# Chain Modification



## bradleywellsoff (Nov 27, 2008)

I am currently ripping with a chainsaw mill and a full chisel chain. I was told if I regrind the cutters on the chain to 12 deg. that this would clean out quicker and lighten the load on my saw. I know I should be using a ripping chain, but these full chisel chains are available at the local hardware at a fare price. Will this work?

P.S. Thanks Daren for inviting me over here


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Welcome. 12 would help. I think 10 degrees is how most people do it though. I don't do much ripping with my saws so maybe someone with more experience will chime in.

I guess I don't have to mention chains ground like this are more likely to kick back also...be careful.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

hey bradley, welcome. 

I've tried quite a few different angles. I finally settled into full comp, chisel, 5°.

I tried several angles between 0 and 10, skip, round, you name it. I prefer the above for a good compromise between speed, longevity of the edge, and smoothness. 

I run a 50", 60" and a 6 foot bar so I don't like sharpening them any more than I have to. Also I find the difference in speed between a skip tooth and a full comp chain are not that big.

There's a book by a guy named Will Malloff titled *Chainsaw Lumbermaking*. It's available on amazon sometimes. Long out of print. I got my copy on Amazon, had been on a waiting list ofr a long time and then when it vcame availaible I shelled like $60 for it or something like that. 

There are currently 7 available starting at $85 and up from there. The book is still relevant although it's a quarter century old now. 

You can my book by going to the Amazon link above. There was no image pof the nbook so I uploaded a picture of mine onto Amazon so peeps could at least see what it looks like. 

A lot of money, but, well worth it to me.


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## Rodney Sinclair (Aug 17, 2008)

Bradley, I run the Logosol M7 and use what they call the Big Mill to quarter cut with. My saw is the Huskey 385 and I have 4 bars for it. Those being 16", 20" and 24" using the LP (picco) chain. And the 36" using standard 3/8 chain. All filed with a 10* angle. 90% of the time with what I mill, I use the 16" bar. That's because like TT said, I don't really get off on filing. But the big thing is the shorter the bar the shorter the chain and that costs less. And it's really all I need.

With all that said, I'll tell you that I've also been caught short a few times and had to go to a smaller saw(Stihl ms310) with a standard 30* angle and it cut just fine. The only difference I can tell is it's just a little rougher cut that will end up going through the planer anyway.

Hope this helps
Rodney


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## bradleywellsoff (Nov 27, 2008)

Rodney, I'm running an Alaskan mill on a Stihl 441. I almost always mill with a 36" blade because the mill attachment eats up about 4" of cutting area. I had a chain for my 25" bar ground to 10* today (much to the dismay of my local chain guy) so I'm going to give that a whirl before I grind my 36 down.


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## Kirk Allen (Nov 7, 2006)

I have several 10 degree ripping chains. They seem to work great on just about any hardwood I have cut. 385XP husky does most of the work although I have used my smaller 372 XP on smaller logs.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Using a short bar is not always the best option. I would rather run a 50" bar through five 36" crotches before a resharp, as opposed to running a 36" through two of them, because that is how the math works out in reality, and it means a LOT less sharpening.

The less number of teeth, the more work they have to do and the more often they have to be sharpened. 

If you are hand filing then yeah short chains are more user-friendly. If you are efficient with a grinder then long chains are not so bad when you know how to avoid sharpening them so frequently.

Just my own experience. YMMV.


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## Rodney Sinclair (Aug 17, 2008)

TexasTimbers said:


> Using a short bar is not always the best option. I would rather run a 50" bar through five 36" crotches before a resharp, as opposed to running a 36" through two of them, because that is how the math works out in reality, and it means a LOT less sharpening.


Yeah, and most all the problems I've had with a chainsaw mill started with trying to get one more cut with a dull chain. When I said I didn't get off on filing(sharpening) didn't mean I don't do it.

Rodney


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## Rodney Sinclair (Aug 17, 2008)

TexasTimbers said:


> The less number of teeth, the more work they have to do and the more often they have to be sharpened.


Also takes less saw to pull that chain. Do ya think there might be a reason they don't put 44' tires on a VW?

Rodney


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## Rodney Sinclair (Aug 17, 2008)

TexasTimbers said:


> If you are hand filing then yeah short chains are more user-friendly. If you are efficient with a grinder then long chains are not so bad when you know how to avoid sharpening them so frequently.


Not real sure what this crack is supposed to mean. Guess it means we went to different schools.

Rodney


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## slabmaster (Mar 30, 2008)

I think all he was saying is that a smaller chain has less teeth and has to be sharpened more often as the fewer teeth wear faster than a long chain does.:yes:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Yep, that's all I was saying. Wasn't making a crack at anyone. 

I agree you do have to have the power available to do it. But when you are pulling a chain around a 50" bar, through a 35" crotch for example, you aren't seeing all that much more resistance than if you were running a 36" bar because you are still only pushing chain through 35" of wood. The resistance of the drive links riding in the bar groove should not be so dramatic as that or else you have some other issue. 

The biggest difference is that you won't have to sharpen your chain as frequently on the 50" bar. It means sharpening a few more teeth when you do, but I am saying it's quicker to sharpen a few more teeth if I can get one or two more slabs from the 35" crotch.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Hey Kevin are you going to post that video on YouTube you said you shot ripping that big oak crotch I have seen a picture of ? I keep meaning to ask you in private, but forget every time we talk (cause we go 100 miles an hour in all directions :laughing


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I have tried to edit it a couple times and I get side-tracked while on the puter. Answering emails, watching aviation videos, blah blah 

Maybe I will take another shot at it tonite. Sun will be down in about 20 minutes and I will not want to stay in the shop any longer and I am not going to build a fire, so maybe I will get-r-done.

That is, if I don't . . . :sleep1:


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## martyweir (Dec 9, 2008)

OK - since we're on the topic: 

I have a home-made ripping jig for my chainsaw. It is similair to the alaskan mill, and I after using it two or three times on red oak & locust, but then I swore it off!! I use standard chains for my Stihl MS 290 with an 18" bar. Chains are always new or recently sharpened. It is a LOT OF WORK & Very Slow!!! It took me a good 15 minutes of gut busting labor to get through one 14" x 8' long red oak log with one cut. After 2 or 3 of these I swore at it, and called it a day. 

My question: How much faster would a ripping chain be? How many bf of average sized hardwood can you guys cut in one hour with your setups???


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I'm not sure you should be dissapointed with 15 minutes through an 8' long, 14" wide red oak using an MS290. That's not a small saw granted, but for milling it is very small. You are asking way too much of it. 

An MS290 is only 56.5cc and less than 4hp. You got to keep it in perspective: It's fine for most felling and bucking, too big for most limbing jobs, but too tiny for milling. 

Ripping chain isn't going to help you much with a saw that is way under-powered and like Daren points out, you are going to send it to an early grave using it for milling. I have a 372XP which quite a bit more saw than what you are using and you wouldn't catch me milling with it. :no:


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## slabmaster (Mar 30, 2008)

As said earlier,a ms390 is way too small for milling.I have a ms390 and it does good just to buck the trees i mill.I would never think of milling with it. I use 066s and 395 huskys for milling and sometimes they are taxed out.I would get the biggest saw you can afford, maby a used one will do.For what you were cutting, i would at least use a 066 or 385 husky.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

Here is a link to Mallof's book on rapidshare: http://rapidshare.com/files/1852683...ng_by_Will_Malloff__1982__Searchable_Text.pdf


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