# Glossy Polyurethane now dull



## CyiDev (Oct 30, 2016)

So I am a complete noob to all this. I bought a 72x36" piece of butcherblock from Menards and some desk legs. I used Minwax ebony stain and did 1 coat because I liked the thiner stain it left. Let it dry and started using Fast Drying Polyurethane also from Minwax. First coat took the longest and didn't quite soak in. Took about 12 coats to get a fully covered desk. Everything was glossy and beautiful i sanded between layers lightly w/ 220 to knock down the nibs. I was able to sand between layers at 3-4 hours and reapply. So I let it dry for a full 24 hours like it said on the can. Went at it with 320 W/D, 600,1500,2000, and it was dull. I could not bring the gloss back. Its super smooth but not glossy it has a sort of dull / hazy texture. Tried turtlewax rubbing compound, buffed on w/ 0000 that was a no go, bought an electric buffer same thing. How do I make it glossy again? I sanded the final coat because no matter how hard i tried I always got nibs in the layers.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think starting with 320 was too coarse. I would do a another thorough wet sanding again with 2000 grit paper and buff it again. The turtlewax rubbing compound is really bad. Get yourself some 3M or Meguiar's rubbing compound. 

The electric buffer might also be a problem. I use a 7" auto polisher with a lambswool bonnet.


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## CyiDev (Oct 30, 2016)

I've tried some test areas around the sides and cant find any combination that is working. someone said maybe it wasnt fully dry yet?


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## CyiDev (Oct 30, 2016)

I've just done a small test area with 1500wd and then 2000 wd. The 1500 was cutting and it left a dull spot, the 2000 did nothing. Rubbed it out and it has same dullness to it. I'm almost wondering if I need something finer than 2000 to get the gloss back? Like a fine pumice compound?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Not being there it's difficult to tell where you are. The dullness is scratches in the finish made from the sandpaper. When I'm going to rub a finish out to a gloss I never sand with anything coarser than 1500 grit. The scratches made from 320 will take a lot of sanding to get rid of. The turtlewax rubbing compound is so bad I wouldn't even make the attempt to polish out the finish with it. It would take you forever to bring the sheen back with it.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Polyurethane doesn't polish all to well, generally the sheen you get of the brush is the shiniest it gets. It's just too soft of a finish, it tends to deflect from the sandpaper rather than be uniformly abraded by it. Your best bet is to wipe on a thinned down coating of poly on the top layer, bout a 50/50 dilution of poly to mineral spirits is what I use.


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## d_slat (Apr 10, 2012)

I think I remember a few members here discussing rubbing their finish with sheets cut from a brown paper bag to knock the dust nibs off. I never tried it, but maybe it will leave your finish shinier than sanding.


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## CyiDev (Oct 30, 2016)

I absolutely hate the smell of poly and have come to the conclusion id rather live with the dullness than do another coat. I'm going to wait until I know its cured and ill test some areas to see what works to get rid of it. From what i am reading i should have full cure in 14 days from final coat. If I never get it to a shine I'm fine with that. I would like to get it to shine and not have the dullness / milkyness. If I post a pic will that help you guys understand what i am talking about? It seems that most of you already do which is why I have not put a picture up yet. 

I do plan on doing a second desk the same way and would love to know what alternative coating I could use that would pair well with ebony and be hard enough with almost zero smell to it. I am hearing that tung oil has zero smell but not sure on its hardness, or maybe shellac but wont that amber out my ebony finish too much?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Tung oil has a pretty pungent odor. It's pure hardening oil where polyurethane just contains a hardening oil. It also dries very slow. It might take as much as a week between coats in reasonably warm weather. It would take longer if it's cold where you are. Shellac works well but it's a finish that needs to be sprayed. It takes someone with quite a bit of practice to apply shellac by hand. What happens is shellac is mixed with alcohol and you can remove dried shellac with alcohol so if you don't apply it quickly you can remove as much shellac as you apply. If you want easy use lacquer. It has a strong odor and has to be sprayed but you can do it outside. The finish dries to touch in about five minutes so you shouldn't get dust or bugs in the finish. With lacquer you sand between coats and when you spray the final coat you are done. There is no reason for any hand rubbing or buffing unless you are doing a mahogany table. You don't have to have a high dollar sprayer either. A cheap Harbor Freight sprayer will spray wood finishes just fine.


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## CyiDev (Oct 30, 2016)

Here is a link to the desk in case it helps. Looking at it closely with my digital microscope I can see sanding marks but it looks like it is from the higher grit. I almost think it needs to be buffed properly... All I tried using was the turtle wax stuff with my electric buffer and also some extra fine buffing wax. 

http://imgur.com/a/sDopU


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

What sheen/gloss is the poly straight out of the can that you applied??? 

12 coats also seems like alot to me......


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Part of the problem was using the fast dry poly for a desk top. With a table top finish you go thicker and in the process you have created a texture to the finish which is difficult to sand and rub out. The fast dry is better suited for finishing trim or sprayed on larger surfaces. The next desk if you use polyurethane it would go easier with conventional poly. It would brush easier anyway and you could add Floetrol to the finish that would make it brush even easier.

Still if you are patient the dull from being sanded can be polished out. You will eventually find the right tools and supplies to fix this problem.


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## CyiDev (Oct 30, 2016)

ColorStylist said:


> What sheen/gloss is the poly straight out of the can that you applied???
> 
> 12 coats also seems like alot to me......


It was glossy. Looked beautiful but my goal was to get rid of the nibs. I'm thinking since my 3000 grit does nothing but make it just as dull (its now 3 full days since final coat went on) I may need something finer. I dont mind sand paper but would like something a little more forgiving. Maybe I can find some 4000-6000 grit sand paper to see if that makes any difference. The first 10 coats were all super light and nothing more than trying to keep an even finish while the poly would soak into spots but harden on the surface of the rest. the last 2 were when the desk was fully coated at least once. I did some heavy sanding between each of the coats 400 grit. The last coat was beautiful and glossy with the exception of the nibs. Figured it could be rubbed back to something close if not the same gloss.


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## J_L (Apr 22, 2014)

I've sprayed and buffed out lots of automotive urethane on cabinets and the rule of thumb is you wait 3 days before wet sanding and buffing. Earlier than 3 days and the finish is still too soft. I would usually start with 400 grit to get rid of any orange peel and then work my way up to about 1200 grit. At this point the finish is still dull. Then I switch to a buffer with some supercut compound and work it until it shines. Finally, some finishing compound makes it beautiful. 

I'm guessing the poly was still too soft. Also, wet sanding will make it smooth but not shiny until you get into the tens of thousands of grit. A dual action buffer can work but a true orbital buffer is the ticket for bringing out the shine.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

I usually spray on a light coat,. then when it is tack dry I spray another coat without sanding in between. My second coat gets sanded with 320 then I apply another coat, sand with 220, then 2 more coats. I thin my last coat just to make sure it goes on smooth. The key is to achieve 6 dry mils to be able to sand/buff.

I then go 600, 1000, 1200, 1500, and then 3000 using an automotive DA running at about 60 pounds air pressure because I dont want it running wide open. Make sure you take your time going through the grits. At 3000 you should see a good shine at that point. I then go through 3 3M polishes and I end up with a sheet of glass.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think probably what is happening is CyiDev doesn't have experience in rubbing out a finish and probably doesn't realize just how much elbow grease it takes. He may not be sanding long enough with each grit before he changes to a finer one. Then it's too much to compound out.


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

Steve Neul said:


> I think probably what is happening is CyiDev doesn't have experience in rubbing out a finish and probably doesn't realize just how much elbow grease it takes. He may not be sanding long enough with each grit before he changes to a finer one. Then it's too much to compound out.


I agree, thats why I suggested to take time and go through the grits. Alot of people make a mistake in that area. 2000 grit should actually start looking like its starting to buff out. 3000 has a slight shine to it.


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## CyiDev (Oct 30, 2016)

I have tested in an area and i spent quite a bit of time rubbing 3000 grit. Then went to the turtle wax compound. Its a small area 2x6" and it appears nice and even i dont see the white haze, is there a grit that would fall between the turtle wax and the 3000 so I could remove even more of the scratches from the 3000 ?


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## ColorStylist (Jul 19, 2014)

CyiDev said:


> I have tested in an area and i spent quite a bit of time rubbing 3000 grit. Then went to the turtle wax compound. Its a small area 2x6" and it appears nice and even i dont see the white haze, is there a grit that would fall between the turtle wax and the 3000 so I could remove even more of the scratches from the 3000 ?


You shouldn't have any scratches at 3000. 

I would go back to 1500 and sand some more, or alot, then go back to 3000 and sand, alot.


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