# Does catalpa split easy ?



## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Like in whole log form ? (the reason I ask will be forthcoming)


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I have found that Catalpa don't split nearly as easy when I have to do it, as it does when someone else has to split one. 

Got a whopper on the way? :w00t:


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## Mizer (Mar 11, 2010)

Hmm, I wonder what the answer will be.

In all the years of sawing I do not think I have ever sawn a catalpa. Is it kin to pawulina?


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Catalpa is very pretty. I am not open to the public, but I do saw for several retired guys who are woodworkers. One of them dropped a Catalpa from near his shop in his back yard and brought it to me. I milled it and we had agreed to go on the halves. He is a retired shingle-maker/sawyer from Oregon probably 80 years old now. Still stout as a mule though. 

Anyway as we were milling that thing every board that came of was spectacular. The grin he had was from ear to ear and never came off his face. He was setting every other board off for me. Halfway through the log I told him to quit that halvsies business and just load it all up. He did the "are you sure?" thing a couple of times but I could tell he wanted that stuff some kind of bad. 

A year or so later he brought us a table. I'll get some pics of it. He made us an exact dulicate one of ERC before that. I love Catalpa. Course I never saw a wood I didn't like.


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

I milled this catalpa last fall for a guy. i agree with TT it is pretty nice stuff. smells kinda bad though. the guy who brought it to me had to rip two sides off before it would fit onto my mill every thing went smooth easy cuttin'.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> Got a whopper on the way?


...for a guy who just runs a little manual mill I should steal BurgerKings old catch phrase "Home of the whopper" :wallbash:...hence the question and I hope they do split easy.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

I went through my many books and just found that it is straight grained, not interlocking. I hope this means it will split alright for you. Also found mention that it was the most stable, lowest shrinkage/expansion during drying and humidity change, of all north american hardwoods, good news for making nice, wide boards.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

jeffreythree said:


> . . . . Also found mention that it was the most stable, lowest shrinkage/expansion during drying and humidity change, of all north american hardwoods . . . .


It is very stable, but it's not in the same class as Mesquite and a handful of exotics. Mesquite is arguably the most dimensionally stable hardwoods on the whole planet not just NA. I Googled Catalpa to see if I could find such a staement as I never heard it before, and found the Wikipedia article is disseminating this incorrect information so probably that's where it got started. Just another example of why I don't put much faith in Wikipedia. The article was likely written by a guy who owns a Catalpa farm. :laughing:

Mesquite has a radial and tangential shrinkage that's nearly identical at 2.2% and 2.6% respectively. The closer these two numbers are, the more stable the species, and the numbers are low to begin with. Volumetric shrinkage is in the 4% range. 

Catalpa:
Tangential: 4.6
Radial: 2.5
Volumetric: 7.3


Where did you read that about Catalpa? I wonder if they cite their source.


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

I have an old 1920's forestry book that said it and a couple of websites with no ref's. I looked up something to support it and found it here: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/htmlDocs/catalpa.html

Double mesquite's shrinkage %, but less than half of most everything else. Oh, and those numbers you put up are for 0% MC, 6 is a little more realistic.
6%MC Mesquite Catalpa
Tang  1.4 3.9
Rad .72 2.0
Vol 2.12 5.8


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

I think 0% MC is the baseline used for comparison purposes in academia and white paper research because it removes all the variables. 

But anyhow here is some Catalpa.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Nice table :yes:. I have yet to see the log that prompted my question, I will report back when I do. I know it is felled and at the tree guys place, it will be coming on a mixed load (soon I hope).

I milled cedar all day today, even got a sunburn. Sore-sunburned-covered in cedar sawmill dust...pretty good Sunday.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

When you don't hear a peep out of Daren for a while after a post like this it usually means he's been wrestling with something big. Might not be the Catalpa but I just bet with all this good weather he's been millin like a villain. 

Either that or he's down at the crik wettin a hook. Either that or just been chillin with his gal. Either that or . . . hey Daren what gives man we need an update. :icon_cool:


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

:laughing: We posted at the same time...you have been updated my friend.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

:huh: :laughing:

Peoples is gonna think we are conspiring. We don't post in the thread for a couple days or something then wham. Within one minute. 

I had it planned to be milling most of the day myself but . . . . ain't even gonna go in to it. Still a little day light left I think I might try to boule an old splaty looking crotch right fast. Don't have a sharp blade one but that never stopped me before . . . .


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Daren said:


> Sore.


...I had a cant hook, homemade job out of 1" sch 80 pipe, slip on me Friday. Caught me solid in the ribs. I _thought_ I had a good bite on a big white oak log I was flipping :blush:...


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

eek hope the ribs feel better soon!! 

TT i likes the table i have some catalpa in the kiln now been waitin on the guy to pick it up now for almost 1 1/2 months if he doesn't pick it up soon it may find its way back outside in the weather... or maybe my shop


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Daren said:


> I know it is felled and at the tree guys place, it will be coming on a mixed load


Well it showed up...all 2 tons of it. The chair is for scale (4' fence behind too). It has a couple bad spot on the butt end, the other end is clear.









He brought some more mill friendly ones too in the 24" range.

















He brought some white pine today. I am cutting framing for his deer cabin in exchange for these logs and another 2 loads tomorrow of cherry and walnut.








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AND something that is going to bring up a very old thread :icon_cheesygrin:


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## mdlbldrmatt135 (Dec 6, 2006)

I do hope it splits easy........


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## Stick (Aug 23, 2007)

TexasTimbers said:


> I have found that Catalpa don't split nearly as easy when I have to do it, as it does when someone else has to split one.
> 
> Got a whopper on the way? :w00t:


 That sounds like my dad!! When we were kids, he would rag us for not being able to split the honeylocust very easily... now he has a log splitter!!


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Now I'm not a sawyer or anything and could very well be talking out of my a$$ (something I've been accused of from time to time), but with a log that size wouldn't you be able to mill it easier with a swing mill? I know you don't have one Daren. But I'm just asking, isn't that what a swing mill was pretty much designed for?


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Yes a swingmill would be great for big ones. You don't move the log, just set the mill up over top of it and start cutting. If I had the cash for 2 mills a swinger would be the second and I would take more large logs. But really there are only a few logs a year that my bandmill won't handle (and I would not have to take them really, I am just a glutton for punishment) If I lived where there were mostly big diameter logs a swing mill would be my first choice. A bandmill works better for my situation, logs up to 36" diameter, most of the logs I see are 14"-26" with a few over 30". Without a slabbing attachment a swinger is limited to cut width, they are great for banging out dimensional lumber. I furniture grade saw up to 27" wide slabs. And grade sawing requires flipping the log. That may seem like more work than a swinger, but for the best lumber it's just something we do. You can't really grade saw with a swing mill, like I said the log stays put and you just saw off what is in the blades path.


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

OK, thanks for the insight and explanation Daren. I lurk about on an Australian WW forum and the guys there all rave about their Lucas and Peterson swing mills and seem to have limited experience or knowledge about bandsaw mills. I guess their situation is different. They must predominantly be milling larger diameter logs. Thanks for educating me. That's why I'm here.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

JohnK007 said:


> Thanks for educating me. That's why I'm here.


That's why most of us are here...I learn something new just about everytime I log on. Yea those Aussies like their swing mills, they do get some biggin's to mill too.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Dayyyyum Daren. I never seen a Catalpa that big and solid. I've seen plenty of fat ones here but they all look hollow on the stump. Can't wait to see the wood you make from that.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I think we have a slightly different catalpa species (northern vs southern)...but they have one thing in common, when they get big they are hollow--almost no exception. The tree service guy that I work most with said the same thing, 90%+ look like a sewer pipe when he fells them if they are 24" or better. I am milling a short crooked one this morning (once it warms up, brrr 39 degrees out) it looks like an "S", I am hoping for some slabs to make a neat garden bench. Come to find out these trees came from a very old country cemetery where my great great grandma is and several other family members from 50-75 years ago. So I "know" these trees, I have seen them standing my whole life.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Daren said:


> I am milling a short crooked one this morning it looks like an "S", I am hoping for some slabs to make a neat garden bench.


Well I got 5, 2" thick ~24" wide and ~6' long. I didn't try to do anything with the cut down, threw most of that on the firewood hill. Just got it knocked down so it would sit on the mill the way I wanted and went right for the center slabs in the picture. I can see some neat benches or something here. I like oddball stuff.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

That is some kind of pretty for sure. Nakashima might take the s shape and put a couple of refined backs each half the length of the bench facing each other, sitting on top of a spray of thinly turned spindles. 

I seen in my book where he took a huge walnut crotch flitch and did that. He didn't make two back rests facing each other but with that S-flitch I bet he might. He only put 3 legs underneath it but but with a crotch shape it was perfect. You could use 4 legs but put two in the center across from each and kind of caddy-corner and at a slight angle, and then just one each in the center of each end of it. 

Well you make better slab furniture than me so I'm just blabbing but that's the first thing I saw when I laid eyes on it. But like I said, the wood is :thumbup1:


Can't wait to see the "big stuff".


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> Nakashima might take the s shape and put a couple of refined backs each half the length of the bench facing each other, sitting on top of a spray of thinly turned spindles.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to see the "big stuff".


That was my first thought as I opened the log "conversation bench" or "courting bench". I was not thinking Nakashima style (for once, man I love to knock off his work any time I can) I just remember seeing a courting bench at an antique shop one time and was fascinated by the design. I was thinking more rustic/no back for outside, same concept though...but now you have my wheels turning  I have enough for one outside for me and a backed one inside for someone else. 

The big stuff, well, is still big and a ways off from the mill. I just loaded that curly maple butt log on the mill this afternoon. I am not getting much milling done, I have out of state company in and out all week (lil' bro is up from Fla :smile


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

You prolly knew what I was trying to describe with the split-back thing but here's what I was talking about. Nakashima first:









Then with your flitch here's what i would do:









I know I know, I missed my calling - I should take up drawing. :huh:

But if you could see it like me it wouldn't look so bad as my drawing. If anyone who CAN draw would like to take a stab at it please do. Because Daren prolly already has an idea for it (and prolly better) but I would like to see it drawn properly. 

Maybe I will find an S flitch and build one. yeah. I can't even find time to finish a jewelry box. 


:glare:


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

I like your idea TT couldn't have drawn it better myself:thumbsup:


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Hey dude you are quite the artist shifty No I got exactly what you were saying just from your written description. I too have seen about every piece G. N. made so with your suggestion and his body of work to reflect on I came up with a plan for one of the flitches. (basically what you scratched out there)


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

The only thing I am tossing around is what to make the legs/back spindles/chair back top rail from. I think the catalpa may be a little weak for thin spindles (?, but there will be many so strength may not even be an issue) There are 2 ways of doing things like this, all from one wood and of course contrasting wood looks cool too. The catalpa is "middle of the road" color wise, so one extreme or the other like white ash or black walnut would be a suitable contrast. Ash and catalpa have a very similar grain, so they kinda match in that way, why I thought about it...but I do love me some walnut. What to do, what to do.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Yeah I don't see how you could go wrong with walnut either, but a really white wood might also look good. Plain Jane maple? I don't know if anything busy would blend well, like curly maple I'm thinking might clash but plain 'ol boring maple might go well (?). I can't recall that species that is used so frequently when really natural white is sought. What the heck is that species . . . . 

You gonna do the legs two in the center one each end?


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> Yeah I don't see how you could go wrong with walnut either, but a really white wood might also look good.
> 
> You gonna do the legs two in the center one each end?


I have some ash that is bright white, milled the day it was felled and dried fast. It's whiter than most maple...but I am still leaning towards walnut. I just prefer dark wood. I am open to suggestions from anyone, that is why I mentioned I was still stewing on it, for other opinions. 
Edit: I am not ruling out walnut with some sapwood on it, just a little sap, dark and light. The flitch will have it's sap still. Thoughts ?

Sorta like that, staggered for sure in an asymmetrical way, just not positive on placement for balance/stability I will have to tinker as I go. I threw the 2 best flitches in on top of some cherry I am drying for another guy (milled a bunch of shorts, not enough to completely fill the kiln) So they are sealed up in the kiln right now, I won't see them again for a couple weeks.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Daren said:


> . . . Edit: I am not ruling out walnut with some sapwood on it, just a litte sap, light and dark. . . . Thoughts ? . .


That's what I'm screamin'. :yes: :thumbup1:


Off topic - You probably know this but I just found out that Abby is having to pull into Cape Town for repairs. Bummer. She can still set a record of some kind though I don't understand what it is got to re-watch the video. She's A-OK in my book. It will be one lucky guy who wins her heart. Gonna take one heck of a guy to do it though I bet. I'm glad you found out about her or I wouldn't have.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I figured the sapwood walnut would trip your trigger, it does mine. That is settled in my mind, gonna go dig out some stock after I finish this sandwich I am inhaling.

As far as Abby I think back to what I was doing when I was doing when I was 16...sure wasn't sailing solo around the world :boat:. The young lady has moxy to the 10th power.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

TexasTimbers said:


> I can't recall that species that is used so frequently when really natural white is sought. What the heck is that species . . . .



Holly.



.


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## Chad (May 10, 2009)

Walnut with sapwood!!!!!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Chad said:


> Walnut with sapwood!!!!!


And finished with Chad's Ohio Maple syrup. Actually using it for anything except something that didn't end up across the palette would be a waste. But the Walnut with sap idea is the bomb. 

Just that when I saw "sap" and "Chad" in the same post naturally I thought of breakfast in about 8 hours. Pity on the poor peeps that don't have any of your heavenly hotcake companion.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

Well I have not gotten started on my bench...but dad made one http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/catalpa-bench-18375/#post143865


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## Chad (May 10, 2009)

That looks sweet!


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