# Phenolics



## Tricktech (Feb 2, 2012)

Have built my own router table using mdf and melamine. And although I'm not disappointed with the results, I wanted to redo the top out of phenolic.

Here's the question... What to look for when trying to purchase the phenolic material. I have found a few suppliers of phenolics, but in turn discovered that the term "phenolic" covers a lot of ground. Not being a chemist, I'm pretty much lost when trying to determine a viable choice of material.

Which ones do the likes of Jessem, bench Dog, Kreg, or Woodpeckers use? They don't share that little detail.

Which ones stay true, or would be true to begin with?

Since there are so many choices, at a wide variety of price points, none of them cheap, does anyone know enough to point me in the right direction? The last thing I want to do is spend the extra cash to "experiment".

TIA


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Tricktech said:


> Have built my own router table using mdf and melamine. And although I'm not disappointed with the results, I wanted to redo the top out of phenolic.
> 
> Here's the question... What to look for when trying to purchase the phenolic material. I have found a few suppliers of phenolics, but in turn discovered that the term "phenolic" covers a lot of ground. Not being a chemist, I'm pretty much lost when trying to determine a viable choice of material.
> 
> ...


Hi - I've got a Woodpecker table top and their claim was that it was MDF.... however, I had to drill a 2" hole in it for my dust collection setup and that is gol darndest MDF I've ever seen... tough. Seems like it's impregnated with phenolic somehow but it didn't stink like phenolic does. Anyway, whatever that stuff is, it's still covered with a plastic of some kind, not melamine.

At any rate, Phenolic is a pretty expensive proposition for those of us buying less than a truckload at a time
http://www.mcmaster.com/#phenolic-sheets/=g6mcq6

Might be cheaper out just buying the top than trying to make your own out of the stuff. Good luck to ya whatever you decide to do:smile:


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## Hammer1 (Aug 1, 2010)

Rockler usually carries phenolic sheets in 3/4" and 1/2". I think it's an in store item only, I've seen 24"x24" around $25. Typically 14 ply phenolic impregnated birch with a plastic face. I use melamine or PL covered ply for my jigs. There will always be some odd processes on a sled or router table when I have to screw or bolt an accessory or jig, so my router table tops and sleds are, eventually, disposable. I don't get too sentimental or spend much on them.


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## Tricktech (Feb 2, 2012)

jschaben said:


> Hi - I've got a Woodpecker table top and their claim was that it was MDF.... however, I had to drill a 2" hole in it for my dust collection setup and that is gol darndest MDF I've ever seen... tough. Seems like it's impregnated with phenolic somehow but it didn't stink like phenolic does. Anyway, whatever that stuff is, it's still covered with a plastic of some kind, not melamine.
> 
> At any rate, Phenolic is a pretty expensive proposition for those of us buying less than a truckload at a time
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#phenolic-sheets/=g6mcq6
> ...


Yeah, lol, I said the same thing last time I was looking at phenolics. I'm a fan of the kreg t-tracks and miter slots and once they are cut into a 3/4" anything, there isn't much material left, so.... My biggest motivation in building my own phenolic top is doing it out of 1" material. If I could buy a pre-made that thick, I would already have bought it. Now, I'm not saying 3/4 isn't viable... But if I had a choice... Making my own is appealing. Besides, like so many others here,I take pride in being surrounded by my own builds throughout my shop.


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Tricktech said:


> Yeah, lol, I said the same thing last time I was looking at phenolics. I'm a fan of the kreg t-tracks and miter slots and once they are cut into a 3/4" anything, there isn't much material left, so.... My biggest motivation in building my own phenolic top is doing it out of 1" material. If I could buy a pre-made that thick, I would already have bought it. Now, I'm not saying 3/4 isn't viable... But if I had a choice... Making my own is appealing. Besides, like so many others here,I take pride in being surrounded by my own builds throughout my shop.


Thing is, if you go to the website in my link and plug in 1" thick, 24" wide and 36" long which would be a fair size for a router table, you come up with $200 to $1600 depending on the type of phenolic you want...


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

High pressure laminate (HPL), like Formica, makes for good router table tops, and can be laminated to MDF, plywood, most any substrate. It's inexpensive comparatively. It's commonly available in two thicknesses...1/32" for vertical use, and 1/16" for horizontal use, like tops.










 







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## Tricktech (Feb 2, 2012)

jschaben said:


> Thing is, if you go to the website in my link and plug in 1" thick, 24" wide and 36" long which would be a fair size for a router table, you come up with $200 to $1600 depending on the type of phenolic you want...


Exactly my point, I'm looking for someone who might be able to shed some light on the differences between the two ends of that spectrum. I know I have seen 1" material 24x48 for about $184, but that's UHMW and I just don't know enough about it to know if it's an appropriate choice?

http://www.interstateplastics.com/B...dim2=24&dim3=48&thickness=1.000&qty=1&x=0&y=0


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## JohnK007 (Nov 14, 2009)

Weird. I changed the length on your calculator to 32 inches instead of 48 and the price jumped up to $198! So, a shorter piece ( 768 sq inches) is more money than a larger piece (1152 sq. inches) :huh:?



EDIT: Nevermind. Just went back and it said at the bottom of the page: " Benefit From Optimal Cut Size:" .


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## jschaben (Apr 1, 2010)

Tricktech said:


> Exactly my point, I'm looking for someone who might be able to shed some light on the differences between the two ends of that spectrum. I know I have seen 1" material 24x48 for about $184, but that's UHMW and I just don't know enough about it to know if it's an appropriate choice?
> 
> http://www.interstateplastics.com/B...dim2=24&dim3=48&thickness=1.000&qty=1&x=0&y=0


 
UHMW is fantastic stuff for jigs, drawer runners and the like but is a bit soft for a router table top. It would be slick though and nothing sticks to it. :smile:


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## Tricktech (Feb 2, 2012)

Starting to look like I'll just give up and buy the table I would have patterned mine after anyway...

http://www.woodpeck.com/rt2432phen.html

That is when I replace what I made last fall.


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## cabinetman (Jul 5, 2007)

That looks like Melamine, or laminate covered particleboard.










 







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## Cliff (Feb 5, 2012)

Without discussing the thermoset polymer that is the "glue" of a phenolic product there are different kinds of phenolic distinguished by the different fabrics used to construct them
The various fabrics include fiberglass, linen, cotton, paper, indiscriminate rags and some phenolic products are loaded with flour to bulk them up or eliminate the laminated look. 

Linen based phenolic is desirable ( and spendy) for certain applications such as cryogenic hardware involving temperatures especially in the 4 to 5 Kelvin range because if its very low thermodynamic properties.

But for a router table you don't have such considerations so the only thing I'd concern myself with are whether the material is build up as a lamination with sheets of fabric or was made using a chopper gun where scraps of fabric were shredded and packed together. I would eschew those that are bulked with flour those with paper. 

I think I'd prefer the laminated sheet type made from any kind of sheet fabric. 

After that you might want to look at the polymer but that's out of my depth.
There are a slew of polymer formulations 

Gooogle it 
types of phenolic sheet


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## BradB (Jun 9, 2010)

Hooked on Phenolics worked for me:laughing:


Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Tricktech (Feb 2, 2012)

cabinetman said:


> That looks like Melamine, or laminate covered particleboard.
> 
> .


Yes, thats the one I built and is in fact a 1.125" melamine bench top. The barn doors are Formica laminated mdf.

Check the link for the phenolic.

The reason I'm not satisfied with what I have now is the melamine top isn't even a true mdf, it's ldf and it's too soft. I have had issues since day one getting my Woodpecker insert leveled and flush and keeping it there.


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