# Taking the spray plunge



## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

First time poster looking for recomendations on a spray systems.

After lurking for many months, I've decided to take the plunge into the world of spray systems, and was wondering if anyone had reccomendations for type.. (ie turbine or compressor system) in the lower end/ mid price range (3-4 hundred $) that I can get my feet wet with. The purchase is for weekend warrior small and med project applications so ease of use/maintenance is key.

Thanks for any advice


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Do you already have a compressor? And if so how many CFM at 90 psi?


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Hello Rick, Thanks for the reply.

Well, yes and no, I have an older floor standing compressor (not portable) in my garage that says 10.3 cfm @ 90 psi, but it doesnt have air filter/dryer and is a signifigant distance from the shop where I work on my projects and plan to spray.. 

I was hoping to get a smaller self contained unit for the workshop
something like this.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...01&sid=I0084400010000100600&aff=Y&origin=prod

or this

http://www.toolsusa.com/asp/item_detail.asp?T1=PBE 9MS CAHV2002&trackcode=GoogleBase

But i really dont have the knowledge base yet to understand the differences between 2 stage/4 stage etc and how these differences will impact the performance. Or if I can really purchase what I think i need in the price range I am looking.

My intent is to take the next step foward from just brush/wipe finishes using oil based stains and brushed poly coats.
I'm just now opening my eyes to the tinted dyes etc and Im trying to get my mind around washcoats and the multicoat approaches required to acheiving professionel looking finishes. (or at least finishes that dont look DIY)

My goal is to be able to improve my finish results on the troublesome woods like maple and popular, white wood etc.. and tinted topcoats seem to be one of the keys to accomplishing this.

Thanks again 

Brad


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

The compressor in you garage sounds perfect. You can add filters cheaper than buying a new compressor. Can you either move it or connect with your workshop using an underground pipe?

If you can use your existing compressor this is a decent start up spray gun: http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/FinishlineIIIKIT.htm

Also the Devillbiss DeKups or 3M PPS system is real nice, they let you spray with your gravity gun even upside down without leaking and make clean up much easier. 

If you would like to buy the top of the line and price is no object then I would recommend Sata: http://www.sata.com/index.php?id=1110&L=1


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

KnkKnk said:


> First time poster looking for recomendations on a spray systems...........The purchase is for weekend warrior small and med project applications so ease of use/maintenance is key.


I think spraying is the perfect solution for the weekend warrior especially if you can spray lacquer. You can apply 2 or 3 coats, light sand between coats if necessary and completely clean-up and be done with finishing in less than an hour. How much better can it get than that? Oh, I also spray my wood turnings with lacquer. 
Spraying will add a whole new dimension to your woodworking and is not difficult to master. With someone to actually show you how to do it, an hour is all it should take to do good work on relatively easy projects such as tables, cabinets, and anything else with flat surfaces. Without assistance or instructions it shouldnt take much more time than that. The mere fact that you think you are ready for spray equipment tells me that you wont have any problems with it. 
I hope your next post is to tell us what you bought.
BTW, I hope this aint a KnkKnk joke. But if it is..."who dere?"


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Rick Mosher said:


> The compressor in you garage sounds perfect. You can add filters cheaper than buying a new compressor. Can you either move it or connect with your workshop using an underground pipe?


Ok, So based on the sprayer recomendations, I have looked at moving my compressor to my shop area. I'll get the 220 ran for the new compressor location and barring any additional snow this week, I should be able to relocate the compressor next weekend.



Rick Mosher said:


> If you can use your existing compressor this is a decent start up spray gun: http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/FinishlineIIIKIT.htm
> 
> Also the Devillbiss DeKups or 3M PPS system is real nice, they let you spray with your gravity gun even upside down without leaking and make clean up much easier.
> 
> If you would like to buy the top of the line and price is no object then I would recommend Sata: http://www.sata.com/index.php?id=1110&L=1


Well money is always an object as my grocery bill seems to increase according to the height of my 2 pre teen boys and they dont appear to be slowing in the growth category:huh:

I looked at both the Devill and 3m Systems, I like the concept and of the disposal/storage cups they both appear that they would be perfect for small/med jobs. 

Just out of couriousity, what is the down side to the self contained systems that i was looking at earlier such as the turbine systems?

Thanks again Rick for your help.

Brad


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Tony B said:


> With someone to actually show you how to do it, an hour is all it should take to do good work on relatively easy projects such as tables, cabinets, and anything else with flat surfaces. Without assistance or instructions it shouldnt take much more time than that.


Unfortunately, I really dont know anyone with the same hobby that I can spend any time with and learn, so this will be a self taught endeavour. The more I read the forums, the more complex everything becomes..viscosity.. tip size etc... so I am starting to see that sprayer selection is the least of the challenges that await me.



Tony B said:


> The mere fact that you think you are ready for spray equipment tells me that you wont have any problems with it.
> I hope your next post is to tell us what you bought.
> BTW, I hope this aint a KnkKnk joke. But if it is..."who dere?"


No, Not a Joke yet.. i think the jokes will start when i get the sprayer in my hands.:blink:

I will use this thread as my project thread, and start posting pictures this week of my current project, its somewhat unique and not your standard end table / bookcase. Maybe some of the members will get a kick out of it, and I think everyone will see why I feel "Taking the Spray Plunge" was my only option.

Thanks for your feedback Tony, I sincerely appreciate the encouragement.

Brad


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Just a suggestion. You could leave the compressor right where it is and just run a long air hose. It would help to have moisture drains along the way and at the end. Use an on the gun ball filter. Having a long airline will definitely give you cool air.


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Hello Cabinetman,

I had considered that, or running an underground pipe, as Rick had suggested, but I need to cross a driveway. The more I thought about relocating the compressor the more I'm sure I would get more use out of it if its in my shop.

Pardon my ignorance guys, but I've only used a compressor to air up pool floaties and tires in the past and Im now looking at getting the componants needed for the spray set up. So some of my questions may seem elementary.

My current compressor is a 5HP floor standing, it does not have a regulator, only a 120PSI shutoff, and as mentioned it says 10.3 cfm at 90PSI.

Here is my list as of now, and again i welcome any comments or suggestions.

Respirator.

Spray Gun Starter Kit.. Considering this one.the devillebliss Decup.
http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/FinishlineIIIKIT.htm
If I understand correctly i can use this one with the Decup system, I like the idea of the disposalcups.
Questions:
Is 9OZ an appropiate size for weekend use etc..or is the 24oz more appropiate?
Do most spray guns use 1/2 npt fittings, or do I need adaptors for the guns?

Digital regulator

AIR Dryer: Again not sure if I need 1/2 npt or 3/8 or ?, or is this driven by the cfm required for spraying?
This one also from Devilledebliss
http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/daircontl.aspx

Strainers

I'm not sure what Im missing to get setup correctly...

again i welcome any comments or suggestions.

Brad


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

1. The DeKups or the 3M PPS will work with that gun, you will need an adapter. It may come with the DeKups start up kit ( I believe the DeKups is cheaper for the liners) 

2. Once you have the adapter and the rigid plastic cup all you need to buy are liners. So I bought both sizes. ( I use the 24 oz way more often and you don't have to fill it all the way up.)

3. I would just wait until I got the units and then go to HD and buy whatever adapters and fittings you need.

There is nothing wrong with the turbine unit, it just seems if you already have a good compressor the gravity cup makes more sense to me. If you get more involved you could also get a pressure pot later which would allow you spray much bigger projects with what you have.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

KnkKnk said:


> .........No, Not a Joke yet.. i think the jokes will start when i get the sprayer in my hands.:blink: Brad


I think you will find spraying much easier than you think. The instuction manual that comes with the gun will tell you how to set up the gun for proper spraying from a mechanical perspective and will also give a paragraph or two on spraying techniques. That is how I learned. Like anything else you learn, dont be scared of it, just do it. If you have any problems, post them here and there will be lots of help for you.


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## Jim Tank (Apr 28, 2009)

I like the idea of a cheap used underpowered portable compressor that you can use for other things, and an inexpensive gravity feed gun from an auto or discount on line place. you can get three guns for $110, they have three diffo tips, and come with an inline regulator. After learning all sorts of things like viscosity, different materials to spray, amazing results with inexpensive equiptment, then you will be able to make a much better decision on what kind of system to finally get. Also, when those two youngsters finish spraying their science project and forget to clean out the spray guns, you won't go ballistic over an expensive tool being left on the garage floor and all mucked up. After thirty years of this and employees, I'm a firm believer in starting out small & cheap, then growing into the pro stuff. And then you always have something you don't mind loaning out to some upstart.


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Jim... Solid advice I'm sure.. I already have children issues with simple things like hammers and screwdrivers.. somehow they just seem to walk off and end up in the driveway/yard and "Nobody" has touched them. Something I am slowly learning to live with as they get older.

Thanks again for everyones feedback, here is the latest update:
-Got the compressor moved to the shop over the weekend
(need to change the plug on the 220 outlet)
-Ordered the DevilBiss Finishline 3.
-Also purchased the adaptor for the Dekups system and purchased the 9 & 24 oz starter Dekup kits.
-Ordered the DevilBiss filter and dryer.

All should arrive tomorrow or thurs, and I should have a functioning spray system by the weekend. (not including an experienced operator:blink

Now getting ahead of myself as I usually do.. I drove to the rockler store and purchased several items that I think I will need for the upcoming project.

Picked up the: 
Blonde, Garnet, and Orange Dewaxed Shellac flakes and several flavors of Transtint dies.

As mentioned earlier I will post pictures of my Project soon, to hopefully get some specific reccomendations, but in general my project is a large assembly with decrative pieces (think Corbels) of white wood (or rubberwood) I really cant identify the type but they are from china, and definately not a hardwood or even maple or popular. 

I will be trying to acheive a darker finish such as a mahogany/red mahogany and attempting to get the soft wood to match the oak ply and hardwood used in the rest of the assembly.

I think it will be eaiser to match the oak to the white wood then visa versa. So my current thinking is to use the cut Shellac as a wash coat and tint the finish on the White woods. One problem is that I dont have any the "actual" scraps available for the white wood/rubber wood that I will be able to test on. So Ill probably pick up some random white wood to try the gun out with it initially. I also have plenty of other Oak type scraps I'll be able to use to develop a familiarity with the spray gun.

I realize this is a somewhat vauge description of the issue but I'm looking for generalized reccomedations so I can gather supplies in advance. 

Any input is much appreciated.... I will get project pictures posted by the weekend.

Thanks again guys.

Brad


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Ok.. Here are a few shots of my project and the delima I face..

My project is part of a DIY home theater Im building in my basement.I have completed most of the Proscenium. The eliptical casing was built out of oak ply, and the columns are ply, Routered S4S oak and oak trim. 

The assembly is 16' wide and all the componants are just set in place right now. The major pcs all come apart for finishing. Still lots of work to do for trimming out the ellipse and finishing the keystone on the ellipse, but here is where Im at now.










The real challenge for me is how to go about finishing the Lions on the side.. they are some type of white wood/ asian rubberwood.. not really sure. but i can tell they will be difficult for me to finish









As mentioned previously, I dont have any samples of the woods from the lions I can practice on, but i can pick up some scrap generic white wood to test a method.

From the title of the thread and previous posts, its evident that I've never used a sprayer for finish, and had it not been for the lions I probably would have gone the brush or wipe route again. But hey.. Im not afraid of a challenge, and look foward to improving my finsihes on all projects.. I just dont want to muck up what I've done so far on this one.

Ill be shooting for a darker, red mahogany type of finish, I figure the lions will need tinted wash coats and probably tinted top coats to have any chance of a decent finish and I realize they will probably end up with more of a solid color finish, just my guess based on limited finishing experience .

I picked up unwaxed shellac and several flavors of transtint dyes from Rockler

So my current thinking (based on reading these forums) is to use the cut Shellac and the dyes as a wash coat and probably tint the finish/top coat on the lions (no idea what type of top coat to look at) I feel if I can acheive a decent result on the lions the oak will be eaiser to match..

My sprayer arrived earlier this week, and Ill be able to start playing around on scraps soon.. 

Lots of questions are rolling around my head, Basically I've never used the dyes before either so I'm at sort of a loss of where to start.. how are the dyes measure out? count the drops? weight? should i be looking at water based or solvent based finishes....after the wash coats. ( if the tinted schellac wash coat is reccomended) :blink:

The closer i get the more my head spins...

Any and all advice to get me started down the right path would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Brad


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## madshirsa (Dec 18, 2009)

I accept with information:-Got the compressor moved to the shop over the weekend
(need to change the plug on the 220 outlet)
-Ordered the DevilBiss Finishline 3.
-Also purchased the adaptor for the Dekups system and purchased the 9 & 24 oz starter Dekup kits.
-Ordered the DevilBiss filter and dryer.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Your lions look like a urethane resin made from a mold to me. Is that what they are? If so you can make them look like wood but you will have to do a faux finish on them. The first picture is a step sample showing the process. First step is a base color of paint, then a gilsonite glaze followed up with some tinted lacquer toner and then a topcoat. The second picture is for some cabinets I finished at Lake Tahoe. Everything carved is made out of urethane resin and faux painted to match the cherry solid wood. (Same process as the step sample just different base colors) 
By the way, your theatre is spectacular! Make sure to do a lot of samples to assure yourself of a great finish too.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Here is a picture of a solid wood lion from that same house. They bought 2 of them and used them on each side of their fireplace.


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Rick, I took a close up picture of the lion so you could see it better. 
They are 48" high.








definately a Solid natural wood product, similar to what i call white wood, but possibly even softer. 

I'm Sure you've probably heard of a company called Enkeboll. Thats where I originally saw the lions, theirs were a beautiful solid Oak, but i couldnt afford theirs, then I found these knock offs at a fraction of the price, and even that was tough swallow. (i know you get what you pay for)

These came out of China, it appears to me that they were manufactured on a CNC then some hand work was done with a razor in some areas to clean it up and add some definition. Looks like the CNC blank was assembled from 3 smaller laminated blocks, the head the middle and the feet. you can see the seam for the top block right about the base of the head in the picture. I made a refrence to "rubberwood" because I know alot of wood products from asia are now produced from the same trees they get latex from.

And your spot on, the intended application for this product was as mantel legs. When i received them I cut off the capitol that was originally attached to them and placed them in the columns I built.

I'd be tickled pink if I could a acheive a similar finish as you have on the lions in your pic.

Would you still recommend a solid color base and glazing after seeing this?

Thanks again
Brad


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi Knkknk

Just a word of caution before you start spraying. Make sure you are adequately protected from breathing the fumes. They are very toxic. A full face mask with an air supplied respirator would be ideal.

That is a very impressive looking project you have on the go.

Gerry


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Without actually seeing the "wood" of the lions it is difficult to recommend a finish schedule. However you have some transtint dye so I would start with that. Spray on a thinned very wet coat of the transtint dye and wipe off excess with a rag (wear rubber gloves) I would shoot for 50 - 70% of the final color I am after. 

Now you spray your wash coat of shellac. I like to use gilsonite as a glaze in almost all of my work but in the S64 Sherwin Williams stains it is pretty pricey. ($50 gal) The way around that is to pick up a gal of non-fibrated roofing asphalt (solvent type not water based) and you can thin it with mineral spirits and make your own transparent glaze. Scuff sand your wash coatwith a red scotch brite pad and wipe on the gilsonite or asphltum glaze wet making sure to get into all of the carved areas. Wipe off excess and when dry spray another wash coat of shellac. 

I don't use transtint dyes myself but I believe they can be added to the shellac wash coat to make a toner. Add some of the red mahogany dye to your wash coat and adjust your fan down to a circle, stay farther away (2 - 2 1/2' ) and fog on an even coat of color. GO SLOWLY, you can always add more color the trick is to get it on as evenly as possible. This is called shading and done properly it will give you the depth you are looking for. A good way to practice shading is to cut a 2 foot square of white melamine and try to make it an even color without any streaks just by shading. When you can do that you are ready for anything. 

You should be very close to the final color now. For some final detailing you could use some artists oil colors in tubes, I use VanDyke brown and black ( 3 parts VDB : 1 part black) Thin with mineral spirits and brush into all of the deep crevices in the carving. Do a small section at a time and wipe clean all raised surfaces leaving the dark glaze in the recessed areas. This will really pop the carving more. Wash coat again to seal the glaze and then you are ready for whatever top coat you are going to use (you could also just stick with the shellac.) Whatever you do, practice on scrap pieces first and make sure you are happy before starting.


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

*Update on progress*: Compressor, air filter dryer all in place and functioning, Im in the process of building a 6x12 quasi spray booth in my shop to attempt to protect the shop/tools etc from overspray.



*Gerry*.. Thank you, I plan on using a full face mask and respirator, Not sure about the setup for the air supply at this time.

I did have an opprotunity through a mutual friend of a friend to play around with some spray equip at a body shop. It was a good experience for me, I got a decent run down for the equip and I was able to see first hand things like the difference between dry coat, wet coat etc.. what he called dry coat/fogging, i believe the same as what is referred to as shading on this forum.

I learned 2 things.. (1) I need more practice with the spray guns, and (2) as you said the fumes can be toxic.



*Rick M.*.. Thanks tons for the run down. I cant tell you how much its appreciated.

I spent the last week studying the various steps of the process you've laid out, and with additional reading, I can actually say I have a basic understanding
for the purpose of each of the step and how each step contributes to the overall finish.

I do have a question that I hope doesnt make me seem too dense.

Regarding the initial base coat of dye and the "50-70%" of the final color Im shooting for.

Is this 50-70% of the "Saturation" of the finish color? Ie use the final color of what I want the piece to look like but only take it 1/2 way. 
Or 
is this 50-70% of the "hue" ie.. Start with a base coat somewhere in the orange range to end up with the Mahogony.

I hope i used the right terms and that the question makes sense..

On a side note, I stood in front of the non-fibrated roofing asphalt for 10 min before I decided I wasnt going to be able to bring myself to put it on my project, Something about the words "roofing asphalt" scared me in the end.:huh: I went to SW(fortunately I have one of the pro outlets about 15min from my house) for the S64 to use as a glaze, they didnt stock it, but he said he would have it for me first of next week.

Regarding the finish coat.. If i wanted more of a matte finish and not too, too glossy (I want to somewhat minimize reflections from the proscenium around the screen, but still want finish depth) would you recommend schellac or laquer.

Happy Holidays and I Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.

Brad


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

The gilsonite and oil paint glazing will alter the overall color. So the dye will have to be a little lighter than you want it and a little redder than the final color (gilsonite has a greenish cast which takes out a little red) The only way to figure it out is to make some samples. If you want a lower sheen I would go with the lacquer with around a 20 degree sheen or you can rub out the shellac ( a lot of work on a big area)

The shading also effects the overall color. If the color is a little too red after the staining and glazing add a little green to your shading, if it isn't red enough add some red to the shading, yellow, orange etc. The trick to shading is a little goes a LONG way. Don't try and get most of your color this way it is just meant as an adjustment to get the final color you want.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

KnkKnk said:


> *Update on progress*: Compressor, air filter dryer all in place and functioning, Im in the process of building a 6x12 quasi spray booth in my shop to attempt to protect the shop/tools etc from overspray.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hope you also had a Merry Christmas.

Gerry


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

*Rick M.* 

I got it, it makes sense (Some of this is actually sinking in) and I have a much better understanding of the "shading" now. 

I also followed a link you posted in another thread to shellac.net that had a great article on color theory and mixing, that helped me to understand the interaction.

*Gerry K.* 

Thanks for the respirator info.. I'll definately look into this.

I'm also building an exhaust / filter system to use with the spray booth.

Regarding the varathane... Ill be able to test it on my samples, I already have the better part of a gallon of satin left over from my stairs.

(and i know this is gonna sound funny) but I really want to try the lacquer for no other good reason then I have never used it before. I'm excited about developing new finishing options that were not available to me without the sprayer. 


I'll finish my spray booth this week and hopefully begin the sample process very soon.

Thanks again guys

Brad


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

*Sanity Check*

Hello All,

First I want to thank everyone for the excellant advice I have received so far. and the help in getting me started towards improving my finishing skills.

Well I'm finally ready to spray.. compressor moved, new power ran, inline filter/dryer hooked up, Devilbliss gun and decups system, and all supplies are in hand. 

The last piece Im missing is the respirator which should arrive this week.

I also built a light weight spray booth and suspended it from the ceiling to protect the shop from overspray etc..
(i have a few more places in the lid to seal before its completed)
I installed a couple of lights and a box fan with filter to push in fresh air. The curtains drop and I'll be able to acheive a good seal in the booth.











I also scabbed together an exhasut system to pull from the bottom of the booth (shown without the lid) that will allow me to exhaust outside. (the inline pulls about 300 CFM) and actually seems to draw quite well.











The solvents I planned on using, denatured alcohol, for my dye (so i dont raise the grain on the lions) and to mix my schellac for the wash coats/shading, and possibly lacquer thinner as the solvent for my top coat. 

I plan on using the typical safety items, respirator, face mask, gloves, long sleeves, no exposed skin.. etc.. 

Now for the safety sanity check.. (I dont want to end up on Darwins Award List) 

I'm not looking for a stamp of approval from anyone on my setup.. but if anyone sees any glaring safety problems i would like to hear them.

What precautions does "Real world" typical hobbyist that sprays DA take with regards to vapor concentrations and exhaust ?

I would also appreciate anyone with experience spraying these solvents to chime in on what type of enviornment they currently spray in.. and what precautions you take regarding fresh air, exhaust fumes etc..

Maybe my thinking is incorrect here but can I simply calculate the amount/volume of solvent that i will spray at any one time.. ie 1 pint and the volume of the spray booth ie. 576 cu ft to determine if I am below the ~1-2% lower flammable limit of the DA.. Does it work this way?

I hope that I'm overthinking this as usual but the voice in my head tells me to get advice.. so any and all comments are appreciated..



Brad


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

*That took longer than I thought it would!!!!*

Well after creating one of the largest most colorful practice/Scrap piles east of the Mississippi, I finally went went a very simple finishing schedule for my project.

My main goal was to come up with a schedule that would provide a consistant look across a variety of woods, but yet be simple enough that I could replicate quickly..

for those that remember the lions, they were machined from a low quality machined white/soft type of wood and I had serious concerns about being able to finish them to an acceptable standard.
I ended up with a "Very Red" finish which I believe will work great for the type of old movie house look Im shooting for in the theater room.

Heres what the columns for my proscenium ended up looking like:
(I still need to rub out the final coat)

















































I played around with numerous combinations of gel stains, gilsonite, vinyl sealer, dyes.. etc... etc...

In the end I decided on a very simple approach/schedule:
1st.... Transtint dye
2nd... Dewaxed schellac
3rd... touch up Glue joints bad spots in wood etc and with gel stain
4th-6th.. Shading with transtint and dewaxed schellac
7th.. Precat laquer

I'm not sure I ever want to try to finish carving type pieces of this size again.. the scuffing/sanding/rubbing between coats became monotunous...

The shading provided an interesting effect, when viewed at angles it makes the finish appear darker than straight on.. this kinda helped eliminate the need for the glazing step and still provided some highlighting.

I wanted to thank Everyone for their suggestions.. and a special thanks to Rick M for answering my multitude of questions helping to get me started.

If anyone is interested I will keep posting progress of my room as I go.

Thanks Again to the forum community..

Brad


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## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

looking forward to seeing more pix.

you have done an excellent job, especially for your 'first' spray project. keep it up.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Great lookin finish! :thumbsup:

All your research really paid off! :yes:


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks Guys.. I'll post more pictures as the room progresses. But I gotta warn ya.. I work at a snails pace.:blink:

I do have another question.

The woodwork will be decorative only. ie.. crown, wainscot etc..
No wear pieces like table tops, desk or such and None of these pieces will ever get hit with any daylight

If I am toning with schellac.. is there really a need for the precat laquer for a finish coat? 

Thanks
Brad


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Only if you have to match the sheen. There is nothing wrong with using shellac as a finish on interior wood work. It is durable and very easy to repair. Just make sure you apply a clear coat over your shading.


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## Eusibius2 (Jan 6, 2010)

Brad - that looks great! Love the movie style look to a viewing room. Looks so much more impressive than 8-10 theater seats facing a boring wall with a great screen. You give the place ambiance!


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## ash123 (Mar 14, 2010)

My first gun was a Binks Model 7 with a Sharp no drip cup. I've worn out several over the years and I still use the same set up. My first airless was a Graco 333. Then I used the 333 and a Monarch, then two 333's and the Monarch, then three Presidents with heaters. Now in my little shop I have a Graco ST. Mostly now I use the Model 7. I bought a couple low pressure high volume guns. I didn't like them, gave em away.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

KnkKnk said:


> Hello Cabinetman,
> 
> I had considered that, or running an underground pipe, as Rick had suggested, but I need to cross a driveway. The more I thought about relocating the compressor the more I'm sure I would get more use out of it if its in my shop.
> 
> ...


I have been sprying lacquer for a couple yrs Here in fla. You have to watch the humidty It it is high the fihish will turn white But the next coat will clean that up I spray a sanding sealer the first sand than first coat than sand again Two coat's is all that i apply Depends on what your item is I us M.L.Cambpell lacquer and sanding sealer Don't use cheep stuff That is what you will get as far as a finish Make sure the nozel is for lacquer I spray at 30lbs of air That is enough Get filters that go at the comp. and also at the gun That is the way mine is and works great My fittings are 3/8" I belive 9oz should be enough If you need more just get more No need of having a big unit on top on the gun I mix my lacquer with 10 percent thinner Works for me Got to go hope's this helps good luck


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## Rich Johnson (Jan 19, 2010)

KnkKnk...would love to see that setup you have on your garage ceiling deployed. It looks like a drop down spray booth for a two car garage. Im impressed did you make the design or find it somplace? Let me know...thnks in advance.


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## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

very cool


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

KnkKnk said:


> Jim... Solid advice I'm sure.. I already have children issues with simple things like hammers and screwdrivers.. somehow they just seem to walk off and end up in the driveway/yard and "Nobody" has touched them. Something I am slowly learning to live with as they get older.
> 
> Thanks again for everyones feedback, here is the latest update:
> -Got the compressor moved to the shop over the weekend
> ...


when spraying lacquer use 30 lbs of air that is just right I use M.L.Campbell cabnet grade sanding sealer and satin finish Just lay a good coat Try and not put to much on It will run Less is better than more But just spray tell it look's like a nice gloss or coated good With a little practice you will get it down I thin my lacquer about 10 percent Or just like cooking a pinch is good been in lacquer for a few yrs good luck


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Hey Guys...

Im turning this muti year project into a career..:blink:

First Ill briny you all up to speed on where Im at... Then I gotta ask for help again..

Heres a few shots of where the theater room is now.. Still a long way to go...











































So I've been spraying along .. I know its not necessairly top furniture quality finish, but its better than I was able to acheive in the past and its been very consitant to date.

The last couple of weeks I've tried to spray and I've been having a couple of issues now..

I'm started getting what I'll describe as 100's of very time air bubbles in my schellac.. about the size of a pin head... and this morning I started getting a "milkey" sheen in it too...

The only thing different about now an what I've been doing.. is that I've been spraying outside.. Its been in the mid to high 90's and relatively highy humidity...

So do you guys think its the heat and humidity..

whats causing these tiny bubbles?

Whats causing this milky finish?

I've been able to lightly sand the little bubbles out.. but I dont know how to fix the milkey look..

any all suggestions/help from you all would be great..

Brad


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

The milkiness is known as blushing, and is a common occurrence when too many coats are applied too quickly, or the moisture content is high in the solvent. Let the finish dry for a day, then lightly and quickly wipe it down with a 1/4# cut of shellac, or straight alcohol. This will allow the trapped moisture to evaporate.

 Butyl and propyl alcohol can be added to shellac dissolved in ethanol in small amounts to act as retarders, which make the shellac stay wet longer for better application and prevent bubbles from the finish skinning over too soon and trapping solvent. The trapped solvent tries to escape through the film and causes bubbles. You can also try using a thinner cut of shellac for your first couple of coats on open pore woods like oak.


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Rick, Thanks man..

This makes perfect sense.. It was so hot out everything seemed to be drying to the touch "fast", and I was spraying the layers with very little time in between each.. So this combined with the high humidity cased the tiny bubbles and milky look.

Fortunately, the "Milky" looked ended up drying clear once it sat for several hours..and the little bubbles came out with a light sanding, and everything was fine once I sprayed another coat.

Now I understand, Ill thin the first couple of coats in the future, and have a little more patience between coats.. Live and learn:blink:

Brad


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## Eusibius2 (Jan 6, 2010)

Still - an amazingly beautiful work of art. Kudos!


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## KnkKnk (Dec 3, 2009)

Hey Guys... wanted to post a pic of the room and say thanks to Rick and for everyone's help,










Brad


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

That looks great...nicely done!!:yes:












 







.


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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Beautiful Job!


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## samhamory (Dec 8, 2011)

Beautiful!!!


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