# Where can I buy Maple lumber to make cabinet doors?



## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

Hello, long time lurker, first time poster. I want to reface my kitchen cabinets with maple veneer, then make the maple shaker doors myself.... The question is, where can I get the raw materials (maple wood)? I live in the twin cities area, but when I go to Home Depot all I see in Maple are some 1 foot wide boards at most... some of my cabinets will need to be wider than the 1 foot, also I will need some thinner pieces than what they have. As someone who has never really purchased lumber before, what is the best way to do this? Is there places online? Should I be looking for certain types of lumber places around the Twin Cities? Is this a situation where I can go pick out the wood myself or is this certainly a "custom order" job somewhere? Thanks for any insight at all on this!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Clive use Yahoo search or Google*

I entered "sawmills, Minneapolis, MN" and found:
http://www.magicyellow.com/category/Sawmills/Minneapolis_MN.htmlhttp://www.magicyellow.com/category/Lumber_Retail/Mankato_MN.html
If you found this site you can find anthing using the search engines above. I recommend going in person to the mill and talking first hand with a sawyer or mill hand. They are usually always helpful to someone starting out. Maple is a hardwood and requires s knowledge of it's properties. Do not use anthing that's not kiln dried and room stabilized for a good month before sawing into it. As soon as you can assemble your cut and profiled pieces to avoid warp/twist. Veneering is a special process and unless you are knowledgable read/learn all you can about it to avoid the pitfalls, separation and air pockets. Also see "face frames" on this forum for design and construction advice. Good luck, let us know how you made out.:thumbsup: bill.


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## gregL (Feb 1, 2009)

Clive,
This is a great place to buy quality lumber online. Shipping is reasonable and their lumber is always 1st. class.
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/lumber.html


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## mwhafner (Jan 16, 2009)

First, I would use plywood for the panels on Shaker doors, unless you have a raised panel in mind. Just use solid wood for the rails and stiles.

Second, try to find a "friend" in the cabinet business in your area, especially the smaller shops. Find out where they buy their lumber. 

Woodnthings has some great points, key being acclimation.


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## beerdog (Mar 13, 2009)

Try looking for lumberyards that specialize in hardwoods. We have a few in Chicago. They are no good for buying plain old pine lumber, but they are great for exotics and cabinet grade plywoods. There must be a few in the Twin Cities.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

beerdog said:


> Try looking for lumberyards that specialize in hardwoods. We have a few in Chicago. They are no good for buying plain old pine lumber, but they are great for exotics and cabinet grade plywoods. There must be a few in the Twin Cities.


you're in Chicago?........well hello neighbor...may i ask where in our area you have found a good supplier?


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

We also have a building supply warehouse here, they don't carry exotics but they do carry Maple, Oak, Walnut and the like. Problem is the price. Last I checked they had 1X8 maple milled to 3/4", but it was $5.50 a linear foot.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Clive, help me out here..*

I see where you are looking for maple wider than 12"....how so?
I have Mission or Shaker style cabinets in my house and there are no panels wider than 10"...even so why not just use 1/4" maple veneer plywood for the panels between the stiles. a 1/4" groove on the inside of the 3/4" stock will be all that's required to inset the panels. Your stiles will probably be about 2 1/2" wide, with similiar rails. You will want to half lap the corner joints for strength on the doors, or use the Kreg joints and cover the screw heads, not my choice, however. Maple is very hard and by the time you drill and screw all the joints, you'd be finished with the half laps. My widest door is 23 1/2 " with a center divider and 8 1/2" panels. Raised panels of solid woods are usually left unglued in the groove, however plywood won't move as much as solid wood, so I've glues all 4 side with no disasters. :thumbsup: KOW. Further, you will need to have a jointer, thickness planer and tablesaw or router table to accomplish this from rough sawn wood, or have it milled to thickness. Keep in mind that sanding out the mill marks is also required, they are almost invisible but will show when finish is applied. Sorry, I don't know from your question how well equiped or skilled you are, so I may be giving you more info than you requested. Keep us informed.:smile: bill


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## Julian the woodnut (Nov 5, 2008)

Tom 5151, I live in the Chicagoland area also, and have used owl lumber quite a bit for lumber. They have just about every species you's ever want.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

gregL said:


> Clive,
> This is a great place to buy quality lumber online. Shipping is reasonable and their lumber is always 1st. class.
> http://www.woodworkerssource.com/lumber.html


YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING, Maybe I'm just lucky but I did a quick search for currly maple, soft maple, poplar and purple heart on this site since I just purchased those locally. I added the straight lining to be comparable. I paid tax but would have to pay tax and shipping on line.

*I paid* 
Curry Maple $5.70 
Soft Maple $3.30 
Poplar $1.70 
Purple Heart $4.60 


*Web price*
Curry Maple $10.24
Soft Maple $5.24
Poplar $3.44
Purple Heart sale $6.24 reg $8.24 

I would look up saw mills, hardwood lumber sales, exotic wood sales in your local phone book and call for prices. Like I said maybe I am just lucky to get these prices but within 1 hour from my house they have probably 7 or 8 suppliers and 3 of them or with in 30 min.


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## bzbatl (Feb 10, 2009)

Man, around here the poplar boards have gotten almost as expensive as oak. I've made a few things out of oak that I went in to buy poplar for...

It's too bad pine creates so much dust. I think it would be pretty nice looking in my house, but I'm not willing to deal with the clouds it creates in my garage.


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## Boardman (Sep 9, 2007)

Clive - the best overall source in the Twin Cities is Youngblood Lumber:
http://www.youngbloodlumber.com/

It's on Central and 18th just north of downtown Minneapolis. If you join MN Woodowrkers Guild
http://www.minnesotawoodworkersguild.com/
for $30 annually, you get the wholesale price at Youngblood. The besty aprt of Youngblood is that you can sort thru the piles to get exactly the boards you want, which minimizes waste. And it's all quality stuff. I've found some real gems in the piles, like 13" curly red oak, curly beech, and a little birdseye maple in the regular piles. They sell both rough sawn and finished lumber. For instance, I get 15/16ths "skip-planed" red oak (which is really 95% plus clean planed) for $2.90bf. Now some will say they can get RS red oak for $2 at some small sawmill operations, but at Younblood you can be sure to get knot-free stuff and exactly the widths you want.

When you go in the drive, the hardwood is in the big brown bldg. on your right. Just go in and pick what you want - just be sure to restack it neatly. Then go to the Yard Office just across the drive and they'll write it up. Flash the card when you pay in the main office. Real "old time" lumber yard feel. The big bldg. is over 100 years old.

Another place -
http://www.forestproductssupply.com/
at Hwy 61 and County Road C in maplewood. Their prices are higher than Youngblood on full size stock, but they have tons of shorts for dirt cheap. Their "shorts" are up to 36" or so, and they generate a lot because they're actually a millwork shop. It can be disconcerting when you walk in because since it's a working shop no one pays attention to you. But the shorts bins are right in front of you - just pick what you want and then go into the office to pay.

I've also find some great deals on craigslist under "material." Mostly small sawmills out in the woods selling material.


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

Pricing from my local sawyer buddy. This is green lumber mind you so its kind of my "savings plan". For the record its *not* Dirtclod. 

Poplar: $.80 bd/ft
Walnut: $2.00 bd/ft
Oak: $150bd/ft (including some quarter sawn)
Maple: 1.75 bd/ft
Ash: $1 Bd/ft


Its good to find a sawyer, not even a commercial mill but a guy with a portable sawmill.


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## Tom5151 (Nov 21, 2008)

Julian the woodnut said:


> Tom 5151, I live in the Chicagoland area also, and have used owl lumber quite a bit for lumber. They have just about every species you's ever want.


Hello sir......

Thank you. I'll look them up. Is the pricing pretty good?


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## moondawg (Dec 17, 2008)

Nate1778 said:


> Oak: $150bd/ft (including some quarter sawn)


It better be QS and then gold plated, for that price. Are they shipping it in...... from the MOON? 

haha. j\k.


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## beerdog (Mar 13, 2009)

Tom

as julian stated, I have also used Owl in Chicagoland. They have a few locations . Here is their website. I am no expert by any means, but the big boxes or even a plain lumberyard are not in their league when it comes to hardwoods.

http://www.owlhardwood.com/


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Clive are you out there?*

Or are we just talking amongst ourselves? Give us a signal that you're getting this info so we can be of further assistance. :thumbsup: bill


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## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for all the great replies! Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread! I've definitely learned a lot just in this thread about my project. I have a few followup questions


1) Will the lumberyard (in this case, most likely the recommended Youngblood lumber in the Twin Cities) cut wood for me? By that, I mean I won't be able to fit a piece of 4 foot by 8 foot maple veneered plywood in my vehicle. If they can't cut it down (perhaps into four 2x2 pieces) then I will have to see if I can borrow a friend's truck

2) As this is all new to me, I take it my options are to buy the "finished lumber" and have no need for a jointer / thickness planer, or buy the rough sawn and get those two tools? and I assume the finished lumber is marked up a bit from the rough sawn?

3) Woodnthings, your post was quite helpful. Do you, or anyone else, know if there are any "plans" online for cabinet faces like this? You mention 2.5" width rails and stiles on 3/4" board, with a 1/4" groove for the 1/4" plywood. Are those "standard" measurements?

4) For a beginner like myself, should I use the half lap joins, kreg screws, or attempt mortise & tenon or something else? 

Thanks again so far for all the great insight!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Hey Clive, Howdy!*

Lets get our terms straight first. The cabinet faces or "face frames" are the perimeter or borders on the cabinet on which the the doors overlay. They generally are about 1 1/2" up to 2" wide to allow for hinges.They are made of solid wood and either attached piece by piece, as you go or all joined together as an assembly, then attached. You may be veneering yours so they are already made to the existing width.
I don't know if I would attempt to veneer the existing face frames, but that's a choice you will have to make depending on the existing cabinet finish. Will it match? and are the existing faces flat enough or you'll be sanding or planing them, to get the very thin veneer to lay flat on all the surfaces. Your call.
The Shaker style doors will have panels inserted in the face frames in the 1/4" groove to goes all the way around the inside perimeter. The corners should be half lapped for strength. and any middle dividers as well. Here is a link that show Shaker style doors:
http://www.wellborn.com/charactermaple/bristolcharactermaple/
You should search online for most of your design ideas, rather than posting here since it's your personal preference that matters. We'll tell you how to make it once we know what you want to make. Shaker style is good because you don't really need routers or shapers, since it's all flat stock with no profiles. Making the half laps is best done with a dado set on the table saw or a radial arm saw. A router will also work.The grooves can be done on the table saw.
So it's pretty much a piece of cake once you get the stock cut to width or if you're not using dimensioned lumber already milled to thickness, usually 3/4 ". The dimensions I gave for rails and stiles are what looks good to me and a slight variation in width won't make much difference.My cabinets were made by Wellborn
http://www.wellborn.com/new/species/ are hickory. I did end up making my own pantry doors 6'6" and a 48" wide opening. I used 3/4" hickory plywood as the center core and glued 5/16" hickory rails and stiles on both sides to match the commercial cabinets across from them. 
The beveled glass door have mitered corners with splines. Well, that'll do for now. :thumbsup: good luck, bill


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## Oscar (Jun 7, 2008)

Daren:
Are you seeing this?? Daren's in IL and does lots of veneer. He might be able to help you out??


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## Boardman (Sep 9, 2007)

Clive - 
Youngblood does list straight line ripping as one of their services. I've never had the occasion to have anything ripped, but as slow as they are now due to the economy, you could probably get them to do it on the spot. In the lumber building there is a set of 8' long sawhorses customers use to cut things themselves. Just bring your own circular saw.

One nice thing is that their plywood sheets are 49" x 97" instead of 48" x 96", so you can cut it up and still end up with 24" x 24" pieces.

RS (Rough Sawn) lumber is substantially cheaper, so if you're in the position to buy a jointer and planer, it's the best way to go in the long run. That affords you the opportunity to end up with finished boards more than 3/4" thick, which makes pieces you build more substantial, in my opinion. RS 4/4 starts out at full nominal dimension - i.e. true 1', 1.5" 2" etc.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Sorry Guys FYI*

But the guy, Clive, who posted this thread lives in the Twin Cities, St Paul , Minneapolis, Minnesota so I doubt if he's going to Lousiana, Montana or Illinois/Chicago to purchase wood. It kinda got sidetracked by some other posts. Maybe Boardman will be able to give you some more first hand advice/assistance than those of us so very far away. Sounds like Clive could use a mentor to me,:yes: maybe someone will volunteer? I'm doin' my best, but I feel like I'm instructing the first class in cabinet making from over here in Michigan. :blink:This may be a bigger project than it appeared at first. I donno. There is lots to learn, but it's simple if you go step by step. 
FYI:smile: bill


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## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

Bill,
Thanks for all your help thus far! I have a couple follow up questions but am excited and facinated to take on this project (and hopefully many other follow up projects). 

My first question on the cabinet doors is, if I use a table saw (which I have) and a dado set (which I need to get yet), won't the dado cut be showing on the stiles and rails and also interfere with the half laps? If so, don't I want to "start" my dado cuts somehow like an inch into the wood, rather than just pushing the wood thru the table saw and essentially ripping a groove thru the entire piece, where you could see it if you looked at the ends? Hopefully this question makes sense!

And btw, the link that you posted on the shaker cabinet doors is exactly what I am going for. Thanks, Clive


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Clive, you are correct!*

Your question is as follows:
My first question on the cabinet doors is, if I use a table saw (which I have) and a dado set (which I need to get yet), won't the dado cut be showing on the stiles and rails and also interfere with the half laps? If so, don't I want to "start" my dado cuts somehow like an inch into the wood, rather than just pushing the wood thru the table saw and essentially ripping a groove thru the entire piece, where you could see it if you looked at the ends? Hopefully this question makes sense!
Yes it does, :yes: so we have to make a "stopped dado" to prevent it from showing at the corners. I did this by using a router table and a slot cutter 1/4" wide. A router would do the same, but with an added degree of difficulty, since you can't see the cutter too well, the router's in the way. Pictures are included:


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## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

Bill, thanks for the great pictures and helpful responses. Just a point of clarification, did you make the entire dado cut with the router table + 1/4" slot cutter? Does this mean using a dado set and a table saw wouldn't allow for a stopped dado (at both ends)? Is your method the easiest/best way to make a stopped dado at both ends? Could I also get a plunge router and just plunge in at the starting point? Thanks again for all the insight!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Yes, No,Yes,No, Yes!*



Clive Driscoll said:


> Bill, thanks for the great pictures and helpful responses. Just a point of clarification, did you make the entire dado cut with the router table + 1/4" slot cutter? Does this mean using a dado set and a table saw wouldn't allow for a stopped dado (at both ends)? Is your method the easiest/best way to make a stopped dado at both ends? Could I also get a plunge router and just plunge in at the starting point? Thanks again for all the insight!


 Yes, :thumbsup:for making shallow groves to an exact width I like the slot cutters.
No, :thumbdown:the dado set on the table saw has a much greater diameter, so more wood is removed than is really necessary but you can still start it and stop it with reference marks or stop blocks.
Yes, :thumbsup:because I can see the stop/start marks, and you can see the cutter, and it has a smaller diameter, but the router slot cutter must be set to the middle of the groove.
No :thumbdown: Plunging is not required with the slot cutter used on the flat. However, using a 1/4" straight bit and guide plate or centering pins running the groove would also work. Keep it centered and don't tip it!
Yes,:thumbsup: plunging the bit into the work to start the cut would be the best way using this method.
I like the using a router table with a lift (mines a Jess Em Mast R Lift) or base plate height adjustable router such as Freud's FT1700 series.. Just a touch on the crank or height adjustment from the top of the table gets it "right on". Off for now, bill:smile:


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## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks again Bill, as far as the half laps, do you use a table saw to do those? Or do you have a different/better recommended method? Thanks again, Clive


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*There are a no. of ways...*



Clive Driscoll said:


> Thanks again Bill, as far as the half laps, do you use a table saw to do those? Or do you have a different/better recommended method? Thanks again, Clive


I made those using a tenoning jig on the table saw, the safest way to hold pieces vertical over the blade, but there is a safe/pratical limit to length! You could use your new dado set. The main problem is "wasting" the unwanted material in the lap. However you do that will depend on the available tools. A RAS saw with a dado cutter would work. Norm Abrahams...sp? Cuts the shoulder first on the table saw then "chews" away the waste with lots of cuts close together...not my choice if you have many to do. A properly set up bandsaw would work, then hand plane down to the final surface. A router, hand held in a jig would work. Do a search for "router tenoning or half lap jig". Obviously the depth is critical so, no guess work allowed. Make as many practice pieces as you have to, then use the real deal. Every mistake on one piece is x2 if you also repeat the process on the mate.:thumbdown: So, a 1/64th becomes 1/32nd.:blink: bill


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## Clive Driscoll (Mar 19, 2009)

Well just to update everyone on the original thread topic (buying wood), I went to a lumberyard for the first time on Sat. I went to the recommended Youngboods lumberyard in search of some 1/4" Maple plywood. Since I can't fit a full 4 x 8' sheet in my vehicle I was hoping they would maybe cut down the sheets for me. Well when I got there I found out that they sold the sheets already cut into 2'x4' - sweet for my situation. Unfortunately when I was there the place was dead and nobody around in the immediate area to answer a few questions (without me walking back to the office - a different building). I picked out two 2x4' pieces of 1/4" Maple plywood that I thought would look good for cabinet doors, unfortunately they only had about 5 total pieces to choose from in that width. Not much more in other width's. I was hoping for quite a bit more than that. Of the 5 total pieces, a couple of them were quite damanged that I don't see how anyone would buy them. I find out they do cuts for $5 min (includes 7 cuts) but I didn't need it. Proving that I'm a true beginner, when I got home I looked at the receipt I noticed the boards were "A4 quality", I didn't even know the difference or see any other qualities there. Is A4 good enough for a cabinet face? Also, can I sand these plywood sheets? Or are they too thin that I would sand right through the maple? Thanks


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