# Can I make Poplar look like Walnut?



## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm a huge fan of Charles Neil and his DVD series "Finishing A to Z." In the video he comments that big furniture companies use nasty wood with good finishing techniques to make beautiful pieces. Two examples he gives are "Poplar makes gorgeous walnut, and most of the cherry you see is maple."

Here in Kansas, Walnut is about $15bdft, where as poplar is about $3 or so; if I really can make poplar look like walnut, it sure would save me money (especially in scrap.)

Charles loves using water-based dyes, and throughout the series he uses General Finishes. General Finishes is not availible here (our closest Woodcraft store is in Kansas City). The only thing I can find is Minwax water-based dyes mixed by Sherwin Williams... and I hate Minwax oil stains and dyes. Are the water-based dyes any good or should I stay away from them too?

Also, say I put down a yellow water-based dye as a base. Any color I put on top that's oil-based either muds up or won't stick to the water. Gel stain does okay over top of water-based, but I'm still not quite getting the color I want. If I start with a water-based dye, should I continue coloring with dyes only? 

In case the last paragraph makes no sense, I'm trying to use multiple stains/dye to tone the wood. What's the best way to do this.

As always, I appreciate any and all help.

Bobby


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## Treeoflifestairs.com (Jan 9, 2012)

It can be done but I don't think it's an easy task. Part of what makes poplar a paint grade wood is the variation of colors you find in it. Once you get the stain looking good in the lighter sections what do you do where it is more green, purple, or black?


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## Roger Newby (May 26, 2009)

Get over to Kansas Hardwoods in Belvue KS on Hwy 24, west of Topeka, I think you'll find walnut for way less than 15 bucks.


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## Bonka (Mar 24, 2011)

*Poplar*

I made poplar look like aged cherry using General Finishes WB dyes. I mixed the cherry dye with green until I got the right amount of red out of the cherry.
I used Charles Neil's blotch control product and it works fantasic. I had no trouble with the green in the wood the product takes care of that. If poplar is left out in the sun the green turns brown anyway.
Use some scraps and give it a whirl.


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

Treeoflifestairs.com said:


> It can be done but I don't think it's an easy task. Part of what makes poplar a paint grade wood is the variation of colors you find in it. Once you get the stain looking good in the lighter sections what do you do where it is more green, purple, or black?


You're right, a big problem is trying to get the background color the same. Using a yellow dye as a base does that. But like I said, putting an oil based stain on top of a water based dye (especially the thin garbage from the box stores) just makes it look terrible.



Roger Newby said:


> Get over to Kansas Hardwoods in Belvue KS on Hwy 24, west of Topeka, I think you'll find walnut for way less than 15 bucks.


Unfortunately, I'm in Newton, about 30mi north of Wichita. Belvue is still 2 and 1/2hrs away. 



Bonka said:


> I made poplar look like aged cherry using General Finishes WB dyes. I mixed the cherry dye with green until I got the right amount of red out of the cherry.


How did you ever discover this? I'd have never thought of using green, but glad you said something. 

I haven't ordered Charles' blotch control yet. I've been having pretty good results using about a 1/2lb cut of Shellac as a spit coat.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm not sure you'll fool anyone who knows much about wood.

It's more likely you'll get sort of close and decide to live with it.

$15 for walnut sounds high. I'll bet there is a rural mill around somewhere. It might be worth a day trip.


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

ed_h said:


> I'm not sure you'll fool anyone who knows much about wood.
> 
> It's more likely you'll get sort of close and decide to live with it.
> 
> $15 for walnut sounds high. I'll bet there is a rural mill around somewhere. It might be worth a day trip.


Not trying to fool anybody... Just wanting to know if I can or not.


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## Bonka (Mar 24, 2011)

*Dye Color*

Using green in red produces brown. I did not do this by myself. I have a color wheel and used it.


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## StoneH (Aug 24, 2012)

I would probably go to a professional paint store if there is one in your area. They can custom mix colors, or recommend something they have in stock.

Otherwise you can get stains from the box stores and experiment until you get the look you want. It’s ok to mix colors together to tweak it, just use the same type stain, preferably the same brand. You can also get a better look by staining, sealing, sanding, and then putting a glaze over that. It may require some experimentation before you get the color of the imitator exactly right.

Might have been easier to build it out of walnut huh?


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## Midlandbob (Sep 5, 2011)

I read that you hate Minwax. 
I use mixtures of their walnut, red mahogany and maple(yellowish). I can usually match any colour. The walnut is a bit too blue so a bit of the red mahogany makes it work. 
Poplar can be anything from white to green so each batch or board can need a different mix.
The aniline dyes from lee valley work well and don't muddy the project. Again their brown(walnut) and some red and yellow can be blended.
All the oil bases colours are ground up earth pigments so they are opaque by definition. They highlight and porous features whereas the dyes don't.
Minor tinting can be done on the top coats with a bit of pigmented "stain" in the finish. This is a "glaze".
Avoiding staining is the best option if possible. It's a lot of work getting a good even correct colour.
Bob


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Furniture companies have been using poplar as a secondary wood with walnut in their furniture for years. They generally use poplar mostly on turned legs and moldings where the detail breaks up the grain appearance so you don't see so much difference. On large areas they normally cover the poplar with walnut veneer because there is a genuine difference in the grain. Then poplar runs from white to green to black so you would have to be very selective in picking out wood with consistent grain and color to use for furniture. If it were me looking for an alternative to walnut I would use alder. Alder while being better known as a substitute for cherry if stained with walnut stain will come closer to the appearance of walnut than poplar. Its a little more expensive than poplar but I think it is more stable and a better wood. I've had more problems with poplar shrinking and warping than I ever have with alder.


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## sailorman (Aug 9, 2010)

I read an article in Woodsmith Magazine re: finishing poplar for use as a primary wood. They used Old Masters Gel stains, which cover the grain color variations. 

I built the pictured CD cabinet from New Yankee Workshop plans, finished with Old Masters Cherry Gel stain, with a bit of Deep Red mixed in (tested on scrap until I got the color I wanted). I was very pleased with the results.

I have not tried this with walnut stains, but assume the same technique would work.

The stains are available at The Paint Store http://www.thepaintstore.com/Old_Ma...New+Brands+2&gclid=CJ_Gte74grICFcHe4AodJioAng


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

Go here for instructions on making poplar look like walnut: http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.co...e/tabid/75/ArticleId/11/Poplar-to-Cherry.aspx


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

StoneH said:


> Might have been easier to build it out of walnut huh?


Ha! Fortunately I haven't even BEGUN building yet, nor will I before I can make sure it can be done!



> I read that you hate Minwax.
> I use mixtures of their walnut, red mahogany and maple(yellowish). I can usually match any colour. The walnut is a bit too blue so a bit of the red mahogany makes it work.
> Poplar can be anything from white to green so each batch or board can need a different mix.
> The aniline dyes from lee valley work well and don't muddy the project. Again their brown(walnut) and some red and yellow can be blended.
> ...


Minwax is just too "watered down." I was using a bunch of Minwax to begin with, but then tried using Varithane and some Mohawk... beat the snot out of the Minwax in side-by-sides on red oak.

I agree avoiding staining is the best option, but typically the wood alone is never quite what I wanted. I made a walnut/maple chess board, and it looked even better with a coat of Amber Shellac.

Steve, sailorman, and Howard, your responses are very much appreciated!


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## sailorman (Aug 9, 2010)

Note that I had poor results with Minwax Gel Stain. May be OK for other purposes, but did not produce the results I got with Old Masters. I've used other Minwax products successfully, but not in this instance.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Masterofnone said:


> I'm a huge fan of Charles Neil and his DVD series "Finishing A to Z." In the video he comments that big furniture companies use nasty wood with good finishing techniques to make beautiful pieces. Two examples he gives are "Poplar makes gorgeous walnut, and most of the cherry you see is maple."
> 
> Here in Kansas, Walnut is about $15bdft, where as poplar is about $3 or so; if I really can make poplar look like walnut, it sure would save me money (especially in scrap.)
> 
> ...


You can order walnut online and have it shipped for less than half of what you have been quoted.

See www.walllumber.com

George


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## Masterofnone (Aug 24, 2010)

Guys, I appreciate the help with finding walnut... but I should specify that's not the point of this thread. 

Part of the reason I want to do this is, yes, walnut is expensive. But the other reason is learning to be a finisher that is good enough to make something ugly into something beautiful.



sailorman said:


> I read an article in Woodsmith Magazine re: finishing poplar for use as a primary wood. They used Old Masters Gel stains, which cover the grain color variations.
> 
> I built the pictured CD cabinet from New Yankee Workshop plans, finished with Old Masters Cherry Gel stain, with a bit of Deep Red mixed in (tested on scrap until I got the color I wanted). I was very pleased with the results.
> 
> ...


See this CD case? THAT is beautiful. Thats is what I'm going for, to make anything look beautiful.

Also remember that Walnut gets lighter as it ages. It would never stay the way I made it anyway.


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