# Walnut Stain



## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

I am building a cigar humidor for a client out of birdseye maple. He would like it stained to match his walnut conference table. I bought a can of Minwax dark walnut and tested it on a scrap pie e and it looked terrible. Not even close to the right color. Does anyone have any tips on staining maple to look like walnut? 

Yes, I know you all will ask why not make it out of walnut to begin with? The answer is he wanted figured walnut and the cost was just too high. Stained figured maple was the "budget" solution for him. 

Any idead guys?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Without knowing the color of the conference table it would be hard to tell you what to do. With Minwax stain you can't alter the color. You can only intermix with other Minwax stains. If the converence table is more red than the walnut stain, you might mix some mahogany stain with it. If it is too dark you might use a wood conditioner. It would be helpful anyway to keep the maple from blotching, but I would go easy on it or you will have trouble getting your humidor dark enough. You might also try the provincial color. It has a more brown color.


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## Treeoflifestairs.com (Jan 9, 2012)

My stainer mix and matches varying amounts of different pigments to match existing items. This can take a good eye and experience to get right. Working with maple is another challenge. Because its so dense it doesn't accept much stain. Conditioner is a good start then a coat of stain. If you can't get the color dark enough I've put a coat of sanding sealer on and then more stain. This can be done a couple times The problem with this method is that only the first coat of stain actually penitrates into the wood. The successive coats of stain only sit on top. Good luck.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Ken Johnson said:


> I bought a can of Minwax dark walnut and tested it on a scrap pie e and it looked terrible. Not even close to the right color. Does anyone have any tips on staining maple to look like walnut?



When you say not even close to the right color...can you post pictures of what you're looking for? If you have a picture of the table, and a picture of what your stain did, that would be a good starting place.










 







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## Brian Hinther (Aug 5, 2008)

You might experiment with some dyes like Transtint. They typically don't blotch as badly and can be recoated to make them darker.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Just an observation, make that a rant, from a long time cabinetmaker, not meant to be personal. It's often comical/absurd when someone wants to save a few dollars on lumber but then it takes additional hours to make the cheap stuff look like something it isn't, particularly when it doesn't work. A crafts person needs use their experience and knowledge to keep out of these situations. A customer should never be telling you what to do and you should never be discussing alternatives to save a buck. How much figured walnut can be involved in a humidor? How the heck does birds eye maple resemble figured walnut anyway? You already have time and money invested in the stain and sample, are you working for free? Never let yourself get into this type of situation, think about what you said that got you into it in the first place and don't do that again!

You are the artist, don't forget that. You know how to do the work and you know there is a right way and a wrong way. It costs what it costs. Lumber is usually a very small cost percentage of any job. You may only be a hobbyist looking for some beer money but if you are charging at all, that makes you a pro, so be one. If they don't like the price, move on. Think about it, you have a client with a figured walnut conference table and he's going to fill your box with expensive cigars. The extra cost in wood is probably less than one of those smokes. He's playing you and you are a chump, bet you don't have any expensive cigars on your walnut conference table. 

I've been there, done that. I have better things to do than work my butt off late nights and weekends so some customer can save a dollar at my expense. They'll be eating Chateaubriand while we're grilling tube steaks. Nice guys finish last, if they finish. Just say, NO! I don't work that way. If you want a humidor to match your table, I'll be pleased/honored to make it but it is what it is, take it or leave it. Just be very polite, professional, charming and don't use those words, but remember the sentiment. You are a talented craftsman, you work hard and put out a unique and special product of the highest quality. It's not only the actual work in making the project, it's also the hours you spend studying, researching, practicing and dedicating time to being the best you can be. You don't kiss butt, they kiss yours. They can't do that if you are on your knees. Stand up bro! Minwax?? You have to step up your game.


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## Itchytoe (Dec 17, 2011)

The amount of wood that you're using is minimal. You're not talking about 100 board feet here. More like 5 bf or less. Cost of the wood isn't significant. You're not selling him wood, you're selling him your time and effort and the use of your tools. Let's assume you use a full 5 board feet of wood for this project. Maple costs, 2 bucks per bf, and the figured walnut costs ten times that, 20 bucks per bf. That's a difference of $90. The guy has a freaking walnut conference table and wants his custom humidor to match his table, but doesn't want to spend the extra $90? I'm making $6,000 a week on this job, and I have the tools to build a table so it would only cost me the wood, and I can't afford a freaking walnut conference table.

If I were you, I'd tell him that you can make it out of birds eye maple, and you can stain it any color he chooses, but at best, it will look like stained maple, not walnut. Or, you can build it from walnut and not have to charge him to stain it, which will save him some money and he'll get the walnut he wants. Remember, it is what it is. Stain doesn't fool anyone. Nobody confuses stained maple with walnut.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Most of my customers could care less if I used the same species of wood or not. All they want is for the piece to be close to the same color. I think your project will be a good learning experience and what you will learn from it will be more than worth the time. Furniture companies often use a more expensive wood like walnut for the top and use a secondary wood like poplar or alder for the rest of the table. It's up to the finisher to make them look alike. So if you were to make a replacement leg for that conference table you could use the knowledge of mixing stains to make that leg match the other three and the skirt. This is how I learned to mix stains, replacing parts on antique furniture. This has become useful when I have a customer wanting me to add a section of cabinets to an existing kitchen that someone else built and finished.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't know if you have built this humidor yet or not but birdeye maple finished naturally goes extremely well with walnut. Can you use some solid walnut as your rails and stiles with birdseye panels?


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## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

Hammer1 said:


> Just an observation, make that a rant, from a long time cabinetmaker, not meant to be personal. It's often comical/absurd when someone wants to save a few dollars on lumber but then it takes additional hours to make the cheap stuff look like something it isn't, particularly when it doesn't work. A crafts person needs use their experience and knowledge to keep out of these situations. A customer should never be telling you what to do and you should never be discussing alternatives to save a buck. How much figured walnut can be involved in a humidor? How the heck does birds eye maple resemble figured walnut anyway? You already have time and money invested in the stain and sample, are you working for free? Never let yourself get into this type of situation, think about what you said that got you into it in the first place and don't do that again!
> 
> You are the artist, don't forget that. You know how to do the work and you know there is a right way and a wrong way. It costs what it costs. Lumber is usually a very small cost percentage of any job. You may only be a hobbyist looking for some beer money but if you are charging at all, that makes you a pro, so be one. If they don't like the price, move on. Think about it, you have a client with a figured walnut conference table and he's going to fill your box with expensive cigars. The extra cost in wood is probably less than one of those smokes. He's playing you and you are a chump, bet you don't have any expensive cigars on your walnut conference table.
> 
> I've been there, done that. I have better things to do than work my butt off late nights and weekends so some customer can save a dollar at my expense. They'll be eating Chateaubriand while we're grilling tube steaks. Nice guys finish last, if they finish. Just say, NO! I don't work that way. If you want a humidor to match your table, I'll be pleased/honored to make it but it is what it is, take it or leave it. Just be very polite, professional, charming and don't use those words, but remember the sentiment. You are a talented craftsman, you work hard and put out a unique and special product of the highest quality. It's not only the actual work in making the project, it's also the hours you spend studying, researching, practicing and dedicating time to being the best you can be. You don't kiss butt, they kiss yours. They can't do that if you are on your knees. Stand up bro! Minwax?? You have to step up your game.


Hammer,

Wow, who kicked your puppy? While I appreciate your years of experience this is a friendly forum. Nothing you said in your post was intended to help me with the question I asked. You only intended to puff up your own ego and tell everyone just how awesome you are. My reasons for not using burl walnut are cost and availability. This is a very large humidor and it is very costly and difficult to find pieces large enough. I am not sure how the simple question I asked set you off. 

By the way, I'm not a chump and I do have a large humidor full of #2 Cuban Monte Cristos.


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Ken, I apologize. I thought twice about posting my rant, should have thought again. It was not meant personally but there are times I think the pot needs stirring to get people thinking. It doesn't come off well with the written word on a forum. I've been in the situation countless times where I've had to compromise. Most times the customer was more than satisfied by I wasn't, I know I could have, and should have done better. My intention was to challenge you, instead I offended you.

As cabinetmakers, it's not just our abilities to build but our experiences and resources that we bring to the table. Figured walnut pieces are not often done in solid wood, they are typically veneered. Obviously, this is a different technique than working with solid lumber. The problem for you is trying to make birds eye maple look like walnut burl. The differences are numerous. Colors can be matched or approximated but the character differences in the lumber cannot by common methods. I do know some individuals that can paint wood and you would not easily tell it from walnut burl. This isn't a do this, use that, type of skill. Short of expert faux painting skills, there isn't an easy way to make birds eye look like figured walnut unless you are willing to live with compromise and put in a lot of time. At that point, it probably makes more practical sense to start with the right species and whatever techniques are necessary to do that.

Imitating walnut burl will require a mix of different products and techniques. You will want some artists colors in several brown colors. I would go with oils, raw and burnt sienna, raw and burnt umber, madder brown, Van **** brown. Burl has a cloud like appearance but there can also be some continuous but swirling grain lines. A lot will depend on what colors you are trying to match since the existing walnut burl may be stained. This is only a suggestion and you will have to experiment. You can start by using and overall stain on the maple, probably a lighter, more yellow brown color as a base to work from.

If you have watched artists, they often place the colors on a pallet. They will pick up a little of one color and partially mix it with another or use a thinner so the blob of paint will be rich in one area and thinner in another. They use their brushes, different types for different shapes, to pick up these various color levels, keep them somewhat separated then transfer them to the canvas by brush technique. Since walnut burl is cloud like, you will want to use a blotting action, maybe not a brush. It's a combination of sharper edges along with softer more even areas. You build the look in layers. You may want some soft cotton like a smoothly balled T-shirt for the smoother areas of a burl and your first applications, on top of that you may want to crinkle up some plastic wrap or kraft paper to impart some harder edges and add darker colors on top of the softer ones. A tip of a feather can be used to pull some grain like lines. Since burl has a similar appearance to marble, you can look up some faux marble painting techniques and try some of those. The eyes of the maple will be hard to cover so a little brush technique like the tip of the feather may be used to blend them so they aren't as obvious and add to the depth. 

I've used this technique when repairing walnut burl with new pieces of walnut burl that do not match exactly. It's not easy. At least with the humidor, it will all be new and an even start. Oil paints can take a long time to fully dry. You have to be careful not to build much surface texture or have too much thickness of paint. Try to keep things one dimensional which can mean soft blotting after an application and a bit of redefining with the feather or a dry blot with whatever, plastic wad, paper. In one sense, you have to let things flow and not be stiff or repetitive in your application process, you also need to be controlling when loading your blotters and may want to change them after a couple of blots. I would want a piece of burl on hand to look at but approximating the look will be fine, exactly replicating it will drive you crazy. Hope this will help you.


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## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

Hammer1 said:


> Ken, I apologize. I thought twice about posting my rant, should have thought again. It was not meant personally but there are times I think the pot needs stirring to get people thinking. It doesn't come off well with the written word on a forum. I've been in the situation countless times where I've had to compromise. Most times the customer was more than satisfied by I wasn't, I know I could have, and should have done better. My intention was to challenge you, instead I offended you.
> 
> As cabinetmakers, it's not just our abilities to build but our experiences and resources that we bring to the table. Figured walnut pieces are not often done in solid wood, they are typically veneered. Obviously, this is a different technique than working with solid lumber. The problem for you is trying to make birds eye maple look like walnut burl. The differences are numerous. Colors can be matched or approximated but the character differences in the lumber cannot by common methods. I do know some individuals that can paint wood and you would not easily tell it from walnut burl. This isn't a do this, use that, type of skill. Short of expert faux painting skills, there isn't an easy way to make birds eye look like figured walnut unless you are willing to live with compromise and put in a lot of time. At that point, it probably makes more practical sense to start with the right species and whatever techniques are necessary to do that.
> 
> ...


Hammer,

Appology accepted. I looked into burl veneer as a possibility but it would have raised the price by about $300. My only goal is to approximate the color of walnut so that it looks good with his table. I know I cannot make it look like burl walnut. If you have any brands of stains or dyes that have worked well for you I'd appreciate knowing where to start to get the color close. If you think that it will be just too difficult to get a nice uniform dark color please say so. I certainly don't want to waste the wood or time trying to do so. Thanks for all your input.


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## Ken Johnson (Nov 8, 2007)

I ordered med brown and dark brown water based dye from General Finishes and I'm going to play with them on some scraps to see how it looks. If I get the right mix I'll post pics.


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