# Waxy white spots from tung oil



## bbrio1 (Sep 28, 2011)

Hi all, my first post,

I have a little project, rack for home theatre eqpt., and I've made it out of plywood with a veneer face, I'm now at the finishing stage and almost ready to give up.

I chose tung oil after having read good things about it (forgiving, not yellowing with age, etc.). I don't have special requirements (water-proofing, etc.), I just don't want a glossy varnish appearance. My intention was to put on a few coats of tung oil, then a final sand and Carnauba wax. The wood is Imbuia, from Brazil, as far as I know its not especially resinous. 

I was mixing about one third each of raw tung oil/polymerized tung oil/turpentine. Disappointed so far, I should have gone with polymerized only, but I chose the mix because I thought 100% polymerized would be too glossy. But I am really surprised with this whole process. I first sanded the new wood with 220, it looked great. Put on the first coat of my mix - it took just ages to dry, I might not have been diligent enough wiping off the excess as recommended. I read 24 hours between coats, so of course after 24 hours I was eagerly dinking around with the pieces to get ready for coat # 2. But wherever I touched it, I created little lumps or flakes of white, waxy kind of stuff. I attributed this to the oil not having enough time to dry. So I waited. And waited. Until I could handle the pieces without raising these flakes of waxy material (which I assume to be partially dried tung oil). It took about a week. It was really rough looking (and feeling) after a week, but I assumed that was due to some parts of the wood, absorbing more than others and sticking out more - I think that's fairly common with new wood. So I gave it another light sand. Well, it just looked disastrous, all that white stuff was back big time. I removed most of it it with a paint brush followed by a clean rag damp with turpentine and applied second coat. Same mix, this time being a little more thorough wiping off the excess after 30-45 minutes. It took less timme to dry, maybe 3 days, but of course the white stuff appeared if you handled the pieces too early. But after the second coat it didn't look any better than after the first one. It was very dull looking, and still kind of rough to the touch (although nowhere near as rough as after coat #1 - but definitely rougher than the sanded down wood I started with). It was always my intention to put on a 3rd coat, but given the lack of improvement after the second, I'm getting a little impatient. (I know, I know, probably not the best reaction for somebody who would like to dabble in woodworking). 

I was kind of hoping to put on a 3rd coat of Poly tung oil, mixed with varnish and call it a day. I tried a trial piece of this and wet-sanded it with 400. It seemed like the sandpaper was acting more like a squeegee than anything else, I don't think I was actually sanding anything, just sliding along the top of the undried mixture.

I should perhaps mention, that it is not particularly humid here, I guess usually around 60%, and temperatures probably average around 80 degrees, so I wasn't really expecting the long drying times.

This is very long-winded, but I'll try to come to the point now:


Do other people using tung oil have this "waxy" problem? Is it due to not enough drying tiime?
Should I use more turpentine in an effort to put on more coats (but which are faster drying)?
Should I sand between each and every coat?
This wet sanding seems to be a waster of time with my block of sandpaper slipping and slidiing around the surface. Am I doing somoething wrong? Go to a coarser grain (I tried with 400)
If I want to finish with wax, should I therefore not worry about the dull appearance of the oil finish (so far), sand down after my thiird coat and slap on the wax?
Although actually constructing my little project was pleasant, this whole finishing business is getting me down. If I can get the finish I want I think it will look quite nice, but very discouraged right now. I chose tung oil because I am a disaster with varnish (not entirely my fault - lots of dust/bugs here and I have NO WAY to get around it). I am now so impatient and annoyed that I welcome ANY comments/suggestions. Thanks


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

You should be using 100% pure Tung Oil (on the label), or China Wood Oil. Tung oil that is labeled as "Tung Oil Finish" is not Tung Oil, and likely has no Tung Oil in it. It's a mix of BLO, or Soy Oil, a varnish resin, and a solvent, usually mineral spirits.

Pure Tung Oil takes a long time to dry. Even longer if the subject piece wasn't wiped down after application. You might want to strip off what you have, and start again.












 







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## bbrio1 (Sep 28, 2011)

Hi Cabinetman, thanks for the interest and quick reply. Actually, I believe I am using pure tung oil, but two types in equal proportions. One is "raw" tung oil, the other is presumably polymerized (by boiling or whatever, to partially start the polymerization process). The only other additive so far is turpentine. Right now, I've been using equal parts of the 3 components. I'm only thinking to mix the last coat with varnish to get a bit tougher protection.

But like I say, I'm pretty disappointed after 2 coats, it doesn't look liike I will ever approach something like a satiny finish. Of course, it just may be due to my impatience, waiting for this stuff to dry.

I've read that it can take a moonth to "cure" as opposed to just drying. If I eventually get 3 coats on, should I wait for it to fully cure, let's say a full month, before applying wax?

Like I say, really discouraging for a newbie. I'm at the point where I'm thinking: slap on some varnish, light sand and then my Carnauba. If I ever get this thing done I will post some pics because I'm hoping it will turn out OK.

The only positive note in this drama: I've been applying veneer on the edges using white glue, letting it get almost dry, then finishing the process with a hot iron. So far, its worked well, of course its a bit too soon to say. (I chose the white glue/iron because, as with all things involving me and varnish, I am also a disaster with contact glue. So you can see I'm a man of many non-talents. I'm surprised I've gotten this far).

And what do you think about the final coat with tung/varnish mixture?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I stick with regimented sequences for finishes. I would get the mix off of there. I would let each application of oil to dry before recoating. I would wipe excess oil off after 5-10 minutes. I would not use wax at all. Any gluing of edgwork should be done before applying the oil.












 







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## bbrio1 (Sep 28, 2011)

OK. Point taken. By drying, I assume you mean dry to the point where I don't raise any little clumps of semi-hardened oil if I rub it with my finger, and not necessarily fully cured (which, as I understand it can take a month).

Have you ever experienced these waxy deposits? Do you consider it to be insufficient drying time or the result of my mix of the two different kinds of tung oil?

Thanks for your patience


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

dunno if it helps much, but due to lack of "immediate" availability of tung oil, i went with BLO on my vanity project.

first coat was 100% BLO and i've given it a full 48 hrs to dry...

meanwhile, a couple of days ahead, i applied BLO and BLO + Min Spirits on test pieces and when dried, i am in process of applying wipe on poly on top.

i am liking the wipe on poly, dries faster, or so it seems, and smooth...

i also tested a BLO + Min spirit and it does seem to dry faster... maybe when my vanity piece is dried (100% BLO) then i'll go with a couple of more coats of BLO + MS and then start the varnish layering...


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## bbrio1 (Sep 28, 2011)

Kinghong, thanks for feedback. When you say poly, are you meaning polyurethane? If so, I didn't really want to go that route because I am aiming for a "waxed" looking finish (if not actually by using wax, by any other means, since wax doesn't seem to be a good idea according to cabinetman). I guess what I mean is a satin finish as opposed to glossy. And if I understand it, polyurethane would be very glossy.

I originally thought a couple or three coats of oil, looking nicer each time, a final sand with 400-600 and some wax and I would get a nice smooth finish, just like I'm looking for. The funny thing is, after a coat of oil, once dry it doesn't look nice (I have done 2 coats so far). Its completely flat and dull looking, although the colour is nice. If I give it another light sand, and wipe it down, it looks fantastic......until it dries, where it looks dull and flat again. I think the root problem is my impatience. I am unwilling to keep up this process interminably - apply oil, wipe off, wait 2 or 3 days (!!!) for it to be "approximately" dry, light sanding, and repeat and repeat and repeat. Perhaps if I saw some evidence of an improvement in the overall appearance I would perservere, but I'm almost ready to chuck this stupid tung oil and slap on some varnish (knowing full well that, given my dust problems and lack of technique/experience I will make a hash of that as well, but following the varnish with another sanding and a coat of wax in the hopes of camouflaging all my mistakes). 

I now understand when I read on the www that woodworkers often panic when they reach the finishing stage. At least when you're actually building and assembling something, when you make a mistake, you can diddle around, sand, trim, adjust and do something to make it right (or in the worst case, get a new piece of wood and get it right). 

I'm not fiinding this tung oil any more forgiving than any other technique for the time being. I hope I don't run out of patience before the end of this project.

Wow, sort of ranting there. But I continue to welcome all opinions. When I finish I will post pictures. I think my basic design looks good, and am almost sure that the pictures will look nice and everyone will say, "Oh. Good one". But I am loooking at this thing with a VERY critical eye, and from very close range, and all I can see are the defects. Perhaps this is the curse of anybody who tries to make something themselves.


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## kinghong1970 (Jul 28, 2011)

yea, i have a habit of making up my own terms... i meant polyurethane...

you are right, if you slather on the polyurethane, it gives a nasty and plastic feel/look to it.

after some reading, i purchased minwax wiping polyurethane, iirc, this is just thinned out polyurethane... goes on smoother, does not show brush strokes and result is nice...

i am limited to polyurethane because i feel it is the strongest for the vanity, since it is going to be subject to lot of moisture.

as for sheen, i tried semi-gloss, gloss, and satin... satin is not so plasticish... semi gloss is also not too bad.

good luck and post some pics!

oh, and btw, i found some good info here and also in this site...

maybe give one among these combo a try?



> The most common boiled linseed oil (BLO) based recipes are as follows:
> 
> 
> 1 part BLO + 1 part raw Tung Oil (not Waterlox, Dalys, or other tung oils containing resin additives) + 1 part Semi-Gloss urethene varnish (This is the Sam Maloof finish recipe)
> ...


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## bbrio1 (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks again Kinghong. I have seen a lot of those recipes, or very similar, but the link is very useful - they are all in one place. It looks like experimentation until you get the result you want plays an important part.

You are probably right with the poly in your bathroom, you would want something pretty sturdy in that environment.

I actually got quite a decent result yesterday with wet-sanding of an oiil/varnish mix (although I can't really believe that I was actually SANDING anything - the block with sandpaper just seemed to skate around on the top of the coat). But it turned out surprisingly well. Of course I was trying it out on a piece that would not be visible, so maybe one more experiment before trying the same process on the important pieces.

I shall perservere.


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