# Which router/what HP needed



## Valkyrie Rider (Jan 6, 2009)

I am going to buy a new router this by this weekend and pretty much and set on Milwaukee. I am going back and forth between the Milwaukee 5616-24 and the 5615-24. The only difference is the 1/2 HP in the motor. If I rally get into woodworking (I'm just starting)... I know I'll get a nice router table and that I'd likely get a higher HP router (like a 5625-20 to keep in that.

Question is.... do I get a 2.25HP router now and work with it and maybe put the fixed base in a table for the time being or go for the lesser HP (1.75)and figure I'll upgrade soon enough if I get into it and save the $50?

I also want to get a few bits to start with.... am I better off trying some MLCS srarter set that Amazon sells or just get a few bits? I don't have a specific project/task right now..... but I do eventually want to make some bookshelves etc out of 3/4 ply. I'd also like to reface my kitchen cabinets with some bead board doors.


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

Valkrie Rider I would get one with a 18hp Briggs and Straton engine. LOL no realy I have had a 1hp router and a 2.5 hp router and I have never bogged either one down. In most cases when running a big bit, you have to make several passes to keep from taring the wood up. So I would go with the smaller one to start with. Maybe others will disagrea with me. You can get to know how and what you can do with a smaller tool and then move up to a bigger one.


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## Valkyrie Rider (Jan 6, 2009)

I actually have an old Craftsman Commercial router that belonged to my father. My guess is 1960s though he died when i was 12 years old so I really don't know and being that I'm 30 now I can't believe it is much older than that.... if it's even that old. I looks like it was never used at all and only has a 1/4" collet. It says 6.5A on the tool whatever that relates too in HP. I'd certainly keep that router... but I want to buy 1/2" shank bits. That router is also fixed speed at 25,000rpm If I remember correctly. It's fixed base only and is missing two base screws.

Still.... I wonder is the difference between 1 3/4HP and 2 1/4 HP is worth the $50 spent. The money isn't really a deal breaker....I have enough to buy either, (or even the 3+HP model now but only one at a time)..... but if I can save $50 and spend it on bits and not miss the power.... I'll be a happy camper.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

Buy the smaller model and spend the extra money on bits. There is very little that I woud try with a 2.25ph router, that I wouldn't or couldn't do with a 1.75hp router.

I do not own a Milwaukee router. I have a lot of other Milwaukee tools, and love them. I think I had fallen victim to bias. When I needed a drill or a recip saw, Milwaukee is one of the first names that came to mind. Their "BodyGrip" routers have gotten great reviews for years, but I just never really gave them a thought. Milwaukee was for plumbers and electricians (both of which I have been, in some capacity), not carpenters/woodworkers. Go check out the new Milwaukee 12' miter saws. They are incredible. I bought the slider, and it is by far the best saw I have ever used. Their new 12v tools, are amazing. They are now a tool company, not a trade company. They have stepped up to the plate and hit some home runs. 

If you get into doing larger bit work, you will want a bigger router. The 1.75hp models tend to handle a little better than the 2.25ph models (generally less top-heavy). The Milwaukee has a great reputation for balance and control. The fixed-base, I think, has the "above table adjustment", which is great for mounting in a table. Most other manufacturers only offer that in their 2.25hp models. 

The 1.75hp kit that you chose is hard to beat. If you go with the 2.25hp, also take a look at Bosch and Dewalt. I have both, and they each have their strengths. The Dewalt plunge base has one of the most ingenious dust collection systems around. The Bosch is one of the smoothest routers I have ever used. Not to diminish the Milwaukee in any way, but these also have their merits for about the same price.

BTW, my local Woodcraft has their $5 bit sale going on now (or at least last week). The selection is limited, but they are some of the most common used. Great deal.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Just FYI, the Freud Avanti fixed / plunge base 2.25 HP router kit is currently on sale at Lowes for $99.97. It's a good deal on a good router. If I didn't already have the KM12VC I would pick a couple of these up. I really want a couple of matching routers to ease setups and switching between profiles...


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Valkerie,
I have the 1 3/4 hp Milwaukee body gripper. For freehand work, I always reach for it. For a table, save your money up and get a bigger one. I have the 3 1/2 hp Milw. in my table and like it very much. Has all the features you would want in a table mount router and plenty of oomph to run the larger bits. One is never enough, I think I'm up to five now.:laughing:
Mike Hawkins


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

> One is never enough, I think I'm up to five now


Amen, you can never have enough. I currently have 11 (yes, I had to count). I still use each one, and most are used every week. This affords me the ability to avoid most of the setup time on a project. Take a typical (if there is such a thing) cabinet job. I can have three or four routers for table work ( rail, stile, panel, and back-cutter), two or three for dovetails (two for through-dovetails, maybe one for half-blind), and then a couple of others for "general purpose" bits (round overs, dados, rabbets, etc.). I have a very demanding "primary career", and really have to be able to drop everything at a moments notice. My setup allows me to do this, and pick back up where I was.



> Just FYI, the Freud Avanti fixed / plunge base 2.25 HP router kit is currently on sale at Lowes for $99.97. It's a good deal on a good router. If I didn't already have the KM12VC I would pick a couple of these up. I really want a couple of matching routers to ease setups and switching between profiles...


dbhost is right. This is an incredible deal. 



> For freehand work, I always reach for it.


I think this is a very important comment. Some products just feel right. When talking about routers (for handheld use), jigsaws, and sanders this should be one of the most important selection criteria. One of my favorite routers is an old 1hp Makita Plunger. I feel like I can control it in any situation. It just seems to fit my hands. One of my least used routers, the Bosch Colt, is just not comfortable to me. It is just as capable as the Makita, but I don't like the feel.


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## Valkyrie Rider (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm going with the 1.75HP Milwaukee kit and then when I am ready for a table, I'll get a 3+HP monster for the table.

Thanks for all the advice!


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## BHOFM (Oct 14, 2008)

I am not a serious router person. Lot of rounding overs
and a few dados. Some rabbits now and then.

I have a old 1/2hp Black&decker that takes care of
most of it. Along with a plastic table that seems to
do everything I need.

When needed I have a 1 1/2hp Craftsman.

I like the little B&D because it is light and small
and seems to be near as powerful as the Craftsman.

Also having two routers is a big plus when it comes
to not having to change bits and set ups all the time.

I don't know if all routers are the same, but both of
mine have the same base plate and I can use the jigs
I make with either one as needed.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The 5615 is a great router and is very powerful for it's amp rating. The biggest advantage of going with the 5616 is for the variable speed feature. VS is an important feature for a router table....not so much for hand use. 

The 15 pc MLCS set is find for starters. That was my first set. Other good bargain names are Price Cutter, Woodriver (Woodcraft), Grizzly, and Woodline. If I had it to do over, I'd likely go with the top shelf 7pc Whiteside set for $80 from Holbren, then would add profiles as needed.


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## BobbyfromHouston (Jul 4, 2008)

I have the 1 3/4 hp Milwaukee also. It is very powerful. I would prefer that it be variable speed/ soft start. You can't go wrong with Milwaukee in my opinion. I would definitely go with the 3 1/2 Milwaukee in your router table down the road. They offer kits at Rockler where you don't have to buy the body of the router just the motor to go in a lift. It makes an excellent set up.


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## johnv51 (Oct 27, 2008)

I have the pc690 kit with both bases and have been happy with it for hand held jobs. For my table I built Norm's improved model and rebuilt the top last year when Rockler put the Mast-r-lift and PC7518 motor on sale as a package. It's easy to use and adjust and can handle anything I push through it.


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## rmonzo (Dec 15, 2008)

My first was an Elu by B&D, a 2hp plunge variable speed, and the second was a Porter Cable. If you have smaller hands like I do, then the DeWalt, which is the closest thing to the Elu shape and form would do the trick. The switch can be activated without taking your hands off the machine. The PC switch is not as easy to use.
I'd suggest going with all the power you can get for the money. At todays prices you don't want to error on the side of too little power.
Good Luck.
PS- the Elu is one of the best machines I've ever used.


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## KevinK (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi

I definitely agree with rmonzo, I have a ELU plunge router and it is the best tool, well worth the money I paid for it, about 20 years ago. It is too bad they are no longer available. If I had to replace it I would be considering the Festool routers.

Good Luck


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## Ash (Jan 16, 2009)

dbhost said:


> Just FYI, the Freud Avanti fixed / plunge base 2.25 HP router kit is currently on sale at Lowes for $99.97. It's a good deal on a good router. If I didn't already have the KM12VC I would pick a couple of these up. I really want a couple of matching routers to ease setups and switching between profiles...


Sadly I was late to spot this thread and have missed this deal. None of the Lowes in my area have it in stock anymore. I am in the same boat as the OPer. I am also looking at this router table - http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=131779-353-RA1171&lpage=none by Bosch. Should I even consider it... or just go with the cheaper RYOBI at HD?


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## Ash (Jan 16, 2009)

knotscott said:


> If I had it to do over, I'd likely go with the top shelf 7pc Whiteside set for $80 from Holbren, then would add profiles as needed.


I checked this out and looks like a fine collection.
Any particular reason you would have wanted to go this route?
Also given a choice which option would be more versatile 1/2" or 1/4" shank? Or is that a stupid newbie question?


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Ash said:


> Sadly I was late to spot this thread and have missed this deal. None of the Lowes in my area have it in stock anymore. I am in the same boat as the OPer. I am also looking at this router table - http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=131779-353-RA1171&lpage=none by Bosch. Should I even consider it... or just go with the cheaper RYOBI at HD?


I've owned a Ryobi router in the past, and it was a good, accurate machine, but I wouldn't recommend the current model. The plunge is awfully rough...

For not much more money, you could grab a Hitachi KM12VC and get both a fixed and a plunge base. I really like mine. Good smooth, powerful, and quiet comparatively speaking of course. 

I don't know squat about Milwakee tools other than the Sawzall and their blades.

I just recently dumped off a benchtop router table. You will find them relatively lacking. Unless you just want the absolute basics, you would be better off building your own, or buying at the very minimum, a Rockler base model MDF table / insert / fence setup, and those can lay you back some bucks...


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Ash said:


> I checked this out and looks like a fine collection.
> Any particular reason you would have wanted to go this route?
> Also given a choice which option would be more versatile 1/2" or 1/4" shank? Or is that a stupid newbie question?


Not a stupid question at all....it's a very good question. 

Get the 1/2" shank whenever feasible...they're much stronger, have less vibration, and tend to perform better....not much argument about that. 

Which bits to get is more subjective. I started with a 15 pc MLCS bit set for $40...it was a good starter set of decent quality bits that didn't cost much. They dulled after about 3 years of moderate use, but worked well up to that point. The Whiteside bits are simply better quality that will perform better....they have better carbide, thicker carbide, better steel, better balance, better bearings, will hold an edge longer and are worth resharpening. They're made in the USA, are some of the best bits you can buy, have been consistently top rated, and the set features the most commonly used profiles so you'll use them all.

I'll second the suggestion to pick up the Hitachi M12VC over the Ryobi. You'll be giving up next to nothing with the Hitachi relative to a more expensive router.


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## Ash (Jan 16, 2009)

Thankyou for both for your suggestions. I pulled the trigger on the Bosch 1617 kit with a free edge guide thrown in. 
Can I get by without a router table for now? Looks like the good ones are expensive...

As far as bits are concerned, I am still one the fence about the getting the MLCS for less than half of the Whiteside set....


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

You should be very happy with the Bosch. I have one, and it is among my favorite routers. 

It really depends on what type of work you are doing, whether you need a table or not. I couldn't get by without one, but that may not be the case for you. Also, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. The fixed base for the Bosch has the "above the table adjustment" feature that makes it very capable in a table. For several years, I just used a little home-made table, similar to the Bosch referenced above. Several manufacturers make plates, and the templates to cut out for them.


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## mmtools (Aug 21, 2008)

mwhafner said:


> Buy the smaller model and spend the extra money on bits. There is very little that I woud try with a 2.25ph router, that I wouldn't or couldn't do with a 1.75hp router./quote]
> 
> I agree with Mhafner


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Ash said:


> Thankyou for both for your suggestions. I pulled the trigger on the Bosch 1617 kit with a free edge guide thrown in.
> Can I get by without a router table for now? Looks like the good ones are expensive...
> 
> As far as bits are concerned, I am still one the fence about the getting the MLCS for less than half of the Whiteside set....


A router table adds a huge element of safety, convenience, precision, and versatility to using a router. A table mounted router is much easier to control, is more stable, and is more predictable than a hand router. You can get by without one, but once you've experienced what it can do, you'll wonder why you'd want to. They're very simple to make in the shop. In less than a weekend, and often from available scraps, you can turn out a very functional router table. There are tons of ideas and plans for them on the web.


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## Ash (Jan 16, 2009)

I guess I already know what I will be doing this weekend :thumbsup:
My first project in woodworking was a workbench - and it turned out pretty ok and solid... I guess I was concerned about not getting it precise and square... But I rather build a faulty table myself than buy a POS for $100 at HD.
So long as we are on the topic, does anyone know of a decent simple plan for such a table. I have come across a bunch varying in complexity, but dont know which one to go for. Any help would be appreciated!


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

> I guess I already know what I will be doing this weekend :thumbsup:
> My first project in woodworking was a workbench - and it turned out pretty ok and solid... I guess I was concerned about not getting it precise and square... But I rather build a faulty table myself than buy a POS for $100 at HD.
> So long as we are on the topic, does anyone know of a decent simple plan for such a table. I have come across a bunch varying in complexity, but dont know which one to go for. Any help would be appreciated!


I don't think there is any one best table plan. Norm Abrams plan has some very nice features, and is probably one of the most versatile I have seen. I have seen a lot of others that also have their merits. Keep in mind that you will probably want to make modifications in the future, I always do.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Ash said:


> I guess I already know what I will be doing this weekend :thumbsup:
> My first project in woodworking was a workbench - and it turned out pretty ok and solid... I guess I was concerned about not getting it precise and square... But I rather build a faulty table myself than buy a POS for $100 at HD.
> So long as we are on the topic, does anyone know of a decent simple plan for such a table. I have come across a bunch varying in complexity, but dont know which one to go for. Any help would be appreciated!


Iv'e seen router tables as simple as a piece of MDF with a router mounted underneath supported by 2 saw horses, with a straight 2x4 clamped as a fence. It probably won't be your last router table, so don't worry it's not THE router table to beat all router tables. I've used either 5/4" or 9/8" laminated pressboard with some success, and used a store bought phenolic router plate (~ $30). 

Here's one of dozens that a "DIY router tables" Google search will yield. http://www.rbok.com/routertable/

Here's one of mine:









And another:


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## ben arnott (Nov 15, 2008)

Ash said:


> Thankyou for both for your suggestions. I pulled the trigger on the Bosch 1617 kit with a free edge guide thrown in.
> Can I get by without a router table for now? Looks like the good ones are expensive...
> 
> As far as bits are concerned, I am still one the fence about the getting the MLCS for less than half of the Whiteside set....


Hi Ash, I own this router as well. I'm very pleased with it. It has a nice start up and I really like the mechanism they designed for changing out the motor from fixed base to plunge base. The only thing I had to adjust to was the location of the power switch. 

When picking up or setting down the tool (not actually using it), I found it easy for my hands to power up the router by accident. After years of handling cameras I am in the habit of handling a tool by the most expensive component (the lens as opposed to the body of the camera) In the case of a router, I handle the unit by the motor. I just had to stop turning the damn thing on by accident.


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