# Chop Saw vs. Table Saw for a newbie



## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

OK, I hope you don't mind one more newbie looking for help....

I've been torturing over what piece of equipment to purchase. I need help (or therapy....).

I am a beginner. Just completed one big project which I loved doing, and am now preparing for my next project which I believe will be a picnic table.

I own a router and a drill. I've been going to my friend's house for sawing. I've used his table saw and his chop saw.

I had been planning to buy a good table saw. He is pushing me to save $ and go for the chop saw and a circular saw for ripping. His feeling is that the chop saw is so much easier to use. He has a 12" sliding chop saw - a Bosch - which is a fine machine. I do feel very comfortable with the chop saw.

I had been planning on getting the table saw as I can use that for ripping and crosscutting. His view was that the table saw is a pain for crosscutting and that the chop saw made life so much easier. Given my next project will involve mostly crosscuts the chop saw is the way to go.

My dilemma - I don't want to get a chop saw, then the table saw, and find out I don't need the chop saw. I'd rather just get the table saw as that gives me a lot more versatility for the future, assuming this is a hobby I am going to stick with.

I assume that once I get comfortable with the table saw, it will be just as comfortable for cross cuts as the chop saw, assuming I have the right miter gauge? Assuming so I'd just go for the table saw now. The chop saw is attractive now as I find it much less intimidating, and it would save $.

I don't want to step into controversy! I would though appreciate hearing your view as your opinion would help to clarify my own thinking. 

Thank you!

Eric


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

A table saw is more versatile. You can make more cuts on a TS....rips, x-cuts, miters, dado, grooves, coves, etc. A good TS is also inherently more robust, which gives it an advantage in accuracy. Everyone is different, but my CMS collects dust unless I'm cutting really long boards. I use my TS for > 95% of my cuts.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

I think you're on the right track, go with the table saw first. Longer boards can be problematic on a table saw but a shop made crosscut sled will alleviate a lot of that. Thing that occurs to me is: you can cross cut on a table saw but you can't rip with a chop saw.:yes:


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

It would be hard to crosscut a big board. For example a 12ft 2x12. It big and heavy. The table top on both saws are too small for 1 person to cut say a 7 in piece off the end. It's too hard to hold up the long end of the board. 

But in my opinion it would be easier to build supporting tables for the chop saw and they would take up less room. 
If you got the chop saw you couldn't cut sheet goods like plywood. You would have to get a circular saw too. I find it harder to rip boards on my table saw than circular saw but I don't have the best blades either. My circular saw cuts much faster and I feel it's safer. 

Unless your planning on doing projects that need perfect accuracy and cuts that wood be needed to cut on a table saw. I would get the chip saw and circular saw. Plus you get 2 new tools instead of 1.


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

jschaben said:


> I think you're on the right track, go with the table saw first. Longer boards can be problematic on a table saw but a shop made crosscut sled will alleviate a lot of that. Thing that occurs to me is: you can cross cut on a table saw but you can't rip with a chop saw.:yes:


Thanks! 

A quick follow-up....

With a 12" sliding chop saw, can I rip a board that is 12 inches long with one cut, and cut a 24" board by cutting once and flipping? Or is ripping not good to do on a chop saw under any circumstance?

Thank you!


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

jschaben said:


> I think you're on the right track, go with the table saw first. Longer boards can be problematic on a table saw but a shop made crosscut sled will alleviate a lot of that. Thing that occurs to me is: you can cross cut on a table saw but you can't rip with a chop saw.:yes:


That is a good point. Table saw is more versatile. It will do the jobs of both other saws.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

For picnic tables though....a chop saw would be a better option. Have you considered the jack of all trades....a radial arm saw?


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> For picnic tables though....a chop saw would be a better option. Have you considered the jack of all trades....a radial arm saw?


Why would the table saw be not as good for the picnic table? Because the boards are longer and more easily handled on a chop saw?

If it matters I would be getting a decent industrial table saw, probably with 36" rails. Would that make it any easier for the picnic table?

I have looked at the RAS but from what I read - not sure of the source - it is a bit less accurate and a bit more dangerous for cross cuts. I am a newbie, working with my kids on projects, and willing to trade $ for a safer device. So based on that I figured I'd go table saw rather then RAS. Am I off base?

Thanks!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Table saws will be difficult to cross cut long boards, not that it can't be done, just that it can't be done as easy. Whats your budget? Radial arm saws are fine for cross cuts......thats where they're really the safest, just make sure you have the correct type of blade.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

The new radial arm saws can be used for ripping. Blade assembly will pull out towards you then it can be rotated 90 degrease. I hear they work well. As with any saw they can be very dangerous if you aren't using it right. Just learn about it and how to use it and you should be fine.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a table saw.....I love mine. However I wouldn't trade my chop saw, or my table saw for the other. They've both got their use. A radial arm saw is the middle of both. Has the capabilities of both, just slightly less convenient for table saw use.......like the last person said....any saw is dangerous...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's really pretty simple*

If you want to rip boards, especially moderately long ones like 6 or 7 ft for a picnic table then a table saw is the best way and it comes with a "rip" fence.

If you want to cut those 6 ft boards out of 12 footers then a Chop saw, hand held circular saw or a RAS with a long table is the best way.

Cross cutting longer boards on the table saw is awkward because it's difficult to hold the board in registration to the miter guide. A sled makes it easier, but it's still not as easy as on a RAS with an extended table. 

Here's what I'd do:
Get a nice quality table saw, a life time investment. Expect to pay around $1000.00 or so new.
Get a used RAS for around $150.00 or so, put a 60 tooth crosscut blade on it and you will have a cross cutting machine on the cheap.
A new chop saw or slider miter saw, upwards of $400.00 or so, is often found on job sites on a stand with supports to hold long boards or moldings. It's light and can be easily transported in a truck. Not so with a RAS.

So cost, accuracy and easy of transport are the main factors as to which one to use and where.

I have both a chop saw, sliding miter saw, a few RAS and a few table saws in my shop. On the site I have carried the chop and miter saws around as well as a light weight Bosch job site saw. RAS are too heavy to carry. 

The best reason for a wide fence table saw is for cutting panels to make cabinets. You may "graduate" into that type of work someday, so it's best to get the capacity now rather than later. :yes: bill


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

I should have mentioned my budget. I am value conscious and able to spend for good equipment. Let's just say I've been saving for a long time!

Right now I am planning to spend about $2,500. If I get a table saw, i'd get the Saw Stop. I've read a bunch here on the Saw Stop so I know it is controversial and don't want to start any heated political discussions. My kids use this at school and I feel it is the best option for us if I go table saw. 

On the RAS I've read that they can 'climb' on cross cuts and are a bit less safe. Not even sure what that means! I'll though dig in a bit more based on the advise in this thread.

And everyone - THANK YOU. This is an amazing forum.

Eric



ryan50hrl said:


> Table saws will be difficult to cross cut long boards, not that it can't be done, just that it can't be done as easy. Whats your budget? Radial arm saws are fine for cross cuts......thats where they're really the safest, just make sure you have the correct type of blade.


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

BigJoe16 said:


> It would be hard to crosscut a big board. For example a 12ft 2x12. It big and heavy. The table top on both saws are too small for 1 person to cut say a 7 in piece off the end. It's too hard to hold up the long end of the board.
> 
> But in my opinion it would be easier to build supporting tables for the chop saw and they would take up less room.
> If you got the chop saw you couldn't cut sheet goods like plywood. You would have to get a circular saw too. I find it harder to rip boards on my table saw than circular saw but I don't have the best blades either. My circular saw cuts much faster and I feel it's safer.
> ...


This is just what my friend was advising, and this is the advise that sent me into my downward spiral as it changed my plan! Ahhh, the confusion!! : )

Thanks for the perspective.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

You sound like you made up your mind but you could buy a used TS and chop saw to save money. Then after using them for a while, decide what one is more valuable to you, and buy a nice new one that will last a lifetime. Then you know you made the best decision based on your circumstances and requirements.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*RAS "climb"*

Since the saw enters the work from above and is pulled in from the back of the table, proper technique, you must use a proper blade.

The blade should have a zero or negative hook to the teeth, rather than a positive hook which tends to feed aggressively and "climb" back toward you.

Modern blades have the proper hook angle, where back in the day it was not widely understood about climbing. We just dealt with it by holding back on the saw handle.
So fear not with today's blades. :no: bill

BTW good choice on the Saw Stop.


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

BigJoe16 said:


> You sound like you made up your mind but you could buy a used TS and chop saw to save money. Then after using them for a while, decide what one is more valuable to you, and buy a nice new one that will last a lifetime. Then you know you made the best decision based on your circumstances and requirements.


My mind is definitely not made up! Wish it was so I could get to sleep. You guys are keeping me too entertained though to go to bed! Great stuff.

I am reading about RAS. Also wondering if I should just borrow my friend's chop saw for the picnic table and decide afterwards. But that's no fun.... 

Thanks!


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

You are eventually going to need/want both a table saw and a crosscut saw.

The discussions that favor the sliding compound miter saw (SCMS) are focused on crosscutting long, large boards. Is cutting this type of board something that you are going to do a lot? Think ahead to your projects. If you are going to be crosscutting smaller boards then the Table Saw (TS) is certainly more than adequate for the job. Especially with a sled.

When you will be cutting long/large boards just how much accuracy is going to be required? Can you make a rough cut with a circular saw and then move to the TS? If you will not be cutting these boards a lot and extreme accuracy is not required then possible the circular saw may even suffice.

It certainly is convenient to have an SCMS even for smaller miter and cross cuts.

I went for many years without any type of miter saw. All I had for any cuts was my table saw.

George


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Your budget should allow for a good TS, a miter saw, and even a cheap circular saw. I'd put the emphasis of time and money on a good TS, then would find a deal on a CMS or SCMS and circ saw.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Your shop layout can be important too. Even with a good crosscut sled I wouldn't have room to cross cut a 2x4 on my table saw in my basement workshop area, whereas the sc miter saw makes it easy.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

You should think about your future needs, not just the tool to make a picnic table. You could make the Popular Mechanics picnic table with hand tools.

I have table saw, SCMS, and circular saw. I used to have a RAS, but gave it away since I was not using it.

I would not want to be without my table saw.

I can use a hand saw to cross cut a board if needed. I still do this for longer boards to get a rough cut smaller piece.

When your future projects call for ripping e.g., a 1x3 board into 1in strips for some trim, the board is too narrow to be able to use a circular saw and straight edge.

I use my circular saw for cutting sheet goods to a size which can fit on my table saw. I have 36in capacity to the right of the blade, so if I need to cut something wider, then I have to use the circular saw and straight edge.

I recently cut some crown molding for a friend. I did this on the SCMS. I would not have been able to do this as easy on the table saw.

I use my table saw for most of my projects. Even my turning projects sometimes need a piece cut by the table saw.

At some point you will want an accurate cut to make a tight fitting joints. Hard to cut tenons on an SCMS. Can be done, just not as accurate as table saw.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

GeorgeC said:


> You are eventually going to need/want both a table saw and a crosscut saw.


+1 This is the bottom line. The table saw will do the majority of what you need - especially with a sled, which is not hard to build. However, there will be times when you need to cross cut something too awkward/unsafe to do easily on the table saw. For this I use a RAS and have been happy with it. You do need to control the cut so it doesn't climb but you will get a feel for it after a few cuts. Considering you can pick up a used RAS for $50 I'd suggest picking up one of these to start and sinking most of your money into the TS. You can always add a chop saw later but you will have the need covered now.


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## mikeswoods (May 18, 2009)

ericc22 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> A quick follow-up....
> 
> ...


Chop saws are intended for cross cutting only---ripping with one will burn the wood and can be extremely dangerous--the saw wants to pull the rip and bind---

Table saw is the center of any serious shop---

chop saws (miter saws) are a new invention---good tool to own--but if my shop could only have one saw--a table saw would be that choice---

Bigger is safer---get the biggest table you can afford.


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## Mandres (Sep 6, 2011)

you should buy a decent table saw, and a $30 Skil-saw (+upgraded blade). 

you only need a CMS if you're cutting angles, like base/crown moldings etc. For crosscutting construction lumber I always use my circular saw and a speed square anyway. It's faster and easier on my back than hoisting each board up onto the CMS table. 

On the other hand, every single project you'll do will require accurate, repeatable rip cuts. How are you going to rip two boards to exactly the same width with just a circular saw? You'd need to rig up some kind of jig every time.


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## Gougher (Jun 22, 2012)

*On the 8th day the Good Lord created the "Table Saw".* 

Get yourself a nice 10 inch table saw and your life will never be happier.  It truly is the foundation to any woodshop (IMHO).


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I think several people on here did not read the original posters statement that he intends to purchase a Saw Stop saw with that $2,500. That leaves him no money for multiple tools.

George


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

GeorgeC said:


> I think several people on here did not read the original posters statement that he intends to purchase a Saw Stop saw with that $2,500. That leaves him no money for multiple tools.
> 
> George


The basic contractor saw with the entry level fence and steel wings lists for ~ $1750....actual total will be higher but should still allow for an inexpensive chop saw and circ saw, but certainly nothing top shelf would be left in the budget.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

knotscott said:


> The basic contractor saw with the entry level fence and steel wings lists for ~ $1750....actual total will be higher but should still allow for an inexpensive chop saw and circ saw, but certainly nothing top shelf would be left in the budget.



I don't know that a top shelf csms is any better than a 12 inch miter saw for 90% of the guys.....my 12 craftsman that cost me 250 bucks works for virtually everything i've ever needed it to do......i'd be hard pressed to spend 500+ on a miter saw.......i'd go with the saw stop, and an inexpensive 12" miter saw.


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## Treeoflifestairs.com (Jan 9, 2012)

I think it really comes down to what you are planning on doing. As a stair builder there is no way I would be able to get by with out the csms but I was able to get away with out using a ts for years. I would buy s4s material if I needed solid material and would rip down plywood with my circular saw. Even 45 degree cuts on veneered plywood. 

With out doubt, the ts I have now is much easier, quicker, and more accurate than using a circular saw but it wasn't NEEDED for me the way the csms was. So you really have to decide on the kinds of projects you want to do to determine which tools to get.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Treeoflifestairs.com said:


> I think it really comes down to what you are planning on doing. As a stair builder there is no way I would be able to get by with out the csms but I was able to get away with out using a ts for years. I would buy s4s material if I needed solid material and would rip down plywood with my circular saw. Even 45 degree cuts on veneered plywood.
> 
> With out doubt, the ts I have now is much easier, quicker, and more accurate than using a circular saw but it wasn't NEEDED for me the way the csms was. So you really have to decide on the kinds of projects you want to do to determine which tools to get.


There's probably valid argument that none of our modern tools are actually "_*NEEDED*_"! :laughing:


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## Yeorwned (Jan 9, 2010)

You're not going to buy a miter saw and then not use it later just because you get a table saw. If anything, you might find it the other way around, where you would stop using a table saw for cross cutting if you got a miter saw.


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## danj (Jul 4, 2012)

If your friend will loan his cms, run with that (figuratively) for the picnic table. That gives you time to do more research, put another project under your belt, see what kind of project you get a hankering for next, and search out some good deals that could lead you to multiple tools.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Yeorwned said:


> You're not going to buy a miter saw and then not use it later just because you get a table saw....


I sure use my CMS less since getting a TS...


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

I guess we all know that "one size fits all" doesn't fit anything very well. If one has a cabinet saw cross cutting is less of an issue than one who has to deal with a contractor saw where the infeed space is limited. I am stuck with a Ridgid 4510 due to space constraints and more than about 9" wide stock can be problematic. Even a crosscut sled does little to help unless the runners are long enough to make it a storage problem. I resolved most of the issue by going with a 10" sliding cms. That gets me out a little over 11", anything wider is circ saw time.:smile:
In addition, those same shop space constraints make crosscutting anything more than 3 ft long a real project, moving the saw and various other mobile tools to allow for the stock travel.


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## ericc22 (May 10, 2012)

Just want to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. It has been very useful for me! 

Sadly, nothing is clear in my mind yet. The issue I understand is, what projects are you going to build? I just don't know yet and I guess that is what makes this harder. My next project is going to be a picnic table and I can do that by borrowing my neighbors chop saw again hopefully. I'll go with that and then think about things after that. I do believe though that in the next 3-6 months it will be time to get the table saw as that offers the most versatility.

Thank you!


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## Paul W Gillespie (Jul 7, 2011)

I vote table saw. I have a miter, an inexpensive Delta 10". I have had it almost 10 years and I have built many things with it, from deck, to sheds, to crown molding. That said I have not used it in my year old wood shop since I got my new table saw. As everyone said, it all depends on what you want to build. I would have never used my TS for the deck, shed or crown molding though. So I guess you got some thinking to do on what you want to build. Boy this post was no help, haha. Keep us updated on what you get. Good luck.


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## mattk8715 (Jan 22, 2010)

I started out w/ a cheap miter saw many years ago, doing decks. Then I got a nice Makita miter saw (around $500), then an OK table saw. (Actually, my first saw was a Dewalt skilsaw.)

At this point, I use both about equally as much. I couldn't do w/out one or the other. Just get the Saw Stop, and sell a car and go buy a Kapex as well :thumbsup: :jester:.

I hear a lot of guys say the ts is the center of the shop, but I still only use a Rigid portable and I have a Festool track saw to rip larger panels down to managable sizes for my ts. Works well, I've done more than a few custom kitchens that way, plus countless other things. Almost got a Delta Unisaw, but backed away at the last minute cuz my shops just too small and I'm constantly moving everything.


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## Fishinbo (Jul 23, 2012)

A band saw for me. I like the fact that a band saw is more quiet compared to a table saw. It also takes less space, less dangerous and definitely more versatile.


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## 65BAJA (May 27, 2012)

Fishinbo said:


> A band saw for me. I like the fact that a band saw is more quiet compared to a table saw. It also takes less space, less dangerous and definitely more versatile.


I like my band saw too but you can't do dados on it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*yes you can*



65BAJA said:


> I like my band saw too but you can't do dados on it.


Just stand the board on edge and make successive cuts to remove the waste. You can't use a board wider than you max height capacity though....just saying., because I have done just that many times. :yes: bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Fishinbo said:


> A band saw for me. I like the fact that a band saw is more quiet compared to a table saw. It also takes less space, less dangerous and definitely more versatile.


A bandsaw makes a much rougher cut, and requires an extra step to clean it up after every cut. Boards off my TS can go straight from the saw to glue up. 

My BS isn't much quieter than my TS either.....does your TS have a universal motor by any chance?


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