# Garbage can cyclone question



## Larryh86GT (Feb 13, 2013)

I've seen some of these garbage can separators made with both the inlet and outlet in the lid were each made with elbows on the sides of the lid and some I've seen that the inlet was an elbow on the side and the outlet pipe was a straight piece in the center of the lid. Does anyone have any insight on which is better or doesn't it matter much? Both will work?


----------



## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Both will work about the same if the inside baffle is the same on both. There called Thien Separators.

If your talking about just the store made lids they will not work even close to the home made one's in most cases.


----------



## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

her is phil thien's site:

http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm

i kind of agree with RRBROWN, but will offer that i have seen commercially available lids retrofitted with thien baffles and it reportedly increases their efficiency of the dust and particle separation. many WWs don't bother with the commercial units as it's not terribly difficult to fabricate a separator from shop scrap.

also, if the primary dust collector is a single stage unit, like a delta 50-850, the baffle can be incorporated into the unit's drum ring to save space. i added a proxy for the thien baffle (i used a frying pan) which mimicked jet's vortex:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40189

hope this helps.


----------



## RogerInColorado (Jan 16, 2013)

I have just the 30 gallon can with the Woodcraft separator. Before the separator I had to empty the bag at least once a month. I put the separator in about 2 years ago. I have to empty the can about once a month when I use the collector every day. I have had to empty the bag once since I added the can separator. I have the Grizzly 1HP. I use the collector for my table saw, planer, band saw and drum sander. I move the hose tool to tool.


----------



## mobilepaul (Nov 8, 2012)

Larryh86GT said:


> I've seen some of these garbage can separators made with both the inlet and outlet in the lid were each made with elbows on the sides of the lid and some I've seen that the inlet was an elbow on the side and the outlet pipe was a straight piece in the center of the lid. Does anyone have any insight on which is better or doesn't it matter much? Both will work?


Phil Thien told me that if you use 6" for the outlet, you have to do the side mounted outlet...

You can go to Phil's site and pose any questions you are pondering. You will get an answer.

Paul


----------



## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

mobilepaul said:


> Phil Thien told me that if you use 6" for the outlet, you have to do the side mounted outlet...
> 
> You can go to Phil's site and pose any questions you are pondering. You will get an answer.
> 
> Paul


Well I have 6" inlet and outlet both top mounted. I went with a 55 gal drum for the depth the width is the same as the trash can but they fit.

I disagree with some of Phil's statements because he basically says anything less then 5 hp is to small for a cyclone.


----------



## Larryh86GT (Feb 13, 2013)

Thanks for the replies folks. I don't have room to store a proper DC so I am just trying to make a ******* separator out of a plastic 30 gallon garbage can to use with a shop vac to capture the chips when I use my little 10" Ryobi surface planer.


----------



## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

RogerInColorado said:


> I have just the 30 gallon can with the Woodcraft separator. Before the separator I had to empty the bag at least once a month. I put the separator in about 2 years ago. I have to empty the can about once a month when I use the collector every day. I have had to empty the bag once since I added the can separator. I have the Grizzly 1HP. I use the collector for my table saw, planer, band saw and drum sander. I move the hose tool to tool.


EXACTLY! 

I have the Jet DC (I think that it is the 1-1/2 HP but I run it on 230 Volts.) I empty the bottom bag of the DC about every 6 months only because much more than 1 foot of wood flour gets heavy. The trash can is emptied about once a month.

The Woodcraft trash can lid thing was improved with an elbow to create a swirl inside the trash can. I even have a kludge so that I can use a 33 gallon trash bag inside the trash can. All the large stuff gets trapped in the can. All the flour goes to the DC bag. 

In terms of a "PERFECT" large particle separation dust collection system, this system rates at least a 90 out of 100. Until I can find someone that wants to buy the "flour", I see no need to separate any better.


BTW - The DC bags are Penn State Industries 1 micron bags. This gives great air flow.


----------



## RogerInColorado (Jan 16, 2013)

rrich said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> I even have a kludge so that I can use a 33 gallon trash bag inside the trash can. All the large stuff gets trapped in the can. All the flour goes to the DC bag.
> 
> .


 
Rich, what's the kluge that you use so you can use a plastic bag inside the trash can?


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*kluge?*



RogerInColorado said:


> Rich, what's the kluge that you use so you can use a plastic bag inside the trash can?


Whachutalkin' 'bout Willis? 


A *kludge* (or *kluge*) is a workaround, a quick-and-dirty solution, a clumsy, inelegant, difficult to extend, hard to maintain yet effective and quick solution to a problem, and a rough synonym to the terms "jury rig", "Jugaad" or "jerry rig". This term is used in diverse fields such as computer science, aerospace engineering, internet slang, and evolutionary neuroscience.


----------



## Jim Moe (Sep 18, 2011)

RogerInColorado said:


> I have just the 30 gallon can with the Woodcraft separator. Before the separator I had to empty the bag at least once a month. I put the separator in about 2 years ago. I have to empty the can about once a month when I use the collector every day. I have had to empty the bag once since I added the can separator. I have the Grizzly 1HP. I use the collector for my table saw, planer, band saw and drum sander. I move the hose tool to tool.


I have the same set up with a Rockler dust collector and never have to empty the bag because I vented it outside. Have to empty can mostly when using joiner or planer.


----------



## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

So anyone got pictures of how they've setup their pre-seperator to use bags? I don't want to have to try and dump a 55gallon can of wood chips every time it fills up. I want to be able to just tie off the bag and go.


----------



## Larryh86GT (Feb 13, 2013)

So I guess just go with 2 elbows on the lid and hope for the best. The chips will fall where they fall. I'm kind of where I started.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> So anyone got pictures of how they've setup their pre-seperator to use bags? I don't want to have to try and dump a 55gallon can of wood chips every time it fills up. I want to be able to just tie off the bag and go.


A pre-separator is under suction.

Trying to use a bag will result in the bag being pulled into the outlet connection. :thumbdown:


----------



## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Dave Paine said:


> A pre-separator is under suction.
> 
> Trying to use a bag will result in the bag being pulled into the outlet connection. :thumbdown:


Not true, if done correctly.

I'll start a new thread.


----------



## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> A pre-separator is under suction.
> 
> Trying to use a bag will result in the bag being pulled into the outlet connection. :thumbdown:


My initial assumption, until I saw the earlier post.


----------



## kmwhalley (Dec 22, 2011)

Is it necessary to have a metal garbage can??? Or will a plastic one work just fine??


----------



## commodore (Jan 14, 2013)

Well I had hoped to answer your question with a youtube video of a guy's collector imploding where he used a cheap plastic can, but I can't find it this morning. I have seen plenty of others using plastic barrels and cans. My guess is don't be cheap and buy one that will work as a trash can for your shop if all else fails.

Dave


----------



## commodore (Jan 14, 2013)

OK this is not the video I wanted but you get the point 






and again


----------



## Larryh86GT (Feb 13, 2013)

So it seems to be doable with a plastic garbage can. And if I use rrich's can liner idea http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/trash-can-separator-plastic-garbage-bag-48965/ it should give the can more resistence to collapsing. I will give it a try when it warms up a little here.


----------

