# Table disaster - ideas?



## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

Hi - I'm new to the forum, so apologies if I'm posting to the wrong place. I recently made a table out of red maple - it's roughly 7 feet long and 40" wide. Apparently (I'm guessing) the aged maple wasn't quite aged, because I just discovered a 1/4th in separation between the middle two boards (image below). Clearly it didn't glue well. I made a lot of mistakes. The wood was twisted (shouldn't have bought it) and I didn't have a jointer, so I did my best with a circular saw and straight edge. The other problem is that I didn't have clamps long enough to span the width of the table, so I relied on the pocket hole screws below the table to serve as the clamps to ensure contact between pieces. I don't think I have a prayer of getting the sides to reconnect, even if I bought 10 clamps (bending 20 inches of rigid wood probably won't happen), and now I'm not sure what to do. I thought about maybe finding some kind of dark-colored, self leveling wood filler and "pouring" it in, but I'm not sure such a thing exists. Any thoughts?


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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

A few more pics of the table:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Nice work and great color!*

OK there are at least 2 approaches I'd take depending...
!. If you can remove the end caps without destroying them or the planks and resaw using the circ saw and a straight edge, in between the planks, so you are removing a little 1/16", from each plank, that will act like a jointer. You may have to make several passes to get a straight parallel saw kerf in between them. A router will also work but it will result in a wider "kerf" than you want possibly. Then fill in between with a narrow strip maybe of a dark contrasting color, so that the "repair looks intentional. Or you can just reglue the planks back together as they were. 
2. If you can't remove the end caps, you can still use the same circ saw and straight edge as above , you'll just have to stop short and handsaw the rest. This is where the router will be a better choice since it can go right up to the end caps. Then fill with either a thin wood strip or use a dark epoxy fill. You need to clean out the old/new glue on the edges so the new glue or epoxy will hold. 
Obviously don't saw through your pocket screws!

By sawing the boards in place, or nested together, you will create a parallel joint even if the planks are slightly curved. 
A poor man's jointer so to speak.  bill


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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks Bill! I appreciate your response. An interesting idea, but it intimidates the heck out of me since I'd be afraid to destroy the whole thing (using routers for anything other than edging seems to be my nemesis). I definitely can't remove the end caps since they're glued on (and I did have clamps there). Plus, it would seem that when I get down to the lap joint I'd have a mess on my hands. Your recommendation is excellent, and I'm sure a more competent woodworker could pull it off, but I'm as green as they come and I was hoping for a less intrusive (aka fit for a woodworking incompetent) approach. Do you think I could do anything with any kind of woodfiller? I thought of taping the bottom to give me a seal, and then filling it with something, I'm just not sure what. I'd need it to be sort of self leveling since the gap is so wide (mainly in the middle), whatever I use will be visible.


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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

Bill - I just re-read your post and you mentioned "use a dark epoxy fill." Could I use this as a potential solution to simply fill in the gap as it stands (i.e. could it be the self-leveling solution I asked about above)?


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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

PS - the color was a mix of two stains -- 4 parts Minwax "Red oak," and one part "Sedona Red." but of course I also learned that it's not a good idea to stain soft maple - even with the pre-sealer (I still had a lot of blotching, etc.).


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*It could worK*

If you're not comfortable with any further "woodworking"
sawing or routing, then the next option would be filling. I'd want that groove as clean as possible for best adhesion. It may mean a hook shaped scraper found at auto supply stores or grind a flat file etc. Then, as you suggest tape on the bottom to seal it. I wouldn't do the whole gap in one step, rather several ....maybe 3 and on the final one stay below the surface. Tape the adjoining planks to prevent over fill. You may be able to pull it off and still have it look intentional. A dark color will look more like "gap" rather than filler. A caulk or wood filler may work and will be easier to work than epoxy as long as the joint is not joint to move. The epoxy was a way to secure the joint, but movement is still possible.

BTW A small hand held laminate trim router would be easier to control against a straight edge and then take incremental steps downward. But you'll have to decide on that.... bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

At the stage the top is in right now your options are pretty limited without dismantling. Using pocket screws likely aided in creating the void. Pocket screws don't apply 90 degree pressure as clamps and cauls would. My guess is that they pinched the bottom edges together which would cause the top edges to pull apart. Add to that the fact that the end caps are glued, which affected the cross grain movement of the planks.

IMO, filling the void with wood fill or epoxy would likely pull apart. As for the epoxy, filling level would present an uneven edge where the epoxy meets the two planks. That line would never feather out properly to look good. Trying to strike a straight line with the edges may or may not feel right compared to the wood surface next to them.

If you routed a straight line between them to inlay a solid wood strip, It may stay put. Another choice would be to use an epoxy gel to fill the gap, and then do a table top pour with a two part epoxy. You may not want that thick film look though.












 







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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Another idea*

You could use a hand plane like this from hands made for wood's thread. "moulding plane"
Since the idea of power tools seems intimdating, a simple hand plane registered against a straight edge would allow you to create a narrow parallel opening for either a contrasting strip or an epoxy fill. essentially cleaning out the existing gap. Not exactly like this, but similar:


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## shazapple (Jun 16, 2010)

I would router it out and glue a strip in there, or even leave the gap so it's like a picnic table. Either way, I would do it to all 3 joints to hide the oddness.


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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

*Thanks*

Guys - thanks a million for all of the ideas. I guess now I need to think through them. BTW - the reason the "power tool" thing bothers me with the table at this stage is that it means going through the finishing process again (at least for part of the table --and trying to get the stain to match), and I've had routers do crazy things on me. For example, I used a router to remove the material for the lap joint (probably a bad choice of tool, but I didn't have much of a choice other than 50 circular saw cuts for the long part of the table), and twice throughout the process it went crazy on me and bit into the wood and shot off in the wrong direction (I basically lost control of it for a second). Have you experienced that? The bit I was using looks kind of like this:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That's called a "climb" cut*

The router is being moved in the same direction as the cutter is rotating and "climbs" along the cutting path. The router should be pulled into the work rather than pushed into it. By pulling it toward you, you can resist any tendency to leap forward better than by pushing. JMO. Hand routers turn CW so, pull toward you from left to right.  bill

*EDIT: changed directions and words to remove confusion......*

There are occasions when a climb cut is OK, 'nother subject tho


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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

By the way, was it a design flaw to glue the end caps? Should I have made a frame from the outside 2 boards and the end caps, and then cut dados for the middle two boards, allowing them to float to compensate for the expansion and contraction of the wood? I blamed the wood not being thoroughly dried, but would this have happened regardless?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*End caps are not glued full length*

They are usually fastened in the center to allow the table planks to expand outward across their width. If the wood is bone dry and sealed both sides you may be able to get away with it, but it's unlikely. You have several things working against you, unfortunately because the over all look is great, design, finish, color, details....
Woodworking is also about "wood" as well as working. :yes: NTTBASA ..not trying to be a smart a** 
Let's be positive here and say you do nothing else except clean out the existing gaps and fill them with "something" that will look good and still expand and contract with the wood. A silicone based product caulk, adhesive, filler comes to mind. Do not get into refinishing the top surface by staying away with any tools fillers etc. Use a protective tape and lot of caution. JMO. bill


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## Porphyre (Jan 5, 2011)

dblodgett - I just wanted to chime in and say the table looks great! Sorry about the cracking, but the style and details look spot on. Considering it's solid wood (not some veneered product) I could see that easily selling for north of $1000 in a furniture store.

I hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction. The inlay idea sounds nice, but I'm not sure how it would work with the style of the table. Good luck!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> The router is being pushed/moved in the same direction as the cutter is rotating and "climbs" along the cutting path. The router should be pulled into the work rather than push into it. Hand routers turn CW so, pull toward you from right to left.  bill


I read this a few times and It sounds as though you have reversed the actions. When you say "The router is being pushed" it would be handheld. In that position, the bit is turning clockwise. Now, lets assume that the workpiece is in front of you, facing left to right, and you are profiling the edge closest to your body.

The router base would be on top of the wood, and the direction of the router would be from left to right...which is pushing or moving the router in the direction of the cut of the bit. IOW, you want the cutting edge to be fed into the wood.

That same scenario being if the router base was on top of the wood, and you moved it from right to left...in essence the backside of the cutting edge is fed into the work. That would be climb cutting.

In the diagram below, the drawing is for a table router setup. For a handheld, the router would be moved in the opposite stock feed direction of the arrows (since the wood would be stationary).
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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks again Bill for the advice - I'll try the center gluing technique next time. And I know that you're NTTBASA -- I totally get what you're saying, and appreciate your time. 

Porphyre - thanks for the feedback!

Cabinetman - thanks for the drawing - it perfectly illustrates the concept!

Dave-


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## PSDkevin (Dec 18, 2010)

Id also like to say it is a great looking table!!!!


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## Lloyd James (May 27, 2007)

This will sound like an odd way to fix a piece of furniture. I have made some custom toys and have added brass polished rounds to counter balance
or just add an ornamental effect. Using the router as mentioned above, make a slot to fit a piece of polished brass bar. I would make the slot go all 
way through so the brass piece can be shimmed if need be. I don't think you have to attach (glue) the bar to the wood. It could just be supported
below the table top. Brass would go well with your color stain. I had brass with Bloodwood, and it looks great.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A router plane?*

Non electric! This could work for your application:







* #271 Small Router Plane*

Price: $79.00



The *Lie Nielsen #271 Small Router Plane* was inspired by the Stanley 271 last made over 30 years ago. It features a robust 1/4˝ square blade sharpened to a razor edge. It is perfect for small relief and shallow mortise work. It is 4˝ x 2˝ and weighs approximately 17 ounces and is made of brass, steel and cast iron. Optional 3/32˝ square blade and 1/4˝ and 3/32˝pointed tip blades for inlay work will be available.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Non electric! This could work for your application:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm thinkin' he might have a problem making a straight pass without jimmying up some kind of guide. Since the table has a finish it could cause some scratching. JMO












 









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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*My thoughts also*



cabinetman said:


> I'm thinkin' he might have a problem making a straight pass without jimmying up some kind of guide. Since the table has a finish it could cause some scratching. JMO


I noticed there is no way to register or index it off a straight edge after I posted it.. That wouldn't stop me from sawing off one or both of the wings, however. So much for the $70.00 plane ....hmmm There's gotta be an easy way. Maybe just put a 1/4" hand chisel in a Stanley plane iron and screwing it down real good. I donno?  bill


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## Firewalker (Jan 3, 2011)

The other thread where this one got linked made me wonder what happened to that table? Have you worked on it yet? There are some creations I can appreciate and others that make me say...... "I want one of those in my dining room" The table you built would fall into the latter. The height and the heft of the materials as well as the finish is very much my style. 

Keep us posted on the end result. Best of luck and steady hands on fixing that beauty.

Thank you for sharing the images.

Scott


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Just wanted to chime in and agree that it's a great looking table. If you did that without a table saw and jointer, wow! Add those two tools to your shop and you'll be cranking out amazing pieces in no time.


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## Adillo303 (Dec 20, 2010)

First, I want to say that is definitely a great looking table. I am also a rank amateur in wood working. I understand what Bill is saying and, I understand the reluctance to mess things up with power tools. 

My question is this. Would it be possible to clamp a long piece of steel or straight wood to the table top and use the router with a guide bushing? It seems like that might act to keep the router under control. 

Also, just my 2¢ The contrasting color inlay would add visual interest and save you a lot of matching of stain colors. The inlay could be finished then placed.


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## dblodgett (Jan 10, 2009)

Adillo303 said:


> First, I want to say that is definitely a great looking table. I am also a rank amateur in wood working. I understand what Bill is saying and, I understand the reluctance to mess things up with power tools.
> 
> My question is this. Would it be possible to clamp a long piece of steel or straight wood to the table top and use the router with a guide bushing? It seems like that might act to keep the router under control.
> 
> Also, just my 2¢ The contrasting color inlay would add visual interest and save you a lot of matching of stain colors. The inlay could be finished then placed.


Thanks guys for all of the great comments and feedback. It's great to know that I'm not the only one that likes the look of the table -- kind of motivating  I've decided to let it continue drying out since some of the wood appears to still be shrinking. Then, I'm going to go with Bill's approach, man up, and route a 4-or-so inch strip that is, maybe 1/2 or so inch deep and put a dark inlay in there. I'll either fix the table or create more work. I suppose I can keep making the inlay bigger until I get it right. The two lessons I've learned is that moisture content meters are invaluable tools, and don't glie the breadboard ends the whole way down!

There's actually one thing I've been thinking about regarding the breadboard ends. If the table is 3.5 feet across, and we have to account for 1/8th inch of movement per foot of width, then you could wind up with a table center that is 7/16ths thinner than the breadboard ends! That's not a great look. And the thought occurred to me as I started seeing it happen on my table (the planks becoming smaller than the breadboard ends). An interesting problem, and not one I think there's a solution to..


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