# How Thin is Thin Kerf



## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

To All,

In a recent discussion on saw blades it became evident that I did not know what qualified as "thin kerf".

My question is: What is the definition of "thin kerf"? How thin does the kerf need to be to be considered thin?

Bret


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bret - A standard table saw blade has a kerf of around ~.125 - or an eighth of an inch. Thin kerf blades run about .098 or in the neighborhood of 3/32". There is a manufacturer that's making some super thin kerf blades but that's another topic.

So many people use thin kerf blades that it seems they are almost the standard anymore.

Bill


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

Lola Ranch said:


> To All,
> 
> In a recent discussion on saw blades it became evident that I did not know what qualified as "thin kerf".
> 
> ...


thin kerf usually refers to 3/32. i dont use it or recommend thin kerf. i like the full 1/8 inch blade. less deflection = better quality cut


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

dodgeboy77 said:


> So many people use thin kerf blades that it seems they are almost the standard anymore.
> 
> Bill


no way are they the standard. people buy them cuz either
1- they dont know better 
2- theyre cheaper
3- they need them for the type work theyre doing.

they do have their place but for quality furniture making , most good woodworkers use 1/8 inch blade


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bob,

What I'm saying is that regardless of which is better (and I agree with all of what you said regarding the advantages), I'd be willing to bet that manufacturers are selling more thin kerf than regular. Go into a big box store and see how many full kerf blades are on the rack.

And if you have a 1-1/2 horsepower saw or less, you are probably going to bog down on a full kerf blade on some hardwoods. I personally run a full kerf blade on my 3 HP table saw, but the lower powered RAS and chop saws have thin kerf blades on them.

Bill


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

bob sacamano said:


> no way are they the standard. people buy them cuz either
> 1- they dont know better
> 2- theyre cheaper
> 3- they need them for the type work theyre doing.
> ...


Or, none of the above.. Ever occur to you that a universal motor equipped saw may benefit from them.:icon_cool:


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I have a Delta Contractors saw and have been using a thin kerf blade with a blade stiffener for years and I have no issues with quality of cut.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

I don't believe there's a set standard to act as an official guide, but 10" full kerf is typically in the 1/8" range, and thin kerf is typically in the 3/32" range. Smaller circular saw blades tend to be thinner than that, and there's a special 10" blade that's supposed thinner than a dime....it's so special that it costs $175!


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

jschaben said:


> Ever occur to you that a universal motor equipped saw may benefit from them.:icon_cool:


 
john 
usually i dont respond to diatribe - but my comments were for 3hp cabinet saws . 

i did say they had their place but most good woodworkers DONT use them.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

3/32nd Freud makes a nice one works great on pre finished material. Nice for installs


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## cocheseuga (Dec 15, 2010)

bob sacamano said:


> john
> usually i dont respond to diatribe - but my comments were for 3hp cabinet saws .
> 
> i did say they had their place but most good woodworkers DONT use them.


Guess there's a lot of not good woodworkers then.


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## Itchytoe (Dec 17, 2011)

knotscott said:


> there's a special 10" blade that's supposed thinner than a dime....it's so special that it costs $175!


Ouch, $175 for less than a dime in return? Sounds like someone's getting the shaft on that one.


I typically stay away from the think kerf blades. I do understand that they have their place, but I haven't run into a problem yet that required I keep that extra 1/32" of wood that the "thick kerf" would have chewed up. Maybe it's because I"m not good enough yet.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

dodgeboy77 said:


> ... Go into a big box store and see how many full kerf blades are on the rack....


Bill makes a good point about what most of the big box stores sell....they tend to sell cheaper thin kerf blades, but I'm sure that some carry full kerf too. Most commercial shops probably don't deal with box stores for their blade needs.

Before I had my 3hp cabinet saw, I found that my 2hp contractor saw and 1-3/4hp hybrid had a noticeably easier time spinning a good quality TK vs full kerf, and the cut quality was pretty comparable. I can't help but think it could extend motor life also. 

Cutting volumes and cutting duration should also be considered when choosing kerf width. My volumes were that of a weekend amateur, and my cutting sessions tended to be fairly short compared to the higher volumes and marathon sessions of a commercial shop. I was also pretty conscientious about flattening and straightening my stock before ripping, which reduces stress. Full kerf blades tend to tolerate high temperatures better than TK's, which means that a TK is more likely to lose it's tensioning and buckle when forced into high temperature high stress situations.


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## desertforest (Aug 6, 2011)

bob sacamano said:


> john
> usually i dont respond to diatribe - but my comments were for 3hp cabinet saws .
> 
> i did say they had their place but most good woodworkers DONT use them.


:icon_smile: i feel better already. i am a learning wood hobbyist, but i use a full kerf blade, so that means i should consider myself a "good woodworker"? :laughing: :laughing: thanks for that Bob, i feel better already. now if i can only translate that feeling to the actual wood i usually butcher and half-jokingly call a "project", then i'll be walking on sunshine:thumbsup:


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

Back to the OP's question, I think anything under .110 is considered TK. I have seen them from .110 down to .094.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

I was at one of the local HD's tonight - a big one at Willow Grove. They had a fair variety of 10" blades on the rack with a lot of Freud, DeWalt, etc. Not a single one was full kerf - not one. The funny thing was that some of the cheaper ones didn't even say what kerf that they were - I could tell they were TK by looking at them, though.

Again, I don't disagree with Bob's list of advantages of a full kerf blade (and a diatribe is good from time to time) but I think it's mainly thin kerf blades being sold, unless you are looking at serious woodworkers with serious saws that have serious power.

Carpenters wouldn't care - they are cutting fir and the accuracy isn't as big a deal as a cabinetmaker needs, plus mostly they are using universal motor job-site saws. Most hobbyists have lower powered saws that are better off with thin kerf blades. It's just guys like some of us that have serious saws and are really concerned that our miters are always spot on or are ripping a lot of thick hardwood that can really take advantage of the full kerf blade.

Bill


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

That's what I thought, 3/32" or less is thin kerf. There seems to be some strong feelings regarding kerf width. The reason I asked about it was because, on another thread, the saw blade I've been using was described as not thin kerf. That blade being the Frued Diablo 10" x 60t ATB for about $40.

The reason I bought this particular blade was because I was at HD about five years ago and I needed a saw blade and this one was there and for $40 I figured I'd take a chance. I was so pleasantly surprised with the performance of this blade that it is all I use anymore. It rips, crosscuts, miters, cuts veneer plywood very accuratley and cleanly. I've bought several of them over the past five years

I've owned blades costing closer to $200 that did not perform noticeable better. There is nothing wrong with other more expensive blades and the may indeed produce a better cut but as I said, to me it's not noticeable. If you like the standard kerf blades then more power to you. 

I am of the opinion that 3/32 might become the new "standard" even for, so called good woodworkers, which I consider myself to be.:yes:

Bret


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

*BEWARE*

Many table saws use a splitter / riving knife / etc. that are designed for a full kerf (1/8") blade. If you use a thin kerf blade with one of these splitters it will be very difficult to push the stock through the cutting area of the saw. The stock will bind on the splitter and may bind between the splitter and the fence. 
(See final paragraphs of this post.)

The only thin kerf splitter that I am aware of is "Micro Jig".

I used a thin kerf blade on my contractor saw. I did not notice any difference between the thin kerf and full kerf until I got into 8/4 oak. There was a substantial difference between a Woodworker and the TK with the TK being the winner. But by using a more appropriate (Combination 40 tooth full kerf) blade for the cut, the cut was even easier. As long as my saw was aligned correctly, I did not experience any problems that a TK blade is intended to solve. 

I tend to agree that TK blades are best used on bench top table saws. However there is still the problem with the splitter thickness. But then a bench top table saw was never really intended to be cutting anything much thicker than 4/4 stock. 

When we install the splitter assembly on a table saw we usually use a straight edge against the blade to align the splitter. Not a big deal, right? Well what usually happens is that we align the splitter with the arbor nut side of the blade. When a TK blade is used in a saw that used a full kerf blade for the splitter assembly this problem occurs. The splitter is offset from the cut by 1/32" of an inch AND the kerf is too thin to allow the splitter to pass easily.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

good points Rrich!

Bret


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Lola Ranch said:


> If you like the standard kerf blades then more power to you.


A great pun Bret. 

I believe the best blade to use would be the one suited for the particular cut. It does sound like a fire drill to keep changing blades. For the most part it is easier to just leave one blade on even if there are variables in stock. 

For lower powered saws the TK does allow the saw to cut easier...it just stands to reason, that it's has less wood to cut. The TK's do have the propensity to deflect more easily than FK. I do most of my cutting with the blade high. For all of those that shiver at the thought, it's not a problem if you keep your fingers out of the blade. IMO any blade cuts easier, and the stock is more controllable with a high blade.

Most of the time I'm using FK blades. For the times I decide to use a TK, I've tried the blade stabilizers, and they don't allow much exposure due to their diameter. I didn't answer your question, but, sometimes I slip up and been known to do that.:laughing:











 







.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Lola Ranch said:


> That's what I thought, 3/32" or less is thin kerf. There seems to be some strong feelings regarding kerf width. The reason I asked about it was because, on another thread, the saw blade I've been using was described as not thin kerf. That blade being the Frued Diablo 10" x 60t ATB for about $40....


Freud definitely describes their Diablo line as thin kerf on their website.... _"New super thin kerf provides ease of feed, accuracy and maximized performance"_. 

The D1060"X" for table and miter saw is 0.098", while the D1060"S" for sliding miter saws (and RAS) is 0.087". The Freud Industrial LU88, which is very similar to the D1060X, is also listed as thin kerf on the Freud Tool website, and currently lists it as 0.090.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

bob sacamano said:


> john
> usually i dont respond to diatribe - but my comments were for 3hp cabinet saws .
> 
> i did say they had their place but most good woodworkers DONT use them.


That is a rather broad based statement. Just how many "good" woodworkers did you poll to reach that decision?

George


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

knotscott said:


> Freud definitely describes their Diablo line as thin kerf on their website.... _"New super thin kerf provides ease of feed, accuracy and maximized performance"_.
> 
> The D1060"X" for table and miter saw is 0.098", while the D1060"S" for sliding miter saws (and RAS) is 0.087". The Freud Industrial LU88, which is very similar to the D1060X, is also listed as thin kerf on the Freud Tool website, and currently lists it as 0.090.


Amana is close. Their trim blades (80T) are .090. Their "Mamba" blades in 24T, 42T, an d 50T, are .098. Sample.










 







.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> That is a rather broad based statement. Just how many "good" woodworkers did you poll to reach that decision?
> 
> George


are you complaining cuz you werent on the 'good' woodworkers poll list ? :laughing:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Dang, now I find out it was the TK blade...*



bob sacamano said:


> john
> usually i dont respond to diatribe - but my comments were for 3hp cabinet saws .
> 
> i did say they had their place but most good woodworkers DONT use them.


I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. My woodworking just wasn't any "good" and now I know why...... it was the dang blade. I've got about 8 of those Diablo TK blades all over the shop, 40 tooth, 60 tooth and 24 tooth. Any takers out there? :blink: I'll sell them all at my cost...from $30.00 to $35.00. :no:. 





All said with tongue firmly planted in cheek. :yes: bill


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. My woodworking just wasn't any "good" and now I know why...... it was the dang blade. I've got about 8 of those Diablo TK blades all over the shop, 40 tooth, 60 tooth and 24 tooth. Any takers out there? :blink: I'll sell them all at my cost...from $30.00 to $35.00. :no:.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because those blades are to blame for your lack of "good" woodworking I would think that you would want rid of them immediately. I will be glad to accept them and even pay the shipping.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Really George?*



GeorgeC said:


> Because those blades are to blame for your lack of "good" woodworking I would think that you would want rid of them immediately. I will be glad to accept them and even pay the shipping.
> 
> George


You may have missed the :no: and the "All said with tongue firmly planted in cheek." :yes: bill


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> You may have missed the :no: and the "All said with tongue firmly planted in cheek." :yes: bill


No. I did not miss it. Really did not expect you to ship the blades.

G


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> Because those blades are to blame for your lack of "good" woodworking I would think that you would want rid of them immediately. I will be glad to accept them and even pay the shipping.
> 
> George


 
i didnt read anywhere where it said the blades were the blame of your lack of good woodworking. 

thats on you. dont blame your blades

but i did read where someone posted that most good woodworkers DONT use thin kerf blades. maybe its because they use a cabinet saw. maybe its because they dont buy blades at home depot. maybe its because of alot of things.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

bob sacamano said:


> but i did read where someone posted that most good woodworkers DONT use thin kerf blades.


I wonder who said that. :laughing:


bob sacamano said:


> i did say they had their place but most good woodworkers DONT use them.











 







.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

George


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