# Birch plywood staining question?



## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

Hello all, I'm making a wall bar for a friend who wants birch with a dark ebony stain. Im new at woodworking but highly motivated and learning fast . I'm using birch plywood and wondering if I should treat the wood before staining. And is spraying better or worse? Lastly, poly or vinyl for the finish? Photo attached

Smokey j


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## BigBull (Feb 10, 2010)

This headboard was made with Birch Ply as the inset board. It's stained with Ebony with only two coats of polly. If this is the look you are wanting then go for it. You can also look at "MY Photos" under my sig to see more pictures.


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## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

That looks great . Did you treat the birch at all before you stained it? . This whole bar is 3/4 " birch . So I want it to be consistent on the color throughout. I heard birch can get blotchy.


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## BigBull (Feb 10, 2010)

No I didn't treat this time. If I were doing a "big" project I think I'd go the extra and pre treat it just to have the peace of mind. Good luck with the project.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

I have (unfortunately) stained thousands of feet of birch ply, and I have never found a reason to pre treat it. In fact in all of my time as a professional finisher I have pre-treated wood exactly one time. The real key is to make sure all of your material is sanded to the same level. 150 is an absolute minimum. Also for future projects it is much much easier to stain a piece like this in pieces where possible prior to assembly. Looks like you pretty much have it assembled now so I wouldn't worry about it. There are several ways to ebonize wood, it sounds like you may not want a pitch black true ebony finish so here is what I would recommend: 

Sand the entire piece to its final grade, then raise the grain using a damp cloth and a spray bottle with water. Allow the surface to dry and hand sand all of the raised grain away. For the truly picky this step can be done twice, after that it accomplishes nothing further. Get a water based ebony stain, I recommend General Finishes. Go to an art store and get a small bottle of India Ink. Mix the India Ink with the stain until you get the desired richness on a sample board. (Always do a sample board.) Whether or not to spray is up to you, if you are very good at spraying then thats going to be easier. Otherwise wipe it. Dont sand between the stain and the finish. I would choose poly or some other varnish for the finish. Shellac is another option, one I rarely choose, but it has its advantages. Get a satin poly.

Think that about covers it. Good luck.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would not do any conditioning on Birch for darker colors. I wouldn't do any grain raising. I would make sure that all surfaces are sanded to the same level...no smoother than 180x. 

I would use an alcohol base (methanol) aniline dye. I wouldn't sand the stain coat. I would sand in between coats with 320x (open coat paper). Topcoat with a film finish...preferably sprayed.












 







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## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

Great information guys thank you. I have actually sanded all the pieces before I assembled it . Next time I will stain before assembling that does sound easier. . I love the raising idea I will try that as I have never tried that. I am still working on the drawers this week.


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## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

Ok I have finally found time to complete the drawer fronts and doors. My first time making something like this so I thought the full overlay hinges would be difficult to mount,but was fairly easy . So we're the drawers as everything was adjustable. Next is the wine rack in the middle . I did not use any datos I don't have a blade but for sure buying one for future projects.


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## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

So my next move is to build a wine rack which I have many options . I could stagger boards or do a lattice type. Any ideas ?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Smokeyjenkins said:


> So my next move is to build a wine rack which I have many options . I could stagger boards or do a lattice type. Any ideas ?


It might be easier to make bottle supports like I did in this wine room below.
.


















 







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## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

That is awesome. Can I see a closer pic the supports ?


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## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

So I went out and bought a stacked dado kit. Unbelievable , chopped up my wine rack frames in one day. First time I ever used a dado. Yee haw. Now to put these in the center portion of the bar. I'm going to dado everything for now on.


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## TylerJones (Dec 4, 2011)

The thrill of those dado's can wear off after a few hundred. This was my last dado'd wine room.


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## Smokeyjenkins (Dec 6, 2011)

The wife and I are super impressed. I especially like the slide in racks with boards on both sides of the bottle. Also the lights in the center sections are great. 

I have attached pics of the wine rack set in place but not secured. I will stain before installing the racks.


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## mtbdudex (Sep 3, 2014)

TylerJones said:


> I have (unfortunately) stained thousands of feet of birch ply, and I have never found a reason to pre treat it. In fact in all of my time as a professional finisher I have pre-treated wood exactly one time. The real key is to make sure all of your material is sanded to the same level. 150 is an absolute minimum. Also for future projects it is much much easier to stain a piece like this in pieces where possible prior to assembly. Looks like you pretty much have it assembled now so I wouldn't worry about it. There are several ways to ebonize wood, it sounds like you may not want a pitch black true ebony finish so here is what I would recommend:
> 
> Sand the entire piece to its final grade, then raise the grain using a damp cloth and a spray bottle with water. Allow the surface to dry and hand sand all of the raised grain away. For the truly picky this step can be done twice, after that it accomplishes nothing further. Get a water based ebony stain, I recommend General Finishes. Go to an art store and get a small bottle of India Ink. Mix the India Ink with the stain until you get the desired richness on a sample board. (Always do a sample board.) Whether or not to spray is up to you, if you are very good at spraying then thats going to be easier. Otherwise wipe it. Dont sand between the stain and the finish. I would choose poly or some other varnish for the finish. Shellac is another option, one I rarely choose, but it has its advantages. Get a satin poly.
> 
> Think that about covers it. Good luck.





cabinetman said:


> ​ I would not do any conditioning on Birch for darker colors. I wouldn't do any grain raising. I would make sure that all surfaces are sanded to the same level...no smoother than 180x.
> 
> I would use an alcohol base (methanol) aniline dye. I wouldn't sand the stain coat. I would sand in between coats with 320x (open coat paper). Topcoat with a film finish...preferably sprayed.
> 
> ...


A google search on "how to stain baltic birch" this thread came up as #2 hit..
I'm making speaker boxes using 1/2" baltic birch, they are going in my family room, since a log home I'm staining them onyx.
(any other shade of wood gets lost in the log itself)
They are replacing the 1996 era Atlantic Technology system 350's, which are also black veneer. 









Here is where I'm at:
1) I've got the boxes built, but the front baffle is not attached yet
2) I've stained the box onyx (more on that later)
3) I plan on painting the MDF baffle black

Box built and baffle glue edges taped so glue joint will still adhere:









These were sanded to 220 with a 4" flat sander, then I used 400 grit with hand block in grain direction.

I did put per-conditioner on









Here is 1st coat of black onyx, I used minwax which is water based...


















and close up showing the grain showing









The stain pretty much soaked up, there really was no excess o wipe up, however upon drying looked un-even so this morning I put a second coat of onyx on.

Q's:
a) Even though I sanded it 220 then 400 then wood now feels "rough"....is that ok? 
b) I have poly in satin, I plan on using that as topcoat, should I put that on the stain in it's "as is rough state" or hit it first with 400 or 600 grit?
c) Can you stain MDF? Or should I stick with painting it black? The whole reason I did not glue the baffle on is I am under impression you should not stain MDF, hence my 2-step process.

For reference here is the MDF baffle in a test fit, and 2 possible grilles


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## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

You can stain MDF but you need to seal it first. I can't remember the exact chemical used but MDF is extremely porous and soaks up finishes like a sponge so you have grease it (That's not the checmical that's just the slang we use for it) then prime it, then paint it... In your case you would stain it after you grease it then topcoat it with whatever you please.


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## mtbdudex (Sep 3, 2014)

Thx for fast response, so it can't just follow the same process as the baltic birch, so doing it in 2-steps is correct method.

I've made subwoofers and primed them then painted black, so I'll do that instead of using the stain.
My Primed and painted 12" ported sub in 4 cu ft MDF box...
















On the "rough feel" of the onyx stain baltic birch is there some concern with that?


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## aaronhl (Jun 2, 2011)

Yea with a cabinet like that my preference is to sand and stain before glue up. That way you can get an even stain (no blotches in the corners) and glue over prestained wood can ruin the look of your project. Even finger prints with glue on your hands or runs off can hurt the look. I try to prestain even on pieces that will be on the outside of a glue joint in case even glue on the table hits it


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## herrwood (Mar 23, 2014)

A lot of good replies about all I can add is I would use a Gel stain on it


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## mtbdudex (Sep 3, 2014)

Status:
I did 2 coats using the water based onyx from minwax.
I did NOT sand in between coats, it turned out very well









Now, I'm applying water based poly (since I already own it).
I sanded the stained box just so lightly with 400 grit - it did get rid of those rough grains sticking up, wiped with slight damp cloth.
Put 1 coat poly on last night, this morning just light sand with 400 grit, wipe and applied 2nd coat of poly.
I'll check tonight, if looks good after 2 coats of poly I'm done.


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## andrew.whicker (Sep 28, 2016)

I also found this thread from Google searches.

Is there a different final coat than poly that people use for birch plywood? I'm making something for a high traffic area and I'd like the ability to repair. 

It is a bar top for a coffee shop. Think laptops, cold and hot drinks, simple foods, etc.

Thanks and cheers!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you want something easy to repair I would use lacquer. Lacquer is a finish that will melt into the old finish. There are different types of lacquer and for what you are doing I would use a pre-catalyzed lacquer. It's more water resistant than the lacquer in the box stores which is a type known as nitrocellulose lacquer.


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## andrew.whicker (Sep 28, 2016)

Can I stain and then use tung oil?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Yes you could stain and use tung oil however in order for tung oil to be water resistant it would take a number of coats and tung oil is a very slow drying finish. It may take a week or more between coats with tung oil. The best way to tell if a coat of tung oil is dry enough for another coat is to briskly rub the finish with a clean dry cloth and smell it. When there is no tung oil smell it's ready.


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## andrew.whicker (Sep 28, 2016)

Interesting. I've been coating all my stuff so far with tung oil. I use a very thin coat and apply every few hours.

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