# craftsman radial radial arm saw - discontinued



## littledummy (Jul 17, 2018)

I am new to this forum and really need HELP! I have an old craftsman 10" deluxe electronic radial saw.
The motor was made by Emerson and inplanted into craftsman saw. Now, the motor is discontinued and I can't get any parts for it. I did replace the capacitor as it was humming, but continued humming. I tried to take the motor apart, but honestly I was afraid that I would damage the plastic cluth
housing that starts the motor. I did fool around with it a little! I ended up taking to an electric motor repair shop for eveluation in Sacramento. They tested it and it worked, but I had to cut the power cord in order to free it up. Now I finally soildered and connected the wires back up (you have to remembewr this is an old motor). But, I failed to check all the connections, resulting a short in the starter switch as the terminals from the capacitor and motor touched. Shorting it out - what a dummy!! After taking the switch out and filing the contacts and reintalling it, somehow I broke the housing for the reset switch. I think I found a place to buy the correct reset switch. This is fun? Now I would like to find out, if anyone out there knows what could be a replacement motor for this unit? The model # is 113.197510. The housing is different from the other radial saws. I would like some feedback if you can. Sorry for the book! It has been a journey. Thank you in advance.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

littledummy said:


> I am new to this forum and really need HELP! I have an old craftsman 10" deluxe electronic radial saw.
> The motor was made by Emerson and inplanted into craftsman saw. Now, the motor is discontinued and I can't get any parts for it. I did replace the capacitor as it was humming, but continued humming. I tried to take the motor apart, but honestly I was afraid that I would damage the plastic cluth
> housing that starts the motor. I did fool around with it a little! I ended up taking to an electric motor repair shop for eveluation in Sacramento. They tested it and it worked, but I had to cut the power cord in order to free it up. Now I finally soildered and connected the wires back up (you have to remembewr this is an old motor). But, I failed to check all the connections, resulting a short in the starter switch as the terminals from the capacitor and motor touched. Shorting it out - what a dummy!! After taking the switch out and filing the contacts and reintalling it, somehow I broke the housing for the reset switch. I think I found a place to buy the correct reset switch. This is fun? Now I would like to find out, if anyone out there knows what could be a replacement motor for this unit? The model # is 113.197510. The housing is different from the other radial saws. I would like some feedback if you can. Sorry for the book! It has been a journey. Thank you in advance.


You might check with ebay now and then, someone is always parting out a saw. If it were me I would try repairing the case. Plastic can usually be put back together with plastic welding but it's not real strong. You can go back after the weld is done though with epoxy for plastic and fiberglass cloth and make a pretty good repair that will last.


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

I think I would look for a used table saw. A table saw is way better than a radial saw.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

hawkeye10 said:


> I think I would look for a used table saw. A table saw is way better than a radial saw.


That is a matter of opinion, usually held by those that have never actually used a radial arm saw and are only repeating what they have been told. Like most tools, not as good for some things, superior at others.


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## littledummy (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks for suggestion. I did check ebay-no luck! As I said, I think I located a company for the reset button replacement. Now I just have to call them. What I am really looking for is a new motor, otherwise I can toss the whole thing. I like the electronic radial arm saw it can compound cut andobtain special cuts. I don't use it much, but when I need it, it's a good tool to have. Not to say a table saw isn't. I actually use the table saw more for ripping lumber and other straight cuts.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I have never used one of those saws so have no idea how accurate the system is, one of the down sides of radial arms in general is maintaining repeatable accuracy which is why they are often replaced by sliding compound miter saws. It may be cheaper to just by a good miter saw rather than a motor for that saw.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

I have both. Both can be dangerous. Both are useful. For cross cutting the RAS is king in my opinion.

Norm Abrams' shop always featured both saws.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Packard said:


> I have both. Both can be dangerous. Both are useful. For cross cutting the RAS is king in my opinion.
> 
> Norm Abrams' shop always featured both saws.


Just curious - what can a radial arm saw do that a dual compound bevel sliding miter saw cant? Have owned several RASs and over the years haven't missed them. The table saw and miter saw do everything I need.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

Well, I bought mine from my next door neighbor in nearly new condition for $100.00 and he helped me carry it to the basement. There were no sliding miter saws available as I recall in 1998 when I bought it. 

I get cleaner cuts off the RAS, but I guess if I put in some sort of zero clearance throat on my chop saw it would make cleaner cuts also.

I can see no reason to replace the RAS with a sliding miter saw. And I can see no reason to replace a sliding miter saw with a RAS. The sliding miter saw is a bit safer to use. I am not familiar with them. Can they accept stacked dado sets? I frequently use my RAS for dadoes on narrower boards (up to 15" wide). But certainly you can do those with a router and a jig. So still no reason for either camp to change sides.

I also have a sliding table miter saw (left over from my picture framing business). I can replicate the results of that saw, but it would be much slower to do so. And since the miter angles are fixed and calibrated the miters are always 100% on the mark. It is only suitable for smaller moldings (about 3½ wide) but for repetitive cuts, a dream to use.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*How many hammers do you have ....?*

Just like I thought , way more than one. The same goes for power saws. :smile2:
Each saw wheteher table, sliding miter or radial arm saw wexcells that one or more things the others can't do. I have several RASs, several tables saws and 2 sliding compound miter saws, so I know a little about all of them.

Table saws rip wood down it'slength better any any other saw, but don't crosscut long lengths easily because there is not much support on the miter gauge.

RAS saw cross cut wood very well and may have a slightly greater capacity than a sliding miter saw. They can also accept a stacked dado which a miter saw can not. They can rip OK, but there are cautions than need to be fully understood. It's not for everyone or novices. You can also make molding with a molding head.

Miter saws are lighter and therefore portable, where a RASs are too heavy to tote around, so they are great of onsite work. They are great for compound miters where setting up a RAS would take more time.

A well equipped shop will have one of each because each does one operation better than the others. :vs_cool:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have taken apart a "sealed" RAS motor*

I am probably one of the few who has taken apart one of those "impossible to repair" Craftsman RAS motors and replaced the bearings. The local motor repair shop refused to open it up so that left me on my own. :|

Here's the rebuild thread:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/craftsman-12-ras-motor-rebuild-35737/


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## Mycrossover (May 18, 2018)

littledummy said:


> I am new to this forum and really need HELP! I have an old craftsman 10" deluxe electronic radial saw.
> The motor was made by Emerson and inplanted into craftsman saw. Now, the motor is discontinued and I can't get any parts for it. I did replace the capacitor as it was humming, but continued humming. I tried to take the motor apart, but honestly I was afraid that I would damage the plastic cluth
> housing that starts the motor. I did fool around with it a little! I ended up taking to an electric motor repair shop for eveluation in Sacramento. They tested it and it worked, but I had to cut the power cord in order to free it up. Now I finally soildered and connected the wires back up (you have to remembewr this is an old motor). But, I failed to check all the connections, resulting a short in the starter switch as the terminals from the capacitor and motor touched. Shorting it out - what a dummy!! After taking the switch out and filing the contacts and reintalling it, somehow I broke the housing for the reset switch. I think I found a place to buy the correct reset switch. This is fun? Now I would like to find out, if anyone out there knows what could be a replacement motor for this unit? The model # is 113.197510. The housing is different from the other radial saws. I would like some feedback if you can. Sorry for the book! It has been a journey. Thank you in advance.


Emerson has always been the manufacturer of the entire RAS for Sears. The motor was not "implanted" it was what has always been used. They supply a lot of Craftsman and HD shop vacs and back in the day, a Craftsman drill press. They are also the owner of the Ridgid name. HF uses it under license.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Mycrossover (May 18, 2018)

Mycrossover said:


> Emerson has always been the manufacturer of the entire RAS for Sears. The motor was not "implanted" it was what has always been used. They supply a lot of Craftsman and HD shop vacs and back in the day, a Craftsman drill press. They are also the owner of the Ridgid name. HD uses it under license.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk




Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Mycrossover (May 18, 2018)

Mycrossover said:


> Emerson has always been the manufacturer of the entire RAS for Sears. The motor was not "implanted" it was what has always been used. They supply a lot of Craftsman and HD shop vacs and back in the day, a Craftsman drill press. They are also the owner of the Ridgid name. HD uses it under license.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk




Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Alchymist said:


> Just curious - what can a radial arm saw do that a dual compound bevel sliding miter saw cant? Have owned several RASs and over the years haven't missed them. The table saw and miter saw do everything I need.



The only reason I even wanted a RAS was to cut a series cross-cut angled rabbets for a workbench project (angled slots for the bench dogs). I tried to make that cut on my TS once, but the length of the work piece made it very difficult to make clean and controlled cuts. If you have a super-wide saw table and an awesome jig, perhaps it's not an issue. 



I'm personally not a big fan of the RAS, but I got mine after my father-in-law passed and he swore up and down that it was safer and easier to control. 'course another woodworker told me that people have actually lost arms in serious RAS accidents. Mine is going into the back of the shop and will rarely see any use.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

RepairmanJack said:


> The only reason I even wanted a RAS was to cut a series cross-cut angled rabbets for a workbench project (angled slots for the bench dogs). I tried to make that cut on my TS once, but the length of the work piece made it very difficult to make clean and controlled cuts. If you have a super-wide saw table and an awesome jig, perhaps it's not an issue.



I would think many sliding miter saws have that capability, I know mine does.



In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## Cleatus (Oct 11, 2018)

The radial arm saw can use different cutter heads at different angles and be used to rip cut long lengths of material. This you can't do with a miter saw.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

hawkeye10 said:


> I think I would look for a used table saw. A table saw is way better than a radial saw.


I have both. The table saw is more versatile. But the radial arm saw excels in cross cuts and especially in short dadoes. 

I've never used the RAS for ripping and I would be reluctant to do so. I only paid $100.00 for my lightly used saw (including delivery from my across-the-street neighbor). I consider it an excellent investment. 

I might never have bought my 12" chop saw if I had gotten the RAS a bit earlier.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*RAS or miter saw or table saw...... yes!*



RepairmanJack said:


> The only reason I even wanted a RAS was to cut a series cross-cut angled rabbets for a workbench project (angled slots for the bench dogs). I tried to make that cut on my TS once, but the length of the work piece made it very difficult to make clean and controlled cuts. If you have a super-wide saw table and an awesome jig, perhaps it's not an issue.
> 
> I'm personally not a big fan of the RAS, but I got mine after my father-in-law passed and he swore up and down that it was safer and easier to control. 'course another woodworker told me that people have actually lost arms in serious RAS accidents. Mine is going into the back of the shop and will rarely see any use.


A RAS will make angled dados on long stock easier than any other method I've used to make a library ladder, so I know. Long pieces are not easy to align on the miter gauge, but the RAS has a long fence to hold them secure. BTW I own about 4 or 5 of them. Some miter saws have a depth stop, but you have to make a zillion cuts to make dados, so not very efficient. 

I have ripped hundreds of feet on a RAS, no issues what so ever. Ya gotta know what to do to make it safe. It wants to lift the work off the table, so you rotate the nose of the blade guard down so it holds the work down. Simple, but not everyone knows this.

I don't know if the table saw is more versatile than a RAS, it's probably a close call. The RAS was billed as a one tool woodworking machine shop when it came out on high volumes, back in the '60's. It was the only machine some woodworkers had, so they were pretty popular. The RAS excels at cross cutting where the table saw excels at ripping, that's the best overall argument that can be made. 

When the work is long or large, it's best to bring the saw to the work.... RAS or circular saw.
When the work is small and requires precision, bring the work to the saw.... table saw.
My table saw(s) is 10 ft wide, so I can manage large panels easily. They are just real dang heavy. :vs_cool:




Packard said:


> I have both. The table saw is more versatile. But the radial arm saw excels in cross cuts and especially in short dadoes.
> 
> I've never used the RAS for ripping and I would be reluctant to do so. I only paid $100.00 for my lightly used saw (including delivery from my across-the-street neighbor). I consider it an excellent investment.
> 
> I might never have bought my 12" chop saw if I had gotten the RAS a bit earlier.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

Alchymist said:


> Just curious - what can a radial arm saw do that a dual compound bevel sliding miter saw cant? Have owned several RASs and over the years haven't missed them. The table saw and miter saw do everything I need.


If the slide bearings are not tight the blade can climb up on the work and charge back at you. In the store the RAS slides like butter. But that is probably too loose. You need to feel almost no play at all when you push up on the arm.

It has never happened to me, but like kickback it happens without warning and it can be violent and dangerous.


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

FrankC said:


> That is a matter of opinion, usually held by those that have never actually used a radial arm saw and are only repeating what they have been told. Like most tools, not as good for some things, superior at others.


Sorry Frank I can not agree. 

First, littledummy you are not! You are very smart at what you don't know and are asking questions. 

As someone new to woodworking, I would never advise them to use a Radial Arm Saw. I started my woodworking with a RAS. After 30 years of use and by little more than the grace of God, I still have all ten. I turned mine in for the recall money, $100.

I can see how any RAS is good for a cross cut but not much else. The problem with that RAS is that Sears sold it as a do everything tool. And yes the RAS could do everything but in most cases it shouldn't. There were some things Sears sold to allow the saw to do are down right terrifying. 

My suggestion is to check out

http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/

and take the $100 and apply that to a contractor type of table saw.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

the list of non-dangerous if misused shop tools is exceedingly short.


I bought a RAS in 1976 and still use it everyday.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

TomCT2 said:


> the list of non-dangerous if misused shop tools is exceedingly short.
> 
> 
> I bought a RAS in 1976 and still use it everyday.


I bought my Craftsman Radial arm in 1973 and I still use it. It’s never broken down. 
It was my first large woodworking tool and I initially used it for everything including cutting moldings. 
But after buying a good tablesaw, the tablesaw became my first choice for stationary tools. :smile2:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The anti-radial arm saw position ....*



TomCT2 said:


> the list of non-dangerous if misused shop tools is exceedingly short.
> 
> 
> I bought a RAS in 1976 and still use it everyday.


I don't know what year I got mine, but it was around 1980. There was one for sale on the bulletin board at work for $40.00, so I got it, a 10 Craftsman which I still own today. It works just fine. Since then I've acquired several more Craftsman 12" RAS which are virtually identical except for a better dual voltage 120v /240 v motor and larger blade capacity. I've made a radial arm router from one, a 2 axis panel saw from another. I really like mine and have had no injuries or even close calls. I wanted to know how dangerous they really were ....:surprise2:

So, I looked up some injury statistics from hospital ER room visits related to saw type injuries. I found an amazing stat. The RAS and bandsaw account for only 4% of those injuries and the table saw accounts for 40% and handsaws about 20%. Coulda fooled me:

https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/statsaws.pdf


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

As someone else posted, most of those who hate a RAS either have never used one or didn't know how to operate the one they did use safely. 

Any power tool can eat you up if it is either out of tune or you don't know how to do the setups. By far the scariest tool in my shop is the shaper. It makes all other tools in the shop seem tame, especially when it's spinning a large or complex bit. But it has never hurt me. I pay great care when setting up cuts, especially in, say, the end grain cut of a red oak cabinet door rail. 

Radial arm saws are no different. If you cut corners on setups (for complex operations or ripping), or fail to keep the machine in tune, or use a dull blade, then heck yes, your RAS has license to bite you. But so does your table saw, drill press, or lathe (I've experienced dull tools on my lathe. Never again!). So in shop general, if you don't act like an idiot, your shop won't treat you like one.

The only reason, as a hobby woodworker, that I have a table saw is because it can sit in the middle of the floor. Ripping long boards with ample room all around is much more comfortable. The RAS doesn't sit well in that position; it much prefers a wall to hug. Were it not for that aspect, I may have never bought a table saw.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> [...] So, I looked up some injury statistics from hospital ER room visits related to saw type injuries. I found an amazing stat. The RAS and bandsaw account for only 4% of those injuries and the table saw accounts for 40% and handsaws about 20%. Coulda fooled me: [...]


NOTE: The link was broken for me, but I found this one, which is probably the intended webpage: https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/118311/statsaws.pdf

It is very easy to misinterpret statistics. In this case, this excellent report reviews data for reported injuries due to certain categories of saws. It is important to keep in mind that this is an _analysis of reported injuries_. 

The problem is that we do not know anything about usage. How many saws of different types are there, and how much are they used? 

I wonder whether the reason that table saw injury numbers are so high and radial arm saw & bandsaw injuries are so low is because there are many more table saws in use compared with radial arm saws and bandsaws. That is a guess. It could also be that table saw owners average less experience than radial arm saw and bandsaw owners. I could be wrong about either or both, but the report won't help us determine that. 

I think it would be more useful to know the probability of being injured from using a given tool. If I use a radial arm saw or a bandsaw or a table saw right now, which one is more likely to be involved in an injury to myself? 

Does that make sense?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Makes NO sense at all.*

I didn't study probability in college, but it's quite complicated.

Trying to predict what the operator will do is not possible, IT AIN'T the saw, it's the operator.
Some operators take chances, other are just ignorant of the physics involved, others will not read an Owner's Manual. etc.
You can not blame auto accidents on the type of vehicles involved, so your theory won't apply here either. 
The only cause of any shop mishap is Operator Error.
Fatigue and lack of attention to the physics involved in the cutting process will account for the vast majority of mishaps.
Dull blades, wood that isn't straight and flat, fences that don't stay put or are misaligned will all contribute to kickbacks.

I've been cut more often by my Stanley knife or an Exacto knife than any machine tool ... just sayin.


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

I've had my RAS for 35 years and still use it as much as my table saw. 

As far as your motor, I have a craftsman RAS but I've never had any problems with it. I know mine has a starter circuit for quick starts, then switches in run mode. I have had other motors with a start circuit get saw dust in the points and it will just hum on start up. Either take it apart or somehow check the contacts in the motor and clean them.

This is long shot but if you take the blade off, and somehow get the shaft spinning fast enough, then turn the RAS on the motor might start. If it starts, take an air compressor and blow it out. Maybe what is ever in the contacts will blow out. You have to get it spinning fast enough for the weights in the motor to shift into run mode and open the contacts. Maybe put a drill chuck on the end of the motor shaft, then put a metal dowel in the chuck on the RAS. Put your cordless drill on the dowel and turn it on to get it spinning. Make sure your going in the right direction. Good luck.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*"unsafe saws"*



woodnthings said:


> I didn't study probability in college, but it's quite complicated.
> 
> Trying to predict what the operator will do is not possible, IT AIN'T the saw, it's the operator.
> Some operators take chances, other are just ignorant of the physics involved, others will not read an Owner's Manual. etc.
> ...


If there is a category of unsafe saws, I believe it would be the cheap, aluminum top portable table saw with a small frontal platform and a fence that won't secure properly. I do NOT mean a quality job site saw like a Bosch 4000, which I own. It's like riding a motorcycle without a helmet, you are allowed to do so, but at your own risk. I have already gone over the bars and landed on my head on concrete wearing a full coverage helmet, so I'm a helmet wearer. :smile2:

I feel bad for those folks who do not know any different and think they can use one of these safely. My only experience was at a friends house where we were cutting cedar siding about 1/2" thick. Thankfully I had years of table saw experience to guide me. The saw was rickety, loud and scary. I was glad when we were finished.
If I recall, I had to add a wedge to the fence lock to make it stay put.... scary. :surprise2::vs_OMG:

So, the probability of an injury on those category of saws would be much higher than any other....just my opinion.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Unsafe saws ..ripping on a RAS*

I've ripped a few thousand feet on a RAS, but I made a special setup for it using a hold down roller. The fence was 24 ft long and the table support was 28 ft long. Not a single safety or kickback issue.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> I didn't study probability in college, but it's quite complicated.
> 
> Trying to predict what the operator will do is not possible, IT AIN'T the saw, it's the operator.
> Some operators take chances, other are just ignorant of the physics involved, others will not read an Owner's Manual. etc.
> ...


Everything you said is right.

I admit that in my attempt to simplify my point, I deliberately omitted many factors that would complicate the question:

* What is an "injury"? 
I get minor boo-boos all the time, same as you. They include splinters, cuts from a Stanley or Exacto knife, etc. I don't call those "injuries." I suggest that a reasonable definition of "injury" might be "a wound that requires a visit to a doctor, clinic, or hospital." 

* Types and severity of injuries vary, depending on which tool is involved in the injury.
A given type of tool may cause more injuries than others, but if the resulting injuries are generally less severe, how do you factor that in your calculations? I have read that drill presses are involved in more injuries than any other tool, but the injuries tend to be much less severe, and tend to go unreported. Compare a drill press with "blade" tools, such as the radial arm saws, bandsaws, and table saws that we are discussing here. Amputations are more severe than simple fractures. 

* Some tools may be used more than others. 
If you spend every day cutting wood on a bandsaw full time, but make one cut on a table saw each week, then it is more likely that you will be injured by the bandsaw, not the table saw, even if the table saw _may_ be more "dangerous."

When I say "some tools may be used more than others", I don't know what that means. Do you measure by time spent using the tool (say, total minutes per day)? Do you measure by how much cutting is done (say, linear feet of cut per day)? Is there a defined standard for measuring "tool use"?

* I suspect that experience level is a factor. 
I believe that more experienced woodworkers are less likely to be injured, assuming that all other factors are equal. 

At the same time, more experienced woodworkers probably spend more time on their tools, which increases their chances of an injury. Compare an experienced, full-time woodworker who spends 40 hours a week doing woodworking with a weekend hobbyist who spends two hours a week doing woodworking. Even if we assume that the hobbyist is ten times more likely to be injured while doing woodworking, the experienced woodworker is twice as likely to be injured in any given week, because he/she spends 20 times the number of hours doing woodworking.

* Many other factors. You get the idea.
@woodnthings points out that individual operators are responsible for their injuries, and that's true. If everyone did everything correctly, woodworking injury counts would drop to low levels, leaving mostly mechanical failures and freak "corner cases."

Woodnthings says, "You can not blame auto accidents on the type of vehicles involved, so your theory won't apply here either." That's true, but you can make generalizations based on broad numbers. If you take 1000 red sports cars and 1000 white minivans, I believe that highway collision statistics will show that the group of 1000 red sports cars will experience more collisions in a given time than the white minivans. 

The reasons WHY red sports cars experience more collisions won't change the numbers. It could be that red sports cars tend to be owned by less experienced drivers. Perhaps they are driven more miles than white minivans. Perhaps average speeds are higher than white minivans. We don't care. All we know is that if you own a red sports car, the probability is higher that it will be involved in a collision. 

Let's say that own a red sports car, but you are a careful driver who is never involved in a collision. All it means is that there are other, less cautious red sports car drivers who bring the average up by getting into an above-average number of collisions. If we assume that Woodworking Talk members have above average safety records as a group, then there must be non-members out there with below average safety records, just as you would expect. 

Take 1000 radial arm saws, 1000 bandsaws, and 1000 table saws. Take a bunch of woodworkers who represent the general population of woodworkers - some pros, some hobbyists, some in-between, etc. If you use each tool the same (whatever that means), how many injuries will result from each tool? The one with most injuries has the highest probability, and the one with the least injuries has the lowest probability.

You can beat the odds by following best practices and using tools with better safety features. If everyone does that, then overall injury numbers will decline. It is as simple and as complex as that.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Red VS White*

The implication is that the color of the vehicle determines the probability of a crash. Simply not true unless a huge statistical sample is taken, factoring out age and driving experience.

I would venture a guess that a sports car driver of any color vehicle will "take more chances" and be a more aggressive driver in some instances, relying on their skill to get them out of a jam. I can only speak for myself, having driven icy, snow covered gravel roads for the past 44 years. I can drift a corner at 2 or 3 times the speed of a minivan soccer mom.... if the need arises. But back to the discussion at hand.

I agree that given proper training and safety equipment actually on the saw would decrease injuries dramatically, BUT that ain't real life, in the real world OR here on the forum. 
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/lets-see-some-damage-34/

Even using a push stick improperly as Catpower experienced, can result in a serious injury. A moment of lapse in focus can result in an injury even by an experienced operator. Saw Stop would not have prevented that injury. Some things Ya just can not prepare for. :|


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I have always wondered, is it Craftsman radial arm saws that are so dangerous or radial arm saws in general?

In any other tool discussion the brand always comes up, never buy X brand router or Y brand table saw because..........

Yet I hear second hand horror stories about Craftsman radial arm saws and from that radial arm saws in general being condemned. 

I have never owned a Craftsman brand radial arm, so can't really comment on them, however my experience with several DeWalt saws has been nothing but positive.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I'm from the Craftsman camp ...*

I've never owned and anything else, but I do hear very good reports on the Delta/Rockwell turret types, in 14" and larger being much more robust. Since a million? Craftsman were sold, it's not surprising that by sheer volume there are more "complaints" and safety issues.

A loose carriage is probably the issue in any "ride up and over" incidents. They are so easy to check and adjust that there is no reason to have a loose carriage on the saw. There are 4 bolts and lock nuts that are cams that when you rotate them they will take up any slack in the carriage. So, lack of proper setup and maintenance would be my "theory" on the mishaps. When the carriage is snugged up, there is no physical way it can ride up and over your workpiece..... there just ain't any space left.

A simple test is to place a small block right under the motor and see if it will pry upwards any significant amount carefully using a stick or pry bar. It shouldn't move much more than 1/32" or so. 

Also, a failure to have all the various function locks secure would be a serious mistake. Having the locator pins seated would be another issue which would cause mishaps. Ya gotta know your equipment to make it work correctly. :|


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Emerson has recalled something like 3.7 million Craftsman radial arm saws, Ryobi a few as well, yet have not heard of any of the Dewalt types recalled.


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## PeterZack (Oct 14, 2018)

Not to enter the fray on 'which is better', I have an RAS, TS and a couple mitre saws. All have their place. 

As for the parts, I've had to get parts for an Craftsman RAS a couple times and just turned to the used market. Here, we have Kijiji. There I would assume it's Craig's list. There are always a couple dozen saws for sale at $100 or less any given day. As a result, I have spare parts from a couple of these buys (just not for that particular model). I'd look there and I bet within a week, you'll find what you need.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> The implication is that the color of the vehicle determines the probability of a crash. Simply not true unless a huge statistical sample is taken, factoring out age and driving experience.
> 
> I would venture a guess that a sports car driver of any color vehicle will "take more chances" and be a more aggressive driver in some instances, relying on their skill to get them out of a jam. I can only speak for myself, having driven icy, snow covered gravel roads for the past 44 years. I can drift a corner at 2 or 3 times the speed of a minivan soccer mom.... if the need arises. But back to the discussion at hand.
> 
> ...


Not at all. In fact, I am trying to make the opposite point. We don't know and we don't care which factors determine the probability of a crash. All we care about is the per capita crash rate of different color cars. Yes, I am talking about that "huge statistical sample." That is exactly what I mean. 

Using our example of the two cars: If you take a red sports car and a white minivan _and have no other information about them_, you can state that the red sports car is more likely to experience a collision. You cannot make any statements about _why_ the red sports car has that higher probability, at least not without additional information. 

If we look at radial arm saws, bandsaws, and table saws, and count the per-use injury rates, we can make some generalized statements about their safety. We cannot make any statements about why there are more injuries from one tool vs. another. We cannot make any statements about the probability of injury from a specific, single use of the tool by a given woodworker. 

I hope this helps clarify my points. Yes, I am talking about aggregate numbers.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Your example is apple to bananas*

If you compare red sports cars to yellow sports cars, all other variables being equal... what's your theory now? You have to compare similar items to have a relevant outcome. Mini van drivers and sports car drivers will have different skill levels. How many mini van drivers can drive a manual transmission? How many know about and can master "heel and toe" with the manual tranny?

Take a different example. Wood handled hammers VS fiberglass VS nylon. Which hammers drive nails more efficiently with less bending? Here again a good study would have a statistically significant number of trials to be relevant. I haven't studied statistical analysis, but I have worked with engineers and designers who needed data to confirm a new product's efficiency or application.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

Radial arm saws are self feeding. Always best to stiff arm them. You should use a blade with negative hook to limit the self feed.

The heavier the saw head the easier they are to control. A 10" Sears is very light. We've got an old 16" DeWalt just used for rough cutting to length. It is much easier to control.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> If you compare red sports cars to yellow sports cars, all other variables being equal... what's your theory now? You have to compare similar items to have a relevant outcome. Mini van drivers and sports car drivers will have different skill levels. How many mini van drivers can drive a manual transmission? How many know about and can master "heel and toe" with the manual tranny?
> 
> Take a different example. Wood handled hammers VS fiberglass VS nylon. Which hammers drive nails more efficiently with less bending? Here again a good study would have a statistically significant number of trials to be relevant. I haven't studied statistical analysis, but I have worked with engineers and designers who needed data to confirm a new product's efficiency or application.


Yes, apples and bananas. 
Yes, statistically significant numbers are needed.

Agreed, a good study of wood vs fiberglass vs nylon hammers would have a statistically significant number of trials to be relevant. After pounding a large number of nails with each type of hammer, you may learn which hammer drives nails more efficiently with less bending than other hammers, but you won't know why. 

When you are done, you won't know anything about why one hammer does better than another? Is it because the handle type improves hammering quality? Maybe. Is it because bad hammerers choose less efficient, "bendy" hammer types? Maybe. Whatever the cause or causes, simple or complex, you must devise additional studies with statistically significant numbers to determine more. 

The same is true for radial arm saws vs. bandsaws vs. table saws. If you use them equally in statistically significant numbers, then which of the three tools would result in the most injuries? I thought I said that in my previous post above. _Aren't you saying the same thing?_

One issue that I have is how to define "use them equally" when they are different tools, used in somewhat different ways. Does "equally" mean equal time on each tool? Does it mean equal cut distance (say, linear feet of cut)? Does it mean something else?

In the end, you may learn which tool results in more injuries for the equal use, but you won't know the reason why it results in more injuries. Not without further study.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*More apples and bananas*

Let's just say mini van driver and sports car drives came out dead even in the number of crashes. When we sort for male VS female we find male drivers have 25% more crashes, no matter the type of vehicle. But we were expecting mini van drivers to have more crashes! What the heck happened? There's another variable/constant effecting the results than what we were expecting. OK, it's got to be texting while driving! You can't go anywhere without seeing a driver with a phone in their face. Anyway, who cares?

Power tools are dangerous because they have high speed spinning blades. They each have slightly different operational "safe" modes. I don't think you can generalize and say one is MORE dangerous than the other, because it's the operator who is "always" at fault as I suggested about 3 pages back. The study tends to prove my point about RAS broadly speaking. The result was not what we were expecting..... "the damn RAS are evil and dangerous and should be banned and turned in for ransom". Horse puckey.
:vs_cool: Carry on men.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> Let's just say mini van driver and sports car drives came out dead even in the number of crashes. When we sort for male VS female we find male drivers have 25% more crashes, no matter the type of vehicle. But we were expecting mini van drivers to have more crashes! What the heck happened? There's another variable/constant effecting the results than what we were expecting. OK, it's got to be texting while driving! You can't go anywhere without seeing a driver with a phone in their face. Anyway, who cares?
> 
> Power tools are dangerous because they have high speed spinning blades. They each have slightly different operational "safe" modes. I don't think you can generalize and say one is MORE dangerous than the other, because it's the operator who is "always" at fault as I suggested about 3 pages back. The study tends to prove my point about RAS broadly speaking. The result was not what we were expecting..... "the damn RAS are evil and dangerous and should be banned and turned in for ransom". Horse puckey.
> :vs_cool: Carry on men.


You're right. You don't understand statistics. The study does not "tend" to prove your point. It also does not "tend" to disprove it. Either way, you don't have enough information to make the point that you want to make. 

All we know is that total number of radial arm saw injuries in this study is lower than some people expected. We don't know why, and that is the problem. 

Are radial arm saw injury counts low because they are inherently less dangerous than some people think? Are radial arm saw injury counts low because few people own and use them? Either way, we do not know, because the study did not include the information that we need to answer those questions.

Statements like, "The damn RAS are evil and dangerous and should be banned and turned in for ransom." may be "horse puckey" to you. Unfortunately, the study does not help you prove your assertion that it is horse puckey. It also does not help anyone else prove that it is not horse puckey. Nobody can know, at least not from this study.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*We have inadvertantly done a small sample study here*

The number of replies that support the RAS are in the majority by far.
You can come to your own conclusions whether you understand statistical analysis OR the survey results. Most folks that own them and use them, like them and have used them safely. There were millions made and a million recalled, but that doesn't mean everyone turned their RAS in to collect the "ransom". I didn't for certain and I own about 5 of them. As a machine operator, if you use them wisely and correctly they are safe. 

Just like any other dangerous device, Xacto knives, Stanley knives, hand saws, motorcycles, and yes even firearms, safety is a "mindset", not a property of a device. Revolvers have no safety, most semi autos do, so which firearm is more safe...? :vs_cool:


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I have used radial arm saws, bandsaws, and table saws over the years. I currently own a table saw and a bandsaw. I do not own a radial arm saw, but I used one extensively in the past, at a time when I did not have a table saw. I used it to build furniture, a kitchen remodel, a room addition, and a large house. I used the radial arm saw for everything that my table saw does for me now, including crosscuts, rip cuts, bevel cuts, miter cuts, and whatever other cuts I missed, including compound cuts. No doubt about it, radial arm saws are versatile woodworking tools. 

Here are my _personal beliefs_ about radial arm saws, bandsaws, and table saws. They are based on my experience with the tools, _NOT_ on the study that was mentioned above.

Based on my personal experience using the tools, I believe that radial arm saws are more dangerous than bandsaws or table saws. If you take a statistically large sampling of woodworkers and have them use those tools "equally", I believe that the radial arm saw will result in the highest number of severe injuries. My definition of "more dangerous" is "results in more injuries than other tools when used comparably." Reminder: This is a personal belief based on my own experience. I do not have data to back it up.

I believe that the reason radial arm saw injury counts are low in the study because few people used radial arm saws by the time the study was performed in 2007-2008, especially compared with the number of people who used bandsaws and table saws at that same time. It is a personal belief; the study does not tell us one way or the other.

I believe that a skilled operator can reduce the chance of serious injury to very low levels on all tools, including radial arm saws, bandsaws, and table saws. The skilled operator cannot eliminate all chances of injury, because tools and materials are not perfect. A defective part in a tool may fail in a way that injures the operator. Materials may have flaws that cannot be detected in advance. 

If we could all improve our still levels regarding tool safety, overall injury rates would naturally decline. The problem is that for every highly trained, "safe" woodworker, there are a hundred kids who are planted in front of a crude power saw and made to build products in a place where the training is limited to pointing at the exposed blade and saying, "Don't touch that!"

There is a tradeoff between safety and productivity. I work slowly and methodically. Because I am a hobbyist, I can afford the extra time it takes to be extra safe. On the one hand, we can build tools and procedures to make woodworking as safe as commercial aviation, but it would drive production costs to an absurd level. On the other hand, you can boost productivity by reducing safety, which is how some companies eliminate their competitors who are constrained by safety regulations that are actually followed (and possibly enforced by regulators). I have observed that tool safety features improve over time, but I am not sure how well they trickle down to where labor-intensive production happens in poor countries. 

To be honest, I miss the radial arm saw. Once in a while, I dream about buying one. They don't cost much. The fantasy is more about the good days of the past, and not so much about the need for the tool. The bubble bursts when I remember some of the hassles and drawbacks of radial arm saws. Things that come to mind are the challenges of long rip cuts, and the huge pile of sawdust behind the saw. 

(Decades ago, we didn't worry much about dust collection from any of our tools, including the radial arm saw. When the sawdust pile got to the point where it could be measured in cubic yards, we would clean it up. We have learned a lot about the dangers of sawdust since then.)


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> The number of replies that support the RAS are in the majority by far.
> You can come to your own conclusions whether you understand statistical analysis OR the survey results. Most folks that own them and use them, like them and have used them safely. There were millions made and a million recalled, but that doesn't mean everyone turned their RAS in to collect the "ransom". I didn't for certain and I own about 5 of them. As a machine operator, if you use them wisely and correctly they are safe.
> 
> Just like any other dangerous device, Xacto knives, Stanley knives, hand saws, motorcycles, and yes even firearms. Safety is a "mindset", not a property of a device. Revolvers have no safety, most semi autos do, so which firearm is more safe...? :vs_cool:


Thank you for responding to my notes. I appreciate your contributions to the discussion, and have read them carefully. We seem to be talking past each other, so I will give up on this thread.


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## Mycrossover (May 18, 2018)

FrankC said:


> That is a matter of opinion, usually held by those that have never actually used a radial arm saw and are only repeating what they have been told. Like most tools, not as good for some things, superior at others.


There is a reason radial arm saws have virtually disappeared. Sliding miter saws have replaced their most useful function. Most of them were Emerson made Craftsman. I might have a higher opinion of them if I had owned a better one. The Craftsman was a total POS. I would never hold the adjustments. The base was so poorly formed that I had to shim it to get MDF the table to sit flat. The list goes on. They were also a safety hazard. Emerson will still pay $100 for the prepaid return of the motor to get certain models out of circulation.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Shop_Rat (Dec 22, 2015)

Tool Agnostic said:


> ... I currently own a table saw and a bandsaw...
> 
> To be honest, I miss the radial arm saw. Once in a while, I dream about buying one. They don't cost much. The fantasy is more about the good days of the past, and not so much about the need for the tool. The bubble bursts when I remember some of the hassles and drawbacks of radial arm saws. *Things that come to mind are the challenges of long rip cuts, and the huge pile of sawdust behind the saw... *


Maybe you need both!

I wouldn't be without any of my saws (including my compound slider). Each one has it's duties. I don't rip on the RAS, and I don't crosscut on the TS. I own both saws simply for that convenience. 

I have a very long table on both sides of the RAS blade. I can put a twelve foot board left and crosscut it, and do the same thing six feet to the right of the blade. The long table also doubles for an eighteen foot long assembly bench. And, as a bonus, it's a bit higher than my main workbench.

The table saw has a fairly long outfeed table, so ripping long boards is quite comfortable. Most all I have to do is steer. 

I do not cut sheet goods on either saw unless they've been carved up a bit beforehand. I lay sheet goods flat on an open frame and use a homemade track saw to size the stuff... Well what-do-you know? Turns out my circular saw is just as important as any stationary tool in the arsenal (and just as dangerous too)!

I admit the sawdust buildup behind the RAS. I built a funnel looking contraption for the dust collector, and it does a fairly good job of getting the blowback. But there are still a few grains that escape the suction pipe, and it is this windfall that the War Wagon uses to make fire starters for both us and as gifts every fall. She cleans well behind the machine when this task is at hand. Win Win for me!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I've said this many times before ..*

Each machine does one thing better than any other machine. 

RAS cross cut best because you can have a fence as long as you want on either side of the blade to register against, no wiggle/wobble like a miter gauge. Table saws rip best because the fence is easily adjustable a precise distnace from the blade, but you do need an outfeed table for safety as well as supporting the workpeice. You do NOT want to reach around or over a spinning blade to catch your workpiece or the off fall.
The larger the table, the safer the saw. 

On a rip, you should always push the workpiece all the way past the rear of the blade with a proper push device. The saw should have either a riving knife which moves up and down with the blade or as on older saws, a splitter which will help maintain the work against the fence.

A sliding compound miter saw is great for miters, but there's a length limit on short pieces which are best done with a sled or extended miter fence on the table saw.

I have and use all 3 types of saws and a large sled for the table saw. When you get a complete shop full of woodworking machines you will understand what we are talking about. :surprise2:
There is no one single machine that does every operation with the best accuracy or the easist setup or the safest conditions.


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

I agree with shoprat 100%. Sounds like my sop is set up like his. Each saw does certain things better than the other and each saw does an excellent job. My radial arm saw is a craftsman. I have used and abused it and it still cuts square and works well. I'd be lost with out. If you have a long fence on each side or the blade, you will soon realize how handy a RAS is.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I've owned about 18 Craftsman ras's. Used 3, turned in about 15 for the $100 bounty.
The older saws are 100 percent better than the approx. 1970+ saws.
An old DeWalt is much better than any Craftsman saw. 
Mine is a 12" DeWalt, with a 10" blade.
With a sharp blade, no problem self feeding.
Ras's (good ones) shine for crosscutting, and dados.


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## tewitt1949 (Nov 26, 2013)

I have 3-4 10 inch blades made by Forrest. I really like them. Anyways, I've talked to them (Forrest) on the phone and he told me Never, Never, Never put any blade with less than 40 teeth on a radial arm saw. He says if you do it will catch and stall the blade much, much easier that a 40 plus tooth blade. That makes for much more chance or getting hurt.


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## MeasureTwice (Jan 12, 2012)

*Sorry I sold mine!*

Bought a Craftsman RAS in the late 70's early 80's. Sold it a few years back in favor of a table saw and space requirements. BUT until I read on forums that it was unsafe, I cut thousands of bf on the RAS. Both crosscut and ripping! Sure am glad I didn't know it was that dangerous. 

Regret to this day that I sold it. Looking at the same model at an estate sale today. Depending on the bidding, I'm hoping to pick it up at a good price. 

I didn't have any close calls, or any incidents at all for that matter. But then again I maintain a healthy respect (and a little fear) for ALL of my tools, power and hand. Maybe that's why I'm looking to get another RAS.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*just make certain ......*

Check your carriage for any play.The V groove rollers are adjustable so you can remove any play in the carriage. The bolts are cams and the nuts can be loosened to tighten the rollers against the rails. If there is too much play the carriage may want to ride up on the pull stroke. This is a common lack of maintenance and results in a dangerous condition. :vs_cool:


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