# Ridgid R4512 or Craftsman 21833



## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

I searched the forum and found lots of threads and good information on these two saws but not much comparing the two. I know they are almost identical but the 21833 is about $50 more right now. So is there any reason to spend the extra $50 for the Craftsman. I see that the craftsman can be converted to 220v but would that really make much of a difference. Also, might it be possible to convert the Rigid to 220v.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The Cman is listed as 1-3/4hp vs 1-1/2, but it's debatable whether the 21833 is worth $50 more. Ridgid has a better warranty, and HD has been known to accept a 20% HF coupon, making the price difference much greater. 

The Ridgid is convertable to 220v also. Whether or not it's noticeable depends on how good your particular 110v circuit is. In theory, there's no difference, but there are a lot of inadequate 110v circuits around, and a lot of people notice a difference when they switch. 220v tends to have less voltage loss.


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## against_the_grain (Aug 15, 2010)

Are the extension wings on the Craftsman stamped steel or cast iron ? I know the Rigid's are stamped 
steel.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I have the 21833 and I am totally happy with it. I use it every day and I cut a lot of wood. I cut different widths of 2x6s all day and rip them into 5" and smaller widths down to 3/4" wide. The first thing you need to do is buy a Freud Diablo blade for it. I like the guard, the riving knife and the anti kickback arms. They are easy to remove to make grooves and other cuts. I have had no problems. It was easy to assemble and set up. I did buy a Incra miter gauge. I also bought a Harbor Freight cheapo dado set just to see if I would like it and it works pretty well. I may buy a better one later. I heard the fence is not that good but mine works great. It cuts very straight. I bought a tiltbox 2 to check the angle of the blade and it stays straight throughout height adjustments. 

I read reviews online saying some of these had a casting issue but mine does not. I am sure it was a problem that was fixed a while ago. Overall I am 100% happy with the saw. I had a borrowed Ridgid before that was a POS but it was used so I cannot speak to the quality of a new one. 

I do like that I can order anything for it from craftsman.com also

The extensions are stamped steel. I installed mine and adjusted them flat and they have stayed. 

The one big thing I like about the saw the most is being able to step on the lever and then roll it anywhere. I have a small work space and have to roll it out to the edge of the garage for using it.


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

regesullivan said:


> I searched the forum and found lots of threads and good information on these two saws but not much comparing the two. I know they are almost identical but the 21833 is about $50 more right now. So is there any reason to spend the extra $50 for the Craftsman. I see that the craftsman can be converted to 220v but would that really make much of a difference. Also, might it be possible to convert the Rigid to 220v.


If you buy it online then pick it up in store you can get a discount. I got mine that way.


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## jeffsw6 (Nov 24, 2012)

I bought a Ridgid R4512 new at Home Depot. Blade wouldn't square up. Ridgid customer service said trunnion must have been manufactured wrong and to exchange it for a replacement saw.

Exchanged for a replacement that had the same problem.

I'm not saying this will happen to everyone or most people. But I did post on the Ridgid forum for help and a few other people told me they got bad saws just like mine, and the people at Ridgid tech support were very familiar with my issue, which indicates to me that it is not rare.

I personally am not going to spend any more time on Ridgid saws. I returned the second one for a refund and am thinking about ordering a Grizzly.


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## bberchin (Nov 25, 2012)

Ridgid is not a good buy. We bought a Ridgid generator and have had many problems with it. You also may want to avoid Grizzly. Their prices are good, but quality is not. I had one of their baby drum sanders brand new and had so many problems with it I had to send it back. My tool supplier told me that Grizzly tools are not up to commercial use and wasn't surprised at the trouble I had.


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## troyd1976 (Jul 26, 2011)

IMHO its not really fair to bad mouth an entire brand's offering based on 1 product you've had issue with in this day and age, as these products are all manufactured by different groups. An R4512 is made in a different factory by a different manufacture than a generator, and im sure the same applys to Grizzly's offerings as well.
As far as your tool suplier goes, does he actually handle Grizzly products? if so his opinion is about as good as a chevy dealer's of ford. Opinion formed by the commission.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

bberchin said:


> Ridgid is not a good buy. We bought a Ridgid generator and have had many problems with it. You also may want to avoid Grizzly. Their prices are good, but quality is not. I had one of their baby drum sanders brand new and had so many problems with it I had to send it back. My tool supplier told me that Grizzly tools are not up to commercial use and wasn't surprised at the trouble I had.


Better avoid Delta, Jet, PM, Laguna, Hitachi, Rikon, Shop Fox, GI, and Steel City. People have said bad things about them too. Don't believe everything you hear or read. Your supplier doesn't make any money on Grizzly tools, so there's incentive for him to spread negative comments.

Troy is correct that many brand name tools do not share a lot of common history, or even come from the same factory, so you really can't draw accurate conclusions across the board about a name plate ....there just isn't a correlation in many cases. You need to look at each tool independently to draw valid conclusions.

Jeff - The 21833, R4512, and the Griz G0715P all shared a similar design under the hood, and all had a similar alignment issue on the earlier models made. The problem has supposedly been fixed at the source for sometime now. When did you experience the problems with yours?


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

*I'm on the fence (pun intended)*

Thanks everyone, all good information. Can anyone tell me if there are differences in the fence system that would steer you toward one or the other? All the Home Depots near me seem to be out of stock right now and the Ridgid I looked at a few weeks ago was missing the fence. The Craftsman I looked at yesterday was so poorly assembled I really could not get a feel for the fence. It would not line up the same way twice but since pieces were missing and it was every screw was loose I could not blame the design.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

The craftsman has a bit bigger motor, a bit wider riving knife and a slightly longer cord. 

Sears doesn't have anyone that's familiar with saws assemble the floor models, so it doesn't surprise me their fence was falling apart. Neither fence is stellar, or terrible.


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## jeffsw6 (Nov 24, 2012)

knotscott said:


> Jeff - The 21833, R4512, and the Griz G0715P all shared a similar design under the hood, and all had a similar alignment issue on the earlier models made. The problem has supposedly been fixed at the source for sometime now. When did you experience the problems with yours?


I bought my R4512 on November 10th. Exchanged it for a second one around December 10th. The second one was actually further out of alignment than the first one -- more than 3/16" off! It got worse as the blade was raised but it was not usable at any blade height.

I heard that Emerson makes the three saws you mention above. I am not considering the G0715P. I'm thinking about buying the G1023RLW which is a $1400 saw. The smaller saws would be just fine for me but I just don't want to waste more time on defective ones.  I have barely enough room for the G1023RLW if I buy the mobile base kit.

EDIT: As far as the R4512 fence goes, I had no problem getting the fence lined up on either of my two saws. I thought it was a good saw other than the stupid trunnion being made wrong on my units. If Home Depot would assemble one for me in the store and show it squares up right I would buy one. But they refused to do that and I already spent two days assembling defective saws only to have to return them.  I even offered to pay them to assemble it but they said no.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

jeffsw6 said:


> I bought my R4512 on November 10th. Exchanged it for a second one around December 10th. The second one was actually further out of alignment than the first one -- more than 3/16" off! It got worse as the blade was raised but it was not usable at any blade height.
> 
> I heard that Emerson makes the three saws you mention above. ....


That's not good if there are still current models on the shelf that are defective. Buyer's take note.

Emerson owns the Ridgid name, but hasn't made any of their saws since the TS3612 ...~ 2003. AFAIK, Dayton makes the R4512 and 21833.


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## against_the_grain (Aug 15, 2010)

jeffsw6 said:


> I bought a Ridgid R4512 new at Home Depot. Blade wouldn't square up. Ridgid customer service said trunnion must have been manufactured wrong and to exchange it for a replacement saw.
> 
> Exchanged for a replacement that had the same problem.
> 
> ...


I am seriously considering this saw so I took note of your issues.
I read your post over in the Ridgid forum and you stated you couldn't get the blade to square with the miter slot. And the closest you could get it was .078125" on the first saw. 

I guess my question is , did you check the arbor itself ? In the case of the blade and miter slot, either the blade or the miter slot could have been out of square. Either way, suppose that would still be an issue.

I have researched arbor misalignment and any misalignment greater than .001 measured on a 2" flange on the arbor and the arbor should be replaced. 

However, this is not how you measured the misalignment according to your post. 

I'm not questioning that your saws were not in alignment to the miter slot. I am respectively trying to understand what is acceptable and what the causes could of been, and fixes available.

I also am not sure how much a misalignment of the arbor is translated to the blade. Or if the table or blade were not square.

In my reading on arbor misalignments I have found some reasons for out of alignment readings can be simple things like burrs or nicks on the arbor washers that can happen by simply dropping the washer.

Your reading translates to less than one tenth , of a hundredth inch. So, that doesn't sound like much , but if the arbor were that much out of alignment , then its too much.

Also saw where another poster there had the same problem and had to redrill the trunnion holes to correct it.

I'm just hoping I don't experience this. Being that there are only two of you in that post with that problem, I'm hoping this was a brief over-sight in quality control.

I also have seen where the factory alignment is often off. But they cover the alignment procedures in the assembly instructions.


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## jeffsw6 (Nov 24, 2012)

against_the_grain said:


> I guess my question is , did you check the arbor itself ? In the case of the blade and miter slot, either the blade or the miter slot could have been out of square. Either way, suppose that would still be an issue.


I did not check the arbor. I tried to perform the trunnion alignment procedure you noticed in the manual, but it would not go closer to true, I could only push it further out of alignment.

The miter slot itself was square with the right side of the table, the fence, and the blade insert hole. That, plus having tried the recommended procedure to align the trunnion, and failed, was enough for me to return the saw. And the second saw. :/

On my first saw, raising and lowering the blade did not affect the amount of mis-alignment. This only happened on the second one. I suspected it had two different problems and I wasn't about to try to learn about it in any more detail.

It sounds like you have a lot of knowledge about table saws, so maybe you will be better able to troubleshoot any problems you run into.

Hopefully you won't have bad luck like I did!


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## jeffsw6 (Nov 24, 2012)

One helpful thing I can tell you about the R4512 is, if you decide to buy one, it takes a lot of time with allen wrenches to assemble it. You'll spend an hour just doing that. If you have a set of hex bits for your socket wrench or electric screwdriver it will save you a lot of time. You need more sizes than are in a common "homeowner's socket set." I bought a GearWrench 12pcs metric set.


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

Again I want to thank everyone for their input. I think I have decided on the Ridgid if I can get Home Depot to let me use the HF coupon, the C-man 21833 if not. I am thinking the extra $50 might be worth it for the 1/4 HP more motor and the C-man name on the machine if I ever decide to sell it.

This has been frustrating for me because I have been looking for almost 3 months now, searching the Pittsburgh and Northern Panhandle Craigslist daily for a used cabinet saw around $500 or $600 I seem to find saws that are junk or out of my price range or to far away. The cost of gas makes it unreasonably expensive to drive long distances to just look at saws since the trip may not be fruitful. So I resigned my self to a new hybrid assuming modern dust control and safety features would be worth the trade off.


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## Gannicus (Dec 26, 2012)

regesullivan said:


> Again I want to thank everyone for their input. I think I have decided on the Ridgid if I can get Home Depot to let me use the HF coupon, the C-man 21833 if not. I am thinking the extra $50 might be worth it for the 1/4 HP more motor and the C-man name on the machine if I ever decide to sell it.
> 
> This has been frustrating for me because I have been looking for almost 3 months now, searching the Pittsburgh and Northern Panhandle Craigslist daily for a used cabinet saw around $500 or $600 I seem to find saws that are junk or out of my price range or to far away. The cost of gas makes it unreasonably expensive to drive long distances to just look at saws since the trip may not be fruitful. So I resigned my self to a new hybrid assuming modern dust control and safety features would be worth the trade off.


Honestly, if the first HD doesn't take it, try try again. The Rigid Lifetime warranty is greater than the 1/4 hp motor IMHO. I just went through this decision myself. Ultimately, the Rigid and the Lifetime Warranty won out. Got the saw for $399. :thumbsup:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

See, I'd got the other way, I'd feel the hp was worth more the a warranty as table saws have a pretty low failure rate.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Gannicus said:


> Honestly, if the first HD doesn't take it, try try again. The Rigid Lifetime warranty is greater than the 1/4 hp motor IMHO. I just went through this decision myself. Ultimately, the Rigid and the Lifetime Warranty won out. Got the saw for $399. :thumbsup:


For the record, ridgid stationary power tools DO NOT carry a lifetime warranty. E carry a three year guaranty and are eligible fot registration with ridged's lifetime service agreement.


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## Gannicus (Dec 26, 2012)

toolguy1000 said:


> For the record, ridgid stationary power tools DO NOT carry a lifetime warranty. E carry a three year guaranty and are eligible fot registration with ridged's lifetime service agreement.


The 4512 does.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Gannicus said:


> The 4512 does.


I think Toolguy is pointing out that the standard 3 year warranty, and the LSA are two different things. The LSA doesn't cover as much as the original warranty does. It's still better than a stick in the eye, but read the fine print.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

the LSA sounds pretty good to me:

http://www.ridgid.com/tools/power-tool-warranty

but as it's own wording says in the "additional limitations" section, it's not a warranty.

sorry to burst your bubble, gannicus, but the 4512 does not appear to carry a lifetime warranty. but the LSA should, if properly registered, provide whatever repairs are needed free for life, assuming no abuse or misuse.


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

*Pulled the trigger on a R4512*

Just wanted to let those that took the time time/effort to help me decide that I bought the Ridgid. I ended up getting a Refurb at Direct Tools. I also picked up a "blemished" BS1400 band saw. Both saws together were less than a new R4512 from HD and I couldn't pass that up.

I checked the heel (alignment) to the miter slot and it was within a couple of 1000ths so I figured it was good enough and did not mess with any changes. The table was surprisingly flat but has a little bit of a lip on one the right side but I believe I can grind that off. I would prefer to have a very slight bevel anyway. I will finish putting it together tomorrow and post if there are any problems.

The band saw will have to wait until I have more time but I plan to tune it as I go.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Need pics!


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

regesullivan said:


> Just wanted to let those that took the time time/effort to help me decide that I bought the Ridgid. I ended up getting a Refurb at Direct Tools. I also picked up a "blemished" BS1400 band saw. Both saws together were less than a new R4512 from HD and I couldn't pass that up.
> 
> I checked the heel (alignment) to the miter slot and it was within a couple of 1000ths so I figured it was good enough and did not mess with any changes. The table was surprisingly flat but has a little bit of a lip on one the right side but I believe I can grind that off. I would prefer to have a very slight bevel anyway. I will finish putting it together tomorrow and post if there are any problems.
> 
> The band saw will have to wait until I have more time but I plan to tune it as I go.


congrats on your buys. you're aware that refurbished tools carry a one years guaranty and are not eligible for the LSA? also, check out the ridgid.com website forum for several threads dealing with making the bs1400 a serviceable saw. it unfortunately has a reputation for being the weakest link among ridgid's stationary tool offerings.


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## craftsman70 (Apr 8, 2013)

@regesullivan, I just came across this thread. I'm not far from you (Pittsburgh). Just this weekend I went to the HD in Washington and picked up the R4512 but it had the defect. I had called Tools Direct first and they said they had 10 people on the waiting list to get that saw. I assume that is where you got yours. So you did well by being able to get one right away and defect free. Any new updates on your saw?


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

I just happened to look at a contractor saw in the fall of 2011 in Direct Tools and put my name on the waiting list for the R4512. So a year later I was on my way to the HD in Washington to pick one up and thought I'd stop at Direct Tools just to see where I was still on the "list" and they happened to mention 2 were due in the next morning. I guess I got lucky because when I got there the next morning before they opened one was already gone!!! I am pretty sure they never intended to call me.

It's been a great saw and I have not had any of the alignment problems so many talk about. Some marks on the fence rails but nothing that causes any problems. It went together pretty easy and all the parts were there. The only thing I really needed the manual for were the casters... They are a little confusing but if you study the pictures you will get it in no time. The fence is way better then the saw I was using but some day I would like to up grade it or build one of my own.

I live in N. Strabane. What part of Pittsburgh are you from? I grew up in Baldwin and lived in Mt Lebanon for 20 years.


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## dvalery20 (Jan 27, 2011)

regesullivan said:


> I searched the forum and found lots of threads and good information on these two saws but not much comparing the two. I know they are almost identical but the 21833 is about $50 more right now. So is there any reason to spend the extra $50 for the Craftsman. I see that the craftsman can be converted to 220v but would that really make much of a difference. Also, might it be possible to convert the Rigid to 220v.


Not sure if you've made your choice, but is there a reason you are going with either Craftsmen or Ridgid?


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

dvalery20 - Both saws seemed like they would meet my needs best of all the saws I looked at. So I did buy the R4512 a few months ago because it fit my current need needs I could see into the near future, it was small and light enough to get into my basement shop with relative ease and the price was down right amazing compared to most of the junk that was on CL. I feel I could have spent a lot more and got a lot less so I perceived it as a great deal. After using it for the last few months I can tell you it meet my needs, exceeds my expectations and I am sure it was the right decision for my situation.


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## Flying Eye (Oct 14, 2013)

*R4512*



regesullivan said:


> I searched the forum and found lots of threads and good information on these two saws but not much comparing the two. I know they are almost identical but the 21833 is about $50 more right now. So is there any reason to spend the extra $50 for the Craftsman. I see that the craftsman can be converted to 220v but would that really make much of a difference. Also, might it be possible to convert the Rigid to 220v.


 Yes the Rigid R4512 is convertible between 110 VAC and 220 VAC:thumbsup:


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## Steve M. (Jun 4, 2013)

I have the Rigid. Mine is almost perfect.:thumbsup:
I did have many burrs along all the groove edges and some very minor chips along the right edge of the cast iron table where it meets the stamped steel wing. The burrs all came off with a very light 220 grit sandpaper. The chips are still there but the 220 grit sandpaper smoothed them out enough to be almost gone. I plan on filing them completely away once I'm sure I know what I'm doing. There was some minor rust and lots of grease. The rust all came off with 0000 steel wool and I got most of the grease out of the gears except where I just had no access.
The saw was heavy at 245+ pounds and hard to get down to the basement but luckily it was in pieces in the box so I was able to make multiple trips. However, the cast iron top, motor and trunions were all one piece and that was where the real weight was. It took me 3 to 4 evenings to put it all together but I was taking my time and having fun. I was very careful and I got everything lined up perfect. The fence slides easy with just one finger. It crosses right over the joint in the support tube without a hitch. Sometimes I slide the fence around for fun just to see how far it will go on it's own. (I had read blogs that complained about the fence catching on that joint so I just took some extra time to align it as close as possible). I fine tuned the fence to my blade and it holds perfect for me cut after cut. I suppose I was lucky because I was able to align the blade perfectly square and true, at least true enough for me. I did buy the 60 tooth Diablo Freud blade and that cut so smooth that I didn't need to sand, even on 45 degree miters in 3/4" plywood 7 feet long. Amazing cuts...
The saw moves easily with the wheels down and drops down nice and solid with the wheels up. In fact I have a large open basement shop with a concrete floor and I pushed the saw across the floor with a spin and it spun smoothly all the way across the room like it was on ice.
My only real complaint would be the dust collection port location. It is a vertical drop located DIRECTLY over the crossbar for the wheel carriage. There's not much room so it's difficult to get a hose attached and then turned fast enough to clear the crossbar but it can be done.
All in all I am happy with the Rigid. I paid $399 without a coupon. I bought it online to pickup at the store and when I arrived the woman wheeled it out on a flat dolly, had me sign for it and said goodbye. I watched her wander off, sighed and looked around for some loading dock brusiers to help me heft it into the van.:blink:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Guys....did you notice this is a six month old thread that had been all answered and closed up.


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## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

It is an old thread but still good information for folks looking at saws. Just to update my experience, the saw has been great, no problems so far. I do wish the table was designed to take the thicker throat plates. The ZCI's I make seem to be more complicated then what you make for most saws. Still, I believe it was a good choice for my needs and the price at Tools Direct was just fantastic.


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