# Dealing with Dust in a Garage Shop



## maskedbacon

Hi everyone,

I'd like your opinion on how to best handle dust in a garage hobby shop (that also doubles as a laundry room). One challenge is that I have to completely scrub the laundry area (and air) of dust when I'm not tinkering. Any thoughts on my set-up or how you've discovered safe dust management would be really appreciated.

I've read a lot about the ideal set-up -- with a dust collector, a Bill Pentz cyclone, and a powered respirator, but I'm not in a place where I'm willing to put that kind of money down. 

Before getting more serious about the dust situation, I was wearing a 3M half-mask with P100 filters when doing any sanding, but took the mask off for cutting or when most of the visible floating dust disappeared. But that resulted in minor lung congestion, throat irritation, and a little wheezing in the days following, and did some research about the long-term health hazards (which are real and kind of scary). Then I realized how much dust was blowing into the house, and that wasn't too cool either. So what seemed like a fun hobby turned into a potentially expensive and dangerous thing, and I'm trying to figure out what to do with it.

My current thoughts are to keep the garage door open and have an air mover push out as much bad air as possible when working (I have the Rigid 1650 CFM blower), and always wear a P100 half mask when in the garage. Then shop-vac any large particles I can find once I'm done cutting, and leave the air mover on for a good hour to get anything else out that it can. I also just purchased a Winix 5500 HEPA air purifier to run once I'm in the purging stage of the process. I'd also have a second air purifier in the front room of the house and a third in the room connected to the garage.

I've spent hours and hours researching shop air filters, and common advice seems to be go big or give up (and just wear a mask). Most furnace filters are not rated below 1 micron, so cheap homemade set-ups seem like they are helping (due to large particle collection) but they aren't getting everything. The good furnace filters are super expensive, and the best set-up (ala Bill Pentz) costs $180 for the tube filter alone.

What surprises me is that I haven't seen much in regard to wood-workers using commercial HEPA purifiers. Many HEPA purifiers are rated down to 0.5 microns, so that should take care of the worst stuff, right? And a model like the Winix will handle purification for rooms up to 350 square feet and the whole unit is just $130. I can understand how they might not be heavy duty enough for when dust is flying while you are working, but if you are using it to purify the air before and after being in the shop I can't see why it would be a bad idea. 

I'm also thinking that any sanding will be done far away from the house, in a completely open area with a P100 mask. I've read about how that dust is the most dangerous and I'd rather not even deal with collecting it if I can help it.

So what do you think of this plan? Any suggestions that won't break the bank?

Thanks!
David


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## jdonhowe

It looks as though you've thought this through. It's not clear- beyond sanding- what sorts of dust you're making, and with what tools.

A couple of suggestions:
1) Keep wearing your respirator mask! A nuisance, but IMO the best guard of your health.

2) Collect as much dust as reasonable at the source: shop vac connected to sander; large dust collection port near sander, or sanding table (perforated downdraft board).

3) Get a box-type air cleaner (Delta, Jet, Grizzly, etc.) with HEPA filter equivalent- look on CL. I run mine whenever creating dust, and about 30 minutes after. The box fan/air filter alternative will trap large particles, but will end up dispersing the smaller dangerous ones.

4) If possible, get a HEPA filter for your shop vac. Otherwise, when you clean up, you're just recirculating small particles.

5) Bill Pentz makes some compelling arguments regarding health risks and his cyclone design as part of a powerful DC system, but many (including me) can't afford the expense or space for a big DC system. I think a reasonable compromise is a Thien separator with a dust collector (again, check out CL for a DC), and upgrade with a Wynn nanofilter. With a good filter on your DC, you don't have to rely on a Pentz cyclone to capture all the small particles.

6) If your garage layout allows, think about closing off your shop area- at least while working- with movable partitions or tarps, to limit dust spread. It might make the laundry room clean up easier.

7) The Winix looks like a reasonable addition for final air clean up, it could be overwhelmed. I had a similar notion, and tried using an old portable electrostatic room air cleaner. It would clog up quickly with dust, and after a short time, the motor seized from dust in the bearings. You might want to add slap a furnace filter in front of the intake to trap larger dust particles. I think maybe residential HEPA air cleaners aren't used much is that they don't have the capacity, either air flow- or filter area- wise to keep up with typical shop dust collection. 

8) As you plan, have the garage door open as much as possible. Certainly, sanding in the great outdoors can be pleasant, but can also be a nuisance. Your choice.

good luck. just my .02


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## mako1

Down and dirty solution that I used 40 years ago when starting in the garage.Find a hvac guy.Maybe you know one.Get a couples old furnace squirrel cage fans.They move lots of air quick.Build a cheap plywood box for them and make a frame on the front that will accept a furnace filter.Plugin and go.There is a green type of filter they sell in a roll that can be bought by the foot.Cut to fit.All you need to do when it gets dirty is blow it out or wash with the garden hose.Slip back in and go.
You can even get fancy and put in a switch.You can get a lot of these fans for free and use scrap wood to build the box.


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## maskedbacon

Thanks for the replies, guys!

jdonhowe - I've been thinking about a filter for my vacuum. I have the Rigid 14 gallon, and this filter http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-5-Layer-Allergen-Filter-VF6000/100022800?keyword=vf6000 is called a HEPA filter but if you read the description it also says "Filter made with HEPA-rated material but does not meet EPA or RRP guidelines for certified HEPA filtration". Thanks a lot, Rigid. 

Are there alternative filters you would suggest? Alternatively, do they make < 0.5 micron filter bags similar to dust collector bags that you could put on the vacuum's exhaust port? What's the best way to seal off a vacuum?

The Wynn nanofilter is what I was looking at for $180. Maybe down the road I'll build one of those filter towers, but I'm feeling a little skiddish right now about all the new costs I didn't consider initially. (I'd still have to buy the motor and other parts... I imagine it'd cost $400 when everything is said and done).

Also, it's probably not a bad idea to get some plastic sheeting to cover the laundry area when working in the shop. I couldn't permanently seal it off but then again I wouldn't really want to because it'd look like a meth lab. Maybe I could set up some kind of retractable roll.

Adding a cheap furnace pre-filter to the HEPA purifier is a pretty good idea, I'll definitely try that.


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## difalkner

If you use a separator for the laundry area and choose plastic, be aware that most plastic sheeting material holds the static and may actually collect the dust. While collecting it may be a good thing because it keeps that particular dust out of your lungs, it also is quite messy when you take it down or brush up against it. Cloth has its own set of issues because the threads hold dust, as well.

I don't really have a solution because I haven't tried to do what you need but just tossing this out as a reminder.


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## epicfail48

Best way to keep IIT from spreading is to collect it at the source. That should cut down a lot. Usual suspects, dust collector, hookups on the tools, etc. As far as scrubbing the remaining fine dust from the air, there are commercial air scrubbers, by I like my down and dirty method. Before, however, I want to stress something to keep people off my back:

I pitch this as an option. I do not recommend it, nor do I make claims to how well this method works. This method will not cure cancer, nor grant eternal life. This method is a down and dirty way that has worked well enough for me in my particular case. 

Anyway, get yourself a couple box fans, more the merrier. Think walmart has a 20x20 pretty cheap. Get some 20x20 furnace filters, the good ones. Tape the furnace filter to the inlet side. Turn on high, let run. Quick, dirty, surprisingly cheap, ad really, who doesn't already have a few box fans?


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## jdonhowe

The Ridgid VF6000 filter was what I had in mind. I'm also frustrated by Ridgid's weasling about HEPA. I don't know what all is involved in having something HEPA certified, but for me, even if not exactly HEPA, if the filter indeed filters down to 0.3 microns, it sounds pretty good to me.

In going that route, I'd recommend adding a pre-separator, either homemade (e.g. Thien separator) or bought. I got a Dust Deputy that I use with my Ridgid shop vac, and it really does remove almost all of the dust, tremendously reducing how often I need to clean the shop vac filter.

There's no getting around the fact that dust collection is basically a PIA- it's expensive, noisy, gets in the way, and just not very exciting or fun. Also, the most important dust is the stuff you can't even see. I just see it as part of the overhead of this hobby, and do what I can within reason to keep dust under control.

BTW:


> then again I wouldn't really want to because it'd look like a meth lab.


 lol :laughing:


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## GeorgeC

I garage is my shop. The part closest to the kitchen is the laundry room.

I deal with the dust with a lawn/leaf blower. After work I thoroughly blow out the entire area.

Does that entirely clean it? Obviously not. Is it adequate? Yes, for me.

George


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## TimPa

mako1 said:


> Down and dirty solution that I used 40 years ago when starting in the garage.Find a hvac guy.Maybe you know one.Get a couples old furnace squirrel cage fans.They move lots of air quick.Build a cheap plywood box for them and make a frame on the front that will accept a furnace filter.Plugin and go.There is a green type of filter they sell in a roll that can be bought by the foot.Cut to fit.All you need to do when it gets dirty is blow it out or wash with the garden hose.Slip back in and go.
> You can even get fancy and put in a switch.You can get a lot of these fans for free and use scrap wood to build the box.


+1. this will work great for the air cleaning. other than a respirator, if you do one thing, do something like this or buy one, to clean the air you breathe. you can always sweep up wood chips/sawdust, but the air is important.


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## maskedbacon

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

I think what I'll do in the short term is get the HEPA filter for my vacuum as well as filter bags, and strap a cheap furnace pre-filter to the Winix for post-work air scrubbing. When I have time I'll build a garbage can cyclone (http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm). I think I'll also hang some box fans with cheap furnace filters and see if they'll help.

The Oneida cyclones seem very reasonably priced, so we'll see how the garbage can performs before I shell out some more money.


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## maskedbacon

By the way, as an alternative to the squirrel cage fan box, what about putting a small air mover into a box instead? Like http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-65570...UTF8&qid=1411590008&sr=1-2&keywords=air+mover

It seems to be cheaper to get a high CFM air mover than an inline fan or squirrel fan of the same specs.


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## jdonhowe

> By the way, as an alternative to the squirrel cage fan box, what about putting a small air mover into a box instead? Like http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-655704...ords=air+mover


I'm not sure this is a practical or economical solution. It seems to be designed for portable use, such as drying out wet carpeting. From the few specs I could find, it offers pretty wimpy performance: 350 cfm, and a 1/16 hp motor http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329632_200329632

Also, connecting it in a box to get efficient air flow looks like a lot of work.

I think your money would be better spent by saving for a dedicated air cleaner. For example, I was able to find (with patience) a Delta 50-860 air cleaner for $60 about 2 years ago on CL.

Alternatively, you could get the box/furnace filter setup, with better air flow and easier setup, for a lot less money and work. Or, a comparably priced squirrel fan blower should give a lot better performance, and easier hookup in a box.

JMHO.


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## maskedbacon

Where can you find cheap squirrel fans? I looked at craigslist (I'm in San Diego) and I'm not seeing much. Ebay has them with less CFM and less HP than that air mover (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dayton-Mode...059?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23313a2343) for more money.


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## fivecodys

I have the same issues that you have.
My garage/shop houses the washer/dryer and gas fired water heater.

I use a Jet DC1100 that connects to almost every tool.
That takes care of the small to medium chips and dust.
The fine dust was still an issue.

I opened the roll up door about a foot and prop open the man door all the way. I bought a 24" metal cage fan from Costco and I sit it in the doorway (aiming outside) and run it full blast.
I usually have a slight breeze anyway but this helps pull the fine dust out of the garage. It's tough in the winter but it seems to do the job.

I do have plans to make a box fan filter like the others have mentioned. I also like the idea of a down draft table for sanding and I have seen several of them in the magazines. They seem simple enough to build.

Bill


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## GeorgeC

Fine dust is always going to be a problem in a garage layout. Our washer and dryer are, like many others, also in the garage. For many, many years I have thought of enclosing that area.

My wife puts the cloths in the washer and directly into the dryer. From there directly into the house. Clean cloths, bedding, whatever never tough any surface in the garage. Therefore no problem. She would certainly let me know if there was a problem.

George


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## TimPa

maskedbacon said:


> Where can you find cheap squirrel fans? I looked at craigslist (I'm in San Diego) and I'm not seeing much. Ebay has them with less CFM and less HP than that air mover (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dayton-Mode...059?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23313a2343) for more money.


contact your local hvac repair/sales shop. they often tear out equipment that have them in. they may give them to you or charge very little.


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## woodnthings

*there is fine airborne dust, sawdust and chips...*

There are 3 types of "dust" and each requires a different collection method. Collect as much dust right off the cutter or blade as possible using a high velocity shop vacuum. What ever doesn't get sucked away ....smaller dust particles and larger chips and shavings, will require a dust collector, floor mounted or on casters. This is a high volume collector with less velocity.

Small little blowers and HEPA filters don't really suit a woodworking shop application, since there is not enough volume and they will clog almost immediately.

The best dust collector filters are the cannister type because they allow more air flow and have a greater surface area. You can draw a lot of air into a system but then it needs to escape and the surface area of a cannister will allow that. A pre-separator will help to keep the filter clear longer. The Thein baffle and cyclone separators are very effective when used in line with your dust collector or shop vac.

What ever didn't get collected by the previous methods is now considered "airborne" and must be filtered out of the shop air using an air filtration unit... either shop built or a commercial unit like a Jet ASF 1000B:
http://www.amazon.com/708620B-AFS-1000B-Filtration-Electrostatic-Pre-Filter/dp/B00004R9LO

Jointers and planers make larger chips and shavings which will clog a small diameter hose or shop vac very quickly. The larger the DEC hose the better the airflow and the less probability of clogging. Ribbed DC hose is not very efficient and reduces air flow, so it should be kept to a minimum. 

Sanding dust from hand sanders and especially drum sanders requires a large filter or a pre-separator. 
To some extent air flow dynamics is usually beyond the ability the small shop owner, so the more scientific solutions may be confusing. Bill Pentz is "the source" for the scientific approach. Others like myself just sort of wing it and use common sense, keeping runs as short as possible and minimizing 90 degree bends in the pipe. My DC units are on wheels and I move them to the machines I am using. I use a "quick coupler" to make connections a matter of seconds.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/dust-collection-woodnthings-shop-part-1-a-20273/


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## maskedbacon

After a lot of contemplation and equipment expenses, my solution ended up being this -- don't cut or sand in the garage 

I bought a 6 hp shop vac and Oneida Dust Deputy, 1600 cfm air mover, extension cord, and a 12x12 foot collapse-able canopy to set up just outside my garage door. I grab the tools I need and shut the door onto the extension cord, and set the air mover to blow the sawdust towards the street. The dust deputy catches what it can directly from the tool, and I wear a 3M 7000-series respirator with P100 filters whenever I'm cutting or sanding. 

It really came down to the fact that I've grown asthmatic to cedar (even in tiny quantities). I'd rather not be afraid of my garage or have to spend additional hundreds if not thousands on air filtration. So until / unless I get real serious and the needs make sense financially, this route seems to work for me!

And thanks again for all of the thoughtful responses from everyone. It's really been a help.


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## gdub916

I'm attempting to build a Thein Cyclone based on forum member Kenbo's plan per the video at this site:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/forget-dust-deputy-27235/

The only items I'm missing are the two vacuum attachments that Kenbo mentions. I've check around on the net and in stores and no luck. Wonder if you folks have any idea where to purchase them?

Here is the post from back in 2011 by Kenbo:

At this stage in the process, it was time for me to add the [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]vacuum[/COLOR][/COLOR] attachments that would accept the hoses from my shop vac. Using some 1/2", #8 screws and some #10 flat washers, I measured, marked and secured both pieces.
IMG_8634.jpg

Here is a picture of the attachments. Any advice is appreciates!


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## Woodford

Tired of the shop vac and upgrading to a real DC. Heard about the thien separator, came across this post and many others and good Lord! these homemade separators are very impressive... def building one of these, another project added to the ever growing list!


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## ORBlackFZ1

gdub916 said:


> The only items I'm missing are the two vacuum attachments that Kenbo mentions. I've check around on the net and in stores and no luck. Wonder if you folks have any idea where to purchase them?


They are usually called "dust ports".

Have you tried Rockler?
(http://www.rockler.com/2-1-2-dust-port)
(http://www.rockler.com/universal-dust-port)

Here is the connectors for 4" hose:
(http://www.rockler.com/dust-right-4-dust-separator-components)

How about Woodcraft?
(http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/150757/2-12-Flanged-Inlet-Fitting.aspx)
(http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/85O13/2-12-Router-Fence-Dust-Extraction-Fitting.aspx)

Here is the connectors for 4" hose:
(http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/144654/4-Universal-Fitting.aspx)

If those references don't work for you try a Google search with "dust port".

Eric


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## ORBlackFZ1

Woodford said:


> Tired of the shop vac and upgrading to a real DC. Heard about the thien separator, came across this post and many others and good Lord! these homemade separators are very impressive... def building one of these, another project added to the ever growing list!


Check out my journey of improving dust collection:

(http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/pipe-diameter-vs-performance-59625/)

It might give you some ideas and save you some headaches.

Eric


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## Noek

Op - like you, I use my garage, but not so much as a shop but more of a storage area for my equipment. Everything is on mobile stands, my bandsaw, planer, table saw, jointer, scroll sanderr, mitre saw.,etc. I have a vacmaster shop vac and a 1hp dc unit with hepa filter. I move whatever piece of equipment I'm using out of the garage and that is where I do my work. 

It is a pain and extra work but I don't want the dust and mess in the garage and I can still park two cars in it. If I had a dedicated shop, I would give more consideration to a more functional dust collection system but for now, I do my work in my driveway.


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