# New-used Table Saw Restoration - Cftsman 113.299040



## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

So, as I mentioned in my other thread, I was researching on an older Craftsman TS. Turns out the model number was wrong. I was using the motor # instead. The acutal saw was the Cftsman 113.299040. I picked it up yesterday and have been working on cleaning it up. I will use this thread as a little diary of sorts of my progression. In doing so, I will also be solicition guidance, advice, and commentary as this is my first saw and I would like to make sure I am going about it in the right way.

To begin, I disassembled the saw, including removing the motor, blade, rail, and extension. Following the advice of CuznMike, I began the sanding process yesterday and finished it up today (see before and after pics). Not too bad IMO. I am now in the processes of order the polish/wax. I did some research through reading some previous threads. Topcoat/canning wax/johnson paste/minwax to name a few suggestions found. I will probably go with something that I don't have to order as I would like to get er done in the next day or so.

One of the things I have heard about this saw was related to the fence. Now, being I have never used a ts, I don't know what the standards are set by and what makes a good fence/rail system a good one and vice/versa. Little help on that would be nice. Also, as I would like to use one side of the other as a location for a router table, how much does an upgraded fence/rail system help in doing that?

The saw came with 2 miter gauges. The need some cleaning due to some rusting. Any advice regarding them? Do the need to be upgraded or what?


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*more pics*

I also cleaned the motor as it was very dusty. Removing was not difficult, and as mentioned in the older thread, will probably be a ritual for storage when not in use due to depth and parking issues.

So please, let the teaching begin. Pass along any pointers you have. I am ready to get the sawdust piling. thanks in advance - I look forward to hearing back from you all.

Johnny


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*V-Belts?*

So, pick up a new belt today from autozone. Took my old belt in for a match, that was what they gave me. I asked the young lady if the belt was 41" (that's the required length according to the stock belt) she said yes cause there was a 41 on the belt. After returning home, looked it up and sure enough, the belt was 40". I did a test fit for S&G. No blade attached. No cutting. Appeared to turn the arbor just fine, but I don't want to do anything that could lead to potential problems later over something so simple.

My question is how much if any difference does that make since the saw has an adjustable mounting bracket on the back? Also, should I be concerned with it having teeth as opposed to the stock not having any?

Sears sells the belt for $5, but there shipping cost more than that. I hate paying more in shipping than the value of the item..

Thanks for advice in advance.

Johnny


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## jaxonquad (Jan 26, 2011)

I ran into the same issue with a belt for a lathe restoration...needed 31" got a 33" ...worked fine with a few tweaks.
The ribs shouldn't make a difference as long as it rides on the pulley the same. You said adjustable mount, are you still able to lock the motor into place (is it stationary) with the shorter belt? 
Does it add tension? 
Hard to say without seeing it, but 3/4 of an inch adjustment seems reasonable to me.


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## Bob R (Sep 22, 2010)

In regard to your miter gauge's, if you intend to use this saw just throw them away and get yourself at least a v27 from this site.

http://www.woodpeck.com/miterv27.html


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

I have a Craftsman table saw that used to have that same fence. I say used to because I got rid of it in a hurry. Really bad fence. 

I upgraded to another Craftsman fence that I really like. Do not think it is available anymore. There are a number of good fences on the market. I much prefer one that has the accessory tool slot in the side. Gives a lot of versitility.

My miter guage is also stored somewhere unknown. I first made a sled and later purchased a better one from Rockler. The Rocklet sled is great for crosscuts. Especially good fo angled cross cuts. Easy to set the angles down to 1/4 degree.

George


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

jaxonquad said:


> I ran into the same issue with a belt for a lathe restoration...needed 31" got a 33" ...worked fine with a few tweaks.
> The ribs shouldn't make a difference as long as it rides on the pulley the same. You said adjustable mount, are you still able to lock the motor into place (is it stationary) with the shorter belt?
> Does it add tension?
> Hard to say without seeing it, but 3/4 of an inch adjustment seems reasonable to me.


Everything fits pretty tight. I can still tighten the adjuster bolt just fine. No rattle or anything. still have to try a cut though to feel a little more certain.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Canarywood said:


> In regard to your miter gauge's, if you intend to use this saw just throw them away and get yourself at least a v27 from this site.
> 
> http://www.woodpeck.com/miterv27.html


I plan to upgade eventually, but those cost more than my saw lol...thanks for the link.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I have several of those fences....*

Laying on a shelf. I replaced them with a Delta unifence, and yes it cost more than my saw also. But what a joy to use. I did make a major modification on that old Craftsman fence, still have the aluminum bar 6 foot long and possibly the attachment head for the fence. It worked OK, but eventually you will realize the blade and motor are the heart of the saw, but the fence is the brains! A table saw with a fence that won't square when it's tightened or slid is a PITA.
Shop Fox/Grizzly makes a decent fence for a reasonable price.  bill
http://www.grizzly.com/products/The-Shop-Fox-Classic-Fence-System-w-Standard-Rails/G8826


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

GeorgeC said:


> I have a Craftsman table saw that used to have that same fence. I say used to because I got rid of it in a hurry. Really bad fence.
> 
> I upgraded to another Craftsman fence that I really like. Do not think it is available anymore. There are a number of good fences on the market. I much prefer one that has the accessory tool slot in the side. Gives a lot of versitility.
> 
> ...


I've been researching so alternate fences. May venture into a build based on some of the ideas here shown on the site.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

woodnthings said:


> Laying on a shelf. I replaced them with a Delta unifence, and yes it cost more than my saw also. But what a joy to use. I did make a major modification on that old Craftsman fence, still have the aluminum bar 6 foot long and possibly the attachment head for the fence. It worked OK, but eventually you will realize the blade and motor are the heart of the saw, but the fence is the brains! A table saw with a fence that won't square when it's tightened or slid is a PITA.
> Shop Fox/Grizzly makes a decent fence for a reasonable price.  bill
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/The-Shop-Fox-Classic-Fence-System-w-Standard-Rails/G8826


I definitly understand woodnthings..As far as the initial setup went, the fence lined up fairly accurate based on my measurement/readings. I am definitly going to upgrade to something. I am just trying to get this thing up and running. I have to start making stuff to justify the purchase to my girlfriend. Right now, it is just taking up precious garage space lol..:laughing:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*This is a simple design*



abetrman said:


> I've been researching so alternate fences. May venture into a build based on some of the ideas here shown on the site.


Others have made a fence from Unistrut and fittings similar to this design: http://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_products.htm

A useful thread: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/home-made-table-saw-fence-ideas-21150/

*EZ Square Table Saw Fence* 
The EZ Square Table Saw Rip Fence is the perfect aftermarket fence if you're serious about saving time and making straight cuts. The EZ Square Table Saw Fence was designed to be that dependable piece of equipment in your workshop that you can trust every time you use it. It takes a simple, no-frills approach that gets the job right every time.
The EZ Square Table Saw Fence fits most saw and some drilling may be required.​ 

*T-Slots on the fence top and front and back faces let you mount all sorts of accessories like Board Buddies and Featherboards.*
*The EZ Square Fence can be used right or left of the saw blade.*
*UHMW Face on both left and right faces means super smooth operation.*
*T-Track mounting of the fence rails means the fence rails can be adjusted to the left or right without re drilling.*
*25" EZ Square Table Saw Fence * *$239.99*

*Phone Order Only 
(888) 512-9069 
Requires extra shipping fees. *​


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks woodnthings..that home made table saw fence thread is the one I was referring to. Thanks for the pointers.

*that ez square link would't work for me. where did you get that from?
**never mind, I googled it. didn't realized it tied back to the peachtree products.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

Good work on the saw. I agree the fence is junk. For $155 shipped, you can get this fence, http://www.tools-plus.com/delta-36-t30.html and you will love it. Keep your old fence, so if, in the future you upgrade the saw, you can keep the fence.
As for the miter gauge, use it. It will lock solid at any position. Many a nice piece of furniture was made with miter gauges, equal to those.

Good luck with it. Be careful, there are a lot of woodworkers missing fingers!


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

It's easy to justify a new fence, to a loved one. It's safer to use! It really is.
Another safety is a sharp blade. For the money, it's hard to beat a deal at HD. A 24 tooth ripping blade, and a 60 tooth crosscutting blade for $19.95. Skil brand. I usually use more expensive blades, but tried these. So far just used the 60 tooth. Good for the price.
You will want a ripping blade for this saw, because of the lower hp. Thin kerf blades also are recommended.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*Since you mentioned blades...*



Pirate said:


> It's easy to justify a new fence, to a loved one. It's safer to use! It really is.
> Another safety is a sharp blade. For the money, it's hard to beat a deal at HD. A 24 tooth ripping blade, and a 60 tooth crosscutting blade for $19.95. Skil brand. I usually use more expensive blades, but tried these. So far just used the 60 tooth. Good for the price.
> You will want a ripping blade for this saw, because of the lower hp. Thin kerf blades also are recommended.


Here are a couple of pics of the new blades I picked up as a recommendation from KnottScott. Also, I included a pic of the one that came with the saw with I purchased it. I think it says Pirahna.

As far as the justification...it's not the expense of getting new stuff, it the fact that i am getting these tool whether they are new, old, expensive or free. I am getting into this as a hobby and diy'er, but haven't done any projects yet because I been doing all my research and stuff. In the meantime, the garage is covered with wood, mostly reclaimed from CL and saw parts as I get this put together. She has been patient, but I know it is only going to last so long:laughing:


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*On the topic of fences..*

I understand the importance of the fence. You guys have definitely driven it home. The alignment being the main thing. As I have began the setting up of the saw and table, I did a test run on the fence set-up. Attached are a couple of pics of the alignment based on the distance between the fence and the miter slot. This was done without any fine-tuning of the rear end so to speak. Just slide the saw over the the desire location and tightened it down. I was a little surprised with the outcome.

Now, with that said, I will not take this a a sign that this fence is ready to go. I do trust that thos with experience with this fence will know more that I, but just thought I would put it out there for a little feedback.

Thanks for all the feedback and info so far. You all have been very helpful.

Johnny


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

abetrman said:


> I understand the importance of the fence. You guys have definitely driven it home. The alignment being the main thing. As I have began the setting up of the saw and table, I did a test run on the fence set-up. Attached are a couple of pics of the alignment based on the distance between the fence and the miter slot. This was done without any fine-tuning of the rear end so to speak. Just slide the saw over the the desire location and tightened it down. I was a little surprised with the outcome.
> 
> Now, with that said, I will not take this a a sign that this fence is ready to go. I do trust that thos with experience with this fence will know more that I, but just thought I would put it out there for a little feedback.
> 
> ...


If that's front and back measure...looks close enough.












 





 
.


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## Clouseau (Mar 22, 2009)

Once again I vote for a Unifence. You can find used ones on CL for less than $100.


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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

One upgrade for any saw is:if it has a single belt.......going with dbl belt/pulley and in some instances a triple,makes a noticable difference in smoothness.

And on a general note;the belts availible at an auto store these days ain't exactly of the best quality.For a slight $ increase you can go to a Grainger's(or any industrial supply joint)and get really good belts........and can still get them in "matched" sets when runnin dble/triple setups.

You'll see alot of folks recomending those pieced together(segmented) belts.....for smoothness.It's certainly a can of worms but,generally most just run matched regular belts.The segmented belts were an answer to certain equip(theres a metal turning Clausing lathe on loading dock as I type)that requires MAJOR stoppage time to replace belt(pulling spindles).So,a roll of segmented is a requirement to have in inventory......They have a tendancy to stretch,and with above lathe and others,theres no way to take up slack?Further,they'll make a mess of aluminum pulley's.Just sayin,BW


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

The rear end of the fence should be further away than the front to prevent the teeth from rubbing on the outfeed. Use the thickness of the marks on your ruler, it's not much. At the front, the inside edge of the 10" mark aligns with the miter slot, on the back end it aligns with the other side of the mark. 

There is nothing wrong with that Craftsman fence. It's not fancy but it works fine. Just check the alignment frequently, which should be done with any fence. I check my fences alignment every time I set them because there was a time I didn't.


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## auggy53 (Jul 13, 2011)

i have the same saw , maybe a few years older . i bought mine and a 4'' shaper for 50.00 . after cleaning them as you did i adjusted fence , checked it for square , mounted the motor ( with 40'' belt ) installed a new blade and started cutting . this little thing cuts 10 times better than the contractor saw i just bought last year . i just built an entertainment cabinet and cut all the small pieces on the little saw with no trouble .i think you have to remind yourself what saw you have . its pretty much limited to a bench saw . but i have to say i really like the one i have and its all original.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*Updates and questions..*

So, I have made a few more upgrades to the saw..see attached photos. With that, I have a few questions. First, a couple quick notes on the upgrades so far.

I took the idea of the cabinet from Shopnotes vol. 9 Iss. 50. I was able to find a large desk on CL for the free-free and thought I could convert it. I wanted to do some low-no cost as far as the base because it is temp based on the fact I will be moving within the next year and didnt want to spend to much money on the first one..anywho, just working off the plans, I made it work for my needs and limited space.

Made a zero clearance (thin kerf) insert and just made a dado insert today. What I really would like to do is extend the router over to the right side of the blade..now here comes the questions.

I have read many of the threads regarding this and of course I still have a few questions. 
Starting with a rail upgrade/fence upgrade. Where is a good place to purchase angle iron, u-channel, and things of that nature needed for building them? Any suggestions on methods without welding - I don't have access to a welder.
Secondly, router table top material. Melamine (sp?) seems to be a good choice. Just wonderding what thickness I should go with to allow maximum clearance for the router.

I appreciate any comments/suggestions you guys may offer. I know you all will not lead me wrong.

thanks - johnny


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## troyd1976 (Jul 26, 2011)

That old girl is looking great man, but is that a trick of the camara or is there enough tension on the motor its lifting the belt side?


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

troyd1976 said:


> That old girl is looking great man, but is that a trick of the camara or is there enough tension on the motor its lifting the belt side?


Actually, I think the mounts on the back are a little off, I just noticed it as well. Hadn't had any trouble cutting though. I will make the proper adjustments. thanks.

Johnny


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## troyd1976 (Jul 26, 2011)

good deal. and when/if budget allow's, you can get the delta t-2's from toolsplus.com, its a great upgrade on the emerson built craftsman's.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Really nice job getting that saw spruced up! :thumbsup:


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## Kenbo (Sep 16, 2008)

Quite the undertaking. Fantastic.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Ditch the fence!*

I struggled with that fence on my Craftsman saw(s) for too long.
Yeah, it works OK, but when you can get a self aligning fence like a T2 or Unifence or Biesemeyer I would.
I would also keep an eye out for another Craftsman saw on CL just for spare parts and to use the table as a right side extension...you can get one they are all 27" deep, for $100.00 or so. Then you can keep adding them on until they no longer will fit in your shop. 
Like this: 









Yeah, I know it's a bit much, but the last saw I picked up was a 12" motorized for $186.00, they are somewhat "rare" to find so I grabbed it. 10" saws are more common. 
You will want a nice outfeed table that you can "attach" or use as a work table. If it's on wheels with storage underneath that will solve the floor space issue. The newer hybrid saws have a flip up outfeed table that stays with the saw. You can make one easily, but allow slots for the miter gauge to travel in. You will want to support the right side as well. I have a bunch of cast iron grid extensions left over for all those saws, but I personally don't care for them. Things get stuck in the pockets and fall through onto the floor. PITA.
I also added a cast iron Bench Dog router table extension. That's sweet. You will want a separate fence for the router table or you will lose you settings when you switch from sawing/ripping to routing. 
I collect my saw dust from the bottom, but you will have to seal the back of yours with the motor out the back. There are solutions here that have done that if you search in DC threads.
Again the motor swings in an arc so there must be slots to accommodate the belt and support rods, Magnetic sign material can be used to cover the slots on the front when not needed for maximum dust collection. The table is also open in lots of places between the base which should be closed off for "optimum" DC, but I haven't done that.
Finally for optimum dust collection an overarm collector off the blade can be fashioned out of 2" PVC and man what a difference that makes. :thumbsup: It also keeps the dust from spitting back in your face. It's not safe to saw with your eyes shut...as a rule.:laughing:
Nice job so far, and keep thinking about new methods, but most of all follow this simple rule:
Never put your hands or fingers in direct line with the saw blade.
Yeah, when you are cutting long rips or plywood it's OK, but if you make it a mental habit, you be safer in the long run.  bill


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*agreed*



Kenbo said:


> Quite the undertaking. Fantastic.


Nice job. :thumbsup: bill


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## Clouseau (Mar 22, 2009)

As long as your motor doesn't bind when going through the full height adjustment, the 40" belt will work fine. Cogged belts are better that solid belts for transferring power, especiall y on smaller pulleys. Cman used to have an aluminum add-on router table. I think I gave $35 for mine on CL.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Hey all,

thanks for the comments. I am making good use of her now and only hope to continue with the improvements. I am measuring up for a detachable outfeed table based on the design provided in the article I mentioned, as well as the right side extension/router table.

Is aluminum angle a bad choice of support to use? I have seen these pre-drilled, but haven't seen any steel/iron pre-drilled off the shelf.

Johnny


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## dbhost (Jan 28, 2008)

You can build your own fence sure, but you may want to check to see if you can grab a Delta T2 fence, or a second hand Biese instead. A lot less work for well known fences... 

As far as a router table wing goes. Thinking low budget, go good quality cabinet grade ply (not the BORG stuff) and top it with hardboard or some sort of slick laminate for a smooth top. I used hardboard for mine and love it. Just make sure you use SOMETHING for a press if you have a large area. Mine came unglued in the middle because I didn't have it pressed all the way across. I ended up redoing it using 2x4's with a slight bow the other way as clamping cauls (Home Depot lumber is finally good for something!).

If you need more details on building one, let me know. I made a LOT of mistakes I can help you avoid...


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

dbhost said:


> You can build your own fence sure, but you may want to check to see if you can grab a Delta T2 fence, or a second hand Biese instead. A lot less work for well known fences...
> 
> As far as a router table wing goes. Thinking low budget, go good quality cabinet grade ply (not the BORG stuff) and top it with hardboard or some sort of slick laminate for a smooth top. I used hardboard for mine and love it. Just make sure you use SOMETHING for a press if you have a large area. Mine came unglued in the middle because I didn't have it pressed all the way across. I ended up redoing it using 2x4's with a slight bow the other way as clamping cauls (Home Depot lumber is finally good for something!).
> 
> If you need more details on building one, let me know. I made a LOT of mistakes I can help you avoid...


The T2 and Biese have been suggested, just haven't had any luck finding one in a budget range. I am an CL'er all day every day, just no luck yet which is why I thought about trying my hand at a homemade one if it isn't cost prohibitive. I know you don't want to go cheap on the fence however, funds are limited which is why I have been go about the whole setup this way.

I am sure I will throw some questions out there about the extension as well. I checked out you spot on lumberjocks. I am on that forum as well. 

thanks - johnny


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## Clouseau (Mar 22, 2009)

*Post a WTB*

I had to post a WTB on CL. They seldom just pop up.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*Angle Iron*

So I went to the local metal shop today to check out the prices for angle iron as I am really thinking about doing a fence and rail system myself. obviously, the cost varies, but something that concerned me was the cost for getting in drilled with holes for mounting.

I don't have a drill press (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/2540076924.html) such as this, but I am considering get one. anyone have any thoughts about drilling holes in angle iron?

johnny


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

Clouseau said:


> I had to post a WTB on CL. They seldom must pop up.


I never thought about doing that.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

abetrman said:


> anyone have any thoughts about drilling holes in angle iron?


 
A center punch, a sharp bit, and a drill... is what I've always used.

Depending on the size of the hole, I might pilot, with a smaller bit first :smile:


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

mdntrdr said:


> A center punch, a sharp bit, and a drill... is what I've always used.
> 
> Depending on the size of the hole, I might pilot, with a smaller bit first :smile:


Would you or anyone recommend against aluminum angle?


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

abetrman said:


> Would you or anyone recommend against aluminum angle?


 
I would recommend steel. :smile:


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

mdntrdr said:


> I would recommend steel. :smile:


I figured as much. Aluminum doesnt seem stong enough for this application. Just needed a second opinion.


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## abetrman (Mar 18, 2011)

*New Accessory for the TS*

I was trying to do it on my own, but taking the time doing it was keeping me from getting projects done soooo...


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## aaronlinder (Aug 13, 2012)

*top rejuvenation*

Hi. I was wondering how you got the rust off the top? Steel wool, sand paper? What did you use for the wax afterwards? How often do you have to rewax? i am thinking of buying a similar craftsman that needs a little tlc. you went with the delta t2 fence, right? how is that?


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## troyd1976 (Jul 26, 2011)

I like to use liquid wrench and a green scrubby pad with a random orbit sander. The T2 is a vast upgrade for most of those older Cman saws.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Canarywood said:


> In regard to your miter gauge's, if you intend to use this saw just throw them away and get yourself at least a v27 from this site.
> 
> http://www.woodpeck.com/miterv27.html


I don't believe that gauge will fit. That model TS has a slightly narrower miter gauge slot and standard gauges will not work.


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## Joeb41 (Jun 23, 2012)

wericha said:


> I don't believe that gauge will fit. That model TS has a slightly narrower miter gauge slot and standard gauges will not work.


I have that same saw and use a V-27 and a 1000 HD Incra and they work fine you just don't expand the adjusters.

Joe B.


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## wericha (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks, Joe.:thumbsup:

That is one of the few accessories that will fit older Craftsman saws. I built a lot of jigs and sleds for mine because of the slot size.

The up side was I did learn to build precision jigs!


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## jnahman (Jan 13, 2013)

I know this is a late response to the posted issue of fences. I own one of these antique saws. It burnt through wood even with a new blade. I didn't think much of the saw but I did not pay much. After reading on some site about someone who put a Vega fence on the same saw, stated that it was easy to mount with little alterations, I decided to try a new fence. What a difference. Instead of feeling like I was brutally sawing through the piece of wood, I now feel it is like cutting through butter. I highly recommend the Vega even though it is much more expensive than the saw. Well worth the money, safer and much more accurate.


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## jnahman (Jan 13, 2013)

BTW, I am in need of a blade guard. Anyone have any ideas where to find the original guard or a replacement that would work?
THanks
jaime


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

jnahman said:


> BTW, I am in need of a blade guard. Anyone have any ideas where to find the original guard or a replacement that would work?
> THanks
> jaime


Depending on the model, many of the Sears and Ridgid full size cast iron contractor saws with belt drive induction motors made by both Emerson and TTI/Ryobi share the same blade guard device. Craigslist, Ebay, Searspartsdirect.com or Ereplacementparts.com are all potential suppliers. You may even find a beat up old saw for parts.


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