# Mortise in Slab Legs



## MarkWilliams (Jun 6, 2017)

Hello, I am building a coffee table with slab legs. I am putting a beam between the legs, just under the table top for support and am looking to purchase a drill press to drill the mortises. I'm just starting out and am not at the point where I am comfortable doing mortises by hand. 

Since the mortise will extend upwards of 8 inches down, will my the average drill press table be deep enough to drill the entire mortise? It will look something like the picture below. I would just feel goofy, getting a drill press and finding it can only do 3/4 of the mortise or something silly.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*drill presses come in sizes ...12", ...15"...20"*

That means :
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/how-drill-presses-measured-14892/

So, your new drill press would need to be quite large, and not worth it at this point. You could drill into the exact corners of the slab at the outer dimensions of your tenon using a 3/16" dia or 1/4" dia, 4" long bit to penetrate all the way through. Then connect the outside corners and using a 1" or larger Forsnter bit in a hand drill,"hog" away the material inside the lines, from either side. It will take some time, but you can do this! Then clean up all the surfaces with a very sharp chisel.

Kinda like this:


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

MarkWilliams said:


> Hello, I am building a coffee table with slab legs. I am putting a beam between the legs, just under the table top for support and am looking to purchase a drill press to drill the mortises. I'm just starting out and am not at the point where I am comfortable doing mortises by hand.
> 
> Since the mortise will extend upwards of 8 inches down, will my the average drill press table be deep enough to drill the entire mortise? It will look something like the picture below. I would just feel goofy, getting a drill press and finding it can only do 3/4 of the mortise or something silly.


I do a lot of these at work and find routing these out is easier if you have this....


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Rebelwork said:


> I do a lot of these at work and find routing these out is easier if you have this....


Beat me to it, I was going to suggest that a router would be a much better tool for this.just make a template the right size and you're off to the races. Square up the corners with a chisel, or just round over the corners on the tenon to match


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*A router won't work in this case...*

The end slab appears to be 3" to 4" thick. Show me a router that will rout a 3" deep hole ..... A saber saw/ jig saw would clean out most of the material, then it's time to start chiseling, paring and clean up.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> The end slab appears to be 3" to 4" thick. Show me a router that will rout a 3" deep hole ..... A saber saw/ jig saw would clean out most of the material, then it's time to start chiseling, paring and clean up.


The leg looks to be no more than 8/4. Wouldn't matter anyway, there are two sides...

I'm still looking for an apprentice at work if your interested


----------



## Kerrys (May 2, 2016)

Rebelwork said:


> The leg looks to be no more than 8/4. Wouldn't matter anyway, there are two sides...
> 
> I'm still looking for an apprentice at work if your interested


Apparently you didn't read the original post. The pic is an example and not of the op's project. His question was on how to accomplish an 8 inch deep mortise.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Not the way I read it ...*



MarkWilliams said:


> Hello, ......
> *
> Since the mortise will extend upwards of 8 inches down*, *will my the average drill press table be deep enough* to drill the entire mortise? It will look something like the picture below. I would just feel goofy, getting a drill press and finding it can only do 3/4 of the mortise or something silly.





Kerrys said:


> Apparently you didn't read the original post. The pic is an example and not of the op's project. His question was on how to *accomplish an 8 inch dee*p mortise.


Nope. "Deep" was referring to the throat depth, not the mortise.

The lowest portion of the mortise will be "down 8" or more from the top edge which led to the OP's question...what size drill press do I need? It was about the size of the drill press, not how to make the mortise. I stated it would require a very large DP to have enough throat to reach 8" or more from the edge.... a 20" or so, and thus $$$ expensive.


----------



## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Hi Mark,

I will see if I can perhaps offer some insight from somebody that at this point has probably cut over a million (literally) mortises at this point in the game...since just today we probably cut over 40 from very large to small ones...



MarkWilliams said:


> I'm just starting out and am not at the point where I am comfortable doing mortises by hand.


I can say from teaching this skill set to a fair amount of students now it probably isn't wise to..."think"...that cutting a mortise with power tools is any easier (or more accurate) than simply chopping them out with a Chisel and Mallet...especially for a beginner to both power and/or hand tools...So with that said, I'm not sure a Drill Press is the tool I would ever recommend for such work...???



MarkWilliams said:


> Since the mortise will extend upwards of 8 inches down, will my the average drill press table be deep enough to drill the entire mortise?


Now you have me at a bit of a disadvantage and/or state of confusion...???...haha

The photo depicts a rather nice Slab Wood Bench/Stool design. A style I have used in classes in Green Woodworking a fair amount of times. This type of furniture would never have a mortis over 200 mm (~8") deep since that is more a structural mortise found in Timber Framing (another subject of great enjoyment...haha)

So, the deepest mortise you are possibly looking at is maybe 100mm (~4") at the most extreme...Maybe for something really massive 150mm (~6".) The average Slab Wood furniture piece like this is going to have a Mortise about 30mm to 50mm deep only...

Please clarify your mortise depth and/or give an exact photo or illustration of your goals if you can?

Did you mean a mortise 200mm (8") long...???

How Wide...???

What material...???




MarkWilliams said:


> It will look something like the picture below. I would just feel goofy, getting a drill press and finding it can only do 3/4 of the mortise or something silly.


No need to feel Goofy...haha...You were smart enough to ask first...!!!...Good for you!


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

woodnthings said:


> The end slab appears to be 3" to 4" thick. Show me a router that will rout a 3" deep hole ..... A saber saw/ jig saw would clean out most of the material, then it's time to start chiseling, paring and clean up.


https://bis-amanatool.com/45477-ama...kfZcYIu4HaAKy1SzT1IIiPxyz4p-wv0L3fhoCBYrw_wcB


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*I knew about 3" long bits...*

What he would need in addition is a very hefty Router $$$, a pattern, the guide bushings you posted, about $20.00 and the $53.00 bit. I just don't think a guy just starting out would go to that extent to make 2 mortises, but I may be wrong....?

You and I would have all that on hand, so no big deal for us. I might even use my 20" Jet drill press and a 2" Forstner bit... or my 701 Powermatic hollow chisel mortiser .... or my Robert Sorby 1 1/2" mortising chisel .... :wink2:


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

I've snapped a few doing 8/4 and 12/4 radius tables. They can get away from the most experienced professionals...


----------



## Kerrys (May 2, 2016)

woodnthings said:


> Nope. "Deep" was referring to the throat depth, not the mortise.


Whoops, guess I didn't read it either.


----------



## allpurpose (Mar 24, 2016)

There is always the option of practicing your chiseling skills on some other piece of wood that can be tossed out later. In other words get good with scraps until you feel confident with your prized pieces of material. 
I recall doing just that before I began construction on my bench. I used an old 2x4 I chopped about 6 mortises into and had one tenon on the end of another. The first few were horrible, but it got better and by the time of the last one I figured it out and the rest went pretty smooth. 
That's not to say that a few of the mortises on my bench don't look like they were cut with a shotgun, but they're still holding strong several years later.
Come to think about it I believe that 2x4 still exist somewhere in my shop. Every now and then when I get really cleany ambitious I run across it. It's just one of those things I've hung onto just to reminisce about the good old days of my own experimental phase of life..Sorry, no self sexual gratification stories here.. lol


----------



## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

woodnthings said:


> The end slab appears to be 3" to 4" thick. Show me a router that will rout a 3" deep hole ..... A saber saw/ jig saw would clean out most of the material, then it's time to start chiseling, paring and clean up.


I made my answer responding to the information given, as I'm sure Rebel did as well. As has already been pointed out, the photo shown was an example of a similar project, not the one the OP is working on. For 4/4, 8/4 or even 12/4, a router would work fine, its not like routing from both sides is that big of a problem.

And as far as the cost goes, given that the original question of the thread was about buying a drill press, I get the feeling that suggestion the OP buy a router instead isn't quite as out there as your costs make it seem. After all, a $100 router, $20 bushing set and $53 bit isn't any more expensive than a $150 drill press with a $50 set of forestner bits


----------



## Jig_saw (May 17, 2015)

I make deep, through mortises with a drill and a jig saw. I have a 'heavy duty' drill for this purpose:


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*Here's what I said in the second post:*



woodnthings said:


> That means :
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/how-drill-presses-measured-14892/
> 
> *So, your new drill press would need to be quite large, and not worth it at this point.* You could drill into the exact corners of the slab at the outer dimensions of your tenon using a 3/16" dia or 1/4" dia, 4" long bit to penetrate all the way through. Then connect the outside corners and* using a 1" or larger Forsnter bit in a hand drill,"hog" away the material inside the lines, from either side. *It will take some time, but you can do this!* Then clean up all the surfaces with a very sharp chisel.*


No new router, no new drill press, one sharp chisel, one new Forstner bit from either/both sides.....:|

For a guy just starting out, that's a minimum expense.

I also suggested a jig saw in another post. This is also an inexpensive method, just requires a longer blade at most.

Material thickness is yet to be determined, and cannot be assumed.

OP has made 2 posts this far. :surprise2: Tools on hand have yet to be determined also.


----------



## MarkWilliams (Jun 6, 2017)

From what I am seeing I think I am going to snag myself a solid set of chisels and just get good at carving out mortises. No need to try to get fancy with power tools if I can just get good at doing them by hand!


----------



## Toolman50 (Mar 22, 2015)

Mark,
You did not say what tools you now have on hand. We only know you'd like a drill press. 
If you have a hand held jig saw or scroll saw, you can drill only one hole and cut to your lines for the mortise. Square your lines with a rasp and file. You only have two of these to cut, therefore you may want to avoid buying new tools for this one project. Just a thought.


----------



## Terry Q (Jul 28, 2016)

MarkWilliams said:


> From what I am seeing I think I am going to snag myself a solid set of chisels and just get good at carving out mortises. No need to try to get fancy with power tools if I can just get good at doing them by hand!




Consider mortise chisels for your mortises, they tend to be thicker and longer. These are in addition to bench chisels that you'll need for general work. 

Also, get familiar with various sharpening methods. There are many ways from inexpensive, using sandpaper on a piece of glass; moderate cost, using diamond plates or water stones with or without jigs; to expensive Tormek systems with jigs for sharpening all kinds of tools. But you won't get good results from chisels without learning how to sharpen them, especially when manufactures of chisels expect you to finish sharpening new chisels before using them. 


Enjoy yourself, life is short


----------



## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

MarkWilliams said:


> From what I am seeing I think I am going to snag myself a solid set of chisels and just get good at carving out mortises. No need to try to get fancy with power tools if I can just get good at doing them by hand!


Excellent choice Mark!

Just a little reading and "listening" to the Chisel and the Wood itself will teach much. As others have suggested, this will require learning how to sharpen and getting a sharpening system setup that works for you...

This type of furniture is fundamentally what is the "Folk Arts" and have been servicing our furniture needs for millenia. The tooling is the most basic and perhaps the most elegant...

Good Luck!


----------



## Brian(J) (Feb 22, 2016)

Jay C. White Cloud said:


> Excellent choice Mark!
> 
> Just a little reading and "listening" to the Chisel and the Wood itself will teach much. As others have suggested, this will require learning how to sharpen and getting a sharpening system setup that works for you...
> 
> ...


I usually use a template guide (post #3) and I've worked out a system for making dead accurate templates very quickly. I use my little router because it's quieter and has good dust/chip collection and you can do a lot more with a little router than you would think. I don't think, for many of us, that chopping this out by hand would be quicker at all than using my template system. I also think there is a lot less risk when you clamp a template to the work. When you've spent a lot of time on a project and the next to last step is inlaying hardware or cutting a mortise the risk of a mistake is a factor.
That said, for what you are making, I would do it by hand no question. Because JC has it- there is an emotional response to this object that says 'handmade'. It just wouldn't feel right to me to make this with a router and it wouldn't feel as good (to me) using it/owning it either. The router would get you a perfect result and I don't think perfect is really the goal here.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

"The router would get you a perfect result and I don't think perfect is really the goal here."

Really? I take it you don't do this for a living...


----------



## Brian(J) (Feb 22, 2016)

Rebelwork said:


> "The router would get you a perfect result and I don't think perfect is really the goal here."
> 
> Really? I take it you don't do this for a living...


No, I don't, although so far this year my shop has generated about $20K in profit on sales of a little over $50K. Much of that was metal work/milling but the table saw is a big player as well. I tend to work to a very high standard but the piece in discussion has a rusticity that, in my opinion, would not be enhanced by a machined and perfect and perfect look. Only my opinion of course and I understand others will differ, which is great. There's room for everyone.


----------



## Rebelwork (Jan 15, 2012)

@;


Brian(J) said:


> No, I don't, although so far this year my shop has generated about $20K in profit on sales of a little over $50K. Much of that was metal work/milling but the table saw is a big player as well. I tend to work to a very high standard but the piece in discussion has a rusticity that, in my opinion, would not be enhanced by a machined and perfect and perfect look. Only my opinion of course and I understand others will differ, which is great. There's room for everyone.


You should always have a standard of quality.,,,


----------



## 35015 (Nov 24, 2012)

Brian(J) said:


> I don't think, for many of us, that chopping this out by hand would be quicker at all than using my template system.


That is strictly an opinion Brian, and has academic perspectives for both system that could be legitimately discussed...of that I would most certainly agree. Nevertheless, when it comes to "mortise cut" both now and throughout history, the most elegant, enduring and versatile ones are still (and probably always will be) cut by hand...that is coming from a historical and global perspective of "mortises cut in wood."

For a person new to woodworking, it is both a vital skill to embrace and learn thoroughly before all others...or...your not a woodworker yet rather a "machinist of wood." If that is the path selected, then that is the way of it...neither good nor bad...right or wrong. I too "machine wood" most every day...including many if not most of my mortises now to stay vital and current in speed within a competitive market...We still "chop" many by hand nonetheless, and all joints get hand tooled to completion...



Brian(J) said:


> I also think there is a lot less risk when you clamp a template to the work...


Risk of what...???

I know of WAY MORE!!! injuries and damage to projects from routers (both professional and amature) than with hand tools...including (but not limited too) torn tendons, removed digits, broken bones and destroy material...

That isn't open to opinion...That is just a simple statistical reality...All major injuries and material losses in our shop (and any I know of) do not ever occur with hand tools compared to power tools...especially routers...and hideous power hand planers, which I despise but have to use all the time including massive 300mm handheld power planers are the worst. Not to mention the toil of wrestling something like a 3.5 horse Router (as little ones don't cut ti for a lot of projects) even in a template...So...FORGET [email protected]##!! it these days...ha,ha...I leave that to the younger folk around...and wish I could for those giant ass planners too as well, but they are just too freaking dangerous in the hands of "Knobs and Pilgrims."



Brian(J) said:


> When you've spent a lot of time on a project and the next to last step is inlaying hardware or cutting a mortise the risk of a mistake is a factor.


Could not agree more with that statement...and...precisely why...ALL!!!...critical work is only...hand work...(for the most part) and especially for beginners and those building their skill sets up within the craft...Machines just can match a well trained eye and the skills behind them...



Brian(J) said:


> I don't think perfect is really the goal here.


I think to this...???...I would have to say what I have said for years to students, as it was said to me years ago from withing several craft disciplines from ceramics to textiles and blacksmithing to stonework and beyond...

"Perfection is a state of mind...not a state of existence."

If of we speak is "precision" of that I am sorry I must not agree...

In wood (as it is in many materials) a well trained and heeled human hand and eye can meet or match (and often exceed) a machine every day...and all day...and has been this way since the beginning of the industrial revolution when all aspects and honest comparative analysis is done of...ALL...aspects of a project and the "big picture" of the craft we call woodworking...Though this is not to discount or disregard some aspects which have strictly become..."wood machining."

With that said, and a nod to what you (et al) do with the template and router, I too do much of my mortising for certain projects with a Festool Domino 700, Mafel Chain Mortiser/Sloter, or related tool...so I'm not an absolute purest, as I do see value in machines where applicable...especially from a professional production perspective or when trying to facilitate a product price margin while still having solid elements of traditional work to give a client (and the work) the best I can for the money spent...while stile generating an arloom quality piece....


----------



## MarkWilliams (Jun 6, 2017)

Ya, I'm currently just getting started so I am limited to a table-saw, mitre saw, skill saw and cheap basic hand tools.


----------



## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*how about a jig saw?*

In my post at the very beginning of this, I suggested you could remove a whole lot of the waste material by drilling a hole in each corner of the *desired mortise*, then using a jig saw with a 3" long blade saw out between the holes. Now all that left is to either shape the tenon to fit the opening/mortise OR refine the mortise to fit a shouldered tenon.

I find it easiest to fit the tenon into the mortise than vice versa. You should make your mortise smaller than the overall size of the workpiece by at least 1/4"all around, to allow for shoulders on the tenon. The shoulders add a critical bearing surface to prevent racking, very important! So, when laying out the mortise, allow for that reduction in size.

As far as chisels go, ordinary plastic handled carpenters chisels will work, but if you have to really bang on the ends, you will want a steel ended chisel. You may not have a mallet for using on the end of a chisel, since it's not really a basic tool. A dead blow plastic hammer would also work. Specialized mortising chisel are much more stout with thicker blades and capped ends for use with a mallet.

If you do not own a jig saw, I suggest getting one. I bought a cheap Black and Decker for my son when he was 10 years old and I'm amazed at it's power and the ease of changing blades. :smile3:


----------



## Tennessee Tim (Dec 15, 2010)

*Just a note!!*

On the replies re chisels being slower.....not necessarily ....today I miscalculated and cut a measurement on a wavy wall with a double window in a 1860 farmhouse 8 different depths (enough said!!! LOL) ...any way built the new jamb and installed to realize one corner was 5/16" proud. I remembered Jay said it can be quicker with a sharp chisel (2" long handled slick for me).....in 5 minutes I was corrected and all aligned back up in 2 directions. I couldn't have gotten the power tools out and and done the job that quickly.

I'm only showing the pile of shavings...too much light coming through the windows for good window trim pics.

THANKS JAY!!!!!


----------

