# Water Based Shellac



## bargoon (Apr 20, 2016)

So I'm finding out that it is difficult to find dewaxed shellac like Bullseye Sealcoat in WW retail stores in Canada. The other day I was in a Lee Valley store and noticed they sell water-based dewaxed shellac. I thought all shellacs were alcohol based?

Anyone have experience with water-based shellac?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bargoon said:


> So I'm finding out that it is difficult to find dewaxed shellac like Bullseye Sealcoat in WW retail stores in Canada. The other day I was in a Lee Valley store and noticed they sell water-based dewaxed shellac. I thought all shellacs were alcohol based?
> 
> Anyone have experience with water-based shellac?


Except for latex wall paint I don't trust any water based finish. I'm wondering if you can get denatured alcohol there? If so you should be able to get the dewaxed shellac in flake form even if you have to mail order it from the US. It's actually better to mix your own so it's fresh.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

I agree, always use flakes, mix as needed. Shellac doesn't keep well.
As for water based finishes: There are very good ones but for what ever reason they seem to only be sold thru the professional channels. 
We use a Sherwin Williams water borne finish that can be catalyzed. Since most post cat finishes use an acid based catalyst there may be a problem selling them at retail. They also require careful control of ratios.


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## Laurence Wardale (Sep 11, 2017)

*water based shellac*



bargoon said:


> So I'm finding out that it is difficult to find dewaxed shellac like Bullseye Sealcoat in WW retail stores in Canada. The other day I was in a Lee Valley store and noticed they sell water-based dewaxed shellac. I thought all shellacs were alcohol based?
> 
> Anyone have experience with water-based shellac?


No but stay away from this product useless you are trying to overcome an issue with the wood staining evenly. 
This product is good as a sealer to be top coated by another product ie Lacquer polyurethane etc. Its main purpose is more like a wood conditioner . Some woods like pine will stain unevenly, and so you would you this to negate the blotchy finish that would happen if you did not use a wood conditioner . As previously stated go with Shellac Flakes de-waxed and denatured alcohol, you will pay more for this and Lee Valley sells it.. 
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=72634&cat=42942 
Good fortune in your finishing :nerd2:


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Shellac mixed from flakes is best and I swear it dries harder than pre-mixed. I've also read that waterborne shellac will be re-dissolved by water which isn't good.

Larry, I'd love to learn more about the waterborne finishes you've had success with. I'd LOVE to find one, but the ones I've tried so far have either looked bad or have been finicky to spray.


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## Larry42 (Jan 10, 2014)

*Water borne finishes*

I run a commercial shop and have used water borne finishes for about 20 years. Over that time they have become much better. My first ones were from Hood. Their urethane water borne was super durable but raised the grain so bad on porous woods that they were all but impossible to use. We switched to Sherwin Williams. Not as durable and required a high skill level to get a good finish. They had an optional catalyst for better durability. Switched to M.L. Campbell when they brought out a new formulation. Worked better but their distributor wasn't so good. SW brought out an improved formulation that was a little easier to use that we are currently using. Kem Aqua Plus T75 F 557. I don't think it is available through their retail stores. We get it through their industrial division. We use water borne finishes because of the health affects & fire hazard of solvents. The best finish depends on your criteria. Durability? go for catalyzed varnish. Aesthetics? grain fill then cat varnish. Be fore warned, catalysts are acid based. Not good for your heath. 

To help you get up to speed faster, here is what we have learned about using WB finishes: Don't try to spray them like lacquer! Spray as they come, no thinning. Don't use high pressure pumps (airless) they will cause air bubbles to become entrained. We use HVL spray guns and Greco diaphragm pumps. You can use regular spray guns if you use the correct tips and keep the pressures down. It is possible to hand apply but hard to get a good looking finish. 

Our sequence: Sand to 150, blow off dust, dust coat (very thin coat who's purpose is to seal the fuzz down and create a uniform surface for the stain if you are staining.) A quick scuff sand with sanding sponges (don't sand through the dust coat!) Stain with compatible material, we prefer the metal based dyes or micro ground colorants. We buy stain base and add color as needed some times. It is possible to use an oil based stain but be very careful to stay within the timing window. With any additional coats keep them relatively thin. They will look sort of textured when first sprayed but will self level if done correctly. Next comes the seal coat, scuff sand, evaluate the color consistency and do some toning if required. Just use some finish mixed with a little stain or dye in a touchup gun. There is a bit of a learning curve to get a well blended look. Less is better than too much. The problem with doing toning is that you will build finish unevenly and have to take that into account with your finish coat(s) to bring all areas up to about the same look. 

Dry time is about 20 minutes to be ready to scuff if you have done it right (*not too thick!*) We pack and ship the next day.


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