# New table saw for newbie recommendations



## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Hi,

I need a table saw. I don't want to spend more than, say, $350, if that.

Ive read that a good rip fence makes almost a bigger difference in some cases than the saw itself.

So I am wondering what to buy.

I have liked ryobi's tools and innovativeness in the other tools I have of theirs. 

There is a bt3000 that I suspect is in good condition near me, used, for $200. I could probably bring it down to 180. I have read that unlike other stock rip fences, this one is already pretty good. Still, I could pop 150-200 for a good rip fence on this. This is one option.

The other is a new RTS10 ryobi for $120, with a 200-250$ rip fence.

The third option is a Rockwell for $150 http://www.rockwelltoolsdirect.com/10-shop-tablesaw.html, with a 200-220$ rip fence.

Fourth would be some other table saw that someone here might recommend, that is straight up around 350$, and would be better OOTB than the above combos.

Input is greatly appreciated.

thank yu


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## Garage Guy (Feb 13, 2010)

*Starter saw*

Before recommending a saw, I think it really depends on the size of the projects you plan to build. The table saw tends to be the focal point of the workshop. If you are going make small things, such as boxes, candle stick and things generally requiring a cut under 4', you can get by with a table top saw. If you plan to make bigger progects such as book cases, desks, & furniture, requiring larger boards. I would recommend watching Craigs List, ads in your local paper, or waiting until you have a little more cash to purchase a contractors saw or cabinet saw. Be careful not to buy something too old. You still need to be able to get parts & things loosen up over the years. 

I moved up from a Sears 10" table top (on a stand) to Ridgid's TS3650. Best tool I ever purchased. Love the weight & length of fence. Easy to change out the blades & move around the shop.

Of course, it also depends on how much space you have available. It's a pretty big differnce.

May not be the answer you are looking for, but I hope it helps:smile:


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Yes I forgot to include these details.

Since im new to woodworking I'm going to try my hand a little at everything, including furniture and small boxes.

The ryobi bt300 is not table top saw from what I hear, it is a stand-alone unit. 

I have been watching craigslist for a week or two now, and this is the best ive come across so far in my price range - and I need the saw now for projects.

thanks for your input



Garage Guy said:


> Before recommending a saw, I think it really depends on the size of the projects you plan to build. The table saw tends to be the focal point of the workshop. If you are going make small things, such as boxes, candle stick and things generally requiring a cut under 4', you can get by with a table top saw. If you plan to make bigger progects such as book cases, desks, & furniture, requiring larger boards. I would recommend watching Craigs List, ads in your local paper, or waiting until you have a little more cash to purchase a contractors saw or cabinet saw. Be careful not to buy something too old. You still need to be able to get parts & things loosen up over the years.
> 
> I moved up from a Sears 10" table top (on a stand) to Ridgid's TS3650. Best tool I ever purchased. Love the weight & length of fence. Easy to change out the blades & move around the shop.
> 
> ...


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

A standard full size cast iron (or granite top) contractor or hybrid saw with a belt drive induction motor will have several advantages over the smaller direct drive saw, if you've got the space. The added mass and stability is safer, as is the extra operating room in front of the blade. Most aftermarket fences and accessories are made to fit the standard size saws too. Parts like wings and motors are often interchangeable, so these are feasible to fix and easy to make upgrades to as you go. They're big enough and powerful to do the vast majority of what you'll encounter as a hobbyist, so you're less likely to outgrow the saw anytime soon. Most full size new saws start at ~ $400 on sale (Craftsman 21833, Ridgid R4512, Porter Cable PCB270TS, Hitachi C10FL, Delta 36-980. Sometimes clearance prices can drop them a bit further. These are worth stretching the budget for IMO, especially if they drop into the low $400s during the Christmas shopping season. It's common to find good saws of this type on the used market well within your price range...the older Emerson and Ryobi made Craftsman and Ridgid saws were very popular. There are many great choices of this style saw from Delta, Jet, Grizzly, Bridgewood, Woodtek, General International, Powermatic, Rockwell and others. 

Ie:









I'd recommend skipping the common benchtop direct drive type saws in this price range ...Craftsman, Ryobi, Skil, B&D, Tradesman, and others...it's more a matter of size, build quality, maintainability, and performance than brand name. If you've got to say with a small portable saw, the better jobsite saws from Bosch, Ridgid, DeWalt, Makita, and Porter Cable are a step up in quality, but still give up several aspects to the full size saws. It's unlikely that you'll be able to fit an aftermarket fence to a smaller portable saw, and you may even find that the miter slots are not a standard size.

The BT3000 is sort of a compact saw with legs, and has some unique features. It has a large following, but is not for everyone. The BT3100 was a more recent successor to this saw, and there's also a current model 21829 with a Craftsman nameplate (still made by Ryobi). If it's in great shape with some nice extras, $200 might be a fair price, but it's not a super bargain either. A website called BT3Central.com is dedicated to this style of saw, and they'll have answers to just about all your questions should choose to pursue this route. 

Setup and blade selection are huge factors in how any saw performs, so be fussy with both. Good luck!


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

Edit: Space wise, I have a full sized garage available to me. 

Thank you for the response.

Perhaps I will consider a full size saw then..

but after googling some of the saws you are talking about, they are all in a $650+ range..not ~400..



knotscott said:


> A standard full size cast iron (or granite top) contractor or hybrid saw with a belt drive induction motor will have several advantages over the smaller direct drive saw, if you've got the space. The added mass and stability is safer, as is the extra operating room in front of the blade. Most aftermarket fences and accessories are made to fit the standard size saws too. Parts like wings and motors are often interchangeable, so these are feasible to fix and easy to make upgrades to as you go. They're big enough and powerful to do the vast majority of what you'll encounter as a hobbyist, so you're less likely to outgrow the saw anytime soon. Most full size new saws start at ~ $400 on sale (Craftsman 21833, Ridgid R4512, Porter Cable PCB270TS, Hitachi C10FL, Delta 36-980. Sometimes clearance prices can drop them a bit further. These are worth stretching the budget for IMO, especially if they drop into the low $400s during the Christmas shopping season. It's common to find good saws of this type on the used market well within your price range...the older Emerson and Ryobi made Craftsman and Ridgid saws were very popular. There are many great choices of this style saw from Delta, Jet, Grizzly, Bridgewood, Woodtek, General International, Powermatic, Rockwell and others.
> 
> Ie:
> 
> ...


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

I can pick this up today for $315

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/tls/2062351081.html

It has a really good fence on it from what I hear, and this older model (late 70s) rockwell I hear is a good table saw and very sturdy.

Does this look like a good deal? Since its an older saw, what should I look for when I look at it.

Ill need a new blade, and recommendations on a good general purpose ripping blade for this?

thanks


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree with Knotscott and would add that most of the saws he talked about would be worth the extra money even if you have to wait a little longer. They are much better saws quality wise. Christmas is around the corner and Christmas sales will help if your patient. Craig's list may also have some of the types of saws he mentioned.

Maybe Santa will bring you one as long as you stay off the naughty list. Remember he's checking it twice.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Definitely a nice fence and a good saw if it's in good working condition. Much better than the new benchtops in the range. $360 is a bit high IMO, but he seems willing to deal. Maybe tell him you're on a tight budget and offer $275-$300, or ask what he'll take (in case he'll take less). Worth a look!

A saw like that will have an easier time spinning a 3/32" thin kerf blade (0.091 - 0.106"). It's hard to go wrong with something like the Freud Diablo D1040 40T, or the D1050 50T...great bang for the buck at $30-$40. The Ridgid R1050C is also made by Freud (~ $40). The CMT P10050 and DeWalt DW7150PT are similar. The Freud Industrial LU86 or LU83 are very similar to the Diablo line but with thicker carbide. A blade like the Infinity Combomax Lite (010-150) is a step up, as is the Forrest WWII TK or Ridge Carbide TS2000 TK....$60-$100.


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## nijabhaava (Oct 21, 2010)

hes saying I can have it for 315.

What should I look for when checking it out? He says it works fine.




knotscott said:


> Definitely a nice fence and a good saw if it's in good working condition. Much better than the new benchtops in the range. $360 is a bit high IMO, but he seems willing to deal. Maybe tell him you're on a tight budget and offer $275-$300, or ask what he'll take (in case he'll take less). Worth a look!
> 
> A saw like that will have an easier time spinning a 3/32" thin kerf blade (0.091 - 0.106"). It's hard to go wrong with something like the Freud Diablo D1040 40T, or the D1050 50T...great bang for the buck at $30-$40. The Ridgid R1050C is also made by Freud (~ $40). The CMT P10050 and DeWalt DW7150PT are similar. The Freud Industrial LU86 or LU83 are very similar to the Diablo line but with thicker carbide. A blade like the Infinity Combomax Lite (010-150) is a step up, as is the Forrest WWII TK or Ridge Carbide TS2000 TK....$60-$100.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The general overall condition can be a good indicator of how it was taken care of. Heavy rust and obvious signs of neglect are not a good sign. Signs of normal use are to be expected....dings and scratches won't hurt much. Run the saw and listen for unusual noises, grinding, or squealing of bearings. The saw should run smoothly with very little vibration or runout from the blade. Unplug the saw and turn the blade by hand...it should be just about silent...grinding noises are an indication of a bad bearing...that's replaceable, and not a show stopper, but should be figured into the price. 

Check the basic functions of the fence and the handwheels. The fence can be waxed if it doesn't glide as easily as it should, and the alignment is easily adjustable...just check for obvious problems, breakage, etc., and check that the fence is straight. You can check the table top for flatness with a straight edge if you like, but I don't get too hung up about that...sometimes I think people get a little carried away with "flat". It's wood, not precision metal work, and your wood is likely to move more than you might think on any given day. It'd take a pretty significant deviation from flat to effect the cut (depending on where the deviation is). Wings can be shimmed if necessary, so no big deal if there's a minor dip in the wings, or if the seem doesn't mate perfectly. Make sure there are no breaks or cracks in the cast iron. The belt is easily and reasonably replaceable....a good idea for a new saw owner anyway. Ask if the blade guard, blades, dado, miter gauge, and any inserts are included. 

Good luck and please let us know what you find. :thumbsup:


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I own the Ryobi BT3100, and it is an excellent saw FOR WHAT IT IS. A hobbyist level machine. This is NOT a production cabinet saw by any measure... These saws are designed to be VERY accurate, and easy to use, with good safety features (riving knife etc...), but there are compromises (Universal motor, aluminum top). 

The rip fence and sliding miter table on these saws are both excellent, and when set up right, VERY accurate... I have 2 miter slot additions on mine, and although some say you can't align the miter slot accessory to the blade, I did without any trouble... 

I spent $200.00 for mine, with a TON of accessories, wide table kit, router kit, dado inserts, stack of extra throat plates, Shark Guard etc... 

If I had your $350.00 budget, I would probably keep an eye out for a good condition, but needs cleaning and a new fence old Unisaw with 220V single phase... There There are plenty, and while good clean restored models run for about $1000.00, good restorable, just need cleaning and paint models can be had often for under your $350.00 price tag...

For what it's worth. An older Uni would be a hard sell to me. I REALLY like the riving knife, and although I want a cast iron topped saw, I am not willing to give up the riving knife...

There are NO current Ryobi models that I would recommend to anyone. The BTS21 is okay, but I would feel better about recommending a used BT3000 or BT3100 for the same money...


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