# will this work?



## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

I am up-cycling cigar boxes in a spare bedroom -- I make trays and false bottoms so there's a bit of sawing involved -- I have a micro mark table saw and a black & decker mouse sander -- I also have a plane and a rasp fwiw --

so I do hook up the table saw to an oreck vacuum -- and I have a box fan in the window right there sucking air out -- and a ceiling fan --

I do the majority of sanding in the back yard but I'd like to make it safe to sand indoors -- after reading on here I will no longer use the sander indoors at all until I get the air filter going --

I was thinking about the 
WEN 3410 3-Speed Remote-Controlled Air Filtration System (300/350/400 CFM)

do I have to hook up duct work and pipes to this thing? it's gonna be tricky enough to get it hanging from the ceiling -- 
is this a good way to go -- should I look at something else?

many thank yous in advance


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

turntable said:


> I am up-cycling cigar boxes in a spare bedroom -- I make trays and false bottoms so there's a bit of sawing involved -- I have a micro mark table saw and a black & decker mouse sander -- I also have a plane and a rasp fwiw --
> 
> so I do hook up the table saw to an oreck vacuum -- and I have a box fan in the window right there sucking air out -- and a ceiling fan --
> 
> ...


I wouldn't get overly obsessed with dust control. I'm 67 years old and have been working wood all my life mostly without any mask or dust control at all and hasn't caused me any health problems. I did wear a chemical respirator when I was cutting MDF but sanding real wood I haven't been concerned with it. I know some people are overly sensitive to the dust but those handful really should find another interest. 

You won't be able to get enough volume of air ducting to a shop vacuum. You would need an actual dust collector for that. Harbor Freight makes a pretty good one for a little over 200 bucks you could use to run ductwork. It draws 1550 CFM. The easiest way to run ductwork is with 4" thin wall PVC pipe. Run it close to the machine and then use a flexible hose to connect it. If running to multiple machines you would also need a gate at each machine so you can only draw from one machine at a time.


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

thank you, steve --

what do you think of the wen? it is a third the size of the one you mentioned and it was my understanding that the wen is already several times bigger than i need for the size of the room which is about 9x10 -- it's only $134  we sleep across the hall from this room and while i don't want to obsess -- i want to be smart -- i'm a few years older than you -- 

btw -- cigar boxes are made out of all kinds of materials and finished with another plethora of shellac, polyurethane, paint etc,-- the wood i'm using for the trays and false bottom is basswood 

WEN 3410 3-Speed Remote-Controlled Air Filtration System (300/350/400 CFM)


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you are not making any chips like from a jointer or planer then the Wen should work. It takes a pretty good suction to pull chips.


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

when it comes to chips I go through more potato chips than wood — a few though — I can get those down the hatch or in the trash pretty easily — it’s all those air born ones I was concerned about — thank you!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

turntable said:


> I am up-cycling cigar boxes in a spare bedroom -- I make trays and false bottoms so there's a bit of sawing involved -- I have a micro mark table saw and a black & decker mouse sander -- I also have a plane and a rasp fwiw --
> 
> so I do hook up the table saw to an oreck vacuum -- and I have a box fan in the window right there sucking air out -- and a ceiling fan --
> 
> ...


NOPE!
There are 3 types of dust collection:
Large chips from planers and jointers.
Sawdust from bandsaws and table saws.
Fine dust from sanding.
Each requires a slightly different method of collection.
Large chips will be fine in a 4" hose from a free standing central dust collector.
Sawdust should be collected right at the source near the blade by a high velocity, low volume shop vac. The dust collector will work also, just not as well. JMO
The fine dust should all be collected by a shop vac connected directly to hand held sanders ROS or belt sanders, OR by a 4" hose on a large drum sander by a free standing central or mobile dust collector of sufficient size, 1.5 HP minimum.

Regardless of using all those methods, some very fine dust will get airborne and this will get in the shop air you breath. The answer to that is a ceiling mounted air filtration unit as you have described. It will exchange the air in a small shop of 400 sq ft several times per hour:








Jet 1000CFM Air Filtration System with Remote


This powerful unit is perfect for the smaller home shop!




www.rockler.com





I have that same model on the ceiling of my shop and the remote make is very handy. A smaller room wouldn't need such a powerful unit, however.


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> NOPE!
> There are 3 types of dust collection:
> Large chips from planers and jointers.
> Sawdust from bandsaws and table saws.
> ...


oh yay oh yay -- what about the wen unit sitting on a 5 ft tall shelf rather than ceiling mounted just initially though -- the celling is only 8ft and there's a ceiling fan smack dab in the middle of it -- so it's gotta be to one side anyway -- i mean it comes with little feet to sit it on a surface -- i think running it from the shelving unit i have -- which is five feet tall and sealing the door off -- i mean how could any little microns survive in there -- then i can tighten things up going forward -- 

and then soon i will change out the home vacuum i have attached to my micromark mini-table saw for a high velocity, low volume shop vac like you said -- and i can get the sander attached to it too maybe -- 

thank you thank you


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

I am one of the unlucky ones when it comes to saw dust. I am 77 and have done wood working most of my life. Saw dust didn't use to bother me at all, but now if I don't wear a good dust mask I have to get out of the shop. I have several fans with good filters going while I am in the shop but and even then while I sand or cut there are airborne particles of dust. I have the two filter on the side type of face mask and I have to wear it all the time in the shop.

Since this is inside your house, you will need all the dust collection you can get, or your house is going to be really dusty.


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

thank you for the heads up, bigjim -- mostly I'm glad you get to continue your woodworking -- best to you


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## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

turntable said:


> I am up-cycling cigar boxes in a spare bedroom -- I make trays and false bottoms so there's a bit of sawing involved -- I have a micro mark table saw and a black & decker mouse sander -- I also have a plane and a rasp fwiw --
> 
> so I do hook up the table saw to an oreck vacuum -- and I have a box fan in the window right there sucking air out -- and a ceiling fan --
> 
> ...


A shop vac would be the preferred option for the sander and the miniature tablesaw. You could get by with your rugsucker but it will probably clog up fairly soon.
For fine dust in the air the exhaust fan will work well - just be sure that there's some way for clean outside air to easily get into the room.
The WEN is something you would use if your climate prevents you from bringing in outside air or the outside air is too polluted to have in your house. Actually, for a small room just adding a MERV 12 or higher filter to the box fan would do just as well.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

HoytC said:


> A shop vac would be the preferred option for the sander and the miniature tablesaw. You could get by with your rugsucker but it will probably clog up fairly soon.
> For fine dust in the air the exhaust fan will work well - just be sure that there's some way for clean outside air to easily get into the room.
> The WEN is something you would use if your climate prevents you from bringing in outside air or the outside air is too polluted to have in your house. Actually, for a small room just adding a MERV 12 or higher filter to the box fan would do just as well.


Certainly the box fan/furnace filter will be cheaper and easy to make, however even the slowest speed moves a good amount of air around. Too much to be working directly in front of it for me, at least. It will blow all your papers off the table if placed high up. I would prefer a smaller unit personally. Easy enough to give it a try though.

You have a choice between a "commercial air filtration" unit such as the Wen or Jet AFS 1000, OR a home air cleaner/filter for smaller scale applications such as a single room. HOWEVER, with a greater quantity of dust being generated, I would choose the larger units.




__





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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

dave,


HoytC said:


> A shop vac would be the preferred option for the sander and the miniature tablesaw. You could get by with your rugsucker but it will probably clog up fairly soon.
> For fine dust in the air the exhaust fan will work well - just be sure that there's some way for clean outside air to easily get into the room.
> The WEN is something you would use if your climate prevents you from bringing in outside air or the outside air is too polluted to have in your house. Actually, for a small room just adding a MERV 12 or higher filter to the box fan would do just as well.


oooh less expensive -- one of my favorite things --
if i don't get the wen air filtration box:

thankfully, the room has two windows -- i'm in west tennessee -- weather has hot & cold extremes but no worries --

1.) so i should make a better fitting frame around the box fan so the outside air only comes in from the other window -- yes?

2.a.) what about the air vents in the room? there's an in vent and an out vent -- anything i should do with those? 
2.b.) what about running the ceiling fan? think that helps or hurts --

3.) and_ "Actually, for a small room just adding a MERV 12 or higher filter to the box fan would do just as well."_ 
so this captures the fine particles -- doesn't that prevent them from leaving the room? not sure how that works -- 

thank you, dave


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

1 - 12 of 12 Posts
*woodnthings*


so you don't put the fan in the window blowing out? 

_"Certainly the box fan/furnace filter will be cheaper and easy to make, however even the slowest speed moves a good amount of air around. Too much to be working directly in front of it for me, at least. It will blow all your papers off the table if placed high up. I would prefer a smaller unit personally. Easy enough to give it a try though. "_


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

That would be an exhaust fan which will "change" the existing air within the room. It will require opening an opposing window to allow more air to enter the room.
If you want to "filter" the within the room, you place a filter on the fan so it blows air through the filter, but that air stays inside the room.
No advantage in filtering the air that gets exhausted from the room.


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> That would be an exhaust fan which will "change" the existing air within the room. It will require opening an opposing window to allow more air to enter the room.
> If you want to "filter" the within the room, you place a filter on the fan so it blows air through the filter, but that air stays inside the room.
> No advantage in filtering the air that gets exhausted from the room.


gotcha, wnt, thanks


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## HoytC (Dec 30, 2019)

turntable said:


> dave,
> 
> 
> oooh less expensive -- one of my favorite things --
> ...


Yes...._but_, pay attention to window location and wind direction. You don't want it blowing back into the room.



> 2.a.) what about the air vents in the room? there's an in vent and an out vent -- anything i should do with those?
> 2.b.) what about running the ceiling fan? think that helps or hurts --


Always close at least the return vent when you're making dust. You want to keep the dust out of the rest of the house as much as possible.



> 3.) and_ "Actually, for a small room just adding a MERV 12 or higher filter to the box fan would do just as well."_
> so this captures the fine particles -- doesn't that prevent them from leaving the room? not sure how that works --


As woodnthings already said, that or another air cleaner is useful when you can't open the windows.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Disregard, double-posted on accident


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

The Wen air cleaner you linked doesnt require ducting, just power. That type of air scrubber is pretty much a fan pointed at a filter, itll circulate the air in the room through itself to pull out any fine wood dust, or any dust really, out of the air. Its a great final step in dust collection, but the first step is always catching as much dust at the point of generation as possible

Youre already on the right path by hooking your saw up to a shopvac, and you can safely ignore anybody who tells you that a shopvac doesnt pull enough air to effectively catch dust from a saw. I dont think that they realize that the saw you have is about the size of a large shoebox and could probably fit inside a shopvac... Anyways, keep the vacuum hooked up to whatever tool youre using to catch as much dust as possible, thatll get you most of the way there, and an air filter does the rest. If you want to save a bit of cash on an air cleaner, just get a box fan and duct tape a pleated air filter to the intake side of it, does the same job and runs about $30

Regarding your followup questions, close the return vent to the room youre creating dust in, otherwise that dust will be transferred everywhere else in your house. In theory the filter on the AC unit should catch the dust, in practice not so much. The ceiling fan you can keep on if youd like, but the air movement will keep fine particulates suspended a lot longer.

Inhaling fine particulate matter is hazardous to health, weve known this for decades now. Good on you for wanting to take care of your lungs


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

HoytC said:


> Yes...._but_, pay attention to window location and wind direction. You don't want it blowing back into the room.
> Always close at least the return vent when you're making dust. You want to keep the dust out of the rest of the house as much as possible.
> As woodnthings already said, that or another air cleaner is useful when you can't open the windows.


gotcha, dave, thanks!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

The over head air filtration units I have draw the air into the housing pulling it past two types of filters, a larger open mesh and a pleated filter. It does a good job of getting out most of the airborne particles, BUT remember they must be "airborne' for that unit to work. This is why if at all [possible, locate your dust suckers like shop vacs, on the dust ports built onto the tools! Rigid shop vacs are among the most quiet for the price which is important in a small room shop!
There are "dust extractors" by Festool which are also very quiet, but that come at a hefty price. Here's a useful study:








Quiet Shop Vacs, the Best & Quietest Shop Vacuums in 2022


Looking for best quiet shop vac for your workshop? Check out my top picks for 2022! In this article we are taking a look at noise levels of different units



bettersoundproofing.com


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

epicfail48 said:


> The Wen air cleaner you linked doesnt require ducting, just power. That type of air scrubber is pretty much a fan pointed at a filter, itll circulate the air in the room through itself to pull out any fine wood dust, or any dust really, out of the air. Its a great final step in dust collection, but the first step is always catching as much dust at the point of generation as possible
> 
> Youre already on the right path by hooking your saw up to a shopvac, and you can safely ignore anybody who tells you that a shopvac doesnt pull enough air to effectively catch dust from a saw. I dont think that they realize that the saw you have is about the size of a large shoebox and could probably fit inside a shopvac... Anyways, keep the vacuum hooked up to whatever tool youre using to catch as much dust as possible, thatll get you most of the way there, and an air filter does the rest. If you want to save a bit of cash on an air cleaner, just get a box fan and duct tape a pleated air filter to the intake side of it, does the same job and runs about $30
> 
> ...


epicfail48 -- yes you are correct -- the saw will actually fit in the shoe box with room to spare -- it is 7 x 9.5 x 4 inches -- i should have made that a point -- but what i'm hearing is that if i direct the ceiling fan to pull air up rather than push it down that would be a good thing -- 

thank you for helping me better understand the air flow deal here -- appreciate all of it --


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

woodnthings said:


> The over head air filtration units I have raw the air into the housing pulling it past two types of filters, a larger open mesh and a pleated filter. It does a good job of getting out most of the airborne particles, BUT remember they must be "airborne' for that unit to work. This is why if at all [possible, locate your dust suckers like shop vacs, on the dust ports built onto the tools! Rigid shop vacs are among the most quiet for the price which is important in a small room shop!
> There are "dust extractors" by Festool which are also very quiet, but that come at a hefty price. Here's a useful study:
> 
> 
> ...


 i think you read my mind -- i really want a quiet one! thank you, woodnthings


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

turntable said:


> i think you read my mind -- i really want a quiet one! thank you, woodnthings


Yes, quiet is important, especially in a small shop area. You could make an enclosure for your shop vac with sound proofing on the inside. It would need a port large enough to allow the same amount of air displaced by the suction. A zig-zag baffle in front of the port will help with the sound. Kinda like a ducted port bass speaker cabinet.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Car-Audio-Slot-Ported-Single-12-Subwoofer-Labyrinth-Bass-SPL-Vented-Sub-Box/383422173


That's what I would be doing if I were in your situation, make your woodworking experience as pleasant as possible!


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

that sounds very good, thank you, woodnthings


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

for the immediate future i'm going to keep sanding the outside of the cigar boxes outdoors away from people and houses -- but i'll do all the rest of the sanding inside the house -- i'm going to set up the wen air filtration unit on the shelves -- maybe put some cinder blocks under the 5 ft tall shelves to get them up higher -- we'll see --

then i'm gonna continue with the "rugsucker" -- thank you, epicfail48, great term -- the oreck vacuum -- it works! with all i've been doing, i emptied the bag and it's less than half full -- if i have the air filtration i should be good because i made a downdraft sanding 'table' -- which i had never heard of until this week --

View attachment 429825


in a previous life I was a wedding cake maker and that is germane because this is a flour bin on wheels of course fitted with a flour sifter squashed a little to make it into an oval — fits nice & snug -- i thought the screen would unravel but it held!

I cut out a hole in the screen to suspend the mouse sander upside down for rattle free sanding — i work sitting down mostly -- i taped a piece of heavy plastic around the silver sides of the sifter hanging down -- so the cord and hose can exit and enter underneath through the seam -- i clamped the excess shut -- and not in the picture but the sander has a little collection box too -- so i think i'm set on dust collection --

*many thanks to each of you!!!!*

p.s. I think i will get some acoustic foam just for the oreck and sander!


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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)




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## turntable (Jul 21, 2021)

sorry those pictures are gargantuan


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