# Q on working with shellac - sanding?



## raindog308 (Sep 1, 2011)

I have a poplar project that I sanded very nicely to 400 grit. I really liked the smooth, glassy feel of the wood.

I then did a coat of shellac (premixed can). The instructions said to sand with 220 grit in between layers. 

So I sanded after the first later and the surface then looked really scratched up. So I did my second coat, sanded with 400 this time, and then put on a third coat.

I'm wondering if now I should sand again, or if it's done. Even with 400 grit, it seemed to scratch up the finish. 

So:


is the last coat the final step, or do people typically sand that?
Am I just pushing too hard? :blink: I'm just using a piece of 400 grit paper in my hand, not a machine.
The feel of the wood now is fine - I mean, it feels like shellac'd wood. I'm just wondering if sanding again will make it smoother.


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## jleep (Oct 27, 2011)

Don't sand last coat unless you want to remove it or degloss it by using a finer paper like 600-1000.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

raindog308 said:


> I have a poplar project that I sanded very nicely to 400 grit. I really liked the smooth, glassy feel of the wood.
> 
> I then did a coat of shellac (premixed can). The instructions said to sand with 220 grit in between layers.
> 
> ...


Which shellac (in the can) did you use?
Was it a wax free mix? 
What was the project, and why did you choose shellac?
If it was an old can, it may not dry sufficiently.
Coating wood that has been sanded to 400x may not achieve good penetration of the finish.












 







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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

raindog308 said:


> I have a poplar project that I sanded very nicely to 400 grit. I really liked the smooth, glassy feel of the wood.
> 
> I then did a coat of shellac (premixed can). The instructions said to sand with 220 grit in between layers.
> 
> ...


You don't have to sand between coats of Shellac and if you did, there is no problem coating over a 400, or finer sanding finish. The trick is to rub out your final coat, which will give a grand look.

Although my approach is different, the linky below gives you and idea.

I use automotive compounds and a buffer to get the same results.


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## raindog308 (Sep 1, 2011)

cabinetman said:


> Which shellac (in the can) did you use?
> Was it a wax free mix?
> What was the project, and why did you choose shellac?
> If it was an old can, it may not dry sufficiently.
> Coating wood that has been sanded to 400x may not achieve good penetration of the finish.


I used Zinsser Bullseye Amber Shellac. I bought the can only a week ago, so unless it was sitting at the hardware store a long time, it should be pretty fresh. The instructions on it said to sand as fine as possible before applying the first coat...?


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## johnnie52 (Feb 16, 2009)

Willem is right about not sanding the last coat of shellac. In fact you can almost avoid sanding between coats if you thin the mix enough. I prefer to thin shellac with denatured alcohol before use rather than apply it straight out of the can. The alcohol is the solvent used with shellac and the fresh coat actually melts into the previous coat. Using a 50/50 mix pretty much eliminates the need to sand between coats.


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## jleep (Oct 27, 2011)

If you want to sand your wood to a 1000 grit Thad fine but your product is only as fine as your last coat of finish....if you do sand it to the "finest it can be sanded to before your 1st coat of amber shellac" ten definitely thin the 1st coat 50/50 w/ denatured alcohol so there's a hope and prayer that it does penetrate far enough and gran on.....also I did say this before but mow that you've chosen shellac as a finish (which contains wax) forget about using something else later i.e you realize how bad shellac is for moisture or alcohol protection on a table top and you think poly might be a good idea....only because nothing will adhere to the wax but more wax. Sometimes you can use a no wax shellac like (seal coat) and then top with whatever.....just be perfectly even with your seal coat app

jleep


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## chemmy (Dec 13, 2011)

raindog308 said:


> I used Zinsser Bullseye Amber Shellac. I bought the can only a week ago, so unless it was sitting at the hardware store a long time, it should be pretty fresh. The instructions on it said to sand as fine as possible before applying the first coat...?


Zinsser amber shellac that contains wax has a shelf life [as do all shellacs]. You should be able to look at the bottom of the can to see when it was packaged to determine how long it has sit on the shelf at the store. If over a year, the esterification of the shellac has proceeded enough to warrant not using it because of slow drying. It is always best to purchase your own shellac flakes and dissolve in denatured alcohol or preferably SDA Den-alcohol formula # 1. Esterification is the term used to describe the debilitating affect that ethanol or methanol has upon the lac acids. It starts as soon as the shellac flakes are dissolved into the alcohol and continue until the shellac will no longer dry. 

Once you know for sure your shellac is either good or bad [which can also be found by applying a brushful or as little as a few drops, on a glass panel and testing to see if it dries overnight or takes longer] then you can either proceed if it is good or discard or take back if it's not. If bad, then get online and order some shellac flakes [blond wax free shellac flakes.] and solve these in den-alcohol, 1 lb. of shellac flakes to 1 gallon of alcohol or 1lb to 1/2 gal. will give you a 2 lb cut. With this you can be sure the shellac will dry as it should and sanding will not be a problem.

When your brushing is done, let dry overnight and then instead of sanding get a smooth cloth [preferably t shirt material and make that into a palm size ball and put just a little of the shellac on the ball and a few drops of baby mineral oil for lubrication and than pat the ball flat with your other hand til it is flat. Then glide it back and forth across the surface making sure to lift the pad from the surface at the end of each stroke and then back down on the surface without stopping or hesitation until you have applied enough shellac to see it glossy. If you do this several times or more you will end up with a smooth finish that is glossy and uniform [if done correctly] and if not you can continue to build it up and save much sanding time over brush applications. 
if your daring give it a go. 

If for what ever reason you still feel that it needs smoothing, then you can sand 600 grit w/d, and paste-wax the surface with 4/o steel wool available at any paint store. 

hope this helps.


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