# Kitchen Cabinet stain & top coat varnish finish



## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

Hello,
I purchased my lower kitchen cabinets last week from Conestoga.
I ordered unfinished to save myself a couple thousands. 
I've finished many new pieces of furniture and refinished old furniture the past 35 years, but this will be my first kitchen cabinet project.
I already have a Graco TruecoatII sprayer and the tip especially for top coat varnishes.

My question is, what is your recommendation for good stains and top coats.

I wanted to stain the cabinets in a Walnut Stain.

Has anyone used either of these products?
I was trying to stick with an oil based product because I've been told it holds up better.

A LakeOne product.
http://alliedpiano.com/index.php/products/antiquing-wood-stain-walnut

OldMasters
http://www.myoldmasters.com/products-penetrating-stains.htm

As far as the top coat goes.

I was thinking:
ZAR Antique Flat Ultra Max Oil Modified Polyurethane
What is the major difference between oil modified and water based?
On most of my smaller projects, I've just used waterbased, but really want to give these cabinets a more professional look.

Assuming the ZAR Flat or ZAR Satin are both just as wipe-able?

I didn't want to go with any type of semi or gloss product.

Thanks for any direction you can give me.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

What species? :huh:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

We have an introduction section where you can say a few words about yourself. If you fill out your profile in your "User Control Panel", you can list any hobbies, experience or other facts. You can also list your general geographical location which would be a help in answering some questions. In doing that your location will show under your username when you post. 












 








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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Of the two stains you have listed I've only used the Old Masters. It works good. 

If you are going with the walnut color I would finish it with a oil based polyurethane. It would be more durable. To answer you question on the oil modified polyurethane it's almost the same as water based polyurethane only it has oils added to it to make if flow out better and would make the finish slightly harder.


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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

oops, thought I did that already  let me go add it. I'm on a couple VB forums, including one I run (not related to woodworking) so I forgot I didn't add and do the intro section 


As for the species, The ones I am staining are Cherry. I was going to order Walnut but the cost was higher. Trying to keep within my budget so I can also order a black walnut top for my island, the same for a small painted cabinet and Quartz counters for the rest of the kitchen.
So the next best thing was Cherry.

I like the warmth of Cherry, but didn't want the more red color you typically get from Cherry or Mahogany stain because of the room color I want along with adjoining rooms.

I'm from Eastern PA


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

DIY-Her said:


> oops, thought I did that already  let me go add it. I'm on a couple VB forums, including one I run (not related to woodworking) so I forgot I didn't add and do the intro section
> 
> 
> As for the species, The ones I am staining are Cherry. I was going to order Walnut but the cost was higher. Trying to keep within my budget so I can also order a black walnut top for my island, the same for a small painted cabinet and Quartz counters for the rest of the kitchen.
> ...


For what you are doing you could have saved more money by using alder. Alder can be stained to look like many different kinds of wood.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

An oil modified will give more of an open time than a straight waterbased product. You could use a waterbased polyurethane as a top coat, once the stain has cured. You should make samples if you are trying to make look alike species. Finish the sample to the top coat stage, as that will appear differently than when it's just stained.








 








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## Rick Mosher (Feb 26, 2009)

Better make samples before starting in on your cabinets. A wipe on wipe off stain can look horrible on cherry. You may have to look into using a conditioner or using a different stain technique.


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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

thanks :thumbsup:

Already way ahead of you with testing. That was my plan in the beginning.

I planned to take some drawer backs since once screwed onto the drawer box you don't see them.

Here are 3 different brands. I always have Minwax in the garage because I stain my own wood frames for canvas floater frames.
A few days ago I bought a small can of Old Masters, and yesterday my husband bought me the Lake One to try.

So, the brands used are all considered dark walnut.
Minwax, Old Masters and Lake One.
2 of them have one topcoat just of satin poly so I have a better idea of how the grain color changes.
The darker drawer was done real late last night and does not have a topcoat.

Out of curiosity, wonder if anyone can match which they think are what brand.
Each one was wiped on and each seemed to take to the wood differently










As for Alder, I've stained Alder wood in the past with smaller projects. I wanted to go Cherry this time


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Just my likes and dislikes, I don't really like any of them. With that said, you might like them. Doesn't matter what I think. I've done work that my clients pick the finish, and I don't have to like it. As long as they do, because they write the checks.

They appear that some conditioner might have been tried (just as a sample). My preferences are that I don't stain Cherry.








 








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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

thanks, I'm noticing it seems to be a guy thing that don't like to stain Cherry wood.
I'm going with a Quartz countertop that looks like white marble, so need a contrasting cabinet.
Actually, I didn't use conditioner on any of them, but know I should once I do the actual cabinets.

The one in the middle seemed to get blotchy where the top and bottom didn't.

So far I like the color of the top one, but taking a photo of it actually made it look more reddish when it's not. I'ts more of a warm brown with a slight undertone of red from the Cherry.
The picture I posted just doesn't do it justice.
This is sort of the look I am going for. All my uppers are Antique White, and my lowers are stained.

http://www.houzz.com/photos/2115549/Kitchen-by-Maggie-Grants-traditional-kitchen-houston

The bottom one is Old Masters that I put on 2 coats and it seems really too light for putting on 2 coats.

What do you consider the best way to condition the wood?
I know you can buy conditioner pre-made in a can, but considering I have 7 cabinets to stain, thought their might be another way to do it.
I think I saw a Youtube video a few weeks ago about it, but I'd have to search it again to see if they gave an actual recipe.


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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

so, can anyone tell me the best way to condition the wood before staining?

This is the first time I'll be staining cherry wood.
I've done oak, walnut, mahogany, maple, alder and couple pieces of pine I did years ago.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

A wood conditioner is a sealer. The type wood that is prone to blotch has places softer than others and the stain soaks into the softer places more than dark spots. When you use a conditioner the softer parts of the wood soak up more of the conditioner so when you stain it the color comes out more uniform. A lot of folks here are fond of the Charles Neil wood conditioner. He is also a member of the forum. I haven't used it so I can't personally say how well it works. I've always mixed boiled linseed oil 50/50 with mineral spirits and let it dry before staining. Some wood conditioners like Minwax recommend you stain with I think 30 minutes. Anyway each conditioner is going to work different so follow the directions. 

Really the better way to get a uniform color is if you have the means of spraying. A dye stain such as Mohawk Ultra Penetrating Stain would stain more uniform. You would just spray it on with a paint sprayer at lot pressure.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

DIY-Her said:


> so, can anyone tell me the best way to condition the wood before staining?
> 
> This is the first time I'll be staining cherry wood.
> I've done oak, walnut, mahogany, maple, alder and couple pieces of pine I did years ago.


For some wood a uniform sanding to 220x might take stain more evenly. You could use Zinsser Seal Coat and mix 50/50 with denatured alcohol and wipe on. A conditioner is basically a sealer, and it can prevent the penetration of a stain. It doesn't necessarily only absorb into the soft parts of the wood, but absorbs into all the wood. 








 








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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

thanks so much, appreciate your knowledge 
Just did a Google search and found this
http://www.rockler.com/zinsser-bullseye-sealcoat
I checked out the reviews on Rockler, and the only one I am questioning is the very last one that they guy said it changed the color of his wood.
So people use this for more than a wood conditioner? One person on the list said they have used it as a top coat on some things.

Guessing I could also find it at Sherwin Williams store, or maybe Home Depot or Lowes. I've bought Zinsser primer and is what I sprayed on all my upper cabinets and center island before I sprayed the 2 topcoats of paint.


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## FrancescoIgnagn (Mar 7, 2014)

I recommend you to use oil based stain. The best product for that is Pre strain wood conditioner that is fade resistance and gives you a long lasting beauty.


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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

thanks Frances. 
I was just searching a name of a stain color from a local kitchen company and found the same color name made by General Finishes in the dye stain.
I don't see mention that the dye stain is oil based?

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/gf90073/

Do all dye stains have to be sprayed?

I know Conestoga Woods is big on doing hand rubbed stains on all their cabinets that are prefinished.


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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

I took a better photo with the correct white balance in camera 
This time the photo's white balance is truer to what the stain actually looks like compared to the first one I posted a couple days ago.


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## DIY-Her (Feb 14, 2014)

Still looking for the best product for a durable topcoat for my cherry kitchen cabinets.

Started looking into General Finishes.
Went to a somewhat local woodworking store and came home with 2 pints of stain color I want to try, and 1 pint of top coat that is an oil wipe on by General Finishes called Arm R Seal.
It looks like a nice product, but I don't think I want to use it for my cabinets.

I'm thinking their Enduro-Var water based in satin might be a better choice. They list it as one of their best and hardest waterbased that is closest to an oil bast top coat.
Anyone here used it yet?

http://www.rockler.com/general-finishes-enduro-var-water-based-urethane-satin


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