# Electrical advice



## Longknife (Oct 25, 2010)

There has been a number of threads recently were people have asked for advice on electrical matters. The posters often seem to have little knowledge on electricity and unfortunatly some of the responses don't seem to come from experts either. This has made me thinking. Of course I realise there is only a good intention in the advices, people just try to be helpful, but the consequenses could be really bad. There is only one good advice on electrical matters - *consult a licensed electrician and never do anything on your own.*
I'm no saint in this respect, I have been a farmer and I realise that there are situations when you just have to fix something. However I never do electrical work for anyone else, I never give advise and if I have done something that will be permanent I always verify my work with an electrician.
If someone with little knowledge follows a bad advise given on the forum the result could be death or injury to himself or family members or a burnt down house where no insurance will apply.
I'm not picking on anybody in particular, the matter has just made me thinking and I wanted to share that.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

You make a very valid point.

Gerry


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

I'll chime in to repeat a comment I made in one of those thread. Apparently some insurance carriers will try to deny claims if they think the claim resulted from electrical work done without some required permit.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Longknife said:


> There has been a number of threads recently were people have asked for advice on electrical matters. The posters often seem to have little knowledge on electricity and unfortunatly some of the responses don't seem to come from experts either. This has made me thinking. Of course I realise there is only a good intention in the advices, people just try to be helpful, but the consequenses could be really bad. There is only one good advice on electrical matters - *consult a licensed electrician and never do anything on your own.*
> I'm no saint in this respect, I have been a farmer and I realise that there are situations when you just have to fix something. However I never do electrical work for anyone else, I never give advise and if I have done something that will be permanent I always verify my work with an electrician.
> If someone with little knowledge follows a bad advise given on the forum the result could be death or injury to himself or family members or a burnt down house where no insurance will apply.
> I'm not picking on anybody in particular, the matter has just made me thinking and I wanted to share that.


I agree 100%. This thread is over a year old, but needs to be bumped. Members still come out of the woodwork to offer their opinions on electrical questions. 

In simple terms, some advice should only come from a real expert, not an internet one. There are plenty of internet experts on any subject. I would extend this to getting advice on structural questions. That's why there are engineers specializing in certain fields that, like electricians, can evaluate the conditions involved with the request that can have an affect on the outcome. It's impossible to know what exists without actually seeing it on site, and having the experience and educational background to offer such advice.









 







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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

I wholehearedly agree with the OP and C-man on this. My father is a licensed electrician, and has taught me enough to be dangerous, and I know I have in the past got caught-up in some of the electrical discussions, but knowing that I am NOT a licensed electrician, I decided to not to pipe in. 

There are many ways to get electricity to do things you want them to do, but not all are the right, or safe way to do them. Just because someone might be able to "gerry-rig" something, and it works for them, doesn't mean that it is the right way to do it. There is a reason that there are codes for electrical work. Electricity can kill you (it doesn't take much), or burn down your house if you are not careful in how it is installed and wired.

If you don't know what you are doing, find someone that is QUALIFIED to do the work.

Fabian


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Not relying on internet advice as gospel, that sounds good but I disagree about *always* consulting a licensed electrician and *never *doing stuff on your own. For fifty bucks an hour, it isn't that hard to read, and national electric code is online. I always plan my work in detail and then, with all that organized, I have a meeting with my inspectors _before getting out the tools. _They really appreciate it, and the final job is done a lot cheaper than using pros, and frequently with more attention to detail. Just be sure you have your permits, get your approvals, and most of all - know what you don't know.

Asking questions on the 'net is a good way to jump start your reading, but it is not a substitute for compliance with code and getting local inspectors' blessing. Never ever doing your own work? Phooey, I'm about to pull a permit to run a 4-circuit 60amp subpanel to my 2nd floor to replace the single knob-tube circuit with the flickering lights. I'll be out time and materials, including two books and copies of two articles from mags at the library. Bids from the pros ranged from $3500-6000. But I'll follow my own advice, by showing all the planned circuit sketches to the inspector before I do anything else. The books have chapters on how to draw these diagrams so the inspector can tell what you wanna do.

But I agree, of course, about not just hacking something based on advice from yahoo's on forums (oops, that means me)


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

I graduated in both Mechanical and Electrical a long time ago and was very active in the field, from high voltage distribution, to industrial, commercial and residential. I try to keep up with the regs, but don't do this physically every day any longer. Very infrequently I would do a little consulting or project management.

Being out of practice, the last time I installed some wiring in my own house, while wifey was standing on the sidewalk, talking to the neighbor, my fish tape slipped and vaporized with a bang into a big cloud of smoke. My wife thought I just died. :laughing:

In short, even if we have all the knowledge and expertise, it is probably best not to give electrical advice to someone who is not capable in the field.

On the other hand, a table saw is just as dangerous, if not more, but because this is woodwork here, I guess it is OK.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Got the Video?*

LOL :laughing: that would have been great on You Tube. 
I assume you shorted it out on something capable of high frequency weldments? Did the breaker trip or just your wife? Is she still your wife? or did she move on to safer pastures? :blink:
You still like an adernalin rush or you wouldn't ride.....just sayin'  bill


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

SteveEl said:


> Not relying on internet advice as gospel, that sounds good but I disagree about *always* consulting a licensed electrician and *never *doing stuff on your own. For fifty bucks an hour, it isn't that hard to read, and national electric code is online. I always plan my work in detail and then, with all that organized, I have a meeting with my inspectors _before getting out the tools. _They really appreciate it, and the final job is done a lot cheaper than using pros, and frequently with more attention to detail. Just be sure you have your permits, get your approvals, and most of all - know what you don't know.
> 
> Asking questions on the 'net is a good way to jump start your reading, but it is not a substitute for compliance with code and getting local inspectors' blessing. Never ever doing your own work? Phooey, I'm about to pull a permit to run a 4-circuit 60amp subpanel to my 2nd floor to replace the single knob-tube circuit with the flickering lights. I'll be out time and materials, including two books and copies of two articles from mags at the library. Bids from the pros ranged from $3500-6000. But I'll follow my own advice, by showing all the planned circuit sketches to the inspector before I do anything else. The books have chapters on how to draw these diagrams so the inspector can tell what you wanna do.
> 
> But I agree, of course, about not just hacking something based on advice from yahoo's on forums (oops, that means me)


I hear you there, Steve. I learned so that I could save myself money as well, but I learned from a licensed electrician (my father). There is a ton of knowledge available on the internet, but not all of it is accurate. Books are a great source of information, and can really help you learn the ins and outs.

My main message that I was trying to convey was that if you don't know what you are doing, then don't do it. 

Fabian


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

thegrgyle said:


> My main message that I was trying to convey was that *if you don't know what you are doing, then don't do it. *
> 
> Fabian


Yeah, but I'd still be a virgin if it weren't for an older woman who knew exactly what she was doing.... 

This also applies to many things I attempt to do....just sayin' :yes: bill


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Yeah, but I'd still be a virgin if it weren't for an older woman who knew exactly what she was doing....


Not exactly rocket science...just sayin'.









 







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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> Not exactly rocket science...just sayin'.
> 
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Nope, not now. :no: If fact, I can do it with my eyes closed and both hands tied behind my back...just sayin' The age difference was 2x and at the time it was more mysterious than forbidden. :smile: bill


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

I go on the sister side of this site, the diy forum also. I never cease to be amazed at some of the questions asked and some of the bad advice given. I only comment on areas I know well and am absolutely sure of my answer. Some threads I won't comment on whenever there is a lot of ridiculous advice going back and forth. 
I know enough about residential electrical to do whatever I need for my own stuff, but I will still call up my electrician buddy and have him stop by for the bigger items. When I wired up the new shop, I had my brother in law stop over and help. He's a retired electrician. Makes the job go a lot easier.
Mike Hawkins


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Nope, not now. :no: If fact, I can do it with my eyes closed and both hands tied behind my back...just sayin'


That's some ritual you got there Bill. I'm just used to the traditional way...just sayin'.










 







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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*while not limited to that procedure*



cabinetman said:


> That's some ritual you got there Bill. I'm just used to the traditional way...just sayin'.
> 
> 
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You are quite the traditionalist ...just sayin'


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> You are quite the traditionalist ...just sayin'


It's the man/woman thing...just sayin'.










 







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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I would certainly hope so*



cabinetman said:


> It's the man/woman thing...just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anything other would be totally unexpected....just sayin'


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

I am a licensed electrician and it never ceases to amaze me at the things some people do with electricity and the "advise" I see other people giving them.

When asked for advise on electrical issues in these forums, I am very hesitant to offer it because I do not know the person asking.

I always tell them to contact an electrician in their area. 

Code enforcement varies greatly from one area to another, a lot of cities and states add to the NEC and only a local electrician would know these additions.

I will speak up if I think someone is doing something dangerous.

And to answer the most common question I see asked in these forums one more time: 
I don't care how many people tell you that their switch arcs when they turn the power on or off.....No, that is NOT normal !

Glad to see this thread where people realize that electricity isn't something to play with.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've always had the opinion that someone asking questions on a forum has already made the decision to do the work themselves. They already know there are people trained as electricians but are going to do it themselves. I believe to give them advise is better than them just guessing on what to do. Normally there are a few giving bad advise but if one reads all the post the majority are giving the same advise. 

When a person hires an electrician they expect the security that the work is done correctly and safe. This is not always the case so I would encourage anyone to learn basic wiring even if you hire an electrician to do the work. You need to double check their work. In my remodeling business I had to learn electrical wiring because the work some of the electricians I was hiring were not up to code and the building inspectors were red tagging the electrical. I had to learn how to double check their work before I called for inspection.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

While there has been a lot of debate here on the forum and a lot of discussion about the subject, there are strong opinions which will agree with you while others won't.

Personally, I believe a table saw in the wrong hands, as well as a shaper, can do a lot more damage than 110/120/220/240 V as in residential or commercial wiring. When it comes to industrial and high voltage distribution, obviously the risk is much higher.

With electricity, it is pretty simple to open a circuit and lock it open, so it remains safe while anyone works on it. With a table saw, a jointer, a shaper, unfortunately we cannot say the same thing.

I for one, would not discourage the non-electrical expert to do his own work, as so many out there do, provided they take the time to research properly.

It is also important to note, that there is a wealth of electrical knowledge and skill, that goes very far beyond what the average Licensed Contractor needs to know.


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

Willem, I agree with most of what you said. However, statistics clearly show that more people are killed by 120v or less. Voltage doesn't kill, it just hurts more the higher it is. Amperage is what kills, it can take less than 1 amp to put your heart into fibralation.


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## Benny Blanco (Apr 21, 2012)

I work on direct current machine tool drives, voltages occur up to 600.
There is no way to trouble shoot, or adjust the 88 circuits unless they are powered up.
Number one, "Keep One Hand In Your Pocket".
Having one hand on the machine the other in the danger zone could be fatal, just one slip, the electricity will travel through your heart.
Thats my only advice working on live circuits.
The rest, if some one is asking anything about their electrical service, they should not be working on it.


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