# Need Live Centers for Old Craftsman



## jlc791 (Aug 5, 2008)

I recently picked up an old Craftsman lathe, model 113.23881, on eBay in very good condition for $115 (included the optional table/stand). The only issue is that both the centers are missing. I started by trying Sears' PartsDirect.com site and decided to try my luck with the substitute parts listed there (a Morse Taper Cup Center and Spur Center). Now that I have both in hand, it appears neither fit so I'm looking for some advice and hoping someone out there has the same or similar machine.

At the head end, the spur center will fit into the spindle but there is nothing but friction to keep it from spinning. I suspect that this wouldn't be enough once I had a project mounted on the lathe however it does appear from the parts diagram in the manual to be the same method of installation as the original part. (I had originally expected that the head end center would be threaded onto the spindle rather than fitting inside it.)

At the tailstock, the cup center is too large a diameter to fit inside the spindle. Here I'm assuming that the part substitution that Sears recommended just isn't the right size and I'll have to search out an old one.

Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Jeff


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Jeff If I'm correct, the older Craftsman lathes took a #1 morse taper drive and tail center. I may be wrong because it's been a long time since I've seen one. If that's true I think you may be able to buy them from Penn state Industries. They used to sell the Carbo-Tec lathe which uses the #1 morse taper. 
If it uses #2 morse tapers then you can get those from most any good store that sells wood turning supplies like Woodcraft, Craft Supplies, or Packard woodworks.


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## jlc791 (Aug 5, 2008)

John,

I believe that what Sears PartsDirect sold me are both #1 morse tapers so either they've changed the dimensions or the tailstock at least has been modified from the original. Are these tapers designed to just slip into the spindle with no firm connection or attachment?

Also, not being familier with the numbering system used here, are the #1 tapers smaller or larger than #2?

Thanks,
Jeff


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## coffeetime (Dec 28, 2006)

Morse taper #1 is smallest. As for the ability of a morse taper to hold you would be amazed how well they hold. Did you try putting the drive spur into the tail stock to see if you do have the right size center, it should fit. If it doesn't then it has been changed or possably something stuck in there.To remove a tool from the tail stock you crank the handle ccw until it stops. There is a pin inside the hole at the back that pushes the tool out. 
Hope this helps

Mike


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## jlc791 (Aug 5, 2008)

Mike,

Thanks. You've confirmed what I suspected after reviewing the situation again last night - someone changed the tail stock spindle at some point. The new morse tapers I received are both the same size and fit in the head spindle fine but not in the tail. Sears PartsDirect still sells the original tail stock spindle so I've asked them if this will indeed work with the replacement taper they now sell (which I bought). Presuming the answer is yes, I just need to purchase this item to have a working lathe.

Jeff


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

Jeff Sorry I didn't read all of your post well enough. Sears used to carry #1 morse tapered attachments but they are very hard to find in the catalog and my local sears guys didn't even know they existed. You may be able to swap the parts back with them if you can find the correct ones. I'm not near my catalog so i can't dig up the info for you right now. 
If you do a google search for Morse Taper dimensions you should find some numbers to let you measure the size of what you have and then you will know.


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## jlc791 (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for the advice so far. I'm learning a lot about Morse Tapers and tapers in general - quit interesting history.

From what I can tell, the tailstock on this lathe was changed over to a non-taper spindle. While there is a whole in the spindle, it is less than an inch deep and a good deal smaller diameter than the #1 tapers I have purchased. Sears does appear to still sell the original tailstock spindle design so I'm hoping that they will be able to confirm that it will fit with their replacement taper. My guess is it does but their online customer service people are not all that good at understanding the questions I've asked.

Jeff


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