# 23 gauge pin fails to penetrate White oak



## sonofSon (May 25, 2020)

I'm building Craftsman style window trim from White oak.  The casing stiles are 7/8" thick and installed on jamb extensions, both made of White oak. Because the walls are wavy the stiles will need to be shimmed to the wall and the gaps concealed by a separate back band scribed to the wall. My principal method of attachment of the casings to the jamb and jamb extensions is to nail them with 16 gauge 1 1/2" trim nails, using a Paslode gas trim nailer. My plan was, however, before shimming and final nailing, to position and fasten the stile casings flush and square to the jamb extensions with two or three 23 gauge, 1 3/4" pins to avoid splitting the stiles by nailing too close to the reveal lines. I have a Grex 650 pin gun that has served to pin the ceiling-to-wall White oak molding you see in the first photo atttached, without a problem. 

The Problem: Grex recommends a compressor discharge pressure of 110 PSI for 1 3/8" or longer pins into hardwood. With pressures ranging from 110 to as much as 125 pounds I've repeatedly jammed my pin gun because the pin will stop proud of the casing surface by almost a 1/4" and then bounce back enough to jam the gun's ram, requiring a partial disassembly. 

I finally gave up on pins for the job, switched to the gas gun and held my breath while nailing within 1/2" of the reveal line, just enough nails to hold the casing in place until I could get everything shimmed up. 

The Question: Does anybody have experience with pins in hardwoods of similar thickness (7/8" or so) to tell me whether the tool is wrong for the job or whether I'm doing it wrong? (NB the second photo is erroneously rotated so the ceiling is to the left)


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

We don't use micro pins for trim work. Usually 15 guage...


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

As Rebel said, you don't install trim with pin nails. You need brads 15-16 gauge & you need longer nails than 1 1/2's. 7/8 + 1/2 = 1 3/8"

Personally, on wood that hard I wouldn't even try an air nailer. 

I would drill small holes and use 2 1/2" 8D finishing nails.


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## sonofSon (May 25, 2020)

Gentlemen, Thank you all for your helpful responses. I should have made myself more clear. I would not attempt to install this trim with pins. The purpose of my using 23 gauge pins was not to install the casing but merely to hold it in place until I could shim it sufficiently to install it with 16 gauge nails further away from the reveal lines. Whoever did the drywall back in 1973 should have been hung by his thumbs: the wall contours look like the sea with a little swell on it. The underlying jamb extensions are the only true nailing surfaces to rely on (without re-floating the walls) and only present a 3/4" target less the reveal width, so whatever nail or brad is used, it must be put in very close to the edge of the casing. After I've shimmed the casing to make sure it stays flat and square to the jambs, I'll install it with more robust nails. My reason for attempting 23 gauge pins was to avoid the risk of splitting the casing that near it's edge. The reason for using 1 1/2" 16 gauge nails was to minimize the risk of splitting the casing or breaking through the edge of the jamb extension. This is the fourth of the six windows in the project but this particular run of oak stock from my pile seems to have more heartwood than the rest. I'll take the suggestion for longer installation nails - i have some 2 1/4" 16 gauge on hand that the Paslode has put through 8/4 oak without issue, but I wouldn't try to put them through the jamb extensions.


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## Mark Jones Ozark (Feb 26, 2019)

My M12 Pin Nailer will sink a 1 3/8" 23-gauge nail in Oak no problem and sink the pin in. Runs on battery no air hose. Pretty sweet tool. I am using it to tack my CNC projects down.


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## Half Fast Eddie (Jan 12, 2022)

Rebelwork said:


> We don't use micro pins for trim work. Usually 15 guage...


Or 18


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Half Fast Eddie said:


> Or 18


That would be a no... There was a house completely by a new trim carpenter with 18 guage nails. Every board on that house that wasnt glued had to be nailed again with a 15 guage. 

I used 18 guage in my bathroom downstairs on chair rail. It popped loose after a few months...never again trying to make smaller holes...

A lot of Senco guys were buying PC nails because they were cheaper and eventually new trim carpenters were just buying PC guns, but there still using 15 guage nails...

If you want to use 18 guage that's okay on cabinet trim and corners with glue to keep form cracking...

Just not enough bite with an 18 guage nail..


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

sonofSon said:


> Gentlemen, Thank you all for your helpful responses. I should have made myself more clear. I would not attempt to install this trim with pins. The purpose of my using 23 gauge pins was not to install the casing but merely to hold it in place until I could shim it sufficiently to install it with 16 gauge nails further away from the reveal lines. Whoever did the drywall back in 1973 should have been hung by his thumbs: the wall contours look like the sea with a little swell on it. The underlying jamb extensions are the only true nailing surfaces to rely on (without re-floating the walls) and only present a 3/4" target less the reveal width, so whatever nail or brad is used, it must be put in very close to the edge of the casing. After I've shimmed the casing to make sure it stays flat and square to the jambs, I'll install it with more robust nails. My reason for attempting 23 gauge pins was to avoid the risk of splitting the casing that near it's edge. The reason for using 1 1/2" 16 gauge nails was to minimize the risk of splitting the casing or breaking through the edge of the jamb extension. This is the fourth of the six windows in the project but this particular run of oak stock from my pile seems to have more heartwood than the rest. I'll take the suggestion for longer installation nails - i have some 2 1/4" 16 gauge on hand that the Paslode has put through 8/4 oak without issue, but I wouldn't try to put them through the jamb extensions.


Under those circumstances I sometimes drill a small hole and use an old fashion finish nail. If your gun isn't covered up with safety devices you could drill a hole and go ahead and use the 16 gauge nail.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

yeah, you are past limits on what you are trying to do. 1 3/4" 23 ga pins and white oak. (have you tried rotating the gun 90 degrees - i always try that when having difficulty getting nails in) doubt it will help in this case, but maybe...

if you are gluing those strips down, as mentioned ,i would try 18 ga 1 3/4".


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Try rubbing the end of the sprigs with hard wax or a bar of soap, just run the whole clip across on the penetrating edge. Just don't get the wax on the drive end. I am not saying this will work, but it sure does on hand trim nails. Maybe the sprigs will hold until you can nail with the right nails. Just another thing to think about, too much wax and the stain will show where the sprig is. Might want to give that a try on a scrap piece to see if it will take stain after the wax sprig.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

As soon as the pressure builds up, I will attempt micro pins, 18 guage and 15 guage in hickory., I only have 3/4 micro pins...


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

So the micro pin worked the 18 guage was with 1" and the 15 guage with 2 1/2 nails all Senco..


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## Half Fast Eddie (Jan 12, 2022)

Rebelwork said:


> That would be a no...


My point was … if you think you want to use 23 ga but it’s not working, 18 is the next size up. Going to leave a smaller hole than 15.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

If it's temporary till you complete and take down you might try hot glue


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

sonofSon said:


> I'm building Craftsman style window trim from White oak. The casing stiles are 7/8" thick and installed on jamb extensions, both made of White oak. Because the walls are wavy the stiles will need to be shimmed to the wall and the gaps concealed by a separate back band scribed to the wall. My principal method of attachment of the casings to the jamb and jamb extensions is to nail them with 16 gauge 1 1/2" trim nails, using a Paslode gas trim nailer. My plan was, however, before shimming and final nailing, to position and fasten the stile casings flush and square to the jamb extensions with two or three 23 gauge, 1 3/4" pins to avoid splitting the stiles by nailing too close to the reveal lines. I have a Grex 650 pin gun that has served to pin the ceiling-to-wall White oak molding you see in the first photo atttached, without a problem.
> 
> The Problem: Grex recommends a compressor discharge pressure of 110 PSI for 1 3/8" or longer pins into hardwood. With pressures ranging from 110 to as much as 125 pounds I've repeatedly jammed my pin gun because the pin will stop proud of the casing surface by almost a 1/4" and then bounce back enough to jam the gun's ram, requiring a partial disassembly.
> 
> ...


Two methods, drill pilot hole for a brad nail. Or hot hide glue. No nails , pins needed. Dab the glue on , hold it in place for about 2 minutes til the glue dries,


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

sonofSon said:


> Gentlemen, Thank you all for your helpful responses. I should have made myself more clear. I would not attempt to install this trim with pins. The purpose of my using 23 gauge pins was not to install the casing but merely to hold it in place until I could shim it sufficiently to install it with 16 gauge nails further away from the reveal lines. Whoever did the drywall back in 1973 should have been hung by his thumbs: the wall contours look like the sea with a little swell on it. The underlying jamb extensions are the only true nailing surfaces to rely on (without re-floating the walls) and only present a 3/4" target less the reveal width, so whatever nail or brad is used, it must be put in very close to the edge of the casing. After I've shimmed the casing to make sure it stays flat and square to the jambs, I'll install it with more robust nails. My reason for attempting 23 gauge pins was to avoid the risk of splitting the casing that near it's edge. The reason for using 1 1/2" 16 gauge nails was to minimize the risk of splitting the casing or breaking through the edge of the jamb extension. This is the fourth of the six windows in the project but this particular run of oak stock from my pile seems to have more heartwood than the rest. I'll take the suggestion for longer installation nails - i have some 2 1/4" 16 gauge on hand that the Paslode has put through 8/4 oak without issue, but I wouldn't try to put them through the jamb extensions.


What brand pin nailer are you using? For hanging trim I have been using 18 ga. still has a small head but leaves a smaller mark than 16 ga. I have hung small oak crowns on cabs with 1 1/4" pins. Been using my M12 Milwaukee in the field, My 18ga and 15ga are Milwaukee M20. In the shop still using my old Senco. Asking because some of our guys are using Craftsman or Porter Cable and having issues.


Mark Jones Ozark said:


> My M12 Pin Nailer will sink a 1 3/8" 23-gauge nail in Oak no problem and sink the pin in. Runs on battery no air hose. Pretty sweet tool. I am using it to tack my CNC projects down.


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