# Show me your spalt pile



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Here is mine. I have only about 75 logs cooking in the shade of a monster tulip poplar right now. Maple, sycamore, sweetgum, birch...

















30" sweetgum, looking good, it will be ready this fall









A couple sycamores, 40" and 42"...I have some 50''+ on the bottom of the pile. They will all be ready soon too.




















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Since I live in town I am limited for room. I have 2 log piles this one "the spalt pile" and another one closer to the mill of stuff I plan on getting to soon/logs I mill as soon as they show up.




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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

How long does it usually take a do you keep the damp?


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Depends on species for one thing on how long. I don't keep them damp other than keep them out of the sun so they don't dry out too fast. In Illinois (since the logs are frozen solid a few months) a year minimum from standing alive to anything decent spalt wise for most species. Like the sweetgum and sycamore were cut in the late spring of 2009 and be milled fall 2010. The birch spalted in less than a year and some hard maple I have is going on 2 years and not quite ready. Soft maple spalts faster (but not as cool looking) than hard maple. If a guy gets lucky and finds a standing dead hardwood that has already started spalting then maybe just need a few months in the laydown to get good results.


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

Daren said:


> If a guy gets lucky and finds a standing dead hardwood that has already started spalting ...


This brings to mind a question I've been meaning to ask. A neighbor's live hackberry tree uprooted in a storm recently and they had too take it down and was cut up into firewood lengths. The center of each log was almost black and covered almost 2/3rds of the end. Looking at the split wood later, it dried to that creamy milk chocolate color of hackberry.
Can a live tree spalt or was this natural decay going the length of the tree? Sorry no pictures.
Naturally I asked about the wood, but she said a friend was going to burn it in his fireplace. It didn't occur to me until it was too late to try and substitute some of my oak firewood for the larger pieces.
And sorry if I've gotten off track; it seemed like a good time to ask.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

djg said:


> Can a live tree spalt


I do not believe so. What you saw was some other thing, like disease...Not to say a tree is not standing _mostly_ dead. I have seen some poor old trees really try to hang in there and part of the tree is dead for years while it still puts on leaves and the rest looks, well is, alive.
This white oak stood dead for many years to look like this, this is fresh felled.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I've got less than a couple dozen spalting here on the homestead - can't see all of them my piles are not nearly as neat (nor accessible) as yours. But I left at least a dozen whole trees lay in the woods last spring after my last felling trip. So how many decent logs that'll work out to this fall we'll have to see. Some of the top logs will have gone too far, but most of the rest will make some pretty stuff. Most are FBE but I dropped several other flavors, a couple I didn't know what they were. 

I was hoping not to have to go back out and log during this heat but I'm going to have to because I am almost completely out of logs. I may love the summer, but down in the lowland bush country where I harvest these - this time of year it's so hot my wife can't even go in with me, much less do any work. There's ZERO wind in there even if there's a stiff breeze blowing right outside the treeline, and of course every kind of insect and chigger and skeeter and alien bug known to man attacks you constantly, and the sticker vines and wild rose vines are always finding their way into the cab wrapping around the controls, and the operator. I took my SIL in there last summer, an Iraq veteran, and he said "I prefer the deserts of Iraq to this any day." It's stifling hot in there and humid as all heck. I drink so much water when I'm in there logging this time of year I have to take the large cooler filled with gallon jugs of it, and I also take several gallons for pouring over my head when I get back to the truck to load the logs on the trailer. Why did you have to remind of this Daren? I was having a good day here in my "cool" shop. 

Sorry I can't show you my spalt piles as I am yet again between cameras. This makes number . . . . . umpteen.


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## Streamwinner (Nov 25, 2008)

Daren said:


> Here is mine. I have only about 75 logs cooking in the shade of a monster tulip poplar right now. Maple, sycamore, sweetgum, birch...
> .


I'll take one of each, thanks.

Actually, just two weeks ago I started a spalting experiment in my attic. I had read up on a number of articles talking about wood in damp plastic bins. Who knows how it will turn out; I'm just messing around because I find wood fascinating...


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

Daren said:


> I have only about 75 logs


Only  75 logs spalting. I like how you slip that in there and tease us with logs that are not ready to make lumber. Now I have to wait a couple of months for them to be done cooking wondering when you will pop up some amazing photos of 20" QS splated sycamore boards.

TT, I know how you feel about that heat. I salvaged a couple of flood killed red oaks last week before they started dropping branches just to get them down and up off the ground by the mill. It was just too hot to go back this week and mill them. 

Wood sure rots fast here, and not much around me spalts. Red oak just rots, white oak just takes longer to rot, bugs get into the hickory, the honey locust is to pretty unspalted to risk, and elm just turns an ugly grey from what I have seen. Green ash maybe? Got a couple of ugly ones that can come down to make room for better neighbors so no loss if it does not turn out.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

jeffreythree said:


> Now I have to wait a couple of months for them to be done cooking wondering when you will pop up some amazing photos of 20" QS splated sycamore boards.



Hey, me too :smile:






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## Gerald (Aug 21, 2008)

I understand you can spalt ash. Has anyone done so?
I think it is supposed to have a little different look than other types of trees that have spalted. But I have never seen spalted ash. Except for pictures on the internet.
The reason for the question is I seem to be in ash land right now. Everytime someone calls with a possible log it seems to be ash. Not complaining but I'm looking to be a little creative. 
Any tips would appreciated.
Thanks,
Gerald


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I've never seen any spalted ash but I'm sure it happens. After having sawn a spalted walnut open I think anything can spalt given the right conditions. I'm guessing Ash is probably a lot like hackberry in the the spalting department - you got to stay right on top of it or it'll go too far real fast. Ash logs are are like hackberry they don't last long outside unless kept dry, and they won't spalt if their dry.


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## bikeshooter (Nov 5, 2010)

Streamwinner said:


> Actually, just two weeks ago I started a spalting experiment in my attic. I had read up on a number of articles talking about wood in damp plastic bins. Who knows how it will turn out; I'm just messing around because I find wood fascinating...


I'm looking at trying a similar method. How'd your experiment go?


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

I only have two logs and the top of from an Elm tree I cut down last fall. I'm hoping to have some spalt by the time summer is over. I had one that blew over in a storm a few years ago and it developed some spectacular spalting. I used it all in turning blanks.




























I can also say that Ash will spalt. Here's a chess piece (Rook) from a set I turned a few years ago out of Walnut and spalted Ash.










Finally, this site http://web.mac.com/kaysa_gabriel//Northern_Spalting/Northern_Spalting.html(I hope this is allowed) is a great source for information about spalting. This young lady is an expert on the subject and wrote a series of articles about it for Fine Woodworking Magazine. She also has detailed instructions for spalting your lumber.

Daren, is there a big demand for spalted lumber?


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

ETWW said:


> Daren, is there a big demand for spalted lumber?


...Well, let's just say there is a bigger demand for some species spalted vs not. Sycamore (unless 1/4 sawn) sweetgum-birch-hackberry-regular maple...(the species mentioned in my spalt pile) are rather plain and don't fetch much money if I mill them fresh. If I spalt them properly I can 2X-5X my money. For killer stuff I can turn $2-$3 bft lumber, with mother natures help, into $4-$10 bft stuff...Or more depending how it is marketed, like these. 1x1x6 spalted maple blanks, reel seat blanks sold to guys who make custom fishing rods. $25 per dozen, I couldn't keep them in stock at that price...What is that ~ $50 bft ? Just for a little more time and effort (spalting and processing into blanks) and finding a niche market to sell to. The logs I spalted to get these blanks were low grade logs and the lumber from them would not have sold for $2 a bft even.


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification. BTW, those are some killer pen blanks. You should have no trouble selling them.

I don't have a mill yet and am currently hauling my logs to a local sawyer for milling. Even if (when) I do get a mill, I plan to mill mainly for myself. Spalted wood looks great in door panels, IMHO.

I'm not averse to supplementing my hobby expenses, though. That's the reason for the question about the demand for spalted wood. It sounds like it's a case of preparation meeting opportunity...having unusual spalted, wood when someone is seeking unusual, spalted wood. :smile:


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Here's my pile :thumbsup::laughing::blink::laughing:!!!! OOPS it's got wheels:scooter:!!!
Two spalting maples on wagon from shady woodline to mill hopefully soon:yes::yes:.

Daren, I ain't got dry piles like yours, I go for more moisture. Actually these were on the west side of step hill and didn't see any sunshine till late evening. According to the fungi I think I need to cut up.

Daren, a few of the logs in your pics look as though they were sealed (could've been the a mold film). If this is sealed wouldn't that prohibit a spalt???

Hey TT, them pesky insects ain't what I get concerned about, it's them copperheads and rattlesnakes that are blind at this time of year and mad at the WORLD and will strike at anything:hammer::2guns:, yeah and that heat too:laughing:.

Have a Blessed day in Jesus,
Tim


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Tennessee Tim said:


> Daren, I ain't got dry piles like yours... sunshine till late evening.
> 
> Daren, a few of the logs in your pics look as though they were sealed (could've been the a mold film). If this is sealed wouldn't that prohibit a spalt???


Under that 80' tall (and very wide and low branching) poplar tree my spalt logs don't ever see direct sunlight in warm weather, just in the winter when the leaves are off...Sorry, small camera phone picture I just stepped out the back door to take. In that yellow circle is the back tire of a Case backhoe also parked under the tree for scale of my shade tree.









No I don't seal the ends of spalt logs :no:, you're right that is mold film. Once I get my camera problems figured out I will take better pictures of the fungus shelves and what-not on the logs now (this was an old thread dragged back up) My phone takes good pictures...but they have to be downsized to send them to my email and not worth posting here.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Daren said:


> No I don't seal the ends of spalt logs :no:, you're right that is mold film.
> .


...Looking at the first pictures again I see what you are saying, there are a couple sealed logs under the tree. A few white oaks I stuck under there to mill ''sometime''...They won't rot any time soon and I am in no hurry to mill them, just stuck them in the shade and out of my way.


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## Kirk Allen (Nov 7, 2006)

I have about 40 soft maple spalting, 15-20 hard maple, a dozen hackberry or so and about the same with the ash. Hackberry will go punk quicker than the ash but thats not saying much. Hard maple is VERY forgiving compared to soft maple. 

I have a few hickory boards with spalt but nothing like the maples produce. 

Nitch market is the way to go! Still getting $20bf for Osage to the right customers and $5 a pound for the sawdust.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

djg said:


> Can a live tree spalt


No, from what I've read, the chemical processes in live trees always prevent the fungi from invading. I think I remember reading it was something to do with the oxygen level in live trees being too high for them, but I may have that wrong.

One of the most interesting things I've read about spalting, and I have no idea whether or not it's true, is that black-line spalting is the result of fungi wars. separate grows of fungi want to spread into each others territories and when they encounter each other, they fight to the death, and it's the zillions of dead fungi carcasses that are the black lines. So weird it may even be true.


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

phinds said:


> One of the most interesting things I've read about spalting, and I have no idea whether or not it's true, is that black-line spalting is the result of fungi wars. separate grows of fungi want to spread into each others territories and when they encounter each other, they fight to the death, and it's the zillions of dead fungi carcasses that are the black lines. So weird it may even be true.


Zone lines in spalted wood are barriers erected by fungi when it encounters another fungi of similar strength and sometimes when only one fungus is present. The lines aren't dead fungi but are mycelium...the vegetative state of the fungus. While black lines are the most common, they can be many colors...red, pink, green, yellow.

Live trees cannot spalt except for localized, damaged areas like the stub of a broken limb.

Sealing the end of a log will actually promote spalting as it helps the log retain moisture. The optimum conditions for spalting are 80 degrees F and above 20% MC...warm and moist.


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## Streamwinner (Nov 25, 2008)

bikeshooter said:


> I'm looking at trying a similar method. How'd your experiment go?


Not so well. Got some coloration but had too much moisture. Not sure if I'll try again.


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## Chippin-in (Feb 4, 2010)

Gerald said:


> I understand you can spalt ash. Has anyone done so?
> I think it is supposed to have a little different look than other types of trees that have spalted. But I have never seen spalted ash. Except for pictures on the internet.
> The reason for the question is I seem to be in ash land right now. Everytime someone calls with a possible log it seems to be ash. Not complaining but I'm looking to be a little creative.
> Any tips would appreciated.
> ...


I have some spalted ash with a little curl in it. Your right, It does not spalt like you would think. Heres some pics


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## bikeshooter (Nov 5, 2010)

Streamwinner said:


> Not so well. Got some coloration but had too much moisture. Not sure if I'll try again.


"too much moisture"? That give me reason to pause. I know there's a minimum level to encourage spalt but too much - I didn't think that was possible. 

I'm gonna have a go at Dr. Robinson's method in the next month or so. Want to grow some cultures first. I have quite a bit of green magnolia I want to experiment with


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

phinds said:


> . . . One of the most interesting things I've read about spalting, and I have no idea whether or not it's true, is that black-line spalting is the result of fungi wars. separate grows of fungi want to spread into each others territories and when they encounter each other, they fight to the death, and it's the zillions of dead fungi carcasses that are the black lines. So weird it may even be true.



I've read several articles over on woodweb where Doc describes this very thing. As you said it's very interesting reading. Imagine being a cell and one of your fellow fungi cells comes screaming over the huge hills and valleys of the grain - "The Tramete Spores are coming! The Tramete Spores are coming! All Hyphae's form up! Call in all reserves from the Sap Regions to help us meet the threat!"

I just reread one of his articles to get some names of some of the spores I used in the previous paragraph, and I also remember reading that there's some forms of fungi that don't require different fungi to form lines. I couldn't find that article though. Some of them will fight amongst themselves and have what I could only call a "Civil War". I guess fungi haven't yet evolved as far as us peaceful humans. :blink:




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## bikeshooter (Nov 5, 2010)

ETWW said:


> I onlyhttp://web.mac.com/kaysa_gabriel//Northern_Spalting/Northern_Spalting.html(I hope this is allowed) is a great source for information about spalting. This young lady is an expert on the subject and wrote a series of articles about it for Fine Woodworking Magazine. She also has detailed instructions for spalting your lumber.


The ladies name is Seri Robinson. The Fine Woodworking Magazine for which she wrote her article is issue #191 and is still available by online purchase for $8. I think she earned her doctorate with her spalting research.


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## phinds (Mar 25, 2009)

ETWW said:


> ... The lines aren't dead fungi but are mycelium...the vegetative state of the fungus.


So up until the spalted wood is dried out to prevent further spalting, the lines are the vegetative state, and after that they are a dead state, or even when the wood is dried out they remain a vegetative state? I ask because I associate "vegetative" with the concept of "might come alive again", which I might have wrong.


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## klr650 (Apr 4, 2010)

I would think the heat from kiln drying would kill the fungi - probably not the spores however. If the wood is air dried, it might very well come back if the conditions in the board or enviroment allowed it.

I asked this very question early on in my life here on this board (in this very forum actually) the responses that I got indicated to me that there wasn't much of a worry about it other than perhaps inhalation of mold spores. I'm still not entirely sure why spalting has such a following - but to each his own:boat:.

Personally I think it'd be hillarious to have some guy's spalted maple or walnut or something start sprouting mushrooms.


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

phinds said:


> So up until the spalted wood is dried out to prevent further spalting, the lines are the vegetative state, and after that they are a dead state, or even when the wood is dried out they remain a vegetative state? I ask because I associate "vegetative" with the concept of "might come alive again", which I might have wrong.


If you get the wood to about 25% MC and 80 degrees F, those "dead" spores will resume activity. They aren't dead but dormant. Also, if you spend any time in the woods in late summer, especially poking around among the leaf mold, you are inhaling thousands of them with every breath. Jus so you know. 

Read Sara Robinson's blogs she wrote for FWW. You can access them through her site without buying the magazine. BTW, Seri is her nickname, Sara is her real name and yes, her Ph.D thesis was on spalted wood. She actually has a grant to study it now.

There is a lot of misinformation about spalted wood on the internet, especially on woodworking forums.


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