# Looking to make a hairpin leg dining table - few questions



## vgurevich (Jul 24, 2013)

Hello all, 

I'm looking to make a quick dining room table for my small apartment. I'm going for something that looks like this - http://st.houzz.com/simgs/a84187fb02801e39_4-8059/modern-dining-tables.jpg - but not necessarily with the three lines going down the table length. 

Had a few design questions that I was hoping to figure out... 

1) Going for a 4 seat table - I'm thinking 36"x36" - does that seem reasonable?
2) How thick of a tabletop should I be going for? Cost is an issue, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to use a 4/4 board. What do you think?
3) Ideally I can get a wide enough board to minimize the number of boards that go into this - but realistically I might be limited to an 8 or 6 inch width, which would required 5-6 boards glued side by side. What's the best way to join them, while keeping the tabletop flat? Just glue? Biscuits?
4) Would you recommend any cross brace going on the underside of the boards?
5) Do hairpin legs just screw right into the underside of the tabletop?


Here's my general plan for making the tabletop:
1) Cross cut board to length (36")
2) Joint a face
3) Joint an edge
4) Plane to even thicknesses
5) Rip an edge
6) Joint faces for glue up
7) Biscuits? Dowels?
8) Glueup
10) Crosscut end grain to get smooth edge
11) Sand

What am I missing?


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## brizak79 (May 20, 2011)

What type of wood are you using? What aesthetic are you going for; rustic, modern, etc?


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## vgurevich (Jul 24, 2013)

brizak79 said:


> What type of wood are you using? What aesthetic are you going for; rustic, modern, etc?


 Wood will be a hardwood - most likely something red/brown like mahogany or walnut. 

Going for a look similar to what's in the picture - I like the hairpin legs, but I'm not sure about the distinct lines in the tabletop.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

From your post, I'm assuming you don't have a lot of experience so forgive me if I am suggesting too easy an approach. You could use 3/4 hardwood plywood and edge band it with 3/4" x 1 1/2" strips of the same type of hardwood. 3/4 ply is pretty strong and the edge bands will increase the strength plus make it look more substantial. This will give you a lot of stability and the look you are after. I think 36 x 36 will be fine but take a look at 4 person tables that are sold commercially. Folding card tables seem to be 32x32 so I think 36 will be ok.


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## vgurevich (Jul 24, 2013)

PhilBa said:


> From your post, I'm assuming you don't have a lot of experience so forgive me if I am suggesting too easy an approach. You could use 3/4 hardwood plywood and edge band it with 3/4" x 1 1/2" strips of the same type of hardwood. 3/4 ply is pretty strong and the edge bands will increase the strength plus make it look more substantial. This will give you a lot of stability and the look you are after. I think 36 x 36 will be fine but take a look at 4 person tables that are sold commercially. Folding card tables seem to be 32x32 so I think 36 will be ok.


I have a bit more experience than it sounds - but most of my work so far has been much smaller. I have made a ton of picture frames, a decorative box, things like that. I've never made anything as substantial as a tabletop. 

I'd prefer to use hardwood - and I think I'd be capable of doing it, plus my "workshop" has a bunch of great members that are willing to help answer my questions. I have just never done biscuit or dowels for glue ups before, but I'm not sure if they're necessary for something of this size.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Biscuits and dowels are not necessary. I probably would use a couple of boards at 90 degrees on the underside.

I would think that the big question is where will you get the legs?

George


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## brizak79 (May 20, 2011)

GeorgeC said:


> Biscuits and dowels are not necessary. I probably would use a couple of boards at 90 degrees on the underside.
> 
> I would think that the big question is where will you get the legs?
> 
> George


The legs are easy; a simple Google search will bring up at least half a dozen manufacturers of them. I got some through http://hairpinlegsforless.com/ and they are a great quality. If you want the same look as in the link you provided, you may not even have to glue the pieces together. Looks like there may be a gap between the boards, so screwing them to a few cleats on the bottom may be all you need to do. Looks like maybe using 5/4 or 6/4 boards would give you the same thickness, too.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

Good to hear. Definitely don't need biscuits - butt joints will be fine. Plan for wood movement on the top though. You might want to consider a breadboard end. I would use a frame to attach the legs to rather than directly to the top. Plywood seems a lot simpler... 

Those legs get pricey when you add a finish!


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## vgurevich (Jul 24, 2013)

PhilBa said:


> Good to hear. Definitely don't need biscuits - butt joints will be fine. Plan for wood movement on the top though. You might want to consider a breadboard end. I would use a frame to attach the legs to rather than directly to the top. Plywood seems a lot simpler...
> 
> Those legs get pricey when you add a finish!


I guess that's my main question - how to plan for wood movement for the frame underneath. 

Do I just attach 2 cleats to the underside (http://www.tablelegs.com/Mid-Century-Modern-Furniture-Legs.aspx - scroll towards the bottom) and call it good? 

Will the hairpin legs attach to the cleats?


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

If you use cleats underneath, you need to affix them in a way that does not impede the wood movement of the top. Like using screws, but elongating the screw holes when you drill them. Make the holes longer in the direction across the width of the top, not going the lengthwise of the top. You can glue the tops boards together and not need the boards underneath. The edges would need to be jointed and square to each other before clamping. That would make a solid top, without the lines between the boards. Up to you which look you're going for. Good luck.


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## vgurevich (Jul 24, 2013)

rayking49 said:


> If you use cleats underneath, you need to affix them in a way that does not impede the wood movement of the top. Like using screws, but elongating the screw holes when you drill them. Make the holes longer in the direction across the width of the top, not going the lengthwise of the top. You can glue the tops boards together and not need the boards underneath. The edges would need to be jointed and square to each other before clamping. That would make a solid top, without the lines between the boards. Up to you which look you're going for. Good luck.


Yeah, I'm familiar with wood movement - that's similar to how you would use breadboard ends. I've never used cleats before though, so I wasn't sure if these had a specific way of mounting them to allow for the wood movement.

I'm leaning towards not using cleats, and just joining the boards and doing a glue up. However, I'm not sure how to attach the legs - do I just screw them straight into the top, or would you recommend having something in between the tabletop and the legs?


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

You will need a frame to carry the downward force on the table top to the legs. Consider a glued up top with the legs attached directly to the top. Then consider someone sitting on the table on a side that has the table top boards perpendicular to the edge. That's a lot of force on butt joints (even with splines, biscuits, whatever). Think about how those Karate guys break boards, that's what would be going on in this case.

I would build a frame from something like 1x3 stock and attach the top to that. What I'm not sure about is how that could be made to look nice. Plywood is looking a lot easier now!


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## vgurevich (Jul 24, 2013)

PhilBa said:


> You will need a frame to carry the downward force on the table top to the legs. Consider a glued up top with the legs attached directly to the top. Then consider someone sitting on the table on a side that has the table top boards perpendicular to the edge. That's a lot of force on butt joints (even with splines, biscuits, whatever). Think about how those Karate guys break boards, that's what would be going on in this case.
> 
> I would build a frame from something like 1x3 stock and attach the top to that. What I'm not sure about is how that could be made to look nice. Plywood is looking a lot easier now!


What do you envision the frame to look like? The picture I posted in the original post doesn't appear to have a frame - it appears the legs just screw into the top.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

Hmmm, not so sure. Looking at the picture, it looks like 3 solid wood boards - probably 1" thick, maybe more. That's why there are lines. They may not even be joined together. I'd guess that it's pine based on some of the grain I can see. Maybe reclaimed wood. I'd bet there is some sort of frame underneath like in the attached picture. 

I seriously doubt the legs are just attached to the top planks.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if those two ideas will work for this case.


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## vgurevich (Jul 24, 2013)

That makes sense - it would at least distribute the load throughout the tabletop to the legs. 

I'm thinking I'll actually make this top of pine and the frame out of pine as well. I'll slot the holes in the frame and attach only the center hole without slotting to account for wood movement. Would the frame attach with just regular wood screws? Does that mean the only thing holding the frame to the table top would be the center screws, and the area under the head of the outer wood screws?


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## rayking49 (Nov 6, 2011)

Using pan head screws would be better than countersunk. That way, even if the screws are just snug, they will hold and not pull through. Then they can move with the wood.


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