# Lexan surface for a workstation desk ?



## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

Hi ! I have a metal / glass desk that feels too flimsy for me and i want to replace with something solid. I found this:

http://www.benchdepot.com/index32f45.html

But its kind of expensive, and i don't really want desks that are less solid than that - that would defeat the entire purpose for me.

So i started thinking DIY.

I have some experience with making structural stuff out of plywood but i never once had to put any finish on any of my plywood creations - they were all purely load bearing ones. Now with the desk obviously i want a nice surface - it doesn't have to look pretty, but it has to be smooth, durable, easy to clean etc.

my first thoughts were butcher block or stainless steel because those are the premium options on the benchpro desk - but then i decided butcher block is too heavy and SS is too expensive.

so then i thought of lexan. 1/8" lexan laminated on top of plywood desk surface would be light, reasonably priced ( compared to stainless steel ) and sufficiently durable ( i want to be able to stand up on the desk if i need to )

but lexan is clear - which can get really ugly ( in the literal sense of that word ) once i start gluing it to the plywood.

so my question is - can i make it look good ? could i make it look like the glossy black glass of the apple iMac that will be standing on it ?

thanks in advance !

ps: i am thinking to not use Corian due to cost and weight


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I cannot think of a product that would be much worse than laxan for what you want. Thickness for thickness it is not lighter than wood and does not have as much strength.

But, durability is where it really fails. It scratches and look bad at the slightest thing.

George


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

GeorgeC said:


> I cannot think of a product that would be much worse than laxan for what you want. Thickness for thickness it is not lighter than wood and does not have as much strength.
> 
> But, durability is where it really fails. It scratches and look bad at the slightest thing.
> 
> George









 
+1. Lexan and Plexiglas both will scratch. A much less expensive alternative would be to use 1/4" glass. If the surface under it is flat (plywood or MDF painted black), you could stand on it. BTW...What are you doing on top of your desk? Is there a YouTube video available?:laughing:












 







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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Lexan*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexan

Unlike Plexiglas, Lexan won't crack or shatter. I have a piece about 30" x 40" by 1/8" thick, covering the cooking surface of a ceramic cooktop. It get dishes and pots stacked on it daily. It is clear and durable. It will scratch, but not easily. I wouldn't "laminate" it, but secure it with a few tabs of silicon, small pieces of 2 sided tape or countersunk screws. As it ages and gets worn you can flip it over for a fresh surface. It was expensive from a automotive and residential glass repair service. It was difficult to find in other than a 4 x 8 sheet. Sign companies use it also. It has no strength in thin sheets, only offers protection and would be OK to write on, better than a painted wood surface.
If you want just a clear high gloss finish, consider a pour on "bar top" epoxy. The substrate must be rigid however or the epoxy may crack. JMO.  bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Unlike Plexiglas, Lexan won't crack or shatter.


Lexan (polycarbonate) can crack and shatter. It's actually more brittle than cast acrylic sheet. You have to fabricate with it to know its limits. 












 







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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

well i have 3 experiences with polycarbonate to draw on:

1 - compact disc - i tried to break one with my hands - i managed to fold it in half but it never broke

2 - carafe from a commercial vitamix blender - it seems less than a millimeter thick and frankly i expected it to shatter as the kilowatt motor of the blender pulverizes ice cubes ... but with all the extremely loud banging of the ice cubes on the carafe nothing ever happened to the carafe after all

3 - fog light from my car - i hit the tread of a truck tire at 80 mph with the fog light taking the hit and going all the way through the bumper ripping out its supports and hanging by the electrical wire - the lens of the fog light was about half a millimeter thick and there was not a single crack in it

in other words in all instances Lexan couldn't be destroyed and in 2 out of 3 it wouldn't get even a hairline crack from all the abuse. the CD did show cracks when i folded it in half.


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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> A much less expensive alternative would be to use 1/4" glass.


true. but 1/4" glass would be 5 times as heavy as 1/8" lexan and if somebody dropped lets say a heavy glass bottle on it - it could still crack.

i have chipped off the corner of my 1/2" thick glass table by accidentally hitting it with the bottom of a glass of water that i was drinking.

lexan has 30 times the impact resistance of glass at 1/2 the weight.

i do realize glass is FAR superior when it comes to scratch resistance but i am willing to live with the scratches. i am mostly concerned with function here.


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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexan
> 
> Unlike Plexiglas, Lexan won't crack or shatter. I have a piece about 30" x 40" by 1/8" thick, covering the cooking surface of a ceramic cooktop. It get dishes and pots stacked on it daily. It is clear and durable. It will scratch, but not easily. I wouldn't "laminate" it, but secure it with a few tabs of silicon, small pieces of 2 sided tape or countersunk screws. As it ages and gets worn you can flip it over for a fresh surface. It was expensive from a automotive and residential glass repair service. It was difficult to find in other than a 4 x 8 sheet. Sign companies use it also. It has no strength in thin sheets, only offers protection and would be OK to write on, better than a painted wood surface.
> If you want just a clear high gloss finish, consider a pour on "bar top" epoxy. The substrate must be rigid however or the epoxy may crack. JMO.  bill


excellent idea with respect to screws ! why didn't i think of that myself ? for some reason i assumed i had to glue it permanently, but i think it would be much better to just put it on top of the plywood and secure it from moving around with a dozen or so countersunk screws as you said.

that said isn't lexan a thermoplastic ? how do you keep it from melting on top of your cooktop ?


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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Lexan (polycarbonate) can crack and shatter. It's actually more brittle than cast acrylic sheet. You have to fabricate with it to know its limits.
> .


ok so for my application what would you do ?

i think glass is a contender. i think aluminum could be a contender as well. i still think lexan is better than both but i would be glad to hear your arguments.

compared to lexan both aluminum and glass feel colder to the touch, and also glass chips and aluminum dents ... but once again, i am not insisting on that


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

proteus said:


> true. but 1/4" glass would be 5 times as heavy as 1/8" lexan and if somebody dropped lets say a heavy glass bottle on it - it could still crack.
> 
> i have chipped off the corner of my 1/2" thick glass table by accidentally hitting it with the bottom of a glass of water that i was drinking.


I've fabricated commercial bar tops made with 1/4" mirror. If glass has a place to deflect, it can break, If there is a scratch out to the edge, it can break. But, I've gotta tell you that the sample I made up to sell the job went through some aggressive testing by the bar owner. He wanted to see what damage a glass bottle or glass ash tray (that was when you could smoke indoors), would do wielded by some drunk. He smacked the mirror many times, and no damage. 

I've built many showcases for jewelry and optical stores using 1/4" glass, with no problems. I'm not saying that glass doesn't break, because we all know it can. If fabricated correctly, damage is minimized drastically.

As for your luck with polycarbonate, some shapes and thicknesses of the material lends to its inherent flexural properties. Sheet goods subject to machining, like routing, drilling, or being shaped, can crack and shatter. If you have fabricated with the material you might have had that experience.












 







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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I've made tool guards from Lexan*



cabinetman said:


> Lexan (polycarbonate) can crack and shatter. It's actually more brittle than cast acrylic sheet. You have to fabricate with it to know its limits.
> .


I've made blade guards for my RAS with it just because it won't shatter on impact. I've also worked with Plexiglas. Lexan is far superior in terms of machining, drilling and cutting. It will bend before it "shatters". I've drilled holes to within 1/8" of the edge with no shattering, whereas Plexiglas has shattered under the same condition. In my experience it is not more brittle than acrylic and I found this out the hard way by actually using both.

There are obviously different grades.

Quote from link: 
_ Applications are mainly in three domains–building (glazing and domes), industry (machine protection and fabricated parts) and communication and signage. Common usages include space and sports helmets, clear high performance windshields and aircraft canopies, and bullet resistant windows.
_
So, I don't know about your experience using Lexan since there were no examples or scenarios, but it differs significantly from mine and apparently from the industry, since it will work for high impact conditions like helments and bulletproof glass and for glazing replacements in doors and windows to prevent breaking and entering. 

As for my using it as a protective cover for a cooktop, which is not used for cooking. It's electric and I prefer gas which is on the adjacent counter, I built in both in case a woman came along who preferred one or the other and or we have a party where we need 11 burners.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

I'm in the lexan (polycarbonate) corner. Will not crack or shatter. If you have had some that did, somebody slipped you acrylic. If in doubt, smack it with a hammer. Acrylic will go to pieces but polycarbonate will just bounce around a little. It does have a lower melting point than acrylic though, I've welded router bits to it more than once by not keeping up a brisk feed rate, usually cutting discs of the stuff.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> So, I don't know about your experience using Lexan since there were no examples or scenarios... but it differs significantly from mine and apparently from the industry, since it will work for high impact conditions like helments and bulletproof glass and for glazing replacements in doors and windows to prevent breaking and entering.


To answer your question, my experience included sneeze guards for restaurant salad bars, bullet proof windows for teller windows in banks and credit unions, miscellaneous furniture pieces on yachts, and residential and commercial use. I dug up some old photos, Some of the clear pieces don't photograph too well. These are just a few.

Picture of the mirror bar top.
.
Polycarbonate shelving unit and table.
.
Plexiglas table, lamp and side table.
.
Scale model of condo 1/8" scale in Plexiglas. Top left of picture a monofilament string lamp in Plexiglas (my start was with lamps).
.
Plexiglas bar stool.












 







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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Picture of the mirror bar top.
> .
> Polycarbonate shelving unit and table.
> .
> ...


those photos look pretty old. my polycarbonate experience is with polycarbonate manufactured in the last 2 to 6 years or so. maybe polycarbonate has gotten better ?

you still didn't mention how you actually got it to break though ?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

proteus said:


> those photos look pretty old. my polycarbonate experience is with polycarbonate manufactured in the last 2 to 6 years or so. maybe polycarbonate has gotten better ?
> 
> you still didn't mention how you actually got it to break though ?


Fracturing and shattering usually when machining, by slip of the hand, or force feeding. Polycarbonate never claimed to be unbreakable. It does have a high threshold to impact resistance, which is attributed to its flexural characteristics.

But getting back to your post, you could use Lexan Marguard which is a coated polycarbonate used for stuff like boat windshields that use wipers. Or, as I suggested use 1/4" glass.












 







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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

My experience with Lexan/polycarbonate is that it's amazingly tough stuff. About 30 years ago I used it as side windows in a drag race car. I took a scrap piece and deliberately bent it in half to break it and couldn't. It's much, much tougher stuff than plexiglass, which can crack all to heck just when you try to drill a hole in it.

At the school district I taught at, maintenance would replace frequently broken windows with Lexan as SOP. That ended the breakage problem. It will scratch, though. 

Here's a pretty good write-up: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-polycarbonate.htm and here's a video testing Polycarbonate vs. acrylic. 



 I liked the shotgun test the best!

Bill


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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Fracturing and shattering usually when machining, by slip of the hand, or force feeding. Polycarbonate never claimed to be unbreakable. It does have a high threshold to impact resistance, which is attributed to its flexural characteristics.
> 
> But getting back to your post, you could use Lexan Marguard which is a coated polycarbonate used for stuff like boat windshields that use wipers. Or, as I suggested use 1/4" glass.
> .


that margard does seem nice ! but unfortunately its double the price of regular. the high price in this case defeats the purpose for me because for the money i might as well go stainless steel already.

how much do you think a custom cut 36" x 90" x 1/4" piece of glass would cost delivered in Brooklyn ? and if i try to pick up a piece of glass like that - can it snap under its own weight from being so long and thin ?

one reason i like lexan over other alternatives is that not only would it not break when ON the desk, but also in transportation. i actually want to make the top of the desk from 3 parts ( for ease of transportation ) but have a single sheet of material for the surface.


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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

ok new contender material ! UHMW ( ultra high molecular weight ) polyethylene

this stuff is cheaper than lexan and has higher impact, abrasion and chemical resistance:






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene

it seems to be available in black


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Not to beat a partially dead horse*



cabinetman said:


> To answer your question, *my experience* included sneeze guards for restaurant salad bars, bullet proof windows for teller windows in banks and credit unions, miscellaneous furniture pieces on yachts, and residential and commercial use. I dug up some old photos, Some of the clear pieces don't photograph too well. These are just a few.
> 
> Picture of the mirror bar top.
> *(either polycarbonate/ Lexan or cast acrylic/Plexiglas)*
> ...


The 4 examples you quoted were obviously Plexiglas, not Lexan, so I'm confused. 
However, I stand by my statement, that in *my experience *Lexan/polycarbonate sheet is impact resistant, shatter proof, flexible, machines well and so forth as opposed to Plexiglas/cast acrylic. Tool and saw guards made by Biesemeyer are described as Lexan: http://www.mikestools.com/biesemeyer-table-saw-blade-guards_1407.aspx
Quote: 
Biesemeyer T-Square Table Saw Bladeguard System No more hassles! No more production slow downs! The T-Square Table Saw Bladeguard system protects woodworkers during most sawing operations without sacrificing production time. Designed to fit most sizes and makes of table saws with the T-Square System . The counter balanced weight allows end of board to feed under the cover. The* Lexan *blade cover offers good visibility and can be moved side to side to position it precisely. Note: 78-960 & 78-955 guards come with anti-kickback spreader compatible with Delta Unisaw, Contractor, and Tilting Arbor saws. Spreaders for all Blade guard will work on Biesemeyer Fence systems and Delta Contractor's Saws. If your brand of saw is not listed, you can order a ceiling mounted or floor mounted model. 

A few links that describe the properties for others here to read:

http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Mirrored_Polycarbonate_Sheet
http://www.professionalplastics.com/PLEXIGLASS-ACRYLICSHEET-CAST
http://lexanpolycarbonate.com/

I'm not necessarily advocating that Lexan is the best solution, just pointing out the difference in properties between Plexi and Lexan. 
I too have had a glass top table nicked by an errant object. I changed it to 3/4" marble. I find any metal to be cold and unfriendly to work on especially to rest your arms or hands upon. A solution might be a synthetic quartz top like Zodiac which I have through out my kitchen and on a movable island.
It is pricey and you may find an off fall at a supplier for a reasonable price, I donno? 
High Pressure Laminate/Formica... not bullet proof, if that's a requirement. :laughing: bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> The 4 examples you quoted were obviously Plexiglas, not Lexan, so I'm confused.


So, what's your point? The corner etagere unit shelving was in polycarbonate, and I did list areas of work that were done with Lexan, and other brands of polycarbonate. I showed pictures of varied applications of using acrylics. I'm not contending that there are no differences between cast acrylic sheet (Plexiglas) and Polycarbonate (Lexan). I've worked with both extensively and am aware of the differences.

The picture with the glass mirror top was just to show I don't blow hot air.



woodnthings said:


> However, I stand by my statement, that in *my experience *Lexan/polycarbonate sheet is impact resistant, shatter proof, flexible, machines well and so forth as opposed to Plexiglas/cast acrylic.


With all due respect, I agree that in your experience you may not have had the opportunity to experience the limits of their properties. 

What you will find out is:

Plexiglas has a degree of impact resistance, but not equal to Lexan. 
Neither are shatterproof.
Both are somewhat flexible. 
Both can machine well if done properly.

This whole discussion about Plexiglas and Lexan was from the OP's suggestion to use a sheet of Lexan to be a desk cover. I doubt seriously that anything other than abrasion would be a significant determent to using either Plexiglas or Lexan. For those that are under the assumption that polycarbonate won't crack or shatter just haven't experienced it *yet*.












 







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## proteus (Sep 30, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> This whole discussion about Plexiglas and Lexan was from the OP's suggestion to use a sheet of Lexan to be a desk cover. I doubt seriously that anything other than abrasion would be a significant determent to using either Plexiglas or Lexan.


yes i think abrasion is the only problem there. my vitamix blender container is all covered in fine scratches. my older kitchenaid blender had a glass jar and no such problems AT ALL.

so that's where UHMW polyethylene comes in - its used for applications like gears and truck bed liners so it definitely has high performance when it comes to abrasion.

only problem wiht UHMW PE is that poly has a low melting point - does that mean something like a circular saw could get welded to it ? would this material be dangerous to cut ? ( i would probably be using 1/4" or 1/8" )


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## joek30296 (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm in the glass group....mainly because Lexan scratches so easily. Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet...have glass cut to the size you need and then have it tempered. You can't cut it after tempering. Granted, it will still break (shatter into a billion little pieces!) but will be more impact resistant than just glass alone.
Just my $.02.

Joe


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

joek30296 said:


> I'm in the glass group....mainly because Lexan scratches so easily. Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet...have glass cut to the size you need and then have it tempered. You can't cut it after tempering. Granted, it will still break (shatter into a billion little pieces!) but will be more impact resistant than just glass alone.
> Just my $.02.
> 
> Joe


Tempering does add some strength. It's more expensive that plate glass. In using tempered glass, give the finished size of what is needed to the glass company that will be doing the tempering. They will likely want to use their own stock. The reason for this is that once glass is tempered, it shrinks. So, what they do is compute from your supplied dimensions what you want to wind up with and cut the size accordingly.

For this application I wouldn't think tempered glass would be of any benefit. Regular untempered plate glass is used all the time over wood desk tops. If the glass sits on a flat surface and has no ability to deflect, it's unlikely that it will break...even from standing on it. The edge should be dressed, because that's where a tiny scratch out at the edge can be a weak start to a crack. 












 







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