# large lightweight door concept



## MitchelWB (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm currently remodeling my master bedroom and considering doing something unique with the closets.

I've got two standard, 5' wide, reach-in closets that are side by side. on a 17' long wall with about 24" of space between them. I currently have big, gold trimmed mirrored doors on both of them and my wife and I hate them. We've considered a couple different options. Bifold, french doors, even just new bypass doors. We have very clean lined, antique danish modern furniture to go in the room, and I was thinking about making my own custom doors for the closets. 

Basically, the idea is to get 2 96" bypass tracks and mount them above the closet door frames. Then build two large doors such that each door is 64-66" wide and will cover one whole closet at a time and will slide the entire length of the 17' wall. 

The biggest problem with this is how to create a large enough door, roughly 64"x86" that is lightweight enough that I can do it without having to buy industrial track that is going to run me 5 or 6 hundred bucks. 

One option I've come up with would be to use two standard hollow core, flush interior doors and join them together with stock (likely walnut to match the furniture) at the top and bottom as rails. 









I'm worried about the best way to join them though. If I put the two doors side to side with the lock blocks facing each other, glue the seam, clamp, pocket screws through the lock blocks, and then attach my rails at the top and bottom, is that sturdy enough to hold it all together? My main concern really is the wood used inside the doors. my experience is that they use pretty soft wood for that.

Any other ideas on ways to create a large, lightweight door like this?


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## bofa (Jul 17, 2010)

You sure you want to do that? I have sliding doors in my office and guest room and absolutely hate them. If you have the room consider double doors for each closet. It will look nicer and you can use the backs for storage. Standard sizes are in stock at most box stores and are fairly cheap, not to mention easy to install. Just a thought. Good luck otherwise.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Just a few questions*

Your desired height is 86", the standard interior hollow core doors are 6'8" or 78" high. You'll have to make up the difference in the endcaps or rails.

I assume you want to skin the doors in walnut, so you'll have 1/4" skins on both sides to prevent warping. By the time you've done all this why not just use 1/4 " ply for both sides to start with? You'll need 3 sheets of 4' x 8' walnut anyway to get your 66" wide dimension and 3 more to form the back side, but need not be walnut to save $$. The interior cores of hollow core door are sometimes nothing more than cardboard to make the torsion box effect by spacing out the 2 skins. You can build your own doors using the same technique, but you'll need a large flat space to work on.
I've made several large 8' x 8' double skinned sliding doors for an exterior storage space by separating the skins with 2 X's and on a grid and for the diagonals. You could certainly use 1 X's or less in a torsion box grid. 
It may be advantageous to make 2 separate doors for each opening, keeping them on the same track, and just "lock" them together with a mechanical device on the back side so that if you ever want to separate them you may. 
Just throwing out some ideas.  bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

*WELCOME TO THE FORUM*

Here's some thoughts. You can glue two hollow core doors together, and there you will have two doors together, with a vertical seam up the middle. What did you plan to do with the face?

To join:

You should pass the mating edges through the table saw to straightedge. The tops and bottoms should be also straightedged. You could just glue and clamp them together. Or if you are skilled, remove the interior wood from the two edges, and cut one piece that slips into both doors. You would need a large flat area to glue and clamp, or some sawhorses that you could level out.

In lieu of new wood to join, you could use tite joint fasteners like what's used to join countertops. For the track and hardware, there are different types of carriers, some mount from the back, some to the top edge, like trolleys. You would also need to modify the height of the doors if necessary. At the top, you would need to install some kind of valence to cover the top edge of the doors where they are suspended from the track.

As for the track, if you use two double tracks, there may be a "bump" where one door crosses over. If the far left and right walls are flat where the door closes, you can adjust the door to hit fairly flat. At the middle, one door will leave a gap due to its thickness. When closed, the rear door will show a gap (this gap would be from a supporting wall dividing the two closet openings, and the doors pass behind it.












 





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## MitchelWB (Sep 2, 2010)

Bofa: I'm really not 100% positive what I want to do yet. This is one idea that has come up. But until my wife gives final approval, nothing will happen. She has to sleep in there too. (and I'd like to continue sleeping in there!) Do you have a picture of what you're suggesting? All double doors I've seen are french doors with windows or standard 6 panel doors. All the doors in my house are flush. Yeah, they aren't the most appealing, but my wife is very OCD about things like that. She won't let me paint the trim in the bedroom unless I paint the trim in all the rooms. 

Woodnthings: I'm listening. Wasn't really planning to skin them. The reason I didn't plan to do plywood is because of the weight. Plus, it wouldn't be beefy enough to comfortably grab on to. If I did two 1/4" sheets with an inner frame, that would get awful heavy quickly. I do however love the idea of being able to separate them! If I did that, I could even put them on a single track. You'd never be able to access both closets 100% at the same time, but you wouldn't be able to if I did two large doors as bypass either. The way the wall is laid out, starting from the left to the right is: 10" from corner to first closet, then 5' (plus trim) for the first closet. 2' between closets, another 5' plus trim for the second closet, then about 15" of wall. Finally, there is a narrow full height door that goes all the way to the corner that is access to a small attic space. 

Cabinetman: I wasn't really concerned about the seam. with the seam created by the rails on top and bottom as well, I think it would look a little better than just a big flat smooth slab. They're also going to be stained pretty dark, so a seam like that will not stand out a whole lot. As for the track, I've found lots of options there. And I would build a facia on it to hide the track. I'm not sure I understand your final paragraph though.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

MitchelWB said:


> Cabinetman: I'm not sure I understand your final paragraph though.



What I referred to is the 2' area between the closets. Is it a 2' wall that is in line with the doors, and the doors will by pass behind it? If so, on a double track, the rear door would leave a visible gap to the wall when both doors are in the closed position.












 





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## MitchelWB (Sep 2, 2010)

The doors will pass over it, not behind it. I want to mount the doors outside the closets. And yeah, that is something I thought about. The outer door will sit off the wall by at least the thickness of the inner door plus a little space. But I think with the size of the doors and the wall, if we keep the outer door on the closet to the left, due to the way the room is laid out, it should be ok.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

You will still have the two double tracks butted. Whether there's a transition filler or not, I think there will still be a "bump" when a door passes by the connection.

And, since the assembly will be ahead of the wall, you'll certainly need a valence of some sort, or a boxed in header.












 





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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Ok I'm listening too*

You said:
Wasn't really planning to skin them. The reason I didn't plan to do plywood is because of the weight. Plus, it wouldn't be beefy enough to comfortably grab on to. If I did two 1/4" sheets with.......

Just how did you plan to finish them. With all the rails and edges seams and cross grain etc? Gonna look weird. I don't think you can get interior doors faced in walnut.. could be wrong,.... never have seen them.... So that's why I'm thinkin' skins. You could just start with a 3/4 walnut veneer ply wood as the front face then a 1/2 birch laminated on the back side. !/8" edges on all 4 sides. I don't think weight is as much of an issue as you do. Do you have a specific track and hangers in mind? You could use wood and make your own. Noise is a factor so you don't want metal rollers. 
You may want to valence the entire length to cover the track as an architectural element... a horizontal band instead of starting and stopping the valence over each door.
More food for thought... bill


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## bofa (Jul 17, 2010)

I hear ya there! If it exists outside my office or garage, she has veto (or put me on the couch) power. 

If you go to Lowes or HD and they don't have them in stock without panels, you can order them flush. You can even choose the hardware to match. It might be worth a shot to price it out. If you are feeling frisky, you could buy the flush doors (I know they have these in stock) and build out your own door frames. 

Like cman said the double tracks will take some depth and and the empty track look is not very appealing for me. Plus dirt/hair/etc builds up and wear and tear becomes apparent very quickly. For me, it get's a bit annoying when I can't have both sides open at the same time. Do you both get ready in the morning around the same time?


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## MitchelWB (Sep 2, 2010)

woodnthings: I suppose I just didn't think it would look that weird. A standard panel door has grains that go in different directions and it doesn't look weird. As for the veneer of the hollow core doors... like I said, they're going to be stained pretty dark, I just don't want to use pine for the top and bottom rails because I want some kind of grain to show. Since my dresser is walnut, I figured that would be a good way to go. I do kind of think I like the idea of the two laminated plywoods, that would definitely give it bulk though. We'd be talking about most of 4 sheets of plywood. That's not going to be light at all. I've seen plenty of different types of track, but haven't landed on any one yet. if the doors are heavier, I certainly have to go with a heavier track. Home Depot sells an 8' track for bypass doors, but it's fairly light duty. I think 150lbs total for both doors. since both doors will be on the same track often, I think it would be a little heavy if both were essentially 1 1/4" thick plywood.

bofa: I'll look in to the flush doors. part of what I like about the idea of covering the whole closet opening is that I can pull down the stadard trim and put in something a little smaller. Get rid of a little bit of the trim to give it a cleaner look. If I did it as surface mount bypass doors, because of where the closets are on the wall and the attic door that is on one end of the wall, I would be able to slide both doors clear to the right and have full access to all but maybe 6-12" tops of both closets. And honestly, I have 6 polos and two pairs of slacks that I wear with any regularity. Everything else in my closet is more occasional. my one suit, a couple hockey jerseys, a few jackets/coats etc.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

bofa said:


> You sure you want to do that? I have sliding doors in my office and guest room and absolutely hate them. If you have the room consider double doors for each closet. It will look nicer and you can use the backs for storage. Standard sizes are in stock at most box stores and are fairly cheap, not to mention easy to install. Just a thought. Good luck otherwise.


I am with you. I have these sliding doors in a condo that I rent out. They are a pain and I do not like them. As soon as I have the time I am going to replace then with two regular doors. Two doors on each closet.

Those hanging/sliding doors are always banging into each other. They always cover at least half of the closet. If you want to look in the other side of the closet you then have to slide both doors out of the way. They do not like to stay on the tracks. 


I have also got rid of bifold doord in my house. Replaced then with regular doors.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*OK we're gonna disagree here*

You said: ....Then build two large doors such that each door is 64-66" wide and will cover one whole closet at a time and will slide the entire length of the 17' wall...... and:
woodnthings: I suppose I just didn't think it would look that weird. A standard panel door has grains that go in different directions and it doesn't look weird. As for the veneer of the hollow core doors... like I said, they're going to be stained pretty dark, good way to go.

I'm thinkin' 4 - 33" wide slab doors, from plywood laminated, on one track, 17 ft long, independently sliding to cover both the openings, none or any combination. This would be a clean look if done in stained walnut ply, no seams no grain changes only vertical grain. A standard panel door has the grain in both horizontal and vertical directions because of the construction and the offset in the surfaces and doesn't look pieced together or weird. However a slab door with grain running horizontal and vertical on the same plane will look strange, in my opinion. The Danish modern look is all about clean lines. I think the doors should be as unobtrusive as possible but compliment the colors and lines of the furniture. JMO  bill


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## MitchelWB (Sep 2, 2010)

woodnthings said:


> I'm thinkin' 4 - 33" wide slab doors, from plywood laminated, on one track, 17 ft long, independently sliding to cover both the openings, none or any combination. This would be a clean look if done in stained walnut ply, no seams no grain changes only vertical grain.


I'm kinda liking this idea. And really, if I went with a 3/4" ply, I suppose there's no real reason why I would need it to be any thicker. That would allow me to use a narrower track if I wanted. (assuming I can find a narrower track. Or, if I wanted it to be thicker, there's no reason a 1x2 couldn't be added to the back of the plywood (adds edge thickness without so much additional weight/cost). I could even use some larger stock with a dado to create a small edge around the door that would match my dresser well. But now I'm sitting at work and don't have sketchup here to draw it out!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> This would be a clean look if done in stained walnut ply, no seams no grain changes only vertical grain. bill



Have you priced Walnut ply recently?












 





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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Well, since you asked...*



cabinetman said:


> Have you priced Walnut ply recently? .


Right here in Lower Michigan it's at $114.00 per 4 x 8 panel.
Kinda around what I was thinkin' my guess was about $130.00.
I suppose one could use another species and stain it walnut if price were a huge issue, but the results wouldn't be as good IMO. :no: bill


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## bofa (Jul 17, 2010)

You might be straying from the lightweight part a bit. These doors will be close to 50 lbs each finished, maybe more depending on the hardware and number of finish coats.


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## MitchelWB (Sep 2, 2010)

Yeah, I agree. But nobody likes my hollow core door idea either  I can always beef up the track I'm using and get something stronger. It's not hard to find bypass track that handles hundreds of pounds of door, so it shouldn't be too tough. 

And my options are still wide open anyway. This weekends project is to paint and build the organizer for at least one, if not both closets. for all I know, my wife may find a set of curtains she likes and decides she wants to go that way instead. 

To be honest, I don't really care so much what the room ends up as. I mean, I want it to be nice, but most of all, I want it to be comforting and soothing to her. Anything I can do to maximize the restfulness she gets in the room is fine by me - except me moving to the spare bedroom! I just go there to sleep.. she's the one I want to spoil.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

MitchelWB said:


> Yeah, I agree. But nobody likes my hollow core door idea either



Actually the hollow core door is a pretty good idea for a few reasons. They are light and cheap. The heavier the door the harder it will be to move. Many track assemblies are versatile enough to use ¾" and thicker doors. Hollow core interior doors are 1⅜".

An alternative to using a hardwood plywood, you could pick up door skins, which are a one piece veneered substrate usually a bit thinner than ⅛". There is a selection of veneers that would work. They are a whole lot cheaper than hardwood plywood.

The last time I bought some skins, I got them at a lumberyard. They were 36"x84" in Red Oak, for around $10. I used them to veneer cabinets because they were cheaper than .062 veneer. Just something for you to think about.












 





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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

bofa said:


> You sure you want to do that? I have sliding doors in my office and guest room and absolutely hate them.


ROTFLMAO! :laughing:

bofa, You are quoting my mind..... You just type quicker than I do.

Mitchel,
Besides the tracks and hangers you should use some floor guides but it is not absolutely necessary. (We've survived in this house for 30+ years without the guides.  )

My suggestion would be to combine two projects into one. Think of crown molding for the MBR. Think of a shelf and fascia to mount both the door support tracks and the crown molding. When you reach the adjacent walls, the crown molding connects normally and is made as if the room is 6" narrower. Make your doors floor to ceiling. You could make the doors slide along the entire wall but that would depend upon how you use the room, furniture, other doors, windows, etc.

If you are a glutton for punishment, you could get into the space above the current closets and make a bunch of shelves. But I don't know what is behind the wall.


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## MitchelWB (Sep 2, 2010)

Just because I think it might be helpful to see the wall. This isn't the greatest picture, the color is terrible, it doesn't even show the whole wall, ignore the mess, and please, please, please don't tell my wife I posted it! 


You can see both closet doors. On the far right of the wall is the small attic access door. to the left of the left door is another 10" of wall. There really isn't anything else to get in the way. I could open up the wall above the closets, but it wouldn't really get me much, the slope of the roof already chops off the top rear corner of the closets. I'm not sure I can really describe it... pictures would do it a 1000 times better, but I don't have any of that particular "feature". But trust me, it wouldn't be worth the work.

Also, I was at home depot last night and was looking at the door hanger hardware they have. It was $22 for an 8' track that came with 4 rollers and was designed for 2 doors each up to 60lbs. I looked at the name on it and now I've totally spaced it off. I can't find them on the Home Depot site at all, so I'll have to look again when I go to pick up some paint.


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