# Stair Rail Challenge



## arkydave (Apr 21, 2007)

I'm installing an oak stair rail, and want to have a return at top and bottom. Does anyone know how to come up with the correct angles for the compount cuts :blink: I need for this? Thanks.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Are you talking about returning the railing into the wall.

Like this picture.


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## arkydave (Apr 21, 2007)

Exactly. Can't see in the pic what the profile of your rail is, but mine is shaped like the greek omega, so a simple miter won't work.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Here is the profile and that is a simple mitre to return to the wall. You may want it to flatten off before returning to the wall.

http://www.ljsmith.net/lj-6010p.html


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## arkydave (Apr 21, 2007)

Okay, Dave. I see now what you did. I was complicating it by expecting the bottom of the return to be parallel to the floor. I guess there is no reason that it needs to be. I had thought about flattening off before returning, but that doesn't work well in my application.

I think you've pulled me through again, pal :thumbup:. Thanks a lot.


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## Big Dave (Sep 16, 2006)

Yea, you can flatten it first then mitre to the wall. You will have to know what the angle of the incline on the stairs is and your mitre angle will be half of that. 

Sometimes we make it harder than it needs to be.


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## trim man (Nov 3, 2006)

arkydave said:


> I'm installing an oak stair rail, and want to have a return at top and bottom. Does anyone know how to come up with the correct angles for the compount cuts :blink: I need for this? Thanks.


The smoothest feeling way to level the top and bottom of the rail off is with starting/landing easement fittings, They are much nicer feeling to the hand than miter cuts. You could use goosenecks to both level off and return to the walls, or just 90 degree turns to return to the wall in line with the handrail. Look through the "Fitts" or other stair parts manufacturer catalogue for a selection of fittings. It is of course more costly than a simple miter, but looks much more professional IMO.


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## edp (May 25, 2007)

I agree wholeheartedly. Get the proper fitting from the manufacturer for your application. It will make for a much better looking job.


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## mvh32 (Nov 21, 2008)

What would you do if the angles going down the steps are 135 degrees instead of 90 degrees? Is this just a 22.5 degree miter cut?


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## btyirin (Aug 14, 2008)

I was a stair railing installer for 8 years. Thats all I did. I agree that fittings are the way to go for a nice job. Aside from that drawing it out is always a fool proof way to find the angles and fast. Generally there are two angles to stairs that I have worked with. the 11 inch tread and the 10 inch tread. The 11 inch usually gives a stair angle of 36 degrees and the 10 inch gives a 41 degree angle. 

for the 11 inch tread the top of the stair case angle is about 18 and the bottom is 26
for the 10 inch tread the top of the stair case angle is about 21 and the bottom is 24

I used to have to do these everyday http://www.flickr.com/photos/bri_bri/sets/72157605959904410/ and I think I am a little insane as a result now.

EDIT----And I just realized how old this thread is, lol.


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## 42Hickorysouth (Nov 24, 2008)

btyirin Your advice is still handy thanks. I always had to use a level and a speed square to find angle and divide in half to get proper angle.


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## goingenoan (May 24, 2008)

btyirin said:


> I was a stair railing installer for 8 years. Thats all I did. I agree that fittings are the way to go for a nice job. Aside from that drawing it out is always a fool proof way to find the angles and fast. Generally there are two angles to stairs that I have worked with. the 11 inch tread and the 10 inch tread. The 11 inch usually gives a stair angle of 36 degrees and the 10 inch gives a 41 degree angle.
> 
> for the 11 inch tread the top of the stair case angle is about 18 and the bottom is 26
> for the 10 inch tread the top of the stair case angle is about 21 and the bottom is 24
> ...


Nice job Btyirin, although I gotta say, those balusters don't do much for the overall look of that staircase:blink:. I am guessing either the homeowner requested it or maybe the architect. If it was your decision then I guess I just stuck my foot in it! Sorry, its just my two cents worth:smile:


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## btyirin (Aug 14, 2008)

I picked them out myself! No, just kidding. It was the builders choice. I never got to design one myself. And I agree with you. The they are gross looking. Matter of fact, the balusters on the back stairs don't even match. The builder was trying to save money and had them stored in the basement of a previous house he buily. You can't tell from the pics but they are covered in old drywall dust and concrete powder. Nice stuff. 

Over the years my tastes of changed and I'm starting to like the iron baluster now.


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