# Bugs



## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

I read or heard somewhere that the tempertures kilns are run at are required to kill the bugs in woods. My first question is: what about dehumidification kilns or solar kilns? Do they run hot enough to kill the critters? I'm not ready to build one yet nor do I have the BF to require one, but currently I'm cutting bowl blanks from ash that has worm/beetle holes visible once a cross section is cut. #2 For curiosity sake, are these from miller worms or powder post beatle. The tracks are approx 3/16" wide x 1/2" long and filled with powder. It's been a while since I've played with ash, but what I remember is that the beetle holes were smaller in dia. like that of a pencil point, and the miller worms were always present when you cut open a log.
#3 Can a steam chamber be set up to put a half dozen or so blanks in and held at temp of 150F or higher for a period of time (guesing 1-2 hrs) to kill whatever bugs they are? Or are longer (days/weeks) required to do this. Being a moist heat I wouldn't think any craking would occur. I just don't what to get a project done with a finish only to have a bug hole pop through later.

Thanks for your help.


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

In no particular order, here are a couple links to help ID the bugs. The second link walks you through the id.

http://www.entomology.wisc.edu/insectid/wood-attk.php

http://www.upcrc.com/guides/wdamage/dwood.htm

Yes I think a steam chamber would work. The generally accepted time/temp is 130+ for 6 hours, but that could be shortened some with higher temps I am pretty sure since the "core temp" is reached faster.

A well designed/built solar or dehumidifier kiln will kill bugs. Solar is a high temp set up, which I don't like through the whole drying process (scared of wood damage, personal preference thing) I designed and run a d/h kiln and figured out how to kill the bugs after the wood is dry, lessening the chances of damage to the wet wood from extreme heat.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

The DH kiln is the way to go. I do however like solar kilns, but like Daren said they get too hot for too long, so it's necessary to incorporate a vent fan in the design operated by a thermostat. 

This solves the single problem inherent in a solar kiln. I guess you could say the length of time required to dry the wood is also an inherent problem and there's no way to design a solution for that. 

For those reasons the DH kiln is a much better option for you. In fact it's a much better option for most people that aren't sawing a lot of volume. I started my solar kiln but haven't finished it because the DH kiln I built from Daren's plans works so good that I will probably build another one just like it before I finish the solar kiln. 

I'll finish the solar kiln one day (God willing) and use it to dry the harder to dry, and lower grade woods and continue to use the DH for higher value species. Here is the kiln plans and they are worth every penny. Paid for themselves in oh, like the first day of the first charge.


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks guys,
I like the idea of a DH kiln over a solar too, mainly because you're not relying on the sun to be there all the time. I was originally going to build one (solar) just because of the free source of enery. But I have read posts and Daren's classified previously and know now that they're pretty inexpensive to run. I was just worried about what I thought was the lack of heat in a DH kiln to kill bugs, so I dismissed it originally. But Daren, if you say you have a way to deal with that at the end of the drying process, I believe you. No need to go into it now, as I consider it propietary to your kiln design. We'll cover that when I buy your plans and build one myself. For now, all I have to do is to "dis-insect" my blanks, so I'll stick with the steam. Unless of course someone has a better idea.

Thanks


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## Daren (Oct 14, 2006)

I have heard other ways to kill bugs. One discussion was put the blanks in a deep freeze at 0 for a couple weeks (in a bag probably). The people discussing it _claimed_ it worked (on another forum)...but if that was the case we would have no bugs in Illinois because it gets that kinda temp in the winter...so common sense tells me they would be extinct (unless the go south for the winter :laughing but maybe I am missing something since I have not tried it myself.

Then there are products like Timbor and BoraCare...but they are poisons so for turning-- eating the stuff while you work the material makes that not good.

Lastly, and I have done this...drown the suckers. I did not know if it would work and we talked about it on a forestry forum years ago (before this forum was born) I got a burled log that had laid too long and the powder post beetles had really moved in. I honestly thought I was going to just have to burn it, they where bad and I didn't want the critters in my stash. I lopped the burls off and filled a 55 gallon plastic drum with water and threw them in there. I used some chicken wire and bricks to keep them totally submerged. I just left them there for a couple weeks and when I pulled them out I put them some place I could watch them...no signs of life, killed em'. Powder post beetle are the hardest bug to kill, so if it got them I think it would kill other borers pretty easy. And water doesn't hurt wood either, bigger mills use "sawmill ponds" to keep the logs fresh and bug free.


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## TexasTimbers (Oct 17, 2006)

Bet you could also stick 'em in a vacuum bag and pull it to 29.9 inches of mercury for an hour or even less, and it would kill the suckers too. I think even cockroaches cannot survive in space. I wouldn't think eggs could survive that either(?). 

You could put together a small vacuum setup pretty cheap if you aren't trying to use is to dry wood. That is a little more elaborate, but just to pull a ***** or two of wood down to as near as 30 inches as you could get for a while, a used HVAC type pump, a 1 or 2 foot section of 12" or larger irrigation pipe (or a vacuum-worthy bag) with a cap glued on one end and a treaded male adapter to screw the "door" to and a fitting for hook your HVAC gauges to monitor your vacuum. 

Just another idea.


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

All good ideas. Maybe I'll do a 'scientific' study on the subject. Try each method on a couple of blanks. Put some bug infested scraps out in the garage by the wood furnace so they too will stay warm and see what happens. I'm not trying to turn anything in particular, I just want to have a bunch of blanks around to practice on. So if I loose a couple by one of the methods, then no great loss.

Thanks again


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