# Can this plane be identified?



## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

This plane is 14" x 2 3/8" wide. It has a few markings like "Made is USA" on the front of the sole and on the blade.









It also has a "U" on the frog and cap iron.









There are also these marks inside the sole.









Any way to get any information on this? Thanks very much.


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## mavawreck (Nov 26, 2011)

http://lumberjocks.com/lightvet/blog/11013

Defiance?


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I don't know what name it was sold under, but based on what I can see of the lateral adjustment lever it looks like it was manufactured by Millers Falls. Here is a site with images of lateral adjustment lever designs used by the major manufacturers.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Hi Tim, that is a great resource, thanks! Here is a better shot of that lever.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Not of Millers Falls manufacture then. It looks similar to the Sargent picture.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

It can be identified - it is your plane. :laughing:

Sorry I could not resist.

So many of the manufacturers made planes for other companies, other brands, etc.

There are hints but not definitive for me.

The lateral adjustment lever looks like Sargent.

The tote looks like classic "Craftsman" based on the flat sides and lack or toe screw.

Lack of frog adjustment screw is not definitive.

I think this is a no-name plane manufactured for e.g., a hardware store or some other company to sell at lower price than the name brands.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

I'm going to agree with a defiance. They were a cheaper line made by Stanley and as far as I know the only one with the half bent over lat adjuster. The flat side on the tote is another contributing factor. That probably had a sticker on the tote that fell off years ago.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Thank You Don. I don't like to sand so as a new woodworker I thought I would get a plane to do some primary smoothing.....but I couldn't figure out why I kept getting outbid on eBay, even on the old rusty, clunky looking ones.....after a few days of plane research I get it now.......:laughing:....now I'm worried about getting "hooked" myself! Dave


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## mavawreck (Nov 26, 2011)

timetestedtools said:


> I'm going to agree with a defiance. They were a cheaper line made by Stanley and as far as I know the only one with the half bent over lat adjuster. The flat side on the tote is another contributing factor. That probably had a sticker on the tote that fell off years ago.


I had a Fulton with a bent over lateral but the iron was stamped.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

mavawreck said:


> I had a Fulton with a bent over lateral but the iron was stamped.


I think Fultons were bent like Sargents (that's who made them). Defiance's look more like wings.

The first picture looks like a Sargent, the last one like a defiance, so it could be the picture as well.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Well, after reading Don's blog about restoring these old planes I got all confident and inspired and plunked the iron stuff in an electrolysis bath. I figured if I was going to use it I should get it in the best shape I can. The two painted pieces didn't look too bad so I am just going to scrub them up and flatten them. The knob was easy using Don's method but the bigger handle at the back isn't any fun at all........what is that purple/red finish anyway. ? I'm committed to striping the wood now though so have to get it done and come up with a finish of some sort. How ever it goes I like doing stuff like this, and if I end up with a usable plane I've made progress and had some fun to boot.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

adot45 said:


> what is that purple/red finish anyway. ? I'm committed to striping the wood now though so have to get it done and come up with a finish of some sort. How ever it goes I like doing stuff like this, and if I end up with a usable plane I've made progress and had some fun to boot.


yea that red primer is a pain.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

adot45 said:


> what is that purple/red finish anyway. ? I'm committed to striping the wood now though so have to get it done and come up with a finish of some sort.


As you are observing, some planes have knob and tote painted rather than stain + finish.

Removing the existing paint or finish is not easy. I frequently end up making a replacement knob and / or tote.

It will be difficult to get the tote back to bare wood without losing some of the shape.

Good luck. Good to see you are trying a restoration. :thumbsup:


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Don Yep, a pain describes it pretty well.

Dave You are certainly correct about losing the shape if too aggressive with the sanding. At this point I have my sights set on getting it smooth and just painting both wood parts. 

Thanks to all for the comments


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## BZawat (Sep 21, 2012)

Have any of you guys tried using a chemical stripper & soft bristled brass detail brush to strip knobs & totes?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BZawat said:


> Have any of you guys tried using a chemical stripper & soft bristled brass detail brush to strip knobs & totes?


I use a chemical stripper and then a sanding mop.

I have two water based strippers.

Ready Strip. Home Depot or other local hardware stores.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ready-St...entally-Friendly-65832/100665911#.UiIzBH9gvYU

SOY gel at Woodcraft.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2083445/34092/SOY-Gel-Professional-Paint-Stripper-Quart.aspx

I normally use the Ready Strip since it is less expensive.

Sanding mop for irregular surfaces.
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/fs36999/

The mop works reasonably well. I would be concerned with a brass wire brush, it may take off too much wood.

The strippers need to have the paint/stain scraped off. They soften the finish. This goes easy.

The challenge is that even with stripping and sanding, any dings will still show the finish, and it is very difficult to remove the stain without taking off too much wood in the sanding step.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

*Electrolysis.....Black Magic*

Magic because the rust just goes away but the down side is the black residue that's left behind. It is worth dealing with though. I rinsed the metal parts off in clean water and then put them in white vinegar and scrubbed them with a Scotch-Brite pad and it came off rather easily, I was worried for nothing it turns out. Then I took Never-Dull to them, it really didn't remove much more of anything but I feel it leaves a protective coating on the metal. 









I'm not calling these done yet, this is how they look at this stage. The yellow caste must come from incandescent lighting. Tomorrow I'll run them over the buffer to smarten them up some more. The previously untried rust removal by electrolysis will now be known to me as "Step 1" . Compare this pic to the pics in the 1st post. :thumbsup:


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Ok, so clean-up of this plane is going along nicely and now I'm trying to figure out the best way to finish the wood. Painting is an option I guess but I'm not real inclined to do that. I got most of the purple/red stuff off but am wondering if any of the "plane people" out there have any favorite ways to make these wood pieces look nice again or should I keep sanding?


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

I'd hit it with a few coat of dark Danish oil. Then some BLO then wax. If you want to shine it up some, skip the wax and do some 3-2-1 or straight shellac. (I would stop at the BLO/wax, but I don't care for the shine on my tools)


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

That sounds great Don, Thank You very much!


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

adot45 said:


> I got most of the purple/red stuff off but am wondering if any of the "plane people" out there have any favorite ways to make these wood pieces look nice again or should I keep sanding?


This is the point where I give up trying to use the old gear and make a new knob and tote. I know you will not want to make new.

If you want to re-use these, you can try a dark e.g., walnut stain before Don's finish suggestion.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Thanks Dave. Yes, I want to use the original wood with this plane. Thanks for the replies.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

I don't have a permanent finish on the wood yet but I think you can get an idea of this project.


















Thanks Don for the guide on your blog. Thanks Dave and all others for the help and suggestions. This is a fun project that everyone can do and by restoring a tool so future users can enjoy it makes it all the more worthwhile, at least in my book.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

adot45 said:


> This is a fun project that everyone can do and by restoring a tool so future users can enjoy it makes it all the more worthwhile, at least in my book.


Looking good. I agree it is rewarding to give an old tool a second life. Well worth the effort. :thumbsup:


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Dave Paine said:


> Looking good. I agree it is rewarding to give an old tool a second life. Well worth the effort. :thumbsup:


 
Thanks Dave.....one last question. Is this a jack plane?


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

adot45 said:


> Thanks Dave.....one last question. Is this a jack plane?


 
Its meant to be a Jack plane. To be a true jack, the iron should be sharpened with a camber.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Thank you Don. :thumbsup: I've been reading about them and the grind kept coming up. Then a video I watched said, "If you only get one plane, it should be a jack plane". Good enough excuse to buy another plane I'd say.......


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

adot45 said:


> Then a video I watched said, "If you only get one plane, it should be a jack plane". Good enough excuse to buy another plane I'd say.......


A No. 5, aka Jack was the first hand plane I purchased. I have a lot more these days.

Think about what tasks you want to complete with hand planes to guide you as to which additional hand plane would give you the most benefit and so should be the next purchase.

FYI, the picture below illustrates the slight camber Don mentioned.

This is a Lee Valley picture of the normal straight roller on their Mk II honing guide and the cambered roller they now offer.

I am happy with my No. 5 blades being honed flat.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

adot45 said:


> Thank you Don. :thumbsup: I've been reading about them and the grind kept coming up. Then a video I watched said, "If you only get one plane, it should be a jack plane". Good enough excuse to buy another plane I'd say.......


What that means is you can smooth with a jack plane by having a separate iron. I agree in theory only. In practice, you need a smoother dedicated to the task. IMHO.


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Dave Paine said:


> A No. 5, aka Jack was the first hand plane I purchased. I have a lot more these days.
> 
> Think about what tasks you want to complete with hand planes to guide you as to which additional hand plane would give you the most benefit and so should be the next purchase.
> 
> ...


Hi Dave, So it is the size of the #5 that makes it a jack plane and not the blade? That would explain all the jack planes listed on ebay with flat blades I guess. Thank for the information.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

adot45 said:


> Hi Dave, So it is the size of the #5 that makes it a jack plane and not the blade? That would explain all the jack planes listed on ebay with flat blades I guess. Thank for the information.


Stanley led the way in the plane designations.

The No. 5 was given the name "Jack" as in "Jack of all trades" a LONG time ago. The sole length is 14in and it is a very useful plane.

The blade width can be confusing - since Stanley use the same blade width for several planes.

Initially the No. 4 and No. 5 shared the same blade width - 2in.

The No. 6 and No. 7 shared the same blade width - 2 3/8in

Then Stanley came out with the "in between" plane models, and well, they are just confusing.

Easier to read the details on the Supertools site, which has a lot of useful information.

This is the page for the Stanley No. 1 - No. 8 bench planes, but you can easily navigate to the other Stanley planes from here.

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm#nums4


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## adot45 (Jul 8, 2013)

Boy, that definitely is the Stanley supersite eh?


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

timetestedtools said:


> What that means is you can smooth with a jack plane by having a separate iron. I agree in theory only. In practice, you need a smoother dedicated to the task. IMHO.


In the 1914 carpenters tool box I won at auction, there were two bases that would fit a 5- one was ground flat and the other had a pretty good camber to it. Both were "sweetheart" era blades. The fact that these blades were present do not indicate that the theory worked or not for the prior owner of this box, though it does indicate that folks "back in the day" at least tried it. There are all sorts of variables absent eg what kind of work did he do, was he just too poor to get another, how often did he need the covered blade, what are both straight and cambered present (ie isn't there an iron in the plane? Were both meant for the same plane?) etc etc. 

just thought it was worth noting for historical interest.


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