# Circular vs. hand saw



## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm not sure if i'm asking for any advise, or just venting here. Sorry!

A little context; I'm new to building things. I bought a circular saw, and it turns out i'm afraid of it. I'm not sure what I think is going to happen when I use it, but i'm convinced it's going to kickback while i'm cutting my little 2x4, cut an artery in my leg, and i'll just bleed to death in my driveway in front of my kids and neighbors. 

I won't use the saw unless my husband is home to call 911 in case something goes wrong. If he's home and the kids are distracting me, I won't use the saw. If it's raining or dark, I can't use the saw because my 'workshop' is in the driveway. If it's too hot, can't go work on my project because, well, it's too damn hot. The project i'm working on is for my 3 year old. By the time the time is right for me to use the circular saw, she's going to be 17. Talk about procrastination!

So, I bought a hand saw. Seems reasonable. 

Holy crap! 

I need someone to explain to me how this thing is 'safer' then the circular saw. Yes, I understand that i'll lose less fingers with the hand saw but that thing seems more dangerous than the circular saw. Is there some magical way to use a hand saw? I could get a full upstroke, but on the down stroke the blade would get stuck. And when I tried to start the cut, the saw would just sort of chip the edges of the board. On top of that, all I managed to do with it was mangle my 2x4, and it's so off square that's it's unusable for what I need it for. 

That hand saw pissed me off so bad that i'm just ready to go out there and fire up the circular saw. Right now! Although it's hot and my husband isn't home... 

This hand saw gave me a whole new perspective on the circular saw. And I think I just want to go use it now. I'm guessing most of you use your saws without a babysitter near by? I assume the circular saw has no real malicious intent, and probably won't kill me on purpose? I'm thinking I just need someone to reassure me that the saw is safe as long as i'm sober, awake, and don't stick my fingers in the moving blade just to see if the saw really CAN saw though bone?

Thanks for reading.


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## Bill White 2 (Jun 23, 2012)

You're gonna have to quit being a "fraidy cat". Circular saws with good blades, quality handsaws (note the word QUALITY), etc. will do a good job once you've learned the ins and outs.
I would suggest that ya get out in the driveway and practice a bit.
Remember that afraid and cautious are very different attitudes.
Bill


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Yes, practice is good. There may be videos online to help. Make sure the workpiece is secured (clamped down) so you don't need to worry about it moving. Keep two hands on the circular saw (should be a knob in front for your non-dominant hand). Keep a firm hold on it and prepare for the off cut to drop. Be sure you have the right amount of blade exposed to make the cut (about an eighth to a quarter inch more than the depth of the piece). Once you have done it a few times you will get the hang of it, but practice first so you don't put pressure on yourself. You can do it. Let us know how it goes.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

You had a very good thread, that explained the circular saw completely. 
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/newbie-cutting-8-foot-board-42517/

If you feel safer and more confident with a hand saw, experiment with it on some scrap.









 







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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> You had a very good thread, that explained the circular saw completely.
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/newbie-cutting-8-foot-board-42517/
> 
> If you feel safer and more confident with a hand saw, experiment with it on some scrap.
> ...



Yes, that was the "everything you need to know about a circular saw" thread. This is the "stop being a 'fraidy cat' and just do it" thread. :laughing:

Which is exactly what I think i'm going to do.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

TCM said:


> So, I bought a hand saw. Seems reasonable.
> 
> Holy crap!
> 
> ...


What type of hand saw, there are so many on the market.

I am not able to understand your up stroke and down stroke.

"Western" style which cuts on the push stroke (away from the body). 
"Japanese" style which cuts on the pull stroke (toward the body).

Within these fundamental styles are many sub-styles. 

Some are designed for cross cut, some are designed for ripping. How many teeth? How aggressive is the tooth design?

There are also hybrids. This is my cross cut saw which is a Western style but has a Japanese style tooth which cuts on both the push and pull strokes.

If I were using this to cut e.g., 2x4 stock, I would start on the outer edge, hold the saw against my right thumb nail (I am left handed) and then slowly begin to cut to get the saw to bite. With pine or doug fir, tearout is common. These are not tight grain hardwoods.

Once the cut is started I can then place my right hand well away from the blade, normally helping to support the "drop" side of the cut.

I can stop the saw at any time, I have never had kickback. I have had the saw get stuck in the cut. This is something which can happen. I just start again.









If I want to cut small pieces, I have a cross cut saw. More teeth per inch, less tooth depth, and the back of the saw is reinforced so the blade will not flex.

This saw is limited to a maximum cut depth of 1 9/16in due to the reinforced back.

This saw is a completely different design. It does not get stuck in the cut. It gives a reasonable surface. It can create some tearout, depending on the wood species.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=64007&cat=1,42884,68511&ap=1

You are the first person I have seen who feels a hand saw may not be "safe".

Any tool can cause injury. I have cut myself on a router bit. The bit was stationary and I was just moving my hand. I did not think about the bit being in the path. Just a scratch, but my fault. It does not mean the bit is not safe.

In the old days when screws were mostly slotted, I manged to slip off the screw and plunge the screwdriver into my hand in various locations. This also did not mean screwdrivers were dangerous.

There is the possibility that wood working and you may not be intended for each other.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I bought a Irwin 15 inch Coarse cut carpenter saw. http://www.lowes.com/pd_245422-281-2011201_4294857572__?productId=1069859&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

I also bought a little miter box. I got a much better cut using that, but it still seems like a big pain in the butt. The whole expierence has given me a whole new outlook on the circular saw. So, for $25 bucks, it was probably worth it. 

As for woodworking not being for me, time will tell I suppose. Although the only thing I have ever really given up on was riding a motorcycle. Now that's one thing that absolutely was NOT for me. I don't have the same feelings about the saw as I did for the bike. So once I work through this, i'll probably be ok.


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

RE: The circular saw - I agree with the others that you need to just do it - following proper precautions of course. Make sure your stock is clamped down securely, as said above.

Maybe you would be more comfortable with a miter saw for crosscuts. That way the circular saw part is secured and as long as you keep your fingers clear and the stock is held firmly (and long enough) you might be less insecure.

Bill


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

If you are operating power equipment in fear you are putting yourself in danger. Fear can be replaced by confidence with some practice. 

Circular saws, especially the worm drive type I like to use, produce an intimidating torque twist when you first pull the trigger but then run smoothly. I would suggest holding the saw with two hands and switching it on and off a few times to learn what to expect.

The single most important safety consideration when using a circular saw is not to let the wood pinch the blade. When cutting from the top of the work piece, the self described off fall (usually on the right if you are right handed) should fall away from the blade. It doesn't have to fall to the ground but it needs to drop a little to avoid the pinch.

I would practice this by clamping a scrap board to a workbench or some other solid object and let the right end of the board hang over the bench a foot or so. On the area of the board that is hanging over the bench, make some marks about two inches apart starting at the far right and while holding the saw firmly with two hands practice cutting the board on those marks letting the cut offs fall away.

That is a fairly safe operation and should build some confidence.

Bret


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

TCM said:


> I bought a Irwin 15 inch Coarse cut carpenter saw. http://www.lowes.com/pd_245422-281-...uctId=1069859&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1
> 
> I also bought a little miter box. I got a much better cut using that, but it still seems like a big pain in the butt. The whole expierence has given me a whole new outlook on the circular saw. So, for $25 bucks, it was probably worth it.


The saw you purchased is a Western style rip saw. I have tried the Japanese style and I find them harder to use. I think I am just so used to the "push" style.

If the mitre box helped you, this infers you are perhaps not cutting in a straight line and the box helped to keep the cut closer to straight. It takes time to develop the "muscle memory" to have the arm push the saw straight. I have a friend who helps me in my shop. He also cannot cut straight. His stroke wants to curve.
He has the same problem with the table saw, even with a fence, his muscles are trying to push the piece in a curve not straight.

So give this some consideration and start slow. The saw is new, and it should cut. Concentrate on pushing straight.

Cutting by hand takes a decent amount of energy, so no surprise you find it a "pain in the butt". This is why power tools were developed.

You will not cut as fast by hand as with a circular saw, but you will have far more control, and you will burn off more calories.


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

dodgeboy77 said:


> RE: The circular saw - I agree with the others that you need to just do it - following proper precautions of course. Make sure your stock is clamped down securely, as said above.
> 
> Maybe you would be more comfortable with a miter saw for crosscuts. That way the circular saw part is secured and as long as you keep your fingers clear and the stock is held firmly (and long enough) you might be less insecure.
> 
> Bill


Hey Bill, good to see you!


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## Midlandbob (Sep 5, 2011)

What kind of place do you call home.
Power tools do have dangers and should be used after appropriate training.
Tool stores or local adult education places like colleges offer courses. 
Several schools of woodworking offer courses. 
Find a skilled woodworker with 10 fingers and ask for instruction.
It's worth it.
Good luck


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

There is nothing unusual about being afraid of the circular saw. All of us has been intimidated by the saw at first but its something that is overcome by experience. Usually its when a person starts getting comfortable with power tools they let their guard down and get hurt. At this point being a beginner fear is a real good thing. After 40 years of working around this equipment I have to work at it to be afraid. 

If you have both hands on the circular saw if something goes wrong the motor should bog down long enough for you to let go of the trigger and the saw will stop. If it does kick the saw will go backwards so don't stand directly behind the saw. 

I have been injured by a hand saw where I haven't by the circular saw. It is just because it works slow and being impatient pushed the hand saw harder than is should. The saw would pinch and bend scraping my arm. Everything has its limits and its important the hand saw be clean and sharp and time enough to work. 

Actually cutting 2x4's, if you would get a motorized miter box it would be safer to cut them. It would give you more accuracy than the circular saw without the danger of kickback. As long as you keep your paws away from the cutting area, your safe.


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## Dave66 (Apr 6, 2012)

Yes, circular saws are scary, and it's actually better that you're afraid rather than than overconfident. Your fear is probably due to you trying to think of everything you should be doing, and that's probably a little overwhelming. Break the sawing process into steps and practice each one until you understand them and can do them with reasonable ease..

Start by sitting a board on a stable platform like saw horses and clamping it down. Use a square to mark a line across your board. TAKE THE BLADE OUT OF YOUR SAW. Sit your saw on the board, get into a comfortable stance and (using the notches in the front edge of the baseplate to follow the mark) push the saw along the mark.

Repeat the steps as often as you need to to get comfortable doing them.

Now, put the blade back in the saw and make your cut. Doing all of the other things with a "dead" saw until you're comfortable should eliminate most of what you're trying to think of while actually running the saw.

I ran my daughter and SIL thru a similar process a few years ago when they wanted to help me make a small cabinet for them. We spent over an hour making dry runs on the table saw and other tools while they figured out how to stand, hold a board, shift position, etc. When we finally turned on the tools, they had most of it figured out and the project went very well.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*understand what's happening when sawing*

On a hand saw that you push downward into the work, the teeth each remove a small bit of material and send it out the far side....sawdust. A few things can happen, the saw will jamb and bend as stated above, or the saw will skip around when you first start to cut since it has not yet established a "kerf" which will keep it from jumping. So, pull it backward starting from the handle a few time to make a small groove, then start pushing it downward as you would normally. 
A Japanese "pull" saw works in reverse, because the Japanese have figured out that you can't push on a rope. But you can pull on one and it straightens right out. The pull saws are thinner, remove less wood in the kerf and for some, cut straighter. I use both.

Now for the circular saw...it's nothing to mess around with. :no: or treat lightly and you have good reason to fear it until you can gain the confidence through practice, then you still respect it, just not fear it. I got my first one when I was 13 years old ...a massive 8 1/4" Skil that weighs over 10 lbs. I still have it after 57 years of woodworking. 

If I were starting out I would practice on sheet goods or plywood that is evenly supported on a 2" thick piece of styrofoam.

Support is the key to using a Circ Saw safely when learning how.

After you understand what's going to happen when the blade enters the work and lifts it back into the base it will make sense. A table saw does the same thing when the blade enters the work ...it presses it back onto the table... then as you progress it may tend to lift it up as the rear portion of the blade enters the process. It's because the blade is rotating toward you. The first teeth press it down, the last teeth lift it up. 

Most Circ Saws have a front handle or a means to grasp it. This allows the weight of the saw to be more easily managed and gives the operator better control when cutting a straight line.
The issue is most saws require that you lean over the motor to see the line or have a small notch on the front of the base to line up on the line to be cut. Either method works. 

If you can "one hand" the saw as do most carpenters, that will come with practice and experience. A Circ Saw is really more of a carpenter's tool than a woodworkers tool, in my opinion. A woodworker will use a table saw far more often than a Circ Saw and a carpenter will use their Circ Saw hundreds of times more often than a table saw when framing a house for instance. However, a trim carpenter who finishes the interior, will now make most of their cuts on a miter saw, rather than freehand with a Circ Saw.

If you just want to rough cut some 2 x 4's for a project you might be better off/safer using a sabre saw to start out with.
:yes: bill

When using a Circ Saw make certain the blade guard is functioning properly. Do not set the saw down on an exposed spinning blade.


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## GroovyMambo (Jun 10, 2012)

IMO I suggest that you start with a power tool that is less intimidating and lighter than a circular saw. Go buy a brand new electric corded jig saw. Not cordless battery powered. The inexpensive models starting at about $30. Don't buy used or old as you want it to have all the safety features in place. Buy a good new blade- for cutting wood either fine or coarse. Get used to the feel and weight of it. If you are right handed hold it in your right hand keep your body to the left side and keep your left hand about 12 inches away to the left away from the saw holding the 2x4 firmly and practice doing some cuts until you get used to it. Once you get some use and become more confident you can move up to the circular saw.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

The problem really is my over thinking things. I think I have a good handle on how to safely use the saw, it's just all the things that could go wrong run though my mind and it slows down the process. 

Short story;

Up until about a week ago, I needed my husband out there to babysit me while I worked with the saw. His babysitting would quickly turn into him getting frustrated with me for being so intimidated and he would pretty much take over. Then I would get frustrated, and it's all down hill from there. 

So, a few days ago, I told him I was going to go use the saw, and that I didn't need his help. Half an hour later I still haven't done anything, but I did change my clothes from shorts to jeans, put on socks and shoes and tied my hair into a bun on the top of my head. I changed out of my hoodie into something tighter because I didn't want to run the risk of having anything loose hanging around. He looks at me and said "You know, if you have to get dressed up to use the saw, you're never going to get anything done". He's right. 

Then it takes me 30 minutes to set up the saw because the blade depth has to be just right. And if i'm being honest, I have to check the cord 3 times during the process to make sure it's still unpluged. By the time I get around to actually turning the saw on, i'm so mentally exhausted from making sure everything is right and safe, I get one board cut. Then I have to quit, because i'm mentally exhausted and that's a safety concern. :huh: The whole thing is just dumb.


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## Dave66 (Apr 6, 2012)

Could there be more here than the normal caution we all experience in new situations? I'm getting a sense of some confidence issues on your part. How do you feel about using things like knives, etc. Are you comfortable driving in heavy traffic or in bad weather? This may involve more than just learning to use a new tool.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

Dave66 said:


> Could there be more here than the normal caution we all experience in new situations? I'm getting a sense of some confidence issues on your part. How do you feel about using things like knives, etc. Are you comfortable driving in heavy traffic or in bad weather? This may involve more than just learning to use a new tool.


Nope, I don't have a problem doing any of those things. I even do all the yard work even though I manage to hit my ankle all the time with the weed wacker string, which hurts like hell. But I still do that without fear.


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## J Thomas (Aug 14, 2012)

With no disrepct towards your husband intended here... Take him out of the equation.. Find a good carpenter / woodworker & explain your fears and ask them to show you the proper way of using your saw. You'll find they will have more patience, answer your questions, point out the safety concerns etc... without the frustration that can grow twixt husband & wife situation... Too easy to push each others buttons.
They will "lead by example" then talk you thru as you try it.. 
We're rooting for ya here TCM.. You can do this!! But nothing beats one on one instruction..
Best of luck!!
..Jon..


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## dodgeboy77 (Mar 18, 2009)

TCM is no doubt comfortable around a sewing machine, which also has some inherent hazards. I'd always be afraid of laying a stitch across my finger tips and sewing them together. Eventually, maybe she could transfer that machine confidence and respect to woodworking tools.

Bill

PS: The best college industrial arts teacher I ever had the pleasure of being taught by had nine fingers.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

J Thomas said:


> With no disrepct towards your husband intended here... Take him out of the equation.. Find a good carpenter / woodworker & explain your fears and ask them to show you the proper way of using your saw. You'll find they will have more patience, answer your questions, point out the safety concerns etc... without the frustration that can grow twixt husband & wife situation... Too easy to push each others buttons.
> They will "lead by example" then talk you thru as you try it..
> We're rooting for ya here TCM.. You can do this!! But nothing beats one on one instruction..
> Best of luck!!
> ..Jon..


No disrespect taken, and you're exactly right. The first time I used the saw, I started getting kickback. I really think it's because i'm pushing to slow. It wasn't the kickback that scared me, it was my husbands reaction to it that kind of turned me off to the saw a little bit. 

I have put some consideration into finding one on one instruction from an outside source. However, we just bought this house a month ago tomorrow. And I just bought the saw 3 and a half weeks ago. Between the move, trying to get the house in order, birthday parties for the kids and everything that just comes day to day I just haven't had time to pursue that right now. Not to mention the beer by the cool fire pit that came with the house... :laughing:

I think i'm angry with myself more than anything for letting the fear take over. But as some of you may know, once you let the fear take over, it's a lot harder to overcome. I'll get it, i'm sure of it.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

TCM said:


> I think i'm angry with myself more than anything for letting the fear take over. But as some of you may know, once you let the fear take over, it's a lot harder to overcome. I'll get it, i'm sure of it.


Once you do it you get over it. It's like a lot of things when there is the fear and anxiety the first time around. There was this time in my high school days when...









 







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## Dave66 (Apr 6, 2012)

> I really think it's because i'm pushing to slow


 
Probably not. Kickback happens when you twist the saw in the cut. If you going too slow but still going straight, the worst you get is burn marks on the cut edges.

Your husband may be your problem. Is he a bit overprotective? As others have said, you might need a neutral third party without any emotional involvement. Tell him that you appreciate his concern then run him off while you listen to a teacher. - lol

Sounds a lot like the jokes about husbands teaching wives to drive. My MIL didn't drive until after my FIL passed away. She once told me that he was far too nervous and excitable to teach her and wouldn't let her go to a driving school. He also drove an enormous Buick that scared her to death. After he died, she took lessons, got a smaller car, and and did fine for the next 25 years - except for parallel parking which she absolutely refused to do. - lol


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't think he's over protective. I think since he doesn't have a fear of the saw and just commits to making the cut, I should just automatically do the same thing. While in theory he's probably right, in the real world, it's just not working out like that. 

I have another quick question. I think I know the answer to this one, but since my logic could be wrong, i'll ask just in case. 

Re: the hand saw I mentioned above. I can cut branches with that, correct? My husband just cut down a bunch of smaller trees and some of the trunk is too long to throw in the fire pit as is. I would like to cut them in half. They are not very big, just a little too big to try and cut in half with the pruning shears.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

TCM said:


> Re: the hand saw I mentioned above. I can cut branches with that, correct? My husband just cut down a bunch of smaller trees and some of the trunk is too long to throw in the fire pit as is. I would like to cut them in half. They are not very big, just a little too big to try and cut in half with the pruning shears.


Yes you should be able to use the saw, but if you thought it was a lot of energy for the 2x4, it will be more energy for the tree sections.

Cutting a tree would normally be done with a much more aggressive tooth design than the saw you purchased. You got the right saw for the normal wood work, where the cut quality matters.

For cutting up firewood, the cut quality does not matter.

Try and lift the sections up so you are cutting at waist height. Not always easy due to the potential size of the sections.

Also be ready to burn some calories.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah, see, but the 2x4 cuts needed to be square. The branches can be a sloppy mess for all I care, as long as they fit in the fire pit! :thumbsup:

Who needs to burn more calories? I don't need to burn more calories. Hand me another cookie...


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## Dave66 (Apr 6, 2012)

I wouldn't use that handsaw to cut trees. The teeth are too fine and will quickly plug up with the wet wood fibers. Better to use a pruning saw or chain saw (if it won't scare you to death. - lol)

Yeah, impatience can be a real problem when teaching someone to do something. I spent several years working with a friend on his cattle ranch and riding a horse became second nature to me. Day or night, good weather or bad, on a mountainside or in a valley, going at a gallop or slow walk, I didn't have to think about it. It as like my horse and I were a single being. 

Trying to teach my wife to ride, however, was a lost cause. She really had no talent for riding, and could never get "in tune" with her horse. Her last ride ended with her landing on her back when her horse made a small jump to the side. Most people would have ridden it out with ease, but she just fell off.


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## woodbutcher360 (Jul 1, 2012)

TCM said:


> I don't think he's over protective. I think since he doesn't have a fear of the saw and just commits to making the cut, I should just automatically do the same thing. While in theory he's probably right, in the real world, it's just not working out like that.
> 
> I have another quick question. I think I know the answer to this one, but since my logic could be wrong, i'll ask just in case.
> 
> Re: the hand saw I mentioned above. I can cut branches with that, correct? My husband just cut down a bunch of smaller trees and some of the trunk is too long to throw in the fire pit as is. I would like to cut them in half. They are not very big, just a little too big to try and cut in half with the pruning shears.


 NO, buy a small bow saw at your local hardware if your going to cut live/fresh limbs of a tree. Use a tool that's designed for the job.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

Update!

Turns out i'm a circular saw cutting fool! :laughing:

The problem was, and I hate to admit this here, but my hearing protection wasn't adequate. I was using those little purple things you stuff in your ears. I hate those things. I can never get them to fit right, and I think having my ears plugged messes with my sinuses, so they're uncomfortable to wear. Which means I probably don't wear them properly. Anyway, I dug out my husbands headset that he uses when he's off firing guns. What a difference! Turns out if I can't hear the saw, I'm not afraid of it. Weee! Whatever works, right? 

I even had a small issue when I was trying to cut a narrow piece from a 2x4, and I think it got caught in the blade guard. (I'm not sure what happened, i'm just guessing). I din't get upset or afraid. I just took my finger off the trigger and moved on with life. Last week I would have dropped the saw out of fear and ran away from it, convinced the saw was trying to kill me.

I do have another problem now. Accuracy. My cuts are not quite accurate. Fortunately they they are too long, so they are fixable, but they are still wrong. They are off by about an eighth of an inch or so. Any tips on how to get accurate cuts, or does that just come with expierence? Second, what is the best way to fix that? Like I said, the cuts are not off by much, but i'm sure it's just enough to make the loft bed i'm trying to build all lopsided. 

Thanks!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

TCM said:


> I do have another problem now. Accuracy. My cuts are not quite accurate. Fortunately they they are too long, so they are fixable, but they are still wrong. They are off by about an eighth of an inch or so. Any tips on how to get accurate cuts, or does that just come with expierence?


In your other thread:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/newbie-cutting-8-foot-board-42517/

You were given extensive tips on the how to. Check the link in post #25 for a guide. Cutting guides can be as simple as a board with a straight edge that gets clamped down.









 







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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

It sounds like you are cross cutting the 2x4 which would be more accurate and safe using a miter saw. A circular saw excels at ripping and breaking down sheet goods like plywood.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Really?*



Shop Dad said:


> It sounds like you are cross cutting the 2x4 which would be more accurate and safe using a miter saw. *A circular saw excels at ripping *and breaking down sheet goods like plywood.


I would venture to say that more 2 X 4" are cross cut by a circular saw than any other tool..... just watch a job site where they are building a house or an addition. I do agree that for a beginner, a chop/miter safe would be easier, more accurate and safer. When I built my house, we set up a radial arm saw with a 16 ft table and set stops for the studs, stacked them and cut them in groups of 8 or 10. For the 8" cedar siding, I used a sliding compound miter saw which had the accuracy and cutting capacity.

For this OP there are a lot of variables... protective husband, inexperience, unfamiliarity with the tool itself...etc. so in my opinion, there is no one right answer. A hand held circular saw is probably responsible for more job site saw injuries than any other tool also...so caution is the word, and I would recommend using a different tool. A saber saw or hand saw would be my low cost choice. A miter saw would be ideal and you can get a decent one for just over $120, like I did at Sears on sale. Although I already had 2 sliding miter saws, the light weight of the chop saw and portability was best for some of my projects and toting around in the truck. 
I often use a Speed square or cross cut guide when I need perfectly square cuts, although I can follow a line fairly well. The guide allows you to "set it and forget it" and you don't have to lean over and around the saw to see the line.
You can subtract the shoe to blade dimension when laying out the cut lines or just start the kerf and line up the guide afterward for a one time cut. :smile: bill


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## Mandres (Sep 6, 2011)

The number 1 piece of advise I give for circular saws is to always, _always_ secure the stock to be cut. Set up sawhorses, and clamp the piece down tight. You cannot make a safe, accurate cut if you have to split focus between operating the saw and holding the stock, but I see people trying to do it all the time.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

Mandres said:


> The number 1 piece of advise I give for circular saws is to always, _always_ secure the stock to be cut. Set up sawhorses, and clamp the piece down tight. You cannot make a safe, accurate cut if you have to split focus between operating the saw and holding the stock, but I see people trying to do it all the time.


 
+1 When I was starting out this upped my confidence with the circular saw a lot. I had cheap plastic saw horses and made them stay put with cinder blocks on the shelf they had on the bottom. Just make sure your clamps allow clearance of your saw blade and motor when setting it all up.

The ear protection is also a big improvement. I found that I could work longer with less fatigue with better ear protection, as I think the noise caused some instinctive stress response.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I would love to have a few better tools that are better suited for the job i'm doing. However, with everything that I have already bought (circ saw, kreg jig, hand saw, squares and clamps, screws and sandpaper, lumber for the current project etc...) i'm in this for a lot of money already. Once I get good at using what I have, and if I decide I would like to make a lot of other things, better saws and tools could be a possibility. It's just not going to happen right now. 

On top of cost, I have a space issue as well. My workshop is my driveway. We have a large shed that we have considered wiring for electricity, but that won't happen until next year at the earliest. So for right now, I have make do with what I have. (first on my list though are better clamps. I'm going to need them just to finish this project, I think.)

As for the straight edge, i'm using a speed square as a guide. I think i'm just having an issue getting everything lined up right. I make the line I want to cut, then I line up the square which I have to clamp down. I think in the process of clamping, the square moves just ever so slightly and my cuts are off. I recheck all my measurements before I cut. I think i'm not quite getting my blade as close to my line as possible. I still haven't quite got it down exactly how much the saw chips away when it cuts. And my cuts are _almost_ accurate, but I think I can do better. 

How do you fix a cut that's just a little too long? We're talking about an 8th of an inch or so.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

Oh, and I would like to point out that I won't be doing anything one handed. I even clamp down the speed square. My current skill level dictates that if I can't have both hands on the saw at all times, the piece of wood doesn't need to be cut.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

TCM said:


> Update!
> 
> Turns out i'm a circular saw cutting fool! :laughing:
> 
> ...


If you are using a fence or some kind of guide for your saw I have a very simple solution. As I can't flick screens without posting this first I'll be right back with the name of the thread and you might look it up. There is a picture there also.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

The thread is called

Circular saw RIP for ripping etc

was meant to read 'TIP' for ripping. 

My measurements are in metric, I probably assume more than a basic understanding but see what you think.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

TCM said:


> Oh, and I would like to point out that I won't be doing anything one handed. I even clamp down the speed square. My current skill level dictates that if I can't have both hands on the saw at all times, the piece of wood doesn't need to be cut.


Interesting thought to use a speed square as a straight edge cutting guide. I suppose there is no reason it wouldn't work, and would likely just get you better cross cuts on those 2x4s.


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## Wheeler (Sep 27, 2012)

A good little trick for being scared is to clamp a machined square piece of anything on the wood your cutting and cut next to it. Your hands don't have to be near the saw and you get a good straight cut. Same principle applies for your circular saw if you line up the blade to your line properly.  Hope that helps a little bit. 

Fearing for your safety is probably a good thing, most of us can get a little confident with tools. And that's why some of us have lost fingers haha


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I know you guys are probably getting a little tried of me and my circular saw issues, but i'm moving right along at a turtles pace.

I have a new issue, and i'm hoping that someone can take an educated guess as to what's happening, and tell me how to fix it. 

I *think* the blade guard is getting stuck while i'm making a cut. It doesn't happen all the time. What happens is, i'll get half way through a cut, and then the saw doesn't want to go any further. It's at the same place in the cut all the time -- right at about a half inch from finishing a cut on a 2x4. I haven't figured out a way to safely look under the saw to see what's going on, so i'm not sure if this is the case, it just seems logical to me. 

I had this issue once when I was trying to make a narrow cut (less then a quarter inch) and the left over piece was narrow enough to fit between the blade and the guard. I know why that happened. However, is it common to have the blade guard get stuck on a piece of wood that has a longer piece of scrap? Does what i'm saying make sense? 

And I guess the next logical question would be, when this happens, is it better to stop the saw while it still in the wood, and let the saw stop completely while still in the wood, or should I stop the saw and lift it out of the wood with the blade still turning?


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## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

Be careful you're not pushing the saw at any strange angle. Seek out some advice from someone who knows. With your inexperience you're a hazard to yourself and I say that only because I care... o.o

You don't want to join the four finger crew...


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## J Thomas (Aug 14, 2012)

TCM.. What kind of saw do you have?? Makita? Black & Decker? Skill? 
Sometimes on narrow crosscuts with a circular saw the blade guard can pinch.
SOME saws have a guard lift where you can raise the guard for your particular cutting operation.
On a Makita this would be held with your left thumb as you guide the saw.
BE VERY AWARE!!! Once the guard is lifted.. THE BLADE IS EXPOSED!
If the blade is spinning... It will chew up anything it contacts.

As I posted before... Nothing beats a one on one instruction with someone who has been in the business for some time.
There's got to be someone in your circle of friends who has some experience with wood working tools.
I strongly encourage you to seek them out.. 
An hour or 2 of show & tell + try & learn trumps the keyboard & youtubes every time.

Be safe TCM.. Believe me WE DO CARE.

..Jon..


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I have a Porter Cable 15 amp circ saw. The blade guard can be moved freely, and I can raise it if I want to. I would just like to avoid that if possible. 

One thing I noticed, the guard has a little 'play' in it. I can wiggle it back and forth when it's in the closed position. Is that normal?


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

If it's at the end of a cut, I think it might be possible that you're looking at blade pinch. I used to get that on plywood before I started learning about how pinch works. for what you're doing, I've seen someone have success by screwing scrap plywood to a workbench as a sacrificial boared. They would then place the 2x4 on the plywood, secure it and saw from there. That gives the two pieces nowhere to fall while the cut is happening, thus avoiding blade pinch.

Also - how old is that circular saw? Possibly time for a new blade?

I know money is probably tight, but there are other tools that would make cutting these 2x4s easier and safer.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/bar/3282266466.html


$50 and a lot of those problems go away.

I personally bought this as my first miter saw:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-inch-sliding-compound-miter-saw-with-laser-guide-98194.html

You can also get the 10" version for about $120.

The circular saw can be great, but some of the cuts you're trying to make may require a little technique that you shouldn't expect of yourself when you're first starting out. Be fair to yourself and let your skills grow.


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## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

Most gaurds have a little play, they just protect your hands from the blade... It doesn't matter all that much if it has a bit of play


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## Midlandbob (Sep 5, 2011)

Is ther any chance you are using a thin kerf saw blade with a 1/8 inch kerf splitter.?


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm not sure it's a pinch. The blade is able to move freely, the saw just doesn't want to move _forward_, if that makes any sense...? I'm going to get out there in a little while is take some measurements, and if the edge of the blade guard is where I think it is, then I'll know what the problem is.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

ctwiggs, I would love to have better tools for the job, but between what I have already spent and the fact that I have a space issue, new/more tools is not an option right now. Now if I can make do with what I have for the next few projects, and I decide I actually like building things, then new stuff might be possible, but right now it's just not going to happen.


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## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

If you're getting a little pinch at the end and can't figure out the technique to avoid it yet, there's no shame in finishing the last little nub of wood off with a hand saw. I certainly did more than a few times until I got better. Don't pull the circular saw out of the kerf until the blade is still, or it can kick back on you.


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## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

... Want me to make a little video on youtube about how to saw by hand and with a circular saw?... o.o I fear for your safety..


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

Gilgaron said:


> If you're getting a little pinch at the end and can't figure out the technique to avoid it yet, there's no shame in finishing the last little nub of wood off with a hand saw. I certainly did more than a few times until I got better. Don't pull the circular saw out of the kerf until the blade is still, or it can kick back on you.


Actually, I have been using the hand saw for the two times this has happened. I would have swore someone here said just give the saw a little push, but I can't find that post. :huh:


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

Develin said:


> ... Want me to make a little video on youtube about how to saw by hand and with a circular saw?... o.o I fear for your safety..


No thank you. I think I have watched just about every video on youtube already. I'm actually comfortable using the saw now, i'm just convinced that i'm doing something wrong. 

I'm not being nasty when I ask this, it is a truly honest question; why do you fear for my safety? I think I have a healthy respect for the saw, and i'm just trying work though all my issues as safely as possible. Maybe i'll just follow this guys lead. lol


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## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

Don't take it personally, I still have a healthy fear of my powertools and I think everybody should always be a little bit scared, keeps us on our toes and all our fingers on our hands.

I guess the reason I worry is because I'm just like that... I've worked with many apprentices who are very confident and are 100% they're nailed whatever they're doing and then they cut through the arteries with a stanley knife because they cut towards themselves or nailed themselves to the floor with a paslode.... And your circular saw has is probably much more dangerous than both of those..................

Y'never know... lol I'll always worry about everybody 

p.s the way that guy cuts is "technically dangerous", at least he is wearing steels though. But yeah, I quite often cut wood like this on site if I'm left without a choice - just tell anybody I encouraged it lol


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

Because he's smart - here's a good example of a common circular saw injury:






If you get any pinch, stop and adjust your approach. Don't force it.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

I have seen those videos on youtube, but i've been too afraid to watch them because they may be too graphic for me. How staged do they actually appear? (I assume they're staged because there are 4 or 5 videos of this guys hurting himself. You would think if they were real, they would have stopped letting him use the saw after the second or third accident)


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

See that? Yep, I cut all those. All by myself. With the circular saw. :laughing: I'm so pleased with myself right now it's not even funny. 

Now just to get it all put together. That might be tougher than the circular saw issues.


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## TCM (Sep 3, 2012)

Oh, and Ctwiggs, i'll see your 'pinch' and raise you one 'idiot who didn't realize that the clamp was in the way of the saw motor'. :laughing:


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## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

Way to go! Progress is good!


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## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

TCM said:


> Oh, and Ctwiggs, i'll see your 'pinch' and raise you one 'idiot who didn't realize that the clamp was in the way of the saw motor'. :laughing:


Oh yeah, watch for that too. 

Looks good. On to the next challenge!


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## Develin (Oct 1, 2012)

Kinda funny no one thought to ask if the saws path was clear of obstruction haha


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## ctwiggs1 (Mar 30, 2011)

Excellent work!

Don't worry about posting stupid mistakes - we've all made them!


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