# Highly Valuable Eastern Red Cedar



## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

It works out to around $13 BF. I wonder what he'd charge for Black Walnut?!

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/mat/2641903154.html


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Good gravy, that fellow is a little to proud of that cedar for my pocket book.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

MAN :huh::thumbdown:....I just butchered a $100 grand (accordingly here) to get payment of $600. I sold out TOOOOOOOOOO SOOOOOON :laughing::no::icon_smile:!!!
I praise the Lord for the $600 I didn't have:notworthy: and ask for the wisdom to gain more. 
MMMMM....YYEESSSS.... TT.... I'd accept that for a board of my BEST CUT EVER:thumbsup::thumbsup: and you would too,:laughing::laughing: all the way to the bank singing "Glory, Glory, Glory, He's so Great:notworthy:".

Have a Blessed and Wonderful Evening in Jesus's Love,
Tim


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

I know where there is a 30"+ diameter ERC on the ground that is there for the taking. For that kind of money, maybe I should hire a truck and trailer to go get it. :no:


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

^ WHERE? ^
Ha!


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## fromtheforty (Jan 15, 2011)

I would like to send him my condolences if that is the finest piece of wood to ever come off of his mill. I like ERC as much as the next guy, maybe even a little more (we can't get it around me). But there is certainly nothing special about that piece, including its size. Hopefully, there is not a sucker born every day.

Geoff


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

aardvark said:


> ^ WHERE? ^
> Ha!


About a mile west of the Teaselville, Texas 4-way stop on FM 344. It's on the north side of the road pushed up against the fence line. I think it fell across the road and the county pushed it out of the way.


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## aardvark (Sep 29, 2011)

Lil outa my neck-o-da woods.^
Bet someone is interested though.


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## greg4269ub (Sep 1, 2009)

Is it just me or do the photos he has posted look different than he describes in his add? Maybe I should get my glasses on cause those boards dont quite look like 3+" thick


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## diywoodworker (Jul 27, 2011)

greg4269ub said:


> Is it just me or do the photos he has posted look different than he describes in his add? Maybe I should get my glasses on cause those boards dont quite look like 3+" thick


I could believe it, personally. It looks similar to a 6" or 7" wide 4/4 board to me, so multiply that by 3 and you'd have a 18-21" of 12/4.

Just from what I see though.


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## junkhound (Nov 6, 2009)

Since this is my add on c/l I thought a response would be in order.
$13 a bd ft is not too bad (could be $20). I don't force anyone to buy my stuff, if they want it for the listed price, they are happy and so am I. If at some point in time they do not sell I will lower the price, build something from them, or cut them up and heat my home. It doesn't matter which. I see alot of used sawmills for sale in various places. One reason for this i'm sure of is that they did not make any money. I don't/won't give my stuff away, my time alone is worth something. There is more that I could say but this is enough.

JUNKHOUND


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

junkhound said:


> Since this is my add on c/l I thought a response would be in order.
> $13 a bd ft is not too bad (could be $20). I don't force anyone to buy my stuff, if they want it for the listed price, they are happy and so am I. If at some point in time they do not sell I will lower the price, build something from them, or cut them up and heat my home. It doesn't matter which. I see alot of used sawmills for sale in various places. One reason for this i'm sure of is that they did not make any money. I don't/won't give my stuff away, my time alone is worth something. There is more that I could say but this is enough.
> 
> JUNKHOUND


There is a theme amongst many millers (and non-millers) that when we see an ad for wood and the species is being advertised for *far more* than what it ever sells for, some of us like to post it. I don't know how it got started but it's been going on for years on every wood-related forum I've ever seen. 

I didn't say anything about your ad (and I didn't know it was you) that made it personal and I don't even think the post itself was out of line. At all. I don't have a problem if you were to sell it for $20 a BF or even $50 a BF, that's a free market. But surely you can't expect everyone to agree that your asking price is anywhere reasonable for plain-Jane ERC? I've seen curly & even burl ERC, both of which are quite rare, that did not sell for anything close to what you're asking. 

Your remark about *not* asking "$20 BF" didn't go un-noticed and I'm glad you brought it up. The FBE I sell for $20 BF is far superior in figure & coloring than what most others sell it for (when they can find it) on the internet for often more money than what I ask. I've seen the stuff sell for over $150 BF. I have also seen it sell for $5 BF. But I have never seen ERC sell for more than the $2 - $2.50 BF range unless it were curly or burl and then I've never seen it sell for more than $5 BF. 

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that you don't have the right to ask for and collect $13 BF for your cedar, or even $100 BF. But to compare your asking price with mine as being the same thing is not comparing apples to oranges. Yes we both have the right to ask what we want, that's not even debatable in my book. And many will not pay my asking price because it's too high for any wood at all, for some people. I have no problem with that either. But to infer that my asking price is out of line with the market whereas your is not out of line with what the market will pay, well that's just not accurate IMO. 

I brought something to the attention of others I thought was notably unrealistic, that's all. And I did it in a respectful way I thought. No snide remarks just saying wow look at this. You have the right to say the same of me, and I support your right to do so. I might also add that I give a lot of this stuff away. Not a little, a lot. I also sell it at a considerable discount to WWT members. Not blowing my own horn just saying greed is not what drives me, what the market dictates - that what drives me. I hope you can start getting $13 BF for your ERC because that would benefit ALL of us who are covered up in it. 

No hard feelings on my end. 



.


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

Junkhound,

I also made a statement/comment without any intentions of degrading you. I ,along with TT, hope your prices are fetched to upgrade our markets :thumbsup::thumbsup:. We commonly have people whom see this pricing (cannot judge your wood without seeing actual product) and think ALL ERC is worth this and we get the "valuable Black Walnut" spoof alot, when in actuality....it's "one in a million" (lose term) board that fetches this.

An old artist once told me...."the difference in the craftsman and the artist is the $$$$ZEROS$$$$" :yes::laughing: ....and what one considers a "special" cut is differ from another. Until the economy fell, this artist would do the "Big Buck" job and float/glide/loaf until the next one :shifty::shifty: while I kept doing the "ole 40" week...Whom's wrong ??? ....niether... it's an opinion on how to get from month to month. After thinking about it.....if your getting that...it gives me a new goal:yes:.

As always, I praise the Lord:notworthy: for the gifts and talents He's given me and others.

Have a Blessed day in Jesus's Love,
Tim


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## fromtheforty (Jan 15, 2011)

I just want to know if he sold it yet?

Geoff


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## ETWW (Mar 27, 2011)

ETWW said:


> I know where there is a 30"+ diameter ERC on the ground that is there for the taking. For that kind of money, maybe I should hire a truck and trailer to go get it. :no:


I went by there today and someone had taken the upper part of the log. They left the bottom 15' or so...it was hollow.


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

ETWW said:


> I went by there today and someone had taken the upper part of the log. They left the bottom 15' or so...it was hollow.


Most big cedars are. Just the nature and life of the tree. However, just because they are "punky" is no reason to not try to mill them. You could realistically get a few hundred board feet of really nice ERC from a log like the one you describe, and, potentially years of woodworking projects, like a several nice cedar chests.....

I love ERC.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

ETWW said:


> I went by there today and someone had taken the upper part of the log. They left the bottom 15' or so...it was hollow.


Even if it's a really thin wall hollow and you can't get much wood from it (but as mentioned often you can if it's a thick-wall hollow), they make beautiful glass table top pedestals. Power wash the inside and once all that rot and punk are gone, you'll see some of mother natures most beautiful handiwork. Especially if the rot weaved in and out of the heart ans sap. That's something the table sitters have a hard time not looking at. Put a sot white light inside that you can turn off and on so the reflection of the ceiling lights will disappear. 





.


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## junkhound (Nov 6, 2009)

They have'nt sold yet but trades day is still 2 wks. away.
Still to soon to lower the price just yet.
You can always come down but its hard to go up.

junkhound


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

After seriously thinking.....Your doing/attempting what I want to do.....cut custom pieces not volume and make better money. Anyone can cut production but not all can produce the beauty that lies within. 

Have a Blessed day in Jesus's awesome love,
Tim


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## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

P.S.

The VALUE of ANYTHING is ONLY what TWO people AGREE upon:thumbsup::thumbsup: the buyer and seller:blink:....no one elses opinion matters if they're happy:laughing:.


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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

Yep - it's definitely worth thinking about Pricing in general... I don't think there's anything wrong with pricing your best stuff higher than the average mill run stuff... or charging more because the pieces are more carefully cut than the average "Mill run" stuff you see full of cracks, bug holes, and pith... The 2nd piece is that there is a lot of waste and time in the process... It takes years for good lumber to dry out fully or you gotta have a kiln.... You get no money at all for that time.... so you cut it now... but don't get paid for 3-5 years.... You also get no money for the stuff that falls out - splits or cracks or twists or gets eaten by bugs and becomes useless...

For example.... With your $2/bd-ft Cedar - do you let people pick through your pile? Will you let me come pick through your piles and buy 2-boards for that price? Likely not... It's only $2/bd-ft if I come get the whole pile... Maybe 200 bd-ft worth.... Someone like me shows up... Takes up an hour of your time to buy 2-boards... The price is probably $5 or $10/bd-ft.. It's not unreasonable.... I can get exactly what I want - and you get paid a little extra for the trouble and someone cherry picking your best stuff....

Thanks


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## junkhound (Nov 6, 2009)

Tennessee Tim said:


> After seriously thinking.....Your doing/attempting what I want to do.....cut custom pieces not volume and make better money. Anyone can cut production but not all can produce the beauty that lies within.
> 
> Have a Blessed day in Jesus's awesome love,
> Tim





Tennessee Tim said:


> P.S.
> 
> The VALUE of ANYTHING is ONLY what TWO people AGREE upon:thumbsup::thumbsup: the buyer and seller:blink:....no one elses opinion matters if they're happy:laughing:.


Thanks Tim
I have sold some similar in size and price to these in the past.
The customer always say " This is exactly what my wife and I were looking for".
If all sawyers were asking more for thier work/product, over time all would see an increase on the bottom line.
Being a one man show, there is not enough of me to make a living cutting production lumber. I leave that to the larger mills and lumber companies.

junkhound


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## truckjohn (Oct 31, 2011)

Nope... ALL small time millers don't deserve to be paid more.... All that would do is to drive up the price of trash wood and poorly cut lumber....

There are plenty of folks out there who make a mess of cutting stuff up... and those guys deserve low prices... I have seen too many piles full of pith and cracked up wood... Wavy cuts from the bands running out, and just poorly cut lumber, or rotten/buggy/punky wood.... $1.00/bd-ft is highway robbery for stuff that wouldn't even make good firewood....

Around here - Millers who know what they are doing and routinely produce high quality cuts don't have much of a shortage of business or fail to get fair prices...

Thanks


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## joasis (Sep 15, 2006)

Any business model that works and is legal, as well as ethical, is great, IMO. You provide a service, and a product, and price it accordingly. 


When I was a kid, we owned a large circle mill. I was probably 8 when my grandfather bought it at an auction for $300 or $400.....lot of money in 1970 I suppose, especially when this isn't an area you expect to do much milling. 

Anyway, a farmer gave my grandfather a huge black walnut....and I mean a good 5 feet in diameter, at the base, probably 4 foot at breast height, and lots of limbs down low.....not your typical tree you get cabinet grade stuff from. The tree was killed when they burned off the field...and was black charred also. I remember well the 2 weekends cutting the tree down, with a very old Remington chainsaw, wedges, and sweat.....and then hauling the massive pieces via a propane tank trailer to the mill. Went back a few weeks later and dug up the stump also. 

Long story short, lots of milling, and more sweat, my grandfather had a pickup load of gunstock blanks, that as I remember it, he sold the load to a custom stock maker for several thousand dollars. More came from the root ball.....and he had some of the most beautiful "fiddle back" walnut for clocks you ever saw. The point being that he sold the blanks for a few hundred bucks, because of the fantastic grain and figure, and the board feet was not a factor. 

All this from a "junk" tree.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

junkhound said:


> If all sawyers were asking more for thier work/product, over time all would see an increase on the bottom line.


I'm with you on that. I think where the difference of opinion comes in is where to set the price point. Guys who are making a living full time cannot price-up to the point that they price themselves literally out of any sales. 

Being part time you're in a position to be able to sit on inventory as long as you want. No way you can make a living selling too cheap, but no way anyone can earn a living pricing well beyond what 99% of the people will pay. It's an educated consumer these days; they can be at a flea market get and online with their phone and shop around in a matter of minutes. There's no way you've sold very many common-looking boards like those in the ad at that price.

I hope you start selling them every single day at that price and that's the sincere truth. But I know you'd make more money selling more quantity at a lower price than the way your price structure is now. Not saying $2 - $3 but not $13. That's all I was saying.


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## fromthehills (Aug 21, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> I'm with you on that. I think where the difference of opinion comes in is where to set the price point. Guys who are making a living full time cannot price-up to the point that they price themselves literally out of any sales.
> 
> Being part time you're in a position to be able to sit on inventory as long as you want. No way you can make a living selling too cheap, but no way anyone can earn a living pricing well beyond what 99% of the people will pay. It's an educated consumer these days; they can be at a flea market get and online with their phone and shop around in a matter of minutes. There's no way you've sold very many common-looking boards like those in the ad at that price.
> 
> I hope you start selling them every single day at that price and that's the sincere truth. But I know you'd make more money selling more quantity at a lower price than the way your price structure is now. Not saying $2 - $3 but not $13. That's all I was saying.


Here's what happens after that: A sawyer starts making big bucks on their product, the woodworker pays that price for it, and has to raise their price for their product, the consumer then decides whether or not to support the process. But will probably just go to Ikea. I'm all for a guy making money, I just want to be one of those guys. 

In some cases where it sounds like making more money in the short term is a good idea, in the long term we'll be poorer for it. Ask a contractor who worked during the housing boom, that made a lot of money, but is strapped for work now.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

fromthehills said:


> Here's what happens after that: A sawyer starts making big bucks on their product, the woodworker pays that price for it, and has to raise their price for their product, the consumer then decides whether or not to support the process. . . . Ask a contractor who worked during the housing boom, that made a lot of money, but is strapped for work now.


That's true in those markets, but J'hound isn't selling to those markets I bet. That kind of item is going to mostly DIYers who're making stuff for themselves and for gifts to family etc. Probably a handful of artisans also who have a higher-end clientele than the mill selling grade lumber, so price isn't _quite_ as important. 

He's not selling to custom furniture makers - if so not many. Most of the people who buy stuff like that aren't making a living by making something with it then trying to resell it. But I do get your point and for those markets that have several value-added layers of manufacturing/processing your point is certainly valid. 







.


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## fromthehills (Aug 21, 2010)

TexasTimbers said:


> That's true in those markets, but J'hound isn't selling to those markets I bet. That kind of item is going to mostly DIYers who're making stuff for themselves and for gifts to family etc. Probably a handful of artisans also who have a higher-end clientele than the mill selling grade lumber, so price isn't _quite_ as important.
> 
> He's not selling to custom furniture makers - if so not many. Most of the people who buy stuff like that aren't making a living by making something with it then trying to resell it. But I do get your point and for those markets that have several value-added layers of manufacturing/processing your point is certainly valid.
> 
> .


Agreed. I wasn't speaking of Junkhound directly, more in the sense that I understand that everybody's time and skill has value, but when a supplier decides to up the price, the builder has to reflect that price in their work, and often raise the cost of labor, accordingly, which sounds good for all of us, but in the end someone has to be able and willing to pay for the final product. As you were saying, greed isn't your motivation, and not mine either, but making a wage is pretty good. For us to be competitive, not necessarily in the same ballpark as Ikea, as far as product, but let's face it many folks don't see the difference in buying an Ikea cabinet, or a Home Cheapo cabinet, and a cabinet made by a guy that has a real skill, and dedication in his craft. That's the future some of us face without the price of material going up, anyway, I guess. I'm lucky, for now, that I have clients willing to pay me, and are willing to wait a bit for my work. It's a delicate balance, though, and a lot of showing how my product is better.

Guess, I'm just yammering on about my own take on things. Not arguing, though.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

fromthehills said:


> Guess, I'm just yammering on about my own take on things. Not arguing, though.



Yammering is my specialty also. 

As to arguing I never assume that's the case, especially when someone presents their opinion in the reasonable way you always do. :thumbsup:




.


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## Joe Rebuild (Nov 22, 2011)

Man, I should be able to retire on this! Move to the islands and slab up some nice fish instead!


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Rob, are you saying that crotch isn't run-of-the-mill?



:w00t:







.


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## Joe Rebuild (Nov 22, 2011)

TexasTimbers said:


> Rob, are you saying that crotch isn't run-of-the-mill?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They grow like weeds! Actually, there a two more on the same property not as big but I got my eye on em.


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## WoodySouth (Dec 9, 2011)

I paid a dollar a foot from a local sawmill for 12" to 6" wide 4/4 about a year ago/ excellent price even for this area. Made a real nice cedar chest and a gate arbor with it. My shop sure smell nice when I mill that stuff!


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