# Herringbone Style Joint - Opinions Needed!



## 4WDlifeform (May 10, 2018)

Looking for any tips on how this joint can be fastened? I need it to be strong to hold wine bottles, but it is also a visual feature of the cabinet, so I'd like to hide the fasteners as best as possible. I am very inclined to just run a pocket screw across the bottom of the joint, through the middle spine and into the opposing panel. I'll also glue the joint once I am ready to run the screws in.

Any thoughts? 




























Thanks all in advance!!


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Why the concern with using fasteners? That is really not a load bearing joint. The wine bottles will put very little pressure on it. I would just glue and forget about it. If you just have to do something then route a rabbet where the shelves will intersect the upright. The tip of the shelves will rest of the rabbet.


George


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## 4WDlifeform (May 10, 2018)

Thanks for the suggestion. 

I would trust just glue, but I am uncertain of being able to get a good clamp on it. I supposed I could build a jig.. I built the panels from small walnut planks, and from drying they bowed a bit, so I really need to get a good clamp to just rely on glue. 

I can not do a rabbet, as I already cut the boards to fit flush with the full thickness of the center board, my bevel angles would be off.. :-/

Feeling maybe a well located biscuit..? But, still need to clamp. Guess I am building a jig!!


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

Use a 23 gauge pinner if you have one in place of clamps. They would be very hard to see.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If I were building the cabinet I would glue and nail the joints.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

For the two top angled shelves, I would cut a very shallow rabbett approx 3/16” deep on both sides of the top of the vertical support to seat the two top shelves at the center point. All joints fitted tightly with only a good wood glue.


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## 4WDlifeform (May 10, 2018)

Been browsing a bit this morning. Found some awesome references, which is giving me ideas on how to clamp this. Feeling pretty good using something like this principle:

http://www.blokkz.com/2-universal-clamping-blocks-ucb-with-2-neoprene-pads-buy-2-pairs-and-save-10/

Though, I'll probably make my own jig blocks that can tighten all 3 pieces together. Hopefully I'll be able to get a good tight clamp that will pull the warped center board straight. 

I'll probably get to this tonight, so I'll post up with how it turns out. Thanks all!


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

You could use a Feather joint. Similar to this photo, with your support added to the center.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I wouldn't use fasteners*

I would make a thicker center section with a rabbet at the top to catch the angles shelf bu about 1/16". You could do the same at the bottom so it will match. This would only be necessary IF the shelves fall short of reaching the full depth in the rabbet. I can't get my brain around whether this would be necessary by looking at the photos ..... :| You could just use the center as is and make the rabbet to see if that would work. If not make a new center support.

The lesson I see here is to make your joinery "structural" and by that I mean interlocking or self supporting. Don't use fasteners unless as a last resort. They should not be part of a fine woodworking project unless to hold a back on while the glue sets for instance. Change your design if necessary to make the project the best you can.....


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## 4WDlifeform (May 10, 2018)

I don't think I could do the feather joint, as room for finishing would be tight. In fact, hoping I can get away with sanding all the panels, mask the joining edges, apply the clear, remove masking, and glue in. The interior walls of the cabinet are going to be painted and finished differently. 

Next time, I will think a joint like this more thoroughly before starting building. I agree, would prefer to make the structure self load bearing.. was just too excited to get started on this one! So, I already made the panels, I used walnut and don't have enough scrap to make a new center panel. Walnut is hard for me to get and it is $$$$ so I am going to at least try gluing the joints with clamps/jigs. If it fails, I guess I'll make a new panel. I think I'll be OK though.


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## jeremymcon (Oct 16, 2014)

I wonder if you could miter the top of the upright? Match the angle that the angled pieces are sloping, leaving the ends of the uprights at 90 degrees. Then you'd have a miter, but the downward force from the wine bottles will actually push the joint together until the boards themselves start to flex too much. It'd be a little like the way kumiko panels are put together.


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## 4WDlifeform (May 10, 2018)

I thought I was going to get around to this sooner... Anyway, here is the result:




























I am marginally happy with it.. I did not line up the panel joints, I did not sand the end grain of the vertical piece before clamping, and my middle panel is still slightly warped :wallbash: I was hoping the warped panel would pull with the clamping. I probably should have placed a caul to back the angled pieces, and maybe would have sealed the joint better. The other errors I did not realize until I un-clamped this morning.

It seems strong, been working and sanding it a bit today, and it is holding up well. Hind sight I wish I would have hid the end grain on the top and had the two beveled pieces come all the way together. Once the wine bottles are on there, its going to be hidden anyway! :whistling2:

I appreciate all the comments. Cheers!


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