# Thien separater needed on my setup?



## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)

My dad was given an old Industrial Shop Vac Dustman model 940. I've been unable to find a picture or any info online so I have no idea how old it is. 

A while back I set it up in my garage, but it didn't do so well and then I realized the motor is only 1/3 HP. My little canister shop vac was much stronger. I put it in the corner and forgot about it for the most part. 

I was looking at getting the HF DC. As I was thinking thru everything I pulled out this old shopvac to see if I could use the barrel in place of the aluminum trash can everyone uses. As I was looking over the lid, I noticed the setup is very similar to the modified HF DC's. It had two holes in the lid - one for the vacuum and one for a dust collector bag. 

If I'm thinking about this correctly, I can just remove the motor and bag. Get proper adapters and pipes/hoses and attach the HF motor to the shopvac lid. Then add a pipe to a wynn filter that I already bought. Is there a need to do anything else? Some of the designs I've seen have people cutting circular MDF and attaching it to the aluminum trash can lid. I can skip that, correct?

Any suggestions on what I should use the motor for from the shopvac? I thought about attaching it under my router table and running it to a bucket or something. Works great and it very quiet. 

Below are pics of the shopvac


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

A thien baffle will work well there and help keep the filter cleaner longer by diverting more of the material to the collection point and away from the filter.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That looks like anice unit*

That motor my be more powerful than you think, it's either 6.4 or 7.2 AMPS, I can't read it that well. Your main issue with that setup is the bag filter since it can't push much air "out" through the fabric. A better bag, 1 micron would sure help or a Wynn pleated filter would be even better. Just see how much air flow you can feel without the bag on and when it's placed over the barrel. Remember it's not about suction so much as it is volume of air flow. 
Sure there are lots of mods to the HF unit, and I've tried a few on my 1 1/2HP Jet which is similar... vortex cones, Theins etc. I don't want anything that takes up ,more floor space, so I've tried to work inside the air collector rather than add a separate separator.... :smile: I am presently using a Thein with pretty good results. 

You may find this useful:
http://workingwoods.com/hot_rodding_a_DC.htm


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## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks for the replies! 

WoodNThings - I believe you are correct. I finally had a chance to take the bag off and it was much stronger. 

So here's where I'm at. I'm going to build a Thien separator and place inside my barrel. If all goes well, most of the stuff I suck up will end up in the barrel. 

Here's where I'm confused...The motor is pushing air out and if I'm looking at the HF mods, it goes to a second separator that has a Wynn filter (Which I purchased) on top and a plastic bag on the bottom. What is this called? I'd like to find some plans for it because I will have to build this piece since I'm not using a HF DC. And does this second separator have a Thien mod within it as well? Below is how my little brain sees all the pieces fitting together. I highlighted the one piece I'm missing. Appreciate your help!


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## bcurrey (Dec 6, 2012)




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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

bcurrey said:


> View attachment 94213


IMHO, a little time spent on Phil Thiens site would be tie well spent:

http://www.jpthien.com/3k.htm

are you confusing a preseparaor with a thien baffle installed in the drum ring (the part pointed to with an arrow in the pic)? A thien baffle can be installed in either the drum ring of a single stage dust collector, like the HF unit or a delta 50-850, or within a preseparator which sits between the dust generating tool and the dust collector impeller unit. in either form, a baffle does an excellent job of sending more of the collected material to the collector bag, or the pre-separator, keeping the filter cleaner longer thereby maintaining air flow which keeps the collector performing at it's max capacity longer.

here's how i did a baffle in the drum ring of my delta 50-850 (same configuration as the HF unit. no room for a pre-separator so i put the baffle in the drum ring):

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40189

and here's a video of the collector with the baffle in the drum ring:






the pro of the drum ring baffle is that the air volume takes less of a hit without the pre-separator. the down side of the drum ring baffle is that the collected material goes through the impeller. foreign objects can do serious damage to the impeller.

good luck with your enhancement plans.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

You really don't need the ring. You could just make 2 plywood circles, clamp on on each end of the filter. One of them would have a fitting to accept the discharge hose from the blower. Clamping the 2 circles on will take some ingenuity. Maybe a couple of pieces of all-thread on opposite sides of the inlet fitting, something like that.


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