# Very Small Dovetail Joints - Need Help with



## TwoLeftHands (Dec 6, 2008)

Howdee! How ya’ll boys and girls doing today?

This is Mike (Hello) and of course I’m new at this woodworking just a tad. I’m wanting to learn how to make dovetails. The type of dovetails I need to make are the tiny ones like those used on vintage wooden Remington Cartridges cases. Those are Full Dovetails of the Box/Finger type. I will be making true Full dovetail joints. But this should give you the idea just the same.


Here is why, I’m asking for your comments. My wood material is called hobby board from Lowes. It is 3/8 ths thick by 4 inch width by 36 inch long. This will be just a square frame to hold a really tiny train set. In other words this is very lightweight application, nothing heavy. But it should still be durable even with such small wooden boards.


My dovetail bit is a Woodline WL-1300 which according to their site has a 7 ½ degree Angle on it, with a ¼ inch Width, a 5/16 cutting length and a ¼ inch Shank which came all the way from Taiwan so it must be a good’un. I already have a dandy Ryobi router with a ¼ inch collet size. So I should be good there too.


Sorry for the blah blah blah now my questions are here.


I looked at the dovetail jigs from Porter-Cable, DeWalt, Rockler, and Leigh. The Leigh I’m very impressed with just for the ISOLock feature but it seems a little out of my range to be starting off with. 


Now the Porter-Cable and the DeWalt jig both looks to me like they are identical??? Is this correct in fact?


The reason I ask is because I can get the Porter Cable jig locally. Then I saw on the UK *bay site a comb or template if you will, that has very tightly spaced combs to allow me closer pins and tails like I will need for this size of wood.

To clarify: the Porter-Cable jig comes with a ½ inch comb so I’m thinking I will need this DeWalt DE6215 comb to make the closer joints. 


Would anyone know if this comb will fit the Porter-Cable jig. 


Also does anyone know if I’m starting out in the right direction to achieve the desired results in the first place!


Thanks For your Comments and Suggestions.

Mike


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I don't know if it will fit. An alternative would be to cut them by hand, and save the money.


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

It is not known whether the template (comb) will fit the rest of the jig. There is some setup to consider regarding depth of cut and front board stops and hardware. I doubt that dewalt and porter cable are interchangable. You'll also need a dovetail bushing plate depending on what templates you use.

finger joints arent dove tail...they are finger joints. dove tails are shaped like ..a doves tail in flight.


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## jwcole (Nov 22, 2008)

Does it have to be a Dovetail, or could you use a box joint... I Googled "box joint jig" and there are several ways to make them, cheap too.
Just a thought.

Jonathan


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## TwoLeftHands (Dec 6, 2008)

Howdy,

Well fellas I took your comments into consideration I went out purchased the table saw, dado blade and made several attempts to hand make box joints instead of dovetails. I bought the Ryobi BTS10s el. cheapo table saw, got it home, got it assembled. Started cranking 'em out. One right after the next. Bam, no good, no good, no good. Hmmm,well google did say you'd have to fiddle with the setup to get it right. Change this, change that, change this again. Hmm. Hmmmmm!Could it be this 1~2mm slop, play,whatever you want to call it, in the mitre guage and fence channels.... Would you think that would exagerate the further along you go??? Yep it sure does !!!

I box 'er right up an head on back to the Big Orange Store, set 'er down on the RETURNS counter cash 'er right back in! Turn around and start looking at the 500~600 tables all the while thinking (OEM jig 200 ~~~~ table saw 500~600) when I notice on one of the few models actually setup up in the store. Hey, these medium range priced saws use the same Piece Of Junk T-channels and they have just as much slop in them as the el. cheapo models do.

Heading on over to the Big Blue Store where I picked up the Porter Cable Jig and the mini-dovetail template. When I get back home I slap 'er down on a piece of brace wood with two puney screws and I'm off to the races. My first cut wasn't the pictoral cut but it did go together! A few more cuts and my setup was tweaked and fine tuned.

Table saw box joint method = 6hrs wasted time
Manufactured dovetail Jig method = 1hr with promising results

LESSONS LEARNED

FIRST OFF, Don't be goaded by old school mentality (make your own! yeah right) They're not helping ANYONE. They're mainly here to stroke their own ego's it appears.

If you intend to make box joints; buy and use the $2,000 precision machined table.

Quarter inch pins quickly turn into 3/8 ths and larger on a low end saw.

If you need a QUICK and inexpensive solution; buy the Manufactured Jig either Rockler, Porter Cable, Dewalt, or Leich.

GOOGLE is NOT the woodworker's FRIEND, I waded through tons of hair brained jigs by everybody and their Brother. Don't waste the time.

If I'm ever in the market for a lobotomy, I know where to seek advice.

Thanks Again!
Mike


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## Deadhead Derek (Dec 15, 2008)

I may be new here, but what the hell was all that? 
Here is a thought get a saw and hand cut the doves. it is a 4" board for chirst sake. 
or just buy the boxes for your ammo.


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## TwoLeftHands (Dec 6, 2008)

Welcome to the forum Derek, it's very clear you picked an appropriate user name! I made my follow-up remarks only to save somebody else some time and effort that would be starting out making a somewhat decent effort at joint cuts. These remarks were intended towards those individuals with a little 'walking around' sense.



> Here is a thought get a saw and hand cut the doves.


Derek, here is a better/quicker/cheaper method. How about four sheet rock screws and a dab of elmers! Does the same job, just isn't the same effect is it?

I distinctly recall stating in the original post that I was attempting to make train pedestals with nice looking corners. I cannot help you with your reading comprehension or spelling problems. I can only TRY to help out other novice woodworkers who are trying to determine which way to go. Buy the Jig, buy a cheap Jig if you want to, either one will give you better results than a weeks worth of handcut attempts.

Thank You for your comments Derek, I'm sure your point helped someone even if it's just you!

Regards,
Mike:laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

TwoLeftHands said:


> Welcome to the forum Derek, it's very clear you picked an appropriate user name! I made my follow-up remarks only to save somebody else some time and effort that would be starting out making a somewhat decent effort at joint cuts. These remarks were intended towards those individuals with a little 'walking around' sense.
> 
> Derek, here is a better/quicker/cheaper method. How about four sheet rock screws and a dab of elmers! Does the same job, just isn't the same effect is it?
> 
> ...



From your explanation of your difficulty with craftsmanship, it may be clear that you picked an appropriate username. However you accomplish your joinery, do it so you're satisfied. If you prefer the ease of a jig, that's up to you. My 'walking around sense' tells me that some are willing to improve their skills, and others give up too soon. 

I seem to get excellent results doing small joinery on the table saw, with hand tools, or a jig. You might just need more practice. 

BTW, Elmers should be capitalized. Is my spelling OK?:smile:


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## Deadhead Derek (Dec 15, 2008)

TwoLeftHands said:


> Howdy,
> 
> Well *fellas* I took your comments into consideration I went out purchased the table saw, dado blade and made several attempts to hand make box joints instead of dovetails. I bought the Ryobi BTS10s el. cheapo table saw, got it home, got it assembled. Started cranking *'em* out. One right after the next. Bam, no good, no good, no good. Hmmm,well google did say you'd have to fiddle with the setup to get it right. Change this, change that, change this again. Hmm. Hmmmmm!Could it be this 1~2mm slop, play,whatever you want to call it, in the mitre *guage* and fence channels.... Would you think that would *exagerate* the further along you go??? *Yep* it sure does !!!
> 
> ...


With this post you mock my spelling? I've yet to find an error in my last, perhaps it isn't up to the English as a second language standards as taught by Larry the Cable Guy, but there you have it. 

I cut a great deal of my joints by hand, and I was indicating that it needn't take hours, nor days, to do. 
As to my preference to listen to a particular band, is that not the same as saying those who listen to (name any genre of music) all, without exception exhibit the same characteristics of the most stereotyped base of the fans? I enjoy the Grateful Dead, as does former Republican Gov. of Massachusetts William Weld.



> If I'm ever in the market for a lobotomy, I know where to seek advice.


My comments were based mostly on this line, as with how it was written appeared to intimate that those who had responded to your narrative were of the post lobotomy surgery and as such shouldn't address your concerns.
I wish you the best in your endeavors


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## TwoLeftHands (Dec 6, 2008)

Let me try one more time, my better judgement tells me not to but for the sake of fairness.

Very Small Dovetail Joints - Need Help with

Does anybody know or have made small dovetails or box joints smaller than quarter inch which is the smallest possible with a commercial Jig, either by using a router bit intended for this specific purpose or know of a Jig that can do eighth inch finger joints? If so what is that bit called or what is the name of the Jig that can do it? 

Before we get back to the 'hand made' track I just want to quote another member here that stated that his customer could not afford his products if the joints were made by hand because the labor alone would be cost prohibitive. Now this remark came from a man who makes his living at this, it sure sounds like the voice of experience to me. On the other hand, If this goal was my sole purpose in life I'm sure I could learn the task with the time I had available to put toward it.

Are we sensible enough to turn this dialog into some information that could prove useful to (a) Me (b) anybody else who needs a solution to this question.

Mike


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Why don't you consider splines? You can make them as thin as you want even on any old cheap table saw. Or with a router table, or even just a router and shop-built indexing jig and a 1/8 or 3/16" flute or spiral bit. 

You'll see in my signature I sell a spline jig, but for what you are trying to do you don't need it. Shop-built spline jigs are easy to make, and the splines themselves are also easy. 

The look of the splines would not be exactly like the box joints but they are in the same ballpark, and I think they look super. Easier to do too IMHO.


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## Deadhead Derek (Dec 15, 2008)

withdrawn.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Derek,

Anyone is welcome to post their questions on this forum as long as they are sincere, no matter if they may seem ignorant or even silly to you or anyone else. 

Your responses are not what any reasonable person would view as "friendly", and if you can't reply to someone in the same manner that you would want to be treated then just stay out of the thread. 

This kind of tone does nothing but offend the other guy since it is obviously meant to ridicule him personally, then it snowballs into a flaming war and the thread gets canned. 

Feel free to share your woodworking experience but please leave the hateful verbiage out of your posts in the future.


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## Rasterick (Dec 18, 2008)

*Take a look at the Woodrat*

Take a look at the Woodrat. It boasts dovetails to any size. http://www.woodrat.com I have to admit it does take a bit of getting used to, but the possibilities are endless.


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## TwoLeftHands (Dec 6, 2008)

*RE: Very Small Dovetail Joints - need help with*

Thanks for the suggestions, I looked at both the Kehoe and Woodrat setups. Both of them look to fit the Bill. I'll probably order the Kehoe jig just in case I want to make some durable joints. It looks like it's right up my alley since it looks easy to use. The Woodrat might be the ticket if I think I'll be doing more projects down the road, than what I'm looking at doing right now.

Another possibility I found that looks easy to use was a box joint router bit that I found on mlcswoodworking.com which is their part number 7860. It looks like it would do the job for me but I'd have to buy another router that can handle a half inch shank for that bit only comes in half inch shank. I don't think the Ryobi I have will let me change out from the standard quarter inch collet unless there is a generic adapter kit made for that purpose.

Thank you both for your suggestions both are being considered!

Regards,
Mike


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## [email protected] (Jan 10, 2009)

*Woodrat*



Rasterick said:


> Take a look at the Woodrat. It boasts dovetails to any size. http://www.woodrat.com I have to admit it does take a bit of getting used to, but the possibilities are endless.


 Talked with someone in the know don't waste you're mony


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