# Minimum cost of shop tools to make my own cabinets?



## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

I just bought a foreclosed house that will need the kitchen and bathrooms rebuilt, especially the kitchen cabinets. 

I will build a 20x30 workshop in the back yard on a concrete foundation over the next year. It will serve many purposes.

I suppose I need a table saw. What else do I need at a minimum (nothing I can do without) to make kitchen cabinets?

Is Craftsman OK? Or what should I look at? Price is very important.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

That's a pretty general question. You could spend any amount of money. 

Do you want new or used tools? 
120V or 220V? 
Will they need to be portable? 

You have as many options as you do with buying a new car


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

I often make this same comment to folks starting out in woodworking... only buy the tools you need for whatever task you are doing.

First, let me mention tool quality. Don't throw your $ out the window on cheap tools you will need to replace. In my humble opinion, Craftsman is no longer a good name. I have a few Craftsman tools I wish I didn't own for instance, my 12inch band saw is a 4 year old craftsman and the tensioner has broken twice and the switch is stuck in the "ON" position. I had to buy a foot pedal switch to turn the saw on and off. I'm sure some folks will strongly disagree with me on this one and that's fine. I own a JET table saw that cost me twice as much as a Craftsman but it's very dependable and very accurate. It's 13 years since I bought it and I still smile when I turn it on.

For kitchen cabinets, you will also need a router (minimum of 2hp to turn those big panel bits) and a router table. Now you could make flat panels on the table saw depending on your skill level. I mention the "skill level" because if you want to make tight square doors on the ts, you'll need to know your joinery. 

Speaking of joinery, do you want dovetails on your drawers and if so, do you know how to make them? A router and a dovetail jig can make the task easier but dovetails can be made on the ts or by hand. There's a few folks on this forum who makes great looking furniture using hand tools only. 

Think about your skill level and let us know so we can help you better.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

BigJoe16 said:


> That's a pretty general question. You could spend any amount of money.
> 
> Do you want new or used tools?
> 120V or 220V?
> ...



Thanks, yes, a little focus might help.

I will put 220 in if necessary; I don't know if it is. I'd like to spend the minimum possible to get the necessary tools that are of good enough quality to make nice looking cabinets. I do not know who makes table saws (aside from what you see at Sears, Home Depot, etc.). If I knew how to assess the condition of a used table saw, I'd be fine with used, to save money. I'm an hour from El Paso and have a pickup so could buy used. 
I didn't think about portability. It would be good to be able to move the equipment out of the way when my workshop is being used for other stuff, but need not be transportable to a different location (e.g. job site). My home will be the job site. 

Thanks, hope that helps narrow my needs...

Jim


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

BernieL said:


> I often make this same comment to folks starting out in woodworking... only buy the tools you need for whatever task you are doing.
> 
> First, let me mention tool quality. Don't throw your $ out the window on cheap tools you will need to replace. In my humble opinion, Craftsman is no longer a good name. I have a few Craftsman tools I wish I didn't own for instance, my 12inch band saw is a 4 year old craftsman and the tensioner has broken twice and the switch is stuck in the "ON" position. I had to buy a foot pedal switch to turn the saw on and off. I'm sure some folks will strongly disagree with me on this one and that's fine. I own a JET table saw that cost me twice as much as a Craftsman but it's very dependable and very accurate. It's 13 years since I bought it and I still smile when I turn it on.
> 
> ...


Thanks. You can assume my skill level is nil. I have no experience with woodworking beyond cutting pieces of wood with my Skill saw to make crude tables, stands, shelves for my hobbies, etc. 

As to whether to buy a dedicated tool (e.g. for making dovetails) or just do it with the TS or by hand, I don't want to spend a lifetime on this and have a busy career, so if something is needed frequently in making cabinets, I would like to buy the tool for it, to get the job done, unless the price makes me decide otherwise. Basically, if a tool will make the cabinets look better, and significantly cut the time needed, I'll tend to buy it. But I don't know what I'm in for here price wise (ergo my question). How I approach all this will be heavily influenced by price. I do not want to start a new hobby of woodworking, and since I love working with wood and really love wood, I have to guard against that. I have hobbies and don't want to take time away from them. So I just want to get the cabinets built, and it will be nice to have the tools when I want to make something else, or I may just sell them, having completed the needed work on the house. So though I love nothing more than a beautifully made, fine tool, spending twice the $$ on a JET if a Craftsman will make just as pretty a cabinet with about the same time investment is probably not the right approach for me. If a Craftsman is going to cause me to redo cuts, buy extra wood, settle for less perfect work, then the JET might be in line depending on cost. 

I guess I should emphasize that the objective is just to make the cabinets needed in my home, then I may or may not sell the tools off.

Thanks for your very thoughtful message.

Jim


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*30 years ago I made my own kitchen cabs*

I used a Craftsman table saw and Melamine surface 1/2" particle board. 10 years later I bought commercial cabs by Welborn Mission style in Hickory....Great! 

You not only need a good table saw, but a big side extension for ripping wide panels and an outfeed table UNLESS you part down the panels into smaller pieces using a Skil saw and straight edge guide measuring 2X for each cut...PITA!

There are track saws by Grizzly, Makita, Dewalt and Festool $$$ that are pretty good for panel and sheet goods. Unless you have a serious budget restriction, love to work with larger heavy panels, love woodworking, measuring, precision measuring and cutting I would look for some commercial cabinets on sale or through a builders supply. 

I still have the Craftsman saw from the 80's and it still works just fine.... and since then I've made other cabinets and vanities and head board, chest, jewelry boxes and a variety of woodworking projects. You mentioned selling the tools after making the cabs, which makes me think you should just buy and not get to far into woodworking ....I donno?


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

Hello,

Other then what has already been posted, I would suggest doing some research online, Go to youtube and search for cabinet making videos and take notes on what tools are being used. everything from table saws to routers to cordless drills. make your list, then check the reviews on them. If your starting out with zero or very few tools and are at a beginner skill level I would also check into some woodworking classes. hit up the local collage(s) and see if there is a rockler store or woodcraft store in your area. They sell mid to high end tools. but they also have listings of local classes that would benefit you more then the tools themselves. 

I wish you the best of luck on your endeavors. It will be a rough road. but the end will be worth the travel!


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Thank you guys. I just got back from Home Depot, found a mid priced cabinet style that was OK, sorta, and got a very rough estimate of 7000 for their catinets. It was 185 a linear foot or so. I have an appointment tomorrow morning with their cabinet guy who also built all the cabinets in his own home, to go over stuff. My gut reaction right now is, wow, 7000 would buy a nice shop, but I don't know how much the wood would cost. My other gut reaction was everything I saw at HD was not appealing. I really want some beautiful cabinets. I can probably find some at a more upscale shop, but then more money. Making my own is more appealing than ever. 

HD had a portable and a cast iron table saw each around 500. Can the portable do a good job if you build surrounding tables to support the work?

Good idea on watching youtube videos and making a list of the tools needed. I think I'll start with Norm though...

The entire New Yankee Workshop show is here free online:
http://www.tv.com/shows/the-new-yankee-workshop/episodes/

Season 20 is the kitchen series. There are shows that are tutorials on the table saw, the router, etc. too. 

Thanks for spurring me to search for this, this show is fascinating and I used to watch it a lot .

I am taking two carpentry classes at the Jr. College next fall, to learn how to frame my workshop. I don't know if they have cabinetry classes.

Jim


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

I said the same thing when I built my kitchen cabinets, that I would probably sell my tools after I was done. I knew nothing of woodworking, at all. A good friend told me he would help me by showing me what to do and how to do it. He said he would buy my tablesaw when I was done, if I didn't want it any more. By the time we were finished, I was hooked. I didn't really have any other hobbies up until then. But I knew I'd found one by the time my kitchen was done. I've been a woodworking addict since then. Good luck with your cabinets, and if you have questions along the way, c'mon back and ask em. The folks are very knowlegeable here and are great to help out with answers. They may give you different opinions, but that's the beauty of this forum.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

rayking49 said:


> I said the same thing when I built my kitchen cabinets, that I would probably sell my tools after I was done. I knew nothing of woodworking, at all. A good friend told me he would help me by showing me what to do and how to do it. He said he would buy my tablesaw when I was done, if I didn't want it any more. By the time we were finished, I was hooked. I didn't really have any other hobbies up until then. But I knew I'd found one by the time my kitchen was done. I've been a woodworking addict since then. Good luck with your cabinets, and if you have questions along the way, c'mon back and ask em. The folks are very knowlegeable here and are great to help out with answers. They may give you different opinions, but that's the beauty of this forum.



Thanks Ray. You've come a long way. The Cherry table you made for your wife is just mind blowing. Amazing!!! My jaw is still stuck to my desk. Wow, that is beautiful. 

Then I started looking at other people's galleries. Now I am really intimidated. Wow, you guys are good, and make beautiful stuff. It's certainly nothing like Ashley furniture. And that's kinda how I want to feel about my kitchen cabinets. 

I guess after the cabinets, I would enjoy making my own furniture...

Jim


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

To determine what you would need minimally, you have to decide what kind of cabinet you want to make. What material for the boxes, what finish for the interior, exterior, what type of doors, etc.

For a minimum budget, you could conceivably just need a table saw. But, as you will find out the costs involved for you to make them aren't just with the machinery, as there are other tools needed (depending) that can get into your budget, like hand tools, hardware supplies, etc. So, making the initial decisions can better place guesswork on costs, and what you will need.


















.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

BernieL said:


> I often make this same comment to folks starting out in woodworking... only buy the tools you need for whatever task you are doing.
> 
> First, let me mention tool quality. Don't throw your $ out the window on cheap tools you will need to replace. In my humble opinion, Craftsman is no longer a good name. I have a few Craftsman tools I wish I didn't own for instance, my 12inch band saw is a 4 year old craftsman and the tensioner has broken twice and the switch is stuck in the "ON" position. I had to buy a foot pedal switch to turn the saw on and off. I'm sure some folks will strongly disagree with me on this one and that's fine. I own a JET table saw that cost me twice as much as a Craftsman but it's very dependable and very accurate. It's 13 years since I bought it and I still smile when I turn it on.
> 
> ...


I will be one to disagree with the poster on Craftsman tools. Over they years I have found that they do a very good for my needs. virtually all power tools that I own are Craftsman. I would not hesitate to buy more if needed.

George


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

river251 said:


> Thanks. You can assume my skill level is nil. I have no experience with woodworking beyond cutting pieces of wood with my Skill saw to make crude tables, stands, shelves for my hobbies, etc.
> 
> As to whether to buy a dedicated tool (e.g. for making dovetails) or just do it with the TS or by hand, I don't want to spend a lifetime on this and have a busy career, so if something is needed frequently in making cabinets, I would like to buy the tool for it, to get the job done, unless the price makes me decide otherwise. Basically, if a tool will make the cabinets look better, and significantly cut the time needed, I'll tend to buy it. But I don't know what I'm in for here price wise (ergo my question). How I approach all this will be heavily influenced by price. I do not want to start a new hobby of woodworking, and since I love working with wood and really love wood, I have to guard against that. I have hobbies and don't want to take time away from them. So I just want to get the cabinets built, and it will be nice to have the tools when I want to make something else, or I may just sell them, having completed the needed work on the house. So though I love nothing more than a beautifully made, fine tool, spending twice the $$ on a JET if a Craftsman will make just as pretty a cabinet with about the same time investment is probably not the right approach for me. If a Craftsman is going to cause me to redo cuts, buy extra wood, settle for less perfect work, then the JET might be in line depending on cost.
> 
> ...


"If a Craftsman is going to cause me to redo cuts, buy extra wood, settle for less perfect work, then the JET might be in line depending on cost. "

You will not have this problem because of the tool.

I would not go into this project thinking it may be a one time effort. As you get into wood working the enjoyment of making your own products grown on you.

I assume that you are going to build the shop before tackling the kitchen cabinets. As you build this shop you will probably get more and more knowledge as to what tools you will want.

Good luck.

George


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

You're good to disagree with me George and I'm sure others would be with you. Like I said, my experience with my band saw was a nightmare and maybe I bought a lemon that left me with a bad taste.

Now Jim - if you're going to build yourself a workshop, that is a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to build cabinets. Build your self a nice simple workbench using simple joinery. A workbench needs to be secure, stable and smooth surface. Then you can build a router table, or buy a table and build a small cabinet for it. You're workshop will need storage - so let it grow along with your skills. There is a lot to learn about woodworking before you can make cabinets that look as good as the ones you didn't like at HD, things you have no clue - like wood movement.
Wood expands and contracts with the seasons.

Like previously stated - this is a great forum with lots of talent. Many of us like our hobby so much, we love to share. And we can disagree and still like one another. I guess we respect woodworkers.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Listen to cabinetman:



> To determine what you would need minimally, you have to decide what kind of cabinet you want to make. What material for the boxes, what finish for the interior, exterior, what type of doors, etc.


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## craigwbryant (Jan 22, 2012)

river251 said:


> Thanks. You can assume my skill level is nil. I have no experience with woodworking beyond cutting pieces of wood with my Skill saw to make crude tables, stands, shelves for my hobbies, etc.
> 
> As to whether to buy a dedicated tool (e.g. for making dovetails) or just do it with the TS or by hand, I don't want to spend a lifetime on this and have a busy career, so if something is needed frequently in making cabinets, I would like to buy the tool for it, to get the job done, unless the price makes me decide otherwise. Basically, if a tool will make the cabinets look better, and significantly cut the time needed, I'll tend to buy it. But I don't know what I'm in for here price wise (ergo my question). How I approach all this will be heavily influenced by price. I do not want to start a new hobby of woodworking, and since I love working with wood and really love wood, I have to guard against that. I have hobbies and don't want to take time away from them. So I just want to get the cabinets built, and it will be nice to have the tools when I want to make something else, or I may just sell them, having completed the needed work on the house. So though I love nothing more than a beautifully made, fine tool, spending twice the $$ on a JET if a Craftsman will make just as pretty a cabinet with about the same time investment is probably not the right approach for me. If a Craftsman is going to cause me to redo cuts, buy extra wood, settle for less perfect work, then the JET might be in line depending on cost.
> 
> ...


No disrespect meant here, but based on your comments that you do not have a lot of knowledge about woodworking and you are planning to sell the tools after this job, I would echo the sentiments of several other folks here that you probably should look into purchasing some cabinets instead of building your own. In my experience/opinion, woodworking tools are kind of like golf clubs, its all about the skill of the operator, you could hand me Tiger Woods' clubs and his caddy, I'm still not going to break par. Same concept applies to woodworking tools, you could spend $3000 (or even more) on a really sweet brand new shiny cabinet saw, if you have no experience/training, you're not going to be turning out Stickley furniture.

Cabinetmaking is just one of many "disciplines" within the overarching umbrella of woodworking (turning, casework, intarsia, etc just to name a few), but it is also one of the most difficult, especially when building finish cabinetry for a home. Most folks who do their own cabinets have either (a) gone to school for it or (b) have been working in the field for years to learn how to do it. Like a few folks on here posted, there are more variables than can possibly be listed here that go into cabinet making and it really is much complicated than simply cutting and gluing up some plywood panels. My thoughts are that you likely want these cabinets to look really nice, and while I'm not doubting your erstwhileness, if your first project is cabinets odds are pretty strong that they won't be of the quality your searching for.

You also mention having a busy career and not wanting this project to take a lifetime. I have no clue how many cabinets you are planning to build for this kitchen, but if you're only getting to work on it for maybe an hour or two each evening after work and a little bit on the weekends, its going to take quite a while. I am in the same boat, I am an Army officer and when I'm in a unit 14+ hour days aren't unusual, when you subtract out requisite husband/daddy duties on the weekends my shop time gets very limited, so even the small furniture projects I undertake wind up taking me a long time.

If you are dead set that you're going to do this, however, more important than the tools you purchase will be getting some really good plans. There are plenty of plans out there on how to build cabinets and if you spend some time reading through the forum pages here you'll pick up some great tips and see some folks sharing their experiences (both good and bad). Take the recommendation of another poster to practice by building some cabinets for your shop.


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## Mandres (Sep 6, 2011)

Agreed. You will not come out ahead building your own. It takes a lot of knowledge/experience and many thousands of dollars worth of equipment to produce even mid-range quality cabinets. Not to mention space, assembly tables, jigs, fixtures, and all the other overhead and intangibles that go into a working shop. 

Yes, you could buy a few sheets of plywood, cut them up with a circular saw, glue them into boxes and hang them up. But they'll look like they belong in a garage to anyone who sees them. 

With some care and basic woodworking tools including a table saw and router you could conceivably build the boxes yourself and then order the doors and drawers from a production shop. Still a lot of time, expense and trouble. 

My suggestion for budget cabinets is to look at what Ikea offers.


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

Well I'm glad we're going in the right direction here. I was softly trying to suggest to you Jim that building cabinets is quite an undertaking and you need a lot of knowledge. It will take years to build a modest amount unless that's all you want to do for the next couple of years. I spent all of 7 months remodeling my kitchen and I bought the cabinets from Home Depot. They are really nice and well made. I figured with the cost of lumber and hardware etc., It didn't cost me much more buying the finished product with soft closing drawers and doors. We have a sliding big drawer for spices and oils etc., sliding shelves, 2 tier utensil drawer and more. 

It took me 7 months to remodel and I'm retired. But in my defense, I doubled the size of the kitchen by knocking down 2 weight bearing walls and added part of the barn to the kitchen. I ended up with new floors and ceilings, lighting, plumbing and electrical. 

Now for an additional kicker... do you know anything about hanging the cabinets and dealing with uneven floors? This whole new can of worms can get quite complicated especially if you intend on installing expensive counter tops. My wife and I have been in our home for 29 years and we've been talking about a new kitchen for years. So we did not hold back and bought "Silestone" counter tops from Home Depot. They are quartz and we can cut and prepare food right on them and set hot pans right off the stove. These counter tops are warrantied for life... but I was not allowed to install them myself. To warranty them, they had to do the final install to make sure they would be set on a perfectly level surface. The installers were very happy with my set up work and they didn't even use 1 shim. It took them less then an hour to install - but took me days to get all the cabinets level and straight. When installing a line of cabinets, they have to be level and flush and straight. All of this is done on a floor that is not level and walls that only appear to be straight.

None of us want to stop you from doing what you wish, but you are taking a huge task and I hate to say it - you're flying blind. So concentrate on a workshop - learn by doing - and start with baby steps. Good luck and I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news. I'm sure we are all willing to help if you push forward.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*What about the house...?*



BernieL said:


> *
> Now Jim - if you're going to build yourself a workshop, that is a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to build cabinets*.



Amen to this :yes:. Learn how to build them by making cabinets for the shop first. 

Now the big picture question... what about the house? Are you staying there long term? Do you plan to sell soon? Is your job long term and stable? These are important questions that will determine if you want entry level cabinets from a box store or the next grade better or if you think you can at a minimum duplicate the fit, finish and quality of the low end cabinets...?

As I posted earlier my homebuilt cabinets did not compare to the upper level Wellborn I purchased through a kitchen cabinet store. 
These cabinets were part of a $50 K kitchen remodel with an addition, new appliances, cabinets, windows, flooring, and Zodiac quartz countertops....$140/sq ft. I intend to live here forever and have already been here 33 years. The counter top installer and I became friends and we bartered, trading a Viking stove for about 5K in materials. I did the electrical wiring, installed and leveling of the floor, cabinets and hung the uppers.... all of which saved me a bag of money. :thumbsup:


The kitchen is the "showplace" of the home and should be of as high quality as possible to increase it's value and have a good return on your investment. This is as much of a financial decision as it is one of workworking skills and tool purchases. :yes:


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> The kitchen is the "showplace" of the home and should be of as high quality as possible to increase it's value and have a good return on your investment. This is as much of a financial decision as it is one of workworking skills and tool purchases. :yes:


You nailed it!

I consider the kitchen remodel job I did is about a $60k job that cost me $14,658.37. That includes the cabinets, sink, dishwasher, insulation and all the building materials including lots of new led lighting. I did about 97% of the work (not counting the factory build cabinets which I bought at Home Depot and they are not cheap - well built and I'm happy with the quality). The wife was so impressed with the way I did the work, she's still asking me if I need any more tools.


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

If your experience is NIL and you've never used a table saw before. I would recommend you look into a SawStop table saw. Your fingers are worth the extra $$ one of these will cost you.

$7000 can buy you a lot of tools or it can buy you only one or two tools its all up to you.


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## Crusader (Jan 14, 2013)

Well I have to say it's nice to see some "real world" responses here.
After reading the op's story, the first thing that came to mind was RUN! to Home Depot and save yourself an amazing amount of grief.

No offense intended, but if you know nothing about woodworking/cabinetmaking, your in for a big heaping helping of Son of a *&#@*!! Starting out by trying to make your own cabinets is the last thing I would recommend. Think about it, and then think about it some more.

Either way I wish you good luck on your new home! :thumbsup:


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

I typed a long comprehensive answer and then the site crashed my end

this kitchen









these tools as a minimum

tape
hammer
nail punch
Orbital sander
circular saw
drill
drill bits
screw bits or screw driver
sand paper
2 clamps
router
angle grinder for cutting and sanding
tap for tapping thread (I made my own handles from recycled railway nails / spikes
Router and parallel cutter
spirit level
pencil
square

to make a little easier

more clamps
string line
chalk line
cut-off saw
router table
impact driver
jig saw

even easier still

nail gun (i did have)
panel saw (did not have)
drum sander (did not have)

if you want to know more let me know, if no reply PM me

This kitchen used all recycled materials as it was in keeping with the style of the house and what I wanted to achieve. It actually looks better in person than in this picture


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## michialt (May 22, 2013)

The biggest question I haven't seen asked is once you are finished with the cabinets what are your plans withthe tools.

You mentioned your skill is nil, not a good starting point for cabinets for inside the house. You might be money and time ahead by buying ready to hang cabinets.

Im in the middle of doing cabinets for my garage, and eventually my house as well. Most of my basic wood tools started off as cheap tools. For the most part I've "gotten by"

My cheap ryobi table saw was the biggest mistake. You wont need a huge expensive cabinet saw if all your going to do is cabinets and then nothing else. But do yourself a huge favor and buy a good saw with good base and top. A couple of weeks ago I was ripping some 1x12s on the ryobi, and the outfeed jammed and I pulled the table over and could have lost a foot.

only other tools im using for cabinets are cheap black and decker router, a buscuit joint cutter, compound miter saw and drill.

I am going to buy a good quality jointer/router table soon, but I want this for future projects too. I have 3 Ryobi 18v cordless drills, but thats because I hate changing back and forth between pilot bit, drill bit and screw driver.

I havent done my cabinet doors yet. I have a planer that im sure I will be using for the doors.

Start buying clamps NOW, and when you think you have twice as many as you need, buy double that number, and still be ready to buy more...





river251 said:


> I just bought a foreclosed house that will need the kitchen and bathrooms rebuilt, especially the kitchen cabinets.
> 
> I will build a 20x30 workshop in the back yard on a concrete foundation over the next year. It will serve many purposes.
> 
> ...


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

What a lot of great questions. You're right, my life situation affects my decisions quite a bit, so a little background. I'm 58, a tenured professor, and love Las Cruces and my little university. I plan to retire when I have to for whatever reason. I'm happiest when I'm in my laboratory with a few good graduate students. I got my job at 48 (after careers bartending, as a systems analyst, and other stuff) and tenure at 54 at which point I bought my first property, a duplex I planned to live in one side of permanently, but I've been an aspiring musician for 45 years and can't share a wall with others, so started looking for a house 6 months ago. I finally made an offer on a foreclosure but was rejected. Then I found this house. It's prime asset is that I can get on my ($$$ carbon fiber) bicycle and in a couple blocks be on our fantastic out of town network of no-traffic cycling roads (love Las Cruces). I cycle at least 1 and sometimes 2 or 3 hours a day. Have to for health reasons and love it. OK I'm getting a little far afield, sorry. 
So this is my house for life. A cool two sided fireplace, big back yard, in the foothills of the mountains, a really nice, old, 70's brick house university neighborhood a couple blocks from school. Really reminds me of the nice residential areas in California. Tan rough brick, 2 car garage, all quite a step up in luxury for this old bachelor who has lived like a student all his life. It's a foreclosure and will need work. I'll do as much as possible myself. I remodeled my duplex inside and out. Sheetrock, painting, building interior walls, cedar fencing all around, concrete patio... 

I am fine with taking my time to an extent, say take a year making the cabinets. Being a bachelor only I have to look at the half built state of things. 

I met with the guy who runs the kitchen shop at Home Depot yesterday. I had been looking at Woodnthings' kitchen cabinet. Looked like any kitchen cabinet to me in structure. But when I talked to Albert, an architectural draftsman by training, he drew these really intricate plans for building a cabinet box and I realized that most cabinets are boxes. I drew Woodnthings' cabinet style and he said that is a "fremeless cabinet" of which they sell some. I said why cut all those pieces and put them together when you could just make a book case with doors? Albert said it is so they'd be portable and reconfigurable. That makes no sense for me. So if I build them I plan to do it like Woodnthings' cabinets. However, drawers are a big question mark to me. Can I get high quality drawers that I can put the "front" on? I guess the drawer section will have to be built "box style." And I can make the drawers, I know how more or less.

So the style of Home Depot cabinets I liked most was solid slab doors. That is what I've always envisioned. I don't want doors that have all the fancy shaping, grooves, routing, etc. I like flat, squared off wood, preferably ash or maple or something light, and so that you do not see the frames or any facing, you just see the doors with slight cracks between them. But Home Depot did not have attractive wood on these, though it was solid wood. I estimated around 7000-8000 for my kitchen. If I built my own, bookcase, non-box style, cabinets and hung rectangular flat slab solid wood doors, it seems a LOT easier than making cabinets like the ones Home Depot sells to most people, like the intricate box that would need about 9 pieces of wood just to make the box, not including shelves. 

Looking at Woodnthings' cabinets, and the ones pictured by Dave, you can not get cabinets like that at Home Depot. Being the old ex-hippie I am, I have always loved to see things in homes obviously hand crafted from wood rather than "store bought." Were I lucky enough to be married I'm sure my wife would disagree but fortunately or unfortunately I don't have that problem. I'd rather have Woodnthings' or Dave's beautiful cabinets than anything I saw at Home Depot. 

But I could certainly live with the slab design they have. So now that I know I want this simple frameless design with square slab doors of nice solid wood and shelving of less expensive wood, maybe plywood?.... the next step is to find out how much the wood would cost by calling Austin Hardwoods in El Paso. 

I am willing to put aside all my hobbies for a year once my 20 x 30 workshop is built, and focus all my non-work time on building my kitchen (thought I may be forced to do my bathrooms first...). 

I can see myself spending most of my spare time for the next 2 -3 years building my workshop and rebuilding my kitchen and bathrooms. When I said I didn't want it to take forever, I meant I don't want to spend 3 years on the kitchen cabinets. 

So I should know the cost of wood today. Then I am having the "refacing" company, that refaces the frames and hangs new doors, look at the kitchen and find out what that would look like and cost. 

Then I'll decide whether to build myself, have the nicest slab style installed, or get the cabinets refaced. All choices will be compromises of what I really want, time, and money in some combination. 

I sure am glad I found this place. Hope I don't drive you all nuts.

Jim


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

michialt said:


> The biggest question I haven't seen asked is once you are finished with the cabinets what are your plans withthe tools.
> 
> You mentioned your skill is nil, not a good starting point for cabinets for inside the house. You might be money and time ahead by buying ready to hang cabinets.
> 
> ...


After I build cabinets for kitchen and bathroom, maybe some furniture, I won't have anything else Ineed. Since I do have hobbies that I want to spend my time on, once I have made the things I need I won't have a need for a wood shop. I can't see keeping everything and making projects just for fun, that I don't really need. I think if I can find a decent set of the most necessary tools for the cabinets I described in my last post, then I can resell them without too much of a loss.

Sorry to hear about the Ryobi, it sounds downright dangerous. When I buy I can probably get some good tips here.

Jim


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you mentioned my cabinets*











Just to let you know, this cabinet was made of solid red oak 12" wide boards for the shelves, sides and top and bottom. The back is 3/4" ply recessed in a dado. It is glued and nailed at all intersection on the back. The shelves are dadoed in the sides and the verticals. There are a lot of intersecting joints that must be assembled simultaneously when gluing it up....tedious and frustrating. Then because it is all one piece 4ft X 10 ft, it is very heavy and was made 1/4" less long then the room for it to slide into it's location. The doors were hung after it was screwed to the studs through the back. 

I made the beveled leaded glass panels for the doors and took a class to learn the leading and soldering techniques. I did NOT bevel my own glass, rather bought the pieces that would would for the size I needed. It was rather expensive at the time. The lower cabinets are 3 drawer units Wellborn that serve as the pantry. 

I made the cabinet using a 10" Craftsman tablesaw and a 10" Craftsman radial arm saw, no other power tools. I used a jig to cut the slots in the miters after the doors were glued and assembled

Hope this will help you in making your decision. :yes:


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

My 2 cents....

You plan to get old here, so do the two step 
bones first, sexy later

During the course of a full year, you'll learn about the place in different conditions. First fix any problems or make any changes to 

foundation, 

drainage, 

weather envelope (siding, roof, gutters, caulking, drainage planes), 

thermal envelope (insulation for heating/cooling), 

mechanicals (plumbing, heating, power, etc)


By the time you finish all of that, you will have accumulated some tools and can apply the wisdom learned when deciding how much of the sex appeal you want to tackle, and in what order.

In your place, when I started doing sexy, I would start in the furthest room from my workshop and finish it first. Then move to the next furthest. That way, you don't have to drag demo debris across a new floor, or navigate your ladder or drywall panels around freshly finished wall surfaces.

Good luck!


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> Just to let you know, this cabinet was made of solid red oak 12" wide boards for the shelves, sides and top and bottom. The back is 3/4" ply recessed in a dado. It is glued and nailed at all intersection on the back. The shelves are dadoed in the sides and the verticals. There are a lot of intersecting joints that must be assembled simultaneously when gluing it up....tedious and frustrating. Then because it is all one piece 4ft X 10 ft, it is very heavy and was made 1/4" less long then the room for it to slide into it's location. The doors were hung after it was screwed to the studs through the back.
> 
> I made the beveled leaded glass panels for the doors and took a class to learn the leading and soldering techniques. I did NOT bevel my own glass, rather bought the pieces that would would for the size I needed. It was rather expensive at the time. The lower cabinets are 3 drawer units Wellborn that serve as the pantry.
> 
> ...


Thanks. How much do you think all the wood cost, and how long ago was it that you built it? I sure do like it. The glass will be beyond me, I'll have to settle for solid doors to save time and because I like them. But if I had the time I'd do what you did, it looks wonderful. 

Glad to hear you could do that with just those saws. Did you do the dados with the table saw?

Jim


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

SteveEl said:


> My 2 cents....
> 
> You plan to get old here, so do the two step
> bones first, sexy later
> ...


That sounds wise. I am sure my impression of what is needed will change with time. I actually don't own it yet, my offer was accepted but there are several hurdles to get past before it's a done deal and I can move in. 

Seems like a good logical order to approach things, once I am in I will start keeping a list of what's needed and that is a good way to organize it. Good tip on doing the rooms farthest from the shop. First I will have to rip out the carpet so will be dragging across a concrete slab at first. Will be doing hardwood and tile floors, I'm done with carpet forever.

Jim


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## Mandres (Sep 6, 2011)

river251 said:


> What a lot of great questions. You're right, my life situation affects my decisions quite a bit, so a little background...
> 
> Jim


Ok, I'm going to amend my previous post  You can definitely do this, and you're in the right place asking the right questions. It sounds like you have 3 factors working for you that will make it possible: no time constraint, no wife/partner to hassle you about getting it done, and enough intelligence to research and plan each step thoroughly. 

I still don't think you'll come out $ ahead when it's all said and done, but you'll have enough experience in the shop to make pretty much anything else you could want for your house. 

The cabinets you're talking about with the solid door face and no face-frames are referred to as European style. There are a lot of good books and online resources out there to get you familiar with the build process.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Mandres said:


> Ok, I'm going to amend my previous post  You can definitely do this, and you're in the right place asking the right questions. It sounds like you have 3 factors working for you that will make it possible: no time constraint, no wife/partner to hassle you about getting it done, and enough intelligence to research and plan each step thoroughly.
> 
> I still don't think you'll come out $ ahead when it's all said and done, but you'll have enough experience in the shop to make pretty much anything else you could want for your house.
> 
> The cabinets you're talking about with the solid door face and no face-frames are referred to as European style. There are a lot of good books and online resources out there to get you familiar with the build process.


Thanks for the encouragement Mandres. Good, now I know how to refer to the cabinet style. Do you think these are going to be easier and faster to make? 

I was not able to get to calling the wood supplier, so can't comment on price. You may be right though when one adds in the cost of the tools.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

BKBuilds said:


> If your experience is NIL and you've never used a table saw before. I would recommend you look into a SawStop table saw. Your fingers are worth the extra $$ one of these will cost you.
> 
> $7000 can buy you a lot of tools or it can buy you only one or two tools its all up to you.



Thanks, I will definitely look into that.


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## BudK (Mar 6, 2007)

I am doing a similar project in my kitchen & am ordering tools today . Most are upgrades to tools I have with some additional . I picked up some cabinetmaking books & decided (with my wife of course) the cabinets & features she wanted . It turned out what she wanted would cost upwards of 30,000 $ if custom built professionally ..Without counter tops .

So I am going to build face frame cabinets with inset doors & butt hinges. Fits in with the theme & age of the house .
I have a moderate amount of experience in woodworking .

Tool list .

Table saw with cast wings (Sawstop) Cheap finger insurance .
22-44 drum sander & random orbital hand sander.
Sliding table router table (for Cope & stick , raised panel doors.) bits . Dedicated 3+ hp router
Leigh dovetail jig ( for drawers .)
Dado set 8"
hinge bits 
A mere sh1tload of clamps .
Pocket hole jig set (Drastically reduces the # of additional clamps to buy ) For the face frames . (I can hear it comin'...)
Already have a 13" surface planer & bandsaw, jointer & drillpress . Hand planes , chisels ..

If you are not doing cope & stick , I would add a mortising press. & maybe delete the router table .
Bits , blades , Finishing materials ... Still want to do this ?
A Maple or your tree of choice .
Glue .

Can do attitude .

Near 7 grand right there without the wood .


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

BudK said:


> I am doing a similar project in my kitchen & am ordering tools today . Most are upgrades to tools I have with some additional . I picked up some cabinetmaking books & decided (with my wife of course) the cabinets & features she wanted . It turned out what she wanted would cost upwards of 30,000 $ if custom built professionally ..Without counter tops .
> 
> So I am going to build face frame cabinets with inset doors & butt hinges. Fits in with the theme & age of the house .
> I have a moderate amount of experience in woodworking .
> ...



Wow. Makes me think, alright. I need to look up some of the tools you mentioned. But that makes the Home Depot cabinet job look better. 

Thanks.


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## Bastien (Apr 3, 2013)

BudK said:


> I am doing a similar project in my kitchen & am ordering tools today . Most are upgrades to tools I have with some additional . I picked up some cabinetmaking books & decided (with my wife of course) the cabinets & features she wanted . It turned out what she wanted would cost upwards of 30,000 $ if custom built professionally ..Without counter tops .
> 
> So I am going to build face frame cabinets with inset doors & butt hinges. Fits in with the theme & age of the house .
> I have a moderate amount of experience in woodworking .
> ...


Ya, so. Think of all the cool tools you'll have left over


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## clpead (Oct 10, 2012)

If we take the cost of the tools and supplies out of the equation I think there is still a problem with your plan. You have to finish them. Finishing (at a high level) is an art in and of itself. I'm not sure you or anyone can finish like the cabinet/furniture makers on here on your first attempt. I also plan to do my own cabinets but that is 6 years away. I have most of the tools I need but am learning to do things slowly. Finishing seems to have the steepest learning curve. I don't want to discourage you but alot of the guys on here do this for a living. You and I can't just pick it up overnight. They get more experience in a week than I do in a couple of months. Just my 2 cents.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You are so right!*

Not only does it require some technical knowledge of chemicals, it also require some skill... but that can be developed. The last thing it requires is a huge amount of space in a dust free environment unless you use lacquer or other fast drying finish. Cabinets themselves require a large amount of space to build, store and finish unless you make them one at a time.

You can also purchase pre-finished plywood in various thicknesses, but then you must be very cautious not to damage the finish in the construction process. http://www.kencraftstore.com/ply3.htm


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> Not only does it require some technical knowledge of chemicals, it also require some skill... but that can be developed. The last thing it requires is a huge amount of space in a dust free environment unless you use lacquer or other fast drying finish. Cabinets themselves require a large amount of space to build, store and finish unless you make them one at a time.
> 
> You can also purchase pre-finished plywood in various thicknesses, but then you must be very cautious not to damage the finish in the construction process. http://www.kencraftstore.com/ply3.htm



How much space did you have to use for yours?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*a 2 car garage shop*



river251 said:


> How much space did you have to use for yours?


Building, then gluing, clamping and assembling and then finishing a whole small kitchen requires at least that amount of floor space.... just in my experience.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm going to chime in with a slightly different viewpoint.

To do a thorough, professional job worthy of a high end kitchen, everyone who has spoken up is absolutely right.

That said, though, there's another possibility. I looked at a lot of houses before I bought my last one, and a lot of them were of the "country kitsch" style. Here's how you could do it, if you wanted it a lot cheaper:

1) Plywood. Buy cabinet grade. There's no way around buying good plywood, but you don't HAVE to buy birch. A lot of places I looked at had standard cabinet grade plywood. (A few had BC, and it looked TERRIBLE.)

2) Do a face frame in premium pine. It's (relatively) cheap, and if you're not trying to make it look like high end wood it looks fine. You can cut it to length with hand tools (do yourself a favor and buy a good hand saw if you're going to try), and fasten it in place with glue and brads.

3) Buy plastic drawers. I lived in a condo that had them, and they're ugly inside but they work fine. The ones there were basically plastic trays with built-in runners, and the installer attached a solid wood front to them.

4) Paint, rather than staining. A good grade of water-resistant paint (do NOT skimp on that) isn't that expensive, and it's a lot easier than finishing with stain. Also, it hides a lot of problems with the ply. I recommend sanding and priming, first, based on my experience with bathroom cabinets.


This reduces your required toolset. You need to be able to make long cuts in a piece of plywood: a good circular saw and edge guide can accomplish that.

You need to be able to join pieces of plywood. I advocate rabbeting, which in plywood is probably easiest with a small router if you're not like me (I hate routers, and I'll go to almost any length to not use one). I've done it with a rabbet plane (hand powered), but it dulls the blade fast. I don't really recommend it. A table saw with a dado stack might be more efficient, but it's a bigger and more expensive tool.

You'll need to fasten the boards together. I've build shop furniture out of plywood. For that, rabbeting and finish nails to hold it together while glue dries worked fine. Getting a pneumatic nailer made that a lot easier.

Cabinet doors can be replaced with curtains, or you can use either pre-built doors, or you can do plywood panels with off-the-shelf trim to look like rail and stile. It won't be perfect, but it's easy, and paint will hide a lot.

Finally, if you build to standard sizes, you can put a pre-built off-the-rack laminate countertop on. Will it be the most beautiful thing you've ever seen? Nope. But it'll work. And it can go on with construction adhesive, if you really want, so no special tools required.


So: if you want a high end kitchen, yes. It's going to cost a lot. But for a minimum set for functional, you're probably looking at a screwdriver, a battery powered drill (for pre-drilling hinges and the like), a hammer, a circular saw with a couple of blades, and a long straight edge guide. And don't forget time. It will take a lot of time, and a certain willingness to screw things up and buy new material. That's kind of inevitable if you've never done this kind of project before. Space can still be a problem, but if you assemble the boxes one at a time you can build them in a one car garage, then move them into place as you go. More time consuming, but entirely doable.


That won't be the most attractive kitchen ever. But if the rest of the house suits, and you take care in your measurements, it can be made to work. I've seen it done, and it looked fine. A little country-kitsch, but fine. If it was me, I'd go buy pre-built cabinets, but you may make a different decision.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

The center of the cabinet building universe is the table saw, but it is not much use without the proper material handling ability that must be added in the way of an outfeed table and a fence extension.

















This, and a dado set, and a narrow crown staple gun you have the basics.

Bret


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Bret, thanks for the great pictures. What are the dimensions on that whole saw and table top? I'm guessing 10x10?

Andy, thanks. Some of that is a bit too country for me but other ideas are great, and may get incorporated into my plan, if I do go the building route. Still to be determined.

Thanks
Jim


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Lola Ranch said:


> The center of the cabinet building universe is the table saw, but it is not much use without the proper material handling ability that must be added in the way of an outfeed table and a fence extension.
> 
> Bret


You are absolutely right.:yes:
.

























.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

river251 said:


> Bret, thanks for the great pictures. What are the dimensions on that whole saw and table top? I'm guessing 10x10?
> 
> Andy, thanks. Some of that is a bit too country for me but other ideas are great, and may get incorporated into my plan, if I do go the building route. Still to be determined.
> 
> ...



No problem. Like I said, given your stated skill level and time constraints, I'd buy prebuilt. If you don't like the door styles they have, I'd buy pre-built and put new custom doors on them.

The other thing I didn't see anyone mention: Houses aren't square. Be aware that there may not be a 90 degree angle in it anywhere at all. Corners are more likely to be somewhere between 85 and 95 degrees, and the walls most likely won't be plumb. No more than half the walls in my last house were. They're only out a degree or two, but it can make things interesting when you're trying to line cabinets up with two walls and the cabinets are actually square...


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

You'll probably spend more than if you bought at IKEA.

I'll tell you though... Our company just moved into a new location that was furnished with IKEA cabinets. They SUCK. Drawer glides are the little white ones that never work. The doors are not square (and not adjustable). They're horrible. 

I've heard HD has better cabinets. You can always part the job out and pick and choose what you want to do. For instance - have the cabinets and countertop professionally done, but you do all the drywall, lighting, etc.

Not to scare you off, but kitchen projects that dragged on too long have been the start of a lot of marriage tension for many people.

Curtis


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Andy, excellent point. I'll ask about just getting the cabinets built and putting my own doors on. My cabinets themselves should be solid, built in the 70s. 

Since I don't own the house yet, I can't get the Home Depot guys to come give me an estimate on refacing the frames and putting new doors on. But I have the thought that I could ask them about just refacing the cabinets and putting my own doors on. I just don't know if their facing would look good with my door. Have to see when they come.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Ah! If the cabinets that are there are solid but ugly, there's another possibility: paint the existing face frames and put new doors on. I've seen it done really nicely.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

*Affordable table saw and router setup..*

I bought the HomeDepot Ridgid R4512 table saw and used a harbor freight 20% coupon. It's the same as the Craftsman but less cost. With the coupon I got the saw for 400$ and at that price you can't go wrong. It's heavy at around 300lbs so it will not move on you, has built in wheels for when you do want to move it, cast iron top, strong motor that's either 120v/240v depending on what you need and it is very quiet with no vibrations. Again for 400$ its hard to beat! Replace the included blade with something better like a Diablo thin kerf from HD but keep it for rough cuts. An additional out feed table should also be considered to make life easier and safer. Most people would agree that as a DIY homeowner a table saw is nice to have and since I'm not carting my table saw to job sites the R4512 was a better choose over the plasticky job site saw costing the same.

I admit I splurged with the BenchDog cast iron router table insert at about 300$ (Amazon.com) but it slides in between the rails of the above table saw. I removed the right extension, installed the BenchDog and then reinstalled the wing to the right of that. Purchased the HomeDepot Ridgid 2HP combo kit router for 200$ and the BenchDog insert from Rockler.com iirc. Add in a set or individual router bits as needed and now your set to cut your plywood and solid fronts as well as cut and shape door components.

It's a great space saving setup that cost me about 1000$ to setup. I spent 30$ extra for a dial indicator and a digital angle finder from Harbor Freight to make a few very minor adjustments and the saw now cuts an 8' length of 2.5" oak with a dime on edge without falling over. This is on a regular 120v circuit also thought do plan running a dedicated 240v circuit down the road.

You don't have to spend a lot of money to get setup with decent and reliable tools. I saw no point in spending 2k of more on a cabinet saw as a homeowner DIYer but still wanted a heavy, solid saw with a router table and this setup works great. I figure with the added 50lb BenchDog, router and drawer being added below the whole thing comes in around 430-450lbs yet still moves easily when I drop the wheels.

My father was a professional finish carpenter and as a kid I grew up in a wood shop. It's nice after 25 years doing my own thing to start playing with my own tools and making sawdust again. Our existing kitchen is a 'nice' HD kitchen but very light and neither the wife or I liked it when we bought the house. I'm slowly gearing up to redo the kitchen thinking I might remove the doors and face frames, resurface with cabinet ends with a Mahogany veneer and build new fronts, doors and drawers myself. This allows us to maintain a kitchen rather then tearing it all out.

I will be doing cabinets, doors and drawers for my own shop beforehand, some book shelves, customs closets, etc before I tackle the kitchen. I'd rather relearn and screwup the lesser, smaller things then a kitchen lol. :laughing:

Good luck


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Adrenolin said:


> I bought the HomeDepot Ridgid R4512 table saw and used a harbor freight 20% coupon. It's the same as the Craftsman but less cost.
> 
> Good luck


Just a point of clarification.....there are some small differences between the two, motor size being the biggest of them.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Just a point of clarification.....there are some small differences between the two, motor size being the biggest of them.


That's correct however it's not that big a difference and for the 400$ price tag of the Ridgid its an awesome deal for the home DIYer. Ridgid says 13amp and CM says 15 which really could be a typo or exaggeration on either end. Also the CM reads an extra 1.5HP iirc. Regardless of those specs either saw is still more than most any home DIYer would need. Ridgid's LSA lifetime warranty rocks, just make sure you register the product within 90 days, and I know Sears / Craftsman warranties don't compare.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

> "Our company just moved into a new location that was furnished with IKEA cabinets. They SUCK."


I hate to admit this, but...

Discarded IKEA furniture is where I sometimes get my stock from.

The other day I saw someone who had put out an ikea pine coffee table on the sidewalk with a sign saying free on it.

I managed to drive by it for two days without stopping, but on the third day I realized that resistance was futile.

I picked it up and took it to the "shop" and it immediately became clear why they were throwing it out. The top was warping slightly and they had tried to screw it back down into place. (Probably would have been better if they had actually used WOOD screws.) 

The screw-in pegs that are used with the ikea knowck-down bolts had come stripped out of the pine, so the sides were falling apart. There was one corner where it looks like they had tried THREE TIMES to fix it. Still wouldn't stay together.

There are some pieces that are salvageable, and since I happen to like knotty pine, I will probably be able to make SOMETHING out of it.

so if you are ever in need of some puke-yellow pine, just cruise the back alleys of any college town with an ikea store.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Adrenolin said:


> That's correct however it's not that big a difference and for the 400$ price tag of the Ridgid its an awesome deal for the home DIYer. Ridgid says 13amp and CM says 15 which really could be a typo or exaggeration on either end. Also the CM reads an extra 1.5HP iirc. Regardless of those specs either saw is still more than most any home DIYer would need. Ridgid's LSA lifetime warranty rocks, just make sure you register the product within 90 days, and I know Sears / Craftsman warranties don't compare.



1.75hp vs 1.5 can be a big difference if your ripping hard maple....or something else similarly dense. On top of the larger motor (it is a larger motor, i've verified a few months ago), it also has an arbor lock, which i'd pay good money for on my current saw, it has a longer cord.....who wouldn't want that......and lastly, it does have a better blade, not probably worth a lot....but a few bucks maybe. 

All in all...if home depot won't take the coupon.....the 529 every day price at home depot is pretty close to the 549 sale price at sears......for alot of people the differences would be well worth 20 bucks.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Ok, I'm going back to 'minimum cost', a picture of what you have in mind would help


Circular saw
Router
Drill

They are the only power tools I would consider essential, yes you could do it without these as well but a real basic set up and you could do it with these alone. I built a candy bar for Hoyt's Cinema back in 93? with just these tools and hand tools.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

you really want to go to minimum....a hand saw, a plane, a brace and bits, and a screwdriver could get it done.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

river251 said:


> Bret, thanks for the great pictures. What are the dimensions on that whole saw and table top? I'm guessing 10x10?
> 
> Andy, thanks. Some of that is a bit too country for me but other ideas are great, and may get incorporated into my plan, if I do go the building route. Still to be determined.
> 
> ...


It's about 7 feet square

Bret


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Well I have been able to get into the house and spend time in the kitchen. I'm going to take some pics today and will post them. 

I have to the left of the kitchen sink, 5 feet of bottom cabinets. To the right is the dishwasher and fridge so no cabinets. There are about 7 feet of upper cabinets. There are 5 feet of bottoms stickout out from the left end (an "L"). On the other side, to the sides of the stove, there are 2.5 feet of upper and lower on each side. I will make a copper vent to the roof over the stove so no cabinets there. 

That makes 12 feet of upper, and 15 feet of lower. That is less than the 21 feet of lower and 21 feet of upper I told them at Home Depot. Since Home Depot is about 150/linear foot of cabinet depending on wood, complete new cabinets would cost 27 * 150 = $4050.

The existing cabinets have very solid boxes installed. The cabinets on one side of the kitchen are a different cabinet than on the other side but both are solid. For the "L" part I will keep the bottom and lose the tops to have a more open dining/kitchen feel. The cabinets are painted (best I can tell) pink exterior latex inside and out. 

My next move is to get the Home Depot refacer guys to give me an estimate on redoing the boxes, with and without doing new doors. 

Austin Hardwoods cited $4.00 sq/ft for maple, oak, several other hardwoods, solid 1". So one cabinet door 1.5 * 2.5 comes to around $15. So I estimate doors for bottom cabinets would be about $100. Door for uppers about $80. Drawer fronts say another $100. Double that for my mistakes, and $560 covers wood for new doors and drawer covers. 


Say $1000 for Adrenolin's setup. Add an unknown amount for other setups, but then Woodnthings didn't use that many tools for his. 

I think if I keep the cabinet boxes in there, and have them refaced (let's guess $1000), and make my own doors ($580), I'm out about $2500 and end up with the table saw setup $1000). 

Sounds better than buying the cabinets from Home Depot. And all I am doing is cutting rectangular slabs for doors, sanding and finishing them and hanging them. The cabinets will have a unique and nice look. I may even spring for some of the exotic hardwoods Austin Hardwoods carries, at double the wood cost, so add $500, if the refacers have a matching or compatible color. 

I want something as light as possible, I'm adding two skylights to the ceiling when I get the roof done. I like a bright as possible kitchen. 

Sound ok?


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

DaveTTC said:


> Ok, I'm going back to 'minimum cost', a picture of what you have in mind would help
> 
> 
> Circular saw
> ...



Thanks. I've built stuff with circular saw but didn't have a good layout for working so things didn't come out precise, but I didn't need it for that. 

I think I'll have more of a prayer of OK looking cabinets if I use a table saw...


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Trying to cut solid planks for cabinet doors is mistake. Guaranteed to cup/warp before too long.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

sawdustfactory said:


> Trying to cut solid planks for cabinet doors is mistake. Guaranteed to cup/warp before too long.


Agreed.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

river251 said:


> Thanks. I've built stuff with circular saw but didn't have a good layout for working so things didn't come out precise, but I didn't need it for that.
> 
> I think I'll have more of a prayer of OK looking cabinets if I use a table saw...


If I get a chance I'll do a video demo of how quick easy and accurate just a circular saw and straight edge set up can be.

Depending on size of your table saw and skills using one you can have more problems with a table saw than without. This can get better or worse if you have some one to 'tail out' depending on their skill in doing so. I have had 'tradesman' who have no idea and people who have never done it before and they do perfect job


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Thanks guys. What is the right approach, if I want to end up with slab doors? Glue several 6" wide strips together? The run them through a table saw? Then sand flat?

I wonder how Home Depot makes their slab doors? They say solid wood.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

DaveTTC said:


> If I get a chance I'll do a video demo of how quick easy and accurate just a circular saw and straight edge set up can be.
> 
> Depending on size of your table saw and skills using one you can have more problems with a table saw than without. This can get better or worse if you have some one to 'tail out' depending on their skill in doing so. I have had 'tradesman' who have no idea and people who have never done it before and they do perfect job



That would be cool indeed.


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## SebringDon (Jan 2, 2013)

Don't kid yourself if you think you've only got a few other things besides kitchen cabinets that you'll want to build. I've only been woodworking since last fall, and I walked through the house the other day and counted over two dozen completed projects, including additional shelves in my cabinets, three double sets of sliding pan drawers, two coat racks, a big TV console and a simple little stand for the cable box and DVD player in the bedroom, a 6 foot long blanket chest, a bracket to mount a basket on the wall and a little stand for another piece of art, a couple of simple rolling carts on the back deck, a set of dog steps by the bed... the list goes on and on. I'm currently working on a plant stand for the back deck, the lids of the blanket chest, and just starting on a sofa table. Plus I've got three or four little projects I'm working on to make the shop more efficient.

The list of future projects is just as long, if not longer.

When you start working wood, your house starts talking to you.


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## dvalery20 (Jan 27, 2011)

river251 said:


> I just bought a foreclosed house that will need the kitchen and bathrooms rebuilt, especially the kitchen cabinets.
> 
> I will build a 20x30 workshop in the back yard on a concrete foundation over the next year. It will serve many purposes.
> 
> ...


It's not so much large tools but all the little ones that add up, it really depends on what your needs are. 
You are going to want a table saw, circular saw or track saw if you can afford it Festool makes IMO the best (makes life super easy).
some router bits, preferably a router table with fence, probablywant a stacked dado set unless you plan on dadoing with a router, *definitely* a planer to process lumber with and you will probably want a spray system, the Earlex 5500 works well with lacquers.

You are probably looking to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k-6k in the bare necessities to get the job done.
other little tools would be:

35mm forstner drill bit for euro hinges.
shelf pin bit
a good saw blade, not a cheapo from the box stores.
square
level
probably could use a Kreg jig if you want to choose that route.
the list goes on and on.

hope this helps.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

SebringDon said:


> Don't kid yourself if you think you've only got a few other things besides kitchen cabinets that you'll want to build. I've only been woodworking since last fall, and I walked through the house the other day and counted over two dozen completed projects, including additional shelves in my cabinets, three double sets of sliding pan drawers, two coat racks, a big TV console and a simple little stand for the cable box and DVD player in the bedroom, a 6 foot long blanket chest, a bracket to mount a basket on the wall and a little stand for another piece of art, a couple of simple rolling carts on the back deck, a set of dog steps by the bed... the list goes on and on. I'm currently working on a plant stand for the back deck, the lids of the blanket chest, and just starting on a sofa table. Plus I've got three or four little projects I'm working on to make the shop more efficient.
> 
> The list of future projects is just as long, if not longer.
> 
> When you start working wood, your house starts talking to you.



I know you're so right. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of work my house is going to take I think I'm trying to minimize my work outlook as much as possible...

If only woodworking was as good for me as riding my bike...


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

dvalery20 said:


> It's not so much large tools but all the little ones that add up, it really depends on what your needs are.
> You are going to want a table saw, circular saw or track saw if you can afford it Festool makes IMO the best (makes life super easy).
> some router bits, preferably a router table with fence, probablywant a stacked dado set unless you plan on dadoing with a router, *definitely* a planer to process lumber with and you will probably want a spray system, the Earlex 5500 works well with lacquers.
> 
> ...



Oh boy, another "I can't afford it" perspective... I just think I can minimize what I need, for the relatively simple project this is turning into, I hope at least...


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

Ok, I admit I have NEVER built a cabinet in my life, but...



> "You are probably looking to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k-6k in the bare necessities to get the job done."


Are you REALLY saying that you need to drop 5 grand into equipment to produce quality cabinets in your own home???


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## dvalery20 (Jan 27, 2011)

river251 said:


> Oh boy, another "I can't afford it" perspective... I just think I can minimize what I need, for the relatively simple project this is turning into, I hope at least...


I never said you can't afford it, nor do I care if you can or can't afford it, if you can do it for cheaper then good for you, I'm just trying to give you some input for your project, not insult you in any way shape or form.


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## dvalery20 (Jan 27, 2011)

Grunkle Stan said:


> Ok, I admit I have NEVER built a cabinet in my life, but...
> 
> Are you REALLY saying that you need to drop 5 grand into equipment to produce quality cabinets in your own home???


Yes.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Buying new vs used*

If you went to Home Depot, and got:

Rigid R4512 10" table saw,
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-13-Amp-10-in-Professional-Table-Saw-R4512/202500206#.UcV7A9iwViB

a sliding miter,
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100618...ct-1-_-202500206-_-100618247-_-N#.UcV67tiwViA

a Rigid drill and driver set:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...Combo-Kit-2-Tool-R9600/203266851#.UcV9qNiwViA



A worm drive "skill" saw:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...ve-Circular-Saw-R32102/100078833#.UcV7e9iwViA


A Rigid random orbit sander:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-5-in-Random-Orbit-Sander-R26011/100053683#.UcV-JtiwViA


Husky air compressor:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-20-Gal-Portable-Air-Compressor-F2S20VWD/203187354#.UcV-YtiwViA

Husky gravity feed spray gun:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Gravity-Feed-HVLP-Spray-Gun-H4840GHVSG/203497519#.UcV-1NiwViA

Stanley 48" level:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-48-in-ProLevel-I-Beam-Level-43-048/203896609#.UcV_K9iwViA


Dewalt router combo:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-2...ith-Soft-Start-DW618PK/203164065#.UcWAzdiwViB

Bench Dog router table:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202738...ct-2-_-202716981-_-202738582-_-N#.UcWBZ9iwViA


Some basic hand tools, hammers, drill bits, chisels, squares, etc...


3/4" plywood and 2 X 4's to build an outfeed table ....


AND use a 20 % off Harbor Freight discount coupon for all of the above, using a prior arrangement with the store manager, you can have a complete new shop for around $3,000.00. I did not add up each price separately so that's just a ball park number. Those are all good tools, middle line quality and will serve you well for a long time. 

You could also add in a 14" bandsaw:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...269178?keyword=Rigid+14"+bandsaw#.UcWD9diwViA

You can do the same with used tools and come in around $1000.00 by shopping wisely. A Radial Arm Saw would be a cheaper addition or replacement for a sliding miter saw. 


I did NOT list a jointer or planer because you can buy 4 side surfaced wood in poplar for painting, or oak, for staining and not need them. If you were to add them it would be roughly another $1000.00 .... discounted 20%.

Buying used tools makes you get involved in the maintainence or repair which would not be needed with new tools initially. The Rigid Life Time Warranty is a big plus. :yes:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

We could go on all day and night listing tools and their cost. The truth of the matter is that once you start, you'll find something else you need to buy. So far we can't talk you into or out of doing it yourself. Only you know what skills you have, or how mechanically inclined you are.


















.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the original post was...*

Minimum cost of shop tools to make my own cabinets?

I suggested a moderate, but not minimum, line of tools I would need if purchased new, to make my own cabinets .... and their cost. I believe I answered his original question with a slight improvement in quality. From that information he can make his own his decision on whether or not to make them himself or buy them. :yes:


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## RJweb (Feb 25, 2011)

Everyone gave good responds to his questions, only the op knows what is the right direction to go. But if it were me I would just buy in stock cabinets and then in future when I had the equipment and knowledge would redo the cabinets, just my 2 cents or is it a nickel now a days


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

dvalery20 said:


> I never said you can't afford it, nor do I care if you can or can't afford it, if you can do it for cheaper then good for you, I'm just trying to give you some input for your project, not insult you in any way shape or form.



Sorry, that came out totally wrong, and sounded like I was implying something I did not mean to....sorry. 

I was bemoaning the expense involved here, not denigrating your perspective. It seems in line with others and is a bit depressing to me. But I hope you'll forgive me for letting my exasperation reflect on your contribution which is very helpful, however much it may be what I don't want to hear.

Again, sorry, and thanks for going into what I should expect to need. It's quite helpful.

Many thanks,
Jim


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Thanks Woodnthings for the excellent list and your time putting it together. I was at HD today, looking at the 4512 table saw. They didn't have one out of the box unfortunately.

Friday I gave the seller my earnest money, and the contract is now signed by both parties. Inspection then appraisal next. 

The kitchen cabinets may take priority after fixing a couple other things, but it's good that I can give a lot of thought, with the help I'm getting here, to what to get. It's true, I do keep thinking of other stuff I would like to make that would enhance the home. So the more I think about it the more I'd like to have a wood shop permanently. 

I don't get how you guys are using Harbor Freight 20% coupons at Home Depot though, do they price match?


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

RJweb said:


> Everyone gave good responds to his questions, only the op knows what is the right direction to go. But if it were me I would just buy in stock cabinets and then in future when I had the equipment and knowledge would redo the cabinets, just my 2 cents or is it a nickel now a days



Ha, actually I don't know the right direction to go. Unfortunately, I'm an academic in the liberal arts, not an engineer or business prof, and at New Mexico State University we make 1/3 less than the national average...so that means I don't make much moolah. 

The consequence of that is any unknowns involving money throw everything into question. I may come out of this house purchase with cash left over, but it's more likely it will be next year before I build my workshop and start populating it. 

Boy, oh boy, do I wish I DID know what's going to happen over the next year. 

I greatly appreciate everyone's help. I sure have info now that will let me make decisions.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Could I raise the question again....it was pointed out I should not cut slab doors from solid wood. Actually I mispoke a bit, the woods from Austin Hardwoods come in 6" wide 1" thick pieces a few feet long. So I should not have said I would cut the slab doors out of solid wood like that. I would first have to glue several of these together to form a sheet of solid wood wide enough for a cabinet door. And that looks to be the way the solid wood slab cabinet doors at Home Depot are made.

So given this correction, will the solid, slab doors made from glued together pieces warp over time, as was pointed out would happen with solid doors from a single piece of wood?


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Just want to say thanks to everyone for your help.

I found out today the home was built in 1967, not the late 70s as I thought.

Today I grabbed the existing cabinet frames and tried to move them. I couldn't, they are extremely solid. I am hoping that they can be refaced or rejuvenated nicely enough, that I can make doors for them. Or, I may be able to for now buy the solid doors from Home Depot. They are not as attractive as I would like though. 

Does anybody know how to strip latex paint off of the cabinets?

Thanks.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Woodnthings, actually I already have the miter saw, drill and impact drivers, circular saw (not a worm drive but has served well), random orbital sander, really good metal craftsman level, HVL gun, an Emglo twin tank compressor, though not as big as the Husky. Course that's the cheaper stuff :smile:


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

river251 said:


> I don't get how you guys are using Harbor Freight 20% coupons at Home Depot though, do they price match?



Some (but not all) Home Depot locations accept competitor's coupons. It seems to depend partly on whether there's a Harbor Freight nearby, and partly on the manager on duty.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

amckenzie4 said:


> Some (but not all) Home Depot locations accept competitor's coupons. It seems to depend partly on whether there's a Harbor Freight nearby, and partly on the manager on duty.



Thanks much. We have a HF and I know the HD people really well. I seem to live there.


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## dvalery20 (Jan 27, 2011)

river251 said:


> Could I raise the question again....it was pointed out I should not cut slab doors from solid wood. Actually I mispoke a bit, the woods from Austin Hardwoods come in 6" wide 1" thick pieces a few feet long. So I should not have said I would cut the slab doors out of solid wood like that. I would first have to glue several of these together to form a sheet of solid wood wide enough for a cabinet door. And that looks to be the way the solid wood slab cabinet doors at Home Depot are made.
> 
> So given this correction, will the solid, slab doors made from glued together pieces warp over time, as was pointed out would happen with solid doors from a single piece of wood?


If you don't alternate the end grain cup direction it will be susceptible to warping, just make sure that on your glue up you look at the end grain, end grain normally sports a "C" shape pattern, your goal will be to take your multiple boards, lay them out, and make a wave pattern. For example, I have 4 boards, my goal would be to have my first boards end grain face down, the second face up, third face down and fourth face back up. By doing that the boards shouldn't warp, another thing you need to make sure of is when you apply finish, to do it equally on the front as you do on the back of each piece, at least that's what I've always done and have been told to do.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

Thanks very much dvalery20, much appreciated.

Jim


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## dvalery20 (Jan 27, 2011)

river251 said:


> Thanks very much dvalery20, much appreciated.
> 
> Jim


No problem man, anytime.


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## madge45 (Jun 25, 2013)

*My 2 cents*

For what you would spend on lumber and tools you could buy a nice set of cabinets, unless you are going into the cabinet business, you should check out the pawn shops and acquire nice tools over time.
Don't cheap out on tools, especially anything with a cutting surface, blades, teeth etc. better chance of maiming yourself with dull or junk tools.


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## river251 (Dec 11, 2011)

I am back to ask a different question, but I thought I'd conclude this thread first. 

I ended up not getting the property. I have a lot to learn about real estate. The bank had suggested they'd sell me the home for 90K, and pay 20K of repairs. I was led along for two months, then they flatly said they would only pay 10K of repairs. Leaving me to add 10K to my down payment of 20%, plus another 10-15K or repairs that were also needed. Had to walk away. I'm now having a small house built on a lot, hopefully. My big lesson about real estate is that it is not over until it is completely over. Count on nothing. 

Thanks for the tremendous education I got here.

Jim


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