# Finishing birch entertainment center- clear coat and blotchy stain?



## tallinstaller (Feb 14, 2009)

I am about to finish my entertainment center made of birch plywood with banding on edges and doors of solid stock birch. This is new wood.

My questions are about the blotchyness that some people encounter when finishing this wood and what would be the best clear coat to apply.

I have Sherwin Williams custom matched dark oil based stain and plan on staining tomorrow.

Should I use a pre stain conditioner before the stain? If so, what brand or does it really matter?

My wife wants this finish to stand up to anything so I've been thinking oil based poly. I do not have any spay equipment so it will have to be a brush on clear coat. What I'm looking at currently is Minwax oil based satin poly. Is there a better way to go for the clear coat? I am in a large metro area so I should have access to just about anything.

Thanks in advance for any advice and please respond quickly as i would like to start in the morning. Sorry about the short notice.

Jason


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

Jason, as many would tell you on here make sure you test on scraps first of course, I would definitely use the conditioner. Sherwin Williams should make their own I'd assume. I like to keep manufacturer's together, so using another won't be the worst thing to do, but why take the chance with your new wood. I've never used SW's stains, but they have to be better than Minwax. If you understand that some areas of grain are more dense than others than you'll see why the blotching occurs. Work steady pace and try not to overlap too much.

The poly will be fine for a durable finish.

Good luck.


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## tallinstaller (Feb 14, 2009)

Well, I just finished staining and turned out pretty darn good. 

I used Minwax Pre-stain and Sherwin Williams Sher-wood stain except I got in a hurry and when I turned it over to do the top I went right to staining and forgot to use the pre-stain but it looks good so I guess no big deal.......


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## tallinstaller (Feb 14, 2009)

I haven't done the doors yet but I had a couple of blocks of the solid stock for door stops on the main cab and they are the only part that is blotchy. I even used the pre-stain on them...

Any ideas to keep this from happening when I do the doors?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Go get the SW stain base. Apply it to the doors, wait at least 30 minutes. Wipe the stain on and immediately wipe it off. Try not to let it soak in. Only problem is it may not match what you already have. Experiment with this procedure and see if you can get it to work. The longer you let the stain sit the more it will blotch.


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## tallinstaller (Feb 14, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Go get the SW stain base. Apply it to the doors, wait at least 30 minutes. Wipe the stain on and immediately wipe it off. Try not to let it soak in. Only problem is it may not match what you already have. Experiment with this procedure and see if you can get it to work. The longer you let the stain sit the more it will blotch.


I went to SW for my pre-stain and they said they don't make one. They sell and say to use the Minwax.

I was told I should use mineral spirits to clean the wood before and between each coat of poly but when I used it before the poly it pulled some of my stain off. I'm restaining that piece. What should I use before the poly to clean? What should I use between coats?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I do ML Campbell, and I use there stain base as a conditioner. It is just stain with no color. SW has to have it. They just don't call it conditioner. MinWax conditioner is just there natural stain in a different container. And probably an inflated price.


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## Rob (Oct 31, 2006)

I just did a search and came up with this...Minwax product made by Sherwin Williams. Hmmmm...
http://yahoo.shoptoit.ca/shop/product--catId_1001247__locale_en__productId_3296885.html


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## tallinstaller (Feb 14, 2009)

That's interesting......

I just put on my first coat of poly. It started lifting the stain on the top where I had to restain even though the stain had dried for nine hours so I put it on very thick with minimal brush strokes. The other surfaces where I didn't have to restain did just fine with no smearing of the stain so I put very thin coats on those places.

I hope it turns out ok........


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

It's no secret that Sherwin Williams own Minwax, along with a host of other related companies. In fact, they own most paint manufacturing companies.
Jason,
next time, let the stain dry for a longer period of time before starting the finish coats. I would give it 24 hours. Follow the directions on your finish. I have never wiped between coats with thinner. Just lightly sand if they recommend it and wipe everything well with a good tack rag. Be careful with the oil poly putting on too thick of a coating. You may end up with some sags or runs in it. 
Mike Hawkins


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## tallinstaller (Feb 14, 2009)

Well, I now have two coats over the whole thing. The ones on all the surfaces but the top are verrrry thin coats (thin enough to dry vertical without any drips). The first coat on the top is, like I said, very thick and then the second is thin. 

Should I bother with poly on the underside of the piece as it will never be seen or touched or be able to be to get anything on it?

I plan on putting four coats on the top but do you think that two thin coats on all the surfaces but the top is sufficient? All the other Horizontal surfaces will have equipment on them and be behind doors.


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## tallinstaller (Feb 14, 2009)

How long should I wait after the last coat of poly before putting the piece to use? It is in my garage and the weather here is about 40 F - 75 F depending on the minute. If you've ever lived in Texas you know what I mean.......

I'm using a small space heater and keeping the door closed as much as posable so the temp in there is 60 F.


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## creative novice (Jul 25, 2008)

*poly coats*

tallinstaller: i am certainly not as experienced as these other guys, but, i have done quite a bit of stain/poly on refurbished antiques and on new wood. it has been my experience (and i usually use minwax as it is the most readily available) that when i have tried to get away with two coats...about a year later it looks bad, like it needs another coat (oil based). I only recently started to use the water based so i don't have the time gone by experience with that product and if i did, i probably used at least three coats based on the previous outcomes. i did just do-over my oak kitchen cabinets with minwax's marine (oil based) poly. i ran out of autum and stopped at two coats and at certain times of day i can see where there are places that definately need a third and probably a fourth coat, they almost appear as if they only had one coat that soaked right in! About 15 years ago i did some oak unfinished furniture for my daughters room and there again , however many coats i used, it wasn't enough. i do always try to put an additional coat on the horizontal surfaces to give extra protection to wear and tear from use and dusting! One thing you MUST do between coats is to lighlty sand, i use the black superfine grit sandpaper and a plate of water...dip a 4x4 piece of the sand paper in the water and lightly sand....making sure you are not sanding too much on the edges(i use my hands and avoid the corners and edges, just sanding up to them...if an edge feels bumpy i again, just use my hand and carefully lightly get it). i then use a lint free rag and damp wash the sand dust off, using consecutive clean to dry rags for a few swipes. then use the tack cloth....lightly, (the tack cloth has waxes or something(?) in it and if you press it you could transfer that to your piece. then it must dry before the next coat. Also, try to not go "back" while you are coating...these products have a sheen that comes to the surface and after it has been applied for a few minutes you remove that sheen when you "back brush" , easier said than done on large surface! I also use my handheld spot light (no matter how bright my workspace is) to review my poly coat as i go along and after i finish and then about 15 minutes later to check for drips and missed areas....:huh:MAYBE i don't apply finishes as they should be and if anyone here sees this i am open to correction! julie


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## zaruser (Feb 17, 2009)

*finishing wood*



tallinstaller said:


> How long should I wait after the last coat of poly before putting the piece to use? It is in my garage and the weather here is about 40 F - 75 F depending on the minute. If you've ever lived in Texas you know what I mean.......
> 
> I'm using a small space heater and keeping the door closed as much as posable so the temp in there is 60 F.


Sorry I looked at this so late. I think I could have saved you a lot of time and trouble. I refinished my kitchen cabinets a while back and used Minwax stains and polys. Had much same problrms as you. Then I found and used Zar stain (oil base) and water based poly(Aqua Zar), boy-howdy! Don't need conditioer, apply and spread as slow as I want( 1/2 pint goes up to 200 sq ft/ Minwax goes about 45 sq ft). Its completely controlable. Dries in 3 hrs,then top coat with Aqua Zar, dries in 2 hrs. I had over 20 colors to pick from or get a custom one from a tint base. In doing in entree door I used the Zar ext waterbased poly- great results. Zar is made by UGL. If you ever look for it in paint stores but don't find try UGL.COM , they have a locator.


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