# Ripping on a miter saw



## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

I do not own a table saw. I do have a 12” sliding compound miter saw, with an 18” capacity. From time to time I have jigged it to do rip cuts. Despite some boneheaded mistakes, I have all my fingers and I think I’m over the peak of the learning curve.

After this experiment, I purchased this 24-tooth, 12” rip blade. I noticed on the packaging that it states it’s for use in a table saw, and _not_ in a miter saw. 

Aside from the general risk of ripping on a miter saw, is there some additional incompatibility between this blade and my saw?

Am I being downright idiotic in trying this tomfoolery to begin with?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Scary indeeed, and unsafe as well.....*

I have done it once, but strongly advise against it! :vs_OMG:
I will go into why or how I needed to do it, but years of experience was on my side. 



That rip blade may just dig into the workpiece and run forward despite what control you think you may have over it. Don't try it. 



:|


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Read this on blade differences.https://www.woodmagazine.com/tool-reviews/mitersaws/can-i-use-a-table-saw-blade-in-my-miter-saw


Agree with above on safety.


George


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## kiwi_outdoors (Jan 15, 2020)

I've done it on an old cheapie radial arm saw. It worked, but I was not thrilled to to it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A radial arm saw in not a miter saw!*



kiwi_outdoors said:


> I've done it on an old cheapie radial arm saw. It worked, but I was not thrilled to to it.



A radial arm saw has a carriage that will rotate 90 degrees and turn the blade parallel with the fence so you can rip with it. The miter saw does not have such a carriage. It only slides or pivots with the blade at 90 degrees to the fence. I have ripped many lineal feet using a radial arm saw, including 14 ft long boards. A miter saw is limited to the sliding capacity on the rails, typically about 16" or so, no where near the same.


:vs_cool:


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

Neither of the links worked for me. Anyway, what I believe to be true is for little more than the cost of even the most rudimentary 12" blade you can find something classed as a table saw on CL. I have seen good running saws for table saws sell for little as little as $50. I have seen them given away. Barring that I would rather see a table saw made from a circular saw and a straight edge than ever use a miter saw for ripping. 



The energy and money used on this silly dangerous effort will be better spent on some project that when complete will actually allow you to rip against a fence.


Good luck whatever you decide.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

You're better off with a circular saw, a good blade and a straight edge guide.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Freehand ripping is dangerous on a table saw where you only have to control the material, twice as dangerous on a miter saw when you are trying to control both material and blade.

A good hand rip saw will cut through the 12" capacity you have on a miter saw in a few seconds.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> I do not own a table saw. I do have a 12” sliding compound miter saw, with an 18” capacity. From time to time I have jigged it to do rip cuts.


i'd say your no more ripping with a miter saw than cutting a crotch, burl or knot would require multiple blade changes
i have a cross cut blade in my ras but have no qualms about mitering past 45° with it than i do ripping short, but wide stock
imo, ripping requires you to push the lumber past the blade

whether you are using the correct blade or not is up in the air
i'm not a fan of changing blades, nor does a little smoke bother me >


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

If your blade is above your material you should have a negative hook blade for ripping.

A table saw blade is positive hook because it is moving down and cutting by pressing the wood against the table, the tip of the tooth contacts the wood first. If you put that blade on a Radial Arm Saw or a sliding Compound Miter saw the angle of the teeth is set to fire that wood straight back towards you, the tip of the tooth will contact the wood from the bottom and lift it up as it pushes through - very dangerous. A Negative hook blade on an overhead saw contacts the wood with the heel of the tooth on the top of the wood and then pushes down as the blade rotates making the cut much safer.

My negative hook blades from Freud were over $100 each so you may want to just use the blade you bought for cross cutting and build yourself a track saw for long cuts.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Lost fact about ripping on a RAS .....*

When I studied the blade's tendency to lift the work off the table using a standard table saw blade, with a positive hook, I realized that the nose of the blade guard could be rotated to hold the work down in front. This should always be the case when ripping no matter what blade you are using. 

For crosscutting, the blade guard can be in it's normal horizontal position for maximum depth of cut. When I first began using a RAS some 25 or 30 years ago there weren't any negative hook blades at Sears, just the standard table saw blades, so that's what most folks used. :vs_OMG:That's why there were so many close calls or amputations, from the work being grabbed or thrown back. People didn't always pull the saw into the work, another big mistake. Pushing the saw into the work makes it want to rise up as the teeth enter the wood from the direction of rotation, lifting it up. You needed a very firm grip on your workpiece, holding it down and pressing it inwards towards the fence. Pushing it into the workpiece was an accident waiting to happen. Always pull your saw from behind the fence across your workpiece. However, a negative hook blade makes it much safer. 

A hand held circular saw has the blade entering from the top just like a radial arm saw, BUT a circ saw has a base plate unlike a RAS. The base plate presses down on the work from the weight of the saw keeping the workpiece in place. The table saw, the radial arm saw, the miter saw all have some things in common but they are distinctly different in their operating process.


:vs_cool:


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

Follow-up: the blade made a HUGE difference. I got clean, easy rip cuts. This was the same material and cut that was billowing steam and smoke and bogging down the blade with a 60t blade. 

To prevent the saw from running along the workpiece, I cut a block to jam in the slide so it couldn’t move forward.


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## Nick2727 (Jun 14, 2020)

That looks super dangerous, honestly look into getting a used table saw. 

Glad you got it to work, it really doesn't look like a long term solution though.

Take care, stay safe!


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## TimPa (Jan 27, 2010)

your cut will be much safer with a negative hook blade (clamp the piece down and be completely prepared for a saw coming toward you), and a FULL fence across the back, so the work is supported on both sides of the cut - which if unsupported is where i think the danger falls on this procedure. btdt


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## homestd (Aug 24, 2018)

Man!!! That blade is just sitting there waiting to chew something! Give it up, please. Where do you live? I'll rip it for you. I worked for a wood products manufacturer for over 10 years and I've seen some crazy **** but your operation there is semi-life threatening.


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## subroc (Jan 3, 2015)

At the end of the day, I don't really care what the OP does. If he wants to do a cutting operation with his tools that others find dangerous, all the power in the world to him. The OP can surely evaluate his own shop practice and shop safety.

That said, an anecdote on the power of a miter saw. A couple/few years back I had cut some oak strips 3/4X1-1/2" for banding on a 1-1/2 plywood router table top glue-up. I was cutting some 45 degree ends on those strips and fitting them. I cut one of them and the end piece wedged itself into the insert and then shot out of the saw. The piece ejected with so much power it went through a panel in the garage door. Even after it "holed" the door it ended up halfway down the driveway. I have a lot of respect for the power of a 12" miter saw.

As it relates to safe work habits we all have a line and they are all different. While none of us is perfect to be sure as that example clearly demonstrates, I surely don't invite obvious breaches of safety into my shop.

To the OP, good luck with your set-up.


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## homestd (Aug 24, 2018)

OK...I apologize for the alarmist post. I don't know what experience you have or your skill level, and I also, sometimes, use equipment for something it wasn't designed to do. I have learned to work with what I have. Good luck and be safe.


Charlie


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

I have ripped on a radial arm saw and realized you have to be half out of your mind. It is an accident waiting to happen. My grandfather always stressed "right tool for the right job". I am sure you have a circular saw. You would be far better served making a sled for your circular saw long enough to do your rips. It will be far more accurate and you will live to talk about it.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I will not quote a previous post here .......*

I also have ripped on a RAS, maybe about 1,000 lineal feet, each side of a 14 ft long 1" Cypress board, maybe 30 or so boards. There was NOT a single issue other than I used an extension cord of the wrong gauge, so the motor was overheating. It can be done safely and NO you don't have to be "out of your mind". If you do NOT know how the process can be done safely then by all means don't do it, BUT don't argue against it either. Here the thread showing my 28 ft long straight line rip using a 10" Craftsman RAS:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Dylan, the best way to get even cheeks and shoulders is to lay it out with a marking knife.

It’s a well thought out jig, but sometimes it is quicker (and safer!) to do certain tasks by hand. The time it takes to design and make a jig, do test cuts, dial it in, etc. you very well may have them all cut with a handsaw. Plus, if it’s a one off jig, you have all that time invested and never use it again.

My point is hand tool work can be just as accurate, in some cases more accurate, than a machine.

Either way you go, don’t try to cut the tenons perfect off the saw it’s too stressful and very difficult to do. Cut them big and use a chisel, rasp, and/or block plane to tune them up.

Cut the mortises first and fit the tenons to the mortises.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

DrRobert said:


> Dylan, the best way to get even cheeks and shoulders is to lay it out with a marking knife.
> 
> It’s a well thought out jig, but sometimes it is quicker (and safer!) to do certain tasks by hand. The time it takes to design and make a jig, do test cuts, dial it in, etc. you very well may have them all cut with a handsaw. Plus, if it’s a one off jig, you have all that time invested and never use it again.
> 
> ...


These are very true statements, and I believe in them. The problem for me is the investment in time, practice, and experience that it takes to achieve those high quality hand tool skills. There are no shortcuts. Sometimes I wish there were, especially when I am faced with a decision where hand tools would be better, but I don't have the skills and/or confidence that I won't mess up the time and effort that has been put into the project up to that point. :-(

Of course, improper use of power tools can result in much worse than messing up a project. :-o


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Just ask yourself a simple question. Which is more important, this small piece of wood or the continued use of your hands for the rest of your life? If it's the wood then carry on, but if, on the other hand your hands then find another solution and you've been given several very good options.
I had to learn about saw blades spinning faster than I can count to one more times than I want to admit and I really don't like spending time in emergency rooms much less the recovery process. If you're really unlucky there may be no recovery, just amputation and that's that. The last time I had to recover from my own stupidity I was out of commission for a minimum of 6 months.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

> Of course, improper use of power tools can result in much worse than messing up a project. :-o


Such as the complete loss of named and unnamed body parts, not that many of us have unnamed body parts..but with such accidents I suspect it's not all that uncommon.


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

Wow, pretty universally strong objections! 

Does it change anyone’s mind that (a) the cut I’m doing is just a chop, and so (b) I jammed the slide in place with a block of wood? There was zero slide action in this at all. It’s not pictured, but the workpiece was firmly clamped in place for each cut. And the gap in he back fence is v-shaped, so the tenon is supported on the end there. Barring a clamp failure, the only possible movement here was the chop of the blade.

Each cut ended up very smooth and easy.

But in the future, I’ll find a more tried and true solution, and won’t try this again or expand on it. I hear y’all loud and clear!


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## Danilo (Apr 27, 2021)

It's an honest mistake, it happens to the best of us. Not saying I'm actually a pro at anything, but I remember the type I bought a completly wrong sanding paper for my sander and ruined all of my chairs. I was looking to stripping off the old finish off them cause I had some varnish on it that was starting to peel off and I failed to notice that not only the layer of varnish was coming of, but chunks of the wood as well. Not sure how I didn't notice that, still thinking about to this day, but it made for a nice new vhair set. The other time around when I wanted to refurbish my decking, I read a lot more articles about sanders in general to make sure I'm not repeating my mistake in any way.


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## FirebirdHank (Jan 25, 2021)

I had a shop teacher in high school who would always say "never use a tool for anything other than its intended purpose". That quote always comes to mind when , in fact, I am doing something he told me not to. Usually just something like miss-use of a screw driver or chisel.


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## Parrdan (Nov 30, 2020)

I'm going to have nightmares tonight just thinking about the potential for danger.


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

His thread is nine months old. I posted back then that I survived the experience with all my parts intact.

While my jig worked well, I’ve since bought a table saw, so I shouldn’t need to resort to these shenanigans again.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

I ran across this thread after it had largely been exhausted. I would not have called what you were doing a "rip cut." It still seemed a bit dangerous, but seeing the jig and that you seemed to be using it to prepare the cheeks of a large tenon, it looked a lot less risky than what people were suggesting. I still woudn't do it myself, but I think you reduced the risk. There also seemed to be some ongoing confusion about a radial arm saws vs a miter saws. 

I am curious. What were you actually building? Also, are those glued-up sections of 2/4 or like a 4"x6" beam. If they were glued up, you could have safely and easily created each section with just a miter saw and glued them up afterwards to make laminated sections.

If that was a solid block of wood, then consider the above option. If that wasn't an option, the tenon part could have been created with something as simple as a circular saw with depth control and a jig that kept the angle right and following-up with a sharp chisel for clean-up. The mortise on the other end could have been created by drilling out the channel with a large drill bit and again following up with a sharp chisel. A plunge router would have been an option as well

Overall, though... that was probably a job for a well-adjusted bandsaw. With a piece of wood that large, even using a tablesaw you'd likely have a hard time keeping all that mass under precise control. 

if you find yourself facing projects like this again, _and_ you want to get some frustration out/relieved, check out "Mr. Chickadee" on YouTube. He's an almost entirely hand-tool woodworker and he's got videos where he fits a lot of large beams and large pieces of wood together using only chisels, hand drills, mallets, and wedges.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Also, I can't understand why so many people called your setup dangerous when _nobody_ called out this guy for creating this life-insurance-policy redeeming abomination. He posted it on these forums a couple years ago. 






Every time I see this thing, I can see another way that it could inflict a new sort of injury on someone.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

Look at his setup. he's got everything stopped, bumped and clamped so the work can't move:









This looks OK to me and if all I had was a sliding miter saw, it would be the way I would do it. It obviously worked as he stated above. Having the proper jigs and fixtures is just as important as the safety rules in my opinion and as someone who doesn't always play by the rules .... just sayin'.
Fingers are no where near the cutting path is still the first rule of saws, no matter the type, radial arm, miter, chop or tablesaw.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

Oh I agree. I think Dylan's setup looks pretty solid and under-control based on the photo you re-posted, but _a lot_ of folks jumped all over him earlier in this thread.

I'm just calling out that people jumped on him for doing something they thought was unsafe, while "BlueMacgyver" posted a link to a video of his miter saw/lathe combo on these forums and nobody called him out on it. I only ran across it because the "recommended reading" feature keeps dredging up 5-8 year old threads based on keywords, I guess..


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

RepairmanJack said:


> Oh I agree. I think Dylan's setup looks pretty solid and under-control based on the photo you re-posted, but _a lot_ of folks jumped all over him earlier in this thread.
> 
> I'm just calling out that people jumped on him for doing something they thought was unsafe, while "BlueMacgyver" posted a link to a video of his miter saw/lathe combo on these forums and nobody called him out on it. I only ran across it because the "recommended reading" feature keeps dredging up 5-8 year old threads based on keywords, I guess..


In fairness, not all of us were aware of BlueMacgyver's video until you brought it to our attention in this thread. I looked at it, and was as horrified as you. I would have posted a negative comment in YouTube, but I don't have an account there. It didn't seem worth it to create an account just for that. I held off commenting here before, but will comment now: 

I don't see the point of using the miter saw on the lathe. That's what turning tools are for. Allow me to point out that many spindle turning projects start out by roughing the blank down to a cylinder, aka "a dowel." 

Like you, I see multiple ways of injuring yourself using that miter saw/lathe contraption.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

The phrase "hold my beer" comes to mind... I did down vote that video - not that it counted for much, but I didn't see much point posting a comment on it - too many "cool" and "awesome" comments. I could post a list of obvious stupid ideas to ridicule the video, but it's probably better to let it go. 

I'm certainly going to be looking out for anything else that guy posts on here. Clearly there are a lot of people out there who don't see the inherent danger of such contraptions.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I don't know who said it first, but "It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt."


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## Dylan JC Buffum (Jun 9, 2019)

For those who asked, these were solid wood pieces, not laminated.

Here’s the final product.












































































Wagon Wheel Chandelier


My wife's sister and her family are building a very large house with cathedral ceilings, and exposed beams with traditional barn joinery. They were looking for something "rustic" and we got to discussing converting an old wagon wheel into a chandelier. After hunting around and seeing nothing...




www.woodworkingtalk.com





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

WOW! _VERY_ Nice work Dylan!


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## kwoodhands (May 1, 2020)

Dylan JC Buffum said:


> I do not own a table saw. I do have a 12” sliding compound miter saw, with an 18” capacity. From time to time I have jigged it to do rip cuts. Despite some boneheaded mistakes, I have all my fingers and I think I’m over the peak of the learning curve.
> 
> After this experiment, I purchased this 24-tooth, 12” rip blade. I noticed on the packaging that it states it’s for use in a table saw, and _not_ in a miter saw.
> 
> ...


Yes you are an idiot, for starters how is it possible to even crosscut on a 18" on a slide saw. I have 10" Milwaukee slide saw and can probably crosscut about 8" only by raising the back of the work into the blade. Even with a 12" slide saw I doubt you can crosscut more than 10" . Miter saws are for crosscuts. Slide saws the same but with more capacity.
You can rip and crosscut on a table saw, you can only crosscut on a slide saw. Buy a handheld circular saw at the least.
mike


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

kwoodhands said:


> Yes you are an idiot, for starters how is it possible to even crosscut on a 18" on a slide saw. I have 10" Milwaukee slide saw and can probably crosscut about 8" only by raising the back of the work into the blade. Even with a 12" slide saw I doubt you can crosscut more than 10" . Miter saws are for crosscuts. Slide saws the same but with more capacity.
> You can rip and crosscut on a table saw, you can only crosscut on a slide saw. Buy a handheld circular saw at the least.
> mike












Did you even look at the photo of the set up before calling this member an "idiot"? He is the most cautious and safety conscious "idiot" I've ever seen. Your post is filled with mis-statements of fact as well as insulting. Before you "rip" into a talented member, I suggest you get your facts straight and leave out the insults.

A circular saw can crosscut OR rip, and a sliding miter saw is no different. The saw is held in a carriage, not freehand, so there is no difference in how it cuts, just how it's held. The blade plays a role on how well it will rip or crosscut, but a 40 tooth blade will do either.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

woodnthings said:


> [...]Did you even look at the photo of the set up before calling this member an "idiot"? [...]


In fairness to @kwoodhands, @Dylan JC Buffum asked, "Am I being downright idiotic in trying this tomfoolery to begin with?", so kwoodhands was responding in kind. I doubt that kwoodhands would have used the term if it hadn't come up from the OP first. I suggest that we tone down the rhetoric and address the questions with gentle courtesy ... on all sides.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

In response, I would not have called him an "idiot" because of the care he took to make the setup safe. There's no "idiot" in that setup.
Obviously, he was being facetious and self deprecating. I would have and did praise him for being that cautious, even saying I would have done the same if all I owned was a miter saw. I'm waiting for someone to refute my statement that a miter saw is just a circular saw held in a carriage that slides. The blade is still cutting from above the workpiece, the exception being the circ saw has a base to prevent the workpiece from lifting up from blade rotation. That's the reason the OP used all the clamps to secure it. OK, I'm done here.


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

I agree. The guy applied some skill and safety in an unconventional manner and ended up with some very nice looking work. Maybe let's stop calling him an "idiot" ?

Again, nobody had a problem with this guy sharing in here.








Miter Lathe Combo Video! New Machine


Here is a video of my home built and self invented MITER LATHE COMBO: :icon_smile:http://youtu.be/bDNX-YK3Wfc:blink: I have heard all the warnings about safety with this machine, so we can for go all the comments about safety. I can turn out a piece so much faster now!




www.woodworkingtalk.com


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

what nancy brought this thread back to life? 
dylan is no more ripping on a chop saw than, cutting a circle on a bandsaw would be considered using a lathesaw
the light turned out nice dylan


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

_Ogre said:


> what nancy brought this thread back to life?
> dylan is no more ripping on a chop saw than, cutting a circle on a bandsaw would be considered using a lathesaw
> the light turned out nice dylan


That'd be post #38


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

post #25 brought it from 10 mths ago, new guy who has never come back


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## RepairmanJack (Aug 4, 2013)

_Ogre said:


> post #25 brought it from 10 mths ago, new guy who has never come back


Upon review, that post appears to be completely irrelevant to the discussion. Regardless, I'm glad Dylan came back and showed us his "finished" photos


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