# Harbor Freight 2HP DC upgrades.



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

So I own one of the old green HF 2HP dust collectors. It's nothing brag worthy, but it works, and has been modded so far a bit, and I need to know my next steps.

I have it fitted with a Wynn 35A .5 micron filter, and have retrofitted a Wen impeller that massively upgraded the puny OEM impeller. At present I have it configured pulling through a 55 gallon drum based Thien separator, however I am working on cleaning up the shop, and making space for building a new baffle installed directly into the dust collectors separator ring.

The big question I have is ducting.

At present I come into and out of the separator with 5" but convert via the OEM 5x4x4 Y fitting to 2 4: runs, one high, one low.

I want to run one single run with the reduction to 4" as close to the tool as possible.

I know of a replacement flange that will convert the 5" input of the DC to 6", and allow me to connect quickly to 6" S&D PVC, which I have several joints, as well as 6x4 branch Wye fittings available to me for free from a friend that bought too much and never used it.

Will the HF DC with this larger impeller actually be able to support 6" or should I just spend the extra $$ for 5" metal? The cost difference is kind of big-ish, but I don't want to over, or under, pipe my system...

If it matters, this will be with a maximum run from DC to the last blast gate of 28 feet considering up and down... No quick 90 degree bends, but multiple 45s instead type stuff...

The idea here is max performance, for minimum $$ and minimum space usage in the shop. I am not blessed with the luxury of a giant shop!

For those looking to pick up one of these and modify it here are the links to the goodies I am using.


Harbor Freight 2HP Dust collector. I cannot attest to this but rumor is this is the same machine as mine but with a different base and paint color.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html?_br_psugg_q=dust+collector 

Wynn 35A has been replaced by the Wynn 35c and shot up in price, the Donaldson P181038 appears to be equivalent to the Wynn at a considerably lower price. https://amzn.to/3oTqIf6

Wen impeller.
https://wenproducts.com/products/340...530916dc&_ss=r

Thien cyclone separator, there is some DIY here... J. Phil Thien's Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle

6" flange to replace the 5", some custom drilling screw holes is required. https://amzn.to/3nFicRJ


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

TLR
HF 2HP DC current mod status. Wynn 35a .5 micron filter. Wen 3403-22 turbofan (impeller) and Bill Pentz style neutral vane installed. External side inlet Thien 55 gallon separator taken out of system. Pending post holiday budget review for upgrade to 6" ductwork.


Okay so the status thus far...

I am trying to achieve maximum dust collection with a minimum of footprint in a small shop, and a minimum of impact to my budget. 

I started off with a new way back then, green 2 HP Central Machinery 70 gallon bag type dust collector. 

At the same time I bought the dust collector, I ordered the Wynn 35A spun bond filter, which is no longer on the market, but has the same rating more or less as the nano allegedly. 

I ran it through to a side inlet 55 gallon Thien style separator. And then in turn out to the 5x4x4 wye to dual 4" ducts.

I have never been super thrilled about its performance. The 55 gallon drum has always been a pain to empty, the CFM loss through the separator was pretty huge, and that funky puny impeller they use for the Central Machinery dust collector always bothered me.

I have as you may have noticed been doing lots of digging in the forums, re-re-reading BIll Pentz' dust collection research pages, and I have come to a somewhat annoying conclusion. My DC doesn't suck enough.

The Thien separator was causing a pretty big drop in CFM that my poor little DC didn't like, or at least I didn't like. 

NO direspect to Phil Thien and his design for the separator baffle, it is a genius idea, and maybe I am being OCD about CFM loss, but doing comparison reasearch on various add in cyclone / cyclonic separators, the neutral vane seemed the most efficient / least loss of CFM.

So I abandoned that idea, and instead went with the Bill Pentz recommendation of a Neutral Vane, but I didn't want to design my own. Happily LCHIEN @ sawdustzone.org reposted his old neutral vane template and I was able to knock mine out WAY quicker than I thought I would.I admit I was a bit leery of doing the whole tin snips thing, but it was easy as pie. 

So now I still have separation, but I eliminated the CFM loss / choke point. NO idea if the neutral vane causes CFM loss because my anemometer can't read that high... 

Now on to do something about that incredibly stupid impeller size choice... 

Apparently I was lucky to find one, but I sourced up a Wen 3403-22 turbofan, A.K.A. impeller, and completed that swap.

Again pretty easy swap. But that's a done deal...

For NOW, and only for now because budgets being what they are, I am sticking iwth my 5x4x4 so exiting the DC with 5" transitioning via a hose to the OE 5x4x4 wye, then to dual 4" ducts.

After doing a LOT of research, AND crunching airflow numbers, and considering until I get right at the tool I need to collect from, I am wanting one staight run, I am plaanning on doing the 6" upsize / upgrade of my flange and ductwork.

The 55 gallon side inlet Thien separator is now partially parted out, with a 1/3 full drum I am planning on emptying the drum, and cutting it down below the side inlet. I messed up that side inlet and had it up too high to begin with. It IS possible I still have the plastic piece I cut out. If that is the case, I have acccess to plastic welding and may patch it.


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## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

I made the fan swap a few years ago. When I checked the new fan curve I also measured the effect of all the parts on the outlet side, thinking about replacing that ring separator with a cyclone. You might be interested in the data:








So it would appear that getting rid of that ring and adding a SDD at the fan inlet could actually be a slight improvement in airflow.

One caution though, trying for a high flow rate will shorten the motor life. The motor label doesn't list the insulation class so the actual limit is unknown. Rule of thumb for motor life versus temperature is each 10° rise cuts insulation life by a factor of two.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Hey Dave, great name BTW.... I am not planning on doing a full on 2 stage conversion. At least at this time. 

I am currently in a small 18x20 2 car allegedly garage workshop. Who sized these 1980s garages up I will never know, but I digress. I am building an even smaller, but 100% dedicated workshop / shed that will be 10x20. My concerns are obviously space usage. 

Venting outside means dumping any heated, or more importantly cooled, air outside and brining up makeup air that will be HOT and HUMID here in coastal TX. So I MUST have internal filtration.

I am going to be limited by HOA rules / permits / codes where I am to a max building height of 9' 0", meaning even and 8' ceiling will require some CAREFUL design choices.

Every 2 stage conversion I have seen typically due to the physical dimensions of the cyclone, makes the whole thing taller, I can I guess take the separator ring off entirely and spin the filter downwards via an adapter I guess. Seems like more work than I want to do. That falls into the serious maybe category. Just not convinced it will be worth the extra time, and effort. 

However, if the Neutral Vane pans out how it is reported to do, and I can just 2 to 4 times a year simply blow down the filter to maintain it, all of which takes 2 minutes or so, I don't see a need for the effort.

Don't get me wrong, LOTS of people do full on 2 stage conversions. IMHO the best of which seem to be the ones that eliminate the separator ring entirely... Just sort of come out of the impeller housing, rotate 90 degrees to downward facing filter(s). IF I were leaning that way, I would consider going with a Super Dust Deputy XL, and a FIBER barrel. I am hating the plastic barrel something fierce...


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

The main advantages of cyclones are saving on filter cleaning and easier disposal of shavings.

The down side is they do degrade performance, on a cobbled together system this is a consideration. Blower/cyclone packaged machines are what they are. That can be offset if you can bypass filters and exhaust outside, but you would need filters no matter what you do, with that blower the degradation of a cyclone would be even more.

I use a Rubbermaid Brute type commercial trash can with a bicycle inner tube fastened to the rim. Works well, probably b/c my blower is underrated.

That space is very small for power tools. You have to be very neat and efficient, the biggest issue is having enough room to work on your project if it is large. My first shop was an 8x12 shed, the next one was 12x16 and now its almost 2000SF. And I still don't have enough space, maybe b/c I have more room to strew things about?


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

DrRobert said:


> The main advantages of cyclones are saving on filter cleaning and easier disposal of shavings.
> 
> ...


The neutral vane allegedly has a similar effect on keeping the filter clean, again a Bill Pentz recommendation, and mind you I have had to clean my filter 2x year. I could probably let it go, but I don't. 

Shavings disposal from a 55 gallon plastic drum is beyond a pain. So I am more than happy to do away with it. 

IF at some point I go with a cyclone / 2 stage conversion. I will likely use a Super Dust Deputy XL and a short fiber barrel instead of the heavy plastic. And even then I would be prone to using a plastic liner bag to make emptying easier.

My DC is on a stand allowing the intake to be basically waist height, meaning the bag is actually super easy to unlatch, tie off and change. When I got my DC it came with 2 bags, I am on the 2nd bag, would still be on the first but I ripped it... Happy to make the tradeoff compared to eating up floor space.

FWIW, your shop now is as big as my house... I can't imagine that...2K Square feet? That's huge...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Your shop is 2000 sq ft? That's 100 ft X 20 ft. or 50 ft X 40 ft. (edit out wrong math) Should have used a calculator!
My woodworking shop is 20 ft X 25 ft or 500 sq ft, and every inch of floor space where I don't need to walk is occupied by "useable" wood or machines.
Being a "toolaholic" means more than one of some tools. Also being a "saveaholic" every piece of wood has the potentioal to be used on some project.
It's actually a problem I don't mind having. It may be a problem for my heirs, however?


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

Calculations off by a factor of 10. 

2000 square foot would be a 40x50 foot building.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

A tiny bit more on the way of dust collection upgrade. 

I am using the OE 5x4x4 splitter, but not immediately at the DC, instead I HAD BEEN using a section of 5" S&D ribbed hose, it was what I used to get into my former Thien separator.

Instead when I went with the neutral vane, I went ahead and attached the 5x4x4 to the upper and lower mains, but that left me with, well the distance between the inlet of the DC, and the wall. Anyway, I went ahead and grabbed a couple of 5" HVAC adjustable elbows, and a segment of 5" split duct. Well out went the flex line, in went the MUCH smoother sheet metal line. I still have adjustments to make but that is coming in the next few weeks... Oh and since the pic was taken, I straightened out, and strapped up the wall side so it actually makes the correct angle...


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