# Any of you make money off woodworking?



## Marcus (Jan 25, 2010)

So here's what I'm thinking......

I haven't really gotten into any "serious" woodworking......yet. We want a picnic table so I've searched around and found a lot of good plans on the web. The one I think that I'm going for is an Octagonal picnic table. I think it will be about $150-$200 for everything I need to build it. I've seen picnic table much like the one I'm going to build selling for $400 to $600, at times even more.

So, If I make this at a cost of about $200 and sell it for $400 (or more) then that's a great money maker. And then do it all over again. There is even an outdoor furniture store I could go to and see if they would like to buy/sell what I make, if I decide to go that route.

Any thoughts? How do any of you go about making money with woodworking, either on the side or as full time?


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

Here's an old thread that may help...

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/income-furniture-makers-17626/


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

I thought about doing this for money once, but lets be completely realistic... People get into this because its fun to do. If I had to add the stresses of trying to run a business it wouldn't be fun anymore. 

Additionally, how do you price this stuff? For instance, go look at some of the scroll-saw creations by guys on this forum. With the man hours and detail that go into these projects, it would sacreligious to even try to put a figure on these... they are priceless. 

Everything I build is for me; I have the intention of keeping it. If someone wants me to build something for them, I charge them what I paid for materials. I offer my labor for free with the understanding that they will get it when they get it.


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## Marcus (Jan 25, 2010)

Maybe I should be a little more descriptive.....

I'm not planning on this being a full time business or anything of the sort. I'm just going to be a hobbyist who hope to make a little money on the side.


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## Dvoigt (Dec 6, 2007)

yeah if you can make $200 on one, then sure do it. You may end up only making $5/hour in the end, but if you are ok with that. I just use any money I get to buy more tools


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## Marcus (Jan 25, 2010)

Dvoigt said:


> I just use any money I get to buy more tools


Now that's what I'm talking about!!!


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## Mizer (Mar 11, 2010)

Marcus said:


> Maybe I should be a little more descriptive.....
> 
> I'm not planning on this being a full time business or anything of the sort. I'm just going to be a hobbyist who hope to make a little money on the side.


I think that is a great idea. If you plan on not making a lot of money you will not be disappointed when you don't. On the other hand you will be very happy when at times you do make some good fun money.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

Sounds like you want to first build (and sell) the prototype and then use proceeds to buy material to build the keeper. Very clever! I like.

SteveEl


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## fromthehills (Aug 21, 2010)

It seems to me that the guys that make money off of carpentry/woodworking, any real money, are the guys that hire the carpenters, and don't actually do the work. Admittedly, that's when I made a little money. As a framer, I made rent and beer money. As a framing contractor, I made enough to build my own house.


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## ash123 (Mar 14, 2010)

Try it. Don't quit yer day job.


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## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

Im not gonna be a dream squasher but times are tough out there for selling things ya make.There are always some sales you can make but the majority of people out there are just trying to make ends meet.Still if you get a charge outa selling and aint dependent on the sales then certainly have fun and its all good!Itchy:yes:


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## Ledhead (Aug 3, 2009)

I once got pressured into making ten 6 sided picnic tables. I had previously made three of them, one at a time. What I learned is that however long it takes to make one, for about 10% - 15% more time, you can make three or four. Especially on the 6 or 8 sided ones, you're cutting a lot of pieces of wood the exact same size and miter, drilling holes in the exact same locations, etc. so might as well cut for several tables while your stop blocks are set up, then reset for the next operation. When I built those ten 6 siders for that job, I completed all my cuts in one sitting. Then setup for repeated drilling operations, etc. 
Of course your investment in material is significantly more. 
Enjoy . . .


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Taxes must be paid.Doin it under the table discussion isn't appropriate for a public forum.However,if one was to spend all the monies on aquiring new equip......well now,your gov. would love you.And has been a timehonored way of lessoning tax burden,but you still need to file a return.

Thats one way to look at it,heres another


Do you realize it takes almost the same amt of tools to production build picnic tables as it does fine handcrafted "case goods".You'll be in competition with large corp production shops who have tax lawyers on staff to build the former.Who are you competing against in building highend stuff?Start building pcs. in prs.Keep one for yourself and sell the other.Start spending more time in used bookstores than tool outlets.Buy up every gauldang book you can find on American antique furniture(Wallace Nutting should keep you entertained for awhile).Look for #1 books about stuff in your area.#2 Concentrate on a "preiod" that you like,all the while looking at what sells.BW


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## Marcus (Jan 25, 2010)

SteveEl said:


> Sounds like you want to first build (and sell) the prototype and then use proceeds to buy material to build the keeper. Very clever! I like.
> 
> SteveEl


I'm hoping that's the way it will work out. Gonna take extra time on the first one to make it as perfect as I can.



ash123 said:


> Try it. Don't quit yer day job.


No no no. Not planning on doing that! I'm a lil smarter than that :thumbsup:



Itchy Brother said:


> Im not gonna be a dream squasher but times are tough out there for selling things ya make.There are always some sales you can make but the majority of people out there are just trying to make ends meet.Still if you get a charge outa selling and aint dependent on the sales then certainly have fun and its all good!Itchy:yes:


Not a dream squasher Itchy! I totally understand what you are saying and I do agree.


I'm not planning on this being a sure thing. If it happens, GREAT. If not then i didn't loose anything over it because we want the things I'm planning on making in the first place.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I don't make something and then try to sell it. That's a "make and wait" way to go. Doing that competes with every similar product.

I find it more productive to custom make, which is to make to order. The challenge with that is that you have to be equipped with the tools and experience to make whatever comes in the door. 












 





.
.


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

In my early days when I got good enough for people to want what I made, I jumped at the chance to make a buck. As years went by, I filled my shop with tools. Now I just want to make what I want to make. Most of the things I do involve processes that I have never done. If it ain't fun, I don't do it.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi Marcus

Build one for yourself, and see if you enjoy doing it. A well built octagonal picnic table will bring you much joy in the use,and last for many years. As an exercise in planning, start a log book and keep track of the time you spend on this project. Keep track of everything, including time spent procuring your materials, planning, and actual construction and finishing. Also, keep track of all the materials you purchase, including such mundane things as sandpaper and finishing nails, stain , varnish, etc. etc.

When you have finished your prototype add it all up to see what your true cost is. Then, add up all your hours and figure out how much you would have to charge for the table to make a decent working man's wage.

You will have a fine picnic table, and you will have your answer.

Best of all, even if you decide not to build another one, is that you will have had the fun and pleasure of crafting your own picnic table.

Have fun.

Gerry


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## Rick C. (Dec 17, 2008)

I would like to make $$ at this,but, right now folks around here can't afford much.
My skills aren't all that great so I usually do things for cost plus favor or barter. It's not getting my shop finished but it is building my skill level.
This allows me to take my time and research different ways to accomplish a task.It's fun to try new things.
USE THE $$ TO BUY NEW TOOLS:thumbsup::thumbsup:.


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

Marcus said:


> Maybe I should be a little more descriptive.....
> 
> I'm not planning on this being a full time business or anything of the sort. I'm just going to be a hobbyist who hope to make a little money on the side.


Sorry marcus, I wasn't trying to call you a fool for selling your stuff! It's a good idea, one I've considered, but I don't like doing it because it doesn't usually go well for me....


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## cheese9988 (Jan 4, 2010)

Dvoigt said:


> I just use any money I get to buy more tools


:thumbsup:


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## b00kemdano (Feb 10, 2009)

I use money that I make to buy more wood. 

Most of what I've made fits the "make and wait" profile mentioned above. I found it difficult to decide how to price things (at craft shows) in order to move merchandise and still cover the cost of making them.

Custom pieces are definitely a better way to go, as long as you can stick to a resonable schedule. My time is hit and miss, so I try to avoid these things unless the person requesting them is very much NOT in a hurry for it.

Making money at something you love is everyone's dream. It does come with a price though. Also as mentioned above, dealing with the business side of it sucks the life out of you, and leaves you with a lot less time in the shop. 

Find your balance and do what you love!


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

I tried just this idea. I even had a high-priced garden center my sister worked at to sell them for me. They bought one, I don't think they ever sold it, and that was it. It takes a lot more time that you think to make them, bringing down your $ per hour. Any money to be made is going to come from quantity & efficiency. But, if you have buyers and want to do it for fun, that's OK......


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## weavilswoodshop (Sep 3, 2010)

Looks like most of the replys were not too encouraging.. If you can build for 200.00 and sell for 400.00 Great.. If you want to concentrate on outdoor furniture first.. Great..(Its really a good place to start..) I would not compare it to fine hand crafted case goods..I've built both and lawn furniture is pretty straight forward with a lot more room for error. You can find most of the lumber you need, whether just plain treated to begin with or if you're very brave you might venture into red wood or a water resistant hardwood, will come in widths that you can work with. A decent 99.00 miter saw, a router for rounding edges and a good bit driver should be enough power tools to get you started. There are a lot of good suggested plans available.Try any home improvement store. One negative point I will mention is that very few stores will buy from you for resale. All my furniture that I place in stores is on consignment only. Some will sale..most will not... Don't be overly discouraged.. Have fun but remember that when you build to sale the pressure to be perfect may take the joy out of what started as a great hobby


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

I run a hardware store in the midwest. We sell cedar adirondack chairs for $29.99 and fold down adirondack chairs for $34.99. I can't buy lumber for that much less cover time.

I make occasional projects for money. Most have come from word of mouth from people that know me and have seen my work. Most of the projects have been built ins or furniture. The more skill I develop, the more opportunities there are.

In past years I jumped at every opportunity to make bucks on woodworking. Often times I actually lost money or broke even. Now I am more picky in what I do. I either make money or I don't do it...exception is if there is a project that I really want to do.


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## woody woodturner (Jul 9, 2010)

i only make stuff i want or my woodworkers club can sell and i have had my heart broken when its sold for the price of the materials :no:


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## tooljack (Jul 19, 2010)

In 1984 I attended the Kerrville TX. ARTS and crafts fair. It basicly has two sections to it, one is the high rent district which is filled with, BY INVITATION ONLY ARTIST, the other side is more or less crafts. The Artist side is a wonderful adventure to see and the prices run up to the ten's of thounsands of $$, did't see any money exchanged there. The crafts side had hundreds of venders and items. good exchange of $$. I was taken up by one stand. A family of 4, man, wife and 2 teen boys. Their item, a wooden [ TOY RUBBER BAND GUN at $2.00 each. A long line of people were paying the woman for 1 or more toys. The sons ran 2 small bandsaws cutting out the toys from precut and marked lengths of 1X4's, no sanding of edges. The man added the clothes pin at the butt and band. The woman"s apron pockets were bulging with cash. !!!!Question where is the money, in ART or CRAFTS??? YOU may be the judge.


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## Marcus (Jan 25, 2010)

tooljack said:


> In 1984 I attended the Kerrville TX. ARTS and crafts fair. It basicly has two sections to it, one is the high rent district which is filled with, BY INVITATION ONLY ARTIST, the other side is more or less crafts. The Artist side is a wonderful adventure to see and the prices run up to the ten's of thounsands of $$, did't see any money exchanged there. The crafts side had hundreds of venders and items. good exchange of $$. I was taken up by one stand. A family of 4, man, wife and 2 teen boys. Their item, a wooden [ TOY RUBBER BAND GUN at $2.00 each. A long line of people were paying the woman for 1 or more toys. The sons ran 2 small bandsaws cutting out the toys from precut and marked lengths of 1X4's, no sanding of edges. The man added the clothes pin at the butt and band. The woman"s apron pockets were bulging with cash. !!!!Question where is the money, in ART or CRAFTS??? YOU may be the judge.




Hmmmm. Now that's pretty good.:thumbsup:

thanks all you guys. Seems that like I thought I have to be very cautious about all this.

But what I'm going to be making is stuff that we are going to want so if they don't sell then there is no loss. To me that would be a good way to start (if there even is a start LOL).


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Ledhead said:


> I once got pressured into making ten 6 sided picnic tables. I had previously made three of them, one at a time. What I learned is that however long it takes to make one, for about 10% - 15% more time, you can make three or four. Especially on the 6 or 8 sided ones, you're cutting a lot of pieces of wood the exact same size and miter, drilling holes in the exact same locations, etc. so might as well cut for several tables while your stop blocks are set up, then reset for the next operation. When I built those ten 6 siders for that job, I completed all my cuts in one sitting. Then setup for repeated drilling operations, etc.
> Of course your investment in material is significantly more.
> Enjoy . . .


I occasionally build stretchers[frames for stretching canvas on for painting], for an artist friend. I have found that if he asks me to build five the cost per unit goes down considerably. Just as Ledhead says, you cut all of one piece, and then move on to the next operation.

Gerry


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## cody.sheridan-2008 (May 23, 2010)

Masterofnone said:


> Sorry marcus, I wasn't trying to call you a fool for selling your stuff! It's a good idea, one I've considered, but I don't like doing it because it doesn't usually go well for me....


:laughing: Too true!


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## fromthehills (Aug 21, 2010)

That's me!


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Marcus said:


> So here's what I'm thinking......
> 
> *I haven't really gotten into any "serious" woodworking......yet. We want a picnic table* so I've searched around and found a lot of good plans on the web. The one I think that I'm going for is an Octagonal picnic table. I think it will be about $150-$200 for everything I need to build it. I've seen picnic table much like the one I'm going to build selling for $400 to $600, at times even more.
> 
> ...





BWSmith said:


> *Taxes must be paid.Doin it under the table discussion isn't appropriate for a public forum.*However,if one was to spend all the monies on aquiring new equip......well now,your gov. would love you.And has been a timehonored way of lessoning  tax burden,but you still need to file a return.
> 
> Thats one way to look at it,heres another
> 
> ...



BW, 

The first thing that Marcus stated was "*I haven't really gotten into any "serious" woodworking......yet. We want a picnic table". 

Lets look at that statement and think. There was no talk of doing work and getting paid, nor paying taxes and definitely not talk of doing it under the table. The picnic table is not even built yet. :laughing:
*
I didn't here Marcus say he wanted to mass produce picnic tables. It was suggested that he could save time by building more then one at a time but that was it. *It takes a few less tools to build picnic tables then needed to build fine handcrafted case goods. While it would be a good idea to build 2 of most things keeping one and selling the other. As stated by Marcus " I haven't done much serious woodworking" implies he need not start with high end stuff right off the bat. I believe he should start with the picnic table and other projects as he builds his skills before taking on high end stuff.
*
Last thing
What is your thing with taxes? You mentioned taxes, tax burden and tax lawyers all in one post about picnic tables. 

BW sorry to come down on you so hard but some things stick out to me. I'm really a nice guy.:laughing:*
*


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## NathanT (Sep 11, 2009)

Spoons, big wooden paddle style spoons. You can make a pile of rough-outs an hour and the material cost is negligible. Sell them at craft fairs or even on ebay.

The big reason for this is plastic melt and metal are bad for your non-stick, everyone needs wooden spoons and they don't last forever.


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