# Small square recommendation



## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

In the market for a 6” or 8” steel square.

Since I can’t justify paying for a woodpecker I was looking at the Empire one at Home Depot. Is it any good? I know it won’t be as good as woodpecker. 
Any recommendations on other brands? 


True Blue Heavy-Duty Square

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202035308


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Any square is as good as it is accurate, buy it in person and check it at the store.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I just got this one from Amazon. It’s not quite a bargain, but it’s square. One thing I like about it a little better than the Woodpeckers square is that the blade is relatively thin, so transferring measurements is a little easier. 

https://www.amazon.com/Woodraphic-G...ds=Woodraphic&qid=1552003004&s=gateway&sr=8-3



I had a really nice try square made by Johnson that had a mahogany handle and a stainless steel blade. I dropped it and it went out of square and there’s no way to put it back, but I really liked that square.


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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

That looks like a woodpecker clone in black  

It is a lot cheaper then woodpecker but mixed review.

Anyone else want to share their square with me?  


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

a square (or any tool) is only as accurate as the person using it
to perform the task for which it was designed for.

i.e.: marking perfectly square lines on a piece of wood . . . . . 
then, the "craftsman" can't follow a straight line with a saw.
or: checking for square in a build, only to find it was not built
square to begin with.
even Harbor Freight carries "accurate" squares - if you calibrate them yourself.
so many people overthink the tools - compared to their skill set.

.

.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

“That looks like a woodpecker clone in black 🙂 
It is a lot cheaper then woodpecker but mixed review.”

There are some differences in the black square for good or bad. 

The Woodpeckers square is machined from a single piece whereas the black square is three pieces, allowing it to be adjusted if it goes out of square. Since the Woodpecker square is machined from a single piece, it’s less likely to go out of square. Also, the blade is thinner on the black square which I like, I only wish the blade was stainless.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

I got one of these Shinwa squares (plastic). The aluminum ones are just $2.00 more and I should have bought that. 

It is accurate and super-handy. But small. And $16.00 seems high. And the markings are in mm, not inches.

But I would buy it again as it is so handy.

https://www.amazon.com/Shinwa-Japanese-Aluminum-Saddle-Layout/dp/B00GVBMCLC


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Every 'machinist' or 'engineers square' I have ever had was extremely accurate. Also, plastic drafting triangles are extremely accurate. No matter where you go, it's quick and easy to verify if they are 'true'. Simply lay your square/triangle against one edge of a piece of paper and draw a line vertical (90*). Then flip the square over so that the base is at the opposite direction. Now slide it over to your drawn line and it should line up 100%.


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

Four inch Groz square from Woodcraft. They have three sizes- can get all three in a pack.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

Tony B said:


> Every 'machinist' or 'engineers square' I have ever had was extremely accurate. Also, plastic drafting triangles are extremely accurate. No matter where you go, it's quick and easy to verify if they are 'true'. Simply lay your square/triangle against one edge of a piece of paper and draw a line vertical (90*). Then flip the square over so that the base is at the opposite direction. Now slide it over to your drawn line and it should line up 100%.


It costs exactly the same amount of money to mold an accurate square from plastic as it would cost to mold an inaccurate one. The cost is in the mold making. But with CNC milling machines I expect that almost all plastic squares are pretty accuarate. And they don't get out of accurate due to drops or mishandling. 

The same can not be said for assembled squares. With an assembled square the machining has to be precise and the assembly has to be precise. Both of which add cost. So a Starrett adjustable square (which is pretty accurate) is going to cost a good deal more than a $10.00 Swanson square or a $8.00 Pittsburgh square (from Harbor Freight).

I paid over $100.00 for my Starrett several years back. It remains accurate.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A square only needs to be square ......*

If it checks out, the cost or means of manufacturing is irrelevant. I have all sorts of squares, Stanley, Starrett, Irwin and Harbor Fright :vs_OMG:
https://www.harborfreight.com/l-square-set-with-levels-3-pc-63033.html



For woodworking the tolerances are not established numerically, it just needs to fit well and look good. Glue lines are not always hidden as in a mortise and tenon, so they may show or not. A small square will only be used within it's length, so .001" accuracy per foot isn't needed. All the measuring instruments I've purchased from Harbor Fright have been reliable including digital calipers. :vs_cool:


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

As others have pointed out, it is easy to test a square. If it square, it is square, and then the only other considerations would be:

* Cost.
* Utility to purpose - Some squares are more suitable for some uses than others.
* Styling or fashion - does it look good or feel good in the hand.

I have a bunch of squares of different types and sizes. I suspect it is true for most of the people here. For basic woodworking, I use the Starrett combination square the most. 

I have a Sorby "Gilt Edge" 9 inch try square that was tossed in when I bought a used bandsaw. Besides being perfectly square, it is a work of art. The brass, wood, and blued steel give heft and feel good in the hand to use. Working with it feels better than the combination square, although I can't really explain why. Perhaps it is the wider blade. 

I would love to have a 6 inch try square just like it, and maybe I'll find one lost in a bin somewhere. Do I really need a try square, when the Starrett combination square will do just fine? No. Do I enjoy using it? Yes.


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

I bought my machinist squares from Enco, now MCLS I believe, and they were reasonable. Came with a guarantee of accuracy if you can believe that. May be overkill for woodworking as stated above.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

Tool Agnostic said:


> As others have pointed out, it is easy to test a square. If it square, it is square,...


That holds true to one-piece units. The others, especially the ones that have sliding components, could start out being square and lose its squareness over time. 

So they need to be checked periodically.

But for most wood working it is not essential. The notable exceptions are squareness on a saw blade for glue line. And even that is not a problem if you use one side of the blade for one piece and the other side of the blade for the adjoining piece. Even if it were off by 2 degrees, the glue line would be perfect. 

I also agree, it feels good in the hand using quality tools. It puts me in a frame of mind to do careful work.


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## dws780 (Dec 2, 2016)

I think I’m going to try out a few cheaper square first before jumping into higher end brand like woodpecker.

Most of the woodworkers I follow on YouTube and Instagram uses Woodpecker so I just want to see what’s they hype about.

I love tools but just can’t afford all the nice ones lol 


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## Mikhail2400 (Jun 20, 2018)

I bought this 4 piece set of machinists squares from Grizzly and I love them. Use them every time im in the shop and if they are out any I havnt discovered it. Best part is the price.
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-4-pc-Machinist-s-Square-Set/H2993


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

John Smith_inFL said:


> a square (or any tool) is only as accurate as the person using it
> to perform the task for which it was designed for.
> 
> i.e.: marking perfectly square lines on a piece of wood . . . . .
> ...



Amen, brother Amem. This is especially true in woodworking where workers think they are in a high end machine shop.


George


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

dws780 said:


> I think I’m going to try out a few cheaper square first before jumping into higher end brand like woodpecker.
> 
> Most of the woodworkers I follow on YouTube and Instagram uses Woodpecker so I just want to see what’s they hype about.
> 
> ...



I have been doing woodworking for 40 years and have never even heard of Woodpecker before this time. It sure must be up in the stratosphere somewhere.


George


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

dws780 said:


> In the market for a 6” or 8” steel square.
> 
> Since I can’t justify paying for a woodpecker I was looking at the Empire one at Home Depot. Is it any good? I know it won’t be as good as woodpecker.
> Any recommendations on other brands?
> ...



There is more to a square than being square. I like a square that moves across the blade very smooth, and I like one that the body is an inch wide and the blade is 3/4 inch wide. I also like it to lock and unlock easy. Here is a 4" and a 6" that I have.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosme...m=151515185414&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosme...m=131336515755&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

I use the 4" square most of the time because it fits in my apron's pocket.


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## Onefreetexan (May 3, 2018)

I have several of that type of squares,, all over. 50 years old and still square, so easy to work with.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I have one of those 4 inch double squares. Its small size makes it so convenient and easy to use. I think that every woodworker should have one. Highly recommended!


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## NoThankyou (Mar 21, 2018)

How good is the square? Only you can tell.

1 ~ Pick the one that you want. 
2 ~ Check it against similar models of the same brand. If the square is not accurate, pick another and start at 1 again.
3 ~ Check the square against those of another brand or brands. If the square is accurate, congratulations.


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## DesertRatTom (Aug 14, 2012)

I was given a Stanley combination square about 60 years ago after a summer of apprenticing to a finish carpenter. Was not perfectly acurate, so I carefully cleaned all the stuff that had accumulate on it over the decades. Checked after cleaning with a draftsman's square and it was perfect again. Brings back a lot of fond memories every time I use it. I have a six incher that was not expensive, and is also perfectly square. I use it a lot.


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

John Smith_inFL said:


> ...so many people overthink the tools - compared to their skill set.
> 
> .
> 
> .


When I am trying to learn a new skill-set I always buy the best tools I can afford. My reasoning is this:

If I buy cheap tools, and my results are poor, is it because my poor skills, or is it because of the poor quality tools?

If I know that the tools are good, then I know that I have to work on my skills. If it is the tools that are at fault, I won't have the knowledge to pin point that as the problem. 

If you have a good teacher you can get away with cheap tools, but if you are learning on your own, you need quality equipment.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Yes, what he said ^, but ......*

There are so many variables, one piece tools, tools with moving parts, tools with motors, tools used to measure, levels, cutting tools, machining tools.... etc.


A simple square only needs to be square and the test is very easy. Register it to a line or edge, make a line, flip it, make another line close to the first, compare the results. The lines should be parallel.
How parallel? Close enough you that can't see any difference. 



Measuring pieces that have to fit together requires more precision, but that all depends whether they are wood and will be glued OR metal pieces that need to rotate. The tool must fit the application. A nice $100 Starrett square will be a family heirloom to be handed down, while a $10 Irwin won't be. You would be a lot more careful with the Starrett, than the Irwin and for good reason. You wouldn't want to drop either one, but especially the Starrett. :vs_cool:


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

*It's as good as you make it work...*



dws780 said:


> In the market for a 6” or 8” steel square.
> 
> Since I can’t justify paying for a woodpecker I was looking at the Empire one at Home Depot. Is it any good? I know it won’t be as good as woodpecker.
> Any recommendations on other brands?
> ...


Your "homedepot" square by "Empire" should be just fine...that's the quick answer...:grin:

Don't over think this...As George and John were alluding too...This is "wood working" and not "wood machining" (aka "machinist approach to woodworking.) 

Think of the history of the craft? Wood workers of the past made their own "squares" out of wood...not metal. Those wooden squares built most of the...*"wooden world"*...we see historically.

A metal square was the tool of a Master, and even then was often wood, just better built. I made my first squares and used them for years to build not only my furniture but my timber frames as well. I still use a "home made" squaring tool most often and only "bang around" with the metal ones for "visualizing" joinery I'm working on. Many of the young crafts people I help learn woodworking also make their own as well...

Lots of good info out on the net should wish to explore that option...

Good luck...:laugh2:


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## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

Mikhail2400 said:


> I bought this 4 piece set of machinists squares from Grizzly and I love them. Use them every time im in the shop and if they are out any I havnt discovered it. Best part is the price.
> https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-4-pc-Machinist-s-Square-Set/H2993


I have the same Grizzly set and have been using them for years. They are well worth the money. I also have a Woodpecker 9" square, that came with a beautiful display case! The Grizzly squares came in plastic bags in plain white recyclable cardboard boxes. The Grizzly squares are used all the time while the Woodpecker square is so pretty it should be hung on the wall :vs_laugh:. 

You can also make your own woodworking squares for under $1. Use the 3x4x5 dimensions for an accurate square. As many have mentioned, a square just has to be accurate. 

I have made a few squares for special situations. I will be making one soon that I will use to check if a cabinet is square after being glued up. It will be a 3'x4'x5' square that will sit on the outside of a cabinet. This will be faster than measuring across the diagonal, which is what I usually do. Hopefully, this large square will help me adjust the clamps during glue up to make sure the cabinet is perfectly square. After I finish gluing all the cabinets, I will disassemble the square, rather than storing it.

Eric


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## unburled (Mar 10, 2019)

Dollar Tree has 12" metal squares for $1


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

unburled said:


> Dollar Tree has 12" metal squares for $1



And they would probably work pretty well. But it would be blasphemy on here to some people to pay so little for a tool.


George


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## Ron_J (Sep 22, 2014)

John Smith_inFL said:


> a square (or any tool) is only as accurate as the person using it
> to perform the task for which it was designed for.
> 
> i.e.: marking perfectly square lines on a piece of wood . . . . .
> ...


I don't agree with this mentality at all. Errors compound...why not eliminate as many potential errors as possible?

For the record, I'm not saying that a $100 square is gong to produce a better product that a $10 square, but to say why worry about making a square line if you can't cut on the line is just wrong.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

John Smith_inFL said:


> a square (or any tool) is only as accurate as the person using it
> *Yes, but if a person has good eye to hand coordination, an inaccurate square would make an inaccurate cut in an otherwise perfection situation. Tony B*
> 
> i.e.: marking perfectly square lines on a piece of wood . . . . .
> ...


I agree a lot in what you are saying, however, some of us can actually cut on a perfect line whether square or not. As for those of us that cant, time and experience will bring most of them to the point of very real accuracy. 
As stated earlier, one does not need a $100 square, but one does need an accurate one. If someone wanted to make their own square, they can make a highly accurate one using the 3-4-5 method - providing they can cut on a straight line. Or, they can purchase a set of drafting triangles at a very reasonable price. 

Anyway, I just cant see sabotaging ourselves with an inaccurate square, or for that matter, an inaccurate tool, just because we are not YET capable of cutting a straight line.

Tony B


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## Packard (Jul 27, 2018)

A lot depends on what you are measuring. If you are cutting hand cut mortise and tenons, then you need very accurate measuring tools.

If you are cutting 2" x 8" lumber with a circular saw, than almost anything will be accurate enough.

I have a Starrett combination square and a General combination square. If I am doing construction work, I use the General, and I don't worry about mishandling the square. But for joinery, I use the Starrett and I handle it carefully.


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## unburled (Mar 10, 2019)

Packard said:


> A lot depends on what you are measuring.



Measuring/verifying an angle or a distance.


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## unburled (Mar 10, 2019)

Tony B said:


> the 3-4-5 method
> set of drafting triangles



or a construct a perpendicular with a compass
or a sheet of copy paper


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

unburled said:


> or a construct a perpendicular with a compass
> or a sheet of copy paper


Having spent many years in the printing trade I know not to trust a sheet of copy paper to have absolutely square corners.


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## unburled (Mar 10, 2019)

FrankC said:


> absolutely


absolutely


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