# Found some planes on CL. Is this a good deal or no?



## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Found these for sale on Craigslist. $5 for all three. Says they need sharpened. I know nothing about planes at all but $5 seems cheap.

http://huntington.craigslist.org/tls/4307143938.html


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I have one like the middle one....and its my most used plane. For 5 bucks you can't go wrong....


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

They are worth $5. All three can be tuned into decent users, with the Stanley #220 (center) and the craftsmans being the better of the 2.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Well I bought those planes. I have a few questions about them. I'm going to have to post them in several posts though because of the way my iPad posts pics. It won't do more than one at once for some reason and I'm technically inept so I can't fix it. I'm not, however, inept when it comes to fixing tools, so I'd like to work these planes over and make them worth using, if possible. 

Here are the planes.....one is an old Craftsman, a Stanley 220, and the orange one has a sticker that says Stanley Handyman. I'm guessing the Stanley 220 might be the best of the three considering its condition and from the two posts above (they seemed to attribute some value to it).


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Not bad for $5. The Craftsman smooth plane looks to be in pretty good shape.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

My questions involve cleaning and sharpening. All the blades have some chipping. I figure I can remove the blades and use some light grit sandpaper like 220 grit to dress the blades and get the chips out. How do I make sure they stay straight while doing this? I don't want a slanted edge compared to the plane's foot.

Also, the Craftsman might have some problems. It seems the blade is pressed into the front of the opening in the foot. There's no room for the shavings to roll off the wood. I've tried every way I can see to adjust it so that the blade has clearance. So I took it apart and it looks like the blade is being bent slightly, causing it to be forced into the front part of the opening. The next few pics will show what I'm describing. In this pic the blade is touching the front side of the opening.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Here's the blade out of the plane, attached somewhat loosely to the metal plate it rides on in the plane. There's a large, um, set screw, holding it on, similar to a knob in size I guess. Sorry, I don't know much at all about planes but $5 was too cheap to pass on so I just bought them without looking at them much. With the blade loose, it doesn't bow.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

It looks like the frog is too far forward. Take off the lever cap, and the cutting iron/cap iron. You should see two screws holding the frog to the base casting. Loosen those two screws and slide the frog back.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

With the screw tightened down, the blade bows. This pic shows it. Is this normal or not?


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

MarkE said:


> It looks like the frog is too far forward. Take off the lever cap, and the cutting iron/cap iron. You should see two screws holding the frog to the base casting. Loosen those two screws and slide the frog back.


I tried this. Still did it. I moved the "frog" all the way back as far as it would go. There's a lever on the back that appears to adjust the pitch of the blade crossways when moved left or right. This actually hits the handle with it moved back as far as it will go, and yet the blade still hits the front of the opening.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> With the screw tightened down, the blade bows. This pic shows it. Is this normal or not?


NO! The blade should not bow when the screw is tightened. I have never seen that happen.

I wonder if the cap iron (the piece with the curve at the bottom end) is bent. It should be about straight right up to the point where the curve starts.


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## timetestedtools (Aug 23, 2012)

give us a picture of the plane with the blade removed and the frog all the way back looking down. I'm wondering if its the wrong frog. The bow in the blade isn't the issue.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Take a quick look at this web page. scroll down to the No.3 size plane. There is a diagram there that has the names of all the plane parts. It makes it easier if we are talking about the same parts.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

timetestedtools said:


> give us a picture of the plane with the blade removed and the frog all the way back looking down. I'm wondering if its the wrong frog. The bow in the blade isn't the issue.


Have you seen a cutting iron bow like that before? I never have. That just looks... bad, to me. How do you correct for that?


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Mine appears to have a part the diagram doesn't have. With it all assembled, there is a metal plate behind the blade and in front of the frog.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Mine appears to have a part the diagram doesn't have. With it all assembled, there is a metal plate behind the blade and in front of the frog.


Post a picture of that. 

Your plane is a little more modern than what I am used to. Don't know that I have ever seen a plate between the iron and the frog.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

MarkE said:


> Post a picture of that.
> 
> Your plane is a little more modern than what I am used to. Don't know that I have ever seen a plate between the iron and the frog.


+1 on the picture. There should not be a plate between the back of the blade and the frog.

Order of components is
lever cap on top
cap iron
blade
frog


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

I just looked at that diagram on supertool.com and it may not be the best one out there.

Just google 'bench plane parts diagram' and you will get a better representation of all the parts involved.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

This is the order the parts came off in. The one with the large screw was in behind the blade and the screw was holding the blade on top of it through the slot.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Ok, I googled the diagram and it appears some Shmo had it assembled wrong. The cap iron goes on top of the blade not below. When I bought it they had this backwards.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes. The cutting iron should lay on top of the frog with the cap iron(or chip breaker) on top of the cutting iron. That set screw that holds the cap iron to the cutting iron faces down and sits in the indent in the frog face just under the depth adjuster. The lever cap then fits over the cap iron with it's bottom edge pressing against the cap iron at the curved section at the bottom of the cap iron.

Does that make sense?


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Plane reassembled correctly and now I have a ton of room for shavings. The metal plate on top of the blade was previously below it when I bought it.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Beautiful!!

Just don't practice on the osb. The glue (or whatever) they use to hold that stuff together will dull your irons quicker than sand.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Apparently this has been that way for a LONG time. This is the back side of the blade. The clean part is where the cap was. This pic shows it after I reassembled it correctly. When installed in the plane, the large screw does face downward. It faced upwards before.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

So... What are your plans for sharpening the irons on these newly acquired planes?


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Apparently this has been that way for a LONG time. This is the back side of the blade. The clean part is where the cap was. This pic shows it after I reassembled it correctly. When installed in the plane, the large screw does face downward. It faced upwards before.


Boy, if I had a nickle ...


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Duane I could be wrong but what I think is happening here is the chip breaker is being fitted to the wrong side of the cutting iron,that means the chip breaker is on the under side of the iron and therefore pushing the iron forward in the plane mouth and closing it.

The chip breaker should be placed on top of the cutting iron with the bulge in the chip breaker on top and the large screw should be fitted on the under side of the cutting iron through the iron and into the chip breaker. Sorry my answer came a bit to late LOL


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Billy De said:


> Duane I could be wrong but what I think is happening here is the chip breaker is being fitted to the wrong side of the cutting iron,that means the chip breaker is on the under side of the iron and therefore pushing the iron forward in the plane mouth and closing it.
> 
> The chip breaker should be placed on top of the cutting iron with the bulge in the chip breaker on top and the large screw should be fitted on the under side of the cutting iron through the iron and into the chip breaker.


Exactly right. Good eye.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

MarkE said:


> So... What are your plans for sharpening the irons on these newly acquired planes?


I don't know. I'm a power tool guy. What I know about planes I've learned today in the last hour. Maybe light grit sand paper? What do you suggest?

That OSB is my counter in the work shop. I won't use the plane on it.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

The blade still has a very slight curve to it near the cutting edge when the cap iron is screwed down snug to it. Could this be a result of it sitting tightened down for so long while assembled wrong? Here's a shot of the cap iron with a steel ruler used as a straight edge to reference. It looks like the curved part is not in line with the rest of it.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Here's the blade. It's straight and flat when not installed.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

With the two parts put together correctly the blade is still slightly curved. Could the cap iron be overly bent, or is this normal?


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Duane sorry about that last answer came to the party a bit late.
you said in your post that the last picture is how it should be now I could be wrong but it looks to me like the writing on the cutting iron is now on the back of the iron.

That would mean one of two things the cutting bevel of the iron must be facing the wrong way or some one at some time has ground the bevel of the iron and then reground it in the opposite way, strange !!!

Just so you know what I mean the bevel on the iron should be facing down when it is fitted in the plane.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

The bevel has been ground. And not flat either. It's divoted up awful. I noticed the writing also on the back and thought this was strange. I just put the bevel as it is to the front side, which has the writing on the back now.

From what little I've learned, it's clear someone disassembled this plane and didn't know how to reassemble it right again. They also did a terrible job sharpening it. 

So the bevel goes downward? Wow. I have a lot to learn. It's been confusing since I didn't know how it was supposed to be assembled, and they obviously had the cap plate on backwards too. Now I need to go look at how I have it together to make sure it's right.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Billy De said:


> Duane sorry about that last answer came to the party a bit late.
> you said in your post that the last picture is how it should be now I could be wrong but it looks to me like the writing on the cutting iron is now on the back of the iron.
> 
> That would mean one of two things the cutting bevel of the iron must be facing the wrong way or some one at some time has ground the bevel of the iron and then reground it in the opposite way, strange !!!
> ...


Good catch Billy De.

Look at the picture you posted in #31. The cap iron should attach to the opposite side of where your straight edge is. When the cap iron is mounted to the cutting iron, the trademark stamp on top of the cutting iron should be on the same side as the cap iron. When the cap iron/cutting iron assembly is mounted to the frog, the cutting iron will be against the frog, the cap iron will be on top of the cutting iron, and the trademark stamp should be visible at the top of the cutting iron, above the top of the cap iron.

Your cutting iron may have been sharpened on the wrong side at some point. Why???? I can't even speculate.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

I don't think it has been. I think the writing is on the opposite side to the bevel. I placed the bevel up when I reassembled it all thinking it should work like my chisels do. Now I'll need to set it up right one more time, post one more pic, and let you guys tell me if all is right. Be right back!


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Allllllllll righty then.

Yes, bevel down. trademark up. All is well with the world.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Yea but just so long as the bevel is facing down when fitted in the plane it should be OK.

The chip breaker should have a slight curve in it so when you fasten them up the two peaces are pulled together.

A little bit of history the chip breaker in its life has had many names in fact I was brought up to call it a backing iron.Going back to the wooden planes they only had one iron in them and a wooden wedge to keep this in place as they developed better steel only the first couple of inches would be cast steel, cast steel is what gives the cutting edge on tools the wrest of the blade was iron that was welded onto the cast steel to give it weight that is why it was called the iron.

This was all a costly process so to keep costs down a thinner cutting iron was made but to give it weight and strength a backing iron was screwed to the back of it. Without the backing iron the cutting iron would flex in the plane when being used and the plane would skip over the wood and then dig into it and the plane rattles this is what is called chatter.

If a modern plane chatters it usually means the iron is lose in the plane so now you now why the backing iron is there have fun Billy.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Ok this is the plane reassemble, bevel turned downward, cap iron on top, and writing on the cutting iron on top. Also, two more questions, first, why do the other smaller planes have their bevels turned upwards? Second, is the plane in the background junk? I bought it a long time ago for remodel work. Seems cheap compared to the Craftsman. Doesn't even have a frog, just cutting iron connected to the body.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Way to go Duane :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

Thank you. Guess I was editing to ask more questions while you were posting. Got a couple more if you don't mind, posted with my pic above.


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## Billy De (Jul 19, 2009)

Ok the other two planes are one handed block planes most but not all block planes have a lower bedding angle of 20 degrees some really low angle block planes have a really low angle of 12 degrees block planes when described as low angle have the iron fitted with the bevel up why well mostly because they are used to plane end grain in wood.

The plane in the back ground is what is called a RB plane and what this stands for was originally Replacement blade the originals had thin blades that where never meant to be re sharpen just a new blade was fitted to the plane.

The originals planes where of an inferior quality and tended to be looked down upon by the trades whether they are inferior or not IDK I`ve never owned one. Billy.


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## MarkE (Jan 29, 2014)

Looks like you got the Craftsman set up correctly now.

As Billy stated, the block planes are bevel up planes. The irons are bedded at a lower angle and the angle ground into the cutting iron has an effect on the cutting angle of the plane. Probably something to explore down the road. Suffice to say that sharpen the block plane irons at 25 degrees and play with them a bit until you have had a chance to get some experience with them at that angle. Then you can make informed decisions about where to go form there.

I have seen the SB4 type planes but have never worked with one. What else have you got?


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## Duane Bledsoe (Oct 18, 2012)

So, the smaller ones are block planes and meant to be used on end grain? Is that just the name given to them? Why are they called a block plane? 

The Craftsman is a bench plane? What is it's primary use? I'm guessing edge and face grain.

The SB4 was the only plane I had before today. I never used it much, and in working with the Craftsman tonight, I learned I had the cutting iron in the SB4 backwards also. This happened because I took it out to sharpen a chip out of it, and then reinstalled it by thinking it worked similar to my chisels, bevel up. I looked at the iron tonight after I took it out and could tell by the marks on it that it used to be installed the other way. So I at least know now why it did not cut well like it once did, even after I sharpened it. Now I can easily see it's based on angle of the iron, and a reversed bevel makes it like a steeper angle.

I'm really showing my lack of knowledge here. But, like I said, I'm a power tool guy. With power tools I can do a lot. With hand tools for wood working I go back to beginner stages, except maybe with chisels.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Block planes derive their name from the older English name of Strike Block. Block planes are often used on end grain as more woodworkers have low angle block planes and few if any low angle bench planes. 

The 220, if i recall correctly is lower than common pitch but not a low angle plane by definition. There is a lot of hand plane technique info and videos out there - some good some terrible. 

Swartz does good, Underhill does good, Sellers does well and despite agreeing with him more often than not his sharpening ideas are odd. Bill Anderson is a scholar, and generally old references tend to be better than Cusin Eddy Youtube videos. 

Moxon is one of the oldest English references, his writing on bench planes can be found here: http://www.creoleproject.com/p/understanding-joseph-moxon.html


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