# Got me a turnin' thingy. Jumping in the pool.



## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

OK, you guys have made this look like too much fun and I don't want to miss out. I've had my eye out for a decent used lathe for a while and finally found one for a very good deal. It's a Delta with 14" swing and 3/4 HP. I've read some mixed reviews on this model but so far it checks out pretty solid. I like that the head can swing 45 or 90 degrees. Spent some time cleaning her up today. There was a little surface rust and things were a little creaky from sitting idle but it's pretty smooth now. It may be hard to tell what's going on in the pic but it came with a tool rest arm that goes in the banjo and a second double-dog tool rest. 

Now I need to pick up a few accessories like a chuck (which will cost more than the lathe!) I'm looking at the Barracuda2 or maybe Nova G3 if I can find a good deal. Thoughts? I have a Benjamin's Best starter tool kit plus one of RusDemka's tools (handle project coming up). Wolverine jig in the future too.

I've been reading on the forum and watching lots of videos but still have a lot of questions. Thanks for the support you guys (and gals) give to those of us new. I haven't turned since 8th grade and am very excited that I can again.


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## RusDemka (Jun 9, 2012)

:thumbsup:


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## PhilipCollier (Jan 2, 2012)

Nice lathe.

PCollier -the forever rookie-


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Happy to see you got a lathe. Just be warned - this is the beginning of the expenditures. 

There are a number of threads on which chuck to purchase, such as this one.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/lathe-chuck-33494/

Once you decide, and then get the jaws, it makes it difficult to change to another chuck later. So do the research before you select.

I recommend you also look into a Live Centre. My lathe came with a rather weak, single bearing live centre which did not allow for attachments.

I use this Oneway Live Centre a great deal, and I would hate to be without it. 
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=20245&cat=1,330,49238

The offer is still open if you want to drive up and turn a handle for Rus's tool. I have sufficient tools for you to make all sorts of mistakes - just like I do. :laughing:


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Looks like you found a heck of a good deal on the lathe. :thumbsup:
You don’t say what size the spindle is but if it is 1” or greater (probably 1.25”) I would go with the SN2 over the G3 when considering the Nova line. If going with what they call a reconditioned chuck the SN2 is $100 compared to $90 for the G3 but you get a much heavier chuck with the SN2. I have both and like both.
The Nova service center is 
http://novatoolsusa.com/Reconditioned-Products_c10.htm


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Welcome to the insanity and a big ole money pit. :thumbsup::laughing:


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Thanks all. I'll take a look at these links at lunch. It's 1" 8 tpi and #2 MT. I don't know enough about the difference between SN2 and G3 but will look into it. Sounds like the jaws are the big expense unless you get a package.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Shop Dad said:


> Thanks all. I'll take a look at these links at lunch. It's 1" 8 tpi and #2 MT. I don't know enough about the difference between SN2 and G3 but will look into it. Sounds like the jaws are the big expense unless you get a package.


I just got the Woodcraft flyer in the mail.

Starting on Saturday 29 Sept, they have a NOVA G3 package on sale for $200. Feels like this may be a good deal.

The package includes the body, 50mm jaws, 35mm bowl jaws, pin jaws, mini cole kaws, Chuck key and woodworm screw.

I do not have an opinion on SN2 or G3, since my chucks are Oneway Talons.


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

hurry up and turn something and post pics:icon_smile::icon_smile:


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

Nice purchase dad. (Jealous). Can't wait to see what you turn.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Dave Paine said:


> I just got the Woodcraft flyer in the mail.
> 
> Starting on Saturday 29 Sept, they have a NOVA G3 package on sale for $200. Feels like this may be a good deal.
> 
> ...


Does sound like a pretty good deal. The SuperNova2 looks good at $100 refurb + $20 insert. But it comes with just 50mm jaws. What are most commonly used? I'd like to turn a variety from bowls to pens. Are there two or three used almost all the time and one only used for speciatly situations? What jaws should I add? Figured I would pick up a #2MT pen mandril too. Anywhere to get the Talons refurbed?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Shop Dad said:


> Does sound like a pretty good deal. The SuperNova2 looks good at $100 refurb + $20 insert. But it comes with just 50mm jaws. What are most commonly used? I'd like to turn a variety from bowels to pens. Are there two or three used almost all the time and one only used for speciatly situations? What jaws should I add? Figured I would pick up a #2MT pen mandril too. Anywhere to get the Talons refurbed?


I can see the vortex is already having an effect..

The challenge with jaws is that each set has a range. If you need to hold something too large or too small, then you need a different set of jaws.

For the folks who make the same kinds of items, they may use only 1 or two sets.

I just finished a replacement knob for a #4 Stanley plane. I used the #2 jaws for the Talon. If I had only the larger #3, I would not have been able to hold this piece, it was too small even before I started to turn.

If I had turned a tenon to fit the spigot jaws (smallest set for the Talon), I could have used the spigot.

If I was turning a bowl, I would want to use either the #2 or #3 jaws, depending on the size of the bowl.

Teknatool sell their refurbished items. I have not seen Oneway selling anything refurbished.

Now that you are jumping into the vortex, I highly recommend this video from Mike Peace. This is 1hr and 28min, and a very worthwhile video to watch. I wish I had seen this when I was getting started.

You have turned before, but this video will either refresh your knowledge, or give you new knowledge. I learned some things.

A common aspect of all woodturning is how to hold the wood on the lathe. This can sometimes be a challenge, since we frequently do not yet own the preferred piece of equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUXil-5dEeo

My own vortex caused a split and I went down the vacuum chuck sub-vortex. :laughing:

The pen mandrel is likely to be useful, and not just for pens. I finished my plane knob on a pen mandrel.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Shop Dad said:


> ... But it comes with just 50mm jaws. What are most commonly used?


I've got the Penn State "utility chuck" with loads of different jaw sets.

Mostly I use the "#2 jaws" to grip on a spigot/tenon somewhere between 1.75" and 2.5".

I've only used the #1 jaws ("pin jaws") once, just to hold something till I could fit it into a collet chuck.

The "jumbo flat jaws", a.k.a. Cole jaws, are (and I quote Ernie Conover) "as much use as teats on a bull". Make and use your own jam chuck -- buy the Beall 1" x 8tpi tap and you can thread any piece of wood with a 7/8ths hole in it.

I bought larger 4" jaws for larger bowl blanks, especially if the wood is a bit on the soft side, I had one blank where the #2 jaws crushed the spigot and it took off across the shop ... 

I also bought "pen blank" jaws, used in combination with a drill chuck that has MT2 arbor it automatically centers the blanks and saves buying or making gadgets for the drill press table.

The only downside to the Utility chuck (as I see it) is that it takes 2 tommy bars to tighten it. I will get a chuck that operates with a hex wrench sometime soon (maybe the Grizzly, which John Lucas said is a clone of the Vicmarc chuck.)

Good luck navigating this particular maze ... there's another challenge waiting for you when you escape this labyrinth :laughing:


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## cuerodoc (Jan 27, 2012)

Nice machine!
I have and use the Barracuda chucks both the regular and dedicated larger bowl chuck. Haven't had any problems except when I wanted to do something I shouldn't have--hindsight is 20/20 :yes:


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Yep ShopDad, prepare to be bewildered, even with just one brand and there are several good brands.

I only have experience with the Nova (G3, SN, and SN2’s). What jaws and chuck you need depends on what you want to do. With your 14” swing I would go with the SN2, it is much heavier and allows the use of the 100mm Powergrip jaws (Powergips not suggested for the G3).

The package deal Dave mentioned sounds good and may be what you need but...
The Pin Jaws constrict to about 3/8” and use in bowl form expand from 1”. The nice part is these are replacement for a Pin Chuck. Some competitors have #1 jaw set but they are for small items not for Pin Chucking. Confusing?
Your next set in this package is the 35mm bowl jaws. Guess what, the spigot size is the exact same as the pin jaws set. However, expansion starts at about 1.5” rather than 2”. So all you get is a slightly larger recess (expansion).
The 50mm (2”) the all around work horse…comes with every chuck except the huge Titan.
Mini Coles – may be OK maybe others can answer. I have a set and they have never been out of the package (came with a special offer).

My three most used jaws are (in no particular order)
Pin Jaws. I use these for small items in contraction, I have never used them as 25mm bowl, and I use them in Pin Jaw mode. Pin jaw mode means take a blank, drilling a 25mm hole an inch plus deep, slide the jaws in and expand, turn. Nova means pin jaws as replacing a Pin Chuck not necessarily for small (pin size) items.
50mm Bowl Jaws
70mm Bowl Jaws - Becoming one of my favorite because I can expand in 70mm and when dry re-turn to contract with the 50mm. Or for a large item you can first grip with 100 mm and when dry trim to grip with the 70mm. 

Ok, Ok, more info than you want right now…

What I would go with is the SN2 from the service center. For jaws I would add (from Amazon - free S&H) Pin Jaws - $47 and/or 70mm - $35. This just my opinion and there are other great chucks and other jaws.
I do have the 25mm bowl, 35mm bowl, 35mm spigot, 45mm spigot, and 100mm Powergips but they get less use.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I'm leaning toward exactly what you outlined NCP. Was looking at the 100mm powergrip for range but that leaves too much gap between sizes?

When you all are making a bowl what size foot do you leave? (for example with a 12" bowl) Is that typically the tenon size or done separately?


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Imho most of the consideration is what you want to turn and the style. You can have an artsy bowl (even no foot at all) or a functional bowl. I tend to go with functional and Mike Mahoney’s recommendation of a base between 30-40% of diameter; so my 12” diameter bowl I would shoot for about a 4” base.

Whether you use a tenon or a recess while mounting is up to you. I normally use a recess; others almost always use a tenon. Either can work just fine.

I do have the 100mm powergrips and still use them a lot. If you are anticipating any type of extended length (vase, etc) or hollow form they are often needed to offset the leverage action. The 100’s were my second set of jaws. You can almost always work around sizes; for example you may use the 100mm for a tenon on the rough out and when re-turning use the 50mm either in tenon or recess. 

If you watch lots of videos you may notice that John Jordan uses faceplates a lot and Lyle Jamieson uses glue blocks but both can achieve the base they want with just a little planning. So a wide variety of jaws is not necessary for most applications but they are convenient.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

I agree with pretty much everything NCPaladin says, but ...



NCPaladin said:


> So a wide variety of jaws is not necessary for most applications but they are convenient.


Not sure about "convenient" -- changing jaws can be a real pain in the butt.

_At least, it used to be_ ... last week our turning club had a demonstration of the Easy Wood Tools by Craig Jackson (inventor and owner of the company). He was also playing with his new chuck -- it won't be cheap, but it _will be fast changing_ :yes: Not sure when it will hit the market, but I'm not going to spend any more money on chucks till it gets here.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

duncsuss said:


> Not sure about "convenient" -- changing jaws can be a real pain in the butt.
> 
> _At least, it used to be_ ... last week our turning club had a demonstration of the Easy Wood Tools by Craig Jackson (inventor and owner of the company). He was also playing with his new chuck -- it won't be cheap, but it _will be fast changing_ :yes: Not sure when it will hit the market, but I'm not going to spend any more money on chucks till it gets here.


I think most chucks are fast changing. :laughing:

Now changing jaws is a pain. :thumbdown:

I have two scroll chucks and three sets of jaws, technically 4 if I count the Cole jaws I do not really use.

It only takes a few minutes to change jaws, but like most people this feels to take longer than it actually takes.

So for Shop Dad, he will likely start out with one chuck, like I did, and perhaps most people.

I am really tempted to get a third chuck. Each month I say "next month" and then some other expenditure gets priority.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Dave Paine said:


> I think most chucks are fast changing.


I dunno. It takes me a minute to locate the hex wrench, then unscrew 2 bolts per jaw -- say 1 minute per jaw -- then put the new jaws on (carefully!) and tighten them, another minute per jaw. 10 minutes, not counting the time to put the hex wrench back in a safe place I'll forget by next time I need to change the jaws.

The one that Craig was using took about 30 seconds to swap out all 4 jaws.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I'm surprised they haven't figured that out sooner. It does seem like needless pain. 

What is a "scroll" chuck? Whats the difference between that and say the Nova G3?


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

Shop Dad said:


> What is a "scroll" chuck? Whats the difference between that and say the Nova G3?


AFAIK, scroll chuck simply means that all 4 jaws move in and out based on a single operation. Metalwork chucks usually have independent jaws (each has its own control).

I think all the chucks that've been mentioned so far fall in the category of scroll chucks. Unless it means "key operated" (as opposed to "tommy bar operated") -- in which case my Penn State Utility Chuck isn't a scroll chuck.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

*A Good Day*

Well, after the morning soccer games I got a rare free afternoon. Drove to the Woodcraft in Allentown, PA where Dave Paine and I met up to talk shop and pick up a few things. I got the Wolverine jig and took advantage of the Nova G3 sale that includes the chuck and four jaws. I figured I could pick up a SuperNova2 in the future and either keep or sell the G3, but the jaws would fit both either way.

Many thanks to Dave who helped me take a step further in my understanding of the turning world. Man, the more you know the more you know you don't know. :blink: One of the guys working at Woodcraft was nice enough to chuck up a blank on the Nova DVR they have so we could try out the Easy Wood Tools rougher and smoother. On my shopping list was the cutter for one of RusDemka's tools so I had some questions about using it. Nice to get a minute of observed hands on practice!

Tonight I got a piece of maple scrap on the lathe and did a little testing and practice. Managed to make a lot of shavings but I'm looking forward to getting the wolverine set up and sharpening the tools I have. Now for more practice and learning. Christmas is coming so I've got to get my but in gear! :laughing:


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

*It was a good day*

I did enjoy meeting up with you at Woodcraft. Always good to have a face to go with a name. :thumbsup:

I go to the Allentown store once or twice a month. Always helpful folks. 

FYI, if you have not seen this video by Mike Peace, I highly recommend watching. It is long - almost 1 1/2hrs, but it is very thorough and a professional presentation.

It covers the many different methods of chucking wood on a lathe - sometimes with chucks, sometimes with centres, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUXil-5dEeo

Enjoy the Wolverine and Nova chuck.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I've watched part of the video. Taking it in bites, but yes it is excellent and very helpful. Seriously thinking about taking a day off this week to work on projects and set up.


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Sound like it was a good day at the money pit Shop Dad. :yes:
I received their flyer and have a question on the G3 set. It is probably a misprint in their flyer (and on line) but are the Pin Jaws nickel plated and straight up on the outside with a dovetail set in or are they black with a flare out at the top (as in the ads)? Just curious.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

NCPaladin said:


> Sound like it was a good day at the money pit Shop Dad. :yes:
> I received their flyer and have a question on the G3 set. It is probably a misprint in their flyer (and on line) but are the Pin Jaws nickel plated and straight up on the outside with a dovetail set in or are they black with a flare out at the top (as in the ads)? Just curious.


Oh yes. I had a chunk of change saved up and blew right through it.  I took advantage of every deal I could though. The new flyer took effect that day but they honored the September flyer and I got specials from both, plus I had a "$20 off $200" code they honored. 

I'll have to check the pin jaws since I haven't advanced past the main jaws yet. Is there a substantial difference?


One further update. I've noticed some slippage of the tailstock when cranking down between centers. I believe this is one of the criticisms of this lathe. It's not awful and I can work with it, but I would like to fix that. I've got the bed pretty well smooth, like a table saw top, and I did clean up the mating surface on the tailstock. I'm assuming those should slide freely. I also cleaned up the sliding section under the tailstock that compresses to hold it firm. Now I'm wondering if I should rough that up along with the underside of the bed to provide more friction? I'd appreciate if anyone had thoughts on that.


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Shop Dad said:


> I also cleaned up the sliding section under the tailstock that compresses to hold it firm. Now I'm wondering if I should rough that up along with the underside of the bed to provide more friction? I'd appreciate if anyone had thoughts on that.


There should be a nut (or large allen screw) underneath to adjust the locking plate if necessary. It would take a very small adjustment...maybe 1/16" turn or less. I would try very slight changes, hopefully you can do this with the tailstock in place to feel the difference in how far the locking arm needs to move to lock firmly. It could be the plate is just worn a little.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

NCPaladin said:


> There should be a nut (or large allen screw) underneath to adjust the locking plate if necessary. It would take a very small adjustment...maybe 1/16" turn or less. I would try very slight changes, hopefully you can do this with the tailstock in place to feel the difference in how far the locking arm needs to move to lock firmly. It could be the plate is just worn a little.


+1 on this

I find that the lock-nuts on both tailstock and banjo loosen over time, probably due to vibration.

All I do is move it to the "loose" position then reach underneath and tighten it up a little by hand, no need for a wrench -- remember you still want it to move when it's in the "unlocked" position.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Ok, I had realized that while I cleaned the bed and both surfaces of the tail stock, I hadn't cleaned the underside of the bed. Just checked and it's got lots of grime. I'll clean that up and try again. 

As for the pin jaws, here is a picture. Haven't taken things out yet but they are in the bottom right corner. Looks like the stainless version. Hope that answers your question NCP.


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## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Shop Dad, thanks for satisfying my curiosity. I guess the cat is back.:laughing:
I only ask because I got their flyer and noticed the Pin Jaws did not look like Nova pin jaws, they looked like Woodcraft #1 jaws. Although they look similar they are quite different (I do have a Woodcraft chuck and the #1 jaws also). I assume someone at Woodcraft was just a little lax in attaching the right picture.
Here is a link to the Nova Pin Jaws. They can be used to grip small items, as 25mm bowl jaws, or as a _pin chuck_ as the first line states. Quick and easy mount (especially for natural edge bowls), just drill a one inch hole, insert, and expand. I would not try that with the Woodcraft #1’s.
http://www.teknatool.com/products/chuck_accessories/Pin.htm


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Yup, that's what they look like. Little dark in my picture and you can't really see the outward face, but that's them. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

FYI, the Oneway jaw equivalent of the Nova Pin jaw is called a Spigot jaw, in case you see this in other threads.

Different manufacturers, different names. We poor customers having to know how to translate. :thumbdown:


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