# Table saw issues



## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

I have a craftsman portable saw, 15A. 
http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00921829000P

I have not used it a lot, but Have had it a couple of years. I was ripping a 2X6 the other day and it shot flames and sparks out of the motor. Sears wants 200+ just for the motor. 
At that price, I am asking myself if I should repair it or replace the whole saw. I can not afford another $500 saw, but saw one at HD for 299.
Any idea on a cheaper replacement motor? or other suggeations? 
Thanks


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

how do I tell if this saw uses the same motor as the $120 ryobi from home depot. That would be chaeper than getting the motor from sears. I have read that this is the same as the Ryobi BT3000?


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## mickit (Oct 5, 2009)

Electrical machines require smoke to run. It appears that you have let all the smoke out of yours:laughing: Seriously though, replacing one direct drive saw with another is throwing good money after bad. Check your local C'list for a contractor style saw...you can pick one up for about the same price as a new "jobsite" saw.
My two cents, and worth every bit of it...


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

AFAIK, your Cman 21829 is made by Ryobi and shares many parts with the BT3000 and BT3100, so the motors should be interchangeable but I'm not positive. You might even find that something simple like new brushes will do the trick. There's a website dedicated to those saws called BT3central.com. They really know those saws inside and out, I'd suggest you post there with your question.


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

I have a olllld contractors saw that the motor mount was broken off of when the roof of my shop caved in. That is why I got the new saw. I though it was an upgrade. I like the small storage footprint, And I am just starting to try and learn to build things. So why would that be better than this newer professional saw? I will do some searching, and check the other site taht deals with the ryobi. thanks for the help and starting my education...

And Smoke inside is one thing, but Flames and sparks.... Wow!!!


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

So I am thinking it may be better to replace the handle and motor mounts and stand on my 113.XX craftsman. It is so old and heavy...But has lived through a lot of crashed and bangs.


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## RetiredLE (Jan 20, 2011)

Keep the saw and (if you have the time to look) find a used one for parts. I would assume with that model there are a lot of them out there.


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

That is what I am trying to do on the 113. But not having much luck there either. It is too old to buy parts for, So I am still looking at all options. 
thanks


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

You might have better luck finding a mistreated old 113.###### that's similar enough to strip parts from....many of the Emerson and Ryobi made Cman (315.######) and Ridgid (TS2412, 2424, 3612, TS3650/3660) saws had pretty similar guts, and share some ancestry.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have an old motor mount*



blackestate said:


> I have a olllld contractors saw that the motor mount was broken off of when the roof of my shop caved in. That is why I got the new saw. I though it was an upgrade. I like the small storage footprint, And I am just starting to try and learn to build things. So why would that be better than this newer professional saw? I will do some searching, and check the other site taht deals with the ryobi. thanks for the help and starting my education...
> 
> And Smoke inside is one thing, but Flames and sparks.... Wow!!!





blackestate said:


> So I am thinking it may be better to replace the handle and motor mounts and stand on my 113.XX craftsman. It is so old and heavy...But has lived through a lot of crashed and bangs.





blackestate said:


> That is what I am trying to do on the 113. But not having much luck there either. It is too old to buy parts for, So I am still looking at all options.
> thanks



Some of use have some older parts around. How about a picture of your broken pieces?  bill


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Let's start with some of the above responses pretty obviously know nothing of your saw. The Craftsman Professional 21829 (your model) is the current iteration of the Ryobi BT3x00 series of saws. The 15a motor has been around since the early 90s, and there are hundreds of thousands of them out there. And it is belt driven, not direct drive.

All of the current Ryobi models are direct drive. The motors are quite a bit different...

And let's look at what this saw was designed for, hopefully you weren't pushing it past its limit... This saw was intended to be an accurate, light duty saw. You say you were ripping a 2x6, which is no big deal, but if you are doing a LOT of this work, at a continuous pace, say trying to push 30 2x6s through it in an hour, you are going to do some damage to the universal motor this thing is fitted with. Even typical 1.5HP Contractor saws will bark at that kind of use... You want a 3+ HP cabinet saw if you are going to be doing a LOT of long, deep, sustained rips etc... Typically, you make your cut, power off, move the work piece and cutoffs away from the saw, set up for the next cut and then go again... You need to give the motor some breathing room. Not insinuating that is the cause here, but the major cause for motor failures I have seen in these is people ramming long rip after long rip after long rip through the saw without letting the saw motor cool down between rips... ESPECIALLY if the dust collection isn't hooked up (it needs air flow to not only collect the dust, but also keep cool...)

Your best bet is to look for someone parting out a running BT3100, or 21829 (they are out there). You might be able to source a motor from Ebay, or a new one from M and D mower or similar tool parts source...

Obviously flames and sparks are bad, but they are also very much an odd issue for this saw. I suspect that if you either fix the original motor if possible, or replace it, you will have 15-20 + years of life out of that saw. 

If you have an electric motor shop near you, see just WHAT went bad on yours and get it fixed. Do you know for sure it's the motor and not the wiring / switch? How old is your saw? Is it possibly still under warranty?


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

First, 
thanks so much for the help! you guys are great! 

the 113. I need the motor mount, It broke when the shop crashed in under a heavy snow load. it has 5/8 rods. And it also needs the hand wheels for adjusting the saw. And should probably also get a new stand. Found a mount and some handles on e-bay. Do not know if I will win them or not. We will see. I was just using vice grips on what was left of the handles, till it all came down.

The 2189 was bought by the insurance company as a replacement, and I probably blew it up, this was the 6th rip in a row of a 16' 2X6. I took the outside of the motor apart and the windings are toast, the armature looks ok. So I found just the windings and the housing on e-bay, and it is on it's way here. Hopefully that will fix it. It is obvious where it blew out. just not sure if the inside is still ok. figured it was worth a try.
And I will get a vac for the dust collection, and take it easier on the saw when I get it running again. But it sounds like the idea of just buying a $120 saw just for the motor is not going to work.
I will keep you updated. I do not really use it much, but would like to start learning to do some woodworking.


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## Howard Ferstler (Sep 27, 2007)

There needs to be some clarification here about "direct drive" vs belt drive with circular saws of any kind.

Virtually every universal motor, budget-grade table saw I have looked at or worked with had the motor connected to the blade shaft via a reduction gear or set of reduction gears. They were not direct drive, if by direct drive someone means that the motor shaft and the blade shaft were joined at the axis.

In addition, virtually every hand-held circular saw I have checked out (Skil type saws) also used reduction gears. They were not direct drive either, if direct drive means that the motor shaft is the blade shaft.

So, in nearly all cases (and probably all cases, period), the motor on a so-called direct drive, universal motor, light-duty (jobsite style) table saw is no more directly connected to the blade than with any belt-drive saw.

Howard Ferstler


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Howard Ferstler said:


> There needs to be some clarification here about "direct drive" vs belt drive with circular saws of any kind.
> 
> Virtually every universal motor, budget-grade table saw I have looked at or worked with had the motor connected to the blade shaft via a reduction gear or set of reduction gears. They were not direct drive, if by direct drive someone means that the motor shaft and the blade shaft were joined at the axis.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks HF for your response here, I just asked a similar question in my craftsman 137.218041 ts post. Not sure if I understand quite yet. Seems the direct drive is being given a negative tag by some explanations.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*You are technically correct however*



Howard Ferstler said:


> There needs to be some clarification here about "direct drive" vs belt drive with circular saws of any kind.
> 
> Virtually every universal motor, budget-grade table saw I have looked at or worked with had the motor connected to the blade shaft via a reduction gear or set of reduction gears. They were not direct drive, if by direct drive someone means that the motor shaft and the blade shaft were joined at the axis.
> 
> ...


The manufacturers nomenclature calls out a "belt drive" type saw specifically and often describes the belt as multiple v-groove or 3 matched belts etc. The lack of this description implies a "direct drive" . I happen to have 3 older Craftsman 12" table saws with induction motors where the blade is "directly" mounted on the armature shaft, and therefore would be called "direct drive".
The reason for the gears in the powered circular hand saws and job site saws is that the universal motor AC/DC turns at a higher RPM than is desirable for sawing, I believe 8,000 to 10,000 RPM and needs to be reduced to get the 4,000 to 5,000 RPM blade speed advertised. That's why they "scream" when powered up, they are spinnin' pretty fast. Portable job site saws will also have that AC/DC type motor, it's lighter and cost less to manufacture.
That's my 2 cents.  bill


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

Well, I ordered the windings from e-bay and they do not fit, so I will have to follow up on getting the correct motor. But, I found a used 113. craftsman for $30 working, so I am going to go check it out tomorrow, and possibly bring it home.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

blackestate said:


> Well, I ordered the windings from e-bay and they do not fit, so I will have to follow up on getting the correct motor. But, I found a used 113. craftsman for $30 working, so I am going to go check it out tomorrow, and possibly bring it home.


I would just take the motor to a motor repair shop and get an estimate.












 







.


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## Muisak (Jan 8, 2013)

*113.*** motor fun*

Hey there guys, I realize this is an old post, but I could use a motor for a 113.29950 if you all run across any. My father says this saw is one of the best he's ever had, replaced it with a jet when it died. I'm fairly certain this motor might interchange with some radial arm saws as well, if anyone has any information on that it would be much appreciated. Had it at the local repair shop for a year and they never touched it (pretty sad considering my father started that business in the 70s and sold out) so i'm down for either finding someone online to rewind the motor or another motor lol.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-T...187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6b4de983

http://www.ebay.com/itm/113-298762-...947?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b77e8503


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## Muisak (Jan 8, 2013)

ryan50hrl said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-T...187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6b4de983
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/113-298762-...947?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b77e8503


Direct Drive model

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sears-Craft...359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2579733157

wish I could just stick a regular motor on her lol :smile:


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

blackestate said:


> I have a craftsman portable saw, 15A.
> http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00921829000P
> 
> I have not used it a lot, but Have had it a couple of years. I was ripping a 2X6 the other day and it shot flames and sparks out of the motor. Sears wants 200+ just for the motor.
> ...


Have you taken the motor to a local motor repair shop? You may not need a new motor as the old one may be easily repaired.

George


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

It has taken me this long, but I finally found a Ryobi BT3100, which is the same. The guy had no fence, just the rails, and only the main table. So I got it for $20. and put all the craftsman items on it. and it works, Just have to align the fence to the blade. 
Now I will see if I can lear to build something. 
Thanks
Doug


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

blackestate said:


> It has taken me this long, but I finally found a Ryobi BT3100, which is the same. The guy had no fence, just the rails, and only the main table. So I got it for $20. and put all the craftsman items on it. and it works, Just have to align the fence to the blade.
> Now I will see if I can lear to build something.
> Thanks
> Doug


Glad to hear you got it running without spending a lot of $.
Calling a Craftsman saw "Professional" is a big stretch. 
If I were you I would find the parts for the CM 113. saw and buy a $160 Delta T-2 fence for it.
Then sell the Craftsman "professional" saw, for whatever you can, before it looses it's smoke again.
Unless you need a saw, where you can carry it to a job site, Cast iron saws with belt drive induction motors are the way to go.
For the price of the CM saw with the universal motor and fancy folding stand, one could buy an old Unisaw, which will will still be running when your kids pass it down! 
Good luck with your saws.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*weird motor*



Muisak said:


> Direct Drive model
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sears-Craft...359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2579733157
> 
> wish I could just stick a regular motor on her lol :smile:


I have 3 motorized 12" saws an NONE of them have a double ended shaft like this motor. I don't understand the reasoning on the double ended shaft, since it's virtually inaccesable within the cabinet/base. That may be a RAS motor misnamed on EBay, I donno? 

I have found 12" RASs on CraigsList for as little as $100.00 by folks who don't know what a "prize" they have. I also did the "impossible" according to the local motor repair service which said the motors are "factory sealed and non repairable". I split the cases, and replaced the bearings and bolted it together and I works just fine.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/craftsman-12-ras-motor-rebuild-35737/


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## blackestate (Feb 28, 2011)

I like the small floor space, but I guess I should finish fixing the older saw. All I need are the handles, I found a motor bracket. Also got to get the rust off of it. Where would I look for that delta fence?


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