# Saw Mill



## Gerald

My son and I are thinking of purchasing a small mill for our personal use and maybe a few small side jobs. 
I know that if I figure it out I could purchase a lot of board feet of lumber for the price of the mill. But my son is young (early 20's) and ambitious and this would be some great father/son time working together. Which is priceless.
Anyone have any experience with the following mills?
http://www.crosswoodstimberproducts.com/
We have a way to handle the timber. Truck/trailer, skid loader etc.
Just need a saw now.

Any advise on other mills that are liked or disliked would be appreciated also.

Thanks,
Gerald


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## Daren

Are you looking at the one that sits on the ground (cheapest one, model #0) or the next one with the trailer package ? The cheap one compared to other makers you are not getting much for your money IMO, it's for only sawing small logs (20" x 8'). There are a dozen other makers within $500 or so more you get _alot_ more mill...Now the second one on the trailer package Model #1 doesn't look like a bad deal to me really. 28" logs 16' long. I know nothing about the company and usually take that into account, you know the major brands have been making them for decades now. Maybe this guy knows what he is doing and has built an as good/better mill I don't know. I would ask to see one run though, that goes for any mill a guy plans on buying even from the big names. I would not rule out Model #1, looks priced right to me and he is sorta local to you right ?


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## Gerald

Daren- Thanks for the response. 
Yes he is kinda local (6 hours) from my house. I do want a portable mill. Just because I think it opens up other opportunities. (maybe?)
I am also considering Woodmizer they (factory) is only 1-1/2 hours from home. They are a little more pricey but maybe a better saw? Parts availability is also a consideration. 
You mentioned other manufactures within 500 bucks and more saw. Who are you refering to? I have also looked at the Hud-son. They have a dealer about 2 hours from me. Looking at their web-site their equipment looks to be built on the light side. I have not put my eyes directly on one though. 
I am in the research mode right now. With the economy running a little slow Maybe one of the big names will run some good deals.
Who knows?
Who's saw do you use? 
Thanks,
Gerald


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## Daren

I run a http://www.taschmid.com/ "Economizer" with a 13 HP Honda on a homemade saw deck. It will saw a 36" log and the length I guess is unlimited, just have to built more track Parts was one of my concerns too starting out, I didn't want to have to go to the manufacturer for them. T A Schmid all the parts that would ever need replaced can be bought at the hardware store off the shelf...but knowing what I know now it would not have made much difference I guess. I bought the mill in 2004 and so far have replaced the starter rope ($4, bought enough next door at the lawn mower shop to make 2 in case it ever breaks again) It is just a well built machine, I sure have not taken it easy on it, I have beaten the dickens out of it and it still cuts as true as day one.

When I said $500 or so for a better saw I meant most of them, Hudson-WoodMizer-Norwood...I just did not like the base model you linked.

Also knowing what I know now I would have no hesitation to buy a used manual mill (just not that much to go wrong with them) Here are some bigger manuals, and a little more spendy maybe, but a place to look at the different kinds out there. http://www.sawmillexchange.com/band.htm


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## dirtclod

I'm not familiar with the crosswood sawmill. The capacities listed on their website seem to be large for the engines proposed. I would have to have a 13hp min. for a 30" log/20+hp would be better.

I run a Norwood and can give you some skinny on it if you find interest.

Sticking with name brands has its plusses. But if you're handy around the shop most manual sawmills can be fixed with parts you make or from other sources. 

Here's a sawmill manufacturer nearby in Zanesville: http://americanbandsawcompany.com/bandsaw_mills.htm

Here's another sawmill manufacturer not far away in Kentucky: http://www.timbermule.com/

May be worth some road trips to the nearby manufacturers to see their products in operation.


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## jeffreythree

Don't forget used. A good place to start is here: http://sawmillexchange.com/ . There is a TA Schmid in PA on there with a trailer package and a Simplicity for only $3500. On Craigslist a guy here in Dallas is selling a Woodmizer LT15 with trailer package for $5800 and someone by you has an LT40 for $20k. There are a lot of used mills out there right now.


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## Gerald

Thanks to all for the info. 
I will be checking out the options you all suggested. 
I'll let you know what I come up with. I am not in a big hurry so time is on my side. I can do more looking around.
Thanks again
Gerald


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## TexasTimbers

I would look at used also. You can often pick up a used model with light hydraulics for not much more than a large new manual mill. 


While people either love or hate woodmizer, one thing I can testify to is their customer service. I have a used one, and they treat me the same as if I had bought it new. One day not long after I bought my mill, I recieved thick manilla envelope in the mail from WM. It was titled something like "Pre-Owned Woodmizer Welcome Package.". It was both a sincere welcome to the WM Family" and a sales tool for them for upgrades, parts, service packages etc. but I don't have a problem with that. I have never gotten a single unsolicited phone call or email from them. 

Mine has enough electronics that when something goes wrong - which ain't often - I pick up the phone, dial the 800# printed on the mill, and give my customer number (they assigned). They can usually tell me what is wrong before I am done giving the sypmtoms. If there is a work-around to get it up and running until the part arrives they tell you that too. They have customer service down to a science. They have the whole history of the mill in front of them when you call. 

Woodmizer is a company I suggest when someone is wanting to get into milling as a full time business. When I asked why they gave such great free phone tech service to someone who buys a used mill the tech said "If it has our name on it, we service it. Period." I think their philosophy is that when it comes time to upgrade to a new one, chances are you aren't going to buy elsewhere and risk less. 

Having given WM a free glowing advert (hey they have treated me very well I owe it to them) I must say that since you are not going into it with full time goals, most of the major mill manufacturers out there are going to bend over backward to give you good service. I don't normally name a brand to stay away from but I have to say, although Timberking may be a good quality mill, they have for years focused their advertising campaign on slamming Woodmizer. I don't respect anyone who has to rely on critising someone else to make themselves look good. If their product cannot stand on its own merits, get out of business. They spin the fact that WM has the innovative *pateneted* monorail system as a bigtime weakness. Their favorite way is to say "Monorail systems can wobble" coupled with a drawing of a WM saw head wobbling like crazy. It makes you wonder how literally billions of BF that have been accurately cut by WM machines could have been done by those awfully-designed machines!!! 

I didn't mean to get all wired up this morning but I get a little steamed when i think about that kind of advertising who have to put others down to build themsleves up. Re" the sawmillexchange.com it can be a good source but IMO those machines are generally over-priced. Watch your local shoppers, CL, and word of mouth. Word of mouth will be more effective tjan you can imagine, but you have to talk to several individuals everyday just in passing. Especially people you thnk have no idea what a sawmill even is. You will be shocked at how effective networking is.





Gerald said:


> . . . I am not in a big hurry so time is on my side . . .


This is your biggest asset right now IMO. Keep that attitude and you shouldn't make a decision you will regret.


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## Gerald

Texas Timbers- Thanks for the information. 
I am truely focused on quality service.
My real day job is Service Department Manager. We build industrial air heaters and oxidizers. They range from the smallest of one million BTU's to one hundred million BTU's. I like to tell people we like to make big fire.
You can check us out for fun if you like. WWW.StelterBrinck.com
Sorry I had to digress. 
I do appreciate the info and I do agree that slamming someone else is not good business. 

Thanks,
Gerald


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## jdixon

TexasTimbers said:


> When I asked why they gave such great free phone tech service to someone who buys a used mill the tech said "If it has our name on it, we service it. Period."


Wow, what a concept! I love that attitude!

John


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## [email protected]

Gerald,
I have been looking for a sawmill for awhile. I came accross a sawmill at a logging convention. It is called Boardwalk Band sawmills.
They are made by the Amish in Emden, Missouri. They don't have a web site because they are Amish. There # is 573-633-2135. They will send you info. For around $7300 you will get a sawmill with a 24 hp Honda engine. This includes trailer package. Cutting capacity is 40" x 16'6" long. It is a manual mill. I have seen it cut 20" logs like butter.
I was able to use it at the convention. It is very easy. When my work picks up I plan on purchasing one. Good luck, Paul


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## TexasTimbers

40"!? That makes it the widest cutting production band mill that I know of outside the industrial realm. I'd love to see a video of that thing sawing a log that big.


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## [email protected]

*To see a review of the EZ Boardwalk Sawmill. Click on EZ Boardwalk*
*below. This is an older review, but very good. They have changed the position that the blade runs. It now sets at an angle on the tracks, (one side in front of the other). This makes the blade almost pull itself through the log. It also now cuts a 40" log.*





*[PDF]* 
*EZ Boardwalk*

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
very well. We've sawn some logs as big as it will hold, up to 36 inches. 4. • *Sawmill* & Woodlot by Dave Boyt. *SAWMILL* REVIEW. *EZ Boardwalk* *...*
*sawmill*mag.com/reviews/8/*EZ*+*Boardwalk* - Similar


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## TexasTimbers

I couldn't download the file.


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## [email protected]

If you have trouble with the link, go to WWW.sawmillmag.com . Then go to reviews and to the 3rd page of reviews. EZ Boardwalk is on that page.


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## Gerald

Woodman58-
Thanks for the info. I certainly will check it out. 

Gerald


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## Fil-Dill

*Saw mill*

Gerald my son and I are working on the same idea. I live in central MO and have studied the EZ boardwalk mill. I have seen it in action at a local show and met with Mr. Zimmerman. The mill is all manual and very well built. Also he came out with a boardwalk Jr. that I am now looking into. It has been on the market for about 6months to a yr. It has a 30" log capacity by 12' on a removable trailer package for $4000. It has a 13 hp Honda and runs very well. Call the number and he is more than interesting to talk to. He also is traveling to several states to show the mills this fall and may be in your area. Good luck.


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## TexasTimbers

I don't like the idea of running those small gas engines through such wide logs. My first mill was a 23 HP Briggs which was a dream really, but I wouldn't want to use it to run through 30" logs much less 40, unless I only milled on occasion. 

I am not a production mill i.e. I don't run my mill everyday for 6 to 12 hours a day. I might do that for a few days in a row and then I am shut down for a week or two processing what I just milled. I run a 42 HP diesel and can't imagine something less if I was a high production mil. 

A 13 HP gas engine is not going to last under heavy, frequent use IMO. It will be s - l - o -w going. If you're milling logs up to 30" regularly then you need more horses under the hood or you're going to get really frustrated. Just know the limitations going in, that's my point.


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## sdefoe

If you haven't already purchased, you should research the Lucas Mill. Various prices and power. I purchased the smallest one they had about 3 years ago. I also purchased the slabber. The first 3 trees paid for it (9k+) At that price I can cut a 54" by 15' long log. Largest I have cut so far is a 48" dia. cedar and a 40" walnut. In my opinion, much more machine for the price than any of the bandsaw mills. Easier to store, setup, and use as well. Just my .02. Steve Defoe


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## TexasTimbers

Those are good points Steve. I've lusted for a swing mill for years. Like all mills they have strengths and weaknesses, but I think a band mill *and* a swing mill with the slabber, that's the way to go. :icon_cheesygrin:


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## Gerald

I originally created this topic because my son and I were planning on getting a small mill and I had a few questions. That has not materialized yet but maybe in the future. I also think that my son's concept of a small mill compared to mine is totally different. 
The issue at hand now is my son has brought home from work (works for the county) a few very large maple logs (38" to 42" dia. --6 ft to 8 ft long) and he tells me there are more to come. They are large enough that the equipment I have is unable to handle them. My guess is they are 3-4000 pounds each but thats just a guess. I would like to get these to a mill to be sawed. If I quarter or half these logs am I screwing them up? or Do I try and cut some kind if cant to lighten them up? (Chainsaw)
This maybe not the most effcient way of max. the yield but I could handle them better. The next question is how long can I let them sit before they start to rot? These were fresh cut yesterday. I don't know what type of maple they are?
Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gerald


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## TexasTimbers

You're pretty close on the weight. Closer to 3000 if Big leaf and closer yo 4000 if Sugar. 



Gerald said:


> If I quarter or half these logs am I screwing them up?


Maybe not screwing them up, but certainly not getting the wide stock that would bring a premium compared to less than half the width you'd get otherwise.




Gerald said:


> or Do I try and cut some kind if cant to lighten them up? (Chainsaw


This gets my vote if you can get it done, and halving them won't get the widest stock either cause you won't find a band mill that can cut them parallel to half. Though a circle mill could, if you can find one that'll cut it ......




Gerald said:


> The next question is how long can I let them sit before they start to rot?


I don't know cause my Maple can't be compared to your hard Maple and my region is vastly different. I suspect the Maple guys will tell you to get them dried as soon as you can. ???




Gerald said:


> I don't know what type of maple they are?
> Any info would be appreciated.


Pictures man. Pictures. You had to know that was coming. And if they have any spalt I guess you'd know that if you saw it correct?

I'm not usually greedy - I mean, I have so many great species down here, but I still wish I could stumble across a grove of hard Maple one day. A man can dream . . . . .


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## Gerald

TT thanks for the reply.
Spalting --Didn't really see any on the end cuts looked to be very solid and very clean/white. I'll have to get some pictures posted. 

thanks


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## dirtclod

Gerlad,
Three kinds of maple are native to your area: sugar, red, and silver. All three are very prone to rot. Coat the ends , get them off the ground and under an airy cover until you come up with a plan. They'll do ok through winter, although the white wood will yellow/gray some, but about late April the degrade will accelerate. By August expect to see some light spalting and by the following summer they will either be fully spalted or outright punky. 

Check out the mills available in your area before you touch them with a saw. We had a big Amish circle mill here (closed now) that could take a 40" log. But moving those beast to the mill is a challenge and, even though they can in theory cut them, they didn't like to max their mill becasue those beast are hard to move/position.

Your best option is to find a swing mill to break them down in place so you don't have to move them. But it depends on what you want to make from them. Maybe a swing mill w/slabber attachment would be best as it can make both thinner flitches and thicker flitches/cants that can be finished off on a band mill. You may get lucky and find an operator that has both a swing mill and a band mill that can both break them down in place then move them to the band mill to finish them off with max yield/quality. But don't partially process them and leave cant's too long before finishing them off or you'll get large checks/warp/bow/etc. 

Pictures would be welcome. But it can be hard to tell sugar and red maple apart at this time of year. Get some end grain and bark shots. Twig/bud and leaf shots would also be helpful.


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## Daren

Your question about how long they will lay this time of year dirtclod answered, you have all winter. Here is one way to mill logs in the size range you are talking about http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f26/working-logs-too-big-mill-9592/


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## Gerald

Dirtclod, 
Thanks for the help. 
I'll let you know what I find/figure out. I'll have to look around. All I ever see around my area is band mills. But I never have looked for anything else so who knows?


Daren- 
I looked at your link to sawing large logs. Did you free hand rip saw that log or did you have some type of fixture to keep the cut fairly even? Also once I figure this out and see how it goes I will need to purchase your kiln plans. One step at a time though. I have to many irons in the fire already. 
I am figuring I could get these logs sawed and store them inside for awhile. (I have a pole barn) 
Then at a later date finish them off in a kiln if necessary. 
Any concerns with that plan?

Last night my son was over hooking up the gooseneck to his truck. My guess is I have more "logs" heading my way.
Not complaining, it's all good. 
He is going to be redoing a house and I think he is looking for some custom built kitchen cabinets etc. 

Thanks again for the help.
Gerald


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## Daren

I freehand rip big logs. But if a guy is not comfortable he can get a straight cut they make an attachment that just clamps on your bar and rides down a 2x4 you fasten to the log. One is called the Beammachine, I see others on ebay too $25-$30. I have never used one but they look like they would work to me.

There is no problem at all with air drying first before you kiln dry. As long as you know what you are doing air drying, especially maple it is prone to sticker stain. We have links to air dry info here in a reference thread. I will just copy it here in case you need to do some reading on it.


Daren said:


> 3 links from a discussion in the "forestry and milling" section. dirtclod has a couple good ones http://www.chilternsaonb.org/downloads/publications/Air_Drying_of_Timber.pdf
> 
> http://nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/rp/rp_nc228.pdf
> 
> I had one bookmarked too. Between these 3 I reckon there is about all you need to know on the subject :smile:
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf


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## Gerald

Daren,

I will look into a Beam Machine or something like it. Not sure I could keep freehand the two cuts straight enough to make an easy split.

Thanks for the info on drying also.
Let you know how things work out.

Gerald


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## sdefoe

Big logs are no problem for the Lucas. I purchased the smallest one they had 3 years ago. (13 horse motor, cuts a 6.25 x 6.25 cant) I purchased the slabber with it. (At my wife's insistence!) I have cut 48" wide slabs from cedar, sycamore and walnut with no problems. Handling the logs was no problem because I was able to cut the logs near where they fell. (Rolled the cedar and the walnut under the saw.) The sycamore was for a city near me which wanted to do something with the trees they had cut to clear room for a library. The city hauled them to the landfill and laid them out like cigars on flat ground.) They were big (30"-48" diameter) and very heavy. Easily the heaviest I have cut so far.

Also, I am not a logs to lumber pro. I am a hobby woodworker who saw an opportunity to pick up wood for less expense. The wood I have cut has paid for the saw and all accessories about four times over. It takes work, but I am now have several thousand dollars worth of beautiful wood, cut to my own specs. I have assisted the City to utilize the wood cut from their trees.

If you want more info, I am an infrequent poster to this site, but will watch more closely. Steve


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## Daren

Hi Steve. Glad to have a guy with a swing mill aboard. I have always wanted one myself, may have one soon. Yep they are the berries on the big logs that's for sure. :thumbsup:


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## Gerald

Looks like I am finally going to get these large (42" dia) maple logs milled. Finally got them cut into a size that will fit the mill per Darens instructions. They are loaded on the trailer to go to the mill later today. One of the logs looks pretty clear on the ends The other log looks to be spalting. 
Anyway not sure when I will get them back but I will have to dry them. Earlier in this thread there is some talk about air drying etc. Now I have two choices. I can stack them in my metal sided pole barn or stack them outside and cover. Any recommendations?
This is my first attempt at drying so any info is helpful. I have been a woodworker for years but never this early in the process. :no:
Always been the fellow who was buying lumber from you sawyers.
Thanks,
Gerald


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## Daren

From 4 posts before yours, about everything you will ever need to know about air drying:



Daren said:


> 3 links from a discussion in the "forestry and milling" section. dirtclod has a couple good ones http://www.chilternsaonb.org/downloads/publications/Air_Drying_of_Timber.pdf
> http://nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/rp/rp_nc228.pdf
> 
> I had one bookmarked too. Between these 3 I reckon there is about all you need to know on the subject :smile:
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf


If you have space in the barn, that would be my first choice.


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## Gerald

Thanks Daren,
After I re-read my last post I didn't do a very good job asking my question. What I was really trying to ask is because of spalting would it be better one way or the other. I read thru the info you posted eailier about air drying awhile back and it may be in there about drying spalted stuff but I don't remember reading anything about it but I may have missed it also??? Thanks for the feed back.


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## Daren

Air drying spalted is no different. You may notice mold on your stickers at first, but if you have decent air flow the wood will get below 20% and the spalt die off pretty quick.


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## johnep

As someone who loves to read about milling, could I ask what may seem to be a stupid question;

What exactly are these very wide boards used for? Tables, panelling?
johnep


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## dirtclod

johnep said:


> What exactly are these very wide boards used for? Tables, panelling?
> johnep


I've never seen them used for paneling - they move too much and a little cup/twist/bow would stand out. But maybe a floating panel design could compensate?

Yes on tables. They're also used for counter and bar tops and sometimes benches.


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## sdefoe

Regarding drying I want to add two thoughts:
1. Much about drying depends on what your humidity to temperature range is. I have dried cedar in the Cascade Mountains 15 miles from the top of our highest mountain pass in Washington. And I have dried from the same tree in the desert of Souteast Washington. There is a significant difference in drying time.

2. Stacking correctly and applying enough weight on the stack is essential. I have dried cedar, black walnut and sycamore in various sizes ranging from 2x6 inches to 48 inch wide boards. Cedar dries straight, but you must coat the ends to prevent splitting. I lost a couple of fine boards that split almost in two when they were missed for coating the ends. Sycamore is nearly impossible to keep straight in wide boards. Walnut is remarkably stable, even in wide boards. But don't let your stack get out of level. If the boards bend/bow, you won't get them straight. Also, walnut appears to dry slow. I had some nice 4x4 pieces that sat out for five months in 90 to 100+ temperatures for more than eight weeks of that time. I didn't test the moisture and the planer/table saw work did not reveal much by way of moisture. However, when I planed the pieces, I set them on my cast iron table saw top overnight. When I arrived at the shop early the next morning, the table top had already rusted and stained. (I got it clean, but not without considerable elbow grease!)


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## Gerald

I originally created this thread because I had some interest in getting a sawmill for my personal use and maybe an extra buck or two. Then my son brought home a couple of 40"+ dia. maple logs. 
Now I was focused on getting these logs milled not on getting a mill.
I finally was able to get these maple logs milled last weekend. 
The sawyer did a nice job and I got 500+ bd. ft of some clear and spalted maple boards. Ranging from 8" wide to some over 24" wide.
My son and I helped the sawyer with stacking the cut lumber. But we didn't have to do a whole lot of work. :no: 
We hit one nail  cost me $30. Including the blade cost he charged me $170.00. 
Suddenly I don't think I want a mill anymore. 
I will just stay focused on building furniture and let my new friend do all my milling.
I have it all stacked and stickered per all the info Daren and others have shared. 
I want to thank everyone who has chimed in on this thread, answered my questions and shared their experience. I haven't had a chance to get a few pictures yet. I'll try over the weekend and post soon.

Gerald


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## Julian the woodnut

Sounds like you have yourself a bunch of lumber now! Great price too!


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## Gerald

Yep, Lots of lumber.
The price was very good. That's why I have decided to put a hold on the sawmill. If I can get myself set up to dry lumber I am better off letting someone else mill it for me. Also after watching the sawyer mill my lumber I really got an appreciation of his experience and his equipment. 

Thanks,
Gerald


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## slipshod

I have a Simplicity mill with and extra length of track. Gives me the ability to cut 34' lumber. The only thing I have changed since I owned is to electrify the up and down.

The best features of my saw is everything that wears out I can get at a hardware store. If I were looking for production it would not be my choice. With a helper I can put together a heck of a pile of boards.

I use my John Deere loader with a four way bucket to put the logs on the saw. It is powered by a Honda 13 H. P. when that wears out I will go bigger, maybe 24 H.P. or so, but it works for me.

I saw yard tree a lot. Sure have found some odd stuff over the years to blow up a blade on. New blades are $21.00 and I do not sharpen myself. I have a guy that does them for $5.00 Worth it for me.


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## Gerald

I started this thread awhile ago because my son and I thought we wanted a mill. Then we decided to take some logs to a local sawyer. Logs were milled, price was right and my son and I helped the sawyer mill the logs and we both enjoyed the work. So I figured we could just haul the logs, get them milled and everything would be good. I didn't count on one thing. I just couldn't stop reading and investigating sawmills. I guess I caught some type of sawmill virus or something. Hauling and having someone else do the milling just didn't seem to cure the virus. Anyway I tell you all this because I ordered a manual mill yesterday. :thumbsup: I purchased an EZ Boardwalk JR model. I don't have exact delivery yet but will let you know how things go.

Thanks,
Gerald


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## TexasTimbers

:clap:

We like more sawyers. Congrats. I think there are a couple of other EZB owners here they must make a great mill. Of course you got to post pics when get it set up and start milling.


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## Daren

Gerald said:


> I guess I caught some type of sawmill virus or something.


There is such a thing :yes: Some people are immune...the rest once they catch it there is no cure. Congrats, you are incurable


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## junkhound

"I guess I caught some type of sawmill virus or something."

Sounds like you definately have it. Your own sawmill is the only "medication" 

Junkhound


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## Mizer

Congratulations, it is a great feeling to saw that first log.


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## Gerald

I have been collecting logs the last few months.
I have last count about 50 logs
Ranging from 12" to 36". 
Cherry, ash, sycamore and locust. I have a few maples on the radar. Hope to get lucky with those also. :thumbsup:


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## Gerald

Sawmill (EZ Boardwalk JR) arrived last Friday evening. I spent Saturday Morning setting it up. 

I have to digress a moment....

When they sold my Grandparents farm for development. They tore down the barn. I was able to save four white oak hand hewn beams from the landfill. I have been storing them for 24 years. Always wanted to have them milled and make some furniture out of them. So guess what the first thing to hit the bed of my new mill was. 
Yep, white oak beam. Milled all four of them. The new mill worked very smooth and without a hitch. 
I did hit one nail, :thumbdown: . Good thing I ordered extra blades.
After that I milled a small cherry (18") and then an ash. 

A few observations about the mill.

Honda engine (13hp) started w/one pull. Very quiet and ran very smooth.

The track or bed is built very rugged. The bed is built out of structual 4" channel (5lb/ft) and has a 3/4" round bar welded to the top for the carriage to ride on. This helps reduce the amount of friction. So thus the carriage rolls very smoothly and requires little effort to run the blade thru the log. Leveling the bed is a little extra effort. Leveling jacks would be a nice feature. Maybe the mfg. could make them an option ?

The carriage raise/lower works smooth and easy. Their is a torsion spring on the ass'y to assist with the carriage weight.

Log dogs- I am still a little unsure if I like these???? They work fine but can be alittle cumbersome. So the jury is out on these yet. Also I think I would like an addtional one for shorter logs. The saw came with 2 standard. If I decide I like these I'll order/build another one.

As far as the angled head- I will admitt that the blade does have a slight pulling effect on the carriage. Not enough keep me from pushing the carriage but you can feel some self feeding. As soon as I hit that nail I could really tell the difference. 

Blade tensioning is acomplished by adjusting a long Tee bolt (7/8"dia. ???) Seems to work well.

It does have a safety to help prevent from running the blade into a log dog. I didn't have any problems yesterday. But I can see where this will save me sooner or later.:yes:

There is a few places I would like to have seen wear strips but with this saw being several $$ less than the more popular models... I can either add some or just run it and repair when neccessary. I am sure it will last many trouble free years. 

I purchased the trailer package ($400). I figured it would be nice to have and I couldn't build it much cheaper. Must tow well because the guy who delivered it towed it behind his mini van from Missouri to Ohio.

After 1/2 day use I am happy. :thumbsup: 
More time on the machine will tell.

I have some pictures but not sure how to attach them. 

Any help here would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gerald


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## Kirk Allen

TexasTimbers said:


> 40"!? That makes it the widest cutting production band mill that I know of outside the industrial realm. I'd love to see a video of that thing sawing a log that big.


I dont think he was implying it would make a 40" wide cut. Its not much different than the Woodmizer you have that has a 36" log capacity, but we both know it wont cut 36" wide. 

Lots of small mills have tall systems that let them get bigger logs but I dont know of any relate that capacity to width of cut.


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## TexasTimbers

Kirk Allen said:


> I dont think he was implying it would make a 40" wide cut. Its not much different than the Woodmizer you have that has a 36" log capacity, but we both know it wont cut 36" wide.



Yeah that's exactly how I understood it too. I don't know it for a fact, but I'm under the impression most manufacturers advertise a max log capacity of 36" - so when I saw 40" I thought that would be pretty impressive especially for a manual mill. 

I do know of a band mill that makes a 60"(?) cut but it's a one-off unit. You may be aware of it as well if you're familiar with Steve Cross in Georgia. If you ever get a chance to talk to him I'd encourage you to do so. He rubs some folks the wrong way, but my opinion is that he's a genuine good guy, and defintiely an encyclopedia of knowledge. 

If you do ever talk to him, just know going in he's not going to have many nice things to say about WM. He doesn't slam them personally or anything I don't mean that but he'd not very impressed with their mills. We can disagree with him there but if you ever decide to build a wide band mill for slabbing, he has the experience and technology to do it. 

Well, here's a video where you can see his conrtraption.


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## djg

Nice video. Man, the sound of that blade singing takes me back. Looks like that blade has been hammered out a few times too.


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## TexasTimbers

A PM today alerted me I posted the wrong video here, and he is correct. I thougth this was the band mill video but it's circle sawing. Not going to replace it though I'll start with a new thread if I have to. This is a slice of American sawyer history that should be seen by all woodworkers. I'm not used to watching his videos. I'm used to trying to get off the phone after we start talking. No complaints. :no:


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## Gerald

Milling an ash log with the EZB.
thanks,
Gerald


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## Gerald

Few more pictures....
Thanks,
Gerald


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## Gerald

Milled some Maple. 
The first picture I ran thru the planer.
The second picture is still rough cut with alittle mineral spirits to try and show the color.
Both boards are about 6 ft. long but from different logs


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## Fil-Dill

Gerald, how well did the 13 HP engine hang in there on a 19" wide cut?


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## Gerald

Just fine. Had a good sharp blade and ran the throttle about 3/4.
Has been good so far. I think it is a decently built little mill.

Have you used yours much yet?


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## TexasTimbers

Nice lumber. You're hooked now.


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## Gerald

TexasTimbers said:


> Nice lumber. You're hooked now.


Without a doubt.....:thumbsup:

I do have a question..In the first picture of the Maple board. If you look close you can see in every dark streak their is a pin hole. I am assuming this pin hole is caused by some type of bug?
But I really don't know. Anybody know what created these pin holes?


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## TexasTimbers

Gerald said:


> . . . Anybody know what created these pin holes?


Borers. Any kind of borer attack will cause the tree to mount a defensive response and that is what cause the streaks. Stress in general will do it, but the source of the stress is almost always critter infestation.

I'm referring to Ambrosia Maple and Flame Box Elder only. Other trees respond also just in different ways.


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## Fil-Dill

I haven't used mine much at all. I am in the process of building a walnut stairway into our basement, and putting leveling feet on the mill first, which is what Mr. Zimmerman uses on the larger mill.


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## Gerald

Thanks TT,
I was guessing that it was some type of critter.


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## Daren

Gerald said:


> ran the throttle about 3/4.


Looks good. You are going to have a lot of fun and make a lot of nice lumber with that mill :thumbsup:

I quoted you on the throttle thing. I always run mine full trottle, even on softwood and narrow lumber. They have a built in governor, so even at "full throttle" you are not running at high enough rpms to ever harm the engine now or long term (mine has ran full throttle for 6+ years). Not telling you what to do, just saying. It makes smoother lumber at higher blade speed, even if you are not worried about cutting fast.


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## Gerald

Thanks Daren. I did not know that about running full throttle.

Running that little mill.... I am having a blast. It is like Christmas everytime I open up a log. 

Funny how things already have gone. I have only told a few friends that I purchased a mill. I already have been offered two free ash trees (approx.20") from my dentist. He heard thru the grapevine about my mill. He is having them removed by a tree service. Told me if I want the logs he would tell the service to cut them in the lengths I want. Going to go take a look next day or so.


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## Daren

Gerald said:


> Running that little mill.... It is like Christmas everytime I open up a log.
> 
> .


:yes:








.


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## Kirk Allen

Gerald said:


> Without a doubt.....:thumbsup:
> 
> I do have a question..In the first picture of the Maple board. If you look close you can see in every dark streak their is a pin hole. I am assuming this pin hole is caused by some type of bug?
> But I really don't know. Anybody know what created these pin holes?


 
To answer your questions specificaly, its the Ambrosia Beatle that caused those holes. They are common for soft maple and that is where the term Ambroshia Maple comes from. Other beatles DO NOT cuase the color streaks like the Ambroshia beatle in the maple. The ambrosia beetle excavates a tunnel in which it releases spores of its fungal symbiont. That is what causes the colors your seeing in the areas of the holes not the tree establishing a defensive resposne. If it was a defense created response it would be present from other borers and its not. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosia_beetle


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## Gerald

Thank you Kirk for more info.

I did some investigating based on your response.
Found this:

Ambrosia maple comes from regular soft maple and Hard Maple trees that have been infested by the ambrosia beetle. The small beetle bores a network of tunnels and short galleries called cradles. A fungus is responsible for the blue, gray and brown streaks and decorative patch work that accompany each tunnel and adjacent wood. The streaks and patch work add a unique look to this hardwood without affecting its structural integrity. This wood is mostly found in the central part of Eastern United States. 
The tunnels made from the beetles are extremely small. The infestation of the ambrosia beetle is terminated during the kiln drying process and will not start again in dry wood as the beetle needs somewhat wet wood to survive. Ambrosia beetles also infest other species such as birch, Aspen and Beech.


So the second question is:
The second picture has red , blue/green coloring running thru the whole board. (It is hard to see in the picture)
I thought this was early signs of spalting? But I was just guessing. What do you guys think? 
Thanks,
Gerald


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## Kirk Allen

*Gerald*

Most often the blue tint is found in the Hard Maple. Some folks believe that the higher sugar content contributes to that but Im not sure. The red tint is commonly found in both soft and hard maple. 

Its definatly not spalt in the photos you posted. Spalt is evident by distinctive black lines.


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## TexasTimbers

That's interesting to know about the Ambrosia Maple. Since any borer will cause the Boxelder tree to give a nonspecific host response, not just the "box elder bug" I "assumed" (I ought to know better by now) that the other maples would have the same kind of response. 

It was also once believed that the red stain in negundo was caused by a fungus carried by the box elder bug, but this has long been known to be in error. But FBE is a different animal for sure. 


Edit: No need for the links, I Googled the terms "fungal symbiont" and "Ambrosia Beetle" and came up with plenty to read. My apologies Gerald. I wasn't trying to mislead you. It's pretty fascinating to think the trees could react so differently and still be in the same family. What little I've had time to read, I've seen the "...but this is not known for certain . . . " thrown in here and there. Pretty common in white papers though. I guess until until something comes along to disprove it . . . . . 

I'll give you an example. Until about 6 weeks ago I wouldv'e argued that barbed wire doesn't cause red stain in FBE, because I'd seen plenty of barbed wire in FBE trees and never once had I seen any red stain as a result of the wire. I can't make that argument any longer because I did run across a tree with barbed wire in it that certainly did have red coloration clearly only around where the wire went through the wood. Live and learn.


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## Kirk Allen

TexasTimbers said:


> That's interesting to know about the Ambrosia Maple. Since any borer will cause the Boxelder tree to give a nonspecific host response, I just "assumed" (I ought to know better by now) that the other maples would have the same kind of response.
> 
> It was also once believed that the red stain in negundo was caused by a fungus carried by the Ambrosia beetle, but this has long been known to be in error. But FBE is a different animal for sure. Could you post the link again it didn't work - I'd like to read up on Ambrosia Maple we don't see it down here.
> 
> 
> Gerald where did you find your research? I need to read it too.


The different response is related to the beatles discharge (poop) from eating its way through. Different sugar levels cause different patterns and appearances. The "specifc" streaks I was mentioning are specific to the Ambrosia beatle in the common Sivler Maple. The streaking he posted is not found to be the same in Hard Maple infested with the same beatle. Each species presents different patterns, colors etc. 

The amazing color patterns your getting in Box Elder may come from the ambrosia beatle or some other but what is causing the colors is the reaction of the fluids in the tree with the commonly acidic waist product the borer produces.


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## Kirk Allen

One of many sources saying the same thing. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosia_beetlehttp://www.woodworkingtalk.com/Ambr...s including the closely related bark beetles.


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## Gerald

TT no appology neccessary........Their is a lot of good info being relayed. This is really good stuff.....
Thanks


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## TexasTimbers

You've probably seen this white paper before, and the reason I link to it is because it's the most extensive research ever done on FBE that I've been able to find. If you or anyone else who might come along later is aware of more recent research please let me know, I am always hoping for a new research paper to come out. I don't agree with every one of their conclusions, but then again, they conducted their studies in a Minnesota forest and my trees live under completely different conditions. 

I don't know the why or how on a cellular level because I don't have the formal training in those areas like they do, but FBE in the stand where I harvest does not stain due only to the borer excrement, and I'm certain about this. Their research supports the anecdotal evidence I've seen in the field. I'm not saying the bugs leavings cannot cause the stain, I have no firsthand evidence to say that it can't. I'm just saying I have seen much evidence to support most of what the researchers have found in the link below. At one time, it was thought that only the Boxelder Bug could cause the red stain in FBE. 

The link is a long read, so I'll highlight some of their conclusions and statements for those that don't want to read it all. The majority of their findings support my own experience with these trees. 

_Abstract
Fusarium reticulatum (F. negundi) has been suggested as the cause of red stain in boxelder (Acer negundo), but the role of the fungus in producing the pigment has never been confirmed . . . . 

. . . . The stain’s ubiquitous presence in all wounded tissue and the inability of F. solani isolates obtained from boxelder to stain boxelder red in wood block studies indicates that red stain is most likely produced by the tree as a nonspecific host response to wounding.​_


_Introduction
A ubiquitous red stain can be found in the sapwood of living boxelder (Acer negundo L.) throughout the range of the species. . . . . *Pigmentation is localized around branch scars, frost cracks  and wounds caused by insects or animals, such as sapsuckers (Sphyrapicus varius) (3,7).
*_​*


 The ubiquitous presence and the unique discoloration pattern of red stain in boxelder suggest that some other agent may be responsible for the stain. For example, a discoloration pattern similar to that in boxelder occurs in sugar maple (A. saccharum Marsh.) in the absence of fungi as a result of bird pecks, nails driven into trees, and injections with distilled water and copper sulfate (5).  The pattern of staining in boxelder is also similar to the discoloration observed in many other species of deciduous trees (2,15). Therefore, this study was undertaken in an attempt to elucidate the true cause of red stain in boxelder. ​


 Similar host responses in the presence of F. solani have been reported in other tree species. In yellow poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera L.), a dark brown pigment, presumably caused by the oxidization of a phenol, was produced by the tree in wounded cells and in response to F. solani (1). Although the brown pigment did not prohibit F. solani, it did restrict its growth. It is possible that the red stain in boxelder is produced by the tree to restrict growth of invading fungi such as F. solani.  For example, both F. solani and H. tessulatus were unable to colonize red stained boxelder wood chips in laboratory studies.
The results from this study provide evidence that red stain in boxelder is not caused by F. reticulatum as previously recorded in the literature. Instead, the stain appears to be produced by the tree as a non-specific host response. ​*


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## Kirk Allen

My reference was specific to the species presented in the pics and those streaks were in fact caused by the ambrosia beatle. 

As far as box elder, dont know much about it but according to the The University of Kansas, Research entitled "Biological Relationship of Ambrosia Gungi and Beetles- Red Stain of Acer Negundo"

The fungus was isolated from a variety of sources: Abandoned galleries of xyleborus saxeseni, the guts of two unidentified beetle larvae belonging to the Cerambycidae; the walls of the these larval tunnels and adjacent areas; soil near fungus-infected boxelder trees; trees damaged by wind or pruned by utility line companies but not necessarily harboring cerambycid beetles and infected boxelder tree not otherwise damaged. The fungsas appears to be widespread in the eastern part of Kansas 

*Boxelder trees of all ages harbor the fungus without any apparent damage except for red staining.* Older trees appear to have a larger number of fungus colonies and insect tunnels per unit area than younger trees. The fungus thrives especially well in the wood dust excavated and piled up by the ceramycid larvai in their expanding galleries that serve as excellent natural moist chambers supplied with plenty of frass. 

Another study pointed to a damage response as a factor but noted they would also like to learn more about how certain organisms, such as fungi, seem to enhance the production of red stain. 

I spoke with our EIU botanist a while back and he said that in the Baber Woods, a forest plot devoted to Batanist studys for EIU just south of me, it was clear that numerous maples, to include a few Box Elders were natoriuos for hosting frass from beatles that led to dramatic color changes and that those changes were far more pronounced on infected trees than those that were not infected but damaged. That would support studies out of Iowa State University, which is the other study I referenced. 

Regardless of the cause, I hope the colors keep getting more dramatic becuase it only raises the value of the lumber!


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## TexasTimbers

That's good info Kirk & I appreciate you sharing it. I think one thing we can surmise from all of this, is that even the experts can't agree on what they don't know. 


One thing *we* can agree on however, is this:



Kirk Allen said:


> Regardless of the cause, I hope the colors keep getting more dramatic becuase it only raises the value of the lumber!


:thumbsup:


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## trimmer.225

*intro robertf*

I am a new guy from Louisianna. (go SAINTS!). I am a cow hoof trimmer by trade. Economy dictating diversifying my income opportunities. Saw sharpening business coming up for sale. Dad and brothers own 2 mills cutting hrd wood kants, for mats. I have very little knowledge, but willing to learn. Any ideas? thanks in avance Robertf.


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## Gerald

I attached the following pictures to this thread instead of the project showcase because the ambrosia maple used for the counter top is from the lumber I milled in post#55 of this thread. I still need to install hardware etc. 
Also dried using Darens plans for a kiln. 
Just used my phone to take pictures so keep that in mind... 

Thanks 
Gerald


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## cody.sheridan-2008

beautiful work!


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## Fil-Dill

I hope that is in your house. You will never hear the end of it, if the best work doesn't end up at home. Don't ask me how I know. Looks great.


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## Gerald

Thanks for the kind words.



Fil-Dill said:


> I hope that is in your house. You will never hear the end of it, if the best work doesn't end up at home. Don't ask me how I know. Looks great.


No need to explain--I've been their. :laughing:

Fil-Dill--How is the EZ running these days? Doing any milling? I have shedded mine till spring. To much snow right now. Plus as you can see doing inside remodeling work.


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## Faceted rock

Hi, I'm doing sawmill in Russia












[URL="[/URL]
If interested, I can tell you how Instead, I want to get constructive criticism and good advice, as my machines to adapt to market U.S


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## Fil-Dill

It isn't shedded, but is covered for sure. Have been trying to saw on weekends, but weather is terrible. It was -8 deg. yesterday morning when I left for work with about 6-8 inches of snow on the ground. I traded the Jr. model back in with 4.5hrs on the meter and went to the EZ 40. As soon as word got around I had a mill logs started showing up and keep getting bigger and longer. I loved the jr. model and love this one also. It will sure saw lumber. The leveling feet and log turner work great.


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## Gerald

Fil-Dill said:


> I traded the Jr. model back in with 4.5hrs on the meter and went to the EZ 40. As soon as word got around I had a mill logs started showing up and keep getting bigger and longer. I loved the jr. model and love this one also. It will sure saw lumber. The leveling feet and log turner work great.


Ugraded after 4.5 hours. That's fantastic. :thumbsup: 

Glad to hear things are going your way. I haven't worked on getting the word out about my mill yet. Have a few other jobs going on and needed to get them done first. I have milled couple thousand board feet for myself. 
If I get lucky enough to need to upgrade. I will sure give you a shout.
Thanks Gerald


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## Fil-Dill

Mr. Zimmerman did tell me that the Jr. Model outsold the 40 by almost 2-1 in 2010. So it must be a good machine.


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## TexasTimbers

Black Rock,

I like that gang saw design. Did you build it? 







.


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## Faceted rock

Yes, I'm doing different machines for woodworking in 1999 in Russia, I want to create a production machine in U.S. and is now looking for interested people.
If it will be interesting, I'll create a new topic in this section and lay there, my recommendations and the drawings on how to create a machine in the Car garages.


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## Faceted rock

TexasTimbers

I propose to begin with, what specifically interested in the machine for a maximum diameter of the logs, with some engine and a belt width, or diameter of circular saws. Possibility I will be able to draw such a machine.
Well, start a new topic?


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## TexasTimbers

Black rock said:


> Well, start a new topic?


Sure, that might be very interesting to see what develops. 





.


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