# Re-finishing table with leaves that have aged differently



## slantedview (Jan 9, 2011)

I recently acquired a Danish teak dining table that I'd like to refinish since the main top is a bit dry and faded compared to the leaves (see the first picture). Previously I refinished a similar table (with help from the good folks here) that came out very nice, but I never could get the main section to look the same as the leaves (see the second picture). It was always a bit more faded whereas the grain on the leaves has a lot more contrast and pops more.

Before I set out to refinish my new table, I'd like to get some input on how I can avoid the problem I had last time. Mainly, I really want the grain to pop nicely on the main section as it does on the leaves, and for the entire table to look the same. Is that possible?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What did you use to strip the finish the first time? Normally when you use a methylene chloride remover to strip the finish and then sand the wood it brings it all back pretty uniform. I assume it is veneered so you will have to be careful sanding it but it takes a certain amount of sanding to renew the wood. It helps too if you wet the wood with water to raise the grain and let dry to make the sanding more effective. Wetting it also gives you an idea what it would look like with a clear finish on it. Once you think you have it, wipe the top down with mineral spirits and see what it looks like and post a picture if you still need help. You may need to get a experienced finisher to do it for you. Sometimes you have to mix two different colors stain to even it out.


----------



## slantedview (Jan 9, 2011)

Yes, I used Jasco which contains Methylene Chloride and used the same amount for the main table top as for the leaves. I also gave the table a decent sanding, but nothing too crazy since it was veneer. After sanding and wiping with mineral spirits, the leaves were just a different color than the main section which was more faded as you can see. I assumed that nothing else could be done so I just finished it as it was (using General Finishes Arm-R-Seal, which I've been very happy with).

Aside from the color difference, what disappointed me most with my previous table was the difference in contrast - the grain on the leaves just looks much bolder than the main table top. I'd love to have a bold, contrasty grain throughout. Which brings me to my new table - if after sanding things don't look even, what should I do? More chemicals? More sanding?


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*No amount of sanding will fix it*

The sunlight has bleached out the color in the table so you'll have to stain it darker to match the leaves OR maybe you can bleach the leaves, but you wanted the grain to pop so that won't help. A wiping stain should be you answer here IF you have not yet applied a finish. As Steve suggested someone with experience may be your best approach to get a good match... where are you located?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It may be the top since it is used more than the leaves someone refinished just the top with a different more stubborn finish and you didn't get removed what was penetrated into the wood. I haven't used Jasco remover before so I can't say if that was part of the problem. It's very possible the top was finished with a catalyzed lacquer on it and what I read about the Jasco is formulated for oil based paint. I normally use Kleen Strip remover but time to time I have a piece of furniture it doesn't work on because it was done with lacquer. Then I use Stripeze remover which will work better on lacquer. There are also commercial removers available but are very strong and need much care to handle. Within a couple of seconds after getting any of it on your skin it feels like someone put a lit cigaret on you. The commercial removers I use are Kwick Kleen #125 remover which is thin as water or Kwick Kleen #345 which is a semi-paste remover. Another company is Benco #B7 which is thin and #B12 for the semi-paste remover.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Since you don't know its history, it may take some testing. If you are stripping, I would use 'Aircraft Stripper' in the blue qt can...available at HD. It isn't particular which finish it is. It's a paste, and works on lacquer, or oil based finishes. It's the strongest over the counter stripper I've used. It will curdle up the finish and you use a putty knife to scrape off. Then wipe down with lacquer thinner and rags.

If the underside of the table is the same as the top, as to wood/veneer, try small areas to see if you can get a match. If you strip, and then proceed to sand, I wouldn't wet the wood. I would start with 220x. You could try on different areas a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil (it may bring in the amber tone), and one with pure Tung oil (it may stay fairly clear, and just enhance the grain). Wipe on, wait a minute or two, and wipe off. You will start to get an indication of what it will look like. Once dry try your topcoat. Stained or oiled wood will look entirely different when the topcoat is applied.

If those areas are still way off, you may need to tone the grain with a misting spray of a dye. Here is where you may need help. You can mix dyes in alcohol, and spray light applications, and unlike oil base stains apply more to get more color. The challenge here is picking the right dye and mix configuration. An experienced finisher will still have his testing to do before it comes out near right. But, you could get lucky.


















.


----------



## slantedview (Jan 9, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> The sunlight has bleached out the color in the table so you'll have to stain it darker to match the leaves OR maybe you can bleach the leaves, but you wanted the grain to pop so that won't help. A wiping stain should be you answer here IF you have not yet applied a finish. As Steve suggested someone with experience may be your best approach to get a good match... where are you located?


What sort of wiping stain? Since it's teak I wouldn't want to alter the nice natural teak color too much. I'm in the Sacramento area, but as far as having a professional refinisher have at it, I possibly couldn't afford it.


----------



## slantedview (Jan 9, 2011)

Steve Neul said:


> It may be the top since it is used more than the leaves someone refinished just the top with a different more stubborn finish and you didn't get removed what was penetrated into the wood. I haven't used Jasco remover before so I can't say if that was part of the problem. It's very possible the top was finished with a catalyzed lacquer on it and what I read about the Jasco is formulated for oil based paint. I normally use Kleen Strip remover but time to time I have a piece of furniture it doesn't work on because it was done with lacquer. Then I use Stripeze remover which will work better on lacquer. There are also commercial removers available but are very strong and need much care to handle. Within a couple of seconds after getting any of it on your skin it feels like someone put a lit cigaret on you. The commercial removers I use are Kwick Kleen #125 remover which is thin as water or Kwick Kleen #345 which is a semi-paste remover. Another company is Benco #B7 which is thin and #B12 for the semi-paste remover.


That's good information, thanks. I'd probably stay away from the commercial stuff since I'm no pro, but I'm open to trying the others you mention. Is there any way I could determine whether my new table has a lacquer or something oil based?


----------



## slantedview (Jan 9, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Since you don't know its history, it may take some testing. If you are stripping, I would use 'Aircraft Stripper' in the blue qt can...available at HD.


This stuff?











cabinetman said:


> It isn't particular which finish it is. It's a paste, and works on lacquer, or oil based finishes. It's the strongest over the counter stripper I've used. It will curdle up the finish and you use a putty knife to scrape off. Then wipe down with lacquer thinner and rags.
> 
> If the underside of the table is the same as the top, as to wood/veneer, try small areas to see if you can get a match. If you strip, and then proceed to sand, I wouldn't wet the wood.


Can you give me some more details here? From what I recall, I used mineral spirits to clean up the surface after stripping. Do you mean you wouldn't do that or you wouldn't use mineral spirits on the table once I start sanding - or something else?



cabinetman said:


> I would start with 220x. You could try on different areas a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil (it may bring in the amber tone), and one with pure Tung oil (it may stay fairly clear, and just enhance the grain). Wipe on, wait a minute or two, and wipe off. You will start to get an indication of what it will look like. Once dry try your topcoat. Stained or oiled wood will look entirely different when the topcoat is applied.


Is there any other way to get an indication of whether things are off before I start my top coat? From what I recall last time, I could tell the pieces were off just by looking at them after sanding.



cabinetman said:


> If those areas are still way off, you may need to tone the grain with a misting spray of a dye. Here is where you may need help. You can mix dyes in alcohol, and spray light applications, and unlike oil base stains apply more to get more color. The challenge here is picking the right dye and mix configuration. An experienced finisher will still have his testing to do before it comes out near right. But, you could get lucky.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

slantedview said:


> This stuff?


Nope, that's not it. That stuff is waterbased. The 'Aircraft Stripper I was referring to is this...







http://www.sri-supplies.com/kleenstrip-aircraft-remover-1-gal-074-kle-gar343.html



slantedview said:


> Can you give me some more details here? From what I recall, I used mineral spirits to clean up the surface after stripping. Do you mean you wouldn't do that or you wouldn't use mineral spirits on the table once I start sanding - or something else?


When done stripping clean with lacquer thinner.



slantedview said:


> Is there any other way to get an indication of whether things are off before I start my top coat? From what I recall last time, I could tell the pieces were off just by looking at them after sanding.


Ultimately your final appearance would be after you apply the topcoat. That's why you should experiment.


.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

slantedview said:


> That's good information, thanks. I'd probably stay away from the commercial stuff since I'm no pro, but I'm open to trying the others you mention. Is there any way I could determine whether my new table has a lacquer or something oil based?


 Since it has been refinished before it would't be possible to tell if there is any lacquer in the wood. Anyway woodenthings might be correct that sunlight bleached the top. I just have never seen a table bleached by the sun so much you couldn't sand it new again. Perhaps someone had it sitting next to a sunny window for many years. 

If the top is really that sun bleached if I had it in my shop I would strip the top and leaves and then use bleach on the leaves only and let dry. Then sand the top and leaves and see if they are uniform. If they are you could dilute some walnut stain and stain the top and leaves and wash it off with lacquer thinner to lighten as much as possible. The stain would bring the pronounced grain back. It would take you some thinkering though. You probably would need to dilute the walnut stain but how much would take some experimenting. If it has the same wood on the underside you might practice there.


----------



## slantedview (Jan 9, 2011)

Steve Neul said:


> Since it has been refinished before it would't be possible to tell if there is any lacquer in the wood. Anyway woodenthings might be correct that sunlight bleached the top. I just have never seen a table bleached by the sun so much you couldn't sand it new again. Perhaps someone had it sitting next to a sunny window for many years.


I don't know if the new table has ever been refinished. The person I bought it from was the daughter of the original owner and mentioned that it was oiled a lot, but I have no idea what kind of oil and of course if it was a "teak oil" it could have contained all kinds of stuff.



Steve Neul said:


> If the top is really that sun bleached if I had it in my shop I would strip the top and leaves and then use bleach on the leaves only and let dry. Then sand the top and leaves and see if they are uniform. If they are you could dilute some walnut stain and stain the top and leaves and wash it off with lacquer thinner to lighten as much as possible. The stain would bring the pronounced grain back. It would take you some thinkering though. You probably would need to dilute the walnut stain but how much would take some experimenting. If it has the same wood on the underside you might practice there.


Hmm. Ok - Thanks for the idea.


----------

