# Newb Help



## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

Hello all,

I joined this forum because I just don’t know as much as I probably should about dust collection, and want to set something up. Problem is, not only is the budget small, but so is my shop. My shop is in my apartment, and my apartment is very small (almost the size of a studio).

I make pens and have a band saw, belt sander, grinder/buffer, lathe, and drill press (all bench top models). Winter is coming so I’m hoping to set up to turn inside. Right now, all I have is a 10 gal., 2.75 hp shop-vac (that I inherited) with a HEPA dry filter. I figure when/if that one dies on me I’d like to upgrade to a Ridgid with a little more hp. In the meantime, I’m about getting a small dust collector. I see some people just get by with a shop vac, so I want to do what’s best with what little I have. 

A friend has a couple of the small, 1hp DC’s from Harbor Freight and say’s that they do an excellent job (although he vents directly outside) and have provided great service. I was thinking something along that line, but then I say a economy Pennstate Industries DC with a 1-micron bag (the HF unit is 30-micron) for around $209+shipping. I looked at Grizzly, and see that they have 30-micron units for around the same price, and they can be upgraded to 3-micron for another $40. Then, There is also the shop-vac air cleaner: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Air-Cleaner/T24055
With quiet oppreation and three-stage filtration system. And, also the Ricon dust extractor: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2084085/36737/rikon-portable-dust-extractor.aspx


My budget is even more limited than my space, so I’m wondering what the best way to go would be. I can’t afford much more than $200, and I plan on making a hood for the lathe, and a separator (or just buy the five-gallon unit from Woodcraft). I get confused with 

I know my budget, my current set-up, and my physical limitations. I just want to know which option would be best with the set budget goal. I realize that a separator and hose’s and fitting will increase the cost, so I’m just setting budget for the main unit.

ETA:
I also found this, and am wondering thoughts.


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

for a limited budget, have you considered CL?


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

toolguy1000 said:


> for a limited budget, have you considered CL?


 ...CL?


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## J Thomas (Aug 14, 2012)

Hey there & Welcome aboard!
CL = Craigslist.
Pull up a seat & make yourself at home.
Lotta good folks here!
..Jon..


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

foir example, here are a few dust collectors in my area that appear on the local craigs list:

http://newhaven.craigslist.org/tld/3324616493.html

http://cnj.craigslist.org/tls/3361446366.html

you can start your search here:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

toolguy1000 said:


> foir example, here are a few dust collectors in my area that appear on the local craigs list:
> 
> http://newhaven.craigslist.org/tld/3324616493.html
> 
> ...


Yes. I am checking Craigs list. Just wondering if a Extractor might be a better way to go


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

"My shop is in my apartment, and my apartment is very small (almost the size of a studio)."


I think your shop size is going to be an issue with a full blown dust collector. They take up a fair amount of real estate. I have about the same issue with a basement shop, all cut up with plumbing, HVAC, and support beams and I've have had good luck using a high powered shop vac and a Dust Deputy seperator. I also equipped the shop vac with a high efficiency filter bag (designed for drywall dust) and a HEPA cartridge filter. Arguably not as good as a dust collector but fits nicely in the space I have and comes in well under $200. 
I went with a 6.5 HP Shop-Vac (name brand) with the 2.5" hose which connects nicely to the Dust Deputy. I looked at the Ridgid vacs but had two problems with them; first was the oddball hose size needing an adapter to fit to most anything else and a lack of performance specs. I ordered the shop vac on line directly from Shop Vac for about $125 and the Dust Deputy from Amazon for about $40. In lieu of a Dust Deputy, many have built their own Thein baffles which also work well. :smile:
I built my own cart for the whole shootin match. 

http://www.shopvac.com/wet-dry-vacs/default.aspx?hp=6+&ts=10-14

Amazon.com: Oneida Molded DIY Dust Deputy Cyclone: Home Improvement


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## railaw (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm looking at your picture and have no idea what that is for how it works. I'm sure there are lots of resources out there describing this stuff - ca. You point me to one?


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## 65BAJA (May 27, 2012)

railaw said:


> I'm looking at your picture and have no idea what that is for how it works. I'm sure there are lots of resources out there describing this stuff - ca. You point me to one?


The Dust Deputy is a cyclone seperator. Dirty air enters the side and swirls around throwing the dirt out to the sides and down into the bucket. The clean air in the center of the cyclone goes out the top center hole and into the vacuum.


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

I'd like to thanks everyone so far with their input.


jschaben said:


> "My shop is in my apartment, and my apartment is very small (almost the size of a studio)."
> 
> 
> I think your shop size is going to be an issue with a full blown dust collector. They take up a fair amount of real estate. I have about the same issue with a basement shop, all cut up with plumbing, HVAC, and support beams and I've have had good luck using a high powered shop vac and a Dust Deputy seperator. I also equipped the shop vac with a high efficiency filter bag (designed for drywall dust) and a HEPA cartridge filter. Arguably not as good as a dust collector but fits nicely in the space I have and comes in well under $200.
> ...


Right now I'm thinking either the DC from Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-HP-Light-Duty-Dust-Collector/G1163
or
http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-HP-Wall-Hanging-Dust-Collector/G0710

Then again, is the one from PSI worth the extra cash?

Or the dust extractor from Dewalt.
http://www.dewalt.com/tools/dust-management-dust-extractors-d27905.aspx

I still don't understand the advantage of a dust extractor to a 6.5hp shop vac. Or what I would gain with a extractor/6.5hp vac, to a DC and 2.75 shop-vac.

I currently use a 2.75hp Shop-Vac. No matter what my decision I plan on running it, or the extractor (if I go that route) through one of these: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004310/8939/Mini-Dust-Collection-Separator.aspx


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## toolguy1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

that woodcraft separator lid will work ok, but not as well as the oneida cyclone. the woodcraft separator can be made more efficient by adding a thien baffle to it:

http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm

lots of good info @ phil's site.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

railaw said:


> I'm looking at your picture and have no idea what that is for how it works. I'm sure there are lots of resources out there describing this stuff - ca. You point me to one?


The dust deputy removes well over 90% of the debris in the airflow. I went from 2-3 vacuum cleaner bags (in a 22 gallon vac with a bucket lid seperator) per month to,, well, I don't really know as the bag in that 12 gallon vac has been in there nearly a year. I've also duplicated, as close as I could, the test Kenbo did with his shop built Thein and got very similar results. The 5 gallon bucket does need to be emptied about every week to 10 days, sometimes more depending on the activity. I will add that I don't have a planner or jointer. With either of those tools I would be inclined to add a bucket top seperator in line with the whole shootin match. The bucket lid does a good job with the big stuff but the cyclone pulls out the smaller. I added the high efficiency bag and HEPA cartridge filter and am fairly confident the output air from the vacuum is under 1 micron although I have no way to verify/quantify that. :smile:

BTW, in terms of a $200 budget, the Home Depot price I found on that deWalt was $400+.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

railaw said:


> I'm looking at your picture and have no idea what that is for how it works. I'm sure there are lots of resources out there describing this stuff - ca. You point me to one?


The dust deputy removes well over 90% of the debris in the airflow. I went from 2-3 vacuum cleaner bags (in a 22 gallon vac with a bucket lid seperator) per month to,, well, I don't really know as the bag in that 12 gallon vac has been in there nearly a year. I've also duplicated, as close as I could, the test Kenbo did with his shop built Thein and got very similar results. The 5 gallon bucket does need to be emptied about every week to 10 days, sometimes more depending on the activity. I will add that I don't have a planner or jointer. With either of those tools I would be inclined to add a bucket top seperator in line with the whole shootin match. The bucket lid does a good job with the big stuff but the cyclone pulls out the smaller. I added the high efficiency bag and HEPA cartridge filter and am fairly confident the output air from the vacuum is under 1 micron although I have no way to verify/quantify that. :smile:

BTW, in terms of a $200 budget, the Home Depot price I found on that deWalt was $400+.


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

jschaben said:


> The dust deputy removes well over 90% of the debris in the airflow. I went from 2-3 vacuum cleaner bags (in a 22 gallon vac with a bucket lid seperator) per month to,, well, I don't really know as the bag in that 12 gallon vac has been in there nearly a year. I've also duplicated, as close as I could, the test Kenbo did with his shop built Thein and got very similar results. The 5 gallon bucket does need to be emptied about every week to 10 days, sometimes more depending on the activity. I will add that I don't have a planner or jointer. With either of those tools I would be inclined to add a bucket top seperator in line with the whole shootin match. The bucket lid does a good job with the big stuff but the cyclone pulls out the smaller. I added the high efficiency bag and HEPA cartridge filter and am fairly confident the output air from the vacuum is under 1 micron although I have no way to verify/quantify that. :smile:
> 
> *BTW, in terms of a $200 budget, the Home Depot price I found on that deWalt was $400+*.


One reason why I thought $249 was a pretty good price.http://www.toolking.com/dewalt-d27905-10-gallon-dust-extractor-vacuum/


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

ghostrider said:


> One reason why I thought $249 was a pretty good price.http://www.toolking.com/dewalt-d27905-10-gallon-dust-extractor-vacuum/


 
Yikes, that's a heck of a difference. I just did a quick google and Home Depot cropped up at $429 or there abouts. I just looked some more and Amazon got 'em for $219. 
Only thing is I couldn't find how large of a hose it uses. From the pics I'm guessing it's 1-1/4".


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

jschaben said:


> "My shop is in my apartment, and my apartment is very small (almost the size of a studio)."
> 
> 
> I think your shop size is going to be an issue with a full blown dust collector. They take up a fair amount of real estate. I have about the same issue with a basement shop, all cut up with plumbing, HVAC, and support beams and I've have had good luck using a high powered shop vac and a Dust Deputy seperator. I also equipped the shop vac with a high efficiency filter bag (designed for drywall dust) and a HEPA cartridge filter. Arguably not as good as a dust collector but fits nicely in the space I have and comes in well under $200.
> ...


I've picked up the Dust Deputy, and am still trying to decide which vac to get. I like the one you have, but Lowes has this one for less. http://www.lowes.com/pd_334645-20097-9661611_0__?productId=3326090&Ntt=wet/dry+6.5

The differences that I see are size, and the Lowes unit has a small bit more cfm. The one you have is rated as "super quiet" while the Lowes unit is rated a "quiet". 

I'm wondering if the noise level is much of a difference. I think I can live with the size since the difference is vertical. The Lowes unit also has a five-year warranty as opposed to the three year for your's. What would be the advantages of either unit? It seems pretty straight forward to me, but I know how things can seem and then be different when the unit is actually in the front room. 

Can you tell me any other differences your experience with it may provide?


ETA:
Just noticed that yours appears to have a few additional attachments. Any comment?


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

The thing you need to look at is the fan system. On the lower grade canister vacs the cooling air for the motor is the vacuum air exhaust. When you clog the hose the motor looses the cooling flow, and can burn up really fast. 

Better units have a desperate fan for the cooling, and the motor stays cooler.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

ghostrider said:


> I've picked up the Dust Deputy, and am still trying to decide which vac to get. I like the one you have, but Lowes has this one for less. http://www.lowes.com/pd_334645-20097-9661611_0__?productId=3326090&Ntt=wet/dry+6.5
> 
> The differences that I see are size, and the Lowes unit has a small bit more cfm. The one you have is rated as "super quiet" while the Lowes unit is rated a "quiet".
> 
> ...


Actually, I believe they probably have the same motor. Shopvac makes a line specifically for Lowes. I had one just like you linked to except I had the 22 gallon drum. I went to the 12 gallon size to reduce the total footprint to fit on the cart I made. I no longer needed the larger capacity as the dust devil eliminated that problem. I doubt there is enough difference in the performance between my unit and the one you are looking at to be measureable at our level.
The only really unique feature mine has is that the power head lifts out and can be used as a leaf blower.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> The thing you need to look at is the fan system. On the lower grade canister vacs the cooling air for the motor is the vacuum air exhaust. When you clog the hose the motor looses the cooling flow, and can burn up really fast.
> 
> Better units have a desperate fan for the cooling, and the motor stays cooler.


Hi - you're right about about burning the things up pretty quickly if you get a plugged hose, I think the last time it happened to me it only took about 15 minutes. That was before I put the dust deputy on though.
What the heck is a desperate fan though???:blink::blink::blink:


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

jschaben said:


> Hi - you're right about about burning the things up pretty quickly if you get a plugged hose, I think the last time it happened to me it only took about 15 minutes. That was before I put the dust deputy on though.
> What the heck is a desperate fan though???:blink::blink::blink:


The desperate fan is iPhone spell check for seperate.

I found out the hard way how fast a shop-vac can let the smoke out of its motor when I was working in my Mom's garage in August. I was putting new flooring in, and had made a bunch dust cutting stuff to size and making custom thresholds on the router table. I'd been running the shop-vac for about 45-minutes as the dust collector on the router table, and started cleaning up without taking a break because I was in a hurry. The hose clogged up, and the smoke came out before the hose had a chance to constrict.


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> The desperate fan is iPhone spell check for seperate.
> 
> I found out the hard way how fast a shop-vac can let the smoke out of its motor when I was working in my Mom's garage in August. I was putting new flooring in, and had made a bunch dust cutting stuff to size and making custom thresholds on the router table. I'd been running the shop-vac for about 45-minutes as the dust collector on the router table, and started cleaning up without taking a break because I was in a hurry. The hose clogged up, and the smoke came out before the hose had a chance to constrict.


So how do I tell the difference with just the specs? I thought Shop-Vacs used a bypass motor.


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

jschaben said:


> Actually, I believe they probably have the same motor. Shopvac makes a line specifically for Lowes. I had one just like you linked to except I had the 22 gallon drum. I went to the 12 gallon size to reduce the total footprint to fit on the cart I made. I no longer needed the larger capacity as the dust devil eliminated that problem. I doubt there is enough difference in the performance between my unit and the one you are looking at to be measureable at our level.
> The only really unique feature mine has is that the power head lifts out and can be used as a leaf blower.


How significant is the static pressure?

They have another one that is similar in numbers with a detachable blower, but with a 58 static pressure. It looks more like yours but 16 gallon with a smaller footprint than the construction version.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

ghostrider said:


> How significant is the static pressure?
> 
> They have another one that is similar in numbers with a detachable blower, but with a 58 static pressure. It looks more like yours but 16 gallon with a smaller footprint than the construction version.


The difference between 58 and 60" of static pressure,,, much less than I have any means to measure or quantify.
I think Shop vacs Industrial SR line may use a seperate cooling fan. They do use reluctance motors, are significantly more powerful, have 10 year warranties and cost about $500. 
Something I liked, but can't afford. 
http://www.shopvacstore.com/product/-industrial-sr-vac-12-gal12-amps


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

I ended up getting the 16 gal, 6.5hp Contractor from Lowes.

http://www.shopvac.com/wet-dry-vacs/default.aspx?series=Lowe%27s+Wet%2fDry+Vac

I also picked up a Dust Deputy that I'm hoping to find a 7 gallon bucket for. I hope this dose the job. If it doesn't I'll probably have to return it and get the DC from Harbor Freight, or PSI as they have one for $219. 

I'll put the HEPA filter on it when I get back home. 

This thing is huge! I didn't think it looked any wider than the 12 gallon, just taller. It's difficult to tell when they keep them on a shelf that starts at shoulder level. 

I did manage to find a Ridgid that I scooped up on "open box" price at a significant discount (minus a few attachments), but decide to go with the 16 gal. Shop-Vac instead thinking it would give me better performance. http://www.homedepot.com/buy/ridgid...th-detachable-blower-wd1280.html#.UKFm8YaWGyM

One thing is certain is that it's definitely quieter than my 10 gallon Shop-Vac.


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

Now that I've looked at the shop vac, the lid appears to be loose on it, and am still wondering where the advantage is of this to the dust collector.

Both of these look smaller than a shop vac. 

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC660P.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gallon-industrial-portable-dust-collector-31810.html


I still don't understand the how the difference between high suction low volume, and low suction high volume will affect my situation.


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## ghostrider (Oct 31, 2012)

jschaben said:


> The difference between 58 and 60" of static pressure,,, much less than I have any means to measure or quantify.
> I think Shop vacs Industrial SR line may use a seperate cooling fan. They do use reluctance motors, are significantly more powerful, have 10 year warranties and cost about $500.
> Something I liked, but can't afford.
> http://www.shopvacstore.com/product/-industrial-sr-vac-12-gal12-amps


In case your interested:

http://www.sears.com/shopvac-12-gal-12-a-sr-industrial-wet/p-00913407000P?prdNo=22


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