# Cypress vs Cedar



## JCMeyersIV (Mar 8, 2012)

Hey guys! Been a while. Ill post a bunch of pics from the past month, I've been really busy. The business seems to be taking off, so thats good!

Im building a lot of Adirondack Chairs and the cedar around here is just no good. It splits, comes split, tears out, chunks just drop off, and its starting to create a lot of problems. i know cedar is likes that by nature but its still clearly poor quality. Theres a hardwood store an hour from here i get my better woods from that carries Cypress (they also have cedar but id like to try another wood) I've seen a few times its great for outdoor stuff, any opinions? Also seems like its fairly inexpensive.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

PM Firemedic (Tom) I think he is the Cypress king around here.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I built some Adirondack inspired chairs once using cypress.

It looked good during construction. Easy to work, easy to sand.

Then I put the chairs on the deck. It split, cracked, splintered and soon looked awful.

I would not want to use cedar or cypress again.

I hope you have better luck than I did.

I replaced by cypress chairs, same design, with mahogany. I eventually brought them inside. The wood was solid, but I did not like the mold streaks where the finish cracked allowing water ingress.

Too nice to ruin.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

Redwood


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I built my entire patio (the part that is not brick) out of cypress. It is easy to work with and looks good when finished. Ages silvery. It has been there 33 years without any rot problems, except for the corner of one 4x4. No finish was used as I wanted a natural look.

George

Very impressed with it.

George


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

How about white oak? Affordable and plentiful. It's been used as wine vats in this area. I've also seen cypress used for water storage so I know its weather resistant.


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## JCMeyersIV (Mar 8, 2012)

White oak isn't available anywhere close by :/


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## ectenn (Jul 11, 2012)

i have been using a lot of furnishings in the house made of cypress and so far i am amazed by its durability as compared to other wood products i have. it is fairly inexpensive to and it is easy to work with so the details can really be very intricate as well. i suggest that you should give this wood quality a try and surely you can see if it works for you too


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## JCMeyersIV (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks guys, I'm going to give it a shot. The wood i would LOVE to use for this is seriously poplar, but i know its terrible outside. Its just so easy to work with and stain (this is compared to what few woods I've used thus far) but Cypress seems like it will work great. I'll post some pics as soon as i get rolling.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

JCMeyersIV said:


> Thanks guys, I'm going to give it a shot. The wood i would LOVE to use for this is seriously poplar, but i know its terrible outside. Its just so easy to work with and stain (this is compared to what few woods I've used thus far) but Cypress seems like it will work great. I'll post some pics as soon as i get rolling.


Where are you located? Inexpensive is relative, what are they asking for it? I buy it for $0.75-$1.25 / bft. 

there are two main grades of Cypress. 'Select' & 'No 2'. They both come from the same trees but the select should be free of knots, cracks, bark and voids. That would be your best bet for stable Cypress. Even more importantly though is finding cypress with good grain properties. If you have the luxury is culling boards and selecting boards with short/straight growth rings that will also fare the weather better.

Overall, Cypress is extremely stable compared to other lumbers. It mills easily, dries quickly and flat even when air dried and for that same reason it tolerates seasonal change pretty well. 

Unfortunately the days of Cypress being rot resistant are gone. :thumbdown: Only the old growth virgin cypress from yrs gone by were old enough to contain percentages of, lets call it sap or resin, in the heart wood to resist rot. Most, if not all, of the cypress coming to market now are from trees less than 50 yrs old. The old trees of the bygone days were generally 400-8000 yrs and older and resembled the Great red woods in stature and appearance. The deforestation in on the Gulf Coast was a horrible mistake as the land of the southern giants is now gone and never to be seen again. We also at one time had large stands of white cedar in the swamps which was devourved by the New Orleans furniture industry from the 1750's-1800's. I've only seen one standing white cedar in the swamp down here and I've spent plenty of time in the swamp :w00t:

Cypress still has some rot resistance however it would rank it below both Cedar and White Oak but certainly also below Red Wood. The only option for rot/insect resistant Cypress is "Reclaimed Cypress" which comes from old building along the Gulf Coast. These beams and boards can be 200 yrs old and still in amazing shape because they were harvested from OLD cypress stands.

There are hundreds of craftsman building in the Gulf region building outdoor furniture from Cypress but it requires a durable finish to survive... Defeating the purpose of a rot resistant wood.

And I'm done ranting now :smile:

Edit:
I meant to say the trees were 400-800 yrs old... :laughing: not 8000!


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## JCMeyersIV (Mar 8, 2012)

Rant away! The place i get my lumber fetches 3.95/bf for cypres and 2.95 for select western red. Both seem high to me but it's either that or the not as good stuff at the small guy hardware stores (I HATE big box lumber)


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

JCMeyersIV said:


> Rant away! The place i get my lumber fetches 3.95/bf for cypres and 2.95 for select western red. Both seem high to me but it's either that or the not as good stuff at the small guy hardware stores (I HATE big box lumber)


Where are you located?


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## JCMeyersIV (Mar 8, 2012)

Northern new york. Alexandria Bay to be exact.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Wow! can't help ya there, bud. It would cost too much to ship! I should think white oak and cedar would be much more readily available. In fact I'm shocked they even sell Cypress up there... Is it bald Cypress? Pond Cypress? Australian Cypress?...? There are a lot of trees in the Cupressaceae family and other families called "Cypress" I'd be curious as to what it is and what it looks like!


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## JCMeyersIV (Mar 8, 2012)

I'll let you know. I have to go down there to get some materials for 5 adk chairs and some walnut for a table on Monday. I wanna get away from cedar so bad. All it ever does is split. Maybe this new place will be better but who knows.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

The topic of why use Cypress for furniture came up over on woodbarter, this is an excerpt from a project of mine I posted there. I think it's relevant here so I figured I'd post it here to for any interested.

Sorry if it's a dry read!
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The use of Cypress lumber for furnishings is regional. Cypress was used extensively in the furniture industry of New Orleans and the South East Gulf Coast as a whole. The earliest settlers on the Louisiana Gulf Coast were of mainly German and French decent. The Germans came by way of ships from England and their arrival in the early 18th Century predated the arrival of the French Acadians. Although I believe some examples of early Germanic furniture and housewares built in Louisiana likely survived, I’m personally (doesn’t say much) unfamiliar with them. These early pieces were most likely of function than form as the earliest German settlers would have lived in small farming communities resembling those they left behind. As a side note the local Native Americans, having survived there long before any white man, are credited with having saved those early emigrants from starvation as it was truly a New World for them. These Germans settled mainly on what is referred to as the German Coast and is located along the banks of the Mighty Mississippi River in the modern day Parishes of St Charles, St John the Baptist and St. James. The French Acadians who followed found a partially settled coast line and were too saved in turn from starvation by the Germans as well as Native Americans. These French settlers covered a much larger area of the coast including New Orleans.

What those early settlers found were deep dark swamps infested with all sorts of harmful creatures but also a Garden of Eden of sorts. It was uncultivated rich fertile land as a result of the yearly Spring floods of the river. Those floods carried fresh soil and deposits heavily laden with nutrients every year. These floods made the banks and surrounding areas higher than the encompassing swamps allowing for agriculture but also a population of mixed hardwoods. The Gulf Coast swamps were comprised mainly of giant Cypress trees as well as White Cedar groves, Poplar, and Tupelo. These ambitious survivors and outcast of other societies were soon tasked with felling large areas of forests and swamps for agriculture. This meant not only felling the trees which were also used for building shelter but it also meant removal of the stumps! I invite you to enter any heavily forested area and imagine acres upon acres of it with only the stumps left behind, now imagine yourself having to remove those stumps with simple ingenuity! It would be no small feat!

As stated, hardwoods were at hand and evidence of hardwoods in early building construction can be found, however the overwhelming majority of surviving early building along the coast were constructed of Cypress lumber. This is due to its ability to weather the course of time and insects, in comparison to others, not only did more survive relatively speaking but the early settlers recognized this trait early on and capitalized upon it.

Native Americans used Cypress extensively for dug-out canoes and the settlers took note of this. The earliest settler use of the lumber would have been shelter, carts wagons and rafts. These early Americans had available to them a Cypress wood that vastly different than that logged today. In comparison the old trees had far denser and tighter growth rings amongst other advantages over today’s Cypress. If the reader is familiar with antique heart pine this is more similar to the characteristics of the old Cypress. That said it lent itself well to uses such as furniture as well as house hold and farm tools or implements.

As time progressed and items of more refined furnishings became necessary Cypress was used for these items as well. It was readily available and sure to survive… or so they thought.

The Gulf Coast has had a long history of devastating events. The countless hurricanes destroyed homes and the floods that made the land so fertile were still not ready to be domesticated. This in addition fires in the early Louisiana settlements have unfortunately claimed many of the pieces we would otherwise have to learn from. This did not stop the Louisiana People however; the swamps were still full of timber and the American Spirit at its best. As history progressed and New Orleans became the Melting pot of culture and the center of trade for the South many immigrants and indentured cabinet builders, coopers and other related trades became necessary. These craftsmen came primarily from France, England, Germany and Haiti bringing their particular style with them.

Wide scale logging of Cypress began in the late 1800’s and hit its peak in the early 1900’s. This coincides also with the peak of the furniture industry in New Orleans. Cypress was used extensively in the furniture industry both as primary and as secondary lumber. It continued to be used as primary lumber for the outlying settlement such as Vacherie, La and French Settlement, La. The continued increase in trade in New Orleans meant that exotic lumbers, primarily Mahogany became available as well as exquisite steel and Brass hardware from France and England as talented smiths were still few in New Orleans.

The resulting furniture built in New Orleans until the mid to late 1800’s was a blending of styles with many showing predominate features of the cabinet builder’s heritage. As the late 1800’s came the Federal period began to influence Louisiana’s furniture industry and some very highly embellished pieces have survived to attest to the incredible craftsmanship present in New Orleans. Although the style of furniture from that point forward became more synonymous with the rest of the country one fact still remained unchanged from the very earliest of farm tools – Cypress. Even with the most embellished of Federal style furniture Cypress lies at the heart hidden by veneers of Mahogany, Holly, Magnolia and Ebony.

Unfortunately there is a bias towards any furnishings produced outside of the North East Coast area and it has only been in last decade that the artistic and historical communities have begun to realize the importance of the furniture industry in New Orleans as well as the undeniable skill of its craftsmen. A recent publication by the Historic New Orleans Historical Collection "Furnishing Louisiana: Creole and Acadian Furniture 1735-1835" has played a major role in furthering the awareness of this phenomena of oversight by the sacred experts of furniture design and history. Reading this book is highly recommended to anyone interested in the history of furniture design as a whole.

It is the author’s wish that Louisiana’s vast history and culture be recognized and protected in all aspects and including the furniture, cooperages, and logging trades.

The love affair that the Louisiana natives have for Cypress cannot be explained, it has to be lived. Much like our Crawfish and Okra Gumbo, Cypress is a part of our culture which we shall never let die. Still today Cypress is a highly coveted lumber in South Louisiana. Despite the decrease in its benefits compared to old cypress it still comprises a large portion of the furniture and craft work of Louisiana artists.
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The book I recommend above - Amazon.com: Furnishing Louisiana: Creole and Acadian Furniture, 1735 to 1835 (9780917860560): Jack D. Holden, H. Parrott Bacot, Cybele T. Gontar, Brian J. Costello, Francis J. Puig, Jessica Dorman, Sarah R. Doerries, Jim Zietz (photographer): Books

More reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/arts/design/10antiques.html
http://countryroadsmagazine.com/History/furnishing-louisiana
http://www.nola.com/books/index.ssf/2010/12/furnishing_louisiana_described.html
http://www.knowla.org/category.php?rec=2

Do your eyes hurt yet?


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## mark c (Aug 26, 2012)

Have you looked at black locust?

The farmers around here use it for fence post. We removed some to open up the field and the farmer said his grandfather had put it there 90 yrs ago. It was still solid with weathering in the top foot and about a inch all the way around that was under ground. 
I've been trying to find some to make some outdoor furniture.


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## Scjetson (Jun 28, 2016)

I have built a lot of outdoor furniture out of cypress. Easy to work with and Stands up great to the elements. I have experienced cracking though after a few years of being outside. I recently moved to SC from GA and I am having a hard time finding Cypress here but I can get Cedar. I have limited experience with Cedar. I guess your not a big fan of the Cedar?


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Scjetson said:


> I have built a lot of outdoor furniture out of cypress. Easy to work with and Stands up great to the elements. I have experienced cracking though after a few years of being outside. I recently moved to SC from GA and I am having a hard time finding Cypress here but I can get Cedar. I have limited experience with Cedar. I guess your not a big fan of the Cedar?


You might want to start a new thread, this one is really old.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Western Red Cedar will be just fine if and when you slow down and "learn" the wood. WRC is being logged from both slow-growth and rapid-growth areas.
You must take a 6" ruler with you and count growth rings in the end grain. Anything less than 12/inch is fence boards, if that. Construction qualities are crap, OK?

I've seen fantastic, clear, colored WRC, perfect for wood carving BUT. . ..... 8 rings/inch. Keep walking.

Now, lets suppose you find 5/4 deck WRC boards, maybe a knot every 30-36" AND somewhere between 15 and 40 rings per inch.
I buy all I can find. For carving and construction, the wood anatomy has the density to perform like many other woods.
8 rings/inch is punky like balsa modelling wood. 40+ is hard, kinda boney, it carves OK and for anything else = wonderful.

Lesson: You cannot waltz into the lumberyard and buy whatever WRC is on top and expect a good result.
Hell, do like I do. Tell them you're a carve and looking for WRC between 15-40 rings/inch.
Do not be at all surprised by the help you might get, like I do.

Go for it.


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