# finishing kitchen countertop



## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

I built a kitchen counter out of mahogany.The counter will have a self rimming sink.The countertop will butt against a free standing stove on both sides of the stove.After some investigation I found out epoxy breaks down at 140-160 degrees.The old counter got rather warm when the stove top was on high.I can imagine the finish dripping off.I'd like for the top to be a little darker and then seal it.Is tung oil a clear finish if so can you tint tung oil?Do you poly over tung oil?How about mineral oil?The top is made of 5/4x4's joined together.What is the best top coat for a wooden kitchen countertop?Any suggestions will be appreciated.Thanks.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I saw this over at DIY and didn't answer because I would use the epoxy. I would be concerned if the counter is getting above 100 degrees anyway with a wood top no matter what finish you use. 

Have you taken a temp of the counter aftet the stove has been on a while?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Welcome gregsr. I don't want to take a stab at this one but will be interested to learn along with you. Glad you found us!


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

I'm concerned by the heat also.It's the top of the range that presnts the problem,lets say boiling a pan of water.The electric element is only 5in.'s from the side of the stove.It didn't damage the old laminate countertop.I haven't taken the temperature of the counter but air temperature can reach 100 degrees in the summer.the counter is obviously warm to the touch.If someone by accident set a warm pan on the top I'm sure it would dent the epoxy.I like the idea of epoxy but leary in appling it(pouring it),never used it before.Very nice top.U-shaped herring bone corners,lots of work,35 sq. ft. afraid of ruining it.There are heat guards that go on the edge's of countertops next to the stove,but not sure of their effectiveness.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I don't know what to tell ya. I've done kitchen counters before with the epoxy but they had a wall oven and the cooktop was a new drop in type so I don't know how hot it got. They never called to complain about any problems. With a wood top your going to have to use trivets with possibl a potholder under that to catch the radiating heat. 

The epoxy is pretty easy to work with just be sure to follow directions and mix well. A plastic putty knife works well for moving it around and getting it in place. Be sure to have a propane torch handy to wave over the top to pop any bubbles that rise to the top.


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

I was thinking an exterior polyurathane.If I do that and it doesn't satisfy me can I epoxy over the urethane without sanding all the urethane off.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I don't think that polyurethane is the way to go. I would want something that is rated for food contact.


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

I was under the impression that the hardeners made the finish toxic and once hardend it wasn't toxic anymore.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I'm not sure. I've been looking around on the net but can't find anything conclusive.

Sorry I don't have a better answer.


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

Here is a picture of the top and where the stove will go.Thanks for your help.I haven't put the nosing on yet,not sure of the profile I want.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I haven't had the chance to do it yet on a job but I've thought about carefully placed peices of granite where you would place a hot pot or pan. You should be able to buy small peices for cheap and just cut a recess for them. You could do that on both sides of stove. It would give you a place to put your hot pots and pans plus not effect the finish.


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

Just thought about this.I think I could avoid the heat by raising the stove above the countertop.The old stove was about 1/2 in. below the countertop.If it was above the top or even (heat rises) I don't think it would get as hot.Stoves are 36 in.'s high. It depends on you setting the cabinets before or after the floor is installed (hardwood flooring).Pre-manufactrured cabinets are34-1/2 in.'s high + 1 1/2 in. counter=36.Over the 22 yr.'s Ive worked for general contractor's we have always put the unfinished hardwood down before the cabinets which put the stove even with the countertop.Then came pre-finished flooring,where we set the cabinets first,which put your stove higher then your counter depending on the thickness of your flooring.My old cabinets sat on top of the flooring and some how the stove was lower than the countertop(floor out of level).We did it this way to avoid traffic on the finished floor.Being a finisher you understand after the floor is finished no one enters with shoes on, no longer setting cabinets.In Md.finishers post hand written sign's saying floor finished stay out you are responsible.Is there any epoxy you can brush on?Still afraid of the pour.I have to pour it in place along with the back splash any leak and I'm done.I like the idea of the inlaid trivets.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I worked for a Contractor for several years and when we set the kitchen stove we would always adjust the feet so that the stove is even with the top of the counter. Being even or slightly higher will help a lot to keep the heat away from it.

There is no brush on epoxy that I know of. The poured stuff scared me the first time but after that it wasn't a big deal. Make sure to seal any cracks along the back so it doesn't run down into the cabinets. I would seal the backsplash seperately then install with glue and caulk the seam between backsplash and countertop. The epoxy doesn't work very well on vertical surfaces. Be sure to put plastic down on the floor to catch the run off from the pour. The stuff is like molasis, very thick so it doesn't just run everywhere. You will have to help even it out with a plastic putty knife or paint brush but once you get it spread out then it will self level.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Great thread. Don't stop yet!


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Here in UK stoves always flush with work tops. However, trend is to have hob let into worktop and oven at waist with top oven/grill at eye level. Us old folks appreciate not having to get down too low.

Our hob is a Neff with touch controls (no knobs).

johnep


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

john maybe you could clarify for soome us yanks what is a "hob" and a 'neff"? maybe some of you other yanks know but I do not. :blink:


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

This is the response I got from minwax about finishing the top.
Currently Minwax does not manufacture a stain or clear finish that is FDA
approved. We do not perform animal testing and cannot test for ingestion.
Most Minwax clear coatings are fully cured in 14-30 days. Once cured, the
film is considered inert and is no longer releasing toxins or chemicals.

If you are interested in an FDA approved product, I'd recommend Behlen at
866-785-7781 (www.hbehlen.com). Behlen manufacture coatings that are safe
for infant furniture, high chairs, recreational objects (games, puzzles,
children's toys) salad bowls, wooden utensils, chopping/butcher blocks, and
food preparation surfaces. Here's another link you can also try:
http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/
The bohlen website have some nice sounding products.No epoxy though.One product called Rock Hard for table tops stood out for me.Progressive epoxy polymers web site had more information the I could retain(very large,informative site).Any first timer with epoxy(like myself)should visit this website.They do have a brush on epoxy. So me being old school,tried and true,when I pour this top will silicone caulk hold upto the epoxy for filling voids between the top and the wall or will the epoxy melt the silicone.I want to stain the top darker.The mahogany I purchased has quite a bit of blonde in it(lack of quality suppliers in my area).Should I use sanding sealer first for a more even coat.I have never attempted any finishing like this.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

OK. Ya gotta keep asking for me to remember all the steps for this. I do it all the time and am doing four vanity tops this week. I stain my tops to the customers color choice. After that I use Zinsser seal coat to seal the tops. Any sealer will work. After the wood is sealed then I will prefill any holes or cracks with the epoxy. I'll mix up little batches and pour over the holes or cracks and allow it to seep into it and try to get it flus to the top. After about an hour or two I'll take the plastic putty knife and wipe it down as flat as I can. It doesn't have to be perfect but the flatter the better. I'll let that set up then the next day I will do a full pour over the whole project.

It should not eat the silicone at all. It is not a volatile mixture. I'll take some pics right now and show progress of the tops I'm working on now.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Here are some Pics that I just took. The first one shows some major cracks I had to prefill. It actually took two time of prefill to get them to the top so I can pour the last coat tomorrow.

The next two are tops that are done and ready for delivery as soon as I finish the other two I'm working on now.


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

I forgot to ask this.Common sense tells me to pour and then cut the sink out after the epoxy has cured.How about the sanding sealer before I stain for an even coat of stain.Thanks for your help you'v
e been very informative.Questions never asked,unfortunatly are the dumb ones.
The pictures came up while I was typing(slowly).Hardly any of the epoxy fell over the side,I was expecting a water fall.Thanks for the pictures they're worth a thousand words.What brand name do you use and what is the working time of that brand?Forget the sink cutting question.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

*Neffs and Hobs*

USA and UK. Two countries divided by a common language.

Neff is a German brand of up market (Up Town) kitchen appliances.

Trend here is to split the various parts of a stove/cooker into a separate top with burners or electric rings/ceramic halogen. and let this in flush with the counter top. Ours is a ceramic hob which is so shallow that allows a drawer underneath. The touch controls mean no crevices for fat etc so very easy to clean.

Built into a cupd is the main oven at waist level and a smaller oven with grill at eye level.

All on www.neff.co.uk

johnep


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

*poured finishes*

First saw this type of top at a restaurant near Piarco airport in Trinidad.

Looked like old railway sleepers somehow covered in glass. Then again in Bermuda where a collection of coins was also displayed.

Never seen them in the UK.

johnep


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I use a brand called Aristocrat. I can't find it on the internet but my lumberyard gets it. It cost me $70.00 a gallon and it covers 32 square feet. 

Here is a link to some. I've never tried this brand but this company is well known. http://www.glazecoat.com/GlazeCoat.htm

The reason I cut my sinks out first is the chance of scratching or chipping after would be very good. 

You will experience alot more runoff where you have to drag the finish over the edge for the front of your countertop. If the countertop is close to the front of the cabinets then I would advise placing some 2 inch masking tape on the underside of the countertop and let it hang out toward the front. This will keep the finish from dripping down onto the cabinets face.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

john thanks for the explanation. Still a little muddy about what exactly a hob is though. Even when you "up market" I would have been a little befuddled had you not said "up town" but really it would be "upscale" here. I love the differences!

greg I removed those posts for you.

Dave do you mind covering the planing and sanding process you use. i know you have elsewhere but having it here in this thread all in one place would be real handy.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

I get my slabs already planed down to a thickness of any where between 2 3/4 to 3 inches. When I bring them home they have plenty of chatter marks and lines where the other places planer blades are chipped so I take a 4x24 belt sander and start working them down as evenly as I can and get a good smooth base. After that I orbital with 120 grit to remove any belt sander marks then stain with whatever the customer wants. Seal it and put the epoxy finish on it.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

I just remembered 'uptown girl' by Billy Joel and reckoned you would know this meant expensive quality. Over here we would call an uptown girl 'high maintenance'.

Going to Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk tomorrow so my wife can indulge in what is called 'retail therapy'.

johnep


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## gregsr (Apr 16, 2007)

I can imagine those back splashes being a bear.They are made of 5/4 by 3 1/2" boards 12 ft. long,one of them.I'll scribe them to the counter and do whatever it takes to make them level before the pour.Like screwing them to a straight 2x4 and leveling that.I hope they don't bow from or after the pour. I hope the epoxy will help keep them straight.Can you fudge this stuff out of level,I'm sure the experience tells you when to let it alone.I had some experience with west system some years ago.We were using it on some exterior work on an historic home.We were adding the ballons the first couple of times to fill the voids in some facia.Then the owner wanted just to coat a few exterior trim pieces,(west system had just became available in our area,the new wave)so we mixed it like the directions said for adding the ballons. but this time without the baloons(not the same ratio)if I remember correctly.I left for a couple of secounds after mixing and when I came back the epoxy was smoking ,spilled all over the floor,because it had melted the mixing container.Thats why I thought the silicone might not hold up and why I'm a little weary.
Thanks Dave,quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

johnep said:


> Going to Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk tomorrow so my wife can indulge in what is called 'retail therapy'.


Okay I am starting to get this bloke lingo. On the death of St Edmunds, my condolences. Must be one of those peculiar British customs to need to bury him in Suffolk so your wife can shop there though.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

St Edmund was a Saxon King around AD 650 who lost a battle with the Danes. His remains were carried around East Anglia and finally buried at a place to be called Bury St Edmunds. known to thousands of US airmen who flew out of nearby US base and still do so. They fly 40 year old 707s and I like to watch them passing overhead.
Well we did not go after all today so I was able to make a hinged top to give me extra working surface. Hung it on back of old chest of drawers in the garage. Have another in my study (den) which is ideal for paper work, but folds down out of the way when not required.
johnep


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

*My kitchen hob*









Hopefully here is a pic of my Neff hob which is touch controlled.
first time used photobucket.
johnep


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

*my neff hob*

Oh well its in my gallery, not sure how to get into proper format.
johnep


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## SafetyMan (Mar 31, 2007)

Good luck with the counters... I have nothing to offer, except assistance with the pic...


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

That's an awesome looking hob. So I guess a hob is a stove top eh. I think I finally understand. 

What are the dial looking things under the burners and the circle on the top left?


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

*Halogen Hob*

Funny enough with the eye you can only see a red glow, the camera must have picked up on a wavelength not visible to me. the elements are similar to the halogen lights on your car but very powerful.

The dial pointers are just the electrical connection to the spiral. back left hand ring is a dual for large or small pans.

All controlled very easily by touch controls at front. Actual surface is 'ceran' glass from Schott.
Latest stove tops use induction heating where high frequency current induces a current in the base of the pan which heats up.

Main advantage of these sealed tops is cleanliness and lack of heat transfer into the kitchen, ie saving energy.

Watched 'The day after tomorrow' last night and gave me something to think about saving power.

All our lights are now fluorescent bulbs using 20% of the energy compared to ordinary tungsten. Also had roof space double insulated and cavity walls filled. Naturally all windows are double glazed units.

Aim in UK is to reduce energy required to the minimum. People are buying windmill generators and solar panels.

Many thanks to safetyman for inserting the pic properly. I am a keen PC Pilot with Flight Sim and would like to post pics.

johnep


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## clampman (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Dave,

Those tops are gorgeous. Thanks for the pictures.

jimc


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