# Goal: Don't go down the Harbor Freight/Northern Tool/etc. road unless necessary.



## TCWood (Aug 27, 2010)

First off, it's feeling awkward referring to my decently set up and stocked workshop in Florida as "My shop in Florida" or "My other shop", so, from now on if it's ok, I'm going to just call it "Shop 1", and what I'm building right now is "Shop 2", even if it is temporary--for a year and a half.

Anyways, I haven't posted in the power tool section for a bit, but since I did, I've bought a number of other items for Shop 2 and have gotten to work building a nice laminated hard maple workbench for it. In fact, I'm putting the effort in to make it nice enough so that it will get moved to Shop 1 when I move again.

*But getting to the question*... When I built Shop 1, I built it primarily using Sears Craftsman brand stationary tools, Harbor Freight shop storage stuff (cabinets, tool chests, etc.), a few Northern Tool items like bench grinders and buffers, and my cordless and corded non-stationary power tools are Black and Decker and Skil brand. My non-critical hand tools are ok, a lot of Stanley brand stuff, and really I put my money into my turning tools, all Robert Sorby, with a Sorby sharpening unit, some specialty turning items from Woodcraft, Rockler, Penn State, and a few other places. A few things to say about that:


Summed up - I took a very small budget and ended up with a shop setup that ended up working decently.
The Craftsman stuff isn't _total _garbage, but I can tell it's not going to last me a lifetime, and in fact if it wasn't for extended warranties, I'd already have paid a bunch for parts that realistically shouldn't physically possible of breakage, yet they broke during normal use.
The Harbor Freight stuff seemed to be hit or miss. I have a 1 ton shop press that I rarely use, but when I need it - it gets the job done, as does the Forstner bit set I bought there. The cabinets turned out to be a great deal though, and while they're not fancy, they do the job of keeping strangers away from my hand tools. On the other hand, a small 1x30 or so bench belt sander that I bought for knife and knife-handle work was such a joke that I took it apart and tossed everything but the motor, which I plan to use for something else eventually. There were a few other power tools from there early on that were just terrible. With that said, I am aware that some items there are literally identical to a brand name counterpart. Made by the same third party company, same design, same specs.
The Northern Tool stuff - NT seems more metal work and auto/mechanics related, nevertheless back when I was putting together Shop 1, they had a few tools, they technically work, but seem flimsy. *When they break I'll replace them with something better.*
That last line is my philosophy for Shop 1. *But here is what I'm wondering.* Shop 2 is a very different beast. Far more hand power tools, far more hand tools (non-power), in fact - no stationary power tools other than Foredom units and a Fein Turbo II.


I've gotten a lot of what I need for Shop 2 over the last few days, as I've been on Spring break. Everything so far is name-brand with a heavy emphasis on Makita, Bosch, and Foredom (pics to come :laughing:eventually for those who will undoubtedly demand them ). Today, I'm making a run to the lumber yard for some more wood for building my bench, and to a few more stores for tools, tool accessories, etc. I didn't set a fixed budget, but I had a "goal" in mind as to how much I was ok with spending on this.


My personal dilemma is the following. I learned not to go down the HF/NT/etc. road before and like I said, as tools in Shop 1 die, they'll be replaced with nicer tools. Here in Shop 2, I wanted to get nice stuff, so that when Shop 1 and Shop 2 eventually merge, I'm not adding a pile of more stuff to get replaced - but instead quality tools. * Yesterday I reached the aforementioned "goal" as far as how much I wanted to spend. * I would say there's still probably ~$1,000 worth of stuff to get. Some of it can't be avoided as there are no substitutes. Some of it though, I could save on by going down the HF road.


Keeping in mind that the monetary amount was a "goal" rather than an official budget, should I finish this out the right way. As some people say, I think, "Buy it right or buy it twice."?? Or, should I finish it off with a bunch of inexpensive low quality imports?


One thing I was thinking, was that a good portion of the remaining amount was for clamps, lots of them. I could split this - power tools and the like - quality.... clamps and the like - HF? Or I could just go with quality all the way.


Anyways, thoughts on this would be appreciated. I'll be heading out to the lumber yard now, but I can see replies on my phone. Thanks!
:smile:


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## STAR (Jan 1, 2008)

I am in Oz so you have to take that into account. To answer your query properly one would have to walk in your shoes.

One would also need to know how one is travelling financially. That is a private matter for you to determine. it's alright saying buy quality, and buy once and if you are travelling ok then so be it.

Me, at the moment would try to work out a cost / return benefit. Some tools we do not need great accuracy, eg, an angle grinder, and it may only get used in bursts then put away. Angle grinders here range from $15, $20 up to $180.00.

For me I have a few with one permanently set aside for my woodcarving.

Some tools need more accuracy, so those would need a bit more spent on them. Others might need more durability. The important thing is if money is tight to remember what the tools are going to be used for, work out if they are appropriate, and go for it.

I could not afford all the things required in a well fitted shop, so mine is a mixture on top quality new, top quality second hand stock, and then fill the dots in with cheaper items. 

You do not have to be a tool snob in this game.

Pete


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Check it often:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27192&highlight=harbor+freight+pass+fail


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Personally I think it's hit or miss with any brand of tools. At least with Harbor Freight they will take anything back without question or red tape. I sometimes shop at Northern Tool but I find they have much the same stuff as Harbor Freight and are more expensive. I've also bought my share of name brand tools and equipment and the only one marked off my list is Rockwell Delta.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I have to give full disclosure, I am not a fan of HF. I can therefore be accused of being biased.

I am not able to recall regretting purchasing a quality tool. Some have been passed on, but they gave me good service until I later upgraded.

I have many regrets about purchasing lower quality tools. In some cases because they break, but in most cases, the design or lack of features takes a lot of the enjoyment out of my woodworking hobby.

An example. I have a number of 3/4in Pony pipe clamps in various lengths. I expect you will purchase some of these due to the low cost.

These clamps were very useful when I was studding out walls, adding my extension.

Once I started to make cutting boards and more "delicate" projects, these clamps were not so easy to use. They have a tendency to cause the boards to not be flat due to the nature of the design. The jaws are slightly angled. I know this can be worked around by having one clamp on top and one on the bottom, but this is a hassle.

I later invested in Jet parallel clamps, and these work very well and are a pleasure to use.

I purchased an Irwin parallel clamp. It is not a pleasure to use, so this sits on the floor out of the way gathering dust.

I could not have afforded to purchase all the tools I have at the start. I have typically tried to purchase something which looks to last and which has the features I desire at the time.

Sometimes new tools comes along. I have a Bosch 10 SCMS also gathering dust. It worked well, except for awful dust collection. I replaced it with the 12in Glider when this came out. I really like the Glider, but this did not exist when I purchased the 10in machine.

I purchased a RAS in 1983. This also served me well until I passed it onto a friend since it was not being used after I purchased the Glider and once I purchased a lathe, I needed the floor space.

I have some new Veritas hand planes which I love. I could not justify purchasing Lie Nielsen hand planes, even though they are perhaps better quality than the Veritas. I know the Veritas planes will last my lifetime.

I have recently started to restore vintage Stanley hand planes. These become useful additions to the shop, and also give me a lot of satisfaction to return a tool to have a second life.

If I were in your shoes I would be looking to purchase tools which will be decent quality and have the design/features I need and ones which will be pleasant to use.

If you can afford the best, terrific, but there are frequently options which are good quality but not the best. I would just not use price alone as the criteria.


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## Art Smith (Oct 16, 2012)

Personally I woud look at the tools as an investment. If the tool is something that will be used for many future projects then I would invest in a high quality item. If it is a one time tool to get through a single current project then you may consider an inexpensive alternative. I feel that there is a difference in a cheap product and an inexpensive one. Cheap is a level of quality which is never a good deal. Inexpensive is a level of cost which in some cases can be a great deal.Good luck


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

In that situation I would buy what I need when I need it so I could focus on a quality tool I could afford. I think the Jorgensen clamps at Home Depot are not too expensive and I would get those over the HF clamps. Pipe clamps are not too expensive either and do a great job (3/4") so if you need to save money get good quality pipe clamps to start until you can fill it out later. You can also make your own quality hand tools to get them at a cheaper price. Check out bigben's thread http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/dovetail-saw-winsor-kit-build-pic-heavy-49385/ and many others. Of course there is also restoring older tools of better quality than most new.

Get a good vise for your bench too (at least one). I think you will find $1,000 won't go as far as you think on quality tools which is why I stress getting the tools you need when you need them. And let's face it, you'll never be done buying tools!

Just read Dave's comments on pipe clamps. Depends on what you want to build and how you clamp up. Can do with over/under clamp pattern or with the use of cauls. No question K-clamps are extremely useful. They are also very expensive so maybe when you can add them...


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> I have to give full disclosure, I am not a fan of HF. I can therefore be accused of being biased.
> 
> I am not able to recall regretting purchasing a quality tool. Some have been passed on, but they gave me good service until I later upgraded.
> 
> ...


Dave
If you have stuff you bought you are not pleased with and they are gathering dust you can send them to me for a new and loving home:laughing:


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## TCWood (Aug 27, 2010)

STAR said:


> I am in Oz so you have to take that into account. To answer your query properly one would have to walk in your shoes.
> 
> One would also need to know how one is travelling financially. That is a private matter for you to determine. it's alright saying buy quality, and buy once and if you are travelling ok then so be it.


That's the thing, financially - I could finish this by buying precisely what I want, from the brand I want. On the other hand, I'm mentally debating if I'll feel good about it if I do though.



STAR said:


> Me, at the moment would try to work out a cost / return benefit. Some tools we do not need great accuracy, eg, an angle grinder, and it may only get used in bursts then put away. Angle grinders here range from $15, $20 up to $180.00.
> 
> For me I have a few with one permanently set aside for my woodcarving.


I took care of the angle grinders. Got 2 at a great price. The model I wanted an everything. Both are for woodcarving. I got one to be permanently set up for an Arbortech Industrial carver, and the other for everything else.



STAR said:


> Some tools need more accuracy, so those would need a bit more spent on them. Others might need more durability. The important thing is if money is tight to remember what the tools are going to be used for, work out if they are appropriate, and go for it.
> 
> I could not afford all the things required in a well fitted shop, so mine is a mixture on top quality new, top quality second hand stock, and then fill the dots in with cheaper items.
> 
> ...


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## TCWood (Aug 27, 2010)

Art Smith said:


> Personally I woud look at the tools as an investment. If the tool is something that will be used for many future projects then I would invest in a high quality item. If it is a one time tool to get through a single current project then you may consider an inexpensive alternative. I feel that there is a difference in a cheap product and an inexpensive one. Cheap is a level of quality which is never a good deal. *Inexpensive is a level of cost which in some cases can be a great deal.*Good luck


Totally in agreement.



Shop Dad said:


> In that situation I would buy what I need when I need it so I could focus on a quality tool I could afford. I think the Jorgensen clamps at Home Depot are not too expensive and I would get those over the HF clamps. Pipe clamps are not too expensive either and do a great job (3/4") so if you need to save money get good quality pipe clamps to start until you can fill it out later. You can also make your own quality hand tools to get them at a cheaper price. Check out bigben's thread http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/dovetail-saw-winsor-kit-build-pic-heavy-49385/ and many others. Of course there is also restoring older tools of better quality than most new.
> 
> Get a good vise for your bench too (at least one). I think you will find $1,000 won't go as far as you think on quality tools which is why I stress getting the tools you need when you need them. And let's face it, you'll never be done buying tools!
> 
> Just read Dave's comments on pipe clamps. Depends on what you want to build and how you clamp up. Can do with over/under clamp pattern or with the use of cauls. No question K-clamps are extremely useful. They are also very expensive so maybe when you can add them...


I was going to build the vise for my bench. The Jorgensen (sp?) clamps at Home Depot looked like they were the same price as the Irwins. Which is better? I also noticed my local hardware store had a huge supply of both too, I'll have to compare prices.

I'm looking at cauls, not sure how much I would trust one. I did see something particularly interesting. A clamping jig sold by Woodcraft that's relatively inexpensive and just requires some 2x2's. That seems like I could probably get away with 2-3 of those for my first clamp-requiring project.



mengtian said:


> Dave
> If you have stuff you bought you are not pleased with and they are gathering dust you can send them to me for a new and loving home:laughing:


This reminded me that I have some tools that I do want to get rid of. It's junk, but it might bring in a few bucks.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

TCWood said:


> STAR said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. I've liked Irwin clamps when I've used them, now I'm curious about the JET clamps. They sound like they're out of my price range, but I'll take a look.
> ...


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

mengtian said:


> Dave
> If you have stuff you bought you are not pleased with and they are gathering dust you can send them to me for a new and loving home:laughing:


Feel free to drive to PA and pick them up. I found out how much time and effort it takes to package tools when I sent the Delta planer to Marv. I spent days figuring out how to dis-assemble in order to fit in two boxes which were within the USPS weight limit. Happy to say the boxes arrived without damage to the contents. It was an interesting learning, but not one I want to repeat.

The remaining heavy items are the Bosch 10in SCMS and a bench mounted Radial Drill press. The Irwin parallel clamp is 30in long. This would be a hassle to package and ship. Too big for a flat rate box.


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> Feel free to drive to PA and pick them up. I found out how much time and effort it takes to package tools when I sent the Delta planer to Marv. I spent days figuring out how to dis-assemble in order to fit in two boxes which were within the USPS weight limit. Happy to say the boxes arrived without damage to the contents. It was an interesting learning, but not one I want to repeat.
> 
> The remaining heavy items are the Bosch 10in SCMS and a bench mounted Radial Drill press. The Irwin parallel clamp is 30in long. This would be a hassle to package and ship. Too big for a flat rate box.


I was just kidding LOL....But I would be interested in any planes that come your way. I have been realy getting more and more into handtools.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm of the "buy it once and and buy it right" camp. I'll admit that it may mean different things to different people. 

It's sort of like " If you don't have time to do it right the first time, where are you going to find the time to do it over?"


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## bradnailer (Nov 11, 2008)

My theory is, if the tool is gonna be a workhorse in my shop then I'll spend the extra money and get a high quality one within my budget. However, if it is something that is handy to have but not used as much, I'll go with HF or possibly a reconditioned tool. For example, I have a Dewalt cordless trim saw that I bought reconditioned. I don't use it alot but when I need it, it is handy to have and the reconditioned tool has performed well.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Since I am a retired hobbyist, some of my tools are HF models, others are brand name. It appears they are all (or most of them) made in China. :-(

I use the F-style clamps a lot, especially the 6 inchers. I buy a couple every time I go into the HF store. They are cheap but work well. I use them to clamp stuff to my workbench or table. Just can't seem to have enough clamps! 

The 1 x 30 inch belt sander is not a whiz-bang-pow piece of machinery but it sands things that I need to sand. I also have the oscillating sander and it works well also.

The 2 hp dust collector is working well for me.

Several tools that get a lot of use are the Dewalt orbital sander and the Dewalt 12v drill/driver and impact driver. These little tools are real workhorses.

My nailers/staplers are a Bosch 18ga brad nailer and 1/4 inch crown stapler. The circular saw is a Makita magnesium base model that works really well.

Power tools - Grizzly 1023RLW table saw and G0555LX band saw and Dewalt DW634 planer.

So, I have a variety of tools and they all perform up to my standards (whatever that may be).


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Ok, what do you want - Harbor Freight, Delta, Porter-cable, etc - different colors, different prices, *SAME MACHINE*.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> ...
> I use the F-style clamps a lot, especially the 6 inchers. I buy a couple every time I go into the HF store. They are cheap but work well. I use them to clamp stuff to my workbench or table. Just can't seem to have enough clamps!
> ...


me too. these are perfectly fine for what i need. the longer ones can tend to bow under pressure, but the short ones are every bit as solid as i need.


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## TCWood (Aug 27, 2010)

Dave Paine said:


> I have a number of the Irwin Quick clamps. These do not get used much anymore since I purchased the parallel clamps.
> 
> Irwin also came out with a parallel clamp design to compete with Bessey. I do not like that I cannot use the Irwin clamp with the moveable jaw above the fixed jaw (upside down to some folks) single handed. The moveable jaw drops. Sometimes I really need to use things single handed.
> 
> ...


While I was in my local hardware store to swap out some defective Makita clamps (the ones for the rail system), I had an opportunity to take a look at the JET parallel clamps. They do look nice. Apparently they sell a package for ~$150 with 2x ~48" and 2x ~24" along with some plastic hardware for holding them in position with the jaw opening facing upwards and a couple benchdogs. I did the math while there, at the prices that store sells other parallel clamps, they didn't seem to be any more expensive actually. So, I'll keep them in mind.



sawdustfactory said:


> I'm of the "buy it once and and buy it right" camp. I'll admit that it may mean different things to different people.
> 
> It's sort of like " If you don't have time to do it right the first time, where are you going to find the time to do it over?"


Well, I understand where you're coming from. For me it's a little different. Starting out, I didn't always know what was "right". More importantly though, when starting out, I felt it was more important that spread my budget out and build a shop. I could have gotten a super high-quality bandsaw and large super high-quality stationary belt sander and blown my budget on those two - but there's not much I'd be able to do. 

I think perhaps a good analogy is guns and bullets in a hypothetical battle. So, you've got a tiny budget, and you're at war. With who? I don't know, it's not important. So, your army consists of 5 people, yourself included, and you need guns and ammo. You have barely any money though. So what do you do? You can buy a whole bunch of incredibly inexpensive ammo that might not be the world's best, but it works... or you can buy 1x 20 round box of premium ammunition with nickel cases, low flash and smokeless powder, and bullets that are each hand turned from solid copper on a lathe. As for guns, you can buy some inexpensive polymer based pistols (why this battle is handgun based, I don't know - it's just an analogy), or you can buy precision 1911s that each cost as much as 3-4 polymer frame based pistols. So, your budget allows arming all 5 of your men with guns that, aren't perhaps the best, but work and loading those guns with plenty of ammo that again - it's not match grade, but it works... OR... arming 1-2 of your men (presumably yourself amongst that number) with high quality precision firearms (or perhaps just a single firearm) and a tiny amount of ammunition. Which do you choose? I think it's obvious.

As woodworkers, we're not at war, but starting out, you could take that money from the high quality bandsaw and belt sander, and spread it out so you have more than just 2 tools, you have a basic shop. That's what I did. The idea being, that after I had a shop, as things would either break, or need to be upgraded, I'd replace them one by one with quality. At all times you still have a fully functional shop, you just don't have a shop filled with le creme de le creme of the tool world for some time.

The situation I'm in is somewhat different though. I have a shop. I just don't have access to it for a while. In building a second workspace, the last thing I want to do is duplicate any low quality tools I have at my other shop, and the second to last thing that I want to do is add more low-quality tools to one day be replaced (because eventually shop 1 and shop 2 will be merged). So, I've been trying to only get tools that - come the day the shops merge - will replace their low quality counterparts, or have no counterpart. It's a weird situation.

I should mention - I found a solution to the problem I posed initially. :smile:

For the record - I just want to be clear - I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you though. 



bradnailer said:


> My theory is, if the tool is gonna be a workhorse in my shop then I'll spend the extra money and get a high quality one within my budget. However, if it is something that is handy to have but not used as much, I'll go with HF or possibly a reconditioned tool. For example, I have a Dewalt cordless trim saw that I bought reconditioned. I don't use it alot but when I need it, it is handy to have and the reconditioned tool has performed well.


Makes sense. Although I'm trying to limit this second shop to only items that will be routinely used. If this shop had a theme, it would be versatility, as a lot of what I've been getting can do more than one job.



MT Stringer said:


> Since I am a retired hobbyist, some of my tools are HF models, others are brand name. It appears they are all (or most of them) made in China. :-(
> 
> I use the F-style clamps a lot, especially the 6 inchers. I buy a couple every time I go into the HF store. They are cheap but work well. I use them to clamp stuff to my workbench or table. Just can't seem to have enough clamps!
> 
> ...





Alchymist said:


> Ok, what do you want - Harbor Freight, Delta, Porter-cable, etc - different colors, different prices, *SAME MACHINE*.


Not arguing with you on that. From the first post:



TCWood said:


> With that said, I am aware that some items there are literally identical to a brand name counterpart. Made by the same third party company, same design, same specs.





Chris Curl said:


> me too. these are perfectly fine for what i need. the longer ones can tend to bow under pressure, but the short ones are every bit as solid as i need.


Well, I have a need to go into a Harbor Freight, so I'll check these F clamps out. It dawned on me that there was one item on my list that I won't need when I merge the shop I'm building with the shop I have, so therefore I'm going to spend next to nothing on it - HF makes a version that's like $10, multiply that by 4 = $40... compare that to ~$500 for the one I was going to get.

That's part of how I fixed this. The other part was that I decided to just build my shop bench from the bottom up and not rely on the Kreg or Rockwell metal frames for workbenches. This made my trip to lumberyard more expensive (it was originally planned to be about $60 worth of lumber, but ended up being $211), but between the two I'm only a bit over the amount of money I wanted to spend, and it's not enough to worry about. :thumbsup:


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

TCWood said:


> I think perhaps a good analogy is guns and bullets in a hypothetical battle. So, you've got a tiny budget, and you're at war. With who? I don't know, it's not important. So, your army consists of 5 people, yourself included, and you need guns and ammo. You have barely any money though. So what do you do? You can buy a whole bunch of incredibly inexpensive ammo that might not be the world's best, but it works... or you can buy 1x 20 round box of premium ammunition with nickel cases, low flash and smokeless powder, and bullets that are each hand turned from solid copper on a lathe. As for guns, you can buy some inexpensive polymer based pistols (why this battle is handgun based, I don't know - it's just an analogy), or you can buy precision 1911s that each cost as much as 3-4 polymer frame based pistols. So, your budget allows arming all 5 of your men with guns that, aren't perhaps the best, but work and loading those guns with plenty of ammo that again - it's not match grade, but it works... OR... arming 1-2 of your men (presumably yourself amongst that number) with high quality precision firearms (or perhaps just a single firearm) and a tiny amount of ammunition. Which do you choose? I think it's obvious.


If that's the way you see it then I think you have answered your question. Personally, I'll outfit myself with decent quality for the battle I need to fight rather than the whole war. That could very well mean dusting off some old gear rather than buying cheap new. Wouldn't do our troops much good if their equipment broke down and only half the bullets worked now would it!


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## TCWood (Aug 27, 2010)

Shop Dad said:


> If that's the way you see it then I think you have answered your question.


No, not really, because I'm not just starting up. It's a weird, somewhat unusual situation here.

Fortunately, I figured out a solution that allows me to buy quality for what counts. The only thing that I plan to buy from HF is a zip-wall setup. I'm unlikely to have a need for it when I move out of my current living situation.



Shop Dad said:


> Wouldn't do our troops much good if their equipment broke down and only half the bullets worked now would it!


touché


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## Bill White 2 (Jun 23, 2012)

I will only say that "ya pays your money and ya takes your chances".
My shop is based on period C'man, current Grizz, DeWalt, old Stanley, Makita, older Porter Cable (US made), and various QUALITY hand tools.
It is a shame that some of the former quality brands have taken such a "dive" to meet a price point.
Oh well....................:blink:
Bill


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## Glassnwood (Jan 29, 2012)

Alchymist said:


> Ok, what do you want - Harbor Freight, Delta, Porter-cable, etc - different colors, different prices, *SAME MACHINE*.


I'll take my 30 year old Grizzly thank you very much. It still works perfect...well er... almost. It has gotten louder for some reason.:laughing:


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Harbor Freight:$39.99, Grizzly $68.99 - ??? :icon_smile::smile::icon_smile:


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## dustmagnet (Jul 12, 2012)

I never understood why people get stuck on a name brand, every company that sells a tool could give a rats behind about you. I don't care if they have the " best customer service", if it's a " quality " tool, why are you having to deal with CS ? I don't want to get into a pi$$in contest, I'm just saying that some of the people getting into woodworking don't have the funds to go buy the "name brand" tools. If the exact same thing with another name on it exists, buy it if you want it! I have name brand tools and some no name tools. After a piece is finished, I promise you can't tell what brand tool or finish is used, ain't gonna happen.......


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## L1011 (Feb 18, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> I use the F-style clamps a lot, especially the 6 inchers. I buy a couple every time I go into the HF store. They are cheap but work well. I use them to clamp stuff to my workbench or table. Just can't seem to have enough clamps!


I agree. I think their f-style clamps are very good and a great value. $3.99 for a 6" is hard to beat. That being said, I do feel a bit guilty of supporting China, but that's another subject for some other day. 

I have the HF plate jointer and its ok for $47. For what I need it for it was really hard to justify a $200+ Porter Cable.


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## lepenseur (Mar 26, 2013)

*HF quality / price*

:smile: Ive read some real negatives per Harbor Freight. If you can not
differentiate between good value and name brand...then definitely avoid
HF. I use welding gear, grinders, lathes on a daily basis. I have the JET mini lathe with variable speed and a HF mini lathe that cost about one third what the JET cost. While the JET has a few more features, the HF
lathe is an EXCELLENT value...especially for an entry level user. If you are not sure of the quality...then try the tool and return it if you find it unsatisfactory...a full refund...how can your beat that. I have Miller, Lincoln, Craftsman(many over priced now !), SnapOn, New Britain and
many other name brands My HF electric die grinder cost about $30...my
Makita electric die grinder cost over $160...both perform well. A two
year extended warrantee on the HF was $9...exchange on failure..no 'send away' and wait for return per warrantee. By the way...many of the 'name' brands are manufactured in the same plant as the HF comparable tool.


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