# Do I need a jointer? Topic beat to death, I know



## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

OK so I have been keeping my eye out for a jointer for a decent price but i've started questioning if I even need one? I have a decent tablesaw and an OK thickness planer. I recently cleaned up some old rough cut oak. I cut out the really twisted parts and then ran them through the thickness planer. If the peice was cupped I put the cup on the bottom so it wouldnt rock back and fouth. If it was twisted i placed the flattest part on the bottom and ran it through taking a little off at a time and eventualy got the twists and cups out. The peices were 4ft in length.

I havent completed it yet but I'm building a 4ft tablesaw sled to straight line rip the peices. Then I'll run them through the tablesaw again to rip the other edge. I dont plan on planing my own new lumber as I figure the hardwood store can do a better job since they have better equipment. Its about 80 cents a board foot to plane each side and straight line rip. After I found out how long it takes to plane myself, I think the extra cost is worth the time savings.


So how much benefit is a jointer going to add to my shop?

David


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## edp (May 25, 2007)

I sold my jointers a long time ago but I wouldn't last a day without my thickness planers. Simple as that.

Oh.....and you do not need a sled to straightline rip. All you need is a piece of plywood about 6" wide, a couple of screws and a good saw blade on your table saw.


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm surprised how much I use mine. I put one in my shop plans, and bought one, simply because I kept going back to the old square board principle of joint-plane-rip then cross-cut to length. Joint being the first part of that equation, I had to have one to practice good workmanship. 

Well, I can tell you I'm glad I did. Every time I tell myself "oh I'll just rip that down another 1/16th..." its off to the jointer. I'm glad I have one.

smitty


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I keep trying to talk myself into one, but with a planer sled, and a good blade in the TS, I just don't need one. Not that it wouldn't make things somewhat easier. So I guess the question is...

Do you need a jointer? You've got a planer and have been getting by without one, so no, you don't NEED a jointer.

Do you want a jointer? That's up to you. I still can't talk myself into pulling the trigger.


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

smitty1967 said:


> I'm surprised how much I use mine. I put one in my shop plans, and bought one, simply because I kept going back to the old square board principle of joint-plane-rip then cross-cut to length. Joint being the first part of that equation, I had to have one to practice good workmanship.
> 
> Well, I can tell you I'm glad I did. Every time I tell myself "oh I'll just rip that down another 1/16th..." its off to the jointer. I'm glad I have one.
> 
> smitty


That's a good point. I didn't think about it being helpful to quickly perform small rips. I was looking at a dust collector to spare my shopvac and they guy had a 6 inch delta jointer too for $100. I figured I could get a better deal if I bought both but I don't know if its even worth the money for me.


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

edp said:


> I sold my jointers a long time ago but I wouldn't last a day without my thickness planers. Simple as that.
> 
> Oh.....and you do not need a sled to straightline rip. All you need is a piece of plywood about 6" wide, a couple of screws and a good saw blade on your table saw.



I thought about just using a piece of plywood but I wanted something nice I guess that I would keep around for a while. I am building some clamps into it as well. I also wanted something for ripping small pieces to save cutting off my fingers. Not saying I couldn't do all that with a piece of plywood. Its an excuse to build something too.


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## red (Sep 30, 2008)

It’s a personal choice. I would not have a shop without one. But that’s me. For $100, it would be in the back of my truck as we speak. Red


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

edp said:


> I sold my jointers a long time ago but I wouldn't last a day without my thickness planers. Simple as that.
> 
> Oh.....and you do not need a sled to straightline rip. All you need is a piece of plywood about 6" wide, a couple of screws and a good saw blade on your table saw.


I am just the opposite. I have had a Craftsman 6 1/8 jointer/planer for many years. Would not be without it. Just recently bought a thickness planer. Like it, but could like without it.

In reality only you can make a decision like which tool is best for you. It all depends upon what type of work you do and what type of lumber you buy. 

G

G


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

GeorgeC said:


> In reality only you can make a decision like which tool is best for you. It all depends upon what type of work you do and what type of lumber you buy.
> 
> G
> 
> G



That is my point, I had plans to start purchasing rough cut lumber to save money but I'm starting to lean towards purchasing it already ripped and planed to save time. So I was looking to you all to see if there was some other magical use that would make it worth it for me.


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## Bob Vaughan (Oct 29, 2008)

A jointer's use is primarily to make lumber flat on one side and straight on one edge. The planer makes the lumber parallel and the table saw rips parallel to the jointed edge.

If you want the freedom and also the responsibility to make your lumber as flat and as straight as it can be, then the jointer is necessary.

Hiring others to do the rough end work for you is risky if you're building a chest of drawers or other furniture projects that require flat and straight lumber for good fitting components. A project like a coffee table or kitchen table can be made from warpy and twisted lumber if you've got good clamps and scrub things smooth with a portable belt sander.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

You don't _need_ a jointer any more than you need any of the tools in your shop....some wood and the desire to make something are the real key ingredients, with those covered you'll find a way. 

With that said, the jointer is THE best tool for flattening a face and straightening an adjacent edge to it, and is a perfect compliment to a planer. With the help of a planer sled, you can coax a planer into doing some flattening for you, and there are other methods for edge jointing with a router or TS, but none are as efficient or effective as the jointer ata what it does best. 

If I could only have a planer or a jointer but not both, I'd pick the planer, but I use my jointer an awful lot and would be lost without it. With a jointer I'm about 20 seconds from flattening a face, and another 20 from straightening an adjacent edge, then I'm ready for the planer and the TS


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

I'll brew on it some more. I don't have a reason to buy one right now, I just saw what looked like a good deal so I figured I'd pick one up and start learning so I'd have it when I needed it. I'm gonna work with what I have for a now.


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

I'd agree with Bob Vaughan. I don't know of anyone around here to do the face jointing of wood for me. Sure, you can get it planed at most yards, but not often face jointed. That means if the wood has some cup or twist or wind or bow, it will still have it after planed. And sometimes, as I am sure ALL of us have experienced, as you cut a piece out of a nominally straight or flat board, the smaller piece is NOT flat or straight. What do you do then, go back to the fellow and have it jointed? Also when a board is not flat, often the best method of salvaging that board is first to cut it into the approximate lenghts that you are going to use in the finished piece, THEN joint and plane it. By having shorter lengths of wood, you throw away lots less in the flattening process. It would seem difficult to buy the wood, take it home and cut to size, then go back and have someone joint an edge? I also seem to find that often some of the nicest figured wood is not so flat. Remember others often reject some boards that are not flat for the same reason. Most lumberyards have special customers that are called when a shipment of a particular type of wood arrives. They come in when the bundle is broken and pick thru the stack and often get the nicest pieces. 
I use my jointers a lot. I have a 12" that I use for face jointing and a smaller 6" that I use for smaller pieces, mostly edge jointing. If you are mostly using sheetgoods, sure you can get away without a jointer, but if you are using much solid wood and building anything where fit is important, I suspect that you will find it hard to succeed without a jointer. 
good luck
Paul


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

Paul K said:


> I'd agree with Bob Vaughan. I don't know of anyone around here to do the face jointing of wood for me. Sure, you can get it planed at most yards, but not often face jointed. That means if the wood has some cup or twist or wind or bow, it will still have it after planed. And sometimes, as I am sure ALL of us have experienced, as you cut a piece out of a nominally straight or flat board, the smaller piece is NOT flat or straight. What do you do then, go back to the fellow and have it jointed? Also when a board is not flat, often the best method of salvaging that board is first to cut it into the approximate lenghts that you are going to use in the finished piece, THEN joint and plane it. By having shorter lengths of wood, you throw away lots less in the flattening process. It would seem difficult to buy the wood, take it home and cut to size, then go back and have someone joint an edge? I also seem to find that often some of the nicest figured wood is not so flat. Remember others often reject some boards that are not flat for the same reason. Most lumberyards have special customers that are called when a shipment of a particular type of wood arrives. They come in when the bundle is broken and pick thru the stack and often get the nicest pieces.
> I use my jointers a lot. I have a 12" that I use for face jointing and a smaller 6" that I use for smaller pieces, mostly edge jointing. If you are mostly using sheetgoods, sure you can get away without a jointer, but if you are using much solid wood and building anything where fit is important, I suspect that you will find it hard to succeed without a jointer.
> good luck
> Paul


 
I see what you are saying. I was under the impression that the lumber would not be cupped or twisted after they planed and ripped it. I specicially asked them but they may not have understood my question. I have never bought lumber from an actuall yard. Just home depot. HD's wood sucks and I was hoping to get some better quality. On this bookcase I just finished, I had to clamp each shelf between two peices of hardwood just to get them into the dados.

I havent done much with sheet goods with the exception of flat panels. My next project is going to require me to make 6 raised panels 18 inches wide and 3 feet tall. I suppose having well jointed lumber is going to crucial to a good end result.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

Ask you have already heard, If you are going to work with anything beyond plywood or any sheetgoods a jointer is a must.
Start with you can buy ruff or skip planed lumber at half the price of lumberyard material, MAKE it flat and anyway YOU want. Raised panels are all but impossible without straight,flat lumber that is the SAME thickness. With jointer you can do this with ease. I actually dimension my face frame to finish size with my jointer. I rip 1/8 oversize, take 2 1/32 passes on each edge with jointer and done.


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

Update… I finished my sled. I installed some of those clamps like on a drill press. The kind with a lever that you push down to clamp. It works well and I can load planks and rip them quickly. 

Because the lumber was not PERFECT, the rips weren’t square at first. I was able to get them better with some practice and applying counter pressure in the correct places. 

I can definitely see that if I had run this through a jointer first that it would have made the job easier and would yield a better result.

I was able to get a panel glued up but not without the help of some strategically placed clamps.

There is much debate over the value of a jointer and I am sure that there are advanced techniques used by those who choose not to own one but from my little experience, I think it would be a good purchase.

Thanks

David


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

*A lot depends on your lumber supplier.*

When I had a large commercial shop I had a joiner and it was so rarely used I sold it after it just sat in a corner for 2 years. I had a good lumber supplier (Paxton Lumber Co) and bought all of my boards S2S and straight line ripped. My boards were very flat 99% of the time. Even though I had a planer, it was still more cost effective to buy my lumber already planed. A good tablesaw and a good blade will give you a nice edge for joining. 
I currently build furniture in a new shop I am slowly putting together. A joiner is not even on my list. I am fortunate to have a quality lumber supplier about an hour away. I have them do all of the planing. In the past, I only used a planer for final planing after glue up. A planer is now on my priority list. Right now my shop is mostly a hobby with some commission work. Not enough to build up a giant pile that would eventuslly have to be planed the same thickness for a different project. All my scraps now end up as bowls and plates.


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

I agree, I'm going to go an purchase some material to practice on and have them plane and rip it. It may be good enough.

My mother has a ton of old rough cut oak that isnt in the best shape. This is the material I am working with right now and I think I will need a jointer if I want to get this material perfect. I'm in no hurry, just in learning mode.


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## Howard Ferstler (Sep 27, 2007)

djonesax said:


> OK so I have been keeping my eye out for a jointer for a decent price but i've started questioning if I even need one? I have a decent tablesaw and an OK thickness planer. I recently cleaned up some old rough cut oak. I cut out the really twisted parts and then ran them through the thickness planer. If the peice was cupped I put the cup on the bottom so it wouldnt rock back and fouth. If it was twisted i placed the flattest part on the bottom and ran it through taking a little off at a time and eventualy got the twists and cups out. The peices were 4ft in length.
> 
> I havent completed it yet but I'm building a 4ft tablesaw sled to straight line rip the peices. Then I'll run them through the tablesaw again to rip the other edge. I dont plan on planing my own new lumber as I figure the hardwood store can do a better job since they have better equipment. Its about 80 cents a board foot to plane each side and straight line rip. After I found out how long it takes to plane myself, I think the extra cost is worth the time savings.
> 
> ...


If you plan on edge joining (gluing, with biscuits or whatever) several boards together to make one wider board you need a jointer to true up the edges for a clean look.

Howard Ferstler


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## Plane Chatter (Nov 15, 2008)

I start with rough cut wood, but even so, when I leave a dressed board for very long I often find it's changed shape. I use my jointer/planer on an edge and on a face. Running a board that's not flat through my thickness planer is going to give me a board with a constant thickness, but not a flat board. Even trying to rip a glue line on a TS is not going to work well if the board surface on the table is not flat. Both is best in my opinion.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

Plane chatter: hmmmmmmmmmm interesting call sign:yes:


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## clampman (Oct 20, 2006)

I cannot imagine any cabinet shop staying in business without at least one jointer, for all the reasons in previous posts. 

No matter how straight and flat a 10" wide board is now, if you rip it in half, each half will no longer be straight anymore. How bad it is crooked will vary tremendously from nearly nothing to un-usable as is.

It would be worth paying 100 bucks for a jointer if the only job you were ever going to do was make and fit flush doors for one kitchen.

Jointers are totally useless, however, if the in and out-feed beds are not parallel and the knives not sharp and set properly. Adjusting the outfeed bed to the infeed can be done, if necessary, with chunks of feeler gauges. 

To set the knives, the best video I've ever seen on the subject was made by Bob Vaughan who posted earlier. 

It is a free, must see, for anyone who dreads knife changing day. I posted a link somewhere here a long time ago and will hunt for it now. 

Found it and it's still working.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2983839096587014177&hl=en

It you buy it, tune it up, and decide you don't want it you can always re-sell it - especially if it is making crooked boards straight and not the reverse like many of the ones I have seen kicking around jobs.

Cheers,
Jim


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## djonesax (Mar 3, 2008)

I have used my newly acquired rigid 6" jointer on a few project now. First was a set of cutting boards, then speaker stands, and then a cabinet. I attempted to use my table saw at first but was unsuccessful at making cuts square and straight enough to create the perfect hard to find seams that a jointer can produce. not to say that this cant be done, but I thought I would be better off just buying a jointer. So I bought one and dont think I could live with out it at this point. My only regret is that I bought a 6" and didnt jump up to the 8" like everyone said. The 6" is great but having the extra table length of the 8" jointer would come in handy when jointing larger peices. 

I have to agree with eveyone that said that a jointer and planer together are a wonderful set of tools to have. I cant see having one with out the other after using them both together.

David


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