# Spindle Gouge,6" flute I made



## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

This is a spindle gouge I made, with a 6" flute. I haven't hardened it yet but will tomorrow. I made a few but with shorter flutes so I know they harden well and cut well. What I want to learn from this gouge is, will it stand up to the abuse of heavy turning and whether I will experience any chattering. If I do chatter I am going to try making the same thing with a 5/8" rod to see what I get. The second picture is the same gouge and a 3/16"x 1" wide piece of flat steel. I ground out a parting tool and it works good even before it is hardened. Need to make a handle for both. Anyone else on this forum interested in making your own tools? Mitch


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## Robocop (Dec 16, 2008)

Looks good Mitch, keep us posted on how it works:thumbsup:


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Mitch,
I don't know if it the picture or what, but the gouge looks like the metal left is very thin. Is it an optical illusion? If it is that thin, I can't see it holding up too well. Normally the flute is a lot smaller.
Mike Hawkins


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Robocop
Thanks and I will. Mitch


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

firehawkmph
Thanks for the reply. This is a 1/2" rod ground with a side grind. Your compareing apples to oranges. Looks like your showing us a 5/8" Doug Thompson bowl gouge , with a completely different grind. Mine is milled to be a spindle gouge. The flute should be just below the half way mark of the rod diameter. Mine is even a little higher. I made several but the flute was never six inches and believe me it cuts and holds up well. I made this one to see how it holds up with a 6"flute, which is the length of my Sorby spindle gouge flute. I agree it looks thin in the picture but I was shooting down at the flute with the camera. My concern with this gouge is whether or not I get any chatter. My next gouge is going to be a bowl gouge with a standard grind, you will see the difference between the two gouges. Mitch


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## Gordon Seto (Sep 23, 2007)

I don't know what sizes they are. But I don't think they are 5/8" Thompson bowl gouges, because I don't think he has made any of my favorite detail & shallow detail gouges in 5/8".
They are (from left):
V bowl gouge
U bowl gouge
spindle gouge
detail gouge
shallow detail gouge

They looks like different gouges in the same size to me.


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

Mitch Looks good to me. It either will or wont work, but you don't know until you try. Keep up the good work.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Handyman
Thank you my friend. Your right, it will either cut or it won't, but I am here to tell you it isn't the first I made before posting this picture. It cuts very well. Kind of disappointed that it would be compared to a real professional tool makerlike Doug Thompson is. He has all the tooling and best steels money buys. I am just a turner trying to make my own tools for the fun of it only. I was thinking that is the way it would be viewed. thanks again, Mitch:thumbsup:


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

Mitch I can appreciate a good hand made tool. And you are right, how can it be compared to expensive factory made tools. NO way. yours is better because you took the time to make something that filled a need. I am no turner, but I turned 3 goblets out of some old legs that came off a coutch using a drill press and a sharpened screwdriver and a couple of Morticing chisles. I have a shop full of handmade tools. My hats off to you.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Gordon
Thanks for your input Gordon about what Doug turns. It looks like 5/8" rods to me with Dougs grind, but I know you have an interest in making tools and you might be right. I saw a couple that you made yourself elsewhere on a different forum. I need to get a 5/8" endmill then I am going to turn a few bowl gouges. The flutes will look different than the v, u, and different bottoms Doug makes. Mine is just a ball shaped endmill. T:thumbsup:hanks again. Mitch


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Handyman
Thanks again, sounds like you and I are alike in trying to make tools we could use or tools to see how they stack up against factory tools. I would like to see some of the tools you have made. Why not post a picture? I don't think any of the guys here would mind. Mitch


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Mitch Obviously it's all about fun and making your own tools. We can't make tools like Doug's because we don't have the steel or the high quality mills and grinders. 
Doug has 2 spindle gouges. The detail gouges have a very shallow flute, maybe 1/4 of the rod diameter maybe less. It is designed so that you have a lot of metal under the flute so that you can hang it way over the tool rest with no chatter. I have 2 and they are really great. His spindle gouges have a flute that is below center. These were designed to take a keener edge and fit into tighter areas.
His bowl gouges come in a variety of thicknesses from 3/8" to 1" although the 3/4 and 1" are specialty made. I have the 1/2" V flute and love it. I will probably invest in a 5/8" in the near future.
He will sell you blank steel and heat treat it for you if you write him. I probably won't have time to do that for a while. I need to experiment with shapes and grinds to see what I like before I invest in good steel.


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## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi Mitch and everyone. I'm impressed that you guys are able to make gouges of any kind. My question is this. How do you make the flutes in the gouges? Do you use a special grinding tool or just use a hand held side grinder or something very basic that I'm missing out on? I've made some turning tools(you can do a lot with old drill bits) but not gouges. Also where do you buy the high speed steel to make them? Thanks.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm not sure what cutter Mitch used but he used a milling machine. That is also how I did mine. I have done one using an angle grinder and cutoff wheel. I've also seen it done with a modified stone on a standard grinder. It takes a lot of time and skill with the grinders. With the Mill it's just a matter of aligning everything and then making the cuts.
You can also do it the old Blacksmith way by taking a flat piece of steel and shaping it over a curved piece. I'm not very good at that and left an awful lot of hand work after the hammering. I'm sure someone with the smithing skills could do it a lot better.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

John Lucas
Thank you for the response John. As usual your observations are right on the money.Far as I am concerned your very first sentence says it all for me. I am just into making tools for fun and enjoyment and I want to assure Doug I won't try to run him out of business.Of course I am kidding here. John, another reason I always look forward to your responses is the fact that I always learn something in them that i want to know. Example, I have been worrying how I could get into making HSS gouges somewhere down the line but realize I can"t harden it properly, so what to do? You answered it for me, ask Doug to do it. Does that mean anyone can write him John? I remember him making you that offer once a while back. I ordered a 5/8" ball endmill and intend to make a couple bowl gouges soon. Right now I need to stop the tool making, my oldest girl asked me in her best pleading voice to make her a bird house she wants to put up in her new yard. Birdhouse looks like a mansion. Thanks again John. Mitch


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

HLW
Thanks for the reply. I inserted a picture of the mini mill I used to mill my flutes. Take the drill bit out and installed a round ball bottomed end mill, line it up and center and turn the table right to left. I wrote you a long message but lost it posting the picture. How about posting pictures of what you made from drill bits. I would like to see them I have a bunch of scrapers I made from old files. If you want to make a chisel with flutes you can do like John suggests or buy a 1/2" surface grinder 7" wheel for about $8.00 and you can make some nice flutes. If your interested write me back and I will tell where and how to get started. Same thing about where to get HSS. Don't want to write all that unless your interested for sure. Keep in touch.


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## HLW (Nov 19, 2008)

Mitch, What I made from old drill bits was a couple of "Oland" tools. I cut the bits off at the bottom of the twist ( drill bits are made of HSS) and ground them off to the angle I wanted. I then inserted it into a 12"drill bit extension. These have two set screws that will hold the bit in place and it seems to work fine for me. Also the bits are easily replaced. Use the handle of choice to slide over the other end of the extension. Sorry I don't have pictures. Since I'm a new member I haven't figured out how to post them? When I do, I'll post them. Regards,HLW.


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

*Spindle gouge,6" flute I made*

I 'm with you Mitch,I would rather make a tool than buy one.I make a lot of my own tools.One reason is its fun to do an the other is I am cheap and would rather spend a few hours making a tool than spending 200.00 bucks for it.Just wish I had a milling mach.I could get into all kinds of trouble then:laughing: Keep up the good work an be sure and let us know how it goes. :thumbsup:


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Mitch I think you will find Doug Thompson is a hell of a guy. Give him a buzz and ask. I believe he made that offer on the AAW website. If it's like my offers on handouts and stuff very few people actually take you up on it. 
I read up on HSS hardening and you need a pretty expensive furnace to do that. You also need a lot of know how. Doug actually sends all of his stuff off to be hardened and cryogenic treated. 
He may be at the TAW symposium next weekend. If he is I'll ask him. I know Mike Hunter is going to be there so we'll discuss what the Hunter tools are up to, but I don't remember if Doug said he would be there or not.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

John Lucas
John, that would be fantastic if you could ask Doug how a guy like you and I could make gouges from HSS and get them hardened properly and an educated guess of what the cost for steel and hardening would be. I want to make the Hunter tool like you made a while back but that will be later. I figured I could ask you exactly how you did yours, I am pretty positive I won't have any problem making the Hunter but why not ask a guy who knows? Thanks for writing me and letting me know these things. Your tops in my book.
Something I wanted to ask you for a couple months now but keep forgetting John. Do you remember my posting pictures of scrapers I ground from 2" old files? Well in my travels, surfing the internet I ran across a guy that said a guy named John Lucas once wrote an excellent article for American woodturner, I believe it was. Is this the John Lucas I know? Reason I ask is I remember asking was a guy I met your father. Also he told me that a guy named Bob Rosand or something similiar wrote about making HSS gouges.Do you know anything about these articles and did you write the one about making woodturning tools from old files springs etc? Thanks again and enjoy the symposium. Mitch


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

HLW
Hey that is a great idea for making the Oland tool, that way you probably make a tool for nothing? I made several Oland tools but I bought a standard metal lathe cutting tip for $1.50 sharpened, bought a galvanized 1/2" pipe from HD drilled and tapped two set screws, inserted the cutter and, instant Oland tool. Cuts like crazy. Made one with a 1/2" metal utter but it is too aggressive unless you are hollowing big bowls etc. Hope you keep in touch, I would like to get a bunch of us guys together that like tool making turning tools or any tool together to discuss what we are doing.
If your interested in posting pictures here I could write down how you can post pictures and you can try it out. Just letting you know I will help if you want. You decide yes or no. Mitch:thumbsup:


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Woodsman
Hey thanks for the reply buddy. Always like to hear something from guys who like making tools no matter how you make them. How about keeping in touch with us here so we can talk about tools? I said the same thing about having a milling machine a while back and decided to buy a mini milling machine. It is great . I sent a picture of mine to HLW to look at. It is just a small one but it's great for milling tools. Why be cheap about something you want for yourself? You can't take it with you and if you don't spend it there is always some willing to spend it for you. If you have any pictures of tools you made post them for us all to enjoy. Keep this thread moving. Mitch


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Mitch,
Before this gets out of hand, please let me explain myself. I wasn't comparing your tools to Doug's. It was the only pic I had available just to show how thick some tools are. I realize your gouge wasn't the same type. The picture is deceiving, it looks like the tool is paper thin, obviously it isn't or it wouldn't work at all. I did not intend for this thread to turn into a debate on Doug's tools. I purposely did not even mention his name. Doug happens to be a member of our turning club, some sort of machinest by trade, and when he gets a chance, turns a heck of a cowboy hat. I admire the fact that you make your own tools, I think that is half the fun of turning. It's always more fun to make something up and have it work for you. Keep us posted on how it works. Sorry for the confusion,
Mike Hawkins


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

firehawk
Mike, you have nothing to apologize for. You spoke your mind and that's your priviledge. You were wrong that's all there is to say.I don't have any bad feelings about your response. It beats a lot of other guys who never ever respond to something you work so hard to make and then post.This thread isn't turning into a Doug tools making thread. It is just a fact every time a woodturner brings up Dougs name everyone respects this guy so much it always gets us all talking about him and his quality tools. When you make a gouge there are different kinds and you know that. A spindle gouge on a 1/2" rod should be milled down to just below center which would be 1/4", metal remaining below the flute. I just miked mine and it is right on. Another thing you mentioned thatI disagree with is that flutes are not ever 6 " long. Well my Sorby is exactly 6" long. So thanks for writing again and I hope you come join us again as long as the thread creates interest and I am sure you have something to offer about making tools. It would be tragic if we lost a prolific turner like yourself. Mitch (wink)


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Ok Mitch, 
Glad to see you're not mad at me. It was just the picture that through me. I wasn't trying to criticize anything. Just curious I guess. BTW, I didn't say anything about the flute being 6", I couldn't tell you what they are supposed to be, never measured one.:laughing: If you have any questions about the tool making process, I would give Doug a call like John said. He is a real nice guy, very intense about his toolmaking. When he starts talking about how he makes them, the metal he uses, etc., he looses me in the first 30 seconds. On a side note about his toolmaking, besides his regular job, it keeps him so busy that he hardly has time to turn anymore. 
Mike Hawkins


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

firehawkmpMike then it's me that owes you an apology. I thought it was you that said that about flute length. Sorry. I just got an e-mail from Doug but I think he misunderstood what I was wanting to do. I want to make a gouge just like the one:thumbsup: I pictured here but want to buy unhardened HSS then mill the flute then have the metal professionally hardened. He was talking about making scrapers. Oh well. Mitch


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## Doug Thompson (May 11, 2008)

First of all hello everyone this my first post here.

The tools in the picture are 1/2 inch diameter and you can see how the three on the right have a different depth of the flute, this changes the way the tool can be ground... example the spindle gouge with a round radius grind and the detail which is fingernail. The pictures don't show much but we know better LoL. Try different ideas and don't be afraid to fail... the proof is when the tool is finished and cutting wood. I have a bunch of ideas still to be made, some will fail but you never know.

Make the tools from M2 and hardened them yourself this is cheap easy and you can do it yourself. A11 is a tough steel to mill, first it's hard on the cutters and second it's gummy so it doesn't cut clean, third the heat treatment can't be done at home. 

It doesn't bother me at all what is said on these forums we are here to talk about different ideas and learn.

Tool making is fun but be careful if you start giving them away... I did the same thing years ago.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Mitch I did write the article on making tools from files. It was in American Woodturner about 5 or 6 years ago. I worked out a way to do it with a barbecue grill and your oven. 
Bob is a good friend and I will see him at the TAW this weekend also. He wrote an article on making ornament hollowing tools by silver soldering a HSS tip to cold roll steel shaft. He also sells round HSS 1/4" skews that are really sweet.
Doug's tools aren't HSS. They are powdered metal which is better than HSS for our uses. They can put more Vanadium in the PM tools than they can get in HSS. It's the Vanadium that gives the tools the edge holding quality.


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## jdixon (Nov 21, 2007)

Mitch, I've said it before and I'll say it again I think a day will come when I'm picking up my first Cholewinski gouge. Great work! You are progressing fast. 

You guys are gettng in my blood. I was out visiting a buddy of mine today and we were in his shed and he has this big scrap iron/metal pile and I'm digging around in it looking for something that I might fashion into a scraper or the like.:laughing: 

John


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Hi Doug
Welcome to the Woodworking forum, and thank you for responding to this thread. 
For anyone on this thread that doesn't know Doug by name he is the pro woodturning tool maker that all the great turners and some not so great turners on all the forums that makes what most say are the best woodturning tools available on the market today. He does it all himself.
I for one am going to get this M2 steel and turn my gouges from it as Doug suggests. One question I would like to ask Doug if it wouldn't be asking to expose any secrets? I have a feeling , after using my mini mill that Vertical mills aren't the way that professionals make gouges. Would it be right to say they are probably made on horizontal mills?
Thanks again Doug and please come back again. Mitch:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

John Lucas
You never cease to amaze me John.So you wrote the article about making scrapers from files? This is where I got interested in making my own tools. I had over 20 2" new files that my late brother had, all new so I didn't worry about microscopic cracks 
Was wondering if there is a way to get a copy of that article and the one Bob wrote? I say Bob only because I know I misspell his last name.:thumbdown: If any of you guys are interested in making scrapers, and these baby's work good, John is the guy to get you started. If any turners who frequent the forum have any questions on how to get started making turning tools, ask here, I think we have a pretty good nucleus of guys that can help us all,and like Doug says, making tools is fun and you don't need to be a pro. Mitch


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

jdixon
Thanks for the kind words, but could you imagine picking up a Cholewinski? I love my dads and my last name but I don't think it would sell many tools. I was hopeing that you would respond to this thread since you seemed interested before on Online turning. If you can't find just what kind of steel to make them scrapers from why not try making scrapers from M2 steel like Doug suggested and said others are doing? Make sure you post your results right here on this forum for us all to enjoy. Thanks buddy. Mitch:clap:


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Wow,
This thread turned out to be pretty wild. My laziness in not finding another picture turned out to be pretty cool. Actually I planned it that way.:laughing: Let's see, who else can we talk about and see if they show up...........
Mike Hawkins


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

Mitch Cholewinski said:


> Handyman
> Thanks again, sounds like you and I are alike in trying to make tools we could use or tools to see how they stack up against factory tools. I would like to see some of the tools you have made. Why not post a picture? I don't think any of the guys here would mind. Mitch



Ok Mitch I went out in the old shop and made a path to the work bench to look for some of the tools I made or modified. Let me first saw I make what I need at the time, Not fancy, just functional. 

1.Now the first 2 started out in life as a screwdriver, but I ground the tips to use as lathe turning tools. 
2. Started out as a fishing rod. (Sorry Terry) The metal sticking out the end is a part of a Harris 1650 printing press (news paper press), it is one hard piece of steal. I ground it in a cup shape to turn wood.
3. Broom handle hollowed out to hold one end of a drill press chuck. This really does work well to wrench the chuck tight.
4. Broom handle and a wooden Bung, (Bung comes out of the end of 2000 lbs roll of news print). I used this to hammer on the end of my wood chisles.

All these tools where made years back when money was a little tighter.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Handyman
Thanks for posting the picture of your tools . Good ideas here and like you said they were made to fullfill a certain function at the time. You did good . come back again and discuss tool making with us. Did you say newsprint? Don't tell me you were or are in the printing business? Mitch:thumbsup:


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## Doug Thompson (May 11, 2008)

Mitch,
Thank you for your comments. If you run production they need to done on a horizontal mill sure a few can be machined with a vertical mill but they won't hold up over time. When running production the expence is not in machines but in tooling, all custom made and all carbide... this adds up fast.

It just so happens another mill was delivered yesterday to increase production. This about 20 years old, MADE IN AMERICA and cost a lot more than my car and I got a good deal on it. This is the kind of machine needed to run production. This is a picture of the riggers and truck when it was delivered. 

Off to Nashville thursday for the TAW symposium... Jimmy Clewes gets his first batch of tools. I'm just a woodturner and to talk to Jimmy about how he wants his tools made was a thrill I won't forget.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Doug
I thought these gouges would be milled on a horizontal mill, for the very reason there just don't seem to be near enough end mill with all the different profiles. Just look at the different profiles your gouges are milled. At first I thought the end mills were just special order jobs but no way. 

That truck looks like a big sucker , so your new mill must be huge. Congratulations on your new production toy. Bet your probably excited as heck about getting this baby? made in USA too, way to go Doug. Lot of guys today forget the importance of made in America ever since this global economy crap took our jobs away.
Well Doug, you and John Lucas have a great time in Nashville and please come back and tell us here on this thread how things went for you at the symposium. I bet Jimmy Clewes is saying the same thing to his friends and telling them how thrilled he is in having the woodturner from Ohio making his new tools. Have fun. Mitch


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## Barry Ward (Mar 22, 2008)

*Spindle gouge,6" flute I made*

WOW Doug,one thing about that monster is it will probably out live you.Sure brings back a few memories,when I was a machinest back in the 70's.Those were mills then. :thumbsup:


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## Doug Thompson (May 11, 2008)

It's been busy the past few weeks with Jimmy giving the OK for the final design and then make enough to be heat treated so everything could be done for this symposium. The mill still needs a 600-800 lb head installed so next week it should be going, the good thing about this mill is it's CNC which saves time and new products. Mike and Gordon will see the products first at the club meeting and be able to say yes/no or give input about them.

Had my morning coffee and now need to sharpen and pack 170 bowl gouges today for the weekend.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Doug Best of luck to you at the symposium. Wow!!! How long is that going to take you to sharpen and pack 170 gouges? Mitch


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Well, today I hardened the fluted gouge that I posted on this thread and made a handle. Resharpened the side grind again after hardening and turned a small vase with this new gouge, as is my custom, in my tool arsenal and I can say that I am very pleased the way it cuts. Now for the next gouge I am going to try a shallow fluted gouge to see how this comes out. The one on this thread was milled down to just below the center of the diameter of the half inch rod. This one I will just go about 1/4 of the thickness of the rod. Everything else will be the same. I hope the results come out as good as this gouge did. Mitch


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Mitch,
Glad to hear it's working well. What did you end up doing for the hardening part? Also, how about a pic of the vase?
Mike Hawkins


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

firehawkmph
Mike, thanks for the reply. This particular gouge I used a Mapp gas torch to harden . I am milling another one out of a better steel and I will have this one hardened professionally at no charge. I explained how I will get them done for free in one of my replies on this thread. Want to get this done on the best ones I make and not take advantage of the guy doing it for me. I am totally satisfied with the one I posted at the beginning of this thread. Cuts good. Only thing I am not sure how long it will cut before I need to resharpen.I cut this little vase to see how it cuts when I finished hardening and it's still cutting, so we shall see. I will post a picture of the vase tomorrow. It's nothing special or have a finish. I just cut one every time I finish a gouge, just to see how it cuts.:thumbsup: Mitch


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Mitch,
Did you just heat it up cherry red and quench it in oil? Seems like that's what we used to do in high school metal shop. Hard to say how a long a tool stays sharp. Really depends on what you are cutting. 
Mike Hawkins


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

firehawkmph
Mike, after the tool is cherry red, you need to check if it is 1450degrees hot before quenching in oil. The way you do this is by getting it cherry red and quickly touching it to a magnet , if the tool is no longer attracted to the magnet it is at least 1450 degrees and ready to quench in oil. Don't let the tool touch the magnet for very long or you destroy the magnet, just quickly touch it and pull away.
As for how long a tool stays sharp, your right to a degree but it goes further. It depends a lot on the type of steel you are using. They are made up using different processes so they cut differently. The best cutting steels guys like us can use is steel that has close to one percent carbon in the make up, usually around .08
This picture that I inserted in this reply is the one I took today. Remember now these aren't to be judged as good turnings, I turned each to see how each gouge cuts after I made them, nothing more. The one on the right I turned after milling the gouge milled for this thread. No finish on it at all . I turned this to see how I could cut from left to right, turning the tool to the right , lifting my arm slightly to make the tool plunge down then up to form the neck of the vase.I do this a lot and it worked good. The little turning in the back I made to see how that gouge would cut pine. Lot of guys say they have trouble with pine. That gouge cut the pine fine without any tear out and there was minimal sanding. Where I believe guys fail turning pine is in the speed of the turning when your cutting. In other words Mike. It's my belief that to turn pine you need a sharp tool and you need to turn the turning as fast as it is safe to turn, These two things combined and done properly , turning pine is a piece of cake.
Thanks again for the reply and Good Luck Mitch


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Looks like its doing a fine job Mitch. I don't turn much pine, but generally I like to turn pieces on the faster side, depending on size and balance. I turned a big piece of walnut from a log last year into a fairly large and deep bowl. The grain was running in a couple of directions along with some areas where branches previously were and I want to say it was really tough on the tools. Even Doug's. I had to resharpen frequently to maintain a good cut. Keep on posting the new tools as you make them. Always nice to see something home made work nicely when finished. 
Mike Hawkins


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

firehawkmph Thanks Mike and I will post when I can. I am just now into ordering a better steel and getting end mills for my next home made tool, so it will be a while. I am back to making some kitchen cabinets for a long time friend in need and that is going to hold me back. I swore off making cabinets several times but always get back making them. Mitch


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## jdixon (Nov 21, 2007)

Mitch Cholewinski said:


> Mike, after the tool is cherry red, you need to check if it is 1450degrees hot before quenching in oil. The way you do this is by getting it cherry red and quickly touching it to a magnet , if the tool is no longer attracted to the magnet it is at least 1450 degrees and ready to quench in oil. Don't let the tool touch the magnet for very long or you destroy the magnet, just quickly touch it and pull away.


Mitch,
Very interesting tip on using the magnet. How long using the mapp gas does it take to get to 1450 degrees? Also by destroying the magnet when touching it too long do you mean the magnet will shatter or does it lose it magnetism?

John


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

jdixon
It's been my experience using Mapp gas that if you were trying to heat a couple inches of the tool to the 1450 degree level it generally takes 4 to 5 minutes. By destroying the magnet, I meant it would destroy the magnets ability to being magnetic, or as you say ,lose its magnetism. If you could be using acetylene and were heating the same amount of the tool you could do it in maybe half the time. Depends on how much gas your willing to expend on this tool. Sounds dumb but this gas is expensive and there are times you don't want to expend way to much. Example if your hardening a tool that your just experimenting with, why harden more than an inch or two? Depends on what you want to accomplish is the best way I can put it. Thanks for your input. Mitch:thumbsup:


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Many of the older non HSS tools were only hardened part way up the blade. I've had older turners tell me when the tool got short they would have to reheat treat it. It's also safer. The tool would be less likely to break if the main part of it was softer. Hardened steel is brittle. 
I took up blacksmithing because it is so hard to heat treat or bend tools with mapp gas torches. They work fine for 1/4" steel but to heat a 1/2" tool to the point of bending takes forever and you can only heat up about an inch at a time. Oxyacetelene is the way to go but is fairly expensive to get all the toys. 
I found a hand cranked forge for $50 and I was off. I took a class at the local Craft school. The only problem I have with this is that I can't use it in the winter. I should say indoors, not winter. He puts out too much smoke and I don't think you should have fire and sparks in a woodshop so I work outdoors. This of course limits when you can work. With a forge it's easy to heat up large areas and thick steel. You still can't heat treat HSS but you can shape it and then send it off to be heat treated by a professional.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

John Lucas
Hey John, thanks for responding to this thread, there seems to be a grat interest in this part of making your own turning tools. I agree with most everything you state here except maybe where you say Mapp gas takes forever to heat a 1/2" rod, yes a 1/4" rod is heated quickly and it's been in my limited experience,that I can get a 1/2" rod heated about 2" long in 3 to 4 minutes. I think to some that may be too long and to others that's no problem. I have acetylene but need refills. I have been looking for some place that sells forges but can't find anything. This is the way to go. If I can find something reasonable I will get one quick. I want to share an experience with you that I had a few weeks ago regarding your statement that hard steel brittle. I agree it is and I made a short fluted gouge and heated it with Mapp gas and I think must of heated it too long. After hardening it and then resharpening the side grind I had on the tool I was noticing the cutting edges were sort of crumbling. I reheated it for a minute untill it looked a straw color. No quench but instead let it lay on my shaper table overnight and air cool. Next day resharpened it and it cuts good.This softened the metal enough for it to cut ok but it wasn't too hard and brittle any longer. I read this before and it worked. I am now going to experiment with another short gouge I made to see how many times I can sharpen it before it is no longer hard enough to use. Then reharden and go through the sharpening process again. If this fails to work, then there is no reason to make long flutes in the home work shop. Any thoughts on this John?
How did things go for you at the symposium? You said you might be doing the photography at the symposium. Thanks for the info, Mitch:thumbsup:


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## Jerry Nelson (Feb 13, 2009)

Hi everyone. I just joined. When I read the first few threads I thought of making tools from the big 2" old rasps I have from horseshoeing. I have plenty of oxy/acet and think I can forge very big "something sharp" out of the files...at least I'll give it a shot. I have so much to learn.


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

Jerry Nelson
Welcome aboard Jerry. Glad to see your interested in making some turning tools. You should be able to make useable scrapers from the rasps you mentioned and the steel should be hard enough as it is, One thing you need to know though. You need to be sure there are no hairline cracks in the rasps. I made a bunch of scrapers from 2" files, but they were almost new so I had no problems. If I were you I would make one tool from this metal and not harden it at all. Then grind it to what ever grind you want. Then try it to see how it cuts. If you harden it, it is possible the steel will be too hard and become brittle and crumble in places. If this happens you will need to temper the steel. I got some 3/4" steel yesterday from a new friend and didn't know what the steel was. I made a round scraper for hollowing boxes out of one piece of steel. Ground it and tried to make a couple fairly small boxes and it cut extremely well. I won't be hardening this tool.Let us know on this thread how you make out making your tools. If you need some advice, someone will help you. Mitch:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## kingswarrior777 (Dec 4, 2008)

*Are your tools for sale?*

Hey guys,
Just wanted to know if any of your were comfortable enough with the workmenship in your tools to sell them? The look pretty sweet to me and I need a couple of thing but don't have the $$$$ to pay the price for professional ones. I also don't have the tools to make my own. I also don't mind trying my hand at making the handles.

Let me know if you are interested. I need a spindol gouge and a bowl scraper. (that is just for starters!)

If you would like to practice, i am willing to pay for your materials!


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## Mitch Cholewinski (Mar 11, 2007)

kingswarrior777
Hey triple 7, thanks for responding to this thread. Glad to see your interested in making turning tools.
I feel that my tools look and perform well enough to try my hand in selling them. I know they perform because I put them through tests after I make each one to see if it was worth the effort and money to make each tool. I recently invested in a small milling machine and have been seriously trying to make all the different gouges. My only regrets, that I didn't buy a much bigger milling machine, everything worked out so well 

I have been in different businesses off and on most of my life and made myself a promise when I started turning and making tools. I won't ever try to turn it into a money making business. This is a strictly fun thing for me at this time of my life.

I understand where your coming from when you say you don't have the resources to make your own tools. It doesn't take much money to get started. You say you need a bowl gouge and a scraper? Actually you don't if your strapped for cash. All you need is a grinder and a piece of steel. You can grind a half round scraper that will let you hollow out a bowl as good as any bowl gouge you will ever use. I have bought every type of scraper made, I think, but I like to make and test my own. I made a 3/4" half round scraper yesterday from steel a friend gave me. I tried it out yesterday on a log from my tree that the wind blew over this past week. It is amazing how this tool tore into that wet wood. The finish looks like something turned with a skew. I didn't need no bowl gouge for this bowl and you won't either. Can't make a tool any cheaper than that. Only thing I did different was when I ground the cutting edge on the steel I then used a Veritas burnisher on the edge to put a burr on the cutting edge to turn the tool from being a scraper to one that cuts. I will use this tool every time I make a smaller box or vase and I want the end grain hollowed out clean and square bottomed, instead of using the bigger, more aggressive store bought scraper I have. You can do this too and you can do quite a bit of turning using no other tool than this untill you get some money. You will need a parting tool and can make one from a flat piece of steel from home depot for under $10 long enough to make 3 parting tools.

My point here is to tell you , you don't need to be a rich guy to make your tools that can get you into turning, you need to have desire to do it and you can get all the help you need right here on this forum and on this thread. If your interested in making a half round scraper, get a piece of steel and a grinder and then e mail me and I will guide you through making the scraper as a prototype, after you can do this on a test piece of steel you buy a good steel and make a useable scraper. Then your off to the races. Mitch


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Rolling your own is half the fun. In order - small tool for making a perfect 90° corner, couple carbide tools, Gouge, and skew from file, and last, closeups of some tool ends.


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## tdecell (Jan 17, 2017)

Newbie here... Just getting back into woodworking after a long hiatus. I love to make tools, ran across this thread and was wondering, I've got about 10, 48" long 5/8" stainless steel rods that were left at my house many years ago. Would these work for a turning tool and how hard would it be to "mill" them. I've got a small Enco lathe/mill that _might _work. If SS would be workable_.._


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