# Table Saw for Beginner



## lr.wimbo (Jul 30, 2009)

My father-in-law had a cabinet shop and taught me all I know about woodworking. I want to begin woodworking and I guess a table saw should be my first purchase. I have looked at the retailers, but I guess I should buy something that will last me 10-20 years. What do you guys suggest for a newbie who will be doing only "family" projects?


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I would recommend a hybrid*

For around $850 or so you get a motor inside the cabinet for better dust collection, a 2 HP motor, a large table and extensions and a reasonable fence. For $1125 you get a 3 HP motor, a great fence, either Biesemeyer or copy, a large cast iron table and it should last a lifetime. I can recommend Grizzly Industrial and own their shaper, bandsaw, and planer. But you are doing exactly the right thing by stating your requiremnents and expectations and asking questions. A table saw is a lifetime investment, make it once, make it right and you will not regret spending the extra money.:thumbsup:
www.grizzly.com 
G0478 2 HP Hybrid Cabinet Saw 





*10" Left-Tilt Cabinet Table Saw $1125.00 G1023SLW* 



*includes built in router table extension*


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

The other way to look at it is buy 2 used saws and build your own monster, Right Bill.:laughing::laughing:

No really thats some good advise he gave you.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

If you've got 220v available, those Griz cabinet saws are tough values to beat for an industrial grade 3hp saw. If not, the hybrid saws are the next best bet, whether from Griz, Jet, Steel City, Craftsman, GI, Shop Fox, etc.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

A lesson I learned a long time ago was to buy a tool bigger than you need at the moment. The type of table saw may be a guiding force, such as price, or space. 

I would stay on the lookout for a cabinet type saw with a long "T" square type fence. You may find a great deal on a slightly used Unisaw or Powermatic. Horsepower and electrical requirements may be other factors to consider. If you only have 110V-120V you are somewhat limited. If you get a deal on a 220V-240V machine, adding the circuit might be worthwhile.

OTOH, a good contractors saw (with the motor hangin' out the back), and a good fence may do whatever you care to do. But, keep in mind an appropriate blade for the particular task is paramount.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

lr.wimbo, you mention a time frame but not a price range. I tend to buy inexpensive tools compared to many of the folks here and often recommend them as opposed to things like the suggestion Bill gave. I'm sure that's a great saw, but I've never found that to be a "home use" level saw and certainly not what I consider a "home use" level price tag. I agree, in theory, that if you can afford it, bigger is better, especially in the power tool world, but for most people it's overkill. Just my opinion. 

That said, I've had $100 table saws that have easily lasted 10-15 years even with fairly rough use. They weren't pretty, and they were hand-me-downs to me (and then to other people after me) but they worked well enough to make clean straight cuts. Perhaps a little under powered for some of the more robust tasks I tried to get them to do, but those are not what I consider "home use" either.

Some more info about the projects you think you might want to do and your rough budget may help narrow down the field a bit more.

FrankP


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## lr.wimbo (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I guess my budget is $200-400 and I will have to stick with the 110 power in my garage for now. Should I consider Ebay or Craig's List or stick with a big box retailer? I'm in the Memphis, TN area. Are there any used equipment dealers near here?

What do you mean by a cabinet saw? What would be another option? What are the benefits of different options? Do I want a router extension? I really appreciate your expertise.


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## lr.wimbo (Jul 30, 2009)

One last question...What's a hybrid saw?


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

check places Sears or the Box stores for clearance items. My wife works at sears and I get allot of stuf on clearance. DeWalt Router w 3 bases $300 regular clearance $35. I just picked up the Craftsman professional 6 1/8 in Jointer reg $579 clearance $179 new in box. This saw was just on a good clearance sale not to long ago 5-27-09. Its a Hybrid

Anyone interested in this saw Sears at Mall of Louisiana has floor model for $300.00 and new in box $700.00, figured someone might want it since I don't need it.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Sears also just had some nice Hitachi and DeWalt job sit saws $600 Regular now $350


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

lr.wimbo said:


> One last question...What's a hybrid saw?



Here is a pretty simple definition.


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

lr.wimbo said:


> One last question...What's a hybrid saw?


Basically a hybrid is a full sized home duty saw that uses an internally mounted belt drive 110v induction motor, though many are convertable to 220v also. It's an evolution of the 60 year old design of the standard full size cast iron contractor saw that had a belt drive induction motor hanging out the back. There are several advantages to having the motor housed inside...it takes up less space, offers better dust collection, has a shorter drive belt (better power transfer, lower vibration), and has no "lifting hazard" when the motor is beveled...it can really throw off the alignment when the motor catches a bench. Just about every major manufacturer makes one now. 

Traditional full size contractor saw:
















Full size hybrid saw:


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## jeffreythree (Jan 9, 2008)

I feel an older saw is an excellent choice. I use an old Delta Homecraft model that was $250 on craigslist. If you outgrow it, you will probably get what you bought it for. They don't build small table saws as heavy duty as they used to.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

With that budget, I would be watching craigs list, and maybe post a wanted ad. I would look for an old 1960's or so, Craftsman saw. Usually $75 - $150 depending on condition, etc.
Then buy a Delta T2 fence for $150.
This would give you a very usable saw. Without the T2 it would get you by. The T or better fence would improve the saw 1000%
Most used saws can always be sold for what you paid for them, if you upgrade.
There are cabinet makers who still use these saws.


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## frankp (Oct 29, 2007)

lr.wimbo, absolutely look at CL and possibly eBay, especially if you can get a good tool to pick up. I'm more leary of eBay because it's much harder to see the tools before buying them.

I've bought a lot of my tools used and had hand-me-downs for my first two tablesaws. Look for some key features you think will be important to you (size, left tilt/right tilt, a good fence, hp, whatever) and that will help narrow down what you're looking for on any site, be it new or used equipment you're looking at. For $200-$400 you can get a very good quality saw used that would normally run closer to $1k.

Here's one to check out: http://memphis.craigslist.org/tls/1258264197.html


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## mike65072 (Apr 13, 2008)

I tend to view this a little differently. You can make most any "family projects" without a table saw. A table saw will likey be one of the most expensive tools you buy, why buy something you may or may not like based on other peoples opinions. Why not get into this hobby using the tools you have (or purchase a few hand power tools to do the projects you want). As you gain experience through doing various projects and reading up on all the different types of power tools, you will soon form your own opinions on what you need for your projects. In the mean time, you can be saving to buy the right tool for you when the time is right. Good luck, Mike


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## Danxt (Jul 13, 2009)

I somewhat agree with Mike...
My shop started off with very limited power tools:
A drill
An OLD black and decker router
and my first big purchase... a hypoid drive (worm drive) circular saw with a "trim" blade... along with some router bits, some home-made jigs and whatnot...
I made several projects with just these tools, and in the mean time started to figure out what I would REALLY want in some bench/stationary tools.


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## Danxt (Jul 13, 2009)

you know, I just kind of realized that I didn't really answer your question.
"what table saw to start with"
The Ridgid ts3660 is being discontinued, but has been regarded as a GREAT middle of the road table saw for many years. Depending on where you live, you may be able to find one at your local Home Depot on closeout. My local HD has a few in stock that they are selling for around $350.
Personally, this is the saw that I was dreaming about for a long time... then Ridgid came out with the R4511, and they priced it at only $50 more than what the ts3660 had been selling for. I had already saved up the $550 for the ts3660, and decided that $50 more wasn't that much for an enclosed cabinet with pretty good dust control, a 3/4 cabinet, and a motor that is inside the cabinet... along with cabinet mounted trunions (I can't remember now if the ts3660 had cabinet or table mounted trunions). The r4511 coincidentally also has a granite top... this is a factor that didn't really play into my decision, but now that I have it, I kind of like it.

I am sincerely hoping that this is my last table saw.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*The Table saw*

*The table saw is the "heart" of the shop* 
I started at age 18 with my High school graduation money and bought a Craftsman 10" Table saw.I think it was $200.00. (I already had a 8 1/4" Skilsaw, heavy as a cement block.) I just retired that table saw last year after 51 years of service.The saw had 3 different motors, 2 different stands. The point being, BUY THE BEST TOOL YOU CAN AFFORD, ONE TOOL AT A TIME. If you buy a cheap tool that gives poor results, and is difficult if not impossible to adjust properly, you will be frustrated not only with the tool, but with the work you produce with it. The argument will be made you don't need a shop full of tools to make things. True. Men have been using hand tools to make beautifully crafted furniture for centuries. These items were made by craftsmen in shops dedicated to that end. We now have technology that allows us to do 100 things otherwise impossible with computers, printers, CNC machines, Digicarves etc. What is it that you want to spend your time doing? Handcrafting things, or making things with power tools and getting the satisfaction of a job not only well done, but completed in a timely manner. That's your personal choice. This is a woodworking site, not a home improvement site, so you will be getting advice from those of us who work with wood either for a living/income or the pure joy of it, or both. The standards of work shown in the galleries/myphotos is unbelievable. You can certainly buy tools that will suffice for home improvement, (the kind sold at Lowes and Home Depot), and do just fine. You may at some point decide to upgrade to more quality brands. I will say this as others have said: "Pound for pound, Grizzly make the best tools at the best price" Used tools are always an option and may here have purchased used tools and restored them adding quality fences and dust collection boxes etc. You may find bargains but it will take time and effort, which you must be willing to invest, again that's your personal choice. So, by doing the research first and taking all this into account, you will benefit from all this sage advice!:laughing: bill 
__________________


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

I bought a Craftsman cabinet saw over a Grizzly simply because it was easier to get. The nearest Grizzly store is 100 miles from here. If I ordered a Grizzly, it had to be freighted on a semi. They told me a truck would show up in front of my house and I would have 15 min to find enough people to unload an 800 lb saw. With Sears, I drove my old pu one mile to the store and they loaded it. As it turned out, I am very happy with the Craftsman.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Hey Rusty*

I like my Craftsman saw model 22124. I had to pick mine up at the store as well. It took 6 guys standing around trying to figure out how to load it until I came up with the idea of turning face down on the tables and sliding it into the truck (with the topper or cap on) so it wouldn't fall over and that's the only way it would fit. How much did your saw weigh and how did you get it out of the truck by yourself? Mine was about 400 lbs , maybe 360 lbs, still plenty heavy, for me and my son. 
FYI, I've gotten heavy tools from Grizzly and they do offer lift gate service for $32.00 extra, well worth it, so I wouldn't let that stop me if A Griz was what I wanted. I just picked up a Grizzly 921 lb, 20" planer so I'm pretty used to moving heavy tools, with a little help from my son ...heh...heh.. I think they make a fine machine and would recommend them for the price and quality. :thumbsup: bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

woodnthings said:


> ....How much did your saw weigh and how did you get it out of the truck by yourself? Mine was about 400 lbs , maybe 360 lbs, still plenty heavy, for me and my son.
> ...


IIRC, my 22124 was 407# on the crate without the fence. With fence, minus the crate, Sears used to show it as 425# total....nice and solid! Mine came with free delivery. :thumbsup: I watched two guys lift it with a single strap that Y-ed out into a shoulder harness on each end. They walked it down a ramp with it teetering on that single strap!


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*We did everything to make it lighter...*

..except take the blade out! :laughing: And that Biesemeyer fence weighs more than a medium sized dog. It's just a great saw and I had to buy it, if you recall my earlier post...$486.00 steal of a deal! :yes: bill


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

$486! Ya darn near got a free saw with your Biesemeyer fence! :thumbsup:


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I knew I got a deal on the fence*

They just threw in the saw for $80.00!
And a $50.00 blade, German made.
Saw is now down to $30.00



knotscott said:


> $486! Ya darn near got a free saw with your Biesemeyer fence! :thumbsup:


You must have missed the post on the 75 mph drive to the store on Easter Sun morning, since it was a closeout they couldn't hold it.:no: bill


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

My saw weighed over 700 lbs. It has the cast iron extensions. It was on a pallet. We were able to slide it into my pu. I built a temporary ramp to slide it out of the truck into the shop. When I got it out and all together it was on it's side and I could not set it up. My stepson came over and just set it up. He's about 6'8" and 280. It semed easy for him. Hope I never have to move it.


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## Gerry KIERNAN (Apr 20, 2007)

If you're just starting out, on a limited budget, look for a decent used table saw. In the last year I picked up an old Rockwell Beaver nine inch tablesaw for $50 at a garage sale. The guy was moving out of town, and didn't want to deal with moving it. It came with a one hp motor, a rip fence, a miter gauge, and an assortment of nine blades, including a wobble dado. Is this a top of the line saw? Of course not. Does it work well? You Betcha! 

This type of deal, which isn't all that uncommon, is perfect for somone starting out. It also makes an excellent light duty second saw for someone[like me] who doesn't want to be changing blades constantly.

If you start out with something like this you can list all the features that you woukld like to have in your next saw, as you go along, so that when the tme is right, and the money is available, you can make an intelligent choice for your big saw.

Good luck saw hunting.

Gerry


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

The first table saw I had was a $200 Craftsman contractors saw. It was ok for rough work, but not much good for a woodworking shop.


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## Conner (Sep 14, 2008)

When I bought my table saw I was in a similar price range. I found a Delta 34-444 contractor's saw and I've been very happy with it. Over time you can add upgrades like cast iron wings, a link belt, and build an outfeed and side tables as big as you want and the sky will be the limit on the kinds of projects you can undertake. My saw was made in the early 90s in the US before Delta started building tools overseas.


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## ron9876 (Jun 1, 2009)

I recently bought a Ridgid 3660. Wanted a hybrid saw but momma wouldn't budge. I am very satisfied with the saw. After some adjustments it cuts great and has a decent fence. I looked for a long time for a used saw but it seemed any saw I was interested in ended up costing too much compared to a new saw.

I wouldn't recommend just buying what you can afford at the time no matter what. I have a jointer that I never use. It has a punched metal fence. I can't get it square enough to make a quality cut. I strongly recommend buying tools with cast iron tables and quality fences. The bells and whistles don't help out much if you can't get your tool adjusted so that it will make an accurate cut.


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## Pirate (Jul 23, 2009)

I say you should buy what you can afford, but don't buy a pos.
Since I had my first house, I've had some kind of tablesaw. 
The first was a used Craftsman 10" ts. I bought for about $100. It got me by for quite a few years.
If I had waited until I could afford a much higher quality saw, like most of us enjoy using, I wouldn't have been making any sawdust for quite a while. I also wouldn't have been able to buy the other tools, I was able to buy with the money saved on the 10CM saw.
If I had, lets say $1000 to spend on tools and didn't expect to have any more to spend for at least a few years, I would rather have the following used tools, rather than a new $1200 cabinet saw.
Craftsman ts $100 - $150
Drill press $125
Jointer $250
Band saw $250
Radial armsaw $150
A bunch of clamps $100

With decent quality old tools, you can always upgrade and get most if not all of the money back that you spent on the tools.

Hey, today, I wouldn't buy a car without power windows, mirrors and cruise control. If I didn't have the money for them, I wouldn't go without a car!


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## cojon (Aug 8, 2009)

I see many folks recommending quality saws. That's reasonable if you have the room, the need, and the bucks. Some of us have done incredible things with used $20 table top saws. As a shipwright on a boat in the sea of Cortes, I built in an entire galley of gorgeous Mexican Cocobolo that arrived in horrid shape. looked like it was resawn by a team of Mexican 5th graders using homemade chainsaws. Seriously bad. However, with only a few tools I made a complex and perfectly fitted galley in a large classic wooden sailboat. That job paid me $9,000 beyond cost and the owner tipped me ten large. Not bad for only three power tools. It's not so much the quality of the tools that determine the job but the determination, skill and patience of the craftsman. Additionally, one becomes more adept and develops a greater appreciation of themselves when the tools are less than the best. 

Do not feel you need to spend $5,000 to make a door you could buy used in good shape for $50 bucks. I still have that old Sears aluminum table top 10" table saw. I've put in a belt drive motor using pillow blocks and installed an 8" wheel of 1/4" steel, turning it into a reasonable sander. 

Use your mind, not necessarily your pocketbook.


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Sounds like you have a high level of skills*

It would be great if you could post some pictures of your tools and even some of your work if possible. As a former automotive sculptor, there are no straight lines in the car designs either, so I can identify with that. Everything is on a sweep or some form of radius or an accelerating curve. Looking forward to some pictures, and it's great to have you on board so to speak!:boat: :laughing: bill


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## cojon (Aug 8, 2009)

*Sorry, very few photos*



woodnthings said:


> It would be great if you could post some pictures of your tools and even some of your work if possible.
> 
> Hi Woodnthings,
> 
> ...


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## ScottyB (Mar 1, 2009)

I really enjoy using my 70 year old Table saw/jointer that I found on Craigslist. It took three of us to load and unload it and was a real challenge to move. I just picked up a Shopfox mobile base for it and hope to be able to get that under the saw today. Since I don't have a big shop with large tools in permenent places I find it useful to have mobility even if it only has to move twice a year.


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## satterfield.ben (Aug 31, 2009)

I just wanted to say thanks for you guys giving advice. I'm in the market right now to buy a table saw. I've been reading reviews on anything I can find. My local Craigslist has a couple. A 10in 3.0 HP Craftsmen on a stand for $200. He's calling it a contractor saw and said he almost paid $400 for it new. When I go to Craftsman.com I can find something that sorta looks similar for $249. The legs are different though.

http://lynchburg.craigslist.org/tls/1355109104.html

And then there is a Grizzly G1023Z for $700, but I don't have that much money. http://roanoke.craigslist.org/tls/1354245561.html

Looks like I'll keep looking, unless you guys tell me those are good deals.


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## Danxt (Jul 13, 2009)

well it appears your craftsman is gone now... but I wouldn't feel too heartbroken about it.
Just keep watching... eventually you'll see something really good.
In the past month, i've seen more than Unisaw come up in my area for around $600. One had a Beisemeyer fence and table extensions and was all on a mobile base!

I'm not saying that Crafstman tools aren't worth having... I have a few myself. But it all depends on your budget and what kind of work you plan to do.

Keep your eyes open and be patient... if you can't do that, then I would recommend buying something new that you can have confidence in, and could return if it's not what you expected.


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## John in Tennessee (Jun 11, 2008)

*Look on craigslist and the used market..*

A few years won't hurt a quality tool. When you buy something 3 times your going in the hole. Buy it right the 1st time.


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## satterfield.ben (Aug 31, 2009)

Yeah that Craftsman went quick. Guess somebody thought it was a good deal. I didn't have the money on hand anyway. But my co-worker did tell me he would buy my weight lifting bench and weights for $200. So that is a start of building up some cash so when I do see Ms. Right on the craigslist I can act on it.

As for me and my needs. I don't have preference yet. I know that a bench top isn't want I want. I understand that Cast Iron tops are good. Motors that are belt driven are good. Don't worry about surface rust. Look for saws that I can make adjustments in case the "precision" is off.

Any other advice. So that when I'm walking through a yard sale I can tell what is a good buy?


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## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

satterfield.ben said:


> ...Any other advice. So that when I'm walking through a yard sale I can tell what is a good buy?


Standard full size cast iron contractor saws, hybrids, and cabinet saws tend to be 27" deep. You might want check that out, as there are a few saws with odd depths out there....not a deal breaker, but improves the odds that aftermarket fences, wings, etc., will fit.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Why? Thread is 11 years old..


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## B Coll (Nov 2, 2019)

lr.wimbo said:


> My father-in-law had a cabinet shop and taught me all I know about woodworking. I want to begin woodworking and I guess a table saw should be my first purchase. I have looked at the retailers, but I guess I should buy something that will last me 10-20 years. What do you guys suggest for a newbie who will be doing only "family" projects?


I would keep my eyes open for a good used machine. I have seen Delta/Rockwell 3 hp Unisaws go for around $500 in good shape. I would take one of those over a new saw any day of the week. Older General Machine, Powermatic, even used Jet Machinery which is owned by Powermatic. I like cabinet saws as they can be tweaked to perfection. Not so with contractor saws.


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

There getting harder to find for $500 unless there been sitting around a long time..

This saw is in Lee's Summit, Missouri







20 miles from me . He wants $2500... my guess is he's way way too high and figures someone will try to play the price down and he will still make money.. my offer would be $700-$800...


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Not sure about the Memphis market, but anywhere close to the Carolinas and you'll find all kinds of decent saws on CL fairly regularly. N Carolina has been a big furniture making area for many years. My regret is that when I bought my saw used I didn't wait awhile for a better deal, but I have put together a pretty decent saw with small improvements over the years and mine is just an old Craftsman slotted aluminum top model with a pretty decent upgrade fence . I plan to trade up soon, but I have to time it right since I don't have anywhere to store one saw while I use a new (used) saw.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

Rebelwork said:


> There getting harder to find for $500 unless there been sitting around a long time..
> 
> This saw is in Lee's Summit, Missouri
> View attachment 420267
> 20 miles from me . He wants $2500... my guess is he's way way too high and figures someone will try to play the price down and he will still make money.. my offer would be $700-$800...


I see a lot of those around here..people who list the price way up there hoping someone will fork over the big bucks right from jump..


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

My saw was bought new in 2001. Delta Right tilt, 3hp with mobile base $1600 from Baer supply...


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## [email protected] (Sep 8, 2019)

lr.wimbo said:


> My father-in-law had a cabinet shop and taught me all I know about woodworking. I want to begin woodworking and I guess a table saw should be my first purchase. I have looked at the retailers, but I guess I should buy something that will last me 10-20 years. What do you guys suggest for a newbie who will be doing only "family" projects?


I would highly recommend a PCS 1.75 SawStop. The quality and customer service is absolutely the best. And you get the added safety features as well. An example of the level of service they gave me I was experiencing an annoying bug within the first 2 months of owning it and after trying to get it resolved trouble shooting via phone and emails with me unsuccessfully they actually sent a service tech to my house (60 miles from Vegas) to fix it. It has been flawless since.


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## Tool Agnostic (Aug 13, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> I would highly recommend a PCS 1.75 SawStop. ...


The sentiment and recommendation are admirable, but you are responding to a post that is 11 years old. By now, they have solved their problem or moved on. Lesson learned: Check the date of the post first, before you quote and respond. By the way, we are all guilty of the same oops. DAMHIK.


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## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

You mean that nobody would keep checking back for a 11 year old post just to see if someone might have decided to help 11 years later? I keep a steady running bookmark file for just that very reason. You know.."Where can I find a .15999/.16000" nail? Do they make em in metric?"


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## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

Remember not everyone who gets into woodworking stay into woodworking.. I would be interested in knowing how many registered woodworks actually still woodwork today.

I like it when it shows who's online on the forum currently...How many registered and unregistered...


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