# Does type of wood matter?



## yepitswood (Oct 30, 2014)

I really like this type of wood and its finish:
Dresser:








Dining room table:








Questions:
1. Can any old wood furniture (such as oak) be stained to achieve this desired effect? Or is there a special type of wood being used in these pictures?
2. Which type of wood do you reckon this is? Oak? Mesquite? I’m totally lost.
3. Which color would you say it is?
Thanks, a bunch. I’m new to woodworking and I’m starting with small projects.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

That wood looks like mahogany or walnut to me. While it's possible to stain oak a mahogany color, it still won't look exactly like mahogany because oak has a different texture than mahogany.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The pictures are a bit blurry but the wood looks like honduras mahogany to me. The skirt on the table appears to be the natural color of the wood where the top appears to be stained. Anyway you would have a very hard time making oak look like that. You would have to select some very straight grain wood and then use a grain filler to eliminate the texture of the wood when you finish it. It still wouldn't look the same but you could get close. It would be much easier to use luan. It's a type of mahogany anyway, in fact it is also known as Philippine mahogany. Both Philippine and Honduras mahogany is also usually grain filled. If you live near a large city Honduras mahogany isn't that hard to find or forbiddingly expensive to buy. The wood is probably about 40% more expensive than oak.


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## yepitswood (Oct 30, 2014)

Quickstep said:


> That wood looks like mahogany or walnut to me. While it's possible to stain oak a mahogany color, it still won't look exactly like mahogany because oak has a different texture than mahogany.


I just looked up Honduras mahogany and wow! Its very nice looking although most furniture seem to be a lot lighter than the picture I posted. I found some darker so maybe it just depends on how the mahogany is stained?



Steve Neul said:


> The pictures are a bit blurry but the wood looks like honduras mahogany to me. The skirt on the table appears to be the natural color of the wood where the top appears to be stained. Anyway you would have a very hard time making oak look like that. You would have to select some very straight grain wood and then use a grain filler to eliminate the texture of the wood when you finish it. It still wouldn't look the same but you could get close. It would be much easier to use luan. It's a type of mahogany anyway, in fact it is also known as Philippine mahogany. Both Philippine and Honduras mahogany is also usually grain filled. If you live near a large city Honduras mahogany isn't that hard to find or forbiddingly expensive to buy. The wood is probably about 40% more expensive than oak.


Sorry for the small pictures. They are the best I could find. Thanks for those tips about grain filling and Luan. :yes:


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

The table top is Mahogany, and the table apron is maple.

You can pick a wood that has similar grain patterens and use it to simulate the same look, but the tricky part like always is matching the color. Thats where you can play around with scrap pieces until you get the color you want.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The color of most mahogany furniture is largely artificial. It's normally darker and redder than the furniture in the pictures. With any type of wood the natural color can vary a great deal but most of it looks like this before stained. 

Another thought, if you are having trouble getting mahogany or the cost is too much home depot sells a plywood called sandeply which has a similar mahogany look. It's completely blonde in color so you would have to stain it to get the look you want. For the solid wood you could use alder. One of the characteristics of alder is to be able to stain it to look like other woods. Just select a wood with some straight grain.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

He can also simply use maple. Use a preconditioner, scuff sand, then apply a natural cherry dye stain.

General Finishes:
2 parts cinnamon
1 part light brown

I can also give you the formula in trans tint dyes.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Steve Neul said:


> Another thought, if you are having trouble getting mahogany or the cost is too much home depot sells a plywood called sandeply which has a similar mahogany look. It's completely blonde in color so you would have to stain it to get the look you want. For the solid wood you could use alder. One of the characteristics of alder is to be able to stain it to look like other woods. Just select a wood with some straight grain.


Alder doesn't have the grain anywhere close to mahogany, though. It's much closer to a knotty cherry, in my experience. 

Personally, I am of the mindset that believes if you want to make wood look like a certain kind, to just buy that kind of wood. It's likely going to be more expensive, but it will save you loads of time and you don't run the risk of it not turning out quite like you planned. I don't care for stained wood, usually. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using woodworkingtalk.com mobile app


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

JMartel said:


> Alder doesn't have the grain anywhere close to mahogany, though. It's much closer to a knotty cherry, in my experience.
> 
> Personally, I am of the mindset that believes if you want to make wood look like a certain kind, to just buy that kind of wood. It's likely going to be more expensive, but it will save you loads of time and you don't run the risk of it not turning out quite like you planned. I don't care for stained wood, usually.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using woodworkingtalk.com mobile app


The only real way he's going to get that look is to use mahogany however if a straight grain alder was used it could have a resemblance to mahogany that has been grain filled. Alder is often used by furniture companies as a secondary wood with either cherry, walnut or mahogany because it can be stained to look like different kinds of wood. Mahogany isn't available everywhere so I was trying to give him some other options.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> The only real way he's going to get that look is to use mahogany however if a straight grain alder was used it could have a resemblance to mahogany that has been grain filled. Alder is often used by furniture companies as a secondary wood with either cherry, walnut or mahogany because it can be stained to look like different kinds of wood. Mahogany isn't available everywhere so I was trying to give him some other options.


Unfortunately, most furniture company's these days use maple, popular, or rubberwood as the secondary woods.

He can use a straight grain cherry (alder is cheaper) and apply the stain formula I suggested above, but reduce it 1:1. If he uses maple, he can apply it straight. There is a straight grain maple out there, but not as close as mahogany is.


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## yepitswood (Oct 30, 2014)

RandyReed said:


> The table top is Mahogany, and the table apron is maple.
> 
> You can pick a wood that has similar grain patterens and use it to simulate the same look, but the tricky part like always is matching the color. Thats where you can play around with scrap pieces until you get the color you want.


Never thought about using different types of woods for a project. Now I'm thinking it makes it all the better, and shows a lot of thought being put into projects.

I will definitely be experimenting on scrap pieces, now that you've mentioned it. You all are giving me *confidence* to try woodworking some small projects. I hope I can work my way up to tables and dressers soon.



Steve Neul said:


> The color of most mahogany furniture is largely artificial. It's normally darker and redder than the furniture in the pictures. With any type of wood the natural color can vary a great deal but most of it looks like this before stained.
> 
> Another thought, if you are having trouble getting mahogany or the cost is too much home depot sells a plywood called sandeply which has a similar mahogany look. It's completely blonde in color so you would have to stain it to get the look you want. For the solid wood you could use alder. One of the characteristics of alder is to be able to stain it to look like other woods. Just select a wood with some straight grain.


Thanks for confirming that it was the type of stain. Time for me to experiment. I really appreciate the low cost options you've been giving, especially for a first timer.



RandyReed said:


> He can also simply use maple. Use a preconditioner, scuff sand, then apply a natural cherry dye stain.
> 
> General Finishes:
> 2 parts cinnamon
> ...


I bookmarked trans tint dye's homepage. Never heard of them but their dyes look good.

http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/transtint-liquid-dyes/

Which ones would you recommend? I can also just experiment.



JMartel said:


> Alder doesn't have the grain anywhere close to mahogany, though. It's much closer to a knotty cherry, in my experience.
> 
> Personally, I am of the mindset that believes if you want to make wood look like a certain kind, to just buy that kind of wood. It's likely going to be more expensive, but it will save you loads of time and you don't run the risk of it not turning out quite like you planned. I don't care for stained wood, usually.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using woodworkingtalk.com mobile app


Mahogany is nice, ain't it? Searching google images I'm finding some things a bit closer to what I'm looking for. Also found this handy chart:










From 2003, so I don't expect the prices to be the same. :thumbdown:

Source:
http://www.americanwoodworker.com/blogs/shop/archive/2010/01/29/mahogany-and-its-look-alikes.aspx

Thanks for getting me started, fellas!


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

For a natural cherry stain using trans tint:
1 part reddish brown
5 parts water
1/2 part golden brown
1/2 part honey amber

Again, since its maple, you will need to apply a preconditioner to the maple first, scuff sand, then apply an even coat of the mixture above and it should be close to the picture of the table you posted.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Mohawk Finishing Products has a pre-packaged cherry stain however for the look in the picture above I think it would use their brown mahogany stain. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=178

Dye stains are better sprayed on at low pressure. Dyes are also not prone to blotch so unless they are applied dripping wet a wood conditioner isn't necessary.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Mohawk Finishing Products has a pre-packaged cherry stain however for the look in the picture above I think it would use their brown mahogany stain. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=178
> 
> Dye stains are better sprayed on at low pressure. Dyes are also not prone to blotch so unless they are applied dripping wet a wood conditioner isn't necessary.


I dont think the brown mahogany stain will be warm enough on a whiter wood like maple......if he went that route.

Those colors are hard to go by, even the medium walnut looks close, but I dont think it will be right on maple either, it will more than likely be too cool as well. 

Those are also penetrating stains. If you use a preconditioner first, they tend to try and lay up on the wood because they cant penetrate the wood because of the preconditioner. If you apply them on an ash for instance, no preconditioner, the penetrating stain will rupture the wood and give the wood alot of ticking. In the picture, the color is clean looking.

Dye stains are the way to go to get to that color and look.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RandyReed said:


> I dont think the brown mahogany stain will be warm enough on a whiter wood like maple......if he went that route.
> 
> Those colors are hard to go by, even the medium walnut looks close, but I dont think it will be right on maple either, it will more than likely be too cool as well.
> 
> ...


The brown mahogany I recommended was really for a mahogany or alder. It would work on maple with multiple coats however yepitswood hasn't said he is going with maple.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> The brown mahogany I recommended was really for a mahogany or alder. It would work on maple with multiple coats however yepitswood hasn't said he is going with maple.


True.

But it will still not look like that table using a penetrating stain because it will bust the wood too much on mahogany and especially alder. I would go with dyes myself using mostly acetone to achieve that clean look.....but then again I go with dyes on almost everything. :thumbsup:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RandyReed said:


> True.
> 
> But it will still not look like that table using a penetrating stain because it will bust the wood too much on mahogany and especially alder. I would go with dyes myself using mostly acetone to achieve that clean look.....but then again I go with dyes on almost everything. :thumbsup:


The Mohawk Ultra Penetrating Stain is an alcohol based aniline dye stain.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> The Mohawk Ultra Penetrating Stain is an alcohol based aniline dye stain.


?????

No, it contains petroleum distillates such as oil resins with propanol which allows it to penetrate into the wood. Theres no alcohol in it. Its on the "oily" side. 

The only dye stains that will penetrate wood either contain mostly water or ethanol.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RandyReed said:


> ?????
> 
> No, it contains petroleum distillates such as oil resins with propanol which allows it to penetrate into the wood. Theres no alcohol in it. Its on the "oily" side.
> 
> The only dye stains that will penetrate wood either contain mostly water or ethanol.


This is a product I use all the time. It is cut with alcohol. You can clearly smell the denatured alcohol in it. I don't see how there can be an oil in it, you can topcoat over it within a couple minutes or even add it to lacquers as a toner.


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

Yepitswood, those lower end range of prices is what I pay. $6ish/bdft depending on specific wood type. Walnut is not any cheaper for instance. 

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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> This is a product I use all the time. It is cut with alcohol. You can clearly smell the denatured alcohol in it. I don't see how there can be an oil in it, you can topcoat over it within a couple minutes or even add it to lacquers as a toner.


Steve, are you sure your talking about a penetrating stain??? I use it too, but I never used alcohol to cut a penetrating stain. Penetrating stains are oil based products. I dont see where alcohol is recommended:

Copy and Pasted............

Mohawk Finishing Products
Division of RPM Wood Finishes Group, Inc.

Product Data Sheet

Penetrating Oil Stain

Specifications:

Directions: Surface must be clean, dry and wax-free. Finish sand with 150 to 180 grit paper for desired result. Remove sanding dust with tack cloth or vacuum. Penetrating Oil Stain may be brushed, wiped or spray applied (approximately 30-35 psi). Stain should be applied with the grain in a wet uniform consistency. Allow the stain to penetrate; then wipe off excess stain with a lint free cloth. *Penetrating Oil Stain can be reduced with M650-004 Mohawk Naphtha or M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits to adjust color strength. *Use M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits for slower dry and better workability if needed. Allow stain to dry 1 – 2 hours before sealing or topcoating. Clean up with M650-9008 Mohawk Clean Up Solvent, M650-004 Mohawk Naphtha or M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits.

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse_tech.asp?ictnbr=181

Thats also why I said earlier that a washcoat sealer applied first will not allow a penetraing stain to work properly.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RandyReed said:


> Steve, are you sure your talking about a penetrating stain??? I use it too, but I never used alcohol to cut a penetrating stain. Penetrating stains are oil based products. I dont see where alcohol is recommended:
> 
> Copy and Pasted............
> 
> ...


No Randy, the ultra penetrating stain is a NGR stain. It's much the same product Star Finishing Products sold as No Sand Stain. It's advertised as a dye. Product Overview

A truly new dye stain that promises superior transparent qualities found only in dye stains and excellent lightfastness. Will not bleed into top coat finishes. May be brushed, wiped or sprayed directly on wood or mixed in lacquer for toning. Colors may be intermixed to acquire additional shades. Mohawk's Ultra™ Penetrating Stain offers the user the best combined characteristics of water, alcohol, or lacquer type dyes. Custom match colors are also available with minimum order of 5 gallons. Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Reducer and Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Retarder are available.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> No Randy, the ultra penetrating stain is a NGR stain. It's much the same product Star Finishing Products sold as No Sand Stain. It's advertised as a dye. Product Overview
> 
> A truly new dye stain that promises superior transparent qualities found only in dye stains and excellent lightfastness. Will not bleed into top coat finishes. May be brushed, wiped or sprayed directly on wood or mixed in lacquer for toning. Colors may be intermixed to acquire additional shades. Mohawk's Ultra™ Penetrating Stain offers the user the best combined characteristics of water, alcohol, or lacquer type dyes. Custom match colors are also available with minimum order of 5 gallons. Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Reducer and Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Retarder are available.


Ah, I didnt think we was talking about the same product! :yes:

The only reason the ultra is called a penetrating stain is because its main solvent is ethanol and contains water, which as I said earlier, will bust the grain and not have the clean look that the picture has posted by the OP. 

This "penetrating stain" will not penetrate as it should if applied directly over a clear coat of any kind. It will act just like a pad stain when applied on any preconditioner, washcoat, or sealer. 

A true dye stain is the way to go to get that look.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

RandyReed said:


> Ah, I didnt think we was talking about the same product! :yes:
> 
> The only reason the ultra is called a penetrating stain is because its main solvent is ethanol and contains water, which as I said earlier, will bust the grain and not have the clean look that the picture has posted by the OP.
> 
> ...


Randy, the ultra penetrating stain will penetrate the wood and give the appearance in the pictures. It penetrates the wood so well you can't wash very much of it off if you get the wrong color. It colors like ink. I used to refinish a lot of mahogany furniture and used the stain for the color. Most of the oil stains I attempted to use at the time gave the wood a purple look to it so I used the dye instead. The only time I put this stain over a clear coat is for use as a toner.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> Randy, the ultra penetrating stain will penetrate the wood and give the appearance in the pictures. It penetrates the wood so well you can't wash very much of it off if you get the wrong color. It colors like ink. I used to refinish a lot of mahogany furniture and used the stain for the color. Most of the oil stains I attempted to use at the time gave the wood a purple look to it so I used the dye instead. The only time I put this stain over a clear coat is for use as a toner.


Yes, I know it will penetrate the wood, but the penetrating stain will also tick the grain. The table top in the picture has no grain ticking. If you spray that penetrating stain on one end and spray an acetone based dye stain on the other, you will see what Im talking about. It will do it especially bad on mahogany. You can also spray an acetone based dye stain on maple and it will not blotch the wood so there is no need to apply a preconditioner. Thats how I apply stains on maple for factories that do not want or can not precondition the wood before being ran on their finishing line.

Your right about spraying that penetrating stain over a wood that has a clear coat or a washcoat already applied to it as it would be similar to a toner look. No one should spray a penetrating stain over a sealed wood as it would be defeating the purpose of using a penetrating stain.


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