# Router Bits -- bottom out, or not?



## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

I have opinions on a lot of things, but this one has me stumped. Some say, bottom out the router bit, that way it's always registered when you put it back on.
Other folks say, don't bottom out the bit because if you do, the collet will not tighten completely on the bit and you risk a flying cutter.

Now, I hang with the latter crowd, so I have never bottomed out a bit and have nevre had one take flight. But I have had an un-bottomed bit shift in the collet, which really screwed up a piece i was routing. 

What say ye?


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

If you bottom out the bit it can make it harder to remove.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

swp said:


> I have opinions on a lot of things, but this one has me stumped. Some say, bottom out the router bit, that way it's always registered when you put it back on.
> *Other folks say, don't bottom out the bit because if you do, the collet will not tighten completely on the bit and you risk a flying cutter.*
> 
> Now, I hang with the latter crowd, so I have never bottomed out a bit and have never had one take flight. But I have had an un-bottomed bit shift in the collet, which really screwed up a piece i was routing.
> ...


It depends on the bit. If the bit has a radius that leads into the cutter and you attempt to tighten the collet on the radius, it will not fully tighten, come loose and fly across the room breaking the window and all the light fixtures on it's way out.  
Slip a small "O" ring on the shaft of the bit to act as a stop above the radius. That way you can't push the bit all the way down into the collet, but you can pretty well get it back in the same location again.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've always been taught to not bottom out router bits. The bit can heat up when being used and to have it all the way down it causes it to start moving and then could come completely out. They come out too easy without helping them.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

never bottom out a router bit. you want the collet clamping tight to the shaft, when bottomed out (as steve neul mentions) heat will cause the bit to move out of the collet.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I have been told that the way collets are designed the shank has to be raised slightly for it to be tightened properly, works for me.


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## sunnybob (Sep 3, 2016)

Put a small O ring inside the router cavity. let the bit fall to the O ring and tighten up.
When you release it the O ring will spring slightly back and help removal.
If a bit is tight anyway, a gentle downwards tap on the bit with a piece of wood will allow the bit to bounce off the O ring with no damage.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

In all of my years of using a router I never thought about it either way . Never had a bit come loose nor too difficult to remove.

George


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

i push the bit all the way in, then lift it appx 1/16", tighten. done. 

some collets have the tendency to not release the bit, then you can tap the top of the bit with a piece of wood to loosen the collets grip...

"But I have had an un-bottomed bit shift in the collet" if your bit is coming loose you haven't tightened it adequately, or you need a new collet.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I usually just pull it out around 0d an 1/8 get it tight enough and finish tightening..


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)




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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

@FrankC : Thanks for the youtube. That is the way I have always done it. Back many years ago, when I was learning how to use a vertical mill, the machinist looking over my shoulder told me never to bottom out a bit, but not why. I knew the answer anyway, "If you wanna work in my shop, you;ll do what I say." He was kind of a Marine in that way.

As luck would have it, I was busy routing a mortise in some hickory (really hard stuff) with my 690 this morning, the router that always gets used first, when I could feel the bit start to wobble, you know, that "holy carp, Batman, she's gonna blow" feeling you get when you can see something is going to go horribly wrong if you don't find the power switch soon. So after pushing on both the brush caps I finally found the bump that is the power switch (I hate the switch on this thing) and got it shut off. 
My bit had been set an inch deep in the collet, now it was only 1/2 inch deep and the shank was a bit banged up. This is the second time this has happened, both with this very router though about 10 years apart, and yes, I shank on those cheapy wrenches they provide until my hand turns blue. To me, the culprit is vibration, not heat, but perhaps they go together. I am off to buy a new collet and a good pair of wrenches. 
I like this router, but PC has become another cheap brand, IMO. Short cords and stamped out wrenches both are signs of cutting corners. So while I am out, I think I may look for a new favorite router.


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

Update: I went to my usual supplier of router parts and bought a replacement collet. I thought this would be then end of it all, but I noticed this one had paint where the original had black oxide and my brain registered a warning -- this thing isn't heat treated -- which I ignored. The guy at the shop told me they haven't been able to get PC parts for several years but they do find some of the expendables like collets and brushes in the aftermarket. 
I chucked up a new upcut spiral bit and went to work plowing a 1/4 x 3/8 deep dado, should be easy work even in hickory. Mind you, I put as much torque on that collet as I felt was safe to do and not strip out the shaft; don't want to buy a new armature. I got to about the 10 inch point when I felt the bit chatter. By the time I got the thing shut off I had a 1/2" diameter hole the wobbling bit had dug out. 
So there is a warning in this: Don't trust aftermarket collets. 
And I am through with PC. It's more than a router to me, though. I have several bases for this, one in my router table plus the standard and plunge bases that came with the router. I have several fences and I am particularly fond of that micro adjustable fence with the long arm. And all the other jigs I have made over the years to fit this router. 
Two steps back today. Tomorrow I'll start repairing the damage. Fortunately it is where it won't show unless you are looking for it. 
Thanks to all for the input. We all seem to be in agreement; don't bottom out the bit and tighten it as much as you dare. That is what I thought I knew, now confirmed.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

I wouldn’t blame the router, although I do agree Stanley has ruined several brands most notably BD.

I use the rubber grommets Marc Sommerfeld sells only in my table router where I’m dropping bits in.

Sometimes it’s a good idea to remove the collet, insert the bit and see exactly how much can be exposed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

A big issue with any hand hend fixed based router is ..... turning it ON or OFF without letting go with one of your hands! It can't be done!
A couple of my Porter Cable 690's have "D" handle bases where the switch is in the handle, like most dedicated plunge routers. That's easy to find and operate.
It's a safety issue as well as a convenience factor. If you need to turn it OFF because the bit has come loose ^, you need it OFF instantly.
The Bosch fixed base routers like model 1617 EVS, may be excellent routers, but they have the ON/Off switch on the motor itself, not in the wood knob handles. (for obvious reasons)
For that reason, and being a fan of Milwaukee tools in general, I'd recommend this less expensive "D" handle router:








Milwaukee 1-3/4 Max HP D-Handle Router 5619-20 - The Home Depot


The Milwaukee 5619-20 BodyGripRouter features the industry's first tactile handgrip designed into the base of the router, a fast, accurate linear depth adjustment system, a patented above-the-table depth



www.homedepot.com


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

@DrRobert , yeah, it may not be the router. I will admit it could be me. There really are only those choices, aside from the bit shank maybe being undersized. I'll check that. As I said, I torqued that sucker to the limits of my strength and the length those stamped out wrenches allowed. I can buy better wrenches but 2 wrenches at $30 each put me off.
But at this point I have two collets I don't trust and a collet bore that has been beat to heck because of the bits thrashing around in there. Add to that no reliable source for replacement collets and other parts (PC quit the router biz a few years ago -- didn't know that til yesterday -- Stanley/BD bought & killed them -- what a way to do business). 
Bottom line is I know the 690 to be a good router, but with Parkinson's part of my life now the little power switch under a rubber cover hidden below a plastic shroud is just not going to work for me any more. I can't shut the dang thing off fast enough. Maybe I'll start using a dead man switch on routers. It's a shame to toss a good router, but if I don't trust it ... what other choice is there?

@woodnthings : Thanks for the pointer to D-handles. I actually have an old Makita with a D-handle. I don't use it much because I don't like the way it adjusts but I'll dig it out and see how I like it otherwise. A lot of my biases/faves were decided in the pre-Parkinson's years. Life has changed and things are harder and I want to keep all my fingers so I will give the old Mak another try.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

D handles are good for production work. I haven't touched mine in several years...

Easier to handle going around large tables, etc because of the handle. Better control on flat surfaces..


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## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

I always bottom the bit, then pull it out a little, so it is not bottoming, THEN look to make absolutely certain the collect is not clamping on the flare near the cutter. Clamping on it is a guarantee the bit will loosen under load.


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## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

I use my D-handle more than anything else, absent the need for a trim router, or just firing up the table, over arm or carver.



Rebelwork said:


> D handles are good for production work. I haven't touched mine in several years...
> 
> Easier to handle going around large tables, etc because of the handle. Better control on flat surfaces..


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## Rick Christopherson (Jun 27, 2016)

I usually stay away from these discussions, because...well frankly...they shouldn't exist in the first place.
*Stop Over Thinking It!*

There's absolutely no reason to insert your bits any where near the bottom of the collet. Stop thinking about it and stop worrying about it, and just insert the bit to a comfortable depth, like you do with your drill bits.

They don't get any more grip--the gripping surface stops about 3/4" deep (or less). (pull the collet out and measure how deep the gripping surface is...see picture.)
The last thing that you want to see is your carbide get chipped because the nut or wrench hit it during bit removal.
If the nut separates from the collet, you won't be able to unscrew the nut far enough to remove the bit.
The shank is a hell of a lot stiffer than you're giving it credit. You cannot flex the shank with 1x-diameter or even 2x-diameter protrusion.


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