# Face Frame... without Clamps!?



## Thadius856 (Nov 21, 2011)

Will be starting work on the face frame for my 12' library wall. Each unit will be installed in place by the time I start (screwed to studs), so there will be no way to access the backside, and thus to clamp with a traditional bar or pipe clamp.

My first though was to shoot a few well-placed wire nails. But then I have to using a filler and hope it stains evenly.

Second idea was to use biscuits (don't have a FF biscuit jointer, so it'd be #0's) and gently glue rub the joint. Not sure if that'll hold though.

Any other ideas that don't break the bank on tools? No, I don't have a pocket hole set up.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Glue and brads. :smile:


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## cocheseuga (Dec 15, 2010)

Have a router? Could use a slot-cutting bit and a hardwood spline.

The Kreg mini jig is cheap enough, but then you'd need to fill the holes with plugs.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Make the cabinets frameless, and use an iron on wood tape.










 







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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

There are clamps that will work for what you want.

http://www.rockler.com/c/clamps.cfm

Look down the left column for the Three Way Clamp. These often come in handy.

George

PS I should add that I have found these clamps for much, much less money than Rockler wants.


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## Jim Moe (Sep 18, 2011)

If you have a table saw and a dado set, you could dado the backs of the face frame pieces and glue and miter the corners.


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## Thadius856 (Nov 21, 2011)

The 3-way clamps look intriguing. Unfortunately, the Harbor Freight (my typical source for bar clamps) version only fits 2-3/8" wide by 2-3/8" deep... and my face frame stiles are closer to 3" wide. No way I'm paying Rockler price ($35 ea). I'll keep looking around, but I'm not seeing anything over 2½" that I can afford a bunch of.

Ripping dadod down the backs is an interesting idea, though I'd also have to dado the shelves horizontally out of the stiles.

Already built four of the carcasses, with the pieces for the fifth already cut out, so it's a bit late for frameless.

I do have a router... three in fact. However there's no nailing in the center of the stiles (except a few pieces of blocking)!


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

I'm thinking that 23 gauge headless pins are so small they wouldn't be seen. Things are stubborn little suckers too so I think they would likely hold stuff till the glue set up anyway.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25406

That Porter Cable only takes 1" pins, this Hitachi will shoot 1-3/8"
Amazon.com: Hitachi 23 NP35A Gauge Micro Pin Nailer: Home Improvement


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Thadius856 said:


> Already built four of the carcasses, with the pieces for the fifth already cut out, so it's a bit late for frameless.


What did you do...leave spaces in between? You could mount the face frames by nailing in a 4d finishing nail into the front edge of the cabinet, and snipping off the head at an angle leaving about 1/2"-5/8" protruding, and then put some glue on the leading edge of the cabinet and pound the frames onto the nails.










 







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## Thadius856 (Nov 21, 2011)

The first link is back to the clamps. Accidental?

Wish I could shoot those pins, but... right now my only nailer is a cordless Paslode on Tall Yellow cells. :\


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## Thadius856 (Nov 21, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> What did you do...leave spaces in between? You could mount the face frames by nailing in a 4d finishing nail into the front edge of the cabinet, and snipping off the head at an angle leaving about 1/2"-5/8" protruding, and then put some glue on the leading edge of the cabinet and pound the frames onto the nails.


Something like that, actually...


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Thadius856 said:


> The first link is back to the clamps. Accidental?
> 
> Wish I could shoot those pins, but... right now my only nailer is a cordless Paslode on Tall Yellow cells. :\


Sorry about that;
Amazon.com: Porter-Cable PIN100 1/2-Inch to 1-Inch 23-Gauge Pin Nailer: Home Improvement


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Thadius856 said:


> Something like that, actually...
> 
> http://postimage.org/image/92nadjdqb/


Did you build the boxes and then install them?










 







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## Thadius856 (Nov 21, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Did you build the boxes and then install them?


Built and put in place, yes.

Waiting to finish the center unit (this weekend I hope) and recessed lighting before I put attach to the studs. But yes, that's the idea... wasn't many other ways with every wall wavy as a Pringle, an uneven floor, and a sloped ceiling.


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## PPBART (Oct 7, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> ...You could mount the face frames by nailing in a 4d finishing nail into the front edge of the cabinet, and snipping off the head at an angle leaving about 1/2"-5/8" protruding, and then put some glue on the leading edge of the cabinet and pound the frames onto the nails.
> 
> 
> > Hmmm... that's a solution I never would have thought of -- but I'll certainly keep it in mind for future reference(!)


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Thadius856 said:


> Built and put in place, yes.


Why didn't you install the frames before placing the cabinets?









 







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## Thadius856 (Nov 21, 2011)

Because the walls bow up to an inch over a two foot span, the ceiling bows over an inch, and the floor is off-level by about half an inch. Can't scribe the outside stiles, top piece, and toe kicks without them in place...

...wife also dictated that I couldn't keep hogging the dining room table for woodworking. lol


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Thadius856 said:


> Because the walls bow up to an inch over a two foot span, the ceiling bows over an inch, and the floor is off-level by about half an inch. Can't scribe the outside stiles, top piece, and toe kicks without them in place...
> 
> ...wife also dictated that I couldn't keep hogging the dining room table for woodworking. lol


What you're describing are the common problems when installing cabinetry. They get dealt with as they are found. The initial measuring should entail evaluating what there is to work with. Many times taking a shortcut to cope with irregular circumstances, can be an exercise in futility...as you are finding out.










 







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## Thadius856 (Nov 21, 2011)

If I've unintentionally "taken a shortcut", then so be it. I'm already over 100 hours into this project so I can't say as I feel that I've tried to cut corners any step of the way. In fact, the assembly method came from this Popular Mechanics article on how to build a bookcase.

On the other hand, every moment I don't have to spend reading a stack of books to research up on techniques is another moment I get to spend time with my family before I'm tasked to deploy, and hence why I ask here. Your Special Forces sword patch tells me that you might understand where I'm coming from.

As it stands right now, I'm looking at a combination of glue, the snipped finishing nails and some #0 biscuits. Thanks to everybody who replied.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

You can use a spring board to act as a clamp on fr.....IF,you can hide the screw hole they sometimes require at top N bttm.You can alternatively use a block on floor....in any case you spring or bow out this pc of scrap to allow the inserstion of blocks(a wedge'y,haha)that act as a clamp on style.Pressure is practically unlimited.Best of luck,BW


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Thadius856 said:


> If I've unintentionally "taken a shortcut", then so be it. I'm already over 100 hours into this project so I can't say as I feel that I've tried to cut corners any step of the way. In fact, the assembly method came from this Popular Mechanics article on how to build a bookcase.
> 
> On the other hand, every moment I don't have to spend reading a stack of books to research up on techniques is another moment I get to spend time with my family before I'm tasked to deploy, and hence why I ask here. Your Special Forces sword patch tells me that you might understand where I'm coming from.
> 
> As it stands right now, I'm looking at a combination of glue, the snipped finishing nails and some #0 biscuits. Thanks to everybody who replied.


The reference to "shortcut" is more of doing the work in a fashion that may seem to be easier or faster. It's a little late now, but for future projects, there are some thoughts to consider. Where you find you might be saving time, it may become time consuming. For example, when the cabinets are installed unfinished, i.e., no faceframe, it becomes a PITA. There are other problems that may be unforeseen. Keeping the cabinet square, and having the face frame end up being placed exactly where intended. There's also aligning the biscuit slots (if you use them...as the article states) on both the front edge and on the face frame. That is easier to do on the bench or floor. 

Personally I don't use biscuits. You still would need a mechanical fastener, or clamps, which brings you back to where you are now. At the onset of planning the work, it's difficult to envision the entire project to make each step of it the most productive and efficient. 










 







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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> You could mount the face frames by nailing in a 4d finishing nail into the front edge of the cabinet, and snipping off the head at an angle leaving about 1/2"-5/8" protruding, and then put some glue on the leading edge of the cabinet and pound the frames onto the nails.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do this for mounting my face frames. I have a problem with the frames moving while clamping. I cut the nails off at about 1/8" and center the face frame. Then when clamping the face frame it doesn't move.
Tom


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

TomC said:


> I do this for mounting my face frames. I have a problem with the frames moving while clamping. I cut the nails off at about 1/8" and center the face frame. Then when clamping the face frame it doesn't move.
> Tom


I first started using that method in the early 70's when remodeling kitchens. There were always those times when installing a back splash, to keep it straight and keep it down on the counter top and against the wall. 

So, I set some finish nails and snipped them off at an angle. Lay down a bead of Polyseamseal (also on the back of the splash), and use a block and hammer and tap down the splash. Works like a charm.

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## Carvel Loafer (Dec 31, 2011)

Lots of good ideas on securing the face frames. Personally, depending on the finish, glue and pin nails would be the easiest for me. Next to that would be the edge clamps; those ones at Rockler look nice. Here is a link to Lee Valley who has forged edge clamps but they look smaller that the ones at Rockler. I've used these forged ones for years on small hardwood edgeing but never for face frames. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=41713&cat=1,43838,43857&ap=1


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