# What is your preferred benchtop table saw?



## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

There's at least a dozen that seem to be logical contenders -- Jet, Makita, Dewalt, Hitachi, Porter-Cable, Bosch, Ridgid, Ryobi, Crafstman, Delta, Skil, and a few brands I've never heard of. FWIW, I have a Delta Shopmaster. It's ok, but not that impressive. I do small-ish projects, but fairly high-end, using all kinds of hardwood. Used to run a cabinet shop years ago and have made lots of furniture. Looking to set up a small shop to teach my children and enjoy myself. I regard the TS as the centerpiece of a shop. Want the best small TS out there. I need to be able to move it out of the way to use other tools, and plan to have a stand-alone bench in the center of the room with a pop out insert for the TS, which can be replaced with a planer and other tools. 

Any opinions, thoughts, comments, cursings and other whatnot would be appreciated.

Mark


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have a Bosch 4000*

http://www.toolcritic.com/portable-table-saws.html
A Bosch 4000 and it's a great portable/jobsite saw, I wouldn't use it for fine woodworking myself. It probably would be fine, the fence is accurate, just something about an aluminum table top saw compared to a cast iron top not being a precision tool. Probably a mind thing....
Personally I'd go for a hybrid cast iron like a Craftsman 22124 which I also have and recommend highly. Next choice would be the used cast iron contractor saws from Delta or Craftsman. With a mobile base you can roll them most places, but they are not portable like the Bosch.
The newer Bosch 4100, has the improved guard and riving knife FYI, but you can get really good deals on reconditioned 4000s. JMO bill


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks, Bill. The Bosch is high on my list. About the only thing I don't like about it (which may seem odd) is that it is a bit large (29 by 22). My space is very small (16 by 10), and the projects will be small-ish. I don't think I need a big table. The smaller Jet benchtop saw looks pretty good, too, and is slightly smaller 27 by 20). However, it doesn't appear to come with a dust port. I've never rigged a DC system before, but my guess is table saws are a challenge. Since I intend to mount this saw on a small, mobile bench, I'm guessing I can make a DC setup that will attach to the bench. Another concern is, I do want to be able to use a dado blade, and I wonder if the little Jet will power (or hold) one. The Jet site says max dado for that saw is 6 inch (which is fine), so I guess it will. 

BTW, do you know what the difference is between the 4000 and the 4100 Bosch? Looks like the 4100 may just be a newer model of the same saw. Also, is the Bosch a belt or direct drive. I can't seem to tell from the online specs I've seen.

Thank you for your help.

Mark


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Bosch 4000*

This saw is direct drive, as are most if not all bench tops saws.
It comes with a dado insert. It has a great duct collector housing that surrounds the blade and exits out the back for a shop vac. In a small space you want the best DC possible. It is also soft start. Makes a fair amount of noise but not a "screamer" . Most direct drive saws use a universal motor which is noisier than an induction motor. Shop around for the best deal on these....sometimes around $300 or so. :thumbsup: bill
BTW it has a sliding fence extension to the right which allows a 24" rip and optional rear supports which makes handling longer stock a snap. I really like mine and used it to build a garage addition 2 years ago, putting it to a real test, including ripping pressure treated 2X's. It has plenty of power.
There are plenty of online reviews of both saws, but the 4100 has an improved blade guard: 
http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/bosch_4100_table_saw.htm


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## Burt (Nov 16, 2009)

I've had the Bosch 4000 for a couple years now. No problems at all and hold the calibration right on. I think it still has the largest table surface in the portable catagory too. I put a WW-II blade on it and the cuts and acuracy is much better than I had expecting.
As others stated, a highly rated portable. The gravity rise stand is great, order the table extention with it. Order the Rockler miter sled for portables and you can do some good workworking on this thing.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

The smaller Jet benchtop TS (708315BTC) is belt drive, which I find appealing. I also like the size of that saw. Small is good, for me. I will not really be dealing with sheet goods on this machine, I have another saw in the garage to use for that (I drag it out into the driveway, the garage is now dedicated to mechanics tools etc.). My biggest concern about the little Jet is the apparent lack of any dust collection or port. I still haven't figured out why that is (the one with legs, same saw, apparently has a dust port, but the table-top one does not). 

If I can't make the little Jet work, or find another small TS, I think the contenders are the Bosch and the larger portable Jet "job site" TS (707000). Interestingly, as far as I can see, the Jet has an outfeed extension and the Bosch does not. I still haven't figured out how the dust collections work on these tools. The Bosch has a dust port on the back of the saw. I can't see the port on the Jet. My ideal would be to have the dust port on the left side, as the placement of the saw will be close to a wall on the left where I can run the hose. 

FWIW, these fancy mobile bases don't help much for this application. The saw will not be moved around, except a few feet in my small shop. My plan is to build a small cabinet, with a footprint just a little larger than the saw itself, to mount the saw on (and possibly have it so the saw can be easily lifted off and something else plopped down in its place). I think I can make a nice rolling cabinet (lift on one side so wheels meet floor, then roll) that will take up less room than those folding bases. 

Any help, thoughts, criticisms, comments...anything is helpful. I'm trying to learn these machines so I make a wise purchasing decision, and since I can't see any of them it's quite difficult. 

Thanks!

Mark


Edit: One idea about making my own cabinet as a mount is maybe I can make my own dust port on the left side and control the placement that way, with the space under the saw in the cabinet basically acting as a dust collection space. Is that what people do?


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## Goldglv (Jun 24, 2009)

If you're looking for something with a smaller top, take a look at the Dewalt DW744X. I've seen very good reviews on this saw, rack & pinion fence is very accurate, fairly light saw, comes with a stand. Lowe's just dropped the price on these to $399. I have the Bosch 4100 and love it, very accurate cuts, plenty of safety features. But it sounds like something smaller like the DW744X would work for you.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

I think the Dewalt will not accept a dado blade, if I remember correctly. That is one feature I really want to have. Otherwise, yes, it's a nice little saw and about the size I was hoping for.


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## 152rider (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm looking for a similar sized saw, but am looking for one that has a 24"+ ripping option because this will be my only table saw, so I want to keep flexible. One of my concerns is regarding the accuracy of fences that do not automatically orient them themselves parallel to the blade. While playing with display models I was able to lock the fence out of square without much effort. For this reason, I am attracted to the Dewalt 744X as well. Looking at their site, it lists a max dado width of 13/16". (http://www.dewalt.com/tools/machinery-portable-table-saws-dw744x.aspx) The one thing I don't like about it is that the miter slots are not a t-track. Not that I've ever needed that feature in the past, but I used to work in a pro wood shop that had many other tools and will not be confined to my garage, and a smaller budget. Also, Lowes has taken the 744X off their website and when I was there this weekend, it was still listed at $499. I live in Chicagoland, so maybe the price reduction hasn't made it to my market yet. 

The other saw I'm looking at is the new Porter Cable PCB220TS. I like just about everything about it except the fence adjustment for the reason above. Max dado is only 1/2", but for me that's not a huge issue. I really liked that the blade angle adjustment was controled via a wheel seperate from the height adjustment instead of all in one like most of the other bench top saws.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

I think I must have been confusing the DW745 and the DW744. It looks like the 745 is the one that does not accept a dado blade. I'd like to verify that, but I can't even get the Dewalt website to come up. 

Just as well, I never liked yellow anyway.


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## moorewarner (Jun 9, 2009)

Just-a-Guy said:


> Interestingly, as far as I can see, the Jet has an outfeed extension and the Bosch does not.


I have the Bosch 4000 and am quite happy with it. As far as outfeed support, I think this is what you are looking for.

Amazon.com: Bosch TS1002 Table Saw Rear Outfeed Support Extension: Home Improvement


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## mi77915 (Jul 26, 2009)

I have the Bosch 4100, awesome portable tablesaw!!!!:thumbsup:

Tom


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## Goldglv (Jun 24, 2009)

Just-a-Guy said:


> I think I must have been confusing the DW745 and the DW744. It looks like the 745 is the one that does not accept a dado blade. I'd like to verify that, but I can't even get the Dewalt website to come up.
> 
> Just as well, I never liked yellow anyway.


 
Yes, it's the DW745 that will not accept a dado blade, the DW744X will. DW745 also doesn't have the soft start like the 744 does which is why I didn't care for the 745 either.


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## Goldglv (Jun 24, 2009)

152rider said:


> I'm looking for a similar sized saw, but am looking for one that has a 24"+ ripping option because this will be my only table saw, so I want to keep flexible. One of my concerns is regarding the accuracy of fences that do not automatically orient them themselves parallel to the blade. While playing with display models I was able to lock the fence out of square without much effort. For this reason, I am attracted to the Dewalt 744X as well. Looking at their site, it lists a max dado width of 13/16". (http://www.dewalt.com/tools/machinery-portable-table-saws-dw744x.aspx) The one thing I don't like about it is that the miter slots are not a t-track. Not that I've ever needed that feature in the past, but I used to work in a pro wood shop that had many other tools and will not be confined to my garage, and a smaller budget. Also, Lowes has taken the 744X off their website and when I was there this weekend, it was still listed at $499. I live in Chicagoland, so maybe the price reduction hasn't made it to my market yet.
> 
> The other saw I'm looking at is the new Porter Cable PCB220TS. I like just about everything about it except the fence adjustment for the reason above. Max dado is only 1/2", but for me that's not a huge issue. I really liked that the blade angle adjustment was controled via a wheel seperate from the height adjustment instead of all in one like most of the other bench top saws.


I can't get to the Lowe's site right now but do you know what price the saw is listed at on their website? Maybe you can order it online and make arrangements for FREE pickup at the store....


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

Looks like the DW744 is a fairly large jobsite saw. It's sometimes hard to find the actual saw dimensions on these various websites. I had to call Jet yesterday to get the true dimensions of theirs (which they kindly measured with a tape measure while we were on the phone...and the dimensions vary slightly from website postings). 

All of these "jobsite" saws seem like more or less clones or imitations of the Bosch. I had no idea "Porter Cable" was making stationary or benchtop tools. I've been out of it for a while, and didn't even know that PC is now apparently part of Delta. Most of the lower line Delta stuff I've seen has been pretty poor quality, so I guess that's what one should expect from PC, too?


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

I have the Bosch 4100 for portable use, and it is a great little saw. If it is too large for your space, I would go with the Makita.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

mwhafner said:


> I have the Bosch 4100 for portable use, and it is a great little saw. If it is too large for your space, I would go with the Makita.


 
Thanks. Lots of good comments about the Bosch. Table on the Bosch is about 22 by 30 (same as the Jet). 

I had looked at online info about the Makita, which showed a table 22 by 27, but reviews said it had non-standard miter slots and a really lousy fence. I now see that I was looking at the 2703, and the current model is the 2705. If I am reading it right, it has a 22 by 29 5/8, same as the others in this class, and now has standard miter slots. The only review I've found (amazon) says the fence is still crappy. But it looks like a nice saw. Takes a 13/16 dado, blade brake, riving knife, etc. Not bad. But it's not any smaller than the Bosch or Jet.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

You will probably find "crappy fence" reviews for all of this class saw. Compared to the Vega fence on my big saw, the Bosch is pretty sorry. 

The current issue of Fine Homebuilding has a review of some of the most popular models in this class. The Jet was the only one that really got a bad review. They also didn't name a clear winner.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

mwhafner said:


> You will probably find "crappy fence" reviews for all of this class saw. Compared to the Vega fence on my big saw, the Bosch is pretty sorry.
> 
> The current issue of Fine Homebuilding has a review of some of the most popular models in this class. The Jet was the only one that really got a bad review. They also didn't name a clear winner.


 
Interesting about the Jet review. I'll pick up a copy of that. I used to subscribe years ago (I used to be a builder). The specs on the Jet are similar to the Bosch and they are priced the same. 

Do you (or anyone) happen to know if the good aftermarket fence makers produce fences for these small saws? I had a Vega on my old Delta contractors saw and it made a world of difference. Do they make small ones for the mobile saws?


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## The Engineer (Mar 16, 2010)

I've been looking at all these same saws. Liked the Dewalt but not its limitations. Liked the Bosch but not its size and price, could get a real cast iron Shop Fox or Grizzly for less than $599. Then the other day was in Lowes looking for a head lite and walked by the tool department. They had a Haitachi table saw with a real cast iron table and a belt drive induction motor and 24" rip on both sides of blade for $499. Then I checked the fence. You can twist it about 5 degrees off vertical very easily. Porter cable sells a saw that looks like this saw's sister, for $599. Then as I was leaving I saw a portable jobsite type Porter Cable. Nice size, nice fence, nice table. I really liked the portable Porter Cable. It's a cast aluminum top, but the miter slot looks like a standard t-slot. And, at $299 it could fill a need in my shop until I have the funds to get a real table saw; something in the 450 lb + class.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

The Engineer said:


> I've been looking at all these same saws. Liked the Dewalt but not its limitations. Liked the Bosch but not its size and price, could get a real cast iron Shop Fox or Grizzly for less than $599. Then the other day was in Lowes looking for a head lite and walked by the tool department. They had a Haitachi table saw with a real cast iron table and a belt drive induction motor and 24" rip on both sides of blade for $499. Then I checked the fence. You can twist it about 5 degrees off vertical very easily. Porter cable sells a saw that looks like this saw's sister, for $599. Then as I was leaving I saw a portable jobsite type Porter Cable. Nice size, nice fence, nice table. I really liked the portable Porter Cable. It's a cast aluminum top, but the miter slot looks like a standard t-slot. And, at $299 it could fill a need in my shop until I have the funds to get a real table saw; something in the 450 lb + class.


 
Interesting. Unitl your post, the only Porter-Cable portable TS I have seen advertised (online only) was the 3812S PC. It looks like it might be a decent saw, but it's $649 on amazon. I have a hard time believing that saw has an induction motor (it's listed simply as a 15 amp motor). I don't see any info on dado size etc. 

The Delta/PC website doesn't list the 3812, but has a similar saw numbered PCB220TS. It, too, looks ok, and I like the small table size (25 by 19.5). It appears to be the one Lowes has for $299. So far, I see that it apparently has a maximum dado of 1/2 inch, which is not ideal for me (I do some cabinet work and like a 3/4 dado). Otherwise looks like a pretty good deal.


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## The Engineer (Mar 16, 2010)

Yes, the $299 portable saw at Lowes is the PCB 220TS and it does have the 1/2" dado capacity. 

The PC stationary saw that looks exactly like the Haitachi I saw at Lowes for $499 is PCB270TS. That saw, as described on PC's web site, has a 13/16" dado capacity and since it's motor is listed as 115/240 volt, I suspect it is an induction motor. The sales person at Lowes told me the Haitachi was an induction motor, but the info printed on the side of the box only said 15amp. 

I actually really liked the big cast iron stationary saw but the fence was about useless it was so flimsy. I will keep an eye on this one anyway because if it were to be placed on sale for about $100 less I would buy it and a Shop Fox or Besse fence to put on it.


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## sundevil32 (Apr 22, 2010)

Just bought it about 30 min ago that hitachi is actually clearanced at my lowes for 450 from 599. Didn't get it cause im begining phases of wordworking, as in getting all the tools still phase. So didn't want to spend the $ for the hitachi if decide woodworking isn't for me. It was tempting though


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

mwhafner said:


> The current issue of Fine Homebuilding has a review of some of the most popular models in this class. The Jet was the only one that really got a bad review. They also didn't name a clear winner.


 
OK, I went thru 20 minutes of online nonsense to "sign up for a free trial" with FHB, including giving them my credit card, in order to read this article. I have to say, this magazine has gone downhill if this is the kind of crap they publish these days. The main criticisms of the Jet seem to be about it's stand, and the ability of the "reviewer" (who admits he doesn't even have a shop) to move it up and down stairs. That and he doesn't like the blade guard. And the table extension (the only saw in the group that had one at all) is too short to please him. Honestly, I get the impression this guy was looking for problems with the Jet, and just had to find something. 

About the only comment I found worth noting was his view that it might take two people to adjust the riving knife...which I kind of doubt. 

The whole review was more about the reviewer's idiosyncrasies than it was about the saws. Really, pretty disappointing. And journalistically irrresponsible, imo.


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

Didn't say it was the best article, just that it compared the models you were considering.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

Oh, please don't get me wrong, I appreciate the heads up about the article. I would have wanted to read it regardless, and I didn't know about it. It's just that it struck me as so odd that FHB would publish something like that. Years ago, when I was myself a builder, I subscribed to that mag (and FWW). The Taunton publications were very good, and if anything tended to reach in the opposite direction (most of it was above the level that most of us operated on). This was more like a random commentary from a newby, with comments like "All these saws have powerful 15 amp motors!" (paraphrase). I'm glad I read the article, as I did learn one or two things (eg the Makita is the only one with a blade brake). It just was not up to what I thought their standards were.


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## bearsfan54 (May 7, 2010)

*A note about that Hitachi at Lowes*

:thumbdown:Not to burst anyone's bubble but that Hitachi at Lowe's is a really nice looking saw. I almost picked one last week, but I read the reviews on Lowe's website and the thing has dust collection issues. This can be remedied but they also said it had plastic gears for the trunion. Sure enough I went and checked it out myself. I ended up choosing the $299 Porter Cable ts220:gunsmilie:. This saw is built strong and should perform superbly unless you need a 400lb monster in your shop. Just my personal opinion.


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## Just-a-Guy (Apr 13, 2010)

Just to follow through on this thread that I started -- I bought the Bosch 4100. I was looking at it last week on amazon, and in between clicks they dropped the price $50. I figured that was some sort of sign, and put it in my cart and said bring 'er home! 

Actually, had it delivered to my office, as the shop isn't ready yet. Assembled it in a conference room. Co-workers think I'm nuts. I told them every law office should have a table saw, what the hell is wrong with you?

Anyway, thanks for all the help. I am seriously impressed with this saw. Very well engineered.


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## fgriffintx (Jun 19, 2010)

*How much table saw do you really need?*

I have relied on my trusty radial arm saw for way too many years, and now that I've retired I finally came to my senses and realized I need a table saw. I am prepared to spend some money, but I'd hate to go overboard. I like the looks of those $3,000+ babies with the 5 HP motors - not least of which is the solid, stable look. But that is more than I want to spend - yet not sure one of those $500-600 little table saws would be worth the effort. So is there something in the $1000-1500 range that is significantly better than the $600-700 ones?


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## The Engineer (Mar 16, 2010)

"So is there something in the $1000-1500 range that is significantly better than the $600-700 ones? "
Several fine saws available from Grizzly for that price range. That should get you 3hp, cast iron table and wings, good fence, and have some money for good blades.


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## fgriffintx (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks "Engineer" - ironically, I am/was one too. But of the Chemical kind, so I did not get a good grounding in Mechanical things. Will check out the "Grizzly", which I have never heard of. Mind you, I am open to buying a cheaper saw, and my main criterion would be "sawing accuracy". No problem if I have to throw away the fence and other accessories and buy good ones - but got to have good fundamentals. So I will re-read the above thread and try to determine if anyone claims to have found such a thing.


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## flolypops (Jun 30, 2010)

Bosch 4000 is the best option for it. I use it since last 3 years and there is no problem. It is nice. So I prefer it.


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## tracygg (Jun 26, 2010)

*power tool*

that sounds a good saw, If I get one , I may well give it a try


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## PurringParrot (May 22, 2010)

Just learning about saws and have found we will need a tablesaw for building parrot stand bases and cut wood with grooves and into blocks, etc for toys. The Bosch looks good but can you make angled cuts with it? or do we need a different saw?


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