# Another TS thread - Steel City 35990C vs. Craftsman 21833



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Hello everyone,

Yep, another table saw thread...but I've tried to be very specific vs. "I think I want a table saw and my budget is $100...help!"

A little about me: I am an amature woodworker...and that's being generous. I have built bookshelves, picture frames and tons of speaker boxes. I know how to use a TS, router, sanders and a planer. That's it on the experience.

While I'm buying my first table saw, as stated, I've got some experience with woodworking tools. I've used the Wood Shops on base for many years and have gotten used to "real tablesaws." Monster-size Jet/Delta/etc saws with 5-foot tables in all directions have spoiled me. Now that I have a house, I'm setting up my own shop. Buying used is not an option; I like return policies and warranties. Being that I don't personally know anyone selling a TS and can't vouch for how they care for their tools, used is out.

I first looked at contractor table saws. They rattle around too much. Portable contractor TS's are too flimsy and I cannot afford a $2K cabinet TS. So, I'm looking at mid-level saws (Hybrid saws?). 120v variety only. Wheels are a must as the garage is small.

My original budget was $500, but I quickly realized how much more you get for a little more. The Steel City at $877 shipped (Amazon) blows my budget big-time, but you get what you pay for. I don't want to buy another TS...ever, basically.

I've narrowed it down to the Steel City 35990C http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=12&tool=35990C

and the Craftsman 21833 http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...dNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1&isABTestAvl=true

I realize there is a substantial price difference b/t the two and the Steel City has lots of nicer features than the Craftsman (as it should for the price diff). BTW: I can get a 10% military discount on the Steel City...I think this might be a no-brainer, but I have to ask anyway.

For someone who will build speaker cabs and basic furniture, is the Steel City the substantially better table saw? $300 better? What matters most to be are dependability and accuracy. When the fence says 24 1/4" the cut should be 24 1/4".

I know there are a lot of TS threads and I tired to be very specific with this thread. Thanks for your assistance.

Mike


----------



## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

Welcome to Woodnet Mike!

Which saw is best is always subjective, and both saws are plenty capable of hobby work once setup properly and fitted with a good blade. You're likely to find fans and detractors of every saw we might mention here, but these are both viable contenders in the hybrid/contractor saw class. Which to choose ultimately depends on you, your budget, your preferences, etc. 

The Steel City 35990C features cabinet mounted trunnions vs table mounted, and solid cast iron wings vs stamped steel, which are both nice features IMO. Steel City also offers the 35990SS, which is the same saw with steel wings. If those are saws you're interested in, you'll be happy to know that Lowes has them for $727 and $619 respectively. A 10% coupon is pretty easy to come by, and some Lowes stores might accept a 20% Harbor Freight coupon (can't hurt to try!). FWIW, the Rikon 10-201 from Woodcraft ($749) looks to be essentially the same saw as the 35990C. 

The Cman 21833 is made by Dayton, and is essentially the same saw as the Ridgid R4512. They have table mounted trunnions, but use a one piece cast arbor carriage, which is a nice design. Both have steel wings and aluminum fences. Ridgid offers a "Lifetime Service Agreement" (LSA)...not that it's different than a lifetime warranty, but it's better than a stick the eye, so if you end up deciding on the 21833, I'd also give consideration to the R4512. 

Steel City/Orion also makes the Craftsman 22116 granite top saw. It also features large yoke style cabinet mounted trunnions, but goes a step farther than the 35990 with a one piece cast arbor carriage vs the connecting rods. It also features a more robust fence. Retail is closer to $1k, but I've seen drop into the low $700's on rare occasions. Again, a coupon or the right conversation with the right manager at the right time, could help get the saw into range. 

FWIW, I've never regretted buying more tool than I set out to get. You'll get what you pay for if you're patient and informed. Good luck and please keep us posted! :thumbsup:


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks for the detailed reply and the warm welcome, knotscott! :thumbsup:
Thank you for the heads-up on Lowe's! When I searched their website, I guess it only shows what my local store carries, not what's available online. They are cheaper than Home Depot for sure...and I like Lowe's better anyway. 

$1K is out of my price range. The Steel City variants are too, but I'm willing to bust the ceiling by a little to get a lot more tool; it's just better in the long run. I'm the kind of guy that uses a 3/4" ratchet to remove a 1/4" bolt. I like overkill..."bring enough gun" is a phrase that comes to mind. :2guns:

What's the diff b/t the 35990C and CS? The CS has a stainless steel table...as in "sheet metal" like a cheaper saw? I like a big, heavy table surface. Other than that, they seem identical...

Thanks!

ps
Are accessories like dado inserts readily available for the 35990-series? That's important to me.


----------



## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

mikeintexas said:


> ...
> What's the diff b/t the 35990C and CS? The CS has a stainless steel table...as in "sheet metal" like a cheaper saw? I like a big, heavy table surface. Other than that, they seem identical...
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


Lowes shows a 35990"SS", which I'd guess means stamped steel....stainless would be really expensive and not as effective as the cast iron. Steel City's website shows a 35990"CS", that shows a pic that looks like it has steel wings. Could be a typo on someone's website. 

Not sure about accessories. The older saws made by Steel City would accept the Delta Unisaw inserts, which they did intentionally. Their customer service might be able to answer. Not hard to make your own inserts if you've got a router or a sander.

If the CMan 22116 were to go on sale closer to $750, it's essentially the same saw as the Steel City 35925 (made by them too) on their website, but has an upgraded fence...


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks again, knotscott. I think with the 10% discount, the 35990C is a no-brainer. It's a lot of saw for the money. I'm on the phone w/Lowe's now to see if I can get the discount on a phone order.

Took awhile on the phone, but done! They gave me the 10% discount which pays for the state sales tax plus a little bit. 
$770 w/tax delivered to my local Lowe's. :yes: I feel it's a lot of saw for the money. Took my chance on getting it without verifying that accessories are available, but Steel City isn't exactly an "off-brand" so I'm sure there's something around that will fit; I emailed Steel City and asked them about it. 

I hope this saw lasts a long-long time; I care for my tools well so it should. I intend on keeping it covered when not in use.


----------



## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

Did you check out Steel City's fall sales flyer, the 35990CS is on sale for $600.00.

Either Granite or Cast Iron for stability, better than anything lighter.

Call Steel City see what is the cheapest way to get the saw too you.

I have two Craftsman in my garage, the 22124 I just bought, and the 22114. I highly recommend them, but the model you gave above is so much lighter than the 22114 by almost 100 lbs, plus that fence is not going to perform like what you want, so the steel city is the way to go based on the models you gave.

jm2c


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi yocalif. Thanks for the heads-up on the Steel City sale. When I read your reply I was cursing myself for a second there, for being so stupid as to not check for a sale flyer...didn't even cross my mind. I was all ready to call Lowe's and beg. But I checked the flyer first.

Luckily for me, the one on sale for $600 is the sheet-metal table model. The cast iron table, which is what I got, is $650. Adding in tax would bring it to $704. Delivery would be $90, minimum, which would total more than the $770 I paid at Lowe's. Granted; I have to go pick it up, but my Lowe's is 10 minutes from me and they'll drop it in the bed of the truck with the forklift and all I'll have to do (Yeah, "all I have to do"...it's 330 pounds!) will be to get it out of the truck and into the garage. The planets aligned for me on this one, apparently. 

In looking up tons of reviews on Craftsman, Rigid and Porter Cable TS's, I came across quite a few reviews praising the 22114; it really looks great. And of course Sears stopped selling it a year ago and it seems to have disappeared from their outlets about 6 months ago. My luck. And as I mentioned, I won't buy used tools unless I can either verify their history (I know the seller) or I can check it's full functionality first. In either case, it's still a crapshoot due to no warranty.

Assuming my Steel City TS didn't get too banged around during it's shipment from mother China and all it's pieces are in the box, I'm sure I will be very happy with it. 

Most of the table saws I've used in the past 15 years in the woodshop on base are $4K+ monster production type machines; so I got spoiled on the good stuff very quickly. While going through the motions of all the sub-$500 "portable contractor saws" I was pretty disappointed. So I looked at the $500 "shop models" both fixed and on wheels. Again, sort of disappointed. Most models had most of what I was looking for but were missing vital things. Like the Craftsman $500 saw that has a 5/8" miter gauge slot and a dust bag vs. a port and a half-cast iron/half sheet metal table. 

It just seemed like stepping up just a couple of hundred dollars netted you a much more robust saw. Thanks again for the reply.


----------



## yocalif (Nov 11, 2010)

yo mikeintexas, you should be very happy with your new Steel City TS from Lowes. 

I agree totally about being willing to pay a couple of $$$hundred extra gets you into a higher level of TS.

I am on a very limited budget so I have to buy used to make the money stretch. Last year I bought my first TS a Craftsman 22114 for $280, and was thrilled to get that deal. However after I got it home and studied the manual I found it was missing some accessory parts, nothing that effected normal operation, and I enjoyed using it very much. However the fence was an annoyance because every time I moved it I had to carefully measure front/back of blade distance to fence. So last week I found a Craftsman 22124 $400 being sold by original owner only used for two projects, with all the accessory parts, manual, plus new freud/diablo blades (40",50",60") the 50/60 still unopened in their package, plus a never used dado blade set. AND the big surprise was he received an extra set of the parts that I was missing on my 22114. Both saws I tested before buying, both were original owner, both had very little use.

While both are considered budget saws, their quality (both made by Orion/Steel City), and performance by hundreds of reviewers and major woodworking publications has earned respect for these models of Craftsman. My point is buying used has allowed me to get two good saws at half their new price, thus allow me to purchase other equip for my garage shop. Don't be afraid of buying used, I buy only stuff that looks new, try to find equip hardly used that operates properly, and equip still being sold by retailers in case I ever need parts. 

Again enjoy your new TS, build something nice with it.


----------



## Jim Moe (Sep 18, 2011)

*Steel City 35990G*

If you look at my pics you will see that I have a Steel City 35990G. It is a great saw and has performed flawlessly for over a year now. If you notice I have an Incra fence system on it. That is because the fence that comes with it is very poor and the back end will never align with the front. Also if you buy the Granite be ready to realign the tables as they do not come close from the factory. Mine came with a chunk of Granite rolling around in the shipping box. It was a small piece from around the magnet that holds the insert in. I called Steel City and they immediatly mailed out a new center section of granite. With the new fence on it I am totally satisfyed.


----------



## mikeintexas (Oct 25, 2011)

Though I really went overboard on the TS, I'm on a budget as well...which I completely blew out of the water. :huh: I promised myself that $500 was the absolute ceiling. But I set the budget before I learned what a decent table saw really costs. I need a bandsaw and a either a spindle sander or a stationary belt sander (haven't decided which one yet) and will either be buying from Harbor Freight or lower-model Craftsman models. Carefully used models are a slight possibility, assuming I can verify that everything works before buying. I already own a bench press, router (though no router table...uh oh...my wallet is itching...) and assorted hand held power and air tools and a big compressor. So I'm halfway there already.

The table saw is what you cut your wood on. It's the basis of the woodshop, IMO. "If the foundation of the house is off, the house will be off" is my line of thinking in overspending on the TS. At least that's how I plan on selling it to the wife. :boxing:

AFA the table/fence goes, I'll check it out. We're all mechanically-inclined around here. I'm good at reading manuals and tweaking settings. After assembly I will do a complete setup from top to bottom. I'm not time-constrained, so I can take my time ensuring it's right. The only accessories I want to buy right away are a dado plate and blade. Things like a better fence, we'll have to see down the line. Though I'm sure the stock fence on the 35900 is better than the fence on any $400 contractor portable saw. I love the 30" cut on the 35990 too! I can't wait to start making sawdust! 

But you know how it goes; you buy tools...now you have no money for wood. Thanks for the thougtful replies. Been a real nice welcome to the WWT forums.:yes:


----------



## goethert (Jun 13, 2012)

The current price is $924+tax, I am too late to the party.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_230123-2646...7_?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=


----------



## knotscott (Nov 8, 2007)

goethert said:


> The current price is $924+tax, I am too late to the party.
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_230123-2646...7_?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=


Check Steel City's 2012 Summer Flyer...the 35990C is on sale for $750.


----------



## Yeorwned (Jan 9, 2010)

I don't know what your stance is on used saws, but look for a Ridgid R4511. It's a Steel City saw that Home Depot carried for a couple of years then fire sold for $250 so you can get a great deal on them for people that might be reselling. I bought mine new for $200 with a coupon but I've seen plenty on Craiglist for not much more.

It's quite literally the same Steel City saw as their hybrid model, with a difference fence.


----------



## joesbucketorust (Dec 13, 2011)

Yeorwned said:


> I don't know what your stance is on used saws,


He said it in his initial post - he's anti-used, gotta have it new, need the bling. Which is a shame because a good cabinet saw isn't the same as a '71 pinto. There are no tires to kick and it doesn't matter how much that little old lady took it drag racing on Sundays because a good tablesaw is a good tablesaw 10, 20, 30 years down the road. As for the other, well you can put on pinstripes and some fuzzy dice, but it's still a 71 pinto.


----------



## goethert (Jun 13, 2012)

.the 35990C is on sale for $750, plus tax and shipping, it will be in the same range of Lowes' $920.
I wonder if Lowes will have sale on Steel City 35990C


----------



## Yeorwned (Jan 9, 2010)

joesbucketorust said:


> He said it in his initial post - he's anti-used, gotta have it new, need the bling. Which is a shame because a good cabinet saw isn't the same as a '71 pinto. There are no tires to kick and it doesn't matter how much that little old lady took it drag racing on Sundays because a good tablesaw is a good tablesaw 10, 20, 30 years down the road. As for the other, well you can put on pinstripes and some fuzzy dice, but it's still a 71 pinto.


My apologies all. He even had it underlined and I still missed it. :wacko:


----------



## Bee51 (May 8, 2013)

*Granite vs. cast*

I see the Steel City saw has an option for all cast, cast with granite wings, or all granite. I know the granite wont rust which is a big plus but am looking for suggestions on *which is best: Granite or Cast?
*
I see the model 35926 is on sale in the spring 2013 flyer for $799 and the 35990G (Granite) for $599, the 35990C (Cast) is $699


----------

