# Mixing shellac and finish oil



## wickedsolo (Feb 17, 2017)

I’ve seen a lot of YouTube vids with guys finishing their projects with things like tung oil mixed with shellac or polyurethane. 

I haven’t done a lot of mixing finishes and I’ve primarily done things like a few coats of Danish Oil first and then a few coats of water or oil based poly. 

Is there a prescribed method that you guys use for finishing? Or, does it even matter? Can I just finish something with Tung, Danish, or Teak oil and not put any protective polyurethane coats over that?

Thanks for the advice/input. 


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## Jim Frye (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm not sure what the advantage is with mixing shellac and oil based finishes. I've not heard of it being done in all of my decades of woodworking, but then I'm pretty much old school with finishes and have my own schedule. I think the top coat material used is dependent on what type of service the finished piece is intended for. Can't wait for other's answers to this one.


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## wickedsolo (Feb 17, 2017)

Jim Frye said:


> I'm not sure what the advantage is with mixing shellac and oil based finishes. I've not heard of it being done in all of my decades of woodworking, but then I'm pretty much old school with finishes and have my own schedule. I think the top coat material used is dependent on what type of service the finished piece is intended for. Can't wait for other's answers to this one.




That’s kind of how I operate. 

My favorite top coat is shellac. I just think it it lays really nicely. 

I’m not crazy about water based poly. I have a gallon of Varathane right now that I’m just trying to get rid of. 


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

There is a lot of fine finishing products out there for every conceivable application. I don't see the need for jury-rigging a finish. You might come up with something that you think will work and it could come back to bite you. Shellac is a product thinned with alcohol where polyurethane is a product thinned with mineral spirits. Both products are incompatible with each other for many reasons. I can't picture it even working for the short term. Shellac has a natural wax in it which you can't even put polyurethane over dried shellac. It's just won't adhere. They make Sealcoat just because polyurethane is incompatible with shellac.

Really for the purist that wants nothing but the best in finishing it's taken a step further. There is a rule that you only use the same brand of solvent as the finish. Solvents are often a blend of chemicals and it is believed the chemist that develops the finish knows the right blend of solvents for that finish. The only occasion I've experienced this is using low odor solvents in oil based paints and finishes. I also had an employee once thin some lacquer with kerosene and come to me and said there is something wrong with the finish. That was a real mess. 

Different finishes have their own application. Tung oil, you can use a coat or two and have a natural looking finish like Danish oil with a little water resistance. Use enough Tung oil to where it makes a film finish it will be completely waterproof to where you could use it outdoors. In fact it is used in places to finish the hulls of boats. Danish oil is a mixture of tung oil, linseed oil and mineral spirits. It's normally just used with a coat or two and not recommended for a table top because it's not very water resistant. I finished a walnut clock in 1973 with it and the finish looks very much like it did then. Teak oil is sometimes used for wooden decks. It will give somewhat the appearance of Danish oil however it needs frequent re-treating especially if used for a deck. Despite being able to use it for a deck it's not very water resistant. If a person is going to use polyurethane they shouldn't use any of these products. Polyurethane is not known for good adhesion and some of these products especially the teak oil has natural waxes that would hinder adhesion. Then if a water based polyurethane is under consideration it is incompatible with the linseed oil contained in Danish oil. That is the catch 22 in finishing, many of these products are incompatible with each other. It's best to stick with guidelines of one product or another and not try to invent something.


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## wickedsolo (Feb 17, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> There is a lot of fine finishing products out there for every conceivable application. I don't see the need for jury-rigging a finish. You might come up with something that you think will work and it could come back to bite you. Shellac is a product thinned with alcohol where polyurethane is a product thinned with mineral spirits. Both products are incompatible with each other for many reasons. I can't picture it even working for the short term. Shellac has a natural wax in it which you can't even put polyurethane over dried shellac. It's just won't adhere. They make Sealcoat just because polyurethane is incompatible with shellac.
> 
> Really for the purist that wants nothing but the best in finishing it's taken a step further. There is a rule that you only use the same brand of solvent as the finish. Solvents are often a blend of chemicals and it is believed the chemist that develops the finish knows the right blend of solvents for that finish. The only occasion I've experienced this is using low odor solvents in oil based paints and finishes. I also had an employee once thin some lacquer with kerosene and come to me and said there is something wrong with the finish. That was a real mess.
> 
> Different finishes have their own application. Tung oil, you can use a coat or two and have a natural looking finish like Danish oil with a little water resistance. Use enough Tung oil to where it makes a film finish it will be completely waterproof to where you could use it outdoors. In fact it is used in places to finish the hulls of boats. Danish oil is a mixture of tung oil, linseed oil and mineral spirits. It's normally just used with a coat or two and not recommended for a table top because it's not very water resistant. I finished a walnut clock in 1973 with it and the finish looks very much like it did then. Teak oil is sometimes used for wooden decks. It will give somewhat the appearance of Danish oil however it needs frequent re-treating especially if used for a deck. Despite being able to use it for a deck it's not very water resistant. If a person is going to use polyurethane they shouldn't use any of these products. Polyurethane is not known for good adhesion and some of these products especially the teak oil has natural waxes that would hinder adhesion. Then if a water based polyurethane is under consideration it is incompatible with the linseed oil contained in Danish oil. That is the catch 22 in finishing, many of these products are incompatible with each other. It's best to stick with guidelines of one product or another and not try to invent something.




So, do the same principles apply with say Minwax oil based stain and a water based polyurethane? 

In that scenario, I’d probably lean towards shellac, but I’m curious on your opinion. 


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## Avickers89 (Aug 27, 2017)

I'm with Jim Frye, the use should dictate the finish, but I don't see anything wrong with mixing products in the same application to get a specific tint, as long as they will mix. A good rule of thumb is the jar test: mix them together in a mason jar, shake well and then let set sealed for 10-20 minutes. If they seperate or cause a reaction then they obviously aren't compatible, which I'm guessing would be the case with your oil and water-based combo.


I think I read in somebody's signature on this forum that finishing is three parts chemistry and one part voodoo. In this case, the voodoo may be doing multiple coats of one product at a time...probably a lower risk from the chemistry standpoint too.


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## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

wickedsolo said:


> Is there a prescribed method that you guys use for finishing? Or, does it even matter? Can I just finish something with Tung, Danish, or Teak oil and not put any protective polyurethane coats over that?
> Thanks for the advice/input.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Watco Danish Oil can be your final finish and although you can apply a clear finish on top, it is not required. When several coats of the WDO finish is applied using 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper on the final coats, you can build a low luster on your piece. Watco also makes a Watco Satin Wax which you can apply as a final coat. 

With small children in the house, furniture can take a beating. Lacquers and polyurethanes don’t hold up as well as an oiled finish (I’m ready for disagreement on this), and the oiled finish can be touched-up so much easier. The key to a beautiful oiled finished piece is the prep prior to applying the oil finish. 

When applying a clear finish over oil, I recommend lacquer or oil based poly over a water base. Oil on oil vs water on oil. Others may have a different opinion.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

wickedsolo said:


> So, do the same principles apply with say Minwax oil based stain and a water based polyurethane?
> 
> In that scenario, I’d probably lean towards shellac, but I’m curious on your opinion.
> 
> ...


Yes, any oil based stain that contains linseed oil is incompatible with waterborne finishes. You have two options. You can wait a week in good weather for the stain to dry completely or seal the stained wood with a dewaxed shellac such as Zinsser Sealcoat. The dewaxed shellac would provide a barrier coat between the linseed oil and the waterborne finish.


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