# Toy box lid not flat



## jnovak (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm building my very first woodworking project after years of reading a couple of different woodworking magazines. I'm building a wooden toy box for my grandson's first birthday.

I picked up some plans from Rockler which has the front, back, sides and top made up of tongue-and-groove pine carsiding. The carsiding is the standard 8" wide stuff.

The woodworking plans don't tell you specifically how to put together the project so I thought it would be easier to cut the pine boards to length (plus extra long for later final cutting) and then glue them up. Once the panels were dry I used my tablesaw to cut them to the proper dimensions.

What I'm finding out is that this carsiding has a tendency to warp and I have some panels (primarily the top/lid) that is slightly warped. I haven't put all the pieces together yet but based on what I currently see I'm concerned that the lid will not sit perfectly flat on the toy box. I still have to put the rail and stile (solid pine trim) around the perimeter of the lid but I'm not sure if that will straighten things out enough.

What is the proper method of doing this project? Should I have planed each of the boards flat before gluing them together (I do have some twisting of the other panels as well)....even though they looked straight before I cut them to length. The lid is approximately 18" wide x 36" long so it's too big to send through the planer now. If I have to I could buy more wood for the lid and rebuild that by planing the boards first (that would give me an excuse to buy a planer also!.

Suggestions anybody? Will the panel/lid straighten itself out once I get the solid wood trim installed around it?

Thanks,
Jeff


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## ~WoodChuck~ (Jan 17, 2009)

Never count on wood straightening out.it usually wont happen. unless it is forced to do so.if the boards weren't straight and flat to begin with then that would be the cause of the problem. also, when you glue up wide panels like that you really need to be careful no to over tighten the clamps uneven pressure will lead to cupping and warping, so you need to keep your eye on the material and what it is doing as you are tightening the clamps. 
If the material was fine when you glued it up and then warped over time then it sounds like a moisture issue. Pine is a very unstable wood and depending on its environment it can do some warping


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## ~WoodChuck~ (Jan 17, 2009)

Never count on wood straightening out.it usually wont happen. unless it is forced to do so.if the boards weren't straight and flat to begin with then that would be the cause of the problem. also, when you glue up wide panels like that you really need to be careful no to over tighten the clamps uneven pressure will lead to cupping and warping, so you need to keep your eye on the material and what it is doing as you are tightening the clamps. 
If the material was fine when you glued it up and then warped over time then it sounds like a moisture issue. Pine is a very unstable wood and depending on its environment it can do some warping 
__________________


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

Time to learn to use a hand plane.


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

Large boxes, like toy boxes and blanket chests often have cleats attached to the underside of the lid to help hold it flat. The cleats may be up to an inch or more thick/wide and are affixed to the bottom of the lid, perpendicular to the long direction with screws in elongated holes (so the lid and move with humidity changes). If you look up a plan for a blanket chest, it will likely have this feature.


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## Wizard1500 (Jul 12, 2009)

Geoguy said:


> Large boxes, like toy boxes and blanket chests often have cleats attached to the underside of the lid to help hold it flat. The cleats may be up to an inch or more thick/wide and are affixed to the bottom of the lid, perpendicular to the long direction with screws in elongated holes (so the lid and move with humidity changes). If you look up a plan for a blanket chest, it will likely have this feature.


But, will adding the cleats straighten a lid that is already glued up?....I ask, because I have the very same problem on a window seat.....


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Unfortunately, even wood that is sold as kiln dried is not always totally dry, and will dry out further once brought into a home environment. Cleats may straighten the lid, and window seat out. In addition you can try putting them in a warm dry environment and weighting them down with something heavy in the hopes that as they dry further the weight will flatten them out. Sometimes successful, and sometimes not. If you find yourself in the position of having to rebuild your piece, buy the wood in advance, and let it acclimatise in the home before starting to work with it.

Gerry


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## Geoguy (Feb 22, 2008)

Wizard1500 said:


> But, will adding the cleats straighten a lid that is already glued up.


If it's not warped too bad, you may be able to flatten it using cauls and clamps prior to attaching the cleats. If it's really cupped badly and you can't physically flatten it, you may have to rip it length wise and reglue it flat. That's my less than expert opinion - maybe one of the pro's on the forum has a better idea.


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## Wizard1500 (Jul 12, 2009)

Please forgive me, I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but like I said I do have the same problem.....my window seat is still out in my shop...cold (north Florida).....last night, I placed the lid on the box and clamped it down, in hope of flattening it some. Before clamping to down, one corner was curled up about 1/4"....diminsions are 24 x 73 1/2 x 3/4.....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Planing won't solve the problem*

Quote: What is the proper method of doing this project? Should I have *planed each of the boards flat* before gluing them together (I do have some twisting of the other panels as well)....even though they looked straight before I cut them to length. The lid is approximately 18" wide x 36" long so it's too big to send through the planer now. If I have to I could buy more wood for the lid and rebuild that by planing the boards first (that would give me an excuse to buy a planer also!.
If the boards were cupped or twisted before assembly, then yes, the should have been *jointed *first, then planed. They should also be glued together with the cups alternating up and down. At this point the boards need to be ripped along the glue joints and reassembled correctly, assuming they are indeed flat when taken a part. Planing only reduces the thickness and will not correct a twist as a *jointer* will.
You can use the top as a side or front where it will be kept in position by the joints, and make a new top using only jointed boards. If this wood has a tendency to twist even after room acclimation sealing the ends with a shellac until assembly may help. Avoid radical changes in temperature and humidity from a shop that is alternately heated and cooled in winter. My advice. bill


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