# Weird Kitchen Counter Shape has me stumped for Laminate Countertops



## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

The wife and I both love the standard Laminate Counter tops with molded back splash because it’s so much easier to clean and we don’t like sharp corners or grout lines that trap dirt. We have ceramic tile right now and we absolutely hate it. We not only have broken tiles but it’s an endless problem of breaking glass and I believe Laminate will solve this because it has some resiliency to it. 

I’ve wanted to get rid of our tile counter tops ever since I bought the house, but the shape of the thing has me stumped because it has a window counter behind the sink and I don’t know how to do it without a lot of seams. I have installed a lot of standard molded laminated counter tops with a 45 deg mitered seam in the corners, but this has me stumped.

I don’t really know how to ask this and not sure if there is an easy answer without having it custom made in a shop somewhere. I really want to do it myself with as little expense as possible and Unless it was cheap enough I would rather remove the window counter top than to have a professional come in to do it.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sleeper said:


> I don’t really know how to ask this and not sure if there is an easy answer without having it custom made in a shop somewhere. I really want to do it myself with as little expense as possible and Unless it was cheap enough* I would rather remove the window counter top than to have a professional come in to do it.*


What is there beyond the sink...see below?
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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

The dogs Water Bowl! :laughing:
I couldn’t remember what they called these windows or I would have indicated it in the drawing.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Yep...I see the dog bowl. From the picture, is that the outside, looking at the window. I believe it's called a "bay window". But, on the inside, if it was a countertop, it would be difficult to clean it...reaching over the sink. Maybe I just ain't seeing this right.








 







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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Is the window area and the sink counter at the same height?
If you can step up to the window area using a post former laminate then have a 4" step up to the window area... problem solved.

If they are on the same level and you want a seamless surface it may be difficult, but a brown paper template would help. If you can accept a seam at the back of the sink, that would be easiest. Wraping the vertical laminate around the window may not be possible. Could have some tricky intersections. :blink:


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> Yep...I see the dog bowl. From the picture, is that the outside, looking at the window. I believe it's called a "bay window". But, on the inside, if it was a countertop, it would be difficult to clean it...reaching over the sink. Maybe I just ain't seeing this right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aw yes A "Bay Window". I just couldn't think of it and didn't know what to search for to find out. :laughing:. 
It is hard to clean. I have a pole with a sponge cleaner on the end, but mostly we open the window and clean from the outside. Its not fun.



woodnthings said:


> Is the window area and the sink counter at the same height?
> If you can step up to the window area using a post former laminate then have a 4" step up to the window area... problem solved.
> 
> If they are on the same level and you want a seamless surface it may be difficult, but a brown paper template would help. If you can accept a seam at the back of the sink, that would be easiest. Wraping the vertical laminate around the window may not be possible. Could have some tricky intersections. :blink:


The bottom of the windo is the same height as the counter and that's what makes it so hard because I can't run a backboard around it. 

I guess the designer was thinking it could be a serving window for the patio, but its too hard to reach. Its a stupid idea and I would never designed that way myself.

As you can see we can't even have a screen on the window or we lose access to the counter and to the inside window for cleaning. Its just a bad idea and I can see why they used tile.

I just realized that I missed a corner on the left side. Anyway I drew red lines for the seams if I were to use standard Formica counter top.










I see a couple more seams that I forgot about. I probably should draw it to scale in Sketchup to get it right, but it doesn't look like Formica premolded counter tops will work. 

I could just buy sheets, but then then I don't know what to do about the nosing.


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## GROOVY (Apr 27, 2008)

I would keep the bay area separate, and miters away from sink


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

GROOVY said:


> I would keep the bay area separate, and miters away from sink


 Thanks, that is an idea. 
Years ago I was thinking about removing the tile out of the bay and installing sheet metal pan filed with pebbles and a stainless steel grate over it for potted plants, but worried dust & dirt would collect in the pebbles and start to stink or maybe provide a home for mosquitoes. 
Then I thought if I were to put in a drain I could hose it down occasionally with the dish sprayer. We then gave up with that idea because it was easier to just pull the plants out and clean the tile.


I'm now thinking I may have to use flat pieces of something and add a back board. It would leave a corner seam all the way around the wall like I was trying to avoid, but I see no other way to do it unless a company the specialize in Formica can make me something.


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## dogmir (Nov 18, 2012)

If it were me I would make the counter top rather than trying to find a pre built solution. I would demo the tile and then create the counter tops. Dry fit them and get everything perfect. Making sure miters are tight etc. Then take them out into the shop and laminate them there. Using a router to trim the laminate then you should have a nice tight seam when you go to install. 

As many have stated I would keep the window separated. I would also elevate it by making a frame of 2x4 and adding plywood to the top. Then either laminate that or tile it with nice tile that is flat with smallest grout lines possible. The other option and knowing me the one I would take would be to just do concrete counter tops :icon_smile:. A cheap easy way to get it flat and looking nice. Then to separate the seam I would use a metal bar in the mold at 45's and the window.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

dogmir said:


> The other option and knowing me the one I would take would be to just do concrete counter tops :icon_smile:. A cheap easy way to get it flat and looking nice. Then to separate the seam I would use a metal bar in the mold at 45's and the window.


Oh concrete! I forgot about that. We did have a conversation with someone about that a while back, but I can't remember the details. I need to look into that again. Thanks


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I just finished watching one YouTube video on making counter tops and altough I think I can do this it requires a lot of expensive tools. I would like to do it in place, but i need to see more videos before I commit myself to this project. :laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Even if you had all the tools, I would try to talk you out of concrete for the whole kitchen top. Without the experience, it would be a PITA, and they would be very heavy. 

I would make my own laminate tops. If you use the postformed tops, you'll have the sections with and without splashes, and finished ends to work with. I'm just saying that making laminate tops would be a cleaner looking job, that you can fit up better.


















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## dogmir (Nov 18, 2012)

Concrete can be a pain and is heavy. If it were me I wouldn't do them in place though. You get a much flatter cleaner looking top with melamine forms.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> Even if you had all the tools, I would try to talk you out of concrete for the whole kitchen top. Without the experience, it would be a PITA, and they would be very heavy.
> 
> I would make my own laminate tops. If you use the postformed tops, you'll have the sections with and without splashes, and finished ends to work with. I'm just saying that making laminate tops would be a cleaner looking job, that you can fit up better.
> 
> ...


 I just watched 7 YouTube videos on concrete tops and I think you are correct. It might be more than I can chew that’s for sure.
I helped a couple of contractor friends years ago make laminated counter tops, but it was a long time ago. I need to look at it again. I just don’t remember how we formed the nose.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sleeper said:


> I helped a couple of contractor friends years ago make laminated counter tops, but it was a long time ago. I need to look at it again. I just don’t remember how we formed the nose.


If you're talking about the rounded front edge...YOU can't do that with laminate. You need a postforming machine for that. Besides, don't forget you have a lot of help here on the forum, if you do laminate.








 







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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I remember making cove molding on the router table and gluing it in the corner of the back splash and if I remember correctly we heated the Formica along the back with a propane torch to fold it up the back. 
I know we had a bull nose because I remember gluing on strips of wood to the front edge and sanding it smooth, but I may not have been there when they actually formed the front because I just don’t remember that at all.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sleeper said:


> I remember making cove molding on the router table and gluing it in the corner of the back splash and if I remember correctly we heated the Formica along the back with a propane torch to fold it up the back.
> I know we had a bull nose because I remember gluing on strips of wood to the front edge and sanding it smooth, but I may not have been there when they actually formed the front because I just don’t remember that at all.


Maybe if you go for hypnosis, it will all come back.:laughing:








 





 
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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

LOL, I'm getting old, what can I say.:smile:
There were 6 or 7 of us there and I was probably busy helping with the back while the others were doing the front. Its funny because I remember cracking open a keg of beer and others showing up for a party afterwords. Maybe the beer erased my memory :laughing:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I can do this with 2 seams...*










IF your front of the sink to the window dimension is 50" or less the maximum width of laminate. Make one seam across the sink front to the left and one to the right.


If it's greater than 50" then I'd make the first seam way into the window bay where it won't be seen. Just what I would do. You can "like" or "unlike" my idea . :laughing:


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

So I take it that 50” is the width of the Laminate. I just measured from the window to the front and I have 46” so I might just take your suggestion.

I just watched the “Postform Countertop Gets Laminated” YouTube video and they say the heating is critical at 360 deg F. and they use a heating iron the full length of the top. I’m pretty sure I could do a small top or at least bend the splash, but not as tight as the factory. Theirs is almost 90˚ bend and I would be limited to ¾ to 1” radius. Also I would have to build something for the nose, but without the cove wheels to form it, I’m not sure I could and defiantly not anything longer then 4 to 6 ft. 

Anyway I’m still trying to find someone who actually did do one, but it looks like I’ll be limited to bevel edge and a separate back splash. I’m not happy about a seam between the top and the back splash, but anything will be better than this tile. 

Earlier today I made a pot of coffee and didn’t shut the door all the way so I had almost a whole pot of coffee on the counter and it all collected along the back splash. This has happened more times than I can remember. And I’m sure that when I pull all the tile up I’ll find coffee stains on the wall behind the cabinets.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sleeper said:


> So I take it that 50” is the width of the Laminate.


Depending on the laminate, standard widths of sheets are 49" (called 4x), or 61" (called 5x). Lengths are 8', 10'. and 12'. Nothing wrong with making miters, but consideration should be given to 90° joints as they are shorter in length. 





















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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> Depending on the laminate, standard widths of sheets are 49" (called 4x), or 61" (called 5x). Lengths are 8', 10'. and 12'. Nothing wrong with making miters, but consideration should be given to 90° joints as they are shorter in length.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks thats a big help. I've decided thats the way I'm going to go. I'll probably have to wait until after the new year because I have too much to do for the holidays coming up, but it will give me time to acuire everything I need.
I don't have any idea of where to buy the laminate unless Home Depot sells it. I may have to take a trip down to LA


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Sleeper said:


> I don't have any idea of where to buy the laminate unless Home Depot sells it. I may have to take a trip down to LA


You can look up in your local Yellow Pages under "plastic laminate", or "cabinetmakers supply" (or some similar headings) for the brands of plastic laminate, such as...

Formica
Micarta
Laminart
Wilson Art
Pionite
Nevamar

The sellers of the laminate cater to the trade, but most have "walk up counters" that will sell to the public. While there, you'll find a world of woodworking supplies/tools/ glues/finishes/hardware/ sheet goods (plywoods/MDF/Melamine), etc. Tell them I set ya.:yes:


















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## Civilian (Jul 6, 2013)

cabinetman said:


> ...... Nothing wrong with making miters, but consideration should be given to 90° joints as they are shorter in length.


Can't he have just one 90 deg seam on the left side of the sink? And on the right side of the sink to the stove would have no seam, (except the seam in the back splash.)


By the way, the kitchen counter tops look like the house my daughter moved out of a few years ago.

Jon


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I found some 60-in x 12-ft at Lowe's, but if it were 61” I could do my counter top in one seam. So I guess I’ll put a 1” piece along the window. 
As I was measuring the existing tile counter, I realized that there is a brim all the way around to keep spills off of the floor. I broke a bottle of olive oil the other day and it was confined to the counter. Without that brim it would have really made a mess on the floor. Is there any way to make a brim?


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm putting together a material list and was wondering what I should use for the wood below the laminate. i belivet he origanel is 3/4 " plywood and I was wounder if i cleaned it up and glued some 1/4" plywood or something over it.


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## bzguy (Jul 11, 2011)

Since there are no dimensions can't say for sure.
Laminate comes at least as wide as 60", 61" last time I ordered?
Wilson Art, Formica brands.
Lengths up to 144".
Groovy's layout is the way a pro shop would do it.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

61” would be great, but I guess it wouldn’t matter much since it’s only a 1” strip along the window. 



bzguy said:


> *Groovy's layout* is the way a pro shop would do it.


:huh: I'm not sure what this means.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

So Cabinetman, it turns out that the reason I can’t remember the rounded nose is because it never happened. I sent an email to an old friend who actually worked for the guy asking about it and I just got a reply back. I was only helping my friend for free on a Saturday and wasn’t there for the full installation, so I wasn't aware of all the details. 
Anyway he said the project that I was involved in was actually an experiment to fix a design layout problem. A standard 2’ counter top couldn’t be used because of clearance issues and had to be custom built to fit, although we did manage to bend the splash. He said the project was scraped in the end and they decided to get rid of the cabinet.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Depending on the sheet size I would consider this arrangement...
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## LKHA (Feb 24, 2014)

http://www.cabinetmakerwarehouse.com/catalog is a source for laminate I have been planning a project and came across them


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

Have you thought about doing it in Porcelain Tile? Porcelain Tile with 1/8th inch seams, sanded grout and an fluorochemical-based sealer makes a nice counter top and you wouldn't have to worry abut how to cut your seams.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

laminate comes 4'x8' just a thought since I didn't see the other dimensions. you can DIY laminate.:thumbsup:


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## Trav (May 30, 2011)

retfr8flyr said:


> Have you thought about doing it in Porcelain Tile? Porcelain Tile with 1/8th inch seams, sanded grout and an fluorochemical-based sealer makes a nice counter top and you wouldn't have to worry abut how to cut your seams.


Typically sanded grout is not recommended for 1/8 joints. Non sanded is the preferred product for applications of 1/8 or smaller when epoxy grout is not used.


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## retfr8flyr (Aug 7, 2013)

I wont argue with you but 1/8 inch is kind of the dividing line between sanded and unsanded grout. I prefer sanded with a good sealer because it wont shrink but you can go either way. I also hate epoxy grout. The question is, has the OP thought about tile?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

retfr8flyr said:


> The question is, has the OP thought about tile?


He probably has. It's been about 6 months.








 







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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

If it were me, I would have a cabinet shop come in and do a solid surface counter top. (e.g. Corian) They can chemically weld the stuff so that the seams are invisible. Just make sure that you get somebody that is certified in installing Corian. There are some quartz/resin materials also but I don't know brand names.

My wife loved HPL until she saw a friends solid surface counter top.


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## Trav (May 30, 2011)

retfr8flyr said:


> I wont argue with you but 1/8 inch is kind of the dividing line between sanded and unsanded grout. I prefer sanded with a good sealer because it wont shrink but you can go either way. I also hate epoxy grout. The question is, has the OP thought about tile?


Wasn't arguing at all. Sorry if I came off confrontational. You are correct that 1/8 inch is the cut off for sanded grout The only reason I mentioned it is that most people incorrectly mix the grout way to wet and this causes the shrinking that you are referring to.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Hi guys I’ve been out of town all day without internet and just got home. 

I started this thread a while ago, but don’t plan on doing anything until this summer. I installed porcelain tile on the floor myself and picked up a bunch of different samples to do the counter, but both the wife and myself really don’t want grout at all for a counter. We have ceramic tiles now and besides it always breaking around the edge we hate the idea of germs and stains in the grout line, ideally we would like a solid counter top without any seams at all. But that’s not going to happen because the neighborhood is going downhill and I can never get my money back out of an expensive top.


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## brdhntr (Feb 27, 2014)

Your design doesn't lend itself well to using post form tops. Also know with post formed that you can not miter a 3 foot run into a 2 foot run and cut corner to corner as shown in one of the former posts. A Betterly top joining template would make your job easier. They take some practice to get them to work.


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## brdhntr (Feb 27, 2014)

http://www.betterleytools.com/

Here is a link to their site


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## usmarine1979 (Mar 8, 2014)

Sleeper I know you've mentioned something similar to this in a previous post, but I'll tell you what we did in an almost exact situation as yours.


We had the same "bay window" behind the counter, and terrible 4" tile counters. We ended up replacing the counters with a laminate counter with a bull nose just as you were talking about, and in the bay window, I made a flower box. I cut it out of cedar, but you could use any wood you desire, but the big point here is that we used fake floral from Hobby Lobby. I've included a picture of a recent project I made for our dining table, just in a metal trough as a reference, but the catch is this:

I created a base of floral foam that is all glued together, and fits well. Then I create the arrangement based on a season. I make one for fall, spring, summer and Christmas/winter. They are all interchangeable by simply pulling out the glued foam, and swapping it out with the respective season's arrangement. This allowed us to store them in a tote, spray em with compressed air, and give us a fresh look without having to mess with trying to make useless counter space out of that area.

Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth, but we really enjoyed the look. Here's an example of what I was referring to for the table centerpiece.


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## Sleeper (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks usmarine1979, that sounds like what we may have to do it. My wife has the bay window full of plants anyway and it would be the easiest way for me as long as it looks OK to sell the place in a few years.:shifty::smile:
I like your flower arrangement, thanks for the photo.:thumbsup:


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## usmarine1979 (Mar 8, 2014)

Glad I could help


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