# Garage/workshop ideas and construction



## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Has anyone used pole construction for their garage/workshop? I am curious how well you guys like it versus traditional framing.

Also, is there a need to keep a shop heated or cooled when not occupied to protect cast iron tops? I would have heating in it for when it is occupied.

I don't plan to put water in the building so I don't have keep it heated. I would just keep a gallon of water for the few times I might want to use my bench grider.

I am just looking for recommendations for when I decide to build, or have build, the garage/workshop.

How are you guys doing electrical hookups? I was thinking of a 200 amp breaker box with several 220 volt circuits that would be dedicated to certain equipment. I would use 10 gauge wire on all of them, so that any could be converted to 30 amps if needed later on by just changing the breaker and the outlet. I would have 110 V 20 amp outlets around the building.

I am looking at a 30x36 building. The garage part would only be housing our tractor and a low profile trailer. The rest of the building would be workshop.

Comments?

Mark


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## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

I built a free standing building for my workshop, and it was a PITA. I wish I would have put up a wood framed building. 6x6 Posts, and 2x6s to tie all the posts together (treated for the bottom) and 2x12 to hold the trusses. 

You don't have to heat the building, but if you are going to heat the building you need to insulate the roof. If you don't the building will sweat and drip water on all your tools. You can always insulate the sides later, but its best to insulate the roof during construction than after construction. 

My shop runs on a 100 amp service without any problem, but if I was running a new service, I would definetly do a 200 amp service. 

I ran electrical outlets every five feet. I put in a ton of lights, and a lot of windows. As much natural light as possible.


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## chubbyhubby (Mar 7, 2010)

*Your location matters*

Although my shop is in a heated basement, I have heard of people having problems with a shop that's only heated part-time. IIRC, it had to do with condensation with each temperature cycle. If your cast iron is warm, it will have surface moisture when it gets cold. I've worked in machine shops that didn't want to run the heat on weekends during the winter. Monday mornings, every cast iron table that wasn't oiled down had flash rust. You didn't mention your location, I think that may matter. CH


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

My location is Winfield. What temperature should I set a thermostat for if I decided to heat it to prevent any condensation?

Mark


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

I have a post and beam shop/garage (26x36). It's basically a pole foundation with standard stud walls built on top. I live in the northeast (big temp changes) and I'm extremely impressed with this building. It has been very stable, the walls are easily insulated, and it was cheap to build.

Posts are set every 8 ft and sandwiched between treated 2x8's on each side. Cut the posts off level and cap with treated 2x8's. The top is a standard stud building.

The concrete was poured after the building was up (during a rainstorm - all inside) for 2K.
The building was 8k. 
I did the electric for a few hundred. I ran 120 for the plugs, lights and garage door. I ran a separate 240 line for the bigger equipment.
Very nice building for about 11k.
I can send pics if you're interested.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

clarionflyer said:


> I can send pics if you're interested.


Pics are always great and are welcome in this thread. Who built your building - you or someone else?

I am still worried about protecting my future tools from rust in that building.

Mark


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## ash123 (Mar 14, 2010)

My shop is 32 x 48 conventional framing, insulated, sheetrocked, forced air gas furnace, 220 volt 200 amp 3 phase power. I'm happy with it. I wish it were 40 x 100' but I can't build it any larger because I live in Minnehaha County South Dakota.


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm on the road. As soon as I get home I'll post some pics.
I haven't gotten around to insulating. Once or twice a year a big temperature change leaves the tools damp (Ohio). Other than those rare times, moisture isn't a problem. Insulation and a good spray should take care of that. The table saw and jointer are my only concerns with rust.

A local lumberyard built the building cheaper than I could have. I think you'll like the pics.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

clarionflyer said:


> A local lumberyard built the building cheaper than I could have. I think you'll like the pics.


Maybe I can find someone in WV that can build it at a good price. I have been considering http://www.blitzbuilders.com/ for putting up the building. I was hoping I wouldn't have to put in a furnace, since I wanted to keep the electric cheap when not being used. I may have to think about using my attached garage as my workshop and put the cars in the external one. My wife would kill me on that one!


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## smitty1967 (Feb 24, 2008)

I used traditional framing with trusses on my building. I chose a style and design that would closely match our home, and didn't want the building to be an eye sore or stand out. It needed to blend in with the rest of the neighborhood...not use a cookie-cutter, but I live in a village and not a rural area, either, so I want to keep the neighbors happy. 

There is a place and good uses for pole framing, and if it works for your application, dive in. Good luck!

regards,
smitty


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

smitty1967 said:


> I used traditional framing with trusses on my building. I chose a style and design that would closely match our home, and didn't want the building to be an eye sore or stand out. It needed to blend in with the rest of the neighborhood...not use a cookie-cutter, but I live in a village and not a rural area, either, so I want to keep the neighbors happy.
> 
> There is a place and good uses for pole framing, and if it works for your application, dive in. Good luck!
> 
> ...


I love your shop! I live in a rural area with 7.3 acres. I would love to build a garage/shop that matches our house, but it goes up in price since our house is all brick on all sides. I am thinking about having something built that looks like a barn with a garage door to blend in with the country.

I would love to stay at no more than $20,000 for the building. Any thoughts on design to meet that budget?


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Bingo! I got the idea of what to build now!

I want to make a 30 foot deep by 36 foot wide building with a 16 foot garage door on one side for the two car garage. The other half of the building will be partitioned off as a workshop. There will be a entry door directly into the workshop and one directly into the garage. There will be a 6x7 rollup door on the interior workshop/garage wall to allow moving larger out of the workshop and to allow moving heavy tools into the workshop from the garage side. The workshop area will be insulated and heated/cooled. The garage area will be insulated to help with the overall building warmth, but it will not be heated or cooled.

Depending on what is the best cost method, I might replace the internal roll up door with a double entry door. I tend to think the rollup door might be more costs effective. I don't believe I will put an entry door from the workshop to the garage since the rollup door can be used for entry.

This will make the workshop 16'x30', so I might make the building a little larger to get the workshop a little larger on the short side.

Mark


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## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

If you are in Winfield, WV check the ad bulletine. There are several pole barn manufacturers in there that can build exactly what you need. The price is pretty competitive as well.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Colt W. Knight said:


> If you are in Winfield, WV check the ad bulletine. There are several pole barn manufacturers in there that can build exactly what you need. The price is pretty competitive as well.


I did decide that I want regular shingles on the building and a hip roof to match our house. I also want to put vinyl siding on it as bricking to match the house can get real expensive. I will check into local pole barn bulders and compare it to building it the old fashioned way.

I want 10 foot ceiling for the building.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Moisture barrier*

If you plan ahead and insulate the ceiling and walls use a vapor barrier 
behind the sheet rock. I've done this in my house and shops just 6 mil poly unfaced insulation. Also use a vapor barrier on top of the sand fill under the slab. Use a 2" x 24" foam perimeter under the slab all the way around. Here in Michigan we use a thermal break between the slab and the footing to prevent cold from conducting to the interior. 
Insulating a pole building seems like a double expense to me, adding studs and battens, I donno? Foam in place is the most efficient insulation these days, but probably the most expensive. 
The whole reason for the vapor barrier is to keep humidity and temperature changes from affecting your tools and materials. 
I heat my shops with electric space heaters and never let the temp go below 45 degrees, mostly kept around 50 degrees in the coldest winter days. No fire hazard and relatively economical. 
I also used conduit for all the wiring, it's easy to add or change if necessary as opposed to in the wall wiring. I didn't use trusses for the ceiling since I used the above space for storage with enough headroom for a stairway.
This is a complex subject and a lot depends on climate and budget.
Get all the free advice you can. :thumbsup: bill


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## The Engineer (Mar 16, 2010)

Can you use one of those outdoor wood furnaces in your location? I have a friend who heats his house with one and loves it. Has to fill it with wood every 2 or 3 days. It has a thermostat in the house (shop in your case) that controls the combustion blower so if it's warm the fire just smolders for up to 3 days, then will fire up on its own if the need arrises. A wood shop should have a lot of free fuel available. Some people pick up old damaged pallets around here. Companies that use a lot of them often have to pay to dispose of them so folks can usually get them for free. These furnaces also work well with about any wood, old pithy junk wood, green wood, stumps, cross tie butts, sawmill trimmings, you name it.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

The outdoor wood burners are not what I want to keep it all clean and looking good. I will just go with base heat on a thermostat with extremely well insulated walls.

Mark


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks to everyone with all the ideas. Now I can do detail planning of where exactly to put it and figure the best dimensions to fit my needs and the area where I will build it. Since being unemployed for 15 months (very soon to end :smile, it will be a while before I actually build. By the time I build, I will have every detail determined right down to the Duct Collection piping and power outlets. I really hope to start building it by summer 2011. I will post a new thread when I start building it and post pictures like Smitty1967 did on his workshop. In a lot of ways, I feel as if I am experiencing the same thing as Smitty 1967 in that I work from a lot of bench tools and am working toward my workshop and filling it with all new machines.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

I just thought of the costs of pole building versus standard stud framing. Since I am going to insulate the interior and hang OSB, I need to stud in between the poles. If I stud inside the poles, then I will be using almost as many studs as if I framed it up conventionally. The roof trusses would be engineering anyway for both types. The concrete slab is the same for both types. The siding, windows, doors and roofing is the same for both types.

The only real difference is that a footer would be included with conventional framing versus poles in the ground. That means the real question is the footer expense compared to purchasing and setting poles in the ground. I am beginning to think it could be cost neutral meaning I could do conventional framing for about the same costs as an interiorly finished pole building.

Thoughts on this analysis?

Mark


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Now your gettin it!

A Pole barn is just that , It couldn't even begin to compare with a real building.

Granted, there is the cost of footings and walls, but they wont rot in the ground!

If you have the resources to do it right a pole barn is not even an option.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

For the open spans, I would guess prefabricated trusses are required instead of building rafters.

I think if you finish the pole barn on the inside and with the same materials on the outside, it becomes about the same costs as the conventional framing. If you do not finish a pole barn on the inside, then it becomes the less expensive option.

I wonder if I could just use a monolithic slab for the foundation of the walls instead of a separate foundation and then slab.

Mark


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Where are you located?


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> Where are you located?


Near Charleston, WV.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

I have only built in extreme climates.

If there is any danger of frost movement, I would deffinetly have footers and walls.

If no frost, you can trench and pour a slab.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> I have only built in extreme climates.
> 
> If there is any danger of frost movement, I would deffinetly have footers and walls.
> 
> If no frost, you can trench and pour a slab.


I would go with a normal footer where I live.

Mark


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Then you would have a building.

ready for insulation.

As far as truss compared to rafter, ...depends on the span.

Trusses are not too tough to build.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

I am looking at a 30 x 50 building with a hip roof to match the house, so I think trusses would be better.

Mark


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

mwhals said:


> I am looking at a 30 x 50 building with a hip roof to match the house, so I think trusses would be better.
> 
> Mark


I "HATE" prefab trusses!

I Have landed 1000's of them.

You would be much better off building your own.

That being said...You could buy prefab for less then it would cost you to have me stick build your roof.

Realize....You wont get the straight lines.........But it will keep the rain out.



Look at any prefab trussed roof... and if you can live with that...go truss.


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## garryswf (Aug 17, 2009)

mwhals said:


> Has anyone used pole construction for their garage/workshop? I am curious how well you guys like it versus traditional framing.
> 
> Also, is there a need to keep a shop heated or cooled when not occupied to protect cast iron tops? I would have heating in it for when it is occupied.
> 
> ...


Mark,
There is nothing wrong with a wood shop built with poles, they are just as sturdy and you can finish them off on the exterior as you would any other shop. Just a suggestion, you may consider a gambrel instead of a hip type roof, it will give you additional storage above for not much more cost. You can build the trusses yourself. The interior walls can be studded 2ft OC to eleminate exposed poles, this will also enable you to run wiring and also insulate the structure. You can also extend off of one side 10 feet or so with a shed roof, i did this to my old wood shop, the shed roof makes a nice place to roll a project under to do sanding. My old shop was located in southeastern Ohio so it had to be insulated. Just my opinion.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

mwhals said:


> Bingo! I got the idea of what to build now!
> 
> .
> 
> ...


I think you may find you will be going from one side of your building to the other more frequently than you think. The roll up door will be great for moving larger stuff back and forth, but it could be a pita for just going back and forth yourself. I would be inclined to also put in a standard door for that purpose. The double entry door idea would also work.

Gerry


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## Dean Miller (Jan 29, 2009)

Just a comment on rust. I live in a humid climate and had a problem with the TS etc. rusting. When I put my shop to bed I cover all the tops with a piece of thin fiberboard. Solved the rust problem. Don't leave wet sawdust under it.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Dean Miller said:


> Just a comment on rust. I live in a humid climate and had a problem with the TS etc. rusting. When I put my shop to bed I cover all the tops with a piece of thin fiberboard. Solved the rust problem. Don't leave wet sawdust under it.


I don't have a rust problem with my current TS in our attached garage. The shop will have better heating and cooling than my current garage.

I have also heard of people putting cloth sheets over their tools even when waxed.


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## bandman (Jan 15, 2009)

Good afternoon. I have a 30x65 shop and love it. It was built by Cleary Buildings (I believe they are national) and I couldn't be happier. They know what they are doing. I built it a little longer so I could have a 20x10 spray both at the far end with an exhaust fan...love it. Heat the thing! I live in Nebraska and we only have ten decent days a year, the rest of the year it is too cold, too hot, too windy etc. If you plan on using any glue you are going to need to keep it from freezing. I also have a restroom with hot/cold water sink..love it. I keep the heat at 40 (as low as the thermostat will go) and I have no problems. I used 1/2 inch osb (fiber board, oxboard) for my interior walls over the insulation instead of drywall. That way you can put anything on the wall anywhere you want and not have any problems finding a stud. I priced out the cost from my local lumber supply center and it only cost me about $1,000 more to have Cleary do it in 2-1/2 days and they really know what they are doing. I buiilt a new house three years ago and the shop went up first so I could build all the cabinets and make the moulding for the house; I'm retireing in a couple years and I can't wait to use that place even more. You can't make it too big, or have enough clamps or too big a dust collection system.

Bandman


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

bandman said:


> You can't make it too big, or have enough clamps or too big a dust collection system.


It is only too big if it knocks SHMBO out of room on that land for a garden.

I do plan to heat it. I won't have water though due to having to put in a septic tank. The house septic system is probably 500 feet from where the shop would go. I was going to do my walls with OSB too for the same reasons.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Based on my findings and recommendations by others in this thread, I have the following companies I will contact to get quotes and compare them to building it myself the conventional way:

Lester Buildings
Blitzbuilders
Morton Buildings
Hansen Pole Buildings
FetterVille Sales
Barn Pros
Cleary Building Corp

I will also contact my excavator, concrete companies (one owned by a friend and the other managed by a friend), framer, electrician friend and roofing friend to see how it compares with me being the general contractor.

Through it all, the winner will be bases on the best product and best price, so the lowest price doesn't necessarily win.

Mark


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

*Conventional-Pole Hybrid shop-barn*

I combined elements of conventional framing and pole construction for my shop/barn/storage building.

The shop part is conventionally framed on a regular concrete foundation using 2 x 6 wall framing. The floor is an isolated and insulated slab which doubles as a thermal mass and helps keep the temperature even. It's 24' x 40' and has it's own bathroom and 200 amp panel. The walls and ceiling are well insulate and sheet-rocked. I heat it with a 4500 watt 220v ceiling mounted forced air heater and a small baseboard in the bathroom. It's very energy efficient. I built the insulated big door and opens 4', 8' or 12' by 8' high. The shop cieling is 10 feet.

I used "attic" trusses to create a huge loft the runs the entire 64' length of the building and 12' wide with a separate stair access. This space is unfinished and uninsulated but makes a great storage area for my wood and excess junk. I put doors on one end with a beam that extends out and will eventually have a small gantry crane hoist attached to it.

The rest of the building is "pole" construction using 6 x 6 treated poles with 2 x 6 Girts running horizontally with metal panels screwed to them. I did set the poles on concrete pilasters with footings. The covered storage for farm equipment is 12' x 40' and the barn area is 36 x 24 and will eventually have a tack room and two stalls, hay storage and room for one vehicle.

This building works great and is truley a dream come true for us.

Bret


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

mwhals said:


> Thanks to everyone with all the ideas. Now I can do detail planning of where exactly to put it and figure the best dimensions to fit my needs and the area where I will build it. Since being unemployed for 15 months (very soon to end :smile, it will be a while before I actually build. By the time I build, I will have every detail determined right down to the Duct Collection piping and power outlets. I really hope to start building it by summer 2011. I will post a new thread when I start building it and post pictures like Smitty1967 did on his workshop. In a lot of ways, I feel as if I am experiencing the same thing as Smitty 1967 in that I work from a lot of bench tools and am working toward my workshop and filling it with all new machines.


The time is nearing and I am possibly on schedule to start building it by summer 2011. I believe we will stick build it and I am looking at bricking it to match the house if it is not much more than vinyl siding. Looking to make it around 900 square feet and will insulate under the concrete floor. The perfect place to set it is just screaming for a building. Planning on making it deeper than wide rather than making it a perfect square. Maybe 24 x 36 (or 40). After it is built, I will have a Unisaw in it and my current tools, but will need to save up for the rest of the floor model power tools.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Brick may be a lil' more than vinyl...:smile:


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> Brick may be a lil' more than vinyl...:smile:


 
That is for sure! It is worth pricing though. I am wondering which of the following will be the most economical:

1. Brick or vinyl siding building with hip roof.

2. Same size building with gambel roof made to look like a barn, which would also fit since we are in the country.

I am having both priced, so I will have the answer.

It will be a couple of months before we could build due to the wet season. The location where it is going needs some drainage work done to protect the building and that can't really take place until the area is dry due to the fact you can sink in the mud. 

I will start a thread with pictures if / when we start building. It is a dream I have had for 15 years.


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

Brick is about 1.75 times more than vinyl according to the contractor. By my calculations, it would add maybe $4500 to the overall costs based on 4 solid walls, which isn't the case due to windows and doors.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Gable roof construction, is the cheapest. :smile:


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## mwhals (Apr 13, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> Gable roof construction, is the cheapest. :smile:


Even more so, because I wouldn't brick it with a gable roof. I am thinking I could go with a barn look for it to go with the country side. What would be the best low maintenance siding to make it look like a barn?


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

mwhals said:


> Even more so, because I wouldn't brick it with a gable roof. I am thinking I could go with a barn look for it to go with the country side. What would be the best low maintenance siding to make it look like a barn?


 


Vinyl. :smile:


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