# Using Dowels - Need Tips



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

Hey All,

Yesterday was the first time I ever used dowels to join wood. My current project is a pretty simple bathroom wall cabinet that I made difficult because instead of following the simple plans to glue and screw, I wanted to use some sort of advanced joinery. That was my first problem.

Second, I've never done dowel joinery before and because it's a fairly small project in terms of size and cost, I figured I'd try it out. I bought a dowel jig, drill bit collar stops, 3/8" pegs, etc. 

My project is a mess. The brad point bits I used tore up the pine I'm using and left eye sores on the wood (you won't see them but still...). I thought I correctly calculated the dowel measurements for depth but some of them don't fit snug into each insert, leaving a tiny gap between the two pieces and requiring me to go back and drill deeper inserts. Lastly, some of my edges aren't squared. The whole cabinet, when put together, creaks and wobbles, which can be easily fixed by glue, but if I was going to do that I wouldn't have used dowels in the first place.

Is dowel joinery this much of a pain? Or am I doing something terribly wrong?

I need serious help, tips, anything. Thanks.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Pictures or a sketch of the cabinet, and where you used dowels would be a big help. I wouldn't consider "dowel joinery" an advanced joinery method, but rather an alternative method. As you stated, there are parameters that make for a good dowel fittings. For casework assembly there are better, easier, and more predictable joinery methods.









 







.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

OHNOIMONFIRE said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Yesterday was the first time I ever used dowels to join wood. My current project is a pretty simple bathroom wall cabinet that I made difficult because instead of following the simple plans to glue and screw, I wanted to use some sort of advanced joinery. That was my first problem.
> 
> ...


 The dowel joint is a age old method of joining wood. It is still widely used today and is still a perfectly acceptable method of joining wood. I don't understand why you didn't glue the joints. It's the most important step. Any joint you use will need to be glued. 

Normally a brad point bit drills a very good hole. Perhaps the bit needs sharpening or maybe you need to go slower when starting the hole.


----------



## J Thomas (Aug 14, 2012)

Perhaps the reason for the gaps is in the gluing method. If there's too much glue in the hole the dowel can't seat to the bottom. It's trying to compress the glue in the base of the hole much like a hydraulic piston.. 
A dry run for fit up is always a good idea. When you're ready to spread the glue go light on the dowel holes.
Just my .02
Good luck with the project & do post some fotos.
..Jon..


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I have used dowels many times. They are for me an easy method for either aligning long boards, or reinforcing the joint for end grain to face/side grain.

For edge work, my jig sits on top of the edge of the piece and makes contact with the wood. I do not get tear out. I normally use twist drill bits, mostly due to my stop collars being able to screw to the bit better than my dual spiral brad point bits.

If the stop is set correctly, I get a consistent hole. I make my holes a little more than 1/2 the length of the dowel.

I always do a dry fit. I want to ensure the dowels will fit snug without the gap you observed, and if to ensure the dowel is not too snug which can impact the glue flow and strength of the joint.

I normally do a light hand sanding on my dowels.

For drilling on the face/side grain where my edge jig will not work, I drill the edge holes first, then insert dowel centers to mark the hole locations on the face/side grain board.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=44995&cat=1,180,42288&ap=1

I drill the face/side grain holes on the drill press. I normally use the same twist drill, sometimes I may use my brad point drills.

I rarely use pine, but it is not uncommon to have some tearout. Sometimes slower works better than faster, sometimes faster works better than slower. Not easy to figure. Just test on scrap first.

Good luck with you next use of dowels. I would not let the first attempt put you off.


----------



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> I have used dowels many times. They are for me an easy method for either aligning long boards, or reinforcing the joint for end grain to face/side grain.
> 
> For edge work, my jig sits on top of the edge of the piece and makes contact with the wood. I do not get tear out. I normally use twist drill bits, mostly due to my stop collars being able to screw to the bit better than my dual spiral brad point bits.
> 
> ...


Dave, those dowel centers are probably exactly what I needed and why my boards aren't lining up. I was having issues getting my bit collars to rest snug on my brad points too. This post was a huge help. Thanks.


----------



## Gilgaron (Mar 16, 2012)

If your collars are fussy, I find some masking tape on the bit is just as good for judging depth.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

J Thomas said:


> Perhaps the reason for the gaps is in the gluing method. If there's too much glue in the hole the dowel can't seat to the bottom. It's trying to compress the glue in the base of the hole much like a hydraulic piston..
> A dry run for fit up is always a good idea. When you're ready to spread the glue go light on the dowel holes.
> Just my .02
> Good luck with the project & do post some fotos.
> ..Jon..


A well fitted dowel can be like a piston in a cylinder. If you use spiral cut dowels, or fluted dowels, they give the glue and air a way to escape.

If you make your own from plain dowel rod, create some profile grooves for relief. You can do that with gripping the dowel with the teeth of a slip joint piers, and tapping the dowel through with a hammer.










 







.


----------



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

Guys,

I'm going to open this topic back up. The last project I did (the messy one) I did with a handheld dowel jig that apparently is most of the reason why it turned out as bad as it did. I didn't even realize these $50-$60 dowel jigs that act as a vise exist. 

How legit are they? Is there a specific brand that you recommend? I'm going to give it another shot on an upcoming project.


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

OHNOIMONFIRE said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Yesterday was the first time I ever used dowels to join wood. My current project is a pretty simple bathroom wall cabinet that I made difficult because instead of following the simple plans to glue and screw, I wanted to use some sort of advanced joinery. That was my first problem.
> 
> ...


Maybe I am miss-reading this. You say you were not planning on using glue?

You would most certainly use glue with the dowels and for any other joints.

George


----------



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

I was planning on using glue but not until the dowels fit, which they didn't.


----------



## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Even using a doweling jig it helps to use a brad point drill bit. With that type of drill bit is less likely to walk around and follow the soft part of the grain. Try one with your handheld doweling jig and see what it does.


----------



## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Brad point bits do a great job, but the slightest starting eccentricity can throw off the hole's direction. There are a few tips. You could make a starter point with a scratch awl. You can start with a much smaller drill bit. You can set the bit to the point (not running) and physically rotate the bit backwards with your hand on the chuck to get a pilot. It all depends on how accurate you want the fit, and what you are willing to do to accomplish it.










 







.


----------



## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

An alternative to using a dowel jig is to use "dowel centres", buttons with points that fit into the first set of holes and mark the position of the matching holes.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=859&sid=AF078 

Not sure what thickness your material is but generally the diameter of the dowel would be 1/3 the thickness so with 3/4" material 1/4" dowels would be used.


----------



## nblasa (Nov 29, 2011)

I think a point that is being left out is that using dowels requires super precision, and it is kind of difficult until you develop the mad skills that some of these guys obviously have. I have trouble with this on things where a hole needs to drilled EXACTLY where it needs to go not even 1/32 off. There are jigs out there that you can buy, and there are also jigs that you can make to ensure even spacing. Say you want your cabinet shelves to each have two dowels, you'd drill two holes in a piece of hardboard or scrap with a stop on the front and clamp it to each spot that you'll be drilling dowels so that you know they will be uniform the entire way down the cabinet. The drill press always increases precision as opposed to a hand drill...don't know what you're using. For me, drilling precise holes is much more nerve racking than any cut on the table saw because it can throw things so far out of whack. I'd be more inclined to cut some dado grooves for the shelves and glue them up that way instead of dowels.


----------



## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

I am also doing my first project with dowels in the next few weeks. I started a couple posts on here in the last week about dowels. Yesterday I went to the local woodcraft and picked up a few things to get started on dowel joints. 

I got this jig based on a recomendation from another member here, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2000782/9874/deluxe-doweling-jig.aspx. It's made in the USA and looks to be a great tool. I tried it out on some scrap 2x4s and it seems to work great, of coarse the edges of the 2x4s are rounded so can't tell if they are perfectly lined up but I would say they are. I also bought some of the dowel centers, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2000783/2562/dowel-and-tenon-centers-14-10.aspx. I will be doing an edge to face dowel. I will use the self centering jig to drill into the edge of the first piece. Then I will insert a dowel center into that hole I just drilled. Then put the pieces together so the dowel center will mark the face of the other piece. Then I will use a drill guide, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2000380/3695/drill-guide.aspx to drill into the face of the other board perfectly straight. I also bought a brad point 1/4" bit for my dowels, I wanted a good bit that will only be used for dowels.

I did a lot of reading about dowels and asked a bunch of questions and I wanted to eliminate as much of the guess work as possible. The tools are worth the price in order to get everything perfectly lined up. Now if my project doesn't turn out I can't blame it on not having the right tools, it will be all my screw up!


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

ponch37300 said:


> I am also doing my first project with dowels in the next few weeks. I started a couple posts on here in the last week about dowels. Yesterday I went to the local woodcraft and picked up a few things to get started on dowel joints.
> 
> I did a lot of reading about dowels and asked a bunch of questions and I wanted to eliminate as much of the guess work as possible. The tools are worth the price in order to get everything perfectly lined up. Now if my project doesn't turn out I can't blame it on not having the right tools, it will be all my screw up!


Terrific. It is nice to see a post to let others know that the collective advise was useful, and especially was used. So many posters asking for information and or advise do not come back and let everyone know how things worked out. :thumbsup:


----------



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

Okay guys, I bought the attached dowel jig this AM on Amazon. I also bought some of those dowel centers. I'm finishing up a separate project and will be starting a magazine side table this weekend. I want to get it right, so ill be taking pictures of my progress and posting it on here as I go.


----------



## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

OHNOIMONFIRE said:


> Okay guys, I bought the attached dowel jig this AM on Amazon. I also bought some of those dowel centers. I'm finishing up a separate project and will be starting a magazine side table this weekend. I want to get it right, so ill be taking pictures of my progress and posting it on here as I go.


That's the same one I picked up yesterday, haven't used it yet except to test it out but it looks and feels like a nice tool. I also picked up a set of drill stops tonight. I was at fleet farm and while the better half was looking at some stuff I was walking up and down the aisles and saw a set of empire made in the USA for 6 bucks so picked them up. I don't think they are a must, can just use tape but for 6 bucks I thought it was worth it.

My advice and what I'm planing on doing is get some scrap or cheap wood and do some practice dowels before doing your project. This way you can work all the bugs out so you don't mess up on the real project!

Let me know how it goes since I will be doing the same thing as soon as I get the wood.


----------



## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

Dave Paine said:


> Terrific. It is nice to see a post to let others know that the collective advise was useful, and especially was used. So many posters asking for information and or advise do not come back and let everyone know how things worked out. :thumbsup:


Thanks Dave. I try to post results and give advice when I can since I mostly soak up the advice from others knowledge.


----------



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

The new dowel jig helps so much more than the one I was using before. Thanks for the tips everyone.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for the update and pictures. 

I do like to see a positive conclusion to a thread. :thumbsup:


----------



## ponch37300 (Feb 27, 2008)

That's great to hear. I haven't got to use mine yet but hopefully soon.


----------



## msbeal (Oct 3, 2010)

*Lee-Valley's new dowell jig*

I just picked up my first dowell jig at Lee-Valley the other day and tried it out on a shop shooting jig I was making just for the dowelling practice. 

I have zero experience with doweling jigs. In analyzing my crappy results I notice a few things. 

1. Those dowels are tight. I'm not sure how you'd 'dry fit' that sucker and not tear up your project getting them back apart. 

2. Despite drilling holes about an 1/8th longer than half the dowel's length it STILL didn't seat fully. (too much glue maybe?) Next time I'll swab out most of the excess glue. Q-tip maybe. 

3. If you have to 'move' your jig say along an edge of a board, you'd better make darn sure you holes line up on that one axis shared between the boards you are joining. Do what ever it takes (find a ruler that has GPS built in? lol)

3. I discovered I had made a fundamental mistake. Imagine the two pieces of wood being joined have 'show' edges, the part where you'd like these two pieces to line up perfectly and is exposed to view on your project. 

I set my jig along one pieces' show join edge and had the perfect set back, on the other piece I set my jig along the back edge of the board, away from it's show edge, thinking both pieces were the same thickness. They weren't!! lol The join suffering major gap-osis. 

The lesson; if you want two pieces of wood to be joined using a dowelling jig make sure you let your jig line up off the correct show edges so that it's built-in set back is perfectly equal. 

Another general lesson: always practice with new things first. That one I got right.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

The number 1 and 2 items are linked.

If the dowels are too tight the glue is not able to squeeze out and you will have to exert a lot of force and still may not be able to close the joint. Been-there-had-that-happen.

These days I do a light hand sanding of the dowels so that I can hand press them into the hole. If they do not fit I sand a little more until they do fit.

I always dry fit my doweled joints. I do not want to repeat my "experience" where the glued joint would not clamp together.

If the Veritas Dowel jig was like this one I share the "learning".
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32249&cat=1,180,42311,42319

The jig is well built, but you really have to be careful in the placement of the pin. It is too easy to be off just a little and the error adds as you go down the board. I also found this out the hard way.


----------



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

msbeal said:


> I just picked up my first dowell jig at Lee-Valley the other day and tried it out on a shop shooting jig I was making just for the dowelling practice.
> 
> I have zero experience with doweling jigs. In analyzing my crappy results I notice a few things.
> 
> ...


Do you have a picture of the jig? I'm a beginner and my jig made it extremely easy.


----------



## msbeal (Oct 3, 2010)

My mistake. It's the other Canadian outfit I buy from Jessem.com

http://www.jessem.com/DOWELING_JIG.html


My model was a brand new model that only shipped at the end of last month and already I see they have a different looking model on their web site. Gees, did they sell me one of their "brand new discontinued" models?? I bought the lemon? LOL


----------



## msbeal (Oct 3, 2010)

Thanks Dave. I'll practice some more and, if need be, I'll try sanding the dowells down a bit. I'm using these pre-compressed guys that already have grooves in them so they should be ready to go out the box but we'll see.


----------



## OHNOIMONFIRE (Sep 13, 2012)

Attached are the sides of the end table I'm working on. All pieces attached with dowels.

I used 1/4" dowels.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

msbeal said:


> Thanks Dave. I'll practice some more and, if need be, I'll try sanding the dowells down a bit. I'm using these pre-compressed guys that already have grooves in them so they should be ready to go out the box but we'll see.


I also use the pre-compressed dowels with grooves. They are frequently tight. I do not have to sand a lot, but I typically have to sand so I can hand fit the dowels. Worth the effort for each of assembly.

I had looked at the Jess-em jig. Looks like it would be useful, I just did not want to spend the money. I can understand your comment about paying attention to the measurements with this jig.


----------



## mengtian (Nov 8, 2012)

I bought the deluxe doweling jig from Woodcraft and used it yesterday. It did everything I wanted. Joints lined up. I want to start using M&T joints but doweling seemed easier to start with. I want to make plantation shutters and am going to use that for the rails and stiles.


----------



## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

mengtian said:


> I bought the deluxe doweling jig from Woodcraft and used it yesterday. It did everything I wanted. Joints lined up. I want to start using M&T joints but doweling seemed easier to start with. I want to make plantation shutters and am going to use that for the rails and stiles.


I love M&T joints. They are very strong.

For the plantation shutters, I think dowels will be easier. This should not need the strength of a M&T joint, since it only needs to hold up its own weight.


----------



## Bagman8 (Jun 16, 2013)

Some great tips here.
I like working with 1/2" material.
I have used the self center jig (works in combination with dowel centers), Veritas Doweling Jig (hardest to use), JessEm 08350 Doweling Jig (good but heavy), DowelMax (great on 3/4" material but not 1/2" and to expensive), Rockler 1/4" Doweling Jig (good, the cheapest but hard to make jigs with since screw holes do not go all the way thru) and, my favorite, Joint-Genie Professional.
I am 70 and have the shakes (I'm afraid of my wife of 47 yrs ) so I need to use jigs a lot.
The Joint-Genie is the easiest to use and to make jigs. I receive my 2nd one yesterday so I can leave my favorite jig fixed.


----------



## reynoldston (Sep 13, 2013)

I am a complete amateur when it comes to wood working. I just never mastered the skill with dowel pins to make a good joint. I have a number of dowel jigs that I have tried but really never mastered the skill of making a good tight and straight fit. I have the feeling its because I buy cheap jigs. So what I have done is bought two different size biscuit jointers and have had very good luck with them. Another tool I also use with good luck is the pocket hole jig and screws when making smaller joints and or only one side shows.


----------



## Noek (Jan 26, 2013)

Purchased Dowelmax and was surprised at how well put together it was. I didn't read the instructions, just watched a few youtube videos and couldn't wait to try it out. My first attempt was joining the face of two pieces which didn't come out aligned very well because I reversed the jig on the wood, which I realized immediately. The best part of screwing that up was realizing that although I screwed up the alignment, I can move the jig over a few inches and re drill some new ones with no repercussions. I definitely love this jig.

Now that I have dowels out of the way I can concentrate on learning hand cut dovetails and who knows, maybe m&t later on.


----------



## eznaz (Nov 18, 2012)

I have a Stanley #59 doweling jig that I purchased in 1974. I have drilled thousands of holes in hundreds of face frames and still get great results with it. a little practice to get the feel of your tool and your technique down and you will get the result you desire.


----------



## msbeal (Oct 3, 2010)

*Dowels*

I didn't see it mentioned here so I apologize if I repeat. 

A nice finishing touch for dowels is, while the glue is still wet, to sand over the dowels a bit to have the dust fill small gaps.


----------

