# Installing new guide rails for Biesemeyer style fence setup



## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

I recently bought a gently used Craftsman Professional table saw. I guess that you would call it a cabinet saw. It has a Biesemeyer style fence, and I purchased a new set of Delta 55" guide rails that I would like to install in order to have the ability to make wider cuts. Do you guys have any advice on how to install these new guide rails? It is my understanding that the tubing should be exactly 13/16" down from the top of the table, and 3/4" back from the inside edge of the angle iron that supports the tubing to the inside edge of the tubing itself. Does this sound accurate? Any suggestions on how to get this to come out properly? I have been suggested to get a 3/4" piece of material that is exactly 3/4" and clamp it inbetweem the angle iron and tubing, and then do something similar for the 13/16" from the top. Any advice, suggestions, tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated!


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

Anyone?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I'd have to look at my fence*

If you removed a Biesemeyer rail why wouldn't you just duplicate the same condition for your new rails? You are using a Biesemeyer fence... right? Or is it a clone?

Building it "backwards" from not knowing the offsets and spacing might be tough. Are there no directions with the new rails? 
This is a newer Biesemeyer fence, but the construction should be similiar. Note how the cam and lever operate to press against the front of the rail. On the rear of the fence is a spring pressure bar.
The adjustment to snug it 2 set screws that increase the pressure on the back of thre spring bar.

TS fence and Rails


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> If you removed a Biesemeyer rail why wouldn't you just duplicate the same condition for your new rails? You are using a Biesemeyer fence... right? Or is it a clone?
> 
> Building it "backwards" from not knowing the offsets and spacing might be tough. Are there no directions with the new rails?
> This is a newer Biesemeyer fence, but the construction should be similiar. Note how the cam and lever operate to press against the front of the rail. On the rear of the fence is a spring pressure bar.
> ...


Well my Craftsman Profession table saw came with a stockBiesemeyer fence but the guide rails only extended out 30", and the new rails that I purchased are from Delta. So although I haven't removed the stock rails, nor have I really looked that hard at the new Delta rails, (haven't had the time to devote to this yet) but I was told that I would have to drill new holes to mount the new Delta rails to my Craftsman t/s. 

I need to get the new Delta rails out and see if the mounting holes for the tubing to the angle iron in front are pre drilled, it just occurred to me that they probably are. If so, then that dimension is covered (3/4") and I shouldn't have to mess with it, however, I highly doubt that the pre drilled holes (in the angle iron that the tubing mounts to) are going to line up with the holes on my Craftsman t/s's cast iron top, so I am assuming that will have to figure out a way to get the distance from the cast iron top to the top of the rails, which should be 13/16". Do you think that the holes that come in the Delta angle iron might be able to line up with the ones in the cast iron top on my craftsman t/s?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*regardless ....*

You are a bit ahead of yourself here. The holes may or may not align, at this point you don't know. If they don't it's not all that difficult to transfer the locations to the new rails.

Lay them side by side and align any hole that do match up. Then clamp them together. Using a tri-square transfer the old locations to the new rails using a sharp scribe like a drywall screw. Circle the marks with a sharpie, center punch them and then drill them out. 

Here's where you may have a problem. On my fence, the rectangular tube which the fence slides on is drilled and tapped on the underside for the bolts that secure it to the angle which is bolted to the saw's table and extensions. Be prepared to drill and tap new holes using a 7/32" drill and a 1/4" X 20 tap.

We may have the same saw, mine's a 22124 Craftsman with a `1 3/4HP motor and the Biesemeyer fence. This setup is plenty wide enough for me at 30". If you need the full 50" capacity you will have to add a wood extension table as well as longer angles attached to the saw at the front and rear. You will also need vertical end supports OR braces back to the saw's base if you saw is on a mobile base. 

This is a whole lot of work just to get the 50" capacity in my opinion. It would easier to just pre-cut and panels to the approximate wide with a circular saw and straight edge... unless you are making a whole lot of cabinets.

Even then, the depth of most cabinets is 24" front to back, so no need for any widths greater than 30", again just my opinion.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You may have to drill new holes to match your saw but the Biesmeyer fence is just angle iron and tubular steel. I had extra table extensions from a saw I retired so I welded an extra length of angle iron to the fence system to support the extensions on the left side of the table.


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> You are a bit ahead of yourself here. The holes may or may not align, at this point you don't know. If they don't it's not all that difficult to transfer the locations to the new rails.
> 
> Lay them side by side and align any hole that do match up. Then clamp them together. Using a tri-square transfer the old locations to the new rails using a sharp scribe like a drywall screw. Circle the marks with a sharpie, center punch them and then drill them out.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, that is the same saw that I have. I plan to be using it daily in my cabinet building business that I am starting. Eventually I will pick up a Delta Unisaw but for the moment, this Craftsman Professional 22124 is all that I have to work with. 

Is it necessary to tap these holes? I thought that they are secured with nuts and bolts? right now I don't have a drill press, and I am not so sure that I feel comfortable using a hand held drill for this project. I might go by Harbor Freight and pick up their $269 floor model drill press. It's either that, or the similarly priced Porter Cable unit from Lowes. 

Last question, do you have any tips for getting the exact 13/16" step down that is required for the tubing? (Note that the tubing must be exactly 13/16" from the top of the cast iron surface of the t/s to the top of the guide rail tubing, and the tubing must also be 3/4" back from the front where the angle iron mounts to the cast iron top). Would it still work even if it was off just a small amount?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*drilling the holes*

yes, a drill press would be the best, but a hand drill and center punch will work.

Tapping them? How would you get a nut down inside the 2 x 3 " rectangular tube and located over the hole? That's why you want to tap them OR use a self tapping hex drive sheet metal screw, but I would still drill a through hole in the angle and a pilot hole in the tube to get them started.

You can saw spacer blocks of those dimensions and tape them in place to get the offsets correct.


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

Ok, so it apprears that I need a drill press for drilling out the proper holes in the tubing and angle iron. I don't want to invest all that much info a drill press because I would rarely ever use it. I have worked in a custom cabinet shop for over 2 years and we have one in there and in the two years that I have worked here I have never seen anyone use it even once. Yes, I understand that it might be necessary from time to time, but I don't have much money to invest in one, and I have been watching craigslist for months and non in my area were worth the asking price.


So, need some opinions on two Harbor Freight models (don't hate)
The first one is a 10" 12 speed bench item # 60237 for $139.99 and then the second is 
13" 16 speed floor model item# 61483 and it list for $269.99. I have a 25% off coupon that expires today, so I need to make a decision quickly. Any advice on which one get?


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

Any one have an opinion on the Central Machinery (Harbor Freight) item# 60237 ten inch 12 speed drill press that is at $139.99 or their item # 61483 drill press that list for $269.99? My only purpose is to use this to drill through the angle iron and tubing on my new Delta guide rails that are going on my Craftsman Professional cabinet saw. 

I am sure that I will find various other uses for this down the road, but for now, I just want to spend as little as possible so that I can get up and running and start building cabinets on the side for extra income! I do not have more than $275 to spend, and time is money, so would either of these work for my purposes? I have zero experience with metal working, btw


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I don't think it matters*

I would get the additional warranty for anoth $20.00 or so. You will find additional uses for a drill press in your woodworking career and may even have to drill metals like aluminum. I use my DP for making pocket holes, in the cabinet doors for the 35 MM hinges, using a Forstner bit and a fence to control the location. The depth of the pocket is very important and the DP has an adjustable stop rod to control depth. 


The DP is a perfect tool when used with a hole saw also. Ventilation holes in the back of a electronics cabinet look nice when drilled and spaced accurately.

Probably the smaller DP will work for your needs, and that what I use for a lot of woodworking even though I have a much larger one, a 20" Jet if I need to drill really large holes in metal.


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## bigarm (Mar 11, 2015)

While I don't use my drill press daily (like my cordless drill) it is invaluable when I do need it.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

You don't need a drill press to drill a few holes in the metal tubing, a hand drill will work, just center punch the position, drill a small hole first, say 3/16" in diameter, then drill final size. Spend some of the money you saved on some good quality bits.

If you are taping the holes for bolts find size of bit on this chart:
http://www.newmantools.com/tapdrill.htm


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

FrankC said:


> You don't need a drill press to drill a few holes in the metal tubing, a hand drill will work, just center punch the position, drill a small hole first, say 3/16" in diameter, then drill final size. Spend some of the money you saved on some good quality bits.
> 
> If you are taping the holes for bolts find size of bit on this chart:
> http://www.newmantools.com/tapdrill.htm


Well, I understand that I don't "absolutely" have to have a drill press for this purpose, however, it will serve me well for drilling hinge holes in the cabinet doors that I build. I would really like to have a MiniDrill or whatever they are called, which are basically dedicated bench too hinge drilling machines. I plan to do about 40 to 50 doors a month, so eventually I will need one, now I just need to pick up this drill press from Harbor Freight and find a good Blum style hinge jig.


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

Speaking of drill presses, I found a used bench top Craftsman that is 12 years old but in excellent shape. I wonder if it would get me by until I can afford a larger unit? What are some of the features that I need to be watchful of when it comes to buying a drill press for my purposes of both drilling holes in the angle iron and tubing for my new guide rail upgrade and to do hinge drilling for cabinet doors?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*look for ....*

Look for a chuck that runs true with a round piece of stock like drill rod or other. If it wobbles then yopu have a problem.

Look to see that the belt is lined up as level as possible on the pulley sheaves. You can run a longer belt up one or down one sheave without any harm. Run the motor without a belt and listen for noises that don't sound smooth. Grinding or squeaking noises will mean you have a problem. Turn the arbor pulley by hand and listen and feel for any lack of smoothness.

Look at the table locking mechanism and make certain it works properly. A table that slides down unexpectedly will do some serious damage. 

Make sure the column and the base and the head are all secure before carrying it away OR for ease of moving, take it apart to reduce the weight. If it comes apart when lifting it, you will have a serious problem.

Look at the on/off switch, cord and plug to make certain they are in good shape with no frays or breaks.
The switch should be easy to reach with one hand. If you are right handed, you may be holding the work with your left hand, if it's not clamped down. If there is a problem, you don't want to let go with your left to shut the machine off, and have the work spinning around. I have been smacked real hard with a piece in the drill press and it ain't fun.:no:

My largest DP a Jet 20" has a center switch I can bump with my forehead in an emergency. My small DPs have switches located all over the place.


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> This is a whole lot of work just to get the 50" capacity in my opinion. It would easier to just pre-cut and panels to the approximate wide with a circular saw and straight edge... unless you are making a whole lot of cabinets.
> 
> Even then, the depth of most cabinets is 24" front to back, so no need for any widths greater than 30", again just my opinion.


The OP is doing a little work now to prevent having to do MORE work later... :yes:





The sides are going to 34 1/2" tall for base cabinets. How you gonna cut that on the TS if yours stops at 30"???

What if the guy is doing 36" or 42" (not unusual sizes) wall cabinet parts???

In the time it takes you just to get out your circular saw or special 'sled' that you spent a lot of time fabricating - I will have simply moved my fence to where I wanted it and cut a pile of pieces out. (yes - I said 'cut' and not 'rip'... Table saws are commonly used for BOTH) 

Similar to the many guys that mentored me in cabinet carcass cut-out type stuff - I very rarely ever need to 'leave' the table saw to make the cut (or cuts) that I want to make. Especially so when it comes to sheet goods...

In my opinion - Not having at least 50" of capacity on the table saw would suck big time and that problem would be corrected ASAP.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I only have 28 inches on my table saw currently, and it is a PITA. I have a 54" Biesemeyer laying in the back of the shop that I bought for $30 at an estate sale. After Christmas when I have some more free time I am going to do some fabricating and mount it on the saw.


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> Look for a chuck that runs true with a round piece of stock like drill rod or other. If it wobbles then yopu have a problem.
> 
> Look to see that the belt is lined up as level as possible on the pulley sheaves. You can run a longer belt up one or down one sheave without any harm. Run the motor without a belt and listen for noises that don't sound smooth. Grinding or squeaking noises will mean you have a problem. Turn the arbor pulley by hand and listen and feel for any lack of smoothness.
> 
> ...


I am going to look at this 12yr old bench too Craftsman drill press tomorrow. I will definitely check those things out. Dude wants $75 for it and says that it is in excellent condition with one exception. That is the switch housing on the front has a broken tab so the switch and its housing just kind of hang in place. Not sure if that would be a reason to pass it up, though. Appreciate the advice!


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Danny870 said:


> Last question,* do you have any tips for getting the exact 13/16" step down that is required for the tubing?* (Note that the tubing must be exactly 13/16" from the top of the cast iron surface of the t/s to the top of the guide rail tubing, and the tubing must also be 3/4" back from the front where the angle iron mounts to the cast iron top). *Would it still work even if it was off just a small amount*?


 
It does not have to be 'exactly' 13/16" down to work fine but you want to 'try' to have it the same distance down on both sides if you can help it. A 1/16 (or 1/8th) variation one way or the other from that 13/16" spec will not matter.


This is why:









Notice how the fences on each side are able to be adjusted up and down... :smile:

You got room to play with here... 

The reason that you want to 'try' to get the distance down from the top of the table saw the same on both sides of the square tubing is so that 'if' you generally run your fences very close to the top of the table saw - They will *stay* that way as you move from left to right. 

If one side of the square tubing is higher that the other - The distance between the bottom of the fence and the top of the table will increase as you move towards the 'high side' of the tubing. This slight variation may not even matter to most people depending on what you are cutting (the material thickness).

Fence on far left of picture is factory - Other two are replacements I made myself. The replacement fences I made work, fit and adjust exactly like the factory fences do.

If you plan to 'use' your saw a lot you will likely want a replacement fence or two laying around somewhere... :yes:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

Danny870 said:


> Well, I understand that I don't "absolutely" have to have a drill press for this purpose, however, it will serve me well for drilling hinge holes in the cabinet doors that I build. I would really like to have a MiniDrill or whatever they are called, which are basically dedicated bench too hinge drilling machines. I plan to do about 40 to 50 doors a month, so eventually I will need one, now I just need to pick up this drill press from Harbor Freight and find a good Blum style hinge jig.


 
A drill press is a pretty crappy way to have to do that many doors per month. :yes:

Quality 'dedicated' hinge boring machines are not sold at HF last time I checked... :no:










A 'quality' hinge boring machine is going to be able to do all three holes at the same time, have dust collections provisions, and all the adjustments will be in millimeters. 

No additional Blum jigs or doodads will be required when using them either... :no:


The Blum machines I have seen or used are not so great in the chip / dust collection department. Not much different in dust collection design than sticking the DC hose behind the bit on a drill press when boring doors. (1/2 of your mess will still end up on the floor like that)

I run a 4" dust port on the back of this (sucked at darn close to 1700cfm) and even added custom plexi shielding to the sides to help better direct the suction and STILL lose 10% to the floor. :furious:










Would be much worse with a Blum machine... :yes:

40 to 50 doors per month justify having good tools to do them with. :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*If you are on a tight budget*

A drill press with a fence and stops will make short work of the 35 mm cup hinge pockets:
 

 

 

 

A small jig like this will work for limited numbers of doors:


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

OnealWoodworking said:


> A drill press is a pretty crappy way to have to do that many doors per month. :yes: Quality 'dedicated' hinge boring machines are not sold at HF last time I checked... :no: A 'quality' hinge boring machine is going to be able to do all three holes at the same time, have dust collections provisions, and all the adjustments will be in millimeters. No additional Blum jigs or doodads will be required when using them either... :no: The Blum machines I have seen or used are not so great in the chip / dust collection department. Not much different in dust collection design than sticking the DC hose behind the bit on a drill press when boring doors. (1/2 of your mess will still end up on the floor like that) I run a 4" dust port on the back of this (sucked at darn close to 1700cfm) and even added custom plexi shielding to the sides to help better direct the suction and STILL lose 10% to the floor. :furious: Would be much worse with a Blum machine... :yes: 40 to 50 doors per month justify having good tools to do them with. :thumbsup:


 Last time I checked HF doesn't sell quality anything.


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## Danny870 (Oct 7, 2015)

OnealWoodworking said:


> It does not have to be 'exactly' 13/16" down to work fine but you want to 'try' to have it the same distance down on both sides if you can help it. A 1/16 (or 1/8th) variation one way or the other from that 13/16" spec will not matter.
> 
> 
> This is why:
> ...


Ok, I was not aware of that. That makes me feel more confident in getting these new guide rails installed! It shouldn't be too hard to get it level from left to right. 

My plan is to cut some oak or hard maple into two strips, one being 3/4" and the other being 13/16". Then I plan to use the 3/4" piece as a spacer to get the tubing attached to the angle iron, and then once that is om, clamp the tubing & angle iron in place using the 13/16" piece as a spacer so that I can use a punch to mark where the holes need to be, then take it apart to drill the holes. Does that sound like a good way of doing this?


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