# Creative solution for stair rail



## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

My home has a narrow, steep stairway. Studs and drywall on both sides. Until recently, we only used the upstairs for my office. But as our toddler grows into a kid we’re starting to use the upstairs more. I put in a play room, and someday it’ll be his bedroom.

Now that we’re spending time up there, grandma and grandpa are struggling to safely go up and down. Heck, my wife and I are both uncomfortable carrying the baby on the stairs. And he’s eager to start doing the stairs by himself too.

So I need to put a railing in, but it has to be low-profile and I’d like it to be something easily removed for those times when we’re moving a piece of furniture or boxes of books or whatever.

My first thought was to use keyhole hangers inset into the back of a wood handrail flush mounted to the wall. You wouldn’t be able to wrap a hand entirely through. The groove along the inner edge would maybe be sufficient to steady the elders and little ones.

Another idea was to use 1” galvanized pipe or metal conduit, mounted through some kind of eye bolts sticking out from the stud, maybe with a set screw holding the railing. This would allow a low profile, and then the rail could be removed just by loosening a half-dozen set screws and slipping it out. But you’d still have the eye bolts sticking out.

Any creative ideas? Any obvious hardware solutions for a removable, low profile mount? For either a pipe or a wood rail?

Photos coming shortly…


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)




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## Kudzu (Dec 23, 2008)

Hate stairs like that! What ever you do IT HAS TO BE STURDY. 

I think I would go with a typical handrail brackets. Just attach them with screws and while not quick, you can remove the screws and the whole handrail. There is nothing left sticking out of the wall to get caught on either. I think safety trumps convenience here.


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

And just for fun, before, during and after photos of the upstairs…

Before:










After (panorama):










After:









After (from the hall looking in):









After (closet outside the room, before I put in the track light and finished the trim):


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

Kudzu said:


> Hate stairs like that! What ever you do IT HAS TO BE STURDY.
> 
> I think I would go with a typical handrail brackets. Just attach them with screws and while not quick, you can remove the screws and the whole handrail. There is nothing left sticking out of the wall to get caught on either. I think safety trumps convenience here.


Oh, yes, it will be sturdy. I hear you on that 100%

The problem is that since my office is upstairs, I'm always lugging boxes of files up and down. It's already tight carrying a banker's box or case of paper, resulting in knuckle scrapes. Maybe a removable rail is a silly idea--probably will always be too inconvenient to remove for each trip up or down with a box full of paper--but at the very least I think it needs to be low profile. Regular brackets stick out way too far.

I was thinking of something similar to this bracket, but with a lower profile. Mount it directly to each stud and then the rail and eyes can be removed for moving furniture or bigger stuff up and down. It would still leave the flange, but if there is one with a low enough profile that might be OK.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

what i have seen done, is that a typical handrail and brackets are used, however each bracket is attached to a decorative wooden oval (avout 4" x 7"), which is then screwed into the studs. if you leave the screws exposed, you can quickly unscrew the ovals from the wall and leave everything else intact, for easy re-installation.


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

TimPa said:


> what i have seen done, is that a typical handrail and brackets are used, however each bracket is attached to a decorative wooden oval (avout 4" x 7"), which is then screwed into the studs. if you leave the screws exposed, you can quickly unscrew the ovals from the wall and leave everything else intact, for easy re-installation.


Not a bad idea. Taking it and running with it, I’m currently thinking something like this:










Upper rail for adults, lower for toddlers. Low profile: less than 2” total. Clearance behind pipe is 3/4”, just enough for fingers.

The boards would be mounted over studs with a pair of keyhole hangers, so they could be popped off when needed. I’m not sure what hardware to use to mount the pipes to the boards so they could easily be loosened and removed without screwing and unscrewing into the wood.


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## swp (Dec 17, 2021)

Consider an elevator. I'm serious. Those stairs are steep. My son wiped out a knee on stairs like that and he was under 30 at the time. Check Youtube for DIY elevator. There are some interesting solutions out there.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> My home has a narrow, steep stairway. Studs and drywall on both sides. Until recently, we only used the upstairs for my office. But as our toddler grows into a kid we’re starting to use the upstairs more. I put in a play room, and someday it’ll be his bedroom.
> 
> Now that we’re spending time up there, grandma and grandpa are struggling to safely go up and down. Heck, my wife and I are both uncomfortable carrying the baby on the stairs. And he’s eager to start doing the stairs by himself too.
> 
> ...



Don't laught, but before my knee replacement I used 1/2" black iron pipe on my main stairs to the bedrooms and on the stairs to the wood shop. it's fastened to the studs with "T s" and short nipples to pipe flanges. The shop stairs don't care about the how black iron looks. The bedroom stairs are kinda rustic modern ...LOL
They already has a beautiful laminated handrail on the full wall side. But there was a short wall across where there was no rail to hold when going up:








Laminated Handrail from 5/16th Oak







www.woodworkingtalk.com




Keep in mind that people are right or left handed and that may be important on which side you favor for the railing if limited to one side.


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

woodnthings said:


> Don't laught, but before my knee replacement I used 1/2" black iron pipe on my main stairs to the bedrooms and on the stairs to the wood shop. it's fastened to the studs with "T s" and short nipples to pipe flanges. The shop stairs don't care about the how black iron looks. The bedroom stairs are kinda rustic modern ...LOL
> They already has a beautiful laminated handrail on the full wall side. But there was a short wall across where there was no rail to hold when going up:
> 
> 
> ...


I really like the laminated rail, and might do something like that someday. For now, I need fast and cheap. Iron pipe, flanges and Ts was one of my first thoughts, but not really all that easy to take down and put back up. EMT is lighter, cheaper, cleaner and strong enough if adequately supported.


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

swp said:


> Consider an elevator. I'm serious. Those stairs are steep. My son wiped out a knee on stairs like that and he was under 30 at the time. Check Youtube for DIY elevator. There are some interesting solutions out there.


Way beyond the scope of what I can do with my time and budget constraints. Someday we’re hoping to put an addition on the house which would allow us to move the stairs altogether and put in something wider and less steep.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Speaking from experience. At 85 I am there. There are many of us that as we age simply cannot go up and down regular stairs. Let alone steep ones. It does not matter if those stairs have an ideal rail system. Though in the earlier states of our ageing problems those rails do help.

If you have grandparents involved you have to be especially watchful. They can easily reach a stage where they want to go to play room, but they should not be allowed to do so.

An elevator would certainly be something that should be considered.

For what you describe that you want, then the pipes seem the best to me.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> I really like the laminated rail, and might do something like that someday. For now, I need fast and cheap. Iron pipe, flanges and Ts was one of my first thoughts, but not really all that easy to take down and put back up. *EMT is lighter, cheaper, cleaner and strong enough if adequately supported.*


EMT is an issue...? I dont think that it is meant to be "structural" if any codes come into play? This is kinda an insurance issue also. Worst case, someone falls, get severly injured, hospitalized and the ER Doc says.... "HOW'D THIS HAPPEN?" The short answer is "The handrail broke off" . You call the insurance agent and Meducare they both say "Sorry, We don't cover that."
Another issue is EMT doesn't have "T's" as far as I know, like pipe fittings.
To attach EMT adequately would require "stand offs" and clamps, kinda sharp for holding on to.
Can you weld or braze?
FYI, At first I thought 1/2" would be too small for my larger hands, but actually, not so. It allows for a wrap around grip ... "locked on" more or less.
For my full 15 step run, I used one "T" in the center and two elbows each one at the top and bottom. They were screwed into studs with 2 1/2" screws into the flanges.
With a drill driver or impact, on or off in 2 minutes.
Another solution for the elderly as seen on TV, the Stair Climber, a sit down chair that is powered up a straight run. I donno if they can turn corners at landings?
I kinda doubt that.
BUT, if the elderly live in the residence, then Medicare may cover all or part ofthe cost?








Lifetime Warranty Stair Lift


The Lifetime Warranty Stair Lift offers a higher quality seat and folding armrests compared to its Classic counterpart. Call for a DIY or Pro Install quote.




assisted-lifting.com





Don't eliminate a good old fashioned wood handrail. They have standoffs for installation.
Another method is to screw right through the rail, contersink the head flush and "sleeve" the threaded part with a metal or plastic tube about 2" long for the standoff clearance. Probably 3 or 4 GRK RSS structural 5" screws would work:





GRK Fasteners | Home


GRK Fasteners




www.grkfasteners.com


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## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

I understand the desire to maximize the usable stair width by making the gap between the rail and wall 3/4". However, consider the very possible scenario of someone stumbling on the stairs, blindly grasping for support, and either 1) failing to get a grip because of the small clearance, making the presence of the rail moot, or 2) getting a grip, but then getting his hand trapped in the rail gap while falling, resulting in a) dislocated i) shoulder, ii) elbow, iii) wrist, or b) fractures of any bones in the arm, wrist or hand. IMO a risk too great to justify any benefit of narrow clearance.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I guess you can get a solution for anything eventually, despite building codes. 









Stair Railing and Guard Building Code Guidelines


Learn about stair handrail and guard code, including height for both rails and guards, on interior stairs and landings.




www.thespruce.com


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## rossgjacob (May 6, 2020)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> My home has a narrow, steep stairway. Studs and drywall on both sides. Until recently, we only used the upstairs for my office. But as our toddler grows into a kid we’re starting to use the upstairs more. I put in a play room, and someday it’ll be his bedroom.
> 
> Now that we’re spending time up there, grandma and grandpa are struggling to safely go up and down. Heck, my wife and I are both uncomfortable carrying the baby on the stairs. And he’s eager to start doing the stairs by himself too.
> 
> ...


I have recently installed handrails lower than the normal height so that our grandkids have something at their height to hang onto. I was able to get some handrail brackets that screw into the studs and used some 40x40mm timber that I added routed curved corners to. The brackets have a wood screw one end and metal thread the other to fix the remaining portion of the bracket. They were available from the big box store.


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> My home has a narrow, steep stairway. Studs and drywall on both sides. Until recently, we only used the upstairs for my office. But as our toddler grows into a kid we’re starting to use the upstairs more. I put in a play room, and someday it’ll be his bedroom.
> 
> Now that we’re spending time up there, grandma and grandpa are struggling to safely go up and down. Heck, my wife and I are both uncomfortable carrying the baby on the stairs. And he’s eager to start doing the stairs by himself too.
> 
> ...


If my memory is correct, and the hand rail must be 34-38" above the front edge of the tread. The rail itself must have 1-1/2" of "grab ability" and hand movement must not be impeded the length of the rail. This means from the time you grasp the rail at the top of the stairs, you can slide your hand all the way down the rail until it comes off the end. If you are going to do it, I would suggest you double check my post and check your local building code.


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## WTI (Jan 1, 2022)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> Not a bad idea. Taking it and running with it, I’m currently thinking something like this:
> 
> View attachment 436296
> 
> ...


Go to zoro.com and type in Pipe Railing Fittings, you'll find everything you need at decent prices. You should be able to source schedule 40 aluminum pipe, (not tubing!), they will match up well. I suggest you use 1" fittings, pipe is measured from the ID so the OD will be around 1.30" which should be just about right for a handrail. The fittings all use Allen head bolts so they're concealed but easy to remove and replace. I use this stuff all the time, it's great, very strong and easy to work with, a couple of 3way fittings and some flanges and you'll have it done, you can even get nice plastic end caps from them. It's a good legit company.


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## WTI (Jan 1, 2022)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> Oh, yes, it will be sturdy. I hear you on that 100%
> 
> The problem is that since my office is upstairs, I'm always lugging boxes of files up and down. It's already tight carrying a banker's box or case of paper, resulting in knuckle scrapes. Maybe a removable rail is a silly idea--probably will always be too inconvenient to remove for each trip up or down with a box full of paper--but at the very least I think it needs to be low profile. Regular brackets stick out way too far.
> 
> I was thinking of something similar to this bracket, but with a lower profile. Mount it directly to each stud and then the rail and eyes can be removed for moving furniture or bigger stuff up and down. It would still leave the flange, but if there is one with a low enough profile that might be OK.





Dylan JC Buffum said:


> My home has a narrow, steep stairway. Studs and drywall on both sides. Until recently, we only used the upstairs for my office. But as our toddler grows into a kid we’re starting to use the upstairs more. I put in a play room, and someday it’ll be his bedroom.
> 
> Now that we’re spending time up there, grandma and grandpa are struggling to safely go up and down. Heck, my wife and I are both uncomfortable carrying the baby on the stairs. And he’s eager to start doing the stairs by himself too.
> 
> ...


Go to zoro.com and type in Pipe Railing Fittings, you'll find everything you need at decent prices. You should be able to source schedule 40 aluminum pipe, (not tubing!), they will match up well. I suggest you use 1" fittings, pipe is measured from the ID so the OD will be around 1.30" which should be just about right for a handrail. The fittings all use Allen head bolts so they're concealed but easy to remove and replace. I use this stuff all the time, it's great, very strong and easy to work with, a couple of 3way fittings and some flanges and you'll have it done, you can even get nice plastic end caps from them. It's a good legit company.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Safety trumps everything. As is, the stairs are dangerous.

Railing brackets attached to a fascia board would be removable.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

My post offended a member and was therefore deleted.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

The rail shown in post #21 does not meet building codes, why is it posted here?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

FrankC said:


> The rail shown in post #21 does not meet building codes, why is it posted here?


I'll bet the stairs don't meet code either. Stacking code violations is probably OK, unless the inspector ? declares the whole thoing must be torn out.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

It would seem to make sense to use a proper handrail to offer as much protection from a fall as possible with stairs that steep, particularly if elderly family members are involved.


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## samsonmark12 (11 mo ago)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> View attachment 436288
> 
> View attachment 436287


…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MorenoF (12 mo ago)

I remember when I lived in an old house where the rail stairs were so fragile that if I wanted to support me while I climbed the stairs, it was a big percent that I would fall. In case such a case would happen one time, it was another person that helped and held. One day, my mother met with all inhabitants and decided to find a company that would install an elevator in our block. I was so proud that I founded this company, hinchong.com, because, in our zone, we were the first one with such an elevator. That's why I prefer to use the elevator instead of the stairs.


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## Half Fast Eddie (Jan 12, 2022)

FrankC said:


> The rail shown in post #21 does not meet building codes, why is it posted here?


Codes assume unlimited funds and unlimited space to build the textbook perfect stairs. I bet he has neither. My question would be … is he making the situation better or worse? And offer an opinion from there.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Half Fast Eddie said:


> Codes assume unlimited funds and unlimited space to build the textbook perfect stairs. I bet he has neither. My question would be … is he making the situation better or worse? And offer an opinion from there.


Codes are a guide to making something safe, any opinion to the contrary is a total lack of responsibility. We all have opinions, however there are no consequences for bad advice posted here, personally I prefer to go to bed knowing my opinions have not caused harm to anyone.


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