# reccomendations for a sliding compound miter saw



## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

Hello again,

I am in the process of renovation my shop and I think I am going to replace my 10" radial saw with a sliding miter saw. Mostly the radial saw just takes up too much space and isn't exactly portable, but also I would like something with a more precise fence and easier adjustments. I want a sliding saw so I can cut larger widths and I think a laser would be nice.

I don't use this kind of thing often, so I really don't feel like paying $500, but I do like quality tools. I guess I would like a good tool, but it doesn't need to be able to stand up to being thrown into the back of a truck 15 times a week. I don't mind refurbished either.

I have both a Lowes and HD near hear and have also bought online from Tyler Tool.

Thanks for the suggestions.

*LMHmedchem*


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

Hitachi is the most well designed and Accurate saw in the market IMO


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## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

MastersHand said:


> Hitachi is the most well designed and Accurate saw in the market IMO


Could you recommend a model that might meet my needs? I guess I would like to pay less than $300, but lower is better. I have been looking at factory reconditioned stuff, since I think you can get a better model for similar money that way. Let me know if you think that's not a good idea.

This is not bad,*
*Hitachi C12RSH 12" Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw w/ Laser Marker (Reconditioned) ($285)
but is at the upper end of what I want to pay unless there is an overpowering reason to get something better.

This also looks good but is out of stock,
Hitachi C8FSHE 8-1/2" Sliding Compound Miter Saw with Twin Rail, Laser Guide and Work Light ($240)

LMHmedchem


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## dwendt1978 (Mar 13, 2010)

I have to cast my vote for the Ridgid 12" slider. Wonderful tool.


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## firehawkmph (Apr 26, 2008)

LM,
I have using a 10" hitachi ever since that model came out. It doesn't have the laser, save your money, you don't need one. The laser's are a gimmick. I haven't found a need for a 12" saw yet. Besides that, 10" blades are less expensive. If you buy a quality saw, it will likely last you forever. I also bought a Bosch 10" slider a couple of years ago. It has a lot of really nice features that most other saws don't have. I use it specificully for crown molding. Stay away from the cheapies, you get what you pay for. You may want to keep an eye out on Craigslist for a nice used one. 
Mike Hawkins


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## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

dwendt1978 said:


> I have to cast my vote for the Ridgid 12" slider. Wonderful tool.


It this is the one you mean,
RIDGID 12-Inch Sliding Compound Miter Saw w/ Laser ZRMS1209LZA (Reconditioned) ($393)

I would say that is out of my price range, even reconditioned. What is there about this that you see as preferable to the Hitachi C12RSH? Do you believe that a 12" is preferable? I would guess that larger blade is useful since you cannot adjust the height of the saw over the deck like you can a radial saw, or is that not correct?



firehawkmph said:


> LM,
> I have using a 10" hitachi ever since that model came out. It doesn't have the laser, save your money, you don't need one. The laser's are a gimmick. I haven't found a need for a 12" saw yet. Besides that, 10" blades are less expensive. If you buy a quality saw, it will likely last you forever. I also bought a Bosch 10" slider a couple of years ago. It has a lot of really nice features that most other saws don't have. I use it specificully for crown molding. Stay away from the cheapies, you get what you pay for. You may want to keep an eye out on Craigslist for a nice used one.
> Mike Hawkins


What is the Bosch model that you have? I almost never buy cheep tools, but I find that "high-end" doesn't always get you more than the higher price and a sticker that says "high-end". I perfectly understand that there is a difference between home use and professional use tools. If I was running a contracting business, I would think differently I'm sure. I probably only use tools like this a few times a year, but when I do use them, it is nice to have something that works the way it's supposed to without a big hassle. I guess it would be nice to know what you consider a "cheep" saw.

Do you think it makes sense to get a reconditioned model or will I not save much over a new one? My brother in law has a DeWalt DW744XR table saw that he picked up at a repair shop for the unpaid $60 repair bill. It was almost brand new and I was pretty surprised that no one at the repair shop snagged it for themselves. It would be nice to run into something like that, but I won't hold my breath. I am looking at Craig's list though.

This is what is available on Craig's list at the moment,
Craftsman 10'' Single Bevel Sliding Compound Miter Saw ($185)
Craftsman 12" dual bevel sliding miter saw professional ($250)
Craftsman 12" Sliding Miter Saw, new and complete ($275)
Rigid 12" sliding compound miter saw ($350)
Rigid 12" sliding compound miter saw ($350)

For either of the two Rigid's, I would see if the seller would come down under $300.

*LMHmedchem*


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

I think ultimately you have to nail down two things.

1. What your real budget is
2. What size/type of miater saw do you need, 10/12" single/double bevel fixed/sliding

You can spend under $100 to WELL over $1,000 on a miter saw.

With miter saws you pretty much get what you pay for, there are generally three price ranges Harbor Freight (which honestly may work for your 1-2 times a year needs) the mid level which is going to include all the "standard" names (Dewalt, Bosch, Ridgid, Hitachi, Makita, Milwaukee etc) the the premium lines like Festool, OMGA and Metabo. 

Once you nail down your budget and exactly what type of capacity you need and thus the saw to handle it without over spending on capacity it will be much easier for people to give recommendations.


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## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

Huxleywood said:


> I think ultimately you have to nail down two things.
> 
> 1. What your real budget is
> 2. What size/type of miater saw do you need, 10/12" single/double bevel fixed/sliding
> ...


Well I can answer some of those.

1. I believe I need a sliding saw.
2. I would say that my budget is between $150 and $350. This is harder to nail down because I don't know enough about the tools in question. If someone were to say that I couldn't possibly get a decent tool for less than $400, then I would have to think about my current plan. I also think this is harder to nail down on the secondary and reconditioned market. If a top quality tool came along (used, reconditioned, sale, etc) that cost more than $350, but was still a really good deal, that could change my thinking. I'm not sure I would want anything that cost less than $150 or so, especially new. I would guess that the quality would not be sufficient to bother with. I have bought tools in recent years that only worked a few times, and that is not what I want here. The radial saw is 30 years old and still works the same as when it was new, so I would like something I won't have to replace soon. I also fall in favor of tools that are designed to be repaired, not to be thrown away, if that makes any sense.

I have no idea what the difference is between a single and double bevel, so I would appreciate if someone could explain that part.

I think a 10" would be fine, but as above, I would get a 12" if the price was right.

One question I have is about dado blades. One thing I used the radial saw for was doing dado and rabbet cuts for shelving and such. The adjustable height of the saw made that pretty easy. Is this something that can be done on a sliding miter saw (with an adjustable height deck or something), or do I need to now do that on a table saw?

Most of what I have done with my tools could roughly be called cabinet making, though I won't overstate my case in that regard. I have made built-in shelving, and the desk I am sitting at. I have also done things with my radial saw like wood flooring, rebuilding my front porch, and even cutting up scrap for firewood. I have generally thought that the saw is the blade, mainly, but the adjustments are nice as well. Using my brother in law's table saw (with a rack and pinion fence and an accurate ruler) made me think I needed to update some of my tools. It was pretty nice to set the fence to 1" and get a 1" board.

I build computer equipment and give a fair amount of advice in that area. In that arena, I know the difference between better quality and higher price, and that they are not always the same thing. Higher price generally also means more features, but it is important to know what those features are and if they will be of use to you. You can spend $5000 on a video card and find it's lousy at playing games, since it was designed to run multiple monitors for a surveillance system, etc.

All this to say that I don't mind paying more if I am getting something for my money that will be useful to me. So in computer lingo, I am looking for my price/performance sweet spot. I'm sure that lingo applies to this kind of tool as well.

Am I thinking about this wrong by looking at used and reconditioned as well as new? I would expect that construction grade tools would be built to last and that I would get a better tool for the money by going used.

*LMHmedchem*


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

LMHmedchem said:


> Well I can answer some of those.
> 
> 1. I believe I need a sliding saw.
> 2. I would say that my budget is between $150 and $350. This is harder to nail down because I don't know enough about the tools in question. If someone were to say that I couldn't possibly get a decent tool for less than $400, then I would have to think about my current plan. I also think this is harder to nail down on the secondary and reconditioned market. If a top quality tool came along (used, reconditioned, sale, etc) that cost more than $350, but was still a really good deal, that could change my thinking. I'm not sure I would want anything that cost less than $150 or so, especially new. I would guess that the quality would not be sufficient to bother with. I have bought tools in recent years that only worked a few times, and that is not what I want here. The radial saw is 30 years old and still works the same as when it was new, so I would like something I won't have to replace soon. I also fall in favor of tools that are designed to be repaired, not to be thrown away, if that makes any sense.
> ...


Compound miter saws allow you to tilt the blade to the side, so you can make bevel cuts and compound cuts (miter + bevel). While single-bevel compound saws tilt to one side, dual-bevel saws tilt left and right, allowing you to make bevel cuts in either direction without flipping your work. Dual-bevel miter saws are best suited for applications requiring you to cut large materials or make frequent bevel cuts. 

In your price range I think it makes more sense to consider 10" saws especially when you consider adding a good blade to it. Don't expect the blade that comes with a miter saw to be much more than a place filler. 

While some CSMS's have depth adjustment screws their arbors are not built for dado stacks, you can however use a very narrow stack and mutiple cuts but usually there is a better way. There are some CSMSs that will work with dado stacks but WELL above your budget. 

Nothing wrong with used/recon tools, though a lot of CSMS for sale used have been abused my contractors, as long as you can evaluate them then it is a good option. Everyone has their own opinion about recon, I just avoid them since I never see the price savings is enouigh for me.

Honestly, I see the sliding miter saw as being about a $500 buy in for a quality tool unless you get a deal. I haven't had any experience with the cheaper versions. A CSMS is really all about accuracy and precision without them they tend to be worthless, I am sure there are some cheaper ones that do a fine job I just can't say which they are.


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## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks for the information. After looking at some models at HD and Lowes, it think the Hitachi design looks like it would meet my needs the best. Many of the sliding saws seem to require allot of room behind the saw to use it in the position closest to the fence. The Hitachi slide begins at the back of the saw and moves forward so seems to require allot less room behind the saw, which could be an issue for me.

There are some options for this like the Hitachi C10FSH and C10FSB. The seem to go about $500 new and ~$300-$350 reconditioned, but it is hard to find reconditioned in stock.

Can anyone recommend other models for me to look at that don't require allot of space behind the saw?

This is another good looking saw at a reasonable price,
Bosch 5312-RT 12-in Dual-Bevel Slide Miter Saw with Upfront Controls and Range Selector Knob ($400 Reconditioned)

This doesn't appear to require a huge amount of room behind the saw, but it is hard to tell without seeing it in person.

*LMHmedchem*


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

IMO 12" Sliding Compound saw are not good for Precision . You are really not gaining capacity of cut either . All my Trim , Crown Base etc I cut on the Flat. With the 12" there is to much deflection in the blade and you never get a true cut. I cut even the smallest of crowns on the flat with my 10" hitachi and large Crown as well. Once you understand this system You will never cut crown the other way.I do recommend though the Bosch Digital Bevel Gauge and Crown Calculator.

It's Simple you determine your spring which is the angle from which the Crown springs from the wall. One you have this Degree hit enter in gauge. Now the spring is saved in device put bevel gauge to the corner your working with . If Your trimming cabinets just set it to 90 and hit enter. It gives you bevel of saw, hit enter again and it gives you Miter.

This is very important because the Crown Preset on the saw are only for standard 38 and 45 Degrees. A lot especially large crowns vary and you must determine there spring. Using this system also makes Coping a breeze because your cuts are To whatever angles are in the room.


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## dwendt1978 (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay....If you have a RAS the you really don't need a CSMS. Just a miter saw will work. I was using my father-in-law's 10" miter saw for the longest time before I got my Ridgid 12" slider. It was a great saw and only 99.00 new. But it couldn't 45 a 2x6. So a 12" would be better and only cost maybe 150 new. 

A MS will not work with dadoes like a RAS will. My Ridgid doesn't suffer from deflection for trim work but like you said is out of your price range. I would choose a 10" or 12" regular miter saw then. Like a Craftsman or Ridgid. I believe the Ridgid is 199 for the 10" and 299 for the 12". Just my 2 cents.


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## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

MastersHand said:


> IMO 12" Sliding Compound saw are not good for Precision . You are really not gaining capacity of cut either . All my Trim , Crown Base etc I cut on the Flat. With the 12" there is to much deflection in the blade and you never get a true cut. I cut even the smallest of crowns on the flat with my 10" hitachi and large Crown as well. Once you understand this system You will never cut crown the other way.I do recommend though the Bosch Digital Bevel Gauge and Crown Calculator.
> 
> It's Simple you determine your spring which is the angle from which the Crown springs from the wall. One you have this Degree hit enter in gauge. Now the spring is saved in device put bevel gauge to the corner your working with . If Your trimming cabinets just set it to 90 and hit enter. It gives you bevel of saw, hit enter again and it gives you Miter.
> 
> Thus is very important because the Crown Preset on the saw are only for standard 38 and 45 Degrees. A lot especially large crowns vary and you must determine there spring. Using thus system also makes Coping a breeze because your cuts are To whatever angles are in the room.


I am sort of leaning towards this at the moment,
Hitachi C12RSH 12" Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw with Laser Marker ($285 +$75 shipping Reconditioned)

Of course you just make a post about problems with 12" saws. The main issue is that this is the model with the compact slide system which means that you don't need clearance behind the saw. The place where this will go is limited in that regard and it could be an issue with some that I looked at where you had to extend the slide a couple of feet behind the saw to get the blade into the position where you would use it.

Cannot the precision be improved by cutting more slowly? I am surprised that a tool steel blade would flex that much cutting through wood. They don't seem to make this compact slide system in the 10" model. Do you know how much room you need behind the 10" version that you have (I assume this it the *C10FSB*)?

*LMHmedchem*


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## Huxleywood (Feb 24, 2012)

dwendt1978 said:


> Okay....If you have a RAS the you really don't need a CSMS. .


I think he wants to get rid of his RAS


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

LMHmedchem said:


> I am sort of leaning towards this at the moment,
> Hitachi C12RSH 12" Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw with Laser Marker ($285 +$75 shipping Reconditioned)
> 
> Of course you just make a post about problems with 12" saws. The main issue is that this is the model with the compact slide system which means that you don't need clearance behind the saw. The place where this will go is limited in that regard and it could be an issue with some that I looked at where you had to extend the slide a couple of feet behind the saw to get the blade into the position where you would use it.
> ...


If its the clearance thing go with makitas 10" it has double rail system also a great saw but I can flip and set My Hitachi twice as fast as Makita


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

If it the portability then the SCMS would be better for that but, a 12" SCMS has less cross cutting capacity then a 10" RAS it can however cut thicker wood.


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## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

MastersHand said:


> If its the clearance thing go with makitas 10" it has double rail system also a great saw but I can flip and set My Hitachi twice as fast as Makita


Is this the makita that you recommend?
Makita LS1016L-R 10-in Dual Slide Compound Miter Saw with Laser ($426 w/ship Reconditioned)

Do you know what the minimum back clearance is? I have used some Makita saws like this and I seem to remember that is stores with the slide all the way extended and you have to release the lock and slide the saw back to the position where you use it. I don't remember how much space this took up, but I seem to remember that it was some.

If you watch the youtube video at the bottom of this page, it shows you the compact slide system quite nicely.
http://bigskytool.com/Hitachi_C12RSH_12_Sliding_Dual_Compound_Miter_Saw_with_Laser_Marker_%28Reconditioned%29___i192.aspx

It would be perfect if they made this in the 10", but they don't appear to.

*LMHmedchem*


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## MastersHand (Nov 28, 2010)

The back rail is pretty much inline with the Bach of the base. You need 2 1/2 inches from wall to pivot . Why is this an issue for ya?


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## LMHmedchem (Dec 16, 2010)

MastersHand said:


> The back rail is pretty much inline with the Bach of the base. You need 2 1/2 inches from wall to pivot . Why is this an issue for ya?


Just the location where I am going to use it in my shop. There is a wall behind where my radial saw currently is and many of the miter saws I have looked at would need to be moved 2 feet or more out from the wall in order to slide the saw into cutting position. That would be an issue for where I'm putting it. This is not a concern for the radial saw.

I have attached two captures form a video on the Hitachi.

You can see that in the normal position, the slides stick out quite far behind the saw. I have seen this in the other sliding saws I have used and looked at. Sometimes the slide stick out even further.








This version of the Hitachi has a second "compact" setup mode shown here.








The slides now project toward the user and don't take up space behind the saw. In this mode, I could place the saw right up against the wall without any issue. The video demonstrates this if you want to see more, or if I'm not explaining well.

I also think that the ~$350 price tag (shipped) is about as good as I'm going to get for a good tool. If you think the 12" format is really bad, then I guess I will have to keep looking.

*LMHmedchem*


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