# Fast Dry Poly VS. Ultra Fast Dry Poly???



## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

We normally use the handy Rust Polly....









Works great as far as I can tell. While shopping today, needed some more and decided to get a larger can of it. Well they only had 'gloss' so I went with another brand...










Can someone PLEASE explain the difference? This Minwax takes ages to dry....even thought it says fast drying. The Rustoleum brand dry's almost instantly!

Is one better than the other? ...Why?

Thanks again and Happy 4th to everyone!


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Well, the first difference is that particular Minwax is Oil-based poly which is why it takes longer to dry than the Rust-oleum which I assume is a WB poly (as it cleans up in soap and water). If you want to use Minwax WB poly, it is in a blue can and will probably dry just as fast as the Rust-oleum you have been using.


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

Thanks Tim! But what about the quality of finish? Is this something I should spend some time researching? I was hoping one the pros on woodworkingtalk.com could point me in the right direction. I don't mind waiting, and in fact I see a difference with the slower (Minwax) poly but when I lightly sand the Rust brand in between coats (usually 3) it gives a nice finish. But that is only to my untrained eye.....anything in particular I should be looking for?


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm certainly nowhere near a pro, but I do use the Minwax OB Poly regularly and like it. Being an oil base, it has a amber color to it whereas WB poly will dry colorless. I like the slight color that the OB has, but you may not want that for some projects. With the longer dry times with OB, you can get more dust nubs than with WB. I don't think you will notice a difference in the "quality" between the two finishes other than the color and maybe the extra dust nubs you may have to remove when using the OB. If I had the capability to spray, I would probably only use the WB, since I don't, I thin the OB and wipe on almost all my applications, and like the results I get.


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## bob sacamano (Jan 24, 2012)

i like the minwax. i used it on a 1950 high school workbench. i use it as a desk. water spills. coffee spills. food spills. nothing bothers this finish. ive used this desk over a year and scratches dont happen. 

plus it was easy to use.


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

thanks Bob! But I am trying to get at the angle of "is it better if it takes longer"? LOL..you know...the ole "good things come to those who wait" Is tehre a reason to select/purchase the oil based (longer dry time) poly?


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

trc65 said:


> I'm certainly nowhere near a pro, but I do use the Minwax OB Poly regularly and like it. Being an oil base, it has a amber color to it whereas WB poly will dry colorless. I like the slight color that the OB has, but you may not want that for some projects. With the longer dry times with OB, you can get more dust nubs than with WB. I don't think you will notice a difference in the "quality" between the two finishes other than the color and maybe the extra dust nubs you may have to remove when using the OB. If I had the capability to spray, I would probably only use the WB, since I don't, I thin the OB and wipe on almost all my applications, and like the results I get.




Thanks again Tim...If you check out my link in my signature, you can see the kind of things we are working on. Most of our projects can be coated in less than 2 minutes. Color is also important, we just need a protective coating....nothing more. 

Guess I thought that was what poly was for.


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## tc65 (Jan 9, 2012)

Ryn0nTX said:


> "is it better if it takes longer"? LOL..you know...the ole "good things come to those who wait" Is tehre a reason to select/purchase the oil based (longer dry time) poly?


No, longer is not "better", at least not when talking drying times:laughing: Longer dry times can actually cause more problems (dust nubs, drips and runs, longer time before re-coating). I think the real difference between the two types is color, speed of drying, application equipment you have available and orientation of the project you are finishing. Of course there is also a big price difference between OB and WB poly.

Edit: I just looked at your signs. With all the colors you are using I would stick with the WB poly. The oil based poly (with 2-3 coats) will add enough of an amber tint to alter the colors in the signs.


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

no...price is about the same....so why the option? Seems all would want to have it dry faster so they can progress with their project??? Not a big deal, just strikes me curious....

Thanks again Tim! Looking forward to see what everyone else has to say when they wake up.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Ryn0nTX said:


> no...price is about the same....so why the option? Seems all would want to have it dry faster so they can progress with their project??? Not a big deal, just strikes me curious....


All waterbase polyurethanes aren't the same. But, generally, they dry clear and fast and are odor free. Some are suitable for finishing floors. WB finishes much better when sprayed. OB finishes have a longer dry time...prolonging use, and has an odor that will last well beyond when it dries.









 







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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

The best finish for duribility is the slow drying oil based polyurethane. If you have a dirty place to finish where dust is a problem then the faster drying oil base polyurethane might be better suited for you. The faster poly has a shorter life as far as duribility but both are far superior to any water based product.


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

*all about speed...*



trc65 said:


> Edit: I just looked at your signs. With all the colors you are using I would stick with the WB poly. The oil based poly (with 2-3 coats) will add enough of an amber tint to alter the colors in the signs.




Thanks again Tim. These projects are simple, mostly made for indoors (some for porch decorations). The deal is that Angel (my better half) is uhm...a little impatient :bangin: and has 10 new ideas everyday! I am trying to keep up by doing all of the prep work on the wood. I brought this "Fast Drying" oil based poly home and it was not humorous when she fussed about it not being dry three hours later.

So, I do need to move these projects along quickly. I believe the WB stuff will be best for us....for now. As she said, we could put 6 coats (30 min each) of the WB on in the time it takes for just one coat of the OB poly :gun_bandana:::::

I just wanted to understand the difference of the two. While I am still a little confused, I suppose it doesn't matter since we really need speed more than anything.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

One difference is that WB and OB are compatible, I presume, with different additives, such as colorings. I don't know. maybe I'm just blowing smoke.

EDIT:

And water based goes on a little thinner so may need an extra coat in some situations. Oil based is a little more durable.


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## HowardAcheson (Nov 25, 2011)

>>>> of "is it better if it takes longer"?

It does not mean it's better or worse based on drying time. That's not a good way to judge a finish. There are some excellent fast drying finishes and some excellent slow drying finishes.

In the case of the two finishes you are asking about, the Rust-Oleum is a waterborne finish so it dries very rapidly. But, like almost all one part waterborne finishes, it is not as protective or as durable as a good oil based finish. The Minwax Fast Dry is an OK oil based finish that will dry rapidly if applied as per the instructions on the can. It must be applied in thin film coats or the top surface will dry before the lower portion and drying will be significantly slowed.

Waterborne finishes and oil based finishes are quite different in chemistry and in performance. Like all finishing decisions, it should be based on what you want the finish to do and what characteristics you want from your finish.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Ryn0nTX said:


> So, I do need to move these projects along quickly. I believe the WB stuff will be best for us....for now. As she said, we could put 6 coats (30 min each) of the WB on in the time it takes for just one coat of the OB poly :gun_bandana:::::
> 
> I just wanted to understand the difference of the two. While I am still a little confused, I suppose it doesn't matter since *we really need speed more than anything.*


From your responses it seems paramount your needs are a coating that's clear and fast. You can get an off-the-shelf waterbase finish at Home Depot called Parks Pro Finisher. There is a catalyst available for it. It is suitable for flooring which is likely more durability than you need.









 







.


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> EDIT:
> 
> And water based goes on a little thinner so may need an extra coat in some situations. Oil based is a little more durable.



Thanks guys... We obviously want the projects we make to have a nice and durable finish. Quality is very important to us. But if all it does is hang on a wall...?...what is needed?

Speaking of "thin coats" ...???? what is a thin coat? We use foam brushes...is that an issue? It does seem to go on heavy, and once you put one coat on (and the brush is heavily loaded) the second coat seems 'streaky'....any thoughts?

-Ryan


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

If your project just hangs on the wall than any finish could last a lifetime. It's when a project is used and abused especially if exposed to alcoholic drinks or water the finish makes a difference. 

As far as the thickness of the finish I normally put a finish on interior work about 3 mil's thick. It's about the thickness of a sheet of polyethylene plastic. With most finishes you can't achieve this in one coat so it takes two or three coats to achieve this. With any water based finish I've ever tried they are thinner and takes twice as many coats to achieve this. Part of the reason though is they raise the grain and you end up sanding a lot of it off, sanding between coats trying to smooth it out.

I don't care much for foam brushes for finishes. They seem to squeegee the finish rather than applying it. Also I've had small bits of them flake off into the finish. They work for stain very well. With a foam brush it doesn't drip as much. For brushing a finish I use a very soft Wooster paint brush.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Ryn0nTX said:


> Thanks guys... We obviously want the projects we make to have a nice and durable finish. Quality is very important to us. But if all it does is hang on a wall...?...what is needed?
> 
> Speaking of "thin coats" ...???? what is a thin coat? We use foam brushes...is that an issue? It does seem to go on heavy, and once you put one coat on (and the brush is heavily loaded) the second coat seems 'streaky'....any thoughts?
> 
> -Ryan


I too use foam brushes for poly. Works great. The streaking may be because the previous coat hasn't thoroughly dried. Or it could be that you're using an applicator with hardened finish in it. I end up using a fresh foam brush for each coat.

If you're using satin polyurethane, most of the streaking will become invisible after it dries. With gloss, however, streaks will be much more obvious.


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

Thanks Steve (chaincarver)...yeah the foam brushes are real cheap and that does make sense. I was coating some projects today and thought of your comments. Even though the poly dries fast, it also dries fast on your brush :thumbdown:. 

As far as the gloss goes, because 99% of our projects are signs/pictures...we thought it would be best to keep the 'shine' to a minimum. That's why we chose the satin finish...am I right? 

Thanks again for your input :smile:

----Thank you as well Steve Neul...your comments didn't go unnoticed. I agree with you about the "squeegee" affect. However I can't personally see an issue, with exception to how much poly is wasted when only doing a small project. The only time I had the brush 'flake' was when the stock was rough or splintered. I try to avoid this is long before applying poly. Were you talking about something else I should be watching for?


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Ryn0nTX said:


> Thanks Steve (chaincarver)...yeah the foam brushes are real cheap and that does make sense. I was coating some projects today and thought of your comments. Even though the poly dries fast, it also dries fast on your brush :thumbdown:.


I sometimes buy my foam brushes at the $1 store (Dollar Tree). They'll have packages of 6 foam brushes for $1. That's cheaper than anywhere else I've found and they're just as good.

When finish starts to dry in the foam pads the pad stops making full contact with the workpiece you're trying to coat. So you miss lots of area. And the parts that do contact want to dig in. So, between the two, you'll get tons of streaking. 

As a small bonus, when I toss the old pad I keep the wooden handle and add it to my dowel stock.



> As far as the gloss goes, because 99% of our projects are signs/pictures...we thought it would be best to keep the 'shine' to a minimum. That's why we chose the satin finish...am I right?


I agree.



> Thanks again for your input :smile:


No problem. I hope you got your streaking under control :laughing:


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## Ryn0nTX (Jun 27, 2012)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> As a small bonus, when I toss the old pad I keep the wooden handle and add it to my dowel stock.


Very smart! Never thought of this. lol...and don't get me started with doweling! I just bought a dowel jig the other day....look for posts soon nline2long:


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