# Table saw or jointer?



## Allman27 (Feb 10, 2013)

I am in the market for a new table saw and jointer, only thing is I have the funds for only one right now. With my budget being about 700 dollars. I am watching craigslist constantly, so hopefully I can get both. But let's say I buy new, what one should I get first? Right now I have a cheap table saw from skil that is a bench top. I am getting into building bookshevles, coat racks and night stands. I have a lumberyard very close with cheap prices for rough sawn lumber, so I would love a jointer to take full advantage of that place, but once I would joint the wood and plane it down I would be stuck using the crap table saw. But should I get a good saw then be at a loss with the rough sawn wood from the yard? Any suggestions would be great!


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

You can do with a table saw most of what you can do with a jointer, but you cant use a jointer to do what a table saw can. Since you already have a table saw, the big question is how satisfied are you with your current saw? Cut through everything you need it to? Wide enough fence range, etc? If any of those is even "not quite", id prioritize the table saw

For $700 you should be able to buy 2 decent quality new tools. A decent contractor or hybrid saw is generally in the 4-600 dollar range, and something like a benchtop 6 inch jointer ive seen around 2-300, and honestly the benchtop ones are usually sufficient for hobbyist use.

Last note, id prioritize a thickness planer over a jointer. Sure, you cant edge joint a board with a planer, but you can face a board with the right jigs and use the table saw to edge joint materials. Personally, i see the thickness planer as a somewhat more versatile machine, and the price range for a smaller one is near the same as the aforementioned jointer. 

Okay, this is the last note, a TLR version of sorts: $700 would be more than enough to get both tools if youre willing to buy used. Id recommend keeping an eye out for an older contractor style table saw, as theyre generally powerful enough for home use and available at decent costs. Id also recommend going for a thickness planer over a jointer at first, due to the planers increased versatility at the same price point


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## Black540i (Jan 4, 2013)

Buy the Ridgid R4512 table saw and find a used Craftsmen jointer on Craigslist. Easily done for 700, problem solved! I have the Ridgid and wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. I've had it for about a year and a half.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using woodworkingtalk.com mobile app


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Start with a rough sawn board. Run it across the jointer on the flat side until it cuts flat.
With the flat side against the fence, run one edge over it until smooth. You now have a flat side and an edge 90 deg to it.
Run it through the planer until you obtain the desired thickness.
Use the table saw to rip your stock to the desired width.

Only you can decide what to buy.
Good luck.
Mike


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*it's also a safety issue!*

Any boards cut using a table saw MUST be first straightened and flattened on a joiner OR you will get a pinch or wobble which will result in a kickback. Straight and flat is where it's at on the table saw. Seriously. :yes:

Plywood is not an issue because it's basically flat when you get it.... usually. Hardwood lumber, rough sawn, is where a good jointer will save you money and give you the ability to make many more projects. 

A fully equipped shop would have in my order of priority:
As large a table saw as you can afford and store.
A jojnter with as wide and long tables as you can afford.
A 15" wide a planer is just fine, since your jointer is the limiting factor.
As large a bandsaw as possible, for resawing and making curves....
A table mounted router with a lift for profiling edges and several hand held routers in various weights and sizes.
A a powerful dust collection system and a good shop vac.
As far as shop environment and hand tools goes:
Great lighting.
A large heavy workbench with good woodworking vises for hand planing work AND a separate assembly table for making glue ups.
Lots of clamps, squeeze and pipe in various lengths.
A collection of hand planes in various lengths and widths.
Good hand chisels.
A few pull saws and a dovetail saw.
etc , etc, .... :yes:


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Allman27 said:


> I am in the market for a new table saw and jointer, only thing is I have the funds for only one right now. With my budget being about 700 dollars. I am watching craigslist constantly, so hopefully I can get both. But let's say I buy new, what one should I get first? Right now I have a cheap table saw from skil that is a bench top. I am getting into building bookshevles, coat racks and night stands. I have a lumberyard very close with cheap prices for rough sawn lumber, so I would love a jointer to take full advantage of that place, but once I would joint the wood and plane it down I would be stuck using the crap table saw. But should I get a good saw then be at a loss with the rough sawn wood from the yard? Any suggestions would be great!


As I wipe the sleep from my eyes, I re read your post. If you could find a jointer, that would be great. You could still use your current saw with a rip blade to rip your lumber.

Say you find a jointer. Now you can...
Make a cutlist for your project.
Crosscut your material if possible to make shorter lengths.
If the board is bowed or crooked, you could use the jointer to create a straight edge or make a simple rip sled which works great for ripping a straight side on crooked material. That would depend on whether or not your table saw top is big enough to support it. A temporary outfeed and/or infeed table would be very beneficial.

"Woodnthings" has made a sled that would work great for this operation. It is much easier to straighten shorter boards than long ones.

What I am trying to convey is a jointer would be an immediate improvement to your work shop.

Here are some pics of a sled I made to rip rough lumber on the table saw. It is about four feet long.


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## Allman27 (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I believe I'm leaning towards a jointer. I already have a 12 1/2 inch planer I got this spring that was too good of a deal to pass up. So with those two I can really square up some boards. I'll just keep my eyes posted for a good table saw.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Spend $600 for a jointer and $100 for a good blade for the table saw you have. The blade can be used on any saw you get later so nothing lost.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Okay, being that you already have a planer id like to change my recommendation to work on the table saw. No reason you cant get both, I'd just prioritize the table saw


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## BigJoe16 (Feb 20, 2012)

I think Craigslist is your best friend. For now and later. 

I bought my 1948 unisaw for $160 with no fence just the original rails and the original motor. 

I got a 50" Vega pro TS fence for $165

I got a restored Delta 6" jointer from the 1940's with a new motor and fresh paint for $200 

I got all these off Craigslist and within 30 minutes of my house. If you wait for a deal to come up you can save quite a bit of money.

Craftsman 6" jointers are always listed for $200 or less and table saws are just as common. 

If I were you, I'd buy the best used tools I could find. Then as you continue, sell the used tools and buy new.


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## PhilBa (Jun 30, 2014)

BigJoe16 said:


> I think Craigslist is your best friend. For now and later.
> ...
> If I were you, I'd buy the best used tools I could find. Then as you continue, sell the used tools and buy new.


Sage advice there. But I'd amend it to say - as you continue, sell the used tools and buy better used tools. rinse and repeat. If you can find what you want on CL, why buy new?


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## gus1962 (Jan 9, 2013)

Go first with jointer but can't suggest you a brand.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

Table saw first beyond any doubt.

George


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't understand why so many woodworkers are poor as church mice when It comes to buying tools.

Al


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*My first power tool was a table saw*



GeorgeC said:


> Table saw first beyond any doubt.
> 
> George


My first stationary power tool was a Craftsman 10" 1 HP table saw. Back then, I didn't know any better .... I was just 18 years old .... and cut many boards and plywood, using the fence to rip and miter gauge to crosscut. I didn't think I needed a splitter/guard and it was set off to the side in a drawer.
I had a few kickbacks and never really understood why. 
Once in a while a piece of plywood would come away from the fence at the back and rise up and over the blade and hit me in the gut.... I never knew why. 

I didn't get a jointer for about 5 years later or so and I still didn't understand why I really needed it or how to
get a square edge to a flat surface. Somehow after more years of use without any serious accidents, I began to figure out some very basic rules of "safe table saw use' 

The first was to always use a splitter to keep the kerf open AND to maintain the workpiece snug against the fence to avoid those spinning/rotating workpieces.
My splitter now always stays on except for partial through cuts.... especially when ripping hardwood lumber which can pinch the back of the blade unexpectedly resulting in a stall or a kickback.

The second was a realization that a curved board or one that was not perfectly straight and flat would wobble or twist during the pass and either stall or kickback... OH! that's why I needed the joiner, to make boards straight, flat and square.

The third realization was that the two machines are a team AND you need them both for the safest operation of the table saw. If you mainly cut sheet goods plywood, MFD etc. you don't really need a jointer. If you cut rough sawn boards, with twist or curves that's where the jointer is necessary.

So the answer to the question ..."Which should I get first?" ... is it depends on what you are doing and the type of material you intend to cut. I would invest in a quality table saw either new or used with a good fence and not settle for anything less.:no: 
Believe it or not, the FENCE is the heart of the table saw and is the most used device on the machine. It had better be easy to use and self squaring OR you will not be a happy woodworker. I have 2 types of fences, the Biesmeyer and Unifence both of which are great and have distinct advantages over one another. ... But that's a whole different discussion.......


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## Alchymist (Jan 2, 2011)

Al B Thayer said:


> I don't understand why so many woodworkers are poor as church mice when It comes to buying tools.
> 
> Al


Uh, ......fixed income, retired? Buy as the deals come along I do! Took me 5 years to accumulate the ww stuff I have now.


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## FrankC (Aug 24, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> I don't understand why so many woodworkers are poor as church mice when It comes to buying tools.
> 
> Al


There are sometimes much more important things that have to be taken care of than woodworking tools.

I am sure that my daughter appreciates the trip she took to Japan with her theatre group much more than any tool I would have in my shop.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

Al B Thayer said:


> I don't understand why so many woodworkers are poor as church mice when It comes to buying tools.
> 
> Al


Because we'd rather have 2 decent tools over one perfect one. Or because most of us are flat broke, either or


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## Allman27 (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks everyone for all the help! I'm asking for this help because I want to make the best possible decision and not throw my money away. I work hard for what I have and my wife stays at home with my daughter, we are not poor, but money does not grow on trees. If it did I would not ask for suggestions and just go buy every tool out there.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

epicfail48 said:


> Because we'd rather have 2 decent tools over one perfect one. Or because most of us are flat broke, either or


What do you drive? We spend tons on a car that almost makes it to the end of our payments. 

Decent tools don't cost money. They are an investment. If you buy a cheap tool your just throwing your money away. 

Al


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Except many forget that even the cheapest import cars today regularly go 200k miles...much like that would have been unheard of 20 years ago, many import tools are of great quality and will last far longer than you'd expect.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

I can buy the best tools for my shop instead of the cheap crappy ones for less than the price of a new cheap crappy car. It amazes me how many threads we have on crappy tools day in and day out. I just don't get it. 

Then there are all the tools that "work" but nothing like a good tool. And yet people keep recommending them. "Let me help you buy a crappy tool because you think you need to save a dime". 

If there ever was something to get a loan for it would be good tools. Buy them once and go do some woodworking. Its far less than money wasted on a car. 

Al


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Al, tools for most of us are a luxury, a car is a necessity.


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

Al B Thayer said:


> I can buy the best tools for my shop instead of the cheap crappy ones for less than the price of a new cheap crappy car. It amazes me how many threads we have on crappy tools day in and day out. I just don't get it. Then there are all the tools that "work" but nothing like a good tool. And yet people keep recommending them. "Let me help you buy a crappy tool because you think you need to save a dime". If there ever was something to get a loan for it would be good tools. Buy them once and go do some woodworking. Its far less than money wasted on a car. Al


Your getting chewed up on this one. I remember someone saying they can buy four Porter Cable routers for the price of one Festool router. Quantity doesn't make up for quality. I'm still laughing.

I have tools from my dad that are from the 1950's. Still use them. I still have power tools from when I was getting started 40 years ago. I'would admit I'm a tool hoarder. Never know when you'll need it. 

If people are serious about tools and safety I would only recommend quality tools that are well made. If it's a passing fancy take up photography and save the digits.


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## epicfail48 (Mar 27, 2014)

unclefester said:


> Your getting chewed up on this one. I remember someone saying they can buy four Porter Cable routers for the price of one Festool router. Quantity doesn't make up for quality. I'm still laughing.
> 
> I have tools from my dad that are from the 1950's. Still use them. I still have power tools from when I was getting started 40 years ago. I'would admit I'm a tool hoarder. Never know when you'll need it.
> 
> If people are serious about tools and safety I would only recommend quality tools that are well made. If it's a passing fancy take up photography and save the digits.


Ill agree that quantity doesnt equal quality, but id like to chip in that price also doesnt equal quality. Sure, that $800 festool might be great, and would last forever in an extremely demanding production environment, but that $100 porter cable will handle everything the home hobbyist can throw at it. 

Ill also agree that tools are really best as a one time purchase. You shouldnt risk your personal safety or good results to save a buck, but theres a big difference between inexpensive tools and "cheap" tools, and there are more than a few inexpensive tools that get the job done quite well


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

epicfail48 said:


> Ill agree that quantity doesnt equal quality, but id like to chip in that price also doesnt equal quality. Sure, that $800 festool might be great, and would last forever in an extremely demanding production environment, but that $100 porter cable will handle everything the home hobbyist can throw at it. Ill also agree that tools are really best as a one time purchase. You shouldnt risk your personal safety or good results to save a buck, but theres a big difference between inexpensive tools and "cheap" tools, and there are more than a few inexpensive tools that get the job done quite well


I have a Porter Cable router too. I agree with everything you said. 

As an example I have very good Swedish chisels for furniture building and cheap craftsman chisels I can beat on for house framing. It's some of the cheap Chinese chisels I would worry about.


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

epicfail48 said:


> Ill agree that quantity doesnt equal quality, but id like to chip in that price also doesnt equal quality. Sure, that $800 festool might be great, and would last forever in an extremely demanding production environment, but that $100 porter cable will handle everything the home hobbyist can throw at it. Ill also agree that tools are really best as a one time purchase. You shouldnt risk your personal safety or good results to save a buck, but theres a big difference between inexpensive tools and "cheap" tools, and there are more than a few inexpensive tools that get the job done quite well


Hey is the $100 Porter Cable router The one being recalled?

Just asking.


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

unclefester said:


> Your getting chewed up on this one. I remember someone saying they can buy four Porter Cable routers for the price of one Festool router. Quantity doesn't make up for quality. I'm still laughing.
> 
> I have tools from my dad that are from the 1950's. Still use them. I still have power tools from when I was getting started 40 years ago. I'would admit I'm a tool hoarder. Never know when you'll need it.
> 
> If people are serious about tools and safety I would only recommend quality tools that are well made. If it's a passing fancy take up photography and save the digits.


There are costs associated with Fe$tool that don't add an ounce of quality to the tool. Lots of them. It's not that it's over priced. The costs are not the fault of Fe$tool just happens to be the way life is in socialist countries. 

Timberland boots cost more in Germany too but they are the same boots we by here for two thirds the cost. 

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

unclefester said:


> Your getting chewed up on this one. I remember someone saying they can buy four Porter Cable routers for the price of one Festool router. Quantity doesn't make up for quality. I'm still laughing.
> 
> I have tools from my dad that are from the 1950's. Still use them. I still have power tools from when I was getting started 40 years ago. I'would admit I'm a tool hoarder. Never know when you'll need it.
> 
> If people are serious about tools and safety I would only recommend quality tools that are well made. If it's a passing fancy take up photography and save the digits.


After looking at your Fe$tool router. I don't believe it's better than my Porter Cable. I'm not talking about quantity I'm getting the same quality for 1/4 the price. I've been using it for over 30 years, I'll let you know when It croaks.

Also, could a pad for your Fe$tool sander that costs over $45 really have something over the PC pad that costs $15?

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Dec 10, 2011)

ryan50hrl said:


> Al, tools for most of us are a luxury, a car is a necessity.


You just need to change the way your thinking. I honestly think you would be happier too. 

Al


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## woodnthings (Jan 24, 2009)

*"cheap" vs inferior vs high end .....*

There is no reason to buy an inferior tool these days, period. 
Amazon has reviews of all the tools they sell. Here's one on the Makita:
http://www.amazon.com/Makita-RD1101...iewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


Woodworking magazines have reviews of the major types of hand held and power tools. Here's one on router combos: http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodwor...rs-router-accessories/multi-base-router-kits/

You can ask for opinions on forums like this. There is a wealth of information available. Before you spend your money, spend some time doing a bit of research first.

I have tools that are 50 years old and some that are 1 year old.,... they all still work. I had 2 Harbor freight angle grinders, really cheap tools, just die suddenly. I determined the power cord had become separated inside the motor housing. A little solder and 5 minutes time and I was back at work abusing them. 

A truly cheap tool will probably first fail in the electrics... power cord, switches, electronics, but not always. The other major issues will be poor adjustment, accuracy,. fences, brackets, alignments, etc because of stamped metal.

Quality tools will have more precise adjustments, cast brackets, more powerful motors, better power cords, etc. Ergonomics, meaning the interface between the tool and the operator will be better on a quality tool.... usually.

Great tools acquire a good reputation over the years, for example the Porter Cable 690 routers. They are virtually "kill proof". A buddy of mine just "retired" his after 25 years of heavy use including profiling panels and using large diameter bits ... just out of respect.
It was still running strong and had no maintenance in all those years.

I only own 1 Festool, a TS 75, which I have never used. It was an impulse purchase, and a backup to a panel saw I was designing and building at the time. I never needed it. It's probably a very fine tool, and I paid a considerable amount for it and all the guides and a MFT table etc. The salesman, a very likeable fellow, couldn't have talked a better sales pitch either, so I fell for it. I wish I had my money back now. :thumbdown:


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## ryan50hrl (Jun 30, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> You just need to change the way your thinking. I honestly think you would be happier too. Al


Why am I not happy? I love my tools, I'd buy almost every one of them again. They don't cause me any ill will towards woodworking...


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## unclefester (Aug 23, 2013)

Al B Thayer said:


> After looking at your Fe$tool router. I don't believe it's better than my Porter Cable. I'm not talking about quantity I'm getting the same quality for 1/4 the price. I've been using it for over 30 years, I'll let you know when It croaks. Also, could a pad for your Fe$tool sander that costs over $45 really have something over the PC pad that costs $15? Al


Yes..


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## jacko9 (Dec 29, 2012)

*Table saw or Jointer*

After reading page two here, I forgot what the original poster asked about.

I love my Festool Tools and my Porter cable, Bosch, Powermatic, Poitras, etc but, He asked about what tool he should get next and the first quality woodworking power machine I bought was a Table Saw on the recommendation of a friend who ran a cabinet shop.

The second power tool was a 8" wide long bed Jointer (the larger machines were just too dang expensive).

My opinion is do the research and then buy what you need but buy quality. Every time I use my $99 Chinese made drill press I cringe and when I push it hard and the chuck arbor falls out I want to scream!

Jack


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