# Turning Bow Saw Build



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Started working on a new hand tool today... A Turning Saw.

This is a mock up for a nicer one but I'm sure it will be usable all the same. I went with an oak frame, 3/8" blade and aluminum pins to use as much as I could from what I already had on hand and keep the prototype cheap.

Pictures pretty much say it all... Once I get it done I'll try to do an over view of the build but if any questions, fire away!

~tom


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## Jim West Pa (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm seein, besides good craftsmanship, the beginins of a chest full o' hand made hierloom tools that'll be 'round for generations to come.:thumbsup:

That reminds me of the wee one Tom.
I spose since dad is a Fireman we can refer to the wee one as 'squirt' ? :smile:

Mmm... i got one o' them things jist a hangin on the wall in my shop and allways refered to it as a bow saw. Never knew they were called a turnin saw. Learn somethin every day.:yes:
What are ya gonna use fer a tensioner ?


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Nice work Tom. I've seen one of those done by Roy underhill. Yours looks nicer and much cleaner. Oak is a good wood for that. It has good tensile strength. 
Can't wait to see the steps.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Looks really nice . Beautiful Mortices, I've always looked at the one my Dad has on his wall and loved it. Never thought to make my own. Nice idea. What did you use for blade,bandsaw blade?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Thanks, Jim. Not all bow saws are Turning Saws. The difference with a turning saw being that the blade can be turned to cut curved pieces out. It's kind of like an over sized fret/coping saw and the precursor to a band saw.

For a tensioner it will have jute twine and a stick, lol... Going dark ages old school with it :smile:


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

Very cool. Thanks for posting. What depth is the throat and how long is the blade?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

ACP said:


> Very cool. Thanks for posting. What depth is the throat and how long is the blade?


Uhmmmm... I'll get back to you :laughing: I just quick sketched this and didn't worry about scale too much. The main point of it was to build one and see from that what I want to change in ALL aspects :smile:


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

make one for a 24" blade for ripping. a bow saw is lot easier to control i'd think than a big traditional American ripsaw.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodgeekess said:


> make one for a 24" blade for ripping. a bow saw is lot easier to control i'd think than a big traditional American ripsaw.


I have a 54" rip blade rearing to have a frame built once I get past this one :smile:


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## joe bailey (Dec 15, 2011)

Very nice work Tom!
The one thing I might point out (and this will be even more important if you build the Big Ripper) is to layout your arm on the blank so that the grain is running straight through the axis of the upper arm (that part of the arm between the stretcher and the tensioner).
This is where all the old ones fail.
Just my two cents.


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Fire, have you read Tage Frid's article(s) on bow saws? He claims they are the best for everything. After reading that article, I've been wanting to build a bow saw myself but I just haven't gone around to it yet.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Nice work there, Tom. The curved shoulder on the stretchers mortis and tenon looks great. With use, the oils and sweat from your ands will give that oak a nice dark patina. 

Did I see an electric light on your bench?

Figured with all those oldie time tools, there'd be oil lamps. Lol


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## Jim West Pa (Jul 27, 2010)

*" For a tensioner it will have jute twine and a stick, lol..."*

Now that right there i like :yes:
I would o' 'spected nothin less from you.:thumbsup:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Thanks y'all.

I have read some of Frid's stuff but I don't feel quite as strongly about bow saws being the be-all of saws but maybe I'll get hooked?

Brink, :laughing: the FF in me can't allow oil lamps in a 70 yr old pine building with no sheet rock :no:

Joe, I think I've got it pretty straight but I'll be extra careful on the big'un.

Jim, I figured ya would :smile:


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Where did you get the pins, tangs or whatever you call them? How do you secure them into the handles, with epoxy?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodgeekess said:


> Where did you get the pins, tangs or whatever you call them? How do you secure them into the handles, with epoxy?


I hand machined them from aluminum stock. Like I had said it's a mock-up... The next one will have brass pins. The pin is slotted with a hole for pin through the blade. The next one with be tapped for a brass screw.

...build n burn - live n learn...

EDIT: and yes they will be epoxied into the knobs. I cut a few groves in them to help them stay. I considered threading them but decided that would be a problem when turning the blade.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

firemedic said:


> Thanks y'all.
> 
> Brink, :laughing: the FF in me can't allow oil lamps in a 70 yr old pine building with no sheet rock :no:
> :smile:


I'm really hoping the FF isn't the fire-farts returning. Lol!

I didn't say light the oil lamps, just get rid of that 'lectric thing and set a lamp there.

And if you did light it, an old timey carbon tet fire bomb would be in order.


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## joe bailey (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi Tom,
Just to be clear, you *do* have yours straight, but that's not exactly what I'm pointing out. See attachment where line drawn through upper section has straight grain, even at the expense of lower section (below stretcher).
That upper arm should be laid out in this way to resist forces of tensioning mechanism.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

joe bailey said:


> Hi Tom,
> Just to be clear, you do have yours straight, but that's not exactly what I'm pointing out. See attachment where line drawn through upper section has straight grain, even at the expense of lower section (below stretcher).
> That upper arm should be laid out in this way to resist forces of tensioning mechanism.


Gotcha. Thanks!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> And if you did light it, an old timey carbon tet fire bomb would be in order.


Man you ever seen them or seen em used? Pretty cool stuff!

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

firemedic said:


> Man you ever seen them or seen em used? Pretty cool stuff!
> 
> ...build n burn - live n learn...


I do recall those things hanging around in the furnace rooms of old houses.

I was very YOUNG, and these houses were OLD!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> I was very YOUNG, and these houses were OLD!


I guess all things are relative... They weren't invented till you were bout 20 yo :laughing:


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## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

nice Tom, did we talk about this lately? I started one bout a week ago with white oak, 24" draw and 12" depth of cut. But I have broken it twice and threw out my back so it is sitting on the "get back around to it pile".I cheated anyway...used a jig saw to cut it out....lol


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

shame on you lawrence! lol


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

lawrence said:


> nice Tom, did we talk about this lately? I started one bout a week ago with white oak, 24" draw and 12" depth of cut. But I have broken it twice and threw out my back so it is sitting on the "get back around to it pile".I cheated anyway...used a jig saw to cut it out....lol


I would like to see your saw build so you can show us how it failed.
It is every bit as useful to see the failures as it is the see the successes.

That's how we all learn............. from our mistakes.....

Now go get that out of the burn pile.:laughing:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

lawrence said:


> nice Tom, did we talk about this lately? I started one bout a week ago with white oak, 24" draw and 12" depth of cut. But I have broken it twice and threw out my back so it is sitting on the "get back around to it pile".I cheated anyway...used a jig saw to cut it out....lol


No, we hadn't talked about it I don't think. Great minds I guess. What materials did you go with and what is breaking?

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

white oak.....the knob at the top of one popped of when tightening and then the little "hognose" where the mortise is sheared off....I'll take a few pics in a bit....gotta do my "craigslist goodies" too


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

lawrence said:


> white oak.....the knob at the top of one popped of when tightening and then the little "hognose" where the mortise is sheared off....I'll take a few pics in a bit....gotta do my "craigslist goodies" too


 ok


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Well, still not finished but it works quite well! I'm surprised to see that it is easier to control cutting on the push stroke that may be a familiarity thing for me though.

I'm going to make a nice toggle that will pop into a shallow mortice on the stretcher. That will be Mahogany like the knobs.

One of my pin holes isn't straight, you can see that the knob looks slanted down. I didn't bore my pin holes prior to shaping because I see that as backwards on a mock-up. I'll be able to do that on the next though.

Also you'll notice I lightened up the stretcher a good bit.

I think it's a successful mock-up.

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Looks good! Maybe try with a bit longer blade though? Blade looks a little short. I think it is supposed to be wider at the bottoM!


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## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

That looks really nice!

What kind of blade did you use?

I agree that most of the ones I've seen are a little bit wider at the bottom. That also solves the problem with the pin holes.

Are you sure you didn't lighten the stretcher too much? Ther will be a considerable pressure on that when you put some tension on it.

Well, I guess that's what a mockup is meant for. Tighten the string as much as you can and see if it holds up :yes:


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

firemedic said:


> I guess all things are relative... They weren't invented till you were bout 20 yo :laughing:


No skippy, wrong again. I was twelve when I first saw those. That blows away your 20 yo theory.

I remember it well, Dad, among all his talents was a master furnace fighter. He kept me out of school that day, said my fourth grade teacher needed a break. We go to this OLD house. The coal furnace had been converted to an oil burner, and was always problematic. Hanging around this monster were these interesting glass bulbs. I'd keep trying to get close enough to figure out the writing on it. Dad kept telling me, "boy, stand back, you're sucking the air out of the firebox and making it hard to adjust."


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

That's hideous. I'll save your ego though. Send it my way and I'll pay you $20.00 for it. 



)


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## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

ACP said:


> That's hideous. I'll save your ego though. Send it my way and I'll pay you $20.00 for it.
> 
> 
> 
> )


Hey, Tom is a good lad, and I find that offensive!!!!
$21 !!! lmao


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## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

firemedic said:


> I think it's a successful mock-up.
> 
> ...build n burn - live n learn...


looks better the 3 I've picked up this year, and they were finish product.
and btw, way the hell better than mine lol.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

:laughing: let me get some pecan dried right and some brass stock and refine the design a bit then I'll make a few extra for those interested. There's one person in the slot to trade on one already for some moulding planes... I like that deal and would certainly be willing to trade on others too.

I can't wait to try a new 1/2" 3 tpi hook blade with raker set. Ideally I want to find 1" blades stock for ripping saws though. If anyone knows a source for them I'd appreciate it! Also, I'm thinking the larger rip saws will not have a turning blade with it mounted sideways in the frame... Thoughts?


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

I want one! How much?  Actually I think I might want one that accomadates the 24" will putsch blades from highland woodworking. Thinking about getting that continental bow saw for like $42 and tweaking it to make it right so the handles don't twist inadvertantly.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Went by my old mentor's shop today and took some pictures of this old saw. He's not sure of the origin of it as it was passed down to him. Anyone's guess as he's a 4 generation furniture builder... Each generation had one so the all the tools from the previous went to the next in line. Too bad the line stopped with him and he's 85  He's obliged to leave his tools to his three boys but what will happen to them after is anyone's guess. 

It's got rip teeth one it, which makes 0 sense to me being the blade can't turn. So rips would have to be in really short stock. The other possibility is it's a replacement blade or that the teeth were improperly sharpened. The later is my best guess being it's about 8 tpi which is kind of high for a rip saw of that size.

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

Interesting, that looks a lot like this bow saw that's on Shopgoodwill.com right now:

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=9681170


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

woodgeekess said:


> Interesting, that looks a lot like this bow saw that's on Shopgoodwill.com right now:
> 
> http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=9681170


It does, doesn't it. You buying that?

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## Jim West Pa (Jul 27, 2010)

firemedic said:


> Well, still not finished but it works quite well! I'm surprised to see that it is easier to control cutting on the push stroke that may be a familiarity thing for me though.
> 
> I'm going to make a nice toggle that will pop into a shallow mortice on the stretcher. That will be Mahogany like the knobs.
> 
> ...


Now that's a piece o' art right there Tom :thumbsup:
I can't wait to see the final product.:yes:


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## woodgeekess (Mar 16, 2012)

firemedic said:


> It does, doesn't it. You buying that?
> 
> ...build n burn - live n learn...


No, I haven't bid on it.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Did a lil more R&D yesterday. Tried a 24" 1/2" 4 tpi skip blade (the previous was 21" 12 tpi 3/8") and discovered something I should have figured before hand. Flex back blades in that larger size are all but useless for a bow saw! 

The blade had so much flop to it that it was very difficult to control. I had a go at a 4" wide piece of poplar and got frustrated after spending 10 min ripping only 2.5" down with nothing even close to straight. Picked up a D-8 and ripped 5" along side of it no time just to make sure I wasn't crazy.

So that brings me to TRYING to have a tech rep from Simonds Int to call me back about hard back wood ripping blade stock... 

Stay tuned!

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Just got off the phone with Olaa in the manufacturing dept at Simonds Int. Nice guy. 

Anyway, they are sending me a sample box of hard back blade stock to try out all 1 1/2" to 2" wide and 4-8 pitch some variables pitch as well... Once again, stay tuned!


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Can you explain the flop around part a little more?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> Can you explain the flop around part a little more?


My best explanation of what's going on is the front of the blade is hardened and the back is untempored. My understanding is that most bandsaw stock is made soft back so that it holds up to the abuse of the small turning radius of smaller band saws. 

What's happening is the hard front of the blade holds tension while the back of the blade is not under enough tension - relatively speaking. The the back of the blade flops around... With a hard back blade the front and back will both be tempored the same so that this doesn't happen... Hopefully!


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## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

this could be a valuable little piece of info......glued to it


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

firemedic said:


> My best explanation of what's going on is the front of the blade is hardened and the back is untempored. My understanding is that most bandsaw stock is made soft back so that it holds up to the abuse of the small turning radius of smaller band saws.
> 
> What's happening is the hard front of the blade holds tension while the back of the blade is not under enough tension - relatively speaking. The the back of the blade flops around... With a hard back blade the front and back will both be tempored the same so that this doesn't happen... Hopefully!


Did you try turning the blade end for end, and cut on the pull stroke?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> Did you try turning the blade end for end, and cut on the pull stroke?


Yes... Sure did! Slight improvement but almost unremarkable...


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Just watched an episode of the Woodwrights Shop where he had a guest making one of these. Makes me want to attempt one ;-)


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

sawdustfactory said:


> Just watched an episode of the Woodwrights Shop where he had a guest making one of these. Makes me want to attempt one ;-)


Yup, that's a good one. "as the saw turns". http://video.pbs.org/video/2172468731/


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

I think Tom should be a guest on Roy's show.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

sawdustfactory said:


> Just watched an episode of the Woodwrights Shop where he had a guest making one of these. Makes me want to attempt one ;-)





Brink said:


> Yup, that's a good one. "as the saw turns". http://video.pbs.org/video/2172468731/


Yeah, it is a good episode!




Brink said:


> I think Tom should be a guest on Roy's show.


HAAA!!! Yeah, ok...


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

firemedic said:


> Yeah, it is a good episode!
> ...


I had to watch it this morning to find out the widget on top of the toggle is called a whirl. Maybe spelled wurl.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> I had to watch it this morning to find out the widget on top of the toggle is called a whirl. Maybe spelled wurl.


Ahh! That's what you txt me the other day... I forgot to go back to it later... 

THANKS!


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Kinda young for senility?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> Kinda young for senility?


Never too young to lose your mind 

...build n burn - live n learn...


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## Jim West Pa (Jul 27, 2010)

How's that saw comin along Tom ?


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

. .


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

:smile: waiting for that band stock to come in... 

In the mean time I'm trying to catch up on jobs that I've been neglecting due to all these random personal projects... Still have three saws to finish for the 'other' thread :laughing:


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