# Need advice on dust collection for garage shop



## Jeff Reed (Oct 17, 2020)

I'm just getting started with woodworking and am setting up in a detached 2 car garage. My tools are minimal. I'm completing a router cabinet, over the winter I picked up a used 6" jointer and I have a small table saw as well as a miter saw. Space is an issue as I have a project car which is immovable while I rebuild the engine. I'd like my personal car to be in the other side as I also have a company car that sits in the driveway...less cars in the driveway the better. I can fit my powertools and two cars in the garage but it's pretty tight. I'd have to move the car out to have room to move the tools around and use them

My dust collection I believe is minimal and I'd like for it to be wall hung. However I have read that 1hp and less isn't optimal. Is something like this Wen 1hp 660CFM enough for a single run which I'd switch between my tools?


https://www.amazon.com/WEN-3401-Collector-12-Gallon-Optional/dp/B07D9YHZ87/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1YTN10INIABHJ&dchild=1&keywords=wen+dust+collector&qid=1616632417&sprefix=wen+dust%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-1



I'm envisioning having a 4inch pipe run along the unfinished trusses to the wall hung collector at the back of the garage and have a flexible hose drop down which I'd change as needed. Maybe 10' of hard pipe with 6-8' of hose dropping down. I could also hang the collector on the side of the garage with much shorter runs just hose.

My other question is if I can buy just the collector motor, impeller and housing? I work in heating and air and have access to and experience with sheet metal. I can easily build fittings, large canisters to hold the dust and cyclones. Seems like I should be able to spend money on just the collector motor and such and build the rest myself...and thus get a better collection system for less.

Oh also, I plan on buying or building a filtration system. I have my pic of blower motors from furnaces. I could pretty easily build one for the cost of the wood and filters. BUT at the same time Wen sells one with a remote for pretty darn cheap.


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## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

Hmm, I am just using a Shopvac with a seperator, first I've seen the Wen 3401, great price for the CFM if it will do it. I don't see a claim for the partical size the bag filters to, and reviews say it is hard to empty, but for that price you can get something else. I haven't decide when or what to upgrade to, but I'd consider this Wen.

I have a Wen scroll saw, when using it the word quality doesn't come to mind often but it works, I think it is good for it's price point.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Here's the basics:
Saws and sanders make fine dust. Planers and jointers make large size chips. Shop vacs have high velocity, low volume performance. Dust collectors have high volume lower velocity performance. I connect my shop vacs to collect the dust to the 2" or smaller dust ports on my Radial Arm saw blade cover, my router table dust ports, my bandsaw's dust port and any hand held ROS or belt sanders. I connect my dust collector's flex hose to collct the chip on my jointer, planer and drum sander which is dust generating monster and requires all the collection capability it can get.
A dust collector with a bag filter has less surface area to filter the dust than one with a cannister filter and will clog up sooner.
A plastic collection bag is awkward to handle when it's full and wants to spill the dust. I use a cardboard drum under my dust collectors and I made an adapter for it.
Flex hose should be kept to a minimum because all the ripples slow down the air flow.
Smooth ABS drain pipe is the best/cheapest way to go. Metal pipe is more expensive.
Sharp bends reduce air flow, slower bends are best.
A central location for thee dust collect is better than at the end of a long run if you hang pipe from the ceiling. My dust collectors are on casters and I roll them as close to the machine I'm using as possible, then attach the flex hose with a "quick coupler" I made from PVC fittings and a flange end fitting from Rockler.

This is an old post I made, but some good info here and the quick change couple info:








Dust Collection in woodnthings shop part 1


This thread will show how I collect the dust from the table saw, jointer planer and a sliding miter saw. I use a combination of PVC couplers and dust collector flare fittings for quick change connections. I run 4" flex hose right from the Jet 1100 remote controlled DC to the flex hoses either...




www.woodworkingtalk.com


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## Jeff Reed (Oct 17, 2020)

woodnthings said:


> Here's the basics:
> Saws and sanders make fine dust. Planers and jointers make large size chips. Shop vacs have high velocity, low volume performance. Dust collectors have high volume lower velocity performance. I connect my shop vacs to collect the dust to the 2" or smaller dust ports on my Radial Arm saw blade cover, my router table dust ports, my bandsaw's dust port and any hand held ROS or belt sanders. I connect my dust collector's flex hose to collct the chip on my jointer, planer and drum sander which is dust generating monster and requires all the collection capability it can get.
> A dust collector with a bag filter has less surface area to filter the dust than one with a cannister filter and will clog up sooner.
> A plastic collection bag is awkward to handle when it's full and wants to spill the dust. I use a cardboard drum under my dust collectors and I made an adapter for it.
> ...


I haven't had time to read your post, but will this weekend. What is your opinion of adding a separator to my shop vac? I could build a cart to hold both the vac and container with separator to wheel to where I need it. Is a separator really needed if I'm only using the shop vac for router table and tools that create fine dust? For $100 I'm willing to try the Wen 660CFM and only use it for the appropriate tools. I can mount it on the side of the garage and move the tools to it as needed and keep short runs.

Though I'd really like to simply buy a motor and housing and build my own collector canister. I can't find any resources online to buy just a motor...well, other than eBay used and open box stuff which I don't feel safe trusting.


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## Bernie_72 (Aug 9, 2020)

Jeff Reed said:


> I haven't had time to read your post, but will this weekend. What is your opinion of adding a separator to my shop vac? I could build a cart to hold both the vac and container with separator to wheel to where I need it. Is a separator really needed if I'm only using the shop vac for router table and tools that create fine dust? For $100 I'm willing to try the Wen 660CFM and only use it for the appropriate tools. I can mount it on the side of the garage and move the tools to it as needed and keep short runs.
> 
> Though I'd really like to simply buy a motor and housing and build my own collector canister. I can't find any resources online to buy just a motor...well, other than eBay used and open box stuff which I don't feel safe trusting.


A separator isn't needed but they provide a few benefits. If your shop vac uses a bag like mine does the separator will keep almost all of the material out of the bag. Given the price of festool bags my separator will pay for itself in a few years. A well designed separator will also keep most of the fine dust out of the filter. This will keep the suction stronger and you won't have to clean out your filter as much.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Jeff Reed said:


> [...] What is your opinion of adding a separator to my shop vac? I could build a cart to hold both the vac and container with separator to wheel to where I need it. Is a separator really needed if I'm only using the shop vac for router table and tools that create fine dust? For $100 I'm willing to try the Wen 660CFM and only use it for the appropriate tools. I can mount it on the side of the garage and move the tools to it as needed and keep short runs.
> 
> Though I'd really like to simply buy a motor and housing and build my own collector canister. I can't find any resources online to buy just a motor...well, other than eBay used and open box stuff which I don't feel safe trusting.


I have seen many varieties of carts with shop vacs and dust separators. Some are a vertical configuration and some or horizontal. Mine is horizontal. I use the shop vac cart for all dust collection, from table saw, to router table, to sander, and even the DW735 planer. 

The separator is terrible. I am convinced that the problem is not the concept, but the awful separator that I bought. A lot of mixed material ends up in the shop vac (stuff the separator should have gotten). The shop vac filter clogs with fine dust and needs cleaning much more often than I expected. It is a Woodcraft "Cyclone" model that is no longer available, probably for a reason. Others have separators that actually work.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

If you want to build your own DC unit you'll need a motor/blower like this:





Motor Blowers at Penn State Industries


Shop for Motor Blowers at Penn State Industries today. Check out customer reviews and learn more about these great products.



www.pennstateind.com





The impeller design and size is very important so I would advise reading Bill Pentz site for that info:





Dust Collection Research - Equipment


This site helps small shop workers understand the risks from fine dust exposure and how to effectively protect themselves and their families from airborne dust hazards. Fine dust is so extensively studied that researchers call it PM short for particle material. A Google search on PM Health Risks...



billpentz.com





The separator for a full size DC is unit important and bit different than one for a shop vac. The cyclones Pentz recommends can be bought or built DIY.

Moving air is very complex and even engineers don't agree on all the aspects. Basically, the motor/blower removes the air which creates "suction" or negative pressure in the separator. The displaced air draws the dust into the separator where the larger particles drop down into the collection bag or barrel and then it's forced through the filter.. If the filter gets clogged by fine dust, it's performance drops and it's less efficient. A cannister filter has more surface area than a bag so it will remain more efficient for a longer period of time. 

It's often better to just buy a factory built unit even though they are not as efficient as they are advertised. I use the 1.5 HP Jet 1100 DC as well as the Jet AFS 3 speed overhead air filter in my shop because fine dust ALWAYS get into the shop air no matter what you use to collect the dust as best you can. If you were to use your shop at night making sawdust and sanding dust, then turn off the lights and shine a bright flashlight across the shop, you'd see a bunch of dust particles that are ordinarily "invisible". This will fine dust settle out by the next day and you'll find it covering your horizontal surfaces and machines. We do the best we can based on our budgets and the equipment we can afford, but it's rarely 100% efficient.


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## Jeff Reed (Oct 17, 2020)

woodnthings said:


> If you want to build your own DC unit you'll need a motor/blower like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the good info. I have started reading Pentz's info in the past and my head starts spinning. It's a lot to take in.


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## Jeff Reed (Oct 17, 2020)

Tool Agnostic said:


> I have seen many varieties of carts with shop vacs and dust separators. Some are a vertical configuration and some or horizontal. Mine is horizontal. I use the shop vac cart for all dust collection, from table saw, to router table, to sander, and even the DW735 planer.
> 
> The separator is terrible. I am convinced that the problem is not the concept, but the awful separator that I bought. A lot of mixed material ends up in the shop vac (stuff the separator should have gotten). The shop vac filter clogs with fine dust and needs cleaning much more often than I expected. It is a Woodcraft "Cyclone" model that is no longer available, probably for a reason. Others have separators that actually work.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. For now I'll use my shop vac and I can make a separator out of vent pipe 90s from work. I do like your cart design. I may copy it and make something out of my spare plywood


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