# Finish for Douglas Fir Table Top



## CgDeans (May 25, 2016)

Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum and am building a drafting table using reclaimed Douglas Fir. I have finalized all of the plans, however cannot determine the best finish for my application. I am looking for a surface that is durable, clear (would like to sustain its natural appearance), and matte/satin. The surface will be used for writing/sketching, primarily with a pencil.

Criteria:
- Durable
- Clear
- Matte or Satin

I have read for hours on end about various products and their benefits/weaknesses, but would be great to hear from those with experience. I appreciate that it may not be possible to guarantee a 100% scratch resistant surface, however, I will be satisfied with a finish that is relatively durable without looking like an embossed etch-a-sketch. 

Thanks in advance for your help!

_CgDeans _


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Is the area were you will be drawing Douglas Fir? The wood is so soft I think you will have a lot of indentations from the pencil. 

As far as finishing that isn't a problem. If you will be using a stain the wood is prone to blotch so use a wood conditioner prior to staining. Work out your finish schedule on scrap wood before using it on the table. You will have to use a darker stain than you think going over a wood conditioner. It's a sealer which makes the wood resist staining. For a topcoat you might use an interior oil based polyurethane if you are going with a color that is medium to dark. Oil based finishes tend to yellow over time and show up on light wood. If the wood is light you might use a natural stain and then topcoat with a water based polyurethane. It will remain clear and is nearly as good a finish as it's oil based counterpart. If you have the means of spraying you might use a conversion varnish. It will remain clear and is a better finish than the poly.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

I've never used a wood conditioner, so Steve's suggestions are probably the best way to go ... I am not as knowledgeable as most of the members here.

I've always gone with a simple stain and polyurethane finish. If you read the labels, each stain has a recommended finish to go over it.

1) Stain the wood a little, to bring out the grain.
2) Using a glass jar, thin enough polyurethane to coat the table top. I think that first coat so it really absorbs deep into the wood. I feel this gives the wood a harder surface to resist denting. It will take a little longer than the recommended time for this coat to dry out, so give it enough.
3) Light sanding to smooth out the raised wood from the "soaking".
4) Apply a second coat as directed on the can.
5) Apply a third coat if needed.

This is probably NOT the best way to go, as far as advanced wood working goes, but it's produced some nice, durable surfaces for me in the past.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

There is a lot of different species of wood that have hard and soft spots in the wood. All pines, spruce, maple, alder and birch are some of the most common. Left untreated without a wood conditioner the soft spots of the wood accept more stain than the rest of the board and look blotchy. When you use a wood conditioner, it is a thin sealer which the soft spots of the wood soak up more of the conditioner than the harder spots so when dry the surface is more uniform in density. Then the stain is more likely to stain uniform. It's not completely simple, it will take a little tinkering to achieve the right amount of conditioner. If the conditioner is too concentrated the wood won't stain and too thin the wood will blotch anyway.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

Yeah, I understand the rationale ... and I fully understand the reasoning. AND, more importantly, I believe you. I think CGDeans should follow your advice.
But I am 1) cheap and 2) old and slow to buy more stuff.

I rarely leave stain on as long as I am "supposed" to. Pretty much, I wipe it on and wipe it off in one move. If it's not dark enough, I wipe it again. 
I am sure it's not the way to do it ... but it's always worked well enough, and I don't get absorption spots. 

I am just now getting into stabilized wood for knife handles, and I'll be trying to stain some of that (maybe this afternoon). So I am eager to see if the wipe on method works, or if I'll need to leave it one for langer periods of time.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Douglas-fir (_Pseudotsuga menziesii_) is unique among all the conifers. In each wood cell wall, there is the usual primary cell wall layer and the secondary cell wall layer, inside the primary.
That wall has 3 layers = S1, S2 and S3, like any other wood.
BUT
Dougfir has an additional "spiral thickening" in the S2. Wet with anything and the coil warps and the cut part of those cells stick up through the finish.
You can sand and sand, use a lot of time for little gain.

Here's the dendrology/botany trick:
First finish coat. Let that set up good and hard. 
Extra coarse steel wool has flat strands which cut like a million chisels. 
Use that to go over the wood and the strands will plane off the "sticky-up bits" without planing off the finish.

I've worked with a couple of the Asian species (_P. wilsoniana, P. sinensis_) but I do not remember if there's a spiral S2 layer or not.


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## CgDeans (May 25, 2016)

Steve Neul said:


> Is the area were you will be drawing Douglas Fir? The wood is so soft I think you will have a lot of indentations from the pencil.
> 
> As far as finishing that isn't a problem. If you will be using a stain the wood is prone to blotch so use a wood conditioner prior to staining. Work out your finish schedule on scrap wood before using it on the table. You will have to use a darker stain than you think going over a wood conditioner. It's a sealer which makes the wood resist staining. For a topcoat you might use an interior oil based polyurethane if you are going with a color that is medium to dark. Oil based finishes tend to yellow over time and show up on light wood. If the wood is light you might use a natural stain and then topcoat with a water based polyurethane. It will remain clear and is nearly as good a finish as it's oil based counterpart. If you have the means of spraying you might use a conversion varnish. It will remain clear and is a better finish than the poly.


Thanks for your knowledge, Steve. Had you not mentioned wood conditioner, I would have left out this stage. Currently, I am debating whether I skip the stain process or not. I'll wait and see how the surface looks before making the a decision. Would it be advisable to use wood conditioner and go straight to my finishing coats? 





mikechell said:


> I've never used a wood conditioner, so Steve's suggestions are probably the best way to go ... I am not as knowledgeable as most of the members here.
> 
> I've always gone with a simple stain and polyurethane finish. If you read the labels, each stain has a recommended finish to go over it.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Mike. You are referring to a polyurethane varnish correct? Always great to hear from someone with experience.





Robson Valley said:


> Douglas-fir (_Pseudotsuga menziesii_) is unique among all the conifers. In each wood cell wall, there is the usual primary cell wall layer and the secondary cell wall layer, inside the primary.
> That wall has 3 layers = S1, S2 and S3, like any other wood.
> BUT
> Dougfir has an additional "spiral thickening" in the S2. Wet with anything and the coil warps and the cut part of those cells stick up through the finish.
> ...


Thanks, I had no idea the nature of the cells in the Douglas Fir species. I would have to be careful when sanding with steel wool as to not rub through the previous finish. I assume that a Scotch-Brite pad would not be aggressive enough?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The only reason to use a wood conditioner is if you are going to use a stain.


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## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

My favorite polyurethane.


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

The key point about the extra coarse steel wool is that the strands are flat. They cut like chisels.
I'll guess that the ScotchBrite fibers are round.
Go gently and your sense of touch will let you know when you have clipped everything off.

What surprises me the most is how little damage the steel wool does to whatever the finish is,
even on very contoured Doug fir molding used as a chair rail.


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