# Straight line rip saw



## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

Does anyone have any advise on straight line rip saws? They are very pricy. Grizzly has on for around 8K. Are there any models out there for less money that aren't junk?
Thanks


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

A cheaper alternative may be a track feeder on standard table saw.
My buddy has an older one and it's massive. I'm sure they come up in auctions. I had a large mill saw some 14' Cypress boards on their straight line machine a while back and they were not very straight. I made my own from a RAS with a 28 ft long table and a 20 ft long fence. It worked great. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/

That sort of commercial machine is not what most of us here use or have access to ...FYI.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

"Evil Machine"

LOL!

I'll never live it down, will I? :no:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Nope*

:no::laughing: you started it pal......:laughing:


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## Oneal-Woodworking (Apr 14, 2013)

woodnthings said:


> That sort of commercial machine is not what most of us here use or have access to ...FYI.


When I worked at a shop that did 3 to 4 kitchens per day - That sort of thing was 'somewhat' useful...

Assuming that you got a 'good' machine that can reliably crank out the size you want with ease. Does NO good if the thing is not accurate. These machines are for mass production and when doing something like 'doorstock' on them - A mere 'sixteenth' will MATTER a LOT when ripping your stock. 

In my exerience - shops that use these do not worry so much about planing the edges afterwards... :no:

They aint so much worried about stuff like 'accuracy'.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Why do you think you need one? Are you a production shop [owner]. If you're just a small shop a Festool with the long track will get you straight line cutting for a reasonable cost. A lot slower than a production machine.


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

As a part time business/hobby I started building and selling bird houses for wood ducks. Over 1200 sold in the last 4 months. A perfect edge is not necessary but real close would be nice. I would like to straight line saw a full 8 foot board and eliminate the jointer. I am no expert cabinet maker and have lots to learn. My one man shop is for sure a production set up.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*consider this*

An old Foley Belsaw or a Woodmaster has a gang rip assessory that will cut your board to size. http://woodmastertools.com/save_big_now

Much less than $8000 ! under $2000 for the 18" wide.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I get lumber from a Frank Paxton outlet. I have to special order hardwood that isn't straight line ripped. If you want a really good straight line rip saw, Mattison Machine Works has the best reputation for that machine. The company hasn't been in business since 1971 but there are two straight line saws on ebay right now.

According to vintagemachinery.org replacement parts are available for Mattison equipment from a company called Bourn & Koch.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

Buy lumber with one edge ripped and then buy a large table saw with a stock feeder and start shoving lumber through it. 

I doubt you have the needed power available for a real SLR.


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

The power requirements are big for the straight line saw. Most I see have 15 HP motors which would require me to purchase a phase converter. A stock feeder on my table saw would be great if I could figure out how to push the board straight without the use of a fence.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*can't do that*

need the fence! Why don't you want the fence? Did you see the Woodmaster I posted? perfect for your application. find a used one if possible, everyone loves theirs, so none are for sale...


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## Trav (May 30, 2011)

Why would you not use the fence? What is the price difference in buying s4s and the lumber you currently use, and how long would it take to break even after purchasing a straight line rip saw?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Nov 25, 2008)

It costs me about .10 a bf to order lumber with one edge ripped. There is your straight edge to work off of.

You want real fast, get a gang rip saw.


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

I order 8000 BF of White cedar at a time from a small mill in northern MI. They cut the trees, rough saw and deliver it green. I then sticker and air dry the product. After it dries I could deliver it to a local wood shop to have it straight lined but that is a lot of handling. I am considering having it done but I would rather saw it myself.


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

That's a real good reason. Used would probably be the best for your situation. 
Do you have enough power to run a 10-15HP motor? Even if you can convert the single phase to 3 phase you still need the current the motor will draw. Especially the start up current which can spike 3-6X more than full running current. 

Wonder if you could convert it to a gasoline motor and run it that way?


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

I have 220 volts in my barn. Not sure if a phase converter would be efficient in that application. Not sure if It could handle the spike you mention, It is definitely something to look into. Thanks for the info.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*any comment?*



woodnthings said:


> need the fence! Why don't you want the fence? Did you see the Woodmaster I posted? perfect for your application. find a used one if possible, everyone loves theirs, so none are for sale...



Did you see how well this works?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Cx2mnQd606g#t=225s

Why are you still thinking about huge 3 phase machines when this will do...I don't get it.


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

I looks to me that machine would require a straight edge to start with. Am I wrong? What keeps the board feeding straight? As you know the straight line rip saws have a conveyor track system that guides the board straight, If a straight edge is not needed the machine would be the ticket,
Thanks


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

gpeck said:


> I looks to me that machine would require a straight edge to start with. Am I wrong? What keeps the board feeding straight? As you know the straight line rip saws have a conveyor track system that guides the board straight, If a straight edge is not needed the machine would be the ticket,
> Thanks


 A staight line rip saw has a fence but it's more for aiming the board into the conveyer. Once the conveyer has hold of the board you could take the fence off. The conveyer will pull the board through in a straight line. If it was operated off the fence it wouldn't staighten the wood any more than using a table saw.


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

It seems to me that with a little ingenuity a guy could develop a system that would guide a 8 foot board straight through the wood master gang saw. Maybe something that incorporates a linear guide rail with bearing trucks. I guess I want my cake and want to be able to eat it too. A the end of the day a gang saw that would cut straight without 10 minutes of set up before each cut is what I want. I need something set up for production. The saw would rip 8 foot cedar boards at 9.375 wide and that would be its only use. I would rip 1000 boards per run. 
I love the gang saw concept, just need a way cut straight.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that should be easy*

You'll need a straight board that's thinner than your stock, a bit longer, AND has parallel edges. Just start the cut with the two boards mated together AND so the straight one rides the "fence" on the guide. The longer the fence and the longer your straight board, the more accurate you cuts will be. You may just need a long fence on the guide...no additional board. That's what I did when I straight lined 14' long Cypress. My fence was 20 ft long...

  


You should call Woodmaster and ask the Tech Service guy what they recommend for your application. You may be surprised ... I donno?


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

Why couldn't a guy build a sheet metal "feeder trough" for the gang saw that would start the board moving in the right direction, maybe a couple feet long. There could be a "catch trough" on the opposite end just wider than the finished width of the board. It could be about 3 feet long and act as a guide to keep the cuts straight. Does that sound crazy?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*your problem will be ....*

Unless the feed system will shoot the board through in a straight line .... a call to Woodmaster will help... you will still have curve on the original edge which needs to be removed. When I straight lined my boards I took off about 3/8" to get a full straight edge, then flipped the board over and ran the newly straightened edge against the fence. 
1-800-821-6651 I talked to Mark.

By having multiple blades, gang saw style, you may end up with enough width to remove curves on both edges.... I donno? There may be a simple answer OR experimentation will give you the best results. I'm sure you are not the first one to raise these issues, so they may have better first hand advice.

If all else fails, and others beside me have suggested a track feeder on a regular table saw will save hours of labor and energy. I would also recommend a long fence, 16 ft, on the table saw. That way your 8 ft board will have a continuous surface to ride, even though it may have a concave curve on the edge..... only 2 points. As long as those 2 point don't pull away from the fence you will have a straight cutoff.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Track-Feeder-w-4-Speeds-Single-Phase/G1135


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I doubt if you could juryrig a straight line gang rip saw. The action of sawing pulls at the conveyer and if you had more than one blade cutting I doubt if the conveyer could handle it. I can't remember the brand of straight line saw I used but the conveyer would slip once in a while and cut a board crooked and have to do it over.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Steve Neul said:


> I doubt if you could juryrig a straight line gang rip saw. The action of sawing pulls at the conveyer and if you had more than one blade cutting I doubt if the conveyer could handle it. I can't remember the brand of straight line saw I used but the conveyer would slip once in a while and cut a board crooked and have to do it over.


i talked to Mark at Woodmaster who said their machine uses 2 feed rollers, one pulling, one pushing. If a long fence were set up in the guide tray or on one side of the machine using a steel bar and a feather board was used to hold the work against the bar, I don't see any issues..... I could be wrong.

Similarly, if a track or roller feeder were set up to push the work through, canted toward a long fence, that should give similar results..... again I could be wrong. It would certainly be the least expensive solution to the problem, if the OP has a decent table saw. 

In my RAS ripping project the 20 ft long fence was the key. If a curved board touched the fence in 2 places and as long as it remained in contact, the result was a straight rip.


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

At the very least you guys are giving me a great education, lots of ideas and very enlightening. I plan to call wood master on monday.
Thanks


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Gang rips on a Woodmaster set up with guide boards works very well. Even using a long straightedge and a handheld circular saw works well, and takes very little time to set up. I wouldn't rip long boards on a RAS, or short ones for that matter. It may require taking steps and/or changing hands which can result in than a less than perfect cut.



















.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*really?*



cabinetman said:


> up *I wouldn't rip long boards on a RAS, or short ones for that matter. It may require taking steps and/or changing hands which can result in than a less than perfect cut.*



How is ripping on a RAS different than on a table saw, where you may have to stop momentarily and regrip the board or take a step toward the saw while pushing the work through? I had no issues ripping 14 ft long boards, but I had a helper and used a push board. Shorter boards, like 8ft in this thread, would be even easier for a one man operation. A "less than perfect cut" for bird houses? Really? I don't think the birds would care if there is a saw blade mark on one edge....I could be wrong. :blink:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

*Yes Really*



woodnthings said:


> How is ripping on a RAS different than on a table saw, where you may have to stop momentarily and regrip the board or take a step toward the saw while pushing the work through? I had no issues ripping 14 ft long boards, but I had a helper and used a push board. Shorter boards, like 8ft in this thread, would be even easier for a one man operation. A "less than perfect cut" for bird houses? Really? I don't think the birds would care if there is a saw blade mark on one edge....I could be wrong. :blink:


How is ripping on a TS different than a RAS?

The physics:

RAS's have several points of connection from the blade tips to the column. Unless all the play has been eliminated, you have a less than accurate cutting device.

Table saws have a very flat table which is usually very smooth as is the fence face, offering minimum resistance to stock being moved through to be cut. Many table saws are set up with outfeed tables consisting of a flat slick surface in line with the saw table, offering well supported movement of the stock.

As you can tell, I'm not an advocate of ripping on a RAS. IMO, it's not safe.



















.


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> How is ripping on a TS different than a RAS?
> 
> The physics:
> 
> ...


Ripping on a RAS is unsafe because most people do it backwards. 

Remember that the table is sacrificial on a RAS. Set the head so that the blade is trying to pull the wood in, then crank down the height so that there is about half an inch left between the motor and the top of the work. You now have a setup with zero clearance to the blade for clean cuts, that it is physically impossible toe get kickback with. 

A RAS is not a table saw. The mechanics of the cuts are entirely different. If you try to apply table saw rules to a RAS you will get problems. Just like you would if you if you tried to use safe RAS methods on a table saw.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> i talked to Mark at Woodmaster who said their machine uses 2 feed rollers, one pulling, one pushing. If a long fence were set up in the guide tray or on one side of the machine using a steel bar and a feather board was used to hold the work against the bar, I don't see any issues..... I could be wrong.
> 
> Similarly, if a track or roller feeder were set up to push the work through, canted toward a long fence, that should give similar results..... again I could be wrong. It would certainly be the least expensive solution to the problem, if the OP has a decent table saw.
> 
> In my RAS ripping project the 20 ft long fence was the key. If a curved board touched the fence in 2 places and as long as it remained in contact, the result was a straight rip.


 I don't know if it would work either. I have to believe if it was that simple some machine manufacturer would already be making it. It may be that once the board is started to be ripped there is not a edge for the fence anymore on the back side since the board would be in strips then. You know how some boards warp in all different directions after being ripped.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Woah!*



jigs-n-fixtures said:


> *Ripping on a RAS is unsafe because most people do it backwards. *


That doesn't make it unsafe for people who do it correctly....does it?
I totally understand the physics of the saw blade lifting up the workpiece when the blade enters as opposed to pulling the workpiece down as on the table saw when the blade enters. After the blade enters the RAS, the blade cover/guard nose should be rotated to within 1/16" of the top of the workpiece to prevent lift up as shown here:
 

I even added an infeed rooler, mounted just above the thickness of the workpiece, but after using it with the blade guard/cover rotated to within 1/16", found it unnecessary and actually in the way of pushing the boards all the way through. I took it off.

As far as the saw not being set up correctly and play in the various pivots and carriage that's a matter of design, maintenance and setup, not an inherently unsafe operation...... i could be wrong.
Look I've done this, not just thought about it, done it. When it's done correctly, it's as safe as any powertool operation.... still dangerous to some extent. 
Here's another example:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/straight-line-rip-saw-39214/

I have chosen to stick to the ras straight-line with a 12' infeed and outfeed tables. My fence however is adjustable to extend to 17'. I found this ras cheap cheap. It still needs some clean up for looks but is fully functional. We will mount a 1 hp power feeder on the outfeed and see how she works tomorrow. 
P.S. I very much like the idea of a carriage/sled and will pursue it as a more permanent solution. 
Attached Thumbnails


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## gpeck (Nov 24, 2010)

I talked to a guy at woodmaster today. He said the only way to get a straight rip on the gang saw would be with a "sled" under the board you plan to cut. Any other ideas I had for the saw he shot down. What is the dangerous part of ripping on a RAS? If a long fence an 2 points of contact will work I may peruse that idea. Is it more prone to kick back? Don't RAS have anti kick back fingers?
Thanks


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*That's a whole 'nother thread....*

Using a RAS for production ripping would require a long table, a stock feeder and a blade cover guard that can be rotated around so the nose is just above the workpiece. Like this:
 

You'll end up with a straight line on the outer edge of the board then you have to reset the width for your "target" dimension.
I think its possible top make it work as I did for my 40 pieces of 1" Cypress 14 ft long. 
Those older, heavy duty RAS will have the power to run all day long but may require a 3 phase power source. There are some 5 HP single phase models around and that's what I would use. A roller return feed would speed up the material handling aspect.

I'm sure you will get warnings about ripping on the RAS ...but with the proper setup and guards there should not be any safety issues. The main thing is to have a hold down preceeding the work's entry into the blade which will lift the work off the table unless restrained. 

The same thing can be done on the table saw with a long fence and a stock feeder. You'll need the same foot print for a run of 8 ft boards...roughly 20 ft.of run in the shop.You can get a 20 ft section of steel tube and use it as a fence addition and support it with rollers or other means to support the work and keep the fence level. Again I would like to see a 5 HP table saw for the production runs, but a good 3 HP will also work.

This straight line jig will handle 8 ft long boards:


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