# Dust collector: dual or single blower?



## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Hi all. 
This is my first post on your forum.
I have a question for you more experienced people.
I am assembling a homemade gyro air g 700 dust collector.
I had such an idea, I don’t know how justified it is. 
Two 2 hp motors can be connected to the collectors or a 4 hp motor ?
This is of great importance, since these motors must be operated from a 220 volt network.
Maybe someone has experience with two blowers in parallel. 
Two centrifugal turbines were assembled and tested for performance.
















Test 1




Test 2


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## Colosnoball (Oct 16, 2021)

Giorgi said:


> Hi all.
> This is my first post on your forum.
> I have a question for you more experienced people.
> I am assembling a homemade gyro air g 700 dust collector.
> ...


The best dust collection will be with the two 2HP motors. You may have slightly higher maintenance with more motor parts. As to electrical efficiency for the motors, you would need to check all the operating specs for them. The 4HP might be more electrically efficient. It depends on your priorities. I don't have any knowledge of your Gyro Air-G 700 kit.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Colosnoball said:


> The best dust collection will be with the two 2HP motors. You may have slightly higher maintenance with more motor parts. As to electrical efficiency for the motors, you would need to check all the operating specs for them. The 4HP might be more electrically efficient. It depends on your priorities. I don't have any knowledge of your Gyro Air-G 700 kit.


I decided to have two engines because I think only one engine will work when not needed. 

I don’t know if this decision is correct or not, I haven’t seen a twin-engine dust collector anywhere. 

It is also more compact, with two engines. The last option for 1 engine looks like this. It is closer to the original.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

their fan is a push through the filters. 

https://harveyedu.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/G700-Instruction-Manual-1.pdf G-700 unit @ $2800

https://harveyedu.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/G-800-Instruction-Manual.pdf G-800 unit @ @$6500


https://harveyedu.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/G-1000-Instruction-Manual.pdf G-1000 unit @ $9700










the max air flow for each. using different motors in HP all the motors running about 2280 rpm to max 4200 rpm all are three phase motors. 
fan wheel / impeller sizes 12" 12.5" and 14"

For G700 1000 cfm Hp 2 1.5kw 

for G800 1175 cfm Hp 3 2.2 kw

for g1000 1400 cfm Hp 4 3.0 kw

based on the data they have on site, you would need fans that cost fromm $1,800 to $3,500. the motor cost $600 to $700 for TEFC (Totally Enclosed, Fan-Cooled )
also you need a single to three phase VFD / inverter another cost $800 to $1200 depending brand

the intent of this system is to speed up as the output flitters load up.

the key to this is the air is super clean. about 99.3%

another brand may cost less CV1450 Single Phase Baldor 5HP Motor – Single Phase, 5HP, draws 20.8 FLA at 230v – requires 30A breaker on sale for $1800 no listing of sound levels cost more to operate per hour but has more CFM.
this is pull through the cyclone and push in to the filters.

just based on the data and my engineering experience the G700 is not intended to have larger wood chips compared to clear vue systems







floor space about the same. quite 75 db max vs unknown.

I do not belive you make a home system the and cost less.and get the filters to 99.3% cleaning.

good luck this is just my 2cents.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> their fan is a push through the filters.
> 
> https://harveyedu.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/G700-Instruction-Manual-1.pdf G-700 unit @ $2800
> 
> ...


I can't understand what you wrote, how can you help me? I saw it all


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 
if you replicate it you will need fan that can have 12" static capability. theirs is abou 4" suction and 18" discharge static to push through the filial filters. now if use less efficient filters then fan capability at high static will come down.
Clear cyclone filtration uses the two filters in series not in parallel therefore the back static pressure is reduced and greater air flow.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @Giorgi
> if you replicate it you will need fan that can have 12" static capability. theirs is abou 4" suction and 18" discharge static to push through the filial filters. now if use less efficient filters then fan capability at high static will come down.
> Clear cyclone filtration uses the two filters in series not in parallel therefore the back static pressure is reduced and greater air flow.



Is it clear now. 
If I use one blower I can make it 12-3/4" which is the size I have. But if I put two pieces of 10 inches.
I have found that two fans cannot increase airflow, only volume.
I can install the filters in series or place both in the same container because the filtering area will increase. 
Filtration will take place on the surface of the filter, not inside the filter.

Will this be the solution?

I will try to make an 18 inch fan, I don't know if I can ... 🥴


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 
For both companies the air goes in the inside of the filter and blows to the outside.

both Companies use fans size from 12in to 15 in to get the air volume or static pressure they're looking for.
the one your modeling after uses variable air volume fan speed from 2202 approximately 4200 RPM to get the static pressure up push through.

Clear cyclone uses a constant volume fan.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

I don't have a 4200 rpm motor. 
I have 2900 rpm. 
Is it better to have two 10" fan and an tow motor or one 12" fan and twice the power of the motor?


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Both collectors work so well that I really want to finish them.videoTest


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 

From what I can tell in the documentation that's available on the system that your modeling after they are using an inverter / variable frequency drive (VFD) running from 35 Hertz to 75 Hertz using a motor rated for 3400 RPM. using a 230 vac 3 Phase motor.

these numbers were derived from their own table they published publicly.

after reviewing all the motor options and fan options go with a single Speed Motor. most cost-effective downside more noisy may not have the static pressure that their model unit uses.

pushing through your separator will be the most effective as the particulates hit the veins will want to come out. when you draw through the separator they will want to carry on past. the higher the suction the more the particulates will stay suspended.
if you look at their hopper sizes, the estimates 80% large 19% small and 1% going into the filters. 

final filtration will be key how fine do you want the particulate filter out of the Air versus the amount of back pressure the filters create. back pressure equates to horsepower and loss of CFM. (cubic feet per minute)

if you'll notice they use a single fan solution. I believe the two fan solution ultimately will cost more. having a two fan assembly two Motors versus a larger horsepower single fan solution.

I believe you're on a good path to your solution. good luck.








Gyro Air G700 Deep-Dive Filter Change this is a lot of work.

Centrifugal Dust Separator to Upgrade My Cheapo Dust Collector


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @Giorgi
> 
> From what I can tell in the documentation that's available on the system that your modeling after they are using an inverter / variable frequency drive (VFD) running from 35 Hertz to 75 Hertz using a motor rated for 3400 RPM. using a 230 vac 3 Phase motor.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for giving me so much.
As far as I understand, the fan should be at the beginning. 
For some reason, I thought that if sawdust did not get into the fan, then it would be easier for the electric motor to work.
It is better to have one and a powerful motor. 
I have almost everything except for the blower fan that needs to be made. 
I will change the project and move the fan to the beginning. As I indicated in the second option. 
It was this video that prompted me to decide to build it as shown on YouTube. I put together a cyclone that works fine and I was thinking about making it a little more difficult...
It turned out to be more difficult than I thought.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 
it does not look like to many people have tried this for home use. building it them self.
I think the concept is a great one.I think the company should make a smaller one with a single speed fan, one filter.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @Giorgi
> it does not look like to many people have tried this for home use. building it them self.
> I think the concept is a great one.I think the company should make a smaller one with a single speed fan, one filter.


To see what happens, I'll make a 12" fan and keep experimenting. If the result is justified, then I will either make a larger fan, or again a 12-inch one. And I will test the two together.

I've spent a lot of time making cones and manifolds so I can't give up on this project.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Not a dual *blower* system as in question, however there's a *dual turbine* dust collector that gets rave reviews:


https://www.harveywoodworking.com/products/gyro-air-g700-dust-processor


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

woodnthings said:


> There's a dual turbine dust collector that gets rave reviews:
> 
> 
> https://www.harveywoodworking.com/products/gyro-air-g700-dust-processor


I know that it does not have two bowers.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 
have you found a fan with high 1200 CFM or more and will produce high static as the as the outlet to the filter needs to be large 6" to 8"

the test looked good


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

I think some may have missed this link from above. Test centrifugal dust collector. from Giorgi  he is making good progress.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> @Giorgi
> have you found a fan with high 1200 CFM or more and will produce high static as the as the outlet to the filter needs to be large 6" to 8"
> 
> the test looked good



The overall outlet diameter is 7.8 inches.
manifold, all parts match the dimensions of the original manifolds (gyroscope g 700).
Since I am attaching the blower at the beginning, I will have to attach the container box very tightly.
If the blower is installed after the collector, the vacuum itself will close the container tightly enough.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Biotec said:


> I think some may have missed this link from above. Test centrifugal dust collector. from Giorgi  he is making good progress.


In the first post I will lay out all the tests that I have done so far and that I will conduct in the future.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

With two blowers, my concern is "back flow" into the non-operating cyclone.
Will the pressure back feed? ... unless there's a one way valve on each turbine.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

woodnthings said:


> With two blowers, my concern is "back flow" into the non-operating cyclone.
> Will the pressure back feed? ... unless there's a one way valve on each turbine.



I thought about it, but I think that if both blowers are the same power, this should not be, if you look at it primitively. There are ventilation systems that are implemented with more than two fans. I can't figure out the aerodynamics, but as far as I know, if this "reverse flow" occurs, then this is not a problem with the overall result.

At the same time, it was decided that for the time being only one fan would be used to operate the collector.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

The more moving Parts the more complicated it gets.

in normal large exhaust systems we would employ back draft damper, that would close automatically on fan failure for being turned off and not used. since we are moving trash through the system that would jam up the the dampers and not work best to stay with one fan. 
the second problem was running two Motors would be the operating cost. here in Gainesville Florida 18 cents a KW


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

@Biotec 

you are right. 
I will try to run only one fan on this dual manifold. I try both options at the beginning and in the middle of the connection between the collector and filters. 
One thing that worries me is the 2900 rpm of the engine. 
But I've seen a lot of manifolds on engines with that RPM.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

The last version, if the airflow should be at the beginning and not in the middle, I got this look. 
I'm not happy with how it looks.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 
hello all:
I have been traveling for work have not been checking in.

following with what you have, I would take the two final dust filters and put them to the right of the fan assembly








taking the the dust a full 180° turn back then down. like you have on the left

this would make it possible to have dust bin / cart like below.


+
++


I like this cart / frame open for the dust bin





















counter clockwise fan turn to the left










on this model the fan motor is out the back. the 800 & 1000 use this


View attachment 443825





they moved the motor on the 800 unit

















I like the dust bin idea best. the cup / bin on the left i do not like.
I would make the bin with a divider for the two filters. that would keep the pressure more balanced to each filter.
that would make any filter band possible. like a Wynn NANO Filter or other cartridge filters. the larger size more surface the better.

till next time


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

@Biotec 

interesting. 

I tried to be simple. 
I didn’t even think about the 800 and 1000 series.
As you can see, I need to study these models too...
maybe we can even come up with better ones. As for the fan shape, it's so thin, how can I make it?! 
I don't even know what shape the wings are.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

@Biotec 

As it seems at first glance, the G 800 system is completely different, dust collector and inlet collector. Much more difficult than the G700.
But if you figure it out, it works almost like mine in the first version, the blower is in the middle of the system Or they can stand even after filters.
It's very confusing. But if the vacuum principle works, it will be very cool.
***










The dust collector is completely different. I can't follow the principle.

****









I think this is the direction of the sawdust. I could be wrong...


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 

good day

I didn't want to muddy your initial design by too much. I just saw some alternative ideas they're using on the larger machines they are not practical follow due to the way the filters are cleaned with air pressure 115 lb of pressure it does not state in the book how many CFM it was, but it did say that it runs for 30 minutes the blow the filters out clean.

I think the initial gravity drop sawdust in the final filters probably the best choice the least amount of difficulty to build. that is currently following your current design scheme.

If you'll notice on the 800 and the 1000 using two sideways filters or three sideways filters plus another 200 CFM.

most exhaust fans I work with are listed as reverse incline blades. since there is no pictures or reference repair or replace parts for the fan, fan motor only as an assembly. I would think that since we're trying to pass debris through the fan blade itself a forward incline fan blade is what might be required. 











Wood Industry Dust Collector
DIY IMPELLER. Homemade High Power DIY Dust Collector Impeller
Dust collector fans
DIY DUST COLLECTOR IMPELLER

this is just not easy


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

@Biotec

The problem is not complexity. 

The question is how much is possible at home.
In my country, there are not many things that are useful for building a complex structure. 
I agree with you on everything, but the main thing that I can do is.

Everything that touches the dust settles under the influence of gravity.
It's true, I haven't even thought about it yet.
Self-cleaning can be considered in the future.
***
If this version is successful, in my opinion, there will be many more possibilities. 










***
I believe that there should be as little resistance as possible to the air flow, so I try to take into account the movement of air in the structure without excessive bending.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 
I believe running the filter sideways it's not such a great idea in regard of being in a home environment because of the need of the air compressor to blow the filters out after every duty cycle does using a lot of electricity in a commercial shop probably running for other equipment and therefore it's already there. also note that it is and a commercial environment it's running all the time. their cleaning cycle 30 minutes for every Run Cycle how's machine.

another thought is that with the filters is the dust will draw moisture and make it stick to the filters not sure where you are at in the rest of world here where I'm at here in Florida the humidity gets really bad. even my cheap bucket dust separator will sometimes get very stuck together especially if there are different Woods that were involved. the worst being medium density fiberboard (MDF). most of filters I have looked at online here are two to three hundred dollars each. need to protect that investment is best as possible.

I think that is why be 700 versus the 1000 series being in a commercial environment labor cost more to keep the filters clean than electricity to run the air compressor.

I would think after exiting the separation process that the dust is fairly well suspended in the spinning action created by the last of the Venturi. at best guess each pathway is about 300 CFM of the 600 CFM input you want soft radius turns to avoid losing the swirling action.

the up over is 180° worth of turns then down to the filters another 90 degree turns. not sure how to avoid problem and still have an easy clean out of the large Dustbin. 

I think this is why the manufacturer ended up with the Dustbin in the middle of machine to avoid those turns and hard to clean instead.

the initial process was easy. the compromises to make it easy to maintain is what makes it more difficult now.




please note this collaboration has been a very enjoyable process.

Joe in Gainesville, Florida. USA

some other link ideas maybe one

Building a Cyclone (DIY dust collector part 1)
Building a Blower (DIY dust collector part 2) 
Building a cyclone dust collector (part 3 of 3)


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

@Biotec 

Thanks for support. What you gave me, I put together from scratch. And it still works well.









I wish it was a little different, I'm tired of the same. Although this idea turned out to be difficult... 
I think I won't be able to move on until I've done the following tests


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi 
did you leave part of your comment out? (done the following tests)






























come out of the separator with A 45-degree fitting then to a long radius 90 back to a 45-degree fitting across the separator for the short the pipe to a reducing bell fitting 6" to 4"

then to a 6" a 90° turn long radius. this pathway is to reduce static pressure

PVC Long-Turn Street Elbow. that is one end as a hub and the other end has a open end.

the 4" long radius 90 should have two Hubs this will allow for a single joint 45-degree hubs.


the filter either has a 6in or 8 in opening my guess is the one you would buy is 8 in get the greatest amount of surface area. my goal was to reduce the amount of total static going through all the 90s without dropping all the dust out and collecting the last six inches already pointing down so it should fall into the filter no matter what.








the traditional pant leg design on these Wye branches feature a standard 60° between legs.







these can be twisted to 180° to 90°








6 in. to 4 in. Round Reducer


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Thanks a lot for such detailed information. I'm sorry you're wasting so much time on me.
As for pipes, I have pipes that I plan to organize my workshop with. 
Diameter 7 inches, I don’t know what it is, but I have a lot. You will be surprised, but I barely got the 8-inch pipes for the manifolds. Otherwise, I have a choice of 6" or 4" pipes... I decided 7" was better. 
The pipes have thick walls, they can be cut at the corners and connected with glue. So I can do all the details. 
***
As for the tests, if I don't continue, it's very difficult for me to understand a lot and plan the next steps.

***
I live in Tbilisi, Georgia, there are not many things that I need for the workshop. 
The quality of what they cook here is unacceptable. 
So I have to do a lot myself. Transportation of finished goods from abroad costs unimaginable money.


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

@Giorgi that is 8 hours difference. 12:25 am

please note I'm not wasting time on you this has been an enjoyable challenge.

that is why I showed both metal and plastic fittings because I guess you weren't in America.

note that thin wall plastic pipe will also work just as well. if you're not using couplings then I think you should stay with the thicker wall to give you a better glue surface.

also what type of CAD / drawing program are you using.? is it some thing we would have here. maybe able to share files.


this will continue........

till next time Joe


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

Hi 
@Biotec 
I am using solidworks.
For some reason it was very easy for me, she easily adapted to my CNC program and I model everything through her.
I think I'm the only one in Georgia who uses this program, I haven't heard of anyone working with it yet.


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## Giorgi (3 mo ago)

These are my exhaust pipes. I bent it 90 degrees like this. Do you by any chance know the drawings of the blower with the shape of the wings indicated somewhere?


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## Biotec (Mar 14, 2021)

not sure but I will look some more when I get home after work.


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