# Glue Selection



## Keuka51 (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm a beginner.

I'm going to be laminating some 3/4 Red Oak for work bench legs, spreaders, etc. The base will be 3/4 red oak sections, laminated to 3 inch thickness. I'm looking for advice on the correct glue for the laminations.

I picked up an old maple bench top that weighs over 300 pounds. Now I've got to build legs and substructure. My plan is to joint the legs and spreader using mortise and tenons. I will form the joints during the lamination process.

I've had mixed success with yellow glues but I was told that its the glue to use. I've had good success with Gorilla type glue but it's expensive and I've never subjected it to the stresses of work bench use. A long time ago, I used a powder/water mixture but I can't recall the name, ( Waterlock)? 

Anyway, I'd appreciate suggestions on two guestions:

1. Laminating Glue, I mentioned price but that is not a real facter. I'd much rather pay more and get the best. It would be a real pain to have my bench laminations fall apart in the middle of a project.

2. Would you glue and/or wedge the mortise and tenion joints. The tenions will be laminationed from two pieces of 3/4 oak so there will be a joint down the center. 
Option 1, I could wedge the center of the tenon from one direction and wedge between the tenon and mortise from the other dirction. 
Option 2, Glue the joint.

Any opinions and suggestions?

Thanks - Larry


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I would not use Gorilla Glue. If your M&T is a good fit, I would just use glue. TBII or TBIII for yellow glues. Or, a good urea-formaldehyde glue like "Plastic Resin Glue" (mixes with water), works good and it will give a slightly longer "open time".


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## Rory (Feb 24, 2010)

I like Titebond 3 for most applications. I am sure that there must be a good application for gorilla glue, but I have not found it yet. The most important things I found when glueing is a clean surface and good fit before applying the glue. No amount of foaming gorilla glue will make up for a poor fit or poor glue surface.

-Rory-


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## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

There is no need to use anything other carpenter glue whether it be Elmers or titebond. When sufaced and prepped properly the wood glue forms a joint stronger than the wood itself.


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## Colt W. Knight (Nov 29, 2009)

I do not like Gorilla glue. Expensive and messy.


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## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

I use titebond II for indoors.Itchy


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## ~WoodChuck~ (Jan 17, 2009)

I agree with colt. Regular elmers wood glue will work fine for all interior wood projects. Titebond 2 is used for exterior or interior use as it is water resistant so it is good for outdoor furniture. Titebond 2 is also used for things like cutting boards because it is food safe. So for these reasons titebond 2 is more money than the Elmers. Titebond 3 is made to hold up to to water more than the titebond 2, and is more money again. so for this project the cheaper stuff will be just fine.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Any of the "Extensible" formula glues from Franklin (TiteBond) will do the job. They are intended to be used for laminations. I have seen them in Woodcraft. (I don't know about Rockler)

I know that they come in a TB and a TB-II variety. I'm uncertain about the availability of TB-III. Due to creep, these glues are recommended for laminations.

As for pricing, they are about $1 more than the standard variety in quart sizes. I did not see any gallon sizes at Woodcraft.


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## Keuka51 (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks for the replys. Sounds like I'll go with Titebond II for the laminations.

Any suggestions on locking the mortise and tenion joints on the substructure? Would you wedge, glue or both? 

Can you wedge a joint too tight and squeeze the glue out of the joint? I assume Tite Bond II would also be the choice if the joints are glued. 

I live in an area where we have real winter. The humidity and moisture content will swing so I'm assuming the wood will move.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Keuka, yes you can squeeze glue out of a joint if you clamp it too tightly. If your mortise and tenon are correctly sized, you shouldn't really need much extra clamping force on them as the two pieces of the joint will be tight already. The glue just adds "permanence" to such a joint. As for the substructure, I'd personally wedge it as that also makes it more easily moved if you change locations, but I've moved more times in 10 years than most people do in a lifetime. If relocating isn't likely a factor for you, the wedges will also reduce (probably eliminate) the likelihood of broken joints due to humidity and temp changes and make them easier to repair if such things do happen.

For what it's worth, I bought my TBII at the big box stores by the gallon jug.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

*Btw*

I just got my latest issue of Woodsmith (#188) today. The picture in the lower left corner on page six shows a bottle of extensible TiteBond in the background. Once you see the packaging style it is easier to find.


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## mayday3374 (Feb 29, 2008)

*Titebond iii*

I recently built a wine cabinet for myself. i had to laminate pieces of maple to form the legs. i made a mistake in the glue up and the next day i attempted to separate the pieces with a hammer and chisel. The wood fibers tore apart on either side of the glue joint and i was amazed at how strong Titebond glue is. I use titebond iii for all my work. it is easy to work with, relatively cheap, cleans up easily, water resistant, non toxic, and safe for indirect contact with food, and stronger than i thought. i think it is a safe bet for most applications in woodworking


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## Ghidrah (Mar 2, 2010)

Rory,
There are many good reasons to use Gorilla glue. The 3 main reasons I use it, 
1. PT SYP, (any wood that has a tendency to warp)
2. Anything spending time outside and or staying out there permanently.
3. Anything going outside anywhere within a 1/2 mile from the ocean.

I use tite bond I, II and III all the time and in general (it/they) work fine. however I have had II and III part on me for all the reasons above. Some of them ended up very embarrassing for me considering the cost of the work. All items also received 2 coats of quality primer and paint with sanding in between coats.

I've never had Gorilla glue part on me, and because of its expansive nature I protect the material with good masking tape during glue up, most times painters tape isn't strong enough to stay together during peel off. Masking tears too but not as often


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

I use Gorilla Glue, the PU type, almost exclusively on plywood projects because of it's performance on end grain. Figuring that plywood is 50% endgrain.:smile:


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## Ingjr (Oct 25, 2009)

Titebond III for me, everything. :thumbsup:


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## Brian_Hinther (Sep 13, 2009)

You said you've had "mixed success" with yellow glues. You did clamp the pieces together, right? And the joints fit properly? If you met those conditions and applied a thin coat of glue to both sides of the joint, yellow glue should give you 100% success.


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

I dont understand the "mixed success" part of your experience. I would bet anything that there is human error involved. It is hard to screw up white or yellow glue. Either the glue was bad from age or exposed to high or below freezing temps in the shop while still in the bottle or the joints were poorly fitted.
It is hard to describe in words how a proper fit should feel, so I'll start out by saying that if the joint is loose enough to fall apart on it's own, it is way too loose. If you have to really hammer it in place, it is too tight. Somewhere in the middle is what you want. Snug but not too tight. A few light taps with a mallet to get the fit is also acceptable as is moderate pressure with clamps. If you have to crank down on the clamps, it is too tight.
If you have had better luck with Gorilla glue, then your joints are generally way too loose.


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## ~WoodChuck~ (Jan 17, 2009)

im with Tony and Brian. Out of curiosity i have conducted several tests by gluing pieces of wood together with 3 different types of glue. I made 2 samples for each type of glue and glued up all 6 layers in the same glue up so that i knew equal pressure was applied. after about 2 days I pulled them apart and tried to delaminate them with a chisel. I noticed that the titebond 2 and regular elmers both split in a fragmented line and was not a clean break. However on both gorilla glue ups, clean breaks. I followed instructions on bottle precisely. I will try experiment again and see what results I get


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