# Great gobs of Dust Collection information!



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

I have often linked to the Bill Pentz dust collection site over the years and I have not even begun to totally understand it all ... yet. Briefly, he was taken ill with a severe reaction to woodshop dust which almost made him quit the hobby entirely. He resolved to come up with a better, more efficient way to capture the dust generated in his shop and used all 3 of his degrees in the process. He is very thorough and analytical in his approach and it has resulted in a cyclone of his own design that effectively remove the finest most dangerous dust.

Dust Collection Research - Beginner's Corner
To quote the link under Section B in the Foreward:
OSHA testing shows a few hours in almost all shops that vent inside causes more fine dust exposure than full time large facility workers get in months.
That should get everyone's attention :surprise2: :vs_OMG:

Now, we can't all afford 5 HP motors with 16" impellers and 0.5 micron filters and $3,000 cyclones, BUT we need to understand what we are doing with our limited equipment and how effective it actually is. That thin layer of fine dust you find over the horizontal surfaces including the shop floor is the "evil" stuff and I've tried my best over the years to eliminate it. I don't have any breakthough ideas or I'd have posted them by now. But I'm still trying and experimenting myself with a limited budget.

I highly recommend reading as much of the links to the site as possible for anyone who generates woodworking dust, especially in a garage or basement where it's more confined. If you use a leaf blower or a shop vac on "blow" to strip up and blow out the dust in your garage or shop, make certain to wear the best dust mask you can afford and that it fits your face snuggly and in these days of mask wearing there should be plenty of choices.

More info on the cyclone design and system plans:
Dust Collection Research - Cyclone Plans

As I have often stated a dust collector is really a giant blower, not a sucker. The suction is created when the air is removed/blown from the separator, but that blown air has to pass through as fina filter as possible because it's going right back into the shop air you are
breathing!

Info on blowers:
Dust Collection Research - Blower

:vs_cool:


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Very good. My open air, non-conditioned shop, while not fun 6 mos of the year, is probably much safer than a sealed up, climate controlled.

Regardless, we need to get a habit of wearing dust masks, and respirators, and being aware when working with MDF and some foreign plywood full of formaldehyde glues We are working with toxic materials.

I think a nice big exhaust fan And air filtration is a must for any shop.

That said, I still dream about AC this time of year 😉


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## Mtpisgah (Sep 15, 2018)

My biggest issue has been remembering to connect the DC to the tool I am using. I need to hardpipe it and get auto blast gates.


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## GCTony (Apr 5, 2018)

I just built the Thien dust separator in a couple of hours. It's remarkable how well that simple contraption works on my small 1.5 hp single stage DC. I filled a 32 gal trash can (2/3 full) and got about a cup of fine dust out of my DC bag. 

I also improved my suction by replacing all my store bought blast gates with shop built gates. (cheap store bought ones clog with dust and weren't closing completely) Something like this but I made mine out of 1/4" spandrel panel. 




These simple one day improvements really impacted the performance of my basic system.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

One thing that I've never quite understood is what separates a boat load of dust from just a tiny amount. I've been working without dust collection for far too long and I know that, but when I first bought a vacuum thinking I'd make a dust collection system I very quickly realized that the container fills up WAY TOO FAST to be of much use unless I want to spend nearly all day emptying the vacuum bucket. I'm familiar with the idea of the cyclone but I'm still stuck on trying to figure out what constitutes fine dust from large dust and particle..after all, I can fill a 5 gallon bucket in less than an hour and if I'm using the planer it's a wash. I can spew out more junk in minutes thats not practical to make it worth chasing dust in the first place .. Anyone care to clarify things before my lungs just crap out and kill me?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's about separation!*

If all you have is a shop vac with a catch container, there's not much room for "great gobs" of dust or chips to collect in that. So, many folks tired of emptying the catch barrel, added a separator to catch the larger chunks and chips. it so happens that some separators or so effective that they catch the small stuff also. A cyclone is a "sophisticated" separator and does a great job at catching most particles. The Thein baffle and other similar types sold by Woodcraft use a cyclonic spinning action to allow the larger particles to settle out. 

Depending on your preference, you can build one or buy one. I've tried several types so far, but haven't found a really effective one ....yet. 

If you visit the Pentz site and read about air flow, air speed and CFMs, you'll find that most commercial DC units like Jet, and Grizzly don't have either enough air speed or volume to catch the very fine particles, and so he's designed his own cyclone which he claims does. 

Keep in mind that a vacuum or DC unit is really an air pump which sucks up the dust, separates out the particles and then forces what ever dust that's remaining through a filter, either a bag or a cannister type. As the filters or bags get more dust accumulated on the interior, they loose effiiciency. This is where a cannister filter like the Wynns, with it's greater surface area is best. Large commercial systems use many tall bags or a cyclone to avoid the daily maintenance of shaking the dust down.

If you can, it's even more efficient to just blast the dust laden air outside the shop. However, doing this will create a low pressure inside the shop and it will also remove heated or cooled air as well. 
It may also down draft your exhaust gases from your furnace, a BAD thing!

I have the Jet 1100 DCs, a Jet overhead air filtration system and a Home Depot roof vented exhaust fan and several 6.5 Rigid shop vac. I may use only one, two or all of them, depending on the amount and the duration of dust generation.


This separator is one of the easiest to make and cheap as well:






https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=best+dust+separator+design


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

Fortunately for me, I live in Florida. I don't have to worry about venting air back into my shop. When it's built, I'll be venting the dust collector outside, pulling fresh air in.


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## AJ. (Feb 22, 2012)

Has anybody seen a CV06 cyclone hooked up to a bigger trashcan?

Here's the link








CV06 Mini System - Clear Vue Cyclones


Based on the revolutionary Bill Pentz design, the Clear Vue Cyclones Mini CV06 adds cyclonic separation to any shop vacuum. The inlet size receives a 2 1/4" O.D. vacuum hose – (adapters to other shop vacuum sizes sold separately). With the benefit of extended filter life and uncompromised...




www.clearvuecyclones.com





That system looks good... yet the small bucket would be better on a bigger size.

The video shows a Thiel dust baffle (or is it cyclone?) on a big trash can:





Any thoughts?

Thanks!


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## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

AJ. said:


> Has anybody seen a CV06 cyclone hooked up to a bigger trashcan?


That cyclone along with the other 2" cyclones that are available will work with a larger drum. Just keep in mind that a shop vac can produce a pressure in the range of 400 psf so a large barrel also has to be strong enough to not collapse.

Plastic drums can sometimes deform enough to leak at the cover causing the separation efficiency to suffer. The plastic bucket that HD bundles with the Dustopper has been reported to collapse with some shop vacs.

It can certainly be done but you have to pay attention to the forces involved.


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## WoodyWeekends (Mar 27, 2020)

I have Oneida Dust Deputy (which looks very similar to CV06) and I use it with a 20 gallon Rubbermaid trashcan and I had to make a wooden frame to go inside to stop the can from collapsing. I have a 6.5 hp Ridgid shop vac.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

The video shows a Thiel dust baffle (or is it cyclone?) on a big trash can........

It is NOT a cyclone, but the principle is very similar, swirling the dust laden air around the inside of the unit until the heavier particles drop out from the "force of gravity".
That unit is called a "top hat separator", the generic term or specifically a Thien baffle after the inventor. It's my understanding that a true cyclone will remove smaller particles than a Thien baffle, but I could be wrong on that. Regardless, they are both very effective in keeping most of the dust from clogging the shop vac filter. The Home depot has a 5 gal topper called a "Dust Stop" and I have one attached to my 6.5 16 gal Rigid shop vac for drywall sanding. It remains to be seen how effective it really is because ther's a fair amount of leakage coming from somewhere. My son had it attached the wrong way for the first go around, so after the next session, i'll see how well it works. The price was right at about $45.00 or so. The design of the turbine shape on the top looks well thought out, so I opted to try one. Drywall dust is the worst however, so I'm giving it an unfair test....? 😬


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

The size of the "can" or receptacle under the cyclone/baffle has no effect on the dust collector's ability to vacuum up dust. It is nothing more than a collection container. Bigger can means you don't have to empty it as often.
On the negative side of that is, bigger cans will be heavier when you DO empty them.


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## DKL (Sep 2, 2020)

This is great info, thank you. I keep learning what I don't know as I get deeper and deeper in to this subject. The respirator/ventilation recommendation is starting to seem like a good choice unless I cough up a lot more money for dust collection. I'm trying to be smart about this because my father, who worked in furniture factories as a young man, died of cancer of the pharynx. One can never know what actually caused the cancer, but wood dust was strongly suspected.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

On the subject ... in the (hopefully) near future, they'll be building my shop. One of the first items to go in will be my dust collection system. I'm experimenting with it, and will be showing pictures of my device when I start setting it up.
My question ... as I live in Florida, and I will not be air conditioning the shop, is it okay to just vent the system outside? No filter, just a rain/critter proof vent.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Many home shops do this. I don't because my shop is air conditioned and electrically heated. It would depend on the proximity of neighbors, yards, windows, landscaping and the amount and size of the particles. Would there be a "catch area" where you can clean up any excess accumulation? Could it discharge into a screened bin for cleanout? I wouldn't subject my neighbors to anything that I would find offensive or obnoxious myself or cause them additional maintenance.
The advantage as I understand it, is the absence of any restrictive filter. Remember a DC system is just a large air pump putting the dust laden air under pressure in order to exhaust it through a filter, either bag or a cannister. Having no filter will mean a large increase in efficiency, in my opinion.


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## DKL (Sep 2, 2020)

I like the idea of venting outside, but I too wonder what impact that's going to have on things that breathe downwind of me. Would my backyard begin to look like it had received light snow after a while?


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## WoodyWeekends (Mar 27, 2020)

DKL said:


> I like the idea of venting outside, but I too wonder what impact that's going to have on things that breathe downwind of me. Would my backyard begin to look like it had received light snow after a while?


More like yellow snow. LOL


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

Fortunately, my shop (our property) backs up to a wooded area that surrounds the water pumping station. As far as I can tell, it will be there for as long as we are. The unrestricted airflow is what I am thinking about, too. Should, effectively, supercharge the DC system. I'm not concerned the dust will bother anyone ... but I don't know how loud it's going to be.
I plan on using the H.F. large (2 Hp) impeller system.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

The stock HF impeller is too small according to those who have replaced it with the larger Rikon at about $122 .....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Good thread on dust control!
There's an entirely new concept in dust collection by Oneida called the supercell.
It is 10X more powerful than a typical dust collector.








Supercell High-Pressure Wall Mounted Cyclone Dust Collectors | Oneida Air Systems


The world's first universal dust collector - One machine that does it all! With 10x higher suction power than standard dust collectors, the Supercell is effective with any tool in the shop.




www.oneida-air.com














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