# Baby Crib



## sawduststeve (Jan 11, 2009)

Hello fellow wood workers I am in need of some ideas. I am building a crib for my son and I am looking for a good way to attach the slates to the side boards. Slats are 2 1/4" wide by 3/8" thick and I am attaching them to 3/4 oak board sides. I made the slats by resawing oak board so they are not all perfectly the same thickness. Was thinking about using biscuit joiner but because of the width of slats you are right on the very edge with biscuit cut. No room for any error. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Do you have a picture of what you are trying to do?


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Normally, the slats would be morticed into the rails. An option for you might be to cut a groove in the center of the rails, 3/8"-1/2" deep. Cut some fillers to fit in the groove, place a slat, then a filler, then a slat, etc. You will have to plane, shoulder or sand down the thicker slats if you can't plane them to equal thickness.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

The slats should really be inserted into a mortice or a groove, you don't want your son to kick a slat out creating a hazardous situation. Are you following a plan or is this your own design?


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## sawduststeve (Jan 11, 2009)

http://www.weaverfurnituresales.com/West-Lake-Convertible-Crib.aspx This is a link to what I am trying to achieve. Other that the front side is going to be hinged so that it can be folded down. The reason that I don't like the groove and the filler sticks it is almost impossible to get the filler sticks and slats all put back in groove without a bunch of cracks and voids that need to be filled. Also if you need to sand after placing filler sticks how do you get between the slats? I have kicked around a new idea and that is cutting a tenon on ends of slats and then taking biscuit joiner and making grooves in upper and lower rails to insert tenons into. What does anyone think of this idea??? 
Thanks


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Be very careful when building a baby crib. There are a hundred ways to injure your child by not following strict building methods. As for me just reading about a few accidents was reason to never build one. Many companies stopped building them. 

Al


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I agree. To me building a crib isn't worth it. The time and money put into engineering safe cribs far outpaces what we could put into it.


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## sawduststeve (Jan 11, 2009)

I built one for my first grandchild out of Hickory and it turned out real nice the only error I made is that on the end of the front panel I had too large of gap between the slats. Daycare standards require the slats to be no further than 2" apart. So I am being more careful with this one but at the same time not selling it but giving it as a gift to my other son and his wife. Thanks for all the input!


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Al B Thayer said:


> Be very careful when building a baby crib. There are a hundred ways to injure your child by not following strict building methods. As for me just reading about a few accidents was reason to never build one. Many companies stopped building them.
> 
> Al


I agree that there is great responsibility placed on the builder. Just as all we should do when working with wood/tools/machinery/ we need to DD. (do diligence) 

On the other hand, this is one of the most rewarding projects you can do. I had a couple of High School students build them to welcome in their new little brother or sister. They couldn't have been more proud. What a great way to welcome a new baby into the family and maybe create a better bond with them. I'd look at it like a family heirloom, as it likely will be passed down the family tree. You have a great opportunity to pass down your pride of workmanship, as well as a part of yourself. Make yourself proud.:thumbsup:


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Old Skhool said:


> I agree that there is great responsibility placed on the builder. Just as all we should do when working with wood/tools/machinery/ we need to DD. (do diligence)
> 
> On the other hand, this is one of the most rewarding projects you can do. I had a couple of High School students build them to welcome in their new little brother or sister. They couldn't have been more proud. What a great way to welcome a new baby into the family and maybe create a better bond with them. I'd look at it like a family heirloom, as it likely will be passed down the family tree. You have a great opportunity to pass down your pride of workmanship, as well as a part of yourself. Make yourself proud.:thumbsup:


I respectfully disagree. There are so many things that could happen that no High School student could possibly be aware of. All it takes is one accident and blame will live with you for the rest of your life. 

Al


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Al B Thayer said:


> I respectfully disagree. There are so many things that could happen that no High School student could possibly be aware of. All it takes is one accident and blame will live with you for the rest of your life.
> 
> Al


Al, I was a Woodworking technology teacher and was fully credentialed. I had taken Technology/engineering classes at the 2 of the largest universities and most respected and prolific teacher training facilities on the west coast. As well I had attended 3 additional universities, obtaining a math credential,masters degree, .... 

As part of the curriculum for both Tech Ed, as well as an Engineering prerequisite we spent an entire semester studying accidents, safety precautions/procedures... also have had experience working in construction, had a small cabinetmaking business, attended conferences such as meeting with an expert court witness that job was to win the plaintiff's case against the Industrial Tech teacher such as myself. Lots of questions, handouts, procedures, templates for specific push sticks... 

I have done my DD and the cradles were built under my supervision, from material choice, drawings,... Also won the county competition judged by other professionals, and finally the his parents took possession of the cradle not him. (We didn't send many projects to state because of a past history problems of breakage in transit, or when being handled, setup/taken down, but feel the project would have scored well.) BTW, I taught Woodworking technology for almost 20 years, never had *any* type of serious injury. When I said DD I really did mean exactly that. Accidents can and do happen, but prevention can go a _*long*_ way. You have to know what you are doing, especially with a project of this type. 

You know there have been many wooden boats built, houses built in earthquake zones like the area I live in. I really belive in freedom of choice, the rights of the individual, and of couse education. Can no one be taught to do anything anymore? I mean this in the most positive way. Society is becoming too restrictive. So many policies, laws, ... are robbing us of the chance to develop common sense and scrutiny of thought. Now that is dangerous!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Was the crib design tested in a cpsc certified facility? If not, I wouldn't take on that liability. You may be the smartest guy in the state....but there's a lot of liability lawyers....


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

An ASE mechanic as well as an individual have the right to complete a brake job. That is the way that it should be. If the brakes failed, either could be found to be liable, or even perhaps the manufacturer, or aftermarket parts if used. Gm recently installed the front brakes on the rear axle, and the rear on the front of about 1700 cars. Customer complaints led to the finding of the problem of their poor braking. Supplier preassembled parts could have been mislabeled, or an assembly line error could have occurred. The rotor diameter was very close, something like 0.2". Hard to tell by eye, but the pad swept area was significantly different though hardly visible. GM wanted quiet and no finger pointing. Immediately recalled the units, most of which were still in transit or on the lots. But they did get into customers hands. Completed recall and settled the issue, along with any complaints to the NHTSA. And I'm sure many lawyers were involved too. Cars are all fixed, tested, deemed safe to sell. Well,

The case could be made for those cars and many American and European for not employing the Japanese practice of using pokey yoke (sp?). Simplistically like trying to fit a square plug in a round hole. They should not be able to be interchanged. Yes you are right, in that we learn and make laws to make things safer. I would definitely make sure I meet the standards, part of DD. Don't you think the younger generation should be taught to think and apply their knowledge. Hate to see a select few reading off a list by rote, and the sheep will follow. We are now required to have tire pressure sensors in the wheels that sets a light if the pressure drops. Can't be trusted to check our own oil either, nor the transmission fluid. Many vehicles use idiot lights for these functions. Gotta buy Dexos approved oil too. Gm gets a royalty if an aftermarket manufacturer wants to put the label on their product. What happened to the API? You do own a Sawstop right? That nice looking table that you made could be a safety hazard too. Ever have friends over, a few cocktails., and I'm sure someone will, or has sat on that table. I'm sure it held, or would, but the reality is if a leg gave way, someone could hit their head causing serious injury.

There are a lot of people smarter than I am, but I don't trust anything until a full examination, research, open mind, and wiliness to consult someone more experienced/knowlegable than I am. I don't trust the "cpsc certified facility" either. I've seen so many certified products that have failed. Last summer, hanging out at the pool, my almost new engineered/certified chair put my rear on the ground, and my head into the concrete. I wasn't over the weight limit either. It LOOKED OK when my wife brought them home. Initial inspection seemed okay, seemed stable, didn't flex much. My final inspection was up close and personal. My slip up, their fault, but certified.

I do see your point. The cradle was made 25+ years ago. Insurance, yeah, covered @ 1 million back then as a CTA member, also the school has there policies, lawyers... The cradle would easily hold my weight, didn't rack, well braced, mortise and tenon, significant attention to balance, ... Most importantly not made to a price point barely passing minimum standards. By far our biggest concern was the safety for all.


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

This went off the deep end fast.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Old Skhool said:


> Al, I was a Woodworking technology teacher and was fully credentialed. I had taken Technology/engineering classes at the 2 of the largest universities and most respected and prolific teacher training facilities on the west coast. As well I had attended 3 additional universities, obtaining a math credential,masters degree, ....
> 
> As part of the curriculum for both Tech Ed, as well as an Engineering prerequisite we spent an entire semester studying accidents, safety precautions/procedures... also have had experience working in construction, had a small cabinetmaking business, attended conferences such as meeting with an expert court witness that job was to win the plaintiff's case against the Industrial Tech teacher such as myself. Lots of questions, handouts, procedures, templates for specific push sticks...
> 
> ...


This is meaningless when the unforeseen happens and you have a baby death on your hands. For me it's just not worth it. Could be the gift that you wish you never gave. Even if your not in the wrong. Your still going to feel like a spud for the rest of your life.

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

nbo10 said:


> This went off the deep end fast.


I mean no harm but it just wouldn't be prudent to not share the fact that there are risks.

Al


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Al, look at that, we finally found something we agree on.


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

With our 1st daughter I fixed the side panel to the head and foot board of a crib passed down for a couple gens, it pissed wifey and my mother off. I said "Tuff", I wasn't about to have the side suddenly drop while a hand, foot, arm or leg was between the bars. Read of that happening more than once. Back then I could fit my fist through the bars of the crib, when both graduated to bunk beds the crib was destroyed. This is a dilemma I could not side on when it comes to babies. Being able to say well if it fails you can always sue the manufacturer wouldn't make me feel better about a broken limb or worse.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

The idea isn't that there is someone to sue....the idea is that testing and standards have been applied. If someone knows of tested plans that have run through a cpsc approved lab then I'd be all for it. But I don't think it's a good idea to test a design out on a baby.


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

Al B Thayer said:


> This is meaningless when the unforeseen happens and you have a baby death on your hands. For me it's just not worth it. Could be the gift that you wish you never gave. Even if your not in the wrong. Your still going to feel like a spud for the rest of your life.
> 
> Al


I believe that all my credentialing,... makes me an expert and any testimony used in court would be either used for me, or against me. (though I consider this irrelevant in this situation.) I use the appropriate joinery, materials... and build to a higher standard that what is available in the store. I can afford and really appreciate having the ability and freedom to do so. I didn't want to discourage anyone that had already built a cradle and was in process of making a second, now taking no one's advise, free styling a build w/o input, which is what happened, or he got scared off. Me I don't have a dog in the fight. I fully respect your position on the subject, and you as a forum member. Keep up with your projects, all that have replied I have respect for your work as I have seen pics and works in progress/joinery.

I am no better than anyone else, but have inherited a personality to look out for, and stand up for others. Kind of like the sheep dog protecting herd. Thought the guy had a right to build the cradle. Stood up for his right. Whether I was right, or wrong I'll let you decide that.


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

ryan50hrl said:


> The idea isn't that there is someone to sue....the idea is that testing and standards have been applied. If someone knows of tested plans that have run through a cpsc approved lab then I'd be all for it. But I don't think it's a good idea to test a design out on a baby.


 Just curiosity, do you believe that the testing standards are a closely guarded secret, like unobtainable and not recreate able? (No I'm not going down that path, I get it, they don't have the stamp.) Best to you. I'd probably stand up for you too. I like your conviction.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't believe they're a secret, but standards are tested in a lab for a reason, and I doubt anyone here's having theirs tested. 

I just don't think it's worth the risk, build the new baby a bedroom set of dressers and night stands, or their first "big kid" bed. I just don't think the risk is worth it.


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## igster (Oct 31, 2013)

We're not only looking at physical strength standards...but measuremnts i.e. can a baby's head fit thru the slats, or can the catches fail and cause the rails to drop . My son, when he was a baby, got into the habit of shaking the crib while standing up and holding onto the rails...I am sooo glad nothing happened because that crib was well-designed - i mean, my son literally shook-walked that crib several inches away from the wall!


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## Old Skhool (Oct 31, 2009)

igster said:


> We're not only looking at physical strength standards...but measuremnts i.e. can a baby's head fit thru the slats, or can the catches fail and cause the rails to drop . My son, when he was a baby, got into the habit of shaking the crib while standing up and holding onto the rails...I am sooo glad nothing happened because that crib was well-designed - i mean, my son literally shook-walked that crib several inches away from the wall!


You didn't bolt it down? I try to bolt/screw everything down that can fall. Part of living on the san andreas fault. Seriously. Your son sounds like he is full of life. Enjoy them while you have them. Daughter just called, got to go. Best wishes.


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## igster (Oct 31, 2013)

Was in base housing at the time, really couldn't do things to the walls 30 yrs later he has caught the woodworking bug and regularly gets commissioned jobs for businesses - doing cabinetwork and custom decorative frame/trimwork/shelving and storage solutions.


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## sawduststeve (Jan 11, 2009)

I want to thank each of you kindly for your thoughtful input. The concern that the crib is up to safety standards shows that you the writers care. Sometimes what bothers me the most these days is the thought that a child would only have that crib for protection and not a loving and caring parent always within earshot of that crib. I know I must do all that I can to make the crib as safe as possible, yet I ask my Heavenly Father to give a caring heart to my children to watch over this new child that is to be born. Thanks again!:thumbsup:


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

I was taught that "He helps those that help themselves", there is a message in this thread, if not for you perhaps for others.


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## nbo10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Since there has been much talk about safety, if you're inclined you can catch up on what the federal government deems safe.

https://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/101628/cribfinal.pdf

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/newsroom/news-releases/2008/building-baby-safety-from-the-ground-up/


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

So in case there any doubt about the seriousness of cribs....here's why I'm so vocal against experimenting with your own crib design.


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## brizak79 (May 20, 2011)

Al B Thayer said:


> This is meaningless when the unforeseen happens and you have a baby death on your hands. For me it's just not worth it. Could be the gift that you wish you never gave. Even if your not in the wrong. Your still going to feel like a spud for the rest of your life.
> 
> Al


Al,
Where do you draw the line? A baby could get hurt on the chair you built. On the dining room table you built, coffee table, entertainment center, toy box, hope chest, clock, spoon, cutting board, etc. If you're so afraid of something happening to someone with something you built, then why do you make ANYTHING?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Cribs are different as your asleep while your baby is using it....


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## sawduststeve (Jan 11, 2009)

You know I started this discussion to ask for peoples advice on how to join slats to the upper and lower bars to build a crib. Then a bunch of so-called well meaning individuals who offer no advice to the original question but come here to beat me up about my stupid idea to build a crib and what a "death trap" it could be if it is not built or designed by some so-called engineering firm. To you scoffers I politely say bah humbug to you!!! This is my grandchild that I am building it for and I take pride in knowing that I have done my very best to build a crib that will be used by them and will stand sturdy enough to someday be used by their children. I feel that my crib that I am building is just as safe as any you will find on the market at any of the finest furniture stores in the country. So if you just want to throw in your .02 worth save your breath because you are wasting your time on this craftsman! Enough Said! Perhaps when I finish this "Death Trap" I will post photos so all these nay sayers can line up their "verbal guns" and take pot shots at me!!!


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I have no doubt you can build a very good looking crib. And with 99.99% certainty it will work as planned and safely. I was just trying to point out that there's more to think about than usual projects when it's a crib.


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## hwebb99 (Nov 27, 2012)

Ryan when the horse is dead, get off.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't saying he couldn't build a good piece. I'm not in any way questioning his craftsmanship which I'm confident is superb.


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