# Hand planes



## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

Lots of threads about hand planes here. The impression I get is that all planes that are not 50 years old and made by Stanley are not worth a (Choose your own derogatory word)! 

Is this really the case? Are there no reasonably priced new hand planes being made today? 
Thanks.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Depends upon your definitions of quality and reasonable.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

I use old Stanleys because I bought them cheap! I have an opinion that a plane is just a device to hold a chisel. I think that with the proper amount of tuning, any plane can be made to work. 

I did buy a rabbet plane made in India and found that the iron is not properly heat treated and is brittle. When I plane the white oak that I work with, it chips. That's a royal pain!


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

sawdustfactory said:


> Depends upon your definitions of quality and reasonable.


I'll quantify best I can. 

A quality general purpose bench plane with a blade that can be sharpened to a smoothe useable edge that does not chip easily and remains sharp for a reasonable time. A frame that holds the blade securely. For $70 plus or minus. 

Are there other qualities that you suggest?


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## jkristia (Feb 6, 2009)

How much is reasonably priced?


I got a Woodriver #5 for Christmas, and right out of the box it makes some nice shavings. I only cleaned it and checked for flatness and square (and it was spot on).I have no experience with hand planes, but to me this seems like a good quality plane and I think at a decent price.

edit: you posted while I was typing. The Woodriver is more than the $70 ($150) so I guess you would not consider that reasonable.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

jkristia said:


> How much is reasonably priced?
> 
> 
> I got a Woodriver #5 for Christmas, and right out of the box it makes some nice shavings. I only cleaned it and checked for flatness and square (and it was spot on).I have no experience with hand planes, but to me this seems like a good quality plane and I think at a decent price.
> ...


That is a nice looking plane. It looks like they are quite a bit more "reasonable" if you are in Canada, "Canadian Orders Only." ??

http://www.robcosman.com/tools_planes-woodriver.php

The $70 mark was a bit random, plus or minus. $150 is a lot to pay for a hand plane.


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## Wrangler02 (Apr 15, 2011)

If $70 is your target price, I would suggest you start looking for used. 

I have not paid that much for an old Stanley.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Old Stanleys go for $20-$45 at flea markets near me, depending on how much rust they have. 

I can refurb one in 2-4 hours. Later on I upgrade to a Hock blade and chip breaker. That adds another $50-$60. 

A new Stanley sweetheart bench plane is around $180.

But then, I like using 100 year old tools.

...GEAUX KNICKS...


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Brink said:


> Old Stanleys go for $20-$45 at flea markets near me, depending on how much rust they have.
> 
> I can refurb one in 2-4 hours. Later on I upgrade to a Hock blade and chip breaker. That adds another $50-$60.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have a couple of Wood River planes (which I thought did not need to be tuned but later discovered that they did), a Veritas and a Lie Nielson. All are very nice planes. But I have started acquiring old Stanley's and I have found that, cleaned and tuned, they work as well and are a joy to use. I just enjoy using a tool that was made when my Grandfathers were children. I gave Stanley Jack Planes to my sons for Christmas and was gratified to see the same sense of awe on their faces when they held those planes for the first time.


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## joesbucketorust (Dec 13, 2011)

I don't think old Stanleys are the only way to go.There is also Millers Falls, Sargent, Spiers, Norris. And of course Winchester, Keen Kutter, Craftsman were all made by other name-brand makers and many are very good. And Stanley, MF and Sargent all made some serious losers too. There is a big difference between an early #4 made for the pros, and a Handyman marketed for the homeowner. 

As for reasonable, it all depends on your definition. I'm on a very fixed budget - I'm not frugal - I'm downright stingy, and I think $230 for a Veritas with those ugly handles (Yes, looks are important - it's a zen thing. :smile is the height of stupidity. But there are so many people that disagree with me that Veritas is thriving. And they're towards the low-end of the market. The LNs are a bit more but at least they got the look and feel right and a lot of people are snatching their planes up. (I've got one of their block planes, but in my defense it was a gift.) And there are makers out there selling infills that start well north of a grand and they've got a strong business going. Compared to all those guys, the Groz are a steal at around 50 bucks.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

joesbucketorust said:


> the Groz are a steal at around 50 bucks.


The Groz planes are on clearance at Woodcraft online. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2005276/10698/GROZ-Bench-Plane-5-Jack-14.aspx


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

I ordered the #5 for $19. Seems like I can't go wrong. I'll replace the blade if necessary, File a screw or whatever, Tap a hole if needed, unless it really sucks. $28 after shipping. 

I guess I will see how I like it. ; )


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

SeanStuart said:


> I ordered the #5 for $19. Seems like I can't go wrong. I'll replace the blade if necessary, File a screw or whatever, Tap a hole if needed, unless it really sucks. $28 after shipping.
> 
> I guess I will see how I like it. ; )


I have dealt with just one Groz plane, a smoother that I bought for my oldest son for Christmas last year. I had to put in several hours getting it in shape to do any real work, but once I had flattened the sole, flattened the face of the plane iron and honed the bevel, it worked OK. I haven't had to work nearly as hard to get 100 year old Stanley's tuned up as I did that Groz, though


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

HandToolGuy said:


> I have dealt with just one Groz plane, a smoother that I bought for my oldest son for Christmas last year. I had to put in several hours getting it in shape to do any real work, but once I had flattened the sole, flattened the face of the plane iron and honed the bevel, it worked OK. I haven't had to work nearly as hard to get 100 year old Stanley's tuned up as I did that Groz, though


I also bought a 7" stanley on ebay for $5 plus shipping. It probably isn't 100 years old, but it looks like it.


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## Lockes Woodshop (Oct 25, 2011)

I dont have much experience with hand planes but recently ive posted and got some ideas on what to get and wound up on ebay. I bought old stanley bailey #3-#7 and have spent about $180 (not including shipping) for all 5. Im just learning to tune them and so far they are amazing. The jack plane was ready to go when it arrived. In just a couple weeks of using them already prefer these to my jointer and planer. Wood rivers are very nice and id love to have a set but i cant justify the expense when these older ones work great.


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## Larry Sockwell (Mar 18, 2011)

SeanStuart said:


> Lots of threads about hand planes here. The impression I get is that all planes that are not 50 years old and made by Stanley are not worth a (Choose your own derogatory word)!
> 
> Is this really the case? Are there no reasonably priced new hand planes being made today?
> Thanks.



I never bothered with buying old tools until recently because I didn't have the time, nor the inclination, to repair them. I regret that decision. I recently bought a Stanley #5 off Ebay for $35 and two hours after delivery I decided that no new hand plane was worth the money being asked as long as tools like mine are available.


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## joesbucketorust (Dec 13, 2011)

I think one of the that determines whether a person likes/hates the old stuff compared to the new is the ability to tune/sharpen it quickly and easily. If they can get past the mystique of sharpening, setting, and general tuneup they will be amazed at how good the old stuff is. But if they can't, and someone gives them a brand new LN that is ready to shave hairs straight out of the box, then they end up going to the dark side. Of course when the LN eventually gets dull (which can be a long long time - what kind of kryptonite are those cutters made of?) they'll have to learn how to sharpen or buy another one. 

I was lucky enough to get the hang of tuning a plane rather easily and I enjoy buying an old one and bringing it back to life. I just wish it would carry over to other tools - I don't carve much because I can't sharpen any non-linear blade to save my life. I have a nice pile of antique carving gouges that would fetch big bucks on flea-bay. Most are so dull they wouldn't cut a good fruitcake. And I've got a bunch of skew chisels I never use because I can't figure out how to get the bevel right on both sides, with that slight curve, without burning them. So they just sit there in the rack mocking me every time I go towards the lathes while I use the lathe gouges that still have the original factory grind, which limits me to the most basic of shapes.


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## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

The newer planes made by Stanley are a pale comparison to the older planes (WWII and earlier.) The tolerances are a lot looser and the quality of the parts is rubbish. I bought a new 60-1/2 block plane and it took me as long to tune it up as it did a 50 year old #5. I think it is ridiculous that a new plane needs more than the smallest amount of tuning unless you are looking for a mirror finish on your sole. I did see a Woodriver in use recently and frankly was amazed at how well it performed. I had heard mixed reviews but I would definately consider buying one after what I saw. They aren't expensive and seem to perform admirably.

As others mentioned you can buy a LN or any number of other modern manufacturers and get a wonderful tool but you will pay for it. If I had an extra $400 sitting around burning a hole in my pocket I'd buy one in a heartbeat. I don't, so I buy old Stanleys and Millers Falls and put a little TLC into them. Personally I like tuning up old planes. I'm far from the best at it but I can get them working pretty well. I took two that I tuned into the shop I take classes at and everyone there was amazed at how well they cut - so even my crappy tuning is apparently pretty good  And like joesbucketorust mentioned there are a lot of options available if you buy used. I really like Millers Falls tools from both a functional and aesthetic point of view. As a bonus they generally cost less than Stanley because not as many people are trying to buy them. I got a #14 (Stanley #5) for $12 after shipping off of eBay. It looked like it had been used once and then stored until I bought it.


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

You know what they say. Ask the man that owns one! I have Groz planes. A standard block plane, and the #4, #5, #6, and #7. They all needed to be sharpened, the #4 and $5 needed the soles and frogs flattened, the #6 and #7 were nearly perfect out of the box (so far that is, they were Christmas gifts...). 

Groz gets knocked around a bit by the buy old planes crowd, but I bought my Groz planes because ALL of the old Stanley / Bailey / Bedrock stuff I was finding was either busted, or 1980s or so vintage and junk... The mechanics of the Groz are very well done, and aside from having to work a little bit to get a within spec concave out of the sole of the #5 (spec is .003", the concave was at .002"). The hardest part was flattening the frogs of the #4 and #5, and that really was no big deal... 

Woodcraft is clearancing out the Groz planes and they can be had for dirt cheap money. They have the #3, #4, #5, and #7 left. No #6 though...

For the price point you are looking at, either new or used, you are not going to get a plane that doesn't need to be tuned and sharpened, and even if you bought a multi hundred dollar plane, you would eventually need to at least sharpen the thing, so you might as well get the practice now right? 

Would I have preferred old pre WW2 Stanleys or such? Sure, but like I said, I waited around looking at the regular sources and all I saw were either overpriced, or broken with things like cracked soles etc... I didn't mind tuning, but I DO mind welding...


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## amckenzie4 (Apr 29, 2010)

I have a few old planes, mainly because I'm not able to pay for new ones. My experience has been that, if you want to pay less than $100 for something that gets universally good reviews, you're going to have to go with old tools. The new ones just aren't as high quality. (And it's not just tools! My old cast iron cookware, even the cheap stuff, is FAR better than the new Lodge stuff! I had to attack my shiny new Lodge pan with a random orbit sander and 80 grit paper to get it smooth enough to bother with! And don't get me started on the "pre-seasoned" garbage they're pulling these days....)

That said: quality has always been expensive. I haven't used any of the new higher-end stuff, but if it works as advertised I don't see $150-200 as being outrageous. Material cost has gone up, labor cost has gone up, shipping has gone up, and manufacturing is a lot more expensive than it used to be.

Buying an old tool in good shape is a lot more efficient. Not every old plane needs a lot of work... some of them just need sharpening, which you'd have to do pretty soon on a new plane anyway. Some need sharpening and flattening, and those are both easy, at least to my standards. (I figure if marker is wearing off completely, and everywhere, in four or five strokes across the sandpaper, that's good enough for my use.) I haven't spent more than about an hour on anything since the first, and that was while I was still trying to figure out HOW to sharpen the iron, and I don't think I've paid more than around $45, including shipping, for any of my planes.


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## eagle49 (Mar 22, 2011)

*used*

I get off on fixing something old and crapy into something nice. Also made a good living doing it.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

Found this one on E-bay..

Can someone tell me if this is a #3 or a #2? I'm pretty sure it's a Stanley.:icon_cheesygrin:


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

johnray said:


> I get off on fixing something old and crapy into something nice. [...]


To what end if you don't use them?



johnray said:


> I have alot [planes] but don't use them, I have a big jointer and planer. I just like to have them, sometimes I go into my museum and look at them. I use hand tools the do my cavings.


~tom. ...GEAUX TIGERS!... ...GEAUX SAINTS!......


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

The Groz came in the mail Saturday. It took about 45 min to clean the cosmoline, or whatever they use these days, off it. Then about 30 min on the blade (it could use a bit more work). 

Oddly It took about 30 min to remove the handles and make the bottom of the wooden handle flat so it would match the plane. There was about an eighth inch gap between the base and the front of the rear handle, so it wobbled a bit. 

Then put it back together, lined everything up and it seems pretty nice. I put it on the table saw top and there is no gap, it dosen't rock. 

I know it is not a precision instrument, but I think it will do for now. I like hand planeing and it is going to take some practice.


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

Flatten the sole. Always do that on any new plane.


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## Lockes Woodshop (Oct 25, 2011)

SeanStuart said:


> The Groz came in the mail Saturday. It took about 45 min to clean the cosmoline, or whatever they use these days, off it. Then about 30 min on the blade (it could use a bit more work).
> 
> Oddly It took about 30 min to remove the handles and make the bottom of the wooden handle flat so it would match the plane. There was about an eighth inch gap between the base and the front of the rear handle, so it wobbled a bit.
> 
> ...


I bought them last week too and same thing happened to me. When i took the tote from the #4 the bolt was bent and threads were boogered up. I used a piece of all-thread and flatened the the bottom of tote and used a 1/2" forstner bit to open the top of it for the nut to have a bitt more room. I spent some time sharpening the blade but couldnt get it quite right so i ordered hock blades for all of them except the #7 its done quite well straight out of the box. Id recommend the Groz to anyone. With the low price and a little bit of work they are pretty amazing.


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## HandToolGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

By the time you have done all that work, you could have rehab'd a nice set of classic 100 year old Stanleys. The difference is that the Stanleys will be worth more to your heirs.


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## Lockes Woodshop (Oct 25, 2011)

HandToolGuy said:


> By the time you have done all that work, you could have rehab'd a nice set of classic 100 year old Stanleys. The difference is that the Stanleys will be worth more to your heirs.


I did buy old stanleys but decided to put them up for collection. I scored a late 1800 s and 1920s all in great shape. I figured when my son gets older itd be nice to collect with him and know when i pass em on they wont be found at the bottom of a box in a yard sale. The #3 i got cuts like a dream but all others have knicked blades so one day itll be a nice project for us to restore them.


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## jaxonquad (Jan 26, 2011)

SeanStuart said:


> I'll quantify best I can.
> 
> A quality general purpose bench plane with a blade that can be sharpened to a smoothe useable edge that does not chip easily and remains sharp for a reasonable time. A frame that holds the blade securely. For $70 plus or minus.
> 
> Are there other qualities that you suggest?


I cant speak for anyone, and someone may have already said (because honestly I didnt read all the replies) 
The blade does all the work but the frog is the backbone of a plane. Im not familiar with many brands. I own mostly Sargent VBMs, but the coolest feature (IMHO) on a plane is the easy frog adjustments on the stanley bedrocks or the autoset feature on some Sargents.
p.s. I highly recomend "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack.


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## SeanStuart (Nov 27, 2011)

jaxonquad said:


> I cant speak for anyone, and someone may have already said (because honestly I didnt read all the replies)
> The blade does all the work but the frog is the backbone of a plane. Im not familiar with many brands. I own mostly Sargent VBMs, but the coolest feature (IMHO) on a plane is the easy frog adjustments on the stanley bedrocks or the autoset feature on some Sargents.
> p.s. I highly recomend "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack.


I am looking at that exact book right now. I just started flipping through it. Got it this afternoon - used. Some really cool stuff in there! Those Japanese blades look nice!

Edit: Sorry, Irons.


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## joesbucketorust (Dec 13, 2011)

jaxonquad said:


> I own mostly Sargent VBMs, but the coolest feature (IMHO) on a plane is the easy frog adjustments on the stanley bedrocks or the autoset feature on some Sargents.


The bedrock frog adjustment is novel, but I've rarely had to adjust an entire frog on the fly. Usually I rehab a plane when I buy it, and the frog gets set then. 

I like VBMs too. They are very solid planes. I also like the wood - some kind of walnut? - that Sargent used. This one is a #2 sized I got at the flea market a couple of years ago. The guy ahead of me picked it up and put it down because it wasn't a Stanley. I paid the $40 asking price with no hesitation.


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## cocheseuga (Dec 15, 2010)

dbhost said:


> You know what they say. Ask the man that owns one! I have Groz planes. A standard block plane, and the #4, #5, #6, and #7. They all needed to be sharpened, the #4 and $5 needed the soles and frogs flattened, the #6 and #7 were nearly perfect out of the box (so far that is, they were Christmas gifts...).
> 
> Groz gets knocked around a bit by the buy old planes crowd, but I bought my Groz planes because ALL of the old Stanley / Bailey / Bedrock stuff I was finding was either busted, or 1980s or so vintage and junk... The mechanics of the Groz are very well done, and aside from having to work a little bit to get a within spec concave out of the sole of the #5 (spec is .003", the concave was at .002"). The hardest part was flattening the frogs of the #4 and #5, and that really was no big deal...
> 
> ...


I think I may be going this route to add any more planes. Flea markets are few and far between here, and my weekends are filled with kid stuff anyway. There was a guy on CL that bought, rehabbed and sold planes, but I don't know what happened to him. I don't use eBay or Paypal anymore.


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