# Workbench Drawers



## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

I am designing a wall mounted workbench that will have a very large open storage area underneath and I am looking at options for how to mount drawers. I am going to be very limited in terms of how I can frame openings for the drawers since the idea is to have minimal framing members for this bench. 

As a result I am considering constructing some real simple "U" shaped frames out of plywood and attaching them upside-down to the underside of the benchtop frame. I'll mount slides in these frames and attach my drawers that way. The drawers will be about 24 inches deep or so. Any problems or issues doing it this way that I should be concerned about?

Thanks,
Tom


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

No you should be good with that, but if you get movement on the sides you may need to put a bottom even if you use 1/4 plywood. I would however suggest you use heavy duty full extension slides. They carry 100 lbs have ball bearing and extend all the way out. Home Depot carries the 24" slides for 20.00.so Are you finished with the frame and top? I know there was some debate on what method you should use in your design.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

rrbrown said:


> No you should be good with that. I would however suggest you use heavy duty full extension slides. They carry 100 lbs have ball bearing and extend all the way out. Home Depot carries the 24" slides for 20.00.so Are you finished with the frame and top? I know there was some debate on what method you should use in your design.


Hi Richard.

Thank you very much......

I think for the top I am going to do a laminated beam (2-2X4's and a 3/4 peice of plywood sandwiched in between) for the front horizontal frame member. I think that combined with the rear horizontal support member being lag bolted to the wall studs and a quasi-torsion box for the table top frame should keep me pretty solid....I hope.....lol


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I edited my post you may have missed the chang. You should put a 1/4" bootom to lock the sides in place for those drawers. As a U the sides are proned for movement, the 1/4" plywood will be enough to stop that and not use much room. hopefully you weren't cutting it that close.:laughing:

Seems like you used almost everyones Idea. :laughing:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Well I need to stop chatting and start working, heading outside to work in shop.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

rrbrown said:


> I edited my post you may have missed the chang. You should put a 1/4" bootom to lock the sides in place for those drawers. As a U the sides are proned for movement, the 1/4" plywood will be enough to stop that and not use much room. hopefully you weren't cutting it that close.:laughing:
> 
> Seems like you used almost everyones Idea. :laughing:


LOL......yes I really try to listen and make the best use of as much advice as possible. Tha's what I love about this site. people are so knowledgeable and willing to help. 

That's a great idea about the 1/4 plywood peice to "join" the "U" sides from the bottom edges. I was actually thinking about just screwing the faces together in a couple strategic places but your idea would work well.


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## Willie T (Feb 1, 2009)

One observation. As drawn, you will lose the thickness of your "U" shaped mount (your drawers will be that much lower)

You can notch the fronts and backs for the 2 x 4's, and regain that lost drawer height. Instead of drilling the "U"s up into the edges of the 2 x 4's, you would then drill through the faces of the 2 x 4's... perhaps into blocks mounted on the tops of the "U"s, so you could avoid screwing into end grain.

You're already down 3- 1/2" with the drawers because of the 2 x 4's... why lose another 3/4"?

(I forgot to include some top mounted blocks to screw into, but you get the idea.)


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Willie T said:


> One observation. As drawn, you will lose the thickness of your "U" shaped mount (your drawers will be that much lower)
> 
> You can notch the fronts and backs for the 2 x 4's, and regain that lost drawer height. Instead of drilling the "U"s up into the edges of the 2 x 4's, you would then drill through the faces of the 2 x 4's... perhaps into blocks mounted on the tops of the "U"s, so you could avoid screwing into end grain.
> 
> You're already down 3- 1/2" with the drawers because of the 2 x 4's... why lose another 3/4"?


Hello sir....

I like the way you think. I actually factored that thickness into to my overall plan for the overall height of the bench. I am actually going to be milling the 2X4's form the whole frame to a final dimension of 3.25 X 1.25. 

When it's all said and done i may just go with a 5 inch deep drawer instead of a 6 incher. But either way the main thing is that I get 25 inches of open height on the lower shelf which i think I'll get. I am going to rip the front horizontal frame member on the floor at 2.5 inches and recess the plywood deck for the bottom shelf so that it sits flush with that frame member to gain some more open height. 

Going through all kinds of contortions to make sure this thing is only 39 inches in height. I just like that working height and everything is now being driven from that.......ugh......lol ....i created my own little monster here.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Willie T said:


> One observation. As drawn, you will lose the thickness of your "U" shaped mount (your drawers will be that much lower)
> 
> You can notch the fronts and backs for the 2 x 4's, and regain that lost drawer height. Instead of drilling the "U"s up into the edges of the 2 x 4's, you would then drill through the faces of the 2 x 4's... perhaps into blocks mounted on the tops of the "U"s, so you could avoid screwing into end grain.
> 
> You're already down 3- 1/2" with the drawers because of the 2 x 4's... why lose another 3/4"?


once again you are THE MAN with sketchup.......lol

This will be wall mounted so I guess I'd have to fasten the drawer frames ahead of time so i could fasten the cleat to the back of the faces of the frame since that will get lagged into the wall studs......

oh no wait...never mind.......duh..........the benchtop won't be on yet so I can drill drill from the inside surface of the cleat or block out into the back horizontal framing member that is going to be lagged into the wall.........sometimes I amaze myself....lol


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

okay one more question......I am going to be joining these "U" shaped drawer frames with rabbets. Is it structurally better to make the rabbets on the horizontal member or in the two side members? I assume these drawers will be pretty full so a lot of "down-pulling" (old engineering term....lol) stress on these joints.......


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## Willie T (Feb 1, 2009)

First of all, I drew my little example wrong. I had the sides mounting under the upper piece. All wrong. The sides should mount to the edges of the top, preferably with a dado, 1/2" of original left above the dado, but at least with screws in shear if you don't dado.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

*Like This?????*



Willie T said:


> First of all, I drew my little example wrong. I had the sides mounting under the upper piece. All wrong. The sides should mount to the edges of the top, preferably with a dado, 1/2" of original left above the dado, but at least with screws in shear if you don't dado.


So essentially this.......


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

I would just use the glue and screw method with the screws in shear like Willie said. I don't see any added strength with a dado or rabbet joint in this case. If you do use a rbet joint I would pre drill and put a couple of screws in from the sides. Its not just the weight its the movement of the weight that I see causing a problem later on in life.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

rrbrown said:


> I would just use the glue and screw method with the screws in shear like Willie said. I don't see any added strength with a dado or rabbet joint in this case. If you do use a rbet joint I would pre drill and put a couple of screws in from the sides. Its not just the weight its the movement of the weight that I see causing a problem later on in life.


can you explain the term "in shear"......not sure what that means.......


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

In shear the break point is harder pulling down when it is screwed in from the side.


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## Willie T (Feb 1, 2009)

Tom5151 said:


> So essentially this.......


Just to get us all on the same page...:smile:


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Willie T said:


> Just to get us all on the same page...:smile:


 
yes....that I get...the difference between a rabbet and a dado....i was thinking about rabbeting the U shaped frame but perhaps you guys have changed my mind


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Nothing personal Tom but maybe you should have just asked us what we wanted you to do in th first place. Since you keep letting us chang your mind. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

rrbrown said:


> Nothing personal Tom but maybe you should have just asked us what we wanted you to do in th first place. Since you keep letting us chang your mind. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


LOL...true.......i just have so little experience that I am not always sure what I am planning to do will actually work.....thanks for all the help....:thumbsup:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I can't enter the sketchup war here cause I am sketchupless. Anyway, here are my two pennies worth, well maybe...one penny.

The down sides for the drawers on the end can be butt glued and screwed from the side, like suggested...no rabbets. The center leg/legs can be butt glued and screwed from the top as suggested. What I do is to position the pieces with a couple of brad nails to keep them from sliding around. Then I pilot and countersink 2" - 2 1/4" coarse thread screws. When they are just bumped tight, and not overdriven, they will provide more than adequate shear strength horizontally. As for downward pulling forces, just constant weight will not break them loose, especially with the glue in there.

I would put a 1/4" back on the assembly before hanging it as that would help keep it from racking. I don't think I would put a 1/4" bottom on it as that would be a dust/small parts collector. You could just put a cross rail of just about any size across the bottom front just to hold the pieces from moving. If space is a question, you could use an aluminum bar stock 1/8" x 1/2", that HD carries...it's cheap. Just drill and countersink holes at the attachment points. This type of bracing doesn't have to be rocket science. As for the back, the 1/4" back would keep the pieces from moving. 

You can find good pricing on full extension slides *here*.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank you gentlemen. I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to answer all of my goofy rookie questions and provide you expert advice. 

My fear is always that i will go off half-cocked with my own uneducated, uninformed ideas, get the thing all built and assembled and then realize i wasted my time and materials because it won't work or it isn't strong enough or built properly, etc. 

But your input has given me the expertise I need and ideas i need to make sure that I build it right the first time and enjoy it for a long time to come...

Thanks guys....:thumbsup:


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Hey Cabinetman those are some good prices. I'm guessing the customer service and stuf or good or you wouldn't recommend them. I purchased 9 set at 19.95 each so this site would have saved me a small fortune. Atleast I have it now. Thanks. I like the idea of the back and the alum flatbar for the front bottom also.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> I can't enter the sketchup war here cause I am sketchupless. Anyway, here are my two pennies worth, well maybe...one penny.
> 
> The down sides for the drawers on the end can be butt glued and screwed from the side, like suggested...no rabbets. The center leg/legs can be butt glued and screwed from the top as suggested. What I do is to position the pieces with a couple of brad nails to keep them from sliding around. Then I pilot and countersink 2" - 2 1/4" coarse thread screws. When they are just bumped tight, and not overdriven, they will provide more than adequate shear strength horizontally. As for downward pulling forces, just constant weight will not break them loose, especially with the glue in there.
> 
> ...


those are GREAT prices and that is a GREAT idea. I was thinking about building three individual "U" shapes frames and attaching them to the frame individually. But essentially I can just build one long one with the 2 intermediate legs and put a back across the whole thing, put a thin rail underneath the whole span and attach it to the bench frame as one whole unit........see that's why I love this place. I would have never thought of that........Thank you:thumbsup:


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