# using dovetail machine



## tcc (Oct 15, 2007)

I have a grizzly g0611x dovetail machine and having problems with breaking bits I am using 5/8 hard maple drawer sides and probably break a bit every 5 drawers or so. anybody have any experience with dovetail machines in general? I'm using the bits sold from Grizzly they are solid carbide, wondering if their is a better source for bits that will fit this machine?

Thanks


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

wow, that is about $5 per drawer then?, pretty expensive. I have used a Leigh for many years, a much simpler (and more complex) machine. I have never broken a bit in hundreds of drawers. Certainly I have had to get them resharpened. I assume this has a power feed mechanism, maybe pushing it a bit too fast? Maybe the solid carbid is a bit too brittle? I have always just used the carbide tipped bits. What does Grizzly say? They have to agree that one bit for 5 drawers is a bit crazy. What is special about the bit? usual angles are 7 and 9 deg, but doesn't the same bit cut the tails and the pocket? So what difference does it make? (there I go trying to help with a question!)


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## tcc (Oct 15, 2007)

Paul K said:


> wow, that is about $5 per drawer then?, pretty expensive. I have used a Leigh for many years, a much simpler (and more complex) machine. I have never broken a bit in hundreds of drawers. Certainly I have had to get them resharpened. I assume this has a power feed mechanism, maybe pushing it a bit too fast? Maybe the solid carbide is a bit too brittle? I have always just used the carbide tipped bits. What does Grizzly say? They have to agree that one bit for 5 drawers is a bit crazy. What is special about the bit? usual angles are 7 and 9 deg, but doesn't the same bit cut the tails and the pocket? So what difference does it make? (there I go trying to help with a question!)




10 deg eccentric single wing cutter, looks like the same cutter that both powermatic and dodds dovetail maichine's use. the manual talkes about resharpining the bids so i have to belive they are ment to last a long time. the miching is not power feed and i do excersize control and feed slowly. I am using up the last of my hard maple and wonder if I should just start using soft maple? if i could find this bit from another sourch maybe it would not be solid carbide or just made in USA. 

thanks


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

I believe Freud bits are a combination of steel with embedded carbide.
johnep


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## Paul K (Jan 14, 2008)

I think I would first ask Grizzly what might be the problem, second, I'd get bits from someone else, and ideally carbide tipped, not solid. I have made a lot of drawers using hard maple too, though mostly the drawer fronts were hard maple, and I generally used birch, ash or something else for the sides. Again, I certainly burned a few up, and had to sharpen them often enough, but even that I don't doubt but that i could cut 20 or so before it needed sharpening again. If you are self feeding, and of course the real problem is shock. you have to go into the cut slowly. Direction of cut might also be a problem. router bits grab going one direction and not the other. And of course a dovetail bit is narrow waisted, and thus they can break. I assume you are using a 1/4" shank, and that, with the right degree, is going to make a fagile shank. Since carbide is so hard, it is also more brittle, so perhaps that is the problem? Anyway a few thoughts

best
paul


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## tcc (Oct 15, 2007)

*thanks*

I would have to agree I also think it is the carbide. I have not yet spoken to Grizzly. the bits are not your standard 1/4 or 1/2" shank, so not just any bit will work, I did find a bit that is from Powermatic it costs app 10.00 more but maybe it will be made with a steel shank or just better carbide. I have made 100's of drawers with the old jig and router and have only broken a couple in my life, I bought this dovetail machine a few months ago and as far as setup and use, its great but I need to know what’s up with the broken bits. will call grizzly tomorrow.

thanks


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## Yukonjim (Apr 11, 2011)

*dovetails and broken bits*

for 19 yrs i used a rockwell router and rarely borke a bit. Changed router , guide collar, etc and did the same as you every 5-10 boxes broke a good bit freud, whiteside, bosch. still trying to resolve issue. For now keep in mind it could be a damaged collet, guide collar misaligned, misaligned base. I'll keep you informed, if you find out anything I'd appreciate the info myself.:smile:


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## Yukonjim (Apr 11, 2011)

*bit breakage*

I experienced a bit breakage problem when I switched from an old often used Rockwell to a beautiful new Bosch router. After many questions, many helpful replys and a thorough examination of all equipment used I determined that when I was making my fine adjustments for the exact depth of the bit I was not paying attention to the collet position in reference to the guide collar. The collet was in contact with the guide collar. For now I'm assuming this improper contact had something to do with the bit breakage. As I have the need to do additional dovetails I'll update you with farther results with the collet not hittingthe guide collar. My clue was a reply to my question telling to use an o ring to keep the collet spacing correct..


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

TC, 

I guess by now you figured out the breaking of the bits? How do you like the grizzly DT machine? I'm thinking of getting one or a foxshop one. I want the 16 1/2" capability. Are you able to get a pre cut on the pins before doing a complete cut?


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## Hooligan13 (Sep 28, 2016)

I am having the same issue with broken bits. I am curious if a solution was found.


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## MEP1 (Aug 14, 2015)

OP hasn't been back here since 2008, I doubt at this point he'll be back for an update.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Hooligan13 said:


> I am having the same issue with broken bits. I am curious if a solution was found.


In all likelihood the problem was with the bits instead of the machine.


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

Hooligan13 said:


> I am having the same issue with broken bits. I am curious if a solution was found.


Are you referring to using the shopfox DT machine? I myself am using the W1805 machine. Just bought a few months ago. The only thing about broken bits is, I notice my chaser guide had some shiny parts on it. Then I realized my tracer pin was set too deep. I trashed that bit. Good thing I had already bought an extra bit. Other than that, use it like you use a regular DT jig, slow & steady,


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

I have never broken a dovetail router bit. I used cheap 1/4" shank non-carbide for the first 20 years of my woodwork. I've been using 1/4" shank carbide tipped cutters for the past 20 years. I've cut a lot of dovetails over 40 years. No broken bits. I never sharpen the bits. When they get dull, I toss them out. 
If your breaking bits, you must be putting tremendous stress on the bit. You may be using a jerking motion.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

What is a dovetail "_machine.\?"

George
_


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Go to Grizzly type in...*



GeorgeC said:


> What is a dovetail "_machine.\?"
> 
> George
> _





















http://www.grizzly.com/products/16-1-2-Extreme-Series-Dovetail-Machine/G0611X?utm_campaign=zPage


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> http://www.grizzly.com/products/16-1-2-Extreme-Series-Dovetail-Machine/G0611X?utm_campaign=zPage


Thanks very much for the picture. By the way, your good and fast with the pictures. The dovetail machine pictured is a little too much for my garage workshop. :grin:
Very nice if I was running a shop building desk or drawers all the time. 
If bits are breaking on that type set up, I would start slowing the machine down and see if that helps. :yes:


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Toolman50 said:


> I have never broken a dovetail router bit. I used cheap 1/4" shank non-carbide for the first 20 years of my woodwork. I've been using 1/4" shank carbide tipped cutters for the past 20 years. I've cut a lot of dovetails over 40 years. No broken bits. I never sharpen the bits. When they get dull, I toss them out.
> If your breaking bits, you must be putting tremendous stress on the bit. You may be using a jerking motion.


I've broken dozens of bits and I've tried everything from slow to fast to adjusting the RPMs of the router. But I'm routing Baltic Birch which has a lot of glue which heats up the bit. Sometimes they last 5 drawers sometimes, 25. But eventually they break on me.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Toolman50 said:


> Thanks very much for the picture. By the way, your good and fast with the pictures. The dovetail machine pictured is a little too much for my garage workshop. :grin:
> Very nice if I was running a shop building desk or drawers all the time.
> If bits are breaking on that type set up, I would start slowing the machine down and see if that helps. :yes:


I bet if you paid the $3600.00 for it you would find a spot.:smile3:


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## Zion212 (May 31, 2010)

Steve Neul said:


> I bet if you paid the $3600.00 for it you would find a spot.:smile3:


If I paid that much I would build a spot to store it. Looks great though.


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## mag2147 (May 10, 2017)

To everyone who owns a grizzly G0611X. I have had this machine for 3 years now and have had the same problems with the bits from Grizzly, Shop fox and Powermatic all breaking after 5 or 6 drawers. The machine has sat for 2 years after my frustrations and I have been subbing out my drawers to a local drawer manufacturer. I figured I would give it another try and bought more bits from grizzly hoping they had figured out the issues. They didn't. After talking with my other drawer guys, I asked how often their bits broke. They told me they have them sharpened every 6 months! I decided to do a lot of research online and have found a bit made for a 30K machine that fits perfect into the grizzly machine. The bit has lasted and does a beautiful job with this machine. The machine is great, but the bits are the only problem. For everyone here that says their Leigh dovetail jig is the best, they are apparently not a production shop that makes 100's of drawers a month. I own a Leigh and it is great if you want to do something out of the ordinary, but they are incredibly slow to make a full drawer. With the new bit in the Grizzly machine, I can dovetail all parts in 3 minutes finished. Don't sell your machine from frustration. Here is the site and info for the replacement bit that kicks ass!

shop.Akhurst.com Omec A23 750 single flute dovetail bit. Cost $69 + Shipping

I am guessing that this bit will need to be sharpened once a year with my production rate. Nice to set the machine perfect and not worry about recalibration every time a bit breaks. Hope this help everyone that was as frustrated as me


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

I have the shopfox w1805 dove tailer. Never broke a bit, yours seems like mine. I did buy an extra one for the same money you did. I did email that akhurst place & asked if the double flute would work. I guess I should ask shopfox. Your machine is exactly like mine. When I read your pdf manual, I thought I was reading mine..lol..Its a great machine. And your right, the leigh is not a production piece. Glad yours is up & running!


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

cabinetbob said:


> I have the shopfox w1805 dove tailer. Never broke a bit, yours seems like mine. I did buy an extra one for the same money you did. I did email that akhurst place & asked if the double flute would work. I guess I should ask shopfox. Your machine is exactly like mine. When I read your pdf manual, I thought I was reading mine..lol..Its a great machine. And your right, the leigh is not a production piece. Glad yours is up & running!


The president of Grizzly is also the president of Shop Fox, Grizzly sells direct to the customer, Shop Fox is a wholesaler to other tool dealers


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Grizzly or ShopFox owners, the maximum length of the stock according to the description is 59" long. If the stock is loaded from the top and side, why is there a length limit?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Bought the Grizzly machine. Took your advice mag2147 about the Omec 750 bit. Was the shipping on your order $22 too? Thought that was a bit on the high side. Ordered from the US site.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Looks like the bit is shipping from Canada even though I ordered it on the US site. That explains the shipping costs. Wonder how long it's going to take to get here. :nerd2:


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Used a Dodds dovetailing machine for years and never broke bits. All bit bought from dodds. Not sure on the manufacturer....


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Picked up the new machine today. Took a couple hours to get all the protective oil off the milled steel parts, that was a pain. Used DNA and brake cleaner on the raw metal parts. Anything that was near paint or plastic I used the DNA. Put it on a mobile base and put a plug on the cord. Only got to setup one side so far. Just a wham bam thank you ma'am setup that ended up nearly perfect. The dovetails are set to thin right now. But the top and bottom are perfectly aligned and the dovetails are nice and tight.










Gonna have to put a back up board for that last tail. Pretty lucky for the first try on setup.


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

I hate cutting birch for dove tails. Ended up using 1/8 or 1/4 mdf as a back board. Its a pain. How much did that mobile dolly cost you?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

$78 on Amazon.

Oasis Machinery MB900 Adjustable Heavy Duty Mobile Base

Just cut a pc of 3/4" plywood the same size as the base and drill the holes and bolt the hardware on. Wa-la, mobile cart.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

That's all I've been using for drawer boxes for quite a few years now. I actually like the stripes showing in the dovetails. Makes then very noticeable. Plus stock processing is very quick.

I've always just uses some scrap Baltic Birch as a backer.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

When I'm cutting dovetails with my Porter Cable jig or even my CNC I first use a straight bit to clear out the center before following up with the dovetail bit. I use a bit that equals or is close to the diameter that the top of the dovetail cut would be. If in hardwoods I'll step down in 2 or three passes with the straight bit. So far I haven't broken any dovetail bits. 

4D


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

But you create 2 or 3x as much work.


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

Leo G said:


> That's all I've been using for drawer boxes for quite a few years now. I actually like the stripes showing in the dovetails. Makes then very noticeable. Plus stock processing is very quick.
> 
> I've always just uses some scrap Baltic Birch as a backer.


Using the same birch as your backer your just wearing your bits out a lot faster. 1/8 or 1/4 mdf is a lot less stress on the bits..Just saying..


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

4DThinker said:


> When I'm cutting dovetails with my Porter Cable jig or even my CNC I first use a straight bit to clear out the center before following up with the dovetail bit. I use a bit that equals or is close to the diameter that the top of the dovetail cut would be. If in hardwoods I'll step down in 2 or three passes with the straight bit. So far I haven't broken any dovetail bits.
> 
> 4D


I've heard of that. That works fine if you use two routers. Changing bits back and forth, you cant get any work done. On a CNC machine, I doubt if you have two of them..lol..but maybe you do..


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> When I'm cutting dovetails with my Porter Cable jig or even my CNC I first use a straight bit to clear out the center before following up with the dovetail bit. I use a bit that equals or is close to the diameter that the top of the dovetail cut would be. If in hardwoods I'll step down in 2 or three passes with the straight bit. So far I haven't broken any dovetail bits.
> 
> 4D


You should only need one pass on an Omnijig. As far as the CNC it would only need one pass unless it's a sliding dovetail were you might want to run two...


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

MDF is pretty rough on carbide. It's soft yes, but pretty abrasive.

It only cuts it once anyway. The initial time and then it just falls into the hole it cut before. If you start getting chipout you cut the pc shorter and then it'll need to be cut again. The G0611X has a plastic breaker for the far left setup. The left side of the right setup is where I use the Baltic Birch.

Got the machine mostly tuned in last night. Thought I had a problem with the machine not cutting the sockets an even depth between the left and right sides but turned out to be dust flour that gets shot into the socket when the bit leaves and starts to cut the next dovetail. Have to blow that out or the joint won't go flush.

And then I was having an issue with the joint not being tight on the inside of the box. Turned out the support comb was letting the vertical board (side) be slightly below the horizontal board (front). I tried to raise the comb but that didn't work. So I got out my mallet and hit them up slightly (5-10 thou) and then things were running flush and the joint tightened right up.

Now I just have to start a run of drawers and test them as they come out to see if there is anything else that I need to adjust.

Because I'm doing Baltic Birch I'm running the machine left to right (climb ciut) to get cleaner cuts. I was surprised that the manual says to run it this way. Now that I've tuned it in and took a mallet :surprise2: to it I'm pretty happy with it.


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

The MDF is. I also do a pre cut if I'm not using a backer. Works some. Better for hard wood. My shopfox is jut like yours. Different name..I was disappointed to realize that it only does one kind of DT. I was hoping for a through and finger joints. I guess because of the cam is why you cant do a finger joint. I still think about using a short shaft 1/4 flute bit and put it on "0" and see if that may work. Havent tried it. I think eventually I will.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I don't see why you can do a finger joint with it.

I think the only difference between the two is the paint job and the price. They might put a different motor on it, don't know. But I was looking at both and they seem identical in pictures.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Leo G said:


> I don't see why you can do a finger joint with it.
> 
> I think the only difference between the two is the paint job and the price. They might put a different motor on it, don't know. But I was looking at both and they seem identical in pictures.


You'd have to stack two boards on top of each other offset by a 1/2". Then find the perfect size bit to make the joints equal.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

OK. I'm hoping one of you guys with a Dovetail Machine can help me with my setup. I have the setup damn close but I keep getting an anomaly.

Let me tell you about how I set it up:

I set the bottom (of the drawer) dovetail so that I could align my slot so the bottom of the slot is 1/2" up from the bottom of the drawer. This setup is for Blum undermount hardware. The two horizontal (fronts & Backs) fences are set farther out than the vertical (sides) fences by 1/2". Both horizontal fences are set so the dovetail corner is .400" from the bottom of the drawer. I put the slot against the fence so that becomes my constant. I don't care if the top aligns or not, the bottom is critical for me so the slot is aligned all the way around so the bottom of the drawer box slips in nice.

So when I make a drawer I'll take the sides and put them on the vertical fence with the slot towards the outside of the machine against the fence and the slot is facing out. Then I put the fronts on the horizontal fence, again the slots towards the outside of the machine but they are facing down, towards the table.

When I cut them I climb cut. I start from the left and go right. This is what the manual says to do and I get much better cuts doing this when I use Baltic Birch plywood for my boxes. So I make the dovetail cuts on both sets. Then I take the right board and flip it and put it in the left side and the left board and flip it and put it on the right side. I do the same for the horizontal (fronts) boards. The slots again, are still outboard against the fences.

When I go to put the drawer together I always seem to have 3 good corners and one that is slightly misaligned. I'm not sure I understand how this can happen. I figured it'd have to be two misaligned. How can I just have the one. I made about 6 drawers and it was pretty consistent. Always with the one that was misaligned. 

Any wisdom?


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## cabinetbob (May 5, 2016)

I run into that problem myself from time to time...ticks me off....three things, the stop on the right is sometimes off by 1/32 or boards arent flush with each other. Thats especially true with hard wood since it seems to have a slight bow in them once in a while. What causes them to not to be flush is debris. Little piece of wood. And third, one of the cuts are out of square a slight bit. So when you butt them up & see it may not be perfectly square, flush them face to edge and if its off the side fence some, you'll see it.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

The only thing it could be out of your suggestions is out of square. I do my cuts on a tablesaw sled so it's pretty accurate. All this is during the setup of the machine and I am very wary of debis and other things that would cause the board to be away from the fence. I just don't understand how it can just be one side. It really sounds like misplacing or debris doesn't it. I thought I was being very careful. 

I know if I do them individually like you would in a router jig they come out perfect. So the offsets are good. What I didn't expect is when you are doing the flipping thing the only joint that is matched is the first joint. The rest are dependent on the accuracy of the other side being identically opposite of the 1st side. 

So I've changed my tactics for now until I can figure it out. I'm running 2 drawers at the same time and setting it up so each corner is matched to the other. So drawer A corner set goes on the left. And drawer B corner set goes on the right. When you finish the operation 2 drawers have been completed and all the corners are matched sets.

Until I have time to blow on figuring this out, that's the way I'm going to handle it.


So I assume you agree that the way I proceeded to set up the machine is correct. And theoretically it should work, correct? Or did I miss something?

BTW Thanks.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I realized I didn't have the machine setup as mirror image from left to right. So I corrected that and redid the setup once again. That was a while back and I had only done drawers that were larger than 8" tall, so I could only do one set at a time. Well today I finally got the chance to do a 4" drawer and after going through the procedure the setup seems good. All 4 corners were flush and everything lined up properly. So I think the setup drama is finally over and I can just get down to producing drawers when I need them instead of the constant fine tuning the setup. Feels good.

I've noticed now that I can produce a tall drawer without the overheating and breaking of the dovetail bit of my older setup, I seem to be doing a lot more tall drawers. I'm thinking of making a hope chest now. 16" bottom with a 4 or 5" lid so I get a 20" tall line of dovetails. Put a base on it and get it up to 24" tall or so. Put the dovetails on the front of the chest to show them off.


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## Thomas John (Feb 5, 2018)

Hello , I am new here and just purchased this machine , I found this thread in a google search . 
I am having an issue with getting the tails to space evenly as per the instructions . 

The manual says to rip drawer stock in widths divisible by template bar being used ex: 2” template = 4”, 6”, 8”,10” ect; drawer widths. 

I ripped pine to 4 inches and went through set up as per instructions multiple times and it is not even close . 

I have managed to get the joints space correctly on a test box setting fences by eye . 

I am not new to woodworking and have used Omni jig long ago and are very proficient at hand cutting dovetails.

If any could chime in and set me straight I would much appreciate it . 

Thanks Tom .


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Which machine? There are more than one listed.


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## Thomas John (Feb 5, 2018)

Grizzly G0611X


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Ya, don't set the machine up like in the instructions. They suck. I'm sure it'll work, but you can only use those part dimensions and if you are off a bit it screws the setup.

You need to go to a referenced edge platform. In my case I use the bottom as the reference because that is where the slot is going and they need to line up properly because I do tight tolerances.

So setup the outside stops so you will have a consistent distance between the bottom dovetail mortise on both sides of the machine. Making sure that your bottom will fit within the confines of the dovetail so you don't get any peek a boo holes from the slot that holds the bottom into your drawer.

Then you need to work on the upper stops they need to be inside the lower stops by exactly 1/2". I used a piece of wood sized to a half inch thick using calipers. Then used my finger to determine that the stops were flush.

All of these measurements really need to be done with calipers, and it is still a pain to get things perfect. If you need to move something over a smidge, use a piece of tape or paper as a shim when you adjust the stops.

My setup is nearly perfect. I say nearly because it still has brain farts every once in a while where I get parts that don't line up for whatever reason. Do 10 drawers and have all but one set of sides align properly.

It is going to take you 1/2 day to tune this in.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I didn't use calipers on a DODDS. Within an hr it was set:wink:.. Unless Grizzly is that difficult to set up, I would call Grizzly:surprise2:..

I've had more trouble setting up a Leigh and PC than the DODDS,....


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