# Jet? Grizzly? Powermatic? Something I missed?



## Miller Woodworks (Dec 11, 2013)

I currently have one good woodworking tool, my Jet 10-14VS lathe. The rest are decades old and all are in need of repair. So far, I'm extremely happy with my Jet lathe. It's smooth and quiet and has been able to handle everything I've thrown at it. In hindsight, I likely would have gone with a bigger one simply because I want to be able to make bigger and better things with it.

I have a lot of overtime coming up in January so I should be able to replace my table saw and pick up a bandsaw early February. My birthday is also in February so Woodcraft sends me a 20% off coupon for my birthday. I think it's 20%, might be only 10%. I'm looking at this Jet bandsaw and this Jet table saw. I assume they would be just as good as my little lathe so I'd be happy with them. They're also kinda expensive, but with the 20% off, they aren't bad.

I've heard great things about Powermatic, so I'm also considering that brand even though they're at the top of what I'd be willing to spend. This would be the table saw, and this the bandsaw I'd likely go with if I got the Powermatic items. I'd also get them from Woodcraft to make use of the 20% coupon. I realize the Powermatic bandsaw only has a 6" maximum resaw capability, but I don't think I'd ever need more than that. Is it common to need more?

I've heard good things about Grizzly too. They're significantly cheaper so I can get bigger motors and seemingly better equipment from them. Table saw, and bandsaw that are likely candidates. I have no coupon for these, but since they're cheaper I save that way and get a full cabinet saw instead of a hybrid and more powerful equipment. That's a win right?

Am I comparing items of completely different classes, or are these things pretty much the same with different paint and price tags? If you have any of these or have worked with them in the past and can shed a little light on my situation, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, is there something I'm completely overlooking that is similarly priced that would be worth also considering?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've used Powermatic equipment for 40 years and they work great. I can't say the same about Grizzly. Everyone talks highly about Grizzly so when I was needing a second shaper I bought a G1026. I found the quality of the shaper to be lower than Harbor Freight standards. The machine is dangerous to run with anything other than three wing cutters. Then to deliver the power from the 3 hp motor they have it set up on a single 3/8" belt. This will be my last Grizzly machine. I'm going to replace it with a real shaper and sell this one.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

A ton of guys love grizzly tools.....but grizzly is the Chevy....and powermatic is the Mercedes of tools. Now millions of guys get solid work done with Chevys, but would you turn down a new Mercedes??


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Another upper end table saw would be Saw Stop. It's a very well thought out and built saw that has the added benefit of flesh sensing technology.

Delta unisaw is another on in the same price ranges while Grizzly may not be up to the Powermatic, SawStop or Unisaw quality they are very good tools at lower prices. I had both the Grizzly and Shop Fox 3hp Table saws and they were solid saws. I now have the SawStop because of an accident.. Hindsight you know. 

Now the SawStop is much higher quality and has the safety I wanted but it is at a much higher cost.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

IMO Grizzly represents the best bang for the buck in the marketplace. The vast majority of bigger Grizzly machines are very competitive with other Asian imports like Jet, Rikon, General International, Steel City, some PM, some Delta, some Laguna, Craftex, King Industrial, and others....their table saws are especially well regarded. In some cases, the tools even come from the same factory as other more expensive brands. If you're willing to be your own middleman, and forego the dealer support from PM and Jet, the savings come by way of by cutting out the dealer profit. As with any tool, it's best to research and compare the specific tool in question, but many, many of the Grizzly machines are more than suitable for fine woodworking.

The Griz G0690 or G1023RL are clearly a step up in class from the PM64B hybrid IMO....more mass, more power, more rugged design and construction. If you've got 220v, without question I'd take the step up to more saw. If you don't have 220v, I'd opt for a Saw Stop contractor saw or 1.75hp PCS over the PM64B that doesn't have the safety technology.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> A ton of guys love grizzly tools.....but grizzly is the Chevy....and powermatic is the Mercedes of tools. Now millions of guys get solid work done with Chevys, but would you turn down a new Mercedes??


Powermatic is, IMHO, just like every other Asian made power tool. It likes to present itself as the Mercedes, but it's really all just good marketing. Griz is the best value short of CL.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

If you go look at powermatic tools....compare the specs, look at the build quality....you can't honestly say they're on the same level as grizzly.


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

I think PM is a step above the Grizzly products but I don't think it's worth that much extra. If you compare the Jet and PM offerings you will see that they are almost identical, just more money for the PM. In the old days PM was the Mercedes but in today's market, I think they are trading on their past glory.


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## NY-woodworker (Nov 19, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> A ton of guys love grizzly tools.....but grizzly is the Chevy....and powermatic is the Mercedes of tools. Now millions of guys get solid work done with Chevys, but would you turn down a new Mercedes??


Quote of the year so far!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

retfr8flyr said:


> I think PM is a step above the Grizzly products but I don't think it's worth that much extra. If you compare the Jet and PM offerings you will see that they are almost identical, just more money for the PM. In the old days PM was the Mercedes but in today's market, I think they are trading on their past glory.


Based on what....give us a few examples


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

Jet Deluxe Xacta 3hp and PM2000 3hp 30 inch table models are almost the same saw. The table on the PM is a little larger, 22x30 1/2 vs 20x29 on the Jet, the motor is a little weaker 13 amps vs. 14.5. The PM2000 is $700 more then the Jet. The 5HP 50 inch models are similar with the motor reversed, the Jet is 18 amps and the PM is 21. The PM is $1100 more then the Jet. When you add in that I could get a good discount on the Jet and I couldn't get any discount on the PM, I just didn't see the extra cost in the PM and got the Jet 5 HP model, which is actually a true 3 hp saw. Hell, I think the Jet is over priced but I really liked some of it's features over the Grizzly.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Did you compare casting thicknesses? Bearing sizes? Machining tolerances? Paint and finish quality? 

There's more to a machine than just physical size dimensions when comparing quality.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

retfr8flyr said:


> Jet Deluxe Xacta 3hp and PM2000 3hp 30 inch table models are almost the same saw. The table on the PM is a little larger, 22x30 1/2 vs 20x29 on the Jet, the motor is a little weaker 13 amps vs. 14.5. The PM2000 is $700 more then the Jet. The 5HP 50 inch models are similar with the motor reversed, the Jet is 18 amps and the PM is 21. The PM is $1100 more then the Jet. When you add in that I could get a good discount on the Jet and I couldn't get any discount on the PM, I just didn't see the extra cost in the PM and got the Jet 5 HP model, which is actually a true 3 hp saw. Hell, I think the Jet is over priced but I really liked some of it's features over the Grizzly.


If you check under the hood, you'll see that the Jet and PM are not the same saw....the Jet is much more similar to the G0690 than the PM2000.



















G0690:


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

My experience is with Laguna, and from what I heard they offer a good bit of quality for less than the cost of a Powermatic. I had a small jet band saw and was not happy with how several parts seemed flimsy feeling. Most of it was cosmetic stuff, end caps popping off in my hands and such. I spent $1,200 for my Laguna 14 | 12 and with a 1 3/4 hp motor its well worth it.


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## mrcanterbury (May 7, 2012)

GISer3546 said:


> My experience is with Laguna, and from what I heard they offer a good bit of quality for less than the cost of a Powermatic. I had a small jet band saw and was not happy with how several parts seemed flimsy feeling. Most of it was cosmetic stuff, end caps popping off in my hands and such. I spent $1,200 for my Laguna 14 | 12 and with a 1 3/4 hp motor its well worth it.


I just looked at this saw at rockler. What are the cons?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

GISer3546 said:


> My experience is with Laguna, and from what I heard they offer a good bit of quality for less than the cost of a Powermatic. I had a small jet band saw and was not happy with how several parts seemed flimsy feeling. Most of it was cosmetic stuff, end caps popping off in my hands and such. I spent $1,200 for my Laguna 14 | 12 and with a 1 3/4 hp motor its well worth it.


It varies by model...these saws came from the same factory, have the same design, and use the same parts:


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## Toller (Dec 30, 2007)

I have one Jet. I got it because I got it new for 50% off.
I have a Sawstop because there is nothing else like it.
And I have a Rikon because there was an incredible sale on it when I needed a bandsaw.

All the rest are Grizzlies. They make a very decent tool at an extremely good price. Without a compelling reason, it is all I would buy. (the one Laguna I tried was 50% off and still overpriced; but they make a nice bandsaw blade)

BTW, I have only used my Woodcraft birthday coupon once; it typically excluded anything you might want to buy. (unless they have changed it; I haven't bothered to look recently because I really don't like Woodcraft)


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## Tom King (Nov 22, 2013)

I think Jet and PM will be 15% off pretty soon.

http://www.woodcraft.com/default.as...ode=06INGOOG&gclid=CILfkcXH3rsCFYZi7AodtXIAOQ


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## GISer3546 (Jan 30, 2013)

mrcanterbury said:


> I just looked at this saw at rockler. What are the cons?


Very few so far. The blade is 115", which seems to be a bit odd meaning I cant just drive to a store and pick one up. Other than convinience the guides have given me some trouble. They`re ceramic and while fully adjustable they're missing the micro adjust I was expecting. Except for those slight issues I`ve loved it. It cuts perfectly straight with no drift and has a tall fence perfect for resawing.


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## Miller Woodworks (Dec 11, 2013)

There is certainly a lot to think about in this thread. I'm still not sure what I'll end up getting, but I appreciate all the input.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

put down the jet/powermatic kool aid and start focusing on value rather than faded brand names with exorbitant sticker prices. there is nothing the jet and PM tools you linked will do that the similar grizzly tools will not do. WOOD magazine fabricates many of the parts for their projects on a ridgid contractor saw (a 3650 or 3660). the tools you linked will all do the same thing. what would compel someone to spend $1000, e.g., and settle for a 14" BS when the same expenditure will get a different brand that's 17" and 2 hp?

go with griz for a better value. what's saved can go for more tools or useful accessories for the tools that are acquired.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Since this has turned into a bash / praise Powermatic thread let me toss some gasoline into the fire.

At school, before they were replaced by Saw Stop, there were Delta, General, Jet and Powermatic table saws. These saws were all cabinet models and 5 HP. (Not sure about 5 HP on the Jet) All the saws were about the same age, 10-15 years. All the saws were maintained by a dedicated technician. He really knows his stuff and helped me solve problems on my own equipment.

I was able to assist installing the Saw Stop saws but I've not used them.

When I was doing work in the school's shop my first choice was always the Delta UniSaw. The General was my next choice and the Powermatic was my last choice. 

The choice was based on how blades were changed, the feel of the blade raise and lower mechanism. There is nothing wrong with any of the saws. My preference was just based on how things felt. I just preferred the feel of the other saws to the Powermatic. In woodworking, if something doesn't feel right, you may be heading for an accident. All I can say is that the Powermatic didn't feel right *TO ME.* 

I did not like using a dado blade on the Powermatic because of the 1-1/2 thread rule. (In the aerospace community the rule is that there must be 1-1/2 threads extending beyond the nut.) In all fairness, the arbor nut on the Powermatic is about 3 times as thick as one on a Delta. However, if I don't see the threads sticking out I'm uncomfortable.

IIRC, the depth of the table on the Powermatic is deeper than most other saws. This can be an advantage and a disadvantage.


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## Miller Woodworks (Dec 11, 2013)

*Update!*

Here's a quick update for you all. I ended up going with Grizzly. Ordered a G1023RLWX table saw. 5hp and 220v so I'll have to run a circuit for it. That's ok though because it will be all of about 15 feet from my main breaker and I have plenty of extra wire left over from a home renovation project. I also picked up 30th Anniversary band saw which again, will need a circuit run for it, but again will be close to the breaker. 

One thing I noticed is that the shipping weight for these things is listed as about 550 and 350 pounds respectively. HOLY #&@*! That's 900 pounds worth of tools heading my way. Are they really that heavy? That seems insanely heavy, even for a table saw.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

That's right. On a mobile base they move ok. Keep in mind for shipping, the fence and rails are off as are the wings. There's 200 lbs already.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

congrats on the buy. wise, value driven choices are seldom regretted.


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