# Segmented Vessel Help



## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

I have decided to challenge myself to make my first segmented vessel. A vase that will be approximately 12inches tall and 9 1/2 inches in diameter. With fourteen rings including a feature ring. I want to do 12 segments per ring. The material will be maple and cherry. I do not have any software to help with the design so I need a little help. 

I have it drawn out on paper and need to know how to figure the lengths of the segments. I think I have the width down as well as the thickness.

I also want to make an accent ring and need to figure out how to size it properly.

Can anyone help me out? I can post a scan of my drawing if that helps.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I still do it the old fashioned way myself. I draw out the rings on paper along with the segments. I simply measure my drawing. Sure it's off a hair but unless you measure the segments with dial calipers they will be off anyway. I make what I call the depth of the segments (the distance from the inside to outside of vessel) longer than they need to be to help correct for errors such as glue slippage of the rings, the slant of the bowl, etc. 
I'm far better with a drawing board than I am with the computer. I find most software to be difficult to understand and not intuitive to use so I haven't purchased any of the segmented software. I don't make that many segmented pieces. I do have an article coming out in American Woodturner, possibly in April, that explains the process of setting up and testing your segmented ring cutting skills, along with building half ring candleholders.


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

John, I have not drawn out the individual rings. Maybe that is what I am doing wrong. What I have drawn is the vessel from a side view (if that makes sense). Like the software you see. Then trying to figure it out from there.

After about another hour of searching last night I found a formula.[segment length= vessel circumference/number of segments]. not sure but I spent about two hours measuring and doing all the math yesterday. But I am not sure of my accuracy is the reason I am asking for help.


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## Dale W. (Feb 22, 2012)

i use this sight for calculations. look at the right side for link.

http://marleyturned.com/index.php


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## Alan Sweet (Aug 16, 2013)

I agree with John about most software I have seen. I am still very basic in the segmented vessels I build. Some free software that I have found useful at this stage is by Larry Marley (http://marleyturned.com/Shop_Utilities.html). It is primitive but it works for me right now. He does give a tutorial for free also. Hope it helps.


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

Dale W. said:


> i use this sight for calculations. look at the right side for link.
> 
> http://marleyturned.com/index.php


That is exactly what I needed! Thanks!


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

preacherman said:


> I have it drawn out on paper and need to know how to figure the lengths of the segments. I think I have the width down as well as the thickness.
> 
> I also want to make an accent ring and need to figure out how to size it properly.
> 
> Can anyone help me out? I can post a scan of my drawing if that helps.


I have the software Segmented Project Planner. If you post the details on the overall dimensions, wall thickness, etc, I can input into the program and provide the details for cut lengths, etc.


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

Dave Paine said:


> I have the software Segmented Project Planner. If you post the details on the overall dimensions, wall thickness, etc, I can input into the program and provide the details for cut lengths, etc.


Thanks Dave for the offer. I have figured out with the help of the calculator linked above!


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

I use to do it the way John Lucas does it, until I had to do a large staved project using compound angles.

Wrote an Excel program that does all the dimensions and angles for me and that is all I use now. I posted the program in Excel as an attachment to this site, some time ago.


http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/segmented-staved-vessel-calculator-48412/


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

There is a chart that you'll find on a google image search for I think segmented ring calculator. It's blurry and can be hard to read but that's what I use. I just printed it out


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

*Update to this project!!!*

I finally got to working on this turning. Just wanted to say thanks for the help! I'll post some pics a little later this week. But so far I have the cherry milled to thickness, all the boards ripped to width and seven rings cut. I am gluing up the rings in sections and have three rings partially glued up. I finally done that last night.

This project is certainly a challenge to me, but it is working out well. In the end I think it will come out pretty nice.


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

Ok I now have a picture of the project with a little progress. It's getting busy around my house preparing for another little girl. So
I have had very little time to work on this vessel. I have all the rings glued up except my feature ring. Each ring has one side sanded flat by an enormous amount of hand sanding and ready to be glued. I have the top four rings glued to the face plate. My plan is glue the feature ring to top
section, get it roughed turned then start from bottom and meet in middle.
So here is a picture of the vessel just sitting together without the feature ring. I just wanted to see what it is shaping up to look like.


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

I have not had much time to work on this but I am getting closer. Here is a pic of the vase without the feature ring turned to rough shape. The feature ring is finally in clamps and will be added to top section this week. It will be inserted near the top at the turn of the vase.










I also am trying to decide how to finish this. It is made from cherry with some maple in the feature ring. I want to keep the maple as clear as possible without any color change any suggestions for a finish?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Looking good. :thumbsup:

I think the best bet for clear finish is a water based finish.

I have a can of this General Finish Polyacryllic, although I have not used it yet. It is meant to go on clear. I am not sure if it will make the grain look dull and flat though.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000756/2150/PolyAcrylic-Top-Coat-Satin-Quart.aspx

For water based finish I like to use General Finish Endurovar. It will add a very slight colour, but makes the grain shine like oil based.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2081078/30239/general-finishes-endurovar-top-coat-satin-quart.aspx

Lots of wood turners like to use the General Finish Woodturners Finish. I have this and sometimes I can get it to work. Like the other water based finishes, many coats, then when you have built up a decent film, sand smooth then buff.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2083644/35706/General-Finishes-Wood-Turners-Finish-Quart.aspx


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

I have evaluated some water based spray lacquers to compared the results with solvent based lacquer and the difference in color was barely noticeable. However, what was noticeable was that the water based lacquer didn't level out as well and it seemed to raise the fibers. I prefer lacquer over varnish or oil when I want a light finish.


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks for the replies concerning finishing. I experimented with water based poly and like it so that's what I'm going with.
I have the vase all glued up and mostly turned. Still have just a little bit to get the shape finished. Then part of top waste block and clean up the inside at the joint if two halves the sand and finish. Then get the bottom done.


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

Well finally!!! Here is the finished vase. 15 total rings for a total of 289 pieces of maple and cherry. I ended up with a friction polish finish. Thanks for all the help. It's not perfect but as I stated at the beginning it was a challenge to me and I am proud of what I accomplished.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Wow, that is stunning! I also like your choice of finish. How many years have you been doing segmented turning?


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

Bill Boehme said:


> Wow, that is stunning! I also like your choice of finish. How many years have you been doing segmented turning?


Thanks! This is my very first segmented item other than a three piece pen blank.


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## Chevhead (Mar 25, 2014)

Very Nice! :thumbsup:
I am going to try this one day! :sweatdrop:


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## Dopalgangr (Jan 20, 2012)

You should be proud! That's some excellent work. Now you've inspired me to make one. Thanks for sharing your experience.


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