# Router selection



## codgerbill (Jan 8, 2010)

I currently own a older Black & Decker 1.5HP router with a 1/4 collett. I will be upgrading to a 1/2" collett router. I am considering either the Porter Cable 893PKR or the Bosch 1617 kits. I have talked to sales people at several woodworking tool stores and they all are recommending the Bosch over the PC. I will be buying reconditioned in either case. I would like to hear some opinions of those who have either sets. Thanks in advance.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

codgerbill said:


> I currently own a older Black & Decker 1.5HP router with a 1/4 collett. I will be upgrading to a 1/2" collett router. I am considering either the Porter Cable 893PKR or the Bosch 1617 kits. I have talked to sales people at several woodworking tool stores and they all are recommending the Bosch over the PC. I will be buying reconditioned in either case. I would like to hear some opinions of those who have either sets. Thanks in advance.


I have 5 routers some porter cable and the bosch 1617 I leve the 1617 in the router table all the time I do most of my router work on the table You can't go wrong with eather If hand held work maybe the 690 porter cable would be better not so heavy the 893 would work good in the table for bigger bit's 2" and 3" Just depend's on what you are going to do If just all around round overs profile stuff again table or hand held ?? I know that mite not help in making up your mind but figure out what you are going to do first all these have 1/2" collets i belive the bosch and porter cable will have both 1/4" and 1/2" collets My bosch has all 3 collets 1/4" 1/2" 3/8" don't have any 3/8" bits but just in case i find a close out will buy them good luck making up your mind


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

C Bill,
You've asked a question that only you can answer.

The members here can only offer advice about FFB. (Features, Functions and Benefits)

When you have a router table, 90% of your routing will be done using the router table.

From a safety perspective, the large diameter router bits should NEVER, EVER be used in a hand held router.

The variable speed feature in a router is REQUIRED for large diameter router bits.

The lower Horse Power routers, when mounted in a table, may be used to swing some larger diameter router bits. The lower HP will require multiple passes to achieve the desired cut.

If there is an accessory made for a router, there is a 99.9% probability that the accessory will fit a Porter Cable router.

Some routers offer a height adjustment device that can be used on the top of the table. This precludes the need for a router lift mechanism and saves some money.

The feel and fit of the router in your hands is only something that only you can determine. Do you like it, do you hate it but can live with it, can you operate the router comfortably and safely? Go to the store and feel how the router fits YOUR hands and style. 

When I was in your position with a single 1/4" router, my next router was a 3-1/4 HP router that was permanently mounted in a router table. (I bought the top and lift but built the cabinet.) I would strongly suggest this solution.

I hope that this helps and please let us know what your final decision is.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Is this going to be for hand use or router table use?


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## Jacktoo (Oct 8, 2009)

"From a safety perspective, the large diameter router bits should NEVER, EVER be used in a hand held router."

I use a PC-690 with a D-handle and I can use any bit I choose! I've seen this safety warning before and I would like to know why people or industry feel larger bits are any more dangerous in a handheld router, than in a router table. I've contacted several companies about this matter and so far they have not given me any documented proof or test results to support this statement. If you can help with the documented proof, please do.


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## codgerbill (Jan 8, 2010)

The router will (for now) be mostly for hand use. I am currently in the process of building a router table and am looking at multiple plans. I am thinking about 20-30 inches deep and maby up to 5 feet long. From what I am seeing on the forum it looks like the plinge base might be the most useful on a router table.


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Either make will suit you well, but Rich nailed it with his _"If there is an accessory made for a router, there is a 99.9% probability that the accessory will fit a Porter Cable router" _comment. I bought a Triton recently and see that I need an adapter plate to accept Porter Cable bushings. Not a super big deal but still, it's another thing to track down and buy.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Jacktoo said:


> "From a safety perspective, the large diameter router bits should NEVER, EVER be used in a hand held router."
> 
> I use a PC-690 with a D-handle and I can use any bit I choose!


Jack,
I have no doubt that you can...

However it is my choice to:

NEVER, EVER use large diameter bits in a hand held router.


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## sofalinux (May 28, 2009)

Probably the reason for the warning is that the large bits have a much higher mass and thus, if they did break or come free from the router they are capable of scattering and causing splinter to fly every which way or if they ricochet, to fly off to a greater distance.
Basically it is the higher mass that would be the problem, in my opinion.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

codgerbill said:


> The router will (for now) be mostly for hand use. I am currently in the process of building a router table and am looking at multiple plans. I am thinking about 20-30 inches deep and maby up to 5 feet long. From what I am seeing on the forum it looks like the plinge base might be the most useful on a router table.


For hand use, buy the one that feels best in our hands then. My preference is for the Milwaukee 5615, currently on sale for $130 shipped. It has an excellent plunge base, a terrific fixed base with their "BodyGrip" feature, and is built like a tank. Comes with 1/2" and 1/4" collet, dust chute, and case.

Get a different router with variable speed, 13-15 amps, and above table features for table use.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Scott the link didn't link*

so I found this at Amazon for $130.00: 
Amazon.com: Milwaukee 5615-24 1.75-Horsepower Multi-Base Router Kit Includes Plunge Base and BodyGrip Fixed Base: Home Improvement

and this at $210,00
Amazon.com: Milwaukee 5616-24 2-¼ -Max-Horsepower EVS Multi-Base Router Kit Includes Plunge Base and BodyGrip Fixed Base: Home Improvement
:thumbsup: bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

:huh: Thanks for the heads up and the link. :thumbsup:


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## mmwood_1 (Oct 24, 2007)

daryl said:


> Probably the reason for the warning is that the large bits have a much higher mass and thus, if they did break or come free from the router they are capable of scattering and causing splinter to fly every which way or if they ricochet, to fly off to a greater distance.
> Basically it is the higher mass that would be the problem, in my opinion.


I don't know...I've had a number of bits break off while routing (no huge ones) and they don't fly anywhere. They just drop. Nothing flying out or away, just dead weight straight down.

My guess is that manufacturers cannot control the manner in which people use things. The large bits, if set for a full cut at a single pass, can grab a heck of a lot of wood at once. AND, if someone was fool enough to try a climb cut with one...well, it could get messy. I have never used a whopper in a hand held, only in the table. However, I've not yet had the need to do so, either. If that need arises, we'll see.


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## Bytestalker (May 20, 2007)

You won't catch me running a 3 1/2 panel cutter at 18,000 rpm in a 1 1/2 hp router. A 1" cir bit rotating at 18,000 rpm is going at 53 mph at the tips. A 3 1/2" panel cutter would be rotating at 160 mph. All you need is to push it too hard, have a chip in the cutter, catch an edge an you have a major accident, kickback or fire. Or you will just burn out your router and destroy the bit. That's why all the manufacturer's have recommended speeds for the bits. The bits aren't balanced for 160 mph (the noise and vibration would be unbearable). Plus, in a 1 1/2 hp router you would have to take out smaller cuts. I prefer to have the mass of the bigger router take out more at one time. Even a 3 1/2 hp router has limits to what it can cut at one time. If you want to cut it all at once buy a shaper. 

I cut my panels with a 3 1/2 hp router ( I make doors and panels for walls). It is in a table, I have a fence and hold downs when cutting the panels. On occasion I've had the bit catch, pull and ruined panels. I couldn't and won't try it with a fixed speed under powered 1 1/2 hp router and I have burned out a 2 1/2 hp cutting panels (trying to cut too much too fast). 

Robert


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## Jacktoo (Oct 8, 2009)

Bytestalker
"You won't catch me running a 3 1/2 panel cutter at 18,000 rpm in a 1 1/2 hp router".
"I prefer to have the mass of the bigger router take out more at one time. Even a 3 1/2 hp router has limits to what it can cut at one time. If you want to cut it all at once buy a shaper." 


Does this mean you would run a 3 1/2 panel cutter at 18,000 rpm with 3 1/2 hp router?
You may change the torque, but the rpm is the same no matter what hp motor you have.
I have a Porter Cable model 75372 31/2 hp with a D-handle and variable speed and it doesn't matter if I'm using my 690 vs or the 75372, I always follow the suggested rpm speed for the cutter or bit. 

"I cut my panels with a 3 1/2 hp router ( I make doors and panels for walls). It is in a table, I have a fence and hold downs when cutting the panels. On occasion I've had the bit catch, pull and ruined panels." 


I would suggest that you watch a few videos on cnc machines, and keep in mind that some of them are using the same router motor that you are. You will notice, they make several passes when using larger cutters. I hope this will help you in the future.


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## Texas Sawduster (Apr 27, 2009)

*Torque*



daryl said:


> Probably the reason for the warning is that the large bits have a much higher mass and thus, if they did break or come free from the router they are capable of scattering and causing splinter to fly every which way or if they ricochet, to fly off to a greater distance.
> Basically it is the higher mass that would be the problem, in my opinion.


It would not matter if a large diameter bit is in a hand held or stationary setup such as a table. If the bit comes apart it's still going to fly everywhere.
The great issue on a hand held is the torque required to run a large diameter bit. If the bit were to "catch" while in use the result will be similar to what happens when you break thru a hole you are drilling with a hand drill. It twists and takes you with it.
Only in the case of a router the speed at which this happens is much much faster and I don't think you will be able to let it go as fast as stopping a hand drill. IMO


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## Bytestalker (May 20, 2007)

I run a Milwaukee 6525 at the proper speed for my cutters. I don't need to watch any videos on making panels I've made more than my fair share of them. I made cabinets for a living and make custom built cabinets for all types of customers. I've worked with all types of automated panel equipment from shapers to programming CNC equipment and installation of robotic systems. 

I was commenting on your question of why larger panel bits are considered more dangerous in routers by the manufacturers.

Robert


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## Jacktoo (Oct 8, 2009)

Bytestlker,

Sorry, I did not mean to offend you. I was just offering a suggestion about the videos because you said your bit caught and ruined your panels at times. Maybe my wording wasn't what it should have been, and I do apologize for that. I'm a tool tester by trade for private inventors, If I feel I can help with a problem, I make suggestions. I try to be very cautious about insulting ones intelligence. I Just thought I could help with your panels and rpm of motors. 

Just a heads up on carbide cutters, some companies should not be making their own carbide!
I know who they are and their going to get someone hurt or killed! 

Jack


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