# Stanley No. 4 & No. 5



## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

Flea market finds. Got them both for $20/ea. The frog on the No. 4 is chipped a bit but the mating surfaces are fine. Neither one is that corroded. I'm thinking just some steel wool and WD-40. There doesn't seem to be any heavy pitting.


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## john sayles (May 27, 2013)

I'm going to assume that by posting these, you're looking for feedback.
I could do what is often done and say something insipid like:"Nice - they should clean up fine and be great users"

But instead, I'll be honest with you - 20/each is quite high. The number four is a very late model plane (possible even UK-made) It dates to a time after Stanley quality had declined greatly.
The No 5 seems to be sporting stained hardwood handles, rather than rosewood, and may not even have brass fittings.

That said, they probably _will_ make good users.

The point here is not to make you feel bad, but to educate you.
All of us go through the learning curve.


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

$40 was a good deal to me. The No. 5 has the bakelite (I think) adjustment knob and might be a Type 17 (1942-45). The No. 4 has a brass adjustment knob and might be a Type 20 (1962-67)

http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/typing/typing.htm


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

evilrick said:


> The No. 5 has the bakelite (I think) adjustment knob and might be a Type 17 (1942-45).


All that matters is if you are happy with the purchase.

I am intrigued by the No. 5. How about some pictures of the adjustment wheel. In this period it may have been rubber.

I have come across a similar plane in my restorations. In my case a No. 7. Sadly the rubber had hardened and come off the metal insert.

Take a look at my restoration thread for more details.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/plane-restore-round-4-a-48338/index4/


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

Dave Paine said:


> All that matters is if you are happy with the purchase.


I concur.



Dave Paine said:


> I am intrigued by the No. 5. How about some pictures of the adjustment wheel. In this period it may have been rubber.
> 
> I have come across a similar plane in my restorations. In my case a No. 7. Sadly the rubber had hardened and come off the metal insert


This one is a hard plastic. I guessed at the bakelite just because of the era of the plane and how hard it is. It's definitely not rubber.


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

And here's before/after some WD-40 and Scotch-Brite.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

evilrick said:


> This one is a hard plastic. I guessed at the bakelite just because of the era of the plane and how hard it is. It's definitely not rubber.


Thanks for the pictures. Rust is very superficial, just WD-40 and paper towel may remove.

I think it was rubber, but as the solvents have evapourated over time, it has become very hard. In my plane it also warped and shrank.

Hyper Kitten is one of the type study sites. Its entry for Type 17 state the adjustment wheel were either steel or rubber, not stated but rubber with metal insert.

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/type_study.php#Type%2017


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Here are a couple of pictures of my #5 of the same type/era. Mine has no frog adjustment screw, stained tote/handle, one piece steel screws for handle/tote and the black hard rubber depth adjustment knob. Definitely a "war era" no-frills plane.:smile:

























You'll also notice the wood dust, superficial rust and un-restored wood parts. That is what all my planes look like after my restoration.:laughing:

The bottom is flat and clean, the blade is sharp and all moving parts move - perfect condition in my book.:yes:


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## aztoolman (Oct 13, 2013)

Thats a WWII era No. 5 with the plastic depth adjustment knob. Type 17 if I remember correctly. Nice find! Someday I want to collect a full run of the plastic knob planes. Clean them up and enjoy!


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

The type 17's are out there in abundance. Usually sold at lower prices than most of the earlier types. They seem to be shunned by users and collectors alike, which is probably why they can be purchased for less dollars.

I have had a few come and go in my shop. They clean up very nicely and can be finely tuned. Most that I have seen have thick, heavy base castings, which is a plus for me. A sharp iron can nullify many other perceived defects.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I paid $20 for it on ebay about 3 years ago. I don't really care if it is "collectable" or not. It is a fine working plane. May not be as pretty as others, but the lack of brass and stained hardwood tote/knob doesn't affect performance, which is my prime consideration.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

trc65 said:


> I paid $20 for it on ebay about 3 years ago. I don't really care if it is "collectable" or not. It is a fine working plane. May not be as pretty as others, but the lack of brass and stained hardwood tote/knob doesn't affect performance, which is my prime consideration.


And there you go. If it works, who (collectors excepted) really cares when it was made?


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

trc65 said:


> I paid $20 for it on ebay about 3 years ago. I don't really care if it is "collectable" or not. It is a fine working plane. May not be as pretty as others, but the lack of brass and stained hardwood tote/knob doesn't affect performance, which is my prime consideration.


I concur.


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

I got them both cleaned up pretty good. I do not have a piece of granite yet so I just lapped everything on MDF to get the rust off. I'm not going to do any serious sole lapping or iron sharpening until I get some granite. I do not want to use my table saw top. I want to polish the parts more just because I'm OCD.

I also want to remove the japaning because the rust is coming through. I have someone that can sandblast for me, but is there another way to remove the black/blue?

And I just sanded the knobs and totes with 100,220 and put a couple of coats of Minwax mahogany stain on them. I do not like the varnish look so just used some wax. I like the dull look over the shiney.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

evilrick said:


> I also want to remove the japaning because the rust is coming through. I have someone that can sandblast for me, but is there another way to remove the black/blue?


These are looking very good.

The existing jappaning can also be removed with paint strippers. This will loosen the paint, but you will have to scrape to remove it.

I like to use Ready-Strip. Available at many hardware stores and big box stores. A HD link.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ready-St...mentally-Friendly-65832/100665911?N=5yc1vZ4m0

This is no odour and no harsh chemicals. Apply a very thick coat with a small brush. Leave this overnight to soften the paint and then scrape off with the paint.

Getting the paint out of the lettering in the casting is tedious, but I have found hand scraping does a better job than when I had a friend sand blast a casting for me.


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

I like tedious. It's almost meditative.

We currently have some Citristip http://www.homedepot.com/p/Citristr...tripping-Gel-HCG73803T/100141801?N=5yc1vZc5bq which says works on lacquer. I think I'll give that a try first. Is there a particular brand of spray paint that works best on metals like this? Do they have lacquers that comes in colors?

EDIT - I just found Valspar at Lowe's that comes in black. Good, bad? *It's shown in the "Chain Accessories" category . . .?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I followed the recommendation of TimeTestedTools to use *Dupli-Color Engine Enamel DUPDE1635 Ford Semi Gloss Blac*k spray paint.

Goes on thick. Apply several coats about 10 mins apart and all must be within 1 hr.

If you miss anything, then you have to wait 7 days for the coats to cross link before you attempt another coat.


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

What about blue? Again, the OCD in me. I'm contemplating Testors model paint. It's inexpensive and if it doesn't work, I can always take it off relatively easy.


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

Dave Paine said:


> These are looking very good.


Thank you by the way.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

evilrick said:


> What about blue? Again, the OCD in me. I'm contemplating Testors model paint. It's inexpensive and if it doesn't work, I can always take it off relatively easy.


Dupli-Color Engine Enamel comes in many colours. Just go to the store and find one which you feel matches.

Autozone carries this paint, perhaps many other auto parts places.

I am not familiar with Testors model paint so cannot comment.


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Looking good...

I must note, a Type 17 in good condition are being collected and are good users if properly tuned. The last three I have seen on the Bay went for 40+ and where not as nice as yours.

What ever you decide on your finish, that is your plane, so enjoy them.
And enjoy your restoration, I do mine.

Will love to see what they look like when they are done...:thumbsup:


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

I have a No 4 with the plastic adjustment knob too. 

Yeah, $20 each is high but if you're happy with them then thats great.

Here in PA, I can get stanley 4's and 5's for $10 or less needing cleaned up. But thats not always the case with other parts of the country.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

I have used VHT epoxy paint on a few plane bodies and frogs. I like because it can be sprayed directly on the cast iron with no primer. Seems to be holding up good so far.

Another way to strip the japanning off is with electrolysis. Leave the parts in overnight or longer and the japanning looses most of it's grip. What doesn't come off with a small wire brush can be chipped off with a small flat blade screwdriver.


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

Almost done . . .


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm waiting on my new honing guide and granite so I can seriously lap the soles and sharpen the blades.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Looking real good! :thumbsup:


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## evilrick (Dec 8, 2013)

Thanks. I think I'm going to redo the handles and use varnish. I do like the non-glossy look, but these are going to show grime too much. I also need to get some yellow paint for the No. 4's lever cap. Then I'll be done . . . probably.


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## Brian Wilson (Jan 19, 2014)

nice set of planes you have there. I just purchased my first no.4 and no.5. both need restoration. I was planning on using tru-oil on the rosewood tote and handle of my no.5. it's one of my favorite finishes.


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## Priusjames (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm impressed. That's not saying much, but I wanted to let you know anyhow.

I'm waiting for a pkg of planes (and a few other hand tools) to arrive from VT, am looking forward to taking them apart and fondling them...and then breathing new life into them, like you've done.

Thanks for inviting us along on your zen journey(!)


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Don't fondle them too much:laughing::laughing: The oils in your fingers can cause more rust!

Besides - didn't your Mother tell you not to play with sharp objects:laughing:


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## acowboy (Nov 20, 2013)

Dave Paine suggested to me in another thread to use True-oil on my wood.
I have to admit after using a-lot of other different finishes, True-oil is my favorite to use now. Depending how many coats you put on, you can get to your desired look.


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## rtutsky (Jun 17, 2012)

Wow those planes look stunning! Nice resto job. Sharpened irons and some fine tuning and you're going to be one happy woodworker!


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