# help with basic dust collection



## dustsnifer (Aug 14, 2013)

I have done some reading both threads on this forum and separate websites about dust collecting but that is truly a topic unto itself(duh!!).

I have a table saw with a rear port and I am looking for something "basic" in that my garage is small( and many people in my home use it for storage also) but I do have most things on rollers to be able to move them around. 

I am looking for a shop vac or am I, (my old one died an honorable death), plus something else that I can attach to it to collect the chip size particles and medium size dust. I would also like to use this basic setup to be able to move my jointer and planner to collect sawdust chips and medium size particles. 

One thing I came across was this dust deputy on amazon which looks "interesting" and appears to be able to connect to a shop vac but I am truly a novice when it comes to dust collection.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GZLCHM/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A19VW1BL9ZXZVA

My old shop vac was connected to my tablesaw which worked Ok since the garage door was always open as was the side door which lead also lead outside. 

Hung from the ceiling, I built some years ago a filter that would collect small dust particles with a port that extends outside of the garage.

since I do not do as much woodworking as I did years ago, price is always a concern. So, I need some guidance here as a few places that sell dust collection systems steer me to some very nice looking systems which cost some very nice money with sales people who can be very convincing when it comes to the higher priced items and respond often times to my questions in "Aramaic" which leads me to be more confused.

I need you folks to guide me in a direction so I can come up with some options and directions I can investigate.

Thank you,
sawdust sniffer


----------



## Allman27 (Feb 10, 2013)

If I were you and wanted a cheap option that collects the shavings of your planer as well as all your dust, I would buy the harbor freight dust collector. With the wood magazine coupon it goes for $160. Much better than a shop vac, and will handle all your dust collecting needs.


----------



## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

For your bigger tools, a shop vac, with or without a separator like the DD, won't work very well. This is especially true of the planer. The bigger tools need a fair amount of airflow which a true DC is designed for. A shop vac doesn't move that much air, focusing more on static pressure (aka suction).

I second the HF DC approach as it is a low cost way to get into it. Though, expect a fair amount of tinkering as is typical with stuff from HF. Lots of info out there on HF DC mods and improvements.

A separator like the dust deputy is a good idea no matter what you do. It prolongs filter life and, with a true DC, it prevents damage by collecting big stuff before it hits your impeller blades. You should match your hose size. The DD is 2.5" and I would not hook it up to a 4" DC. You can build your own separator for well less than $100.


----------



## Paul_R (Nov 26, 2014)

I use a shop vac with a Dust Deputy and it works great, almost nothing ever makes it to the vacuum and it moves plenty of air for all my tools just not all at once. I have a small shop in my garage and noise is a huge issue so I bit the bullet and bought a Fein vacuum and I'm glad I did, woodworking machinery makes more than enough noise without a cheap shop vac screaming at 90+ db! I also have shelix cutterheads on my planer and jointer which brings the noise down and makes smaller chips that flow thru the hoses perfectly. I use 2 1/4" hose from the planer and jointer to the DD cuz of the volume and size of chips and 1 3/4" hose for everything else.

IMHO this is the ultimate shop vac set up. The top of the vacuum is flat and a bucket fits but is still a little tippy so I bolted a piece of 3/4" MDF to the bottom of the bucket and cut it to fit in the recess on the vac and problem solved. I can grab it anywhere and pull it around.


----------



## dustsnifer (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank you for the feedback. Some of what you folks have said I understand because of reading the multiple threads on this forum and some of it I need to read more , get a better understanding so I can ask the right questions. 

I just need to be patient, take my time so that my ideas start to fit and you folks out there can help me fill in the gaps .

Anyone else who wants to jump in is more than welcome. I would rather have tooooo much info than too little.

I will start with some follow up questions as soon as I take some notes.

thanks!:thumbsup:
"I'll be back!"
sawdustsnifer


----------



## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

check this out:

http://www.jpthien.com/


----------



## dustsnifer (Aug 14, 2013)

Hi all, been doing some more reading. I must admit, I do like "Paul r" setup( I recognize the brewing bucket)and all the great pictures:thumbsup:I did notice that you did bite the bullet to get the fein "dust extractor" that does a better job than a regular shop vac but does a definitely good job. The dust deputy seem to be made to fit a shop vac /and or a dust extractor.

I am still a bit vague on the high velocity and low volume versus the low velocity and high volume?

I have been looking on websites only at the harbor freight $206.00 dust collector. This is not a canister type(right) so I think I read that the material can get clogged in a canaster type?? I also came across a few threads where there were some technical tinkering but most things we have to tinker with.But I have read a lot of good things considering HF has a history of questionable tools but this one seems to be more positive.
It appears that one does not need to hook it up to a shop vac or dust extractor so I might save some money there. Some complaints about the micron size(5) but i suppose you could get a one to collect smaller dust particles.

so help me understand this: This economy model HF DC ($206)would collect chips from my planner, tablesaw as well as smaller particles from my jointer and as for dust collection from my drum sander, this would be a matter of tinkering and adapting to it:huh:?

So what am I missing here( a lot) that I can continue to check out the pros and cons of each?

Thanks,
sawdustsnifer


----------



## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Sawdust,not a direct answer but it won't cost anything other than a little time...........get on fleabay and just start looking at used dustcollectors.You'll get a good cross section of what's,"been done".Try to get an idea of how the different "styles" accomplish their mission.

Further,there is a notion that a shop can be better off with multiple collectors vs one big one.So,if you were to get a HF 2HP.....don't think automatically that it will,"have to go" should you get a bigger one later.This is how our shop is for the simple reason,if one breaks down....all work dosen't have to stop.

Just be patient,there's tons of options,best of luck,BW


----------



## Paul_R (Nov 26, 2014)

One other thing to note about the $200 HF and similar bag type collectors is that yes, they do a great job of collecting dust. The problem is that a 5 micron bag allows all the really fine powder to blow right thru and will be all over your shop in (and in your lungs) in no time. Personally I wouldn't have anything greater than 1 micron inside the shop. And in my experience, the cheaper the filter the less reliable the rating. The Fein comes standard with a 1 micron filter and a HEPA (0.5 micron) is available. If it sounds I'm gloating, well, it's because I am. I like my setup. :icon_smile:


----------



## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

> I am still a bit vague on the high velocity and low volume versus the low velocity and high volume?


Actually, the distinction is between air flow and vacuum (static pressure). Shop vacs have high vacuum, but relatively low air flow, while dust collectors have a lower vacuum, but much greater air flow. You can get a decent vacuum with a small motor, but greater air flow always requires a more powerful motor.

You need a minimum air _speed_ to get good dust pick up. For a given air flow, air speed drops with increasing diameter of your pipe. With more air flow, DC's can use larger pipes and hoses, and are best for tools which need a lot of air flow- stationary tools, esp. jointers and planers. Shop vacs can't provide enough air flow to get enough air speed for most stationary tools, but their high vacuum helps with better flow in narrow hoses- so they're best for handheld tools- routers, jig saws, ROS, etc.


----------



## dustsnifer (Aug 14, 2013)

great suggestiuons from all of you!

It is obvious that I need to read more, do more research and if poisslble, get my hands on some models and ask the right..,.or close to the right questions.

The suggestion that I look at "fleabay" is an excellant idea :thumbsup:even though, I have not had the greatest experiences with them but I can still look.

Never really thought about a shop vac for smaller dust makers and a HF DC for bigger particles....seems so obvious:thumbsup:!

There have been several threads on this forum that I have studied because of all the precise detail and specific language that I am not familiar with but I take notes well!

wood-n-things spent a lot of time on one thread as he always does with excellent detail. This does not take away from anyone else so please do not take this as a lack of sensitivity toward the rest of you all.

One other thing: is there a book (there always seems to be several) that I could immerse myself in and have the "aha" moments I need!

thank you!
Sawdust sniffer


----------



## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

> is there a book (there always seems to be several) that I could immerse myself in and have the "aha" moments I need!


The books I've seen on woodworking dust collection are a bit dated, but there's some good info on the internet. If you haven't checked it out, billpentz.com is almost like a book- an exhaustive (and rather exhausting) write up of dust collection. Mr. Pentz certainly has a mission, and makes strong arguments, but I think some of his conclusions are not really practical for the average woodworker.

Also, check out jpthien.com, which I think has a lot more pragmatic, though less concise info in the threads, even if you're not interested in building a Thien-type dust separator.


----------



## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

When I first started down the "build the best possible DC" road about 9 months ago, I read lots of sources. Bill Pentz's site was like falling into a black hole. So much information and so many variables. I mean, it's great but just way too much. Other sites and threads give a lot of somewhat contradictory information. I think this area is fertile enough for lots of PhD thesis's - it's that science heavy and somewhat uncharted. It was information-overload-a-rama - too many variables. 

I did learn a couple of important points. Flow is more important than suction and a separator protects your impeller.

So, I just decided to take a stab at it. Built a Thein separator and hooked it up to an older Grizzly DC (think some what better HF DC). Was worried that it would kill my air flow. Surprisingly, it works fine. Even for my planers. For my sanders and smaller tools (with tiny little dust ports), I built a cart with a small shop vac + hepa filter and another thein style separator. Works great for sanding. Since sanding is the biggest source of the tiny particles, I feel like I'm getting close to "good enough". 

Anyway, good luck. I'm sure you are on a path to a good (enough) solution.


----------



## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

When you have more time than money.....

And excuse the slightly esoteric response,but it won't cost any $$,just time.Dig around really old wood machinery photos and journals(some real good reading material form early 20th century woodshop news,trade journals are available now in PDF).......look at their dust collection.

I study sheet metal(more time than $$),most often about it's history within the architectural realms......early HVAC systems,roofing,etc.It was through this that I frequently stumble onto early applications in the woodshop.It's from a time when it was "roll your own" or do without.They(plant/shop designers and foremans)were largely,experiment based vs anything remotely scientific.BUT,that only lasted so long before some "rules" or science began to appear on the subject.

Today we have resources out the wazoo.......but,that dosen't mean trying something,testing if you will,isn't a logical approach to an issue.By studying the past,it's a window that isn't marred by someone or some co. with an agenda.Its my opinion that cyclones have been "pushed" on the public because of several factors,don't read that to say they're bad......quite the opposite.But there are factors that put them into the limelight that dosn't have anything to do with dust management.It's a manufacturing agenda.The same with cartridge filters.They really aren't used that much on large industrial DC's.....wonder why that is?

Oh well,gotta go to the shop.


----------



## dustsnifer (Aug 14, 2013)

I am very appreciative of all the detail that you have given me to work with. I also noticed two other threads that in some ways, have some definite overlap so I will be taking notes and doing a lot of cut and paste and looking up the informative webs sites.

I do have a few more things to say in appreciation but I wanted to get this reply out as soon as I could.

Thank you
I'll be be back!
Sawdust sniffer
PPS: some one in another post used the word,"churlish!" Now that is a great word!


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

sawdustsnifer said:


> PPS: some one in another post used the word,"churlish!" Now that is a great word!


Woo, I did something useful!


----------



## dustsnifer (Aug 14, 2013)

I have a lot of people to thank for all the information that i am in the process of reading. Too many to thank who have tons of info more than I do but as soon as I get it "basically" together, I will know or have a direction but only after I have read a bunch of those web sites and names that have been mentioned from "thein:blink:?", to scones(wait--that a pastry), penzy's-wait that is a spice website, dust collection to particle accelerators and the "event horizon" of black holes and vortex and dark matter:1eye:, the dandy duster to and the ethereal realm of a Ph.D dissertation. 

All kidding aside, I have copied down every name correctly and now am doing my homework. I hope I did not offend anyone as I truly appreciate your feedback :thumbsup::thumbsup:which will be utilized within the next month.

Sincerely,
sawdust sniffer


----------



## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Sawdust,google "images" for a multi clone dust collector.

Instead of a bigish cyclone body,they utilize a "ganged" approach with small diameter tubes.Think a bunch of 4 and 6 inch tubes.One of these days I have GOT to make one of them.......it's an "itch" thing,haha.

Start with a junkyard,gutted refrigerator....the kind where the freezer door is on the bttm.Multi clone up top....open bttm door for the fines removal.Shoot the whole thing some industrial 1970's green?


----------



## ocelotprod (Feb 22, 2015)

*Centralized Dust Collection with Dust Deputy*

After setting up a small shop, I located my dust collection system in a spot central to all needs. I searched high and low for a wall mounted Dust Deputy® platform with a 5 gallon bucket, and finding none, I crafted one. It's now called the DBL-5, an engineered device that mounts a Dust Deputy® and integrates a quick release bucket system for rapid removal and installation. 

The DBL-5 is very smooth in operation and the wall mount capability allows the vacuum source to be placed underneath, minimizing footprint in space-constrained workshops. It's rugged and eliminates disconnecting hoses, clamps, lids, etc. 

http://www.ocelot-products.com


Contact: [email protected]


----------



## ORBlackFZ1 (Dec 25, 2013)

*References*



sawdustsnifer said:


> One other thing: is there a book (there always seems to be several) that I could immerse myself in and have the "aha" moments I need!


Have you found this thread yet?

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/dust-collection-references-65642/

Eric


----------



## jousley (Nov 10, 2013)

I like the HF 2 HP DC - but a previous poster is exactly right about the 5 micron bag - you def can go with a 1 micron - however I have seen another really good idea. Just port the excess out of your garage if you can. So the port that would normally go to your bag - Just create a frame between two studs - pop a hole in your wall (that leads outside) - and all the very fine dust will be ported out there - and not in your garage and into your lungs. Of course this depends on your garage set-up. Mine is detached and in the back. All super fine dust will go out the back facing the alley. I will have a blast gate so that I can close it when I'm not in the garage with a lock - so no bees or anything get in there. 
I am in the process of purchasing my DC & super dust deputy now - and this is my plan. I live in SoCal, so no worries about it pumping my warm air out and I freeze to death. 

Just another idea to throw around.
J


----------



## gmcooter (Jan 22, 2015)

*dust collector*

I made my own. I posted pictures or it.


----------

