# water based poly finish problem



## kjhart0133 (Feb 4, 2009)

Hello all,

A while ago I made a desk and finished the desktop with water based polyurethane. The finish came out good, but with prolonged use the poly is deteriorating in the areas where my hands and arms come into frequent contact with the desk top, i.e. when typing or writing. I suspect this is caused the moisture/oils/chemicals in my skin; it is worse in the summer when the humidity is higher.

I'm now planning to make a sewing table for my wife and like my desk, the top surface of the sewing table will come in frequent contact with the skin on her arms and hands in the areas around the sewing machine.

What can I use on this new project that will stand up to frequent skin contact. This will not be abrasive contact, but more a chemical reaction (?) between skin and finish.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Kevin H.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Which WB poly did you use, and how did you apply it?









 







.


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## Dominick (May 2, 2011)

How long ago did you apply it?
How many coats?
Water base poly IMO doesn't have the durability as an oil base. Also depends if you let each coat fully cure, before adding additional coats.


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## burkhome (Sep 5, 2010)

All brands of WB poly are not created equal. I have finished 4 staircases and one kitchen with 4 coats of ACE brand semigloss WB Poly with no problems. One of the staircases gets daily use and is 4 years old and still as good as new. Kitchen cabinets are cherry and have been up for a year...still like new.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If you would use an oil based polyurethane I believe it would alleviate your problem.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

when using a wb poly you want to use one that is recomended for floors. i like zar wb poly it is very durable. my stair treds were done 5 yrs ago and still look like new. furniture that gets alot of use i prefure oil, but there are wb poly that work very well. they tend to be very wxpensive.


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## kjhart0133 (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies.

I used a Minwax WB Poly from Home Depot. I sprayed on several coats with light sanding between applications. I allowed it to cure for about a week before using the desktop.

I think the finish was done properly, but the real problem seems to be the interaction between the finish and whatever chemicals and moisture are on my skin.

Thus I restate my question: what finish will stand up to repeated contact with skin? I'm inclined to forego WB finishes and move to an oil based product. Would oil-based poly be better than just a plain old oil finish like tung oil or Danish oil?

Thanks,

Kevin H.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

kjhart0133 said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> I used a Minwax WB Poly from Home Depot. I sprayed on several coats with light sanding between applications. I allowed it to cure for about a week before using the desktop.
> 
> ...


There are more durable WB polyurethanes than Polycrylic. At HD off the shelf there is Parks Pro Finisher...for flooring. It's a much better product. There is also a catalyst available for it.

You could use a polymerized Tung oil, and with several applications will have a sheen. "Oils" labeled with "Finish" on them, like "Tung Oil Finish" or "Danish Oil Finish" are varnish/BLO/mineral spirit mixes.

Or, just use an oil base polyurethane. It's very tricky to spray.









 







.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

kjhart0133 said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> I used a Minwax WB Poly from Home Depot. I sprayed on several coats with light sanding between applications. I allowed it to cure for about a week before using the desktop.
> 
> ...


 In my opinion I think an oil base polyurethane would be much better for your needs second by the water based polyurethane and last the oil finishes.


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## Wood4Brains (Jul 25, 2012)

*@ Steve Neul*



> In my opinion I think an oil base polyurethane would be much better for your needs second by the water based polyurethane and last the oil finishes.


Would this suggestion be based on durability of the finish? Or upon ease of application of the finish? Or upon final appearance of the finish?

If it were up to me (and fortunately for you, it is not up to me), I would go for several coats of Danish Oil and possibly wax. However, that is simply because I LOVE the look of Danish oil. From what I have read, you can expect a lot more maintenance if you do this, and I would imagine that if you had to touch up the sewing table (due to wear), it would be out of a commission for a few days each time, since it will take time to dry (and for the odor to dissipate). Hopefully others will chime in on this.

At least, that is what I have read (and experienced, but I don't have much experience at all). Having said that, I still LOVE the look of Danish oil (but I haven't tried the various tung oils or boiled linseed oils that other people have tried, so can't suggest which is better).

I hope this helps, and apologize that I don't have an answer as to whether water based polys are inherently more susceptible to chemicals in encountered when contacting skin.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

kjhart0133 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> A while ago I made a desk and finished the desktop with water based polyurethane. The finish came out good, but with prolonged use the poly is deteriorating in the areas where my hands and arms come into frequent contact with the desk top, i.e. when typing or writing. I suspect this is caused the moisture/oils/chemicals in my skin; it is worse in the summer when the humidity is higher.


As I read this post, it reminded me of the wear pattern on the laptop at my previous company.

Constant contact between the hands and the bottom area of the laptop. No surprise that after a year or so the pattern showed. The company made us use the machines for 5 years before replacement, so they would look "highly used" at the end of the period.

I do not know how much of the abrasion is from the skin having some roughness, or the oils in our sweat or both, but it is surprising how much a laptop can look like someone has been sanding the bottom area.

Whatever finish you decide to apply, I would also consider incorporating some element to either withstand the contact, or be sacrificial and replaceable.

For example, you would add a contrasting edge in some hard wood, and either leave unfinished, or just apply oil or wax, something which is replaceable without sanding. You could make this piece replaceable.

Another option would be a plastic cover for this area, this will scratch and you would want to be able to replace.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Wood4Brains said:


> *@ Steve Neul*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I like an oil based polyurethane because I believe it is more water resist and durable than the water based. Also I find it less labor intensive because normally I can put a coat of oil based poly on, let it dry overnight, scuff sand it and put a second coat on and I'm done. The biggest problem is it dries so slow you have to have a pretty clean place to work it or you will get dust in it before it dries. With the water based because it raises the grain takes about 6 coats to achieve the same finish. This means I have to scuff sand it 5 times instead of 1. I have finished a couple of pieces with Danish Oil. The one that is not touched or handled much is holding up very well. The cabinet that is frequently handled is showing dirt and hand marks everywhere it is handled. At some time I plan to strip the piece and put a polyurethane finish on it. I wish I had done that from the beginning.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

i used to argue with c-man on the oil / water finish thing. im old school i like oil. so ive been doing my own testing, and what do you know. i spray man-o-war spar and love it. there are a few other that i like in a pinch. well out of about 15 wb poly/varnish's i found this one. i use there stains exclusivly ( zar ). ill put this stuff up against any oil poly.for bond-durability-ease of application. the nice thing also about this stuff is its works over oil stain with no probs. and cleans up with water.i can put 3 coats on in one day. ive been a industriel, commercial painter for 35 yrs. there is nothing i havent applied one way or another. i did a 1 ft by 1ft pc of oak, and have been wipping it down with lacquer,paint thinner,alcohol,household cleaners for about a yr now and the finish is in great shape. it will ring up with a cup of hot coffee, but the ice water doesnt seem to bother it. i did a 1x4 on all sides ( 3 coats ) and put it in a bucket of water, it took 7 mo befor the finish went bad and that was on the end grain. this is now my go to finish when i use a film finish. ALL film finishes will fail at some point in time. i prefure the natural look so i use a home made penitrating oil finish.


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

*forgot the pic*

forgot the pic


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## S Hobbs (Jun 12, 2012)

jack warner said:


> i used to argue with c-man on the oil / water finish thing. im old school i like oil. so ive been doing my own testing, and what do you know. i spray man-o-war spar and love it. there are a few other that i like in a pinch. well out of about 15 wb poly/varnish's i found this one. i use there stains exclusivly ( zar ). ill put this stuff up against any oil poly.for bond-durability-ease of application. the nice thing also about this stuff is its works over oil stain with no probs. and cleans up with water.i can put 3 coats on in one day. ive been a industriel, commercial painter for 35 yrs. there is nothing i havent applied one way or another. i did a 1 ft by 1ft pc of oak, and have been wipping it down with lacquer,paint thinner,alcohol,household cleaners for about a yr now and the finish is in great shape. it will ring up with a cup of hot coffee, but the ice water doesnt seem to bother it. i did a 1x4 on all sides ( 3 coats ) and put it in a bucket of water, it took 7 mo befor the finish went bad and that was on the end grain. this is now my go to finish when i use a film finish. ALL film finishes will fail at some point in time. i prefure the natural look so i use a home made penitrating oil finish.


Jack, would be so kind to share your special formula for the oil finish? I would love to do that on something in the future. Thanks!


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

you got it 1 qt blo ( boiled linseed oil ) 1 qt turpintine 1/2 pint pine tar and 1/2 pint japan drier.

this is a homemade varnish. this was used on decks of scooners and fishing boats hundreds of yrs ago. the pine tar the more you add the more surface film will be left. and darker amber color. the less you use the more natural look youll have.


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## gproch (Apr 30, 2012)

jack warner said:


> i used to argue with c-man on the oil / water finish thing. im old school i like oil. so ive been doing my own testing, and what do you know. i spray man-o-war spar and love it. there are a few other that i like in a pinch. well out of about 15 wb poly/varnish's i found this one. i use there stains exclusivly ( zar ). ill put this stuff up against any oil poly.for bond-durability-ease of application. the nice thing also about this stuff is its works over oil stain with no probs. and cleans up with water.i can put 3 coats on in one day. ive been a industriel, commercial painter for 35 yrs. there is nothing i havent applied one way or another. i did a 1 ft by 1ft pc of oak, and have been wipping it down with lacquer,paint thinner,alcohol,household cleaners for about a yr now and the finish is in great shape. it will ring up with a cup of hot coffee, but the ice water doesnt seem to bother it. i did a 1x4 on all sides ( 3 coats ) and put it in a bucket of water, it took 7 mo befor the finish went bad and that was on the end grain. this is now my go to finish when i use a film finish. ALL film finishes will fail at some point in time. i prefure the natural look so i use a home made penitrating oil finish.


Jack,

Excuse my ignorance. Are you saying that you use the Zar finish, followed by your home made oil finish, or are you using the home made as a repair follow up?


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## jack warner (Oct 15, 2010)

gproch said:


> Jack,
> 
> Excuse my ignorance. Are you saying that you use the Zar finish, followed by your home made oil finish, or are you using the home made as a repair follow up?


no...not what im saying. but you could use zar stain then the oil.
the home made oil is the finish. nothing else needed b4 or after.
great for exterior finish
all my wine barrel furniture and items are done with it


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## slevapaul (Aug 25, 2012)

The oil based paintings gives the best finishing to the furniture and is the best option to any kind of furniture. Furniture is employed in every home as it is the main decorating tool in the home.


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