# Quality of a vintage Great Neck plane?



## horseman308 (May 25, 2014)

My grandfather had a #4 hand plane that was probably never used (he died in the late 60s before my parents met, so I can't ask him). It's the only hand plane I've ever used. I've flattened the sole and chip breaker, and honed the iron with a Japanese water stone to about 8000. It seems to do "okay" on most moderately hard woods like cherry and walnut. But there always seems to be some tearout, no matter which way I orient the grain of the board or skew the plane. Sometimes it's barely noticeable, others it's a real PITA. I'm not a really strong person, but it usually seems to take a lot more strength than I thought it would to get smooth, consistent shavings. My arms can be a little sore the next day. I also noticed a small gouge in my iron last night, so back to the stones I go.

So here's my question: is it really worth continuing to keep working on this plane or get a nice one? I'm about to turn 40 and thought of getting the Cabinet Makers set from Wood River (#6, #4, and, low angle block). Would I be likely to feel a difference in a nicer plane or am I just throwing money away til technique is better?

Yeah, there's a certain mystique on using grandad's tools, and if the Great Neck is a good plane then there's no point in duplicating it, but it's just not as fun to use as i would like and I wonder how much is the tool, and how much is me.

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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Planing can be very hard work. Especially if we don’t do it everyday. I think your arms will get tired regardless of the brand you use. Here is my advice. Since you already own the #4, if you want a new plane, buy a longer one than the #4. This will give you two types of hand planes. 
Every serious woodworker needs at least 3 different sized hand planes. Small, medium and large.


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

There are three adjustments with a hand plane that control thickness of shavings. This can be used to your advantage to reduce tear out. If you have a variety of bench planes, you can adjust them for specific uses, such as using a smoothing plane for smoothing flat surfaces. Tuning up a plane and taking edge shavings is no way to test the effectiveness of a properly set up smoothing plane.

1) sharpening your iron. It’s a critical step, but don’t stop there.

2) the size of the throat opening. The smaller the opening the finer the chips. Jack planes should have wide throats, smoothers small openings, jointers and fore planes, in between

3) closeness of chip breaker to the end of the blade. The closer to the end, the finer the chips it will take. A smoother should be very close, if you get too close the plane won’t cut at all. A jack planes chip breaker should be further away so it can take big cuts. Jointer and fore planes, in between the extremes

Lie-Nielsen says smoothers should be set to take off .001 of an inch, Jointers .003, and jack planes, up to .010

These adjustments can be made with most iron bodied planes. There are certainly other factors that effect quality of cut under different circumstances but require modifications in some way such as sharpening irons for different uses and angle of frog, but these require more experience. The three adjustments above are fundamental to tuning hand planes.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## horseman308 (May 25, 2014)

Thanks for the information. I don't want to be the guy that blames tools for poor work, but I haven't had much experience with hand tools. I just wasn't sure if this was a "budget brand" with a known reputation for problems. 

Sounds like it's me that's the issue, and I'm totally cool with fixing that.

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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

The hand plane is one of the more complex hand tools. There is much to learn through practice with a hand plane. The most common problems is trying to cut too much in one pass. See Terry’s numbers above for shaving thickness. These numbers vary from the thickness of a business card to the thickness of a sheet of toilet paper. 
I like to hold the plane at an angle to make the cut. Always plane with the grain.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

The hand plane is one of the more complex hand tools. There is much to learn through practice with a hand plane. The most common problems is trying to cut too much in one pass. See Terry’s numbers above for shaving thickness. These numbers vary from the thickness of a business card to the thickness of a sheet of toilet paper. 
I like to hold the plane at an angle to make the cut. Always plane with the grain. 

In your first post you said you nicked the blade. What’s nicking the blade? If you are planing clean raw wood there shouldn’t be anything nicking the blade. As you set the plane down, set it on it’s side.


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## horseman308 (May 25, 2014)

Terry and Toolman, thanks for the specifics. I'm not sure how I missed the Lie Nielsen info before, but that's the first solid info I've had on what to expect. I've been taking off WAY too much. I'll go back to the drawing board and see how it goes!

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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

horseman308 said:


> Terry and Toolman, thanks for the specifics. I'm not sure how I missed the Lie Nielsen info before, but that's the first solid info I've had on what to expect. I've been taking off WAY too much. I'll go back to the drawing board and see how it goes!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk




I got the information from a lie-Nielsen workshop during their open house and lobster bake that they hold every summer. If you have the time and can get to Maine its well worth the effort.

Lots of workshops covering all aspects of using hand tools, factory tours where you are encouraged to ask the workers questions, and vendor booths where you get exposed to many innovative tools, techniques and woodworkers.

The Open house is free, food will cost you something.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

horseman308 said:


> ... But there always seems to be some team out, no matter which way I orient the grain of the board or skew the plane. Sometimes it's barely noticeable, others it's a real PITA. I/QUOTE]
> 
> I only scanned your post but think I got the gest of it...
> 
> ...


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

If you have a Rockler or Woodcraft nearby, I'd recommend calling and asking if they ever do classes on hand planes. One of the ones near me does, the other doesn't, so it's going to depend on the specific store.

In my experience, the smoothing plane (roughly #4 and smaller, as numbered by Stanley) is the hardest tool I've tried to master. For most other tools I've tried (chisels, saws, beading planes, even combination planes) it's been possible to watch a few videos, and get acceptable results after an hour or so of practice. Not fantastic, and with a lot of room for improvement, but acceptable. After six years with a smoothing plane, I still have to stop and consider what's happening for a while before I can fix a problem. There are three key pieces, in my experience:

1) Sharpening. My smoothing plane shows ill effects from losing its edge long before, say, my chisels, and it's much more sensitive to how I shape the corners.

2) Placement of the chip breaker. One of my smoothing planes only works reliably if there's about 1/64" between the edge of the iron and the edge of the chip breaker. The other is much less finicky. I'll probably never know why, but now that I know it's true they both work pretty reliably. Also, the leading edge of the chip breaker needs to be completely flush with the surface of the iron.

3) Cutting depth. If you try to remove too much stock, you get tearout. If you try to remove too little, everything takes forever. Different woods allow different depths of cut, and you'll need to experiment to find out which allows what.

In any case, don't despair... once you learn it, it'll be fantastic.


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