# Need Help. Table Design hard to glue



## KevinB14 (May 16, 2021)

Hi Guys, 
New here. Looking for some tips on how to glue up this table I designed. I have 75 each of the large parallelograms in walnut and cherry and 72 of each for smaller ones. I have to glue these in a pattern with maple strips separating rows of the pattern. It’s a lot of pieces and they need to be clamped while it’s being glued to close gaps and counteract any small deformations in the wood. Any tips on how I can glue this while clamping when you have so many pieces. I think I would need a good 30mins of working time to do this but wood glues just don’t have that as far as I know.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I would make a jig to hold the small cross members in place. 

George


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

It is a beautiful table top design, but those pieces of wood look very beefy, which could lead to problems in the future, after the glue-up. I am concerned that your table will start to show cracks and gaps after it is built, due to wood movement. Sometimes the gaps appear between pieces, and sometimes the glue holds and the wood itself cracks. It is a force of nature that cannot be stopped. Do a web search for "wood movement".

In your design, the grain on the long strips is nearly perpendicular to the grain on the angled pieces. You may start to see gaps between the long pieces and the angled cherry/walnut strips, as the long pieces contract (and expand). You may also see unevenness at the ends of the table. Those are hunches. 

I made a similar mistake on my first coffee table design. It started showing significant gaps in less than a year. It was oak arranged in a block pattern with thin walnut strips between, all from regular 3/4 inch thick boards. The oak and walnut pattern had grain going both ways. The matching end tables did the same thing.

We have a couple antique tables with beautiful cross-grain patterns, but they are thin veneer patterns on top of regular all-in-one-direction solid wood substrates. They have held up for ~100 years. Do a web image search for "veneer pattern table top". Because your design is not veneer, it may not hold up as well.

I am sorry to rain on your parade, especially after you are so far along on the project. Perhaps I missed an important detail.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Take to heart the advice given above, sadly many unique designs don't show up in actual projects because they don't stand the test of time. It would be a shame to spend hours on such a project only to be disappointed down the road. 
How do we know this, probably because one of our earlier projects suffered that effect. 😀


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Typically, the small pieces are glued and clamped in such a way as to make larger strips, then set aside. This makes it easier to manage than 7,000 small pieces at one time. Make a jig to set them in and rather than clamps use wedges against stops. This is far easier than trying to hold and tighten a clamp.



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=clamping+with+wedges


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## KevinB14 (May 16, 2021)

I appreciate the insight. I considered doing an end grain table but wanted the wood character to come through more. I’m aware that it may move but I’m counting on the dryness of the wood (8%) and consistent indoor humidity to keep it from shifting too much. I may be wrong. However, I am passed the point of no return and I have to assemble this thing. We shall see what happens and I can post here in a few years and comment as to who was right. Really looking for adhesive tips on how I can extend working time. I have a good clamping system and method for assembly. Just need to know what the best option for glue would be. I’m thinking the extended time titebond maybe but I’m not sure. Epoxy was an option but I think I could use a little of the pigment from wood glue filling small gaps


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## KevinB14 (May 16, 2021)

it may be one of the less structurally sound things I’ve designed, and trust me I know the math behind it I’m an aerospace engineer, but... look at it tho. It’s going to be so pretty even if its fleeting


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## NewBlackDak (Mar 15, 2021)

KevinB14 said:


> it may be one of the less structurally sound things I’ve designed, and trust me I know the math behind it I’m an aerospace engineer, but... look at it tho. It’s going to be so pretty even if its fleeting


You could cut veneers from it after the glue up to achieve the look without the structural issues. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

Getting back to your original question, I’m not sure if it will help enough, but Titebond makes extend versions of some of their glues with increased working time.


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

KevinB14 said:


> Hi Guys,
> New here. Looking for some tips on how to glue up this table I designed. I have 75 each of the large parallelograms in walnut and cherry and 72 of each for smaller ones. I have to glue these in a pattern with maple strips separating rows of the pattern. It’s a lot of pieces and they need to be clamped while it’s being glued to close gaps and counteract any small deformations in the wood. Any tips on how I can glue this while clamping when you have so many pieces. I think I would need a good 30mins of working time to do this but wood glues just don’t have that as far as I know.


Get familiar with hot hide glue. You need the flakes, vessel like a small crock pot and a candy thermometer.
The flakes are dissolved in water and heated to 140°. The glue is brushed on and if necessary wait to the glue cools. Then put all the parts together without clamps. A heat gun moved over the joints will activate the glue. then you can push the joints together ,clamp if needed or if you have pinch dogs tap them in ,they leave a small hole. 
This way you can do the joints at your leisure and do not have to worry about open time. Also this glue is reversible if needed. Play a heat gun over the joint and pull the joint apart.
mike


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## redeared (Feb 7, 2019)

I was going to say hide glue also, the pots are a little pricey IMHO, if you don't plan on using it often, but clean up of extra glue is easy with water. With some glue ups even the longer setting time set up time with Titebond is not enough, on some chairs I might have 30+ joints to glue up in one shot. That is a good time to have a number of people to help. If I am alone I go with Elmers Pro yellow glue it has a longer set time than Titebond and it doesn't run and drip like Titebond


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

redeared said:


> I was going to say hide glue also, the pots are a little pricey IMHO, if you don't plan on using it often, but clean up of extra glue is easy with water. With some glue ups even the longer setting time set up time with Titebond is not enough, on some chairs I might have 30+ joints to glue up in one shot. That is a good time to have a number of people to help. If I am alone I go with Elmers Pro yellow glue it has a longer set time than Titebond and it doesn't run and drip like Titebond


You do not need an expensive electric glue pot. I bought a $10.00 small crock pot and a candy thermometer from Target. 
.I store unused glue in a plastic container in the refrigerator if I will use it within a week. Otherwise it goes in the freezer for long term storage. I pour the glue in an old ice cube tray, after the cubes are frozen I put them in a sealed bag or plastic container. Sometimes I only need a small amount of glue, I heat as many cubes as I need.
I am also a home shop machinist. A week ago I needed to face 8 steel disks . I glued them onto a face plate. Machined them and heated with a heat gun to remove them. Just one example of how useful hot hide glue can be.
.
mike


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## RioVistaAndy (Feb 22, 2021)

KevinB14 said:


> Hi Guys,
> New here. Looking for some tips on how to glue up this table I designed. I have 75 each of the large parallelograms in walnut and cherry and 72 of each for smaller ones. I have to glue these in a pattern with maple strips separating rows of the pattern. It’s a lot of pieces and they need to be clamped while it’s being glued to close gaps and counteract any small deformations in the wood. Any tips on how I can glue this while clamping when you have so many pieces. I think I would need a good 30mins of working time to do this but wood glues just don’t have that as far as I know.


Any adhesive, even epoxy will experience a slowed cure time if it is kept cold, not freezing, just cold. +2°or 3°C. Or just above 35°F. Many times epoxy can be held overnight.


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## KevinB14 (May 16, 2021)

Lots of good advice here. I looked into hide glue but wasn’t sure about it’s strength compared to wood glue. Additionally, this will be an electronics table for soldering and reflow so didn’t want heat to be an issue after production. I’m testing titebond extend now with two scrap pieces and the stopwatch is at 10mins with the glue still not set so I think it will work for my purposes. Going to do a mock glue up and see what my time is.


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## Wingedwheel (May 17, 2021)

I would suggest the epoxy as well, let us know how what you found works out.


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## GCTony (Apr 5, 2018)

I'm not offering any advise but this spurred a thought/question. Would contact cement be an option for something like this? Instead of the working time of the more conventional glues, maybe the instant bond would have some advantages.


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## KevinB14 (May 16, 2021)

well I finished the shelf. It looks really good if you ask me. Put some Rubio monocoat on it and hung it about two months ago. It seems to be pretty stable. It’s probably too soon to tell about any movement, but I CNC planed it and it’s stayed very flat. I ended up using the extended titebond and it worked well in giving me the working time needed to assemble it all. Let me know what you think


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Im certainly interested to see how well it holds up to seasonal wood movement, but thats still a good looking shelf


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