# Table saw? or jointer & planer?



## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

I am a newbie woodworker. I have a question about what would be more useful in building furniture and cabinets. I know that a quality table saw is the heart of a good shop. However, I have a quality craftsman radial arm saw which crosscuts and rips very well. I just tuned it up with new table and the recall guard kit. Would I be better served to spend my current funds on a jointer and planer set up since I can manage with the RAS? Or get a good table saw and wait on the planers? Note budget does not allow saw, jointer and planer at this time, even used equipment. Which is most likely what I will be getting anyway. Sorry so long. Any tips are appreciated!:yes:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*the simple answer*

If you're happy with the RAS and promise you won't hurt your self, then get the planer next and make a sled to joint surfaces. Edge jointing can be done with a circular saw and perfect straight edge or on the RAS if you are safe and clever, but it's best on a dedicated jointer. 
It's like:
I have a car with bad tires and a worn out engine, which should I get first.... How far do you have to drive and can you walk home?

The 4 most important tools in my opinion are: table saw, planer, jointer and bandsaw. Coming in at no. 5 router table. I didn't realize how much you can do on a good bandsaw until I got one.  bill


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## BernieL (Oct 28, 2011)

I can't say woodnthings is wrong in his opinion because wood working becomes a personal preference after a while. There are more then one way of doing things and woodnthings not talking nonsense. Like him, the radial arm saw scares me to death and I would sell it for a song to get a good table saw which is the heart of my workshop. You can get by without a planer if you buy finished dimensional lumber which is a bit more expensive then rough cut, but not that much more especially for self proclaimed "newbie". How many projects can you build in a year meaning how much lumber will you be using to offset the cost of a jointer and planer? As for edge jointing... you shouldn't have to worry about that either if you buy finished lumber. Besides, I can edge join rough lumber on my table saw by temporarily attaching a straight edge on the concave side and using the temp edge to put a straight edge on the opposite side, remove the temp edge and use the new straight edge to complete the job. 

Welcome to woodworking and have fun learning a great hobby and skill. My take is that the best way to learn is to invest in a good table saw. Jointers and planers are great tools but they require a skill level most "newbies" need to work up too. I know this because I'm a self taught wood worker who has ruined lots of good lumber to be where I'm at now. Lots of planer owners don't know that to plane rough lumber, you need to use a sled... you can't smooth plane one side without a sled and shims and then flip your board to plane the other side. First, you need to shim your board on a sled...


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Welcome Preacherman! Good advice so far. Only thing I'll add is to consider enrolling in some kind of woodworking class at a local community college or woodworking club. It's always cheaper to learn on someone else s tools and invariably safer too. After you have tried out various machines you'll be much more educated and informed when you go to purchase your own. I wish I had followed my own advice because I don't know how much of the planet I deforested learning through trial and error. :laughing:


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## Msupote (Dec 12, 2010)

I am very new to woodworking too. When I first started to have interest in woodworking I got a small table saw. I have never feel comfortable using it at all when I have to push wood again the saw blade. At that time I didn't know anything about kickback . Luckily that I didn't have any accident with the tool. 

By accident I searched something on the internet and found a tool system that runs on track. After following the discussions in the forum for quite a while, I decided to get started with the system. I am very happy about the system I have now. Since you are in the early stage of acquiring tools for woodworking, I would suggest that you explore some other available system that I feel to be safer, more economical, as well as space saving in the long term. 

Here are a few links:

www.tracksawforum.com
www.eurekazone.com

There are also lots of videos on YouTube under Eurekazone.

I have no connection with the company more than just being a customer and a member of the forum. You will have to spend quite a bit of time reading before you get their concept, I believe.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Being you are OK with ripping on the ras, and don't mind used machines, I would buy, whichever deal comes up first. Thats what I do. Even though I have all the stationary tools I need, if I see a deal on a. better machine, than the one I have, I buy it and sell the one I had. Being as I bought it used, I can usually get my cost back. Actually, usually make a profit!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would go for the tablesaw.













 







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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

You've got ripping and crosscut capability already. You don't have jointing and planing capability yet, and that's a huge benefit for someone working with dimensional lumber....I'd add new capabilities first, then work on upgrading existing tools like your RAS later.


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## PPBART (Oct 7, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> If you're happy with the RAS...The 4 most important tools in my opinion are: table saw, planer, jointer and bandsaw. Coming in at no. 5 router table...  bill


I've got a Craftsman RAS that I bought about 25 yrs ago, honestly haven't used it more than three times in the past three years, then just to cut a few dadoes. It's just sitting in the shop with stuff accumulating on the table. This thread focussed my thoughts again on a planer, and I thought maybe I'll just sell the RAS to make room. Not having a good idea of what to ask for it, I did a search on the net and came across a posting about a safety recall of Craftsman RAS's. I checked the model number of mine and yep, it's on the list(!) I was really surprised to find that Emerson still is providing the replacement guard kit, no charge; supposed to improve safety in rippng operations. 

Guess I really should get the kit and install it before selling the saw, or at least point out to any prospective buyers the recall info.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*RAS saws, I collect 'em*

I won't say how many I have, some where between too many and more that a few. The 12" ones are cool and make great 90 degree cut off saws to cut boards to length, you can mount more than one on a long table... just sayin'. The last one I got for $50.00 and could not pass it up. Having said that, I'm definitely biased toward them, but I rarely use them for ripping, making only crosscut or dados. I did make a 28 foot long rip set up using one this summer. 

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/

Ripping on a RAS is not "orders of magnitude" more dangerous if...you know exactly how to do it and you aren't using short, narrow lengths. I won't get into the "how" here, but the new Safety Recall Guard makes a huge difference. :yes: I would go ahead and get all the recall parts including a new table and then take stock of your space. Space is the real deciding factor since 
not everyone will have the space for a dedicated cross cut saw, assuming you eventually get a good table saw for ripping. Table saws and RAS with large tables will at times become work surfaces...DAMHIKT  bill


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## preacherman (Nov 29, 2011)

First off, thanks for all the great comments and help.:thumbsup:
I just found out a few months ago about the craftsman recall and order those parts totally free, shipping and all. It just took 8 days to get my stuff. For those out there that don't know about it you get a new guard, one that covers the entire blade, a new handle, a new 1 inch thick mdf table pre-drilled for mounting, and new rails to install the table, all for free. I took two days cleaning and setting up this saw to about as good as new.
The improved saftey of the new guard is one reason I am thinking I can use it in place of a table saw, at least for now.


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## PPBART (Oct 7, 2011)

preacherman said:


> ...I just found out a few months ago about the craftsman recall... For those out there that don't know about it you get a new guard, one that covers the entire blade, a new handle, a new 1 inch thick mdf table pre-drilled for mounting, and new rails to install the table, all for free...


Wow -- I ordered the kit, read the info about the new guard and didn't even realize it also includes a new table(!)


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

The main reason for getting a planer is to have the capability to work with rough cut wood. If you will not be using this type of wood I would put the planer far down on the list. I went without a planer for over 20 years. I still do not work with rough cut wood (just not available in this area) but have found some use for one I bought on sale a few years ago. 

I would upgrade to a table saw. I think you will find it much more accurate and safe to use.

George


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

One thing I enjoy about a planer, is that I recycle wood, when I can, and it comes in handy to plane to size. Plus, every now and then a deal on rough cut comes along.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

With a RAS you have a world of cutting to explore before needing a table saw.

I'd go for the joiner myself. A nice straight edge is mandatory for good glue ups of any panel, be it a table top or a simple book ended box top.

Ripping on a RAS is dangerous but if done properly and carefully its reasonably safe. A comment in another thread was made that someone liked my planner stand...










The wood used for it once was 2x8 framing lumber that was resawn on the RAS to make 3/4 stock. Anything is doable if you are extremely careful!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Doable/careful*

Quote:
The wood used for it once was 2x8 framing lumber that was resawn on the RAS to make 3/4 stock.* Anything is doable if you are extremely* *careful! * 

I would add this: You need to understand the operation and the physics involved in the machine and the process.

For instance almost without exception, rotating cutters/blades are involved with woodworking operations. When the cutters/blades enter the work forces acting on the piece either press the work into the table like on a table saw.... or tend to lift it off, like a RAS.
So the workpiece on a RAS must be held firmly by hand while doing a cross cut ..or by the blade guard nose by pressing down lightly when ripping. The newer Safety Recall guards from Emerson/Craftsman work great to accomplish this. 

Physics plays a role in everything we do. Router cutter rotation determines the feed direction. Routers rotate CCW when on a table so in most cases the work is fed from right to left insuring the cutter rotation presses the work against the fence. Feeding from left to right may cause the work to catch and get launched in that direction as well .... at about 60 MPH.

Now throw in grain direction. A planer/jointer will give better results when the cutters are not pulling the grain away from the work. Just turn the board around 180 degrees for a better/smoother cut, but be aware of how the grain runs, it may change direction within the board.

Forces within a board can be released when ripping down the length. This is where a splitter or riving knife will keep the kerf open behind the blade. When the kerf closes in a spinning blade, it may pinch and ride up and get "launched" toward the operator, called a kickback. Launch speed about 118" MPH with a 10" blade.

Some folks take the all above all for granted and already know about it, others may not. So be careful, but understand the forces action on the tool and the material! :thumbsup: bill


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Tablesaw.


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> If you're happy with the RAS and promise you won't hurt your self, then get the planer next and make a sled to joint surfaces. Edge jointing can be done with a circular saw and perfect straight edge or on the RAS if you are safe and clever, but it's best on a dedicated jointer.
> It's like:
> I have a car with bad tires and a worn out engine, which should I get first.... How far do you have to drive and can you walk home?
> 
> The 4 most important tools in my opinion are: table saw, planer, jointer and bandsaw. Coming in at no. 5 router table. I didn't realize how much you can do on a good bandsaw until I got one.  bill


That's funny, because I have been watching bandsaw and jointer prices lately.... I am definitely feeling it by not having them.


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## mrbutton (Dec 6, 2011)

ctwiggs1 said:


> That's funny, because I have been watching bandsaw and jointer prices lately.... I am definitely feeling it by not having them.


I know where you can get plans to build your own band saw and jointer.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

Table saw. #1 tool in the shop. RAS is great for construction work. I have never needed one for cabinet or furniture building. Great way to cut something you need.....off.

Table saw, good bench, jointer, planer, router.


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