# Vacuum Vs. Longworth Chuck



## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Since purchasing my Grizzly, I have found that I have outgrown the capacity of my cole jaws and am looking at either a 16" longworth chuck or going with a vacuum chuck. Since I am looking at about a $50 difference in costs so that is not much of an issue there. I have never used either and am wondering where to spend my money. I have this lathe: http://grizzly.com/products/20-x-43-Heavy-Duty-Variable-Speed-Wood-Lathe/G0694

Thanks, guys!


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## saculnhoj (May 18, 2015)

I dearly love my Vacuum chuck. I have all sorts of other ways to reverse mount things but prefer the vacuum most of the time.


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## Woodychips (Oct 3, 2015)

I have a Longworth chuck gathering dust in my shop. It's a useless tool. Don't have a vacuum chuck. I just use thick CA glue with waste blocks to reverse chuck everything.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I'd go with a vacuum chuck, but it will probably cost more than $50 more.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

I can't remember the exact setup I saw in one of my catalogs (at work right now) but I recall the head and the rotory adapter coming to around $120 and the pump that doesn't need a compressor from a certain freight store by the harbor for $150. I have to recheck my head numbers for sure, but I recall it came to about $250 or so for the setup before shipping.

Longworth 16" was $199 from woodcraft and Rockler.


Edit: here is thevacuum head: http://www.amazon.com/Vacuum-Drum-C...ie=UTF8&qid=1444260262&sr=1-1&keywords=vacuum

From the looks of it, I just need to add the pump.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

This is the one I was thinking of. See the get all three option below the descritpion for $188.

http://www.amazon.com/Vacuum-Head-1...8&qid=1404153118&sr=8-6&keywords=vacuum+chuck


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## saculnhoj (May 18, 2015)

That's just the vacuum adaptor. You have to conduct the vacuum through the spindle. Which reminds me you need a spindle with a hole bored all the way through. If you don't you can't use a vacuum chuck. 
There are two types of vacuum chucks. Vacuum pumps and Venturi pumps. Don't confuse the cheap Venturi pumps sold by Harbour Freights. They are extremely noisy and require a huge amount of air. The Holdfast vacuum pump sold for turners will work fine if you have a compressor. If not you need the vacuum pumps. 
I have plans if I can find them on how to build your own version of the EZ vacuum chuck which is one method of conducting the vacuum through your spindle. It's also quite easy to build your own chuck for the vacuum.


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## 9thousandfeet (Dec 28, 2014)

I use vacuum chucks.
I make my own chucks, which is not difficult, and there are "how-to-do-it" articles online all over the place.
I don't know which vacuum pump you're thinking of using, but ones that really work are not inexpensive. 
I use one of these from JT tools, which is close to $250 now including shipping. You need a pump with a decent air flow, around 4cfm say, otherwise porous woods will bleed air in faster than the pump can keep up and you'll lose holding ability.

You'll also need a vacuum gauge and a bleed valve somewhere handy, along with a really really good inline filter, 'cos you don't want your pump sucking in any wood dust. 

You need the bleed valve to lower the vacuum for delicate workpieces, otherwise you'll crush them, and you need the gauge to know how much vacuum you're using. Seriously.

All in all, once you get a vacuum setup running, and get the hang of it, there's no going back - I just love mine. 
But I seriously doubt you're going to accomplish that for less than $400 by the time you get everything you need, and that's if you make your own chucks.

I'll just add that the difference in convenience of use between a Longworth chuck and a vacuum setup is huge. Vacuum is much more versatile and a whole lot faster.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I already have a 6 cfm pump. How much do you think it would cost to get a working setup if I built my own chuck?


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## 9thousandfeet (Dec 28, 2014)

hwebb99 said:


> I already have a 6 cfm pump. How much do you think it would cost to get a working setup if I built my own chuck?


Building chucks is inexpensive and there are all kinds of ways to do it. Info on that is easy to find. I have some which are attached to inexpensive faceplates and a couple of little ones in wood which I threaded myself with a 1.25 x 8 tap.
You'll eventually need several chucks for work of different sizes. 

If you have a pump which will pull at least 18" mercury and has enough cfm, then all you need which costs money (for your 3520) is an adapter. 

Talk to the guys at JT tools - they know this territory real well. Here's their adapter for the Powermatic. Check with them though, 'cos your 3520 is older and might use a different thread or something than the newer 3520B.
It's $109 plus shipping. They make one to fit a lot of kinds of lathes.

Then you just need vacuum hose to connect the adapter to the pump, via the inline filter and with a tee off to one side for the bleed valve. You need a vacuum gauge inline there too otherwise you're flying blind.

JT tools sell a kit to make all that up for about $100, but if you scrounge around you could probably gather all the parts for less. And you have access to a machine shop too, so you're in better shape for saving money than most of us.

Lathes which don't have a hole all the way through the spindle won't work. (Well, there is a way, but let's not go there right now)

Some lathes have the hole, but it's not airtight and won't hold vacuum, so you have to run a tube all the way through the spindle to hold the vacuum.

Your Powermatic has an airtight hole all the way, so you don't need a tube and you can attach the adapter at the handwheel end and put a vacuum chuck on the spindle nose and you're good to go.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

The machine shop doesn't save me any money. It results in creations like my bowl lathe that cost more money.


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

I have a Holdfast that I bought about 3 or 4 yrs ago and used it about maybe 3 times,worked great but I needed something for large pieces and made me a cole jaws set and it will hold up to an 18 " bowls,so I don't use the vac anymore,if anybody is interested I will take 100.00 for it.


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## mikeshoops (Apr 3, 2014)

With a Beall tap, you can build any size vacuum chuck you want with PFC connectors. Just turn a rabbet to the inset diameter, glue, and apply self adhering closed cell foam which is cheap. I personally use the Holdfast system I got on sale. I considered just buying the vacuum adapter as opposed to building my own, but the kit seemed cost effective and works well. Holdfast make a fixed chuck reversing adapter for the tail sock for about $40. For $110 you can get a LIVE center chuck adapter from Nova with their live center kit or a similar kit from oneway for about $160 with 1 1/4" threads. These have multiple uses, especially for double chucking on long spindles and tapping threads for things like bottle stoppers, Beall taps, and threaded inserts. I bought the 1" live center adapter from Penn State Industries for about $40, which I love. They don't make a larger version yet; if you want a live center for your lathe, it will cost you$$$$$. Grizzly does make a reducer for your lathe, but it kind of defeats the benefit of a larger spindle. 

I agree with others on the thread that vacuum chucking is more versatile, especially for natural edge bowls. Cole jaws or Longsworth chucks may be better on open segmented turnings or defective/cracked pieces. Dick McCoy uses these for his incredible bracelets with homemade bumpers out of plastic wine stoppers. I hope this helps, good luck.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

hwebb99 said:


> The machine shop doesn't save me any money. It results in creations like my bowl lathe that cost more money.


:vs_laugh:

I have built several rotary couplers (the part that fits onto the handwheel to couple the vacuum line to the rotating spindle), however, by the time that I have gathered up all the necessary parts and spent a month or two solving problems to make them work right, I figure that I save a few dollars and learned a lot about what not to do along the way to learning what I should do. I bought a rotary adapter for my Robust, made by *JT Turning Tools*, and it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Check it out ... I highly recommend it. Anyway, get the rotary adapter, a needle valve for bleed air, a small filter for the bleed air (a sintered metal filter works well for this), a larger five micron filter (that goes in the vacuum line to the rotary coupler), a vacuum gauge with a large face so that it is easy to read, vacuum line hose (compressor rubber air line hose works well for this), a brass cross with ¼"NPT female threads), a brass T (also with ¼"NPT male threads), a couple ball valves, hose barbs, hose clamps, pipe dope, vacuum chucks, and miscellaneous items.

The vacuum gauge connects to one arm of the cross, the bleed air valve connects to another arm of the cross, an air line to the vacuum pump connects to another arm of the cross, and the five micro filter connects to the fourth arm of the cross. The other side of the filter go to the rotary coupler.

One arm of the brass T connects to the vacuum pump. and a ball valve goes tot eh other two legs. One of the two ball valves vents to outside air (when cooling down the pump) and the other ball valve goes to the air line that connects to the cross. You can get by without the T and ball valves, but I find them to be convenient so that is why I use them.

I also build my own vacuum chucks. The design was my own creation. I believe that I referenced it in another recent thread.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Thanks for the input, fellas. After reading what everyone has said, I have to agree that the versatility of a vacuum chuck over longworth type chucks is probably the best way to go for me. I started having doubts about the longworth when I was looking at some of the recent bowls I have done which have the rim curved back downward which would make a longworth chuck pointless. I have looked at a few of the built it yourself sort of setups and was intrigued. I have just been hesitant to go that route as I have found more often than not I ultimately end up putting the money out to buy a more precise version of whatever the tools is. The shop built vaccum cup part is something I can certainly do. I like what you mosted about JT Tools, Bill and will be reaching out to them to see if they make something that would fit my grizzly. I have found that some things on my grizzly are considered an odd size (tool rest post diameter for one) and have had to source places which could make a version of theirs in the correct post diameter as I have had hit or miss luck with making my own adapters for the 5/8" necks on the few I have from an old lathe that I really liked for getting inside the smaller openings compared to the beam of the included rest.

Anyway, getting off topic here. Normally, I have not been too picky and have had success in using jam chucks for holding to remove the tenons, but, with the new branding iron I have bought, I need to be more accurate with the flatness and have had mixed results with using a forstner bit which leaves that annoying pilot hole in the center. I just need to be able to get my tailstock out of the way entirely so I can cut the base completely flat and sand it up.

Again, thank you all for the input: this is why I put the question out there. :thumbsup:


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## tom brouillette (Jan 15, 2015)

Barry Ward said:


> I have a Holdfast that I bought about 3 or 4 yrs ago and used it about maybe 3 times,worked great but I needed something for large pieces and made me a cole jaws set and it will hold up to an 18 " bowls,so I don't use the vac anymore,if anybody is interested I will take 100.00 for it.


How big is the chuck? I would be interested.


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## saculnhoj (May 18, 2015)

I found my PDF on how to make an EZ vacuum adaptor and chucks. If you send an e-mail to johncluca[email protected] I will forward it to you. 
That being said I have turned an awful lot of bowls without any reverse turning tool. I start my bowls between centers and turn the bottom first. There is always a center hole from the tailstock. I leave it there sometimes with a small tenon inside the big foot tenon . This will fit in the center space of my chuck so I don't have to turn it away at that time. when I finish the inside of the bowl I put a piece of rubber over the chuck and reverse the bowl onto that. That tailstock then goes back into the original hole and I can then reshape the foot anyway I want. that last thing I do is remove the little tenon by carving it away. 
I wrote an article for out club many years ago on different ways to reverse a bowl to turn the bottom. Here is a link to it. 
http://nebula.wsimg.com/7bf500f3fd5...EC0DC707F1FE36FCB&disposition=0&alloworigin=1


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## Jerry Maske (Dec 29, 2013)

Haven't made the jump into the Vacuum pump idea yet and don't know when I will. So, I'm still using the Longworth Chuck, for good or bad.

Actually, they work pretty well as long as you follow the directions. Tighten them in a Star Pattern, going to opposite nubs, and stay below 500 rpm. Actually, 300 is better. And remember that this is NOT a tool used to hog out a lot of wood. Detail cutting and sanding the bottom only. 

Having said all that, I typically add the tail stock for support until I can't get around it any longer and then do the final cutting and sanding. Usually does a pretty nice job. Have had a couple pieces catch and go flying off into the other end of the shop. Used words I haven't used since boot camp!


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

tom brouillette said:


> How big is the chuck? I would be interested.


It has the 6" vac cup with the 1 1/4" threads


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

saculnhoj said:


> ... Here is a link to it.
> http://nebula.wsimg.com/7bf500f3fd5...EC0DC707F1FE36FCB&disposition=0&alloworigin=1


Bad link.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Barry Ward said:


> I have a Holdfast that I bought about 3 or 4 yrs ago and used it about maybe 3 times,worked great but I needed something for large pieces and made me a cole jaws set and it will hold up to an 18 " bowls,so I don't use the vac anymore,if anybody is interested I will take 100.00 for it.



What all parts do you have for the Holdfast?


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

It has everything you need to use it.The gen,hose and 6" Vac cup and like said.it works great.You will need a compressor with at least 2.5 cfm.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Barry Ward said:


> It has everything you need to use it.The gen,hose and 6" Vac cup and like said.it works great.You will need a compressor with at least 2.5 cfm.


Any way you could post a pic of all the stuff? Definitely interested. Does the setup you have use that venturi setup that requires an air compressor rather than being a diaphragm vacuum pump?


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

I havn't figured out how to post pics from this new laptop I got last yr :thumbdown: but if you google holdfast vac chucks on amazon.com it has a pic of exactly what I have,hope it helps.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Barry, thanks for the info. I looked at the setup and will pass on that one. I didn't want to have to plug my compressor into it. Thanks for the offer, though.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Here is a huge advantage to vacuum. With any type of jaws you have to sand and finish the rim before reversing the piece. It is extremely difficult to make the transition blend in. Despite my best efforts you can still see a line. It must not be very noticeable because several people have looked at the finished piece and haven't noticed. A vacuum chuck leaves the whole underside clear to work with.


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## thenodemaster (Jun 14, 2015)

Good to know. Going vacuum chuck as soon as I get some $$$ I am waiting for.


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## Woodychips (Oct 3, 2015)

You can easily use thick CA glue to attach a waste block inside your bowl. Use it to hold on to while finishing the whole outside of your bowl. Leave a very small rim base to chuck to and finish the inside. Hit the waste block with a hammer to pop it off. No need for a vacuum or the Longworth.


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## tom brouillette (Jan 15, 2015)

Barry Ward said:


> I have a Holdfast that I bought about 3 or 4 yrs ago and used it about maybe 3 times,worked great but I needed something for large pieces and made me a cole jaws set and it will hold up to an 18 " bowls,so I don't use the vac anymore,if anybody is interested I will take 100.00 for it.


Barry, I sent you a PM about this. Let me know if you still have it.


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## tom brouillette (Jan 15, 2015)

Barry Ward said:


> I have a Holdfast that I bought about 3 or 4 yrs ago and used it about maybe 3 times,worked great but I needed something for large pieces and made me a cole jaws set and it will hold up to an 18 " bowls,so I don't use the vac anymore,if anybody is interested I will take 100.00 for it.


Barry, I sent you a PM about this. Let me know if you still have it.


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