# Re-finishing Large Bay Window - NEED HELP



## Wood_Chip (Jan 15, 2014)

Hi all. I have a large bay window with a shelf that is in need of refinishing. The previous owners had a small dog that liked to scratch it up and they also watered plants on it that stained the wood. I’m looking for a couple recommendations…

(1) What would be the best type of power sander to use to refinish it, belt, orbital, finish, etc.? It’s pine.

(2) Once sanded, what should I seal it with regular polyurethane, expoxy resin, etc? I’d like the most durable finish I can get so I’ll only have to do it once. It’ll probably have photos placed on it, candles, and whatever else my other half puts there.

Any other tips on this project would be great. Thanks!


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## bauerbach (Mar 25, 2012)

belt sander would be quick, but thats not really the hard part, its the edges that will require the attention. One of those little mouse sander deals might work well.

then you have to match the stain color. I would use poly, a few coats should last a long long time.

any chance it would be easier to remove it and replace the wood with some oak or maple?


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## Paarker (Mar 20, 2013)

That's probably plywood and I wouldn't want to sand it. You might try. Another layer of veneer instead.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

I am about to tackle the exact same issue as you are. However mine is in much worse condition. The veneer has already split and lifted and I don't have any idea on how I will do this. 
I have never worked with veneer before, so I am hesitant to start peeling away the veneer and replacing it, but that seems to be the only proper way to fix mine. I'm wondering if it would be better to use the peel and stick or iron on veneer for this. 

Your window looks in much better shap than mine, so I think I might try to go the sanding route but not with a belt sander. You can see in my pic, how thin the top layer of veneer is. 

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. 

Jim


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You should never start a refinishing project with a sander. The old finish needs to be chemically stripped off with a paint and varnish remover. Sanding only removes what is on the surface and doesn't get what has penetrated into the wood. Then when you come back with the new finish it doesn't stain right. The wood still being sealed with the old finish in spots will stain blotchy having places that won't accept the stain. Since you have a wood floor below it that makes it harder but not impossible. Mask off the floor below the window with some heavy plastic and then put a couple layers of cardboard over the plastic and perhaps some newspaper too. When any remover drips don't ignore it, pick up the paper and put down some clean paper. Use a paste remover like Kleen Strip and brush a liberal amount of remover on the seat and allow it to soak for about 30 minutes applying more remover to any spots that dry. Then scrape off the old finish with a broad knife and as quick as possible wash the residue that is left with lacquer thinner. Be careful not to get the remover and thinner off the vertical woodwork. If you do wipe it off with a dry cloth as quick as possible. It will screw up the sheen but that is an easy fix. 

Any water spots it is a good idea to treat with oxalic acid. Its a type bleach that is good for stains like that. 

Once you get the old finish off then sand the seat with an orbital sander and if you have on use a mouse type sander to get up in the corners. 

Woodchip, I'm not sure yours is pine. It looks more like ash to me. JG2259's is pine. When you get everything sanded it would be a good idea to get some wood the same type as your window seat to practice with the stain color rather than tinkering on the seat. I believe woodchip's seat just has a clear finish on it that has clouded and yellowed over time. This is going to take quite a bit of tinkering to achieve the same appearance. It probably will need some yellow oxide tinting color added to the finish rather than putting any stain on the wood first however it might take a little of both. JG2259's seat is a simple stain and clearcoat. Try minwax provincial stain and see if that matches the color. For both projects a interior polyurethane would be a good finish. It's waterproof and has the hardness needed for the abuse a window seat gets. 

Post some pictures of your test pieces.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Steve. Did you notice the piece of veneer missing on mine where it split? I am afraid i will have to re-veneer the whole thing. What do you think?
I stained it with minwax golden oak and topcoated with minwax satin poly when it was new. But from watering plants and not closing widows when it storms. This is the type of damage you get


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Woodchip, I can't tell if yours is solid or plywood. It almost looks like plywood and its starting to crack and peel like mine did. But it doesnt look that bad yet


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

jg2259 said:


> Steve. Did you notice the piece of veneer missing on mine where it split? I am afraid i will have to re-veneer the whole thing. What do you think?
> I stained it with minwax golden oak and topcoated with minwax satin poly when it was new. But from watering plants and not closing widows when it storms. This is the type of damage you get


I'm sorry I didn't notice the missing veneer. Rather than trying to re-veneer the seat I believe I would go over it with something thin like an artist spatula and work glue under what is left and iron it down. Then were it is missing no bigger than it is I would probably fill with wood putty and during the finishing process draw some grain on the putty with a graining pen. The pen is like a brown sharpie. The minwax poly isn't a very good brand of finish. I think you would get better service from Sherwin Williams oil based interior polyurethane. Also with any finish and water, the glossier finish you use will last longer. The flattening agents in finishes that make satin also make the finish more porous. If satin is necessary it would be better to put a couple coats of gloss polyurethane on first and then use the satin polyurethane last. That way the top layer is prone to fail early which could be scuff sanded and topcoated rather than stripping and refinishing.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Steve. I put that stain and poly on over 30 y


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Over 30 years ago before I knew any better. I now use General Finishes Armor Seal and after I use up the remaining cans of Minwax oil stains, I am going to only use dyes and gel stains.
But I think for this, I will do what you recommend and hope for the best. Can't be any worse than it is right now


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Keep in mind dyes are not as colorfast as oil stains and if the window is very sunny it will fade pretty quickly on you. Also a gel stain is more like paint so when the finish fails it will leave really white patches where it comes off.


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## Wood_Chip (Jan 15, 2014)

I don’t think removing the wood is a good option as it’s built into the window frame and I don’t want to tear anything apart if I don’t have it.

jg2259 – Mine is plywood as well but not cracked and peeling bad (yet).

Steve Neul – Thank you for all the very helpful information. 

I have a good game plan now, thank you guys. Have you guys ever heard of a product called “Bristol Finish”? It’s not cheap but if it’ll last for a really long time maybe worth it. It’s made for marine applications. Similar products are Interlux Perfection or Nautithane. Would these be overkill? I'd like to do it once and never have to worry about it again.

If not Minwax Poly, what brand and type do you recommend? And how many coats would you recommend?

Thanks again for all the very helpful information.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

No, you would end up having to replace the wood if you tried to remove it. It seems like everyone that installs millwork uses a lot of huge nails installing it so you end up tearing up the wood trying to take it off. 

As far as the finish I would use Sherwin Williams interior oil based polyurethane. If you are going for a satin sheen it would be better if you put two coats of gloss polyurethane on and then one coat of satin on last. Unless you thin it three coats should be sufficient.


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## Wood_Chip (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Steve. I just ordered some interior paint for a bathroom project from SW so I'll have to check out what they have for oil based polyurethanes when I go pick it up. I checked out their website and it looks like they have many different options...

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/wood-classics-polyurethane-varnish/?referringCategory=interior-paint-coatings/wood-stains-sealers-clear-topcoats/&N=2025522611%2B1885678610

http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26347:product-6890

I'll have to speak with the sales rep and see what product they most recommend. I'll plan on 3 coats. Why start with gloss? Is it a better sealer than semi-gloss or satin?

And stay away from MinWax and other brands like General Finishes right?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

In my opinion the wood classics poly would be better for what you are doing. 

With a polyurethane finish each layer is independent from each other. A gloss finish is harder and more water resistant than a semi-gloss and especially a satin finish. When they make a satin finish they put a flattening agent in the finish that is like talcum powder. The more of this powder that is put in the finish the flatter it is and the more porous it is to water so if you leave the satin until last the gloss layers will protect wood from any moisture that might penetrate the satin layer. Another benefit is using gloss under satin is the more coats of satin you put on the cloudier it gets so it's better to limit it to one coat.


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

in both cases i wold start with a sharp cabiet scraper, then finish off with a block sander. if the surface was not what i felt was stain grade, i would re-veneer.

i had one similar that i only added 1/4" oak plywood, carefully fitted.


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## jg2259 (Oct 28, 2011)

Tim, did you remove the damaged veneer before you put the oak plywood on? 
Or did you put the oak plywood on top of the damaged veneer?


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

on top. of course 1/4" ply is more like 3/16" now. they had square edges to meet with, so it went in unnoticeable except for the front edge which i edge banded witha strip of wood.


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## Wood_Chip (Jan 15, 2014)

I finally had a chance to stop into a Sherwin Williams store this morning. I talked with the assistant manager of the store and showed him photos of the window seat and he recommended going with their 1 part spar urethane (Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane) product to finish it.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/helmsman-spar-urethane/?referringCategory=interior-paint-coatings/wood-stains-sealers-clear-topcoats/&N=2025522611

I know other folks have recommended just going with their Wood Classics Polyurethane Varnish 

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/wood-classics-polyurethane-varnish/?referringCategory=interior-paint-coatings/wood-stains-sealers-clear-topcoats/&N=2025522611

Does anybody have any experience with the Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane? I’m having a hard time deciding which of these 2 finishes to use. I just want the best, most durable, longterm finish that would stand up to sunlight, some water spills from watering plants, and normal wear and tear.

Sherwin Williams also has an entire line of Marine Based Urethanes that come in 1 or 2 part finishes that are supposed to be extremely durable.

Thanks for any feedback.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The Helmsman Spar Urethane isn't very good. Their interior poly would work better or if you want a spar varnish find a marine grade spar. The best is Epifanes but a bit expensive. Another one I use often is Cabot Spar Varnish. It's roughly the same price as the Helmsman but is a marine grade spar.


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## Wood_Chip (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Steve. Just out of curiosity why the regular Wood Classics poly over the Helmsman Spar?

When you say Epifanes, what specific product of theirs would you say would be best? Their Clear Varnish? Is that a spar urethane? Is a spar urethane the same as a spar varnish?

Any specific reasons to us a spar over a poly or vise versa? As you can tell, I don't know much about these types of finishes.

Thanks.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

A spar varnish is formulated to be a little rubbery. It was originally developed to use on the masts of tall ships because the mast was constantly bending and the harder varnish would crack and flake off. Then people figured out it was a good product to use on wood outdoors because the wood was subjected to expanding and contracting from going from the hot sun of summer to the freezing cold of winter. Because a spar varnish is made flexible it is softer and easier to scratch and damage than an interior polyurethane. For interior use where it is climate controlled the wood isn't subjected to the extreme expanding and contracting outdoor wood does. Therefore you can use a harder finish which is more resistant to damage. Even though your window seat may sit in the direct sun from time to time it still doesn't have enough wood movement to damage the finish. 

If you wish to use a spar varnish the Epifanes Clear Varnish is as good as it gets. It's often used to finish boats. It is a marine grade spar varnish.


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