# Aged/seasoned (old) lumber



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I may be all wet here, so if you know different please explain it to me. I have this discussion frequently being in hardwood country. Had it twice this week alone, hence the post. Some guy will find a little stash of lumber that his dad/uncle/granddad...had milled 20-30 years ago, it was forgotten about and is now part of an estate or something. They drag it by here or want me to come look at it to estimate it's value.

We never seem to be in agreement. I look the wood over (walnut was the flavor this week on both accounts, one I visually inspected some of it the other was just a verbal thing in my driveway) Grade it and tell the person what I get for air dried wood similar...never satisfies them :no:. "Yea but this has seasoned for 25 years !" Ok, 4/4 is going to get as dry on stickers as it will ever get in 1 year here, simple as that. So _24_ years ago it was "dry" it has just been laying around since then gathering dust (and quite possibly bugs).

If that does or does not sink in with them the discussion continues. "But this is old wood, that is worth more" Well from looking at the endgrain and arched growth rings on that little 8" board I can tell it came from a small tree. So in reality a 60 year old tree cut 25 years ago is not as "old" as one of my 12" boards cut from a 100 year old tree last year :huh:.

I guess there is a mystique factor maybe of being able to say you built this project from wood that was seasoned in a barn for 25 years. But for all practical purposes once you run it through the planer and knock off that 25 year old dust (and 1/2 the time animal/bird droppings) It ain't a bit different than wood sawn 2 years ago.

What am I missing ? Explain it to me.


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## dirtclod (May 7, 2008)

There are two circumstances where I could see lumber that old being of a higher value:
1- Very old wood may have come from rare specimens in an old-growth forest. The rings could be tighter. On many species this is considered a plus.

 
2- Certain woods like walnut and cherry darken with age. Again a sought-after character.
Otherwise, I'm with you.


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## John in Tennessee (Jun 11, 2008)

I guess it's perceived value. Kind of like my dad left a collection of fine shotguns. The book says they are worth $50,000. ^hats correct. HOWEVER You have to find someone that will pay that.
BTW my father in law has a stash in his garage.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

I agree Daren with one exception. I had a neighbor give me about 500 bdft of some 30 year old lumber. I was grateful as it was a little bit of everything, Oak, Maple, Poplar, and Ash. I discovered though that the barn it had been stored in for 30 years had moisture in it and all the Maple and Poplar (aprox, 300bdft) is now Spalted with wormholes. I planed a piece of poplar and it is some of the prettiest wood I have ever scene. So yes the 30 years added value to the wood. Something one might not see unless they have a trained eye. I didn't know what I had till I ran it through the planer, then I could see it in the rough wood. Here is a Humidor I built for my father for his B-day, I have pics of it finished and it looks fantastic. The Spalting is absolutly gorgeous.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Yea dirtclod I take those 2 things into consideration when I am grading the wood. But the cherry for example being rough saw, and all this old stuff is circle milled, like I said once it's through the planer the patina is gone and it is no different than 2 year old wood. Even with fresh sawn I look at the ring tightness as a grading factor. You and I can tell if a tree is a slow or fast grower. I have sawn fast and slow growth specimens, oak and walnut in particular, that were way different. I get some of these yard trees that shoot up like weeds and they have 1/2 the rings sometimes as the ones I get from the rural road commissioner/farmers/developers/etc. from virgin timber.


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## drcollins804 (Jan 11, 2008)

Daren said:


> "But this is old wood, that is worth more"
> 
> What am I missing ? Explain it to me.


Daren
The whole aura is that this is antique wood. :blink:If it had been used when it was first dry then whatever was built would now be an antique so the wood has to be antique. If you make something now out of it it instantly becomes antique.:laughing::laughing:
BTW if you look at the wood in my old gallery. most of it was milled 25 to 50 years ago so if anyone is interested in purchasing at an antique price I'm all ears.:thumbsup:
I have bought wood from some of these estates and sometimes it has to sit for a year or two before the realize that it is just wood. Not priceless heirloom's.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

That is pretty wood Nate...but I do that (spalt) in 18+/- months _before_ I mill the lumber. A circumstance like you are talking about is different than what I am talking about. Your lumber did actually have an added value. The lumber I am talking about is just old, not changed in any way.


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## Oscar (Jun 7, 2008)

In this day and age it's "appearance over substance"! So-o many folks immediately see something (called) antique as having greater value because we all know that things made 30+ years ago are always better than their contemporary equivalent! However, I have noticed that Hardwood I take out of barns here in Iowa is harder than things I buy in the store or mill on my own. If I drive a nail in a piece of Oak that's of recent production I split the board, if I try to drive it into something i've got out of a barn that was built in 1875 I get frustrated cause I bend everything I try to drive!! I've busted countless bits drilling and once I get a hole I still end up bending some nails (probably related to my technique or lack thereof.) I always heard that the stuff thats aged forever is harder to work with and it's always seemed that way to me. I've also noticed that with at least Red Oak the old boards seem to darken considerably as compared to recently cured wood.

On the subject of antique heres a picture of a 1930 Parks HD 12"x4" planner. It's 4 HP 220V 3 knife head beast, that walks all over anything i've seen in all but the biggest production shops. It's in excellent shape with 3 sets of new or like new blades, I bought it for $100 along with 500 bd ft of Red Oak 1x6 that came out of a barn in NW IA which was built in 1880, the lumber cost me another $250 and I had to force the guy to take more than the $175 he wanted for Oak. Wish I found more deals like that!!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Nate, your wood did not spalt in the barn. Once wood is cut and stickered the fungus that shows up as "spalt" cannot live without mositure and warm temperatures. Remove either one (along with some other factors we don't need to discuss for this) and it cannot continue to spalt. Even though as you say the barn had moisture it is highly doubtful it was enough to keep growing the fungus, *unless* it was dead stacked and never got dry. But then, you'd get rot and/or severe punkiness. I guess it is possible for it to have continued spalting a little but my guess would be it had mostly already occured before it got cut and stacked. 

Daren, remind the peeps that keep using the term "season" and "seasoned" and "seasoning" that those terms are applicable to the culinary field or the time of year. Wood dries or get wet again but it don't ever season. Now, you can season "with" wood and that is always a good idea when you fire up the grill or smoker. :icon_smile:

I know that you know this and just don't have the patience normally to try and educate everyone about everything - me niether - but on this point you bring up it's critical to make them understand that the word "seasoned" gives the wood a mystique it should not have. the stuff just gets dryer until it hits EMC as you pointed out. That's it. End of story.


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

The fact is people outside wood working or Logging don't speak the same language as we do. The people I run into more or on the other end of the scale. I see folks throwing away good lumber because they think it's old, and it isn't any good. I took down a barn in my hood that was built in 1940 out of cypress. Well the tree was cut in 1910 to 1912 from the area and layed on the bottom of the river until 1936 when it was pulled up and sawed into lumber. In 1940 they built the barn. In 2004 I took it apart and brought it home. It was a full pickup truck load. They guy said it wasn't anygood. HA yea ok, keep thinking that. I know my cypress is old. It is 1 x 10 and 12s any were from 9 feet to 12 feet. I has some plained down and made a repair on a sailboat for a friend. It looks like it was cut last week.


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

drcollins804 said:


> Daren
> The whole aura is that this is antique wood. :blink:If it had been used when it was first dry then whatever was built would now be an antique so the wood has to be antique. If you make something now out of it it instantly becomes antique.:laughing::laughing:



Ok drcollins so let me get this right. If I make a baby with a realy old lady, the child will be born an antique.:blink::blink: I am so comfused.


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## drcollins804 (Jan 11, 2008)

Handyman said:


> Ok drcollins so let me get this right. If I make a baby with a realy old lady, the child will be born an antique.:blink::blink: I am so comfused.


:laughing::laughing:The way some of these people think that would stand to reason. If you have seen the hospital bill for a recent birth you will think that they priced it as an antique anyway.:laughing::laughing: I think that it is just good usable wood.

Oscar
I have the lumber out of two old barns stored in one of my sheds and find regular uses for it. Have spent many nails trying to use old Red Oak for normal uses. It does seem to get harder as it dries. Have broken numerous drill bits and screws trying to use it. 
David


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## Juniperlampguy (Nov 11, 2007)

I agree with you Daren,

Once wood has dried it's not going to get any drier unless it's moved to a dryer climate. In fact moisture levels will vary forever depending on the weather. (Humidity changes)

But I guess wood, like anything else is worth what you can get for it. If you can make someone believe that a batch of average 30 year old lumber is something special, and they are willing to pay the higher price, then thats what it's worth.


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## Terry Beeson (May 29, 2008)

Handyman said:


> Ok drcollins so let me get this right. If I make a baby with a realy old lady, the child will be born an antique.:blink::blink: I am so comfused.


:huh: You ol' perv, you.... :lol:


One of the things people may be confused about is the "value" that has been placed on old barnwood. I remember a few years ago that you could get more for a board foot of old barnwood than you could for about any kind of wood. It was chic to have it in your home.

I also remember a carpenter friend of mine who had a client who wanted a room panelled with barn wood from an old horse barn they tore down on the "farm" they had purchased (I think it was 3 acres... LOL) and he told them they really didn't want that in the house. She insisted and he installed it and a few months later, when the horse manure and urine began to leech out, they called him complaining. :bangin:

You're spot on in my opinion, Daren.


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## JP Sinclair (Nov 13, 2006)

I've had similar conversations Daren. Unless it's sinker wood from the depths of the great lakes or some chestnut carrying beams in an old barn, 30 year old lumber is just that. In fact, around here, it's moisture is going to stall out at around 12 percent and still have to go into the kiln!.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

JP Sinclair said:


> In fact, around here, it's moisture is going to stall out at around 12 percent and still have to go into the kiln!.


Same here, air dried 1 year or 20 years...11-12 %. The exception would be stored in the attic or something in high heat/low humidity, but laying in an out building even after 20 years it will not be as dry as I can get it in 20 days in the kiln (7% or below)


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

I think old wood is like antiques. An antique is something old someone wants because it is old. If someone does not care about the age it is just plain old. Only the really old stuff could be worth extra, but not becasue of age. I ran across a few pine and white oak boards a while back that were leftovers milled over 100 years ago when a barn was put up on a ranch in northeast Texas. It was like working with stone, but the figure from those tight rings was great. Old wood on craigslist is the reason my domestic hardwood lumber stash averages .40-.50 per bdft, and quite a bit of it has been curly too.


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## Shamus (Aug 22, 2008)

Hello All!

Really interesting read for a new guy.

I do restoration on furniture and old homes around NE Ohio and western PA. Winter months I build a few pieces based upon sketch's I've made on restore jobs I've done. Keeps the lil' woman happy. 

It tickles me to hear customers talk about their antiques. For the record, over 100 yrs = antique, over 50 = collectable. 
Personally, I'm just a bit beyond "collectable". :smile: 

The, "It's really an old antique, my grandad bought it in 1948, tickles me. I guess they are adding in the age of the tree too.

I've run into the occasional spalted wood stacked in barns and out buildings that was available for cheap. Wasn't sure what I was looking at until now. I'm going to make a few calls to some previous customers and see if they still have that "antique" wood laying around. I may just get lucky.

Thanks for the education.

Richard


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