# Opinions please



## bandman (Jan 15, 2009)

Am planning on going from portable dust collectors to a stationary system for my whole shop. I have approx. a 2200sf shop with the usual power tools but they will not be used by more than one person at a time. I am allowing around $1200 for the collector alone (no piping included in this price) what are your ideas as far as brand goes? I only have single phase in the shop.

Thanks,

Bandman


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Wow I wish I had that budget. :laughing:

I would think at that price any of the big brands would be good. Most people on here are looking to get one for a fraction of that cost.

I would get the biggest one with the best suction you can. Anything that big should have a canister filter if not stay away.

When you run the pipe I would again run the largest pipe you system can support and reduce down before each tool.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

^^^^^ Yeah... what he said ^^^^^^

I would add that for that money, you should be able to get some sort of cyclone or separator...... IOW something that will separate the chips and dust from the air.... That will make sure to make your system more efficient. 

Fabian


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## jgt1942 (Mar 15, 2012)

Take a look at http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm and http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm - plan to spend a lot of time on each then create your plan.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I had a lot of different thoughts, but to keep to your question: I ran a Penn State for about 9 years and it was a great collector. I now have an Oneida, and while I don't like it's design, it is extremely well made. But at their heart, DC's are simple machines(cyclones can be more complicated); your talking basically about a blower that filters the air. So you want adequate air movement to meet your expectations, and filtration to separate the dust from the air stream. With that in mind, compare the brands based on price, but be sure your comparing apples to apples (for example: not all 2 HP motors are actually 2 HP). Your expectations also play a big role in this. Some guys only want to avoid sweeping the floor, others want to capture every spec of the finest dust. That's one of the reasons opinions vary so widely, and knowing where your are on the spread will help keep you from being disappointed with whatever unit you buy. A shop as big as yours may require much longer duct runs (more drag on the air) than the rest of us have which also requires some thought. Rather than start with a brand, I would suggest you start with a requirement, the amount of air you want....and don't rely on the manufacturer's claims, they are often about as real as the 6.5 HP your shop vac has.


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## Shavings (May 27, 2012)

Wow!! 2200 S.F. for a shop! I would be in heaven with all that space.
My shop is about 1/4 of that. 
I have a Grizzly 2HP 220VAC dust collector with 2 4" ports and it works fine in my size shop. 
Maybe check out Grizzly.com for the size collector that would be sufficient for your new shop.


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## Rlbtn4171 (Feb 11, 2011)

Don't know where you are located, but I have a brand new JDS I am trying to sell for 150.00.
I am in Athens, TN


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

If your putting in a central system it should include a cyclone separator. You can mount it up near the ceiling and not really use up much of your foot print. I just recently reinstalled mine in my new shop last week. Still working on the ben for the shavings.

With a cyclone you will keep from sending chips through the impeller blades and for systems like mine, it will only allow the fine dust to collect on the filter fabric. This keeps the air flow up as the ben fills with saw dust. This system also allows for custom sized collector ben so you don't have to rely on using a barrel or small trash can. I'm building a larger ben 2'X2'X5,. 









Also, you can mass a fortune in pipe fittings and this is not the place to scrimp. Have a trunk line plan in advance.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.


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## DaveTTC (May 25, 2012)

Had to re-read that, thought you said 22,000 square feet. Still 2,200 is quite something. Hope you post some pics of your system once done. Mine will hopefully be about 1/2 as big ad yours.

Dave The Turning Cowboy


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## Scot H (Jun 2, 2012)

I have a 1500sq ft shop and I'm running a 3 HP grizzly DC with a cyclone separator I bought off ebay for $169 (new). I've almost completed all the ducting But so far no problems at all with the table saw, 12" jointer or 13" planer.
I'll try to post some pics of my setup tonight.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

If I were buying a new unit I would look at the cyclones. This should be less work for some poor person who gets the job to empty and clean a normal dust collector.

I have a Jet 1 1/2HP collector with the canister on the top. Decent airflow and suction, but I REALLY hate to clean the canister. The paddle does not do much for the dust which accumulates in the pleats of the filter.

I just noticed Delta has come out with a compact cyclone. This place comes in your budget. Full price is $1300.

I have not seen any reviews, perhaps due to being new. I looked this over at a local Woodcraft store. Easy to empty the bin.

Delta do not provide the performance curves so not able to see how flow and suction fall off with pressure drop.

http://http://www.performancetoolce...1-1-2-hp-portable-cyclone-dust-collector.html


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## jgt1942 (Mar 15, 2012)

bandman - I highly suggest that you download Google SketchUp (free) and use it to layout your workshop. I've been using it for about 4 months and find it super helpful. Often you can find an existing model of something (great time saver) that you can use in your drawing. It does take a bit of learning but you do not have to be an expert to get great value from it.
I've created drawing for several of my wood projects - workshop, workbench, planer stand, sharpening stand, Dewalt Saw with out feed, jigs to name a few. Following is my current plan for my workshop which of course is a work in progress.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Fred Hargis said:


> I now have an Oneida, and while I don't like it's design, it is extremely well made.


Hi Fred, can you explain this a little more? especially the percieved design issues. :huh:


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

I had mentioned this in anpther post; the Oneida is built like a tank: heavy metal, good welds, just good craftsmanship. But if you believe the Pentz testing data (I do) the Oneida design is about as far removed from it as you can get. The body dimensions, proper neutral vane, squared sloped inlet, and the internal air ramp are all very important at separating the very finest of dust particles from the air stream before it gets to the filter. The Oneida separates 99% (their number) and my unit gets 98.4% I call that equal. But that's not high enough for me, so I feel the Pentz design is the proper way to build a cyclone. I also feel Oneida (rightfully) realizes that to build their unit with the Pentz criteria would cost 3X as much, and no one would buy it....not for the extra 1% of separation., so they do a slightly less efficient and more affordable design that most of their customers want. But the way I see it, that missing 1% causes me to clean my filter more than I want, and risk damage to an expensive part of the unit. My first cyclone was a shop built unit I made using the old Wood magazine plans, and I think it separated as good as my Oneida.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Thanks for the explanation Fred. My opinion was that Oneida is about as good as it gets in an affordable commercial unit and, I think, you sorta validated that. Or, is it more accurate that Oneida is just one of many cyclone units that are all about equal but suboptimized for cost considerations?


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

I have the 2.5HP Onieda and I am very pleased with it. I finally vented it outside to reduce the noise and it is very quiet now. Suction is always at full because there is no filter on it.


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

Just going on your square footage I think you may want to rethink your budget, to do it once and do it right I think you need a 5hp cyclone. An off the shelf new solution is going to be over that budget BUT it isn't totally killing to.


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## Beckerkumm (Jun 4, 2012)

You can also look at a used commercial cyclone like Torit, Aget, or Sternvent. A 5 hp system will likely run 3 phase but I would argue that is the best way to go. A VFD can vary the fan speed to optimise the cfm given the ductwork you use and the softstart feature saves startup amps and is much easier on the motor vs starting and stopping a big system. The clearvue will separate fine dust better if you have a drum or belt sander. You also need to decide on filter media as there are lots of types with different efficiencies and different resistance. You don't want to scrimp on filter area but in my opinion you can also go overboard in trying to achieve hepa like filtration. I've changed systems enough to accumulate several blowers and motors so do your homework and avoid changing it out again in three years. Dave


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

jschaben said:


> Thanks for the explanation Fred. My opinion was that Oneida is about as good as it gets in an affordable commercial unit and, I think, you sorta validated that. Or, is it more accurate that Oneida is just one of many cyclone units that are all about equal but suboptimized for cost considerations?



That would be my opinion, they are all sub optimized for cost considerations. Some Grizzly models seem to have the Pentz criteria built in, and they remain competitive price wise, but I don't believe anyone else in the consumer market has done so (CV is an exception, it's totally the Pentz design). It's my belief that even the CV is sub optimized with the polycarbonate construction (I don't see that as a disadvantage, but many do). BTW, someone else pointed out that they vent their Oneida outside...if you are able to do this, the separation issueisn't really an issue. Like he said, you get full flow all the time and never clean the filter.


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## Rlbtn4171 (Feb 11, 2011)

This has gotten my curiosity up. How much decrease in noise does one get by venting their cyclone to the outside.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

I've heard good things about the 2.5HP Penn State Tempest S. Only bad review I have seen on it was from some idiot that necked it all the way down to 2.5" to use it as a giant shop vac and then got surprised when it wasn't working as he expected... Price is right, and capacity is right at what you are looking for...

Mind you, the MFG recommends it for shops up to 2500 sq/ft. I have an under 500 sq/ft shop and want one in there to replace my HF 2HP DC...


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## Leo G (Oct 16, 2006)

Rlbtn4171 said:


> This has gotten my curiosity up. How much decrease in noise does one get by venting their cyclone to the outside.


With my Oneida 2.5HP Dust Gorilla it was substantial. Went from having a hard time talking at normal levels to someone to being able to stand right next the collector and talk in a normal voice without having any problems hearing everything they said.

Plus the suction never goes away and you can't stuff the filter by accident.


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## Rlbtn4171 (Feb 11, 2011)

That's really interesting. Do you have to open windows or doors to compensate for airflow??


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

not sure if there is a direct relationship between shop square footage and dust collector cfm ratings, other than you could get more equipment into a larger shop. I believe the best approach would be to establish the equipment list you expect to use, and add some percentage for expansion. gather the cfm requirements for all of the equipment, and the dc system should be able to handle that total. If you choose to use gates on the lesser used equipment, than you can calculate for a smaller capacity cfm unit. after these calculations, you can look into (recommended) cyclones, noise levels, etc. jmho


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## Zero99999 (Aug 22, 2011)

Hey! Thats my Ridgid oscillating spindle sander model you have in your sketchup model! Good decision! Lol


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## rattletrap (Dec 17, 2012)

*Rattletrap*



Fred Hargis said:


> That would be my opinion, they are all sub optimized for cost considerations. Some Grizzly models seem to have the Pentz criteria built in, and they remain competitive price wise, but I don't believe anyone else in the consumer market has done so (CV is an exception, it's totally the Pentz design). It's my belief that even the CV is sub optimized with the polycarbonate construction (I don't see that as a disadvantage, but many do). BTW, someone else pointed out that they vent their Oneida outside...if you are able to do this, the separation issueisn't really an issue. Like he said, you get full flow all the time and never clean the filter.


Fred do you know which Grizzly models best approach the Pentz design?


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