# Topcoat for Minwax Polyshades?



## Lambshots (Apr 30, 2016)

I want to know if there is something I can use as a topcoat to further make my Kitchen Table top more durable? I started by doing a very good sanding with coarse sandpaper and working my way to a much finer grit. I didn’t pay very much for my Pub Height Table and 8 Chairs so I wasn’t looking to get it perfect.

I then cleaned all the dust and started applying Minwax Polyshades in Espresso Gloss. I let it dry for 24 hours and the next day I noticed a lot of dust and some bristles from the brush I used so I did a light sanding again and applies a second coat and let that dry overnight. I also ended up doing a 3rd coat as well. I know that Minwax Polyshades is supposed to be “all in one step”, but I still want to topcoat it.

Is there something I can use as a topcoat to make it more durable? And it almost has this plastic look to it and I know that if I were to put a glass on the table it would not slide due to the almost plastic like finish. As I said, I didn’t pay much for the set, but I do want to protect it. I have purchased (and not used yet) a quart of Helmsman Spar Urethane and a quart of Minwax Fast Drying Polyurethane. I am just looking for suggestions. I also read that it would be easier if these were thinned by 20% with Mineral Spirits for better application and leveling. I was also thinking about going with Minwax (water based) Polycrylic but I read that some people were experiencing cloudiness. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

Marg Jackman
Beginner at Wood Finishing


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Are the brush bristles still in the finish? If so that needs to be fixed before proceeding. Polyshades is a product like you mixed enamel paint and clear varnish together. It will give you the protection you wish but if you wish to put more protection on it without darkening it any further you can put a clear interior oil based polyurethane over the top. Just scuff sand the finish with 220 grit or finer paper and apply another coat. You don't want to put a spar varnish over the top. That finish is formulated for exterior wood and is not suitable for a table top. It's made soft to expand and contract with the weather extremes of being outdoors. You don't want to use the fast drying polyurethane either. It has strong solvents in it which would ruin the polyshades. The finish would wrinkle up like you put paint and varnish remover on it. There wouldn't be cloudiness with polycrylic, what would happen is it wouldn't properly adhere. You shouldn't ever put a waterborne finish over an oil based finish or vice versa. Once you start a finish with one type product you need to stay with the same type product.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

That plastic-like finish is pretty par for the course when it comes to polyurethane, because it is a plastic. Now, as it fully cures it does get a little harder and a little more slippy, but polyurethane also takes almost a month to fully cure. In the meantime, a coat of paste wax over the top does a fantastic job giving a smoother feel. 

As far as the durability goes, polyurethane is actually one of the more durable finishes you can apply, only really surpassed by conversion varnishes and catalyzed lacquers. The softness of polyurethane is actually a bit of a benefit, instead of something like the tip of a key digging in and chipping or gouging the finish, the poly kinda deforms around the key. Picture trying to scratch a car tire. Little drastic of an example, but it does the job.


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## Lambshots (Apr 30, 2016)

*Thanx for the speedy response *

Thank you Steve Neul and epicfail48 .... There are still some bristles in the table along with other marks that I just could not sand out because they were soo deep. As I said though, I didn't pay a lot for the set ..... Would you believe I only paid $43.00 for the entire set but since I have 3 coats of Polyshades on it now, it looks great as it is. Now I am wondering will I just leave it alone or give it another light sanding to get those brush bristles out and the small specks of dust, then wipe it really good and wait until the next day to apply another coat of Polyshades Espresso. By waiting until the next day, maybe all the dust will be settled and plus I think I will thin the Polyshades by 20% with Mineral Spirits for better application and leveling.

I am going to bring back the quart of Helmsman Spar Urethane and the quart of Minwax Fast Drying Polyurethane. I may just leave it at a 4th coat of the thinned Polyshades or I may just get a small can of regular Polyurethane or as suggested by epicfail48, purchase paste wax.

I will let you know how it goes 

Thanks again

Marg Jackman


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Polyshades as stated before is a tinted polyurethane. You coat the project with the Polyshades and it does the color coat along with the top coat at the same time. You need to be careful how you apply this because each coat you put on will make the project darker. And when you scuff sand (with 320 grit) you will be taking some of the color off. So it can be somewhat difficult to get a nice even shade across the whole project, even if you spray.

You can just use a normal polyurethane over the top. Make sure it's the same type, oil with oil, waterborne with waterborne. And make sure you lightly scuff all surfaces before you put the coat on. Polyurethane requires a physical connection to the previous coat.


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## Lambshots (Apr 30, 2016)

*To Leo G*

Thank you Leo G. I may just purchase a small can of just the regular Polyurethane (Oil), but I think I will still thin it by 20% for better application and leveling. My table is huge, so by the time I get 1/3 of it done and notice spots I missed, I ruin it by going over it again. I am hoping the little bit of thinning will help with that. I am after all just a novice at this so my application needs a lot of work lol.

Thank you

Marg Jackman:wink2:


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Thinning will make it dry quicker.


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## Lambshots (Apr 30, 2016)

*To Leo G*

What about thinning it by 10%? Would that help eliminate brush stroke marks? I don't mind the quicker drying time because after applying 3 coats already I have become faster at applying it, but I would love to know what ratio to thin it to.

Thanx

Marg :crying2:


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Sorry, couldn't really tell you. I spray all my coatings. But the more thinner you put in there the faster it would dry, but it will also level easier. It will also drool easier, so it's always a balance between leveling, drying and drooling.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Actually thinning polyurethane will make it dry slower. It would make it brush easier though but I wouldn't go 20%. When you over thin a finish it screws with the sheen making it uneven. I would thin it as little as possible for you to work it. The thing to remember about brushing a varnish is to use the softest brush you can find and apply it as thin as possible with as few strokes as possible. The more you brush any oil based finish the more it shows brush marks. It causes the finish to set up before it can properly flow out. Another product you can use to help the finish flow out is Flood Penetrol. If you have pronounced brush marks it may take a few thin coats sanding between coats to work them out. 

If the brush bristles in the finish bothers you, You could take an exacto knife and a straight edge and gently cut the finish over the bristle and with the sharp point pick it out. Then mask off the area around the cut and apply a few coats of the polyshades in the crevasse. When that is dry then you could remove the tape and sand the spot level and then scuff sand all of the table top and apply the clear topcoat.


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## Lambshots (Apr 30, 2016)

*To Steve Nuel and Leo G*

Thank you Guys for all of your advice. When I purchased the Espresso Polyshades, I purchased it in the "Gloss" finish, so that alone shows all the imperfections. When I return what I have now, I am going to purchase the "Semi-Gloss" Sheen. I will thin by 10%, but I may follow Steve Nuels's advice and fill in the crevices first with Polyshades surrounded by tape protection first, then let it dry and sand it.

Hopefully the last coat of Clear "Semi-Gloss" (thinned by 10% or even 5%) will help and not show as many imperfections. I don't want to go with "Satin Sheen" because I really like the glossy look. I don't know what the Satin Sheen looks like, and I do like the Pure Gloss Sheen, but I find it shows to much. I will not try anything else. It will be what it is lol. 

I will post pics or small video when I am done. Just remember this is the very first time I ever tried to do this :grin:

I am also planning on refinishing my coffee and end tables that were purchased from The Bombay Company years ago. This I will do outdoors when the weather is good.

Thanx
Marg Jackman


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Just be careful not to cut the finish all the way down to the wood. That will make a spot every bit as bad as the bristle. It just would have been better to get it out before coating over.


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## RandyReed (Jul 30, 2014)

Lambshots said:


> I want to know if there is something I can use as a topcoat to further make my Kitchen Table top more durable?
> Thank You
> 
> Marg Jackman
> Beginner at Wood Finishing


I suggest Arm-R-Seal in semi gloss for a kitchen table for people who are not spray applying the finish:

https://generalfinishes.com/retail-...oats/arm-r-seal-urethane-topcoat#.VydVPfkrJD8


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## Captnfun (May 26, 2017)

*Polyshades in dark colors*

I've used Polyshades in lighter colors before with good results but I'm doing a project now for someone with the Espresso Polyshades color and I am not excited about the results. With the darker colors it seems that the color doesn't flow evenly with the Polyurethane so I see some light spots in it. Didn't try thinning it because I thought I read that you are not supposed to thin the Polyshades stuff. I think next time I'll just use regular stain and topcoat with Poly since I'm now doing it 2 or 3 times anyway.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Captnfun said:


> I've used Polyshades in lighter colors before with good results but I'm doing a project now for someone with the Espresso Polyshades color and I am not excited about the results. With the darker colors it seems that the color doesn't flow evenly with the Polyurethane so I see some light spots in it. Didn't try thinning it because I thought I read that you are not supposed to thin the Polyshades stuff. I think next time I'll just use regular stain and topcoat with Poly since I'm now doing it 2 or 3 times anyway.


I don't care for Polyshades. It's more like thinning down enamel paint and using it for a finish. It has a pasty look to it I can't stand. If you want to use Polyshades it would help you get it more uniform if you would thin it with clear poly rather than thinner and apply more coats. By reducing the concentration of pigment it would be easier to get the finish more uniform.


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