# Lacquer help



## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm making a maple vanity and need some help. I'm using deft brushing laquer from Lowe's. When I get it on heavy enough to not have any light spots i get runs in it. I'm new to using laquer so any info would be appreciated. Do I need a different laquer or thin what I have? I'm using a 1.4mm nozel gravity feed hvlp gun from harbor freight.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Well brushing lacquer is formulated for brushing which means it's meant to stay wet longer. If you use it with a sprayer and put a thick coat on then it stays wet long enough to run. Spraying lacquer is formulated to dry much faster so you can put a full wet coat on and unless you just overdo it will set up and dry before it runs. Another thing to look out for using lacquer is humidity. In humid weather moisture in the air gets trapped in the finish causing it to get milky. This is called blush. When humidity levels are just border line you can add retarder thinner to the lacquer which makes it more like your brushing lacquer. It slows the drying time down enough to let the water get out.


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## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

Your mention of "light spots" makes me think you are trying too hard to lay on a coat that appears evenly thick and wet. Don't worry so much about uneven appearance. Concentrate instead on your pattern and speed of moving the gun to insure the surface is recieving an even coat as you spray. Don't attempt to go back over spots in attempt to even out the thickness in coat regardless of appearance. No sanding between coats unless it is to knock down a run or somthing that blowed into the finish because each coat melts the previous coat. On your final coat,thin with the slowest reducer available and again concentrate on moving the gun for uniform coat. If the sheen isn't what you desire,you can rub it out to any sheen desired. Same is true of rough texture or unlevel finish. Once you complete a sucessful finish you will realize lacquer is one of the simplest to apply,most forgiving,easiest to repair and customize gloss of top coats.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Some good advice has been suggested. Brushing lacquer should be thin enough for spraying, but some brands aren't. Some are retarded to the point to allow a longer dry time so it can be brushed, but they could be thicker (more viscous), to be able to be brushed.

You may try a few options. You could use a fast dry lacquer thinner and thin the mix. It will spray more easily, and dry faster. You may need more applications, but usually, its a visual misconception of how much finish is being dispensed.

Next will be with your gun. HVLP puts out a more condensed volume, under lower pressure. It may be difficult to see how much media is actually being sprayed due to the lesser amount of overspray. You might try adding more light to your work subject so you have a better visual conception of how wet the spray pattern is getting. 

You may have to adjust the distance from the subject, the fluid/air mix, and the actual pattern. A more closely adjusted pattern will be carrying more material. Then, you have the speed at which you move the gun, and the amount of overlap with the passes. This whole technique comes with practice.









 







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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

Ok I will try some thiner. If it does blush what do you do to fix it?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

mkgcustom said:


> Ok I will try some thiner. If it does blush what do you do to fix it?


You have a few choices. It may disappear on its own. If it dries with a white fuzzy layer, you could try just spraying lacquer thinner. Or, make a mix of very retarded lacquer and thinner (if the thinner isn't a slow thinner), and spray again. It should melt in the blush.










 







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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

I spray Deft brushing lacquer, out of the can all the time and found it to be the easiest finish I have ever tried, by a long shot. Very forgiving.

I do not thin it.

Because it is formulated for brushing, it flows and self levels, meaning if your spray is not atomising properly and you are not getting a wet coat, in a few seconds it corrects itself.

I use a 1.3 tip, but on a different gun.

If your fluid control is too high, you will get runs, but believe me, if you have problems spraying Deft, anyting else will be a nightmare.

I believe the reason they call it "Brushing" is because of the EPA.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

mkgcustom said:


> I'm making a maple vanity and need some help. I'm using deft brushing laquer from Lowe's. When I get it on heavy enough to not have any light spots i get runs in it. I'm new to using laquer so any info would be appreciated. Do I need a different laquer or thin what I have? I'm using a 1.4mm nozel gravity feed hvlp gun from harbor freight.


i don't know how many item's you plan to make and spray??. I only use spray lacquer from M.L.CAMPBELL . Or get lacquer from sherman william's. This is pro lacquer. All so get the lacquer thinner from them also it is refinded better. Cost more but it is worth it. Mine i belive is around $22.00 a gal. but i will not use anything but that. And the lacqure also. The nozel i use is 2mm and i use 30 lbs of air. I have no problum's on spraying. Been doing this for yrs. I used to use deft yrs ago but you can take you fingure nail and scrap the finish off?? My cabnet grade you can not scrape off. it is a hard finish. Go get some good stuff and you will not go to the box store for your finish product's good luck The stuff you get from the box store's i call 2nd class stuff. Deft is to soft to start with. my 3 cent's


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm going to get some laquer from sherwin williams if they have it in stock. Will it be fine to put it over the deft? I think my main problem is trying to get to even of a wet coat with the doors hanging. All the other stuff I've used it on was laying down flat.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

mkgcustom said:


> I'm going to get some laquer from sherwin williams if they have it in stock. Will it be fine to put it over the deft? I think my main problem is trying to get to even of a wet coat with the doors hanging. All the other stuff I've used it on was laying down flat.


It will work but you may to much on their or to many coat's . I would sand 400 grit make it smooth. That is what i sand my sanding sealer to 400. than 2 over coat's that is all that i use . I bet they do. They own M.L.CAMPBELL co. but campbell make's their own lacquer and thinner . If you want the finish coat get it from sherwin williams it will be good. try the 2mm nozzel and 30 lbs of air . Just make ever coat and it won't run. lite coat's are better but make sure and spray away from you. If not the over spray will go back over the good coat and make it look hazzy. Spray from from frount to back only . good luck


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

mkgcustom said:


> I'm going to get some laquer from sherwin williams if they have it in stock. Will it be fine to put it over the deft? I think my main problem is trying to get to even of a wet coat with the doors hanging. All the other stuff I've used it on was laying down flat.


Suggest you purchase a retarder with that. Post back here once you have tried it and let us know the results.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I use Pro-Mar lacquer from Sherwin Williams. I wouldn't use retarder thinner in it unless the weather is humid. It will make the finish take much longer to fully cure. In humid weather when the finish blushes it will melt away when you spray the next coat but you will either have to wait for dryer weather or use retarder thinner. Retarder thinner has limits though. It is really only good when the humidity is close to 70%. If the humidity is much more than 70% the retarder thinner won't help. You will just have to wait for dryer weather.


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## bentwood (Jan 26, 2012)

Discussion of lacquer blushing should include mention of temperature along side humidity. Generaly higher the temperature for a given %humidity,higher the liklyhood of blush. The rapid evaporation of lacquer solvents (even slow thiners evaporate quite fast compared to other solvents) causes a cooling effect on the surface of the finish effectivly causing "dew" droplets to form. Point being that the warmer the air,the faster "any" solvent evaporates and causes said cooling.
Don't ask me to repeat that because I was making it up as I went along so therefore,I don't even understand all I know about it.:laughing:


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

Well my local Sherwin Williams didn't have any laquer. So I got some from Pittsburg paintand retarder. I haven't got to really try it cause its been raining and when it is not raining it's been about 80 to 90% humidty. I am going to try it tomorrow. What is a good ratio of retarder to use if humidty is high? Also, how do you rub it out to customize the gloss?


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

Here is some pics before finishing.


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

Here is with the bright red transtint dye applied.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

At 80 to 90 percent humidity I would say no retarder at all because it's too humid for lacquer. You really need to get down to 70 percent before using lacquer with retarder. I don't use Pittsburg Paint so I would recommend you go by the specification sheet on the product or if there is instructions on the can.


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

Well I'm hoping the humidty is down low enough tomorrow. The girlfriend is on my butt to get her bathroom back together.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Humidity is just one of the issues why I try not to use lacquer anymore. The biggest issue is the majority of the finishing work I do now is on cabinets and I've had so many customer complaints about the finish getting damaged by the customer letting water run down the front of the cabinets. It's a shame, lacquer is so quick and easy when the weather is right but I've had to hold up some jobs for a couple of weeks because I started them with lacquer and it started raining.

I see now why Sherwin Williams didn't carry the lacquer. Only a few of their professional stores will carry pigmented lacquer. This is something they can get but you have to special order it.


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

So laquer gets messed up easy with water? What clear do you use for cabinets? I started using laquer because of the quick drying time. Is there something better to use with quick drying time? What about the post catalized laquer?


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

Why am I getting air bubbles in the laquer when I spray it on.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

mkgcustom said:


> So laquer gets messed up easy with water? What clear do you use for cabinets? I started using laquer because of the quick drying time. Is there something better to use with quick drying time? What about the post catalized laquer?


I stopped using lacquer about 20-25 years ago, and went to waterbase polyurethane. It dries very fast, stays clear, doesn't blush, and cleans up with water. It's very durable, equal to lacquer IMO. It's used for flooring, and holds up very well on furniture.









 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The bubbles are caused by the lacquer being too thick. Sometimes in hot weather it is necessary to use a little more thinner in it or put a slight amount of retarder thinner to get it to flow out. What is happening is the surface is drying too fast before the vapors can escape and it makes bubbles like a soft drink. I have suspended using lacquer also for many things. I had too many customer complaints on the finish of cabinets in locations where water is used. Many people can't keep from letting water run down the front of a sink cabinet and lacquer won't hold up to it. For this I changed to an oil based polyurethane.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)




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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

HELP what caused this and how do I fix it?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

mkgcustom said:


> HELP what caused this and how do I fix it?


Hard to tell. Could be a reaction with the dye, incompatible retarder, blushing, water/sweat, or just too much of an application. Gun might not have been clean, or contamination from the airline.









 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The top picture, the door is in the sun. Was it placed in the sun after you sprayed it or just to take the picture? Lacquer would need to dry for a week or so before it would be safe to set in the sun. This is the only time I have seen anything like that with a lacquer finish. I had a new employee that thought it would speed things along to spray a table and set it outside to dry. If this is the case the finish is not cured and when exposed to sun it builds up vapors under the finish and just swells up in big bubbles. From the looks of the other areas you are not sanding between coats and just putting your lacquer on too thick. 

You could use paint and varnish remover and strip these doors but I think it would be quicker and easier to rebuild them. You can also take a exacto knife and run it around the bubble and cut the bubbles off and then work to re-level the finish but I think that would be more labor intensive than stripping them.


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## mkgcustom (Feb 9, 2012)

Yes I put them in the sun. Now I guess I learned an expensive leason. If I do use the Deft laquer can I thin it? It says not to thin. I think they say that because of the epa.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've never used Deft brand lacquer so I couldn't say just how much but you can thin it. I think most people break this rule but its a good idea whichever brand of lacquer or paint you use that you use the same brand of thinner. Lacquer thinner is not a single chemical but a blend of different solvents. The chemists at Deft have formulated their lacquer thinner to work best with their lacquer. You run the risk if you mix different brands there won't be the correct formula. The directions for the Sherwin Williams lacquer I use say to let dry an hour between coats but lacquer melts into the previous coat so I extend the drying time when I use it. I normally let dry an hour for the first coat and two hours for the second coat and so on. A person can spray on too much in one day and have all these solvents trapped underneath making it take a very long time to cure fully. Lacquer is usually used pretty thin. I thin the Sherwin Williams lacquer I use about a half gallon of thinner to a gallon of paint.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

mkgcustom said:


> So laquer gets messed up easy with water? What clear do you use for cabinets? I started using laquer because of the quick drying time. Is there something better to use with quick drying time? What about the post catalized laquer?


Go read my previous post, sad to hear of your troubles.

You can thin Deft with normal Lacquer thinner you buy at Home Depot or Lowes.

If you are not an experienced finisher, Deft brushing lacquer is the easiest finish you can find to spray. If you cannot get that to work, directly out of the can, or thinned as much as you want to, it is unlikely that you will be successful with anything else.

I have sprayed Deft mid summer, outside in the sun with North Carolina tempertures at 104F, the only problem I had was a couple of drops of sweat finding their way onto the finish and even that was fixable.


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