# Help a noob understand DC!



## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

I've been reading these threads and some articles about DC and am having a hard time rapping my head around it. If I live in a somewhat average climate state (mid 90s at most during the summer and low 20s during winter), can't I just work in my garage with the garage door opened or work out in my driveway? This may seem like a silly question but I have no experience with this yet and am trying to understand. All my portable tools (circular saw, ROS, router, etc) I can bring out to my driveway. Once I get machinery (bandsaw, table saw, etc) I can work in my garage with the doors open. It may not be as comfortable as having a DC, but I won't work in extreme heat or cold either. 

The only other issue I can think of is noise complaint by the neighbors, but how long am I really running these machines for; a few minutes at a time if that? And its not like I'll be running that at midnight or 5 in the morning.

I will certainly invest in some kind of shop vac or filter system for my garage, but I'm also on a budget like everyone else.

Someone help me understand this and why my noob mind is wrong?


----------



## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Running a planer and a jointer without dust collection will be a challenge, if not impossible.

The rest is just more clean-up time without collection.


----------



## Mark G (Dec 26, 2011)

It's mostly about your lungs.

I'm a noob too. I dabbled (badly) years back, but want to get more serious now. I am limited to a garage as are you. I made some shop stools a few weeks ago using my portable table saw and a dado kit and extremely fine dust was everywhere. I used a mask of course, but it takes a long time for the finest particles to settle so if you don't wear the mask continuously and for an hour or so after you stop cutting you won't have the protection you need over the long run.

No, one project ain't going to kill anybody. But our lungs aren't set up to dissolve fine wood fibers and petrochemicals used to bond plywood and what have you. Over the long haul it is bad.

Dust is also detrimental to my marriage. There is still a fine coating on garage items after these few weeks have gone by. Also, I'm alleged to have tracked dust into the house. I still maintain the dang dog did that. ("What? The dog died last year? Musta been the cat then.")

I guess working in the driveway would help a lot, but you should still wear a mask. And maybe a bullet proof vest in case the neighbors try to pick you off from their bedroom window for making so much noise. I figure if I'm in the garage they can't get a clean shot at me.


----------



## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Mark G said:


> It's mostly about your lungs.
> 
> I'm a noob too. I dabbled (badly) years back, but want to get more serious now. I am limited to a garage as are you. I made some shop stools a few weeks ago using my portable table saw and a dado kit and extremely fine dust was everywhere. I used a mask of course, but it takes a long time for the finest particles to settle so if you don't wear the mask continuously and for an hour or so after you stop cutting you won't have the protection you need over the long run.
> 
> ...


I always wonder if the dust/health thing is not over-rated?

My dad was a fine furniture builder, did it his whole life long, dust collection was only connected to his planer and jointer, being the only two machines which were not home made. He lived a healthy life up to his mid 80's and had no respiratory issues right to the end.
I do not remember seeing him ever wearing a mask.
You can see his work in the link below.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/dads-work-36647/


----------



## WolverineE (Apr 23, 2012)

> I always wonder if the dust/health thing is not over-rated?


No, it's not.

I'm sure that many of you can cite examples both ways. The reason I say it's not is because when it comes to the human body, one size does not fit all. I have friends that can't stop drinking once they have started. Me, I can stop after a half of a glass or even not drink for a year. Our bodies are very complex. And, while a particular dust may not affect one person that same dust could kill another. It's not just the nuisance dust. Some people are allergic to certain trees... including dust from those trees. If you get it in your lungs and you're allergic then it could really reek havoc! I got stung 20 times by yellow jackets a few years ago. If you ask me, it's not big deal. It hurt for an hour and that was it. But, a friend of mine got stung 1 time and nearly died on the way to the hospital... 

It's best to protect ourselves! :thumbsup:


----------



## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

Regarding DC, I see there seems to be 3 different pieces of equipment: a dust collector, an air filtering system and a shop vac. Are all 3 necessary, or does a good dust collector 'do it all'. Can a small/normal size shop (370 sqft) get away with just a filter system and a shop vac.

I saw this filter 



and it seems to be a good buy. So that takes care of all (or most of) the fine particles in the air, now I just need to clean up the chips and dust, and a shop vac should work fine for that, shouldn't it?

I guess I'm just overly confused on what equipment I need?


----------



## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Since you are an occasional woodworker and you don't have any stationary equipment, you don't have much need for a dust collector. When you do have a table saw, jointer, planer, router table, sander and so on, and you are converting rough sawn lumber to finished boards, making lots of dust and debris, running the equipment for hours, you will want to make your life easier and not have ankle deep sawdust everywhere and air borne debris blocking the light of day. 

Wood dust, all wood dust, is known to cause cancer, but like smoking, it will usually take many years of longterm exposure to do so, if it will. The most dangerous wood dust is the stuff that's so fine, you can't see it. There isn't any dust collection system that will remove all these fine particles and make a woodworking shop totally safe. Anyone that thinks a DC or shop vac will eliminate their exposure is uninformed. A properly fit respirator or self contained breathing apparatus, diligently worn at all times and correctly maintained is the only way to keep the fine dust out of your lungs. Dust collection just makes house keeping easier.

No dust collection system gets it all. I don't think there are statistics that link high incidences of lung cancer to woodworking or that it is prevalent enough to warrant concern for occasional workers. There will always be individuals that can be particularly sensitive and maybe reactive to exposure of certain things at any level. It would be prudent for all woodworkers to protect themselves when creating air borne dust. A shop vac attached to portable power tools, a dust collector attached to stationary power tools and an ambient air filter in the shop will greatly reduce dust but they will never get it all. Capture as much as you can at the source and wear personal protective gear.


----------



## Mark G (Dec 26, 2011)

If you want technical information you can read this. The links under "Hazard Recognition" will keep you busy for a while.

Regardless of all that I still say it is hazardous to your marriage.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

unknowneinstein said:


> Regarding DC, I see there seems to be 3 different pieces of equipment: a dust collector, an air filtering system and a shop vac. Are all 3 necessary, or does a good dust collector 'do it all'. Can a small/normal size shop (370 sqft) get away with just a filter system and a shop vac.
> 
> I guess I'm just overly confused on what equipment I need?


Dust vs chips Dust is smaller, chips are bigger, sanding and sawing either with a bandsaw or tablesaw creates dust, planing and jointing creates chips. It about particle size really. 
A shop vac can keep up with a tablesaw, bandsaw or router table, but not a jointer or planer...unless you want to empty the barrel and clean the filter often. 
Most all woodworking creates airborne dust, very fine particles that you can see in the daylight and superfine ones you can see at night with a flashlight. You need to run the air from the shop which is filled with these particles through a filter continuously to catch as many as possible. A box fan with a furnace filter taped to the intake side will be better than none at all, but not as efficient as a commercial or home built multi-stage air filtration unit. The light weight face masks are also better than none at all, but not as efficient as cartridge type headgear. 

Your home furnace ductwork will draw fine dust in if the return air ducts if not taped and sealed, if they run through the workshop in the basement. This will clog the furnace filter sooner than necessary and you lose efficiency. Check it more often.

For a small shop like yours I would get or build a Dust Deputy to put in line with a good shop vac, Rigids are most quiet... and wear a face mask or headgear cartridge filter.  bill


----------



## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

You are on a good path to getting up to speed here. I was in your position not long ago. Just relying on the open garage doors will leave fine dust everywhere. The Jet air filter you linked to would help with that. As others have said start by catching it at the source. I started by getting a good shop vac then a Dust Right Vortex from Rockler. This is similar to the Dust Deputy that Bill mentioned. You can also build your own Thien baffle (search the forum). Eventually you will need a larger dust collector for the big tools discussed. For now I'd start with the shop vac set up and air filter.


----------



## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks Bill and Shop Dad. Budget permitting I think I am going to get the Jet filter and a shop vac, and once I get a little more money I'll add in the Dust Deputy. I just hate to spend all my money on dust collection and be left with no money to buy tools to even produce the dust haha.


----------



## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

Good plan. If you want to practice your skills on a good shop project build one of these for your shop vac and forget the Dust Deputy:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/forget-dust-deputy-27235/

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/my-shop-vac-dust-collection-combo-36491/

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/building-thien-cyclone-garbage-can-separator-21983/#post172535

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/thein-baffle-build-you-tube-35374/

Lots more on this forum and the web. :thumbsup:


----------



## unknowneinstein (Apr 20, 2012)

So I looked through the plans and it definitely looks easy enough to build. I'm just confused on how it physically works. So you connect your shop vac to the barrel/bucket via a hose and then have another hose which you use to vacuum the dust/chips up. How does the barrel serve as a seperator between the dust and chips? Am I missing something?


----------



## Shop Dad (May 3, 2011)

The design creates a cyclone action spining the chips and dust around the outside until they drop through to the lower collection area. Air is drawn out through the top center. It's pretty effective leaving just a bit of find dust to get to your shop vac.

Edit: Check the video here to see one in action: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/my-thien-baffle-28115/


----------



## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

It must be nice to have the room to have a Dust Collector. Since I don't I will just put up with a continually dusty garage. And at 75 I do not worry too much about my lungs.

George


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Actually George, dust collection doesn't need to take up much space. Cart makes it pretty mobile too.

As far as shop built vs. the commercial version of the Dust Deputy, I think the $40 is pretty well spent. Kenbo presented a pretty impressive thread on the capabilities of the shop built version but I still believe the Oneida is superior... Either is superior to the little "cyclone" lids that seem to sell from about $15 at Harbor Freight on up. I haven't done any definitive testing as Kenbo did but while using one of those cyclone lids from Peachtree, I was emptying the bucket about every two weeks and changing filter bags about once a month with a couple of hours a day usage. I put in the Oneida, used a "high efficiency" bag (recommended for drywall dust) and a HEPA cartridge filter. That resulted in emptying the bucket at least once a week and I haven't needed a vac bag in about 15 months. At about $7+/bag, that Oneida has paid for itself many times over. Shop still isn't dust free because I can't, or haven't been able to, catch everything but I'm pretty confident that what I do catch, I manage to keep. :smile:


----------



## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Once you get your big machines, and if you're interested in a decent dust collector that doesn't break the bank, check out the Harbor Freight 2 HP. A lot of Harbor Freight stuff is junk, but there are a few gems hidden there. It's $150 if you have the coupon in Wood magazine, or several other woodworking type mags. Here's a review I did on it not too long ago. Take a look, and keep it in mind for the future.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f24/harbor-freight-2-hp-dust-collector-31876/

--Matt


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

haugerm said:


> Once you get your big machines, and if you're interested in a decent dust collector that doesn't break the bank, check out the Harbor Freight 2 HP. A lot of Harbor Freight stuff is junk, but there are a few gems hidden there. It's $150 if you have the coupon in Wood magazine, or several other woodworking type mags. Here's a review I did on it not too long ago. Take a look, and keep it in mind for the future.
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f24/harbor-freight-2-hp-dust-collector-31876/
> 
> --Matt


Hi Matt - that Harbor Freight DC is a good deal, unfortunately, all the Harbor Freight dust collectors only filter down to the 5 micron range. Target should be less than 1 micron. Therefore, buying the collector is only the first step, upgrading the filtration could, quite possibly, drive the total cost up near the Oneida or Penn State systems.:smile:


----------



## haugerm (Nov 19, 2009)

Well, a HF 2hp with an aftermarket Wynn 1 micron filter runs about $250. The Penn state industries 1 1/2 HP (probably a fairer comparison than the PS 2 HP) runs about $480. That's a $230 difference. I think that's pretty significant. 

Ok, the Penn state 1 1/2 HP appears to currently be on sale for $400. But still.:smile:

--Matt


----------



## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

haugerm said:


> Well, a HF 2hp with an aftermarket Wynn 1 micron filter runs about $250. The Penn state industries 1 1/2 HP (probably a fairer comparison than the PS 2 HP) runs about $480. That's a $230 difference. I think that's pretty significant.
> 
> Ok, the Penn state 1 1/2 HP appears to currently be on sale for $400. But still.:smile:
> 
> --Matt


Won't dispute you on that, I haven't got physical nor electrical space so I haven't been actively shopping the larger dust collectors. Was just trying to point out that just having a big noisy vacuum cleaner around doesn't necessarily translate to good dust collection.
I was estimating based on what a friend of mine spent on his Penn State system last fall, around $1500 I think, but that included a bunch of duct work and fittings.:smile:
Edit - Actually since you have me looking at it.. Penn State 2HP with 1 micron bag is only $285 at the moment.
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC2000B.html
I didn't bother checking the cost of the Wynn filter.


----------

