# If You Could Only Own JUST ONE Saw, What Would It Be?



## Wood4Brains

Hi there, Everyone:

first, I am new to woodworking.

Second, I am on a low budget :smile:

Suppose you have about $60 to spend on a saw. Yes, you read correctly; sixty dollars. Used on craigslist / ebay is fine. But you can't go over $60.

What TYPE of saw would you buy? Table saw? Miter Saw? Circular Saw? Other? (I have seen the table, miter and circular saws listed on craigslist for about $60).

I would like to do some miter cuts on 2 X 3s and cross cuts on 1 X 12s, and would LOVE, if at all possible, to do some rip cuts on various other pieces (like 2 X6, or sheets of plywood, or...) I need to put some shelves up and butt miter join the 2 X 3s.

Would the table saw be the most versatile? I would imagine that I could make a few wood jigs to facilitate making miter cuts in the 2 X 3s, and that it could do pretty much most of what a circular saw could do.

Thanks in advance.


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## troyd1976

beings all the cuts you mention are straight (no curves) i think id go route of a table saw. i thought for a second circular saw, but hard to get a nice rip on 2x material that route. also part of the consideration? lots and lots of people have circular saws/jig saws that could be borrowed, where as friends, family, neighbors may not have a tablesaw.


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## burkhome

When I started in woodworking, I lived in an apartment and had no space for tools. I did everything with hand tools, a circular saw, an electric drill and saw horses that I made by hand in my livingroom. I still have and use the sawhorses. While it is easier to use bench tools, much can be done with portables. I built cabinets complete with dadoes and rabbits with a skill saw and straight edges. Just takes patience and careful set up.


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## woodnthings

*You are at the low end*

I would start scouring garage sales and flea markets. Those folks will bargain and the home sellers often don't know the real value of tools, they just want them gone. Flea market sellers are more wary IF they have experience. Arrive early and watch for the ads in the paper for the weekend sales. The word "Tools" should stand out.

For $60.00 the only tool you can buy new is a circular saw, and they you are at the middle or low end in quality. Still if that's your only choice, that's the way I started. Generally circular saws or Skil saws are for "carpentry" rather than woodworking.
Cross cut guides and ripping straight edges help a lot but not as good as a table saw for precision cuts. Your edges can be planed true and smooth if need be. I just got a beautiful No. 7 hand plane at a flea market for $30.00. A little tuning, cleaning and sharpening made it an awesome tool.

You can get saw horse brackets that allow you to remove the legs for storage, OR make your own permanent ones and stack them A good pair of sawhorses is invaluable for cutting plywood. Support the plywood with at least 3 - 2x4's underneath because your straight edge will dip in the center and the saw base will slide under and get jammed or lose it's registration and you will have a curved cut. DAMHIK :thumbdown:
A solid core or even a hollow core slab/flat door (flea market or garage sale) makes a great lightweight work table when placed on some saw horses.


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## GeorgeC

I think a circular saw is the only possible answer.

A miter saw is just not versatile enough. Same for a band saw.

You could spend years looking for a used table saw that was worth while taking home. Whether or not you use Craigs list or garage sales.

However, none of that really is practicable. If you have only $60 to purchase a tool you really should not be trying to make that type of decision. It is not realistic.

Purchase the type of saw that you have the most immediate need for. That is if you can find one for that amount of money. 

Or maybe just forget about a saw and go have a good dinner with your significant other and enjoy yourself.

George


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## cabinetman

Sixty dollars won't get you much. It would be a stroke of luck to find a tablesaw, band saw, compound miter saw that is worth using for that kind of money. 

You could get a handheld circular saw, and make jigs for cross cut/miter. Or, like I started with hand tools, a good hand saw, and a miter box and back saw.









 







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## wh666

As a few others said, I'd spend all that money on hand tools. Cheap routes like flea markets/car boots/house clearances, etc etc.

If I had to have ONE handsaw only, it would be a dovetail. Bear in mind though, you need a coping saw (cheap and ok on ebay) dovetail and/or tenon saw and perhaps a large bandsaw.

If you're determined to get a power tool though, I would save a little more and get a circular saw with a laser sight. Versatile and the laser sight will help an unsure hand cut straighter.




If you're new to woodworking, think of all the other tools you need and factor that in. Set squares, gauges, it all mounts up. Look for old chisels and heavy planes like old Records or Stanleys and pick up a good diamond sharpening block.


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## Wood4Brains

Thanks everyone for the input. I really appreciate the different ideas.

I have found a table saw on craigslist for $70. It seems to be this model:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...rd=ryobi+table+saw&storeId=10051#.UBK53aCJ1iY

They put on a different blade (a dewalt) with more teeth. I am thinking of getting that one.

However, the circular saw possibility intrigues me, since it would be more portable. However, I don't know if I will ever have the skill to do anything decent with it.

As for the other tools I have now, here is a list of them:

electric (corded) drill
cheap miter box
cheap miter hand saw ($3.99 at HD!!!)
various screwdrivers
metric / inch wrench set
a couple of files (could be wood, could be metal - who knows?)
a couple of hacksaws

And that's about it.

Can you really make decent cuts if you have a good quality hand saw? And is it relatively quick and pain free?

And how hard is it to use a circular saw?

Oh, one other thing I should mention, in case this might make a difference; *I DON'T have health insurance.*

Thanks in advance.


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## knotscott

I'd buy a reasonable quality refurbed or used circular saw (ie: Makita, Milwaukee, Ridgid, Hitachi, Bosch, DW....not most Skils, HF, Cman, Ryobi, B&D, Tradesman or off name stuff), put a good blade on it, and would use a straight edge as a guide....

A saw like the one you linked will certainly cut wood, but is very light, very small, sloppy, unreliable, and likely frustrating to use. You'll outgrow it quickly....save up for a decent full size table saw....many full size contractor saws with belt drive induction motors go up for sale in the $100-$200 range. You'll still use the circular for some things even when you get a super duper TS....


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## BigJoe16

Keep in mind that the cheaper the saw, the cheaper it was made. Buying a cheap saw new can and will lead to problems but buying a used cheap saw will be even worse. I would save up some money and buy a newer better quality saw. Not only will it work better, last longer, save time/ money in the long run, it will be safer too


As far as what saw to get, I would go with a circular saw. It's versatile, fairly safe compared to a TS. It can also rip boards like a TS.


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## Wood4Brains

Thank you, knotscott;

Do circular saws come in different sizes? If so, is there one you recommend for novices who will be cutting mostly 1 X 12, 2 X 12, and 2 X 3 lumber?

Thanks again.


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## BigJoe16

There are only 1 size circular saws that i know of. The standard 7 1/4 in blade. There might be a difference in motor strength or Rome but there all around the the same size. 
For a beginner saw I would get one the feels right to you. When you go to the store pick up and get a feel for all the saws they have then make your choice. I don't know a whole lot about the differences between circular saws but as always, you get what you pay for.


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## Wood4Brains

Thanks for the tips, BigJoe;

One more complication:

I realized that I would need to make "cut outs" of different shapes - something like flat stars or sunflowers that are about 2 to 3 FEET across, which would mount flat to the wall.

I don't know what type of wood I would be using (I am guessing plywood or a couple of thin 12 inch wide boards that are affixed side by side (maybe with mend braces???)

1) Would a circular saw be BETTER than a table saw for cutting out shapes like that?

2) would I still need some other kind of saw to cut the shapes?

They won't be TOO detailed, but they would have to at least RESEMBLE a sunflower or star if you were standing a few feet away.

Thanks again.


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## BigJoe16

Niether saw will cut curves. If you need to cut curves there are a few different types of hand saws if you don't want to spend the money on a jig saw, scroll saw or band saw. The scroll saw probably would be too small. 

If the sunflowers will have straight cuts and no curves, the circular saw is he way to go. You might be able to make many small straight cuts with a Circ. saw to resemble a curve then sand the edges smooth. 
With out seeing the final shape of the flower I couldn't say weather or not a circular saw could be used.


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## Wood4Brains

Hi again, BigJoe:

Thanks so much for the input.

As for the sunflowers, I suspect you are right; make a "general" shape with a circular saw, then use some hand tools to make the curves.

Also, can you take a quick look at this particular circular saw?

Craftsman Circular Saw 10871

If I clamp a angle square (I think that is what they are called) or a jig to a board, will I be able to put the edge of the saw against the angle square to help keep the lines straight? 

It looks like it has a fence which I can use to align with a square / jig, but maybe it needs something on the OTHER side of the handle (please pardon my ignorance if this doesn't make sense).


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## GeorgeC

That looks like it is a decent saw for $60. The reviews on it are good.

George


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## Wood4Brains

So I got that craftsman circular saw that I linked to and tested it out (one cut on one board).

It seems like it will work for my needs. Plus you get a $10 rebate from sears for getting a sears credit card, so it was basically a $50 saw.

Since I am trying to minimize sanding / planing, I got a 150 tooth steel blade which seems to have produced a "pretty clean" edge on my 3/4 inch thick pine board (a 1 X 10 shelf board from home depot). I know that 150 teeth is for plywood and that since it is NOT carbonide, it might get dull soon and takes three times as long to make a cut, but it was on sale for only $3.49 and you know how I love a sale...

Fortunately people in this area are crazy about remodeling, so there are always lots of people advertising free wood on craigslist. Hopefully I will be able to pick up some nice pieces from time to time.

Note to others contemplating buying a power tool for the first time: These things are LOUD!!! Be prepared to get good quality ear protection and realize that if you have neighbors that you are only going to be able to work certain times of the day.

Again, thanks to BigJoe, GeorgeC, knottscott and cabinetman for all their help in this and other threads.


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## Fishinbo

Good choice of a saw. Remember to be safe at all times!


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## BigJoe16

That looks like a good saw. Craftsman makes a good tool. 

Be careful when using fence. Make sure that fence is straight and sits flat. 

Go to your saw and use a tape measure to check if the distance from the edge of the blade is the same on the front side and back side of the blade. To see if the blade runs parallel to the guide on the saw. You should check this often when using a fence, and every time you adjust the cutting depth. Being a lower end saw, there could be a little play with it.


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## JBSmall

Please take that $10 and find a fantastic old Disston handsaw, with a great handle, a straight blade, and no rust, at a yard sale.
You won't regret it.


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## dbhost

For the dollars listed, I would give some SERIOUS consideration to hand saws, and some education on how to cut a straight line with them. I personally like the Japanese style pull saws, others have their preferences....


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## JBSmall

I've always wondered, don't they obscure the line?


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## Wood4Brains

Thanks for the help, everyone.

I think for now I will stick with the craftsman circular saw I picked up for around $50 (with rebate for signing up for sears credit card).

I am probably going to put on the 60 tooth Freud Diablo blade. Seems to have gotten really good reviews on Amazon and places like that.

My other dilemma is that it is hard to cut joints with a circular saw - not impossible but it seems like it is more of a challenge. Lap / half lap joints seem doable, but most others will be hard.

is there an inexpensive way to make decent mortise and tenon joints? I know there are specific tenon hand saws, and maybe I can find one cheap used, but how does one carve a mortise with only a limited budget? Could I use drill spades on my electric drill and then chisel out?

thanks in advance.


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## JBSmall

Wood4Brains said:


> is there an inexpensive way to make decent mortise and tenon joints? Could I use drill spades on my electric drill and then chisel out?
> 
> thanks in advance.


No, there is not an inexpensive way to make decent mortise and tenon joints, if you consider the greater economy, counting all costs.
Yes, mortise by hand until you can afford a good plunge router. You should have a marking gauge if you want to learn to do well by hand.


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## haugerm

Using a circular saw to cut half lap or MT joints seems like a recipe for disaster. There are probably guys out there that do it all the time, but then again there are also guys who jump motorcycles over helicopters.:laughing: This is just my opinion, but I'd hate to see you lose a finger. 
--Matt


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## wh666

haugerm said:


> Using a circular saw to cut half lap or MT joints seems like a recipe for disaster. There are probably guys out there that do it all the time, but then again there are also guys who jump motorcycles over helicopters.:laughing: This is just my opinion, but I'd hate to see you lose a finger.
> --Matt


:laughing::laughing::laughing:







Wood4Brains said:


> My other dilemma is that it is hard to cut joints with a circular saw - not impossible but it seems like it is more of a challenge. Lap / half lap joints seem doable, but most others will be hard.


You shouldn't cut *any *joints with a power tool whatsoever, especially a circ saw. That isn't what they were designed for. It isn't quicker either. Even tools designed for joints, can be slower and less accurate than a practised person doing the joint by hand.







Wood4Brains said:


> is there an inexpensive way to make decent mortise and tenon joints? I know there are specific tenon hand saws, and maybe I can find one cheap used, but how does one carve a mortise with only a limited budget?* Could I use drill spades on my electric drill and then chisel out?*


Arghh I wouldn't do that at all. a drill spade will screw the whole joint up, very nasty. Hand tools are* ALWAYS* best for joints, you need them to be snug so everything fits well having strength and looks good. Doing it by hand gives you accuracy with time no power tool can ever replicate.

I really would recommend an education course, or even hire a joiner and pay him an hour to teach you joints. It will really help in learning so you avoid shortcuts and pitfalls. 

I don't mean to be condescending at all, just want to give you some tips to help you out as you seem a bit new/overwhelmed to this, as we all were once. I hope some tips help you out a little.

As well as a handsaw, you need a mortice gauge. On one side, there is a single pin, on the other, two pins and a screw at the bottom of the handle slides the two pins closer together. A gauge will set you back $5, an entry level tenon or dovetail saw, another $5. A cheap chisel set will be a few dollars, but I'd buy a nice weighty set. A good chisel will cream through wood, a crap one will knarl/shred it up. A set square, pencils, etc will be a couple of dollars. 

Let's assume below, all wood is 3cmx3cm >

*Lap joint:* Measure the width of your wood (piece B), 3cm here. Then get piece A and with a tape measure, measure a 2.9cm gap, marking lightly a score with pencil. Then using your set square, make those lines perfectly straight on the face of piece A, then using the set square, mark down the depths on both sides a continuation of that line. 

Next, take the single pin side, the marking gauge and mark out 1.5cm against a ruler. Gently rest that pin up against the depth/side of the wood, turn the wood 180* and check the pin lines up perfectly with the little prick you just left. It might take a tweak of the gauge to do this, but once you do, then the marking pin is perfectly centred on the side of the piece. Where you marked the pencil lines vertically down the side, score a deep-ish line from vertical line, to vertical line on both side.

From the face/top of piece A, cut along the lines straight with your handsaw. Nice even saw strokes using the length of the saw, nice and smooth, not too fast. You need to go down to the scored vertical mark just touching it on both sides. Once you have done this on both lines, you need to clamp your wood in the vice.

Taking a bevel edged chisel (the one with the tapered sides), rest the blade edge against the scored line and lightly tap in, chiseling away 1/4 of it, turn, then chisel 1/4 from the other side, turn and chisel 1/4, turn and chisel final 1/4 out (There is a reason for this! You need to keep turning as you chisel out, otherwise if you knocked one solid lump out, the wood on the other side would split and spoil the appearance of the piece). Keeping the chisel blade flat, buff backwards and forwards, chipping away any uneven lumps.

Now get piece B and do all of the above.

Now you have two pieces, with a square of half missing in the middle of each. Try placing them without too much force together. They should be too tight to wedge together, because the wood was cut to 2.9cm and not 3cm. A good trick, is to get another bit of scrap wood that's straight, line piece A up vertically and gently with the chisel, shave off a mm or so, gently just cleaning each side of the cut away lap, repeat on piece B. The scrap wood helps guide you, keeping the side clean and straight. Always shave/cut off too little than too much. A loose joint has little strength, but a tight one should never fail. Once you have it fitting together, stiff, but able to be wedged or gently nudged with a soft mallet in place, you can give it a dab of glue and wedge together.

The first couple of joints you do, even after trying for a while, you might not get it perfectly flush, piece B for instance might be a mm more raised than piece A, dont worry about that, so long at it's a tight joint, once it's dry, you can plane that down and get it as smooth as a baby's bottom.

All of that may seem long winded, but it isn't really as long as it seems. Doesn't help that I can't find decent pics for you. I can always add some if it will help? Let me know. After you practise a while, you will be able to knock a joint up quicker by hand, than it would take to unpack and plug a power tool in. Most of the time is spent measuring and checking before cutting which you have to do whatever tool you use.


*Mortice and tenon: * Again, the wood is 3cmx3cm. Mark out on your ruler on the mortice side of the gauge (two pin side) a gap of 1cm. Then from the plate of the gauge to the first pin, measure another 1cm. As before, gently prick the wood, turn 180* and check the pricks match up perfectly.

Mark out on piece A, 3cm and draw vertical lines across with your set square and pencil. Going horizontal, score the gauge along. This area is the area you will chisel out. Clamp the wood on a flat bench tight (if you don't, then as you chisel through, the wood will split and spoil the finish). You need a mortice chisel, which unlike the bevel edge, has a flat edge so it is perfectly square, so you want a 10mm wide chisel here. Angling 45*, start from near the centre, chipping down a couple of mm or so, gently tapping away, turn then approach from the other side. Keep turning and going, slowly making your way across the 3cmx1cm gap in the middle. When you have got the middle chipped out and you're at the edge, you can angle the blade 90* and go down the edges (reason why you don't do this straight away is because you would make the edge too wide and ill fitting). You can either go all the way through the wood of halfway down, it all depends if you want the joint visible from the other side.

With piece B, if you decided to go all the way through, mark 3cm from the end with your pencil and set square. If you want the tenon hidden, then measure 1.5cm along. Go around all four sides of the wood with the marked line.

Then from the front side, mark up from the line, over the top of the end and then up from the back line to the end. Place in your vice and cut of the outer third from either side of the wood, you will be left with 1/3 of the wood in the centre. As with the previous joint, cut away too little, then you can clean both parts up and get them fitting tight.


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## Huxleywood

wh666 said:


> Arghh I wouldn't do that at all. a drill spade will screw the whole joint up, very nasty. Hand tools are* ALWAYS* best for joints, you need them to be snug so everything fits well having strength and looks good. Doing it by hand gives you accuracy with time no power tool can ever replicate.
> 
> .


While I agree that hand tools are very useful and I use them for much of my joinery saying they always (even in the hnads of a master) give the best joint is laughable. As to your statement about accuracy and time no power tool can ever replicate I challange you to a case full of drawers, lets say 4 full 2 half drawers, you start with hand tools and I start with a router and a jig, we can see who finishes first and who's end up with perfect interference fit on every tail and pin on all 6 drawers. The just for the real throw down you start with hand tools and I start with a Kufo dovetail machine, I'll be finished and six pints in before you get warmed up. Point being never and always are dangerous words and just incorrect here. What machines can't replicate in most cases is the imperfections of the human hand which in fine furniture is to be celebrated.


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## Wood4Brains

Thank you, wh666, for the informative post. I really appreciate your tips on the making of the various joints.

I appreciate your concerns about safety. That is my number one concern, too. And because of that, it sometimes takes me as long to make a cut with a circular saw as it would with a good handsaw, since I am EXTREMELY careful to make sure everything is supported properly and clamped in place.

I understand and appreciate the difficulty in doing joint cuts with a circ saw, and will look into getting specific hand tools for making joint cuts. Thank you again.


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## BassBlaster

I didnt read every reply so maybe you have allready had your question answered but can it be a saw that you could spend a little bit of money on from time to time, down the road?

I ask because I just picked up and old Emerson made Craftsman contracter saw for 50 bucks on CL and they sell in that price range quite frequently. The saw is in perfect running order and just needs cleaned up a bit. I'll add cast wings and an upgraded fence and it will be a nice machine. You could add the upgrades as funds allowed.


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## MagGeorge

You can find the best possible deals at garage sales and flea markets. Some days you are lucky, some days, you aren't.


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## Wood4Brains

@ BassBlaster:

Thanks for the input about the table saw.

where I live, the only table saws that are within my budget are USED Ryobi saws - the ones that lots of reviewers said are *VERY DANGEROUS* (due to faulty blade guards, instability, etc.), hard to adjust / maintain settings, and are NOT precise.

For instance, there is this one for sale for $80:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/tls/3169789492.html

And the reviews of it are here:

http://www.amazon.com/Ryobi-BTS10S-inch-Portable-Table/product-reviews/B001OOJLCY


There MIGHT be a few good bargains around on a table saw, but I wouldn't know how to tell a good, old used saw from a dog, and I would probably spend a significant amount of time trying to fix it up / find parts to get it working / make it safer.

@ MagGeorge



> You can find the best possible deals at garage sales and flea markets. Some days you are lucky, some days, you aren't.


Thank you, MagGeorge for the note.

I have been looking around lately. It's tough because there are LOTS of people here looking for a bargain on saws (in the San Francisco Bay area), so you have to be the FIRST person at a garage sale to pick up something good.

When I get to the sales and ask about various tools, the people there tell me, "I just sold one of those fifteen minutes ago to some yuppies who are remodeling their house..."

I wish I could be more patient, but since I will be using this for retail store shelving at a clothing store, I need to get going on things. Wife is ALREADY annoyed at my lack of progress (we are already two months behind and we just STARTED a month ago!)


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