# Surface/Thickness Planers



## LiveOakFarms (Aug 12, 2013)

:thumbsup:
I have recently moved from Alaska back to TN. I had to sell all of my woodworking tools due to excessive shipping cost from Alaska. I have replaced most of them except the surface/thickness planer.

I have been in the market for a good quality surface/thickness planer. For the last few weeks I have been reading many performance reviews from owners of various makes and models. What seems to be the general drift is that there is something wrong with every planer on the market. From the bench top (12-13 inch widths to the 15 to 16 inch widths). Example: Fine Working magazine gives the De Walt 735 great reviews. Says there is nothing better. Some owners say its a piece of junk. I owned one and my experience was "It was a piece of junk". It would quit running about mid-way through a board. The service center gave me my money back stating that they couldn't fix it. 

I once owned a Makita 12 inch bench top and had good luck with it and was almost ready to buy the new 2012nb until I read several negative reviews. 

I have read reviews for the Jet 16 inch and the Powermatic 15 inch and some say the Jet belts burn up or overheat after the first few hours of service. Some say the Powermatic has problems also. 

Please give me some input about the types of planers you have and use daily. What brand, mode or type would you recommend? Please help.

Thank you,

LiveOakFarms


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

My planer is old so my knowledge is second hand , in recent times worked with some (mostly retired) pros. they are moving away from Dewalt because of quality down grading, Rigid seems to be their new chose, especially with a lifetime warranty. Anyone have an opinion on Rigid tools?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I have a DW735.....i've run about 400 bf of soft maple, hard maple and oak through it now......on the original knives which still don't need replacing. Its stopped feeding once to which I wiped down the feed rollers which were covered in sap and saw dust (don't plane construction grade 2x4's.....my own fault) with mineral spirits and waxed the bed......that was 200 bf ago or so.......still cutting perfect. I did buy the in/outfeed tables and a wixey for it......but other than that.......its the same as when I bought it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

tonycan said:


> Anyone have an opinion on Rigid tools?



I've never been terribly impressed.......I think they're decent....but not as good as Dewalt or Makita. For portable stuff, it'd be the new dewalt 20v stuff......planers it'd be another dw735......Stationary stuff...i'd probably look at steel city or grizzly if it was a budget purchase. I really like my steel city built table saw.....

I guess thats more than you asked....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have a 15" Jet I like*






It's not this same one, but this one has good features. The motor is above which usually means the table stays at a fixed height which allows for same height in and outfeed tables. Unlike where the motor is underneath, like mine where then height of the table changes as you take more off each piece. I could be wrong on that, I donno?
the Jet has good power and is accurate. there are other planers and reviews on this link.... :thumbsup:

I also have this one but have zero hours on it and the price is the same as above:


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## JMartel (Nov 30, 2011)

tonycan said:


> Rigid seems to be their new chose, especially with a lifetime warranty. Anyone have an opinion on Rigid tools?


Don't do it. I bought a Rigid R4331 thinking the same as you. First one lasted about 12 days of what I would consider normal use. Then it started eating itself alive and sounded like a coffeecan full of nuts. Returned it thinking I got a lemon, got a new one, and within 2 hours of getting the new one home, it started eating internals as well.

Bought a Dewalt 735 with the extra knives and in/outfeed table package from Amazon and haven't looked back. The quality on the Dewalt is FAR superior. Plus, it has 2 feed rates, and the slow one will save you time on sanding (still need to sand, but you can start at a higher grit). Spend the money.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

I have had a 2 post and 4 post Dewalt- no troubles. Now a 15" delta. never go back to a lunchbox again. I plane a lot of rough lumber and it is a lot faster.


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## Crusader (Jan 14, 2013)

I must be one of the lucky ones concerning my Rigid 13". I have never had a problem, still on the original knives. Loud as all get out though.
I bought this one from Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0453Z/images/4 I can't report on it yet as I'm in the process of setting it
up.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Crusader said:


> I must be one of the lucky ones concerning my Rigid 13". I have never had a problem, still on the original knives. Loud as all get out though.
> I bought this one from Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0453Z/images/4 I can't report on it yet as I'm in the process of setting it
> up.


I would love to get the spiral!!! You bought the ding and dent-didn't you? If you do not mind how much??


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*pretty good reviews on this 5 stars all*






Very heavy, and the reviewer states that Grizzly and Shop Fox phone numbers are associated with it. Check it out for the price .... seems like a great deal compared to the Dewalts at a similar price.


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## Crusader (Jan 14, 2013)

mike1950 said:


> I would love to get the spiral!!! You bought the ding and dent-didn't you? If you do not mind how much??


 
Don't be all hating me after I tell you.
After taxes $1,157


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Crusader said:


> Don't be all hating me after I tell you.
> After taxes $1,157


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## LiveOakFarms (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks to all who responded. I am still confused about what brand to buy. I would like to have a quality stationary planer if I had the confidence to pick one brand over the other. I like the Jet 16 inch open stand. I have had good luck with Jet products. I would think the Powermatic 15 inch would be the top quality one but it is not rated any better than the Jet, according to the reviews I have read, and it cost about $500.00 more.

I guess old habits are hard to break. I am still leaning toward the Makita 2012nb. Stop me if you don't agree.

LiveOakFarms


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## dt1050 (Jun 21, 2013)

I have a 12.5 craftsman, $300. new, got a 2 year warranty and an extra set of blades. has worked very well, some snipe,on smaller boards probably due to operator error.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

tonycan said:


> My planer is old so my knowledge is second hand , in recent times worked with some (mostly retired) pros. they are moving away from Dewalt because of quality down grading, Rigid seems to be their new chose, especially with a lifetime warranty. Anyone have an opinion on Rigid tools?


i have had a ridgid 13" planer for yrs and never had any problum with it, I run lot's of wood thro, all hard wood's , only change blade's , i just rum my blades over 1000 grit paper and get a edge , and than put back on, they work again, i know i could get the sharpened but they are soft steel and not ment to be regrind ? just my opion, whet ever work for you , My planer i bought when they first came out and i use it almost every day . my 2 cent's


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm an old arn fan. 
Here is a 16" PM planer for $700. 3 ph, but for $150 you could but a converter. Or install a 1 ph motor. 
For $850 if in good shape, I would rather have that than a Chiwanese one, for $400 more.
http://huntsville.craigslist.org/tls/3980067770.html


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

15" Delta, a work horse. You need good dust collection with a 5" duct. Handles anything you put through it, 2 speeds, compact, nice folding feed tables, requires 220 outlet. Stationary planers are the way to go if you want a serious planer capable of handling a few hundred LF on a regular basis for many years. They have the adjustability to fine tune correctly that portables don't have as well as plenty of power, substantial hardened blades, options for insert or spiral cutters.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

Have you considered buying a sturdy older machine and going through it? I bought an 80s Delta 13" and rebuilt it for not too much more than a lightweight benchtop model. Here are some pics:

http://bullfire.net/Planer/Planer.html


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

ed_h said:


> Have you considered buying a sturdy older machine and going through it? ...


In the interest of safety I warn against that!


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## info (Oct 3, 2011)

ed_h said:


> Have you considered buying a sturdy older machine and going through it? I bought an 80s Delta 13" and rebuilt it for not too much more than a lightweight benchtop model. Here are some pics:
> 
> http://bullfire.net/Planer/Planer.html


Was that your planer ?


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

info said:


> Was that your planer ?


Yes.


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

Many here including myself have the DW 735 and get good results with it. I still love mine after 6 years and if it died I would buy another.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

You are the first person that I have ever heard say the DeWalt 735 is a piece of junk. I have one. A year ago I bought a used Delta 15" planer but I still have my 735 and I have no intentions of getting rid of it!
Tom


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## info (Oct 3, 2011)

ed_h said:


> Yes.


You did a great job:thumbsup:


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

DW735 here as well. No issues with it.


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## Duncancruiser (Dec 6, 2011)

I have had my dewalt 735 for 2 years now and wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

jharris2 said:


> In the interest of safety I warn against that!



It does tickle a little.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

info said:


> You did a great job:thumbsup:


Thanks.


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## mrcanterbury (May 7, 2012)

I also use a 735 with the dewalt infeed/outfeed tables and see almost no snipe whatsoever.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

ed_h said:


> It does tickle a little.


Belly laugh!

Thanks!


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## rbhicks (May 20, 2012)

I have had the Dw735 for a few years. No issues. I also have the outfeed tables.


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## Dan_T (Dec 19, 2012)

I've had the DW735 for a couple months now. So far I like it a lot.


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## rcp612 (Mar 25, 2008)

Let me begin by stating that this is my personal take on the subject of shopping by reviews.
Most of my life I've been a non-conformist. I use, buy, and endorse products as honestly as possible, drawing from my real life experiences with those products.
That being said, I feel reviews need to be weighed carefully, because, just like elections, the majority always wins.
How many Dewalt 735's have been commented on as compared to any other brand?
I think most buyers end up buying the most popular brand instead of researching the actual differences between brands, and/or needs.
I believe I'll be the 2nd in this thread to say I have the Rigid R4330, bought when first released in 2007 I believe, and am totally happy with it. 
The fact that it has no cutter head lock has not given me any problems although many people point that out as the biggest problem with it, even though, I think they are just repeating what they have heard, not actually experienced.
I guess what I'm trying to say is,,,,get the planer YOU want based on your personal needs and/or budget, and I'm sure you will be posting positive reviews about whichever model you buy.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

All I have had were 24" industrial machines, as of now I have 3 in my shop. 

You could not pay me to have a lunch box or import machine.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> You could not pay me to have a lunch box or import machine.


All your festool pieces are imports....I believe you wanted to say you won't have an Asian import tool....

It's funny how Japanese cars were looked at in the 80's, versus today....makes me wonder if the same thing is happening with tools.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> All your festool pieces are imports....I believe you wanted to say you won't have an Asian import tool....
> 
> It's funny how Japanese cars were looked at in the 80's, versus today....makes me wonder if the same thing is happening with tools.


That's strange. I thought Japanese cars were well regarded in the 80's and the US manufactures had the issue. I know I bough an 82 Accord and talked to several dealerships and had to get on a waiting list to get my car they were in such high demand. I will say I believe the U S manufactures got the message and now produce a better product than in the 80's.
Tom


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> All your festool pieces are imports....I believe you wanted to say you won't have an Asian import tool....
> 
> It's funny how Japanese cars were looked at in the 80's, versus today....makes me wonder if the same thing is happening with tools.


Yeah, asian machines would be the correct wording, because I can't afford a new Martin planer.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I find it odd, some imports are ok while others not? So im guessing your ok with festool based on quality....what about powermatic tablesaws? They're great quality but imported from Asia?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> I find it odd, some imports are ok while others not? So im guessing your ok with festool based on quality....what about powermatic tablesaws? They're great quality but imported from Asia?


No pacific rim or asian machines or tools for me. 

Not a big powermatic fan, but I would not consider anything they made in asia.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> No pacific rim or asian machines or tools for me.
> 
> Not a big powermatic fan, but I would not consider anything they made in asia.


So I'm not trying to start a big thing here....but why not? Why is a high quality piece from Germany ok, but not a high quality piece from Asia. I understand disdain for cheap junk coming from Asia....but powermatic saws are among the best you can buy today....similar to festool.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

The quality of a lot of equipment made in Asia is dictated by the companies having them made there not the people who make them. Those of us who are on a fixed income cannot go spending big time money on equipment, we make do with lesser quality and moderate our expectations of the equipment and work around the problems. I would love to have some stand alone top of the line equipment but money and room dictate differently.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

And I understand the need for less expensive tools, today they come from china, at one point they came from Japan and Germany....I'm not arguing the fact that there aren't subpar tools that some people wouldn't want. 

What I'm debating is a blanket statement saying the tools from Asia are crap and no one should buy them. (Obviously paraphrasing here). If its about buying American that's one thing, but we've seen that European imports are fine, so now were back to just saying Asian tools aren't good. 


I'd argue that some Asian tools (powermatic for example) are as good today as you can buy. And a statement that imported tools are junk is an inaccurate statement at best.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

I readily agree that not all Asian produced equipment Is poor, hence the comment that it is the companies quality requirements that dictate how good the manufacturing is. My point is that to only buy North American or German equipment is beyond the pocket of the majority. I recently replaced my old Craftsman fixed base Router with a combo set ($ 106 US) from Skil ( Bosch tool co.) and am totally impressed with the results, both freehand and in the table. It was made in Mexico.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Because I like to support places that actually pay their workforce a wage you can live on and provide with. I do not want to give my money to a communist country that owns the majority of our debt. I do want my money to get in the hands of countrys and people that hate the US. 

I could go on, but I was trying to keep that part out of this conversation. 
Once a company decides to outsource the manufacturing of their equipment to an Asian/Pac Rim country, they are doing so to cut costs. 

I will not buy a powermatic made in Asia, it is a shame they have taken that route. It is a shame General canada took that route. it is a shame Americans have let almost everything go that route. 

A quality circular saw cost more in 1950 then it does today, I am talking actual dollars, no inflation. I am not really sure if you can call most quality today. We have a throw away mentality now, never used to be that way and I find that a disgrace. You buy quality for life, not just for a couple years. 

Go to the power tool section and check out just how good the quality control is, look at what you get when you buy a 1400 saw from Baileigh. You get something that the fit and finish is horrible.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Interesting...so it's not about quality, it's about politics. 

What kind of phone or computer are you posting here from if you don't mind me asking?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> Interesting...so it's not about quality, it's about politics.
> 
> What kind of phone or computer are you posting here from if you don't mind me asking?


It's more about quality and pride. I can't afford cheap tools, I don't have time for them. I use my tools and machinery to feed and provide for my family. I hate everything to do with outsourcing manufacturing to Asian based country's. American's have become cheap and constantly want more for less. I hate that. I want value, value to me has more to do with how long of service life I can expect out of something. I don't want to buy the same thing every few years just because it is cheap.

Cheap Chinese and Asian made tools are not made to last, they are made to a price point. A price point that has conditioned people to be used to crappy throw away tools, machines and goods.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

tonycan said:


> I readily agree that not all Asian produced equipment Is poor, hence the comment that it is the companies quality requirements that dictate how good the manufacturing is. My point is that to only buy North American or German equipment is beyond the pocket of the majority. I recently replaced my old Craftsman fixed base Router with a combo set ($ 106 US) from Skil ( Bosch tool co.) and am totally impressed with the results, both freehand and in the table. It was made in Mexico.


Totally agree with you!!! I wasn't glossing over your comment. 

Every time this conversation comes up it riles me up. It's not realistic to think every hobbiest is going to have 1900's saw benches and 24 inch 10hp planers. And to make new woodworkers think anything less is junk is counter productive. Would I like a stationary planer, sure, but it would end my woodworking hobby as I'd die trying to get it down stairs, and if I did, it would be the only thing in my shop as there'd be no room for anything else. 

Lunchbox planers, and other modern import tools have a place, which is in most hobby shops. Are they going to run non stop 24/7, no, but many of us don't need them too.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's more about quality and pride. I can't afford cheap tools, I don't have time for them. I use my tools and machinery to feed and provide for my family. I hate everything to do with outsourcing manufacturing to Asian based country's. American's have become cheap and constantly want more for less. I hate that. I want value, value to me has more to do with how long of service life I can expect out of something. I don't want to buy the same thing every few years just because it is cheap.
> 
> Cheap Chinese and Asian made tools are not made to last, they are made to a price point. A price point that has conditioned people to be used to crappy throw away tools, machines and goods.


But you've just said its not about quality..there's tons of good quality Asian tools out there in hobby shops, production shops, and huge industrial facilities that work non stop. 

I'm not arguing that the 100 dollar table saws you can buy today aren't junk, but your asserting a 4000 dollar Asian table saw isn't good enough quality to provide for your family with? Or that it won't last?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I never once said it is not about quality to me. I will not support an Asian based company or manufacturer. To make what they make at the price point it sells for, something is skimped on, plain and simple. It is not my fault there is not much of a choice for affordable machinery that is made here, it is everyone's fault for wanting more for less. It wasn't that long ago there were tons of choices for hobby shop guys, parks, delta, homecraft, Walker Turner, Darra james, etc. 

We as American's killed that off. I do not want to contribute to that anymore. I am more then happy paying good money for good tools, made in a place that is not communist, not aiding in party's that hate the US and that the labor force can afford to provide for their family.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I never once said it is not about quality to me. I will not support an Asian based company or manufacturer. To make what they make at the price point it sells for, something is skimped on, plain and simple.


What is skimped on for saw stops, powermatics and high end grizzlys? 

They're certainly not cheap....they're not hitting a particular price point.... I haven't seen any particular weaknesses in them? So enlighten me as to where the quality is not right? 

What would you expect the life expectancy of a 3500-4000 dollar powermatic tablesaw to be for the average guy on here?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Most on here would not even buy a 300-400 dollar saw, too much money.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Because I like to support places that actually pay their workforce a wage you can live on and provide with. I do not want to give my money to a communist country that owns the majority of our debt. I do want my money to get in the hands of countrys and people that hate the US.
> .



Here's the real reason I suspect you won't buy Asian tools, and that's fine. Nothing at all wrong with that....I probably wouldn't support Iranian tools if they tried to sell them here. 

By the way, talk to someone that's visited Hong Kong or Taiwan, and the people there are pretty fond of Americans. I don't think you've got it at all right that buying Asian is buying from people that hate us.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Most on here would not even buy a 300-400 dollar saw, too much money.


There's a ton of guys on here with grizzly and saw stop saws.....all well over 1000 bucks....and to those that can't afford a high end saw, should they not woodwork?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

By the way, should we stop exporting our stuff to china if we stop importing theirs?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Why feed them? Why have we outsourced all of this manufacturing? Why should I support powermatic anymore? Someone decided they could make more profit farming out the manufacturing to china, what was so wrong with the last 60 years they were made here? 

Chinese steel is not near the quality as US made steel, Chinese bearings and pulleys are no where near the quality of US, German or even Japanese made one's.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's more about quality and pride. I can't afford cheap tools, I don't have time for them. I use my tools and machinery to feed and provide for my family.
> 
> ***I completely understand that. The tools you buy are a business investment. They have to perform and last long term under constant use. For you these expenditures are tax deductible?
> 
> ...


....


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Why should we feed human beings that are building them? Because its what we've done as human beings for centuries. International trade is nothing new....it's part if the reason North America was discovered in the first place. 


So how specifically does the lower quality steel affect the new powermatic table saws, can you provide an instance where anyone has had a problem with the steel in one? 

Are you making an assumption that the quality isn't there, or do you have anything to back it up?

Lastly, when did profit become a bad thing? I don't hold stock in companies that don't make profit.....and the more they make, the better my bottom line is at the end of the year.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Lastly, when did profit become a bad thing? I don't hold stock in companies that don't make profit.....and the more they make, the better my bottom line is at the end of the year.


No shame in profit.

Profit is Capitalism. America is a capitalist country. 

Anyone who doesn't like it can move to Greece. I hear their doing very well. 

Profit is used as a dirty word by those who, in spite of all the opportunity capitalism provides them have to blame someone else for their unhappy situation.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Because I like to support places that actually pay their workforce a wage you can live on and provide with. I do not want to give my money to a communist country that owns the majority of our debt. I do want my money to get in the hands of countrys and people that hate the US.
> 
> I could go on, but I was trying to keep that part out of this conversation.
> Once a company decides to outsource the manufacturing of their equipment to an Asian/Pac Rim country, they are doing so to cut costs.
> ...


If any of the moderators are watching this thread I just want you to know that it took all the self control that I have to not respond to this. If I did I figure I would get a warning because it could only be called political!
Tom


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

So for reference to determine the "value" that a modern Asian tool has compared to the old ones. 

Grizzly's top of the line 16 inch jointer.....6500 dollars spiral cutter head......and I think you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that it wouldn't run for years and years in a continuous use shop.......

Olivers 16 inch jointer price in 1929.....840 dollars....and according to the bureau of labor statistics....the equivalent of 11,500 dollars today. 

Would anyone be willing to spend twice as much.....to have it built here vs there? Cause in my mind...if it dies in 30 years, i'll buy a new one and still be money ahead.....

The argument that Asian tools don't have VALUE, is confusing to me.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I would pay it. You would be supporting a US business, that employed US labor force where the profits stayed right here in the US. No outsourcing cheap labor and materials to garner a profit that way. 

I would gladly pay what I pay for my Festools from a US manufacturer, if one would step up and do the right thing.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

There is still a company making industrial machines here and a large jointer from them is in the 12k price range.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

Let me reiterate what I said before. In working life an aerospace engine machinist, Inspector, repair instruction writer, had the best equipment , used the best equipment including CNC Lathes, Mills,Plasms cutters etc.and wouldn't have had it any other way. Now retired and living on a pension. My Planer is an old Craftsman, my scroll saw is an old Delta, my TS a Delta, my Jointer is a Delta, my Compound Mitre saw is Mastercraft (any Canadian knows the quality of Can/Tire) .Are they what I would have as choice, no, they are what I can afford and what I have room for, nor would I have them if I was a professional, but would I suggest to anyone starting woodwork as a hobby to wait until they can afford high end professional equipment, never.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I would pay it. You would be supporting a US business, that employed US labor force where the profits stayed right here in the US. No outsourcing cheap labor and materials to garner a profit that way.
> 
> I would gladly pay what I pay for my Festools from a US manufacturer, if one would step up and do the right thing.


But you said it was about quality....that's my point. Your making those recommendations based on national pride not on the merits of the machine.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

TomC said:


> If any of the moderators are watching this thread I just want you to know that it took all the self control that I have to not respond to this. If I did I figure I would get a warning because it could only be called political!
> Tom


Sure is too bad somebody cannot ask about planers without getting into a p!$$ing match. If you are going to use it as a weekend warrior a lunchbox is fine- 2 tons of beautiful steel will not be necessary, affordable nor will it improve your work. Buy the the dewalt and spend the extra money on some nice walnut or cherry. 

Guys- we are supposed to be able to be friendly lets all try............. and smile- life is too short for this BS.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

TOMC, I quoted you cause I agreed- just wanted to make sure you realized that.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

mike1950 said:


> If you are going to use it as a weekend warrior a lunchbox is fine- 2 tons of beautiful steel will not be necessary, affordable nor will it improve your work. Buy the the dewalt and spend the extra money on some nice walnut or cherry..


Agreed!!!!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> But you said it was about quality....that's my point. Your making those recommendations based on national pride not on the merits of the machine.


A forum search, with key words grizzly problem, in the tool section yields 194 topics on that. 

Where is that quality control?


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Just read through some of the posts. Personally, I have mostly commercial grade tools. (it's a hobby) I don't expect all woodworkers to buy like I did. But it does bug me when cheap tool owners think their tool is just as good. Or when they need help when their saw won't cut straight and can't seem to be tuned to correct the problem. But I will say. Cheap tools do cut better than they did 20 years ago. Just not for very long.

Something that has been overlooked as a means to purchase quality tools is financing. We don't even think twice about buying a car or truck for $25,000 or more and finance the whole amount. Only to see it drop in value. Put that money into a table saw, jointer and nice sized planer and in 5 years it will be worth the same or more. I bought my Unisaw for $1900 over 25 years ago. That saw costs almost twice that amount. Nothing has been replaced or repaired. I know people that spend more each month on cigarettes.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## TCWood (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't have a dedicated planer, but for smaller projects (ie: knife handles), I use a radial planer attachment on my drill press. It works. I was surprised at this when I got it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> A forum search, with key words grizzly problem, in the tool section yields 194 topics on that.
> 
> Where is that quality control?


Against what 10's of thousands sold? Maybe more?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

ryan50hrl said:


> Against what 10's of thousands sold? Maybe more?


Are you in a committed relationship with Grizzly?

A few posts ago you wanted some proof, you said there are a bunch of guys here with these saws.

Seems lots come here because they have problems with their stuff.

It must hurt your feelings or something.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

It was ( I think ) a discussion on planers, quality , affordability etc. unfortunately 2 someone has turned it into a tool snobbery contest and a personal attack dialogue. I wasenjoy


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

Repeat Iwas enjoying this Webb sight but not for pro American/ anti others politics , maybe time to move else where, people who blog are usually looking for help and ideas not Rah Rah political rhetoric. Maybe time to move on.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*a different pouint of view here*

I bought a lunch box Ryobi 13" planer. Used it twice. It's OK.
I have a 12" Foley Belsaw planer, used it hundreds of times, mostly cast iron and sturdy, sounds like a freight train when running, but planes smooth. I have a jet 15" planer, nice cast iron, 3 Hp runs smooth, planes smooth. I have a grizzly 20" 5 HP, used it once ....so far ... no room to really use it right now. 

If I were to spend 8 hrs a day milling, planing and joining wood for a living I'd want the heaviest, most reliable and powerful machines I could AFFORD. If that meant buying old 3 phase machines and restoring them, that's what I'd do. 

The 25 yr old Foley Belsaw was $300 like new, never operated and needed a new $200 Baldor motor. The Ryobi I bought on a whim on sale for taking to the job site...$200. The Jet was to be a "replacement" for the Foley, but it won't die, about $1200 on sale. The 20" Grizzly was on sale for about $1900.

To me it depends on 2 things, the budget and the type and duration of use, which may include portabilty. For example, my buddy who makes a living making raised panel doors 8 to 10 hours per day has only old cast iron, 3 phase machines, and really knows how to use and maintain them. 

I appreciate the "buy American" idea, but it's hard to put that into practice in this "global" economy with even the trusted name brands being made/assembled in Mexico and other exotic places.
To each his own I guess.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Are you in a committed relationship with Grizzly?
> 
> A few posts ago you wanted some proof, you said there are a bunch of guys here with these saws.
> 
> ...



Nope.....I don't have a single grizzly piece. 

I wanted proof that poor steel or bad bearings are the cause of problems with Asian tools......not that someone didn't read the owners manual or used a crappy blade. You probably don't hear as many complaints about old iron brands any more.....cause you can't buy a new one. I bet the guys on this website have grizzly, jet or shop fox stuff 100 to 1 on the old iron stuff........


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Alright......Well i'm going to say to the OP.....buy whatever fits your needs and budget. If you have specific models in mind, feel free to bounce them off of everyone........other than that.....i'm out on this one.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

well, you can still buy new ones. Still several companys around that are still making machines.


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## Brentley (Dec 2, 2012)

Asian made products can be of hit or miss quality. 

Depending on the vendor and product type. The company that I used to work for was in the process of off-shoring the manufacture of our server and storage hardware. As we progressed through the process the plastic and the sheet metal improved. So quality is what you ask for when manufacturing in Asia.

The Saw stop is made in Taiwan to the specifications of Saw Stop, it is a good piece of equipment that I would love to own and most folks would like. The majority of the profit on that product would stay in the US and they do final assembly here as well which creates jobs etc.

the other thing to consider is the ecosystem that is built up around manufacturing centers. If you look at the detroit network effects (as GM et al. cratered the ancillary business failed as well) as the typical case study you see that large centers of industrial production there will be supporting businesses created. In the US given that all of the heavy industry has left (for a variety of reasons, one of the most important being the cost of labor) there are no supporting businesses that would supply components. This creates serious supply chain and logistics challenges as well increases costs. 

Asia is where most of these eco-systems have migrated to, particularly in things like electronics, and thus all of the integration etc. happens there.

And lastly don't discount the nimby effect in running manufacturing out of the US, here in CA we are the largest consumer of gas, but due to nimbyism have not had a new oil refinery opened in decades, thus we have a long supply chain and pay a large amount for gas.


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## Brentley (Dec 2, 2012)

And through all of that I have a Dewalt 735 that works great. I would buy another without batting an eye.


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

So the big question, what did the OP decide?

On a side note, I decided to check the math... My set of LN planes to hand plane my boards, cost more than my DW735... who knew.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

ryan50hrl said:


> So how specifically does the lower quality steel affect the new powermatic table saws, can you provide an instance where anyone has had a problem with the steel in one?



Not Powermatic, but a friend with a Grizz planer/moulder, had a gear, or sprocket brake in half. I'm fairly sure it was a steel problem.

As a hobby woodworker, with a budget, and not having $$$ out the wazoo, I can't justify, quality US, German, etc.. made machines. Thats why, I buy old arn. 
We used to make some fine machines.
3-4 of my machines are 60+ years old and functioning like new. I wonder after 30 years, how many Asian machines will still be running as well.

Have to go and get more popcorn!


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

I have to say, that this is a hobby for me. That's NetDoc code for "I'm only willing to spend so much!" I just bought a Steel City planer. It is the first planer I have ever owned or used. It's been sitting two days now, all set up, but I haven't had the opportunity to play with it. Day will break in a few minutes. I will go and eat breakfast, start and finish a honey-do, drop off tanks to be filled and pick up the ones already finished. Hopefully, by one or so, I'll have the opportunity to hook up the shop vac and mill some reclaimed oak. 

In the Scuba industry we have a phenomenon among divers and especially dive shops. Many think that if they don't own it, teach it, dive it or sell it, then it must be junk. Life is too short to play those games. Your enjoyment in the water does not come from the gear on your back, but the attitude in your heart. Likewise, your skill in the water is based on practice and your attention to detail, not on the gear you happen to strap on. In fact, it's safe to say that too often people throw gear at a training issue. I'm sure I am guilty of that when it comes to woodworking and that many of you will think I have made some unwise purchases. That's OK. Experience comes from making poor decisions and surviving. I'll stop making mistakes right after I depart this world. Still learning after all these years.


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## rcp612 (Mar 25, 2008)

LiveOakFarms said:


> :thumbsup:
> I have recently moved from Alaska back to TN. I had to sell all of my woodworking tools due to excessive shipping cost from Alaska. I have replaced most of them except the surface/thickness planer.
> 
> I have been in the market for a good quality surface/thickness planer. For the last few weeks I have been reading many performance reviews from owners of various makes and models. What seems to be the general drift is that there is something wrong with every planer on the market. From the bench top (12-13 inch widths to the 15 to 16 inch widths). Example: Fine Working magazine gives the De Walt 735 great reviews. Says there is nothing better. Some owners say its a piece of junk. I owned one and my experience was "It was a piece of junk". It would quit running about mid-way through a board. The service center gave me my money back stating that they couldn't fix it.
> ...



Have you gotten an answer yet??:no:
Do you see how easy it is to lose sight of the original post?:thumbdown:
Can you understand how some members have such a high post count that may not be helpful to anyone?:blink:

My thinking is that the moderators should have stopped this personal argument a long time ago but,,,,,,,,,,,,,
since they didn't, I'm going to offer my apologies to you for not being able to get a reasonable discussion/comparison from what I had thought was a group of well-meaning people.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

]
Can you understand how some members have such a high post count that may not be helpful to anyone?:blink:.[/quote]
I think that was meant for me.....huh.
[quote="rcp612 said:


> I'm going to offer my apologies to you for not being able to get a reasonable discussion/comparison from what I had thought was a group of well-meaning people.


My apologies as well, I still think its a group of well meaning people...just very opinionated people!!!



rcp612 said:


> Have you gotten an answer yet??:no:.


Any planers you've narrowed it down to?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

rcp612 said:


> Have you gotten an answer yet??:no:
> Do you see how easy it is to lose sight of the original post?:thumbdown:
> Can you understand how some members have such a high post count that may not be helpful to anyone?:blink:
> 
> ...



That is even worse. Who are you trying to suck up to?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

rcp612 said:


> Can you understand how some members have such a *high post count* that may not be helpful to anyone?:blink:


Just who did you have in mind as not being helpful here pal? Name names if you're gonna call out someone, and then wait for the mods to step in, if that's a big concern of yours. :blink:

If you have "helpful" advice post it. :yes:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

At the risk of raining on someone's parade. I'd like to see the OP respond to the posts. So many times the OP is long gone and the thread takes a left turn. Back when I used to start threads. I tried to respond to all the posts and keep the thread on track.

I'd like to list some aspects about planers that were pointed out to me when I bought my planer. Lunch box planers weren't invented back then.

How easy is it to change out the blades?

Are the blades high quality?

Table raise or cutter head.

Motor manufacture. 

Weight.

Pressed metal or cast.

Hp.

Cutter head speed.

Al

Fit and finish.

Track record.

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## LiveOakFarms (Aug 12, 2013)

*Surface Planers*

:yes:


ryan50hrl said:


> I think that was meant for me.....huh.
> My apologies as well, I still think its a group of well meaning people...just very opinionated people!!!
> Any planers you've narrowed it down to?


Yes, I am seriously considering the Steelex ST1002. It's the only one I haven't read any negative reviews about. Although I have only found three. I have looked for more but can't find any. But I like the looks of the machine. I was considering the Jet open stand but couldn't get a reply from the company about the negative reviews. I wanted to ask the company some questions but didn't want to wait an hour of more for a tech to answer the phone. I left a phone # for them to call me back but the didn't to my knowledge. 
Do you have a planer? If so what kind? Would appreciate a response. Any comments about the Steelex ST1002? 
I had a Makita and it was a quality machine but I want something with more power. I still have trouble getting the Makita 2012NB out of my mind. Haven't definitely made up my mind yet.

Happy Sunday!!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Looks like a solid enough unit, can't say I have ever seen one before, and the lack of reviews makes me nervous they don't sell many.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

LiveOakFarms said:


> .
> Do you have a planer? If so what kind? Would appreciate a response. !!


I do, it's the dewalt 735 with tables.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I did just locate what looks to be the same planer as the steelex, under the woodtek name, but no reviews this time. It had an open stand vs the closed cabinet. The price looks decent.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

LiveOakFarms

That planer looks like a carbon copy of my Delta. I bought mine over 20 years ago and haven't had to repair anything. In fact it looks like an exact copy right down to the little piece of steel just under the cutting head that discourages aggressive cuts. I like the head moving and the table stationary. Knives come out fairly easy. All the castings look like they came out of the same mold. It also looks like they have ties to Shop Fox.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

I have a 6 yr old delta X that I bought barely used. It looks the same. Great machine.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

Al B Thayer said:


> LiveOakFarms
> 
> That planer looks like a carbon copy of my Delta. I bought mine over 20 years ago and haven't had to repair anything. In fact it looks like an exact copy right down to the little piece of steel just under the cutting head that discourages aggressive cuts. I like the head moving and the table stationary. Knives come out fairly easy. All the castings look like they came out of the same mold. It also looks like they have ties to Shop Fox.
> 
> ...


They are both Woodstock companies:
http://www.woodstockint.com/woodstock-brands
I thought the same people who own Shop Fox also owns Grizzly, but I have not found confirmation.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

Both Shop Fox and Grizzly are owned by the same person, Shiraz Baloia. Haven't had a chance to check any further.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

Actually spelt BALOLIA, lives in Bellingham Washington and is, according to the Internet, a completion shooter of some repute.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Would it be okay to discuss cutter head styles. I've been looking into segmented heads. Anyone have the goods on them?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> Would it be okay to discuss cutter head styles. I've been looking into segmented heads. Anyone have the goods on them?
> 
> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Helical heads are quieter, and if you get nick in one, you don't have to pull all the knives.


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## cps (Jun 21, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Helical heads are quieter, and if you get nick in one, you don't have to pull all the knives.


and


The blades are four sided, so you can just turn to a new side when dull. Thus, you don’t have to replace until all for sides are used up.
You can get them in carbide, so they don’t dull quickly.
You don’t have to adjust the blades, they just screw in place.
Cost about 500 to 600 more than conventional blades.


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## Steve M. (Jun 4, 2013)

tonycan said:


> My planer is old so my knowledge is second hand , in recent times worked with some (mostly retired) pros. they are moving away from Dewalt because of quality down grading, Rigid seems to be their new chose, especially with a lifetime warranty. Anyone have an opinion on Rigid tools?


I've been buying some Rigid tools lately. Originally I didn't trust the brand and then they came out with the lifetime warranty and their pricing was so good that I tried a couple and was impressed with the quality. I also like having the Home Depot name behind them. My local HD has been good to me. Now I include them in all my new tool searches and they have been winning quite a few. I'd rather buy American made but reviews or pricing has been keeping that from happening as much as I'd like. I currently own the following Rigid tools and am happy with the quality:
Table saw ( large shop model)
ROA sander
Palm router 

The other Rigid tools I have are as follows:
13" planer (I got this in a trade and have not used it enough to rate yet)
1/4 sheet palm sander, I am not happy with this one. The front clip kept dropping the paper. I took it back.

I'm looking at their joiner now...

Good luck!


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Have any of you guys used one or have one? How's the cut?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Used one of what? The steelex planer?


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

The Steelex appears to be a knockoff of an 80s Delta.

More pics of the insides:

http://bullfire.net/Planer/Planer.html


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ed_h said:


> The Steelex appears to be a knockoff of an 80s Delta.
> 
> More pics of the insides:
> 
> http://bullfire.net/Planer/Planer.html


There's my beautiful machine. If reliability is important. That machine wrote the book.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> Used one of what? The steelex planer?


segmented cutter head.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Steve M. (Jun 4, 2013)

ed_h said:


> Have you considered buying a sturdy older machine and going through it? I bought an 80s Delta 13" and rebuilt it for not too much more than a lightweight benchtop model. Here are some pics:
> 
> http://bullfire.net/Planer/Planer.html


 
Now THAT is a great looking planer...and a great job restoring! (If you haven't done it already you should consider posting that rebuild story on OWWM.com, I know they'd appreciate the work.)


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

Steve M. said:


> (If you haven't done it already you should consider posting that rebuild story on OWWM.com, I know they'd appreciate the work.)


Thanks, Steve. Yes, I posted the link on OWWM about a year ago and got some nice comments.

Ed


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ed_h said:


> Thanks, Steve. Yes, I posted the link on OWWM about a year ago and got some nice comments.
> 
> Ed


I own this planer and I don't think I have even replaced the belts. I don't use it for business but it has been in service since 1986. Have not needed to adjust it either. When I bought it. I purchased it from a tool dealer. They delivered it and made sure it was ready to go on site. I think one secret to my success with the machine is that I don't work it hard with dull blades.

Fine job on the restore. Your good to go for another 25 years. BTW there was a small piece of metal screwed into the underside of the cutter head to insure someone doesn't make a cut too deep. Did you remove it for any reason?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> BTW there was a small piece of metal screwed into the underside of the cutter head to insure someone doesn't make a cut too deep. Did you remove it for any reason?
> 
> Al


Al--

I saw the limiter mentioned in the manual and parts list, but it wasn't present on my machine. Could have been trashed by the PO. I'm typically fairly conservative with my cuts, so I didn't worry about it.

The manual said it was only supplied on single phase machines and reduced the maximum cut from 3/16" to 1/8".

Also, it looks like it only affected the center few inches of the width, so you could take a deeper cut on narrower pieces.

Ed


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## Merkava_4 (Nov 22, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> Al
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


Can you please quit putting that in your post?

I'm getting sick to death of reading it.


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## Wendel17 (Apr 20, 2009)

Merkava_4 said:


> Can you please quit putting that in your post?
> 
> I'm getting sick to death of reading it.


So don't read it....


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Merkava_4 said:


> Can you please quit putting that in your post?
> 
> I'm getting sick to death of reading it.


Really. Most find it funny and ironic. It's my signature. What can I say I'm a wood snob and don't find any value or merit in using pressed metal tools.

Al B Thayer

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> Really. Most find it funny and ironic. It's my signature. What can I say I'm a wood snob and don't find any value or merit in using pressed metal tools.
> 
> Al B Thayer
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


I find it ironic so many people are concerned about the tools....rather than the craftsmanship coming off of them.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ed_h said:


> Al--
> 
> I saw the limiter mentioned in the manual and parts list, but it wasn't present on my machine. Could have been trashed by the PO. I'm typically fairly conservative with my cuts, so I didn't worry about it.
> 
> ...


I think that's the reason it's short and in the middle so we don't take a full width board too deep. I'm Conservative with my cuts too and don't over work the machine or run with dull blades. Did you rebuild to sell it or are you using it?

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

Ryan50 hri. As an x machinist I love equipment and admire the rebuilding of it but I do get your point. I don't know wether it is correct etiquette to mention names in on this forum but a good friend of mine uses ordinary wood ( usually Fir and Hemlock) and produces some stunning sculptures, check him out on the net.


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## tonyuno (Jan 5, 2013)

Sorry his name is Eli Wakan. Has not a lot of equipment, a mathematical mind and infinite patience.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

Al B Thayer said:


> Did you rebuild to sell it or are you using it?



Al--

I still have it. I put it in a semi-permanent spot in my shop with under (concrete) floor dust collection. Here's some other pics of the DC if anyone is interested:

http://bullfire.net/Dust_Collection/Under Floor Dust Collection.html

By the way, I like your sig.


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## LiveOakFarms (Aug 12, 2013)

*Woodworking planer*

Hello everyone. I have purchased the Jet 3hp 16inch open stand planer.
Thanks for your input.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

LiveOakFarms said:


> Hello everyone. I have purchased the Jet 3hp 16inch open stand planer.
> Thanks for your input.


Good for you. Thanks for the thread.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Merkava_4 (Nov 22, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> Really. Most find it funny and ironic. It's my signature. What can I say I'm a wood snob and don't find any value or merit in using pressed metal tools.
> 
> Al B Thayer
> 
> Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


I went to the User Control Panel at Edit Options and unchecked the box that allows signatures to be displayed. Your signature still remains. If the forum software was doing its job correctly, I wouldn't have needed to say anything.


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## Steve M. (Jun 4, 2013)

ed_h said:


> Al--
> 
> I still have it. I put it in a semi-permanent spot in my shop with under (concrete) floor dust collection. Here's some other pics of the DC if anyone is interested:
> 
> ...


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## NetDoc (Aug 6, 2013)

Very impressive ed_h!


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## VIFmike (Jul 21, 2012)

I bought the Porter Cable 12&1/2" one from Lowe's. It has worked great and I have used it daily (7 days a week) for over a year. I wish it had a lock to hold it in a position but other than that it works great. 

I bought it because it was all I could afford and I wanted it to last a year until I could afford a 20" which I will be buying soon. 

I use this on old wood, reclaimed wood etc. Nothing nice. It works great, is easy to change the blades. I have changed them once. They are reversible and cost 25 bucks at Lowes.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Merkava_4 said:


> I went to the User Control Panel at Edit Options and unchecked the box that allows signatures to be displayed. Your signature still remains. If the forum software was doing its job correctly, I wouldn't have needed to say anything.


Oh don't even give it a second thought. Let's talk wood.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

VIFmike said:


> I bought the Porter Cable 12&1/2" one from Lowe's. It has worked great and I have used it daily (7 days a week) for over a year. I wish it had a lock to hold it in a position but other than that it works great.
> 
> I bought it because it was all I could afford and I wanted it to last a year until I could afford a 20" which I will be buying soon.
> 
> I use this on old wood, reclaimed wood etc. Nothing nice. It works great, is easy to change the blades. I have changed them once. They are reversible and cost 25 bucks at Lowes.


You have surely found a value there. I do sometimes envy those planers. I know the head speed really does put out a nice finish. 

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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