# Making a "ROUND" Bowl



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

If you are like me,for some reason,I do not seem to be able to make my bowls round.I have bought almost everything out there that tells you how,but still I do not get them round.I know that if the wood is not round,you end up with a sorry looking bowl.
About 10 years ago,I was making hand knives,and pocket knives,and I made this little cheater bar to make sure that all my knives were all the same grind on both sides,and so yesterday,I got one out (cheater) and with a little time,I set it up on my wood lathe.Enclose are some photo.Mack.


----------



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

Here is one more photo;Mack.


----------



## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

Are you saying your bowls aren't round when they come off the lathe or a week later once they've dried a bit?


----------



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

What I am saying is,I buy a round piece of wood,but it may not be round,then you find the center,if your lucky,put on machine,turn and its not round.With this simple little clamp,now I can make it round.Hope this helps.


----------



## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

Sorry I'm slow but just to be sure I understand, would it be fair to say that your clamp is designed to keep your tool from bouncing on the uneven surface as you bring a blank into round?


----------



## Travico (Dec 25, 2012)

Nice idea. I see it in the future tool section of wood magazines!!!


----------



## DonAlexander (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm struggling to understand the problem, too and it isn't clear yet. Here's how I'm understanding what you've said.

>What I am saying is,I buy a round piece of wood,but it may not be round,

Yep. Wood dries out and distorts.

>then you find the center,if your lucky,

Hopefully you're always at least close. If the piece isn't round, you won't find a center in the ordinary sense of the word.

>put on machine,turn and its not round.

Here's where you lose me. I assume when you say "turn" you mean more than spin the wood. I assume you mean you're cutting too. If you cut slowly (so the tool doesn't bounce excessively) and deep enough, the piece pretty much has to be round, or close enough that we'd call it round.

>With this simple little clamp,now I can make it round.

I'm assuming you're clamping the gouge you show to the tool rest. I'm not clear what the clamp does that hand holding the gouge wouldn't do.

I'm pretty new at turning so I may be missing the obvious and I apologize if I have missed the obvious.

Don


----------



## Ron Rutter (Jan 18, 2011)

Mack. Not sure why you are so concerned with starting out absolutely round. That is what you do in the process. 
I made a disc out of plexiglass & cut recessed circles on it. Darkened alternate rings, & hole in the center. Just lay the disc on your blank and it is easy to determine your ( best) center of an irregular blank. Ron.
I should add that this is used when setting up to a faceplate. It looks like you are already on a tenon. How did you cut that????


----------



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

I have been always told by my wife that I do not explain myself at any level,but let me slow down and try.
I buy my round wood from --------- and bring home,then I put a round piece of plexus glass with lines all around at different intervals,on top of the wood,find center,on both sides.Now sometimes the round wood is not the same on top as the bottom is.If you have a four inch thick piece,it could be thicker at top than bottom.Now that I have a "center hole" on both sides,I put in in my machine,start machine,and I can see where the piece of wood is not round.Now I start turning,and for some reason it gets worse.Now I do not change anything,except put this little "cheater" on my tool,set it to where I want it,move tool back and back again on tool rest,and after a few times doing this,the wood will be almost round.Now I reset the "cheater" again,just a little deeper,and do it again,until wood is round.Hope I did not make things worst.Maybe next time I will make a video.Mack.


----------



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

Ron Rutter said:


> Mack. Not sure why you are so concerned with starting out absolutely round. That is what you do in the process.
> I made a disc out of plexiglass & cut recessed circles on it. Darkened alternate rings, & hole in the center. Just lay the disc on your blank and it is easy to determine your ( best) center of an irregular blank. Ron.
> I should add that this is used when setting up to a faceplate. It looks like you are already on a tenon. How did you cut that????


Ron,If this piece is not round,it will show up on the inside and you will have tare outs,and that means sanding,sanding,sanding,I have tried all types of ways to turn a bowl,and most of the time I start using two center points,and then turn my tool rest sideways,and cut to the center,making a tenon. This is just my opion;Mack.


----------



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

DonAlexander said:


> I'm struggling to understand the problem, too and it isn't clear yet. Here's how I'm understanding what you've said.
> 
> >What I am saying is,I buy a round piece of wood,but it may not be round,
> 
> ...


Don,the clamp goes on the tool,then start turning just like you would as if the little clamp was not there.The clamp goes up against the tool rest,and stays there as you go back and forth.Hope this helps;Mack.


----------



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

Travico said:


> Nice idea. I see it in the future tool section of wood magazines!!!


Thanks for the nice words,but it not for sale,only to help people like me,and I know there are some having a time,just like me.Mack.


----------



## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

Is that a bowl gouge? 
Tom


----------



## jgilfor (Jan 25, 2013)

That tool appears to be a spindle roughing gouge. Used for truing (rounding out) square stock prior to turning. It can be, but probably should not be used for rounding out large bowl blanks. The tang is not designed to withstand the type of forces you may get while doing so. They have been known to snap with disastrous results. Also, most people find that, with the SRG, an angled presentation works best. Flat parallel to the tool rest will give the MOST bounce and stress on the tool. Also, it may rip portions of the blank, rather than smoothly cutting. I would not suggest a captured tool rig for roughing a bowl blanks. Sorry.

Also, I notice that you have that tool ground with a relatively acute (lower angle) bevel than typical for it (should be in the 60-80 degree range), and you have brought the sides (wings, such as they are with a SRG) back like a bowl gouge. I would suggest to you that the best shape for this tool is a completely straight across grind (check out some web sites that explain this).

You might best be served by roughing out your blanks with a larger bowl gouge (5/8 inch works well. You will of course need to rub the bevel (which you SHOULD be doing with the SRG as well. Start with the handle way down, find your bevel along the wood surface, and raise the handle until the tool starts to cut. Initially, with a very off center blank, you will hit a lot of "air" while roughing the thing out. As you progress towards true round, you will get to the point where you are actually cutting all the way around. THAT is the point at which the blank is ROUND.

Tip: Look at the top border of the blank as you rough it round. You will best be able to see where the blank still needs to be brought down to true round.

Hope this helps.


----------



## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

I can see where your idea will work in keeping the same distance from the work. Especially with your style rest most people keep a finger in the indention to keep the tool moving at the same distance.

If your have not looked at stance then it may be causing a lot of your problems with an uneven surface. Here is a link to Stuart Batty videos and there are three on stance. If your arms are away from your body it is almost impossible to get a smooth cut.
http://vimeo.com/woodturning/videos/sort:alphabetical/format:thumbnail

The position of the tool as shown is in a scraping action, not a slicing action, and you will get major tear out of the end grain. You need the bevel to be rubbing and I don't think that can be done with it clamped down.

A bowl gouge would be much better IMHO. What you are using is a spindle gouge, and with the tang I assume it is a contential style.
Most spindle gouges today are solid bar except for the SRG.
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=wo...lang=en-US&w=1bT3IGzUjvo1at-AeWtc_KNv4aWtyG6D


----------



## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

Mack, I'm concerned that this whole "round" issue may be a bit of a red herring for you. With the right combination of tool selection, grind and presentation, any concentric cut should be round within a practical margin of error. If you are experiencing tool "bounce" it will certainly result in a poor surface but that can be avoided with the right cut. While a jig will help you make a straight and even surface, you are restricting your ability to make curves and smooth bevel riding cuts. 

Those of us who chainsaw our own blanks often start with a rough octagonal shape and knock the corners off with a bowl gouge using either a scraping cut or bevel riding cut. It isn't necessary to start with a round blank. As soon as a continuous cut is being made around the circumference of the bowl, it is round. Changes in grain direction and density may induce bounce but it should be remedied as soon as it is detected by changing tool presentation or resharpening, otherwise it will continue to get worse until it is impossible to make a smooth cut. 

I don't mean to insult your ingenuity but I'd hate to see you pouring effort int fixing the wrong problem.


----------



## Pauley (Jan 21, 2012)

I'm wondering if something is wrong with the tail stock or head stock....just a thought. I can't see something not being round after turning it...


----------



## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Mack,

As several others have already said, the problem that you are having is being caused by the way that you are trying to use the tool. The piece of wood doesn't need to be round and usually it isn't. Most of the time I start off with a section of log that has been split down the center and then mounted between centers. It is far from being round, but the point is that it can be turned from any shape to round.

Jeff mentioned that the tool looks like it might be a spindle roughing gouge (SRG). It sort of resembles one, however, I am pretty certain that it is an older style continental gouge which has a construction very similar to the SRG, but with a shallower curve. The important thing, however, is that it also has the same weak tang as the SRG. Using an SRG on a face grain turning is extremely hazardous and the way that you are using the continental gouge is also extremely hazardous. In all sincerity you should not be using the tool the way that it is being used. I think that somebody has already mentioned that you are using the tool as a scraper rather than the way that it ought to be used with the bevel rubbing so that the wood fibers are being sliced rather than being scraped.With the way that the tool edge is being presented to the spinning wood, there is a significant chance of getting a serious catch.

One of the forum members, John Lucas, has some very good YouTube videos that show how to use various turning tools.


----------



## Big Mack (Jan 23, 2011)

I have read all your post,and enjoy them.I have research all the tools for turning,and have found that I may be using some tools that a lot of you think that I should not be.I started out three years ago,and went to several club meetings,but they were not pleasant.Most seen to try to be above me,as some are on here, so I have never gone back.I met a old man at a outside show,and he turned everything with a round scraper,and I had a long talk with him.He was the one who told me to use this tool,that most feel that I should not use.I guess that when you get use to one thing it is hard to get away from it.I will try on the next bowl to use the;
Bowl gouges have deeper flutes and remove wood faster than spindle gouges, but are meant mainly for use in end grains, unlike the roughing gouge. The results tend to be smoother than those left by roughing gouges. This is a gouge type that creates a lot of different opinions as to what angle of flute is best: the simplest procedure is to get a standard gouge (HSS) and try the original angles. If those don't suit, start grinding different angles until you reach one that you really like, that really suits your style of bowl making.Thanks;Mack.


----------



## jgilfor (Jan 25, 2013)

An alternative method for roughing and turning bowls, or other vessels, is to use home made tools. The oldest and least expensive is probably the Oland tool. Essentially, a short piece of HSS, shaped somewhat oval, and at a 60-80 degree nose angle, and affixed to the end of a pipe with two set stews. Google Oland tool.
the Oland tool is used like a scraper, but may also be used in bevel rubbing mode. They are stout, remove wood very easily, and can give a nice tool finish if used appropriately.

You can make one for less than$5. Also, if you want, carbide tools (as Easy Wood tools are) can also be made in a similar fashion. The blade costs a bit more, but still can be done for less than $15, if you buy after market carbide cutters.


----------



## UnisawGuy (Jul 20, 2014)

If you are "riding the bevel" on an out of round piece, the cut will follow the out of round. To true an out of round the cut will be air for part of the time.


----------



## NCPaladin (Aug 7, 2010)

Big Mack said:


> This is a gouge type that creates a lot of different opinions as to what angle of flute is best: the simplest procedure is to get a standard gouge (HSS) and try the original angles. If those don't suit, start grinding different angles until you reach one that you really like, that really suits your style of bowl making.Thanks;Mack.


Yes there are a lot of angles and grids and what one person likes another may not like. This is a one page article on the degree of grinds on bowl gouges and why. The profile (fingernail ect) is another consideration. I hope I didn't say anything to offend before, it is often difficult for me to express my opinion when it is just that... my opinion only. Lots of ways and reasons to do thing differently.

http://www.woodturningdesign.com/askdale/14/14.shtml


----------



## Ron Rutter (Jan 18, 2011)

UnisawGuy said:


> If you are "riding the bevel" on an out of round piece, the cut will follow the out of round. To true an out of round the cut will be air for part of the time.


 I don't think it is possible to have your tool on the rest and have it follow the contour of an out of round bowl, riding the bevel or not.
Also, it is much easier & safer to round a blank going from the tailstock end rather than from the side. IE- go in parallel to the ways. Try it!! Ron.


----------



## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

UnisawGuy said:


> If you are "riding the bevel" on an out of round piece, the cut will follow the out of round. To true an out of round the cut will be air for part of the time.


To expand on what you said, beginners often misinterpret the term "riding the bevel" as it is used by woodturners. As you say, it is not like a cam and follower where pressure is needed from the follower to maintain contact with the cam. When woodturners speak of riding the bevel, what they are referring to is a tiny amount of the bevel, usually on the order of 1/32" just behind the cutting edge that is "riding" the freshly cut wood and that part of the bevel stabilizes the cutting edge. This is achieved by first making full bevel contact and then raising the tool handle slightly until the tool begins to cut. When making this type of cut, you should not push the tool into the wood, but rather let the wood come to the tool. What this means when doing interrupted cutting is that the tool position remains fixed when "cutting air" so that it will still be in the correct orientation when the wood makes contact with the cutting edge again. This is something that beginners often have a difficult time mastering because of several reasons including dull tools and incorrect turning posture along with trying to rust things along.

What Ron said is true, it really isn't possible to actually ride an out of round egg or cam shape. What really happens is that the tool starts to bounce as it gets knocked back and then the cut goes from bad to worse.


----------

