# Miter saw station questions



## ScottF (Jan 19, 2021)

I started woodworking about 9 months ago. Over time I realized my current shop layout is not efficient and is frustrating. I am blowing it up and one of the projects is to build a new miter station.

With my old station I am/was constantly frustrated by not being able to accurately get the miter and both fences to line up perfectly. While I am not making jewelry boxes, I wanted everything to be as square as possible. On my first station I used angle iron for a backer behind some Rockler guides (saw that on YouTube, thought that seemed stable). See picture (yeah-this was a beginning attempt at a miter station so ignore the construction).















Despite lots of attempts, I could not figure out how to align the entire set up. One side might be aligned to the fence, but then from one blue Rockler guide across the face of the saw to the other it is not aligned. So I unscrew it, adjust and then it throws something else out.

I have watched tons of YouTube videos on different set ups looking to see how others did it. I have not seen anyone with any better way to make micro adjustments to make sure everything is perfect. Most users are just having simple wood screws into the bottom plywood (which is not super accurate/easy to make adjustments later). I tried rounding out the holes of the steel plate and that helped, but again not perfect.

Is this whole set up just engineered wrong? Would using a wood backer and replacing the blue Rocker 3" track with a top T track be better? Lastly, do I really need to buy a $100 36" woodpecker straight edge to align this all (I have been using a metal 4' level-I have not found a use for a $100 straight edge yet)?

Any recommendations?


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## DustyDan (Dec 21, 2020)

Good questions. I’m interested in the responses I because I have similar questions. When I set up my primitive miter station I had thoughts of including long fences. I thought the purposes of the long fence was more as a place to mount a stop for repetitive cuts and not alignment. I rarely have a long piece that is actually true. The way I looked at it was that the longer fence would most likelyknock things out of alignment more then helping. My ultimate goal is to make accurate cuts and I’ve been satisfied with my accuracy by only using the stock fence on my saw and focusing on tuning the blade to the fence.

if I ever add a longer fence to incorporate t-slots for stops, I think I would set that fence at least a 1/4” back to account for variations in my Long stock. I have never needed parts longer then about 4 feet so maybe I’m using my miter station differently.

just a thought.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Your miter saw fence and wood fence should not align. You should only rely on the miter saw fence only for accurate cuts..


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## mangorockfish (Feb 27, 2017)

This is what I've done to make my miter saw picture frame jig. I'm not at home so no pics but will try to explain the best I can. First of all, I am a rank beginner so others can comment positive or negative on what I've done. First I bought a $60 sheet of maple faced plywood 3/4". Damn that hurt! I cut a strip 6" wide and 8' long. Now I have my saw on one of those roll around stands so I ran the arms out as far as they would go to support the length the best I could. I laid this 6" piece on the bed and attached a 3" X 8' piece for the fence on it with glue and nails then screwed the 3" piece to the miter saw fence on both sides. I had installed two 36" mini t-tracks end to end to have a 72" track in the 6" bottom for a sliding stop block. I located the fence so I have 72" on the left and 24" on the right. I then cut a 45" through the fence. And the stop block has a 45 on the end of it with a 72" tape on the fence for my inside frame length. The 45 is the only cut in this fence. 
You could just install a 3 or 4" fence all the way across your saw and make two 45* cuts and a 90* and then install you t-tracks and everything should be aligned.


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## ScottF (Jan 19, 2021)

Interesting. You guys are right. No piece of wood I have ever cut is perfect straight. I have also noticed that the longer fence throws off the cut because the wood may be touching the ends of the 3' fence more than the center at the miter fence.

Well this build just got a lot easier!


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

I use fishing line stretched end-to-end of the 'lengthened' fence, with a block of wood to check spacing all along the fence.

hooked lumber/stock is a different issue I can't speak to. I've never adjusted a fence to out-of-whack in order to cut crooked pieces straight....


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## ScottF (Jan 19, 2021)

@Rebelwork 
I do now agree with this statement:
Your miter saw fence and wood fence should not align. You should only rely on the miter saw fence only for accurate cuts..

But for sake of argument. If the miter saw fence is your alignment tool why do we even have wood fences then? Plus, like more expensive jointers that have larger tables for better jointing, why don't more expensive miter saws have larger bases and fences to better ensure that you are getting a perfectly square cut?

BTW, what are the orange handles in front of your saw in the picture?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

ScottF said:


> @Rebelwork
> I do now agree with this statement:
> Your miter saw fence and wood fence should not align. You should only rely on the miter saw fence only for accurate cuts..
> 
> ...


so we can use this

keep things from sliding forward and in the way. Easier to put a board up and get somewhat lined with the saw...Some operators with put a relief in the wood for sawdust. I eliminate this problem altogether ..


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

My original saw that burned up and was replaced by the Makita?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

The red handles are edge clamps. I use them for counter tops.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

@Rebelwork do you ever clamp the work piece in the saw?


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

No... I'll clamp a sacrificial fence on if needed...


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## DustyDan (Dec 21, 2020)

I see no real reason for longer fences on a miter saw. Having something to clamp a stop block is handy for repetitive cuts. Maybe something to support crown molding? IDK.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

If you have two separate stands, supports, tables, etc. and they are NOT connected, it may be a little more difficult aligning them, BUT not impossible. There are several methods, a long straight edge, or a taunt line on 1" stand offs at each end, but once they are in position they need to be secured either in place. So, a base plate is required under or behind them both to keep them aligned. A base plate will also be required to support the miter saw. Then the next step is to slide the miter saw fence up to it and secure the miter saw in place, checking for parallel along the length. A six foot aluminum level would be what I would use, because I have one. A 10 ft section of sliding door track is my other choice, but it may not be a precise as the level. I also have steel sections and bars that are 10 ft long as well as a 2" square aluminum extrusion 10 ft long. So, I have several good choices that I have acquired over many years of needing a good straight edge.
The debate as to whether you need a long fence on a miter saw "station" is by definition, YES. If it's a job site saw and will often be moved around, then a sacrificial fence will be as good as you can do. I have a 6 ft long fence on my Radial Arm saw because I wanted the greater "stop" capacity and I like the longer reference for support.


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

I put t-track flush in the benchtop and made several flip stops that I can slide along the 14' benchtop. I got the idea from the Woodwhisperer and would say that I absolutely agree that a long fence is unnecessary and actually worse in some ways. The only fence you need is on your saw itself. The more important thing is that the benchtop and saw table are all perfectly flat.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Cabinet and commercial makers need a long fence. We need repeatability...Why I use a Beisemeyer miter stop.

I have 16' left and 8' right.


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

Yup, repeatability is absolutely necessary, but with a flip stop in the bench you get the unnecessary fence out of the way, the repeatability you want when you want it. and the ability to momentarily get the stop out of the way to make a different cut and then flip it back in place whenever you want. I'll try to post some pics of my bench later, but it's very similar to Marks in the video I posted. IMO a flat bench with tracks flush in the top and flip stops is the only way to go. I'd never put a fence in the way after using this set up for over a year now.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Unless your using an expensive flip stop we found them useless and inaccurate and they twist.

We don't need to "flip" it up as we cut from the largest to the smallest. This is why we have cutlists...

All parts are cut and numbered. We don't do one frame at a time..we don't do one door at a time.

Cabinet and commercial cabinet makers don't play in the shop. It's all about production..

There are production stops that are spring loaded and fixed. This way it can be left year around, locked with an Allen Head . This way if I need to cut a 36" I don't need to move the 30", I simple using the part and push the 30" spring loaded setting in...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Maintenance Man said:


> I put t-track flush in the benchtop and made several flip stops that I can slide along the 14' benchtop. I got the idea from the Woodwhisperer and would say that I absolutely agree that a long fence is unnecessary and actually worse in some ways. The only fence you need is on your saw itself. The more important thing is that the benchtop and saw table are all perfectly flat.


Did you put T-tracks in but only use them for the stops? What's the actual length of the mitersaw fence, about 24", 12" or so on each side?
Let's say you have to trim or miter a end of a workpiece that's 8 ft long and you only have 12" of fence to register it against.
Would you agree that the longer the fence, the greater the length that will register against it? Why would this not contribute to greater accuracy, especially on longer pieces? The same accuracy principle would apply to crosscutting on a mitergauge with the OEM face, and no extended face. All my mitergauges have extended fences , not only for the accuracy, but the visiblity of the saw kerf for alignment and the ability to push the cut off and the workpiece beyond the blade. Granted, on a mitersaw the blade moves, not the fence so it's not exactly the same in all regards.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

Seems the Biesemeyer mitersaw stop has been discontinued, and reviews say the available clone isn't very good. So make your own.

I have T track in the table to one side of the saw, I place a stop along it as needed.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Beisemeyer isn't selling them anymore, I'm still on the hunt for used ones. Even used not cheap. They are more expensive systems used now but there in the $200 dollar range. 

I bought the clone type at the woodworking show. There okay and work but the reader was magnified and hard to read. At that time the woodworking show sold the for $10-$15 each.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I tried this system and it was useless


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## DustyDan (Dec 21, 2020)

Seems like if the miter saw fence is as long as the entire stock you are cutting, then any imperfection along the length will knock the piece out of 90 degree alignment. However, on the table saw miter, the piece is moving. The added fence length gives more surface to stabilize the moving piece in relationship to the stationary blade. The cuts made on a table saw are typically shorter pieces whereas most cuts at the miter station are long boards. Two different setup criteria.


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

Ok, I took the time to clean up and take some pics. Here's my setup. Mark says it all best in the video above. I highly recommend anyone about to build a miter bench watch it. I just don't find that I'm always working with laser straight material especially in really long lengths. Not having a long fence has already proved beneficial more than once. The most important fence is the one on your saw. This is all very similar to Marks set-up except I did add a micro adjuster to my stops.










If you look at the wall to the left there's a hole allowing longer boards to pass into the next room. I have a small shop but make the best out of it.










I routed a dado and set the t-track just barely beneath the bench surface all along the bench. The diy flip-stop works great. Glides like butter with some paste wax and doesn't twist. I used 1" aluminum bar stock from my hardware store for the stop and did bevel the bottom edge to help with dust buildup. I do recomend that highly. I wouldn't say, hardware and all this was expensive.










Repeatability and easily gets out of the way to square up a longer board or whatever the case may be. 










The walnut runners set inside the track and keep it from twisting. I made several of these so I can set up multiple positions at the same time.










I also took the time to make a micro adjuster for each side too. If I want to sneak up on a cut I can crank the knob on the end to get it just right. Honestly I don't use this much, but it's nice to have.









The wooden handle under the saw operates the blast gate behind it. If you notice the holes in the bench it's for a small downdraft area Dust collection flows under the bench and up and around both sides of the saw .The router table under the bench raises up when I need it and stores out of the way when not in use. I recently rearranged the slat-wall for some parallel clamps in the near future. All-inall I've been very happy with this set up. It's worked a lot better than what I've done in the past.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Ever used one of these? I can cut all day and never need a measure..


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> Did you put T-tracks in but only use them for the stops? What's the actual length of the mitersaw fence, about 24", 12" or so on each side?
> Let's say you have to trim or miter a end of a workpiece that's 8 ft long and you only have 12" of fence to register it against.
> Would you agree that the longer the fence, the greater the length that will register against it? Why would this not contribute to greater accuracy, especially on longer pieces?


In a perfect world the workpiece would always be dead straight even if it was 100 feet long, in which case a long auxiliary fence would help you register everything faster and never be in the way. That's just not always the case. Especially with longer lumber. Trim and molding would be a good example. I can keep the trim tight to the saw at the fence if it's a bowed workpiece, make a good miter cut, and push the bow out when tacking it up. I've had plenty of curved/warped pieces where an auxliary fence was either useless or in the way. This is by no means the majority of the material that I work with, but it does happen often enough. Two or three years ago I might not of thought of it that way, but I do agree with the Woodwhisperer on this one. This is a better mouse trap...


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

Rebelwork said:


> Ever used one of these? I can cut all day and never need a measure..



I can't say that I've used that actual stop, but it looks like it works great for you. I had a similar one I used quite a bit. I've also screwed a block of scrap to the benchin the past, in order to make repeatable cuts. Whatever it takes. I was planning to put some adhesive tape measure on my benchtop at some point. The whole shop is still a work in progress.


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## DustyDan (Dec 21, 2020)

Rebelwork said:


> Ever used one of these? I can cut all day and never need a measure..
> View attachment 424786
> View attachment 424787


Rebel..... that looks pretty cool. Looks like it moves from left side to right side as needed. Is that correct? I’ve seen some pretty good ideas for stop blocks in this thread.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Glides like it's on air.

I've worked at shops that stapled and screwed blocks down for setups.

Yea it works great for me and every cabinet shop out there unless they have a tiger stop with an automated stop.

I tried the homemadd setups. Waste of my time and money..

Cabinet makers like to spend time on jigs and patterns to maximize production, but miter stops well just buy...


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