# And thus it begins



## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Just laid out the shop today. It's gonna be 24x36. Footing getting dug Wed. Pumped!


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## gus (Oct 31, 2010)

i am equally happy for you and jealous. but which ever way i feel on a given day i will still check on your progress. have fun.


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## Handyman (Jan 2, 2008)

gus said:


> i am equally happy for you and jealous. but which ever way i feel on a given day i will still check on your progress. have fun.


What He said:yes:


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks! I won't be able to keep from posting pictures.


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## billye1982 (Apr 25, 2011)

looks like a fun project, cant wait for more pics


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Best of luck.Building is such a rewarding avocation.


Don't forget to check prevailing wind direction/s.....I'm gonna need a sm spray booth,haha.Good luck,BW


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## ihackwood (Sep 5, 2009)

congrats, it is an awesome thing to build your own, i had my girls to help me but they waited till it was shingle time,

you are building it right?


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks y'all. A good friend of mine (with a back hoe!) is meeting me at 9:30 tomorrow morning to get the footing dug. Will document!


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Nice... Congrats! Wish I owned my shop instead of leasing... ONE DAY!

~tom


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

Is that tree next to the swingset going to be coming out? Looks like you might have some wood for future projects there. I will also be watching this thread with envy and curiousity.

Fabian


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

Looks like the start to a great project. Your reward will be every time you are in your shop, and see that everything is done right, instead of staring at the glaring short cuts that so many builders use...


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Will be pouring the footing in the morning. I hate roots.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Ycreek,

You are obviously very excited about your new shop, as well you should be. Congratulations!

I think you will find 24 x 36 to be adequate space for building furniture but for building kitchen cabinets it will get crowded quickly as it fills up with cabinets. I know this because my shop is about the same size. Actually 24 x 40 but I have a bathroom and stairs at one end so my net space is 24 x 36.

I have an insulated concrete slab floor and the walls and ceiling is well insulated. The thermal mass of the floor makes it cozy in the winter and cooler in the summer.

I love my shop! It is now two years completed and I've done a lot of work out of it so far. This is my forth or fifth shop that I've built over the years but the first designed as a one man shop.

I hope you get much pleasure from both building and working in your new shop. I hope to see you post some photos of some fine things created in it when it is completed.

Best to you , Bret


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Lola Ranch said:


> Ycreek,
> 
> You are obviously very excited about your new shop, as well you should be. Congratulations!
> 
> ...


I bet it is obvious. With this being my first, I really don't have a basis for comparison on what the right size for me is (or should be). I do want to rebuild the cabinets in the kitchen at some point and I'm sure that cabinets will start to pile up. I'm also going to have an upstairs. What do you think of an outside stairway?


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Ycreek,

I used "attic trusses" and created a large loft over the shop. I have to go outside and access the loft stairway from an another exterior door. Doing it this way makes it easy to seal the loft of from the shop for both heating energy and dust. If I hadn't done it this way I would have run the stairs outside attaching to the side of the shop.

The reason I've built several shops is because I do this sort of thing for a living.

Bret


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

I'm using attic/room trusses too. I'm gonna have the truss factory build them 26'8" as to have a 16" cantilever on both sides. Is your stairway outside of the back wall? I re-read your post. I gotcha.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Ycreek,

The truss guy will help you but I just left one truss out over the stairs and stick framed that area. If you go through the end wall you may want the gable end truss to have a door opening in it?

Bret


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Lola Ranch said:


> Ycreek,
> 
> The truss guy will help you but I just left one truss out over the stairs and stick framed that area. If you go through the end wall you may want the gable end truss to have a door opening in it?
> 
> Bret


Yep. That's what I'm gonna do. While at it, I'm thinking about framing for the DC "closet" and the (future) bathroom. That'll save the space. BTW, I'll pour a 4" pad outside of the blocks first.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Progress


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Ycreek, 

Good idea on the DC.

Bret


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Getting the slab poured has been put back a little while i prep for the tornado shelter. My wife insisted and to tell the truth, I'm glad she did.


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## jharris (Jan 8, 2011)

YC,

The delay on pouring could be a blessing. Have you considered an in-floor radiant heating system? 

I hear it can be done relatively cheaply and IMNTBHO its the best choice.

Anyone else use this type of system in their home or shop?

Oh and sincere congrats on your new shop! I'm a bit envious also but very happy for you. 

I look forward to seeing it progress.

Jeff


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

jharris said:


> YC,
> 
> The delay on pouring could be a blessing. Have you considered an in-floor radiant heating system?
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'm a bit anxious. I live in West Tennessee and although we're not Florida, it doesn't get really cold but for about a month. What does that entail?


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## jharris (Jan 8, 2011)

Sorry to disappoint but I don't know that much about it yet as I'm not yet ready (financially) to build my shop so I haven't done the research yet.

A friend of mine has this system in his home and shops and it's very comfortable.

I think one benefit of using this system in the shop would be the absence of a forced air unit that would circulate shop dust and require constant filter cleaning/changing. Another would be that while forced air causes convection (blow on the back of your hand, your breath is warm but feels cool as it moves across your skin) radiant heat will not have this effect so it feels warmer.

The system would be t-stat controlled and push hot water through tubing (pex, I think) imbedded in your floor so the tubing must be in place before you pour.

After setting your water lines I would pressure test them to make sure there were no leaks then be very careful while pouring to make sure no leaks occur during the pour.

Your boiler could be a home water heater. In a shop your size you would probably be able to get away with two, maybe three zones which would mean a smaller cheaper water distribution manifold.

I'm definately not an expert on this so I recommend you do your research. You might try contractortalk.com to start and find a plumber in your area that has installed this system and would be willing to advise.

Best of luck brother,

Keep us posted

Jeff


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## jharris (Jan 8, 2011)

Sorry, double post.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Jharris, I'm gonna look into that. Thanks a lot!


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

*you might want to search this forum.....*

Check out this thread from this last year. 

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/my-new-shop-heating-question-23176/

I'm sure if you searched "in floor radiant heating" you might find some more info too.

Fabian


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Ycreek said:


> Thanks! I'm a bit anxious. I live in West Tennessee and although we're not Florida, it doesn't get really cold but for about a month. What does that entail?


Basically you pour your main slab and then put an insulating/vapor barrier layer on it. Then you lay out your Pex tubes and pour a second slab a couple inches thick right on top of your insulation and Pex. (You can buy electric versions that use wire instead of Pex but the Pex is more efficient than the electric version. You cover this with whatever flooring you prefer (hardwood, tile, carpet, whatever) and you have a very efficient and incredibly comfortable room. The Pex tubing is pretty rugged and a closed loop system so you keep a tank of hot water, usually about 140 degrees F, that is fed through the tubes to heat the slab.The mass of the slab is what does the work. It takes a while to get up to temperature at first but once it does it's wonderful. By the way, I don't know anyone who has had Pex damage once the slab is poured.

I plan to build this into my house at some point but retrofitting my house is an expensive proposition. If you do it on build, though, the cost is very similar to a forced air system. Far less issue with dust, cleaning ductwork, mold and all the other issues of forced air, though and much more efficient. Warm floors feel good on your feet too, and you can actually keep the temperature lower than you do with forced air and still feel just as comfortable.

Can you tell I'm a fan?


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

Another quick question... it looks like you poured the concrete for footers and then put a couple layers of block on it within a day or two. Is that normal? It's been a while since I took my materials class but we had to wait quite a while for our concrete to cure (for strength testing so we needed a "full" cure) and I'm wondering if there is any issue with block on the concrete before it's cured more than that. I'm assuming you and your contractor know what you're doing so this is just for my edification. One last question, how deep did you pour?


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

frankp said:


> Another quick question... it looks like you poured the concrete for footers and then put a couple layers of block on it within a day or two. Is that normal? It's been a while since I took my materials class but we had to wait quite a while for our concrete to cure (for strength testing so we needed a "full" cure) and I'm wondering if there is any issue with block on the concrete before it's cured more than that. I'm assuming you and your contractor know what you're doing so this is just for my edification. One last question, how deep did you pour?


Building code here says that the top of the footer has to be 6in (I think) below grade. We fudged that a little but still passed. You're right that I had the blocks laid two days after the footer was poured. The yard falls to the point at which I'm two blocks high in the front, but four in the back. The block weight, i assume, is fairly minimal at those heights. When it comes to concrete I'm a neophyte but I see people pour footers around here and have the entire place framed a week and a half later all the time. It's taking me so long that "full cure" will most likely happen anyway.


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## Lola Ranch (Mar 22, 2010)

Concrete doesn't reach testing strength for 28 a days or so but we will start framing on it as soon as the forms are stripped, just need to be a little careful for the first few days. Framing is light weight. By the time the roof is on and there is a snow load the concrete is plenty strong. It is not a good idea to backfill a tall concrete wall too soon however. Time is money in the construction biz. Lord, I'm glad I'm not framing anymore, although I enjoyed it when I was younger.

Bret


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Lola Ranch said:


> Concrete doesn't reach testing strength for 28 a days or so but we will start framing on it as soon as the forms are stripped, just need to be a little careful for the first few days. Framing is light weight. By the time the roof is on and there is a snow load the concrete is plenty strong. It is not a good idea to backfill a tall concrete wall too soon however. Time is money in the construction biz. Lord, I'm glad I'm not framing anymore, although I enjoyed it when I was younger.
> 
> Bret


It looks like I'll make 28 days (as far as the footing and concrete filled blocks are concerned) easily. This shelter is REALLY postponing progress. When I get finished working everyday it's dark and, to tell the truth, I really don't want to do this at night. Today is Saturday! I'm about to get started with the floor form. It's gonna essentially have a "cage" of rebar coming out of it 12" oc. My wife picked up 50' of water stop yesterday to put between my rebar and my keyway. My goal is to have that finished so that when the concrete plant opens Monday morning, I can pour the floor. Tuesday, I'll start building the wall forms. Everybody in town thinks I'm building a swimming pool.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

Looking forward to seeing your pictures as you progress. Having waited most of my adult life to have a decent sized shop I know how exciting it can be to finally realise your dream. Good luck on the build.

Gerry


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

It's taken a while, but 3 friends and I have almost completed the storm shelter's forms. I hope to pour tomorrow morning. If not it'll be Tuesday morning.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Walls are curing.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Bit of a setback.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

BTDT.........The very best of luck,and have thoroughly enjoyed your build.BW


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## Itchy Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

Im envious of ya,but you obviously have earned a nice big shop.Raise that one area and it would double as a tornado safe place!Opps just noticed your doing that!Smart move.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks y'all. The shelter is, without a doubt, the toughest thing I've ever done. It took me four hours to get all that water out with an electric sump pump. Now I've got to go back down in that $#%* hole. The mud has to be cleaned off so that i can put the waterproofing membrane on. Gonna weld the steel door after that. I'm gonna copy this one.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Dude,we knocked the lid off a septic tank one day....in this,overthetop....backyard ballet(Cat vs Earth).Hey,it happens?BW


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## jstange2 (Dec 5, 2010)

Do you have a backup plan in case you are in it and something lands on top? let your friends and neighbors know about it.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

jstange2 said:


> Do you have a backup plan in case you are in it and something lands on top? let your friends and neighbors know about it.


That IS my back up plan. Everyone who inquires gets the "if a storm rolls through and y'all don't see me for a while...". I looked a the sliding door that National Storm Shelters does and, although it looks really good, they want $5500.00. Installation is mandatory! Mine's gonna run me a total of $1900.00. Their sliding door unit comes standard with a come-a-long. Mine's gonna come standard with a 4x4 and a bottle jack!


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

BWSmith said:


> Dude,we knocked the lid off a septic tank one day....in this,overthetop....backyard ballet(Cat vs Earth).Hey,it happens?BW


Man. A friend of mine told me TODAY about someone using a septic tank (new) as a shelter. That's a great idea and it would've saved me the headache that I continue to endure.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Yeah they used to be real popular 'round here for hot tubs.******* buddy's would get a lower half when upper half breaks.....on the cheap.

The one "we" hit was full.And supports the notion that customer is DEFFINATELY not always right.And no,not because of location.......we were looking eye level at it........having excavated a house sized terrace right next to it.Felt bad for the Cat opperator,he accidentally hit it while facing the other way.Give you two guesses who fixed it?BW


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

After a forced hiatus I'm back on. Started working on the DC ductwork. Hope to finish that and start running the conduit this weekend. Man, I'm ready to see something moving upwards!


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

That is looking good..... It will be awesome to have some of that DC under the slab.... no worries about that piping getting in the way overhead
Fabian


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Yeah. I'm really pumped about it. Everything under the slab tends to be taking forever. Construction should fly once the slab is poured.


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## ed_h (Dec 1, 2010)

Running underfloor DC piping before pouring the slab is a great idea. Not having that much forethought, I did it in the reverse order. 

Also ran power and DC control wiring for table saw and jointer, both of which sit in the middle of the floor (not against a wall).


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

ed_h said:


> Running underfloor DC piping before pouring the slab is a great idea. Not having that much forethought, I did it in the reverse order.
> 
> Also ran power and DC control wiring for table saw and jointer, both of which sit in the middle of the floor (not against a wall).


My conduit awaits. I'm running 3/4 for power and 1/2 for the wire to the DC multiswitch. The valve boxes have enough room for both. I'm also gonna run air to the box next to the workbench.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Bad pic but here's the storm shelter door. Slight bow in the top is getting worked out by the Sakrete.


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## Daniel23 (Aug 4, 2011)

Wow looks like the shop will be standing there very soon. Good luck and I hope the construction all goes well.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks a lot. It's hard to make headway when I only get a few hours a week to work on it. I'm gonna put 4 or 5 hours in today.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Finally! They're pouring tomorrow morning. I caved and have some framers showing up on Friday. This has been tough all by myself.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Gettin there.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

A good rain is falling on it now.


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## FiveOneSix (Sep 26, 2009)

*i do, but not anymore...*

i get the feeling this thread is gonna test some marriages. :yes:
if i was married id be pestering my wife to let me build a shop in the back yard haha.
OH YCREEK...why you gotta be so mean?! :shifty:
you are making most of us jealous!


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

FiveOneSix said:


> i get the feeling this thread is gonna test some marriages. :yes:
> if i was married id be pestering my wife to let me build a shop in the back yard haha.
> OH YCREEK...why you gotta be so mean?! :shifty:
> you are making most of us jealous!


 
+1....:laughing:

That rain that is falling today will only serve to strengthen that concrete some more.... Are you planning on sealing it before you get too far?


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

It's getting framed tomorrow and the roof is going on Sat. Well, that's what the roofer said. You know roofers. Anyway, it's gonna be "in the dry" sooner than later. Once that happens, Yes; I'm gonna seal it. I'm just glad my bracing over the shelter (under the floor) was sufficient for the pour. You can't even get around down in there right now. It's like a spider web.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

There's the door on the form


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

....


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Development.


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## thegrgyle (Jan 11, 2011)

Looking really good, Ycreek! :thumbsup: I love that fact that you planned some loft space storage as well. There is a ton of lost storage space in alot of houses up in the attic. :yes:

Keep the pics coming..... :thumbsup:

Fabian


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Let it rain! (a little)


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

1st time to see the floor relatively clean.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

I may never have a 3-phase machine but my 3-ph panel is screwed to the studs! Pumped.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*Looking Great!*



Ycreek said:


> 1st time to see the floor relatively clean.



Why the solid blocking in the walls?

Will you be installing vertical siding? :smile:


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks! Ceilings are 10' and the sheathing is meeting the next run at 48"&96". The inspector's a bureaucrat but he's right on that one. It's solid.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*Codes*



Ycreek said:


> Thanks! Ceilings are 10' and the sheathing is meeting the next run at 48"&96". The inspector's a bureaucrat but he's right on that one. It's solid.


Thanx Y,
So... did he also want the blocking for the roof sheathing? :huh:


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Post # 63:Look,shingles are so cheap,they're growing on trees.....duh.



Very cool,its coming along nicely.BW


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> Thanx Y,
> So... did he also want the blocking for the roof sheathing? :huh:


No. It's because of the Increased rigidity. It was that or 2x6 walls. Trusses are 16"OC with the usual 7/16"OSB.


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## Ycreek (Dec 8, 2010)

@BWSmithPost # 63:Look,shingles are so cheap,they're growing on trees.....duh.




Yea! Shakes!


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