# Why Are There Perpendicular Lines After Staining?



## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi there, Everyone:

As I mentioned in another thread, I am using some cheap home depot wood for shelving.

After I stain the wood with minwax water based stain (I sand with 220 grit sandpaper and prestain first), I noticed that there are MANY perpendicular lines that appear in the wood.

These lines run the width of the wood and are about as wide as a straw or a very narrow pen.

(What I mean is that they run from side to side, across the grain - not with it - and appear over almost the entire length of the board.)

I did not notice them BEFORE staining the wood, and I looked at it pretty carefully before staining.

They AREN'T divets. The surface is level, so they aren't grooves in the wood.

They look like they were created by a machine because they are equal in width and uniformly spaced.

The first thing that I could think of is that maybe when home depot dries the wood, they lay it on a metal grate with small bars that run across the grain, and that the wood is dried unevenly (and thus the stain gets absorbed unevenly).

Thanks in advance. Any help on how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I suspect that these are milling marks in the cheap wood.

They would also probably show is a low level(read angle) light played at a low angle on the wood.
George


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi there, George:

Thanks for the reply.

I thought they might be milling marks, too. The only thing is they seem very uniform and precise, so I thought they might be a little too precise to be milling marks...

But I will double check next time I buy some using the reading angle you mentioned.

Is there anything that can be done about them that DOESN'T involve having to sand the boards down so much that you get past the milling marks?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It sounds to me like they are planer marks also. The only way you are going to get rid of them is more aggressive sanding. I sand all wood with a belt sander first to remove these marks then sand with a random orbital sander with 80x paper, then progressive grits until I sand with 180 grit paper last.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Think about how a jointer or planer cuts. The rotating blade ascribes an arc first cutting down and then up in a sort of scooping motion as the boards passes over or under the blades.

As said, if you are concerned about them, you need to be more choosy when selecting your boards. Or, you need to sand them thoroughly to get them flat. You can get a better preview of the surface if you wipe the surface with a rag wetted with mineral spirits or naphtha. This will cause any milling defects to be more visible.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks so much, Steve and Howard;

Wow, did not realize it was going to take so much work to get them to look nice...

No wonder so many people use MDF for their shelving


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Wood4Brains said:


> Thanks so much, Steve and Howard;
> 
> Wow, did not realize it was going to take so much work to get them to look nice...
> 
> No wonder so many people use MDF for their shelving


MDF isn't so much fun either. If you don't throughly sand the edges or tape the edges it will drink up many coats of finish before you can get it sealed. Then the formaldahyde on the surface often has a bad reaction with some finishes and has to be throughly sanded first.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Ah... am thinking of something besides MDF then. Maybe I am thinking of melamine??? I mean the stuff that has the fake wood grain finish to it (like a vinyl or something that is supposed to look like wood).

We have a couple of tables made of that stuff and I swear that one day I am going to get a can or two of spray paint and have at it. To me, that stuff is the opposite of art...


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

When you sanded the wood did you use a belt sander. I have a tabletop belt/ circle sander and when I use the belt to sand boards or wider flat pieces, it leaves perpendicular lines.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Wood4Brains said:


> Ah... am thinking of something besides MDF then. Maybe I am thinking of melamine??? I mean the stuff that has the fake wood grain finish to it (like a vinyl or something that is supposed to look like wood).
> 
> We have a couple of tables made of that stuff and I swear that one day I am going to get a can or two of spray paint and have at it. To me, that stuff is the opposite of art...


That would make a big difference. MDF is Medium Density Fiberboard. It is literally a thick sheet of the brown paper like they make grocery sacks out of. When you cut and shape the edges it absorbs a finish like a sponge. I normally spray two to three coats of finish on the edge before I attempt to finish it normally.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

@ BigJoe:

Unfortunately, I don't have ANY electric sander at all, so I just did a quick hand sanding using a 220 grit sand sponge.

That is probably why I had the problems; I didn't have the tools / patience to sand out any milling marks. Having closely re-examined the wood, it is pretty well grooved after all, so if I am going to continue to use cheap home depot wood, I am probably going to have to invest in some kind of a sander.

What type of sander should I get if I will be working with mostly 2 X 3 posts and 2 X 12 planks?


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

I really like using a random orbital sander. The small hand held sanders with hook and loop pads where the sand paper attaches. They sand wood pretty well and there hard to miss up with.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

All you needed to do before the staining is to sand them with a random orbit sander. Everything should be sanded before finishing. If not to get rid of the mill marks to prevent adhesion problems with the (film type) finish.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

i do alot of my own milling. plainer marks suck. one of the reasons my next shop toy is a drum sander.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Wood4Brains said:


> @ BigJoe:
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't have ANY electric sander at all, so I just did a quick hand sanding using a 220 grit sand sponge.
> 
> ...


You really need both, a belt sander and a random orbital sander. If you are just going to get one, I would get the orbital sander. You can dress down your lumber with an orbital sander by using coarse sandpaper on it. What will happen with the coarse sandpaper is you will take off the mill marks however the sander will leave scratches all over it from the sandpaper. Then you would need is to progressively sand with finer and finer sandpaper to get rid of the scratches the sander made until you sand with 180 grit paper. If you also had a belt sander you would be sanding with coarse sandpaper however the scratches would be running in straight lines with the grain and not as noticeable if you miss some. The orbital sander will make circular scratches in the wood. Using both sanders you would smooth the wood first with a belt sander and then use an orbital sander with finer paper to get rid of the scratches the belt sander made.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

OK, regarding sanders...

Thanks for pointing out that I will probably need at least an orbital sander.

Since I have an electric drill, is there an inexpensive attachment I can use to do the rough sanding first (if there is a lot of material that needs to be heavily sanded) and then go to the finer grits on the orbital sander?

Or would using any sort of a sanding attachment on an electric hand drill be a really bad idea?

Thanks in advance.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

They sell rough grit paper for orbital sanders. I have used as rough as 80 grit. The drill sander would work but I would think it would be easy to dig in the edge or sand unevenly. It's worth a try though.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up about possibly digging into the wood with the drill mounted sanding pad.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

drill attatchment real bad idea. belt sanders not very good idea either, if your not exp with them they can do alot of damage.


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## Deanr (Jul 29, 2011)

If you want a really good all around sander, that can also be used for just about anything including polishing a car, check out the porter cable electric DA sander, like a model number 7424. You can use 5 or 6 inch paper, either PSA or hook and loop. (you just have to have the right pad). A little pricing for a new one but well worth it in the long run.


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

A block of wood wrapped in sandpaper may be more work (lots of elbow grease ), but sanding with the grain of the wood in progressively higher grits of sandpaper works. And, it works now, until you can afford a ROS. Like has been said wetting the surface with mineral spirits will give you a good preview of the wood.


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