# Knotty Pine attic - bleach, lighten…



## salamandaark5 (Sep 7, 2021)

We just bought a house with a knotty pine attic. Must be around 30-50 years old-not sure if it’s original to the house or was installed later. House is ‘62.
Anyway-I’m not thrilled about the high gloss sheen and yellowing of the knotty pine. I’d like to make it something more satin, sandy/beige look, similar to the Nordic seal that we have on our red oak floors. 

so, any suggestions?

Here’s what I was thinking
1)strip the sealant with citristrip 
2)sand 
3)Daly’s a/b bleach 
4)water based minwax polycrylic 

ps-we’re novices at home ownership and woodwork.


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## WeebyWoodWorker (Jun 11, 2017)

Okay just my opinion but that's gorgeous and I would hate to ever screw with it. 

-T


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## _Ogre (Feb 1, 2013)

knotty pine paneling is a love it or hate it thing. beautiful in my eyes, obviously not in yours.
no amount of stripping and sanding will get everything out of the joints or nooks and crannies
if you don't like it, remove it and sheetrock the rooms


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

It may have been done with varnish and any oil based finish yellows with age however I think most of the yellowing is the wood itself aging. 

That would be a huge project to refinish that much wood. Citristrip is a pretty crummy remover which would add to the work load. If the shelves are removable I think I would try different removers on them first before committing to refinishing the walls. Removers are difficult to find today that work right. The government banned a chemical contained in removers that make them effective. I haven't tried it but have heard good things about Sunnyside 2 minute remover. 

Anyway most of the color is the wood which would require a lot of sanding to bring it back to it's original color. Most people in your situation would just paint the wood if they didn't like the color.


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## GeorgeC (Jul 30, 2008)

If that is an attic, I would like to see what the living quarters look like.

George


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## DrRobert (Apr 27, 2015)

Sand and apply a matte or satin water base like Polyacrylic.

Live with the color, or just paint it.

Seems like a lot of work for an auxiliary room, something you could live with?


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## Jay_L (Oct 16, 2020)

After chemically stripping, the lye in the 2 part wood bleach will also dissolve and remove
any residual oil or shellac based clear finishes left in the nooks, crannies, and end grain joints if you work the bleach into the wood with a synthetic 3-M maroon or green pad. Multiple bleach applications might be necessary. Lye was and still is a commonly used stripper.

Just be certain to neutralize with distilled white vinegar followed by rinsing the residual salts with distilled water after neutralizing.

edit: you can also wet sand the bleach into the wood if you encounter any areas with residual clear finish. Those areas might not initially bleach out as well as the rest, but a second application of bleach should blend in the darker areas where wet sanded..


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## salamandaark5 (Sep 7, 2021)

Steve Neul said:


> It may have been done with varnish and any oil based finish yellows with age however I think most of the yellowing is the wood itself aging.
> 
> That would be a huge project to refinish that much wood. Citristrip is a pretty crummy remover which would add to the work load. If the shelves are removable I think I would try different removers on them first before committing to refinishing the walls. Removers are difficult to find today that work right. The government banned a chemical contained in removers that make them effective. I haven't tried it but have heard good things about Sunnyside 2 minute remover.
> 
> Anyway most of the color is the wood which would require a lot of sanding to bring it back to it's original color. Most people in your situation would just paint the wood if they didn't like the color.


I’ll take your advice and try out a drawer before going further. What do you think about painting them-would you worry about expanding and contracting and what kind of paint? I’ll try a drawer with bleaching and the other with painting


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## Steve Neul (Sep 2, 2011)

salamandaark5 said:


> I’ll take your advice and try out a drawer before going further. What do you think about painting them-would you worry about expanding and contracting and what kind of paint? I’ll try a drawer with bleaching and the other with painting


Painting is done very often on pine. There wouldn't be any more wood movement being painted or varnished however it may show more with paint. Really the worst would be to have to touch up the paint now and then., 

Since you can't be sure what kind of varnish in on the paneling I would go with an oil based enamel. I would recommend lightly sanding all of it with 180 or finer grit paper. Then wipe it down with a wax and grease remover. Someone may have cleaned the paneling with pledge or equivalent and the polish would have an adverse reaction with the paint. Even hand oils can affect the adhesion of the new paint. .


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## salamandaark5 (Sep 7, 2021)

Jay_L said:


> After chemically stripping, the lye in the 2 part wood bleach will also dissolve and remove
> any residual oil or shellac based clear finishes left in the nooks, crannies, and end grain joints if you work the bleach into the wood with a synthetic 3-M maroon or green pad. Multiple bleach applications might be necessary. Lye was and still is a commonly used stripper.
> 
> Just be certain to neutralize with distilled white vinegar followed by rinsing the residual salts with distilled water after neutralizing.
> ...


am i chemically stripping AND using lye? Or using the lye as the stripping agent ? What happens if you don’t neutralize after lye? Would you recommend something like Woca for the lye? Or something else ?


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## salamandaark5 (Sep 7, 2021)

I did an initial test with the wood and I’m just not to excited about giving it all over to paint. I did a little section on the left wiping the paint off after one coat, and I much prefer setting the wood grain. I’ll keep Experimenting to see how to get closer to what I’d like for the space. White varnish or lye perhaps.


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## Jay_L (Oct 16, 2020)

salamandaark5 said:


> am i chemically stripping AND using lye? Or using the lye as the stripping agent ? What happens if you don’t neutralize after lye? Would you recommend something like Woca for the lye? Or something else ?


Two part wood bleach.. 1 part hydrogen peroxide: 1 part sodium hydroxide (lye)

White oak pictured below was stripped w/hand scrapers and sanders (no chemicals) then bleached 2x’s and neutralized with 2.5% white vinegar and then rinsed with distilled water. The lye in the bleach will dissolve and/or soften any residual oil based clear finishes & shellac but won’t serve as a stripper. It can however remove residual finish by working it into the wood with a synthetic abrasive pad or sandpaper.




















If not neutralized, the residual lye salts will go back into solution on humid days and will turn the wood a yellow/greenish color, and cause the wood to become damp. The residual lye salts can also irritate your hands if you touch the wood and can also break down clear coats. 

Woca white lye is a bit different being it’s less caustic with white mineral pigments and can only go on bare wood yet doesn’t have all that great of an effect. I’ll sometimes use the Woca white lye over wood lightened with two part wood bleach in order to make it really white.


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## Jay_L (Oct 16, 2020)

salamandaark5 said:


> I did an initial test with the wood and I’m just not to excited about giving it all over to paint. I did a little section on the left wiping the paint off after one coat, and I much prefer setting the wood grain. I’ll keep Experimenting to see how to get closer to what I’d like for the space. White varnish or lye perhaps.
> View attachment 431664


I’m actually going to be undertaking a similar project on a 1740 built home I purchased a couple of weeks ago, beginning next week.

My plan is to sand off any finish and oxidation on the pine, lighten with a 2 part hydrogen peroxide bleach, and finish it off with clear paste wax to resemble a bleached butternut project I did a few years ago.




















The look I’m hoping to achieve is below:


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## salamandaark5 (Sep 7, 2021)

Jay_L said:


> Two part wood bleach.. 1 part hydrogen peroxide: 1 part sodium hydroxide (lye)
> 
> White oak pictured below was stripped w/hand scrapers and sanders (no chemicals) then bleached 2x’s and neutralized with 2.5% white vinegar and then rinsed with distilled water. The lye in the bleach will dissolve and/or soften any residual oil based clear finishes & shellac but won’t serve as a stripper. It can however remove residual finish by working it into the wood with a synthetic abrasive pad or sandpaper.
> 
> ...


Do you seal the wood with a varnish after distilled water? And, for the lye/peroxide, do you mix those straight or use a product?


Jay_L said:


> I’m actually going to be undertaking a similar project on a 1740 built home I purchased a couple of weeks ago, beginning next week.
> 
> My plan is to sand off any finish and oxidation on the pine, lighten with a 2 part hydrogen peroxide bleach, and finish it off with clear paste wax to resemble a bleached butternut project I did a few years ago.
> 
> ...


 Yes that is exactly the look I’m going for too ! Do you plan on using an orbital sander or is there something more efficient for covering such a large space ? You must be on the East coast with a house that age.


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## Jay_L (Oct 16, 2020)

salamandaark5 said:


> Do you seal the wood with a varnish after distilled water? And, for the lye/peroxide, do you mix those straight or use a product?
> 
> Yes that is exactly the look I’m going for too ! Do you plan on using an orbital sander or is there something more efficient for covering such a large space ? You must be on the East coast with a house that age.


East Coast, yes.

For a project of your nature, I prefer to mechanically remove the existing finish w/sanders vs chemicals. 

For sanding I use a pretty aggressive dual function sander (1st pic) in rotary mode for heavy removal starting with # 80 grit, followed by random orbit mode w/#100 grit, then I use orbital finish sanders (pic 2 & 3) w/#120, and finally #150. For the v-grooves I use wood sanding blocks with a soft hook and loop backing adhered to the blocks to accept hook and loop sandpaper. For tight inside corners I use sharp wood chisels followed by PSA sandpaper adhered to a steel spatula. 


























Below is an example of paint removal on ~ 60 sq ft of wood paneling which took ~ 45 minutes using the above sanders, sanding everything 4xs with 4 different grits. It goes pretty quickly.










For my particular application I’m not using varnish but am denibbing the bleached wood with sandpaper, sanding it up to #400 then just applying paste wax. You can however use Zinsser Seal Coat to seal which will impart a slight amber color, and then apply a couple of coats of water based poly. You would need to denib the wood after final rinsing when it’s dry using #280 sandpaper being careful not to sand through the bleached layer.

You’re best bet for a two part bleach is probably Daly’s and you mix the first application at a 1:1 ratio. For the 2nd application you might want to mix it at a 3:1 ratio of hydrogen peroxide:sodium hydroxide.


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## Plunk25 (22 d ago)

salamandaark5 said:


> We just bought a house with a knotty pine attic. Must be around 30-50 years old-not sure if it’s original to the house or was installed later. House is ‘62. Anyway-I’m not thrilled about the high gloss sheen and yellowing of the knotty pine. I’d like to make it something more satin, sandy/beige look, similar to the Nordic seal that we have on our red oak floors. so, any suggestions? Here’s what I was thinking 1)strip the sealant with citristrip 2)sand 3)Daly’s a/b bleach 4)water based minwax polycrylic ps-we’re novices at home ownership and woodwork.
> View attachment 430597
> View attachment 430597
> View attachment 430598
> View attachment 430598


 I live in Seattle and own the same model home. What did you end up doing and how has it panned out?


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