# Any Thoughts on This 24" Planer???



## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

Hello-- 

I found this old, "24 inch, square head planer" (that's what the listing said) while doing a search for local planers on Craigslist. The listing said that they didn't know the brand. 

I had been looking at buying a 20 inch planer, but that guy sold it out from under me, so now the search continues. But, anyhow . . . 

























Anybody have any thoughts on this??? I am currently waiting for a reply to an email I sent asking some basic questions, like does it use single or 3-phase current. The listing says it "works good." And, he is only asking $250.00 for it. 

Thanks in advance for any feedback you would be willing to offer. Nothing is too obvious . . . as I am not experienced with this stuff. 

--redpine


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## troyd1976 (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, looks like he has it all set up to use a fork lift to move it. lol..sorry thats all i got..looks like a helluva machine though!


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Looks like a "real" planer to me.
Check over at OWWM, for info.


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks for your feedback, troyd1976 and Pirate. I'll take anything you've got. 

What I mean is this . . . I know nothing about the internals and functionality of such machines. So, if you have any thoughts as to why I would be nuts (or unwise) to even consider it, I want to hear it . . . though maybe in an non-insulting way. :laughing: 

What I see is a planer that needs some external, structural fixing up, but I know that I have worked with fixing up heavy machinery many times before . . . with having grown up on a small farm . . . and with having a dad and two brothers who are all truck drivers. Plus, metal working and fabricating is something about which I do have some knowledge and experience. So, making a better base with casters is a non-issue. I know I can handle that. I would be able to make a nice, strong base that would allow me to move it around in my shop, which has concrete floors. 

What I am looking for is any input about the machine, itself, and its functionality. So, for example . . . is there something about the fact that it is belt-driven??? Maybe you might say that I wouldn't want that for some reason . . . perhaps they can no longer be replaced, as needed. Or, maybe because it is an older machine . . . you might tell me that those machines were not self-feeding machines . . . or the feeding system were known for going bad, and now there is no way to get those replacement rollers . . . or whatever. Or, maybe the planing quality of those older machines was sub-par. Whatever . . . 

Or just MAYBE . . . you might be able to tell me that the opposite is true in any of those areas . . . maybe those older machines were better in some of those areas . . . or in others areas that I have not even mentioned. 

I would love to get some feedback along those lines . . . if anyone even knows anything about such an old machine. 

Thanks, as always, for any help you could give me. 

--redpine


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## qgranfor (Jul 2, 2010)

Don't know anything about that one myself. But I agree with Pirate above......check out http://www.owwm.org/ site. Those guys live and breath old iron like that.


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks a lot, qgranfor.

I am going to check out that site that you and Pirate mentioned. 

I much appreciate it. 

--redpine


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

1. not sure i see a motor on it, maybe it was externally mounted and belt driven. in that case you can install single or 3 phase of your choice, prob a 5hp or so. 2. wood is power driven, that is the multiple gears on one side. nothing wrong with belts, but can't tell if they are a flat belt style, they may be harder to get then a v belt.
3. i'd definitely want to lay my eyes on it before commit 4. nice old iron, as said, would be nice restored to working condition. i'm sure a custom helical head could be made for it.


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks, TimPa, for your feedback. That really helps. 

Here's the situation, as it currently stands: 

They did not reply to my email, so I just called the number in the listing. I ask him about the motor, and he said that there was no motor on the planer. He said when they used it, they just temporarily (I guess) bolted a motor onto the wooden base with double v-belts. 

I told him that I wouldn't give him the full price without a motor, but I would still be interested. I would just get my own motor. He said he would come down to $200.00 without a motor . . . but that he had the motor he used on it that he would sell for $150.00 as a separate deal. 

He said that it is a used 7-1/2 HP 220v, single phase motor that is in good condition and worked really well on the planer. I guess he had fairly recently used the setup to plane over 1,800 BF of pine boards. He said it all worked good. 

I think I am just going to go for it. 

--redpine


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*Almost sounds to good to be true*

But if it is infact true.... That would be a great deal!

Maybe he will mount the motor, so you can see it perform? :smile:


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## eagle49 (Mar 22, 2011)

I think the square head means it has 2 blades. Which means it doesn;t cut as smooth. I just can't remember. It been 40years. Might be a Cresent,they were made in Latonia, Ohio I do remember that. Hell for that price you probable could scrap it and make money!


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Unless you're prepared to invest a considerable amount of time and money restoring it, I think I'd pass on this deal. First, as you mentioned, it is missing the motor. A quick look on Grainger's site show the cheapest 7 1/2 hp single phase motor at $778!  You could easily find a 3 phase motor cheaper but then you'll have to buy or construct a phase converter. Next add the cost and time to replace the bearings. They're probably babbit so you'll need to learn to repour them. Then there's getting the knives sharpened or replaced, which shouldn't be too bad. And although those flat belts look really nice, they won't be cheap to replace either. Finally, I think I read somewhere that square head cutters weren't as safe as round cutterheads. Not 100% sure on that so you may want to investigate that one.
Although I am a big fan of old iron, I think I'd keep looking. You should be able to locate a nice large Powermatic, Oliver, Newman, Parks, etc in more plug and play condition and have a better parts source should something need replacing. Just my opinion. Worth about what you paid for it.


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

The guy originally told me that he would sell me the planer for $200.00 and a 7-1/2 HP, single phase motor for an additional $150.00. 

Well, now he tells me that his kids sold the motor a few years ago, and he didn't know about it. But, the planer is still $200.00. He said it has some rust on the beds, but only on the beds, as the pictures show. Overall, it is in pretty good shape. He said it had been sitting outside covered for several years. Now, it is UNcovered for the last couple of weeks. I guess that means there will be quite a bit of rust on the beds to clean up. :thumbdown: But, I can deal with that, I guess.

I checked around with some local motor dealers to see if any of them had any used motors. I found a 5 HP-SP for $150.00 and a 7-1/2 HP-SP for $250.00. Both are from a local motor dealer, so you can be pretty certain that they are good motors . . . they may even have a short warranty. But, he specifically talked about how the 7-1/2 was a particularly great motor. He said the brand, but I can't remember what he said.

But, even if I buy that 7-1/2 HP motor, that is still only $450.00 for a 24" planer with a very good 7-1/2 HP-SP motor. So, even if I end up putting in another $150.00 . . . which I don't even know what else I would need . . . that would only be $600.00 for an "all ready to go" (by that point) 24 inch planer with a 7-1/2 HP-SP motor. That is not too bad. 

I do not mind the work part . . . I am no lawyer . . . my time isn't worth anything. :smile: Besides, I don't mind investing some time in fixing something up to benefit myself in the long run.

Thanks a bunch for all of this feedback, so far . . . and, I welcome all future input you care to share.

--redpine


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

For $200, I would buy it, and belt a 7hp lawnmower engine to it, or run it off the belt, pto, on my garden tractor.

I know square head jointers are very dangerous, and I heard insurance companies will not let repair men to work on them.
With your jointer un plugged, stick a finger into the cutterhead, and see how deep it would cut. Now, picture a square head. Your finger would get cut off above the knuckle!!
I think on a planer it wouldn't be a concern.
It could have 4 knives.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Lawyer or not........ultimately your time IS worth something.

To adress one point....the idea of spending time on an old machine.There just ain't anyway to put real numbers on this,UNLESS..you've got experience rehabbin and in some cases re-engineering these sorts of things.

I don't want/need a 24" planer...but thats us.The next guy comes along and really could put it to work.But one things for sure.....IF that showed up here at the shop it would be a VERY simple build.To include a new cutter head.....uhhh 24 " straight bladed heads should be avail.....possibly cheap from someone who's upgraded to a spiral,looking to recoup some of the money.I know of a cpl shops who've been faced with this.They'd pull the trigger on a spiral if the could get 2-3 hundred or so for their old head.

For purists (OWWM),it would remain babbit if thats what it came with.I'd be all over runnin modern bearings like white on rice AND a modern,quick change four blade head.From a biz standpoint,all things consider'd....we'd be way ahead on the $$ here at the estate.Just sayin.....you really need to weigh all the options/potential problems.

I'd say,if you're gonna have to "contract" out very much,if any...machine shop time,it'll be a "bust" on the money.You can get 24" plug N play planers cheaper.BW


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

I went and looked at and fell in love with this big beauty. Wow!!! I can tell it sure was made well. So, I brought it home with me. I will be providing more details in future postings. I don’t really know too much, yet. I will also be including some pictures, at that time, as well. :shifty:

It was just little over a 2 hour drive—one way—but, I will say it was well worth the trip. I am excited to do some “practical restoring” to it. I am prepared to do as MUCH . . . and as LITTLE . . . restoration as necessary to end up with a good, quality, reliable planer.

I want to fix this baby up for the purpose of using it as a hobbyist’s planer. I did not buy it to do any commercial woodworking, of course . . . nor am I someone who has a specific “love” for older planers, per say . . . what I DO have is a vast respect for any older machinery/equipment because I think things were made better back then. :yes:

I want to leave this planer as much original as I can—without adversely affecting its functionality. But, I want to do so for very practical reasons: One, the less I have to change, the less money it will cost me. Two, I think the older equipment was made better, so anything (within reason) made back then is better. Therefore, why would I want to mess with changing stuff and make it have less quality? And three, I do not want to spend forever fixing this up . . . as that will be less time spent beginning my new woodworking hobby. :thumbsup:

So . . . I am very willing to modify and hybrid and fabricate as needed to improve this machine . . . but, only if/as it is necessary. 

I DO have the ability to do almost all of the work that needs doing, myself. And, what I cannot do MYSELF . . . I CAN do with a little help from others who are knowledgeable and experienced in such things . . . like the folks on this forum. 


So, thanks again. :smile:

--redpine


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Ok, how much do you think it weighs and how does your back feel!! :thumbsup: Man that is one big hunk of machinery. I bought a used 15" delta a couple months ago and it is very heavy but yours looks like a hernia in the making. I bet it sends the chips a flying. Congrats!!!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

redpine said:


> *I want to fix this baby up for the purpose of using it as a hobbyist’s planer*. I did not buy it to do any commercial woodworking, of course . . . nor am I someone who has a specific “love” for older planers, per say . . . what I DO have is a vast respect for any older machinery/equipment because I think things were made better back then. :yes:
> 
> So, thanks again. :smile: --redpine


Hey red, You are now the proud owner of a commercial/industrial planer and including the 7 1/2 HP motor I assume... This thing can hurt you and at worst kickback with extreme force. I don't know about the internals if there are anti kickback pawls or one way levers or what ever, but make certain they are in working order.
You do not have a hobbiest's planer. No matter the price, this thing is serious. I searched for planer kickback and found a few references which you might look over to avoid any of the issues that are mentioned: http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=ytff1-tyc7&p=wwod%20planer%20kickback&type=
My largest planer is a 20" 5HP and I have a 13" 3HP that doesn't slow down for anything. I've had a few boards "explode" from knots and grain direction changes. It's a bit scary although nothing came back at me. If I were you I look into replacing the head with a round one, either spiral or straight blades. You don't have a large investment in it at this point so, to increase the safety factor may be worth it. Just be safe around this machine.... :yes: bill
http://www.mlsmachinery.com/onlineCatalog/catalog.asp?cat=1440&auct=0&liq=0&p=3&rpp=10
http://wiki.owwm.com/Clamshell Heads.ashx
BTW enclose the belts and pulleys with guards before you do anything else. Loose clothing or a stumble can get you in a heap of trouble in a hurry.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

I agree with Bill. A planer seems like an intrinsically safe machine, but older ones like that probably (PROBABLY) don't have all the safety features of the newer ones. Older isn't always better IMHO either. Like Bill said, cover them belts. I'd probably start sourcing for belts of that size too, if they've been sitting open for a few years like that I'm guessing they are going to cause a lot of vibration or have some dry rot on them. It would be of great interest and benefit to all of us if you could post your restoration progress as you go. I'd like to see some photos of this square head you mention. I've never seen one. Congratulations on your purchase. When you get this sucker going you'll never want for planing capacity again.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

So, does it have 2 or 4 knives? Sharpening those 24's will cost a bunch. 
Hope they are not carbide! My 3 - 6" solid carbide knives, cost me $32 to be sharpened. That was with no shipping costs.
Bigger toys, cost more to play with!


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

I like it. It's big, it's heavy, it has flat belts. Machines like this remind me of the WWII era South Bend lathes I was taught on.

Would I want it? Nope. That machine would take over 1/2 of my work space. 

I would like to see it being used, though.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Now, all you need is a 24" jointer!


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Redpine, just finished reading your thread on OWWM. You tapped into a great resource there and are on your way to quite an adventure. Congrats on your purchase and have fun with the restoration. Please keep us up to date on your progress too.


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

*Update on the Planer!!!*

Based on Pirate’s and qgranfor’s recommendation, I started posting on OWWM, too. I thought they would be a good, additional resource to you folks here, and they really are!!! They are helpful like the folks, here. Plus, that kind of machine is right up their ally. I will try to keep both groups up-to-date as long as people care to hear the progress. 

I will try to hit some basics . . . and as concisely as I can: 

1. I bought the beast on Saturday for $200.00, but it did NOT come with a motor. However, I found a very good used 7-1/2 HP-SP motor at a local business for $250.00. I am going to get that this week, I hope. That will make the total investment $450.00. Yes, this thing is heavy . . . I guess . . . I never lifted a finger. The guy loaded it with a big forklift, and I unloaded it with my dad’s backhoe. Hee Hee!!!

2. I am also planning on putting on a second motor, as many advised, to independently power the feed rollers. I should be able to get a smaller HP-SP motor for around $50.00 . . . making my price $500.00. (What HP do you think I should have for a dedicated drive motor for this beast, while I’m at it???) My goal here is to be able to run the feed rollers proportionally slow as compared to the planer head. I am hoping to get a nicer finish. I am not intending to use this in such a way where I need “production” speed. But, I would prefer quality . . . as much as can be accomplished from a 2-knife, square head planer. 

3. Yes, it only has a two knife head. The two knives are there, and they are useable, I think. They may have some re-sharpening life left to them; I’m not sure. But, they are both moderately chipped for 1-1/2 inches all the way to the left side . . . better than in the middle. Haa Haa!!! I think they can be made serviceable with a fresh re-sharpening. I have a friend within a 3 mile drive who does blade sharpening for a living (mostly saw blades). I’ll see what he can do with them. I think he charges $0.50 an inch.

3. The wide, flat belts on the left side are purely for the feed system. They are not in TOO bad of condition. But, in our area, belts like that can be fairly readily gotten (custom made for the application) . . . as stuff like that is still used on old farm machinery. But, that won’t matter, as all of that will all be eliminated if I install the second, dedicated drive motor . . . as mentioned above. However, the power input shaft (which is the cutter head shaft) has a single, v-belt pulley on it. I am thinking that I might change that over to a double, v-belt pulley to prevent slippage and get the most out of my 7-1/2 HP-SP motor.

4. Everything moves freely and surprisingly smoothly. It must be those babbit “bearings.” They just feel smooth . . . or something. But, I am guessing they are still in good shape, as they are still tight and smooth. What else is there??? But, if I have to redo something there, I just will. 

I hope I answered everything that was asked about here. I will be posting some better “before” pictures, soon. Then, as soon as things get settled for me and my new students in our new school year, I will be getting started on the “practical restoration.” I am truly excited. 

I am planning on picking up my 8” jointer tomorrow, I hope. Then, I just need a good table saw . . . I have access to an old, low-quality table saw to use all I want. But, I want something better than that. I don’t mind old, at all. But, I don’t like low-quality.

Thanks SO MUCH for all your advice and encouragement. It truly means a lot . . . especially when you are just starting out, like me. 

More to come, soon . . .

--redpine


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That all sounds real good except..*

I didn't see anything about the guards being a prioity. :blink::blink:
The other thing you should consider is that a 2 knife cutter has to spin 2X as fast as a 4 knife cutter for the same no. of cuts per minute.and a smoother finish.
I have a buddy down the road who has an old iron planer with the exposed belts.....it may be a 20" or a 24", I donno? I'll see/ask what type of cutter head he has. He does have a 16" jointer also. 
I'll let you know what he runs for motors and heads.  bill


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

woodnthings . . . yep . . . I do plan on fabricating some guards to cover my double pulleys and v-belts for the main, head motor . . . as well as the belt and pulleys for the dedicated roller feed motor. I just didn't mention every detail . . . it was already a long post. Hee Hee!!! :laughing: 

But, that would be great if you would ask that guy you know any pertinent questions that would help me out. I would much appreciate that. :yes:

With what you were saying about the speed of the cutter head . . . if I were to slow down the feed roller speed by half . . . wouldn't that have the same effect of speeding up the head speed??? I am very curious about all of that. That is why I want the dedicated feed motor so that I can do just that and achieve the highest quality finish with the machine I have. I mean . . . I know you cannot use TOO HIGH of rmp's with babbit "bearings." 

The questions I will need answered: 

1. What would be the maximum RPM's that would be safe with babbit "bearings"??? This would be for the cutter head speed. 

2. What are average board feed rates??? I would want to aim for about half of that, I guess. I know most machines have high and low speed settings. So, what would be an average high and a average low speed setting on a modern, 4-knife head, planer???

Thanks. 

--redpine


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## redpine (Aug 22, 2011)

Pirate said:


> Now, all you need is a 24" jointer!


This is being sold in my area for ONLY $3,600.00 . . . "only $3,600.00"??? . . . GULP!!!  

Do you think this one would do the job, Pirate??? This is a "24 inch jointer" like you recommended. :laughing: 









--redpine


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

redpine said:


> This is being sold in my area for ONLY $3,600.00 . . . "only $3,600.00"??? . . . GULP!!!
> 
> Do you think this one would do the job, Pirate??? This is a "24 inch jointer" like you recommended. :laughing:
> 
> ...





The only problem I see with this machine is it would need a belt guard, I see too many manly "bulging" parts being a bit close for comfort in the operational position.


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