# Eliminate Sanding with Planer?



## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

I am just getting into woodworking and was wondering if a planer could elminate the need for finish sanding? I have been making something out of poplar and sanding to 220 grit before staining. I make a lot of these. It is a bit tedious to sand. Would a planer elminate the need? If so, how expensive of a planer do I need to get? There are some fairly cheap ones, but I don't want to waste my money if it is not going to get the job done or it is going to break easily.


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## weavilswoodshop (Sep 3, 2010)

If you are buying lumber that has already been surfaced on both sides then thats about what you would get with a shop planer. If you are sanding boards from a sawmill then a small tabletop planer would make the job a lot easier. I personally would never sand to 220 grit if I was staining (150..maybe). I do however sand after I plane but not that much. I use my Dewalt planer quite a bit but usually to resize boards or level glue ups. That being said, I would not be in a position to recommend any one brand. I have never owned anything but a Dewalt.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

First things first... Are you talking hand plane and power thickness planer?

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*use a card scraper*

Card scrapers were used in fine furniture making for the last century to achieve a smooth as glass finish. 

http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00007.asp

Any planer will leave tiny divots where each blade takes a bite out of the wood surface. They are there even if you can't see them in the raw wood, but put a glossy finish on it and they will really show up.


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. I am talking about a power planer.

Perhaps, though I should be having a different discussion. I know poplar is not the best for staining, but I liked it's other properties so I use it. Anyway, should I not be sanding to 220 grit? I am just tryig to get an even stain or at least the best I can using poplar.

Please keep in mind I am very new to this. I am slowly buying tools, but started with just a drill press and belt/disc sander. I am tying to make production as easy as possible.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

To get an even stain on Poplar, I recommend using a gel stain. The stuff comes out of the can like pudding and works well on many hard to stain woods.

No planner will ever totally remove the need for sanding. A scraper will produce a smooth surface. A lot depends on how smooth you want the surface to be.


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

I will give these recommendations a try.:smile:


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

I started from scratch with tools. I relied on a bunch of sandpaper. 

But remember:
If you're staining and finishing the wood, just keep it in your mind that you're NOT sanding for feel. You sand, plane, and/or scrape for how well the wood accepts the stain. The "feel" comes at the very end of the entire process. 

In other words, 600 grit feels smooth as silk but if you don't run through some rough grits (or scrapers) initially - when you apply the stain it may still show swirls or other problems. It may be invisible to the eye unless you wipe it with spirits or water. 

Power jointer/planers cut the wood (obviously). And don't swirl (knives- not sure about helix heads, etc) like sanders. And may even leave a stainable surface if you're lucky. You can build a table from a block of wood and sandpaper but that's certainly not efficient or fun. 

Basically... The jointer/planer greatly reduces the sanding process. Gives you straight edges and uniform thickness for building. And it just makes building and finishing easier. 

Don't forget hand planers! It's an art (technique, sharpening), and can cost more than power planers if you get high end tools. But it's a ton of fun too. 
Hope it helps. 
Dave


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

With well sharpened blades and correct angles, you can get a glass smooth finish from a power jointer or planer, but once you apply a finish and look carefully at an angle with light throwing shadows, you will see blade marks.

Sanding will take these out and visually it will look fine. Sanding is not precise though, if you want to split hairs, again with a gloss finish and light at exactly the right angles one can detect a 1,000th of an inch or more material removed in some places on the piece. In other words there will be micro valleys and peaks. The larger the piece, the more obvious it becomes. For most applications sanding will do just fine though.

If you want to be precise, wide belt and drum sanders can get you close.

On small to medium pieces I use a hand-plane, very sharp with correct blade angles and I can remove less than a 1,000th sliver, be precise and get a smooth surface with minimal grain raising during finishing. I never stain though, I call that "painting" it's loved by Asian mass producers, think they don't know anything else. With all the natural wood colors available to us, there is no need to spoil nature's creation.


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks for the feeback guys.

In general my pieces are about 6 x 3 x 3/4. I have been doing it to feel. Perhaps that is my mistake.

Typically, after the stain is dry I use steel wool to smooth it out and then a paste wax just to give it a little seal. I do these things not out of knowledge but suggestion.

I am open to better procedures.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

I tend to agree with WillemJM about using stain. I'll stain Pine or Poplar, but usually that's all except on rare occasions. I like to let the wood speak for itself whenever possible.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

While I do like the look of natural woods, there are some lumbers that are really enhanced by the right stain.

Examples of cypress before and after below. The reason I bring this up is to point out that not all stain is intended to change the wood but can simply enhance it... Splitting hairs here, I know, but it's still stain...

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

firemedic said:


> While I do like the look of natural woods, there are some lumbers that are really enhanced by the right stain.
> 
> Examples of cypress before and after below. The reason I bring this up is to point out that not all stain is intended to change the wood but can simply enhance it... Splitting hairs here, I know, but it's still stain...
> 
> ~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


That Cypress sure looks good! :thumbsup:

I do the same with Walnut, but use Amber Shellac to bring out the color. A lot of finishes will actually yellow by themselves, one can use that to your advantage, sometimes such as in white figured Maple it is a disadvantage.

In my language that is not stain. I refer to stain as the stuff that causes blotches when not processed correctly, or the stuff from China, where a scratch exposes a white wood, otherwise attempting to look like Walnut.

Adding a slight tint dye to your finish to enhance the wood where it is not disguised is techincally stain, but I would not call it "paint".


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

A small aside: if you get a thickness planer with 3 blades (knives) instead of 2 you'll get a smoother surface requiring even less sanding.


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks Chaincarver Steve.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Google and understanding KM/in (knife marks per inch)can possibly help.BW


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

dcoledc said:


> Thanks for the feeback guys.
> 
> In general my pieces are about 6 x 3 x 3/4. I have been doing it to feel. Perhaps that is my mistake.



I hope you didn't plan on running 6" long pieces thru a planer! It would be ugly.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

dcoledc said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I am talking about a power planer.
> 
> Perhaps, though I should be having a different discussion. I know poplar is not the best for staining, but I liked it's other properties so I use it. Anyway, should I not be sanding to 220 grit? I am just tryig to get an even stain or at least the best I can using poplar.
> 
> Please keep in mind I am very new to this. I am slowly buying tools, but started with just a drill press and belt/disc sander. I am tying to make production as easy as possible.


If you are staining poplar you should be useing a blotcch control. You will get un ever staining on most wood unless you use a blotch control. Go to this video and watch charles neil on blotch. You wont belive the difference. I use it on every type of wood i use. here is the link http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=InTheWorkshop#p/u/35/IfCYMdrP8rM As far as sanding i sand to 400 grit and some will say that is to much ??? that is what i do. I spray lacquer and i get a very smoot finish this is my way i go thing's in my shop. Some time's i work my way up . I have all the grit's and use them. As for as a planer making the wood smooth enough for finishing just out on it. I wouldn't do it. Mine plane's very well but i sand any way. The planer is for ruff sawmill wood to get it down to thickness and than sand and finish . my 3 cent's inflation you know


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## oldmacnut (Dec 27, 2010)

Even if you get a smooth enough finish from a planer, you would still have to clean the blades on a regular basis

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Woodworking Talk


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

I did plan on running 6 inch pieces through. Glad I asked this question. I guess that is not a good idea?

Perhaps I will look into this blotching.

Thanks again for all the feedback.


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## NickSaw76 (Nov 10, 2011)

Like someone else mentioned, a planer will just give you the same finish as the already surfaced wood you buy at Lowes or Home Deopt. I would maybe look into getting a small bench mount style drum sander. They look like a planer but they "sand" the wood.


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

That looks like what I need. Will it get a nice finish on it?


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## weavilswoodshop (Sep 3, 2010)

I use 100 and 120 grit on my drum sanders and I use a random orbital sander afterward to reach the finish I want. If staining (and I seldom stain) I sand only to 150 or maybe 180. If it is a blotchy wood I apply conditioner or sealer or gell. If not staining I sand to 400(may be over kill but thats just the way I do it). I basically use the drum sander and the planer for the same purpose but the sander puts a lot less stress on the wood and I can feed in a lot smaller boards. I don't think we're on the same page when it comes to the time and aggravation of sanding small pieces of popular. With a ramdom orbital sander I can have a 6" piece as smooth as silk on both sides in less than thirty seconds. I admit that having a drum sander is great to have in the shop but they don't come cheap and I think you would still be sanding by hand to get where you want the finish to be. Again, thats just my 4 cents worth.


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. Honestly, a lot of my frustration comes when sanding the edges. My corners are all rounded to 3/4. Getting that smooth with the sides has been a challenge for me. This is not to say, I intend on standing the wood on end when sending it through a drum sander or planer.

Further, my lack of knowledge is frustrating. Perhaps, it is not the sanding at all, but rather the staining that gives me a poor finish. Maybe I don't even need to sand to 220 grit. In fact, can someone tell me what grit I should sand to and what the wood should feel like pre-stain? I was under the impression, I want it to feel super smooth. Is that needed or not?


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

Running 6" pieces thru the planer is easy. Obviously plane your board before cutting it to 6" pieces. 
You can also use a "planer" sled if you must plane a 6" board. 
But it's just easier to cut final lengths after it's planed.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I wouldn't run 6" pieces*



clarionflyer said:


> Running 6" pieces thru the planer is easy. Obviously plane your board before cutting it to 6" pieces.
> You can also use a "planer" sled if you must plane a 6" board.
> But it's just easier to cut final lengths after it's planed.


The distance between the infeed and out feed rollers determines the minimum length, usually stated in owners manuals between 12" and 18". But I agree it's easier and much safer to start with longer board in the planer, then cut them to 6" lengths.

AS far as using a sled the same rule would apply. I use a sled for thinner stock when the planer is at it's minimum height setting.
Workpieces must be secured to the sled with no posiblity of lift up.


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## dcoledc (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks.:smile:


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

clarionflyer said:


> Running 6" pieces thru the planer is easy. Obviously plane your board before cutting it to 6" pieces.
> You can also use a "planer" sled if you must plane a 6" board.
> But it's just easier to cut final lengths after it's planed.


I may not have been clear here. I meant that planing the board, then cutting it off 6 inches is what is easy. 
The only way I know of using a power planer on 6 inches of wood, is to use a "sled". If you want info on a "plane sled" just ask. Glad to help. 

Even good planers will usually "snipe".


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

dcoledc said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Honestly, a lot of my frustration comes when sanding the edges. My corners are all rounded to 3/4. Getting that smooth with the sides has been a challenge for me. This is not to say, I intend on standing the wood on end when sending it through a drum sander or planer.
> 
> Further, my lack of knowledge is frustrating. Perhaps, it is not the sanding at all, but rather the staining that gives me a poor finish. Maybe I don't even need to sand to 220 grit. In fact, can someone tell me what grit I should sand to and what the wood should feel like pre-stain? I was under the impression, I want it to feel super smooth. Is that needed or not?


If you're doing a lot of production sanding on 3/4" round overs you can get the curved sanding sponges or you can route a 3/4 cove in a piece of 1" MDF, sand it out a bit then glue in a piece of 120x.... Consistent sanding without damaging the shape that way.:thumbsup:


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