# Radial Arm Saw



## Bigboat1 (Aug 7, 2015)

So a couple months ago I made the decision to get into this whole wood working thing. I cleaned out my basement and started putting together a bench and assembly table. Now, I didn’t have all the big tools I needed and didn’t want to drop the $ on new stuff so I put it out to friends/family/co-workers that I would be happy to help them remove unwanted and in the way tools. So a guy I work with offered up his radial arm saw for “cheap”. My only experience with one is watching Norm on NYW. It seemed like he used it A LOT. I have read some stuff online about safety or lack of it. I just need some input from people smarter than myself. Are these things as versatile as Norm made them out to be? Are they safe? If I had to, could I replace a table saw with a RAS and a circular saw?
i didnt really ask anything about the particular saw cause i didnt know enough about them to ask.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

A radial arm saw can be handy if you have the space. I have two of them but they are not for everyone. They do so many different things the cheap ones don't stay cutting true and square very well. I've worked for shops that wouldn't have one in the building because they are deemed inherently inaccurate. To get the best use from one set it up as a cut off saw only and the rest of the settings, angles and such tighten it up very tight and don't use the saw for that. The way I have a radial arm saw set up is with a very long table with a tape measure on the fence and I use it for 90 degree cuts only. 

Any saw can be dangerous. When you set one up you make a shallow cut into the wood table of the saw. As long as you never put any body parts over the cut in the table they are safe. The saw has the potential of grabbing the wood and coming forward on it's own very quickly. In that event if you don't have your hands or arm over the cut in the table all that might get injured is the board you are cutting. 

I wouldn't attempt to get rid of a table saw for a radial arm saw. I would be more inclined to get rid of a radial arm saw for a table saw. You can do most anything with a table saw that you can do with a radial arm saw.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

The main thing I use my ras for is crosscutting long boards, and dados.
Cutting a 10' 1x10 in half on a ts is not my idea of fun. But if I could have just 1, it would be a ts.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I love the old Craftsman 12" RAS.*

They were essentially all the same back then, just a bigger, better motor on the 12" models compared to the 10" ones.

Here's why I like them. The RAS cuts from the top down so you can see the cut as it progresses. The table saw starts cutting from the bottom, but eventually you can see the cut progress. The forces are different with each type of saw.

Without getting too technical, you must hold the work securely in and down on a radial arm saw because the blades tendency is to lift the work upward and to travel towards the operator.

The table saw presses the work downward into the table...until it reaches the rear of the blade at which point it "may" tend to lift it upward if there is no splitter or riving knife to keep the kerf open. This is especially important when cutting wood from a tree as opposed to man made materials. The plywoods and sheet goods like MDF and particle board will not close up behind the blade like a stressed piece of Oak or Cherry may.

Why is this important? It's about kickback. There are way more kickback injuries than flesh cutting injuries and most go unreported because... no stitches are required. :no:

The RAS can do a whole bunch of things that would require some creative jigs on a table saw, BUT the thing it does best of all is crosscut. :yes: Longer planks are heavy and have momentum when trying to cut them on a table saw unless you have miter gauge fence addition of 36" or longer and even then it's still awkward.

To put it simply ....tablesaws rip best and come with a "rip" fence. RAS's crosscut best and have a fence that's 90 degress to the blade when locked in at 90.

There some You Tube videos that demonstrate the use of a RAS, but not all are what I would consider the best of information. It's quite a complex piece of machinery, but when tuned and adjust correctly a real asset to a woodworking shop. I have several.... :smile:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Using the proper blade is very important, it should have a negative rake, much of the bad rap came from using a common positive rake blade.
As has been mentioned they are tricky to keep aligned, I locked mine for square cut-offs and used a jig to make angled cuts.
http://sawdustmaking.com/Radial Arm Saws/radial_arm_saws.html#Miter Gauge
Can't beat them for cutting dados for bookshelves, etc. you get to see exactly what you are doing.
I still have mine in a shed, just in case I have to cut a bunch of dados, when I got my sliding miter saw it sort of became redundant.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

The whole "radial arms saws are unsafe thing" seems to have been generated when they were marketed as the do-everything toll, and people were misusing them because of that. With the proper blade and knowledge of where to put your hands and how to feed the work, its as safe as any other whirling bit of metal.

As far as how beneficial they are, a RAS can do nearly everything a table saw can, just has different ways of doing it, and some limitations a table saw doesn't. Ripping, for example, is don't by locking the saw head to the rails, rotating the head 90 degrees and feeding the wood from side to side along the table. Workable? Yes, but different than a table saw. 

If you don't have anything else, a radial is a decent enough place to start. Personally I prefer a table saw, but again, gotta do what works


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

I've been thinking about getting one and keeping a Dado stack in it. An old DeWalt, because they look so dang cool. 

It certainly won't replace a table saw, though.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I run a posative hook blade on my 3hp dewalt GA.

No issues.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> ....Without getting too technical, you must hold the work securely in and down on a radial arm saw because the blades tendency is to lift the work upward and to travel towards the operator......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8In_nKqW1DA

a RAS's down and in towards the fence blade motion keeps material on the table. a TS's blade first contacts a work piece from below the table as the blade's teeth rotate towards the operator. if those teeth are askew relative to the work piece (fence to blade misalignment), the piece will kick back towards the operator (the blades rear teeth actually throw it in the direction of the operator). RAS's have a lesser tendency to kick back because the blade's teeth first contact the top of the work piece, pulling it down on to the table and in towards the fence.




WarnerConstInc. said:


> I run a posative hook blade on my 3hp dewalt GA.
> 
> No issues.


the only issue that i've noticed, with stack dadoes, is that if too aggressive a cut is attempted, the motor carriage may try to accelerate towards the operator because the teeth are slowed when they encounter too much material too quickly but the motor wants to keep spinning. a firm hand on the motor carriage usually addresses this issue, as will making the cut progressively. like Warner, i use a positive hook blade for crosscutting with no ill effects. however, a negative hook angle blade is recommended.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

toolguy1000 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8In_nKqW1DA
> 
> a RAS's down and in towards the fence blade motion keeps material on the table. a TS's blade first contacts a work piece from below the table as the blade's teeth rotate towards the operator. if those teeth are askew relative to the work piece (fence to blade misalignment), the piece will kick back towards the operator (the blades rear teeth actually throw it in the direction of the operator). RAS's have a lesser tendency to kick back because the blade's teeth first contact the top of the work piece, pulling it down on to the table and in towards the fence.


On a tablesaw the teeth moving up from below the table don't contact the wood unless fence registration is not maintained, thus the reason a splitter or riving knife is so successful in preventing kickbacks. The reason RAS have no tendency to kick back is because there is a fence holding the workpiece from moving the direction it would kick back. Instead, it can have the tendency to self feed, and I've even seen the blade climb on top of the workpiece and drive to the end of the carriage travel.


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## Minnesota Marty (Feb 27, 2015)

I have several RAS. I use two all the time. One for crosscutting material and one has a dado stack in it. 
I am in the process of rebuilding/refurbishing a Dewalt 790, which IMO is a fantastic machine. That one will become my everyday user. I make sure on any tool I own that the cutting tool is sharp. A sharp tool is a safe tool. 
If you have the room I think that they are great. I do use mine for ripping plywood although now I use a track saw mostly for that. 

Marty


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Question for guys with 1 1/2 hp and larger ras's. Does the blade try to self feed, aka, ride over the wood? I think with a higher powered saw, it wouldn't happen.
Using a lower powered saw, you have to put effort into feeding very slow.
To help this, on a Craftsman ras, I had, I put a bungi cord on the motor carriage, so it took much more effort to move it. It worked great to control feed.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

d_slat said:


> On a tablesaw the teeth moving up from below the table don't contact the wood unless fence registration is not maintained, thus the reason a splitter or riving knife is so successful in preventing kickbacks. The reason RAS have no tendency to kick back is because there is a fence holding the workpiece from moving the direction it would kick back. Instead, it can have the tendency to self feed, and I've even seen the blade climb on top of the workpiece and drive to the end of the carriage travel.


I keep hearing this climbing story, yet have used one for years and never experienced it. 
Having built and maintained machinery for a living I can't see how that could happen unless some of the adjustments are extremely loose as I doubt there is enough flex in the metal parts to allow this. Not saying it didn't happen, just don't understand how.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

FrankC said:


> I keep hearing this climbing story, yet have used one for years and never experienced it.
> Having built and maintained machinery for a living I can't see how that could happen unless some of the adjustments are extremely loose as I doubt there is enough flex in the metal parts to allow this. Not saying it didn't happen, just don't understand how.


I think climbing is the a common term. I run a 12 Delta. It won't climb but can try to rise and jamb into the material. only time I had a problem was when the stock wasn't firmly against the fence and tried to pull it in causing it to jamb. 

On thick stock I take it slow.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Pirate said:


> Question for guys with 1 1/2 hp and larger ras's. Does the blade try to self feed, aka, ride over the wood? I think with a higher powered saw, it wouldn't happen.
> Using a lower powered saw, you have to put effort into feeding very slow.
> To help this, on a Craftsman ras, I had, I put a bungi cord on the motor carriage, so it took much more effort to move it. It worked great to control feed.


My 3hp GA does not seem to want to come at you, but it is heavy and it has the tension return cable as well.

My little 925 dewalt 3/4hp could be stalled out feeding it to fast and get some stuff wedged up.

I think my Everlast blade is only a 5 degree positive hook.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

FrankC said:


> I keep hearing this climbing story, yet have used one for years and never experienced it.
> Having built and maintained machinery for a living I can't see how that could happen unless some of the adjustments are extremely loose as I doubt there is enough flex in the metal parts to allow this. Not saying it didn't happen, just don't understand how.


I've seen it happen twice on 2 different saws. I believe they both had crummy blades and we're both craftsman RAS out of the 80s. Nothing was loose, there was just enough flex in the metal parts when the saw was pulled out over half way for the blade to climb on top of the workpiece. There may have been some operator error involved also but I wasn't the one operating the saw so I don't know for sure.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*these are two different issues...*



Pirate said:


> Question for guys with 1 1/2 hp and larger ras's. *Does the blade try to self feed*, aka,
> 
> * ride over the wood*? I think with a higher powered saw, it wouldn't happen.
> .


A positive hook blade may tend to self feed, so a stiff arm control is needed. A negative hook blade should not self feed. MY sliding miter saws have negative hook blades. My RAS doesn't have one .... yet.

If you place a pry board under the motor of the saw, on a block and you can lift the carriage up more than 1/32" or so....you have a problem and saw needs adjusting. This is the first thing I would do when acquiring a used saws, or running a tune up on an existing one. NO loose carriages allowed OR you may get a ride up condition.

The carriage has four V groove rollers and can be adjusted for side to side play, but there is not much adjustment vertically, if that is the issue. The entire arm may have play vertically out of the bottom of the column OR at the pivot head, another place to check it. Stand on the table and try to dead lift the arm and column up.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Pirate said:


> Question for guys with 1 1/2 hp and larger ras's. Does the blade try to self feed, aka, ride over the wood? I think with a higher powered saw, it wouldn't happen.
> Using a lower powered saw, you have to put effort into feeding very slow.
> To help this, on a Craftsman ras, I had, I put a bungi cord on the motor carriage, so it took much more effort to move it. It worked great to control feed.


Yes it can do that. I've gotten in a hurry and pulled the saw a little fast and had it grab the wood and run completely over the board without cutting it. It just made indentations where the teeth pressed into the wood.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> Yes it can do that. I've gotten in a hurry and pulled the saw a little fast and had it grab the wood and run completely over the board without cutting it. It just made indentations where the teeth pressed into the wood.


Wow !
What model saw was that.
Something must be seriously worn, or the arm or column had to have flexed. Or carriage bearings very very loose.
I've had it try to self feed and stall the motor.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

Pirate said:


> Wow !
> What model saw was that.
> Something must be seriously worn, or the arm or column had to have flexed. Or carriage bearings very very loose.
> I've had it try to self feed and stall the motor.


You also have to think of workpiece thickness and hardness. If you were trying to cut a 1" piece of hardwood it would be much harder to do than if cutting a 1/2" piece of softer wood.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Pirate said:


> Wow !
> What model saw was that.
> Something must be seriously worn, or the arm or column had to have flexed. Or carriage bearings very very loose.
> I've had it try to self feed and stall the motor.


No it wasn't worn or loose it just had enough flex in it to do that. It was a craftsman 113.199200. 

After the event it just needed a little squaring and it was good to go again. That pales in comparison one model delta arm saw I used when I worked for someone else. Twice the carriage bearings broke and the saw came off the arm as I was using it. The third time it happened the boss was running it and the saw was gone the next day.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> No it wasn't worn or loose it just had enough flex in it to do that. It was a craftsman 113.199200.
> 
> After the event it just needed a little squaring and it was good to go again. That pales in comparison one model delta arm saw I used when I worked for someone else. Twice the carriage bearings broke and the saw came off the arm as I was using it. The third time it happened the boss was running it and the saw was gone the next day.


Ever figure out what flexed?
My guess is the tin base the post is bolted to.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Pirate said:


> Ever figure out what flexed?
> My guess is the tin base the post is bolted to.


No, it happens so fast you don't see anything. It's been so many years since the last time it happened I wouldn't remember anyway. Probably before that happens again I will have my 16" Dewalt saw up and running. I kinda doubt if it would happen with that saw.


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## rcp612 (Mar 25, 2008)

My only thoughts about this subject are: My Father had a radial arm saw (I believe PowerCraft from Montgomery Ward?) and a table saw of the same manufacture. His choice was always the RAS and he taught me to use it *correctly*. Never a problem such as has been mentioned or any other problems occurred. With the use of outfeed supports he also used the RAS for ripping as did I with no problems. As a matter of fact, since I only have one arm, the RAS worked out to be safer/easier than a table saw.
My only regret is letting his tools be sold at his passing as I'd love to have that RAS right now.
My personal thought is if you're afraid to use something, don't. As Norm says, read and understand the manual and get experienced guidance as needed.


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## MEP1 (Aug 14, 2015)

rcp612 said:


> As Norm says, read and understand the manual and get experienced guidance as needed.


"...and remember to always wear these..." oints to regular glasses: "...safety glasses."


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

I would never suggest a RAS as an addition for someone. The reasons have already been mentioned by others in the last 2 pages. 

For a first tool I'd suggest a good TS.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Chamfer said:


> I would never suggest a RAS as an *addition* for someone. The reasons have already been mentioned by others in the last 2 pages.
> 
> For a *first too*l I'd suggest a good TS.


Do you own one?

You seem to have your ideas conflicting here. A first tool, probably not. An addition .... most definitely, based on having several. There are wives tales about them jumping on top of the workpiece and usually followed by ...happened a long time ago, not my saw, not sure why, flexing base etc. Nobody died or cut their arm off. Improper use, lack of maintenance and adjustment can not be blamed on the tool. 

The RAS is a complex machine compared to a table saw and it must be operated, adjusted and maintained properly. If you don't understand all that, it's best not to own it.

There are good ones and not so good ones, like any machine. Get a good one, and you will have no issues.
Every lumber yard I have ever visited had one, and they used it all the time to shorten 2X planks. Even my Home Depot has one, but it's all but buried in warning signs about employee use only, and guards to protect them. 

I would not have a wood shop without one. Before I owned a sliding miter or chop saw, I took my RAS apart and carried up on a two story scaffold to cut Cedar siding at various angles. It was heavy for certain, but I was stronger and more motivated then. Now days, I'd use a 18 V battery saw and a guide. :yes:

Edit: No one has ever mentioned the table as being a cause of the override. If the table is loose, can twist or drop that will certainly cause the saw to jamb and over ride the work.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

I still take my 925 on site with me.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> Do you own one?
> 
> You seem to have your ideas conflicting here. A first tool, probably not. An addition .... most definitely, based on having several. There are wives tales about them jumping on top of the workpiece and usually followed by ...happened a long time ago, not my saw, not sure why, flexing base etc. Nobody died or cut their arm off. Improper use, lack of maintenance and adjustment can not be blamed on the tool.
> 
> ...





Gary, you and most others know where I stand and why on RAS's. It may not be your your opinion and that's ok.

There are other tools that do the same and/or more than a RAS can do, and are a lot less problematic and hazardous. I've never been a fan of a "one tool does all" mindset, which is what RAS's were advertised as. As you've seen even here, most guys that do have and use them use them strictly for one thing and keep them set up that way because they are so unrulely, which negates the whole multi-purpose aspect. 

Then there's the whole physics behind how a circular blade is intended/designed to be used issue. I wouldn't run my ciruclar saw backwards through a piece of wood just like I wouldn't run a piece of wood through the TS starting from the out feed side.

Lastly, the idea that you need to own a tool in order to be able to comment on it is absurd at the least. You only buy a tool if you like the tool. Having used, watched used and been around RAS's for years leads me to have an opinion on them. I don't own one because I don't like them. Really, why would someone who doesn't like a certain tool own one?


If you own and like a RAS good for you, as I've said before. I don't think any less of anyone who does. I just think there are some valid reasons NOT to own one as well.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I'm not Gary*

I would certainly not advocate having one If you were not so inclined. :no: 
I am merely pointing out that there are some legends about them being unsafe that have to do with the adjustments, maintenance and possibly the misuse of them that have caused issues. The very same is true of a table saw. If it ain't adjusted correctly you WILL have an issue. That's all. :smile:


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> I am merely pointing out that there are some legends about them being unsafe that have to do with the adjustments, maintenance and possibly the misuse of them that have caused issues.





I wouldn't call them "legends". Are some experiences that have been mentioned due to your above mentioned? Sure. All of them? Certainly not. I guess that's where our opinions differ. I see that as a scapegoat. 

IMHO the intended use and design of the RAS is not a sound physical idea. And that is my biggest peeve with them.

I understand what you're saying about being adjusted correctly, and you're absolutely right. That's true of any tool.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You've probably got a big 16" one also*



WarnerConstInc. said:


> I still take my 925 on site with me.


There's a swing saw variant that's hinged at the top and you pull it back like a RAS. My doormaker buddy has one in addition to a huge 16" Dewalt. There is nothing better to cut 6/4 and up planks to length. They are so versatile that I have made several machines using the carriages. A RAR or radial arm router is one, a 2 axis panel saw is another, and a rail saw is a third.

Here's an interesting article:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/29415/is-the-radial-arm-saw-on-its-last-legs


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Chamfer said:


> I wouldn't call them "legends". Are some experiences that have been mentioned due to your above mentioned? Sure. All of them? Certainly not. I guess that's where our opinions differ. I see that as a scapegoat.
> 
> IMHO the intended use and design of the RAS is not a sound physical idea. And that is my biggest peeve with them.
> 
> I understand what you're saying about being adjusted correctly, and you're absolutely right. That's true of any tool.


I never had any intentions of getting a RAS 4 years ago. 

I got a mbf and 925 a year ago. They were great, which made me want a big machine. 

There are cuts that I can't make on anything else.

The cutting motion and direction naturally pushes the work piece against the fence.

My 14" dewalt ga is a fantastic saw for more then just rough cross cutting.


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## Chamfer (Sep 6, 2014)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I never had any intentions of getting a RAS 4 years ago.
> 
> I got a mbf and 925 a year ago. They were great, which made me want a big machine.
> 
> ...





I'm happy you're happy. :smile:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*are we all happy now?*

I found this dead thread from a while back. cabinetman's comments about the saw riding up over the work are relevant here from post no. 16:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/craftsman-radial-arm-saw-113-23111-a-56840/

Quoting:
The saw cannot climb over the board and come at you. The motor/saw assembly is a fixed distance between the table and the arm, and does not move up and over a board when cutting. If it does that more than one attachment point is loose or not connected, and in that case the saw should not be used anyway. A dull blade, or pulling too fast may cause some resistance which may put an upward pressure on the motor, but in no way will it climb over a board. It may just feel like it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The trouble is if you had it happen to you with different saws you can't say it can't happen. Otherwise I wouldn't believe it possible either and for the same reasons. I don't know what but something gives. It's not 1 1/2" thick material being cut anyway. It was 3/4" or thinner stock. It may be the saw bends a little up and the wooden table below it bends down too. I've never used a saw that didn't use 3/4" plywood for the table.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it can't happen ....but IF it does....*

You only quoted part of that statement. It can't happen to a well adjusted saw. The thinner the material the more like it WILL happen on a poorly adjusted saw. This is why way back in the thread I suggested either lifting up on the arm and carriage OR putting a pry piece under it and pressing down to see if it will move up.

I totally believe it happened to you Steve, but it's not a normal condition. It requires something to be loose and not adjusted properly. You can't fit two hard objects in a space that limited to the thickness of one without a way for one to move. 

This is why the dang thing gets a bad rap. The other is when people who don't know how to set one up and operate it, try to rip on them and things go wrong. I've ripped hundreds of feet on mine when it was set up to straight line rip with a 28 ft long fence and table. Cabinetman got all pissy about me posting that since he thought it was unsafe and newbies would not get it right. Other folks chimed in and told their stories how they also ripped with theirs successfully. 

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/










So, it will always be a source of disagreement, but I will maintain it's a valuable tool when used correctly by someone who understands how to adjust it and how to set it up for the various operations it can perform. Most folks do not bother to learn all this and they end up selling theirs or giving it away. I've got some great deals off Craig's List on them over the years and know what to look for. :yes:

Here's a conversion I made for a router on the carriage:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/radial-arm-router-build-50176/


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm sorry but it can happen to a properly set up home model saw. My saw is in good working order with no looseness in the carriage bearings. Also since I only cross cut with a radial arm saw the rest of the settings are set overly tight. Something has to be just bending because there is little or no re-adjusting of the saw after the event. I've only experienced this on home model saws, my craftsman and a delta saw from a previous employer. I believe it can't happen with professional grade saw. They are just more rigid.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Can you move the carriage up?*

Can you lift the carriage either by hand or using a pry piece and move the carriage off the table any? If it moves more than 1/32" something isn't right. If you think the cast iron column or the cast iron arm is bending I would have to disagree. If the column is moving at the base where it attaches to the steel frame, then check those bolts for tightness. 

If the steel rails or not screwed onto the arm securely that may where the issue is, I donno, but it's not likely. 
There is only so many places that any movement can occur, the base of the column, the head of the column where the arm attaches and the carriage system. In the carriage there is a center pivot bolt, and if that is loose, that would allow movement. Finally, all the locks must be engaged except the horizontal travel. The tilt pivot and lock must also be engaged. If you can grasp the blade and cover and get any movement either by tilting, lifting or twisting something ain't right. :no:

I doubt seriously if anything is "bending" as you suggest, but I could be wrong. I think something just isn't snugged up tight. Another test would be to place a 1/4: piece on the table and see if you can Manually roll the blade up on top of it. That shouldn't happen either, something ain't right.

I would suggest these tests for anyone who owns a RAS, especially someone who just bought a used one. BTW, I have never seen them mentioned in the owner's manual or operating instructions. :no:

Here's a pretty good tune up and adjustment for anyone who owns a RAS:
http://www.eberhardt.bz/GME_Wood_Land/GME_Woodworking_Stuff/2_Tool_Tune_Ups/7_Tuneup_Radial.pdf


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The saw has new carriage bearings on it right now so I'm not going to pry on it. I've had the saw since I think 1972 and it's as tight as if it were new. What I can tell you is an hour ago I thought about it and without straining I could lift the end of the arm 1/4" to 3/8". It may be cutting thin wood the the carriage bearings give a little, the arm bends up while the table bends down. Without purposely doing with one of those high speed cameras it wouldn't be possible to ever know. I don't have the camera and I wouldn't purposely ever do it. Even by accident it is abusing the saw and you risk breaking the carriage bearings. That is an experience nobody should have.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I think posts by the naysayer's, about the evils of ras's, and that no one should own one, are great.
It gives the people, who understand, and know how to use a ras, a better chance of picking up a great older, high quality ras.
As Clint said, "A man's got to know his limitations"


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

If you are really worried bout cutting with a radial arm, make it into a drum sander::laughing:
http://www.google.com.ar/patents/US4720940


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I tested my RASs*

I put a 1 X 2 on a small block and tried to lever up the carriage on two different RAS. It did "flex" just a tiny bit and that's what I expected, about a dime thickness or so.
There were no sudden jumps like a loose set screw or bad bearings. What I did think of was if the elevation crank was fully loaded in the "up" position then there would be no lash in the gears. If it were in the "lower" position there may be some play to take up before you can raise it up. This may be enough to cause an issue.

These saws are the earlier all cast iron column versions, not the later model 2 piece clamp column versions. So that may also make a difference, I donno?


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm not by any means saying RAS are evil or you shouldn't own one or anything like that. I was just responding to another member's comments that made a RAS sound like it was a better and safer tool than a tablesaw because a tablesaw can kick back. I personally have used multiple RAS and never had any issues while operating the saw. I have just witnessed others having issues.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

The first major power tool I purchased new was a Radial Arm Saw. Over 40 years later, I still have the tool and it's never been in the shop. It's been a great tool and has helped me with many projects. 
But tools have changed and new tools have been introduced. If I was buying a new tool today, I would buy a good new 12" compound miter saw. I've worked with these just enough to say I really like them. They will do everything my old RA saw will do and are more portable. You can set them up in a bench where they become a semi-permanent stationary tool, but they can still be removed from the bench and taken to a job-site. 
I think radial arm saws are old school now.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the swing saw for crosscutting*

http://www.hasaws.com/

My door maker buddy has one like this. Because the weight is pretty much counterbalanced, there is less inertia to deal with from sliding a 5HP motor and carriage in a production shop. This makes it easier for faster cuts. He also has a large 16" RAS to deal with 8/4 planks, cutting them to length, to be made into doors. There is no better or safer way to make a crosscut on a plank that weighs 100 lbs and over.

Here's my reasoning for owning one in addition to my tablesaws. Tablesaws "rip" best and come with a rip fence. RASs crosscut best and are set up with the blade at 90 degrees to the fence. You can both rip and crosscut on either, but each is much better at one operation than the other.

Here's my 12" Craftsman RAS, with a long extended table to the left for supporting planks and other heavy or longer pieces:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/radial-arm-saw-tabletop-15490/


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*where do you keep it?*



Toolman50 said:


> The first major power tool I purchased new was a Radial Arm Saw. Over 40 years later, *I still have the tool and it's never been in the shop.* It's been a great tool and has helped me with many projects.
> But tools have changed and new tools have been introduced. If I was buying a new tool today, I would buy a good new 12" compound miter saw. I've worked with these just enough to say I really like them. They will do everything my old RA saw will do and are more portable. You can set them up in a bench where they become a semi-permanent stationary tool, but they can still be removed from the bench and taken to a job-site. *
> I think radial arm saws are old school now*.


For the job site, there is no better tool than a sliding miter saw because you can carry it around. The RAS was never intended to be portable. You won't find a cabinet shop, door making shop or a lumber mill, that doesn't have a long table setup for a RAS strictly for crosscutting. I've been to many over the years and they all have them.










They were indeed sold or marketed as a "one tool" does it all for the home shop market. Wards, and Sears had all sorts of them in various sizes and prices. Then contractors need something lighter and more portable for on site work and they got superceded or replaced.
My shop has several RAS and 2 sliding mitersaws and a few table saws. One of the table saws, a Bosh 4100 and the Bosch slider are "portable", or can be carried by one person for on site work.

I built a garage one time using my RAS out side with a 10 ft table extension. I ripped sheet goods and crosscut on it for the entire project. It was a huge asset for cutting studs to length with the long fence and a stop block. It couldn't be easier or faster. No measuring, just run the piece gently into the stop and cut it off. :yes:


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*RAS's Rock!*

Couldn't live without mine... :smile:


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Toolman50 said:


> I would buy a good new 12" compound miter saw. I've worked with these just enough to say I really like them. They will do everything my old RA saw will do and are more portable.



How would you cut dado's with a compound miter saw? Dado's are one of the things a compound miter saw can's do. Most sliding miter saws can't either. I think I heard that a Festo slider can, but at a $1500 cost. 

I had to cut about 8 dados in 4, 8' 2x4's, to make a drying rack for small doors.
Ganged them together and cut them all on my ras, in less than 10 minutes. (more like 5) And that was 1"(+/-) deep dados, done in 3 passes for each dado.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Well I'm wondering why few are made these days. Glad I don't need one. 

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Pirate said:


> How would you cut dado's with a compound miter saw? Dado's are one of the things a compound miter saw can's do. Most sliding miter saws can't either. I think I heard that a Festo slider can, but at a $1500 cost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like to use an exact width dado fixture and a small router to cut my dados. I haven't found anything better as of late.

Al


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

A radial arm saw with a depth stop on the post and a stop on the carriage for blind dados on a stand with stops is about the best system I have used, tried all the router gadgets but wasn't impressed.
If I was going to use a router I would want the system Bill (Woodnthings) built for his radial arm saw so I could see what I was doing.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*we don't need no stinkin' routers*

I came up with this method for making equally spaced shelves using a radial arm saw, a dado head and a stop "slot" on the fence. This allows the exact spacing to be made on both pieces, usually the difficult part, unless you go all the way across with a router. 
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/shelf-spacing-made-simple-using-ras-47095/

Of course that router gizmo I made comes in handy for other operations like mortising, making "T" slots or keyway slots for hanging stuff, but honestly I don't use it all that much, but I'm on a woodworking leave of absence for the summer, and on a truck restoration project full time at the moment. 

I would like to make a zero clearance router jig also, but I'm not making many cabinets anymore. :smile:


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

I think it's evident from the last few post, there are some things best done on a radial arm saw. Like I said earlier, I've never been without a RAS. 
I think you've convinced me that I would not be able to entirely replace my old RAS with a new 12" compound miter. There are just too many things the RAS is just the best choice for. So, instead of replacing a tool, once again it's best to just add a new tool. 
This is why this forum rocks. Good information.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Most people don't take the time to get the most from a RAS as far as precision and usage. I personally use it for shelves,drawers,dentil molding,etc where I can leave the other equipment alone and use them at will. Because its used for tedious things and such it doesn't hurt to tie it up with dado's or stops and use the other tooling for whatever comes up. Now i have a router table or two and a router in the tablesaw. 

Now you can make dado's with a slider but it takes time as you can only make one pass at a time. Now I have a 24" PC dovetail machine that cost plenty and will see less usage than my RAS.

Now for those who couldn't get a 10" RAS to work for nothing.....Go to a 12" or larger. Its like going from a bench top saw to a full cabinet saw...

I think they tried to replace the RAS with a sidekick at one time but even though it was neat the slider easily replaced it. But the RAS has never truly been replaced....


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

FrankC said:


> A radial arm saw with a depth stop on the post and a stop on the carriage for blind dados on a stand with stops is about the best system I have used, tried all the router gadgets but wasn't impressed.
> If I was going to use a router I would want the system Bill (Woodnthings) built for his radial arm saw so I could see what I was doing.



With the exact width fixture I cut over 400 dados all but a few were 24" long. Does the RAS cut that long? This isn't a gadget and it requires no measuring to set the width. The trial cut was a waste of time because it was a perfect fit every time. I used one of those smaller Porter Cable routers too. 

Al


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

A good addition to a ras is a depth stop for cutting more than 1 deep dado, which requires multable passes.
Also a router can be mounted off the side of it. The older Craftsman routers have a flat bottom motor, which has 2 threaded holes, waiting for a router mount, like I made in the picture. The ras can still be used with the router in place.


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

Well, now I have to go through and re-read this thread because I got a freebie coming. I just missed out on a free RAS on a local message board a month ago, and I got an email yesterday from another guy offering one to me. 

Go Mort.


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## 4DThinker (Mar 13, 2013)

I also started out collecting tools with a Sears RAS and mine still gets used nearly every day for crosscuts, short 90 degree dados/lap joints (with a wobble blade) and the occasional compound cut that my non-sliding miter saw can't handle. Nice that several years ago they replaced the bed and blade guard for free. 

Where I work we've thrown out more sliding compound saws than any other tool simply because the sliding mechanisms had or developed too much play to remain accurate. Our RASaws get abused (by college students) but still prove invaluable when needed.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Mort said:


> Well, now I have to go through and re-read this thread because I got a freebie coming. I just missed out on a free RAS on a local message board a month ago, and I got an email yesterday from another guy offering one to me.
> 
> Go Mort.


There is a lot of information out there, you just have sort through it, there are a few individuals that have made it their life's work condemning them and you know if you read it on the internet it must be true.

Take your time and set the saw up, use a negative rake blade, you will find the saw very useful at what it does best.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Pirate said:


> A good addition to a ras is a depth stop for cutting more than 1 deep dado, which requires multable passes.
> 
> Also a router can be mounted off the side of it. The older Craftsman routers have a flat bottom motor, which has 2 threaded holes, waiting for a router mount, like I made in the picture. The ras can still be used with the router in place.



Now your talking.

Al


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## kansas0222 (Nov 7, 2015)

I have 4, 3working and an 1957 dewalt mbf I am restoring. the older of the three working is a 1967 craftsman radial 100 cast iron arm and dead accurate.my table saw sets in the corner collecting dust most of the time. sharp blades and dead-on adjustments and most important as with any power tool use safety devices and common sence..


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## barneyr20 (Nov 30, 2015)

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum and fairly new to woodworking. I was recently given a Craftsman 10" RAS which included the new safety recall parts along with some new parts the previous owner purchased. One of the new parts is a brake shoe for the miter lock. He did not know how to replace this part nor do I. I have the owners manual that shows where it should go but can not seem to figure out exactly where. Previous owner removed the old one some how so seeing where the old one was, taking out and replacing is not an option. Thanks for any input.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

kansas0222 said:


> I have 4, 3working and an 1957 dewalt mbf I am restoring. the older of the three working is a 1967 craftsman radial 100 cast iron arm and dead accurate.my table saw sets in the corner collecting dust most of the time. sharp blades and dead-on adjustments and most important as with any power tool use safety devices and common sence..


I've had a number of older (late 60's) Craftsman ras's. And now have a Dewalt MBF.
if you like the Craftsman, you will love the MBF !


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