# Building a fermentation chamber.



## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Hello all, I'm big into home brewing and wanted/needed to build a fermentation chamber for better temp control here in S Florida. I gutted a mini fridge I had that had a broken door and took out the refrigeration unit to be used in the chamber. At first I was going to make this a top load with a freezer type lid but after I started the build I decided I want front load with doors.

Now I'm no Bob the Builder so I'm sure you will all see problems with my design and build. This is all going together with material I acquired from friends/work. I'm trying to do this on a budget (I'm broke) so I don't have the money for the stuff I would rather have so I must make do with what I have.

For those of you who don't know what a Fermentation Chamber is, its like a fridge but with a much wider range of temp control. 

My biggest problem right now is the doors. I need them to seal tight so no air leaks in/out.

What I'm hoping to get from all of you is help with the design of the doors.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Here are some pics of the build so far.


















































Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

In these pics you can see what will be going inside of the chamber and the size relationship of the stuff to the chamber itself.


















Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

In these pics you can see that I put a bottom on the chamber, wheels, mounted the compressor and condenser.


















































Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

OK, now that you have seen what I've done so far I'll explain what I still need to do and what I need help with.

Next I need to attach the exterior walls with 3/4" plywood then seal all the internal seams, install the insulation which will be two layers of R-Matte Plus 3 R-5 for a total insulation value of R-10.

Then I will cover all the insulation with plastic sheathing. Oh I also need to run the wiring for the temp controller and fans. This will be done before the insulation is put in.

As for putting plywood on the front where the doors go, Im not sure yet as what I'm going to do. 

Inside the chamber the insulation will fit inside the 1 1/2 inch space inside the frame walls. That being said the floor will be 3/4" higher then the bottom frame.

You can see that the soda keg is almost as big as the opening already so I dont want to make the opening much smaller if I dont have to.

So my main question is this. How should I design/attach the doors so they are square and seal good.

Dan
http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> OK, now that you have seen what I've done so far I'll explain what I still need to do and what I need help with.
> 
> Next I need to attach the exterior walls with 3/4" plywood then seal all the internal seams, install the insulation which will be two layers of R-Matte Plus 3 R-5 for a total insulation value of R-10.
> 
> ...


Can I make a quick suggestion regarding insulation? Have you considered spray foam insualtion? You will get a much better vapor/air and moisture seal, and depending on how thick you go with it, a much better R-value. It won't break down or matte over time like fiberglass batting will and it will add a little bit of ridgitity for you in terms of structure. You will basically have a foam cooler effect. I would look at closed cell spray foam as an option. I know you said budget is a bit tight but you can get small kits fairly inexpensively and it's very easy to apply.

Just a thought


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

I've used two part foam before in my High Power Rocketry hobby but never used it as insulation. Do you need a special sprayer for this?

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> I've used two part foam before in my High Power Rocketry hobby but never used it as insulation. Do you need a special sprayer for this?
> 
> Dan


Hey Dan,

Nope. Nothing special needed. Everything you need comes with the kit. There are a number of suppliers out there but I have had good luck with one in particular. Here is a link to their smallest kit

https://www.sprayfoamdirect.com/pro...facturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,1/

I have used their larger kits before to spray a house and it makes a huge difference. Their site gives a lot of good information.

BTW...I have no vested interest in this company. I simply have had very good results with them.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

For your doors you could use a foam core door that you can get at any big box. You'll just need to modify them to fit your sizing needs. Then some good old weather stripping to eliminate any drafts or airflow.

You could always make a foam core door by sandwiching some ridgid foam insualtion between a couple of peices of plywood and enclosing the edges.


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Tom5151 said:


> Hey Dan,
> 
> Nope. Nothing special needed. Everything you need comes with the kit. There are a number of suppliers out there but I have had good luck with one in particular. Here is a link to their smallest kit
> 
> ...



With the 1.5 inches I have to work with the spray foam will give me a R value of 10.05.

After I spray it in the areas I want it how do i cut it down flat so I can put the plastic sheathing on it.

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> With the 1.5 inches I have to work with the spray foam will give me a R value of 10.05.
> 
> After I spray it in the areas I want it how do i cut it down flat so I can put the plastic sheathing on it.
> 
> Dan


You won't need plastic sheating with the foam. It's acts as its own vapor barrier. If you end up with high spots you can shave them off with a hand saw or scrape them down flat. I even used a bread knife in some spots. It's very easy to tool this stuff once its dry


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Tom5151 said:


> For your doors you could use a foam core door that you can get at any big box. You'll just need to modify them to fit your sizing needs. Then some good old weather stripping to eliminate any drafts or airflow.
> 
> You could always make a foam core door by sandwiching some ridgid foam insualtion between a couple of peices of plywood and enclosing the edges.



What I WAS thinking is this. Put a piece of plywood over the front with the holes cut out for the doors. Then get to more pieces of plywood bigger then the holes so you have overlap and in the inside of the door place the insulating sheathing so when you close the door it goes in the hole to the same depth as the rest of the insulation. 

Will the foam core doors have an R rating?

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> What I WAS thinking is this. Put a piece of plywood over the front with the holes cut out for the doors. Then get to more pieces of plywood bigger then the holes so you have overlap and in the inside of the door place the insulating sheathing so when you close the door it goes in the hole to the same depth as the rest of the insulation.
> 
> Will the foam core doors have an R rating?
> 
> Dan


You can certainly try it the way you were planning and see what you think. 

The foam core doors do have an R-value. It just depends on the thickness of the door and the foam in the door. What I have also done in the past when using a foam core and needing more R-value, is to build a 2X4 picture frame on the inisde surface of the door and then put a sheet of properly sized ridgid foam inside that frame.


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Are you talking door like a bedroom door or something? I would have to cut it down to size then it would have exposed foam on the cut sides. Then I would have to cover the cut sides with something.

Am I correct in this thinking?

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> Are you talking door like a bedroom door or something? I would have to cut it down to size then it would have exposed foam on the cut sides. Then I would have to cover the cut sides with something.
> 
> Am I correct in this thinking?
> 
> Dan


Yes you are correct......It is simply a flat door with foam in the middle. Depending on the size of your doors you might be able to get both of them out of one door.......I would check the big boxes in your area to see what they have....

btw...i am home brewer myself...i am not very good at it but I have a lot of fun with it.....have a coffee stout just about ready to bottle.....:thumbsup:


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Very cool. Do you have a ferm chamber or do you use something else?

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> Very cool. Do you have a ferm chamber or do you use something else?
> 
> Dan


I don't have a ferm chamber at this point.

I just primary and secondary in the house. I can control the temp pretty good in one of the rooms i have.


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Extract, partial mash or all grain?

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> Extract, partial mash or all grain?
> 
> Dan


LOL...I am a total newb.....all extract so far:yes:


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

We are making the jump from extract to partial mash / all grain after we get the chamber up and running. There are some good forums out there for home brewing. Temp control is very important, that's why we are making this chamber. 

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> We are making the jump from extract to partial mash / all grain after we get the chamber up and running. There are some good forums out there for home brewing. Temp control is very important, that's why we are making this chamber.
> 
> Dan


got it...well what you have started there looks like it will serve you well..


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

I hope so, Its just the doors worry me. Ill hit the DIY store after work and check out the doors. If I do go with a cut down door, what type of hinges should I use?

Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> I hope so, Its just the doors worry me. Ill hit the DIY store after work and check out the doors. If I do go with a cut down door, what type of hinges should I use?
> 
> Dan


Ya got me there. I probably won't be of much help in terms of suggesting hinges. But i am sure there are lots of guys out here who can......


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

All I got done last night was paint the inside and out.


















Dan


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Brewman said:


> All I got done last night was paint the inside and out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lookin real good so far...thats gonna be real nice when done


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Tom5151 said:


> lookin real good so far...thats gonna be real nice when done


Thanks, The paint is only for moisture control and vapor barrier. It will be covered with wood and stained a nice oak color.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

SCORE , I'm home this weekend and was cleaning out the shed this morning when I found a roll of this and two kits of gray epoxy paint. Its the type where you have to mix the hardener with the paint. I've used this stuff before for my john boat. If you mix it up and don't use it, the next day it will be a solid piece of gray rubber. I plan on putting a few coats on everything and then putting the reflectix insulation on the back to protect the wood from the heat of the condenser.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm sure most if not all of you know this but always check the dates on the products you use. The silicone I used to seal the chamber expired Jan 11. I put it on last week and yesterday it was still wet. So last night I scraped it all off and cleaned up the areas where it was used. I reapplied new silicone last night and it was dry enough after a few hours to put a coat of epoxy paint on it.

Tonight Ill put the second coat of paint.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Oh and its looking like I'll be using these hinges.


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Second coat of epoxy paint applied, this thing is now water/vapor proof. The wife just hit me with wanting to get nicer plywood for the outer covering. She says it would look much nicer then the knotty plywood I have now. 

SWEET.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Installed a few pieces of insulation last night. Worked out a few more issues and problems. If all goes well, when I get my tax refund Ill be able to acquire the rest of the supplies and finish this bad boy.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

I know its been awhile since my last update but nothing has happened the past two weeks. Last night I got off my lazy ass and went over to my buddy's house to do some work. I installed the first piece of insulation along the back wall. Making the cut along the insulation for the refrigeration line was a lot easier then I expected. I used construction adhesive to attach it to the back wall and to put the foam back in the stop where I had to cut the channel for the line to pass through. Tonight Ill put the other two layers along the back along with the standoff's which will hold the cold plate.

I should have my tax refund deposited on Wednesday, after that I'll be able to go to the store and get the rest of the materials needed to finish this bad boy.

I forgot my camera last night but Ill take some tonight showing the process I'm using to insulate the back and support the cold place.

Dan


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## Cliff (Feb 5, 2012)

My solution ended up being Peltiers. Haven't installed 'em but have figured out how I will

I was going to build a ferm' cabinet but decided I didn't want to lose all the space 
I ordered a water jacketed conical from a Chinese company but the idiots screwed the pooch on the welding so it went back. 

I ended up with a Blichmann 14.5 gallon spun ( not welded) conical and the way I'll mount the peltier units will be to use abrasive to make a 3/8" thick piece of aluminum the same radius as the fermenter and use some CPU thermal grease to make the bond to the SST body. Then large band clamps to hold it together with the peltiers bolted to the aluminym block. 


Blichman won't make a Water Jacket unit. I suppose it's because the cost would drive people away and he can't afford to inventory a wide variety of things. 

I thought about soldering a series of copper or SST pipes to the thing and cooling it with chilled mineral oil but the work - - oh the work. 
One thing I've never considered is JB WELD 
Douse the stuff with aluminum filings and dust and maybe just maybe it might be thermally conductive sufficient to make a conical into a water jacketed model without having to weld or solder pipes to the SST body. JB weld and pipes?


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

OK, lots to update, I left work early Tuesday to do some building, well I called in sick yesterday and worked all day on it to try to get it done by this weekend. Also I left my camera at home so I had to use my cell phone to take pics. They are not the best but you will get the idea.

I installed the insulation against the back wall and mounted the cold plate. I used 2 inch wooden dowels to hold the cold plate. I ran a long screw through the back wall and insulation. Then using a big washer I screwed the wooden dowel to the end of the screw sticking out of the insulation.


















Next I insulated the top.










Then I added the 2X2's around the top and placed the temp controller.


























I also attached thermal insulation on the back.










After each layer of insulation I sealed all the seams with silicone then taped them.

Tonight I plan on cutting out the front piece of wood with the door holes and then placing the insulation along the front. I have Friday off so I plan on working on it all day and I hope finish the inside of it. Then Ill start temp testing and I plan on putting a batch of brew in it on Sunday.

The outside will still need to be stained and coated with Polyurethane.

Dan


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## Cliff (Feb 5, 2012)

Nice build
Don't let the possibility of an imperfect seal on the doors trouble you. 

That refrigerator unit is way far over kill for your application so you have oodles and boatloads of extra capacity to compensate for imperfect seals and crappy insulation. 
Remember, you are building a fermentation chamber not a deep freeze unit. 

Have you considered installing a little fan? You know, just to prevent cold spots. 

I'd mount the doors the most expeditious way: flat over the plywood skin. Your doors can - or not - be hinged. You may find hinges create a problem with the doors flopping around or in the way depending on the chamber's location. Weather stripping like they have at the borg will work well as a seal. You can glue it with some newer glues meant for polymers, Some stripping has an adhesive backing, and you can use double sticky foam core tape to mount weather stripping. 

I'd probably use a  sturdier hinge than the one you posted. 
You will be moving heavy things in and out of this chamber so heavy hinges will handle the occasional beating you may deliver.


I like the use you made of Minwax products. 
Weights: I had wondered what they were good for.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Florida.... cold.... will there be much condensation in the unit? Where will it go if it runs down the interior surfaces?


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

What a day, got a lot done today, First I put a second coat of paint on the inside of all the panels. Then I cut out the door holes.










Next I cut out the little trap door where the temp controller goes.

















Then I clamped the front onto the frame and got it square. After it was all aligned where I wanted it, I pulled one clamp off at a time and put construction adhesive along the frame and re-clamped. I kept doing this until I had the adhesive all around the frame where the front attaches. Then I screwed the front to the frame.










Here it is with the clamps removed.










I then installed the last of the insulation to the top and bottom of the chamber. You cant really see it in the pic below but its done.










Here is how it looked when I left .










Tomorrow Ill attach the sides and put in the side insulation. Run the wires through the top and attach the top and make the doors. I hope to have all the construction done tomorrow and start the temp testing.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

ITS ALIVE, kinda.

Put on the other side today and insulation today, Its now totally insulated and boxed in but the doors.










Cut out the support floor. Its that stuff you find on the back of entertainment centers, that brown press stuff. I covered it with 2 layers of poly to seal it.


















Started the wiring, I will post a schematic later when its all done. In this first pic you can see the wires coming from the compressor going to the terminal board (TB), Plus the main power cable coming in to the TB










In these next few pics you can see the wiring for the fans. The temp probe will also go in the hole on the top and just down about an inch.


























I gutted an old DC power supply I had laying around for an old phone or something. Im going to use this to power the fans but it will be wired into the TB so I dont have to have two power plugs going to the unit. I put it inside a project box I had and will attach it to the side of the unit. You can see the two screws sticking out of the wood above the TB in one of the pics.


















In this last pic I have the power run from the TB to where the DC power supply will mount.










I have not run the lines from the temp controller yet so I powered up the compresses directly and powered up the DC power supply to check that all is working. The compressor came on and was nice and quiet. Using my infrared thermometer I check the cold place after about 3 minutes of running and it was 24 degrees. (SWEET)

I tried to get the fans to work but the DC power supply is not working. Looking at it I think I broke a solder run when I was taking it apart, no problem, Ill just fix it tomorrow at work.

Im also going to run two digital thermometer probes into the chamber to attach to the fermentation buckets to be able to check there temps.



Tomorrow Ill start the doors and finish the wiring I hope.


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## Down and Outman (Jun 13, 2011)

My Dad loves to brew his own beer. He'd love it. Maybe if I was a nice son I'd make him one. He's in Florida as well.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

Nice chamber. I am looking forward to seeing the end product. I am curious why you wouldn't just get a used fridge for $100 or so to use as the chamber? Not being a _____, If you just wanted to build your own, I can certainly understand. Just wondering if there is a reason not to use an old fridge?


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

SeanStuart said:


> Nice chamber. I am looking forward to seeing the end product. I am curious why you wouldn't just get a used fridge for $100 or so to use as the chamber? Not being a _____, If you just wanted to build your own, I can certainly understand. Just wondering if there is a reason not to use an old fridge?


This is going to go in my bar area at home and I wanted it to match the rest of the furniture in the room. I already have a kegerator and small fridge in there, didnt want another one. Plus one day I may put a tower on this with 4 taps.

Dan


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## Cliff (Feb 5, 2012)

nice build. coming along nicely.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I am somewhat confused. I too do a bit of home brewing, and have in the past used a friends old Kenmore Garage fridge for lagering. Temp control was quite easy with the dial thermostat that is in the fridge. Not that your build is bad by any means, I am just wondering if there are cheap fridges or something that have poor temp controls... 

I always heard that the same fridge you use as a kegerator will work for lower temp fermentation.


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Again I just want something that will match the rest of my bar room, plus Ill be putting a tower on this some day with 4 taps.

Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Working mostly on wiring last night. Wired up the temp controller, routed and secured the wires, turned it all on and did a temp test.

At first when I turned on the controller the compressor wouldn't turn on. I thought something was wrong and I was looking over all my wiring to see if I had something wrong when all of the sudden it kicked on. I forgot all about the compressor delay. As you can see from the last pic I filled the door holes with insulation to see how it would cool. There were so many gaps in the front that cold air was coming out everywhere. I also need to get the fans wired in cuz after about an hour of running the bottom of the chamber was at 52 while the top wall still 69. The cold plate frosted all up due to the leaks and the high humidity yesterday. Drip plate is next to put in after the doors and fans.


































Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

With the temp controller I have Ill be able to adjust the temp with a much wider range then any fridge. Plus I have the space for cold storage of kegs and other things. I can subdivide the area for a cold area and a not so cold area. A fridge just cant do all the things I need my chamber to do.

Dan


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## danc89 (Mar 13, 2012)

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http://danc89.tedsplans.hop.clickbank.net"

Check this out! I loved it!Thanks for reading and taking the time to view this link!


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

I dont know why I keep putting off making the doors but Im running out of other things to do. Last night I removed the single power supply and installed a plug and just used two transformers for the fans, I also installed the fans. Did another temp test with insulation over the doors and with the fans on it cooled down much faster. It dropped from 80 to 57 in about 30 minutes.



Here are some pics of the fans I installed. The fan with the lights is installed between the two doors up top. You can get a good idea of the placement from the pics I took from inside the chamber. I had to get small to fit in there. The second fan draws in air from one of the large flat sides and shoots it out the small side. I have it hanging behind the cold plate. 



In the pic that shows the wires coming in from the top you can see the temp sensor from the controller.


















































Dan


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## Lostinwoods (Mar 1, 2012)

Hey, just wanted to say looks really neat. I looked at home brewing recipes from 1844 (I like doing things old ways) but it got too involved. If I ever get a good crop of strawberries I'll try some wine making. You're going to be able to brew up some pretty big batches...should make for a good I'm finished party!


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Built the doors tonight. They came out ok in my opinion. Tomorrow Ill insulate them and I hope hang them.


























Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

Tonight I attached the doors, not perfect but much better then I thought I'd do. I also make the safety cover for the terminal board and taped up the fan wires inside. Still need to insulate the doors, Ill get that done this weekend.





















































Dan


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## Brewman (Jan 25, 2012)

*ITS ALIVE*​
And she is doing well. Yesterday I finished the seal, added the door locks and insulated the doors. Now the doors only have one layer of insulation right now but I can add the other two layers at any time. Ill probably do that today while brewing.

As you can see in the pic's I used double locks for each door. The seal is perfect and there is no light leaks. I used an infer red thermometer to check for leaks around the doors and nothing, not a one.

I turned her on last night around 7:30 and set to for 68 degrees and waited a few hours before I started timing the on/off cycle. When I left around 10:30 the average on/off cycle was as follows.

3 minutes of compressor on time to get to temp.
24 minutes of compressor off time.

I have my temp controller set with a +/- 2 degree range.

Here are the pics from yesterday.


























































Dan


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