# Good for a beginer or big mistake?



## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

I got today from WoodCraft WoodRiver brand 4 piece chisel set. 
From Harbor Freight I picked up a #4 smoothing plane. 

Were these bad buys or a good place to start learning?


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> I got today from WoodCraft WoodRiver brand 4 piece chisel set.
> From Harbor Freight I picked up a #4 smoothing plane.
> 
> Were these bad buys or a good place to start learning?


Was this the chisel set? How did you intend to use these?

The steel does not look bad. I am not sure how the wooden handles will hold up over time if you will be tapping these with a mallet.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2082796/31499/woodriver-4-piece-butt-chisel-set.aspx

Was this the hand plane

http://www.harborfreight.com/no-4-jack-and-mini-plane-set-92553.html

Or this one?

http://www.harborfreight.com/no-33-bench-plane-97544.html

If you can return it I would. It would help you understand how to sharpen a blade, likely not good steel so may need to be sharpened often.

If you return it I will send you the Stanley No 4 I just restored. This will be a much better user than either of these HF planes.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/plane-restore-round-3-a-47883/


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Yes, that first harbor freight link was the set I bought... I had a feeling it was going to be junk.

Here is a link to a picture of the chisel set. They have synthetic handles. They don't seem to be on Woodcraft's website.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> Yes, that first harbor freight link was the set I bought... I had a feeling it was going to be junk.
> 
> Here is a link to a picture of the chisel set. They have synthetic handles. They don't seem to be on Woodcraft's website.


You lost the link.

If they have synthetic handles, they should last. I have a set of Irwin's with plastic handles. Mine are about the same blade length as your's. They work for shallow mortise's etc. The plastic can take a pounding from the mallet.

I would use either wood or plastic mallet. I have an Estwing dead blow plastic mallet which I use.


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

I have been watching some videos by Paul Sellers on youtube and I want to try some of his chisel techniques. Same thing with the plane. I want to learn some of these techniques... it would seem faster at times then setting up a piece of equipment to do something that a hand plane can be finished with before you get said power tool setup.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

When I set out to add chisels and planes, I stupidly did not think to budget time and money to take care of them properly (bevel/hone)


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Sorry, WoodRiver Chisel Set, 4 Piece:Amazon:Home Improvement

I picked up a rubber mallet for the chisels, I want to make my own wooden mallet down the road.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> I have been watching some videos by Paul Sellers on youtube and I want to try some of his chisel techniques. Same thing with the plane. I want to learn some of these techniques... it would seem faster at times then setting up a piece of equipment to do something that a hand plane can be finished with before you get said power tool setup.


Yes, sometimes a hand tool is faster, sometimes easier, and sometimes it can be a pleasure.

I enjoy planing the edge of a rough board with a hand plane. I can get it straight, but may not be 90 deg, but the planing is almost therapy and a lot easier than power tools.


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## Woodwart (Dec 11, 2012)

Get yourself some sharpening tools. I use a 1000 and a 4000 grit waterstone. If I need to put a preliminary bevel on it, I use a belt sander, then put a secondary bevel on with the two waterstones. About half of my chisels are HD cheapies, but even so they can be kept sharp and serviceable, even though I may sharpen them more often than my LV chisels.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

If you want to build a wooden mallet just look thru some of the mallet threads ATM. There is some awesome work out there and great inspiration. Does not matter your experience you can make something to be proud of.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks Dave, I have been following the mallet swap threads. There are some seriously neat mallets flying around. Maybe by swap 5 or 6 I'll be ready to participate =).


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> Thanks Dave, I have been following the mallet swap threads. There are some seriously neat mallets flying around. Maybe by swap 5 or 6 I'll be ready to participate =).


I'm sure you could do it now. Some of those guys it was the first time they had done anything like it and they were not particularly experienced woodworkers. For me it was the first mallet I've ever made bit I am a carpenter so an advantage there for me.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

I just read the back of the chisel set... says they need to be honed before use.... that would have been nice to know before I left the store with no honing tools.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> I just read the back of the chisel set... says they need to be honed before use.... that would have been nice to know before I left the store with no honing tools.


A lesson well learnt 

You will find, depending on use that you will home them regularly. Sometimes as an apprentice I would hone daily or more and grind once a week.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

For a beginner do you think I should get a honing jig? I see some on woodcraft. I'm assuming angle is important when doing this? I've got a ton of sanding to do this week anyways so I "need" to use the chisels right away.


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## USMCSergeant (Aug 21, 2012)

Angle is very important in sharpening and a jig may be the best way to put a nice sharp edge on your tools. Free hand is the way to go, but it takes a lot of practice. The jig will help you learn the angle and soon enough you'll know the angle by the feel of the edge on the stone. When you can start to feel the edge, you are ready to learn freehand.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> For a beginner do you think I should get a honing jig? I see some on woodcraft. I'm assuming angle is important when doing this? I've got a ton of sanding to do this week anyways so I "need" to use the chisels right away.


There are a number of recent threads about sharpening.

Here is one about an inexpensive jig.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/robert-larson-honing-guide-47832/

I know how to sharpen a blade, but I admit I do not - yet - have the muscle memory to sharpen.

I purchased a jig and it has removed my frustration in sharpening.

I can now get a straight edge, which is square and a consistent angle each time.

There are a number of people who can sharpen free hand, but I feel a jig is so useful for the rest of us.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> I just read the back of the chisel set... says they need to be honed before use.... that would have been nice to know before I left the store with no honing tools.


I use a granite slab, and wet-dry sand paper.

If you do not have a granite slab, use MDF and wet-dry paper and flatten the back of the chisels. You can use the paper dry so the MDF does not swell with fluid.

You should be able to hone the chisels by hand as another reply mentioned. Good enough for first time, but a jig will help keep the edge flat and the correct angle.


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks for all this information. I'm getting really excited to try some hand tool work!


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> Thanks for all this information. I'm getting really excited to try some hand tool work!


Good to hear, but just be warned, it can be addictive. :icon_smile:

One hand plane will not be enough. :laughing:


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## Woodwart (Dec 11, 2012)

I bought a Stanley kit at HD that contains a carborundum oil stone and a jig, for $10.95. I use the stone for sharpening kitchen knives, but the jig works very well for honing both plane blades and chisels on my waterstones.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> For a beginner do you think I should get a honing jig? I see some on woodcraft. I'm assuming angle is important when doing this? I've got a ton of sanding to do this week anyways so I "need" to use the chisels right away.


I don't really bother too much about the angle but have been doing it for years. I start at about 35° at a guess and get slightly steeper each time I hone until I'm ready to regrind.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm certainly not going to say anyone else here was wrong about sharpening (as far as I know, they weren't!) but the jigs never worked for me, and I never could get the hang of a single bevel or microbevel. I saw a lecture Paul Sellers gave at a woodworking show, and he did a demo of his method of sharpening (the convex bevel), and my tools have been cutting better and better ever since.

So keep trying different sharpening methods: the one that works for you may not be the first you try. I wasted a year messing around with careful measurements and jigs, and never got a tool that worked right. You might spend a year messing around with convex bevels and never get a tool that works right. The main thing is, don't let anyone tell you there's one right way to sharpen: the "right way" is the one that gives you sharp tools.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

amckenzie4 said:


> So keep trying different sharpening methods: the one that works for you may not be the first you try.
> The main thing is, don't let anyone tell you there's one right way to sharpen: the "right way" is the one that gives you sharp tools.


Agree on finding a method which works for each of us.

So much in woodworking can be done in many ways. What works for one person may not work for another.

There are a spectrum of jigs. I did not get my workable sharpening solution until I got the Lee Valley Mk II honing guide.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078,51868

Not cheap, but for me this one allows me to get the blade sharpened with the consistency I wanted


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

So... I wanted to see if I could try out my chisels tonight. So I stopped at Orange box and picked up a Norton stone and some oil. Either I'm not doing it correctly or this stone is worth about the $5 I paid for it... After spending about 5mins doing several passes on the coarse and fine sides of the stone, I couldn't hammer the 3/4 chisel more then maybe an 1/16th of an inch into a small block of pine.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> So... I wanted to see if I could try out my chisels tonight. So I stopped at Orange box and picked up a Norton stone and some oil. Either I'm not doing it correctly or this stone is worth about the $5 I paid for it... After spending about 5mins doing several passes on the coarse and fine sides of the stone, I couldn't hammer the 3/4 chisel more then maybe an 1/16th of an inch into a small block of pine.


Are you getting a burr on the back of the blade?

If you are not matching the original angle, you can hone the face but not get to the edge.

Been there, done that.

Check that you have a burr on the back side with coarse and fine sides of the stone.


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Yes, I was getting a burr after each pass on coarse and fine. I would lay the chisel flat and pull on the fine to remove the burr... but it didn't seem very sharp and definitely didn't perform well on pine.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

BKBuilds said:


> Yes, I was getting a burr after each pass on coarse and fine. I would lay the chisel flat and pull on the fine to remove the burr... but it didn't seem very sharp and definitely didn't perform well on pine.


Pine can be tricky with even with the sharpest of chisels. 

'IF' you use your stone to take off the burr my practice is to 'push' in the direction of the cut for my final few passes. Absolutely flat on the back, then the bevel, then back, then the bevel and finally drag cutting edge sideways thru a timber block to remove any remnants of a burr or strop the chisel in the palm of my hand like a barber does a a blade on a leather belt.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

If it is one of the cheap blue/grey oil stones that feel really rough even on the fine side, you should only use that for establishing a bevel and then proceed to other methods to sharpen and hone. Do you know what the "grit" size is on your stones? If it really was that cheap, then there is no way it is fine enough to really sharpen and put good edges on your tools. The cheapest (in the short run) way to go is with wet/dry sandpaper to get fine enough grits to really hone your blades.


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Yes its the blue / grey stone and it really was $5 for the stone and $5 for the oil. It is pretty rough on both sides. I figured it was probably not going to work very well. Any suggestions on some decent stones? Coarse / fine / ultra fine?


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## tim407 (Nov 24, 2012)

You're def learning a lot of lessons the hard way lol. 

Invest in you're new hobby. Don't skimp on quality to save a buck or you'll save money but pay in time and frustration. 

You don't need a ton of tools to start out. You have chisels already... Get a few high quality planes (stanely bailey users or veritas) I'd say a 5 and 7 to start out with. Then a set ofJapanese pull saws (the price will tell u why, later you can invest in higher quality saws after you get the hang of things) then buy a good quality set of water stones (lie Nielsen and lee valley sell sharpening sets) and a plate of glass or granite and 220 wet dry sandpaper to flatten the stones as you use them. Also a hand drill and a few bits. Do it online and you can knock it out in one shot. These will get you started down the road of hand tool wood working. 

Throw in a router plane, coping saw, spoke shave, scraper, scrub and number 4 plane, marking gauge, mortising chisels, shoulder and rabbet plane, a gouge or two and u can make anything y can imagine up!! 

Bottom line, like it or not you're going to pay, woodworking isn't a cheap hobby. But remember you'll be cranking out heirlooms worth 200, 300, 400 and up in no time out of wood worth a quarter of that. Your tools pay for themselves over time.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

It all depends on how much you want to spend. I use a combination waterstone that is a 1000/6000. If I remember right it cost about $50. Others will go even higher grit to an 8000 or 10-12000. When you start looking at individual stones of higher grit, they start at about $80-100 and can go much higher.

Personally, if your decision is to go the waterstone route I'd recommend starting with a combo stone in the 1000/4-6000 range. It is affordable and after you use it for a while you can decide if you want to continue with stones and get some with even higher grit for an even finer edge. With waterstones, you will also need some way to flatten the stones after some use. I currently use wet/dry paper on plate glass for flattening my stone.

Another option is diamond impregnated plates which will sharpen very fast - but at a higher cost.

For a really fine edge many people will use a leather strop with abrasive compound after their regular sharpening.

You also have the option of using the sandpaper method with wet/dry paper and a flat surface. This has the advantage of being very low cost initially. 

There are really lots of options - and proponents of each method. As others have said above, each method has it's advantages and disadvantages and no one method is right or wrong. Pick a method that fits your budget and sounds good to you - and stick with it.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

I got myself a diamond stone over 20 years ago, think it cost me around $40 back then. I still use it today. 


Some guys say use water on a stone and not oil. I think Dave Paine might agree there. I use water on my diamond stone, even spit on it if nothing else available. Works great.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

Ok... Got a set of King water stones 1000/4000/8000 and a leather strop and chromium oxide.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

:thumbsup: I think you'll be very happy with those stones.


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## Chris Curl (Jan 1, 2013)

i moved my sharpening post to a new thread ...


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## BKBuilds (Jan 12, 2013)

I would like to say a big Thank you to Dave Paine for selling me a No 4 Bailey that he restored! I can't wait to give it a go.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Dave.


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