# Looking for some feedback for my first tools



## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

These will be some of the first tools I buy for my new shop. I've read the reviews and they all seem decent, just trying to get some other feedback.

Circular Saw:




seems really good for the price

Router:




worried that this might be too cheap?

Router bits:




probably don't need these right away but will eventually, seems like a good price.

Drill bits:




Same reasoning as router bits.

Jigsaw




really great price

Sander:




All the reviewers used it for polishing and said it worked great so I assume that means it'd work great for sanding...

Any feedback would be great. Thanks!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm going to ask a few questions first. More info gives better answers.

What tools do you already have?

What are you looking to build? different jobs need different tools.

Why are you looking at that type of sander/polisher?


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

I own no tools yet aside from a corded household drill. It may not be designed for woodworking, I gotta check. My first project is going to be to build a workbench. I anticipate the majority of my projects will be furniture related (tables, bookshelves, bar, etc), and I may decide to do a backyard deck, hardwood floors, and crown molding. To be honest I just picked that sander because of the price and I read that the best kind of sanders are the random orbital sanders. The one looked decent and got 5/5 for reviews. I admit I am a newb.


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

I'll also add that the plans I found for the workbench use the drill, router and circular saw which is why I listed those as some of the first tools I should buy.


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## joesbucketorust (Dec 13, 2011)

IMHO the circular saw is more of a construction tool than a workshop tool. But if you're going to need to cut lumber down to size for the bench then I can see its uses. I built my shop before the power was in, so I bought a Dewalt cordless. I've rarely pulled out my corded saws since.

Your router choice is a start. I prefer the Bosch 1617 combo, but I'm a snob. I didn't see on the specs where it said it only had a 1/4" collet - is that correct? ( I did see the "people buy" thing with the 1/4, but that doesn't mean anything - I've had Amazon tell me that people buying chainsaw blades also bought orange jello.) If it is only 1/4, I'd find a different router. For the bits - 1/2" shanks are better. And forget the set. I bought the big MLCS set almost a decade ago. 66 pieces and 55 still have the wax coating. Just buy the bits you need when you need them. Eventually you'll get the set _you_ need. 
Same for the 109 piece drilling thing. The plastic case is nice, it will hold the 105 pieces that you will *NEVER* use. 

And that sander is the wrong type. You want something that looks like this. They make them that take velcro and they make them with stick-on. I can't recommend one - I've got two and they both seem to equally suck. 

Based on your future projects you might consider ditching the circular saw and picking up a decent compound miter saw. That tool will be useful in the workshop, and can be used to cut dimensional lumber for outdoor projects.


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

joesbucketorust said:


> IMHO the circular saw is more of a construction tool than a workshop tool. But if you're going to need to cut lumber down to size for the bench then I can see its uses. I built my shop before the power was in, so I bought a Dewalt cordless. I've rarely pulled out my corded saws since.
> 
> Your router choice is a start. I prefer the Bosch 1617 combo, but I'm a snob. I didn't see on the specs where it said it only had a 1/4" collet - is that correct? ( I did see the "people buy" thing with the 1/4, but that doesn't mean anything - I've had Amazon tell me that people buying chainsaw blades also bought orange jello.) If it is only 1/4, I'd find a different router. For the bits - 1/2" shanks are better. And forget the set. I bought the big MLCS set almost a decade ago. 66 pieces and 55 still have the wax coating. Just buy the bits you need when you need them. Eventually you'll get the set _you_ need.
> Same for the 109 piece drilling thing. The plastic case is nice, it will hold the 105 pieces that you will *NEVER* use.
> ...


Thank you for this. I'm going to refine my list taking every piece of advice you put in here. I'm glad you pointed out the circular saw cause I felt like that was a must have based on other research I've done, but if the miter saw does what I need it to then theres no point in getting both. I figured the sets would be overdoing it but just wanted to make sure. Thanks again.


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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Hi there. You can get good circular saws for much less money. I'd save money there and buy a better quality router, with fixed and plunge bases. And a good random orbit sander is probably a better choice for you.

I'm not sure what your budget is, so I don't want to be pushy or snobby. But with tools, it usually saves money in the long run to buy quality (though I still stand by my circular saw advice above)

Good brands are basically what you'd expect
dewalt
ridgid
makita
milwauki
bosch
hitachi
porter-cable
Each of those brands have a few lemons, but you can generally count on quality.

Ryobi, Skil, and Black & Decker aren't quite in the same class. (although I do really like my Skil circular saw) They will get the job done, but if you use them consistently you'll probably end up replacing them with higher quality eventually anyway. And that means more money.

Same with blades and bits. Higher quality will end up lasting you longer, and saving you money in the long term. Not to mention cutting cleaner and safer. 

Just something to think about. I don't want you to think that you have to throw down tons of money to get started on an enjoyable hobby. If you like Skil, then by all means buy Skil. There are certainly tons of woodworkers out there who are much much better than me, and don't use name brands.
Have fun.
--Matt


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Frankly I'd stay away from Skil, Ryobi and Black & Decker and invest in tools that will last for a while. It's frustrating to have to replace a tool that you spent good money on and didn't do what you need. I know there are members here who have been happy with tools made by this tier of manufacturer but I've had some and I wasn't. Probably the lone exception is the Skil router combo set which I have heard good things about. It only comes with a 1/4" collet which means only use router bits with a 1/4" stem. These are less robust and have a higher chance of failure. You can use a 1/2" collet with this set so that would be the first thing I pick up. Otherwise it seems to be a good value:
Amazon.com: Skil 1830 120V 2-1/4 HP Combo Base Router Set: Power & Hand Tools

I started out with this router bit set:
Amazon.com: MLCS 8377 15-Piece Router Bit Set with Carbide-Tipped 1/2-Inch Shanks: Home Improvement
It's not too expensive and gives you a little bit of several typical profiles. When you are getting started it's nice to be able to experiment a little. From there you can invest in good individual bits for your needs. Get 1/2" shanks if you have the collet.

Get a good random orbital sander like the Milwaukee, Dewalt, Bosch or Makita.

You will need a good cordless drill driver. Pick a brand and look at the other tools you might want that run on the same battery system. For example if you have a Home Depot nearby you will have the Ridgid, Milwaukee and Dewalt lines to choose from. 12 volt tools are less expensive and probably more than enough power.

A miter saw is great to have for cross cuts and miter cuts. It will be very important for some of the projects you mention. However, you will likely need to rip a board along it's length or cut a plywood sheet to size. For this you will need a circular saw or table saw. Depends on how serious you want to get. 

Congratulations on having the strength to admit you are new and need advice. Not everyone was handed their first hammer the day they were born! Better to get it out of the way, get some help to get on track and start building that workbench. As you can see, the folks here are more than happy to provide their thoughts! Good luck and keep us posted. :thumbsup:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

OK so I asked the questions and everyone gave good advice. 

A few things I would disagree with is although the compound miter saw is good advise you should get a circular saw it will allow you to rip lumber and you will always have a use for it. Ideally a table saw would be better for your future projects list but they are more expensive and will take a little more learning then just using a circular saw. I don't have a big problem with the Skil circular saw.

For cordless tools while I like my DeWalt stuff but they have pissed me off lately because they change the battery style when they come out with newer better batteries. I noticed I think Milwaukee but definitely Ryobi has a line of tools that the newer batteries can be used in the older tools so your not wasting a tool just because the batteries die and the new style batteries are completely different. You already have a corded drill so thats good for now.

As stated the bit sets are a waste of money in my opinion. You could throw away 50% of the stuff in the kit because you probably won't use it. However if you get 100 piece set for $10- $15 and you get drill bits some screwdriver, nut driver, torque, square and star bits that are not the useless 1" bits then it may be worth it.

MLCS has decent router bits and I wouldn't buy anything larger then the 15 pc set for the same reason as above.

So a Circular saw, Compound miter saw or both.

A ROS with hook and loop. I have the PC and Dewalt they are about the same. I also have the Ryobi 1/4 sheet sander but it's not a ROS and the Ryobi ROS I have is the peel and stick type which i really don't like.

A Router. I have 2 Porter Cable and 1 Dewalt that I like and I have the Plunge, fixed and D handles for both. I have a Ryobi similar to the one you listed that my teenage son bought me for Christmas. If I had to choose just one I would go with the Dewalt or PC. Now there are a few others people mentioned that I would try also but I'm only telling you what I have and know about.

The 15pc MLCS router bit set and maybe the drill /driver bit set if they don't cost to much.

For Saw blades for Circular, Compound miter and or Table saws the Diablo line at HD is a good blade and value.

Now as for a Jigsaw I'm not sure you will need one often. Personally I burnt up 2 B&D jigsaws with heavy use. So light use they might be OK. I switched to Dewalt and never had another problem. Bosch would be another good choice.

Don't forget a respirator. Your lungs will love you for it.


As mentioned cheaper tools generally mean lesser quality. However if your not going to use it all the time you may get away with a cheaper brand. As I said I burnt up both B&D jigsaws but it was with heavy to commercial use. They not only replaced them they gave me that much of a credit towards the upgrade for the dewalt. That was at the Service center.


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

After reading through everyones comments and doing some more research this is what I've come up with.





 Half the price of the previous circular saw I picked out and looks to be just as good. Only thing would be to change the blade.





This would be the blade I get. I read up on the different types of blades and what the number of teeth signify and what not, but I don't understand why you would ever want to use a 24-tooth blade. Wouldn't you want your cut to be as smooth as possible?





 Router recommended by Shop Dad. The only downside is its 1/4-inch and I haven't been able to find a 1/2-inch collet that is compatible with it. Is a 1/4-inch router not worht it? From what I've read elsewhere I'm going to use both eventually. Plus I can get this router refurbished from the site for $70 which is even cheaper than amazon.





 MLCS router bits. After looking up individual prices for bits ($20+), I don't see why I wouldn't want to buy a set. If I find a 1/2-inch collet then I'll just buy the 1/2-inch set.

Everything else I'm going to wait on. I only need the saw, router and drill to build the workbench. I'll wait to shop for sanders, jigsaws, etc til after I've built that.

Thanks for any help!


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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Hey, looks like you've been doing some good research.

The circular saw looks great.

The router description on Amazon says that it does have a 1/2 inch collet. 

"The Skil 1830 combo-base router features a 1/2-inch collect capacity and comes with a 1/4-inch collet adapter for larger profile applications. The tool weighs 10.7 pounds."

Here's a link to another router that's a comparable price.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00927683000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

I've never actually used either router, so I can't give you first hand experience, but it's another option for you to look at.

That bit kit from MCLS looks great. It's good quality with a fair variety. Just pick up specialty bits as you go.

That diablo blade is an excellent blade for the right applications. Blade type and tooth count should depend on what you're using it for. I have a 60 tooth blade (the exact one you linked to) for when I need nice, smooth cuts. Like with good plywood or trimming doors down. I also have a 24 tooth blade (also diablo) for when I'm cutting 2x6s, OSB, or other construction / renovation tasks. 

High tooth count means smooth cuts. Low tooth count means faster cuts, capacity to cut thicker stock, and less stress on the machine. Generally speaking.

Hope that helps, and feel free to ask more questions.

--Matt


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

haugerm said:


> The router description on Amazon says that it does have a 1/2 inch collet.
> 
> "The Skil 1830 combo-base router features a 1/2-inch collect capacity and comes with a 1/4-inch collet adapter for larger profile applications. The tool weighs 10.7 pounds."


You  may be right. I read that as it has the "capacity" to use a 1/2" collet, but comes with a 1/4" one. However, it may very well come with the 1/2" collet and have an adapter for 1/4". If that's the case then definitely get the 1/2" MLCS bits. I've bought other bits from them too and they have good quality and value.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

2 items on your list stand out to me as I have owned them, or prior versions and was NOT happy with them. The router is okay, but just barely. It lacks capacity and isn't very smooth. You would be FAR better off with a Hitachi KM12VC combo kit. I have 2 of them. Watch the sales as they do get around $100.00, albeit somewhat rarely these days... 

The other one is the Skil jig saw. I haven't replaced mine, but I sure hate it... I was aiming at the Hitachi as well for the Jig Saw...

The Circ saw is a pretty basic machine. If you are looking to save some bucks, Skil actually makes a decent circular saw. There is a good reason that folks use the term Skil Saw when they mean circular saw!


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

dbhost not sure if you are talking about my original list or the revised one I posted. Pretty sure you are talking about the original. With that said I think I'm pretty set with my new list.

Something I overlooked though was clamps. I know I'm going to use them with pretty much every project and I tried doing a little research on different brands and what not but didn't find much. They seem expensive for what they do. Can anyone recommend a good set of clamps for an average budget? In addition, do I want a set or just buy them individually? Am I ever going to use those really small clamps that come in a set? Thanks!


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Just saw your revised. Looks pretty good. I have a Skil circular saw with a Diablo blade on it. Nice rig for sure... Can't say about the Skil router. I expect it won't be as smooth to operate as the Hitachi, but then again it might. Don't get me wrong. The only thing I disliked about the Ryobi I had was the 1/4" collet. 1/2" is where I wanted to go... 

MLCS is hard to beat at any price point, so you got a real winner there. Great products, and the folks have been really nice too!


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## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

You can never have too many clamps. Every time you think you have enough clamps, you'll start on a project where you'll wish you had a few more.:smile: But don't worry, just collect them as you go. I personally use quick clamps, f clamps, and pipe clamps most often. But C clamps and spring clamps can also be pretty handy.

Home Depot has a nice Irwin clamp set for $25. It includes 4 quick clamps, 2 spring clamps, and 2 ratcheting hand clamps. You can't beat it for the money! Though I've never used the ratcheting clamps. 
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs..._mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D25X-_-202214073

Lowes sells nice Bessey pipe clamps. You buy the pipe seperately (also at Lowes) so you can choose how long to make the clamp.





Lowes also sells Bessey f clamps.





Of course, lots of companies make comparable clamps, those are just some I like. 

I just recently picked my first set of parallel clamps! I love them, but they're much more expensive, and not necessary for most people. Heck, they're not necessary for me. I just wanted 'em.

--Matt


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

You guys have been very helpful so far. So I found the drill that I bought a long time ago for household stuff and am wondering if it'll be satisfactory for woodworking. Its nothing special but if I don't need to spend money on a new drill I'd rather put it towards something else.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/DR260B.aspx

Thanks.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I think it's fine for now. Eventually you will want to pick up a cordless but you need other things.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Just been reading through this thread, did a nice job of research in a pretty short time. My only comment would be on the router, for another $10 go for this Skil router to get the variable speed:
http://www.skilshop.com/skil-1825-2...825,default,pd.html?start=2&cgid=skil-routers

Or, the Craftsman mentioned in one of the earlier posts is also a variable speed.
Good Luck:smile:


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## mveach (Jul 3, 2010)

You have received come good feedback. I will just add, You will be surprised what you can build with a circle saw, router, jig saw, drill and sander. It takes longer and requires planing and a little creativity. But you can do a lot and have a lot of fun. Then if you enjoy it, as the budget allows, add the bigger tools.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Skip the Skil/Ryobi/B&D router and 1/4" router bit scene, and stick with 1/2" shank. MLCS Woodworking offers a good 15 piece set for $40 shipped. I'd also look to a better router. The new Craftsman routers are affordable and are getting pretty good marks for hobbyists. Better yet, find a Hitachi M12VC, PC690, Makita, Ridgid, Bosch, DW, Milwaukee on sale or refurbished.


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

jschaben said:


> Just been reading through this thread, did a nice job of research in a pretty short time. My only comment would be on the router, for another $10 go for this Skil router to get the variable speed:
> http://www.skilshop.com/skil-1825-2...825,default,pd.html?start=2&cgid=skil-routers
> 
> Or, the Craftsman mentioned in one of the earlier posts is also a variable speed.
> Good Luck:smile:


Hey jschaben, the Skil router I picked out above does indeed have variable speed. I read that this was a somewhat necessary feature and have made sure that it has it. Plus I found it refurbished for $70 so I don't think I can beat that right now. Thanks!


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## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

knotscott said:


> Skip the Skil/Ryobi/B&D router and 1/4" router bit scene, and stick with 1/2" shank. MLCS Woodworking offers a good 15 piece set for $40 shipped. I'd also look to a better router. The new Craftsman routers are affordable and are getting pretty good marks for hobbyists. Better yet, find a Hitachi M12VC, PC690, Makita, Ridgid, Bosch, DW, Milwaukee on sale or refurbished.


The SKil I have listed can take a 1/2" bit and I am purchasing the 1/2" MLCS set. I'm sure I will upgrade to a better quality router eventually but I don't see a better router for a beginner for the price.



mveach said:


> You have received come good feedback. I will just add, You will be surprised what you can build with a circle saw, router, jig saw, drill and sander. It takes longer and requires planing and a little creativity. But you can do a lot and have a lot of fun. Then if you enjoy it, as the budget allows, add the bigger tools.


This is what I'm going to do for a while. The workbench I'm going to build uses minimal tools and I'm just going to find other projects that use those some power tools until I get a good crasp of how to properly use everything and I can afford to purchase the nice stationary machinery.


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## nblasa (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm just going to throw this out there...I've had terrible luck with reconditioned items. I have a buddy who has bought a few things "factory reconditioned" that have worked out ok, but every time that I have ever gone the less expensive route of buying reconditioned it has always bit me in the @$$ later and I have had to spend more as a result. I would personally buy a used and working item before I'd ever get something that has broke and been fixed up at the factory. I know a lot of you will disagree, but my luck is crap in this department so there's my two cents. Good luck


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## KelseyS (Aug 29, 2011)

unknowneinstein said:


> These will be some of the first tools I buy for my new shop. I've read the reviews and they all seem decent, just trying to get some other feedback.
> 
> Circular Saw:
> Video Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WMDBIE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> ...


Just a thought, I haven't read all the reviews so this may be rehashing someone else's thoughts. Saw blades for either the circular or table saw are pricy. I watch all the sales at the big box stores and on occasion you can get a 2fer, two blades in one package at a decent price. Being new and in need of experience you may tend to use that blade a bit too long. When you see smoke and it gets hard to push through your wood it is long past due to change blades. The sharpening in this area is .25 cents per tooth, if you watch the sales you can buy a new blade for that. I have a stack of blades that need sharpening but new blades are cheaper.


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## jdfisher2009 (Dec 28, 2011)

I noticed several posts saying wait and purchase a good router, that is an understatement!!! I bought a craftsman fixed base about 4 yrs ago when I got into woodworking. It's like a 3/4 HP basic model. It works fine as a small stock table router, which it came with but other than that it's not so adaptable. You might check out eBay, I recently got a porter cable plunge with variable speed for like $60 plus shipping, originally $200 new. Just be careful eBay has alot of junk too. Another thing I learned and agree with now is tune your skills with hand tools as much as possible, then work up to nicer power tools. I got a few nice hand planes and chisels, they are an absolute joy to work with once you get them honed and sharp. I look for value on alot of things but in the shop there are few things that are cheap that you will actually enjoy using and have success with. Another post said it's 90% skill and 10% tools, that's fair but if you have nice, quality tools it does save alot of frustration and possible injuries. Just my two cents and definately keep us updated on the workbench progress.


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