# 60 degree angle -- help



## hhn (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi all, beginner woodworker here. I am helping my son with a fairly simple coffee table, but it calls for a 60 degree cut in a 2x2 for a cross piece. I tried this with a power miter saw, clamping the board 90 degrees to the fence and cutting -- BAD idea -- the saw kickbacked major, damaged the table insert (where the blade goes thru) and scared the crap out of me. Then tried a 90 degree jig, but still had trouble. I tried cutting with a circ saw, but unable to get angle right. Finally resorted to hand saw, and angle is OK, but the edge is not perpendicular. 

Any suggestions? I was considering using a hand miter saw, and turning the piece 90 degrees to the fence like I tried with the power saw -- it may not work, but at least it wont kill me!

thanks,

hhn


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

What other tools do you have? I suspect the problem with the miter saw may have been the blade; one with a high hook angle would do that, what about clamping the work piece down and trying it. Anyway, I think the miter box trick will work as well. If you have a table saw and tenon jig, you can stand the piece on end with the jig and cut it (if it's not too long). It could also be done on a band saw. Lastly, maybe it could also be cut with an everyday hand saw.


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## hhn (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for your input. I have a jigsaw, and tried that too, but hard to get a straight line at a shallow angle like this. No table saw. I tried a regular hand saw, and again, the shallow angle made it difficult (again, I'm not the best woodworker). Actually the best result was using a hacksaw of all things. It got the angle fine, but the end of the piece was not very perpendicular. I had been considering buying a bandsaw anyway -- would that work well for something like this? 

I know I should consider a table saw, but I work in the medical field, and have seen too many bad table saw injuries -- I know if you are careful, that shouldn't be a concern, but the miter saw incident kind of freaked me out. 

thanks for your help

hhn


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

You can use the mitersaw but you need to add an auxiliary table and continuous fence. This will prevent the work from getting sucked into the gap between the factory fences and allow you to attach a block to position the work and keep it secure.

The saw at 0 degrees is actually 90 degrees. 60 is the compliment of 30. Leave the saw at 90 and set the reference block at 30. Just cut a 30 on the end of the block and keep that angle against the fence.

Auxiliary tables and fences are great for many cuts. Set the depth of the cut so you don't cut through. I'll try loading a pic. I'll just place some boards and hold them by hand to show what I mean on my saw. Your work piece can be held or clamped. Set to the left of the blade.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

The compliment of a 60 deg. angle is a 30 deg. angle. Set the blade to cut a 30 deg. waste piece.

George


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## hhn (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for the explanation and the photo! That looks much more stable than what I was trying to do. One more question -- my miter saw doesn't have a depth adjustment (that I know of). So would this still work but the fence and table would be sacrificed?

Thanks again

Hhn


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I'm not clear here*



hhn said:


> Hi all, beginner woodworker here. I am helping my son with a fairly simple coffee table, *but it calls for a 60 degree* *cut* in a 2x2 for a cross piece. thanks, hhn


Is it a 60 degree angle on the piece OR is it two 30 degree piece mated together.? 

A 60 degree cut would require you set the miter guage to 30 degrees,.... simple. :yes:
A 30 degree cut would require a jig. For example here's a 22 1/2 degree cut using a 45 degree "jig" spacer off the fence. Acute angles, less than 45 degrees require a spacer because the saw won't swing far enough around. 
 

The degree setting on the miter guage and the miter saw are "away from 90 degrees" so, to get a 60, set it to 30. To get a 50, set it to 40 etc.
 

The long version and discussion/explanation is here:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/angles-setting-miter-saw-9644/


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

This is my depth adjustment. Your's may be similar. If you don't have one, just don't cut all the way through the jig. My first picture is only of the jig, doesn't show the work piece. Some of the other responders pictures are incorrect for a 60 degree angle, they are showing 30.

Can't upload a photo, will try later.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Huh?*

My photo, the only one shows a 60 degree angle on the workpiece, not on the miter guage. Which are you referring to? If that's not a 60 degree angle on the workpiece, I'll buy you a Diablo saw blade and ship it to you.

The speed square shows 60 also, same piece of wood:

 




Hammer1 said:


> Some of the other responders pictures are incorrect for a 60 degree angle, they are showing 30.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Acute angles, less than 45 degrees require a spacer because the saw won't swing far enough around.


That's funny, I must have a special saw. For acute angles less than 45° my saw swings past 22½°, past 30° and then goes to about 47°. 





















.


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

Jig to hold at 45-degrees, then cut at 15-degrees.


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

[quote="]I know I should consider a table saw, but I work in the medical field, and have seen too many bad table saw injuries -- I know if you are careful, that shouldn't be a concern, but the miter saw incident kind of freaked me out.
[/quote]

Any power tool used wrong is dangerous and can hurt you. You already had a serious warning with the kickback. 

I've seen serious injuries caused by just about every tool in the shop: sanders; grinders; routers; nailers (fatal); miter saws; jointer; planer; and, the table saw. 

All you have to do is misuse them, or fail to read and follow the safety warnings.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> Any power tool used wrong is dangerous and can hurt you.  You already had a serious warning with the kickback.
> 
> I've seen serious injuries caused by just about every tool in the shop: sanders; grinders; routers; nailers (fatal); miter saws; jointer; planer; and, the table saw.
> 
> All you have to do is misuse them, or fail to read and follow the safety warnings.


+1 I might add, you can also get run over crossing the street. :smile:


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Warning, Warning, Warning.

Being born is dangerous. It could cost you your life!!! You start dying immediately.

It is best to stay safely in the womb.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Yup!*

I've tried crawling back in there several times, no luck, the entrance is smaller or something. :blink:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I go head first. :yes:








 







.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> My photo, the only one shows a 60 degree angle on the workpiece, not on the miter guage. Which are you referring to? If that's not a 60 degree angle on the workpiece, I'll buy you a Diablo saw blade and ship it to you.
> 
> The speed square shows 60 also, same piece of wood:


A typical miter saw will swing on an angle to at least 45 degrees in either direction. Saws vary, my Bosch swings 60 to the right and 50 to the left, but not all brands or models swing quite that far. The OP apparently has a miter saw that doesn't swing all the way to 60 so he has to deal with the limits of his saw. There are several ways to safely and accurately make such cuts on the miter saw. I suggested one. The OP also listed his tools which didn't include a table saw. 

I know what you are thinking but a 60 degree cut is a steep angle, more than 45. To draw a 60 with a speed square, you register the T shaped end to the edge of the board, just like you were going to mark a 90 degree cut. You keep the pivot point against the board edge but swing the square until you line up with 60. The cuts you showed on your miter saw and miter bar are well within the swing of miter saws and less than a 45, they are 30's. A pic with the square.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I think I can load a pic of my depth adjustment. It's a bolt that contacts a tab, nut under to lock it in place. It's behind the saw. I'll loosen the lock nut and turn the bolt so the saw blade just cuts into the wood about 1/8".
Guess the pic is too big.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I don't want to take this much further*

But the angle you show is 30 degrees not 60. I've worked with draftsman's traingles for 50 years and I know what a 30/60 triangle is. I used them in high school drafting, in Architecture in college, at General Motors Design, and at home and I have 3 or 4 sets, several T squares a drafting machine, and 2 drafting tables. I know of what I speak. 










I stand by my assertion that you will get a 60 degree angle on the workpiece IF you set either the miter guage on the table saw OR the angle arm on the miter saw at 30 degrees, because the angle is "away from 90 degrees" or the compliment of the setting. Like this:


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

Just a follow-up on woodnthings' post... _*THE END*_


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

The OP wouldn't have a problem if he could make the cut he wants within the swing of the miter saw. You are talking about a 60 or 30 within 180 degrees, 0 and 180 opposite each other on the base line and from that perspective, you are correct. With a saw, we are talking 60 in relation to 0. That 0 would be 90 or perpendicular to the base line on a protractor but it's 0 on the saw. 

Looking at your triangle. His cut wants to be along the hypotenuse. The end of his board would look just like the triangle if the edge was held in line with the base, a long point.

You don't have to substantiate your knowledge for me, Woodnthings. I think you are awesome, no resume needed. But, we are talking about a different situation, essentially the reverse, when using the miter saw for an angle it can't swing to.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*we agree then, finally*

I posted this earlier:

A 60 degree cut would require you set the miter guage to 30 degrees,.... simple. :yes: 


A 30 degree cut would require a jig. For example here's a 22 1/2 degree cut using a 45 degree "jig" spacer off the fence.* Acute angles, less than 45 degrees require a spacer because the saw won't swing far enough around. *


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Hammer1 said:


> But, we are talking about a different situation, essentially the reverse, when using the miter saw for an angle it can't swing to.


+1. :yes:








 







.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Hammer1 said:


> T
> You don't have to substantiate your knowledge for me, Woodnthings. I think you are awesome, no resume needed. But, we are talking about a different situation, essentially the reverse, *when using the miter saw for an angle it can't swing to*.


This is why I originally asked in Post no. 7, if the angle was indeed 60 degrees or two pieces at 30 degree angles. As I said a 60 degree angle is simple set the saw's arm to 30 degrees. 

A 30 degree angle would require the jig off the fence to get the acute angle. I still think we are talking in circles around the same situation and we actually agree that the jig you showed is necessary. :yes:


this is what I think is correct, Post 11:
jigs-n-fixtures 
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 501 








Jig to hold at 45-degrees, then cut at 15-degrees.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

I think the confusion solution just came to me. What makes the calculations different is the relationship of the saw to the fence, miter head. In plain geometry you have the horizontal base line x-y, 0 -180 and the vertical line a-b, 90-270. In cutting on a miter saw or a miter head on a table saw, the x-y line is not the fence or the miter head, it's the saw blade. You can think of it as the a-b line becoming 0-180. The edge of the board isn't the base line, 90 degrees to the edge of the board is the base line. That's why the 60 degree cut ends up being a long point at a 30 degree slope.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Zactly!*

It's to the blade, which is 90 degrees to the fence starting out, BUT marked as Zero on the miter guage as is the angle setting on the miter saw scale. :yes:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Think of it as cutting a board so many degrees off square, saw set at 0 degrees cuts board square, everything else indicates how much it is off square to one side or the other. A 30 degree point on a board is 60 degrees off square.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

After reading this thread. I'm going to just leave all my cuts at 90 degrees. Or is that zero? 

But if I change my mind can I call on you Bill for the correct angle? 

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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## Improv (Aug 13, 2008)

Al B Thayer said:


> After reading this thread. I'm going to just leave all my cuts at 90 degrees. Or is that zero?


It's 'normal'.


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## hhn (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks to all in your attempts to help this newbie. I'm afraid I added to the confusion by not explaining clearly what I was trying to get (mainly because this miter saw angle thing is confusing!). Indeed, the piece I'm trying to cut is 60 degrees OFF SQUARE (which I assume is the same thing as off 90 degrees). So the piece itself has a very acute angle, too acute for me to cut with the miter saw with the work piece against the fence. All this discussion has definitely been helpful, though, and I understand it much better, so thanks again!

Hhn


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Soo, for the sake of discussion... if he needed to cut the exact oposite of that angle, what would be the procedure for that? :smile:


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