# Help with frame



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

Hello, I am building a frame for a mirror that will have an inlay. I think cutting and routing out 1 long strip, then cutting my 45’s x4 would be the best way to do this…I have a question about the type of jig I need to make sure everything is uniform.…I want to mention that I have a very limited set up and like no budget for the stuff most woodworkers consider basic, like a router table for instance, so please keep that in mind.

I’ve included a sketch to better explain. I know I could clamp or screw down some 2x4’s to use as a guide for the lips of the inlay, but I was wanting something not as temporary and a little more accurate….I have no idea what the best way to cut the inset for the mirror. Oh…I’m using 3/4” I believe it’s birch? plywood..


----------



## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

Karri_B said:


> Hello, I am building a frame for a mirror that will have an inlay. I think cutting and routing out 1 long strip, then cutting my 45’s x4 would be the best way to do this…I have a question about the type of jig I need to make sure everything is uniform.…I want to mention that I have a very limited set up and like no budget for the stuff most woodworkers consider basic, like a router table for instance, so please keep that in mind.
> 
> I’ve included a sketch to better explain. I know I could clamp or screw down some 2x4’s to use as a guide for the lips of the inlay, but I was wanting something not as temporary and a little more accurate….I have no idea what the best way to cut the inset for the mirror. Oh…I’m using 3/4” I believe it’s birch? plywood..
> 
> ...


No reason why you can't plow that out using a decent guide on a hand held router. Make sure the stock is secured and your router is stabilized.


----------



## Colosnoball (Oct 16, 2021)

Karri_B said:


> Hello, I am building a frame for a mirror that will have an inlay. I think cutting and routing out 1 long strip, then cutting my 45’s x4 would be the best way to do this…I have a question about the type of jig I need to make sure everything is uniform.…I want to mention that I have a very limited set up and like no budget for the stuff most woodworkers consider basic, like a router table for instance, so please keep that in mind.
> 
> I’ve included a sketch to better explain. I know I could clamp or screw down some 2x4’s to use as a guide for the lips of the inlay, but I was wanting something not as temporary and a little more accurate….I have no idea what the best way to cut the inset for the mirror. Oh…I’m using 3/4” I believe it’s birch? plywood..
> 
> ...


Nice drawing! Your design details are well done and understandable. 

But the main mystery is what do you have in your toolkit? 

Do you own or have access to a bench vise, miter box, back saw, router plane, shoulder plane, and an xacto knife set or a tablesaw with dado blades, an accurate chop saw and a power router with an adjustable fence? 

A suggestion for your design is you might consider splining the miters, If you have a router or a plow plane with a small width cutter, cutting a slot in the edges of the miter to insert a spline will add a lot of strength to the assembly. You can also do the slots on a table saw with a jig for the table saw fence that holds the pieces.

For your 1" wide sinkings aka slots for the inlay, you can do this with an old fashioned non power hand router or a power router with a good dedicated same brand adjustable fence. your strips need to be well clamped to hold still while you route. 

You can also cut the inlay sinkings the old fashioned slow way with a layout line of the exact longitudinal edges cut with a sharp xacto knife or box cutter with a straightedge clamped on for each side of the slot. Use a sharp 1" chisel carefully to cut out the waste between the two razer line cuts at the edges and carefully gage your sinkings to the correct depth (3/16"). Essentially, you are hand carving.

You can fine tune your miters with a strip of hardwood that has 120 sandpaper glued to two front and back parallel sides by placing the sanding strip between the two miters to be tuned and sanding back and forth. If you're only making one or a few of these, a band clamp, nylon string with a short wood turnbuckle tightener or several adequate length "f" clamps will hold it together while the glue drys in the miters. Be sure and put your mirror in the slot previously cut before you start gluing or better yet, turn your mirror slot into an open edge rabbit and put the glass in after the frame has been glued up and finished. You can hold the mirror into the rabbit (rebate) with small brads or triangle holders made for the purpose and available at most hobby and art stores.

When you go to glue everything together, do so on a solid flat surface protected from glue slop with newspaper, butchers paper, wax paper or something. Weight the top with a couple of longer 2x2 or wider long boards that span the entire constructed frame and put some books on the boards to keep the assembly flat for the glue set time required.

Good luck and remember that this is just one opinion. There's many more ways to whip this horse.


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

First off, thank you so much for your detailed response....I gotta say I don't know what half the stuff you mentioned at the beginning even is....BUT....I do have both a plunge and fixed base router, but no guides, fences, sleds, etc. I also have a (not so accurate) compound miter saw as well as a table saw, several power sanders, and a Dremel and that's about it... 

Thank you for mentioning splining miters, that's something that would occur to me after I had put it all together. And I also think using the open edge rabbit like you suggested for the mirror instead of sinking it is probably more forgiving should I screw it up...plus safer...lets just say Band-Aid's stock goes up when I break out razor blades....


As for a guide...I was able to make a half-ass set-up with some 2x4's to cut a slot for a circle jig I made...I mean it kinda worked... I just used a bigger washer in the slot for the pivot, 🥴 But this inlay is for a mosaic with specifically placed and intricate grout lines, and a bigger washer won't cut it..lol...


For whatever reason, I can't seem to picture the guide I need to router out the inside width, and I know it's something simple, but my brain has given up on me, I think....
I'm sure I could build something, but there are so many DIY woodworking, router, jig, etc etc etc videos out there, I spent all day researching, and because I don't know a lot of the terminology, I waste so much time watching or reading the wrong ****.... I would be grateful if someone could help point me in a direction of what I should be looking for...
Thanks again!!


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*DO NOT assemble it first or cut all the pieces and then attempt to rout the inlay!*
If you have already done this, it will require more safety measures and a steady hand.
Do all your routing on the long length first. It's easier and safer.
Get another piece of wood that's the same thickness as your desired finish piece to add support for the router's base.
You don't want the router tipping as you move down the length using an edge guide:


router edge guide - Google Search


I have this one, but there are cheaper ones OR DIY ones you can make:








Porter-Cable Micro-adjust Edge Guides


Provides an accurate edge guide for straight and precise cuts.




www.rockler.com





There are two ways to rout a straight line on a workpiece:
1. An edge guide that attaches to the router. This will be expensive for a one-time project, but useful in the future.
OR ....
2. A straight edge that attaches to your workpiece. This is the cheapest DIY solution.
This video shows that method:




*

*


----------



## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Routing narrow boards by hand present a challenge. To keep the router stable place the piece between 2 strips of equal thickness. Guides can be screwed to those.

A simple router table:

Drill a 1” hole in a piece of ply
Screw Router base to ply
A strip of wood & clamps for a fence.
Sometimes alternate methods can achieve the same result. In this case, you could glue the inlay to 1/2” material, flush trim & the add strips of solid wood to either side. All you have to do is route the groove.


----------



## Colosnoball (Oct 16, 2021)

Karri_B said:


> First off, thank you so much for your detailed response....I gotta say I don't know what half the stuff you mentioned at the beginning even is....BUT....I do have both a plunge and fixed base router, but no guides, fences, sleds, etc. I also have a (not so accurate) compound miter saw as well as a table saw, several power sanders, and a Dremel and that's about it...
> 
> Thank you for mentioning splining miters, that's something that would occur to me after I had put it all together. And I also think using the open edge rabbit like you suggested for the mirror instead of sinking it is probably more forgiving should I screw it up...plus safer...lets just say Band-Aid's stock goes up when I break out razor blades....
> 
> ...


If you go the power router route, you need a fence for the base of the router to ride against. A dedicated same-brand router guide is better way to address this option however, just a good straight board nailed down strongly on top of one side of a couple more parallel boards that span your moulding can be set with careful measurements. Use a slightly undersize witdth router bit ie: 5/8" and reset your fence measurement for multiple passes. 

Another (and in my opinion superior) route is to use your table saw to advantage for every operation. If you have a dado blade set, and lots of motor HP, you could assemble a full width 3/4" wide setup, set to a 3/16" depth of cut and make one pass with your fence truly located for the exact pass. Use hold downs and feather boards to keep the pass over the saw perfect. Alternately, you can make multiple passes over a single blade set to the correct 3/16" depth of cut and hog out the 1" strip. You might want to make a couple of extra lengths of this moulding just in case there is a miter mess-up later. Again, use feather boards and hold downs as you pass the moulding through the table saw. It might be best to cut your opposite side rebate (rabbit) before you make the inlay sinking. If you're going to stick to your original idea for a slot for the mirror, you can cut that with a couple of passes and a slight fence move to widen the slot. You might want to make this 1/16" or so wider than your glass plate. 

For the splines on the miter ends, make a 12" square of mdf or plywood and cut it in half diagonally. Glue a set of support blocks between the two triangles and set your fence to center a cut for the mitered edges of the mouldings. Hold the mouding and the triangle strongly together and well above the sawblade and slide the assembly through the spline cut. You can also make a fancy jig shown in many woodworking books and videos that will hold your moulding for this operation. 

Set your miter gage for the table saw up with a sacrificial wood strip fence attached to the miter gage face and made longer than the mouldings on both ends. This sacrificial strip facing should be taller than the depth of your mouldings so that the full cut-off height of the mitered moulding is lower than that of the fence. Set your gage to the 45° cut and start cutting. Layout lines and thoughful and careful operation of your saw to cut all of the miters will give great results. A stop block set on the gages fence opposite the side closest to the blade will allow you to cut each piece to the exact same length.

If the bottom of the mouldings sinking is a little uneven you can make a sanding block slightly less than 1" width and sand the bottom. You could also cut it a little lower than 3/16" and use a putty knife to place a thin coating of filler to even the bedding substrate for your inlay. Depending on the type of glue you are planning to use, you may need do nothing to adjust the bed.


----------



## ereams65 (Dec 16, 2021)

I don't see how wide the frame pieces are, but I 2nd the "tablesaw" as the better alternate, based on what you've shared. Even without a Dado blade, you could cut out the center 3/16" with several passes. Using the router isn't difficult, however you should practice that process and would be much easier with a router table and it's fence involved. Just for reference, what I'm seeing is you want both the inside 3/16" are along with the outer perimeter 3/16" to be raised above the center area which is where the inlay would be. By all means, clear out that material while the board is long and then cut your 45s as one of the final steps.


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

Ok...thank you all SO much for the great information....and while going through it all, something occurred to me. I bought my plunge router a few years ago, it was from a lady who's father had passed away. She told me her father had a whole woodworking shop, that the router was the last of it and she gave me a box of random stuff that she wasn't really sure what it was. It looked to me like bits and pieces for some sort of table or saw attachment, but it wasn't all there, so I just put it up. Now, after reading all your replies, the AHA moment came and so I brought it out to reexamine it. I'm thinking I might be able to, with all your all's help of course, piece something together from this stuff. 


I will mention again that my knowledge of the verbiage and terminology is scant, I've never been taught the right words for stuff, so what may seem like a fairly straightforward explanation, can sound like gobbledy guk compared to my thingamabob and whatchacallits....in other words, I need examples of what you mean, and then I can stop using words like jigamaroo. 

Here is everything that was in the box she gave me. I numbered items in the photo that I don't have words for to hopefully bridge the gap between my lack of knowledge and everyone's willingness to share theirs....but like I said, examples are extremely helpful.

















Hopefully it's enough to cobble something together......and please know that I appreciate each of you that took the time to respond and share your knowledge, I am very grateful to have somewhere I'm able to ask questions that get answered quickly and thoroughly, without being patronized or made to feel dumb....I can't say that about every forum I've ever asked a question in....so THANK YOU!!❤😘


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Well, the items, no.4 may fit onto the blue aluminum plates no.1, and attach with the black knobs? See if the slots line up. The red discs, no. 2, fit into the aluminum plates no.1. These could be router related or not, but I suspect that they are.
The blue protective plastic on the plates is peeling off, suggesting those pieces were custom made but never used.


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

So #4...what would you call them? Wooden guide? Edge? Anyway, they *kinda line up with the slots in the base plate, but the knobs screws are too big for the slots in the base, but I'm guessing the knobs actually go with those guide things...I also tried to line up the plates to my used Ryobi plunge router, no good, however the screw holes do line up with my fixed base Ryobi router that I bought brand new...I also tried to see what else might go together and found that #3, that thin bar, has holes that line up with the deal that looks like a latch plate for a door #7....and that the knobs and that thick notched rod #5, both fit into #6...


I'm thinking I could sink that base plate into some plywood, for a make shift router table....?? And maybe somehow use #4 to make my edge guide? Maybe by replacing the wood blocks on top for something longer? 


Am I on the right track?


----------



## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

Google "BT3000 router kit". These all seem to be parts to make a router table as part of the old Ryobi BT3000 table saw.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

It's like playing Erector set on the web. Put all those parts together to make something, maybe? Best case would be to assemble how you think they would work and snap a photo of it. Post it here so we can see what it looks like.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

jdonhowe said:


> Google "BT3000 router kit". These all seem to be parts to make a router table as part of the old Ryobi BT3000 table saw.


YEP! Great tip. You must have one like it, so you knew what it was?








Ryobi BT3000 Table Saw Router Mounting Kit # 4950301 • $129.99


RYOBI BT3000 TABLE Saw Router Mounting Kit # 4950301 - $129.99. FOR SALE! Ryobi BT3000 Table Saw Router Mounting Kit # 4950301 What's Included: (1) - ROUTER MOUNTING KIT FOR BT3000 # 4950301Genuine OEM Replacement ROUTER MOUNTING KIT FOR BT3000 # 4950301This part replaces obsolete part #: and...




picclick.com


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

So once again, I am impressed by and very thankful to all of you...and after looking at how the stuff I have attaches to a table saw...and confidence in my abilities are quickly waning.... I wanted to see if I could find the right solution, cheaply, instead trying to bang my head with my half-as$ed one. So, I found these 2 items from someone not terribly far away, so even with an added $10 for gas , it seems like a good deal...But I wanted to ask if you guys would consider this to be a smart purchase or should I keep looking? I looked up the black and decker guide, and it will fit my router, but I couldn't find anything out about the craftsman table....let me know what you think....
I wish I could buy y'all a beer and just hang out and shoot the breeze awhile....I think I'd learn a lot 
-you guys
-me


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Yes, to the router guide. No on the router table.
That table was recently profiled here and received a bad review from almost everyone. It's too small, only works with Craftsman routers, not a good way to start out in general. There are a zillion ways to make a router table on You Tube that are larger, safer, cost under $20.00 etc.


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

woodnthings said:


> Yes, to the router guide. No on the router table.
> That table was recently profiled here and received a bad review from almost everyone. It's too small, only works with Craftsman routers, not a good way to start out in general. There are a zillion ways to make a router table on You Tube that are larger, safer, cost under $20.00 etc.



Woodnthings...thank you....if you are ever in the Phoenix east valley, please let me know, cuz I was serious about buying a beer...same goes for any of you that have posted in response to my question...

Oh and because I would love to be able to show ya all how it turns out...Can I post my finished product in this thread so y'all that helped can see it?


----------



## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> YEP! Great tip. You must have one like it, so you knew what it was?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya got me! I had one about 20 years ago- a flexible, innovative design that punched above its weight. It wasn't very robust, and I had to spend a lot of time realigning it. While it had its merits, I'm much happier using a sturdier, more traditionally designed hybrid table saw now.


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

ok...after all my trials and tribulations...I've gotten down to this...I screwed up, wasn't paying attention and cut one of the miters with the dado on the outside and not the inside of the frame...DOH! I had a scrap piece leftover from a different strip, cut the miters the exact same way as the other 3, but it's off a touch...any tips to align them?









I've been putting them together and shaving tiny bits where it doesn't line up, but I'm scared if I keep doing that, I'll muck the whole thing up cuz I've done that before on different projects...is there some trick to match them all up?
Or am I screwed and would be better off just starting a new strip?


I did put a sacrificial fence on the Ryobi miter...and all the miters from this strip matched up perfect except the one I cut upside down.... 😣


----------



## jdonhowe (Jul 25, 2014)

No guarantee, but sometimes you can salvage a poor miter fit by clamping two sides at a precise right angle (expecting an uneven gap in the joint). Use a handsaw (preferably with a stiff blade, like a back saw) to cut along the joint line; the saw kerf should help even out the joint. There are miter clamps, similar to this which include a guide for the saw. You may have to touch up all four joints, and trim as needed to make certain that the opposed sides are of identical length. Good luck!


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

Colosnoball said:


> A suggestion for your design is you might consider splining the miters, If you have a router or a plow plane with a small width cutter, cutting a slot in the edges of the miter to insert a spline will add a lot of strength to the assembly. You can also do the slots on a table saw with a jig for the table saw fence that holds the pieces.



I used a butt joint with biscuits instead of a miter join...does this replace the need for splines?


----------



## LilMtnDave (12 mo ago)

Although things have been identified...if you go to:
Craftsman 315 Series Table Saw with Router Table Extension
You will see a number of your parts. The router kit came with a Craftsman table saw with a router attachment.
Go to first post in the thread.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Karri_B said:


> I used a butt joint with biscuits instead of a miter join...does this replace the need for splines?


You know some things remain to be seen. There's no way to know which is stronger unless you test it, but generally speaking, biscuits don't add strength. Splines, especially with the grain opposite to the direction of the joint will add strength. Splines with the grain in the same direction as the joint will split easily with the grain.
In your case, I'm pretty sure the biscuits will add some amount of resistance to racking or additional strength.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Biscuits will be fine...

Nothing= no strength
Biscuit = some strength
Domino....some strength. Etc...


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

I think so too...It's only 9"x9", the mirror is thicker than I really need, but even with the weight of the mirror and mosaic combined, I think those joints will hold....soo excited to finish grouting and show you all my finished product!


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

well here it is...


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

But wait...there's more!!


----------



## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

WOW! very nice job! welocome to the woodworking ranks...


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Turned out nice...


----------



## Karri_B (Jan 10, 2022)

woodnthings said:


> You know some things remain to be seen.


You know...WNT...the only thing remaining to be seen now is.....


What you thought of the finished product with the mosaic? 


I can handle any criticism or 'atta girl's you're willing to dish out....

????


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Karri_B said:


> You know...WNT...the only thing remaining to be seen now is.....
> 
> 
> What you thought of the finished product with the mosaic?
> ...


My daughter does a lot of DIY projects around the house and her sons room. At first she asked for advise and borrowed tools, now i see the Finished projects when she’s done on Facebook. . I’m happy for her. She’s getting more done than me these days. Nice to be young….


----------



## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Karri_B 
looks great. good luck on future projects.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Karri_B said:


> You know...WNT...the only thing remaining to be seen now is.....
> 
> 
> What you thought of the finished product with the mosaic?
> ...


I apologize! I looked but didn't comment. I actually thought they were two different designs at first glance, but then I saw that the bottom one was illuminated. If mosaic is anything like leaded/stained glass, which I've a little of, it's a whole bunch of detailed work! So, you get my highest compliments on design, on subject, and creativity.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Karri_B said:


> Hello, I am building a frame for a mirror that will have an inlay. I think cutting and routing out 1 long strip, then cutting my 45’s x4 would be the best way to do this…I have a question about the type of jig I need to make sure everything is uniform.…I want to mention that I have a very limited set up and like no budget for the stuff most woodworkers consider basic, like a router table for instance, so please keep that in mind.
> I’ve included a sketch to better explain. I know I could clamp or screw down some 2x4’s to use as a guide for the lips of the inlay, but I was wanting something not as temporary and a little more accurate….I have no idea what the best way to cut the inset for the mirror. Oh…I’m using 3/4” I believe it’s birch? plywood..


Your sketch (edited out) shows mitered corners which I think you gave up on later.
I came across this simple sled I made to make miters on my table saw from many years ago.
I can't recall exactly how I made it now, though? I do know it has the two runners on the base to slide in both miter slots on either side of the blade.
I can also see the top layer is one piece, with a 90 degree cutout cut out located at 45 degrees to the front edge.
It's quite possible I used that 45 degree draftsman's triangle to align it to the blade, but I can't recall.
I see also that the kerf was too wide for this thin kerf blade so it was filled in and the kerf was recut.
You should be able to make this with those directions and from this photo for your next mitered frame project:


----------

