# Using a plastic bag in a separator



## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Hey guys....so my delta 50-850 works fine, and I've resisted the idea of a pre-dust collector separator for a long time due to not wanting to have to shovel the can out. I like being able to take the bag off, put a new one on, and go. With the traditional separator the bag would be under suction, so it wouldn't work, but I got to thinking about how I could equalize the pressure to make the bag neutral. Any one tried running a small line off of the blower to the bottom of the can to equalize it? In theory of the pressure was the same on both sides of the bag there wouldn't be an issue using a bag....

Thoughts??


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## Marv (Nov 30, 2008)

The Oneida Ultimate Dust Deputy uses such a setup for a vacuum that I plan to incorporate into my new mobile cart however I wouldn't know if it would be the same in your situation.

http://www.oneida-air.com/pdf/ultimate-dust-deputy-owners-manual-2014-web.pdf

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE79B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

ryan50hrl said:


> Hey guys....so my delta 50-850 works fine, and I've resisted the idea of a pre-dust collector separator for a long time due to not wanting to have to shovel the can out. I like being able to take the bag off, put a new one on, and go. With the traditional separator the bag would be under suction, so it wouldn't work, but I got to thinking about how I could equalize the pressure to make the bag neutral. Any one tried running a small line off of the blower to the bottom of the can to equalize it? In theory of the pressure was the same on both sides of the bag there wouldn't be an issue using a bag....
> 
> Thoughts??


Let me know when you get it figured out. I would like to do the same thing. As it is, I empty the barrel by pouring the contents into a trash can with a plastic bag, then close up the bag and replace it with an empty one. It does get dusty and I always wear a mask. That is, when I remember to check the barrel. I can see the level in it, just procrastinate until I hear the chips carrying over into the DC! :smile:

It would really be easy if I could remove the bag from the barrel in one fell swoop. That would be cool.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm 95% done with my router table...I think this is going to be the next project.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

Ill be interested to see the results. Sounds like it should work... bag might block the counter suction hole, might use one of those car wash grit trays to hold the bottom of the bag up if it happens.

If it does work, Id adopt it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't know that it would matter if the bag sucked right to the bottom hose, as long as the suction wasn't so much it damaged the bag. I just need something to hold the bag down until it's full enough on its own.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

I started just carrying the barrel outside, and dumping it in the woods. I had a bag in my DD, and it didn't suck it up with no equalizer.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Ya...that's not an option for me.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Why not just glue a binder clip to the bottom of the bucket? Should hold the bag down enough so the chips can fall into it


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

One....then I'd have to half crawl into the bucket to clip it on....I'm planning on using a 32 gallon trash can. Two...Id be worried it would damage the bag leading to a hole when I removed the bag. And three....how do I unclip it when the bags full??


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

You could throw some gravel in the bottom. Nice smooth river rock wouldn't tear your bag.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I've thought about that, but I'd rather have a solution that didn't rely upon me having to dump rocks in every bag....maybe it'll get to that, but I think I'll try the hose first.


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## Paul_R (Nov 26, 2014)

The 2HP Laguna Cyclone had that setup. Look for the YouTube review, it shows it.


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## Paul_R (Nov 26, 2014)

Here it is

http:// https://youtu.be/iGLlE7KPyTo


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Paul_R said:


> Here it is
> 
> http:// https://youtu.be/iGLlE7KPyTo


Paul, the barrel is upstream of the fan so there is suction to deal with (or over come).
See pic below.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Just thinking out loud...I wish I had an unlimited supply of hard drive magnets. I could put a piece of metal in the bottom of the barrel, then chunk a magnet in the bag. That should hold it in place.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

What if you got a second can, the same one, and cut the bottom out of it. So it was just a cylinder. 

Put the bag into the normal can, and then put the second, bottomless can into the can sandwiching the bag between the two. 

When it's full just pull them apart and tie the bag closed.


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## hawkeye10 (Feb 18, 2015)

If you do wood working as a hobby and buy enough wood to make that much saw dust why not skip the seperator and buy new plastic bags for your dust collector? It would be so easy to take the full bag out tie it up and throw it away. 

Don

PS- I know I will hear about this. :laughing: :laughing:


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

hawkeye10 said:


> If you do wood working as a hobby and buy enough wood to make that much saw dust why not skip the seperator and buy new plastic bags for your dust collector? It would be so easy to take the full bag out tie it up and throw it away.
> 
> Don
> 
> PS- I know I will hear about this. :laughing: :laughing:


Personally, I hate having to wrestle that bag around the DC, get it in place just right and then tighten the band. It is a pain for me.

When I was building our kitchen cabinets, I emptied the barrel four times in one day. We had the planer running full speed. Over 180 lineal feet of lumber.

Also, there is no way, screws or nails or whatever will ever be sucked into the fan impeller. :thumbsup:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I've thought of that....but it's still going to dump a bunch of dust from the static cling to the inside one all over the floor...I'm going for easiest to change...


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

To keep the bag in place while putting it on, I use a few magnets.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

ryan50hrl said:


> To keep the bag in place while putting it on, I use a few magnets.
> View attachment 148265


Thanks.
I need to do that. Don't know why I haven't thought about it before. And I even have a few small ones. :yes:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I need to use some that are a bit stronger, but these were laying around.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I think I have found a solution to the problem! 
I will report back with my findings next time I empty my drum.

The one drawback is I won't be able to see the level with a dark green trash back in the barrel. :no:

Here is a pic of my proposed solution.
Place a piece of metal in the bottom of the drum.
Attach a magnet to the metal
Place empty bag in the drum.
Toss in a piece of metal. I will magically find the magnet. :yes::laughing:

It just so happens I have a good supply of metal discs used to fasten tar paper to the roof. I have had the extras since I built my storage shed in 2002. They came in a 5# box, so I have several hundred that have been waiting patiently for me to use them. :thumbsup:

I guess we will see what we will see.
Mike


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I've thought of a few solutions similar to that, but I still want a solution with no foreign objects in the bag. My other thought was to keep a bucket of sand in the shop and just dump a shovel full in the bag first....but I'm not ready to give up on a non weighted bag solution yet.


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

ok. I have a solution...

So the bucket is under negative pressure. and the issue is that when you turn the system on, air is being drawn "under" the bag from the outside due to an imperfect seal between the bag and the vessel lip.

Some people may have a vessel that produces an air tight seal, which is why some are able to do this with no special attention. Lucky them.

So, the simple solution... put the bag IN the vessel. 

Imagine if you used a paper grocery bag that stands up on its own. Just sit it in the vessel and it will not collapse (though it would get blown around lol).

How to do this? I can think of a few ways, but Im sure you can too, any way for you to secure the bag in the bucket, maybe a retention ring around the inside rim, like this. you could make one out of wood, or plastic or metal, you just need something to hold the bag up from inside the can. 










I know there is a "foreign object in the bag" but this object stays at the top of the bag, not buried, not discarded.


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## Trav (May 30, 2011)

If I understand yall are trying to keep an empty plastic bag pulled down in the separator canister. 
My canister has bags and they work great. There is a small suction hose that comes off the vac and attaches to the bottom of the barrel. There are small stand offs in the bottom of the barrel that allow the vac to pull down the bag evenly.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Ttharp said:


> If I understand yall are trying to keep an empty plastic bag pulled down in the separator canister.
> My canister has bags and they work great. There is a small suction hose that comes off the vac and attaches to the bottom of the barrel. There are small stand offs in the bottom of the barrel that allow the vac to pull down the bag evenly.



That's exactly my current plan. Now I just need to build a separator and reconfigure the cart area.


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## TMA Woodworks (Apr 23, 2010)

How about this. Take some aluminum fencing. The 1/4 hole size. Cut the width the same height as your container. Now make a cylinder slightly smaller that the diameter of your container. You can either weave a piece of wire through the holes to hold it or use small nuts and bolts. Now put you garbage bag in the container and the cylinder made out of the fencing in the garbage bag. This will keep you bag from getting sucked up and when you empty you just pull the cylinder out and then the bag. Never had any problems with this. I use the same idea but use a heavy cardboard tube made out of an old cardboard barrel.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Woodworkers depot in Green Bay has one premade like this...just seems it could still be a bit of a mess to get it out.


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

I would think the bag would be so heavy the plastic could tear unless contractor bags are used. Also if the can is not tapered a little smaller at the bottom the bag would be wedged in pretty tight and be hard to remove unless you can lay the can on it's side and roll it a bit to dislodge it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I use contractor bags now, and am planning on using the new Rubbermaid brute cans with the air flow Channel. Also if I run a hose to the bottom to equalize pressure, that should eliminate the auction on removal of the bag as well....at least in theory.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

BigJoe16 said:


> What if you got a second can, the same one, and cut the bottom out of it. So it was just a cylinder.
> 
> Put the bag into the normal can, and then put the second, bottomless can into the can sandwiching the bag between the two.
> 
> When it's full just pull them apart and tie the bag closed.


Sounds like a pretty good idea. You could leave the bail on the inner bucket with no bottom to pull from the outer can. 
The trick is to find two buckets that will nest together.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I am sitting here nursing a nagging cough that the doc says is the early stage of pneumonia. I am grounded from making sawdust for a few days. :yes:

It seems every time I empty my drum or the dust collector bag, dust goes every where. That is why I am seriously thinking about attaching some magnets to the inside bottom of the barrel and just throw something metal in the bag when I change. it. Hopefully, all I will have to do is close up the bag and pull it out. That would be great.

I like the ideas y'all have come up with also.

For that matter, I always have some scrap wood cutoffs I could simply chunk in the bag before I close the lid and seal it. 

Actually, I don't think the bag could choke off the exit since my separator is inside the drum and blocked by the lower part of it. Maybe it could. I will have to do some testing to find out.


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