# Rookie mistake using polyurethane



## Beefquimby (Mar 19, 2015)

I sanded the top of a maple dresser back down to raw wood with 80/150/220 sand paper, cleaned off the dust, used all minwax products (wood conditioner, stain, poly). Everything was going great until the poly. I used fast drying clear satin - applied with a natural bristle brush. The can says it takes 3-4 hours to dry, I waited 8 to be extra safe. It was tacky after 8 hours, but having never done this before, and waiting twice the time explained in the instructions, I figure that's how it stays no matter how long you wait? 

I bought 0000 steel wool and started rubbing the top with it. It scratched the heck out of the top and left gummy little flakes everywhere. Assuming I had ruined it, I took a ton of mineral spirits to the top and rubbed off most all of the poly. The color is still good from my stain job, but it's blotchy now. I don't know what to do now. Do I need to sand back to raw wood, reapply wood conditioner, restain, etc? Can I just sand a little till smooth and repoly without wood conditioning and restaining? What do I do?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think it was fixable until you stuck steel wool in it. Steel wool is dirty and should never be used in the finishing process with any finish. If any smoothing is needed on any finish use sand paper. 

From where you are you might get away with staining again but be prepared to strip everything down to bare wood and start over. Be sure when you stain again you wipe all the excess off especially if there is any steel wool embedded in the finish. If it's still blotchy don't attempt to brush stain on the light spots and allowing it to dry. This will result in the finish not adhering. 

Now to your finish, very few finishes will allow you to apply another coat until the first coat is completely dry. The three to four hour drying time in the instructions is under ideal conditions. If the weather is cool or damp or both the three or four hours could turn into three or four days.


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## phoenixbound (Nov 24, 2014)

Miniwax stains I absolutely HATE! Stinky and not the best stains on the market. If it was an oil stain, it takes a LONG time to dry before you should top coat. When I use oil stains I go over the surface with a hot hair dryer to bubble up stain sitting in pores. I wipe them repeatedly with a dry rag to help get the oil residue out of the pores. I do it again the NEXT day. then I wait ANOTHER day. THEN, if I think the stain is totally dry enough for topcoating, I will proceed with top coating. Poly is my least favorite finish, but since you used it, you need to WAIT longer than 8 hours before taking steel wool to it!! Sure it will be tacky in 8 hours. Nothing new there. Start over from bare wood and TAKE YOUR TIME between staining (3 days AT LEAST, if its an oil stain--gawd I hate Miniwax stains!!!---there I said it again) and top coating. WAIT before touching the newly finished surface for a few days with steel wool if you are determined to use steel wool which is ANOTHER item I hate. I use the synthetic steel wool pads. Nothing to rust, easier to use, more uniform, etc etc.

For flat surfaces you need to use a hard or semi-hard backer for sanding. You can't really do that with steel wool. Throw it all out.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

The proper way to apply Minwax oil based stain is to apply an even but somewhat heavy coat. Then let is set for 15 to 20 minutes and then wipe off all the excess. Now let it dry overnight and apply one more light coat and wipe dry.

The wiping dry is very important. Failure to remove all the excess will prevent the stain from properly drying and any subsequent finish will not dry fully either. It sounds like that is your problem. 

The best fix is to use a chemical stripper containing methylene chloride and remove all the finish. Let the surfaces fully dry and then apply the stain correctly. Wipe the excess and let it dry overnight. Let it dry a second night apply your clear coat. It is not necessary to use a conditioner. If you are not experienced with using a brush to apply your clear coat, practice on some scrap until you are comfortable with your skill. Read the instructions on the label of the Minwax Fast Dry. The Fast Dry needs to be applied in a thin coat. Too heavy an application will lead to runs and impeded drying and curing.


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## Beefquimby (Mar 19, 2015)

I'm not sure if my last reply went through. Thanks for the responses. So... I decided to sand back to bare wood with my orbital and 50 grit paper. I'm back to bare wood, but wet stain is seeping through in little dots everywhere and no matter how deep I get, it won't go away. Any suggestions? Should I use a dark gel stain to cover them up? I feel like if I use the same dark walnut stain I used to begin with, the "polkadotted" will just get darker...


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Completely disagree about not using steel wool. Steel wool is an excellent abrasive and #0000 will give a silky smooth finish. But you can't buy the crap at the big box store. There is finishing grade steel wool available.


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## phoenixbound (Nov 24, 2014)

wericha said:


> Completely disagree about not using steel wool. Steel wool is an excellent abrasive and #0000 will give a silky smooth finish. But you can't buy the crap at the big box store. There is finishing grade steel wool available.



trust me, I get silky smooth finishes when needed, without using steel wool.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

I use 0000 to buff a coat down, never had a problem with it. I also agree about running the warm air blower over the surface, if there's any liquid in the grain it'll crawl back out I had to do that to a bed frame that was sweating over a week after the last coat of Tung was on.

One needs to learn the clues when the mat won't accept another coat. It pays to have the work space in the mid to upper 60s before during and after your done with the process. I also now have the dehumidifier running for all but the last coat, it helps.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The problem with using steel wool for between the coats sanding is if there is any dust or debris in the finish steel wool will just smooth it over and leave it there. Then in the process you are more likely to introduce more debris into the finish as steel wool comes apart and leaves bits of the wool on the surface. Also if there is any unevenness in the surface steel wool will just smooth it instead of leveling the finish. Sandpaper will knock off the dust or debris in the finish as well as leveling the surface.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Beefquimby said:


> I'm not sure if my last reply went through. Thanks for the responses. So... I decided to sand back to bare wood with my orbital and 50 grit paper. I'm back to bare wood, but wet stain is seeping through in little dots everywhere and no matter how deep I get, it won't go away. Any suggestions? Should I use a dark gel stain to cover them up? I feel like if I use the same dark walnut stain I used to begin with, the "polkadotted" will just get darker...


The stain shouldn't get any darker than it already is in those spots. I'd try putting a fresh coat on and seeing if it matches. It probably will, but if it doesn't you'll want to move on to a chemical stripper


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## phoenixbound (Nov 24, 2014)

totally what Steve said.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

I agree completely, but then so does sandpaper both require a clean up after the rub down. I have a couple 6 nylon abrasive pads, 3 for my shop tools and 3 for rub downs. I clean up after using them too, I find pilling.

If I'm looking for high gloss and the glass look, (which I haven't yet achieved perfection at but I'm closing in) I end up at 1200 grit with corning HD foam insul as a backer between coats. The insul also works great for some profile sanding. I then clean the surface with filtered water and old pillow cases, (not threadbare but close).


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## Beefquimby (Mar 19, 2015)

Thanks again for the responses. As for a chemical stripper, it does not need to be stripped. It was down to totally bare wood, but apparently stain seeped way deep into the grain, so there were spots all over the place where it just kept seeping back up to the surface. I was told to let it dry for several days, but I couldn't see how that would help as once dry, it would be dry dots instead of wet dots - same problem. I purchased general finishes Java gel stain today (darker than the original stain I had used) and it seems to have done the trick, although I don't love the color... Is there any way to post photos on here?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you have stain seeping out of the wood after it's wiped off you let it sit too long before wiping it off. I normally wipe a stain off immediately after applying it. 

The reason paint stripper was suggested is because you said you rubbed a still wet finish down with steel wool. A finish still gummy rubbed with steel wool would get debris from the steel wool embedded into the finish so watch for it. We don't have the luxury of being there and seeing the finish. Also if it is blotchy now that would be difficult for you to fix not having dyes and the means of spraying them.

Try this to post pictures.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

The problem with steel wool is that if any of the fine hairs are left behind, they will eventually rust. 
Moisture eventually permeates all finishes and you will see little black dots of rust and eventually it will destroy the finish.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

Tony B

Nearly 20yrs of using 0000 to buff out coats I never had that problem, between what I've kept, and sold (which isn't tons of work but enough to provide feedback if there was an issue) no one ever asked about anomalies occurring in the finish, I guess I've been lucky.


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## phoenixbound (Nov 24, 2014)

Ghidrah said:


> Tony B
> 
> Nearly 20yrs of using 0000 to buff out coats I never had that problem, between what I've kept, and sold (which isn't tons of work but enough to provide feedback if there was an issue) no one ever asked about anomalies occurring in the finish, I guess I've been lucky.


Also, I bet you don't use steel wool on lighter woods when using waterborne finishes. One of my favorite finishes is Enduro waterborne urethane along with crosslinker for exceptional hardness and resistance to chemicals.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

That is a result of having over-applied the stain coat. You have filled the grain pores and the stain in the pores will not dry. As said before, you need to use a paint stripper containing methylene chloride and completely remove the existing finish. Keep wiping down until the bleed-back stops. Once the bleed-back stops, continue to let it set out in a warm spot for a few more days. Once you have gone for 45 days with no bleed-back, you can begin to a stain (apply the stain lightly and thoroughly wipe off all the excess stain. Let it dry for a couple of days and apply your clear coat.


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