# Popping the grain on soft maple WITHOUT staining...



## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi all!

Here's my second post on the forum. Thanks for all of the help last time! My new project is a live edge, soft maple table. I have made a cutting board sized, trial run at finishing with only polyurethane. I really like the tone it gives the wood, after about 4 coats. I had sanded the wood with 220, applied the poly, and wet sanded between each coat. I just feel like there might be a way to get more "umpf" out of the wood. I dont know much about popping grains, anyways. The maple has a lot of character, and I want to do the wood justice, if y'all know what I mean. Thanks for aaaany suggestions !

I attached a pic of my 4th go at a butterfly joint. Thanks again!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Try a 50/50 mix of BLO (boiled linseed oil) and mineral spirits. Wipe on, let sit for a few minutes, and wipe off. Then when cured, finish with the polyurethane.









 







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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

How long would that take to cure? Would I need to sand before the poly?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

wbhudson said:


> How long would that take to cure? Would I need to sand before the poly?


Depending on your location (temperature and humidity), and the stock, could be a few days. If the surface is a bit nubby, use 320x for a light sanding. I would just apply the finish without sanding...the same as if the bare wood was stained.









 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Another option would be to add a small amount of oil stain to linseed oil to give it enough color to bring out the grain. I'm wondering what kind of poly you are using. Oil based poly will bring out the grain as well as the linseed oil however it's not a good finish for light woods. Over time oil based poly will yellow altering the appearance of the wood. There are many different finishes that would remain clear and water based poly is one of them.


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## Cliff (Feb 5, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> Try a 50/50 mix of BLO (boiled linseed oil) and mineral spirits. Wipe on, let sit for a few minutes, and wipe off. Then when cured, finish with the polyurethane.
> .


What he said, but try shellac as a wash coat and then use one of the nicer water based finished like Enduro Pre-Cat 181.

The result will be much brighter and the finish will have a clarity and beauty that I find is superior to any alkyd urethane I've used (not that I've used them all). 

I like Pre Cat 181 for brushing even though it's made for spraying because *it goes on like a dream leaves no brush marks and dries absolutely dust proof in mere moments. * The finish is hard durable and tough as nails. You can finish the insides of boxes as well as the drawers all over and the finish will not stick to itself after setting for a period. It is water clean up too.


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## Bill White 2 (Jun 23, 2012)

I wipe down with a damp cloth, let it dry, re sand, then apply a wash coat of dewaxed shellac (Zinnser Seal Coat). Then apply the finish of choice.
Bill


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you all for the help. I was just confused when reading about I online. Everything says to stain first. I don't suppose I would need wood conditioner without staining right?


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

Steve Neul said:


> Another option would be to add a small amount of oil stain to linseed oil to give it enough color to bring out the grain. I'm wondering what kind of poly you are using. Oil based poly will bring out the grain as well as the linseed oil however it's not a good finish for light woods. Over time oil based poly will yellow altering the appearance of the wood. There are many different finishes that would remain clear and water based poly is one of them.


I'm using an oil based stain. With the inlay that I'm doing (see sample) I want a good amount of contrast between that and the maple. I do want a light amber tint to the maple though. So far I've been testing out oil based poly (can't remember the brand), and have gotten a decent color with four coats. Thought about a light stain then sanding most of that off before sealing. Don't know I that's too much trouble for a 80x44" table. I want to avoid blotching


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

wbhudson said:


> I'm using an oil based stain. With the inlay that I'm doing (see sample) I want a good amount of contrast between that and the maple. I do want a light amber tint to the maple though. So far I've been testing out oil based poly (can't remember the brand), and have gotten a decent color with four coats. Thought about a light stain then sanding most of that off before sealing. Don't know I that's too much trouble for a 80x44" table. I want to avoid blotching


There isn't much risk having the wood blotch with a light stain. It's when you use darker colors you have to be careful. The wood has soft parts of the grain and harder parts of the grain. If you would add a little color, the soft parts of the wood would darken a little giving you the contrast you want. Unless you use a natural stain the stain alone might be more color than you want so diluting it with linseed oil might work for you. In the old days maple was stained with a stain with a reddish tint to it. You just need to tinker with samples until you achieve the look you want. If you would post of picture of something else with the color you want perhaps one of us could give you an idea of the products you need.


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks For everyone's help! I'm going to go at the table top with the linseed oil. I'll post some pics along the way. Much appreciated advice


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## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

Best product I've used to accentuate grains is epoxy , and the second is clear lacquer. Both have a tendency to stand out the coloring differences found in grains. Pops em if you will.

I've played with the oil based products , even danish oils and similar mixes, they just don't pop out the grains like lacquer or epoxy.(epoxy takes some practice)
One thing is anything with solids like a semi-gloss will hide grains a tad. So use hi gloss all the way until the last coat where you can adjust the sheen.
If using epoxy DON'T coat it with a oil based product. I use a water based poly as a top coat. Yes, w/b poly, holds off the yellowing effect better than most products but it can still minorly yellow, but not as noticeable.


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## Bill White 2 (Jun 23, 2012)

Just be sure that ya use BOILED linseed oil.:yes:
Bill


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Soft Maple is not really a wood that I would say has a great grain and is "pop-able" Hell, I could be wrong, but I've really never seen any depth to the wood. Same with Hard Maple, not really a wood I would try to pop.

Hope it works, prove me wrong. :smile:


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Grain depends on the piece- BLO did alright on this piece of maple..... There is no finish on it yet.


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## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

^
It has character but the graining is light and non-distinct. Nonetheless I like it. 
The oak(ish) piece behind it has distinct grain.

Now sample one with straight lacquer thinner, and see the difference. The thinner will dry fast, so no wood will be wasted in the testing.
I'll guarantee a difference.

I agree the graining depends on where the cut is taken from. It depends on basic defects and merging of grain patterns and coloring.
I have some live edged cuts where the bugs attacked the wood and it has dark areas like walnut combined with the light grains of typical maple. Generally maple is kind of boring when grains are straight. A good wood for cabinets and the likes, but I only like it when it has distress.
Generally I see maple as easy to work, and with basic grains that don't stand out and overpower a piece. It has it's place.


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

mike1950 said:


> Grain depends on the piece- BLO did alright on this piece of maple..... There is no finish on it yet.


That's a great piece there mike.


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

I have a new problem that I could use some help with. When I made the table top it was perfectly level. The weather was a bit cooler however and I've been building the table in my garage. It's still unfinished. Would the wood even out once I bring it into the house where the temperature will be more constant?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

wbhudson said:


> I have a new problem that I could use some help with. When I made the table top it was perfectly level. The weather was a bit cooler however and I've been building the table in my garage. It's still unfinished. Would the wood even out once I bring it into the house where the temperature will be more constant?


 You might put the table in the house for a couple of weeks and see if that helps it. More than likely if there is a problem with the table initially it will stay that way. It may be necessary to screw some boards flat to the underside to even out the pressure. Just elongate the holes so there is room for it to contract. You might also wet the cup side of the top. This will cause that side of the top to expand and flatten.

Wood isn't really affected by temperature. It's the humidity messing with the moisture content of the wood.


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

The edges are all glued together. Should I wait to put poly on the table top or maybe seal the side that's not cupped so the other side will absorb some moisture? I don't really know how to take out this bowing. Really disheartening to see it go from perfectly flat to curved.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

wbhudson said:


> The edges are all glued together. Should I wait to put poly on the table top or maybe seal the side that's not cupped so the other side will absorb some moisture? I don't really know how to take out this bowing. Really disheartening to see it go from perfectly flat to curved.


 It's real common for a wooden panel the size of a table top to warp. This is the main reason furniture makers put a skirt on a table top. I would work on the top and make it flat and put something on it to hold it flat after you get there. I've taken the skirt off of a antique table before that was flat only to have it severely curl up. 

If it were me I would wait and do all the finish at the same time. If you plan to use water based poly, doing one side you may have a real adverse reaction. Putting water (in the finish) on the crown side may make it swell up and warp more. It's best to coat both sides regardless of what type finish you use.


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## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

This will likely not help you now, but one of the thing I do with my live edge table tops is get a frame on the backside nearly immediately after the wood comes out of the kiln. Thick pieces, I use 1 to 1.5" tube steel welded in a square/rectangle with center ribs if needed. I lag bolt the frame to the underside.
You might try weighting down the board with massive weights and seeing if you can in time force the piece back flat, and be prepared to get a frame work under it as soon as the warp is removed/lesssened. Once the weight is removed get after it the same afternoon. Don't wait. No telling what the results will be from my end. The framework might draw a tad of the warp out due to lag bolting it and drawing tension to it, but if the warp is massive, it won't pull it in shape by much.
You gotta work this by force, weight and some time.


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## mike1950 (Aug 29, 2010)

Might have already been asked- but was it completely dry? I agree that if it has moved much it will be very hard getting it flat without planning it down again.


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

mike1950 said:


> Might have already been asked- but was it completely dry? I agree that if it has moved much it will be very hard getting it flat without planning it down again.


So it was kiln dried before I started working with it. I plan on using oil based poly so that I get an amber tint to the wood. I was planning on working with the back side first. I have finished the table base and was going to attach the table top with figure 8 clips. The humidity will be higher in the house, once I bring it inside. It's cupped on the front side of the table. Should I add moisture to the back side along with weights? Thanks again everyone


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

I tried to get the best picture I could here. The table is 44" wide and 80" long. The cup is about 1/8" when measured at the center of this board.


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

Let me rephrase my question..... Should I add moisture to the cupped side (top) or flip it over and add moisture and weight to the bowed side (bottom)?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Put the "U" down and put a heater under it. This will dry the wetter side and flatten the board. Adding moisture isn't really the right way to proceed. And yes, I have done it both ways. Adding moisture is quicker but ends up adding moisture to the board that will need to be taken out.


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## wbhudson (Aug 20, 2012)

Leo G said:


> Put the "U" down and put a heater under it. This will dry the wetter side and flatten the board. Adding moisture isn't really the right way to proceed. And yes, I have done it both ways. Adding moisture is quicker but ends up adding moisture to the board that will need to be taken out.


That sounds like a good plan. Should I wait to apply the finish until I get the curve out?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Yes, once you finish it the moisture release/absorption will be slowed considerably. Get it flat and finish the warm side first if you are going to do one side at a time.


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## Da Aardvark (Oct 11, 2012)

An 1/8th " in a 44" wide board isn't much.
Get a frame ready and do as you are planning and when you've done what you can with it, install the frame instantly afterwards.
With steel frames like I use, that 1/8th" might be able to be drawn out of it just by torquing on the lag bolts.

If you don't install a frame to the underside of that top, it will just find some other way of warping/twisting/cupping. Wood moves. You need to get mean with it.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

It's possible that the underside is absorbing some moisture from the garage floor (assuming the underside is the side that's convex). I'd bring it inside for a while and see what happens. Since that's where it will spend its life when complete, might as well see how it likes it there.


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

wbhudson said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Here's my second post on the forum. Thanks for all of the help last time! My new project is a live edge, soft maple table. I have made a cutting board sized, trial run at finishing with only polyurethane. I really like the tone it gives the wood, after about 4 coats. I had sanded the wood with 220, applied the poly, and wet sanded between each coat. I just feel like there might be a way to get more "umpf" out of the wood. I dont know much about popping grains, anyways. The maple has a lot of character, and I want to do the wood justice, if y'all know what I mean. Thanks for aaaany suggestions !
> 
> I attached a pic of my 4th go at a butterfly joint. Thanks again!


Often, the grain pop is dictated by the particular piece of wood, or the original type of saw cut (flat sawn, quartered, etc.). One product I have found over the years that maximizes the grain pop in what I have is shellac. For maple, where I do not want to shift the color much, I would mix some super-blonde shellac, several thin coats. Shellac also is an excellent sealer would allow you to use less coats of whatever your top coat is. As I said initially, more often than not your limitations are within the piece of wood selected. Here is a comparison of live edge maple. I just finished a bench for a client in live edge Ambrosia Maple. The wood I selected was highly figured. The finish I chose was a flat pre-cat laquer. I wanted the wood to look like a natural piece of wood with just a dull sheen, like paste wax would give it. I did not need shellac, or any other method to try to enhance the grain, it was there. The pic is just a small area of the bench to give you an idea about grain and color. Good luck and have fun.


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