# Selling rare tools.



## strippedscrew (Oct 28, 2012)

I got into tool collecting but managed to come to my senses. Had a friend who is 33 years older than I , (same birthday, different year,) who had a huge collection of rare tools. At 95 he had to dump them and go into a care home. Dementia, after 35 years he can't even remember me. Hurts.

Have you ever come across a gem by accident and made a profit?

I found a Stanley #1 about 6 years ago for $10. Thing was as new. Sold it 2 hours later for $1,200. Could have go $1,800 plus but he was a good friend of mine. Now he has 5 of them.

Found a Stanley #212 for $5. Sold 20 minutes later for $500. Worth $1,800. Owner wouldn't part for it for less than $3,000. Again, to a good friend.

Skil 100. Still got it. Thinking of putting it on a California CL

Got a bad habit of heading to Lee Valley after a score and drooling all over everything then buying some stuff.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

i buy and sell tools as well. not so much rare stuff but i tend to get old worn planes and fix them up. what i don't keep i sell (if i kept every tool i've bought in the past 2 years...). they come in box lots or in bulk purchases. when i have time, i really enjoy taking an old rusty and ugly plane and making it serviceable. it's a rewarding process. 

but be careful in this section...

there are some who really frown on people who sell their planes for anything more than what they paid for it, sometimes less. they accuse us of driving prices up. if you ask anything about a particular plane, if they think you're intention is to re-sell, will give you crap instead of helping id it.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

tisk tisk... I though we moved past that, Gideon...?

I didn't give you crap... I only pointed out that it's tacky and inconsiderate to ask others to give up THEIR time to increase YOUR profit margin. If you do your own research you'll learn along the way and earn your profits as well as be valuable in helping others. 

I'd definitely make an exception to that for bizarre or rare oddities - but not vanilla dime-a-dozen tools.

So if your ready to move on from that, that's fine by me -

============

Strippedscrew, you aren't by any chance camaroman*** something or other on eBay and a former member here by the name of johnray, are ya? Just curious!

That's some pretty impressive finds.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

You bought a plane for $10 and sold it to a good friend for $1200? I never got into collecting things with the aim of selling them, mostly just beer glasses now and cards and such when I was younger, but that is more just hoarding. It must be a subculture with an interesting ruleset if that sort of markup is being good among friends! I guess if he sells it down the line there's no hard feelings like if it was a gift.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

strippedscrew said:


> Have you ever come across a gem by accident and made a profit?
> 
> I found a Stanley #1 about 6 years ago for $10. Thing was as new. Sold it 2 hours later for $1,200. Could have go $1,800 plus but he was a good friend of mine. Now he has 5 of them.
> 
> Found a Stanley #212 for $5. Sold 20 minutes later for $500. Worth $1,800. Owner wouldn't part for it for less than $3,000. Again, to a good friend.


All I can say is I'm glad I'm not your friend. A true friend in my opinion would not make that large of a profit off of another friend. Especially when you use the term a good friend. 

Now if you had actually done substantial work restoring it then some profit for your time is understandable. However, to just buy and sell for huge profit is not right.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

firemedic said:


> tisk tisk... I though we moved past that, Gideon...?
> 
> I didn't give you crap... I only pointed out that it's tacky and inconsiderate to ask others to give up THEIR time to increase YOUR profit margin. If you do your own research you'll learn along the way and earn your profits as well as be valuable in helping others.
> 
> ...


yet you'll help someone in the classifieds section id and post photos of his planes for sale? a bit inconsistent on this hard and fast rule you've got.

all that said, yeah, i can move on.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

rrbrown said:


> All I can say is I'm glad I'm not your friend. A true friend in my opinion would not make that large of a profit off of another friend. Especially when you use the term a good friend.
> 
> Now if you had actually done substantial work restoring it then some profit for your time is understandable. However, to just buy and sell for huge profit is not right.



Collecting and collectors are an interesting sub-culture of society. This is not uncommon.

One example I can use to illustrate something like this is if I were to find a Van Goch on the trash would I be obligated to sell it for a dollar? Would you?

I have been in situations where good friends have wanted to buy something I found, picked, etc. And, I have said, I would love to come down on price but I really can't based on what I have in it (time, labor).

I have friends who have bought pieces I've built at full price understanding that it's what I do.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

gideon said:


> Collecting and collectors are an interesting sub-culture of society. This is not uncommon.
> 
> One example I can use to illustrate something like this is if I were to find a Van Goch on the trash would I be obligated to sell it for a dollar? Would you?
> 
> ...


A Van Goch is much more then a couple thousand so it really doesn't compare. Lets say I found or bought the #1 Stanley mentioned. I could keep it knowing I would probably never use it. I could sell it but if it was to a friend it would probably be for either what I paid or very little profit. Hell I only know one person that uses them regularly and if he needed or really wanted it then I would probably just give it to him. Because I would feel better then selling it. Sure he could turn around and sell it for a profit but I trust my friends to be more considerate then that. Just like in a marriage, in a friendship you get out of it what you put into it.

Now if you make your living doing this stuff then sure friends would be buying it also. However same argument goes for finding and selling with no work involved. He paid $10 if I knew a friend collected them and wanted it. I would sell it for a few dollars profit maybe but let's be real selling it for $120 times what he paid was to much profit for a good friend and no work involved.

Don't get me wrong I have family that I will charge almost full price because that's the kind of people they are. You can pick your friends but not family.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

strippedscrew said:


> Have you ever come across a gem by accident and made a profit?
> 
> I found a Stanley #1 about 6 years ago for $10. Thing was as new. Sold it 2 hours later for $1,200. Could have go $1,800 plus but he was a good friend of mine. Now he has 5 of them.
> 
> Found a Stanley #212 for $5. Sold 20 minutes later for $500. Worth $1,800. Owner wouldn't part for it for less than $3,000. Again, to a good friend.


Do these friends know the profit margin and the quick turn around time?


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

rrbrown said:


> Do these friends know the profit margin and the quick turn around time?


at times yes. but they are collectors.  price is part of the bragging rights. the cost may not matter, the profit margin may not matter - acquiring what they want is all that matters. 

i have been in some of those circles in other areas of collectibles. often times, i would post a photograph of something in my personal stash of things. an email comes in "what are you willing to sell that for?" "not really interested in selling, was just sharing photos and info of something I have." "Would you be willing to take $***x for it?"...

I recently sold something for four figures because it was that good of an offer and that money would be used for a few other things I'm doing right now. 

In another aspect of this, what somebody pays for something is really not relevant to what it could or should sell for. Sharing what you pay for something is a slippery slope because it leads to judgments about the person. On the other side, again, people assuming they should receive huge price breaks on things of value when they can absolutely afford to pay a higher price for it smacks of entitlement. A gift or favor that way is at the discretion of the person with the goods.

I have sold a great many things I've bought for under $20 for many times that amount. 

I build nice things with wood and I charge a combination of materials, labor and how attractive it is. What makes a fine piece of furniture worth $30,000 when the materials and labor might have run $6,000 +/-? My pricing, should I charge $1200 for a table that takes me 5 hours to make and costs $200 in materials?

An edge grain cutting board with $10 materials and about 60 to 90 minutes of labor, should I charge $50? Am I price gouging charging $75?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

gideon said:


> at times yes. but they are collectors. price is part of the bragging rights. the cost may not matter, the profit margin may not matter - acquiring what they want is all that matters.
> 
> i have been in some of those circles in other areas of collectibles. often times, i would post a photograph of something in my personal stash of things. an email comes in "what are you willing to sell that for?" "not really interested in selling, was just sharing photos and info of something I have." "Would you be willing to take $***x for it?"...
> 
> ...


Your confusing the facts with totally different circumstances. He stated almost as bragging that he paid $10 for a item and sold it for $1200 two hours later as is to a good friend. That is a lot different then making and or working on something. Maybe his friends are like the ones they have on Pawn Stars, which are really just business associates. That's not a friendship in my opinion.

Your circles of collectors may just be different then what I consider good friends. I don't lie to, hide facts from or take advantage of my friends. Especially a good friend. 

I'm a simple man, I won't do anything that prevents me from sleeping at night. I treat others as I expect to be treated. Friendships are like gold to me worth more then money. I'll stop and help a stranger just because it makes both of us feel good. 

Life is about what kind of person you are, not how much money you have or how much you pay for things. 


Well I'm done on this thread before it gets out of hand.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

rrbrown said:


> Your confusing the facts with totally different circumstances. He stated almost as bragging that he paid $10 for a item and sold it for $1200 two hours later as is to a good friend. That is a lot different then making and or working on something. Maybe his friends are like the ones they have on Pawn Stars, which are really just business associates. That's not a friendship in my opinion.
> 
> Your circles of collectors may just be different then what I consider good friends. I don't lie to, hide facts from or take advantage of my friends. Especially a good friend.
> 
> ...


but this is a judgement of another. so what that i made something or that the op found something. if you boil it down to the barest of facts, an item for sale is priced at what its priced at. 

in circles of collectors i've been involved with, there is dinner at a nice place, watching sports, spending time with each others families, talking about life events and there is are high priced items changing hands. the money circulates among them - what goes to one eventually lands with another and so on.

what makes you a simple man and another not? a difference in what way?

i have told friends who really wanted something that i would prefer not to sell them something because of what it will sell for, that based on a market value, I have to charge a certain price for it.

I had a coffee table here made by an early apprentice of George Nakashima. I bought it for about $350. I did a lot of research about if and how to refinish it, I went to the Nakashima workshops, spoke with the foreman who verified that the maker did work there and told me what he would have used as a finish. 

I refinished that table and sold it for more than 12 x what I paid for it. I had a friend interested in it but she wouldn't have been able to pay the price I realized. She may have been able to afford 3 x what I paid. Did I do the wrong thing? If not why? If yes, why?


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## Roger Newby (May 26, 2009)

Dontcha just love peein' contests???? Also......then should be than.......just sayin'. :laughing: Also wonder if ol' johnray was back.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Roger Newby said:


> Dontcha just love peein' contests???? Also......then should be than.......just sayin'. :laughing: Also wonder if ol' johnray was back.


No Johnray is not back that I can tell. However something is not right with this whole thing for sure. 

It's only a peein' contest if you talking about the same thing. As I said I'm not continuing with it.


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## ACP (Jan 24, 2009)

Stanley #1...Stanley 212....SKIL 100? 

One of these things is not like the other thing.....not like the other thing.....not like the other thing.....

I love Veritas too. And the only thing I'll say regarding the sales, $500 for a 212 ain't bad at all.


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## gideon (May 26, 2010)

to all, if i came off as too aggressive that was not my intent.

I was trying to explain the world of collecting as opposed to actually using. I have a foot in both. I buy old tools, fix them for service and sell what I don't keep. If I can make a good honest buck on them, great, if not, great - somebody gets something they can use out of the box. 

While there are some real differences here, like I don't believe the OP uses these tools at all and is strictly in it for the bragging right for having scored a rare piece, I do think there are some similarities to a number of aspects of actually making something and selling it. 

So, with that, I wish the OP luck in his endeavors with collecting and will no longer post in this thread as well.


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

I kind of agree with RRBrown, something just does not sound right. If you found something was worth so much I would think you may return the the original seller and offer additional funds. I can understand if someone gets a great deal and keeps it as a collector or whatever, but to make such a large profit doing nothing, it just does not feel right.

Building a piece is totally a different issue. You price based on material cost and time expended. Quite frankly, I have seen some things that should be burnt and not sold. I am basing this on the asking price and quality of workmanship. Then there are the others that under-price their work. 

I also want to be treated decently.


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

Around 9 years age an old widow women was cleaning out her house and found her husband's per-war Gibson 17 fret banjo in original condition. She chose to sell it on eBay for around $150, hoping to help out with some of the bills. It was going well and she was going to get a few hundred for it; however, some kind individual told her what it was worth and that she should take nothing less that a couple thousand. She pulled it off eBay and re-listed it with a startling price of $1,000. It drew a lot of interest. I was one but I didn't have the ending cash. The ending price was just over $50,000. 

It was a kind person that told the old lady what it was worth. She had no idea. As buyers, if an item is being sold for a lot less than what we know it is worth, we should volunteer more for the item, letting the owner that they are not asking enough. There can still be profit without taking advantage of others.

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## schnitz (Sep 5, 2009)

vursenbach said:


> As buyers, if an item is being sold for a lot less than what we know it is worth, we should volunteer more for the item, letting the owner that they are not asking enough. There can still be profit without taking advantage of others.


I agree wholeheartedly. I know I've made mention of a buddy of mine who collects/restores hand planes. I went to a family estate sale, and bought a Stanley #6 with a corrugated bottom as part of a 3 piece lot of old tools, for $5.00. While this plane had belonged to my great grandfather, I knew Clark would do more with it than I could, so I asked him if he'd give me $5 for it. He said sure. Later on, he flat out gave me my mini-lathe, and 5 vintage Craftsman lathe tools, plus the sharpening kit for them. I also scored my second miter saw (Delta Shopmaster) for $20-- exactly what he'd paid a week or two earlier. H says he still owes me a bit more. Truth be told, I really don't care. I like and use what I have now, and he enjoys what he has too. Too me, that's the best "profit" of all!


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## Rwelch (Mar 11, 2012)

Fastback said:


> I kind of agree with RRBrown, something just does not sound right. If you found something was worth so much I would think you may return the the original seller and offer additional funds. I can understand if someone gets a great deal and keeps it as a collector or whatever, but to make such a large profit doing nothing, it just does not feel right.
> 
> Building a piece is totally a different issue. You price based on material cost and time expended. Quite frankly, I have seen some things that should be burnt and not sold. I am basing this on the asking price and quality of workmanship. Then there are the others that under-price their work.
> 
> I also want to be treated decently.


Ahh come on guys. This country was built on capitalism. You made a buck good for you. If I Found a #1 for that price I wold scoop it up. Wold I sell it? Probably no, but is it a crime to make a buck? Also, a no


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## schnitz (Sep 5, 2009)

Rwelch said:


> Ahh come on guys. This country was built on capitalism. You made a buck good for you. If I Found a #1 for that price I wold scoop it up. Wold I sell it? Probably no, but is it a crime to make a buck? Also, a no


Making a buck is one thing. Making $1190 off a "good friend" is outrageous. If I had too many "good friends" like that, I'd have an an a$$ that looked like an expressway.


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## lateralus819 (Jul 22, 2012)

Sounds like you guys are upset he made so much profit and you didn't or something. 

How can you be upset at him, if his buddy was willing to fork out that much cash then so be it. Seems a lot of collectors will stop at nothing to get a desired piece.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

I would just add that if it's a buyer's responsibility to make the seller aware of the real value (which I can see in some cases but not others) then in the case of the #1 wouldn't the friend buying it have a responsibility too? If the friend knows strippedscrew can make $1800 selling it but asks to buy it himself how could he in good conscience buy it for say $20 ($10 gas money?) The "finders fee" on a #1 has got to be greater value than on a #5 "in good condition" for example.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Shop Dad said:


> I would just add that if it's a buyer's responsibility to make the seller aware of the real value (which I can see in some cases but not others) then in the case of the #1 wouldn't the friend buying it have a responsibility too? If the friend knows strippedscrew can make $1800 selling it but asks to buy it himself how could he in good conscience buy it for say $20 ($10 gas money?) The "finders fee" on a #1 has got to be greater value than on a #5 "in good condition" for example.


Alright enough with beating up on him. There seems to be a laid point made by Shop Dad and it was mentioned earlier about a weird collectors thing that we may not get. I guess I'm guilty for the first or one of the first stones thrown here. For that I'll apologize because I didn't expect it to get like this. I think it got worse with Gideon's examples that didn't fit but that to has been addressed.

I still don't get it and probably never will but if that's how you guys in the collectors market roll. Then roll on because its not for me.:thumbsup:


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

You know, this is America where one of the things we are free to do is buy stuff sell that stuff to someone else for more money. That's capitalism, that's America, that's what we all do. I am also comfortable with the notion that if you have something that someone else wants badly enough, the person who wants it will pay big bucks and go away happy. Markup and profit are not bad words: this is America, not Red Russia.

But I don't pay much attention to people who brag about the big score. Back in High School there were guys who bragged about the girls they had shagged, while the guys who were really getting lucky just smiled and went on about their business. In my experience, people who brag about "the big score" don't have a lot of class and most of them are telling fish stories anyway. Of course, the liars almost always get mad when you call them out, which is why I intend to state my opinion and then bail on this sorry thread.


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## vursenbach (Apr 11, 2012)

J. P. Morgan and Standard Oil

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