# Quality measuring tools



## GSXRFanIM (Jan 16, 2019)

So I just got serious about woodworking a few years ago but have always been handy with building things around the house.
Typical Lowes or HD tools like tape measure, combination square...etc
I now realize how important it is to have better quality measuring tools.
I contemplated getting a Woodpecker square but settled on the iGaging combination set.
I got it a few days ago and out of the box I checked it with a 3" Starrett machining square that I happened to find at a flea market.
Once I tested it for accuracy, I checked all my other tools that I was using for so long and you can guess how that turned out.
Now i know why i would get frustrated with making cuts that didnt fit right.
Whats nice is I have convinced my wife that having these tools are very important to building better things. :smile2:
I was able to square up an Empire square that had to be out of square by 1/16" up to its 8" length.
I also picked up an Incra 4" T Rule that is a lot cheaper than the Woodpecker. I have used it a few times now and besides being a little flimsy it will work.
I also ordered (on the cheaper end of Woodpecker items) the 12" Edge rule and the 24" woodworking rule.

So for those who are getting into woodworking it does pay to have some quality in your measuring devices.
Would love to have a Starrett square but I can't justify the price unless I was making a living at what I was doing.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I think that you must have had bad luck/was unfortunate with your early tool buy. I have had no significant problem with measuring tools that I have purchased at an ordinary retail outlet. I have checked squares before leaving store and taken best one.


I know that it gives a person a good feeling to purchase expensive tools. However, I do not think it is necessary.



George


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

A square Starrett square is no more square than a lesser priced square that is square whether you are a hobbyist or a pro.


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## Pretender (Jun 22, 2019)

I don't have any "quality" measuring tools.
My squares are square as far as I can determine. My tape measure matches my ruler which matches the scale on my table saw.
I would truly love to have some really nice measuring tools but do just fine without. Besides, it's just not in the budget.
I can buy a lot of wood for what some of those tool cost.


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## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

I own a small 3 sided drafting ruler, that's the fanciest thing I've ever used. I will state that I do very much prefer stanley tape measures to any other brand, at least the one I own has thinner lines on it. I never did see a point in paying a few hundred dollars for rulers and squares, unless you're doing machining. Then that makes perfect sense. 



-T


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## sanchez (Feb 18, 2010)

Consistent measuring and marking is important. I've got an Empire combination square that's served me well for quite some time. Congratulations on your new tools!


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## jproffer (Nov 7, 2006)

GSXRFanIM said:


> So I just got serious about woodworking a few years ago but have always been handy with building things around the house.
> Typical Lowes or HD tools like tape measure, combination square...etc
> I now realize how important it is to have better quality measuring tools.
> I contemplated getting a Woodpecker square but settled on the iGaging combination set.
> ...



I don't understand that part. If you use the same tape measure all the way through the process, the accuracy of the numbers is really irrelevant. If I measure 10" and cut 10"...it don't matter if it's 4" in reality...it's 10 on my tape and it will fit.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

jproffer said:


> I don't understand that part. If you use the same tape measure all the way through the process, the accuracy of the numbers is really irrelevant. If I measure 10" and cut 10"...it don't matter if it's 4" in reality...it's 10 on my tape and it will fit.


That works in an individual shop, in production it is often necessary to make a part to exact standards so it will fit other components made elsewhere.

Many hobbyists get along better using a cut to fit method rather than a cut to dimension method, using story sticks, etc.


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## woodshed (Feb 11, 2020)

jproffer said:


> I don't understand that part. If you use the same tape measure all the way through the process, the accuracy of the numbers is really irrelevant. If I measure 10" and cut 10"...it don't matter if it's 4" in reality...it's 10 on my tape and it will fit.


Is working only if you always using same tool for all measurements. Maybe not good if using tape and ruler both.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

FrankC said:


> A square Starrett square is no more square than a lesser priced square that is square whether you are a hobbyist or a pro.


No, but it is more guaranteed to be square. As a general rule, a Starrett square will always be square to a set tolerance, one of those lesser priced squares may not be. Sure, if both squares are perfectly square then theyre equal, but that Starrett will have NIST traceable certifications proving it. Course, doesnt matter much for woodworking, but precision metrology equipment has its place


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> No, but it is more guaranteed to be square. As a general rule, a Starrett square will always be square to a set tolerance, one of those lesser priced squares may not be. Sure, if both squares are perfectly square then theyre equal, but that Starrett will have NIST traceable certifications proving it. Course, doesnt matter much for woodworking, but precision metrology equipment has its place


No argument with that, some of the high end tools in woodworking are more of an ego thing than a necessity in a lot of cases.


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## TomCT2 (May 16, 2014)

the classic "framing square" is the most valuable in the group.
why?
get a measuring tape in millimeters - because you can measure to 1/2 mm aka 1/50.8 of an inch
like super more better than 1/16 or 1/32


measure the short side
measure the long side


then do the 

a squared + b squared = c squared math
check the hypotenuse
you can prove/verify the framing square is "square"


the longer sides provide for less error in the "angle"
use it to check other devices
do not drop it.


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

I have never seen, or owned two tape measures that are identical for measuring in a shop environment, they are like unicorns. We hear about them, but nobody has ever really seen one. In my shop, I do not use tape measures. I have some Starrett and machinest squares on hand for checking the fence on the jointer, squaring the table saw blade and stuff like that. When I use a measuring device it is usually one of my Lufkin stick rules. I was taught using story poles. They are never wrong, and always exact. For stuff like checking boxes for square I check the diagonals, I do not use a square. You can us a simple wood scrap and make a tic mark on it for checking diagonals. For checking stock thickness after planing I use my digital calipers.


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## Onefreetexan (May 3, 2018)

I think all my measuring tools are older than I am, and I’m pretty old...the quality of those old tools is amazing,, and I’m not even sure what some of them are for...Like I just discovered that this really old tool I have is great for finding the center of something I want to turn.


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## GSXRFanIM (Jan 16, 2019)

jproffer said:


> I don't understand that part. If you use the same tape measure all the way through the process, the accuracy of the numbers is really irrelevant. If I measure 10" and cut 10"...it don't matter if it's 4" in reality...it's 10 on my tape and it will fit.


It was mostly not having a good square to check table saw blade to fence
And also realizing my Miter Saw was not 90 degrees to the fence and bed. Makes trim work come out a little off.
I'm not saying they were off by a lot but when you are doing trim and know you made the right measurement and then it doesnt fit correctly.
I started looking at the saw and how it was cutting.
its all a learning experience


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

I have wound up with several "Fat Max" measuring tapes. (Stanley) All were purchased within a few months. I have checked them against one another for about 60 inches. They are accurate to each other. 

The reason that I bring this up is that measuring tape accuracy is irrelevant as long as the tape is used for the entire job or project. 

Another point, in woodworking we do not need measuring tools that can be traced to NBS for accuracy. A square needs to be reasonably accurate. To test a square, take a piece of wood with a straight edge. A bench can be used. Put the square against the bench and draw a line. Flip the square so that the opposite of the blade is now down. Does the blade now line up with the line that was drawn? If it is reasonably close, you have a square / square.

When you start thinking about accuracy, realize that wood moves, PERIOD. We can not change that. As a general rule of thumb, wood that has reached moisture content equilibrium in your shop will move about 1/8 inch per foot across grain. Send it from your shop to Phoenix it will shrink. Send it from your shop to New Orleans it will expand. From Phoenix to New Orleans about 1/8 inch per foot.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

We need at least 1 dead on accurate square in the shop. Also critical for machine set up. IMO every ww'er needs to own a 12" Starrett combination square. There are Starrett models in the $80 range.

There is no reason to think only commercial ww'ers can justify quality tool.

If you seriously plan on elevating your game, you need good quality tools. Not only how you get the job done, they are an investment in your skill development. 

I can tell you from personal experience our progress as craftsmen is hindered by cheap, inaccurate tools.


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## AwesomeOpossum74 (Jan 27, 2017)

My tools vary in cost, but I feel good that they are quality for their purpose in my shop.

- Found at my local Lowe's: Dewalt 9' measure tape. Small, tough, and measures accurate to all my other tools. Great for all the projects I've built so far. Something like $8. I bought 2.
- I have both a 4" and 12" Starrett combo square. Even though they're Starrett, I still have to fidget them to ensure they're perfectly square.
- I bought a cheap 3' square at Harbor Freight, for the sole purpose of using the rule as a straight edge. I checked it for straightness against other tools in the store. I don't use it for measurement, but I got a good 3' straight edge for $10.


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

I have to respectfully disagree with you. Like a snowball rolling down a hill inaccuracies multiply and compound. When I set my planer blades up I do not use the jig, I use a dial indicator and the knives are set at 6/1000 over the drum on both sides. If the blades are not perfectly parallel then that defeats the purpose of a planer. The jointer has one job, to make a surface perfectly flat. If the outfeed table is even slightly skewed to the infeed, then it is a paper weight. Yes wood moves and I can only control what I can control. But "close enough to square" may be fine for framing, but certainly not for fine woodworking. We all have tolerances we work within, but I would never check a box for square with a square. I would use a piece of flat stock and compare the diagonals. Even with extreme care we are working with living, imperfect materials. But paying attention to detail pays dividends in the end. Nothing is more frustrating than having to plane and fit inset drawer faces more than you should have to because the face frame is slightly out of square r the rails are not set perfectly into the stiles. For proof, assemble a box that was cut on a CNC where accuracy is easily under 1/1000 and compare the experience of assembling a box cut on a cabinet saw.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I had a Starrett 4 inch double square. I bought it a few years ago along with a couple used power tools. I used it a lot. It disappeared about six months ago. 

I miss that Starrett double square. 

I looked for a used one, but didn't find one at a reasonable price. I couldn't bear the thought of spending 80 bucks to buy a new Starrett 4 inch double square.

I bought an iGaging double square for $20. It is square and it does everything a 4 inch double square is supposed to do, but it isn't the same. The blade doesn't slide as smoothly, and it is harder to set to the exact measurement you want. It is harder to line up the little part inside when you want to reattach the blade. There are other, subtle differences.

I miss that Starrett double square.


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

I will say that buying a Bridge City Tool Works 12" combination square was one of the best investments I ever made. It elevated my accuracy by a noticeable degree. One of the problems with so many measuring tools is that the lines are too thick. With the extra fine lines marking msmts. to 1/32", it is just that much easier to be accurate. That is my experience, say what you will about it. No daylight shows at the joints I make.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

A good rule of thumb:
You can NEVER be too accurate, but it is easy to ruin a job with inaccuracies.

Being "perfect" will take more time, better tools and ... patience. Cheap tools can be accurate enough for woodworking, but the results might not be "heirloom" quality.

Don't go into debt buying measuring equipment, but don't skimp if you can afford "more".


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Knowledge and experience are still imperative even with accurate tools. Understanding clearances, wood movement and knowing how to read a scale for repeatable measurements will result in a superior product.

I like quality tools as much as the next guy, but sometimes one has to decide if they want to be a worker or a collector.


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

I have 6 Starrett combination squares . All were inherited. Two are 6" , one is 3" and another 4". The 3" may not be a Starrett but has the heft and quality of one. Also have a 12" and another 12" with a center body and an angle dividing head. Never took these to work, instead used a decent square that probably cost less than $10.00 in 1963. 
I also do machining as a hobby and use machinist squares for set up work. To square a saw blade to the table or squaring a jointer fence the machinist squares are best for me. 
Also plastic drafting angles are dead square and are an inexpensive alternate to squares for set ups.
mike


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

DrRobert said:


> We need at least 1 dead on accurate square in the shop. Also critical for machine set up. IMO every ww'er needs to own a 12" Starrett combination square. There are Starrett models in the $80 range.
> 
> There is no reason to think only commercial ww'ers can justify quality tool.
> 
> ...


AMEN! I use Starrett squares for my machine setup. I also have Starrett dial indicators which I use on a magnetic base for setting jointer knives, planer knives, aligning my saw blades to the miter slot, and fence. If the mason is out on the foundation then the framer will be out, the drywall will be out, the crown moldings will be out, the kitchen cabinets will be out. It is true that wood moves, but controlling what I can has always minimized problems down the road for me.


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## Pixxture (Nov 2, 2020)

The OP made me remember back in the 80’s i had a old table saw and what i thought were accurate squares. Every time the rip fence was moved it would also go to a different out of square position. I would re-adjust the fence with my out of square squares, and i wondered why nothing fit. 
I agree buy better tools. Don’t have to be more expensive but they need to be good. I have square HF squares (had to check 3 different sets to get a good set)
My favorite square is an empire square, but i have a woodpecker, just in case. I don't cry if i drop the HF or Empire.
I just purchased an incra miter gauge and find it superb, a joy to use.
I enjoy having and using good tools, does that make me a better woodworker. Yes. Does that make me a good woodworker? No. I just enjoy my shop time a LOT more.


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