# Hand alternatives to table saw long rip cutting



## Shesho

Hello,

I was wondering what hand alternatives are there for making long cuts say 1 and a half meters in length through a board. Getting hold of a table saw isn't really practical for me and probably not worth the money as I'm just starting and want to make a few zither type instruments and simple furniture pieces, I'm not sure if my enthusiasm will last yet either.

I have a Japanese ryoba saw which I find I can probably keep straight with a fairly long cut to within 5mm wonder, of course the longer the harder to keep the cut parallel and straight.

Is the best option to make the cut a little wider then finish with a hand planer?

I have considered a good jig saw with a guide rail, I anticipate my maximum cuts will be about 4cm thickness.

Are there any jigs I can make to assist with keeping the cut parallel and straight? 


Thank you.


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## cabinetman

You could make a jig like this, and use a hand held circualr saw. Or, mount your circular saw underneath a substrate, like Melamine or plywood, and make a straightedge from a strip of straight edged wood, that you can clamp down. If you do this, care must be taken as it's not as safe as a tablesaw that's equipped with factory or add on safety devices.









 







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## Dave Paine

*A power tool would be much easier*

Is the Ryobi saw a circular saw?

A rip of this length can be done with a handsaw. As you state, it would require cleanup with a hand plane.

I think using a power tool like a circular saw with a straight edge will give a much better cut which will need less cleanup, depending on the blade and depth of cut.

You can purchase guides for this length, or can consider looking for a piece of steel angle iron at a hardware store. You will want a thick piece of steel if it is only going to be clamped at each end.

The guides which are sold are designed to be wide so that they will not flex for long cuts.

You could also use a jigsaw with a guide. I have used a jig saw, and even with a guide the cut is not as good as a circular saw, due to the jig saw blade wandering, especially with thicker stock.

If you do use a circular saw, spend the money for a good blade. Circular saw blades are thin and if not sharp will give an edge which needs sanding before gluing. For a small amount extra you can get a premium blade which will give a smoother cut.


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## Shesho

Thanks. The Ryoba i mentioned is a hand help pull saw like this, one side is for rip cut the other cross.











At the moment i'm trying to see if I can avoid power tools where necessary, partly due to cost but also find the noise unpleaant and safet issues discouraging too. I'm not ruling them out but I'm willing to spend extra time provided I can get a satisfactory result at the end. I'd at least find out what other options are out there and test them.


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## woodnthings

*I've never done this...*

But you could clamp two straight pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" thick wood on either side or your line to guide your pull saw and keep it from "wondering" where to go.... :blink: 
4 cm is about 1 5/8" 
http://www.ehow.com/how_6913794_convert-4_2-cm-inches.html

This is a skill acquired after many hours of practice and the guide is just a shortcut to get you going. If you are a dedicated hand tool guru then the practice will be necessary. The wider the saw blade the easier to keep a true line. 

A "good" jig saw, like a Bosch or older Ported Cable with a sharp blade can be controlled by hand or held against a straight edge with reasonable results. The blade is the critical part of that method.Too much set to the teeth and it will be too aggressive. About 8 or 10 teeth per inch like these:

Amazon.com: Bosch T101BR 4-Inch 10-Tooth Jig Saw Blades, 5-Pack: Home Improvement

They get good reviews, see the bottom.


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## Shesho

Thank you. Interesting you say the thicker blade is better, I guess that makes sense as its more rigid. I expect this does apply to the japanese saw which has a very thin blade, though the fact its pull cut only supposedly makes up for that.

I could do with some cheap wood to practice on now really. I dont have any though =P.. but I can find some.

Do you think scoring with a marking knife is worth doing?


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## Dave Paine

Scoring with a knife is worth doing if you are cutting plywood and want to minimize tearout.

If you are cutting solid wood, I do not expect scoring with a knife will help.

If you want to help keeping the cut on track, try marking TWO lines. I use this trick for cutting on a bandsaw. I read this in a magazine tip and find it is easier to track between two lines than to keep to the side of 1 line.


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## woodnthings

*I did say "thicker".... I said wider*



Shesho said:


> Thank you. Interesting you say the *thicker* blade is better, I guess that makes sense as its more rigid. I expect this does apply to the japanese saw which has a very thin blade, though the fact its pull cut only supposedly makes up for that.


The wider the plane of the blade the less tendency to turn within the kerf. Thin blades are easier to pull because they remove less material from the kerf. The Japaese have been doing this for centuries and have figured out the physics involved. Pulling on a blade or anything flexible like string, wire etc. automatically straightens it out. Pushing on the same blade may cause it to buckle. The English and American standard of a push saw is really against the simple physics involved. :blink: bill


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## amckenzie4

Lots of practice will solve the problem of a wandering blade, I'm told. I'm not quite there yet. For a cut that long, you might want to think about a sawbench: there's a good article (and plans!) here. A meter and a half is awfully long to try ripping while it's vertical... I've tried it, and it's not really practical. A sawbench is a cheap and easy way get that board flat, where you can steady it more easily. You may also want to stop and flip the board over once in a while -- every 15cm or so. If you've marked both sides, that will help make sure the blade is actually tracking the line on BOTH sides.

You don't mention what kind of wood, or how thick. I have a similar (although possibly lower quality) Ryoba, and I don't really like ripping anything thicker than 3/4" pine with it; it just moves too slowly. I'll cross cut up to around 6", but beyond that it's just too wide: I'm losing most of each stroke. For thicker wood I move to a Western-style saw with a 28" blade for ripping, or a similar Western-style saw filed crosscut or a different Japanese saw for cross cutting.

Bear in mind that the rip is going to take a while. My fastest saw cuts around 1cm per stroke in 7.5cm (if I've done my math right -- around 3") Douglas fir. My Ryoba is slower than that. Take it slow, don't rush, and if you're going to use that Ryoba, make sure it's perfectly on the line when the teeth you're not using enter the cut.


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## Wrangler02

I use a Western style rip saw for that kind of cut. With a well tuned saw, I can usually stay within 1/2 mm of the line. A couple of passes with a jointer plane and it is ready for glue-up.


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## Puma

I have ripped 10 foot white oak boards, lots of them, with a ryoba. Elevate one end and stand on the other, like a seesaw. You won't need a guide and in fact it's a hinderance. Start your cut slowly and carefully and your ryoba will cut true guided by your eye. Resist the urge to push the saw too fast as it will bend the blade out of square and the saw will wander. The best saw for this job is a longer Japanese carpenter ryoba but yours will get the job done. 

I started with a medium ryoba and thought "this will take millennia", bought a bandsaw and ended up going back to the ryoba because it's far more accurate.


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