# Propane Heater and Carbon Monoxide



## WWWorker (Jan 12, 2011)

I know the answer to this question.... sort of. I know that people use salamanders or torpedo heaters all the time to warm up their shop. Many of them run on propane. But why don't we worry about carbon monoxide build up?

I am looking at a new heat source for my shop. The overhead radiants and a space heater aren't cutting it anymore. I am looking to upgrade. I am usually out in my shop an hour or so a day (between 7:30 - 9:00 pm) and I live in MA. It gets cold up here around now and frankly being out there is not enjoyable lately. I have to wait so darn long to get the temp over 50 it isn't worth it. Or I have to turn the heat on a couple of hours before I go out there. 

Usually turning it on early isn't a huge deal but I suddenly found myself with a couple of spare hours today sans children. I immediately headed to the shop but I was chased out 45 minutes later (tough to make adjustments to the TS when the metal itself is 20 degrees). I have the place totally insulated (R19) including the ceiling. Once it gets warm it stays warm. I just don't have the means to get it warm quickly.

Sooooo I am looking at a propane heater. I suppose I should crack a couple of windows when I use it but can someone with a propane heater tell me why I shouldn't worry about carbon monoxide?


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Propane burns clean.

I heat both my house and shop with it.

You may be thinking of kerosene? :smile:


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## Burt (Nov 16, 2009)

I know the ceramic type LP heaters claim no monoide , but they warn you not to use in enclosed areas? Either way, they use oxygen, right? Even camper heaters have a small outside vent for fumes. I have thought about instlling one of those, but opted for a safe oil-filled electric heater instead.


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## WWWorker (Jan 12, 2011)

Well I think I am definitely going to crack a window and I have an outbuilding with gable vents that I will leave open slightly. I think once it warms up out there it will stay warm enough with the radiants in teh ceiling. I am just not interested in killing myself. 

The heater I am getting is definitely propane fired .


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## Firewalker (Jan 3, 2011)

wilbwworker said:


> I know the answer to this question.... sort of. I know that people use salamanders or torpedo heaters all the time to warm up their shop. Many of them run on propane. But why don't we worry about carbon monoxide build up?
> 
> I am looking at a new heat source for my shop. The overhead radiants and a space heater aren't cutting it anymore. I am looking to upgrade. I am usually out in my shop an hour or so a day (between 7:30 - 9:00 pm) and I live in MA. It gets cold up here around now and frankly being out there is not enjoyable lately. I have to wait so darn long to get the temp over 50 it isn't worth it. Or I have to turn the heat on a couple of hours before I go out there.
> 
> ...


I use an old dearborn heater that was set up for NG but I took the orifice out and run it on propane. I am not telling you this is "safe" but it is how I have heated both of my shops and garage for the last decade. You will have to use your own judgement on what to do.

I wouldn't say that I don't worry about CO accumulation because I do. Every couple of hours I will open the garage door and walk door and let some fresh air in. My old shop was self ventilating because it had no seals or insulation and believe me there was plenty of fresh air coming in.

I think a good test would be putting in a CO detector and seeing how it went. I have spent many hours out there with the heating done like this and have never had any symptoms of CO poisoning.

I have a woodstove that will take over duties soon enough.....(probably after the cold weather is gone, but I guess there is always next year.)

Good luck to you in whatever you decide.


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## joesdad (Nov 1, 2007)

I use propane to heat the shop too. It's a little orange box unit with a powerful fan. Kicks butt even when initially the shop temp is below freezing. I have to crack a couple windows after awhile or else my eyes start to burn a bit.


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## Radco (Mar 7, 2010)

*Heaters*

IMO in a small space use a vented LP heater for 2 reasons. as you already know it consumes air,,so leaving a window/door open is a plus.... also if you are staining/painting it will burn the fumes from the stain and cause odors and? If the gas burner is set up right vary little issues, BUT if it gets out of Wacke the fumes can get toxic.si have the burner check yearly,,,,,,Keep the burner clean of dust, the vent free burners have a oxygen se


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## Radco (Mar 7, 2010)

*Heaters*

be carefull with vent free heaters.when set up right they burn clean BUT add ALOT of moisture to the air,so refinishing could be a issue. KEEP the burner clean,the have a oxygen that can get dusty. have the burner checked yearly if used alot.....If you refinish or paint when Heater in use it reburns the fumes with side effect of bad odors and ??? As stated doors and windows open help the safty factor.......IMO a vented heater is the best and safest way to go,but also cost more...If your shop is attached to your house add a Modine heater(or similar brand) connected to your boiler.. A lower price LP heater is a model called a Hot Dog heater  yes its real brand name,, They work great, vent through the roof and not too costly........We use several brands of heaters and try and stay away from the junk thats out there,So I go by what our tecks have good results with.......So just be extra careful with vent free heaters..........


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## Jackfre (Dec 23, 2009)

*I live in MA too*

and would recommend that you look at the Rinnai Energysaver. www.rinnai.us I represent them so my bias is noted, but I heat my shop and both my houses with them. Sealed combustion, direct vent, cool to the touch, modulating burner and blower with a unit mounted tstat. Not the cheapest, but you won't find a better piece of equipment. How big is your shop?


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## Nate1778 (Mar 10, 2008)

I use one and you will be fine. The thing does a great job keeping me warm in my non insulated shop. When propane burns it creates Carbon Dioxide, which as you know isn't the same. I only know this cause many moon ago, when we used to grow copious amounts of hydro, we used the propane heaters for CO2. 

Mind you that was many moons ago.......

PS it does put a lot of moisture in the air though, make sure you protect your cast iron tools.


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## wood player (Jan 21, 2011)

*heat source*

If you have a vent you should be ok when you burn any kind of fuel you will consume O2 which means there is a shortage of one O2 molicule creating carbon monoxide :thumbdown:but it wants 2 so if it is avalible another oxygen molicule will be grabbed:yes: but if the area is too tight it cannot get it. carbon monoxide binds easier to the heme portion of the blood using up all the oxygen receptor sites and you tend to get blue, confused and nauseated so always have a fresh air source even when burning wood. :yes:


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## Radco (Mar 7, 2010)

Jackfre said:


> and would recommend that you look at the Rinnai Energysaver. www.rinnai.us I represent them so my bias is noted, but I heat my shop and both my houses with them. Sealed combustion, direct vent, cool to the touch, modulating burner and blower with a unit mounted tstat. Not the cheapest, but you won't find a better piece of equipment. How big is your shop?


 I agree with you on Rinnai ,,We have had GREAT luck with most of their units,,,, we sell alot of them
Rich


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## Ledhead (Aug 3, 2009)

I have used a propane patio heater to heat my shop. I never had any problem with CO buildup that I know about. My concern was the mixture of airborn sawdust and an open flame causing an explosion or fire.


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## SteveEl (Sep 7, 2010)

My post is about CO alarms and about "air sealing"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I suggest at least TWO co alarms. Redundancy is good and CO is odorless and invisible. Decent units cost in the $30 range so it would be sort of silly to ignore such a simple safety measure, and silly to just trust your life to one single unit working properly. 

*I JUST LEARNED THIS ABOUT CO ALARMS: *

The "test" function of alarms ONLY tests the speaker. It does not - repeat *not* - test the sensor!!!!! There are two and only two ways to have faith in the sensor. First, you could expose the unit to co in a controlled experiment. Since most of us don't have that expertise or equipment, the other way is to buy a new one according to the manufacturers recommendation. That bugs me since it seems like a scam to sell more products, but so far I don't know any other way to "test" the sensor circuit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```

When you insulated, did you "air seal" first? If not I suggest a trip up in the rafters and look at places where you have light fixtures, wires, and other "ceiling penetrations" . The insulation will probably look darkened. That means your warm air is going thru the R19 insulation and out to daylight, to be replaced by cold outside air, and that means its taking a lot longer than necessary to warm the shop up.  The discoloration is from the airborne crud that gets filtered out of the air as it passes thru the insulation. If you didn't air seal, I suggest you do that now. That won't cost more than a few cans of blow foam and a few dust masks, plus the time and sweat and could make a heap of difference. Of course if budget allows, beef up insulation more and just keep the shop at 50 degrees between visits. XPS foam on the inside plus a new interior wall covering might get you to R 30 walls, and its easy to blow cellulose to bring the attic to R 50. Don't forget the soffit vents, baffles, and roof ventilation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

If budget is there, check out fresh air heat exchangers by googling "Energy and heat recovery ventilators"
also known as ERV/HRV.


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

I have used a propane heater for about two years. If it is below 50 degrees I start the heater and let the shop heat up before working in it. I have an indoor/ out door thermometer with the transmitter(outdoor sensor) in the shop. When it gets near 60degrees I will go to the shop. Most of the time I don,t have the heater on for more than an hour or two while I'm in the shop. My shop is 24' x32' and I use a heater rated at a max of 50,000btu. Never had an issue. However I would not spray a flammable fluid with the open flame.
Tom


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## TS3660 (Mar 4, 2008)

IMO, this is what you need.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...log_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CGIQ8wIwAg#


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## WWWorker (Jan 12, 2011)

my shop is 12 x 20 and as much as I would like to take some of you up on these options. I am in no position to drop 400 - 500 dollars on heating the shop. So I think I will use the propane heater and vent the shop properly. THanks for all the info, I am feeling better.


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## pwoller (Dec 12, 2010)

I use propane and the smell can be alittle alarming. If I could I would use a woodburner.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

pwoller said:


> I use propane and the smell can be alittle alarming. If I could I would use a woodburner.


 
There should be no smell.

Either your burner needs attention, or you have a leak. :smile:


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## hawglet (Feb 15, 2010)

I/ve used a torpedo style propane heater to heat my garage for several years, however, it seems at about 55 or 60 my eyes start burning every time. I haven't used it regularly since adding electric heat. I use it to warm it quickly, meaning to get it to 50 or so then let the electric maintain and heat up to 65 area. I'm thinking mine has a dirty burner as it didn't cause the eyes to burn up until the last 4-5 years. Kerosene is better than that thing even on the eyes at least!


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## pwoller (Dec 12, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> There should be no smell.
> 
> Either your burner needs attention, or you have a leak. :smile:


So propane burns without scent? If so your right i have a problem. I have been around alot of propane heaters and they all have a smell to them.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Burt said:


> I opted for a safe oil-filled electric heater instead.


My mom gave me one of those and I thought this can't work that good in a large space. Well my shop is 20x25 insulated with a cold concrete slab floor. Now I know it's not cold here compared to up north, but that little heater on low to med keeps the shop toasty even when the temperature is the low 20's. I do let it run all the time because I have a dog that live in the shop but still they work allot better then I thought.


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## b00kemdano (Feb 10, 2009)

pwoller said:


> So propane burns without scent?


My gas grill (propane) burns without a scent... hey, there's an idea! Just throw a couple steaks on the grill in your shoppe, that'll heat it up and give you a great smell. :thumbsup:


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## Radco (Mar 7, 2010)

pwoller said:


> So propane burns without scent? If so your right i have a problem. I have been around alot of propane heaters and they all have a smell to them.


 Yes basicly no smell. BUT you may be smelling the unit heating up. IE: burning off dust etc..... If the burner is not adjusted properly then you can have bad odors that can be a problem,, Watch out for sooting as well, even light sooting is not good, it is a warning that something is not right........As mentioned have plenty of fresh air exchange and be carefull of solvents/stains as they give off fumes that can be explosive.......give them plenty of space to any heater,, I know that is basic info but sometimes we do forget ..


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## pwoller (Dec 12, 2010)

Radco said:


> Yes basicly no smell. BUT you may be smelling the unit heating up. IE: burning off dust etc..... If the burner is not adjusted properly then you can have bad odors that can be a problem,, Watch out for sooting as well, even light sooting is not good, it is a warning that something is not right........As mentioned have plenty of fresh air exchange and be carefull of solvents/stains as they give off fumes that can be explosive.......give them plenty of space to any heater,, I know that is basic info but sometimes we do forget ..


Some propane providers add oderizers to the gas.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

pwoller said:


> Some propane providers add oderizers to the gas.


 
They all do.
That is so you can detect if you have a leak or are not burning efficiently.

When burnt correctly it is odorless. :smile:


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## Radco (Mar 7, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Some propane providers add oderizers to the gas.


 As mentioned LP Gas and City gas have a oderizer in them ,,BUT as mentioned you smell it only from a leak not from burning it....Same with fuel oil..


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## wood player (Jan 21, 2011)

I am a little conserned from what I am reading in this post The smell is not your main conserne here carbon monoxide is and it has no smell the smell is just incomplete combustion


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