# Staining large objects



## 6SpeedSD (Jan 21, 2011)

How do you guys stain large pieces of furniture? I'm getting ready to build a large (7'T x 6'W x 2'D) cabinet for my dad, and he wants it stained. That's a lot of surface area to apply stain to! Inside and out, 7 shelves and 7 doors. When I think about rubbing stain on that whole thing my head starts spinning! Is there an easier/better way to cover something this large?


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Your name says it all.speed break the project down though doors one at a time.shelves and moldings than look at your cabinet design. Work from the interior out


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

I used to paint houses for a living many years ago. When we had large staining projects we would apply the stain with a paint brush instead of a rag, saving the rag to wipe off excess once each large panel was stained. You can probably add a small amount of the appropriate thinner without changing the effect of the stain...this will give you a longer working time. If an area starts to dry out, reapply some stain and use extra elbow grease to get it to blend. 

Sometimes a second coat of stain after steel wooling the first coat would even out inconsistent areas also.

One other thought, try this on scrap first: try using a sanding sealer first...not sure if this will prevent the stain from soaking in but it may give you longer working time and allow for more uniform coverage.

And as others have said, work in stages and work fast. Good luck.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Applying sanding sealer first will prevent stain from penetrating and cause a finish that Knicks and flakes easy down to the sealer


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Sanding sealer in effect is a hard coat, similar to a finish coat. The stain will just lay on the surface and wont penetrate. Then you will have to remove it all that oil. 
Spraying an analine dye would be the fastest, but if you never sprayed dye before, you can get an uneven blotchy finish. Taked some practice.


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## Mr Mac (May 31, 2010)

Wear gloves, use a brush to apply and then wipe it down with a rag. Like MastersHand said, do it in sections and it will actually go pretty quick. I will use a pre-stain wood conditioner on pine but that's usually about it.

Mac


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## timmybgood (Jan 11, 2011)

I've found that when doing such large items, I have difficulty moving quick enough to finish a section before it starts to dry and get gummy. Then you'll have slight overlap on pieces you haven't got to yet and it always frustrtates me.

When I have big projects, I usually do all the finishing individually before assembly.

When I had to finish this bar that I built for a customer, I had something like 110+ individual pieces. Did each one separate, then assembled. So the largest single piece is the top, which is small enough that it is easy to maintain a wet edge.









EDIT: however, if it is already assembled.....I work from the inside to the outside, and use painters tape to keep edges clean.

BTW, what do you drive with a 6spd?


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## 6SpeedSD (Jan 21, 2011)

I guess that's the route I'll go them. Paint it on with a brush and wipe off the excess. Hrmm... Maybe I'll just take it to my dad before finishing and let him help! 2 brushes/rags have to be quicker and more efficient than one!

I have a 2004 F-250 with the 6spd. Aside from my wood working tools (and my wife and son of course) that thing is my baby!


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

On cabinets and furniture I've started using a gravity feed paint gun. Be sure to put plastic down and get anything you don't want stained out of the work area. It is kinda messy but great for getting into all the little nooks and crannies. Really quick too.

When I stain a floor I use one of those 6" small foam rollers that you can get at Lowe's. The last floor I stained was 1000 square feet and by myself it took me about 8 hours. I do use a brush on the floors to cut into stuff like door jambs and fireplaces, anything I don't want stain on.


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## 6SpeedSD (Jan 21, 2011)

I didn't think about using a foam roller. That would be faster, and give me better coverage than a brush. 

I was planning on using a gun for applying poly afterwards.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I try to use an oil base stain when I can. It has a long working time and blends easy. I do one piece at a time. I use only a rag to apply. Brushes and rollers carry too much stain, and it still has to be ragged off. Spraying has it's own problems.

For a large panel, I start at one end/edge and stain across/down, and the overlap is not an issue as it happens while wet. I do keep a dry brush ready if staining an assembled cabinet, or staining moulding. The stain is applied and then brushed in with the brush. Always when applying I keep the wet, and the dry rags handy, as they are used in order. 

The wet rag is also used for weakly stained areas, as it may not need to be saturated again before applying.












 









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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

any sealer you put on b4 staining will prevent the stain from penetrating. if you use a oil gel stain it will give you a lot more working time.


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

As far as spraying on stain goes, it apparently works for some people here but personally I use spraying only to get the stain on there quickly. I still go back and brush it to get better penetration then wipe it off with a rag. Maybe there is a particular stain that penetrates well enough when just sprayed?


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

the only time i spray a stain is for color tonning, ( gel stain only ). or stainning a fence outside, witch should be back rolled, or tipped


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Wow there is all kind of information and misinformation in this post. Maybe I can help clear up a little of it. 

As to applying a sealer before stain: It depends on the finish and how much the sealer is thinned. A lacquer or shellac finish is a solvent release type finish and the next coat chemically bonds to the previous coat even without sanding, so glazing and pre-sealing works pretty well. The real trick to applying a sealer before stain is to make it very thin so that the stain still penetrates into the wood, just not enough to cause blotching. This is called a washcoat and is a good idea with any finish. (even over stain sometimes, dye/washcoat/wiping stain)

Polyurethane and varnish finishes are not so good for this because they require a mechanical bond (roughing up the surface by sanding) for one coat to adhere to the next. So if you apply a stain, even with sanding you compromise the adhesion of the finish and it could peel off. 

As for spraying stain. You can spray almost any stain (gel stain is too thick to spray and if you thin it, it is no longer a gel stain ) I work at a large architectural millwork company and we spray all of our stain (we use 2 gal pressure pots and HVLP guns) Dyes, oil based wiping stains etc. The mistake people make when spraying wiping stains is to turn up the atomizing air too high. You can actually use a hudson sprayer (garden sprayer that you pump up) to apply the stain. You don't need to atomize it, just get it on so you can wipe it back off.

Dyes require proper atomization and must be applied evenly. Not too wet or too dry. If you get them too wet they will blotch like anything else. On non-blotch type wood it isn't a problem and dyes can be sprayed on wet and wiped back off just like wiping stains. Then there are different types of dye stain. Water based, alcohol based and acetone based. All of them have different strengths and weaknesses. Water stain is the easiest for the home owner to apply and is also the least light fast of the dye stains. (WD Lockwood is an excellent choice for water based)

If you are using an oil based wiping stain adding a SMALL amount of linseed oil will extend the drying time and give you more time to wipe off your stain. Also with commercial wiping stains I like to thin down with mineral spirits which also gives me more time to wipe. (this also lightens the color)

So I guess what I am saying is everyone is right just for different reasons and for different situations. It is really important when finishing to understand the coating you are using and know what the limitations are before you start, making samples is a good start.

I think this is a good start, we haven't even begun to talk about toning, shading or glazing which can give you even more control over your color and present even more pitfalls.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

i dont use spray as an applicator for stain. its a waist of material, unless your doing production. ben there, sprayed cabinet parts going by on convayer belt, spraying out of 50 gal drums, for hrs at a time.
i apply the gel stain with a through away brush. wipe off. then if the pc is un balanced, i thin the gel 30% tops and tone to even my color. or just make the pc darker. its still a gel stain with a binder, just thinned. the nice thing about a gel is it has more work time , and it will reactivate itself ( within a reasonable time ). blo will work but exteends the dry time by alot.


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

jack warner said:


> the only time i spray a stain is for color tonning, ( gel stain only ). or stainning a fence outside, witch should be back rolled, or tipped


Agree Mays well just dump a gallon of stain and mop it up with your dirty laundry


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

"I work at a large architectural millwork company and we spray all of our stain"

This is exactly why I am leery about just spraying stain. I've worked with too much prefinished stuff that seems to have the stain just laying on the surface w/out much penetration. I am sure there probably are certain products that work better than others but I can't get myself to just spray and leave it at that. 

When you say you can spray any stain that doesn't do much to ease my concerns since I know at least some stains don't penetrate well when sprayed. Is there an added step that helps w/penetration or are there stains that are formulated to spray better?


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

BTW, why the comments on spraying wasting stain? To me it seems to give you more control over how much is used. I've only actually done it on a few booth loads, I normally just wipe it on but when I have sprayed, I didn't notice that it used a lot more stain. 

Like I said I haven't done it much though and that was before I was self-employed so I didn't notice that kind of stuff as much.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

My experience with staining is you still have to wipe off the excess. Wiping off the excess works the stain into the grain. I've never noticed a difference between sprayed projects and projects with the stain wiped on.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Big Dave said:


> My experience with staining is you still have to wipe off the excess. Wiping off the excess works the stain into the grain. I've never noticed a difference between sprayed projects and projects with the stain wiped on.


That is true if you are using wiping stains. Dye stains do not have to be wiped. It would be very difficult to wipe alcohol or acetone dye stains, they are made to be sprayed.

If you get the surface wet enough to puddle slightly the stain will penetrate as much as it is going to, you do not need to spray it on until it flows off like Niagara Falls. The main reason commercial shops spray stain is that it is faster and man hours are everything. There should be no difference in the look of a sprayed on stain if you do it right. You are still applying stain and then wiping it off.

As far as quality I see a lot of shops who do horrible finish work, most of them can be traced back to poor sanding (it is that man hour thing again) just because you are a professional it doesn't necessarily mean you are good.  

We also do very high end work at that architectural shop and I guarantee you the client would not be happy if the stain was not dead on color and perfectly matched over the entire job. 90% of our jobs are sprayed on dye stain. (alcohol based NGR stain) It dries faster and has better clarity.


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## JCCLARK (Jan 30, 2007)

The fastest way for me is to use a rag and just dip
and wipe, I've never used a brush and don't see why 
you would.


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## sketel (Sep 15, 2010)

"just because you are a professional it doesn't necessarily mean you are good.  "

I wholeheartedly agree. That is the problem I have with a lot of pre-finished stuff. Smooth and even but like I said, the color is too superficial so it doesn't hold up well. In other words, a scratch in the finish generally goes through the stain. Dye stains in general don't hold color over time which was another problem we had with prefinished. My experience with pre-finished is 5-10 years old though, not sure if there have been improvements. 

We always finished in-house if the people were willing to spend the money. It was simply a better product than we could order in.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

JCCLARK said:


> The fastest way for me is to use a rag and just dip
> and wipe, I've never used a brush and don't see why
> you would.


i use the 2" throw away brushes. brushes get into corners better, they work the stain in well,they are less messy, and they are easy to dispose of. a brush can blend in when you dont have spray abilities. ther's a few
but i work primarily with gel stains.


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