# Diy kitchen cabinet finishing



## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

I have personally installed unfinished oak cabinets from lowes in my remodeled home. I'm not a professional but most sections are pretty tight. I've been reading for several weeks and after a trip to sherwin Williams I have began to doubt my initial decision to lacquer. I have not finished the kitchen or dining room paint nor laid the floor. So overspray isn't a large concern. I own an airless sprayer. 

What I want. I like the hidden grain clean contemporary black look... And my sherwin Williams guy assured me he couldn't make black lacquer which i thought was odd and tried shoving oil based paint down my throat. Would someone advise me the best route to take to make my cabinets last and look great ?!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

We have an introduction section where you can say a few words about yourself. If you fill out your profile in your "User Control Panel", you can list any hobbies, experience or other facts. You can also list your general geographical location which would be a help in answering some questions.

It's a whole lot easier to do finishing on uninstalled cabinets. I would do a test with spraying a black aniline dye (alcohol based). It could be called "lamp black". It can be topcoated with most film finishes, and I would suggest a waterbased polyurethane.

















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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> I have personally installed unfinished oak cabinets from lowes in my remodeled home. I'm not a professional but most sections are pretty tight. I've been reading for several weeks and after a trip to sherwin Williams I have began to doubt my initial decision to lacquer. I have not finished the kitchen or dining room paint nor laid the floor. So overspray isn't a large concern. I own an airless sprayer.
> 
> What I want. I like the hidden grain clean contemporary black look... And my sherwin Williams guy assured me he couldn't make black lacquer which i thought was odd and tried shoving oil based paint down my throat. Would someone advise me the best route to take to make my cabinets last and look great ?!


The problem with many paint stores including sherwin williams is they cater to the homeowner and a black lacquer is more of a industrial finish. Sherwin Williams makes a lacquer you could use and they could special order it for you. Google Opex Production Lacquer. It would be a lot easier for you to work with however at the end of the day the oil based enamel would be a better product. The production lacquer is a nitrocellulose lacquer which isn't very water resistant. If for example water was allowed to drip down the front of your sink after a year or so the finish would start pealing in spots. A better lacquer for what you doing would be a waterborne lacquer, Kem Aqua Pigmented Lacquer from Sherwin Williams. Another enamel you could use is their quick dry enamel. It is a solvent based enamel thinned with toluene that would dry to touch in a hour or so. I have forgotten the name of Sherwin Williams quick dry. In the 1990's I painted aluminum patio furniture and street lights with their enamel and it held up well.


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm not sure you will be happy with the look of black oak unless you use some type of wood filler. Oak has so much open grain it just doesn't give a smooth finish. I would use cabinetman's suggestion and go with a black dye and poly top coat.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

well i wish i could see my cabinets fully painted in various ways so i could pick the way that looks best after the fact... but i cannot. Thats why im imploring you experts! MY background is diverse and not specific in any natures, if its broke i can fix it if its finish work i usually have enough skill to make it look ok. My painting skills have grown a bit and i think im pretty good at that. With that said there are some minor PAPER thin grooves on the face frames of the cabinets in places i havent tried sanding yet but its not PERFECT.

after its all said in done i want a rock solid product thats going to look great and hold up be washable etc.. and me not FLOP and have to (heaven forbid) resand everything back to bare wood and start all over.

Ive never used a grain filler is that a special product or would wood filler do the trick? Sounds like alot of extra work. but if it has to be done i would definitely do it to achieve what i want to achieve.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gabe4182 said:


> Ive never used a grain filler is that a special product or would wood filler do the trick? Sounds like alot of extra work. but if it has to be done i would definitely do it to achieve what i want to achieve.


Do not confuse the two different types of products. "Grain filler"...AKA "paste wood filler", is used for filling the grain and pores of wood prior to applying the finish.

"Wood filler", or "Wood Putty" is used to fill holes and do repairs to wood. It's not to be used as a grain filler.


















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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

so cabinet man you think the best thing to do is buy the powder analine dye mix it with alcohol brush it on, then spray poly over the top? that will be easy / durable finish and have a nice look also? ive never messed with any dyes or such... not that i cant its just foreign to me at the moment. I am a quick learner


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> well i wish i could see my cabinets fully painted in various ways so i could pick the way that looks best after the fact... but i cannot. Thats why im imploring you experts! MY background is diverse and not specific in any natures, if its broke i can fix it if its finish work i usually have enough skill to make it look ok. My painting skills have grown a bit and i think im pretty good at that. With that said there are some minor PAPER thin grooves on the face frames of the cabinets in places i havent tried sanding yet but its not PERFECT.
> 
> after its all said in done i want a rock solid product thats going to look great and hold up be washable etc.. and me not FLOP and have to (heaven forbid) resand everything back to bare wood and start all over.
> 
> Ive never used a grain filler is that a special product or would wood filler do the trick? Sounds like alot of extra work. but if it has to be done i would definitely do it to achieve what i want to achieve.


If you wish to use grain filler it is a little extra work but not overwhelming. What it would be like is smearing drywall mud on the cabinets and then wiping it off with a rag. It wouldn't take that long. What I use is a oil based grain filler. It stays moist longer than the water based grain filler. You brush the grain filler on like stain in the direction of the grain and let it thicken a little and then either squeege the excess off with a squeege like you clean the windshield of your car or you can rub the excess off with a rag rubbing in a circular motion. Let the grain filler dry and what little is left on the surface sand level. Then the wood could be stained or painted. On stained wood it would be best to use a grain filler that was tinted close to the color stain you are using. A natural grain filler can also be tinted to your needs if you can't find one the color you need.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> If you wish to use grain filler it is a little extra work but not overwhelming. What it would be like is smearing drywall mud on the cabinets and then wiping it off with a rag. It wouldn't take that long. What I use is a oil based grain filler. It stays moist longer than the water based grain filler. You brush the grain filler on like stain in the direction of the grain and let it thicken a little and then either squeege the excess off with a squeege like you clean the windshield of your car or you can rub the excess off with a rag rubbing in a circular motion. Let the grain filler dry and what little is left on the surface sand level. Then the wood could be stained or painted. On stained wood it would be best to use a grain filler that was tinted close to the color stain you are using. A natural grain filler can also be tinted to your needs if you can't find one the color you need.


I call the type of filler "solvent based" instead of oil base. The other type would be "waterbased" Most directions suggest to rub the paste cross grain and then long grain with a rag like burlap, for best results. For whichever brand you use follow the directions on the product.

















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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

OP before you start on your cabinets why don't you just get a few extra pieces of oak and do some test finishes. You can try various types to see what you like the best. Then you can use that system on your cabinets.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

So alcohol die and water based poly, or grain filler and paint or lacquer. Someone suggested oil based pro enamel from s&w ... What about conversion varnish?

That would cost a lot of money to get a sample of all of those and test wood lol


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gabe4182 said:


> So alcohol die and water based poly, or grain filler and paint or lacquer. Someone suggested oil based pro enamel from s&w ... What about conversion varnish?
> 
> That would cost a lot of money to get a sample of all of those and test wood lol


If you were to spray oil base poly, or any oil base product, the likelihood for the finish to run is high. It's a heavy bodied finish that stays wet a long time... long enough for all kinds of dust and little critters to land on it. It would be difficult to get a good finish spraying the cabinets in place. 

If you want an oil base finish, it will impart an amber tone. For that media, I would suggest using a wiping version. Another drawback is that it will stink pretty bad for a long time after it seems dry.

That's why I suggested a WB poly. It dries fast, easy clean-up, and very low odor.

















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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

I never wanted to mess with oil but a feel simple were trying to push me that way. That's what interested me about the lacquer and my dad recently used his airless sprayer on clear lacquer as a finish to his stained cabinets. Is the alkaline die method gonna be a smooth finish like most poly? But I've been told the wb lacquer is a special order product and the guy says he can't assure a solid black in any of his lacquer. 


So sorry if this is hard to follow I'm driving home. :/

So if I use lacquer on oak I have to grain fill it but the wb poly I do not ? Isn't that the stuff they finish floors with also?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gabe4182 said:


> I never wanted to mess with oil but a feel simple were trying to push me that way. That's what interested me about the lacquer and my dad recently used his airless sprayer on clear lacquer as a finish to his stained cabinets. Is the alkaline die method gonna be a smooth finish like most poly? But I've been told the wb lacquer is a special order product and the guy says he can't assure a solid black in any of his lacquer.
> 
> 
> So sorry if this is hard to follow I'm driving home. :/
> ...


Grain filling is your option either way. You can do it or not with either media.

















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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

Ok so in your opinion which yields the best finish total package ! I know oak is fairly pourous and I'm not a big fan of the grain showing ... And in the future consideration of getting married and having to paint the cabinets to a womans preference opposed to just mine

Although for post makest feel rather hard to please lol but u just want to ensure I am pleased with my work and investment both time and money


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gabe4182 said:


> Ok so in your opinion which yields the best finish total package ! I know oak is fairly pourous and I'm not a big fan of the grain showing ... And in the future consideration of getting married and having to paint the cabinets to a womans preference opposed to just mine
> 
> Although for post makest feel rather hard to please lol but u just want to ensure I am pleased with my work and investment both time and money


I can't tell you what you'll like the best. Personally, I like a finished wood that still has the look and feel of wood.

















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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

You are doing black and oak is oak. Pick up a board from HD, it wont cost much and you can see what the cabinets will look like with the different finishes. You can do small test sections and see what you will be dealing with. Just makes sense to me.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> I never wanted to mess with oil but a feel simple were trying to push me that way. That's what interested me about the lacquer and my dad recently used his airless sprayer on clear lacquer as a finish to his stained cabinets. Is the alkaline die method gonna be a smooth finish like most poly? But I've been told the wb lacquer is a special order product and the guy says he can't assure a solid black in any of his lacquer.
> 
> 
> So sorry if this is hard to follow I'm driving home. :/
> ...


It would probably be best to fill the grain on some scrap oak and finish it and likewise finish a piece of wood with the grain showing and see which you like the best. Generally the grain isn't filled on oak however going black I personally would like it filled better. 

The dye is just for the color. It won't affect the smoothness of the finish. The dye would be under the finish.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

The cabinets I have I can pick up a few filler pieces and do some test samples

I'm on my phone no clue how that got posted upside down sorry


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Was making me dizzy...
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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I call the type of filler "solvent based" instead of oil base. The other type would be "waterbased" Most directions suggest to rub the paste cross grain and then long grain with a rag like burlap, for best results. For whichever brand you use follow the directions on the product.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I call that type grain filler oil based because the linseed oil is the primary binder. The only difference between that type grain filler and wood stain is the solids. 

That would be a bad practice to rub the grain filler with the grain. It would tend to remove the filler from the grain counteracting the purpose of filling the grain. If at all possible I prefer to use a rubber squeegee rather than a rag but since not all surfaces are flat rags are necessary in places.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

Oh and I had planned on making an island with beadboard that will require a finish as well thanks cabinetman!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> I call that type grain filler oil based because the linseed oil is the primary binder. The only difference between that type grain filler and wood stain is the solids.
> 
> That would be a bad practice to rub the grain filler with the grain. It would tend to remove the filler from the grain counteracting the purpose of filling the grain. If at all possible I prefer to use a rubber squeegee rather than a rag but since not all surfaces are flat rags are necessary in places.


This is what I use. For whatever product you use...read the directions. :yes: Most fillers have similar directions.

















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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

Effectively ive found nowhere locally to buy aniline dye, and a place online that sales 1 gallon for 60 bucks? So, question is, would buying tinted grain filler BLACK and getting a lacquer tinted as dark as possible, would that make a good finish? I hate this i wish someone would just show me some samples of black finished wood in person and then give me the script on how to replicate it.. haha


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gabe4182 said:


> Effectively ive found nowhere locally to buy aniline dye, and a place online that sales 1 gallon for 60 bucks? So, question is, would buying tinted grain filler BLACK and getting a lacquer tinted as dark as possible, would that make a good finish? I hate this i wish someone would just show me some samples of black finished wood in person and then give me the script on how to replicate it.. haha


You have a few choices. The dye can be available as an NGR dye stain pre-mixed. It's alcohol based. Or, you could make a mix of oil based black enamel and mineral spirits, diluted at least 50/50 or more...to get the penetration. I would use that as a wipe on. You could use a universal tint in your topcoat. It all depends on how black you want it. You should try some samples before you do the project. Spraying any oil base finish inside will produce airborne overspray that will get on EVERYTHING. It would be one sticky mess.

















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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> This is what I use. For whatever product you use...read the directions. :yes: Most fillers have similar directions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You misinterpreted the directions. It doesn't really say how to rub the grain filler with the burlap. It does say pad with grain but that refers to a final sanding after the filler has dried. Many years ago I tried burlap and it wasn't near absorbent as it needed to be an left a lot of the grain filler on the surface. I've had better luck with just common stain rags. 

The company that made the grain filler I first used is no longer in business. It was Star Finishing Products. At the time a technical advisor from the company came to my shop and instructed me on how to use the product. The way it was instructed to me worked so I feel no reason to change. Since then Mohawk Finishing Products bought out Star so I have continued to use their grain filler. In their instructions is says after rubbing across the grain wipe lightly with the grain but I have done this to keep from having streaks of residue crossing the grain and it removed filler from the grain causing me to have to fill the grain again. I've found it's easier if this happens just to sand this residue off.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> Effectively ive found nowhere locally to buy aniline dye, and a place online that sales 1 gallon for 60 bucks? So, question is, would buying tinted grain filler BLACK and getting a lacquer tinted as dark as possible, would that make a good finish? I hate this i wish someone would just show me some samples of black finished wood in person and then give me the script on how to replicate it.. haha


I normally use Mohawk dyes because I can get is locally. It appears to be forbidding to order it since they have a minimum order of 5 gallons and 32 oz in powder form. Since you are looking for black you just make your own out of India Ink thinning it with alcohol. The aniline dye is more similar to ink anyway. Another option is Transtint dye. It is available in many places and can be mixed with alcohol as well as water. Having grain filler tinted black won't be enough. The wood would end up more gray than black when you wipe it off.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> In their instructions is says after rubbing across the grain wipe lightly with the grain but I have done this to keep from having streaks of residue crossing the grain and it removed filler from the grain causing me to have to fill the grain again. I've found it's easier if this happens just to sand this residue off.


That's the point I was making. The directions usually state to wipe cross grain first. This forces the filler into the pores.









 





 
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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

There is a standard furniture finish where oak is painted black with the grain showing, not everyone likes it but there are a lot of people who love it. It doesn't allow the figure of the wood to show but the grain texture does. I have done that finish with Sherwin Williams products at a furniture manufacturer. We used SW Black primer surfacer P61B1 , scuffed down with 320 grit sandpaper being careful not to burn through the color and top coated with either Opex lacquers or you could even apply a clear coating over the black. If it was my kitchen and I had to spray it on site I would probably go with Conversion Varnish. It is the most durable cost effective finish available today. I would seal with a vinyl sealer tinted black and top coat with clear CV in the sheen you prefer. MAKE SURE YOU USE A RESPIRATOR, preferably a full face type as CV is pretty nasty to spray without a booth. 

Lacquer was used on cabinets for many years and is very easy to touch up. 

Also you could use an India Ink and either spray or wipe on to get a very deep black and then use a clear sealer and top coat.

I also highly recommend the creation of samples first, you don't want to find out you don't like the finish after doing the entire kitchen! The Importance of making samples


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

What size tip for my airless sprayer for cv? Paint schedule would be putty, sand, tack , tinted vinyl sealer, light sand , 2 coats wet wet sand between tinted, then final clear coat?

How hard is that stuff to mix as I assume it won't be catalyzed when I special order it. Do a test run on spare oak filler pieces if I have an issue I'll post then?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> That's the point I was making. The directions usually state to wipe cross grain first. This forces the filler into the pores.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By rubbing the grain filler in a circular motion you end up rubbing it across the grain. It's the rubbing it with the grain I take exception to. I had to stop doing that because it removed much of the filler from the grain and I either had to use the filler again or additional sealer. I think I also misinterpreted the direction on your filler. Pading with the grain may have also meant to wad a rag in a tight ball and lightly wipe with the grain with the rag slightly damp with a solvent. I was just instructed to pad sand a filler after it dried and picked up on the word pad. I don't like the procedure but this is recommended by Mohawk.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

Ok, from extensive shopping ive learned the only FINISH i can actually buy without having to order and wait 1-2 weeks is the lacquer.

That being said, I bought some aerosol cans of different things including a vinyl autobody primer, shellac, and lacquer. I liked the look of the shellac base best on some scrap oak panels.

Im thinking that i might like it even better if i filled the grain first. So can i get some help with my paint schedule? i need to write this down so when i get excited i wont mess up a step lol.

1 - Raise the grain on my current cabinets and give them a good sanding 220g?
2 - Apply Grain filler remove excess
3 - Sand 320 g
4 - Lacquer primer tinted as dark grey as they can make
5 - Sand 320 g
6 -lacquer Tint black
7 - Sand 400g
8 - 2nd Coat
9 - sand 400g
10 Last coat

Did i miss anything? or anythign need to be addressed?

Thanks all for dealing with my over analytically posting while driving on my cell phone incoherent self! But you dont know until youve actually done something once.

ALSO! my pops said he would buy a Cup HVLP gun if i needed cuz he wouldn't mind having one. Or would it be just the same to use the AIRLESS with .009 tip?

I will definitely be spraying a test go round on scrap wood ensure my spraying rust is dusted off

Thanks again!

Gabe


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

What you have looks alright but you can't really set up an organized schedule. Finishing is as much art as science. You kind of have to alter your schedule for each project. After filling the grain once you start with primer you will undoubtedly find defects in the wood you didn't know were there. Sometimes you end up puttying and sanding the wood after the first coat. Anyway it might take more or less primer than you think. You just have to keep working the primer until you have the project free of defects. Then proceed with the topcoat. 

As far as your supplies, I would refrain from using the automotive paint on wood. It might or might not work. Generally automotive paints are formulated to be used on metal. Metal doesn't expand and contract as much as wood and paint formulated for metal may crack when the wood expands. It's just a gamble as some automotive finishes will move with the wood and the store won't know which one will. Wood finishes are generally formulated to be more elastic. Sherwin Williams sells a lacquer primer that works well. It is called Bushwacker. I believe it only comes in white but could probably be tinted to a dark gray. You can use shellac with lacquer but it doesn't have as much solids as a primer so it would take a lot more elbow grease to do what you want.


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

If you have the air compressor to handle the HVLP spray gun I would definitely go that route. You will have much better control and a lot less overspray with the HVLP then an airless setup.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

I only used the auto primer jn the can to simulate the primered sample.

How many gAl of grain filler and primer and lacquer will I need ?

25 linear foot if cabinets


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> I only used the auto primer jn the can to simulate the primered sample.
> 
> How many gAl of grain filler and primer and lacquer will I need ?
> 
> 25 linear foot if cabinets


Everybodies equipment is different and the airless will use more materials than other sprayers. I use a cup gun to use grain filler so that would be really difficult to figure brushing it. I sure wouldn't run that through your airless. I could do 25 linear feet of bases and uppers with a quart because you are just doing the faces and doors. Brushing it you might need two quarts. The Mohawk grain filler I use is really thick in the can and has to be thinned quite a bit. Using an airless you probably would use three gallons if you also prime the inside. If it isn't too far to get some more you might start with two gallons and if need some more go back to the store. Two gallons of paint should be enough for two coats.


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## Dragynne (Jan 23, 2014)

*Black color for cabinet finishing suggestion*

Been working my own remodel, probably using similar cabinetry from one of those big home-improvement warehouse places, and our unfinished oak surfaces got the water-based polyurethane treatment: several light layers, fine sanding blocks, and steel wool. They look and feel marvelous for the hours I invested.

I had a thought to use some narrow mirror pieces to create a folding screen, and poured off some of the polyurethane into a smaller can to test my "tint." I used black oxide powder (source: www.coastalscents.com). Let me take a picture or two of the sample I coated tonight - the remodel is ongoing, though completion is near!

No, I've not created the folding screen - missing a table saw for the project, and a suitable indoor space.


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## jpr28056 (Jan 23, 2010)

Gabe4182 said:


> Effectively ive found nowhere locally to buy aniline dye, and a place online that sales 1 gallon for 60 bucks? So, question is, would buying tinted grain filler BLACK and getting a lacquer tinted as dark as possible, would that make a good finish? I hate this i wish someone would just show me some samples of black finished wood in person and then give me the script on how to replicate it.. haha


Woodcraft in Charlotte should have aniline dye.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Get a can of this and try it*

Should be readily available at Home Depot or other hardwares;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Rust-Ol...3?pt=Paint_Paint_Supplies&hash=item27d534337b


*Product Features and Specs*

Rust-Oleum 1905830 Lacquer 11-Ounce Gloss Spray Paint, Black Rust-Oleum Specialty Lacquer Spray adds an ultra-hard, factory-like finish to furniture and accessories. Apply to wood, metal, plaster, masonry or unglazed ceramic. Hardens to high luster. Rust-Oleum 1905830 Lacquer 11-Ounce Gloss Spray Paint, Black Features: Professional high luster look popular on furniture and accessories Fast-curing formula hardens faster than regular paints Provides an ultra-rich, ultra-hard, factory-like finish on wood, metal, and more Smooth, fast-dry formula can be polished to an even higher level of gloss rosol spray lacquer Gloss Black 11-Ounce.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks Dragy id love to see those pics,

Ill check that place out JPR!

Steve What wood grain filler are you refering to, the stuff i thought i was supposed to use for grain filler was real slimy looking stuff like jello almost consistency?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> Thanks Dragy id love to see those pics,
> 
> Ill check that place out JPR!
> 
> Steve What wood grain filler are you refering to, the stuff i thought i was supposed to use for grain filler was real slimy looking stuff like jello almost consistency?


Well when mixed the grain filler is slightly thicker than enamel paint for brushing. In the can it is usually thicker than wood putty and needs to be thinned with mineral spirits or naphtha. The naphtha just makes it set up faster as it is a faster drying solvent. When you open a new can of any grain filler be sure to stir the mixture all the way to the bottom of the can. It separates with the solids going to the bottom and the binder and solvents going to the top. Mix only what you intend to use. What is left over the solids will harden in the bottom of the container and are very labor intensive to get stirred again. 

This is the grain filler I use. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=105


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

Man i just had the worst experience of my life, lol. I finally found a store locally called Hunter Paint and Coatings in charlotte. They carried Aniline dye but not the color i wanted... and wasnt sure as to the method that a few members suggested on here and steered me towards their waterborne Lacquer finally sold me 2 gallons of Acylic deep tint Primer and 2 gallons of waterborne lacquer..THis all took an amazing 2-3 hours at the store. I get home from my 1 hour ride and look in the box and this dude sent me tinted Waterborne Varnish.. im so confused is this stuff gonna work or did i just get hoodooed? 75 dollars a gallon, 33 for the primer.


http://www.fuhrindustrial.com/inter...r-varnish/item/380-water-clear-varnish-2.html

Will this still work? i bet they wont take it back


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> Man i just had the worst experience of my life, lol. I finally found a store locally called Hunter Paint and Coatings in charlotte. They carried Aniline dye but not the color i wanted... and wasnt sure as to the method that a few members suggested on here and steered me towards their waterborne Lacquer finally sold me 2 gallons of Acylic deep tint Primer and 2 gallons of waterborne lacquer..THis all took an amazing 2-3 hours at the store. I get home from my 1 hour ride and look in the box and this dude sent me tinted Waterborne Varnish.. im so confused is this stuff gonna work or did i just get hoodooed? 75 dollars a gallon, 33 for the primer.
> 
> 
> http://www.fuhrindustrial.com/inter...r-varnish/item/380-water-clear-varnish-2.html
> ...


The water based varnish is probably better than the water based lacquer. If it is compatible with the primer it should work fine. 

Are you still painting the cabinets black? If so you really don't need a dye but a substitute for the black dye is India ink.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

welll im about fed up with all this researching and mystery i might just say screw it and roll with it lol.. the primer is Aqua Lock plus 100% acrylic water base with 8 oz of black dye so its grey, and the black varnish in satin, i might just spray it and live with it it doesnt HAVE to be jet black but really dark would be nice. says 34% solids if that means anything


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I haven't used those products so I can't say if they are compatable or not. It probably is since you bought them both together for one project. The 34% solids is pretty good. It will build the thickness of the finish quicker and if need be fill the grain.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

thanks all who have helped im going to just nuckle up and try it out tomorrow, only part im weirded out about i have a peice of crown molding on a 12 inch cabinet that isnt just perfectly flush and infact has a gap of 1/4-1/8 inch of a gap from that and the upper cabinet facing.

Should i caulk the giant gap and then prime and continue? or try to wood putty it akwardly?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Gabe4182 said:


> thanks all who have helped im going to just nuckle up and try it out tomorrow, only part im weirded out about i have a peice of crown molding on a 12 inch cabinet that isnt just perfectly flush and infact has a gap of 1/4-1/8 inch of a gap from that and the upper cabinet facing.
> 
> Should i caulk the giant gap and then prime and continue? or try to wood putty it akwardly?


 If the gap was between the crown and the ceiling I would be inclined to caulk it. Since it is at the cabinet I believe I would mask off the cabinet and crown and fill it with bondo. If the bondo is fresh you will have difficulty keeping it from running out but I think it would be worth the trouble. After it dries you can use a utility knife or a sharp chisel to get it shaped so it won't take so much sanding.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

Ok well I wish i would have known how long the taping process was going totals so I coulda just ended my life early... Lol but on a positive note I've applied two coats of the tinted primer will try to finish tomorrow. Bad news is I didn't notice but apparently my hitachi pancake 6 gal compressor at 3.8 cfm isn't enough to effectively run my hvlp gun had to do a lot of waiting ... Maybe I'll rent one tomorrow to start the doors and stuff. Will post pictures if anyone wants to see the end result


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gabe4182 said:


> Ok well I wish i would have known how long the taping process was going totals so I coulda just ended my life early... Lol but on a positive note I've applied two coats of the tinted primer will try to finish tomorrow. Bad news is I didn't notice but apparently my hitachi pancake 6 gal compressor at 3.8 cfm isn't enough to effectively run my hvlp gun had to do a lot of waiting ... Maybe I'll rent one tomorrow to start the doors and stuff. Will post pictures if anyone wants to see the end result


Any pictures of what you have done so far? You could have done the entire finish with a wipe on...no spraying necessary, but you chose another route. If you are destined to spray, you might consider a siphon cup and gun from HF. It's less than $20, and will operate on lower air pressure.

As for the "black", that could have been done with a diluted oil base enamel, or black acrylic mix in clear waterbase polyurethane. Both would have been a wipe on...no compressor needed. For a topcoat, you can use a waterbase polyurethane as a wipe/brush on, and it dries fast. You may still decide to spray it on for the doors and drawer fronts. Works great as a spray in thin applications. It's not fun spraying inside. Not much really shows on the cabinets themselves...face frame and ends.


















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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Regardless of sprayer you use you will need a bigger compressor. You need to keep a wet edge on the paint to prevent lap lines and if you have to stop and wait for the compressor to catch up that is what is going to happen. A siphon sprayer would be better but I no longer even use a cup gun finishing cabinets. I only finish cabinets now inside of the house when it is a refinish. Spraying them in the shop is easier because you can do one at a time instead of a row. I prefer to use a pressure pot sprayer. It is a pot that you can put 2 1/2 gallons of paint into and it sends the paint to the sprayer through a hose. With that you can spray at any angle and if you have the pressure set right it delivers more volume paint almost like an airless so there isn't the orange peal problem spraying inside of a cabinet.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> I prefer to use a pressure pot sprayer. It is a pot that you can put 2 1/2 gallons of paint into and it sends the paint to the sprayer through a hose. With that you can spray at any angle and if you have the pressure set right it delivers more volume paint almost like an airless so there isn't the orange peal problem spraying inside of a cabinet.


While you may get more media output without changing tips, using a pressure pot to just get more output may be the wrong way to go. If the tip size on a conventional type gun doesn't give the desired output, go to a larger tip assembly. This may be because of thicker media.

There are advantages of a pressure pot. You don't have to keep filling a 1 qt cup if you have a lot to spray. You may get more output. With just hoses and no cup in the way, you can finagle the gun inside of cabinets, and spray in any direction.

There are disadvantages. The cost of a 2½ gal pot and fittings and gauges can be expensive. This could hold true for a 2 qt pressure pot. You have hoses in the way that could get on the work. Fluid hoses need to be kept clean, and that's a PITA. As in just keeping a cup clean, the inside of a pot will need to be clean, and the gasket should be checked regularly. It would be a benefit to have a few extra ready to go.




















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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

well ill take some pics today i couldnt last night because i was there so long my phone died =\ i think i might be paranoid about how much i have to sand and tack everything haha 

i just rented a big gas air compressor see if that will help me a bit after i play with the pressure and get it flowing smooth


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> While you may get more media output without changing tips, using a pressure pot to just get more output may be the wrong way to go. If the tip size on a conventional type gun doesn't give the desired output, go to a larger tip assembly. This may be because of thicker media.
> 
> There are advantages of a pressure pot. You don't have to keep filling a 1 qt cup if you have a lot to spray. You may get more output. With just hoses and no cup in the way, you can finagle the gun inside of cabinets, and spray in any direction.
> 
> ...


The experience I get with the pressure pot is once you get the pressure in the tank right it sprays almost like a airless. It doesn't atomize nearly as much. This is really helpful when you spray inside of a cabinet. Many times I have to refinish cabinets built by others that have fixed shelves and I don't have any orange peal problem with it. 

As far as the cup guns, I've drilled out the orifice out as big as possible and still didn't get the volume I wanted. 

I don't find it that difficult to keep the pressure pot clean. The one I'm using was bought in 1986 and it's only on it's second set of hoses. I even used it for a number of years with quick dry enamel in it and now I'm spraying cabinets with lacquer. I just run lacquer thinner through it and strain what is left in the pot and reuse the thinner to thin the next batch of lacquer. I have a 25' set of hoses on my rig.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

the pic doesnt seem to capture it as well as it looks in person, im impressed with how it feels and looks pretty awesome too, this is only the first coat of the top coat other pictures had too much glare on them


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The first coat soaks into the primer quite a bit. As good as it looks it will get a lot better with the second coat.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

before i passed out from exaustion i put the second coat on all the drawers and the cases after a light scuffing from 400 grit... and got both sides of MOST of the doors coated at least once... ALl i gotta do today is scuff the doors and spray them all a second time and ill be DONE! (minus one spot that ran i need to sand and touch up.

Youre right steve i think it looks great. I sprayed in 2-3 mil coats so 6mil final coat should be good?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

One last thing, I would put bumper pads on the back side of the doors as you hang them. Sometimes a fresh finish will stick to each other even though it feels dry.


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## [email protected] (Dec 30, 2013)

*Awesome*

Steve and Cabinetman, you two are just awesome.

Just my humble opinion.
I have learned an awful lot in the past few days here.


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## Gabe4182 (Jan 18, 2014)

thanks for all who have helped, the cabinets are finished except for knobs but ill let those slide until a later date, i still have a few decisions to make design wise for backsplash color/application etc and the floor to finish! im very pleased with how it came out it looks very elegant and feels really nice.. THe sprayer i had didnt work out ideally because of my compressor size but it worked just not efficiently. For all that want to know it was 380 Water Clear Varnish 

sanded 180 
practiced spraying all the cabinets with plain water and to raise the grain
sanded with 220
acylic primer 1st coat
sanded 320
primer 2nd coat
sanded 320
2 wet coats of varnish sanding between the 2

thats it. Couldnt even tell i was spraying anything no odor at all. Again i cant thank you all enough for your help especially Steve and cabinet man!!


Gabe

if anyone wants to weigh in on the backsplash ideas go right ahead. The counter top will be a white calacatta marble i was thinking a bright color to make it pop but idk!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

To tell you the truth I hated the concept of painting the cabinets black. After seeing the finished product I like it. :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*pictures look great Gabe!*

The cabinets are awesome too.... :laughing: Thanks for posting and for the finish procedure. :yes:


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