# Critter Killin'



## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Suppose I buy slabs from a mill and they are supposedly kiln dried and supposedly critter free, but I want to make sure. What can I do to make sure there is no hidden ecosystem living in my slab?

Would I have to make my own kiln?
If I did, what temp should be maintained and for how long to kill?

What hazards would I have to avoid to not 'over dry' and ensure that I dont damage the internal structure other than the visable smoke?


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Standard timber fumigant used on ship loads of imported timber was methyl bromide. Not available to the ordinary person. 
johnep


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Like 3 posts down on this board is your VERY in depth answer by Tennessee tim. 130° internal temp for at least a day is his suggestion. You could do what Aard suggested in that same post and throw a tarp over your lumber with a space heater and a fan.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Yup, 130 degrees for 24 hrs.
That means the internal temp of the wood must be there.
If not sure, go twice that long.

Others use various insecticides. Problem is, then it's in the wood you are working with.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Yeeep what they said.....with that said, the best is to buy from a reputable ????(however that's spelled) seller. 

There are very few mills that sell direct with KD'd lumber. The cost to have extra controlled storage and a "store front" to sell is expensive. BUT there are a few........Things to observe if they mill the lumber 1) KD lumber should NEVER be stored near the sawmill nor the ADing areas, EXTREME high risk of cross contamination. 2) watch for little piles of fras where they store lumber...if you see fras lumber contaminated with bugs.

My mill and my ADing are at one place, the lumber enters kiln there also, but after KDing is done it's moved to a off site storage which is DH controlled 24/7/365. I don't bring other non sterilized lumber to my storage either.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Seems like it would take a while to heat the inside to 130*. How would I do that?

How do I know the internal temp? Drill a hole and insert a meat thermometer?
Can this be over done to ruin the internal structure of the slabs?


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Tony B said:


> Seems like it would take a while to heat the inside to 130*. How would I do that?
> 
> How do I know the internal temp? Drill a hole and insert a meat thermometer?
> Can this be over done to ruin the internal structure of the slabs?


A) depends on the size of kiln and the wood thickness. 
B)I monitor mine, then once the whole kiln is up to that temp I usually keep it for 48hrs to insure the temp gets to the interior of the wood.
C) I'd guess ANYTHING can be overdone somehow. What ruins most KD lumber is dropping the MC too quickly and stressing/casehardening the lumber....from my readings this is when lumber is above 25% MC, anything below is hard to damage.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Do you guys air dry before you put the lumber into the kiln?


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

Here is a direct quote from a guy who does this for a living. This is the owner of zena forest products in western Oregon. You can see a few videos of his on youtube also. This is his method, dealing with oregon white oak.

"Hi Jesse,

I will give you a quick run down on how we dry our Oak. 1st of all, I don't dry anything over 8/4 thick in Oregon White Oak, because it just plain takes too long to dry. For our 8/4 oak, I air dry it for 18 months or two full summers worth of drying. This should get the center down to below 20% MC. Then I put it in the kiln and dry it down the rest of the way to 8%. When it is in the kiln, I shoot for about 0.5%MC per day of drying. Any faster and you start having problems. I start the kiln at around 90 degrees, and finish the kiln at about 155 degrees. I ramp the temperature up slowly as needed. Kiln time usually takes 2 months. I don't have a solar kiln, so I can't speak to how that would perform. Since you have 3" slabs, I would scale you time up accordingly. Bottom line, I don't think it is worth putting wood into a kiln until it is under 20% MC.

best

-Ben


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm basically doing exactly what he said not to with my solar kiln, and hoping for the best. Haha


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Tony B
Look up my thread on a "Cheap Kiln".
It tells how a homeowner sized cheap setup can get the wood temp up to (in my case I get to...) 145-150 degrees.
My setup is not as near specialized as the pro's, but it works.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Ok, thought I'd show this to ya Tony B...

Cheap drying method in process.

Yesterday I put these slices in the kiln (pix #1)
I plastic tapped them over and set a cheap space heater on one end so it's running 800watts (pix #2 +3)
A slit in the plastic allows the heat and moisture to vent off.

Come bug kill time I'll run 2 space heaters. One on each end and bring the temp way up.
Right now with the one, I'm sitting at 85-90 degrees.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks AArd

Thats what I call scalin' way down.

Not afraid of fire with heater in bag?


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

No, the heater is technically outside of the tarp except the fan.
You don't bury the heater.


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## jessesnowden (Mar 15, 2015)

You can buy flame retardant 6 mil plastic if you're worried about it. Same price as regular 6 mil. Might have to order it though and have it shipped to your local store.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

If there were glowing heating elements visible I'd consider it and likely not use the heater at all.
Been using this setup for 6 years without any issues.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Tony B said:


> Do you guys air dry before you put the lumber into the kiln?


 Yes , I air dry for 2 yrs with my 8/4 (basically the old rule of thumb 1 yr per inch thick....region effected).

To slow dry as I do along with the log laying around 1-3 yrs , the lumber may be up to 5 yrs from the time I get the log until finish KDing....BUT I feel that's not rushing anything and BEAUTIFUL wood!!!


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Tim, I appreciate the info. I had no idea that sawmills were under such a long term investment. 
Thanks again


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Tony the long term is on my specialty lumber/slabs. MOST sawmills saw as soon as they receive the log for best freshness and desired color.....I take it to the other extreme and saw for the UGLY as some say. I'm not a production type of mill...my turn-over is LONG term BUT I'm also in a different price range....specialty wood.....anyone can saw basic production....not everyone can read the wood....they say.:wink2::wink2:


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## Woodychips (Oct 3, 2015)

As a woodturner I mess around with Ambrosia Maple but have no kiln and air dry. Can the ambrosia beetle jump to other varieties of wood in my shop if it survives?


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Woodychips said:


> As a woodturner I mess around with Ambrosia Maple but have no kiln and air dry. Can the ambrosia beetle jump to other varieties of wood in my shop if it survives?


I'm not sure the beetle is a bug BUT I'll look that up.....I thought it was a fungus, BUT that might be only the spalting .


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

WEEEEEELLLLL....NEVER too old to learn!!!! They are a beetle that bores into the wood up to 3000 beetle species that have the ambrosia trait. The bug bores and then leaves a fungi trail along, I believe it said as the fungi grows the larva of the beetles feed on it. It attacks live, dead and sick trees. 

Most types of bugs leave as the MC drops low, BUT not all as in powder post beetle.


A LOT to read on them.... I can't answer your question IF you should be concerned....yet.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Here's a link http://www.spaltedmaplelumber.com/spaltedwood.html this should answer most of the questions concerning the beetle.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Been told by one local sawmill owner the ambrosia patterning is as Tim says, but starts by birds pecking at the tree and then the beetles can enter. I don't know that as being fact. Just what I was told.


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## Woodychips (Oct 3, 2015)

The ambrosia beetle is a really neat critter. It carries fungi on its feet and wherever it burrows it leaves that fungi trail. Later on when the fungi takes a good hold on the tree the beetle comes back to eat. Cool fact.


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## Woodychips (Oct 3, 2015)

Oh, and thanks for the link Tim. I actually got a sugar maple with ambrosia markings in it this fall. Weird to see and surprised me.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

More Ambrosia Maple

Pix #1.) Slashed with mineral spirits.
Pix #2.) 2 slices


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Here's a good link on dying and different conditions caused and why during drying on woodweb.com http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Humidity_Control_Warping_and_CaseHardening.html

It also has links to more in depth reading written by the wood doctor Gene. I've talked/discussed with Gene several times, VERY knowledgable AND HELPFUL. IF it's happened he's probably seen it. Thanks Gene!!!
Yes this is the competitors website BUT WE are here to help each other!!! PLEASE mods don't remove!!!


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Kills Bugs Dead!

I finished kilning yesterday. My Ambrosia Maple slices only took 2 days of drying and another day at 140 degrees to do the bug kill.
I was shocked at how fast these end grain slices dried out. It went down to 5 to 6% from 15-35% and some places less than the meter would register after the 2nd day. The 3rd day (bug kill) when I pulled them out of my makeshift kiln, the wood was down to non-registerable %'s. One place did measure 5%. The kiln was at 140 degrees for nearly 24 hours.

An odd thing. When they came out of the kiln, I saw 3 small less than pinky fingernail sized areas with sawdust piles. Must have been the Ambrosia Beetle cooking in the sauna. This assured me that I at least made them uncomfortable before cooking them.

I did get some cracks and a lot of checking but the wood didn't warp hardly at all.
Photo below.
The piece on the left, I'm going to start making a chair out of it. The rest will have to wait till I get time and a planer to finish off as a small kitchen table.
These to me are usable even with the cracks. I fill the cracks with epoxy and it just becomes part of the semi rustic design features.


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