# Dust Collector set up



## Locodcdude (Oct 24, 2010)

Hey everyone, I finished my dust collection set up in my workshop last night, and wanted to share it with yah :]

My shop is a 18'x11' shed, so I purchased a smaller, 1 HP machine, and hung it on the wall. I then ran 4 inch pipe right off the machine across the back wall to a drop, then ran to the wall above the bench, and did 2 drops in 3 inch for tools. I have 3 inch flex hose to the machines, then a 4 inch 50' flexible hose going from the 4 inch drop i stated first, for things like the table saw, the planer, miter saw, and general clean up.

In a magazine called "Small Shop" I noticed someone designed a project, a dust filter. It was made of 3/4 plywood, and hung from the ceiling. I built this, but different dimensions, and hung it from the ceiling, against the back wall. It holds 2 pleated filters, and holds a 1 3/4 HP air handler from an air conditioning unit in a house.

I get ample air circulation and filtration, as well as a near dust free environment!

Thank's for reading everyone!


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Sounds good.

Wondering if any attempt has been made in isolating noise?Rubber grommets,hangin ceiling unit with dogchain vs solid bolt-up.....tool noise being transmitted or amplified through dust hose and subsequent "fixes"?BW


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

BWSmith said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> Wondering if any attempt has been made in isolating noise?Rubber grommets,hangin ceiling unit with dogchain vs solid bolt-up.....tool noise being transmitted or amplified through dust hose and subsequent "fixes"?BW


I have wondered about this as well. I will be getting one of those HF DCs in the next month or so and have thought about installation. I have considered building an insullated pop-out on my shop that would house the compressor and DC. I need to figure out how to do that to minimize noise for the neighbors and allow adequate airflow for the tools and cooling. I really don't like those tools with the noise in the shop.

My thought on the pop out would be to put a series of baffles on both sides of the tool housing to allow for airflow and sound dampening but I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Scotty,I'm very interested in it.Theres been some good talk 'round here on those small add-on's,usually associated with space...then to a slightly lessor degree dust,with sound bringin up the rear.Its kinda two different subjects(add-on and sound levels)....but can be interelated.Wish I knew more about the sound thing?BW


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*This may be a first*

Usually it's the DC or the Air Comp. in the bump out, not both. Interesting set of parameters, noise from direct transmission and vibration, heat/cooling from the AC motor and mix in the unfiltered airborne dust spilling out from the DC into the Air Comp air intake, and the return air issue from the conditioned air in the shop. Lots of issues to solve but a pretty good challenge if a guy is up to it and does the proper experimenting/research. My first thought is to isolate the 2 units from each other. Great project! :thumbsup: bill


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

My thought is to include a separator inside the shop. That way I can help limit what goes to the DC. I am also considering (eventually) the canister upgrade for the HF DC. I've also thought about a Temp controlled fan to help control that space for temp and dust accumulation. Is it the dust interfering with the compressor?

As I am planning on baffling the out structure, I could put a separate compartment for the compressor ahead of the DC so the air flow would allow clean air for the compressor. Would this work or am I missing the issue here?

For what it is worth, my plan is to use plastic pipe for the DC. I realize there will be noise transmitted through the pipe but it will be greatly reduced by having the primary motor noise in another area. I thought about putting the DC in the attic but I figure that would be too much of a PITA for maintenance.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

ScottyB said:


> I have wondered about this as well. I will be getting one of those HF DCs in the next month or so and have thought about installation. I have considered building an insullated pop-out on my shop that would house the compressor and DC. I need to figure out how to do that to minimize noise for the neighbors and allow adequate airflow for the tools and cooling. I really don't like those tools with the noise in the shop.
> 
> My thought on the pop out would be to put a series of baffles on both sides of the tool housing to allow for airflow and sound dampening but I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not.


Isolate it via baffles like a speaker box. I don't have a scanner here, but I will try to get a pic drawn up and posted tomorrow sometime... But picture a door with a gap on the top, a space, then a door with a gap on the bottom. The entire compartment covered in a soft, sound absorbing material such as carpet, that way high frequency sound waves, the ones most likely to reach and annoy neighbors, will have to go up, THEN down, and high frequencies are VERY directional in nature... I see this done for compressors all the time, not so much for dust collectors, but I would imagine that it would work the same...


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## Locodcdude (Oct 24, 2010)

Nice ideas guys. In my shop that I will "eventually" build, I plan on having the dust collector in a back closet with the air compressor and piping everything in the ceiling. Then just using drops throughout the shop where needed, ex. Tablesaw, router table, planer, shaper, ect. This way everything is tucked away, and not protruding beyond the walls and such. That and the compressor would be out of the way in this insulated room, you'd barely hear it! Plus... Everything is in the back room, and out of the shop area, for more floor space, and more room for some more tools.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Regarding compressors....few things.

Dust and keeping unit supplied w/clean air.

Moisture....we're trying to control how much the AC puts out so must be concerned with what goes in.

Shop air lines are not typ plumbing lines in that for a drop you pull off the top of perimeter line,then elbow,elbow...then however long "drop".IOWs,it ain't a tee looking down...it looks up.

Theres two schools of thought on which way perimeter line should "fall".Some say back to compressor and an almost equal number have it falling twds the furthest point on mainline and there.gets its own drip leg/valve.I tend to be in the first school for some rather complicated reasons.But it goes to shopw that theres more than one way to accomplish the same task....

We have an old 2 stage 60 g that has been flawless(knock on wood)for 30 years.It does live a rather charmed life,meaning I limit the real air robbers and don't use a sandblaster.Its loud,very loud.The screw type compressors are not as loud....but cost twice as much(whole nuther discussion).Alot of the noise(on ours)comes out through the intake.So you might look at ways to move intake.........and this "may" help when pairing it with another pc(DC)in an inclosure.IOWs the intake can be plumbed more twds a cooler,cleaner part of the shop.The heat issue is real and simply put,the cooler you can keep the compressor head and ESPECIALLY the line from it to tank the better you are.This is getting into areas of moisture control....BEFORE it becomes too great.IOWs any thing you can do BEFORE the AC to control moisture the less the demand on any systems trying to control it after the fact......basic hillbilly or common sense engineering.......sucking air from outside @90% humidity and then trying to remove that moisture is simply asking too much.

Shoplines and their material has been discussed at length.Theres several ways to accomplish the task.Further,what works for one shop may be impractical for another.Black steel pipe has been the derigueur for most pro-shops.With minimal tools you can get a pert-near bulletproof system.Recent imported "fittings"...in a word,suck.So if any are thinking of black pipe(galvinized is sorta bad ju-ju cause of the chance of specks flaking and gloggin stuff up)start scroungin old USA fittings in appropriate sizes.The main reasons for black/threaded is its so easy to cahnge or add to system.....and in fact dis-assemble and take with you if you move.

When choosing systems,be it airlines or DC lines....try to be as braoadbased as possible.Don't be too quick to discount a particular material because of expense or some percieved difficulty in its use or tools required.........that same system "may" have bennies 10 years from now that others severly lack.Insurance is great and all,but pce of mind is where its at.Also be broad based enough to be able to distinguish between different pro setups...as they aren't all built to same requirements.What goes on in an OSHA aproved shop may be different from an equally professional,but built as a "total loss" facility.And this latter,while may seem dumb to some....deffinately has its following.

Good discussion.BW


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

Well, I just spent 2 hours using Sketchup to draw up my out building. Of course, I forgot the first rule of computer design: Save early, save often. I was putting the last of the text in when the damn thing crashed. I think I had this problem before I stopped using it last time. Maybe I'll try again this evening.


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

Well, I finally got a rough sketch of what I am planning.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Looks like thats a sketch of a typ wall section?IOWs the two openings for DC and AC are the holes that you'll plug onto from outside.

I developed years ago a brainlessly simple way of attatching,in this case the add-on,to a hole in wall.It(my epiphany)started out as a way to "box-out" exst. kitchen windows...thereby creating little inside planters or window bxs for lack of a better term.Its brilliance was in the fact that you could use the very same window.And how bloomin quick/painless the whole thing is.Made good money over the years on that one.And it scales up real well from a structural eng. standpoint(and yes,have a bunch of M.E. friends)to sizes aprox. dble French doors.

Anyhoo......when we first started talkin up the bennies of these bump-out's on this site,I was like shoot yeah it'll work.Its no big secret that my computer skills are barley a notch above illiterate,and describing the process would only be understood by a few...so will save the explanation.Its very basic stressed panel construction however.

But heck yeah Scotty,keep at it.And move your design thinking twds pre-fabbing.IOW's on your above hole in the wall,have the wing walls and outside or end wall,built in shop ready for install.Think of the guy who needs the bump-out and has a situation(SWMBO,nosey neighbors,whatever)where this project has to be done,RIGHT the freak NOW.Having all those outside walls pre-fabbed,complete with exterior treatment,including paint.....ahhhhh,sort of brings out the majician in you.Once there was nothing,presto chango,now theres a 30 sq ft add-on.Even the roof can be thought of as "one unit".BW


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Looking at the diagram..*

My first thought is "overkill". Too much wasted space, too big of a structure. If you search sound absorbing materials, design, etc you'll find a lot of info.
There are insulating blankets to absorb reflected sounds:
http://www.soundseal.com/barricade/barricade-sound-absorbers.shtml
Foam panels work well, 2 walls separated by a 1" air space is often used, in combination with 5/8" drywall, even several layers, for stiffness. Home theater system design use this approach. http://mixonline.com/online_extras/sound_absorbing_materials/
I envisioned 2 "outhouse" sheds, slanted roof type structures, separated with no connection port, a few inches apart, with a single roof to cover both, but with isolation mounts. All air supply comes from within the building as conditioned air as mentioned by BWsmith for moisture control in the AC intake. 
Good project, but I'd do more research! :thumbsup: bill
BTW the access panel can be a door, insulated/isolated of course, on either the outside or inside...inside if weather is a factor during servicing.

Check this out at 1:18 min. separated dust collector room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKSqjPuR1k4


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the current design is overkill. I was speaking to a friend of mine who does audio engineering and studio design. He was telling me that the only thing that stops sound is mass, which rules out my thought of using styrofoam sheets to insulate with. Like most projects I do for myself, I am trying to do this one on the cheap.

I live in the northwest where it is pretty wet. Though this structure would be attached to the shop, I don't plan on sharing air between the shop and new structure. I don't heat the shop year round as I don't get to work in there more than a few days a month. Drywall doubled up in there would work well for killing sound but the damp air has me worried. I thought about MDF but I would think that runs the same risks of moisture damage. My hope is that the baffles will help block sound while still allowing airflow. The front would have doors so the DC and compressor can be easily accessed. I plan on having a chip separator inside the shop so that should reduce what goes to the DC.

The sketch I provided was a rough idea. I am thinking that the baffles can be much smaller. If I were to spend money on upgrading my compressor to an oil-filled one I could get away with less effort on the structure. From what I am hearing (no pun intended) the DC and the oil-filled compressor are considerably quieter than I am thinking. I was thinking the DC would be like the shopvac only louder. I don't have much experience with oiled compressors. 

I know air gaps are good for trapping noise and smaller are probably better than larger as I am thinking I need to trap more mid to high frequency waves. This is still in the rough design stage. I know I am short on room for a DC inside my shop and I hate listening to the compressor I have now. I am just trying to plan for a longer term solution.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*How noisy is a DC?*

You tube videos, there are many, will show you:










And the Famous Harbor Freight 2 HP unit!!!





:thumbsup: bill


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## Locodcdude (Oct 24, 2010)

I have the 1 HP 30 gallon dust collector unit from Harbo Freight and I LOVE it. Don't let the price fool you into thinking it's a cheap tool. Very well made and durable parts on this beast.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

ScottyB said:


> Well, I finally got a rough sketch of what I am planning.


Yeah, overkill, in both construction and space. You can knock one of the vertical channels out, of each side no problem. Just remember to line the thing with sound absorbing material (Speaker box carpet is a good one!)


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