# farmhouse table



## ortho1121 (Mar 29, 2016)

Been watching YouTube videos on how to build a farmhouse style dining table. Most designs are boards joined for the top with breadboard end pieces and a trestle type base. In the comments section there are many comments that these designs will eventually fail and split due to changes in the wood over time. They describe fancy systems for the breadboards to prevent this from occurring. On the other hand the original posters state they have for the most part not had these issues. I ask your help with these questions.
1. How long does it take wood to acclimate and dry to prevent this issue? Would aged salvaged boards solve it?
2. Can I just leave off the breadboards since I don't mind the look without them?
3. I am a novice so trying to keep it simple
4. Most are made from pine or fir, do other woods react better? Don't mind spending a few extra dollars for a better product.

As always, thanks for any input. Don't want to make my scrap pile any higher than it is.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

A lot of pocket screws or biscuits to attach a breadboard end. This is where they get into trouble with wood movement. This explanation of a breadboard end is as good as it gets. http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/joinery/breadboard


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The breadboard ends keep the surface flat*

If you leave them off, you run the risk of having each board raise or lower, creating an uneven surface. Then if you want them on afterward, the issue of stain or finishing color rises as well as how to make them on the existing table.

There's 2 basic ways, loose tenons into mortises both on the table and the breadboard ends OR tenons milled on the table boards and a mortise on the end. Various combinations of stopped mortises or "a continuous" mortisie are possible. A "continuous" mortise is my choice, since it's faster and easier, but it stops short of going right to the very ends, so it's not visible.

Wood movement across the width is permitted because you only glue, dowel or fasten the center board rigidly, all other boards have slots or elongated holes and are NOT glued to allow for movement. The mortise restrains the board end from shifting up or down, but NOT side to side.

It's actually a simple "theory" but requires some precise craftsmanship.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Beware of plans or videos on how to build a "Farmhouse Table", this has become the default recipe for disaster, all too often we hear tales of woe from those that followed such plans unaware that the authors have no knowledge of wood movement or proper joinery.

Read some books on basic woodworking so you get to understand how wood behaves and the best ways to put it together, only then can you discern if you should trust free plans or anything on YouTube.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Hello Ortho1121,



Ortho1121 said:


> Been watching YouTube videos on how to build a farmhouse style dining table.


  Ooops...First mistake...haha... :no: :laugh2:



Ortho1121 said:


> Most designs are boards joined for the top with breadboard end pieces and a trestle type base.


Yes...That is how most of them are designed and assembled...When done properly and following the original methods that have built countless ones over the centuries...Usually out of green unseasoned wood...!!



Ortho1121 said:


> In the comments section there are many comments that these designs will eventually fail and split due to changes in the wood over time.


Only if built improperly and/or out of wood not well selected and worked...




Ortho1121 said:


> They describe fancy systems for the breadboards to prevent this from occurring. On the other hand the original posters state they have for the most part not had these issues. I ask your help with these questions.
> 1. How long does it take wood to acclimate and dry to prevent this issue? Would aged salvaged boards solve it?
> 2. Can I just leave off the breadboards since I don't mind the look without them?
> 3. I am a novice so trying to keep it simple
> 4. Most are made from pine or fir, do other woods react better? Don't mind spending a few extra dollars for a better product.


First, I seldom trust fully what I see on Youtube unless I know the person (and their work) first hand...Much of it is DIYers following other DIYers trying to reinvent all kinds of wheels and misapplied methods...

1. Wood for Farm Tables (aka Harvest Tables) do not..."have to"...to be of "dry wood." It does have to acclimate for a few weeks at least if of modern "Kiln Dried wood" and/or proper traditional wood selection and techniques are applied to the design and construction of the table...Techniques not really easily transcribe to full extent on a single post (nor by just watching a few videos on Youtube....without some pretty extensive background first on woodworking methods...) 

2. Some designs for these tables do not have Breadboarding, but tend to be more rustic in nature. Klinchboarding methods is just one example...Yet again, proper design, wood selection and technique must be followed to have long term success....

3. These are very simple tables and with some patients, reading, finding a class someplace to perhaps take in person, you will acquire the requisite skills to pull one of these off. 

A very rustic one isn't too terribly difficult to achieve...even with very limited hand tools...

4. Any wood can be used for these tables and none (per se) is better than others. With that said, for a beginner, a less reactive species like White Pine is an excellent choice, and perhaps why many are made of them...as well as larger Pine Slabs were ubiquitous in times gone by...

Hope that helps for now...This type of table (in all seriousness) are not that difficult to achieve if not straying to fare from the traditional systems that designed, built and used them...


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

Check the library for woodworking books or the used book stores. I have bought some great books for just a few bucks- cheaper than full price.


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## IowaDave (May 21, 2015)

*Farmhouse table build*

Interesting original question...as I am currently working with my daughter-in-law now to make a farmhouse table from plans she found on the internet. When I saw the breadboard ends I immediately was skeptical about them holding up due to wood movement, etc. For base material, we are using dimensional cedar lumber, 2" x 6"s for the top. 

I did keep the store bought lumber in the shop for a few weeks to hopefully let it dry/balance a little more and then we trimmed the edges and glued them together and then had it sanded down to a nice surface. I think there are 7 trimmed down 2" x 6"s at this point, the overall width is right at 36".

When we attached the breadboards I was going to mortise the breadboard and tenon the table top and then put 2 or 3 pocket holed screws in the center of the table top, on the hidden, under side. If I have a 36" width and put say, 2 screws in the center so there is a solid hold, but then leave about 15" on either side without screws, would that work in the opinion of the experts here? 

My thought process was by "anchoring" the center of the table top only, I would be allowing for unrestricted movement across the rest of the table top...with it being hidden essentially by the unglued mortise & tenon joint. I would be curious to see if others here think that will be OK. TIA


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

IowaDave said:


> Interesting original question...as I am currently working with my daughter-in-law now to make a farmhouse table from plans she found on the internet. When I saw the breadboard ends I immediately was skeptical about them holding up due to wood movement, etc. For base material, we are using dimensional cedar lumber, 2" x 6"s for the top.
> 
> I did keep the store bought lumber in the shop for a few weeks to hopefully let it dry/balance a little more and then we trimmed the edges and glued them together and then had it sanded down to a nice surface. I think there are 7 trimmed down 2" x 6"s at this point, the overall width is right at 36".
> 
> ...


I would do a proper breadboard end with at least three anchor points, fixed center and slotted ones at each end that will allow for sideways expansion of the top but will hold it tight to the end of the table top. Nothing worse than having a crack open up to collect crumbs. etc.
http://sawdustmaking.com/Breadboard/breadboard.htm


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## ortho1121 (Mar 29, 2016)

From what I am hearing in a nice way is that I should learn to be a woodworker, and I agree. My question out of ignorance is that I have a similar table at home from Restoration Hardware that has a board top and breadboard end. It seems firmly attached along the entire length and having had it for a few years I have never noticed any irregularity at the edge from expansion/contraction of the long boards. Is this due to the type of construction, dryness or age of the wood, etc.?


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

ortho1121 said:


> From what I am hearing in a nice way is that I should learn to be a woodworker, and I agree. My question out of ignorance is that I have a similar table at home from Restoration Hardware that has a board top and breadboard end. It seems firmly attached along the entire length and having had it for a few years I have never noticed any irregularity at the edge from expansion/contraction of the long boards. Is this due to the type of construction, dryness or age of the wood, etc.?



Tables made with breadboard ends will last for generations if done correctly. If made incorrectly the table will soon develop problems. Breadboard ends must be attached to allow for wood movement. All woods move with changes in humidity. I have a Farmhouse table or harvest table shown in my photos that is 13 years old now and no problems. Made of Red Oak this was my first effort in making a breadboard end.


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## ortho1121 (Mar 29, 2016)

I understand breadboards must be made properly and that they will hold up over time, but my question is why does my Restoration Hardware table show absolutely no signs of any movement at the juncture of the top and breadboard along the edge? It appears to have wooden pins through the tenons from examining the top. People have posted pictures of their tables at different seasons and they show the visible shift the wood is taking. How does Restoration Hardware build these things to not show that phenomenon?


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

ortho1121 said:


> I understand breadboards must be made properly and that they will hold up over time, but my question is why does my Restoration Hardware table show absolutely no signs of any movement at the juncture of the top and breadboard along the edge? It appears to have wooden pins through the tenons from examining the top. People have posted pictures of their tables at different seasons and they show the visible shift the wood is taking. How does Restoration Hardware build these things to not show that phenomenon?


The simple answer is the table was constructed correctly by Restoration Hardware. 
Restoration Hardware buys pieces from around the world but the pieces are either selected and approved or designed my R H. 
As I stated above, if the breadboard ends are installed correctly they will be trouble free. 
Just because you see wooden pins (square or round) does not mean it wasn't built right. The mortises or holes for the pins in the outside edges were designed to allow for wood movement (with an elongated mortise). You can't see it because it's in the boards that slip into the breadboards (the Tenon).


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

If you don't see movement, you are lucky, the stars have aligned, the table boards suffer little seasonal expansion, the table is located in an environment with little seasonal variation, any of these could be factors. It is impossible to build a top with solid wood with the grain running both ways and guarantee there will be no seasonal movement, so better to prepare for it than not.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*a continuous mortise question*



woodnthings said:


> If you leave them off, you run the risk of having each board raise or lower, creating an uneven surface. Then if you want them on afterward, the issue of stain or finishing color rises as well as how to make them on the existing table.
> 
> There's 2 basic ways, loose tenons into mortises both on the table and the breadboard ends OR tenons milled on the table boards and a mortise on the end. Various combinations of stopped mortises or "a continuous" mortise are possible. A "continuous" mortise is my choice, since it's faster and easier, but it stops short of going right to the very ends, so it's not visible.
> 
> ...


I was asked via PM how to make a continuous mortise, so rather than respond back, I thought others would benefit in a reply here.
I use a plunge router in a "centering jig" to make mortises. The centering jig does exactly that, keeps the router in the center of the workpiece.
You can buy a base plate with 2 pins which locate it against the sides of the wood when you rotate the router body. It relies on keeping the router twisted at all times, which I didn't care for. Mine slides along in full contact with no "wiggle room".

A continuous or stopped mortise is made using the jig, the only difference is the mortise stops and starts when the tenons are located. The stopped mortise accepts the tenons individually where the center one is pinned tightly and the outer ones have elongated holes to allow for wood movement.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> I was asked via PM how to make a continuous mortise, so rather than respond back, I thought others would benefit in a reply here.
> I use a plunge router in a "centering jig" to make mortises. The centering jig does exactly that, keeps the router in the center of the workpiece.
> You can buy a base plate with 2 pind which locate it against the sides of the wood when you twist it. It relies on keeping the router twisted at all times, which I didn't care for. Mine slides along in full contact with no "wiggle room".
> 
> A continuous or stopped mortise is made using the jig, the only difference is the mortise stops and starts when the tenons are located. The stopped mortise accepts the tenons individually where the center one is pinned tightly and the outer ones have elongated holes to allow for wood movement.



Woodnthings 
You mention a continuous mortise above. Am I correct that this is also called an open mortise?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Heck, I donno?*



Toolman50 said:


> Woodnthings
> You mention a continuous mortise above. Am I correct that this is also called an open mortise?


I've never heard that reference, but it may be so...?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

there are many factors that will contribute to the wood movement of the table slab. how the wood was cut, how dry it is, how it is finished, the ambient air conditions where it lives, etc...


solid wood will respond to seasonal changes, depending on the factors above. 


breadboards, _even when correctly installed_, can have an uneven alignment on the ends, as the table width contracts and expands to a greater degree than the breadboard. I am not a fan for this reason and don't use them. research methods to anchor the table to the aprons so the table can move.


here in pa we experience very high summer humidity and very low winter humidity. so our seasonal e&c is real! other climate regions, or in environmentally controlled apartments, maybe not so much.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Breadboard ends*

This is an illustration of a continuous mortise and tenon:
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/joinery/breadboard/









From lumberjocks:









I see no advantage in starting and stopping the tenons like these:
https://www.furnituremaking.us/bookcases-tables/designing-traditional-breadboard-ends.html


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

The advantage to stopping and starting the tendons is a narrower groove in most of the breadboard end making it stronger so to have less tendency to split than a continuous deep groove, probably not a deal breaker either way.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> This is an illustration of a continuous mortise and tenon:
> http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/joinery/breadboard/
> 
> 
> ...



This is the way I made the table I show in my photos. As I've said, I built it 14 years ago and it's not had a problem. I used the breadboard technique Woodnthings shows. 
:thumbsup:


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