# Simple & Quiet Dust Collection Setup?



## TimeTurnsElastic

I know very little about this stuff having just rented out my first shop space. If you could call it that. More like a shed (approx 90 sq ft). Room for my DeWalt 7491 and not much more. So a real dust collection system is probably out of the question. All I have currently is a little C-Man 6 gal 3hp shop vac, which does an okay job hooked up to the TS dust port. Problem is I can't have it running constantly, too noisy. My landlord is not a fan.

So I'm looking for any solutions to limit airborne particulates and dust, with a small footprint, and as quiet as possible. Thinking along the lines of a portable air cleaner and an air mover to keep things circulating. 

Not opposed to a portable dust collection system if it's quiet and won't break the bank. I know that doesn't leave me too many options so I'm gonna have to be resourceful here. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## woodnthings

*the noise comes from ....*

Usually a shop vac has a brush type motor which is much more noisy than an induction type motor. It's not the air moving through the hoses that makes the noise, it's the motor. Harbor Freight has a small 1 HP dust collector that gets good reviews on their sire:
http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gal-1-hp-industrial-portable-dust-collector-61808.html

It does not state in the specs the type of motor, and I have looked at them in the store myself, but I can remember which type of motor it has.... sorry. I call to your local store may help with that. I DO have a Craftsman 1 HP dust collector I purchase on sale and it has the quiet induction/brushless motor. 

http://www.rockler.com/new-dust-rightreg-wall-mount-dust-collector
Rockler also sells a 3/4 HP DC that hangs on the wall, but it's fairly expensive for the size considering you can get a full 2 HP unit at HF for about $160 on sale with a coupon.

If I were you, I'd look for a shop vac that is the most quiet. The Rigid models I have are fairly quiet, but nothing like the brushless type:
http://www.relevantrankings.com/top-10-best-wetdry-shop-vacuums/

Another idea is to use a cannister type home vacuum, possibly a used model from Salvation Army or other thrift store. Plug it in at the store and listen for the noise level. There are dozens of type like this to choose from:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Home-Kitchen-Canister-Vacuum-Cleaners/zgbs/home-garden/510108

You must first collect the dust at the source, then you could have an additional air filter mounted overhead. Your most economical solution is to get a good dual filer dust mask, also available from Harbor Freight. The paper masks are better than none at all, but not the most effective.


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## m.n.j.chell

Harbor Freight has a system on sale right now. I don't have the ad with me, but I think it was right at $150.00.


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## Steve Neul

What are you doing that the vacuum is too noisy and the saw isn't. They make small dust collectors for folks cramped for space.http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=dust+collector


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## Johnnie_dr

Well...

Not to be a downer, but I have both the small portable 1 hp HF and the larger 2HP HF dust collectors....and they both work great. I have the small unit dedicated to my miter saw. I have the larger unit rigged to my entire shop and drops to my power tools (dust makers).

BUT...if your landlord is complaining about noise from a little shop vac...well...he'll really complain if you fire either of these DC's up. They are both rather loud...cause they both have large industrial motors, not the little dudes they put in a shop-vac.They will get the job done, but are noisy.

How about an air filter used in conjunction with your shop vac. The air filter will help with the airborne fine dust, plus they are much quieter. Like this one from Shop Vac. 

Might do the trick until you move into a permanent shop where you can put in a full DC system.

Johnnie


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## woodnthings

*there is no comparison between them*



Johnnie_dr said:


> Well...
> 
> Not to be a downer, but I have both the small portable 1 hp HF and the larger 2HP HF dust collectors....and they both work great. I have the small unit dedicated to my miter saw. I have the larger unit rigged to my entire shop and drops to my power tools (dust makers).
> 
> *BUT...if your landlord is complaining about noise from a little shop vac...well...he'll really complain if you fire either of these DC's up. They are both rather loud...cause they both have large industrial motors, not the little dudes they put in a shop-vac.They will get the job done, but are noisy.*
> 
> 
> Johnnie


The shop vacs I have, 4 Rigids are among the most quiet, but they are still loud. The DCs I have, Jets 100 at 1 1/2 HP are not noisy/loud in comparison. The 2 Jet 100's and like a washing machine on wash cycle, no comparison. 

The shop vacs have motors with brushes like a circular saw. The Jet DCs have induction motors, no brushes and the only noise is from the impeller spinning at 3450 RPMs and the air moving through the flex hose, not that much.


Quote:
The scale for measuring intensity is the *decibel scale*. The threshold of hearing is assigned a sound level of 0 decibels (abbreviated 0 dB); this sound corresponds to an intensity of 1*10-12 W/m2. A sound that is 10 times more intense ( 1*10-11 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 10 dB. A sound that is 10*10 or 100 times more intense (1*10-10 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 20 db. A sound that is 10*10*10 or 1000 times more intense (1*10-9 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 30 db. A sound that is 10*10*10*10 or 10000 times more intense (1*10-8 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 40 db. Observe that this scale is based on powers of 10. If one sound is 10x times more intense than another sound, then it has a sound level that is 10*x more decibels than the less intense sound. The table below lists some common sounds with an estimate of their intensity and decibel level.
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/sound/u11l2b.cfm

Notice a vacuum cleaner comes in at 80 dbs compared to rustling leaves at 10 dbs. 

So I took some readings of various woodworking machines and shop vacs after downloading a DB meter app:

Table saw, no DC turned on: 82 db
Radial Arm Saw, no DC on: 84 db
Jet 15" planer, no DC or wood planed: 90db

16 gal Rigid shop vac: 89 db
6 gal Craftsman shop vac: 87 db.
Jet DC 1100 no machines running: 85 db

The loudest sound I could generate is 90 dbs at the planer without planing any wood. Planing wood resulted in no difference. FYI. 

The distance from the machine is also a factor, obviously. It may be in the case of the table saw and a shop vac within a small shed that the sound "seems" much louder than it would from 25 ft away to the landlord.


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## Steve Neul

Could the vacuum be placed outdoors and a long hose inside be used?


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## tvman44

The 1 hp HF unit (green one) with the induction is a lot quieter than my shop vac. I have 2 of them and like them. HF has a red 1Hp unit which has a universal motor and is as noisy as a shop vac, same kind of motor.


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## jdonhowe

I built a cheap enclosure for my shop vac- a box with OSB sides lined with egg crate foam, and a baffle so that exhaust (and sound) exits toward the floor. It really cut down on the noise. I don't run my shop vac continuously, but depending on your motor cooling design, you might need to be aware of overheating if run non-stop.

Also, while DC's may be louder than shop vacs, the pitch level tends to be lower, so they might not be as irritating to the landlord as the high pitched whine of a shop vac.


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## TimeTurnsElastic

Steve: I'm not exactly sure. Maybe like jdonhowe mentioned, it's a pitch thing? I myself find the noise from the shop vac more irritating than that of a TS or compressor. The landlord is a quirky guy who much prefers intermittent bursts of noise to continuous. It's a family neighborhood and he wants me to take breaks between running power tools. Not exactly an ideal situation when it comes to sanding, planing and other such tasks. So, my other guess is maybe it's because the vac runs for longer spurts than the time a cut takes (I don't have an auto vacuum switch). Come to think of it, that could help mitigate the noise issue... Or, I could just be more diligent about turning the vac on right before and after the saw. But I dunno, I'd say I'm a pretty considerate tenant, and sure don't make more of a racket than to be expected in what was listed on Craigslist as possible "workshop space". I live in LA where pickings are slim. Wasn't able to find a single garage rental for use as anything other than storage. I'd probably bail if the rent wasn't so cheap by SoCal standards, or the fact that I'm now into it a couple hundred bucks and quite a few hours' labor fixing the cruddy walls and replacing the nasty carpet with lam flooring.

To speak to your suggestion about putting the vac outside and running a long hose, that would actually situate the noise source closer to him as my shed/shop is detached. The interesting thing is, he has many times suggested I feel free to spread out and make use of the large deck and any other part of the property I'd like to.


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## TimeTurnsElastic

Johnnie: that is actually a unit I have been looking into. I've thought about hanging it from the ceiling. Shop Vac brand also makes a nice, portable air mover/fan I could use in conjunction, angling the fan toward an open door. Despite the landlord's concerns about noise, his property is quite dilapidated and he could care less about sawdust being spewed out into the yard. So, that is certainly one possible alternative to a DC.



Johnnie_dr said:


> Well...
> 
> Not to be a downer, but I have both the small portable 1 hp HF and the larger 2HP HF dust collectors....and they both work great. I have the small unit dedicated to my miter saw. I have the larger unit rigged to my entire shop and drops to my power tools (dust makers).
> 
> BUT...if your landlord is complaining about noise from a little shop vac...well...he'll really complain if you fire either of these DC's up. They are both rather loud...cause they both have large industrial motors, not the little dudes they put in a shop-vac.They will get the job done, but are noisy.
> 
> How about an air filter used in conjunction with your shop vac. The air filter will help with the airborne fine dust, plus they are much quieter. Like this one from Shop Vac.
> 
> Might do the trick until you move into a permanent shop where you can put in a full DC system.
> 
> Johnnie


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## TimeTurnsElastic

Thanks as always woodnthings for the well researched input.



woodnthings said:


> Usually a shop vac has a brush type motor which is much more noisy than an induction type motor. It's not the air moving through the hoses that makes the noise, it's the motor. Harbor Freight has a small 1 HP dust collector that gets good reviews on their sire:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gal-1-hp-industrial-portable-dust-collector-61808.html
> 
> I just looked that one up on HF, and as mikechell mentioned, yes, it's on sale for $150. Factoring the 20% coupon & CA tax I'd be out the door for $145 -- not bad. TVMan mentioned he has the green one with an induction motor and it's quieter than most shop vacs. Seems from the website specs you're both talking about the same unit, just in different colors. Will try and get into HF this weekend for a look. Maybe there'll be an addition Memorial Day markdown.
> 
> It does not state in the specs the type of motor, and I have looked at them in the store myself, but I can remember which type of motor it has.... sorry. I call to your local store may help with that. I DO have a Craftsman 1 HP dust collector I purchase on sale and it has the quiet induction/brushless motor.
> 
> http://www.rockler.com/new-dust-rightreg-wall-mount-dust-collector
> Rockler also sells a 3/4 HP DC that hangs on the wall, but it's fairly expensive for the size considering you can get a full 2 HP unit at HF for about $160 on sale with a coupon.
> 
> That's not that much more than the HF, and for my purposes and space I'd imagine 3/4 would probably suffice? I do like the idea of a wall-mounted DC, and am not so sure I'd need a 2HP anyway?
> 
> If I were you, I'd look for a shop vac that is the most quiet. The Rigid models I have are fairly quiet, but nothing like the brushless type:
> http://www.relevantrankings.com/top-10-best-wetdry-shop-vacuums/
> 
> Another idea is to use a cannister type home vacuum, possibly a used model from Salvation Army or other thrift store. Plug it in at the store and listen for the noise level. There are dozens of type like this to choose from:
> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Home-Kitchen-Canister-Vacuum-Cleaners/zgbs/home-garden/510108
> 
> I like this idea a lot. Those best sellers on Amazon are pretty affordable. Amazon doesn't specify dB rating so I'll have to post a question and hopefully get an answer. But I can't imagine it wouldn't be significantly quieter than my Craftsman shop vac. In theory would I be able to run a canister vacuum hose to my TS dust collection port with the right adaptor? Or would that totally thrash the vac? This "workshop" is only for little weekend side projects, so maybe you're onto something here.
> 
> You must first collect the dust at the source, then you could have an additional air filter mounted overhead. Your most economical solution is to get a good dual filer dust mask, also available from Harbor Freight. The paper masks are better than none at all, but not the most effective.


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## TimeTurnsElastic

If I do decide to stick to the shop vac route, or give a canister vac a shot like woodnthings suggested, one thing to help matters (at least marginally) might be to simply cut down the amount of time the vac is ruining, with an automated switch?

Has anyone had any luck with one of these?
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63013&cat=1,42401&ap=1"]http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63013&cat=1,42401&ap=1[/URL]


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## woodnthings

*I searched "quiet shop vac" on Ebay*

All sorts of "quiet" models came up:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...et+shop+vac.TRS0&_nkw=Quiet+shop+vac&_sacat=0

This one seemed OK for your hanging wall type:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shop-Vac-39...:g:FooAAOSwuYVWp4fG&item=231826612687&vxp=mtr


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## epicfail48

I dunno about the smaller HF model, but the 2hp dust collector they sell is pretty loud. Ive got one, and when running its roughly as loud as my table saw idling, though at a different pitch. Pretty loud, and decidedly louder than my shopvac. 

Speaking of, have you considered just getting a quieter shopvac? Ive got a 10 gallon metal can bostich model, picked it up for something like $80 at walmart, and its a pretty quiet beast. Quiet enough to where i regularly forget if i turned it on when using my RO sander, as the sander is way louder than the vacuum. If i wanted to go quieter, im sure i could add a muffler to it and take it down to a whisper.


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## Brian(J)

jdonhowe said:


> I built a cheap enclosure for my shop vac- a box with OSB sides lined with egg crate foam, and a baffle so that exhaust (and sound) exits toward the floor. It really cut down on the noise. I don't run my shop vac continuously, but depending on your motor cooling design, you might need to be aware of overheating if run non-stop.
> 
> Also, while DC's may be louder than shop vacs, the pitch level tends to be lower, so they might not be as irritating to the landlord as the high pitched whine of a shop vac.



I'm going to rave about this idea. I have a full-on DC for my wood machine and it's great, but DC's are not Vac's and I like to run a vac at my milling machine. I put the vac in a cabinet next to the mill and it is so very quiet. I ran a remote switch to the mill to make it easy to operate.


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## woodnthings

*What's a "milling machine"?*



Brian(J) said:


> I'm going to rave about this idea. I have a full-on DC for my wood machine and it's great, but DC's are not Vac's and I like to run a vac at my milling machine. I put the vac in a cabinet next to the mill and it is so very quiet. I ran a remote switch to the mill to make it easy to operate.


Milling machines are usually metal working machines here in the USA:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...r2=piv-web&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-006&type=










They don't make much noise when in operation. What machine are you referring to?


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