# GOOD GRIEF @$#& I need a drink



## User3489 (Dec 6, 2007)

I have been doing projects and building things with the material I had left over from building my house 10 yrs. ago. I went to the lumber yard to get some hickory and almost had a heart attack with the price.
I then went to HD and it was a few pennies cheaper but real junk.
I can get a whole variety of trees from my sons property ( Beech,maple,oak,hickory or black cherry ). Would it be cost effective to have some one do the mill work for me? I cannot believe the cost of good wood.  Dale


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

As long as you can wait a few years for the lumber to get useable :}


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

skymaster said:


> As long as you can wait a few years for the lumber to get useable :}


:confused1:. Have you ever heard of a kiln ? http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3103 3 weeks and you are in dry wood.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

tom-3 said:


> ( Beech,maple,oak,hickory or black cherry ). Would it be cost effective to have some one do the mill work for me? I cannot believe the cost of good wood. Dale


I would charge $.35 bft to mill here...how does that compare to the prices you saw at the store :laughing:. Depending on what you have (size, labor involved in moving the mill...) even having a guy come to you should not be over $.50 bft if you have a good stack and work things out ahead of time with the sawyer. The other sawyers around me charge $.25 bft if you bring it to them.
Even better for everyone if you have some good cherry (big and straight) ask around and see who "share cuts". For example I cut on 1/2s all the time for walnut and cherry, I take 1/2 and the guy with the log pays me $0 for my labor. The shares on the other species may be less, but if you don't want to spend any $ that is an option.


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## dpmcreations (Feb 3, 2008)

*Hey Tom*

Yes Lumber is expensive and it is very hard to get really good lumber at times.... But if you have the availability to cut and have sawn and Kiln Dried... Go for it... When I lived up North, I used to make deals like that all the time... Since I moved from up North, I don't have the capability to do that... Wish I still did... Good luck and Happy Cutting...


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Or if you have enough logs, have plenty sawn for yourself and if you have room to store it mill extra...sell the rest and not only have wood but cash in hand for other stuff. An ad in the paper should sell what you don't need pretty easy. You would have 10% (I assume) the $ invested per bft than buying it at the "Big Box", that should be easy to turn around for a profit.


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## User3489 (Dec 6, 2007)

*Have you ever heard of a kiln ?*



Daren said:


> :confused1:. Have you ever heard of a kiln ? http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3103 3 weeks and you are in dry wood.


The place where I got my logs for my home is only 8 miles from me. They have 4 kilns and kiln for private parties. The only piece of wood I bought today was a peice to line my bandsaw fence for a one time project. It was 3/4"x1 1/2"x24" and it cost $4.40 and it was poplar wood. I think they saw me coming. Dale


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

tom-3 said:


> It was 3/4"x1 1/2"x24" and it cost $4.40 and it was poplar wood. I think they saw me coming. Dale


Yea, 2-3 more customers like you and they prolly had a party arty:. Poplar is cheap, did you price their (Beech,maple,oak,hickory or black cherry) like you said you had access to? I reckon it would scare you to death.


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## skymaster (Oct 30, 2006)

Daren; Yes I know what a kiln is however I seriously doubt if he has one hanging around his yard. Unless he can afford to have the trees milled, transported to a kiln, dried and returned to his place, I dare say it is cheaper to just go buy what he needs.:icon_smile:


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

skymaster said:


> Daren; Yes I know what a kiln is however I seriously doubt if he has one hanging around his yard. Unless he can afford to have the trees milled, transported to a kiln, dried and returned to his place, I dare say it is cheaper to just go buy what he needs.:icon_smile:


Milling-$.25 bft, transportation to and from the kiln $.0 (yea you can have a backyard/shop/basement... kiln for $200 in a days work, did you not read the link?) approx $.05 bft electricity to dry the wood. Dare say what you will. I have sent guys out of my mill with a $100 invoice for my work and $1500 worth of wood. I suggest you keep buying wood from HD.:yes:


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## Marko (Feb 11, 2008)

tom-3 said:


> I have been doing projects and building things with the material I had left over from building my house 10 yrs. ago. I went to the lumber yard to get some hickory and almost had a heart attack with the price.
> I then went to HD and it was a few pennies cheaper but real junk.
> I can get a whole variety of trees from my sons property ( Beech,maple,oak,hickory or black cherry ). Would it be cost effective to have some one do the mill work for me? I cannot believe the cost of good wood. Dale


The short answer to the question above,*Yes!:thumbsup: *


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I never seen hickory for sale in any lumber yard, much less Homer Dee-pot. But it isn't hickory country around here exacxtly. We have it allright and plenty, just no market. 

Would it be cost effective? Of course. You just have to find a guy who will work with you, and you have to be the kind of guy who isn't a jerk like some of them who come to me wanting everything, for nothing, and yesterday! Since you don't strike me as a jerk I'd say all you have to do is shop around a little and find that sawyer in your area who you have no idea even exists. 



tom-3 said:


> The place where I got my logs for my home is only 8 miles from me. They have 4 kilns and kiln for private parties.


Man I have partied down in a lot of places in my party days but a dry kiln is one that is still virgin to me . . . . . sorry I had to add a little humor to the thread.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

skymaster said:


> Daren; Yes I know what a kiln is however I seriously doubt if he has one hanging around his yard. Unless he can afford to have the trees milled, transported to a kiln, dried and returned to his place, I dare say it is cheaper to just go buy what he needs.:icon_smile:


Now where is the fun in that? I don't have a kiln yet, but it seems I have plenty of time for the air drying. I would have hated to pay $2 a bd/ft for the cedar that went into the rocking horses I built for my grandsons.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

Marko said:


> The short answer to the question above,*Yes!:thumbsup: *


Nice web page....what brand of mill is in the picture?


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

If I ever saw hickory at HD, my first thought would be it got delivered to the wrong place.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Home Depot carry's hardwood?:laughing:


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

I recently purchased a piece of cedar panelling board that was 3/8 of an inch thick, slightly over 5 inches wide, and 8 feet long. This piece of kindling set me back $14.40. I still have a lump on my chin from my jaw hitting the floor. Unfortunately, I needed this piece to match the panelling on my hot tub to make an access door, so I didn't have much choice. I have access to offcuts from my brother, so I am going to start making my own panelling. I have lots of time, and I don't like wasting money.

Gerry


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## Knot Home (Feb 14, 2008)

*Hickory Doc?*

I thought they just used it to make hammer handles and bacon taste good. Seriously though, there's no way that store bought lumber can compete with what you can cut and dry yourself, even if you pay to have it cut and dried. Half the price would be a lot. Of course, this all takes some effort, so it all boils down to what you're willing to do to get a better price.

Drinking is not likely the answer. Once I quit for good I found I had enough money to buy a shop full of tools and all the wood I could ever want. Go figure.:blink:


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## Danny (Sep 20, 2007)

All this talk about drying wood and millin is really kiln me. Just pay the piper, and be done with it.


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## pappagor (Jan 13, 2008)

Daren said:


> Yea, 2-3 more customers like you and they prolly had a party arty:. Poplar is cheap, did you price their (Beech,maple,oak,hickory or black cherry) like you said you had access to? I reckon it would scare you to death.


 oak and poplar are about the same $around here i don't think they are cheap at all.:thumbdown:


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## User3489 (Dec 6, 2007)

joesdad said:


> If I ever saw hickory at HD, my first thought would be it got delivered to the wrong place.


At our HD they have Maple,oak,hickory,basswood,poplar and a little walnut and mahogany. A lot of it has flaws and most will not lay flat on the floor. They store the boards on end with the top leaning against the wall. Not a good way to keep them straight.

I don't want to start any thing here,but in your opinion would I get a better mill job from a regular sawmill or from a portable mill. I have access to both. There are 10 sawmills within 25 miles and as many portable mills. I do not know anything about a portable mill. 
When I was talking about having access to the hardwoods,thats all I have. I would have to have other people do all the work and get it back to my place. I am quite handi- capped and cannot run chain saws anymore or lift anything heavy. Both shoulders unusable and right knee also. ( Muscle disease ) Thanks Dale


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## arkyrick (Feb 13, 2008)

tom-3 said:


> I have been doing projects and building things with the material I had left over from building my house 10 yrs. ago. I went to the lumber yard to get some hickory and almost had a heart attack with the price.
> I then went to HD and it was a few pennies cheaper but real junk.
> I can get a whole variety of trees from my sons property ( Beech,maple,oak,hickory or black cherry ). Would it be cost effective to have some one do the mill work for me? I cannot believe the cost of good wood. Dale


Do like I did buy a mill make your own lumber then you can resell the mill if you don't need it, but remember there is a lead time to dry your lumber I have some already dry logs and I am building a kiln from Daren's plans


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

arkyrick said:


> . . . I have some already dry logs . . . .


If you have logs, that are "dry", you probably also have logs that will produce lumber with various defects from the get-go. I think what you mean is you have logs that have been laying around too long before you milled and stickered them.  

Been there done that. Still do but not as much as I used to. I think my new motto might be _"I will fell no tree until I am ready to toss it in a pond, put it under a sprinkler, or mill and sticker and stack the sucker in the drying shed or the kiln!"_ 

Don't rhyme very well but it makes the point.


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## arkyrick (Feb 13, 2008)

TexasTimbers said:


> If you have logs, that are "dry", you probably also have logs that will produce lumber with various defects from the get-go. I think what you mean is you have logs that have been laying around too long before you milled and stickered them.
> 
> I admit I'm new to Sawering but have cut logs that are dried to 7% and have found them to be fine, are you telling me that all logs should be cut when green? What do you mean by logs laying around too long? Any advice would be apreaciated.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

The best thing for a log once it is down is to mill it as soon as possible, simple as that. Not to say I have not milled hardwoods that have laid in the mud for years and still got beautiful lumber...but I would have got the same only _more_ if those very logs where cut fresh. You have exceptions to the rule, eastern red cedar for example can lay around awhile. But that is the only softwood off the top of my head I can think of, stuff like white pine will most likely be next to worthless if it lays all summer.(in the context of "grading", the industry standard, not that it is unusable) The same with some hardwoods, maple for example, it will degrade very quickly after being felled. Some sawmills only take maple in the winter/fresh cut to insure nice clear lumber. Sawed in the spring, by the middle of summer it has discolored badly.
I think the 7% was on the outside of your log, it takes several years for a log to "dry". And the conditions have to be just right (most rot/get eaten by bugs) before they would ever dry.
I get calls from people wanting logs milled and they say "I have let them _season_ for a couple years" no they have let them degrade (rot) for a couple years. The lumber would have been better fresh sawn.
This discussion is a double edged sword by me saying "saw them fresh or they rot" may give some people the impression maybe that log they have been kicking around has gone bad. It is all about species, some species degrade quickly (most softwoods) Some hardwoods do too (maple will discolor, cherry can get ring separation, red oak can get punky) While other hardwoods like white oak as long as the bug don't get it can stay good for years. I guess it just takes some knowledge on what trees are naturally decay resist. Here is one species osage orange (hedge, horse apple, bodark...) This log laid in the mud for 2 years and looks totally worthless...that was only skin deep. Same log, one picture before I cut into it one during milling.


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## stuart (Jan 20, 2008)

night and day difference!!!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

As Daren said there are many many variables. But in general, mill 'em as soon as you can. 

Notable exceptions: logs you are "cooking". I have some sycamore logs covered in leaves and sawdust and native grass growing all around and try to keep a pile of them year round. This is the spalt pile. 

I did the same thing to some mulberry and look how it turned out.








these walnut logs laid for 5 years in a pile and in deep pasture grass. they look stunning, but the waste was horrific and the wood I did had seperated grain - not wind shake - just seperated. I'll still find a use for wood this unique but it can't be fine furniture. 
















Got lots of other cool wood from "conditioned" logs as does Daren but it can be a crap shoot.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> Got lots of other cool wood from "conditioned" logs as does Daren but it can be a crap shoot.


Yep, a crap shoot. Best left to more experienced sawyers, or mother nature herself. Sometimes you just find something that is already spalted. My advice (even though I spalt my own wood, on purpose) saw them as soon as you can. I have gotten some good wood...and ruined plenty of good wood trying to tame/time it also.

Spalted maple


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

And not all woods spalt well...they just rot :thumbdown:.


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## arkyrick (Feb 13, 2008)

Great advice I wasn't aware of. The 7% reading I got was from a red cedar board 1" thick that I reciently milled it was a tree that had fallen near a power line and was partly uprooted for quite some time, the power company had cut it because it was a threat to the lines and gave it to me, it was about 24" wide and I cut it into three 8' logs and drug them out with my ATV it was all three of us could do to tip them up into my truck, I milled it right away and the wood came out beautiful. I took moisture readings on several boards and got between 7 & 8 % readings. I dont think if it had been a green tree we would have gotten them loaded on the truck by hand. 
I will definatly keep your advice in mind for now on Thanks!


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## arkyrick (Feb 13, 2008)

Daren you have made mention of cutting logs that have laid in the mud I assume you hose them down or maybe even pressure wash them? I have read here some where sombody mentioned pressure washing logs to save the bands is that a regular thing to do before cutting dirty logs, I suspect the answer is obvious.:blink:


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

arkyrick said:


> Daren you have made mention of cutting logs that have laid in the mud I assume you hose them down or maybe even pressure wash them? I have read here some where sombody mentioned pressure washing logs to save the bands is that a regular thing to do before cutting dirty logs, I suspect the answer is obvious.:blink:


Don't saw a muddy log. These had laid in the mud for a long time, but up out of it for a few weeks here and we have had heavy rain and snow they were clean. Yea, I have pressure washed them plenty of times. That few minutes pays for itself in band changing every time. The stuff I mill (walnut, cedar, sugar maple..) the mud hides an even worse blade killer, rocks in the bark.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

My brother uses a Honda pressure washer to clean off logs that have been the mud. It can get pretty wet and muddy here, so he uses it a lot.

Gerry


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