# I have logs....now what?



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

I've been slowwwwly learning about the idea of harvesting some of my own wood from our 10 acres. Sadly this didn't occur to me when we cleared the spot for our house 2 years ago. But oh well.

We just yesterday cut down some trees, I think they're oak. Some of them are about 1 ft diameter or larger, and mostly straight. I had planned to cut them into 8' lengths and (try) to haul them onto my trailer with my 4 wheeler. Geez those things are heavy.

I've called local mills, and the one I actually talked to said that they charge $300/hr of sawing if I bring in my own logs. 

So, if I have them do this, and saw this stuff into boards for some completely unspecified purpose in the future...is there some specific way they should cut it? I'm just assuming I have them make 1" planks.

This is going to end up taking a lot of room. I have an outdoor covered area (a pole barn with no sides) I could use for drying them...is that a suitable environment, what with rain, winter, etc? I've been told this could take years to dry sufficiently...and thats ok with me, thats about when my skill level will justify the use of it! I know I need to paint the ends with some kind of sealant so they dry slower.

Is it worthwhile to find a mill with a kiln, if possible? Does kiln drying buy me anything other than time? Does it produce better wood?

The mill owner said I had about a month to bring the log in once it was cut before bugs would start getting into it and causing problems.

Sorry for the questions, if they've been asked elsewhere ( I scanned the forum for newby type posts), but its very quickly gone from theorhetical to cut trees...so the clock is ticking.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

beelzerob said:


> I've called local mills, and the one I actually talked to said that they charge *$300*/hr of sawing if I bring in my own logs.


That is a mistype right...you meant $30.

...if it is $300, the rest of your questions are moot because you would be wasting time/money to get them milled.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

THAT'S why I came to this place! No, it was definitely $300/hr, but you only pay for the time it takes to saw the log. He said a typical 8' log would only take about 5 minutes....so if true, then that'd only be $25 to have a lot of large planks. I figured per boardft, that was pretty good (considering the local home depot is charging about $8/bdft.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

If he is sawing a log in 5 minutes, he is running a circle mill. Your little 12" logs are going to be nothing but sawdust with that wide kerf blade. Even on a bandmill a 12" log is small and yields very little. Especially in both cases since you said


beelzerob said:


> ... mostly straight.


 Small and not dead straight = way less.
And he said "typically" that could mean yours "unexpectedly"shifty took 30 minutes..
You are not even sure what species you cut down


beelzerob said:


> We just yesterday cut down some trees, I think they're oak.


Man I hate to keep beating you up here, but...if you have 10 acres and want to get started at this you should ask a few questions before you go killing trees. We can answer forestry questions too, like "Hey what kind of tree is this" (with a picture of the live tree) and "If I wanted to harvest some timber how could I go about doing it that is a benefit to me and my timber stand"


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Hahah...man, I'm impulsive about somethings, but not about this! 

The trees were actually cut down just to clear an area for other purposes. I didn't know exactly which trees were gonna go down up there, or when, so once they were cut I went up to take a look, and noticed they were pretty big. I said probably oak because we have almost all hickory up here, a few maples, and then up on the top of the hill are where the only oaks are, and the bark didn't look like any of our more common trees.

The saw mill said that 8-9" was the smallest diameter that was worthwhile to do. And ya, I realize I could be running a risk with it being on a time basis. He also told me that if theres metal in the wood (however it got there) I'd end up buying them a new blade for a couple hundred dollars. Given where these trees were there seems little chance of that....though for much cheaper than a couple hundred, I could probably afford a metal detector and have some peace of mind.

I'll be able to talk to the other nearby mill Monday and see how they compare. I guess the 3rd option is to try and find someone who can bring the mill to me...but I'm not talking about a lot of wood here. I've got to get all the trees on the ground first (the largest one is still hanging up).

So sorry if I came off sounding like I was jumping into this headfirst and needing a bailout. After seeing the sticker shock at the big box store for real solid wood, I became much more interested in using what I had on my property.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

beelzerob said:


> The trees were actually cut down just to clear an area for other purposes.
> ... I became much more interested in using what I had on my property.


Well that is a good start, you kinda left the part out they had to come down for other reasons (why I got flustered)...and I would shop around for another guy to mill your logs :yes:. The clock is not ticking as fast as the $300/hr guy (and couple hundred per blade) would have you to believe. Check here


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## junkhound (Nov 6, 2009)

With the prices :no: you quoted, i think that i would get a second and even a third price from another mill. JMO

Junkhound


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Ya, he was just the first guy I got ahold of. I clearly need to ask more questions. This guy and the other one that I'll talk to Monday were out of the yellow pages and the woodfinder website. I was already looking on your website. The first links didn't find anything overly close. I'll try that mobile mill reference though and see if I can find someone nearby.

Once I get more info I'll post again, no doubt with more questions.!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

beelzerob said:


> He also told me that if theres metal in the wood (however it got there) I'd end up buying them a new blade for a couple hundred dollars.


I'd steer clear of the guy like Daren and hound have suggested. He's not being honest with you. He can get a blade hammered and maybe a minor insert socket repair or two done for that perhaps, but if he wrecks the blade which ain't all that hard to do id one of your trees has a spike (deer hunters don't care about $2000 saws), a new 56" carbide-tipped saw starts at ~ $2000. Did he tell you that? :no:


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

wow!! The mill i used to buy my lumber from (before i got my own mill) is expensive but the mill you referred to top their prices by far. I think the paying for the blade in case of a metal encounter is common. band mill blades are only about 20 bucks maybe a little more if you have a guy with a bigger mill. good luck with your endeavor i hope you can put your timber to good use at a decent price. BTW welcome aboard


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Well, leaf analysis leads me to believe that the big one (16" dia) is a northern red oak, and the other less big ones are white oaks. In fact, I have yet to find a hickory around here, and I thought that they were ALL hickory! A little late in the game to finally be learning this stuff, but oh well.

Contacting local/nearby mills hasn't gone well so far. The one I have been able to talk to is 80 miles away. They're really friendly, and I think I'm going to make a trip out there to visit just to see the operation, but it doesn't seem very practical for sawing up logs of such small size as mine. There is a mill much closer but I have yet to have anyone answer the phone.

So, amusingly, I'm kind of coming back to square 1, which is to use my grizzly bandsaw to cut what I can out of these trees (and other ones we've already fell) just to have some wood pieces to play with. Clearly if I need larger boards for some future project, I'll have to go to a mill, but even 80 miles isn't too far for a one-time project purchase.

I'm going to get the riser block for the grizzly, and a good timberwolf blade for the cutting, and a good support system and sled for holding the log, but eventually it's going to come down to the question of what type of cut. I've only recently come to understand what exactly quartersawn is, and that there are some structural and drying benefits to cutting it that way, but I'll certainly not get many wide boards out of...maybe 6-8" if I'm lucky. But I guess it also results most often in the prettiest grain structure too, right?

I'm just looking for wood to make little boxes and little projects....learning type stuff, but also gifts and such. I have no idea at this point if red or white oak is good for that, though it seems kind of an all purpose woodworking staple wood.

What do you usually use to determine if you should quartersaw a log or plain saw it? Do you do a mix of both types on a single log?


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

beelzerob said:


> What do you usually use to determine if you should quartersaw a log or plain saw it? Do you do a mix of both types on a single log?




Your logs are too small to 1/4 saw. (on a sawmill anyway, shop bandsaw for very small projects might work) But even just flat sawn you will get a couple 1/4 sawn boards from the center.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Daren said:


> Your logs are too small to 1/4 saw. (on a sawmill anyway, shop bandsaw for very small projects might work) But even just flat sawn you will get a couple 1/4 sawn boards from the center.


Heh..ya, I looked at the diagram for cutting the log and noticed that too. And if quartersawn really is nicer in some ways, then that also makes it my largest board.

Ok then, so I guess I would do quartersawn when the log is large enough that from early on in the cutting I'm getting as large a board as I can cut from the log. So really something like 24" diameter or larger, so that in quarters it would just barely (or need some trimming to) fit in the bandsaw capacity.

Next question would be what size to cut. I had thought 1" would be a good all-around size to go for. Are there reasons to cut larger, like 2"? I thought I had heard that a somewhat thicker stock will be less prone to warping. And then I could just resaw it thinner later if needed, right? I guess drying would just take longer.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

beelzerob said:


> I had thought 1" would be a good all-around size to go for. Are there reasons to cut larger, like 2"?
> 
> I guess drying would just take longer.


Yea, you want some 2", for table legs and what not.

:yes: The thicker the wood, the longer to dry.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Ok, it took a while, but I finally got ahold of someone listed in woodfinder.com, and they're the closest to me. He's a small operation apparently, but he's got a kiln. He said that he would cut and kiln dry the wood for me for 70 cents/bd ft. Considering its $7/bd ft at Home Depot, this really seems pretty reasonable for red and white oak.

Am I finally in the ballpark?

He says he has a good selection of other wood also, so I think I may have found my wood supplier for future projects!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

beelzerob said:


> . . . He said that he would cut and kiln dry the wood for me for 70 cents/bd ft. . . . Am I finally in the ballpark?


I wouldn't mill and dry for that but it's a buyers market and that could be the rate. He must be extremely efficient. Do you have any references? Have you talked to him yet? Are you in Amish country? Just sounds cheap to me but I don't custom saw anymore so what do I know could be the rate these days.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Ya, I just talked to him on the phone. No, no references...there's a dearth of local knowledge, at least so far as I can find. He's got a decent website, though it still has 2009 prices listed. It's Irvin's sawmill and gallery of wood. Nice guy (but since moving to PA from AZ I'm learning that being nice is actually COMMON here).

I'm kind of in Amish territory...or at least within a short drive of it. Our house was framed by the Amish, but they do most of that out here, usually for some other contractor.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

beelzerob said:


> Am I finally in the ballpark?
> 
> He says he has a good selection of other wood also, so I think I may have found my wood supplier for future projects!


:yes:, Yea much better milling rates and you found a mill for future lumber purchases.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Well, the first post was inaccurate...I didn't have logs, I just had downed trees. This weekend they become logs. 

It looks like I'm getting setup to take the logs to the mill this weekend. 

I've identified the largest one as a northern red oak.








and I believe the remaining 3 (all smaller) are chestnut oaks.








So the question I have is....are there any particular cuts I should have him make, or should I just tell him to plainsaw it all in 4/4? I imagine he'll probably know better how to cut it than me, so I'll ask his opinion.

If I have any potential project I can think of for this wood, it is a built-in computer desk in our loft. Not a free-standing desk, but attached to the wall. I did one in our last house out of birch plywood, and we liked it a lot. We haven't come up with the design yet, but it's still the biggest future project I can think of that would use a lot of wood.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

And tonight we finally came to the end of the story...









That's the oak that resulted from the logs. The miller said it was right at 300 bdft. From what I could tell, the boards were pretty straight, and some of them were durn pretty. All of the boards were mixed together, and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to tell the red oak from the chestnut oak, but at least out in the sunlight, the red oak was obvious....a subtle pink color.

It was $0.70/bdft from logs to kiln-dried as I have it now. While that's a pretty good deal for around here (and even neater that it was trees from my own property), it actually makes it the most expensive wood we have now...more than the cherry, walnut, and other wood. That's just because of the tremendous success weve had at auctions picking up wood.


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