# Can I make dovetails WITHOUT a jig?



## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

According to the book "Complete Book of Woodworking" dovetail joints are "complicated and should not be attempted by the beginner."

Don't know what that means.

I've seen all sorts of YouTube videos saying "Make fast and accurate dovetail joints." All involve some convoluded method of creation. "Draw out your plan on graph paper and spacers and a table saw" or "Get a CAD program and make patterns and use a scroll saw and a home made jig," or "throw some chicken bones around and chant and hope for the best."

But seriously, how hard is it for a simple person (like me) to pick up a dovetail saw and do them by hand? OF COURSE I'll need practice, but is it really THAT difficult to master?

And I must note I'm not willing to spend $300 on jigs and router bits.

Thanks for any and all help!

Bobby


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## gabeleon (Jul 11, 2012)

I look forward to the answers for this question. I too wood like to learn how to make dove tails by hand.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

I have done a fair amount of hand dovetails. If I really take care and I am patient I can get them looking pretty good. I can also do them fast like the youtube videos but they look like crap.

I just built a kitchen that had about thirty DT drawer boxes. I used a router jig because doing them by hand would have taken me much longer. 

When doing hand half blind dovetails, I'll use the drill press and a small fortsner bit to clean out the waste on the pins, then finish it with a chisel. On the tails I use the band saw with a sliding sled setup to speed things up.

The key to any good hand DT work is accurate and careful layout and marking. Also mark the waste so you don't accidentally cut out the good parts.









The photo shows hand made dovetails on my recently completed buffet.

Bret


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

If you want to do them by hand with only hand tools, watch Rob Cosman's videos.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I don't agree with the statement in the book at all. I am not quite a beginner, somewhere between beginner and intermediate and I started trying them a couple of years ago on small boxes. They really aren't difficult you just need to go slow and be precise with your marks and cuts like Lola Ranch pointed out. 

In addition to the videos listed above there have been a couple of very good tutorials here. Read through them 10-12 times, watch the videos, get a couple of boards and start practicing. Then go back and re-read/watch the tutorials and you'll understand them much better. It can be intimidating at first, but once you try a couple, you will very quickly get the hang of it and have a better understanding of all the tips/techniques put forth in the tutorials. 

When they don't turn out quite as nice as you like, don't just cut them off and discard, spend some time analyzing them and figure out what you did wrong. You'll learn lots from analyzing your mistakes.

Take a couple of boards and make a joint. Analyze it figure out what went right and wrong, cut off the ends and make another joint. By the time you get through 6-8 inches of board you'll be able to cut very nice dovetails.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I LOVE THAT BUFFET!

Is that a stand alone or part of a dinning roon suite?

George


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## Globba (Mar 27, 2012)

I agree with TRC, Just do it. Practice and practice some more. I saved the first hand cut dovetail joint I made in scrape. They have definitely gotten better.
Lola---very nice piece of furniture. Did you do a posting on it?


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

If the book says a beginner should never attempt dovetails, then the book is right.

HOGWASH!!!!!!!

What kind of a lousy statement is that? Jump in man. Both feet. Your first few attempts may not look pretty, but I promise you that what they lack in perfection, they will more than make up for in character and pride. Careful layout of your cuts is important and it is also important to keep your cuts square to your stock as best you can. Take your time and give it a try. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Experts at hand cut dovetails didn't get to be experts by not trying them as a novice. It's a challenge. Grab the bull by the horns and lets see some hand cut dovetails.
Be sure to post your results.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I recall making dovetail joints in a box all the way back in high school. I do not recall what happened to the box. I expect the joints were far less than perfect.

If you want to make a project and have a time constraint, I would not recommend dovetails for a beginner.

If you have no time constraint and are eager to learn, as the other replies state, go for it.

As the other mentioned, layout is very important. You do not "have" to get a dovetail marker, but I think you will love having one.

Not very expensive.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=49424&cat=1,42936,50298

Ensure your chisels are sharp.

Start on a couple of pieces of scrap e.g., pine, only because it is soft so easier to practice the cutting and chiseling.


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## Bill White 2 (Jun 23, 2012)

Your first exercise should be to throw that book away.:thumbdown:
Bill


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## Dave66 (Apr 6, 2012)

Dove tails have been around since Moby Dick was a minnow - long before someone decided that a jig was needed for every cut you might make. Jigs are great in a production environment, but careful layout and cutting is all thats needed for just a few. Get some pine and give it a go. You'll probably use up lots of pine, but it's cheap and every one you toss out will teach you something.

I sometimes think that people overthink things too much.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

I forgot to mention that it is helpful to use a coping saw to cut the waste out between the tails to within a 1/16" or so of your line. Then chop to the line with a chisel. 

There are tons of little tips and nuances I could get into but until you've done a few it won't make any sense.

Bret


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

Here is a great how to that was posted a while back. 
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/hand-cut-dove-tails-new-guys-35853/

And Bret, most of us are mere mortals here we can't even get close to the kind of work you turn out...that walnut dining set is absolutely beautiful.


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

Alright, fellas, its time to get serious!!

I went out yesterday and bought what was as close to an old-fashion dovetail saw as I could find. Not one of these Irwins from the box store but a true backsaw from a Rockler distributer here in town. I asked the old guy there, "I want to cut dovetails, will this do the trick?" He said "Yeah, that'll get er done. You're wanting to do them the old way huh?" I replied, "Yessir. I've tried the 'easy' way and the 'quick' way and I screw them up."

He responded, "we sell the heck out of old planes because they still work."

I'm inspired.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Two essentials to cut dovetails without a jig:

Move to Canada

Buy a chainsaw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyXFE_biEwc&feature=player_embedded#!

The other alternative is to get a good saw and go at it.


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## mn pete (Dec 10, 2010)

I agree with the others above...just jump in and start practicing. I just picked up the Veritas dovetail saws and will be practicing myself. Next weekend I'm planning to start the "Dovetail a Day" plan to build up my skills. I've only cut a few practice ones and that was years ago.


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## Wema826 (Jul 22, 2012)

I disagree with all of the responses that say to throw out that book. 
BURN IT! and laugh and point at it when you do!

I see that you have bought a good dove tail saw. that is going to help you the most. next you will need plenty of practice. and then some more practice. there are tons of videos on YouTube that show all different techniques on how to cut them, the ones i like the most are from a gentleman from UK his name is David Barron. one of his videos is titles hand cut dovetails made easy. Also check out the Master of hand tool work Roy Underhill (the goofy guy on The Woodwrights shop on public TV). he has his own web site www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/ 

Asking what is the best way to cut them to a large group of woodworkers is like asking a large group of housewives what is the best way to clean. you will get a thousand different replies.

Here are the steps I typically use to make hand cut dovetails.

1. prep the stock - milled, planed, marked (sides, fronts, backs etc)

2. lay out - using a marking knife lay out all of your pins and tails. (it would be a good idea to mark your lay out lines on 3 sides of the stock to ensure you do not drift with the saw). mark the waist material in between with a series of "X's" as to not waist the parts we need.

3. sawing - using a dovetail or gents saw cut on the waist side of the lay out lines making sure to leave the line and not cut to deep and keep the saw square to the lay out lines. 

4. Chisel - be sure to clamp your piece to your bench with a backing board under your piece. If the narrow part of of the pins is say 1/2" grab your 3/8" chisel and start to clear the waist from between the tails keeping in mind to get close to your knife line on the bottom of the piece and all the way up to the saw cut. when removing the waist only remove small amounts at a time say maybe 1/8" per cut. this will help reduce blow out. stay about a 1/16" from the bottom knife mark. repeat this process for the pins. keep in mind that the sides of the pins are tappered to to match the tails so angle the chisel and keep the narrow part of the WAIST material on top (this will prevent you crushing the actual pin when chopping out the waist). 

5. once you have all of the waist roughed out. get another sharp chisel this time use the widest appropriate chisel that will fit between the saw kerf and pare down to the knife mark. also i find it best to work from the face side of the piece. (the side that will be seen) in difficult woods or gnarly grain patterns I will pare from both sides of the piece and meet in the middle of the stock, this will usually prevent blow out. 

6. test fit - simply take both pieces and see how they fit together. you should be able to assemble the joint with only hand pressure. and all should be tight. if some are loose and others are tight then there was an issue with the lay out or too much or too little material was removed. this is where you need to analyze where the problem lies. 

some woodworkers will say it does not matter which you cut first, others will swear that there is an order in which to do. my feelings are the tails are what is seen the most since they are typically larger then the pins so i tend to cut them first and use them as a pattern for the lay out of the pins. this allows a little wiggle room, reason being if your lay out lines on the pins are at a different angle that is more acute then the angle of the tail you will end up with a gap. However, in my opinion this is not a set in stone rule. when I use a sliding dove tail or a tappered dovetail I tend to cut the piece that would be considered the "pin" board first and trim the tail piece to size. 

then cut off all the pins and tails and try it again. and again and again. dovetails are very intimidating if you let them be. if you take your time. make your lay out marks correctly and do not get too aggressive with the saw or chisel it takes the aggravation out of the joint. and do not worry about making a mistake. thats how we learn.!


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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

It has been done
It can be done
It has been done for centuries without electricity or MDF or 'router bits'
Study antiques 
Think about what you're doing and the forces to which the joint is going to be subject
You will do fine
Eventually


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## danj (Jul 4, 2012)

FrankC said:


> Two essentials to cut dovetails without a jig:
> 
> Move to Canada
> 
> ...


Hahahahaha. My five-year-old daughter watched with me and said in a puzzled tone, "daddy, what is that guy doing?" 

I replied, "He's cutting dovetails; doesn't that look like the right kind of saw?"

She shook her head.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

A word of caution here:
A "novice" should never, ever use a tool for the very first time. But a book. Then get a picture of a tool and have it framed (remember, you're just a novice and not to try anything) and then you can look at it and dream of doing.
For those novices that ignore the rules, you will loose your novice status and actually have to do some woodworking. Then, gasp, you will find yourself progressing forward with newfound skills and abilities and surely you don't want that to happen, WELL DO YOU??? LOL.LOL 
If you have an outhouse take that book out there and use it for you know what. If no outhouse, do what others have recommended. Burn the dang thing.
1. read up on how to make a DT
2. get a two pieces of 3/4" x 6" wood.
3. lay out pins and tails
4. take a saw and cut them out leaving some waste
5. take a chisel and clean them up
6. test fit, see what more you need to do.
7. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. All you really need is a pencil, a 12 inch ruler, a coping saw, a chisel, a mallet and the will to succeed. (a knife to strike your base line is helpful, but not mandatory)


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

First of all, dovetails aren't rocket science. For a book to discourage a novice from even trying is almost shameful.


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## JBSmall (Jul 6, 2012)

All I really need is a marking gauge, pencil, angle gauge, square, dovetail saw, chisels, mallet, and knife.
And I can do just fine without the marking gauge and angle gauge if I need to.
The knife is needed to mark the pins, as a pencil-line is a mile wide in comparison.
With no "fitting".
But that is after 37 years of chest-of-drawers-making, dovetailing every drawer, and many of the cases, too.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

Lola Ranch said:


> I have done a fair amount of hand dovetails. If I really take care and I am patient I can get them looking pretty good. I can also do them fast like the youtube videos but they look like crap.
> 
> I just built a kitchen that had about thirty DT drawer boxes. I used a router jig because doing them by hand would have taken me much longer.
> 
> ...


That is, in one word, BEAUTIFUL.


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