# Shop-made roller guides/hold-downs for band saw, TS, etc...



## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

I was watching a YouTube video and saw a guy using a store bought roller guide to hold the workpiece against his band saw fence. It also served to allow the workpiece to be cut up into a bunch of slices of the same thickness (by using it as a stop when sliding the fence over for the next cut).

I've seen the commercially available roller guide idea before. They can be used as band saw stock guides (to keep the workpiece against the fence). The idea can easily be employed as TS hold downs as well. Just keep in mind that they aren't going to halt kickback. But they sure might prevent kickback from occurring in the first place. Or use them to keep stock against a router table fence.

Anyway, it struck me how easy it would be to create my own roller guides that would be just as good or better than the store bought ones.
*
I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE, GUYS. I EDITED THIS BECAUSE THE INFORMATION CONFLICTS WITH A SUBMISSION I MADE TO SHOPNOTES MAGAZINE. I PROMISE THIS ERROR ON MY PART WON'T BE REPEATED IN THE FUTURE. I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.

FOR ANYONE WHO MISSED IT IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM, IT WAS THIS TYPE OF GUIDE THAT I WAS REFERRING TO (ONLY SANS THE DEPTH GUIDE FEATURE):* 

http://www.rockler.com/how-to/wp-content/uploads/Rockler-Thin-Rip-Table-Saw-Jig.jpg


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

*I sincerely apologize, guys. I edited this because the information conflicts with a submission i made to ShopNotes magazine. I promise this error on my part won't be repeated in the future. I hope you understand.
*


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

*i sincerely apologize, guys. I edited this because the information conflicts with a submission i made to shopnotes magazine. I promise this error on my part won't be repeated in the future. I hope you understand.*


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

*I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE, GUYS. I EDITED THIS BECAUSE THE INFORMATION CONFLICTS WITH A SUBMISSION I MADE TO SHOPNOTES MAGAZINE. I PROMISE THIS ERROR ON MY PART WON'T BE REPEATED IN THE FUTURE. I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.

If you were already involved in the thread and this alteration affects you, please email me and I promise I won't leave you hanging. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING.
*


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*so simple, so easy*

Perfect little helpmate for the shop. It would make a cool thin rip stop positioned on the left side of the blade. Many uses as you said. Nice.:thumbsup:


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Great build thread! I love seeing these simple inexpensive jigs being built. This is definitely going in my to do file.

Mark


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

In case it's not clear in the photographs, when it's set up for use, it's set so that the bearing contacts the wood about 1/4" before the leading edge of the blade.


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Nicely done. Puts me in mind of the thin rip gauge sold by Rockler.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Very nice!

The resaw versions are made to resemble roller conveyor systems.Except that they are upright in the "vert" plane instead of traditional flat,horizontal.Most are a 1/2 dz or so rollers ranging from 4 -10 inches in height.

You can also steal skateboard wheels from the neighbor kids...but the older,flat type work better.Find them at yardsales,flea markets.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

This is some I use. The first is a hold down I have on a router table. The second is a brush I use on the shaper. The third is a sears miter gauge I modified to use on a table saw I made a router table out of where I'm tenoning.


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## bladeburner (Jun 8, 2013)

Very good tutorial...
I have something similar from the 80s using a toilet bolt (when they were readily available), and my bearings are a lot smaller. 
I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get some thanks in the near future.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

johnnie52 said:


> Nicely done. Puts me in mind of the thin rip gauge sold by Rockler.


Actually, Johnnie, you hit the nail right on the head. I just Googled "Rockler thin rip gauge" and, bingo! That's exactly the item I saw in that video. :thumbsup: I tried to find a picture of it before I posted this thread but I was searching Rockler's site under "feather boards", "roller" and "hold down" and couldn't find it. Now I know what they call it.


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## Alan Sweet (Aug 16, 2013)

*Great thread.*

Maybe I need to ask a question to push it a bit. I like the approach to thin cuts and the band saw.

WRT the re-sawing, can this method be adapted ti re saw pieces say 5 " x 3/4", 4 or 5 feet long. I can get nice re saw on my band saw, most of the time. But I can get variation in final thickness; Even across the piece.

Can a large jig be created which will support a thin but wide piece in re sawing?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that's a whole 'nother discussion*

But briefly I would say no, this device is too low off the table to stabilze a wide board for resawing. Lots of discussion on resawing here and on You Tube.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> But briefly I would say no, this device is too low off the table to stabilze a wide board for resawing. Lots of discussion on resawing here and on You Tube.


Correct. But that's not to say that several couldn't be stacked (perhaps with spacers) to create a taller unit. Or several roller banks could be installed into a talker piece of wood.

The main concept I was hoping to get across was how easy it is to make the roller blocks. The end configuration can take many forms.


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## TerryB (May 4, 2013)

It seems to me the tricky part of stacking them might be getting the exposed bearing edges precisely aligned. Maybe some kind of frame to hold them in alignment while they are screwed together? Might be tough if they weren't all identically shaped.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I resaw using a tall fence*

I set the dimension of the piece I want between the blade and the fence, not like this application where the work is bumped to the device. I press the work firmly against the fence keeping as vertical as possible while feeding it into the blade.
I did make a 8" tall roller pressure feed using solid steel rollers for an industrial application on a 30" bandsaw. The rollers had a bearing top and bottom so there was no issue about stacking separate bearings and getting them aligned perfectly. One axle could make that less on an issue. Mine looked like this:












I remember a thread a type of roller support...... :blink:
Something like this:


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

TerryB said:


> It seems to me the tricky part of stacking them might be getting the exposed bearing edges precisely aligned. Maybe some kind of frame to hold them in alignment while they are screwed together? Might be tough if they weren't all identically shaped.


Either make a tall one where each bearing shares the same axle (as Woodnthings just mentioned) or make it so that each one could be pressed against the workpiece before tightening. Not too hard to work around.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Personally I think the tool manufacturers are missing a big opportunity. Most everyone knows about the resaw bandsaws which are big industrial machines. I don't know why one of them doesn't make one about the size of a portable planer for the home shop. I think I could modify a portable planer to do that if I had machine shop tools so I know places like grizzly or baileigh could do it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Makita used to make one*



Steve Neul said:


> Personally I think the tool manufacturers are missing a big opportunity. Most everyone knows about the resaw bandsaws which are big industrial machines. I don't know why one of them doesn't make one about the size of a portable planer for the home shop. I think I could modify a portable planer to do that if I had machine shop tools so I know places like grizzly or baileigh could do it.


LIke this: http://www.oxide.org/bandsaw/










As did Hitachi:


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Good looking fabrications guys!

WRT bandsaw power feeders,this is the style we're making.For a cpl reasons which fit into our shop profile...may not be worth a hoot to the next guy.Its basically just another edge sander build for us....albeit at an adj snails pace,haha.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*really cool !*

BW, What do you use for a variable drive? I know that the Grizzly 12" drum sander has a small variable speed drive belt and motor. I wonder if the parts can be purchased separately or if there is a better solution pricewise.... any ******* ideas from the really underground garage? :laughing:

Steve sorry for the sidetrack, but this thread has prompted some great responses...JMO. They are still on the feed/fence/roller support concept, I think?


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

It's a secret Bill.........but they're being given away on C-lists everyday in the "health" section,haha.Some even come with trick,heads up,real time display modules.

And not really sidetracking(ha) Steve's thread.......well,maybe a little.But check out this vert roller track.And be sure to notice the drive system.It's neither the conventional std issue rubber tires OR sand belts.It's the old school steel wheel.

http://www.mwmachinery.co.uk/saws-various/band-resaws/used-stennervhm-36-band-resaw.aspx


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> LIke this: http://www.oxide.org/bandsaw/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 No, this is what I would build if I was so equipped.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*OK, so the planer feeds the bandsaw ?*

But those planers only have 2 feed speeds AFAIK, and those may not be the correct feed rate for your resaw....depending on thickness and wood type.... I donno?

I do like the concept however. The Grizzly baby 12" drum sander DOES have a variable speed feed belt system and would be a better choice for that setup in my opinion. As BW mentioned a treadmill drive would also work, probably wouldn't need it as wide though. Where did you find that image or did you combine the 2 in a photoshop program?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I think if someone was able to build it they could modify the feed rate as well. Probably all it would take is to put a seperate variable speed motor on the feed rollers than the band saw. I imagine the outfeed roller would have to be moved further back or it would pinch the blade. I think 12"or 13" would be a perfect size for a home shop. 

I used photoshop. I used the image of the "saw-open" from the link you posted and turned it 90 degrees clockwise and cut and pasted the dewalt planer over it.


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## ptofimpact (Apr 29, 2013)

Chaincarver Steve, Thank you for a great idea, and a complete description of your project with excellent photos, maybe even I can follow it, ordered the kit from Peachtree.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

*Please don't be mad: email me if this alteration affects you.*

OK, I am so sorry guys... This is going to be awkward. I promise I won't let it happen again. Here's the situation:

Right after I started this thread I submitted the information to ShopNotes Magazine. However, I didn't realize that posting it elsewhere you be a potential violation of their conditions for buying a tip from you. I knew it couldn't be a tip that you've submitted to another magazine. But the whole forum aspect was in a gray zone.

So I emailed them yesterday to see if my submission was in possible violation of that clause and, well, it would be. On top of that, they are calling this tip a "strong contender" for their magazine. The tip about the dust collector for their shop-made belt sander project isn't of concern to them (because it is specifically regarding one of their exclusive projects). But I would have had to delete the images of the dust collection portion of the build had they requested. Honestly, I was fishing for a verdict on it as well in my email to them. But their response specifically said that it is OK. Though I was prepared to have to delete those photos out of the belt sander thread as to not be in violation.

So now I'm torn. Do I leave this up and forfeit my chance to get paid for another tip for possible publication in their magazine? I've decided to retroactively honor their terms of submission and delete the build info in this thread.

*I did copy the thread (just as it appears in the forum, photos included) into a WORD file. Any one who might be CURRENTLY following this thread and planning to make their own PLEASE EMAIL ME AT " [email protected] " AND I WILL EMAIL YOU THE WORD FILE CONTAINING ALL THE INFORMATION. I don't want to leave anyone hanging out in the breeze.* Otherwise, HOPEFULLY, you'll be able to read about it in ShopNotes sometimes in the future.

I am very sorry for any issues this may create. I'll be sure not to submit tips to the magazines that I've already posted here. I understand their reasoning. And I sincerely hope you guys understand my reasoning for my retraction. I also hope you forgive me for doing so. Again, if you're already involved please email me and I promise I will not leave you hanging. 

I wish they'd state on their tips submission form that your tip should be one NOT already submitted elsewhere (I guess they're trying to be fair so that one could sell their tips to whomever shows interest first). But that only become clear once it's reached the state where they email you to express interest in purchasing the tip. Anyway, I really don't want legal conflicts. Nor do I want to spoil my relationship with ShopNotes or any of their other publications. Especially since I plan to continue submitting tips in hopes of piquing their interest and maybe seeing some of my stuff printed between their pages... and making a few extra dollars in the process.

I promise it won't happen again. :blink:


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

ptofimpact said:


> Chaincarver Steve, Thank you for a great idea, and a complete description of your project with excellent photos, maybe even I can follow it, ordered the kit from Peachtree.


Please email, as mentioned in the above post.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Steve, 

I for one wouldn't think any less of you if you opted to delete this thread.

Go for ShopNotes publication.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

All, I converted the build portion of thus thread to PDF. If Steve decides to delete this thread and anyone wants a copy just pm me your e.mail address and I'll send it to you.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

jharris2 said:


> All, I converted the build portion of thus thread to PDF. If Steve decides to delete this thread and anyone wants a copy just pm me your e.mail address and I'll send it to you.


And I saved the thread as a Microsoft WORD document for the sake of the one or two members who may actually be building one based off of this thread. I won't be spreading the info around past them, but I didn't want to screw over anyone - such as member _ptofimpact _- who already ordered the hardware based on my recommendation.

Thanks for understanding. I kind of feel bad for altering the thread. But it was my own mistake for submitting the information here AND elsewhere. Honestly, at the time, it didn't strike me as a conflict because this forum is in no way connected to any other woodworking publication. But as I reread the agreement it occurred to me that, perhaps, I was in possible violation of a legal agreement. So I had to get email clarification before submitting any other tips. And, most importantly, before I dare cash the check I received for the dust collection tip. I'll just take care not to repeat the error in the future.

The last thing I want to do is burn bridges. Here or there. :no:


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It doesn't bother me. You are welcome to use anything I have posted.


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Also Steve, I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say best of luck with your submissions to ShopNotes.

Please keep us posted.


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

No problem here that I can see.....:icon_smile:


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## chopnhack (Dec 16, 2007)

That is awesome Steve, I hope you get it!! I too have submitted in the past but haven't been lucky enough yet.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

chopnhack said:


> That is awesome Steve, I hope you get it!! I too have submitted in the past but haven't been lucky enough yet.


I got lucky once so far. And 'the man' has indicated that they have interest in this tip as well. No commitment yet, mind you. But a positive hint that it's a 'strong candidate' for their mag. Not too bad for only having submitted two - maybe three, I forget - tips to them so far.


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## chopnhack (Dec 16, 2007)

What was your previous entry that they published?
I submitted an article on a children's bedrail to keep them from falling out of bed - wooden of course that could also be used as a baby gate, pet barrier, etc. The bed area is too well articled but I figured this was a different angle


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

chopnhack said:


> What was your previous entry that they published?
> I submitted an article on a children's bedrail to keep them from falling out of bed - wooden of course that could also be used as a baby gate, pet barrier, etc. The bed area is too well articled but I figured this was a different angle


Nothing published (yet). But they did buy a tip I submitted for a dust collection housing for the shop-made belt sander project they featured in an issue. Great sadder, by the way. Definitely a great project and addition to the shop. But it really needed dust collection. So I designed my own. And it looks like it was always meant to be. Not to mention it works exceptionally well.

As far as submitting tips to magazines goes, there's no way to know what is going to be a winner. I imagine they receive way more tip submissions than they could ever use. When they weed through them all, who knows which will stand or fall?


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## chopnhack (Dec 16, 2007)

I remember reading that particular issue, I mentally stored away that sander for the future. I could surely use one of those, but wasn't sure how well it would perform. Do you find anything lacking? I can't believe that was from November's issue!!


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

chopnhack said:


> I remember reading that particular issue, I mentally stored away that sander for the future. I could surely use one of those, but wasn't sure how well it would perform. Do you find anything lacking? I can't believe that was from November's issue!!


Other than it lacking much-needed dust collection (which I solved), I think it's a very solid performer. Dare I say it's every bit as good as a good store bought unit. And much better than the cheapie units on the market. If you build the ShopNotes Shop-Made Belt Sander, just take your time and follow the instructions carefully (especially concerning the correct sequence of steps when drilling for the bearings) and you'll certainly be very satisfied with the end result. I know I am. I've used mine quite a lot so far.

Some day I want to build their long edge sander project. And so many more. I love the idea of making tools that you can use and appreciate and be proud of.


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## chopnhack (Dec 16, 2007)

Agreed! ty


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

While I still feel it was a jerk move of mine to have posted this only to retrace the information from the thread, I can at least report that it wasn't in vain. I got the email yesterday that ShopNote is sending me a check for this tip submission. So, with any luck, it'll grace the pages of a future ShopNotes issue.


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## Burb (Nov 30, 2012)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> While I still feel it was a jerk move of mine to have posted this only to retrace the information from the thread, I can at least report that it wasn't in vain. I got the email yesterday that ShopNote is sending me a check for this tip submission. So, with any luck, it'll grace the pages of a future ShopNotes issue.


Who has two thumbs and knows a celebrity? This guy....

Mark


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I thought you meant roller guide.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

I received my check this morning. Now I just need to join the ranks of member BernieL and have one of my tips actually appear in print. if you haven't already, check this thread out:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/congratulations-berniel-shopnotes-mag-tip-56400/#post532154



Pirate said:


> I thought you meant roller guide.


Nice. :thumbsup:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Way to go Bernie!


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

This tip submission is in the latest ShopNotes magazine (issue #133). Also, the idea they purchased from me for my dust collector attachment for their Shop-Built Belt Sander is in this issue as well. The best news is that my dust collection tip was chosen as "top Tip" and won me a Porter Cable compact router kit w/fixed and plunge bases!

I'll be quite lucky lately. That's 3 tool wins just this year! Plus several tips being sold to magazines. Add to that the receiving of an AWESOME gift from member Art Rafael and this just might be my luckiest year ever! Well, second only to the year my wife married me. But this is a close runner-up. :thumbsup:


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## jharris2 (Jul 9, 2012)

Way to go Steve!

Don't sell yourself short. You're an inventive and talented guy.

Luck had nothing to do with your success.


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