# Any one use one of these ?



## BudK (Mar 6, 2007)

SawStop

Seems like it would pay for itself , at 3300 . the first time it did it's thing .


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## rob.hough (Jul 27, 2007)

BudK said:


> SawStop
> 
> Seems like it would pay for itself , at 3300 . the first time it did it's thing .


I'll just try to keep my fingers out of the saw. Very cool idea though. I just don't have $3300


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Yep it is a gamble to decide whether to invest $3300 "needlessly" or see how well you can continue to pay attention while you push your fingers within fractions of an inch of a meat grinder. 

Most of us will just be careful. A few here and there will lose the gamble. Would sure be a nice thing to have but I wonder if it could give a sense of security that could be the source of more "nicks" which is what you get theoretically.


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## BudK (Mar 6, 2007)

I wouldn't say needless , considering what health insurance costs and how fast stuff can and does go wrong . I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these ; as I've outgrown my old delta .

Plus , my eye sight aint what it usedta be .....among other things .
3300 divided by 20 yrs = 165.00 a year . Cheap . Plus unless the arthritus gets me , even if I spaz , I can still play the gitbox.
Priceless .


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## BULLHART (Oct 30, 2006)

Well, I lost that gamble last month due to my own complacency. 

I think if I were already shopping for a saw, it would be an excellent option. If your buying a cabinet saw, its not a bad price. I spent over 2 grand on my current table saw, so the difference would be worth it. However I'm not running out to get one. I don't see why they couldn't make a contractor saw as well. Not the entire trade needs a cabinet saw. If I decide to get another table saw, I will consider it. But for now, I am SUFFICIENTLY scared to not get complacent again for quite a while...lol


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

That's why I italisized "needless" Bud. Some people would consider it as such while others would consider it an investment with a "priceless" potential payback.

If I was gonna replace my saw I would seriously consider getting it as well.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Like all safety devices, never needed until after the accident.
Rear sensors for the car were thought to be unneccesary, a friend of ours reversed over her own child some years ago. Mine have already stopped me hitting a post.
johnep


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## niki (Jul 16, 2007)

Ok Guys, just for the good discussion, I'll play the "Safety Police" role...

The safety regulation in EU states;
* The blade guard must be installed for all operations...
* The operator hand shall never be closer than 6" (150 mm) around the blade...

Just by following this two rules, you don't have any chance to contact the blade but...
If one is wanting to gamble...some times you lose...

Every time I read about an accident on the table saw, I'm asking myself "What, in the name of the seven heels, his hands/fingers where doing around or so close to the blade...not only but, the naked blade.

I have many jigs and fixers to use on the table saw. With most of them, I use the blade guard. The only two that I don't are, the 45° cutting sled and the tenoning sled but in those cases, my hand are far more than 6" from the blade.

I would like to hear from the guys that bought or intend to buy the Sawstop why they want to buy it...I mean...reasons like "I like to work without the guard and my hands are 1/8" from the spinning blade" or alike...in other words, give me some cases that the Sawstop will save your hands/fingers.

Regards
niki


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

niki,

Thanks for the info. I agree safety regulations are essential but they cannot really be enforced. Regulating safety is about the same as regulating morality. 

Not to say that they don't help. I understand that commercial businesses in EU cannot use dado stacks and so I suppose that limits the number of accidents caused by those. But I would hate to live without my dado even though a router is an acceptable substitute and some would argue even better.

Anyhow, the Sawstop is a great invention IMHO any way you look at it. One day that patent will run it's course and aftermarket retro systems will be available as add-ons. Maybe someone will sidestep the patent by making an "improvement" and they will be available even before.


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## rob.hough (Jul 27, 2007)

If I were in the market for a cabinet saw.... This would totally be on my list. I saw one at the woodcraft shop down the road and it's like the Darth Vader of saws.

That said - I'm not in the market for a cabinet saw. I'm still trying to figure out if spending $500 on an upgrade to what I already have is something I can justify. I'm still very green to the world of wood working. I might lose interest in a week and go back to spending my money at the bar.


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## BudK (Mar 6, 2007)

niki said:


> Ok Guys, just for the good discussion, I'll play the "Safety Police" role.
> 
> I would like to hear from the guys that bought or intend to buy the Sawstop why they want to buy it...I mean...reasons like "I like to work without the guard and my hands are 1/8" from the spinning blade" or alike...in other words, give me some cases that the Sawstop will save your hands/fingers.
> 
> ...


 The first thing I'll do with a new table saw is to remove the blade guard . Smart ? no . 
The type of work I do is such that I do not often make many repetitive cuts , and have to change the settings and setup the saw for different operations that negate the use of the guard .

That being said , I have various jigs and featherboards , push sticks , holdowns and whatnot to control the workpiece and keep my hands away from the blade . Even so I'll get the occaisional kickback or saw bind that gets the heart pumping and wood flying . Ive been lucky .

I'm going to be spending a lot more time in front of a tablesaw in the near future and want any feature available that will increase personal safety & production with the techniques I have developed within the last 26 years . 'Cause sh*t happens , man . and I don't want it to happen to me .


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## niki (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi TexasTimber

The safety regulation cannot be enforced on amateurs but, for all registered business and schools they are very much enforced and they even have inspections from time to time to see that "everything is ok".

Of course you cannot enforce them on amateurs but you can force the manufacturers to build the machines according to some safety rules (riving knife, quick attach/detach blade guard, blade must stop within 10 seconds etc.) that improves the safety even for amateurs.

I think that any one that works with machine must realize with what he is dealing, the blade is a very strong "beast", it cuts everything including hands...I think that one must have some more "respect" to something stronger.

We must educate the young generation "safety" and, in my opinion, it does not include buying a Sawstop (that I want to see the first that will show us how he pushed his finger into the blade and came out with a small scratch), because there are other machines that can remove you hand before you know it.

Maybe, one thing is good about the sawstop. People know that if it is activated, they shall have to pay around $200 to change the mechanism and the blade so, they keep their fingers away... 

When I see on TV and Internet shows how those "TV stars" are working...sorry but it has exactly the opposite effect of "safety"....what the amateur thinks is... "If xxxx is doing it like that, it must be safe"...

Dado stack is permitted to use as long as "the guard must be installed"...the ones that use them are using overhead guard that is acceptable.
It was descovered, that many accidents occured not during the cutting, but after the cut finished....the hand came in contact with the naked blade.

And, I'm asking again, what are ones working methods or procedures that because of them he wants to buy Sawstop...

Safe work
niki


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## BudK (Mar 6, 2007)

Niki ,

In my case , it's not any particular procedure , I'm in the market for a powerful and accurate cabinet saw . The fact that this safety feature is available is reason enough IMO . 

No one I've met , or heard of that has felt the kiss of a table saw blade would in hindsight say :"An extra , say , 1500$ to have prevented the loss of my (fill in the blank ) is too expensive ."

I'm looking forward to NOT triggering the mechanism should I go this route .
:thumbsup: ,Bud


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## niki (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi Bud

From what I read in the fora from people that have the Sawstop, I got the impression that it is very good, strong (5 US HP) and high quality product and I'm sure that you will enjoy it as a table saw.

If it will make you to feel more relaxed when you are working on it, because at the back of your mind you know that you have additional protection, it dose worth the money...

But what about all those thousands of amateurs that cannot buy it.....that's the reason that I'm saying, we have to teach the young generation how to work safe on the table saw....because, if "safety" means Sawstop, only a few hundreds or thousands guy's will work safely...

With the correct procedure and jig or fixture, you can work safely on any table saw and even cut 9/16" squares with your hands far away from the blade (I did it just a few days ago)...no, not with the Grrriper, I would never pass my hand over a naked blade....with, or without the Grriper...

I wish that you will never trigger the mechanism and enjoy your new Sawstop...I feel that you are going to buy it so I wish you Mazle-Tov... :thumbsup: 

Regards
niki


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## Dbriski (Aug 17, 2007)

BULLHART said:


> I don't see why they couldn't make a contractor saw as well.


SawStop is comming out with a contractors saw very soon. They had it at the AWFS show in Las Vegas.


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## BULLHART (Oct 30, 2006)

Interesting.


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## nywoodwizard (Oct 31, 2006)

BudK said:


> SawStop
> 
> Seems like it would pay for itself , at 3300 . the first time it did it's thing .


An excellent choice for a school shop saw


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

*sawstop*

For someone teaching woodwork, sawstop could prevent millions of compensation and probably pay for itself in reduction of insurance premiums.
johnep


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## gibbymacmaster (Aug 24, 2007)

*seen 'em*

seen 'em in operation....amazing technology. a carpenter friend once quoted me that working with the tools we woodworkers use was similar to being around live rattlesnakes all day. i think it's a sound investment, but treat it as if it were just a normal ol' table saw--with respect and fear.


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## End Grain (Nov 16, 2007)

Reliance on automatic safety stops and devices tends to take the thought process out of the equation. People by nature go onto auto pilot of sorts. IMO, there's no substitute for conscious thought, good ingrained safety practices and always looking where one's hands are AND where they'll end up BEFORE the saw is turned on and BEFORE the cut is made. Just my 2 cents.


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## Corndog (Apr 26, 2007)

Seems like "table saw fer dummies" to me.:laughing:


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## jpw23 (Jan 6, 2007)

I guess a few saved fingers would be good.


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## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

As an engineer and a woodworker I have found this device very interesting from the first time I read about it in one of my wood magazines. Ever since then I have been following its development through articles I have read in my engineering technical journals.

At first, the inventor tried to sell this as an aftermarket item or an option that tablesaw manufacturers could offer on their product. He was quickly and repetedly shut down by all the big manufacturers. He then designed his own table saw and gained the attention of government agencies and is currently trying to pass legislation to force manufactures to put such safety devices on their saws. Needless to say, he is not well liked by the saw manufacturers.

Although this is a great product, I have a real problem with forcing legislation on something like this. This is the kind of mentality that justifies $10M law suits over spilled hot coffee. It's just not right. The only person who is at risk is the operator and it should be their choice to use the safety or not. I have been using tablesaws for 28 years and I still have all my digits. I'm not saying accidents can't happen, nor am I judging anyone who has lost a finger or worse to a table saw accident. I just don't think that it is right to put the responsibility on the manufacturers.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

I will add a few thoughts to this: I, like many other, I have no guards in place on my table saw. They interfere with the various jigs I use. There is one lesson I remember well and practice when using the saw. I never run the blade any higher then necessary to clear the stock cleanly, and always have a push board handy. If you think about the cut before you run it, and look for potential pinch points, chances of an accident decrease tremendously. 

I would hate to see mandatory installation on saws, but then again, I don't like government intervention anyway. Find a trade school that teaches manual machining anymore? machine tools are dangerous like nothing else, and our vo tech caved in and eliminated the program for fear of a lawsuit.


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## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

joasis,

I agree with your methods. I don't use a guard either but I still consider myself to be very safe when it come to using power tools. To be honest, the table saw guard scares the heck out of me. If I can't see the blade, I don't want to be using the saw. Too many times I have had the guard pinch or get caught on the side and that just makes things more dangerous. I believe that keeping the blade low and maintaining a 6" distance from the blade at all times is a safe bet.


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## mdlbldrmatt135 (Dec 6, 2006)

I'm the same as Ken, I have been "bit" once............ and did a good bit of damage.... But I still don;t use guards..... I can't stand not bieng able to see the blade...... I just have alot more Push sticks......


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## JON BELL (Nov 2, 2007)

Wow,think of all the wood I could buy with $3300!


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## 16ga (May 20, 2007)

Never used one of these and probably never will but I just wonder how accurate the thing is. Sure would hate to have to pay that kinda money because the thing “thought” I was going to cut a finger off.

Personally like other here I keep the guards off my table saw anyway. I find mines more trouble then its worth and decided I felt safer without within the first week.


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## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

OK, here is a link to a great article on the Saw Stop device. There is even a video of it in action. The video says it all.

http://www.designnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6360672

Here are some good reader responces to the above article.

http://www.designnews.com/article/CA6376062.html


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## Steve G. (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't use a guard on my table saw either, I make to many dados with it for it to be practical.


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## aclose (Nov 11, 2007)

i've used the SawStop in a table saw class at our local Woodcraft store. the saw is extremely impressive. not that i have a ton of experience with table saws; i was taking a class after all.  but it seems to be very accurate, very solid, no vibration. the riving knife is very nice as i don't like the splitters that most saws have. blade change was easy. the fence was also very sturdy and extremely smooth. 
again, i have limited experience with table saws, but this thing is very impressive. and the added bonus of the blade brake is pretty cool.


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## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

I have alot of respect for spinning carbide. The saw stop was designed for the schools and pushed by the insurance co.s It`s all about money! If they design a product to make an intricate maneuver intrepid... it will become just that!!! There, I said it... Use your head!! that`s what it`s there for!!! Rick P.S. Don`t cut yourself... you need your fingers.


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