# Dining room table top



## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

I'm looking to build a dining room table, and it has become clear that doing it with biscuits is not going to work. We're talking about 3' wide & 8' long, give or take. The main thing is I don't have acess to a planer that big, so after glue-up, the top has to be very flat already, enough to clean up with a random orbit sander. The equipment I do have is a 6" jointer, table saw, 12" planer, and router. Obviously, some type of interlocking joint is in order. Any thoughts?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

What are you using the biscuits for that you say they won't work.


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## jlhaslip (Jan 16, 2010)

build it in smaller sections and then join the sections.
use a caul and clamp system to keep the section's tops relative to each other.

Read this Forum Topic starting here: http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-island-building-34958/index26/#post372059


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

On my last project, (a Nightstand), it was clear biscuits won't work because even on those small panels, there was some misalignment. I had to pay a local wodworking shop to plane the top. The problem would only be bigger with a large tabletop. And I did use cauls on that project, didn't totally work. I can't afford to take a couple hundred dollars worth of lumber and take a chance on it being misaligned when assembled, and then have to go on a bug hunt for a planer big enough to handle it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The best way is a commercial Wide Belt Sander*

http://www.grizzly.com/products/43-25-HP-3-Phase-Double-Wide-Belt-Sander/G0486
After you've done your best to align the planks with splines in a dado or slot, or a glue joint bit and used cauls on the glue up. A ROS will take forever to remove a mis-alignment. A portable hand held belt sander, 3" or 4", is better than a ROS, but requires a skilled operator. The learning curve isn't too bad but not on your finished workpiece.
If you have a router hand or table use this type of bit:


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

As Woodnthings says, use a wide belt sander. It is not that difficult to learn to use. I have an older 3" sander that I use to smooth any large built up surfaces.

For the most part I just let the weight of the sander do the work. I keep the sander moving and have the direction of belt rotation along the grain.

There is no inherent reason for biscuit joints to be out of alignment. It really is a matter of technique and careful attention. That is unless you have a biscuit jointer that is itself not good. That does happen. I know because I once had one.

George


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*"Wide Belt Sander"*

Is not a hand held sander. It is a cabinet shop machine 30" - 50" in width used for surfacing doors and large surface panels. Planers wide enough to do a dining room table top would be difficult to find. A commercial door maker will have a wide belt sander and probably finish sand it beautifully for a nominal fee. :thumbsup: bill
http://www.grizzly.com/products/43-25-HP-3-Phase-Double-Wide-Belt-Sander/G0486


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## pianoman (Jan 16, 2008)

If you can`t hier a wide belt sander...the router bit joint is good for alignment. And the old school way of flatening a top is to use a long (maybe 2 ft x 3" wide board that is absolutly flat and sticky back 80 grit sandpaper attached. Sand across grain...then 45 degrees to grain and then finnish with grain...reduce grit as you near the desired flatness. Rick


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## Johnny Yuma (Jul 14, 2009)

If you really want to get crazy you could flatten out a top with... dare I say, a hand plane!

I know, it's kind unconventional and all, but it just might work.:yes:


With that said I still believe that biscuits are the best way to go with limited tools.


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## jaros bros. (Feb 18, 2009)

If you clamp it up properly and sandwich it between a couple straightedges and take your time you should get them very close. Use plenty clamps and take your time. That said, a belt sander would really help you out.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

If you are having difficulties joining a large area because of many boards you can do it in smaller sections. Glue up 3 sections of 2 boards each. Then take the 3 boards and sand them flat while they are small and don't sand to much near the outer edges. Then glue up the three sections and do the same. Or if that is too much just glue up two sections and then add the last one to it.

Make sure your boards are true to begin with. You need to have a square edge on the gluing surface, or two complementary angles. When you joint the board put the face of the 1st board against the jointer fence and the second board away from the jointer fence. So even if your fence is out by a bit the opposite angles will cancel each other out and give you a 180º surface. Put equal pressure on the top as well as the bottom of the glue up. Check to see if it is straight while in the clamps. If it isn't, likely when it comes out it won't be either. 

When you are clamping up, start from one end of the board and go to the other. You can adjust the surfaces to be flush as you go along. When it is flush clamp it hard and move onto the next one. A clamp every 8-10" is the way to go. I rarely use biscuits for flat glue ups. But for miters and other types of angles they work great.


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## johnv51 (Oct 27, 2008)

When gluing up boards to become panels or table tops or whatever the process I've found most effective at maintaining alignment is simple but seldom seen in magazines or video instruction. I start by edge gluing only 2 boards at a time. I apply a clamp to one end while ensuring the boards are aligned within a few inches of the first clamp. I move down the board and align the boards in the area around the second clamp. I continue down the length of the boards aligning as I clamp. This process will ensure the surface edges are aligned. I only clamp and glue one joint at a time. I then glue the sections together using the same process.


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

LeoG & JohnV51, you guys are the most in tune to what I'm doing, I think. After reading everything, I think maybe I should glue up 2 6" boards using biscuits, plane them when dry & then glue up 3 of those to make a 36" top, using the clamp & align method. Actually, I'm in the sheetmetal trade, and we call the machine everyone referred to a strokesander. We have one at work, but the only way we have to work the surface is a 6"x6" hand-held paddle. This might give the same effect, (wavy), as a belt sander. I did try a belt sander on the nightstand top. Didn't go too well....Anyways, thanks everyone for the resposes, and if there are any more please feel free to add your 2 cents....


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## jaros bros. (Feb 18, 2009)

With any sander, you can't stay in one spot, you have to keep moving. A trick for using a belt sander is to draw lines perpendicular to the boards and then sand until they all disappear. Keep it moving and don't ever try to stay in one spot to remove unevenness if you want to end up with a flat piece.


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## JEC559 (Jul 1, 2009)

I used all of these techniques when I made my table top. I used 2" wide boards and the porter cable biscuit joiner. For some reason I could not keep all of them perfectly flat so I used a handplane to take some off as well as a belt sander and then finished it off with an orbital sander.


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## Keith W (Jan 26, 2010)

I have used my router with a slot cutting bit to make tounge and groove joints to glue up table tops. Also, I have made what I think is called a loose tenon joint with my router. Make a mortise on both edges and slide a tenon (much like a biscut but thicker) the thickness of the mortise. Either method will align the boards for glue up and minimal sanding afterwards.


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## jlord (Feb 1, 2010)

TooPicky said:


> I'm looking to build a dining room table, and it has become clear that doing it with biscuits is not going to work. We're talking about 3' wide & 8' long, give or take. The main thing is I don't have acess to a planer that big, so after glue-up, the top has to be very flat already, enough to clean up with a random orbit sander. The equipment I do have is a 6" jointer, table saw, 12" planer, and router. Obviously, some type of interlocking joint is in order. Any thoughts?


You could run the top to a shop with a commercial size drum sander to smooth out your top. Shouldn't cost more than a few bucks. Then you could finish up with your orbital sander at home. I used to do this with glued up panels before I bought a Woodmaster drum sander.


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## ssgtrob2336 (Aug 23, 2009)

*I agree with WOODENTHINGS*

I think either a glue joint or lock miter type bit would get you the best joint with level faces. After that, you may have to break a sweat and use the ol' hand plane! Make sure it's tuned up well and SHARP and you should have success.


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

> I think either a glue joint or lock miter type bit would get you the best joint with level faces. After that, you may have to break a sweat and use the ol' hand plane! Make sure it's tuned up well and SHARP and you should have success.


I'm not going anywhere near a handplane. First, I don't own one, and second, I had terrible luck with them in high school......Could you point me in the direction of a lock miter or glue joint bit that will do a 2" top? Grizzly has some that will do no more than 1" or so, I'd hate to have to go back and clean up the other inch and risk the joint not coming together on the bottom half nicely.


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## ssgtrob2336 (Aug 23, 2009)

*oops!*

I don't know of one that can do a 2" thick. That's quite the beefy table top. You planning on butchering dinner on that?:laughing:


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

> I don't know of one that can do a 2" thick. That's quite the beefy table top. You planning on butchering dinner on that?


No, but for a 36 X 72 or so dining room table, 3/4" would seem like cheaping out. I want this thing to have some weight to it, and look like it does, too. (I know, "use 3/4" and edge it with a 2" band") Naaaa. There is a custom furniture company with a store near us called Pompanousac Mills, they make stuff like this, thick tabletops, heavy, very nice & VERY expensive. Check out their website.....


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## rubibo (Feb 6, 2010)

I remember the first dining table I ever made. I edge glued the planks and then tied to level the whole thing with a large, hand-held belt sander. Everything looked pretty good until I applied the finish and saw 1001 scallop marks. I ended up giving the table away at a garage sale. After that table, paying a local woodworking company $30 an hour to do my wide-belt sanding seemed like a bargain. A single dining table top should be done in about 1/2 hour. Later, I purchased a 37" Perrformax Supermax drum sander because I was doing a lot of table tops and carcase panels. That was a bit slower than the wide belt sander but the time saved by not having to outsource my sanding was worth it to me. Look in the yellow papes or YellowPages.com for local furniture or door manufacturing companies with a 36" or wider wide belt sander. I don't recommend a planer because of the risk of tear-out.


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

Ahh, I get it. People are not talking about a stroke sander, but a timesaver-type sander. I can see how that would work. Do those things keep the 2 faces parallel? I will hunt around town for a shop that has one. Thanks....


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Just like a planer but with sandpaper.


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## IdaCurt (Jan 5, 2010)

Glue it up and take it to a local cabinet shop.We help people from time to time with big projects like table tops.This saves you time and gives you a nice flat surface which would be very hard to do with hand tools.


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## cheese9988 (Jan 4, 2010)

I don't want to thread jack much, but I will be doing a similar project.

This may be a a shot in the dark. But if you can get the boards somewhat even, what do you think about renting a drum or a vibrating floor sander. They do an awesome job on evening floors, how well do you think it would do on a table top?

For a man who doesn't have a truck, would this be a viable option? Use the drum sander and make diagonal cuts until the top is even, then go with the grain? Or just use the vibrating sander? I imagine the worst part would be when the sander stops and makes large scratches.


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## TooPicky (Apr 12, 2009)

Creative idea, but I wouldn't. Most important reason being that they cost about $80 to rent at HD.


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## catfish (Feb 19, 2010)

*try a kreg jig*

i have made about 12 tables over the last year and use a kreg jig for all of them, the table tops have been any where from 3/4 to 1" thick and from 4' to 6' long and with a little of sanding with a 3 x 21 belt sander came out looking beautiful, i made a few out of pine and the rest out of oak. the kreg jig gives it a real good joint, i have used both, biscuit and kreg and i perfer the kreg joinery over biscuit.


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## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

Good advice from Pianoman!Itchy


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Just a thought on getting your table top reasonably flat. I built a work bench, ten feet by three feet, with a top made from rough sawn alder two by fours. There was a lot of uneveness, so I borrowed a trick from the router forum and made myself a jig that would allow me to run the router across the top on rails. I could also position the router lengthwise along the top. I made mine from an old execising machine, of the rowing type. It has a carriage with wheels that run on two tracks. With some modification I adapted it to hold my router. 

The end result was a top that could be sanded smooth with first a belt sander, and then a finish sander.

Gerry


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## Dejure (Sep 2, 2009)

*Splines*

I'm in Keith's camp - think about a spline joint using either your table saw and good feather boards, or use a spline bit for a router. Neither method would be affected by the thickness of the wood, unless you wanted splines at the top and bottom and your board thicknesses varied.

I've always had good luck with biscuits. My first joiner was a Lamello, then I got a Freud and I now have a Porter Cable. Each has performed well for setting up level surfaces, which was a primary reason for buying the first one. 

If using a biscuit machine, make sure you lift it and wipe away all sawdust before each cut.


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## Dejure (Sep 2, 2009)

*Drum sander*

I have a Clark floor drum sander and the problem with using it for this would be starting it. You want to always hit the ground running, so to speak. As such, you start moving, then drop the drum, to avoid allowing the drum to dig in at the start of the run.

From that, it should be obvious you have to start from both ends and run off the board.

The only way to get around the problem would be to have a starting and ending board to run on.

It'd be quick though.

If you do try this, stay with a fine grit to get the feel of a machine wholly capable of acting like a 12" planner running over a 36" surface.


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