# How to safely rip 5'x5' ply?



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

How do you guys rip your large sheet goods such as 5x5 baltic birch or normal 4x8 ply? I have a table saw, but the thought of trying to rip a 5x5 sheet of ply scares the bejebbus out of me. :blink: I've experienced kickback before with a 2x4 sheet of 3/4" MDF. Not to be gross, but I peed a little blood for a day or two afterwards. I've no desire to repeat that. I'm thinking about getting a large edge guide like this http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2080241/28320/66inch-bora-clamp-edge-wide-track-tool-guide.aspx and ripping the larger sheets down to more managably-sized pieces.

What I do not have yet is an outfeed table for my table saw; I know I need to build one. But even if I had an outfeed table, I'd still be scared of ripping such a large piece. How do you guys handle this problem?


----------



## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

An outfeed table is a must! If your not proficient ripping full sheets than break them down with a circ saw first. :smile:


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Out of all the tools in my shop, the table saw is the one that truly scares me. I have a sled I use for most cuts and that helps with the smaller pieces. I'll be constructing an outfeed table before continuing on with my latest project for sure.


----------



## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Ripping large sheets requires the same principals as smaller pieces, keep tight to the fence and flat on the table. :smile:


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*what he said*

It's about control. Controlling the weight and controlling the pressure agaisnt the fence. An out feed table will carry the weight and depending on your dimension to the fence, the table saw will support it....depending....
A 5 footer isn't as cumbersome as a 8 footer. 
If you're not able to control it, the cut won't be accurate.
A circ saw and a straight edge with two clamps will work fine. I just ripped 2 4 X 8's in half doing that very thing and it was frweaking cold outside, about 3 degrees. :surrender:


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Many years ago, I ripped 4x8 sheets on an industrial TS with side and outfeed tables the size of Texas, AND I had two other people much more experienced than I directing me. I remember how nerve-racking it was. My hybrid TS is on wheels, as is most stuff in my shop. My outfeed table (when I build it) will be of the 3' in length variety so it can fold and move with the saw. With no side table I'd still be afraid of ripping large stuff. Probably, my inexperience is getting the better of me (I'm just a hobbyist) but I'd rather keep my fear of the machine and keep my body parts. Guess I'll be spending a c-note on that edge clamp, then.


----------



## jholly (Jan 5, 2013)

mikeintexas said:


> I'm thinking about getting a large edge guide like this http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2080241/28320/66inch-bora-clamp-edge-wide-track-tool-guide.aspx and ripping the larger sheets down to more managably-sized pieces.


Yes, good idea. I use a EZ track and find very good in breaking down the big sheets. I also have a plywood grid I set up on two saw horses to lay the sheet down on.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

I have sawhorses (plastic folding ones). What is a "plywood grid?" If it's portable/able to be disassembled, I'm interested. My shop is also our garage, unfortunately.


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

Count me among the "set up a big grid on sawhorses and use a circ saw" contingent. Since I don't have a table saw, I use the same technique for most of my smaller stuff too. It's proving successful enough I may pass on a TS altogether, since a router can handle most of the other chores I'd need at TS for, and takes up acres less room (and table saws are definitely my least-favorite shop tool).

Provide lots of support so that nothing tips when the cut is done, and it's like cutting butter. Sufficient clamps to keep things from shifting are also a requirement.


----------



## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

I always supply gloves and hearing protection for my "outfeed assistant."
They are armed with the 18" Lee Valley screwdriver as a riving knife.
Add cement blocks to TS for ballast.
I can't imagine ever trying to do a sheet without an assistant.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks, guys. The more replies I read, the more I'm inclined to throw the sheets on the sawhorses and go from there. I just need to buy that 60+ inch edge guide. A piece of angle iron should work as an edge guide too, right? It should be cheaper as well. Hmm. Yeah, but then I've got to deal with putting clamps at either end , shifting, etc. I'll just get the clamp.


----------



## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I routinely rip large sheets on my TS by myself and preferred with a helper. A bad helper is worse then going it alone in my opinion. The key either way is the biggest table area possible. I have 53 " rip capacity, riving knife, a 6 ft out feed table and a side table support if needed. Fear is not good when using power tools. Respect on the other and is good.


----------



## jholly (Jan 5, 2013)

mikeintexas said:


> I have sawhorses (plastic folding ones). What is a "plywood grid?" If it's portable/able to be disassembled, I'm interested. My shop is also our garage, unfortunately.


Here is one
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/blades-bits-and-supplies/cutting-platform/

another one
http://www.woodsmith.com/files/issues/185/knock-down-cutting-table.pdf

Google is your friend.


----------



## bradnailer (Nov 11, 2008)

I don't do it but a friend of mine told me he rips it with his circular saw using a 4' * 8' sheet of fiberglass insulation that goes on a house. He lays the plywood on the insulation, then sets the saw blade to just clear the plywood then rips it. The plywood lays firmly on the insulation that has been laid firmly on the floor.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks for the links, jholly. My TS does have a riving knife, which certainly helps when ripping larger pieces. What I'm missing in order to do the job safely on the TS are side/outfeed tables. I'm just too limited on space for both. I'll be constructing a flip-up outfeed table very soon, but still think I'll probably go the circular saw/sawhorse route. Thanks for all the replies/advice!


----------



## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

mikeintexas said:


> Thanks for the links, jholly. My TS does have a riving knife, which certainly helps when ripping larger pieces. What I'm missing in order to do the job safely on the TS are side/outfeed tables. I'm just too limited on space for both. I'll be constructing a flip-up outfeed table very soon, but still think I'll probably go the circular saw/sawhorse route. Thanks for all the replies/advice!


In my opinion you are very wise to choose the portable saw . 

I didn't discover this straight edge method until later in life but find it very useful and very safe . I'll not be attempting to break down sheet goods on a table saw again . Even a shop made fixture makes it easy and accurate .


----------



## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

I would never allow a "helper" to touch a piece I was cutting, machining, etc. If you can not do it by yourself, you are out of your league and need to find a safer method. JMO :smile:


----------



## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I hate 5x5 sheets of baltic birch.......they're just beyond what I can easily reach......that said....I find a good direction following helper to be of alot of use.


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

jholly said:


> Here is one
> http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/blades-bits-and-supplies/cutting-platform/
> 
> another one
> ...


I've been using a 4x4 sheet of 3/4 ply on horses, with sufficient 2-by lumber laid out to make sure nothing moves during the cut. However, I recently found this plan over at Bob's Plans, and I've started cutting pieces for it.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

SandburRanch: Thanks for the pics and ideas. A zero-clearance circular saw track actually sounds like a better idea than the 66" clamp track I was looking at...more accurate and cheaper too. I actually have a very long piece of 3/4" MDF laying around...just have to check if it's wide enough. It would make a heavy, but solid sled/track.

SebringDon: Thanks for the link. Those plans are pretty cool! I could see a setup like that being very useful for someone that cuts large sheets regularly. I saved the plans for future reference.


----------



## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

mikeintexas said:


> SandburRanch: Thanks for the pics and ideas. A zero-clearance circular saw track actually sounds like a better idea than the 66" clamp track I was looking at...more accurate and cheaper too. I actually have a very long piece of 3/4" MDF laying around...just have to check if it's wide enough. It would make a heavy, but solid sled/track.
> 
> SebringDon: Thanks for the link. Those plans are pretty cool! I could see a setup like that being very useful for someone that cuts large sheets regularly. I saved the plans for future reference.


That circ saw jig is exactly what I use for ripping plywood down. IF I could make a suggestion, and that is make it wide enough to make sure you have ample clearance from your clamps when using it. My first one was not wide enough, and my saw would hit the clamps before finishing the cut.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Duly noted on the allowing enough width for clamps! I would not have thought of that until I went to make my first cut. Then I would say bad things about my lack of attention to detail.


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

thegrgyle said:


> That circ saw jig is exactly what I use for ripping plywood down. IF I could make a suggestion, and that is make it wide enough to make sure you have ample clearance from your clamps when using it. My first one was not wide enough, and my saw would hit the clamps before finishing the cut.


Seconded on the width. I did the same thing. I've only got about 3/4 inch clamping room on the edge if I'm cutting 3/4" material, but that's plenty with the clamps I use. However, because the saw body gets lower when you cut deeper, my guide is barely usable on 2-by whatevers. I have some old screw clamps with thin clamping faces I have to use. 

My guide piece is 4" wide. I'd go for 5", or better yet measure your saw from the blade to the end of the motor housing and add room for clamping.


----------



## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

mikeintexas said:


> Duly noted on the allowing enough width for clamps! I would not have thought of that until I went to make my first cut. Then I would say bad things about my lack of attention to detail.


Been there, done that..... That is why I suggested it....:yes:



SebringDon said:


> My guide piece is 4" wide. I'd go for 5", or better yet measure your saw from the blade to the end of the motor housing and add room for clamping.


That is sound advise my friend! :yes:


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

*Built a sled*

Hi all,

Just wanted to update the thread. I built a sled, and the best part is that it cost me zilch since I already had all the materials laying around. :yes: I had wanted to build it out of 3/4" MDF for stability, but the MDF piece I have on hand was too narrow. It's width wouldn't allow sufficient clamping space. I happened to also have a 12" wide x 7' piece of 3/4" ply. 

I cut it down to 6' x 10". I used the table saw, which made me nervous cutting such a long and narrow piece...no ill effects, thankfully. :thumbsup:

I had a bit of an issue with the guideboard. My Skil circular saw's motor housing is very close to the shoe. There's less than 1/2" of clearance under the housing, so I couldn't use any of the 3/4" or 1/2" scrap I had laying around. I happened to have a long piece of 3/8" hardboard though, which fit nicely. The board itself is 10" wide x 6' long. The guideboard is 6" wide, which is kind of wide, but leaves me almost 2" for clamping. A ton of Elmer's Wood Glue and a bunch of countersunk 1/2" #6 screws (I think they are #6) later, and those two pieces are now permanently one piece.

Here it is right after cutting.


















Tried to capture just how little room there is under the motor housing...cell phone pics stink.









I drilled two 1" holes at the 1' and 5' marks and hung it on the wall in the garage. Just underneath it, you can see the pile of 5'x5' BB that I'll start chopping up this weekend...or sooner. To the left of the sled you can just make out the 4' aluminum clamp track I've been using on smaller pieces. I'll be glad to not use it anymore.









I haven't used it to cut anything yet but have no doubt it'll do the job really well. Thanks for the suggestions and advice!


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

Just remember to double-check your supports under the panel before cutting. Make sure each side will be supported level after the cut and clamp it all tight. Nothing even wiggles at the end of a cut if I've done everything right. There's just magically a smooth parallel-edged cut down the middle of the panel. It's worth the extra setup time for safety and accuracy.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Yeah, I've been thinking about the mechanics of actually cutting the big panel. Specifically, how to support the cutoff piece as the cut nears it's end. I'd hate for it to snap off and leave a jagged edge...BB isn't cheap and it's a pain for me to get home since I don't have a pickup truck that a 5'x5' sheet will fit in.

I may try to build some kind of a "cutting table" similar to what was linked to in this thread. I can cajole SWMBO into "helping me" in the garage, but any task taking longer than 15 seconds and I get the "can I go now?" look. :yawn:

I do have some 4"x4" cutoffs (they're in the first picture) that I could probably do something with. I'm very tight on space and really don't have the storage room for a cutting table...even of the knockdown sort. My garage is totally sheetrocked, so I don't have the benefit of "rafter-space-storage" that many folks do.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*get a 4 x 8 piece of 2" pink foam*

Home depot sells it. Just plop your plywood on the top of it supported by horses or lay it on the ground if your body is flexible... :laughing: Cut right into it and it will support both pieces. Just watch you depth of cut to be 1/4" below the work.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

I think I found my solution. Just need to buy one long 2x4 and rip it down. Screen grab from a Kreg jig video. Cheap, easy, safe and effective. And cheap. :thumbsup:


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

On the motor clearance: As I adjust the cut depth on my circ saw, the clearance between the motor and shoe changes. You're set for a 2 1/2 cut in that picture. Set it for the depth of your panel (3/4?) and see if you don't have an easier time of it.

On the "table" : I lay a series of four 2x whatevers on a set of sawhorses parallel to my planned cut, with two under the panel each side of the cut, and always clamp the left side to the 2xs. If the cut-off is too narrow, I may use 1 2x and center it under the cut-off. Short cut-offs (2-4 inches in 3/4) I let fall off naturally. If the cut-off side is supported, I clamp it to the 2xs as well. Then I clamp the track edge right along my pencil line. If nothing can move but the saw, your cuts will be dead-on and safe.


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

mikeintexas said:


> I think I found my solution. Just need to buy one long 2x4 and rip it down. Screen grab from a Kreg jig video. Cheap, easy, safe and effective. And cheap. :thumbsup:


Yep, that's the way I do it, but I've got a set of expanding saw horses that open to 4 ft wide. I run 4 pieces of 2xsomething as shown in that pic across the sawhorses.

ETA: Just keep the shoe tight against the track. I let it wander a bit on a couple of my first cuts, but the technique is easy to learn.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

LOL! I forgot about actually raising the saw in the shoe. Well, if I ever have to cut 2.5" material with this saw and sled I know I'm good. Ah, how embarassing!


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

BTW, in that Kreg video, I saw someone cutting on a big sheet of pink foam. That's a great idea, assuming you have the room for a pink monstrousity. I wish i had that kind of room.


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

mikeintexas said:


> LOL! I forgot about actually raising the saw in the shoe. Well, if I ever have to cut 2.5" material with this saw and sled I know I'm good. Ah, how embarassing!


Hey, don't feel bad. I got hit the other way. I'd been humming along cutting 3/4 ply, then my stepson wanted some help making steps for his camper, and that's 2x stuff. I drop the motor down, I'm clamping the track where I did before, and I'm running into the clamps looking really stupid, right? When I dug out some old low-profile c-clamps, the job was back on track.

That's what made me notice where your depth gauge was set. :shifty:

ETA: With no table saw, I've got a 2.5 ft and 1.5 ft track too, and use them for things like the steps.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

LOL! It's the "safe mistakes" like these that bring humor to this hobby of ours. As long as nobody gets seriously hurt, it's just a learning experience, right? :shifty: It was really great that you guys suggested making the track wider to leave clamping room. I would not have done so w/o it being brought to my attention.


----------



## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

mikeintexas said:


> LOL! It's the "safe mistakes" like these that bring humor to this hobby of ours. As long as nobody gets seriously hurt, it's just a learning experience, right? :shifty: It was really great that you guys suggested making the track wider to leave clamping room. I would not have done so w/o it being brought to my attention.


I've learned a ton here. I'm just glad to have a chance to give a little of it back. Since I've got a small shop, I'm leaning toward perfecting the track saw and skipping a table saw altogether. With a bandsaw and a router I don't think I'll miss it too much.


----------



## Woodwart (Dec 11, 2012)

I use a straightedge almost identical to SandburRanch's, and a circular saw. I have a 5' one and a 3' one. If I need a sheet cut along the length, I get the guys at the store to do it.


----------



## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

There are two ways to rip large sheet goods.

If you insist on using a circular saw, the sheet needs to be supported on both sides of the kerf. The easiest way is to put several 2x4s under and across the cut. Set the depth of the cut on the circular saw to about 1/4" deeper than the sheet is thick. You will put saw kerfs in the 2x4. If you are doing the cut on saw horses, clamp the 2x4 to the sheet.

If you don't have a vertical panel saw, a table saw is probably the safest way to cut sheet goods. You MUST have an out feed table and you should have a left side support table. Both of these tables need to be the same height as the table saw.

The technique is the same as you would use for any rip cut. (Pressure against the fence, keep the sheet on the table and use a push pad when the rip is less than 8" between blade and fence)

This is counter intuitive but the thinner the sheet, the more of the blade needs to be above the sheet. When you're ripping Formica or paneling, the wind from the blade tends to lift the material up and over the blade. 

Put one end of the sheet on the edge of the table saw and left side support table. Start the saw, dust collector, etc. and put a push pad/stick to the right side of the fence. Go to the corner sheet that is farthest from the fence. Lift the sheet to a bit higher than the table saw. Push the sheet diagonally toward the opposite corner, to keep the sheet against the fence and through the cut. The angle of your pushing force should be constantly changing and in a straight line, corner of sheet, blade and out feed corner of the fence. As you get toward the end of the cut, your left hand should be pushing the sheet between the table saw and left side support table. Your right hand (with or without a push pad/stick) should be between the blade and fence. Remember, it is a lot easier to use a push stick than drive to the ER with only your left hand.

And for goodness and safety sake *DO NOT USE A HELPER!*


----------



## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Following this thread, I got to thinking about some things I have done. I also have a guide. It originally was a two piece metal guide that I attached a piece of 1/4 panelling to the bottom and then ripped it to end up with what Mike has now.

However, sometimes the big sheets don't want to sit still and there is nothing to clamp to. So I use a sand bag or three. I still have a couple of sand bags I used to anchor my light stands/studio strobe lights so I use them. And I have a trash bag with about 25# of sand in it (left over from filling the other bags). I also have a couple of sacks with 10# barbell weights in them. Using some of these helps stabilize the sheet so it won't walk on ya while you are cutting.

Hope this helps.
Mike


----------

