# New HF DC Score



## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

Well HF has their 2HP DC on sale for 199.99 this month and the wife scored me a few 25% coupons for a purchase price of 149.99. :thumbsup: 

Setup as everyone says is pretty easy, takes about 1.5-2 hours and the 'instructions' are only a guide. Its obvious that the DC has been updated at some point and they didn't update the instruction. Still its fairly quick, simple and painless to setup. The new bolts still contain the Allen keys for some reason however they are not used. You'll need a couple SAE wrenches and perhaps an adjustable as well as a Phillips screwdriver. Additionally, I used a drop of blue Loctite on each bolt though this is something I do with most everything that has any vibration.

I want to add a Thien separator and a Wynn 35A100SBOL spun bond washable filter very soon. I already have a 20G metal can for the separator so just need to buy the ports and hardware and make a MDF top for it. Dust for me is an important issue being in a basement workshop and wish to contain as much as I can. I've also started on a new 2nd workbench which will house an enclosed down draft dust table for sanding and the like.

One question.. Should the DC be on its own dedicated 20Amp circuit?

Thanks


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Yes....you'll find that dust collectors have huge starting draws. A dedicated 20 amp circuit would be a very good idea.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks ryan. I figured as much. I need to start expanding my power and circuits as I'm currently only on a single 20amp circuit though at most it was my tablesaw and a shop vac running at once (lights are on a different circuit). I'm now looking at adding 2 new 20 amp circuits for additional wall plugs with 15amp receptacles, 1 dedicated 20amp for the DC, as well as a new dedicated 240V 20amp circuit for the tablesaw.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Adrenolin said:


> Thanks ryan. I figured as much. I need to start expanding my power and circuits as I'm currently only on a single 20amp circuit though at most it was my tablesaw and a shop vac running at once (lights are on a different circuit). I'm now looking at adding 2 new 20 amp circuits for additional wall plugs with 15amp receptacles, 1 dedicated 20amp for the DC, as well as a new dedicated 240V 20amp circuit for the tablesaw.


add a second 240v, 20A circuit while you're at it. the incremental cost should be negligible and 240v tools draw fewer amps from your electrical service, providing more capacity for other tools.

also, consider adding a thien baffle to the drum ring of the DC. it sends more debris to the collector bag, keeping the filter cleaner longer providing for greater suction over a longer period of time. the separator can then be used primarily for heavy chip producers, like jointers and planers. selective use of a pre separator eliminates the cfm hit caused by a pre separator. here's what i did it to a delta 50-850. total cost was <$10:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40189


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I presume the motor is 20 Amp @ 120V.

If a 20Amp breaker trips it will be due to motor starting current. If so you need a 30Amp breaker which means bigger wire.

If this will start on a 20Amp 120V circuit, dedicated circuit is best. If other loads connected, I would not want any other of the loads to operate while the DC is running. 

I have some circuits with two machines, but I can only use 1 at a time.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

A decated 20 amp circuit is almost a necessity with that dust collector. I have one and the starting current is about all a 20 amp breaker can handle, after start up it draws 14 or 15 amps.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

Toolguy.. Your right about the second 240v 20amp circuit. Might be handy to have down the road. Good idea on the internal baffle in the DC. Something I'll read further on.
Question.. Does the size of the separator can affect the CFM and the hit it takes? IE.. Does having a larger or smaller can size decrease the hit. Of course I know having it as air tight the better.

Dave.. Specs say that it draws a full 20amp on start, which I believe! I plugged it into a 15amp circuit and it popped in about 3 seconds. Plugged it into a 20amp circuit and it fired right up. I know 'code' says a circuit shouldn't be run at over 80% though I think that was related to over a time period and wasn't for initial short startup draws. It's a hobby and not something that's going to be used everyday. 
Question.. Since I'm going to run a dedicated circuit just for the DC perhaps running a 30amp circuit would be easier on the DC? Would it allow for less heat generated and a faster startup? 10g wire good for 30amp? Or should I simply run it as a 20amp since its dedicated and not an everyday professional shop?

TVman.. Your correct on the initial draw pulling a full 20amp. This is why I considering making it a 30amp circuit instead. The run would require about 35' of wire.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

Adrenolin said:


> Dave.. Specs say that it draws a full 20amp on start, which I believe! I plugged it into a 15amp circuit and it popped in about 3 seconds. Plugged it into a 20amp circuit and it fired right up. I know 'code' says a circuit shouldn't be run at over 80% though I think that was related to over a time period and wasn't for initial short startup draws. It's a hobby and not something that's going to be used everyday.
> Question.. Since I'm going to run a dedicated circuit just for the DC perhaps running a 30amp circuit would be easier on the DC? Would it allow for less heat generated and a faster startup? 10g wire good for 30amp? Or should I simply run it as a 20amp since its dedicated and not an everyday professional shop?


If the motor starts up easily on the 20Amp circuit I would give that a try.

On another thread in this forum about DC load I posted some measurements of load on my DC.

I have a Jet Cannister with a nominal 1 1/2HP motor. Nameplate states 11 amp at full load.

Load with all blast gates closed = 4.03 amp
Load with closest blast gate open = 6.75 amp
Load with first + next further blast gate open = 7.15 amp
Load with first two + furthest blast gate open = 7.35 amp

This shows my duct work/fittings is constraining the airflow and load.

I expect you will also be constrained by the ductwork and likely not going to pull full load after startup. The 20Amp circuit should be fine with normal operation.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

Some interesting numbers there. My plan is to use a 4" Dust Right 4' compressed hose from Rockler that expands to 28' for my larger stationary tools. It'll also run over to my bench to a 2 1/2 port for use where smaller hand power tools and a down draft sanding booth will be located.

For my use I think this will workout fine.. aside from the occasional grumble about dragging it from tool to tool.  I don't think I need to plumb up PVC runs everywhere in my small basement shop. Maybe someday but for I'll go this route.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

I can appreciate the benefit for you using the flex hose.

FYI, it will constrain your airflow more than straight PVC pipe. Flex hose has a lot more pressure drop than straight pipe. More pressure drop, less airflow.

I only mention in case you feel you are not getting sufficient suction/flow at the machines. The flex hose may be the problem.

I have recently been on a crusade to reduce my pressure drop.

I removed the "Y" at the blower and made a plywood donut to fit over the blower and inside sized for the 4in fitting.

I removed the blower, mounted to the wall to avoid an elbow going into the blower, and then a straight run from the blower to the DC. Same flex hose as provided by the manufacturer, just now straight line.

I removed two "Y" in the ducting, replaced short radius 90 deg elbows with long radius elbows, shortened my flex hose at the machines and replaced with straight pipe where practical.

I ended up with a big improvement in airflow. I can feel the difference, hear the difference, but I do not have an airflow meter so cannot state before and after flow.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

My delta version draws 80 amps for a split second on startup. I ended up switching it over to 240 just to cut the amperage in half. Now on 240 it only draws 7 amps while running full out.


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## tvman44 (Dec 8, 2011)

Main advantage to a 30 amp circuit is it will be less likely to trip breaker on start up. Voltage drop on a 30 amp line #10 wire is a little less voltage drop versus 20 amp line #12.


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## RogerInColorado (Jan 16, 2013)

I have my HF 2HP on a non-dedicated 20 amp circuit. I also have a volt-ammeter constantly monitoring those parameters for a variety of reasons. Instantaneous current hits about 70 amps and falls to less than 12 amps in less than one second. None of my breakers are delay action (fuses were called slo-blo) breakers, and I have never had a breaker trip. If your collector trips a 20 amp breaker, then you should swap it out to a delayed action breaker of the same amperage. Before I modified my collector to a 12 inch impeller, the maximum it pulled was 10.5 amps. It is not a 2 HP collector, in spite of what the ads say. On that same circuit, I run my collector with my jointer or my planer or my drum sander or my bandsaw. Have never tripped the breaker.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I added a 120v 20amp circuit for the DC and run a temporary wire and its been fine without tripping the breaker. I even plugged in my shop radio, a T4 4 tube light fixture, and a small fan into the circuit to give a small test. When the DC is turned on the lights dimmed very slightly for about 1.5 seconds but that's it. I've since removed the light, radio and fan and its working with no issues.

My basement is unfinished hence the temp wire run for testing. I'm getting ready to frame up 1/2 the basement for my shop, furnace room and small insulated storage room where the DC will be located for some noise reduction as its very loud. It'll never see a lot of consistent use so I'm not worried of it over heating.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

You might consider making that circuit switched with the switch located near your work area. It makes it much easier to flip it on and off, and it's a lot cheaper than a remote for the unit. If you do, make sure it's a motor rated switch and not an el cheapie 50 cent switch. I think I paid 6 or 7 bucks at Home Depot for an American made, motor rated switch.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Adrenolin said:


> Toolguy.. Your right about the second 240v 20amp circuit. Might be handy to have down the road. Good idea on the internal baffle in the DC. Something I'll read further on.
> Question.. Does the size of the separator can affect the CFM and the hit it takes? IE.. Does having a larger or smaller can size decrease the hit. Of course I know having it as air tight the better.
> 
> i believe that it's irrelevant. but this site will lead you to all the info you might want on DIY separators, the top hat configuration of which roughly approximate a cyclone dust collector:
> ...


as far as activating your DC, i prefer these products:

http://www.ivacswitch.com/index.action

they offer both wired and wireless versions. i enjoy having the DC activate automatically when the tool to which it is connected is activated, and the reverse on tool shut down. i even daisy chained two of the basic ivacs together so that both my DC and shop vac are activated when a saw dust generating tool is activated:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

The only problem with that.....is that it shuts off when the saw turns off......I like leaving the dust collector on a bit longer to catch residual dust. 

And it looks expensive.....how much were those?


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

I've looked into a few of the remote systems and for now will simply use a switch on the circuit. My shop isn't that large so its not a big deal to walk over and hit the wall switch. I do have to agree with Ryan though on having the DC run for awhile after the equipment turns off.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

You willo better to run the largest duct possible with that collector. Which should be 5" or 6" then reduce down by the machine. Smooth pipe either PVC or metal works better then the flex hose. Larger ducts increase efficiency.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> The only problem with that.....is that it shuts off when the saw turns off......I like leaving the dust collector on a bit longer to catch residual dust.
> 
> And it looks expensive.....how much were those?





Adrenolin said:


> I've looked into a few of the remote systems and for now will simply use a switch on the circuit. My shop isn't that large so its not a big deal to walk over and hit the wall switch. I do have to agree with Ryan though on having the DC run for awhile after the equipment turns off.


the ivacs i use (pictured) are preset for 10 seconds of operation following tool shut down to clear residual dust. the ivac pro wireless units are, i believe, programmable for variable post tool shut down operation times. i think prices are availble on their web site. and they have been a first class group to deal with, providing the kind of customer support that other companies only aspire to but seldom achieve.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

rrbrown said:


> You willo better to run the largest duct possible with that collector. Which should be 5" or 6" then reduce down by the machine. Smooth pipe either PVC or metal works better then the flex hose. Larger ducts increase efficiency.


Yes I know this but lets keep some perspective here. :smile: I'm one guy using one machine at a time in a hobby basement workshop and attempting to keep a light budget. I have a table saw with router extension, a floor standing drill press, a spindle sander, a dedicated sanding station and a work bench. Yes, I'm looking at a jointer and some other tools down the road but for now I'm sure the DC and a flex hose will work fine. I see no reason to spend the bucks running solid duct with blast gates, joints, reducers, etc at this point. Once I add more to my shop and get things in their area, which I'm sure will require current items to be moved, I might look at going with a solid duct setup.

For now I can order a 4' expandable flex hose to 28' for about 80$ and simply plug it into each tool, station, machine, etc as needed. They also have a 3' to 21'. I'm going to remeasure my floor space and if the 21'er works I'll get that to keep it as short as possible.



toolguy1000 said:


> the ivacs i use (pictured) are preset for 10 seconds of operation following tool shut down to clear residual dust. the ivac pro wireless units are, i believe, programmable for variable post tool shut down operation times. i think prices are availble on their web site. and they have been a first class group to deal with, providing the kind of customer support that other companies only aspire to but seldom achieve.


Something I'll keep in mind. Granted I haven't looked at the costs but know that a simple wall switch will be a cheaper choice for now and not a big deal for me to use. Thanks.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

If you do the wall switch, which I recommend, make sure it's motor rated one.


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## Adrenolin (Mar 12, 2012)

ryan50hrl said:


> If you do the wall switch, which I recommend, make sure it's motor rated one.


Yes thanks. :thumbsup:


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