# Widespread threat to western Lodgepole Pine



## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110228121452.htm


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## Upnort (Jan 9, 2011)

SteveEI,
Please, Science Daily! Pretty much everyone knows by now that GW is the scam of our time. You send us to big Al's left wing rag.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I read but did not agree with the article yesterday myself - but instead of criticizing Steve for liberal politics I decided to thank him for sharing the article. Anyone can agree or disagree with it. 







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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Thank you Tex, and I have a followup question for you.

We know there's huge swaths of beetle killed trees, and recent outbreaks from New Mexico to BC Canada. I mean, it's hard to dispute that when you can go up and touch dead trees and count bugs, or just drive certain highways and see stands of dead beetle-killed forest. Then there's the common sense notion that if more bugs survive the winter to get a jump on spring egg laying their population will go up year by year. And if we are willing to trust government, industry, and academic foresters that count bugs we know the winter survival rate of the beetle has been increasing. They were looking at that in the 80s when I attend the U of MT school of forestry, and they're still doing it. 

Since its pretty hard to argue with any of that, I would be interested to know what part of the article you disagreed with?

Steve El


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Beetle info from US Forest Service:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPwhQoY6BdkOyoCAPkATlA!/?ss=110299&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=FSE_003853&navid=091000000000000&pnavid=null&ttype=main&pname=Rocky%20Mtn.%20Bark%20Beetle%20-%20Home


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

SteveEl said:


> Since its pretty hard to argue with any of that, I would be interested to know what part of the article you disagreed with?
> 
> Steve El


Well, anyone can agree with, or disagree with anyone else don't you think? 

But what I disagree with it the politicizing of the natural phenomenon of earth's cycles for the enrichment of international banking and business empires, that buy off politicians who then pass onerous regulations and taxation to keep small business from competing with the big corporations. 

Global warming or climate change or whatever you want to call it does exist, but _man-made_ global warming or climate change does not exist. The reason big corporations, and governments, and the central banks of the world all push that agenda is because _natural _ global warming cannot be laid at the feet of man if it was thought to be part of mother nature's inexorable grand cycle; patterns of climate change. 

To politicize it and use it to amass even more power and wealth for the few, at the expense of, and to the detriment of, our society is morally wrong. Right down to saying that beetle migration is due to _man made_ global warming. That's what I disagree with. 






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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> Well, anyone can agree with, or disagree with anyone else don't you think?


You bet.... if you got the price of admission..... disagreement has to have a basis that is at least reasonably plausible. Otherwise its not disagreement but a politicizing way of not communicating.

I agree we're among friends, Tex, and in that spirit, you say you disagree with the article for this reason



TexasTimbers said:


> what I disagree with it the politicizing of the natural phenomenon of earth's cycles for the enrichment of international banking and business empires, that buy off politicians who then pass onerous regulations and taxation to keep small business from competing with the big corporations.


I like my friends to challenge my thinking, and in that same spirit, may I please ask what paragraph you were thinking about when you wrote that? 

SteveEl


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

I wonder since they studied the beetle living through winter, if they have studied the northern range of lodge pole extending into previous harsher climates where the beetle can't survive as well. Or the matter of a lot of lodge pole pine forests are past their prime and old since they are a pioneer species that mostly occur over forest fire burn sites and the effect of those fires on the beetles. I would like to see a study of what is taking its place in the forest, nature always fills the niche albeit with something we may not like as much. It was a very short article condensed from a 16 page scientific paper and you gotta love this part as the source: "The above story is reprinted (with editorial adaptations by Science_Daily_ staff) from materials provided by *Oregon State University*."


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