# Japanese woodworking



## igster

We are truly spoiled. I happened on a YouTube video of a japanese woodworker making a beautiful multidrawer chest of sorts...this dude does everything by hand, no power tools. Draw saws, hand-made block planes, jigs...and done entirely sitting down on the floor! Talk about patience... https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL09DB487D66855B9A&v=G_sGwQ3bMv8


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## woodnthings

*art vs craft*

The Japanese take woodworking to a different level, I'd call it art. We woodworkers, are good enough and some are outstanding, but we would still fare a bit behind their best....JMO. They have an apprentice and master system if I recall correctly, just like in their metal work, chisels and blade making:
http://www.kiarts.com/

Having visted Japan and seen their work first hand it's quite impressive. Their whole theory of pulling planes and saws runs contrary to the historical push method of the early English cabinet makers which is what we still use today. However, the pull style saws are becoming more popular recently. The physics of pulling a thin sawblade straightens it out much like pulling on a rope. Pushing on a rope is at best futile and most unrewarding. Pulling on the handplane puts more of the upperbody muscles into the movement and is more controllable. It is easier to lift off at the end of a pull stoke near your body than when it's at arm's length.


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## Al B Thayer

I looked at a book on their joinery and was amazed. Maybe I should have bought it. I like the way their tools work and use Japanese saws. Can't justify buying a plane because I don't use them enough. I think you have to spend a lot to get a good one and the cheap ones aren't cheap. Same for the rest of their tools. 

Al


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## BigJim

Wow, yep, I would say were are for sure spoiled, that is a true craftsman.


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## epicfail48

Al B Thayer said:


> I looked at a book on their joinery and was amazed. Maybe I should have bought it. I like the way their tools work and use Japanese saws. Can't justify buying a plane because I don't use them enough. I think you have to spend a lot to get a good one and the cheap ones aren't cheap. Same for the rest of their tools.
> 
> Al


I'll attest to the pull saws being fantastic. One of the cheapy double sided ones is the only hand powered saw in my shop, and I've never wised for another. I do wish I could afford a plane. Ah well, guess I have to use my block plane backwards


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## Al B Thayer

epicfail48 said:


> I'll attest to the pull saws being fantastic. One of the cheapy double sided ones is the only hand powered saw in my shop, and I've never wised for another. I do wish I could afford a plane. Ah well, guess I have to use my block plane backwards


Buying the plane is only half the cost. Having the correct stones and tools to sharpen them puts it up there too. 

Al


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## epicfail48

Al B Thayer said:


> Buying the plane is only half the cost. Having the correct stones and tools to sharpen them puts it up there too.
> 
> Al


Ill be perfectly honest, I've never understood the whole "you need the best stones too sharpen the best tool right!" argument. Sure, harder metals need nharder materials to cut them, a and sure, a shapton stone, for example, may last longer, but I get a mirror edge on nearly anything with a piece of sandpaper


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## Al B Thayer

epicfail48 said:


> Ill be perfectly honest, I've never understood the whole "you need the best stones too sharpen the best tool right!" argument. Sure, harder metals need nharder materials to cut them, a and sure, a shapton stone, for example, may last longer, but I get a mirror edge on nearly anything with a piece of sandpaper


Me too but the Japanese tools are on a much higher level. They make Fe$tool look like a piker. Have you ever seen the contest where they try to make the thinnest shaving with a plane? Nothing from the west comes close. 

Al


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## epicfail48

I wont disagree that the quality of the tools is head and shoulders above western equipment. Japanese steel is on a whole nother level. Wish i could get my hands on some, maybe some chisels, but then again id still be sharpening them with sandpaper


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## Al B Thayer

epicfail48 said:


> I wont disagree that the quality of the tools is head and shoulders above western equipment. Japanese steel is on a whole nother level. Wish i could get my hands on some, maybe some chisels, but then again id still be sharpening them with sandpaper


After your sandpaper. Try this.
http://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+wood+plane+competition&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Al


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## Oneal-Woodworking

epicfail48 said:


> I wont disagree that the quality of the tools is head and shoulders above western equipment. Japanese steel is on a whole nother level. Wish i could get my hands on some, maybe some chisels, but then again id still be sharpening them with sandpaper


THIS is why I never loan out cutting tools... :no:


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## epicfail48

With the right steel i believe i could. Id also need a miracle, robot hands, and heck, while im at it lets throw in a million bucks. That video... just holy cow. Kinda reinforces the point that, no matter how good you are, there will always be an asian guy better than you


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## Al B Thayer

epicfail48 said:


> With the right steel i believe i could. Id also need a miracle, robot hands, and heck, while im at it lets throw in a million bucks. That video... just holy cow. Kinda reinforces the point that, no matter how good you are, there will always be an asian guy better than you


The worst Asian guy is better than me. If you want to try your hand at making a blade. You can buy Damascus steel on eBay. I'm going too one of these days.

Al


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## epicfail48

Al B Thayer said:


> The worst Asian guy is better than me. If you want to try your hand at making a blade. You can buy Damascus steel on eBay. I'm going too one of these days.
> 
> Al


I have actuallly


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## GeorgeC

igster said:


> We are truly spoiled. I happened on a YouTube video of a japanese woodworker making a beautiful multidrawer chest of sorts...this dude does everything by hand, no power tools. Draw saws, hand-made block planes, jigs...and done entirely sitting down on the floor! Talk about patience... https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL09DB487D66855B9A&v=G_sGwQ3bMv8


We are not spoiled in any sense of the word any more than is a person who builds an automobile on a modern assembly line. Should technology stand still and everyone still work the way they did 200 years ago?

There are craftsmen in the US who still use the "by hand" method of building. The tools of the two craftsman are different. But they both turn out exquisite products.

The typical woodworker in the US uses power tools because that is a quicker, easier and often more accurate method of building. Japan also has their woodworkers who build that way.

I certainly agree that the pull saw is much easier to use.

George


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## epicfail48

OnealWoodworking said:


> THIS is why I never loan out cutting tools... :no:


I resent that. You loan a chisel to me and you'll get it back sharper than you handed it to me, like as not. Like I've already said, fancy gear isn't needed to get a razor edge


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## Al B Thayer

GeorgeC said:


> We are not spoiled in any sense of the word any more than is a person who builds an automobile on a modern assembly line. Should technology stand still and everyone still work the way they did 200 years ago?
> 
> There are craftsmen in the US who still use the "by hand" method of building. The tools of the two craftsman are different. But they both turn out exquisite products.
> 
> The typical woodworker in the US uses power tools because that is a quicker, easier and often more accurate method of building. Japan also has their woodworkers who build that way.
> 
> I certainly agree that the pull saw is much easier to use.
> 
> George


Hell has frozen over. We both use pull saws. 

Al


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## mwevre

Edo Cabinetwork/Joinery - from the title of the video.


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## Oneal-Woodworking

epicfail48 said:


> I resent that. You loan a chisel to me and you'll get it back sharper than you handed it to me, like as not. Like I've already said, fancy gear isn't needed to get a razor edge


That is the way things 'should' be if you loan a tool out. The person that borrows it should always go out of their way to return it in the same or 'better' condition and be willing to replace it if nessesary with a like model 'if' they happen to break it.

I commend you for your views on that subject and wish more people shared your beliefs with respect to that. :yes:

Sandpaper alone is NOT how one gets a good sharp edge on a cutting tool. Please explain how you maintain your cutting angles with just some sandpaper and no 'fancy gear'?

How do you control how much you take off and how would you manage to control a perfectly straight line across a longer edge if needed with 'sandpaper'?

Can you do a hollow grind with that sandpaper yet?


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## epicfail48

OnealWoodworking said:


> That is the way things 'should' be if you loan a tool out. The person that borrows it should always go out of their way to return it in the same or 'better' condition and be willing to replace it if nessesary with a like model 'if' they happen to break it.
> 
> I commend you for your views on that subject and wish more people shared your beliefs with respect to that. :yes:
> 
> Sandpaper alone is NOT how one gets a good sharp edge on a cutting tool. Please explain how you maintain your cutting angles with just some sandpaper and no 'fancy gear'?
> 
> How do you control how much you take off and how would you manage to control a perfectly straight line across a longer edge if needed with 'sandpaper'?
> 
> Can you do a hollow grind with that sandpaper yet?


The same way people have been doing it for several thousand years, by hand. Sandpaper alone is how I get a proper edge, and it works fine for me and millions of people. Google the scary sharp method, you'd be surprised how well it works.

Why would in want to do a hollow grind? If I wanted no material being the cutting edge, I'd buy a thinner blade


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## GeorgeC

epicfail48 said:


> With the right steel i believe i could. Id also need a miracle, robot hands, and heck, while im at it lets throw in a million bucks. That video... just holy cow. Kinda reinforces the point that, no matter how good you are, there will always be an asian guy better than you


Just what makes you think that some "Asian guy" is the worlds best woodworker?

George


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## epicfail48

GeorgeC said:


> Just what makes you think that some "Asian guy" is the worlds best woodworker?
> 
> George


Its an old internet joke


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## hazimkazim

It coud be done with the genuine steel


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