# Wax treatment for table saw table?



## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

I've heard of using car wax to protect a table saw table but is that the best solution? If so, should I use paste or liquid wax? I don't want anything that will leave a coating on wood that passes across it but I also don't want the iron table to rust either.

Within a month or two I will have AC in my work shop. But until then it is hot in there and I've already dripped sweat on the table a few times now. I wipe it off as soon as I can but it still has managed to leave a few small rust spots that I've had to clean up with 000 steel wool. 

Naturally, I don't like the idea of scouring the surface of my beautiful 9 month old Ridgid table saw. I'd love the protect the surface if possible. What should I use and how? I want this tool to shine for years to come.

Thanks for reading.


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## H. A. S. (Sep 23, 2010)

I've always used paste wax, maybe twice a year.


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## Roger Newby (May 26, 2009)

+1 Johnson's Paste Wax. :thumbsup: C'man's gonna disagree though.


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## rrich (Jun 24, 2009)

Johnsons Paste Wax, Minwax Paste Wax or Butchers Bowling Alley Wax.

Wax on, wax off and you can't go wrong.


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## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

I use it on my saw. You could also look into Boeshield (T9) but wax is a lot cheaper.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

*Yep, Johnsons...*

All cast once a month.

Depending on use, maybe once a week.

I use a RO buffer to polish, never a problem. :smile:


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

+1 again... *Johnson's Paste Wax!*

... for ALL woodworking projects too!


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> I've heard of using car wax to protect a table saw table but is that the best solution? If so, should I use paste or liquid wax? I don't want anything that will leave a coating on wood that passes across it but I also don't want the iron table to rust either.
> 
> Within a month or two I will have AC in my work shop. But until then it is hot in there and I've already dripped sweat on the table a few times now. I wipe it off as soon as I can but it still has managed to leave a few small rust spots that I've had to clean up with 000 steel wool.
> 
> ...


Here is the only thing i use i live in florida and have no rust on any of my tool's . It is T-9 for the top it will be slick and protect it. Now if their are rust than use this RUST OFF. You can get those from most any supplyer or i belive sear's has both of them. I don't use wax or steel wool to much trouble the t-9 will keep your top in fine order.


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## Doorguy (Aug 29, 2011)

I use regular car wax, applied with steel wool. I apply it all the time, so the wood glides over the table. Especially when making tennons on the table saw with dado stack.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

It looks like the paste wax wins the vote. I was told about waxing but my information did not come from a woodworker. I wanted confirmation from people who know from first hand experience. Thank you very much guys. I knew I could count on getting experienced answers from you guys.

Am I correct to assume that the Johnsons and Minwax are to be purchased from a hardware store and not at an auto parts store?

I have never heard of T-9 so I just did a quick search and found "Boeshield _T_-_9", which is billed as a "_lubeaerosol". Does this leave an oily film? The name implies to me that maybe it would. I don't want anything that is going to mar/stain the surface of wood passed over it.


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## Doorguy (Aug 29, 2011)

Thats what I like about the car wax. I apply it, wipe it off, table is dry, and slick as snot. Ha.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

Doorguy said:


> Thats what I like about the car wax. I apply it, wipe it off, table is dry, and slick as snot. Ha.


I do Johnson's Paste Wax the very same way as you do... "slickerin snot" :thumbsup:


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Mine spends its life under a trap on the carport unless it's cutting something. Rust is a major issue. When I first got it the top was a rusted mess that I was able to clean up with a wire cone thing on my angle grinder. Since then its gotten a coat of T9 twice a year and/or mineral oil with a Scotch Brite pad. The T9 keeps the heavy rust off and the mineral oil takes care of the small stuff.

Before I'm going to use it I clean the oils off and use Johnson's Furniture paste wax. Keeps it rust free and slicker than the slickest snot.

Of course C-man hates any kind of wax on things and probably for good reason. Wax build up on raw wood can ruin a finish.


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

Uh oh... Ain't going there.

BTW, Butchers wax is not produced any more.


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## sawdustfactory (Jan 30, 2011)

Turtle wax paste wax. Twice to three times per year. Jointer, bandsaw, lathe bed, planer in and outfeed tables too.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Brink said:


> Uh oh... Ain't going there.


 
C'mon... That's half the fun of it.

What do you use??? :smile:


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> C'mon... That's half the fun of it.
> 
> What do you use??? :smile:


There's a reason I know Butchers is no more. I scored the last 3 cans (in my area) of Boston polish a year ago.


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## klr650 (Apr 4, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> C'mon... That's half the fun of it.
> 
> What do you use??? :smile:


Diesel. Gives all my projects that "rustic" just out of the trainyard finish to them.:no:

_PS: johnson's paste wax guy myself._

Only need to wax the tablesaw and jointer - the others are either granite, stainless, or cast aluminum


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## TomC (Oct 27, 2008)

I was told to never use car wax. It contains silicon and this will cause finishing problems. I only use Johnsons paste wax.
Tom


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

I was just waiting a bit so I can take names.:laughing: If you understand what wax does, you wouldn't put it on anything that touches or is near wood. I don't put wax on anything in the shop. On woodworking surfaces, once machining takes place, dust gets airborne and can and will land on anything and everything in the shop. It also gets on the wood...yes it does.

Some products, that may have a silicone component will contaminate a shop, usually forever, making finishing problematic. You don't have to believe me, and go on being amazed how slick snot is. Actually snot would be a safer product.

I use Top Cote. It has no waxes or silicones or petroleum components. It lasts longer and slicker than any wax. Yes, I know what wax does, and wised up.

DISCLAIMER;
Cabinetman has no financial interest in Top Cote, or any affiliation with the producers or merchants of Top Cote. Any cans found that are autographed by cabinetman should be submitted for authenticity. Using this product will not guarantee an improvement in craftsmanship, but may reduce the possibility of a headache, when used as directed.
 











 







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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> I was just waiting a bit so I can take names.:laughing: If you understand what wax does, you wouldn't put it on anything that touches or is near wood. I don't put wax on anything in the shop. On woodworking surfaces, once machining takes place, dust gets airborne and can and will land on anything and everything in the shop. It also gets on the wood...yes it does.
> 
> Some products, that may have a silicone component will contaminate a shop, usually forever, making finishing problematic. You don't have to believe me, and go on being amazed how slick snot is. Actually snot would be a safer product.
> 
> ...


Well that's just super! Great!

What you're trying to say is that autographed can of top cote, sitting on my mantle, is counterfeit?

Please say that was you at Woodworkers Warehouse


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Brink said:


> Well that's just super! Great!
> 
> What you're trying to say is that autographed can of top cote, sitting on my mantle, is counterfeit?
> 
> Please say that was you at Woodworkers Warehouse


Is it in a Walnut display case with a glass cover?












 







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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

cabinetman said:


> Is it in a Walnut display case with a glass cover?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uh, uhm, oh, kinda was...measured wrong, the can didn't fit, then the Krylon clear in a spray can fish eyed. I used it to smoke some spam, then I felt ill.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Brink said:


> Uh, uhm, oh, kinda was...measured wrong, the can didn't fit, then the Krylon clear in a spray can fish eyed. I used it to smoke some spam, then I felt ill.


Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better. BTW, fish eyes taste terrible.












 







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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

cabinetman, OK now I think I have the answer I was searching for. I need to get me a can of Top Cote. My main concern was, as you addressed, the possibility of the wood not accepting finish as well as it could. I'm green enough that I don't want to develop habits that may detract from any possible advantage I could have.

I do appreciate that so many others swear by and use paste wax. It must work well or it wouldn't be a common go-to solution (I know, that logic won't always get me through life). I was looking for the "best" solution, as well as wanting to verify that other woodworkers - REAL woodworkers - use wax. So, I MAY still go the wax route but, I'd probably like to get the Top Cote instead.


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> So, I MAY still go the wax route but, I'd probably like to get the Top Cote instead.


 
Get off the fence brother... What's it gonna be? :laughing:


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

mdntrdr said:


> Get off the fence brother... What's it gonna be? :laughing:


I... don't... know... 

I _want_ to go with the Top Cote if I can find it locally. If I have to order it and pay shipping on top of the $15 bucks or so, I may let my [email protected], I mean, thrifty, side twist my wrist into buying a can of Johnson's or Minwax paste wax and being happy with that.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> I... don't... know...
> 
> I want to go with the Top Cote if I can find it locally. If I have to order it and pay shipping on top of the $15 bucks or so, I may let my [email protected], I mean, thrifty, side twist my wrist into buying a can of Johnson's or Minwax paste wax and being happy with that.


The top cote is deff worth the money... I spray a dusting over my blades and bits now and the and find if helps dramatically by reducing build-up...

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## Improv (Aug 13, 2008)

firemedic said:


> The top cote is deff worth the money...


A chemistry degree and a MSDS tell me a three gallons of high-octane gas to wipe down my table saw might be cheaper. Just saying  ...


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Improv said:


> A chemistry degree and a MSDS tell me a three gallons of high-octane gas to wipe down my table saw might be cheaper. Just saying  ...


Haha... My BS in biz and my AS in finance plus my AS in firefighting tells me I'll keep keep'n on... :laughing:

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

What does this tell you?

http://www.freemansupply.com/MSDS/scanned/Other/Johnsonpastewax.pdf :smile:


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## Taylormade (Feb 3, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> DISCLAIMER;
> Cabinetman has no financial interest in Top Cote, or any affiliation with the producers or merchants of Top Cote. Any cans found that are autographed by cabinetman should be submitted for authenticity. Using this product will not guarantee an improvement in craftsmanship, but may reduce the possibility of a headache, when used as directed.
> 
> .


LMAO! :laughing::laughing:


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## Improv (Aug 13, 2008)

mdntrdr said:


> What does this tell you?
> 
> http://www.freemansupply.com/MSDS/scanned/Other/Johnsonpastewax.pdf :smile:


Tells me there are two components with no volatility, paraffin wax (also used to seal home-made jelly/jam and to make low cost chocolate Easter bunnies and DQ chocolate dip) and carnuba wax (which further cures/crosslinks so that it no longer soluble), which indicates that removal of these materials by surface abrasion (i.e., rubbing with wood) is the most likely cause of material loss from the table saw. See section 2 of the MSDS for ingredients. 

As an aside back to Top Cote, the 'no petroleum components' of Top Cote is kind of a wordplay trick if you are concerned about reducing your use of things that are pumped out of the ground. Just be aware there is a technical difference between "component of" and "derived from". All four components of Top Cote are definately derived from petroleum, though they may not be a component of petroleum (depending on the source of the petroleum).


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Improv said:


> Tells me there are two components with no volatility, paraffin wax (also used to seal home-made jelly/jam and to make low cost chocolate Easter bunnies and DQ chocolate dip) and carnuba wax (which further cures/crosslinks so that it no longer soluble), which indicates that removal of these materials by surface abrasion (i.e., rubbing with wood) is the most likely cause of material loss from the table saw. See section 2 of the MSDS for ingredients.
> 
> As an aside back to Top Cote, the 'no petroleum components' of Top Cote is kind of a wordplay trick if you are concerned about reducing your use of things that are pumped out of the ground. Just be aware there is a technical difference between "component of" and "derived from". All four components of Top Cote are definately derived from petroleum, though they may not be a component of petroleum (depending on the source of the petroleum).


Use what you please. I'm just offering my opinion based on years of shop work, and stating what products I have problems with, and which ones I don't.












 







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## lawrence (Nov 14, 2009)

mdntrdr said:


> What does this tell you?
> 
> http://www.freemansupply.com/MSDS/scanned/Other/Johnsonpastewax.pdf :smile:


 

That if I drop my cigarette on the table saw Im subject to blow my face off? well thanks pal , I was just getting over the "cut off finger ordeal".........lol

but seriously , I use the wax and I (nor anyone else) ever smokes in my shop.
50 gals gas
50 cans finish
dena alcahol
paint remover
paint thinner
half used 55 gal drum fiberglass resin

open flames or hot ash is beyond tempting fate in there


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## Improv (Aug 13, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> Use what you please. I'm just offering my opinion based on years of shop work, and stating what products I have problems with, and which ones I don't.


Good thing I was responding to comments made by Firemedic and mdntdr so you don't take my comments personally then, wasn't it.


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## cowboy dan (Apr 11, 2010)

there it is. k, i have always known wax is bad. only recently while at a trade show, i saw some, it was alot of money, i just wanted to see if anyone has used the product. i have been using car wax, it is smooth, but i don't care for the residue. with car wax, you still get moisture marks. i'm not sure what topcoat is, but is it a type of teflon spray? if not, what about teflon? could it work? i know for a fact if teflon spray was used, i would have alot of wood sliding off. it's slick, just curious if it could protect the machine surface i do know how to remove car wax. methyl hydrate ( gasline antifreeze) after 5 coats, the wax starts to interfere with the movement of my rip fence. having learned that, i don't have to readjust my rip fence as often.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

It's nice to know there is something better than Slick Snott out there...  :thumbsup: :laughing:

I have tried that stuff before... and it didn't seem to last very long at all... that's when I went back to wax...

I shall Try Again...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Improv said:


> A chemistry degree and a MSDS tell me a three gallons of high-octane gas to wipe down my table saw might be cheaper. Just saying  ...


You have a chemistry degree and would consider high-octane gasoline in a shop environment, and used on metal surfaces? Checking the MSDS of Johnson's Paste Wax, gives me a list of chemicals that make up the isoparaffinic hydrocarbon solvent. I'm no chemist, or have ever stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, but I did take chemistry in high school and college. That list sounds scary volatile, especially for use in insecticides. No more chocolate Easter bunnies for me.:laughing:












 







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## BWSmith (Aug 24, 2010)

Sawdust and air here along with miles of lumber.....No-wax,no Top coat neither.

Got a new enough Grizz 8" jointer the other week from a guy who owned it for 3 or so years and never used it.Well,how 'bout less than 100' max.Anyway he put sumthin?Looks like Top Coat........on it.Its wearing off....BUT,thats not an indictment of the product.More of a case of me using the equip like it was designed for.Just sayin,BW


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## del schisler (Nov 5, 2009)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> It looks like the paste wax wins the vote. I was told about waxing but my information did not come from a woodworker. I wanted confirmation from people who know from first hand experience. Thank you very much guys. I knew I could count on getting experienced answers from you guys.
> 
> Am I correct to assume that the Johnsons and Minwax are to be purchased from a hardware store and not at an auto parts store?
> 
> I have never heard of T-9 so I just did a quick search and found "Boeshield _T_-_9", which is billed as a "_lubeaerosol". Does this leave an oily film? The name implies to me that maybe it would. I don't want anything that is going to mar/stain the surface of wood passed over it.


It doesn't leve a oil like film. It goes on clear and just wipe it off with a rag and you are done. It will not stain if you don't wipe it off. I have used it for yrs and that is the only thing i use. Like i said it leve's a slick bed. Wax has been around longer than T-9 but boeing air craft invented it for their use so it may be good?? Wax if you don't get it all off it will get on the wood ? and when you finish you could get where the finish doesn't stick to the wood Lot's of strange things could happen with wax. That is not my thing to use. Just my 2 cents


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## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

cabinetman said:


> I was just waiting a bit so I can take names.:laughing: If you understand what wax does, you wouldn't put it on anything that touches or is near wood.


can you elaborate on that?


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

Just to throw another wrench in, I've known a few people to use baby powder on the bare cast iron as a dry lube... Tried it, works ok for the jointer and TS but crapped up the rollers on my planer in turn tearing one requiring me to change em, costing me money... 

Did make the shop smell 'fresh' though :laughing:

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## mdntrdr (Dec 22, 2009)

firemedic said:


> I've known a few people to use baby powder on the bare cast iron as a dry lube...


 
Don't be wastin' the baby powder... You'r gonna' be needin' it. :laughing:


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

cellophane said:


> can you elaborate on that?


If you need an explanation, I'll do my best to keep it relevant. Wax is a barrier of sorts. It provides a surface preparation, which also acts like a non stick. Would you put wax on wood that needed a finish applied?












 







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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Cabinetman, do you know if Top Cote is available at hardware/home improvement stores? I am becoming more and more convinced that I should be going that route and avoiding wax. I appreciate the enlightenment I've received.


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## firemedic (Dec 26, 2010)

mdntrdr said:


> Don't be wastin' the baby powder... You'r gonna' be needin' it. :laughing:


:laughing: Jan 29th man!

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Chaincarver Steve said:


> Cabinetman, do you know if Top Cote is available at hardware/home improvement stores? I am becoming more and more convinced that I should be going that route and avoiding wax. I appreciate the enlightenment I've received.


I never looked, but it's possible. I get it at Constantines, which is about 15 minutes away. You might call some local hardware stores. If you call a home center they will likely put you on ignore while someone forgets you're on the phone.










 







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## Doorguy (Aug 29, 2011)

I checked with the guys that stain and finish alot of my doors, and they have not had a problem with them. I guess I get the wax off when finish sanding.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

firemedic said:


> :laughing: Jan 29th man!
> 
> ~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...


Hey that's my dads birthday.


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## Improv (Aug 13, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> You have a chemistry degree and would consider high-octane gasoline in a shop environment, and used on metal surfaces?


Very much so. How much would you need to wipe down a table saw top? Would you consider spraying propane, butane, and/or acetone in a shop environment? (trick question, you are if you use Top Cote) IMO, I would lean toward the less flammable option (fyi .. its the gasoline, not the Top Cote )



> I'm no chemist


Remember that.


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## cowboy dan (Apr 11, 2010)

propane and butane are found in pam non stick spray too. i still use it in my home. i've seen the stuff in lots of aerosols. my guess is for pressure. they are safe as long as you don't smoke while applying it.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Improv said:


> As an aside back to Top Cote, the 'no petroleum components' of Top Cote is kind of a wordplay trick if you are concerned about reducing your use of things that are pumped out of the ground. Just be aware there is a technical difference between "component of" and "derived from". All four components of Top Cote are definately derived from petroleum, though they may not be a component of petroleum (depending on the source of the petroleum).


You talk about 'wordplay trick', this tops it. To be honest, I'm not concerned about reducing what I use that gets pumped out of the ground. Water for example will be tops on my list for the rest of my life. What we are discussing is what to use on a table saw top...remember. It's a simple discussion. 



Improv said:


> Very much so. How much would you need to wipe down a table saw top? Would you consider spraying propane, butane, and/or acetone in a shop environment? (trick question, you are if you use Top Cote) IMO, I would lean toward the less flammable option (fyi .. its the gasoline, not the Top Cote )


No, I'm not a chemist...are you? Can't tell from your profile what you do. For somebody with a chemistry degree, what you use might be a breakthrough for all of us. You can post and tell what you use.












 







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## johnnySalvage (Aug 31, 2011)

*Pre-Wax/Lube*

How about pre-prep before your lubricant? I've been taught to sand the surface with a high grit paper in the direction of the feed (and cast iron grain) to get off rust spots, then clean off with mineral spirits before using Johnson's Paste Wax. My results are just ok...

What do you all do?


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

I use Johnson's Paste Wax most often but have used a stick of canning wax or bees wax. Waxing will also help prevent surface rust on saw tables. Some people use silicone spray but that gets into the wood and causes fisheye when you finish the project.


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

I've mentioned this before, but I've used Teflon for years now on my top. "Tri-Flow" is the brand name. It makes the top super duper slick and I can go months without reapplying with an unheated shop.

Like others have said, I've never had any finish problems. But I generally sand well before any finish.


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

Anything you put on your machinery is going to transfer to the wood including Top Cote. Unless somebody is putting wax on with a broad knife it is so little it won't make any difference. I've been using Johnson Paste Wax for fourty years and see no reason to change. It's cheap and you can find it at the corner grocery store.


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## slicksqueegie (Feb 9, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> DISCLAIMER;
> Cabinetman has no financial interest in Top Cote, or any affiliation with the producers or merchants of Top Cote. Any cans found that are autographed by cabinetman should be submitted for authenticity. Using this product will not guarantee an improvement in craftsmanship, but may reduce the possibility of a headache, when used as directed.
> .


awesome! :laughing:


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

Clarion:

I went to Amazon & searched... I got ALL KINDS of Tri-Flow listed kinds w/ Teflon & some without teflon.


Could you please give us Link to Exactly what you're using?

Thank you.
:thumbsup:


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## clarionflyer (Apr 27, 2008)

A couple of local guys steered me to Tri-Flow because of my unheated shop. The temp swings can cause a lot of condensation on the tools. I couldn't ask for anything easier or better (I can go months between touch-ups). 


To make it shine, I occasionally (lightly) touch the top with Tri-flow and a green scotch brite pad. That's about 2-3 minutes. Then I just wipe it off with a towel. 
It takes about 15 min to dry and your ready to go.


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## mdlbldrmatt135 (Dec 6, 2006)

Brink said:


> Uh oh... Ain't going there.
> 
> BTW, Butchers wax is not produced any more.


Wrong Awnser!!!

http://www.bwccompany.com/catalog.html


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

mdlbldrmatt135 said:


> Wrong Awnser!!!
> 
> http://www.bwccompany.com/catalog.html


Haha, and here I was imagining that "Butcher's Wax" must be a wax used by butchers to protect "butcher blocks" and other cutting tables/surfaces. It's a brand name... :blush:


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## Brink (Nov 22, 2010)

mdlbldrmatt135 said:


> Wrong Awnser!!!
> 
> http://www.bwccompany.com/catalog.html


 
My bad, I'm terribly sorry.

S.C. Johnson dropped the Butcher's line. I did not know the BWC Co. was still producing it.


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## Chaincarver Steve (Jul 30, 2011)

Argh, looks I was too late on treating my saw table. Now I'm in rush mode to get a can of TopCote. Take a look at what the electrician did a few days ago:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/seriously-little-respect-please-29801/#post244907


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## cellophane (Oct 6, 2009)

what about wax for other tools (planes?) I was reading somethign the other day written by Christopher Schwartz and he mentioned waxing the bottom of the (jointer) plane to help facilitate a nice glide across the wood.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

cellophane said:


> what about wax for other tools (planes?) I was reading somethign the other day written by Christopher Schwartz and he mentioned waxing the bottom of the (jointer) plane to help facilitate a nice glide across the wood.


It might. So, what has happened to the plane that allowed that to happen? Consider the purpose of wax, and then decide if you want it in your woodworking. My personal preference is not to subject wood to wax.












 







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## Improv (Aug 13, 2008)

cabinetman said:


> My personal preference is not to subject wood to wax.


You should switch from TopCote to DriCote then.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

*Update:*

Before I went to Johnson's Wax, I used the T-9.

It worked, BUT, it didn't seem to last very long; slight rust would appear much faster than ever before.

I went to Johnson's Wax and it seems to just last & last... nowhere near the rust problems I had while using T-9.

NOW, I have been studying *Tri-Flow, aerosol spray, TF20005*, and will be using it very soon... as soon as it arrives.

*Some of the Key points I found:*

*Their Website*

*Base: *Mineral Oil with PTFE (Teflon)
*No Waxes or Silicone.

Looks to be cheaper than T-9 too.*

It can be found at Ace Hardware stores... If you have trouble finding it, you can get it here.

Also, Clarionflyer got me thinking about it telling me how well it worked for him... then, after my own research done, have decided to try it.

It looks pretty good to me... We shall see...


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

I know all about getting silicone, even just a sniff of it while spraying a finish. I always spray and sometimes help out a neighbor to re-finish a table top. They use Pledge to clean and that can cause some interesting experiences.

I have used Johnson's paste was for years on all my equipment, that is machines, hand planes, lathe chisels, carving chisels or anything that corrodes in a humid environment. Sometimes my shop is dormant for a few months, it is not conditioned. Paste wax just seems to outlast everything else. Also, I do not wipe it off or buff, I simply apply with a cloth with a moderate amount of wax and leave it.

In terms of bringing wax near wood, the photo below is a piece my father made in the 60's and it was finished with mineral oil, followed by paste wax. I apply wax once every four years if necessary. Some of his other pieces have exposure with water marks from cups in terms of where they are used so I have sprayed them, right over the paste wax, using Lacquer and the finish went on fine.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

Nice piece!

You sprayed Lacquer over Wax and all was fine?!
I can't see how that would work...


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## WarriorWithWood (Oct 23, 2011)

I use topcote also. Why take the chance when you don't have too?


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Nice piece!
> 
> You sprayed Lacquer over Wax and all was fine?!
> I can't see how that would work...


+1. I can't either. Just doesn't make sense. Anytime I've tried that was a repair or refinish to an old piece, and the finish reacts to the wax. Subject had to be stripped and sanded to bare wood, and then wiped with acetone, or lacquer thinner. 










 







.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

WarriorWithWood said:


> I use topcote also. Why take the chance when you don't have too?


I used to use TC... didn't like it... went to Johnsons Wax (still like it)...
*BUT,* I'm willing to try this Tri-Flow stuff... to see if it's better than JW and TC...
... Just the science in me... I guess... *I gotta know... *


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Nice piece!
> 
> You sprayed Lacquer over Wax and all was fine?!
> I can't see how that would work...


Used Deft, thinned about 30% with Lacquer thinners a few times now. Rubbed out paste wax dissolves into the finish without any problems.

Perhaps Cabinet Man tried finishing over paste wax, which was applied over a different finish, so it was not absorbed into the wood?

The piece above was the way my father finished all his projects, being a few applications of mineral oil followed by paste wax over the years. The problem with these natural finishes is durability. If you place anything wet, such as a cup on item, the wax is penetrated leaving water marks. So, I ended up refinishing a half a dozen or so, some of them more than 10 years ago and there are no issues.

I posted this because there were concerns here about a little wax on wood from your machines causing finishing problems. That is a myth, provided there are no silicones. The latter causes "fish eyes" which are difficult to remedy.


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

WillemJM said:


> Used Deft, thinned about 30% with Lacquer thinners a few times now.
> *Rubbed out paste wax dissolves into the finish without any problems.*
> I posted this because there were *concerns here about a little wax on wood from your machines causing finishing problems. That is a myth, provided there are no silicones. *The latter causes "fish eyes" which are difficult to remedy.


*WillemJM:*
Thank you very much! 

I didn't know that!

So, if you suspect the piece has WAX on it, *would it be safe *to say
*"Rub it down good with Mineral Spirits" *before proceeding to apply the rest of new Finish?

If not, please feel free to correct me.

Thank you.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

Joe Lyddon said:


> *WillemJM:*
> Thank you very much!
> 
> I didn't know that!
> ...


For a previously finished piece, that would be the safest route. If it was treated with Pledge, the Mineral Spirits rub down needs to be very thorough.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

WillemJM said:


> Used Deft, thinned about 30% with Lacquer thinners a few times now. Rubbed out paste wax dissolves into the finish without any problems.


I don't agree with that, and I wouldn't suggest doing that unless you have the time and material to refinish if there is a reaction.



WillemJM said:


> Perhaps Cabinet Man tried finishing over paste wax, which was applied over a different finish, so it was not absorbed into the wood?


With some old finishes, it's difficult to tell what was used. I would never finish over wax. If you consider what wax does, it stands to reason that it will act as a barrier to an applied finish. An application of dewaxed shellac can be applied over a questionable finish giving way for most any film finishes.



WillemJM said:


> The piece above was the way my father finished all his projects, being a few applications of mineral oil followed by paste wax over the years. The problem with these natural finishes is durability.


Wax finishes provide no durability, and need periodic application to maintain whatever feel and sheen is thought to exist. Using it precludes further finishing unless steps are taken...which can be a PITA. I prefer a maintenance free finish.



WillemJM said:


> I posted this because there were concerns here about a little wax on wood from your machines causing finishing problems. That is a myth, provided there are no silicones. The latter causes "fish eyes" which are difficult to remedy.


It may be a myth in your opinion. Wax is an interface, no matter how you want to think of it. It may seem inconsequential that wood being machined over waxed parts become contaminated. That's not the only problem inherent with the so called myth. Wood parts that get machined, or sanded, will provide an airborne contamination, just like silicones. Waxes can contain a variety of ingredients that can contribute to the "myth", like PTFE's and petroleum products and bi-products.

You are entitled to your opinion. You may have more experience with finishing than I, or not have had that many projects to judge/experience the "myth", or have been lucky. By the time a project gets to the point of ready for finish, it's a bit late in the game to find out there might be a problem.

Forums provide the format to exchange information. If through my experiences I find some information that would be of benefit to others I share it.












 







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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> I don't agree with that, and I wouldn't suggest doing that unless you have the time and material to refinish if there is a reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are a long list of substances that with slight contamination will reduce the surface tension when spraying Lacquer. Silicone is the main culprit, but there are many others, being deodrants, anti-stick cooking sprays, lubricant additives, cutting oils and so the list continues.

In specific, Johnsons Paste wax do not contain any surface tension threatening ingredients.

Bostik Top Cote has two data sheets floating around, none available on the actual Bostik web-site. The one MSDS shows only the main propellants, the other shows a base very similar to what you would find in Johnsons paste wax and more with a slight twist.

Reviews quoted below are not great, but if it works for you, great!

7 of 12 people found the following review helpful: 
1.0 out of 5 stars *BEWARE!*, January 23, 2002 
By 




 (Madison, Al United States) - 






*This review is from: Bostik 10220 Aerosol Top-Cote (Misc.)* 
I had just received my new 15" planer. I degreased it and put on two coats of Top Cote. I also did the tablesaw, jointer, bandsaw and Spindle sander. Imagine my horror when 4 days later my brand new planer had a coating of rust. So did the tablesaw, jointer, bandsaw, and spindle sander. The tools that I did not use Top Cote on did not have any rust (Mortiser, Drill press, etc). This product says it does not stain but it does. It leaves a milky stain behind. False advertising all around. Now I have to figure out how to remove the rust and then I'll use some type of paste wax. I'm calling Bostik tomorrow - wonder how far I will get? *Help other customers find the most helpful reviews* 
Was this review helpful to you? 



 








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Comment Comment








1 of 3 people found the following review helpful: 
2.0 out of 5 stars *Bostik's Top Cote*, December 10, 2000 
By *A Customer*

*Amazon Verified Purchase*(



) 
*This review is from: Bostik 10220 Aerosol Top-Cote (Misc.)* 
I agree with Bradley Keller's review. I bought this product to treat the top of my table saw. I was shocked to see a milky-white haze appear after application (I went by the directions on the can verbatim). It smells and looks like wax, so I figured I needed to buff or polish the top cote in. I hand buffed my saw top for about an hour and this took care of the white haze. However, it did not leave my surface as slick as I had expected it to. I too will use a simple auto wax from now on. *Help other customers find the most helpful reviews* 
Was this review helpful to you? 



 








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1 of 6 people found the following review helpful: 
2.0 out of 5 stars *Don't bother if you live in California*, June 2, 2006 
By 




 - 



(REAL NAME) 



*This review is from: Bostik 10220 Aerosol Top-Cote (Misc.)* 
Cannot buy this product if you live in California due to environmental laws. 

Product says nothing about it and states: 

Shipping: This item can only be shipped to the 48 contiguous states. We regret it cannot be shipped to APO/FPO, Hawaii, Alaska, or Puerto Rico. 

Caifornia isn't part of the 48 lower states!


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

WillemJM said:


> In specific, Johnsons Paste wax do not contain any surface tension threatening ingredients.


I don't go by what I hear or read on the internet. My opinions are from my doing the work. So...you use what you want.












 







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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> I used to use TC... didn't like it... went to Johnsons Wax (still like it)...
> *BUT,* I'm willing to try this Tri-Flow stuff... to see if it's better than JW and TC...
> ... Just the science in me... I guess... *I gotta know... *


Well, since then, I have purchased some Tri-Flow!

*I applied it to my Band Saw table first;* every time we have had a few rainy days, I can see a slight showing of rust just starting to form where I have to re-do the top.

*First of all, it smells good too! :thumbsup:

After having it applied for several weeks/months going through some wet rainy days,* *the BS top has NOT shown any indication of even wanting to rust! And, it has remained nice and smooth too! I think we have a winner.* :thumbsup: 

*From now on, I will be using Tri-Flow instead of my once faithful Johnsons Paste Wax.* :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


*clarionflyer,* thank you for bringing this to our attention!
You did good!


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Well, since then, I have purchased some Tri-Flow!
> 
> *I applied it to my Band Saw table first;* every time we have had a few rainy days, I can see a slight showing of rust just starting to form where I have to re-do the top.
> 
> ...



Well, I'm still using it!

I LOVE IT!

It LASTS SO LONG! Much longer than Johnson's Paste Wax!!

I also find it's super good for WD-40 type things... hinges, wheels, bearings, etc... SUPER GOOD!

If you have not tried this stuff, by all means, put it on your list and try it!
I guarantee that you WILL like it!

Great stuff!


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## Lynden (Apr 21, 2008)

I use Johnson's Paste Wax. If I remember correctly, Norm said he uses silicone-free SlipIt on his table saw.

http://www.slipit.com/prodline.html


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## Joe Lyddon (Mar 13, 2007)

Before I started using this NEW stuff, I was a Johns Wax guy... 100%

Tri-Flow knocks the socks off of JW... in protection and duration!
... and it does not contain all of those Bad things...


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