# Measuring inches - I'm done.....



## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

After 11 years here in the good old US of A, I have religiously worked in inches. Using my Laptop to divide fractions and more fractions and then measuring them.

Just saw a tape measure at Lowes in mm, after asking myself why the heck I do this, it ended up in my basket.

I am done. Will do what I did when still young and dumb, working with whole numbers only and occasionally with a metric decimal on my vernier caliper, which never got changed to inches.

So much easier, don't have to think.


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## laviesman (Dec 3, 2011)

I remember back in grade school 1970's talk of the US switching to the metric system, almost 40 years and it still on the Imperial system. Looks like it's here to stay...


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

laviesman said:


> I remember back in grade school 1970's talk of the US switching to the metric system, almost 40 years and it still on the Imperial system. Looks like it's here to stay...


At that time, Gerald Ford was trying to take the country's mind off of Nixon and Watergate. One of the things that was tried was the switch to Metric. It was a big deal. In a machinist magazine I even saw ads for metric tools including "Metric screw drivers, both slot and Phillips." :huh:

The change to the metric system was a failure because approximately 50% of the population of the US uttered these words,
"I will not cook in Metric." And thus the great switch to Metric failed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

rrich;268090....
The change to the metric system was a failure because approximately 50% of the population of the US uttered these words said:


> "I will not cook in Metric." And thus the great switch to Metric failed.[/B]


I refuse to drive in kilometers per hour. :blink: bill

I had a metric hammer once...it came with no instructions...I ditched it...


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I often eyeball dimensions and use a story stick to get all of the legs the right length and my marking gauge is uncalibrated. I then avoid both systems. ya can't misread a rule if ya don't use one!!


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

I dunno, I bounce between the two all day long, got used to it a long time ago. But I still have trouble with converting temps quickly.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*back and forth then out*

I was raised in the Imperial system and used it for 40 years, the decimal version in 1/100, not fractional. Then GM converted their Design Studios to the Metric system and gave us all new steel scales and changed the stations on the platforms used to measure the lengths down the side of the cars. I would come home and do construction in feet and inches. I've never used it for woodworking, but I do recognize the advantages from having worked with it. 

The ladies I know would not understand metric dimension body parts, but numerically it sounds like a lot more...just sayin' :blink:

My problem is I have both Metric bolt and nut and Imperial and I have to keep them separate 'cause they don't interchange. Plywood is now sold in inches for length and width, but it's sometimes, more often than not, Metric in thickness, go figure. 

Now you have to make Metric dados and have Metric router bits.
go figure again. I'm stickin' with inches until I lose all my tape measures.  bill


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

"914-609-914, what a winning hand!" 

Maybe it woulda worked in Brick House


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## PPBART (Oct 7, 2011)

Brink said:


> I dunno, I bounce between the two all day long, got used to it a long time ago. But I still have trouble with converting temps quickly.


Me too -- worked for a Dutch company for ~25 yrs, spent a lot of time in Europe. Their plants were metric, US plants were Imperial. Personally, I prefer metric for home shop projects.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Why would you need a computer to divide measurements? I have never built anything so large that I could not do most of the math in my head. Or a pencil and the back of a board if more complicated.

George


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

GeorgeC said:


> Why would you need a computer to divide measurements? I have never built anything so large that I could not do most of the math in my head. Or a pencil and the back of a board if more complicated.
> 
> George


+1.:yes: When I started out there weren't even handheld calculators. It's amazing what a pencil, pad and a brain can do.












 







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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I frequently use a metric steel drafting ruler for laying out small divisions such as Dovetails but I still think in inches and feet.

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I do digital inches. Back to whole numbers again. What's the difference if I am doing 54.65" or 1388.11 mm


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## mackem (May 20, 2007)

I use this system these days.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

We have a full-on machine shop.....am completely "tooled" in Std and Metric.Two lathes,one for metwic one std.Makes no never mind which system is used as to our capability's.BUT as much as metric proponents want to espouse its virtues....it pales in comparison to std when threading,irrespective as to machines leadscrew.

But other than that,don't make much difference.....you could give me a stick with a bunch of scratch marks on it,and theres simple effective ways of utilizing it for measuring.....whatever floats your boat?BW


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> I do digital inches. Back to whole numbers again. What's the difference if I am doing 54.65" or 1388.11 mm


The difference is that I can mark .65 inches on a board. I would find it very difficult to mark .11mm.

If you are working in metric I would think that the smallest dimension that would ever be used is a whole milimeter. In the English system the most common dimension used as the smallest is 1/32" In a pinch you can get down to 1/64". 

This is speaking in terms of woodworking.

George


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

George,just a FYI.......on a quality framing square theres a .01" scale on the corner.We use it frequently with deviders.Just sayin,BW


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

GeorgeC said:


> The difference is that I can mark .65 inches on a board. I would find it very difficult to mark .11mm.
> 
> If you are working in metric I would think that the smallest dimension that would ever be used is a whole milimeter. In the English system the most common dimension used as the smallest is 1/32" In a pinch you can get down to 1/64".
> 
> ...


+1.:yes: Heck yeah. Whatever numbering system you choose to use, it's my experience not to mix them up. Converting fractions to decimal, is not the same as using metric. Decimal equivalents can go many places on either side of the decimal. Coming up with half of a mm seems a stretch in a woodworking shop. Half of a fraction is just doubling the denominator (the bottom number).

And for all you metric guys...you probably thought the denominator was a new Schwarzenegger movie.:laughing:












 







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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

GeorgeC said:


> The difference is that I can mark .65 inches on a board. I would find it very difficult to mark .11mm.
> 
> If you are working in metric I would think that the smallest dimension that would ever be used is a whole milimeter. In the English system the most common dimension used as the smallest is 1/32" In a pinch you can get down to 1/64".
> 
> ...


I work to 5 thou on my tablesaw. I work to 1/128 with a ruler and my eye. Working to a millimeter would make my projects look like a hack made them.


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## Elliott (Oct 15, 2011)

I was born in the states, but have been in switzerland for 15 years and learned the trade here. I went to canada few yearsback for a log building class and couldnt quite grasp the imperial mesurements... Metric does seemeasier to follow, but i like the difference of the english system, it has more caracter you could say. Whatever it takes to get the job done, right? If your more at ease with one system you might as well stick with it.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I have been screwed by 11/16 vs 13/16 many times. Something that wouldn't happen in metric. But you can transpose numbers just as easily while you are in the heat of building something.


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## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

Wrangler said:


> I often eyeball dimensions and use a story stick to get all of the legs the right length and my marking gauge is uncalibrated. I then avoid both systems. ya can't misread a rule if ya don't use one!!


Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you must use a tape...........Tape Avail. in Imperial, Metric and Mesopotamian (cubits).


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Do you build entire kitchens with that method? All subsequent parts, doors drawers etc. I can see using that system for overall dimensions but not for inter-part dimensions.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Leo G said:


> I have been screwed by 11/16 vs 13/16 many times. Something that wouldn't happen in metric. But you can transpose numbers just as easily while you are in the heat of building something.


Using your numbers, and how you write, you could mistake 1 1/16 for 11/16, or 1 3/16 for 13/16.:yes:












 







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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gene Howe said:


> Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> If you must use a tape...........Tape Avail. in Imperial, Metric and Mesopotamian (cubits).


Good thing they have different ones.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:












 







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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

cabinetman said:


> Using your numbers, and how you write, you could mistake 1 1/16 for 11/16, or 1 3/16 for 13/16.:yes:


It usually just taking a measurement and then transferring it to my pc. And it never works in reverse. I never read 13/16 and it is really 11/16. It is always the other way and I need to get a new pc.

It would be pretty hard for me to make that mistake, I don't write my numbers in a way that I could confuse the inch number for the fraction.


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## Gene Howe (Feb 28, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Do you build entire kitchens with that method? All subsequent parts, doors drawers etc. I can see using that system for overall dimensions but not for inter-part dimensions.


My last 3 kitchens were built using the stick method. Albeit, not exclusively. But, as to your inter-part query, that is where the stick method is most valuable. ie. flush drawer fronts, flush doors, and their panel sizing.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I just use a tape for that. Plus the computer generated drawing make the parts numbers pretty absolute. The Wixey gauge on the saw makes parts sizes and repeatability very consistent.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

GeorgeC said:


> Why would you need a computer to divide measurements? I have never built anything so large that I could not do most of the math in my head. Or a pencil and the back of a board if more complicated.
> 
> George


I guess the difference is that you grew up with inches and I did not.
Calculator, or computer same thing. I normally keep my drawings on my laptop, so it's always in the shop.

One of the biggest challenges we always faced, when I was is in this business with my father, was teaching craftsmen how important accuracy in woodwork is, when building complex furniture.

Those who were hard headed, learned the hard way on a bigger job, when a 1/16" inch in the wrong place gave them 1/2" out somewhere else and it was not fixable. It can also make the difference between tight unstressed joint lines and joints with gaps.

When setting up a furniture factory for mass production, 1/32" will not cut it. Imagine having a auto process cutting strips out of a 8x4 plywood and each is out 1/64" on the one side. When the last is cut, we are totally out of square.


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## R.J. (Feb 11, 2011)

The metric system. Have their key problems.
Different shops. Different people.
For example:
At 0.8 meters
In 80 centimeters
At 800 millimeters

Man says. Two zero eight.
What is it 208 or 2080 or 2800. Centimetres or Millimeter?
Mistakes do happen.
Man measures. and said distance. second person writes.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Apparently none of you people ever owned a 1976 Chevy. That damned thing had both meteric and SAE bolts! Nearly drove me crazy every time I had to work on it.

I've worked with both systems and while distance measurements may be easier, volume and temperatures are not. If its 83F here, its 30 or 40C there?


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

"I had a metric hammer once...it came with no instructions...I ditched it... "

LOL!


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

rrich said:


> "I had a metric hammer once...it came with no instructions...I ditched it... "
> 
> LOL!


I had an imperial wife once. Almost the same thing, the instructions never worked. I ditched her................


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*hmmmm*

rrich was quoting my signature line here;

Originally Posted by *rrich*  
_"I had a metric hammer once...it came with no instructions...I ditched it... "

LOL!_

Quote:
I had an imperial wife once. Almost the same thing, the instructions never worked. I ditched her................ 


I think I know her..... :blink: bill


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## PPBART (Oct 7, 2011)

johnnie52 said:


> Apparently none of you people ever owned a 1976 Chevy...


Nor a late-model Harley-Davidson(!)


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## PPBART (Oct 7, 2011)

WillemJM said:


> imperial wife... the instructions never worked...


Hers or yours?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*imperious/imperial*



WillemJM said:


> I had an imperial wife once. Almost the same thing, the instructions never worked. I ditched her................


This definition would be appropriate:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/imperious
*im·pe·ri·ous*

   [im-peer-ee-uh







s]  Show IPA 
adjective 1. domineering in a haughty manner; dictatorial; overbearing: an imperious manner; an imperious person. 

2. urgent; imperative: imperious need.


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## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

I figure I already have enough stuff to do without trying to relearn to do something I do just fine in the first place.
and BTW...why is it called "imperial" anyways? lets change it to "democratic" and see how long it takes it to turn "communist"


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