# Vintage equipment in the shop!



## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

My neighbor gave me a couple tools he acquired, but didn't want. No charge to me, at all! :thumbsup:

They're both Delta Milwaukee Homecraft brand. Best I can tell, they're from the late 1940's, to early 50's.
The scrollsaw is amazing and works like it just came out of the box, brand new. The motor isn't mounted securely, there's something missing, I'm not sure what it is, yet the machine still works perfectly.

I've begun to clean it up, so it's looking better today than it did when I took the photos.
If anybody knows what the motor is missing, please let me know. As you can see by the last photo, the motor housing isn't centered in the mounting bracket.
There's enough extra space there to lead me to think something is missing. The front "snoot" is missing the same piece.

Here's the scroll saw;













Here's the jointer. I plugged it in once, and it didn't seem too willing to spin. After some diddling with it, the motor will spin the machine, but it doesn't seem 'free'.
This one will take some exploratory surgery. 









I've always had a desire to own vintage equipment, as I firmly believe they are far superior to new. After a lifetime of owning new, off the shelf equipment that theory has concreted itself into my brain after much frustration. Too much junk out there.
So now that I have 'the bug' (thanks to my neighbor for the "free" equipment), I've been actively searching for the tool I've been wanting for many years....
A Radial Arm Saw.
I found one from a local guy for sale on Craigslist. The machine is a 65 year old DeWalt. He's asking $400. My gut tells me this is too high, and my brain knows it.
But... For this tool, with this level of quality, the price really isn't that unreasonable (IMHO). A brand new Craftsmen is $900, and you can imagine the amount of plastic and Chinese pot metal it's made from. The 65 year old DeWalt is cast iron. Craigslist of FULL of $200 "vintage" Craftsmen saws from the 80's, so that tells me something. 

I'm picking up the unit Saturday after work. I'll be posting photos of that as soon as I can.

Hope you enjoyed the photos!
Bob


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## djg (Dec 24, 2009)

If you are talking about the end of the motor in the mounting cradle, usually the hub at the end of the motor is the same as the inner diameter of the bracket that you tighten at the top. It looks like he just replaced the motor. If it were me, I would simply cut a circle out of 3/4" plywood (or wood) to match the diameter of the cradle and then drill a hole in the center to mate with the hub on the motor. A flat donut.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Regarding the dewalt radial arm saw, I have one from the 50's and its a beast. One thing though, make sure the carriage doesn't have play in it as the cast iron arm is machined to fit those bearings, and while unlikely, if the arm is worn it's a boat anchor. The bearings are replaceable, though a bit tough to find and pricey. 

Depending on the size of the radial arm saw, 400 could be in the ballpark. I paid under 200 for my 1030...a 8 or 9 inch should be 200 or less, I'd pay 300 for a 10 in good shape, a 12-16 inch, 400 is a good deal. Any link or pictures of the saw??


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

The motor in the bracket is missing the rubber grommet, I would do as djg suggested and silicone it in place.

What size Dewalt RAS, I had a 1957 5 hp 220v 16 inch that is still running like a champ today, they just don't die like the new ones today. I gave $1,500 for my saw back in 87 or 89.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.
I like the idea of a wooden spacer, I was thinking about that but wasn't sure if it was a legitimate "rig".

Here's the ad for the saw:
https://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/4896659149.html


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the replies.
> I like the idea of a wooden spacer, I was thinking about that but wasn't sure if it was a legitimate "rig".
> 
> Here's the ad for the saw:
> https://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/4896659149.html



It's a decent saw, but 400 is far too much for that saw. Honestly if you can't get it down to 250 or less Id keep looking.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

For example...missing a few knobs but less than half the price. I'd use this one as leverage. 

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/4871801673.html


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Ohhh..that is a better deal.
Not sure how I missed that one, thank you!

I gotta say though, I'd rather "hit the ground running" with a saw that I can calibrate and use. That one I have my doubts about. I do also like the fact the more expensive one looks nicer. I'm not into "woodworking jewelry", but it does count for something in my book. You've certainly given me good for thought and I'm rethinking my decision.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Ohhh..that is a better deal.
> Not sure how I missed that one, thank you!
> 
> I gotta say though, I'd rather "hit the ground running" with a saw that I can calibrate and use. That one I have my doubts about. I do also like the fact the more expensive one looks nicer. I'm not into "woodworking jewelry", but it does count for something in my book. You've certainly given me good for thought and I'm rethinking my decision.



Even if you point out to the guy with the 400 dollar saw, this ones going for 150...there's two on eBay that sold for 90 and a best offer below 285...

Have some data to show that 400 is too much.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

That's a good point. In his ad he's saying there are saws like his going for $2,500, so I think he smoke a little crack from time to time.
I contacted him on Tuesday and asked if he'd hold it for me until Saturday, which is the soonest I can get there. He was willing to hold it, not sell it, and all without a deposit, just a "virtual handshake" via email. So at this point I hate to start negotiating the price as it's already been established, ya know.


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

I'm starting to love the vintage tool thing. I've been fixing up a few lately, a Wen jigsaw, Craftsman circular saw, and going to start on a Powr Kraft 1/2" drill from Monkey Wards. Grand total: $0. All in running condition, and the two saws are my primary users. 

Deals on old RAS are cheap since people are afraid of them. If anything, show them the Seattle ads. Hard to find one for more than $150 around here.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

He probably doesn't understand the difference between a 9 inch saw, and a 16 inch saw. I've seen the huge 16 inch dewalts sell for 1500 or more. I'm guessing he went on eBay...searched dewalt radial arm saw, and found the most expensive one. 

A handshake is nice to hold something...but don't let that make you pay double what something's worth. I'd bet he hasn't had a single other call at 400.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Good point on both counts. 
All I need to do now is figure out how to word my request and suck up my sense of integrity. haha


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The motor "mount" ....*

There is a special mounting bushing made of rubber that is "gone" , MIA. I believe it is part of the motor, rather than the mount, and molded in place around the motor's end cap, I think ....?

like this:










The rubber gets old, dries up and disintegrates. You could form a ring from aluminum step flashing, as a mold then center the hub in the ring and fill it with silicone. I don't know if you can buy the rubber parts separately?

A call to this shop may answer you questions regarding a "resilient type motor mount".
http://www.royselectricmotor.com/identifyingmotors.html


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Ahhh, that's the ticket!
Thank you. I like your idea of silicone, that's pretty slick.
Or, Plasti-Dip might work too?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*depending on your degree of "cleverness"...*

You may find a container that is the same diameter as the cradle, measure the opposite side/remaining one from a plastic bottle, or a cap from a spray can...etc. That can serve as the mold if you drill a hole for the shaft. There is a silicone molding rubber rather than a sealant in a tube. I don't think Plastic Dip would work...too runny. 

All this would be IF you can't purchase the rubber parts separately. Some motors have a HEX shape on the end cap, others may be just round. I would still call an electric motor repair shop as they may have a rubber mount from an unrepairable motor ...free? Maybe the entire end cap from a similar one.... free?


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

That's good info, thank you!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I have mostly vintage equipment in my shop, half of which I bought new.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

I think you'll be happy with the scroll saw and jointer. Ive got one of the Homecraft bandsaws of the same vintage and the thing is a beast, I love it to death. Now I wanna find one of those jointers though...

Quick question, why are you wanting a RAS?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I've got both a miter saw and a radial arm saw....I wouldn't take 1000 for my 1950s dewalt saw. There's nothing better for quick easy accurate cross cuts.


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## schnitz (Sep 5, 2009)

I gave $40 or $45 for my RAS. Granted, it is an early 1980's Craftsman 12". Deals can be had, and at $400, that saw seems like no deal to me.


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

Steve,

Does that mean we're "vintage" too??

HJ


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

honesttjohn said:


> Steve,
> 
> Does that mean we're "vintage" too??
> 
> HJ


More than I would like. :laughing:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

So what you're saying, is that if you were a car you'd have historical plates? 

To answer the question "why I want one", well my chop saw died and _something_ needs to take its place. I might as well get something "bigger and better". So I guess the short answer is that I have "upgrad-itus".


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

ryan50hrl said:


> ....I wouldn't take 1000 for my 1950s dewalt saw. There's nothing better for quick easy accurate cross cuts.


Comments like that make me happy. :thumbsup:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

My 16 inch saw was dead on square but it took a little time to tune up. Once it was set, it didn't change. I loved my saw especially when we were building a lot of cabinets and case work, it would make a 24-27 inch cross cut. Check out the prices on some of these ole boys:
http://www.machinesales.com/woodworking-equipment/saws/radial-arm-saws/dewalt


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Wow, those are high dollar!
If only I had the space and 220....


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I have a 1944 Dewalt GK 16" radial arm saw I got for $350.00 Apparently it was used in the war effort. I wish I could finish setting it up but it's in a part of my shop under construction and would get wet if not kept covered with plastic.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Oh, now THAT'S just cool!
Can I have it?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Oh, now THAT'S just cool!
> Can I have it?


Not hardly, I probably have a 1000 hours watching ebay and craigslist for a Dewalt saw. You wouldn't like it anyway. Not only is it 220V it is three phase. It had been wired to 440 volts and the wires weren't marked well enough I could wire it to 220V. I had to take it to a motor repair shop and have them redo it. 

Really the center piece of my vintage collection is my 14" band saw. It is the only known machine made by Winner.

Almost forgot, the Winner machine company was in St. Louis


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm convinced that those who dislike radial arm saws fall into two categories. 

1. Have never used a good quality one. Dewalt and delta saws are worlds ahead of the 70's through current craftsmans 

2. Have tried to use them as catch all machine. They're not good at ripping or moulding, ect. 

Radial arm saws are great for crosscutting. There's no comparison to any miter saw on the market.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Wow Steve, that band saw is a piece of art. I guess it's safe to say I can't have that either.
But yea, you were right, the 220 is a deal breaker for me. 

A RAS isn't good at mouldings!?!?!?!
I figured it would not only be good at it, but would be excel at it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Running anything in rip mode is dangerous on a radial arm saw, which is why associate them with missing limbs. 

They'll do all those things, just aren't the best option.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Roger that. More proof that I need to read the instructions before I turn it on.
This will now officially be the most dangerous tool in my shop.
The last time I used one was highschool back in the 80's.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Wow Steve, that band saw is a piece of art. I guess it's safe to say I can't have that either.
> But yea, you were right, the 220 is a deal breaker for me.
> 
> A RAS isn't good at mouldings!?!?!?!
> I figured it would not only be good at it, but would be excel at it.


You can do all sorts of things with a radial arm saw. At one time I used a craftsman radial arm saw as a shaper turning the arbor straight down. I just used a molding cutter for the cutterhead. The first cabinet job I sold I made the raised panel cabinet doors with the radial arm saw. It didn't do a great job but with a lot of sanding got the job done.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

The difference between should and can do make all the difference. 


Use it for crosscutting and keep a table saw for ripping.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Interesting. Never thought of a shaper.
The other day, I saw a jigsaw attachment for a vintage Craftsman RAS. That must be an interesting gearbox to pull that off. This tool gets more and more versatile every day.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

ryan50hrl said:


> The difference between should and can do make all the difference.
> 
> 
> Use it for crosscutting and keep a table saw for ripping.


Oh yea, indeed. :thumbsup:
But this is why I thought it would be so good for mouldings, because it's all crosscutting??


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*moldings on the RAS*



Steve Neul said:


> You can do all sorts of things with a radial arm saw. At one time I used a *craftsman radial arm saw as a shaper turning the arbor straight down. I just used a molding cutter for the cutterhead.*





Bob in St. Louis said:


> Oh yea, indeed. :thumbsup:
> But this is why I thought it would be so good for mouldings, *because it's all crosscutting??*


No. It's all ripping, that is running parallel along the fence with the cutter only partially exposed out from the fence. You turn the arbor vertically, mount your shaper head (same as the one on the table saw) provide a guard of some sort and away you go. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AMNjVfS4vs



This old fella goes on and on but the techniques are very useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRviFZLXBi8


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Interesting. Never thought of a shaper.
> The other day, I saw a jigsaw attachment for a vintage Craftsman RAS. That must be an interesting gearbox to pull that off. This tool gets more and more versatile every day.


Yea the radial arm saw is versitile however unless you have a lot of time on your hands it's too much trouble to make all the different setups with it. Once you move it from the cut off position to do something else it might take you an hour to put it back to the cut off position again to where it really cuts like it should. In my case as soon as I could get a shaper I never did any molding work on a radial arm saw again.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Is it "molding" or "moulding"?

I'll watch "the rambler" at home tonight. Thanks for the videos!

I thought the definition of "ripping" was the grain and blade are traveling in the same direction?

EDIT: Google shows both spelling as accurate.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Is it "molding" or "moulding"



Depends which side of the pond your on... :smile:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If I'm not mistaken it's molding in the United States and moulding in the UK. Either is acceptable in my book. 

Yes ripping is the blade and grain in the same direction. I believe woodenthings has a straight line rip jig he uses to straighten long lengths of lumber running through his radial arm saw ripping it. Since the way he has a radial arm saw set up with a long fence it makes it better to rip long lengths straight on an arm saw.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I use molding*



mdntrdr said:


> Depends which side of the pond your on... :smile:


I use molding because it saves on character count...just sayin':yes:

Probaby "moulding" is more proper.
"Mold" search brings up scummy bacteria type stuff.
Moulding brings up woodworking choices.

Molds may be the type you make to cast objects also:
http://www.fibreglast.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Composite_Making&utm_term=mold%20making%20supplies

Moulding may be the stuff you find at Home Depot to put around your cabinets and ceilings:
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Moulding-Millwork/N-5yc1vZaq4y

Either way they are pronounced the same, *unlike* roof which sounds like woof, and roof which sounds like tooth. Same with root and root.....:blink:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

woodnthings said:


> Moulding may be the stuff you find at Home Depot to put around your cabinets and ceilings


Yes, that what I was talking about when I thought a RAS would be ok for moldings since it's crosscutting. I was talking about cutting it to length, as in "installation", you guys were talking about the actually milling of "bulk" wood to create moldings, which would be ripping.

Now I understand.

I didn't think about the set up time to change the tool from one axis to another to ensure accuracy. I assumed the unit would have an adjustable "stop" to ensure wherever you put it would be at "zero" (ie: perfectly vertical or horizontal, etc...)
Again, more reasons I need to read a book before I use it.
I'll also need to get my hands on the machine itself, that should answer a bunch of questions pretty quick.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

One problem is most or all of the books written about radial arm saws anointed them as the greatest thing since sliced bread. None that I'm aware of were written from the perspective of "they can do this, but you shouldn't". 


Regarding the stops, they do have them, and the dewalt are among the better ones, but remember that .01 degrees out of square at the post is a bunch more noticeable at the end of the arm. I set mine to 90, and have never moved it.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

It's that "shouldn't" that concerns me the most. But based on what you say, the books are written by the same dorks that write automobile owners manuals. 

I only found one idiot on Youtube doing stupid things with a RAS. I was hoping for more. Seems idiots doing dumb things with table saws are much more common. Honestly, I'd rather learn watching somebody else make mistakes. I like a good train wreck almost as much as I like my fingers attached.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Irregardless...lol, I will always be a moulder, not a molder. :smile:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> It's that "shouldn't" that concerns me the most. But based on what you say, the books are written by the same dorks that write automobile owners manuals.
> 
> I only found one idiot on Youtube doing stupid things with a RAS. I was hoping for more. Seems idiots doing dumb things with table saws are much more common. Honestly, I'd rather learn watching somebody else make mistakes. I like a good train wreck almost as much as I like my fingers attached.


Nobody would want to see some of the things that has happened to me running a radial arm saw. Around 1980 I worked for a shop that had a Delta 12" radial arm saw the model was defective. Twice while running it the carriage bearings broke dropping the saw off the arm while I was running it. Fortunately the thing spun to the right away from me letting me run from it. The third time the saw came off the owner of the shop was running the saw and within hours the saw was out of the shop. 

The radial arm saw is made versatile because so many folks have limited space and funds for a complete shop. If a person is in that position then they should do all the different applications the saw is made for. There is no reason you couldn't tip the saw over on a 45 degree angle and use it to miter base molding. Then if the base molding is too wide you could rotate the saw perpendicular with the arm and use it to rip the width of the molding. The arm can also be swung over to a 45 degree angle and miter smaller molding as well as done on a miter box. Me personally I have a radial arm saw set up with a long table and fence and use it for cross cutting only but I have table saws, shapers and a miter box to do all these other functions.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> .... the carriage bearings broke dropping the saw off the arm while I was running it.....



 Wow, that's like something out of a movie!!!!
It's unfortunate employers don't understand/listen to the workers until something bad happens, or it happens to them. Glad no one got hurt though.

That's true about the "why" though. Good point. I've been wanting one for many years because of some of the things it does. Since I now (almost) own one, I've been doing more research on the other tricks it does and was getting excited. I guess I should cool my jets and see what it does (well) that's best for me and my shop.

Much thanks to the fellas that have given their words of wisdom in this thread. I think I'm going to like it here.

Bob - noob


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*you may like this You Tube*

It shows a radial arm saw used by someone who is very comfortable getting his hands close to the blade, too close in my opinion. The video is demonstrating the dust collection, BUT the speed and ease which the operator makes the cuts is also impressive. I'd like to know what blade he's using as it seem to not self feed whatsoever, a good thing! Looks like a Forrest in one of the shots?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRFjRvQTckM


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

In Delta's defense from what I understand they recalled the saw very quickly and discontinued that model so there probably isn't any of the saws out there anymore. They surely quit making the bearings for the saw. The first time the bearings broke I myself too felt it was a fluke and didn't even worry about running that saw again. After the second time the bearings broke I was extremely cautious with the saw cutting very slow with it so I didn't put much stress on it. I believe I only had to use the saw a few days before my boss broke the bearings for the third time and put an end to it. Funny, Craftsman uses bearings that look just like them and I've had a Craftsman saw for 41 years and have never had a problem.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks for the video, I'll check it out!


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

Hey Steve,

Does a Chicago Power Tool LCN-14 Drilling Machine and a DeWalt 740 RAS count as at least approaching vintage.

HJ


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

honesttjohn said:


> Hey Steve,
> 
> Does a Chicago Power Tool LCN-14 Drilling Machine and a DeWalt 740 RAS count as at least approaching vintage.
> 
> HJ


I don't know. In this country something that is 25 years old or more is considered an antique so that should be vintage. Most of the equipment I have was made between 1920 and 1974.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

UPDATE!

Well, I brought the DeWalt RAS home. For simply asking the guy, "What's your bottom dollar", he dropped the price to $350 from $400.

- DONE - 

The wood deck looks to be the original, as does the blade (maybe?) I've never seen a blade like this. I'll take a pic, just for grins, and show y'all.

It's not as heavy as I thought it would be, I'm a but disappointed in that. But all of the "actions" are as smooth as silk. It could use a cleaning, including a bit of special attention to the main "mast" (?), and a bit of oil. But MAN...this thing takes forever to wind down after shutting it off. It's rock solid, no vibration, and is the quietest power tool I own.

On the way home I stopped by Home Depot. The guy looked at me like I had two heads when I said I needed a 9" blade. 
Amazon...here I come....

I need to build a stand, tune it up, and replace the wooden deck. Then I should be ready to go.

I'm so excited I've thought about skipping Church tomorrow!
(not)

Bob


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

You might check this one out....It has the correct hook angle for a radial arm saw 

http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products?c=Saw_Blades&shop=Woodworker&diameter=6"_to_9"&page=2


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Also...on the post being difficult to crank up and down, there's a 2 foot long threaded shaft in there that over the years gets all gunked up. After breaking it all down, it took me a few hours with brake cleaner and a brass brush to get all the dried up grease out of it. Once that was cleaned and relubed with dry teflon lube, I can adjust it with one finger.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Oh crap...I've never even of heard of hook angle.
I'm not totally a "wood-noob", but hanging out here after a short time has certainly taught me that I don't know as much as I thought.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Oh yea, I like the brake clean comment. That's exactly what this unit needs. 
Thank you Ryan!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*get the hook....*



Bob in St. Louis said:


> Oh crap...I've never even of heard of hook angle.
> I'm not totally a "wood-noob", but hanging out here after a short time has certainly taught me that I don't know as much as I thought.


Let's talk physics regarding cutting wood. The table saw blade comes up from the bottom, the teeth enter the wood at the leading edge and pull it down towards the table surface. In this case the blades tooth angle or hook doesn't matter a whole lot. The work is pulled down on the table as the cut progresses.

The radial arm saw is quite different. The blade comes down from above, enters the work and tends to lift it up and carry it into the fence IF you are pulling the carriage from behind as you should. If you push the saw into the work that condition is magnified and you really need to hold on to the workpiece.... not the preferred or safest method. :no:

If the tooth angle or hook is positive/aggressive or more than zero that condition is also magnified. A negative hook angle enters the work such that it presses down rather than lifts up, a good thing. If you try to rip on the RAS, the blade is lifting the work as you go, so it's very important to rotate the nose of the blade guard lightly touching the work to hold it down.
Most folks don't recognize this and ripping becomes a dangerous operation resulting in kickback.

Feed direction is also very important as you don't want to "self feed" the work under the blade by working from the wrong side of the blade. Hope this helps with the safe use of your new saw. :yes:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Oh yea, I like the brake clean comment. That's exactly what this unit needs.
> Thank you Ryan!



It's a fair amount of work to get the shaft out, but was well worth the time and headache to do it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Oh crap...I've never even of heard of hook angle.
> I'm not totally a "wood-noob", but hanging out here after a short time has certainly taught me that I don't know as much as I thought.



So on a radial arm saw with the wrong blade, the blade will want to pull the carriage out at you at a fast pace.....however with the correct blade, the saw won't want to pull towards you.


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## schnitz (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm learning a TON off this thread about the "why's" of how mine works the way it does. So instead of thanking you all individually, THANKS!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> So on a radial arm saw with the wrong blade, the blade will want to pull the carriage out at you at a fast pace.....however with the correct blade, the saw won't want to pull towards you.


No, any blade is going to want to cut faster than it can. You have to control the speed. On a underpowered saw it's possible to have the blade run all the way across the top of a board without cutting it. The blade pretty much quits turning and the momentum of the saw just keeps going.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I should have stated, it won't pull towards you as hard. With a 60 tooth table saw blade mines hard to control. With the correct blade it's easy to control the speed. 

I'm not sure how you think it would jump over the board without cutting, that would require the arm to lift up...which at least on the dewalts ain't happening.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> I should have stated, it won't pull towards you as hard. With a 60 tooth table saw blade mines hard to control. With the correct blade it's easy to control the speed.
> 
> I'm not sure how you think it would jump over the board without cutting, that would require the arm to lift up...which at least on the dewalts ain't happening.


It's hard to believe the arm will raise up but I've had it happen several times over the years with my Craftsman saw. I get in a hurry and make the cut too fast. I agree the Dewalt isn't going to do that and is one of the reasons I bought one.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have some old Craftsman RASs*



Steve Neul said:


> It's hard to believe the arm will raise up but I've had it happen several times over the years with my Craftsman saw. I get in a hurry and make the cut too fast. I agree the Dewalt isn't going to do that and is one of the reasons I bought one.


I'm going to try to lift the arm/column out of the base and see if it moves. If it does or doesn't I'll report back here. Yours may nave had an issue, I donno? It may be that the Craftsman's design simply allows the column to "slide" in the base support and the height adjustment just raises it, but does not secure it, I donno?

we'll see :blink:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It maybe only lifts up 1/2". The teeth of the blade press all the way into the board when it does that.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

That sounds like a good opportunity to lose a thumb if the blade advances that far, that fast before yo're ready for it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*a 5 saw test*



woodnthings said:


> I'm going to try to lift the arm/column out of the base and see if it moves. If it does or doesn't I'll report back here. Yours may have had an issue, I donno? It may be that the Craftsman's design simply allows the column to "slide" in the base support and the height adjustment just raises it, but does not secure it, I donno?
> 
> we'll see :blink:


I "tested" 5 of my Craftsman radial arm saws, from a 1960's to 1985's or so. I could only lift one up 1/16", the rest were solid when I "deadlifted" 3 of them. Two of the others I pried up with a block and lever ...they didn't move. I just don't understand how it's possible to have the blade ride up on top of the work unless it's like 1/4" thick and even that seems remote. 

If the arm and column is not secured against raising vertically, then yes, it's possible, but mine didn't move enough to allow that. 

Unless there are several accounts of this phenomenon occurring on other Craftsman saws I would say there was a definite issue with the one that it occurred on.
:yes: So, I wouldn't judge all by the behavior of one... 


As far as "underpowered" saws goes, it would seem more logical that the motor would just stall as it has happened to me on several occasions. If I allowed it to self feed too quickly and it stalled, I either moved it back out of the kerf or shut it off.

All my saws are either 10" or 12" models, so I don't have experience with anything else. I prefer the 12" models which are rated slightly more amperage, but I use a 10" blade on them anyway. The motor carriages are interchangeable. The arms and columns are almost the same in every aspect. The newer 2 piece split column housing was the one on which I could lift the column slightly, if that makes a difference I donno? :blink:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

My saw is that tight too but it happened. It just makes a difference when you get the power of the saw in on it. I fear the pressure is pushing the carriage bearings to the limit so I wouldn't recommend anyone pry that hard on it to see if it can happen. In 40 years it's only happened two or three times.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> That sounds like a good opportunity to lose a thumb if the blade advances that far, that fast before you're ready for it.


If you keep your hands away from that saw cut on the table you should never injure yourself on a radial arm saw. If the saw advances too fast it just advances too fast. It just makes a poor cut.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I have two or three times stalled my saw, it's never moved upward. I'd guess there's something wrong with your craftsman.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

I could see a given piece of hardwood, the teeth being able to climb up and out.... Not out of play in the components, but out of all components involved flexing buy a couple percent out of their normal range. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'm a "5" with wood and a "10" with automobiles. I've seen stranger things happen with metal on cars that I would have never imagined could possibly happen. But force, and torque, combined with the workpiece being of just the right (or, "wrong") hardness, I could see that happening given the proverbial planets aligning. "The perfect storm", as they say.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

So I'm thinking this blade. It seems to be a good, all around general "catch all" blade, and it's not a "bank breaker".

Thoughts please?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004T7PR...UTF8&colid=1CVTZKMDPZHO&coliid=I3JDO5ZUFI066Q


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Just for 'grins', I took a shot of the blade for y'all. 
Not sure if it's original, But it looks pretty vintage to me.
It's definitely worn out and seen better days.


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

Hard to see in the picture but the blade looks like the teeth have a set to them, if so that is a high speed steel blade instead of carbide. The combination blade is my favorite blade for a table saw, I don't like thin kerf blades, personally.

I wish I knew the answer why the blade rode up on the board, but it did for me also, but just two or three times. I can't remember, but does that RAS have a lock to keep it from raising up or down? If so that may be the problem, if it wasn't locked and had a lot of slack the whole head, arm and all could raise up. I just can't remember that far back.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Just for 'grins', I took a shot of the blade for y'all.
> Not sure if it's original, But it looks pretty vintage to me.
> It's definitely worn out and seen better days.


I used to have a blade like that but not that brand. For a high speed steel blade it cut really good. You could have that one sharpened and it would work well for you.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

You really think it's work having this blade sharpened, over buying the one I linked to?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

That blade won't cut quite as well as a carbide blade but pretty close. Also it won't last as long before it will need sharpening but should work well for home use. Since I'm running a business a blade like that would only last a month before needing sharpening. In a home shop it might last a year. It might not hurt to have it sharpened to use as a spare when the time comes to have the Freud blade sharpened.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> So I'm thinking this blade. It seems to be a good, all around general "catch all" blade, and it's not a "bank breaker".
> 
> Thoughts please?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004T7PR...UTF8&colid=1CVTZKMDPZHO&coliid=I3JDO5ZUFI066Q



This blade will give a nice finish cut, but has a positive hook angle therefor is not the correct blade for a radial arm saw. Will it work, yes. Is it correct, no.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks to both of you!
I hate to ask to be spoon fed information, but I searched the Freud and Amazon site for RAS specific blades and came up empty handed.
I'm looking for something "general purpose", and of course closer to the <$50 price than the >$70.

Just for grins, pics of the "new" RAS coming up shortly.....


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

So here's some photos of the new saw.
I have one observation...Isn't the fence too far back?

Also, I have my doubts that the paint is original.
I spent a few minutes playing with the unit, spraying some WD-40 in places that are stiff, and generally checking things out. I used compressed air to help clean things out, but was amazed when large chunks of the green paint blew off....and I mean chunks 1.5" in diameter. Certainly "factory" paint wouldn't do this. 
(The 3rd and 4th photos down shows a large "bald spot" on top of the motor that is now missing paint)

Overall, I'm happy with my purchase. The unit seems solid and all functions work. There's a few stiff spots, but that's easy.

The next thing I do will be to replace the 'deck' and mount it in its new home.














Is this REALLY where the fence is supposed to start? :blink:


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## BigJim (Sep 2, 2008)

That is one fine looking saw. Yes the fence is too far back, it looks like there are two fillers in front of the fence. You sure don't want to let the spinning blade touch the materials to be cut while the head is all the way back, you need to move it forward.

That high speed steel blade is easy to sharpen yourself. Back when I got into wood working there were no carbide tipped blades, and when they did come out they were so high most couldn't afford them. We had to sharpen the blade right there on the job, didn't take but a few minutes at the most.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

A few things...

1. You're looking for sliding miter saw blades. As they're now the prevalent saw in the market they've renamed the blades. 

2. The fence is too far back, but it looks like the location that it should be in maybe has a filler strip?? 

3. The paint is the correct color....original or not is hard to say.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Here's the blade I would strongly recommended as it has the correct design for a sliding miter or radial arm saw. It is the safest option. 

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU91R01...1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424656298&sr=8-1&keywords=Lu91


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> Unless there are several accounts of this phenomenon occurring on other Craftsman saws I would say there was a definite issue with the one that it occurred on.
> :yes: So, I wouldn't judge all by the behavior of one...


Well, I have personally witnessed this same thing happen on a craftsman RAS. There wasn't anything wrong with it, but the "perfect storm" of feeding too fast and probably several other factors causes the blade to self feed faster than it can cut, and the wood being soft enough that the teeth can dig in instead of stalling just caused the blade to climb on top the workpiece and drive across it.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

ryan50hrl said:


> Here's the blade I would strongly recommended as it has the correct design for a sliding miter or radial arm saw. It is the safest option.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU91R01...1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424656298&sr=8-1&keywords=Lu91


Thanks, but that's a 10" blade. Isn't this a 9" saw?


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Ooops....meant to post this one....same blade, smaller size...

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU91R00...5?ie=UTF8&qid=1424658917&sr=8-5&keywords=Lu91


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Yes the fence is too far back. It should be set to where you can at least put a 1 1/2" thick wood in front of the blade and not have the blade touching it. I would remake the table anyway. The hole is too small to drop trash through. :laughing:

I never did determine the original color of a Dewalt saw. I gave up and just picked a color I liked to paint mine.


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## honesttjohn (Jan 27, 2015)

When I was at the Detroit Woodworkers show last week end I picked up a blade from Ridge Carbide Tool Corp - - Made in USA (well, New Jersey - close enuff). The owner was there and was cutting oak slices - didn't even have to joint or sand - that's how smooth it cut.

They also sharpen saw blades and router bits to factory specs.

www.ridgeblades.com

800.443.0992

HJ

1st time I ever heard of them -- but got my attention


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Ryan, thank you!
That one looks as good, if not better, than any I've seen. The price is acceptable too!

Steve,
Is that what that hole in the deck is?
It seemed fairly useless. But I've got a nice DC unit to suck away the dust anyway. ha ha


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

John, I'll check that one out tomorrow (when I've got more time) but it'll have to be awesome to beat the deal Ryan found!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Ryan, thank you!
> That one looks as good, if not better, than any I've seen. The price is acceptable too!
> 
> Steve,
> ...


The hole I got with my saw was more useless. It was bigger but didn't go all the way through. :laughing:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

ryan50hrl said:


> Ooops....meant to post this one....same blade, smaller size...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU91R00...5?ie=UTF8&qid=1424658917&sr=8-5&keywords=Lu91


I just bought that. Thanks for the recommendation Ryan. Much appreciated! :thumbsup:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> I just bought that. Thanks for the recommendation Ryan. Much appreciated! :thumbsup:



No problem. Happy to help


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## Toms94 (Oct 31, 2007)

epicfail48 said:


> I think you'll be happy with the scroll saw and jointer. Ive got one of the Homecraft bandsaws of the same vintage and the thing is a beast, I love it to death. Now I wanna find one of those jointers though...
> 
> Quick question, why are you wanting a RAS?


I have a 4" delta jointer that I would sell. Doesn't have a stand or motor though. I bought it for my (now) ex- son in law. He never got it set up and I ended up with it. Contact me if you are interested. I'm in SW Kansas but would ship it to you.

On subject here. That RAS is priced a bit too high. It does appear to be in good shape, but still, it's a 9 or 10" saw. Those $1500 saws are, more than likely, 14 or 16" versions. One poster is right, check out the wear on the arm. If worn too much it's basically scrap metal.

I have mostly vintage tools in my shop. 1965 Delta Unisaw, 1945 Delta 14" bandsaw, 1960's 12" Delta disk sander, 1950 Delta HD shaper, 1970's Delta/Rockwell 6" jointer. My newer tools are my 1999 Delta 12" variable speed lathe, my 1979 Craftsman RAS (wife bought that for me for my college graduation present....I'm a high school woodworking teacher), my 1988 Delta 16" drill press (Chinese made, not the highest quality), 2000 Grizzly 20" planer (dang good machine for the money), and my 1985 Delta 9" miter saw. I'm really into vintage hand power tools as well. I have several Porter Cable and Rockwell routers, 690's, 630's 537's. What I have found is, these old tools are just extremely well built and seem to last forever, compared to new tools. 

As a side note here, at school here, I have a Craftsman router that I bought in 1979 (my first year of teaching) that is still in use today. I've replaced the bearings in it once. That sucker won't die. It definitely is an odd occurrence though. Mostly Porter Cable hand power tools here. Powermatic, Delta, Dewalt RAS (12") and a couple old Oliver machines.


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## Toms94 (Oct 31, 2007)

OK, I didn't read the entire thread before posting. I see that you bought that saw. You've received some good advice regarding blades too. I like the Freud LU85 blade (not sure if they even have that model any more). It's smooth cutting, and doesn't "feed quite as aggressively" as other blades. As someone stated earlier, some blades feed much more aggressively. Positive hook angle tends to do it more. The LU85 has a 5* negative hook (IIRC). If you pull too fast, it will still climb the wood and jam. That's one of the tough things for my students to get used to, when using the RAS and i have a negative hook blade on ours here. 

As for the fence, you can place it where ever you want. I have mine set far enough back, that when the saw is as far back as possible, I can still place a 1" (actual thickness, 5/4 stock) on the table and the blade doesn't contact it. That gives me a 13" crosscut capability with our saw. thicker stock can still be cut, but we have to place a "spacer fence" on it to get it far enough away so the blade won't contact the wood before startup.

I hope that this information is useful.


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## Toms94 (Oct 31, 2007)

It appears that they have changed the design of the LU85, or my memory isn't what it used to be. :blink: The LU85 has a positive hook angle, but looks to be minimal, maybe 5 to 8*. It's still my choice. But again, I see that you have already purchased the LU91. It has the negative hook you will want on the saw. Being 8 1/2" instead of 9, you've given up a little crosscut capacity and max depth of cut.

I believe that you will enjoy that saw.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thank you for all of that detailed information Tom.
So far, All I've done is install the new blade and lube some stiff joints (_on the machine, not me_).
Until I fix the old, uneven, unstable deck surface, I won't run any wood through it, which is why I've been quiet recently.


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## sc204 (Apr 24, 2014)

Usually only browse the forum occasionally but your RAS caught my attention. It was the main tool in my dads workshop where I grew up. Looks like the same one. I cut a lot of wood with that saw. Did things that were probably dangerous by my standards today 
I think it is likely the original paint. Looks spot on and would seem like a whole lot of work to repaint it that good.

Good luck with it.


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## Max613 (Oct 9, 2012)

*Max613*

:yes:The motor had rubber bushings around the mount. My dad had a jointer like the one you have, It came mounted on a Wards table saw. It was a combination set up. You could run a jointer, drill press, disk sander off the saw motor. I think that they were marked as Delta Rockwell but please don't quote me on that. Max


Bob in St. Louis said:


> My neighbor gave me a couple tools he acquired, but didn't want. No charge to me, at all! :thumbsup:
> 
> They're both Delta Milwaukee Homecraft brand. Best I can tell, they're from the late 1940's, to early 50's.
> The scrollsaw is amazing and works like it just came out of the box, brand new. The motor isn't mounted securely, there's something missing, I'm not sure what it is, yet the machine still works perfectly.
> ...


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Wow Max, you joined three years ago, but just posted for the first time on my thread!

Thank you and SC204 for the post!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

1954 advertisement.


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## sc204 (Apr 24, 2014)

Although I do not use it I actually have a similar Craftsman jigsaw. Works pretty well.


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## Gary Viveiros (Jun 6, 2013)

*rubber shock mount missing is right!*



BigJim said:


> The motor in the bracket is missing the rubber grommet, I would do as djg suggested and silicone it in place.
> 
> What size Dewalt RAS, I had a 1957 5 hp 220v 16 inch that is still running like a champ today, they just don't die like the new ones today. I gave $1,500 for my saw back in 87 or 89.


You could use silicone or get a tube of Shoe Goo (clear variety) which is basically polyurethane rubber which will harden really tough. The original shock mount keeps a lot of the motor vibration isolated from the table mount which results in less noise. You gotta figure that the isolation mounts from way-back-when, used real rubber which got hard as a rock but brittle through the decades, and wore away all together. Today they use longer lasting synthetics, but they still need pliability to perform the task of noise isolation. You can see an example in your washer or dryer 's motor mount, if and when you ever need to open them for repair.


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## Dam8 (Jan 22, 2015)

This post interested me when I fell upon it....I have a dewalt ras vintage 1950s. I actually stopped using it when I got a sliding mitre saw. It has sort of been a dust collector ever since
So, If I ever pulled the sawblade towards me, unless you seriously resist, it would climb. I'd have to re zero the blade, and check for perpendicularity, kind of a pain in the [email protected]&!
Before I made a long bench for it, it had a fence way back like the one showed, it seemed like it might make for wider cross cuts? I used a 2x4 so I could slide stock along the fence and the blade was protected and as said previously, I'd use a perch to raise the fence it getting thw extra inch or so
Btw, I also hacea. Bunch of old tools,1924 Blount lathe, 1968 delta drill press, 1943 newton boring machine, I probably have a vintage replacement for all my hand bless too! Some real cool ones too. Boy they don't make em they way they used too


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## kkapp (Jan 30, 2013)

If memory serves me right those rubber mounts on the scroll saw motor are replaceable. I would take it to a motor shop & see if they are.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Great information fellas, thank you!
I still haven't spent any more time or effort on the motor mount.
I should get around to that.


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## Stevedore (Dec 28, 2011)

kkapp said:


> If memory serves me right those rubber mounts on the scroll saw motor are replaceable. I would take it to a motor shop & see if they are.


 A common name for them is motor mounting rings; any motor repair shop should have suitable replacements. I had the bushings replaced in a furnace blower motor once, and the shop replaced the rubber things as a general precaution. I'm not sure they even charged me for them.

I've seen them with hex or square holes, or round with varying numbers of teeth or "keys" that fit into recesses in the part of the motor that they fit onto. Google images will show you varying types.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

_'motor mounting rings'_....THAT'S THE TICKET RIGHT THERE!!
Perfect information, thank you very much! Google has a truckload of options.


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

The *Resilient Mounting* motor I purchased a couple of years ago came with bushings so I could adapt to my old base.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Yes indeed. That phrase came up too. Thanks men!


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## Toms94 (Oct 31, 2007)

Steve Neul said:


> Nobody would want to see some of the things that has happened to me running a radial arm saw. Around 1980 I worked for a shop that had a Delta 12" radial arm saw the model was defective. Twice while running it the carriage bearings broke dropping the saw off the arm while I was running it. Fortunately the thing spun to the right away from me letting me run from it. The third time the saw came off the owner of the shop was running the saw and within hours the saw was out of the shop.


I remember when these saws were having that issue. I believe there were some lawsuits and a recall on those machines,


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## Max613 (Oct 9, 2012)

*Max613*



Steve Neul said:


> 1954 advertisement.


This is the combo that my father purchased. The table saw uses a 71/2 inch blade. My brother still has the saw and jointer.

:yes:


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

Unlike today it was common for the equipment like Bob's vintage scroll saw and jointer to come without a stand and often no motor and we were on our own. Bob's are a perfect example and I love to see what others have done to solve their problem.

I have some of those as far back as the mid 1940s and found the belt tension adjustment was usually a problem keeping the correct tension. Then one day, really by an enjineeering accident, I discovered a simple way to mount a motor so the motor weight tensioned the belt as our newer equipment does but without having to build the modern extravagant steel hinge system. It just won't work on anything with a tilting arbor but that isn't a problem in this thread.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

SeniorSitizen said:


> Unlike today it was common for the equipment like Bob's vintage scroll saw and jointer to come without a stand and often no motor and we were on our own. Bob's are a perfect example and I love to see what others have done to solve their problem.
> 
> I have some of those as far back as the mid 1940s and found the belt tension adjustment was usually a problem keeping the correct tension. Then one day, really by an enjineeering accident, I discovered a simple way to mount a motor so the motor weight tensioned the belt as our newer equipment does but without having to build the modern extravagant steel hinge system. It just won't work on anything with a tilting arbor but that isn't a problem in this thread.


Ah, the old "stick the motor on a hinge" tensioning method. Gotta love the simplicity of it


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## SeniorSitizen (May 2, 2012)

epicfail48 said:


> Ah, the old "stick the motor on a hinge" tensioning method. Gotta love the simplicity of it


Mine is even more simple than a hinge. There isn't even a hinge. That's too complicated .:laughing:


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I have a 1963 Craftsman Radial Arm Saw, I just love it. I bought it in November 2014. I only paid $50 for it.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

I've modified the bench that once held the chop saw. Had to shorten it by several inches to facilitate the height of the new saw. I wanted the deck to be level with the workbench height to the left of the saw.

Here's the test fit. Note the old (very small) deck. I think this wood is a half century old!
Also note, I cut out a section of the peg-board so the saw can 'nest' back into the wall.
Otherwise, it'll stick too far out into the shop. It also gives that upper crank handle a place to go without banging my knuckles on the pegboard. 



Things are getting closer. I'm sneaking up on the proper "level of things".
Note the new deck.



I'm happy with the progress so far, so it's time to make things permanent.
Since I was born a poor white child (reference to a Steve Martin movie) I'm forced to use the wood I have on hand. It happens to be some 1/2" baltic birch.
That's too thin, so I've doubled it up, so the deck will be one inch thick.
The best way to make two pieces of 1/2" into a 1" thick piece and be as flat as possible, is to vacuum bag it.
Some of you car guys might recognize what I'm using with the vacuum bagging system.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Quick question for you fellas. I've found the manuals for the equipment, but none of them have info on the motors themselves. 
Both of these motors have little oil fills. What kind of oil goes in these?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I normally use single viscosity 30w oil. It doesn't take but a couple drops a week.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks Steve. Should I start off with a couple drops, assuming they're "dry"?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Thanks Steve. Should I start off with a couple drops, assuming they're "dry"?


It wouldn't hurt. Some folks try to fill the thing up every time they use the motor. That is too much. I forget what's inside of it. I believe it has some kind of cloth wick that holds the oil preventing it from really drying out that quick.


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

3-in-1 motor oil was designed for that purpose. A little can will last you a lifetime.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Good deal, thanks guys.
I can imagine a thick felt ring in there that holds the oil. Otherwise, it would just run out.
That's what I'm guessing anyway.
Thanks!


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Bob in St. Louis said:


> Thanks Steve. Should I start off with a couple drops, assuming they're "dry"?


I worded that poorly. What I meant to say was, _"Should I start out with *more than* a couple drops the first time?"_
But from the sounds of it, "more" won't hurt as long as I don't get stupid with it.


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## gmcooter (Jan 22, 2015)

*motor*

I have a motor that looks like that one. It has rubber in the mounts. It is in good shape. It came off of and old furnace blower that i made a dc from.If I weren't so far away I'd give to you. gmcooter


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Appreciated Cooter!
I bought some 3-in-1 oil on the way home from church.
Gonna be nice to finally get these lubed up so I can use them.
I've been avoiding running them since they're probably dry.


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## Toolman2 (Jun 15, 2010)

Also, before you add the oil, make sure to blow out the motor real good because most of the time, they're full of sawdust, metal, etc.:thumbsup:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Whoops.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

Those are some pretty cool tools. I love the old stuff.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks!
Yea, the RAS is amazing. So smooth, so quiet.
You can talk at normal conversation levels while it's running.

The scrollsaw I'm still having a hard time finding the correct size motor mount rings, so it's been idle.
The jointer is too stiff in the actual mandrel/bit bearing area, so it's been idle.
As time allows, I've been cleaning them up, and rewiring the motors. These old wires are so brittle they're scary.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I feel stupid Bob, sounds like french to me. LOL, I am learning how to do wood work, and it is interesting on how people are getting these cool toys and fixing them up. I am about to embark on a journey on fixing up a 1960's Craftsman 100. I am picking up next weekend. I am paying $25 for it. It comes with 3 table extentions.


Bob in St. Louis said:


> Thanks!
> Yea, the RAS is amazing. So smooth, so quiet.
> You can talk at normal conversation levels while it's running.
> 
> ...


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Oh no, don't feel stupid. It'll all be second nature before you know it.
Here's a few definitions;

RAS = Radial Arm Saw
Motor Mount Rings = Rubber mounts to secure the electric motor to the mount (see page 1 and 2 of this thread where I learned the term)


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks Bob, lol. I am about to embark a retoration of a Craftsman 100 Table Saw. I have no clue how to, but I have nothing but time to figure it out. I watched a video on removing rust from cast iron Table top. that will be where I start 1st. Then I will atemp to break it down and put it back together. I will be asking alot of questions along the way. I pick up the saw on the 11th of this month.


Bob in St. Louis said:


> Oh no, don't feel stupid. It'll all be second nature before you know it.
> Here's a few definitions;
> 
> RAS = Radial Arm Saw
> Motor Mount Rings = Rubber mounts to secure the electric motor to the mount (see page 1 and 2 of this thread where I learned the term)


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Just a word of advise......I would recommend to tackle the hardest part first. Meaning, the one thing that scares you the most. The reason is, if you spend a bunch of time and money on the easy stuff, then hit the hard stuff and give up on the project, you'll have wasted all your time and money to that point.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks, I know when I work on the guts, I will be taking alot of pictures, so I can try to get it back together. I don't plan on quitting. If it takes me a year to do it, then so be it. I don't have a fancy shop or tools, so I will have to use what I have. I have heard on the sites, to replace the bearings on the saw's if you buy an old table saw, so I will have to figure it out on how to do it without destroying it. When I do start the project, I will be printing the manual off, so I can see the pictures.


Bob in St. Louis said:


> Just a word of advise......I would recommend to tackle the hardest part first. Meaning, the one thing that scares you the most. The reason is, if you spend a bunch of time and money on the easy stuff, then hit the hard stuff and give up on the project, you'll have wasted all your time and money to that point.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Good deal. You an I sound a lot alike.
I found a HUGE .pdf on my RAS. But then I lost the link and can't find it anymore.
It was essentially a blog of some guy that had take one completely apart, cleaned it, repainted it, reassembled it and calibrated it. I was going to save that and print it out, and lost it. So mad at myself.
So if you find information, *SAVE IT*.
More than likely, somebody has already done what you're about to do, and documented it.
For sure, replace all the wiring on it. That has the capability to burn your house down.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

When you can, send me the model number and I can see if I can find it. That how I got my manuals, was surfing the web. If I find it, I can email it to you. I am still looking to see if I can find somebody that has done the same model. I found 1 person that took pictures of the parts on that saw on photo bucket.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Other than "MBC", I've only seen it refereed to as a 9" DeWalt radial arm saw.
Here's a random page I found:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=15055

But on page 5 of this thread, are photos of mine.
Thanks for the offer, but don't spend much time on me. I'll find it again, I'm determined. There was just too much good info to not "re-find". ha ha


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Mbc is the model on that one I believe.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thank you Ryan, I think you're correct.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

CherryWoodWorker said:


> When you can, send me the model number and I can see if I can find it. That how I got my manuals, was surfing the web. If I find it, I can email it to you. I am still looking to see if I can find somebody that has done the same model. I found 1 person that took pictures of the parts on that saw on photo bucket.


I FOUND IT !!!!!!!!!  :thumbsup:

http://www.giftsofwood.com/ebook/rebuild a dewalt mbf.pdf

Hopefully, somebody else with this saw finds this thread, and finds this info helful. There is a wealth of information on this particular unit.

Bob


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

That's pretty amazing.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Yes indeed. That's a tremendous amount of information in one place for a 60 year old tool.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

The scrollsaw is finally ready for daily use!

The motor has been mounted in the cradle with new rubber mounts.
The gearbox/crankshaft has been disassembled and lubed. 
The upper section of the reciprocating mechanism has been disassembled, cleaned and lubed.
The deck has been sanded (to remove rust) and lubed.
All wiring has been replaced with modern, including a modern safety switch instead of the 65 year old light switch!

Here's some "pron" for ya...

(Remember the old, partially missing mount?)



Here's the new mount. They don't make the exact size I need anymore.
I made up the difference with automotive vacuum hose. It's extremely solid.



For $30, I bought these mounts. They were as close as I could find.
The inside diameter was too tight, so I carved it out with a razor blade to get the diameter I needed.



Cleaned up looking better....



Note the position of the old school light switch...



Now, a new safety switch. I robbed it from my recently deceased table saw.
Mounting it in a typical vertical position meant I had to make a filler plate since the old switch was mounted horizontally.
I knew I couldn't match the 65 year old "patina'd" wood, so I went with good ol fashion black.



I took the cover off the gearbox so I could clean it out, and get some new lube in there.
I didn't bother trying to find a gasket. I just made my own.
An old school trick I learned from the automotive field.





See the gasket? ha ha ha ha
Thanks Bud Select!





Fired up and running smooth.



Belt cover installed.



I want to replace the old soup can light fixture, but my teenage son tells me that the soup can is "epic" and I should leave it alone.
Not sure on that one. I was thinking of a new school LED fixture with multiple points of light from different directions to avoid shadows.
But I kinda dig the soup can.....since my son thinks it's cool.


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## Mort (Jan 4, 2014)

I think you should find a Campbell's tomato soup can for it. You can tell people it used to belong to Andy Warhol.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Funny!

After I got it running, I let it run "no load" for a few minutes so it could "stretch its legs", so to speak.
Didn't take long before the bulb burnt out. Then, I notice I've created a vibration that wasn't there before. 

In hindsight, I recall the pulley was stuck on the shaft, like BIG TIME.
The puller I used (ever so carefully) bent the pulley. So I think that's my new vibration.
I've got an LED bulb in there, which is great, but I need a new pulley now, because this is WAY out of whack.
Crap.


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## CcCaraway (Apr 6, 2015)

Vintage equipment is the way to go for anyone who has the time and patience to tune them. I own several tools that are twice my age. Cast iron beats sheet metal any day. If you are interested in in-depth information on the subject check out OWWT.COM (Old Woodworking Tools . Com).


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

May as well go all the way. Slap some machined pulleys and a link belt on that mother


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## CcCaraway (Apr 6, 2015)

The Owwt.com is the discussion page linked to vintage machinery. They are both great sites. You have to be approved by a administrator but it's worth it and they have a classified section that is craigslist× a gazillion for old tools.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks guys.
I've tried to join the Vintage Machinery page a few times, but it's blocking me for some reason.
I finally gave up.

The machined pulley thing sounds interesting. I'll check into that. Might just be what I need.
Thanks!


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

CcCaraway said:


> Vintage equipment is the way to go for anyone who has the time and patience to tune them. I own several tools that are twice my age. Cast iron beats sheet metal any day. If you are interested in in-depth information on the subject check out OWWT.COM (Old Woodworking Tools . Com).


Are you sure?
Seems that domain name is for sale.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think the site you are looking for is www.owwm.org Old Woodworking Machines 

It is the site linked with Vintage Machinery. They have a kinda snobbish attitude over there so be careful what you ask. They don't allow discussion on Asian made equipment. Also you sure don't ask what a machine might be worth or link a craigslist add and ask advice on whether you should buy or not. If you keep the talk about the machine or restoration you will be alright.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thank you Steve. Doesn't sound like folks I'd get along with if they've got that attitude. I'd rather hang out with people that are more "grounded". Thank you for the heads-up.


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## Max613 (Oct 9, 2012)

*Question*

I have a friend who has an old router that was her Dad's. I am wondering if there is a site that she can list it on to sell it.

I do not know anything about what brand it is or what condition it is in.

Max 613


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## CcCaraway (Apr 6, 2015)

I'm sorry it is OWWM. Old WoodWorking Machines . I am a member and they have tons of friendly folks who are willing to lend advice. I have a Walker Turner 16" bandsaw and they have talked me through restoring it. They also have a BOYD... Bring Out Your Dead .... classified section where you can find complete tools as well as parts. You can also post *** looking for*** ads and find almost any part for any tool. Check it out!!!


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## CcCaraway (Apr 6, 2015)

The Vintage Machine and Old WoodWorking Machine page is for exactly that. ... old cast iron U.S. made machinery ( Canada and European can be discussed) but they do ask you exclude Asian made tools. I don't think we are being snobbish. It is a site to help with tools 20yrs old or older ( sometimes much older) machines. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with those tools but if you included them how many 20yr+Asian made tools are still making sawdust? ???


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The only Asian made machine I own is a drill press. It was made in Taiwan in 1983. The only time it has ever needed repair is when a storm destroyed my shop and the roof fell on it. It broke the cast iron base but I was able to weld it back together. It still works as well as the day I bought it.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Impossible. If it's made in China it's garbage.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> Impossible. If it's made in China it's garbage.


Sorry, It's a Duracraft drill press I bought at Home Depot for $150.00.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

You must be wrong. It's gotta be so difficult to use that it's ten times harder to build something. Imagine what you could make if you used a real drill press.....


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> You must be wrong. It's gotta be so difficult to use that it's ten times harder to build something. Imagine what you could make if you used a real drill press.....


I don't understand. It works as well as any drill press I've ever used. I also use it to drill all the 35mm hinge holes on my doors.


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

I guess it's true that sarcasm really doesn't translate on the Internet. I'm a firm believer that plenty of good equipment comes from the orient.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> I guess it's true that sarcasm really doesn't translate on the Internet. I'm a firm believer that plenty of good equipment comes from the orient.


I'm kinda like warner, for me good equipment comes from the antique shop. The newest machine I bought in the last couple years was made in 1960.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks guys. I might check out the other site, thanks for the recommendation.
I've always thought there should be a sarcasm font for forums.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

ryan50hrl said:


> You must be wrong. It's gotta be so difficult to use that it's ten times harder to build something. Imagine what you could make if you used a real drill press.....


I see you and I share opinions on that other thread...


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## kkapp (Jan 30, 2013)

Steve Neul said:


> Sorry, It's a Duracraft drill press I bought at Home Depot for $150.00.


Steve, I have that same drill press. It's 20+ yrs old & no problems other than burning the motor up while drilling 1" holes for a 20 ton press I was building. Can't really blame that on the tool. Last year I adapted a tread mill motor to it for slower & faster speeds. The only thing wrong with that is it does not have enough torque at my slowest speed. The thing about the drill press I don't like is the depth adjustment stop.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

kkapp said:


> Steve, I have that same drill press. It's 20+ yrs old & no problems other than burning the motor up while drilling 1" holes for a 20 ton press I was building. Can't really blame that on the tool. Last year I adapted a tread mill motor to it for slower & faster speeds. The only thing wrong with that is it does not have enough torque at my slowest speed. The thing about the drill press I don't like is the depth adjustment stop.


Out of curiosity what pulley arrangement do you have on the motor? I'd imagine that with a 3 inch or so on the motor and a 5 wish on the column you'd have all the torque you'd need, though you'd lose some speed on the high end


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## kkapp (Jan 30, 2013)

epicfail48 said:


> Out of curiosity what pulley arrangement do you have on the motor? I'd imagine that with a 3 inch or so on the motor and a 5 wish on the column you'd have all the torque you'd need, though you'd lose some speed on the high end


I used the same pulley's & bored out the motor on a lathe because the tread mill motor shaft is bigger in diameter. I'm using the smallest grove on motor & largest on spindle. I think the torque problem might the speed control that came off the tread mill.


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## kkapp (Jan 30, 2013)

epicfail48 said:


> Out of curiosity what pulley arrangement do you have on the motor? I'd imagine that with a 3 inch or so on the motor and a 5 wish on the column you'd have all the torque you'd need, though you'd lose some speed on the high end


Okay, I'll try again. I used the same pulley arrangement that came on the drill press. I bored out the pulley for the motor because the tread mill motor has a larger diameter shaft. I use the smallest grove on the motor & largest on the spindle.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

kkapp said:


> Steve, I have that same drill press. It's 20+ yrs old & no problems other than burning the motor up while drilling 1" holes for a 20 ton press I was building. Can't really blame that on the tool. Last year I adapted a tread mill motor to it for slower & faster speeds. The only thing wrong with that is it does not have enough torque at my slowest speed. The thing about the drill press I don't like is the depth adjustment stop.


The one I have has a depth stop. It's pretty simple though, just a bolt with two nuts on it.


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## gmcooter (Jan 22, 2015)

*vintage machines*

I have a 4" joiner that I've had for over 43 years. I t was old when I got it. It is a Rockwell. It was on the same stand and run by the same motor as the table saw. The table saw was a tilting table. It was broke up some so I sold it when dad had the auction when he sold the farm on moved away. the joiner still works great. I have a Craftsman lathe that I've had for about the same amount of time( over 43 years). I've had to replace the bearings on the lathe. They were still available at Sears. I still use the lathe a lot. I know the rule about pictures. I'll get some if anyone is interested.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

I like pictures.


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## kkapp (Jan 30, 2013)

gmcooter said:


> I have a 4" joiner that I've had for over 43 years. I t was old when I got it. It is a Rockwell. It was on the same stand and run by the same motor as the table saw. The table saw was a tilting table. It was broke up some so I sold it when dad had the auction when he sold the farm on moved away. the joiner still works great. I have a Craftsman lathe that I've had for about the same amount of time( over 43 years). I've had to replace the bearings on the lathe. They were still available at Sears. I still use the lathe a lot. I know the rule about pictures. I'll get some if anyone is interested.


gmcooter, I have that same table saw & jointer combo. It was my dad's also & set out in a barn up until we sold the farm. I think my dad got it in the late 50's or early 60's. My dad did carpentry & remodel work in between farming & bought this set from a neighbor in town where he was doing some work. When I got them they were all dirty & rusty even though they were covered in the barn. I took them apart totally, cleaned,replaced bearings & painted. I also removed the jointer from the saw stand & made a new stand for the jointer. They are great machines & serve my purpose. The only thing I don't like about the table saw is the tilt table.


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## gmcooter (Jan 22, 2015)

*tb saw*

I didn't like the tilting table either. A bit of after thought if I knew then what I know now I'd have kept it. It would probably be worth a lot more now than the few dollars I got for it the auction.


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## fareastern (Sep 19, 2014)

I have a Walker-Turner drill that has to be over seventy years old.I see no reason why it won't last another seventy years at least.Nothing wrong with old cast iron and you can usually bolt on replacements for the parts that wear.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

gmcooter said:


> I didn't like the tilting table either. A bit of after thought if I knew then what I know now I'd have kept it. It would probably be worth a lot more now than the few dollars I got for it the auction.


I don't know what they are worth, that is a personal issue to be sure, but there are 3 of those tilt table Craftsman saws for sale in this regions CL and 2 are selling for $25.00 and $35.00.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

I replaced the thin, light pulleys on both the motor and machine.
Mainly because the one on the motor was bent during removal to facilitate the new motor mount.

The machine is soooo silky smooth now.

I had some short lengths of Douglas Fir that are 1"x1" and wanted to see how thin I could slice the wood without damage.
I also wanted to see how "swoopy" I could get with the bit. In more technical terms, I wanted to see how tight a radius I could make.
Granted, this was a pretty thick blade, so it would only make a circle about the diameter of a half dollar.
For size reference, that's an SD card in the photo.
That's also a bath towel in the photo, which really shows how fine the cuts/kerf really is.

I'm pretty happy with this. I think this is pretty cool.


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## MSW_Shop (Jun 7, 2015)

Great to see those vintage items. Makes me want to break out the antiques from my dad's shop and take some images!
Mostly small hand power tools, nothing as grandeur as what you've shared.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Do it!
Start a thread and post pic of the all. We all like some good tool pron now and then. haha

I just bought a Jet tablesaw. It's not vintage at only five years old though.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

Hey Bob, this is what I have pulled off so far for 2015. I have more to add before the year is out.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Those are pretty cool. What's the unit in the middle?
Looks too small for a TS and too big for a jointer.


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

Bob, that is my 1930's Craftsman ( Walker-Turner) 8" Bench Saw. My dad and brother-inlaw picked it up for me in Kansas. Dad lives in Raytown. I paid $45 for it, so I was happy and it had the original fence. I hooked up a motor to it to listen to it . It ran smooth. I will get to working on the table top to remove the surface rust.


Bob in St. Louis said:


> Those are pretty cool. What's the unit in the middle?
> Looks too small for a TS and too big for a jointer.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Neat little unit, I think I need one now! haha


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I found it on CL. I am suprise you didn't see it. My Dad is in Kansas City ( Raytown) Dad was wondering why I was buying tools there. Can't hardly find goodies like this here, without a premium. It fit nicely under my RAS work Bench shelf. I also got a Demings Pump Motor 1/2 HP with it. Motor needs fixed. It is from 1941. I don't have enough room in my small workshop, so wife is going to let me have a new one built in a couple years. Hopefully have the pad poured next summer if everything works out. Going 20'x20'.
Once the new shop is built, I will gradually start working on my machines. I picked up the scroll saw for $50 from a gentleman that was 20 minutes from my dad.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

Cool. I was searching for STL only, and KC is on the other side if the state, that's probably why I didn't see it.
Congrats on the new shop, that's almost twice as big as mine is now! Wow!


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

LOL, Thank you for not seeing it. I jumped on it and the guy was nice enough to help me out. Wife want to turn the garage part of the house. Plus she is couponing and needs a place for her stash. My work shop is 8'x16' now. I told her that we needed to build a bigger shop for my toys and then she could have my old shop for her coupon stash. It took a lot of talking to get her on board for a new shop. I think how my father-inlaw did my shop, is why she is letting me have a new one built. Then I will have plenty of room to play. I am eyeing a 1949 Craftsman Band Saw right now. I told the guy when I got back from vacation, if it was still available, I would make him an offer.


Bob in St. Louis said:


> Cool. I was searching for STL only, and KC is on the other side if the state, that's probably why I didn't see it.
> Congrats on the new shop, that's almost twice as big as mine is now! Wow!


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I sent a guy an offer on this Band Saw.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

I see a LOT of fun in your future!


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## CherryWoodWorker (Nov 11, 2012)

I hope to, I can't explain it. I just love the old Craftsman. I would love to find a really good deal on a Craftsman Alien Planer.


Bob in St. Louis said:


> I see a LOT of fun in your future!


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## Bob in St. Louis (Feb 11, 2015)

I've never heard of that one, I had to Google it.
Awesome looking machine. "Yes", I need one of those too!


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