# Glass coat on table



## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi there. I posted a few weeks back about a finish for the redwood table I had made. My client wanted to go with the glass coat epoxy resin for a tough surface. 
It was my first time using this and just completed it yesterday. I was instructed to use one coat of sealer which I don't think was enough as the air bubbles kept breaking up through even long after it begun to set so I couldn't burn them all out. 
Is it ok to sand them back and put a second coat directly on top? 
There are mixed reviews on the glass coat, should I stick with same brand or try another?

Thank you,
Conor


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

You may have stirred the epoxy too agressive. Normally the bubbles are caused when mixing the epoxy. The directions may vary a little from product to product so refer to the directions of the epoxy you are using. In general if the first coat was done less than 24 hours ago you can just apply another coat. After 24 hours the first coat should be sanded first. I would stick with one brand of epoxy on the same project.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks Steve. Just a very light sand is it? Also what grit would you recommend?

Conor


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Crafted by Conor said:


> Thanks Steve. Just a very light sand is it? Also what grit would you recommend?
> 
> Conor


The sanding just makes the finish bond better. You can use 220 grit sandpaper to cut the shine off. It's coarse enough to do this and not leave scratches you can see.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

I had my 50 year old table resurfaced with a glass coat. It is my pride and joy. Like a rose wood swimming pool.
johnep


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks. 

I just purchased epoxy from same supplier and their recommendations were to not sand it but just wipe it down with methylated spirits and pour on resin again. They said when you sand it turns a milky colour but the new coat should cover that anyways. 
Personally I would like to sand as there are a few bubbles that remained pretty high and like you said Steve to get a better bond with the two.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Crafted by Conor said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I just purchased epoxy from same supplier and their recommendations were to not sand it but just wipe it down with methylated spirits and pour on resin again. They said when you sand it turns a milky colour but the new coat should cover that anyways.
> Personally I would like to sand as there are a few bubbles that remained pretty high and like you said Steve to get a better bond with the two.


If you sand with too coarse sandpaper I can see it going milky but you should be alright with 220 or finer paper.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

The bubbles may not have been caused by aggressive stirring. Most labeled directions suggest using a gel mix to fill holes and voids. If after that, you still have bubbles, block sand flat and do another pour.


















.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks for the advice. 
I sanded it down with fine sand paper and cleaned it down and re-poured the epoxy. No real problems with bubbles this time they all burnt out quite easily. The table was looking great so I locked up the doors and left it to set. Now I have noticed a lot of wrinkly lines through the finish. When you look from some angles of light it's not visible at all but when you look from others it stands out like a sore thumb. 
When I run my hand along the top in some areas I can feel it slightly and in more areas I can't. 
What could the cause of this be? 
Also could I sand the top down with very fine sand paper and leave as finish?
The table top is 3.2metres x 1.2metres and has used over $500 of epoxy already I don't think client would like three coats somehow!
Thanks for the advice it's greatly appreciated


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

I'm wondering would it be because of the cold. I've done this indoors at about 20 degree but may have dropped to 12-13degrees overnight


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It's possible the temperature could be causing your problems. The finish gets thicker the cooler it is. There should be a temerature range given by the manufacture listed on the can. When working epoxy in cooler temperatures you can warm the resin with a double boiler or stick it in a microwave. Just don't heat the hardener. 

From where you are you could hand rub the epoxy and buff it. Let it dry a couple of days first, then take a hard rubber block and start with 600 grit sandpaper and wet sand the ridges out. Then go over it again with 800, then 1000, then 1200, then 1500 grit and buff it out with an auto polisher with rubbing compound.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks Steve. The recommended temperature was 23 degrees but I was told to heat the product in warm water for 15mins if temp was cooler which I did. But I heated resin and hardener so maybe that was it. 

Also they told me to mix it in small batches (disposable plastic cups) which I thought was off as had to mix about 20cups. Wouldn't one or two large mixes have been much more appropriate for a table of that size?

Also with the polisher will a car polisher do or must it be specific type?

Thank you,
Conor


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Anytime you mix something that has two parts time is an issue. If you mix a large container of the epoxy then it must be spread faster than if you mixed small batches. It probably could have been done but you would have had to have helpers to get it down quick enough. It would also have been much harder to thoroughly stir the finish enough. That would have been worse to have places not have hardener which would never dry. 

Heating the hardener would have the affect of accellerating the drying time. I suspect it set up before it flowed out is why it dried with some ripples in it. 

As far as the polisher, I use a 7" auto polisher I bought from Harbor Freight and use a lambswool bonnet. I use it with 3m rubbing compound and it polishes very well. When you sand the finish just barely sand enough to sand the ripples out and sand longer with the finer grits. The sandpaper will scratch the finish and the finer grits remove them so the buffer can bring the sheen back. It will work but expect it to take a bunch of elbow grease. Epoxy is harder than most finishes. You might work one spot all the way to polished to see if there is any need to alter the procedure.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Thank you. I will do this over he weekend and will let you know how it goes,


Conor


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Ok I bought a buffer polisher. I couldn't get 3m rubbing compound but I got turtle wax rubbing compound I hope it does the same trick!


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Crafted by Conor said:


> Ok I bought a buffer polisher. I couldn't get 3m rubbing compound but I got turtle wax rubbing compound I hope it does the same trick!


I get the 3m compound at walmart. If they don't have it better go to someplace that sells automotive paint and get their rubbing compound. Turtle wax rubbing compound is the worst compound I've ever used. It's next to nothing.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

I went down to nearby auto store and got meguiars ultimate compound. 
I've sanded down the table, it took a while but it has come up good. Now for the compound in the morning


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Not all rubbing compounds will work the same. If the operator is familiar with using them, he/she can usually figure out what bonnets to use and the buffing speed. Using a buffer can cause burns if not used carefully.


















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## Balfour Refinishing (Jul 20, 2014)

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound is goog compound. When you buff don't apply pressure on the polisher and keep the bonnet wet with the rubbing compound. If you let it dry out or apply too much pressure it can generate heat and melt the finish causing another place to sand out. If you have the finish sanded fine enough the counter should shine up like glass.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Ok thank you. The buffer I bought came with an application bonnet and finishing bonnet. So is it ok to use the finishing bonnet dry or not?

Thanks for the great help


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Crafted by Conor said:


> Ok thank you. The buffer I bought came with an application bonnet and finishing bonnet. So is it ok to use the finishing bonnet dry or not?
> 
> Thanks for the great help


Yes, use the finishing bonnet but never use it dry. Not only will it not do anything for you, you run the risk of heating up the finish. The polisher will build up friction and can melt the finish and cause some more marks on it. After you are done just use a damp cloth to clean off the residue off. You may need to go over the area with a colorcoat safe polish to bring the shine back.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Table is finished. Thanks for all the great advice. I'd upload some photos but I can't seem to do it.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm glad it worked out for you. You can use that procedure to polish out any finish however other finishes might need more drying time. Also it would be better to never start sanding with coarser paper than 1200 grit. I recommended starting with 600 grit because you had the ripples in the finish you could feel. You would never have leveled the finish with 1200 grit.


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## johnep (Apr 12, 2007)

Go to photobucket. Click on img file and paste in post. Lots of help if you search the forum.
johnep


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> I'm glad it worked out for you. You can use that procedure to polish out any finish however other finishes might need more drying time. Also it would be better to never start sanding with coarser paper than 1200 grit. I recommended starting with 600 grit because you had the ripples in the finish you could feel. You would never have leveled the finish with 1200 grit.


Great you answered that question before I had asked, I will be using this process again for sure!

Also while I'm on this topic. I'm also making a large dining out of reclaimed Tasmanian oak. I've made quite a few coffee tables and hall tables out of this and have been finishing them with Danish oil. Also with these tables I never filled in any of the defects as they brought great character to the piece. 
As for the dining table would Danish oil be a substantial finish seeing as there will be far more traffic on this? There are various nail holes on the top which I am not too concerned about but there is one open knot which looks nice but leaves a pretty big hole for food to get caught up in. 
I'm afraid that filling it with resin will take that reclaimed look away from it so I think il ask the experts yet again on this one!

Thank you,
Conor


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Crafted by Conor said:


> Great you answered that question before I had asked, I will be using this process again for sure!
> 
> Also while I'm on this topic. I'm also making a large dining out of reclaimed Tasmanian oak. I've made quite a few coffee tables and hall tables out of this and have been finishing them with Danish oil. Also with these tables I never filled in any of the defects as they brought great character to the piece.
> As for the dining table would Danish oil be a substantial finish seeing as there will be far more traffic on this? There are various nail holes on the top which I am not too concerned about but there is one open knot which looks nice but leaves a pretty big hole for food to get caught up in.
> ...


If you have a large knot hole to fill you could mix a universal tinting color to bondo and use that fill it with. It won't accept color after it is dry so you have to make the right color first. You have to make the color a little less red to allow for the red in the hardener you add later. If you match the color of the knot it will look like a solid knot instead. 

Danish oil makes a nice finish for a lot of different projects but I don't recommend it for a table top. It's not water resistant enough for a table unless you really work a lot of it on onto the table. I would rather use a chemical coating such as pre-cat lacquer or polyurethane. If you don't get carried away with it the finish can be thin to where it doesn't get that plastic look to it.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> If you have a large knot hole to fill you could mix a universal tinting color to bondo and use that fill it with. It won't accept color after it is dry so you have to make the right color first. You have to make the color a little less red to allow for the red in the hardener you add later. If you match the color of the knot it will look like a solid knot instead.
> 
> Danish oil makes a nice finish for a lot of different projects but I don't recommend it for a table top. It's not water resistant enough for a table unless you really work a lot of it on onto the table. I would rather use a chemical coating such as pre-cat lacquer or polyurethane. If you don't get carried away with it the finish can be thin to where it doesn't get that plastic look to it.


Thanks Steve. 
I've used feast and watsons furniture polyurethane varnish on it with a matt finish. It came up nice but seems to remain very sticky to touch. I hadn't applied a sealer to the timber first maybe that's why? Anyways I've only two coats on yet so hopefully next coat will dry hard. 

I want to bring up a very smooth finish on it. Should I rub in some wax or could I use my buffer again on this table? Because it's a matt finish should that effect me?

Thank you very much,
Conor


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If the finish isn't dried hard you don't want to start rubbing on it. Keep in mind if you start buffing on it it will get glossy rather than a matt sheen. The finish has a powder in it called flattening compound which floats to the surface as it dries. This powder kills the sheen so if you rub it out and buff it you will get under this powder where the finish is glossy. There are folks around that say they can rub a finish out to a satin sheen however I'm not one of them. Any time I've ever rubbed a finish to satin it's come out cloudy and streaked with scratches from the rubbing medium. I just quit trying. If there is something wrong with the finish I spray another coat on. 

Back to the poly, sometimes it takes a while for it to cure. How long has it been since you applied it and what is the weather doing where you are? Cool and or damp weather can extend the drying time. Also what product did you use for a sealer?


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

It has been just over a week since I applied it. The weather is pretty cold we are just entering spring. Although the table has been indoors it's probably been in about a 12-15 degree Celsius. On the tin it says recoat after 12hrs so I was surprised to still feel it sticky a week later. I just varnished directly onto the timber. It was only just after I realised I hadn't applied a sealer underneath. 

Getting the tabletop silky smooth is more important than maintaining the Matt look so could I sand down the final coat with say 400/600 grit to smooth and then rub that out with 0000 steel wool?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Something is very wrong for the finish to be sticky after a week even at that temperature. My advise would be to remove it and start over. If you waited and it did eventually dry you would have no way to knowing how long the finish would last. I think the finish being sticky is a warning the finish is defective. If you do wish to keep going with it ventilation will help it dry especially if it is warm dry air. 

Using a sealer is more of a convenience than anything. A polyurethane will actually work better directly applied to the wood. A sealer usually builds and sands easier than polyurethane so most of us start with a sealer for that reason.

Another thought: Is it possible the table top is contaminated with some chemical? Sometimes a finish will have a bad reaction with a foreign substance in the wood. I've had some of my guys strip a table top and not rince the remover off well enough and even though the table top was sanded the new finish wouldn't dry. What happened in my case was the remover contains wax which doesn't sand off and it mixed with the finish and more or less made a hightly potent retarder thinner.


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## Crafted by Conor (Jul 11, 2014)

I don't think it is contaminated as they are old rafters from a house built in the early 1900s so have never received any treatment or coating. I think I will sand down and start again just to be sure. 
Thank you


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