# Finish for Black Walnut Cookies



## EM3 (Sep 12, 2011)

I didn't want to cut the small Black walnut tree down but since it was growing over the roof I had to. It wasn't real big but it was growing between two fences. We cut it down and cut about 12 cookies off of it all are 1/2 inch thick maybe. 2 questions since they are natural edge what is the best way to finish them? I was thinking of a clear finish. How long should they dry? I was thinking of using them as coasters or hot pads.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

If you just recently cut them they will be to wet to put a finish on them. I would seal both ends of the disc with anchor seal and leave it for awhile to dry. It will dry slow over time. Rule of thumb is 1" per year. As it dries the annual rings will shrink,causing it to check. Almost all the time this happens. Doesn't matter what you do. By sealing ends it will slow the drying process down, in hopes it controls checking. Walnut is more forgiving in this matter. You'll have to wait it out. 
It's a crap shoot. Unpredictable.
Good luck. Post pics if you can.

After reading again I'm realizing these are small. Lol. I was thinking they were table top size. If you want coasters let air dry for awhile them apply finish. If there trivet size you could probably do the same and be fine. It may check as it dries.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Well.......after laughing outloud for a few seconds, and still smiling as i clicked to see what this was really about, [thank god it wasn't really about coating home made walnut cookies], lol, i can now reply [still smiling though] 

till now, i had not heard the term "cookies" used to describe what you have, in the 17-18th centuries they were dubbed ovals or cut at am ore oblique angle "sausage's", lol, which i guess isn't much better than cookies 

Then they were used as inlays much thinner than what you have [.004"] and made mostly of kingwood or tulip wood two of the most common inlay types of this style. 

Though Dom, is absolutely correct on them drying and cracking no matter what you do normally, there is a company that can stabilize them so this will not happen, through impregnation of acrylic which displaces all the moisture in the wood. 

Whether you would want to spend the money to do so is your prerogative and they do not guarantee that something might not occur which would be less than perfect, so buyer beware. 

Still I've seen the success of the treatment and it is excellent. no movement due to climatic changes and they can even add dye to the acrylic to color various colors.

One thing you might want to do first though is to cut up more and thinner pieces maybe 1/8th " thick or so for coasters for more of an aesthetic look. If interested, just post and i will give you the info if interested ok?

Oh and this is something you would want to do soon before they have a chance to dry out much and crack to begin with ok?


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## EM3 (Sep 12, 2011)

Right now the only pics I have is on my IPhone and I am not sure how to post them.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

EM3 said:


> Right now the only pics I have is on my IPhone and I am not sure how to post them.


not sure if posting from an Iphone is any different than a puter, so i can't really help, maybe Dom, knows.. Here where i'm replying you just scrool down to where it says "manage attachments" and click on that, A new window will open up and you'll see browse buttons and you click on them, then when it's downloaded the pic you stretch the small window till you see the blue colored "upload button and click it, Then when you see file is attached right above the manage attachment button, then you can just click "submit reply" which i am now about to do less any pics, lol.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

EM3 said:


> Right now the only pics I have is on my IPhone and I am not sure how to post them.


To post pics from iPhone, click on the plus sign at top right and attach from photos. After it loads you can put it in line.


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## EM3 (Sep 12, 2011)

Ok I am finally back home let's try this.


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

EM3 said:


> Ok I am finally back home let's try this.


looks doable as to the acrylic impregnation, by the cartoon size on your newspaper i'm judging about 8" or so correct?

here is the site that does as i was telling you ok?

[email protected]

Read all the info ok? look at all the pics, make your decision. :yes:

Please let me know the outcome ok?


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Those little pieces you could soak in PEG known as polyethylene glycol. Here's a link that will explain what it is and what you can use it for. 
There's a lot to read. But check it out. 
Your welcome. http://owic.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/pubs/peg.pdf


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Those little pieces you could soak in PEG known as polyethylene glycol. Here's a link that will explain what it is and what you can use it for.
> There's a lot to read. But check it out.
> Your welcome. http://owic.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/pubs/peg.pdf


Peg's a good product Dom, been around along time "stabilizes" well. But it is not a monomer or polymer, meaning it, in and of itself, is not capable of hardening any material, this is the main difference in what i was offering and PEG. With a synthetic resin monomer that when by high pressure is forced through every fiber of the wood and then by chemical reaction and heat is then "polymerized" You have an end product "incapable" of further dimensional movement. 

With peg, you need further coatings to protect it from water or other liquids as well as other household chemicals etc. You could not throw PEG stabilized drink coasters in the dishwasher and expect them to survive for any time, you could not use them as is for alcoholic drinks and condensated moisture either. 

The stabilization is mainly relating to EMC swings under varying seasonal conditions. If there were no possibility of movement or expansion and contraction, steps would not even be given or necessary for further care. or protection. 

With an impregnated polymer taking the place of water/sap/oil/etc., and replacing it with a thermoplastic resin you make the structural make up of the wood incapable of following it's normal behavior of EMC adjustments. For all practical concepts it is like drying out wood to a zero degree of moisture and sawing it up into sawdust and mixing with acrylic or epoxy or polyester in a compact paste and allowing it to fully cure, thus creating a mass that is both rigid and hard and more durable than either by itself. 

In this process the only difference is that you get to keep the wood in it's original state with all it's natural beauty with the same parameters of protection. Plus some added benefits as to coloring it nearly any color throughout if you so desire.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Lol chemmy I was mostly referring to the drying capabilities of removing moisture in the discs. 
Not to get to technical. This is one way to stabilize checking by removing moisture in wood. 
From what I've heard and read PEG helps. I don't know. I've never used it before. Just a thought. 
Not to say its a finish by any means. Just a suggestion. If wrong please explain, In a 3rd grade level. Lol


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Lol chemmy I was mostly referring to the drying capabilities of removing moisture in the discs.
> Not to get to technical. This is one way to stabilize checking by removing moisture in wood.
> From what I've heard and read PEG helps. I don't know. I've never used it before. Just a thought.
> Not to say its a finish by any means. Just a suggestion. If wrong please explain, In a 3rd grade level. Lol


I'm not as smart as a third grader Dom, sorry................:laughing:


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

chemmy said:


> I'm not as smart as a third grader Dom, sorry................:laughing:


Are you smarter than a 5th grader. Lol


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dominick said:


> Are you smarter than a 5th grader. Lol


Nope had to drop out of kindergarten and find a job mixing chemicals lol:laughing:


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

chemmy said:


> Nope had to drop out of kindergarten and find a job mixing chemicals lol:laughing:


Lol. Yea those chemicals got to your brain. Lol
Baahaahaaaa Kidding.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

S p a m !!!


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## BangleGuy (Apr 24, 2012)

*Stabilizing*

Hey guys, it is an interesting thread. I also do stabilizing and have stabilized small sections of wood with as high as 25%MC. It is a cool process and you can go from a wet wood block to dried, hardened, ready-to-turn wood in about 2-3 hours (depending on the size and thickness). I have done some testing on how stabilizing effects moisture absorption and thought I would share this chart. I stabilize wood as a service and charge about 1/2 of WSSI (I also stabilize for wood trades), but I know I am new to the site, so I will wait awhile before I push too hard:smile: Eric


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

BangleGuy said:


> Hey guys, it is an interesting thread. I also do stabilizing and have stabilized small sections of wood with as high as 25%MC. It is a cool process and you can go from a wet wood block to dried, hardened, ready-to-turn wood in about 2-3 hours (depending on the size and thickness). I have done some testing on how stabilizing effects moisture absorption and thought I would share this chart. I stabilize wood as a service and charge about 1/2 of WSSI (I also stabilize for wood trades), but I know I am new to the site, so I will wait awhile before I push too hard:smile: Eric


Hi Eric, i guess i'm not comprehending what your doing as compared to monomer acrylic through impregnation and polymerization process, like i have mentioned? Mind explaining the concepts and what the finished product has in comparison to the way of further non-absorption of water once the process is complete?:blink:


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## BangleGuy (Apr 24, 2012)

I certainly am no expert on stabilizing resins, and so I have focused more on end item results. In my metal to wood bangles, I have had a concern of the effects of humidity on bond strength and product durability. So, I invested in a Turntex stabilizing chamber and resin (methacrylate ester), and have performed lots of humidity tests on over 30 different wood species. This was done to determine dimensional stability versus humidity (with and without stabilization). I have found several wood species which do not require stabilization since they are so dense. Most of these are pretty obvious.

So, as dimensional stability is closely tied to moisture absorption, and a little bit easier to measure, I spent a lot of time weighing samples :laughing:

Anyway, one of the interesting things I found along the way was that I could go from wet wood to dried and turned in less than a day, without cracks or checks. This is a cool way to speed up the whole process without waiting. I am sure it wouldn't work on all wood species (such as fruitwoods), but it works on spalted maple, osage, FBE and a few others :smile:

Eric


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

BangleGuy said:


> I certainly am no expert on stabilizing resins, and so I have focused more on end item results. In my metal to wood bangles, I have had a concern of the effects of humidity on bond strength and product durability. So, I invested in a Turntex stabilizing chamber and resin (methacrylate ester), and have performed lots of humidity tests on over 30 different wood species. This was done to determine dimensional stability versus humidity (with and without stabilization). I have found several wood species which do not require stabilization since they are so dense. Most of these are pretty obvious.
> 
> So, as dimensional stability is closely tied to moisture absorption, and a little bit easier to measure, I spent a lot of time weighing samples :laughing:
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks bangle


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

EM3 said:


> I didn't want to cut the small Black walnut tree down but since it was growing over the roof I had to. It wasn't real big but it was growing between two fences. We cut it down and cut about 12 cookies off of it all are 1/2 inch thick maybe. 2 questions since they are natural edge what is the best way to finish them? I was thinking of a clear finish. How long should they dry? I was thinking of using them as coasters or hot pads.


As thin as they are, they should dry pretty quick. As in any wood with a high MC, drying too fast, or the drying process could induce cracking. You can do an easy test for moisture, by weighing the pieces, and when they quit losing weight, that's about it for environment they are in. This test doesn't give moisture content.

After a slow dry, oiling, IMO, would be the most forgiving finish.









 









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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

+1 on what cabby said. Those smaller pieces don't take much time to dry on their own. Walnut it more forgiving also. 
I've heard of people putting smaller pieces in the microwave. I've never done that, so can't suggest on how long to leave in there. Cut them seal them and forget them. Their going to be trivets right? 
Movement won't be an issue. 
Besides hot pots and pans will dry it out real quick. Experiment with it, it's not like you'll lose that much on it. Good luck


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Dominick said:


> +1 on what cabby said. Those smaller pieces don't take much time to dry on their own. Walnut it more forgiving also.
> I've heard of people putting smaller pieces in the microwave. I've never done that, so can't suggest on how long to leave in there. Cut them seal them and forget them. Their going to be trivets right?
> Movement won't be an issue.
> Besides hot pots and pans will dry it out real quick. Experiment with it, it's not like you'll lose that much on it. Good luck


Ovens and microwaves could be too fast. LOML's advice is...slow to start.:yes:










 







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