# Butt Joints?



## Jimbow (Jun 10, 2011)

I am working on an old Victorian house and many of the doors and windows have small gaps (spaces) where vertical and horizontal wooden pieces meet. Is this a "butt joint"? And if so, what does one use to fill this gap prior to painting? Caulk says not to use it there, and so does most of the filler products I tend to be using. Can someone please clarify this annoying issue for me?


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## Victory 1 (Jul 23, 2011)

Crawfords painters putty maybe a good choice.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Jimbow said:


> I am working on an old Victorian house and many of the doors and windows have small gaps (spaces) where vertical and horizontal wooden pieces meet. Is this a "butt joint"? And if so, what does one use to fill this gap prior to painting? Caulk says not to use it there, and so does most of the filler products I tend to be using. Can someone please clarify this annoying issue for me?


What to use may depend on the size of the gap, and where it's located. The problem with filling butt joint gaps are shrinking, cracking, and separating from the pieces by the fill. If the gap is deep, you may have to apply several applications to bring up the level suitably to paint.

For small gaps you could use a paintable caulk. For deep or wide fill, you could use Bondo, or Durhams Rock Hard, or any of the wood putties. Some gaps can be filled with just spackle if they aren't too large. 












 







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## tcleve4911 (Dec 16, 2006)

If they're gaps that change with the weather, I recommend a flexible painters caulking.


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## Jimbow (Jun 10, 2011)

I cannot help but ask the question: Why do all the caulk tubes state DO NOT use for butt joints? On several older doors and windows I have, the butt joints are open and I would like to fill them in and paint. But will that inhibit any expansion/contraction that may be caused by the weather? Also, several of these joints on the doors tend to let lose and cause the door to drag at the floor. Might I glue these troublesome butt joints?


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## clampman (Oct 20, 2006)

> Why do all the caulk tubes state DO NOT use for butt joints?


When the mechanical bond (or the glue bond) fails in a butt joint, the joint opens when the humidity drops and causes shrinkage. If you fill the gap with caulk, then later in the year when the humidity increases again and the board swells, the caulk, if dry, will force the boards further apart, increasing the gap during the next shrinkage cycle. 



> On several older doors and windows I have, the butt joints are open and I would like to fill them in and paint. But will that inhibit any expansion/contraction that may be caused by the weather?


 You cannot inhibit expansion and contraction over a wide butt joint. Even 200 year old boards will expand and contract. If you fill them they will simply be pushing against whatever you filled them with.



> Also, several of these joints on the doors tend to let lose and cause the door to drag at the floor. Might I glue these troublesome butt joints?


I assume you are talking about the door and window components themsleves - the stiles and rails. Yes, you can indeed re-glue and clamp them. If they are panneled doors, you must not get any glue in the slots the panels go into. They are designed to expand and contract within the slots. 

The wide rails (the lock rail and bottom rail), should be glued only in the middle 4 inches or so. This will allow the rail above and below the glued section to expand and contract freely, putting less pressure on the glued portion of the joint. 

If you are not talking about the actual door components themselves, but the whole door sagging within the door jamb, run long screws through the top hinge all the way into the framing behind the jamb, and that will lift up the door knob side of the door (the striker-side stile) within the jamb.


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## Jimbow (Jun 10, 2011)

*Thanks alot*

That answers a few of my questions, but it also opens up a few more. I suspect a few pics will aide me in focusing on my exact problem, as well as enabling you to offer me a more precise response. I'll see if they are already loaded in the computer, or need to be retaken. I truly appreciate your time in responding to my questions.


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## Jimbow (Jun 10, 2011)

*No pics on hand*

Let me try to describe the butt joints I am referring to. On the old doors, the top piece that runs horizontally between the to ends running vertically that support the hinges on one side and the lockset on the other. That vertical joint (about 4 to 4-1/2" in height) has opened up about 1/8" on both ends. Might I glue and clamp them together? I also have a few old double-hung windows that are coming apart at the joints where the "frame" joins in the lower corners of the top window. I'd like to glue them together, too.


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