# What Hand plane to get?



## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

So, my wife for fathers day wants to get me a nice hand plane. She has heard me several times saying how much I'd like to do more traditonal type woodworking and steer away from being so dependant on all the power tools. Currently my collection of hand planes consist of 2 stanley #110's. She really wants me to have a nice Lie Neilson Plane that can be handed down to my son later. My question is which one to get. I was thinking maybe the #5 or the Low angle Jack plane. I'm leaning towards the low angle plane b/c you can get different knives for it to make it perform like a #5 (atleast thats how I undertood the add). Anyway, I'm pretty much a novice at hand planes and need some advice before we make such a large purchase. I guess my use for it would consist of trueing/flattening & jointing boards and general use. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks everyone, Jeremy


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## nzgeordie (Apr 25, 2009)

Hi Jeremy. Seems like you're looking for a one-size-fits-all. Problem is, you need different planes for different jobs. For jointing, you'd need to go for a plane with a long sole (22" or 24"). Maybe a 18" fore plane for long flat surfaces, a 10-1/4" smoothing plane for cleaning -up, while a low angle plane is good for end-grain. Lie Neilson is good brand but IMHO you'd need to decide what you want to do with the plane(s) first.
Of course, if she REALLY loves you she'd buy the lot


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

nz, I understand the need for different planes for different jobs. I had recently read an article about the Lie Neilson low angle Jack plane, and basically what it said was that this plane was the "jack of all planes" so to speak. B/c it has 3 different blades that can be attached to it, each with different cutting angles. The article said that that this plane would be a great pick if someone was to only buy 1 plane. So I guess I should re-word my question to, If you could only buy 1 plane which one would it be? My wife loves me plenty, but I aint getting the whole lot:laughing:. If we didn't have 3 kids and lots & lots of bills I'd prob already have the whole shibang.


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## nzgeordie (Apr 25, 2009)

Jeremy. Sorry if I came across like I was trying to tell my Granny how to suck eggs. Lie Neilsen is a great brand and well known even here down under. If it's got to be only one, then that sounds like a versatile plane. I still think that a jointer plane needs a long sole but hey - I do a lot of my jointing on the RT these days. Hope you enjoy whatever you get.:smile:


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## fanback (Mar 9, 2008)

When your only having one:
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=164

I've got all kinds of planes around....but seem to use this one all the time. Wonderfull unit!


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Due to some financial downfalls recently, the hand plane has been on hold for a little while, but thats kinda a good thing. Id like to get more feedback on what other planes people might recommend.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Jeremy - I've got some very nice older Millers Falls, Record, and Bailey planes. Very few of these was much over $50, many were $20-$30 if you catch the right one. Generally $40-$60 buys a very nice example of these older planes, and they work great. :thumbsup: $20 can buy a good one if you're willing to clean it up. Most of the older planes have been fettled at some point, so there's really not a lot of work on many of them. 

Can't say as though they're comparable to a LN but they work well, have excellent machining and metallurgy, and are worthy to be passed on to future generations. I'd think a #3 smoother and a #5 or 5-1/2 jack would allow you to do a lot of handwork. A #4 is always pretty universal too, but isn't as good as a jointer as the 5 or 5-1/2. Since you've got a block plane...if I could only get one, it'd be a 5 or 5-1/2 for me...the 5-1/2 is the one I reach for most.

MF #08, 09, 11, 14 (Stanley 3, 4, 5-1/4, and 5 equivalent):









Record 09-1/2, 03, 04, 04-1/2, 05, 05-1/2, 06, 07:









Bailey #5-1/4, late type 13:









MF #18 (#6 equ):









Record #04-1/2 (this one was more like $85, but is mint :thumbsup:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Knotscott, Im all about the older handtools. Every chance I get to grab one I usually do. I think my wife just wants to get me something extremly nice and shiny so that it can be said that I was the original owner of it when it gets passed down to my great great great grandson. I actually went to the flea market here yesterday looking for an old bench clamp or two for my bench im gonna start on and found a guy who a few old stanley bailey #6 planes. I grabbed the best looking one of the bunch (thats not giving it a compliment though) and asked how much for it and he told me $15.00. Well I was about $5.00 short on cash so I got it for $10.00. I dont know too much about the #6 but I figured for it's age it was worth 10.00. Anywho, i'm gonna try to clean er up a bit and see if it's servicable and if not then I guess i'll have something to just look at.


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## fanback (Mar 9, 2008)

Jeremy...I wish you better times financially speaking. As a professional woodworker...I'm no stranger to being broke. Went to your web site...you do very nice work indeed.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

That was money well spent. It's worth more than $10 in parts, and you may be surprised at how well it cleans up. Even things like breaks in the totes can be nicely repaired....or if necessary, the tote can often be replaced by a better tote from a similar era for < $10. The education factor and getting your feet wet is priceless. 

The #6 is often referred to as a fore plane. They're often a good value because they tend to be less popular because they're less versatilite than a #5, and not as good at jointing as a #7, but I happen to like the size and feel of a #6 and use them a lot....I currently have two, and had a very nice WWII era Bailey that I needed to sell to finance my new TS last summer. 

I'd love to see some pics...good luck!

Here's a glimpse of my former Bailey #6 that's gone to a good home! :thumbsup:









In case you haven't seen these websites, here are a couple of very good links about old planes:
Rexmill.com 

Cianperez.com/woodworking/fossil fuel friendly


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## Alex121 (May 25, 2009)

Jeremy-you could also make your own-here are some Krenov style I've made -








three of four I made from a stump of rosewood-
























two from zebra-wood-
















cocobolo and walnut-
























an old favorite-








-rounding off the sharp corners-
alex


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Here is a few pics of the #6 I purchased. By the way, it says SW with a heart around it on the blade. What does that mean? I started cleaning it up and when I get it completed I'll post some pics. Alex, I have a plane that I made a few months ago. When I get around my camera I'll take some pics.


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## Webster (Mar 6, 2009)

firefighteremt153 said:


> Here is a few pics of the #6 I purchased. By the way, it says SW with a heart around it on the blade. What does that mean?


The logo is called a Sweetheart logo.
From what I have learned is....... They were made from around 1910ish - 1930ish?. It was named after a valued employee of Stanley, with the last name Hart and have also heard they were marketed for war vets coming home to their sweethearts. They were classified 'above average' as far s quality goes. They're sought after by collectors, plus much more that I can't think of right now....but all these things add up to extra $$$ for their worth.

Nice find though!
Keep us posted on the progress.

Rick


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, here is the finished product. Several hours of scraping, scrubbing, sweating, polishing, and research. It turned out better than I thought it would and I'm very pleased with the $10.00 purchase I made and look forward to visiting the flea market soon. Sorry the pics aren't that great, my good camera is MIA so I had to opt for the camera phone. I'll try to remember to post some pics of the wooden plane I made when I get home tomorrow.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

That's insane Jeremy! Hard to believe it's the same plane....amazing job! :thumbsup:


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah, thats kinda the same response I gave myself when I was finished with it and stood back and looked at it. Definetly a great learning experience. Now I just gotta figure out how to use it properly..


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## olfrt (Jul 30, 2009)

Great restoration!
If you want to find more about the plane Patrick Leach has a site named Blood and Gore that is fascinating, and this page will help you too: http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/stan-bpl/bailey-types.htm There is an aura of romance in these old planes, and using a tool that is a hundred or so years old is great too.


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## olfrt (Jul 30, 2009)

Finally found the url for Blood and Gore: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
This site is not to be missed!!! Have fun.


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## thekctermite (Dec 23, 2007)

Congrats on a nice job restoring that old Stanley. It is fun to research the history on them and find out when they were made and such. Once they're done it is very rewarding to make nice long curls with them.

I got a nice little #3 a while back and after lots of TLC that thing is just a joy to use. I left it as original as I could, so it isn't beautiful, but it is the best performing plane I have ever used. 

I've also picked up several other sizes on ebay and from Brass City Records. A few have been fully restored and a couple still need to be.

That being said, I still want a bronze Lie-Neilsen #5. Someday.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

thanks for the link olfrt, i actually got to use the plane yesterday for the first time and im still smiling. It was the first time ive ever used a plane with the exception of a small block plane and wasn't really positive if I had it set up correctly, but it was shaving some black cherry paper thin and never chattered or had any problems that I could tell. I just need to do more research on how exactly to use planes for straightening and flattening.


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## frostr2001w (May 21, 2009)

Harber freight has a really nice wood handled smooth plane for $9.00.. I picked one up yesterday as starter plane. I had no plane prior.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Frostr - My first planes were a set from the Homier (HMC) "traveling circus" for $9.99 that's very similar to the one pictured below. They were crap and an absolute waste of $10.79 after tax. :thumbdown: For years I avoided using hand planes because I thought what I had was all they had to offer. :no:










I can't say from personal experience, but I suspect that the HF #4 may have a similar pedigree. Here's an offer that should land you a better plane if you're interested. I'll give you the Craftsman #4 shown below if you're willing cover the shipping...it can't be more than the HF plane will bring when you return it. :laughing: It's cleaned up, reasonably sharp, setup for a large shaving at the moment, and is capable of good work. It's not one of their heralded older ones, but it is made in the USA and is well made. Send me a PM if you're interested.


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## frostr2001w (May 21, 2009)

THANKS Mr knotscott! I am curious in what it is that makes the difference in planes. . As a novice I can only guess the hardness or makeup of the blade, which I figured I could replace with a good one. And maybe the flatness of the bottom or maybe the balance and confort feel? Thanks for the offer , I will decide upon your reply. What difference do you suppose I will notice when I try to run the plane over say a piece of Red oak? 
Thanks again


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

frostr2001 said:


> THANKS Mr knotscott! I am curious in what it is that makes the difference in planes. . As a novice I can only guess the hardness or makeup of the blade, which I figured I could replace with a good one. And maybe the flatness of the bottom or maybe the balance and confort feel? Thanks for the offer , I will decide upon your reply. What difference do you suppose I will notice when I try to run the plane over say a piece of Red oak?
> Thanks again


Any poorly made tool will struggle to do the intended task, which makes it frustrating to use. A poorly made plane will be difficult to tune precisely and even more difficult keep tuned, which means it'll be prone to gouging, tearing, chattering, and being thrown against a wall.:2guns:

In a nutshell, subtle design differences, stiffness, precision and metallurgy are better on a better plane...the same principles that make any tool or cutter better than another. The quality of the steel on the blade is part of it, but also the overall quality, thickness, and precision of the casting, the quality and fit of the cap iron, the seating and consistency of the frog, the lever cap, the quality of all the other parts, adjustment screws, finished craftsmanship, etc., that all add up to a plane that can be finely tuned, hold settings, and keep a sharp edge for a reasonable amount of time. Most importantly, a better plane should be a pleasure to use because it does what it should without creating unnecessary obstacles, whether you set it up for fine shavings, or roughing work. The subtle difference will be best noted once you've looked closely at a cheap plane and a good plane. 

Since I've never examined the HF plane, I could have it all wrong, but precision and fine quality have never been their niche.


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## Webster (Mar 6, 2009)

knotscott said:


> In a nutshell, subtle design differences, stiffness, precision and metallurgy are better on a better plane...the same principles that make any tool or cutter better than another. The quality of the steel on the blade is part of it, but also the overall quality, thickness, and precision of the casting, the quality and fit of the cap iron, the seating and consistency of the frog, the lever cap, the quality of all the other parts, adjustment screws, finished craftsmanship, etc., that all add up to a plane that can be finely tuned, hold settings, and keep a sharp edge for a reasonable amount of time. Most importantly, a better plane should be a pleasure to use because it does what it should without creating unnecessary obstacles, whether you set it up for fine shavings, or roughing work. The subtle difference will be best noted once you've looked closely at a cheap plane and a good plane.


Extremely well put, my friend.


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

frost, I actually bought that plane from HF a few years back. It was an impulse purchase. Worst $9 I ever spent on a tool/paper weight. I am alot more educated in hand planes than I was then, I think $9 worth of 40 grit sandpaper would be a better purchase, but that's just my opinion of the plane I purchased from them. I hope you get better results than I did.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Jeremy - Bob's agreed to accept my offer for the Craftsman plane. It's no Lie Nielsen but it should be a fair bit better than the HF. Thanks for letting us "borrow" your post!


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## firefighteremt153 (Jan 25, 2008)

knotscott, you are a generous man for giving away one of your planes. bye the way, I have been using that #6 just about every day since I've had it finished and I'm just amazed at how addicting hand planes are. I can't wait to find my next treasure and get it restored and in service.


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