# Attaching trim to Bricks



## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

I am doing some trim work on the inside of an old downtown building. The old bricks have been exposed after removing a plaster finish and there is a gap between the bricks and the tin ceiling that needs filling so I made 135 feet of trim this afternoon.










The question I have is: Can I glue the trim to the bricks? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest?

If I need a mechanical fastener, do you guys prefer using Tapcon screws, or do you use anchors and screws, or something else?


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I wouldn't use a mechanical fastner*

My only experience with outdoor adhesives is with Liquid Nails and it works very well. I understand you are using it indoors, even better! The stuff is really strong and very tough and grips like a Gorilla.

Holding it in place until the adhesive sets is the only issue I see. Tape or hot glue comes to mind. Prop sticks or nails driven into the mortar may also work.


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## bargoon (Apr 20, 2016)

I found our local concrete-block supplier stocks various adhesives for attaching to masonry products.

You might check in your area.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Terry Q said:


> I am doing some trim work on the inside of an old downtown building. The old bricks have been exposed after removing a plaster finish and there is a gap between the bricks and the tin ceiling that needs filling so I made 135 feet of trim this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I would do is use liquid nails to glue the trim on and shoot 2 1/2" finish nails in the brick mortar to hold it until the liquid nails sets up. If the mortar turns out to be too hard for the nails you might have to cut sticks to hold the molding in place.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Sorry Terry, I read..."old downtown building"...and that alone would absolutely go against the ethos of proper restoration work to use any type of adhesive on those bricks!!! That is virtually impossible to reverse should changes need/want to be made by someone in the future without damaging the bricks irreversibly. 

I admit my context is a Historic Restorationist, but can further share in some areas this (if the building is in an historic district) can carry fines and penalties to do any type of:

"...non-reversible cosmetic augmentation, rendition or design work..."

Traditionally or within conservation modalities several methods are employed:

1. Pre-drill a fine hole for a finish nail that would go into a mortar joint...

This is tedious, and my least favorite, but doable....Once you get going its not bad and more than secure enough. The finish nail can be dipped in something like Tight-bond III for a more secure hold...

2. Due this as period molding style (which your profile shown looks fine within that context) and use a cut nail or cut finish nail that goes into a mortar joint. The rustic/traditional affect is pleasant.

3. Mortar is remove around key bricks along the wall, and in corners (saved of course) and "mounting bricks" use to replace them and lime or clay mortared back into place. The "mounting brick" are made of wood, and provide a stable nail base. A Cape chisel is used to remove the mortar before extracting the brick..

My 2¢ on this...

Let me know if I can help further if you do have an interest an these more germane methods to working on historic structures...


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## shoot summ (Feb 21, 2014)

How big is the "gap" between the bricks and the ceiling?

Could you make some nail blocks that could be placed in the gap? A little adhesive of your choice once they are in, and away you go.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

The gap is 7/8 wide. There was a wooden strip installed behind the tin ceiling that I believe was used as a reference for the concrete plaster thickness which was put on before the ceiling. It isn’t a consistent depth from the bottom of the tin to the wooden strip.

I made the trim 15/16 thick, and tool off 1/16 off the top to reference off the ceiling when installing, and as a backer if I need to tack the tin ceiling down. 










The trim is 2 1/4 wide red oak, which is plentiful and relatively inexpensive from a local mill. I’m just going to spray it with an amber shellac. Lots more trim work to do.











In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## pro70z28 (Feb 26, 2018)

How sturdy/stable is the tinwork? Can you pin nail through the tin, into the oak trim?


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

pro70z28 said:


> How sturdy/stable is the tinwork? Can you pin nail through the tin, into the oak trim?




It is fairly sturdy, but I don’t want to suspend the molding from it, I don’t want any surprises. It would hold it in place long enough to glue to set, but is currently free from holes, so I’m not anxious to do that, even though I figured I’d have to in places.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

Reversible or not I'd glue it. In that application I wouldn't use construction adhesive inside I'd use Sika sealant. Construction adhesive will dry hard. Sealant will grab hard to both the back of the moulding and the brick but remain permanently flexible. To fasten I'd drill 5/32 holes, jamb 1/8" dowels into the holes and drive trim screws


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*We have our experts here ...*



Justin Huisenga said:


> Reversible or not I'd glue it. In that application I wouldn't use construction adhesive inside I'd use Sika sealant. Construction adhesive will dry hard. Sealant will grab hard to both the back of the moulding and the brick but remain permanently flexible. To fasten I'd drill 5/32 holes, jamb 1/8" dowels into the holes and drive trim screws



Justin is an expert/professional when it comes to trim. His posts are always informative and above the cut in skill and knowledge. :vs_cool:


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Justin is an expert/professional when it comes to trim. His posts are always informative and above the cut in skill and knowledge. :vs_cool:


I'm curious, when something is "professional" in one context becomes "bad practice" in another...Which does one consider the better choice?

I only share the perspectives and actualities below, for other readers here that may face similar challenges with historic property they are now stewards over. 

In the UK, Scotland, and other such locations with established standards (and laws) for protecting "historic fabric" of architecture, these recommendations would not only be..."unprofessional"...they would also accompany fines and penalties, as well as, loss of contracting license. 

Since the unset of programs, and magazines like "This Old House" and related, we have had more and more General Contractors move into the "Restoration Profession" creating more issues than actually maintaining and/or protecting the vintage materials they are put in charge of. All in the name of a paycheck...or..."just getting the job done" as easy as possible without due consideration of the context of their work down the road. Often now I have to...professionally...undo what someone was told is..."good practice,"...of course this is after the harm and permanent destruction has been done...

This OP's query is just another example to that...and a current case (one of decades worth) I am going to be dealing with this summer on a Carriage Barn, where concrete is poured and things are "glued on" without any due course or consideration of the vintage fabric they are attached to or the damage it causes...Parts of this structure are now irreversibly destroyed by just such advice as I read here.

If a property owner chooses to not follow such recommendation because the "historic fabric" really isn't worth that much, or for some other reason they may have...does not change...what is "good practice" and what is "bad practice." They should get all the options explained thoroughly to them...

I'll close this post with a talking point within my professional field as a Historic Preservationist that is often shared and commiserate over at meetings and conferences, especially here in America...

"...A man's castle may be his castle...This is true. However, if a someone chooses to buy a castle, or inherits one...They, as responsible stewards, should have the ethos of proper care due a castle, and not treat it less than it is..."

This why there is the ethos within actual professionals of the Historic Restoration fields to know the difference between Conservation, Restoration, and Replication in regards to:

"...Like for like, in means, methods, and materials..." 

and what "General Contracting" is and how its conducted...They are different professions...the same practices do not apply...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I posted my opinion of a member's skills*



woodnthings said:


> Justin is an expert/professional when it comes to trim. His posts are always informative and above the cut in skill and knowledge. :vs_cool:


My post is based on my reading his replies over quite a few years. 

The advice given by members is "usually" based on first hand experience and you can tell when that is not the case... typically.
Professionals can disagree on an approach and often do.... there's more than one way to skin a cat or make a cut or a jig etc. I don't think that the members here are posting their opinions to "screw each other over" by giving bad advice. A traditional approach based on historic processes may not be appropriate or even desired in certain circumstances. 

I find it's best to give it "your best shot" and walk away or if further explanation is needed or requested, do that. All opinions are welcome professional or otherwise ... and that's just my opinion. :smile2:

For reference:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/search.php?searchid=11986634


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> My post is based on my reading his replies over quite a few years...The advice given by members is "usually" based on first hand experience and you can tell when that is not the case... typically.
> 
> I find it's best to give it "your best shot" and walk away or if further explanation is needed or requested, do that. All opinions are welcome professional or otherwise ... and that's just my opinion. :smile2:


I agree with all of that...and its a foundation of why I post...and post again, on OP about different subjects. Its not just one conversation...for sure...but a multitude of them, and also many readers that never post...



woodnthings said:


> ...Professionals can disagree on an approach and often do.... there's more than one way to skin a cat or make a cut or a jig etc. I don't think that the members here are posting their opinions to "screw each other over" by giving bad advice. A traditional approach based on historic processes may not be appropriate or even desired in certain circumstances...


Very true.

Professionals can disagree (respectfully) and try to learn at the same time, yet I find the latter to happen less often.

As to, "...traditional approach..." in context to preservation, its always appropriate...Or should be.

To continue to propagate and make excuses for "bad practice" (which is done all the time) will only see more and more of our historic fabrics of architecture adulterated, abused and destroyed, not only here in America but around the world. That is not an opinion, that is a simple reality I see each year as more is destroyed by "bad practice" and excuses to employ them because of "circumstances" or "desires," are made for doing so...


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 2, 2011)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> I'm curious, when something is "professional" in one context becomes "bad practice" in another...Which does one consider the better choice?
> 
> I only share the perspectives and actualities below, for other readers here that may face similar challenges with historic property they are now stewards over.
> 
> ...


If the situation presented by the OP required that the work be reversible I would have made due with only the trim screws driven into the doweled holes. If not then the moulding would be backed with sealant to minimize the number of visible fasteners required. Minimum number of visible fasteners is considered best practice to a millwork contractor.

The pics are from a home that last year I replaced every single piece of trim in to return it to its original look. Every single stick was run through my moulder to match the existing profiles. All doors that could be reused were trued up, had the hardware reworked and hung in new jambs. Those that could not be due to damage and warpage I built replacements for. I built the jambs as splits to accommodate the varying wall thicknesses. Historically accurate? Not even a little, but a common practise on high end millwork projects because it allows the carpenter to adjust the jamb for cross plumb, and adjust the jamb to the wall thickness and pull the trim tight to the wall. The walls were not being stripped and the original wall paper was to remain intact so there was no possibility of floating walls to new trim. Stops on the jambs were milled loose to further facilitate hiding fasteners. The installed jamb pictured went into a closet whose trim was to remain paint grade thus the oak poplar combo. 

Standing and running trim was milled wider and taller than original to ensure that the trim would always cover the old wall paper lines. Base was made 1/2" taller than original and casing was 3/8" wider. Back band was milled with two bevel angles in the rabbets to allow for it to be cut in a manner similar to crown on a "spring angle" of sorts to allow it to hinge tight to the walls. Rabbet on the base cap was similarly milled. Base, cap, shoe and back band were all installed prefinished due to existing flooring and wall paper. To a millwork contractor prefin ALWAYS means glue and hiding as many fasteners as physically possible. Base was nailed below the shoe line and toe nailed through the corner of the top edge and backed with glue. Cap was backed with glue and nailed with 21 gauge pins to minimize the size of the visible fastener.

The methods used to install are not historically accurate by any means and will likely make a purist cringe but they allowed me to deliver a product that will outlive both the current stewards of this particular castle and myself and look exactly the way that they did when I installed them. The owners of this home as with many who have inherited or purchased older homes are not people of unlimited means but still want to bring their homes back to a condition approximating new. the install methods I outlined allowed me to deliver that to them with a reasonable price tag and minimum invasion to the home. I'd make the argument that my install methodology is superior to that of the original carpenters who built the home. Having inspected their work close and given their attention to detail I wouldn't consider it a stretch to say that if the materials, adhesives, and fastening methods that we have today had been at their disposal they would have used a good number of them.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Justin Huisenga said:


> ...Historically accurate? Not even a little, but...
> 
> The methods used to install are not historically accurate by any means and will likely make a purist cringe but...
> 
> ...


Hello Justin,

That work presented looks top quality! I would never detract or belabor that...It would be folly and I dare say disrespectful to your efforts to do so...

I'm also not trying to counter your technical advise and agree completely that for a "Millwork Contractor" the best practice standards are just as you stated them in your post...

Nevertheless, all "buts" in the quoate above and the final comment that "they would use it" is what I experience all the time when speaking with clients about other bidders to projects...

It is typical justification for doing something by a contractor (no mater the type or how they endeavor to do it well) to use whatever means, method or material they see fit to use...no mater the architectures age or historic significance...Simply put, that is justification...not a necessity.

If we had (and I wish we did) have the rules and regulations to protect historic fabric that other regions and countries have, it simply would not be allowed, and isn't in the places that actully care to protect such architecture... 

I have access to the same means, methods and materials as any other contractor...So do the colleagues I work with, in the realm of "historic restoration." We make the ethical and conscious choice to do otherwise...

Too often the property owners aren't given a choice by a contractor or millwright, but "sold" on the method that individual contractor wishes to use...Buyer beware, is all I can say to that...

You do good work it appears, you also recognise...*it is not*....restoration work and I thank you for that very much. I would also acknowledge that not all "historic work" is of the best quality, just as you observed.  Of that there is no doubt.

Nevertheless, if I upgrade the work, it is still period specific. Many structure are not any major significance historically to mandate an exact material specific restoration. On these, it the client wishes, I share employ better materials, finishes and tools to fashion it...

I would also suggest, as I do achieve all the time...it is no more expensive to do so than if I use modern contracting methods as you suggest they be done...I am too often told by clients that the other contractors they meet with tell them how expensive actual restoration work is...Which I find amusing as this always comes from contractors that have never actually done historic restoration work? Often I'm less expensive...as the work is just done differently...not with less effort to attention to detail nor less professionalism...If done well, and price appropriately it should be really close by comparison...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Great discussion!*

My observation on the posts above:
Given enough time and period correct methods and tools, Jay would save all the historic buildings in the world.:vs_cool:
Given limited time and resources, Justin would just fix them and do a damn fine job. :vs_cool:

Both professionals, just different approaches.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Wait, did i miss something here? All the original post said was 'old downtown building', when did it become a historical landmark? Old doesnt mean historical restoration candidate, my 101 year old house can attest to that. Sure, its got some age to it, but it sure isnt worth trying to keep everything original and period appropriate.

Personally i like Jerrys method, with the big *unless* being unless the building youre working on is actually a historic landmark. If its just an old building though, well, depends on the time and effort youre willing to spend going the extra few miles


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> My observation on the posts above:
> Given enough time and period correct methods and tools, Jay would save all the historic buildings in the world.:vs_cool:
> Given limited time and resources, Justin would just fix them and do a damn fine job. :vs_cool:
> 
> Both professionals, just different approaches.


Thank's Brother...Your right I would...but I know I can't...LOL!!!...BUT, by the Creator I shall try!!!...:vs_laugh:

I can try to get folks to think, and know that the "original ways" are not out of their reach, nor more expensive...nor do they take that much more time for the most part...They are just a different way and too often overlooked or *made excuses not to use *because they haven't been learned....

Thank's for you post!


>>>




epicfail48 said:


> ...when did it become a historical landmark?


Hmmm...well I don't think anyone did???

I didn't, that's for sure...:vs_laugh:



epicfail48 said:


> ...Old doesn't mean historical restoration candidate, my 101 year old house can attest to that...


Ah well...now we have a point worth discussing and understanding on that matter...:nerd2:

in some places it very much does!

If a structure is over 100 years old or of a period specific nature, or has structures around it that are of the same period, then it is deemed significant enough to mandate a certain type of care. 

It also effects real estate values considerably, as they've learned in the New England states and other locations as well now by some major losses of value measured in the millions. Not to protect any historic enclave in proper methods of care hits valuation very hard every time...or it will in time. 

Its happened to many times that "modernization" has drug the cost down of a neighborhood where others made the concerted effort to keep the historic affect to their structures, but someone (often a developer or contractor) that chooses to "modernize" without considering the consequences. They get to..."get in and get out"...flipping a period home or structure for a quick profit, which they make...but with little regard, respect or consideration to others nor the architecture.



epicfail48 said:


> ...Sure, its got some age to it, but it sure isnt worth trying to keep everything original and period appropriate...


Why? It should in my view, but you are welcome to yours by all means...:wink:

Having done this kind of work on and off for over 40 years, and watching the different trends come and go, I can speak with some authority that this notion that "modern is better" is complete and utter nonsense. Its based on "marketing" and what people choose to do...not a better method or approach.

The main thing I ask at conventions, meetings and other venue like this one, is have respect. 

If you want to "modernize" a structure to a style and taste outside the context of the original builder (which I find kind of distasteful and disrespectful to them...but that's just me being a silly traditionalist...LOL...I know it...:icon_rolleyes::nerd: ) Then at least do it so you do not destroy the underlying historic materials (aka fabric) by those methods and make them "reversible" for others in the future to do differently if they choose. I know most folks don't like it if decisions are made for them, why do others get to do if for those that come after them?



epicfail48 said:


> ...depends on the time and effort you're willing to spend going the extra few miles...


This is another major point of contention...!!!

I am constantly being told about cost, and effort and hardship and...yada, yada, yada...I does make my blood boil sometimes...>

This always comes...or at least 99% of the time from somebody that has never walked into a forest to get there wood for a project or into a quarry to get stone for a foundation or a clay pit to get materials to make tile...YET!!! they are going to school me or a client about how difficult, challenging and expensive something is...!!!

What the heck?? 

Folks really should (in my view) ask questions first...They shouldn't inform or make proclamations on this topic unless they actual have those skill sets and have done something significant with them...

Can it cost more...??...usually not if you take on the big picture and if your speaking as a DIYer trying these out...NEVER!!!. You actually grow intrinsic value, and accrued investment 99.9% of the time! I could right a book on that point alone...Ow wait...that's right I am...LOL

Either way, thanks for your post and letting me rant a while...:smile2:


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

As to the age issue, I'm going to go back to my house as an example. Sure, it's got some age to it, but so does every other house on the street. It didn't belong to my grandparents, it's not a Frank Llyod Wright, wasn't part of the underground railroad. It was made with crappy materials and poor craftsmanship, built with absolutely baffling details (12 foot ceilings, 5 foot basement), and is a right bloody pain in the rear to live in with all it's idiosyncrasies. Age is great and all, it doesn't entitle things to any special status. It's just 4 crooked walls and a leaky roof. 

The "extra mile" line? I can raise a coop of chickens all the way from chicks, feed them the best grains and serenade them nightly with Bach, or I can go to Walmart and pick up a dozen eggs. My omelettes not going to care either way. Unless there is an actual pressing need for me to farm raise my own chickens, well, that's just an extra 20 miles I don't need to walk. Walmarts only 3/4 of a mile away after all


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> Age is great and all, it doesn't entitle things to any special status...It's just 4 crooked walls and a leaky roof...


For clarity, please understand I do not mean any disrespect to you personally...but I do have to strongly confront your shared views and philosophies on this and the other subjects you have now touched upon...My words may sound strong, or even harsh, but are meant to only entice thought on the subject, if not for you, but for hopefully others that read them...

Please have whatever view of the world you wish, and what's in it and how you wish to treat all that's in it...including the food you put in your body...That is entirely up to you, and you have to live with the consequences...As do we all for our choices and actions we each take...

My response is aimed solely at your interned meaning and the collective mindset that have similar outlooks...

Once again...*inept justification from my perspective*...is how they read, for doing whatever you want to your "four walls." You do certainly currently have that right to due whatever you want to them...as in most regions of the country (thankfully not all) so even if it affects your neighbors now or in the feature...again you get to make that choice for them irregardless of how it may effect them...now or in the future.

*Following your logic:*

If age of anything doesn't...*"entitle things to any special status,"*...than why bother protecting anything old at all?

Why protect some of our countries original flags...it's just cloth?

Why protect the original constitution...it's just paper?,

For that matter, since you brought it up...why protect any of Frank Loyd Wright's architecture...as most of that is hideously constructed crap with bad choices in materials and related methodologies. I been involved with a few examples of his work...in a word...much of it is pretty crappy workmanship because many artisans and trades people would walk off his projects..and the only brilliance is in their design and the mind behind it...Wright himself, collectively was difficult, challenged, and not really that great to be around quite often...

Why bother, if we follow your logic to really save, protect or spend money and time protecting any thing that's old..???

To you its just old "crooked walls and leaky roof" after all...right?

But what will it be to someone else with a different perspective? 

What can they do with it? 

What would they like to do with it if given the chance?

If we follow your rather narrow and selective (perhaps even dare I say selfish) view points and philosophies on this subject...they don't get to...right?

From your perspective you have the right to decide for them...or more germane to the point...take those choices completely away from them?

You "can raise a coop of chickens" if you wish. I personally do live on and with farmers and around Amish as I have most of my life. That again is a choice someone can make...or not...for themselves. Or you can be a mass consumer like the rest of the "sheeple" and just buy whatever the industrial poultry industry sells you and put that in your body...That is your right. :|


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's about your view of the world, sometimes it's limited.....*

Before I was assigned an oversea stay in Japan, I had always admired their culture, tools and sense of simplicity in design IE flower arrangements etc. When I was exposed to the culture and the people first hand it was a mind expanding experience. There is nothing like smelling the actual scents, listening to the water dripping from the bamboo falling into the pool, seeing the Koi come up to be fed and riding on the Bullet train at 155 MPH. :surprise2:

Few discussions on forums actually change minds or opinions, and when they do it's a result of open minds and persuasive information presented in a clear, simple and sometimes visual manner. The photo is worth 1000 words sorta thing. Sometimes you are treading water, othertimes you are swimming against the current ... a rip tide., and that's not gonna turn out well. It's best to know when to change directions ...... :vs_cool:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...2/bamboo-pipe-dripping-water.jpg&action=close


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes, my words were "age doesnt automatically entitle things to special treatment". My words were not "nothing old deserves special treatment". My argument was that just because something is some arbitrary number of years old doesnt mean that its special, the age in and of itself doesnt confer anything. What determines worth is the history surrounding the building. 

So, following my logic, my house is 101 years old and a piece of crap, and nothing should really stop someone from buying it, bulldozing it and building a line of condos. Its not special because of its age, its just old. On the flip side of that token, my place of work IS a historic landmark, a downtown building older than my house that served as a mason lodge in a prior life. Typing from the basement of it right now. There is actual, identifiable history in this building, its actually listed on the citys list of landmarks, and i do believe it belongs on that and should be protected. The starbucks down the street that was converted from a warehouse built in the 50's? Not so much. The flag is just cloth, the constitutions just paper. They have value because we assign value to them. That same value isnt attached to a t-shirt or a ream of copy paper, and the same value isnt even attached to every scrap of fabric that happens by. I can get my hands on a wagon wheel from the same vintage as the Declaration of Independence, doesnt mean that the wheel deserves to be behind 6 inches of bulletproof glass in a climate controlled environment

Im not pretending i have the right to make anybody elses decisions for them, if someone wants to take the time to only use historic and reversible methods to modify a building because of something in their head, more power to them. So far the only person passing any judgement here has been you, by immediately declaring someone elses advise as poor practice and then trying to browbeat people with your credentials. Im not saying theres fault with either method, in fact as youll recall my original comment on this thread was wondering how this went from "old building" to "historical restoration project and if you dont do it this exact way youre wrong and destroyed the building". 

This is a home shop woodworking website, dude was asking how to attach trim to a brick wall, unless someone suggested he adhere it to the wall with a mixture of ground ivory and bull semen, im not seeing how any of this was wrong and its not like its a competition to see whos the most right. Lets leave the discussions about who is and isnt an "actual professional" somewhere, anywhere else


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> ...It's about your view of the world, sometimes it's limited.....


If this was meant for Chris...I'm not sure I think Chris's views are narrow at all...I actually like most of his post quite a bit. 

He actual does (and I think he is here on this post too) really thinking about things a great deal. I wouldn't bother posting a reply if I thought otherwise...

If that comment was aimed at me...Then do please paint me really confuse Woodnthings...LOL

I am a practicing Taoist...

I was raised in both a Native America and Korean/Japanese household as a child... I've traveled the world now a fair amount and specialize in Asian architecture...So for anyone that actually knows me, you could say I can be dogmatic, or even stubborn...of that their is no doubt...LOL...but having a narrow view of the world...that is just funny...:vs_laugh:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It's about folks in general and me in particular*



woodnthings said:


> Before I was assigned an oversea stay in Japan, I had always admired their culture, tools and sense of simplicity in design IE flower arrangements etc. When I was exposed to the culture and the people first hand it was a mind expanding experience. There is nothing like smelling the actual scents, listening to the water dripping from the bamboo falling into the pool, seeing the Koi come up to be fed and riding on the Bullet train at 155 MPH. :surprise2:
> 
> Few discussions on forums actually change minds or opinions, and when they do it's a result of open minds and persuasive information presented in a clear, simple and sometimes visual manner. The photo is worth 1000 words sorta thing. Sometimes you are treading water, othertimes you are swimming against the current ... a rip tide., and that's not gonna turn out well. It's best to know when to change directions ...... :vs_cool:
> 
> https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...2/bamboo-pipe-dripping-water.jpg&action=close





Jay C. White Cloud said:


> If this was meant for Chris...I'm not sure I think Chris's views are narrow at all...I actually like most of his post quite a bit.
> 
> He actual does (and I think he is here on this post too) really thinking about things a great deal. I wouldn't bother posting a reply if I thought otherwise...
> 
> ...


I gave my own example of my limited view of the Asian world and culture which expanded once I was there and saw it first hand. 

The following paragraph was more to the discussion in this thread. Ya gotta know when to stop and "change directions" because you ain't gonna convince someone whose taken a firm position for what ever their reasons are. That probably applies to both sides of this one ...... :glasses:


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## pro70z28 (Feb 26, 2018)

I had to come back to see how this thread was progressing. I was surprised by the direction it took, but I shouldn't be I guess. The same argument can be found on car sites I'm on, when it comes to original restoration vs hot rodding. There are strong feelings on both sides of the debate.
I'm not a good one to debate the subject of historical buildings. I'm not sure of the age of our house, but the original building has square nails and real 2'x4's. It's been added on to 2 times 3 if you count the addition we added about 20 years ago. When remodeling the original section, I found a newspaper from the 1920's under the linoleum. It was right where it looked like the original entry door could have been. The flooring under the newspaper was worn down from foot traffic. The house went from a 16'x24' 3 room coal miners shack originally, to a 45'x90' footprint today. All that's left of the original is 2 outside walls that have been rebuilt. Original floor joists (but not the subfloor) and a little bit of the roof still remains. House was jacked up at one time and received a new poured foundation. It was done with modern forms, so it had to have been done fairly recent. The only way to tell it was an old shack at one time is to go down in the basement. Well that's not really true either as the basement was hand dug, under addition #2. by the parents of the people we bought the house from. The dirt is original to the house......... nope, I forgot, we brought dirt in to raise the backyard after we did the addition. One reason we didn't just push it over and start from scratch, is the building permit for an addition to an existing structure was a couple hundred bux. Building permit for a new structure runs 5 figures. It was a coal miner's shack in it's earlier days, in what was once a coal mining town. There are still plenty on them around in various stages of repair. I've never heard of any being considered historical, but given the history of the town, someday they may be, when there's only a few left to save.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

Just an update. I tried nails, both finish and square cut. Mortar was too soft, bricks too hard. Didn’t consider adhesive because once I got into it, it was obvious that the brick wall was too uneven, and there would be no easy way to hold the trim in place while the adhesive dried.

I went with my first impulse which were Tapcon screws. I used 3/16 x 1 3/4 so the holes are minimal. So long as I drill and screw into the brick they hold strong. I recessed the screw hole so I could plug it with either matching flush plugs to make the holes invisible, or some kind of contrasting mushroom type plug to create interest. Still have plenty of time to make up my mind.

The tin was mostly secure to the ceiling, but needed tacking to the trim strip, so I used decorative upholstery tacks.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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