# Sanding for a good finish on softwoods such as Pine?



## NEWOSA65 (May 18, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I'm new on here and glad i found this forum as i have a question with regards to sanding timber for a good finish before applying water based stains.

I make furniture items and have been doing since 1990. When the item is completed i then sand it using my Bosch orbital sander. For a while now i have been having problems with the final finish just after sanding the wood - when i apply the water based palatte wood dye (liberon) i seem to be having constant problems with little scrolls or small circles on the surface of the wood which may sound rather odd after 20 years in the trade, but only just starting to have these problems!!!!

Can anyone suggest why this is happening? I used to use very basic sandpaper (ie., with a thin paper backing) but it seems that since i have started buying the more expensive sandpaper, the type that lasts longer due to thicker backing, i have been having noticable problems when i apply the stain!

I use a 120 grit on PAR softwood pine - cannot remember now what i used all those years ago but maybe i used a 150 grit in those days? The pine that i buy does not really have many flaws in it to sand out so maybe i could get away with using the 150 grit to just 'clean' the timber which may stop the small scrolls??

Anyway advice would be much appreciated as i am struggling to sort this issue out.. has anyone else had problems here, if so i would like to hear from you and how you got over it, if you did that is..

Kind regards,

Simon











​


----------



## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

I suspect, and this is just a WAG, that the problem is with the sand paper.
Maybe try different brands and different compositions. 
I take pine to 220 and hand sand with a home made flat sander that takes a 1/3 sheet.


----------



## NEWOSA65 (May 18, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.

When you say hand sander can you be more specific on what you use here - how do you go on when you sand a door where the style meets the rail as i thought that an orbital sander was the only thing one could use in this situation?

220 grit is a fine graded paper which i presume would eliminate the imperfections that i have been getting. It is a big problem for me at minute as no matter how much time i spend sanding i cannot eliminate these small scrolls in the timber (if i do eliminate them i finish up getting more elsewhere!). I may try what you have suggested though but was under illusion that the better quality sand paper which lasts longer would have been more than suitable to achieve a good finish? At one time of day i just used to fit say a 120 grade sandpaper on my old black decker orbital sander - 1/3 sheet - and didn't spend much time either sanding and as i recall always achieved a consistant finish! So, I am totally confused with what is happening now!

Cheers my friend


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Sandpaper cost very little in the overall scheme of woodworking. Use the finest grade that accomplishes getting rid of your little swirlls.

G


----------



## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

When I sand, I start with 60, then 100, then 150, then 220. If I get swirlies from the hand sander, I know I didn't do a good enough job sanding with previous grits.


----------



## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

It depends on the material surface, I hand pick and use EWC with -0- knots, (occasionally) there may be some sap beads to scrape off in general the surface is always in good repair. 

Most times I start out with 120 on the palm sander then go to hand sanding with the grain and work my way up to 400 if the surface is to be Tung and or clear poly. I also go on to 0000 steel wool between coats for a glass finish.


----------



## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

NEWOSA65 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> When you say hand sander can you be more specific on what you use here - how do you go on when you sand a door where the style meets the rail as i thought that an orbital sander was the only thing one could use in this situation?
> 
> ...


----------



## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

I can't recall where I read it, but I think I read that some of the older palm sanders, (which I have and it does) left the loop effect on soft woods, can't say I noticed it on oak, but then the lighting in my shop isn't what it should be.


----------



## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

Swirls are caused by one or two larger or harder particles in the grit. 
I always insure that the pad is free of small debris before I stick it on.
Maybe Stearate coated paper would help, also.


----------

