# Baltic Birch plywood?



## hands made for wood

My Dad and I are building cabinets for the kitchen and we have been discussing whether it is worth the money to use baltic birch instead of about 6-ply maple plywood. Windsor plywood has a 5x5 ft. 3/4 in. baltic birch plywood for about $70 where as at home depot you can get a 8x4 ft. maple plywood for close to half the price... what would your advice be? is it worth the money?


----------



## cabinetman

hands made for wood said:


> My Dad and I are building cabinets for the kitchen and we have been discussing whether it is worth the money to use baltic birch instead of about 6-ply maple plywood. Windsor plywood has a 5x5 ft. 3/4 in. baltic birch plywood for about $70 where as at home depot you can get a 8x4 ft. maple plywood for close to half the price... what would your advice be? is it worth the money?



I would go to the store and select some good 4'x8' 3/4" maple ply and save the money. I would use 1/2" BB for the drawers.


----------



## Just Bill

What he said. If this will be finished naturally, baltic birch is not the better choice.


----------



## TexasTimbers

Dayyyyum. I didn't know BB had gotten that high.


----------



## Rob

Just my 2 cents...you get what you pay for. Does this Windsor plywood carry any good 3/4" maple/birch? What you are going to get at the big box stores is absolutely junk and is getting worse every month.


----------



## nicole

*plywood*

Levi , what part of the country are you in? There are more resonable suppliers than Windsor Glen.


----------



## hands made for wood

hey Bill, we had decided to go with white painted cupboards. Thanks for all the advice everyone! I appreciate it!


----------



## cabinetdesigner

I recently bought some baltic birch from a saw mill. Excellent material . however i did not buy enough and could not make it back to the saw mill. so I went to home depot and bought a sheet of 1/2" 4x8 birch . I figured it would not mater all I had left to cut was the drawer bottoms. When I cut into this plywood it was seperating like crazy. I loaded the wood back up and took it back and got another sheet. Cut into that sheet it was the same way finnally I just cut around the waste and got the job done with a lot of waste. Next time I will wait and get the baltic birch.


----------



## Dave (PacNW)

*Don't you just LOVE chinese crap!*

The last "Baltic Birch" (1/2") I bought was so bad :furious:that you could not cut it with a new 80 tooth Melamine Blade with out it splintering all to hell. The outer layer would just fall off and was so soft that A stick of chalk would dent it. We don't even talk about the Borg stuff. I now bite the bullet an use only American made ApplePly for drawers at $130 a sheet it is a bite, but the sheets are 4X8 not 5X5 (32 sq/ft not 25 sq/ft) the lack of aggravation is worth the difference in price

Dave (PacNW)


----------



## Leo G

I use 5/8" Euro Maple plywood for my drawers. About $100/sht. 9 plys, I make dovetail drawers


----------



## scribbles

Those drawers are beautiful. I have been using birch, but the non import stuff is geting so expensive that maple is about the same cost. The birtch seems to be getting worse and worse.


----------



## scribbles

Are you using undermount slides?


----------



## Leo G

Thanks about the drawers. Yes, Blum Tandems.


----------



## BigRob

Hi, I'm new to the forum, but wanted to put my two cents in on this.
Generally speaking, the only time I think it would be worth the money to go with an Apple or Euro Ply is if you are joining the ends or your fiinished product will have exposed edges like in the drawer pictures above, which are beautiful by the way. I will say that I am biased against Chinese plywood of any type,( I have worked in west coast plywood manufacturing for 20 years) and have heard too many horror stories to count, but if you are getting true Baltic Birch from Russia or Poland, the quality should be good. The Chinese are masters of misrepresenting product, i.e. marketing a product as Baltic Birch when it really isnt, and the big box stores buy a lot of low qualty Chinese product to keep their price points low. If you want to make sure to get true Baltic Birch core plywood, or any other plywood for that matter, that won't delam when you cut it, I would take Dave's advice above and find product that is produced in either the U.S. or Canada. The price will be higher but you should have much better luck as to the quality of the panel, and a lot less waste.


----------



## TexasTimbers

Welcome BigRob. I agree with you the BB I used to buy at my local FoxGal was from Russia and I loved it. Took some getting used to the 5' x 5' size but it was worth getting used to for the great quality. 

It's not mandatory but hows about intro-ing yourself in the Intro section. You seem like you'll be right handy to have around. :thumbsup:


----------



## hands made for wood

thanks so much for the advice I will definitely look out for the Chinese made BB and see if we would be able to get some Russian or as you said North America BB... thanks again.


----------



## mtgrizzly52

cabinetdesigner said:


> I recently bought some baltic birch from a saw mill. Excellent material . however i did not buy enough and could not make it back to the saw mill. so I went to home depot and bought a sheet of 1/2" 4x8 birch . I figured it would not mater all I had left to cut was the drawer bottoms. When I cut into this plywood it was seperating like crazy. I loaded the wood back up and took it back and got another sheet. Cut into that sheet it was the same way finnally I just cut around the waste and got the job done with a lot of waste. Next time I will wait and get the baltic birch.


Hi All,

A newby here to the forum, but just had to weigh in on this. First of all, Maple plywood *drool* Not going to find that in Montana anywhere, and for $35 a sheet. I would die and go to heaven on that one!!!!.

Second of all, I've been birch plywood at Lowes (3/4") for some workshop cabinets. It costs $40.00 a sheet here. The other day I ran into Home Depot, and they also had some 3/4" birch plywood for the same price. (in the past, it's always been $50.00 a sheet) Because it had dropped in price and I was there, I picked up the HD plywood. The next day, a friend of mine who is a furniture and cabinet maker (nothing but top end stuff) and we got into a discussion about the Lowes vs HD plywood. He convinced me in a heart beat that the quality of birch plywood that HD is junk compared with Lowes and it is quite obvious. Take a look at the number of layers how they are constructed from a piece of Lowes and HD, and it will be very obvious to you as well that the HD plywood is JUNK! Greg will not buy any wood at HD as a matter of fact.

As much as I hate the box stores, that is the only reasonable choice out here in the wilds of Montana, and this amateur will be sticking with only Lowes lumber in the future.

Rick (mtgrizzly52)


----------



## WarnerConstInc.

I get the russian BB at my lumber yard for 45 bucks a sheet, 4x8, 1/2" thick.


----------



## hands made for wood

mtgrizzly52 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> A newby here to the forum, but just had to weigh in on this. First of all, Maple plywood *drool* Not going to find that in Montana anywhere, and for $35 a sheet. I would die and go to heaven on that one!!!!.
> 
> (mtgrizzly52)


Hey Rick sorry I have to apologize I have no idea where I got the $35 from I don't think I was thinking of the right plywood.... we ended up getting some birch plywood form Rona which I have been very impressed with, though, not baltic birch but it does have about 11 plys


----------



## skymaster

Try searching all the suppliers in your area and if you can, go with Norbord ply, canadian made and really really good and reasonable.
Havent bought in a while but I was getting shop birch 3/4 for 45 and prefinished 3/4 Maple 2 sides for 75. 
Norbord is a brand


----------



## beerdog

The messages keep saying birch plywood. Isn't BALTIC birch very different than plain birch? In my neck of the wwods the price difference between baltic and plain birch is large.


----------



## Leo G

Baltic Birch is a multi layer plywood, usually 9 layers or more, while Birch plywood is usually 5 layers.


----------



## edp

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I get the russian BB at my lumber yard for 45 bucks a sheet, 4x8, 1/2" thick.


You can surely get "Birch Veneered" plywwod in that size for that price but you are NOT getting Russian BB (Baltic Birch) in that size for that price.

Ed


----------



## Julian the woodnut

Ed, I have to disagree with you. The local menards carries russian birch 4x8 sheets. Yes it DOES come in 4x8 sheets, and before you tell me I don't know what russian or baltic, or finnish, or aircraft ply is, I have to tell you that yes I do. I was skeptical at first when I heard that a borg store was carrying it, but yes it is the real thing. The catch is that it's the lesser bb and sometimes even cp grade. As long as there is a large enough pile to go through, you can find quality sheets, and the 3/4 is only $60.


----------



## WarnerConstInc.

Yes, and it is way nicer than Menards stock.


----------



## Rob

This is where I buy most of my ply.
Here's their link for BB and Europly panels.
http://www.russellplywood.com/multiplypanels.html
The last sheet of 1/2" true baltic birch I bought was $138.00 for a 4 x 8 sheet.


----------



## Julian the woodnut

Wow, Rob, you sure like to spend the money! Even 5x5 sheets from my local hardwood dealer that are grade B are only $35 for 1/2", and $50 for 3/4. I can't see a 4x8 being that much more since there is only 7 square feet more of material.


----------



## Leo G

I get the Euro Maple and only spend about $100 a sheet. It is a 48 1/2 x 96 1/2 and 5/8" thick with 9 plys. It is a B grade on both sides. Much better than the Baltic birch or the Russian birch.


----------



## yeqifan

skymaster said:


> Try searching all the suppliers in your area and if you can, go with Norbord ply, canadian made and really really good and reasonable.
> Havent bought in a while but I was getting shop birch 3/4 for 45 and prefinished 3/4 Maple 2 sides for 75.
> Norbord is a brand


We are producing UV Prefinished Cherry, Maple, *Birch*, Alder, Kahay and Sapele *Plywood.* Many US company are buying our plywood. It is the lower cost and the quality is better than that before 2005. 
The prices will be 30-40USD per sheet to US port. We also are supplying some furniture factroies.

If you need any help, please feel free to let us know.


----------



## frostr2001w

I was under the impression that true Baltic Birch came in only 5X5 yet I see that this gentleman at Warner construction refers to 4x8 ???


----------



## APJ

Heres some prices from my local lumber yard 

http://www.peacocklumber.ca/products.php



*Birch (Rotary) Plywood per sheet*
Core Grade	2 x 4	2 x 8‚
4 x 4	3 x 7	4 x 8
3mm Veneer G1S (AW4*) 20.79 31.95
5.2mm Veneer G1S (A4W1*) 9.95 18.95 33.95
1/4 (G/Sol) Veneer B2 45.95
1/4 Domestic Veneer G1S (A4) 39.95
1/2 (S2S)Paint Grade Veneer S2S (D3) 45.95
3/8 Veneer B2 51.75
18mm( Import ) Veneer BW2W 51.95
3/4 (B2) Domestic Veneer B2 20.85 37.70 68.35
3/4” (D3) Paint Grade-Domestic Veneer S2S (D3) 53.75
9/16 Particle B2 15.05 25.75 44.75
1/2 Veneer B2 17.40 33.25 60.50
18mm paint grade (Imported) Veneer DW3W 41.15
3/4 Particle B2 14.29 27.40 47.65

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________-*
(2/10/2009) *Baltic Birch Plywood *(Ideal for Scroll Work) per sheet
Grade No. of ply in Core Core 5 x 5’	5 x 10’
1/8” (4mm) BB/BB 3 Veneer 18.95 
1/4 (6mm) BB/BB 5 Veneer 22.75 
3/8 (9mm) BB/BB 7 Veneer 30.75 
1/2 (12mm) BB/BB 9 Veneer 35.95 
5/8 (15mm) BB/BB 11 Veneer 44.95 
3/4” (18mm) BB/BB 13 Veneer 52.50 169.50
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*Maple *(Rotary Sliced) Plywood per sheet
Core Grade	4 x 8
1/8 Veneer G/Sol (AW2) 34.95
1/4” (5.2mm) Veneer G1S (AW4) 47.95
1/4 (AW2) Veneer G/Sol (AW2) 49.65
1/2 Veneer G/Sol (AW2)) 65.95
3/4 (AW2 WF Domestic) Veneer G/Sol (AW2 WF) 77.25
3/4 (B2W2 Import) Veneer G/Sol (B2W2) 60.95
3/4 (D3) Veneer S2S (D3) 54.25
3/4” (AW2 Domestic) Veneer G/Sol (AW2) 75.95
5/8 (AW2 WF) Veneer G/Sol (AW2)) 70.75
(10/14/2009) Red Oak (Flat Sliced) Plywood per sheet
Core Grade 2 x 4 2 x 8‚
4 x 4 3 x 7 4 x 8	4 x 10
3mm Veneer G1S (A4*) 15.95 25.95 
1/2 Veneer G/Sol (A2) 64.35 
1/4 (A4-G1S) TV Veneer G1S (A4*) 32.95 
1/4 (G/Sol A2) Perf. G/Sol (A2) 53.35 
5.2mm Veneer G1S (A4*) 8.50 15.40 28.95 129.95
1/2” Particle G/Sol (A2) 54.45 
3/4 (4x10) Veneer G1S (A4) 169.45
18mm(G/Sol A2 Import) Veneer G/Sol (A2) 65.45 
3/4 (G/Sol A2 Domestic) Veneer G/Sol (A2) 24.25 45.2 69.85 
3/4 Particle G/Sol (A2) 18.40 35.20 58.50 
3/4” (G1S) Particle G1S (A4) 52.50


----------



## Leo G

What is with the different prices? Which is the real price?


----------



## APJ

http://www.peacocklumber.ca/PriceBookContents.asp

Click on page numbers to see product and prices


----------



## beerdog

Well, I was at my local hardwood supplier and the old timer gave me an education in plywood. He said regular hardwood plywood (birch, oak, maple,etc) will be layers of soft and hard woods. There may or may not be any layers from the same wood as the veneer. Baltic birch is all birch. Every layer is the same hard wood and there are virtually no voids. This makes it much more stable than regular hardwood and is why you can get a near perfect edge. It is also why is more expensive.I will not even go into all the details on why to steer clear of the chineese stuff.


----------



## APJ

beerdog said:


> Well, I was at my local hardwood supplier and the old timer gave me an education in plywood. He said regular hardwood plywood (birch, oak, maple,etc) will be layers of soft and hard woods. There may or may not be any layers from the same wood as the veneer. Baltic birch is all birch. Every layer is the same hard wood and there are virtually no voids. This makes it much more stable than regular hardwood and is why you can get a near perfect edge. It is also why is more expensive.I will not even go into all the details on why to steer clear of the chineese stuff.


It's just plain common sence why you should'nt buy the Chinese stuff. 
Also you get what you pay for theses days , not like the olden days where every thing you bought was qualtity _and made in America:thumbsup:_


----------



## Bcooptx

The imported (China) plywood has not worked out for me no matter if from the big stores or from specialty hardwood supplier. The panels warp and twist and have dog legs and can not be counted on to provide a flat surface. I ended up spending $75 a sheet for domestic stain grade (A-1) birch even though I painted the project. Ouch but cheap compared to the wasted time trying to save $30/sheet. The import core material does not seem to be placed in uniform layers during manufacturing and to veneer must be painted on to be so thin.


----------



## RickM1

I'm getting ready to do a freebee for my son and DIL, fireplace surround w/ base cabinets and bookshelves. Because of their limited budget I was planning on using birch plywood from the borg. I am familiar with the piss poor quality of some of this stuff from previous experiences. After reading here that Lowes had better plywood and to avoid Home Depot's like the plague, I went to Lowes today, but I passed on their plywood. Stamped Made in China and rough as a cob, so I went to Home Depot and there the employee told me they no longer get the Chinese stuff and sure enough, stamped on the edge Made in USA. He said it comes out of South Carolina. Cost was $39.95. Bought 6 sheets and we will see how it goes. I think for this application (fireplace surround) it should be alright....hopefully.


----------



## klawman

beerdog said:


> The messages keep saying birch plywood. Isn't BALTIC birch very different than plain birch? In my neck of the wwods the price difference between baltic and plain birch is large.


I am a newbie just learning to fix things up around the home, but I can comment on 3/4" ply from HD and Lowes. I bought a couple of sheets to make a cabinet stand for my chop saw. Both the guys at Lowes and HD recommended Auroco (sp) for about $35 over the $40 dollar birch they were selling. This one face Birch ply had quite a few patches and defects on the show side. I wouldn't say it was junk, but only that it is good enough for a power tool stand but I wouldn't use it for anything better.

Someone at the DYI chatroom had recommended Baltic Birch. Baltic is quite a bit different from the $40 Birch sold by Lowes and HD. Look at the number of plys and the lack of voids. I didn't go with it because I didn't see why anyone would pay that much plywood. It was around $75 a sheet and it is hard to find full 8X4 sheets of it.


----------



## tccoggs

After having the chinese garbage for $35 a sheet for the last few years, my local HD is stocking Columbia Maple ply for $39 a sheet. The extra $4 a sheet is more than worth it, and $39 is much cheaper than the local plywood supplier, nevermind I can pickup sheet on the weekends and nights.

The Baltic Birch at the local lowes is stamped Made in Ecuador.


----------



## Cincinnati

skymaster said:


> Try searching all the suppliers in your area and if you can, go with Norbord ply, canadian made and really really good and reasonable.
> Norbord is a brand


Thanks skymaster. Never heard of Norbord, Is it like Appleply?


----------



## Cincinnati

Wow! Yaqifan from China. Welcome.

What does "quality is better than that before 2005." mean? Is it true hardwood with formaldehyde free glue? Or is it stained with maple, cherry, etc. stain?


----------



## Cincinnati

RickM1 said:


> ... I went to Lowes today, but I passed on their plywood. Stamped Made in China and rough as a cob, so I went to Home Depot and there the employee told me they no longer get the Chinese stuff and sure enough, stamped on the edge Made in USA. ....


Thank you. Haven't seen Made in USA in our local stores, But I will look next time I'm at Lowes.

Bought a stack of it at HD in 1995 for cabinets in my photography studio. In about 2005 tried to buy more, every palette of 40 sheets was warped and bowed. One palette sprung into a bow of 8 inches in center of the 8' length as soon as the banding was cut.

This could be a breath of fresh air. Maybe Lowes and HD finally realized the cheap junk was hurting their business.


----------



## beerdog

MY HD sells aott of south american stuff. What I havenoticed is the reallygood stuff is either american or canadian.


----------



## bugsysiegals

I really love the finished color of this piece, would you please share what you finished it with?


----------



## John Smith_inFL

Bugsy - this is a ten (10) year old thread - which post are you referring to ??

.


----------



## hawkeye10

There is some pretty interesting reading even tho it's over 10 years old.


----------



## bugsysiegals

Leo G said:


> I use 5/8" Euro Maple plywood for my drawers. About $100/sht. 9 plys, I make dovetail drawers


I love the finish color ... what did you use? Also, how did you prevent tear out on the dovetails?


----------



## bargoon

Windsor Plywood in my area also sells prefinished birch plywood for cabinet carcasses. The ones I saw were 4 x 8 sheets. Depending on your design there might be less wastage.


----------



## GCTony

I picked up a sheet of 3/4 birch from the big box. Purebond I think it was called. GARBAGE. How can a finished grade plywood that costs $53 be filled with hollow voids? An extra 15 minutes down the road to my cabinet supplier for a sheet of Baltic Birch (BB grade) for half the cost, $27 sheet would have been well worth the trip.

i need to figure out who can get that Windsor/Euro Maple stuff for me locally. I don't think Wurth stocks it.


----------



## Leo G

Because Box store plywood is bottom of the barrel. If you get plywood from a supplier you aren't paying $53/sheet if you are buying a single sheet. C3 is $80 +/- in single sheets. A1 has gone over $120/sheet.


----------



## bugsysiegals

Leo G said:


> Because Box store plywood is bottom of the barrel. If you get plywood from a supplier you aren't paying $53/sheet if you are buying a single sheet. C3 is $80 +/- in single sheets. A1 has gone over $120/sheet.


I get 3/4” Maple 1 side pre-finished A1 for $60 a sheet but that’s because I’ve a friend who owns a custom cabinet shop. When I called the same supplier to ask about pricing they told me $150-$180!! That said, perhaps you can call nearby cabinet shops and they’d be willing to sell you a pallet of 10 pieces for a small up charge compared to buying directly from the supplier.


----------



## GCTony

Out of curiosity, I looked up some past invoices from our supply house that some may find useful (FWIW) 
a sheet of 3/4" B2 maple is $68.00
a sheet of 3/4" B2 maple, prefinished both sides costs me $91.00.
a sheet 3/4 of A1 maple costs $140
a sheet of 3/4 A1 natural birch is $80

I'm not a big buyer so I'm not getting the best pricing


----------



## B Coll

Drawers look good. I have always used soft maple, which is probably a bit cheaper. But the time saved S4S and dimensioning would easily be worth the added expense.


----------

