# sliding barn door (interior)



## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

Is there a rule of thumb for how deep mortises should be for an interior door? In this case, it's a sliding barn door between two rooms in my house. I'm going to glue them together. Maybe I'll reinforce with dowels. Haven't decided yet. 

The door will be 84" tall and 60" wide. 

The frame is 2x dimensional lumber. 

The stiles and top rail will be 4 7/8" wide. 

The crosser rail will be 7" wide

The bottom rail will be 8 3/4" wide 

The widths are subject to change depending on what looks right, but that's basically it. 

The panels will probably be tongue & groove paneling with beveled edges or bead board, depending on what I see and like at the store.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I've always put doors together with 1/2"x 5" dowels. Being a sliding door you could maybe get by with less but if you are going to go to the trouble to dowel it you might as well dowel it like a hinged door.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

So, dowels instead of m&t?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Unless you run a tenon a couple inches into stiles I would use both tongue and groove and dowel it both. Even if you make your tongue and groove an inch deep wood movement will pull at the joints and over time you may have the joints coming loose.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

gj13us said:


> Is there a rule of thumb for how deep mortises should be for an interior door? ....


Yes...but that's for an actual traditional door...

What I read described here isn't that so I can't really offer advise. 

Do you what an actual traditional door build or the modern replicate interpretations that are being made today? They are very different animals...

I can speak to the traditional, and to the mortising methods for them...

If a modern build method, I have zero advise to offer there...

What do you want?


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## Echo415 (Apr 3, 2018)

gj13us said:


> Is there a rule of thumb for how deep mortises should be for an interior door? In this case, it's a sliding barn door between two rooms in my house. I'm going to glue them together. Maybe I'll reinforce with dowels. Haven't decided yet.
> 
> The door will be 84" tall and 60" wide.
> 
> ...


Building a door mounted on a sliding rail brings different considerations than if it was hinged. You don't have to worry so much about compound forces causing the door to sag and joints to fail so re-enforcement of the joints is less critical. I'm not a fan of dowels myself because locating the holes on either side of the joint and drilling them correctly is a PITA in my opinion. I would go with m/t or loose tenon construction. The thing that really stands out to me is that you are using 2x dimensional lumber...explain a little more about that. Are you buying it from a lumberyard or box store? I never ever trust that stuff to keep it's shape...the only quality wood comes from small volume sawyers that still have access to old growth lumber(at least in my area).


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> What do you want?


A door that looks nice. :grin:

"Barn" door isn't exactly descriptive, because it's not going to look like a barn door so much as a standard interior door in a house built in 1991. However, it seems nearly everyone refers to these sliding doors as "barn" doors. It will be painted white. Ben Moore Dove White.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

It's regular construction lumber from Lowe's. Although I appreciate the value of higher quality, what I got was inexpensive and convenient. It has knots--I'll use filler where needed. I've gotten pretty good at "putty-n-paint" over the years. :nerd2:
If it needs to be repaired or replaced at some point, that's o.k. And if we look at it and don't like it, I'll make a new one. This is my first door, and I'm learning and making it up as I go along. (literally--the plans are a rough mental sketch of what looks right).


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have made several large hanging doors*

I needed several large doors 4 ft X 8 ft, to enclose an overhang for outdoor, but covered storage. I used 2 X 6 PT construction for the frame and a diagonal across the corner the skinned it on both sides with 3/8" rough sawn Fir plywood. A slight warp would not be an issue because they were hung on tracks, but I don't think that happened.
This made for a smooth surface door without the "butted plank" look which is very popular and more decorative.

This article describes some traditional methods for constructing doors:
Heart of Oak Workshop, Arts & Crafts style Doors, Furnishings and Interior Woodwork


Here are some typical joinery methods:
(Link Removed - violates forum copyrighted material posting rules)









I would advise against using "construction" limber from the box stores as it typically will warp and twist indoors as it continues to dry. I found Southern Yellow Pine to be a more stable material and it looks good. Locally we have a lumber yards that has salvaged timbers from large shipping containers, 6" x 6" and larger. They have a rustic appearance and would look great if milled into a door. Some are softwood of undetermined origin.

Since the door will be hung, the stresses will be much different that if it were hinged. Racking will not be an issue, so less structural methods could be used... JMO. Unless you have a "doweling jig" getting the holes bore in the mating face will be difficult. My buddy who makes custom raised panels doors has a jig with hardened steel inserts for exactly this purpose. The dowels are 5/8" diameter if I recall from doweling my own 42" wide front door.

A sketch of your design would be helpful. A 3 rail door would seem reasonable. A 2 rail design, top and bottom only would be more contemporary looking. What do you have in mind?


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## Echo415 (Apr 3, 2018)

gj13us said:


> It's regular construction lumber from Lowe's. Although I appreciate the value of higher quality, what I got was inexpensive and convenient. It has knots--I'll use filler where needed. I've gotten pretty good at "putty-n-paint" over the years. :nerd2:
> If it needs to be repaired or replaced at some point, that's o.k. And if we look at it and don't like it, I'll make a new one. This is my first door, and I'm learning and making it up as I go along. (literally--the plans are a rough mental sketch of what looks right).


Sorry but I gotta say...how much is your time worth? I know it's a learning experience but choosing and using the right materials is part of the process. Knots and uneven grain patterns will give you far more headaches than if you started with something that has been properly dried and is straight grained. I can't see wasting my time building a door all while knowing that I'll have to replace it because I tried to save a few dollars on the material cost.


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

gj13us said:


> It's regular construction lumber from Lowe's. Although I appreciate the value of higher quality, what I got was inexpensive and convenient. It has knots--I'll use filler where needed. I've gotten pretty good at "putty-n-paint" over the years. :nerd2:
> If it needs to be repaired or replaced at some point, that's o.k. And if we look at it and don't like it, I'll make a new one. This is my first door, and I'm learning and making it up as I go along. (literally--the plans are a rough mental sketch of what looks right).



Hi Gj13us,

If this is a "down and dirty-get it done" door with modern paints and box store wood...I don't think you can go wrong with the advise here thus far...

I'm the "trad guy" and do 99.9% of my work with only joinery, no glues, and I make my own paints and other finishes for the most part (or have them spec'd to my formulation.)

For the most part, it sounds like you are going to be employing a glue up format, and other modern elements in this build. As such, which has been pointed out already, this door won't see much torque and only hanging pressure, which isn't much. 

If you want to explore a more traditional door build, I can expand that, but most of the info is out on the web in picture form for these, as well as the traditional standards for M&T doors.

Hope that helped? I think you going in a good direction with the advise here thus far for the kind of build it seems you want to do!

Good luck,

j


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## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Echo415 said:


> Sorry but I gotta say...how much is your time worth? I know it's a learning experience but choosing and using the right materials is part of the process. Knots and uneven grain patterns will give you far more headaches than if you started with something that has been properly dried and is straight grained. I can't see wasting my time building a door all while knowing that I'll have to replace it because I tried to save a few dollars on the material cost.


I do agree with the doing it once moto...

Barn doors and many trad doors, in general, are made in some pretty rustic fashions and look great!

For one, knots don't have to be an issue if they are "live knots." They can actually add character, as can plain saw wood. As to grain pattern in general good practice, I agree that quarter/rift sawn wood is always going to be the least challenging and stable. 

As to dry wood...that's a modern concept and not an absolute. I don't make much out of "dry wood" and haven't for years...Including doors, floors, and even window framing without much issue at all. It's about means and method on that point...not "can't" or "shouldn't."

My 2¢ on those points

j


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## Echo415 (Apr 3, 2018)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> I do agree with the doing it once moto...
> 
> Barn doors and many trad doors, in general, are made in some pretty rustic fashions and look great!
> 
> ...


I look at kiln dried lumber as a modern invention. Air dried lumber is my preference...for this project, I would have probably taken a trip to the historical salvage company and picked up some old 2x material that is full of nail holes for the build in order to have a "barn" door look. It's had plenty of time to settle and would be least likely to have any more movement unless there is humidity problem in the home. Most of my customers want the clean look but rustic is getting very popular these days.

I have only read a handful of posts but you always seem to have very solid advice.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

Echo415 said:


> Sorry but I gotta say...how much is your time worth?


Yep. I get it. The bottom line for me is this is how I spend my time. 

:thumbup1:


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> Barn doors and many trad doors, in general, are made in some pretty rustic fashions and look great!
> 
> 
> j


That seems to be the consensus, and in fact it is a consensus my wife consents to. However. I don't live in a barn. :wink: Or a reclaimed proto-industrial Restoration Hardware loft. I live in a single family two story suburban very-loosely-termed "colonial," consarn it! I didn't want a barn door/sliding door to begin with, thus an unrustic door that blends in with the existing decor as much as possible is my compromise.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> I
> A sketch of your design would be helpful. A 3 rail door would seem reasonable. A 2 rail design, top and bottom only would be more contemporary looking. What do you have in mind?


Not sure what a 3 rail door is. I hung the rail hardware already. 

The sketch is little more than a scrawl but I'll see about taking a picture of it.


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

I don't mean to come across as obstinate--and* I appreciate the input.* 

maybe. . . .maybe I ought to look into . . . .like . . . . rethinking the lumber choice. Not saying I will, not saying I won't. Just maybe I'll _think_ about it.


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## Echo415 (Apr 3, 2018)

gj13us said:


> Yep. I get it. The bottom line for me is this is how I spend my time.
> 
> :thumbup1:


I say this from painful experience in my younger years...I would have saved far more time by not trying to go the economical route on many home projects...I'm just about to start gutting my bathroom after only 11 years. I wouldn't have to do this if I trusted my gut instead of pinching pennies. Oh well...the good thing about working on your own house is the luxury of being able to have a beer or ten while you're working. :grin:


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## gj13us (Apr 19, 2016)

Echo415 said:


> I say this from painful experience in my younger years...I would have saved far more time by not trying to go the economical route on many home projects...I'm just about to start gutting my bathroom after only 11 years. I wouldn't have to do this if I trusted my gut instead of pinching pennies. Oh well...the good thing about working on your own house is the luxury of being able to have a beer or ten while you're working. :grin:


And ya can't beat the hours. I'm my own boss. Almost. 

I absolutely agree with you on quality vs. cost. There are a few purchases that I/we regret not spending more money on.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

gj13us said:


> It's regular construction lumber from Lowe's. Although I appreciate the value of higher quality, what I got was inexpensive and convenient. It has knots--I'll use filler where needed. I've gotten pretty good at "putty-n-paint" over the years. :nerd2:
> If it needs to be repaired or replaced at some point, that's o.k. And if we look at it and don't like it, I'll make a new one. This is my first door, and I'm learning and making it up as I go along. (literally--the plans are a rough mental sketch of what looks right).


Try to select wood with as few knots as possible. Knots tend to bleed sap through the paint. You can minimize this threat by putting a couple coats of Zinsser Sealcoat over the knots before priming the wood. The shellac will help to keep the sap from bleeding through.


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## tiredtraveler (Jul 5, 2018)

Did you make the door yet?
Which way did you go?
JIM


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