# Running wood backwards on a table saw. Always a bad idea, right?



## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Saw this video a few weeks ago when I was looking at different spline jigs for inspiration for building my own. 

At 1:08 this guy starts making a cut, realizes his blade is too low, brings the board back with the blade still spinning. Then, he raises the saw blade while the thing's still running, and then finishes the cut. 






He replied soon after my comment saying that was holy-crap-unsafe saying if I had kickback doing that it must mean my fence isn't aligned. I just let it go because people can be stupid if they want. But then he just replied *again* suggesting a lesson on kickback is in order. Oh wow. Coming from the guy who runs wood backwards? Then watch what he does with his left hand during the whole cut. 

It's funny that he's not using a riving knife or splitter giving his only stated reason for what causes kickback.

And of course, more gold, *"as I am 56 and a professional woodworker with all my fingers it would appear I don't take unnecessary risks."*


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## Acercanto (Jul 9, 2013)

Wow, having all his fingers just means his luck hasn't run out yet!
I'd be more worried about the sound of his saw; it sounds like the blade is dinging on something whenever it spins down.

Acer


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## Lilblee (Sep 5, 2013)

HOLY CRAP!!!!! I find myself taking a risk or two every once in a while; followed by a thought of "Dang that was stupid" but WOW!!! Why would he feel like he should have to reach over the blade like that and incorporate his left hand in holding down the piece? Why would he not finish that cut, raise the blade and cut it again? And most of all. How the heck did he just avoid taking a piece of MDF to the chest? By taking an unnecessary to me would be cutting to 6"; starting the cut and realizing the push stick is across the shop and continuing the cut anyway. And he tried to justify this? What a maroon!

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## Lilblee (Sep 5, 2013)

I read a lot of you guys talking about splitters, and riving knives. Other than dado cuts, do you remove your splitters/riving knives for other reasons? What are these reasons?

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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Pulling a piece backwards...a stroke of genius. Looks like he had one of those genius injuries finding out you can't stop a saw blade with your little finger.


















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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*yes, but*

Quote from post #4:

I read a lot of you guys talking about splitters, and riving knives. Other than dado cuts, do you remove your splitters/riving knives for other reasons? What are these reasons?

A riving knife will raise and lower with the blade, a splitter is a larger metal plate that stays in a fixed position and height. Since the riving knife will be lower than the top of the blade by a small amount is it seldom in the way of any type of cut.
A splitter will be in the way and block the cut since it's higher than the top of the blade on some types of cut, like a rabbet. If it isn't a "through" cut, meaning the blade must come all the way through the work to allow the splitter to follow in the kerf, then the splitter must come off.

Here the splitter is also part of the blade guard:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*running wood "backwards"?*

I have withdrawn a workpiece, moving it back towards me, after making a partial cut with no issues. The kerf has already been made by the blade and is no less safe than pushing it all the way through. However, there may be other issues depending on the specific conditions .... blade, wood, fence alignment etc. It's your option as to whether to stop the blade or not, but a stopped blade can cause no harm of course.


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## Lilblee (Sep 5, 2013)

I always complete the cut then adjust the blade and cut again. I am just a little more comfortable that way. My saw tends to vibrate a little more when powering down and I'm always scared the vibrating will cause the piece to move into the blade resulting in me eating a piece of wood. Although I have been known to not mind a little sawdust in my morning coffee, this isn't my ideal way of ingesting some roughage.

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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Lilblee said:


> I read a lot of you guys talking about splitters, and riving knives. Other than dado cuts, do you remove your splitters/riving knives for other reasons? What are these reasons?


My first table saw did not have a riving knife, so I installed a Micro splitter in the insert. I did not like the distance between the blade and the splitter which was part of the guard.

I only removed this splitter if I changed the insert, e.g., to the original insert when doing dado cuts.

My present saw has a riving knife which can be set to be just below the blade height. Now I can keep the riving knife in place when doing dado cuts with the normal blade (multiple passes).

The only time I remove the riving knife is if I install the dado stack due to this being 8in blades and too short for the riving knife.

The person in the original video is crazy. He is playing the odds and at some point they will catch up with him. A good example that not everything on the internet is worth seeing - or believing.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Better yet, to just get your adjustments right the first time.








 







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## Lilblee (Sep 5, 2013)

cabinetman said:


> Better yet, to just get your adjustments right the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, I agree, but I'm a little slow sometimes lol

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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Lilblee said:


> Lol, I agree, but I'm a little slow sometimes lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wood Forum


Me too...the older I get.:laughing: It's easy to see blade height compared to stock height.








 







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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I pull wood back if the cut isn't finished. I have for years without an issue. The kerf is in place, and with a properly aligned fence it should stay centered on the blade.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

i've pulled back as well, maybe not as far as he did. the ONLY issue i can share is that wood may sometimes close up, as we all know, during the cut. will not be a problem on the front of the blade as it is going down toward the table, but the back of the blade is lifting, and is where the pinch starts. would not be a good thing happening while you are reaching up there.

we had wood pinch so fast that it stopped our 3hp radial arm saw cold halfway through the board.


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## Toolman2 (Jun 15, 2010)

From what I could see, he's an accident waiting to happen. In my opinion, pulling the piece back is the least of his worries. I agree with the dangerous position he puts his left hand in; one slip and it's a trip to the ER.

Also, he needs a better push stick/block, preferably one that has more forward overhand to hold the piece down, especially since he's not using a feather board or similar hold-down.:thumbdown:


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

ryan50hrl said:


> I pull wood back if the cut isn't finished. I have for years without an issue. The kerf is in place, and with a properly aligned fence it should stay centered on the blade.



I have also done the same many times, with no problems. You do have to have the saw set up right, and be aware of whats going on.

The scariest thing on the video, is the saw, and the operator. Not so much, what he's, doing, but how. Reaching across the blade to hold down the wood.. No. I don't even do that!
It sounds like he has a bent blade.

Someone mentioned their saw vibrates when winding down. In this case it might be safer to back the wood out of a partial cut, with the motor running.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

He replied late last night asking if I'd ever used a table saw. I said, "Absolutely. Have you ever read up on table saw safety?" Looks like his reply to that was to delete both my comments on his safety, as well as his replies.

I didn't mean to be rude to the guy. I almost wish I hadn't responded to his second reply. My initial statement might still be there and stand as a warning. I know you guys might do the backwards thing sometimes, but it really is a super bad idea to let people think it's ok. I think if you're going to make a video on how to make something that potentially thousands of people are going to see, you shouldn't be that complacent about safety. Not everyone watching the video is going to have a quality saw with a fence and blade that are even able to be properly aligned. I say even if the fence *is* perfectly aligned there's still a risk.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Where does the risk come from? It's no more a risk than continuing to feed forward.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

There's always a chance that the work piece could catch and get thrown if it's allowed to go the direction of the blade. I really can't believe I have to explain that to you, considering most of you have probably been woodworking many times, if not orders of magnitude longer than I have. 

You wouldn't ever point a gun at someone, even if you *knew* beyond any shadow of a doubt that it's not loaded, because you just completely reassembled it and cleaned it. For me it's just a _never do it ever_ kind of thing.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

ryan50hrl said:


> Where does the risk come from? It's no more a risk than continuing to feed forward.


So, are you saying there's no more risk even if wood is fed from the back of the saw and moved to the front?



















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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Sure there is then, it's not going to cut a kerf....but at any given moment the wood is engaged with the blade regardless if the wood is moving forward, backward or sitting still. Would you consider the risk of a kick back to be the same, more, or less if the wood is partially cut and sitting still with the blade running in the kerf?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*an example*

If you have ever "drop cut" with a circular saw where you engage the workpiece by lowering the blade into the work. It's a climb cut of a sort and you have to be very careful to hang on to the saw. Sometimes it's necessary to back the saw up to make the cut, a climb cut for sure. 

Anyone who suggests feeding a table saw from the rear is asking for trouble. The teeth are rotating upward at the rear and will lift the work off the table. The normal process of feeding the work from the front where the teeth are rotating downward, will press the workpiece into the table, a safe operation.

If the cut was started from the front and either paused or backed out towards the operator there is no increase in danger from pushing the work all the way through the blade, assuming a properly setup saw and fence. BTDT quite a few times.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Pulling a board back as he did because the blade was too low is not going to get him into trouble, the kerf is being held open by the material at the top that was not cut. 

As my Daddy used to say, "When you are watching somebody do something you can look for mistakes or you can watch and learn something."


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## tim407 (Nov 24, 2012)

If u want to do that in your own shop go ahead. By all means. Hell balance on your head and use your feet guide the wood through and be happy about it. But don't post an instructional video that others are going to follow being careless thats just all around bad. 

U can rely on their being a kerf left by the blade which there might be a 999 times out of a 1000 but that one time tension is released and the wood pinches in in itself you have a wood sammich coming your way. 

Also its a muscle memory thing i think too. Even with a perfect setup u need to be directing the wood properly to have a safe cut. U do it over and over and after a few projects your making cuts without even thinking about it. You cant say that about directing the wood in the opposite direction it's a completely different motion. 

Again yeah you do what u think us safe in your shop and good luck to you. But when you wanna make the wood working community better you really owe it yourself and your craft to also show good solid fundamentals.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

At last count there's 4 TS's in our shop.....but theres always about 1 a month or so in for "fixin".

Got to say though,they are about the dumbest designed pce of equipment I've ever seen.You can go down a rather looooong list of really dangerous procedures....and heck,you can limit those to "approved",best practice BS.

So for some halfwit to "publish",using one in an unsafe manner is but just a VERY slight derailment from established methods.

When you consider the evolution of WW'ing through the centuries,and then really look at how the TS came to where it is now....it's bloomin scary.It's like looking down the wrong end of a gun barrel if you ask me.Will say,the sliders are nice(and way saferf)IF they're used in a crossccut axis.But even then only for pcs up to a half sheet(4x8).A nice Striebig would be on my menu if we gave a hoot about processing large amts of sheet goods.

Oh well,call me a 2%'er....cause I look at TS's as a necessary evil......a really dumb one at that.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

tim407 said:


> If u want to do that in your own shop go ahead. By all means. Hell balance on your head and use your feet guide the wood through and be happy about it. But don't post an instructional video that others are going to follow being careless thats just all around bad.
> 
> U can rely on their being a kerf left by the blade which there might be a 999 times out of a 1000 but that one time tension is released and the wood pinches in in itself you have a wood sammich coming your way.
> 
> ...


Well said. Forums like this provide space for all kinds of opinions. Hopefully, those that aren't safe, or are just illogical get addressed so the readers of those opinions get both the pro and con viewpoints.


















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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

I'm a bit troubled by his big baggy sweater sleeve and how close it gets to the blade.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> Where does the risk come from? It's no more a risk than continuing to feed forward.


Ah but there is. When pulling the wood back if it is allowed to come off the fence even a little it will contact the blade on the side the teeth are moving up, and since you are pulling it through instead of pushing it you have less control of it. Especially with no splitter or riving knife the risk of kickback is increased greatly during this maneuver.


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## Lilblee (Sep 5, 2013)

I wouldn't drive my truck down the street in reverse doing the speed limit. Why? Less control, and the thing is made to go that fast forward, not in reverse. When something is engineered to work a certain way in a certain order and you reverse it, it opens you up to the unknown.

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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

I confess I do it occasionally. BUT, I have only cut into the piece an inch or so, and back it out to check that the kerf is the correct distance from the edge and/or the correct depth. A double check before I run a number of repeat cuts. Otherwise, mostly no.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Same for me Clay,

I run the stock into the blade so 1/4" of the cut shows at the top.

Then I back the stock out of the cut and turn off the saw while I measure to that the confirm the fence to kerf measurement is what I want.

I do this by placing the workpiece against the fence and placing a steel rule on top of the workpiece and against the fence.

My spidey sense tells me this is safe.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

I realize I have to back off of my _never-ever-do-it_ stance to admit that I _have_ run a piece in 1/4" to figure exact kerf positioning, like the folks above have. I don't know how much beyond 1/4" could be considered safe. I wouldn't imagine very much. I would imagine that both the risk of kickback and the potential damage caused by kickback would rise significantly every inch you went in. I think even a couple inches is too far. If you are as far in as the guy in the video was, you could have serious, finger losin' kickback.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*there's wood and then theres' plywood etc*

Wood, lumber from trees, may have internal stresses in the grain structure that release when you make a cut/kerf. The material can either stay uniform, open or close depending on the grain. You won't know for sure .... unless the grain is very straight, and the rings are vertical to the surface ...quartersawn.

When and if the grain closes, it may pinch the rear of the spinning blade, lock on and propel it back at Ya. If the kerf opens, it may bind inbetween the blade and the fence, which is locked down. This will make the work very difficult to push forward if the splitter is in place.
If nothing happens, the kerf stays the same, that is the best and safest condition.

SO, when you make a partial cut/kerf you won't have an issue IF, the wood doesn't open or close and you withdraw the piece keeping the same pressure against the fence. 

Plywood, MDF and other "man made" materials do not have this issue of opening or closing and the kerf always stays open, but you still have to use caution when withdrawing the workpiece and maintain constant pressure in towards the fence. The use of a splitter or riving knife, will by and large will prevent the piece from coming off the fence at the rear of the blade, spinning around and coming back at Ya. 

Partial cuts require the same focus and concentration as full cuts, but the type of material, either lumber or plywood, plays an important role also.

:yes:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

*A Lot Of If's*



woodnthings said:


> Wood, lumber from trees, may have internal stresses in the grain structure that release when you make a cut/kerf. The material can either stay uniform, open or close depending on the grain. You won't know for sure .... unless the grain is very straight, and the rings are vertical to the surface ...quartersawn.
> 
> When and if the grain closes, it may pinch the rear of the spinning blade, lock on and propel it back at Ya. If the kerf opens, it may bind inbetween the blade and the fence, which is locked down. This will make the work very difficult to push forward if the splitter is in place.
> If nothing happens, the kerf stays the same, that is the best and safest condition.
> ...


It doesn't matter whether the subject piece is solid wood or plywood. Moving stock backward is just an accident waiting to happen. The movement is not a common one, and all it takes is a slight of hand to get the piece dislodged.

Those with experience try to suggest safe machine operation. I don't understand why those supposedly in the know take safety so lightly. Moving material backwards...not smart. We have members moving the material front to back that are cutting fingers, and getting kickbacks. Now you're telling them to move it backwards. Get real.

















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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*read all of the posts above*

Many members besides me have done this, safely and have no issues. If you don't think it's safe, that's just one man's opinion against the procedure. I explained the process, not just gave a blank statement. Getting real means a full explanation of the why's and wherefores. What's your excuse/rationale? You are not the end all be of woodworking, I don't care how many posts you've managed to build up, you're still just one "opinion" in the realm of woodworking expertise. Is this real enough for you? :smile:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> Many members besides me have done this, safely and have no issues. If you don't think it's safe, that's just one man's opinion against the procedure. I explained the process, not just gave a blank statement. Getting real means a full explanation of the why's and wherefores. What's your excuse/rationale? You are not the end all be of woodworking, I don't care how many posts you've managed to build up, you're still just one "opinion" in the realm of woodworking expertise. Is this real enough for you? :smile:


You're missing the whole point. You're right, I'm just one opinion. I wouldn't suggest a procedure that's a potential hazard...PERIOD. Is that real enough for you? What does post count have to do with anything? It seems to be a topic for you, as you have brought it up before.









 







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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

There is no difference in the forces involved moving a board backward or forward, if you can get a firm grip and control the board the forces exerted are the same....a gut feeling that it's not safe is not evidence of non safe actions. Explain where the safety issue comes in using which forces act upon the wood in which directions....


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*potential hazards?*



cabinetman said:


> You're missing the whole point. You're right, I'm just one opinion. I wouldn't suggest a procedure that's a *potential hazard*...PERIOD.


Woodworking is "inherently dangerous" and any operation is a "potential hazard" especially if you don't understand the physics of the tool, of the materials and your own capabilities.
Each person here can do as they choose when it comes to any operation. As stated above the forces don't change, in fact withdrawing a workpiece has fewer forces acting on it than pushing into the blade...all others considered equal.

*Warning:* The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. WoodworkingTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any woodworking or home improvement task!


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## MattS (Feb 17, 2010)

My rule of thumb is pretty simple - if the wood has passed the midpoint of the blade curve, bringing it back can cause it to ride up and shoot it at me (been there, done that). It is simple physics to observe that if you took an uncut chunk of lumber and tried to very slowly feed it backwards into the saw, it is almost impossible to control the feed rate (it will grab and chuck the wood in the direction the blade is spinning). Ever used a shaper and forget which way you meant to feed the material in? Same exact thing - and yeah, I've done that. The material leaves your hands in a shocking instant, for sure.

Every teeny bit that you go past the peak (highest point, mid-point, half-way... however you want to say it) of the blade with the leading edge of your material, the higher the chance you can have the material climb the blade from the opposing side if you draw it back towards you. Many other posters here have noted all of the characteristics of the materials that can contribute to this. 

It is worth noting that in all honesty, even maintaining a decent feed rate - with good control, close eye on the situation and lots of mechanical assistance (featherboards, fence jigs etc) kickback can simply happen, period. On anything you cut. I've had a couple things fire past my hip/chest from my TS over the years and once from my shaper. I didn't come close to placing my hands or body in danger in those scenarios, largely thanks to a good blend of common sense, respect for the tools and some wise people on this board who took the time to explain the 1-2-3's of 'how to keep your hands handy'.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

ok, I have to agree with cabbie here that pulling the piece backwards is more hazardous than finishing the cut, and I can explain why. When you are pushing the work forward, the leading corner rubbing against the fence would tend to make the end you are pushing on pull away from the fence, but you have pretty good control of said end so you can hold it against the fence. When you pull it backwards, the leading edge becomes the end you are holding on to so you lose control of the end that wants to pull away from the fence, unless you reach your hand to the back side of the blade, which is a dangerous operation all on it's own. When the far end pulls away from the fence, that is when the rear teeth of the blade will pick the work up and spin it, causing a kickback. If that's not increased risk I don't know what is.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*just to make it perfectly clear*

I'm not advocating feeding the stock "backwards" from the rear of the machine. I'm referring to a partial cut, maybe past the rear of the blade with plenty of stock remaining to maintain fence registration. Once you lose contact with the fence, it won't matter what else you do, there will be an issue.

I was ripping a 2 X 6 today where I need to remove about 3/16" from an edge. The board was curved side to the blade and the blade lost contact in the curve, so I retracted the piece, moved the fence toward the blade another 1/8" and restarted the rip. It went as predicted, no issues.


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## tim407 (Nov 24, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> I'm not advocating feeding the stock "backwards" from the rear of the machine. I'm referring to a partial cut, maybe past the rear of the blade with plenty of stock remaining to maintain fence registration. Once you lose contact with the fence, it won't matter what else you do, there will be an issue.
> 
> I was ripping a 2 X 6 today where I need to remove about 3/16" from an edge. The board was curved side to the blade and the blade lost contact in the curve, so I retracted the piece, moved the fence toward the blade another 1/8" and restarted the rip. It went as predicted, no issues.


I'm sure cabinetman will agree here. It's your fingers brother. 

Just do us all a favor and if your going to make an instructional video please edit that part out for the novice woodworkers out there.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

I have remained silent on this issue until now.

Most of my career was in computer programming or network communications. In that world we had the saying, "Never say Never". This discussion warrants an exception.

On the table saw, you should NEVER move wood backward through the cut. 

Discussing the physics is beating a dead horse. 

If it is necessary to make a partial cut, for any reason, hit the paddle switch with your knee and wait for the blade to stop. Then extract the piece and do what ever you need to do.

What's that? You don't have a paddle switch? Shame on you. They are so easy to build.


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> Explain where the safety issue comes in using which forces act upon the wood in which directions....



Two things I can think of, with what's already been mentioned: 

1) You give up some control of the work piece when you let it go the direction of cutting mechanism. It's easier to push the wood with the blade direction than against. We can agree that the blade's teeth do have _some_ influence on the board's speed, regardless of board direction. If you move the wood with the blade direction, you have less control of it since you're already going in that direction. Going with the direction of the bit rotation is something we don't do with routers/shapers for the same reason. Moving _with_ the blade direction can encourage the work piece to accelerate uncontrollably. I suppose if you were already moving the wood with the blade direction, you'd just call it "kick" instead of "kickback", since it's not really changing directions suddenly, only velocities. 

2) Regardless of how well a fence/blade is aligned, simply changing board direction can change the position of the board in relation to the fence/blade.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Gas can firmly in right hand............

Google or ask about climb cutting/milling.

One way of looking at it is..."It's what separates the men from boys"....do it without the proper equipment/experience and it can be read:"it's what separates fingers from hands".

But it is part of the discussion........maybe with an asterisk or something?But we climb cut on shapers "right often".And regularly do it with routers...handheld and table mounted.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*right!*

Framing contractors or others who have used a circular saw a great deal and in awkward places, climb cut often. I have a buddy who says he has more "mileage" on a circular saw going "backwards", than most folks do going forward..... and still has all the body parts he was born with. With experience comes skill, and climb cutting is not for the unskilled. 

I've mangaged to launch a few workpieces on the router table ... unintentionally of course. Safety equipment, hold downs, proper standing position are very important. Having had those experiences, I am more skilled, than before....just sayin' :laughing:


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

what i like about this thread is the fact that safety can be a good discussion topic. and that _awareness_ of this type of table saw scenario has been made, to all readers. 

i know i'll think twice about attempting that move - and will not do it!


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

It all comes down to experience, watching the video is proof that it "can" be done with no adverse consequences, he had a choice to make, shut the saw down and wait for the blade to stop, carry on, or pull the board back in a "safe" manner.

Personally I would have just continued the cut, but that is my choice, he chose to hold the board to the fence and push it back with his push stick, I doubt he would have done that if he did not feel comfortable doing it.

I agree having this discussion is a constructive exercise, however it could do without a few of the "holier than thou" attitudes.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*running backwards implies "cutting" ...?*

I'm gonna throw another wrinkle into this can of worms., the Radial Arm Saw. Every cut you make on the RAS is a "climb cut" where the saw carriage wants to climb into the workpiece when you pull the saw from the rear to front as the manuals suggest is the safest procedure.

If you push the saw into the work from the front toward the fence another thing happens ... the work wants to lift off the table because the blade is rotating upwards. The safe operation of a RAS depends a great deal on the workpiece being firmly pressed down on the table, maintaining it position during the cut. When pulling the saw from the fence toward the front, the blade rotation helps press the work into the table as it enters the material.

I'm also going to suggest that anytime the workpiece loses registration the fence there may or may not be a issue/kickback, depending on the amount. Many, many times I have stopped the forward movement of the workpiece to regrip or reposition my hands and push block, it's just a normal thing you have to do. It's only very slightly different from withdrawing the work piece "backwards" however, it's still important that you maintain work to fence registration. The big difference is getting a secure hold on the workpiece without letting it change it's registration. That's where the safety issue comes to bear in my opinion. IF you lose control of the workpiece, bad things may happen, and I think that is where the confusion is about in this thread. Nobody is advocating feeding the work "backwards", rear to front, to make a cut. No cutting is occurring when you are withdrawing the work, in a controlled manner.

I'm not even advocating anyone who doesn't feel comfortable with this operation do it. As FrankC so aptly said, it's a matter of experience. :yes:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

FrankC said:


> I agree having this discussion is a constructive exercise, however it could do without a few of the "holier than thou" attitudes.


Sorry that you see it as a "holier than thou" attitude. Some of us have very strong feelings towards safety. Those that are experienced that offer alternative reasoning about performing certain procedures may not take into consideration the skill level of some members.


















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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*lots of backing up here*

Check out the video at about 11:00 minutes in. Interesting jig for making small beveled pieces on the tablesaw. Actually using the sled requires backing up every time, BUT the sled is held securely in position by the guide rails in the miter slots. It's all about maintaining the material in position, whether a sled or against the fence.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

I'm generally against pulling wood back when a spinning blade is involved. I was lucky back when I was inexperienced. Many years ago, I was cutting a 45 degree bevel on my original "skil" tablesaw and the wood suddenly kicked back with my hand on it, putting a shallow (but nasty) cut across my left index fingertip. I was extremely lucky. No disfigurement, just a small dead spot on the tip of my finger.

Anyway, I realized that I *do* pass wood backwards across the blade in one specific circumstance - when I'm cutting tenons without a jig or dado set. 
I use my miter gauge and my fence and I pass my end of my wood over the blade repeatedly, forwards and backwards to remove the wood. I don't cut on the reverse. I've never had a problem, don't perceive any loss of control or kickback risk on this sort of cut. 

Some folks feel comfortable doing more. I guess it's really up the woodworker and his/her feeling of control over the wood. 

My departed father (an artist, not a woodworker) used to tell me that you can break the rules, but you have to learn the rules first and know which ones can be broken...


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## RobinDobbie (Jan 31, 2013)

Just curious if maybe pretty much every table saw manual ever got it wrong in the general safety area where they state never to run wood backwards? And what's the gain, you saved 12 seconds? Seriously, if you feel that lucky, just go to Vegas. The risk:reward ratios are much better, there.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Huh?*



RobinDobbie said:


> Just curious if maybe pretty much every table saw manual ever got it wrong in the general safety area where they state never to *run wood backwards? *And what's the gain, you saved 12 seconds? Seriously, if you feel that lucky, just go to Vegas. The risk:reward ratios are much better, there.


You are the only person I've heard use this description ....run the wood backwards. It just isn't what's happening. You make a partial pass, and withdraw the piece in the open kerf that you've just made. You can leave the machine on or turn it off, which ever you choose, it's your choice, what ever you feel safer doing.

Obviously with it off, nothing "can" happen. With it still on something "may" happen, but in my experience, it has not. It's still your choice.

As I mentioned, every time you crosscut with a sled , you withdraw the work or the slde in the kerf made by the blade. I've not seen any online sled videos where a person is making multiple crosscuts who turns the machine off. I don't do it either. It's just not necessary, but it's still your choice. 

Every time you make a crosscut on a RAS, the blade is in the kerf in the table or the saw won't cut all the way through. You are constantly moving the blade back and forth in the kerf each time you make a cut. I never turn my RAS off until I'm completely finished cutting all my pieces, especially when making multiples the same length using a stop block. 

I not trying to convince you of anything, I'm merely pointing out what I do and why. It's always your choice how you use your saw. :yes:
Good Luck.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> I not trying to convince you of anything, I'm merely pointing out what I do and why.


You are doing that over and over.








 







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