# Clogging.....



## FishFactory (Nov 8, 2013)

I am at my wits end here. I am in the middle of tearing apart all my ducts to remove a clog. How do you guys prevent this? I have tons of suction but softwoods through the joiner or planer clog up my system. I am using 4" PVC. The DC has a 4" port on it, so do all my tools. I think the grounding wire is catching some stuff and starting the clog and I don't know how to fix this. Please help.....I can't take much more if this....very counterproductive.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

FishFactory said:


> I am at my wits end here. I am in the middle of tearing apart all my ducts to remove a clog. How do you guys prevent this? I have tons of suction but softwoods through the joiner or planer clog up my system. I am using 4" PVC. The DC has a 4" port on it, so do all my tools. I think the grounding wire is catching some stuff and starting the clog and I don't know how to fix this. Please help.....I can't take much more if this....very counterproductive.


How long a run of 4" PVC are we talking, How many bends, and what is "tons of suction". A long run of 4" will seriously knock down your flow.

read this page and it may shine some light on the issues

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/ducting.cfm#ducting_introduction



hope this helps

Paul


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Remove the grounding wire inside the duct. It is not working as you think. The Bill Pentz site has more information on why the wire inside does not really ground.

If removing the wire solves the problem you are done.

Otherwise you may not have as much flow as you think.

Large chips need a high air velocity to keep them in the air stream.

If you have sharp 90 deg bends, Y adapters, all of these slow down the air. If the velocity drops enough larger particles drop out of the air stream and so begins the clog.


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## FishFactory (Nov 8, 2013)

From the dust collector, it goes up 5 feet to a 90 then out 2 feet to a T. from the T, one line goes 15 feet to a 90 then ten feet to a 90 then 4 feet down to a wye where my blast gates are. At this Wye, I have a floor sweep and a line to my joiner. On the other line from the T, it goes out ten feet to a 90 then down 4 feet to a wye where I have a line to the planer and one to the TS, these have blast gates to.

Tons of suction...? No idea how to explain it but there is a lot of suction, just as much as when I had the DC inside the shop with ten feet of line on it. I don't think I can go to 6 inch lines because of the air velocity dropping too much. Like I said, all the times it clogged, it was at a junction of the wire or where the wire goes around a bend.

Is it safe to remove the wire? I thought that was a big no-no.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

Remove the wire.


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

FishFactory said:


> From the dust collector, it goes up 5 feet to a 90 then out 2 feet to a T. from the T, one line goes 15 feet to a 90 then ten feet to a 90 then 4 feet down to a wye where my blast gates are. At this Wye, I have a floor sweep and a line to my joiner. On the other line from the T, it goes out ten feet to a 90 then down 4 feet to a wye where I have a line to the planer and one to the TS, these have blast gates to.
> 
> Tons of suction...? No idea how to explain it but there is a lot of suction, just as much as when I had the DC inside the shop with ten feet of line on it. I don't think I can go to 6 inch lines because of the air velocity dropping too much. Like I said, all the times it clogged, it was at a junction of the wire or where the wire goes around a bend.
> 
> Is it safe to remove the wire? I thought that was a big no-no.


I'd be willing to bet you don't have near the flow you think you do. Try to take out some of those 90s and/or Ts. Better yet, run a short flex from the DC to the machine being used at the time. You will really pick up your flow rate. Get a Wynn Environmental 0.5 micron filter for the top of you DC and that will really cut back on the really harmful particles you are still breathing, the almost invisible to invisible dust.

as to static electricity, read this:

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/ducting.cfm#static_electricity


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

You have a lot of fittings. T's and Y's create a lot of pressure drop.

Remove the wire, and look to remove T's and Y's if possible.

This year I removed a few Y's, and some flex duct, and changed short radius 90's for long radius 90's and had a big increase in suction and airflow resulting in much improved dust collection.


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## FishFactory (Nov 8, 2013)

That's some interesting reading, thanks guys. I believe that wire is gonna be history!!! I really think that is my problem as all my clogs have been at a fitting where the wire sticks up or joins another wire. The shavings wrapped the wire and clogged so bad that it even started pulling the wire till it met too much resistance and cause my blood pressure to spike...LOL


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## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

FishFactory said:


> That's some interesting reading, thanks guys. I believe that wire is gonna be history!!! I really think that is my problem as all my clogs have been at a fitting where the wire sticks up or joins another wire. The shavings wrapped the wire and clogged so bad that it even started pulling the wire till it met too much resistance and cause my blood pressure to spike...LOL


You still have issues. Too many Ts and 90s for a 4" pipe...


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## TMA Woodworks (Apr 23, 2010)

FishFactory said:


> That's some interesting reading, thanks guys. I believe that wire is gonna be history!!! I really think that is my problem as all my clogs have been at a fitting where the wire sticks up or joins another wire. The shavings wrapped the wire and clogged so bad that it even started pulling the wire till it met too much resistance and cause my blood pressure to spike...LOL


I read all of Bill Pentz. I took my cyclone from his web site. I would not lose the wire inside. I have one in mine. I use 4" pvc and the static give me one heck of a static shock when I use the planer. I had a similar problem. I reran all of my duct to eliminate as much of the sharp corners as possible. When I have a complicated union, I drilled a small hole in the pipe and ran the wire outside around the joint. I then drilled after and went back in the pipe. The wire now only follows inside the pipe on mainly straight runs. I can tell you that after this I have never had a clog and I still don't get any nasty shocks from the static:thumbsup: You can use foil duck tape to seal the hole after you run the wire

Bob


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh rats. I thought this was going to be a thread on clogging.

G


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

While you may get some static shock after removing the wire, that's about the extant of the danger. I had it on my first system, and found it to be such a PITA it was gone after the first rework. But the other advice on the tee's and 90's is golden. You will find better performance if you smooth that out.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*further reading will reveal...*



FishFactory said:


> That's some interesting reading, thanks guys. I believe that wire is gonna be history!!! I really think that is my problem as all my clogs have been at a fitting where the wire sticks up or joins another wire. The shavings wrapped the wire and clogged so bad that it even started pulling the wire till it met too much resistance and cause my blood pressure to spike...LOL


 4" lines don't flow enough volume to be efficient at removing the "fines" according to Pentz, BUT lot of folks here use them anyway. By going to a 5" or 6" main line and 4" drops you will see a great increase in volume. Suction is hard to measure unless you have a hi-tek gizmo for the purpose.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-619-Ther...640?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ce768d70

I just use a short 6 ft or less, flex line to each machine and a quick coupling I designed, all base on schedule 4" 30 PVC:


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## GoIrish (Jan 29, 2012)

Fred Hargis said:


> While you may get some static shock after removing the wire, that's about the extant of the danger. I had it on my first system, and found it to be such a PITA it was gone after the first rework. But the other advice on the tee's and 90's is golden. You will find better performance if you smooth that out.


If you leave the wire on the outside it will still keep your hair from standing on end. A couple of houses ago I had the same problem and the planer was the big problem and the clog was always in one of two places. I got pretty good about opening up the joint and clearing the clog. I now have the planer on wheels and roll it over to the DC and run it in with a flex hose.


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

What I did for easy clog removal is if you got 4 in pipe, drill a large hole in from the top, as large as possable (3 inch). Then take a piece of 4 inch pipe and cut a piece about 6 inches long and then split it long ways. Spread it apart and push it over the pipe with the large hole you just drilled. When you need to get inside, just slide the piece of pipe to get access to the hole and clean the clog.

Also static sparks can start fires. I had 1 inch sparks junping before putting a bare wire in mine and grounding on both ends.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

FF,
Two things about fires and home dust collector systems.
1 ~ The concentration of dust it too sparse to support combustion.
2 ~ The static discharge has insufficient energy to cause ignition.

Go ahead and remove the wire, fill any holes used to attach the wire and smooth the fill material. 

In your lay out there is a simple rule to follow. Use male connectors on the source side and female connectors on collection side. This makes for a smoother flow. 

In your description, it sounds like there is too many ups downs, bends "Y" and gates. I would re-think the system and perhaps just change the hose as you use a different tool. I have a 1100 SCFM (?) system and several hoses. I just change the hose at the trash can separator. It's 30 seconds every time I change tools.


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## Doomi (Aug 5, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> 4" lines don't flow enough volume to be efficient at removing the "fines" according to Pentz, BUT lot of folks here use them anyway. By going to a 5" or 6" main line and 4" drops you will see a great increase in volume. Suction is hard to measure unless you have a hi-tek gizmo for the purpose.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-619-Ther...640?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ce768d70
> 
> I just use a short 6 ft or less, flex line to each machine and a quick coupling I designed, all base on schedule 4" 30 PVC:


Would you mind sharing what PVC connectors you are using? This seems like an ideal solution to moving one hose between multiple machines.


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## FishFactory (Nov 8, 2013)

I haven't had much time to make any changes to the system yet but I did remove the wire. That made a HUGE difference! I have a couple small leak issues I have to tackle but its working great now, the leak fix should be a huge improvement as well. Static has not been any issue as well after removing the wire.


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