# Table Saw on a ~$400 budget



## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Hello,

I am currently in the market for a table saw for ~$400. Space is sort of an issue, something fold-able or something that can be stored on a shelf when not in use is preferable. 

I primarily want to use it for:

- creating simple shelves (built-in bookshelves)
- coffee table/end tables (just basic ones)
- maybe crown molding (i understand a miter saw is probably better suited for this)

The most important things i guess are:

- accuracy/clean rips

- 24" rip capacity (it would be nice to cut 4'x8's) (Or perhaps a pair of good quality clamp guides is a more economical alternative)
- safety

The table saws that i see coming close are:

Bosch 4100 ($579): http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-15...y-Rise-Stand-4100-09/202242734#specifications

Rigid R4510 ($499): http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...e-Saw-with-Stand-R4510/100090444?N=5yc1vZc29i

Both are a bit more than I would ideally like to spend but I am after something that is excellent quality and that will last. Between these two I do favor the life-time warranty of the rigid saw. 

Is there anything else around this price range that people would recommend?

Thanks


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Vexorg said:


> ...I am after something that is excellent quality and that will last....


A portable jobsite saw isn't the first saw that comes to mind when I read your statement. The two saws you picked are among the best of the portables, but are not ideal to meet the above criteria IMHO.

They're much harder to store on a shelf, but a full size contractor saw with a belt drive induction motor has considerably more robust bones from the start, better accuracy, more operating room, better stability, better long term reliability, are easier to upgrade, easier and more feasible to repair, and are much quieter. They simply have the lion's share of advantages over any portable. The only downside is portability, but they can be easily rolled out of the way on a mobile base. Something like the new Delta 36-725 runs close in price to the plastic portables you mentioned. A good used full size saw should run much less, and will also have many advantages over a portable....check Craigslist. If portable has be the way to go, they are capable of doing what you need to do, but are a distinct step down in user friendliness, as well as several other descriptors. 

*Some reading about table saws * that may help your decision.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks, yup I read through that guide and have been looking through craigslist too. 

Some of my concern is being a novice to table saws, it makes it a bit harder to pick our a "good" used one.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

We love shopping for saws. Share your location, and we'd be happy to check craigslist for what look like good deals.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

RobinDobbie said:


> We love shopping for saws. Share your location, and we'd be happy to check craigslist for what look like good deals.


Haha okay...

I live in Orange County, CA

I searched 'table saw' and these are the results that came up:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/search/tla?zoomToPosting=&catAbb=tla&query=table+saw&minAsk=&maxAsk=&excats=

Here was one I saw, but there seems to be a mixed bag on rockwells. I assume this would need a few things replaced:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4422755702.html


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

There's a ridgid ts3650 listed for 350.....that's a keeper.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

ryan50hrl said:


> There's a ridgid ts3650 listed for 350.....that's a keeper.



Definitely! http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4421484509.html It'll go fast.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Hmm, i emailed them about it we will see.

Im going to have to take some measurements to see if something like this would fit reasonably in my garage.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

If it won't....find a way to make it fit. You'll thank us later after using it for the first time.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

ryan50hrl said:


> If it won't....find a way to make it fit. You'll thank us later after using it for the first time.


:smile:


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

If need be, the motor pulls off pretty quickly, and you can even remove a wing extension or both if you have too. It's a lot more saw than a portable, and is worth the effort IMO.


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

There is a pretty clever guy on youtube who added hinges to the wings of a Craftsman table saw, and made a small cut on the fence, so that both wings could fold down.

It's a little *******, but it's also fairly smart. It was titled something like 'upgrades to a contractor's saw'.

I've also seen people do this with shop-built wings that they made out of wood - it would be a little lighter.

I think you'll find a lot of people end up using the table saw as a secondary workbench, or storage area. So, you might also consider that secondary use. You could even make a simple plywood top for the saw that would make it a better work area when you're not cutting something.

There are a number of different solutions out there.

Here's that video:


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks for the replys. The guy hasnt responded yet. 

It seems like the consensus though is that a contractors saw would be best for the accuracy/ripping size.

So I guess the consensus is that compact saws are more for doing framing cuts/rough work at job sites? Not to mince anyone's words but it seems like it is impossible/tough to get the same level of accuracy achieved with a contractors saw?

I assume this is due to contractor saws having much more accurate fences/guides (and belt motors)?


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## rechilcot (Nov 29, 2012)

In that price range, you will find numerous contractor/hybrid saws. A few weeks ago, I landed a Craftsman 22114 for $175. Patience is definitely a plus. While jobsite saws have a purpose, the home hobbyist is much better suited with a larger saw even if space is tight.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

In defense of the foldup contractor saws, the two you mentioned are also capable of accurate, repeatable cuts with a good tuneup. I went with the 4510 because of my basement shop. I couldn't figure a way to get a contractor saw down there without a major dismantling. Even if I would have, a mobile base wouldn't have helped much what with furnace, water heater, router table, drill press, OSS, workbench, bandsaw and a plethora of lolly posts typically found in the basements of 80 year old homes. 
The 4510 is extremely easy to set up, primarily because the trunion bolts are accessible from the top of the table. The fence is also decent and the stand is very stable. I'm not saying it is better than a floor standing contractor saw but with a little TLC is a very good saw. It does have a 25" rip capacity but I don't believe it advisable to try breaking down sheet goods on a table saw without copious amounts of infeed and outfeed support. Keep looking at circular saw guides. :smile:


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

Vexorg said:


> Hmm, i emailed them about it we will see.
> 
> Im going to have to take some measurements to see if something like this would fit reasonably in my garage.


Keep trying to contact him/her. Looks like it's at $325 now.

New options, non-jobsite:
- Rigid 4512 - $499 or more depending on location; less if you can get an HF coupon match at your HD
- Craftsman 28333 - $449 - same saw as the 4512
- Masterforce (Menards) 2400037 - $599 - same saw as the 4512
- Delta 36-725 - $569

Personally I'd continue to have the CL pros here help you with used deals. They are the kings at that.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

As the owner of a TS 3650, I would honestly look at a different saw. The base is a wobbly mess. I've had other issues with it, but those may be QC issues with my particular unit. From what I understand, the base issues are universal.

I found a couple more options in the area. Both are listed as being more expensive than the 3650, but they've been up for around a month. If the saws haven't actually sold, negotiation is more likely, now.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4384772474.html Ridgid TS 2424. The model just before the TS 3650. Solid base, cast iron wings, still has the guard, and a featherboard!

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4381431814.html Craftsman, similar to the TS 2424. No guard, and stamped steel wings. Listed at $450, but includes radial arm saw (mounted in workbench), Delta Chop saw, Delta Band saw, Delta scroll saw, and a router table. Holy Crap! I know space is an issue, maybe you can work something out for just the table saw.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Vexorg said:


> ...So I guess the consensus is that compact saws are more for doing framing cuts/rough work at job sites? Not to mince anyone's words but it seems like it is impossible/tough to get the same level of accuracy achieved with a contractors saw?
> 
> I assume this is due to contractor saws having much more accurate fences/guides (and belt motors)?


While a heavier belt drive saw tends to have less vibration than a lightweight direct drive saw, which should theoretically correlate to better accuracy, I don't believe accuracy is really the weak point of portables....they're capable of providing a rip cut within a gnat's eyelash of what you need. It's the function from a user standpoint where a contractor saw becomes obviously nicer to use than a jobsite saw. With a full size contractor saw, there's considerably more distance and table space before the blade, so it provides a larger landing zone to set your board in place and keeps your hands farther away from the blade. The contractor saw is considerably heavier too....when you place that board down and begin your cut, it's much less likely that the saw will move on you....it's very unnerving to have a saw tipping or sliding while you're cutting with it. The induction motors are considerably quieter too....99.5% of what you'll hear is the blade chopping in the wind...without the blade, the motor makes a very faint humming sound. Induction motors also have more torque and rely less on high RPM to do the cutting, which means they tend to bog down less. Most contractor saws use an off the shelf motor with a NEMA 56 frame, which are readily interchangeable, easy to replace, and affordable in the event you should ever blow a motor (not very common)...you're more likely to have a bad capacitor that can easily be replaced for < $10. Most induction motors can also run on either 120v or 240v. A universal motor is considerably louder, usually proprietary to the saw, are more likely to lose their magic smoke, and are way more expensive to fix...it's usually terminal for the saw, as they're not generally cost effective to replace.

Numerous accessories like fence and wing upgrades are readily avialable for standard full size saws, so a basic contractor saw can be upgraded and grow with you as your budget allows....much less so for portables. Many components from full size saws are interchangeable too. Add to the equation the difference in materials of construction, the full size contractor saws are simply more reliable long term investment that outperforms the portables in nearly every category you can mention. That doesn't mean you can't get good results from a portable, but it's more difficult...portability and size are really their only advantages, and sometimes that advantage warrants purchasing them over a bigger saw.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks for the information guys! Still haven't heard anything it must be gone, the search continues.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Hey,

The guy finally responded im thinking im going to take a look at it today. What should I check for?

im thinking
- make sure fence slides smoothly
- blade moves up/down properly
- blade tilt works property
- it turns on 

Also could this be dismantled enough to fit into a compact car (rear seats fold down to make room from trunk). Im thinking, remove fence/base. Nvm looks like it can be dismantled pretty extensively found a reference here: https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/power-tools/woodworking-discussion-forum/29925-ts3650-disassembly?t=29160


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Vexorg said:


> Hey,
> 
> The guy finally responded im thinking im going to take a look at it today. What should I check for?
> 
> ...


The overall condition will give you some indicators how it was cared for. Check for signs of damage. These saws have an excellent track record, but they're not bullet proof. Rust is easily removable, but it's much better if its not badly pitted. Don't worry much if the fence doesn't slide smoothly....adjustment and lubrication will take care of that unless something is broken. Cleaning and lubrication should make the blade move up and down smoothly too....it's nice if it already does, but if not, it's generally easy to remedy. It should run smoothly and quietly...if it vibrates a bit, it could be blade, belt or pulley issues, bearings (all easy fixes) or something more severe like a bent shaft. With the saw unplugged, standing at the back of the saw, rotate the belt by hand and watch the blade rotation for runout....there should be nearly none that you can notice. If the saw vibrates noticeably and there's easily notable blade runout, it could indicate an unlikely problem. Bring a flashlight and check underneath for any obvious cracks or breaks (that'd be deal breaker at that price). While there, you can also check the gears to see if they're caked up or clean....clean is better, but if dirty it's no big deal to clean them up. Table flatness is good, but it'd take a big deviation in an unfortunate location to show up in your results. It can't hurt to make sure the miter slots are straight and parallel with each other. 

Transport isn't too bad. Obviously remove the fence, miter gauge, and blade guard. Unplug the motor from the switch....the motor and mounting plate slide easily out of the undercarriage by loosening two bolts. Take the leg stand off, put a blanket down and flip it upside down. You could also remove the fence rails and wings, but you may not have to depending on how deep your car is. Bring some sockets/wrenches. Take gobs of pics and report back here! :thumbsup:


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## rbk123 (Jan 10, 2013)

You may get away with leaving the wings on, but if so you need to be *careful *you don't accidentally lift it (after detaching the base) by the wings. You could potentially crack the wings, the table, or the attachment bolts.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

I brought mine home in a Nissan Maxima.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

The guy is super unresponsive but ill keep you guys posted. 

I may also be able to get help from a friend who has a truck. We will see.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Did you see the other two saws I posted on the previous page? One of them was a Ridgid TS 2424, which I believe is superior to the TS 3650.


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

I've found the best trick is to remove your passenger seat and leave it at home. This frees up a lot of space, and you can probably put the main box of the saw on the floor where the passenger seat was.

Also, these saws are heavy, so dismantling them is also beneficial just in reducing the weight per piece.

A lot of sellers on CL are flaky, some are OK, it's just the luck of the draw.

My experience, thus far, buying power tools is that they will all need some work/set up to run right. I wouldn't expect to get something that runs perfectly right off the bat. But, if the price is right, the fix-up effort is justified.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

RobinDobbie said:


> Did you see the other two saws I posted on the previous page? One of them was a Ridgid TS 2424, which I believe is superior to the TS 3650.


The 2424 was a notch below the former 3612, which had a superior fence to the 2424, as well as the eccentric lever that was used to assist in aligning the blade to the miter slot which is also found on the 3650. So the 2424 is actually a (small) step below the 3650.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

> the former 3612, which had a superior fence to the 2424


From what I can tell, the differences in the fence are minimal. Different lock-down, 2424 lacked micro-adjustment(which I've never used on my 3650).



> as well as the eccentric lever that was used to assist in aligning the blade to the miter slot


I didn't find that very useful. I just did the ol' love tap with a rubber mallet. Checked with a caliper, then, tapped again. Didn't take too long.

The two major things that are better about the 2424 far outweigh the small things that may be better about the 3650. 1, the 2424 was made in the USA. 2, The 2424 base is SOLID. Most 3650 owners would agree that the base is a poor, wobbly design, regardless of how tight things are fastened.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

RobinDobbie said:


> From what I can tell, the differences in the fence are minimal. Different lock-down, 2424 lacked micro-adjustment(which I've never used on my 3650).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey,

Yeah I took a look at those ones as well. The first one looks like it might okay but its sees like $400 is a little much for one that is used. The second one is a little far away.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Well it's been up for 28 days. I'll bet he'd come down on the price.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

RobinDobbie said:


> Well it's been up for 28 days. I'll bet he'd come down on the price.


Are you able to attach a riving knife/splitter to this model?

In addition i asked the person about the model on this one: http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4422755702.html 

They said its a Rockwell 34-410


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Other than the included splitter built into the guard? You can install a microjig in a zero-clearance insert.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Hmm interesting, I am very interested in making sure it is as safe as possible


Is something like this not even comparable to the aforementioned sawshttp://m.sears.com/index-g.html#/details/guest/00921833000P?source=online


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Vexorg said:


> ...In addition i asked the person about the model on this one: http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4422755702.html
> 
> They said its a Rockwell 34-410


That's a rugged old saw that looks to be in nice shape. The fence isn't great, but it may suffice for you.

This one has probably been discussed already, but if not, here's a Ridgid 3612 for $350 that looks to be nearly complete and in decent shape. $275-$300 would be a nice deal.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

I emailed about the Rigid 3612, we will see.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

Hey guys,

The guy with the TS3650 finally responded and I went over and looked at the saw today. It was in excellent condition so I purchased it right on the spot.

These are the pictures I took.  I'm probably going to finish putting it together tomorrow. A lot of the pictures I took were so I could make sure I knew where to put the correct things back together. He had the repair manual and everything. More pictures to come...

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/uxkovpygdxpmdkh/V00Vxp_dDG


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Looks good. Once it's set up, if you decide to keep it, this is what some users have done as a replacement for the base.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

That's fantastic! What a great upgrade for less than a new portable. :thumbsup: Get a decent blade, and get it aligned.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

RobinDobbie said:


> Looks good. Once it's set up, if you decide to keep it, this is what some users have done as a replacement for the base.


Cool thanks I'll definitely keep that in mind.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

knotscott said:


> That's fantastic! What a great upgrade for less than a new portable. :thumbsup: Get a decent blade, and get it aligned.


Will do, I took a look at the guide in your sig earlier.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

knotscott said:


> That's fantastic! What a great upgrade for less than a new portable. :thumbsup: Get a decent blade, and get it aligned.


Hey Knottscott,

I finished reviewing your guide and I cant decide between:

Irwin Marples
Freud Diablo D1050X

Or I can even opt for something like a Freud LU83R010 10-Inch 50 Tooth ATB Thin Kerf Combination Saw Blade, 




Any recommendations? It doesn't really have to be a budget blade, I just thought these would be the best combination blades.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Vexorg said:


> Hey Knottscott,
> 
> I finished reviewing your guide and I cant decide between:
> 
> ...


You can basically pick a color. The LU83 and D1050x are essentially the same blade, but the LU83 has a bit more carbide. The Marples is similar, and has more carbide than the D1050. The Marples has been getting a lot of positive comments, but all should be good solid choices and good values. All are made in Italy.


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## Vexorg (Apr 16, 2014)

knotscott said:


> You can basically pick a color. The LU83 and D1050x are essentially the same blade, but the LU83 has a bit more carbide. The Marples is similar, and has more carbide than the D1050. The Marples has been getting a lot of positive comments, but all she be good solid choices and good values. All are made in Italy.


Thanks I was originally planning on the marples but I am sort of compelled with the "PermaSheid" coating. But not sure if it is a gimmick (even if it is both blades seem to be receiving excellent reviews).


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

RobinDobbie said:


> http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4384772474.html Ridgid TS 2424. The model just before the TS 3650. Solid base, cast iron wings, still has the guard, and a featherboard!
> .


I have a 2424 and it is a great saw! The only change would be to upgrade the standard miter gauge.

That price is a little crazy for a 12+ year old saw. I think it was probably $400ish brand new. I paid $100 for mine.


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## lrryfrrw (Sep 28, 2013)

*$400.00 Table Saw or less*

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...7983&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051


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