# Laminate won't stick...



## scootac (Jun 3, 2011)

.... around the edges of my plywood!
I got my plywood cut, got the laminate cut, (with help from the fine folks here!:thumbsup,,, so time to glue it. I did a trial piece, a foot square, routed the edge off,,, looked good! So, on the bigger pieces, 20x22 and 33x22. Put the contact cement on both pieces, put on a 2nd coat on the plywood since it seemed to soak up pretty good, waited ~40 minutes and stuck the laminate on. Used my roller to apply pressure,,, but can't get the edges to stick! Pulled the laminate apart a little and worked some more cement in, then put some clamps to it. I'll see how it looks tomorrow,,,, but what am I doing wrong? Glue amount, drying time before I stick it together, (it's hi 80's here) plywood soaking too much, an inch over-sized the whole way around too much????? I was under the impression it shouldn't need clamped, but it wasn't going to stick without. 
What's the words of wisdom???
THANKS!!!!


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

sounds to me not enough glue. contact cement doesnt need clamping. you only get one shot at it, and if done right you wont be able to lift it.
ply does soak it up. apply to the ply let sit then apply again wait till it feels damn near dry to the touch then press.
thinking more about it apply to the plywood first, with first coat let sit then apply to both pcs, let tack up then lay it on. the lam may have dried to much. it doesnt hurt to double glue both pcs.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I think you are waiting too long and the glue is drying too much. The glue should be only dry enough that it isn't wet to the touch. Another thing is the glue has to be stirred up good.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

What kind of glue are you using? The highly flammable variety has always worked best for me. It's possible that you gave it too much open time.

Good pressure helps make it stick. I use a two handed neoprene covered roller and really try to apply as much pressure as I can. If situation allows, I like to get up on the counter and walk around on it, especially the edges.

You might be able to re-activate the glue with heat. Try using an iron with a towel between it and the laminate. Get it pretty warm and re-roll it. That has worked for me in the past.

Bret


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## Corbin3388 (Jan 22, 2011)

Not enough glue on ply
Or 
Temp. What temps and humidity Are you working in? If ply and glue or one of em are below 70 degrees ( I think) your spinning your wheels.

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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm assuming you are using solvent based contact cement, NOT water based. If the cement is fairly fresh, and you stirred it up (as already suggested) it should be ready to go. 

You can't thin (or shouldn't) solvent based contact cement with anything but lacquer thinner or acetone. Apply an even coat on both surfaces, and allow them to flash dry. I like them a bit more dry than just tacky. I've had surfaces that were totally dry (over an hour) stick like all get out. But good cement gives you 10-20 minutes average (depending on how heavy an application).

If you applied glue, and you decided you wanted a second application on one of the surfaces, that too must flash dry before making contact. If you pry open an edge, and insert glue, and clamp it shut, it likely won't hold. Reason for that is that fresh glue will act as a solvent on the dried glue and soften it. It that case, pry open the area, and dab in glue and allow to dry. Then press the parts together.

If you are using waterbase contact cement, you have my sympathies.












 







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## scootac (Jun 3, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> If you are using waterbase contact cement, you have my sympathies.


Well,,,,
This is what I have,,, looks like the water based.:sad:
http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=48&SubcatID=8

So,,, where do I find the 'good' stuff??? I think this is all they had at Lowe's.

Is this the 'good' stuff?
http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=46&SubcatID=8

I did put 2 coats on the ply, left both pieces dry till 'tacky' to me.
Any way to make the water based stuff work for me???
Thanks All!!!!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Can you tell exactly what isn't sticking?
Is it the contact cement to the ply, the contact cement to the laminate or the contact cement to itself?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

scootac said:


> Well,,,,
> This is what I have,,, looks like the water based.:sad:
> http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=48&SubcatID=8
> 
> So,,, where do I find the 'good' stuff??? I think this is all they had at Lowe's.


Yes it's waterbased.



scootac said:


> Is this the 'good' stuff?
> http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=46&SubcatID=8
> 
> I did put 2 coats on the ply, left both pieces dry till 'tacky' to me.
> ...


Allow more dry time. See what the label says. It takes longer than solvent base cement. If you are inside the house, or in an area with low ventilation, the WB cement is not as smelly. But, if you change to solvent base, you can remove the dried WB cement with lacquer thinner. Or, allow to fully dry and apply over.












 







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## Corbin3388 (Jan 22, 2011)

Green label dap is a terrible product. You would probably be better off spitting on the ply and getting the lam to stick thy way. If you can remove what you can and switch to red label Dap. It will kill brain cells so vent vent vent. If you must use water base I've had really good luck with Hybond.

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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Too long on the drying time. Do the finger string test. Touch your finger to the glue, if it pulls up with "strings" it's not ready. It may only be a couple minutes before it doesn't pull with strings. 40 minutes is much too long. Might be 10-15 minutes in hot weather. You can almost see the glue turn from a shinny wet surface to a matte look. The window isn't long. You can apply another coat to the substrate and laminate you have now, no need to strip it all off or use a different product, that will just cause trouble. Laminate on plywood without a backer sheet will warp.


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## scootac (Jun 3, 2011)

Corbin3388 said:


> If you can remove what you can and switch to red label Dap. It will kill brain cells so vent vent vent.


How do I remove the old without damaging it?
I only have one side of two pieces done, (out of 6 pieces both sides) so I'll get some good stuff to do the remainder. If it's possible to do, I'd rather remove this. How do I get the residue off the laminate and plywood?
I have good ventilation in the workshop, so not a problem with that.


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

Lacquer thinner


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## Corbin3388 (Jan 22, 2011)

tcleve4911 said:


> Lacquer thinner


Yup 
If you find that a piece of the lam is sticking use a heat gun. It will peel right off

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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Corbin3388 said:


> Yup
> If you find that a piece of the lam is sticking use a heat gun. It will peel right off


A heat gun will release the bond for of the laminate for both WB or solvent base cements. I wouldn't suggest using both at the same time. If a heat gun or a dry iron is used, the laminate could get too hot, and bubble. It would also have the propensity to get curly.

Removing laminate can also be done by positioning the panel that's laminated and drip lacquer thinner into the glued area (between the laminate and the substrate) (using a squeeze bottle), and allowing it to dissolve the bond. Just keeping it continually wet by slow dripping will remove the laminate without much effort. Of course this procedure should be done outside or over ground/floor covering.












 







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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

When removing the HPL with the thinner don't put a lot of pressure on the bend of the HPL, it can pop in half. Another way to remove the HPL is a handsaw, use the edge without teeth, while holding the HPL barely away from the plywood just bump the handsaw easy. It will break the HPL away from the plywood. It has worked for me on large applications but not every time, the best and surest way is the solvent.


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## scootac (Jun 3, 2011)

OK, home now and took the clamps off the pieces. One looks good and tight the whole way around, the other has a couple short places gapping. I think I can position the pieces that I should be OK,,,, unless it lifts off worse when I trim the edges.
Off to the store to get the solvent-based kind and some lacquer thinner.
THANKS to ALL!!!:notworthy::clap::thumbsup:


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## scootac (Jun 3, 2011)

Took the green label back, got some red label solvent based stuff,,,, a world of difference! Goes on much nicer,,, seems to dry more evenly over the piece. Put two coats on the ply, one on the HPL,,, waited and stuck them together. Rolled it down,,, looking GOOD,,,no clamping!
Now trying to get one of the other pieces off to re-do it.
Feeling better tonight than last night for sure!:smile:


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## joek30296 (Dec 16, 2009)

Scootac...you'll be plesed with the red label. If you're putting laminate on the edges, make sure you put them on first, then the tops and/or bottoms. That way if you drag something over the edge it won't pull off. BTW, clean up with lacquer thinner or acetone. My 2 cents.

joe


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

I had a similar problem with the green label stuff. I used my fingers to rub the dry glue off both surfaces. Not hard but a real PITA!

Now if I can't use the spray system at school I only use the red label cans.

BTW - The green can stuff is dry in about 5 to 7 minutes and good for about 15. Trying to do the end of a cabinet (2' by about 3') it is almost impossible. By the time that you get the second surface coated and dry, the first surface is too dry to bond.


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