# Hand plane mysteries



## Theguywithallthe?s (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm new to woodworking. I've been working hard to get better but theres something that keeps coming up that makes me go crazy. I'll be planning a board and getting consistent nice shaving then, either after taking a break or just all of sudden, the plane stops cutting. I check my settings, blade still feels sharp, everything seems ok, but it wont cut. Sometimes it catches then I lose the cut, sometimes all it does is chatter, sometimes it feels like the blade is dull but its not. This happens whether the section of wood is flat or uneven and when this problem happens only about 15 percent of my effort actually pulls shavings. I'm tortured by this. To see a usefull tool become useless for no apparent reason, then the next day it works enough to finish the job. Whats going on? I use older stanleys with mostly flat soles. Sometimes only my number 6 cuts, or only my number 4 or block plane cuts, i work the problem for a couple of hours, flip out then the next day theres peace and i go back to work. It has to be the plane because I never have this trouble with my lee valley shoulder plane but then again I'm still new?


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Sounds to me like your blades aren't as sharp as you think. Feels sharp ain't a particularly accurate indication that they are sharp.

What's your sharpening method? The irons don't stay sharp for ever... I typically touch them up before each day's use.

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


----------



## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Welcome to the forum, t-guy.

When you say the planes stop cutting, are they skimming along with no shavings, or, are the blades digging in and you can't push them?


----------



## Theguywithallthe?s (Oct 13, 2011)

Wow. It's been about a week since I've sharpened. I cant beleive I got that caught up in everything that I never noticed how much I wasn't sharpening. I use a honing guide and take the scary sharp route but I go to red rouge from 600 on the secondary bevel. Guess I'll be sharpening more often.


----------



## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

I will sharpen, or at least touch up, after a couple hours.


----------



## Theguywithallthe?s (Oct 13, 2011)

Brink said:


> Welcome to the forum, t-guy.
> 
> When you say the planes stop cutting, are they skimming along with no shavings, or, are the blades digging in and you can't push them?


 I know now I need to sharpen more but when I tried going over some painted white oak boards with my plane it just skimmed along no matter how aggressive set the blade. The most I got was paint dust. Its what usually happens but in between all that effort are random good shavings which throws me off.


----------



## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds like a combination of dull blades, and the board being a concave.

On a warped board, the very front of the toe, and the rear edge of the heel make contact, the blade sorta hangs there doing nothing.

Of course the blade should cut. Dust is from being dull.


----------



## Theguywithallthe?s (Oct 13, 2011)

Just resharpened my number 6 blade, its working great. Tom and Brink thank you for clearing that up for me.


----------



## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Just a thought. A while ago, I had a problem with similar sympoms. I had sharpened the iron at to sharp of angle as a result the bevel rode along the board not allowing the edge to cut. I more carefully rebeveled the iron and no longer have the problem.


----------



## Theguywithallthe?s (Oct 13, 2011)

Wrangler said:


> Just a thought. A while ago, I had a problem with similar sympoms. I had sharpened the iron at to sharp of angle as a result the bevel rode along the board not allowing the edge to cut. I more carefully rebeveled the iron and no longer have the problem.


Just curious, what angle did you use when it didn't cut?


----------



## Possumpoint (Oct 13, 2011)

For what it's worth, I use the scary sharp method on irons and chisels. After grinding on a slow speed grinder, grits in 10 steps from 150 to 2000 are used. Use to go to 2500 but found little advantage in doing so. 

A quick test for sharpnes used by some is putting the edge on a finger nail. If it digs in good, if it skates re-sharpen. My measure of sharp enough is if the iron will shave the hair off the back of my arm painlessly and the back adjacent to the edge is polished to a mirror finish. I was taught not to use micro bevels except in cases where the iron/chisel are so pitted on the back side to be useless otherwise.

Plane Irons have different profiles. For example there is a noticable crown put by some people on a #5 plane iron. This does two things, prevents dig in at the corners and aids in stock removal. I seen where some people advocate putting a slight crown in a jointer iron. I don't go there.


----------



## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

Theguywithallthe?s said:


> Just curious, what angle did you use when it didn't cut?


I have no idea. The iron is from a 16" long transition plane that I was grinding freehand to a radical arc so I could use that plane as a Fore Plane.


----------



## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

Brink said:


> Sounds like a combination of dull blades, and the board being a concave.
> 
> On a warped board, the very front of the toe, and the rear edge of the heel make contact, the blade sorta hangs there doing nothing.


To the OP - if you have a cup in the board it works best to plane across the width of the board, usually at about a 45 to knock the cup down to flatten rather than planing lengthwise. It also helps to draw a bunch of pencil marks so you can see what you are removing and where your high spots are.

I'm not very motivated at work so I drew this to illustrate planing a cupped board. The curve is overly accentuated for graphic effect.


----------



## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Theguywithallthe?s said:


> I'm new to woodworking. I've been working hard to get better but theres something that keeps coming up that makes me go crazy. I'll be planning a board and getting consistent nice shaving then, either after taking a break or just all of sudden, the plane stops cutting. I check my settings, blade still feels sharp, everything seems ok, but it wont cut. Sometimes it catches then I lose the cut, sometimes all it does is chatter, sometimes it feels like the blade is dull but its not. This happens whether the section of wood is flat or uneven and when this problem happens only about 15 percent of my effort actually pulls shavings. I'm tortured by this. To see a usefull tool become useless for no apparent reason, then the next day it works enough to finish the job. Whats going on? I use older stanleys with mostly flat soles. Sometimes only my number 6 cuts, or only my number 4 or block plane cuts, i work the problem for a couple of hours, flip out then the next day theres peace and i go back to work. It has to be the plane because I never have this trouble with my lee valley shoulder plane but then again I'm still new?


What make and model hand plane are you using?


----------



## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

When you adjust the blades depth of cut, do it on the down stroke on the adjustment knob. There is always a little slack between up and down since the pin doesn't fit the blade slot tightly and the blade will move if the blade is adjusted on the up stroke. If you are planing a painted board, expect the blade to remain sharp for 3 or 4 strokes. The difference between a just right depth adjustment and too little or too much can be just a breaths worth of pressure on the adjustment knob.


----------



## Theguywithallthe?s (Oct 13, 2011)

WillemJM said:


> What make and model hand plane are you using?


All my planes are older stanleys, a no 4, 5, 6, and 60 1/2, no clue on the dates.


----------



## Theguywithallthe?s (Oct 13, 2011)

Hammer1 said:


> When you adjust the blades depth of cut, do it on the down stroke on the adjustment knob. There is always a little slack between up and down since the pin doesn't fit the blade slot tightly and the blade will move if the blade is adjusted on the up stroke. If you are planing a painted board, expect the blade to remain sharp for 3 or 4 strokes. The difference between a just right depth adjustment and too little or too much can be just a breaths worth of pressure on the adjustment knob.


Why is paint that hard on a blade? That reminds me. While I'm planing sometimes I feel a slight vinbration on the blade and chip breaker set even though Im getting shavings. Is the blade getting dull or should I be tightening my lever cap or?


----------



## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Theguywithallthe?s said:


> Why is paint that hard on a blade? That reminds me. While I'm planing sometimes I feel a slight vinbration on the blade and chip breaker set even though Im getting shavings. Is the blade getting dull or should I be tightening my lever cap or?


It's just the nature of the beast. As for the "vibrations" that's chatter... Sharpen the blade.

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


----------



## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Chatter can also be from:
a thin blade and weak chip breaker. I'm replacing my blades and breakers with Hocks
A chip breaker that's set too far back from the edge
A chip breaker that doesn't have much spring left to it to put pressure on the end of the blade
The mouth opening being too wide, and not supporting the wood as the blade try's to cut it.


----------

