# What is the difference between a dust extractor and a shop vac?



## chirpfarm (Jan 30, 2012)

What is the difference between a dust extractor such as this Fein (http://www.cpofein.com/fein-9-20-25...html?start=5&cgid=fein-dust-extractor-vacuums) and a shop vac? I currently use a shop vac for dust collection and don't really have room to add a dust cyclone system in front of it in order to keep from clogging the filter all the time. Will something like the Fein need the filter changed less often than the shop vac? Are there any other advantages?

TIA.


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## Dave Paine (May 30, 2012)

You may want to search for earlier posts where this has been discussed, like this one.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/another-newb-question-45263/


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## chirpfarm (Jan 30, 2012)

Dave Paine said:


> You may want to search for earlier posts where this has been discussed, like this one.
> 
> http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/another-newb-question-45263/


 
I did do a search, but didn't really find anything that broke down the mechanical differences between the two other than to say that the extractor has 2 motors and is quieter. Perhaps I just didn't search for the right keywords.

One poster in the thread you linked mentions the "never-ending filter" on the Fein. What do they mean by this? I'm trying to figure out if the extractor has a similar filter system to a shop vac and so will plug will need cleaning just as often, or if it operates fundamentally differently?

Also, I noticed I put this in the tools forum; I meant to have it in the DC forum, sorry.


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## Fred Hargis (Apr 28, 2012)

About $300. Generally, the machines called "extractors" are the higher end machines, and one really good feature is they are much more quiet. I have 3 of the Fein models and I'm pretty sure they don't have 2 motors. But they do have 2 airstreams, the one that cools the motor is separate from what goes through the canister. That said, on mine I use Gore Cleanstream filters (the ones that fit the Craftsman red model) and Shop Vac brand bags when i need them (drywall bags. @ of mine are the older models and the bags work fine. One the newer one, the canister is a little different, on that one I haven't tried the Shop Vac bags. So, for your question, Fein told me over the phone some time ago they recommend using bags with their filters, to protect it from damage. If you do that the filter would indeed be extremely long lived. Or you could leave that silly felt filter in place, and also use the cartridge...but you'd wind up cleaning the felt one. But without the bags it will need to be cleaned much like any other shop vac. One of the advantages of the Gore filter is that it seems to be much more durable than the stock Fein filter (and a little cheaper). On the other hand, it is a little larger...so you lose some canister space.


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## WillemJM (Aug 18, 2011)

It's more marketing language than anything else. I believe they are in the same category, the Fein is just higher end.

My understanding of a dust extractor is high volume low pressure, from 2hp upwards, while those are low volume high pressure. The former is designed to be connected to a collection system, while the latter is closer to a vacuum cleaner.


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## Loganville Tiger (Dec 23, 2012)

From an engineering standpoint - _Nothing_! High velocity air (hose) picks up the particulate (chips/dust) and then enters a large container (vac tub) reducing the velocity allowing the larger particulate to fall out. The air then is filtered removing the finer particulate (sawdust - 30 microns or so) and put back into the space. 

A stand-a-lone dedicated duct collection system follows these same principles. But has many inherent benefits not associated with a vac:



Higher static pressure allowing for you to have an central ducting system for dedicated tool hook-up (use blast gates for shut-off). If you really want to get _froggy_, you can add floor sweeps and hood extractors.


Quieter operation - darn shop vacs are _noisy_ due to their high RPM's.


Can be located remotely outside. Not an option for me, but talk about quite!! But have to duct the filtered discharge air back into your space.


Higher end dust collection systems (I haven't researched what is on the market for woodworkers) have variable frequency drive motors controlled by pressure sensors that vary the capacity of the collector as more ports are opened and machines are in use.
True dust collectors are better by design in that they offer a larger cyclone chamber (the tub for your shop vac) to let more of the finer particles drop out. 

I have designed a couple of the things for large woodworking operations over the my career - they seemed to work and I never got _The Call_. The most memorable one for the the Marine Logistic Center in Albany, Georgia - early 90's right after the first Gulf War. It is said that everything the Marines use east of the Mississippi move through this base. They had the latest in CNC equipment I had ever seen at that time - table saws, planers, sanders all computer controlled. Designed and installed a dust system out of _stainless steel_ blowpipe - floor sweeps (get a 16 penny nail within 3" of it and you could hear it banging its way to the collector), multiple dust ports, VFD's on the fans (god expensive then), etc, etc. When complete, the Colonel in charge came to inspect. After white gloving it he was satisfied. I ask him what the machines would be used to build? *CRATES* was his answer.......


LT

ps - I am the cobbler's child, I use a _shop vac_......


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

chirpfarm said:


> What is the difference between a dust extractor such as this Fein (http://www.cpofein.com/fein-9-20-25-9-gallon-turbo-ii-wet-dry-dust-extractor/fenn9-20-25,default,pd.html?start=5&cgid=fein-dust-extractor-vacuums) and a shop vac? I currently use a shop vac for dust collection and don't really have room to add a dust cyclone system in front of it in order to keep from clogging the filter all the time. Will something like the Fein need the filter changed less often than the shop vac? Are there any other advantages?
> 
> TIA.


The Fein is just a high end shop vac with better filters, and a cooling stream for the motor that is separate from the vacuum air stream. 

You can easily upgrade your existing shop vac by: 1.) adding a cleanstream hepa filter; 2.) use a drywall bag as a prefilter; 3.) a "dust deputy" mini cyclone in front of the whole thing. 

The only thing that adds to the footprint is the cyclone, and it mounts to a five-gallon bucket, so that isn't a very big footprint. I'd recommend building a small cart that holds both the shop vac and the cyclone, if you want it mobile.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

> You can easily upgrade your existing shop vac by: 1.) adding a cleanstream hepa filter; 2.) use a drywall bag as a prefilter; 3.) a "dust deputy" mini cyclone in front of the whole thing.
> 
> The only thing that adds to the footprint is the cyclone, and it mounts to a five-gallon bucket, so that isn't a very big footprint. I'd recommend building a small cart that holds both the shop vac and the cyclone, if you want it mobile.


I have a shop vac with a dust deputy plumbed upstream of it. It works great. Only downside is having to empty the 5 gal bucket often if you are using a jointer or planer. But then again you won't have anything in the bag in your shop vac.

Check out You Tube video for Dust deputy.


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## chirpfarm (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks guys. I was hoping that there was something fundamentally different about them such as a built in cyclone separator or something to make it worthwhile to buy one. Thanks for the info.


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Apr 28, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> I have a shop vac with a dust deputy plumbed upstream of it. It works great. Only downside is having to empty the 5 gal bucket often if you are using a jointer or planer. But then again you won't have anything in the bag in your shop vac.
> [/URL]


I have a 30-gallon drum mounted under my dust deputy. It collects enough saw dust that it is hard to lift when it gets full.


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## MT Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> I have a 30-gallon drum mounted under my dust deputy. It collects enough saw dust that it is hard to lift when it gets full.


I recently upgraded to the HF 2 hp model dust collector. I bought a 30 gallon drum and currently using it as the chip collector. I have parts ordered to make the Thien separator.

But I am still using the shop vac/dust deputy for smaller jobs like the band saw, router fence, etc.


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## rrbrown (Feb 15, 2009)

WillemJM said:


> It's more marketing language than anything else. I believe they are in the same category, the Fein is just higher end.
> 
> My understanding of a dust extractor is high volume low pressure, from 2hp upwards, while those are low volume high pressure. The former is designed to be connected to a collection system, while the latter is closer to a vacuum cleaner.


I think your confusing the name dust extractor with Dust Collector. As stated the dust extractor is actually just another name for a high end Shop Vac.



Loganville Tiger said:


> From an engineering standpoint - _Nothing_! High velocity air (hose) picks up the particulate (chips/dust) and then enters a large container (vac tub) reducing the velocity allowing the larger particulate to fall out. The air then is filtered removing the finer particulate (sawdust - 30 microns or so) and put back into the space.
> 
> A stand-a-lone dedicated duct collection system follows these same principles. But has many inherent benefits not associated with a vac:
> 
> ...


The stand alone Dust Collector uses high volume low velocity. The Shop Vac/ Dust Extractor uses low volume with high velocity.


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