# Handplaning



## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm planing 2" x 6" x 12' oak bridge timbers, using a Bailey Jack and Bailey Bench. Both steels were hollow ground, honed to twenty-five degrees and stropped on a cotton buffing wheel/polishing grit.

At times both planes jam resulting in tear out and at other times it doesn't seem they are cutting at all. This seems most prevalant at knots where the Jack seems to "skip" over the knot as a high spot, pivot, and jam.

The planks have been air dried to around fifteen percent but remained stored uncovered. No debris is on the planks but they are weathered grey and checked somewhat. They also have about a sixteenth inch circular rip saw gouges.

I'm open to comments about the planes and my technique. Thanks,


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## SeeDBee (Oct 27, 2008)

Sounds to me like you have the math right for sharpening the blade. Also sounds to me like the plane is not tuned to you or your application. 

Below is a photo of the cover of a book I recently purchased, and the author goes into great detail about how to sharpen and tune most wood planes. It helped me a great deal.


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks. I have either that book or one similar but I haven't used it for some time. I'll double check tuning, though. I tuned both Baileys some time back, especially the soles. I'm wondering, though, if the planks are so weathered, and so coarse, that I may be using the wrong planes, wrong tool, or expecting too much, too soon for surface dressing.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

You should use a fore plane, then a jointer, then a smoother. Or acceptable alternatives. The Jack can work as the fore, just open the mouth up on it. Are you hitting it straight on? Try diagonally across the wood. Also, make sure you are going the correct direction in relation to the grain. That should help prevent tearout.


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks, ACP. After your post I realized I have both terminology and technique problems. The planes I'm using are a #7 Bailey @ 22" and a #4 Bailey @ 9". 

I followed SeeBDee's advice and double checked truing. The only thing that concerns me is the wide throat on the #4 smoothing plane, which I didn't realize was the wrong plane to be using at this time. It may be possible someone may have filed the throat on this plane and I don't have another to compare it with.

The plank in question needs to be "trued". It deflects from horizontal about a quarter inch on one end and less on the other--no twist, though. So, I was trying to take the slight bow out and was cutting on the concave side, which may explain why the #7 seems to cut only tiny amounts here and there along the 10' length. To answer your question about direction, I wasn't cutting straight on all the time, opting to cut cross grain at times. As for grain, I'm so inexperienced that I don't do a very good job of determining grain direction right now.

Any further suggestions?


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

JStephen said:


> Thanks, ACP. After your post I realized I have both terminology and technique problems. The planes I'm using are a #7 Bailey @ 22" and a #4 Bailey @ 9".
> 
> I followed SeeBDee's advice and double checked truing. The only thing that concerns me is the wide throat on the #4 smoothing plane, which I didn't realize was the wrong plane to be using at this time. It may be possible someone may have filed the throat on this plane and I don't have another to compare it with.
> 
> ...


Well....the open mouth on your #4 is a concern. That should be tight. Don't know if you can save it if the mouth has been filed. As far as the #7 for the concave....you can true it up with that, it just takes longer. If you can get a #6 or #5 and work the out of true areas quickly, then follow with the jointer you'd save a lot of time and effort. As far as grain reading, just look at the top and bottom edges of the board. Clean it up if you need to a bit to see grain definition. The grain should run ///// or \\\\\\. Planing with the grain means the grain runs up in the direction of your direction of planing. i.e. -> this way for ////// and this way <- for \\\\\.


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## Jason (Mar 30, 2010)

Like this


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

Jason said:


> Like this


Yes, that's a slight improvement over my slashes and backslashes. Thanks Jason.


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

What about knots? Doesn't the grain run both directions radially from the center of the knot. Knots are where I'm having the most difficulty and that is where my tear-out is occurring. I'm also sharpening and tuning my #5 Bailey. If I can figure how to post a photo, I'll forward a sole picture of the #4 Bailey. Steve


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## Jason (Mar 30, 2010)

Did some searching and this is what I found for ya.

Bill from WA says, "Use a toothed blade. Do preliminary planing with a toothed blade and final planing with a regular blade. 

Stephen from fullchisel.com says, 

"When I look at a board, hopeing I have a knot or two, it is easy to determine the top of the tree. If I know the top of the tree by looking at the board, then I know in which direction to plane. The grain of the wood will not necessarily tell you how to plane the wood, but the knots they tell you which way is up. Because gravity works on horizontal objects like branches, the center of the knot, the center of the branch is lower in the overall knot. Therefore the wider rings indicate up. And it is always important to know which way is up. I wish I could figure out by looking at a board on which side of the tree it grew on. That is important sometimes.
The advantage of using a toothing plane to plane the knots prior to hand planing, is first that it will give you an idea of grain direction and secondly it will prepare the knots by toothing them so that when the plane hits it chip out is reduced. I just plane around the knot get an idea of the direction then work up tightly. I do scrape the knots for final finish."


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

Terrific advice! Thanks for a great learning point.

I've included two photographs, one addressing concerns over the size of the mouth on the Bailey #4. I put a micrometer on the mouth of each Bailey; they all come out 11/64ths and change. I do notice a bit of a gap between the bottom of the mouth and back of the iron. Hmm. The second photograph is a sample of the plank showing a knot and tearout.


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## opticsguy (Apr 27, 2010)

*try a scrub plane*

Why not locate an older Stanley Scrub Plane #40 or equivalent? You can quickly get your board free of the saw marks, rough areas and remove some twist or warp in your board. You will be quite impressed with the rapid progress you will make. 

After the scrub plane you can then aim to smooth and flatten to your final dimensions.


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

Most importantly, thanks to everyone for their advice to this novice, if I'm even at that level...

To date, this is what I've learned:

The handplane is a very precision tool, affected by most everything from technique to truing the sole. Since I maintained counter mortar, counter battery radars for the army, this appealed to me...

Identification of grain on stock is critical in avoiding tearout.

Listening is critical. Since this time I've closed the mouth of all three planes, re-checked sharpening and sole conditioning, and grain direction. Now, I'm cutting the plank to rid it of the tearouts I created initially; the result being a very nice plank of Red Oak.

Now, if I can just figure out what a scrub plane is....


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

*Handplaning, update*

I listened to Opticsguy, thanks. Ebay provided opportunity to buy a Stanley 40 1/2 and I trued it up upon receipt. I lapped the sole and sharpened the iron pursuant to Lie Neilson standards for sharpening their scrub planes. I departed from their procedure in the final sharpending by buffing to a polish. I extended the iron only 1/16 inch which exposed the radius (appears to be about 3") only a tiny bit. Then I set about practicing on my oak plank. 
The results were interesting. When I cut cross grain, I had some tear out, not along the edges or end of plank but near knots and one place where the plank may have been damaged or weakened. When I cut with the grain but angled the plane at 45 degrees, the cuts were much better with no tearout and it cleaned up very well with my Bailey #4. Trouble is, the scrub plane removes vast amounts of material and I think it should be used only on rough sawn timber, not materials with close tolerance toward the finished product. It cut very, very well, though. Was easy to move and control, especially with the sole treated with paraffin.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

You have to learn how the grain flows. Around knots is tough because of the quick grain reversals. Using a razor sharp plane helps, but you are still cutting against the grain. What you have to do is learn to read the wood. Put marks down where the grains reverse and stop there. Then go the other direction with the grain. You will never be able to take single long swoops with a hand plane on a board that has knots without expecting to have some tearout. Skewing the plane while traveling in a straight line will help out a lot. But it will reduce the width of the planed area.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

You are correct that a scrub should be used for a rough board. They were primarily used for getting large amounts of material off a board to get it close to a desired thickness before switching to a fore, jointer, smoother, and so on. Scrubs hog off material. I would consider them the hand tool equivalent of a thickness planer, except you don't need any sides flat that early in the hand tool process. You shouldn't worry about tearout with scrub planes because you aren't planing with the grain, but at angles across the width of the board, not the length.


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

*Handplaning, update*

Such is the beauty of this site. I started with a reclaimed bridge timber and a jointer plane, worked myself to death and finally learned about scrub planes. Let me see if I have this right. On the next reclaimed timber, I'll start with the scrub. That'll get me close to thickness with solid, clear wood. Then, I'll work the scrub cuts out with my smoother (#4 Bailey??), then go to the jack (#5 Bailey??), then the jointer (#7 Bailey??) to fine tune the dimensions needed, and back to the smoother for the final finish. That sound about right?

Leo, I've been successful with sharpening and have razor sharp planes. I don't fully understand what you mean by stopping where the grain reverses near the knots, marking the area and reversing plane direction. I was going full length of the board but at about a 45 degree angle off direction of travel, which worked very well. I've almost no tearout anymore except a tiny bit around the knots. If I understand you correctly, I should use the #4, very sharp, and clean up the knots by attacking from various directions, then back to the jack for dimensioning? What about going back over the knots, would that not increase the chance of ruining my previous work?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

If you continue in a straight pattern with the plane and ignore the grain you will get tearout. You need to stop planing at the grain reversal. Lift the plan off the wood and then restart planing in the opposite (with the grain) direction. You will leave a small bump where the reversal is and you can get rid of that by going across the grain on that small section only. If you ar careful you can make it look pretty good. Close to a full single stroke. I have hand planed 1000's of BD FT when I was working for a company that did reproduction work. We started with nice pine. As the wood because more expensive we switched to #1 which has a lot of grain reversals. Then we switched to Poplar and that is when you learned a sharp plane is a must.

But starting, stopping and reversing direction is something that you will need to do unless you have very nice boards with grain that only flows in one direction. You need to work with the wood, not against it.


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## opticsguy (Apr 27, 2010)

*scrub plane*

Good to hear you purchased a scrub plane, an excellent tool when you need one. You an do excellent work with one, the secret is not to set the blade too aggressivly unless you are removing large amounts of wood.

I am exploring three 20 foot slabs of spalted maple, 22 inches wide. I think it will be easier to work these by hand than to try passing them through a 20 inch planer, a new tool for me.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

JStephen said:


> On the next reclaimed timber, I'll start with the scrub. That'll get me close to thickness with solid, clear wood. Then, I'll work the scrub cuts out with my smoother (#4 Bailey??), then go to the jack (#5 Bailey??), then the jointer (#7 Bailey??) to fine tune the dimensions needed, and back to the smoother for the final finish. That sound about right?


Nope. Scrub, then fore (#6) or open mouthed jack (#5, 5 1/2), then the jointer (#7 or 8) then smoother (2, 3, 4, 4 1/2 et al). If you use the smoother after the scrub I will eagerly await your results. I will check back in a year or two for them:laughing:. Seriously though, post some more pics of how it comes along when you get to going.


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

*Handplaning, update*

Learning to prepare an oak plank for use in arts and crafts trim is going well. Many previous problems of tear out have been solved and I'll send photos along. First, I have another question.

In using Leonard Lee's Sharpening text, I find that truing the bed of the plane is very important. Knowing this, I set out to check the bed of a rather ancient Bailey #4, one that I've been using.

The text suggests that one should use carbon paper, machinists dye, or some other marking medium to mark the plane iron, place it in service, and clamp it with the lever cap. The result will be high spots recorded in carbon on the machined surface of: 1) throat, 2) bed of the frog.

In reality, this seems to be very difficult. First the mouth and throat could use some touching up, as the photos show. More troubling is the problem of the bed contacting only a small, say 10% portion of the plane iron. This is causing problems in cutting, chatter, and clogging of the iron. I'm not certain a file should be used to correct casting and machining problems. Does anyone else offer better solutions?


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

In response to your questions, I would check two things here. The first is the blade, to make sure it's flat where you are registering your marks. The second is the frog. Those marks in carbon that are on the frog could indicate it needs some fettling too. I'd pull the frog off and use some wet/dry sandpaper on it too. Use a permanent marker again to mark the bevel of the frog and carefully sand it flat. Make sure to maintain the bevel. The video on this link is a pretty good demonstration regarding handplane restoration. http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2008/06/18/podcast-35-tuning-a-hand-plane-for-performance/
I don't know if this helps or not. From the photo angle the throat looks ok as far as I can tell.


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## JStephen (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks, the podcast was good. Fortunately, I learned to do the things he mentioned so I may not be as far off as I feared. He, along with a few other articles I've read mentioned the use of the frog to increase or decrease the width of the mouth. In using the frog to decrease the width of the mouth, the plane iron loses direct contact, and support, of the throat. Doesn't this cause the iron to chatter?


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

Yes it does, I wonder why the frog movement is misaligning the blade? They should move together with no issues. I'm at a loss. Maybe someone else has an answer. Maybe you could ask Daren or TT to move this post to the hand tool section. There are some folks there that have forgotten more about this than I know. I don't know if they frequent the joinery section or not. Worth a shot anyways.


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