# Harbor Freight 2HP Dust Collector Updates



## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

My father in law got a new 2hp DC and I helped him install it yesterday. There are some changes.

The motor housing is now shiny aluminum instead of cast iron.

















The bag is also a simple canvas instead of the thick felt from the old one.










I don't know what these differences mean, but I thought I'd share


----------



## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Nevermind


----------



## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

Keep us posted on how it works. I'm getting ready to drop the money on one of those and install it in my place.


----------



## Bob Bengal (Jan 2, 2021)

BigCountry79 said:


> The motor housing is now shiny aluminum instead of cast iron.


I think that kind of housing is common now, my new Rikon 14" bandsaw is like that.

Nice install. I'm undecided about exhausting to the outside without a filter though.


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

What's that motor?


----------



## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

m.n.j.chell said:


> Keep us posted on how it works. I'm getting ready to drop the money on one of those and install it in my place.


It works well except the filter bag is bad. I don't know how much better it worse the new bag works, and I will never install that bag, but it is MUCH thinner and appears to just be canvas.

I've had the older one for a year and it works well.


----------



## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Bob Bengal said:


> I think that kind of housing is common now, my new Rikon 14" bandsaw is like that.
> 
> Nice install. I'm undecided about exhausting to the outside without a filter though.


With the dust deputy installed, I could not see any dust being blown outside. Once it fills up then you are exhausting everything, but until then you are good.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Bob Bengal said:


> I think that kind of housing is common now, my new Rikon 14" bandsaw is like that.
> 
> Nice install. I'm undecided about exhausting to the outside without a filter though.


Dr. Robert is one member who exhausts to the outside, no filter required. And that is the big advantage, not pushing any air through a filter increases the air flow by double, maybe triple? If you can do it, then by all means, do so.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Dr. Robert is one member who exhausts to the outside, no filter required. And that is the big advantage, not pushing any air through a filter increases the air flow by double, maybe triple? If you can do it, then by all means, do so.


It's actually a disadvantage In the winter...


----------



## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

This is a garage shop, so it's not an issue.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

BigCountry79 said:


> This is a garage shop, so it's not an issue.


Dr. Robert lives in Florida, so it doesn't matter so much for him. I said "if you *can do it*, then do so" which would implies some analysis of the consequences.
It was -2 degrees F here in Michigan, this AM, so I can't do it. I'd lose too much room temperature air which is very expensive these days.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

At least you now understand why you shouldn't


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

BigCountry79 said:


> This is a garage shop, so it's not an issue.


Guess you didn't get it. Any idea how much heat was lost the first couple of winter months with a 24" DC...


----------



## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

Rebelwork said:


> Guess you didn't get it. Any idea how much heat was lost the first couple of winter months with a 24" DC...
> View attachment 435312


There is nothing to get or not get. You bring up things most people know when they are not relevant to the discussion.

You worked in a big factory. They made things from wood. We know.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I unsderstand.. heats cheap, who cares..

Nothing wrong with learning something..

My wife informed me this afternoon the electric bill was $80? More this month. Know why? Running additional heat in the garage. Do you think I should do a bit of maintenance on the garage door seals, or should it matter?


----------



## BigCountry79 (Jun 2, 2021)

It's a garage. THERE IS NO HEAT.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

And I'm speaking for those reading that it might not be a good ideal to blow the DC outside if they do Heat there shops in the winter months..

it's just woodworking...


----------



## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

My shop is in my basement - so it's heated/cooled. I've tried to thermally insulated it from the rest of the house. I'd be interested in hearing any comments on how external exhaust has impacted heating and cooling bills.

I was unaware that exhausting to the exterior could result in such a significant improvement in performance. It makes sense. My Powermatic PM1300TX isn't something I want to "hack," but I'd have no qualms about hacking a HFT collector with that sort of performance boost.


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

RepairmanJack said:


> My shop is in my basement - so it's heated/cooled. I've tried to thermally insulated it from the rest of the house. I'd be interested in hearing any comments on how external exhaust has impacted heating and cooling bills.
> 
> I was unaware that exhausting to the exterior could result in such a significant improvement in performance. It makes sense. My Powermatic PM1300TX isn't something I want to "hack," but I'd have no qualms about hacking a HFT collector with that sort of performance boost.


Assume the dust collector pulls reliably 1000 CFM, with the HF 2HP that is an, uh, optimistic figure, but say you are pulling 1K CFM and blowing it out the window.

Let's assume your basement workshop size is generous at 20x20 with 8ft ceilings. That is 3,200 CU/ft.

That means you are removing ALL of the air inside your heated or cooled space, and replaing it with air from wherever your makeup air is coming from. Which most likely means that will need to be heated or cooled, every 3.2 minutes.

Unless you are heating your air with microwaves, probably not going to be able to keep the space warmed, or cooled depending on your needs. 

IF you are in a more temperate climate where 67 - 75 degrees in the shop is reasonably expected, then blowing your fines out the window is a great solution. But for the rest of us, we really ought to spend the $$ and go with a pleated MERV15 cartridge filter for the DC. 

Some folks take an, uh, interesting approach, not sure how well it works long term, and I have ONLY EVER SEEN TWO EXAMPLES, where they blow the output air into basically a giant box housing a series of MERV15 household air filters, think like a 6' tall stack of MERV15 ultra allergen Filtretes that is probably 36x36 square. It is a weird setup, but maybe it works. Im not gonna try it...

Sorry diversion not withstanding, like I said, either you are in a very temeprate climate, which if you are, great for you, or you just limit when you work in the shop to avoid the climate issue, it's just not a great solution for the air exchange reason given above.

There is no shortage of folks that do it, and more poer to them. Just not going to be my thing.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Nice detailed explanation above^

The choices for venting a DC to the outside are:
1. Improved dust collection air flow/performance
2. Heat loss or AC loss if you do either.
3. It doesn't matter because "it's a garage" not heated, not cooled.
4. In a basement, It will draw the furnace and water heater gases back down the chimney creating a carbon monoxide hazard.

The advice:
You shouldn't, don't do it, you can't, it won't work, 
OR if you do it, consider all the consequences. 

I don't like "generalized" statements. Each application is different with different consequences.
Explain the consequences, then let the reader decide what's best for their application.
One word answers are typically not informative nor helpful.


----------



## Roybrew (Nov 2, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> Nice detailed explanation above^
> 
> The choices for venting a DC to the outside are:
> 1. Improved dust collection air flow/performance
> ...


I never thought about pulling the furnace and water heater gasses back down their flu pipes. That's interesting and could be dangerous.

I was thinking more of what it would look like outside where saw dust is being blown out, or maybe most of the dust gets contained in the bag. Just thinking.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


----------



## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

The math is much easier than I first guessed. My shop is actually smaller - slightly more than 7' ceilings, 26' long, by 12' (average width) so that's around 2200 cubic feet... so I'd get a complete flush every 2 minutes or so... yeah... that wouldn't be a good idea except in the spring and fall when temperatures are so nice we don't use the HVAC. 

It would also substantially increase the negative pressure inside the basement, pull more radon in through the cracks, and more conditioned air from the house into the basement. maybe Yep... this is not a good idea in my case.


----------



## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

Because I don't have one yet, and am interested in the discussion ... I have some questions on the math above. Well, not the math, but the application.
My understanding is that you close off all vacuum runs that are not being used, leaving only the tool being used exposed to DC vacuum. This increases the vacuum applied to that one pick up, but you would still not be pulling the maximum CFM the DC unit can produce.
So, although the DC system CAN pull 1000 CFM, it more likely would only be pulling a couple hundred CFM through a single line.
Am I incorrect in my thinking?

One reason I ask: I will be venting mine outside, since I am in an un-air-conditioned work shop in Florida. But with the above math, it seems as though my DC (when I get it installed) will also be a great ventilation/cooling tool by pulling all the air out in just a couple of minutes.


----------



## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Canvas bags are terrible and clog up. Felt bags are a complete joke. In a small, sealed shop air quality is huge. I know some people think it’s BS, try a 1/2 day of cutting up red cedar. You should also have an air scrubber.

@BigCountry79 I suggest both you and your FIL should have canister filters. I think there are canisters that can be mounted in series, reducing filter drag even more. I believe this came up in another thread.



m.n.j.chell said:


> Because I don't have one yet, and am interested in the discussion ... I have some questions on the math above. Well, not the math, but the application.
> My understanding is that you close off all vacuum runs that are not being used, leaving only the tool being used exposed to DC vacuum. This increases the vacuum applied to that one pick up, but you would still not be pulling the maximum CFM the DC unit can produce.
> So, although the DC system CAN pull 1000 CFM, it more likely would only be pulling a couple hundred CFM through a single line.
> Am I incorrect in my thinking?


 I think so. The rated CFM is at the blower with no ducts attached IOW zero resistance.



> One reason I ask: I will be venting mine outside, since I am in an un-air-conditioned work shop in Florida. But with the above math, it seems as though my DC (when I get it installed) will also be a great ventilation/cooling tool by pulling all the air out in just a couple of minutes.


Not gonna happen! I’m a fellow Floridian.

I have a 20” pedestal fan and a 4000CFM exhaust fan. Between the two, I rarely use a dust mask, unless I’m right over a cut. But not this morning — 22° here!

I am fortunate to have a big enough shop for a 14x16 climate controlled room. I keep all my hand tools in there and so most of my ww’ing in the summer.


----------



## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

The most recent "Tools & Shops" issue of Fine Woodworking has an interesting set-up from a guy named Steve Fikar, in Shalimar, Florida. He runs his collection pipe outside of the shop into an adjacent storage room. He has his collector and separator parked in a separate room and he built a "box" around the pleated filter on the top of his collector. This enclosing box opens back into the shop - sending the conditioned air back into the shop.

I'm not clear how such a setup would impact airflow and CFM, but I expect it would slow it down a bit more - depending on whether there is additional filtration on return setup.

I lived down in Florida for about 2 months back in 2000. Was operating out of Sebring, and Avon Park Air Force Bombing Range. I'm pretty sure it's nowhere I want to live on a permanent basis. I did enjoy the feral grapefruits, though. They were as sweet as oranges.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Here's another problem that we had at Alco cabinets in Oak Grove , Missouri. Richard had a dual 55 gallon barrel DC system on the side ohf the shop. Each time it filled the barrels , usually Friday he took them lose and dumped them next to the rail road tracks at tge rear of the property. The railroad department didn't say anything because he smoothed it out, but surrounding neighbors complained about the possibility of a termite problem. The cut sent an official letter stating the removal of all dust contents on the property. He had to start dumping them in the dumpster with the wood scraps..


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

My buddy, the custom door maker has a one-man-shop. His dust collection is run by a 10 HP blower motor with a 6 filter bag setup. The more filter bag area the better the airflow and his 42" wide belt sander makes a ton of fine dust. None the less, his shop is still covered with a layer of powdery dust.
For a home shop, it will always be a compromise between air flow and air cleanliness. We can't stack Wynn filters ($$$$), line up 6 filter bags, and often can't exhaust the dust laden air to the outside. As many modifications have been done to the 2HP Harbor Freight DC as have been done to a small block Chevy.
Cyclones have their pro and cons, most requiring a 5 HP blower and large impeller to move the required CFM at a fast enough velocity to trap the very fine dust.

There is loads of info from Bill Pentz. It's not easy reading and can be done over weeks or even months as in my case:




__





Dust Collection Research - Beginner's Corner


This site helps small shop workers understand the risks from fine dust exposure and how to effectively protect themselves and those close to them from airborne dust hazards. Fine dust is so extensively studied that researchers call it PM short for particle material. A Google search on PM Health...



billpentz.com









__





Dust Collection Research - Ducting


This site helps small shop workers understand the risks from fine dust exposure and how to effectively protect themselves and their families from airborne dust hazards. Fine dust is so extensively studied that researchers call it PM short for particle material. A Google search on PM Health Risks...



billpentz.com





The single stage home shop dust collector are a pretty simple device.
There's a motor driving a blower fan which is directed into a bag or cannister filter.
There 's a separator inline with the air flow which allows the larger particles to drop into the collection bag or drum.
Essentially 5 pieces of hardware, often made very similarly from brand to brand.
A two stage system just adds a separator or cyclone in line with the dust intake.

A good shop vac directed at the primary source of dust on small power tools, miter saws, bandsaws, ROS's, radial arm saws and over the blade on table saws is the single best home shop dust collection device you can get for the money. Typically, under $100.00.
There are 4 shop vacs in my shop with either a foot switch or a remote for easy ON and OFF. In addition, there are 2 Jet 1100's on mobile bases for the larger chips from the jointer and planer and for the drum sanders which are dust generating monsters, also on remotes.

There is no one easy solution, unfortunately, so we end up doing the best we can (afford) with what we have.
The cheapest way to breathe in the cleanest air is to wear an efficient face mask or respirator.
The overhead air filtration unit is another fairly cheap way to scrub the shop air.
As to modifying the Harbor Freight DC unit, just go to You Tube and search that:


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Modify+Harbor+Freight+dust+collector


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

BigCountry79 said:


> It's a garage. THERE IS NO HEAT.


No heat, no Carbon Monoxide potential? I'd say go for it. Great way to not have to worry about filtering. Just be prepared to sweat and shiver... Kind of the old school way.


----------



## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

dbhost said:


> No heat, no Carbon Monoxide potential? I'd say go for it. Great way to not have to worry about filtering. Just be prepared to sweat and shiver... Kind of the old school way.


Before I gave up due to completely inadequate power, I considered setting up shop in my detached garage. In Missouri, the lack of HVAC means massive swings in humidity through the year. I'd be concerned about how that would impact anything I stored or built out there that wasn't already super dry and stable.

Of course.. there are still issues in a basement. Before I insulated the metal HVAC pipes and plenum in my basement shop, the air coming in was so humid that the it condensed on the metal and literally "rained" on my workbench and table saw.

Ah.. Humid Continental.. it's not just a climate region, it's a state of mind...


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

A considerable increase, from 12.1 to 17.5 in CFMs from or those who don't know about it OR haven't done it yet, here's the upgrade on the blower fan:


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Roybrew said:


> I never thought about pulling the furnace and water heater gasses back down their flu pipes. That's interesting and could be dangerous.
> 
> I was thinking more of what it would look like outside where saw dust is being blown out, or maybe most of the dust gets contained in the bag. Just thinking.
> 
> Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


If you've got a proper cyclone separator and don't like the barrel get full, you might have a little more fine dust show up on the bushes and siding that an afternoon rain should take care of...


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> F
> 
> A considerable increase, from 12.1 to 17.5 in CFMs from or those who don't know about it OR haven't done it yet, here the upgrade on the blower fan:


I did that mod using the Wen impeller and the gains were massive. Like a totally different class machine.


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

RepairmanJack said:


> Before I gave up due to completely inadequate power, I considered setting up shop in my detached garage. In Missouri, the lack of HVAC means massive swings in humidity through the year. I'd be concerned about how that would impact anything I stored or built out there that wasn't already super dry and stable.
> 
> Of course.. there are still issues in a basement. Before I insulated the metal HVAC pipes and plenum in my basement shop, the air coming in was so humid that the it condensed on the metal and literally "rained" on my workbench and table saw.
> 
> Ah.. Humid Continental.. it's not just a climate region, it's a state of mind...


My shop is in coastal Texas and there is no way I would vent outside due to the fact I have AC in my garage workshop. The AC struggles to keep the garage cool enough to work in during late summer. Heat not so much of an issue here most of the year but last February was a bear. Old Coleman Catalytic heater kept most things from freezing but I lost a half gallon of Titebond 2 due to it turning into a unpourable goo after the freeze and thaw... 

When I do need heat in the shop normally, I just kick on one of those oil filled radiators. Even with lows in the 20s, the shop stays in the low / mid 60s.

Again, can't afford to just blow that heated air outside.

So Wynn filter for the uh, win for me. Yes pun intended... 

My wife and I keep going back and forth on keeping the garage workshop, or moving me to a dedicated outbuilding. IF I did the outbuilding, I would build it with a, well, semi outdoor bumpout that is fully enclosed, and has return air with a pair of filters along with the air compressor. Would mostly need remove on / off switches for them. That can be done by switching outlets for each... And again, think of it as being air double, or even triple filtered before it comes back into the shop. but it would be returned to the shop to keep from pulling in outside air.

Not everyones situation is the same though. Honestly if I still lived in the Willamette Valley, the summers are mild enough, and winters warm enough, I would just go ahead and blow the fines out the window...


----------



## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

woodnthings said:


> A considerable increase, from 12.1 to 17.5 in CFMs from or those who don't know about it OR haven't done it yet, here's the upgrade on the blower fan:





dbhost said:


> I did that mod using the Wen impeller and the gains were massive. Like a totally different class machine.


The increase is not something I would call considerable or massive. More like a modest improvement:


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

HoytC said:


> The increase is not something I would call considerable or massive. More like a modest improvement:
> View attachment 435372


In fairness, the upgrade was done along with removing a 55 gallon Thien separator. and adding a neutral vane. But even with the Thien separator still in place the increase was considerable... The number you show for Original matches what I was seeing. My anemometer can't measure fast enough to capture after with the Thien removed, but after the math was figured, with the Thien in place, I was pullin gclose to 780CFM at the inlet of the separator.

I would LOVE to borrow an anemometer that would read fast enough to get a good measurement with the Thien removed.


----------



## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

I didn't see it posted, but folks need to be reminded exhausting outside, especially with a high CFM machine, creates a negative pressure that could draw stove exhaust in or could even damage a building. 

I'll take my felt bags over canvas everyday, for a recirculating system. That's how I converted one of my small collectors from a dust pump to something more on the same of an air scrubber. At least to the level of one micron, once the bag loaded up.



RepairmanJack said:


> My shop is in my basement - so it's heated/cooled. I've tried to thermally insulated it from the rest of the house. I'd be interested in hearing any comments on how external exhaust has impacted heating and cooling bills.
> 
> I was unaware that exhausting to the exterior could result in such a significant improvement in performance. It makes sense. My Powermatic PM1300TX isn't something I want to "hack," but I'd have no qualms about hacking a HFT collector with that sort of performance boost.


----------



## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

On hacking a Harbor Freight collector, I have one I bought for lawn clean up. When not vacuuming pine cones through a Super Dust Deputy cyclone, it tends my miter.
It was doing just so so with a 20' hose, for the pine cone experiment. Thought I'd be smart and upgrade to a Rikon impeller. It works better on the miter now, but worse for pine cone projects. In other words, my modification made it less a high pressure vacuum and more a high volume dust collector.

I note discussions about collectors focus more on the volume than on velocity. So the impact of the impeller change on the ability of the system to vacuum up the brick laying on the floor isn't discussed in detail.


----------



## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

I posted above, but will again, now that I found this post:

I have three dust collectors. Two are "four bag" units (one with canisters and one with bags). The third I bought to run off my Super Dust Deputy cyclone, to clean pine cones up in the yard. Oddly, it did fairly well with a crap Delta, one horse collector and a twenty foot hose. So, I did the common sense thing and bought a HF collector to increase efficiency. Eh, yeah, it did, a bit. I fixed that though, and installed a Rikon impeller. 

Hmm. It works better for the miter now, where it hides during off pine cone duty cycles. Not so much, IT SEEMS, for pine cone vacuum projects. Less velocity, it seems, but more CFM, absent a motor change, a hose reduction, or something to crank up the velocity, along side the increased CFM.




woodnthings said:


> A considerable increase, from 12.1 to 17.5 in CFMs from or those who don't know about it OR haven't done it yet, here's the upgrade on the blower fan:


----------



## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

dbhost said:


> My shop is in coastal Texas and there is no way I would vent outside due to the fact I have AC in my garage workshop. The AC struggles to keep the garage cool enough to work in during late summer. Heat not so much of an issue here most of the year but last February was a bear. Old Coleman Catalytic heater kept most things from freezing but I lost a half gallon of Titebond 2 due to it turning into a unpourable goo after the freeze and thaw...
> 
> When I do need heat in the shop normally, I just kick on one of those oil filled radiators. Even with lows in the 20s, the shop stays in the low / mid 60s.
> 
> ...


An alternative I considered was the attic, because we see the cold and the hot. I could move the "four bag" collectors up into it, box them in (insulated boxes) and just have a pipe back down to a ceiling vent. The intakes would be at Super Dust Deputy cyclones, down in the shop, where they could be emptied easily and regularly.


----------



## TwoThumbsBruce (Feb 13, 2021)

And I thought woodworking made sage, wise, mellowed men... Come'on, guys ... lets share and help each other in a positive way...

I can relate to the HF DC and several of the other items and problems. I got the HF DC around 2010 and I noticed that fine particles would blow out from the bag. I learned that those fine particles are the stuff that get in your lungs... and that can't be good, so when I retired and moved to Florida, I got a $2000 Jet JCDC-2 Cyclone Dust Collector with 2HP and 230 volts, and that works much better but in my crowded 3-car garage it's sort of infexible. Tried a Dust Deputy with an everyday ShopVac and that worked well - cheap, fast, and excellent dust control. So, got a larger 6.5 HP ShopVac with DD, and today my Jet is dedicated to the table saw (with three capped ports a-waiting), and the two DD used with jointer, planer, and cleanup. You guys caught my eye about the Rikon 14" bandsaw, as that's my newest toy being assembled. It has a 4" or 6" port, indicating heavy sawdust so I'm going re-organization and try to maximize dust collection effectiveness. I think I have leaks on the PVC pipes that feed the Jet, but it's a big job to make corrections. I'm pleased with the ShopVac and DD setup - inexpensive (relatively!), and effective. I use HomeDepot's orange buckets for the dust bucket and, because suction will collapse the bucket walls without the support, I made a simple internal support out of wood and use with no bag. 

I still have the HF motor - so maybe will build something with a 4" Super Dust Deputy Deluxe with a 40-gallon barrel that I have laying around... 

By the way, I have a small compressor that's very handy and my cleanup process involves blowing dust off tabletops, etc., sweeping up the obvious, then opening the garage doors and blowing any remaining dust out the door.

I'm very open to ideas and success stories...

Bruce


----------



## highfigh (Oct 8, 2017)

Rebelwork said:


> I unsderstand.. heats cheap, who cares..
> 
> Nothing wrong with learning something..
> 
> My wife informed me this afternoon the electric bill was $80? More this month. Know why? Running additional heat in the garage. Do you think I should do a bit of maintenance on the garage door seals, or should it matter?


Good thing you're not using natural gas- the price for electricity is up about 6%, but natural gas is up more than 30%.


----------



## highfigh (Oct 8, 2017)

BigCountry79 said:


> It's a garage. THERE IS NO HEAT.


Maybe not in your garage but in Wisconsin during Winter, working in the cold sucks.


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I know the northern folks will laugh at this, but we've been below freezing now for the last 10 hours, which is rare here. I put the little oil filled radiator on in the shop on low last night. Checked the thermometer out there this morning, 62 deg F. So no issues iwth finishes and glues freezing.


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

KellyCraig said:


> An alternative I considered was the attic, because we see the cold and the hot. I could move the "four bag" collectors up into it, box them in (insulated boxes) and just have a pipe back down to a ceiling vent. The intakes would be at Super Dust Deputy cyclones, down in the shop, where they could be emptied easily and regularly.


You are still moving conditioned / heated / cooled air from a conditioned to an unconditioned space. Not sure how this could possibly be helpful...


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Is the HF DC 4" flex hose still as good as it use to be?


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

KellyCraig said:


> An alternative I considered was the attic, because we see the cold and the hot. * I could move the "four bag" collectors up into it, box them in (insulated boxes)* and just have a pipe back down to a ceiling vent. The intakes would be at Super Dust Deputy cyclones, down in the shop, where they could be emptied easily and regularly.





dbhost said:


> You are still moving conditioned / heated / cooled air from a conditioned to an *unconditioned *space. Not sure how this could possibly be helpful...


With the bags in insulated enclosures, there should be little heat loss, just space saved.
That extra space would be used for other operations or storage.
I'm in favor of the idea, as long as the bags are of high filtration levels, or low micron count, 1 micron or less.
Otherwise you haven't gained that much. It's hard not to lose track of the initial goal which is to filter the fine dust out of the shop air. LOL.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

highfigh said:


> Good thing you're not using natural gas- the price for electricity is up about 6%, but natural gas is up more than 30%.


I use natural gas and electricity for heat and air conditioning in the shop. Gas keeps it at 58-65. Electricity up to 75...


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

woodnthings said:


> With the bags in insulated enclosures, there should be little heat loss, just space saved.
> That extra space would be used for other operations or storage.
> I'm in favor of the idea, as long as the bags are of high filtration levels, or low micron count, 1 micron or less.
> Otherwise you haven't gained that much. It's hard not to lose track of the initial goal which is to filter the fine dust out of the shop air. LOL.


Maybe I missed it, are you filtering and returning the air from the above mentioned enclosure in the attic back to the workspace? That would make sense...

I have considered, and still am considering moving my shop out of my 18x20 shared space garage to a 10x20 dedicated outbuilding. To free up space I would put the DC in an exterior enclosure / insulated with a filtered return duct. Nothing in the covernants and restrictions against a wooden box after all... 

Same situation with the air compressor as well.


----------



## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

Keep in mind, not all dust collection bags are made equal. I'm guessing the canvas ones that came on my two four-bag collectors were little better than 50 micron dust pumps. The FIRST change I made was, I switched the lower dust pump bags out for plastic ZERO micron bags. True that the swap cut down on surface area, but, oh well. Other systems went that route, or similar, for good reason.

The second was to buy after market felt bags with good ratings. Not just from the manufacturer but from other sources too. The third was to install canisters on one of the collectors, along with all the mods it took to do that.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST problems we run into, but many or most don't know, is that efficiency improving plate between the collection bag and the filter bag or canisters. You can clean the filters until proverbial hell freezes over, and you'll gain little. I discovered this with a little 1-1/2 HP Jet I've since sold. Cleaning the filter didn't seem to gain much, so I pulled the can. There was a coffee can of fines resting on the separation disk. By shaking the collector, hard, it fell on through. Then when I started it again, there was a HUGE improvement.

Before switching to shaking the sin out of the collector, after cleaning the bags and cartridges, all the stuff resting on top the separator plate just got sucked right back up into the filter, putting me right back where I started.

Many brag about their super filtering, even as dust can be seen around joints of pipes and even on the collector itself. These need to be sealed with the foil tape and silicone caulk at the collector joints, or you have the equivalent of 100 micron dust pumps.


----------



## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

Don't forget, you can get an inkling of where you are with filter condition and draw by making your own. Permanently mounted, it'll tell you when your filters need to be cleaned, though it wont tell you the CFM.

I installed a magnehelic gauge between the fan and filter of my HVAC so I could monitor filter condition. I love it. I can tell, at a glance, the condition of my filter, and can even see which brands throttle the system down.

Before, I had a manomotor on the HVAC system. It worked, but the magnahelic gauge is much nicer to read.

The collector would peg the magnehelic gauge or suck the fluid from the manometer. To limit this, putting an IV type limiting valve in line with the meter and the hose at the input of the collector can reduce the vacuum enough to make them usable.

I even noted a couple of those breathing exercise thingamajigs and other medical devices have potential for giving an indication of air movement.

These aren't anemometers, but they are cheap and useful items that can be made with a length of clear hose, some colored oil or water and a small valve.









dbhost said:


> In fairness, the upgrade was done along with removing a 55 gallon Thien separator. and adding a neutral vane. But even with the Thien separator still in place the increase was considerable... The number you show for Original matches what I was seeing. My anemometer can't measure fast enough to capture after with the Thien removed, but after the math was figured, with the Thien in place, I was pullin gclose to 780CFM at the inlet of the separator.
> 
> I would LOVE to borrow an anemometer that would read fast enough to get a good measurement with the Thien removed.


----------



## KellyCraig (Feb 12, 2021)

Read my post again. I said "insulated" when I talked about a box in the attic.

Trust me, as the guy who insulated my shop, and who worked in it in the zero and 115 degree temps before I did, I have an inkling of the value of insulation. While I did not, specifically, mention it, the housing would be covered in insulation for 2x6 walls between an inner and outer wall, just like my shop walls.

Said another way, if it works for my house and shop, and every other house and shop around, it just might work in the attic of my shop too. It will have to deal with higher temps during the summer, as much as 120 degrees, so I may want to add some more ventilation to the GENERAL attic area.





dbhost said:


> You are still moving conditioned / heated / cooled air from a conditioned to an unconditioned space. Not sure how this could possibly be helpful...


----------



## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Got it. Missed the insluated space. At that point you are pulling to an insulated space, and returning to the insulated workspace. Kind of along the lines of what i Have in mind if / when I go to a dedicated outbuilding workshop. 

I'd be losing space, but it wouldn't have to be share that space with camping equipment, the water softener system, the deep freezer etc...

Plus, moving the DC, and air compressor out to a separate bump out / enclosure / box saves me 12 sq / ft inside the shop, and allows me to orient the DC better to minimize odd bends just to get over to a wall... Oddly enough. Probably not a bad idea just to use a hunk of 8" or 10" ducting. And configure it with a filter box.

I couldn't agree more on insuring your seams are sealed up. And not just for the reasons listed, but also to insure higher efficiency of the system as you will only be pulling from points you intend to.


----------

