# Table saw not cutting square.



## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

I have squared my saw many times going from the miter slot to blade and then from the blade to my fence with a large framing square and everything is lined up. I'm using the miter gauge with t track attached and just pushing it through the cut. My problem is after getting it close with circular saw I jointed one end clamped that end to the fence run it through turn and repeat but I keep getting about a 1/4" difference on one end.


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

Lupus said:


> I have squared my saw many times going from the miter slot to blade and then from the blade to my fence with a large framing square and everything is lined up. I'm using the miter gauge with t track attached and just pushing it through the cut. My problem is after getting it close with circular saw I jointed one end clamped that end to the fence run it through turn and repeat but I keep getting about a 1/4" difference on one end.
> 
> View attachment 28866


which end is off ?? Check the board when it come's off and see if it is on the first end of the last end thro the saw?? Than flip the board and run it thro and does it come out off the othe end 1/4 off ??Than see or measure the setting's again. Does this happen on every cut ??


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Have you actually checked the accuracy of your miter gauge? Just looking at the pic it seems like it could be off.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Yup*



sawdustfactory said:


> Have you actually checked the accuracy of your miter gauge? Just looking at the pic it seems like it could be off.


I don't quite understand that dog leg coming back on the T track thingy, but the miter gauge and or accessory bar must be "squared" to the blade.
I am assuming that the blade has been "squared" to the miter slot, a rather advanced adjustment requiring loosening the table or trunnions/arbor, depending on which saw you have. 

The blade gets squared to the miter slot first , then the fence gets squared to the slot, then you're all set for ripping.

For cross cutting the miter gauge must be square to the blade/miter slot. They are adjustable with screws and lock nuts.
 bill


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

Everything is squared up. This is right???


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

My first guess is the miter Gage not set to 90 degrees.
Tom


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

It dosent matter if the gauge is square to the blade starting off. If blade is not square to miter slot AND gauge square to blade the cut won't be square.

Is the miter gauge being used the same slot you aligned to blade to? They could be different.

Also, you should square the fence to the same slot as the blade instead of to the blade for better results.

Hope that helps

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

The blade must be parallel with the miter slot, depending on the saw, there are different ways to do this. Contractor type saws are notorious for slipping out of alignment. The miter bar has to fit tightly in the slot, no slop. You can peen and file the bar for a good fit. Flip the miter gauge over and check the screw where the head attaches to the bar, these are often loose. Make sure the work can't slip during the cut, sandpaper attached to the face of the miter head helps but a dull blade may still pull. Lay a straight edge against the blade and measure from that to the slot, it will exaggerate any minor discrepancy, compared to measuring just to the blade. The square you use has to actually be square, many are not. Don't back up past the blade after the forward cut. Try a different blade. If all these don't work, you may have some arbor run out or a bad bearing.


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

Ok I put a level against the blade and it's about a 1/4" out of square but I can't find where to adjust it theres 3 bolts in the back and 3 across the front but I don't see where their adjustable


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

Here's a pic of the three bolts(think you can only see two) from the under side. I loosened thes up and it doesnt seem to have a slot where it can be adjusted


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

Just read somewhere to adjust the top of the table. But now I've loosened the trunnion and beat it to try and move it over even though it wouldn't budge have I now created another problem


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

Lupus said:


> Just read somewhere to adjust the top of the table. But now I've loosened the trunnion and beat it to try and move it over even though it wouldn't budge have I now created another problem


sound's like they are the bolts for the top. they don't move. Go to this web site and it will show all about the set up with pictures and how to do the set up http://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/alignment.html


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Lupus said:


> Just read somewhere to adjust the top of the table. But now I've loosened the trunnion and beat it to try and move it over even though it wouldn't budge have I now created another problem


Are you sure you loosened all of the bolts on the trunion? The table won't move as opposed to the trunion as they should be bolted together. So adjusting the table is out.

If you can't adjust where trunion is bolted to the top then you might try adjusting the trunion itself. I can't tell from the picture but if it has two bars below the arbor than run front to back try loosening the nuts on the back and twisting it till the blade is square. Shims may be needed as well to keep it straight.

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

All I see is the three bolts in the back and the three across the front. I loosened all of them and have beat on it pretty hard. It isn't budging a bit. Where the bolt goes through the trunnion theirs no space for it to move. It's a tight fit. I'll take a pic.


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)




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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Try my other suggestion

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

It doesn't have bars all the way to the front their only on the motor mount


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

*hmm... can you snap a picture of that?*



Lupus said:


> It doesn't have bars all the way to the front their only on the motor mount


hmm... can you snap a picture of that?


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)




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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I looked over the whole post again, maybe I missed it... What's the brand and Model # and have you found a parts/service diagram for it?

I'm going to look it up if not and look at it because I'm missing something... It's a matter of not being able to see it all at once I think.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Trunnions have no play?*

Your saw has table mounted trunnions, which are the least friendly to adjust, but certainly possible.
If you remove the 2 end bolts leaving on the center bolt on each trunnion, it should be able to move slightly on those 2 center bolts. If not you gots'a problem.  The hole(s) need to be enlarged to allow the carriage to be located such that the blade is parallel to the miter slot. Make sure that the angle lock and blade height lock are snugged up or you will have additional slop to deal with. If you can line up the blade and then you can't get the remaining bolts back in, then shift the carriage forward or rearward and try again. There has to be enough slop/clearance in those holes to allow for adjustment. The star washers need to be free enough to allow for movement also. Tighten the 2 bolts a little at a time to avoid shifting and then recheck to make sure nothing has...shifted.  bill


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

It's a craftsman 315.228310. I looked online for the adjustment but can't find my model anywhere. I don't see any other way to adjust it. I think I'm just screwed.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

I just looked at the parts diagram 

I think you need a new saw :laughing::yes:

Seriously though, what Bill said is going to be about your only option. My concern though is that the mounting hols dont have a lot of meat around em to really enlarge the holes much. I would suggest that you take the trunion down and enlarge all of the holes a small amount at a time and try it. A little enlargement should make should collectively give you a bit of wiggle room. 

I wouldn't recommend trying to do this one hole at a time with is still attached as you may end up biting into the cast iron and then your 

good luck!


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

The whole assembly shold look a lot like the assemblies shown below. I'm not sure if it matters for alignment, but it might...there is a trunnion lock lever on the front panel just below the table. Did you loosen that?


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

Yeah I loosened it but it didn't help. Guess I'll try and bore the holes bigger. I knew I shouldn't have bought that saw had a bad feelin as soon as I saw it. Oh well


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Lupus said:


> I saw it.


Lol... It's not so bad, you'll be a pro at aligning table saws all said and done!:yes:

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

Well I've drilled about a 1/4" off the front three (it was off about a 1/4) and shifted it over but for some unknown reason it is still off about a 1/4"!! I don't get it, guess I'm going to tear it back down and drill somemore.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Lupus said:


> Well I've drilled about a 1/4" off the front three (it was off about a 1/4) and shifted it over but for some unknown reason it is still off about a 1/4"!! I don't get it, guess I'm going to tear it back down and drill somemore.


You might save yourself some time and aggravation and see if PALS will work on your particular saw.
*http://pixelsandsawdust.com/2010/06/02/pals™-finesses-contractor-saw-alignment-–-a-product-review/*












 







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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Lupus said:


> Well I've drilled about a 1/4" off the front three (it was off about a 1/4) and shifted it over but for some unknown reason it is still off about a 1/4"!! I don't get it, guess I'm going to tear it back down and drill somemore.


I don't have any more suggestions for you at the moment, but 1/4" seems huge to me. How do the actual trunnion brackets on each end look? (those are the half moon shaped pieces at each end with 3 holes that mount to the table)


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Lupus said:


> Well I've drilled about a 1/4" off the front three (it was off about a 1/4) and shifted it over but for some unknown reason it is still off about a 1/4"!! I don't get it, guess I'm going to tear it back down and drill somemore.


I suggest you slightly bore out all of the holes to aloe for some adjust on one side then opposite on otherwise... More movement with less compromise of structural integrity...

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Somethin's wrong*

Check out this thread:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/new-used-table-saw-restoration-cftsman-113-299040-a-27258/

If you want to save this saw and get it lined up, you probably have to turn it upside down on a low bench and see what's going on with the trunnion holes. I turned mine on it's back side or vertical so I could see the holes and measure the alignment at the same time. Can't find the photos. You should be able to leave the 2 center trunnion bolts in and be able to shift the whole assembly for alignment. A 1/4" off is a mile. The blade must be mounted on a clean arbor with clean washers and it must be clean itself. When you spin it by hand there should be no wobble. If the assembly won't move, just hang it by the top center bolt. Then look into the trunnion holes to see how they line up. They should show all the threads in the holes.
Another way is to remove the center bolt and hang it by the right and left top trunnion bolts and then look at the bottom trunnion to see what threads show. It can't be so far off that you can't get it lined up any better than 1/4"... 

As a quick and dirty blade to slot measuring tip, just clamp a straight 24" long 1 x 1, or a 1" x1" aluminum angle, right on the blade when it's full up. It will show you immediately which way to shift the assembly to get an equal measurement in front and in the rear of the blade to the miter slot.
let us know what happens.....  bill


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## Bob R (Sep 22, 2010)

From what i can see in the pic's it looks like a craftsman saw,you'll need a set of these to get it squared away.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2020591/PALS-Contractors-Table-Saw-Alignment-System.aspx


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Canarywood said:


> From what i can see in the pic's it looks like a craftsman saw,you'll need a set of these to get it squared away.
> 
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2020591/PALS-Contractors-Table-Saw-Alignment-System.aspx


Don't be concerned if nobody comments on your suggestion of PALS. They didn't when I suggested it in post #28.












 







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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

Thanks for all the help guys! I think I've got it close enough finally. I bored out the front and back and now im alot closer. I was guessing at it being a 1/4 because I don't trust my tape measure for something like this and the only other thing I've got is some kind of metric ruler Thingy I got (just for straight edge marking)a good price on at lowes . Im probably under 3/16 now. I'll have to get a true measurement tomorrow.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*that' ain't close enough...*

Maybe for landscaping, but not for woodworking. :laughing:
You need a steel scale with clear markings either etched or embossed. There's a new thread you need to visit. Here's a link I posted on it:
http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5/General-Woodworking/Trunnion-Alignment/td-p/111208  bill

see this one: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/delta-contractor-table-saw-problem-30060/


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

You're going to want to get it a lot closer than 3/16"...more like 1/100".


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm 2mm off. 68mm at the front and 70mm at the back. Is that still pretty bad?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Lupus said:


> I'm 2mm off. 68mm at the front and 70mm at the back. Is that still pretty bad?


Yeah... Still pretty bad for any serious ww'n... Are you having trouble moving it far enough still?

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh, and you ARE measuring from the miter slot, right?... Not the fence!

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Lupus (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm cutting out more from the holes than it seems to be moving. I'm measuring with a level against the blade over to miter slot.


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