# A chess table (tearing itself apart).



## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

So this was probably my first showcase worthy project. 





























Sorry for the bad pictures I did this with my phone. Last year my mom wanted me to help her purchase a chess table for my dad for his birthday so my girls could play chess with him. After seeing what was available on Amazon and being disappointed I decide to take it all myself. What emboldened me to do it, however, was Steve Ramsey's excellent YouTube demonstration of how to make one. I pretty much owe it all to him. His table did not have a stand so I had to come up with that on my own, and that worked pretty well.

Several months later I'm over at their house and I happened to notice something. The end of the chessboard is lifting up. I was annoyed by it but didn't think it was going to be a major problem. Now several more months have passed and it is a major problem.































When I first glued the board itself together, I glued it down on a relatively thin piece of plywood, to give it some stability. When I check on it the next day, I already noticed that it had a very slight warp to it. I disregarded it, and moved on. As you can see, that was a mistake.

The board itself has pulled apart the plywood it was glued to. You can see in the last pic that the plywood is still glued in place underneath. so it actually delaminated it.

I can only GUESS that this is because of not fully dried wood...but I've used that same walnut in countless other projects without problems, so it must be the hickory I used. I really find it hard to believe, though, with all of those individual squares that it still managed to warp that whole side of the board evenly like that.

I had hope it would go un-noticed except by me...but when my Mom brought it to my attention and expressed confidence I could fix it, well there went that idea. Of course, I'd actually like it if the board lasted longer than a year anyway, so I guess it's for the best.

I'm certainly open to suggestions about how to do this. The only thing I can think of is to tear out (carefully) the existing board and replace it with a new one. Heck, the way it's going, it might save me the trouble of removing it! :thumbdown: I'm sure I can build a support underneath for it, since I can access through the drawers.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm going to make a few observations.

First, you did a bang up job on a very nice piece and its a shame that it is coming apart on you now. That is very frustrating when it happens.

From the looks of the photos, you laid all the grain in the same direction. If I were making it, I would have turned every other piece 90 degrees so the grain formed crosses rather than straight lines.

I think I would have glued it to a piece of heavy canvas rather than thin plywood that was already slightly bowed. Then I would have used a heavier piece of MDF for a solid base and left room for the actual playing surface to expand. I then would have build some kind of frame that sat over the playing field around the edges to hold it in place.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

One of the many things I've learned in woodworking is this: Rule #1 - Wood moves. Rule #2 - You and I can't change Rule #1. When I had my woodworking business doing a lot of restorations, refinishing, and repairs, along with designing and building custom furniture, I had to tell customers and interior designers this all the time. Trying to build something so rigid that it 'simply cannot move' is just delaying the inevitable so I had to modify many designs that were brought to me or else I would have been making repairs to new work in a very short period of time.

What we have to do is allow for movement with things like raised panels being allowed to 'float', tied down on one end/edge only, using quarter sawn wood where possible, etc. Putting a substrate on only one side of solid wood causes the sort of movement you're seeing in that beautiful piece you built. If you've resigned yourself to making a new board then I would first attempt to remove the ply that has delaminated and is still attached to the bottom, then give it a little time to see if it moves back. If it doesn't then you were going to make a new top anyway but I think it will move back. It really is a nice piece you've made - I like it a lot!


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## shadowjfaith (Mar 31, 2014)

Amazing job on that chess board (I've always been a bit of a chess enthusiast, just never have anyone to play against). I completely agree with Johnnie about turning the grains 90.

A few questions:

#1 What did you finish the piece with?

#2 How often was the piece cleaned, and how was it cleaned?

These could be nothing to do with the issue you have, but they could have contributed and you may want to address them so they don't happen in the future. You could always remake your chess board with the 90's on the grains and place without gluing. Given a bit of wiggle room the board should do fine.



Learning as I go, but my 2¢ from my current knowledge.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Thank you all for the comments so far.

I'm not sure how I would have turned the grain on the board squares. Those weren't put together individually....it's more like how a cutting board is put together. I glued 2" strips together, than crosscut them into 2" strips and then alternated them. That's how Steve showed to do it. 

So...gluing it down on the plywood was what caused this?? That's bizarre. I can't remember if Steve also glued his down on Plywood, but I'm thinking he did...so I'm not sure how he avoided this same fate.

Unfortunately, the plywood that the board was glued to is glued into a groove on the underside of the surrounding table top....so I don't see how I can non-destructively remove anything. The only thing I could hope is that by slowly prying up the board, I can further remove it from just the plywood until I can get some kind of chisel of something underneath it. It will leave the plywood in place, but that not going to be a problem.

Overall, I'm not fighting to save the board itself because that was actually one of the easier things to make, so making another one won't be terrible....but I definitely want to not damage every other part of the table, because that's what took so long.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

shadowjfaith said:


> A few questions:
> 
> #1 What did you finish the piece with?
> 
> #2 How often was the piece cleaned, and how was it cleaned?


It was finished with shellac....our first go with it, and it seems to have come out well. I like shellac now! So far as I know, the board hasn't been cleaned. I'm pretty sure my folks wouldn't have, or at most they'd have just wiped a cloth across it to remove dust.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

btw, here is the link to 



 that was the entire means by which I was able to make any of this.


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## shadowjfaith (Mar 31, 2014)

Well I was going to suggest a bit of heat in the form of a hair dryer or what have you to soften the glue up, but with the shellac finish it's better to not even try.

You may end up trying to wedge a chisel in there and pry it up.

It may not be so bad as it looks like the piece that came up already broke away from the glue on the plywood.

Good luck.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

Ya, I thought it had pulled the plywood apart, but upon further inspection, it does seem like it may have just broken the glue instead.

Even if I could get the heat gun under the table top (so the shellac wouldn't be an issue), then I think it would be just as likely to weaken the glue joints between the squares on the top, so I'm not sure that's a viable alternative. I'm thinking gentle prying and a chisel.


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## shadowjfaith (Mar 31, 2014)

beelzerob said:


> Even if I could get the heat gun under the table top (so the shellac wouldn't be an issue), then I think it would be just as likely to weaken the glue joints between the squares on the top, so I'm not sure that's a viable alternative. I'm thinking gentle prying and a chisel.


It could weaken the glue joints and probably would (you would have to be careful to only heat what you need and keep everything else together), but as you mentioned you're not too upset if you lose the board. It would be difficult to save the board as is with the bow anyways and personally I would say it would be easier to make a new one.

If you can get heat where you need it and not concerned about the shellac it would be something that would save the rest of the stand.

However, that being said I would still throw a chisel at it to see if heat is even necessary. It might be a couple taps with a hammer and pop.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

That is a nice piece, and I appreciate the chance to learn from your excellent post.

Does the flat screen TV or whatever next door have an internal cooling fan aiming at the table? I've seen one or two that seem to have an internal hair drier shooting out in just one direction.

Ideas for busting the glue.... a flexible flush cutting saw; 

or for a crazy experiment.... to heat, you could try using a scrap piece of flashing or HVAC tin to serve as a heat conductor. You aim the hot air gun at the metal (away from the shellac) and let the metal take just a little heat where you need it. Tape a couple layers of something around the tin leaving 1/2" exposed. The insulation reduces heating of the loose part of the top as you reach under that part to deliver a little heat to the next bit of glue. But will the glue let go faster than wood conducts waste heat to the surface shellac? Beats me. It wouldn't hurt to nibble at it over time, or try to cool the surface with something while you do it. And the insulation needs to not melt or burn at the temp you heat the metal, obviously. 

If you need to deconstruct with a deft touch, the various types of dremel tools might be useful.


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## Fishinbo (Jul 23, 2012)

Great wood selection. The structure and design is really smart. That's cool.


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 21, 2009)

if the chessboard can come out of the tabletop in one piece you might try laying it face down and sanding the remnants of the plywood off with a palm sander and 100 grit. It may gradually relax as the exposed wood loses moisture and lay flatter. Then you could build a tray for it to sit in on top of the table that doesn't use glue to hold the board down.


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## beelzerob (May 2, 2010)

I haven't yet tried to go at it yet. There's just barely room to get something under the edge and try prying up, to see if the glue between the squares is stronger than the glue on the plywood (or the glue between the plywood laminations). I'm all happy with the idea of trying to salvage the top, but I've also accepted the idea of starting from scratch. 

So, the reason for the warping is that I glued down one side? I'm fairly certain that Steve in his video tutorial also glued down one side to plywood, so how did I get so unlucky??


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

Yes sir, that's the reason. I haven't done this in a while but you can take a piece of veneer, lacquer or varnish one side, then let it set. After a few days (or sooner) you'll see it begin to curl. The side with no finish absorbs moisture at a different rate than the side with finish and the wood moves. You might be able to see it quicker by just wetting one side of a piece of veneer and watch it curl. Obviously, the thicker the wood the less this occurs but on thinner stock, like your well made chessboard squares, you'll see movement.


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm still a little confused as to why this occurred. I would think that the glue on the underside of the chess board would have prevented it from absorbing ambient moisture, so I'm unclear if the act of gluing was the problem or not.

Could it be that the unfinished plywood bottom absorbed moisture, expanded slightly, and then caused the assembly to warp? This makes sense to me, in that the plywood expanded but the chess board did not, because one side was finished (i.e. waterproofed) and the other side wasn't. If this happened, it would cause the ends to curl upward like in your photo. 

The question I have would be what are the possible solutions for this?

1. If you make it out of 1/2" wood with no plywood bottom, finished on top and bottom? (from the video, it looks like his top was about 1/4" thick)

2. If you made it exactly as you did, but just apply a finish to the bottom of the plywood? 

3. Some other solution?


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

pweller said:


> I'm still a little confused as to why this occurred. I would think that the glue on the underside of the chess board would have prevented it from absorbing ambient moisture, so I'm unclear if the act of gluing was the problem or not.
> 
> Could it be that the unfinished plywood bottom absorbed moisture, expanded slightly, and then caused the assembly to warp? This makes sense to me, in that the plywood expanded but the chess board did not, because one side was finished (i.e. waterproofed) and the other side wasn't. If this happened, it would cause the ends to curl upward like in your photo.
> 
> ...


Gluing with yellow glue or hide glue introduces moisture into the wood, albeit temporarily, and if the wood moves from this moisture it will usually move back (sometimes completely). Gluing with epoxy or urea resin glues does not introduce moisture or if they do it is very minimal. Glue does not seal the wood from taking on additional moisture, though. A coating of glue may slow the ingress of moisture to that side of the wood but it also slows the egress of moisture (makes the wood retain the moisture longer). 

The thinner the wood the more this effect is amplified. Plywood is more stable than solid lumber or veneer and likely did not swell. What it did is change the dynamics - one side of the board had plywood and glue, the other did not. While neither the plywood nor the glue completely sealed the underside it did seal sufficiently to offset the moisture being absorbed through the finish on the top side. Generally what you do to one side of a panel or board you need to do to the other side, as well. There are always exceptions to this, though - using quarter sawn wood, veneering both sides, purpose built bowed panels, etc.

In this case, it would have been better to glue the squares together to form the top, do whatever sanding or scraping is needed to level the surface, then apply finish to both sides. Now, it isn't necessary to put the same number of coats top and bottom. If you're spraying lacquer, for instance, you can spray a couple of wet coats of sanding sealer on the bottom side then concentrate on the top with a handful of coats. If you're using an oil finish then just put some on the bottom and let it soak in for a bit, then when it's dry enough flip it over and work on the top.

When it comes to securing the top to that nice frame that he made, a couple of cleats to fasten underneath would hold the top just fine. Just make them to allow for movement, let the top float but not come out (in other words, don't make them to 'lock' the top in place).

Sorry for this getting wordy but it's a topic that I can't cover in a few lines. Also, I get wordy anyway... :blink:

Hope this isn't too confusing and helped in some small way.


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## pweller (Mar 10, 2014)

Difalkner, thanks for the detailed response - it generally cleared things up.

I recently refinished some old solid maple furniture. Much of that was about 1/2" hardwood. Of course, being production furniture, the inside surface of it appeared to be completely unfinished (on a dresser or nightstand with drawers). Over many years, and even moves from NE area to the desert southwest, it didn't warp all out of shape.

So, is 1/4" considered 'thin', and 1/2" or above thick enough that it doesn't need finish on both sides? I know you said thin wood is more prone to warping from uneven finishes on front/back, I was just wondering exactly what constitutes 'thin'.

Thanks.


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## difalkner (Nov 27, 2011)

In general, yes, 1/2" won't warp as easily as 1/4". But there's a lot more to it than just the thickness of the panel. How was the Maple cut - quarter/flat/rift sawn? Being factory built the wood was likely at an optimum moisture content for the piece and it is also likely the furniture was built in a controlled environment for temperature and humidity. If you build something in a wet environment, like the typical hobby shop/garage with 70%-80% humidity, and then take it into the house with climate control and humidity in the 35%-50% range, then the wood is going to move. In the shop it has taken on moisture and is at it's largest dimension. When you bring it into the house the wood shrinks because the moisture drops. Sometimes that results in warped panels, sometimes it just splits, and as luck has it - sometimes it just simply stays like you built it but I can't really explain that one. 

The factory piece was probably finished with very minimal material, just a couple of light coats. If that's the case then both sides of the boards were still able to breathe and most importantly, the _differential_ between both sides being able to breathe was not very great. All that, and given the thickness of 1/2", the wood remained stable. 

When you were in the NE the furniture was inside the house with lower humidity and where you moved to the desert area the natural humidity is low. The furniture didn't see much difference and can't really appreciate the beauty of the desert area...

David


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## davesplane (Apr 26, 2010)

I saw one time on david marks show that when ever you glue down a veneer to your substrate you need to put a veneer on the underside to prevent the top from curling or cupping.
I do not know if this is the same type of situation but I would think that you are getting movement from the top and there is nothing to counter act that movement on the bottom.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Your construction method, even without the ply will cause eventual failure.

If you entrap a square in a frame surround, the square has to be high quality plywood (not from Asia) and the chess squares should be cut as veneer pieces preferably not thicker than 1/16" then veneered onto the ply.

If the board was loose fitting in the frame, which appears to be the case in your pictures, there may still be movement. You have open air flow at the top, not the bottom, so the risk of warping remains. Also, wood movement is unfortunately not uniform, slower growing (dry years) sections of the wood rings will move at a different rate than faster growing rings. With careful orientation you can limit the movement, but never quite eliminate it. The glued up squares amplifies the problem.

Here is a build thread and table I did some time ago, hope this helps.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/chess-table-pieces-40880/

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/thingamabox-build-40684/index2/


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