122s (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm sure you are done by now but what I would have done is raise the cabinet what appears to be about half an Inch so it is above the baseboard and then you could just butt your leg up tight to it. Would give it more of a free standing appearance also by not having the base notched to fit it.


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