# Starting a hand tool collection questions...



## judgment (May 22, 2014)

I am new to woodworking and I think I want to focus primarily on learning to use hand tools as much as possible. It seems to me that once you know how to do things by hand it is easier to choose to use power tools as needed or desired, but the same does not apply in reverse. *What do you think?*

Here are a couple ideas I am wrestling with currently; perhaps you guys can help point me in the right direction.

1.)*Reference materials.* Does anyone have any suggestions for books or whatever specifically designed to help new woodworkers learn the basics? I am already reading "The Technique of Furniture Making".

I am particularly interested in anything that would help me make a plan for putting together a tool collection over time that will be progressively more complete and useful while letting me get started with simple projects sooner rather than later. If that makes any sense. 

2.)*New tools vs. Used tools?* Aside from the obvious monetary reasons, do you feel there are true advantages to trying to put together a collection of older tools as opposed to buying everything from Lie-Nielsen?

Also, I have learned that there is a collector's market for many of these older tools. While I like to look at pictures and drool as much as the next guy, I'm not in a position to buy antiques at twice the price of new tools just for the sake of coolness. 

Garage sales, Flea Markets, etc., on the other hand, might be a viable option.

edit: 

I forgot to add that I like to buy things once and buy 'em right whenever possible. Whether that means looking for tools that are older than my Dad, or buying things one at time off the internet as I can afford it, well, whatever works.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm not much of a Schwarz fan but Anarchist Tool Chest is likely the best one book starter for you.

Regards,

Jean
www.creoleproject.com


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

Some days, I don't need the scream of a power miter saw for one or two cuts.
I don't own an expensive hand saw but, I get it done. I needed to make 2 bevelled cuts, 6" wide and 4" deep with a fairly precise stop. Did you know that you can wreck a hand saw carving soapstone (steatite) and hit a hidden band of iron pyrite crystals?

As in wood carving, the project can almost dictate the selection of tools.
Such as a couple of very simple bookcases to sort out the mess in the deep freezer. One is shelves, the other is a weird little thing to hold 6 baked pies.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Letting the project dictate your tool purchases is the smartest advise ever given for someone new to woodworking/hand tools. If you had $5000 to drop we could come up with a great list for you and you could have a shop that people would drool over. However if you did that, I'd guess that about 90% of those tools will be seldom if ever used.

New vs used is often a case of personal preference and budget. Most people have a mix. I think that buying classic planes and refurbishing them is a valuable learning experience that teaches you how and why to set up a plane. You don't get that if you buy a brand new plane that works perfectly out of the box (although few do). 

Small boxes are great for first projects. So many different options for joinery (dovetail, finger, splined miter) and you are dealing with small (and inexpensive) amounts of wood. Make a half dozen small boxes (and get just the tools you need for that) and you will have the skills to make many different items. As your skills advance, so will your need (and desire) for more tools that you will need to complete more complex projects.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

I'm right with Jean in Swartz's book. He usually has the right message, but a terrible delivery style.

Although the monetary aspect of used tools can be a big selling factor, there are other benefits. Restoring a piece, whether it's a hand plane or a table saw is one of the best ways to learn how it works.

I also love to find the history. It to can help understand the tool and why and how it's used.


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## herrwood (Mar 23, 2014)

Here are 2 links that have some information on old tools. 


http://www.georgesbasement.com/

http://oldtoolheaven.com/links/links.htm


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## mavawreck (Nov 26, 2011)

Whats up with the Schwarz dislike? I admittedly haven't read any of his books but the lost art blog is my favorite. I read it every monday morning to prep for the work week.

On reference materials - blogs, forums and articles are my choice. Books get expensive and bulky (in print format). Online references tend to be shorter and more fitting for my attention span. 

New vs used tools - mixed bag. I agree with buying as needed. What holds me back more than anything these days is not having a proper workbench. I'm fortunate in having a plethora of beautiful vintage tools but not having a proper place to work is quite frustrating. Buy a few basic saws and chisels new and build yourself a bench. I believe the naked woodworker is putting out a DVD sometime soon where he buys the tools and lumber necessary to build a basic bench over the course of a weekend at a box store and tool meet. Consider buying what you need for new or already refurbed for the time being, bargain shopping for the items on your wish list where it might be less frustrating to start with a project tool.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

As far as the New vs. Old debate goes, I've found that generally you can fine older tools with better quality for less price, but there's a lot more elbow grease needed. For example, I've got a few old planes, a number 7 and a number 4(maybe 5), bot h of which were $10. The things are solid cast iron back when manufacturers didn't skimp on castings, but they had a fair bit of rust and needed a lot of TLC. It would've been easier to buy some brand new ones, but quality ain't cheap


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## Brian T. (Dec 19, 2012)

One more rant and I'm outta here:
One serious mistake is to buy a "kit" of wood working tools, as opposed to buying one at a time from open stock.

Yeah sure, some times you have to buy a set of sized mortice chisels with no choice. So be it. 

But, what will you cut? What will you make? The companies put those kits together, hoping to be all things to all people. I do not believe that wood working happens that way. 

Wood carving sure as Hello doesn't. I can agonize for 2 months about buying a gouge only to learn that I need a 30oz, lead-core mallet for the push. Then I can buy pairs of tools a week apart, knowing full well how they will be used.

I have no heart to be condescending. Experience from one project to another matters far more that the (free) advice.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

I am biased on this one "Old vs. New"..?

Do not know your level or experience on sharpening, even some of the new tools need it. And if they do not, they soon will.

Lot of good videos and articles on the how too are available with a little research. So with that being said..you may want to pick up an old block plane to practice on, and a old or cheaper chisel also.

So just starting out, "New" may not be the way to go, just a thought.

I would put some sharpening equipment on your list though.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I swear I've written a post on this, but here are my thoughts in abbreviated format.

First, books. There are a few books I highly recommend.

1) "The Anarchist's Toolchest", by Christopher Schwarz. I happen to like Schwarz's writing style, though a lot of people don't. I can understand that, I just don't agree. The most important part of this book for a hand tool beginner is the descriptions of the tools, how they work, and how to choose them.

2) "The New Traditional Woodworker" by Jim Tolpin. I wrote an in-depth review here, which might be helpful. He gives a lot of overview on tools, then walks you through a few basic projects. They're all shop tools, and things you'll use a lot (a good straightedge, shooting board, bench hooks, things like that), and a good place to practice technique.

3) "Working Wood 1 & 2: The Artisan Course" by Paul Sellers. Paul is a professional furniture maker, and has been for... forty years? I think? Something like that, anyway. His book has a lot of really good information in it, and some good practice projects, but his take on some things is... unusual. This is the one I'm most torn on recommending, because I like the way he works, and his techniques work for me, but his ideas and preferences are cast in stone, in a very "If you're not doing it my way you're doing it wrong" sort of way. Read it, but remember that he's not the ultimate authority. Actually, do that will all the books I recommend.

4) "The Joiner and Cabinet Maker", by Anonymous, Christopher Schwarz and Joel Moskowitz. This is on my list just because I think it's a fun book. It's got some good historical information, and the last section has a fair amount of how-to knowledge in it. I wouldn't call this required reading, but if you can afford it, I recommend picking up a copy.


As to tools... My personal belief is that old vs new is down to preference and the sliding scale of time vs money. Some have more money than time: those people should buy new wherever possible. Some have more time than money: for them, buying used and doing refurbishing work is a good way to get high-quality tools without spending a fortune. Personally, I split the difference. I have a new carcasse saw from Veritas, but a used tenon saw made by Disston. Most of my planes are old (some of them very old), but I'm about to buy a brand new router plane from Veritas because I haven't been able to find a used one in good condition at a good price. My brace is old, as are some of the bits, but other bits are new because I need them quickly and couldn't find good used ones. My hand saws are old, because I inherited some and stumbled over others at a flea market: they basically needed light rust removal and sharpening, and they were cheap, so I bought them.

Short version, I think you should buy new where speed is important, or where it's hard to find high quality used. For me, that means things like drill bits, screwdrivers, and anything you need within a few days. Other than that, I think used tools tend to offer better value for the money: generally I'll buy used if it costs less than 1/2 what I'd pay new. That's all personal preference, though, and neither way is really wrong.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Not too much to add, but I agree that you will need a bench of some kind. You can get by in power tool land with just a table or something, but my hand planes were much less pleasurable to use until I made a proper bench. I made a fancy English one from Schwarz's blue book, but really anything solid and heavy will do to start since if you don't have power tools it will be hard to build a complicated bench with hand tools and no bench already. I've got a variety of mid grade power tools, but my understanding is that if you want to go hardcore hand tool the most tempting power tool will be a bandsaw.


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Gilgaron said:


> Not too much to add, but I agree that you will need a bench of some kind. You can get by in power tool land with just a table or something, but my hand planes were much less pleasurable to use until I made a proper bench. I made a fancy English one from Schwarz's blue book, but really anything solid and heavy will do to start since if you don't have power tools it will be hard to build a complicated bench with hand tools and no bench already. I've got a variety of mid grade power tools, but my understanding is that if you want to go hardcore hand tool the most tempting power tool will be a bandsaw.


This is a good point. A bench is essential, but it needn't be complicated or expensive. The Paul Sellers book I pointed to has a good bench that can be built out of construction lumber with hand tools. If you want to add a circular saw, you could build something like this one, which I built out of plywood and douglas fir. Or keep to hand tools only, and make the top out of laminated 2x4.

In either case, the most expensive part is likely to be the vise: on my bench, it cost about as much as the wood did. You can get a much cheaper one and still have it work, though.


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## judgment (May 22, 2014)

Thanks, everyone for the many good suggestions, reading material and online resources. I've already gotten a couple of the books that were mentioned and looked, at least briefly so far, at everything that has been suggested. 




Robson Valley said:


> One more rant and I'm outta here:
> One serious mistake is to buy a "kit" of wood working tools, as opposed to buying one at a time from open stock.
> 
> Yeah sure, some times you have to buy a set of sized mortice chisels with no choice. So be it.
> ...


Robson Valley, most of this I believe I understand - except for the part about being condescending. Feel free to be condescending if you like. Attempting to detect condescension is one way to figure out when I'm saying something really stupid.  I try to keep most of my really dumb thoughts inside my head, but one is bound to escape now and then. You won't hurt my feelings. 

I heartily agree with your point about experience vs. tongue wagging. Unfortunately, there are mitigating factors that affect what percentage of my time I can spend pursuing this hobby. Lucky for me resources like the ones mentioned in this thread, and this forum itself, are available - and give me a way to pursue my sawdust-adjacent goals while chained to a laptop. :thumbsup:


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## judgment (May 22, 2014)

I just finished "The Anarchist's Toolchest" by Christopher Schwarz. Of course, I shouldn't say 'finished' as I am quite certain I will be referring back to it continuously for a long time. I really like Mr. Schwarz' writing and thought process. I feel like I understand the mindset of a traditional woodworker a little more, and much of what I read gels with my own thoughts on these things. 

I'm planning in picking up "The New Traditional Woodworker" by Jim Tolpin next...


Someone suggested that I not accept anything I read as gospel, and I like this sentiment. I try very hard to be open minded and understand where people are coming from; then take bits and pieces that I think are right for me and blend it into my own way of thinking. Of course, I imagine with more knowledge and experience my perspective will change quite a bit... Can't ever see exactly what's coming around the next corner...

Thanks again all.




...On my dang phone


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

Yup. Remember that each of these people is only one writer, and there are almost as many methods of completing a task as there are woodworkers trying to complete it.


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## mako1 (Jan 25, 2014)

You have some real good advice here.TR65's was one that impressed me.I had a custom furniture and cabinet shop for years and had some very high end machinery but also like and used plenty of hand tools.
The line"let the job dictate the tool you will buy" is the best advice IMHO.
I always bought used Stanley Bailey hand planes at auctions and such.I did own a couple Lie-Nelsons and they are very nice but could buy several Bailys for what one cost and tuned correct would do a fine job.Also made some of my own planes in the James Krenov style.
If you want to learn joinery I would first buy a good quality backsaw and a good set of chisels.Don't skimp on either.I had several high quality antique backsaws but still used japenese pull saws the most for joinery so you may want both as I did.
Get a good marking gauge and bevel square and square also.You will need these for any kind of joinery.


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