# I Hate....



## ghost5 (Aug 19, 2012)

this new bowl gouge. I can do 5x the work in far less time with my carbides and do it cleaner. What a waste of $. :thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## Ken E. (Nov 8, 2012)

ghost5 said:


> this new bowl gouge. I can do 5x the work in far less time with my carbides and do it cleaner. What a waste of $. :thumbdown::thumbdown:


What's the specs of that gouge? I.e. brand, size, shape etc.

S.D.G.


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## RusDemka (Jun 9, 2012)

ghost5 said:


> this new bowl gouge. I can do 5x the work in far less time with my carbides and do it cleaner. What a waste of $. :thumbdown::thumbdown:


 
its takes getting used to, i purchased a Sorby 3/8 bowl gouge and cant get the correct way to use it and tend to go back to the carbides, but i still want to learn the correct way to use the gouge though..


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Gives a little more appreciation for those who don't use the carbide cutter/Easy Tools, huh? Learning to use a bowl gouge takes practice. Learning the correct sharpening angles for the specific task, the proper way to present the tool to the wood all take practice. Watch videos, get with an experienced turner or take a class. It will help with your frustration and you won't keep having to buying carbide cutters.


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

It takes practice, practice practice. I can remove wood much faster with my bowl gouge and it leaves a cleaner finish. I do own an Easywoodtool and a whole bunch of Hunter tools. They are nice. Lately I've been switching back and forth when roughing to see if there's any advantage and to me there isn't. the bowl gouge is better. 
I can see how the Easywoodtool and the Hunter Hercules would be easier for a new person to handle because there isn't any learning curve. Or at least not much. 
However learning to sharpen and use a bowl gouge is worth the effort. Your forms will be better with smoother arcs, you'll have to sand less so your fine details will be crisper and there's nothing more fun than watching the shavings fly off a green bowl from a bowl gouge. Oh and did I mention the shaving don't fly back in your face. My friend jokingly says the Easywoodtools are the only tools that need a windshield.


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## ghost5 (Aug 19, 2012)

Ken I won't post a brand since I am sick of the tool police telling me I didn't spend enough or it isn't the right brand or whatever they can think to belittle what I bought. In fact I just left another forum for pretty much that reason. 

Dema, Saw, I know there is a learning curve and I have been watching some good vids on how to but this is too touchy for me. By the time I take the time to learn it I could have turned no telling how many things. 

I will keep at it but for now it


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## john lucas (Sep 18, 2007)

I see your in Middle Tennessee. come see me. I live in Baxter, TN. IN fact you should come to the Tenneessee Woodturner meeting tonight because David Sapp is going to be discussing how to use all the various tools for clean cutting. He is the owner of the woodcraft store in Franklin and very knowledgeable about all the tools. I have plans to be there if nothing goes wrong. 
http://tnwoodturners.org/
I don't want to put anyone down for using scrapers. It's all about the finished piece, not how you got there. In fact it's really about having fun doing this whether you turn out any work or not. 
However those of us who have been there know how much more fun it is when you use the right tool for the job correctly and that's why we push the bowl gouge.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

ghost5 said:


> ... the tool police telling me I didn't spend enough or it isn't the right brand or whatever they can think to belittle what I bought.


Honestly, I don't think that would be tolerated here.

Sure, there are people who insist you should "buy the best", but it's completely safe to ignore them if you choose, and there are usually folks around who argue back at them.

Personally, I have several Benjamins Best gouges and scrapers (the HSS ones from PennState Industries), a whole bunch of second-hand Craftsman tools that I bought second hand off eBay and Craigslist very cheap (both HSS and even older carbon steel).

Once I'd taken a class in bowl turning, and been shown how to use a bowl gouge, I felt confident enough to get one of Doug Thompson's gouges.

I don't regret for one minute buying cheap tools. It meant I wasn't afraid to apply the grinder and see dollars vanishing in sparks.

I don't regret buying a Harbor Freight lathe, either. Now I have a better one, but that was enough to get me started and see which way I wanted to go with turning. And even though I bought another lathe, I still use that HF lathe for some things -- it handles longer spindles than my newer one.

Don't let them get to you.


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

ps ... don't think twice about taking up John on his offer ... if it weren't such a long drive from here, I'd be with you in a heartbeat!!!


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## ghost5 (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks for the invite John but I lost my job last week and my truck is sitting in the shop with a blown motor which they seem in no hurry to fix. My only vehicle. Might get up your way at some point but it is still a pretty good drive takes me an hour to get to Lebanon to head your way. 

Duncuss, thanks I buy what I want when I can and what I can afford. I left the other forum when I posted a handle I turned and immediately got, It is too short, It doesn't have a ferrule, go back and change this or you will die. All i could do to keep from telling them where to place all their tools. :yes:


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## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

duncsuss said:


> ps ... don't think twice about taking up John on his offer ... if it weren't such a long drive from here, I'd be with you in a heartbeat!!!


I'm as stubborn as they come when it comes to figuring something out myself vs getting help, but there are SO many variables you are dealing with learning to use a gouge. A lesson with someone of John's caliber will save you a lot of unnecessary frustration. 

As for tool quality, I believe the difference between a $25 BB gouge and a $100 Crown gouge is negligible for a novice turner, myself included. Carbides have there place but personally I get far more enjoyment from a good sharp gouge now that I have some confidence with it. Everybody's different though so do what's fun for you. And don't get mad and throw your gouge across the shop! It can penetrate a steel door! (Don't ask.)


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## Bonanza35 (Jan 20, 2011)

Bonanza35 said:


> A lesson with someone of John's caliber will save you a lot of unnecessary frustration.
> )


I didn't see your last post. Sorry, I know you have transportation issues right now.


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

I felt the same way. I got a Benjamin's best 5/8" bowl gouge and absolute hate it. I've used it for maybe an hour in the past year. That was my first bowl gouge and I though all were like that. But I was given a set of crown bowl gouges. It had 3, a 3/8, 1/2, and 5/8 and I love them. The grind and angle of the tip is completely different than the Benjamin's Best. I feel as they are 2 completely different tools. 

I don't mean to put down the Benjamin's best. It just isn't the tool for me.


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## RusDemka (Jun 9, 2012)

ghost5 said:


> .... I left the other forum when I posted a handle I turned and immediately got, It is too short, It doesn't have a ferrule, go back and change this or you will die. All i could do to tell them where to place all their tools. :yes:


 
 you wont get none of that  here, i have posted some stupid questions and have always recieved good input and never any critisizm.. :thumbsup:


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

BigJoe16 said:


> The grind and angle of the tip is completely different than the Benjamin's Best. I feel as they are 2 completely different tools.


Then change the grind angle of your Benjamin's Best gouge to match the angle you like ... it's not rocket surgery :laughing:


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## Wooduse (Jan 17, 2011)

I bought an Ellsworth bowl gouge and it scared me to death. I put it down, mad that I had spent so much money on a tool I could not use. I then went to YouTube. After about 6 months of videos, I figured it out. Went back to the shop, grabbed that bowl gouge and went to work. It is basically all I use now. I am 36 and have only been turning for a few years. I started with a Benjamin's Best set. It worked well and I still use some of them. It is not about the tools, it is about the finished piece. Keep at it. You will figure it out.


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## jgilfor (Jan 25, 2013)

Gotta agree with what others have said here. There is no question that a well sharpened bowl gouge will give you a cleaner finish and can hog wood just as fast as any carbide tool out there!

I started with EWT. Have many carbide tools that I've made myself. Use them all the time, because they are fun, and don't need to be resharpened. But, when the day is done, I grab my Doug Thompson 1/2" V-flute or it's U-flute brother to put the finishing touches on most of my work. I have a bunch of Ben's Best tools too, and use them all the time. I really like to use them to xperiment with different grinds, as it doesn't cost me as much as using the Thompson tools for that. I have one of my PSI gouges ground to a classical shape at about 50 degrees. I use that for down in the bottom of deeper bowls and larger boxes. Works like a charm.
Just gotta' practice, practice, practice; watch a video, ask a friend, then practice some more.


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## robert421960 (Dec 9, 2010)

dont give up the ghost man :laughing::laughing::laughing:
i couldnt resist
i have 5 carbide tools but since i have gotten used to my bowl gouge i use it always instead of the carbide tools.
it does have a learning curve and i had to watch someone else use one before i figured it out
expensive or cheap tools sharp is the key


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## IVANHO (Oct 27, 2012)

In the last 50 years that I have been turning there has been a vast improvement in tools and the steel they are made out of. I do own carbon steel, HSS steel, powdered steel and carbides. They all have their place. That said I can get a much smoother continuous curve with my bowl gouges then I ever can with a carbide. A little practice goes a long way. As a side note I have never bought or even have seen a commercial wooden handled tool without a ferrule, safety issue!!!!!!!!! None of us are too old to learn something and constructive criticism is a wonderful and welcome thing. One of the reasons I sometimes post a pix of my work. Criticism makes me a much better turner which is why I belong to turning clubs and submit work to galleries and shows.


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## Horatio (Apr 4, 2012)

I have found the same thing but in my case, it probably has to do with sharpening. I got a Wood River (Woodcraft) bowl gouge and I need to work with some different sharpening angles. 

As others have said, there's much less learning curve to carbides, you point and go and that's more or less what I do but my work suffers from not being able to get a full assortment of different cuts and angles. 

But, like anything else woodworking, it takes time, patience and a certain level of stubbornness to keep after it.


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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

duncsuss said:


> ps ... don't think twice about taking up John on his offer ... if it weren't such a long drive from here, I'd be with you in a heartbeat!!!


I'd make a road trip if you want to....
I'd love to spend time with Dr. Lucas PHD in woodturning .......


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## John Voloudakis (Dec 19, 2012)

Bonanza35 said:


> As for tool quality, I believe the difference between a $25 BB gouge and a $100 Crown gouge is negligible for a novice turner, myself included. Carbides have there place but personally I get far more enjoyment from a good sharp gouge now that I have some confidence with it. Everybody's different though so do what's fun for you. And don't get mad and throw your gouge across the shop! It can penetrate a steel door! (Don't ask.)


Actually, as a novice sharpener (not turner), you're almost better off with the cheap tools. You can practice getting a good edge, playing with different shapes, etc. without grinding away an expensive tool. Any cheap tool will cut just as well as the 'name brand' ones if you keep it sharp. The difference in most of the expensive ones is the type of steel used, which holds an edge longer. This means less sharpening, and longer-lasting tools. I still use a BB bowl gouge and some old craftsman tools I got with my 1st lathe right alongside my nice Thompson tools. 

-John


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## jgilfor (Jan 25, 2013)

Absolutely John. Like I said earlier, use the BB gouges to practice and decide which grind you like the best and for which purposes. At $15 to $30 each, using the steel up is not a great loss.

One of the "old timers" at our local chapter of the AAW recommends practicing sharpening using a piece of drill rod. You can get a 48 inch length for 5 or 10 bucks. Can't use them to turn, but the practice sharpening is invaluable if you spare the time. If you ruin the grind, who cares?


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## duncsuss (Aug 21, 2009)

John Voloudakis said:


> You can practice getting a good edge, playing with different shapes, etc. without grinding away an expensive tool.


Exactly what I was saying :thumbsup:


> I still use a BB bowl gouge and some old craftsman tools I got with my 1st lathe right alongside my nice Thompson tools.


Looks like we have a Boston area chapter of the "use what you can get at the right price" club, with you south of the city and me north :laughing:


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