# Cabinet Adjustable Shelf Standards



## scbunker (Jul 17, 2020)

Hello all.

I'm working on designing some built-in bookshelves. I'm planning on using shelf standards for the adjustable shelves; I'm looking at Knape and Vogt 255 Series Steel Standards. I do plan to rout out a stopped dado to inset them flush with the surface of the cabinet.

I'm wondering if any of you have any experience using these. I had a guy tell me that they're jinky (shelf standards generally, not Knape and Vogt specifically) and they never line up right. He also said they're ugly.

I'm not terribly worried about ugly. I can choose color and they'll be mostly hidden by the books and the face frames.

Just wondering if any of you have experience using these and can share your thoughts.

Thanks.

By the way: since I know someone will mention shelf pins: I really want the 1/2" adjustability. I've never seen shelf pin holes that close together, but I don't know that it would cause any problems to do so. I've also seen the holes ream out - especially for heavy items like books and after a few readjustments - or the pins not fit properly, especially after painting. But I don't have a lot of experience either way. Appreciate input.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

use to use that type bracket when i first started out, probably because my dad used them. they are very obvious and can be seen over the books. i've gone to mostly shelf angle brackets with 1/4" or 5mm hole for all my stuff. these get locked in with the shelf, i haven't had one wallow out the hole yet.










this drilling guide is a handy layout tool. hole spacing is 1.25" apart.


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

i'm in my office looking at all my bookshelves in here. slowly over the years they have fewer and fewer books on them and more nick nack stuff. i am a voracious reader, but most of my stuff is online now. i'm so use to reading on a tablet that i dread reading an actual book for all that manual page turning  same with the daily paper, i still subscribe but read on my tablet. all the kids room (gone kids) have empty book shelves in the rooms.

i'm not questioning your need for built in bookshelves, but maybe your future need for many of them


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

They work fine. Just be sure the factory ends are top or bottom and they will line up.

If the color matches close enough, I don't they are any less visible than pin holes.


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## scbunker (Jul 17, 2020)

Do you see any problem with putting the holes for the shelf pins a 1/2" spacing? I know I'd have to make my own template. Or maybe I can use of the 1.25" templates twice, staggered at 5/8"...

We have hundreds of books and neither of us like ebooks, so I don't anticipate our need for bookshelves to go away. Subsequent homeowners may struggle with filling up the shelves, but I'm not really concerned about that.


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## furnacefighter15 (Jun 21, 2020)

I personally prefer the pilasters. Shelf pins are fine too, but stay away from the plastic ones. Those are garbage.



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## furnacefighter15 (Jun 21, 2020)

scbunker said:


> Do you see any problem with putting the holes for the shelf pins a 1/2" spacing? I know I'd have to make my own template. Or maybe I can use of the 1.25" templates twice, staggered at 5/8"...
> 
> 
> 
> We have hundreds of books and neither of us like ebooks, so I don't anticipate our need for bookshelves to go away. Subsequent homeowners may struggle with filling up the shelves, but I'm not really concerned about that.


If you need that much adjustability, just use the pilasters. That many holes may weaken the structure, pending materials used and thickness.

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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm partial to standards. What we used in the early 80's. They just got cheaper with the pegs over the years...


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## Morogany (Feb 24, 2017)

The clips for the metal pilasters compress over time with heavy loads and can fall out. I much prefer 5mm drilled holes.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Morogany said:


> The clips for the metal pilasters compress over time with heavy loads and can fall out. I much prefer 5mm drilled holes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've never hear that unless it was overloaded in the woodshop...


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## Tony B (Jul 30, 2008)

Rebelwork said:


> I've never hear that unless it was overloaded in the woodshop...


Same here.


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## MaintenanceMan (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm making a tall bookshelf now for my daughter. Like most of my cabinet type projects I opt for 5mm pins. Ultimately it is cheaper. Just a scrap for a jig and some pins and your good to go. I find a stop collar for my drill bit to be handy, but in the past just marked the drill bit with a piece of tape at the correct depth. The standards are fine, but I think the pins are bit less unsightly and simpler and less expensive. I actually saved dozens of the standards from a demo a while back and have yet to use any of them. I just prefer shelf pins.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Morogany said:


> The clips for the metal pilasters compress over time with heavy loads and can fall out. I much prefer 5mm drilled holes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I used these on a floor to ceiling bookshelf I built 42 years ago. Have had zero problems. This bookshelf has heavy loads on some shelves. 



George


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

I vote for 1/4 inch or 5 mm holes and the pin brackets that @_Ogre recommended. They offer strong support and the shelf itself prevents the pin from coming out. They are simple, cheap, unobtrusive and effective. 

Choose whatever hole spacing you want and make a drill guide to match. The "standard" spacing these days is 32 mm.

I grew up with shelf standards on the walls of my bedroom and also in the bookcases. My parents loved them. I disliked them a lot. I would bump the bottom of a weak clip upwards while putting away a book on a shelf underneath, and the shelf above would tilt and dump its books on me. Yuck.


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

How many times has anyone ever adjusted a shelf after it was installed?

All those shelf pin holes.........LOL


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## furnacefighter15 (Jun 21, 2020)

DrRobert said:


> How many times has anyone ever adjusted a shelf after it was installed?
> 
> All those shelf pin holes.........LOL


Not too much on book shelves. Matter of fact, any book shelf Ive ever made was not adjustable. But those were all for myself or my wife. Before building them, I would take the largest books and the smallest books for reference, and built to suit.

But, pantry and kitchen cabinets, my wife changes those around at least once a year. 

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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

In the 80's we always installed in a dado and staples them in vs the nail. 

I think most have went on the cheap with holes and penny clips...


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

DrRobert said:


> How many times has anyone ever adjusted a shelf after it was installed?
> 
> All those shelf pin holes.........LOL



I have. When something is built to last many years you never know just what you are going to put on those shelves. I have lived in this house 43 years and things have changed many times.


George


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## gmercer_48083 (Apr 9, 2016)

I have used the shelf standard many times. I have found that the common error in installing is not using a vix self centering drill bit when installing them. Using a vix type bit will put the pilot hole dead center when installing the standards preventing the standard from changing position as the screw seats into the standard. Position the standard so you can read the numbers (upright). I like using shelf standards... the allow for more adjustment than any other method. The only down side I have had , is the stupefied looks I get at the hardware when I ask more clips for shelf standards. Seems only the old timers know what they are.


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## JayArr (Sep 18, 2018)

Do the pins with the L bracket on them shown earlier come in more than one size? 



If they came with a standard drop (1/4"?) and a longer L for a 3/4" drop you could drill holes at 1" spacing and vary the hardware to get 1/2" adjustability.


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## Bob Vaughan (Oct 29, 2008)

Your intuition is spot on about the KV255/256 shelf standards. I've been using them since the 1970s. They can't be beat for durability and strength. I even have a special staple gun that shoots them with 5/8" long narrow crown staples. That works best for the steel track. Aluminum track is sort of weak.

Go with the pin holes if you like the Wal-Mart/Ikea look.


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## scbunker (Jul 17, 2020)

@gmercer_48083:

You use screws to install them? The K&V standards come with nails. I'd rather use screws, as I don't like the feeling of banging on my work with a hammer. AND: I just installed some yesterday and the white paint on the nail heads chipped off. 

What screws do you use, exactly?


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## scbunker (Jul 17, 2020)

@Bob Vaughan:

Ah, so that's what those two little horizontal holes are for.

Can you share with me the products you use to staple?

How does the staple not protrude too much from the surface of the standard? Seems that would required the shelves to be cut a little shorter to avoid hitting the staples..


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## scbunker (Jul 17, 2020)

For those interested, here's a photo of a set of these that I just installed last night. This is not the project I was talking about in my original post. This is a smaller project - just a single cabinet. I had already ordered all the hardware for this project when I started this thread.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Turned out nice. In the cabinet shop we will run them full length to the bottom. Eliminates much thinking...


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## Bob Vaughan (Oct 29, 2008)

scbunker said:


> @Bob Vaughan:
> 
> Ah, so that's what those two little horizontal holes are for.
> 
> ...


While industrial air tools are made for that purpose, I made an indexing tongue for an old Senco KN4450 I had and use it. The staples countersink into the metal if the air is properly regulated and shelf length isn't effected. One has to be really gentle with aluminum track. Staples are much quicker than nails or screws and hold quite well, particularly if the staples are coated. Some care has to be taken when using the staple gun but for me its generally worth it.

I think screws would look nicer but finding the right length with a proper fitting head that won't lay proud of the shelf track has been a problem for me. I remember looking into it decades back and found that the special size screws made for shelf track came in 20 lb cartons per each finish color.


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## John Smith_inFL (Jul 4, 2018)

scbunker said:


> You use screws to install them? The K&V standards come with nails. I'd rather use screws, as I don't like the feeling of banging on my work with a hammer. AND: I just installed some yesterday and the white paint on the nail heads chipped off.
> What screws do you use, exactly?


Steven - to address the chipped paint on nail heads. after you finish the job,
put some matching paint in a spoon and dab some paint on the nail head
with a toothpick or Q-tip - whatever works. (even WhiteOut type correction fluid).

when a project comes along that requires a specific color of screw heads,
I find the screws either online or at the Box Store that fits the project.
put them in a small bottle with some acetone, agitate well, spread on paper to dry.
then, get a piece of cardboard, poke it full of holes with a sharp object,
put each screw into a hole, spray paint with the desired color and let dry.
I usually use plain ole RustOleum. (paint a few extra).
if you chip the paint during installation, use the same touch-up technique to fix it.









.


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