# Coffee table plans - input appreciated - Joinery?



## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Hi,

I am making a coffee table for my final project in college.

Attached are pics of the plans (didn't have a scanner).

My instructor said he liked it and thought it could work.

What do you guys things?

What suggestions do you have for the joinery?

I am thinking that the joints between the leg base (D) and leg stretcher (E) - as well as the joints between the primary support stretcher (B) and the leg stretcher (E) will need to be something like domino joints because there is not enough room for a mortis and tennon structure. I feel the joints between the support beam (F) and primary support stretcher (B) have enough room for M&T structure, as well as the joints between the support beam (F) and the leg stretcher (E).

I have half lap joints underneath the table where the primary support stretcher (B) and the secondary support stretchers (C) meet, but a friend suggested a bridle joint for strength. Thoughts? I am new to woodworking and would also like to simplify as much as possible without making it simple for the sake of taking the easy way out. 

He also suggested sliding dovetails going width-ways between the leg stetcher (E) and the the leg base (D) instead of dominos. I think that might be a good idea..I could put in two sliding dovetails there and that should give plenty of strength, and the joinery is pretty simple I think.

Cheers


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## Ebuuck (Jan 25, 2011)

where are the pics?


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

it won't let me upload them..getting it sorted as we speak


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

ok images updated.look now


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Bump. Seems like people might be missing this because it took me so long to upload the pictures


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Bump!

4 days and 200 views, no replies people! Somebody must have some input.

nija


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## mveach (Jul 3, 2010)

No reason I can see that it wouldn't work. I do see that the top is about 1/3 wider than the base. depending on the weight of the table and how you plan on using it, this could pose a tip hazard.


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

mveach said:


> No reason I can see that it wouldn't work. I do see that the top is about 1/3 wider than the base. depending on the weight of the table and how you plan on using it, this could pose a tip hazard.


Yes, a friend told me about that. I think I will add stretchers going out sideways from the legs for that.

I still don't know about what kind of joinery to use when connecting the leg stretchers to the base of the table..I don't know if dominos are sufficient?

perhaps with all the extra stretchers it will be ok?


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

It just hit me that a table top with 1/2" tapered edges won't be very strong. What the minimum I could go without compromising durability and strength? 3/4"? 1"?


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## tymann09 (Mar 4, 2011)

Hey there, 
So i have a couple of questions and also some opinions. 

first off. to answer your most recent question, this looks like it's going to be a coffee table correct? that being said, it appears from the drawings you have that you have a taper on the sides as well as the front and back of the underside of the table top. you also have them going very close to the center, do you think you'll run into problems matching the taper with the supports and then attaching the top? I only ask because with that taper you will have to create a compound angle on those stretchers. If you're looking to do a taper, i would probably either limit the taper to only being past any type of support. or go very close to the center in one direction, say the 48" and then limit yourself to having the taper on just past the supports on the 28" i hope this makes sense, if not let me know and i'll draw a quick sketch to show you what i mean. so after saying all that, whatever you decide to do, if it is indeed a coffee table, i actually see no problem with half inch around the edge seeing as you're doing a taper and there will be a thicker center. if this was a dining room table i would say you need to go alot thicker.

another point about the table top, this is a pretty wide piece. i'm not sure what you had in mind for attaching the top to the structure itself but keep in mind that something this wide will have a tendency to cup and warp and do all kinds of tricks on you. tis the nature of wood.

Now, as far as joining the leg stretcher(F) to the leg, i would go with a mortise and tenon joint. 

For joinging the legs to the base, (E to D) i would consider doing something a little different. I'm not crazy about this part of the design, i feel it's to bulky, from the end view you've got a giant rectangle. if you're going to have taper ont he table top, you should have a taper on the base too, or a curve. also i don't like how from the front it looks like it's just sitting on blocks, now this works if you're doing a traditional style trestle table. but you need some way to have the angle flow into the legs. perhaps make the bases wider, this way the legs go into the center of the legs and then you can put some kind of bevel or a groove of some sorts on the edges. this would smooth the transition while looking at it from the front. If you widened the base you could also do a mortise and tenon joint. it is angled, but not that hard. one other thing on the base, i think you shouldn't have the bottom be flat all the way across. If you look at traditional style trestle tables they have a { shape. if it was flat and a board cupped on you, you'd have a rocky table, also if the floor wasn't flat the same thing would happen. it'd be best if you had "feet" of some sort. it doesn't ahve to be much. 

One thing about dominos, now this is just my opinion, alot of people will have different views. i tend to find dominos to be cheating. while they are very neat joints, they are simply to easy and lack traditional values. If you did mortise and tenon joints and a woodworker or professional asked what kind of joints you used upon looking at the finished product and you said dominos, they'd be like oh ok, nice and easy. but if you said mortise and tenon, their respect for you just grew because you used a semi complicated angled mortise and tenon, and if it looked good you'd be praised. It does take more time but it heightens the craftsmanship. One other thing to keep in mind is you said you're a college student. so you're probably using the schools tools. when you go get your own shop, are you going to go out and buy a $1000 dollar domino machine? 

I know this is alot of info, i felt like talking :thumbsup: and i certainly hope it helps. It does look like a very interesting design though, i think if you worked with it a little more you'd be able to make it work good for you too. This would also look nice with contrasting woods. didn't know what you had in mind. 

Cheerio!
-Tyler


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Thank you for the solid response.

That is good thinking on the taper. It would be much easier to have the taper only around the corners - would preserve the look, and add strength.

I will do that.

As for the bulkiness of the support piece underneath - I didn't think of that. I guess I was just hoping it wouldn't be visible. I'll try adding a bevel and some style there so that it doesn't look so bulky.

As for the feet - a friend of mine also pointed what you are saying out and I guess I will add some arches to allow for movement.

I was going to do sliding dovetails to attach the top to the structure. Sliding dovetails for the feet as well.

As for the dominos, I felt I don't have enough space for a mortis and tennon and would rather use multiple loose tennons. Do you think I could get a Mortis and tennon in there?




tymann09 said:


> Hey there,
> So i have a couple of questions and also some opinions.
> 
> first off. to answer your most recent question, this looks like it's going to be a coffee table correct? that being said, it appears from the drawings you have that you have a taper on the sides as well as the front and back of the underside of the table top. you also have them going very close to the center, do you think you'll run into problems matching the taper with the supports and then attaching the top? I only ask because with that taper you will have to create a compound angle on those stretchers. If you're looking to do a taper, i would probably either limit the taper to only being past any type of support. or go very close to the center in one direction, say the 48" and then limit yourself to having the taper on just past the supports on the 28" i hope this makes sense, if not let me know and i'll draw a quick sketch to show you what i mean. so after saying all that, whatever you decide to do, if it is indeed a coffee table, i actually see no problem with half inch around the edge seeing as you're doing a taper and there will be a thicker center. if this was a dining room table i would say you need to go alot thicker.
> ...


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## tymann09 (Mar 4, 2011)

yes, i would do loose tenons vs dominos. what you can do is position the tenon very close to one side, like an 1/8" from the edge. and then go down as deep as you can, not sure what the thicknesses of the material you'll be using is but if you were able to get a 1x1x1 tenon to work, that would be more then sufficient in my eyes. if you were still worried about strength, There is a very neat joint i've learned, it's tricky but it's one of the strongest for tricky places like yours. what it is, is a finger-jointed mitered spline joint. you take and cut mortises into both pieces, say the mortises measure 1"L x 1/2"W x 1"Deep. you then make a spline, which would be two pieces of stock the same size as the mortises and you fingerjoint those two pieces together. glue up the spline, then insert it into the mortises and you've got a rock solid joint with all that glue surface. this works great for doing mitered corners. you could possibly apply the same idea to attaching the supports in your case. the box joint would be angled, but that's not to hard to do. just something to think about. 

Glad i was able to help


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## Starkey (Mar 1, 2011)

What degree and college allows you do woodworking for credits? I want to go... seriously.


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## tymann09 (Mar 4, 2011)

Starkley,
I'm not sure if your question was towards nijabhaava but I'm a student as well. I'm currently in the Vermont woodworking school through burlington college. I'm only taking a certificate program but am getting college credit for it. they offer an associates as well as a bachelors in woodworking though. I like the school alot though i'm glad i'm only going for a year. You should also look into RIT, rochester institute of technology. They could be considered to have the best woodworking program in the country. they offer the AO BA as well as an MFA.


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Starkey said:


> What degree and college allows you do woodworking for credits? I want to go... seriously.


A number of them. The one I am attending is Red Rocks Community college in lakewood CO. They have an associates degree, a 'master craftsman' post AAS degree, and a number of 1 year certificates. 



tymann09 said:


> yes, i would do loose tenons vs dominos. what you can do is position the tenon very close to one side, like an 1/8" from the edge. and then go down as deep as you can, not sure what the thicknesses of the material you'll be using is but if you were able to get a 1x1x1 tenon to work, that would be more then sufficient in my eyes. if you were still worried about strength, There is a very neat joint i've learned, it's tricky but it's one of the strongest for tricky places like yours. what it is, is a finger-jointed mitered spline joint. you take and cut mortises into both pieces, say the mortises measure 1"L x 1/2"W x 1"Deep. you then make a spline, which would be two pieces of stock the same size as the mortises and you fingerjoint those two pieces together. glue up the spline, then insert it into the mortises and you've got a rock solid joint with all that glue surface. this works great for doing mitered corners. you could possibly apply the same idea to attaching the supports in your case. the box joint would be angled, but that's not to hard to do. just something to think about.
> 
> Glad i was able to help


But dominos are loose tenon joints..theyre just machine made instead of handmade. I don't care too much about whether my work is viewed as craftsmanship or not - I'd rather simplify rather than complicate. I don't see why I couldn't use dominos..

the joint your talking about sounds like it might be too complex for me..this is pretty much my second project.


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## tymann09 (Mar 4, 2011)

my first real project while i was in school was very complicated. i made it so. i did joints i' never done. techniques i'd never done etc. and because i chose to do that, i learned a ton of stuff. now, wihle the piece might not be perfect, what i learned was far worth it. and yes a domino is pretty much a loose tenon. sure, it's easier to do it with a machine, but if you did it by hand at least once, you can say "yea i can do that by hand but it's faster with a machine" just my opinion. do what you want. if you're going to school for woodworking, you should care about quality of craftsmanship though.


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