# Hand Planes



## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

I have two questions regarding planes - 

First - how does the thickness of the iron affect things? I have picked up a couple lower quality planes and / or used planes from ebay and the irons are all pretty thin compared to some of the irons I've seen on some newer planes. In particular the blade on the LN low angle jack plane is a monster.

Second - why does the grain of the tote always seem to run perpindicular to the tote screw (parallel to the sole)? I've seen a lot of planes that have a break in the tote and it is always along the grain.


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## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

On the first question, I'm not sure if the thickness of the blade play's a role geometrically, but the thicker ones sure perform better. LV and LN bench planes all either 01 or A2 steel, which are harder than the blades in new Stanley's. Their hardness definitely affects the durability and consequently performance. 

The trade-off is that it takes longer to sharpen but most ww'ers seem willing to make that trade-off. Personally, I like 01 a little better than A2 because it's a bit easier to sharpen (softer) even though A2 stays sharper a little longer. I might feel differently if I had some of the more modern water or ceramic stones.

Even after adjusting for steel quality, it seems the heftier blades perform better. Perhaps, simply because there's more steel and more weight, stays in place better and not as prone to flex. I'm not sure about this but it seems like it. I have a #7 Clifton and a #8 Stanley bedrock. Both has thicker blades than the newer Stanley's, and both perform much better. The older Stanley's were thicker than today and the Clifton is more like the LN and LV blades except a little softer. The thicker blades stay sharper long than the thinner even after taking into account steel quality. 

Bottom line is that if I bought a new Stanley to day (excluding their new Sweetheart series, which I'm not sure about), I would buy a replacement blade from LV, Hock, LN, or Clifton. However, I would keep my original as a back up. 

Just like in women, I don't like the thinnest out there, but I wouldn't throw her out because she of it. She'd do fine in an emergency. So for performance, I like things a little thicker, but not necessarily the hardest.

I can't answer your second question, but I've found a problem with broken totes and it does seem to be a grain problem. I'm not sure why the grain isn't oriented differently, more like the normal handsaw orientation.


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## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

I did some reading over lunch and found the following:



> http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/hand-tools/grain-direction-tote
> 
> Hi Chris
> You can run the grain either way with a tote .... however there is a trade-off - always a trade off!
> ...


I wonder if there is a mid-ground between the two? Or possibly a solution using resins or plastics? I know Miller Falls made some planes with a translucent handle for a while.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

There are plastic totes available, very durable. On the other hand, a sharp, well tuned plane shouldn't break. They should push through faily easily.

Thicker blades = less flexing. Thin blades and light chip breakers will cause lots of chatter. I put the heavy Hock blades and breakers on my planes, it makes a world of difference.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> There are plastic totes available, very durable. On the other hand, a sharp, well tuned plane shouldn't break. They should push through faily easily.
> 
> Thicker blades = less flexing. Thin blades and light chip breakers will cause lots of chatter. I put the heavy Hock blades and breakers on my planes, it makes a world of difference.


+1 thicker irons = less chatter = cleaner & smoother cuts.

As for thinner woman! Lol I'm glad my wife doesn't read this forum, haha...

At 4 months preg she weighs 110 soaking wet! 

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

firemedic said:


> +1 thicker irons = less chatter = cleaner & smoother cuts.
> 
> As for thinner woman! Lol I'm glad my wife doesn't read this forum, haha...
> 
> ...


 
110? Hope she's not 5'-10" like mine :icon_smile:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brink said:


> 110? Hope she's not 5'-10" like mine :icon_smile:


Yeah... Bout 5'7"! Lol

...maybe I exaggerated a tiny bit? Lol 115! Lol

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Brian Kent (Jul 16, 2011)

The grain orientation of the handle is perpendicular to the screw that runs through it. The handles crack after decades of use and humidity changes. At least the screw keeps the parts next to each other until you are ready to glue them back together.


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## glh17 (Jul 7, 2010)

firemedic said:


> +1 thicker irons = less chatter = cleaner & smoother cuts.
> 
> As for thinner woman! Lol I'm glad my wife doesn't read this forum, haha...
> 
> ...


Chatter was the word I couldn't think of at all in my response. I knew flexing wasn't exactly the word that I was thinking of, but I was having one of my early senior moments. They seem to be occurring more frequently these days.


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## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

Brink said:


> Thicker blades = less flexing. Thin blades and light chip breakers will cause lots of chatter. I put the heavy Hock blades and breakers on my planes, it makes a world of difference.


is that worth doing even on a low quality plane like a Buck Bros? I've got the two i have reasonably tuned but there is only so much I can do... I'm slowly buying better planes but there is only so much money to go around :thumbdown:


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## Brian Kent (Jul 16, 2011)

I would not put any money into a Buck Brothers plane. The stamped steel body itself is such a weak point that it isn't worth it. It is far better to get an old Stanley and put a new blade in it.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Brian Kent said:


> I would not put any money into a Buck Brothers plane. The stamped steel body itself is such a weak point that it isn't worth it. It is far better to get an old Stanley and put a new blade in it.


+1... or clean up the original blade... Still ahead of the curve!

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Visions (Jun 16, 2011)

Buck Bros. planes are not worth the metal they are made of in my opinion and are not worth putting any money into. Scour Ebay and you're sure to find tons of far better specimens to sink a few bucks into.

Myself, I like Millers Falls more than most, other than an old Bed Rock, when it comes to old stuff. I have several different brands, Dunlap, MF, Stanley, LN, Veritas, and my new found favorites, the wooden ECE Primus planes, and all perform quite well when tuned properly. 

Even with a factory blade and cap iron, a well tuned plane with a properly set cap iron and throat will cut like a dream.

The thicker blades and breakers do make a difference, but in no way make up for improper tuning and set-up.

The most important things I find in a plane are a dead flat sole, good frog to body contact, good blade to breaker fit, a well flattened and honed blade, proper tuning and adjustment, as well as smooth and positive adjustments for cut depth and blade skew. 
You cannot add a thick blade and breaker to a plane that doesn't have these features and get good results, just doesn't happen. 
BUT, when you add a good blade/breaker combo to a well tuned plane, you really have something special!

As for the low angle LN's, they need the super thick irons as they don't have a chip breaker and rely solely on the iron for rigidity.
A bevel down plane doesn't need a blade this thick and couldn't use one anyway as the blade adjuster wouldn't reach the breaker.

My suggestion: tune your plane as well as you possibly can with the standard iron and breaker, and when it can't get any better, upgrade to a thicker blade/breaker combo. Then you will really feel and appreciate the difference, as well as understand it more. And most importantly, you will see the maximum benefit possible from the better blade/breaker, as your plane will already be very well tuned.

Wayne


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## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

Visions said:


> Buck Bros. planes are not worth the metal they are made of in my opinion and are not worth putting any money into.
> 
> Myself, I like Millers Falls more than most, other than an old Bed Rock, when it comes to old stuff.


I've come to a similar conclusion on the BB planes. My general feeling is once I get a better bench plane (#5 Stanley in the mail!) is to turn the #5 BB I have into a scrub plane and not worry about it beyond that. The block plane is decent enough, other than being a pain to adjust. I also hopefully have a stack of my grandfathers planes in a box waiting to be picked up - but I'm not sure how things were divvied up. 

Any particular reason you like the Millers planes more than others? I've looked at a few but don't have any. I do like the Buck Rogers series and the 209. They however tend to cost a lot :thumbdown:


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## Visions (Jun 16, 2011)

In my experience, Millers Falls planes, especially the older models, just seem to be very well built and can often be found for very decent prices. As well I find their quality to be better than some of the later Stanley planes, with most I have seen having more precise machining and better fit of the parts. Granted, the Bed Rock's and pre-WW2 Stanley's are well built and machined, but their prices are escalating and the Millers are still a bit cheaper in most cases.

Yes, some (MF planes) are a bit pricey, but they are normally worth the money. 

Granted, I have only seen a small percentage of planes, but from the experiences I've had, my Millers have needed less work then my post-WW2 Stanley's.

The scrub plane idea is a VERY good idea as well. I have an old Stanley two-tone that I did just that with after adding a LN iron. (I already had the iron) Works awesome.


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