# Transporting home-millings, and spreading nasty bugs



## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I was going to post a flip joke to say "wow I'm jealous" to another thread, about picking up a good deal on some well travelled home milled lumber. But then I used to live in Michigan and have walked through whole stands of standing dead ash, taken out by Emerald Ash Borer, and there was an emergency mowing of everything over an inch within a mile or two of some maple-killing beetle in Chicago a few years back.

So then I had a serious question for benefit of any beginning millers.....

How do you know if you're home milled lumber or the raw crotch on your trailer is spreading disease or insects to uninfected areas? You keep seeing signs saying *DO NOT MOVE FIREWOOD*. So how do you tell if you're homemill is ok to transport?


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## klr650 (Apr 4, 2010)

That's an excellent question.
While I've never actually seen a "do not move firewood" sign in my life, the spread of bugs through the milling machines has to happen.
I mean, my state has copious "Apple maggot Quarentine" signs on the highways, "Milfoil control" signs at the docks. So obviously it's a problem, when people and machines move around from place to place.

Any of you millers routinely hose down your machines after using them?


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## Logger (Nov 26, 2009)

*Bugs*

In wisconsin you cant move any firewood over 50 miles unless its heat treated. On some state logging contracts machines need to be pressure washed before the can be put on site.:thumbdown:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

SteveEl said:


> So how do you tell if you're homemill is ok to transport?


I saw the post and had the same thought you did. I was going to post something also but didn't want to open a can of beetles. As stated unless it's been through a bug-killing cycle in the kiln any wood, or machinery can contaminate the area it's moved to and depending on many scenarios can also seed the insects along the way. 

Picture a couple of Yoopers heading south to Texas for work, and they have a load of ash firewood stacked on the back of their 16 ft utility trailer. The chips are flying out the whole way. The best method of containment there is to keep da Yoopers in da UP. 

But yeah you can't contain stuff like this with laws. Same with the Walnut Twig Beetle. We're almost certainly going to lose that marvelous species also one day. At least I won't be here for that. 









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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> ....didn't want to open a can of beetles..... you can't contain stuff like this with laws....



Can of beetles..... :laughing:

For containment.... that's about educating people and trusting everyone will do their part. It just takes one corner-cutter to decimate a previously healthy forest!

Michigan and Pennsylvania both have billboards saying "don't move firewood" and Michigan at least has had state patrol checks at road side rest areas. They make the guys from the auto plants buy firewood when they drive up north to deer camp. (The guys that can still afford the gas to drive that far, that is.)

Talk it up, folks! *Check with your local game warden types before moving untreated wood products!
*
Emerald Ash Borer
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Asian Longhorned beetle
http://www.beetlebusters.info/

General Clearinghouse (there might be a better one, I don't know)
http://www.dontmovefirewood.org/

Steve El


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## buroak (Mar 25, 2010)

education is the key. ash can be moved from quarintined county to quarintined county with the bark still on. if the log has been sawn into lumber and all bark removed it can be moved into un-infested counties. heat treating other woods kills fungus and bacteria to allow for transportation to other areas. I try to work on a local basis and cater to local wood-workers. but education is still the key


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## TysonWD (Dec 26, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> But yeah you can't contain stuff like this with laws. Same with the Walnut Twig Beetle. We're almost certainly going to lose that marvelous species also one day. At least I won't be here for that.
> .



There is a program where they gather seeds from ash trees. This way once the emerald ash borer goes to some other area to find other ash trees, we can plant the seeds and save the species from extinction.

http://www.oh.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/ash_seed.html


Tyson


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

buroak said:


> education is the key.


I think it helps a little, but with something like this I don't think it would make much of a dent. There's just too many people, with as many reasons who would either believe they can move the wood without injury to healthy trees. Either because they look at the wood and don't see anything "wrong" with it, or they just don't give a hoot and are going to by gosh have their campfire when they get to their deer stand 4 states away. That doesn't mean we shouldn't educate though, I agree. 




TysonWD said:


> There is a program where they gather seeds from ash trees. This way once the emerald ash borer goes to some other area to find other ash trees, we can plant the seeds and save the species from extinction.
> 
> http://www.oh.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/ash_seed.html
> 
> ...


Now *that* is a great idea. I wish the foresters back in the early 1900's had thought of this and saved a couple of warehouses of healthy Chestnuts. I suppose this will work for Walnut as well? 






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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

For wild reading along those lines, try googling "Seed vault"


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

SteveEl said:


> For wild reading along those lines, try googling "Seed vault"


Known about it for a couple years. We have our own too - not in the Arctic but in a deep freeze (and root cellar to backup the backup). My wife has been planting some of them this year just to see how they do. The onions and salad strains are already up. Can't wait to try the beets - we've always heard fresh grown beets are fantastic but we never planted any until this year because neither of us are beet fans. 


Well it's your thread and you started this hijack. Dude you can't give me an inch on a hijack I will take a mile. 




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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

Now that there are 2 topics here:

1. Look at all the wood that sells on fleabay that is not KD like small time millers and turning wood. There is also a very large firewood processor in the east that moves wood by the railcar to other parts of the country. I had some dry wood termites show up in the center of some plum wood from California when I went to use it.

2. I also save seeds in the deep freeze, this is the fifth year for my package of carrots to sprout because who needs to plant 1500 of those suckers at a time in the backyard. I am trying some heirloom tomatoes off seedsavers this year that I can save seed from year after year instead of needing to buy them.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

jeffreythree said:


> I am trying some heirloom tomatoes off seedsavers this year that I can save seed from year after year instead of needing to buy them.


All our seeds are heirloom. She said we have enough to sustain a small commune, and she wasn't kidding. 

Also check out ofthefield.com It's nearly impossible to starve in the wilderness once you know the material. 95% of everything you walk by is either edible or medicinal or useful to your sustenance in one way or another. I thought my USCG survival training taught me some valuable skills but it didn't scratch the surface of what this woman had put together. 





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## drcollins804 (Jan 11, 2008)

North Central part of Kentucky already has the Emerald Ash Borer. It hasn't made an appearance in Western KY yet but they are constantly putting out boxes watching for it. Trying to harvest Ash when there is no market because of the number already harvested makes it seem useless. I am trying to get some if mine sawed before they start dying but it seems almost hopeless. BTW all the window casings and door frames in my house are built from ash that was harvested on the farm when a wind storm in 1991 blew down a bunch of trees. Hope they find something that will control these things but MAN is the main problem. Ask them and they will tell you its not my Problem. I have firewood why would I want to buy some when I get there. I expect ours will come in from a deer hunter coming in for the season and bringing their own wood.
David


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

drcollins804 said:


> . . . . BTW all the window casings and door frames in my house are built from ash that was harvested on the farm when a wind storm in 1991 blew down a bunch of trees. Hope they find something that will control these things . . . .



I don't know if you're thinking your dry Ash lumber is susceptible to infestation but it isn't. The larvae need plenty of moisture and your window casings don't have enough. 





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## drcollins804 (Jan 11, 2008)

TexasTimbers said:


> I don't know if you're thinking your dry Ash lumber is susceptible to infestation but it isn't. The larvae need plenty of moisture and your window casings don't have enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No. I am aware that they only attack living trees. But have a fair number of them on the farm and really don't want to have to cut all of them in a short time. But don't want to lose the lumber either. 
David


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> I think it helps a little, but with something like this I don't think it would make much of a dent.
> There's just too many people......


Yeah, maybe someone else will be a slacker..... but what if they were a slacker because they said to themselves "I can cut corners.... after all, someone's going to sooner or later."

Anyone reading..... Please don't be the guy that moves the bug, even if you think its pointless. 

"Freedom: That which you receive in slightly smaller amount than the personal responsibility you are willing to also accept"

"Everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is VITAL that you do it. History rests on everyone's mostly insignificant doings."


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## smithingman (Jan 8, 2010)

Here in New York we also have the "wooly aelgid" (sp)-which is killing lots of hemlock, along with the emrald ash borer-killing LOTS of trees. A lot of wood from this area goes whole log to Asia-with the bark on it. The Department of Environmental Conservation is only going after the firewood guys, who are small and cannot fight them. The big guys get off pretty easy-there's a big logyard near me that is right alongsida a state highway, with mountains of ash logs and the DEC has never even stopped there to check on bugs. There is about a 1000 acres of woods across from my house (state and private land) and almost all the hemlock is dying-big (2-3 foot + at butt) and little. Very disturbing to watch.
Mark Emig


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## Ibangwood (Feb 25, 2010)

Man this conversation is really bumming me out


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## slabmaster (Mar 30, 2008)

*ash borer*

It's funny how they pass the lasey law and others to protect trees in other countrys but do nothing to protect our trees here. They allow these bugs to enter the country and don't do anything about them when they get here. I lost about 100 big ash trees on my property when they came over here from china on a pallet. What would you do if you lost 100 trees on your property? I milled them up into usable lumber. Just couldn't see letting the just rot in the woods. :yes:


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

slabmaster said:


> . . . I lost about 100 big ash trees on my property when they came over here from china on a pallet. . . .


I've never had the opportunity to talk to someone who has personal experience with this bug. I hope you will entertain my curiosity because a thousand questions popped into my head when I read your post. I will only ask about 100 this time. 


When you first suspected something was wrong, what tipped you off?
When did you realize it was EAB?
What was your first step (call state forester/local ag agent etc)?
What was the first step of containment and what has been done since?
What kind of time frame are we talking about here to lose the 100?
Have you lost all your Ash?
Has there been any cross-contamination? 
How fast does the tree go from healthy to unusable?
How prevalent is it in your local area?
How do you know it came from the pallet?
Did the pallet have a phyto stamp?
Did your state forestry retrace the path of the source (pallet) and implement containment procedures?
Did they turn this over to the state's AG (who would in turn turn it over to various fed dept's)?


That wasn't 100 only 13. Sorry I can't help it. This is an opportunity for all of us to get a first hand education. If you don't have time to answer every question in one sitting just write what you want when you can one post at a time. I'm really interested in this topic. My wife and I have had so much interaction with our county extension agent on various things that we've become friends and this is a topic of great concern to us. This and the Walnut Beetle. 








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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

And I just realized if you do plan to enlighten us you should start a new thread. Entitle it something like "Emerald Ash Borer: 1st Hand Experience." or some such because few people will be able to speak with anyone that has actual experience with it. At least for now. In a few years I guess many of us will. 












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## slabmaster (Mar 30, 2008)

*Ash borer*

So it hasn't gotton to you yet? It will. And it isn't going to be pretty. It killed every tree around me. You can go on line and see the range it has effected so far. By the time i found out about it, all my trees were dead. That's how fast it hits. I killed the big trees first. It doesn't seem to like the smaller ones until they get about 2 or 3 inches in diameter. But then it will get em. My trees were affected around 8 or 10 years ago. They don't ruin the lumber they only effect the cambeium layer just under the bark. When they come , you will see a greenish black beetle that is about 3/8" or longer that is real easy to see. They leave a D shape hole in the outer bark that is easy to see. I do believe they will end up killing every ash tree in the country before it's done. So get ready. You will notice the leaves disappering the first year and almoet no leaves the next. I milled all 100 of my ash trees with my csm and have a couple barns full of lumber. My neighbors still have trees that died 8 years ago standing and falling in storms. So nothing has been done to clear the affected trees in Michigan. I see them all over when driving through the state.Most of them now have vines growing through them to the top.Alot of them have knocked power lines down throughout the state when storms hit. It's a real mess.They pass free trade agreements that bring these invasive bugs and fish to our country and ships our jobs over there. Do you think they are surveing our best interest? Our natural resourses are being distroyed because of it and they aren't doing anything about it. So get ready!


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I'll second that and I bet other Michiganders on this board can add their own stories. My folks are old enough to remember chestnut blight, and I grew up watching massive elms I loved to see come down all over town. Ain't nothing to just shrug off, if you love trees or their products.


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