# Need some help with desk top design



## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

I have an adjustable height desk base:










The base adjusts up/down so you can sit or stand. It has some width adjustment, with a minimum width of 39.5" and a maximum width of 55.5".

I need to design/build a top for this base, and could definitely use some input!

*Goals:*
- This will be a computer desk, and I'll have ~90 lbs on it, mostly from 3 monitors and a monitor stand.
- Top dimensions of ~60" x ~30"
- Weight of top should be < 40 lbs. This is because the adjustable height base can support a moving weight up to 130 lbs in total according to the specs, and I'll have ~90 lbs of gear sitting on the top. It's really the gears in the base that are the weight limiter, as the base can support over 200 lbs if it's not moving.
- I'd like it to have a dark finish, e.g., espresso or similar
- Edges should be comfortable to have arms resting on it (e.g., a bare plywood edge wouldn't work as it would dig into forearms)
- Desk top should be material that can be drilled and will hold screws. I'll be attaching something like wire shelving to the underside as a mounting point for devices like a modem, router, power strips, cabling, which will be secured to the wire shelving using cable ties (goal is to get all this stuff off the desk and out of sight). I'll also want to drill a hole in the top to pass cabling through.

*Skills/time/costs:*
- I'm a total newb to any woodworking beyond basic sawing and drilling.
- Ideally, I'd like a design that is easy/quick to make and still looks good. Since I'd like to start using the standing desk right away, if the design takes a bit longer to build, I can get a cheap sheet of 3/4" plywood at Lowes/HD and use that as a temporary top, which will give me more time to work on the nicer/permanent top.
- Costs: inexpensive while still looking good. Bet you've never heard that before! :laughing:

*Tools available:*
- Black & Decker Workmate
- 12" ratchet clamps
- cordless drill
- handsaw

A friend of mine is a contractor and I can probably borrow some tools from him, but since he makes a living with his tools, I'd like to minimize any borrowing to very limited duration - i.e., maybe borrow something for an afternoon and get it back to him. He's got a planar, router, etc. Not that I know how to use any of these things, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be terribly difficult to figure out how.

*Some ideas I had:*
- 3/4" plywood with laminated flooring laid on top










Seems like this would save time as it eliminates a lot of sanding, staining, filling and sealing associated with finishing a plywood top. Would need some kind of edge treatment to cover the plywood edge as well as the edges of the laminated boards.

- a top made with 1x4 or 1x6 boards would be really cool, but it seems like that might be difficult and involved, plus I don't have the type of bench and clamps that I imagine one would need to glue and clamp the boards together. Weight would be another factor as I'd like to keep the entire top to < 40 lbs.

- Buying a butcher block type top off Craigslist and refinishing it. Seems like this would require time, but not much in terms of tools. Just a lot of sanding, staining, sealing. Weight might be a factor though as I imagine a butcher block in the range of 60" x 30" would be over 40 lbs.

Thanks in advance for any ideas and input! :smile:


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## nwoodward (Feb 2, 2014)

A newb to wood working but a detailed project manager! I've never put together so much info for a table top in my life. Maybe I should start. Go with the butcher block top. You can buy a pre-made sanded top at a big store like menards and apply a quart of stain and two finish coats of poly and be done with it.


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

nwoodward said:


> A newb to wood working but a detailed project manager! I've never put together so much info for a table top in my life. Maybe I should start. Go with the butcher block top. You can buy a pre-made sanded top at a big store like menards and apply a quart of stain and two finish coats of poly and be done with it.


I like the look of butcher block, but new, it's out of my budget (most of the desk budget went toward the adjustable height base!). A Craigslist find is definitely a possibility as I might find a butcher block table in a moving sale and just remove the legs.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The lack of tools is going to make it difficult for you. You might consider getting a solid core door and cut it to the length you need and purchase some chair rail molding to go around it. You would just need to get a wood miter box and a back saw to miter the trim.


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> The lack of tools is going to make it difficult for you.


I can use my friend's miter saw. It's not something I'd feel comfortable borrowing, but if I take good measurements and mark where I need the cuts, I can bring the materials to his place and he'll cut/miter them.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

With just the tools you listed as owning, you're SOL on most types of tops. The butcher-block style top is your best bet for strength, especially for the load you're looking to support. It can be done pretty inexpensively with something like spruce framing lumber, but ideally you need a table saw, thickness planer, jointer and some pipe clamps. You could pretty easily ditch the planer and jointer, in a pinch you could get by without the table saw just using a circular saw and a straight edge, I suppose its possible to go at it with just a hand saw, but the clamps are a bit of a necessity. As far as your idea of 3/4 ply with laminate flooring on it, its not a bad way to go, but a few of my views to consider:
1) 3/4 seems a little thin to me for the load you're looking to carry, I'd double up on the ply and go to 1 1/2 inch thick. To me, better to overbuild than under.
2) attachment of the flooring. Mainly, how do you plan to. The best way I can think of is wood glue or maybe contact cement, followed up with brad nails. Suppose you could manage nailing it all by hand, but I'd imagine a pneumatic nailer to be a real hand saver.
3) plywood edges. To be honest, they aren't all too attractive, nor are they usually easy on the hands, so finishing the ends is something to consider. Iron on edge banding materials are available, but personally I've always preferred solid word edging. 

All things considered, I think seeing if your contractor friend has a table saw would simplify a lot of things.with the tools you listed, there's not a lot of good possibilities, doubly so if you don't have any experience woodworking. On that note, if you find yourself in Springfield, Mo, lemme know, I'd love to help out


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

epicfail48 said:


> With just the tools you listed as owning, you're SOL on most types of tops. The butcher-block style top is your best bet for strength, especially for the load you're looking to support. It can be done pretty inexpensively with something like spruce framing lumber, but ideally you need a table saw, thickness planer, jointer and some pipe clamps. You could pretty easily ditch the planer and jointer, in a pinch you could get by without the table saw just using a circular saw and a straight edge, I suppose its possible to go at it with just a hand saw, but the clamps are a bit of a necessity.


My friend has these sorts of tools. I'd just rather not borrow the really expensive ones (like the miter saw) or take on a project that involved borrowing tools for more than a few hours. For things like the miter saw, it would probably work best if I measured and marked all the cuts and brought him the ready-to-cut pieces; also best if I don't make things too involved on his end - the guy does this stuff all day for work, so I'd feel bad asking him to do much during his time off.



epicfail48 said:


> As far as your idea of 3/4 ply with laminate flooring on it, its not a bad way to go, but a few of my views to consider:
> 1) 3/4 seems a little thin to me for the load you're looking to carry, I'd double up on the ply and go to 1 1/2 inch thick. To me, better to overbuild than under.


I needed a temporary top, so I could start using the desk, so I picked up a sheet of cheap 23/32" plywood and had the store cut it to 60" x 30". I didn't bother finishing it since it's meant to be a quick/temporary solution; just sanded the edge so it wouldn't dig into my forearms. It's holding up the weight just fine - at least so far. I could glue and screw 2 pieces for extra strength, but given the size I need, that means 2 4'x8' sheets, and for stain-grade plywood, that's pushing near $100. Would like to stay closer to half that if possible.



epicfail48 said:


> 2) attachment of the flooring. Mainly, how do you plan to. The best way I can think of is wood glue or maybe contact cement, followed up with brad nails. Suppose you could manage nailing it all by hand, but I'd imagine a pneumatic nailer to be a real hand saver.


Laminate flooring expands/contracts, so I think I'd have to leave it floating. Not sure if I would need to bother with underlayment; just let it expand/contract on the plywood base.



epicfail48 said:


> 3) plywood edges. To be honest, they aren't all too attractive, nor are they usually easy on the hands, so finishing the ends is something to consider. Iron on edge banding materials are available, but personally I've always preferred solid word edging.


Agreed. They are hideous. I'd definitely do some edge treatment, I'm just clueless as I've never done any edge work before. Not sure iron-on edge banding would work with laminate flooring - the edge of the board won't all be flush with the edge of the plywood because the flooring boards have cutouts that allow them to interlock. 

I guess I could cut the interlocking edges off the end pieces to provide a flush surface, and iron on some edge banding that covers both the plywood and flooring boards. That might work!

If I wanted the appearance of a thicker top, I suppose solid wood edging is the way to go. How is this applied? Glue and clamps, followed by screws into the edge of the plywood?



epicfail48 said:


> All things considered, I think seeing if your contractor friend has a table saw would simplify a lot of things.with the tools you listed, there's not a lot of good possibilities, doubly so if you don't have any experience woodworking. On that note, if you find yourself in Springfield, Mo, lemme know, I'd love to help out


Thanks, I appreciate the offer!


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

epicfail48 said:


> With just the tools you listed as owning, you're SOL on most types of tops. The butcher-block style top is your best bet for strength, especially for the load you're looking to support. It can be done pretty inexpensively with something like spruce framing lumber, but ideally you need a table saw, thickness planer, jointer and some pipe clamps. You could pretty easily ditch the planer and jointer, in a pinch you could get by without the table saw just using a circular saw and a straight edge, I suppose its possible to go at it with just a hand saw, but the clamps are a bit of a necessity. As far as your idea of 3/4 ply with laminate flooring on it, its not a bad way to go, but a few of my views to consider:
> 1) 3/4 seems a little thin to me for the load you're looking to carry, I'd double up on the ply and go to 1 1/2 inch thick. To me, better to overbuild than under.
> 2) attachment of the flooring. Mainly, how do you plan to. The best way I can think of is wood glue or maybe contact cement, followed up with brad nails. Suppose you could manage nailing it all by hand, but I'd imagine a pneumatic nailer to be a real hand saver.
> 3) plywood edges. To be honest, they aren't all too attractive, nor are they usually easy on the hands, so finishing the ends is something to consider. Iron on edge banding materials are available, but personally I've always preferred solid word edging.
> ...


He is only putting 80 pounds on it. That is NOT a heavy load. In addition it is supported all the way across in the middle.

One sheet of ply should be sufficient.

George


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

From an esthetic view point I would go with the butcher block.

However, even a cheap door should do the job. Have you weighed your monitors? I cannot imagine that three of them plus a stand will weigh as much as 90 Pounds. The 24" monitor in front of me weighs less than 10 pounds.

George


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## rubberduck (Jun 24, 2014)

Mitreing 4 pieces of wood shouldn't take any longer than 10 minutes especially if there's two of you on the job. Something chap with pinned on edging seems the way forward.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

GeorgeC said:


> He is only putting 80 pounds on it. That is NOT a heavy load. In addition it is supported all the way across in the middle.
> 
> One sheet of ply should be sufficient.
> 
> George


I overbuild whenever possibly, and 90 pounds may not be a high dynamic load, but a 90 pound static load over a period of time, especially towards the edges I could see causing some issues, especially if said issues are 90 pounds of computer monitors sliding off the edge. Even with the center supported the edged of the ply still aren't, and further to the back of the desk is where I imagine the load will be placed


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

GeorgeC said:


> However, even a cheap door should do the job. Have you weighed your monitors? I cannot imagine that three of them plus a stand will weigh as much as 90 Pounds. The 24" monitor in front of me weighs less than 10 pounds.


I was guesstimating conservatively, but you're right, I was way off. The monitors weigh ~7 lbs each. So ~21 lbs in monitors, ~25 lbs for the stand. Plus another 15-20 lbs in assorted devices strapped to the bottom of the plywood, speakers, keyboard, notebooks, etc. So total of 60-65 lbs.

I may add more 1-3 more monitors to this setup over time, so total could go up.


rubberduck said:


> Mitreing 4 pieces of wood shouldn't take any longer than 10 minutes especially if there's two of you on the job.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking - just swing by my friend's place with measured pieces, and be on my way in under 20 minutes.



rubberduck said:


> Something chap with pinned on edging seems the way forward.


Pinned on meaning glued and nailed?



epicfail48 said:


> I overbuild whenever possibly, and 90 pounds may not be a high dynamic load, but a 90 pound static load over a period of time, especially towards the edges I could see causing some issues, especially if said issues are 90 pounds of computer monitors sliding off the edge. Even with the center supported the edged of the ply still aren't, and further to the back of the desk is where I imagine the load will be placed


Load is center rear, and will go above the static weight when adjusting the desk's height, which I'm doing several times/day.

Plus, as mentioned above, I may add more monitors to this setup (the stand can accommodate up to 3 more monitors). So I wouldn't mind the peace of mind that comes with doubling up 3/4" sheets of plywood to get to 1 1/2".

As for cost, I just realized I only need one nice piece of plywood; I can use the current sheet as the bottom.

So a couple of questions if I go this route. Let's call the current sheet 'pine' (which it is) and the nice sheet I'll need to buy 'birch'.

1. Should I attach the pine sheet under the birch sheet with glue and screws? I have some Elmers Carpenter's Wood Glue. Is that good enough? I assume you put the screws in while the glue is still wet?

2. Since it's already mounted to the base, the pine sheet has screw holes in it. Can I re-use these same holes once I've doubled up the plywood sheets? 

Or am I better off trimming the pine sheet by an inch on two sides and re-centering it (this would enable me to drill new holes about an inch away from the current holes)?

3. The latter would mean that the pine sheet is a little smaller in length and width than the birch sheet. In that case, I assume iron-on edging won't work and I should go with wood strips for an edge treatment.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

One approach is to build a torsion box. These can be made very light and super strong. The idea is create a frame that you put skins on the top and bottom. The skins act in concert to form a very rigid surface. Here's a decent treatment of the idea. I'd scale it down to meet your needs. Using 2 3/8" plywood skins and 3/4" x 3/4" grid, you will get a fairly rigid unit that should hold 90 lbs no problem. You can put a 1.5" border around it to make a nice round over edge that is comfortable on your arms.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

A simple top would be plywood covered with a Formica type laminate. 


















.


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

Now that I know how to apply stain and topcoat, I'm thinking I'll get a 1/4", 1/2" or 3/4" piece of oak or birch plywood and stain/seal it and mount it onto my existing desk top, which is 3/4" pine plywood.

In terms of edge treatment, I was at Lowes and saw this iron-on veneer: http://www.lowes.com/pd_16545-99899-34210_0__?Ntt=16545

Since my top would be > 3/4" thick, I guess I need to use two strips of this edging and then trim excess (e.g., if using 1/4" oak on top of existing 3/4" pine, I'll have 1/2" excess of edging) with a trimmer like this, correct? http://www.lowes.com/pd_51127-99899-33437_0__?productId=3471105&Ntt

Would the demarcation between the two strips of edging be obvious?

Here's where it gets tricky: my existing pine plywood top is screwed into the desk's base, so once I remove it, I suppose I can't reuse the same holes. Also, I'd rather not be out of a desk for as long as it takes to stain and apply several layers of topcoat, which is why I'm thinking of placing a stained/sealed piece on top of the existing pine plywood. But that introduces a complication with the edging, which I'll also want to stain/seal - how can I stain/seal that before attaching it to the pine plywood? Is that even possible?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

You complain about the lack of tools, not wanting to borrow, and the cost of materials. For the time you took to type all your responses, you could have had the box store cut to size a piece of ¾" hardwood plywood, and be done with it.:yes:


















.


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

cabinetman said:


> You complain about the lack of tools, not wanting to borrow, and the cost of materials. For the time you took to type all your responses, you could have had the box store cut to size a piece of ¾" hardwood plywood, and be done with it.:yes:


I was trying to see if there was a way to double up the plywood - i.e., buy a piece of oak or birch to stain and put on top of existing pine desk top, but I can't think of a good way to do the edging (including staining/sealing the edging) without removing the pine desk top and being without the desk for some period of time.

Yeah, I'm well aware that the box store will cut the plywood - that's what I did with the existing pine piece.

Anyway, I guess I'll forget doubling up and just get a piece of 3/4" oak, apply edging, stain/seal and replace the pine.

Will a little sanding of the edge of oak plywood be sufficient for iron-on banding to adhere well (thinking there are still lots of tiny voids in the edge)?


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

needmorecoffee said:


> I was trying to see if there was a way to double up the plywood - i.e., buy a piece of oak or birch to stain and put on top of existing pine desk top, but I can't think of a good way to do the edging (including staining/sealing the edging) without removing the pine desk top and being without the desk for some period of time.
> 
> Yeah, I'm well aware that the box store will cut the plywood - that's what I did with the existing pine piece.
> 
> ...


Be careful sanding so as not to break the top corner, you don't want the top of the edge rounded over, cutting with a good sharp blade should be adequate.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

needmorecoffee said:


> I was trying to see if there was a way to double up the plywood - i.e., buy a piece of oak or birch to stain and put on top of existing pine desk top, but I can't think of a good way to do the edging (including staining/sealing the edging) without removing the pine desk top and being without the desk for some period of time.


There is a way. Leave the bottom piece in place. Cut the top piece the same size. Edge the piece with 1½" solid wood edging flush with the top and protruding past the underside. Stain and finish the top piece as desired. When installed, the edging will cover the bottom edge, and the top will look double thick.


















.


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## woodchux (Jul 6, 2014)

Great input and ideas from previous posts! Here's a thought - have you asked your contractor friend what his ideas are for your table? Tell him what you have said here and hopefully he will give you a positive response. Perhaps he may build one for you for a nominal fee, but if he is busy with "work" work, he may take longer than you are willing to wait. 
Be safe.
woodchux


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

cabinetman said:


> There is a way. Leave the bottom piece in place. Cut the top piece the same size. Edge the piece with 1½" solid wood edging flush with the top and protruding past the underside. Stain and finish the top piece as desired. When installed, the edging will cover the bottom edge, and the top will look double thick.


That's a good idea, thanks. Just have to figure out if the resulting higher height of the monitors in the seated position will work for me.



FrankC said:


> Be careful sanding so as not to break the top corner, you don't want the top of the edge rounded over, cutting with a good sharp blade should be adequate.


Noted, thanks. If I go the iron-on edging route, I was thinking of getting that edging-specific trimmer (http://www.lowes.com/pd_51127-99899-33437_0__?productId=3471105&Ntt), but I guess taking my time with a fresh blade in a utility knife should handle it.

My other concern re: iron-on edging is will it adhere well to plywood edges even with all the small voids you typically see even in hardwood plywood?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

needmorecoffee said:


> I have an adjustable height desk base





needmorecoffee said:


> That's a good idea, thanks. Just have to figure out if the resulting higher height of the monitors in the seated position will work for me.


Sounds like you're looking for excuses.


















.


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## needmorecoffee (Jun 27, 2014)

cabinetman said:


> Sounds like you're looking for excuses.


You're reading too much into it.

I'm already lowering the desk as low as it can go in seated position, so any doubling up means the monitors go higher. In standing, it wouldn't make any difference because I'm not at the other end of the adjustment range.


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