# Help identifying my new lathe



## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Hope it's OK to post this here. Picked a bunch of stuff up at a yard sale for $35 bucks, including this old craftsman 9x30 lathe. But I'm not positive which one it is. It's a dead ringer for the one made in 1935-36  in the very bottom picture. So what do you think? Is that it? Is it really that old? 

The motor. It's sitting up on the bench but not the original unfortunately. Only has a three speed pulley on it. The lathe has a 4 speed pulley. Oh well, it'll work. Oh yes, comes with the original belt too!



































Thank you lathe.co.uk














1935 to 1936 Craftsman 9-inch lathe. 
Unlike the earlier 9-inch lathe, with its ball-bearing headstock, this model made do with cheap "Oilite" porous-bronze bushes. However, the spindle was bored hollow, took a number 1 Morse-taper centre and could be fitted with a faceplate on its left-hand end for large-capacity bowl turning.. Unfortunately, the ring of 60 indexing holes on the headstock pulley was missing and the bed had lost its mid-way foot. However (and rather surprisingly) the tailstock could be set over for taper turning and a limited range of accessories - a compound slide rest, 3 and 4 jaw chucks and a fixed steady - was available to convert it into a metal-turning lathe.
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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Wouldn't let me add this so... Anybody know where a guy could find the operating instructions and parts list for this thing? Also, think I can get a drill chuck for it? Different heads? Just asking.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Well, the original belt definitely makes the whole thing worth the $35. :laughing: I see that they got the belt limbered up for you.

I see enough differences between yours and the one in the illustration that makes me think that it isn't the same model although it is very close. Note the difference in the C in Craftsman, the rounded corners on the headstock of yours vs. the angular shape of the one in the illustration, and other similar small details.

I think that it could be refurbished to usable conditions, but there are a few caveats. It might cost nearly as much as a new mini late with larger swing to get it going unless you do nothing but get a new belt (yes, I'm afraid that that one is past its prime) and sand off some of the rust. It won't have the same capability as as a new one without spending even more to update it the same features as a new lathe would have.

Back then, lathes were built for spindle turning only ... things like chair and table legs, so the minimum speed is too fast for turning bowls and platters and vases.

The biggest disadvantage of that old Craftsman is that it doesn't have a Morse taper in the tailstock so that you could install a live center. Years ago ... as recently as the 1960's, dead centers were the norm. The dead centers have a small cup where you are supposed to put some beef tallow (or bacon fat) to lubricate the wood so that it doesn't catch fire while turning. If you could have a good buddy machinist make a Morse taper quill to replace the piece that is currently in the tailstock, that would be a big improvement.

The other thing is the oddball thread size on the spindle. If you could find an adapter to change it to a 1 X 8 thread, that would make it more compatible with today's faceplates and chucks.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

This the closest model I could find. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=1766


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

bstarkey said:


> Wouldn't let me add this so... Anybody know where a guy could find the operating instructions and parts list for this thing? Also, think I can get a drill chuck for it? Different heads? Just asking.


Did you check out the Vintage Machinery website (formerly Old Woodworking Machinery): *http://vintagemachinery.org/*?

A drill chuck is not a problem ... just get a drill chuck that has a Jacobs Taper #6 and then get a JT6 to MT1 (Morse Taper #1) adapter to plug it into the headstock. However, I suspect that the Morse taper socket in the spindle is probably rusted up so badly that it might need to be remachined to be worth using.

Can you find a model number anywhere on the lathe?


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Bill Boehme said:


> Well, the original belt definitely makes the whole thing worth the $35. :laughing: I see that they got the belt limbered up for you.
> 
> Ha, Ha, Ha...
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply Bill. Fills in a lot of gaps. I doubt if I'll do more that get it running as this is my learning lathe so... And besides, I need some legs for an old drop leaf table I've got so I'll just get out the bacon grease and...


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Bill Boehme said:


> Did you check out the Vintage Machinery website (formerly Old Woodworking Machinery): *http://vintagemachinery.org/*?
> 
> Nothing there but thanks.
> 
> ...


I've looked all over but I don't see any. Just says Craftsman 9" on the side.

Edit: I just went out and looked real close but no model number. The only numbers are on the tailstock (L2-5 and the drive pulley L2-3) Haven't looked on the very bottom yet but... I pulled both spindles and they were clean. No rust except on the outside ends. They cleaned up nicely with the wire wheel. I disassembled the headstock and it does have the "oilite" bronze bushings. Everything looks good though. A little oil and she'll be ready to go. Ummm, right after I mount the motor and get a new belt.


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Steve Neul said:


> This the closest model I could find. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=1766


Thank you Steve Neul. I really appreciate you looking that up. It is really close. A smidge newer I think. Mine doesn't have the belt guard (too bad there) and the tailstock is a touch different but really, really close. Yeah but ummm, what's with all the prices blotted out!?! :laughing:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

bstarkey said:


> Thank you Steve Neul. I really appreciate you looking that up. It is really close. A smidge newer I think. Mine doesn't have the belt guard (too bad there) and the tailstock is a touch different but really, really close. Yeah but ummm, what's with all the prices blotted out!?! :laughing:


That one was suppose to be a 1938 model. Who knows about the prices being marked out. That might have been done 70 years ago.


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## Maylar (Sep 3, 2013)

Looks to me that the tail stock may have a Morse taper... the hole through the dead center would be for breaking the taper with a pry bar. Same for the spur drive on the headstock spindle. Smack the center out with a drift and mallet and see what you have there. Having Morse tapers at both ends makes a lathe much more desirable.


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Maylar said:


> Looks to me that the tail stock may have a Morse taper... the hole through the dead center would be for breaking the taper with a pry bar. Same for the spur drive on the headstock spindle. Smack the center out with a drift and mallet and see what you have there. Having Morse tapers at both ends makes a lathe much more desirable.


Thanks Maylar. Pulled both spindles (good condition, no rust) and they do indeed have Morse tapers. Good news there.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Yes, I looked at the illustrated parts list and it does show a dead center (AKA, cup center) with what appears to be a #1 Morse taper. The best thing to do is toss the dead center (along with the bacon grease) and get a live center. Have you determined the thread size on the spindle nose? Oneway Manufacturing sells a large number of different thread inserts for their various four jaw scroll chucks. Another option is to get an adapter from Best Wood Tools to convert the thread size to 1X8.


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Bill Boehme said:


> Yes, I looked at the illustrated parts list and it does show a dead center (AKA, cup center) with what appears to be a #1 Morse taper. The best thing to do is toss the dead center (along with the bacon grease) and get a live center. Have you determined the thread size on the spindle nose? Oneway Manufacturing sells a large number of different thread inserts for their various four jaw scroll chucks. Another option is to get an adapter from Best Wood Tools to convert the thread size to 1X8.


Haven't looked at the threads yet but was heading out to the garage now so will let you know.

Ok, looks like 3/4x16, maybe 18 TPI. Best I can do with a tape measure.

Edit:Gotta be a 16 TPI and yes, BWT has an adapter, 3/4x16 TPI to 8 TPI w/#1 MT for $69.95. What a deal!


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

bstarkey said:


> Haven't looked at the threads yet but was heading out to the garage now so will let you know.
> 
> Ok, looks like 16, maybe 18 TPI. Best I can do with a tape measure.


Maybe ¾" diameter by 16 TPI which is a common thread size. You could get a Oneway Talon chuck and the correct insert an then you would be in business.

Here are the sizes available for the chuck adapters: *http://www.oneway.ca/chucks/adaptors.htm*

. . . and here are the Oneway Talon chucks:
*http://www.oneway.ca/chucks/talon.htm*


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## 9thousandfeet (Dec 28, 2014)

Or for 30 bucks less, give or take, here's the "original" Oneway chuck which takes all the same jaws as their Talon model but is lever-operated rather than key-operated.

The problem with key-operated Oneway chucks is that you can't get the damn chuck key into the chuck at all if straight-shot access to the side of the chuck is restricted, as when the chuck is inside anything, like the inside of a bowl or a platter, say.

With a lever chuck it's usually possible to use a couple of Allen wrenches, or some other angled levers which will fit in the lever holes, to tighten and loosen the chuck even when there is no straight-shot access to the sides of the chuck. 

Some keyed chucks which use an allen-style key to operate them (like Vicmarc or Sorby or the SuperNova from Tecknatool) don't have this limitation either (you can reach in there with a regular allen key and operate the action). But Oneways and some of the other Tecknatool products do. Many turners don't find that to be much of a liability, but others do. 

Worth knowing about either way, just in case you find that holding the inside of a bowl or some other "dished" form with the chuck in expansion mode is a useful strategy. I use that method constantly, and find it enormously convenient.


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## 9thousandfeet (Dec 28, 2014)

bstarkey said:


> Gotta be a 16 TPI and yes, BWT has an adapter, 3/4x16 TPI to 8 TPI w/#1 MT for $69.95. What a deal!


 Right.
But if you get a chuck with a 3/4 x 16 adapter it will screw straight on to the spindle you have without any additional intermediate adapters.

If you upgrade one day to a different lathe with an 8tpi (or some other) spindle, you can just change the adapters in your chuck.

Cheaper, and less chance of introducing run-out by using an additional component. 
With the BWT adapter on your spindle you'd still need a chuck adapter ($25 or so) anyway, but in 8 tpi instead of 16.


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

9thousandfeet said:


> Right.
> But if you get a chuck with a 3/4 x 16 adapter it will screw straight on to the spindle you have without any additional intermediate adapters.
> 
> If you upgrade one day to a different lathe with an 8tpi (or some other) spindle, you can just change the adapters in your chuck.
> ...


Agreed. Better all around I'd say.


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

9thousandfeet said:


> Right.
> But if you get a chuck with a 3/4 x 16 adapter it will screw straight on to the spindle you have without any additional intermediate adapters.
> 
> If you upgrade one day to a different lathe with an 8tpi (or some other) spindle, you can just change the adapters in your chuck.
> ...


True if you only have one chuck ... and with this lathe, that is probably a reasonable assumption. But, in a hypothetical case where somebody had several chucks and the lathe had an oddball thread, then it would cost less to just get the BWT adapter.

Adapters from BWT are extremely well made and runout is not likely to be an issue. Changing the tapered insert in Talon and Stronghold chucks is not an easy task. I changed out several when going from 1 X 8 to 1¼ X 8 and snapped a screw in the process of changing one of them. Fortunately, I was able to back the broken screw out and Oneway sent me replacement screws at no charge. That is one reason that I like to deal with them. I doubt that any other chuck manufacturer would do that.

The cap screws are specially hardened ones made by Unbrako and Oneway says that even the grade 8 screws from the hardware store are not tough enough to hold up to the torsion, tensile, and compression forces needed to install or remove the inserts. They recommend replacing the screws after they have been used once.

At last count, I found that I have 8 chucks. I am not the typical woodturner, but I hate to remove a chuck from a project that is in-work just because it is unlikely that I would be able to get things lined up exactly the same if I removed and reinstalled a piece in a chuck.

You mentioned that the lathe has plain bearings. Inspect them and the spindle for wear just in case they have been run without sufficient lubrication. If necessary, replace them and always keep them well lubricated. Plain bearings, when properly maintained, are to best kind as far as smooth running and radial play are concerned ... but they do require paying attention to make sure that they are well lubricated. If they are the type that has a little square window and a felt wick to lubricate the spindle, make sure that is in good order as well.


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

True if you only have one chuck ... and with this lathe, that is probably a reasonable assumption. But, in a hypothetical case where somebody had several chucks and the lathe had an oddball thread, then it would cost less to just get the BWT adapter.

Yes, I'll probably only get one chuck for this lathe. Like I said, it's my first one.

You mentioned that the lathe has plain bearings. Inspect them and the spindle for wear just in case they have been run without sufficient lubrication. If necessary, replace them and always keep them well lubricated. Plain bearings, when properly maintained, are to best kind as far as smooth running and radial play are concerned ... but they do require paying attention to make sure that they are well lubricated. If they are the type that has a little square window and a felt wick to lubricate the spindle, make sure that is in good order as well. 

Thanks for that. I've pulled the spindles and see no signs on appreciable wear on it or the bearings. Not sure about wicks but I'll look again to be sure. Guess I'll put a drop of oil on both bearings before each use. Mounted the motor up and am looking for a belt now. Found a live center tail shaft on Amazon for around $17 bucks or so. Probably go with that. Hopefully it won't be too long before I have it running. Thanks again.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

Just guessing by the color, sometime in the 1940's. I have a metal lathe and a table top size milling machine, both made in 1948 that are that color blue.
Mike Hawkins


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

firehawkmph said:


> Just guessing by the color, sometime in the 1940's. I have a metal lathe and a table top size milling machine, both made in 1948 that are that color blue.
> Mike Hawkins


Yeah, I've been looking at that too. Only thing is it looks pretty good for being 70 or 80 years old so it could have been repainted. But the major things I keep coming back too are, no serial number, no motor mount, no belt cover and mostly the barrel clamp lock being in the 10 o'clock position. All things I've only seen on the 1935-36 model pics. But... it could have been pieced together so who knows. Thanks :smile:


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

Based on the fact that it has Morse taper sockets in both the drive spindle and the tailstock quill, I think that the lathe is from the early 1960's. By that time, they were probably using an aluminum tag with the model number so it is likely that it fell off. The resemblance to earlier models is not surprising since new models were just revisions of preceding models.


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Bill Boehme said:


> Based on the fact that it has Morse taper sockets in both the drive spindle and the tailstock quill, I think that the lathe is from the early 1960's. By that time, they were probably using an aluminum tag with the model number so it is likely that it fell off. The resemblance to earlier models is not surprising since new models were just revisions of preceding models.


That sounds much more reasonable and accounts for everything. Maybe I'll find it in the 60's stuff. Thanks :smile:


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## Bill Boehme (Feb 9, 2014)

bstarkey said:


> That sounds much more reasonable and accounts for everything. Maybe I'll find it in the 60's stuff. Thanks :smile:


My guess was all wrong. You can see a bunch of the really old Sears tool catalogs here: http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=222&tab=3&sort=2&th=false&fl=

Your lathe might be a combination of a Companion and a Craftsman lathe. It seems to be about 1936 when lathes looking like yours appeared except that they had ball bearings. Some of the Craftsman "Companion" lathes had plain bearings. Yours might be a transition model that didn't show up in a catalog. I like the prices for tools back in the 1930's.


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## bstarkey (Mar 24, 2015)

Bill Boehme said:


> ...I like the prices for tools back in the 1930's.


Yeah, I almost ordered 2 of 'em at $4.95 

FYI-I found another one identical to mine at http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php%3F10337-Old-Craftsmsn-wood-lathe-help And here http://lumberjocks.com/topics/51897 Seems they're having the same problem identifying it we are. Well whatever it is, I've got it up and running now so it still works! Wooo


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## berniecj (Mar 1, 2016)

i have just received that same lathe from a friend. I am new to lathing and it came without a dead center. The tail stock is there with what appears to be a tapper. Is there a live center i can get for the tail stock to get up and running?


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