# Basement shop health concerns with contractor grade tools



## Jb45 (Jun 4, 2019)

Hi everyone!

I am new here and this is my first post. I tried searching but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for so if this has been covered please forgive me.

Last year I moved my woodshop from my one car garage to my basement. WI winters can be brutal in an unheated area and I was sick of fighting my wife for space for her car. I have a room in my basement sealed of from mechanicals and has one small window in the corner.

I recently was told about bill pentz's website and I looked into and to be honest I was so terrorized after reading it I have worked in my shop once in the past 3 months. I do not have thousands of dollars to spend on dust collectors or air meters and such. I do have a shop vac with a HEPA filter and a cyclone as I only have hobbyist and contractor grade tools that only have hook ups for a shop vac. I run a table saw, miter saw, a few Sanders, a small band saw and a scroll saw. I cut pine 95% of the time. I never work with exotics and occasionally have a project with oak or maple.

I know masks help significantly but I wear glasses and have a beard and find that wearing them for a long time is uncomfortable or my glasses fog up or after an hour I find it hard to breathe.

I have been considering adding an air filter from WEN to my shop and trying an RZ mask to see if it helps with the fogging and fine dust.

My questions are am I freaking out too much? I really don't want to put my family in danger. I don't notice any dust leaving my shop and getting into the house but apparently that doesn't mean it isn't there. What measures should I be taking to get rid of the fine dust that won't cost an arm and a leg? Do I need to move my shop back in the garage and work only 6 months out of the year?

My dad has been in the carpentry business for 40 years and tells me I need to calm down and quit worrying so much but everything I have been reading lately says otherwise.

There is so much information out there that my head is spinning trying to figure out how much prevention I can take without busting a budget or if I need to sell my tools and give up my hobby.

Sorry for the long post but I appreciate everyone's time and opinions!


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## Kerrys (May 2, 2016)

I’m no expert, matter of fact far from one so take my opinions with that in mind. For your personal safety you should spend some time and money and find a mask/respirator you will wear. As far as keeping dust from making its way into your living quarters create a negative air flow between the shop and the rest of the house. This could be accomplished by simply placing a small fan in your one window blowing to the outside. Turn it on when working in the shop and leave it running for a half hour or so after you stop working.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Most Dads are knowledgeable people who are concerned about their families. I am sure your Dad fits this. Calm down and listen to your Dad. Too man of today's society want to see a problem in everything and they try to make others have the same ridiculous attitude.


George


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

I have a basement workshop too, and venting exhaust from the dust collection to the outside doesn’t cut it for me either; can’t afford the heat.

I rely on an air filtration like the WEN you suggested. It runs the entire time I’m working in my shop as well as an hour or two after I leave. I don’t believe I’m hurting my health. I don’t have power tools running non-stop, only a few minutes at a time, and I don’t think you will either. I’m with your dad, you are over reacting.

The one sacrifice I did make that I think makes a big difference in keeping the dust down was investing in a couple Festool sanders with HEPA dust extraction. I hated sanding until I made the investment, now sanding doesn’t bother me at all.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's a good thing to be cautious, but .....*

We have to also be practical. Fine dust can be or is hazardous, so capture before it gets into the shop air. Do this by using your shop vac right at the sander's dust port, the miter saw's dust port and any other machine that has a 2 1/2" size port. The table saw is the worst culprit since it is very difficult to catch all the dust. Older saws are the worst! They do not have a shroud around the blade like the newer one's ... Bosch 4100-09 for example. IF the dust settles to the bottom of the cabinet before it gets evacuated out it's too late for any dust collector to be effective. The Pentz site will tell you there's a CFM minimum as well as a FPS minimum which most off the shelf DC's are not capable of, needed to evacuate the fine dust:
1,000 CFM and 5 HP motors....

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/beginnnerscorner.cfm#fine_dust_collection

See also"Small shop dust collectors"
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/equipment.cfm#BasicComponents

So, what's the best answer in the confusing and sometimes conflicting small shop environment? 

Don't use any ripped flex hose except where necessary. 

Keep run lengths to a minimum.

Use a cannister filter on the output side of the blower.


Use a cyclone or top hat separator between the suction line and the DC blower ....Super Dust Deputy or similar.

Use both a DC 2 HP and a shop vac and move them right next to the machine in use.


Collect dust at it's source of generation.

Wear a dust mask or an air filtered hood if possible. 

Use an overhead air filtration unit during and after shop operations.


The 2 HP Harbor Freight is the most popular and most modified DC on the web, mainly because it's the cheapest on sale.... around $150.00:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=modifying+a+harbor+freight+dust+collector+


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Welcome to the forum! Add your location to your profile so it shows in the side panel. Add your first name to your signature line so we'll know what to call you.

That's a nice looking shop! Our shop is our attached two-car garage and we have the HF 2HP unit with a Wynn 0.5micron filter, a shop vac with HEPA filter, and a 20" box fan with AC filter for room air. The first comment everyone makes when they come into our shop is how clean it is. I rarely wear a dust mask because I catch most dust at the source. I have a 20' clear 4" hose that I move from tool to tool as I use them and the CNC is on a branch with 4" PVC. When I use the CNC I just switch the short flex hose at the DC.

Before I changed from the 5 micron bag filter there was a layer of dust on most everything in the shop. I had to clean the filters on the mini-split unit every week, sometimes every few days. Now, with the Wynn filter, I clean the mini-split filters once a month. We have a CNC in the shop and the monitor and keyboard are not covered but I rarely see any dust on them. And we now keep the door open into the house without concern that dust will get into the house.

The overhead box fan with filter gets turned on every morning about 5:45 and stays on until 9 or so every night. I'm in the shop most of the day 5 days a week, sometimes Saturday, and if there's time between morning and evening church services on Sunday I'll get out there in the afternoon. The box fan works well and cost all of $30 to set up with filter and swivel mount on the ceiling above the outfeed of the table saw.

David


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Thinking slightly differently .....*

A dust collector has a blower which creates suction by evacuating air from a sealed container, well it does have a large hole on one end .....:surprise2:
So, the blower ends up pushing the dirty dusty air that remains after swirling around in the "separator" through the bag or cannister. As the bag/cannister clogs up, efficiency goes down, but the fines get filtered out better. :sad2::smile2:


This is why a pre-separator is very desirable. It will keep the final filter cleaner and it will last longer. The cyclones seem to be the most effective in that regard, but don't know if there are factual studies on their efficiency .....but, I could be wrong. Here's some You Tubes comparing various types:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dust+deputy+vs+clearvue+mini+


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

A box fan with a pleated furnace filter secured by a bungee cord works great. Leave it on for an hour or so after you leave the shop.


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## Jb45 (Jun 4, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm going to keep a healthy respect for wood dust but not let it keep me out of my shop. I will work up some sort of air filter wether I buy one or make one with a box fan. I am going to find a comfortable mask just in case too.

Another question. I was looking into the harbor freight dust collector that was mentioned and it says it has a 4" inlet. All of my machines have the 2" (or 2.5", I can't remember) for a shop vac. Would it be beneficial to reduce the 4" line down to fit my machines or would I be shooting myself in the foot. I see the HEPA dust extractor was mentioned too. Is there any benefit to the big dust extractor vs one of the HEPA that would already hook up to my machines?

Thanks again for all the great info!

Jason


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Don't reduce the 4" inlet!*

Use a shop vac for all the port 2 1/2" Use a DC with ports 4" in size. My 14" bandsaw has both size ports, for example, but I just use the 2 1/2" right directly under the blade insert for best "at source" collection.


As Pentz states, a DC moves larger volumes of air at lower pressures and the shop vac moves smaller volumes of air at higher pressures/velocities. Each serves a different purpose and you will find that a planer or jointer will clog a shop vac hose almost certainly because of the size and shape of the chip, but will not clog with sawdust.


Watch those You Tubes that compare the Super Dust Deputies and Clear View Cyclones, a Pentz design, IF I recall.


You really need:
An overhead filtration collector
A DC for large chips 

A shop vac for "at source" collection. 



A pre-separator will help keep the filers clean on the DC and Shop Vacs.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Let me just say this, more than 45 years ago my first job professionally was catching teak as it was being surfaced. No dust control on the planer, I just stood behind the planer for months catching the wood. Then I moved on to other shops sawing particleboard all day with no dust control. Over the last 45 years I've only worked for one company that had dust control and I only worked there a year. I've had my own company for more than 30 years and have only gotten some dust control the last couple years and that was mainly because I bought a Unisaw that didn't have the door on the front to empty the dust. After all that I can't say the dust has hurt me. I don't have any respiratory trouble.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Youre freaking out too much, decidedly. 

Yes, fine dust is a hazard, its nasty stuff to get in your lungs and contact with it should definitely be limited to as little as humanly possible. That said, im of the opinion that Mr. Pentz, fantastic though his work is, massively overblows the issue. I fully agree with his conclusion that as much as dust as possible should be caught in some form of filter, i disagree with the methods. You dont need a few thousand dollars worth of dust collectors with gigantic cyclone filters that separate 99.99% of dust and catch everything that comes off of every tool in your shop. Fact of the matter is, you can get by more than fine with that Harbor Freight unit you looked at, equip it with a cartridge filter, and set up a box fan with a furnace filter duct taped to it and youll be pretty well set. Actually, if were being honest, you can get by with nothing more than a $40 respirator that you put on before you enter the shop, the dust collector and air filter just keeps you from throwing dust on every surface in the shop. 

I would say that you wont be putting your family in any more danger than walking outside would put them in, so far as airborne dust is concerned. Sawdust is heavier than air, so the chances of even the fine dust migrating upstairs to a harmful concentration is pretty minimal, and the biggest risk is to the operator of the tool. Keep on collection as much as possible at the tools, to prevent making a mess and tracking it upstairs, and consider investing in an air cleaner to keep the air in the shop clean and reduce the chances of migration even further. Couple of box fans with furnace filters taped to them work, or you can go with an actual air cleaner, like this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-3-S...tration-System-300-350-400-CFM-3410/205465910

Dont forget to take care of yourself while working with the tools though. Wear a dust mask at the minimum when in the shop, personally i prefer a half-mask respirator. Unless you do your belt sanding right next to an HVAC return line though, the dust shouldnt be a problem upstairs


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Yes, dust is dangerous because it has been linked with Nasal and throat cancers. Came to light in UK when there was a cluster of these cancers around High Wycombe in UK. Sufferers had been working in the furniture industry.
johnep


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Yes, you are right to be concerned, all due respect to your father. I personally know of one man who worked in a cabinet shop that used a lot of MDF who has severe lung issues.

Aside from that, keep in mind certain species can have more detrimental effects, like cedar and walnut.


I recommend you invest in a good quality air filtration unit.

I would also figure out a way to exhaust contaminated air outside in those cases when you need it.


That said, I think another excellent investment is a high end dust extraction unit such as Festool or Fein. When use with sanders, biscuit joiners, etc. I can tell you they do a superior job and are infinitely quieter than a shop vac.


Install a HEPA filter in your shop vac. I use a small cyclone with mine to collect my router, belt and oscillating sander, and miter saw.


The table saw is another matter. The dust that is spread on top of the table is what you need to worry about. Various overarm collectors are available such as Excalibur.


Unfortunately, the mask or respirator is going to be a necessary evil at times when you cannot collect, such as using a router for certain tasks.


To reiterate, air filtration and a way to quickly exhaust the area outside are two necessities IMO.


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

> I don't have any respiratory trouble.


Yet. My father was a heavy smoker from WWII up to December 1959, when he quit. Lung cancer popped up in the mid 90s. The doctor said smoking plus exposure to asbestos in manufacturing combined to hatch the problem. Both were delayed reactions.
All kinds of cancer have been found in 7 out of 9 in his family. My mother had cancer- skin, thyroid, breast cancer twice. Me? I'm just waiting to see when and where. If I'm lucky, I'll be 98 and get shot in the back by a jealous husband.


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## DesertRatTom (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm a throat cancer survivor so I take sawdust control seriousl. Do get the WEN unit. I have two separate shop areas, so I have two WEN units. Really effective at clearing the air of fine dust. I ordered one from WalMart, the other from Home Depot--best prices at the time, and carton is not bashed in shipping. 



I leave them on for at least 2 hours on high. Hang the WEN unit near a wall to set up a circular air flow.



Dust mask: I don't have a beard, but do wear glasses. Rockler's powered respirator works really well for me. Air blows out across my cheeks and keep my glasses from fogging and dust away from my eyes. Pix below.


I'm a big fan of the HF unit, very often on sale with a 20-25% coupon for $162 around here. Have two, one with a Wynn filter, the other gets pushed out the garage door so a bag will do. If I had it to do another filter, it would be the Grizzly drum filter that has a bar inside to knock the sawdust out using the exterior handle. Maybe Wynn will have a similar one in the future. Wynn has a model with mounting bolts for the HF unit.


I live in the high desert where winters can hit 4 to 10 degrees f. Summer occasionally reaches 117 f. So I'm in the process of enclosing the HF unit in a space being enclosed between the shop shed and a second office shed. The space will be pretty well sealed. A dust deputy and chip collector gets most of the sawdust, the HF unit's Wynn filter (1micron) gets almost everything, there will be two more filters in the return air passage back into the shop. The heated/conditioned air gets returned to the shop that way. Just finishing up that space now. Pix is early in the process, doors are on now. Super Dust Deputy is on top of the fiber drum.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

*Lucky*



Pineknot_86 said:


> [...] If I'm lucky, I'll be 98 and get shot in the back by a jealous husband.


Actually, what happens is you get lucky first, then you get shot by the jealous husband. ;-)

(Sorry, but I couldn't resist.)


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