# Gluing end grain to end grain.



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Yes I know that it's stupid but in order to get the pattern I'm looking for I need to do it.

I'm making chopsticks as they're super easy to make and are great gifts. I'm using 5/16ths by 5/16ths scrap poplar (I'm not going to use good wood until I find a way that will work.) glued at a 50 degree angle. I've tried Titebond III, two kinds of white glue, superglue and even 2p10. So I'm just wondering if anybody has found a way to glue end grain to end grain that actually works. This is exactly the reason why there are so many joints, because gluing end grain is incredibly difficult. Anybody here got some advice?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You need to do some kind of finger joint to make it work. Regardless of what glue you use end to end won't work.


----------



## ducbsa (Jul 6, 2014)

Do you mean a scarf joint?


----------



## freedhardwoods (Sep 7, 2008)

Would a finger joint work?


----------



## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

We used a scarf joint and Araldite to join end grain for a pair of oars for my dinghy. Also put in a couple of copper rivets. Never had any trouble.
johnep


----------



## J_L (Apr 22, 2014)

Why do you have to glue anything for chopsticks? Is it not a shaped piece that is roughly 1/4 x 1/4 x 10"?


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm sure you have seen this before. Companies that make just about anything wood will utilize wooden scraps by using finger joints for end to end gluing. It's used a lot making molding and it's even gotten to a point where it's difficult to buy a door jamb that isn't finger jointed. It holds well for a long time. The cut is done with a router which the bit is easily found.


----------



## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

Depending on your skills, you could drill into the pieces you wish to join, and use dowels.


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

J_L said:


> Why do you have to glue anything for chopsticks? Is it not a shaped piece that is roughly 1/4 x 1/4 x 10"?


That was exactly my first thought. I have eaten with many chop sticks and have never seen one made from more than 1 piece of wood.

George


----------



## m.n.j.chell (May 12, 2016)

"Harbor Freight" sticks ... one piece, plain ... use 'em and toss 'em.

Top of the line sticks are used and washed, like fine silver.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Well it is 1/4 at the end but I make mine to taper down to an 1/8th for the tip. I don't technically have to glue anything, but using discoloured wood glued together produces a "Fancier" product that just generally looks cool.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Yeah pretty much, thanks for reminding me of the correct term. I was just going to call it an angled butt joint.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Due to the small size of me pieces I don't think that would work that well. But I'll give it a shot anyway. Thanks!


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Araldite eh? I'll look into it, Thanks!


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Ah door jambs... I actually work in a door shop so if it's not finger jointed it's either crazy expensive or just MDF/ low grade plywood, kinda sad really. I'll look into getting a bit for finger joints as they come in handy for many other things as well. Thanks!


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

I was debating this but when I plane the piece I don't the dowel showing so it would have to be a very small dowel. I usually make my own dowels so this could certainly be interesting. Thanks! 

Oh and your diagram is actually the same pattern I'm trying to make by the way!


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

I normally make mine from a single piece but I'm just trying to make something "Fancier".


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Your talking the super darn diddly fancy dancy chopsticks mate! Traditional lacquered Japanese chopsticks are made with mother of pearl laid on the wood and then crazy amounts of handmade lacquer are wiped of coat after coat until the piece is flush with the mother of pearl "overlay". Producing a product that essentially looks like the ones you have pictured. Life goals mate, I'll give that a shot one day... Until then I'm just trying to make my "Harbor Freight" chopsticks look a little nicer.


----------



## ducbsa (Jul 6, 2014)

WeebyWoodWorker said:


> Araldite eh? I'll look into it, Thanks!


That is British for "epoxy".


----------



## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks, understood Araldite developed for the Mosquito plane. It was in the early 50s, so perhaps Araldite was the first brand.
johnep


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

johnep1934 said:


> Thanks, understood Araldite developed for the Mosquito plane. It was in the early 50s, so perhaps Araldite was the first brand.
> johnep


Mosquite was used in WWII therefore before 50's.

George


----------



## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

The Mosquito aeroplane was produced by De Haviland using wood as alloy in short supply.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m....69i57j0l5.10710j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

johnep


----------



## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Instead of trying to join chopsticks why not try laminating with different types of veneers? Sure sounds much easier than trying to butt joint 1/4" strips


----------



## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

For me...whenever I read quesitons or here conversation about 箸 (Hashi) or there related kin in Korea, and China I think the first practical place to look and ask questions is of the cultures that created and used them (and still do.)

Well...Duh Jay...but not everyone thinks like a geek weirdo like you...Is usually the response I get in person...haha...

Believe it or not this has come up quite a few times over the years, and I agree...these make AWESOME!!! and simple (kind of simple maybe?) gifts to make for folks...

As to method of end grain gluing...It doesn't work alone, but with joinery as suggested and the same joints used in timber framing (like Scarfs) are some of the joinery employed, and the glue employed (traditionally) is a fish skin glue most commonly perhaps but there are other formulations as well including Lacquering Glues...(Urushiol-based.)

Small pinning methods also are used, and perhaps most common is that the entire "blank" is one piece and not several. The other woods, bone, shell, metal, glass, ceramic, textile, is carved in or inlayed...

Not much help, but I did my best...


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Good wikipedia writup on chopsticks. 

Disposable chopsticks are found in the great majority of oriental restaurants in the far east. Top of the line restaurants may sometimes have the more expensive, lacquered or metal chop sticks. I do not remember eating in a restaurant that had other than the disposable kink.

I doubt that even any of the more expensive chopsticks are make with jointed wood. The process is just to work intensive to be worth the cost. Bamboo is frequently used and then decorated with pearl, jade, etc and then lacquered. 

George


----------



## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

GeorgeC said:


> ...I doubt that even any of the more expensive chopsticks are make with jointed wood...


???...Some are, as I described below, and in some regions there are Artisan that make their living from these finer examples of the utensil...


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

GeorgeC said:


> Good wikipedia writup on chopsticks.
> 
> Disposable chopsticks are found in the great majority of oriental restaurants in the far east. Top of the line restaurants may sometimes have the more expensive, lacquered or metal chop sticks. I do not remember eating in a restaurant that had other than the disposable kink.
> 
> ...


 Disposable chopsticks are well, disposable. As a guy who eats everything with chopsticks (Because I'm a weeb) I have my own personal pair that I use. Most people who also regularly use chopsticks also have one or two personal pairs that they use. For restaurants many do indeed used disposable ones but that doesn't mean that's a good thing. Most fancy chopsticks are yeah, made of decorated bamboo but I'm a woodworker mate. I don't want to just paint bamboo, I want to make something overly complicated out of crazy material. Why? Because I can.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

allpurpose said:


> Instead of trying to join chopsticks why not try laminating with different types of veneers? Sure sounds much easier than trying to butt joint 1/4" strips


I did that but I didn't really like it. I could just use different wood then I did before (I really don't like planing mahogany) but it isn't the pattern I'm looking for personally.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> For me...whenever I read quesitons or here conversation about 箸 (Hashi) or there related kin in Korea, and China I think the first practical place to look and ask questions is of the cultures that created and used them (and still do.)
> 
> Well...Duh Jay...but not everyone thinks like a geek weirdo like you...Is usually the response I get in person...haha...
> 
> ...


 Ah yeah geeky weirdo's! I get that all the time mate. As much as I enjoy learning about and practicing most traditional methods, fish skin glue is something I probably won't try any time soon although it would be kind of cool. Inlays/overlays are something of a weak spot for me. I need to get better at it anyway so trying techniques out on chopsticks might be the perfect intro. And your best is certainly appreciated.


----------



## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Good Luck and keep us "geeky weirdos" up to speed on your progress. Love to help where possible...!

Cheers Mate!


----------



## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

How about turning a tenon on one piece and gluing it in to the next before turning to final shape.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Quickstep said:


> How about turning a tenon on one piece and gluing it in to the next before turning to final shape.


I actually just made the jig I need to do this! Except mines also at a 45 degree angle.


----------



## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I'd love to see pictures of your jig and the finished product.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Quickstep said:


> I'd love to see pictures of your jig and the finished product.


I haven't perfected it yet but here's the test piece.


----------



## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

I can't say this is true for all higher end chopsticks but the ones I've examined closely appear to consist of a single shaft that is trimmed or shaped to accept laminations and inlays. Tedious work for sure but certainly would provide the strength and solid feel you would expect.


----------



## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

regesullivan said:


> I can't say this is true for all higher end chopsticks but the ones I've examined closely appear to consist of a single shaft that is trimmed or shaped to accept laminations and inlays. Tedious work for sure but certainly would provide the strength and solid feel you would expect.



Yeah, I've never seen wooden chopsticks made out of multiple pieces before either. That's why I wanted to make them!


----------



## regesullivan (Jan 26, 2007)

Sorry, not knocking what you are doing but I don't see the challenge. Many common types of wood joints could be miniaturized successfully for this project. Maybe explain how your joints are failing or specifically what you want them to look like.

If you are looking for a challenge try duplicating some of Warther's miniture wood carvings and creations. "www.thewarthermuseum.com"




Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------

