# What angle for iron on Stanley #4?



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

I'm finally attempting to use my hand tools, and the one I dismembered to clean I decided to sharpen the iron on while putting it back together. I had thought I'd just "guess" the angle I was supposed to sharpen it to based on what was already there. I understood that 25 and 30 are two common angles for the iron to be sharpened to, but after some trial and error, I determined that the angle currently on the iron is neither of those. So I'm just going to grind the iron down to the correct angle and start from scratch. Sooo...can someone direct me to a place that indicates what angle the sharp end of the iron should have for an old Stanley #4?


----------



## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

The primary (factory) bevel on my plane irons is 25 degrees. I hone a secondary bevel of 5 degrees, for an effective angle of 30 degrees. This works for me, but highly figured woods might require a higher pitch.


----------



## MarcR (Nov 28, 2010)

All of the plane irons I have purchased and the standard since I can remember has is a primary grind of 25 degrees. I would recommend use a honing guide on plane irons and set the secondary bevel @ 30 degrees and if you wish 2 degree micro bevel just adds a little for hardwoods. This set up has worked well in all of may bench planes so far. Make sure you spend time flattening the back of the plane iron and the sole of the plane otherwise the performance may be compromised.


----------



## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Ashamed to say this,but I've never measured or protracted one.And not becasue of lack of equip.We have measureing and grinding equip out the wazoo.Also have an arsenal of planes.Alot of which started with grand-dad...then dad used 'M for 60+ years then I STOLE them(thats right!)and have been using and caring for them ever since.............Having "multiples" of sizes,I know by looking at angle of repose what this iron is suited for THIS.IOWs I don't need to calculate the angle & curve to blade.Can tell by looking and grinding this #4 is gonna be used on the 'heavier" end of planing chores.But THIS #4 is gonna be used to very lightly kiss this edge and grind accordingly.

So,just like theres plenty to learn and experiment with in exactly how you hold/use a plane.Theres some latitude in grinding angle.Just don't burn-m and be very mindful of the curve of blade.I'd say only around 10% of the time do we ever grind them straight,theres always at least a hint of curve.And the hone angle plays a role in the area of wood hardness.BW


Edit to add.....duh,will go and measure a few today


----------



## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Checked 4,# 4's with a Brown& Sharpe combination/bevel sq.And they were...29*....28*....and two @ 25*.Note that the way these were measured the 25's are more acute than the others.All were ground on an 8" wheel.This wheel diam. is somewhat important,in that the larger the radius of grind the more shallow the hollow part is WRT grind.Imagine an 8" wheel vs oh say a 3" wheel.The 3 would produce much more "hollow" depth.All other things being equal,I could probably tell the diff going from an 8 to a 5.Outside that,probably no(8vs10;5vs3)t?Also the finish left by grinding wheel has bearing on this whole subject but you'd be getting into wheel construction and grading.........a VERY deep discussion.One that I'm only barely conversant on.Its the rate of material removal devided by grit taken to the umpteenth power or some such?

The curves to blades were all real close to each other.The secondary bevels or honed part varies with how many times that particular iron has been sharpened.

Don't use the #4's NEARLY as much as a #3.....its a weight thing,will always grab the smallest plane that'll get the job done.Very Best of luck,BW


----------



## AnselmFraser (Oct 7, 2010)

The angle does not really matter, what ever works for the indivigual woodworker.Lots of practice on sharpening is what you need.Little and often is what we say.
Good luck/practice.
Anselm.


----------



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Well, since I seem to be starting from scratch as regards to the edge, I thought I'd go for whatever the default angle is. Hopefully I'll learn as I go that angle makes a difference, and why.

There are some decent nicks on the iron too so it's worth redoing. I don't have a grinding wheel though, only a disc/belt sander. Is that a worthwhile way to do it? I figured I'd put the iron in the sharpening guide and then just hold it on the belt and let it do the rough shaping for me to start. I know I have to avoid a lot of heat, so it'd be a little off at a time.

I also tried flattening one of my #4's, and after a while with some heavy grit, I still wasn't making much progress. I also wondered if using the belt sander for flattening the bottom of the plane was a good idea for a start, then move to finer grain on my float glass for cleanup.


----------



## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

See if this works

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/need-granite-surface-plate-different-size-cheap-214752/


WAY more info than you need.Carefully read all 4 pages.

In my pea brain its the whole chicken and the egg thing.IOWs....IMO......measuring tools come before the equip necessary to change what needs to be measured.Another way to say it is,if you have no way to check/measure your work or progress how do you know if its correct?


----------



## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

beelzerob said:


> Well, since I seem to be starting from scratch as regards to the edge, I thought I'd go for whatever the default angle is. Hopefully I'll learn as I go that angle makes a difference, and why.
> 
> There are some decent nicks on the iron too so it's worth redoing. I don't have a grinding wheel though, only a disc/belt sander. Is that a worthwhile way to do it? I figured I'd put the iron in the sharpening guide and then just hold it on the belt and let it do the rough shaping for me to start. I know I have to avoid a lot of heat, so it'd be a little off at a time.
> I've never tried a disc/belt sander on a plane iron or chisel (I've ground some lawn tools by placing my belt sander on its back.), but if you can get a consistent bevel of 25 degrees, there shouldn't be a problem. I'd put the sander on a slower speed and be sure to not get the steel too hot.
> ...


I would not try to flatten the sole of a plane on a belt sander. I'm sure some have done it, but I'm not that good. I think it would be difficult. I'd wait until I got my plane iron sharpened and see how well the plane works as is. The sole doesn't have to be perfectly flat, but since it's a smooth plane you do want it almost perfectly flat to get the really fine consistent shavings of .001 to .003 thickness. The key areas are the perimeter of the plane and the area in front of the mouth. A dip behind the mouth doesn't affect anything as long as the perimeter is flat. 

I've spent a lot of time flattening soles with 320g wet dry sand paper. Then polish with a sequence up to around 1200g or 1500g. You need a flat surface for this. I've used both melamine (paper glued to melamine with 3m spray adhesive) and a granite stone (Woodcraft). Others have use MDF or flat glass. I check the surface with a straight edge before starting. 

I have a Stanley #7 that's 21" long and it was badly out of flat in the wrong places. I had no intention of trying to hand flatten that plane. I checked around and found a machine shop that agreed to grind it for $40. It came out just a little over .001 out of flat and does a great job.

Unfortunately, for me, flattening plane irons and especially plane soles are by far the most unpleasant things about using planes.


----------



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

One of the tougher aspects of this is just that I don't have any sheets of sandpaper longer than nominal size (8X11 or whatever it is). So it's not a lot of room to run back and forth.

I'll concentrate on getting the iron good and then putting it back together and see how it goes before trying too hard on the plane sole.


----------



## H. A. S. (Sep 23, 2010)

beelzerob said:


> One of the tougher aspects of this is just that I don't have any sheets of sandpaper longer than nominal size (8X11 or whatever it is). So it's not a lot of room to run back and forth.
> 
> I'll concentrate on getting the iron good and then putting it back together and see how it goes before trying too hard on the plane sole.


As long as you don't 'lose' your angle, nothing wrong using short strokes. Just use clean areas of the paper, if you want to speed up the process.

Main thing to a sharp plane is keeping the back flat, the rest is easy.

A belt sander is not going to get you a perfectly flat angle/surface.


----------



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Heh..ya, I know there's no substitute for the long laborous work of sharpening the iron. I just want to use the belt sander to get me into the ballpark of angle and remove the nicks, and then I can go to work with the small squares of increasing sand paper grit.


----------



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Ok, I know it was suggested not to, but after about 15 minutes of furiously working on the sole of the plane, and seeing no noticeable progress, I decided I had nothing to lose and went to the belt sander. There were some serious problems on the bottom of that plane, I have no idea how they got there, but there were holes, indents, and valleys.

I was very pleased with the progress I made via the belt sander. It is almost starting to look like an actual plane sole now. Once I get all of the imperfections out, I'll go back to the sand paper and hand method, but there was just too much rough work to be done for me to try by hand.


----------

