# Denatured Alcohol Replacement



## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

I have been using denatured alcohol for 8 years to clean the final sanding dust from an antique before I stain it. I live in a Canadian city which is a border city to Michigan and have been buying denatured alcohol in Michigan. With the border closed I need a replacement for denatured alcohol since I cannot buy it in Canada.

Any suggestions? Methyl hydrate? Simple mineral spirits?

Thanks for any feedback.

Gary


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Everclear grain alcohol is an option. Some folks prefer it to denatured for making shellac. Available at liquor stores.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Quickstep said:


> Everclear grain alcohol is an option. Some folks prefer it to denatured for making shellac. Available at liquor stores.


Thanks for the quick feedback. I am not finding it listed in our liquor stores. I suspect it would be very expensive.

Gary


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

It is expensive here, but I'm told it's mostly because of the liquor tax. I didn't know if maybe liquor taxes are different there.


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## Bernie_72 (Aug 9, 2020)

Accidental double post.


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## Bernie_72 (Aug 9, 2020)

I use mineral spirits to clean up after sanding and it works well for me. If you're looking for something natural you could check out this citrus solvent. I just started using it to thin tung oil but some people use it as a final cleaning step. It doesn't dry quite as quickly as mineral spirits and it is not the cheapest option but it does smell nice! :smile2:


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Everclear is expensive, had to get some for doing French Polish finish. My go-to for wiping something down is and has been Naphtha for the past 30-40 years. Flashes off quickly and leaves no residue or odor.

David


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Bernie_72 said:


> I use mineral spirits to clean up after sanding and it works well for me. If you're looking for something natural you could check out this citrus solvent. I just started using it to thin tung oil but some people use it as a final cleaning step. It doesn't dry quite as quickly as mineral spirits and it is not the cheapest option but it does smell nice! :smile2:


Thanks, Bernie. I will try mineral spirits since I have lots of that. Citrus solvent is pretty pricey.

Gary


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Everclear is expensive, had to get some for doing French Polish finish. My go-to for wiping something down is and has been Naphtha for the past 30-40 years. Flashes off quickly and leaves no residue or odor.
> 
> David


I can find naphtha locally as Coleman Camp Fuel at $20 / gallon which would be great. The warnings on the can about harmful vapors and being extremely flammable are not comforting. I will try a small can out. I appreciate the advice.

Gary


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Alcoholic beverages are taxed heavily in Canada. If you can buy grain alcohol like Everclear, I bet it is very very expensive.


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## yomanbill (Jul 7, 2020)

If your are just cleaning up sanding dust, mineral spirits works quiet well. What you use should depend on the existing finish and the finish you plan to apply. If the existing finish is shellac, you probably shouldn't use alcohol for cleaning as it will tend to dissolve it. Mineral spirits would be better. If you plan to use a water base material for the final finish, you can clean up sanding dust with a cloth or paper towel dampened with water


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

*Mineral Spirits Substitute*

this new Environmentally Friendly stuff on the market called
Mineral Spirits Substitute is _NOT_ for woodworking projects !!!!
I wouldn't wash my sidewalk with it, much less thin my paint or clean my
brushes with it or on any wood project prior to painting.
use at your own discretion.









.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Naphtha was once described to me as "High Octane" mineral spirits. It is more flammable and evaporates faster. 
I think it cleans brushes more thoroughly and leaves behind less residue than spirits. And most importantly, no longer available where I live!

I don't think Coleman Fuel is Naphtha. I think Coleman Fuel is highly refined gasoline "white gas"


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Fortunately, we can still get Naphtha here in the south. it's about $12 gallon and readily available at local paint stores. The Lowe's website says they no longer sell it but they had it in quarts and gallons a couple of weeks ago.

In all the years I've used it there has not been an issue with flammability - I don't have open fires in the shop and there are no open containers of Naphtha sitting around. If there were it would evaporate in no time.

David


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

BioFlame Ethanol @ CanadianTire & Home Hardware


or, since it's just a wiping fluid that evaporates completely.... isopropyl alcohol, altho that's may also be hard to find as it's used in homemade hand sanitizers....


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

A few comments:

* Very pure alcohol gets diluted over time. It absorbs moisture from the air. The water dissolves in it. 
* Alcohol can raise the grain. It isn't the alcohol, it is the water in it. 
* Denatured Alcohol (DNA) is ethanol with toxins mixed in. Methanol is used or at least included for that purpose. The reason for denaturing is to prevent people from drinking it in order to keep liquor taxation structures in place. 
* I live in Southern California. Denatured alcohol has been banned here for some time as a solvent. You could buy "alcohol stove fuel" in camping stores, the same product. Perhaps @GAF can find it that way in Canada. We can't - about a year ago, denatured alcohol was banned throughout California, even as stove fuel. 
* There are many other woodworking solvents that are also unavailable in California, including mineral spirits, naphtha, and many others.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

Just go to the local drug store (Chemist?) and buy some rubbing alcohol. It is isopropyl alcohol. It is typically 70% maximum but for your purposes the 50% will work just as well. 

And Dave, you have given me a new reason to hate SCAQMD / CARB.


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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

If you have no other options you can use cheese cloth sprayed with shellac as a tack cloth to dust off


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

yomanbill said:


> If your are just cleaning up sanding dust, mineral spirits works quiet well. What you use should depend on the existing finish and the finish you plan to apply. If the existing finish is shellac, you probably shouldn't use alcohol for cleaning as it will tend to dissolve it. Mineral spirits would be better. If you plan to use a water base material for the final finish, you can clean up sanding dust with a cloth or paper towel dampened with water


Some interesting considerations especially regarding water based stain which I use often. Thanks.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

John Smith_inFL said:


> this new Environmentally Friendly stuff on the market called
> Mineral Spirits Substitute is _NOT_ for woodworking projects !!!!
> I wouldn't wash my sidewalk with it, much less my paint brushes
> or any wood project prior to painting.
> ...


I agree, John. I tried this stuff and did not like it.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Quickstep said:


> Naphtha was once described to me as "High Octane" mineral spirits. It is more flammable and evaporates faster.
> I think it cleans brushes more thoroughly and leaves behind less residue than spirits. And most importantly, no longer available where I live!
> 
> I don't think Coleman Fuel is Naphtha. I think Coleman Fuel is highly refined gasoline "white gas"


The Coleman Fuel came up from a search that I did on naphtha. Confusing results I guess.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Fortunately, we can still get Naphtha here in the south. it's about $12 gallon and readily available at local paint stores. The Lowe's website says they no longer sell it but they had it in quarts and gallons a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> In all the years I've used it there has not been an issue with flammability - I don't have open fires in the shop and there are no open containers of Naphtha sitting around. If there were it would evaporate in no time.
> 
> David


Thanks. It looks like I am going to have trouble finding that in Canada too. A search on Amazon.ca brings up nothing useful. Ugh!


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

TomCT2 said:


> BioFlame Ethanol @ CanadianTire & Home Hardware
> 
> 
> or, since it's just a wiping fluid that evaporates completely.... isopropyl alcohol, altho that's may also be hard to find as it's used in homemade hand sanitizers....


You are right about it being hard to find. Amazon.ca shows some options but the price is outrageous at $75 Cdn a gallon.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Tool Agnostic said:


> A few comments:
> 
> * Very pure alcohol gets diluted over time. It absorbs moisture from the air. The water dissolves in it.
> * Alcohol can raise the grain. It isn't the alcohol, it is the water in it.
> ...


Lots to consider. Thanks. Your California rules are so, so tough.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

NoThankyou said:


> Just go to the local drug store (Chemist?) and buy some rubbing alcohol. It is isopropyl alcohol. It is typically 70% maximum but for your purposes the 50% will work just as well.
> 
> And Dave, you have given me a new reason to hate SCAQMD / CARB.


Good idea. I had asked about denatured alcohol at the drug store. Now I have another question to ask them.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I was talking to the owner of my local hardware store when he told me they could no longer sell Naphtha because of VOC regulations. Instead they sell a substitute called “Painters Thinner” which is mostly Acetone. I had always thought of Acetone as being nastier than Naphtha, but I guess not where VOCs are concerned.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Quickstep said:


> I was talking to the owner of my local hardware store when he told me they could no longer sell Naphtha because of VOC regulations. Instead they sell a substitute called “Painters Thinner” which is mostly Acetone. I had always thought of Acetone as being nastier than Naphtha, but I guess not where VOCs are concerned.


This is a mine field. I have been using Sunnyside DNA for years. It has a chemical content of 50% ethanol and 50% methanol. I just received in the mail from Quebec 1 quart of Finico DNA which shows 85% ethanol and 15% methanol. I paid $26 for 1 quart which is ridiculous but I wanted to try it and see if it will work for my final sanding dust cleaning. If I buy in bulk I can get it for $64 a gallon.

Any thoughts on if this will work for me?

Gary


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

Quickstep said:


> I had always thought of Acetone as being nastier than Naphtha, but I guess not where VOCs are concerned.


I am thinking that if the VOC in Buttermilk exceeded the EPA limits, it too would be banned in some states.

I still have a pint of oil based gold leaf size that contains lead. even with the skull and crossbones on the label.
I hope the Paint Police never stops by my home to inspect my paint box !!!
when I hear even a rumor that 100% mineral spirits and Naphtha will be banned in Florida,
I will be stocking up on it for sure.

.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Honestly, even though I can get and use Naphtha, my normal MO for getting rid of dust is just compressed air. I usually wipe things down with Naphtha when I want to see what the wood will look like with a finish.

David


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GAF said:


> I have been using denatured alcohol for 8 years to clean the final sanding dust from an antique before I stain it. I live in a Canadian city which is a border city to Michigan and have been buying denatured alcohol in Michigan. With the border closed I need a replacement for denatured alcohol since I cannot buy it in Canada.
> 
> Any suggestions? Methyl hydrate? Simple mineral spirits?
> 
> ...


Methyl Hydrate is just another name for Methanol or wood alcohol. I don't see any reason you couldn't use it. Mineral spirits on the other hand wouldn't evaporate so fast. It could stay in the wood for several hours and cause the wood not to accept the stain right. Perhaps you still don't have compressed air. I prefer to use a soft bench brush and compressed air to clean wood off before staining.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Methyl Hydrate is just another name for Methanol or wood alcohol. I don't see any reason you couldn't use it. Mineral spirits on the other hand wouldn't evaporate so fast. It could stay in the wood for several hours and cause the wood not to accept the stain right. Perhaps you still don't have compressed air. I prefer to use a soft bench brush and compressed air to clean wood off before staining.


Thanks, Steve. Nice to get your advice again. I will try methyl hydrate. In another comment on this thread I mentioned ... Finico DNA which shows 85% ethanol and 15% methanol. Any comments about how this might work?

Gary


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

I use denatured mostly to check for sanding marks, dings, missed spots . . . .
I'm not normally real happy to find I missed sanding out some tooling marks/ridges/bumps/whatever with the urethane brush.
a tack cloth works well for dust - especially for "interior" spaces where a blast of compressed air simply stirs it up into a different corner.


it also 'brings out the grain' so I can oooh and uuuh in the shop, if I want . . .


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

TomCT2 said:


> I use denatured mostly to check for sanding marks, dings, missed spots . . . .
> I'm not normally real happy to find I missed sanding out some tooling marks/ridges/bumps/whatever with the urethane brush.
> a tack cloth works well for dust - especially for "interior" spaces where a blast of compressed air simply stirs it up into a different corner.
> 
> ...


Tom, those are some good points that I had not considered. I use mineral spirits to demonstrate the impact that top coating will have.

Gary


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

GAF said:


> Thanks, Steve. Nice to get your advice again. I will try methyl hydrate. In another comment on this thread I mentioned ... Finico DNA which shows 85% ethanol and 15% methanol. Any comments about how this might work?
> 
> Gary


Finico DHA is something I've never heard of. Even google doesn't know that one. If all it is is a mixture of ethanol and methanol it should work fine for what you are doing. You just need a solvent that dries very quickly. Otherwise it would water down the stain you apply and make the color lighter than it should.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Finico DHA is something I've never heard of. Even google doesn't know that one. If all it is is a mixture of ethanol and methanol it should work fine for what you are doing. You just need a solvent that dries very quickly. Otherwise it would water down the stain you apply and make the color lighter than it should.


Steve, it is strange when even Google searching does not get a hit. Anyway I tried it this afternoon and it did remove sanding dust. It dried quickly enough but quite as fast as the DNA I have been buying in Michigan. So this might be my new DNA choice till the border opens up again.

I failed to comment more on your initial feedback. I was pretty sure using mineral spirits was not the way to go. I appreciate the explanation why. And the use of air doesn't work in my home workshop environment because it only spreads the dust around.

Thanks again.

Gary


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Here is the information on the Finico DNA:

https://ardec.ca/en/p/35/denatured-alcohol

Steve - it’s good to hear from you!

Tom


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Tom-G said:


> Here is the information on the Finico DNA:
> 
> https://ardec.ca/en/p/35/denatured-alcohol
> 
> ...


I was under the impression denatured alcohol was banned north of the border. It sounds like it's just scarce because it is also a disinfectant. It has been scarce here too. It's just high priced now. My local lumber company has gallons of it for $40.00 a gallon.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> I was under the impression denatured alcohol was banned north of the border. It sounds like it's just scarce because it is also a disinfectant. It has been scarce here too. It's just high priced now. My local lumber company has gallons of it for $40.00 a gallon.



If the border was open I could go to the hardware store in Sault Ste. Marie, MI which is 5 miles away. So frustrating.

Sunnyside Denatured Alcohol Solvent, Gallon
DENATURED ALCOHOLMODEL # 834G1
$101.94 *MULTI-PACK PURCHASE*This is for 6 of the item shown, at $16.99 each.
In-store price may vary from online price. Not all products available at all stores.


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## sunnybob (Sep 3, 2016)

A possibility, seeing as Canada is (was) closely linked to the UK.... Try searching for Methylated Spirits, which is europes name for denatured alcohol. Its usually tinted deep purple as a safety thing, but its great for making shellac with.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

sunnybob said:


> A possibility, seeing as Canada is (was) closely linked to the UK.... Try searching for Methylated Spirits, which is europe's name for denatured alcohol.
> *It's usually tinted deep purple as a safety thing, but its great for making shellac with*.


what do you do with purple shellac ??

.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

sunnybob said:


> A possibility, seeing as Canada is (was) closely linked to the UK.... Try searching for Methylated Spirits, which is europes name for denatured alcohol. Its usually tinted deep purple as a safety thing, but its great for making shellac with.


The search on Amazon.ca brings up denatured alcohol which of course is what I really want. The Canadian prices are unbelievable at $50 A QUART.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

If DNA gets becomes prohibited everywhere, what will people use to make shellac? 

Are the VOCs different in DNA than in Grain Alcohol?


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Currently in stock on Amazon at about $21 / gallon. Note the disclaimer. 

https://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-...ocphy=9051925&hvtargid=pla-593419161794&psc=1


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Tom-G said:


> Currently in stock on Amazon at about $21 / gallon. Note the disclaimer.


There is a note on mine that says, "This item cannot be shipped to your selected delivery location. Please choose a different delivery location." 

Is that the disclaimer you were referring to? I live in So Cal, where DNA is banned, so I am not surprised.


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## Tom-G (Nov 11, 2012)

Oh...... 

This is the disclaimer I was referring to:

“Not intended for sale or use as a thinner“


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Quickstep said:


> Naphtha was once described to me as "High Octane" mineral spirits. It is more flammable and evaporates faster.
> I think it cleans brushes more thoroughly and leaves behind less residue than spirits. And most importantly, no longer available where I live!
> 
> I don't think Coleman Fuel is Naphtha. I think Coleman Fuel is highly refined gasoline "white gas"


I am still trying to solve my denatured alcohol replacement problem. Today when I searched for naphtha the Wikipedia entry showed a picture of Coleman Camp Fuel. And the cans in our local Canadian Tire actually say Camp Fuel / Naphtha.

I need to do more research I guess.


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## Blacklions (Oct 2, 2020)

You might want to check out this video on YouTube: Quick Tips #27 A Cheaper Alternative To Naphtha. He suggests usng "Kinsford orderless lighter fluid." I haven't used it myself but think I might give it a shot on some scrap wood. Target has 32 oz. for less than $4 as compared to Amazon at $15.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

GAF said:


> Thanks, Steve. Nice to get your advice again. I will try methyl hydrate. In another comment on this thread I mentioned ... Finico DNA which shows 85% ethanol and 15% methanol. Any comments about how this might work?
> 
> Gary


Itll work the same as any other stuff. The wood isnt going to care what kind of alcohol you use to wipe it off, be it ethanol, methanol or isopropyl, or a blend in any ratio. Only thing you need to be aware of is methanol is toxic to ingest, and not the nicest thing to have on your skin either. Wear gloves, which you should be doing with any solvent, and make sure you have good ventilation, same reason


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## JoeFromSD (Feb 23, 2015)

I'm in Cali also. I used to use the denatured alcohol to clean up uncured polyurethane glue like Gorilla.


what other solvent cleans this up?


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

Blacklions said:


> You might want to check out this video on YouTube: Quick Tips #27 A Cheaper Alternative To Naphtha. He suggests usng "Kinsford orderless lighter fluid." I haven't used it myself but think I might give it a shot on some scrap wood. Target has 32 oz. for less than $4 as compared to Amazon at $15.


The price is right. Thank you.

Gary


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> Itll work the same as any other stuff. The wood isnt going to care what kind of alcohol you use to wipe it off, be it ethanol, methanol or isopropyl, or a blend in any ratio. Only thing you need to be aware of is methanol is toxic to ingest, and not the nicest thing to have on your skin either. Wear gloves, which you should be doing with any solvent, and make sure you have good ventilation, same reason


Nice feedback ... thanks. I can battle the ingestion ... it's the inhalation that worries me more. I need to ventilate my workshop better.

Gary


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

GAF said:


> Nice feedback ... thanks. I can battle the ingestion ... it's the inhalation that worries me more. I need to ventilate my workshop better.
> 
> Gary


Far as solvents go, alcohol is pretty low on the list of things to worry about. Please note, im not saying dont worry at all, just that theres a lot of difference between alcohol vapors and lacquer thinner vapors. When in doubt, a respirator with organic vapor cartridges works wonders


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Only a trace of purple in Meths. However, restrictions in Scotland as a few meths drinkers there and the methyl alcohol content very toxic and can cause blindness. Problem has been compounded by the solvent "sniffers".
I use it without problems. IMS (Industrial Methylated Spirit) is controlled but a licenced user can use for perfumes etc.
I is colourless. Other spirit products such as Surgical Spirit (Similar to your rubbing alcohol) also abused north of the border. It contains methyl salicylate (Wintergreen). For very expensive perfumes, we would sell Quassin powder and solution as a denaturant. Quassia wood is also known as wormwood and main supplier is Jamaica where it was used for furniture.
Has been replaced by Bitrex, a synthetic product in expensive perfumes.
Pure alcohol is very strictly controlled. We had a "bonded area" where it was used for flavours. In Arab countries we used Light Liquid Paraffin for our popular "Bint" perfume.
Iso propyl alcohol (IPA) is available. Was used as a model aircraft engine fuel and general purpose solvent. Acetone is a fire risk. If I want to use it, I use nail varnish remover.
johnep


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> Far as solvents go, alcohol is pretty low on the list of things to worry about. Please note, im not saying dont worry at all, just that theres a lot of difference between alcohol vapors and lacquer thinner vapors. When in doubt, a respirator with organic vapor cartridges works wonders


Thanks for the comments. My brief experience with lacquer thinner was not pleasant.


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## GAF (Nov 4, 2012)

johnep said:


> Only a trace of purple in Meths. However, restrictions in Scotland as a few meths drinkers there and the methyl alcohol content very toxic and can cause blindness. Problem has been compounded by the solvent "sniffers".
> I use it without problems. IMS (Industrial Methylated Spirit) is controlled but a licenced user can use for perfumes etc.
> I is colourless. Other spirit products such as Surgical Spirit (Similar to your rubbing alcohol) also abused north of the border. It contains methyl salicylate (Wintergreen). For very expensive perfumes, we would sell Quassin powder and solution as a denaturant. Quassia wood is also known as wormwood and main supplier is Jamaica where it was used for furniture.
> Has been replaced by Bitrex, a synthetic product in expensive perfumes.
> ...


John that is very complex feedback beyond my ability to understand in detail. Wow.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

If you want, I can enlarge on any point.
Alcohol has been subject to regulations for hundreds of years.
johnep


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

Stupidity, just stupidity.

I'm told Denatured alcohol is no longer available in Southern California. It seems that denatured alcohol is a VOC and bad for the SMOG. 
OK, I'm sold. 
But now follow this closely.
Denatured alcohol is ethanol or alcohol made from corn. The denaturing agent is usually methyl alcohol which is poisonous. 
Ethanol is the major component of E-85 at the gas pump. 

Now for the really stupid question: Which puts more VOCs into the air, tail pipe unburned E-85 or the Denatured alcohol sold in cans at the home center? 

Is there a reason to mistrust the wisdom of the (lack of) brain trust at CARB?


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

For those who don't recognize the terms in the post above:

VOC = volatile organic compound. 
SMOG = smog. A word, not an acronym. Smog is air pollution. The word comes from a combination of "smoke" and "fog".
E-85 = A new fuel (petrol) type sold in the US. It is 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol.
CARB = California Air Resources Board. A state government agency.

Note: E-85 fuel is not in widespread use here in the US, however most "gasoline" automotive fuel sold here includes a small percentage of ethanol (usually 10%).


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

NoThankyou said:


> Stupidity, just stupidity.
> 
> I'm told Denatured alcohol is no longer available in Southern California. It seems that denatured alcohol is a VOC and bad for the SMOG.
> OK, I'm sold.
> ...


When the Revenuers come pounding on your door because you are operating a hidden still in your backyard, just tell them, "It's for shellac furniture finish!" ;-)

The federal government Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives is making plans to open a field office here in California, to combat all the bootlegger woodworkers. (NOT!)


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

Tool Agnostic said:


> When the Revenuers come pounding on your door because you are operating a hidden still in your backyard, just tell them, "It's for shellac furniture finish!" ;-)


Dave,
You absolutely made my day.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I've often read that the stuff we buy as denatured alcohol is "wood alcohol" and that Everclear is "corn alcohol". Is this true? 

I do think I'd have a run at making my own shellac solvent if I didn't have to make corn mash and go through the fermentation process.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Quickstep said:


> I've often read that the stuff we buy as denatured alcohol is "wood alcohol" and that Everclear is "corn alcohol". Is this true?
> 
> I do think I'd have a run at making my own shellac solvent if I didn't have to make corn mash and go through the fermentation process.


It isn't just a fermentation process. After your mash ferments, you distill it. The moonshiners have their secret "stills" hidden in the woods. When I worked a summer in West Virginia in the 1970s, the family I lived with warned me not to stray into the woods.

Ethanol is the alcohol in adult beverages. Everclear is a brand name of high proof grain alcohol. It has a high percentage of ethanol. The exact percentage varies depending on where you live and where you buy it, ranging from 75% ethanol (151 proof) to 95% ethanol (190+ proof). Corn is a common source for the grain in grain alcohol, but not the only one. 

Methanol is toxic. Methanol is also known as wood alcohol because it used to be made from wood. (The process to extract methanol from wood was different, too.) 

When you buy denatured alcohol, what you want is ethanol. Ethanol is cheap and easy to produce in large quantities. The government doesn't want you to go to your hardware store and buy gallons of cheap ethanol that you might drink instead of making shellac. It would damage the taxation and regulation regime around adult beverages that brings tax money to the government. That taxation dates back to the earliest days of the country. 

To avoid taxation for hardware store ethanol that you buy, it is "denatured" by the manufacturer. They add toxins (usually methanol) to make it deadly to drink. The product is mostly ethanol; it doesn't take much methanol to make it toxic. There is no reason to denature the alcohol other than taxation and regulation.

You don't want to breathe denatured alcohol or allow it to touch your skin. There is enough methanol in it to harm you if it is absorbed through your skin. Wear gloves and avoid the fumes when you handle it. 

(Related: Many companies started producing hand sanitizers to meet demand during the pandemic. Quite a few of them had to be recalled because they used toxic denatured (!!) alcohol as the active ingredient instead of ethanol.)


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

So, what was used in wood working during prohibition? 
johnep


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Tool Agnostic said:


> It isn't just a fermentation process. After your mash ferments, you distill it. Corn is a common source for the grain in grain alcohol, but not the only one.
> 
> When you buy denatured alcohol, what you want is ethanol. Ethanol is cheap and easy to produce in large quantities.


Thanks. I knew that the mash needed to be distilled when making alcohol from corn. The distillation process seems fairly straightforward. It's actually the fermentation process that I'd be keen to avoid; it sounds time consuming and messy. Are there alternatives to fermentation?


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Quickstep said:


> Thanks. I knew that the mash needed to be distilled when making alcohol from corn. The distillation process seems fairly straightforward. It's actually the fermentation process that I'd be keen to avoid; it sounds time consuming and messy. Are there alternatives to fermentation?


Good question, but I don't know whether there are alternative methods for alcohol production that do not involve fermentation. 

Fermentation is a component of large scale ethanol production from corn. I do not know if the reason is efficiency or a lack of alternative non-fermentation processes. 

There must be other members here with more expertise in this area than me.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

johnep said:


> So, what was used in wood working during prohibition?
> johnep


I assume that they used denatured alcohol, much like today in places where it is available. 

According to this Wikipedia article, the government required industrial applications to use denatured alcohol during Prohibition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

CORRECTION:
I want to correct my statement above about low levels of methanol in denatured alcohol. According to the Wikipedia article, which I had not read before, "The main additive has traditionally been 10% methanol..." but then they add, "In the United States, mixtures sold as denatured alcohol often have much greater percentages of methanol, and can be less than 50% ethanol."


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## WoodyWeekends (Mar 27, 2020)

To the OP.

What about MEK?


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

To the OP, Canadian Tire sells Methyl Hydrate, 99.9%, 4 litres for $12.00.

There is no logic to Amazon.ca pricing, you really have to watch, same product on another listing can be double or half the price depending on which you saw first.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

If someone could figure out how to separate the gasoline from ethanol in E-85 we would have a solution.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

NoThankyou said:


> If someone could figure out how to separate the gasoline from ethanol in E-85 we would have a solution.


.. and then you would pour that solution over the rocks with a soda mixer and a twist?


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks Tool Agnostic,
Looks as if Polish Meths identical to UK Meths. Colour is identical. Poland uses potatoes for cheap Vodka production.
Here in UK commercial alcohol produced from molasses from sugar refining. I have visited both Tate And Lyle and nearby, an alcohol factory.
In Ireland, Pfizer produce citric acid by fermentation of beet molasses which is deficient in Biotin. I used to sell Biotin to their factory. We also sold citric acid produced in Belgium. I sold to soft drinks manufacturers in Africa and the Caribbean.
We also sold Pectolase necessary to convert starches into sugar. 
Fermentation is a fascinating topic. If I needed alcohol, I would see what the local "moonshiner" can provide. The UK climate not suitable for Corn or cane sugar production, but we used to have a sugar beet factory in the town. Corn fed chickens are expensive. I used to sell carotenoids to add to feed manufacturers. I did well in Africa where corn is white in contrast to Argentina which has Red,
johnep


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## sancho57 (Oct 23, 2011)

Quickstep said:


> I've often read that the stuff we buy as denatured alcohol is "wood alcohol" and that Everclear is "corn alcohol". Is this true?
> 
> I do think I'd have a run at making my own shellac solvent if I didn't have to make corn mash and go through the fermentation process.


I make my own shellac all the time. I use denatured alcohol sometimes I couldnt find it when I lived it Calif. But the big box didnt sell denatured per se Instead they sold denatured labels as window cleaner. Worked just fine


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