# Sharpening



## mlewis (Dec 9, 2011)

OK, I know this topic has been touched on a ton. I just spent 1 hour reading old discusions. So insted of reading every thread to find the answer to my question, I'll just ask this question for the hundredth time. I'm just getting started with sharpening. I'll probably use water stones or arkansas stones. What are the essential grits or stones I need to get started? Most of my chisels are in ok shape. No need to grind, yet. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

I use waterstones in the following grits: 1000,4000,6000,8000. You will need another stone to flatten those waterstones. I use sandpaper on a granite slab to get the part ready for the waterstones. I use all the grits through 400 before I move to the waterstones.


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## mlewis (Dec 9, 2011)

I've tried experimenting with sandpaper with mixed results. If definately seemed to work, but I was flying through sheets of sandpaper. It seemed like the cost would add up pretty quickly. I think I was using 3M paper. The cost is what got me thinking of switching to stones. What type of sandpaper do you use?


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I use wet/dry automotive finish paper. 180, 240, 400, 600, and 1200. After sharpening the first time, I resharpen by honing with the 600 and 1200. Your correct that paper is not your most cost effective system, it is just the cheapest up front!!


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## mlewis (Dec 9, 2011)

What grit would you use if you had a chiped bevel for instance. I had a few beat up chisels like this. I was starting at 100. It took about 4 to 5 sheets to get rid of the chip.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mlewis said:


> What grit would you use if you had a chiped bevel for instance. I had a few beat up chisels like this. I was starting at 100. It took about 4 to 5 sheets to get rid of the chip.


Do you have a belt sander? Are you using wet paper with a lubricant? 

For damaged or incorrect bevels I start with 150 on a stand belt sander (with care and frequent cooling) then over to the bench where I have most wet sand grits from 120 to 2500. I have tried many different lubricants and have settled into using simple green cut to about 80% water. It works very well as a lubricant.

Paper will lose it's effectiveness quickly without lube because it "fills." Lube helps float the particles out and away from the paper making it last much longer.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

mlewis said:


> What grit would you use if you had a chiped bevel for instance. I had a few beat up chisels like this. I was starting at 100. It took about 4 to 5 sheets to get rid of the chip.


I use 80 grit on my belt sander.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

How sharp do you want the chisels? Done right you can get them razor sharp with Arkansas stones. I would never put a chisel on a belt sander. The chisels should be hollow ground. Always keep the stones in water. Stones get impacted with the metal from normal use and keeping them in water will rust away the debris and renew them. The stones you would need would be a soft or coarse stone , a medium stone, a fine stone and a extra fine or hard stone. You will also need a piece of leather about 2" wide and about a foot long. The leather should be stretched over a piece of wood and loaded down with jewelers rouge. After a chisel is freshly ground it will have burs on the edge. With water start with the coarse stone and rub the chisel keeping firm pressure between the point and the heal of the chisel. After a minute or two turn the chisel over and rub the face of it on the stone. You alternate back and forth until a somewhat polished edge starts to appear on the point. Then go to the medium stone and do the same. Work it until you don't see any steel fibers sticking out from the point. Then go the fine stone and work it for a couple of minutes. When you think this step is done lightly rub the point of the chisel against the edge of your finger nail. If you feel any roughness it's not ready yet. When you get the point polished to where you can rub it against the end of your finger nail and it feels smooth then go to the hard black stone. Work it for a few minutes until the point starts to look like chrome. Then strop the chisel on the leather board on both sides with water for a couple of minutes and it should be razor sharp.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

:laughing:

Why do you say it should be hollow ground and then describe a flat grind? 

There's nothing wrong with using a belt sander. I don't do it to hone a chisel... That's for damaged or banged up bevels. Work smarter -

Ya think the poor guy in a chisel factory is going from a piece of tool steel to a chisel with a couple stones??? :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Why do you say it should be hollow ground and then describe a flat grind?
> 
> ...


I didn't say anything about a flat grind. I take a new from the store chisel and first hollow grind it and then hone it to sharp. There's nothing wrong with sharpening a chisel with a sander but if you ever use a properly sharpened chisel you would give up the sander. The difference is night and day.

I'm having difficulty getting a decent picture of the edge of a chisel but the photo shows how the sharpening process polishes the edge to sharpness. By hollow grinding the chisel it's easier to keep the point of the chisel flat on the stone and the chisel cuts better hollow ground. Grinding or sanding a chisel creates burs on the edge of a chisel and honing polishes them off making the chisel razor sharp.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Well crap... haha I just got home but if we gonna show n tell I guess I have to go back to the shop. Stand-by.



Edit
-------
I'M BACK!
Pictures are worth a thousand words... right? 

So do I need to comment further? Despite becoming accustomed to your desire to argue everything I'll explain why hollow grinding is a poor choice after I spend some time with my family.

Take care,


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

firemedic said:


> Well crap... haha I just got home but if we gonna show n tell I guess I have to go back to the shop. Stand-by.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well first of all I have no desire to argue with anyone. It's a open forum and I thought we were just having a friendly discussion. If I've upset you I apologize. I wish to be friends with everyone.


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## Rwelch (Mar 11, 2012)

Does I really matter? I have sharpened with a tormek, oil and water stones, sandpaper, and diamond paste. I was able to get a fine edge with all of them. I prefer the tormek for restoring a plane and a leather strop for holding an edge thereafter. I don't really enjoy sharpening so I hone often.


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## mlewis (Dec 9, 2011)

I don't have a grinding wheel. I do have a hand held belt sander, but you're refering to a stationary machine I guess. What if i try using one of those jigs to hold the chisel at a constant angle and get the automotive sand paper you spoke of. Maybe start at 80 or 100 grit. After what grit would I go to a soft stone, or if I worked though higher grits of sand paper, when would I go to a harder stone. Is having a grinder one of those must have tools. I do have axes, lawn mower blades, etc I would like to sharper too. Is a stationary belt sander a better investment? Thanks again for everyones imput.


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## Rwelch (Mar 11, 2012)

mlewis said:


> I don't have a grinding wheel. I do have a hand held belt sander, but you're refering to a stationary machine I guess. What if i try using one of those jigs to hold the chisel at a constant angle and get the automotive sand paper you spoke of. Maybe start at 80 or 100 grit. After what grit would I go to a soft stone, or if I worked though higher grits of sand paper, when would I go to a harder stone. Is having a grinder one of those must have tools. I do have axes, lawn mower blades, etc I would like to sharper too. Is a stationary belt sander a better investment? Thanks again for everyones imput.


I have a grinder and never use it. I have a combo belt/disc sander and use it all the time. You can absolutely use a jig an Sand paper glued to a flat piece of glass or granite (mdf will wok in a pinch). Just proceed through progressively finer grits till you get the edge you are looking for. Typically you would transition to a soft stone at around 600 and the hard stone thereafter.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mlewis said:


> I don't have a grinding wheel. I do have a hand held belt sander, but you're refering to a stationary machine I guess. What if i try using one of those jigs to hold the chisel at a constant angle and get the automotive sand paper you spoke of. Maybe start at 80 or 100 grit. After what grit would I go to a soft stone, or if I worked though higher grits of sand paper, when would I go to a harder stone. Is having a grinder one of those must have tools. I do have axes, lawn mower blades, etc I would like to sharper too. Is a stationary belt sander a better investment? Thanks again for everyones imput.


I haven't used stones in years and never had very good ones so I can't really comment on crossing back and forth.

The reason I like a belt sander is because I buy quite a few vintage tools - vintage usually means they have been through the ringer and the bevels need to be reground. 

A belt sander is the quickest and easiest way that I know of to do this. I then switch to 400x then 600x for the primary bevel. I then grind the micro bevel at 1,000x and then 2,500x. The back is also polished down to 2,500x.

I usually use a cheap guide on the belt sander to set the primary bevel and then free hand the rest.

Hollow grinding is fine for paring chisels. The reason I suggest not hollow grinding is because it results in a weaker bevel. My mortice chisels take a real beating, with a hollow grind the bevel would likely snap off. Hollow grinding leaves a concave bevel meaning less meat and also meaning additional forces are transferred to the back of the chisel. Not a problem for low impact / low stress edges but I don't trust it for anything struck with a mallet. 

I get anywhere from six to a dozen chisels / plane irons from each sheet of paper.

Hope that helps


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## Fastback (Sep 2, 2012)

Hmm, it seems that sharpening is a very sensitive subject. It may be wrong but this is how I sharpen. I have a slow speed Delta grinder. It has one vertical stone and a fine horizontal for honing. I don't like using the large wet honing stone. I use the small vertical stone for the hollow grinding and then use a hard stone to place a secondary bevel. I have an old Stanley guide with rollers that attaches to the chisels. I am happy with the way the chisels cut. So I guess that is all that counts. Just another opinion.

I use the same sharpener to do my jointer blades with the exception of putting the secondary bevel. I just hand stone lightly to get the curl of the back.


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Show and tell is great. This is a plane iron not a chisel, but it has a nice shiny triple bevel and it makes nice, wispy cuts. It was done using sand paper on granite (grits 80 thru 600, then waterstones (grits 1000 thru 8000. I like water stones a lot once the primary bevel has been ground. (I think it was easier to grind those bevels than it was to get a halfway decent picture to put up here.)


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## mlewis (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks for the imput. I guess everyone has their own way to sharpen. I'm a newbie, and I want to get started sharpening as cheaply as possible. Stones are so expensive, but I guess theirs no way around buying some. What grits are the most important. I'll start with sand paper like you and others have suggested, then go the stones after that. Thanks again for the help.


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## james23 (Nov 13, 2012)

For sharping chisels, you can do with hand or with jig. It can also done with oilstones, waterstones, and with diamond stones. You can use a strop at the end. My instruction will demonstrate the use of water-stones and a honing guide, and will get your chisel sharpened to 8000 grit with a micro beveled edge.But you need Sharpening Stones, Nagura Stone and some guide.


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