# Biscuit jointing vs T & G



## mbcarpentry (Feb 19, 2015)

Hi all, newbie here and looking for some advice, I'm currently making a tv cabinet using American white oak and need some advice on joining planks together to make the top, I'm using 150mm x18mm boards and was wondering what would be the best way to join 3 boards together would biscuit jointing be strong enough or would you advise I use a tongue and groove joint. Cheers Martin.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Actually if the edges are properly jointed you don't need anything to help the joint. A tongue and groove would show from the ends. If you just want to you might put some biscuits in the joint. They don't give a substantial amount of help but they don't show either.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Like Steve said just joining the flat edges of the boards together with quality glue is as good as anything. The biscuits will help with alignment but not much else.

A quality glue will make the joint stronger than the board itself.


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## red (Sep 30, 2008)

I would biscuit them together and forget about the T&G as it will show on the ends. Biscuits will be plenty strong enough to do what you're doing. Have fun. White oak is a great wood to work with.

Red


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Well said by all. (Just had to put in my 1 cent worth)

George


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

I would use biscuits. If using a biscuit jointer it will line up the boards in your top. Be really careful with the glue as if you use a glue like Tite-Bond or simular glues the squeeze out will get into the pores of the wood and show up big time when you stain or dye the top. Using hide glue will help solve this problem as hide glue will take color.

Don


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I never use anything other than glue when gluing up panels. They do need nice clean straight edges but the glue is plenty strong otherwise.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I'll also note that I use titebond 2 glue and after sanding off the squeeze out, I've never once had a problem with staining


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

ryan50hrl said:


> I'll also note that I use titebond 2 glue and after sanding off the squeeze out, I've never once had a problem with staining


I notice that Norm on the New Yankee Workshop doesn't have that problem either but I sure do. I wipe it off with a wet rag and sand it but still it will show up when I use stain. I also have problem with the boards slipping with Tite Bond when I clamp them. Using a biscuit jointer keeps the boards from slipping.

If you have any suggestions to help me out I would appreciate your help.

Don


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't wipe the glue off, all you're doing there is forcing a bit into the pores. Glue it and let the squeeze out alone. When done drying, scrape and sand. 

Regarding the movement, are you sure your edges are a perfect 90 degrees?? Are the clamp faces parallel? What kind of clamps are you using??


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## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

If I need something to be straight (when making picnic benches with dimensioned lumber I use dowels to align them. A good bought or homemade dowel jig is simple to use, is veratile, and is cheaper than a biscuit joiner.

With planed wood I have never had a problem with glueups and each one gets better with time. Trick is more and more clamps and good flat cauls.


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## Kansas Gary (Nov 13, 2014)

hawkeye10 said:


> I notice that Norm on the New Yankee Workshop doesn't have that problem either but I sure do. I wipe it off with a wet rag and sand it but still it will show up when I use stain. I also have problem with the boards slipping with Tite Bond when I clamp them. Using a biscuit jointer keeps the boards from slipping.
> 
> If you have any suggestions to help me out I would appreciate your help.
> 
> Don


Don: Next time try this little tip to keep your boards from slipping..After you spread the glue on the edge of the board take a salt shaker and sprinkle just a little bit of salt on the glue. Not a whole lot just a tad will do. Try is on some scraps. I have found it works for me and I haven't had any failures on my glue lines using this method...........Gary


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

Kansas Gary said:


> Don: Next time try this little tip to keep your boards from slipping..After you spread the glue on the edge of the board take a salt shaker and sprinkle just a little bit of salt on the glue. Not a whole lot just a tad will do. Try is on some scraps. I have found it works for me and I haven't had any failures on my glue lines using this method...........Gary


Thanks Gary that is a great idea. I can see how that would work.

Don


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Sometimes it is better to work on stages, glue two board together, then when dry glue last board to first two. I you are working with four boards glue in pairs then then glue pairs together.

Use a caul to keep the boards lined up.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

FWIW you can do a blind T&G, just or maybe it would be better referred to as a really long mortise? 

worst part about biscuits is that it generally requires a special tool. Where others can be done with just a router bit.


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## mbcarpentry (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks for the replies, I will using a resin glue as its good quality and also I think I will use biscuits just to aid with lining up, once again cheers and what a great forum.


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## Woody39 (Jul 8, 2012)

Biscuits are a quick and easy way to ensure that one surface of two or more boards will be perfectly aligned. However, if slipping along the length is an issue (you may want the ends to stay perfectly aligned lengthwise) then using grains of salt is one solution. One of the things I make is a mantle clock and in assembling the mitered base assembly to the cabinet front and sides, it is really tricky to prevent the base from moving around. A trick I came up with is to drive 4 or 5 small brads into the base assembly and then clip of the heads of the brads as close to the wood as possible. Then I place the cabinet of the clock on top of the brads, position the cabinet precisely, and then force the cabinet down onto the brads and the base, now the two assemblies are fixed in location and I then position clamps to squeeze and hold the parts together until the glue has cured.

I have used the same technique when I need to have two boards edge glued to each other and don't want any motion during the clamping process. Just make sure that the boards are "good" face down on a flat surface when you position them and then you can apply a clamp and remove the boards off the surface and finish the clamping. No tools needed, dirt cheap, and the brads are invisible and permanent. And no salt on the workbench !

Re: glue squeeze out... I used to try to remove the glue immediately but have found that letting it totally cure and then scraping it off works far better as it won't fill the adjacent grain area nearly as much. That is especially important with an open grain like oak. Over the years I also learned not to flood the surfaces with glue; a thin coat is all that is needed.


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## cudaman (Aug 31, 2014)

*Use a spline joint*



mbcarpentry said:


> Hi all, newbie here and looking for some advice, I'm currently making a tv cabinet using American white oak and need some advice on joining planks together to make the top, I'm using 150mm x18mm boards and was wondering what would be the best way to join 3 boards together would biscuit jointing be strong enough or would you advise I use a tongue and groove joint. Cheers Martin.



Research using a spline joint.


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## Just Jim (Apr 6, 2014)

I agree, in a long grain to long grain glue joint biscuits just help keep things aligned. A trick I was taught is to drive a very small brad in each end of the board being glued. Then clip the brad off as close as you can. When you squeeze the joint together the brads keep the ends from slipping. It works best if you can make the glue up just a little long and then cut off the ends with the brads in.


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

A lot of good tips here... but let me add a few comments.

Although simple well jointed boards work well for us experienced folks... think back to when we first started working the wood, even store bought dimensional wood wasn't picture perfect. I for one became frustrated with it. So Mbcarpentry... use the biscuits! One thing about the biscuits is that the moister in the glue will cause them to swell and tighten up the joint.

As for glue residue - I agree that wetting the surplus squeeze out will cause it to thin and seep into the wood. Letting it dry and dealing with the aftermath is better then wetting it. A 3rd option is to dry fit your work and apply bees wax on the exposed surfaces. Bees wax will protect the exposed wood from absorbing glue and is easy to clean up... don't get any wax in the joint surfaces...


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## tom d (Oct 23, 2013)

build some cauls, joint the edges and glue up. biscuits will ultimately fail. another tip for the glue squeeze out is a non silicone wax(or painters tape) along the glue joints. as stated above, scrape after about twenty to thirty minutes, then sand. If you used the wax, clean off with alcohol or ketone, then sand. 

If you wipe with anything you will regret it, as you are pushing the glue into the pores, as stated. You will never get even staining.

This is a great forum, but consider getting Fine Woodworking archives or CD-ROM you can search any topic and learn a lot.(NO AFFilIATION)

Good luck.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

BernieL said:


> A lot of good tips here... but let me add a few comments.
> 
> Although simple well jointed boards work well for us experienced folks... think back to when we first started working the wood, even store bought dimensional wood wasn't picture perfect. I for one became frustrated with it. So Mbcarpentry... use the biscuits! One thing about the biscuits is that the moister in the glue will cause them to swell and tighten up the joint.
> 
> As for glue residue - I agree that wetting the surplus squeeze out will cause it to thin and seep into the wood. Letting it dry and dealing with the aftermath is better then wetting it. A 3rd option is to dry fit your work and apply bees wax on the exposed surfaces. Bees wax will protect the exposed wood from absorbing glue and is easy to clean up... don't get any wax in the joint surfaces...


I always damp (not soaking wet cloth, damp) wipe all excess glue. Have never had a problem with it getting into pores and showing.

George


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

Kansas Gary said:


> Don: Next time try this little tip to keep your boards from slipping..After you spread the glue on the edge of the board take a salt shaker and sprinkle just a little bit of salt on the glue. Not a whole lot just a tad will do. Try is on some scraps. I have found it works for me and I haven't had any failures on my glue lines using this method...........Gary





I had never heard of this until I was reading my WOOD magazine from last October. They had a reader write in that his neighbor suggested the same thing. Heres what the WOOD guys had to say...


*"Leave the salt in the kitchen, Herm (reader). According to Jeff Loflin, glue specialist at Franklin International (the maker of Titebond wood glues), salt (and sugar too) can react with wood glue and alter its composition, resulting in a weaker joint."*


They instead suggest using good gluing and clamping techniques.



FWIW....


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## Joinwood (Nov 23, 2009)

*Edge gluing boards- the correct way*

Hi, mbcarpentry.
Using 3 boards 150 x 18 mm glued together will make a good wide board. If the Oak is cut through & through you will need to reverse the direction of the end grain of the middle board, i.e. if the 1st & 3rd piece’s of Oak has the grain facing in the same direction you must make sure the 2nd piece faces in the opposite direction, unless it is crown cut then it won’t make any difference. The absolute best way to edge joint boards and which will increase the gluing surface by well over 100% is by using the loose tongue method. This entails routing a groove along the middle of each board 13 mm deep x 6 mm wide, stopping short of the going right through to the end of the board. If the end grain isn’t seen, running the boards through a saw to cut the grooves will be much faster. Then cut 25 mm wide strips of 6 mm thick plywood from the short side of a sheet of ply, never ever use MDF. Place your Oak board across cramps that are set ready to be used at the correct width. BUT you MUST make sure the Oak boards don’t make contact with the metal cramps so therefore place perhaps scraps of plywood or MDF on top of the cramps. Lightly glue all surfaces including the inside of the grooves and plywood, assemble, align the ends and cramp together. If using say 4 cramps the 1st & 3rd cramp are placed down onto your worktop and the 2nd & 4th cramp are placed across the top of the glued boards, (again making sure they do not make physical contact with the Oak), this will stop the boards cupping up. This simple technique will stop the glue from staining the Oak through oxidation of the metal cramps onto the surface of the Oak which will most certainly leave a near impossible mark to remove. Hope this long winded reply isn’t too late to help in your project. Cheers, Alan from across the Pond.


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## Bweick7 (Jan 14, 2010)

Domino Q500

Once you use it- you'll never look at biscuit joining as an option. 

JMPOV ,


B,


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