# Turning Bowls - Carbide vs HSS



## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I’m thinking about getting into bowl turning and trying to decide if I should get a HSS bowl gouge or a Hunter Hercules. 

I know most carbide tools are really just scrapers, but the Hercules looks like it really cuts and looks super easy to use. 

I know that sharp HSS tools work better than carbide scraping tools for spindle turning, but is it different when turning a bowl that’s mostly end grain?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Unless you do a lot of bowls I would stick with HSS. It's something you can sharpen yourself. With carbide you would have to keep extra tips so you could have something to use while you have tips off to the sharpening shop.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

Steve Neul said:


> Unless you do a lot of bowls I would stick with HSS. It's something you can sharpen yourself. With carbide you would have to keep extra tips so you could have something to use while you have tips off to the sharpening shop.


Do people sharpen those small carbide tips? I always assumed that they were intended by the manufacturers to be disposed and replaced, not sharpened? Am I wrong about that?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Yes, the inserts can be sharpened. You could do it yourself if you had a diamond wheel on a grinder to do it. I'm sure a sharpening service that can sharpen carbide router bits could do it.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

I don’t think the Hercules cutters are intended to be (or can be) sharpened. They’re cup shaped, not flat like the EZ-Wood turning tools. 

The cup shape is really why I was asking how they compare in cutting ease and cut compared to a HSS bowl gouge. 

Here’s a pic of the cutter.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Here’s the picture of the cutter.


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

I have a set of Easy wood turning tools, their inserts are flat and I sharpen them on a diamond "card" I just flip them over and put the top on the card and rub it back and forth until there is a smooth edge, only takes a couple minutes



But those inserts are designed to be a consumable, one shot use, but you get 4 sides that last much longer then HSS, but you can't get quite as good of an edge on carbide, but it is a minuscule amount of difference


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## Catpower (Jan 11, 2016)

I do like the way they have the edge beveled up so you can shear instead of scrape


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Tool Agnostic said:


> Do people sharpen those small carbide tips? I always assumed that they were intended by the manufacturers to be disposed and replaced, not sharpened? Am I wrong about that?


You technically _*can*_ resharpen those inserts, but given the relatively low cost of the inserts theres no reason to. Your gut feeling is right, theyre meant to be used, abused and disposed. If you had a few different grits of diamond wheels and the time you could certainly resharpen them yourself, but again, is it worth it?


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks, I wouldn't expect to sharpen the cup cutter myself.

I was wondering if anybody has compared the cut quality of Hercules tools to HSS bowl gouges?


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

Quickstep said:


> Thanks, I wouldn't expect to sharpen the cup cutter myself.
> 
> I was wondering if anybody has compared the cut quality of Hercules tools to HSS bowl gouges?


If you watch John Lucas' videos he shows the Hunter carbide tools being used as shear cutters, and he gets as clean a cut from them as a conventional gouge. I haven't mastered that technique yet and tend to use them as scrapers.I own the big Hercules and the #2 bowl tool (Osprey?) and both do an excellent job but in my hands I get cleaner cuts with a gouge.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

John Lucas makes everything look easy! Although I lack his talent, it does look like it may be easier to master the Hunter Hercules than a conventional gouge. 

When you're using the Hercules and not holding it at an angle, but "riding the bevel" on the carbide, would you still consider that scraping?


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## Pineknot_86 (Feb 19, 2016)

I have a set of HSS tools from Harbor Freight. I got them when I started turning and wasn't really aware of what was out there in the world of turning. I do have a Rikon low speed grinder that is about two steps from the lathe. I can sharpen and be back to turning is fewer than two minutes. Carbide tools might be something to try when my ship comes in. But, with my luck, I'll probably be at the airport.
Me? I would go with HSS and a low speed grinder and the Wolverine setup. Got mine at Woodcraft. They have the grinders on sale sometimes.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Quickstep said:


> Thanks, I wouldn't expect to sharpen the cup cutter myself.
> 
> I was wondering if anybody has compared the cut quality of Hercules tools to HSS bowl gouges?


Carbide won't get as sharp as steel can, it's a limitation of the material. As far as the comparison goes though, it's a bit apples and oranges, just because the cutting mechanism is different. The carbide tools, by and large, are scrapers, and the gouges are meant to slice. Odds are, the HSS tools are going to give you a better finish just because of that


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## dmh (Sep 18, 2010)

Quickstep said:


> I’m thinking about getting into bowl turning and trying to decide if I should get a HSS bowl gouge or a Hunter Hercules.
> 
> I know most carbide tools are really just scrapers, but the Hercules looks like it really cuts and looks super easy to use.
> 
> I know that sharp HSS tools work better than carbide scraping tools for spindle turning, but is it different when turning a bowl that’s mostly end grain?


It's been a while since I've turned anything but... 

I have a couple of carbide tools. I didn't get the same enjoyment out of using them as i did with trying to learn how to use regular cutting tools. (I started with a cheap HF set) And it seemed like after I used the tool with the cutting bit I was still reaching for one of my old trustworthy tools to finish what I was doing.

My opinion, you will eventually be working your way towards regular tools, just take the plunge.


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## Quickstep (Apr 10, 2012)

Holding wood on the lathe without marks or tenons. 

I was at a craft show and there was a turner there that had some bowls made of live edge burl caps where the live edge on the underside of the bowl was perfectly preserved. No tenon, no drive center mark, no live center mark, nuthin’. And by live edge, I mean the entire underside of the bowl was that knarly, prickly burl. 

I asked how he did that and he said he had a special drive to hold it. I didn’t think a vacuum chuck would hold a live edge girl, but I asked anyway and he said it wasn’t. I didn’t want to pry much more, but I remained curious. 

Any idea how this might have been done?


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

Quickstep said:


> John Lucas makes everything look easy! Although I lack his talent, it does look like it may be easier to master the Hunter Hercules than a conventional gouge.
> 
> When you're using the Hercules and not holding it at an angle, but "riding the bevel" on the carbide, would you still consider that scraping?


You can see the shavings coming off the work piece and the quality of the cut left behind. It's pretty obvious if you're shearing or scraping. Even a conventional gouge will be a scraper if you present it to the wood that way.


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