# Tool rest holder broken?



## Dynikus

tl;dr - My tool rest holder broke. What do?

I just got my first lathe off craigslist for 60 bucks. It came with a full set of 8 tools, plus a shop vac. It was quite rusty, and not the best quality (old harbor freight lathe. There's a plate on it that says it was manufactured in '93.) but I figured it would be good enough to start out on. The motor still ran well, and after a bit of elbow grease, most of the rust was gone. After I cleaned everything up right nice, I wanted to go ahead and spin my first ever piece of wood. I was going to make a kendama. So I loaded up a probably 12"x2" diamter poplar dowel, and got to spinning. Maybe... 5-10 minutes in, I noticed my tool rest was starting to move. So I shut it off, and after clearing off some wood, I noticed the piece that holds my tool rest broke!










What should I do? Should I try to find a replacement, or is it worth it to get it welded? If I were to get it welded, would it likely just break again?

update: I'm going to try to jb weld the pieces together, then bolt and jb weld 4 1/8" thick steel bars along both sides. I'll let you know in 24 hours if it works


----------



## hughie

Dynikus said:


> tl;dr - My tool rest holder broke. What do?
> 
> I just got my first lathe off craigslist for 60 bucks. It came with a full set of 8 tools, plus a shop vac. It was quite rusty, and not the best quality (old harbor freight lathe. There's a plate on it that says it was manufactured in '93.) but I figured it would be good enough to start out on. The motor still ran well, and after a bit of elbow grease, most of the rust was gone. After I cleaned everything up right nice, I wanted to go ahead and spin my first ever piece of wood. I was going to make a kendama. So I loaded up a probably 12"x2" diamter poplar dowel, and got to spinning. Maybe... 5-10 minutes in, I noticed my tool rest was starting to move. So I shut it off, and after clearing off some wood, I noticed the piece that holds my tool rest broke!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What should I do? Should I try to find a replacement, or is it worth it to get it welded? If I were to get it welded, would it likely just break again?



Replacement might be the way to go. As welding might be expensive unless you have some one to have a go at it. Breaking, no it shouldn't break on the weld. Although the whole banjo looks a light weight for my thinking.


----------



## Dynikus

Looking at some of the other rests I saw while looking for a replacement, this one does seem a bit light weight. Where should I look to find a new one? and are they universal, or are there different sizes to fit different lathes?


----------



## Tommie Hockett

I would just have it welded most shops around here would only charge you 15 or 20 dollars to do it but I don't know about where you live prices may be higher where you are


----------



## Dynikus

I'll look into welding before I get a replacement for sure. Would it be possible that dull tools could have put more pressure on the rest than sharp tools would have? I was too antsy to start spinning that I haven't had a chance to get a bench grinder yet to sharpen up the tools I got with it, so they're definitely on the dull side.


----------



## spinks

Looking at it, that piece looks cast...an absolute swine to weld properly and the rods are uber uber expensive!!


----------



## robert421960

Dynikus said:


> I'll look into welding before I get a replacement for sure. Would it be possible that dull tools could have put more pressure on the rest than sharp tools would have? I was too antsy to start spinning that I haven't had a chance to get a bench grinder yet to sharpen up the tools I got with it, so they're definitely on the dull side.


when you turn with dull tools you push harder and then the result is more down force so 
YES!!!


----------



## ironman123

What model number is your lathe? Can you take a picture of the lathe?

Someone with a milling machine could make what you need from a steel flat with a block or heavy wall pipe welded on the end and bored to the size of your toolrest post.

I waited for a part for a HF tool to come from China for 73 days one time. Now I just make it.

Good luck.

Ray


----------



## Steve Neul

I do enough welding to tell you that it can be welded however it won't last very long. Cast iron doesn't weld very good and it takes a lot more skill than most welders are able to do. There is not enough metal there for a lock and stitch so it would have to rely on the weld alone. I think if I was going that route I would attempt to fabricate a piece of 1/8" to 1/4" flat steel to add underneath it to re-enforce the banjo. It looks like about 1" space in the center. You could use a bi-metal hole saw and drill the hole on each end of the steel bar and cut the most of the center out with a carborundom blade.


----------



## Hwood

Its cast. I got a broken one myself in the garage. Look on the 'bay' and you should find plenty there, but if you can make a better one that would be best. I would bet your head stock is also cast, got a broken one of them in the garage also :[


----------



## Dynikus

robert421960 said:


> when you turn with dull tools you push harder and then the result is more down force so
> YES!!!


that's exactly what I was thinking, thanks. 



ironman123 said:


> What model number is your lathe? Can you take a picture of the lathe?
> 
> Someone with a milling machine could make what you need from a steel flat with a block or heavy wall pipe welded on the end and bored to the size of your toolrest post.
> 
> I waited for a part for a HF tool to come from China for 73 days one time. Now I just make it.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Ray


This sounds like probably my best bet unless I can find one cheap on ebay. One question though, if I were to do it this way, would I also have to have a hole drilled and tapped into the side of the pipe so I could fit the bolt that locks the tool rest in place?
oh, and here's the model number and everything.


----------



## cuerodoc

First, Welcome to the forum!
Second--about the banjo, get another. Ebay is a good source for ones like you have pictured. Seems to be a bit on the light duty side.
You might want to $pend a little more and get one more like a delta/rockwell that I think would do you better. Will check to see if I have one (I do a lot on ebay).
Dave H


----------



## cuerodoc

Ok, I looked-- no banjos laying around-- must've sold em. Don't think I'd wait on a part from HF, loooong wait-- unless the store has a return that they may sell ya a part.
I did look on ebay-- look under "lathe tool holder", you'll find some interspersed there that may fill the bill-- were a couple at $29 ??
Jus trying to help.
Dave H


----------



## khowald

Welcome! Ebay is the place to start. If you feel you are going to stay with that lathe I think it might be worth your while to call a machine shop and just see how much they would charge to fabricate the piece out of steel...you may be happily surprised by the cost and you then know it will last. ken


----------



## Steve Neul

If you are going to attempt to repair the banjo with an epoxy I would recommend using PC-7.

A banjo doesn't have to be the same brand to make the lathe functional. There is banjo on ebay for a 1 1/4" tool rest for about 10 bucks that is similar to yours. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wood-Lathe-...520?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19dc908288


----------



## john lucas

The best way is to find a welder or machinist to simply build a new one. The bottom is extremely easy to build. Just lay 2 pieces side by side with the gap for the bolt. Make 2 short pieces to go in between and then weld them up. Shouldn't be too hard to find a piece of steel rod that's hollow that has the same size hole as the tool post. weld it up, drill a hole in the side and tap it for the locking handle and your done. 
Worse case scenario, send it to me and I'll build you one.


----------



## Tommie Hockett

john lucas said:


> The best way is to find a welder or machinist to simply build a new one. The bottom is extremely easy to build. Just lay 2 pieces side by side with the gap for the bolt. Make 2 short pieces to go in between and then weld them up. Shouldn't be too hard to find a piece of steel rod that's hollow that has the same size hole as the tool post. weld it up, drill a hole in the side and tap it for the locking handle and your done.
> Worse case scenario, send it to me and I'll build you one.



the people on this forum are awesome:thumbsup:


----------



## Dynikus

Thanks for all the help, guys! 
For the time being, I basically sandwiched the two broken pieces between 1/4" thick steel bars, held on with a very good amount of JB weld. I haven't been able to test how well it will work yet as I don't want to make the mistake of using dull tools again. Gonna buy a bench grinder today to sharpen them up before using it. If it doesn't work, I'll see about getting one made, or perhaps the ebay banjo.


----------



## cuerodoc

I'll be the psychic here----it won't work, and it'll break unexpectedly! (Iwouldn't use it) Make sure you have eye protection.
Dave H


----------



## khowald

Whatever you do, BE CAREFUL, I spent twenty years as a paramedic/firefighter picking u[ people that thought, "hey that's a good idea!" It wasn't! ken


----------



## john lucas

Just say "Hey Bubba watch this" then your covered no matter what happens.


----------



## Dynikus

Alright, so it didn't really work. It was fine for a few days, but today, the jb weld came undone (fortunately BEFORE I started spinning). So I'm gonna ask around to see how much it would be to get one made. You said you could make one, right John? Any idea how much it would cost?


----------



## john lucas

Well it would probably be cheap but might take a while. I'm a pretty busy fellow. This is a bad time with 2 demo's coming up, a family reunion in 2 weeks and the national symposium at the end of the month, all requiring me to make things. I might be able to fit it in somewhere during that if your willing to wait. Send me an e-mail [email protected]


----------



## Steve Neul

So, what is the diameter of the hole where the tool rest goes in? I think you need a better banjo than what was originally made. The cast metal is so thin on that one I would be afraid of breaking it just dropping it.


----------



## Dynikus

yeah, it was definitely pretty shoddy quality, and it being 20 years old (all 20 of those years likely spent outside, judging by how rusty the machine was) likely didn't help. The rest has a 3/4" diameter. I'm okay with waiting a bit, as I can't really do a whole lot without a chuck anyway, and it'll probably be a few weeks before I get my hands on one.


----------



## john lucas

When those lathes were designed most people turned spindles or maybe lamps. There wasn't much strain on the tool rest banjo. Now we turn bowls with big bowl gouges and that puts a lot of strain on the tool rest and banjo especially if you get a catch. I suspect back in those days they used mostly scrapers to do bowls.
Still I think the idea of cast metal for something like that is silly. It's so simple to weld up some steel and have a rest that will last forever that it just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## ronjboucher

*unbelieveable*

Dynikus Ive read all of the treads, 90% gave you feed back on how to fix it, and duty noted with a big butt. The other 10 % suggested replacing it, except the paramedic, get back to him in a minute. 

For me the first clue was your novice, consequently your an accident waiting to happen.

Now your asking us if it is OK too operate a piece of machinery that has the potential to hurt you or main you real bad. and adding insult to injury by using a defective or inferior piece of equipment.

No project turn out perfect, if a body part is missing or damage beyond use

Remember for the rest of your life, you'll have to compensate mentally and physically for that one moment of plain stupidity .
Ron Marietta Ga


----------



## john lucas

Ron It's not totally his fault. Most people assume that a piece of machinery is built to hold up. Only us advanced turners who have worked these pieces of equipment know their limitations. I lathe designed for spindles will often be too weal to withstand the forces imparted by a bowl blank. Add on top of that the minimum speeds are too high. It doesn't tell you in the manual not to turn large things at high speed. 
Add to that the instructions for using a bowl gouge or scraper are non existent unless you really know where to look. 
Fortunately I can make him one out of solid steel which will be far superior to the original. He can still have accidents of course which is why we all recommend finding a club or tutor to help him avoid those big problems.


----------



## master or nothing

john lucas said:


> He can still have accidents of course which is why we all recommend finding a club or tutor to help him avoid those big problems.


In an attempt to completely hijack this thread, do you all know anyone from the Clarksville, TN turning club? I'm brand new to turning and I would love to go to a few meetings if only to pick their brains.


----------



## john lucas

Clarksville has a great club. I've demoed there and know several of the members but darned if I can remember any names right now. 
Maybe you can find something here.
http://www.tuckessee.org/


----------



## john lucas

Here's you new Banjo. It will go in the mail today.


----------



## Steve Neul

Nice work on the banjo.


----------



## Dave Paine

Looks very well made and sturdy. This one should not break. :thumbsup:

Is that the original post?


----------



## john lucas

It is the original post. I turned a tenon on it and the epoxied it in place. Then I put 3 pins in from the side to hold it solidly in place.


----------



## Lilty

Very nice work on the Banjo John.


----------



## khowald

Very nice banjo John. Now he can at least not have to worry about that. ken


----------



## Dynikus

That looks pretty amazing, thanks so much! let me know what I owe you and I can paypal it to you


----------



## john lucas

I forgot to include any billing in the package. When you get it just send me a check for $25. That should cover the metal and mailing. john lucas
529 1st Ave N
Baxter, TN 38544​


----------



## Dynikus

Arrived in the mail today, it's even better than it looks in the pictures. The check's en route
I was finally able to turn some of the silver maple I picked up a few weeks back!


----------



## ohiogary

*Just Broke Mine*

I had a similar banjo rest , broke it a few months ago, had a weld shop weld it up and it worked fine , until this morning when I was trying to turn a bowl out of a piece of burl Ash, jammed up and broke the banjo, I was trying to be as careful as possible. Trying to contact John Lucas and see if he could make me one out of steel, cast just doesnt work


----------



## prestonbill

If you can find a welder that brazes have it welded with same. It will be stronger than original. Best way to weld cast.


----------



## john lucas

This is a no old post. I built him a new banjo. It was easier for me than trying to find someone who could braze it although I'm working on getting the tools to do that myself.


----------



## Dynikus

Actually, I know this is an old thread, but since you're here, I was wondering if you'd be interested in making a tool rest to fit the banjo as well? The banjo has worked flawlessly, but some time ago, my cast rest broke and I haven't found a good replacement for it, and I've been dying to get back to my shop.


----------



## john lucas

No problem. Just measure the distance from the bottom of the inside of the banjo (how far down the tool rest will go) to the center of you spindle. then measure the hole size of the banjo and let me know. I'm doing metal work right now but have too much to do so won't get around to it until next week. Send an e-mail to [email protected]


----------



## adcrandell

*Broken (again) banjo*

I just acquired an antique lathe that my father used upteen years ago. The tool holder banjo had apparently been broken and welded together at least once before. Today, while trying to clean up a blank for a bowl base, it broke again. I Looked all over online and can't seem to find anything like a replacement for it. Its old and is about 9" long with a 5/8" hole for the tool guide shaft. It looks like the one that John Lucas fabricated would (might) work as a replacement. How would one obtain such a device? Don't know the make of the lathe -- no markings at all -- but might be Delta -- if they were around when this was made. :icon_smile:


----------



## john lucas

Take it to a welder and ask if he can just weld up a base and then braze the upright onto it. I just used some square stock about 3/4" square and welded it together with a gap the size of the bolt that originally was used on the lathe to hold it to the lathe. I then cut the broken parts off the upright tool post holder and in my case turned a small tenon on it to fit a hole I drilled in the metal base. In my case I epoxied that together but a good welder could braze it and make it stronger.
I'd make one for you but I am moving and my shop is dismantled and will be out of service for several months.


----------



## adcrandell

Thanks for the quick reply, John. I think I know of a good welding shop locally that might be able to fix/replace this banjo. I'm taking a woodworking class at the local Community College and they have a great shop -- but the lathe is a new one with a much bigger headstock shaft so my turning plate won't fit. We'll see how this shakes out.
Thanks again.


----------

