# Benchtop router table vs. table saw extension



## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

I'll say this upfront: I have very little experience with routers & router tables. I've never really needed to use a router in the past. But I have a project where I'll be cutting a bunch of stopped dados, which I'll be doing with a router. And I'm sure I'll find many other uses for it. 

So now I'm wondering what to do for a router table. Due to space concerns, I don't want to buy/build a full-size router table. So I'm considering one of the following:
1. A benchtop router table like the Bosch RA1181 ($189) or the Craftsman 28140 (on sale for $119).
2. Using the melamine wing in my table saw as a router table.

Based on my limited experience, these seem to be the advantages of each:

BENCHTOP ROUTER TABLE
- quick & easy assembly
- built-in T-slot for miter gauge
- dust collection port
- power switch

TABLE SAW WING
- less expensive
- takes up no additional space
- can use table saw fence (if I add MDF face plates). 

The melamine wing in my table saw is only 12" wide by 27" deep. Is that even large enough to mount a router?

As for the two benchtop router tables I mentioned above, the Bosch has an aluminum top, which is more durable, but I'm a little worried about it causing black marks on work pieces. The Craftsman seems pretty similar but has a MDF top (and is $70 cheaper). 

Any advice/recommendations?

- Rob


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## MrSlurpee (Nov 15, 2012)

I have both. My bench top one gets very little use. The one in my table saw has become my go to router table now. I saw go with one in your table saw.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Based on my experience the bench top router tables tend to be underused. I use my table probably 4X as much as did before I built the dedicated table. I would also avoid the aluminum top. 
I also find that I sometimes need the table saw in the middle of a routing job, ie, screwed up and need another piece or something like that. That means tearing down the router setup to set the saw up and then going back unless you have your saw wing router table configured so as to minimally interfere with each other. Optimum solution, IMHO, is a dedicated router table and everything mobile to accomodate space issues. Saw wing router mounting is a workable solution though. If you go that route, I would suggest planning on making a dedicated router fence though. It will give you more flexibility and is much easier to incorporate dust collection. You will get the lions share of dust collection off the fence in a router table. 

All that said, for the job you mentioned, stop dado's, I would do those with the router hand held as opposed to table mounted anyway. :smile:


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## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

jschaben said:


> Based on my experience the bench top router tables tend to be underused. I use my table probably 4X as much as did before I built the dedicated table. I would also avoid the aluminum top.
> I also find that I sometimes need the table saw in the middle of a routing job, ie, screwed up and need another piece or something like that. That means tearing down the router setup to set the saw up and then going back unless you have your saw wing router table configured so as to minimally interfere with each other. Optimum solution, IMHO, is a dedicated router table and everything mobile to accomodate space issues. Saw wing router mounting is a workable solution though. If you go that route, I would suggest planning on making a dedicated router fence though. It will give you more flexibility and is much easier to incorporate dust collection. You will get the lions share of dust collection off the fence in a router table.
> 
> All that said, for the job you mentioned, stop dado's, I would do those with the router hand held as opposed to table mounted anyway.


Yeah, I was planning on building a jig for the dados and cutting them by hand (all 40 of them). I just assumed that once I have a router, I'd need a table :smile:

I currently have a biesemeyer-style fence on my TS. Adding a second dedicated router fence with dust collection seems like it would be an even more complicated (and expensive) proposition. Why do you guys think that benchtop router tables are underused? Is it just the hassle of pulling it out and setting it up? Or is it that they're too small and/or less stable? Any other downsides I should be aware of?

Maybe I should just hold off on the router table until I actually have a need for it. Just thought I might take advantage of that sale price on the Craftsman table...


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

A router table built into a TS wing can be a great space saver for those with small shops. It's usually larger and heavier than the portable benchtop types. The 12" dimension is a tad small, but doable.....16" to 20" would be better.

Google for ideas....there are a lot of easy and inexpensive ways to add a RT fence to a Biese. ...or build a stand alone fence.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

robchronos said:


> Yeah, I was planning on building a jig for the dados and cutting them by hand (all 40 of them). I just assumed that once I have a router, I'd need a table :smile:
> 
> I currently have a biesemeyer-style fence on my TS. Adding a second dedicated router fence with dust collection seems like it would be an even more complicated (and expensive) proposition. Why do you guys think that benchtop router tables are underused? Is it just the hassle of pulling it out and setting it up? Or is it that they're too small and/or less stable? Any other downsides I should be aware of?
> 
> Maybe I should just hold off on the router table until I actually have a need for it. Just thought I might take advantage of that sale price on the Craftsman table...


I think you pretty well picked up on why the benchtop is underused, at least the majority of the reasons. I have a small basement shop. Overall floor space isn't bad until I go sharing with the furnace/hot water heater/Xmas storage and all the other things basements are used for. I really only had space for one workbench, about 6ft x 2½ ft. Usually, when I needed the router table, the workbench was covered with the project:thumbdown:. That meant many times I would skip the nice little roundovers and touches that give projects that little extra. I ended up going with a dedicated table and a foldup Ridgid 4510 saw. Every thing is on wheels. To use the router table I need to fold up the saw but I don't need to break down any setups to do that. I just fold the saw up and roll it out of the way and roll the router table in. Still a hassle but better than it was. Really gets interesting when I need to get to the miter or band saw.:huh:

At the very least, you will need to make some mods to the Bessey to accomodate covering the router bit. In the majority of table routing jobs, a good portion of the bit will be hidden behind the fence face so you will need either a split fence face or one with a hole in it.:smile:


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## Art Smith (Oct 16, 2012)

Here is my suggestion;


M-POWER CRB7 ROUTER BASE


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*they are both the same in performance*










I have both, Bench Dogs, and the same router and lift in each, so for all intents they are identical. So, when would I use one over the other? that's easy., which ever one I can "find" and that's not currently being used as a "table" rather than a router table. :laughing: See the cluttered router table behind the table saw...
If I were limited in floor space I would consider the cast iron side extension...IF I had a cast iron table saw. If my table saw had an aluminum top, then I would go with a wood side extension. 
Whether you use a lift is an financial decision really. Some of the newer router can be height adjusted from the table top, do you don't need a separate lift. I like the JessEm lifts that are accurate, rugged and precisely adjustable from the top with a hand crank. 
A complete cast iron router table, with a JessEM lift and a PC 3 1/4 HP router will cost just under $1000.  That's pretty much top of the line, but you can put one together for $300 or so less, another financial decision. 
As was stated above, don't plan on using your table saw fence for the router, because setting up the router fence is a precise operation and you don't want to break that down to rip another piece of stock if you are one piece short. 
The most basic router table fence is a straight long board with a bolt hole at one end and a slot at the other which can be moved in and out over the cutter. You don't need adjustments at both ends, but that's OK if you can. The fence need not be parallel to any edge on the table for accuracy either, it's the distance back from the cutter that matters. Fences can be aluminum, hardwood, or particle board. One piece fences are just fine for most operations and a zero clearance is best for accuracy. You make them by using the pivot bolt at one end and pushing the fence into the cutter at the highest level you will need.


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## LearnByDoing (Jan 18, 2012)

I recently invested in the below Benchdog Cast Iron router table extension for my table saw.

I had a porter cable bench top RT and now realize how much it sucked. The Benchdog was the most money (about $300 on sale) that I have spent on a single piece of woodworking equipment in a long time. It was worth it. I have very little floor space in my shop. The benchdog has made both my TS and Router table more useful.

I waivered on this purchase for 2 years but now I see it was a no-brainer. I didn't have much space, the porter cable bench top was difficult to set-up and use. And my TS needed a right side wing.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

jschaben said:


> .
> I also find that I sometimes need the table saw in the middle of a routing job, ie, screwed up and need another piece or something like that. That means tearing down the router setup to set the saw up and then going back unless you have your saw wing router table configured so as to minimally interfere with each other. Optimum solution, IMHO, is a dedicated router table and everything mobile to accomodate space issues. Saw wing router mounting is a workable solution though. If you go that route, I would suggest planning on making a dedicated router fence though. It will give you more flexibility and is much easier to incorporate dust collection. You will get the lions share of dust collection off the fence in a router table.
> 
> All that said, for the job you mentioned, stop dado's, I would do those with the router hand held as opposed to table mounted anyway. :smile:


+1

My craftsman contractor TS came with a router wing, and I LOVE it, but I really have to make sure that I have all my pieces cut ahead of time. There have been way to many instances where I did need another piece cut down on the TS, and I ended up pulling out my portable POS TS to do it, because I didn't want to dismantle the router table set up.

Ideally, I would love to have the TS with router extension, and an additional TS, sort of like Bill's (woodnthings), but due to lack of space/money, I have just been dealing with what I have right now.

Hope this helps.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

The first router table I had was a sink cutout clamped to my bench. The router dropped in hanging by a 12X12 piece of plexiglass. No body made a router table back then. The manufactures frowned on us using the router upside down. One guy said it would void the warranty. That all changed when Porter Cable started selling one. That had to be the worse tool they ever made or sold.

The best thing about the above setup is the router only needs to be set on its base to be used otherwise. I could slide that thing in place in a heart beat. After a while the top got too bowed and I tossed it. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Art Smith said:


> Here is my suggestion;
> 
> M-POWER CRB7 ROUTER BASE


I tried to find this. What is it?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> I tried to find this. What is it?
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Hi Al - here ya go
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=31844

M-power makes some nice stuff, most of it seems pretty innovative. I haven't felt the urge to drop $80 on that thing though.......yet. :smile:


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## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks for all of the feedback -- it's been very helpful!


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Me, I'm a cheap bast*rd. I mounted a Craftsman Pro aluminum top bench router table, minus the plastic legs to the side of my table saw. Since I use the table saw for ripping stock and very rarely use it to crosscut (that's the RAS or Miter Saw's job) Leaving it set up is not a problem. I also have a space issue, so I mounted mine on the left side of the saw so I feed material through from the same side as I do the saw.


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## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

johnnie52 said:


> Me, I'm a cheap bast*rd. I mounted a Craftsman Pro aluminum top bench router table, minus the plastic legs to the side of my table saw. Since I use the table saw for ripping stock and very rarely use it to crosscut (that's the RAS or Miter Saw's job) Leaving it set up is not a problem. I also have a space issue, so I mounted mine on the left side of the saw so I feed material through from the same side as I do the saw.


Do you get any black marks on your wood from the aluminum router table? I used to get them on my previous aluminum top table saw (and my circular saw before I started using a cutting guide). Waxing didn't seem to help.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

robchronos said:


> Do you get any black marks on your wood from the aluminum router table? I used to get them on my previous aluminum top table saw (and my circular saw before I started using a cutting guide). Waxing didn't seem to help.


I have a router table that I made out of 1/4 aluminum. I had to anodize it before it could be used. Did it myself in the shop. Now it's very slick and doesn't leave any marks.









This is the finished top. the router is raised and lowered with the ratchet.









This is the top laying in the sulfuric acid with a battery charger connected to it. It took about 3 hrs.

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

robchronos said:


> Do you get any black marks on your wood from the aluminum router table? I used to get them on my previous aluminum top table saw (and my circular saw before I started using a cutting guide). Waxing didn't seem to help.


I've never had that happen. I keep it cleaned and treated with Top Coat to prevent corrosion as it lives outside under a tarp to protect it from the weather. I quit using wax on things a several years ago.

Knowing what wax does to aluminum after years of waxing aluminum wheels on a semi I know it can cause a black residue to build up over time. Maybe that is what is causing your issue with black marks on the wood or maybe your bits and blades need sharpening. You didn't say whether the marks were on the surface or the edges of your work piece.


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## Tman1 (Jan 14, 2013)

When I had my aluminum bench top router table, I had issues with black marks from the table top. It may be due to the wax I used on it as mentioned earlier, but I have had issues wit black marks from other aluminum surfaces that were not waxed. Besides the black marks, I had two issues with my bench top table. First, the surface was too small. It worked for most routing operations, but several times it would have been nice to have a larger work surface. The second issue I had was with the height. At around 12" tall, it is really too tall to use comfortably on a benchtop, but too short to use freestanding. I ended up making a custom cart for it, which resulted in it taking almost as much space as a full size table, but without all of the benefits.

Right now, I have a full size table top and it is great. I intended to build a table to go under it, but I haven't gotten it done. So, I clamp it to an available work surface. That does make it less convenient to use, but it takes up less space than my benchtop on a cart did.


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## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

So I'm zeroing in on a cast iron router extension for my TS. The Bench Dog seems to be pretty popular, but it's definitely not cheap (close to $400 with a plate). MLCS has one for less than $300 (including the plate), though it seems to have slightly fewer features. Anyone had any experience (good or bad) with the MLCS?

Next question: which side of my TS should I mount it on? The Bench Dog and MLCS are both 16" wide. Here's a pic of my saw:










The cast iron portion of the table is 44" wide (including the two 12" wings). The black laminate on the right side is 12" wide.

Could I mount the 16" router extension on the RIGHT side (in place of the laminate) without needing any additional support? As you can see, I have a job site cart so I really don't want to add legs. If I replaced the LEFT cast iron wing with the router table, could I move that wing (12" wide) to the right side (in place of the laminate) without needing additional support?

I hope these aren't dumb questions :smile: This is my first experience with a table saw this size, so I'm still figuring out what I can and can't do…


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I won't give speciific advice but,*

Mine is on the right side. I like to stand and push the work from right to left towards the front of the saw....I donno why...that's just me. I only used the fence rails for support besides the 4 bolts through the table edge. Mine doesn't get moved around, so in your case maybe metal brace down to the cart sides or top handle. 
If I recall my Bench Dog weighed around 60 lbs, without the router and lift, so add another 20 lbs. Bouncing over steps or other obstruction may cause the table to flex, maybe not. A brace wouldn't hurt. JMO.


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## <*(((>< (Feb 24, 2010)

I have the benchdog, bought it off Craigslist for $100 with the plate, it was a steal and is well made. I would second woodnthings it is more comfortable to me having it right of the blade and pushing stock from the back of the saw to the front.


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## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

<*(((>< said:


> I have the benchdog, bought it off Craigslist for $100 with the plate, it was a steal and is well made. I would second woodnthings it is more comfortable to me having it right of the blade and pushing stock from the back of the saw to the front.


Nice find! I would LOVE to pick one up for $100.

As long as my rails can support it, I would actually prefer to have it on the right side.


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## Tman1 (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm pretty sure your rails cannot support a cast iron extension, that is the job of the fasteners to the top. But, you could probably get away with bolting one to another cast iron wing (not to a stamped steel or laminated wood product wing). You just want to make sure that the first wing was securely bolted to the table and the second wing was securely bolted to the first. You are counting on those connections to hold everything up. You might want to add a couple of pieces of angle iron underneath, just to be sure. 

As far as the side you put it on, think about how you might use it. Which side will it be easier to use. In my case, that would be the left, because I keep the right side of my table saw against the wall. But if I didn't, I would probably go with the right, because I would have fewer conflicts between my router setups and my table saw setups. 

Whichever side you choose, remember that you can always change it if you find the other side would be more convenient (as long as you don't use your rails for support and deform them).


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## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

Tman1 said:


> I'm pretty sure your rails cannot support a cast iron extension, that is the job of the fasteners to the top. But, you could probably get away with bolting one to another cast iron wing (not to a stamped steel or laminated wood product wing). You just want to make sure that the first wing was securely bolted to the table and the second wing was securely bolted to the first. You are counting on those connections to hold everything up. You might want to add a couple of pieces of angle iron underneath, just to be sure.
> 
> As far as the side you put it on, think about how you might use it. Which side will it be easier to use. In my case, that would be the left, because I keep the right side of my table saw against the wall. But if I didn't, I would probably go with the right, because I would have fewer conflicts between my router setups and my table saw setups.
> 
> Whichever side you choose, remember that you can always change it if you find the other side would be more convenient (as long as you don't use your rails for support and deform them).


All of the instructions for router table extensions have them bolted to both the existing cast iron edge and the rails. I guess I'm not sure how much weight is carried by each component -- especially when you get out several feet. But it makes sense that a good part of that weight will be on the CI to CI connection. The rails on my saw are pretty heavy gauge steel, but I'll probably add a couple of braces just for my peace of mind.

Now I just need to figure out if I want to spend the extra money to get the Bench Dog extension over the MLCS. The main advantage I see with the Bench Dog is the fence can be put on either side of the router, which would allow me to use the rest of the table when necessary for large pieces. For those of you with table saw extensions, is that an option worth having?


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## dualquads (Oct 21, 2012)

Just another idea... I bought a Unisaw last year and was also in need of a router table. I hated the thought of cutting a hole in my new saw's extension table so I built a portable router table the same height as the saw and it doubles as an outfeed table for ripping sheet goods on the saw. Downside is you will need to build/buy another fence for the router table.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

robchronos said:


> Now I just need to figure out if I want to spend the extra money to get the Bench Dog extension over the MLCS. The main advantage I see with the Bench Dog is the fence can be put on either side of the router, which would allow me to use the rest of the table when necessary for large pieces. For those of you with table saw extensions, is that an option worth having?


In my experience, I have learned to deal with what I have. If you really think it will be an issue for you, then spend the extra money. It all depends on how well you can deal with adversity, I suppose.

My router table extension came with the saw, and the TS fence is supposed to be the used for the router table extension. The fence system that came with the TS was a joke, so I ended up making a version of the NYW router table fence to clamp onto my TS fence.(picture below) This allows me to put the fence on either side also. I have to remove/reinstall it everytime, and that is only thing I hate about the set up.... If I could mount it far enough way from the TS blade, I would probably fabricate a separate fence for it.

















I usually use 2 clamps to clamp on the fence, but just have one for illustration purposes.


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## robchronos (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks for all of the comments. I ended up springing for the Bench Dog cast iron extension (I found a decent price on amazonsupply.com). I like that I can use the fence on either side of the extension and the fence itself seems to be a bit nicer than the MLCS version. 

It's more than I originally planned on spending, but hopefully it'll be the last router table I'll ever have to buy. Plus, I'm the kind of guy who over-researches these kinds of purchases. Sometimes, I need to just buy the stupid thing so I can stop researching it :smile:


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